WebGUI irc logs from: 2009-03.log

--- Log opened Sun Mar 01 00:00:01 2009
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+perlDreamer	preaction: format: query, nature: codeReview: response: availability	00:26
@preaction	format: response; re: codeReview; content: I am currently available, ask forth your question	00:26
+perlDreamer	http://webgui.pastebin.com/m64f95d46	00:28
+perlDreamer	It's just the first pass, but all feedback is appreciated.	00:29
@preaction	i would try to break out as much JS as possible into a seperate .js file (preferably under yui-webgui)	00:29
+perlDreamer	with AJAXI18n, there's no reason the whole thing can't be a separate JS file	00:30
@preaction	so then you just call something like "var ah = new WebGUI.AssetHistory();"	00:30
@preaction	yeah, that too	00:30
@preaction	it makes it more of an application, and far more useful	00:30
@preaction	so even if the Perl code changes completely, the JS can be used later (in the new admin console)	00:31
+perlDreamer	"new" admin console?	00:31
@preaction	we've been talking about it at the WUC since 7.5	00:31
@preaction	even showed screenshots	00:31
* perlDreamer is drawing a blank. Do you have a URL for video/presentation?		00:33
@preaction	it was one of JT's keynotes	00:34
@preaction	last year's keynote, i believe	00:34
@preaction	otherwise, if i'm mistaken, then there will eventually be a new admin interface	00:34
+perlDreamer	aside from getting chocolate in the peanut butter, any other suggestions?	00:36
@preaction	you might want to change www_manage to www_view instead, just for consistency's sake	00:37
@preaction	and run it through perltidy	00:37
@preaction	otherwise, looks great	00:38
+perlDreamer	I was thinking it returned too much data, from the getHistoryAsJson	00:38
+perlDreamer	and some date formatting	00:39
@preaction	not really. i would want more data personally, like exactly what changed (we don't really keep records of that though)	00:39
+perlDreamer	no, just the actionTaken set of options	00:39
@preaction	though it would be possible to do a compare of the available revisions in the future if someone wants that feature	00:40
@preaction	i like that it exposes this feature we've always had and nobody knew about	00:40
@preaction	it might stir some good ideas in the community	00:40
+perlDreamer	yeah, I've been telling people about it for a while, but it's hard for the average admin to use.	00:40
@preaction	oh. you should add a tab to the admin console about this. you should also add a different privilege group to the Settings page	00:41
@preaction	the "12" magic number shouldn't be used	00:41
@preaction	though that's only my opinion, which is subject to overrule	00:42
+perlDreamer	I think you're right. I used 12 as a placeholder for lack of anything better.	00:42
+perlDreamer	What do you think about a date range search option?	00:42
@preaction	how much data really gets returned? if it's more than 50 rows, then probably yes	00:43
@preaction	i hate date range searches though, maybe let the user input a date and search +/- 5 days? or 7 days? or something like that	00:43
@preaction	well, that's just an idea. not sure i like that idea either	00:44
+perlDreamer	it only returns 50 rows, but it seems wasteful to send the whole user table when only the username is used	00:44
@preaction	then get: assetHistory.*,users.username <-	00:45
@preaction	instead of *	00:45
+perlDreamer	that's easier than typing all the columns by hand :)	00:45
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perlDreamer1	one last question, preaction. Do you think it's RFE-able for 7.7, or should I just put it into the Bazaar?	00:55
@preaction	i think it's RFE-able for 7.7 myself	00:55
perlDreamer1	I'll submit an RFE w/patch after I get all the tidying up done on it.	00:56
perlDreamer1	thanks, preaction!	00:57
perlDreamer1	time for me to crawl up into the attic :/	00:57
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CIA-46	WebGUI: translation * r9688 /translations/Russian/ (78 files in 2 dirs): Update from translation server	20:30
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xdanger	can the commit approval workflow be changed per group or per user somehow?	01:41
CIA-46	WebGUI: translation * r9689 /translations/Russian/ (37 files in 2 dirs): Update from translation server	01:57
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elnino	hi! I think somewhere along the lines, the paypal payment module is scheduled for some release, anyone privy to when that may be?	02:16
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elnino	hi. wondering if there is any word on the paypal module, I thought it was scheduled for 7.7, is that still correct?	05:19
@preaction	elnino: as far as i know, yes	06:37
elnino	HI!	06:38
elnino	And that is June or something right?	06:38
elnino	preaction, if I start writing one, is there anyone that would be willing to review my work?	06:39
elnino	maybe we can get it in sooner?	06:40
@preaction	i believe martin kamerbeek is writing one right now, you might want to coordinate with him using the dev mailing list	06:40
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elnino	ok. Thanks preaction. what is his name here?	06:51
@preaction	MrHairgrease	06:52
elnino	oh that's right.	06:53
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CIA-46	WebGUI: yung * r9690 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): added edit link to matrix listing view	12:25
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ryuu_ro	Hi all	14:42
+BartJol	not him	14:42
+BartJol	:)	14:42
ryuu_ro	i have this form which executes a query on some tables	14:42
ryuu_ro	I process the form with $sessin->form->process	14:43
ryuu_ro	but when I enter 0 in my form field the form var doesn't get processed	14:43
ryuu_ro	also form->param doesn't do the trick	14:44
ryuu_ro	is this a bug?	14:44
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+BartJol	ryuu_ro: if you copied it, $sessin->form->process doesn't seem spelled right	15:52
ryuu_ro	yeah that's just a typo	15:53
+BartJol	just making sure	15:53
ryuu_ro	I understand why it isn't being processed but I don't think that it shouldn't	15:53
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SDuensin	Greetings.	17:11
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BartJo1	morning scott	17:29
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xdanger	can the commit approval workflow be changed per group or per user somehow?	17:35
BartJo1	it should be possible in 7.6	17:38
BartJo1	evry user has a version tag workflow in the profile	17:39
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+perlmonkey2	I want to add the ability to do site wide default question group definition editing. This would not be Survey specific, but system wide. So that editing the question groups would change them for the site. This is just for the pre-defined multiple choice question groups. Anyone have an idea how to go about this? Should it be an editor in the Admin Console? An editor on each survey instance?	18:14
+perlDreamer	If it's Survey specific, I'd say a link on each Survey.	18:20
+perlDreamer	that way, anyone who can edit a survey can get to it	18:20
+perlDreamer	kind of like the Style Wizard for templates.	18:20
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+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: well it is more to be site wide. To give CM's a place to alter the default question types.	18:41
+perlmonkey2	The ones I put in there were pretty specific to the US and to Sociology.	18:42
+perlDreamer	the Admin Console keeps growing, so if it's something just to tweak 1 asset, I still think it belongs in the Asset.	18:42
+perlDreamer	of course, /me is a strongly opinionated IRC squatter, so what does he know?	18:46
BartJo1	perlDreamer: you have a bed in the IRC channel?	18:50
+perlDreamer	I sleep on that bench over there	18:51
BartJo1	ah	18:51
rizen_	put it into the survey	18:51
BartJo1	didn't loom that way yet	18:52
rizen_	make it a menu option	18:52
rizen_	and just don't link it to a specific asset id	18:52
rizen_	and on the page, state that these are global question group types	18:52
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+perlmonkey2	rizen: sounds groovy.	18:56
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+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: drove through West Oklahoma, the Panhandle of Texas, and East New Mexico last week. Gigawatts of wind farms through that way. Just whole horizons full of the things, absolutely beautiful. And now I've got the wind turbine bug again in a bad way. Thinking of going against personal policy and just buying a welder brand new.	18:59
+perlDreamer	sometimes, sacrifices must be made in the name of progress.	18:59
+perlDreamer	maybe welders hold their value so well that they don't drop in price quickly over time	19:00
+perlDreamer	I wish the Stock Market was that way...	19:00
+perlmonkey2	Yeah, 13 year lows and dropping.	19:00
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9691 /branch/WebGUI_Story/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.6.14-7.7.0.pl: Add column for approval workflow.	19:01
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9692 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (3 files in 3 dirs):	19:01
CIA-46	WebGUI: Add methods for creating and getting date specific folders below the Archive for	19:01
CIA-46	WebGUI: holding stories. With tests.	19:01
CIA-46	WebGUI: Code for the approval workflow for stories.	19:01
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: heh, maybe instead of holding gold, people should hold welders. As the good ones really don't seem to lose much value.	19:01
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+perlDreamer	rizen: Kathy got a letter from OHSU.	19:26
+perlDreamer	She's on the alternates list this year	19:26
+perlDreamer	so there's a chance she may get in	19:26
@rizen	seet	19:28
@rizen	sweet	19:28
@rizen	tell her congrats for me	19:28
+perlDreamer	I will	19:28
deafferret	PhD in Perl?	19:29
+perlDreamer	certified nurse/midwife	19:29
deafferret	w/ a Perl specialty?	19:29
+perlDreamer	no, the program is deficient that way.	19:30
+perlDreamer	I have her signed up for special tutoring	19:30
deafferret	nurse! zero-width negative look-behind assertion! stat!	19:31
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9693 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/_NewAsset.skeleton: Fix POD/whitespace issues.	20:03
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+perlDreamer	it's scary when you can start writing phrases with 22 characters in them, give or take a character	21:31
+perlDreamer	deafferret, I'm thinking of going for a run. What are you eating today?	21:37
@preaction	i'll eat chicken parmesan for him	21:40
@preaction	heavy on the parmesan	21:40
+perlDreamer	that sounds like at least a medium run	21:43
* perlmonkey2 thanks WebGUI for tabforms.		21:57
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+perlDreamer	Mech422Home: howdy :)	22:17
Mech422Home	hi :-)	22:17
Mech422Home	Uggh - I hate apache	22:18
+perlDreamer	do you like some other server better?	22:20
Mech422Home	nginx looks promising	22:22
Mech422Home	apache is just too 'kitchen sink' - too many knobs, too much to go wrong	22:22
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SynQ	hi there	22:27
SynQ	is github broken?	22:29
+perlDreamer	it would appear so.	22:29
+perlDreamer	that's what they get for writing it in ruby	22:30
SynQ	hmm	22:32
SynQ	that is what I dreaded by putting the WebGUI repository in a 3th party's hands	22:32
SynQ	we had that with sf.net	22:32
SynQ	now we are going to get it with github.com	22:33
+perlDreamer	since it's git, it's only really a problem when you want to do a pull from github.com	22:33
+perlDreamer	commits are fine	22:33
SynQ	I am not sure I think that makes it more workable	22:34
SynQ	it's always a problem when you want to collaborate	22:34
SynQ	for instance	22:34
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SynQ	I want to see if JT has done any work on wre in the git repo	22:34
SynQ	but I cant	22:34
SynQ	since github.com is offline	22:34
SynQ	git.webgui.org would be a far better place	22:35
SynQ	since that would be under direct control of plainblack	22:35
@rizen	i haven't yet	22:35
SynQ	ah	22:35
SynQ	:)	22:35
SynQ	hi	22:35
@rizen	we're sticking with svn for wre until 1.0 comes out	22:35
@rizen	which should be this week	22:35
@rizen	or next	22:35
SynQ	ok nice	22:35
@rizen	if all goes according to plan	22:36
SynQ	I wanted to verify if I indeed created a github account	22:36
SynQ	graham allready asked me	22:36
SynQ	rizen: do you develop the WRE on your personal mac or on a linux box?	22:36
SynQ	and: do you know if the wre HEAD still compiles on your systems after the changes I did?	22:37
@rizen	i do it on my mac	22:38
@rizen	and i'll be finding out shortly whether it does or not	22:38
SynQ	:)	22:38
@rizen	still trying to work through some bugs in your sources .sh files	22:38
SynQ	I have it up and running now at host003.procolix.com	22:38
SynQ	what kind of bugs?	22:38
@rizen	http://archive.cs.uu.nl/mirror/CPAN/authors/id/R/RC/RCAPUTO/POE-Component-Client-DNS-1.02.tar.gz:	22:38
@rizen	2009-03-02 11:15:36 ERROR 404: Not Found.	22:38
@rizen	tar (child): POE-Component-Client-DNS-1.02.tar.gz: Cannot open: No such file or directory	22:38
@rizen	tar (child): Error is not recoverable: exiting now	22:38
@rizen	tar: Child returned status 2	22:38
@rizen	tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors	22:38
@rizen	mirror might be down or something	22:39
SynQ	ah	22:39
SynQ	change the MIRROR variable on top of that file	22:39
SynQ	to the cpan.org line	22:39
@rizen	well it's not the mirror itself	22:39
SynQ	that is commented in top of it	22:39
@rizen	cuz other files come down fine	22:39
SynQ	ah ok	22:39
SynQ	I had that too	22:39
@rizen	i'm just wondering if that mirror is missing some files	22:39
@rizen	or whatever	22:39
@rizen	i'm lookinginto it	22:39
SynQ	it's one of the mirrors that is not completely up to date	22:39
SynQ	the best thing would be to let CPAN do the downloading of that particular file	22:40
SynQ	I wanted to ask you if you agree on this:....	22:40
SynQ	we want to release a WRE that has exactly that set of modules that we tested and approved not newer or older ones, right?	22:40
@rizen	right	22:41
SynQ	ok	22:41
@rizen	which is why cpan can't be allowed to download anything	22:41
SynQ	that is why I created that downloadscript	22:41
@rizen	we must do it	22:41
SynQ	indeed	22:41
SynQ	but we might be able to use the CPAN module to download particular versions of perl modules from the perl mirrors	22:41
SynQ	that might solve the error-checking right away	22:42
SynQ	btw: http://host003.procolix.com	22:43
SynQ	WebGUI 7.6.13 running on WRE HEAD :)	22:43
@rizen	cool	22:43
SynQ	what I could do is tar my entire sources tree and put them in http://host003.procolix.com/uploads/somewhere.tar	22:44
SynQ	admin 123qwe	22:44
SynQ	go ahead :)	22:44
SynQ	that is not cool. This is: http://dev.anxietyonline.org.au/	22:45
SynQ	that is served by a cluster of 6 virtual machines	22:45
SynQ	2 loadbalancers LVS, 2 apache servers (modperl, modproxy) and 2 mysql servers (one in slave mode)	22:45
+perlDreamer	are you hosting that, SynQ?	22:46
SynQ	perlDreamer: no I built it	22:46
SynQ	it is running on vm's in australia	22:47
+perlDreamer	I see	22:47
SynQ	or at least by an australian based company	22:47
SynQ	I am hosting this: http://www.loopsetshop.com	22:47
Mech422Home	SynQ: Hmm - lvs is still the load balancer of choice ?	22:47
Mech422Home	I'm assuming thats to avoid s.p.o.f. and not for load balancing reasons ?	22:48
SynQ	Mech422Home: actually I'd prefer a netscaler	22:48
SynQ	assumption is the mother of all error	22:49
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9694 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Story code. Added validParent, storage location code.	22:49
SynQ	Mech422Home: what alternative would you use then?	22:49
Mech422Home	I don't have s.p.o.f. worries - we usually just use pound	22:50
Mech422Home	I use varnish for caching - that can load balance if you don't need fancy sessioning	22:50
Mech422Home	perlbal is supposed ot be good too, right ?	22:50
SynQ	hold on a moment	22:51
SynQ	pound is not really a load balancer	22:51
+perlDreamer	what is SPOF?	22:51
Mech422Home	its a proxy load balancer - but how is that not a 'real' load balancer?	22:52
SynQ	it's more of spraying reverse proxy	22:52
Mech422Home	single point of failure	22:52
SynQ	a 'real' loadbalancer does nothing with the content	22:52
SynQ	have you read the LVS manual?	22:52
Mech422Home	synq: pound doesn't do anything with it unless you ask (sticky sessions)	22:52
Mech422Home	not in about 5 years	22:53
Mech422Home	which is why I asked	22:53
Mech422Home	pound is the 'de facto' standard for zope/plone - so I've used that for close to 10 years now..	22:53
SynQ	ah	22:53
Mech422Home	I haven't looked at lvs or ultramonkey or any of that in ages	22:53
SynQ	I would use LVS for any	22:54
SynQ	ultramonkey again is something completely different	22:54
SynQ	varnish I don't know about and perlbal is also a proxy	22:54
SynQ	let me put it this way...	22:55
+MrHairgrease	anbody had trouble using yui's datatable	22:55
+MrHairgrease	and get this error?	22:55
+perlDreamer	MrHairgrease: every day :(	22:55
Mech422Home	yes, proxy and load balancer are not mutually exclusive	22:55
+MrHairgrease	�invalid 'instanceof' operand DS if(oDataSource && (oDataSource instanceof DS)) {	22:55
SynQ	if you really want to build a load balanced cluster you want a combination of LVS, Heartbeat, MySQL with replication, a reverse proxy, multiple modperl hosts, a dedicated spectre server and perhaps some more caching layers	22:56
Mech422Home	I tend to think of lvs when you need stuff like open connection support - forwarding tcp/ip connections, etc.	22:56
SynQ	indeed	22:56
Mech422Home	umm - yeah, assuming you use all that :-)	22:56
SynQ	and you want to have that too	22:56
SynQ	so your question is a bit strange	22:56
Mech422Home	I generally don't run mysql or perl - webgui is new to me - my main biz. is plone	22:57
SynQ	if you really want a loadbalancer	22:57
SynQ	you use a loadbalancer	22:57
+perlDreamer	MrHairgrease, can you paste some code?	22:57
SynQ	and not a proxy	22:57
Mech422Home	umm - whatever - yer getting pendantic :-P	22:57
SynQ	and if you want I loadbalancer I would recommend LVS	22:57
SynQ	it is really the best	22:57
SynQ	now let's discuss proxies :)	22:57
+MrHairgrease	yeah, I was doing that: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m42f9594f	22:58
Mech422Home	yes, a $20K hardware load balancer would be nice, but if I don't need spof support, the proxy based solutions work fine :-)	22:58
SynQ	I woul like to use nginx	22:58
+MrHairgrease	line 7 triggers the error	22:58
SynQ	LVS does not cost $20K	22:58
Mech422Home	I realize that...	22:58
SynQ	and if you don't need spof support a proxy still is not the same as a loadbalancer	22:59
Mech422Home	please don't lecture - I know my biz - your needs seem to be different, thats all	22:59
SynQ	:)	22:59
SynQ	It's not about your bizz	22:59
Mech422Home	whatever	22:59
SynQ	I kiss you :)	22:59
SynQ	a loadbalancer cannot be 'proxy based'	23:00
SynQ	a proxy is something else	23:00
@rizen	Mech422: don't take it personally. SynQ is just annoying by nature	23:00
Mech422Home	rizen: so I see	23:00
SynQ	indeed so	23:00
SynQ	martin can vouch for that too :P	23:00
+MrHairgrease	perldreamer: forgot to include a line, this one's right: http://webgui.pastebin.com/ma540a0d	23:00
@rizen	at last year's wuc he got under my skin so bad that i ended up shouting at him in front of a dozen people in one of the sessions i was leading at the wuc	23:01
SynQ	rizen: how is your opinion on experimenting with nginx instead of apache for modproxy	23:01
SynQ	that was adorable JT :)	23:01
+MrHairgrease	rizen: next time shout with your fist =)	23:01
+MrHairgrease	something else won't make him stop =)	23:02
@rizen	i have no idea what nginx is, but in general there would have to be some absolutely amazing advantages to make me consider switching away from modproxy	23:02
SynQ	that is not true martin and you know it :P	23:02
+perlDreamer	MrHairgrease: is it still line 7 that is the problem?, or now 15?	23:02
Mech422Home	rizen: nginx servers about 25% of v hosts on the net now..according to their site	23:02
+MrHairgrease	15	23:03
SynQ	rizen: one absolutely amazing advantage is that with nginx you can tell the proxy to give only so much bandwith per client	23:03
+MrHairgrease	teh error comes from deep in the DataTable source	23:03
@rizen	just because most of the world uses it, doesn't make it great though. look at IE for example.	23:03
Mech422Home	rizen: touche :-)	23:03
Mech422Home	rizen: so is varnish cache out of the question too ?	23:03
SynQ	making it a lot more difficult for one user to saturate the entire webserver	23:03
@rizen	that's a pretty cool feature	23:04
Mech422Home	rizen: its a lot faster then squid for man cases	23:04
SynQ	Mech422: what is the url for that varnish stuff?	23:04
+perlDreamer	Mech422Home, that's 25% of the vservers in Russia, unless I misread that	23:04
SynQ	rizen: nginx has a smaller memory footprint than apache (much) since it has a different threading model	23:05
SynQ	I don't care how much servers it runs on	23:05
+perlDreamer	MrHairgrease: do you have connection-min loaded?	23:05
SynQ	actually	23:05
Mech422Home	synq: http://varnish.projects.linpro.no/	23:05
SynQ	but it's nice that at least some sites use it :)	23:05
SynQ	Mech422: thanks	23:05
+MrHairgrease	perlDreamer: yup	23:05
SynQ	varnish doesn't run on mac?	23:06
Mech422Home	perldreamer: Hmm - could be - I seem to recall seein it was 25% total though - maybe netcraft or something	23:06
Mech422Home	SynQ: given its 'c' - I have no clue	23:06
Mech422Home	phk is an fbsd legend though - so it should	23:06
+MrHairgrease	perldreamer: http://webgui.pastebin.com/d51c43536	23:07
+MrHairgrease	the error comes from line 4416	23:07
+MrHairgrease	so maybe I'm borking my DataSource	23:07
+MrHairgrease	checking on that	23:07
SynQ	jt: source of all is here: http://host003.procolix.com/uploads/source.tgz	23:08
SynQ	it's 431M	23:08
@rizen	synq, can it still do all the stuff modproxy can do? like url rewrites, ssl, setting cache headers, etc?	23:08
@rizen	i have the source down, but thanks	23:08
SynQ	yes it can	23:08
SynQ	ok great	23:09
@rizen	then we can talk about it for wre 1.1	23:09
SynQ	sure thing	23:09
@rizen	as for 1.0 i just want to get the damn thing out the door	23:09
SynQ	indeed	23:09
SynQ	64 bits?	23:09
@rizen	that's the goal	23:09
SynQ	or is even that optional?	23:09
@rizen	if i can't make it 64 bits by the end of the week, then i'm going to release it as 0.9	23:09
@rizen	cuz we need a release	23:09
SynQ	good plan	23:09
@rizen	and i can't release it as 1.0 until it's 64 bit	23:10
SynQ	if you do release it as 0.9	23:10
SynQ	I'm going to update it bi-weekly with updated perl modules if available	23:10
SynQ	as 0.9.1 and 0.9.2 etc	23:10
+perlDreamer	MrHairgrease, http://webgui.pastebin.com/d631c5223	23:11
@rizen	why SynQ ?	23:11
+perlDreamer	MrHairgrease: maybe it doesn't like the XHRDataSource?	23:12
SynQ	to keep up with security releases	23:12
SynQ	a security hole in one of the things that webgui runs on is a bad thing	23:12
SynQ	that problem should be attended to	23:13
SynQ	and I'm willing to do that	23:13
@rizen	ok, but the problem is that you're likely introducing more bugs than you're fixing	23:13
SynQ	well	23:13
@rizen	if you're updating all the modules	23:13
@rizen	updating just the ones that have security problems is one thing	23:13
@rizen	but updating all of them is something else	23:13
SynQ	I will run the complete test-bed after each update and before committing	23:13
+perlDreamer	SynQ: the tests do not fully cover WebGUI	23:14
@rizen	that's not enough	23:14
SynQ	oh	23:14
+perlDreamer	hand testing each type of asset is still required	23:14
Mech422Home	ouch - that sounds like a bitch	23:14
+perlDreamer	you need to unleash your horde of programmers on writing tests	23:14
@rizen	that's why doing what you're talking about is not a good idea	23:14
+MrHairgrease	perlDreamer: perhaps, but I built this according to the documentation	23:14
SynQ	ok	23:14
SynQ	only modules that have security problems then?	23:15
+MrHairgrease	I'm trying to find out how to get data out of a DS	23:15
+perlDreamer	MrHairgrease: I was just looking at this: http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/examples/datatable/dt_xhrjson.html	23:15
+MrHairgrease	that way I can check whether I have data or not	23:15
+perlDreamer	I've seen some kind of a callback for that	23:17
@rizen	that would be fine SynQ	23:17
SynQ	I'll release an 'experimental' WRE and a 'stable' one	23:17
+perlDreamer	maybe it was in the AssetManager?	23:17
+perlDreamer	believe it or not, if no data is sent the DataTable will do the right thing	23:17
SynQ	learning how to write tests seems like a bit of a steep learning curve for me	23:18
SynQ	you need the entire WebGUI api to be able to use that	23:19
+perlDreamer	SynQ, not always. The idea is not to get overwhelmed with the whole task, but to pick one thing and test it.	23:20
+perlDreamer	and then to test another	23:20
+perlDreamer	and another	23:20
+perlDreamer	lots and lots of small steps	23:20
+perlDreamer	it's parallelizable	23:20
SynQ	rizen: if you make sure you check in to svn regularly I can run multiple compile runs regularly	23:20
SynQ	perlDreamer: ok	23:21
Mech422Home	is there a buildbot type thing for perl ?	23:21
Mech422Home	an automated builder/tester ?	23:21
+perlDreamer	Mech422Home, _for_ perl, for perl type projects, or _in_ perl?	23:21
+perlDreamer	I hear some people use smolder	23:21
+perlDreamer	and tinderbox	23:22
Mech422Home	for perl type projects	23:22
+perlDreamer	smolder	23:22
Mech422Home	python projects pretty much use buildbot	23:22
Mech422Home	it's sorta the 'standard' - is there one for perl ? hmm - I'll have to look that up	23:23
Mech422Home	would it make sense to put up 'smolder' instances for wG ?	23:23
+perlDreamer	sure!	23:23
Mech422Home	I can rig up a vm for it..maybe get 2 or 3 of them going at different places so we don't have a 'github' type issue ?	23:23
+perlDreamer	with lots of them, we'd need a good aggregator. I think smolder will do that, too.	23:24
Mech422Home	prolly don't need lots - but 2 or 3 so you can always see one...	23:25
Mech422Home	perlDreamer: ok - smack me upside the head later if I don't give you an ip	23:25
+perlDreamer	ip?	23:25
Mech422Home	i.p. address	23:26
Mech422Home	for smolder/vm	23:26
Mech422Home	I'll have to figure out smolder first though	23:26
+perlDreamer	you sound like you know your way around. The fun part will be getting it to play well with the WRE	23:26
+perlDreamer	each one wants its own private set of modules	23:26
Mech422Home	ahh - so 1 smolder can test multiple 'versions' of the wre ?	23:28
+perlDreamer	I wouldn't think so.	23:28
Mech422Home	oh - then whats with the 'each one' above ??	23:28
Mech422Home	wont there just be one wre thats being tested ? (with one set of private modules?)	23:28
+perlDreamer	smolder has a "private" cache of perl modules that it prefers to use. The WRE also has a private cache of modules.	23:29
+perlDreamer	as long as smolder resets the paths correctly, it should not be a problem	23:29
* perlDreamer quits procrastinating, and goes running.		23:30
Mech422Home	hmm..	23:30
+perlDreamer	cue deafferret for counter-balancing food commentary	23:30
Mech422Home	heh	23:31
SynQ	ok	23:38
SynQ	off to bed	23:38
SynQ	later	23:38
SynQ	~	23:38
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@preaction	anyone on the WRE right now can confirm that i'm not going completely nuts?	00:28
@preaction	if your WebGUI is in /data/WebGUI, go to /data and do "wreservice.pl --restart modperl"	00:28
@preaction	since "." is in the @INC, WebGUI tries to load: WebGUI::lib::WebGUI::Asset and WebGUI::lib::WebGUI::Pluggable and etc...	00:29
@Haarg	interesting	00:35
@Haarg	i would expect that to happen though, yeah	00:36
@preaction	afaik it never caused problems before, now it refuses to start the server	00:37
@preaction	let me find the exact error	00:37
@preaction	and this is probably my fault	00:37
+perlDreamer	It's March, preaction, everything is your fault	00:38
@preaction	how it that different from February?	00:38
+perlDreamer	February it's khenn's turn	00:38
+perlDreamer	I have November	00:38
@preaction	sure, give khenn the smallest month...	00:38
@Haarg	actually, last time i saw that preaction was when there was a /WebGUI directory	00:40
@Haarg	because apache will chdir /	00:40
CIA-46	WebGUI: jt * r9695 /wrebuild/ (6 files in 2 dirs):	00:41
CIA-46	WebGUI: removed subversion, swig, and neon	00:41
CIA-46	WebGUI: added notes about libgomp for rhel5	00:41
CIA-46	WebGUI: updated PoCo DNS and PoCo HTTP	00:41
CIA-46	WebGUI: added rsync, ncurses, and readline	00:41
@Haarg	i wonder if we should remove '.' from the lib path in mod_perl	00:46
@preaction	i can't see any good reason why it should be in there	00:51
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+perlDreamer	awesome patspam interview	01:01
+perlDreamer	anyone who says WebGUI needs more tests is okay in my book	01:01
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patspam	heh thanks perlDreamer	01:02
+perlDreamer	and while we're on the subject, somebody needs to voice our new PBWG in channel	01:03
@preaction	somebody.	01:03
+perlDreamer	oh, you know. One of the Plain Black staff people with the leetle askerisks next to their names	01:03
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* patspam jumps for joy		01:03
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@Haarg	perlDreamer, i'm planning on changing wgd reset so options are always set in order of usage, so that 'wgd reset --no-uploads --dev' would recreate uploads but 'wgd reset --no-uploads --dev' would.	01:30
@Haarg	does that seem reasonable?	01:30
+perlDreamer	it allows for overriding, so yes	01:30
@Haarg	main reason is to allow for profiles to be overridden because currently they can't be	01:31
+perlDreamer	that'll be nice. that way you won't have to write dozens of profiles, just one or two that can be overridden/extended with a few options	01:32
@Haarg	yeah	01:32
@Haarg	i really need to start working on some api docs soon. i've tried to make it simple to use, but that means many parts aren't obvious if you are just reading the code.	01:32
+perlDreamer	over the weekend, I found myself wanting to type wgd restart http	01:33
@Haarg	heh	01:33
+perlDreamer	which would look in the config file for commands to restart apache	01:33
+perlDreamer	so it would work with or without the WRE	01:33
@Haarg	wouldn't be a bad idea	01:33
@Haarg	i have a shell script for that	01:33
@Haarg	since the wreservice script does extra verification that i don't want or need	01:34
+perlDreamer	whenever I restart apache, I always wipe the webgui log	01:34
+perlDreamer	service httpd stop; echo '' > /var/log/webgui.log; service httpd start	01:34
+perlDreamer	typing !service works well	01:34
+perlDreamer	until I muck with some other service	01:34
CIA-46	wgdev: Graham Knop autotest * r966a0af / lib/WGDev/Command/Reset.pm : Set directory mode correctly for systems with a max umask of 0777 - http://bit.ly/U8MwD	01:40
CIA-46	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r6092f7b / lib/WGDev/Command/Base.pm : more flexible command line parsing - http://bit.ly/Y04K	01:40
CIA-46	wgdev: Graham Knop autotest * rcffc054 / lib/WGDev/Command/Reset.pm : Merge branch 'master' into autotest - http://bit.ly/sXxPC	01:40
CIA-46	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r64e5fd0 / lib/WGDev/Command/Reset.pm :	01:40
CIA-46	wgdev: clean up argument parsing allowed by Base.pm changes	01:40
CIA-46	wgdev: Options are set based on their order on the command line. Later options	01:40
CIA-46	wgdev: override earlier options, including --dev style and --profile style. - http://bit.ly/4lvZcf	01:40
CIA-46	wgdev: Graham Knop master * rb083bba / lib/WGDev.pm : Also load libs from preload.custom - http://bit.ly/84kr3	01:40
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@preaction	perlDreamer: do !?service httpd	01:56
@preaction	or even just !?httpd	01:56
+perlDreamer	!? ??	01:56
@preaction	? = search the entire line for this string	01:56
+perlDreamer	oh	01:57
+perlDreamer	nice	01:57
@preaction	so !?httpd will look for the last line to have "httpd" in it	01:57
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+perlDreamer	this is very cool: http://www.omnipotent.net/jquery.sparkline/	02:47
+perlDreamer	and for me to say something like that about javascript, you know it's gotta be true	02:48
@preaction	wow	02:54
SDuensin	perlDreamer, you're easily amused. :-P	02:55
SDuensin	I show you guys Cappuccino and you're like, "eh".	02:55
+perlDreamer	did you see the little realtime javascript graph of mouse speed?	02:55
SDuensin	perlDreamer - http://280atlas.com/	02:58
+perlDreamer	this is a video? Did they make that with javascript.	03:05
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9696 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Test adding children, along with automatically adding folders.	03:05
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9697 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (lib/WebGUI/Asset/Story.pm t/Asset/Story.t): Add JSON handling, and move code form addRevision to update.	03:05
SDuensin	perlDreamer - Look at what their library does. It's amazing.	03:05
+perlDreamer	I'll watch the video later. Right now a violent, impatient 9-year old is clamoring for metro train videos	03:06
SDuensin	Uh, ok.	03:06
* perlDreamer wears many hats		03:07
@preaction	it's like xcode for webapps	03:09
SDuensin	Yep.	03:09
+perlDreamer	asking about xcode at this point would be ironic, yes?	03:10
SDuensin	They've basically implemented Cocoa.	03:10
@preaction	xcode is how you write OS X applications	03:10
SDuensin	And "Objective-J".	03:10
SDuensin	www.280slides.com was written with it.	03:10
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@preaction	it'd be interesting to see this backed by Thingy	03:12
SDuensin	?	03:12
@preaction	use this to build interfaces for Thingy data	03:12
SDuensin	Hell yea.	03:12
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* deafferret eats many hats		03:32
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+perlDreamer	I missed ya today, deafferret	04:05
+perlDreamer	preaction had to eat some parmesan chicked because you were absent	04:05
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deafferret	perlDreamer: Mondays are rough for IRC	04:40
+perlDreamer	lots of meetings?	04:41
deafferret	ya. 2 work locations, meetings all afternoon	04:41
deafferret	I get some work done before 1pm, then not so much	04:42
+perlDreamer	since starting my business, the number of meetings had dropped considerably	04:42
deafferret	how do people waste your time if you're the boss?	04:46
+patspam	does anyone know if there a good reason for wre perl to be compiled without threads support?	04:47
+perlDreamer	deafferret, I have children	04:49
+perlDreamer	patspam: would it interfere/clash with mod_perl/apache?	04:50
+patspam	I'm wondering that too..	04:50
+perlDreamer	although, perl -V on fedora says that it has a threaded perl	04:51
+patspam	threads were "new and to be treated with caution" in 5.8, but supposedly stable and only 2% slower these days	04:51
+patspam	yeah i think all the distros are moving to threaded perl now	04:51
+perlDreamer	patspam, what do you develop and host on?	04:51
+patspam	it might just be a wre legacy thing	04:51
+patspam	i use wre perl	04:52
+patspam	distro?	04:52
+perlDreamer	yeah	04:52
+patspam	ubuntu on my dev box	04:52
+perlDreamer	I figure I'm the only person nuts enough to not use the wre	04:52
+patspam	heh	04:52
deafferret	g'night all	04:52
+patspam	you use 5.10, that's awesome	04:52
+perlDreamer	later, deafferret	04:52
* perlDreamer wants to use say, ~~, switch and all the other goodies		04:53
+patspam	yeah, i'm dying to use them too	04:53
+patspam	I'll ask the list. I'm sure riven and synq know	04:55
+perlDreamer	yeah, maybe Haarg, too	04:55
* perlDreamer switches to Dad mode		05:00
+perlDreamer	catch y'all later :)	05:00
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+BartJol	nice interview Patrick	11:17
+patspam	thanks Bart :)	11:24
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CIA-46	WebGUI: brian * r9698 /branch/crop/lib/WebGUI/ (Asset/File/Image.pm Storage.pm i18n/English/Asset_Image.pm): checkpoint	13:25
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CIA-46	WebGUI: brian * r9699 /branch/crop/lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm: checkpoint	17:14
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+BartJol	khenn: I posted a macro for your rfe http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/add-quotsite-rankingsquot-to-karma	17:38
@khenn	cool	17:38
@khenn	I think I submitted that a few years back	17:39
+BartJol	it kinda works	17:39
@khenn	yeah seems to be missing the stars	17:39
+BartJol	but you need to take care of all the files and groupId	17:39
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+BartJol	but I don't know pb's staff groupId	17:39
+BartJol	and there is more karma nowadays	17:40
+BartJol	but to give all those variables as parameters, seemed a bit odd to me	17:40
+BartJol	oh, and khenn don't minde the part where all the db and ssh data is e-mailed to me, it's not important	17:42
@khenn	heh	17:42
+BartJol	;)	17:42
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+BartJol	tavisto: now I'm starting to get impatient	17:44
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+BartJol	who does receive messages from posts on the rfe list? I think one can be closed	18:28
@Haarg	which one?	18:28
+BartJol	http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/last-post-of-a-user-on-the-plainblack-/-webgui_org-site	18:29
+BartJol	wait, maybe I'm wrong	18:31
+BartJol	yeah, I am, again, I'm starting to bug me	18:31
+BartJol	sorry Haarg	18:31
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+BartJol	just wishfull thinking	18:32
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+perlDreamer	haven't read this one yet, but I will later today	18:42
+perlDreamer	http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/qibpbk7lXXE/article.pl	18:42
+perlDreamer	Comparing usability in wordpress and joomla	18:42
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@Haarg	very odd	18:56
@Haarg	every time i run the full test suite, t/ProfileCategory.t fails	18:56
@Haarg	but if i run it on its own it works	18:56
+perlDreamer	have you tried prove -v to figure out exactly what's failing?	18:57
@Haarg	not yet	18:58
+perlDreamer	I'll try it on my dev box to see what happens	18:58
@Haarg	that would be a books worth of output to go through though	18:58
+perlDreamer	but when I helped SynQ with the WRE two weeks ago, full test suites were passing	18:59
+perlDreamer	are you using any switches?	18:59
+perlDreamer	CODE_COP?	18:59
+perlDreamer	TEST_POD?	18:59
@Haarg	both	19:00
+perlDreamer	I'll try a quick run without, and see what that turns up	19:00
@Haarg	there are a couple test failures i have fixes for	19:00
+perlDreamer	brb	19:01
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+perlDreamer	back	19:05
@Haarg	re http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/9808	19:06
@Haarg	i think there's a typo there, and it it breaks the help test	19:06
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+perlDreamer	that's possible, but I thought I ran the i18n and help tests after fixing that	19:08
+perlDreamer	for me profileCategory.t fails without the extra switches	19:11
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+perlDreamer	dumping categories and rerunning	19:16
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+perlDreamer	Haarg: I changed two things at the same time	19:20
+perlDreamer	1) added dumping to the ProfileCategories test	19:20
+perlDreamer	2) Fixed a permission problem on uploads/temp	19:20
+perlDreamer	the next test run did not fail with profileCategory.t	19:20
+perlDreamer	which tests do you have fixes for?	19:21
@Haarg	survey	19:21
@Haarg	which is committed	19:21
@Haarg	and the ad tests	19:21
@Haarg	i'm going to keep looking at ProfileCategory	19:21
@Haarg	if you could look at help i'd appreciate it	19:22
+perlDreamer	you bet	19:22
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SynQ2	hi all	19:23
@Haarg	greetings	19:23
+perlDreamer	hole, SynQ2	19:23
SynQ2	I was wondering	19:23
SynQ2	last night JT said that it was unwise to update the perl modules in the WRE when new perl modules are available, since that would introduce more bugs than it would solve.	19:24
SynQ2	I have thought about that	19:24
SynQ2	and I think I disagree	19:24
+perlDreamer	if he were here, he would point out the JSON module as an example of that	19:25
* MrHairgrease is nit surpised =)		19:25
SynQ2	but that was a MAJOR upgrade	19:25
SynQ2	not a minor one	19:25
+perlDreamer	there were problem in the 1.9 series of JSON, as well	19:25
SynQ2	that was not a bugfix	19:25
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SynQ2	that was a full upgrade to a different program	19:25
SynQ2	new features in webgui also introduce more bugs in the beginning than leaving them be would?	19:26
SynQ2	but I agree on the 'stable' vs. 'experimental' view with JT though	19:27
SynQ2	which sort of defies the argument :)	19:27
+perlDreamer	Haarg, it's fixed and committed. I either missed that, or didn't run the test	19:30
@Haarg	thanks	19:30
+perlDreamer	is VersionTag.t failing for you?	19:31
@Haarg	no	19:31
+perlDreamer	I'll rerun it, and try it standalone	19:31
@Haarg	http://gist.github.com/73413	19:32
@Haarg	pod on ::ProfileCategory->set says 'Update the profile field properties. Any property that is missing, or empty will be replaced with a default.'	19:35
+perlDreamer	that's not true either, but it's more accurate than what was there.	19:37
+perlDreamer	the 3 flags get reset if they are not present	19:37
+perlDreamer	but the labels don't	19:37
@Haarg	you sure?	19:38
@Haarg	reads to me like they get reset if not provided	19:38
@Haarg	which is what causes the test to fail	19:38
+perlDreamer	then why does it behave differently if you run it standalone?	19:39
@Haarg	it doesn't i don't think	19:39
@Haarg	i think i've just been neglecting to reset between test runs :/	19:39
+perlDreamer	ah	19:39
CIA-46	WebGUI: graham * r9700 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Wobject/Survey/SurveyJSON.t: survey test fix	19:40
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9701 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Search.pm: Fix a missing help entry in the i18n for the Search.	19:40
SynQ2	I would like to see Cache in the configfile turned to 'Database' by default, what are the arguments against that?	19:42
@Haarg	there are situations where the file cache perfoms better, but i tend to agree that db cache should be default	19:43
+perlDreamer	I used to think it was good that the tests kind of cross checked one another, but there are times when it is a huge pain	19:44
@Haarg	committed profilecategory test fix	19:45
+perlDreamer	Haarg, that test is "destructive" in that it changes the db config	19:47
+perlDreamer	should it reset that at the END?	19:47
@Haarg	which test?	19:47
+perlDreamer	ProfileCategory.t	19:47
@Haarg	ah	19:47
@Haarg	yeah, it probably should	19:47
+perlDreamer	I'll fix that	19:48
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SDuensin	Hey gang, is there a way to allow users edit rights to a page without creating a group for every one of them?	19:54
@Haarg	they can be set as the owner	19:55
@Haarg	there can only be one owner of course	19:55
SDuensin	Then just put them in "Turn Admin On"?	19:55
@Haarg	yeah	19:56
SDuensin	Ok, cool. I was headed that way, but figured I'd make sure.	19:56
+perlDreamer	Haarg, I'm still having wgd reset problems	19:58
@Haarg	permissions?	19:58
+perlDreamer	yes	19:58
@Haarg	how are they getting set?	19:58
+perlDreamer	the uploads/temp is never changed to be group writable	19:58
+perlDreamer	drwxr-sr-x 18 apache users 4096 2009-03-03 10:00 temp	19:58
@Haarg	i'm guessing a webgui problem	19:59
@Haarg	since wgd reset won't create 'temp'	19:59
+perlDreamer	good point	19:59
@Haarg	and webgui doesn't have that same permissions logic	19:59
@tavisto	SynQ2, did you get JT's email a few minutes ago? :)	20:00
+perlDreamer	this must happen during the upgrade then	20:00
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@tavisto	Mech422, you around?	20:01
+perlDreamer	yup	20:02
CIA-46	WebGUI: graham * r9702 /WebGUI/t/ProfileCategory.t: fix ProfileCategory test misusing the API	20:08
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9703 /WebGUI/t/ProfileCategory.t: Restore the original properties for the profile category that was modified for test.	20:08
CIA-46	WebGUI: koen * r9704 /wrebuild/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Tools for developers in a separate directory.	20:08
* perlDreamer goes to the gym		20:10
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SynQ2	ok	20:18
SynQ2	tavisto: my response has been posted just now :)	20:18
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SynQ2	I was busy looking at it	20:18
SynQ2	hi Kristy	20:19
SynQ2	ie	20:19
@tavisto	what do you think?	20:19
SynQ2	tavisto: http://www.webgui.org/web_design_templates_and_themes/webgui-site-redesign/1	20:19
SynQ2	:)	20:19
SynQ2	my first reaction was: 'where do I have to start'	20:20
SynQ2	they all have so much info in it	20:20
SynQ2	http://www.joomla.org/	20:20
SynQ2	three clear choices for newcomers	20:21
SynQ2	not to much butterflies all over the page	20:21
SynQ2	that I like	20:21
SynQ2	this is allready a bit less: http://www.typo3.com and gives me the same reaction as the current suggestion in 'webgui-site-redesign'	20:22
SynQ2	This is a bit too boring for my taste: http://www.opencms.org/en/	20:22
SynQ2	This is perhaps even better then the joomla site: http://www.opensourcecms.com	20:23
SynQ2	for a landing page that is	20:23
SynQ2	For a community portal this is not bad: http://php.opensourcecms.com/ allthough I still think 'IN YOUR FACE' banners suck especially if they move	20:24
SynQ2	This has the same 'suggested' clockwork http://ariadne.muze.nl/ and has had that for years now	20:26
@tavisto	ack, that looks like something from a mid 90's powerpoint	20:26
@tavisto	I don't like the typo3 site at all, looks low budget IMO	20:27
SynQ2	well	20:27
@tavisto	I like joomla's site, and open source cms intro is not real useful	20:27
@tavisto	it's just a splash with 3 options	20:27
@tavisto	:)	20:27
SynQ2	ok	20:27
SynQ2	for a newcomer 3 options is allready a lot :)	20:27
@tavisto	we are trying to instantly present options to people AND reach out to newbs	20:27
SynQ2	have you read my post?	20:28
@tavisto	so maybe we can improve the newbie friendliness	20:28
@tavisto	yep	20:28
SynQ2	if you then look at the joomla site	20:28
SynQ2	these 3 large things on the top	20:28
@tavisto	I think the crown is supposed to be the thing that reaches out to the new visitors. But what you are saying is that you didn't see that when the design loaded?	20:28
SynQ2	that is drawing all your attention to it	20:28
SynQ2	no I didn't	20:28
SynQ2	I gather Wg2009spec.jpg is the landingpage?	20:29
@tavisto	yeah, I understand that, we did the same thing with the 3 categories on our site. However, you're right we did opt to go with a designer section instead of a new visitor section	20:29
@tavisto	yes, that is the home	20:29
SynQ2	what I saw there was 'designer' 'community' 'developer'	20:29
@tavisto	I talked with Mego about whether or not a designer section at the bottom would be as important as having a new visitor section	20:29
SynQ2	what I missed was 'Right here, right now' I only saw that when I really looked at the page for like 20 seconds	20:30
SynQ2	that middle section should me more 'in your face'	20:30
@tavisto	gotcha, we'll lets see what other people say and maybe there will be a case for one of the sections to switch to new visitors	20:30
SynQ2	thus lighter and bigger than the 3 'designer' 'community' 'developer' thing	20:30
SynQ2	I'll do a mockup of what I mean	20:31
SynQ2	hang on...	20:31
@tavisto	sure, you should attach it to your post for greater clarification	20:31
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@bopbop	SynQ2: just read your post, and I love the idea of using a dashboard so users can customize the type of news or updates they want to see	20:54
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SynQ2	ok	21:00
SynQ2	added mockup to the discussion page	21:00
SynQ2	bopbop: do say that on the disussion in that place	21:06
@bopbop	yep, will do	21:06
SynQ2	the more people join in the discussion the better the site will become	21:06
SynQ2	have you seen my mockup?	21:06
SynQ2	Obviously I am not a designer	21:07
@bopbop	I did- JT will say you're trying to copy Joomla, which he won't like :)	21:07
@bopbop	however,	21:07
@bopbop	I do think it draws attention to those areas nicely	21:08
SynQ2	I am not trying to copy Joomla	21:08
@bopbop	it was something the designer was struggling with	21:08
SynQ2	I would like to copy their method of drawing attention to the 'go next here' way	21:08
SynQ2	beter stolen well then created poorly	21:08
@bopbop	I know you're not trying to copy Joomla.... I understand the intention, and I agree that it does a nice job of making it obvious for site users	21:09
SynQ2	ok	21:09
SynQ2	than say that on the discussion :)	21:09
@bopbop	ok	21:09
SynQ2	I gotta run	21:09
SynQ2	driving home to wife and kid	21:09
SynQ2	I'll be online tonight	21:09
SynQ2	in an hour or so	21:09
+MrHairgrease	is there something like a pastebin for images?	21:24
+MrHairgrease	ah, imagebin.ca	21:25
+MrHairgrease	anybody see the link? http://imagebin.ca/view/KMAetx.html	21:25
+MrHairgrease	finally some recognision!	21:25
* SDuensin preaches the good word all over!		21:37
+MrHairgrease	the weird thing is, though, that in all the comments the word webgui isn't being mentioned as far as i can tell	21:38
+MrHairgrease	apart from the tag that is	21:38
+perlDreamer	MrHairgrease, it must have been a keyword entered by the submitter	22:04
+perlDreamer	but, you're right!	22:04
+perlDreamer	Now, someone with a slashdot account, go talk about WebGUI in that thread!	22:05
@preaction	i believe in slashdot you can be a normal user and tag articles	22:07
+perlDreamer	is webgui.org down?	22:09
* deafferret votes no		22:09
@preaction	not for me	22:09
@preaction	wonderful. WebGUI::User->acceptsPrivateMessages takes a userId, but WebGUI::User->acceptsFriendsRequest takes another WebGUI::User object...	22:13
@preaction	it also does no validation, so the error shows up in WebGUI::Cache::FileCache	22:13
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CIA-46	WebGUI: graham * r9705 /WebGUI/ (t/AdSpace.t lib/WebGUI/AdSpace/Ad.pm t/AdSpace/Ad.t): fix AdSpace, Ad tests	22:17
CIA-46	WebGUI: graham * r9706 /WebGUI/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.6.14 release	22:17
+perlDreamer	preaction: we have to make WebGUI 8 have a common API	22:21
@preaction	perlDreamer: do you have a dropbox?	22:22
+perlDreamer	yes	22:22
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, are you in the middle of a release?	22:48
@Haarg	yes	22:48
+perlDreamer	I'm glad I asked :)	22:48
@Haarg	and i'll be branching after that	22:48
+perlDreamer	it's just a fix for extra debug output in a test	22:49
+perlDreamer	it'll wait	22:49
CIA-46	WebGUI: graham * r9707 /releases/WebGUI_7.6.14-stable: Release 7.6.14-stable	23:06
CIA-46	WebGUI: graham * r9708 /branch/WebGUI_7.6: Create branch WebGUI_7.6	23:06
+perlDreamer	boy, it was nice just having one branch for a while...	23:10
@preaction	heh, i never have less than 7 different webguis on my system, and with git i suspect i'll be branching and merging a lot more	23:11
@preaction	one? what is this number you speak of?	23:12
+MrHairgrease	1	23:12
+MrHairgrease	there, hope that helps	23:12
+perlDreamer	one	23:13
+perlDreamer	uno	23:13
+perlDreamer	einz	23:13
+perlDreamer	that which is singular in nature, yet having a quantity along the real axis	23:13
+perlDreamer	number of noses currently on your face	23:13
+MrHairgrease	pd: it's eins	23:15
+perlDreamer	it's just my Schwabish accent. Sorry, MrHairgrease.	23:15
+MrHairgrease	I'm not offended	23:15
+MrHairgrease	My German sucks anyway	23:16
+MrHairgrease	=)	23:16
SDuensin	I get this a lot, should I worry? WebGUI::Operation::Cron::www_runCronJob[295] - Could not create workflow instance for workflowId 'pbworkflow000000000007': It is a singleton workflow and is still running from the last invocation.	23:16
+perlDreamer	SDuensin, you should find out that that workflow is, and why it's running for so long	23:16
+perlDreamer	it's likely an email related workflow, and if it can't keep up, you can start to develop a backlog	23:17
+perlDreamer	call RotoRooter	23:17
SDuensin	It is, but I don't think I'm sending that much.	23:17
@Haarg	yes, that is the mail queue workflow	23:17
SDuensin	mailq says it's empty.	23:17
SDuensin	Ran across that while trying to figure out why my calendar isn't pulling in a feed.	23:19
SDuensin	can you make a tmpl_loop run backwards?	23:41
+perlDreamer	no	23:45
+perlDreamer	not in HTML::Template at least	23:45
SDuensin	Ok. I'm not entirely sure what this lady is wanting from me anyway. :-)	23:45
+perlDreamer	what is she trying to do?	23:45
SDuensin	Beats me. I've got an online store for her and she wants everything "reversed".	23:46
SDuensin	I'm assuming she means the order the products are displayed.	23:46
SDuensin	I flipped 'em in the asset manager.	23:46
+perlDreamer	much easier	23:47
+perlDreamer	you can do that with variants, too, if you have the variant editing controls displayed	23:47
SDuensin	Yea, but she said "reverse it", so I did that. Now she says "reverse it". Um. Ok.	23:47
SDuensin	Dude, don't even get me going on the variants again. :-P	23:48
+perlDreamer	lineage is not versioned, so that shouldn't be a problem	23:48
--- Day changed Wed Mar 04 2009
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SynQ	hi there :)	00:39
+perlDreamer	he's back!	00:41
+perlDreamer	ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh	00:41
* preaction hides		00:42
SynQ	I'm just a boy whose intentions are good, o god please don't let me be misunderstood	00:45
* SynQ turns away from those unfriendly peoply who make him feel like he is not wanted here		00:46
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@preaction	NO WAIT COME BACK I LOVE YOUUUUU	00:46
@preaction	sigh... i'm gonna miss him	00:46
+perlDreamer	don't feel too bad, he didn't really leave	00:51
deafferret	you misunderstood	00:51
deafferret	right after he told you not to	00:51
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@preaction	yay! the prodigal sun returns	00:52
SynQ	let's try that again	00:52
SynQ	hi there :)	00:52
SynQ	I have had a very hard day	00:52
SynQ	and my toes are very easily tred upon right now	00:53
@preaction	we love you, really	00:53
SynQ	but that is not your fault actually	00:53
@preaction	we tease because we care	00:53
SynQ	I know	00:53
@preaction	i know, you're just easy to love	00:53
@preaction	i try to fight it, but i can't help myself	00:53
@preaction	WHY OH WHY CAN'T I QUIT YOU	00:53
SynQ	hehe	00:54
SynQ	today is a day where everything goes wrong	00:54
@preaction	heh, and that's different from every other day.. how?	00:55
SynQ	in that on other days I still move forward in one way or another	00:55
@preaction	ah, yeah i can see that being an issue	00:55
SynQ	my car broke down one day before being scheduled for maintenance at the garage	00:56
* perlDreamer is sorry, SynQ. It was a poor joke at your expense.		00:56
SynQ	perlDreamer: it's ok	00:56
@preaction	it's all your fault you insensitive ass	00:56
+perlDreamer	it's true	00:56
SynQ	I love you both	00:56
+perlDreamer	And I just went and pissed off ehab	00:56
SynQ	to make up for it?	00:56
@preaction	omg! stop! i can't fix everything!	00:56
SynQ	I know	00:57
SynQ	but your last post on working at home was really helpfull to me	00:57
@preaction	heh, but your car had it in for you, seriously ;)	00:57
@preaction	i told it not to, but it felt like playing a joke	00:57
SynQ	it was just that small tip over the border I needed to set some lines in our household	00:57
SynQ	if I want to work I'm working	00:57
SynQ	like right now	00:58
SynQ	:P	00:58
SynQ	I still get 30 more minutes to work	00:58
@preaction	yeah, when i was working in my living room with my gf living here, i wouldn't get any work done until she left	00:58
SynQ	but you got a lot of action and that is worth someting ;)	00:59
@preaction	well, not so much action, which is why i will now amend my comment by saying "ex-gf"	00:59
SynQ	ah	00:59
@preaction	can't win them all	00:59
@preaction	can't even win most of them	00:59
@preaction	but the ones you do win make up for everything	01:00
SynQ	at least I have I very sweet and loving wife and a adorable baby	01:00
+perlDreamer	she isn't reading over your shoulder, is she?	01:00
@preaction	mmm raison d'etre	01:00
+perlDreamer	my wife does that all the time	01:00
SynQ	perlDreamer: she is feeding Emma	01:00
SynQ	so no	01:00
@preaction	ha, she doesn't have to, that's why SynQ is better than us!	01:00
SynQ	she isn't	01:01
@preaction	he doesn't have that mixed awe/fear of his wife, they are equal partners in this journey of life!	01:01
@preaction	it's all awe, baby!	01:01
@preaction	awe-some!	01:01
SynQ	she knows I am an open book and always direct so no need to read over my shoulder indeed	01:01
@preaction	okay, maybe laid it on a bittle thick there	01:01
@preaction	ooh, i made a new word	01:01
@preaction	where's the coffee?	01:01
SynQ	preaction: well actually	01:01
SynQ	that sums it up pretty well	01:02
@preaction	wait, it's after 5p. no more caffiene for me	01:02
SynQ	where can I order a sixpack of spotted cow?	01:02
@preaction	uhh... durno	01:03
SynQ	New Glarus beer is available only in Wisconsin.	01:03
@preaction	we don't have many online grocery stores around here. peepod died pretty quick	01:03
SynQ	says: http://www.newglarusbrewing.com/Distribution.cfm	01:03
SynQ	that sucks	01:03
@preaction	yeah, that too	01:03
@preaction	that does suck, more people need the awesomeness that is new glarus beers	01:03
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@preaction	when i'm not getting new glarus, or stuff from the Great Dane (a nice oatmeal stout), i settle for guinness stout	01:04
@preaction	Great Dane is even less distributed than New Glarus	01:04
SynQ	what county is madison in?	01:04
@preaction	Dane county, WI	01:05
SynQ	ah nice	01:05
SynQ	preaction: do you know hopgoblin?	01:06
@preaction	nope	01:06
SynQ	Hobgoblin even	01:07
SynQ	http://www.wychwood.co.uk/	01:07
SynQ	they have got paddy'sTout	01:08
SynQ	that is nice too	01:08
SynQ	very hoppy	01:09
@preaction	sounds nice	01:09
SynQ	I'm starting to get thirsty	01:10
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CIA-46	WebGUI: graham * r9709 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (4 files in 4 dirs): preparing for 7.6.15 dev	01:57
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9710 /branch/WebGUI_Story/lib/WebGUI/Asset/ (Wobject/StoryArchive.pm Story.pm): Handle the case when purging a story, and there's no storage location.	01:57
+perlDreamer	are new template variables supposed to be camel case, or underscored?	02:23
@preaction	i tend to use underscore for categories	02:25
@preaction	so "url_view" "user_firstName" "exif_cameraType"	02:25
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+perlDreamer	thanks, preaction.	02:30
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9711 /branch/WebGUI_Story/t/Asset/Wobject/StoryArchive.t: Tests for StoryArchive view variables.	02:34
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9712 /branch/WebGUI_Story/lib/WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Template help and i18n for the view template.	02:34
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@preaction	i think we need to have another look at the user profile API	03:12
@preaction	list-type fields, $user->profileField('alist') returns the value, but sometimes i will want the label	03:12
+perlDreamer	isn't that usually i18n'ed?	03:13
@preaction	if it is, it's not editable by the admin	03:13
@preaction	they can't add new options without me	03:13
@preaction	which i think defeats the purpose	03:13
+perlDreamer	just what is it that you're trying to do?	03:14
@preaction	so either i can't program against a list type, or they can't edit the list type	03:14
* perlDreamer puts on his suspicious old man developer hat		03:14
@preaction	there's a list type, i need to display the value in a template	03:14
@preaction	er.. i mean the label	03:14
@preaction	but that means i have to instantiate the profile field and parse the options, a suboptimal solution	03:14
+perlDreamer	I think you'll have to do that in any case	03:14
@preaction	especially since that means i am essentially tying myself to that profile field type	03:15
+perlDreamer	it only stores the value	03:15
@preaction	if it later becomes a text type, my code breaks	03:15
+perlDreamer	that is true	03:17
+perlDreamer	but how often is "sometimes"?	03:18
@preaction	anytime i am displaying the value to the end-user	03:19
@preaction	however, when searching, i have to use the internal value	03:19
@preaction	... even more ugliness	03:19
@preaction	oh, well, i suppose if they're both the same it doesn't matter	03:19
@preaction	and if they're not there has to be a damned good reason for it	03:19
+perlDreamer	in the profile itself, this isn't a problem, since it has access to the possibleValues hash for the list type	03:20
+perlDreamer	so it's only outside of it that's a problem	03:20
+perlDreamer	like the User macro	03:20
@preaction	and it's only a problem if the admin assigns a key:value pair, instead of just value\nvalue\n	03:20
+perlDreamer	does that work? I thought all list types were key/value pairs.	03:21
@preaction	there are a few different ways of configuring form controls, which i hope to consolidate sometime soon. the most common way is the one the DataForm uses	03:22
@preaction	which allow for values, one per line. or key\|value one per line	03:22
+perlDreamer	it's time for me to take a break	03:23
+perlDreamer	I keep typing worfklow	03:24
@preaction	heh, yeah, sounds like	03:24
+perlDreamer	that's worse than tempalte	03:24
@preaction	though i should mention i always type worlfkow	03:24
+perlDreamer	bbl	03:24
* perlDreamer is secretly hoping he's channeling Roddenbery		03:24
+perlDreamer	worf klow must be klingon	03:25
SDuensin	So would I be insane to allow every user the ability to create a page on my site?	03:30
@preaction	nope	03:33
SDuensin	Muhahaha.	03:33
@preaction	for what purpose?	03:35
SDuensin	Give everyone in town a home page on the town's web site.	03:36
@preaction	ah, nice	03:37
SDuensin	Still trying to figure out where my calendar feed went.	03:38
@preaction	you could modify the demo system to give everyone their own site	03:38
SDuensin	Does it expect to read external calendars in iCal format?	03:38
SDuensin	No, they want their own site, they get to BUY it. :-)	03:38
@preaction	iCalendar format, yes	03:38
SDuensin	But yes, I'm hacking things up to automate that as well.	03:38
SDuensin	Ok, that's why my feed isn't working.	03:38
SDuensin	Man, every time I import a calendar feed, I get duplicates. :-(	04:07
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elnino	HI! I'm now installing wre on an ubunto system.. new experience... anyway, it's already have perl on it.. So, if I want to install wre, do I uninstall the existing perl first? or does wre install in the "normal" directorys and will overwrite the existing install?	04:08
elnino	what what version of perl is in the latest wre version?	04:08
SDuensin	I imported the US Holidays calendar from Google. I have things like St. Patrick's Day on both the 17th (correct) and the 18th (not).	04:08
SDuensin	Looks like 5.10.0, elnino	04:09
@preaction	elnino: the WRE installs in its own directory. when you're using it, you make sure to ". /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment.sh" (there is a space between . and /), so that you are using the correct Perl	04:09
SDuensin	wait.	04:09
SDuensin	5.8.8	04:10
SDuensin	preaction - Ever see that calendar issue before?	04:10
@preaction	yes, i suspect time-zone issues	04:10
SDuensin	:-(	04:11
@preaction	is it exactly 5 hours off each way?	04:11
* SDuensin is CST.		04:11
SDuensin	Checking.	04:11
@preaction	CST would be 6 hours then	04:11
SDuensin	Not sure. For example, St. Pat's says: SCHEDULED	04:12
SDuensin	Tuesday, March 17 ? Wednesday, March 18	04:12
SDuensin	http://new.smithton.net/calendar/events?type=list	04:13
@preaction	look at the details for the event in the webgui calendar	04:13
SDuensin	That's where I got the text I pasted. There are no times.	04:13
@preaction	huh, that's weird	04:14
SDuensin	http://new.smithton.net/calendar/events/st6.-patricks-d	04:14
SDuensin	Leave it to me to find "weird".	04:14
@preaction	i'd post it as a bug and attach the icalendar feed you got the event from	04:14
@preaction	peraps the parser is choking again	04:14
SDuensin	ok - can do	04:14
SDuensin	Thanks.	04:14
SDuensin	7.6.14? When'd that sneak out!?	04:14
@preaction	today	04:14
SDuensin	Here I was going to load 13 and got a nice surprise. :-)	04:15
+perlDreamer	sorry, no more bugs	04:18
+perlDreamer	all bugs in the core have been fixed	04:18
elnino	so. do I need to remive the existing perl before installing wre? or am I ok with both instances?	04:18
+perlDreamer	to get new bugs, we need new code	04:18
+perlDreamer	calendar is old cod	04:18
elnino	sounds like Ican have both.	04:18
+perlDreamer	no code	04:18
@preaction	elnino: you're okay with both. the . /... thing does the switch for you	04:18
+perlDreamer	no bugs in it	04:18
@preaction	that's how we could fix the calendar!	04:19
SDuensin	:-P	04:19
+perlDreamer	take all the code out of it? yup, that would work	04:19
@preaction	no code == no bugs!	04:19
@preaction	then i can keep my hair!	04:20
* preaction pets his hair lovingly		04:20
+perlDreamer	what does your hair have to do with calendar bugs?	04:20
@preaction	they're making me lose my hair!	04:20
elnino	thatnks preaction and SDuensin for your help.	04:20
+perlDreamer	well, if the calendar is making you lose hair, what is the unmentionalble asset doing to you?	04:21
SDuensin	Anytime, elnino - WebGUI is DA BOMB!	04:21
+perlDreamer	we do not use its name...	04:21
@preaction	THAT one is working fine, because the person who wrote it was smart	04:21
SDuensin	Bug filed.	04:22
@preaction	or do you mean that OTHER asset	04:22
+perlDreamer	won't say it	04:22
@preaction	there's only one asset that is the bane of my existence, and that is the Calendar	04:24
@preaction	all other assets are cool with me	04:24
+perlDreamer	DTSTART=;VALUE=DATE:20090222\nDTEND;VALUE=DATE:20090223	04:24
+perlDreamer	that's why they're two days long	04:24
@preaction	the only problem is there's some sort of comraderie between assets, and they won't gangstomp the calendar for me	04:24
+perlDreamer	because they SAY they're 2 days long	04:25
SDuensin	They do? That's F'ed up!	04:25
@preaction	YEAH! SCORE 1 FOR NOT MY FAULT!	04:25
SDuensin	hehehe	04:25
+perlDreamer	Google attempts to take over the world by reworking specs	04:25
* preaction does not mention the score for "TOTALLY MY FAULT"		04:25
+perlDreamer	sounds vaguely familiar..	04:25
+perlDreamer	perlbot: karma preaction	04:25
perlbot	Karma for preaction: 32	04:25
SDuensin	Ok, so if I yank the feed now, do I have to manually remove each entry from my calendar?	04:26
@preaction	uh... yes?	04:26
@preaction	i don't remember really	04:26
SDuensin	That's not the right answer!	04:26
+perlDreamer	hold his feet to the fire, SDuensin!	04:28
SDuensin	But... But... How can Google be WRONG?!	04:28
+perlDreamer	you know, in that wordpress/joomla article, WebGUI compares pretty well to wordpress in number of clicks	04:33
SDuensin	Number of clicks?	04:33
+perlDreamer	The author compares usability to the number of clicks it takes to do something	04:34
+perlDreamer	like, add a blog	04:34
+perlDreamer	add an article, page	04:35
+perlDreamer	etc	04:35
+perlDreamer	http://www.playingwithwire.com/2009/03/open-source-and-usability-joomla-vs-wordpress/	04:35
+perlDreamer	this is where rizen and tavisto need to step quickly in and compare WebGUI to Wordpress, Joomla and Drupal	04:35
@preaction	http://blog.tmcnet.com/telecom-crm/2009/01/15/sagecrm-v62-wheaton-college-and-webgui-alterian-and-jaguar-accenture-r.asp <- anyone see this? second section	04:36
SDuensin	I've used all three. My empire runs on WebGUI. My last non-GUI site is going bye-bye this week.	04:37
SDuensin	Excellent! Go Wheaton!	04:38
+perlDreamer	nice!	04:39
+perlDreamer	more linkage	04:39
@preaction	uhoh, on their library site they've got a "New! Try our new catalog interface", which isn't WebGUI	04:39
@preaction	http://library.wheaton.edu/	04:39
SDuensin	Kick their ass.	04:40
@preaction	and it looks like they could use some development guides	04:40
@preaction	nono, though perhaps we should enter a beneficial business relationship with them	04:40
@preaction	tavisto!	04:40
@preaction	damn him.. never around when i need him	04:40
@preaction	marketing jocks are all the same	04:40
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+perlDreamer	maybe you have to say his name 3 times, like Beetlejuice?	04:41
+perlDreamer	preaction, that's also 7.0.8	04:41
@preaction	yeah, i saw that too	04:41
+perlDreamer	old 7x code	04:42
+perlDreamer	upgrades would do them a world of good	04:42
@preaction	which is why it's vitally important that we tell them, if they're migrating away from webgui, to upgrade before they finalize that decision	04:42
@preaction	7.0 is what, 3 years old now?	04:42
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+perlDreamer	if it's user facing, wouldn't it be finalized?	04:42
@preaction	it's under development, we still have a chance! we break in and steal the SOURCE	04:43
@preaction	because there's no chance they have a robust backup procedure or anything	04:43
+perlDreamer	tavisto	04:44
+perlDreamer	tavisto	04:44
+perlDreamer	tavisto	04:44
@preaction	he cannot help us	04:45
+perlDreamer	he can tomorrow	04:46
@preaction	we must h4x0r teh g1b53n	04:46
+perlDreamer	stop daydreaming about Angelina Jolie	04:46
@preaction	her lips are horrific	04:46
@preaction	if only she didn't have those lips...	04:47
@preaction	she's close, but no cigar	04:47
+perlDreamer	I don't know...	04:48
+perlDreamer	anybody that can curve a bullet around a room like that	04:48
* perlDreamer switches to Daddy mode.		04:49
+perlDreamer	okay, i procrastinated	04:52
+perlDreamer	the new interface is WebGUI, too	04:52
@preaction	really?	04:52
+perlDreamer	yeah	04:52
@preaction	i checked the source and it didn't have the generator tag	04:52
+perlDreamer	that's what the librarian says	04:53
+perlDreamer	they have a realtime meebo chat interface :)	04:53
+perlDreamer	either that, or this librarian doesn't know	04:53
* SDuensin uses Meebo on some WG sites.		04:53
@preaction	the "VuFind discovery interface" thing isn't WG	04:54
+perlDreamer	it sure doesn't look like it	04:54
@preaction	eh, i see how it is though, there are about 50 different systems to integrate	04:54
@preaction	colleges outrank gov't agencies in complexity	04:55
+perlDreamer	they have fewer funds	04:55
* perlDreamer really goes into daddy mode now :)		04:55
@preaction	http://www.gspm.org/Julie+Germany/130_Why-the-State-Department-Gets-It <- a nice blurb about one of our clients	04:56
@preaction	okay, so if when creating a new user, their profile fields don't get any privacy values to start with, is that a bug?	05:00
+perlDreamer	yes	05:03
+perlDreamer	ask khenn	05:03
@preaction	yeah, sent him an e-mail	05:03
+perlDreamer	sounds like it needs a test written for that	05:03
@khenn	yes that's a bug	05:08
@preaction	submitting a bug	05:09
SDuensin	How do I run spectre in debug so I can watch it?	05:11
@khenn	cd /data/WebGUI/sbin	05:12
@khenn	perl spectre.pl --debug I think	05:12
@preaction	--run --debug	05:12
SDuensin	ko	05:13
SDuensin	Got a workflow going nuts here.	05:13
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knowmad	patspam: nice write-up in PBWG	05:18
knowmad	i never knew about that "easter egg" hidden in the gooey dolls	05:18
+patspam	heh thanks william	05:19
SDuensin	Man, something is MAD. Apache over-runs the memory limit about every 3 seconds.	05:19
knowmad	i'll have to try it when i get to work tomorrow and see if it works!	05:19
SDuensin	EAster egg?	05:19
knowmad	read Pat's writeup -- http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/campaigns/people/patrick-donelan	05:19
@preaction	SDuensin: perhaps the memory limit is too small?	05:19
SDuensin	Beats me. Whatever shipped with it, I think.	05:19
SDuensin	$Apache2::SizeLimit::MAX_PROCESS_SIZE = 100000;	05:20
SDuensin	$Apache2::SizeLimit::MAX_UNSHARED_SIZE = 75000;	05:20
* knowmad is signing off		05:23
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@preaction	SDuensin: yeah, up those both to 110000	05:24
SDuensin	ok	05:24
@preaction	it's Apache2::SizeLimit killing processes, right?	05:24
SDuensin	yea	05:25
@preaction	yeah, then that's the way to fix that	05:25
@preaction	god... why is my drowsiness going away now...	05:25
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SDuensin	When do user workflows run? At logon? Creation?	05:29
@preaction	creation or update, depends on which trigger you use	05:30
@preaction	they are set in the Settings panel	05:30
SDuensin	Looking.	05:31
* SDuensin is installing http://www.webgui.org/bazaar/workflow-activity-to-create-personal-user-areas-when-user-is-created		05:31
SDuensin	AH! The docs missed that part.	05:32
SDuensin	Or I missed that part. Thanks again.	05:32
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CIA-46	WebGUI: doug * r9713 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/User.pm): fixed #9852: Users can accept private messages from Visitor, but Visitor cannot send messages	05:39
+perlDreamer	where's the test for that?	05:40
@preaction	BITE ME	05:40
@preaction	i mean, i left it in my other pants	05:40
+perlDreamer	and don't forget to backport it	05:40
@preaction	backport?	05:40
@preaction	GOD	05:40
+perlDreamer	yes	05:40
+perlDreamer	back to 7.6	05:40
+perlDreamer	from 7.7	05:40
@preaction	i was all happy like "This will be easy" and you come and STOMP ON MY DREAMS	05:41
+perlDreamer	actually, I think he did some backporting	05:41
+perlDreamer	he forked Adam and made Eve	05:41
+perlDreamer	and it still doesn't say where all those wives came from	05:41
+patspam	http://www.sdhconsulting.com.au/tmp/passive-analytics-icons1.jpg	05:41
+patspam	preferences?	05:41
+perlDreamer	middle one	05:42
@preaction	bar graph	05:42
@preaction	line graph isn't as obvious "THIS IS A GRAPH"	05:42
@preaction	bar graph is blunt, like a bar	05:42
+perlDreamer	it's not a graph, it's a path through a website	05:42
+perlDreamer	passively analyzing where the user has gone	05:42
@preaction	oh,	05:42
+perlDreamer	and, may I say, Wow does Andy make nice graphics.	05:42
@preaction	indeed	05:43
+perlDreamer	why isn't he in IRC?	05:43
@preaction	perhaps make the user guy bigger?	05:43
@preaction	and the line graph in front of the user	05:43
+patspam	I'll see if i can get him in here	05:43
+perlDreamer	back to showering kids, be back in 15	05:43
+patspam	what irc client do you OSX folks use?	05:44
@preaction	some use colloquy, but I use Xchat Aqua	05:44
SDuensin	XCHAT!	05:45
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+patspam	heh thanks, I think he'll be here shortly	05:48
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+perlDreamer	I'm back	06:01
+perlDreamer	andyiomoon, your graphics are awesome!	06:02
elnino	YEA!	06:02
andyiomoon	hehheh - why thank you	06:02
andyiomoon	as I was telling Pat - I haven't used IRC in years!	06:03
* patspam chalks up another australian in the channel.. grand total of 3		06:03
+perlDreamer	that means you just passed up the Dutch	06:03
andyiomoon	who is the third?	06:03
+perlDreamer	and that's an accomplishment	06:03
+perlDreamer	Radix	06:03
+patspam	he's in Perth	06:03
elnino	no sorry, I don't know andyiomoon. YEA that perlDreamer is back. But I'll say "yea" for andyiomoon's graphics too.	06:03
andyiomoon	or if I am the third who is the second	06:03
andyiomoon	ah cool	06:03
+patspam	elnino: andy is the "S" in SDH	06:04
elnino	whos SDH? Oh good grief.. maybe I should read some history before "jumping in" (Hi patspam)	06:05
+perlDreamer	elnino, have you kept up with the latest PBWG interview on webgui.org?	06:05
+patspam	perlDreamer and preaction: refresh http://www.sdhconsulting.com.au/tmp/passive-analytics-icons1.jpg for the new icon	06:05
elnino	not at all.	06:05
+perlDreamer	the latest one is a certain well known spamproof australian	06:05
@preaction	i likes!	06:05
@preaction	when it gets down to teh very bottom, it's still recognizable	06:05
+perlDreamer	very spritely	06:05
andyiomoon	yep - took out the little man for the 16x16 - too muddy otherwise	06:06
elnino	I did see patspam picture, is that what you're refering to?	06:06
+perlDreamer	that's the one	06:06
elnino	yes, that was a nice photo. =)	06:06
andyiomoon	I still think the webgui doll should have been in focus and you all blurry pat	06:07
+perlDreamer	SDH is the group that patspam, andyiomoon and H work for.	06:07
+perlDreamer	We haven't met H yet, but based on the other 2/3's it bodes very well	06:07
andyiomoon	more mystery that way :)	06:07
andyiomoon	ahh perlDreamer you ol' silver tongue	06:07
+patspam	perlDreamer: spamproof? dang did you hunt down my iconBuffet profile? or is that just a coincidence	06:08
+perlDreamer	it's the psychic interface	06:08
+perlDreamer	preaction: I'll backport and write the test.	06:09
@preaction	already backported	06:10
@preaction	test not writ though	06:10
+perlDreamer	I thought you fixed the profile bug	06:11
@preaction	yeah, visitors shouldn't see the "send message" links, caused by "acceptsPrivateMessage" being true	06:12
+patspam	so depressing that the only way to get my printer to work reliably is to talk to it from inside a windows vm	06:15
+perlDreamer	preaction: /me is confused	06:16
+perlDreamer	there are no global privacy field settings	06:16
+perlDreamer	at the profile field level	06:16
+perlDreamer	so isn't having them all private correct?	06:17
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CIA-46	WebGUI: doug * r9714 /WebGUI/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt: fixeding my borkes to the changelog	06:20
CIA-46	WebGUI: doug * r9715 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/User.pm): backported 9713	06:20
+perlDreamer	ProfileField doesn't even know about wg_privacysettings, aside from reserving it as a field name	06:22
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elnino	oh.. I'm installing a new instance of wre and I'm missing something. I haven't done this before, only upgrades..	07:19
elnino	I'm following http://www.plainblack.com/community-wiki/wre-installation.	07:19
elnino	I untared and I'm attempting to run ./wreconsole.pl and then it talks about setting up a site. Is it not going to ask me to downoad webgui? I think I naswered my question.. =)	07:20
elnino	hmm. after reading this I guess I'm wrong. my port 60834 seems not to be responding/	07:24
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elnino	how do I get rid of old version of mp3 files that my user uploaded? is that taken care of the "delete old asset revisions" workflow?	07:39
elnino	I see this: http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/clean-temp-storage but, I believe there to be missing information on this wiki.	07:44
@preaction	elnino: delete old asset revisions is what takes care of that, but you can delete revisions manually if you want	07:44
elnino	ok.. that workflow sounded like it only dealt with db entries.	07:45
elnino	do you use ubunto by any chance?	07:45
@preaction	no, os x	07:45
elnino	ok.	07:46
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elnino	port 60834 seems to be blocked, but I hav eno proof, nor know how to determine this.. Anyone there that can tell me what to look at on a ubunto system?	08:12
elnino	patspam. fyi. on your website, your link to canto cumulus is broken.	08:14
elnino	do you guys provide webgui hosting?	08:14
+patspam	elnino: heh we have the most awesome website ever, single page, static html	08:39
+patspam	and totally out of date	08:39
+patspam	we don't host professionally, we outsource that to folks like procolix	08:40
elnino	hi. patspam.. shouldn't you be using umm. webgui? =)	08:46
+patspam	static html is the future, down with wg!	08:47
elnino	ok then. =) I went to procolix.. who here manages that... I was looking for prices.	08:48
+patspam	speak to Koen, aka SynQ	08:49
+patspam	he should be waking up in an hour or 2 :)	08:50
+patspam	meanwhile, I'm off, night all!	08:50
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elnino	preaction, do you know Tiffany (SEO gal) and what is her website?	09:05
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@preaction	elnino: elitedesignsltd.com	09:22
elnino	oh yes. Thank you.	09:22
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topsub	Is there a way in webgui i can import like 191 images with a zip file or something?	16:02
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+MrHairgrease	topsub: I don't think so	16:05
+MrHairgrease	but you can always use the fileImport script in sbin of course	16:05
topsub	Ah i might have to look at that	16:05
+MrHairgrease	provided you have server access that is	16:05
topsub	i have 191 images to import	16:05
+MrHairgrease	I always use fileImport for stuff like that	16:06
topsub	cool i will give that a try	16:06
+bartjol	tobsub, do you want to put them in a Gallery?	16:17
topsub	bartjol, No, i just need them in an images folder	16:18
+bartjol	I heard that has a zip import function?	16:19
+bartjol	then I have to agree with Martin	16:19
topsub	this is for a javascript captcha and these are the supporting images	16:19
+bartjol	ah	16:19
+bartjol	cool	16:19
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elnino	MrHairgrease.. rumer has it that you are working on http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/9781is this true?	17:31
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+MrHairgrease	I am not working on a PayPal plugin	17:32
+MrHairgrease	but I heard there is one in the making	17:33
+MrHairgrease	I'm not in on the details though	17:33
elnino	hmm. are you working on any payment plugin?	17:33
+MrHairgrease	Not currently, but I am working on other commerce stuff	17:33
* elnino is sad		17:33
+MrHairgrease	Why?	17:34
SDuensin	Greetings!	17:34
elnino	cause you're not working on one.	17:34
+MrHairgrease	7.7 is far away anyway	17:34
SDuensin	Isn't there a PayPal driver in the Bizarre?	17:34
elnino	I know.. That's why I was exceited to hear that you were working on one. I must have misundertood, or forgot who they said.	17:34
elnino	I'll look again SDuensin	17:34
+MrHairgrease	I think Joeri is working on one	17:35
+MrHairgrease	but as i said, I'm not in on the details	17:35
elnino	hey. . there it is! It's New!	17:35
+MrHairgrease	and I know for a fact that he's very busy	17:35
SDuensin	:-)	17:35
elnino	was it you SDuensin?	17:35
SDuensin	No, I just happened to see it last night.	17:36
elnino	no author listed. I'm trying it!!!	17:36
elnino	Thanks! guys, you made my day.	17:40
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SDuensin	Let us know how it goes. (Especially me!)	17:40
+MrHairgrease	yeah, feedback in this direction is apprciated as well	17:41
elnino	It'll be slow.. Got several projects going, but I know my customer wants this desparately. I'll post comments on the bazzar, or is it more appropriate here?	17:41
SDuensin	Either/both. I'll find it next time I browse it. But coming here to chat is fun. :-)	17:42
elnino	I just found out you can subscribe to it (far right column) then you'll be notified.	17:43
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dionak	has anyone tested the paypal plugin yet?	17:59
dionak	it will be a very useful addition to webgui	17:59
+bartjol	elnino is trying I believe	18:00
@tavisto	who created a paypal plugin?	18:01
dionak	cool...looking forward to hearing about it. the rfe's were confusing	18:01
@tavisto	I knew this was coming but didn't know it was already in testing	18:02
+bartjol	tavisto: nothing will be published until you've made a cartoon	18:02
@tavisto	haha	18:02
+bartjol	but the publisger of the plugin is unknown	18:02
@tavisto	don't worry, "the adventures of BartJol: The Big Dutch Girlyman" will soon be at newstands near you	18:03
+bartjol	ah	18:03
dionak	it's odd that the username of the plugin poster isn't displayed in the Bazaar.	18:04
+bartjol	it is	18:04
+bartjol	the mysterious anionymous contributer... abbreviated that's mac, so I guess it's a mac user	18:05
dionak	bartjol must work nights as a comedian..	18:06
elnino	I have to do a webgui upgrade before I can try this	18:06
SDuensin	Do it, man! We wait with baited breath!	18:09
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+perlDreamer	bopbop, I have the solution!	18:13
+perlDreamer	SeasonShot is a green bullet alternative	18:13
+perlDreamer	http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/science/03/04/green.bullets/index.html	18:14
@bopbop	ah- yes it is	18:14
+perlDreamer	Environmentally friendly and biodegradable	18:14
+perlDreamer	Being tasty is just a side benefit	18:14
@bopbop	lol- I just read that this am	18:14
@bopbop	and tasty	18:14
+perlDreamer	has the FDA approved it yet?	18:14
@bopbop	dunno	18:14
@bopbop	don't think so	18:14
@bopbop	maybe this will do it	18:14
+perlDreamer	Hope so.	18:15
@bopbop	:)	18:15
+perlDreamer	Okay, on to other business	18:15
+perlDreamer	tavisto!	18:15
+perlDreamer	Has preaction told you about Wheaton College's library site yet?	18:15
@tavisto	perlDreamer, he has not told me a thing	18:23
+perlDreamer	well, then	18:23
+perlDreamer	we found a new WebGUI site	18:23
@tavisto	do tell!	18:23
@tavisto	here's another new one www.thebetterfish.com	18:23
@tavisto	pretty sharp	18:23
+perlDreamer	http://blog.tmcnet.com/telecom-crm/2009/01/15/sagecrm-v62-wheaton-college-and-webgui-alterian-and-jaguar-accenture-r.asp	18:24
+perlDreamer	and if that isn't enough	18:25
+perlDreamer	there was a Slashdot article yesterday comparing usability in WordPress and Joomla	18:25
+perlDreamer	http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/qibpbk7lXXE/article.pl	18:26
+perlDreamer	the author of the article basically did label and # of clicks to get a job done	18:26
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+perlDreamer	Of course, Slashdot over-hyped it. The Joomla people didn't get upset about it	18:27
+perlDreamer	but, it would be interesting to see comparisons of WebGUI against other CMS systems.	18:27
+perlDreamer	could be good marketing, maybe the source for another story	18:27
+perlDreamer	at the least, it would let us know things to fix in WebGUI for ease and speed of use	18:32
+bartjol	yeah	18:32
+bartjol	some feedback from other people than WebGUI junkies should be good	18:32
+bartjol	maybe it's just addictive	18:33
+perlDreamer	f00li5h, did you get hired? Is that why you changed your nick?	18:35
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SDuensin	Have I mentioned in the last 10 minutes that I frickin' LOVE WebGUI?	18:40
deafferret	SDuensin: yes. At 10:40.	18:41
+perlDreamer	This would be a bad time to mention JSON in the db, then, yes? ;)	18:41
SDuensin	:-P	18:41
SDuensin	YES! It's EVIL!	18:41
+MrHairgrease	http://webgui.pastebin.com/m43f9b963	18:43
+MrHairgrease	I'm going crazy here	18:44
+MrHairgrease	the problem is this	18:44
+MrHairgrease	the pasted method does not return the full contents of the $json to the browser	18:44
+MrHairgrease	it limits it to 8193 bytes	18:45
+MrHairgrease	which is close to 8192	18:45
+MrHairgrease	/tmp/barf.txt has the whole json string though	18:45
+MrHairgrease	what could be limiting my output?	18:46
daviddelikat	what does the caller look like?	18:46
+MrHairgrease	eventually it's being called by WG::Content::Shop	18:46
+MrHairgrease	it's an addition to WG::Shop::Vendor	18:47
daviddelikat	so is it the web client that shows only ~8193 chars?	18:47
+MrHairgrease	yes	18:47
daviddelikat	lotta stuff in between there	18:47
daviddelikat	not likelyl to be in the perl code you posted.	18:47
daviddelikat	have you tried 'wget'?	18:48
+MrHairgrease	yup	18:48
+MrHairgrease	oh now it's 8348 bytes btw	18:48
@tavisto	perlDreamer	18:48
@tavisto	how is this a new site? Wheaton has been using WebGUI forever	18:49
daviddelikat	can you give me a URL?	18:49
* perlDreamer didn't know tavisto		18:49
@tavisto	http://www.plainblack.com/success/education/wheaton-college	18:50
@tavisto	bad perlDreamer! bad!	18:50
daviddelikat	MrHairgrease: a URL?	18:50
+MrHairgrease	i pmed you	18:51
+perlDreamer	the perl code is fine, MrHairgrease. I'd be looking at apache	18:51
@tavisto	I'm sorry I have to do this perlDreamer, but I'm going to replace that shiny "I know everything" button on your vest with a "I almost know everything" button.	18:51
+MrHairgrease	yeah i know	18:51
+MrHairgrease	but i don't know where to look	18:52
+MrHairgrease	everything else is fine	18:52
+perlDreamer	tavisto, maybe it could say: I only know code	18:52
+MrHairgrease	and most pages are prolly more that a lousy 8k	18:52
@tavisto	tavisto thinks perlDreamer makes a great 'walmart greeter' for WebGUI	18:52
* perlDreamer hopes that's a positive		18:53
@tavisto	hehe of course	18:53
@Haarg	probably would be good to verify that other pages are over 8k	18:53
@Haarg	you also might try outputting with session->output->print directly	18:54
@tavisto	perlDreamer, what I can't figure out is why they reused that story on their site in a different location.	18:56
@tavisto	This was the originally story on Jan 13, 2009: http://internetcommunications.tmcnet.com/topics/enterprise/articles/48555-wheaton-college-happy-with-webgui-library.htm	18:56
+perlDreamer	maybe they're just recycling content?	18:57
@tavisto	not sure if you know this, but all WebGUI press gets added to the "WebGUI in the news" section of webgui.org. (under promote) It has a collection of 7-8 stories right now. This is also an area where we can post news stories about WebGUI partners and resellers if their stories get picked up.	18:57
+perlDreamer	I should have checked that.	18:58
+perlDreamer	Is there a place for us to submit stories to be added to that list?	18:58
@tavisto	well this is a new story so I'm glad you showed me. It's factually incorrect at the end though	18:58
+MrHairgrease	oh crap	18:58
+MrHairgrease	wget does get the correct result	18:58
@tavisto	right now it's only setup for Plain Black to add them. (because it aggregates to the main news mailing list)	18:58
+MrHairgrease	it's just that my firefox doesn't for some reason	18:58
@Haarg	how are you testing it in firefox?	18:59
+MrHairgrease	forgot the escape the ? in the url	18:59
@tavisto	Good point though, I need to add an email address or data form to that page so people can submit news.	18:59
+MrHairgrease	just by going to the url	18:59
+MrHairgrease	wait	18:59
daviddelikat	MrHairgrease: how is your firewall involved here	18:59
daviddelikat	are you going out then back in?	18:59
+MrHairgrease	maybe it's the fancyass json colorizer plugin i installled	19:00
+MrHairgrease	hang on	19:00
+perlDreamer	tavisto, sounds like a good idea for the new site design. A Partners page with a dataform or something would be very handy	19:00
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@tavisto	perlDreamer, another thing that has been extremely useful is to setup Google Alerts for the keywords "webgui" and "plain black webgui". It's helped me find lots of obscure stories and blogs about WebGUI.	19:00
+perlDreamer	tavisto, did you notice the "whataboutwebgui" tag on that usability article?	19:00
@tavisto	like this blog that just recently compared Alfesco to Joomla to WebGUI. And WebGUI got some nice props	19:01
@tavisto	http://weis627.blogspot.com/2009/03/content-management-system-showcase.html	19:01
@tavisto	no I didn't, let me look	19:01
+MrHairgrease	yup	19:01
+MrHairgrease	it was the crapass json colorizer plugin	19:01
+MrHairgrease	it can prolly handle only 8k of json...	19:02
+MrHairgrease	thanks for the help!	19:02
@tavisto	perlDreamer, which article are you referring to	19:03
+perlDreamer	to the slashdot article itself.	19:03
@tavisto	I dont see anything about WebGUI	19:04
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SDuensin	Ok, I'm confused. I'm putting groups inside groups. When I place a group inside a group, it also adds "Admins" under that. Why does it do that?	19:07
+perlDreamer	SDuensin, it's a feature.	19:07
+perlDreamer	Admins are automatically members of all groups	19:07
SDuensin	Ah! Ok, so those are the groups that are under the group I'm adding.	19:07
SDuensin	I get it now! :-)	19:07
+perlDreamer	tavisto: http://imagebin.ca/view/KMAetx.html	19:08
+perlDreamer	not sure how to find those tags otherwise...	19:09
+perlDreamer	unless MrHairgrease was spoofing us	19:09
+bartjol	well, that's a clear link	19:10
+MrHairgrease	I also still have the original screen shot w/o all my artwork	19:15
@tavisto	that's really strange	19:15
@tavisto	in a good way of course	19:15
@tavisto	well the drupal and webgui tags are not there now when clicking on the individual story	19:17
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daviddelikat	how does one assign a template id for a new default template?	19:18
+perlDreamer	either creatively make one with 22 characters that is a valid GUID (see Session/Id for details)	19:19
+perlDreamer	or, have WebGUI do it for you, using the api	19:19
* perlDreamer heads to the other office		19:19
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@tavisto	well that's cool to see a webgui tag on slashdot. I'm just curious how it made it there	19:29
@preaction	the tagging thing allows other people to tag posts	19:37
@preaction	it's not there anymore, it got moderated off or something	19:38
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topsub	the fileimport worked perfect.. whew!! didn't want to import 191 images.. haha	19:46
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CIA-46	WebGUI: jt * r9716 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Survey.pm: labeling survey as beta	19:51
+perlDreamer	Haarg, I was able to fix my uploads permissions problems with a fixup script and --util	19:52
+perlDreamer	WGDev to the rescue!	19:52
@Haarg	cool	19:53
@Haarg	i was thinking about what you said about a wgd restart	19:53
@Haarg	but i haven't come up with a good way to handle it yet	19:54
@Haarg	i guess if it was limited to only restarts it would make sense	19:54
+perlDreamer	I think util is really the same thing, with the scripts stuck in the config file	19:54
+perlDreamer	oh, and there may be a problem with asset import/export and list types	19:56
@Haarg	the main thing is that restarting is something that may be useful elsewhere	19:56
@Haarg	there is	19:56
+perlDreamer	I'm seeing ARRAY (0x.....) as my template parser	19:56
@Haarg	yeah	19:57
@Haarg	i saw that, but haven't looked at it in detail yet	19:57
+perlDreamer	it just needs an array serializer similar to what the form types use, coming in and going out	19:58
@Haarg	well	19:58
@Haarg	i think it's a problem with the forms api really	19:59
@Haarg	at least partly	19:59
@Haarg	a select box can't have multiple values, so it shouldn't be returning lists	20:00
+perlDreamer	that is true	20:00
@Haarg	but for actual list values i'll probably need to do something	20:00
+perlDreamer	and the template parser is a select list	20:01
+perlDreamer	which it shouldn't be	20:01
+perlDreamer	since you can't have more than 1 parser	20:01
@Haarg	yeah	20:02
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+perlDreamer	should we fix that in 7.7?	20:04
topsub	I imported the 191 images on a local install of webgui. created a package and imported the package on another server.. i had to do this because i can ssh to that server. then when i click on the imported package i get a 404. Anyway to debug this without seeing the logs?	20:04
+perlDreamer	topsub, go to the Admin Console and turn on debug mode	20:04
+perlDreamer	restrict it to your IP if it's publicly available	20:04
+perlDreamer	it will give you a stack trace, query log, and the latest error	20:05
topsub	is that from settings.. don't think i ever used this debug mode before	20:05
+perlDreamer	yes, it's in settings	20:05
+perlDreamer	if you can't do ssh to the server, how do you do code installs?	20:06
topsub	well we had ssh but it has changed and the client dind't update us	20:07
topsub	so i am trying to do this work without having to ssh to the box	20:08
@Haarg	perlDreamer, it's a SelectList in the definition, but it's manually drawn using SelectBox	20:11
+perlDreamer	heh	20:11
+perlDreamer	that's right. It doesn't inherit getEditForm.	20:11
+perlDreamer	so changing it should be trivial and harmless	20:12
@Haarg	yes	20:12
+perlDreamer	and not cause problems in the future, either	20:12
@Haarg	wgd edit still needs adjustments for list types though	20:12
+perlDreamer	yes, but I think as a workaround I can change the YAML in the editor to be a scalar. that may work	20:12
@Haarg	it will	20:13
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hansw	hoi	20:18
+perlDreamer	hi	20:18
hansw	hmm, sorry, seem to start in Dutch again :-)	20:18
+perlDreamer	not a problem	20:19
hansw	Len around?	20:19
@preaction	Kranendonk? i dunno if he comes around here	20:19
hansw	just wanted to let him know we are porting his solaris machine to linux -)	20:19
hansw	yes, kranendonk, he used to visit this channel	20:20
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hansw	nice to there are more people in here	20:21
@preaction	indeed	20:21
SDuensin	I'm beginning to think the macro system was designed to anger me.	20:27
+perlDreamer	what's happening, SDuensin?	20:27
SDuensin	I basically need to provide links based on a user's group. Except the content either contains quotes which breaks the macro or the HTML editor mangles it...	20:28
SDuensin	So I was going to proxy in the content I need to display. Except the asset proxy macro can't be nested.	20:28
SDuensin	Argh!	20:28
+perlDreamer	how many groups do you have to work with?	20:30
SDuensin	Just one. I want to offer a link for a user to create their personal web space if they don't have one, or a link to that space if they do have one.	20:30
SDuensin	Trying to do it without writing another custom macro.	20:31
+perlDreamer	<a href="^GroupText(group,link1,link2);">^GroupText(group,label1,label2);</a>	20:31
SDuensin	OooO! Smart! Thanks!	20:31
+perlDreamer	that's why they pay me the big bucks	20:32
SDuensin	:-)	20:32
SDuensin	If this hack works, I'll be super happy.	20:33
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9717 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Template.pm: parser should be a selectbox, not a selectlist.	20:38
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9718 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Beginnings of an edit form for the Story.	20:38
SDuensin	RFE for 8: Less hacky macro system!	20:43
@preaction	yeah... i once thought as you did	20:43
@preaction	YOU DON'T KNOW THE POWER OF THE DARK SIDE	20:43
SDuensin	The dark side refuses to create a valid URL.	20:43
@preaction	yeah, the thing about that, the only really smart macro system is unbearably slow	20:44
+perlDreamer	paste it, SDuensin, my young WebGUI padawan	20:44
SDuensin	http://jaeger.pastebin.com/m74b64d97	20:44
SDuensin	I've tried it with and without quotes.	20:44
+perlDreamer	yeah, lose the quotes	20:45
+perlDreamer	they're not needed	20:45
+perlDreamer	then please paste the output as well	20:45
SDuensin	If I do that, it mangles the HTML. Lemme get a copy of that.	20:46
+perlDreamer	I don't think you want ^u; in there	20:46
+perlDreamer	I think you really want ^/;	20:46
SDuensin	But ^/; doesn't provide a complete URL.	20:46
+perlDreamer	it needs a hostname?	20:47
SDuensin	Needs, no. But I want it.	20:47
+perlDreamer	the browser will do the right thing without it	20:47
+perlDreamer	all, would I be a fool for making	20:48
+perlDreamer	^FormLabel(hoverhelp,namespace,label,namespace);	20:48
+perlDreamer	which would make an i18n'ed label for forms with hoverhelp?	20:48
SDuensin	Ok, here's what I'm trying now: http://jaeger.pastebin.com/d4cf91b01	20:49
+perlDreamer	and the output?	20:49
SDuensin	Ugly.	20:49
SDuensin	The link for not being in the group is: http://test/create);	20:50
SDuensin	When I return to the editor, it has this: http://jaeger.pastebin.com/d530fc808	20:52
SDuensin	Fun!	20:52
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elnino	hi.	20:53
SDuensin	Re	20:53
elnino	lot of people here now.	20:54
SDuensin	It's a popular place.	20:54
+perlDreamer	SDuensin: http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1236192657_534/home?op=auth;method=logout	20:54
SDuensin	perlDreamer - Still enjoying the power of the dark side?	20:54
+perlDreamer	I just wrote your macro code	20:54
+perlDreamer	on that demo site	20:54
+perlDreamer	and it works	20:54
SDuensin	Dude, the URL contains the closing paren and semicolon of the macro. WTF?	20:55
elnino	=) Just wondering if there is a way to manually install wre without recompilein it (because I'm lazy). I don't know if I can do anything about unblocking port 60834. If I just untar the wre and webgui files, and bring over my conf files, would that work?	20:55
SDuensin	should	20:56
@Haarg	elnino, what i usually do re port 60834 is use ssh port forwarding	20:56
SDuensin	Can you SSH into your host?	20:56
SDuensin	Haarg - Great minds think alike. :-)	20:56
elnino	yes.	20:56
+perlDreamer	SDuensin, the stupid rich text editor is eating the macro	20:57
@Haarg	ssh user@host -L60834:localhost:60834	20:57
SDuensin	ssh -L 60834:127.0.0.1:68034 user@host	20:58
@Haarg	then you can go to http://localhost:60834/	20:58
SDuensin	Dang! Haarg beat me!	20:58
elnino	you guys are funny.	20:58
SDuensin	perlDreamer - Yes, it is.	20:58
elnino	this is where I get confuesed. Somebody (non-webgui) walked me thru this long ago.. and I got confused, it worked, but I dont' know how... so while I'm using putty, I can access the site using MY browser at Localhost? or do I replace localhost with the machine name?	20:59
SDuensin	Your browser @ localhost.	21:00
elnino	or.. what if ON that machine I just use w3m.. is there a way to do that?	21:00
@Haarg	wreconsole needs javascript iirc	21:01
elnino	oh ok. I understand that.. =)	21:01
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elnino	so putty will do some magic and make "localhost" not localhost. that's pretty cool. I'll try it after I get some sleep. I'm running on fumes.	21:02
+perlDreamer	It's a bug, SDuensin, please file it, along with the text you're trying to enter.	21:02
SDuensin	perlDreamer - ok, I can do that.	21:02
SDuensin	Custom macro time, eh? :-)	21:02
+perlDreamer	in the meantime, just disable the RTE	21:03
+perlDreamer	that thing is a piece of crap	21:03
SDuensin	Eh, yea.	21:03
SDuensin	Users like it though.	21:03
+perlDreamer	you could try this as a workaround	21:04
+perlDreamer	put that code into a snippet	21:04
+perlDreamer	then assetProxy it in	21:04
+perlDreamer	that should bypass the RTE	21:04
SDuensin	The snipped editor isn't rich?	21:04
SDuensin	Cool.	21:04
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@plainhao	i ran the bazaar classLoadTester.pl and i'm seeing two assetIds and a negative instanciate time for one of them, anyone know what that means?	21:29
@preaction	[la	21:52
@preaction	plainhao: it means that perl's timeing is off, which is a known issue with perl	21:52
* plainhao thanks preaction		21:52
CIA-46	WebGUI: graham * r9719 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): preparing for 7.7.0 dev	22:27
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--- Day changed Thu Mar 05 2009
+perlDreamer	SDuensin, did the snippet trick work?	00:08
SDuensin	Yep! Thanks!	00:09
* SDuensin is implementing everything now.		00:09
+perlDreamer	cool	00:10
SDuensin	This is gonna be so damn cool.	00:10
CIA-46	WebGUI: jt * r9720 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (4 files in 3 dirs):	00:10
CIA-46	WebGUI: - Fixed a bug with Gallery where using the web service (iphone or iPhoto)	00:10
CIA-46	WebGUI: would cause images and albums to be uploaded as "admin" rather than the	00:10
CIA-46	WebGUI: user that actually uploaded them.	00:10
CIA-46	WebGUI: - Labeled Survey 2.0 as beta, per our quality policy.	00:10
CIA-46	WebGUI: jt * r9721 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/ (Gallery.pm GalleryAlbum.pm): forward porting gallery bug fixes	00:11
+perlDreamer	rizen: http://imagebin.ca/view/4emPah.html	00:24
@rizen	what am i looking at?	00:27
@rizen	oh	00:28
@rizen	now i know	00:28
@rizen	holy crap	00:28
@rizen	you're making good time	00:28
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@rizen	who the hell do you think you are patspam	00:29
+perlDreamer	well, not too much good time. You can't actually add Stories through the UI yet	00:30
+perlDreamer	but the API is there	00:30
+patspam	patrick?	00:30
@rizen	you think you can just email me and tell me what to do?	00:31
@rizen	do you think i have an email based api?	00:31
@rizen	huh?	00:31
@rizen	huh?	00:31
@rizen	do ya?	00:31
+patspam	shhhh don't tell eveyone else!	00:31
* SDuensin chuckles		00:31
+patspam	JT::Mail->ApproveRFE()	00:32
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SDuensin	Eh, that always throws an error here.	00:33
+patspam	while(1) { eval {JT::Mail->ApproveRFE} }	00:33
@rizen	the beautiful thing about that method is that behind the scenes it calls randomWrath()	00:34
@rizen	which could make sure nothing happens	00:34
@rizen	i could segfault	00:34
@rizen	i might do what you request	00:35
+patspam	while(1) { eval { srand(42); JT::Mail->ApproveRFE} }	00:35
@rizen	or i might do something completely other	00:35
+patspam	i know the secret seed	00:35
+perlDreamer	lol	00:37
WebGUI	pat!	00:37
WebGUI	rizen!	00:37
+perlDreamer	$rizen->installEmailAPI();	00:38
+perlDreamer	that's what was missing patspam	00:38
+patspam	no doubt you've written a test suite for it perlDreamer?	00:39
+perlDreamer	I only have manual tests for that one	00:39
+perlDreamer	$rizen has limited bandwidth and you have to be careful not to exceed it	00:40
WebGUI	rizen, I assume you have read my reaction on the style images, do you have no reaction to my response?	00:40
@rizen	i have no reaction	00:40
WebGUI	that is unbelievable	00:41
@rizen	i really don't care what anybody says there cuz i'm out of it	00:41
WebGUI	ah	00:41
WebGUI	:)	00:41
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WebGUI	out of it?	00:41
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WebGUI	what does that mean, out of it	00:41
@rizen	the designers will do their best to assimilate the needs that people describe	00:41
@rizen	and then will implement the site	00:41
WebGUI	strange	00:41
@rizen	no more JT input required	00:41
WebGUI	so first you ask 'the community' to react	00:41
@rizen	it's a community site	00:41
@rizen	if the community decides to make stupid decisions	00:42
@rizen	that's their own problem	00:42
WebGUI	and then all these reactions go into the melting pot of the designers without rebuttle	00:42
CIA-46	WebGUI: graham * r9722 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Template.pm): fixed: Template parser cannot be set	00:42
WebGUI	and then they do something with it	00:42
WebGUI	so the designers get to decide on user interaction design to	00:42
WebGUI	are the designers going to participate in the discussion you reqested?	00:43
WebGUI	who are 'the designers'?	00:43
@rizen	plain black designers	00:43
WebGUI	the are called?	00:43
+perlDreamer	steve, meg, tabb, john	00:43
@rizen	tabitha, mego, steve, john	00:43
WebGUI	ah	00:43
WebGUI	are they going to participate in the discussion?	00:44
WebGUI	and if so, when?	00:44
@rizen	why would they?	00:44
WebGUI	they are not	00:44
@rizen	this is about community feeback	00:44
WebGUI	ah ok	00:44
@rizen	feedback	00:44
@rizen	if they have something to say then i suppose they would	00:44
@rizen	but they already had the last 1.5 months to discuss what was needed	00:44
WebGUI	that is clear to me	00:44
@rizen	and thats how we got to where we are now	00:45
WebGUI	in that case I am out of it too	00:45
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@rizen	you mean cuz you've said your piece?	00:45
WebGUI	no	00:45
@rizen	you have not said your piece?	00:45
@rizen	you did reply	00:45
@rizen	you were the first	00:45
WebGUI	I mean there is no use in discussing when the people who are going to implement are not participating actively in the discussion	00:45
WebGUI	of course	00:45
+perlDreamer	WebGUI: they can listen just fine.	00:46
WebGUI	I thought you where inviting the community into a discussion	00:46
@rizen	what is there to discuss exactly?	00:46
-!- WebGUI is now known as SynQ		00:46
+perlDreamer	No one said anything contradictory	00:46
+perlDreamer	They may just take all the feedback and build it	00:46
SynQ	well I have given at least 5 points that I would change	00:46
SynQ	are all the things I said going to be implemented	00:46
SynQ	?	00:46
@rizen	i suppose if you want me to go out there and say "i like this idea, and i hate that one" i could, but i don't think there's much merit in that...it's just a flame bait	00:46
@rizen	maybe maybe not	00:47
SynQ	there is a difference between flaim and discussion	00:47
@rizen	that's up to the designers to decide	00:47
SynQ	ok	00:47
SynQ	if you really want a community	00:47
SynQ	then the designers should tell the community why they would choose to do or do not implement suggestions	00:47
SynQ	let me illustrate that with an analogy	00:48
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SynQ	if the county wants the community to participate in the placement of a statue	00:48
SynQ	and ask for reactions to a suggestion	00:48
SynQ	then the community of that county does not feel really heared if all the suggestions are just read somewhere in a boardroom, no reaction is given and then the statue is placed	00:49
SynQ	the same goes true for the webgui.org style	00:49
SynQ	if you now say that it's going to be that way	00:49
SynQ	then there is no use in discussing it	00:49
SynQ	since in that case I don't feel part of the process	00:50
SynQ	I will complain after it is implemented	00:50
@rizen	first of all, you will complain no matter what	00:50
SynQ	and bitch on the points that I think should have been changed	00:50
@rizen	you are Koen	00:50
@rizen	that's what you do	00:50
SynQ	that is not fair	00:50
@rizen	second, you are currently trying to goad me into a flame ware	00:50
@rizen	and i'm trying to avoid one	00:50
@rizen	which is why i'm not commenting	00:51
SynQ	o god please don't let me be misunderstood	00:51
SynQ	now would be the right time from the other people reading this for some support	00:51
@rizen	if i have something to comment on then i'll comment on it	00:51
SynQ	ok	00:51
@rizen	until then there's no reason to do it	00:51
SynQ	just know that I feel being treated rude now	00:52
+perlDreamer	SynQ: you just want the designers to give you a summary of what they're going to change, and why? Do you foresee a 2nd round of debate after that?	00:52
@rizen	and i'm not going to explain my decisions, or ask the designers to explain their decisions as to why or why not someone's feature wasn't implemented.	00:52
@rizen	it is as it is	00:52
SynQ	perlDreamer: right	00:52
SynQ	and yes I foresee a 2nd round of debate after that	00:52
SynQ	rizen: in my opinion that is not a community	00:52
SynQ	that is a dictatorial regime	00:53
SynQ	the community has nothing to say really	00:53
+perlDreamer	that's probably the problem there. Every round of debate is $$, and slows down the implementation of the new site.	00:53
@rizen	no, in a dictatorial regime the community would have no input at all	00:53
SynQ	ok I give up	00:53
SynQ	I understand you	00:53
SDuensin	"I'm sorry. Is this the five minute argument, or will this be the whole fifteen minutes?"	00:54
SynQ	and I don't agree	00:54
SynQ	SDuensin: it's done allready	00:54
@rizen	it's ok if you don't agree	00:54
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@rizen	if you don't like the site after it's built, you still have a voice	00:54
@rizen	it's called an RFE	00:54
SynQ	agreed	00:54
SynQ	I think I have about 5 to 10 RFE's in on the community site allready	00:55
SDuensin	Bet you can't get your RFE rejected as fast as my JSON one. :-)	00:55
@rizen	SynQ, RFE's are implemented in the order they are ordered by karma	00:55
SynQ	I know	00:55
@rizen	spend your karma and move your RFE's up the list	00:55
SynQ	I have	00:55
@rizen	are they at the top?	00:55
SynQ	my top RFE is in 2nd or 3th position	00:56
SynQ	for a while now	00:56
@rizen	if so, they'll be implemented in the next couple of months	00:56
SynQ	3th even	00:56
@rizen	you're not trying to say that we haven't followed through on implementing RFE's are you?	00:57
SynQ	it has been on that list since october 2007	00:57
@rizen	cuz we implemented nearly 300 in the past 6 months	00:57
SynQ	I am not	00:57
SynQ	and I love you for implementing them :)	00:57
SynQ	as I said in september 2008: I have patience	00:57
SynQ	but what I don't understand	00:57
SynQ	if you ask for imput on the design	00:57
SynQ	and I put time in to react to that	00:58
SynQ	isn't it fair I get some response on that reaction?	00:58
@rizen	only if the idea warrants response	00:58
SynQ	ok	00:58
@rizen	which can happen in 1 of 2 cases	00:58
@rizen	1) we don't understand what you're asking and need clarification	00:58
@rizen	2) we want to propose an alternative	00:59
SynQ	ok	00:59
+perlDreamer	it would be nice if the designers would summarize the feedback and say what they were going to change, with why. But only so people know what's going to happen, and not to start a 2nd round of debate.	00:59
@rizen	why say all that? why not just do it.	00:59
SynQ	I don't see the harm in extra debate	00:59
@rizen	action not words	00:59
SynQ	that is what a community is about, isn't it?	00:59
+perlDreamer	actions don't always have clear reasons	01:00
+perlDreamer	not only that, if people want to RFE things that are not implemented, it will help set the karma threshold for those RFEs	01:00
SynQ	perlDreamer: karma threshold?	01:01
+perlDreamer	sure. Let's say that someone wants something very difficult, so the designers say that they would do it except for time constraints.	01:01
+perlDreamer	so the person submits an rfe for it	01:01
+perlDreamer	then he knows the karma threshold will be high	01:01
SynQ	indeed	01:02
SynQ	good point	01:02
+perlDreamer	I think you _both_ have good points. If PB is spending 4 people for 1.5 months of redesign, that's expensive.	01:02
SynQ	or if the designers say that they won't do it because they feel it is ugly then the karma threshold would be low, but the community could have a voice in that	01:02
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+perlDreamer	SynQ, if it was just a template and some graphics, then an RFE with a patch could be quickly implemented.	01:03
SynQ	indeed	01:03
SynQ	like less hourglass stuff floating around	01:04
SynQ	which allready 3 people have talked about	01:04
SynQ	but no designer has come by and said: you are right it is a bit too much	01:04
SynQ	nor have they said: it is a crucial part of the design, we want to keep it	01:05
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SynQ	perlDreamer: don't you think that such feedback is part of a community discussion?	01:09
+perlDreamer	If I thought that giving the feedback was going to cause another round of discussion, I'd be hesitant to give it.	01:09
+perlDreamer	Especially if it was costing me time, effort and money.	01:10
SynQ	isn't that time worth having a community then?	01:10
@rizen	SynQ: i just don't understand what you're arguing for. i've already said someone would give you feedback if feedback was warranted.	01:11
SynQ	time, effort and money might also get you a better and more effective design	01:11
@rizen	you seem to want a project manager	01:11
@rizen	someone to hold your hand and tell you everything is going to be ok, or that the shit has hit the fan	01:12
SynQ	rizen: I'm arguing for a response from the people who are going to implement it so the community feels involved	01:12
SynQ	involvment	01:12
@rizen	and i don't think you can do that	01:12
SynQ	that is what I'm arguing for	01:12
SynQ	why not?	01:12
@rizen	you want us to spend a bunch of time replying to every bullet point that's brought up	01:13
SynQ	what is the use in having a community if you don't involve them in your actions/	01:13
SynQ	no	01:13
@rizen	then what do you want?	01:13
SynQ	I want to get a reaction to my response that gives me the feeling that something is going to be done with it	01:13
SynQ	so that I don't feel that I'm talking to a blank wall	01:13
SynQ	but instead that I feel involved	01:13
SynQ	that I am part of the process	01:14
SynQ	that the time I am putting into it is not in vain	01:14
SynQ	my time is not free either you know	01:14
@rizen	so you want one response to each post that's put up saying "yes i saw this"	01:14
SynQ	are you serious?	01:14
@rizen	i'm trying to understand what you're asking for	01:15
SynQ	I want someone who is going to implement the style to react to my post and in a few lines say 'hey, I say what your points are. I think that this and that might be a good Idea, we are going to have to think about that and that. Thanks for your feedback'	01:16
SynQ	that would make me feel involved	01:16
SynQ	do you really not understand that right now I cannot feel that?	01:16
SynQ	you ask for feedback. I give feedback, but I get no reaction to that feedback.	01:17
SynQ	then how do I know if that feedback is appreciated	01:18
SynQ	and then when I ask you about it in the IRC channel you say (and I quote): (11:41:10 PM) rizen: i really don't care what anybody says there cuz i'm out of it	01:18
SynQ	which achieves exactly the opposite of me feeling involved	01:19
SynQ	I feel disconnected	01:19
SynQ	and even treated rudely	01:19
SynQ	you ask for feedback, and then when I give feedback you say you don't care about that	01:19
SynQ	I think that is rude, don't you?	01:20
@rizen	see it from my point of view	01:21
@rizen	the site is not my project	01:21
@rizen	i've handed it off to the designers to do	01:21
@rizen	why should i care what your responses are to that project that i'm not a part of?	01:22
SynQ	you should care since you are the person that asked for feedback on the forums	01:22
@rizen	i can understand why you might want to hear from somebody that your requests were read and understood	01:22
@rizen	SynQ: I'm only one guy	01:23
@rizen	i can't do everything	01:23
SynQ	and it is rude to ask someone to respond to a proposition and then when they do turn around and walk away	01:23
@rizen	that's the purpose of having minions	01:23
SynQ	I know	01:23
SynQ	you should have had one of your minions ask for feedback then	01:23
@rizen	so my mistake was that i posted the request in the first place	01:23
SynQ	I agree	01:23
SynQ	but the consequense is that you cannot be rude after that	01:23
SynQ	and walk away	01:23
SynQ	how can I know that you have handed it over to your minions?	01:24
@rizen	i should have either not asked for input from the community at all, logged in as one of my minions and posted the request, or just had them post the request	01:24
@rizen	you asked and i told you	01:24
@rizen	that's how you know	01:24
SynQ	for all I know you are taking this up as a pet project because you feel it is very important for WebGUI to have an active and involved community	01:24
@rizen	but you're being obtuse about the whole thing	01:24
SynQ	I don't know what obtuse means	01:24
SynQ	I'm going to look it up, can you bear with me for a moment	01:25
+perlDreamer	thick headed, stubborn, opinionated, inflexible	01:25
@rizen	i think it is very important for WebGUI to have an active and involved community, that doesn't mean that i have to be the guy that responds to every email that comes in	01:25
SynQ	ah	01:25
SynQ	I don't think I am obtuse	01:25
SynQ	I just want to be treated as a full person	01:25
SynQ	in real life as on the webgui forum as on irc	01:25
@rizen	you are a full person, in what way have i not treated you as such	01:25
@rizen	you asked a question about when I was going to respond	01:25
@rizen	and i said i wasn't	01:25
@rizen	and you were offended	01:26
@rizen	i haven't called you stupid	01:26
@rizen	i haven't belittled you in any way	01:26
SynQ	I was offended by this line: (11:41:10 PM) rizen: i really don't care what anybody says there cuz i'm out of it	01:26
@rizen	right	01:26
@rizen	i'm not responding	01:26
@rizen	so?	01:26
SynQ	I was offended because you said you really didn't care what I said	01:26
SynQ	which I thought (I understand better now) was rude since it was you who asked for a response in the first place	01:27
SynQ	but I think we have it all layed out now	01:27
SynQ	and I forgive you	01:27
* SynQ hugs rizen		01:27
@rizen	alright i will watch my phrasing. apparently i shouldn't say "I don't care" i should say "i'm not involved" or "talk to so and so"	01:28
SynQ	please do me a favour and be more carful to not post a request for reaction on something you are ....	01:29
SynQ	not going to look at any more yourself	01:29
@rizen	i still don't see why that matters, but ok	01:29
SynQ	damn	01:29
SynQ	then we are not done yet	01:29
SynQ	you should treat your community with respect	01:29
SynQ	if you ask for reactions then it is fair that people later ask you 'hey, what did you think about my reaction'	01:30
@rizen	that's not what you asked	01:30
SynQ	if you are not going to replay to that people will think you are rude	01:30
SynQ	that is what I asked: (11:40:21 PM) SynQ: rizen, I assume you have read my reaction on the style images, do you have no reaction to my response?	01:30
SynQ	that is actually the first thing I asked	01:31
@rizen	right	01:31
@rizen	since you're niggling me on words i'll do the same to you	01:31
SynQ	go ahead	01:31
@rizen	you asked if i have any reaction	01:31
SynQ	yes	01:31
@rizen	not what my reaction is	01:31
@rizen	two different things	01:31
SynQ	fair enough	01:32
SynQ	I have to be clearer in what I ask is what you say	01:32
@rizen	no you don't	01:32
@rizen	you just have to understand that i'm not going to lawyer you on words	01:32
SynQ	is this line: (11:40:21 PM) SynQ: rizen, I assume you have read my reaction on the style images, do you have no reaction to my response?	01:32
@rizen	and you shouldn't lawyer me on them	01:32
SynQ	not asking for your reaction?	01:32
SynQ	can we start over then, right from 11:40 ?	01:33
@rizen	sure	01:33
SynQ	rizen, what did you think about my reaction to your request on comments on the new style?	01:33
@rizen	i cannot respond to that without creating a flame war	01:33
@rizen	=)	01:34
SynQ	I haven't read that in the thread yet and I kind of expected	01:34
SynQ	ok	01:34
SynQ	I kiss you	01:34
@rizen	now i have koen cooties	01:34
SynQ	let me ask you something else	01:34
@rizen	incidentally both myself and one of the designers have responded to the list	01:35
@rizen	maybe not directly to your comments	01:35
@rizen	but we have	01:35
@rizen	so you know we are reading	01:35
SynQ	next time you ask for a reaction to anything, do you want just an 'hey that is cool' reaction or do you prefer my in detail response like I did now?	01:35
SynQ	I'm just trying to help you know	01:35
@rizen	whether you give a detailed response, or not is not my concern. However, the more detailed your response the more likely you are to affect change.	01:36
SynQ	I don't even mind if something I suggest is not going to be used	01:36
@rizen	So if you want to affect change, then give a detailed response.	01:36
SynQ	I want to help	01:36
@rizen	Great	01:37
SynQ	I get the impression that you still have the feeling that I allways want to put things to my hand, get them to be the way I wan't them to be, but that is not true	01:37
SynQ	I just want to help	01:37
SynQ	I'm just a boy whose intentions are good, o lord please don't let me be misunderstood	01:37
@rizen	BTW, since you're lawyering me I should note that nowhere in my statement did it say that I would personally respond to anything, or that anyone else would. Only that we wanted feedback, and we'd do our best to assimilate it.	01:38
SynQ	ah	01:38
@rizen	he	01:38
SynQ	I would like to react to that	01:38
SynQ	I think that a forum, by it's very name tries to be an analogue of the old greek marketplace where people discuss stuff. In such I think that it is a place for discussion, the term discussionboard also points in that direction. I feel that if someone asks for feedback, it is only respectfull if they then are interested in that feedback. And that they express that respect in engaging in the discussion they asked for themselves.	01:40
* SDuensin thinks we need a sister channel... #WebPooey		01:40
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SynQ	I'm going to re-read your first post now	01:40
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SynQ	SDuensin: I think that is unfair and rude too	01:41
SynQ	rizen: you are right	01:42
SynQ	you did say you where going to try to assimilate it	01:42
SynQ	perhaps I should have understood in advance that it was not possible to have a real discussion on it	01:43
SynQ	but somehow I keep expecting it	01:43
@rizen	hehe	01:43
SynQ	I keep believing	01:43
@rizen	i didn't say that there wouldn't be a real discussion on	01:43
@rizen	it	01:43
@rizen	only that i wouldn't be participating in it	01:44
@rizen	if the designers want to comment they are certainly capable of doing so	01:44
@rizen	i didn't direct them not to	01:44
SynQ	with real discussion I mean that the community would be really involved in the descisions on the design	01:44
@rizen	that's design by committed	01:44
SynQ	I think you should go even further	01:44
@rizen	committee	01:44
@rizen	which doesn't work	01:44
SynQ	and direct them to do so	01:44
@rizen	ultimately there has to be a decision maker	01:44
SynQ	I agree	01:44
@rizen	and that person is going to be mego	01:44
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9723 /branch/WebGUI_Story/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Story.pm: Make edit story form values sticky, for preview.	01:44
SynQ	but that doesn't mean that you cannot discuss, go into arguments and discuss about it first	01:45
@rizen	and i didn't say that there wouldn't be those things	01:45
@rizen	only that i'm not going to do it	01:45
SynQ	90% of the time these discussions are worth quite a deal	01:45
@rizen	and now i've wasted enough time telling you the same things over and over again	01:45
SynQ	I love you too	01:45
@rizen	so i'm going to go home and make dinner	01:46
@rizen	i love you too koen	01:46
SynQ	shall I try and compile the WRE tomorrow	01:46
@rizen	if you like	01:46
@rizen	i haven't been able to get it to compile even once yet	01:46
@rizen	but i keep trying	01:46
SynQ	how is your progress on 64 bit coming along?	01:46
@rizen	not even trying that	01:46
SynQ	oh	01:46
@rizen	i can't get it to compile on 32 bit	01:46
@rizen	after the changes you made	01:46
SynQ	where does it get stuck/	01:46
@rizen	apache	01:46
SynQ	that's odd	01:46
@rizen	Undefined symbols:	01:46
@rizen	"_BIO_set_callback_arg", referenced from:	01:46
@rizen	_start_connect in ab.o	01:46
@rizen	"_BIO_get_callback_arg", referenced from:	01:46
@rizen	_ssl_print_cb in ab.o	01:46
@rizen	"_SSL_CTX_set_info_callback", referenced from:	01:46
@rizen	_main in ab.o	01:46
SynQ	apache compiles just fine with me	01:47
@rizen	"_BIO_set_callback", referenced from:	01:47
@rizen	_start_connect in ab.o	01:47
SynQ	hmm	01:47
@rizen	it's probably a mac thing	01:47
SynQ	could be	01:47
SynQ	but it has to work on mac too	01:47
@rizen	but it didn't used to happen	01:47
@rizen	and now it does	01:47
SynQ	:)	01:47
@rizen	so i'm trying to work through it	01:47
@rizen	so far nothing	01:47
SynQ	bugger	01:47
@rizen	had some problems with lftp too	01:47
@rizen	but i fixed those and checked them in	01:47
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SynQ	I saw you ditched it	01:47
SynQ	oh now	01:47
@rizen	didn't ditch it	01:47
SynQ	indeed you didn't	01:48
@rizen	i commented out rsync for the time being	01:48
SynQ	you ditchet some other stuff	01:48
@rizen	cuz i'm having problems with that too	01:48
@rizen	yeah stuff we don't need anymore	01:48
@rizen	like subversion	01:48
SynQ	rsync is included in all linux and bsd distro's	01:48
@rizen	yeah, but in many cases it's OLD	01:48
SynQ	including git sounds like a good idea to me	01:48
@rizen	i'm trying to include the latest with the wre	01:48
@rizen	no git	01:49
SynQ	the debian git is very old	01:49
@rizen	and probably no rsync either	01:49
@rizen	need to get this damn thing out the door after all	01:49
SynQ	have you seen the 'developers' directory I created	01:49
SynQ	what I would like to do	01:49
@rizen	yes, but haven't looked at it	01:49
@rizen	just saw it	01:49
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SynQ	is create a small set of scripts there that will add stuff to your WRE to turn it into a developer suite too	01:50
SynQ	like all perl modules needed to run all tests	01:50
SynQ	if you ask me we don't really need 64bit right now	01:50
SynQ	but the apache 2.2 we do need I think	01:50
@rizen	like i said i'm not even looking at 64 bit	01:51
@rizen	i'm just trying to get it to compile at all at this point	01:51
SynQ	I know you did	01:51
@rizen	and that's not happening	01:51
@rizen	until i get it to compile	01:51
@rizen	nothing else matters	01:51
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SynQ	indeed so	01:51
SynQ	perhaps you should go and cook some dinner	01:51
@rizen	yup	01:52
SynQ	catch you later	01:52
SynQ	good night :)	01:52
@rizen	continue with my wre frustrations into the night	01:52
@rizen	later	01:52
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CIA-46	WebGUI: jt * r9724 /wrebuild/ (build.sh wre/sbin/setenvironment.sh): a couple additional things to try to get wre to compile	02:11
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CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9725 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (5 files in 4 dirs):	02:39
CIA-46	WebGUI: Templates for archive, and edit story.	02:39
CIA-46	WebGUI: Added switches and URLs for adding stories.	02:39
CIA-46	WebGUI: Fixed date problems in the date_loop.	02:39
CIA-46	WebGUI: Fixed an autocommit issue with folders when there's no currently open version tag.	02:39
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CIA-46	WebGUI: brian * r9726 /branch/crop/lib/WebGUI/Asset/File/Image.pm: checkpoint	03:11
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9727 /branch/WebGUI_Story/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/StoryArchive.pm: override www_add so that it makes or access a folder to hold stories.	03:11
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9728 /branch/WebGUI_Story/docs/upgrades/packages-7.7.0/root_import_storymanager_editstory.wgpkg: Fix a broken label.	03:11
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9729 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (lib/WebGUI/Asset/Story.pm t/Asset/Story.t):	03:11
CIA-46	WebGUI: Add a getArchive method to the Story. Test it.	03:11
CIA-46	WebGUI: Make www_edit work.	03:11
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+patspam	the admin console icons seem to be all GIFs.. should new ones also be GIFs? or is PNG ok?	03:42
@preaction	i think png is okay	03:52
+patspam	ok, thanks preaction	04:46
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* patspam welcomes the post-dinner US crowd		06:49
elnino	thanks patspam!	06:53
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elnino	anyone awake?	10:53
ryuu_ro	yup	10:53
elnino	hi.	10:54
ryuu_ro	hi there	10:54
elnino	I have 7.5.24,and am trying to use gallery.	10:54
elnino	I think there is a bug, would you be able to help?	10:54
ryuu_ro	not sure, what's the problem?	10:54
elnino	I'm getting calendar javascripts included on the photo gallery asset. (i'm looking AT the asset, it's not in a pagelayout. <script type="text/javascript">window.webguiFirstDayOfWeek = '0'</script>	10:55
elnino	and there is about 50 of those <script> lines.	10:55
elnino	just weird.	10:55
elnino	I dont' see it in any template.	10:55
elnino	and of course it makes the page load slower.	10:57
ryuu_ro	good one, i'm running 7.6.13 and i see them too	10:57
ryuu_ro	but I only have 5 of them	10:58
elnino	you are???. wow. That's good to know. I'm searching bug reports, otherwise I'll create one.	10:58
elnino	(the line wraps)	10:58
elnino	actually, in your case, the line probably isn't wrapping.	10:59
ryuu_ro	nope, the line isn't wrapping in my source	10:59
ryuu_ro	how many albums do you have in your gallery?	11:00
elnino	just one.. http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/9779 - please vote! they think they fixed it in your version.. =(	11:01
elnino	you SURE you have 7.6.13?	11:02
ryuu_ro	yep :)	11:03
elnino	may want to tell perlDreamer that.. maybe he wrote the wrong version. I guess I just have to update.	11:04
ryuu_ro	i'm leaving him a message as we speak	11:04
elnino	well, off to bed. It's way late. I'm just glad I wasn't seeign things. Thanks for confirming the bug!	11:04
ryuu_ro	updating probably is the better thing to do	11:04
ryuu_ro	no problem	11:04
ryuu_ro	goodnight	11:04
elnino	bye	11:05
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@plainhao	how do you guys debug memory problems in a webgui environment? couldn't get b::tersesize configured properly, trying apache2::status but getting default wg homepage...	15:40
+BartJol	well you can manage the maxclients in the apache conf	15:42
+BartJol	plainhao: that's also possible for the modperl	15:43
@plainhao	thanks, bart, i'll try that	15:44
+BartJol	so the main confs, not site confs	15:44
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@plainhao	something's eating up memory like crazy, though	15:52
@plainhao	i need to track down the responsible modules	15:53
+BartJol	which processes?	15:53
@plainhao	sizelimit is killing the modperl process because it grows out of control	15:53
+BartJol	I have it once in a while that processes go on the run, mostly I restart modperl and modproxy	15:53
@plainhao	i even upped the max	15:54
@plainhao	so i have no choice but to track down the source of the problem	15:54
+BartJol	mm	15:56
+BartJol	strange, is that on a regular install?	15:56
@plainhao	patched dev install of 7.5.25	15:57
+BartJol	mmm	15:57
+BartJol	well, I'm afraid I can't track it down from here	15:58
+BartJol	:)	15:58
+BartJol	so for now I can't help you more	15:58
+BartJol	sorry	15:58
@plainhao	thanks anyway :)	15:59
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@plainhao	is it safe to remove stuff from /tmp/WebGUICache?	18:18
@rizen	yup	18:18
@plainhao	struggling to track down a modperl memory leak	18:18
@rizen	it's also safe to delete everything in the cache table if you're using database cache	18:18
* plainhao thanks rizen.		18:19
SynQ2	hey rizen!	18:21
SynQ2	are you making progress on compilation yet?	18:21
@rizen	made some	18:21
SynQ2	nice	18:22
@rizen	figured out that readline is the bitch	18:22
SynQ2	readline should be included in the wre	18:22
SynQ2	it bit me on debian once or twice before	18:22
@rizen	yeah, but when you have readline compiled into the wre (at least on mac) then apache and rsync don't want to compile	18:22
@rizen	it's only really needed for lftp	18:22
SynQ2	wierd	18:23
@rizen	currently the only way i can figure to make it work is to	18:23
@rizen	compile lftp and readline into /data/wre/prereqs/lftp	18:23
@rizen	then put a shell script in /data/wre/prereqs/bin/lftp	18:23
@rizen	that points to it	18:23
SynQ2	sounds like a good way to deal with that for me	18:23
@rizen	and sets up the appropriate env	18:23
@rizen	to me it seems like a jury rig	18:23
@rizen	so i'm trying to figure a way around it	18:24
SynQ2	wouldn't a pure perl alternative to lftp be the way to go?	18:24
@rizen	not really possible	18:24
SynQ2	lftp is only used for WRE backups right?	18:24
@rizen	unless you want to spend 20 years	18:24
@rizen	lftp does huge stuff	18:24
@rizen	and very well	18:24
@rizen	yes only for backups	18:24
SynQ2	ok	18:24
SynQ2	I have seen what lftp can do	18:25
SynQ2	quite impressive indeed	18:25
@rizen	lftp is pretty much the most impressive file transfer system on the planet (besides rsync)	18:25
@rizen	anyway, i have it working like this now	18:25
@rizen	but i'm still looking into another possibility	18:25
@rizen	haarg thinks that maybe if i compile lftp last	18:26
@rizen	the other things will keep working	18:26
SynQ2	ok	18:26
SynQ2	but then a recompile won't work	18:26
@rizen	yeah	18:26
@rizen	ok i'll live with the hack for now	18:26
SynQ2	not that that should be a problem	18:26
@rizen	until someone comes up with something better	18:26
SynQ2	so will I	18:26
+perlDreamer	lose lftp. backups are for wimps.	18:27
+perlDreamer	customers don't backup anyway	18:27
SynQ2	unfortunately I don't have a mac so I cannot help you there	18:27
* SynQ2 tips perlDreamer over like a spotted cow		18:27
SynQ2	don't use flaimbait on us	18:27
SynQ2	you know how allergic JT is to that	18:27
@rizen	well pb is switching to rsync for all backups anyway	18:28
SynQ2	so am I	18:28
@rizen	but we still have to support those people that use ftp, webdav, etc	18:28
SynQ2	and rsync over ssh works like a charm if you want it remote	18:28
@rizen	and that's where lftp comes in	18:28
@rizen	yup, that's what we're doing sync	18:28
SynQ2	well, for me you can skip that	18:28
@rizen	rsync is already compiling	18:28
@rizen	now that readline is out of the way	18:28
@rizen	the reason i want it is that a lot of operating systems only come with the 2.x versions of rsync, and i want the 3.x version	18:29
SynQ2	I would say, ask the dev list if anyone still want to keep the ftp and webdav option	18:29
SynQ2	then just kick lftp out	18:29
SynQ2	if they don't	18:29
@rizen	well the hack works for now	18:29
@rizen	we can deal with that over time	18:29
@rizen	slowly migrate it out	18:29
SynQ2	shall I ask the dev list?	18:29
@rizen	feel free	18:29
SynQ2	ok I will	18:29
@rizen	but it's staying in for this release	18:30
@rizen	we can take it out in the next	18:30
SynQ2	agreed	18:30
@rizen	if no one cares	18:30
SynQ2	indeed so	18:30
SynQ2	mail sent	18:33
SynQ2	any other problems in compiling?	18:33
@rizen	still working out some stuff in build.sh regarding this new way of compiling lftp	18:35
@rizen	after that i'll let you know	18:35
SynQ2	ok	18:35
@rizen	will be checking in this new version of build.sh shortly	18:35
SynQ2	drop me an e-mail and I'll checkout a version and try and compile again	18:35
@rizen	it's in svn now	18:37
SynQ2	ok	18:37
SynQ2	last time I timed my builds	18:37
SynQ2	they took about 35 to 45 minutes	18:38
@rizen	SynQ2: what type of operating systems are you building on?	18:38
SynQ2	for a build.sh --all	18:38
SynQ2	debian etch 32bits	18:38
@rizen	ok, that's a pretty standard linux, so if it works there it should work on most/all linuxes	18:38
SynQ2	indeed	18:38
@rizen	that's good to hear	18:38
SynQ2	checking it out now	18:38
@rizen	the bane of my existence is usually freebsd	18:39
@rizen	hopefully it will go well there	18:39
SynQ2	I'm helping you hope that	18:40
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SynQ2	it's one of the reasons we ditched freebsd	18:40
SynQ2	I'm gonna do a getsource.sh first	18:41
SynQ2	and a getperlmodules.sh	18:41
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9730 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (23 files in 14 dirs): merge back with HEAD for 7.7.0	18:41
CIA-46	WebGUI: jt * r9731 /wrebuild/ (build.sh wre/sbin/setenvironment.sh): fixed lftp / readline issues	18:41
+BartJol	weren't you going home 2 hours ago SynQ?	18:41
@rizen	SynQ2: btw, those get....sh modules, are awesome! nice work.	18:42
SynQ2	thanks you are very welcome	18:42
SynQ2	mysql 5.1.32 is available :)	18:43
SynQ2	I see now that I want that	18:43
+perlDreamer	the last time we looked at mysql 5.1 it cost us 3 hours of core work	18:43
SynQ2	because: Incompatible Change: The fix for Bug#33699 introduced a change to the UPDATE statement such that assigning NULL to a NOT NULL column caused an error even when strict SQL mode was not enabled.	18:43
SynQ2	perlDreamer: that is exactly why I want .32	18:44
SynQ2	since that is fixed now	18:44
SynQ2	JT: is it OK if I update that later?	18:44
@rizen	yup	18:44
@rizen	until we're starting to build for release	18:45
@rizen	you can keep updating modules	18:45
@rizen	since i haven't gotten even one successful compile yet, i don't think we're very close to starting to build for release	18:45
SynQ2	ok :)	18:45
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SynQ2	JT: build is running now	18:46
SynQ2	I'm gonna use the time it is taking to drive home	18:47
SynQ2	catch you later	18:47
@rizen	later	18:47
+perlDreamer	rizen: is it about 11:26 am where you are?	19:24
@rizen	yes	19:24
CIA-46	WebGUI: koen * r9732 /wrebuild/getsource.sh: fixed tar xvf line for rsync	19:24
+perlDreamer	excellent	19:25
+perlDreamer	at some point I'm going to submit an RFE for the timezones of admin and Visitor to be adjusted to local time zone during install/setup	19:26
@Haarg	doesn't it do that already?	19:40
@Haarg	or do you mean by detecting the local time zone?	19:40
+perlDreamer	Admin's time zone is Chicago	19:48
+perlDreamer	which at first told me that I was creating stories at the wrong time	19:48
+perlDreamer	but that's not the problem	19:48
+perlDreamer	the problem is that Admin's time zone is Chicago, and Chicago is two hours ahead of Portland	19:49
+perlDreamer	but since I'm Admin, and I live in Portland, I'd prefer it if Admin were always my time zone, whereever I happen to be.	19:49
+perlDreamer	so when it goes through setup/install, it would be handy if it set Admin's time zone to here.	19:50
+perlDreamer	which I could do with another --util script to wgd reset	19:51
+perlDreamer	maybe the problem is that I'm not going through the site starter	19:51
@rizen	it already does that pd	19:52
@rizen	on the blue screen during site setup	19:52
@rizen	it asks you about your timezone	19:52
@rizen	not for visitor	19:52
@rizen	but for admin	19:52
@rizen	well maybe it sets it for visitor too, i can't remember it	19:52
@rizen	but what haarg said is correct	19:52
@rizen	it does set it	19:52
@rizen	i did that in 7.5	19:52
@rizen	yes, that's your problem	19:53
@rizen	not going through the site starter	19:53
+perlDreamer	so I shouldn't skip the site setup if I want it to do that. I'll just quit whinging ;)	19:53
+perlDreamer	it does Visitor, too	19:53
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9733 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (4 files in 4 dirs):	20:01
CIA-46	WebGUI: Add stories to a story archive.	20:01
CIA-46	WebGUI: i18n support for that.	20:01
CIA-46	WebGUI: log problems when calling www_add in the story archive.	20:01
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* perlDreamer goes to the gym. bbl		20:28
* preaction eats a whole batch of cookies		20:34
+BartJol	preaction: trying to keep the health well balanced in the community?	20:35
@preaction	just helping deafferret keep perlDreamer properly demotivated	20:36
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CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9734 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Add a cancel button to the edit story form.	20:36
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9735 /branch/WebGUI_Story/lib/WebGUI/ (Help/Asset_Story.pm i18n/English/Asset_Story.pm): Help and i18n for the edit story template.	20:36
* rizen likes cookies		20:36
* BartJol likes raw herring		20:37
* rizen gags		20:37
+BartJol	well, don't be affraid, we won't take them to the wuc	20:38
@rizen	i'm sure there's plenty of people at the wuc that would like it	20:41
@rizen	the diversity of the group there is pretty large	20:41
+BartJol	martin doesn't	20:41
+BartJol	so not all dutch people like it	20:41
+BartJol	we're not all insane :)	20:41
+BartJol	plainhao: already succes with your runaway perl problem?	20:42
@plainhao	nope :)	20:43
@plainhao	looks like a memory leak somewhere	20:43
+BartJol	well, I do have some time now, so just give me a root account and I have all the means :)	20:43
@plainhao	not in my code, though, someone else's	20:43
* plainhao is not allowed to give BartJol access, unfortunately.		20:44
+BartJol	already some idea in what module?	20:44
@plainhao	someone else's modules :)	20:44
@plainhao	using Moose!	20:44
* plainhao thanks BartJol for the offer, though.		20:45
+BartJol	moose?	20:45
+BartJol	well, I suppose nobody trusts it when someone says "give me root access"	20:46
+BartJol	I wouldn't	20:46
* plainhao doesn't trust himself with root access.		20:46
+BartJol	:)	20:47
* rizen doesn't trust anyone with root access		20:47
@rizen	except SynQ2	20:47
+BartJol	whoa	20:47
@rizen	i'd trust SynQ2 with root access on a box with no critical data and no network cable plugged into it	20:48
+BartJol	ah, I was already doubting your sanity	20:48
+BartJol	and no wireless I supose	20:48
@rizen	correct	20:48
@rizen	no networking of any kind	20:48
@rizen	not even sneaker net	20:49
@rizen	so no usb ports	20:49
+BartJol	well, as long as his intentions are good I trust him	20:49
+BartJol	they mostly are	20:50
@rizen	if it's about business, i trust him	20:50
@rizen	if it's just an attempt to get root access, then i worry	20:50
@rizen	=)	20:50
+BartJol	well, you can see that as a security test	20:51
+BartJol	most people I kknow (outside procolix/oqapi etc) aready think you're a hacker when you're using putty	20:52
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+BartJol	looking at the code, the language is only a profileField, but I am uncertain whether you can set it as a session variable somehow	21:07
+BartJol	maybe a scratch or stow...	21:08
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+perlmonkey2	plainhao: Which module had the moose leak?	21:27
* plainhao is going to try including the custom modules in preload.exclude.		21:28
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@plainhao	are @INC modules always preloaded in wre by default?	21:52
+BartJol	I thought you had to run setenvironment	21:54
+BartJol	or is that not what you mean?	21:55
@Haarg	webgui's lib directory is not, with or without setenv	21:56
@plainhao	sorry, meant preloaded in wre modperl	21:57
* plainhao is seeing every module on the planet preloaded when he turns on apache2::status		21:58
@Haarg	everything in WebGUI/lib and anything listed in preload.custom is	21:58
@Haarg	everything inside dirs listed in preload.custom	21:59
@Haarg	if you don't want it preloaded, you can just list in as an inc path in the apache config	21:59
* plainhao thanks Haarg.		22:00
* perlDreamer1 is back. Consumption of raw fish cookies can now stop.		22:11
* BartJol is thinking: "mmmm, raw fish cookies".		22:12
perlDreamer1	BartJol, how's that house?	22:12
+BartJol	still slow and today I got a awkward notice	22:13
+BartJol	that I do have to arrange the new meters (water and electricity)	22:13
+BartJol	but actually I'm thinking that guy just wants to sneak out of the arrangement	22:14
+BartJol	he tried all kind of thing with my future neighbour	22:14
perlDreamer1	stick it to him, BartJol	22:15
+BartJol	I'll try	22:15
+BartJol	he says that the energy company said it to him, so I do want to see that letter	22:16
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CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9736 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (2 files in 2 dirs):	22:53
CIA-46	WebGUI: Change how the view template variables work. It no longer appends, viewTemplateVars	22:53
CIA-46	WebGUI: makes them all.	22:53
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SynQ	hmm root access huh	23:13
SynQ	perhaps I should pick up the trade of hacking WebGUI :P	23:13
+perlDreamer	but then you'd have to do the whole hacker lifestyle	23:13
+perlDreamer	hacker clothing	23:13
+perlDreamer	hacker friends	23:13
SynQ	don't I do allready?	23:13
+perlDreamer	hacker body piercings	23:13
+BartJol	ah, it's hosenozzle 11	23:13
+perlDreamer	very inconvenient for a respectable business person like yourself	23:14
SynQ	I'm wearing a oqapi hoody	23:14
SynQ	I have JT as a friend	23:14
+BartJol	I have the JT-Che t-shirt on	23:14
+BartJol	so we are dressed appropiately	23:14
SynQ	what are hacker body pierciengs like? anus piercing?	23:14
+perlDreamer	oh, and I almost forgot	23:15
+perlDreamer	you have to write tests every month for WebGUI	23:15
SynQ	well that is probably true	23:15
SynQ	since to hack WebGUI I'd probably have to do that just to understand enough of it	23:15
+perlDreamer	exactly	23:16
SynQ	sounds like an awful lot of trouble	23:16
SynQ	Building Complete And Successful	23:20
+perlDreamer	w00t!	23:21
+perlDreamer	SynQ++	23:21
@rizen	i wish synq	23:21
@rizen	still can't get apache to compile	23:21
SynQ	wierd	23:21
SynQ	and you can if you just don't install readline?	23:22
@rizen	no now it seems to be something else	23:22
+BartJol	SynQ++? now we have two of those!	23:22
+perlDreamer	karma SynQ	23:22
+perlDreamer	perlbot: karma SynQ	23:22
perlbot	Karma for SynQ: 2	23:22
@rizen	perhaps iconv, i'm trying a few things	23:22
SynQ	I do have libreadline5-dev installed on debian	23:22
SynQ	so perhaps while compiling apache it is using that	23:22
SynQ	Bart: SynQ2 is the irc client in the office	23:23
+perlDreamer	well, I'm only giving karma to one of you	23:23
+BartJol	ah	23:23
SynQ	JT: I've updated the mysql so do update your checked out code :)	23:23
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9737 /branch/WebGUI_Story/lib/WebGUI/ (Help/Asset.pm i18n/English/Asset.pm): Document the missing keywords template variable that is now added to all assets.	23:25
CIA-46	WebGUI: koen * r9738 /wrebuild/ (build.sh getsource.sh): updated mysql to use 5.1.32	23:25
SynQ	hmm	23:26
SynQ	I have missed a spot	23:26
SynQ	and fixed	23:28
SynQ	rizen: can you paste the error you get while compiling into a pastebin?	23:29
SynQ	perhaps I can see something familiar there	23:29
SynQ	preferably some extra than just the error	23:30
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@rizen	http://webgui.pastebin.com/m52524d1b	23:43
@frodwith	So hey, nosy n00b question for some WebGUI veteran or another. How come WebGUI preloads all its junk at mod_perl startup?	23:43
@rizen	it looks like an SSL error	23:43
@rizen	but it's not really	23:43
@rizen	frodwith: cuz it's far more memory efficient to do so	23:44
@frodwith	Ah, with the pre-forking?	23:44
@rizen	yup	23:44
@frodwith	shared memory and all that?	23:44
@frodwith	k	23:44
@rizen	with webgui 8 i hope to be able to use webgui in a threaded mode if possible, cuz then we can use a lot less memory	23:47
+perlDreamer	webgui: woven and spun	23:48
SynQ	rizen: and skip apache all together	23:49
SynQ	just run it under fastcgi and nginx	23:49
@rizen	SynQ: that's slower	23:50
@rizen	at least the last time i benchmarked	23:50
SynQ	with nginx?	23:50
@rizen	never tried with nginx, but my guess is it will be too	23:50
@rizen	apache with fastcgi vs apache with modperl	23:50
@rizen	modperl was roughly 2x faster	23:50
SynQ	http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/httpd-bugs/200809.mbox/%3Cbug-45758-7868@https.issues.apache.org/bugzilla/%3E	23:51
SynQ	hmm	23:51
SynQ	I think we should at least benchmark it again when WebGUI can run in threaded mode	23:51
@rizen	SynQ: you don't have to paste me any links. i guarantee you i've read them all	23:52
@rizen	been working on this problem for 5 days now	23:52
SynQ	oh ok	23:52
@rizen	and it has nothing to do with openssl	23:52
SynQ	seems to me the problem is not with readline	23:52
SynQ	but with openssl	23:52
@rizen	it's not	23:52
SynQ	why not?	23:52
@rizen	cuz if i get rid of all the stuff in the utils build	23:52
@rizen	except openssl	23:53
@rizen	then apache builds fine	23:53
@rizen	so it's something else in the utils build	23:53
@rizen	causing a problem	23:53
SynQ	hmm	23:53
SynQ	openssl is in the utils build	23:53
@rizen	yes	23:53
CIA-46	WebGUI: koen * r9739 /wrebuild/getsource.sh: missed a 31 -> 32 spot	23:53
@rizen	so i'm compiling over and over again	23:54
@rizen	each time getting rid of one more thing	23:54
@rizen	to see what it is	23:54
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@rizen	i really hate working with all new modules	23:55
@rizen	WRE 0.8 compiles so clean and easy	23:55
@rizen	upgrade everything	23:55
@rizen	and you've got no idea what's introducing errors	23:55
SynQ	I agree with you	23:56
SynQ	updating all modules at once is a pain	23:57
SynQ	that is why I suggested updating them more regularly	23:57
SynQ	but on my debian box that WRE compiles flawlessly	23:58
@rizen	yeah, and linux is the easiest thing in the world to compile on cuz everything was written on linux	23:58
@rizen	that's why i don't ever compile on linux first	23:59
@rizen	i always start with freebsd or mac	23:59
SynQ	I understand	23:59
--- Day changed Fri Mar 06 2009
SynQ	and I feel your pain, I have compiled perl multiple times on HP-UX and IRIX	00:00
SynQ	and I can tell you, that is even worse	00:00
SynQ	btw: using that mysql 5.1.32 probably fixes all the trouble we had with those NULL values	00:00
SynQ	since 5.1.31 was doing scrict mode on them even if strict mode was not enabled	00:01
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SynQ	rizen: I hate to tell you this, but _BIO_set_callback_arg and _SSL_CTX_set_info_callback are both symbols that are defined by openssl so it MUST be caused by the apache compile not being able to find them	00:05
SynQ	perhaps this link is of some help: http://www.mail-archive.com/openssl-dev@openssl.org/msg22777.html	00:06
+perlDreamer	streaming audio really isn't too bad	00:08
@rizen	SynQ: stop	00:08
@rizen	you're wrong	00:08
@rizen	i know it looks like an open ssl error	00:08
@rizen	but it's NOT	00:08
SynQ	ok	00:08
@rizen	please don't help	00:08
SynQ	ok I won't	00:08
SynQ	good luck then	00:08
@rizen	unless you want to get a mac and try it yourself	00:08
@rizen	then you can help	00:08
+patspam	perlDreamer: we've been playing with streaming video/audio lately	00:09
+perlDreamer	is it hard to set up on a server?	00:10
SynQ	if it's something else then there should have been other errors before the one you pasted	00:10
+patspam	not if you use HTTP :)	00:10
+perlDreamer	I'm just listening to a radio station that I don't reception for in my house	00:10
+patspam	just settled on Longtail flash player with Amazon S3 for the files	00:10
SynQ	as soon as I can afford it I will get a mac so I will be able to help you	00:10
+BartJol	well, good luck with compiling and listing to radio, it's bedtime for me I guess	00:11
+perlDreamer	good night, BartJol	00:12
+patspam	night Bart!	00:12
+BartJol	merci	00:12
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+perlDreamer	rizen, I had this weird idea last night	00:13
+perlDreamer	if we switch to TemplateToolkit, I think we can stop using the Macro system	00:13
+perlDreamer	TT should let us define very simple subroutines that users can call from template code	00:13
@rizen	perlDreamer: i've already thought about that and decided against it...at least for the time being	00:14
@rizen	macros are used in places other than templates	00:14
@Haarg	but we can add the ability to call macros directly from templates	00:15
@rizen	that we can do	00:15
+perlDreamer	How's that different from how it works now?	00:15
+perlDreamer	oh	00:15
@rizen	call the code directly	00:15
@rizen	rather than parsing	00:15
SynQ	rizen: this is the last thing I'll point you to and that is it http://marc.info/?l=apache-httpd-bugs&m=121750480523495&w=4	00:16
SynQ	can't help helping	00:16
@rizen	heh	00:16
SynQ	that guy fiddled with the ./configure syntax on mac a little and claims it got it compiling	00:17
SynQ	seems worth the try to me	00:17
@rizen	i'll try it after this next compile	00:17
SynQ	thanks	00:17
@rizen	i've already got it going	00:17
@rizen	might as well see if this run works	00:17
SynQ	indeed so	00:18
SynQ	have you noteced too that for two perl modules the ./build.sh still asks for human input?	00:18
@rizen	no	00:19
@rizen	cuz i can't get that far	00:19
@rizen	perlDreamer: great idea though, keep those coming	00:20
+perlDreamer	well, there is one other thing	00:20
+perlDreamer	we have to be very, very careful what we allow TT to have access to	00:20
+perlDreamer	since it will happily execute method calls on objects	00:21
+perlDreamer	so we can't ever pass in a session	00:21
+perlDreamer	or anything that has a session	00:21
+perlDreamer	since then you could do session.db.write('update auth set passwd = ""')	00:21
+perlDreamer	or other kinds of bad stuff	00:21
+perlDreamer	there are probably config options for that	00:22
@rizen	right	00:23
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9740 /branch/WebGUI_Story/docs/upgrades/packages-7.7.0/ (3 files): Template/folder clean-up	00:23
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9741 /branch/WebGUI_Story/docs/upgrades/packages-7.7.0/root_import_storymanager.wgpkg: Fix namespace in Story template	00:23
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9742 /branch/WebGUI_Story/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/StoryArchive.pm:	00:23
CIA-46	WebGUI: Fix label typos in storiesPerPage.	00:23
@rizen	i don't plan on giving it anything other than variables	00:23
CIA-46	WebGUI: Add Story templateId.	00:23
@rizen	just like the current template engine	00:23
@rizen	if we expose macros, like graham said, we can pass in session to the macro on behalf of the template engine	00:24
@rizen	and then macros only take text parameters	00:24
@rizen	which will work in templates	00:24
@rizen	SynQ: same problem	00:27
+patspam	rizen: hola	00:28
@rizen	howdy	00:28
+patspam	are you planning on (or interested in) being in the dev environment panel/talk?	00:29
@rizen	i'm not going to be in it	00:29
@rizen	graham will be	00:29
@rizen	Haarg that is	00:29
+patspam	I thought arjan put his hand up but he was just saying he wanted to see it	00:29
+patspam	yep, wgd is going to be the star feature	00:30
@rizen	you're also going to talk a bit about git, right?	00:30
+patspam	yep	00:30
+patspam	I'd love to have another angle on how people work with webgui in their daily dev life	00:30
@rizen	i don't think there should be more than one PB person represented in the panel	00:30
@rizen	otherwise it is too weighted	00:30
+patspam	ok, sure	00:30
+patspam	maybe I'll try knowmad	00:30
@rizen	maybe you can get	00:31
@rizen	yeah	00:31
@rizen	or someone from oqapi	00:31
@rizen	henry from alpha mega hosting would be good too	00:31
+patspam	excellent, I'll send them an email now	00:32
+patspam	is henry on the mailing list?	00:32
+perlDreamer	wgd needs a whole talk by itself	00:32
+patspam	agreed	00:32
@rizen	no space for it	00:32
+perlDreamer	and Haarg needs a bonus for all the time he's saving devs	00:32
@preaction	isn't Haarg giving a talk about it for our madmongers thing?	00:33
+perlDreamer	maybe an expense account at the Great Dane	00:33
@Haarg	nothing planned preaction but it would be reasonable	00:33
+patspam	it'll be cool because we'll show off all these little things we've been using to make life easier, and then Haarg will show how you can do it all with wgd.. and more	00:33
@preaction	then we could put it on wg.tv or something as well	00:33
@rizen	if haarg had a talk about wgd separate from the panel	00:35
@rizen	would you still have enough to talk about at the panel?	00:35
@preaction	if he talks about the technical, programming aspects of wgd, and then talks about what you can do with the current state of wgd at the panel, there should be enough	00:36
@preaction	i mean, madmongers will be more interested in how he did it, not what it does	00:36
+patspam	not currently, we'd have to get more companies on board (right now there's just me and Haarg)	00:36
@rizen	ok then, we'll leave it as is	00:37
@rizen	haarg is itching to get rid of one of his other talks	00:37
@rizen	which we could do	00:37
@rizen	but only if you'd have enough content in the panel	00:37
+patspam	current grand total number of responses to the Australian WebGUI Census... zero	00:38
+perlDreamer	zero?	00:38
+perlDreamer	What about Radix_?	00:38
+perlDreamer	and Radix_wrk?	00:38
SynQ	rizen: too bad	00:38
+patspam	responses	00:38
+perlDreamer	that's worse, patspam, because there should have been at least one	00:39
* patspam searches his spam folder without success		00:41
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CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9743 /branch/WebGUI_Story/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Story.pm: Viewing stories is now possible.	00:59
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9744 /branch/WebGUI_Story/docs/upgrades/packages-7.7.0/root_import_storymanager.wgpkg:	00:59
CIA-46	WebGUI: Fixes to edit story, view story templates. There is no summary field, it's	00:59
CIA-46	WebGUI: subtitle.	00:59
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+perlDreamer	rizen, within reason, I can add modules to WebGUI for the StoryManager?	01:57
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@rizen	that seems a bit open ended to me	01:57
@rizen	what are you thinking?	01:57
+perlDreamer	There is a module for formatting durations that gives exactly what the Story display needs.	01:58
+perlDreamer	DateTime::Format::Duration	01:58
+perlDreamer	so, within reason = 1 or 2 small ones	01:58
@rizen	oh you mean prereqs	01:59
+perlDreamer	yes	01:59
@rizen	i thought you meant write new core modules	01:59
+perlDreamer	sorry, make that vague and open ended ;)	01:59
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9745 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (3 files in 3 dirs):	01:59
CIA-46	WebGUI: change names of loops to be _loop vs Loop.	01:59
CIA-46	WebGUI: Added keyword loop variable.	01:59
CIA-46	WebGUI: Change subtitle to a textarea.	01:59
CIA-46	WebGUI: Add tests for Story template variables.	01:59
@rizen	yeah DateTime::* is good	01:59
+perlDreamer	btw, you can add and view stories through the UI now	01:59
+perlDreamer	they're not pretty, and they're not fully functional yet	01:59
@rizen	awesome	02:02
SynQ	http://demo.webgui.nl	02:04
SynQ	how fast is that	02:04
SynQ	compared to http://demo.webgui.org	02:04
SynQ	for you in the states?	02:04
SynQ	for me, after creating a site and logging in when I click 'turn admin on' the difference is 6.5 seconds for demo.webgui.org and 1.2 seconds for demo.webgui.nl	02:07
SynQ	that demo.webgui.nl is running the newly compiled WRE svn HEAD version btw	02:07
SynQ	I have used lori (firefox plugin) to time that. times mentioned are time-to-complete	02:12
+patspam	I'm about to try with Hammerhead	02:12
+patspam	(firebug plugin)	02:12
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+patspam	Admin Mode will be very latency-sensitive (and hence locate sensitive) because of the large number of requests	02:13
SynQ	I understand	02:15
+patspam	e.g. they'll both be slow for me in australia =p	02:16
SynQ	which makes you a good benchmark	02:17
+patspam	15 seconds vs. 14 seconds on an empty cache (demo.webgui.nl faster)	02:24
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SynQ	that is not much of a difference	02:25
SynQ	one second	02:25
SynQ	perhaps if I tune mysql some more	02:25
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Mech422Home	perldreamer: I'm supposed to get up a vm for you, aren't I ?	02:27
SynQ	patspam: could you try again? I have now turned the tmpdir to a ramdisk	02:36
SynQ	I'm thinking	02:37
SynQ	since a demo is temporary anyway	02:37
SynQ	why not put the demo domains dir into ram too...	02:37
+patspam	http://webgui.pastebin.com/d45b15bea	02:39
SynQ	wow	02:39
SynQ	blazingly fast	02:39
SynQ	can you do that again	02:40
SynQ	with these improvements I just did	02:40
+patspam	i think i did them after the ramdisk change	02:40
+patspam	you want me to do it again again?	02:40
SynQ	oh	02:41
SynQ	the ramdiskchange was done at 1:38	02:41
SynQ	that was the time I put the /data/domains/demo dir to ramdisk too	02:41
+patspam	empty cache with Admin On still averages 13.5 seconds	02:43
SynQ	ok	02:43
Mech422Home	patspam: for how many requests ?	02:43
SynQ	what surprises me	02:44
SynQ	is that with admin off .org is faster	02:44
SynQ	and with admin on .nl is faster	02:44
+patspam	i must have better latency to .nl and .org	02:45
+patspam	/and/than/	02:45
+patspam	Mech422Home: 104 requests	02:45
+patspam	admin mode in all its glory	02:45
+patspam	732.2K Total size	02:45
Mech422Home	.13/request - very nice :-)	02:45
+patspam	SynQ: server-side tweaks probably won't change much, since the request overhead/latency is the dominating factor with admin mode on	02:46
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SynQ	ok	02:47
Mech422Home	patspam: the size probably isn't a big factor - given its the admin mode, time is prolly mostly for checking permissions, generating personalizations, etc - doing all that in .13 sec is very nice :-)	02:47
SynQ	that justifies a plee for local demo sites around the world	02:47
+patspam	Mech422Home: most of them are static files served up by modproxy, so it doesn't have to do much	02:48
Mech422Home	patspam: really? ohh....	02:48
+patspam	SynQ: I'm going to try again with lori because Hammerhead seems a bit buggy	02:49
SynQ	patspam: I don't think I can get that demo system to go any faster than what it is now	02:49
SynQ	I was hoping that it would prove faster then demo.webgui.org	02:50
SynQ	which feels very slow for me compared to demo.webgui.nl	02:50
SynQ	but it could indeed be that it's the locality that is the killer	02:50
SynQ	any US based people with lori around?	02:50
SynQ	perlDreamer?	02:51
Mech422Home	SynQ: If there are debian packages for it - I can hit it from our co-lo'd servers ?	02:51
Mech422Home	SynQ: though I really wouldn'	02:51
Mech422Home	wouldn't worry too much - less then 1 second is gonna seem very quick to humans..	02:51
SynQ	debian packages?	02:51
Mech422Home	and anyone doing mechanized tests would factor in location, etc	02:52
SynQ	I don't think I understand what you are getting at	02:52
Mech422Home	Synq: I'm assuming lori is some sort of benchmark package ?	02:52
SynQ	it is a firefox plugin	02:52
SynQ	that shows you the load time of a page	02:52
Mech422Home	oh - I'm on a crappy cable connection - my times are gonna suck	02:52
SynQ	and the 'from click to first byte' time	02:52
Mech422Home	but I think I have it installed - I have yslow too if ya like	02:53
SynQ	I'm looking for the difference in 'feel' between demo.webgui.org and demo.webgui.nl	02:53
SynQ	could you create a demo site on both of them and tell me which feels faster	02:53
Mech422Home	gimme a minute	02:53
SynQ	ok	02:53
+patspam	SynQ: http://webgui.pastebin.com/d1b7cd427	02:55
Mech422Home	feels nice - I don't have lori installed - but I can install it real quick if ya tell me what url ya want tested ?	02:55
SynQ	what feels nice/	02:56
SynQ	patspam: that looks more in favour of .nl	02:56
SynQ	still 10 seconds	02:57
SynQ	that is a long wait	02:57
SynQ	I don't envy you	02:57
Mech422Home	demo.webgui.nl	02:57
+patspam	Mech422Home: use these	02:57
+patspam	http://demo.webgui.nl/demo1236297843_846/home?op=switchOnAdmin	02:57
+patspam	http://demo.webgui.org/demo1236298554_565/home?op=switchOnAdmin	02:57
+Radix-wrk	"1236300927217","http://demo.webgui.nl/demo1236300948_621/","882","9527","134981","16"	02:59
+Radix-wrk	"1236301017624","http://demo.webgui.org/demo1236301000_170/","1032","9595","188005","16"	02:59
+Radix-wrk	they're what I get.. wierd that the kb downloaded is 50kb higher for the webgui.org vs the .nl - yet identical page and selections on each one and cleared cache before each one	03:00
+Radix-wrk	that's purely the first page on each... no login	03:00
SynQ	patspam: http://webgui.pastebin.com/d3f2106a1	03:01
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+patspam	SynQ: I hate you	03:02
SynQ	Radix-wrk: you are also in .AU right?	03:02
SynQ	patspam: I'm sorry	03:02
SynQ	you are welcome to move over here	03:02
SynQ	it's not so hot here and the lines are good	03:02
+Radix-wrk	yup, but I'm on the other coast to patspam and so got different links to US/EU	03:02
SynQ	ah	03:02
SynQ	a better one?	03:02
+Radix-wrk	not always	03:03
SynQ	patspam: to make you feel better....	03:03
SynQ	dev.anxietyonline.org.au takes me 7.34 to load	03:03
SynQ	front page	03:04
+patspam	3.5 seconds for me, with a hard refresh	03:04
Mech422Home	grr.. Iceweasel is being a pill - it seems yslow and lori don't display in the bottom any more..	03:04
Mech422Home	I think liveheaders or webdev swallows lori doesn't it ?	03:05
Mech422Home	lemme see if its buried under one of hem	03:05
--- Log opened Fri Mar 06 09:37:23 2009
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--- Log opened Fri Mar 06 12:49:12 2009
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wgGuest89	jbhjhj	12:49
wgGuest89	morning	12:49
wgGuest89	no specific question.. was wondering if a chat functionality is present in WegBUI cms	12:50
@preaction	what kind of chat? there's a shoutbox available in the bazaar i believe	12:53
wgGuest89	ok, I'll check. Thanks!	12:54
@preaction	wgGuest89: if you can't find it, come back tomorrow and i'll have fixed it up and added it. it's been on my to-do list for a very long time	12:59
* bartjol is going for lunch		13:03
--- Log opened Fri Mar 06 13:29:28 2009
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juan	upgrading webgui from 7.5.40 to 7.6.11, i had some errors	16:18
juan	http://webgui.pastebin.com/m272fdb9b	16:18
juan	for example the first error duplicate column url, i try to fix it	16:19
juan	i deleted this field for the table and then i try to run the upgrade again and appears the second error	16:20
juan	i don't know if is the best way to fix them	16:20
ckotil	The dev's are going to tell you to back out of the upgrade	16:22
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carogray	panicking about server upgrade next wednesday	17:22
carogray	What does this mean?	17:22
carogray	The Web Services Client is no longer part of the official distribution of WebGUI, but is still available to be maintained by third-parties. However, if you don't want to use Web Services Client any longer, make sure you delete all Web Services Clients from your site prior to the upgrade and purge them from your trash. Then the upgrade will automatically uninstall the Web Services Client from your site.	17:22
carogray	what is the "Web Services Client"?	17:22
@Haarg	it's an asset	17:25
@Haarg	used for interacting with SOAP servers	17:25
@Haarg	there were a number of problems with its functions and implementation	17:26
@rizen	and it didn't really comply with our user interface specifications	17:28
@rizen	we want all assets in webgui to be usable by normal users	17:28
carogray	so from your answer I can assume that we at MLRI and our program sites don't need to worry our little brains with it? we are not using any are we?	17:33
@rizen	i doubt very much that you would have ever used it	17:33
@rizen	except maybe to see what it was	17:33
@rizen	hardly anybody was using it (less than 1% of our user base)	17:33
carogray	we use a Google search that wouldn't be what you are talking about would it?	17:33
@rizen	nope	17:33
carogray	phew!	17:33
@rizen	if lots of people were using something, we certainly wouldn't get rid of it	17:34
@rizen	we'd spruce it up and make it easier to use	17:34
carogray	ok thanks - next question?	17:34
carogray	is the only way to detect whether templates are using Head blocks either to go and look at each template or run another blinkin SQL report?	17:35
@rizen	yep, you'd have to run an sql report	17:36
carogray	ugh - that's what I was afraid of. if they head blocks are merged with Extra head tags and there is stuff in the head blocks - will they just be in the Extra head tags after the upgrade or would I need to copy stuff from Head blocks to Extra Head tags?	17:37
@rizen	the upgrade will move it for you	17:38
carogray	HOORAY! so I don't have to go and look at every template ! and if it's in the extra head tags it should work anyway right?	17:38
@rizen	select url,extraHeadTags from assetData left join asset using (assetId) where extraHeadTags<>'';	17:39
@rizen	if you want to use an sql report to look in advance	17:39
@rizen	that's the query	17:39
@rizen	in general it should just work	17:40
@rizen	we tell you about the change for 2 reasons	17:40
carogray	thanks - really, but if the stuff is just moved to Extra Head tags and it should work then...I might just try the query for "kicks" - literally	17:40
@rizen	1) if something doesn't work, then you know where to look	17:40
@rizen	2) next time you edit the template, you don't freak out and go "where's my head block field!!!!?!?!???!!!"	17:40
carogray	so I should try to run the query and then check after upgrade to see...ok thanks	17:40
carogray	can I ask who you are Rizen?	17:41
carogray	may I rather?	17:41
@rizen	rizen = JT@PB	17:41
carogray	I thought so. Funny how your tone can even come through in this medium..:)	17:41
carogray	One last question..	17:41
carogray	if my templates for the tell a friend thing work on the demo should they not work after our upgrade?	17:42
+bartjol	most people here rizen is another word for god	17:42
@rizen	i hope my tone isn't offensive to you. =)	17:42
+bartjol	an angry, vengeful god that is ;)	17:42
+bartjol	no he's nice	17:43
carogray	not to me!!! I am ever so grateful ALWAYS for the patience and tolerance and willingness to teach you have shown me over the last 4 years	17:43
carogray	and to bartjol to and the two Perldreamer and Perlmonkey and preaction too	17:43
carogray	but I have only made their acquaintance recentlly	17:44
@rizen	yeah, tell a friend should work the same before and after	17:44
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carogray	anyhow I have to run off to an appt	17:44
@rizen	the example of tell a friend is built right into webgui demo	17:44
@rizen	so it better work	17:44
@rizen	=)	17:44
carogray	uh - I noticed that - but my template I made it pretty with special fields that are blue and bluer... a la BBC.co.uk	17:45
carogray	will that be lost?	17:45
carogray	gotta go - will check back when I return	17:45
+bartjol	hey rizen, I was thinking on my language stuff, I'd just might wanna set a scratch variable in the setting for another language than the user of the session	17:46
+bartjol	would that be something acceptable	17:46
+bartjol	it feels a bit dirty	17:46
@rizen	don't think that will be a problem carogray	17:46
@rizen	bartjol: tell me the problem you're trying to solve and we can work together on a solution	17:46
+bartjol	well	17:47
+bartjol	I'm thinking bilangual	17:47
+perlDreamer	i18n typo fixed, bartjol. Sorry for the wait.	17:47
+bartjol	so when a user (let's say the visitor user) wants to change language, he presses a button (which activates a content handler prolly)	17:47
+bartjol	and huray!	17:48
+bartjol	so you need only 1 template	17:48
+bartjol	for 1 page	17:48
+bartjol	but can see it in different languages	17:49
+bartjol	I'm not talking content	17:49
@rizen	so the problem is that you want to build a multi lingual site where the users aren't logged in	17:49
+bartjol	yeah	17:49
@rizen	so that you can interactively change languages on the fly	17:49
+bartjol	and the language is coupled to the user object	17:49
+bartjol	you can change it, but only through the profileField method	17:50
+bartjol	so then you set the profile field in the profile	17:50
@rizen	seems like a scratch variable is the way to go, but it should be built into the api, not some undocumented willy nilly scratch variable off in nevernever land	17:50
+bartjol	nono	17:50
+bartjol	but I'll have to change quit some stuff	17:51
+bartjol	I thik	17:51
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@rizen	it should only need to be changed in 2 methods in the WebGUI::International module	17:52
@rizen	and then you'd be done	17:52
+bartjol	because everywhere there is "$user->profileField("language"); you have to make an \|\| statment with $session->getScratch("language");	17:52
@rizen	it looks at session->user->profileField("language")	17:52
@rizen	so you just add a check for the scratch variable first	17:52
+bartjol	like something I described above, but th\en in correct perl	17:53
@rizen	yeah but it's all in WebGUI::International	17:53
@rizen	it's not EVERYWHERE?	17:53
@rizen	hehe	17:53
+bartjol	no?	17:53
@rizen	just one module	17:53
@rizen	and you're done	17:53
+bartjol	ok, that's a relieve	17:53
+bartjol	3 or 4 other places too I see	17:55
+bartjol	but that's ok	17:55
@rizen	where/	17:56
@rizen	it should only be in one place	17:56
@rizen	also you should create a getLanguage() method in WebGUI::International	17:56
@rizen	which does this check	17:56
@rizen	and then make that called everywhere	17:56
+bartjol	bart@bart/data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI> grep -R language . \|grep profileField	17:56
+bartjol	./Asset/RichEdit.pm: my $language = $i18n->getLanguage($self->session->user->profileField("language"),"languageAbbreviation");	17:56
+bartjol	./International.pm: $language = $language \|\| $self->{_language} \|\| $self->session->user->profileField("language") \|\| "English";	17:56
+bartjol	./International.pm: $language \|\|= $session->user->profileField('language');	17:56
+bartjol	./Session/Icon.pm: $url .= WebGUI::International->new($self->session,'Icon')->getLanguage($self->session->user->profileField("language"),"toolbar");	17:56
+bartjol	./Session/DateTime.pm: my $language = $i18n->getLanguage($self->session->user->profileField('language'));	17:56
+bartjol	./User.pm: $languagePreference = $u->profileField("language",1);	17:56
+bartjol	./DateTime.pm: my $language = $i18n->getLanguage($session->user->profileField('language'));	17:56
+bartjol	too much info, sorry	17:56
+bartjol	richedit	17:57
SynQ	hmm	17:57
+bartjol	Icon	17:57
SynQ	hi there	17:57
+bartjol	DFatTime	17:57
SynQ	pastebin is your friend :P	17:57
+bartjol	morning	17:57
+bartjol	I know	17:57
+bartjol	that's why I make an excuse	17:57
SynQ	bart, have you seen demo.webgui.nl ?	17:57
+bartjol	apoligize	17:57
SynQ	I think we are going to have to remove the 'invite a friend' link from there	17:58
SynQ	from the demo content that is	17:58
+bartjol	better: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m10001ec7	17:58
+bartjol	no	17:58
+bartjol	oh	17:58
+bartjol	ah, you mean if you make a demo	17:59
+bartjol	it's in the prefab content?	17:59
SynQ	indeed	18:00
+bartjol	but rizen, I'm not sure whether those other stuff also get i18n messages, prolly they do	18:00
+bartjol	well, I won't stop you :)	18:00
SynQ	rizen: did you know that if you use demo.webgui.org from australia or europe it can be dead slow?	18:01
@rizen	SynQ: got wre to build cleanly	18:01
SynQ	WHOA!	18:01
SynQ	what was the curlpit?	18:01
@rizen	spent most of the night working through all the niggly bits	18:01
@rizen	it was quite a few things actually	18:01
@rizen	but the main thing is that apache doesn't like libiconv	18:01
SynQ	tel me about it	18:01
@rizen	for some reason	18:01
+bartjol	cool stuff! on freebsd and mac?	18:01
@rizen	just on mac	18:02
SynQ	was it indeed not to do with ssl?	18:02
@rizen	right, no ssl problems	18:02
SynQ	ok	18:02
SynQ	confusing error then	18:02
@rizen	yeah	18:02
SynQ	is it all in svn/	18:02
SynQ	now?	18:02
@rizen	it's probably something to do with libiconv and openssl not interacting nicely	18:02
@rizen	or something	18:02
@rizen	so it probably is to do with openssl	18:03
SynQ	and did you use mysql 5.1.32 or 5.1.31 ?	18:03
@rizen	just not directly	18:03
@rizen	i did 31	18:03
SynQ	you should use .32	18:03
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9750 /WebGUI/t/Storage.t: Remove debugging code.	18:03
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9751 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix an i18n typo in the Post user defined variables.	18:03
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9752 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (2 files in 2 dirs): backporting i18n fix	18:03
CIA-46	WebGUI: jt * r9753 /wrebuild/build.sh: fixed some build problems on mac	18:03
CIA-46	WebGUI: jt * r9754 /wrebuild/build.sh: getting rid of old cruft	18:03
SynQ	there is an annoying bug in .31 that does strict mode on 'null' fields even when not in strict mode	18:03
SynQ	which can potentially break a lot of things that are not being tested right now	18:04
@rizen	i understand that synq	18:04
@rizen	but at 1am	18:04
SynQ	ah	18:04
@rizen	i didn't care about that	18:04
@rizen	i cared about getting apache to build	18:04
SynQ	I understand	18:04
SynQ	you are a hero after all	18:04
SynQ	I prefer the word hero to the word god you know	18:04
SynQ	since hero is a brand of softdrinks here in the Netherlands :P	18:05
@rizen	anyway no i didn't know that demo would be slow internationally, but it makes sense	18:05
@rizen	especially to oz	18:05
SynQ	perhaps the values are still in the pastebin	18:05
SynQ	but to give you a figure	18:05
SynQ	in oz it takes 14 seconds to load a page in admin mode	18:05
SynQ	http://webgui.pastebin.com/d3f2106a1	18:06
SynQ	there it is	18:06
SynQ	and from here it can easily add more then one second to the page load-time	18:06
SynQ	the 10+ second values are patspams	18:07
SynQ	the 2- second values are mine	18:07
@rizen	even for me at my office demo can take almost 10 seconds to load the page going from normal user to admin mode for the first time	18:07
@rizen	that's cuz nothing is cached	18:07
@rizen	and it's downloading a lot of crap	18:07
@rizen	and we have a small pipe at our office	18:07
SynQ	that sucks	18:07
@rizen	after the first load though	18:08
@rizen	if i switch it on and off	18:08
@rizen	about 1 second	18:08
SynQ	ok	18:08
SynQ	like my values	18:08
SynQ	if you compare demo.webgui.org to demo.webgui.nl which one feels faster?	18:08
SynQ	demo.webgui.nl is running on the new WRE	18:09
SynQ	with /data/domains/demo in ramdisk	18:09
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SynQ	and database tmpdir also in ramdisk	18:09
@rizen	the .nl one is definitely faster	18:09
SynQ	wow	18:09
SynQ	that is an amazing result	18:09
@rizen	well you're running in ramdisk	18:10
@rizen	that should be a hell of a lot faster	18:10
SynQ	but still	18:10
SynQ	going across the ocean helps to add a lot of time	18:10
@rizen	true	18:10
@rizen	but disk access is truly slow	18:10
SynQ	I agree	18:10
@rizen	especially since our demo server is probably far more loaded down than yours	18:10
+bartjol	8 hours or so, without waiting time on the airport	18:10
SynQ	probably yes	18:11
SynQ	have you ever considered creating multiple 'default content' for demo's?	18:11
@rizen	we have 541 demos running right now	18:11
SynQ	so you can demo WebGUI in particular roles?	18:11
@rizen	plus there are about 20 other non-critical sites running on that box	18:11
SynQ	hmm	18:11
@rizen	SynQ: not really. mainly because it's enough work just keeping one set of content up to date	18:12
SynQ	541 demos are being actively used?	18:12
@rizen	keep in mind we do 2 releases per week	18:12
@rizen	yes, we only let them last 24 hours	18:12
@rizen	so those are all created in the past 24 hours	18:12
SynQ	I mean are people actually putting requests to that all the time/	18:13
@rizen	oh no i'm sure it's only about 10% of that	18:13
SynQ	ah ok	18:13
SynQ	still 54 though	18:13
@rizen	that's actually fairly low	18:13
@rizen	cuz it's a friday	18:13
SynQ	did I show you http://www.loopsetshop.com before?	18:13
@rizen	the day after the release we usually have in the 1000 range	18:14
@rizen	yup	18:14
SynQ	rizen: if you want I can keep demo.webgui.nl up to date and you could redirect european visitors to that demo site	18:14
@rizen	if you don't mind, then i'll update webgui.org now	18:15
SynQ	huh	18:15
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SynQ	update webgui.org with what?	18:15
@rizen	if you don't mind keeping it up permanently	18:15
SynQ	oh ok	18:15
@rizen	i'll update webgui.org so to let me people know about it	18:15
SynQ	well	18:15
SynQ	perhaps you should wait until we release WRE 1.0	18:15
@rizen	ok	18:15
SynQ	or 0.9 whatever comes first	18:15
@rizen	you'll have to remind me	18:16
@rizen	cuz i'll forget	18:16
SynQ	I most certainly will	18:16
@rizen	but yeah, i'd be happy to give people another closer resource for demos	18:16
SynQ	and I'll get in touch with patspam to maintain a .au based demo too	18:16
+bartjol	Koen can good drammen	18:16
@rizen	yeah, that would be good too	18:16
SynQ	bartjol: watch it	18:16
@rizen	the thing is	18:16
@rizen	you really have to keep them up to date	18:17
SynQ	I know	18:17
juan	upgrading from 7.5.40 to 7.6.11 i had some errors	18:17
juan	http://webgui.pastebin.com/m272fdb9b	18:17
@rizen	like i said we put out two releases per week...are you planing on also setting up beta versions?	18:17
SynQ	but as you may recall, it was I who posted bugreports for out of date demo systems in the past	18:17
SynQ	if you'd like	18:17
SynQ	I would	18:17
@rizen	that would be awesome	18:17
+perlDreamer	If y'all want, I can pester you about upgrading when WRE 1.0 is released	18:18
@rizen	upgrading what pd?	18:18
+perlDreamer	you both said that you'd forget to upgrade the your sites when WRE 1.0 comes out	18:18
+perlDreamer	or rather, upgrading webgui.org about the demo site locations	18:19
SynQ	perlDreamer: do pester us	18:19
SynQ	I love it when you do that	18:19
+perlDreamer	oh, the burdens I carry	18:19
+perlDreamer	test writer	18:19
+perlDreamer	chief CEO nagger	18:19
SynQ	hehe	18:19
@rizen	worldwide demos will also make the community look much larger	18:20
@rizen	which is good for everybody	18:20
SynQ	it will show the true size of the community you mean	18:20
@rizen	right	18:20
@rizen	you are better with words than i SynQ	18:21
+perlDreamer	from that Dvorak article yesterday, it seems that we have to be careful not to look like one of those 1-hit wonders	18:21
deafferret	wink wink nudge nudge	18:21
SynQ	and I am not even a native garbled crap speaker	18:21
@rizen	deafferret: what are you winking?	18:21
+perlDreamer	"The current scene is watered down by too many small companies that cannot get any attention except amongst a small cadre of users"	18:21
deafferret	rizen: I just love spin	18:21
@rizen	it's not spin	18:22
deafferret	life is spin	18:22
@rizen	we have users on every continent but antarctica	18:22
SynQ	perlDreamer: where are you reading that?	18:22
+perlDreamer	http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2340029,00.asp	18:22
@rizen	i have an interview with him in 1.5 hours	18:23
+perlDreamer	just remember, it's spelled perlDreamer. 3 e's, 1 a	18:23
SynQ	I think I agree on that line perlDreamer	18:24
+perlDreamer	that's 1 big place where WebGUI stands out	18:25
@rizen	i'm actually kind of nervous to talk to him	18:25
@rizen	cuz i'm a big fan	18:25
@rizen	i love how cranky he is	18:25
SynQ	there are only 5 or so small companies in .nl who are using webgui	18:25
@rizen	there are 5 companies developing on webgui you mean	18:26
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@rizen	synq	18:26
SynQ	who's total turnover is nothing compared with some other systems	18:26
@rizen	there are thousands of orgs using webgui in nl	18:26
SynQ	thousands?	18:26
@rizen	AlphaMega Hosting alone has more than 14,000 webgui installations	18:26
SynQ	right	18:26
SynQ	but that is not webgui	18:27
SynQ	that is swiftysite	18:27
@rizen	and you're probably hosting 100 or so	18:27
SynQ	rizen: about 100 yes	18:27
@rizen	so that's more than 5	18:27
@rizen	that's what i'm saying	18:27
+perlDreamer	swiftysite-webgui == a loose pile of code	18:27
SynQ	but only 4 or 5 actively used	18:27
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@rizen	how many government sites are united knowledge doing?	18:28
@rizen	none of those are actively used?	18:28
SynQ	If you add the turnover of Oqapi, ProcoliX, UK	18:28
@rizen	how many sites has oqapi built, none of those are actively used?	18:28
SynQ	then you won't supersede 1 million euro a year	18:28
@rizen	i'm not saying that it's huge	18:28
SynQ	I'm not saying what we have achieved so far is not impressive	18:28
@rizen	i'm just saying it's more than you're letting on	18:28
SynQ	but if you compare that to the turnover made by for example Smartsite	18:29
SynQ	or MMBase	18:29
SynQ	it's peanuts	18:29
SynQ	while webgui is so much better then those two systems combined	18:29
+perlDreamer	so how do we go from peanuts to turnovers?	18:29
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@rizen	could they be apple turnovers?	18:29
+perlDreamer	definitely	18:29
@rizen	excellent	18:29
@rizen	then i'm in	18:29
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@rizen	so you're saying that PB is bigger in revenue than ProcoliX, Oqapi, and UK combined?	18:30
SynQ	definately	18:30
@rizen	i would have never guessed that	18:30
SynQ	in dollars at least	18:31
+bartjol	that's webgui revenue alone?	18:31
SynQ	no way	18:31
@rizen	well yeah, relative to our local economies	18:31
SynQ	that's all revenue combined	18:31
+bartjol	ok	18:31
+bartjol	dunno	18:31
SynQ	unless UK has made a huge step forward the last few years	18:31
SynQ	but I couldn't know that	18:32
@rizen	we've been growing our revenue by at least 100% year over year for the past 5 years	18:32
@rizen	4.5 years ago there was just me on staff	18:32
@rizen	now there are 17 full timers	18:32
SynQ	I know	18:32
SynQ	reyoice webgui.nl has 15 registred users!	18:33
SynQ	:P	18:33
@rizen	well how do we grow it synq?	18:33
@rizen	pointing people to a .nl demo server would probably be a great start	18:33
Trex	Hey folks. I was wondering if I could pop in and ask a question about the various tables related to assets. Sorry to interrupt your business discussion. :)	18:33
@rizen	then at least they'll knw	18:34
@rizen	np Trex	18:34
@rizen	go ahead	18:34
+perlDreamer	Trex, each asset has at least 3 tables	18:34
+perlDreamer	asset, assetData, assetKeyword, and then any local tables	18:34
SynQ	rizen: I think the most important thing of all is called WebGUI Lite	18:34
+perlDreamer	to avoid insanity, always use the API to update tables	18:34
+perlDreamer	$asset->update() and $asset->get()	18:34
Trex	My main question is about the assetIndex table -- what does the revisionDate in that table refer to?	18:35
Trex	It looks like it should be the most recent approved version of an asset.	18:35
SynQ	WebGUI on booze if you wish	18:35
@rizen	it refers to the revisionDate in the assetData table	18:35
@rizen	which is the version number	18:35
Trex	But I wanted to check to see if that's how it should always behave.	18:35
@rizen	of that piece of content	18:35
SynQ	WebGUI that doesn't have 100 features but just 10	18:35
SynQ	and does a great job at that	18:35
@rizen	SynQ: i'm working to get there, unfortunately it's a lot more work than i thought it would be	18:35
@rizen	in order to make webgui lite profitable, i need a fully automated hosting system	18:36
SynQ	a WebGUI that is better in something specific then any other system available on the market	18:36
SynQ	I know	18:36
SynQ	and I agree	18:36
@rizen	automat is 50% of the way there	18:36
Trex	Should each asset have only one entry in the assetIndex table?	18:36
@rizen	just need to get the credit card stuff integrated, which i hope to have done this summer	18:36
@rizen	Trex: yes	18:36
+bartjol	I think each revision has 1 entry	18:36
SynQ	rizen: just ask Oqapi to do the creditcard stuff	18:36
+bartjol	I'm wrong	18:36
@rizen	SynQ: oqapi doesn't have the imt	18:37
@rizen	time	18:37
+bartjol	I'm talking another table	18:37
@rizen	besides, i've already spent all my R&D budget for the first six months of the year	18:37
SynQ	ah	18:37
SynQ	I still have some spare R&D budget	18:37
Trex	What I'm trying to do is run a query that pulls out data from the assetData table for the most recent version of a series of assets, but without having to run a subquery with max(revisionDate) and the complications that creates...	18:38
Trex	So if I join to the assetIndex table, can I use the revisionDate field to get the date of the most recent approved version of the asset, which seems more straight forward than a subquery.	18:39
+bartjol	yes	18:42
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Trex	bartjol: yes to everything I've said so far?	18:43
+bartjol	to the last statement where tour name was in front of it	18:43
Trex	OK. Thanks.	18:43
+bartjol	de second last seesm ro comply with that	18:43
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Trex	Is the purpose of the assetIndex table (at least in part) to help get around the complexities of the versioning system?	18:44
+perlDreamer	no, it's for searching	18:44
Trex	Ah...but it seems to have similar needs, like only returning results from the most recent approved version of assets...?	18:45
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+perlDreamer	assetIndex is like having a locatedb for assets and files.	18:46
+bartjol	it's time	18:46
+perlDreamer	the things may be under version control, but only the latest versions are immediately of interest	18:46
Trex	Thanks folks. This really helps.	18:52
Trex	You may return to your plotting to take over the (CMS) world.	18:52
+perlDreamer	when you get your app done, can you come back and show it to us?	18:54
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Trex	Sure. If this works, I'll post something to the wiki. It's nothing special -- just using a MySQL report to pull out recent forum posts -- but I'm hoping it will be a cleaner solution than the ones I've found that rely on variations that use a max(revisionDate) subquery.	18:59
Trex	It should be useful for a host of other similar tasks.	19:00
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@preaction	Trex: you need to use the max(revisionDate) subquery, or some variation thereof. there's no working around the versioning system currently	19:02
+perlDreamer	but preaction, for getting most recent posts, where the posts probably autocommit?	19:02
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Trex	preaction: if the revisionDate field in the assetIndex table holds the date of the most recent approved version of an asset, doesn't the assetIndex table essentially give you the max(revisionDate) for each asset out there?	19:04
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@preaction	there's a revisionDate field in the assetIndex table? i wasn't aware, but probably	19:04
Trex	We're running 7.5.38, on the WRE, and there is a revisionDate in the assetIndex table. I'm hoping it's still there in 7.6!	19:05
+perlDreamer	it is	19:05
+perlDreamer	and still in 7.7, so far	19:05
+perlDreamer	Trex, it's probably worth writing some tests for the search subsystem just to double check.	19:07
+perlDreamer	It'll also give you some controlled data for testing (and benchmarking) your queries	19:07
+perlDreamer	it would suck to do the join and find out that it was slower than the subquery	19:07
Trex	I don't have experience with measuring query efficiency other than when a query is slow enough for me to notice...so if it gets to the point where I'd want to run tests to compare, I may come back for your assistance.	19:11
Trex	But in general, it seems that running a max(revisionDate) on the whole assetData table, which would be calculating the max on all assets (even ones you're not interested in) would be a lot of extra calculations...whereas joining a short list of assets to the more limited assetIndex table would be more efficient.	19:12
+perlDreamer	Trex, I agree, but with perl (and WebGUI), the obvious is not always the fastest.	19:13
+perlDreamer	Make you a deal, if you're interestd, I can show you how to use Devel::NYTProf to really benchmark it	19:14
@preaction	the subquery restricts by assetId, which is indexed and very fast to search. if you want to profile mysql though, NYTProf may not be the best solution (since it's also profiling Perl)	19:14
+perlDreamer	but for that, you'll definitely want to write some tests	19:14
+perlDreamer	preaction, have you use the DBI profiling tools?	19:15
@preaction	nope	19:15
+perlDreamer	me neither	19:15
Trex	Thanks, perlDreamer. I may not have anything to test today, but if I do, I'll return and see if you're on...or any other interested folks who may be around.	19:16
+perlDreamer	You can almost always find devs who are willing to answer questions in here	19:17
+perlDreamer	between Europe and Australia, we have most time zones covered	19:17
+perlDreamer	oh, and the US	19:17
@preaction	that's US	19:17
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CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9755 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (2 files in 2 dirs): keyword tag cloud for StoryArchive, with tests	19:49
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+perlmonkey2	Anyone have any idea why on Cent5.2 selinux would be complaining about httpd trying to access /etc/shadow? I'm not using the WRE, and wonder if this is a some prefork behavior.	20:30
+perlDreamer	because selinux is a royal pain in the butt	20:32
+perlDreamer	that's why	20:32
+perlmonkey2	why would httpd need to look at /etc/shadow?	20:37
+perlmonkey2	I mean normally I just authorize whatever selinux is complaining about, but /etc/shadow is kind of a sensitive file.	20:37
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Trex	Another quick question -- I seem to recall that you can switch the template applied to an asset via parameters passed via the URL, but I haven't been able to relocate that information. Did I dream this was possible?	20:39
+perlDreamer	no, it's true	20:44
Trex	Could you please give me the syntax...or a page where it's explained?	20:44
+perlDreamer	I'm not sure I remember where it is myself...	20:45
Trex	I tried a number of searches of the website and skimmed the books I've got, but without success.	20:46
+perlDreamer	it's not everywhere...	20:46
+perlDreamer	but you can do it for the Article	20:46
+perlDreamer	the form var is overrideTemplateId	20:47
+perlDreamer	and you can do it for a style, but it may take two page fetches	20:48
+perlDreamer	?op=style;func=setPersonalStyle;personalStyleId=styleTemplateId	20:48
+perlDreamer	that sets a scratch variable to override the style	20:49
@preaction	when were these things added?	20:51
+perlDreamer	they're very old, preaction	20:51
+perlDreamer	back from the days of CVS	20:51
+perlDreamer	that's one thing I'm really looking forward to in git, the chance to unify the entire history of WebGUI into 1 place	20:52
Trex	Only for style templates? You couldn't, for example, use it within an assetProxy call to modify the template applied to the asset you are proxying?	20:53
@preaction	no, you can't pass url params in assetproxy. you want a shortcut	20:53
+perlDreamer	then, if you're tied to the assetProxy, you could assetProxy the shortcut in	20:53
Trex	OK, thanks again. That eliminates one tangent I could spend a lot of time on.	21:00
Trex	Will return later if I have anything fascinating to report.	21:01
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@preaction	new perl people working on webgui is nice	21:01
* perlDreamer tries not to feel old		21:13
+perlDreamer	... and fails	21:13
SDuensin	Not entirely sure, but I think Satan designed CSS.	21:14
@preaction	SDuensin: i beg to differ. CSS is awesome. the implementations suck	21:18
SDuensin	The entire HTML/CSS thing is a disaster.	21:19
SDuensin	HTML was never intended for presentation. Should have stopped right there and come up with some kind of decent display language.	21:20
@preaction	that's what CSS is	21:21
SDuensin	Yea, but it's bolted right on top HTML.	21:21
SDuensin	It's like building boats out of rocks and then gluing balloons to it because they're pretty and make it float.	21:22
@preaction	i'm still not seeing the problem	21:23
@preaction	but then i'm used to CSS	21:23
SDuensin	CSS is better, but HTML is still the base. It wasn't intended to determine how content was displayed. Originally, that was to be up to the browser. We've just continued to abuse it.	21:25
@preaction	are you using a Strict doctype? if not, then you're perpetuating the problem	21:25
SDuensin	I'm strict.	21:26
SDuensin	Right now, I've got it rendering what/where I want, but the transparency is f'ed up.	21:27
@preaction	my only problem with CSS is the theory that standards mean compliance. just because the speed limit is posted doesn't mean everyone interprets it the same way	21:27
SDuensin	Yup	21:27
SDuensin	Imagine writing a browser though. Egads.	21:28
@preaction	i do not envy the people who have to implement the CSS standards, no	21:28
* perlDreamer goes running		21:40
+perlDreamer	let the food abuse begin	21:40
* deafferret eats everything		21:56
* preaction starves		21:56
* SDuensin has Skittles		21:57
@preaction	where did you get those?	22:01
deafferret	'/win 4	22:01
* deafferret slaps deafferret		22:01
SDuensin	Off my desk.	22:01
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Mech422Home	Hi all - anyone know if the release is coming out today ?	22:11
Mech422Home	wre .9 or 1.0 I believe (depending on 64 bit status) ?	22:11
@preaction	only one person does, and bugging him will cause delays	22:11
Mech422Home	preaction: heh :-)	22:12
Mech422Home	preaction: I'm in no hurry - I wouldn't mind the weekend off...	22:12
@Haarg	it won't be today	22:12
Mech422Home	Are there any examples of creating roles/groups programmatically (like in an upgrade script) or mass importing users from other systems ?	22:14
@preaction	sbin/userImport.pl does both iirc	22:15
@preaction	otherwise WebGUI::Group and WebGUI::User are pretty simple	22:15
Mech422Home	preaction: oh - wasnt aware of that script - thanks - I'll go RTFS :-)	22:15
Mech422Home	oh! and Good Morning everyone! Happy Friday !! TGIF!! etc etc :-D	22:16
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juan	upgrade from 7.5.40 to 7.6.11 had some errors	22:30
juan	http://webgui.pastebin.com/m272fdb9b	22:30
juan	i tried to fix them, for example with the first error, i deleted the respective column in the table and then ran the upgrade again and the second error appears, is correct to fix it like i did?	22:32
@Haarg	are you certain those were the first errors you had?	22:34
@Haarg	that was from the first time you tried to run the upgrade?	22:34
juan	yes, those were	22:58
juan	yes, the first time appears the error to url column in assetHistory, so i deleted that column in that table	22:59
juan	then i ran the upgrade again	22:59
juan	and then appears related to the duplicate column in Folder table	23:00
juan	so, i don't know, why those errors appear?	23:04
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+perlDreamer	I'm back.	23:26
+perlDreamer	Did anybody save me some skittles?	23:26
* Mech422Home hands perlDreamer a vm		23:26
Mech422Home	will that do ?	23:26
* perlDreamer tries it		23:26
+perlDreamer	very crunchy	23:26
+perlDreamer	what do I need a vm for?	23:26
+perlDreamer	sorry, my short term memory is full of Story Manager right now	23:27
Mech422Home	oh - we talked about setting up a 'buildbot' for wG stuff... so I figured we might as well have a generic vm to play with	23:27
Mech422Home	perhaps this weekend, I can start mucking about with that perl buildbot thingy	23:28
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metanil	i've got storageid of a picture, can change the size of the picture.. for preview purpose.. (i'm am using 7.4.17-stable)	23:40
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+perlDreamer	metanil, if the picture is an Image Asset, then yes	23:44
+perlDreamer	otherwise, no	23:44
+perlDreamer	you'll have to reupload a modified version of the picture	23:45
metanil	hmm .. can't i convert into image asset on the fly?	23:45
+perlDreamer	no	23:45
+perlDreamer	I mean, if it was just me, I'd say sure	23:47
+perlDreamer	but WebGUI isn't built that way	23:47
metanil	:)	23:47
metanil	currently, i have got picture uploaded from user profile.. i'm sure its not stored as image asset ( is it?)..	23:48
+perlDreamer	it isn't	23:48
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metanil	perlDreamer: so how i can make current user profile .. so that it the picture will stored as Image asset (not just simple storage)?	23:51
metanil	right now its simple .. i am just doing .. $u->profileField($field->getId,$field->formProcess($u)) to process uploaded image.	23:51
+perlDreamer	right, so you'd need a new Form type that stores Image Assets instead of storageIds, plus an editing interface, plus a place to _put_ all the image assets somewhere in the asset tree	23:53
+perlDreamer	it's non-trivial programming	23:53
@preaction	heh, that sounds like a project i have for a client	23:53
+perlDreamer	that sounds like a project I did for a client	23:53
@preaction	yeah, i'm taking the project you did and moving it to another client ;)	23:54
+perlDreamer	it's too bad more people don't release their code	23:54
metanil	why is it still not there in webgui?	23:54
@preaction	because nobody's wanted to pay to put it into webgui, or nobody thought it would be useful	23:54
@preaction	the new Account interface makes it possible, and that's very new	23:54
* perlDreamer apologizes in advance for any problems that arise, preaction		23:54
@preaction	perlDreamer: no worries, Frank wrote that thing initially, i edited it a lot, then you put it in the Account system, now i'm moving it to another site. plenty of blame to go around	23:55
metanil	(i always had a weird requirements in webgui)	23:55
metanil	;)	23:55
@preaction	also, more proof that old code never dies, it just rots away on the vine	23:55
+perlDreamer	more's the pity	23:56
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@preaction	yeah, i'd prefer it died a quick death so that something more hardy can take its place	23:56
@preaction	botanists would call it pruning	23:57
@preaction	i would call it mercy-trashing	23:57
+perlDreamer	kind of like the scene at the end of the class movie, "The Fly"	23:59
+perlDreamer	"hellllppp mmmmeeeee"	23:59
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@preaction	does bad code know that it is bad?	23:59
--- Day changed Sat Mar 07 2009
elnino	I don't think so.	00:00
@preaction	if bad code gets deleted and nobody watches, does it make a sound?	00:00
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+perlDreamer	You've been watching I, Robot, too much	00:00
@preaction	naughty code! you need a spanking!	00:00
elnino	hey preaction. apparantly, last night was because it was a 64 bit machine. So I'll be recompiling wre, the funny thing was that everything seemed to have been working with the ubuntu32 distribution. It seemed to have created the db, etc, oh well.	00:01
elnino	so if i"m dealing with 64 bit, will I be recompiling wre everytime?	00:01
@preaction	uh... good luck. nobodys gotten a 64-bit WRE to compile yet	00:01
elnino	..everytime I upgrade?	00:01
elnino	Oh great. You're kidding right?	00:01
@preaction	i don't believe so	00:01
@preaction	can't you get 32-bit compatibility libs from the ubuntu reps?	00:02
+perlDreamer	There have always been ghosts in the machine. Random segments of code, that have grouped together to form unexpected protocols. Unanticipated, these free radicals engender questions of free will, creativity, and even the nature of what we might call the soul. Why is it that when some robots are left in darkness, they will seek out the light? Why is it that when robots are stored in an empty space, they will group together,	00:04
elnino	well. Like i said (of maybe I didn't), the libncurses was installed. TYPICALY, the linux I use SAYS if it's 64 or 32 bit. there was no indication that these wre 64 bit libraryies.	00:04
elnino	they looked to me as 32 bit.	00:04
elnino	they were a different version than what I had on my debian machine	00:04
elnino	would it be a problem with the LD_LIBRARY_PATH pointing the wrong place? does wre look for it somewhere different?	00:05
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CIA-46	WebGUI: daviddelikat * r9756 /branch/adSkuProject/lib/WebGUI/ (4 files in 3 dirs): some changes	00:12
+perlDreamer	daviddelikat, please be careful not to make long, laborious commit messages. They clog up the channel.	00:15
@preaction	oh, the adsku project, nice	00:16
daviddelikat	sorry, just cleaning up my local project...	00:23
daviddelikat	can't say as I remember all the stuff I've done since I put it last...	00:24
* perlDreamer is just teasing		00:24
daviddelikat	i know	00:24
daviddelikat	but if I didn't sy anything back you wouldnb't know if i even saw it	00:24
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elnino	when I"m using another's mysql database other than wre. Adding a site via wreconsole probably won't work, right? because I'm getting the error: "Site could not be created because MySQL appears to be down. at ./wreconsole.pl line 234"	00:42
elnino	and it's probably checkign wre's mysql	00:43
elnino	right?	00:43
elnino	or did I modify wre.conf incorrectly.	00:43
+perlDreamer	sounds good to me	00:43
elnino	the dbuser and dbpass in the .conf file are my siteuser and sitepassword that I should be granting to the www_example_com database, right?	00:49
+perlDreamer	yes	00:49
+perlDreamer	and the dsn should point to the other mysql, too	00:49
elnino	yep.	00:50
+perlDreamer	formatting time causes regions of localized low pressure	00:55
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elnino	and is wremonitor going to try to keep restarting wre's mysql?	00:57
elnino	umm. wre keeps wanting to go to /data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql.sock instead of /etc/mysql/mysql.sock.	01:05
elnino	where do I change that? I did a grep, and it looks like it was compiled all over, as opposed to configured in a .conf file...	01:05
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* elnino wonders if I can create link to /etc		01:09
+perlDreamer	elnino, there was talk about making the WRE utility scripts work with native distributions, but that work is a long way off	01:14
elnino	what I wrote is wrong. forget what I wrote.	01:14
* perlDreamer is fazed by elnino's Jedi mind powers		01:14
+perlDreamer	what, did you say something?	01:14
elnino	but my /data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql.sock doesn't work.	01:14
elnino	I have no idea what I'm doing!	01:15
elnino	did I say that in public?	01:15
elnino	I dont' like ubuntu	01:15
+perlDreamer	is it really different from Debian?	01:18
elnino	YES in my opinion	01:19
+perlDreamer	I only use Fedora, so I have no recent experience with eithe	01:19
+perlDreamer	r	01:19
elnino	but I suppose technically it isn't.	01:19
elnino	I think their related aren't they?	01:19
+perlDreamer	I thought Ubuntu was Debian with a nice user experience and non-free stuff like MP3 and DVD	01:20
elnino	it's certainly not obvious to figure out whats installed.	01:20
elnino	I'm starting over.	01:21
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+perlDreamer	do you have to use the native mysql?	01:21
+perlDreamer	BartJol!	01:21
+BartJol	yeah	01:21
+perlDreamer	what are you doing up so late?	01:21
+perlDreamer	Shouldn't you be drinking with Martin?	01:21
+BartJol	it's only a quarter past midnight	01:22
+BartJol	well, I have to drive a while tomorow	01:22
elnino	yes.. I'm "sharing" this server with someone... and he decided taht that is what we're donig, though that wasn't the original plan. maybe that's why I'm cranky. =)	01:22
+BartJol	with a passenger	01:22
elnino	everything is stopped.	01:22
elnino	except mysql	01:23
elnino	which is working fine.	01:23
+BartJol	kill -9 *?	01:23
elnino	no I dont' want to kill it, wre's going to use navtive mysql	01:24
+BartJol	sorry, I'm just dropping in	01:24
+perlDreamer	Has anyone heard from bernd in the last few days?	01:25
elnino	that's ok.	01:25
+BartJol	but I like bold statements	01:25
elnino	lol	01:25
+BartJol	perlDreamer: no	01:25
+BartJol	unfortunately not	01:26
elnino	ok. with everything wre' related stopped. I'm just want to login to mysql to seee my databases. but it's trying to use /data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql.sock. but according to	01:28
elnino	/etc/mysql/my.cnf, it should be using /var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock. why?	01:29
elnino	brb	01:29
elnino	ok	01:34
elnino	so back to my question. why when trying to access my database locally, it is trying to use a different .sock file than is specified in the /my.cnf file? did wre modify something when it was installed?	01:40
+BartJol	eeeh , sorrry I'm into the wre too much right now	01:41
+BartJol	it might be specified somewhere	01:42
+BartJol	dunno where exactly	01:42
elnino	I greped, it's all in wre, but nothing of wre is running.	01:42
elnino	I restarted the navtive mysql and it still insists on using th ewrong sock. something got over ridden somewhere.	01:43
+BartJol	sorry elnino, we're not ignoring you	01:55
elnino	that's ok. it's really not anything that is webgui specific. so I don't really expect an answer.	01:56
+BartJol	well wre expects a certain my.cnf file	01:58
+BartJol	which has a specific .sock	01:59
+BartJol	but it is the right mysqld	01:59
+BartJol	?	01:59
+BartJol	mine is /data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql.sock	02:00
elnino	I saw all those in the data/wre/prereqs/share/mysql/, but I didn't think me using native mysql would try to use wre's cnf files.	02:00
elnino	root@media:/data/wre/sbin# whereis mysql	02:01
+BartJol	maybe if yoy did setenviroment	02:01
elnino	mysql: /usr/bin/mysql /etc/mysql /usr/share/mysql /usr/share/man/man1/mysql.1.gz	02:01
elnino	I did... doh.	02:01
elnino	grr..... Thanks!!!	02:01
+BartJol	np	02:01
+BartJol	which mysql :)	02:02
elnino	oh... it's trying to use wre's mysql. =( Thanks again!	02:03
elnino	boy, I need a slap in the face, don't I?	02:04
+BartJol	no	02:04
* perlDreamer recommends a batch of breakfast cookies		02:05
+BartJol	sometimes you need a view from outside	02:05
elnino	lol	02:05
+perlDreamer	i can't send you the pumpkin cinnamon role recipe until you try those	02:05
+BartJol	raw fish cookies!	02:05
elnino	I do. I'm leting my frustration cloud my brain.	02:05
* perlDreamer takes a break. Back in 10.		02:05
+BartJol	I don't, I let alcohol and drugs cloud my brain :)	02:06
elnino	the "admin" of this server said "everything is working" and left me without telling me what they did top make mysql and wre "work". only to find out nothing was working.	02:06
+BartJol	ah	02:07
+BartJol	you have to give them a course ps aux	02:07
elnino	I do!! and I can!	02:08
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+BartJol	:)	02:09
+BartJol	glad I came online	02:10
elnino	All of you are always so helpful! (and make me laugh at the end of the day) Thank yoU!	02:10
+BartJol	it really is my pleasure	02:11
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+BartJol	and of other people	02:12
+BartJol	just on their behalf	02:13
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elnino	ok. so now that mysql is working, to recap, I've installed wre, created a site "manually" (db and conf files are in place)	02:14
elnino	when I want to start wre... I have to do setenvironment.sh	02:14
elnino	to do --start web and --start spectre.	02:14
elnino	and then when I go to the website.	02:15
+BartJol	yeah	02:15
elnino	and of cource, it won't work, because I"m using the wrong mysql.	02:15
elnino	so I do have to modify all of wre's my.cnf files. don't I?	02:15
+BartJol	isn't it only 1?	02:15
elnino	I grepped last time and found all sorts.. not really knowing which one to use. Maby I should use 'find' =)	02:16
+BartJol	well	02:17
+BartJol	I don't know mysql well enough, to knowe how it handles multiple daemons	02:18
elnino	is this working?	02:18
+BartJol	find is a working commando ;)	02:19
elnino	lol	02:19
elnino	who needs alcohol?	02:19
+BartJol	locate uses too much cahe stuff	02:19
+BartJol	always	02:19
elnino	hey are in /data/wre/prereqs/share/mysql	02:19
elnino	s/hey/they	02:19
elnino	I was starting the chat with a / and it wouldn't print.. hence the "is this working" sorry.	02:20
+BartJol	don't bother	02:20
+BartJol	but accepted	02:20
+BartJol	thinking now...	02:21
+BartJol	sorry can yoy give a recap elnino?	02:22
elnino	hmmm. prereqs/share/mysql/mysql.server defines where the my.cnf is.	02:22
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9757 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (4 files in 4 dirs):	02:23
CIA-46	WebGUI: Formatted duration template variable and method, with tests.	02:23
CIA-46	WebGUI: Start writing Story help.	02:23
elnino	I have to run a setenvironment to start spectre and 'web' but then the path gets screwed up to use the locally installed mysql.	02:23
+BartJol	well, there is a mention of removing aother my.cnf files in the installation manual	02:24
+BartJol	not sure for what reason	02:25
+BartJol	but prolly it's needed	02:25
elnino	I figured it was because wre was goign to install another instance of mysql and the two would conflict... hmm.	02:26
elnino	Ihave the admin book, is that the book you are refering to?	02:26
+BartJol	well, search some mysql fora on running different daemons	02:26
elnino	what page? or are you reading the wiki?	02:26
+BartJol	or on the site	02:26
+BartJol	http://www.plainblack.com/community-wiki/wre-installation	02:28
+BartJol	4. If you have a MySQL config file at /etc/my.cnf please remove or rename it so that it doesn't interfere with the WRE MySQL.	02:28
+BartJol	mv /etc/my.cnf /etc/my.cnf.old	02:28
elnino	yep, right.	02:29
elnino	wre's already installed and /usr/bin/mysql is running.	02:29
elnino	and /etc/my.cnf is being used by /usr/bin/mysql...	02:29
elnino	I thin I'm past that point.	02:30
elnino	I wonder if there is a way to modify setenvironment, so that mysql is looked for in one path, but the rest searches another path. OR i just may make my "admin" let me use wre's like we ORIGINALLy planned...	02:31
elnino	gonig to make supper. I'm going to think more....	02:31
+BartJol	vim?	02:31
+BartJol	I will be to bed	02:32
elnino	vi is prefered.	02:32
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+BartJol	as long it's not emacs:)	02:32
elnino	ic.	02:33
elnino	I meant, "if there is a way to say if you're looking for mysql, only look here, but for the rest of your binaries look here:"	02:33
elnino	no emacs eek.	02:33
+BartJol	sorry, bad joke	02:33
+BartJol	I don't now	02:33
elnino	yep, I was slow, which didn't help.	02:33
+BartJol	you cab grep for it	02:33
elnino	lol - I'm sure I can.	02:34
+BartJol	but I've really gotta sleep	02:34
elnino	I'm sure there is some scripting magic I can do...	02:34
elnino	have a good night!! supper is waiting.	02:34
elnino	thanks again.	02:34
+BartJol	bon appetit	02:34
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-!- SDuensin_ is now known as SDuensin		02:41
+perlDreamer	impostor	02:41
+perlDreamer	how do we know you're the _real_ SDuensin?	02:41
SDuensin	Should I whine about JSON in the database?	02:42
+perlDreamer	that's pretty convincing	02:42
SDuensin	:-)	02:42
+perlDreamer	Tell me about Caramel Macchiato.	02:42
SDuensin	Whaa?	02:43
+perlDreamer	Mocha Latte, Frappucino	02:43
+perlDreamer	whatever that thing was you were talking about	02:43
* SDuensin has black coffee here.		02:43
SDuensin	OH!	02:43
SDuensin	Cappuccino!	02:43
SDuensin	Dude, it's SO DAMN COOL!	02:43
+perlDreamer	yeah, that's it	02:43
SDuensin	I really wish I had time to mess with it.	02:43
SDuensin	The crazies implemented the OOP features of Objective C in Javascript and call it Objective J. Adds a serious amount of power to JS...	02:44
SDuensin	Then they used that to implement Cappuccino, which is basically Apple's Cocoa for a browser.	02:44
+perlDreamer	What is Cocoa?	02:45
SDuensin	Cocoa is Apple's UI toolkit thingie.	02:45
SDuensin	Basically, Mac developers (or suitable impostors like us) can write code like they're used to and it runs in a browser.	02:46
SDuensin	No DOM issues, no weird CSS issues, no HTML nonsense. Just objects and widgets and code like God intended.	02:46
+perlDreamer	sounds cool	02:46
SDuensin	Look at www.280slides.com - it's their first project using it.	02:47
+perlDreamer	and this is written in Objective J? It must be huge!	02:49
+perlDreamer	it's like a piece of google docs	02:49
SDuensin	But looks like a Mac app. :-)	02:49
+perlDreamer	not having a Mac, I'll trust you on that	02:49
SDuensin	ObjJ is a superset of JS and can be "compiled" into optimized JS for deployment.	02:49
SDuensin	Or while debugging, you can run the ObjJ natively in the browser to make things simple.	02:50
SDuensin	YES!	02:58
SDuensin	Tonight is a monumental occasion.	02:59
+perlDreamer	what is it?	02:59
SDuensin	After foolishly straying away from WebGUI at the end of the 5.x series, I am now 100% WEBGUI AGAIN!	02:59
SDuensin	I just relaunched my last site. Goodbye, Drupal!	03:00
+perlDreamer	Welcome back to the fold, SDuensin.	03:00
+perlDreamer	even if there is JSON in db	03:00
+perlDreamer	and variants are hard	03:00
SDuensin	WebGUI: http://www.smithton.net Drupal: http://old.smithton.net	03:00
SDuensin	Notice how awful ugly one of them is. :-)	03:01
+perlDreamer	you live in smithton?	03:01
SDuensin	Yep	03:02
+perlDreamer	Did you get turned off from WebGUI during the 6.x upgrade set?	03:03
SDuensin	I don't remember exactly what it was, but 6.x seemed more trouble than it was worth. Oops.	03:05
* SDuensin didn't have nearly as much online back then. Did a lot in ASP since that's what he used at work.		03:06
+perlDreamer	how many sites did you migrate back to WebGUI?	03:07
SDuensin	Around four. While adding a number of new ones.	03:10
+perlDreamer	did you custom convert these with code from Drupal, or did you do it by hand?	03:11
SDuensin	Just rebuilt it from scratch.	03:11
SDuensin	I considered writing something to move all the content over, but after looking at the existing content, decided it wasn't that big a loss. :-)	03:13
+perlDreamer	it would be interesting to see how easy it is to move content over from Drupal to WebGUI	03:15
SDuensin	Drupal isn't anywhere near as advanced. Getting data out would be simple.	03:16
SDuensin	I've seen people do nice things with Drupal, but I can't for the life of me figure it out.	03:21
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9758 /branch/WebGUI_Story/lib/WebGUI/ (Help/Asset_Story.pm i18n/English/Asset_Story.pm): More Story template variable help	03:33
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9759 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Add the new timeUpdated variable to the template, along with i18n phrase support.	03:33
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elnino	Haarg - I'm wondering if you have any ideas... you may have seen all my back and forths in this chat, but I"ll recap...	03:57
elnino	I'm using mysql that is already installed on the server.	03:57
elnino	but in order to start up webgui, I have to run a setenvironment to start spectre and 'web' but then the path gets screwed when trying to find the locally installed mysql.	03:58
elnino	It keeps trying to use wre's .sock file.	03:59
elnino	and wre's mysql	03:59
SDuensin	Hi elnino	04:00
elnino	Hi SDuensin!	04:00
elnino	I guess welcome back is in order?	04:00
elnino	drupal huh? I used joomla - hate, just hate it... ick	04:01
SDuensin	I had a Joomla site, too. It's LONG GONE.	04:01
+perlDreamer	SDuensin, just how many other CMS'es have you had dalliances with?	04:01
elnino	I'm trying to convert all mine.	04:01
SDuensin	A lot. Most don't make it into production.	04:01
+perlDreamer	elnino, have you considered making the mysql in the wre to be non-executable?	04:09
elnino	no. but that is really clever idea!	04:09
SDuensin	perlDreamer - how can I safely dump the cached data for a site programmatically?	04:09
* SDuensin is reading code.		04:09
+perlDreamer	dump cached data?	04:10
+perlDreamer	like get rid of, or make a backup?	04:10
+perlDreamer	or something else?	04:10
SDuensin	Nuke it.	04:10
+perlDreamer	file cache, or database cache?	04:10
SDuensin	When I create a web site for a user with my new spiffy macro, I send them back to the page they came from. That page thinks they still need to create a site.	04:10
+perlDreamer	that should be easier	04:11
+perlDreamer	set the cache time on that page, and on all of its assets to be small or nil	04:11
SDuensin	Oh. That IS easy. :-)	04:11
SDuensin	Uh, where is that?	04:13
+perlDreamer	On the Page, under Display	04:13
+perlDreamer	and similarly with the Snippet	04:13
SDuensin	In the page layout, or assets in it?	04:13
+perlDreamer	both	04:14
+perlDreamer	actually, let me check to make sure I'm right	04:14
SDuensin	Ah, I see it in the asset. Not in the layout.	04:14
SDuensin	I was able to set the two assets and one snippit to 1 second.	04:15
+perlDreamer	did that fix the problem?	04:16
elnino	perlDreamer that may have worked - but can't tell, but once I setenvironment wre also tries to use /data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql.sock maybe I"ll rename that...	04:16
SDuensin	Oh boy. I think I found a big problem.	04:16
SDuensin	ANYBODY can edit a navigation!	04:16
+perlDreamer	huh?	04:16
+perlDreamer	show me a page, SD	04:17
SDuensin	I'm logged on as "test" who only has rights to turn on admin.	04:17
SDuensin	http://www.smithton.net	04:17
+perlDreamer	and what are the Privileges on the Navigation?	04:17
SDuensin	I don't see any. Logging in as me.	04:17
SDuensin	Whew. Ok. Cancel panic.	04:18
+perlDreamer	It may display an edit control, but that doesn't guarantee that test can edit it	04:18
SDuensin	No, I could edit. I fixed it.	04:19
* perlDreamer heads to dinner		04:21
* SDuensin waves		04:22
SDuensin	(Cache fixed it, BTW. Thanks!)	04:22
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elnino	is the dbuser and dbpassword in the /data/webgui/etc/*.conf encrypted or plain text?	04:42
elnino	I went with "blank" and webgui created them for me.. and so I can't tell.	04:43
SDuensin	Plain	04:43
elnino	that's what I thought. good.	04:43
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elnino	preaction/perlDreamer - wre's mysql is WORKING!	05:47
+perlDreamer	awesome!	06:10
+perlDreamer	how did you do it?	06:10
elnino	tell me about it... He installed "something" - not sure what yet - but after he did that, we didn't bother to try wre's mysql he wanted to just go with the locally insalled one. so after bugging you all, I deided to ignore he's wishes and tried to use wre's mysql. but I he never told me what file I needed to modify to get "his" site to use wre's mysql.. but he said it would be easy.	06:15
elnino	I think what it boiled down to is that I would have needed to modify all of wre's files to use the locallay installed mysql's sock file, and I reallydidnt' want to modify the base code. and I'm not quite sure that would have worked. I actually did find wre's my.cnf and tried to define teh .sock filein there, and it made no difference.	06:15
elnino	so I gave him instaructions to take down the local mysql, start up wre properly and to get HIS site working.. =)	06:16
elnino	hopefully that makes sense. It would be nice if the .sock file was a bit more localized in the wre's code, I think I was "that" close.	06:18
+perlDreamer	that'll fix his little red wagon	06:18
elnino	lol	06:18
+perlDreamer	If you can, try to ask SynQ next week	06:18
+perlDreamer	early in the morning, since he's on Europe time	06:18
+perlDreamer	he's quite familiar with WRE, like Haarg and rizen are	06:18
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elnino	'k - I'm goign to bed now. I didn't make much money on this 'project' grr. I'm glad I didn't have to compile anything. But I've proven that the ubunto 32-bit wre actually works on 64-bit.	06:21
+perlDreamer	good to know	06:21
+perlDreamer	grab some sleep. Don't forget that you're sleeping for 2 now.	06:21
elnino	I know.. hubby isn't too happy with me up so late.	06:22
elnino	ltr	06:22
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CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9760 /branch/WebGUI_Story/lib/WebGUI/Keyword.pm: POD fix about the default sort order of returned assets.	06:29
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9761 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Search form for StoryArchive view form.	06:29
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+perlDreamer	anybody awake?	08:52
+perlDreamer	guess not	08:54
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SynQ	morging	12:16
SynQ	I see this: It would be nice if the .sock file was a bit more localized in the wre's code, I think I was "that" close.	12:19
SynQ	I could define the default location of .sock in wre's my.cnf so that it would be easier to find where to change it	12:19
SynQ	but that is all there is to it actually	12:20
SynQ	I think a symlink from the 'system' location of the sock to the wre sock should work too	12:20
SynQ	but they are all dirty hacks	12:20
SynQ	you should just use IP and a port to connect to mysql	12:20
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elnino_	SynQ - I tried defining the sock location in wre's my.cnf file, but it didn't work.	17:16
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CIA-46	WebGUI: translation * r9762 /translations/German/German/ (7 files): Update from translation server	17:33
CIA-46	WebGUI: translation * r9763 /translations/German/German/Account_Inbox.pm: Update from translation server	17:33
CIA-46	WebGUI: translation * r9764 /translations/German/German/ (WebGUI.pm Account_User.pm): Update from translation server	17:33
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--- Log opened Sat Mar 07 20:20:24 2009
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CIA-46	WebGUI: translation * r9766 /translations/German/German/ (WebGUI.pm Account_Friends.pm): Update from translation server	21:00
CIA-46	WebGUI: translation * r9767 /translations/German/German/WebGUI.pm: Update from translation server	21:00
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CIA-46	WebGUI: translation * r9768 /translations/Russian/ (33 files in 2 dirs): Update from translation server	21:39
CIA-46	WebGUI: translation * r9769 /translations/German/German/ (4 files): Update from translation server	22:09
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--- Day changed Sun Mar 08 2009
+perlDreamer	preaction: any suggestions on where to buy good office furniture?	00:00
+perlDreamer	Sauder's Orchard Hill computer desk with hutch looks nice	01:01
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CIA-46	WebGUI: translation * r9770 /translations/Russian/Russian/ (17 files): Update from translation server	03:19
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--- Log opened Sun Mar 08 17:10:54 2009
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--- Log opened Mon Mar 09 09:56:47 2009
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CIA-46	WebGUI: yung * r9774 /WebGUI/ (7 files in 5 dirs): changed screenshots in Matrix Listing view to popup	13:25
CIA-46	WebGUI: yung * r9775 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (7 files in 5 dirs): changed screenshots in Matrix Listing view to popup	13:25
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CIA-46	WebGUI: paul * r9776 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm: Documentation bug in buildArrayRefOfHashRefs	17:06
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+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: have you ever looked at the Survey-Rfe branch?	18:09
+perlDreamer	no	18:09
+perlDreamer	maybe	18:09
+perlDreamer	yes	18:10
+perlmonkey2	heh	18:10
+perlDreamer	uh, no	18:10
+perlDreamer	let me check	18:10
+perlmonkey2	no need to look	18:10
+perlmonkey2	it is just a branch to implement RFE's on the Survey.	18:10
+perlDreamer	I know	18:10
+perlDreamer	I have a checkout of it	18:10
+perlDreamer	I was trying to remember in which branch I built all those tests	18:11
+perlDreamer	I think it was HEAD	18:11
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juan	During a upgrade from 7.5.40 to 7.6, i have the next errors	18:19
juan	http://webgui.pastebin.com/m28a9cd80	18:19
juan	really i don't know what happened? how can i fix them?	18:20
@Haarg	that should have only happened if you ran the upgrade and it failed prior to that	18:30
@Haarg	was that from your first run up the upgrade?	18:30
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juan	Haarg, the site was in 7.5.34, i upgrade from it to 7.5.40 without problems	18:38
@Haarg	what was your exact upgrade path? including any false steps you took.	18:38
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juan	i downloaded the package, then i extracted then in a temporal location, then i read the gotcha, then a put the files in the specific location, restarted apache, executed testEnvironment.pl and then the upgrade.pl	18:42
juan	finally i restarted apache	18:43
@Haarg	ok	18:44
juan	i have upgraded some sites to 7.6 and this is the first time that i have those errors	18:44
@Haarg	one case that can happen is that if you extract a newer version first, then extract an older version over it	18:44
@Haarg	the upgrade script will have problems	18:45
@Haarg	you might try going into the database and doing 'select * from webguiVersion'	18:48
@Haarg	and putting it on pastebin	18:48
juan	ok	18:49
juan	give me a minute	18:49
+perlmonkey2	How do you create a single pkg merge when you have several templates you need to put into the upgrade path?	18:49
@Haarg	why not have multiple packages?	18:50
juan	http://webgui.pastebin.com/m3c2b045f	18:53
@Haarg	looks like your upgrade to 7.5.40 didn't work correctly	18:58
juan	actually the site is in 7.5.34	19:00
@Haarg	ok	19:00
@Haarg	so if you try to upgrade to 7.5.40, then try to upgrade to 7.6.x, it fails?	19:00
juan	i upgrade to 7.5.40 without problems	19:01
juan	the problems are from 7.5.40 to 7.6	19:02
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@Haarg	can you try a 'describe assetHistory' on your current db?	19:06
juan	yes	19:07
juan	the table has 4 fields (assetId,userId,dateStamp,actionTaken)	19:08
@Haarg	which is correct for that version	19:10
juan	yes	19:10
@Haarg	so you performed the 7.5.40 and 7.6.x upgrades as distinct steps?	19:10
@Haarg	and which 7.6 version were you trying to go to?	19:11
juan	7.6.11	19:11
juan	in 7.5.40 that table could have the same estructure	19:12
@Haarg	yes	19:12
juan	ok	19:12
juan	i am going to upgrade to 7.5.40 and then will check the database for that table before upgrading to 7.6	19:13
@Haarg	be sure to watch the upgrade process closely for errors	19:14
juan	ok	19:14
+perlDreamer	Haarg, the assetHistory thing is in there twice	19:15
+perlDreamer	but they're on different paths	19:15
--- Log opened Mon Mar 09 19:59:24 2009
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CIA-46	WebGUI: translation * r9779 /translations/Russian/Russian/ (13 files): Update from translation server	20:12
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, I needed to make two small changes to Keyword for the StoryManager.	20:46
@Haarg	oh?	20:46
+perlDreamer	for reference rev 9780 in the StoryManager branch	20:46
+perlDreamer	change 1: allow number of rows per page to be set for pagination	20:46
+perlDreamer	change 2: add lineage to the sort when getMatchingAssets	20:46
+perlDreamer	#2 makes testing much easier	20:46
+perlDreamer	since assets are always returned in a predictable order	20:47
* perlDreamer goes running		20:47
@Haarg	ok, that doesn't impact the changes i have pending	20:47
* perlDreamer is back, cuz his partner is late		20:50
+perlDreamer	Haarg: phew.	20:51
@Haarg	aside from the quotes -> comma change	20:52
@Haarg	i'm adding a method for finding keywords	20:52
@Haarg	by lineage and/or by searching	20:52
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9780 /branch/WebGUI_Story/lib/WebGUI/Keyword.pm:	20:54
CIA-46	WebGUI: Add a new option for getMatchingAssets to set the number of rows	20:54
CIA-46	WebGUI: per page.	20:54
CIA-46	WebGUI: Add another sort clause to make testing easier.	20:54
* perlDreamer kicks himself for not understanding WebGUI version control, yet again, and goes running.		20:56
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* deafferret kicks himself for running out of bacon, and eats a gallon of hummus		21:14
SDuensin	Whoa! I might have the strongest WebGUI holdout I've run into so far ready to convert. :-)	21:41
ckotil	nice	21:43
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+perlDreamer	SDuensin, the heathen and the infidel must both be converted!	22:45
SDuensin	I got him a demo site on my server and he's reading the Primer.	22:47
ckotil	i know a guy who runs the chicago drupal group. ive been trying to convert him for years	22:47
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+perlDreamer	bacon + hummus is good, deafferret	23:05
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SynQ2	hi there	23:09
+perlDreamer	SynQ2: howdy :)	23:11
+MrHairgrease	hi synq	23:11
elnino	Hey SynQ2 - there are two of you...	23:12
+MrHairgrease	haarg which YAML lib do I want for wgd?	23:12
+MrHairgrease	YAML::XS?	23:12
@Haarg	yeah, that's the best one	23:12
+MrHairgrease	thought so	23:12
+MrHairgrease	since it's on top of the list	23:12
+MrHairgrease	thanks	23:12
@Haarg	will be nice once the next version of YAML.pm comes out	23:12
+perlDreamer	is there a due date for that?	23:13
@Haarg	it will work similar to how JSON.pm works now, automatically chosing the perl or xs version based on what is available	23:13
@Haarg	not that i know	23:13
+MrHairgrease	shouldn't META.yml refelct the YAML requirement btw?	23:13
@Haarg	probably	23:13
@Haarg	although i don't think there's a good way to have alternate dependancies	23:14
+MrHairgrease	ok	23:15
+MrHairgrease	so how does the edit function work?	23:15
+perlDreamer	Should WebGUI::Keyword let us pick the form variable used in the tag cloud?	23:15
+perlDreamer	wgd edit Template <--- make a new template	23:16
+perlDreamer	wgd edit assetUrl <--- edit the asset by URL	23:16
+MrHairgrease	the changes I made don't seem to be saved to the db	23:16
+perlDreamer	wgd edit assetId <---- edit by id	23:16
+MrHairgrease	pd: yeah, tried that	23:16
+MrHairgrease	oh wait	23:16
+MrHairgrease	it's in an autotag	23:16
+MrHairgrease	awesome!	23:17
+MrHairgrease	gotta go now	23:17
@Haarg	it didn't get committed?	23:17
+MrHairgrease	no	23:17
@Haarg	hm	23:17
@Haarg	it should use a named tag and commit it for you	23:18
@Haarg	perlDreamer, i added a function to the keyword module to allow you to specify a callback for generating the urls on the cloud	23:18
@Haarg	i should hopefully have that committed in the next day or so	23:18
+perlDreamer	Haarg, that's perfect	23:19
+cap10morgan	Why is there a delay between spectre.pl --status reporting all zeroes and workflow instances being cleared out of the database (so singletons can run again, for example)? Is that normal?	23:20
* perlDreamer wonders if MrHairgrease has autocommit turned on		23:20
@Haarg	yeah, i haven't tested with autocommit so that could interfere	23:20
@preaction	cap10morgan: is spectre connecting to the site/	23:20
@Haarg	i should probably check that	23:20
+cap10morgan	preaction: connectivity tests pass	23:21
@Haarg	since i need to export pages for each keyword for my project, there are two url forms i'm using	23:21
@Haarg	i figured a callback was the best way to handle that	23:21
+MrHairgrease	no autocommit on this site indeed	23:21
@Haarg	with autocommit off it should work properly	23:21
@preaction	cap10morgan: dunno then	23:21
+cap10morgan	preaction: so that's not normal behavior?	23:22
@preaction	i don't know	23:22
+cap10morgan	ok, gotcha	23:22
+cap10morgan	hmm...	23:22
+perlDreamer	it will. It will request the commit, which uses the default commit method.	23:22
+perlDreamer	so no autocommit unless it is turned on	23:22
@Haarg	i haven't tested with all the possibilitied for autocommit, but i would expect it would work with all of them	23:22
+perlDreamer	Haarg, it is doing the right thing, but it is not autocommitting	23:23
@Haarg	well	23:23
@Haarg	if it shows as an autotag	23:23
@Haarg	that leads me to believe it is not being named properly	23:24
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9781 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (4 files in 4 dirs):	23:24
CIA-46	WebGUI: Complete rework of Story autocommit.	23:24
CIA-46	WebGUI: Tests for status of Stories that have been autocommitted.	23:24
CIA-46	WebGUI: Keyword search interface with UI and tests.	23:24
+cap10morgan	If I restart spectre, then they clear out pretty quickly.	23:24
@Haarg	which means the version tag creation wgd does didn't work properly	23:24
+MrHairgrease	haarg i'm using the bazaar version, not that on github	23:25
+MrHairgrease	maybe there's a discrepancy	23:25
@Haarg	possibly	23:26
@Haarg	i would recommend the github version	23:26
+MrHairgrease	just to prevent wild goose chases	23:26
@Haarg	i should probably push out 0.3	23:26
+MrHairgrease	i'll check it out wednesday	23:26
+MrHairgrease	still, a cool app	23:26
+perlDreamer	Haarg, I just tested with Commit Comments On, Multiple version tags per user, and Commit with Approval. It worked fine.	23:27
@Haarg	cool	23:27
+MrHairgrease	must be something at my devbox then	23:29
+MrHairgrease	anyway...	23:29
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@Haarg	the single version tag per user or single tag per site case is probably something that could be handled better	23:30
* perlDreamer is not a big fan of the new VersionTag modes.		23:30
+perlDreamer	I know they're great for SwiftySite	23:31
+perlDreamer	but they're untested	23:31
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+perlDreamer	good read: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2009/03/07/how-to-successfully-compete-with-open-source-software/	23:43
+perlDreamer	"OSS concentrates on the software, not the problems the software can solve"	23:43
@preaction	uh... sounds like poorly-managed software to me	23:47
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--- Day changed Tue Mar 10 2009
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9782 /branch/WebGUI_Story/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/StoryArchive.pm: Fix searching by keyword via the form.	00:01
+perlDreamer	one of these days I'm going to remember that getLineage != get('lineage')	00:23
+perlDreamer	but apparently not today :(	00:24
@Haarg	i haven't screwed that up before, similar ones have annoyed me	00:25
@Haarg	like getUrl, or form->getName	00:25
+perlDreamer	but those work and do what you think they should do	00:26
@Haarg	somewhat	00:27
@Haarg	getUrl doesn't to ->get('url')	00:27
@Haarg	and getName vs get('name') is the form type name vs the form element name attribute	00:29
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+perlDreamer	no, you're right. getUrl does more than get('url')	00:37
+perlDreamer	and Form->getName should be something more like getFormName, so getName would to do the right thing	00:37
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+perlDreamer	it would appear that the update method does not update the search index	01:15
+perlDreamer	that is only updated when addRevision is called	01:16
@Haarg	isn't it only on commit?	01:16
+perlDreamer	you're right. I saw it in AssetVersioning and assumed is was addRev	01:17
@Haarg	something i'm going to working on after my current project	01:17
@Haarg	is modifying update to use the form api	01:17
@Haarg	hopefully that doesn't break everything	01:18
+perlDreamer	what's the advantage in that?	01:18
@Haarg	well	01:18
@Haarg	currently update uses the default value from definition for when there is no value	01:18
@Haarg	but sometimes that default value is meant to be consumed by the forms api	01:19
@Haarg	like if it is an array	01:19
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@Haarg	so in that case, it would stick a busted value in the database	01:19
@Haarg	this is related the the template parser class problem that wgd edit has	01:20
+perlDreamer	like the thing we saw with making a template from scratch	01:20
+perlDreamer	yeah	01:20
@Haarg	also, it would make some things more sensible	01:21
+perlDreamer	What do you think about update calling indexContent?	01:21
@Haarg	currently, there are at least two places (possibly three) that handle picking the default value for when the value isn't specified	01:21
@Haarg	i think it's a bad idea	01:22
@Haarg	indexing is slow	01:22
+perlDreamer	I'm almost positive I've seen asset code that calls update after commit	01:22
+perlDreamer	or addRev, which can call autocommit	01:22
@Haarg	possibly, but if it doesn't reindex in that case it is the asset's fault	01:23
@Haarg	addRevision never auto commits directly	01:23
@Haarg	if you have a check list form element with some checked by default, it's not possible to have them all unchecked	01:23
@Haarg	because even though the form control provides for that	01:23
@Haarg	update sees the empty value and stuffs the default in	01:24
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CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9783 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Search interface, in addition to the default view and the keywords view.	01:43
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9784 /WebGUI/docs/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix a typo in the Default gallery view template	01:43
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9785 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/docs/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Backporting default gallery album view template fix.	01:43
CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9786 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt: More bug docs for the template.	01:43
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CIA-46	WebGUI: colin * r9787 /branch/WebGUI_Story/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Story.pm:	02:40
CIA-46	WebGUI: The URL for the story was changing when the story was edited. The initial	02:40
CIA-46	WebGUI: URL was based on the current asset, which is the Archive instead of the Folder.	02:40
CIA-46	WebGUI: (Archive hands off to Folder in addChild).	02:40
CIA-46	WebGUI: On following edits, no URL was passed, so one was built from the parent, which	02:40
CIA-46	WebGUI: is the Folder.	02:40
CIA-46	WebGUI: Fix this by passing in the existing URL as an hidden form param.	02:40
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CIA-46	WebGUI: translation * r9788 /translations/German/German/Asset_Search.pm: Update from translation server	12:43
CIA-46	WebGUI: translation * r9789 /translations/German/German/ (Asset_SQLReport.pm Asset_Thingy.pm): Update from translation server	12:43
CIA-46	WebGUI: translation * r9790 /translations/Dutch/ (Dutch/Account_Inbox.pm Dutch.pm): Update from translation server	12:43
+BartJol	hee	12:45
+BartJol	I didn't do any translations	12:45
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+BartJol	preaction is there a reason that 7.6.14 isn't announced?	13:04
+BartJol	Haarg: maybe you're the more appropiate person to ask that	13:08
+BartJol	although prolly sleeping	13:08
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+BartJol	plainhao: you're pb right, why isn't 7.6.14 announced?	13:38
* plainhao has no idea, d'oh.		13:38
+BartJol	oh	13:39
+BartJol	well, the upgrading went smooth	13:39
* plainhao is glad of that.		13:40
+BartJol	well, I'll ask graham when he's awake	13:40
+BartJol	thanks	13:40
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+BartJol	Haarg: is there a specific reason 7.6.14 isn't announced?	16:30
+BartJol	and goodmorning	16:30
@Haarg	no	16:31
@Haarg	i'm not sure how that got missed	16:31
+BartJol	ok, just wondering, did the upgrade anyway	16:31
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CIA-46	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r91c7a82 / lib/WGDev/Command/Base.pm : adding API docs for WGDev::Command::Base - http://bit.ly/YaHeo	18:39
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carogray	does anyone know if there is a limit to the size file we can upload to a PlainBlack server? We have a 29MB PDF that we would like to make available for people to download	18:52
+perlDreamer	carogray, that would be best asked on PlainBlack's support forum	18:52
carogray	k - will do	18:54
carogray	thanks	18:55
+perlmonkey2	At 9600 baud, you need to check the buffer 15 times a second with a 64 byte buffer?	19:02
+perlmonkey2	whusp	19:02
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2: should be faster than that, even	19:03
+perlDreamer	9600/64 > 15	19:03
+perlDreamer	unless I'm missing a factor of 8 in the baud to bytes conversion rate	19:04
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: 9600 baud is about 1000 bytes per second depending on your bit switch settings.	19:04
+perlmonkey2	parity, data lenghts and stop bit.	19:05
+perlDreamer	right	19:05
+perlDreamer	I've only ever done 7N1	19:05
+perlmonkey2	8N1 is what my libs default to and seemed good enough to me :P	19:06
+perlmonkey2	and by good enough, I mean, I have no idea about the pros and cons of changing them :P	19:06
+perlmonkey2	but 7N1 would be faster, so you were right.	19:06
+perlmonkey2	but the buffer is in bytes, and the 9600 is in bauds.	19:07
+perlmonkey2	wait, 7n1 would be 7 bit bytes. That would be very annoying.	19:08
+perlDreamer	isn't sending ASCII wonderful?	19:09
+perlmonkey2	ah, I see your point.	19:10
+perlmonkey2	I was thinking of sending floats and longs and trying to reconstitute them.	19:10
+perlDreamer	no, 8N1 would be better for that. Much less effort on the receiver, and well worth the 12.5% decrease in throughput	19:11
+perlmonkey2	12.5%....well I could have lived with 12.4%, but that is just over the top :P	19:12
+perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: just found this....prepare for your world to be rocked: http://www.pachube.com/	19:20
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+perlDreamer	This is totally, SkyNet, dude.	19:22
+perlDreamer	work of the devil	19:22
+perlmonkey2	:D	19:23
SDuensin	Anyone want to kill one of my customers?	19:38
+perlDreamer	have SkyNet do it	19:38
+perlDreamer	it has access to your customer's location and electricity usage	19:39
SDuensin	Ok, I have a question for all you perl* named people.	19:39
SDuensin	I modified the Shelf Wobject to make some minor changes...	19:40
SDuensin	Now I need to add the ability to sort the products it finds...	19:41
SDuensin	I'm not using the Summary field of the product, so I was going to just put some numeric value in that field...	19:41
SDuensin	Now how do I actually sort the $keywordBasedAssetIds before feeding them to the template?	19:42
SDuensin	Er, sorting by the value in the summary field, that is.	19:42
* perlDreamer recommends building a table in the template, and then using YUI DataTable in the progressive enhancement mode.		19:43
+perlDreamer	SDuensin, the assetIds are returned in order of creation date from WebGUI::Keyword	19:43
+perlmonkey2	persistance is an issue when you do it on the client side though.	19:43
+perlDreamer	any sorting beyond that has to be done after the fact, by hand	19:43
+perlDreamer	SDuensin, do you expect to have enough products to paginate?	19:44
SDuensin	perlDreamer - Crazy customer doesn't care what order they come back in. She wants them in random, yet specific, order according to some algorithm only she apparently knows.	19:44
SDuensin	We paginate like mad.	19:44
+perlDreamer	in that case, you're stuck with manual sorting of assets, before they're passed down to the template	19:45
SDuensin	Yep. I hate this woman.	19:45
+perlDreamer	is this the jewelry store shop?	19:46
SDuensin	Yes.	19:47
+perlmonkey2	I've looked into the bowls of the paginator and it strikes fear into my heart.	19:47
SDuensin	Is the summary field used in the product? Before I go stomping on it?	19:48
+perlDreamer	it's just available as data to the templates	19:50
+perlDreamer	it's included in the search index	19:50
SDuensin	OK, good.	19:50
+perlDreamer	so you really can't stomp on it	19:51
SDuensin	Oh, I bet I could. :-P	19:52
* perlDreamer will not doubt SDuensin's stomping ability in the future ;)		19:53
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+perlDreamer	I hate the private bug feature in the Bug tracker.	20:19
+perlDreamer	I'll give any PB staffer 5K karma if you fix the front page bug report to hide private bugs	20:20
SDuensin	But what if a porn site finds a bug? :-P	20:20
+perlDreamer	it doesn't have to be private	20:20
+perlDreamer	if it's private, then only staff can read (and therefore fix) the bug	20:21
@Haarg	on this perlDreamer? http://www.webgui.org/participate	20:21
+perlDreamer	yup	20:21
@Haarg	should be fixed	20:30
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+perlDreamer	thanks, Haarg	20:32
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+perlDreamer	does git pull remote pull all branches from remote, or just the current one?	20:39
deafferret	git is full repo on every client	20:46
deafferret	so I hear. I don't use git yet	20:46
@Haarg	i believe it pulls all the branches by default, but it depends on how it is configured	20:46
deafferret	that's the first time I've heard that rumor. :)	20:47
* deafferret files that rumor in $brain		20:47
@Haarg	you don't have to have the full repo on every client, but you usually do because there's little reason not to	20:47
+perlDreamer	I tried just git pull remote, and it gave me a spiel about merging.	20:49
@Haarg	well	20:49
+perlDreamer	I either need more client side config, or I just avoid a massive branch merge :)	20:49
@Haarg	git pull is git fetch + git merge	20:49
@Haarg	you can also tell it to do a rebase instead	20:50
@Haarg	if that is more applicable	20:50
@Haarg	i really need to get my it repo rebuilt tonight	21:01
@Haarg	*git	21:01
@Haarg	i can't use the 7.6 branch with it until i do	21:01
+perlDreamer	will PB's webgui repo contain all the history, all the way back to sourceforge and cvs?	21:03
+perlDreamer	(git repo, that is)	21:03
@Haarg	yes	21:03
@Haarg	and the tarballs from before it was in cvs	21:04
+perlDreamer	wow	21:04
+perlDreamer	that is old	21:04
+perlDreamer	how did you manage that?	21:04
@Haarg	http://update.webgui.org/0.x.x/	21:05
@Haarg	cvs only goes back to 3.something iirc	21:06
+perlDreamer	I mean, did you manually seed the repo with the tarballs and check them in by hand?	21:06
@Haarg	well, it's scripted	21:06
@Haarg	http://gist.github.com/77075	21:08
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+perlDreamer	what is qv?	21:10
@Haarg	from version	21:10
@Haarg	makes a version object	21:10
+perlDreamer	I couldn't find that in perlfunc or perlop	21:10
@Haarg	so i can sort them easily	21:10
+perlDreamer	ah, it comes from version	21:11
@Haarg	initially it was planned to be a quoting construct like q/qq/qw	21:11
@Haarg	that didn't work out though	21:11
+perlDreamer	version objects have had a long and bumpy history	21:13
@Haarg	yeah	21:13
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@Haarg	i tracked down the problem with the username not showing in emailed inbox messages	21:17
+perlDreamer	cool! Was it in the inbox code?	21:17
@Haarg	yeah, between there and the i18n message	21:18
+perlDreamer	double tragedy. There's leftover gravy, but no biscuits. And there's spaghetti, but no sauce.	21:27
* perlDreamer is hungry, but not desperate to try to bridge that gap		21:28
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