WebGUI irc logs from: 2009-04.log

@steveo_aa
--- Log opened Wed Apr 01 00:00:58 2009
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2: You've just been nominated to start the javascript debugging page on the wiki	00:18
+perlmonkey2	hah	00:19
+perlmonkey2	it would be, in totality, use firebug's stepper and put in a ton of trace statements for the console.	00:20
daviddelikat	good advice	00:22
CIA-38	WebGUI: brian * r10097 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.6.18 release	00:25
SDuensin	perlmonkey2 - Give this one a try, too: http://www.billyreisinger.com/jash/download.html	00:26
+perlmonkey2	ah, cool, thanks SDuensin	00:30
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+perlmonkey2	very sweet	00:30
elnino	for those of you who have old servers laying around, may this be of encouragement to you (or a place to donate your machines) I thought this was cool. http://www.extremelinux.info/stonesoup/	00:36
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, you are eloquent and tactful.	00:57
@Haarg	thanks	00:58
+perlDreamer	When rizen becomes president, you'd better be Secretary of State	00:59
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@Haarg	heh	01:01
+perlmonkey2	patspam: congrats on TPBW	01:03
+patspam	perlmonkey2: thanks man	01:04
+patspam	kinda strange seeing your own face on the site every time you load it up	01:04
+perlmonkey2	heh	01:05
+patspam	http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2009/03/31/breaking-internet-explorer-81-eagle-eyes-leaked/	01:08
CIA-38	WebGUI: translation * r10098 /translations/German/German/Asset_Event.pm: Update from translation server	01:09
CIA-38	WebGUI: translation * r10099 /translations/German/German/Asset_EventManagementSystem.pm: Update from translation server	01:09
CIA-38	WebGUI: graham * r10100 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed #10056: YUI javascripts included while adminOff (BNC)	01:09
+perlDreamer	man, seems like every time I talk about i18n in IRC that we get a bunch of commits	01:10
+perlDreamer	I'll have to do that more often :)	01:10
+perlDreamer	patspam, the Spanish translation is about to overtake Arabic	01:10
+perlDreamer	which will make the top 3 Dutch, German, and Spanish	01:10
+patspam	we need a leaders board	01:10
+perlDreamer	it would be nice to have a DataTable in there, so it can be sorted	01:11
+perlDreamer	and then some graphing to track progress over time	01:11
+perlmonkey2	we need to get the Arabic translators and the Spanish translators into a competition.	01:11
@Haarg	i need to get back on the translation project	01:11
+perlDreamer	it's no competition, perlmonkey2	01:11
+perlDreamer	the Arabic team haven't done anything in years	01:12
@Haarg	add a bit more motivation for it	01:12
+perlDreamer	how would you do that, Haarg?	01:12
@Haarg	karma	01:12
+perlmonkey2	free swag for the top advanced and most translated?	01:12
@Haarg	well, karma can get you swag	01:12
+perlDreamer	the i18n would have to be a 1st class Asset then	01:13
+perlDreamer	but...	01:13
+perlDreamer	we could also track who makes changes from here on out	01:13
+perlDreamer	which would be very nice	01:13
+perlmonkey2	bart would really love that.	01:13
+perlDreamer	especially in light of the recent Polish translation scandal	01:13
+patspam	Polish translation scandal?	01:14
+perlmonkey2	eh? another i18n scandal? What happened?	01:14
+perlmonkey2	naughty words slipped in?	01:14
+perlDreamer	well, the word on the street is that someone came in and did a bunch of bad translation work	01:14
+perlDreamer	they had to restore from SVN	01:14
@Haarg	the plan is to make i18n an asset, have it use git for storage, and have the commits record the author	01:15
+perlmonkey2	Nie b?d? pisa? naughty i18n s??w w t?umaczeniu.	01:15
+perlDreamer	which is another reason for WWN	01:15
@Haarg	if i do it correctly, it won't even need to have the modules on disk. that depends on it being fast enough of course.	01:18
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+perlDreamer	seems like doing the summary calculations across all the languages and namespaces would take a lot of memory	01:24
@Haarg	there would need to be a cache for something like that certainly	01:26
@Haarg	but i don't think it would be significantly worse to calculate than if the files were there	01:26
+perlDreamer	probably not	01:28
+perlDreamer	just the overhead of the protocol	01:28
+perlDreamer	and, wouldn't there need to be some kind of notification if github went down?	01:28
@Haarg	well, it won't be going to a remote repo directly	01:29
@Haarg	there would still be a local repo	01:29
@Haarg	it just wouldn't havea checkout	01:29
+perlDreamer	that's true	01:31
@Haarg	i was somewhat demotivated on the whole thing since i couldn't think of a good resolution to the context problem	01:34
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CIA-38	WebGUI: brian * r10101 /releases/WebGUI_7.6.18-stable: Release 7.6.18-stable	01:55
+perlDreamer	good job, bpmedley	02:03
+perlDreamer	WG releases are not an easy task	02:03
@bpmedley	Thx..	02:03
+perlDreamer	were there any test hiccups?	02:03
@bpmedley	Graham helped quite a bit..	02:03
@bpmedley	A few..	02:04
+perlDreamer	anything that I need to watch out for?	02:04
@bpmedley	I initially didn't check the 7.6.18 update in	02:04
@bpmedley	Not that I know of..	02:04
@bpmedley	Matrix upgrades take a bit of time	02:05
+perlDreamer	yeah, so does the i18n scanner	02:05
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+perlDreamer	okay, question for the group at large	02:25
+perlDreamer	at last year's WUC I did the Common WebGUI Programming Mistakes talk	02:25
+perlDreamer	this year there will not be a repeat	02:26
+perlDreamer	would people be interested in me blogging things as I find them, or should I save them for WUC 2010, in Melbourne?	02:26
CIA-38	WebGUI: brian * r10102 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (4 files in 4 dirs): preparing for 7.6.19 dev	02:30
+patspam	perlDreamer: blog em!	02:40
+patspam	we need more wg blog entries outsite of webgui.org and plainblack.com	02:40
+perlDreamer	do you blog, patspam?	02:44
+perlDreamer	of course, I'll have to come up with something new for the 2010 WUC then...	02:44
+patspam	infrequently.. at patspam.com	02:45
@preaction	WORDPRESS?	02:50
+perlDreamer	hey, it's still perl	02:50
@preaction	...	02:50
+perlDreamer	and WebGUI's blogging tools are not first rate	02:50
+perlDreamer	no trackbacks	02:50
+perlDreamer	no openId	02:50
@preaction	fine then.	02:51
+perlDreamer	bpmedley, are we cleared for 7.6.19 dev?	03:02
+perlDreamer	iow, is it safe to commit to the 7.6 branch?	03:02
@preaction	why would you ever want to commit to that branch?	03:03
@preaction	the 7.7 branch is where it's AT!	03:03
+perlDreamer	well, bug fixes and stuff	03:03
+perlDreamer	POD docs	03:03
+perlDreamer	new tests	03:03
@preaction	lame	03:03
+perlDreamer	I know, but maintenance is what I do best	03:03
@preaction	can't we just spray an industrial-sized can of RAID in that thing?	03:03
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10103 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/SQLReport.pm: Remove a hard coded extra in SQLReport	03:05
+patspam	Parse errors: Bad plan. You planned 21 tests but ran 10637.	03:06
+perlDreamer	10637 tests. That's impressive patspam	03:07
+patspam	heh, not really but it sounds cool	03:08
+patspam	i used wgd to dump a list of survey questions, answers, and expected branch targets to a file, and then generate tests from the file	03:08
+perlDreamer	oh, well from there you should be able to calculate a plan then	03:09
+perlDreamer	which won't give you that annoying 255 return code	03:10
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CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10104 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/SQLReport.pm: backport a fix for a hardcoded extras in SQLReport	03:36
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10105 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Shop/Vendor.pm: Remove hardcoded extras in Shop/Vendor.pm, also an i18n fix.	03:36
@preaction	and once again i get to hate google maps api...	03:43
@preaction	there is no non-obfuscated code to debug with	03:43
@preaction	so "this.Xa" is completely useless to me to debug...	03:43
+perlDreamer	I know what "this" is, finally!	03:49
+perlDreamer	now, if only I knew what to do with one	03:51
@preaction	http://webgui.pastebin.com/m7daa4bb2 this is the code i'm working with	03:53
@preaction	no matter what, the highlighted part always uses the last marker	03:53
@preaction	so instead of "marker" in line 31 being the marker is was created with, the marker ends up being the last marker added to the map	03:54
@preaction	is this because the evaluation of the anon function is deferred?	03:54
+perlDreamer	oh!	03:57
+perlDreamer	I know this one	03:57
+perlDreamer	it's due to the way it binds variables	03:58
@preaction	http://trephine.org/t/index.php?title=JavaScript_loop_closures <- yeah, i found it too	03:58
@preaction	it doesn't get a snapshot	03:58
+perlDreamer	right, like it would in perl	03:58
+perlDreamer	it's by reference	03:58
@preaction	yeah	03:58
@preaction	but i can force a snapshot using closures	03:58
+perlDreamer	yes	03:58
@preaction	I would like to know why the yahoo event handler auatomatically fixes this	04:01
@preaction	why and/or how	04:01
@preaction	or maybe it's because I use Yahoo's ability to pass an arbitrary object in	04:06
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@preaction	does anyone have any ideas how i should make the File upload control work with an ajax-grabbed form?	04:34
@preaction	or rather, work without javascript	04:34
@preaction	since it amounts to the same thing	04:34
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+perlmonkey2	ping	05:10
@preaction	pong	05:19
+perlDreamer	pang	05:23
+perlDreamer	hm, seems like Spectre has been hung up for a while	05:24
CIA-38	WebGUI: daviddelikat * r10106 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs):	06:03
CIA-38	WebGUI: fixed AdSku	06:03
CIA-38	WebGUI: added 'thanks' text after ad to cart	06:03
CIA-38	WebGUI: cleaned up i18n text	06:03
CIA-38	WebGUI: moved shop fields to shop tab	06:03
CIA-38	WebGUI: added AdSku Asset to WebGUI original config file	06:03
+perlDreamer	good work, daviddelikat	06:05
daviddelikat	seems like its ready...	06:05
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CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10107 /WebGUI/t/User.t: Coverage tests for various User methods.	06:27
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10108 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/User.pm: Add POD to bring POD coverage up to 100%	06:27
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10109 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Keyword.pm: POD for Keyword module to bring it to 100% coverage.	07:00
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10110 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Utility.pm: Fix a POD typo.	07:00
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10111 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (Account.pm Account/Friends.pm): Fix typos in POD that prevent 100% POD coverage.	07:00
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10112 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (Cache/FileCache.pm Content/SiteIndex.pm Form/Captcha.pm): Add POD and fix typos to get POD coverage up	07:00
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+perlDreamer	whole lot of POD'ing going on	07:17
+perlDreamer	I think I fixed over a dozen modules tonight	07:17
@preaction	nice	07:24
+perlDreamer	Haarg, bpmedley: http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/running-tests	07:30
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10113 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Fix POD typos and add POD to get to 100% POD coverage.	07:32
+perlDreamer	preaction, you still awake?	07:38
@preaction	yessuh massa	07:38
+perlDreamer	can you look at Asset/Redirect.pm, www_edit and tell me if you can see why its subclassed?	07:38
@preaction	i can't see why, no	07:40
+perlDreamer	given the option of writing POD for a duplicate method, or pruning the method...	07:40
+perlDreamer	I'd rather prune it	07:40
@preaction	i say prune it	07:40
@preaction	so, heh, i get to fake a file upload control enough so webgui processes it automatically	07:42
@preaction	and hopefully later i can go back to rewrite the file upload control to be awesome	07:43
elnino	perlDreamer, preaction - just thowing this out there, I didn't look at the code, but I did request the ability to have a redirect return a 301 or a 302. perhaps a reason why it's subclassed? I don't know. I'm going to sleep now.	07:44
@preaction	nope. www_edit doesn't redirect	07:44
@preaction	but enjoy sleep	07:44
+perlDreamer	34 modules on the wall	07:45
+perlDreamer	34 modules on the wall	07:45
+perlDreamer	take one down	07:45
+perlDreamer	POD it around	07:46
+perlDreamer	33 modules on the wall	07:46
elnino	perlDreamer needs sleep me thinks	07:49
+perlDreamer	'tis true	07:49
+perlDreamer	okay, after Airwolf gets over I'll log off and go to bed.	07:54
+perlDreamer	I can't leave String in the middle of a mission	07:55
+perlDreamer	I'm his wingman	07:55
elnino	I used to love that show! we found it on hulu or something.. ok. I'm going.. bye!	07:55
@preaction	who's string?	07:55
@preaction	who's airwolf?	07:55
@preaction	wtf is this?	07:55
+perlDreamer	http://en.wikipedia.com/Airwolf	07:56
+perlDreamer	http://www.hulu.com/airwolf	07:56
+perlDreamer	http://en.wikipedia.com/wiki/Airwolf works better :)	07:57
@preaction	ooh nice, Donald Bellisario	07:57
+perlDreamer	between Knight Rider, Magnum P.I. and Airwolf he did pretty well in the 80's	07:58
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@preaction	Quantum Leap was awesome in the 90's	07:59
@preaction	and JAG and NCIS are pretty decent	07:59
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10114 /WebGUI/t/POD.t:	08:00
CIA-38	WebGUI: Add more configuration to the POD coverage test. POD_COVERAGE==2 will check against 100%	08:00
CIA-38	WebGUI: coverage and emit a list of modules that POD to be covered.	08:00
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10115 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Redirect.pm: Remove www_edit. It's the same as Asset's.	08:00
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10116 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/RichEdit.pm: Add missing POD to bring RichEdit up to 100% POD.	08:00
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10117 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Snippet.pm:	08:00
CIA-38	WebGUI: Remove another duplicate www_edit method.	08:00
CIA-38	WebGUI: Add missing POD.	08:00
@preaction	Did you know? Tom Selleck could have played Indian Jones in Raiders of the Lost Ark?	08:06
@preaction	Did you know? WebGUI::Storage also deletes thumbnails just like WebGUI::Storage::Image does!	08:38
@preaction	but it doesn't create them! weird!!	08:38
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+Radix-wrk	http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/squeez-bacon.html	09:20
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--- Log closed Wed Apr 01 15:08:53 2009
--- Log opened Wed Apr 01 15:09:22 2009
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+perlmonkey2	I just read on a PHP message board that JT is starting a new project to move wG to PHP.	16:26
+BartJol	april fool	16:28
+BartJol	oh sorry: really perlmonkey2? that seems outragious!	16:30
+perlmonkey2	Ah, just saw an update. He says it would be easier to get the same effect as PHP by placing random sleep statements in the code, pulling out all the param sanitizing, and having all errors throw either the database error, the database dsn, or send back the actual database file.	16:30
CIA-38	WebGUI: translation * r10118 /translations/Polish/Polish/ (33 files): Update from translation server	16:32
+MrHairgrease	perlmonke2: url?	16:34
+MrHairgrease	and why are you reading php message boards	16:34
+MrHairgrease	or is that the joke?	16:34
+perlmonkey2	it is a joke	16:35
+perlmonkey2	This is April 1st, April Fool's Day.	16:35
* BartJol thinks kaleb tries to secretly reprogram WebGUI to php and will be killed by JT for that		16:35
+BartJol	slow suicide	16:36
+perlmonkey2	What would python get me?	16:36
+BartJol	well it will strangle you	16:37
+perlmonkey2	Did you read about that US governor's website that was erroring and actually posting the database files for anyone to download?	16:37
+perlmonkey2	PHP of course.	16:37
+BartJol	no, but it's very hard to take you seriously today	16:38
+BartJol	or conficker of course	16:38
+perlmonkey2	heh	16:39
+perlmonkey2	no, that one is true.	16:39
+BartJol	it hasn't bothered me yet, and I do have the redmond virus installed	16:40
+perlmonkey2	Wait, I think it is a Senate seat actually that is still being contested from the last election. One of their websites exposed all the contributors, supports, basically everything in the DB files.	16:40
+perlmonkey2	BartJol: and you survived conficker? I thought it was going to cause MS computers to grow legs and arms and start destroying humanity?	16:41
+BartJol	we all did, a matter of a good network and virus scanner setup	16:41
+BartJol	apparently ours is pretty good	16:42
+BartJol	but who would expect differntly	16:42
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+perlmonkey2	Mmmmm, baked an apple pie on Monday, now I have breakfast for the rest of the week....yum.	16:52
+BartJol	I'd like a piece please	16:54
+perlmonkey2	Should I zip it up or fax it? Or send if fedex?	16:54
+BartJol	a tar ball please	16:55
+perlmonkey2	I wonder how long a styrofoam container and dry ice would last :P	16:55
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+BartJol	perlmonkey2: did you hack JT's account?	17:01
+perlmonkey2	BartJol: what would make you think that?	17:02
+BartJol	the last black blog entry	17:02
+BartJol	do you have a testament?	17:04
+perlmonkey2	That is AWESOME	17:06
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+BartJol	so, who will be killed ritually?	17:12
+Radix_	WebGUI in PHP.. haven't I seen that before.. like.. every year	17:13
+BartJol	yes	17:13
+Radix_	You need a new one JT.. like webgui is partnering with oracle and will be written in PL/SQL or something	17:14
+Radix_	or will be bootstrapped in javascript	17:15
@rizen	i didn't ever write that one before	17:16
@rizen	in fact, i'm pretty sure the only one i've ever written was he one about microsoft buying out plain black	17:16
+Radix_	I've definitely heard the webgui rewritten in php one before	17:17
@rizen	yeah, that was webphooey	17:17
@rizen	and had nothing to do with me	17:17
@rizen	and didn't come out on april fools	17:17
+MrHairgrease	too bad the webphooey site is gone	17:17
+Radix_	Ahh k..	17:18
+perlmonkey2	That is funny rizen because "(08:26:16 AM) perlmonkey2: I just read on a PHP message board that JT is starting a new project to move wG to PHP."	17:19
@rizen	perlmonkey2: and that comment was independent of my blog?	17:21
+BartJol	don't believe him rizen	17:21
+perlmonkey2	rizen: yeah, my RSS updates to your blog are usually a few days delayed for some reason.	17:21
+BartJol	he hacked your account	17:21
@rizen	heh	17:22
+BartJol	built in functionality in survey2.0	17:22
-!- jdanpl [n=jdanpl@main.telvinet.pl] has quit ["Leaving"]		17:22
@rizen	i wouldn't doubt it	17:23
+MrHairgrease	hey rizen: Joeri gave his ok for me to go to the yapc::eu	17:23
+MrHairgrease	and rory is comming as well	17:23
@rizen	sweet ass sweet	17:24
+MrHairgrease	coming*	17:24
@rizen	it will be great to see you guys	17:24
+MrHairgrease	is that your association with us?	17:24
+MrHairgrease	sweetand ass?	17:24
+MrHairgrease	well, it'll sure be interesting =)	17:24
@rizen	MrHairgrease: are you saying you don't have a sweet ass?	17:24
+BartJol	yapc 2009: only sweet asses allowed	17:25
+MrHairgrease	nonono	17:25
+MrHairgrease	of course I have a sweet ass	17:25
+MrHairgrease	I just hoped for some recognition on a less banal level	17:26
+MrHairgrease	but as all eurotrash	17:26
+BartJol	martin is made from sugar!	17:26
+MrHairgrease	we compensate brainpower with good looks	17:26
+MrHairgrease	bart	17:26
+MrHairgrease	terrasje?	17:26
+BartJol	nou	17:26
+BartJol	lekker	17:27
@rizen	i too wish the webphooey site was still around, cuz i would have linked to it in my blog post	17:27
+Radix_	just make sure you sell MrHairgrease's ass at yapc - they like their auctions there ;)	17:30
+BartJol	sell? buy!	17:31
+Radix_	heck.. rent it out ;)	17:31
+BartJol	I think Marijn will claim his bottom	17:33
daviddelikat	I was talking to my kids about april fools	17:33
daviddelikat	ive been sharing the linksposted here and other places	17:34
daviddelikat	my middle daughter is on the silly side of gulible	17:34
daviddelikat	when I told here in the dictionary her picture was next to the def for gullible	17:34
daviddelikat	she said 'really?'	17:34
daviddelikat	today I told her I'd get her a hat that said 'A1' on it	17:35
daviddelikat	she said 'why?'	17:35
daviddelikat	I told here 'that's why'	17:35
daviddelikat	she didn't get it...	17:35
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* MrHairgrease doesn't get it either		18:00
diakopter	A1=April1	18:03
diakopter	I think	18:03
+MrHairgrease	oh	18:03
+MrHairgrease	maybe it's beacuse I don't hav children	18:04
diakopter	that you know of..	18:04
+MrHairgrease	what do you know taht I don't?	18:05
diakopter	nothing :P	18:05
+MrHairgrease	hehe	18:08
-!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-184.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui		18:18
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+perlDreamer	rizen, you ungrateful nit	18:19
@rizen	huh?	18:19
+perlDreamer	now I've gotta change my domain name to phpDreamer	18:19
@rizen	hehe	18:19
+perlDreamer	couldn't you have given me more notice about this?	18:19
@rizen	oh, i forgot	18:19
+MrHairgrease	php eveolved from some perl scripts	18:19
@rizen	well perlmonkey2 has to change his irc nick	18:19
+MrHairgrease	so you could just use php.perlDreamer	18:19
+perlDreamer	and my business cards, business license, 1099's	18:20
+perlDreamer	this is a huge amount of work	18:20
+perlDreamer	if you were going to change languages, you could have picked something better	18:20
@rizen	you shouldn't have used a name that was so volatile	18:20
+perlDreamer	like .NET	18:20
@rizen	that's why i chose plain black, it could be anything at all...a lot like zombo.com	18:20
+perlmonkey2	heh	18:20
+perlmonkey2	phpmonkey2	18:20
-!- perlmonkey2 is now known as phpmonkey2		18:20
+MrHairgrease	why not use Logo then...	18:21
@rizen	phpmonkey2: it's more like phpmonkey29393939	18:21
+MrHairgrease	chances are that your businesscards already have a logo	18:21
+phpmonkey2	hah	18:21
+perlDreamer	the little turtle is so cute	18:21
+MrHairgrease	yeah	18:21
+MrHairgrease	but change the turtle for a mousecursor	18:21
+MrHairgrease	and you could take over users' computers	18:22
+MrHairgrease	it's a win ain situation	18:22
+MrHairgrease	win win*	18:22
+MrHairgrease	YOU decide what pages users view	18:22
+MrHairgrease	so you could avoid showing them bugs	18:22
+MrHairgrease	and thus WebGUI has no bug any more effectively	18:23
+MrHairgrease	making it the most bestest CSM in the world.	18:23
+MrHairgrease	is there already a javascript Logo compiler?	18:24
+perlDreamer	rizen: The Polish translation is taking off! They're up at 40% and climbing steadily	18:29
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+BartJol	mm concurrention	18:34
-!- carogra1 [n=Caroline@h69-11-184-246.nwlnnh.dedicated.static.tds.net] has joined #webgui		18:37
-!- carogra1 [n=Caroline@h69-11-184-246.nwlnnh.dedicated.static.tds.net] has quit [Client Quit]		18:37
@rizen	wahoo!	18:37
@rizen	i like to see that	18:37
+perlDreamer	mmmmm Squeeze Bacon: http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/squeez-bacon.html?cpg=93T	18:39
+BartJol	well I sincerely believe that that exists	18:41
+MrHairgrease	rizen: like to see what?	18:42
@rizen	translations on the rise	18:42
+BartJol	maybe also more Polish people on the channel	18:43
+BartJol	I need some polish people for rebuilding my house	18:44
-!- perlDreamer is now known as phpDreamer		18:44
@rizen	i haven't looked at the percentages in a while	18:46
@rizen	the once glorious dutch translation is still the king but has lost some of it's shine	18:46
+BartJol	yeah, well I have to make it special again	18:47
+BartJol	it was lonely at the top	18:47
@rizen	the german translation has pulled ahead of arabic	18:47
+phpDreamer	and spanish is about to overtake arabic, too	18:47
+phpDreamer	Where's Ehab?	18:47
@rizen	and french, spanish, and polish are becoming real contenders	18:47
@rizen	ehab has been out of the game for a while	18:48
@rizen	he doesn't even seem to be keeping up with his businesses anymore	18:48
@rizen	not sure what that's about	18:49
+phpDreamer	that's a bummer	18:49
+phpDreamer	Did you notice Russian?	18:49
+phpDreamer	36% translated	18:49
@rizen	oh no i didn't see that	18:49
@rizen	very nice	18:49
@rizen	or as borat would say "Thats a neyece"	18:50
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+phpDreamer	maybe we need a sort by percent complete button on the front page	18:54
+BartJol	and the number of years that the dutch translation is on top	18:54
* BartJol is getting arrogant		18:54
+phpmonkey2	phpDreamer: if I had done my wind turbine in December, I would have averaged enough power put back on the grid to power every house in my neighborhood.	18:54
+phpmonkey2	up until now.	18:54
+phpDreamer	phpmonkey2: You could have been your own utility!	18:55
+phpDreamer	what happened now?	18:55
+phpDreamer	it stopped blowing?	18:55
+phpDreamer	oh, it started blowing the other way	18:55
+phpmonkey2	no, 20mph steady with up to 30mph gusts.	18:55
+phpDreamer	which would drain power from your house	18:55
+phpmonkey2	I'd still be averaging 4.5kw an hour.	18:55
+phpDreamer	phpmonkey2, GO BUY A WELDER!	18:55
+BartJol	phpDreamer: yeah that's the way dynamo's work	18:56
+MrHairgrease	bart!	18:56
+MrHairgrease	beertime	18:56
+phpmonkey2	yeah, I think it's time....If I start now, I can finish just in time for the slow wind season (summer) :P	18:56
+BartJol	finally	18:56
+MrHairgrease	hehe	18:56
+MrHairgrease	bye	18:56
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@gw.oqapi.nl] has left #webgui []		18:56
+BartJol	phpmonkey2: is also coming for beer?	18:56
+BartJol	nice	18:56
+phpmonkey2	I'll fax myself	18:56
+BartJol	see you in half an hour	18:56
+phpmonkey2	or send myself via tarbal	18:56
+phpmonkey2	drink a couple for me!	18:57
+BartJol	will do	18:57
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+phpDreamer	we lose more Dutch people at this time of day...	18:57
+phpmonkey2	they must go to their secret recharging stations.	18:57
+phpmonkey2	I think they use some sort of biofuel to recharge on created from grains.	18:58
+phpDreamer	isn't there an alcohol based engine?	19:00
+phpDreamer	now that would be a way to defeat the oil monopoly	19:00
+phpmonkey2	Dutch people?	19:00
+phpDreamer	we already have infrastructure	19:00
+phpmonkey2	ethanol?	19:00
+phpDreamer	storage and generation	19:00
+phpDreamer	it's carbon neutral	19:00
+phpDreamer	and you can always pick up an extra 6-pack if you're running out on the way home!	19:01
+phpmonkey2	40% of the science for doubling li-io batteries energy density is done. If that that other 60% happens, it's all over for oil.	19:02
@tavisto	woohoo WebGUI 8 is going to be in PHP!	19:02
@tavisto	I've been waiting for this for SOOOOOO LONG	19:02
+phpmonkey2	tavisto: would that make your job easier or harder. You get to say wG is built on the same tech as all the other FOSS CMS's, and don'thave to explain why perl is better anymore.	19:03
+phpDreamer	phpmonkey2, batteries are only for energy storage. You still have to find a way to make the electricity	19:03
@tavisto	YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!	19:03
+phpmonkey2	But then you have to explain away all the security issues that will pop up	19:03
* phpDreamer whacks phpmonkey2 with an ethanol powered, wind-filled lithium battery		19:04
+phpDreamer	there _are_ no security problems with PHP	19:04
+phpmonkey2	phpDreamer: new advances in wind technology coupled with cheap li-io commerical battery storage???	19:04
+phpDreamer	maybe we need a whole bunch of independently built wind farms	19:05
+phpmonkey2	kite powered wind turbines that tap the jet stream hold so much promise, it is hard to comprehend.	19:05
@tavisto	hehe	19:05
+phpmonkey2	phpDreamer: naw, using otherpower plans, it still costs a person much more per watt than GE can build them for.	19:06
@tavisto	No, I'm fine with the Perl gig.... I've got the whole response burned into my brain..... "Why does WebGUI use perl???"	19:06
@tavisto	That's when I say.... "Because your mom doesn't love you.. now go away"	19:06
+phpDreamer	phpmonkey2: but then the utility charges you. What's the breakeven point for DIY?	19:07
+phpmonkey2	tavisto: then when they are broken down and crying, you forge their name on the contract and run?	19:07
@tavisto	I'm like an abusive boyfriend breaking down the CMS potential customer	19:08
+phpmonkey2	phpDreamer: I priced a 3.5Meter turbine, back of envelope, at about $6k.	19:08
@tavisto	I'm the Ike Turner of the CMS sales world	19:08
+phpmonkey2	phpDreamer: that would make the average house in a decent wind zone, neutral on the grid.	19:08
+phpmonkey2	should average 1kw	19:08
+phpmonkey2	With my electric bill, I'd be looking at about a 5 year payback. But I have no idea on operating costs. I imagine the biggest deal is bad bearings, which would be a real pain to replace.	19:10
@rizen	hehe. tavisto makes me laugh	19:10
+phpDreamer	tavisto, there are two problems with that	19:10
+phpDreamer	1) You don't have a Tina	19:10
+phpDreamer	2) You don't have PHP in your nickname	19:11
-!- rizen is now known as phpizen		19:11
@tavisto	don't need Tina.. Becky is totally hotter	19:12
+phpDreamer	who is Becky?	19:12
+phpmonkey2	phpDreamer: biggest impediment: http://www.inl.gov/wind/photogallery/i/fthall_fmc_8_12_03_1.jpg the 20 meter tower.	19:13
+phpDreamer	yeah, that looks like a problem	19:14
+phpmonkey2	I'm pricing that as a $2.5k problem, in my calculations.	19:15
+phpmonkey2	probably way too cheap.	19:15
+phpDreamer	doesn't that push out our break even date, too?	19:15
@tavisto	I wouldn't stoop to that low phpDreamer. Using PHP is like using cigarettes.... everyone is doing it... but everyone is stupid for doing it. ;)	19:16
@tavisto	how about COBOL? I learned that in college.... that's been real beneficial to my career.	19:18
+phpmonkey2	phpDreamer: no, that was part of the $6k.	19:18
* phpizen wishes he could change tavisto's nick for him		19:18
@tavisto	nooooo!!!!	19:18
@tavisto	how about Fortranisto	19:18
daviddelikat	Cobol?	19:20
daviddelikat	our computer dept patently refused to teach it on the grounds that it is a dead language	19:20
@tavisto	yeah, I learned that in 2001	19:20
+phpmonkey2	phpDreamer: the 3 phase generator, blades, bearing, and housing, is actually the cheap part. Maybe $1k (I'd have to dig up my docs to make sure). Everything else is steel, steel cable, concrete, and more steel.	19:20
daviddelikat	yet fully half of my income since then was from doing cobol work	19:20
@tavisto	it was part of my CIS program.... which is entirely not focused on programming	19:21
daviddelikat	i wish coporate america would let it die a graceful death	19:21
daviddelikat	rather than make things like OOCobol	19:21
@tavisto	still lots of legacy systems using it. But it was strange.. here I am studying for my 3rd test towards MCSE and I'm learning Cobol	19:22
daviddelikat	you know how people often program in perl even tho they dont know how?	19:22
+phpmonkey2	My CS dept taught Cobol. But it was taught in a "you must learn everything about this language, so you know its shortcomings and why it is almost never a proper choice."	19:22
daviddelikat	well people who don't kow how to use cobol(like me) make little messes everywhere...	19:22
@tavisto	Good job college curriculum coordinators..... why not teach me zoology while you're at it	19:23
daviddelikat	that build up into systems tht fail consistantly	19:23
daviddelikat	which means we need more cobol programmers to fix them	19:24
daviddelikat	thats capitalism at work!	19:24
daviddelikat	:)	19:24
+phpDreamer	tavisto, are you really studying to be a MCSE?	19:27
@Haarg	http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=754313 talk about building a shipping api to work with any carrier	19:29
daviddelikat	tavisto: are you in a program or going solo?	19:30
@tavisto	dude that was when I was an engineer at Pharmacia (now Pfizer) back in 2001	19:30
@Haarg	too bad it probably wouldn't be complete soon enough for us to use if it does get built	19:31
+phpDreamer	maybe we should build it	19:31
@tavisto	we rolled W2k desktop images out to 55,000 employees across 60 countries	19:31
@tavisto	by the time we were halfway done.. people already wanted newer OS :)	19:31
@tavisto	daviddelikat, we had a group of us studying and then they sent us to bootcamp	19:32
@tavisto	which was stupid since many of the guys were 1 or 2 tests in	19:32
daviddelikat	I'v thought about going for MCSE but since I barely have time to do what I have to do now, it seems more prudent to work at finding income rather than looking for 'outgo' oportunities...	19:34
+phpDreamer	income vs outcome	19:36
@Haarg	all of the web services we integrate with in shop would be good candidates to make cpan modules out of, it just depends on how much time we want to spend on doing so	19:38
+phpDreamer	Vendor Payout is 7.7 only?	19:39
+phpDreamer	looks that way	19:40
-!- preaction is now known as phpaction		19:42
-!- Haarg is now known as PHPaarg		19:43
+phpmonkey2	hah	19:43
* phpDreamer is glad phpizen didn't choose Haskell for wG8		19:43
+phpmonkey2	phpDreamer: why?	19:43
@phpaction	or Erlang?	19:43
+phpmonkey2	that would have been hard to tell if it was a joke :P	19:43
@phpaction	i think Lisp is the only logical choice really	19:44
+phpDreamer	Scheme	19:44
+phpDreamer	.net	19:44
+phpDreamer	Ada	19:44
+phpmonkey2	Java	19:44
+phpDreamer	javascript	19:44
@PHPaarg	cmd batch script	19:44
+phpDreamer	Befunge	19:44
+phpmonkey2	If wG was to switch languages, there are what, two choices?	19:46
+phpmonkey2	Python and Perl6?	19:46
@PHPaarg	http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/10064 i'm not sure about this bug. initially preload.custom was meant for apache preloading, thus the name. but it does cause problems that the utility scripts don't all use it.	19:46
@PHPaarg	upgrade.pl does now, because otherwise there is a good chance of breaking things	19:47
@PHPaarg	also, copying and pasting the code to deal with it into a bunch of scripts obviously isn't ideal	19:49
@PHPaarg	seems almost like preload.custom should be part of the wre, not webgui itself	19:49
+phpDreamer	PHPaarg, what I don't get about 10064 is that Spectre uses only 2-3 modules. Everything else it dispatches back to WebGUI.	19:50
@PHPaarg	yeah, i'm not sure what modifications to spectre would be done	19:51
@PHPaarg	it doesn't have any plugin points	19:51
+phpDreamer	also, if custom.preload were part of the wre, it wouldn't work with source instals	19:54
+phpDreamer	or distribution packages	19:54
@PHPaarg	seems like that should be part of the environment though	19:55
@PHPaarg	adding paths to PERL5LIB accomplishes about the same thing	19:55
+phpDreamer	true	19:56
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CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10119 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix a gateway URL issue with the Vendor Payout js.	19:59
+phpDreamer	phphao, you're getting a little schizo, there	20:01
phphao	just a little?	20:03
+phpDreamer	well, it's only 1 other identity	20:04
+phpmonkey2	showSummary returns the current responses summary for the entire response, if no address is passed in, or just the section addressed by $sectionAddress.	20:09
+phpmonkey2	For each section, the total correct, wrong, and points are returned. And each question is listed with the text, given score, user response, and if it was correct. This list is meant for a template and only what is needed should be shown.	20:09
+phpmonkey2	Hmm, maybe throw in time taken per section and total time taken?	20:10
+phpDreamer	phpmonkey2: is it JSON data?	20:11
+phpmonkey2	phpDreamer: no, this will be returning a hash meant to be fed to a template.	20:11
+phpDreamer	in that case, I'd say the more data the merrier	20:11
+phpDreamer	until the point it bogs down	20:11
+phpmonkey2	:D	20:11
+phpmonkey2	you can never have too much datas in the internests	20:12
+phpDreamer	and don't forget the template variable help	20:12
+phpmonkey2	da helps	20:13
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+phpDreamer	tavisto, here's another rabbit trail to chase down: fossfor.us	20:21
+phpDreamer	they don't have a CMS category yet	20:21
+phpDreamer	but maybe they'd start one for you	20:21
+phpDreamer	seems more geared at desktop use, but who knows	20:21
+phpDreamer	hey, SynQ's the new PBWG	20:24
@tavisto	DUDE	20:25
@tavisto	WebGUI 8 Going PHP actually got picked up as a legit news story!!!	20:26
+phpDreamer	where?	20:26
+phpDreamer	linkage, dude	20:26
@tavisto	http://www.webgui.org/news/webgui-8-goes-php	20:27
+phpDreamer	oy	20:28
@tavisto	that's not cool at all	20:28
+phpDreamer	no	20:29
+phpDreamer	you're no stranger to love, tavisto	20:29
-!- carogra1 [n=Caroline@h69-11-184-246.nwlnnh.dedicated.static.tds.net] has quit ["Leaving."]		20:29
+phpDreamer	I don't know that this guy is smoking: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/10081	20:30
@tavisto	I got nothin	20:30
+phpDreamer	You know the rules, and so do I	20:31
+phpDreamer	in javascript, does : quote the left operator by default?	20:36
+phpDreamer	or am I getting confused by JSON?	20:36
@PHPaarg	it doesn't quote it exactly	20:44
@PHPaarg	but when defining an object, quotes can be eliminated for the keys as long as they are word characters	20:45
@PHPaarg	defining an object using { key : "value" } form	20:45
@PHPaarg	that's not valid json though	20:46
+phpDreamer	okay, that's what I thought	20:47
+phpDreamer	thanks, PHPaarg	20:47
@tavisto	I just want to tell you how I'm feeling....	20:51
@tavisto	want to make you... understand...	20:51
+phpDreamer	ah, followup post to 10081 makes more sense now	21:05
+phpDreamer	s/Asset/Form/g	21:05
-!- phpizen is now known as rizen		21:28
@tavisto	I knew you'd come back Rizen	21:35
+phpDreamer	Noooo!!!!	21:35
+phpDreamer	PHP Forever	21:35
* phpDreamer goes swimming, since running is only for perl hackers		21:42
@tavisto	punk	21:43
deafferret	PHP can have running	21:55
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phphao	phpaction, is wg 8 using couchdb?	22:16
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eternaluxe	This is probably an apache conf issue, but... www.mywebsite.com loads the default apache2 page. www.mywebsite.com/webgui loads webgui home page. How can I get to the webgui home page just by using my fqdn?	22:23
-!- carogra1 [n=Caroline@h69-11-184-246.nwlnnh.dedicated.static.tds.net] has joined #webgui		22:59
-!- carogra1 [n=Caroline@h69-11-184-246.nwlnnh.dedicated.static.tds.net] has quit ["Leaving."]		23:26
-!- eternaluxe [n=eternalu@gw.villageoflisle.org] has left #webgui []		23:27
* phpDreamer is back		23:40
+phpDreamer	phear my awesome fitness power	23:40
+phpDreamer	(now where did I place that DragonBall)?	23:41
elnino	whoa why do I have 16 wremonitors running? weird never saw that before.	23:43
@tavisto	yeah you're right, you should only have 15!	23:52
elnino	=)	23:53
elnino	I think my computer is playing a april fools on me.	23:53
@tavisto	sounds like it	23:54
elnino	I kill them. All is well. No errors very strange. will keep monitoring that's forsure.	23:54
+phpDreamer	elnino, any concerns about WebGUI 8 being in PHP?	23:55
+phpDreamer	it should fix our hosting issues	23:55
@tavisto	I have grave concerns	23:55
@tavisto	when perlDreamer finds out you are copying his name.. you are in big trouble	23:56
elnino	and how do you think that will fix your hosting issues? ;p	23:56
+phpDreamer	well, cheap hosting for wG will be available anywhere	23:57
elnino	oh ok.	23:57
elnino	because php is free?	23:57
elnino	and perl is not?	23:57
+phpDreamer	because php hosters are cheap	23:57
+phpDreamer	do you think there are a bunch of Drupal people who are joking about switching to Perl right now?	23:58
@tavisto	yeah, they have a product called Druperl	23:58
elnino	perhaps. =)	23:58
@tavisto	It's been out for awhile, check it out at http://www.webgui.org/news/webgui-8-goes-php	23:59
elnino	I really think should change your name back. it's giving me the creaps.	23:59
--- Day changed Thu Apr 02 2009
elnino	s/creaps/creeps	00:00
elnino	or crepes	00:00
elnino	=)	00:00
-!- phpmonkey2 is now known as perlmonkey2		00:01
+phpDreamer	speaking of crepes, I made these really good pumpkin cinnamon rolls a few weeks back	00:02
elnino	ooh. that's sounds good. You must think I cook alot. I only dream of doing that.	00:04
elnino	I do make pumpkin pie all year round. is that close?	00:05
elnino	I see perlmonkey2 is back. yeah!	00:07
+perlmonkey2	back in plain black.	00:07
+perlmonkey2	just need the AC/DC music.	00:08
+phpDreamer	elnino, cooking or eating, it makes no difference	00:13
+phpDreamer	important javascript safety tip, perlmonkey2	00:16
+phpDreamer	the <script> tag will not close itself	00:16
+perlmonkey2	where do you see that?	00:17
+perlmonkey2	I thought all my js was in js files?	00:17
+phpDreamer	in my code :(	00:17
+perlmonkey2	JS in templates?	00:17
+phpDreamer	only a little bit	00:17
+perlmonkey2	stupid script tag.....it really should know to close itself.	00:18
+phpDreamer	indeed	00:18
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+phpDreamer	I think I just wrote a constructor.	00:45
+phpDreamer	in javascript	00:45
elnino	yeah preaction is back.	00:45
+phpDreamer	and it may even work	00:45
+phpDreamer	it can't be	00:46
+phpDreamer	somebody kick me out of the channel, I'm dreaming!	00:46
+phpDreamer	anybody seen phpspam today?	00:52
-!- preaction changed the topic of #webgui to: [ 7.6.18-stable \| WRE 0.9.1 ] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org \| Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com/		01:07
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+phpDreamer	good news, patspam	01:32
+phpDreamer	WebGUI 8 will be written in PHP	01:32
+phpDreamer	JT is selling Plain Black to SynQ, and is moving to Tahiti where he'll be selling wooden idols	01:32
+patspam	damn i was hoping JT would choose lisp	01:33
+phpDreamer	as the new owner of PB, that was SynQ's call	01:33
@tavisto	phpDreamer!	01:45
+phpDreamer	yes, tavisto?	01:45
@tavisto	dude you better run... I heard perlDreamer is going to be in here soon... and he's going to murder you	01:45
+phpDreamer	is april 1 over now?	01:46
+patspam	sadly yes, over here at least	01:47
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elnino	perlDreamer is back!	01:59
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elnino	Haarg is back!	02:08
@Haarg	indeed	02:08
elnino	do you watch SG atlantis?	02:08
+perlDreamer	yes	02:10
+perlDreamer	well, used to before it ended	02:10
elnino	Haarg just reminded me of the episode of when Ronin made note that Tielk (special appearance from SG-1) said "indeed" alot.	02:13
+perlDreamer	I think that SG is the reason we all say "indeed"	02:13
elnino	indeed... lol.	02:13
elnino	I'm going to go cook food now. Bye!	02:13
@Haarg	i thought i was going insane there for a bit, then finally figured out my problem	02:17
@Haarg	apparently setting things in %ENV in mod_perl doesn't set the environment for subcommands	02:17
+perlDreamer	huh?	02:22
+perlDreamer	if you set %ENV for a process	02:22
+perlDreamer	and invoke a subprocess	02:22
+perlDreamer	you get the original ENV?	02:22
@Haarg	i get the env of the terminal i started apache with	02:22
@Haarg	where %ENV has all the CGI stuff	02:23
@Haarg	this is going to be extremely annoying to work around :/	02:33
+perlDreamer	what're you trying to do?	02:34
+perlDreamer	Would it be easier in PHP? ;)	02:34
@Haarg	i'm using a module i didn't write that depends on being able to set env variables	02:34
@Haarg	the two options i can think of are tieing %ENV to something so when it sets things i can call $r->subprocess_env->set() for everything	02:36
+perlDreamer	what about using a different module?	02:36
@Haarg	or rewriting Session::Env to not use ENV directly and instead manually map things to apache's api	02:36
@Haarg	this is for interfacing with Git. i'm pretty sure i don't have other options	02:37
@Haarg	although i could just not use the module at all	02:37
@Haarg	i'd have to write a bunch of io code though that i would rather avoid	02:38
+perlDreamer	what about altering the module so that it doesn't need %ENV?	02:38
+perlDreamer	you might be doing other people a favor, although it could be a lot of work	02:39
@Haarg	well, that's what i'll be doing for now i guess	02:43
* perlDreamer goes to dinner		03:16
+perlDreamer	bpmedley, Haarg: several tests are failing in the 7.7 branch	03:16
+perlDreamer	might want to schedule some extra time tracking things down in there	03:16
@Haarg	ok, thanks	03:16
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10120 /WebGUI/t/Shop/Cart.t:	03:24
CIA-38	WebGUI: Shipper is no longer checked by readyForCheckout. Update	03:24
CIA-38	WebGUI: test to follow.	03:24
diakopter	Haarg: tie %ENV to use Session stowage? (and always use the same sessionid)	03:28
diakopter	?	03:28
@Haarg	not really possible	03:29
@Haarg	to get env to work as expected for that, it either needs to call subprocess_env->set for anything modified in it	03:30
@Haarg	or it needs to not have mod_perl messing with it	03:30
@Haarg	to get mod_perl to not mess with it, it would need to use the SetHandler modperl instead of SetHandler perl-script	03:31
diakopter	tie env globally before apache forks...	03:31
@Haarg	which means all of the cgi variables don't get set	03:31
@Haarg	and since they are used, we'd need to provide an alternate api for them	03:32
@Haarg	what would the tie be doing?	03:32
diakopter	as long what's stored is serializable/freezable/marshallable, keep a structured text version in a temp file somewhere... or even in an apache server var	03:36
@Haarg	of what data?	03:36
diakopter	whatever is/will be in %ENV	03:37
diakopter	strings only, I guess	03:37
@Haarg	it isn't an issue of storing the information	03:38
@Haarg	it's an issue of modifying it	03:38
@Haarg	the cgi variables aren't available until after mod_perl plays with ENV	03:39
@Haarg	and once it has played with ENV, it can't be put back to it's original behavior	03:39
diakopter	if %ENV is tied before apache2 [pre]forks, all the children will look to a copy of the same tied hash, which (if your tie interface is implemented correctly) could pull from the proper place.	03:40
@Haarg	what is the proper place?	03:40
@Haarg	i'm not clear which side of the issue you are trying to resolve	03:41
@Haarg	the issue of not being able to set things in the environment, or the issue of not having access to the CGI variables	03:42
diakopter	the tied hash knows the pid of each var that's set... if a process requests a key of %ENV that was set by the parent process, it uses that one... otherwise it uses the initial set	03:42
diakopter	the former	03:42
diakopter	I'm just describing a way to implement a data structure shared by concurrent processes, with a bit of overriding/inheritance.	03:43
diakopter	using tie from the initial/master process	03:43
@Haarg	there's nothing really about the initial process i care about, and no sharing between apache processes involved	03:44
diakopter	once the subprocesses are invoked, their %ENV would need to be tied to use the same logic	03:44
@Haarg	the issue is that inside mod_perl, %ENV no longer represents the environment.	03:44
@Haarg	so i could either force writes to %ENV also change the environment	03:45
@Haarg	or i could get mod_perl to not mess with %ENV	03:46
diakopter	I don't think you're understanding my suggested solution... I'm suggesting redirecting all STORE/FETCH to/from %ENV in all these processes to a shared data structure that's smart enough to understand the parent process logic I mentioned. You don't see how that's a possible 3rd solution other than the 2 you mentioned?	03:48
@Haarg	i don't have any control over the sub process	03:48
@Haarg	it isn't part of mod_perl	03:48
@Haarg	it's just an executable	03:48
diakopter	oh; it's not a .pl script?	03:49
@Haarg	nope	03:49
diakopter	if not, create a wrapper .pl script that constructs the %ENV appropriately.	03:49
diakopter	or set the env in the command line	03:49
diakopter	(send it through bash)	03:50
@Haarg	i don't have control over the command line either	03:50
@Haarg	i'm using a module that wraps calls to executables	03:50
@Haarg	and it doesn't provide full control over the command line, because the whole point is that it is an abstraction layer	03:51
diakopter	ok, so this module is loaded in mod_perl. I guess it needs monkey-patching...	03:51
@Haarg	yeah	03:52
@Haarg	best alternative option is to tie ENV so it modifies the real environment	03:52
diakopter	what command line wrapper module is this?	03:52
@Haarg	Git	03:52
@Haarg	i may try to write a tie interface to deal with the issue, but it seems likely it will be annoying to do	03:53
@Haarg	so i'm just modifying the module for now	03:54
diakopter	I don't see how that could work... (modifying the master apache process' env)... I doubt that would affect new subprocesses of apache	03:54
@Haarg	i don't need to modify the master apache process's env	03:54
diakopter	you're referring to what "real environment"? (Sorry I'm slow :()	03:55
@Haarg	the environment that gets passed to all sub-processes and can be modified using export in bash or %ENV in perl	03:56
diakopter	I thought the problem was that, once spawned, a mod_perl child process	03:57
diakopter	's subprocesses would use the original %ENV	03:57
@Haarg	the problem is that the environment that gets passed to sub-processes is usually available and modifiable through %ENV	03:58
@Haarg	in mod_perl, it disconnects that variable from the low level environment stuff	03:58
diakopter	right	03:58
diakopter	my question was	03:58
@Haarg	so you can't use it to pass things to the sub-processes	03:58
diakopter	how will you do that	03:58
diakopter	if you can't use perl	03:58
@Haarg	apache has a separate api for it	03:58
diakopter	ok, it wasn't clear to me that you meant "use apache's api to define the subprocess' env" by "tie ENV so it modifies the real environment"	04:01
@Haarg	yeah, i should have been a bit more clear	04:08
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+patspam	perlDreamer: trunk r10081 gives me segfaults	04:13
+patspam	probably because i need to upgrade clone	04:14
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* diakopter was getting segfaults too		04:23
diakopter	(until upgrading Clone)	04:23
+patspam	yupyup, upgrading clone fixed it	04:25
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CIA-38	WebGUI: patspam * r10121 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Made Survey branch expressions eval in safe compartment	05:25
CIA-38	WebGUI: patspam * r10122 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs):	05:25
CIA-38	WebGUI: Rewrote Survey gotoExpression tests now that we have perl power in	05:25
CIA-38	WebGUI: expressions	05:25
@Haarg	this env thing is really annoying. using subprocess_env doesn't even work the way i'm using it, it may only apply when you use apache's api to run sub processes.	05:25
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elnino	hi! I've just completed moving about 10 sites to a new machine with a new ip address.	06:29
elnino	but I'm getting Visitor (1) connecting from 67.223.227.84 attempted to make a Spectre cron job runner request, but we're only allowed to accept requests from 127.0.0.1/32,66.240.210.87/32,127.0.0.1/32.	06:29
elnino	I've set the ip address correctly, so my question is, are these left over crons that have the old ip address recorded somehere?	06:30
elnino	should I temporarily allow the old IP address?	06:30
elnino	NEVERMIND figured it out	06:34
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CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10123 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/AssetAspect/RssFeed.pm: Fix POD errors.	07:12
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10124 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey/ResponseJSON.pm: Fix POD errors.	07:43
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10125 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Wobject/Collaboration.t: Update this test to work with the new RSS Aspect.	08:13
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10126 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/AssetAspect/RssFeed.pm: Fix module name for RDF generation.	08:13
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10127 /WebGUI/www/extras/VendorPayout/vendorPayout.js: Fix more gateway errors in URLs	08:13
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10128 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/SyndicatedContent.pm: Removing debug code.	08:13
CIA-38	WebGUI: patspam * r10129 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Improved Survey validation messages	08:13
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10130 /WebGUI/docs/gotcha.txt: Document the newer version of Clone required for 7.7.2 in the gotchas.txt file.	08:13
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CIA-38	WebGUI: patspam * r10131 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey/SurveyJSON.pm: Further improved Survey validation checking	09:16
CIA-38	WebGUI: patspam * r10132 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Fixed SurveyJSON->questions which was short-changing getGotoTargets	09:16
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CIA-38	WebGUI: translation * r10133 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (Asset_GalleryAlbum.pm Asset_Post.pm): Update from translation server	15:09
CIA-38	WebGUI: translation * r10134 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Asset_Navigation.pm: Update from translation server	15:09
+BartJol	he?	15:09
+MrHairgrease	it wasn't you?	15:10
+BartJol	nope	15:10
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+BartJol	strange, but I don't see bs translations	15:11
+MrHairgrease	bs?	15:14
+BartJol	bullshit	15:14
+MrHairgrease	ah	15:15
+MrHairgrease	that's probably because nowhere in the i18n message cow's excrement is being mentioned	15:16
+BartJol	well, someone did put in a porn link a time ago	15:16
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CIA-38	WebGUI: translation * r10135 /translations/German/German/Asset_Survey.pm: Update from translation server	15:55
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SynQ	hi there	17:21
+MrHairgrease	hey Koen!	17:21
SynQ	I'm looking for an affordable remote support solution	17:22
SynQ	that works	17:22
SynQ	like www.gotoassist.com	17:22
SynQ	but better/different/cheaper	17:23
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SynQ	Tavis brother	17:26
@tavisto	Hey SynQ, how are you?	17:26
SynQ	I'm featured :)	17:26
@tavisto	yessir, I like the view from your office	17:27
SynQ	nice and light	17:27
SynQ	it is my home office	17:27
@tavisto	it's about time you were PBWG. I was able to dodge the bullet for awhile too :)	17:27
SynQ	hehe	17:27
SynQ	now I'm going to ask for a PBWG lounge at the WUC ;)	17:28
@tavisto	haha good idea!	17:28
SynQ	a restricted are members only	17:28
@tavisto	or a badge on your ribbon	17:28
SynQ	indeed	17:28
SynQ	you should be able to spend your karma at the wuc too	17:29
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@tavisto	I think under the revised Karma system, this is possible	17:31
SynQ	oeh wow	17:31
@tavisto	that's a good point and I will check on that	17:31
SynQ	have you implemented any shops recently?	17:31
@tavisto	I think it's 10,000 = a free 12oz beer	17:31
@tavisto	:)	17:31
SynQ	10K	17:32
SynQ	10K = 100 dollars worth of swag on the site	17:32
@tavisto	SynQ, it's inflation.. I'm sorry. Your government keeps printing Karma and going further into debt	17:32
SynQ	hehe	17:32
@tavisto	;)	17:32
@tavisto	but that's an excellent point about using Karma AT the WUC to get stuff	17:33
SynQ	the JT Jevarra dictatorship	17:33
@tavisto	books/t=shirts, etc..	17:33
@tavisto	Maybe we should also let people buy stuff with Karma a week before the WUC and then we can have it ready for pickup at the WUC too	17:34
@tavisto	(that might help prevent us from running out of stuff)	17:34
SynQ	which saves on shipping	17:34
@tavisto	exactly, except the books will include it -- at least domestically	17:34
@tavisto	it'll be much cheaper than the international rates though	17:35
@tavisto	SynQ, how do you think that we could make the install process of WebGUI easier? Do you think that it's easy enough right now?	17:35
SynQ	that's a 2 hour discussion question	17:36
SynQ	I don't have that time now	17:36
SynQ	but to the second question I would say 'no' now	17:37
@tavisto	Well to start I want to keep it high level. But when you get a chance, I think we need to put some minds together and see how it can be improved	17:37
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SynQ	tavisto: good plan	17:38
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SynQ	we have just scheduled a WebGUI drink over here	17:38
SynQ	perhaps we could try and get a livelink to the USA	17:38
SynQ	video conference or something	17:39
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@tavisto	TechRepublic.com was going to showcase WebGUI on their site as a "featured CMS product" but he's encountered a ton of install issues. (Mainly related to the fact that he already has Apache & MySQL on his server)	17:39
SynQ	tavis: PB uses webex right?	17:39
@tavisto	Yes SynQ, we can video conference as I have both Skype and Adobe Connect	17:40
SynQ	are you satisfied with webex?	17:40
@tavisto	Anyway, Doug asked some good questions and these are ones that I have asked in the past when people have told me the installation is often times too difficult	17:40
@tavisto	However, our developers are so used to the system that they aren't objective or a good representation of a new user who's trying to install WebGUI.	17:41
@tavisto	We use Adobe Connect, which is a cheaper service than WebEX	17:42
SynQ	ah	17:42
@tavisto	Seems to work well and is only $400/year	17:42
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SynQ	ok	17:43
@tavisto	Anyway, I think there is great value in getting some smart people together and trying to streamline the install process. (or atleast the documentation to make it easier)	17:43
SynQ	I'm looking for a remote support tool	17:43
SynQ	not so much a web-communication too	17:43
SynQ	tool	17:43
@tavisto	We used to use Gotomeeting and that was awesome	17:44
SynQ	gotomeeting is citrix based	17:44
SynQ	right?	17:44
@tavisto	It wasn't cross-browser supported though so we switched	17:44
@tavisto	Yes	17:44
@tavisto	They have a GoToAssist product for remote support	17:44
SynQ	indeed	17:45
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@tavisto	er wait.. sorry not cross-browser, but the supported OS was only Windows for the small business package. You have to pay a lot more to get Mac and Linux support	17:45
SynQ	ah	17:46
SynQ	that is important indeed	17:46
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@tavisto	Welcome to the #WebGUI IRC channel perlDreamer. How may I help you?	19:13
+perlDreamer	You can tell SynQ that he rocks!	19:13
@tavisto	I am sorry, but that does not computer. Need input.	19:14
@tavisto	er.. compute	19:14
deafferret	stupid bot :(	19:14
+perlDreamer	tavisto: reboot and resync with channel	19:15
+perlDreamer	tavisto: prepare for firmware upgrade	19:16
+perlDreamer	bopbop: thanks for your wiki spam clean-up	19:16
+perlDreamer	I thought I was the only person doing that	19:16
@tavisto	I also go through when I can and delete wiki junk	19:20
@tavisto	I noticed it starting to build up about 6 months ago	19:21
@Haarg	perlDreamer, i'm adding a session parameter to exportAssetCollateral	19:21
@Haarg	to pass the 'reporting' session so it can output the status messages	19:22
@Haarg	probably just going to add it as an optional third parameter	19:23
CIA-38	WebGUI: graham * r10136 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): RssFeed fixes and cleanups	19:32
+perlDreamer	Haarg, still getting two failures for assetExport	19:38
+perlDreamer	they're related to the files that are created during export	19:39
@Haarg	ah, forgot to fix that one	19:39
+perlDreamer	I worked on that one a little last night	19:39
+perlDreamer	the exporter does not know that the RSS and Atom files get created	19:39
+perlDreamer	so if you add them to the list of created files	19:39
+perlDreamer	then the count will be off	19:39
@Haarg	still need to check/fix the upgrade script as well	19:40
+perlDreamer	I can take on the test if you want to do that	19:40
@Haarg	that would be great	19:40
+perlDreamer	this is not a robust test	19:49
+perlDreamer	but it's passing now :)	19:52
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, I also removed the TEST_POD environment variable for POD.t, so it runs all the time now	19:54
@Haarg	cool	19:54
+perlDreamer	now the only test that is guarded by an environment variable is i18n/critic_labels.t	19:54
@Haarg	nice	19:54
+perlDreamer	did you see my other tweak to that?	19:55
+perlDreamer	if POD_COVERAGE==2, it will tell you what subs need POD	19:55
@Haarg	yeah	19:55
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10137 /WebGUI/t/Asset/AssetExportHtml.t: Account for asset collateral in generated files for the AssetExportHtml test.	19:55
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10138 /WebGUI/t/POD.t: POD.t should be run all the time, as well.	19:55
@Haarg	i was thinking though	19:56
@Haarg	if you don't run with -v, that information doesn't show anyway	19:56
+perlDreamer	not in prove	19:56
@Haarg	so wouldn't it make sense to show it all the time?	19:56
@Haarg	if the tests fail, might as well tell people why	19:56
+perlDreamer	how would it need to be output in order to do that?	19:57
+perlDreamer	it would have to be built into the test comments	19:57
+perlDreamer	rather than diag output	19:57
@Haarg	what i mean is, why only show that information for POD_COVERAGE==2?	19:57
+perlDreamer	oh, it also changes the threshold to 100%	19:58
+perlDreamer	you and I had set a threshold of 75% being acceptable for POD	19:58
+perlDreamer	this tells you everything that needs POD	19:58
+perlDreamer	but there's no reason it couldn't output what needs POD for either threshold	19:58
@Haarg	that's what i was thinking	19:58
+perlDreamer	okay, that's committed	20:04
+perlDreamer	52 modules need more POD	20:05
+perlDreamer	make that 51	20:06
+perlDreamer	make that 47	20:10
+perlDreamer	46	20:12
@tavisto	hmm... Haarg, I've got an email asking me what the requirements are for an ISP/hosting company to run WebGUI. I pointed them to http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/system-requirements and they responded and said that they are still having a hard time finding the precise info for the server-requirements for the ISP/hosting company. As long as they have root access to the server, they can install the WRE and all pre-requisites	20:14
+perlDreamer	tavisto, are they asking for hardware specs?	20:15
+perlDreamer	disk space, processor, memory?	20:15
@tavisto	no it looks like they're looking for a list of software prerequisites to ask their hosting company about	20:17
+perlDreamer	inside the WebGUI source, there's a script called testEnvironment.pl	20:18
+perlDreamer	it has a complete list of all software version of perl modules required for WebGUI.	20:18
@tavisto	that's why I'm rather confused. Unless they are saying they want to know the individual prerequisite stuff inside the WRE	20:18
@tavisto	alright, I'll include that as well	20:19
+perlDreamer	but the WRE specs would be more complete, with perl, mysql, ImageMagick, Apache, etc.	20:19
+perlDreamer	tavisto, it's possible that we really need such a document, so this is good stuff	20:19
@tavisto	Yeah, he mentions he found the specific requirements for the WRE but then wanted to know about the hosting company. So maybe I need to clarify the way that the WRE works.	20:20
@tavisto	thanks perlDreamer	20:20
* perlDreamer bows		20:20
+perlDreamer	44 modules, but it gets sticky from here on out.	20:26
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10139 /WebGUI/t/POD.t:	20:37
CIA-38	WebGUI: Output subroutines missing POD regardless of coverage threshold.	20:37
CIA-38	WebGUI: Fix the threshold to work correctly based on ENV.	20:37
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10140 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Sku/Donation.pm: Fix a POD typo.	20:37
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10141 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Shelf.pm: Add missing POD for www_edit to Shelf.	20:37
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10142 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/ (3 files in 2 dirs): fix POD typos	20:37
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10143 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Shop/PayDriver/Cash.pm: Remove an empty sub stub.	20:37
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10144 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/ (EventManagementSystem.pm Folder.pm Survey.pm): Fix broken POD, and add missing POD.	20:37
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, with the change to Collaboration.t, there's an extra test	20:45
+perlDreamer	but it's a duplicate of one above it	20:45
@Haarg	hm	20:45
+perlDreamer	nuke it?	20:45
@Haarg	sure	20:45
@Haarg	missed that when merging	20:46
+perlDreamer	another question?	20:49
+perlDreamer	in SyndicatedContent, you added scalar before the $feed and $object calls	20:49
+perlDreamer	but the docs for XML::FeedPP say they're already scalars (title, link, etc.)	20:49
@Haarg	they do return; if the value doesn't exist	20:51
+perlDreamer	oh	20:51
@Haarg	was rather confusing when we first saw the problems with that. titles showing up as 'javascript'.	20:59
+perlDreamer	test suite is running clean, with the exception of NotifyAboutLowStock	21:00
+perlDreamer	which means the test is broken, or some other test is leaking	21:00
+perlDreamer	it runs clean after a db reset	21:00
+perlDreamer	so I'm guessing that something is leaking Skus	21:00
diakopter	Sku is mentioned in AssetAspect/Comments.pm	21:13
diakopter	not sure why	21:14
+perlDreamer	It originally came out of the Bazaar, iirc	21:15
+perlDreamer	but that doesn't mean that the class name should still be BazaarItem :)	21:16
diakopter	does that mean it should be changed? (but I guess it couldn't be the Sku leak source since that class doesn't even exist?)	21:29
diakopter	(or does it?)	21:31
+perlDreamer	it's not	21:33
+perlDreamer	the test isn't failing consistently, which means that there's either a bug in the activity, or the test is bad	21:34
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10145 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Wobject/Collaboration.t: Remove a duplicate test.	22:02
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10146 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/NotifyAboutLowStock.pm: Fix POD copy/paste problems.	22:02
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10147 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/NotifyAboutLowStock.pm: Backport POD copy/paste fix.	22:02
+perlDreamer	how much trouble will I get into if I run perltidy on the SQLReport?	22:22
diakopter	deep? har.	22:23
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diakopter	CIA-38: be more frequent	22:43
@preaction	heh	22:43
CIA-38	WebGUI: diakopter * r10148 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 2 dirs): During 7.7.2 upgrade, adding routines to unlink unused .pm and correctly port over rss item limit.	22:51
CIA-38	WebGUI: diakopter * r10149 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.7.1-7.7.2.pl: catch one more upgrade/porting case	22:51
CIA-38	WebGUI: diakopter * r10150 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.7.1-7.7.2.pl: <sigh/> fixing my flub. nothing to see here.	22:51
diakopter	perlDreamer: here's an idea for a test... check for orphaned i18n labels... labels defined in the i18n hashes but not accessed by anything. I bet there's oodles. if that test doesn't exist.	22:59
@preaction	the test would also have to check ^International() in templates	23:10
@preaction	but that seems completely do-able	23:10
diakopter	non-existant - spello	23:11
diakopter	don't remember where I saw it :)	23:11
diakopter	oh, syntaxos: and it's contents and from it's storage	23:12
diakopter	POD I'm sure	23:12
diakopter	anyone: is there an asset method to trash an asset, but preserve any children it may have by promoting them up a level?	23:17
diakopter	(well, really, purge)	23:18
diakopter	I need to purge any/all the RSSFromParent assets, but it's possible that someone has put other assets under it (by pasting, I guess), and I don't want to purge their stuff	23:19
@Haarg	no, but i don't think you need to worry about that	23:20
* diakopter takes your word for it.		23:20
diakopter	:P	23:20
@Haarg	what do you have for that so far? because i was working on the same problem	23:20
diakopter	for that method? or just deleting assets of a certain class	23:21
@Haarg	for whatever you are adding to the upgrade script	23:21
diakopter	heh, sec	23:22
@Haarg	http://gist.github.com/89411	23:23
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@Haarg	i know of at least one custom asset that is using rsscapable/rssfromparent	23:24
@Haarg	which is what my modifications are meant to deal with	23:24
diakopter	oh. /me doesn't feel so bad, then	23:24
@Haarg	my changes aren't complete yet	23:25
diakopter	ok, so hrm... so I shouldn't have deleted those .pm from svn?	23:26
@Haarg	they are fine to delete from svn, but we don't want to delete them as part of the upgrade	23:27
diakopter	Asset/RSSCapable.cpm, Asset/RSSFromParent.pm, i18n/English/blah	23:27
diakopter	okay	23:27
diakopter	maHarg: all the Collaboration assets should have rows in RSSCapable before the upgrade.. even if they're not rss enabled	23:32
diakopter	as far as I understand it	23:32
@Haarg	yes	23:33
@Haarg	they would be broken if they did not	23:33
diakopter	ok, so everyone would see that warning you have there..... oh; no, b/c you're deleting those rows. I see now :)	23:34
@Haarg	yeah	23:34
@Haarg	also, that's the part that isn't complete	23:34
+perlmonkey2	preaction: is that a real PHP "template"? It is horrible	23:44
* perlDreamer thought PHP was easy, like javascript		23:45
@preaction	perlmonkey2: i don't know if it is 100% error-free PHP, but it is very close to it	23:45
+perlmonkey2	all those poor souls around the world, condemned to such madness.	23:45
@preaction	very close to what one of those highschool students will do with PHP at least	23:45
@preaction	there are abstractions and other such that makes PHP less of an abomination	23:45
@preaction	but i don't know PHP and hope I never have to learn it	23:46
+perlDreamer	Haarg knows some PHP, iirc	23:51
@Haarg	some	23:52
+perlDreamer	Haarg, I'm 75% of the way through a bugfix. When is release for 7.7.2?	23:57
@Haarg	it will be a bit longer	23:57
+perlDreamer	let me know when you start	23:57
+perlDreamer	I'm just down to testing	23:57
@Haarg	sure	23:57
+perlDreamer	but setting up carts with items takes time	23:57
@preaction	damnit. i knew i forgot something. looks like my new asset will wait for 773	23:57
+perlDreamer	that's what ya get fer dinkin' around with PHP	23:58
--- Day changed Fri Apr 03 2009
CIA-38	WebGUI: diakopter * r10151 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/ (Asset_RSSFromParent.pm Asset_RSSCapable.pm): buhleted. (RSS* i18n)	00:18
+perlDreamer	what's the magic mysql command to get the current time as an epoch?	00:25
@preaction	UNIX_TIMESTAMP()	00:27
+perlDreamer	thanks, preaction	00:27
@preaction	you might need a NOW() inside those parens	00:27
@preaction	but i think that's the default	00:27
+perlDreamer	it seems to be	00:28
+perlDreamer	Haarg, ready to commit. Have you started?	00:34
@Haarg	not yet, but ready to	00:34
+perlDreamer	okay, I need 5 minutes	00:34
@Haarg	not a problem	00:35
+perlDreamer	I may need a little help with the gotchas notice	00:35
+perlDreamer	since this bug requires adding a db column to Cart	00:35
+perlDreamer	dang it, no I'm not ready	00:36
+perlDreamer	I have to do the config file upgrades	00:36
+perlDreamer	I'll get this in tomorrow	00:36
@Haarg	i can wait a bit	00:36
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@Haarg	i have to do a couple more things for the rss thing actually	00:37
+perlDreamer	okay, I'll try to finish it up	00:37
+perlDreamer	I need a config file update, and I have to modify one of the default workflows to add the new activity	00:37
SynQ	perlDreamer: you rock too!	00:38
+perlDreamer	welcome to the club, SynQ	00:38
SynQ	thanks	00:38
+perlDreamer	you should ask Mr preaction to voice you	00:38
SynQ	voice me?	00:38
SynQ	no comprendre	00:38
+perlDreamer	you get a little widget next to your name	00:38
+perlDreamer	so people know that you're to be respected and listened to	00:39
SynQ	wow	00:39
SynQ	perhaps we should get tattoos during the wuc ;)	00:39
SynQ	pbwg on the right ball :P	00:39
SynQ	painfull buth worth it	00:40
+perlDreamer	perhaps not	00:40
+perlDreamer	;)	00:40
SynQ	perhaps a less painful ritual then	00:41
SynQ	breakfast at the come back in	00:41
+perlDreamer	there ya go	00:41
SynQ	french toast	00:41
+perlDreamer	while we plan WUC 2010 in Melbourne	00:41
SynQ	good idea	00:41
SynQ	it's just 24 hours of flying	00:42
SynQ	I might just test my theories on 'bored during a flight'	00:43
+perlDreamer	but there's lots of people to talk to	00:43
+perlDreamer	and think of all the hacking you can do!	00:43
SynQ	very true	00:43
SynQ	and we get to enjoy (wink wink) the speed of webgui.org from australia	00:43
SynQ	which is horrid	00:44
-!- mode/#webgui [+v SynQ] by preaction		00:44
+SynQ	oeh	00:44
+SynQ	did someone very kind just put a medal on my chest?	00:45
+SynQ	thank you preaction	00:45
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+SynQ	time for bed	00:57
+SynQ	night	00:57
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10152 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Shop/CartItem.pm: Fix bugs when trying to handle a Sku that no longer exists in the db.	00:58
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+perlDreamer	Do I still have time, Haarg?	01:02
@Haarg	yes	01:03
+perlDreamer	committed	01:05
+perlDreamer	also, modernperlbooks.com has an interesting series of blog posts about software releases	01:05
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@preaction	sounds like old-hat to me. everybody knows the first couple stable releases are anything but	01:14
@preaction	but if we don't call them stable, they'll never be used and tried and bugs found	01:14
+perlDreamer	this is true	01:15
+perlDreamer	I thought it talked more about the metric for a release	01:15
+perlDreamer	not playing games with fixing or labeling bugs	01:15
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CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10153 /WebGUI/ (9 files in 9 dirs):	01:29
CIA-38	WebGUI: Add a creation date to the Cart.	01:29
CIA-38	WebGUI: Use that date to expire carts older than an interval, via a new workflow.	01:29
CIA-38	WebGUI: Config file changes, tests, i18n.	01:29
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10154 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/lib/WebGUI/Shop/CartItem.pm: Backporting CartItem fixes for trashed Sku's.	01:29
+perlDreamer	got time for another one, Haarg?	01:29
@Haarg	yes	01:29
@Haarg	there's a new feature i'm going to try to slip in to this release, so it will be a while longer	01:30
@Haarg	new feature to go along with the rss stuff	01:30
+perlDreamer	cool	01:30
+perlDreamer	I found a leaky test	01:30
+perlDreamer	which was causing the earlier weirdness with NotifyAboutLowStock	01:31
@Haarg	ah	01:31
@Haarg	cool	01:31
@Haarg	i wasn't able to duplicate that one	01:31
+perlDreamer	it's random	01:31
+perlDreamer	depends on whether or not the test runs before or after the ShipDriver test	01:31
+perlDreamer	I think	01:31
+perlDreamer	in any case, ShipDriver/FlatRate doesn't leak cartItems anymore	01:31
+perlDreamer	okay, I'm clear again	01:42
@Haarg	i really have to figure out how to prevent automatic brace matching with this latest version of vim perl-support	01:43
+perlDreamer	:se nomatch?	01:44
@Haarg	is that for brace highlighting?	01:46
@Haarg	it keeps adding ending braces all the time and then i have to remove them	01:47
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+perlDreamer	that's for highlighting	01:48
@Haarg	yeah, highlighting is fine	01:48
+perlDreamer	there's one that will add braces automatically for you?	01:48
+perlDreamer	that doesn't sound good	01:48
@Haarg	perl-support is a plugin i have installed	01:48
@Haarg	it does some nice things, but automatically adding braces is really annoying	01:48
+perlDreamer	yeah	01:48
+perlDreamer	will you be talking about your vim config in patspam's panel session?	01:49
@Haarg	nah	01:49
@Haarg	i don't have anything interesting set up with vim	01:50
@Haarg	feels kind of silly adding RSS/RDF/Atom to i18n	01:52
+perlDreamer	yeah	01:53
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10155 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/t/Shop/ShipDriver/FlatRate.t: Fix a leaky test.	02:05
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10156 /WebGUI/t/Shop/ShipDriver/FlatRate.t: Forward port leaky test fix with cleaning up the cart.	02:05
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10157 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (9 files in 9 dirs): Backport Cart creationDate, and RemoveOldCart.	02:05
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10158 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt: Put bug fix in the right place.	02:05
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, with commit 10159, all the tests in HEAD run clean for me	02:49
SDuensin	Go Go Unit Tests!	02:50
@Haarg	thanks perlDreamer	02:50
+perlDreamer	good luck on the WRE :)	02:50
@Haarg	i keep finding little things i need to clean up	02:56
@Haarg	i'd leave them be, but they involve the upgrade proceedure	02:58
+perlDreamer	do you have a list?	02:59
+perlDreamer	iow, want to offload something?	03:00
@Haarg	should be done in a minute	03:00
+perlDreamer	my son peter is going to have kittens	03:01
+perlDreamer	I just found this: http://www.metro-goingplaces.org/bast/	03:01
+perlDreamer	It's a google-map based metro transit planner	03:01
+perlDreamer	the goal is to expand the system while staying in the budget	03:01
@preaction	Veridian Dynamics is perhaps the most evil company EVER. Rizen, we're slipping!	03:02
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10159 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Help/Asset_RSSFromParent.pm: Remove Help for the RSSFromParent asset.	03:07
@Haarg	arg	03:10
@Haarg	statesToInclude/statusToInclude is really annoying	03:10
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@Haarg	i'm probably a bit crazy to make these changes immediately before releasing	03:14
+perlDreamer	let me know when you have it committed, and I'll rerun the suite here	03:15
@Haarg	committed	03:16
@Haarg	running the tests now	03:16
@Haarg	failures already	03:16
+perlDreamer	URL capitalization changed?	03:18
@Haarg	i must have messed something up with my changes to asset->update	03:19
+perlDreamer	it must be the conditional check	03:23
+perlDreamer	because the data pointer is pretty inocuous	03:23
@Haarg	properties became property	03:25
@Haarg	line 2343	03:25
+perlDreamer	maybe I need to add Asset.t in my coverage goals for 2009	03:27
+perlDreamer	I've been focusing on Session/*.pm, User and Group	03:27
+perlDreamer	but that only got caught by 1 test	03:27
@Haarg	unfortunately, the thing i added that for isn't working	03:30
+perlDreamer	I thought you were trying to save some typing :)	03:31
@Haarg	the allowEmpty flag though	03:31
+perlDreamer	maybe it needs more tests?	03:32
@Haarg	probably	03:33
@Haarg	if this didn't impact the upgrade stuff i would have left it for later	03:33
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+perlDreamer	clean run again	03:36
+perlDreamer	you going to commit the "properties" fix, or do you want me to?	03:37
CIA-38	WebGUI: graham * r10160 /WebGUI/ (7 files in 6 dirs): improving RSSCapable upgrade procedure, adding feed header selection	03:37
@Haarg	i'll get it	03:37
+perlDreamer	I'll start an i18n run, then	03:37
@Haarg	fix committed	03:48
@Haarg	perlDreamer, any reason to hold off on the release?	03:59
+perlDreamer	the i18n run is almost finished	03:59
+perlDreamer	and there are no failures yet	03:59
+perlDreamer	at this point, I'd say go ahead	04:00
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+perlDreamer	bio break	04:07
CIA-38	WebGUI: graham * r10161 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (Form/List.pm Asset.pm Form/Control.pm AssetAspect/RssFeed.pm): fix allowEmpty and bugs it caused	04:08
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+perlDreamer	i18n run finished clean	04:32
* perlDreamer heads to church		04:32
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CIA-38	WebGUI: graham * r10162 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/AssetAspect/RssFeed.pm: set rss feed image link to be a url field	04:37
CIA-38	WebGUI: graham * r10163 /WebGUI/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.7.2 release	04:37
CIA-38	WebGUI: graham * r10164 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.7.1-7.7.2.pl: fix upgrade for if RSSFromParent is missing	04:37
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CIA-38	WebGUI: graham * r10165 /releases/WebGUI_7.7.2-beta: Release 7.7.2-beta	05:03
CIA-38	WebGUI: graham * r10166 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): preparing for 7.7.3 dev	05:03
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+perlmonkey2	sometimes HTML::Template just seems so constricting.	06:06
@preaction	it is. try Template::Toolkit	06:13
+perlmonkey2	is TT2 something that can be used in a core wobject, preaction?	06:15
+perlmonkey2	if it is, I'm going to hit myself with a hammer, cause I'd never ever have used H::T :P	06:15
@preaction	ahh	06:15
@preaction	now i understand what you're asking	06:15
@preaction	that's a question you might have to ask the higher-ups	06:15
@preaction	we haven't yet moved to TT officially, but that move is in the works	06:15
+perlmonkey2	heh, I'm pretty sure it is H::T only	06:15
+perlmonkey2	oh sweet	06:16
+perlmonkey2	okay, I'll run it by da' boss	06:16
+perlmonkey2	Think this is a sign I'm doing something wrong, or just have a really complex set of data?	06:18
+perlmonkey2	_loadAnswerIntoSummary(\%{summaries->{sections}->[$sectionIndex]->{questions}->[$questionIndex]->{answers}->[++$answerIndex]},$response);	06:18
@preaction	that is a sign you're doing something wrong	06:19
@preaction	split that up. my $section = $sections->{sectionIndex}; my $question... my $answer...	06:19
+perlmonkey2	sections have questions which ahve answers, and it has to be in a single hash to be given to a template.	06:21
+perlmonkey2	But I'm not sure if that means there isn't still a way around it.	06:21
+perlmonkey2	reponse is a flat data structure though with section and question duplicated in each node until they change.....	06:22
+perlmonkey2	I'm pretty sure this is a major design flaw in having multiple ways to index objects throughout the survey. I think it broke down when I needed a way to indentify DOM objects by their survey object address.	06:23
+perlmonkey2	Maybe I need to read some more Higher Order Perl and I'll find magic.	06:24
+patspam	magic++	06:29
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+patspam	dang the curse of console.log()s left behind in js source	08:06
CIA-38	WebGUI: patspam * r10167 /WebGUI/www/extras/wobject/Survey/dd.js: Converted firebug console.log into YAHOO.log to unbreak Survey DnD	08:13
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+MrHairgrease	Some guy in a rain coat told me TT is gonna become a part of webgui	17:22
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+bartjol	yeah I alos heard that rumour gonzen	17:22
* MrHairgrease has the pluggable tax stuff working!		17:22
+MrHairgrease	w00t	17:22
+bartjol	and since this weekend will be the last that I have some time left, I think metroman part 2 will be coming out	17:27
+MrHairgrease	yes!	17:32
+MrHairgrease	I cannot wait to read it	17:32
* MrHairgrease is a hardcore metroman fan		17:32
+bartjol	cool mostly you need some continuity before getting fans	17:34
+MrHairgrease	true	17:35
+MrHairgrease	oh	17:35
+MrHairgrease	what sees my eye?	17:35
+MrHairgrease	time to get my key	17:35
+bartjol	indeed	17:35
+bartjol	I hope it's a nice key	17:35
+MrHairgrease	I hope so too	17:36
+MrHairgrease	laterrrr!	17:36
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@Haarg	preaction, on this bug http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/10093	18:09
@Haarg	where are you seeing that?	18:10
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+perlmonkey2	hah, MrHairgrease...raincoat++	18:18
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+bartjol	perlmonkey2: MrHairgrease is long gone	18:27
+perlmonkey2	heh, my 9" netbook just arrived....he's just a little guy.	18:32
+perlDreamer	is that for reading documentation?	18:33
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: well, it's not mine, I got it for my dad for his birthday. But I'm going ot play with it a bit and see if I want my own. But I'm pretty sure that running gnometerminal on it will be just fine.	18:34
SDuensin	perlmonkey2 - I prepped a 9" netbook for my dad recently. Man it was hard to give back. :-)	18:37
+bartjol	y'all know what time it is!	18:37
* SDuensin thinks it's 5 O'Clock Somewhere.		18:38
+bartjol	17:40 even	18:38
+perlmonkey2	SDuensin: yeah, It is really really nice. Don't think the screen will be an issue, although I'm thinking I'll really have to tighten up my typing to be happen with it.	18:38
+perlDreamer	it says 17:42 here, that's even later!	18:38
@Haarg	perlDreamer, thanks for helping with bugs/tests yesterday	18:38
+bartjol	darn, well I probably won't be here until I'm a house owner	18:39
* SDuensin wants the 9" Dell you can load OS X on. :-D		18:39
+perlDreamer	you're welcome, Haarg	18:39
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+perlDreamer	after reading this: http://blog.patspam.com/2009/the-curse-of-consolelog	18:41
* perlDreamer thinks it's time to start writing guardband tests for JS		18:41
+perlDreamer	but that will have to happen later	18:41
+perlDreamer	I've got a gig at my church for part of today, so I'll see y'all this afternoon	18:42
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+perlmonkey2	Hmm, I can not type on a 9" dell keyboard.	19:19
SDuensin	You get used to them.	19:20
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CIA-38	WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r10168 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey/ResponseJSON.pm: Survey summary code, intermediate check in. Zero changes in function.	20:33
CIA-38	WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r10169 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey.pm: Survey summary code, intermediate check in. Zero changes in function.	20:33
CIA-38	WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r10170 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.7.2-7.7.3.pl: Adding Survey columns	20:33
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+perlmonkey2	Haarg: I don't think I could trudge through this template without wgd. You deserve like a nobel prize or something.	21:43
@Haarg	heh	21:43
@Haarg	well i'm glad it's useful	21:44
* SDuensin needs to learn wgd.		21:47
@Haarg	it should be pretty easy to get started with	21:47
@Haarg	and if it isn't let me know what gives you trouble so i can work on it	21:48
SDuensin	I can do that. :-)	21:48
+perlmonkey2	SDuensin: it's quite remarkable just how much there is to it.	21:48
* SDuensin has been off trying to learn another huge Perl program... eBox!		21:49
SDuensin	Perl is gonna be the death of me. :-)	21:49
diakopter	or the birth.	21:50
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CIA-38	WebGUI: graham * r10171 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Form/ (5 files): fix for keyword control only initially showing a single keyword	23:10
CIA-38	WebGUI: graham * r10172 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/AssetLineage.pm: setParent shouldn't check user permissions, only www_ methods should	23:10
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@preaction	I think the Edit User screen for Admins should have a "Friends" tab, no?	23:40
* perlDreamer thinks that it should just have link to the User's account		23:40
+perlDreamer	Account, even	23:41
SDuensin	Admins have no friends.	23:45
@preaction	well, then we'd have to fix Account so that Admins are able to edit things using that interface	23:45
+perlDreamer	sure	23:45
@preaction	but i don't thnk that's the plan. Admin interface will always be what it is	23:45
@preaction	i mean, it might make the Account code too complex to also be adding Administrator overrides into everything	23:45
+perlDreamer	but isn't it easier to add overrides into existing code rather than duplicating it in another place?	23:46
@preaction	the override could be deeper in the API, we might not even need to change the Account code much	23:47
@preaction	but still, it's something we'll have to wait for 8.0 to consider. there's some API cleanup we need to do on Account	23:48
@preaction	and some expansion to make for easier plugin making	23:48
+perlDreamer	did you see my RFE about JSON and the Account system?	23:48
@preaction	not yet no	23:51
+perlDreamer	I think we should do that change sooner, rather than later	23:51
+perlDreamer	with no JSON interface, it's hard to build server-side paginated YUI DataTables in Account	23:51
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: looks like it has been approved and assigned difficulty of 1.	23:59
--- Day changed Sat Apr 04 2009
+perlmonkey2	why not just implement your prototype?	00:00
+perlDreamer	nope, it hasn't been rated yet, nor approved	00:00
+perlDreamer	ya gotta check the little history section in the lower right	00:00
+perlDreamer	by default, all karma ranks are set to 1	00:00
+perlmonkey2	whups, good to know :p	00:00
+perlDreamer	it's a bug in the helpdesk	00:00
+perlDreamer	I know, I know	00:01
+perlDreamer	the irony of a bug in helpdesk software, but it is what it is	00:01
@preaction	a continue block only runs if there's another iteration of a for block to run, right?	00:03
+perlDreamer	I think it will work with a while block, too	00:03
@preaction	right, but my continue block was running even though the for block was on its last iteration :P	00:04
+perlDreamer	perldoc perlsyn	00:04
+perlDreamer	the continue block runs right before the conditional is evaluated	00:04
+perlDreamer	even if you use next	00:04
@preaction	THAT'S THE LAST TIME I EVER ASK YOU FOR HELP	00:04
@preaction	oh, damnit	00:04
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@preaction	okay. i need a tool that will go through a bunch of sites, perform a find and replace inside of a template	00:14
@preaction	packages do not work because these sites all have individual modifications since the packages were deployed between them	00:15
@preaction	the templates may or may not have the same assetId	00:15
@preaction	i would prefer something like a diff tool. perhaps I could make a diff from one template revision and then apply that diff to other template revisions?	00:15
+perlDreamer	how complex is the find and replace?	00:18
+perlDreamer	because you're applying a diff to a db column	00:19
@preaction	wgdev assetDiff create -r1 <assetId> # -r1 = changes from 2 revisions back to one revision back	00:19
@preaction	then wgdev assetDiff apply <filename> <Something...>	00:19
@Haarg	what kind of changes would this be doing?	00:21
@preaction	altering data inside of an asset, fields and such	00:22
@Haarg	you can have wgd edit use an arbitrary command, so you could have it use perl to do a regex on all of the specified assets	00:22
@preaction	oooh, also nice	00:22
@Haarg	there's also the export and import commands	00:23
@preaction	perlDreamer mentioned an export and an import. perhaps if a diff can be made from the export, then there could be a command that will take that diff and apply it	00:23
@preaction	though that would assume the export is well-formed, so maybe not	00:23
@preaction	i'll look at the edit one first	00:23
@Haarg	the import/export use the same format as edit	00:24
@preaction	anything to make this easier. i think there's about 14 sites i have to check and change	00:24
+perlDreamer	have a revision differ for WebGUI would be awesome	00:24
@Haarg	log and diff commands would be good things to add to wgd	00:24
+perlDreamer	log?	00:25
@preaction	14 sites where only a few words may differ between them. i've tried user education but to no avail, so i've just been charging them for all the time it takes me. i'd like to stop having to do that	00:25
@Haarg	just to list revisions on an asset	00:25
+perlDreamer	oh yeah	00:25
@Haarg	with the version tag info	00:25
+perlDreamer	that's good, too	00:25
+perlDreamer	is the News on the participate page of webgui.org broke because of spectre, or something else?	00:29
@preaction	i suspect because of new RSS problems	00:29
@preaction	we've got an RssFeed aspect now, might have some bugs need working out	00:30
@preaction	is there a wgd install guide somewhere?	00:30
@Haarg	should be installable just like a normal cpan dist	00:30
@preaction	i just pull from the git repo and run "perl Build.pl; make; make install" right?	00:30
@preaction	oh, you mean "cpan App::Wgd"?	00:31
@Haarg	no, i mean what you said	00:31
@preaction	ok	00:31
@Haarg	./Build && ./Build install	00:31
@Haarg	you can also check wgd -h and wgd config -h	00:32
@preaction	is there a "default" webgui_root and webgui_config value?	00:37
@Haarg	for root it checks in order: command line switches, environment variables, config file values, searching upward from current directory	00:38
@Haarg	if there is only a single config file, it is used for the config	00:38
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10173 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Help/Asset_Post.pm): Fix double variables showing up in thread and post help.	00:38
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10174 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Help/Asset_Post.pm): Backport help fix.	00:38
@Haarg	otherwise it needs to be specified	00:38
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@preaction	okay, so if i'm in my WebGUI root directory, it works	00:41
@preaction	but if i'm in /data and my webgui root is /data/WebGUI, it doesn't	00:41
@Haarg	it won't find it automatically, no	00:41
@preaction	k, np	00:42
@preaction	dunno why it took me this long to finally start using this :p	00:42
+perlDreamer	it's like chocolate	00:42
@preaction	bitter at first and then the greatest thing you've ever done?	00:43
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+perlDreamer	after using wgd edit template_url, wgd package --upgrade template_url a few times, I was sold	00:43
+perlDreamer	preaction: there's nothing bad to say about it	00:44
+perlDreamer	it's creamy goodness will subsume all arguments against	00:44
+perlDreamer	and it's antioxidants are good for you	00:44
@preaction	oh, but i like the bitter chocolate!	00:44
@preaction	80% cacao represent!	00:45
@Haarg	i do need to improve the user docs for getting started some	00:45
* perlDreamer recommends short blog posts		00:45
@preaction	perhaps the Build could try to autoconfigure or ask for some values from the user	00:45
@preaction	yes, blog posts would be good too	00:45
@preaction	EXPOSURE! everybody should be using this!	00:45
@Haarg	yeah, i do need to do that	00:45
@preaction	i mean, i know how you might feel about too much stuff to do to waste time on things like blog posts, but	00:46
@Haarg	i could put stuff in build, but that excludes people who don't want to install it like that	00:46
@Haarg	since there is also the option of the single file version	00:46
@Haarg	that has no installation	00:46
@Haarg	finally have a script to automate posting on sourceforge	00:58
@Haarg	that site is incredibly painful to work with	00:58
@Haarg	of course, freshmeat just changed their site, breaking the api they had for posting to it	01:01
@Haarg	so i have to wait for them to make a new api before i can automate that	01:01
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+perlDreamer	hm, must be 5:00pm in Wisconsin	01:10
daviddelikat	any body have any thoughts about where to start looking with this:	01:16
daviddelikat	env WEBGUI_CONFIG=/data/WebGUI/etc/localhost.conf perl Session/CheckClient.t	01:16
daviddelikat	Segmentation fault	01:16
+perlDreamer	does CheckClient pull in new modules?	01:17
+perlDreamer	which OS are you running this on, and which perl?	01:17
daviddelikat	is centos	01:18
daviddelikat	the tests used to run.	01:18
+perlDreamer	what changed?	01:18
daviddelikat	it should at least ~say~ /something/ shouldn't it?	01:18
+perlDreamer	not if there's a problem with a module	01:18
daviddelikat	bt what kind of problem causes perl to segvg?	01:19
daviddelikat	segv.	01:19
daviddelikat	no typeee too good	01:19
+perlDreamer	preaction: if I build a YUI button with pure javascript, how do I get it to render into some HTML?	01:26
@preaction	perlDreamer: if i remember, you give it a container element	01:27
@preaction	and then call .render() and it should render itself in the container	01:27
+perlDreamer	okay-doke, I'll try that	01:27
+perlDreamer	we'll see how well that plays inside of DataTable formatter	01:27
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2: Template Toolkit is only used by heffalumps and woozels	01:33
+perlDreamer	hm, I get a link, but no button	01:44
@preaction	yeah, that's why I hate YUI buttons	01:46
@preaction	all those "links" around the datatable in the edit mode are really YUI buttons...	01:47
+perlDreamer	maybe they don't work right inside datatables?	01:49
* perlDreamer is going to try some other things		01:50
@preaction	the links i'm referring to are outside the datatable	01:50
@preaction	i think it has to do with where the class=yui-skin-sam is located	01:50
@preaction	but i don't know	01:50
+perlDreamer	well, the buttons I'm trying to make are inside cells of the datatable	01:50
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: you are a heffalump-ist obviously.	01:50
+perlDreamer	well, I'd be pro TT if it wasn't written by jagulars	01:51
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+perlDreamer	oh, and the buttons render without a .render	01:53
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+perlmonkey2	yay, I've got an ajax call that needs to reload the entire page.	02:18
+perlmonkey2	this is going to require some stupid clockwork.	02:18
* perlmonkey2 goes fishing		02:18
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+perlDreamer	preaction, I got a button to render, but it wasn't easy	02:40
+perlDreamer	I had to manually put in the whole control HTML sequence	02:40
+perlDreamer	never mind, I lied	02:41
+perlDreamer	the button still isn't created	02:41
+perlDreamer	it just looks right	02:41
+perlDreamer	what if...	02:47
+perlDreamer	I mean, since this is called inside of a formatter, what if the formatting hasn't been applied yet?	02:48
+perlDreamer	which means that when I try to call new Button, it doesn't do anything	02:48
+perlDreamer	since the thing I told it to make a button out of doesn't exist yet!	02:48
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CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10175 /WebGUI/t/Group.t: Add a few tests for Group coverage.	06:12
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CIA-38	WebGUI: translation * r10176 /translations/German/German/ (4 files): Update from translation server	11:35
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CIA-38	WebGUI: yung * r10177 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): added Carousel wobject	20:28
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+perlDreamer	preaction: are you awake?	20:38
daviddelikat	perlDreamer: can you give me a good example of form processing in WG?	20:41
+perlDreamer	$session->form->process('variableName', 'formType');	20:41
+perlDreamer	What exactly are you looking for?	20:42
daviddelikat	how does it handle invalid data?	20:42
+perlDreamer	well, it depends	20:43
+perlDreamer	several of the forms do post processing on their inputs	20:44
+perlDreamer	for example, the Phone Form plugin restricts valid characters	20:44
+perlDreamer	if it isn't handled in the Form plugin, you have to do it yourself	20:44
+perlDreamer	what kind of form processing problem are you having?	20:45
daviddelikat	sorry, I was checking on an install...	20:48
daviddelikat	there is no validaton on my fm	20:48
daviddelikat	form	20:48
daviddelikat	I only have three things to validate	20:49
daviddelikat	non-empty strings, integers and a URL	20:49
daviddelikat	sorry four -- a valid image	20:50
+perlDreamer	there are plugins for integers and URLs that validate	20:50
+perlDreamer	non-empty strings you must do yourself	20:50
+perlDreamer	as for the image, what's valid in an image?	20:50
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+perlDreamer	is it the presence?	20:50
daviddelikat	what do I use to post a message to the user?	20:50
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daviddelikat	just needs to be a valid image file	20:51
+perlDreamer	if this for www_edit?	20:51
daviddelikat	where do validation messags go?	20:51
daviddelikat	no just www_view	20:51
+perlDreamer	I would modify www_view to accept a parameter, an array_ref of error messages	20:52
+perlDreamer	if the data fails to validate, then do not save the data, call www_view with the list of error messages	20:52
+perlDreamer	then add template variable to www_view to display the errors	20:53
daviddelikat	ok	20:53
+perlDreamer	brb	21:02
+perlDreamer	back	21:53
+perlDreamer	time to do yardwork, later everyone	22:20
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CIA-38	WebGUI: translation * r10178 /translations/German/German/Asset_Survey.pm: Update from translation server	00:22
+perlmonkey2	Think it is poor form to forward to this: $self->url."?func=showSummary"	00:24
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CIA-38	WebGUI: translation * r10179 /translations/German/German/Asset_Thingy.pm: Update from translation server	00:53
CIA-38	WebGUI: translation * r10180 /translations/German/German/Asset_Sku.pm: Update from translation server	00:53
CIA-38	WebGUI: translation * r10181 /translations/German/German/PassiveAnalytics.pm: Update from translation server	00:53
CIA-38	WebGUI: translation * r10182 /translations/German/German/Asset_Shelf.pm: Update from translation server	00:53
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+perlmonkey2	hmm, setting the javascript "location.href = response.url;" to $self->get('url') doesn't work. seems the relative url gets appended to the current address instead of the hostname	03:41
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+perlmonkey2	nope, somehow the code got borked.	06:03
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CIA-38	WebGUI: yung * r10183 /WebGUI/ (5 files in 5 dirs): Carousel bugfix, templates and i18n	19:22
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CIA-38	WebGUI: yung * r10184 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (Help/Asset_Carousel.pm i18n/English/Asset_Carousel.pm): Adding help for Carousel wobject	20:25
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+perlmonkey2	yay, my house caught on fire, lots of technical issues, had to add new hooks, but the survey now has summaries for users in quiz mode.	22:40
nuba	what, you mean real fire in your real house?	22:45
CIA-38	WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r10185 /WebGUI/ (7 files in 7 dirs): Summaries added to the survey	22:52
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+patspam	Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org	02:09
+patspam	After you ask, update the wiki?	02:09
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+perlmonkey2	nuba: yeah, a real fire.	04:00
+perlmonkey2	Just sitting in the living room working and the wall goes whump, then smoke starts pouring out of the fan dimmer switch.	04:00
+perlmonkey2	So I run to the breaker, flip the master, grab a saw from the garage and a fire extuinguisher, saw open the wall to check for fire, but there was just smoldering wires. Switch was just a bad switch. But what was scary is that the 20 amp breaker didn't flip.	04:01
nuba	whoa that sucks	04:02
nuba	and sounds like a big mess	04:02
nuba	good thing you were around to notice it	04:03
+perlmonkey2	no kidding, if we wouldn't have been home, we could have lost the whole house.	04:04
nuba	these things in a empty house can go awry	04:04
+perlmonkey2	But it isn't too big of a mess. Just a small hole around the switch. And I'm calling for an electrician to rewire it and check the rest of the house tomorrow :P	04:04
+perlmonkey2	patspam: ping	04:05
+patspam	perlmonkey2: pong	04:07
+patspam	holy crapola about your fire perlmonkey!	04:07
+perlmonkey2	patspam: heh, fun times.	04:08
nuba	we have some component in our apartment's wiring called a nominal residual current (DR) that detects realy small variations in the current (30mA) so that power is cut at right away when a person or animal gets shocked or something like a short-circuit happens	04:09
+patspam	I can just see you.. should i snip the blue wire, or the green wire..	04:09
nuba	you probably have these there too, check with your eletrician, i know siemens has it and it should be priced at about $50 or so	04:10
+perlmonkey2	nuba: sweet, I'll have to check into that.	04:12
nuba	i think you need 2 or 3 times the capacity of a breaker to make it flip, but i can be wrong on that	04:13
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CIA-38	WebGUI: daviddelikat * r10186 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (Session/Env.pm i18n/English/Asset_AdSku.pm Asset/Sku/Ad.pm):	08:00
CIA-38	WebGUI: comment out the ip filter from clientCheck (in Session::Env)	08:00
CIA-38	WebGUI: added form validation to AdSku ( with internationalized messages )	08:00
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CIA-38	WebGUI: patspam * r10187 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Added Carousel wobject icon	11:02
CIA-38	WebGUI: patspam * r10188 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/packages-7.7.3/root_import_carousel_carousel-default.wgpkg:	11:02
CIA-38	WebGUI: Updated Carousel javascript so that it works with multiple instances on	11:02
CIA-38	WebGUI: the same page	11:02
LTR_bob	The 2009 schedule is online: http://www.plainblack.com/wuc/schedule	11:42
LTR_bob	De WebGUI::CRUD presentatie naast de mijne had ik ook wel heen gewild :P	11:50
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CIA-38	WebGUI: translation * r10189 /translations/Croatian/ (8 files in 2 dirs): Update from translation server	17:41
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topsub	I have a question, I have a file upload in the www_editVariant inside my custom product. The client is trying to upload a html file. but it seems webgui changes it to a txt file. Is there a way i can stop this?	17:59
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+perlDreamer	morning, folks	18:12
@tavisto	good morning perlDreamer	18:15
topsub	morning	18:16
+perlDreamer	hey, topsub! Haven't heard from you in a long time.	18:17
topsub	hehe ya.. forgetting to get on IRC. come into work and just jump to work	18:17
topsub	pd, did you happen to see my question?	18:19
+perlDreamer	no, I'm sorry I didn't.	18:19
topsub	i have join / hide message turned off	18:19
+perlDreamer	I came in at 8:17	18:19
topsub	I have a question, I have a file upload in the www_editVariant inside my custom product. The client is trying to upload a html file. but it seems webgui changes it to a txt file. Is there a way i can stop this?	18:19
+perlDreamer	that is an XSS prevention measure in Storage.pm	18:20
topsub	thats what i thought it would be	18:20
+perlDreamer	you can work around it by using a ZipArchive	18:20
topsub	client is trying to upload an HTML page to redirect users	18:20
+perlDreamer	Is using the Redirect Asset an option?	18:21
topsub	We have custom products the client can add to a system, then the can add "Brochure" just happens this Brochure is another website url	18:21
+perlDreamer	I see. That makes sense	18:21
topsub	So he is kinding using it in a way we didn't build it for. if that mkes sense	18:21
topsub	we mean for him to just upload pdfs	18:21
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topsub	are you saying if he zips up the file and then uploads it, it will work?	18:22
+perlDreamer	no	18:22
topsub	so really it seems this could be a change request	18:22
+perlDreamer	yes	18:22
* perlDreamer was thinking that there was a Product feature for remote URLs		18:22
+perlDreamer	but what the customer wants is different still	18:23
topsub	ya.. thanks a lot pd!	18:23
+perlDreamer	and the Product only really supports "local" URLs for related products, and accessories.	18:23
topsub	i think the client knows he is pushing how we built it.	18:24
+perlDreamer	well, at this point I've pretty concretely concluded that you cannot add a YUI button to a DataTable using only a custom formatter.	18:25
+perlDreamer	it needs additional magic	18:25
+perlmonkey2	Any idea when we move the YUI to 2.7?	18:26
+perlDreamer	no clue, maybe preaction or Haarg have ?an idea	18:27
+perlmonkey2	Charts has some pretty major bug fixes, and data table even gets some love.	18:27
@Haarg	there hasn't been any discussion of that, but i'll ask jt tomorrow	18:28
+perlmonkey2	thanks Haarg	18:28
@Haarg	it should be fine to upgrade in the 7.7 betas at some point	18:29
@Haarg	although there will be some work involved	18:29
+perlmonkey2	Haarg: what kind of issues do you foresee?	18:30
@Haarg	i know at least a few places we're using -beta modules	18:30
@Haarg	which will likely be stable in 2.7 or could have their api changed	18:31
+perlDreamer	yes	18:33
+perlDreamer	I think element went stable in 2.7	18:34
+perlDreamer	maybe we need a test for that	18:34
+perlDreamer	picks up calls to the extras macro, and see if the files actually resolve or not	18:34
@Haarg	sounds like wgd needs a grep command	18:40
+perlDreamer	or an ack command? :)	18:40
@Haarg	something like that	18:41
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+perlmonkey2	oh sweet....YUI3.x has the seed object. Costs 7k, but dynamically loads all libraries required for any objects you create.	18:49
CIA-38	WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r10190 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Survey.pm: Survey quiz mode sentence is not a question.	19:02
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+perlmonkey2	What about a View side paradigm shift. Where templates become more of simple scaffolding on which to hang JS widgets. Almost all View code is removed from the server side and placed entirely on the client?	19:17
+perlDreamer	sounds expensive	19:21
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: More so than this hybrid of template and YUI code?	19:22
+perlmonkey2	Which half the View logic on the server and half on the client?	19:22
+perlDreamer	why does an article need JS?	19:22
+perlmonkey2	handling comments?	19:22
* SDuensin recommends Cappuccino for major paradigm shifting. :-P		19:23
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: and that seems like one of the view wobjects that is not interactive.	19:25
+perlDreamer	that's because it's only supposed to display static content	19:25
+perlmonkey2	Plus it appears that an ajax call to display data on an already rendered page, occurs much faster than a GET/POST.	19:26
+perlmonkey2	full page rerender.	19:26
+perlDreamer	I wouldn't argue that AJAX can be faster than a full page reload	19:28
+perlDreamer	I just question whether or not we need to drop templating in favor of AJAX for all content shown to the user	19:28
+perlDreamer	but maybe I'm misinterpreting what you meant earlier	19:28
+perlmonkey2	Anyways, did I mention I was attacked my a dozen velociraptors yesterday?	19:28
+perlDreamer	did they have lasers on their heads?	19:29
+perlmonkey2	I'm not saying drop templates, just make an effort to move more of the VIEW logic into the client.	19:29
+perlDreamer	maybe I need a concrete example of what you're talking about.	19:29
+perlmonkey2	No, I was plowing a field and their the mighty decendents of the raptors were swarming the field for the field mice who no longer had any concealment. One of the coolest things I've ever experienced. One just hovered over my head for a bit, so close I might have been able to touch him, starring at the back of the tractor (it was really windy, so one direction they could hover without moving).	19:30
@preaction	i don't mean to dash hopes here, but pure JS websites are currently universally considered a Bad Idea	19:31
+perlDreamer	that sounds way cool, perlmonkey2	19:31
@preaction	by most of the older hands at least. give it some times and you'll become one of them too	19:31
+perlmonkey2	heh	19:31
@preaction	there are limits in the technology that make important edge cases impossible to overcome	19:32
+perlDreamer	do screen readers have javascript built into them yet?	19:32
+perlmonkey2	I'm not saying don't use templating anymore, just move more of the logic to the client.	19:32
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: YUI has some sort of freakishly cool screen reader widget.	19:33
+perlmonkey2	at least the demo I just saw for 3.x was sweet.	19:33
@preaction	i'm saying that's the problem, the more logic you put into the client, the more you have to rely on standards and things not in your control (that the client has these capabilities, or that they're the same as another client)	19:33
+perlmonkey2	ah	19:33
@preaction	if we could control the client, we could do a lot of fun stuff	19:34
+perlDreamer	in other words, if everybody used Firefox, our lives would be a lot easier?	19:34
+perlmonkey2	heh	19:34
@preaction	but as it is, we're still dealing with IE6 bull-excrement	19:34
@preaction	anyway, bbl, someone else can have the soapbox for now	19:34
* deafferret snatches it, runs		19:41
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+perlDreamer	crud, now there's on soap	21:08
+perlDreamer	no soap, either	21:08
CIA-38	WebGUI: yung * r10191 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/www/extras/wobject/Matrix/matrix.js: fixed a matrix search/compare button javascript problem	21:41
CIA-38	WebGUI: yung * r10192 /WebGUI/www/extras/wobject/Matrix/matrix.js: fixed a matrix search/compare button problem	21:41
@preaction	soap, there's no crud	21:45
+perlDreamer	I beg to differ	21:50
+perlDreamer	WebGUI has crud, but no soap	21:50
+perlDreamer	and if you've ever been around perlDreamer after he goes running...	21:51
+perlDreamer	soap is not an option	21:51
+perlDreamer	when ya come home, and even the dog won't say hi to ya...	21:52
+perlDreamer	well, 'nuff said.	21:52
* perlDreamer goes running, and then soaping		21:52
* deafferret eats a block of cream cheese		21:57
+perlmonkey2	trying to sex up the survey summaries a bit. There isn't really a good way to show section, question, and answer data in a single datatable, is there?	22:20
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CIA-38	WebGUI: yung * r10193 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (4 files in 4 dirs): partial solution for rfe #9965	23:05
CIA-38	WebGUI: graham * r10194 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/_upgrade.skeleton: unset package flag recursively during upgrades	23:05
@preaction	heh, clever	23:12
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Mech422	blarggle	23:57
+perlDreamer	Mech422: care to expand on that?	23:59
--- Day changed Tue Apr 07 2009
Mech422	nothing special - just monday :-P	00:00
Mech422	trying to figure out what going on	00:00
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Mech422	Can you 'layer' content regions in wG ? for instance can I have a template with a user editable header/footer areay that is used to display user editable 'pages' ?	00:40
+perlDreamer	sounds like a dashboard	00:43
@preaction	yes, but how much work you need to do depends on how well you can explain how you want it to work	00:43
+perlDreamer	hah, beat you, preaction!	00:43
@preaction	yes, but i'm more technically correct!	00:43
@preaction	also you stole my soap	00:44
+perlDreamer	no, I used the shampoo on my pits	00:44
+perlDreamer	we need to get deafferret and have him return the box	00:44
Mech422	I am recasting http://osc3.template-help.com/joomla_17569/ for use in wG	00:45
Mech422	I'd like the theme to be used for all pages of a particular type etc etc	00:46
Mech422	but I'd like the client to be able to edit the logo and footer for the theme	00:46
@preaction	okay, they'll be able to edit any part of it.	00:47
Mech422	(in one spot, and not on every page)	00:47
@preaction	but, if you want, you can make those be Snippets and use ^AssetProxy();	00:47
@preaction	look on the webgui.org site for "Snippets", there are a lot of fun ways to use them to make your life easier	00:47
Mech422	ahh - snippets.. thats a good idea	00:47
Mech422	thanks preaction	00:49
@preaction	don't go overboard though, they tend to get annoying	00:49
@preaction	at least for me, when i have to go into someone's site	00:49
@preaction	Articles might be good too, then they get the WYSIWYG editor	00:50
Mech422	that would be good	00:50
@preaction	but then they have more freedom to screw up your design	00:50
Mech422	yeah - thats their problem :-P This client is pretty good about that..	00:51
Mech422	the broke their plone site over the weekend by 'moving' the portlets folder :-p	00:51
Mech422	and just owned up and said they wouldn't do it again :-)	00:52
@preaction	you can, just by moving a folder, screw up an entire site in Plone?	00:53
Mech422	preaction - sure same as in wG	00:53
@preaction	which folder?	00:53
Mech422	if you move this: ^AssetProxy(theme018/mainMenu); - its gonna break my wG site	00:53
@preaction	actually no	00:54
@preaction	you'd have to change its URL	00:54
@preaction	that would break it	00:54
Mech422	anything that relies on path names can be broken by stuff moving	00:54
@preaction	and you can hide URL via UILevel if you're paranoid	00:54
Mech422	I mean if you move them018/mainMenu to theme018/mainMenu.old or something	00:54
@preaction	Another way wG is superior	00:54
@preaction	yeah, you would have to explicitly change the URL field, that would be the only way ;)	00:55
Mech422	LOL actualy no having used both - I can find just as many creative ways to break both	00:55
@preaction	keep finding them, and then RFE ways to fix them (or some of them might even be bugs)	00:55
@preaction	i am all for making WebGUI user-bulletproof	00:55
Mech422	the wG is 'superior' stuff mainly stems from a lack of understanding of what plone can do - both are _very_ capable systems - they are just very different	00:55
@preaction	i would say that if you can break WebGUI from the web interface, that is considered a bug	00:56
@preaction	we can prevent accidents, but not malice of course	00:56
Mech422	right	00:56
@preaction	i suppose technically the assetproxy would work even after that URL changed... for a few months at least ;)	00:57
Mech422	? you mean assuming the cached version was around? no reboots etc etc ?	00:58
Mech422	(btw - one cool thing in plone is multi-level undo - changes are transactional, so I was able to 'undo' the moving of the folder, plus about 20 other changes made after that in one shot...)	00:59
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@preaction	not cached, previous revision. assets respond (or last i knew responded) to all URLs they may have formerly used (until you use Change URL or the revision gets auto-cleaned)	01:00
@preaction	yeah, lineage isn't versionable right now :(	01:00
@preaction	nor is deletion	01:00
Mech422	hmm - thats intestering	01:00
@preaction	well, in so much as it leaves the trash	01:00
Mech422	trying to decide if I like that or not - I hate 'magic' stuff like that - always seems to bite you at the wrong time	01:01
@preaction	two options for the AssetProxy problem: one, have assets being called by AssetProxy set a flag to say "This asset is being accessed by its URL from another part of the system, changing the URL may break something."	01:02
@preaction	or two, allowing individual properties to be locked by individual users/groups	01:02
@preaction	i don't like two, for reasons of it being a huge potential problem with a very small return	01:02
Mech422	3.) refer by uuid and re-construct proper url at request time	01:02
@preaction	oh, you can do that with the AssetProxy already	01:03
@preaction	^AssetProxy("assetId",1); <- the 1 means "the first arg is an assetId"	01:03
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Mech422	I tend to like uuids... but thats just me	01:03
Mech422	oh cool	01:04
@preaction	there are a lot of macros that use URL for an argument, when the new practice is to use the guids	01:04
@preaction	well, to be fair, there weren't guids back then	01:04
Mech422	prolly a bit faster too as it saves you a url to uid lookup ?	01:04
@preaction	not really. url is an indexed column	01:04
Mech422	ahh	01:04
@preaction	i mean, it would have to be really	01:04
Mech422	the 'full' url or just the 'leaf' portion ?	01:05
@preaction	it's not like you have to look up the ID and then instance the asset, you can instance with the URL	01:05
@preaction	the absolute URL, minus gateway and hostname	01:05
@preaction	(and protocol of course)	01:05
Mech422	nice	01:05
Mech422	a bit long potentially - but fast for lookups	01:06
@preaction	the Gateway thing is another fun one I've not seen in other systems, it allows you to run two distinct webgui sites on the same hostname. hostname/one/ and hostname/two/ can be two different sites	01:07
@preaction	just by changing one config value	01:07
Mech422	yeah - plone does that via the 'virtual host monster'	01:07
@preaction	probably not hard for other systems though	01:07
@preaction	uh... virtual host monster?	01:07
+perlDreamer	Mech422: plone versions content location?	01:07
Mech422	yeah - you can map plone folders to different virtual hosts	01:08
Mech422	or even do 'inside out' hosting where plone content is 'inserted' into an existing site tree	01:08
@preaction	nice	01:08
Mech422	perlDreamer: Plone (Zope) versions _objects_ - so everything can be versioned	01:09
Mech422	Umm - you use Moose or Poe or something to do that in Perl, right ?	01:09
@preaction	we could do the same thing, make a table worth of undo info	01:09
@preaction	Mech422: no, we don't use an ORM currently	01:09
Mech422	ahh - I mean 'to put it in perl speak - it uses moose or poe type technology' ?	01:10
@preaction	no, neither of those are ORM systems	01:10
Mech422	dam - 0 for 2	01:10
* Mech422 shuts up now		01:10
@preaction	moose is a way to build classes, poe is a "cooperative multi-tasking environment"	01:11
Mech422	when I left perl, so state table like framework was all the rage for perl stuff	01:12
Mech422	never got into or understood why people were so excited by it - state table based code has been around for dogs years	01:13
Mech422	s/so/some/	01:13
deafferret	why people were some excited by it?	01:14
Mech422	sorry - 'some state table like'	01:14
Mech422	I should just give up and go back to bed	01:14
Mech422	:-P	01:14
deafferret	:)	01:15
+perlDreamer	it also depends on the type of object you're versioning	01:16
+perlDreamer	WebGUI has two ways of determining parentage	01:16
+perlDreamer	the official way is via lineage	01:17
+perlDreamer	which isn't versioned	01:17
+perlDreamer	the other way is via parentId	01:17
+perlDreamer	if parentId was the only way, then you could do full site versions	01:17
+perlDreamer	but with lineage it's not so easy	01:17
* perlDreamer waits for preaction to come and fill in the gaps in that reasoning		01:18
@preaction	parentId is not versioned either, currently	01:20
@preaction	and yes, lineage + versioning would be weird because the revision you're looking at could be constantly changing. you need to know the lineage before you know the revisionDate	01:20
@preaction	also, it gets flakey when you get into clipboard and clipboard-limbo and trash-limbo	01:21
+perlDreamer	asset states get less flakey with autocommit, though, right?	01:22
@preaction	state is not versioned, so doesn't matter	01:22
Mech422	hmm - I think that state table stuff was poe	01:22
@preaction	status is versioned	01:22
@preaction	no. POE is a multi-tasking environment	01:22
@preaction	i mean, POE may have a different definition of the word "state"	01:23
Mech422	yeah - I think it was POE - the docs mention POE::NFA	01:24
Mech422	I think it used 'events' for 'edges' in the state table... Ie transfering state on receipt of an 'event'	01:25
* perlDreamer is getting closer to writing an i18n label searcher for the UI		01:28
CIA-38	WebGUI: yung * r10195 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Added 'too few/many' messages to matrix compare box, rfe# 9965	01:28
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+perlDreamer	hey, patspam!	03:29
+patspam	hola!	03:29
+perlDreamer	I was wondering if there was any news on the leaky Editor front, from YUI?	03:30
+patspam	http://yuilibrary.com/projects/yui2/ticket/2512149	03:31
+patspam	last modified 2 months ago	03:32
+perlDreamer	they must be occupied with YUI3	03:32
+patspam	yeah, I reckon	03:32
+perlDreamer	it's a good thing we're not that way, with WebGUI	03:32
* perlDreamer takes a dinner break		03:36
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CIA-38	WebGUI: graham * r10196 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/ (_NewAsset.skeleton Wobject/_NewWobject.skeleton): add metadata processing to skeleton prepareView	03:55
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@preaction	I do not cook nearly enough 3- and 4-course meals...	05:10
+patspam	anyone know how to create long arguments like '--my-long-argument' with Getopt::Long?	05:12
+patspam	wgd won't let me have an arg with a dash in the middle	05:13
@preaction	oh, you should probably use camelcase	05:13
@preaction	that might be the convention we're going with	05:13
+patspam	ah ok	05:13
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+perlDreamer	all, I'm planning on releasing another version of the WebGUI Network News next weekend	07:16
+perlDreamer	please email/IM me with news and stories and questions	07:16
+perlDreamer	I gotta remember to do this during then day, when more people are awake	07:17
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: where can I get previous issues?	07:17
+perlDreamer	except for preaction, who never sleeps	07:17
+perlDreamer	perldreamer.com/blog	07:17
+perlDreamer	but you'll have to give me feedback tomorrow, because I'm crashing out tonight	07:18
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CIA-38	WebGUI: patspam * r10197 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Some fixes to the way Survey handles recordedAnswer, value, etc..	10:45
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+SynQ	can someone assign this bug to me? http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/10021	16:00
@Haarg	done	16:12
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+perlmonkey2	Haarg: You affected by the downtown evacuation?	16:34
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deafferret	evac of where?	17:02
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+perlmonkey2	deafferret: The Canadians invaded this morning. A Canadian fighter jet (Cessna 172) flew over Madison causing the capitol building to be momentarily evacuated.	17:07
+perlmonkey2	Looks like it was just some kid at a Canadian flight school who took a joy ride that went really really bad.	17:08
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@Haarg	perlmonkey2, that was only the capitol building it appears	17:15
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nuba	you call this a canadian fighter jet? http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/04/06/plane-stolen.html	17:19
@plainhao	$500,000 of u.s. money spent on the joy ride	17:19
nuba	thats a crappy looking cessna 172	17:20
@plainhao	that's all the canadians can afford	17:20
nuba	heh	17:20
* plainhao thinks u.s. should switch to flying cessna 172s too		17:20
nuba	they say he refused to communicate with authorities	17:21
nuba	maybe he was trying bringing "suicide by cop" to a new level	17:21
nuba	from ground level to a few thousand feets :D	17:22
nuba	or rather, "suicide by F16"	17:22
nuba	sounds way cooler	17:22
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nuba	no shit, looks like thats really what he was after http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iC5xvmRlmutpYgkeMsfKk4QV4qjwD97DKFUO0	17:25
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* plainhao guesses he really needed to go to the convenience store		17:26
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zylopfa	I have a question regarding a mysql query when transfering some data and webgui'ize it	17:28
zylopfa	update TFT_stories, userProfileData set TFT_stories.author=userProfileData.userId where userProfileData.id=TFT_stories.author;	17:28
zylopfa	is my query, but it seems to take forever	17:29
zylopfa	its only about 14k stories i need to have updated with their new author id, which is the users webgui id	17:29
CIA-38	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r1347ce6 / (20 files in 5 dirs): various POD improvements - http://bit.ly/NKsje	17:34
CIA-38	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r5d38c2f / lib/WGDev/Command/Edit.pm : avoid autocommit and notice sending - http://bit.ly/kDEpm	17:34
CIA-38	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r2fe466f / (5 files in 2 dirs): complete POD coverage - http://bit.ly/eZBHv	17:34
@Haarg	if the field types of those don't match up that could slow it down a lot	17:35
zylopfa	Haarg, i found out i forgot to change the new author id to varchar(22) bin :(	17:35
zylopfa	the query ended now after 22 minutes	17:35
zylopfa	maybe the warnings make it slow?	17:36
+SynQ	hmm	17:36
zylopfa	still weird it takes 22 min for just 14k updates	17:37
+perlmonkey2	nuba: I guess moving to the other side of the world can be a bit stressful.	17:38
zylopfa	I am converting a 10.000 user site to webgui	17:40
zylopfa	the userimport utility script is genius for that	17:40
zylopfa	Haarg, the query i wrote can you do that i mysql? when i use the field i wish to update in the where clause?	17:42
zylopfa	I know you can in perl but not sure it work in mysql?	17:42
@Haarg	as far as i know that i fine	17:43
zylopfa	is it normal it takes 20+ minutes for 14k stories that has to change its author id from a table of 11k users?	17:44
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zylopfa	I just googled it and someone have a query like it which takes several hours	17:56
zylopfa	Its just strange as its a simple update	17:57
+SynQ	whoohoo I have resolved a bug :) http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/10021	17:57
zylopfa	Awesome!	17:58
zylopfa	Thanks a lot	17:58
CIA-38	WebGUI: koen * r10198 /wrebuild/ (getperlmodules.sh build.sh): Reverted Proc::ProcessTable to version 0.44 due to bug 10021.	17:58
CIA-38	WebGUI: koen * r10199 /wrebuild/ (build.sh getsource.sh):	17:58
CIA-38	WebGUI: updated downloadlinks for berkeley db, libjpeg	17:58
CIA-38	WebGUI: updated lftp to 3.7.11	17:58
CIA-38	WebGUI: koen * r10200 /wrebuild/ (getperlmodules.sh build.sh):	17:58
CIA-38	WebGUI: Updated perl modules:	17:58
CIA-38	WebGUI: POE-1.004	17:58
CIA-38	WebGUI: Text-CSV_XS-0.64	17:58
@tavisto	nice job SynQ	17:59
+SynQ	now if only I could get to talk to JT for 5 minutes	17:59
+SynQ	so I can convince him to release the updated SVN for WRE as 0.9.2	17:59
@tavisto	JT was out sick yesterday and it sounds like he's still not feeling well today	18:00
zylopfa	:(	18:00
+SynQ	in that case I'll send an e-mail to the dev-list	18:00
+SynQ	done that	18:04
zylopfa	GooD!	18:04
zylopfa	damn this query has taken 15 min so far :(	18:04
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@Haarg	if you are messing with the wre, can you update XML::TreePP and XML::FeedPP to the latest?	18:11
zylopfa	Woohoo the query is done! 32 min and 33 seconds	18:11
+SynQ	Haarg: sure thing	18:11
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nuba	zylopfa: you should check this http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/explain.html	18:18
nuba	if you want more info about whats going on with your query taking that long	18:18
zylopfa	ahh awesome! thanks a lot!	18:18
zylopfa	I will use that from now on	18:18
+SynQ	Haarg: any other modules?	18:18
@Haarg	nope	18:18
zylopfa	Good thing is that the 30min query was a one time select/update query. I am migrating some data and updating some id's	18:19
+SynQ	Haarg: do you want Test::Class into the WRE?	18:21
@Haarg	hmm	18:21
@Haarg	not sure what we decided for that	18:21
@Haarg	probably not	18:21
@Haarg	since it is broken on some platforms	18:22
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+SynQ	WebGUI beta is complaining about that module in testEnvironment.pl	18:22
@Haarg	well, not it directly, but one of its prereqs	18:22
@Haarg	i'll ask perlDreamer what he thinks when he gets on	18:22
+SynQ	ok	18:23
@Haarg	we can't use it currently, so i'm thinking we should pull it from testEnvironment.pl	18:23
+SynQ	updated TreePP and FeedPP are in	18:23
@Haarg	thanks	18:23
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zylopfa	nuba, the explain thing is real awesome, now i can also see which index i have to create in order to make normal queries faster	18:27
zylopfa	Hahah nice i got a query down from 0.25 seconds to 0.00 seconds by making some index on a field used in the query	18:28
CIA-38	WebGUI: koen * r10201 /wrebuild/ (getperlmodules.sh build.sh):	18:28
CIA-38	WebGUI: Updated perlmodules:	18:28
CIA-38	WebGUI: Class-C3-XS-0.11	18:28
CIA-38	WebGUI: Class-C3-0.21	18:28
CIA-38	WebGUI: XML-TreePP-0.38	18:28
CIA-38	WebGUI: XML-FeedPP-0.40	18:28
nuba	zylopfa: keep in mind mysql has to keep indexes updated, so dont go trigger happy creating indexes everywhere	18:31
zylopfa	nuba, indeed but its important.I have a collection of stories and a make lists of newest stories by date	18:32
zylopfa	so i made the date-posted field an index	18:32
nuba	zylopfa: this is also your friend http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1/en/slow-query-log.html	18:33
zylopfa	Awesome thanks a lot nuba !	18:34
nuba	np, have fun!	18:34
zylopfa	thanks a lot	18:34
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+perlDreamer	well, that's two calls for a non-PDF WebGUI newsletter	18:51
+perlDreamer	everyone, last Saturday I released issue #1 of the WebGUI Network News	18:52
+perlDreamer	you can grab a copy from my blog, perldreamer.com/blog	18:52
zylopfa	awesome perlDreamer i will take a look!	18:52
+perlDreamer	I'd be interested in a straw poll of IRC folk who think it should be HTML vs PDF	18:52
zylopfa	Jesus i was a noob when i first made this :(	18:53
zylopfa	I have no keys in many of the large talbes	18:54
zylopfa	tables	18:54
deafferret	can it be printed on bacon?	18:54
zylopfa	Yeah I want it on bacon!!	18:54
+perlDreamer	deafferret, if your printer is bacon enabled, it will	18:54
+perlDreamer	just be sure to use edible ink	18:54
* deafferret buys more cartridges		18:54
zylopfa	my printer is 600 bps	18:54
zylopfa	= bacon pr. second	18:54
@preaction	do we have a tool that will scan my asset tables for broken items?	18:55
+perlDreamer	yes	18:55
+perlDreamer	t/Asset/Asset_diagnose.t	18:55
@preaction	ok, thanks	18:55
+perlDreamer	it needs some switches/environment variables to work, iirc	18:55
@preaction	is it safe to run on production?	18:55
+perlDreamer	it only does reads	18:55
@preaction	k	18:56
@preaction	oh, it uses Test::Deep, so it won't tell me ALL of the possible problems, just one of them at a time :(	18:57
+perlDreamer	The problem I have with it being HTML is that I really don't like using TinyMCE, but I guess I can get over it	18:57
+perlDreamer	preaction, Test::Deep used to tell you all the problems	18:57
@preaction	you can use some other program and then paste it into the TinyMCE	18:57
+perlDreamer	if you wish, change it to use Test::Differences	18:57
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+perlDreamer	SynQ, bopbop, what are you thoughts on the newsletter?	18:58
CIA-38	WebGUI: koen * r10202 /wrebuild/getperlmodules.sh: forgot to use $CPANMIRROR	19:00
CIA-38	WebGUI: koen * r10203 /wrebuild/getperlmodules.sh: Class-C3-XS-0.11 has a different author	19:00
+SynQ	perlDreamer: http://www.webgui.nl	19:03
+SynQ	it is awesome	19:03
+perlDreamer	thanks for the link, SynQ!	19:04
+SynQ	perlDreamer: I'm sure you are running for the award named after you this year! :)	19:04
+perlDreamer	I'm ineligible for that award	19:04
+perlDreamer	they'll have to come up with a new one :)	19:04
+SynQ	hehe	19:05
+SynQ	you know what is peculiar	19:05
+perlDreamer	what's that?	19:05
+SynQ	now that my RFE on 'last post' has been implemented	19:05
+SynQ	you can see that of the people on this list: http://www.webgui.org/wg/karma	19:06
+SynQ	you are the first one from the top that actually posts to webgui.org	19:06
+SynQ	I don't even know who Emil is	19:06
+SynQ	let alone what he has received karma for	19:06
+SynQ	my guess is he is a rockstar	19:07
+perlDreamer	that is probably true	19:07
+SynQ	that has logged into WebGUI.org 9 times :)	19:07
+SynQ	hence the 45009 and not 45000 like biskitmiller	19:07
@preaction	we give karma with our rockstar clients now?	19:08
+perlDreamer	I thought that logging in was 2 karma, so perhaps 2 logins, and 1 post?	19:08
zylopfa	nuba the explain dont work for update queries :( and its the ones i make now that will propably take all night if i dont make indexes :(	19:08
+SynQ	no posts	19:08
+SynQ	posts would show in the 'contributions' page of that user	19:08
+perlDreamer	maybe	19:08
+SynQ	oh tiffany has made some contributions	19:08
+SynQ	mainly articles	19:08
+perlDreamer	not all assets show up in the contributions	19:08
+SynQ	oh	19:09
zylopfa	aha Koen are you checking us out?	19:09
zylopfa	I have 400 something karma :D	19:09
zylopfa	titlandata is my id on there	19:09
+SynQ	zylopfa: I'm looking at those special people at the top of the karma list	19:09
zylopfa	like perlDreamer	19:10
+SynQ	indeed	19:10
zylopfa	isnt he on the top?	19:10
+SynQ	nope	19:10
+perlDreamer	nope	19:10
+SynQ	Emil is	19:10
zylopfa	ahh yeah	19:10
+perlDreamer	I've been giving my karma away for bugfixes and translations	19:10
+SynQ	but perlDreamer is the true person to look up to	19:10
zylopfa	yeah isn't there also a Colin K. award?	19:10
zylopfa	or how his name is spelled	19:11
+SynQ	zylopfa: http://perldreamer.com/perldreamer	19:11
zylopfa	Colin Kuskie award!	19:11
zylopfa	ha also wrote the test chapter in the developers book	19:12
+SynQ	oh and perlDreamer: I vote for the non PDF version of WNN too	19:13
+SynQ	so that makes 3	19:13
zylopfa	4 for me	19:13
+perlDreamer	Okay, I'll start up a CS for it, then	19:13
+perlDreamer	and backport issue #1 into it	19:13
zylopfa	perlDreamer, are you good with sql?	19:13
+perlDreamer	no	19:14
zylopfa	ok :D	19:14
+perlDreamer	what is it you're trying to do, zylopfa?	19:15
zylopfa	ok here is what, i have an old site i make to run in webgui	19:15
zylopfa	but i have to update some userid fields to the new webgui userids, that my users got when i imported thm	19:15
zylopfa	I have a table with 2million entries which logs views of different storiy id's	19:16
zylopfa	and they are listed with what user viewed the story	19:16
zylopfa	so i need to update each of the 2 million entries with the new user id	19:16
zylopfa	update TFT_storyview, userProfileData set TFT_storyview.user=userProfileData.userId where userProfileData.id=TFT_storyview.user;	19:16
zylopfa	this is how i do it in mysql	19:16
+perlDreamer	okay	19:17
zylopfa	userProfileData.id is the old sites user id	19:17
zylopfa	but i made a similar update earlier with only 10k things that should be changed and it took 30 min	19:17
zylopfa	so i am afraid this query will take most of the day as there are 2million updates	19:17
+SynQ	dinner!	19:17
+perlDreamer	sure	19:17
+perlDreamer	and the site is live?	19:18
zylopfa	not now :D	19:18
zylopfa	implementing it atm.	19:18
zylopfa	the live site is up and running on the old system	19:18
zylopfa	so i am not interfering with it	19:19
zylopfa	still a whole day is a long time for updating something in sql	19:19
+perlDreamer	I have only 1 suggestion, and that is not to do the join, but to use perl to cache the id->userId data	19:19
zylopfa	its basically statistics data for the stories, who viewed them, when and how many times	19:19
+perlDreamer	and I don't know if it would be faster	19:19
zylopfa	yeah good idea, so i make a select first and then make an update using the select data?	19:20
+perlDreamer	yes	19:21
+perlDreamer	get a list of the unique ids in the storyview table	19:21
+perlDreamer	actually, you can skip that	19:21
+perlDreamer	use buildHashRef to make a lookup table from the userProfileData	19:21
+perlDreamer	then for each entry in the table, do a blanket replace for all of that user's data in the storyview table	19:22
+perlDreamer	it might be faster than the join, but I have no way of knowing	19:22
+perlDreamer	2 million rows is a lot!	19:22
zylopfa	I think it will be faster	19:22
zylopfa	also if i make some indexes in the mysql tables	19:22
CIA-38	WebGUI: yung * r10204 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (4 files in 4 dirs): fixed #10110: Matrix 2.0 - "Data Error" on Pending Product Listing Updates	19:31
zylopfa	perlDreamer, I think i am making indexes in the table first cause i can see that the join is going through all 2 million rows to find matches	19:32
+perlDreamer	good thinking, zylopfa	19:32
zylopfa	there is 2 million and it has to be traversed 10k times cause there are 10k users	19:32
zylopfa	so it will be a significant time before it finishes without indexes on the user field	19:33
zylopfa	perlDreamer, !!!	19:35
+perlDreamer	yes?	19:36
zylopfa	I have gotten the query to finish in 10 seconds now instead of XX hours!	19:36
+perlDreamer	sweet!	19:36
+perlDreamer	now, before you forget about it, make sure your other tables are indexed, too :)	19:36
zylopfa	yeah i am making an index sweep as i port the code to webgui	19:36
zylopfa	the queries i make now are only used 1 time though to update user ids	19:37
zylopfa	but many indexes are needed also for general queries	19:37
nuba	zylopfa: if you work with DBs frequently then you may benefit from studying the topic a bit	19:51
nuba	this is a good place to spend time on http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Electrical-Engineering-and-Computer-Science/6-830Fall-2005/CourseHome/index.htm	19:51
nuba	my prefered DB book is Elsmari & Navathe's	19:53
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zylopfa	thanks a lot nuba i will definately look at it	19:56
@preaction	so one of my assets has a lineage of "3dcAHG", is that bad?	20:10
@Haarg	nice	20:11
+perlDreamer	preaction, nice job. You found a way to increase the lifespan of the lineage system!	20:15
@preaction	yay!	20:15
+perlDreamer	now can have more than 1e6 assets per parent	20:16
+perlDreamer	how did you do it?	20:16
@preaction	I'M GOING TO DISNEY WORLD!	20:16
@preaction	uh... how?	20:16
+perlDreamer	yeah	20:16
@preaction	uh... DISNEY WORLD!	20:16
@tavisto	easy, just type 2e6	20:16
+perlDreamer	tavisto: the concensus on the newsletter is that it needs to be a CS, instead of PDF	20:18
@tavisto	well then we're doing the PDF	20:19
@tavisto	the first rule to marketing is to always ignore your audience/customers and do what you want	20:19
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+perlDreamer	everyone I asked said HTML, except bopbop, who was so incensed about it being a PDF that she didn't even write back	20:20
+perlDreamer	or something like that	20:20
@tavisto	I think the CS is fine. The main thing is that it needs to be available and mentioned on our main channels of communication. I think it's a great way of providing technical and non-technical updates for the week or two weeks	20:24
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@tavisto	it's hard for even someone like me to keep up with what you guys are working on in the core... let alone other members of the community. If your a developer then you know it like the back of your hand. If not, then you just hear bits and pieces from all over	20:26
+perlDreamer	tavisto, that's the problem. There are enough dev's now that it's not possible to keep up with everything anymore.	20:28
+perlDreamer	that's one of the reasons I made the newsletter	20:28
@tavisto	exactly, so I think it's a great way to keep the community/developers on a similar page	20:28
* perlDreamer is hoping that people will funnel information to me so that I can let everyone know about it		20:28
+perlDreamer	exactly	20:28
+perlDreamer	some things will be trivial, like the AssetHistory browser	20:29
@tavisto	well we can setup a form and let people submit stuff to you for this purpose	20:29
+perlDreamer	other things will be big, like the new Shop workflow to delete carts	20:29
+perlDreamer	that would be cool	20:29
@tavisto	I'll be cc'd on it as well but then the CS could be updated on the community site with the actual updates	20:29
+perlDreamer	community site == webgui.org?	20:30
@tavisto	yeah	20:30
@tavisto	the CS could also be setup to feed into the main WebGUI news. But we need the new site up for taht	20:31
@tavisto	that	20:31
+perlDreamer	well, until it is setup, I'll keep publishing it to perldreamer.com	20:33
+perlDreamer	we can always package it up and move it to webgui.org when it's ready	20:33
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10205 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/User.pm: Remove old legacy code.	20:37
@bopbop	perldreamer!	21:02
@bopbop	why can't I read your blog anymore?	21:02
@bopbop	oh	21:02
@bopbop	hehe	21:02
@bopbop	nevermind....	21:03
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+perlDreamer	hey, bopbop. Was something wrong with my blog?	21:03
@bopbop	no, I'm just dumb	21:04
@bopbop	your blog is fine	21:04
@bopbop	I just gonna write back :)	21:04
+perlDreamer	be careful, I'm usually pretty hard on people who speak poorly of bopbop in channel	21:04
@bopbop	to vote for a Cs	21:04
@bopbop	CS	21:04
@bopbop	well, then	21:04
wgGuest82	Question is there a plugin similar to google docs for webgui?	21:05
+perlDreamer	wgGuest82, no	21:05
+perlDreamer	Google does it so well	21:06
@preaction	what is google docs? like Word on google?	21:06
wgGuest82	Thanks. Any suggestions? We have private data we dont want them to control	21:06
@tavisto	There will be a document management wobject coming in the near future. But not yet	21:06
@preaction	what can they do the TinyMCE cannot do?	21:06
wgGuest82	Document management webobject is what we need.	21:07
wgGuest82	Perfect	21:07
@preaction	tavisto: you mean the Story Manager?	21:07
+perlDreamer	preaction, spreadsheets	21:07
wgGuest82	We need a easy to use revision control system for a team project	21:07
@preaction	perlDreamer: DataTable!	21:07
@tavisto	WGFS preaction	21:07
@preaction	ohh, that's different	21:07
@preaction	but it might work	21:08
+perlDreamer	DataTable != spreadsheet. No calculations	21:08
* SDuensin votes for WGdocs. :-)		21:08
@preaction	which reminds me i have to ask JT about my idea of making certain assets export themselves as .doc or .xls or .ods or .pdf or .psd inside of WGFS	21:08
@tavisto	wgGuest82, WebGUI already has versioning, workflow, and content approval built into it	21:08
SDuensin	Seriously though, I can't wait for WGFS.	21:09
wgGuest82	Yea we are looking for a complete office suite like google docs that we can control on a private server using webgui	21:09
@preaction	you have Access (Thingy), Word (Article), uh...	21:09
@preaction	we don't have Excel or PowerPoint	21:10
+perlDreamer	SDuensin, then get busy writing it in Latte	21:10
+perlDreamer	or Mocha	21:10
@preaction	well, Gallery might be able to be used for PowerPoint, but we're far more specialized when it comes to presenting data like that	21:10
+perlDreamer	or whatever that thing is that you like	21:10
@preaction	ha! Cocoa + Java = Mocha... clever	21:11
SDuensin	perlDreamer - I actually was looking at porting this to WebGUI: http://www.simple-groupware.de/cms/Spreadsheet/Home	21:11
@tavisto	wgGuest82, WebGUI can definitely store multiple versions of files and track versions, but the files have to be uploaded by the users after they modify them	21:11
+perlDreamer	that's pretty cool, SDuensin	21:11
+perlDreamer	and I understand it :)	21:11
+perlDreamer	unlike Cappucino	21:11
SDuensin	perlDreamer - It wouldn't be hard. The PHP part is pretty small.	21:12
@preaction	wgGuest82: I should mention that if you're looking for custom development, Plain Black can help you	21:12
@tavisto	However, this will be changing with the document management functionality that will be provided by the WebGUI File System (WGFS)	21:12
* SDuensin cheers wildly for WGFS!		21:12
wgGuest82	How can we have users upload their files such as word xcel or powerpoint. I know how to do as admin but I want users to do it	21:13
@tavisto	oh that's easy, you can go to the admin bar and choose to upload a new file	21:13
@preaction	you could make a collab system and allow them to attach files	21:13
@preaction	tavisto: i think he means without turning admin on	21:13
wgGuest82	Collaboration system module?	21:13
@preaction	yes	21:13
wgGuest82	yes without turning admin on	21:13
+perlDreamer	there's only 1 thing stopping wgfs, and that's developer time	21:14
+perlDreamer	if it was funded, it would happen a lot quicker	21:14
@preaction	that too	21:14
@preaction	it's not a difficult thing, we've proved it's possible already	21:14
SDuensin	If only I was funded, WG would do everything. :-P	21:14
@preaction	heh, we ARE funded and it doesn't yet ;)	21:14
@tavisto	ah okay, yep the collaboration system would work fine for that. Think of it as a generic data engine which allows you to configure how it works through basic templates. It can currently serve as a job posting system, a forum, a photo gallery, a file manager, a guest book, classified ads engine, FAQ generator	21:15
@tavisto	You can configure the collaboration system to allow regular users to be able to upload files to the site. Thus preventing them from having to be an admin with the admin mode turned on :)	21:15
@preaction	there's also ways to attach files to many things, like Calendar Events	21:15
wgGuest82	This sounds good.	21:16
wgGuest82	I am going to try it now	21:16
@tavisto	you can try out a fully functional demo by going to http://demo.webgui.org. It lasts for 24 hours and you can always create more if you need to	21:16
+perlDreamer	would a Folder work?	21:17
@tavisto	absolutely	21:18
@preaction	but folder requires strange config to get to add assets w/o turning admin on	21:18
@preaction	we've had to do it a couple times on some of our sites	21:18
+perlDreamer	maybe we should fix that...	21:18
@preaction	it won't be fixed. normal users should not be normally allowed to edit normal things	21:19
+perlDreamer	even with a CS, don't you have to set the edit timeout to be a long time to allow for removing and reuploading?	21:19
@preaction	i mean, you can try, i'm just mentioning what i think rizen will say	21:19
+perlDreamer	I know preaction	21:19
* SDuensin would love for users to be able to upload to a folder, too. Maybe it's time for a JaegerFolder. :-P		21:19
+perlDreamer	it's just when I hear several people saying the same thing several times, it makes me think that it would be a good feature	21:20
@preaction	we might move Gallery to just use WebGUI::Asset::File, which would provide Folder functionality for normal users	21:20
+perlDreamer	it's more like the gallery at that point	21:20
+perlDreamer	yeah!	21:20
+perlDreamer	there ya go	21:20
@preaction	Jt's mentioned this too, so this could be done with his approval	21:20
SDuensin	Gallery + Shortcut = Headache. :-(	21:20
+perlDreamer	how's that, SD?	21:23
SDuensin	I had this bright idea to customize the style of the Gallery to be bare bones for users to view, then shortcut it to an admin page and put the original style back with the overrides so the site admin could manage it...	21:24
SDuensin	That doesn't work because the gallery isn't a single object.	21:24
wgGuest82	What does [display tab] request tracker do in collaborative system module?	21:25
+perlDreamer	it configures the CS to be a lightweight bug system/request generator	21:25
+perlDreamer	it's really just a special template	21:25
@preaction	wgGuest82: it's just a template, changes how the CS looks	21:25
* preaction is always 30ms too late		21:25
+perlDreamer	yes, but you're usually right more often than I am	21:26
wgGuest82	In collaboration system is there a way to show attached files at root level and not by clicking on subject title?	21:27
@preaction	yes, by editing the template	21:27
+perlDreamer	preaction, does he mean in the thread view?	21:28
@preaction	no, he means in the Collaboration view	21:28
wgGuest82	We want the files to show at thread view	21:28
wgGuest82	Thanks for terminology help	21:28
+SynQ	Building Complete And Successful	21:28
@preaction	so when you see the list of threads, you also see the files in that first post	21:28
@preaction	SynQ: wooooo!	21:28
wgGuest82	Yes	21:29
+perlDreamer	SynQ: what are you building?	21:29
+SynQ	wre svn head	21:29
wgGuest82	We are building a file collaboration system similar to google docs	21:29
@preaction	wgGuest82: yes, look in the Help section of the Admin Console under Collaboration View (should be "attachmentLoop")	21:29
wgGuest82	but we can t achieve google docs so we are trying to get close	21:29
+SynQ	if up to me wre 0.9.2	21:29
wgGuest82	We dont have that admin privlage to update software on sever	21:30
+SynQ	just wanted to let you know	21:30
+SynQ	wgGuest82: do you have access to the apache config file?	21:30
+SynQ	wgGuest82: and can you restart it	21:30
wgGuest82	Thanks for your help	21:31
+SynQ	if so you could run WRE on unpriv ports	21:31
+SynQ	uhnm	21:31
+SynQ	I'm probably saying something that is not to the point in any way	21:32
+SynQ	just disregart my ramblings	21:32
+perlDreamer	SynQ, no those are good questions. If wgGuest82 does not have command line access on his hoster, then he cannot run WebGUI at all.	21:33
+SynQ	ah	21:33
+perlDreamer	it is not like PHP, where you upload it via FTP	21:33
+perlDreamer	but you know all those	21:33
+SynQ	indeed	21:33
+perlDreamer	I'm repeating it for the benefit of wgGuest82	21:33
+SynQ	the best shot is to get another hoster	21:34
+perlDreamer	Know any good ones?	21:34
+SynQ	if you don't have command line access the rest is a long shot	21:34
+SynQ	that depends on what you want	21:34
+SynQ	you want cheap? I don't know them, sorry	21:34
+SynQ	you want good? and you are in the USA, try PlainBlack	21:35
+SynQ	you want good? and you are in europe, try ProcoliX	21:35
+SynQ	you want good? and you are in Australia, try CrucialParadigm and e-mail ProcoliX to set it up for you	21:35
+perlDreamer	Does Procolix cover Asia, as well?	21:35
+SynQ	the whole thing depends on your budget	21:35
+SynQ	I don't know about asia	21:36
+SynQ	I have never looked into that	21:36
+SynQ	what part of asia?	21:36
+perlDreamer	I figured that ProcoliX was closer to Asia than Plain Black	21:36
+SynQ	true	21:36
+perlDreamer	and the Russian translation _is_ coming along nicely	21:37
@preaction	i think there's more service from US-asia than eu-asia	21:37
+perlDreamer	so someone is using WebGUI over there	21:37
+SynQ	but if you want a workable admin console you want your webgui hosted close to you	21:37
+SynQ	close as in 4 to 6 ms latency max	21:37
+SynQ	Russia == Europe	21:37
+SynQ	most of it	21:37
+SynQ	preaction: what do you mean by that?	21:38
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@preaction	i was looking at a map of the internet, and there is more bandwidth across the pacific than across the russian landmass	21:39
+SynQ	ah	21:39
+SynQ	but bandwith is not the bottleneck	21:39
+SynQ	it's latency	21:39
@preaction	and there's practically no bandwidth to Africa	21:39
+SynQ	where is the map of the internet that you are looking at? do you have a url?	21:40
@preaction	true, but latency is affected by the amount of info in the tubes	21:40
@preaction	uhm... let me see if i can dig it up	21:40
* perlDreamer thought latency was more a question of number of hops		21:40
@preaction	distance between those hops, amount of traffic those routers have to deal with, a lot of factors	21:41
+SynQ	the best way to know latency is by empiric measurement	21:41
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+SynQ	I know from past discussions that www.webgui.org is faster to plainblack then www.webgui.nl	21:41
+SynQ	and that demo.webgui.org and the temporarily created demo.webgui.nl are quite different too	21:42
+SynQ	there are huge differences if you are in Australia, Chicago area or Europe	21:42
+SynQ	all due to latency	21:42
@preaction	there was a /. post on the physical vulnerability of the internet to terrorist attack which had the map :(	21:43
+SynQ	ah	21:44
+SynQ	anyway	21:44
+SynQ	if you are looking for WebGUI hosting you want the server to be as close to you as possible	21:44
+perlDreamer	preaction: is this it -> http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/4Frvo8mCYQk/article.pl	21:44
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+SynQ	I don't see a map	21:46
@tavisto	SynQ, here's some news for ya! http://www.webgui.org/news/webgui-8-goes-php	21:47
@tavisto	at first I thought that was Koen dancing	21:47
@tavisto	but I knew you didn't have sunglasses that cool	21:47
ckotil	hah	21:51
+SynQ	tavisto: seen that :)	21:51
@tavisto	ah well make sure you don't wear a denim shirt and jeans at the same time again	21:52
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--- Day changed Wed Apr 08 2009
+perlDreamer	man, git diff makes you really lazy	00:04
+perlDreamer	I need some SVN help	00:10
+perlDreamer	I deleted a test and need to restore it	00:11
+perlDreamer	the last time the test was updated was rev 9618	00:11
+perlDreamer	I tried using svn cat, but I got an XML error	00:11
+perlDreamer	I got around it via SVN::Web and wget	00:19
deafferret	svn update -r9618 https://repo/blah@9618	00:25
+perlDreamer	thanks, deafferret!	00:26
deafferret	sure. that repo/blah@ part always makes me double-take	00:27
+perlDreamer	yeah, it seems redundant, since a rev was specified	00:27
deafferret	"file.t not found at HEAD"	00:28
deafferret	exactly	00:28
deafferret	perlDreamer++ # SVN bitch mind-meld	00:28
deafferret	gets even weirder when things have moved around. at that point checkout -r9618 ...@9618 is how I cope	00:29
deafferret	I haven't really gotten used to git diff/add/revert yet	00:30
+perlDreamer	I've got that down pretty well	00:30
+perlDreamer	but merging and pulling still escape me	00:30
+perlDreamer	deafferret, would you be interested in an easy TODO task to help us out?	00:31
deafferret	sure, maybe. I don't use webGUI much, but I have a couple installs and a todo list I never get to	00:31
* deafferret clocks out		00:32
deafferret	what's up?	00:32
+perlDreamer	it's a maintenance task	00:32
+perlDreamer	writing POD for some subroutines in modules that don't have POD	00:32
+perlDreamer	it would be really nice to have 100% POD coverage for when we launch WebGUI 8	00:32
deafferret	I could take a look, sure. repo?	00:32
+perlDreamer	https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/WebGUI	00:32
deafferret	=head2 thingie This is that thingie that does that thing. =cut	00:33
deafferret	co what path?	00:33
+perlDreamer	exactly, and if it has params, describe them, too	00:33
+perlDreamer	the path I pasted is our HEAD branch	00:33
deafferret	so you gave me HEAD? nice.	00:34
+perlDreamer	it has the best coverage	00:35
+perlDreamer	you could do another branch...	00:35
+perlDreamer	but it wouldn't be worth it	00:35
deafferret	k. I'm now sitting on a 235MB r10207	00:35
deafferret	felatio joke FAIL	00:36
* perlDreamer is kind of slow and thick headed		00:36
* deafferret ponders WEBGUI_CONFIG		00:36
+perlDreamer	good thinking	00:37
deafferret	do I need to install wre and friends to run t/POD.t?	00:37
+perlDreamer	no	00:37
+perlDreamer	but you do need a database, and a config file	00:37
+perlDreamer	once that is setup, then	00:38
+perlDreamer	env POD_COVERAGE=2 perl POD.t 2>&1 > pod	00:38
+perlDreamer	that will tell you every subroutine in every module that needs POD	00:38
deafferret	roger that	00:38
+perlDreamer	currently there are 44 modules that need POD	00:38
+perlDreamer	do you have commit rights?	00:39
deafferret	negatory	00:39
+perlDreamer	hm, in that case, you can either paste or email me patches	00:39
deafferret	late me paste one or two before you endow me	00:39
deafferret	ya	00:39
+perlDreamer	oh, I cannot grant that right to you	00:40
* perlDreamer is just a namby/pamby volunteer		00:40
deafferret	I think you're a secret agent dev	00:40
* perlDreamer looks around covertly, to see if anyone noticed that		00:41
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CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10206 /WebGUI/t/Account.t: Restore the Account.t test	00:47
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10207 /WebGUI/ (5 files in 3 dirs):	00:47
CIA-38	WebGUI: Add a method to Account called getUsers, which returns	00:47
CIA-38	WebGUI: either the user specified by the uid form param, or the	00:47
CIA-38	WebGUI: session user.	00:47
CIA-38	WebGUI: Change appendCommonVars to use it.	00:47
CIA-38	WebGUI: Remove spotty overrides in plugins.	00:47
+perlDreamer	that was a very wordy commit message	00:48
* perlDreamer is going to have to talk with colin about that		00:48
deafferret	Can't locate Clone.pm in @INC -- is that a CPAN module?	00:49
+perlDreamer	yup	00:49
* perlDreamer heads to the other office, be back in 15 or so		00:49
+perlDreamer	deafferret, it's always a good idea to run testEnvironment.pl to check	00:50
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deafferret	not found	00:51
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* perlDreamer is back!		01:23
CIA-38	WebGUI: brian * r10208 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/docs/create.sql: Preparing the 7.6.19 release.	01:23
deafferret	perlDreamer: I seem to be stuck. I seem to have 1 functional dev WebGUI environment, but I don't have root there and don't have Clone.pm installed	01:26
+perlDreamer	okay, let's start at the beginning.	01:27
+perlDreamer	Is this a VM?	01:27
+perlDreamer	deafferret?	01:29
deafferret	nope. it's a Linux box I don't have root on. I can ask an $admin. distracted by IMs right now	01:30
+perlDreamer	hm, can you install perl modules if you're not an admin?	01:31
deafferret	nope. can't install bupkis on this box apparently. brb	01:31
deafferret	back	01:37
+perlDreamer	okay	01:37
deafferret	I thought this box had a special 'wre' perl, but now I don't see that in my notes	01:38
deafferret	no $admins in IRC channel -sigh-	01:39
+perlDreamer	you can put two copies of WebGUI on 1 box	01:39
+perlDreamer	that what most of us do	01:39
+perlDreamer	WebGUI == perl and javascript, not WRE binaries	01:40
+perlDreamer	you guys have your own IRC channel?	01:41
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+perlDreamer	w00t! 1 contract done :)	01:57
CIA-38	WebGUI: graham * r10209 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed #9816: Syndicated Content asset fails to process feeds which include a UTF-8 BOM	01:58
CIA-38	WebGUI: graham * r10210 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/docs/upgrades/_upgrade.skeleton: unset package flag recursively during upgrades	01:58
CIA-38	WebGUI: graham * r10211 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed #10056: YUI javascripts included while adminOff (BNC)	01:58
+perlDreamer	preaction, I did something really funny/stupid the other day	01:59
@preaction	oooh sweet	01:59
+perlDreamer	I tried to add a shortcut to defaultNode, pointing to the import node	01:59
+perlDreamer	and hoped that it would work like a symbolic link in the Asset Manager	02:00
@preaction	heh	02:00
@preaction	but then, it would be nice if shortcuts could work more like symbolic links	02:00
+perlDreamer	it takes 4 clicks to get to the import nod	02:00
+perlDreamer	node	02:00
@preaction	are you not using Arjan's bookmark toolbar?	02:00
@preaction	takes me two clicks	02:01
+perlDreamer	Arjan's bookmark toolbar?	02:01
+perlDreamer	what is this you speak of?	02:02
@preaction	http://www.webgui.org/bazaar/webgui-7-bookmarks-toolbar	02:02
@preaction	the most awesome thing ever	02:02
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+perlDreamer	very interesting	02:06
+perlDreamer	once I get my CSS problem fixed, I'll check that out	02:06
deafferret	perlDreamer: hmm... maybe I need to build out a database on a box I do have root on then. the $admins for the box in questions sometimes hang out in their own irc server -- irc.ist.unomaha.edu	02:17
+perlDreamer	ah	02:18
+perlDreamer	that would be simpler	02:18
deafferret	simpler to have root? k. I'll have to read how to build the schema	02:18
+perlDreamer	mysql -u root < /data/WebGUI/docs/create.sql	02:19
+perlDreamer	or, use the WRE	02:19
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+perlDreamer	patspam, you must be prophetic	02:25
+perlDreamer	everyone wants WNN to be a CS	02:25
+patspam	WNN?	02:26
+patspam	CS?	02:26
+perlDreamer	WebGUI Network News, Collaboration System	02:27
+patspam	ahh!	02:27
+patspam	WNN++	02:27
+patspam	i want it on twitter, facebook, slashdot, dig, and um, put a video of it on youtube	02:28
+perlDreamer	video?	02:28
@preaction	YES	02:28
+perlDreamer	eek	02:28
@preaction	WebGUI VLOG!	02:28
+perlDreamer	of course, the real problem is that the WebGUI Network doesn't really exist	02:30
CIA-38	WebGUI: brian * r10212 /releases/WebGUI_7.6.19-stable: Release 7.6.19-stable	02:32
CIA-38	WebGUI: brian * r10213 /releases/WebGUI_7.6.19-stable/WebGUI_7.6: Release 7.6.19-stable	02:32
CIA-38	WebGUI: graham * r10214 /releases/WebGUI_7.6.19-stable/WebGUI_7.6: remove accidental addition to release tag	02:32
* perlDreamer heads back to the main office		02:37
+perlDreamer	bbl	02:37
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CIA-38	WebGUI: brian * r10215 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (4 files in 4 dirs): preparing for 7.6.20 dev	03:02
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+perlDreamer	I just don't want to believe this	04:47
+perlDreamer	two months of delay	04:47
+perlDreamer	because I forgot a quote	04:47
@preaction	whoooops	04:47
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: eh?	04:47
+perlDreamer	I've been trying to make some small style changes to my website	04:48
+perlDreamer	to add a login box and admin toggle	04:48
+perlDreamer	but I couldn't get them to place where I wanted them	04:48
+perlDreamer	I've tried tons and tons of things	04:48
+perlDreamer	but either they were wrong, or in this last case	04:48
+perlDreamer	<div id="newClass>	04:49
+perlDreamer	is ignored because it misses an end quote	04:49
+perlDreamer	let me finish it up, commit the version tag, then you can see (and laugh)	04:49
+perlDreamer	and rightfully so :)	04:49
+perlmonkey2	wow, you forget a literal quote. So two month delay on a project?	04:51
+perlDreamer	well, to log into my site I had to add all the query params for login, logout and admin mode	04:55
+perlDreamer	and other people couldn't create accounts to post back to my blog	04:55
+perlDreamer	so it was more embarrasing and inconvenient than anything	04:55
+perlDreamer	time to run the kids through the wash	04:55
+perlDreamer	I'll be on and off for the next few hours	04:55
+perlDreamer	back to the showers	05:29
+perlDreamer	phew	06:04
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* perlDreamer is out for a while		06:47
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10216 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Form/ (SelectRichEditor.pm Textarea.pm): Missing POD for Textarea, SelectRichEditor	06:49
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@tavisto	Lookie what I found... A new article by JT Smith!	07:31
@tavisto	http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/The-Stack-Encouraging-Adoption-Through-Ease-of-Use-66743.html	07:31
+perlDreamer	tavisto, there's a typo	07:47
* perlDreamer blows a raspberry, and goes to bed		07:47
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@tavisto	Kristi proofread	07:47
@tavisto	hah	07:48
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CIA-38	WebGUI: translation * r10217 /translations/Polish/Polish/ (20 files): Update from translation server	11:11
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CIA-38	WebGUI: patspam * r10218 /WebGUI/ (5 files in 2 dirs):	11:44
CIA-38	WebGUI: Replaced Survey parseGotoExpression with dedicated ExpressionEngine.	11:44
CIA-38	WebGUI: Improved gotoExpression validation error reporting	11:44
CIA-38	WebGUI: Added lots more tests	11:44
CIA-38	WebGUI: patspam * r10219 /WebGUI/ (5 files in 3 dirs):	11:44
CIA-38	WebGUI: Made Survey ExpressionEngine disabled by default, controlled via config	11:44
CIA-38	WebGUI: file enableSurveyExpressionEngine flag	11:44
CIA-38	WebGUI: Added branching based on question score and section score total	11:44
CIA-38	WebGUI: Added more tests	11:44
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+SynQ	hoeba	14:31
+BartJol	hoeba	14:31
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CIA-38	WebGUI: koen * r10220 /wrebuild/build.sh: fixed typo in IA64 variable	15:14
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CIA-38	WebGUI: koen * r10221 /wrebuild/build.sh: Added ia64 options to build.sh	17:16
+SynQ	more 64 bit more better :)	17:17
+SynQ	is JT better yet?	17:17
+MrHairgrease	jt is ill?	17:17
+SynQ	I don't now if he still is but I heared that he was	17:18
+MrHairgrease	ok	17:18
+MrHairgrease	must be of your never ending nagging about wre's =)	17:18
+SynQ	(16:00:01) tavisto: JT was out sick yesterday and it sounds like he's still not feeling well today	17:18
+SynQ	perhaps someone has rick rolled him into sickness	17:19
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+MrHairgrease	hey freddie!	18:06
+MrHairgrease	more dutch guys in the room!	18:06
freddiecompier	hoi	18:06
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+perlDreamer	hey, tavisto!	18:48
+perlDreamer	is there some linkage for the linuxinsider article?	18:49
@tavisto	yes, however they kinda jacked it up a bit	18:49
+perlDreamer	the article?	18:50
+MrHairgrease	is there and article about webgui?	18:50
@tavisto	no about The Stack but by JT	18:50
@tavisto	http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/The-Stack-Encouraging-Adoption-Through-Ease-of-Use-66743.html	18:50
@tavisto	they changed one of the paragraphs and took out the Plain Black reference and left WebGUI in there but it doesn't make sense	18:50
+perlDreamer	there was the typo toward the end about getting a WebGUI into debian or ubuntu	18:51
@tavisto	yep.	18:51
@tavisto	whoever edited it down screwed that paragraph up. I'm waiting to see if they can modify it a bit. I told JT we can change WebGUI to "an application" and it would make more sense	18:51
+MrHairgrease	i don't see webgui anywher on that page	18:52
+perlDreamer	MrHairgrease: "and get a WebGUI included in systems"	18:55
+perlDreamer	bad edit	18:55
+MrHairgrease	oh wait	18:57
+MrHairgrease	firefox search thingy was on match case	18:57
+perlDreamer	oh, you sub-micron guys always do that	18:58
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+perlDreamer	brb	19:03
SDuensin	That edit is because people think it is a "Web GUI". Hell, that's how I originally found it!	19:04
SDuensin	(I was looking to see if there were any toolkits to make UIs for command line tools!)	19:05
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nuba	now thats really some crappy touch up they did there	19:27
nuba	"(...) For example, provide commercial hosting, a demo server, VMware appliances, a Web-based install system and native packages run through the community -- and get a WebGUI included in systems like Debian and Ubuntu. (...)"	19:28
nuba	LOL	19:28
bpmedley	https://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/10133	19:29
bpmedley	Has anyone looked at that bug?	19:29
+perlDreamer	no, sorry bpmedley	19:29
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+perlDreamer	bpmedley, I'd check the spec for the new matrix against the old 7.5 code	19:42
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+perlmonkey2	I wonder what it would look like to write all the unit tests before you wrote any other code.	19:49
+perlDreamer	it's not that bad, really	19:50
+perlDreamer	although, practically, people never do that	19:50
+perlDreamer	usually it's done on a sub by sub basis	19:50
+perlmonkey2	Writing tests as an augmentation to the design process?	19:52
+perlDreamer	yes	19:52
+perlDreamer	you know you want a constructor, so you write tests for everything it should do	19:52
+perlDreamer	then you write the code to make it do that	19:52
+perlDreamer	it forces you to think through things before you start writing code	19:52
+perlDreamer	and prevents creep :)	19:53
+perlDreamer	I've done that with the StoryManager	19:53
+perlDreamer	and it works pretty well	19:53
+perlDreamer	also, it pretty much forces you to write code which is testable	19:53
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10222 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (205 files in 69 dirs): merge to 10219	19:54
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10223 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (lib/WebGUI/Asset/Story.pm t/Asset/Story.t): Update Story to use awesome new Keywords	19:54
+perlDreamer	a lot of my www_ methods are wrappers around calls to set template variables, do side effects, process form variables	19:54
+perlDreamer	so that they can be tested in chunks	19:54
+perlmonkey2	I'm really guilty of writing mega-methods that do many things. Writing the tests first would help break those down.	19:54
+perlDreamer	and, for those who like eye candy	19:55
+perlDreamer	I found this today: http://szabgab.com/blog/2009/04/1239191451.html	19:55
+perlDreamer	very nicely formatted HTML test output	19:56
+perlDreamer	enabled with JS for reporting and drill-down	19:56
+perlDreamer	another nice thing about having tons of tests is parallel development	19:59
+perlDreamer	Haarg changed how Keywords work	20:00
+perlmonkey2	hah, nice	20:00
+perlDreamer	and my tests are telling me what code needs to be updated	20:00
+perlDreamer	yeah, normally it's a pain when that happens	20:00
+perlDreamer	even when the code gets better and the Keywords form autocompletes	20:00
+perlDreamer	but with these tests, it's only about 15 minutes work to get everything updated and working again	20:01
+perlDreamer	merge with head, run tests, sigh, fix tests and code, done	20:01
+perlDreamer	and the "sigh" is just for dramatic effect, since I knew it was going to happen anyway	20:01
+cap10morgan	i'm setting up webgui in an ec2 instance, and would like to script the wreconsole setup process. what's the best way to do that? should i write a command-line driven version of wreconsole.pl?	20:07
+cap10morgan	or could i just include wreconsole.pl somehow and call its subs directly?	20:07
SDuensin	cap10morgan - EC2 hurts my head. Been screwing with that for the last three days. Interesting stuff.	20:07
+cap10morgan	SDuensin: yeah	20:08
+cap10morgan	we're using it through RightScale	20:08
+cap10morgan	which is very cool	20:08
+cap10morgan	but they've never encountered WebGUI	20:08
SDuensin	Check this out - spiffy: http://developer.amazonwebservices.com/connect/thread.jspa?threadID=24091&start=15&tstart=0	20:08
+cap10morgan	so i'm now the expert in the equation	20:08
+cap10morgan	which is always bad news	20:08
SDuensin	No kidding!	20:09
+cap10morgan	wow, yeah	20:09
SDuensin	That EBS pivot makes things a lot simpler. :-)	20:09
SDuensin	Not had time to try it. Just found it about 15 minutes ago.	20:10
SDuensin	I'm not looking to put WG on EC2 just yet, but maybe that'll help you become the resident expert here for when I do. :-P	20:12
+cap10morgan	yeah, be very afraid...	20:23
+perlDreamer	cap10morgan, you're just a trend setter	20:24
+perlDreamer	OpenID, now EC2	20:24
+cap10morgan	haha :)	20:24
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10224 /branch/WebGUI_Story/t/Asset/Wobject/StoryArchive.t: Update StoryArchive test for new Keywords CSV.	20:27
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10225 /branch/WebGUI_Story/t/Asset/Wobject/StoryTopic.t: Update StoryTopic tests for CSV Keywords	20:27
CIA-38	WebGUI: yung * r10226 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Wobject/Carousel.t: added tests for Carousel wobject	20:27
+perlmonkey2	ugh, finding yui2.6 docs is a pain.	20:31
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2, they're in /data/WebGUI/www/extras/yui	20:34
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: yeah, I was looking for them on the YUI site as they need to be http enabled to view the chart examples.	20:36
+perlDreamer	crud	20:37
+perlmonkey2	but browsing the API, it looks like my code is for the cold storage locker until 2.7 comes out.	20:37
+perlDreamer	have you been developing against 2.7?	20:41
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: well of course	20:43
+perlmonkey2	:P	20:43
+perlmonkey2	but looks like my problem isn't a 2.7 issue...�new�YAHOO.widget.NumericAxis();�is failing, but I'm not sure what lib needs to be included for it.	20:44
+perlDreamer	in 2.6, is Charts in beta?	20:44
+perlDreamer	that'd be a name change	20:44
+perlDreamer	which really sucks!	20:44
+perlmonkey2	not much code. Just a short blip for the summary stuff. When we move to 2.7 there will be little pain.	20:45
+perlmonkey2	But it will be teh sexies if I could get it to work.	20:46
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2, in 2.6, it's "charts-experimental"	20:47
+perlDreamer	does that help?	20:47
+perlDreamer	charts/charts-experimental, that is	20:48
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: hahahahha, you brilliant beautiful jackaroo	20:49
+perlDreamer	oh, shucks. It's not me	20:49
+perlDreamer	it's ack --js	20:49
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CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10227 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Remove storiesPerFeed, since that's picked up by the RSS Aspect.	20:54
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CIA-38	WebGUI: yung * r10228 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Added Carousel to upgrade script, some code cleanup and template changes	21:25
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* perlDreamer goes running		21:30
+perlDreamer	good luck with connectivity, Haarg	21:30
@Haarg	it's basically resolved	21:30
@Haarg	was chaning isps at home, but had to run to the office	21:31
* deafferret goes chewing		21:44
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10229 /branch/WebGUI_Story/docs/upgrades/ (3 files in 2 dirs):	21:58
CIA-38	WebGUI: Move packages into 7.7.3 for proper upgrade processing.	21:58
CIA-38	WebGUI: Remove extra package for storytopic.	21:58
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10230 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/AssetAspect/RssFeed.pm: Add missing POD for RssFeed methods.	21:58
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+perlmonkey2	Anyone had any success getting a dataTipFunction to work in YUI 2.6 charts?	22:06
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CIA-38	WebGUI: yung * r10231 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/www/extras/wobject/Matrix/matrixListing.js: removed debugging form matrix listing javascript	22:59
CIA-38	WebGUI: yung * r10232 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): fixed #10110: Matrix 2.0 - "Data Error" on Pending Product Listing Updates	22:59
CIA-38	WebGUI: brian * r10233 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Added back maximum number of comparisons for a group.	22:59
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CIA-38	WebGUI: yung * r10234 /WebGUI/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Added 'too few/many' messages to matrix compare box, rfe# 9965	23:39
CIA-38	WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r10235 /WebGUI/ (7 files in 6 dirs): Survey summaries now use YUI datatables and charts for extra bling.	23:39
* perlDreamer is back, and very tired		23:46
--- Day changed Thu Apr 09 2009
+perlDreamer	oh, let's just run this little loop, it'll be fine	00:11
+perlDreamer	1.5 miles later...	00:12
deafferret	ya, I had the same problem eating. jogging and eating are the same slippery slopes	00:13
+perlDreamer	indeed. What did you do?	00:14
deafferret	I'll just eat this little $food, it'll be fine. 1200 calories later... :)	00:14
deafferret	1.5 Kcal later...	00:15
+perlDreamer	the scary part is how easy it is to eat 1.5 Kcal.	00:15
+perlDreamer	That's 1 Chipotle burrito with all the fixings	00:15
deafferret	actually a food calorie is 1000 science calories, so you're Screwed :)	00:16
+perlDreamer	we should all just use hoolies instead	00:17
CIA-38	WebGUI: yung * r10236 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt: updating changelog	00:18
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10237 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Wobject/Collaboration.t: add tests for RSS feeds for the Collaboration	00:18
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+perlDreamer	arjan cracks me up	00:50
Mech422	I'm back - didja miss me ?	00:58
+perlDreamer	oh yeah	00:58
+perlDreamer	there was something that I needed to tell you Mech422	00:58
+perlDreamer	related to WebGUI	00:59
Mech422	tavisto: we submitted on the re-bid of that austin contract - we'll see how it goes...	00:59
+perlDreamer	oh!	00:59
Mech422	perlDreamer: aww - you like me!! you really really like me !! :-)	00:59
+perlDreamer	cap10morgan is looking at scripting wreconsole setups, which sounds like your provisioning work	00:59
Mech422	oh - that does sound cool :-)	00:59
+perlDreamer	you two might want to get together and talk sometime	00:59
+perlDreamer	also, have you read the inaugural issues of WebGUI Network News?	01:00
Mech422	no, I'm ashamed to say I haven't - I shall remedy that immediately ! It's on pb website, I presume ?	01:00
+perlDreamer	nope	01:00
+perlDreamer	perldreamer.com/blog	01:00
Mech422	ahh - yes, the pd website :-D	01:01
* perlDreamer needs to -- -- some time and fix that problem		01:01
+cap10morgan	i have the WRE installing and configuring via script now	01:01
+cap10morgan	but i need to get a git repo of webgui setup because we have local mods	01:02
+perlDreamer	cap10morgan, meet Mech422	01:02
+perlDreamer	Mech422, meet cap10morgan	01:02
* Mech422 waves!		01:02
+cap10morgan	hello :)	01:02
+perlDreamer	cap10morgan is our local OpenId user, he's also a frequent WUC attender	01:02
+perlDreamer	Mech422 is a recent WebGUI convert, coming from plone-ville	01:03
Mech422	actually, I've forgotten what I had to futz with wre install - it was _site_ installation/configuration that I really had trouble scripting	01:03
+cap10morgan	ah	01:03
Mech422	cap10morgan: ahh :-) Nice to meet you :-)	01:03
+cap10morgan	you too Mech422	01:03
+perlDreamer	cap10morgan, if you think those are good core WRE changes, you should talk with SynQ and rizen about contributing it back.	01:04
+cap10morgan	yeah, i plan to	01:05
+cap10morgan	i think it's pretty generic	01:05
+cap10morgan	i'm using it w/ rightscale / ec2	01:05
+cap10morgan	so it can get pretty specific to that environment if i'm not careful	01:05
+perlDreamer	still, it's a good start that could probably be abstracted out	01:05
* cap10morgan wishes webgui was already in git		01:05
+cap10morgan	yeah	01:06
+perlDreamer	soon, cap10morgan	01:06
+perlDreamer	WG8 dev is supposed to be in git	01:06
+cap10morgan	yeah, i can't wait	01:06
+cap10morgan	:)	01:06
+cap10morgan	i'll just have to clone the svn repo for now	01:06
Mech422	perlDreamer: hey - wGNN looks good...	01:09
+perlDreamer	thanks :)	01:10
+perlDreamer	due to overwhelming demand, it will become a CS	01:10
Mech422	perlDreamer: who do I complain to about the re-write being PHP based instead of Python like god and Guido intended ?	01:10
+perlDreamer	you would talk to rizen about that	01:10
+perlDreamer	and, should anything bad happen to you during or shortly after that, is there anyone I should notify?	01:10
Mech422	nah - Python is a type safe language :-)	01:11
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+perlDreamer	rizen isn't :/	01:11
Mech422	ROFL	01:12
@preaction_	Python promotes sloppy coding style	01:12
@preaction_	no braces? how do i know when a block ends?	01:12
Mech422	preaction_: LOL	01:12
+perlDreamer	preaction_: you line up all the little whitespaces	01:12
+perlDreamer	or blackspaces, if you have an inverted terminal	01:13
+perlDreamer	preaction_: I was going to ask you something else.	01:13
@preaction_	but then i have to do something like # { and #} to make things look right	01:13
+perlDreamer	If we're going to switch Template::Toolkit, can we really poke fun at PHP?	01:13
Mech422	preaction_: and it causes RSI - what no #%^#^% symbols ? thats gonna wear out your alpha-numeric keys faster!	01:13
@preaction_	exactly!	01:13
@preaction_	scoping? what scoping? assignment is declaration? what is that?	01:13
* preaction_ is pointing out the things he actually likes about Python :p		01:14
Mech422	I actually think the whitespace thing was a mistake - I'd prefer braces myself...I think guido just put that in there to meet the 'advancing the state of the art' part of his masters thesis :-P	01:14
Mech422	especially since jerks use tabs and throw the code 72 columns right on the line :-P	01:15
@preaction_	eh, i think he's right. both novice and professionals are made to code using the same style guidelines	01:15
@preaction_	and it's far easier to change the indentation than it is to change the entire syntax	01:15
@preaction_	perltidy works, but when was that made?	01:15
Mech422	preaction_: oh yeah - the 'only one _approved_ way to do it' mentality does limit learnign curve	01:16
Mech422	preaction_: but that could have been done with braces too :-P	01:16
Mech422	preaction_: my biggest gripe are def foo(a=b): print "%s" % a ...	01:17
Mech422	in a = b, b is evaluated _once_ (the first time) - _not_ everytime the statement is hit as most people would expect	01:18
Mech422	in "%s" % a - using a sigleton or a tuple for print args but NOT taking a list is a bit confusing	01:19
Mech422	so now I need to figure out how I screwed my wG theme - 'drag' works, but 'drop' doesnt :-P	01:21
@tavisto	mech422, which project are you referring to?	01:24
Mech422	tavisto - that project that cignex got, that everyone was up in arms about...	01:25
@tavisto	oh hey that's great news	01:26
Mech422	tavisto: people put up so much of a fuss, town council cancelled cignex's contract, and re-bidd the job	01:26
@tavisto	pretty sizable dealio too if I remember right	01:26
@tavisto	Plain Black could definitely help you out with any aspects you may need	01:26
Mech422	last round bids were - $700K , $1.3M, $1.3M	01:26
Mech422	they specified Plone as the CMS - and we have a 'partner' (associate? client? whatever) in austin that we do plone work for ..	01:27
Mech422	so they are going in as the primary, and we'll prolly sub under them	01:28
Mech422	assuming they get it, that is :-)	01:28
@tavisto	ah okay so nevermind that :)	01:41
@tavisto	too bad, they could have had WebGUI. We've got a couple city government internet/intranet projects coming out soon. That should help us reel in some more of them	01:42
* perlDreamer slaps his forehead! He could have had a WebGUI-8		01:45
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10238 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/AssetAspect/RssFeed.pm: More RssFeed POD.	01:46
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10239 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (lib/WebGUI/Asset/Story.pm t/Asset/Story.t): Add a method to return RSS data for a Story, with tests.	01:46
Mech422	tavisto: yeah - but its nice the work won't be going to India	01:46
Mech422	tavisto: hmm - I actually know a company that does small city/town sites - they're looking to update their offering ...	01:47
Mech422	tavisto: it would be very small potatoes - but might be good for some ref. clients ?	01:47
+perlDreamer	more WebGUI users and installations is almost always good	01:47
Mech422	perlDreamer: heh - 'almost' - their current offering is based on postnuke ....	01:48
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@tavisto	Mech422 yeah I'm very happy about keeping money in america right now	01:57
Mech422	tavisto: do you have any links/screenshots/writeups for the gov stuff ?	01:58
@tavisto	Mech422 let me know about ad:tech San Francisco, we'll be there on the 20-24th	01:58
Mech422	oh crap - totally spaced that - lemme see...	01:58
@tavisto	well we have a whitepaper that includes some government stuff. And a list of government sites.	01:58
Mech422	could you shoot me a url or a copy ?	01:59
Mech422	I just spoke to the tech guy at the co. I mentioned above - he'd love to get away from postnuke if possible :-P	01:59
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CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10240 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (2 files in 2 dirs):	02:12
CIA-38	WebGUI: getRssFeedItems for StoryArchive, with tests.	02:12
CIA-38	WebGUI: A couple of quick rss/atom url tests.	02:12
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@tavisto	Mech422, I gotta bolt atm, but I'll definitely send you over a copy of the whitepaper	02:27
Mech422	tavisto: whenever you get a chance	02:27
Mech422	tavisto: oh, it looks like we can make ad-tech	02:27
@tavisto	great, send me an email with the full names of who is attending and I'll get you registered	02:28
@tavisto	bye all	02:28
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+patspam	perlmonkey2: pingo	02:28
Mech422	<tmpl_var dragger.init> <- should this go after _every_ content block, or just once after _all_ content blocks ?	02:40
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@preaction_	Mech422: i think just after all of them	02:55
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wgGuest55	Hello	03:14
wgGuest55	when will 64-bit WRE be released?	03:14
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Mech422	preaction_: thanks :-)	03:20
Mech422	it appear ^PageTitle() renders an anchor, so it shouldn't be used in <title />	03:23
Mech422	(I think I saw <title>^PageTitle(); - ^c(); </title> recommended somewhere ..)	03:24
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+perlDreamer	Mech422, it will render an anchor if used in the context of an operation, or a function.	03:36
+perlDreamer	for an op, it should not be a problem	03:36
+perlDreamer	but for a func...	03:36
+perlDreamer	if it was part of the style template	03:37
+perlDreamer	I mean, if the style template was rendered for the func	03:37
+perlDreamer	which is theoretically possible	03:37
+perlDreamer	I'd file that as a bug, along with all the details	03:38
Mech422	yeah - it was in a style template	03:39
+perlDreamer	what was the URL when you saw that?	03:41
Mech422	<a href='pagename' />	03:41
Mech422	err.. href = '/pagename'	03:42
+perlDreamer	no, what was the URL of the page containing that?	03:42
Mech422	it was for 'home' - the front (default) page and it rendered as a href='/home'	03:42
Mech422	I'm actually more concerned with why drag and drop doesn't work	03:43
Mech422	I get the admin frame, I get the drag handles - I can drag the handles - but when I 'drop' them, nothing moves	03:44
+perlDreamer	do you have all the required scripts being loaded?	03:44
Mech422	beats me - the docs just say to include some magic macro in <head> and it will do it all ?	03:45
Mech422	I have a bunch of YUI stuff getting included ?	03:46
* perlDreamer has never built a style or layout template from scratch. I always start with an existing one.		03:46
Mech422	I started with an existing one too	03:46
+perlDreamer	hm	03:46
+perlDreamer	maybe tomorrow I could take a look at it for you?	03:46
Mech422	(btw - I have a draggable.js getting included ... and draggable.css)	03:46
Mech422	that would be nice of you :-)	03:47
+perlDreamer	find me tomorrow in the morning time (PDT) and I'll have a look at it	03:47
Mech422	cool	03:47
Mech422	we should write up what we do to - for the 'task oriented' stuff we discussed last week	03:48
Mech422	assuming I understand what we do, I can write it up	03:48
+perlDreamer	sure, "debugging layout templates" :)	03:48
Mech422	yeah - and 'more required macros for layout templates' - like that dragger.init thing thats not really discussed in the docs	03:49
@preaction_	or instead you could fix layout to use YUI Event and YUI Dom instead	03:49
Mech422	preaction_: ?	03:49
+perlDreamer	I thought it had been changed to do that already?	03:49
@preaction_	if you fix Layout, you don't need all the draggable triggers bullcrap	03:49
@preaction_	no, it should be possible to do the layout template with only needing <div id="GUID" class="contentArea">	03:50
@preaction_	so any item with class="contentArea" and an ID will be a content area for a Layout	03:50
Mech422	that sort of thing would be great for designers	03:50
@preaction_	exactly	03:50
@preaction_	no more BS	03:50
Mech422	at this point, just for reference - I've put about 12 hours in, in 3 hour chunks - on 'converting' a monster template layout	03:52
Mech422	which I think would be a fairly common task for the 'average' user/integrator	03:52
@preaction_	well, layout templates arent really supposed to be edited	03:53
@preaction_	the style template is	03:53
@preaction_	layout template shouldn't need much editing really	03:53
Mech422	the problem with this template was the content wasn't all in one chunk...	03:53
Mech422	I had 2 seperate tables with stuff inbetween, so I used a layout template	03:54
Mech422	granted I think the html/css is pretty convuluted for such a simple design - but thats what I was given...	03:54
@preaction_	i'm not second-guessing you, you're probably right for what you need, but be careful you don't put style elements in the Layout template	03:54
Mech422	preaction_: oh? I didn't realize it was bad form to do so...	03:54
@preaction_	if you do, you'll break other stuff	03:54
Mech422	preaction_: crap	03:55
@preaction_	or you'll have to make a special style for other stuff which is more work	03:55
@preaction_	really, your style should be everything that will be constant from page to page	03:55
Mech422	preaction_: I would think that layout changes would be common as well - since everyone 'chunks' content diffently...yeah, I have a layout and a style	03:55
@preaction_	but i agree that layouts need to be easier to edit	03:56
Mech422	and I was gonna make one of those preconfigured-on-the-admin-bar content types to allow pages to be added easily without having to set the layout/style manually	03:56
@preaction_	also, we should integrate YUI Grids and make a nice GUI editor for some templates	03:56
@preaction_	Mech422: you mean Prototypes?	03:56
@preaction_	check the Metadata tab, any asset can be made a prototype	03:57
Mech422	umm - yeah - prototypes :-)	03:57
Mech422	thats the coolest thing	03:57
@preaction_	eh, there's cooler stuff ;)	03:57
Mech422	the 'humane cms' is a buzzword in plone - it has sooo many features people get overwhelmed	03:57
Mech422	so its considered good form to turn off unused features, pre-configure content types etc	03:58
@preaction_	heh, i think webgui's moving that direction, but uilevels help a little bit	03:58
Mech422	but we don't have a system as easy as prototypes for doing it	03:58
@preaction_	actually, if you want an asset type to always have a certain default set, you can do so in the config file now	03:58
@preaction_	so you don't have a difference between "Page Layout" and "Page Layout for My Site"	03:59
@preaction_	i wonder if anyone has written about using UI Levels and Config File asset overrides to make an easier-to-use webgui site	03:59
Mech422	I think the big thing now is transitioning the 'target market' of docs and stuff from people who _want_ webgui to people who _need_ webgui	04:00
Mech422	I have $200+ worth of books on wg, and about half that in books on plone	04:00
Mech422	the plone books did a good job of doing 'low end' stuff, day to day stuff - a poor job of the middle ground stuff, and what seemed to be a decent job of the 'hard stuff'	04:01
+patspam	anyone else ever see errors like: WebGUI::Storage::_addError[105] - Couldn't create file /uploads/mysite/25/b5/25b530d77b0c305bff2519cc31e9af10/.wgaccess because No such file or directory?	04:01
@preaction_	compare our installed base though, and the developer community	04:01
+patspam	and when you look, the file actually exists	04:01
@preaction_	patspam: uh... that's rather weird	04:01
Mech422	the webgui books seem to skip the 'low end' stuff - do a so-so job on the mid-level, and really shine at the high end	04:02
@preaction_	it's only relatively recently that WebGUI's dev community is starting to flourish again.	04:02
Mech422	I've read all about cool concepts and foundations in wg, but haven't really been shown how they workd together/how to use them	04:02
+patspam	the files and surrounding dirs are owned by webgui, so doesn't appear to be a permission thing..	04:02
Mech422	preaction_: right - its only natural that programmers write docs for programmers...	04:03
@preaction_	right, and we want to get away from that really	04:03
Mech422	preaction_: but as wG grows, fewer of the users will be programmers	04:03
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@preaction_	oh, no, there has always been a small ratio of programmers : users. i think where we differ is in what tasks you're trying to complete	04:04
Mech422	preaction_: really?	04:04
@preaction_	you're trying to complete designer tasks, and those docs are written by either our designers, or our programmers	04:05
Mech422	yeah - designer and admin tasks - basic site layout, some access control etc	04:06
@preaction_	so there could be a disparity between what we write about and what we assume the audience knows already	04:06
@preaction_	that's a huge problem in any technical writing though. too much background and you bore the reader, too little background and you confuse the reader	04:06
Mech422	yeah - I recall a lot of basic html/css stuff in the (designers?) book	04:07
@preaction_	probably	04:07
Mech422	which I would think people wanting to use a CMS should already know, or have dedicated book for	04:07
Mech422	anyway, growing pains are a sign of growth :-)	04:08
@preaction_	it might be nice to put "Designing for WebGUI: The Basics" and "Designing for WebGUI: Advanced Topics" into seperate books, but then you've got costs and people saying you're just in it for the money, etc...	04:08
@preaction_	yeah, and we've got a wonderful group of dedicated people (especially those outside of Plain Black)	04:09
@preaction_	so things have never been better and are only going to keep getting better	04:09
Mech422	preaction_: well - if you have an 'integrators' track and an 'end users' track on the books, you could probably mitagate soem of that	04:09
@preaction_	heh, i should blog about how the last three years have gone. i get my new PB-supplied laptop in 6 months, i could write a novel in that time (and i have enough content to do so)	04:10
Mech422	preaction_: then people could just by the books in the 'track' they need	04:10
Mech422	preaction_: 6 months to get a lappie? where do you live ?? alaska ??	04:10
@preaction_	no, that's the 3-year mark, that's when i get it	04:10
@preaction_	every 3 years we get a new lappy	04:10
Mech422	ahh - cool :-)	04:11
@preaction_	so i'm thinking playing up the angle of "my first apple laptop, and the WebGUI adventure"	04:11
@preaction_	hemingway, eat your heart out	04:11
Mech422	btw - donna and I just by whatever book we think is 'best' and send that to our clients as 'documentation'...	04:11
Mech422	lol	04:11
Mech422	anyway, we dont have time/staff to produce our own manuals so we buy them retail and give them to clients	04:12
Mech422	we'd probably do the same with wG	04:12
@preaction_	JT's gonna be at adtech right?	04:13
Mech422	I'm not sure - tavisto is I believe	04:14
@preaction_	tavis and kristi would be the best people to talk about the books with	04:15
+perlDreamer	patspam: /uploads is a root level directory	04:16
+perlDreamer	does it really exist?	04:16
+perlDreamer	or is there some error in the error message? :/	04:16
* perlDreamer will be right back		04:16
+patspam	perlDreamer: it does exist on my server	04:16
+perlDreamer	email on the way, patspam.	04:33
+patspam	sweet :)	04:33
* perlDreamer is heading off to orchestra practice for easter, and I won't be back on until tomorrow morning.		04:33
+perlDreamer	l8r	04:33
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wgGuest45	Hello I have a question about the collaboration system on webgui	04:34
@preaction_	wgGuest45: no need to ask to ask, just ask	04:39
wgGuest45	How can I make attached files visible when using the "topics" option?	04:40
wgGuest45	For the collaboration system template	04:40
@preaction_	what is the "topics" option? if files are not showing up, you will need to edit the template	04:41
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wgGuest45	When I am setting the display options for the collaboration system, there is a pull down menu for choosing the master template, and one of those is topics. I want to use this option, but I also want it to show the attached files in the threads.	04:43
+patspam	preaction_: the error message about "No such file" always appears 1 second before the .wgacess file gets created	04:43
@preaction_	wgGuest45: what you want to do is take the Topics template and modify it to do what you want	04:43
wgGuest45	right now it just shows what is written in the thread, but not the attached file.	04:43
wgGuest45	Ok, how do I do that?	04:43
wgGuest45	I know how to get to the modify, but what do I need to write in it.	04:44
@preaction_	if you look in the Help file, there's all the template variables for every template. One of them is called "Collaboration Template". if you need help with the HTML::Template language, there are plenty of documents on the web on how to use it	04:44
wgGuest45	ok	04:45
+perlmonkey2	patspam: pongo	04:45
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@preaction_	wgGuest45: i believe it's called something like "attachmentLoop"	04:46
+patspam	perlmonkey2: I got some weird js error when trying to view the yui charts	04:46
+perlmonkey2	patspam: hmm...checking email now	04:47
+perlmonkey2	patspam: hmm, just did a svn revert and a wgd revert and it worked out of the	04:52
+perlmonkey2	box	04:52
+perlmonkey2	patspam: anymore info on the error message?	04:52
+patspam	hmmm maybe it's my setup	04:52
+patspam	I'll try again	04:53
+perlmonkey2	patspam: I ack'd for console.log man, I swear I did :P	04:57
+patspam	heheh	04:57
+patspam	works in opera	04:58
+perlmonkey2	patspam: I'm on 3.0.8 in Fedora and it works.	04:58
+perlmonkey2	I'll disable firbug and see if that was making it work..	04:58
+perlmonkey2	Hmm firebug off/on, admin on/off, doesn't matter.	04:59
+patspam	yeah... i thought it might have been adblock, but that didn't do it..	04:59
+perlmonkey2	patspam: You know, I was getting a random unreferenced javascript flash error that didn't every break anything, but magically came and went. #yui didn't have a clue. I just wrote it off to -experimental.	05:01
+patspam	ok, must be one of my extensions, works fine when i start with "firefox -safe-mode"	05:01
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+perlmonkey2	just got it to show up again after reloading a few times.try { __flash__toXML(YAHOO.widget.FlashA... { "<exception>" + e + "</exception>"; }	05:02
+patspam	i think it IS adblock	05:03
+patspam	cheeky thing breaks the page even when it's disabled!	05:04
+perlmonkey2	cough cough noscript	05:05
+perlmonkey2	patspam: but that is an issue. People will be using noscript	05:05
+perlmonkey2	err, I mean adblock	05:06
+Radix-wrk	I use adblock plus	05:06
+Radix-wrk	your comment might explain why I get js errors with vimeo videos though	05:07
+Radix-wrk	doesn't bother me as it's just a click to get through.. but it explains them ;)	05:07
+patspam	perlmonkey2: none of the yui chart examples break for me with adblock turned on.. something we're doing must be triggering it	05:10
+patspam	perlmonkey2: bizarre, works fine on Andy's computer, using same firefox, same adblock plus 1.0.1	05:17
+patspam	only difference is I'm ubuntu, he's mac	05:17
+patspam	btw the charting is awesome :)	05:19
+perlmonkey2	patspam: heh, it is pretty. But nothing fancy.	05:20
+perlmonkey2	patspam: I'm going to clean it up a bit and see if I can find what's going on.	05:23
+patspam	don't worry too much if you can't track it down, sounds like it might be a weird race condition or something that the next version of YUI or adblock might hopefully fix	05:23
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+perlmonkey2	Someone want to do me a favor? For some reason I can't export the survey.css file to add it to the update package. Could someone add this to the survey.css and add it to the updates? chart	05:35
+perlmonkey2	{	05:35
+perlmonkey2	float: left;	05:35
+perlmonkey2	width: 200px;	05:35
+perlmonkey2	height: 113px;	05:35
+perlmonkey2	}	05:35
+perlmonkey2	#chart	05:35
wgGuest62	I am not sure how to get attachments to show on the master view of a collaboration system. I was told to edit it, and i have done that. I'm not sure I'm using the right variable.	05:36
wgGuest62	Do I need to make an attachmentLoop?	05:36
wgGuest62	and then put <tmpl_var attachment.url> into that?	05:37
CIA-38	WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r10241 /WebGUI/www/extras/wobject/Survey/ (administersurvey/comm.js administersurvey.js): cleaned up the code	06:03
+patspam	perlmonkey2: pastebin me that css and I'll add it	06:09
+perlmonkey2	thanks patspam: http://pastebin.com/d51bf8011	06:10
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+patspam	what about .chart_title?	06:16
+patspam	that and the old #chart css rule are in default survey summary	06:16
+patspam	as well as the text "450 300" =p	06:16
CIA-38	WebGUI: patspam * r10242 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/packages-7.7.3/survey.css.wgpkg: Added changes to survey.css for Kaleb	06:28
+perlmonkey2	patspam: .chart_title isn't being used and I'll check in the updated surveysummary without the inline css ;)	06:31
+perlmonkey2	thanks	06:31
+patspam	np :)	06:31
+perlmonkey2	g'night all	06:45
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CIA-38	WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r10243 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/packages-7.7.3/root_import_survey_default-survey-summary.wgpkg: Removed duplicate css from template.	07:01
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CIA-38	WebGUI: patspam * r10244 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs):	07:31
CIA-38	WebGUI: Survey branch expressions can now resolve score()s and value()s from	07:31
CIA-38	WebGUI: other survey instances.	07:31
CIA-38	WebGUI: patspam * r10245 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Wobject/Survey/ExpressionEngine.t: Updated Survey tests to not leave behind versionTag	07:31
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CIA-38	WebGUI: patspam * r10246 /WebGUI/ (5 files in 3 dirs):	09:16
CIA-38	WebGUI: Updated Survey help (recordedAnswer, Answer Score, etc..)	09:16
CIA-38	WebGUI: Fixed behaviour of Survey Question textInButton	09:16
CIA-38	WebGUI: patspam * r10247 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs):	09:16
CIA-38	WebGUI: Made Survey use question default score if answer score undefined,	09:16
CIA-38	WebGUI: updated hoverHelp	09:16
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CIA-38	WebGUI: patspam * r10248 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 3 dirs):	10:01
CIA-38	WebGUI: Fixed up Passive Analytics config install (wasn't added to	10:01
CIA-38	WebGUI: WebGUI.conf.original in version 7.7.70)	10:01
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CIA-38	WebGUI: patspam * r10249 /WebGUI/ (6 files in 5 dirs):	11:27
CIA-38	WebGUI: Fixed small bug in Survey validation where invalid branch expressions	11:27
CIA-38	WebGUI: wouldn't be shown	11:27
CIA-38	WebGUI: Improved and i18n'ed Survey validation warning container	11:27
CIA-38	WebGUI: patspam * r10250 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey/SurveyJSON.pm:	11:27
CIA-38	WebGUI: Added new Survey validation check - jump expressions defined when	11:27
CIA-38	WebGUI: enableSurveyExpressionEngine disabled site-wide	11:27
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jdanpl	hi every body	16:15
jdanpl	On our server we have little problem with new sites. When I add new site, it seems that there are lack of some elements. For example, on screen I see ^AdminBad(); but not macro's efect. The same with ^AssetProxy(style3_coolmenu);	16:20
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jdanpl	Problem respetcs only new created sites	16:28
jdanpl	There is no way to show admin console. I can managed only by op= links	16:28
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+perlmonkey2	howdy howdy	17:32
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+perlDreamer	Mech422, want to look at templates?	17:55
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, I have no plans for 7.7 commits today (unless you want help fixing stuff)	18:02
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@Haarg	ok	18:04
+perlDreamer	I am going going to run a prove suite with TAP::Html::Formatter, though	18:08
+perlDreamer	I'll bundle it up and post it somewhere you can see it	18:08
+perlDreamer	nice eye candy for reporting	18:09
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+crythias	hello?	18:21
+perlDreamer	hey, crythias	18:21
+crythias	hey. I'm trying to work on a dropdown menu ...	18:21
+perlDreamer	in the nav?	18:22
+crythias	(yes) I need to figure out if something is not top level	18:22
+perlDreamer	where top level is absolute, or relative?	18:22
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+crythias	I'm ... not sure. I think absolute, or at least, absolute with regards to where my nav starts	18:23
+crythias	relative. :)	18:23
+perlDreamer	let me throw some ideas at you, and see if that helps	18:24
+perlDreamer	1) check out the help page for the navigation template variables	18:24
+perlDreamer	2) currentPage.isHome will tell you if you're at the top	18:25
+crythias	I'm looking. I'm trying to say "all children"	18:25
+perlDreamer	where top=default page for the site	18:25
+crythias	or "all descendents"	18:25
+perlDreamer	and all the depth, and relDepth variables should help, too	18:25
+crythias	how do I page.relDepth !=0	18:26
+crythias	or something like.	18:26
+perlDreamer	use tmpl_unless ?	18:26
+perlDreamer	or tmpl_if	18:26
+perlDreamer	since 0 is false	18:26
+crythias	tmpl_if page.relDepth then...	18:26
+crythias	ok.	18:26
+perlDreamer	Haarg, I lied.	18:26
+perlDreamer	fixed some broken POD and a hardcoded extra, and committed	18:27
@Haarg	no problem, i'm not starting on release stuff until afternoon	18:29
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10251 /branch/WebGUI_Story/t/Asset/Story.t: Add tests for title vs headline in RSS.	18:35
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10252 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Add headline field, with templates.	18:35
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10253 /WebGUI/etc/hidden: remove files accidently committed.	18:35
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10254 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey/ExpressionEngine.pm: Fix POD syntax error in ExpressionEngine.	18:35
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10255 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/packages-7.7.3/root_import_carousel.wgpkg: Fix hardcoded extras in the Carousel template.	18:35
Mech422	mornin all	18:50
+perlDreamer	yo, Mech422	18:50
+perlDreamer	before I dive into code, want to talk template?	18:50
Mech422	sure :-) First, can I talk coffee ?	18:50
+perlDreamer	sure, you buying?	18:51
Mech422	LOl - yep, cafe de Mech	18:53
Mech422	you can drink it, or lube your car with it, your choice :-)	18:53
+perlmonkey2	if you can't use it as brick mortar, it isn't considered coffee at my house.	18:54
+perlDreamer	okay, time for some testing eye candy	18:57
+perlDreamer	http://perldreamer.com/uploads/ca/54/ca54e8e117d433b072c755170bbe4ca3/output.html	18:57
+perlDreamer	jquery enabled TAP output	18:57
+perlDreamer	a few notes	18:57
+perlDreamer	the syntax errors are for a script outside of WebGUI	18:57
+perlDreamer	and I've fixed the other failures	18:58
+perlmonkey2	Dude, that is sweet	18:58
+perlDreamer	there's some bug in the JS, though	18:59
+perlDreamer	it doesn't want to close	18:59
Mech422	ooh - purty! thats the automated build/test setup ?	18:59
+perlDreamer	no, it's just a sample TAP HTML formatter	18:59
+perlDreamer	but I think Smolder makes reports like that by default	18:59
@Haarg	another thing i should add to my plans for automated testing though	19:00
+perlmonkey2	woah, your site is smoking my machine with firebug enabled.	19:00
+perlDreamer	it's a huge file, perlmonkey2	19:00
+perlDreamer	691K of data	19:00
+perlDreamer	JS will die	19:00
Mech422	whats a TAP ?	19:00
+perlDreamer	TAP is Test Anything Protocol	19:01
+perlDreamer	it's a spec for test programs to output data in a simple, human readable format that is not XML	19:01
+perlDreamer	so that it can be post processed	19:01
+perlDreamer	there are TAP implementations for many languages	19:01
+perlmonkey2	hm, closed for me with firebug on	19:01
Mech422	oh, so its an output format, not a test harness	19:02
+perlDreamer	right, the harness causes it to be generated, and then analyzes it	19:02
+perlDreamer	and allows it to be post processed into reports like this	19:02
Mech422	gotcha	19:02
+perlDreamer	smolder is a TAP aggregator and report system	19:02
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: what js was failing?	19:02
+perlDreamer	let me see if I can get it fail again	19:03
+perlmonkey2	you sure it wasn't just trying to close and taking forever to do it?	19:03
+perlmonkey2	;P	19:03
+perlDreamer	that could be	19:03
+perlmonkey2	although with firebug off, it opens and closes instantly.	19:03
+perlDreamer	you're right, perlmonkey2, it's an "unresponsive script" closing error	19:04
+perlDreamer	Script: file:///data/WebGUI_HEAD/jquery-1.2.6.pack.js:11	19:05
+perlDreamer	whoa, just crashed FF	19:05
+perlmonkey2	maybe it has a memory leak? Try reloading the page and see if it is responsive at first?	19:05
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+perlDreamer	maybe it's real player, too	19:07
* perlDreamer is streaming a radio station		19:07
bpmedley	<tr><td class="tableHeader"><tmpl_var field.label></td>	19:29
bpmedley	<td class="tableData"><tmpl_var field.value></td></tr>	19:29
bpmedley	default_acknowledgement	19:29
+perlDreamer	for the dataform?	19:29
bpmedley	Yes.. were is that processed?	19:29
+perlDreamer	bpmedley: inside www_process	19:30
bpmedley	thx	19:30
+perlmonkey2	rizen: I want to replace the Survey_questionTypes answers field with a json struct containing several default values for the question types. So that users can customize just about every single part of a default multiple choice answer. Do I need to RFE this, or just do it. Current surveys will seamlessly upgrade to this and won't be affected one iota.	19:48
+perlmonkey2	Also add an export/import feature so that default sets can be exported from one instance and improted into another.	19:48
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@rizen	perlmonkey2: requests approved	20:03
Mech422	stDavid: fios! me wants fios!!	20:05
+perlmonkey2	rizen: gacias senor	20:05
+perlmonkey2	stDavid: you have fios? Tell us what its like to have fios? Is it like having your own unicorn? Do you wake up to the sounds of rainbows and song birds? When you enter a room, do trumpets announce your entry? Is it a little bit like heaven?	20:07
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@stDavid	perlmonkey2: It is so fast that it will burn your eyeballs (if you're not careful)	20:08
+perlmonkey2	stDavid: mind telling if it is a dumb pipe or do they monitor/block ports/protocols?	20:09
@stDavid	I've got the Business class package - right around 120/mo	20:09
+perlmonkey2	stDavid: ah, so probably a dumb pipe at stupid silly speeds?	20:09
Mech422	I have friends on 'Utopia' in Utah - its a municipal fiber system run by about 50 smaller towns - 50Mbps symmetric for $60/month	20:09
+perlmonkey2	hmm, I'm moving to Utah.	20:10
Mech422	me too :-P	20:10
Mech422	appears to be no blockage/filtering either, as my friends stream/game/torrent on it	20:10
@stDavid	perlmonkey2: It's dumb - Use my own Cisco gear at the end of a 10Mb raw pipe	20:10
@stDavid	...and yes, it's VERY fasssst	20:11
+perlmonkey2	stDavid: that makes me cry a little in happiness.	20:11
@stDavid	It replaced for me 2 T-1's, and I've never looked back	20:11
* stDavid is glad he could make at least one person cry today :}		20:12
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@preaction_	today's lesson: Perl treats "0" (a string with a single 0 character) as FALSE, while Javascript treats "0" as TRUE	20:31
+perlDreamer	preaction_: you mean the string 0?	20:32
@preaction_	yes	20:32
+perlDreamer	that would explain what perlmonkey2 saw a while ago in the Survey	20:33
@preaction_	you'd probably be better off with the empty string, or the number 0	20:33
@preaction_	both are Perl and JS false	20:33
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+cap10morgan	is anyone doing anything clever w/ svn:external, for example, to maintain their local modifications to webgui but still pull from the official repo?	20:44
+cap10morgan	or do you pretty much need to import it into git or SVK to do that?	20:45
@Haarg	i use git for that type of thing	20:45
+cap10morgan	Haarg: right, i think i talked to you about that before. i don't suppose you have a how-to / best practices doc up anywhere on that? :)	20:46
@Haarg	http://utsl.gen.nz/talks/git-svn/intro.html is one thing to look at	20:47
@Haarg	it's just a general guide to using git-svn	20:48
@Haarg	nothing specific to webgui i could point to	20:48
+cap10morgan	gotcha	20:48
+cap10morgan	maybe i'll write a wiki page on it if i git somewhere (sorry, couldn't resist, that's how we pronounce it in Oklahoma)	20:49
CIA-38	WebGUI: translation * r10256 /translations/Norwegian/ (181 files in 2 dirs): Update from translation server	21:12
+perlmonkey2	cap10morgan: where in Oklahoma?	21:38
Mech422	tavisto: ping?	21:43
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@tavisto	hi Mech422	21:46
Mech422	tavisto: hey - got a sec to talk about the gov stuff ?	21:47
@tavisto	sure, what's up	21:48
Mech422	I just wanted to give you an intro to the tech guy for that company	21:48
Mech422	of course, since your available he seems to be MIA - gimme a sec	21:49
Mech422	got him ..	21:50
Mech422	tavisto: could you join #mech422 please	21:50
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@tavisto	thanks for the introduction Mech422, it would be nice to work with someone who deals with 200 municipal govs	22:14
Mech422	Det3's good people - the boss is a bit flighty though	22:15
@tavisto	I'm working with CRCOG and they have like 24 or 29 in their group. They have just been approved to use WebGUI as well. So I do think city government is going to be a growing market for WebGUI	22:15
@tavisto	we have 2-3 migrations in progress and the biggest one is for Worcester, MA	22:15
Mech422	oh nice :-) Worcester is a good sized place	22:18
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Mech422	ok - donna's got another webinar to teach, so I'm going home :-)	22:43
Mech422	see ya all tommorrow	22:43
bpmedley	Given a Date form variable where can I find where it is processed?	22:52
bpmedley	/data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Session/Form.pm I've got it down to line 169	22:53
@Haarg	WebGUI::Session::Form::process -> WebGUI::FormValidator::process -> WebGUI::FormValidator::AUTOLOAD -> WebGUI::Form::::new -> WebGUI::Form::::getValue	22:55
bpmedley	thx	23:00
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+cap10morgan	if you have, for example, WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/DataForm.pm in a custom lib directory (loaded through preload.custom), would that override the DataForm asset included in WebGUI?	23:29
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dionak	yes	23:51
dionak	we've found that to be true	23:52
@preaction_	yes, that is intended behavior	23:52
--- Day changed Fri Apr 10 2009
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@preaction_	perlDreamer, Haarg: would this be a good addition to the utility skeleton? http://webgui.pastebin.com/m78b1507b	00:22
@preaction_	it allows one to do this: for FILE in /data/WebGUI/etc/*com.conf; do perl installNewBreakingNews.pl --configFile=$FILE; done	00:23
@preaction_	or, alternatively, should there be some other way to simply run a utility script against all sites on the server?	00:23
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+perlDreamer	preaction_: there's a bash-ism for stripping out the file from the path?	00:24
@preaction_	there is?	00:24
@preaction_	i don't think there is, hence the diff i pasted	00:24
+perlDreamer	basename	00:24
@preaction_	it detects if the webguiroot is already on the path and then ... i hate you	00:24
@preaction_	but that would be easier than this bs ;)	00:25
+perlDreamer	don't hate me because I'm knowledgeable	00:25
@preaction_	no, i hate you for making me look like a fool	00:25
+perlDreamer	well, in that case, let's talk about javascript	00:26
+perlDreamer	so the shoe will be on the other foot	00:26
@preaction_	but i hate making other people look like fools too!	00:26
@preaction_	i'm sorry, you can't win here	00:27
+perlDreamer	no winning?	00:29
knowmad	+1 to perlDreamer	00:35
knowmad	;)	00:35
@Haarg	preaction_, i think there would be a better way to do what you are attempting for those scripts, but i think it is a good idea	00:35
@Haarg	also, i want to adjust them so they can be run from anywhere instead of just sbin	00:35
@preaction_	there is a better way, `basename $FILE`	00:36
@Haarg	well, better than that i mean	00:36
@preaction_	FindBin ould work there	00:36
@Haarg	what you are really trying to do is get the path relative to the etc directory	00:36
@Haarg	so i would use File::Spec->abs2rel	00:37
+perlDreamer	s{my @groupNames = split /\n/, $groups}{var groupNames = groups.split("\n");} ##Perl to javascript?	00:41
@Haarg	of course, wgd already has a command for running util scripts, taking care of those details ;)	00:46
+perlDreamer	see? I told you people would like that	00:46
+perlDreamer	have you had a chance to review Command/Id.pm ?	00:47
@Haarg	yeah	00:47
@Haarg	a few thoughts	00:47
+perlDreamer	I was hoping you might	00:47
+perlDreamer	it wasn't well thought out	00:47
@Haarg	first is i'm wondering if it would make sense to combine it with the guid command	00:47
@Haarg	they have different purposes, but it are similar enough that it may make more sense to combine them	00:48
@Haarg	also, it would probably make sense to be able to return the full uploads path for a storage id, since that is the main purpose of converting to hex	00:48
+perlDreamer	definitely	00:49
@tavisto	dude I hear the ice cream man... it's like 45 in Michigan.. what the heck	00:49
@tavisto	perlDreamer, stop driving around my neighborhood in your creepy ice cream van	00:50
+perlDreamer	tavisto, would you like some ice cream?	00:50
@tavisto	no, but you've got all these flavors I've never heard of. Joomla? Drupal? Plone? What the crap is this stuff	00:50
@Haarg	patspam was thinking that guid could be part of a command to generate other useful things, but i'm not sure what other things like that could be done	00:51
+perlDreamer	we can ask him when he wakes up	00:51
@Haarg	i don't think he had come up with anything either, just that it would make sense to combine it with something like that	00:52
+perlDreamer	I'll look into merging Id with Guid	00:52
+perlDreamer	that will probably mean making Guid generation a switch	00:52
@Haarg	that's the other thing	00:52
@Haarg	it does make sense to merge them	00:52
@Haarg	but it could make the interface a bit odd	00:53
+perlDreamer	wgd guid --make	00:53
+perlDreamer	wgd guid --make=N	00:53
+perlDreamer	wgd guid --toHex guid	00:53
+perlDreamer	wgd guid --path guid	00:53
+perlDreamer	wgd guid --valid guid	00:53
+perlDreamer	if there were no other switches, we could infer --make	00:54
@Haarg	and if a guid was given, assume --valid	00:57
+perlDreamer	I can do that	00:58
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+perlDreamer	in javascript, does: for group in (groups) iterate over the elements of the array, groups?	01:07
@Haarg	usually	01:13
@Haarg	but it's probably not a good idea	01:13
+perlDreamer	it's better to index manually?	01:13
@Haarg	yeah, because you can attach properties and methods to arrays	01:15
@Haarg	and it would iterate over those as well	01:15
+perlDreamer	makes sense, but in this case the array is well controlled since it's the output of split	01:15
@Haarg	yeah, but as a general rule i think it's something to avoid	01:16
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+perlDreamer	interesting, if the data for datatable is empty, it will not call the formatter routine on that cell	01:21
+perlDreamer	of course, it helps if you actually call the correct formatter...	01:31
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+perlDreamer	word to the wise	03:01
+perlDreamer	GUIDs are not safe javascript variable names	03:01
+perlDreamer	aside from database space, is there anything wrong with making GUIDs in hexadecimal format?	03:03
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+patspam	all hail the noob who commits his own site conf to svn!	03:38
+patspam	perlDreamer: thanks for spotting that =p	03:38
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+patspam	luckily it was just a dev conf file, so no sensitive passwords exposed	03:42
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+patspam	$rizen->approveRFE() has a bug, it keeps on returning "ACK" instead of "APPROVED FOR IMMEDIATE COMMIT"	03:48
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+perlDreamer	patspam, phew	03:55
* perlDreamer was away at dinner		03:55
+perlDreamer	Haarg, are you running tests, by chance?	03:57
@Haarg	yeah, i have a few fixes	03:57
+patspam	impressive: http://www.balsamiq.com/products/mockups	03:58
@Haarg	committed	03:58
+patspam	can we get a wobject that does that in 7.8?	03:58
@Haarg	7.8?	03:59
+patspam	oh ok, 7.7 will be fine	03:59
+perlDreamer	7.8 == 8.0	03:59
@Haarg	i doubt anyone would object if you wanted to build it	04:00
+perlDreamer	patspam, some testing eye candy for you: http://perldreamer.com/uploads/ca/54/ca54e8e117d433b072c755170bbe4ca3/output.html	04:00
+perlDreamer	JS enabled HTML test reports	04:00
+patspam	nice!	04:01
+patspam	perl tools are finally going web 2.0	04:01
+patspam	whatever that means..	04:01
+perlDreamer	they're purdy	04:02
+perlDreamer	cliky-cliky	04:02
CIA-38	WebGUI: patspam * r10257 /WebGUI/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt: Added changes to changelog for 7.7.3	04:25
CIA-38	WebGUI: graham * r10258 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/ (SyndicatedContent.pm Collaboration.pm): move back compat method to correct class	04:25
CIA-38	WebGUI: graham * r10259 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Wobject/Survey/ExpressionEngine.t: prevent test from leaking users and surveys	04:25
CIA-38	WebGUI: graham * r10260 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): adjusting tests for new behavior	04:25
+patspam	Haarg: thanks for fixing my broken tests	04:27
+patspam	btw, I vote that you add WGDev::Asset::find to WebGUI::Asset	04:29
+perlDreamer	what does find do?	04:30
+perlDreamer	fuzzy matching on URLs?	04:30
+perlDreamer	oh	04:30
+perlDreamer	I see	04:30
+perlDreamer	mine brain is shot from javascript	04:30
@Haarg	it could be useful for macros to use	04:30
+patspam	i can think of at least 1 macro where I've re-implemented that	04:31
+perlDreamer	AssetProxy would use it	04:31
+patspam	yeah, and most of them that allow a template param	04:32
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@Haarg	i'll have to talk to rizen about it	04:42
@Haarg	not sure if he'll want to add an ambiguous behavior like that	04:42
* patspam heads off for lunch		05:02
+perlDreamer	Haarg, how's the release coming? Would it be okay to make some POD coverage commits, or is it better to wait?	05:07
@Haarg	go ahead	05:08
+perlDreamer	committed	05:08
+perlDreamer	10261	05:08
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10261 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (6 files in 3 dirs): POD Coverage for Event, SQLReport, Survey, Navigation, Article, and Form/HTMLArea	05:20
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+perlDreamer	bbl, might get skype working on the laptop tonight :)	06:13
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+perlDreamer	w00t! Skype is working	06:35
+perlDreamer	now, if fedora will fix the keyboard/mouse detection bugs in its fast startup service	06:37
+perlDreamer	and I can figure out what happened to DVD playback	06:37
+perlDreamer	this laptop will rock	06:37
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* patspam discovers the '--config' option for wgd reset		07:40
@preaction_	not the bad way, i hope	07:41
@preaction_	er.. the hard way	07:41
+patspam	in the "i wish haarg would add the ability to.. oh wait maybe i should read to docs first and see if it's already there.." way	07:58
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bpmedley	anyone here?	13:42
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CIA-38	WebGUI: graham * r10262 /WebGUI/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.7.3 release	15:25
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CIA-38	WebGUI: graham * r10263 /releases/WebGUI_7.7.3-beta: Release 7.7.3-beta	15:55
CIA-38	WebGUI: graham * r10264 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): preparing for 7.7.4 dev	15:55
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+perlmonkey2	Death to lazy load	18:02
SDuensin	I thought it was to Smoochy?	18:03
@Haarg	in what context perlmonkey2?	18:04
@Haarg	also, rizen approved upgrading yui to 2.7, but that will only happen if i find the time to do all the needed changes/testing	18:05
+perlmonkey2	Haarg: SurveyJSON was failing on initialization, but the error was coming from a random call to fill out a template. Took me a while to track it back to the object being initialized in that call.	18:05
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+perlmonkey2	Haarg: well that is pretty sweet man, but don't worry about my retarded projects. 2.7 will probably help with some issues I was having with customizing the mouse-over popups on the charts, but the defaults are workable. Other than that, 2.6 is good enough for now.	18:06
@Haarg	it would probably be best to upgrade it, so i'm going to try to get it done, but it's not a high priority by any means	18:07
+perlmonkey2	Haarg: just let me know what I can do to help. need me to look through the list of widgets that have changed names or anything?	18:08
+perlmonkey2	I know charts has gone from -experimental to -beta.	18:08
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@Haarg	the primary things are to check anything that has changed to from beta to stable	18:09
@Haarg	element for example	18:09
+perlmonkey2	hmm, actually it is now just charts with no modifier	18:09
@Haarg	we won't make a ton of use of element directly though, usually only as a prereq for other things	18:09
@Haarg	so it likely will work in most places just by changing the path	18:09
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@Haarg	perlDreamer, when running the tests, i've been seeing warnings about not being able to call disconnect on a dbh that has already had take_imp_data called on it during global destruction or something along those lines	18:34
* perlDreamer has seen that too, although only when running coverage		18:34
@Haarg	hmm	18:34
@Haarg	i've tried adding trace code, but haven't gotten the warnings to show up after doing that	18:35
@Haarg	at least i'm not the only person seeing it	18:36
+perlDreamer	Google isn't showing anything useful	18:41
+perlDreamer	and I don't know what we may have changed to make that start happening	18:41
+perlDreamer	let's try this line of reasoning	18:42
+perlDreamer	Session->close calls db->disconnect as the very first thing that it does	18:42
+perlDreamer	then it iterates over all internally cached keys (objects) and calls delete on each one	18:43
+perlDreamer	the first one it calls is _asset	18:43
+perlDreamer	when you destroy the asset, won't it call session->close on its copy of the session?	18:43
+perlDreamer	if that's true, then moving up the deletion of _db to the front may help	18:46
+perlDreamer	it doesn't	18:57
+perlDreamer	Haarg, you get this when you run any test, or all tests?	18:57
@Haarg	once or twice during a full run through the tests	18:58
+perlDreamer	do you remember from which tests?	18:58
+perlDreamer	it seems to happen when you try to call disconnect on a dbh handle twice	18:59
@Haarg	i think the sql macro did it a few times	18:59
@Haarg	but not always	18:59
@Haarg	it would probably be good to have DESTROY work different on WebGUI::SQL, but i'd just like to know what caused this to start before i change a bunch of stuff	19:00
+perlDreamer	it might not have been anything that we've done	19:01
+perlDreamer	since, on my machine, using Devel::Cover causes it to happen every time	19:01
+perlDreamer	and without it, it doesn't happen	19:01
+perlDreamer	(running User.t)	19:01
@Haarg	hmm	19:06
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+perlDreamer	either that, or it's been happening all along, and recent changes to DBI have made it show up	19:06
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+perlDreamer	the POD on DBI talks about take_imp_data	19:07
@Haarg	http://gist.github.com/93139	19:09
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@Haarg	might try making that change	19:09
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+perlDreamer	I'll try that on my end	19:12
+perlDreamer	okay, another data point, it doesn't show up in 7.7.0	19:14
+perlDreamer	(User.t, with Devel::Cover)	19:15
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+perlDreamer	between then and now, I added the Config and Setting restore code to WebGUI::Test	19:16
@Haarg	hm	19:17
@Haarg	that could be relevant	19:17
@Haarg	settings specifically	19:17
+perlDreamer	yes, and here's why	19:17
+perlDreamer	I cloned the whole settings object	19:17
+perlDreamer	including the session	19:17
+perlDreamer	when we close the original, there's still a reference to it in $originalSetting	19:17
+perlDreamer	which goes out of scope as the script ends	19:18
+perlDreamer	and then calls DESTROY, which tries to close the session, and then the dbh	19:18
+perlmonkey2	How would you transition from an ajax call to providing the user with a file download?	19:19
+perlDreamer	Haarg, that means that your patch should help, since it won't close it twice	19:22
+perlDreamer	or, maybe I should just clone the data part of the settings...	19:23
@Haarg	i think both would probably be good	19:23
+perlDreamer	when we do WebGUI 8, are we going to start using C::IO or Crud everywhere?	19:23
@Haarg	not certain	19:25
@Haarg	probably in more places	19:25
@Haarg	i'm probably going to add some methods to Config::JSON for interacting with arrays and bump WebGUI's version req so we can use them	19:26
+perlDreamer	like using List::MoreUtils insert_after?	19:26
+perlDreamer	a contains method would be nice, too	19:27
@Haarg	exactly	19:27
CIA-38	WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r10265 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Default Survey Question settings now save 100% of the answer configuration data. This will not affect previous Surveys, but allow new defaults to be more complex if desired.	19:27
+perlDreamer	$config->insert_after('key1', 'newKey') unless $config->contains('newKey')	19:27
@Haarg	adding things to ContentHandlers gets messed up far too often in upgrades	19:27
+perlDreamer	that would be beautiful	19:27
@Haarg	probably insert_before as well	19:28
@Haarg	well, insertBefore	19:28
+perlDreamer	yeah, "common" perl naming convention vs camelCase	19:28
+perlDreamer	you saw that Alias dinged Config::JSON because of that?	19:28
@Haarg	yes	19:29
@Haarg	not that i disagree	19:29
@Haarg	bumping the version req means i can do the config reset for tests easier	19:29
+perlDreamer	awesome	19:29
+perlDreamer	let me test the data clone, then commit	19:30
+perlDreamer	committed	19:34
* perlDreamer is glad he made Setting->get		19:34
+perlDreamer	return everything	19:34
+perlDreamer	I'm sorry if that caused you any headaches with the release, Haarg	19:34
@Haarg	not really	19:34
@Haarg	thanks for fixing it though	19:35
@Haarg	did you apply the disconnect patch as well?	19:35
+perlDreamer	No, I'll add it, too	19:35
+perlDreamer	committed	19:38
+perlDreamer	and the technical debt of WebGUI is held in balance	19:42
+perlDreamer	hm, there must be more problems with RSS, since the news on wG.org is still broken	19:48
@Haarg	heh	19:49
@Haarg	which page?	19:49
+perlDreamer	wg.org/participate	19:49
@Haarg	i just didn't notice that one to fix it	19:50
+perlDreamer	but if you put in a backwards compatible sub into the CS, it shouldn't need to be fixed...?	19:54
@Haarg	no, the feeds linked to the RSSFromParent assets, which had their own distinct urls	19:55
+perlDreamer	so we're still going to see RSS breakage then	19:55
+perlDreamer	people could put a redirect into their apache config	19:56
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10266 /WebGUI/t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm:	19:56
CIA-38	WebGUI: Only clone the data from Setting. This prevents trying to close the	19:56
CIA-38	WebGUI: session dbh twice and getting odd warning messages.	19:56
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10267 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm: Prevent closing dbh handles twice.	19:56
+perlDreamer	Haarg, do we need a gotcha about that, about RSS urls not working any longer?	20:17
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@Haarg	yeah, we do. i intended to add that but forgot to when making the other tweaks to the rss stuff.	20:29
CIA-38	WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r10268 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey.pm: Added default question type export function.	21:01
CIA-38	WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r10269 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Survey [[question variable]] now returns the shown answer text for multiple choice questions, and the recorded value for non-multiple choice questions.	21:01
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2: how do I do the same thing as session->log->warn(Dumper $obj) in javascript?	21:02
@preaction_	perlDreamer: if you have Firebug, console.log( obj.toSource() )	21:03
@Haarg	console.log in you have firebug	21:03
+perlDreamer	do I need to define an obj.toSource, or is it provided for me?	21:03
@preaction_	toSource() is a built-in	21:03
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: bewares the Ides of March (and using console.log).	21:03
@preaction_	there's also YUI logger and YUI JSON which you could combine into a nice WebGUI.log package	21:04
+perlmonkey2	anything not using firebug will throw an impossible to determine exceptoin.	21:04
@Haarg	do you actually need the toSource when using console.log ?	21:04
+perlDreamer	preaction_: do you _really_ want me writing javascript libraries?	21:04
@preaction_	why not?	21:05
+perlmonkey2	Haarg: when I need some introspection I just use the debugger.	21:05
@preaction_	Haarg: dunno	21:05
+perlDreamer	patspam wrote a blog posting about YUI logging	21:05
+perlDreamer	it was in the latest WNN	21:06
@Haarg	if you are certain you will be removing it using console.log is probably easier	21:06
+perlDreamer	can I put console.log "anywhere" I want to?	21:11
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@Haarg	i think so	21:16
CIA-38	WebGUI: jt * r10270 /wrebuild/ (5 files in 4 dirs):	21:28
CIA-38	WebGUI: updated change log to reflect all new versions of modules and bug fixes	21:28
CIA-38	WebGUI: added upgrade to 0.9.2	21:28
CIA-38	WebGUI: removed legacy berkley db	21:28
CIA-38	WebGUI: added lcms color profiling for image magick	21:28
CIA-38	WebGUI: updated image magick to fix a few outstanding image generation issues	21:28
CIA-38	WebGUI: jt * r10271 /wrebuild/build.sh: forgot to update version number for image magick in the build script	21:28
CIA-38	WebGUI: jt * r10272 /wrebuild/ (getperlmodules.sh build.sh getsource.sh): making these executable in svn	21:29
+perlDreamer	while the debugger is running, I can look at variables.	21:35
+perlDreamer	is there a way to do that after the scripts have stopped running?	21:35
@preaction_	perlDreamer: yes, in the console you can type a var name and it will show up	21:37
+perlDreamer	that's helpful. thanks!	21:38
dionak	does anyone know where the new request tracker asset is available?	22:01
+perlDreamer	github?	22:01
@Haarg	nope	22:01
@Haarg	https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/browse/experimental/HelpDesk/ https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/experimental/HelpDesk/	22:02
dionak	ah, thanks Haarg	22:02
* perlDreamer goes running		22:04
dionak	so disciplined	22:04
dionak	does anyone here know about the HelpDesk asset?	22:13
dionak	i realize it's not ready for prime time yet	22:13
dionak	but i'd like to take it for a test run	22:13
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CIA-38	WebGUI: jt * r10273 /wrebuild/ (build.sh getsource.sh wre/docs/changelog.txt): added tiff support to image magick	22:53
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wgGuest32	How can I make the "add file" option in a file folder available to non admin users?	22:54
@preaction_	you have to add a permissions override to the config file, and then make a link for the add file that will show up in the template	23:02
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SDuensin	Anyone know where 1and1 is located? I can't kick their ass if I can't find them.	23:06
@preaction_	dunno, but i use them for all my stuff and i don't have problems. what's the dealio?	23:07
@preaction_	well, all my stuff means "domain registration and DNS"	23:07
SDuensin	Good god. Ok, here's what happened...	23:08
SDuensin	I have a dummy domain I test with before I break actual customer domains...	23:09
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SDuensin	I changed the primary and secondary name servers for it to something new I wanted to play with. Didn't do exactly what I wanted, so I set up my own copy of bind9 and pointed it at that...	23:09
SDuensin	Next thing I get is that the Domain Registration is in Error. I can no longer edit it...	23:10
@preaction_	wow	23:10
SDuensin	Oh, we're just getting started.	23:10
SDuensin	So I call tech support. The chain looks like this so far:	23:10
SDuensin	Tech->Dedicated->Transfers->Tech->EMail->Tech->Dedicated->Transfers	23:11
SDuensin	The lady in Transfers is the only one worth a shit. She tracked down the actual responsible people and got it fixed. Maybe.	23:11
SDuensin	Now some dude says if I want to change my name servers that I need to register the domain with Verisign. What?!	23:11
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SDuensin	Did I mention the transfer department asked me to email them my control panel password? Sheesh.	23:13
@tavisto	SDuesin, 1&1 has multiple data centers, their headquarters is in Chesterbook, PA	23:14
@tavisto	er SDuensin	23:14
@tavisto	:)	23:14
@tavisto	they have like 7.5 million customers so yeah, going thru support is like going through the american gladiators guantlet	23:14
SDuensin	Well, wherever Carol is, she needs a raise.	23:14
* SDuensin told her that, too.		23:14
@tavisto	I had a virtual server with them for about a month. And then I said the hell with this :)	23:15
SDuensin	I have two dedicated boxes and a ton of domains. Never had a problem before.	23:16
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CIA-38	WebGUI: yung * r10274 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (4 files in 4 dirs): fixed #10142: Matrix 2.0 - Search screen compare button not functional	23:24
CIA-38	WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r10275 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/ (Survey/SurveyJSON.pm Survey.pm): Survey drag-and-drop now returns the edit box for the item just drug.	23:24
CIA-38	WebGUI: yung * r10276 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): fixed #10142: Matrix 2.0 - Search screen compare button not functional	23:24
CIA-38	WebGUI: yung * r10277 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Matrix.pm: fixed the matrix categories property	23:24
wgGuest87	How can I make a users not have to be admins and be able to add files to folders?	23:24
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wgGuest87	anybody?	23:26
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@preaction	wgGuest87: two things: you have to add a permissions override in the config file. you have to add a link in the template.	23:26
@preaction	i told you before you left last time	23:26
wgGuest87	Sorry about that, I was having computer issues	23:26
wgGuest87	Can you please resend your response?	23:27
@preaction	that was my response, right there	23:27
wgGuest87	Ok, thank you.	23:28
wgGuest87	So my next question is how do I provide a permissions overide? I would assume it goes into the html code for the template.	23:28
wgGuest87	May I have an example code please?	23:29
@preaction	no, the permissions override goes in the configuration file. check the configuration file for details	23:29
@preaction	i should mention that you can purchase a support-only service from Plain Black that will be far more reliable than any Joe Random IRC User	23:30
wgGuest87	Ok...	23:30
wgGuest87	Where is this config file located?	23:30
@preaction	the Administrator's Guide book, offered by Plain Black, also goes through all this stuff	23:31
@preaction	/data/WebGUI/etc	23:31
wgGuest87	Ok.	23:31
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wgGuest87	I can't seem to find the information needed... Is it possible you could direct me to the config file location? Is this something that has to be done on the server level?	23:38
@preaction	if "on the server level" you mean on a command-line, yes.	23:40
CIA-38	WebGUI: jt * r10278 /wrebuild/ (build.sh getsource.sh): added image magick color profile	23:53
--- Day changed Sat Apr 11 2009
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Chizad	Is there a comprehensive list somewhere of things to check to help track down scheduler tasks not running/webgui.log getting spammed with "response for job $site.conf-taskId had a communications error" messages?	00:08
Chizad	I've been trying to track this down for a few days now on a new install and AFAICT everything looks okay, but I know I've gotta be missing something.	00:09
Chizad	Environment is a base Ubuntu server 8.10 install with WRE 0.9.1 (also had the same issue with WRE 0.8.5).	00:10
+perlDreamer	you'd have to be more specific Chizad	00:11
+perlDreamer	which one isn't running	00:11
Chizad	None of them, AFAICT.	00:11
Chizad	And gimme a sec, I'm working on all the things I've tried/what I've found via troubleshooting. :)	00:12
+perlDreamer	have you read through the wiki and forums?	00:12
@preaction	cd /data/WebGUI/sbin; perl spectre.pl --test	00:12
Chizad	I've gone through the troubleshooting steps in the admin guide; the spectre test checks out fine, debug shows it trying to run the workflows/tasks, and whenver it hits a task it spits out the "response for job had a communications error" message along with a HTTP 500 error being returned from the server.	00:14
Chizad	spectreSubnets in the site config is set to 127.0.0.1/32 and the server's actual IP (also as a /32)	00:15
@preaction	Chizad: LWP does 500 errors for DNS lookups. is the domain name in the /etc/hosts file?	00:16
@preaction	LWP does 500 errors for a bunch of things that don't have http status codes	00:17
Chizad	Yes, in /etc/hosts I've got the short/long hostnames (i.e 'hostname' and 'hostname.domain.tld' aliased to the machine's IP)	00:19
@preaction	but not 127.0.0.1?	00:20
Chizad	As well as the default 127.0.0.1 localhost bit	00:20
Chizad	No, 127.0.0.1 is just aliased to localhost.	00:20
@preaction	i'm suspecting it's some sort of DNS+connection problem. can you do a "wget http://sitename/?op=spectreGetSiteData"	00:20
@preaction	and have a JSON hash returned?	00:21
Chizad	Yes.	00:21
Chizad	And running the workflows manually with curl/wget returns complete, but running a task manually with curl returns 'error'	00:21
@preaction	check the webgui error log then	00:22
@preaction	'error' responses show up there	00:22
+perlDreamer	default error log level set wrong?	00:22
Chizad	webgui.log is filled with blocks of the following for each of the default workflows/tasks: http://webgui.pastebin.com/d4ac64339	00:25
+perlDreamer	Chizad, are all the workflowId errors in that log starting with "pbcron"	00:27
+perlDreamer	also, while we're here, what version of WebGUI, do you use the WRE, if so, which version?	00:27
+perlDreamer	what does the output of sbin/testEnvironment.pl --simpleReport say?	00:27
Chizad	All the crontab errors in the log start with pbcron, all the workflow errors do not	00:28
Chizad	Currently on WebGUI 7.6.19, although the problem also existed in 7.16.17, 7.16.16, and 7.6.15 (initial install version).	00:29
Chizad	And I am using the WRE, current version is 0.9.1, but first noticed the problem when I was running 0.8.5	00:29
+perlDreamer	everything else about WebGUI works fine? Logging in, turning on admin, uploading and downloading files?	00:33
Chizad	testenvironment output: http://webgui.pastebin.com/d5e36d6df	00:33
Chizad	yep	00:33
Chizad	logging in, admin mode, adding/editing objects, committing version tags, importing packages, all works fine.	00:33
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+perlDreamer	committing version tags? Do you use autocommit?	00:34
+perlDreamer	Which OS?	00:35
Chizad	Ubuntu 8.10 server	00:35
+perlDreamer	SELinux?	00:35
Chizad	and by autocommit do you mean "commit without approval" for version tag workflow? (sorry if that's a dumb question, I'm a webgui newb)	00:35
Chizad	hmmm, I think 8.10 might have SELinux at least partially enabled by default	00:36
SDuensin	Hey perlDreamer, where is the MAX_BODY setting hidden?	00:36
+perlDreamer	why not check your logs to see if you're getting SELinux warnings, too.	00:36
+perlDreamer	SDuensin, what is MAX_BODY?	00:36
SDuensin	(20014)Internal error: Content-Length header (115204477) exceeds configured max_body limit (67108864), referer: http://vgs.jaegertech.net/2009?func=add;class=WebGUI::Asset::FilePile	00:37
SDuensin	Something to do with modperl, apparently.	00:37
+perlDreamer	that's not a WebGUI setting	00:37
+perlDreamer	sounds like apache	00:37
SDuensin	Bad user! It's in the wiki. :-)	00:38
+perlDreamer	SDuensin, that's either 50 karma or 500 pushups, whichever you prefer	00:41
Chizad	Okay, AFAICT ubuntu (server anyway) has selinux disabled (only mentions I'm finding are in kern.log/dmesg saying it's disabled at boot), but it does have AppArmor installed, which is a selinux-alike.	00:41
+perlDreamer	if you choose the karma route, please give it to BartJol	00:41
SDuensin	He can give it back - that wiki entry is confusing. Is it APREQ2_ReadLimit or APREQ_ReadLimit? Make up your mind! :-P	00:42
Chizad	However, apparmor does not have any profiles set up.	00:42
Chizad	Hmmm, I know I've checked this before, but I just noticed something.	00:47
Chizad	Some of the threads I found in the forums mentioned checking spectreIp/spectrePort/spectreSubnets in the site's .conf as well as the ip/port/webguiPort settings in spectre.conf	00:47
Chizad	spectreIp is set to just 127.0.0.1 and not that and the actual IP of the server. Is that correct?	00:48
+perlDreamer	that should work fine	00:52
Chizad	okay	00:53
Chizad	for completeness sake, here's the rest of those settings: spectre's port is set to 32133 in both the site .conf and spectre.conf, spectre's set to run on 127.0.0.1, and the webguiPort is 8081	00:57
+perlDreamer	Chizad, those settings look all right	01:02
+perlDreamer	although I can't speak about the webguiPort setting, since I don't use the WRE	01:02
* perlDreamer strongly suspects apparmor		01:03
Chizad	site was created via the wreconsole following the instructions in the wiki, and until noticed the errors in webgui.log and started trying to troubleshoot this I hadn't so much as looked at any of the conf files, let alone modified them.	01:03
+perlDreamer	that's why I'm suspecting something in the native OS	01:04
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Chizad	okay, lemme disable apparmor real quick	01:07
Chizad	Completely removed apparmor, rebooted the server, still gettting the same communication error message.	01:14
Chizad	Ya think maybe it just doesn't like me? ;)	01:21
+perlDreamer	thou art cursed	01:21
+perlDreamer	perl spectre.pl --test works okay?	01:21
+perlDreamer	wget http://www.mysite.com?op=spectreSetSiteData works okay?	01:22
+perlDreamer	what user are you doing that as?	01:22
+perlDreamer	root?	01:22
Chizad	'perl spectre.pl --test' returns "Running connectivity tests.\n Testing ThePortal.conf\n Tests completed"	01:23
Chizad	And wgetting the op=spectreSetSiteData returns the HTML for the home page, which I assume is what it's supposed to do.	01:25
+perlDreamer	no	01:25
+perlDreamer	that isn't what it is supposed to do	01:25
+perlDreamer	it's supposed to return you a piece of javascript	01:25
Chizad	huh	01:26
Chizad	and yes, I've been running all of my debug commands and everything as root	01:27
+perlDreamer	like this: http://gist.github.com/93338	01:27
+perlDreamer	and I mistyped the wget command	01:27
+perlDreamer	it should be wget http://www.mysite.com?op=spectreGetSiteData	01:28
Chizad	ahhh, okay	01:28
Chizad	yes, that returns the JSON object wiht the workflow instances and scheduler tasks	01:29
+perlDreamer	on your machine right now, is spectre running as root, or some other user?	01:29
Chizad	right now it's running as root because I started it manually in debug mode	01:30
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Chizad	But normally (when I let it start on boot with the initscripts) it's running as root as well.	01:31
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CIA-38	WebGUI: translation * r10279 /translations/German/German/ (Asset_Carousel.pm Asset_Thingy.pm): Update from translation server	01:52
CIA-38	WebGUI: translation * r10280 /translations/German/German/Workflow_Activity_RemoveOldCarts.pm: Update from translation server	01:52
CIA-38	WebGUI: translation * r10281 /translations/German/German/Asset_FlatDiscount.pm: Update from translation server	01:52
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10282 /branch/WebGUI_Story/lib/WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs):	01:52
CIA-38	WebGUI: Add missing template variables to the Story Archive.	01:52
CIA-38	WebGUI: Add RSS and atom template variables.	01:52
+perlDreamer	tavisto, when I go to the link you posted in bug, I get a pop-up	02:16
+perlDreamer	alert box	02:16
+perlDreamer	do you?	02:16
@tavisto	which link	02:17
+perlDreamer	http://www.cmsmatrix.org/matrix/cms-matrix/webgui?func=viewScreenshot	02:17
+perlDreamer	I get a little pop-up that says func=getAttributes	02:17
@tavisto	yeah it's debug code	02:18
@tavisto	I already posted it as bug	02:18
@tavisto	and Yung fixed it. It was extra debug code	02:18
+perlDreamer	it's still there	02:19
+perlDreamer	oh, but not activated yet	02:19
+perlDreamer	?	02:19
@tavisto	well the new version it will be fixed	02:31
@tavisto	perlDreamer, I thought he closed the bug report re: the debug code	02:32
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CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10283 /branch/WebGUI_Story/lib/WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Adding RSS and Atom template variables to the Story Topic.	02:41
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wgGuest91	I'm having some trouble with User Lists. I've set profile to public for each user and also in the template I've selected override public. It still shows as "Field Not Public" in the list. If I log in as the user, their listing is normal. Any ideas?	05:14
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+perlDreamer	wgGuest91, is there a difference between Field Not Public, and Profile Not public?	07:19
+perlDreamer	each field has its own privacy setting	07:19
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wgGuest91	Where is the privacy setting for each field set?	09:27
wgGuest91	Is it global or per profile?	09:27
@preaction	wgGuest91: you can set them in the User Profile tab of the admin console	09:46
@preaction	but it is also per profile as well	09:46
+Radix_	you can set the defaults for new users by altering the visitor profile	09:48
+Radix_	but it will not affect users accounts who have already been created	09:49
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CIA-38	WebGUI: daviddelikat * r10284 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs):	18:33
CIA-38	WebGUI: fixed dragDrop to use a handle rather than the whole	18:33
CIA-38	WebGUI: object for dragdrop start events.	18:33
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CIA-38	WebGUI: yung * r10285 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Matrix.pm): fixed #10141: Matrix 2.0 - Search does not check matching products	20:29
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Khaytsus	I'm in the process of upgrading from 7.4.19 to the latest. I updated along the path suggested by the gotcha text, I updated to 7.4.40 first, worked. 7.5.24 fine, now 7.6.19, but when I run testEnvironment now it says WebGUI modules: Not Found. Perhaps you're running this script from the wrong place.	20:48
Khaytsus	And not sure how to progress from here. :/	20:49
CIA-38	WebGUI: yung * r10286 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Matrix.pm): fixed #10141: Matrix 2.0 - Search does not check matching products	21:01
CIA-38	WebGUI: yung * r10287 /WebGUI/www/extras/wobject/Matrix/matrixSearch.js: fixing a javascript error in matrix search screen	21:01
CIA-38	WebGUI: yung * r10288 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/www/extras/wobject/Matrix/matrixSearch.js: fixed a javascript error on matrix search screen	21:01
@Haarg	Khaytsus, did it find the rest of the modules properly?	21:13
Khaytsus	Yeah, no errors to there.	21:31
Khaytsus	I'm trying an earlier package, to see if it helps	21:31
Khaytsus	Having a alittle weirdness with upgrade and tables	21:32
@Haarg	in what way?	21:32
Khaytsus	Adding URL column to assetHistoryDBD::mysql::st execute failed: Duplicate column name 'url' at ../../lib/WebGUI/SQL/ResultSet.pm line 135.	21:33
@Haarg	sounds like a busted upgrade	21:33
@Haarg	what has your proceedure been so far?	21:34
Khaytsus	Following the gotcha document, upgrading whenever it says "you must have xyz"	21:34
Khaytsus	Maybe I'll start over.. heh	21:34
@Haarg	but what versions etc?	21:34
Khaytsus	7.4.19 -> 7.4.40 -> 7.5.24 -> 7.5.40 -> 7.6.19 (last one is failing)	21:35
Khaytsus	In upgrade it's actually failing 7.5.40-7.6.10	21:35
@Haarg	a warning - if you were to extract the 7.6.19 tarball, then extract the 7.5.40 tarball, it could lead to problems when you tried to run the 7.5.40 upgrade	21:37
Khaytsus	I might have actually done that to be honest, I didn't notice I needed 7.5.40 until after I started 7.6.19	21:38
Khaytsus	I'm gonna fall back to 7.4.19 and start over	21:38
@Haarg	that sounds like a good idea	21:39
@Haarg	just be sure to erase the WebGUI/docs/upgrades directory before extracting an older tarball and it will prevent those problems	21:39
Khaytsus	Ah, I'll do that.	21:43
Khaytsus	Okay, 7.4.19 is back up	21:43
Khaytsus	7.4.19 -> 7.4.40 -> 7.5.24 -> 7.5.40 -> 7.6.19 sounds okay to you?	21:43
@Haarg	yes	21:43
Khaytsus	kk	21:43
* Khaytsus rubs hands together		21:44
@Haarg	although you shouldn't need to stop at 7.5.24	21:44
Khaytsus	Thanks for your help, by the way!	21:44
Khaytsus	ah, okay I'll skip that one then	21:44
@Haarg	hopefully it works better this time	21:44
Khaytsus	So let me doublecheck something.. What I'm doing is this: Unsquish tar on top of existing, go into sbin, run testEnv to make sure my modules are up to snuff, then run upgrade	21:45
Khaytsus	Of course now, the modules should be good, but :)	21:45
@Haarg	yep, that's correct	21:45
Khaytsus	I'm sure whatever it was, it was user error. Upgrades have always gone well for me with WebGUI :)	21:50
Khaytsus	Hmm, I got up tp 7.5.40, but now the testEnvironment script from 7.6.19 is reporting WebGUI modules: Not Found. Perhaps you're running this script from the wrong place.	21:52
@Haarg	what happens if you run perl -mWebGUI -e1	21:53
@Haarg	?	21:53
@Haarg	well, you'd probably need to run perl -I/data/WebGUI/lib -mWebGUI -e1	21:54
Khaytsus	Yeah, that's what I was gonna sak ;-)	21:54
Khaytsus	Can't locate Clone.pm in @INC	21:54
@Haarg	hmm	21:55
@Haarg	well, that's less than ideal	21:55
@Haarg	you should be able to install that module fine	21:55
Khaytsus	That a WebGUI module?	21:55
@Haarg	but that would mean we missed a prereq in testEnv	21:55
Khaytsus	ooh, okay	21:55
Khaytsus	cpan I go	21:55
CIA-38	WebGUI: yung * r10289 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/packages-7.7.4/root_import_carousel_carousel-hidden-textareas.wgpkg: small change to Carousel hidden textarea template	21:55
Khaytsus	Hmmm, do you know offhand what might be it? Hash::Merge maybe?	21:56
@Haarg	it should just be Clone	21:56
Khaytsus	kiss :)	21:57
Khaytsus	yay, no error with the test	21:58
Khaytsus	upgrade running	21:58
Khaytsus	WebGUI Build Version:7.6.19-stable	21:59
Khaytsus	Yay!	21:59
Khaytsus	Hmmmm, odd, admin mode is drawn all over the place, instead of the menu on the lefthand side.	22:01
Khaytsus	Probably a template setting of mine or such..	22:05
@Haarg	most likely	22:08
@Haarg	not clear on what you mean by drawn all over the place though	22:08
Khaytsus	http://imagebin.org/45167	22:15
Khaytsus	Looks fine with admin off, so the site is okay, just a bit wacky with the admin right now	22:18
@Haarg	seems like it's not loading the css or the js properly	22:25
Khaytsus	duh, let me check logs then, didn't consider that	22:25
CIA-38	WebGUI: yung * r10290 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): added some tmpl_vars to thingy's search template	22:26
Khaytsus	File does not exist: /data/domains/webgui.theblackmoor.net/public/extras/yui/build/menu/assets/skins	22:27
Khaytsus	'spect that's part of it	22:27
Khaytsus	Yep, I never knew I needed to replace the /domains/site/public/extras, probably missed that somewhere	22:31
Khaytsus	One more odd thing is when I go to manage assets, it never shows 'em.. Where it would list them, it just shows "Loading..." forever.	22:37
Khaytsus	heh, now it loads. It was just waiting for me to ask one more dumb question.	22:39
@Haarg	usually extras is done as an alias directly to /data/WebGUI/www/extras	22:40
Khaytsus	:o	22:40
Khaytsus	I had copied	22:40
Khaytsus	I'll fix that so it won't happen again	22:40
Khaytsus	Alrighty, looks good now. I probably need to look into merging the old Style 02 I had modified for myself into the Style 03, but right now things look good. Thank you for all of your help!	22:45
@Haarg	no problem	22:46
Khaytsus	It's a shame what little I use of WebGUI, but better too much than too little I guess.	22:50
Khaytsus	ie: I scratch the surface of what it can do	22:50
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daviddelikat	elnino hows it going	23:14
elnino	I'm directionless. =) I have things I should be doing, but not, and things am I doing that aren't that important. =( Other than that. great!	23:14
daviddelikat	sounds like every day to me	23:15
elnino	And to top it all, IT's BEAUTIFUL outside. I should be outside getting vit D instead of surfing for who knows what.	23:17
daviddelikat	I don't hava window so that helps	23:18
daviddelikat	but the internet is enough distraction...	23:18
elnino	daviddelikat - do you know anything about alexa?	23:27
elnino	.com?	23:27
daviddelikat	not really	23:27
elnino	ok	23:27
daviddelikat	thinking about investing	23:28
daviddelikat	?	23:28
elnino	like I said. Just surfing, I've come across it a couple times, wondering what it's all about.	23:28
daviddelikat	I think they use data from search engines to rank web sites	23:29
elnino	I wonder which engines	23:32
daviddelikat	yahoo, google, all the big ones.	23:32
daviddelikat	they have stats that you can access	23:33
daviddelikat	http://www.google.com/trends	23:35
elnino	cool- google tracks the flu. There's a tangent I didn't expect. oh. I'm going to get off the computer and organize now.. Have a good day daviddelikat!	23:43
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CIA-38	WebGUI: daviddelikat * r10291 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Form/Date.pm):	02:18
CIA-38	WebGUI: Form::Date::toHtml was coded to set value tgo the default this caused	02:18
CIA-38	WebGUI: the default value to be displayed in some cases.	02:18
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--- Day changed Mon Apr 13 2009
CIA-38	WebGUI: translation * r10292 /translations/Serbian/ (168 files in 2 dirs): Update from translation server	00:10
CIA-38	WebGUI: translation * r10293 /translations/Serbian/Serbian/DateTime.pm: Update from translation server	00:10
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CIA-38	WebGUI: yung * r10294 /WebGUI/ (5 files in 4 dirs): added alphanumeric sort button to Matrix defaul view	00:39
CIA-38	WebGUI: yung * r10295 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (5 files in 4 dirs): added alphanumeric sort button to Matrix default view	00:39
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CIA-38	WebGUI: translation * r10296 /translations/Portuguese/Portuguese/ (6 files): Update from translation server	01:41
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CIA-38	WebGUI: daviddelikat * r10297 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): fixed bug 9989: thing pagination no longer includes datasave params	04:06
+perlDreamer	daviddelikat, if you're fixing bugs, don't forget to backport them to the 7.6 branch	04:07
* perlDreamer will be back later		04:08
daviddelikat	thanks perlDreamer	04:13
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daviddelikat	where do packages go for stable bug fixes?	05:08
daviddelikat	this is just a simple template edit	05:10
daviddelikat	brb	05:10
+perlDreamer	daviddelikat: /data/branch/WebGUI_7.6/docs/upgrades/packages_{correct_package_version}	05:11
daviddelikat	so the last package directory is versioned 7.6.8, is that the correct one?	05:14
daviddelikat	perlDreamer: I thought those directories were used by the upgrade process?	05:15
+perlDreamer	they are	05:15
daviddelikat	is there an upgrade for bugfix reledases?	05:15
+perlDreamer	there is only 1 upgrade process	05:15
+perlDreamer	it does new issues, and bugfixes as well	05:16
daviddelikat	I thought new stuff would not go out to stable sites	05:16
daviddelikat	oh, I get it.	05:16
daviddelikat	never mind...	05:17
+perlDreamer	:)	05:18
+perlDreamer	Happy Easter, daviddelikat	05:18
daviddelikat	he is risen...	05:19
+perlDreamer	He is risen, indeed	05:21
CIA-38	WebGUI: daviddelikat * r10298 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (5 files in 5 dirs):	05:39
CIA-38	WebGUI: fixed bug 9989: thing pagination no longer includes datasave params	05:39
CIA-38	WebGUI: fixed bug 9764: dragDrop to use a handle rather than the whole	05:39
CIA-38	WebGUI: object for dragdrop start events.	05:39
CIA-38	WebGUI: fixed bug 10122: Form::Date::toHtml was coded to set value tgo the default this caused	05:39
CIA-38	WebGUI: the default value to be displayed in some cases.	05:39
CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10299 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Group.pm: Correct the Group.pm POD for delete.	05:40
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CIA-38	WebGUI: colin * r10300 /WebGUI/t/ (Group.t Asset/Asset.t lib/WebGUI/Test.pm Asset/Post.t):	06:19
CIA-38	WebGUI: Provide a way for WebGUI::Test to register groups to clean up at	06:19
CIA-38	WebGUI: the end of a test.	06:19
CIA-38	WebGUI: Convert several tests to use that, including Post.t, which leaked Groups.	06:19
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dionak	does anyone know of an existing macro that i can pass a file asset Id and get the web url back? I am using a sql report that is pulling data from thingy	17:57
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+perlDreamer	brief announcement	18:31
+perlDreamer	WebGUI Network News issue #2 is released	18:31
+perlDreamer	http://perldreamer.com/wnn/issue-2	18:31
+perlDreamer	as requested, it's in web format	18:32
+perlDreamer	and I think weekly is too frequent, as there's not as much content in issue #2 as issue #1	18:32
+perlDreamer	any thoughts?	18:37
+perlDreamer	did I miss any newsworthy news last week?	18:37
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CIA-38	WebGUI: yung * r10301 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/MatrixListing.pm): fixed product/manufacturer links for pending matrix listings	18:52
CIA-38	WebGUI: yung * r10302 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/MatrixListing.pm): fixed product/manufacturer links on pending matrix lisstings	18:52
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@rizen	the only thing you missed, because i didn't announce it (bad JT) is big bugfix day tomorrow	19:06
@rizen	whole PB staff will be working on it	19:06
@rizen	hopefully community too	19:06
@rizen	i'm announcing it in my blog this morning	19:06
* perlDreamer puts on his bug busting hat		19:07
+perlDreamer	I'm sure that all 7 WNN readers will be there, too :)	19:07
+perlDreamer	and in non-WebGUI news, I got skype up and working on my laptop over the weekend	19:08
@steveo_aa	When modifying a schema table for a Wobject class, I seem to be having a problem getting asset->update to save to that field. Am I missing something obvious?	19:10
+perlDreamer	more details?	19:10
@Haarg	you added it to the table and the definition?	19:11