| --- Log opened Thu Jan 01 00:00:54 2009 |
| -!- daviddelikat [n=daviddel@h69-129-206-153.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #WebGUI | 00:02 |
| daviddelikat | anybody know what exactly causes the blue site maintenance screen? and how to turn it off? | 00:25 |
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| daviddelikat | http://delikat.homeip.net:8080/ | 00:25 |
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| @preaction | daviddelikat: it's in the site settings. check sbin/maintenanceMode.pl to see how it works (and how to turn it off) | 00:58 |
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| daviddelikat | thanks I figured it out... | 01:10 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: colin * r9122 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Backported old fix for Gallery pagination and layout in IE. | 03:09 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: colin * r9123 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): | 18:27 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: Fix a bug where the Album would try to delete assets that do not exist | 18:27 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: from its cache. This would cause various operations to fail, including | 18:27 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: the Asset Manager. | 18:27 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: colin * r9124 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): | 18:27 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: Forward port Album cache delete/DESTROY issue with non-existant | 18:27 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: keys in the cache. | 18:28 |
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| --- Day changed Fri Jan 02 2009 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: jt * r9125 /experimental/Automat/sbin/migration/ (3 files): extra migration scripts | 01:15 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: jt * r9126 /experimental/Automat/ (12 files in 4 dirs): | 03:02 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: added recent changes | 03:02 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: added stats | 03:02 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: jt * r9127 /experimental/Automat/lib/Automat/ (Site.pm Server.pm): added billing notification | 04:09 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: jt * r9128 /experimental/Automat/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Automat.pm: rearrange some things | 04:09 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: jt * r9129 /experimental/Automat/ (2 files in 2 dirs): | 04:09 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: more rearranging | 04:09 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: update notification | 04:09 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: colin * r9130 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/Help.pm: Fix a typo in the POD for Operation/Help. | 08:54 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: colin * r9131 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/International.pm: Add more characters that are legal in i18n keys. | 08:54 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: colin * r9132 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (i18n/English/Asset_Matrix.pm Help/Asset_MatrixListing.pm): Fix missing Help docs in the Matrix. | 08:54 |
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| SynQ | hey there BOB | 11:30 |
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| SynQ | happy new year | 11:30 |
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| SynQ | to all the guys at alphamega | 11:30 |
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| SynQ | from all the guys at procolix | 11:30 |
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| AMH_bob | Thank you very much! | 12:00 |
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| danny_mk | happy new year everyone | 17:59 |
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| +perlDreamer | Happy new year, danny_mk! | 18:00 |
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| danny_mk | OK, got a question about the permission system. This ticket: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/can-see-edit-tab-even-tho-i-am-not-logged-in shows it as resolved | 18:09 |
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| danny_mk | however, I seem to have problems with the Visitor account having edit access to the wiki even when I have assigned a private group to the wiki | 18:09 |
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| +perlDreamer | okay | 18:09 |
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| +perlDreamer | which version of WebGUI? | 18:10 |
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| +perlDreamer | and 2nd question, can you make a demo site do this? | 18:10 |
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| danny_mk | 7.5.34-stable | 18:11 |
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| danny_mk | Hmmm... I will upgrade to latest now | 18:11 |
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| +perlDreamer | yeah, that bug was fixed in 7.5.35 | 18:12 |
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| +perlDreamer | danny_mk, almost all (> 90%) of all bugs have the bug id in the changelog for easy searching | 18:15 |
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| +perlDreamer | Happy New Year, dionak. | 18:20 |
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| danny_mk | I looked through all the current bugs and there is no permission problem listed | 18:30 |
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| +perlDreamer | it's been closed | 18:30 |
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| danny_mk | I upgraded to 7.5.37-stable and the visitor user still has edit capabilities on the Wiki pages and can see content placed on a private group | 18:31 |
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| +perlDreamer | okay, let me setup a 7.5.37 site | 18:31 |
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| danny_mk | you know the weird thing is that my upgraded site (been up 4 years) has no problem with permissions, the site I am having problems with is a new install | 18:32 |
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| +perlDreamer | hmmm... | 18:33 |
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| danny_mk | The visitor on this new site has a bunch of "Pending versions" Visitor / 10/20/2008 8:30 am (Autotag) | 18:36 |
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| danny_mk | frustrating, but I don't want to look into the code, way too much work :-( | 18:36 |
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| +perlDreamer | I think I may know the problem | 18:36 |
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| +perlDreamer | I confirmed that an upgraded site works okay | 18:37 |
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| +perlDreamer | now trying a new site | 18:37 |
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| +perlDreamer | the problem is a package that didn't seem to get into the 7.5.35 release | 18:43 |
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| danny_mk | OK. I also tried a new site at: http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1230913687_975/home/wiki-test/ | 18:43 |
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| danny_mk | and it seems to have the right behavior | 18:44 |
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| danny_mk | do you have a patch? | 18:44 |
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| +perlDreamer | I can show you where to get it | 18:44 |
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| danny_mk | cool | 18:44 |
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| +perlDreamer | this URL should get you the updated template that will hide the edit tab unless you can edit the wiki page | 18:48 |
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| +perlDreamer | https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/checkout/branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/upgrades/packages-7.5.38/default-wiki-page.wgpkg?rev=9106 | 18:48 |
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| +perlDreamer | just import that package and all should be well | 18:49 |
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| +perlDreamer | and the problem itself will be fixed in 7.5.38 | 18:50 |
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| danny_mk | Hmmm... that will work for the wiki, but what about page permissions? | 18:56 |
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| +perlDreamer | I don't understand. Are you saying that Visitor is also allowed to view pages that he should not? | 18:57 |
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| danny_mk | yes, on this new site it does | 18:57 |
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| danny_mk | I tried the test website above and it does not have this problem | 18:58 |
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| danny_mk | let me try a couple of other things and I will let you know how it turns out | 18:58 |
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| danny_mk | thank you for your help | 18:58 |
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| +perlDreamer | Just to double check. Create a new site (no upgrades). Add a wiki, set privacy to only Registered Users. Create a wiki page. Log out, view wiki as Visitor and visit the page. | 18:58 |
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| danny_mk | Damn, setting up a new site on the server works perfect | 19:45 |
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| +perlDreamer | I hate infrequent, random bugs | 19:45 |
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| danny_mk | I have to dig into this issue deeper, I have put a lot of content on my established site | 19:46 |
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| danny_mk | don't want to do that again | 19:46 |
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| +perlDreamer | if it was a permissions issue, then version control will save you | 19:46 |
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| +perlDreamer | just delete any questionable versions | 19:46 |
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| +perlDreamer | if it was a setup issue, you can use the AssetManager to change all the values at once | 19:46 |
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| +perlDreamer | I don't think you're at too much risk | 19:46 |
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| danny_mk | Well, I aways do a full backup of the database and directory when I upgrade | 19:47 |
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| danny_mk | thank you for your help, at least now I know it is not WebGUI but an issue with that particular installation | 19:48 |
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| +perlDreamer | if you need more help, just holler | 19:48 |
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| danny_mk | thank you. later... | 19:48 |
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| +BartJol | happy newyear! | 20:46 |
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| +perlDreamer | Happy New Year, BartJol! | 20:46 |
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| +BartJol | tnx | 20:47 |
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| +BartJol | had a nice evening? | 20:47 |
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| +perlDreamer | Yes | 20:48 |
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| +perlDreamer | Went to a friend's house with wife and kids and watched Kung Fu Panda until late. | 20:48 |
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| +perlDreamer | What did you do? | 20:48 |
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| +BartJol | I was in the Belgium woods, something with a lot of beer, must be surprising ;) | 20:48 |
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| +perlDreamer | what, you _AND_ beer? No.... | 20:49 |
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| +BartJol | We were with some friends | 20:49 |
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| +perlDreamer | you __AND__ friends and beer? | 20:49 |
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| +BartJol | I know, it's irresponsiible | 20:49 |
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| +BartJol | we only broke 5 glasses | 20:49 |
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| +BartJol | yesterday we spend getting rid of our hangovers, I didn't know hangover were like chins: you can have multiple of both | 20:51 |
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| +perlDreamer | it's just your liver and brain trying to get even | 20:52 |
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| +BartJol | have to go, there's food! | 20:53 |
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| * BartJol is eatinf | 20:53 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: colin * r9133 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): Safe handling for Image form fields in the editThing field preview. | 22:08 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: colin * r9134 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): Fix preview of Image fields in the editThing screen. | 22:08 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: colin * r9135 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm: Thingy i18n for edit, delete buttons created in code. | 22:08 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: colin * r9136 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm: i18n Edit and Delete buttons created in code. | 22:08 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: translation * r9137 /translations/ (165 files in 3 dirs): Update from translation server | 22:37 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: colin * r9138 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (Form/Attachments.pm i18n/English/WebGUI.pm): i18n the Attachments Form control | 23:36 |
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| --- Day changed Sat Jan 03 2009 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: colin * r9139 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (i18n/English/Asset_Calendar.pm Asset/Wobject/Calendar.pm): Calendar i18n | 00:26 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: colin * r9140 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Shop/Transaction.pm: I18n'ed a submit button in the manage transactions screen. | 00:26 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: colin * r9141 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Shop/Transaction.pm: Fix a syntax error made in the i18n of the search button. | 00:26 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: colin * r9142 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Only resize photos if they are larger than the Gallery resolutions. | 00:26 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: colin * r9143 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Backport gallery photo resolutions fix. | 00:26 |
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| +perlDreamer | patspam, I'm not sure that "Send Queued Email Messages Every 5 Minutes" is any better than "Delete temp files older than 24 hours" | 00:26 |
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| patspam | hmm and i guess "daily/weekly/month maintenance" is pretty bad too | 00:28 |
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| +perlDreamer | yeah, as preconfigured, default, comes with WebGUI they work okay, since what they say is what they do | 00:29 |
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| +perlDreamer | but if they're reconfigured by the user then they could be misleading | 00:29 |
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| +perlDreamer | however, they could also edit the title at the same time | 00:29 |
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| patspam | yeah, feel free to close that bug, i was just being pedantic | 00:29 |
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| +perlDreamer | okay | 00:30 |
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| +perlDreamer | it's been a weird day for bugs | 00:30 |
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| +perlDreamer | Found a bug in Data::Dumper | 00:30 |
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| patspam | ouch | 00:31 |
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| +perlDreamer | it's just cosmetic. | 00:31 |
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| +perlDreamer | it will alternately encode 8-bit characters as control characters, or as \x escapes | 00:31 |
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| patspam | this made me smile: http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/archives/2009/01/ie6_on_the_way.html | 00:33 |
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| +perlDreamer | any way we can extend that trend to IE*? ;) | 00:34 |
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| patspam | if only! | 00:34 |
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| @Haarg | perlDreamer, you have an example of that Data::Dumper issue? | 00:44 |
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| +perlDreamer | sure | 00:45 |
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| +perlDreamer | I'll email it to you. | 00:45 |
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| @Haarg | thanks | 00:45 |
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| +perlDreamer | it just alternates between literal 8-bit characters, and 8-bit characters encoded as hex escapes. | 00:46 |
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| +perlDreamer | the text works fine in both cases, but it's weird | 00:46 |
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| +perlDreamer | are you able to see it as well, Haarg? | 00:52 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: colin * r9144 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (6 files in 5 dirs): Remove the warnings pragma | 00:54 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: colin * r9145 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/lib/WebGUI/ (7 files in 5 dirs): Remove warnings pragma. | 00:54 |
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| @Haarg | it does fail yes | 00:54 |
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| @Haarg | part of that is because of Useqq | 00:57 |
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| +perlDreamer | no | 00:57 |
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| +perlDreamer | if you remove Useqq it just alternates differently | 00:58 |
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| @Haarg | what you sent doesn't have Useqq | 00:58 |
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| @Haarg | so adding it makes it closer | 00:58 |
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| @Haarg | but it is still different | 00:58 |
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| +perlDreamer | yes | 00:58 |
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| @Haarg | how was the first file generated? | 00:59 |
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| +perlDreamer | I snipped it by hand from the German translation | 01:01 |
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| +perlDreamer | which I downloaded from the i18n server | 01:01 |
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| +perlDreamer | see this bug: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/9308 | 01:02 |
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| @Haarg | it always wants to encode the chars the same way for me | 01:02 |
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| @Haarg | but the initial file has them in two forms | 01:03 |
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| -!- WebGUI is now known as SynQ | 01:03 |
| @Haarg | it looks like it is switching Useqq on and off | 01:04 |
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| +perlDreamer | internally? yes, it does. When it switches to the \x escape it has to use double quotes | 01:04 |
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| +perlDreamer | but it happens even when items aren't touched | 01:04 |
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| @Haarg | yeah, i guess it isn't using Useqq, but it is using double quotes in some cases anyway | 01:05 |
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| +perlDreamer | yeah, at first I thought that it was a Data::Dumper config problem, but after reading the docs I realized that there's no way to ask it to alter how it handles stuff. | 01:08 |
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| @Haarg | i think i figured it out | 01:12 |
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| @Haarg | it's not a data::dumper bug | 01:12 |
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| +perlDreamer | clue me in, dude | 01:12 |
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| @Haarg | when it writes out the single quote version | 01:12 |
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| @Haarg | it doesn't have the utf8 character | 01:13 |
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| @Haarg | it has the byte string | 01:13 |
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| @Haarg | the utf8 pragma in the file that is written means they both versions are read as characters instead of byte strings | 01:13 |
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| @Haarg | it is getting translated to the byte string when it gets sent to and from the browser | 01:14 |
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| +perlDreamer | in the test file, nothing is done to the data, but it still toggles back and forth | 01:14 |
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| @Haarg | does it? | 01:14 |
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| @Haarg | how are you testing that? | 01:15 |
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| @Haarg | it always wants to write the same thing for me | 01:15 |
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| +perlDreamer | let me set up a test that goes through another iteration of import and export. In the full translation CGI, they go back and forth and back and forth | 01:15 |
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| @Haarg | hrm | 01:15 |
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| @Haarg | there is definately something screwy here i guess | 01:16 |
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| +perlDreamer | you know, by looking at the file with vim, maybe something bad is happening... | 01:19 |
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| @Haarg | 'message' => 'Zur\xfcck zur Seite.' | 01:19 |
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| +perlDreamer | yeah, that's the hex encoding for a wide character | 01:19 |
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| @Haarg | that doesn't make a lot of sense though | 01:19 |
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| +perlDreamer | inside of a single quoted string? No. | 01:20 |
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| @Haarg | yeah | 01:20 |
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| +perlDreamer | but if you cat the file, it looks fine | 01:20 |
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| +perlDreamer | maybe it's just a display issue with Test::Differences | 01:20 |
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| @Haarg | i think it is | 01:20 |
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| +perlDreamer | well, on the 2nd iteration, everything passes | 01:28 |
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| +perlDreamer | which means that you were right earlier about the browser interaction | 01:28 |
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| +perlDreamer | how do we force UTF8 handling of the data from CGI->param? | 01:29 |
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| @Haarg | decode it ourselves | 01:29 |
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| +perlDreamer | that will fix it in the script, do we also need a fixup script for the data that's currently in various encodings? | 01:30 |
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| @Haarg | it shouldn't matter really | 01:30 |
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| @Haarg | all of the data is valid, just in different forms | 01:30 |
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| @Haarg | once it is changed and committed once it should be the 'proper' format | 01:31 |
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| @Haarg | as long as we have utf8 headers in what we are sending out it should always come back as a utf8 byte string | 01:31 |
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| +perlDreamer | what happens if it is already decoded? | 01:31 |
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| @Haarg | it won't be | 01:31 |
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| +perlDreamer | setNamespaceItems($cgi->param("namespace"),$cgi->param("tag"),decode_utf8($cgi->param("message"))); | 01:32 |
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| @Haarg | looks about right | 01:32 |
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| +perlDreamer | that's in there currently | 01:32 |
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| @Haarg | fun | 01:33 |
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| +perlDreamer | do we need to encode it manually on the way out then? | 01:34 |
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| +perlDreamer | since it's being decoded on the way in? | 01:34 |
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| @Haarg | i'm not sure | 01:35 |
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| @Haarg | with Useqq it sticks with the \374 form | 01:37 |
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| @Haarg | it still alternates without it though | 01:37 |
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| +perlDreamer | iirc, I was still seeing some \x{fc} when UseQQ | 01:37 |
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| +perlDreamer | and I didn't try that in the CGI | 01:38 |
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| +perlDreamer | I'll do that now | 01:38 |
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| @Haarg | after a couple loops though it goes with \374 and stays there | 01:38 |
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| @Haarg | http://rt.cpan.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=28607 | 01:38 |
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| @Haarg | i guess it must be a bug | 01:38 |
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| +perlDreamer | well, in any case it's not harmful for the i18n server | 01:40 |
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| +perlDreamer | just weird | 01:40 |
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| elnino | hi. I setup a store, using only cash, and I think someone mentioned this, but the only products I have are subscription, and someone said at one point that subscriptions can not be purchased with cash only stores. Was that fixed? I have 7.5.24 (I believe) | 04:36 |
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| elnino | Is there a way to setup the store to not track inventory? | 05:02 |
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| bernd_ | preaction, truly online or just your ghost? | 23:17 |
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| --- Day changed Sun Jan 04 2009 |
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| SynQ | would it be possible to run WebGUI on a 32MB NSLU2 arm system? | 00:58 |
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| SynQ | I wonder | 00:58 |
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| specsmu | hullo | 03:35 |
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| specsmu | I'm about to upgrade from version 6.8.6. Do I need to do all sorts of incremental upgrades, or can I follow the instructions? | 03:36 |
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| SynQ | yes | 03:37 |
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| SynQ | read the gotcha.txt | 03:37 |
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| specsmu | I take it I just asked a trick question. | 03:37 |
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| specsmu | what I'm asking is, I remember last time I did this, I had to do four different overwerites and upgrades in a row, or maybe more | 03:37 |
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| specsmu | if I just do the latest version and follow the instructions, I should be OK? | 03:37 |
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| SynQ | yes and no | 03:38 |
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| SynQ | you should read the gotcha.txt | 03:38 |
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| specsmu | I feel like I'm in Shroedinger's webgui. | 03:38 |
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| SynQ | and make damn sure you make backups | 03:38 |
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| SynQ | complete backups | 03:38 |
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| specsmu | backups alredy made. | 03:38 |
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| SynQ | 6.8.6 doesn't sound too bad to me | 03:39 |
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| specsmu | backed up the database, /home/WebGUI, and all of the wwwroots | 03:39 |
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| SynQ | perhaps there is something worth reading in the wiki about updates | 03:39 |
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| SynQ | and steps in between | 03:39 |
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| specsmu | well, here goes, I guess. at least I have backups. | 03:40 |
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| SynQ | good luck to you :) | 03:41 |
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| specsmu | thanks. I've been doing linux dministrationfor so long, this should only take me a day. | 03:41 |
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| specsmu | haha | 03:41 |
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| SynQ | hehe | 03:42 |
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| specsmu | "you need to upgrade to the latest 6.8 release before you can upgrade to 6.99" | 03:43 |
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| specsmu | oh, POO. | 03:43 |
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| specsmu | well, I hope you guys still have them... | 03:43 |
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| SynQ | sure | 03:43 |
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| SynQ | it's available | 03:43 |
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| specsmu | wow, where'd I get so many users from. :D | 03:46 |
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| specsmu | hope you don't mind if I sit around and make snarky comments while I do this, it makes it less stressful | 03:46 |
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| SynQ | go ahead | 03:47 |
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| SynQ | I love to be entertained :) | 03:47 |
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| specsmu | ahh, stephen sondheim | 03:47 |
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| specsmu | "let meeeee. entertain you..." | 03:48 |
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| specsmu | ok, upgrade to 6.8.9 starting | 03:48 |
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| specsmu | and there are some new gotchas btw that aren't documented. | 03:48 |
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| SynQ | did you clear the cache and the trash? | 03:48 |
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| specsmu | ehh. no. I gather I'm supposed to do that? | 03:48 |
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| SynQ | I reccomend it :) | 03:48 |
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| specsmu | I don't see instructions on how to do that. | 03:49 |
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| specsmu | looking.. | 03:49 |
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| SynQ | in the web interface | 03:50 |
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| SynQ | as administrator | 03:50 |
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| specsmu | ahhh. this is someone else's site, I haven't logged in in years | 03:50 |
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| specsmu | hehe | 03:50 |
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| SynQ | I don't envy you | 03:51 |
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| specsmu | me neither. :) | 03:51 |
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| specsmu | I don't envy the guy I'm upgrading once he sees the new admin colsole | 03:51 |
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| specsmu | I'm sure it's better, gbut it'll be a shock | 03:51 |
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| SynQ | it's different | 03:52 |
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| specsmu | heehee, I get tobe a BOFH while giving him what he's asking for | 03:52 |
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| SynQ | bastards are not really nice people though | 03:53 |
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| specsmu | didn't say I was | 03:53 |
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| specsmu | just that I can be mean and nice at the same time | 03:53 |
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| SynQ | I prefere the term LOFH | 03:53 |
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| SynQ | the Likable Operator From Heaven | 03:53 |
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| specsmu | that's no fun | 03:53 |
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| specsmu | harp --play | 03:53 |
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| SynQ | but it is | 03:53 |
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| specsmu | cloud --sit | 03:54 |
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| SynQ | you get to be liked and loved | 03:54 |
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| SynQ | ask colin :) | 03:54 |
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| specsmu | I've no idea how that feels | 03:54 |
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| specsmu | heh | 03:54 |
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| SynQ | Colin is one of TPBW | 03:55 |
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| specsmu | TPBW? | 03:55 |
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| specsmu | The Putatively Big Women? | 03:55 |
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| SynQ | hehehe | 03:55 |
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| SynQ | The People Behind WebGUI | 03:55 |
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| specsmu | oh. | 03:55 |
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| specsmu | I may have met him at SCALE | 03:56 |
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| specsmu | wow, load average 18... clearing the cache must be intensive. | 03:56 |
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| specsmu | more likely my machine is just way underpowered... they're going to put me on a faster one again tomorrow | 03:57 |
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| SynQ | do you use database caching | 03:57 |
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| SynQ | ? | 03:57 |
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| specsmu | I didn't think so, but apparently. | 03:57 |
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| SynQ | I'm going to go to bed soon | 04:01 |
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| specsmu | ok. | 04:01 |
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| specsmu | I guess I'll try to muddle this out | 04:02 |
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| specsmu | thanks for the help | 04:03 |
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| SynQ | my pleasure | 04:03 |
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| specsmu | well, this is lame. | 04:26 |
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| specsmu | internal server error and nothing at all getting dumped out to err. | 04:26 |
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| specsmu | ah, bit by POST_MAX again. | 04:31 |
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| elnino | HI. I'm looking at the navigation help in webgui, and wasn't seeing anything there that would help me count the number of children a page has. Is there a neat trick anyone knows? | 05:11 |
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| elnino | oh never mind. I should be using a different asset. | 05:12 |
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| specsmu | wow, what a mess. | 05:52 |
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| specsmu | !vi | 06:07 |
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| specsmu | oops | 06:07 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: colin * r9146 /WebGUI/t/Session/DateTime.t: Update test to match fixed code. | 06:08 |
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| specsmu | wow, either I'm doing something spectacularly wrong or the 0.99.5 upgrade script is spectacularly broken. | 06:09 |
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| specsmu | looks like it's the former. | 06:16 |
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| specsmu | hah. | 06:16 |
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| specsmu | AND the latter. | 06:32 |
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| specsmu | Parse::PlainConfig apparently now requires a read() where it didn't before. | 06:33 |
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| specsmu | and JSON is farked up too. | 06:35 |
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| specsmu | wow. this is so messed up.. | 08:09 |
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| specsmu | heh, trying to update the asset before the assetIndex is actually added to the database... how did this upgrade *ever* work? | 08:38 |
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| specsmu | hi radix | 09:06 |
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| Radix__ | hi specsmu :) | 09:55 |
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| specsmu | wow, where'd you come from | 09:55 |
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| specsmu | oh | 09:55 |
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| specsmu | I want to go on record as saying this workflow stuff is confusing thecrap out of me | 09:56 |
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| specsmu | I committed something, the changes disappeared, I can't click "edit" anymore | 09:56 |
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| Radix__ | Hmm.. it means that the changes haven't been processed yet - which may just mean it's a bit slow (can take a few seconds perhaps so try a refresh) | 09:57 |
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| specsmu | does spectre process the changes? | 09:58 |
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| Radix__ | Alternatively, it may mean that spectre isn't set up properly | 09:58 |
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| specsmu | yeah... :P | 09:58 |
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| Radix__ | in which case check your webgui.log and see what's going on | 09:58 |
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| Radix__ | are you using the wre? | 09:58 |
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| specsmu | no, right now I'm just trying toget an old version upgraded toa slightly less old version | 09:58 |
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| specsmu | and let me tell you | 09:58 |
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| specsmu | the upgrade scipts are BROKEN | 09:58 |
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| Radix__ | what version? | 09:59 |
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| specsmu | 6.8.10 to 6.99.0 | 09:59 |
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| specsmu | I had to manually modify the perl scripts to get it to work | 09:59 |
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| specsmu | not to mention... | 09:59 |
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| specsmu | it does NOT like the new version of PlainConfig | 09:59 |
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| specsmu | I had to hack the code to make it work | 09:59 |
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| Radix__ | Hmm.. you prolly need to talk to the PB guys then.. there's a specific way of upgrading with the older versions and I can never remember what it is | 10:00 |
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| specsmu | yeah, I think I've muddled through it | 10:00 |
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| Radix__ | I'm using 7.0.8 at work myself | 10:00 |
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| specsmu | it wiped my templates but otherwise I got out unscathed | 10:00 |
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| specsmu | oh... I think it worked | 10:01 |
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| specsmu | oh good, and I can edit again. | 10:01 |
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| Radix__ | cool :) | 10:02 |
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| specsmu | webgui has just gotten moreand more complicated | 10:02 |
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| specsmu | sigh | 10:02 |
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| specsmu | I reallyregret ever touching it but now I'm stuck with it | 10:02 |
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| Radix__ | I wish upgrades were easier myself | 10:03 |
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| specsmu | I don't even have the hang of adminning it | 10:03 |
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| specsmu | my client wanted to give me some time back so he tried hiring someone to do some work on it | 10:03 |
|---|
| specsmu | the person gave up in disgust | 10:03 |
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| specsmu | it was almost funny | 10:03 |
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| specsmu | I hope it's easier after the upgrades. | 10:08 |
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| specsmu | now THAT is odd. | 10:47 |
|---|
| specsmu | for some reason, suddenly it can't create new files and directories, even though the permissions are correct | 10:48 |
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| --- Day changed Mon Jan 05 2009 |
| -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-235-27.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui | 00:20 |
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| specsmu | well, after I got to 6.99.5, it's been much more uneventful. | 00:20 |
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| +perlDreamer | you can say that again | 00:20 |
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| specsmu | the upgrade from 6.8.6 to 6.99.5 is... TERRIBLE. | 00:21 |
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| specsmu | neither the upgrade code nor the actual code actually works out of the box on a modern system. | 00:21 |
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| +perlDreamer | post bugs about it | 00:22 |
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| specsmu | and even 7.2.3 needs modifications for thelatest JSON | 00:22 |
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| +perlDreamer | isn't that documented in the gotchas.txt file? | 00:22 |
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| specsmu | I don't think it's worth posting bugs for anything other thn the latest version | 00:22 |
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| specsmu | no. | 00:22 |
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| specsmu | maybe for newer versions. | 00:22 |
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| +perlDreamer | 7.2.3 isn't supposed to work with the latest JSON | 00:23 |
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| specsmu | well, I made it | 00:24 |
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| +perlDreamer | the JSON module went through an API rewrite which forced us to make changes to WebGUI | 00:24 |
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| specsmu | it's OK, I'm forcing the issue anyway | 00:24 |
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| specsmu | anything I have to do to make the pathwork | 00:24 |
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| specsmu | path work | 00:24 |
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| specsmu | heh, anyone who hasn't been doing this fro 12 years would probably be working on it into March. | 00:25 |
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| specsmu | if you just take out the autoconv and skipinvalid options anywhere they appear, it's enough to get it to working. | 00:27 |
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| +perlDreamer | that's why I suggested posting a bug. if anyone else has to do this, you'd be helping them out | 00:27 |
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| specsmu | hmm. maybe I will.. | 00:27 |
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| +perlDreamer | especially if you've already made workarounds for it | 00:28 |
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| specsmu | dunno if I'll remember every single one but I can probably do the major ones | 00:28 |
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| specsmu | I don't think WebGui needs enough perl modules. | 00:36 |
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| specsmu | there are still some written by a farmer in Elbonia that haven't been included. | 00:37 |
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| specsmu | oh wow, there's a farkup. | 00:45 |
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| specsmu | looks like 7.2.3 to 7.3.9 doesn't work. | 00:49 |
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| +perlDreamer | specsmu: what's the hiccup there? | 01:25 |
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| specsmu | the upgrade from 7.2.3 to 7.3.0 requires a field that's not put in until 7.3.8-7.3.9 | 01:27 |
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| specsmu | have to do 7.3.8 first | 01:27 |
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| specsmu | well, so far the modern updates are working well. | 01:40 |
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| specsmu | looks like 7.5.37 is the limit, anything later appears to be broke. | 02:09 |
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| elnino | hi. I'm gettting a bunch of "Apache/mod_proxy on localhost is down and could not be restarted. | 06:51 |
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| elnino | " what should I be looking at? | 06:51 |
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| elnino | The messsages are coming to me via email from WRE. | 06:53 |
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| specsmu | should see why apache won't start. | 06:54 |
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| elnino | apache is running I believe it's the mod_proxy. When I do a ps-aux, there are more mod_proxy than there are mod_perl listed which seems weird to me. We've added more sites to the servers, so maybe there is a limit of concurrent mod_* that can be running? | 06:56 |
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| specsmu | maybe.. I don't know anything about mod_proxy | 06:56 |
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| elnino | I don't really either, it's part of the wre and it makes webgui "go" | 06:56 |
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| elnino | I have six /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start | 07:01 |
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| elnino | 10 /data/wre/prereqs/bin/httpd -f /data/wre/etc/modperl.conf | 07:01 |
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| elnino | 11 /data/wre/prereqs/bin/httpd -f /data/wre/etc/modproxy.conf | 07:01 |
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| specsmu | have you looked in the error logs? | 07:01 |
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| elnino | yes, I have vague php errors without a date so I have no idea if they are releatd. | 07:02 |
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| elnino | that is in my apache error_log | 07:02 |
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| elnino | I haven't looked at the mod_proxy error log. going there now. | 07:02 |
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| elnino | mod proxy log only consists of warnings of "Session Cache is not configured [hint: SSLSessionCache]" | 07:04 |
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| elnino | mod perl is more interesting | 07:04 |
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| elnino | Apache2::SizeLimit httpd process too big | 07:05 |
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| elnino | exiting at SIZE=79864/100000 KB SHARE=1864/0 KB UNSHARED=78000/75000 KB REQUESTS=66 LIFETIME=13040 seconds | 07:05 |
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| specsmu | there you go. | 07:05 |
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| elnino | I have no idea what that means. other than somthing is too big... would you be able to point me to what settings I should be evaluating? | 07:06 |
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| specsmu | try finding documentation on Apache2::SizeLimit | 07:06 |
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| specsmu | it's probably something in the apache config | 07:06 |
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| specsmu | I don't know what though. | 07:06 |
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| elnino | ok. to google I go. | 07:07 |
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| +Radix-wrk | nah.. the sizelimit thing is normal | 07:15 |
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| specsmu | have you looked at the webgui error log? | 07:16 |
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| +Radix-wrk | it's set in apache itself to kill any apache2 processes that are getting too large (which they can do if there's memory leaks) | 07:16 |
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| elnino | I saw that in one of the threads on pb, but still looking around. | 07:16 |
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| elnino | I saw in an older mod_perl, that server reached MaxClients setting, consider raising the MaxClients setting | 07:16 |
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| elnino | that only showed up once. | 07:16 |
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| +Radix-wrk | the email you're getting is probably from the wremonitor | 07:16 |
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| elnino | yes | 07:16 |
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| specsmu | that just means requests might be dropped | 07:16 |
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| +Radix-wrk | it sounds like it's running.. just wremonitor is confused? | 07:17 |
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| +Radix-wrk | I haven't used the more recent versions.. but I've never been a big fan of wremonitor - never quite worked right for me | 07:17 |
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| elnino | right now, I'm stopping all services to see if there are any straggling processes around. Someone walked me thru this once before. Not sure exactly why I had to, but it "fixed" my problem then. | 07:17 |
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| +Radix-wrk | So apache won't start? | 07:18 |
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| +Radix-wrk | or mod-perl won't start? | 07:18 |
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| elnino | it's slow to stop them, still stopping. =) | 07:18 |
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| elnino | so something must be keeping it busy. I did this because I did notice in my webgui log | 07:18 |
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| elnino | ERROR - spectre.conf - POE::Kernel::_dispatch_event[1012] - typeerrors. | 07:19 |
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| elnino | so something seemed to have gone amuck with spectre? | 07:19 |
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| +Radix-wrk | Hmm.. sounds odd | 07:19 |
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| elnino | still stopping. wow. | 07:19 |
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| +Radix-wrk | sometimes a 'rm -rf /tmp/WebGUI' can help too | 07:20 |
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| +Radix-wrk | clears the cache | 07:20 |
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| +Radix-wrk | stop everything first tho | 07:20 |
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| elnino | ok. I'll do that after things stop... done! | 07:20 |
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| +Radix-wrk | it shouldn't be as much of an issue with the newer versions.. but I need to do that with 7.0.8 from time to time to keep things running smoothly | 07:21 |
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| elnino | yep. A bunch of /data/wre/prereqs/bin/httpd -f /data/wre/etc/modproxy.conf hanging out with services all stopped. I'm going to kill them. | 07:21 |
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| elnino | I hvae 7.5.24 | 07:21 |
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| +Radix-wrk | kill em off manually then | 07:21 |
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| +Radix-wrk | killall httpd | 07:22 |
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| elnino | spectre is still running... huh? | 07:22 |
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| +Radix-wrk | keep running that until all dead ;) | 07:22 |
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| +Radix-wrk | or ps and kill -9 each individual process | 07:22 |
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| elnino | I did a stop all and it said specre was stoppped.... weird. | 07:22 |
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| +Radix-wrk | something odd is going on | 07:23 |
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| elnino | the "tty" is "?" | 07:23 |
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| specsmu | that means it's a daemon. | 07:23 |
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| elnino | rather than a pts. | 07:23 |
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| elnino | oh. | 07:23 |
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| specsmu | daemons detach from a tty. | 07:23 |
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| elnino | ok. I ran "stop all" again. and all processes are gone. | 07:23 |
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| elnino | opps. except spectre | 07:23 |
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| elnino | STAT is "R" does that mean it's restarting on it's own? | 07:24 |
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| specsmu | no, that means it's Running. | 07:25 |
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| +Radix-wrk | kill it manually | 07:25 |
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| elnino | yep. done. starting all aain. | 07:25 |
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| +Radix-wrk | fingers crossed ;) | 07:25 |
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| elnino | yeah, seemed ike I had two "start alls" going or something. | 07:26 |
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| elnino | all looks well, still looking around. | 07:26 |
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| elnino | Hey thanks for being there with me! both of you.. | 07:29 |
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| +Radix-wrk | all good then? :) | 07:29 |
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| elnino | looks like thing are swell, and sites are speedy again. | 07:29 |
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| +Radix-wrk | good to hear | 07:29 |
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| specsmu | yw | 07:29 |
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| specsmu | though radix did most of the work :) | 07:30 |
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| elnino | noticed that my logs are rotating daily, is there a way to change the frequency? | 07:30 |
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| * Radix-wrk has no idea about logs. | 07:30 |
| +Radix-wrk | And it's good to know the same process I use with 7.0.8 still works with 7.5.24 | 07:31 |
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| elnino | that's fine, just thought I'd ask since I had your attention. =) I'll look on pb. | 07:31 |
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| elnino | it's weird with those extra processes. I wish I knew what caused them rather than just how to kill them. | 07:31 |
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| +Radix-wrk | I should upgrade this server to the latest webgui sometime, but it runs pretty well as is and had no major incentive to | 07:32 |
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| elnino | nice features? | 07:32 |
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| elnino | 7.0.8 - that's a long time ago. before my time. =) | 07:32 |
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| +Radix-wrk | elnino: what I think happened is that wremonitor lost the plot - thought apache/spectre was dead and restarted it | 07:32 |
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| elnino | but WHY? =) It was definately confused I agree. | 07:32 |
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| +Radix-wrk | no idea, sorry | 07:33 |
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| elnino | is there a way to disable wre? or modify what it double checks? | 07:33 |
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| elnino | I mean wremonitor? | 07:33 |
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| +Radix-wrk | Hmm.. not sure with the new version | 07:34 |
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| +Radix-wrk | it used to be added to cron | 07:34 |
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| +Radix-wrk | check /etc/crontab or try su'ing to the webgui user and crontab -e | 07:35 |
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| elnino | ok... I came across this before.. And am a bit confused by it. I ALWAYS modify /etc/crontab. but if I do crontab -e the contents of the file is different. what's up with that? (wremonitor is in the "crontab -e") | 07:38 |
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| elnino | is one a user's crontab? | 07:38 |
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| +Radix-wrk | yeah | 07:38 |
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| +Radix-wrk | crontab -e is a users crontab | 07:38 |
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| elnino | well, I'm root. | 07:38 |
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| +Radix-wrk | root is a user too | 07:38 |
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| elnino | so "whos" is the /etc/crontab. I thought that would be roots... | 07:39 |
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| +Radix-wrk | nah, it's not anyones - it's the systems I guess | 07:39 |
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| elnino | so where is root's crontab located? there is nothign in home or ~ or /usr | 07:40 |
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| +Radix-wrk | not sure actually | 07:41 |
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| +Radix-wrk | cron stores it somewhere obviously | 07:41 |
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| elnino | ok... well. now I know.... Thanks! | 07:41 |
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| elnino | to google I go. | 07:42 |
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| elnino | /var/spool/cron/crontabs supposedly | 07:42 |
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| elnino | and there it is. | 07:42 |
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| elnino | ok. that is enough fun for today. now I get to document. Thanks! Have a good evening! | 07:44 |
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| +Radix-wrk | enjoy :) | 07:46 |
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| specsmu | well, me go too. upgrade is done and I hope I don't have to touch webgui for a while. | 07:57 |
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| specsmu | later | 07:57 |
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| * Radix-wrk waves. | 07:57 |
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| AMH_bob | Hi everybody, | 16:31 |
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| AMH_bob | Happy New Year! | 16:31 |
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| AMH_bob | Last week somebody wished me one, but work started to hit the fan right after that and I did not get to finish the chat. | 16:32 |
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| +BartJol | happy new year AMH_bob | 16:36 |
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| AMH_bob | tnx BartJol | 16:38 |
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| AMH_bob | same to you!!! | 16:38 |
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| +BartJol | thanx | 16:38 |
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| +perlDreamer | Hail, hail, the gang's all here | 17:37 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | perlDreamer: So my wife is reading through her email today and asks me if I want to host a 22 year old Belgium girl for the semester........... | 17:39 |
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| +perlDreamer | Do you speak Belgium-ese? | 17:39 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | perlDreamer: nope, not a bit. | 17:40 |
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| +perlDreamer | in that case, maybe pass | 17:40 |
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| +BartJol | well, if she's not french speaking I should be able to translate | 17:40 |
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| * deafferret dreams of two monkeys | 17:41 |
| @perlmonkey2 | ah, no matter what, I'll pass. Having a 22 year old girl living here and making use of the pool would not be conducive to a successful marriage :P | 17:41 |
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| +perlDreamer | perlmonkey2, you are wise :) | 17:42 |
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| +BartJol | even though your wife makes the proposition? | 17:42 |
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| deafferret | perlmonkey2: ya, what BartJol said :) | 17:42 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | BartJol: Just me, my friend, she did not make that proposal in earnest. Merely a test, and I passed. | 17:42 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | s/Just/trust/ | 17:43 |
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| +BartJol | ah | 17:43 |
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| +BartJol | she are evil | 17:43 |
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| SDuensin | Greetings. | 17:43 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | BartJol: her and the rest of the women in the world :P | 17:43 |
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| deafferret | turn the tables -- be insulted that your wife has so little faith in you | 17:43 |
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| * SDuensin will host! :-) | 17:44 |
| @perlmonkey2 | deafferret: there is only one rule of marriage that I've found to be accurate. She is always right, even when she is wrong, you are also wrong. | 17:44 |
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| +BartJol | darn, we sound like frustrated nerds | 17:44 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | :P | 17:44 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | SDuensin: I think you need to live in the area to host. But it might be worth moving here for a semester :P | 17:44 |
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| deafferret | of course I'm frustrated. I'm married. | 17:44 |
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| SDuensin | hhehe | 17:45 |
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| AMH_bob | I'm still happy my wife is letting me go to the WUC again this year! | 17:46 |
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| +BartJol | mmm and why is my the karma macro executed in a profile field from one user and not the other.... | 17:48 |
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| +BartJol | mmm the caret is escaped | 17:52 |
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| @rizen | it sounds like you guys all just have terrible wives. =) | 17:56 |
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| deafferret | like Ivan the Terrible? | 17:57 |
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| SDuensin | No, but there's always room for 22 year old hotness! | 17:57 |
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| +BartJol | I don't have one... but to move to the US for a smester just to host a girl... no | 17:57 |
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| +BartJol | mmm I feel like catching eels with that caret, it keeps escaping | 18:02 |
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| SDuensin | Hey, while people are here, I want to argue about JSON in the database some more. :-) | 18:12 |
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| +perlDreamer | SDuensin: Did you find your double variant problem? | 18:13 |
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| SDuensin | Not yet. :-( | 18:14 |
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| SDuensin | Ok, now I'm really confused... | 18:16 |
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| SDuensin | I edited one of the duplicate variants. Now they're no longer the same, but the one I edited doesn't appear in the drop down to purchase it. | 18:16 |
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| -!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] | 18:22 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o plainhao] by preaction | 18:24 |
| +BartJol | he, is there a new PB person in town? We don't take kindly of strange people | 18:25 |
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| @preaction | BartJol: now now, we don't want no trouble | 18:25 |
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| +BartJol | :) | 18:26 |
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| @preaction | everybody give plainhao a nice, gooey welcome | 18:26 |
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| SDuensin | Ewww | 18:26 |
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| +BartJol | just introduce! then he/she is welcome | 18:26 |
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| +perlDreamer | howdy, plainhao! | 18:26 |
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| +BartJol | but welcome plainhao | 18:27 |
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| @plainhao | hi, everybody! | 18:27 |
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| @plainhao | today is my first day, hopefully not my last :) | 18:27 |
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| +perlDreamer | plainhao: recipe for PB success. Don't tell rizen that he sucks. | 18:28 |
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| +perlDreamer | and don't mention the P word in channel | 18:29 |
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| +BartJol | and don't mind if he does it to you | 18:29 |
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| +BartJol | Perl? | 18:29 |
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| +perlDreamer | no, the other P word | 18:29 |
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| +perlDreamer | actually, there may be several | 18:29 |
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| * plainhao appreciates all the advice and will follow accordingly. | 18:30 |
| @preaction | i suppose introductions will be in order, I'm Doug whom you've spoken to before | 18:32 |
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| +BartJol | I'm a Bart, a Dutchie | 18:32 |
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| +BartJol | s/a/the/ | 18:33 |
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| +perlDreamer | Bart is a perl programmer, and does the majority of the Dutch translation | 18:33 |
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| @preaction | the as-mentiond rizen is JT Smith. Haarg is Graham (support and R&D expert). khenn is Frank (you've spoken to him as well) | 18:33 |
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| +BartJol | perl programmer? that might be a bit to much credit | 18:34 |
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| +BartJol | perlDreamer is the test hero | 18:34 |
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| +perlDreamer | it does not matter how far along the path you are, only that you are on the path | 18:34 |
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| +BartJol | and his name is Colin | 18:34 |
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| @preaction | tavisto is Tavis Parker, the marketing guru. steveo_aa is Stephen Opal, Alumni expert (and Perl / JS developer) | 18:34 |
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| * SDuensin is the #1 WebGUI Fan. | 18:35 |
| @tavisto | Hi Hao, welcome aboard | 18:35 |
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| @preaction | as for the rest, i shant violate their privacy | 18:35 |
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| @tavisto | preaction = the man with one hand | 18:35 |
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| @plainhao | thanks, tavis, i hope you're not in too much pain | 18:36 |
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| @plainhao | oh, wait, it was doug who broke his hand :) | 18:36 |
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| @tavisto | yep :) | 18:36 |
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| @preaction | yeah, the codiene helps, but leaves me wondering what's happening at any given moment | 18:37 |
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| +perlDreamer | tavisto, have you been breaking the developers again? | 18:37 |
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| +perlDreamer | I keep telling you that you won't be allowed to play with them if you do... | 18:37 |
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| @preaction | nono, tavis doesnt hit me, i... i... fell down some stairs | 18:38 |
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| +perlDreamer | just have a fudge oat bar and some tylenol, preaction | 18:39 |
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| @preaction | tylenol 3! its better than tylenol 1 and 2 | 18:39 |
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| @plainhao | do you guys use the latest development version for client work, latest beta, or latest stable? | 18:39 |
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| +BartJol | tavisto: if you do, your trip to the netherlands will be long and painfull | 18:40 |
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| +BartJol | latest stable | 18:40 |
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| +BartJol | or older, but that's due to laziness in the past | 18:40 |
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| @tavisto | yeah, preaction rarely disobeys, but when he does the penalty involves a hammer and his fingers.. | 18:40 |
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| +perlDreamer | plainhao, it depends on what the client wants | 18:41 |
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| @tavisto | BartJol is next on the list. He is a big girly man! | 18:41 |
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| +BartJol | girly? I don't take that from metroman | 18:42 |
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| +perlDreamer | tavisto, BartJol would bend you in a nice, tight, Michgander pretzel shape | 18:42 |
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| +BartJol | but I'd rather not | 18:42 |
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| +perlDreamer | no, we really do like tavisto | 18:42 |
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| @tavisto | BartJol looks mean (not really) but is actually just a nice big buzzed teddy bear | 18:43 |
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| +BartJol | I do have a scary picture of me somewere though | 18:44 |
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| +perlDreamer | it's on webgui.org | 18:44 |
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| +BartJol | smiling with a razor at the ready | 18:45 |
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| +BartJol | no it's not there | 18:45 |
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| @tavisto | hehe nice | 18:46 |
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| * perlDreamer is not used to seeing BartJol with hair | 18:48 |
| +BartJol | you should be after last WUC | 18:48 |
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| +perlDreamer | no, you were shaven then, yes? | 18:49 |
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| +BartJol | my face was, and I had a haircut | 18:50 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: colin * r9147 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): Fix linking to other things and autocreating the form field for it. | 19:14 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: yung * r9148 /branch/WebGUI_flux/lib/WebGUI/ (Auth/WebGUI.pm Inbox/Message.pm): forcing html in WebGUI Auth's welcome message email | 19:14 |
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| -!- BartJol [n=plainstu@194.171.50.123] has left #webgui [] | 19:23 |
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| +cap10morgan | hey, i have a client who wanted to setup a photo gallery on their website. i encouraged them to use the photo gallery tool (their site is running on wG 7.5), but he gave me a list of shortcomings he'd found w/ it that are showstoppers for his using it for this. he wants to use something else now, but i wanted to put his list up somewhere so the wG community could try tackling them (either w/ code, clever ideas, or whatever). What's the best pl | 19:26 |
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| dionak | sounds like RFE's | 19:27 |
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| +cap10morgan | that's what I thought too | 19:27 |
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| -!- mode/#webgui [+o khenn] by ChanServ | 19:31 |
| SDuensin | I hate this database table. Hate it. HATE HATE HATE it. | 19:48 |
|---|
| * SDuensin refers to "Product". | 19:48 |
| * perlDreamer won't take it personally | 19:49 |
| SDuensin | I even filed an RFE. rizen denied it in record time. | 19:49 |
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| SDuensin | Seriously. How is JSON in the database even remotely a good idea? (No offense.) | 19:50 |
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| @rizen | SDuensin: it is good for a number of reasons | 19:50 |
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| +perlDreamer | it allows versioning of collateral | 19:50 |
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| +perlDreamer | it exports and packages and prototypes by default | 19:50 |
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| SDuensin | So does another table. | 19:50 |
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| @rizen | but the primary reason that basically gets rid of all other arguments is the one pd just stated | 19:50 |
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| @rizen | SDuensin: no it doesn't | 19:51 |
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| SDuensin | Why not? It could. | 19:51 |
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| @rizen | perlDreamer neglected to use the world "automatic" | 19:51 |
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| SDuensin | Yea. | 19:51 |
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| @rizen | we get it for free | 19:51 |
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| @rizen | no additional work | 19:51 |
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| @rizen | it just works | 19:51 |
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| @rizen | anything else requires extra development effort, not to mention knowledge of the other subsystems that might use it | 19:51 |
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| SDuensin | So we take bad database design when it lets us be lazy? That's a dangerous precedent. | 19:51 |
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| @rizen | versioning, prototypes, packages, or anything else that comes in the future | 19:52 |
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| @rizen | no SDuensin you're not seeing the picture here | 19:52 |
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| @rizen | this isn't about laziness | 19:52 |
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| @rizen | it's about compatibility | 19:52 |
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| @rizen | we design our objects to work with all these other features | 19:52 |
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| @rizen | not to work with the database | 19:52 |
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| @rizen | the user doesn't care about the database | 19:53 |
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| @rizen | the user cares that all their features work the way they exepct | 19:53 |
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| SDuensin | I know the user doesn't, but the admin does. | 19:53 |
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| @rizen | they want their products and all their variants to be versioned | 19:53 |
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| @rizen | and the admin cares about that too | 19:53 |
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| @rizen | the admin also doesn't care about the db | 19:53 |
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| @rizen | only the programmer does | 19:53 |
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| @rizen | and so the programmer has to make a sacrifice for the sake of the user and secondarly the admin | 19:54 |
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| SDuensin | Well mine has become a complete disaster. | 19:54 |
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| @rizen | and that's why the decision has been made | 19:54 |
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| SDuensin | (And I used the API!) | 19:54 |
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| @rizen | you either used it inapproriately, or we have not documented it well enough, or there is a bug, or all of the above | 19:55 |
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| @rizen | regardless | 19:55 |
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| @rizen | it has nothing to do with the choice to use json in in a table | 19:55 |
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| SDuensin | But the JSON makes it practically unfixable. | 19:55 |
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| @rizen | *you* should not care how the data is stored unless *you* are the one writing the product asset | 19:55 |
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| @rizen | which you are not | 19:55 |
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| SDuensin | No, but this started when I had to set all my products to an insane quantity to get them to show up. | 19:56 |
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| SDuensin | Now I have duplicates of everything. | 19:56 |
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| SDuensin | Except, only kinda. Which is what hurts my head. | 19:56 |
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| @rizen | SDuensin: you can sit and bitch and whine if you want, but i won't participate in that discussion. you wanted to know why your RFE was rejected, and that's what i'm responding to | 19:56 |
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| SDuensin | I see dupes in the admin area where you can edit variants, but not in the drop down where the user selects one to purchase. | 19:57 |
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| SDuensin | Sorry if it sounds like bitching. I just think it's the wrong approach and wanted to debate it a bit. You've got damn good reasons. It's just going to require me (and others) to write a ton of scripts to manage their stores efficiently. | 19:58 |
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| +perlDreamer | SDuensin, maybe we just need a product with variants that do not do inventory control. | 19:59 |
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| +perlDreamer | I'd be happy to write such a beast for you | 19:59 |
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| SDuensin | Well, that'd fix one problem. My main hangup right now (other than fixing my dupes) is "sizes"... | 20:00 |
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| +perlDreamer | sizes? | 20:00 |
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| SDuensin | I know variants are intended for that, but here's the problem... | 20:00 |
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| SDuensin | Say I have a ring that's available in silver and gold, wide and narrow... | 20:00 |
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| SDuensin | That's four variants of one product... | 20:01 |
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| +perlDreamer | yes... | 20:01 |
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| SDuensin | Now the ring comes in two dozen different sizes. My drop down now has almost a hundred items in it! | 20:01 |
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| SDuensin | See how it gets out of hand very quickly? | 20:03 |
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| +perlDreamer | yes, but like you said, it's a different problem, and I can only tackle one at a time | 20:03 |
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| SDuensin | I understand that. I've considered a few hacks to fix it... | 20:04 |
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| SDuensin | Either allowing arbitrary data to be entered when they are viewing the product, or just a quick hack to put a general comments field on the cart during check out. | 20:04 |
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| * SDuensin already hacked his own Shelf to fix pagination. | 20:05 |
| @rizen | SDuensin: put in RFE's for either scripts or UI based controls that do these maintenance functions | 20:05 |
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| SDuensin | rizen - Will do. I figured the need for them would go away over time as the new shop becomes more mature. | 20:06 |
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| @rizen | SDuensin: also put in RFE's for API enhancements to make writing said scripts easier and less error prone | 20:06 |
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| @rizen | the shop becomes mature through RFE's | 20:06 |
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| SDuensin | And after I manage to get out from under this site, I plan on doing some of this work myself. And other fun WebGUI things! | 20:06 |
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| @rizen | until we know what walls people are running into it's hard to remove the walls | 20:06 |
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| SDuensin | I know. I just like to understand the wall before I RFE something or report it as a bug. You guys have enough work without me filing half-baked reports. | 20:07 |
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| +perlDreamer | I'd rather sort through half-baked bug reports than have people being frustrated with unreported bugs | 20:08 |
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| +perlDreamer | and don't forget, _I'm_ responsible for the Shelf pagination thing. | 20:09 |
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| +perlDreamer | I was wrong in considering it a bug, when it was an RFE. | 20:09 |
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| SDuensin | :-P | 20:09 |
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| SDuensin | That one was easy. | 20:09 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: colin * r9149 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): | 20:25 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: Have Thingy check for existance of table and column to prevent | 20:25 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: SQL from dying. | 20:25 |
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| -!- bernd__ [n=spunky@tmo-105-245.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #webgui | 20:29 |
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| -!- BartJol [n=plainstu@52-167.surfsnel.dsl.internl.net] has joined #webgui | 20:43 |
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| +perlDreamer | BartJol: mountains of i18n coming when 7.6.8 is released | 20:47 |
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| +BartJol | yeah, you told me | 20:48 |
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| +BartJol | when is that due? | 20:48 |
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| +perlDreamer | this week, I think | 20:48 |
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| +perlDreamer | I'm sorry, man. | 20:49 |
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| +BartJol | mmm, and I'm already behind | 20:49 |
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| +BartJol | hee, not your fault, you're just doing your thing | 20:49 |
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| bernd__ | Hey everyone, | 20:49 |
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| bernd__ | I just posted some questions on JeOS. | 20:49 |
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| bernd__ | Were these readable? | 20:49 |
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| bernd__ | I was experiencing network problems on my side? | 20:50 |
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| +BartJol | JeOS? | 20:50 |
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| bernd__ | Hi perlDreamer, hi BartJol, btw. | 20:50 |
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| +perlDreamer | no, bernd__ No JeOS stuff from you so far, today | 20:50 |
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| bernd__ | Ok. I see. | 20:50 |
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| bernd__ | So I am going to repeat. | 20:50 |
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| bernd__ | I was thinking about creating a new appliance based on JeOS. | 20:50 |
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| bernd__ | A more light-weight appliance than the one that is available. | 20:50 |
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| bernd__ | JeOS is a special flavor of the Ubuntu server edition. | 20:51 |
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| +BartJol | oh, first I have to write a mail to the guy that made a loosy report on the state of my new house | 20:51 |
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| bernd__ | I is specially designed for running inside virtual machines. | 20:51 |
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| +BartJol | oh, prolly my opninion in that matter isn't worth that much | 20:51 |
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| +BartJol | ah, but that might be interesting for me | 20:51 |
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| bernd__ | So, tell me your wishes. | 20:51 |
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| +BartJol | we have quite some of those, but most run on debian | 20:52 |
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| bernd__ | What should it come with by default? | 20:52 |
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| bernd__ | I was thinking of JeOS, because it is very small and William had mentioned it before. | 20:52 |
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| bernd__ | That was during the discussion about whether to package wre tools separately. | 20:52 |
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| +BartJol | well, I should dive in it for a bit before I can form an opinion | 20:53 |
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| bernd__ | Besides, there are packages for ubuntu now available. | 20:53 |
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| +BartJol | sorry, but my new house is a main priority bbl | 20:53 |
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| bernd__ | BartJol, no problem! | 20:53 |
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| bernd__ | If I had a house it would be my priority as well :-) | 20:54 |
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| bernd__ | perlDreamer, any comments? | 20:54 |
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| * perlDreamer likes fedora :( | 20:54 |
| +perlDreamer | is JeOS different from Knoppix? | 20:54 |
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| bernd__ | Even on Servers? | 20:54 |
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| +perlDreamer | even on servers | 20:54 |
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| bernd__ | No idea. | 20:54 |
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| +perlDreamer | I've been a red hat user for a very long time | 20:55 |
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| bernd__ | I do not know knoppix. | 20:55 |
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| bernd__ | I just know Debian and Ubuntu. | 20:55 |
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| +perlDreamer | but if red hat/fedora is not available, ubuntu would be my next choice | 20:55 |
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| -!- rizen [n=rizen@h69-128-55-18.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net] has quit [] | 20:55 |
| bernd__ | My site is running on ubuntu server and I quite like it. | 20:55 |
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| @tavisto | bernd__ I have communicated with several Canonical employees about getting WebGUI into Ubuntu. There is some interest (and they were considering using wG to run the Ubuntu website) but the guys seem to be extremely busy and limited on time. | 20:55 |
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| +perlDreamer | I've heard lots of good things about Ubuntu. | 20:55 |
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| bernd__ | It is very need. | 20:55 |
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| bernd__ | It has the power of Debian testing but is a lot more stable. | 20:56 |
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| bernd__ | At least it was in the past. | 20:56 |
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| bernd__ | That is the reason why I switched from Debian to ubuntu. | 20:56 |
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| @tavisto | let me look up my last email b/c they mentioned how if we had interested contributors then it could be done fairly easy | 20:56 |
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| bernd__ | tavisto, have you seen the new packages by jmarsden? | 20:57 |
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| @tavisto | no, I did briefly see the emails on the dev list though | 20:57 |
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| bernd__ | perlDreamer, check this one about JeOS: http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition/jeos | 20:57 |
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| @tavisto | This is a response I received from Malcom Yates @ canonical: Because it is GPL'd we can provide access to Ubuntu users through the Partner | 20:58 |
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| @tavisto | repo, but a pre-req for this is that there is a deb available, and that the | 20:58 |
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| @tavisto | deb passes our quality and build standards. We can help with that for a | 20:58 |
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| @tavisto | charge. | 20:58 |
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| @tavisto | If you had a MOTU, someone with commit rights to the Ubuntu Universe | 20:58 |
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| @tavisto | repository, then this would enable you to add and maintain with no recourse | 20:58 |
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| bernd__ | tavisto, he has published ubuntu packages for intrepid ibex based on the ones by ernesto! | 20:58 |
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| @tavisto | to Canonical :-) | 20:58 |
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| @tavisto | MOTU is Master Of The Universe | 20:58 |
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| +perlDreamer | I like the sound of that | 20:59 |
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| bernd__ | I would assume that packages which make it into Debian are good enough for Ubuntu as well. | 20:59 |
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| * perlDreamer is a MOTWU | 20:59 |
| @tavisto | well that's what he stated above | 20:59 |
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| @tavisto | the deb has to be available | 20:59 |
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| @tavisto | and then it must meet their standards. Ernesto told me his code is way beyond the standards anyway | 20:59 |
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| bernd__ | But is available already! Check http://launchpad.net/~jmarsden/+archive | 21:00 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: colin * r9150 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (3 files in 3 dirs): | 21:00 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: Fix problems created by deleting a linked thing. Added additional error messages | 21:00 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: and a general method for checking the other thing. | 21:00 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: colin * r9151 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm i18n/English/Asset_Thingy.pm): Forward porting expanded patch for handling deleted things. | 21:00 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: colin * r9152 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Help/Asset_DataForm.pm): Correct dataform captcha variable name in the help. | 21:00 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: colin * r9153 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Help/Asset_DataForm.pm): Backporting dataform template variable (captcha) fix. | 21:00 |
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| bernd__ | The only problem I see is that it is still a monolithic package. | 21:01 |
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| bernd__ | perlDreamer, did you check the page on JeOS? | 21:01 |
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| +perlDreamer | no, I'm fixing bugs | 21:02 |
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| +perlDreamer | I'll look soon, though | 21:02 |
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| +perlDreamer | sounds nice. The best thing for wG would be no apache, no mysql, no mod_perl | 21:05 |
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| +perlDreamer | I didn't see a list of packages | 21:05 |
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| bernd__ | perlDreamer, list of packages? | 21:06 |
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| bernd__ | You mean, packages that are available for installing on JeOS? | 21:06 |
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| bernd__ | Again having network problems. | 21:08 |
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| bernd__ | perlDreamer, did my last replies get through? | 21:08 |
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| +perlDreamer | yes | 21:11 |
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| +perlDreamer | it would be good to see the default list of packages | 21:11 |
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| +perlDreamer | it will be a choice between WRE (optimized for wG) and good packages (optimized for sysadmin) | 21:12 |
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| bernd__ | Available packages are listed on http://packages.ubuntu.com/ | 21:12 |
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| bernd__ | I do not know, which ones are installed by default. | 21:12 |
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| bernd__ | But the server edition is very light-weight and only comes with a minimum. | 21:13 |
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| bernd__ | Everything else needs to be apted in. | 21:13 |
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| bernd__ | Why choose between WRE and admin packages? | 21:13 |
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| bernd__ | We could use both. | 21:14 |
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| bernd__ | One tool for managing WebGUI, one for the rest. | 21:14 |
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| +perlDreamer | ah, but the WRE versions of apache, perl and mysql are all stripped down for maximum performance | 21:14 |
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| +perlDreamer | and native ubuntu/debian packages may not be | 21:14 |
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| bernd__ | Since canonical provides a server edition of ubuntu, I would bet there packages are optimized for performance as well. | 21:15 |
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| bernd__ | their packages | 21:16 |
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| bernd__ | Still, we could modify configuration. | 21:16 |
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| +perlDreamer | true. When I say stripped down, I mean they only compiled into the WRE only what wG needs. | 21:16 |
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| bernd__ | But if you preferred the WRE, we could start with the WRE in the beginning. | 21:17 |
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| bernd__ | That's what I am doing on my V-server. | 21:17 |
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| +perlDreamer | for example, I'm fairly sure that a WRE mysql only includes the database driver for ISAM tables | 21:17 |
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| +perlDreamer | so no transactions | 21:17 |
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| bernd__ | Would that be a problem? | 21:18 |
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| bernd__ | I mean, it is only disk space. | 21:18 |
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| +perlDreamer | this is true | 21:18 |
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| bernd__ | And probably not that much. | 21:18 |
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| bernd__ | JeOS is only 300 Mb in its minimum installation. | 21:18 |
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| bernd__ | I think, we could waste a bit. | 21:19 |
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| +perlDreamer | I remember it being a point of discussion with SquOnk as a package maintainer, but it's probably minor | 21:19 |
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| bernd__ | But again, there is no reason not to use the WRE. | 21:19 |
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| bernd__ | Do you think there would be some interest in a new appliance? | 21:20 |
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| +perlDreamer | maybe | 21:20 |
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| +perlDreamer | I'd ask on the dev list | 21:20 |
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| bernd__ | Or better, what would it have to come with to be interesting to others. | 21:20 |
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| bernd__ | What would be your wish list. | 21:20 |
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| bernd__ | ? | 21:20 |
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| +perlDreamer | hm | 21:21 |
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| +perlDreamer | easy deployment for a new vm | 21:21 |
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| +perlDreamer | I'm not sure, I haven't done much thinking about VM's | 21:21 |
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| +perlDreamer | SynQ has done a lot of thinking about it though, as I'm sure that rizen and the other hosters have. | 21:22 |
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| bernd__ | Deployment is probably rather a matter of the virtualization environment? | 21:22 |
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| +perlDreamer | yes | 21:22 |
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| +BartJol | SynQ isn't online that much anymore. You could try to send him a rpivate message via the webgui.org | 21:23 |
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| bernd__ | I am going to search for his name in the forum. | 21:24 |
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| +BartJol | it's koen | 21:24 |
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| bernd__ | Maybe, he has some good advoice. | 21:24 |
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| bernd__ | SynQ is koen? | 21:24 |
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| +perlDreamer | yes | 21:24 |
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| +BartJol | I don't think thatsynq exists in the website | 21:24 |
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| bernd__ | Ah, koen I know. | 21:24 |
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| bernd__ | Thanks! | 21:24 |
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| +BartJol | np, you can bother him as much as you want, the lesser he is bothering me ;) | 21:25 |
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| +BartJol | (he's my boss) | 21:25 |
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| bernd__ | BartJol, I am going to re-active my spam daemon! | 21:26 |
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| bernd__ | Haven't used it in a while. | 21:26 |
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| +BartJol | :) | 21:26 |
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| +BartJol | whoa, full house, new years spirit? | 21:31 |
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| * SDuensin is always here. :-) | 21:31 |
| * perlDreamer suspects that SDuensin is really just an augmented bot. | 21:37 |
| khenn_ | I'm just here so I can get my drama fix | 21:37 |
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| khenn_ | =) | 21:37 |
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| * crythias1 just wants everything he asks for. Right now. | 21:38 |
| * SDuensin is a bot that can write bots then. | 21:39 |
| SDuensin | Is that life? | 21:39 |
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| +perlDreamer | SDuensin: Given that it is a proven fact that I always lie, if I state that I am lying what is the result? | 21:40 |
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| SDuensin | That puzzle leads to alcohol. | 21:40 |
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| +crythias1 | hrm. while (FALSE==FALSE) do ; | 21:40 |
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| +BartJol | alcohol? where?\ | 21:40 |
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| * SDuensin always has *some* kind of booze ready to roll. | 21:42 |
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| SDuensin | cap10morgan! That's alcohol! | 21:42 |
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| +perlDreamer | SDuensin, you certainly sound alive, yet not sober, to me | 21:42 |
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| SDuensin | Unfortunately, the most potent thing I've had today was a hot cup of Earl Grey. | 21:44 |
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| +BartJol | mmm, maybe I should move to something else than water | 21:45 |
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| dreamersgirl | it's gotta be noon somewhere in the world... | 21:48 |
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| +perlDreamer | it's after noon in BartJol's house | 21:48 |
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| +BartJol | far after noon | 21:48 |
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| +BartJol | you could call it evening | 21:48 |
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| +BartJol | hee dreamersgirl, how're you doing? | 21:49 |
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| dreamersgirl | good! | 21:49 |
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| +BartJol | nice | 21:49 |
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| dreamersgirl | how 'bout you? | 21:49 |
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| +BartJol | well, busy with my new house | 21:49 |
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| +BartJol | so good | 21:49 |
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| dreamersgirl | new house!?! | 21:49 |
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| +BartJol | indeed | 21:49 |
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| dreamersgirl | fun! | 21:49 |
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| +BartJol | yeah, I've got pictures | 21:50 |
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| dreamersgirl | oooh | 21:50 |
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| bernd__ | How do we know you are not cheating? | 21:50 |
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| +BartJol | http://www.bartjol.nl/home/nieuw-huis | 21:50 |
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| +BartJol | me? cheating? | 21:50 |
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| bernd__ | Ah, definitely not cheating :-P | 21:50 |
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| dreamersgirl | nice place! | 21:51 |
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| +BartJol | nope, it's really real | 21:51 |
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| +BartJol | yeah, lot to be done though | 21:51 |
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| dreamersgirl | congrats | 21:51 |
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| bernd__ | No, I meant showing some impressive place instead. | 21:52 |
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| +BartJol | thanks | 21:52 |
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| +BartJol | ah, like buckingham palace or the white house | 21:52 |
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| bernd__ | In any case, much better than the 30 m2 I have at the moment. | 21:52 |
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| +BartJol | ah, it will be 60 m2 | 21:52 |
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| bernd__ | You should not exaggerate! Otherwise it is too obvious. | 21:52 |
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| +BartJol | 60 isn't that big | 21:53 |
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| bernd__ | That sounds reasonable. | 21:53 |
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| bernd__ | Single? | 21:53 |
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| +BartJol | yup | 21:53 |
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| bernd__ | Sufficient. | 21:53 |
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| +BartJol | but I plan to have a polygamous commune after may | 21:53 |
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| bernd__ | Tolerant neighbors? | 21:53 |
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| +BartJol | dunno yet, my neighbour upstairs sounded nice | 21:53 |
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| +BartJol | the rest I don' | 21:53 |
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| +BartJol | t know yet' | 21:53 |
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| bernd__ | Convince them to join your commune! | 21:54 |
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| bernd__ | Only the females, of course. | 21:54 |
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| bernd__ | The others are free to leave. | 21:54 |
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| +BartJol | that figures | 21:54 |
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| bernd__ | BarJol, your homepage has not been translated completely yet! | 21:55 |
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| bernd__ | Shame on you! | 21:55 |
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| bernd__ | The gallery still shows some English labels! | 21:55 |
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| +BartJol | eeh, it's mostly a testsite, which happens to break once a week. you could almost call it a feature :) | 21:56 |
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| +BartJol | yeah, I like the english version better myself | 21:56 |
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| bernd__ | Happy breaking in that case! | 21:56 |
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| bernd__ | Did you get that letter finished? | 21:56 |
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| +BartJol | I did | 21:56 |
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| bernd__ | Good! | 21:56 |
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| bernd__ | Does that mean we can talk about appliances again? | 21:57 |
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| dreamersgirl | Speaking of translations, do the Dutch words "Nieuw huis" sound anything like "new house" in English? | 21:57 |
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| +BartJol | dreamersgirl: a bit | 21:57 |
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| bernd__ | Can give in phonetic symbols, please? | 21:57 |
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| bernd__ | you | 21:57 |
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| +BartJol | bernd__: yeah, but I think you'll be talking garbled crap to me quite soon | 21:57 |
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| +BartJol | ooh, webgui phonetic | 21:58 |
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| bernd__ | crap? | 21:58 |
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| dreamersgirl | rizen would like that | 21:58 |
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| dreamersgirl | he speaks garbled crap quite well, I hear | 21:58 |
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| bernd__ | phonetics? | 21:58 |
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| +perlDreamer | web gooey fone tik | 21:58 |
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| +perlDreamer | web gooey foe net ick | 21:58 |
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| +BartJol | bernd__: I mean I won't understand you, because I haven't eaten a lot of chees of that | 21:58 |
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| bernd__ | I do not know much of it either. | 21:59 |
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| dreamersgirl | it's noon here... | 21:59 |
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| bernd__ | What I want to talk about is the image. | 21:59 |
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| bernd__ | What should it look like? | 21:59 |
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| bernd__ | Which software? | 21:59 |
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| dreamersgirl | gotta go make lunch for a sick kid. Later, guys! | 21:59 |
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| bernd__ | Later! | 21:59 |
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| +perlDreamer | sick kid? How about a hard working husband? | 21:59 |
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| +BartJol | ok, is that last thing you posted a good intro for me? | 21:59 |
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| bernd__ | dreamersgirl your wife, perlDreamer? | 22:00 |
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| dreamersgirl | you really want plain rice and dry toast? | 22:00 |
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| +BartJol | dreamersgirl, do that | 22:00 |
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| +perlDreamer | she's stuck with me, bernd__ | 22:00 |
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| dreamersgirl | :) | 22:00 |
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| +BartJol | how far are you two actually apart? | 22:00 |
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| +perlDreamer | about 30 cm | 22:00 |
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| bernd__ | perlDreamer, that is what happens if you spend too much time on the chat and neglect your wife!" | 22:00 |
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| +BartJol | :) | 22:00 |
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| dreamersgirl | he's working | 22:00 |
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| dreamersgirl | isn't he? | 22:00 |
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| bernd__ | Sometimes. | 22:01 |
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| +BartJol | he's just chatting with is european friends | 22:01 |
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| bernd__ | But can't be much at the frequency he is replying to my questions. | 22:01 |
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| +BartJol | s/is/his | 22:01 |
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| dreamersgirl | gotcha. | 22:01 |
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| dreamersgirl | now back to the dry toast... | 22:01 |
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| bernd__ | perlDreamer, don't you have nice European friends? | 22:02 |
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| +perlDreamer | I have very nice european friends | 22:02 |
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| bernd__ | BartJol, back to garbled crap! | 22:02 |
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| bernd__ | Which post? | 22:02 |
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| +BartJol | http://www.webgui.org/webgui/dev/discuss/ubuntu-packages/ | 22:03 |
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| SDuensin | Hey, in the product variants, what's the difference between "vid" and "variantId"? | 22:03 |
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| +BartJol | SDuensin: where do you find those labels? | 22:04 |
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| bernd__ | No! Not much of interest at the moment. | 22:04 |
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| SDuensin | When I Dumper::Dump a $variant. | 22:04 |
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| bernd__ | My question is: what would you want such an image be able to do? | 22:04 |
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| bernd__ | Which software should it come with? | 22:04 |
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| bernd__ | What would be your preferred way of administrating it? | 22:04 |
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| bernd__ | For example, should the wreconsole run by default? | 22:05 |
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| +BartJol | so an image of an OS that you wanna use for WebGUI? | 22:05 |
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| bernd__ | ... to be run inside a virtual environment later on. | 22:05 |
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| bernd__ | Exactly! | 22:05 |
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| +perlDreamer | vid = form variable used to store a variantId ? | 22:05 |
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| bernd__ | The idea is to generate something easily deployable on root servers. | 22:06 |
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| bernd__ | Just clone the image and start a new server!" | 22:06 |
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| bernd__ | Like the appliance that is available already. | 22:06 |
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| bernd__ | Just smaller. | 22:06 |
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| +BartJol | but aren't we looking for all features inside the wre plus some basics? | 22:06 |
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| bernd__ | And more comfortable. | 22:06 |
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| SDuensin | I'm writing a de-duper. Just curious. | 22:07 |
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| bernd__ | Probably, still the WRE at the moment. | 22:07 |
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| bernd__ | So let us talk about the basics. | 22:07 |
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| bernd__ | e-Mail? | 22:07 |
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| bernd__ | SSH? | 22:07 |
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| bernd__ | IRC? | 22:07 |
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| +BartJol | it should be able to handle those indeed | 22:07 |
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| bernd__ | FTP? | 22:07 |
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| +BartJol | well, ftp isn't used that much | 22:08 |
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| +BartJol | a readable firewall should be included | 22:08 |
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| bernd__ | Which one? | 22:08 |
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| +BartJol | we use shorewall | 22:08 |
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| bernd__ | What about an admin tool? | 22:08 |
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| +BartJol | which is an interface for iptables | 22:08 |
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| bernd__ | I like webmin, for example. | 22:08 |
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| +BartJol | admin tool for what exactly? | 22:09 |
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| bernd__ | It has a module for configuring shorewall. | 22:09 |
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| bernd__ | Everything. | 22:09 |
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| bernd__ | Something like yast. | 22:09 |
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| bernd__ | Just web-enabled. | 22:09 |
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| +BartJol | that has some downsides with security stuff | 22:09 |
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| +BartJol | I would more think in the direction of what xencentre is for xenserver | 22:10 |
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| bernd__ | Works through secure http. | 22:10 |
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| bernd__ | Safe enough? | 22:10 |
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| +BartJol | yeah, but a ssl certificate won't be optional | 22:10 |
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| bernd__ | I have not worked with xenserver yet. | 22:10 |
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| bernd__ | Why not use a private one? | 22:10 |
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| * SDuensin has never managed to make Webmin work. :-( | 22:10 |
| +BartJol | last week I passed my administration xen exam | 22:11 |
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| bernd__ | SDuensin, on ubuntu server you just install the deb package. | 22:11 |
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| SDuensin | bernd__ - I know, but I load all the optional crap and break it. :-) | 22:11 |
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| +BartJol | actually that's easy, only a lot of facts | 22:11 |
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| bernd__ | OOps, my accu is almost empty. | 22:11 |
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| bernd__ | We need to go on some other time. | 22:12 |
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| +BartJol | ok | 22:12 |
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| +perlDreamer | what is an accu? | 22:12 |
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| +BartJol | a have wall current at home :) | 22:12 |
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| +BartJol | battery | 22:12 |
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| bernd__ | Check this thread if you want to participate in the discussion: http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/dev/discuss/poll-wre-utilities-as-a-distribution/6/re-poll-wre-utilities-as-a-distribution | 22:13 |
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| bernd__ | Yeah, battery. | 22:13 |
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| +BartJol | but in Dutch (and prolly german) we have differnt words for rechargable batteries (accu) and none recharchable ones: batteries | 22:13 |
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| bernd__ | Accu probably isn't English at all. | 22:13 |
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| bernd__ | It means re-chargeable battery. | 22:13 |
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| +perlDreamer | ah, thanks | 22:14 |
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| +BartJol | that link breaks with me | 22:14 |
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| bernd__ | Ok. I need to shut down. | 22:14 |
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| SDuensin | Ok, Ubuntu guys, why does SSH work but not SFTP on my server? | 22:15 |
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| +BartJol | strange | 22:15 |
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| +BartJol | I'd guess something with your FW | 22:15 |
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| SDuensin | It's all over 22, isn't it? | 22:15 |
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| * SDuensin wants to edit his remote crap with Coda. | 22:16 |
| +BartJol | ssh is 443 i thought | 22:16 |
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| +BartJol | ssl is 22 if I'm correct | 22:16 |
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| SDuensin | Backwards. | 22:16 |
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| SDuensin | But then again, you are on the other side of the planet. :-) | 22:16 |
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| +BartJol | mmm | 22:17 |
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| +BartJol | oh yeah, I'm confused | 22:17 |
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| @plainhao | sftp needs to be enabled as a service in your ssh_config | 22:17 |
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| danny_mk | Good new year everyone, any plans for the 2009 conference yet? | 22:17 |
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| SDuensin | plainhao - I did that. :-/ | 22:18 |
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| @plainhao | d'oh, nevermind then :) | 22:18 |
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| +BartJol | something with beer in the hotel bar at the end of the day danny_mk | 22:18 |
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| danny_mk | sure, would like to see a presentation on the Authentication modules, specifically the OpenId authentication :-) | 22:18 |
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| danny_mk | boy, new year, same crap :-) | 22:19 |
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| +BartJol | well, offer to do it yourself | 22:19 |
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| +BartJol | JT will be glad with it I think | 22:19 |
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| danny_mk | I can do like a new install, probably 20min or so | 22:19 |
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| danny_mk | Explain how it works | 22:19 |
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| danny_mk | lord, come to think about it, I talk to much :-) | 22:20 |
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| danny_mk | maybe 40min | 22:20 |
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| +BartJol | danny_mk: just ask him whether he think that will be a good idea | 22:20 |
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| +BartJol | just give an idea how you wanna build up your presentation | 22:20 |
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| +BartJol | he'll disagree as he feels fit | 22:21 |
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| danny_mk | I think JT will be working on OpenId authorization for 8.x.x | 22:21 |
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| +BartJol | yeah, but he's always busy around the wuc | 22:21 |
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| danny_mk | I guess I will ask when we are closer to the conference | 22:22 |
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| danny_mk | which is usually in the fall, right? | 22:22 |
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| +perlDreamer | danny_mk, I think he's just rewriting the underlying Auth interface | 22:22 |
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| +BartJol | the 2 I went to were in august and october | 22:22 |
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| +perlDreamer | and probably the WebGUI and LDAP plugins | 22:22 |
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| +perlDreamer | it's september this year? | 22:22 |
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| +BartJol | I dunno, we should ask Ryan | 22:23 |
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| danny_mk | Hopefully I will not have to judge any canaries during the week of the conference | 22:23 |
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| +BartJol | canaries? | 22:23 |
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| +BartJol | small birds? | 22:23 |
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| danny_mk | My schedule usually starts the last weekend in September | 22:24 |
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| danny_mk | Yes, small birds | 22:24 |
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| danny_mk | www.canarysave.com | 22:24 |
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| +BartJol | pheew, it's a webgui site ;) | 22:24 |
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| danny_mk | LOL | 22:24 |
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| danny_mk | of course | 22:24 |
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| +BartJol | but if you can announce it this early, you should be ok, right? | 22:25 |
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| danny_mk | sure | 22:25 |
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| +BartJol | I'd like to meet new people | 22:25 |
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| +BartJol | if I'm allowed to go | 22:25 |
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| danny_mk | my new boss seems pretty flexible, as long as I do some work from there I think he will be happy | 22:26 |
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| +BartJol | and I haven't seen any small birds at the wuc lunches so far | 22:27 |
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| danny_mk | LOL, other than a penguin, you probably wont | 22:27 |
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| danny_mk | I really hate the WebGUI captcha image :-( | 22:27 |
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| +BartJol | :) | 22:27 |
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| danny_mk | Can't wait to possibly get ReCaptcha working | 22:28 |
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| +BartJol | maybe make a rfe with a suggestion for another captcha tool | 22:28 |
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| danny_mk | that is already in the works | 22:29 |
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| danny_mk | I have seen conversations on here about a reCaptcha implementation, just waiting until it is done | 22:29 |
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| +BartJol | ah, once again I'm too slow :) | 22:29 |
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| SDuensin | ssh is angering me greatly. | 22:31 |
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| danny_mk | perlDreamer: would love to know what his thoughts are on the Auth interface | 22:32 |
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| * plainhao assumes SDuesin restarted ssh? | 22:32 |
| SDuensin | Yup. | 22:32 |
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| SDuensin | The only clue I get is on the client side: subsystem request failed on channel 0 | 22:33 |
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| SDuensin | I checked the location of my sftp-server binary, made sure world can execute it, restarted ssh again. | 22:33 |
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| +perlDreamer | danny_mk, given that I talked about Auth in my Common WebGUI Programming Mistakes talk last year, I'd say it's just due for a complete overhaul and modernization. | 22:33 |
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| danny_mk | is there a public document I can read on the new implementation? | 22:33 |
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| +perlDreamer | no | 22:35 |
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| danny_mk | guess I will have to wait until 8.x.x | 22:35 |
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| +perlDreamer | I have the feeling that he knows what he wants to change, but hasn't formalized anything yet | 22:35 |
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| danny_mk | perlDreamer: is there a video of your talk about "Common WebGUI Programming Mistakes"? specifically about Auth | 22:45 |
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| SDuensin | Ok, I figured out my ssh problem. I was being stupid. It's "sshd_config", not "ssh_config"! Doh! | 22:46 |
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| +perlDreamer | yes, it's on wgtv | 22:46 |
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| +perlDreamer | or should be soon | 22:46 |
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| danny_mk | looking there now | 22:46 |
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| danny_mk | 2008 right? | 22:47 |
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| @rizen | bopbop is putting up a bunch of new vids this week so it may be in that grouping | 22:49 |
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| +perlDreamer | 2008, yes | 22:49 |
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| @bopbop | it's not up yet, but it can be | 22:49 |
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| @bopbop | I'll look for the tape tonight | 22:49 |
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| @rizen | if it's not already out there and it's not in that grouping then you'll have to wait on it. we only put out a few new vids per month | 22:49 |
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| danny_mk | OK | 22:50 |
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| +perlDreamer | rizen, if you have time, you might want to read back through the logs and make sure I didn't mislead danny_mk about the new Auth in wG 8. | 22:51 |
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| danny_mk | rizen: any interest in a OpenId presentation? | 22:51 |
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| @rizen | danny_mk: do you mean for WUC 2009? | 22:51 |
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| danny_mk | yes | 22:51 |
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| @rizen | absolutely | 22:51 |
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| danny_mk | I want to make sure I can take some time off the week of the conference, the sooner we find out when and where the better chance I will have to attend | 22:52 |
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| @rizen | you can demo the module you've created, talk about open id in general and why it's good, and maybe even show off openid in WebGUI 8 | 22:52 |
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| danny_mk | NY would be great :-) | 22:52 |
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| @rizen | it's in madison wi | 22:52 |
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| +BartJol | the concourse hotel to be precise | 22:54 |
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| @rizen | september 9-11 | 22:54 |
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| @rizen | wed - fri | 22:54 |
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| @rizen | that's when it will be | 22:54 |
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| topsub | /cheer | 22:54 |
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| danny_mk | OK | 22:54 |
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| +perlDreamer | back to a 3-day format? is does that include tutorials? | 22:54 |
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| +BartJol | ah, he's hoping that the dutchies will crash into a building | 22:55 |
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| +BartJol | sorry, bad taste alert | 22:56 |
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| +perlDreamer | not a problem, BartJol. | 22:58 |
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| +perlDreamer | InterPol will be there in 10 minutes in any case | 22:58 |
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| +BartJol | here, or at JT's house? | 22:59 |
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| @rizen | yes, 3 day format | 23:00 |
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| @rizen | and yes it will include workshops | 23:00 |
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| +BartJol | cool | 23:00 |
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| @rizen | 3 days, 3 tracks | 23:00 |
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| +BartJol | whoa, that will be busy | 23:00 |
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| danny_mk | Hmmm... when do I get some of that juicy OpenId rfe karma :-) | 23:05 |
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| SDuensin | Hey perlDreamer - This script finds my duplicates, but how to I write what I want back to the database using the nice and safe API? http://webgui.pastebin.com/m351280fa | 23:05 |
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| @rizen | danny_mk every time you update it in the bazaar you get karma | 23:06 |
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| @rizen | and if you are featured as PBWG you get karma | 23:07 |
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| @rizen | which you should probably be (bopbop please add danny_mk to the list for PBWG) | 23:07 |
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| @rizen | and this year, for the first time, you'll get karma for both attending and presenting at the wuc | 23:08 |
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| +BartJol | it's a list? I thought I was special ;) | 23:08 |
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| @rizen | yes BartJol you are forever the only PBWG | 23:08 |
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| @rizen | =) | 23:08 |
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| +BartJol | rather not, I'm getting fraked out by my own picture | 23:08 |
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| -!- topsub [n=josh@97.66.185.250] has quit ["Leaving"] | 23:10 |
| danny_mk | I still have to write the tests for the Auth module, probably using WWW::Mechanize, that may be a bit of a challenge. | 23:20 |
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| +crythias1 | hrm. | 23:22 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: jt * r9154 /experimental/Automat/sbin/migration/checkXrcVsAutomat.pl: test | 23:27 |
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| SDuensin | Go Go Automat! | 23:29 |
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| @rizen | danny_mk: http://www.webgui.org/wuc/2009-call-for-participation | 23:32 |
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| danny_mk | Hmmm... I have never written a bio | 23:33 |
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| danny_mk | I guess I will have to write one now, | 23:33 |
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| danny_mk | brb | 23:34 |
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| +perlDreamer | danny_mk, the bios can be very informal | 23:39 |
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| danny_mk | Would a title like: The OpenId::Auth module be OK? | 23:40 |
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| +perlDreamer | danny_mk is a canary-judging, perl hacking machine who lives in $self->getHome and dreams of a world where OpenId is the auth mechanism of choice | 23:40 |
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| danny_mk | of course not very creative :-( | 23:40 |
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| danny_mk | LOL | 23:40 |
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| danny_mk | hmmm... I like that :-) | 23:41 |
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| danny_mk | I think I will use it | 23:41 |
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| SDuensin | Hey perlDreamer - This script finds my duplicates, but how to I write what I want back to the database using the nice and safe API? http://webgui.pastebin.com/m351280fa | 23:41 |
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| elnino | Hi. My network administrator wants to move our production webserver to a virtual host. I cringe at the thought. Do others have thoughts about having production servers on virtual servers? I suppose as long as the hardware can support it and the other virtual servers it's fine? | 23:44 |
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| +perlDreamer | SDuensin: use the deleteCollateral method to remove the duplicate | 23:45 |
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| elnino | server would be running zen server and may have four virtual servers. | 23:45 |
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| +perlDreamer | the problem being, of course, if you have duplicate ids in the JSON that it might return either entry | 23:45 |
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| SDuensin | Does setCollateral not check for dupes? Pretty sure that's what got me in trouble here. | 23:45 |
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| +perlDreamer | setCollateral does not care | 23:46 |
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| SDuensin | Then it is EVIL! :-) | 23:47 |
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| +perlDreamer | Do you own a hammer? | 23:47 |
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| SDuensin | Why, yes. I just fixed a Big Wheel with it. | 23:47 |
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| +perlDreamer | Then you know that if you hit a window with it that bad things will happen. | 23:47 |
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| SDuensin | Bad things always happen in Windows. | 23:48 |
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| +perlDreamer | The hammer will not arrest its movement if you use it the wrong way | 23:48 |
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| SDuensin | Hey man, I just used some crazy dude's sample code. :-P | 23:48 |
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| * perlDreamer remembers that he's probably responsible for the sample code | 23:48 |
| * SDuensin grins | 23:49 |
| +crythias1 | elnino I'm running on vps | 23:49 |
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| +crythias1 | serveraxis | 23:49 |
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| +crythias1 | although, it's pretty much all that's running, WebGUI is doing OK on it. | 23:50 |
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| elnino | So, should I take webgui's requirements and multiply it by four? at least when he goes buying the server? | 23:50 |
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| +BartJol | perlDreamer: I've got one again: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/9402 | 23:51 |
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| +crythias1 | elnino: I think I've missed your requirements. | 23:51 |
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| elnino | welll, webgui's requirements. =) | 23:51 |
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| elnino | right now, it's on it's own server, and I have no idea what else he wants to put on the other virtual servers. | 23:52 |
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| +crythias1 | yes, but are you doing 4 webgui sites one per vps, one webgui per four vps, or 4 on one? | 23:52 |
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| elnino | so I figured it should be four time more powerful of a server. =) | 23:52 |
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| elnino | no, i have two sites on one install of webgui - on one virtual server. | 23:52 |
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| elnino | but it's our corporate website. | 23:52 |
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| +crythias1 | is the intention to use your own hardware or outsource? | 23:52 |
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| elnino | own hardware. | 23:52 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: translation * r9155 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Asset_Matrix.pm: Update from translation server | 23:53 |
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| +crythias1 | then I'd say quadruple webgui. Otherwise, I'd scale as needed from outsource. I'm paying $65/month for unmetered vps, forinstance. | 23:54 |
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| +perlDreamer | BartJol: done | 23:54 |
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| +perlDreamer | fix will be out with the next release | 23:54 |
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| +BartJol | darn, you're quick | 23:54 |
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| +crythias1 | erm.. $60 | 23:54 |
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| +crythias1 | http://serveraxis.com/vps.php 1gb RAM, 100GB hd, 10mbit unmetered bandwidth. | 23:55 |
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| @rizen | elnino: here's a good rule of thumb | 23:56 |
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| @rizen | 1 core x 1gb ram will give you about 20,000 page views per day while keeping your load under 1.0 | 23:56 |
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| @rizen | the same logic works on a vps | 23:57 |
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| +perlDreamer | that's 1 page view every 5 seconds | 23:58 |
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| @rizen | the same logic works on a vps except that the VPS has it's IO tied up by the other slices | 23:58 |
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| @rizen | perlDreamer: yeah i know, but it takes into account a few things like page complexity, background processing (workflow), etc | 23:59 |
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| @rizen | and keeping the load under 1.0 | 23:59 |
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| elnino | can you explian "under 1.0" 1.0 of what? | 23:59 |
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| @rizen | which means that you're not stressing the server at all | 23:59 |
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| @rizen | load is a hard thing to define elnino | 23:59 |
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| elnino | what do you use to measure load? | 23:59 |
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| --- Day changed Tue Jan 06 2009 |
| @rizen | but generally speaking a load of 1.0 or less means that the server is not being taxed | 00:00 |
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| @rizen | type w | 00:00 |
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| SDuensin | It's the number of processes waiting to run in the task queue, isn't it? | 00:00 |
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| @rizen | at the command line | 00:00 |
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| @rizen | no | 00:00 |
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| +perlDreamer | uptime | 00:00 |
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| @rizen | a load of 1 means that the server is not having to "share" compute cycles between processes | 00:00 |
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| @rizen | as in it's able to process everything in real time | 00:00 |
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| +perlDreamer | SDuensin, please pastebin me some bad product variant JSON so i can see it | 00:01 |
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| SDuensin | Right. Nothing is stacked up. | 00:01 |
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| SDuensin | perlDreamer - Sure. | 00:01 |
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| @rizen | that gets fuzzy though, when you start talking about threading, multiple-cores, hyperthreading, multiple CPU's etc | 00:01 |
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| SDuensin | rizen - true | 00:01 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | Anyone want to join in on the quest to figure out a robust solution to the SC's synopsis regex's and wide chars? The regex hangs on byte strings like Arabic. | 00:01 |
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| SDuensin | perlDreamer - Here's the last one in my database: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m50a50c9e | 00:02 |
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| +perlDreamer | SDuensin, if they're all exact duplicates like that, then deleteCollateral will work fine | 00:04 |
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| +BartJol | perlDreamer: and another : http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/9403 | 00:04 |
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| SDuensin | It won't take them both? | 00:04 |
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| +perlDreamer | no | 00:05 |
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| @rizen | anyway elnino, the point was that the number of sites on your server is pretty much irrelevant, it's more about the number of page views you're dealing with vs the amount of hardware that you have available, vs how much load you can stomach | 00:05 |
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| * SDuensin didn't look up the source yet. | 00:05 |
| +perlDreamer | it finds the first index | 00:05 |
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| SDuensin | perlDreamer - Excellent. Thanks bud! (I *will* back up first!) | 00:05 |
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| @rizen | i like to keep the load on our servers to less than 1.0 during normal usage so that we have plenty of resources available during peak usage | 00:05 |
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| +perlDreamer | You're welcome. especially since I helped create the mess that you're in... | 00:05 |
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| @rizen | however, many people run their servers at a much higher load | 00:05 |
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| elnino | thanks rizen... I had to step to the phone, but am back.. Does the vps server up as the virtual servers need? or does it say "you get this you get that, and that's it"? | 00:06 |
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| SDuensin | perlDreamer - No worries. :-) | 00:06 |
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| @rizen | elnino: most of them define fixed resources in advance | 00:07 |
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| elnino | ah. good to know... | 00:07 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | load average: 10.06, 10.45, 8.91 :D | 00:07 |
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| elnino | is that high? the server I'm look at is: load average: 0.00, 0.02, 0.00 ;P | 00:08 |
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| @rizen | perlmonkey2: is that one of our servers? if so i'm wondeirng why we aren't being paged | 00:08 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | rizen: no, my server | 00:08 |
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| elnino | but that is a different server than what I'm talking about. I'm curious as to what that one is.... | 00:08 |
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| elnino | .42, .37, .23,, I'm thinking I don't have much to worry about at this time... | 00:09 |
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| elnino | or is that the load my user is causing at this particular time? | 00:09 |
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| @rizen | that's just your load over the last 10 minutes or so | 00:10 |
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| @rizen | you should check it several times through-out the day | 00:10 |
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| @rizen | and if you know when your peak usage is, you should check the load at that time | 00:10 |
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| +BartJol | perlmonkey2: I suppose you also made the i18n for the survey? | 00:10 |
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| elnino | it's be nice if there was a report of the load. that can be emailed me each day. Any suggested software? | 00:10 |
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| +BartJol | what do you mean with Section branch goto variable name: | 00:11 |
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| +BartJol | I think I understand | 00:11 |
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| +BartJol | but not sure | 00:11 |
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| @rizen | elnino: what you want is SNMP monitoring with graphing | 00:12 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | BartJol: the end of a section can branch, but needs a variable name to go to. Questions and sections have variable names, and the target variable name would go into the goto variable name. | 00:12 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | BartJol: patspam has made that a drop down and will be merged at the next oppurtunity. The drop down should make it much easier to understand. | 00:12 |
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| @rizen | the most common free one on the net is MRTG | 00:12 |
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| @rizen | http://oss.oetiker.ch/mrtg/ | 00:12 |
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| elnino | great! thanks! I'll look into that. | 00:13 |
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| @rizen | but you still have to set it u | 00:13 |
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| @rizen | up | 00:13 |
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| +BartJol | thanks perlmonkey2 | 00:13 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | BartJol: anything for you Bart :P | 00:14 |
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| elnino | rizen. that's for when we own the hardware and router. My network guy most likely has something setup like that. if not, I'll recommend it to him. Do you recommend anything when the hardware is outsourced? I work with both situations (own and outsourced). | 00:15 |
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| +BartJol | ok then: drop your trousers | 00:15 |
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| +BartJol | and what is a terminal in the survey perlmonkey2 | 00:16 |
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| +BartJol | ? | 00:16 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | a URL | 00:16 |
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| +BartJol | and a terminal section? | 00:16 |
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| elnino | rizen, that first sentence was supposed to be a question.... | 00:17 |
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| +BartJol | perlmonkey2: what is a terminal section? | 00:18 |
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| @rizen | elnino: you can use mrtg with that...but there are other tools too when you want to do more stuff | 00:19 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | BartJol: a section which upon completion will end the survey and if there is a survey or section terminal url given, it will forward to that url. | 00:19 |
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| @rizen | like OpenNMS for example | 00:19 |
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| @rizen | at Plain Black we use Zabbix | 00:19 |
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| +BartJol | ok, that's clear | 00:20 |
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| @rizen | it does monitoring, and we can also use it for data trending | 00:20 |
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| @rizen | like monitoring load activity on servers and generating pretty graphs | 00:20 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: colin * r9156 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix a typo in the i18n help for the ITransact Pay Driver. | 00:20 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: colin * r9157 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): backporting i18n fix for PayDriver ITransact. | 00:20 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: translation * r9158 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (Shop.pm Asset_MatrixListing.pm PayDriver_ITransact.pm): Update from translation server | 00:20 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: colin * r9159 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (12 files in 3 dirs): | 00:20 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: Large batch of Help and i18n. Also, make sure that the | 00:20 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: Shop plugin for the Account always has an array ref in it. | 00:20 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: colin * r9160 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix some Survey i18n typos in the time limit hoverhelp. | 00:20 |
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| +BartJol | well, I'm up at a 100% again, luckily it will be a lot lower later this week | 00:22 |
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| +BartJol | so go ahead perlDreamer, make my day | 00:29 |
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| +perlDreamer | I'm just trying to keep you gainfully employed, BartJol | 00:29 |
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| +BartJol | too bad it is scrapped from my duties at procolix | 00:30 |
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| +perlDreamer | huh? | 00:31 |
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| +perlDreamer | no way! | 00:31 |
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| +BartJol | way | 00:33 |
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| +BartJol | now I've gotta find a way to make it fun | 00:34 |
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| +BartJol | allthough I don't mind finding the typ-o's in the english i18n | 00:35 |
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| +BartJol | it gives me lots of karma :) | 00:35 |
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| +perlDreamer | 10 karma for each typo | 00:39 |
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| +perlDreamer | Do you know why your job responsibilities changed? | 00:40 |
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| +BartJol | well, I don't think we really get more customers from translating WebGUI and it takes huge amounts of time | 00:41 |
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| +BartJol | it's a money thing | 00:41 |
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| elnino | rizen - dang phone.... thanks for the info! | 00:41 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: translation * r9161 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Asset_Survey.pm: Update from translation server | 00:50 |
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| +BartJol | morning Radix-wrk | 01:29 |
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| CIA-45 | WebGUI: translation * r9162 /translations/German/German/Account_Inbox.pm: Update from translation server | 07:36 |
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| bernd__ | Hey BartJol! | 12:58 |
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| bernd__ | Sorry for my sudden disappearance yesterday. | 12:58 |
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| bernd__ | But I was not at home. | 12:58 |
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| +BartJol | hey | 12:59 |
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| +BartJol | don't mind, and you did announce your accu going low | 13:00 |
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| bernd__ | You mean battery :-) | 13:00 |
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| +BartJol | yeah :) | 13:00 |
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| bernd__ | BartJol, does procolix rent out root servers? | 13:01 |
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| +BartJol | so you wanna have root access? | 13:01 |
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| +BartJol | I have to ask | 13:02 |
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| +BartJol | but you have limited garantuees | 13:03 |
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| +BartJol | I mean, yes we do, but you have limited garantuees | 13:03 |
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| +BartJol | bernd__: if you want to have an offer just mail us | 13:07 |
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| +BartJol | I was gonna say invoice :) | 13:08 |
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| bernd2 | BartJol, I think I missed your reply. | 13:09 |
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| +BartJol | prolly you missed my comments | 13:09 |
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| bernd2 | My connection was interrupted. | 13:09 |
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| +BartJol | BartJol: so you wanna have root access? | 13:09 |
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| +BartJol | BartJol: I have to ask | 13:09 |
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| +BartJol | BartJol: but you have limited garantuees | 13:09 |
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| +BartJol | BartJol: I mean, yes we do, but you have limited garantuees | 13:09 |
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| +BartJol | BartJol: bernd__: if you want to have an offer just mail us | 13:09 |
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| +BartJol | BartJol: I was gonna say invoice :) | 13:09 |
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| bernd2 | Do you have a rough idea how much you bill per month? | 13:10 |
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| +BartJol | actually, no | 13:10 |
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| +BartJol | SynQ's the man for that | 13:11 |
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| bernd2 | This is the best offer I have found so far: http://www.junior-server.de/ | 13:11 |
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| bernd2 | The plans for EUR29 and EUR39 are interesting to me. | 13:11 |
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| bernd2 | Do you think procolix could compete with that? | 13:11 |
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| +BartJol | I would have to ask | 13:12 |
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| +BartJol | and it is lunchtime | 13:12 |
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| bernd2 | Better to send an email to Koen? | 13:12 |
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| +BartJol | yeah | 13:12 |
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| +BartJol | with some specs | 13:12 |
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| bernd2 | Good. Going to do that then. | 13:12 |
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| +BartJol | you'll get a VM | 13:12 |
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| +BartJol | prolly | 13:12 |
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| bernd2 | What does "prolly" mean? | 13:13 |
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| +BartJol | probably | 13:13 |
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| bernd2 | Ah, I have looked it up. | 13:13 |
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| bernd2 | You spend too much time on the chat with those Americans. | 13:13 |
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| +BartJol | :) | 13:13 |
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| bernd2 | I assume it is perlDreamer who is spoiling your English. | 13:14 |
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| +BartJol | I learned that from martin | 13:14 |
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| +BartJol | fooood | 13:14 |
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| bernd2 | Guten Appetit! | 13:15 |
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| bernd2 | How to say that in dutch? | 13:15 |
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| +BartJol | plainhao: you're an early morning type | 13:54 |
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| @plainhao | not really :) | 14:00 |
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| +BartJol | but, you're the new dev guy/girl? | 14:01 |
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| @plainhao | yep | 14:01 |
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| +BartJol | nice | 14:01 |
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| @plainhao | how long did it take you to get comfortable with webgui? | 14:02 |
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| +BartJol | well, my story is quite strange and long | 14:02 |
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| @plainhao | oh, haha | 14:02 |
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| +BartJol | I started with translating, then moved to front end support | 14:02 |
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| +BartJol | now I'm moving into the backend area | 14:03 |
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| +BartJol | but without a lot of programming experience, this is taking its fair amount of time | 14:03 |
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| @plainhao | good thing there's documentation | 14:04 |
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| +BartJol | yeah and when I code, I just steal ideas from existing code | 14:04 |
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| @preaction | it took me 6-8 months really | 14:06 |
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| @plainhao | ok | 14:06 |
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| @preaction | and i cursed just about everybody on the way | 14:06 |
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| @plainhao | haha, even rizen? | 14:06 |
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| @preaction | especially jt | 14:06 |
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| +BartJol | yeah, but you have a natural ability for cursing preaction | 14:06 |
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| @preaction | if it's story time: Version 5 of WG was not object oriented. the session "object" was a globally-scoped hash | 14:07 |
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| @preaction | i wasn;t here for that, thank god | 14:07 |
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| @plainhao | that sounds ok to me :) | 14:07 |
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| @preaction | heh, you do mason work then? | 14:08 |
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| @plainhao | a little bit | 14:08 |
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| @preaction | $::session{url} <- the $:: construct was introduced to me with mason | 14:08 |
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| @preaction | i believe the problem became mod-perl's handling of globally-scoped variables (they never hit the GC) | 14:09 |
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| @plainhao | yeah | 14:09 |
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| @preaction | but the real problem is in the design: a global is a piece of magic | 14:09 |
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| @plainhao | well, you just have to put a lot of trust in the developers | 14:10 |
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| @preaction | that's a good idea for a small project with few developers under your direct control | 14:10 |
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| @preaction | webgui is a large project, a framework plus a CMS, with diverse developers and a community of contributers who have varying levels of programming experience with languages other than Perl | 14:10 |
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| @preaction | so the strictly perly constructs can lead to problems | 14:11 |
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| @preaction | but foremost the api/framework must remain safe from the casual errors of programmers (if not also the maliious intents of programmers) | 14:12 |
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| * plainhao agrees | 14:13 |
| @preaction | that being said, there is a WebGUI Developer's Guide that does a very good job of reaching in-between the lines of the POD | 14:13 |
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| @preaction | which you're entitled to as a pb employee, and which may in fact already be on its way to your house | 14:14 |
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| @preaction | i believe that jamie vrbsky (vrby) would be the person to ask about that, or frank | 14:14 |
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| * plainhao thinks frank sent them yesterday | 14:15 |
| +BartJol | preaction: do you think it can harm if I manually delete complete workflowinstances from the db? | 14:15 |
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| +BartJol | were reaching to 300 a page of them | 14:15 |
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| @preaction | BartJol: yes. "complete" means one activity completed. "done" means all activities are completed | 14:16 |
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| +BartJol | mmm | 14:16 |
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| +BartJol | but they don't seem to get done | 14:16 |
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| @preaction | you might want to check which activity is next | 14:16 |
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| @preaction | there's a lastCompleted field i think | 14:16 |
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| @preaction | lastActivity maybe? | 14:16 |
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| +BartJol | lastStatus | 14:17 |
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| @preaction | then match that one up to the activityId in the WorkflowActivity table | 14:17 |
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| +BartJol | and currentActivityId | 14:17 |
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| @preaction | current, yes | 14:17 |
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| +BartJol | ah | 14:17 |
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| @preaction | if they're all the same, something strange might be happening, or perhaps there's too much to complete | 14:17 |
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| +BartJol | well most of them are to get syndicated content | 14:20 |
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| +BartJol | 310 of 330 | 14:21 |
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| +BartJol | but that's in 1 site, but the rest seem to be compliant to that | 14:24 |
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| @preaction | do you have 310 syndicated content assets in that site? | 14:26 |
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| +BartJol | nope, as far as I know none | 14:26 |
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| +BartJol | it's just in the hourly workflow\ | 14:27 |
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| +BartJol | here's a list of the queries I got in the log at debug level: http://www.webgui.org/etcetera/database-cache-gives-an-error/6#id3RRcYPlQPdndEB62BJJEgg | 14:29 |
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| +BartJol | mm, there's a PB asset in there, maybe that should be purged | 14:30 |
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| @preaction | BartJol: does the workflow instance id "qjHOGGdOUU56GNmJAYaPDQ" still exist in your database? | 14:33 |
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| +BartJol | no | 14:35 |
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| +BartJol | mysql> select * from WorkflowInstance where instanceId="qjHOGGdOUU56GNmJAYaPDQ"; | 14:35 |
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| +BartJol | Empty set (0.01 sec) | 14:35 |
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| +BartJol | sorry, wrong db | 14:37 |
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| +BartJol | confusing when you remove the site name\ | 14:38 |
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| +BartJol | no it does not | 14:42 |
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| +BartJol | even in the right db | 14:42 |
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| +BartJol | sorry that it took some time preaction | 14:45 |
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| @preaction | then they are getting deleted eventually. perhaps you need to set spectre to run through workflows more quickly? | 14:46 |
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| +BartJol | ok spectre settings: | 14:50 |
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| +BartJol | "maxWorkers" : 4, | 14:50 |
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| +BartJol | "timeBetweenRunningWorkflows" : 10, | 14:50 |
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| +BartJol | "suspensionDelay" : 60, | 14:50 |
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| +BartJol | "ignoreEnvProxy" : 0 | 14:50 |
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| +BartJol | after consulting the administrator guide I set the timebetween workflows to 4 sec | 14:54 |
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| +BartJol | now running spectre in debug mode | 14:56 |
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| +BartJol | with this amount of workflow a setting of 2 seemed even better | 14:59 |
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| CIA-46 | WebGUI: yung * r9163 /branch/survey-rfe/ (4 files in 2 dirs): rfe 9198: Turn Survey Edit Section/Question/Answer fields into RTEs | 15:51 |
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| +BartJol | preaction: the amount of workflows seems to steadily decrease at a rate of 20-25 sites a minute | 16:35 |
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| +BartJol | only 9 hours and it should be around 0 again... | 16:37 |
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| SDuensin | Greetings. | 18:04 |
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| +BartJol | morning SDuensin | 18:05 |
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| elnino_laptop | hi. did the new gallery get released yet? or is that 7.6? | 18:10 |
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| SDuensin | Hi elnino_laptop. Dunno that one. | 18:11 |
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| +BartJol | isn't that even 7.5? | 18:13 |
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| +BartJol | or will there be another gallery too? | 18:14 |
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| elnino_laptop | it is. but I just saw this http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/roadmap, so I'll read up on when gallery 2.0 will be expected. | 18:18 |
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| SDuensin | I'm gonna guess "when it's done". | 18:19 |
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| elnino_laptop | yeah, I just saw this: "Also, please do not contact Plain Black about release dates for these features. We don't publish them, and we won't tell you if you ask." Even thought they did announce at wuc, I just don't remember what version they talked about. | 18:20 |
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| -!- bernd_ [n=spunky@88.128.20.80] has joined #webgui | 18:23 |
| -!- BartJol [n=plainstu@194.171.50.123] has left #webgui [] | 18:30 |
| -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-235-27.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui | 18:35 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ | 18:35 |
| CIA-46 | WebGUI: translation * r9164 /translations/German/German/Asset_GalleryAlbum.pm: Update from translation server | 18:41 |
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| bernd_ | perlDreamer, is there any reason that all the help modules are named "<something> variables"? | 18:55 |
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| bernd_ | The word "variables" seems pretty superfluous to me. | 18:55 |
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| bernd_ | I am thinking to get rid of it in the German translation. | 18:55 |
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| bernd_ | What do you think? | 18:55 |
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| +perlDreamer | I'm not following you bernd_. Can you give me 1 example? | 18:55 |
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| bernd_ | I am talking about modules listed in the help overview. | 18:56 |
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| bernd_ | Example: Matrix Main Template Variables | 18:56 |
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| bernd_ | Isn't it all about variables? | 18:56 |
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| +perlDreamer | I see. At one point, there were other entries too. | 18:57 |
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| +perlDreamer | then they got removed | 18:57 |
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| bernd_ | Do you think there will be other entries, again? | 18:57 |
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| SDuensin | Hey gang. | 18:57 |
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| +perlDreamer | I don't think so | 18:57 |
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| bernd_ | Currently, it just makes names longer. | 18:57 |
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| bernd_ | So, safe to remove it? | 18:57 |
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| bernd_ | The same is probably true for "template". | 18:58 |
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| jmarsden | bernd_: I made a test JEOS VM last night, and the webgui .deb works fine in it. See http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/dev/discuss/poll-wre-utilities-as-a-distribution/14 | 18:59 |
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| bernd_ | Cool! | 18:59 |
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| bernd_ | I am thinking about creating an appliance based on JeOS. | 19:00 |
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| * plainhao 's laptop fan is spinning out of control. | 19:00 |
| bernd_ | That will be a good testing ground. | 19:00 |
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| bernd_ | jmarsden, thanks for the good work! | 19:00 |
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| -!- plainhao [n=plainhao@mail.xbiotica.com] has quit [] | 19:00 |
| bernd_ | I am really happy about ubuntu packages being available now. | 19:00 |
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| SDuensin | They are? Cool! | 19:00 |
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| bernd_ | SDuensin, check the URL he just posted. | 19:00 |
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| SDuensin | In a product, how do I get the keywords associated with it? I've looked over the code for product, sku, and asset and can't find it. | 19:01 |
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| jmarsden | No problem. I also heard back from Ernesto in email, I found one minor bug in his packaging... we're talking -- hopefully we can work together to get the .deb officially into both Debian and Ubuntu | 19:01 |
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| bernd_ | Even better! | 19:02 |
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| bernd_ | I just read you have prepared an image already. | 19:02 |
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| bernd_ | Ever tried to run with kvm? | 19:02 |
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| bernd_ | I learned JeOS is optimized either for kvm or vmware. | 19:03 |
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| +perlDreamer | SDuensin, check the process method in Asset.pm | 19:03 |
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| SDuensin | perlDreamer - checking! Thanks. | 19:03 |
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| -!- plainhao [n=plainhao@mail.xbiotica.com] has joined #webgui | 19:03 |
| -!- mode/#webgui [+o plainhao] by ChanServ | 19:03 |
| @tavisto | plainhao, you know about the smcfan control app for mac right? It's pretty cool if you want to control your fan speed & cpu temp | 19:04 |
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| jmarsden | bernd_: I don't have a CPU with the VM hardware (my desktop is an E5200), so no, I have not used KVM. I use virtualbox-ose mostly for VMs under Linux. | 19:04 |
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| bernd_ | What is the best virtualization environment according to your experience? | 19:05 |
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| SDuensin | perlDreamer - Dunno how I missed that. Thanks bud! | 19:05 |
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| * SDuensin uses a LOT of VMware. | 19:05 |
| +perlDreamer | SDuensin, you're welcome | 19:05 |
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| SDuensin | For Linux-on-Linux, something like Xen is probably more efficient. But for general VMs (I even have a DOS one running), VMWare server is my favorite. | 19:06 |
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| bernd_ | But vmware is not free, correct? | 19:06 |
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| bernd_ | It is just the vmplayer. | 19:06 |
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| jmarsden | It's all a matter of "best for what", I think. VMware is everywhere and runs under Windows as well, which is good for appliances intended as "try it and see" tools for newcomers. I need to go to work now (!), but hopefully will post info on creating the image with vmbuilder later -- then people can build an image using KVM or VMware or whatever they prefer | 19:06 |
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| SDuensin | perlDreamer - rather than enter all those ring sizes by hand, I'm doing another script. :-) | 19:07 |
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| jmarsden | VMware Server 2 is now no-cost. It is not free as it free software... | 19:07 |
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| bernd_ | Great! | 19:07 |
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| bernd_ | I am probably going to be your first tester! | 19:07 |
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| bernd_ | Looking forward to it. | 19:07 |
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| SDuensin | Yep! I run VMWare Server 2.0 on my main server. That's all it does. Any actual services are in VMs. | 19:07 |
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| SDuensin | Makes upgrading easy. Build a bigger, faster machine - just copy the VMs over. | 19:07 |
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| SDuensin | Anyway, BBIAB. | 19:08 |
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| jmarsden | OK, sounds good. Nice to "meet" you folks here on IRC. I'm off to work... bye for now! | 19:08 |
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| bernd_ | SDuensin, do you need an IP per guest? | 19:08 |
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| bernd_ | Or is it possible to get around that. | 19:08 |
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| bernd_ | ? | 19:08 |
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| jmarsden | I suspect you could put each image on a Host-only "virtual network" inside the host machine and then route stuff port by port from the real LAN to different VMs... but I have not tried that; I just use bridged mode and one IP per VM here. | 19:12 |
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| -!- bernd__ [n=spunky@tmo-082-156.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #webgui | 19:15 |
| -!- bernd__ is now known as bernd2 | 19:15 |
| +perlDreamer | what's what this world needs, more bernd's | 19:16 |
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| -!- CIA-46 [n=CIA@208.69.182.149] has quit [Remote closed the connection] | 19:16 |
| bernd2 | Now we have two at least! | 19:16 |
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| +perlDreamer | and a young one in development | 19:16 |
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| bernd2 | perlDreamer, can you kick bernd_, pleas? | 19:16 |
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| +perlDreamer | I am without kick privileges | 19:16 |
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| bernd2 | She is rather an Anke (her mother). | 19:16 |
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| bernd2 | Hm, can I kick my former self myself? | 19:17 |
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| +perlDreamer | I think you have to be a channel op | 19:17 |
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| bernd2 | :-( | 19:17 |
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| * bernd2 hates wireless connections. | 19:18 |
| +perlDreamer | tavisto: could you please do a "slash kick bernd_" ? | 19:18 |
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| -!- bernd_ was kicked from #webgui by rizen [rizen] | 19:18 |
| @tavisto | I'd rather do a slash kick perlDreamer | 19:18 |
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| bernd2 | Thanks, rizen! | 19:18 |
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| bernd2 | Was probably fun kicking me =) | 19:19 |
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| @tavisto | and then a reverse roundhouse kick to finish him off.... like chuck norris | 19:19 |
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| +perlDreamer | tavisto, I thought you'd prefer a hack slash punch perlDreamer | 19:19 |
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| bernd2 | What about the "chop into pieces" part? | 19:19 |
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| +perlDreamer | chopped perlDreamers are not good at fixing bugs | 19:20 |
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| +perlDreamer | but the bruised and bloody ones seem to get by | 19:20 |
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| SDuensin | bernd2 - I use an IP per guest, yes. You can do different network types: Bridged, NAT, and Host Only... | 19:26 |
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| bernd2 | Thanks. | 19:27 |
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| SDuensin | Bridged is like a real PC. It gets it's own IP. | 19:27 |
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| -!- CIA-46 [n=CIA@208.69.182.149] has joined #WebGUI | 19:27 |
| bernd2 | I am going to try them all :-) | 19:27 |
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| SDuensin | NAT shares the IP of the host, but is outbound only. | 19:27 |
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| bernd2 | Is it difficult to get additional IPs for a root server? | 19:27 |
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| SDuensin | Host Only assigns a private IP on a network only available to the host and the VM. | 19:27 |
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| bernd2 | Talking about public ones. | 19:27 |
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| -!- CIA-46 [n=CIA@208.69.182.149] has quit [Remote closed the connection] | 19:28 |
| SDuensin | Depends on who the provider is. Most will allow you to purchase more if you can justify them. | 19:28 |
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| bernd2 | For hosting of multiple webgui appliances on a single root server you would require an IP per appliance, correct? | 19:29 |
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| SDuensin | Yep. | 19:29 |
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| bernd2 | Good. Or rather bad. But now I know for sure. | 19:30 |
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| bernd2 | Thanks. | 19:30 |
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| SDuensin | hehe | 19:30 |
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| SDuensin | Like I said, most places will sell you additional IPs (I think my second one is a whole dollar a month) if you can justify the need. | 19:30 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | bernd2: you can /nick your ghost | 19:30 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | in the future | 19:30 |
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| bernd2 | Ah. I will try to remember! | 19:31 |
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| bernd2 | Thanks. | 19:31 |
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| -!- CIA-46 [n=CIA@208.69.182.149] has joined #WebGUI | 19:34 |
| SDuensin | Man, it's killing me to add all these variants. Maybe I need to spend time on 'Plan B'. | 19:40 |
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| deafferret | SDuensin: joining the circus? | 19:42 |
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| +perlDreamer | what is Plan B? | 19:44 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | SDuensin: What's plan B? | 19:47 |
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| SDuensin | Add an optional "Size" field. | 19:48 |
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| SDuensin | I can't have variant lists with 100+ items in them. Users are gonna freak out. | 19:49 |
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| bernd2 | perlDreamer, helpvar_albums and helpvar_albums_rss in Asset_Gallery.pm show the same help text. | 20:00 |
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| bernd2 | Is that a bug? | 20:00 |
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| +perlDreamer | you bet it is! | 20:00 |
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| bernd2 | Ticket? | 20:01 |
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| +perlDreamer | please | 20:01 |
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| bernd2 | perlDreamer, I am going to see Klaus in a few minutes. | 20:11 |
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| bernd2 | Do you want me to say hello? | 20:11 |
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| +perlDreamer | Please do. | 20:12 |
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| CIA-46 | WebGUI: translation * r9165 /translations/German/German/ (Asset_Gallery.pm Asset_GalleryAlbum.pm): Update from translation server | 20:12 |
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| bernd2 | Happy hacking until midnight! | 20:12 |
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| SDuensin | The Cart isn't pluggable, eh? Hmm. | 20:12 |
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| bernd2 | I am gone for today. | 20:12 |
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| SDuensin | Later bernd2 | 20:12 |
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| +perlDreamer | later, bernd2 | 20:12 |
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| -!- bernd2 [n=spunky@tmo-082-156.customers.d1-online.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] | 20:12 |
| * SDuensin just doesn't know where to stick this extra data. | 20:12 |
| +perlDreamer | add it to the variant data, maybe? | 20:14 |
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| * plainhao thanks tavisto for suggesting smcfan control, installed a similar pref pane earlier (fan control). | 20:15 |
| * SDuensin will have to learn more before attempting that. | 20:18 |
| -!- jmarsden|work [n=jmarsden@dsl-64-30-208-236.static.linkline.com] has joined #webgui | 20:34 |
| elnino | is the roadmap page on webgui.org still things to come or are some of those already released? | 20:56 |
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| -!- carogray1 [n=Caroline@c-76-24-169-61.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #webgui | 20:59 |
| * perlDreamer goes to the gym | 21:14 |
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| @rizen | For those of you who aren't aware, we have published the call for participation for WUC 2009. http://www.webgui.org/wuc/2009-call-for-participation | 21:51 |
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| @rizen | Please sign up if you want to do a talk. | 21:52 |
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| -!- khenn [n=khenn@24-159-227-44.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #WebGUI | 21:56 |
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| elnino | how does one do the little asterix in the chat window like perlDreamer going to the gym? | 22:15 |
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| -!- snapcount [n=snapcoun@andc-fw1.exploreos.com] has joined #webgui | 22:17 |
| deafferret | /me goes to gym | 22:22 |
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| deafferret | elnino: my client is irssi. I don't know what you're using. | 22:23 |
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| elnino | xchat | 22:25 |
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| deafferret | did you try typing "/me does something" ? | 22:27 |
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| * elnino I'm back | 22:43 |
| elnino | thanks deafferret! | 22:43 |
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| deafferret | "/me is back" would have made more sense :) | 22:44 |
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| elnino | I suppose.. | 22:44 |
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| -!- crythias [n=gyoung@fl-69-68-148-96.sta.embarqhsd.net] has left #webgui [] | 22:47 |
| -!- bopbop [n=kmccombs@68-114-219-232.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit ["bye"] | 22:47 |
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| elnino | in the database schema, in the asset table, what is the difference between lockedby and statechangedby? can the state change without being locked? | 23:02 |
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| @Haarg | deleting or cutting to the clipboard change the state but don't lock the asset | 23:07 |
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| elnino | ah, ok. thanks! | 23:07 |
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| -!- WebGUI [n=SynQ@f70168.upc-f.chello.nl] has joined #WebGUI | 23:10 |
| -!- WebGUI is now known as SynQ | 23:10 |
| * danny_mk leaving to get a haircut | 23:28 |
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| -!- topsub [n=josh@97.66.185.250] has quit [Remote closed the connection] | 23:59 |
| --- Day changed Wed Jan 07 2009 |
| -!- Mech422 [n=steve@adsl-99-19-124-227.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #webgui | 00:09 |
| -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@h19-afsc.ded.indra.com] has quit [] | 00:18 |
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| -!- WebGUI is now known as SynQ | 00:25 |
| * SDuensin has been AFK all frickin' day. | 00:26 |
| SynQ | I'm looking for any australian person | 00:26 |
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| SynQ | who has a phone number :) | 00:26 |
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| SDuensin | Not I. Sorry. | 00:26 |
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| SynQ | I kno | 00:26 |
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| SynQ | know | 00:26 |
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| SDuensin | Can I just willy-nilly add new fields to a product variant? Can the rest of the shopping system cope with that? | 00:27 |
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| SynQ | I have no idea | 00:30 |
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| SynQ | would you like to buy a box of 100 Goey dolls from me? | 00:31 |
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| SynQ | :P | 00:31 |
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| +perlDreamer | SynQ: Isn't it 4:00am in Australia? | 00:32 |
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| +perlDreamer | patspam will usually log in around 4:00pm or 5:00pm PST | 00:35 |
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| +perlDreamer | which is 2.5 hours from now | 00:35 |
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| SDuensin | So perlDreamer - screwing with the variant fields won't break the cart? Or am I starting a cascade of changes? | 00:40 |
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| +perlDreamer | not sure | 00:40 |
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| +perlDreamer | just the first thing I thought of | 00:40 |
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| SDuensin | hehe | 00:40 |
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| SynQ | ah | 00:40 |
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| SynQ | at which time I will be vast asleep | 00:41 |
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| SDuensin | It opens a few cans of worms with the display, too, but for what I need, I can fake it. | 00:41 |
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| -!- elnino_laptop [n=elnino@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #WEBGUI | 01:29 |
| elnino_laptop | hi. We have a matrix on our site, and the security settings were set so only internal people can post new products, well, one come thru as spam. | 01:30 |
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| elnino_laptop | so, couple questinos, | 01:30 |
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| elnino_laptop | obviously new listings in a matrix are not version tagged, otherwise, it would have just been version tagsed, and second, was this security hole reported for 7.5.24? | 01:31 |
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| +perlDreamer | elnino_laptop, I have not seen any Matrix bugs in months, maybe years | 01:41 |
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| +perlDreamer | The matrix was rewritten and upgraded for 7.6, however | 01:41 |
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| elnino_laptop | ok, well this is defately a bug.. Security is ignored, 4 anonymous submissions were made on a matrix that only our marketing people should be able to. | 01:41 |
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| elnino_laptop | i'm writting up a bug report now. | 01:42 |
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| elnino_laptop | so.. is there a way to set up the approval system to be enforced when the version tag is committed by others than in a particular group? these went right thru because marketing disabled the approval system. | 01:50 |
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| +perlDreamer | elnino, that would take a custom workflow | 01:51 |
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| +perlDreamer | and, as you noted, matrix listings are not versioned | 01:51 |
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| * perlDreamer sends elnino_laptop a big stick to hit the marketing people with | 01:52 |
| elnino_laptop | but that's funny, because as far as I can tell, the submission had committed version tags. | 01:52 |
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| elnino_laptop | * be glad to | 01:52 |
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| * elnino_laptop be glad to | 01:52 |
| +perlDreamer | there's a moderation system to it, it looks like | 01:56 |
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| +perlDreamer | but there's no version control | 01:56 |
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| +perlDreamer | listings can be approved or disproved by a group | 01:56 |
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| +perlDreamer | that's from a very, very quick read through on the code | 01:56 |
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| +perlDreamer | editListingSave | 01:56 |
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| elnino_laptop | well, yea, that was what was verion taged, the CS system that was created by the new listing. I guess I misspoke. The actual *listing* wasn't version tagged which I find to be interesting. | 01:57 |
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| * elnino_laptop is curious about that decision. | 01:57 |
| elnino_laptop | oh well | 01:57 |
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| elnino_laptop | I recommendd that the matrix be taken down for now. =) | 01:58 |
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| elnino_laptop | s/recommendd/recommended | 01:58 |
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| elnino_laptop | and I'll revisit (your's) wuc discussion on workflows, it was too much for my brain at that time of the day if I remember... | 01:58 |
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| elnino_laptop | I think it was yours... | 01:58 |
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| +perlDreamer | it was probably rizen, or preaction | 01:59 |
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| +perlDreamer | but they're not much harder than macros, really | 02:01 |
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| +perlDreamer | they can either be very complex, or very simple | 02:01 |
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| elnino_laptop | it was preaction.. I get your handles mixed up. | 02:02 |
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| +perlDreamer | it's easy to tell us apart, he's the good looking one with the tie | 02:02 |
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| elnino_laptop | =) maybe I should teach a class on workflows so I stop ignoring them.. | 02:03 |
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| elnino_laptop | however, we're expecting to have a new baby in July, so, not quite sure if that would be too smart on my part.l | 02:04 |
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| +perlDreamer | congratulations! | 02:04 |
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| +perlDreamer | I hope that this new baby is being easy on you? | 02:05 |
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| elnino_laptop | Thanks! I've never annouced anything so publicly before... =) | 02:05 |
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| +Radix-wrk | congrats elnino :) | 02:05 |
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| elnino_laptop | hopefully, but the first was the easy one, and everyone says the second is going to be just the opposite. | 02:05 |
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| elnino_laptop | So we're in BIG trouble. | 02:05 |
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| +Radix-wrk | heh | 02:05 |
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| elnino_laptop | Thanks Radix-wrk | 02:05 |
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| +perlDreamer | well, with our boys Kathy was sicker than a dog for 8 months | 02:06 |
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| +perlDreamer | so the trend can be broken! | 02:06 |
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| +Radix-wrk | my sister is going to have her second around the same time actually | 02:06 |
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| +perlDreamer | we need to throw a virtual baby shower or something | 02:06 |
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| elnino_laptop | actually, health wise, pregancies are easy on me.. | 02:06 |
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| +perlDreamer | what kind of internet stuff does a baby need these days? | 02:07 |
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| +perlDreamer | mp3 player | 02:07 |
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| +perlDreamer | Webkin? | 02:07 |
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| elnino_laptop | I dont' know how that would work, but that could be fun. | 02:07 |
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| +perlDreamer | cordless mouse | 02:07 |
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| +perlDreamer | baby gear from Thinkgeek | 02:07 |
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| CIA-46 | WebGUI: jt * r9166 /experimental/Automat/lib/ (7 files in 2 dirs): | 02:08 |
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| CIA-46 | WebGUI: many bug fixes | 02:08 |
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| CIA-46 | WebGUI: lots of improvements to dns management | 02:08 |
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| elnino_laptop | that's my boss's favorite place to shop. | 02:08 |
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| +Radix-wrk | get them a chumby | 02:08 |
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| * elnino_laptop now has to look at what a chumby is. | 02:10 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg: any releases today? | 02:10 |
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| @Haarg | yeah | 02:10 |
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| +perlDreamer | which branch? | 02:10 |
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| @Haarg | doing it right now | 02:10 |
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| @Haarg | 7.5 | 02:10 |
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| +perlDreamer | okay, I'll hold off on this commit then | 02:10 |
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| @rizen | perlDreamer could you check your email and make sure you got something about automat? | 02:10 |
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| elnino_laptop | eek.. I can't get rid of the listing on the matrix....I rolled back the CS versoin tags, that probably screwed it up. grr. | 02:10 |
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| +perlDreamer | rizen: got two | 02:11 |
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| @rizen | excellent, you should have gotten 2 | 02:11 |
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| @rizen | thanks | 02:11 |
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| +perlDreamer | although, I'm not allowed to work on WebGUI anymore | 02:11 |
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| +perlDreamer | I was fired by Vrby | 02:11 |
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| @rizen | oh yeah? | 02:11 |
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| @rizen | why is that? | 02:11 |
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| +perlDreamer | for being 5 months late turning in conference slides | 02:11 |
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| +perlDreamer | make that 7 months | 02:12 |
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| @rizen | hehe | 02:12 |
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| @rizen | you'll just have to turn your next set in 7 months early | 02:12 |
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| @rizen | and then all will be right with the world | 02:12 |
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| +perlDreamer | There's a next WUC in my future? | 02:12 |
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| @rizen | isn't there? | 02:12 |
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| +Radix-wrk | elnino: chumby.com funnily enough - but essentially it's a mini linux computer with touch screen, soft padded sides and an accelerometer - it's very hackable and you could do some cool stuff for kids on it. | 02:12 |
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| * perlDreamer is out of ideas, and I can't enough new bad code to talk about for Game Show, the Sequel | 02:13 |
| @rizen | would you like for me to come up with a few ideas that might inspire you? | 02:13 |
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| CIA-46 | WebGUI: graham * r9167 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/t/ (Asset/File/GalleryFile/Photo/comment.t Session/DateTime.t): fixing tests for new strings | 04:01 |
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| CIA-46 | WebGUI: graham * r9168 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.5.38 release | 04:01 |
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| -!- Radix-wrk changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.5.38-stable | 7.6.7-beta | WRE 0.8.5 ] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org | Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com/ | 04:20 |
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| CIA-46 | WebGUI: graham * r9169 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.5.37-7.5.38.pl: fix upgrade script | 04:23 |
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| CIA-46 | WebGUI: jt * r9170 /releases/WebGUI_7.5.38-stable: Release 7.5.38-stable | 04:23 |
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| CIA-46 | WebGUI: graham * r9171 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (4 files in 4 dirs): preparing for 7.5.39 dev | 04:23 |
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| +perlDreamer | w00t! | 04:27 |
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| +perlDreamer | time to commit | 04:27 |
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| jmarsden|work | Did the fix re. licence info for that one last file Ernesto was hopng for get into 7.5.38 ? | 04:38 |
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| +perlDreamer | which file was that, jmarsden|work? | 04:39 |
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| jmarsden|work | I forget; in July there were 4, days ago he said ther was one more 3rd party file he needed a licence info change for for full Debian approval as being free software | 04:40 |
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| jmarsden|work | I'll grab the new tarball later tonight and see if I can find anything about it in the changelog. | 04:42 |
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| +perlDreamer | there was a license change in 7.5.31, but that was many weeks ago | 04:46 |
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| +perlDreamer | but it's unrelated | 04:51 |
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| CIA-46 | WebGUI: colin * r9172 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix a typo in the i18n for Gallery RSS album RSS template variable loop. | 04:51 |
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| CIA-46 | WebGUI: colin * r9173 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Forward port i18n fix for Gallery Album RSS list. | 04:51 |
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| jmarsden | Why do the upgrade_*.pl scripts in docs/upgrades/ all lack an initial #!/usr/bin/perl line? Is there any way a patch to fix this would be accepted into the official WebGUI source code? | 08:01 |
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| jmarsden | Ernesto patches them all in his Debian package, but it would seem productive to get that change into the "upstream" sources. | 08:02 |
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| @preaction | jmarsden: they don't need one as they should not be run by themselves | 08:02 |
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| jmarsden | Maybe, but without an indicator like that you can't as easily tell that they are Perl scripts , for instance using file to determine which files in the tree are Perl and counting lines of code, or whatever... they may not "need" such a line, but it would be cleaner if they had one, wouldn't it? | 08:04 |
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| @preaction | it would get accepted, but i would think that /usr/bin/env perl would be best | 08:05 |
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| @preaction | perhaps asking the dev mailing list would be best | 08:05 |
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| jmarsden | OK, thanks. | 08:06 |
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| WebGUI | hmm | 09:08 |
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| WebGUI | no patspam | 09:08 |
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| bernd_ | Uh, plain black midnight session? | 10:09 |
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| bernd_ | Good morning everyone! | 10:09 |
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| CIA-46 | WebGUI: martin * r9174 /experimental/ (28 files in 5 dirs): The new graphing system initial import. | 18:34 |
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| CIA-46 | WebGUI: martin * r9175 /experimental/ (9 files in 2 dirs): Move the ChartMagick stuff to the right directory as was the plan all along... | 18:34 |
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| juan | in the Collaboration System, mail tab, can i configure a gmail account? | 18:50 |
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| +MrHairgrease | does gmail feature pop3? | 18:51 |
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| +perlDreamer | MrHairgrease, what is ChartMagick? | 18:53 |
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| +MrHairgrease | I am recreating the the graphing system in webgui agnostic modules that will be placed on CPAN | 18:56 |
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| +MrHairgrease | and webgui will be using it | 18:56 |
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| +MrHairgrease | and whe i say recreating i also mean making it better | 18:57 |
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| +MrHairgrease | so i chceked out some of the available charting systems on cpan | 18:57 |
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| +MrHairgrease | and i tried to make mine better than them | 18:58 |
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| +MrHairgrease | =) | 18:58 |
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| +MrHairgrease | It's not finished yet | 18:59 |
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| +MrHairgrease | but it's going good | 18:59 |
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| +perlDreamer | dude, for you that will be no problem | 18:59 |
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| +perlDreamer | Oh, uber-European hacker | 18:59 |
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| +MrHairgrease | so if you like, please chcek it out | 18:59 |
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| +perlDreamer | do you have tests? | 18:59 |
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| +MrHairgrease | in the scripts directory there are a number of test scripts | 18:59 |
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| +MrHairgrease | no tests yet | 18:59 |
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| juan | MrHairgrease, gmail uses pop | 19:00 |
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| +MrHairgrease | the files in the scripts directory render charts for you | 19:00 |
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| +MrHairgrease | most of em to out.png | 19:00 |
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| juan | but it uses a different port | 19:01 |
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| +MrHairgrease | anyway if you have the time, please let me know how you like th api | 19:01 |
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| +perlDreamer | okay | 19:01 |
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| +MrHairgrease | ther's no pod yet, but you should be able to figure it out pretty easily from the test scripts | 19:01 |
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| +MrHairgrease | juan: i dunno if i can work if gmail uses a non-standard port | 19:02 |
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| +MrHairgrease | i can try to find out though | 19:02 |
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| +MrHairgrease | hang on | 19:02 |
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| +MrHairgrease | juan: from the code it seems that you could try to stick the port number onto the url | 19:04 |
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| +MrHairgrease | so if gmail has pop on pop3.gmail.com on port 8799 | 19:05 |
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| +MrHairgrease | try to use pop3.gmail.com:8799 | 19:05 |
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| +MrHairgrease | otherwise I don't think it'll work | 19:05 |
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| juan | ok, i am going to try | 19:10 |
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| juan | thanks | 19:10 |
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| * danny_mk went to feed the canaries | 19:52 |
| +perlDreamer | just how many canaries do you own? | 19:52 |
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| * danny_mk back from feeding and watering the canaries | 20:19 |
| danny_mk | I have about 90+ | 20:19 |
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| +perlDreamer | does that cause a problem with disposal, or do you have a nitrate business on the side? | 20:31 |
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| danny_mk | LOL, no, just throw the stuff in the trash. It is not as much as you would think. during the worst year if would probably be the same as a couple of weeks of human disposal :-) | 20:34 |
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| @perlmonkey2 | quiet today? | 22:34 |
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| * bernd_ is drinking a cup of chai latte and enjoying the silence. | 22:35 |
| * danny_mk is relaxing after having too much to eat. | 22:37 |
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| CIA-46 | WebGUI: translation * r9176 /translations/German/German/ (Asset_Wobject.pm Asset_Gallery.pm): Update from translation server | 22:58 |
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| CIA-46 | WebGUI: translation * r9177 /translations/German/German/ (Asset_Gallery.pm Asset_GalleryAlbum.pm): Update from translation server | 22:58 |
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| bernd_ | perlDreamer? | 23:22 |
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| +perlDreamer | yes, bernd_? | 23:23 |
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| +perlDreamer | I just got back from running. You have excellent timing. | 23:24 |
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| bernd_ | One moment, please. I am brushing my teeth :-) | 23:24 |
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| +perlDreamer | np | 23:24 |
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| bernd_ | Ok, back again! | 23:25 |
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| bernd_ | I have a quiz for you: | 23:26 |
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| CIA-46 | WebGUI: translation * r9178 /translations/German/German/ (Asset_Gallery.pm Asset_GalleryAlbum.pm): Update from translation server | 23:26 |
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| CIA-46 | WebGUI: translation * r9179 /translations/German/German/Asset_Gallery.pm: Update from translation server | 23:26 |
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| bernd_ | If you have an image in print quality (300 dpi) and screen quality (72 dpi), | 23:26 |
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| bernd_ | what's the approximate size ratio then? | 23:26 |
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| bernd_ | perlDreamer? | 23:27 |
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| +perlDreamer | not sure, bernd_ | 23:27 |
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| bernd_ | It says 3-fold in the docs. | 23:27 |
|---|
| bernd_ | But imo it should be 10-fold. | 23:28 |
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| bernd_ | Or am I wrong here? | 23:28 |
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| +perlDreamer | 300/72 =~ 4 | 23:28 |
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| bernd_ | 16-fold in that case. | 23:28 |
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| bernd_ | I am referring to the "maxSpacePerUser description" key in Asset_Gallery.pm | 23:29 |
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| bernd_ | Ticket? | 23:29 |
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| +perlDreamer | let me read the docs for that | 23:29 |
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| +perlDreamer | I thought that referred to disk space | 23:29 |
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| +perlDreamer | which is loosely correlated to dpi | 23:29 |
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| bernd_ | Ah no, wrong key actually. | 23:29 |
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| bernd_ | I have to check again. | 23:30 |
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| bernd_ | It is "imageDensity description", in fact. | 23:30 |
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| bernd_ | Should be changed to 16-fold, do you agree? | 23:31 |
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| +perlDreamer | I think that is an approximate number | 23:32 |
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| +perlDreamer | and 16 fold would refer to the size, not the resolution? | 23:32 |
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| bernd_ | But it says "The density of the image. Print-quality images are more than three times the size of web-quality images." | 23:32 |
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| bernd_ | Maybe it should be "... three times the resolution ..." | 23:33 |
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| +perlDreamer | unless, due to compression, the relation is not linear | 23:33 |
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| bernd_ | If we changed it to resolution it would be always true. | 23:33 |
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| +perlDreamer | yes | 23:34 |
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| bernd_ | Ticket? | 23:34 |
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| +perlDreamer | Please! | 23:34 |
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| bernd_ | Almost done. Thanks for your time! | 23:35 |
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| bernd_ | Have a good night! | 23:35 |
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| +perlDreamer | Good night, bernd_! | 23:36 |
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| +perlDreamer | danny_mk: any thoughts about this: http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/CSuWYwoOSn8/article.pl | 23:45 |
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| danny_mk | yeah! Usage is low because people don't understand what it does and your average user will not bother with learning new technology (even simple solutions) | 23:47 |
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| danny_mk | The fact that facebook, yahoo, aol, myspace, etc... are using it should increase acceptance and usuage | 23:48 |
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| +perlDreamer | so really, this is just anti-OpenID, inflammatory flamebait | 23:49 |
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| danny_mk | I would think so :-) | 23:49 |
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| danny_mk | think about it, do you really want to keep track of all your login and passwords to every system/network/etc... you have created? | 23:50 |
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| danny_mk | I have actually adapted it at work and acceptance was great | 23:51 |
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| danny_mk | Have you tried it yet? | 23:51 |
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| +perlDreamer | nope | 23:52 |
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| +perlDreamer | haven't ever needed it | 23:52 |
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| danny_mk | Give me a few min of your time and I will show you what it does | 23:53 |
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| +perlDreamer | I think I understand the basic concepts | 23:54 |
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| danny_mk | Do you have a few min? | 23:54 |
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| +perlDreamer | yes, unless I get an IM ping back :) | 23:54 |
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| danny_mk | Do you have a yahoo, aol, myspace, facebook, google account? | 23:54 |
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| +perlDreamer | I have a google account | 23:55 |
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| danny_mk | alright, point your browser to openid.dbash.com | 23:56 |
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| danny_mk | Click on: If you would like to try it out sign in here! Sign In | 23:56 |
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| danny_mk | and use your google account to signup | 23:56 |
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| --- Day changed Thu Jan 08 2009 |
| +perlDreamer | seems slow | 00:00 |
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| +perlDreamer | still loading after the google authorization request | 00:00 |
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| danny_mk | sure, my network connection is slow as hell | 00:02 |
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| +perlDreamer | okay, got the auth email, hit the link and logged in | 00:03 |
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| danny_mk | I am looking at upgrading my cable modem service to a business | 00:03 |
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| +perlDreamer | but there's no way to tell if I'm logged in or not | 00:03 |
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| +perlDreamer | how would I tell the difference? | 00:03 |
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| danny_mk | you don't see a difference, the account link in the middle of the page? | 00:04 |
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| +perlDreamer | nope | 00:04 |
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| +perlDreamer | what is my OpenId identifier? | 00:04 |
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| +perlDreamer | just the email address? | 00:04 |
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| danny_mk | give me a sec | 00:04 |
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| danny_mk | You don't see a message like this one: Welcome Daniel M you have succesfully logged into this site using your OpenId account. | 00:07 |
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| +perlDreamer | Nope | 00:08 |
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| +perlDreamer | what's the openId identifier? | 00:09 |
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| danny_mk | OK, I can see that you did create an account. and that your account is active | 00:09 |
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| danny_mk | The openid identifier is a unique identifier that identifies you on the web. | 00:10 |
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| +perlDreamer | how do I know what mine is? | 00:10 |
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| danny_mk | It seems that you created and activated your account but did not login | 00:11 |
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| danny_mk | click on the link again and login and you will see your identifier under your account settings | 00:11 |
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| danny_mk | I don't want to post it here | 00:11 |
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| danny_mk | not that it matters anyway | 00:11 |
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| +perlDreamer | the problem with that is that I don't now how to login | 00:11 |
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| danny_mk | click the link that you used to create the account! | 00:12 |
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| +perlDreamer | ah now I'm logged in | 00:13 |
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| danny_mk | yes, steps are to create->activate/verify->login | 00:13 |
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| +perlDreamer | how do I log out? | 00:13 |
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| +perlDreamer | or access my profile? | 00:13 |
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| danny_mk | look in the middle of the page, you have the: Hello Daniel M. Click here to log out. My Account links | 00:15 |
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| danny_mk |
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