WebGUI irc logs from: 2009-01.log

--- Log opened Thu Jan 01 00:00:54 2009
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daviddelikatanybody know what exactly causes the blue site maintenance screen? and how to turn it off?00:25
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@preactiondaviddelikat: it's in the site settings. check sbin/maintenanceMode.pl to see how it works (and how to turn it off)00:58
daviddelikatthanks I figured it out...01:10
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CIA-45WebGUI: colin * r9122 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Backported old fix for Gallery pagination and layout in IE.03:09
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CIA-45WebGUI: colin * r9123 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): 18:27
CIA-45WebGUI: Fix a bug where the Album would try to delete assets that do not exist18:27
CIA-45WebGUI: from its cache. This would cause various operations to fail, including18:27
CIA-45WebGUI: the Asset Manager.18:27
CIA-45WebGUI: colin * r9124 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): 18:27
CIA-45WebGUI: Forward port Album cache delete/DESTROY issue with non-existant18:27
CIA-45WebGUI: keys in the cache.18:28
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--- Day changed Fri Jan 02 2009
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CIA-45WebGUI: jt * r9125 /experimental/Automat/sbin/migration/ (3 files): extra migration scripts01:15
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CIA-45WebGUI: jt * r9126 /experimental/Automat/ (12 files in 4 dirs): 03:02
CIA-45WebGUI: added recent changes03:02
CIA-45WebGUI: added stats03:02
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CIA-45WebGUI: jt * r9127 /experimental/Automat/lib/Automat/ (Site.pm Server.pm): added billing notification04:09
CIA-45WebGUI: jt * r9128 /experimental/Automat/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Automat.pm: rearrange some things04:09
CIA-45WebGUI: jt * r9129 /experimental/Automat/ (2 files in 2 dirs): 04:09
CIA-45WebGUI: more rearranging04:09
CIA-45WebGUI: update notification04:09
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CIA-45WebGUI: colin * r9130 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/Help.pm: Fix a typo in the POD for Operation/Help.08:54
CIA-45WebGUI: colin * r9131 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/International.pm: Add more characters that are legal in i18n keys.08:54
CIA-45WebGUI: colin * r9132 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (i18n/English/Asset_Matrix.pm Help/Asset_MatrixListing.pm): Fix missing Help docs in the Matrix.08:54
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SynQhey there BOB11:30
SynQhappy new year11:30
SynQto all the guys at alphamega11:30
SynQfrom all the guys at procolix11:30
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AMH_bobThank you very much!12:00
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-!- danny_mk [n=chatzill@64-204-40-34.client.dsl.net] has joined #webgui17:59
danny_mkhappy new year everyone17:59
+perlDreamerHappy new year, danny_mk!18:00
danny_mkOK, got a question about the permission system.  This ticket: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/can-see-edit-tab-even-tho-i-am-not-logged-in shows it as resolved18:09
danny_mkhowever, I seem to have problems with the Visitor account having edit access to the wiki even when I have assigned a private group to the wiki18:09
+perlDreamerwhich version of WebGUI?18:10
+perlDreamerand 2nd question, can you make a demo site do this?18:10
danny_mkHmmm... I will upgrade to latest now18:11
+perlDreameryeah, that bug was fixed in 7.5.3518:12
+perlDreamerdanny_mk, almost all (> 90%) of all bugs have the bug id in the changelog for easy searching18:15
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+perlDreamerHappy New Year, dionak.18:20
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danny_mkI looked through all the current bugs and there is no permission problem listed18:30
+perlDreamerit's been closed18:30
danny_mkI upgraded to 7.5.37-stable and the visitor user still has edit capabilities on the Wiki pages and can see content placed on a private group18:31
+perlDreamerokay, let me setup a 7.5.37 site18:31
danny_mkyou know the weird thing is that my upgraded site (been up 4 years) has no problem with permissions, the site I am having problems with is a new install18:32
danny_mkThe visitor on this new site has a bunch of "Pending versions" Visitor / 10/20/2008 8:30 am (Autotag)18:36
danny_mkfrustrating, but I don't want to look into the code, way too much work :-(18:36
+perlDreamerI think I may know the problem18:36
+perlDreamerI confirmed that an upgraded site works okay18:37
+perlDreamernow trying a new site18:37
+perlDreamerthe problem is a package that didn't seem to get into the 7.5.35 release18:43
danny_mkOK.  I also tried a new site at:  http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1230913687_975/home/wiki-test/18:43
danny_mkand it seems to have the right behavior18:44
danny_mkdo you have a patch?18:44
+perlDreamerI can show you where to get it18:44
+perlDreamerthis URL should get you the updated template that will hide the edit tab unless you can edit the wiki page18:48
+perlDreamerjust import that package and all should be well18:49
+perlDreamerand the problem itself will be fixed in 7.5.3818:50
danny_mkHmmm... that will work for the wiki, but what about page permissions?18:56
+perlDreamerI don't understand.  Are you saying that Visitor is also allowed to view pages that he should not?18:57
danny_mkyes, on this new site it does18:57
danny_mkI tried the test website above and it does not have this problem18:58
danny_mklet me try a couple of other things and I will let you know how it turns out18:58
danny_mkthank you for your help18:58
+perlDreamerJust to double check.  Create a new site (no upgrades).  Add a wiki, set privacy to only Registered Users.  Create a wiki page.  Log out, view wiki as Visitor and visit the page.18:58
danny_mkDamn, setting up a new site on the server works perfect19:45
+perlDreamerI hate infrequent, random bugs19:45
danny_mkI have to dig into this issue deeper, I have put a lot of content on my established site19:46
danny_mkdon't want to do that again19:46
+perlDreamerif it was a permissions issue, then version control will save you19:46
+perlDreamerjust delete any questionable versions19:46
+perlDreamerif it was a setup issue, you can use the AssetManager to change all the values at once19:46
+perlDreamerI don't think you're at too much risk19:46
danny_mkWell, I aways do a full backup of the database and directory when I upgrade19:47
danny_mkthank you for your help, at least now I know it is not WebGUI but an issue with that particular installation19:48
+perlDreamerif you need more help, just holler19:48
danny_mkthank you.  later...19:48
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+BartJolhappy newyear!20:46
+perlDreamerHappy New Year, BartJol!20:46
+BartJolhad a nice evening?20:47
+perlDreamerWent to a friend's house with wife and kids and watched Kung Fu Panda until late.20:48
+perlDreamerWhat did you do?20:48
+BartJolI was in the Belgium woods, something with a lot of beer, must be surprising ;)20:48
+perlDreamerwhat, you _AND_ beer?  No....20:49
+BartJolWe were with some friends20:49
+perlDreameryou __AND__ friends and beer?20:49
+BartJolI know, it's irresponsiible20:49
+BartJolwe only broke 5 glasses20:49
+BartJolyesterday we spend getting rid of our hangovers, I didn't know hangover were like chins: you can have multiple of both20:51
+perlDreamerit's just your liver and brain trying to get even20:52
+BartJolhave to go, there's food!20:53
* BartJol is eatinf20:53
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CIA-45WebGUI: colin * r9133 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): Safe handling for Image form fields in the editThing field preview.22:08
CIA-45WebGUI: colin * r9134 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): Fix preview of Image fields in the editThing screen.22:08
CIA-45WebGUI: colin * r9135 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm: Thingy i18n for edit, delete buttons created in code.22:08
CIA-45WebGUI: colin * r9136 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm: i18n Edit and Delete buttons created in code.22:08
CIA-45WebGUI: translation * r9137 /translations/ (165 files in 3 dirs): Update from translation server22:37
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CIA-45WebGUI: colin * r9138 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (Form/Attachments.pm i18n/English/WebGUI.pm): i18n the Attachments Form control23:36
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--- Day changed Sat Jan 03 2009
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CIA-45WebGUI: colin * r9139 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (i18n/English/Asset_Calendar.pm Asset/Wobject/Calendar.pm): Calendar i18n00:26
CIA-45WebGUI: colin * r9140 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Shop/Transaction.pm: I18n'ed a submit button in the manage transactions screen.00:26
CIA-45WebGUI: colin * r9141 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Shop/Transaction.pm: Fix a syntax error made in the i18n of the search button.00:26
CIA-45WebGUI: colin * r9142 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Only resize photos if they are larger than the Gallery resolutions.00:26
CIA-45WebGUI: colin * r9143 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Backport gallery photo resolutions fix.00:26
+perlDreamerpatspam, I'm not sure that "Send Queued Email Messages Every 5 Minutes" is any better than "Delete temp files older than 24 hours"00:26
patspamhmm and i guess "daily/weekly/month maintenance" is pretty bad too00:28
+perlDreameryeah, as preconfigured, default, comes with WebGUI they work okay, since what they say is what they do00:29
+perlDreamerbut if they're reconfigured by the user then they could be misleading00:29
+perlDreamerhowever, they could also edit the title at the same time00:29
patspamyeah, feel free to close that bug, i was just being pedantic00:29
+perlDreamerit's been a weird day for bugs00:30
+perlDreamerFound a bug in Data::Dumper00:30
+perlDreamerit's just cosmetic.00:31
+perlDreamerit will alternately encode 8-bit characters as control characters, or as \x escapes00:31
patspamthis made me smile: http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/archives/2009/01/ie6_on_the_way.html00:33
+perlDreamerany way we can extend that trend to IE*? ;)00:34
patspamif only!00:34
@HaargperlDreamer, you have an example of that Data::Dumper issue?00:44
+perlDreamerI'll email it to you.00:45
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+perlDreamerit just alternates between literal 8-bit characters, and 8-bit characters encoded as hex escapes.00:46
+perlDreamerthe text works fine in both cases, but it's weird00:46
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+perlDreamerare you able to see it as well, Haarg?00:52
CIA-45WebGUI: colin * r9144 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (6 files in 5 dirs): Remove the warnings pragma00:54
CIA-45WebGUI: colin * r9145 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/lib/WebGUI/ (7 files in 5 dirs): Remove warnings pragma.00:54
@Haargit does fail yes00:54
@Haargpart of that is because of Useqq00:57
+perlDreamerif you remove Useqq it just alternates differently00:58
@Haargwhat you sent doesn't have Useqq00:58
@Haargso adding it makes it closer00:58
@Haargbut it is still different00:58
@Haarghow was the first file generated?00:59
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+perlDreamerI snipped it by hand from the German translation01:01
+perlDreamerwhich I downloaded from the i18n server01:01
+perlDreamersee this bug: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/930801:02
@Haargit always wants to encode the chars the same way for me01:02
@Haargbut the initial file has them in two forms01:03
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@Haargit looks like it is switching Useqq on and off01:04
+perlDreamerinternally?  yes, it does.  When it switches to the \x escape it has to use double quotes01:04
+perlDreamerbut it happens even when items aren't touched01:04
@Haargyeah, i guess it isn't using Useqq, but it is using double quotes in some cases anyway01:05
+perlDreameryeah, at first I thought that it was a Data::Dumper config problem, but after reading the docs I realized that there's no way to ask it to alter how it handles stuff.01:08
@Haargi think i figured it out01:12
@Haargit's not a data::dumper bug01:12
+perlDreamerclue me in, dude01:12
@Haargwhen it writes out the single quote version01:12
@Haargit doesn't have the utf8 character01:13
@Haargit has the byte string01:13
@Haargthe utf8 pragma in the file that is written means they both versions are read as characters instead of byte strings01:13
@Haargit is getting translated to the byte string when it gets sent to and from the browser01:14
+perlDreamerin the test file, nothing is done to the data, but it still toggles back and forth01:14
@Haargdoes it?01:14
@Haarghow are you testing that?01:15
@Haargit always wants to write the same thing for me01:15
+perlDreamerlet me set up a test that goes through another iteration of import and export.  In the full translation CGI, they go back and forth and back and forth01:15
@Haargthere is definately something screwy here i guess01:16
+perlDreameryou know, by looking at the file with vim, maybe something bad is happening...01:19
@Haarg  'message' => 'Zur\xfcck zur Seite.'   01:19
+perlDreameryeah, that's the hex encoding for a wide character01:19
@Haargthat doesn't make a lot of sense though01:19
+perlDreamerinside of a single quoted string?  No.01:20
+perlDreamerbut if you cat the file, it looks fine01:20
+perlDreamermaybe it's just a display issue with Test::Differences01:20
@Haargi think it is01:20
+perlDreamerwell, on the 2nd iteration, everything passes01:28
+perlDreamerwhich means that you were right earlier about the browser interaction01:28
+perlDreamerhow do we force UTF8 handling of the data from CGI->param?01:29
@Haargdecode it ourselves01:29
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+perlDreamerthat will fix it in the script, do we also need a fixup script for the data that's currently in various encodings?01:30
@Haargit shouldn't matter really01:30
@Haargall of the data is valid, just in different forms01:30
@Haargonce it is changed and committed once it should be the 'proper' format01:31
@Haargas long as we have utf8 headers in what we are sending out it should always come back as a utf8 byte string01:31
+perlDreamerwhat happens if it is already decoded?01:31
@Haargit won't be01:31
@Haarglooks about right01:32
+perlDreamerthat's in there currently01:32
+perlDreamerdo we need to encode it manually on the way out then?01:34
+perlDreamersince it's being decoded on the way in?01:34
@Haargi'm not sure01:35
@Haargwith Useqq it sticks with the \374 form01:37
@Haargit still alternates without it though01:37
+perlDreameriirc, I was still seeing some \x{fc} when UseQQ01:37
+perlDreamerand I didn't try that in the CGI01:38
+perlDreamerI'll do that now01:38
@Haargafter a couple loops though it goes with \374 and stays there01:38
@Haargi guess it must be a bug01:38
+perlDreamerwell, in any case it's not harmful for the i18n server01:40
+perlDreamerjust weird01:40
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elninohi. I setup a store, using only cash, and I think someone mentioned this, but the only products I have are subscription, and someone said at one point that subscriptions can not be purchased with cash only stores. Was that fixed? I have 7.5.24 (I believe)04:36
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elninoIs there a way to setup the store to not track inventory?05:02
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bernd_preaction, truly online or just your ghost?23:17
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SynQwould it be possible to run WebGUI on a 32MB NSLU2 arm system?00:58
SynQI wonder00:58
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specsmuI'm about to upgrade from version 6.8.6.  Do I need to do all sorts of incremental upgrades, or can I follow the instructions?03:36
SynQread the gotcha.txt03:37
specsmuI take it I just asked a trick question.03:37
specsmuwhat I'm asking is, I remember last time I did this, I had to do four different overwerites and upgrades in a row, or maybe more03:37
specsmuif I just do the latest version and follow the instructions, I should be OK?03:37
SynQyes and no03:38
SynQyou should read the gotcha.txt03:38
specsmuI feel like I'm in Shroedinger's webgui.03:38
SynQand make damn sure you make backups03:38
SynQcomplete backups03:38
specsmubackups alredy made.03:38
SynQ6.8.6 doesn't sound too bad to me03:39
specsmubacked up the database, /home/WebGUI, and all of the wwwroots03:39
SynQperhaps there is something worth reading in the wiki about updates03:39
SynQand steps in between03:39
specsmuwell, here goes, I guess.  at least I have backups.03:40
SynQgood luck to you :)03:41
specsmuthanks.  I've been doing linux dministrationfor so long, this should only take me a day.03:41
specsmu"you need to upgrade to the latest 6.8 release before you can upgrade to 6.99"03:43
specsmuoh, POO.03:43
specsmuwell, I hope you guys still have them...03:43
SynQit's available03:43
specsmuwow, where'd I get so many users from.  :D03:46
specsmuhope you don't mind if I sit around and make snarky comments while I do this, it makes it less stressful03:46
SynQgo ahead03:47
SynQI love to be entertained :)03:47
specsmuahh, stephen sondheim03:47
specsmu"let meeeee. entertain you..."03:48
specsmuok, upgrade to 6.8.9 starting03:48
specsmuand there are some new gotchas btw that aren't documented.03:48
SynQdid you clear the cache and the trash?03:48
specsmuehh. no.  I gather I'm supposed to do that?03:48
SynQI reccomend it :)03:48
specsmuI don't see instructions on how to do that.03:49
SynQin the web interface03:50
SynQas administrator03:50
specsmuahhh.  this is someone else's site, I haven't logged in in years03:50
SynQI don't envy you03:51
specsmume neither.  :)03:51
specsmuI don't envy the guy I'm upgrading once he sees the new admin colsole03:51
specsmuI'm sure it's better, gbut it'll be a shock03:51
SynQit's different03:52
specsmuheehee, I get tobe a BOFH while giving him what he's asking for03:52
SynQbastards are not really nice people though03:53
specsmudidn't say I was03:53
specsmujust that I can be mean and nice at the same time03:53
SynQI prefere the term LOFH03:53
SynQthe Likable Operator From Heaven03:53
specsmuthat's no fun03:53
specsmuharp --play03:53
SynQbut it is03:53
specsmucloud --sit03:54
SynQyou get to be liked and loved03:54
SynQask colin :)03:54
specsmuI've no idea how that feels03:54
SynQColin is one of TPBW03:55
specsmuThe Putatively Big Women?03:55
SynQThe People Behind WebGUI03:55
specsmuI may have met him at SCALE03:56
specsmuwow, load average 18... clearing the cache must be intensive.03:56
specsmumore likely my machine is just way underpowered...  they're going to put me on a faster one again tomorrow03:57
SynQdo you use database caching03:57
specsmuI didn't think so, but apparently.03:57
SynQI'm going to go to bed soon04:01
specsmuI guess I'll try to muddle this out04:02
specsmuthanks for the help04:03
SynQmy pleasure04:03
specsmuwell, this is lame.04:26
specsmuinternal server error and nothing at all getting dumped out to err.04:26
specsmuah, bit by POST_MAX again.04:31
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elninoHI. I'm looking at the navigation help in webgui, and wasn't seeing anything there that would help me count the number of children a page has. Is there a neat trick anyone knows?05:11
elninooh never mind. I should be using a different asset. 05:12
specsmuwow, what a mess.05:52
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CIA-45WebGUI: colin * r9146 /WebGUI/t/Session/DateTime.t: Update test to match fixed code.06:08
specsmuwow, either I'm doing something spectacularly wrong or the 0.99.5 upgrade script is spectacularly broken.06:09
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specsmulooks like it's the former.06:16
specsmuAND the latter.06:32
specsmuParse::PlainConfig apparently now requires a read() where it didn't before.06:33
specsmuand JSON is farked up too.06:35
specsmuwow.  this is so messed up..08:09
specsmuheh, trying to update the asset before the assetIndex is actually added to the database... how did this upgrade *ever* work?08:38
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specsmuhi radix09:06
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Radix__hi specsmu :)09:55
specsmuwow, where'd you come from09:55
specsmuI want to go on record as saying this workflow stuff is confusing thecrap out of me09:56
specsmuI committed something, the changes disappeared, I can't click "edit" anymore09:56
Radix__Hmm.. it means that the changes haven't been processed yet - which may just mean it's a bit slow (can take a few seconds perhaps so try a refresh)09:57
specsmudoes spectre process the changes?09:58
Radix__Alternatively, it may mean that spectre isn't set up properly09:58
specsmuyeah... :P09:58
Radix__in which case check your webgui.log and see what's going on09:58
Radix__are you using the wre?09:58
specsmuno, right now I'm just trying toget an old version upgraded toa slightly less old version09:58
specsmuand let me tell you09:58
specsmuthe upgrade scipts are BROKEN09:58
Radix__what version?09:59
specsmu6.8.10 to 6.99.009:59
specsmuI had to manually modify the perl scripts to get it to work09:59
specsmunot to mention...09:59
specsmuit does NOT like the new version of PlainConfig09:59
specsmuI had to hack the code to make it work09:59
Radix__Hmm.. you prolly need to talk to the PB guys then.. there's a specific way of upgrading with the older versions and I can never remember what it is10:00
specsmuyeah, I think I've muddled through it10:00
Radix__I'm using 7.0.8 at work myself10:00
specsmuit wiped my templates but otherwise I got out unscathed10:00
specsmuoh... I think it worked10:01
specsmuoh good, and I can edit again.10:01
Radix__cool :)10:02
specsmuwebgui has just gotten moreand more complicated10:02
specsmuI reallyregret ever touching it but now I'm stuck with it10:02
Radix__I wish upgrades were easier myself10:03
specsmuI don't even have the hang of adminning it10:03
specsmumy client wanted to give me some time back so he tried hiring someone to do some work on it10:03
specsmuthe person gave up in disgust10:03
specsmuit was almost funny10:03
specsmuI hope it's easier after the upgrades.10:08
specsmunow THAT is odd.10:47
specsmufor some reason, suddenly it can't create new files and directories, even though the permissions are correct10:48
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specsmuwell, after I got to 6.99.5, it's been much more uneventful.00:20
+perlDreameryou can say that again00:20
specsmuthe upgrade from 6.8.6 to 6.99.5 is...  TERRIBLE.00:21
specsmuneither the upgrade code nor the actual code actually works out of the box on a modern system.00:21
+perlDreamerpost bugs about it00:22
specsmuand even 7.2.3 needs modifications for thelatest JSON00:22
+perlDreamerisn't that documented in the gotchas.txt file?00:22
specsmuI don't think it's worth posting bugs for anything other thn the latest version00:22
specsmumaybe for newer versions.00:22
+perlDreamer7.2.3 isn't supposed to work with the latest JSON00:23
specsmuwell, I made it00:24
+perlDreamerthe JSON module went through an API rewrite which forced us to make changes to WebGUI00:24
specsmuit's OK, I'm forcing the issue anyway00:24
specsmuanything I have to do to make the pathwork00:24
specsmupath work00:24
specsmuheh, anyone who hasn't been doing this fro 12 years would probably be working on it into March.00:25
specsmuif you just take out the autoconv and skipinvalid options anywhere they appear, it's enough to get it to working.00:27
+perlDreamerthat's why I suggested posting a bug.  if anyone else has to do this, you'd be helping them out00:27
specsmuhmm.  maybe I will..00:27
+perlDreamerespecially if you've already made workarounds for it00:28
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specsmudunno if I'll remember every single one but I can probably do the major ones00:28
specsmuI don't think WebGui needs enough perl modules.00:36
specsmuthere are still some written by a farmer in Elbonia that haven't been included.00:37
specsmuoh wow, there's a farkup.00:45
specsmulooks like 7.2.3 to 7.3.9 doesn't work.00:49
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+perlDreamerspecsmu: what's the hiccup there?01:25
specsmuthe upgrade from 7.2.3 to 7.3.0 requires a field that's not put in until 7.3.8-7.3.901:27
specsmuhave to do 7.3.8 first01:27
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specsmuwell, so far the modern updates are working well.01:40
specsmulooks like 7.5.37 is the limit, anything later appears to be broke.02:09
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elninohi.  I'm gettting a bunch of "Apache/mod_proxy on localhost is down and could not be restarted.06:51
elnino"  what should I be looking at? 06:51
elninoThe messsages are coming to me via email from WRE.06:53
specsmushould see why apache won't start.06:54
elninoapache is running I believe it's the mod_proxy. When I do a ps-aux, there are more mod_proxy than there are mod_perl listed which seems weird to me. We've added more sites to the servers, so maybe there is a limit of concurrent mod_* that can be running?06:56
specsmumaybe.. I don't know anything about mod_proxy06:56
elninoI don't really either, it's part of the wre and it makes webgui "go"06:56
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elninoI have six   /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start07:01
elnino10    /data/wre/prereqs/bin/httpd -f /data/wre/etc/modperl.conf07:01
elnino11  /data/wre/prereqs/bin/httpd -f /data/wre/etc/modproxy.conf07:01
specsmuhave you looked in the error logs?07:01
elninoyes, I have vague php errors without a date so I have no idea if they are releatd.07:02
elninothat is in my apache error_log07:02
elninoI haven't looked at the mod_proxy error log.  going there now.07:02
elninomod proxy log only consists of warnings of "Session Cache is not configured [hint: SSLSessionCache]"07:04
elninomod perl is more interesting07:04
elninoApache2::SizeLimit httpd process too big07:05
elninoexiting at SIZE=79864/100000 KB  SHARE=1864/0 KB  UNSHARED=78000/75000 KB  REQUESTS=66 LIFETIME=13040 seconds07:05
specsmuthere you go.07:05
elninoI have no idea what that means.   other than somthing is too big... would you be able to point me to what settings I should be evaluating?07:06
specsmutry finding documentation on Apache2::SizeLimit07:06
specsmuit's probably something in the apache config07:06
specsmuI don't know what though.07:06
elninook.  to google I go.07:07
+Radix-wrknah.. the sizelimit thing is normal07:15
specsmuhave you looked at the webgui error log?07:16
+Radix-wrkit's set in apache itself to kill any apache2 processes that are getting too large (which they can do if there's memory leaks)07:16
elninoI saw that in one of the threads on pb, but still looking around.07:16
elninoI saw in an older mod_perl, that server reached MaxClients setting, consider raising the MaxClients setting07:16
elninothat only showed up once.07:16
+Radix-wrkthe email you're getting is probably from the wremonitor07:16
specsmuthat just means requests might be dropped07:16
+Radix-wrkit sounds like it's running.. just wremonitor is confused?07:17
+Radix-wrkI haven't used the more recent versions.. but I've never been a big fan of wremonitor - never quite worked right for me07:17
elninoright now, I'm stopping all services to see if there are any straggling processes around. Someone walked me thru this once before. Not sure exactly why I had to, but it "fixed" my problem then.07:17
+Radix-wrkSo apache won't start?07:18
+Radix-wrkor mod-perl won't start?07:18
elninoit's slow to stop them, still stopping. =)07:18
elninoso something must be keeping it busy. I did this because I did notice in my webgui log07:18
elninoERROR - spectre.conf - POE::Kernel::_dispatch_event[1012] - typeerrors.07:19
elninoso something seemed to have gone amuck with spectre?07:19
+Radix-wrkHmm.. sounds odd07:19
elninostill stopping.  wow.07:19
+Radix-wrksometimes a 'rm -rf /tmp/WebGUI' can help too07:20
+Radix-wrkclears the cache07:20
+Radix-wrkstop everything first tho07:20
elninook. I'll do that after things stop... done!07:20
+Radix-wrkit shouldn't be as much of an issue with the newer versions.. but I need to do that with 7.0.8 from time to time to keep things running smoothly07:21
elninoyep. A bunch of /data/wre/prereqs/bin/httpd -f /data/wre/etc/modproxy.conf hanging out with services all stopped. I'm going to kill them.07:21
elninoI hvae 7.5.2407:21
+Radix-wrkkill em off manually then07:21
+Radix-wrkkillall httpd07:22
elninospectre is still running... huh?07:22
+Radix-wrkkeep running that until all dead ;)07:22
+Radix-wrkor ps and kill -9 each individual process07:22
elninoI did a stop all and it said specre was stoppped.... weird.07:22
+Radix-wrksomething odd is going on07:23
elninothe "tty" is "?"07:23
specsmuthat means it's a daemon.07:23
elninorather than a pts.  07:23
specsmudaemons detach from a tty.07:23
elninook. I ran "stop all" again. and all processes are gone.07:23
elninoopps. except spectre07:23
elninoSTAT is "R" does that mean it's restarting on it's own?07:24
specsmuno, that means it's Running.07:25
+Radix-wrkkill it manually07:25
elninoyep. done. starting all aain.07:25
+Radix-wrkfingers crossed ;)07:25
elninoyeah, seemed ike I had two "start alls" going or something.07:26
elninoall looks well, still looking around.07:26
elninoHey thanks for being there with me!  both of you..07:29
+Radix-wrkall good then? :)07:29
elninolooks like thing are swell, and sites are speedy again.07:29
+Radix-wrkgood to hear07:29
specsmuthough radix did most of the work :)07:30
elninonoticed that my logs are rotating daily, is there a way to change the frequency?07:30
* Radix-wrk has no idea about logs.07:30
+Radix-wrkAnd it's good to know the same process I use with 7.0.8 still works with 7.5.2407:31
elninothat's fine,  just thought I'd ask since I had your attention.  =) I'll look on pb.07:31
elninoit's weird with those extra processes. I wish I knew what caused them rather than just how to kill them.07:31
+Radix-wrkI should upgrade this server to the latest webgui sometime, but it runs pretty well as is and had no major incentive to07:32
elninonice features?07:32
elnino7.0.8 - that's a long time ago.  before my time.  =)07:32
+Radix-wrkelnino: what I think happened is that wremonitor lost the plot - thought apache/spectre was dead and restarted it07:32
elninobut WHY?  =) It was definately confused I agree.07:32
+Radix-wrkno idea, sorry07:33
elninois there a way to disable wre? or modify what it double checks?07:33
elninoI mean wremonitor?07:33
+Radix-wrkHmm.. not sure with the new version07:34
+Radix-wrkit used to be added to cron07:34
+Radix-wrkcheck /etc/crontab or try su'ing to the webgui user and crontab -e07:35
elninook...  I came across this before.. And am a bit confused by it.   I ALWAYS modify /etc/crontab.  but if I do crontab -e the contents of the file is different. what's up with that?  (wremonitor is in the "crontab -e")07:38
elninois one a user's crontab?07:38
+Radix-wrkcrontab -e is a users crontab07:38
elninowell, I'm root.07:38
+Radix-wrkroot is a user too07:38
elninoso "whos" is the /etc/crontab.  I thought that would be roots...07:39
+Radix-wrknah, it's not anyones - it's the systems I guess07:39
elninoso where is root's crontab located? there is nothign in home or ~ or /usr07:40
+Radix-wrknot sure actually07:41
+Radix-wrkcron stores it somewhere obviously07:41
elninook... well.  now I know.... Thanks!07:41
elninoto google I go.07:42
elnino /var/spool/cron/crontabs supposedly07:42
elninoand there it is.07:42
elninook. that is enough fun for today. now I get to document. Thanks! Have a good evening!07:44
+Radix-wrkenjoy :)07:46
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specsmuwell, me go too.  upgrade is done and I hope I don't have to touch webgui for a while.07:57
* Radix-wrk waves.07:57
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AMH_bobHi everybody,16:31
AMH_bobHappy New Year!16:31
AMH_bobLast week somebody wished me one, but work started to hit the fan right after that and I did not get to finish the chat.16:32
+BartJolhappy new year AMH_bob16:36
AMH_bobtnx BartJol16:38
AMH_bobsame to you!!!16:38
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+perlDreamerHail, hail, the gang's all here17:37
@perlmonkey2perlDreamer: So my wife is reading through her email today and asks me if I want to host a 22 year old Belgium girl for the semester...........17:39
+perlDreamerDo you speak Belgium-ese?17:39
@perlmonkey2perlDreamer: nope, not a bit.17:40
+perlDreamerin that case, maybe pass17:40
+BartJolwell, if she's not french speaking I should be able to translate17:40
* deafferret dreams of two monkeys17:41
@perlmonkey2ah, no matter what, I'll pass.  Having a 22 year old girl living here and making use of the pool would not be conducive to a successful marriage :P17:41
+perlDreamerperlmonkey2, you are wise :)17:42
+BartJoleven though your wife makes the proposition?17:42
deafferretperlmonkey2: ya, what BartJol said  :)17:42
@perlmonkey2BartJol: Just me, my friend, she did not make that proposal in earnest.  Merely a test, and I passed.17:42
+BartJolshe are evil17:43
@perlmonkey2BartJol: her and the rest of the women in the world :P17:43
deafferretturn the tables -- be insulted that your wife has so little faith in you17:43
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* SDuensin will host! :-)17:44
@perlmonkey2deafferret: there is only one rule of marriage that I've found to be accurate.  She is always right, even when she is wrong, you are also wrong.17:44
+BartJoldarn, we sound like frustrated nerds17:44
@perlmonkey2SDuensin: I think you need to live in the area to host.  But it might be worth moving here for a semester :P17:44
deafferretof course I'm frustrated. I'm married.  17:44
AMH_bobI'm still happy my wife is letting me go to the WUC again this year!17:46
+BartJolmmm and why is my the karma macro executed in a profile field from one user and not the other....17:48
+BartJolmmm the caret is escaped17:52
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@rizenit sounds like you guys all just have terrible wives. =)17:56
deafferretlike Ivan the Terrible?17:57
SDuensinNo, but there's always room for 22 year old hotness!17:57
+BartJolI don't have one... but to move to the US for a smester just to host a girl... no17:57
+BartJolmmm I feel like catching eels with that caret, it keeps escaping18:02
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SDuensinHey, while people are here, I want to argue about JSON in the database some more.  :-)18:12
+perlDreamerSDuensin: Did you find your double variant problem?18:13
SDuensinNot yet.  :-(18:14
SDuensinOk, now I'm really confused...18:16
SDuensinI edited one of the duplicate variants.  Now they're no longer the same, but the one I edited doesn't appear in the drop down to purchase it.18:16
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-!- mode/#webgui [+o plainhao] by preaction18:24
+BartJolhe, is there a new PB person in town? We don't take  kindly of strange people18:25
@preactionBartJol: now now, we don't want no trouble18:25
@preactioneverybody give plainhao a nice, gooey welcome18:26
+BartJoljust introduce! then he/she is welcome18:26
+perlDreamerhowdy, plainhao!18:26
+BartJolbut welcome plainhao18:27
@plainhaohi, everybody!18:27
@plainhaotoday is my first day, hopefully not my last :)18:27
+perlDreamerplainhao: recipe for PB success.  Don't tell rizen that he sucks.18:28
+perlDreamerand don't mention the P word in channel18:29
+BartJoland don't mind if he does it to you18:29
+perlDreamerno, the other P word18:29
+perlDreameractually, there may be several18:29
* plainhao appreciates all the advice and will follow accordingly.18:30
@preactioni suppose introductions will be in order, I'm Doug whom you've spoken to before18:32
+BartJolI'm a Bart, a Dutchie18:32
+perlDreamerBart is a perl programmer, and does the majority of the Dutch translation18:33
@preactionthe as-mentiond rizen is JT Smith. Haarg is Graham (support and R&D expert). khenn is Frank (you've spoken to him as well)18:33
+BartJolperl programmer? that might be a bit to much credit18:34
+BartJolperlDreamer is the test hero18:34
+perlDreamerit does not matter how far along the path you are, only that you are on the path18:34
+BartJoland his name is Colin18:34
@preactiontavisto is Tavis Parker, the marketing guru. steveo_aa is Stephen Opal, Alumni expert (and Perl / JS developer)18:34
* SDuensin is the #1 WebGUI Fan.18:35
@tavistoHi Hao, welcome aboard18:35
@preactionas for the rest, i shant violate their privacy18:35
@tavistopreaction = the man with one hand18:35
@plainhaothanks, tavis, i hope you're not in too much pain18:36
@plainhaooh, wait, it was doug who broke his hand :)18:36
@tavistoyep :)18:36
@preactionyeah, the codiene helps, but leaves me wondering what's happening at any given moment18:37
+perlDreamertavisto, have you been breaking the developers again?18:37
+perlDreamerI keep telling you that you won't be allowed to play with them if you do...18:37
@preactionnono, tavis doesnt hit me, i... i... fell down some stairs18:38
+perlDreamerjust have a fudge oat bar and some tylenol, preaction18:39
@preactiontylenol 3! its better than tylenol 1 and 218:39
@plainhaodo you guys use the latest development version for client work, latest beta, or latest stable?18:39
+BartJoltavisto: if you do, your trip to the netherlands will be long and painfull18:40
+BartJollatest stable18:40
+BartJolor older, but that's due to laziness in the past18:40
@tavistoyeah, preaction rarely disobeys, but when he does the penalty involves a hammer and his fingers..18:40
+perlDreamerplainhao, it depends on what the client wants18:41
@tavistoBartJol is next on the list. He is a big girly man!18:41
+BartJolgirly? I don't take that from metroman18:42
+perlDreamertavisto, BartJol would bend you in a nice, tight, Michgander pretzel shape18:42
+BartJolbut I'd rather not18:42
+perlDreamerno, we really do like tavisto18:42
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@tavistoBartJol looks mean (not really) but is actually just a nice big buzzed teddy bear18:43
+BartJolI do have a scary picture of me somewere though18:44
+perlDreamerit's on webgui.org18:44
+BartJolsmiling with a razor at the ready18:45
+BartJolno it's not there18:45
@tavistohehe nice18:46
* perlDreamer is not used to seeing BartJol with hair18:48
+BartJolyou should be after last WUC18:48
+perlDreamerno, you were shaven then, yes?18:49
+BartJolmy face was, and I had a haircut18:50
CIA-45WebGUI: colin * r9147 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): Fix linking to other things and autocreating the form field for it.19:14
CIA-45WebGUI: yung * r9148 /branch/WebGUI_flux/lib/WebGUI/ (Auth/WebGUI.pm Inbox/Message.pm): forcing html in WebGUI Auth's welcome message email19:14
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+cap10morganhey, i have a client who wanted to setup a photo gallery on their website. i encouraged them to use the photo gallery tool (their site is running on wG 7.5), but he gave me a list of shortcomings he'd found w/ it that are showstoppers for his using it for this. he wants to use something else now, but i wanted to put his list up somewhere so the wG community could try tackling them (either w/ code, clever ideas, or whatever). What's the best pl19:26
dionaksounds like RFE's19:27
+cap10morganthat's what I thought too19:27
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SDuensinI hate this database table.  Hate it.  HATE HATE HATE it.19:48
* SDuensin refers to "Product".19:48
* perlDreamer won't take it personally19:49
SDuensinI even filed an RFE.  rizen denied it in record time.19:49
SDuensinSeriously.  How is JSON in the database even remotely a good idea?  (No offense.)19:50
@rizenSDuensin: it is good for a number of reasons19:50
+perlDreamerit allows versioning of collateral19:50
+perlDreamerit exports and packages and prototypes by default19:50
SDuensinSo does another table.19:50
@rizenbut the primary reason that basically gets rid of all other arguments is the one pd just stated19:50
@rizenSDuensin: no it doesn't19:51
SDuensinWhy not?  It could.19:51
@rizenperlDreamer neglected to use the world "automatic"19:51
@rizenwe get it for free19:51
@rizenno additional work19:51
@rizenit just works19:51
@rizenanything else requires extra development effort, not to mention knowledge of the other subsystems that might use it19:51
SDuensinSo we take bad database design when it lets us be lazy?  That's a dangerous precedent.19:51
@rizenversioning, prototypes, packages, or anything else that comes in the future19:52
@rizenno SDuensin you're not seeing the picture here19:52
@rizenthis isn't about laziness19:52
@rizenit's about compatibility19:52
@rizenwe design our objects to work with all these other features19:52
@rizennot to work with the database19:52
@rizenthe user doesn't care about the database19:53
@rizenthe user cares that all their features work the way they exepct19:53
SDuensinI know the user doesn't, but the admin does.19:53
@rizenthey want their products and all their variants to be versioned19:53
@rizenand the admin cares about that too19:53
@rizenthe admin also doesn't care about the db19:53
@rizenonly the programmer does19:53
@rizenand so the programmer has to make a sacrifice for the sake of the user and secondarly the admin19:54
SDuensinWell mine has become a complete disaster.19:54
@rizenand that's why the decision has been made19:54
SDuensin(And I used the API!)19:54
@rizenyou either used it inapproriately, or we have not documented it well enough, or there is a bug, or all of the above19:55
@rizenit has nothing to do with the choice to use json in in a table19:55
SDuensinBut the JSON makes it practically unfixable.19:55
@rizen*you* should not care how the data is stored unless *you* are the one writing the product asset19:55
@rizenwhich you are not19:55
SDuensinNo, but this started when I had to set all my products to an insane quantity to get them to show up.19:56
SDuensinNow I have duplicates of everything.19:56
SDuensinExcept, only kinda.  Which is what hurts my head.19:56
@rizenSDuensin: you can sit and bitch and whine if you want, but i won't participate in that discussion. you wanted to know why your RFE was rejected, and that's what i'm responding to19:56
SDuensinI see dupes in the admin area where you can edit variants, but not in the drop down where the user selects one to purchase.19:57
SDuensinSorry if it sounds like bitching.  I just think it's the wrong approach and wanted to debate it a bit.  You've got damn good reasons.  It's just going to require me (and others) to write a ton of scripts to manage their stores efficiently.19:58
+perlDreamerSDuensin, maybe we just need a product with variants that do not do inventory control.19:59
+perlDreamerI'd be happy to write such a beast for you19:59
SDuensinWell, that'd fix one problem.  My main hangup right now (other than fixing my dupes) is "sizes"...20:00
SDuensinI know variants are intended for that, but here's the problem...20:00
SDuensinSay I have a ring that's available in silver and gold, wide and narrow...20:00
SDuensinThat's four variants of one product...20:01
SDuensinNow the ring comes in two dozen different sizes.  My drop down now has almost a hundred items in it!20:01
SDuensinSee how it gets out of hand very quickly?20:03
+perlDreameryes, but like you said, it's a different problem, and I can only tackle one at a time20:03
SDuensinI understand that.  I've considered a few hacks to fix it...20:04
SDuensinEither allowing arbitrary data to be entered when they are viewing the product, or just a quick hack to put a general comments field on the cart during check out.20:04
* SDuensin already hacked his own Shelf to fix pagination.20:05
@rizenSDuensin: put in RFE's for either scripts or UI based controls that do these maintenance functions20:05
SDuensinrizen - Will do.  I figured the need for them would go away over time as the new shop becomes more mature.20:06
@rizenSDuensin: also put in RFE's for API enhancements to make writing said scripts easier and less error prone20:06
@rizenthe shop becomes mature through RFE's20:06
SDuensinAnd after I manage to get out from under this site, I plan on doing some of this work myself.  And other fun WebGUI things!20:06
@rizenuntil we know what walls people are running into it's hard to remove the walls20:06
SDuensinI know.  I just like to understand the wall before I RFE something or report it as a bug.  You guys have enough work without me filing half-baked reports.20:07
+perlDreamerI'd rather sort through half-baked bug reports than have people being frustrated with unreported bugs20:08
+perlDreamerand don't forget, _I'm_ responsible for the Shelf pagination thing.20:09
+perlDreamerI was wrong in considering it a bug, when it was an RFE.20:09
SDuensinThat one was easy.20:09
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CIA-45WebGUI: colin * r9149 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): 20:25
CIA-45WebGUI: Have Thingy check for existance of table and column to prevent20:25
CIA-45WebGUI: SQL from dying.20:25
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+perlDreamerBartJol: mountains of i18n coming when 7.6.8 is released20:47
+BartJolyeah, you told me20:48
+BartJolwhen is that due?20:48
+perlDreamerthis week, I think20:48
+perlDreamerI'm sorry, man.20:49
+BartJolmmm, and I'm already behind20:49
+BartJolhee, not your fault, you're just doing your thing20:49
bernd__Hey everyone,20:49
bernd__I just posted some questions on JeOS.20:49
bernd__Were these readable?20:49
bernd__I was experiencing network problems on my side?20:50
bernd__Hi perlDreamer, hi BartJol, btw.20:50
+perlDreamerno, bernd__   No JeOS stuff from you so far, today20:50
bernd__Ok. I see.20:50
bernd__So I am going to repeat.20:50
bernd__I was thinking about creating a new appliance based on JeOS.20:50
bernd__A more light-weight appliance than the one that is available.20:50
bernd__JeOS is a special flavor of the Ubuntu server edition.20:51
+BartJoloh, first I have to write a mail to the guy that made a loosy report on the state of my new house20:51
bernd__I is specially designed for running inside virtual machines.20:51
+BartJoloh, prolly my opninion in that matter isn't worth that much20:51
+BartJolah, but that might be interesting for me20:51
bernd__So, tell me your wishes.20:51
+BartJolwe have quite some of those, but most run on debian20:52
bernd__What should it come with by default?20:52
bernd__I was thinking of JeOS, because it is very small and William had mentioned it before.20:52
bernd__That was during the discussion about whether to package wre tools separately.20:52
+BartJolwell, I should dive in it for a bit before I can form an opinion20:53
bernd__Besides, there are packages for ubuntu now available.20:53
+BartJolsorry, but my new house is a main priority bbl20:53
bernd__BartJol, no problem!20:53
bernd__If I had a house it would be my priority as well :-)20:54
bernd__perlDreamer, any comments?20:54
* perlDreamer likes fedora :(20:54
+perlDreameris JeOS different from Knoppix?20:54
bernd__Even on Servers?20:54
+perlDreamereven on servers20:54
bernd__No idea.20:54
+perlDreamerI've been a red hat user for a very long time20:55
bernd__I do not know knoppix.20:55
bernd__I just know Debian and Ubuntu.20:55
+perlDreamerbut if red hat/fedora is not available, ubuntu would be my next choice20:55
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bernd__My site is running on ubuntu server and I quite like it.20:55
@tavistobernd__ I have communicated with several Canonical employees about getting WebGUI into Ubuntu. There is some interest (and they were considering using wG to run the Ubuntu website) but the guys seem to be extremely busy and limited on time.20:55
+perlDreamerI've heard lots of good things about Ubuntu.20:55
bernd__It is very need.20:55
bernd__It has the power of Debian testing but is a lot more stable.20:56
bernd__At least it was in the past.20:56
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bernd__That is the reason why I switched from Debian to ubuntu.20:56
@tavistolet me look up my last email b/c they mentioned how if we had interested contributors then it could be done fairly easy20:56
bernd__tavisto, have you seen the new packages by jmarsden?20:57
@tavistono, I did briefly see the emails on the dev list though20:57
bernd__perlDreamer, check this one about JeOS: http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition/jeos20:57
@tavistoThis is a response I received from Malcom Yates @ canonical:   Because it is GPL'd we can provide access to Ubuntu users through the Partner 20:58
@tavistorepo, but a pre-req for this is that there is a deb available, and that the 20:58
@tavistodeb passes our quality and build standards. We can help with that for a 20:58
@tavistoIf you had a MOTU, someone with commit rights to the Ubuntu Universe 20:58
@tavistorepository, then this would enable you to add and maintain with no recourse 20:58
bernd__tavisto, he has published ubuntu packages for intrepid ibex based on the ones by ernesto!20:58
@tavistoto Canonical :-)20:58
@tavistoMOTU is Master Of The Universe20:58
+perlDreamerI like the sound of that20:59
bernd__I would assume that packages which make it into Debian are good enough for Ubuntu as well.20:59
* perlDreamer is a MOTWU20:59
@tavistowell that's what he stated above20:59
@tavistothe deb has to be available20:59
@tavistoand then it must meet their standards. Ernesto told me his code is way beyond the standards anyway20:59
bernd__But is available already! Check http://launchpad.net/~jmarsden/+archive21:00
CIA-45WebGUI: colin * r9150 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 21:00
CIA-45WebGUI: Fix problems created by deleting a linked thing. Added additional error messages21:00
CIA-45WebGUI: and a general method for checking the other thing.21:00
CIA-45WebGUI: colin * r9151 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm i18n/English/Asset_Thingy.pm): Forward porting expanded patch for handling deleted things.21:00
CIA-45WebGUI: colin * r9152 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Help/Asset_DataForm.pm): Correct dataform captcha variable name in the help.21:00
CIA-45WebGUI: colin * r9153 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Help/Asset_DataForm.pm): Backporting dataform template variable (captcha) fix.21:00
bernd__The only problem I see is that it is still a monolithic package.21:01
bernd__perlDreamer, did you check the page on JeOS?21:01
+perlDreamerno, I'm fixing bugs21:02
+perlDreamerI'll look soon, though21:02
+perlDreamersounds nice.  The best thing for wG would be no apache, no mysql, no mod_perl21:05
+perlDreamerI didn't see a list of packages21:05
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bernd__perlDreamer, list of packages?21:06
bernd__You mean, packages that are available for installing on JeOS?21:06
bernd__Again having network problems.21:08
bernd__perlDreamer, did my last replies get through?21:08
+perlDreamerit would be good to see the default list of packages21:11
+perlDreamerit will be a choice between WRE (optimized for wG) and good packages (optimized for sysadmin)21:12
bernd__Available packages are listed on http://packages.ubuntu.com/21:12
bernd__I do not know, which ones are installed by default.21:12
bernd__But the server edition is very light-weight and only comes with a minimum.21:13
bernd__Everything else needs to be apted in.21:13
bernd__Why choose between WRE and admin packages?21:13
bernd__We could use both.21:14
bernd__One tool for managing WebGUI, one for the rest.21:14
+perlDreamerah, but the WRE versions of apache, perl and mysql are all stripped down for maximum performance21:14
+perlDreamerand native ubuntu/debian packages may not be21:14
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bernd__Since canonical provides a server edition of ubuntu, I would bet there packages are optimized for performance as well.21:15
bernd__their packages21:16
bernd__Still, we could modify configuration.21:16
+perlDreamertrue.  When I say stripped down, I mean they only compiled into the WRE only what wG needs.21:16
bernd__But if you preferred the WRE, we could start with the WRE in the beginning.21:17
bernd__That's what I am doing on my V-server.21:17
+perlDreamerfor example, I'm fairly sure that a WRE mysql only includes the database driver for ISAM tables21:17
+perlDreamerso no transactions21:17
bernd__Would that be a problem?21:18
bernd__I mean, it is only disk space.21:18
+perlDreamerthis is true21:18
bernd__And probably not that much.21:18
bernd__JeOS is only 300 Mb in its minimum installation.21:18
bernd__I think, we could waste a bit.21:19
+perlDreamerI remember it being a point of discussion with SquOnk as a package maintainer, but it's probably minor21:19
bernd__But again, there is no reason not to use the WRE.21:19
bernd__Do you think there would be some interest in a new appliance?21:20
+perlDreamerI'd ask on the dev list21:20
bernd__Or better, what would it have to come with to be interesting to others.21:20
bernd__What would be your wish list.21:20
+perlDreamereasy deployment for a new vm21:21
+perlDreamerI'm not sure, I haven't done much thinking about VM's21:21
+perlDreamerSynQ has done a lot of thinking about it though, as I'm sure that rizen and the other hosters have.21:22
bernd__Deployment is probably rather a matter of the virtualization environment?21:22
+BartJolSynQ isn't online that much anymore. You could try to send him a rpivate message via the webgui.org21:23
bernd__I am going to search for his name in the forum.21:24
+BartJolit's koen21:24
bernd__Maybe, he has some good advoice.21:24
bernd__SynQ is koen?21:24
+BartJolI don't think thatsynq exists in the website21:24
bernd__Ah, koen I know.21:24
+BartJolnp, you can bother him as much as you want, the lesser he is bothering me ;)21:25
+BartJol(he's my boss)21:25
bernd__BartJol, I am going to re-active my spam daemon!21:26
bernd__Haven't used it in a while.21:26
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+BartJolwhoa, full house, new years spirit?21:31
* SDuensin is always here. :-)21:31
* perlDreamer suspects that SDuensin is really just an augmented bot.21:37
khenn_I'm just here so I can get my drama fix21:37
* crythias1 just wants everything he asks for. Right now.21:38
* SDuensin is a bot that can write bots then.21:39
SDuensinIs that life?21:39
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+perlDreamerSDuensin: Given that it is a proven fact that I always lie, if I state that I am lying what is the result?21:40
SDuensinThat puzzle leads to alcohol.21:40
+crythias1hrm. while (FALSE==FALSE) do ;21:40
+BartJolalcohol? where?\21:40
* SDuensin always has *some* kind of booze ready to roll.21:42
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SDuensincap10morgan!  That's alcohol!21:42
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+perlDreamerSDuensin, you certainly sound alive, yet not sober, to me21:42
SDuensinUnfortunately, the most potent thing I've had today was a hot cup of Earl Grey.21:44
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+BartJolmmm, maybe I should move to something else than water21:45
dreamersgirlit's gotta be noon somewhere in the world...21:48
+perlDreamerit's after noon in BartJol's house21:48
+BartJolfar after noon21:48
+BartJolyou could call it evening21:48
+BartJolhee dreamersgirl, how're you doing?21:49
dreamersgirlhow 'bout you?21:49
+BartJolwell, busy with my new house21:49
+BartJolso good21:49
dreamersgirlnew house!?!21:49
+BartJolyeah, I've got pictures21:50
bernd__How do we know you are not cheating?21:50
+BartJolme? cheating?21:50
bernd__Ah, definitely not cheating :-P21:50
dreamersgirlnice place!21:51
+BartJolnope, it's really real21:51
+BartJolyeah, lot to be done though21:51
bernd__No, I meant showing some impressive place instead.21:52
+BartJolah, like buckingham palace or the white house21:52
bernd__In any case, much better than the 30 m2 I have at the moment.21:52
+BartJolah, it will be 60 m221:52
bernd__You should not exaggerate! Otherwise it is too obvious.21:52
+BartJol60 isn't that big21:53
bernd__That sounds reasonable.21:53
+BartJolbut I plan to have a polygamous commune after may21:53
bernd__Tolerant neighbors?21:53
+BartJoldunno yet, my neighbour upstairs sounded nice21:53
+BartJolthe rest I don'21:53
+BartJolt know yet'21:53
bernd__Convince them to join your commune!21:54
bernd__Only the females, of course.21:54
bernd__The others are free to leave.21:54
+BartJolthat figures21:54
bernd__BarJol, your homepage has not been translated completely yet!21:55
bernd__Shame on you!21:55
bernd__The gallery still shows some English labels!21:55
+BartJoleeh, it's mostly a testsite, which happens to break once a week. you could almost call it a feature :)21:56
+BartJolyeah, I like the english version better myself21:56
bernd__Happy breaking in that case!21:56
bernd__Did you get that letter finished?21:56
+BartJolI did21:56
bernd__Does that mean we can talk about appliances again?21:57
dreamersgirlSpeaking of translations, do the Dutch words "Nieuw huis" sound anything like "new house" in English?21:57
+BartJoldreamersgirl: a bit21:57
bernd__Can give in phonetic symbols, please?21:57
+BartJolbernd__: yeah, but I think you'll be talking garbled crap to me quite soon21:57
+BartJolooh, webgui phonetic21:58
dreamersgirlrizen would like that21:58
dreamersgirlhe speaks garbled crap quite well, I hear21:58
+perlDreamerweb gooey fone tik21:58
+perlDreamerweb gooey foe net ick21:58
+BartJolbernd__: I mean I won't understand you, because I haven't eaten a lot of chees of that21:58
bernd__I do not know much of it either.21:59
dreamersgirlit's noon here...21:59
bernd__What I want to talk about is the image.21:59
bernd__What should it look like?21:59
bernd__Which software?21:59
dreamersgirlgotta go make lunch for a sick kid.  Later, guys!21:59
+perlDreamersick kid?  How about a hard working husband?21:59
+BartJolok, is that last thing you posted a good intro for me?21:59
bernd__dreamersgirl your wife, perlDreamer?22:00
dreamersgirlyou really want plain rice and dry toast?22:00
+BartJol dreamersgirl, do that22:00
+perlDreamershe's stuck with me, bernd__22:00
+BartJolhow far are you two actually apart?22:00
+perlDreamerabout 30 cm22:00
bernd__perlDreamer, that is what happens if you spend too much time on the chat and neglect your wife!"22:00
dreamersgirlhe's working22:00
dreamersgirlisn't he?22:00
+BartJolhe's just chatting with is european friends22:01
bernd__But can't be much at the frequency he is replying to my questions.22:01
dreamersgirlnow back to the dry toast...22:01
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bernd__perlDreamer, don't you have nice European friends?22:02
+perlDreamerI have very nice european friends22:02
bernd__BartJol, back to garbled crap!22:02
bernd__Which post?22:02
SDuensinHey, in the product variants, what's the difference between "vid" and "variantId"?22:03
+BartJolSDuensin: where do you find those labels?22:04
bernd__No! Not much of interest at the moment.22:04
SDuensinWhen I Dumper::Dump a $variant.22:04
bernd__My question is: what would you want such an image be able to do?22:04
bernd__Which software should it come with?22:04
bernd__What would be your preferred way of administrating it?22:04
bernd__For example, should the wreconsole run by default?22:05
+BartJolso an image of an OS that you wanna use for WebGUI?22:05
bernd__... to be run inside a virtual environment later on.22:05
+perlDreamervid = form variable used to store a variantId ?22:05
bernd__The idea is to generate something easily deployable on root servers.22:06
bernd__Just clone the image and start a new server!"22:06
bernd__Like the appliance that is available already.22:06
bernd__Just smaller.22:06
+BartJolbut aren't we looking for all features inside the wre plus some basics?22:06
bernd__And more comfortable.22:06
SDuensinI'm writing a de-duper.  Just curious.22:07
bernd__Probably, still the WRE at the moment.22:07
bernd__So let us talk about the basics.22:07
+BartJolit should be able to handle those indeed22:07
+BartJolwell, ftp isn't used that much22:08
+BartJola readable firewall should be included22:08
bernd__Which one?22:08
+BartJolwe use shorewall22:08
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bernd__What about an admin tool?22:08
+BartJolwhich is an interface for iptables22:08
bernd__I like webmin, for example.22:08
+BartJoladmin tool for what exactly?22:09
bernd__It has a module for configuring shorewall.22:09
bernd__Something like yast.22:09
bernd__Just web-enabled.22:09
+BartJolthat has some downsides with security stuff22:09
+BartJolI would more think in the direction of what xencentre is for xenserver22:10
bernd__Works through secure http.22:10
bernd__Safe enough?22:10
+BartJolyeah, but a ssl certificate won't be optional22:10
bernd__I have not worked with xenserver yet.22:10
bernd__Why not use a private one?22:10
* SDuensin has never managed to make Webmin work. :-(22:10
+BartJollast week I passed my administration xen exam22:11
bernd__SDuensin, on ubuntu server you just install the deb package.22:11
SDuensinbernd__ - I know, but I load all the optional crap and break it.  :-)22:11
+BartJolactually that's easy, only a lot of facts22:11
bernd__OOps, my accu is almost empty.22:11
bernd__We need to go on some other time.22:12
+perlDreamerwhat is an accu?22:12
+BartJola have wall current at home :)22:12
bernd__Check this thread if you want to participate in the discussion: http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/dev/discuss/poll-wre-utilities-as-a-distribution/6/re-poll-wre-utilities-as-a-distribution22:13
bernd__Yeah, battery. 22:13
+BartJolbut in Dutch (and prolly german) we have differnt words for rechargable batteries (accu) and none recharchable ones: batteries22:13
bernd__Accu probably isn't English at all.22:13
bernd__It means re-chargeable battery.22:13
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+perlDreamerah, thanks22:14
+BartJolthat link breaks with me22:14
bernd__Ok. I need to shut down.22:14
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SDuensinOk, Ubuntu guys, why does SSH work but not SFTP on my server?22:15
+BartJolI'd guess something with your FW22:15
SDuensinIt's all over 22, isn't it?22:15
* SDuensin wants to edit his remote crap with Coda.22:16
+BartJolssh is 443 i thought22:16
+BartJolssl is 22 if I'm correct22:16
SDuensinBut then again, you are on the other side of the planet.  :-)22:16
+BartJoloh yeah, I'm confused22:17
@plainhaosftp needs to be enabled as a service in your ssh_config22:17
danny_mkGood new year everyone, any plans for the 2009 conference yet?22:17
SDuensinplainhao - I did that.  :-/22:18
@plainhaod'oh, nevermind then :)22:18
+BartJolsomething with beer in the hotel bar at the end of the day danny_mk22:18
danny_mksure, would like to see a presentation on the Authentication modules, specifically the OpenId authentication :-)22:18
danny_mkboy, new year, same crap :-)22:19
+BartJolwell, offer to do it yourself22:19
+BartJolJT will be glad with it I think22:19
danny_mkI can do like a new install, probably 20min or so22:19
danny_mkExplain how it works22:19
danny_mklord, come to think about it, I talk to much :-)22:20
danny_mkmaybe 40min22:20
+BartJoldanny_mk: just ask him whether he think that will be a good idea22:20
+BartJoljust give an idea how you wanna build up your presentation22:20
+BartJolhe'll disagree as he feels fit22:21
danny_mkI think JT will be working on OpenId authorization for 8.x.x22:21
+BartJolyeah, but he's always busy around the wuc22:21
danny_mkI guess I will ask when we are closer to the conference22:22
danny_mkwhich is usually in the fall, right?22:22
+perlDreamerdanny_mk, I think he's just rewriting the underlying Auth interface22:22
+BartJolthe 2 I went to were in august and october22:22
+perlDreamerand probably the WebGUI and LDAP plugins22:22
+perlDreamerit's september this year?22:22
+BartJolI dunno, we should ask Ryan22:23
danny_mkHopefully I will not have to judge any canaries during the week of the conference22:23
+BartJolsmall birds?22:23
danny_mkMy schedule usually starts the last weekend in September22:24
danny_mkYes, small birds22:24
+BartJolpheew, it's a webgui site ;)22:24
danny_mkof course22:24
+BartJolbut if you can announce it this early, you should be ok, right?22:25
+BartJolI'd like to meet new people22:25
+BartJolif I'm allowed to go22:25
danny_mkmy new boss seems pretty flexible, as long as I do some work from there I think he will be happy22:26
+BartJoland I haven't seen any small birds at the wuc lunches so far22:27
danny_mkLOL, other than a penguin, you probably wont22:27
danny_mkI really hate the WebGUI captcha image :-(22:27
danny_mkCan't wait to possibly get ReCaptcha working22:28
+BartJolmaybe make a rfe with a suggestion for another captcha tool22:28
danny_mkthat is already in the works22:29
danny_mkI have seen conversations on here about a reCaptcha implementation, just waiting until it is done22:29
+BartJolah, once again I'm too slow :)22:29
SDuensinssh is angering me greatly.22:31
danny_mkperlDreamer:  would love to know what his thoughts are on the Auth interface22:32
* plainhao assumes SDuesin restarted ssh?22:32
SDuensinThe only clue I get is on the client side:   subsystem request failed on channel 022:33
SDuensinI checked the location of my sftp-server binary, made sure world can execute it, restarted ssh again.22:33
+perlDreamerdanny_mk, given that I talked about Auth in my Common WebGUI Programming Mistakes talk last year, I'd say it's just due for a complete overhaul and modernization.22:33
danny_mkis there a public document I can read on the new implementation?22:33
danny_mkguess I will have to wait until 8.x.x22:35
+perlDreamerI have the feeling that he knows what he wants to change, but hasn't formalized anything yet22:35
danny_mkperlDreamer: is there a video of your talk about "Common WebGUI Programming Mistakes"?  specifically about Auth22:45
SDuensinOk, I figured out my ssh problem.  I was being stupid.  It's "sshd_config", not "ssh_config"!  Doh!22:46
+perlDreameryes, it's on wgtv22:46
+perlDreameror should be soon22:46
danny_mklooking there now22:46
danny_mk2008 right?  22:47
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@rizenbopbop is putting up a bunch of new vids this week so it may be in that grouping22:49
+perlDreamer2008, yes22:49
@bopbopit's not up yet, but it can be22:49
@bopbopI'll look for the tape tonight22:49
@rizenif it's not already out there and it's not in that grouping then you'll have to wait on it. we only put out a few new vids per month22:49
+perlDreamerrizen, if you have time, you might want to read back through the logs and make sure I didn't mislead danny_mk about the new Auth in wG 8.22:51
danny_mkrizen: any interest in a OpenId presentation?22:51
@rizendanny_mk: do you mean for WUC 2009?22:51
danny_mkI want to make sure I can take some time off the week of the conference, the sooner we find out when and where the better chance I will have to attend22:52
@rizenyou can demo the module you've created, talk about open id in general and why it's good, and maybe even show off openid in WebGUI 822:52
danny_mkNY would be great :-)22:52
@rizenit's in madison wi22:52
+BartJolthe concourse hotel to be precise22:54
@rizenseptember 9-1122:54
@rizenwed - fri22:54
@rizenthat's when it will be22:54
topsub /cheer22:54
+perlDreamerback to a 3-day format?  is does that include tutorials?22:54
+BartJolah, he's hoping that the dutchies will crash into a building22:55
+BartJolsorry, bad taste alert22:56
+perlDreamernot a problem, BartJol.22:58
+perlDreamerInterPol will be there in 10 minutes in any case22:58
+BartJolhere, or at JT's house?22:59
@rizenyes, 3 day format23:00
@rizenand yes it will include workshops23:00
@rizen3 days, 3 tracks23:00
+BartJolwhoa, that will be busy23:00
danny_mkHmmm... when do I get some of that juicy OpenId rfe karma :-)23:05
SDuensinHey perlDreamer - This script finds my duplicates, but how to I write what I want back to the database using the nice and safe API?  http://webgui.pastebin.com/m351280fa23:05
@rizendanny_mk every time you update it in the bazaar you get karma23:06
@rizenand if you are featured as PBWG you get karma23:07
@rizenwhich you should probably be (bopbop please add danny_mk to the list for PBWG)23:07
@rizenand this year, for the first time, you'll get karma for both attending and presenting at the wuc23:08
+BartJolit's a list? I thought I was special ;)23:08
@rizenyes BartJol you are forever the only PBWG 23:08
+BartJolrather not, I'm getting fraked out by my own picture23:08
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danny_mkI still have to write the tests for the Auth module, probably using WWW::Mechanize, that may be a bit of a challenge.23:20
CIA-45WebGUI: jt * r9154 /experimental/Automat/sbin/migration/checkXrcVsAutomat.pl: test23:27
SDuensinGo Go Automat!23:29
@rizendanny_mk: http://www.webgui.org/wuc/2009-call-for-participation23:32
danny_mkHmmm... I have never written a bio23:33
danny_mkI guess I will have to write one now, 23:33
+perlDreamerdanny_mk, the bios can be very informal23:39
danny_mkWould a title like:  The OpenId::Auth module be OK?23:40
+perlDreamerdanny_mk is a canary-judging, perl hacking machine who lives in $self->getHome and dreams of a world where OpenId is the auth mechanism of choice23:40
danny_mkof course not very creative :-(23:40
danny_mkhmmm... I like that :-)23:41
danny_mkI think I will use it23:41
SDuensinHey perlDreamer - This script finds my duplicates, but how to I write what I want back to the database using the nice and safe API?  http://webgui.pastebin.com/m351280fa23:41
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elninoHi. My network administrator wants to move our production webserver to a virtual host. I cringe at the thought. Do others have thoughts about having production servers on virtual servers? I suppose as long as the hardware can support it and the other virtual servers it's fine?23:44
+perlDreamerSDuensin: use the deleteCollateral method to remove the duplicate23:45
elninoserver would be running zen server and may have four virtual servers.23:45
+perlDreamerthe problem being, of course, if you have duplicate ids in the JSON that it might return either entry23:45
SDuensinDoes setCollateral not check for dupes?  Pretty sure that's what got me in trouble here.23:45
+perlDreamersetCollateral does not care23:46
SDuensinThen it is EVIL!  :-)23:47
+perlDreamerDo you own a hammer?23:47
SDuensinWhy, yes.  I just fixed a Big Wheel with it.23:47
+perlDreamerThen you know that if you hit a window with it that bad things will happen.23:47
SDuensinBad things always happen in Windows.23:48
+perlDreamerThe hammer will not arrest its movement if you use it the wrong way23:48
SDuensinHey man, I just used some crazy dude's sample code.  :-P23:48
* perlDreamer remembers that he's probably responsible for the sample code23:48
* SDuensin grins23:49
+crythias1elnino I'm running on vps23:49
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+crythias1although, it's pretty much all that's running, WebGUI is doing OK on it.23:50
elninoSo, should I take webgui's requirements and multiply it by four? at least when he goes buying the server?23:50
+BartJolperlDreamer: I've got one again: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/940223:51
+crythias1elnino: I think I've missed your requirements.23:51
elninowelll, webgui's requirements. =)23:51
elninoright now, it's on it's own server, and I have no idea what else he wants to put on the other virtual servers.23:52
+crythias1yes, but are you doing 4 webgui sites one per vps, one webgui per four vps, or 4 on one?23:52
elninoso I figured it should be four time more powerful of a server. =)23:52
elninono, i have two sites on one install of webgui - on one virtual server.23:52
elninobut it's our corporate website.23:52
+crythias1is the intention to use your own hardware or outsource?23:52
elninoown hardware.23:52
CIA-45WebGUI: translation * r9155 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Asset_Matrix.pm: Update from translation server23:53
+crythias1then I'd say quadruple webgui. Otherwise, I'd scale as needed from outsource. I'm paying $65/month for unmetered vps, forinstance.23:54
+perlDreamerBartJol: done23:54
+perlDreamerfix will be out with the next release23:54
+BartJoldarn, you're quick23:54
+crythias1erm.. $6023:54
+crythias1http://serveraxis.com/vps.php 1gb RAM, 100GB hd, 10mbit unmetered bandwidth.23:55
@rizenelnino: here's a good rule of thumb23:56
@rizen1 core x 1gb ram will give you about 20,000 page views per day while keeping your load under 1.023:56
@rizenthe same logic works on a vps23:57
+perlDreamerthat's 1 page view every 5 seconds23:58
@rizenthe same logic works on a vps except that the VPS has it's IO tied up by the other slices23:58
@rizenperlDreamer: yeah i know, but it takes into account a few things like page complexity, background processing (workflow), etc23:59
@rizenand keeping the load under 1.023:59
elninocan you explian "under 1.0" 1.0 of what?23:59
@rizenwhich means that you're not stressing the server at all23:59
@rizenload is a hard thing to define elnino23:59
elninowhat do you use to measure load?23:59
--- Day changed Tue Jan 06 2009
@rizenbut generally speaking a load of 1.0 or less means that the server is not being taxed00:00
@rizentype w00:00
SDuensinIt's the number of processes waiting to run in the task queue, isn't it?00:00
@rizenat the command line00:00
@rizena load of 1 means that the server is not having to "share" compute cycles between processes00:00
@rizenas in it's able to process everything in real time00:00
+perlDreamerSDuensin, please pastebin me some bad product variant JSON so i can see it00:01
SDuensinRight.  Nothing is stacked up.00:01
SDuensinperlDreamer - Sure.00:01
@rizenthat gets fuzzy though, when you start talking about threading, multiple-cores, hyperthreading, multiple CPU's etc00:01
SDuensinrizen - true00:01
@perlmonkey2Anyone want to join in on the quest to figure out a robust solution to the SC's synopsis regex's and wide chars?  The regex hangs on byte strings like Arabic.  00:01
SDuensinperlDreamer - Here's the last one in my database:   http://webgui.pastebin.com/m50a50c9e00:02
+perlDreamerSDuensin, if they're all exact duplicates like that, then deleteCollateral will work fine00:04
+BartJolperlDreamer: and another : http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/940300:04
SDuensinIt won't take them both?00:04
@rizenanyway elnino, the point was that the number of sites on your server is pretty much irrelevant, it's more about the number of page views you're dealing with vs the amount of hardware that you have available, vs how much load you can stomach00:05
* SDuensin didn't look up the source yet.00:05
+perlDreamerit finds the first index00:05
SDuensinperlDreamer - Excellent.  Thanks bud!  (I *will* back up first!)00:05
@rizeni like to keep the load on our servers to less than 1.0 during normal usage so that we have plenty of resources available during peak usage00:05
+perlDreamerYou're welcome.  especially since I helped create the mess that you're in...00:05
@rizenhowever, many people run their servers at a much higher load00:05
elninothanks rizen... I had to step to the phone, but am back.. Does the vps server up as the virtual servers need? or does it say "you get this you get that, and that's it"?00:06
SDuensinperlDreamer - No worries.  :-)00:06
@rizenelnino: most of them define fixed resources in advance00:07
elninoah. good to know...00:07
@perlmonkey2load average: 10.06, 10.45, 8.91  :D00:07
elninois that high?  the server I'm look at is: load average: 0.00, 0.02, 0.00  ;P00:08
@rizenperlmonkey2: is that one of our servers? if so i'm wondeirng why we aren't being paged00:08
@perlmonkey2rizen: no, my server00:08
elninobut that is a different server than what I'm talking about. I'm curious as to what that one is....00:08
elnino.42, .37, .23,,  I'm thinking I don't have much to worry about at this time...00:09
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elninoor is that the load my user is causing at this particular time?00:09
@rizenthat's just your load over the last 10 minutes or so00:10
@rizenyou should check it several times through-out the day00:10
@rizenand if you know when your peak usage is, you should check the load at that time00:10
+BartJolperlmonkey2: I suppose you also made the i18n for the survey?00:10
elninoit's be nice if there was a report of the load. that can be emailed me each day.  Any suggested software?00:10
+BartJolwhat do you mean with Section branch goto variable name:00:11
+BartJolI think I understand00:11
+BartJolbut not sure00:11
@rizenelnino: what you want is SNMP monitoring with graphing00:12
@perlmonkey2BartJol: the end of a section can branch, but needs a variable name to go to.  Questions and sections have variable names, and the target variable name would go into the goto variable name.00:12
@perlmonkey2BartJol: patspam has made that a drop down and will be merged at the next oppurtunity.  The drop down should make it much easier to understand.00:12
@rizenthe most common free one on the net is MRTG00:12
elninogreat! thanks! I'll look into that.00:13
@rizenbut you still have to set it u00:13
+BartJolthanks perlmonkey200:13
@perlmonkey2BartJol: anything for you Bart :P00:14
elninorizen. that's for when we own the hardware and router.  My network guy most likely has something setup like that. if not, I'll recommend it to him. Do you recommend anything when the hardware is outsourced? I work with both situations (own and outsourced).00:15
+BartJolok then: drop your trousers00:15
+BartJoland what is a terminal in the survey perlmonkey200:16
@perlmonkey2a URL00:16
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+BartJoland a terminal section?00:16
elninorizen, that first sentence was supposed to be a question.... 00:17
+BartJolperlmonkey2: what is a terminal section?00:18
@rizenelnino: you can use mrtg with that...but there are other tools too when you want to do more stuff00:19
@perlmonkey2BartJol: a section which upon completion will end the survey and if there is a survey or section terminal url given, it will forward to that url.00:19
@rizenlike OpenNMS for example00:19
@rizenat Plain Black we use Zabbix00:19
+BartJolok, that's clear00:20
@rizenit does monitoring, and we can also use it for data trending00:20
@rizenlike monitoring load activity on servers and generating pretty graphs00:20
CIA-45WebGUI: colin * r9156 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix a typo in the i18n help for the ITransact Pay Driver.00:20
CIA-45WebGUI: colin * r9157 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): backporting i18n fix for PayDriver ITransact.00:20
CIA-45WebGUI: translation * r9158 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (Shop.pm Asset_MatrixListing.pm PayDriver_ITransact.pm): Update from translation server00:20
CIA-45WebGUI: colin * r9159 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (12 files in 3 dirs): 00:20
CIA-45WebGUI: Large batch of Help and i18n. Also, make sure that the00:20
CIA-45WebGUI: Shop plugin for the Account always has an array ref in it.00:20
CIA-45WebGUI: colin * r9160 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix some Survey i18n typos in the time limit hoverhelp.00:20
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+BartJolwell, I'm up at a 100% again, luckily it will be a lot lower later this week00:22
+BartJolso go ahead perlDreamer, make my day00:29
+perlDreamerI'm just trying to keep you gainfully employed, BartJol00:29
+BartJoltoo bad it is scrapped from my duties at procolix00:30
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+perlDreamerno way!00:31
+BartJolnow I've gotta find a way to make it fun00:34
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+BartJolallthough I don't mind finding the typ-o's in the english i18n00:35
+BartJolit gives me lots of karma :)00:35
+perlDreamer10 karma for each typo00:39
+perlDreamerDo you know why your job responsibilities changed?00:40
+BartJolwell, I don't think we really get more customers from translating WebGUI and it takes huge amounts of time00:41
+BartJolit's a money thing00:41
elninorizen - dang phone.... thanks for the info!00:41
CIA-45WebGUI: translation * r9161 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Asset_Survey.pm: Update from translation server00:50
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+BartJolmorning Radix-wrk01:29
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CIA-45WebGUI: translation * r9162 /translations/German/German/Account_Inbox.pm: Update from translation server07:36
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bernd__Hey BartJol!12:58
bernd__Sorry for my sudden disappearance yesterday.12:58
bernd__But I was not at home.12:58
+BartJoldon't mind, and you did announce your accu going low13:00
bernd__You mean battery :-)13:00
+BartJolyeah :)13:00
bernd__BartJol, does procolix rent out root servers?13:01
+BartJolso you wanna have root access?13:01
+BartJolI have to ask13:02
+BartJolbut you have limited garantuees13:03
+BartJolI mean, yes we do, but you have limited garantuees13:03
+BartJolbernd__: if you want to have an offer just mail us13:07
+BartJolI was gonna say invoice :)13:08
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bernd2BartJol, I think I missed your reply.13:09
+BartJolprolly you missed my comments13:09
bernd2My connection was interrupted.13:09
+BartJolBartJol: so you wanna have root access?13:09
+BartJolBartJol: I have to ask13:09
+BartJolBartJol: but you have limited garantuees13:09
+BartJolBartJol: I mean, yes we do, but you have limited garantuees13:09
+BartJolBartJol: bernd__: if you want to have an offer just mail us13:09
+BartJolBartJol: I was gonna say invoice :)13:09
bernd2Do you have a rough idea how much you bill per month?13:10
+BartJolactually, no13:10
+BartJolSynQ's the man for that13:11
bernd2This is the best offer I have found so far: http://www.junior-server.de/13:11
bernd2The plans for EUR29 and EUR39 are interesting to me.13:11
bernd2Do you think procolix could compete with that?13:11
+BartJolI would have to ask13:12
+BartJoland it is lunchtime13:12
bernd2Better to send an email to Koen?13:12
+BartJolwith some specs13:12
bernd2Good. Going to do that then.13:12
+BartJolyou'll get a VM13:12
bernd2What does "prolly" mean?13:13
bernd2Ah, I have looked it up.13:13
bernd2You spend too much time on the chat with those Americans.13:13
bernd2I assume it is perlDreamer who is spoiling your English.13:14
+BartJolI learned that from martin13:14
bernd2Guten Appetit!13:15
bernd2How to say that in dutch?13:15
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+BartJolplainhao: you're an early morning type13:54
@plainhaonot really :)14:00
+BartJolbut, you're the new dev guy/girl?14:01
@plainhaohow long did it take you to get comfortable with webgui?14:02
+BartJolwell, my story is quite strange and long14:02
@plainhaooh, haha14:02
+BartJolI started with translating, then moved to front end support14:02
+BartJolnow I'm moving into the backend area14:03
+BartJolbut without a lot of programming experience, this is taking its fair amount of time14:03
@plainhaogood thing there's documentation14:04
+BartJolyeah and when I code, I just steal ideas from existing code14:04
@preactionit took me 6-8 months really14:06
@preactionand i cursed just about everybody on the way14:06
@plainhaohaha, even rizen?14:06
@preactionespecially jt14:06
+BartJolyeah, but you have a natural ability for cursing preaction14:06
@preactionif it's story time: Version 5 of WG was not object oriented. the session "object" was a globally-scoped hash14:07
@preactioni wasn;t here for that, thank god14:07
@plainhaothat sounds ok to me :)14:07
@preactionheh, you do mason work then?14:08
@plainhaoa little bit14:08
@preaction$::session{url} <- the $:: construct was introduced to me with mason14:08
@preactioni believe the problem became mod-perl's handling of globally-scoped variables (they never hit the GC)14:09
@preactionbut the real problem is in the design: a global is a piece of magic14:09
@plainhaowell, you just have to put a lot of trust in the developers14:10
@preactionthat's a good idea for a small project with few developers under your direct control14:10
@preactionwebgui is a large project, a framework plus a CMS, with diverse developers and a community of contributers who have varying levels of programming experience with languages other than Perl14:10
@preactionso the strictly perly constructs can lead to problems14:11
@preactionbut foremost the api/framework must remain safe from the casual errors of programmers (if not also the maliious intents of programmers)14:12
* plainhao agrees14:13
@preactionthat being said, there is a WebGUI Developer's Guide that does a very good job of reaching in-between the lines of the POD14:13
@preactionwhich you're entitled to as a pb employee, and which may in fact already be on its way to your house14:14
@preactioni believe that jamie vrbsky (vrby) would be the person to ask about that, or frank14:14
* plainhao thinks frank sent them yesterday14:15
+BartJolpreaction: do you think it can harm if I manually delete complete workflowinstances from the db?14:15
+BartJolwere reaching to 300 a page of them14:15
@preactionBartJol: yes. "complete" means one activity completed. "done" means all activities are completed14:16
+BartJolbut they don't seem to get done14:16
@preactionyou might want to check which activity is next14:16
@preactionthere's a lastCompleted field i think14:16
@preactionlastActivity maybe?14:16
@preactionthen match that one up to the activityId in the WorkflowActivity table14:17
+BartJoland currentActivityId14:17
@preactioncurrent, yes14:17
@preactionif they're all the same, something strange might be happening, or perhaps there's too much to complete14:17
+BartJolwell most of them are to get syndicated content14:20
+BartJol310 of 33014:21
+BartJolbut that's in 1 site, but the rest seem to be compliant to that14:24
@preactiondo you have 310 syndicated content assets in that site?14:26
+BartJolnope, as far as I know none14:26
+BartJolit's just in the hourly workflow\14:27
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+BartJolhere's a list of the queries I got in the log at debug level: http://www.webgui.org/etcetera/database-cache-gives-an-error/6#id3RRcYPlQPdndEB62BJJEgg14:29
+BartJolmm, there's a PB asset in there, maybe that should be purged14:30
@preactionBartJol: does the workflow instance id "qjHOGGdOUU56GNmJAYaPDQ" still exist in your database?14:33
+BartJolmysql> select * from WorkflowInstance where instanceId="qjHOGGdOUU56GNmJAYaPDQ";14:35
+BartJolEmpty set (0.01 sec)14:35
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+BartJolsorry, wrong db14:37
+BartJolconfusing when you remove the site name\14:38
+BartJolno it does not14:42
+BartJoleven in the right db14:42
+BartJolsorry that it took some time preaction14:45
@preactionthen they are getting deleted eventually. perhaps you need to set spectre to run through workflows more quickly?14:46
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+BartJolok spectre settings:14:50
+BartJol"maxWorkers" : 4,14:50
+BartJol"timeBetweenRunningWorkflows" : 10,14:50
+BartJol"suspensionDelay" : 60,14:50
+BartJol"ignoreEnvProxy" : 014:50
+BartJolafter consulting the administrator guide I set the timebetween workflows to 4 sec14:54
+BartJolnow running spectre in debug mode14:56
+BartJolwith this amount of workflow a setting of 2 seemed even better14:59
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CIA-46WebGUI: yung * r9163 /branch/survey-rfe/ (4 files in 2 dirs): rfe 9198: Turn Survey Edit Section/Question/Answer fields into RTEs15:51
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+BartJolpreaction: the amount of workflows seems to steadily decrease at a rate of 20-25 sites a minute16:35
+BartJolonly 9 hours and it should be around 0 again...16:37
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+BartJolmorning SDuensin18:05
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elnino_laptophi.   did the new gallery get released yet? or is that 7.6?18:10
SDuensinHi elnino_laptop.   Dunno that one.18:11
+BartJolisn't that even 7.5?18:13
+BartJolor will there be another gallery too?18:14
elnino_laptopit is. but I just saw this http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/roadmap, so I'll read up on when gallery 2.0 will be expected.18:18
SDuensinI'm gonna guess "when it's done".18:19
elnino_laptopyeah, I just saw this: "Also, please do not contact Plain Black about release dates for these features. We don't publish them, and we won't tell you if you ask."  Even thought they did announce at wuc, I just don't remember what version they talked about.  18:20
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CIA-46WebGUI: translation * r9164 /translations/German/German/Asset_GalleryAlbum.pm: Update from translation server18:41
bernd_perlDreamer, is there any reason that all the help modules are named "<something> variables"?18:55
bernd_The word "variables" seems pretty superfluous to me.18:55
bernd_I am thinking to get rid of it in the German translation.18:55
bernd_What do you think?18:55
+perlDreamerI'm not following you bernd_.  Can you give me 1 example?18:55
bernd_I am talking about modules listed in the help overview.18:56
bernd_Example: Matrix Main Template Variables18:56
bernd_Isn't it all about variables?18:56
+perlDreamerI see.  At one point, there were other entries too.18:57
+perlDreamerthen they got removed18:57
bernd_Do you think there will be other entries, again?18:57
SDuensinHey gang.18:57
+perlDreamerI don't think so18:57
bernd_Currently, it just makes names longer.18:57
bernd_So, safe to remove it?18:57
bernd_The same is probably true for "template".18:58
jmarsdenbernd_: I made a test JEOS VM last night, and the webgui .deb works fine in it.  See http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/dev/discuss/poll-wre-utilities-as-a-distribution/1418:59
bernd_I am thinking about creating an appliance based on JeOS.19:00
* plainhao 's laptop fan is spinning out of control.19:00
bernd_That will be a good testing ground.19:00
bernd_jmarsden, thanks for the good work!19:00
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bernd_I am really happy about ubuntu packages being available now.19:00
SDuensinThey are?  Cool!19:00
bernd_SDuensin, check the URL he just posted.19:00
SDuensinIn a product, how do I get the keywords associated with it?  I've looked over the code for product, sku, and asset and can't find it.19:01
jmarsdenNo problem.  I also heard back from Ernesto in email, I found one minor bug in his packaging... we're talking -- hopefully we can work together to get the .deb officially into both Debian and Ubuntu19:01
bernd_Even better!19:02
bernd_I just read you have prepared an image already.19:02
bernd_Ever tried to run with kvm?19:02
bernd_I learned JeOS is optimized either for kvm or vmware.19:03
+perlDreamerSDuensin, check the process method in Asset.pm19:03
SDuensinperlDreamer - checking!  Thanks.19:03
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@tavistoplainhao, you know about the smcfan control app for mac right? It's pretty cool if you want to control your fan speed & cpu temp19:04
jmarsdenbernd_: I don't have a CPU with the VM hardware (my desktop is an E5200), so no, I have not used KVM.  I use virtualbox-ose mostly for VMs under Linux.19:04
bernd_What is the best virtualization environment according to your experience?19:05
SDuensinperlDreamer - Dunno how I missed that.  Thanks bud!19:05
* SDuensin uses a LOT of VMware.19:05
+perlDreamerSDuensin, you're welcome19:05
SDuensinFor Linux-on-Linux, something like Xen is probably more efficient.  But for general VMs (I even have a DOS one running), VMWare server is my favorite.19:06
bernd_But vmware is not free, correct?19:06
bernd_It is just the vmplayer.19:06
jmarsdenIt's all a matter of "best for what", I think.  VMware is everywhere and runs under Windows as well, which is good for appliances intended as "try it and see" tools for newcomers.  I need to go to work now (!), but hopefully will post info on creating the image with vmbuilder later -- then people can build an image using KVM or VMware or whatever they prefer19:06
SDuensinperlDreamer - rather than enter all those ring sizes by hand, I'm doing another script.  :-)19:07
jmarsdenVMware Server 2 is now no-cost.  It is not free as it free software...19:07
bernd_I am probably going to be your first tester!19:07
bernd_Looking forward to it.19:07
SDuensinYep!  I run VMWare Server 2.0 on my main server.  That's all it does.  Any actual services are in VMs.19:07
SDuensinMakes upgrading easy.  Build a bigger, faster machine - just copy the VMs over.19:07
SDuensinAnyway, BBIAB.19:08
jmarsdenOK, sounds good.  Nice to "meet" you folks here on IRC.  I'm off to work... bye for now!19:08
bernd_SDuensin, do you need an IP per guest?19:08
bernd_Or is it possible to get around that.19:08
jmarsdenI suspect you could put each image on a Host-only "virtual network" inside the host machine and then route stuff port by port from the real LAN to different VMs... but I have not tried that; I just use bridged mode and one IP per VM here.19:12
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+perlDreamerwhat's what this world needs, more bernd's19:16
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bernd2Now we have two at least!19:16
+perlDreamerand a young one in development19:16
bernd2perlDreamer, can you kick bernd_, pleas?19:16
+perlDreamerI am without kick privileges19:16
bernd2She is rather an Anke (her mother).19:16
bernd2Hm, can I kick my former self myself?19:17
+perlDreamerI think you have to be a channel op19:17
* bernd2 hates wireless connections.19:18
+perlDreamertavisto: could you please do a "slash kick bernd_" ?19:18
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@tavistoI'd rather do a slash kick perlDreamer19:18
bernd2Thanks, rizen!19:18
bernd2Was probably fun kicking me =)19:19
@tavistoand then a reverse roundhouse kick to finish him off.... like chuck norris19:19
+perlDreamertavisto, I thought you'd prefer a hack slash punch perlDreamer19:19
bernd2What about the "chop into pieces" part?19:19
+perlDreamerchopped perlDreamers are not good at fixing bugs19:20
+perlDreamerbut the bruised and bloody ones seem to get by19:20
SDuensinbernd2 - I use an IP per guest, yes.  You can do different network types:  Bridged, NAT, and Host Only...19:26
SDuensinBridged is like a real PC.  It gets it's own IP.19:27
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bernd2I am going to try them all :-)19:27
SDuensinNAT shares the IP of the host, but is outbound only.19:27
bernd2Is it difficult to get additional IPs for a root server?19:27
SDuensinHost Only assigns a private IP on a network only available to the host and the VM.19:27
bernd2Talking about public ones.19:27
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SDuensinDepends on who the provider is.  Most will allow you to purchase more if you can justify them.19:28
bernd2For hosting of multiple webgui appliances on a single root server you would require an IP per appliance, correct?19:29
bernd2Good. Or rather bad. But now I know for sure.19:30
SDuensinLike I said, most places will sell you additional IPs (I think my second one is a whole dollar a month) if you can justify the need.19:30
@perlmonkey2bernd2: you can /nick your ghost19:30
@perlmonkey2in the future19:30
bernd2Ah. I will try to remember!19:31
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SDuensinMan, it's killing me to add all these variants.  Maybe I need to spend time on 'Plan B'.19:40
deafferretSDuensin: joining the circus?19:42
+perlDreamerwhat is Plan B?19:44
@perlmonkey2SDuensin: What's plan B?19:47
SDuensinAdd an optional "Size" field.19:48
SDuensinI can't have variant lists with 100+ items in them.  Users are gonna freak out.19:49
bernd2perlDreamer, helpvar_albums and helpvar_albums_rss in Asset_Gallery.pm show the same help text.20:00
bernd2Is that a bug?20:00
+perlDreameryou bet it is!20:00
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bernd2perlDreamer, I am going to see Klaus in a few minutes.20:11
bernd2Do you want me to say hello?20:11
+perlDreamerPlease do.20:12
CIA-46WebGUI: translation * r9165 /translations/German/German/ (Asset_Gallery.pm Asset_GalleryAlbum.pm): Update from translation server20:12
bernd2Happy hacking until midnight!20:12
SDuensinThe Cart isn't pluggable, eh?  Hmm.20:12
bernd2I am gone for today.20:12
SDuensinLater bernd2 20:12
+perlDreamerlater, bernd220:12
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* SDuensin just doesn't know where to stick this extra data.20:12
+perlDreameradd it to the variant data, maybe?20:14
* plainhao thanks tavisto for suggesting smcfan control, installed a similar pref pane earlier (fan control).20:15
* SDuensin will have to learn more before attempting that.20:18
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elninois the roadmap page on webgui.org still things to come or are some of those already released?20:56
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* perlDreamer goes to the gym21:14
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@rizenFor those of you who aren't aware, we have published the call for participation for WUC 2009. http://www.webgui.org/wuc/2009-call-for-participation21:51
@rizenPlease sign up if you want to do a talk.21:52
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elninohow does one do the little asterix in the chat window like perlDreamer going to the gym?22:15
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deafferret/me goes to gym22:22
deafferretelnino: my client is irssi. I don't know what you're using.22:23
deafferretdid you try typing "/me does something" ?22:27
* elnino I'm back22:43
elninothanks deafferret!22:43
deafferret"/me is back" would have made more sense  :)22:44
elninoI suppose.. 22:44
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elninoin the database schema, in the asset table, what is the difference between lockedby and statechangedby? can the state change without being locked?23:02
@Haargdeleting or cutting to the clipboard change the state but don't lock the asset23:07
elninoah,  ok.  thanks!23:07
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* danny_mk leaving to get a haircut23:28
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--- Day changed Wed Jan 07 2009
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* SDuensin has been AFK all frickin' day.00:26
SynQI'm looking for any australian person00:26
SynQwho has a phone number :)00:26
SDuensinNot I.  Sorry.00:26
SynQI kno00:26
SDuensinCan I just willy-nilly add new fields to a product variant?  Can the rest of the shopping system cope with that?00:27
SynQI have no idea00:30
SynQwould you like to buy a box of 100 Goey dolls from me?00:31
+perlDreamerSynQ: Isn't it 4:00am in Australia?00:32
+perlDreamerpatspam will usually log in around 4:00pm or 5:00pm PST00:35
+perlDreamerwhich is 2.5 hours from now00:35
SDuensinSo perlDreamer - screwing with the variant fields won't break the cart?  Or am I starting a cascade of changes?00:40
+perlDreamernot sure00:40
+perlDreamerjust the first thing I thought of00:40
SynQat which time I will be vast asleep00:41
SDuensinIt opens a few cans of worms with the display, too, but for what I need, I can fake it.00:41
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elnino_laptophi. We have a matrix on our site, and the security settings were set so only internal people can post new products, well, one come thru as spam.01:30
elnino_laptopso, couple questinos,01:30
elnino_laptopobviously new listings in a matrix are not version tagged, otherwise, it would have just been version tagsed, and second, was this security hole reported for 7.5.24?01:31
+perlDreamerelnino_laptop, I have not seen any Matrix bugs in months, maybe years01:41
+perlDreamerThe matrix was rewritten and upgraded for 7.6, however01:41
elnino_laptopok, well this is defately a bug.. Security is ignored, 4 anonymous submissions were made on a matrix that only our marketing people should be able to.01:41
elnino_laptopi'm writting up a bug report now.01:42
elnino_laptopso.. is there a way to set up the approval system to be enforced when the version tag is committed by others than in a particular group? these went right thru because marketing disabled the approval system.01:50
+perlDreamerelnino, that would take a custom workflow01:51
+perlDreamerand, as you noted, matrix listings are not versioned01:51
* perlDreamer sends elnino_laptop a big stick to hit the marketing people with01:52
elnino_laptopbut that's funny, because as far as I can tell, the submission had committed version tags.01:52
elnino_laptop* be glad to01:52
* elnino_laptop be glad to01:52
+perlDreamerthere's a moderation system to it, it looks like01:56
+perlDreamerbut there's no version control01:56
+perlDreamerlistings can be approved or disproved by a group01:56
+perlDreamerthat's from a very, very quick read through on the code01:56
elnino_laptopwell, yea, that was what was verion taged, the CS system that was created by the new listing. I guess I misspoke. The actual *listing* wasn't version tagged which I find to be interesting.01:57
* elnino_laptop is curious about that decision.01:57
elnino_laptopoh well01:57
elnino_laptopI recommendd that the matrix be taken down for now.  =)01:58
elnino_laptopand I'll revisit (your's) wuc discussion on workflows, it was too much for my brain at that time of the day if I remember...01:58
elnino_laptopI think it was yours...01:58
+perlDreamerit was probably rizen, or preaction01:59
+perlDreamerbut they're not much harder than macros, really02:01
+perlDreamerthey can either be very complex, or very simple02:01
elnino_laptopit was preaction.. I get your handles mixed up.02:02
+perlDreamerit's easy to tell us apart, he's the good looking one with the tie02:02
elnino_laptop=)  maybe I should teach a class on workflows so I stop ignoring them.. 02:03
elnino_laptophowever, we're expecting to have a new baby in July, so, not quite sure if that would be too smart on my part.l02:04
+perlDreamerI hope that this new baby is being easy on you?02:05
elnino_laptopThanks! I've never annouced anything so publicly before...  =)02:05
+Radix-wrkcongrats elnino :)02:05
elnino_laptophopefully, but the first was the easy one, and everyone says the second is going to be just the opposite.02:05
elnino_laptopSo we're in BIG trouble.02:05
elnino_laptopThanks Radix-wrk02:05
+perlDreamerwell, with our boys Kathy was sicker than a dog for 8 months02:06
+perlDreamerso the trend can be broken!02:06
+Radix-wrkmy sister is going to have her second around the same time actually02:06
+perlDreamerwe need to throw a virtual baby shower or something02:06
elnino_laptopactually, health wise, pregancies are easy on me.. 02:06
+perlDreamerwhat kind of internet stuff does a baby need these days?02:07
+perlDreamermp3 player02:07
elnino_laptopI dont' know how that would work, but that could be fun.02:07
+perlDreamercordless mouse02:07
+perlDreamerbaby gear from Thinkgeek02:07
CIA-46WebGUI: jt * r9166 /experimental/Automat/lib/ (7 files in 2 dirs): 02:08
CIA-46WebGUI: many bug fixes02:08
CIA-46WebGUI: lots of improvements to dns management02:08
elnino_laptopthat's my boss's favorite place to shop.02:08
+Radix-wrkget them a chumby02:08
* elnino_laptop now has to look at what a chumby is.02:10
+perlDreamerHaarg: any releases today?02:10
+perlDreamerwhich branch?02:10
@Haargdoing it right now02:10
+perlDreamerokay, I'll hold off on this commit then02:10
@rizenperlDreamer could you check your email and make sure you got something about automat?02:10
elnino_laptopeek.. I can't get rid of the listing on the matrix....I rolled back the CS versoin tags, that probably screwed it up.  grr.02:10
+perlDreamerrizen: got two02:11
@rizenexcellent, you should have gotten 202:11
+perlDreameralthough, I'm not allowed to work on WebGUI anymore02:11
+perlDreamerI was fired by Vrby02:11
@rizenoh yeah?02:11
@rizenwhy is that?02:11
+perlDreamerfor being 5 months late turning in conference slides02:11
+perlDreamermake that 7 months02:12
@rizenyou'll just have to turn your next set in 7 months early02:12
@rizenand then all will be right with the world02:12
+perlDreamerThere's a next WUC in my future?02:12
@rizenisn't there?02:12
+Radix-wrkelnino: chumby.com funnily enough - but essentially it's a mini linux computer with touch screen, soft padded sides and an accelerometer - it's very hackable and you could do some cool stuff for kids on it.02:12
* perlDreamer is out of ideas, and I can't enough new bad code to talk about for Game Show, the Sequel02:13
@rizenwould you like for me to come up with a few ideas that might inspire you?02:13
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CIA-46WebGUI: graham * r9167 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/t/ (Asset/File/GalleryFile/Photo/comment.t Session/DateTime.t): fixing tests for new strings04:01
CIA-46WebGUI: graham * r9168 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.5.38 release04:01
-!- Radix-wrk changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.5.38-stable | 7.6.7-beta | WRE 0.8.5 ] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org | Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com/04:20
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CIA-46WebGUI: graham * r9169 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.5.37-7.5.38.pl: fix upgrade script04:23
CIA-46WebGUI: jt * r9170 /releases/WebGUI_7.5.38-stable: Release 7.5.38-stable04:23
CIA-46WebGUI: graham * r9171 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (4 files in 4 dirs): preparing for 7.5.39 dev04:23
+perlDreamertime to commit04:27
jmarsden|workDid the fix re. licence info for that one last file Ernesto was hopng for get into 7.5.38 ?04:38
+perlDreamerwhich file was that, jmarsden|work?04:39
jmarsden|workI forget; in July there were 4, days ago he said ther was one more 3rd party file he needed a licence info change for for full Debian approval as being free software04:40
jmarsden|workI'll grab the new tarball later tonight and see if I can find anything about it in the changelog.04:42
+perlDreamerthere was a license change in 7.5.31, but that was many weeks ago04:46
+perlDreamerbut it's unrelated04:51
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r9172 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix a typo in the i18n for Gallery RSS album RSS template variable loop.04:51
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r9173 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Forward port i18n fix for Gallery Album RSS list.04:51
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jmarsdenWhy do the upgrade_*.pl scripts in docs/upgrades/ all lack an initial #!/usr/bin/perl line?  Is there any way a patch to fix this would be accepted into the official WebGUI source code?08:01
jmarsdenErnesto patches them all in his Debian package, but it would seem productive to get that change into the "upstream" sources.08:02
@preactionjmarsden: they don't need one as they should not be run by themselves08:02
jmarsdenMaybe, but without an indicator like that you can't as easily tell that they are Perl scripts , for instance using file to determine which files in the tree are Perl and counting lines of code, or whatever... they may not "need" such a line, but it would be cleaner if they had one, wouldn't it?08:04
@preactionit would get accepted, but i would think that /usr/bin/env perl would be best08:05
@preactionperhaps asking the dev mailing list would be best08:05
jmarsdenOK, thanks.08:06
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WebGUIno patspam09:08
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bernd_Uh, plain black midnight session?10:09
bernd_Good morning everyone!10:09
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CIA-46WebGUI: martin * r9174 /experimental/ (28 files in 5 dirs): The new graphing system initial import.18:34
CIA-46WebGUI: martin * r9175 /experimental/ (9 files in 2 dirs): Move the ChartMagick stuff to the right directory as was the plan all along...18:34
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juanin the Collaboration System, mail tab, can i configure a gmail account?18:50
+MrHairgreasedoes gmail feature pop3?18:51
+perlDreamerMrHairgrease, what is ChartMagick?18:53
+MrHairgreaseI am recreating the the graphing system in webgui agnostic modules that will be placed on CPAN18:56
+MrHairgreaseand webgui will be using it18:56
+MrHairgreaseand whe i say recreating i also mean making it better18:57
+MrHairgreaseso i chceked out some of the available charting systems on cpan18:57
+MrHairgreaseand i tried to make mine better than them18:58
+MrHairgreaseIt's not finished yet18:59
+MrHairgreasebut it's going good18:59
+perlDreamerdude, for  you that will be no problem18:59
+perlDreamerOh, uber-European hacker18:59
+MrHairgreaseso if you like, please chcek it out18:59
+perlDreamerdo you have tests?18:59
+MrHairgreasein the scripts directory there are a number of test scripts18:59
+MrHairgreaseno tests yet18:59
juanMrHairgrease, gmail uses pop19:00
+MrHairgreasethe files in the scripts directory render charts for you 19:00
+MrHairgreasemost of em to out.png19:00
juanbut it uses a different port19:01
+MrHairgreaseanyway if you have the time, please let me know how you like th api19:01
+MrHairgreasether's no pod yet, but you should be able to figure it out pretty easily from the test scripts19:01
+MrHairgreasejuan: i dunno if i can work if gmail uses a non-standard port19:02
+MrHairgreasei can try to find out though19:02
+MrHairgreasehang on19:02
+MrHairgreasejuan: from the code it seems that you could try to stick the port number onto the url19:04
+MrHairgreaseso if gmail has pop on pop3.gmail.com on port 879919:05
+MrHairgreasetry to use pop3.gmail.com:879919:05
+MrHairgreaseotherwise I don't think it'll work19:05
juanok, i am going to try19:10
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* danny_mk went to feed the canaries19:52
+perlDreamerjust how many canaries do you own?19:52
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* danny_mk back from feeding and watering the canaries20:19
danny_mkI have about 90+20:19
+perlDreamerdoes that cause a problem with disposal, or do you have a nitrate business on the side?20:31
danny_mkLOL, no, just throw the stuff in the trash.  It is not as much as you would think.  during the worst year if would probably be the same as a couple of weeks of human disposal :-)20:34
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@perlmonkey2quiet today?22:34
* bernd_ is drinking a cup of chai latte and enjoying the silence.22:35
* danny_mk is relaxing after having too much to eat.22:37
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CIA-46WebGUI: translation * r9176 /translations/German/German/ (Asset_Wobject.pm Asset_Gallery.pm): Update from translation server22:58
CIA-46WebGUI: translation * r9177 /translations/German/German/ (Asset_Gallery.pm Asset_GalleryAlbum.pm): Update from translation server22:58
+perlDreameryes, bernd_?23:23
+perlDreamerI just got back from running.  You have excellent timing.23:24
bernd_One moment, please. I am brushing my teeth :-)23:24
bernd_Ok, back again!23:25
bernd_I have a quiz for you:23:26
CIA-46WebGUI: translation * r9178 /translations/German/German/ (Asset_Gallery.pm Asset_GalleryAlbum.pm): Update from translation server23:26
CIA-46WebGUI: translation * r9179 /translations/German/German/Asset_Gallery.pm: Update from translation server23:26
bernd_If you have an image in print quality (300 dpi) and screen quality (72 dpi),23:26
bernd_what's the approximate size ratio then?23:26
+perlDreamernot sure, bernd_23:27
bernd_It says 3-fold in the docs.23:27
bernd_But imo it should be 10-fold.23:28
bernd_Or am I wrong here?23:28
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+perlDreamer300/72 =~ 423:28
bernd_16-fold in that case.23:28
bernd_I am referring to the "maxSpacePerUser description" key in Asset_Gallery.pm23:29
+perlDreamerlet me read the docs for that23:29
+perlDreamerI thought that referred to disk space23:29
+perlDreamerwhich is loosely correlated to dpi23:29
bernd_Ah no, wrong key actually.23:29
bernd_I have to check again.23:30
bernd_It is "imageDensity description", in fact.23:30
bernd_Should be changed to 16-fold, do you agree?23:31
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+perlDreamerI think that is an approximate number23:32
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+perlDreamerand 16 fold would refer to the size, not the resolution?23:32
bernd_But it says "The density of the image. Print-quality images are more than three times the size of web-quality images."23:32
bernd_Maybe it should be "... three times the resolution ..."23:33
+perlDreamerunless, due to compression, the relation is not linear23:33
bernd_If we changed it to resolution it would be always true.23:33
bernd_Almost done. Thanks for your time!23:35
bernd_Have a good night!23:35
+perlDreamerGood night, bernd_!23:36
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+perlDreamerdanny_mk: any thoughts about this: http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/CSuWYwoOSn8/article.pl23:45
danny_mkyeah!  Usage is low because people don't understand what it does and your average user will not bother with learning new technology (even simple solutions)23:47
danny_mkThe fact that facebook, yahoo, aol, myspace, etc... are using it should increase acceptance and usuage23:48
+perlDreamerso really, this is just anti-OpenID, inflammatory flamebait23:49
danny_mkI would think so :-)23:49
danny_mkthink about it, do you really want to keep track of all your login and passwords to every system/network/etc... you have created?23:50
danny_mkI have actually adapted it at work and acceptance was great23:51
danny_mkHave you tried it yet?23:51
+perlDreamerhaven't ever needed it23:52
danny_mkGive me a few min of your time and I will show you what it does23:53
+perlDreamerI think I understand the basic concepts23:54
danny_mkDo you have a few min?23:54
+perlDreameryes, unless I get an IM ping back :)23:54
danny_mkDo you have a yahoo, aol, myspace, facebook, google account?23:54
+perlDreamerI have a google account23:55
danny_mkalright, point your browser to openid.dbash.com23:56
danny_mkClick on:  If you would like to try it out sign in here! Sign In23:56
danny_mkand use your google account to signup23:56
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--- Day changed Thu Jan 08 2009
+perlDreamerseems slow00:00
+perlDreamerstill loading after the google authorization request00:00
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danny_mksure, my network connection is slow as hell00:02
+perlDreamerokay, got the auth email, hit the link and logged in00:03
danny_mkI am looking at upgrading my cable modem service to a business 00:03
+perlDreamerbut there's no way to tell if I'm logged in or not00:03
+perlDreamerhow would I tell the difference?00:03
danny_mkyou don't see a difference, the account link in the middle of the page?00:04
+perlDreamerwhat is my OpenId identifier?00:04
+perlDreamerjust the email address?00:04
danny_mkgive me a sec00:04
danny_mkYou don't see a message like this one:  Welcome Daniel M you have succesfully logged into this site using your OpenId account.00:07
+perlDreamerwhat's the openId identifier?00:09
danny_mkOK, I can see that you did create an account.  and that your account is active00:09
danny_mkThe openid identifier is a unique identifier that identifies you on the web. 00:10
+perlDreamerhow do I know what mine is?00:10
danny_mkIt seems that you created and activated your account but did not login00:11
danny_mkclick on the link again and login and you will see your identifier under your account settings00:11
danny_mkI don't want to post it here00:11
danny_mknot that it matters anyway00:11
+perlDreamerthe problem with that is that I don't now how to login00:11
danny_mkclick the link that you used to create the account!00:12
+perlDreamerah now I'm logged in00:13
danny_mkyes, steps are to create->activate/verify->login00:13
+perlDreamerhow do I log out?00:13
+perlDreameror access my profile?00:13
danny_mklook in the middle of the page, you have the:    Hello Daniel M. Click here to log out.  My Account links00:15
danny_mkwell. it will show you your settings :-)00:15
+perlDreamerI can safely change the username from the megastring to something else?00:16
danny_mkIt all works the same as Auth::WebGUI00:16
+perlDreamerfrom a usability standpoint, I'd ask the user for a username during the create process00:16
danny_mkI did, you missed it!  :-P00:17
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+perlDreamerI'm a very bad user00:18
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danny_mkMaybe I should have some bells, whistles and lighting...00:19
danny_mkUsernames can get pretty long because of the OpenId identity00:19
danny_mkdid you notice yours?00:19
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+perlDreameryes, it's much longer than I would remember.00:26
danny_mkYou don't have to remember it.   I set my yahoo one to be https://me.yahoo.com/danny_mk00:27
danny_mkyou can probably set your google one to something like https://me.google.com/perlDreamer00:28
danny_mkYou have to login to your google account and change it just like I did my yahoo one00:28
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+perlDreamerMaybe I'll tinker with it later00:28
Lisetteif i have  a payDriver, how to do to get something of the definition by code?00:36
daviddelikatso I've been working on this stray character in Syndicated Content...  I can't quite figure out where the character is coming from, but I can get rid of it.  is that an acceptable solution?00:40
+perlDreamerif the user can enter it, we have to deal with it00:40
daviddelikatthat is the problem, I can't enter it... even if I try to paste it in it doesn't go wrong.00:41
daviddelikatthe only one who can make it happen is kristi00:42
+perlDreamerkristi is all powerful00:42
daviddelikatthe other thing is that it only shows up in certain places.00:43
daviddelikatthe character is there the whole time, but gets ignored by the browser I think00:43
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* danny_mk leaves to have a few drinks at the bar00:46
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Lisettehow to do to instace a object and get a value of your definition.00:53
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CIA-46WebGUI: jt * r9180 /experimental/Automat/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Automat.pm: more recent changes01:23
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CIA-46WebGUI: jt * r9181 /WebGUI/ (28 files in 3 dirs): added #!/usr/bin/env perl to all utility scripts01:51
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CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r9182 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Account/Contributions.pm: Add the WikiPage to the list of contributions shown in the Account Contributions tab.02:20
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+perlDreamerpatspam, did Koen get a hold of you yesterday?02:47
+perlDreamerhe was looking for you02:47
+Radix-wrkkoen was looking for me too02:52
+Radix-wrkmust be an aussie thing02:52
+perlDreamerhe _did_ say he was looking for an aussie with a phone number02:53
@rizeni've got a crazy question02:53
@rizenlet's say i want to control physical door access from webgui02:53
@rizenlet me back up a sec02:54
@rizenlet's say i have an office space somewhere 02:54
+Radix-wrkaccess to data centre only via website?02:54
@rizenand i want to put a keyless entry system on that office02:54
@rizenand i wanted people to be able to go to a webgui site and "checkout" the office02:54
@rizenat which point webgui would give them a code02:54
@rizenand then they could go to the door02:55
@rizentype in the code02:55
@rizenand get access02:55
@rizenthere would likely also be a workflow triggered that would remove the code from the door after a certain period of time02:55
@rizenthe webgui programming part i can do no problem02:55
asciiwell, i blame kal and jordon.02:55
@rizenthe internet connected door hardware is the problem02:55
@rizenwhere would i find such a beast02:56
@rizenit has to exist02:56
+perlDreamerrizen, possibly not02:56
+perlDreamerconnecting things to the internet is not known to increase their security02:56
+perlDreamerinstead, look for electronically controlled doors, and we can figure out the glue02:57
@rizenok well if i can even connect it to ethernet02:57
@rizeni can then write a server that runs on site02:57
@rizenwhich webgui can connect to over ssh02:57
+perlDreameroffhand, I'd drive it off a small USB module that talks to a 9000 series PIC brick and some HV interface02:57
@rizenwell i found this: http://www.keyless.com/K1SeriesStandAlone.htm02:57
@rizenbut it says you have to connect at 9600 baud over a terminal02:57
@rizenso i'm guessing it might work02:58
@rizenvia an rs232 cable02:58
@rizenor something02:58
jmarsden|workSure, just put a mini-itx box with a serial port near it and hook that to the door hardware via serial and to the LAN via Cat5.02:59
+perlDreamerif it works over rs232, you should be in business02:59
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@rizenthis manual shows how to connect: http://www.keyless.com/PDF/K1ERM1105.pdf02:59
@rizenthat looks promising Radix-wrk 03:01
@rizencrap, it requires a card to enter though03:02
@rizensince this can be virtually anybody, it needs to be a keypad03:02
+perlDreamerthere's a CPAN module for doing serial port programming, but you can also do it via perl builtins and POSIX03:02
jmarsden|workDevice::SerialPort -- see http://search.cpan.org/~cook/Device-SerialPort-1.04/SerialPort.pm03:03
@rizenthat is just too cool03:04
+Radix-wrkwonder if X10 do anything like that03:04
jmarsden|workUgh.  X10 is for home use stuff, I wouldn't use it in an office or factory environment.03:04
* jmarsden|work wrote Perl code to talk over serial lines to Vacuum pumps and monitors at a football-field size proton accelerator (medical facility) a few years ago... and it still works :)03:06
@rizennice jmarsden|work 03:07
jmarsden|workIt was fun... the serial stuff went to Portmaster boxes that had ethernet... and then nagios could monitor all this stuff and page the duty techs if the vacuum got too poor, or if a pump overheated, etc.03:08
+perlDreameris the webgui empire down right now?03:12
@rizenit stops responding for about 10 minutes at around 7pm every day03:13
@rizenworking on a fix for that03:13
+perlDreameractually, WebGUI is smart enough to know that 7:00pm CST is 5:00pm PST, when everyone in the US stops working.  So it steps outside for a quick break.03:17
@rizenthat's why it is that time03:17
@rizenmethinks i need to call a locksmith or security company and see what they have for products03:23
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jmarsden|workrizen: Read around on the web first... places like http://www.sdcsecurity.com/ may help?03:45
+perlDreamerrizen: have you been to the mailbox lately?03:50
@rizennot this week03:50
@rizenwill be going tomorrow or friday at the latest03:50
+perlDreamerit's probably worth your time to stop by there03:50
@rizenif i received a package i would have gotten an email about it03:51
+perlDreamerhint hint wink wink nudge nudge you know you know03:51
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CIA-46WebGUI: patspam * r9183 /branch/survey-rfe/www/extras/wobject/Survey/editsurvey/ (answer.js question.html section.js question.js): Deleted unused js files05:20
CIA-46WebGUI: patspam * r9184 /branch/survey-rfe/www/extras/wobject/Survey/editsurvey/object.js: 05:20
CIA-46WebGUI: Removed SimpleEditor title, improved handling of editor window when it05:20
CIA-46WebGUI: is bigger than viewable screen05:20
daviddelikatso what version of WebGUI is running on www.webgui.org?05:57
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elninousually the latest and greatest.06:57
elninobut don't take my word.06:57
jmarsdenelnino: Sadly, running HEAD http://www.webgui.org doesn't tell us, they have Apache running with less than ServerTokens Full, it seems.07:06
elninoah!!  but you gave me an idea... looking at the source, <meta name="generator" content="WebGUI 7.6.7" />07:07
elninoso my answer is 7.6.707:07
elninobut it was daviddelidat that asked, but apparently he signed off. 07:08
jmarsdenYes.  Well, we learned something, even if he didn't ;)07:09
elninoyep! =)07:09
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elninowould there be anyreason to ave a template have a template child?07:32
CIA-46WebGUI: patspam * r9185 /branch/survey-rfe/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)08:50
CIA-46WebGUI: Combined the folllowing RFE packages into a single Survey folder08:50
CIA-46WebGUI: package:08:50
CIA-46WebGUI: rfe-920208:50
CIA-46WebGUI: * Default Answer Edit08:50
CIA-46WebGUI: * Default Survey Edit08:50
CIA-46WebGUI: * Default Answer Edit08:50
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+BartJolmmm releases of WebGUI are shown quite randomly on this dutch site18:36
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+perlDreamer35 people, isn't that some kind of a record?18:41
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SynQI'd rather do a quality record18:42
+perlDreamerwell, I'll have to leave then18:42
SynQno you don't18:42
SynQsocial quality18:42
SynQso all people just sitting here saying nothing should go ;)18:42
@bopbopperldreamer: I figured out that the 100th day of school isn't until February, so that explains the postcard vacuum18:43
+perlDreamerphew :)18:44
@bopbopI know18:44
+BartJolpostcard vacuum?18:45
@bopbopdidn't want you to lose any more sleep:)18:45
@bopbopbartjol: pd and others sent some postcards to my son for a school project, but it was a long time ago18:45
@bopboppd had asked about it a few times18:45
+BartJolSynQ: was that meant for me?18:45
SynQbart: who fit's the shoe puts it on18:46
+BartJolbut as a shoemaker I rather stay with my least18:46
SynQkristy: our card is still coming :)18:47
@bopbopthank you SynQ!18:47
SynQpardon the y18:47
+BartJolI'm no failurehair SynQ18:48
+perlDreamerfailure hair?18:48
+perlDreameris that a Dutch phrase?18:49
+BartJolyeah faalhaas18:49
+perlDreamerI like it!18:49
+BartJolwell it actually shoulde be hare18:49
+BartJollike a bunny like animal, but then different18:50
+perlDreamerfailure hair is much funnier in English18:50
@bopbopI pictured a balding Bart18:50
+perlDreamerI see some guy with a really bad toupe'18:50
+perlDreameror the combover with 3 strands of hair18:50
+BartJolor tavisto's metro style18:50
+perlDreameror with a can of that spray paint stuff18:50
+perlDreamertavisto has an aura about him18:51
SynQit's failurehare then18:51
SynQthe hare that fails18:51
@bopbopas in, the turtle and hare?... is that the reference18:51
SynQI have to go for dinner18:52
SynQbe back later18:52
+BartJolmmm maybe we should organise a Dutchism presentation at the WUC18:53
+BartJolany fans?18:55
+perlDreamerI'd come18:56
+BartJolmore an after session thing18:56
+BartJolshouldn't be a problem just record everything Martin says in englisg18:56
+BartJolhe's a natural18:57
+perlDreamerso, if there's failure hair, what does that make MrHairgrease?18:57
+BartJollike cows eat grass, but then hair istead of grass18:58
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elninoHi. Trying to figure out the photo gallary...  It seems that the way it is setup, you have gallery with multiple albums.  well, we're only going to have one album, and have it display in the thumbnail view on the page..Similar to amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Little-People-Christmas-Story-Nativity/dp/B000067R86/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=toys-and-games&qid=1231257300&sr=8-1 Is there a cool way to do this?22:27
elninohmm. It looks like in the asset manager, I can cut the album out from underneath the gallary and paste it independantly on to a page (severed from the gallary), but when viewing the page, it displays NOTHING.so something is spitting out bad html... =(22:32
@preactionelnino: you shouldnt be doing that22:33
elninoI put it back.. 22:33
elninohow do I just get the album?22:34
@preactionelnino: check the Display tab of the Gallery edit screen, you can display just one album right away22:34
elninoright, but the customer has to click on the album (and leave our product page) to get to what I would like to mimick on amazon.22:34
elninomaybe I should do it the old fashion way with the CS asset....22:35
@preactionelnino: did you check the display tab yet? the part that says Display Mode. choose the option that says Single Album22:35
elninoYes ((I had already set the gallary to show one album.)  - maybe it's a bug in 7.5.2422:36
@preactiondid you select which album it should display?22:37
elninowell, I tried, but the [select] never became a link for me to click on to select it. - but let me try "typing it"  =)22:40
@preactionpretty sure you can't type it22:41
elninooh.. I see...  hold on.22:42
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elninook... now is there a way for the album to default to thumbview (like amazon?)22:46
elninowhen I edit the album, I just get title, description, and choose the thumbnail to represent the album. I don't see a "properties tab type" page.22:47
elninoand nothing obvious under the gallery's settings.22:47
@preactionno, there isn't a way to do that yet22:47
elninook. At least I didn't miss it somewhere...22:48
elninook,... so when in thumbnail mode, I get the "enlarged" version both from hovering and clicking - which template would be used to modify that behavior?22:50
@preactionthe thumbnails template22:51
@preactionDefault Album View Thumbnails i think22:51
elninoand by the way, when in "single album" mode the admin's controls only link to the album, the only way to get to the gallery settings it to go back intot he asset manager.  Has that been reported/fixed? This 7.5.24 seems to be one of the eariler versions of this asset....22:52
@preactioni'm not sure that's a bug really22:52
elninoI'm viewing the page that the gallary is on, so the edit button should edit the gallery, there is already a separate link to edit the album.22:54
elninoI supose it's consistant with the rest of the buttons and the icon used, but if the page contains the gallery which contains the album, I would think that the admincontrols would be for the gallery22:56
elninowhen viwing the apge.22:56
elninooh geez. when viewing the page. 22:57
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+perlDreamerLisett1, about your question yesterday.  The definition subroutine is a class method, and it returns a data structure.23:09
+perlDreamerYou can find examples of how to use it inside Asset.pm23:09
+perlDreamerjust look for ->definition23:09
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--- Day changed Fri Jan 09 2009
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@] has joined #webgui00:00
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+perlDreamerMrHaargraas, long time no see00:04
+MrHairgreasehey Pd, you must be talking to my Swedish cousin00:05
+perlDreameractually, I was talking with BartJol00:06
+perlDreamerhe was teaching us some Dutch00:06
+MrHairgreaseah i see00:06
+perlDreamertoday's lesson was faalhaar00:06
+MrHairgreasefaalhaar or faalhaas00:07
+perlDreamerat first, he said it was failure hair00:07
+perlDreamerthen failure hare00:07
+perlDreamerno, faalhaas00:07
+MrHairgreasethe former would certainly translate as faalhaar00:07
+MrHairgreasethe latter indeed is the much more common word faalhaas00:08
+MrHairgreaseand with common i mean, used by academia00:09
+perlDreamerBartJol is academia.  Cool00:09
+MrHairgreaseand with academia i mean boozed out frat boys =)00:10
+MrHairgreasetalking of which...00:10
+perlDreamerwhere does the phrase come from?00:11
+MrHairgreasewhat phrase?00:11
+MrHairgreaseoh 00:11
+MrHairgreasei dunno00:11
+MrHairgreasemaybe it's on wikipedia00:12
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+perlDreamerperhaps, but I would have problems reading the dutch article on it00:12
+MrHairgreasewikipedia lists it under military slang00:12
+MrHairgreasethe word refers to a person who is sucking bad00:13
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+MrHairgreasein the sense of failing so to say00:13
+MrHairgreaseso you can call someone a faler (=failer)00:13
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+perlDreamerin english, it sounds like "fall haws" or "fale hase"?00:14
+MrHairgreasebut faalhaas has a better ring to it00:14
+MrHairgreaseboth aa's are long sounds00:14
+MrHairgreasefallhaws would be the most correct of the two, but it's still wrong =)00:15
+MrHairgreaseyou've been in germany right?00:16
+MrHairgreaseknow the river Aare?00:16
+MrHairgreasethe aa's a pronounced the same00:16
+perlDreamerI'll have Kathy coach me on it00:16
+perlDreamerdone anything in the submicron scale lately?00:16
+MrHairgreasei work two days a week for mapper lithogrphy00:17
+MrHairgreasedoing cleanroom stuff00:17
+perlDreamervery cool00:18
+perlDreamermaskless semiconductors00:19
+MrHairgreasemaskless lithography00:19
+perlDreamerI worked with people who made masks by hand.00:19
SynQif it refairs to the military00:19
+perlDreamerbut they were kind of older00:19
SynQit has to do with sand hare00:19
SynQwhich is a term for 'soldier'00:19
+perlDreamerlate 40's/early 50's of age00:19
+MrHairgreasewhat happened? They run out of hands to make masks from?00:20
SynQa 'sandhare' is a soldier who digs itself into a shootingpit (schuttersputje)00:20
+perlDreamerno, they came out with this computer thingy that would do it for you00:20
+perlDreamerA Calma Station00:20
SynQand therefore resebles a hare00:20
SynQand a failhare is a sandhare that has failed to do it right00:20
SynQand thus gets shot00:20
SynQI presume00:21
+perlDreamerSynQ, then also called a dead hare?00:21
+MrHairgreasegood thing, i guess no the maskfabs are a lot less bloody =)00:21
SynQperlDreamer: probably yes00:22
+MrHairgreaseif procolix fails you can alwys become an etymologist koen!00:22
SynQprocolix will never fail00:23
+MrHairgreasei certainly hope so00:23
SynQsince that is as unlikely as JT admitting being wrong on using perl instead of php00:23
+MrHairgreaseif it isn't my favorite tavis!00:24
SynQtavis: do you have a cheerleader permit?00:24
+MrHairgreaseI now he has a tutu00:24
+MrHairgreasetavisto: nice pbwg interview btw00:25
+MrHairgreaseand a good thing the allegations aren't false =)00:25
@tavistohey SynQ, if you get me a hoodie then I'll wear it around screaming Procolix too00:26
+MrHairgreaseprocolix has to many syllables to be shoutable00:26
SynQtavis: what if I get you a bandana?00:26
@rizeni was wrong to use Perl00:27
@rizenPHP rules00:27
@rizenespecially PHP400:27
+MrHairgreaseit sure does00:27
@rizenit's my favorite00:27
* MrHairgrease cues webphooey00:27
* rizen runs to boil himself in oil to get the bad PHP germs off him00:27
@tavistoSynQ I dunno about bandanas... people who wear em are either in a gang or are pirates.. I'm neither00:28
SynQtop heads then00:29
SynQolive oil?00:29
+MrHairgreasethose are usually undertaers00:29
+MrHairgreaseolive oil might be just right =)00:29
@rizeni have a picture of tavisto wearing a bandana00:30
SynQso he is in a gang?00:30
+MrHairgreasea prirate gang00:30
@rizeni think it's a metrosexual gang00:30
SynQThe Gang Behing WebGUI00:30
+MrHairgreaserizen: it must be00:30
+MrHairgreaseotherwise the allegations would be false, which they aren't00:31
@rizeni still want to see BartJol's cartoon about Metrosexual Man00:31
+MrHairgreaseyou never seen it?00:31
@rizenstarring tavisto00:31
SynQrizen: it's probably somewhere on www.bartjol.nl00:31
@rizenSarah told me about it00:31
+MrHairgreasemaybe i have it somewhere in my mail00:31
+MrHairgreasehang on00:32
SynQJT: can you finish WRE 1.0 64bit tomorrow?00:32
SynQwe need it :P00:32
@rizensorry no00:33
@rizeni'm working on specs for 7.700:33
@rizenthen i can work on WRE 1.0 again00:33
SynQtoo bad then00:33
@rizensorry man00:33
@rizenit will be in your hands sometime in february00:33
@rizenmight be january but i doubt it00:34
SynQIt would be a nice present for my babies website ;)00:35
+perlDreamerHas the baby come out, then?00:35
SynQnot yeat00:35
+perlDreamerYou know, Muhammad Ali was born on January 17th00:36
+perlDreamerthat would be a good day to be born00:36
+perlDreamercan she hold it for 8 more days?00:37
SynQI want it to be born the 21st00:37
SynQ21 - 1 - 200900:37
SynQ211 200 900:37
@tavistohah, that's right... my character in Rizen's game.. Merc, I'm a badarse in that00:38
@tavistoand I am wearing a bandana00:38
@tavistoand camo.00:38
@rizenwe all know that Koen is the real badass in that game00:38
SynQthat is a good thought to end the day with00:40
SynQI'm going to sleep00:40
+MrHairgreasesoory, can't find the file00:42
+MrHairgreasei'll ask bart tomorrow00:42
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+perlDreamerrizen, we had 40 people in here today00:51
@rizenthe numbers have been up00:51
@rizeni was blown away when i saw 35 yesterday00:52
@rizencuz the highest i remember was 3000:52
@rizen40 today00:52
@rizen1 billion tomorrow00:52
@rizenthen again, i'm easy to surprise, cuz i don't often look at the user count00:53
@tavistoyeah it's really jumped in the last 2 months or so00:53
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@preactionanyone here heard of Selenium?01:26
+perlDreamerI've been wanting to play with that for a while, but am lacking in tuits01:27
@preactionlong story short: uses web browser engine to perform automated testing of website from the frontend01:27
@preactionhttp://perlmonks.org/?node_id=720018 <- here's one01:28
@preactionhm... doesn't seem like much of a tutorial really01:29
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+perlDreamerI think we could use Selenium for automation, as well as testing01:37
+perlDreamerFF already lets you record sequences of tasks to do over and over again01:38
+perlDreamerSelenium is really just a way to do that with flow control01:38
+perlDreamerplus, it works on lots of browsers01:38
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patspamperlmonkey2: ping04:52
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CIA-46WebGUI: patspam * r9186 /branch/survey-rfe/www/extras/wobject/Survey/administersurvey.js: Gracefully handle Survey question with no answers05:34
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@perlmonkey2patspam: pong06:03
patspamjust had a request from someone building a large survey for the ability to preview what sections will look like06:05
patspambecause when the survey is large it's a pain to click your way through to the point you want to look at06:05
patspami was thinking of adding a "preview" link in the Edit Survey dialog that simulates what a Section or Question will look like06:05
patspamwhat do you think?06:06
patspamalternatively, a "take survey from this point" link that created a response to make survey think you were up to that point would work too06:06
CIA-46WebGUI: patspam * r9187 /branch/survey-rfe/www/extras/wobject/Survey/administersurvey.js: 06:07
CIA-46WebGUI: Handle Survey qs without answers even more gracefully (e.g. by not06:07
CIA-46WebGUI: breaking)06:07
@perlmonkey2patspam: hmm, the preview link seems the better solution, yet obviously more difficult.06:42
@perlmonkey2If the preview was just showing a single page, and you gave it which question you wanted to start from in that section, it should be fairly easy and straightforward.06:43
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CIA-46WebGUI: patspam * r9188 /branch/survey-rfe/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Added "Preview" button for survey builders09:21
CIA-46WebGUI: patspam * r9189 /branch/survey-rfe/www/extras/wobject/Survey/ (editsurvey.js editsurvey/object.js): Refactored editsurvey js09:21
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CIA-46WebGUI: graham * r9190 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: Syndicated Content corrupts wide characters12:52
CIA-46WebGUI: graham * r9191 /WebGUI/t/Asset/File/GalleryFile/Photo/comment.t: fixing photo comment test12:52
CIA-46WebGUI: graham * r9192 /WebGUI/www/uploads/ (628 files in 302 dirs): convert to new storage format12:52
CIA-46WebGUI: graham * r9193 /WebGUI/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.6.8 release12:52
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CIA-46WebGUI: jt * r9194 /releases/WebGUI_7.6.8-beta: Release 7.6.8-beta13:55
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CIA-46WebGUI: graham * r9195 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): preparing for 7.6.9 dev14:24
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juani have some sites in WG 7.4.40, can i upgrade them directly to 7.5.38?15:39
+MrHairgreasehave you read gotch.txt?15:43
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+perlDreamergood morning, folks18:11
+perlDreameryou were a busy guy last night, Haarg18:13
bernd_Morning everyone :-)18:13
@Haargi have a cold and wasn't sleeping well18:13
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@Haargkind of odd with that syndicated content wide char bug18:16
+perlDreamerI know18:16
+perlDreamerIf I'd had spectre running, I suspect that I would never have seen it18:16
+perlDreamersince it would have fetched new content right away18:16
@Haargi knew there was a problem with wide characters and had assumed the bug was about that without even reading it18:17
@Haargbut it turned out to be a separate issue18:17
+perlDreamerI should read the patch and learn18:17
+perlDreamerone thing that isn't in the changelog that really should have been18:17
+perlDreamerI went through all 247 templates for i18n18:17
+perlDreamerI don't have a way of verifying, but I would guess that were over 99% i18n now18:18
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+perlDreamerand, with discussion from bernd_ and preaction, we have a way for making i18n phrases more grammatically correct in other languages18:18
+perlDreamerbut it is yet to be implemented18:18
@Haargat this point i'm assuming the wide character thing in your bug report is an XML::TreePP bug18:20
@Haargbut i'm not certain18:20
+perlDreamersince it didn't exist in 7.5, I think that's a good assumption18:21
+perlDreamerunless it's coming in during the caching18:21
@Haargi doubt it18:21
@Haarghad another fun issue with the 7.6 synd content asset18:22
@Haargwhere with the way it was improperly decoding the wide chars18:22
@Haargit caused one of the regexes to run forever18:23
@Haargbut only on some machines18:23
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@Haargit doesn't run forever on os x as far as i can tell18:23
@Haargbut does on rhel18:23
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@perlmonkey2Haarg: uhg, I'll never understand how arabic can work with utf8::downgrade.  I mean really?  Either Perl is magically picking the arabic encoding for 8 bit chars, or somehow you can convert multi-byte chars into 8 bit encodings that display just fine.  Encodings are the work of the devil!18:26
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@Haargthe important thing to remember is that it isn't properly encoded to begin with18:27
@perlmonkey2Haarg: heh, that helps but I think I won't get it until it is flowcharted.18:32
deafferretperlmonkey2: Looks pretty simple to me  http://tinyurl.com/axb3h7  :)18:33
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+bartjolthe horror, the horror!18:58
+bartjolperlDreamer: mmm, got some work to do indeed!18:59
+perlDreamerHaarg, red hat's, and by extension fedora's, perl is substandard19:05
+perlDreamerIf I wasn't such a red hat bigot, I'd jump on the ubuntu band wagon19:05
@Haargthat's not it though19:05
+perlDreamerbut I stubbornly hold onto the thought that they'll fix it somehow19:05
@Haargit works on os x using the system perl, my 5.10 build, and the wre19:05
@Haargit breaks on rhel using system perl or the wre19:06
+perlDreamerI see19:06
+perlDreamerthat's a postable bug to RH's bugzilla then19:06
@Haargit's very odd19:06
+perlDreamerbartjol, as far as I can see, there are only a few big batches of missing i18n in WebGUI yet.19:11
+perlDreamerand most of it is in the javascript19:11
+perlDreamerexcluding, or course, upcoming development19:12
+bartjolyeah, I was actually relieved after all the monster under the bed stories from you19:12
+perlDreamernot as much as you thought?19:12
CIA-46WebGUI: translation * r9196 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (11 files): Update from translation server19:12
+bartjolno, only 1.9 percent19:13
+bartjolwhich is quite some work but not a tremendous amount19:13
+perlDreamergood, and it all should have good context19:13
+perlDreamerif not, you can jump on my toes at the WUC19:13
+bartjolafter my remarks I have seen improvements19:13
SDuensinHey gang.19:14
+bartjolonly if I cancarry JT on the same time, and I Can't (or maybe can, but it will ruin my back) do that19:14
+bartjolSDuensin: my big facebook friend ;)19:15
SDuensinIt's very boring here.  Backing up drives.19:15
+bartjoloh, I just finished some translations and upgrading my site. now I head off to drink beer and play games (I know, it's getting predictable)19:16
+bartjolso nice weekend everybody19:17
SDuensinBeer & Games?  Sounds great to me!19:17
+perlDreamerI still need to write that wiki article about setting up the translation server locally19:17
SDuensinEnjoy, Facebook buddy!19:17
+bartjolit is, Oh and to come up with a subject for my WUC-presentation19:17
+perlDreamerOn the variability and form of Bart Jol's hair.  The long and the short of it.19:18
+bartjolperlDreamer: if you have time, I wanna do that, so you can use me as a test sunject19:18
+perlDreamernext week perhaps?19:18
+bartjolshould be possible somewhere19:19
+bartjolbut I also wanna backport i18n changes in beta to stable19:19
+perlDreamerthat is going to be a challenge19:19
+bartjollets talk about that later19:19
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bernd_SDuensin, you mentioned that you are running V-servers.20:04
bernd_What is your preferred virtualization solution?20:04
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SDuensinHey bernd_ - I use VMware Server.20:24
bernd_And are you pleased with it?20:24
bernd_What about virtualbox?20:25
bernd_Does it provide the same functionality?20:25
SDuensinNot really.  VMware Server has a nice web UI for managing your virtual machines.20:25
SDuensinVMware Server is free, too.20:25
bernd_So basically, the native gui control application available via the web?20:26
SDuensinServer has no GUI.  It's all in a browser.20:27
SDuensinIf you're doing virtual servers, it's great.  If you virtualize any clients, the video performance is pretty bad.20:27
bernd_Oh, so it is a web console?20:28
bernd_The screen content being made available in your browser?20:29
SDuensinYea.  There is a plugin for the browser to let you access the VM's consoles, or you can VNC to them.20:29
bernd_I think virtualbox has an integrated RDP server for that purpose.20:29
bernd_Just not the OSE version.20:29
bernd_Would that be comparable?20:29
SDuensinVery similar, yea.20:29
bernd_I see.20:29
SDuensinVirtualBox is nice, but I like the management tools VMware provides since I run a crapload of VMs.20:30
bernd_Ever tried paravirtualization like Xen?20:30
bernd_I see.20:30
SDuensinPlayed with Xen a bit.  I need more OS support than it provides.  I still have a DOS VM!20:30
bernd_But is it worth the effort regarding performance?20:30
bernd_I understand that you need to adapt the guest.20:30
SDuensinIf you're doing all Linux, probably.  Then again, I'm really pleased with my VMware performance.  One of my VMs does video streaming and transcoding!20:31
jmarsden|workbernd_: I think vmware vs virtualbox is more about who will use the VMs ... vmware "appliances" can be given to the gneral public of Windows users for demos etc; virtualbox is less common for that20:32
+perlDreamerit's kind of like OGG vs MP320:33
bernd_But virtualbox provides image compatibility afaik.20:33
bernd_Or is that just for import?20:33
SDuensinjmarsden|work - It all boiled down to the management for me.  I've had 9 VMs going at once on my server.  Very nice to be able to point-and-click between them and get overviews of the resources each is using.20:33
jmarsden|workbernd_: I have not tried converting images between the two... that's an interesting thing, I'll have to try it :)20:34
bernd_I think I read that virtualbox supports vmdk.20:34
bernd_That means you should at least be able to boot vmware images.20:35
bernd_Not sure whether it works with vmdk internally.20:35
SDuensinI got a buddy who swears by VirtualBox.  I just never really got into it that much.20:37
jmarsden|workbernd_: default disk image files for virtualbox are .vdi files, at least on my installation...20:38
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bkqmackeyanyone out there familiar with the YUI menu?21:06
+perlDreamerwith more details, perhaps :)21:06
bkqmackeyI just upgraded to 7.5.37, and my YUI menu is not only calling my CSS it's using the Skin that YUI includes, but I can't see where it's being called from?21:07
bkqmackeyand it's overriding my CSS and screwing with my text21:07
bkqmackeyit's not called in my head block for the menu where the normal CSS is?21:08
bkqmackey(I discovered this using WebDeveloper)21:08
+perlDreamersome WebGUI script tags are output inline, due to the chunked nature of how it makes output21:09
bkqmackeyany idea how to fix/stop it?21:11
bkqmackeyI'm not sure exactly what you meant...21:11
+perlDreamerwell, 1) you need to make sure that the YUI css calls are in the source of the page21:12
+perlDreamerand then you need to make sure that the CSS is scoped correctly21:12
+perlDreamerif you're leaking a div tag, or they're in the wrong order, that could be the problem21:13
+perlDreamerand, there was a Navigation problem that was fixed in 7.6.8 and 7.5.3821:13
bkqmackeywell the source code shows my css, then under the JS there's a link href to the SAM skin, but I don't see it when I go to edit the html/head block of the nav21:15
bkqmackeythat's where I guess I'm confused.21:16
+perlDreamerWebGUI 7.5?21:17
bkqmackeyon Windows21:17
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+perlDreamerthe link to skins/sam/menu.css comes from the WebGUI core code21:18
+perlDreamerinside Asset/Wobject/Navigation.pm21:18
bkqmackeyHmm.  would it be a problem that there's no Navigation.pm in the Wobject folder?21:20
bkqmackeywait, found it.21:21
bkqmackeyI was in the wrong place, sorry.21:21
bkqmackeyDo you think I should delete that line then?21:22
bkqmackeyhmm, that did not seem to do anything.21:28
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+perlDreamerif you delete Navigation.pm, WebGUI won't make navigations anymore21:41
+perlDreamerit would be better to fix the CSS issue21:42
bkqmackeyno, I'm sorry, I just tried deleting the line that called that CSS21:44
bkqmackeyI actually ended up renaming the CSS so it couldn't find it, which worked, but right now not sure how that'll impact me in the future.21:44
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carograyhi all - where is the list of contributions that used to be? We have tried to put the EmailEncode macro into our system, Graham enabled it back in December but it still isn't working. I don't know how it's supposed to work can someone point me to it? I can't find reference to it in either PB online support, WG support or the wikis22:10
carograyhah! I didn't even look there - thought it was the shop where you could buy all the purple octopus kit! sheesh! thanks22:14
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CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r9197 /tools/translationserver.cgi: 08:25
CIA-46WebGUI: Prevent namespace files from being created, unless they already exist in the English08:25
CIA-46WebGUI: translation.08:25
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daviddelikatanybody know what happened to WSClient.pm?21:05
daviddelikatthere is no wsclient module in the svn archive yet it is available in the content menu21:20
jmarsdenThere is lib/WebGUI/Help/Asset_WSClient.pm -- is that what you are looking for?  Or ./lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_WSClient.pm ?21:27
daviddelikatthat would be helpfu, if I had a copy of the code module it descibes :)21:49
daviddelikatI actually have a copy of the module, but I'm wondering if the module is still part of the system.  these things don't usually disapear from source control without some cause...21:51
daviddelikatperhaps the function has been retired?21:52
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jmarsdendaviddelikat: I found the svn revision where it was removed, r8769.  The log entry was:01:28
jmarsdenr8769 | graham | 2008-12-02 16:32:58 -0800 (Tue, 02 Dec 2008) | 1 line01:29
jmarsdenremoving WSClient01:29
jmarsdenUnfortunately the svn log comment does not say *why* it was removed :)01:29
daviddelikatjmarsden: thanks, I also found the entry...01:40
jmarsdenSounds like time to ask on the dev forum/list?  Or ask graham, if you know who graham is?01:41
daviddelikathe's up at the top of the list there, but right now I'm working on other stuff, so I'm putting it off till later...01:45
daviddelikatthanks again for your research01:45
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Radix__graham is Haarg03:49
Radix__jmarsden & daviddelikat03:49
jmarsdenRadix__: Thanks, that's what david_delikat said earlier... "he's up at the top of the list.."03:52
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CIA-46WebGUI: translation * r9198 /translations/Portuguese/ (18 files in 2 dirs): Update from translation server20:53
CIA-46WebGUI: translation * r9199 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (4 files): Update from translation server21:22
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CIA-46WebGUI: translation * r9200 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (6 files): Update from translation server23:39
--- Day changed Mon Jan 12 2009
+BartJol<is_complete dutch_translation>=100:34
CIA-46WebGUI: translation * r9201 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (Asset_Calendar.pm Asset_MatrixListing.pm Asset_Matrix.pm): Update from translation server00:34
CIA-46WebGUI: translation * r9202 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Account_Contributions.pm: Update from translation server00:34
CIA-46WebGUI: translation * r9203 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Account.pm: Update from translation server00:34
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CIA-46WebGUI: translation * r9204 /translations/Danish/Danish/ (9 files): Update from translation server02:49
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r9205 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_MatrixListing.pm: fix i18n typo in MatrixListing.02:49
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CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r9206 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Gallery.pm: Clarify size vs density in the ImageGallery i18n.03:20
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r9207 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Gallery.pm: backporting AssetGallery i18n fix.03:20
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CIA-46WebGUI: frank * r9208 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Account/Contributions.pm: Fixed a bug where posts would error because they didn't point to the thread06:54
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+perlDreamerHola, SDuensin.  Is the shop still giving you fits?18:12
SDuensinI'm just going to have a zillion entries in the variants drop down.18:13
@Haargif we're putting #! lines on the utility scripts, shouldn't they be marked executable?18:27
@Haargshould probably adjust them to be runnable from any path as well18:29
@Haargbut i'll set them executable right now18:29
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r9209 /WebGUI/sbin/installClass.pl: Add license boiler plate to installClass.18:34
CIA-46WebGUI: graham * r9210 /WebGUI/ (17 files in 2 dirs): marked sbin scripts as executable18:34
+perlDreamerIn the wiki, how do I make an attachment show up in the wiki page?18:50
@preactiondrag the attachment from the upper box into the page18:51
+perlDreamerHm.  The instructions in the box say copy and paste.  Does that work too, and does it mean browser level copy and paste?18:53
+perlDreamerclick and drag worked fine, btw.  Thanks, preaction.18:53
danny_mkHas anyone seen a better tutorial than the one at the Perl::POE site?19:11
+perlDreamersorry, danny_mk.  Never done any POE hacking.19:13
+perlDreamerYou could check the spectre code, though.  It's POE based19:13
danny_mksure, that would be a great tutorial :-P19:13
+perlDreamerwell, it's practical... ;)19:13
@preactioni learned a lot from the poe.perl.org site19:16
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jmarsden|workHaarg: Do you have a minute to talk about the idea of "should probably adjust them to be runnable from any path as well" for the scripts?  That would be great for packagers; in general, if they could all call one function to find out where webguiRoot is, or some centralized solution like that, this would work for for WRE, source, and packaged installs.  But there's a "catch-22" - where do you put the "central place to set w19:50
jmarsden|workebguiRoot" code? /usr/local/lib/site_perl/ maybe??19:50
@Haargnot at the moment, but i'll be back in a little bit19:53
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@bopbopperlDreamer: is your presentation from wuc 08 on the WUC site?20:19
@bopbopto common programming mistakes one20:19
@bopbopto- the20:19
+perlDreamerI mailed it to Jamie last Thursday, right before he fired me for being 7 months late20:19
+perlDreamerWould you like a copy?20:19
@bopbopyes please :)20:19
+MrHairgreaseperlDreamer: I don't need a copy copy, but another beer would be appreciated =)20:21
SDuensinWait!  What?  Huh?  Where have I been?  There's beer?!20:21
+perlDreamerI'll see what I can do, MrHairgrease.  Any preferences?20:21
+MrHairgreaseSDuensin: that's what happens if you don't attend the wuc20:22
+MrHairgreasepd: no20:22
* SDuensin was busy destroying a database.20:22
@preactionbetter than beer, imho20:22
+perlDreamerSDuensin, at the WUC last year, I ran a game show20:22
@preactionthey should all be destroyed!20:22
+perlDreamerI showed some core code, and asked the audience to figure out the bugs in them20:23
+MrHairgreasepreaction, global destruction is always nicer with beer20:23
* SDuensin is auto generating a ton of variants based on a few base variants already in the database.20:23
+perlDreamerI gave out candy, but had a special prize for MrHairgrease, since he codes better with a beer in him20:23
+MrHairgreasebut only upto a certain treshold20:23
+perlDreamer1 beer lubricates the gears20:24
+MrHairgreaseafter that performance degrades severely20:24
+MrHairgreasebut the corny jokes ratio keeps increasing 20:24
+MrHairgreaseis that presentation on webgui.tv already btw?20:25
@bopbopgot it- thanks perldreamer20:25
+perlDreamerMrHairgrease, I hear it's coming20:25
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SDuensinOh hell.  I've forgotten about a little thing we like to call "recursion".20:27
+perlDreamerNeed some firebug help20:29
+perlDreamerit's keeping track of old version of my page as I load it20:29
+perlDreamerand since the page has inlined scripts, I can't tell if the new code is working or not20:29
+perlDreamerany ideas on how to clear out the old versions, or to stop its caching?20:30
@preactionperlDreamer: i've found i either have to close firebug or reload the page twice20:30
* perlDreamer has a strong, love hate relationship with Firebug20:31
+perlDreamerI have a similar one with js, but it is a hate/mainly dislike relationship.20:34
SDuensinSorry.  :-)20:35
+perlDreameryou hate not being able to query it like SQL, but the data is in there20:35
SDuensinYea, and it's hard as hell to read and manage.  I'm coping.  Just not happy.  :-)20:36
SDuensinperlDreamer - FYI, this is what I was trying to avoid:   http://ut.jaegertech.net/products/rings/r9904-r9903?cat=ring&num=220:54
SDuensinLook at all those choices!20:54
+perlDreamerI've been learning JS.  Why not use it to break apart the choices, build separate form elements, and then override the save button to put them back together?20:55
SDuensinBecause that's a lot of work.  :-P20:55
+perlDreamerActually, I think "learning" is a bit of an oversimplification.20:55
+perlDreamerFlailing and screaming at it would be more accurate.20:56
SDuensinEvery time you talk about learning JS, it makes me want to learn Cappuccino again.  And I don't have time!  :-)20:57
@Haargjmarsden|work, regarding making them runnable from anywhere, i think having it based on the script's location is the best way to go20:59
@Haargif someone wanted to separate the perl code from the rest of the files they would have to modify the scripts, but that's not really a standard/supported way to install it20:59
jmarsden|workWell, that fails when the scripts need to be in /usr/share/webgui/sbin for FHS compliance... 20:59
jmarsden|workOr rather, in /usr/bin --- my bad.21:00
@Haargthe scripts are going to have to be modified for that no matter what we do really21:00
jmarsden|workWell, if there were just one place where webguiROot was defined, that would be one place to change; not once per script...21:01
@Haargthere's really no way to do that though with the way things currently are21:02
jmarsden|workWell, if you (thinking out loud) had each script use a package WebGUIConf and fall back to a path say /data/WebGUI/whatever for the root if it can't load that package... then you could drop the package into /usr/local/lib/site_perl and that would set webguiRoot consistently across all scripts... ?21:03
jmarsden|workIntuitively it feels wrong to have one constant (the location of webguiRoot) embedded in many scripts.21:04
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elninoquick question:  To have two installs of webgui on the same server, would involve a manual install, right? or is there a way to use wre?22:28
bernd_You can run many sites with the wre.22:30
bernd_Or do you want to have to completely independent installations?22:31
elninoI know, but we're using webgui as a framework for an internal application,22:31
elninoand it probably will along side a vanilla untouched wre that hosts our corporate website.22:31
elninoyes, two.  =)22:31
@Haargif you wanted to run multiple versions of webgui you could use the wre, but there would be a fair bit of manual configuration.  you'd need to run a separate modperl server for instance.22:32
bernd_And if you use two virtual appliances instead?22:32
bernd_Or one at least.22:33
elninothat is a possiblity.22:33
elninohmm. lets put it this way.. maybe I can get by with one install. I have a bunch of new assesthat I want to have in one webgui, but not the other.22:33
elninos/assesthat/assets that/22:33
bernd_I think that can be configured on a per site basis.22:33
@Haargyou can configure that in the config file for each site22:33
bernd_I was first :-)22:34
elninoI *Hope* I don't have to modify any of the base code to support these new assets.22:34
elninoBut I have a feeling I will, because the result will be a webgui install that only has an asset tree and "edit properties" screens available, there is no "website" or "turn admin off" mode. 22:35
elninos/asset tree/asset manager/22:35
bernd_Why disable it if you could just hide it?22:36
elninohide it via the viewable permissions?22:37
elninoor config file?22:37
bernd_Just switch to admin mode after login, somehow, and do not provide a link for switching?22:38
elninook.. I can probably do that with a minor change to the autho mod.22:40
elninoterrible typing!! sorry.22:40
bernd_You could probably also configure mod_proxy to append something like ?func=edit to every url.22:41
bernd_Since we are talking about dirty hacks, you could also embed a macro in the first page that does the job.22:42
elninohmmm. cleaver.22:42
bernd_That way you would not have to change the core.22:42
elninovery clever.  ok you're convincing.22:42
bernd_Not often :-)22:42
elninothese creative ideas are very timely.22:43
elninowe were considering reinventing the wheel using java22:43
bernd_For what you just described?22:44
elninowell, and for all the assets we have to create that I didn't mention.22:45
elninomy issues with using webgui was, multi installs (which you addresses) disabling the website (which you addressed) and creating dynamic edit pages (instead of hardcoding properties like webgui currently does), but I think22:46
elninoI worked that out in my mind. I hope.22:46
bernd_Good luck!22:47
elninoand I really don't want to modify the base code, but I think I convinced the hardware engineerss (my "customers") that webgui's methods are best (without mentioning webgui because they have no idea what it is.) 22:47
elninoSo I think I'm around that issue too.22:47
elninothanks. i just don't want to start one direction and get stuck and go back tojava.22:48
+perlDreamerDon't say that word, elnino.22:49
bernd_Better do not disappoint them then ;-)22:49
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elninoI'm sorry.. It was being considered because that thing only language my cowork knows.22:49
bernd_jmarsden, do you know the URL of your PPA by heart?22:51
bernd_Or jmarsden|work, maybe?22:51
jmarsden|workbernd_: for looking at it, or for a deb line in /etc/apt/sources.list?22:51
bernd_The latter.22:52
jmarsden|workdeb http://ppa.launchpad.net/jmarsden/ubuntu intrepid main22:52
elninoThe ?edit screen, is defined by each pm module for each asset, right? like www_edit or something...22:53
bernd_Bu I think I found it already.22:53
bernd_Is it "deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/jmarsden/ubuntu intrepid main"?22:53
bernd_Looks the same to me?22:53
jmarsden|workIsn't that what I just posted here?22:54
bernd_elnino, I would think so but I am not 100% certain.22:54
bernd_Is it defined in Asset.pm or Wobject.pm?22:54
bernd_In that case you should be safe.22:54
jmarsden|workbernd_: I use http://launchpad.net/~jmarsden/+archive to poke around by hand, but that won't work for deb lines.22:54
bernd_Seems to be a timing issue. I typed it before I saw your line.22:55
jmarsden|workbernd_: Ah, OK.22:55
elninobernd_ yes, it would be subclassed...   so this is good news for me. I'm pretty sure that is what I read in the developers book.22:55
bernd_Thanks for your help.22:56
bernd_I am going to test immediately.22:56
jmarsden|workCool, let me know how it goes :)22:56
+perlDreamerelnino, it is always www_edit, unless you are adding, in which case it is www_add22:57
bernd_perlDreamer, and the URL is always "?func=edit"?22:59
elninocool, because what I need to do there, is the "edit properties" screen is dynamically displayed based on data stored in a another custom asset's table.22:59
elninoand by all indications, I should be able to do that too.23:00
+perlDreamerbernd: always, for an asset's core properties23:00
+perlDreamerbut for things like collateral, or uploads, or whatever, there's no consistent pattern23:00
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bernd_Thanks, perlDreamer!23:03
elninoThank you perlDreamer and bernd_ I'm going to sleep on all this now, and make sure I have all the open-ended questions covered.23:04
elninoOh.. is there a setting to NOT have something version controlled?  I take it it would not be subclassed from asset, so what would it be subclassed from?  We need to have some version control and some not,  OR23:05
elninohave some automatically be committed while others are not23:06
elninoso I guess it would be like changing the system settings vs, changing properties of an asset.23:07
bernd_You could do that via separate workflows.23:08
bernd_Create one for auto-commit,23:08
bernd_and another one for manual approval.23:08
bernd_Would that work?23:08
elninothe work flow would need to know what class type the asset is.23:08
elninoso I suppose that would work, unless other changes to other assets get's into the same version tag.23:09
bernd_Isn't the asset passed along to the workflow?23:09
elninoyes, but if the version tag included changes to a "non versionable" asset and a "versionable" asset, what would I do? Or am I thinking too late in the process?23:10
bernd_Just make them run not in parallel.23:11
elninoI would have to check the asset class BEFORE putting it under a version tag. So if i'm in a version tag already, and I modified a non-versionable asset, it would need to create a new version tag and committ it immediately....  that should work, right?23:11
bernd_Process one asset per time.#23:11
bernd_Check the type and auto-commit if it is appropriate.23:12
bernd_Collect everything else in a version tag.23:12
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elninoI would "check the type and auto-commit" in what workflow?23:12
elninoor would that be the result if I change it to parallel?  I don't know much about workfows... Assets I can handle, but I really need to learn how to grasp workflows.23:14
bernd_Not sure. Would have to look it up.23:14
bernd_But I think you would have to write your own workflow activities.23:14
elninook. I'm thinking this is a totally custom workflow, as opposed to tweaking an existing one.23:15
elninoright. You said it first. =)23:15
bernd_But at least it is pluggable.23:15
elninoThank you plainblack!23:15
bernd_Good night, elnino :-)23:15
elninoright..!  I'll go now... 23:16
+perlDreameryay! javascript is working23:20
+perlDreamerbooo!  CSS is not23:20
bernd_jmarsden|work, I have unmet dependencies.23:20
jmarsden|workReally?  They are not in my PPA?  Which dependencies?23:21
bernd_Check these error messages: deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/jmarsden/ubuntu intrepid main23:21
bernd_No, wrong.23:21
bernd_These: http://webgui.pastebin.com/d35713f0823:21
bernd_Why does "apt-get install webgui" not pull in all the packages it needs?23:22
jmarsden|workIt does, for me.... did you do sudo apt-get update after adding that deb line ?23:22
bernd_Oh, damn! I know why...23:23
bernd_The JeOS version I have installed is hardy!23:23
bernd_Seems like I must do a release upgrade first.23:23
jmarsden|workAh... yes, that would explain it.  I've not even attempted backporting to Hardy.23:23
bernd_Haven't you tested with JeOS as well?23:24
jmarsden|workWith the one from the Ubuntu Server 8.10 CD, yes.23:24
bernd_I see. Mine was downloaded from the web page.23:24
bernd_I probably selected the last LTS release without knowing.23:24
jmarsden|workSounds like it.23:25
bernd_Seems like I will have to postpone testing until tomorrow :-(23:25
jmarsden|workOh well... at least you are nearly there!23:25
jmarsden|workDOwnloading the 8.10 server CD should only take an hour or so though... unless you have a very slow Internet connection?23:25
bernd_Sometimes it is fast.23:26
bernd_But not often.23:26
jmarsden|work:)  OK.23:26
bernd_But something else: would it not make sense to support hardy?23:26
jmarsden|workYes, long term it probably would, because it is LTS.23:26
bernd_I mean webgui is for server use, isn't it?23:27
bernd_Any plans to backport?23:27
jmarsden|workMaybe... I'd like to get it into Jaunty as a priority... Hardy has even fewer of the dependencies that webgui needs, so I think my PPA will explode with many lib*-*-perl packages for Hardy to work!23:28
bernd_Is it not allowed to pull them in via CPAN?23:29
bernd_I mean, as long as the webgui package takes care of it?23:29
jmarsden|workIt is allowed as it it will work, but it is not allowed (as far as I know) to do that in an official Ubuntu package.  Itwould make packaging on CD or DVD useless unles syou have a live Internet connection at install time,for example23:29
bernd_Yeah, you are right.23:30
jmarsden|workAnd Ernesto has done such a great job of getting all the lib*-*-perl stuff packaged for Debian, it seems sad not to take advantage of that :)23:30
bernd_Going to start the upgrade and to bed afterwards.23:31
bernd_Happy hacking!23:31
jmarsden|workOK, bye for now!23:31
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elninoThought I was in putty.  =)23:32
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+perlDreamerc_thomas, just install Template::Toolkit23:39
+perlDreamereither that, or add WebGUI::Asset::Template::TemplateToolkit.pm to preload.exclude in the sbin directory23:40
bernd_jmarsden|work, one more thing:23:40
bernd_Do you remember how to upgrade from LTS to non-LTS?23:40
bernd_do-release-upgrade tells me that there is no new version.23:40
jmarsden|workHmmm, something about a -d option?  Let me see if I can find out...23:41
bernd_--help does not say anything about it.23:41
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jmarsden|workThere is a -d option in the do-release-upgrade script in Intrepid... I don't have a Hardy one here to look at.23:43
jmarsden|workIt is in Python so you can less /usr/bin/do-release-upgrade to check ?23:43
bernd_But -d is devel.23:43
jmarsden|work-p maybe?? for proposed??23:44
bernd_Nope. But I found it.23:45
bernd_You have to change /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades.23:45
bernd_See this URL: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/IntrepidUpgrades23:45
bernd_Now it's working!23:45
bernd_Thanks nevertheless.23:45
jmarsden|workOK, glad you found it.23:46
jmarsden|workAh, yes, I remember doing that in the GUI on a Hardy desktop...23:46
bernd_Again, good night everyone!23:46
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+perlDreamerIn general, macros get processed _after_ the template is evaluated, right?23:55
+perlDreamerthere was a bug posted about the Snippet, and after going through the code I found it does it in the opposite order23:59
+perlDreamerwhen the snippet is processed as a template23:59
+perlDreamerI'll build a test and then switch it to way it should work.23:59
--- Day changed Tue Jan 13 2009
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@Haargwell, i got the syndicated content wide character issue figured out.  i'm just not sure of how to fix it.00:06
+perlDreamerDo you mean you have too many options to choose from, or that it's not possible to get it fixed?00:06
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@Haargproper fix is a change to XML::TreePP, but we probably need an alternate solution00:07
daviddelikatdid you see the email that I sent?00:07
@Haargyeah, i was writing up a response00:08
daviddelikatis cter?his occuring wrt anything other than the '&reg;' charag00:09
daviddelikati hate that...00:09
daviddelikatis this happening wrt anything besides the &reg character?00:10
@Haargany xml entity representing a wide character00:10
daviddelikatbut do we have instances of other characters?00:11
daviddelikati'm thinking that we could map the characters to the html element at the input module00:11
@Haargthe sc needs to be able to accept any rss feed though00:12
daviddelikati think that the latest version of the edit plugin (third party) might do something like this00:12
daviddelikatok so the SC needs to do the mapping also00:12
daviddelikator some solution....00:13
@Haargwell, there's not really any point to doing on the input side00:13
@Haargi'm still trying to think of a good solution00:13
@Haargbut the best i'm coming up with is monkeypatching XML::TreePP00:14
+perlDreamerhow about patching it ourself, and sending the author a patch with test?00:15
+perlDreamerand then waiting for the patch to be released?00:15
@Haargwell, that would be the idea00:15
@Haargpost a patch, and monkeypatch it until then00:15
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* danny_mk going home for the day00:22
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@Haargi'm just going to report the bug to the XML::TreePP author00:24
@Haargand it can be left at that00:25
+perlDreamerworks for me00:25
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+perlDreamerc_thomas, did that work for you?00:27
c_thomasit fix the problem with TemplateToolkit.pm00:28
c_thomasbut i still have the problem about get00:29
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c_thomasi created the preload.exclude file00:30
c_thomasi guess you can see this, I just installed this irc application and was just trying to figure out all the pictures00:32
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@Haargdaviddelikat, i'll post back on that bug, but you can consider the sc wide character issue resolved01:01
daviddelikatHaarg i figured as much01:09
@Haargalways annoying when the bug is in someone elses code01:09
@Haargharder to find and harder to get fixed.01:09
CIA-35WebGUI: colin * r9211 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 01:10
CIA-35WebGUI: Add a test for evaluating templates and macros in the right order01:10
CIA-35WebGUI: in the Snippet. Fix a bug with that.01:10
CIA-35WebGUI: colin * r9212 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Backporting macro/template eval order bug in the Snippet.01:11
CIA-35WebGUI: daviddelikat * r9213 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm): 01:11
CIA-35WebGUI: fixed bug 9428: ASSET::get now includes keywords when01:11
CIA-35WebGUI: called without a property name.01:11
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+perlDreamercan JS be used to remove CSS classes from an element?01:43
@Haargyui has a function for that01:51
+perlDreamerI'll RTM02:00
daviddelikatHaarg: should bug 9428 get backported?02:03
daviddelikatfor that matter should any of the fixes I've made get packported?02:03
@Haargpretty much all bug fixes should be backported02:04
daviddelikatgotta phone call02:04
@Haargaside from bugs that only affect 7.602:04
+perlDreamerremoveClass does not seem to be working in FF for inherited classes02:07
+perlDreamerlet me double check02:07
@Haargthat isn't going to work, no02:07
daviddelikatHaarg: what is going to be the easiest way for me to setup a 7.5 environment for this backporting?02:08
@Haargwell, you could move your 7.6 version to something like /data/WebGUI.trunk/02:08
+perlDreamerno, it doesn't work for inherited classes02:09
@Haargand check out 7.5 as /data/WebGUI_7.502:09
@Haargand use symlinks for /data/WebGUI02:09
+perlDreamerso here's the scoop02:09
+perlDreamerI have a span that contains a button that I YUI-fied02:10
+perlDreamerYUI makes the new button a span, which inherits the settings from its parent span, which messes up the button rendering02:10
daviddelikatalso, do I need to backport items that do not mention any software version?02:11
+perlDreameryes, almost all bugs get fixed in both main branches, beta and stable, which in this case are 7.6 and 7.502:12
daviddelikatwhat does the svn co command point to for the stable branch?02:15
* perlDreamer goes running02:16
patspamperlDreamer: the class isn't inherited02:16
patspamprobably the parent class causes your css rules to target the child element02:17
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daviddelikatI'm trying to start my new WebGUI 7.5 site and I'm getting an error about Matrix_listing table doesn't exist03:36
Lisettehi, how to do to get the content of a thingy?03:37
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+perlDreamerdaviddelikat, double check that /data/WebGUI points to your branch location, and that you've restarted Spectre and Apache.04:54
+perlDreamerpatspam: if you're curious, http://webgui.pastebin.com/d4f819d305:01
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patspamperlDreamer: it's the ".editItemRow span" css rule05:09
patspamYUI creates a new span around the button element in the dom when you call the Button constructor05:11
+perlDreamerbut I want _most_ of the spans in there to get that rule05:11
+perlDreamermaybe I should call them out explicitly...05:12
patspamthe css rule targets all span children of a .editItemRow classed element05:12
patspamjust first children perhaps?05:12
patspam.editItemRow > span05:12
+perlDreameryou can say that?05:12
patspamdon't think IE will like it though05:12
+perlDreamerI think I'll just move the buttons, or call the rows out manually05:12
+perlDreamerit also wreaks havok with the YUI Rich Editor05:13
* perlDreamer heads off to brush some teeth and to help the kids visit the Forest of Mirkwood05:13
patspamor how about adding .editItemRow span span { float: none; width: auto; }05:14
patspamthat will undo you style for any spans nested inside of spans affected by your first rule05:14
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wgGuest49Umm, anyone there?05:36
wgGuest49Guess not....05:37
+perlDreamerwgGuest49, it's just late, and we're tired and slow05:41
+perlDreamerdo you have a question?05:41
wgGuest49heh i understand that05:42
wgGuest49actually it's kind of a broad question.05:42
+perlDreamerout with it!05:42
wgGuest49Well I've been using html/css for years upon years. what sorta advantages does this have over the traditional ways? 05:43
wgGuest49I'm sorta new to this system only heard about it recently.05:43
+perlDreamerwgGuest49, it's kind of like the difference between subroutines and all inlined code.05:43
+perlDreamerwith CSS, you change it once, and it's fixed everywhere05:44
+perlDreamerwith manual, per element style, you'd better be pretty good with an editor and search/replace05:44
wgGuest49Yeah it does become a pain at times.05:44
+perlDreamernow, that's not too particular to WebGUI, except we always try to make styling the individual parts for WebGUI as easy for people as possible.05:45
wgGuest49Now I heard that after I present the site to my client that with this system they'll be able to update the site on their own easily and without having to call me is that true?05:46
+perlDreamerWebGUI has a steep learning curve, but once you've taught them the basics updating the site will be easy.05:47
+perlDreamerI have yet to find users who do not call to ask for help.05:47
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wgGuest49Does the system still have the ability to me to hardcode if needed?05:48
+perlDreamerWhat do you mean by hardcode?05:48
wgGuest49do the actual html/css coding myself05:48
+perlDreamerIn fact, you can mix dynamically generated content and static content05:49
wgGuest49like dreamweaver's design window? 05:49
+perlDreamerNever used dreamweaver.05:49
+perlDreamerThink of it more like this05:49
+perlDreamerWebGUI presents you with a page05:49
+perlDreameryou can drop dynamic and static elements on it05:50
wgGuest49Ah it's a split panel. top half shows the code bottom half lets you drag/drop etc...05:50
+perlDreamerIn that case, kind of.  WebGUI will let you drag and drop elements on the page.  But it won't show you the code level view of the page.05:50
+perlDreamerHave you tried a demo site yet?  It would go a long way to showing that.05:51
wgGuest49I'm going to give it a shot tomorrow as you said it is late heh.05:51
+perlDreameralso, I'd download a copy of the WebGUI Primer from the Bazaar area of webgui.org05:51
+perlDreamerit's a good overview of WebGUI05:52
wgGuest49now i did look at the versions and it seems it's mostly unix based. how often is the windows version updated?05:52
+perlDreamerWe have stopped supporting Windows directly due to general lack of interest.05:52
wgGuest49yeah the latest version was a few down the list.05:53
+perlDreamerThere have been several threads on the forums about how to use newer versions on Windows.05:53
wgGuest49linux emulation?05:53
+perlDreamer But in general it's easiest to use the VMWare image on Windows05:53
+perlDreamersee this thread: http://www.webgui.org/install/upgrade_help/windows-install/2#idFDBFevs0f_nk6P3qNlFyzQ05:54
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wgGuest15sorry bout that.05:55
+perlDreamerwgGuest15, you can also set a nickname for yourself, if you prefer05:55
+perlDreamerjust say /nick myNewNickname05:55
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+perlDreamerHi, John05:56
JohnHeya :)05:56
Johnheh it's already registered05:56
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Guest3283oh well. I'm bout to crash anyway. 05:57
Guest3283Thanks for answering my questions I'll give the demo a shot in the morning.05:57
+perlDreamerYou're welcome, feel free to come back and ask more!05:57
Guest3283I'm sure I will :P05:58
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+perlDreamerpatspam, you're a genius06:03
CIA-35WebGUI: colin * r9214 /tools/translationserver.cgi: 06:39
CIA-35WebGUI: Remove lots of extra whitespace.06:39
CIA-35WebGUI: Convert to use the YUI Rich Text Editor.06:39
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patspamperlmonkey2: ding ding07:04
@perlmonkey2patspam: hello07:14
patspamwhy hello07:14
patspamremember that survey bug i mentioned the other day where one of my surveys text fields exploded into 145mb of garbage data?07:15
@perlmonkey2still having problems?07:15
patspamhow's this for a smoking gun: In contrast to obsessions, your worries don\x{c3}\x{83}\x{c2}\x{83}\x{c3}\x{82}\x{c2}...07:15
@perlmonkey2hmm, looks like an encoding issue.07:16
patspamyeah, explode_on_apostrophe07:16
patspambut possibly only microsoft word apostrophes07:16
patspamI'm trying to trigger it now07:16
@perlmonkey2oh, wow, just realized what was going on (just slept through a dvd and trying to wake up).07:17
@perlmonkey2looks like the windows ` was badly encoded which caused everything behind it to become wide.07:18
@perlmonkey2or something07:18
patspamyeah.. the first thing i can reproduce is that if you put a (') into the text it generates a couple of garbage characters07:20
patspamand then every time you edit/save it the garbled text grows07:20
@perlmonkey2so the badly encoded chars are reencoded as more malformed chars07:23
@perlmonkey2so win32 `'s being read as UTF8?07:24
patspamyep. and every time you edit any survey field the badness doubles07:24
patspamyeah it's probably a to_json vs encode_json thing07:25
@perlmonkey2okay, I'll give it a go in about 8.5 hours and see what I come up with.07:26
patspamthanks chief!07:26
@perlmonkey2the fun fun encoding fun, never ends.07:26
patspamperl -e 'use JSON; use Data::Dumper; print Dumper(encode_json({a=>"'"})) . Dumper(to_json({a=>"'"}))'07:27
patspams/from_json/decode_json/g && s/to_json/encode_json/g solves it07:35
@perlmonkey2I thought that was already done.08:10
@perlmonkey2patspam: you might try a diff on your branch because I was pretty sure that was already changed.08:10
patspamlooks like to_ and from_ methods are still in trunk08:13
@perlmonkey2patspam: hmm, then it seems like we went away from encode on purpose.  08:16
@perlmonkey2went to to/from because encoding was being done elsewhere.  I'll have to dig through the code to make sure, but maybe the change has the reason for it in the logs.  Haarg would probably know, he's good about remembering these types of issues.08:17
@perlmonkey2crap, way past my bedtime.  I'll see what I can figure out in the morning patspam and let you know.08:18
patspamfor sure!. i'm interested to hear the reasoning when you get to the bottom of it as i do a lot of json encoding in my own code08:18
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Lisetteanyone knows about thingy?16:24
+BartJolnot much16:25
Lisetteabout the code?16:25
Lisettethe api16:25
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+BartJolnever worked with that16:25
Lisettemmmm ok16:25
+BartJolbut you can try, the guy that programmed it isn't online very often16:28
+BartJoli'll be back in a minute16:29
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Lisettehow to do to get all register of a thing specified?16:32
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+BartJolsorry Lisette, I don't really understand what you're trying to do16:42
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Lisettei want to get all values of a thing16:45
+BartJolit should be www_viewThingData ( )16:47
+BartJoland give the thingId as a parameter16:47
Lisettei try, tjanks16:50
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+BartJolLisette: you know you can find the API on http://www.webgui.org/downloads/builds , right?16:54
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* danny_mk is curious about the graphics->pallete/graphics->fonts17:07
danny_mkI have seen those options there for a long time however I have no idea what they are used for, and there does not seem to be anything about them in the Wiki17:08
+BartJoldanny_mk: I've never used them either, am also wondering about those, but maybe in an old version there is some info17:09
danny_mkI can't believe that questions has never been asked before and it is not in the Wiki17:13
+BartJolwell I can imagine that the fonts can be used so people don't actually have to have all fonts installed17:13
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danny_mkI have a feeling they can be useful, maybe I will dig in one of these days and figure out what they do17:15
danny_mkor how they can be used17:15
+BartJolyeah, it's very handy when you can specify colours and fonts, but you also have to know how to incorporate them17:16
+BartJolI can't find much in the help of my old site, where the help was more extensive17:16
danny_mkright, there is not much info on these features17:18
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+BartJoldanny_mk: it seems that Mr Hairgrease knows all about this stuff. It can be used in a grahic plugin, maybe his last WUC presentation can be found on the website17:33
danny_mkHmmmm... now to hunt down that presentation...17:34
+BartJolit has some parts: http://www.webgui.org/uploads/kr/DF/krDFC-JDs7rbX8D3TbWAAA/wuc_file.jpg17:37
+BartJoland http://www.webgui.org/uploads/se/if/seifvo9O4Y3YYuHZXoOrUA/gauging_the_graphing_system.pdf17:38
+BartJolinstead of that jpg :)17:39
danny_mkalright, thanks, let me take a look at it17:39
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@perlmonkey2Haarg: Did patspam talk to you last night about the ' char and json?18:01
danny_mkThank you BartJol, it seems that it is mainly use for the charts18:06
+BartJolwell, martin made the sheets18:06
+BartJolbut, glad to be some help18:06
@Haarghe didn't talk to me about it, but i skimmed the conversation you had18:08
@perlmonkey2Haarg: any idea what to do?  I'm not really sure what's up with the ' anyways18:22
LisetteIf I have two thingy and the second one I have the first field type thingy, I can to make filters?18:22
@Haargi will have to look at it again18:22
@Haargi need to make sure we're using to_json/from_json consistantly18:22
@Haargaside from a few special cases18:23
@Haargsurvey shouldn't be a special case though18:23
@perlmonkey2hmm, in the wobject dir, only Poll and Calendar still use encode_json and eventmanagersystem and poll use decode_json.  But the survey uses to/from.18:26
@perlmonkey2Haarg: do you know where that char ' comes from?  Is that a Windows apostrophe?18:27
@Haargseems likely18:28
@Haarga fancy quote or whatever18:28
@Haargword sticks those in18:28
@perlmonkey2Haarg: I'm just not sure what is going on with it.  If it isnt' in the utf8 codespace, why can I see it in my utf8 term?  If it is in the codespace, why is it blowing up in a browser/mysql browser dispalying utf8?18:30
@Haargit is in the utf8 codespace, but it isn't encoded properly18:31
@Haargi don't know why though18:31
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mummy oook , iuuuuuuuulll18:34
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@perlmonkey2Haarg: I'm thinking this works :)  perl -MEncode -e"use Data::Dumper;  print Dumper encode('utf8',decode_utf8(''',Encode::LEAVE_SRC));"18:44
@perlmonkey2Encode::LEAVE_SRC just says if it is already wide, leave it alone.18:44
@perlmonkey2and I'm not sure why we would expect octets in from the server?18:44
@perlmonkey2But session::form expects octets.  Does mod_perl handle conversion from the http headers?18:44
@Haarghttp headers don't have that information18:45
@Haargso you just have to make an assumption18:45
@Haargwhich means we assume utf818:45
@Haargmod_perl doesn't do any conversion18:45
@Haargbut we automatically decode everything that comes in, so everything coming through session->form should already by as characters18:46
@perlmonkey2Haarg: yes, that is the only place a decode appears to happen, at least for survey.18:48
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@perlmonkey2This must be something with WG, because I can decode_utf8 then encode that char on the command line without issue.  18:57
@perlmonkey2Haarg: hmm, maybe its somethign I'm doing on display, because it makes it from the webserver to the database correctly formatted :)19:01
@perlmonkey2narrowed it down to the javascript js decode (you guys loving the play by play?)19:03
* perlDreamer is still waiting for the pointer and X O chart to be drawn19:04
@perlmonkey2okay, the last trace in the server side, after the json encode shows the text correctly encoded.  But in the javascript, before the json decode is called, the ' chars are malformed.19:06
@perlmonkey2intersting, an index.html with nothing but '''''''''''''''''' turns into ‚EUR(TM)‚EUR(TM)‚EUR(TM)‚EUR(TM)‚EUR(TM)‚EUR(TM)‚EUR(TM)‚EUR(TM)‚EUR(TM)‚EUR(TM)‚EUR(TM)‚EUR(TM)‚EUR(TM)‚EUR(TM)‚EUR(TM)‚EUR(TM)‚EUR(TM)‚EUR(TM) when opened in firefox.19:07
@Haargneeds some kind of headers to know the encoding19:08
@perlmonkey2firefox defaults to ISO-8859-1.........and WG doesn't send an encoding in the response header.19:08
@perlmonkey2well that was a long and painful journey to nowhere.19:08
@Haargthat makes more sense19:09
@Haargi was thinking about it terms of that we always serve things with utf8 headers19:09
@perlmonkey2I'm going to go hit myself with  a hammer now.  brb.19:09
@Haargbut that's only for html19:09
@perlmonkey2so app/json should also have the econding in the header?19:10
@Haargnot quite19:10
@Haargonly text/ can have an encoding type19:10
@Haargi'll have to look at that19:11
@perlmonkey2tell the users to default to utf8?  which they shoudl be anyways?  19:11
@Haargjson doesn't have an official mime type, wonder why application/ is usually chosen19:11
@perlmonkey2Haarg: hmm, I left the deafult mime type and encoding in there, and the json works, but I'm still seeing the bad decodings of that char.  Even though the header says it is utf8.19:15
@perlmonkey2Content-Typetext/html; charset=UTF-819:15
@perlmonkey2That' sfrom the response header19:16
@Haargi don't know19:16
@perlmonkey2Haarg: what about HTML encoding and decoding?  19:23
@Haargi'll have to look at it later19:23
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@perlmonkey2Haarg: Naw, HTML::Encode is only used for encoding the script and link tags, so that can't be it.  I'm running out of ideas.19:28
@Haargwell, i can look at it some later today19:29
@perlmonkey2Haarg: okay, I'm not expecting you to do anything now, just passing along whatever I'm finding.  FYI, the results of running HTML::Entities encode on the char gives the malformed string I'm seeing.  Have zero idea how that is happening both with WG and with just a simple index.html being read directly by firefox.19:32
@perlmonkey2almost like firefox is encoding it.19:32
@perlmonkey2those should not show the same thing in firefox unless firefox sucks.19:34
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@perlmonkey2Haarg: okay, setting firefox to default to utf8 fixed the problem for the index.html.  But I'm still getting the problem in WG.  I've grep'd for all the HTML::Entities calls, and don't see how any could be called on non-tagged content.19:41
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* perlDreamer goes to the gym20:15
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bkqmackeyI was wondering if anyone has seen any issues using YUI menus with IE? When you mouseover and there is a submenu, the background image is repeated, and keeps getting larger the more it's moused over.20:27
bkqmackeyThis does not happen in FF20:27
bkqmackeyIt also only happens on the first item that has a submenu, not the second20:32
+MrHairgreasebkqmackey: haven't seen it, but you might want to check http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=165715&atid=836476 and report it if that hasn't been done alreday20:50
bkqmackeyWell I put a band-aid on it (not sure how this will impact in the future) but I renamed the new JS files and replaced them with the ones that worked when I was using 7.4.4020:55
bkqmackeyAnd thanks for the link, I'll check if it's over there.20:56
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bernd_Anyone familiar with the gallery?22:44
bernd_I found that templates conditionally include a CSS style sheet called "gallery-ie.css".22:44
bernd_But I cannot find it anywhere.22:45
bernd_Search does not return anything.22:45
bernd_It is supposed to be under "root/import/gallery-templates/gallery-ie.css".22:45
bernd_So, who has hacked the gallery? Hands up!22:48
+perlDreamerbernd_: which version of wG are you running?22:48
+perlDreamerwhich one?22:49
bernd_7.5.38 to be precise.22:49
+perlDreamerah, okay.  That's what I needed.22:49
bernd_perlDreamer, it actually may be possible it was just commented out.22:50
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bernd_That is the code: http://webgui.pastebin.com/d4b4a885622:51
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+perlDreamerif I create a site from 7.5.38 and go through the upgrade process, I get a gallery-ie.css file in Asset search22:54
bernd_So you upgrade to 7.5.38?22:55
bernd_Or from 7.5.38 to something?22:55
+perlDreamerfrom 7.5.38 to .3922:55
+perlDreamerand if I make a demo server, it shows up there, too22:55
+perlDreamerso what's special about your site, bernd_?22:55
+perlDreamerHaarg, does the demo server work by using create.sql?22:56
bernd_Not sure.22:56
bernd_Let me search again.22:56
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+perlDreamergallery-ie is how I found it22:56
bernd_No it is not there.22:57
bernd_When was it included?22:57
+perlDreamerit should have been installed in the upgrade to 7.5.3822:57
bernd_I think I copied the templates from the beta when looking for i18n.22:57
bernd_But if it was included in 7.5.38 it should be there.22:57
bernd_Let my try an update later on.22:58
bernd_That is anyway on my schedule.22:58
bernd_Maybe it will show up then.22:58
+perlDreamerno, if you're using 7.5.38 now it should be in there22:58
bernd_So obviously it was not included.22:59
bernd_I do not remember any error messages upon my last update.22:59
Lisetteanyone know about the api of thingy?23:00
+perlDreamerwhat are you trying to do, Lisette?23:00
bernd_perlDreamer, I am stupid!23:01
bernd_My version is 7.5.37!23:02
bernd_It only says that 7.5.38 is available.23:02
+perlDreamerah, in that case, I recommend an upgrade ;)23:02
bernd_Sorry for taking time from you.23:02
+perlDreamerRosa kartoffel kopf?23:02
bernd_It is written in one word.23:02
bernd_Where did you get that one from?23:02
+perlDreamerMy wife's brother.23:02
bernd_Did he say it to you?23:03
+perlDreamerYes, he was telling me that he and his friends made up words in German class by stringing them together23:04
+perlDreamerand actually, I remembered it incorrectly23:04
+perlDreamerit was rosakartoffelzaft23:04
+perlDreamerPink pototo juice23:04
bernd_What is it supposed to mean?23:04
+perlDreamerPink potato juice23:05
+perlDreamera non-sense word23:05
+perlDreamersince potatoes are not pink, nor are they juiced23:05
bernd_I see.23:06
+perlDreamerit was a poor way of demonstrating something stupid.  I'm sorry.23:07
bernd_No problem =)23:07
bernd_I was just confused.23:08
Lisettei need to get the values of a thing23:08
+perlDreamerLisette, check out the search and view methods for clues on how to do that23:08
+perlDreamerI don't think there's a straight-forward way to get values for a Thing23:09
+perlDreamerbut I could be wrong23:09
+perlDreamerI think it's all done with SQL23:09
Lisettemmm ok23:09
Lisetteanother question perlDreamer, i can to get a value of a field in a definition of a paydriver by code?23:10
+perlDreamerSure.  I think paydrivers have a ->get method?23:11
+perlDreameryes, they do23:11
+perlDreamerso you can do $payDriver->get('vendorId') if you have an ITransact PayDriver23:12
Lisette'vendorId' is the label in a definition?23:12
+perlDreamerShop/PayDriver/ITransact.pm, line 35523:15
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+perlDreamersyntax highlighting in vim works so much better when you name the modules foo.pm instead of foo.com01:03
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wgGuest76perlDreamer: sorry we got disconneted there, but my battery went quite suddenly04:01
+perlDreamerI hate it when that happens04:01
wgGuest76and now i can't get connected as myself.04:01
+perlDreamerbecause your other account hasn't timed out yet04:02
+perlDreamerpreaction, perlmonkey2, steveo_aa, could you please kick daviddelikat?04:02
wgGuest76well, I'll be a little while anyway, I was jsut going to tell you that I'm haaving server problems04:02
wgGuest76shouldn't be but a couple of minutes though, something just did not boot correctly...04:03
+perlDreamerdaviddelikat, while you get back online, please find out what the error messages were with mod_p{erl,roxy} and pastebin them for me.04:03
+perlDreamerI have to go start a kid in a shower.04:03
wgGuest76yeah I'm trying to get three to go to bed too.04:03
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+perlDreameri've found it easier to put them to bed than to shower them04:07
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wgGuest76indeed, showers are the ultimate in parental test04:09
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+perlDreamerI'll be back soon, gotta enqueue  a new kid into the shower04:19
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@perlmonkey2daviddelikat: sorry about that.04:19
@perlmonkey2did the invite let you back in?04:19
daviddelikatperlmonkey2 no more kicking please04:19
daviddelikatdid i get an invite?04:20
@perlmonkey2yeah I sent one04:20
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CIA-46WebGUI: jt * r9215 /experimental/Automat/lib/ (WebGUI/Asset/Automat.pm Automat/Site.pm): switcheroo on site/domain creation04:41
+perlDreamerperlmonkey2, using the WRE, how easy is it to switch back forth between 7.5 and 7.6?04:47
@perlmonkey2ah, well the way I do it is extremely simple.04:50
@perlmonkey2I keep multiple complete installs soft linked04:50
@perlmonkey2/datahead /data7.5head /data7.5.23 etc.04:50
+perlDreamerand after switching softlinks, how do you build a new site?04:50
@perlmonkey2like I would with a new install?  What do you mean?04:51
+perlDreamerokay, say I've been working on a 7.6 site04:51
@perlmonkey2./wreconsole? or addsite.pl?04:51
+perlDreamerand I have to back port some svn changes to 7.504:51
+perlDreameri softlink over to 7.504:51
+perlDreamerthen how do I create the new site?04:51
+perlDreamerto test the changes with?04:51
@perlmonkey2oh, you want to backport a site to 7.5.  Not sure I've ever done that.  04:52
+perlDreamerno, not a site04:52
+perlDreamerremember, I'm WRE ignorant04:52
+perlDreamerso after softlinking back to a 7.5, I just run addsite.pl or wreconsole and I'm good to go/04:52
@perlmonkey2just make sure you've stopped the first instance completely, then link data to the other site and I always use wreconsole04:53
* perlDreamer takes a break to become Dentist Daddy...04:53
daviddelikatoooo a loose tooth04:54
@perlmonkey2I'm pretty sure there is a much better way.  But I can switch instances in 3 commands.04:54
@perlmonkey2good enough for me :)04:54
+perlDreamernot bad at all05:14
daviddelikatperlmonkey2: so when i'm setting myself up for multi-version sites I want to make sure that i have a unique database for each version do i just make a different dbuser in the WebGUI conf file?05:26
+perlDreameryou should be able to use the same user for all dbs05:29
@perlmonkey2daviddelikat: hmm, I make completely unique sites.  Each directory has its own WRE and WebGUI and domains.05:29
@perlmonkey2So the dbusers can be all the same with the same pwd's as they aren't with the same databases.05:29
daviddelikatthe site name is a parameter for addsite.pl?05:30
+perlDreamerperl addsite.pl --help05:30
daviddelikatperlmonkey2 still fails, modperl is trying to read localhost.conf05:39
daviddelikati called the new server local7_505:39
daviddelikatthere is a conf file names www.local7_5.com.conf05:40
daviddelikatthis was the command i used05:41
daviddelikatperl /data/wre/sbin/addsite.pl --sitename=www.local7_5.com  --adminPassword=123qwe05:41
daviddelikatthe help showed the sitename with www...com05:41
daviddelikatshould i heve left that off?05:41
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@perlmonkey2no, I usually use www.test.com05:43
+perlDreamerso it overwrites each time?05:43
@perlmonkey2no, I only create it once for each site.05:44
@perlmonkey2why is modperl trying to read localhost.conf05:44
daviddelikatthere is one difference btwn my config and yours, I only link the WebGUI directory,  not the whole data directory05:45
daviddelikatis that likely to be the problem?05:46
@perlmonkey2well, hmm05:48
@perlmonkey2you use the same WRE instance with multiple WebGUI directories?  I guess as long as each instance had a unique DB, there shouldn't be a problem.05:48
daviddelikatunique db as in site name or ???05:49
+perlDreamertime to go hang up the honyocks, be back in 1005:50
@perlmonkey2as in a unique mysql schema05:50
@perlmonkey2hasta pd05:50
@perlmonkey2daviddelikat: but that wouldn't work for me.  I use www.test.com for everything.05:51
daviddelikatthat is why i wanted to use a different site name05:51
daviddelikathense local7_505:51
daviddelikatso evertime you switch versions you create a new site?05:52
@perlmonkey2daviddelikat: well when I create a new version I create a new intance of www.test.com.05:54
@perlmonkey2but I really only keep 4 around.05:54
@perlmonkey27.5head 7.6head a specific 7.6 and 7.5 which I svn to a specific version then reset the site.05:54
daviddelikatok I guess I'll just keep the same name, i assume that addsite drops the data tables before it creates anything ...05:55
@perlmonkey2don't know05:56
daviddelikatthanks for your help05:56
@perlmonkey2no problem05:56
@perlmonkey2if you have any issues, yell05:56
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daviddelikatperlmonkey2:  is this a problem?  wreservice.pl --restart all06:12
daviddelikatRestart MySQL:        FAILED!06:12
daviddelikatRestart mod_perl:     FAILED!06:12
daviddelikatRestart mod_proxy:    FAILED!06:12
daviddelikatRestart S.P.E.C.T.R.E.:OK06:12
@perlmonkey2daviddelikat: naw, that means things are groovy06:13
@perlmonkey2just kidding06:13
@perlmonkey2yeah, what do the logs say?06:13
daviddelikatI love that FIALED!06:13
daviddelikatoh yeah logs06:13
@perlmonkey2oh is mysql started?06:13
@perlmonkey2if you have another version going from elsewhere, wreservice wont' stop it.06:13
@perlmonkey2and is /etc/my.cnf (or whatever it is) removed?06:14
daviddelikatno I stopped it... I'll do some investigating and get back06:14
* daviddelikat getting sleepy06:15
daviddelikatvirtual machines are really cool because when they gat totally bunged up you just erase them and start fresh06:32
daviddelikatthat assumes that you keep copies of them in stable states...06:32
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+perlDreamerthat has to be one of the more unique IRC handles I've seen in a while06:39
oddtruncheonhello, thanks06:39
oddtruncheoni've got a problem06:41
+perlDreamerwhat's your problem, oddtruncheon?06:41
+perlDreamerwe're only good with WebGUI here06:41
+perlDreamerfinancial and personal problems are a different channel06:42
oddtruncheonthe workflow "Send Queued Email Messages" is driving me insane.06:42
+perlDreamerwhich version of WebGUI are you using?06:42
oddtruncheoni've started sifting through the code to understand it but i'm concerned that i'm missing something far simpler. I just upgraded to 7.5.3806:43
+perlDreamerokay, and what's the problem with the workflow?06:44
oddtruncheonas far as i can tell it never executes06:44
+perlDreamerhere are some things to try06:44
+perlDreamer1) change the log.conf file and set the log level to DEBUG06:45
+perlDreamerthis will generate TONS of output and diagnostics06:45
+perlDreameryou'll need to restart WebGUI and spectre to see the changes06:45
+perlDreamer2) double check that you can connect to your email server06:46
+perlDreamerport forwarding, firewall, proxy issues, the whole 9 yards06:46
oddtruncheonlooking at enhanced logs now. (the mail server part should be clean. i can telnet to it via port 25 no problem)06:47
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r9216 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm): 06:48
CIA-46WebGUI: Fix a bug where the getToolbar will set links in the body of the page,06:48
CIA-46WebGUI: even when adminMode is not turned on.06:48
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r9217 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm): 06:48
CIA-46WebGUI: Moving toolbar cache into the getToolbar sub. This was to be the forward port06:48
CIA-46WebGUI: of the getToolbar adminOn fix, but 7.6 already does uses adminOn to prevent06:48
CIA-46WebGUI: extra output from being generated.06:48
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r9218 /wrebuild/wre/sbin/wreupgrade.pl: Set the executable bit on the wreupgrade script.06:48
+perlDreamerman, that colin guy is doing some serious hacking tonight06:48
@perlmonkey2he's on fire!06:49
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oddtruncheonshould "" be considered a valid subnet for the spectreSubnets entry in the site config?07:02
+Radix-wrkno, 1.0 isn't a valid ip07:04
+Radix-wrk192.168.1.1/32 would be07:04
+perlDreamerwouldn't the /32 cover .0 or .1?07:04
+Radix-wrkdepends how good the code is07:04
+perlDreameroddtruncheon, I've only ever seen spectre setup on localhost,
+perlDreamertry the WebGUI forums for more on that07:05
+perlDreameror, the WebGUI Admin Guide07:05
oddtruncheonall the other workflows work fine for me so far which makes it that much more frustrating.07:06
oddtruncheonat least the ones i've tried07:06
+perlDreamerare you sure that your email server is configured correctly in the server settings?07:08
oddtruncheoni was wondering if a port needed to be specified in the smtp server line, but changing the spectresubnet to use has changed a number of things in the logs. apparently is not valid.07:11
oddtruncheonand apparently more workslows weren't working than i expected.07:11
+perlDreamerI like that07:16
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oddtruncheonWell it was the spectresubnets config that was the problem. Changed it to and everything worked fine. my thanks to perlDreamer and Radix-wrk for the pointers and info. It definitely helped.07:26
+Radix-wrkcool.. glad that sorted it :)07:26
oddtruncheonThe 0 vs 1 thing really threw me cause i've been using in other apps/configs for years.07:27
+Radix-wrkyeah?  well is valid as it is a subnet07:28
oddtruncheonah, maybe thats what i'm thinking07:28
+Radix-wrkbut is not, as a /32 subnet is effectively only one ip07:28
oddtruncheonug, thats why i always try to specify the full i never get the shorthand right.07:29
+Radix-wrkheh :)07:29
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oddtruncheoni don't even want to think about why my firewall ( is issuing the request to spectre tonight. I should probably do what I saw in the forums and update my /etc hosts to resolve my site names to
oddtruncheonThanks again.07:34
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+perlDreamerwhat's up elnino?07:45
elninoI'm installing wre on a zen server. other than that not much.07:45
elninoand you?07:46
elninobusy with bugs?07:46
+perlDreamerI had a look at the matrix version tag bug tonight07:46
+perlDreamerI'm not sure that the autocommit of the CS is a bug07:46
elninowell, when I create a cs, I have to commit it in order to make posts.  but I can see how it can be argued both ways.07:46
+perlDreamerbut there was definitely a bug with trying to delete a CS from a matrix listing that had already been deleted07:46
elninobut I guess (and maybe I didnt' mention this) the matrix wasn't supposed to be open to visitors, and according to the perms, it is not.07:47
elninoso that should not even have happened at all. And because it did happen,07:47
elninoI would have thought it would have "stoppped" the process07:47
elninoby preventing th ecs from being autocommitted, when the site is set to not-auto0commit07:48
+perlDreamerthe matrix is really old code, and has always autocommitted07:49
elninoit certainly is a slick asset. that's how I found webgui:  www.cmsmatrix.org07:49
+perlDreamerIn 7.6, they got rid of the CS and use the new Comments feature, like the bug board and the wiki07:50
elninothat's good to know.07:50
elninowe heavily use CS.07:50
+perlDreamerNo, just for the Matrix07:50
elninooh. good. you scared me.07:50
+perlDreamerso, instead of a full CS for each listing, there are just comments07:51
+perlDreamerI've looked at the listing save code, and it looks pretty solid07:54
+perlDreamerare you sure this isn't the case where your marketing people turned off the protection settings?07:54
elninono, that is where I first looked, the perms are set correctly.07:54
elninoI have a feeling the visiter knew the correct url parameters.07:55
+perlDreamerreturn $i18n->get('no edit rights') unless (($self->session->form->process("listingId") eq "new" && $self->session->user->isInGroup($self->get("groupToAdd"))) || $self->session->user->userId eq $listing->{maintainerId} || $self->canEdit);07:55
+perlDreamerevery one of those is group or userId protected07:55
+perlDreamerif a new listing, then user must be in the groupToAdd group07:56
elninoI didn't check to see if visitor was added to the marketin group. I can do that.. however they don't have permissions to modify users or groups... or they shouldn't....07:56
+perlDreamerand I'll double check that each of those groups actually exists07:57
+perlDreamerto make sure it's as good as it looks07:57
+perlDreameractually, there's an easy check07:58
+perlDreamercan you still add a Matrix listing on your site as visitor?07:58
elninoI removed the link from the template.  Let me reset it...08:00
elninowell. hmm. 08:01
elninoI made it so it wasn't visible. so it's telling me now what I don't have permission to add anything. So now I have to make it visible.  hold on08:01
elninoand it may have been totalled screwed up with the cs's deleted..   so it's not exactly the same test..08:02
+perlDreamerI just added a Matrix to my dev sit08:02
+perlDreamerand if I try to access the screen directly, it tells me that I don't rights to edit this listing.08:03
+perlDreameras Visitor08:03
elninoI just don't know how to explain how the visitor was able to create a listing.. =(  I have 7.5.24....08:04
elninoI can't duplicate either.  Could it be that vistor as a password someone knows? I'm trying to think of all options...08:05
+perlDreamerI'll have a quick peek at the 7.5.24 version of the matrix.08:06
+perlDreamerit's the same as in 7.5.38 (and 39)08:08
+perlDreamerand the version tags for the CS'es were owned by Visitor?08:08
elninobut they are deleted, so I can't double check.. =(08:09
+perlDreamerdoes your site allow anonymous registration?08:09
elninothat's fine.  I guess I wouldn't spend more time on it.  I don't even know why it was put on the website in the first place. the marketing group a year ago didn't want it up, and the next thing I knew, it was despite the browser incompatiblity issues they found.08:09
elninohmm. no.. there aren't any users in there that shouldn't be. but Ill double check.08:09
+perlDreamerI was just thinking that is someone could create a user named Visitor...08:10
+perlDreamerand that the Matrix allowed registered users to add matrix listings08:10
+perlDreamerthat would explain what you saw08:10
elninothe visitor there has a uid of 108:10
elninolast updated in september.08:10
elninothis all occured on jan 3,4,5,608:11
elninoor somethign like that.08:11
elninoand visitor is not part of any groups.  I just double checked.08:11
elninoah. don't worry about it. If I come accross it again, I'll yell. 08:12
+perlDreamerI hate to miss a chance to find and fix a good bug08:12
elninoyeah, it sound like a good tasty one.08:12
+perlDreamerokay, I'll report what we talked about, and I was able to fix the delete listing problem08:12
elninoworks for me... 08:12
+perlDreamernext time, if you can, just dump the whole db before cleaning up08:13
+perlDreamerthat way you can always clone the site for analysis and debug08:13
elninook.  If I thouht about it I could have gotten the day before's backup.  but it's been over a week already. =(  or when did I submit the bug?08:14
elninoad how do I get out of full screen mode??08:15
+perlDreamerfull screen mode?08:15
+perlDreamerjanuary 6th08:15
+perlDreamerso maybe not too late?08:15
elnino14-6=8  too late.. dand08:16
elninojust slammed over it couple hours ago.08:16
+perlDreameroh, yeah08:16
+perlDreamerI'm two hours ahead of you08:16
elninoI'm in zen server, staring at a login screenm not knowing my password, full screen, and can't get out.. how embarrassing.08:17
+perlDreamerhm, try ESC, right click, any of those?08:17
elninothey are all accepted by the linux screen.so I get a bunch of ctrl characters.08:18
elninohh. Time to go to bed.08:18
elninoI give up. I gues I won't be installing wre. 08:19
elninotee hee!  ctrl alt del08:19
elninoactually.  ctrl alt08:20
+perlDreamerthat worked?08:26
elninoctrl-alt goes back and forth. who would have thunk.08:27
elninoI was getting desparate and was going to reboot.08:27
+perlDreamer                     Full Screen                                                                 Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F  Allows you to toggle between full screen and normal mode.08:27
elninooh, zen server, it's actually  full-screen of the console, which is a only a portion of the zen server app/dialog box. I think what you said would work  if I full screened the dialog box.08:29
elninohopefully that made sense, hard to explain.08:29
+perlDreameryeah, I think I got it08:30
* perlDreamer heads to bed. Happy hacking, elnino!08:30
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CIA-46WebGUI: patspam * r9219 /branch/survey-rfe/ (922 files in 446 dirs): (log message trimmed)08:34
CIA-46WebGUI: Merge commit 'tags/WebGUI_7.6.8-beta' into survey-rfe08:34
CIA-46WebGUI: * commit 'tags/WebGUI_7.6.8-beta': (96 commits)08:34
CIA-46WebGUI:  Release 7.6.8-beta08:34
CIA-46WebGUI:  preparing for 7.6.8 release08:34
CIA-46WebGUI:  convert to new storage format08:34
CIA-46WebGUI:  fixing photo comment test08:34
CIA-46WebGUI: patspam * r9220 /branch/survey-rfe/t/Asset/Wobject/Survey/ResponseJSON.t: Added gotoExpression tests (from flux branch)08:34
CIA-46WebGUI: patspam * r9221 /branch/survey-rfe/www/extras/wobject/Survey/ (administersurvey.js surveyedit.css): More code from flux branch08:34
CIA-46WebGUI: patspam * r9222 /branch/survey-rfe/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey/ResponseJSON.pm: More minor edits from flux branch08:34
CIA-46WebGUI: colin * r9223 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Matrix.pm): 08:34
CIA-46WebGUI: Fix a problem where a matrix listing could not be purged if the CS it contained could not08:34
CIA-46WebGUI: be deleted.08:34
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wgGuest03hi to all, today i explore the world of webgui...i use drupla, joomla adn umbraco and other cms but i don't know perl cms15:47
wgGuest03is difficult?15:47
wgGuest03how do i costumize template?15:47
wgGuest03i figure otu that i have to avoid for the moment the construction of my own template15:48
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+BartJolhi c_thomas16:47
+BartJolany questions?16:47
c_thomasI'm just trying to learn how to use this irc thing16:48
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+BartJolpb guys, what's the max upload for the webgui.org bazaar?18:30
+BartJolperlmonkey2: do you know the max upload size of webgui.org?18:40
@perlmonkey2BartJol: ah, specificially at webgui.org.  No idea.18:41
@preactionBartJol: one sec18:43
+BartJolI'll wait18:43
@preaction100mb, the windows WRE is something like 160MB18:44
+BartJolyou answer that pots, or will I do that?18:44
+BartJoljt already did18:45
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ckotili had to crank my max upload to around a gig. people wanted to start uploading cd images to our file repo, which webgui handles.18:57
ckotiland there was talk about dvd images. but i put my foot down on that.18:58
+BartJolckotil: sounds like a smart move19:00
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ckotilthankfully we only have a single image on their now. windows XP pro corporate edition.19:05
ckotilbut when it gets tagged for version control multiple copies are created.19:05
ckotili have been removing the old versions manually to reduce the size of my webgui installation. 19:06
+BartJolthat can grow quite some19:06
ckotiloh i lie, we have a few images, but they are small.19:06
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ckotilmy source installation is 7.1 gb gzip'd19:06
ckotildb is 120MB19:07
+BartJolmmm, you don't wanna transfer that size of files via http19:08
ckotilno joke.19:09
ckotili have an rsync cronjob to a hot backup server that also does mysql replication.19:09
+BartJolI'm quite serious actually19:09
ckotilits an efficient rsync.19:09
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fxkhello, I am curious what changes were made to 7.5.38 (using Debian's package) 19:16
fxkspecifically the "children" in an asset tree are not rendered19:17
fxkin http:www.example.com/file?op=assetManager;method=manage19:17
+BartJolwell, the changes are in http://www.webgui.org/getwebgui/advisories/webgui-7_5_38-stable-released#6-8PSMarTGHYuDrHhSPtrw19:17
+BartJolso you mean that you don't see the assets under an asset in the manager?19:18
+BartJolthat's probably a config error19:18
fxkI had this error before 19:18
+BartJolwell what you must do19:18
fxkand I modded the webgui.conf (from the debian package)19:18
fxkand they rendered....19:18
+BartJolyeah, the operations are in the wrong order19:19
fxkafter the update two days ago it ceased19:19
+BartJolI had the same problem19:19
+perlDreamerthat problem should be reported to the debian package maintainer19:19
+perlDreamerthere's not much we core devs can do to prevent people from mucking with the config file19:19
+BartJolbut is that really the debian package? I thought it was due to the upgrade script19:20
+BartJolotherwise I'll have to bash Koen19:20
+BartJolI thought only the wre was packaged for OS's19:21
+BartJolfxk: it didn't fix itself right?19:23
+BartJolthat would be strange with such an error19:23
fxkthing Debian never mucks around with /etc19:23
fxkI am looking for the "correct order" of content handlers19:24
fxkto test19:24
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+BartJolin WebGUI/etc19:25
+perlDreamerif that's not in Debian, you can get a copy of it here:19:25
+BartJolI haven't had problems that the original conf file wasn't there19:25
+perlDreameryou've used the Debian package?19:26
+BartJolmmm, maybe should doublecheck that\19:27
+perlDreamerfxk, I've had what sounds like a similar problem intermittently.19:27
+perlDreamerI get an Asset Manager screen, with no children displayed19:28
fxkthat is the order in the Debian Package19:28
+perlDreamerit's usually do to a problem getting AJAX data from the server quickly19:28
fxkmy fix before was to add WebGUI::Content::AssetManager in the utilityAssets19:30
+BartJol"contentHandlers" : [19:30
+BartJol    "WebGUI::Content::Prefetch",19:30
+BartJol    "WebGUI::Content::Maintenance",19:30
+BartJol    "WebGUI::Content::Referral",19:30
+BartJol    "WebGUI::Content::AssetManager",19:30
+BartJol    "WebGUI::Content::AssetDiscovery",19:30
+BartJol    "WebGUI::Content::AjaxI18N",19:30
+BartJol    "WebGUI::Content::Account",19:30
+BartJol    "WebGUI::Content::Operation",19:30
+BartJol    "WebGUI::Content::Setup",19:30
+BartJol    "WebGUI::Content::Shop",19:30
+BartJol    "WebGUI::Content::SiteIndex",19:30
+BartJol    "WebGUI::Content::Asset",19:30
+BartJol    "WebGUI::Content::NotFound"19:30
+BartJolthis is my order and it works19:30
+perlDreamerusually better to paste that, BartJol.19:30
+perlDreamerthat way people can copy and paste19:31
+BartJolok, wait a minute19:31
+BartJolbut this way, it looks like I can type really fast19:32
+BartJoland don't forget to restart modperl ;)19:34
+BartJolarg, I must admit, that is 7.6.819:35
+BartJolsorry fxk19:37
+perlDreamerfxk, what exactly do you see when you don't see children?  Are there any webgui.log error messages?19:38
+perlDreameris it consistently not displayed, or random19:38
fxkit is consistently not displaying since the update two days ago19:39
+BartJolI updated it in the pastebin19:39
+perlDreamerokay, next step is to check the webgui.log file next for errors19:40
+perlDreamerconsistent bugs are easier to fix19:40
+BartJolbut I've gotta get some food, success19:41
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+perlDreamerfxk, I created a WebGUI demo site, and the asset manager is working there.19:43
+perlDreameryou can see it if you wish19:43
+perlDreamerstandard admin login and password19:43
fxksymbolic link not allowed or link target not accessible19:44
fxkin error logs19:44
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fxkin /usr/share/webgui/extras/yui/build19:45
+perlDreamercan you pastebin that for me?  http://webgui.pastebin.com19:45
+perlDreamerdoes that link exist on your system?19:48
+perlDreamerreadable by web server, apache config configured for links, etc.?19:49
fxkit exists.... but is a symbolic link to noplace19:50
+perlDreamerwell, that's your problem then19:50
fxkyour comments did shed light19:51
CIA-35WebGUI: colin * r9224 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Keyword.pm: Update POD about getKeywordsForAsset.19:51
CIA-35WebGUI: colin * r9225 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Mirror the indent loop calculation to the rel_depth in the Navigation.19:51
CIA-35WebGUI: colin * r9226 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Backport Navigation reldepth fix.19:51
+perlDreamerso, it seems like we need to do 2 things19:51
+perlDreamer1) find out if that file exists so you can fix your site19:51
+perlDreamer2) report it to the debian package maintainer19:51
+perlDreamerdo you have locate installed on your system?19:51
fxkI do now19:53
+perlDreamerokay :)19:53
+perlDreamerrun updatedb19:53
+perlDreamerthen do: locate assetManager.js19:54
+perlDreameryou'll be able to find the real path that the symbolic needs from that19:54
+perlDreamerI don't know how to report it to the debian package maintainer, but he does show up in channel every so often.19:54
+perlDreamerthere must be a contact email or something in the .deb?19:55
fxkI found his e-mail address and will shoot him a note19:55
+perlDreamerErnesto is a nice guy19:55
fxkpretty sure he will want to know19:55
fxkabout this19:55
+perlDreameroh yeah19:56
+perlDreamerand many other WebGUI Debian package users, too19:56
* perlDreamer heads to other office #120:10
+perlDreamerbe back in 20 or so20:10
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+perlDreamerHaarg, any releases this week?20:52
* perlDreamer is scared of causing more muckery20:52
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* perlDreamer goes running, then do the dentist21:20
+perlDreamerbe back much later this afternoon21:20
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elninohi.  just wondering if there is a manual way to do the ./wreconsole.pl step when installing wre.22:15
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CIA-19WebGUI: arjan * r9227 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt www/extras/ukplayer/slideShow.swf): fixed #9264: new slideShow.swf uploaded in extras/ukplayer (United Knowledge/Arjan Widlak)01:54
CIA-19WebGUI: colin * r9228 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 01:54
CIA-19WebGUI: Fix a bug where default PayDrivers have two labels, one in the db, and one01:54
CIA-19WebGUI: in the JSON. The one in the db is not used anywhere in the system. Remove01:54
CIA-19WebGUI: it, and upgrade existing drivers to place their labels into the JSON. Updated01:54
CIA-19WebGUI: tests as well.01:54
daviddelikatperlDreamer perlmonkey2: I'm back!01:55
+perlDreamerhow is the 7.5 WRE setup coming?01:55
daviddelikatI'm still trying to get this 7.5 backport thing going01:55
daviddelikathard to tell01:56
daviddelikatI got my vm reverted, pm2 said he dup'd the whole data directory, so I was going to go all the way and I need to know what versipon of wre to put in the 7.5 copy01:57
daviddelikatcan i just copy wre from my beta data dir?01:57
daviddelikator do i need to checkout a different version?01:57
+perlDreamerI think you can use the same WRE01:58
daviddelikatdo i need to add a domain directory or is that created by the addsite script?01:58
+perlDreameryou probably need to setup a basic one02:00
+perlDreamerI don't know if the WRE will make that for you or not02:00
+perlDreamerthere's an easy way to find out :)02:00
daviddelikatyeah thats what im working on  ... 02:01
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