WebGUI irc logs from: 2008-06.log

--- Log opened Sun Jun 01 00:00:07 2008
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CIA-6	WebGUI: jt * r6545 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (Search/Index.pm Shop/Transaction.pm Asset/Sku.pm): some minor enhancements	00:19
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Samus_Aran	thanks all, be back later	01:07
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perlDreamer	is pb.com down?	18:42
perlDreamer	I can't get to webgui.org, or talk to the svn server	18:43
nuba	oops	18:49
perlDreamer	when JT says feature freeze, he _means_ feature freeze!	18:51
perlDreamer	No new code will be committed!	18:51
perlDreamer	time to hack the laptop. A friend of my son jumped on it, and now the LCD bezel isn't rotating smoothly.	18:52
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+Radix_	webgui.org dead?	23:10
+MrHairgrease	seems so	23:10
+Radix_	hey martin	23:10
+MrHairgrease	ah	23:11
+MrHairgrease	http://plainblack.com/index.html	23:11
+MrHairgrease	hey jesse	23:11
+MrHairgrease	how are you	23:11
+Radix_	I'm good.. about to head off to bed actually :)	23:12
+MrHairgrease	huh	23:12
+Radix_	4am here	23:12
+MrHairgrease	where are you then?	23:12
+MrHairgrease	ah	23:12
+MrHairgrease	i see	23:12
+MrHairgrease	you've been partying?	23:13
+Radix_	drank too much coke at the party tonight, so it kept me awake	23:13
+Radix_	yeah	23:13
+MrHairgrease	coke?	23:13
+MrHairgrease	i see it's time you came to the Netherlands again	23:13
+Radix_	I don't drink tea or coffee at all.. and dont drink soft drink really except at parties	23:13
+MrHairgrease	lot's of coffee here	23:13
+MrHairgrease	and beer at parties	23:13
+Radix_	so when I drink coca cola the caffeine hits me and i'm generally awake until late ;)	23:14
+MrHairgrease	heh	23:14
+MrHairgrease	I almost never drink coke	23:14
+MrHairgrease	sometime I'll buy a can or so	23:14
+MrHairgrease	but then again, i don't have any problems sleeping	23:14
+MrHairgrease	anyway, good night	23:15
+MrHairgrease	and say hello to the dutch guy with the weird name foe me	23:15
+MrHairgrease	for*	23:15
+Radix_	heh	23:15
+Radix_	He's back in holland now actually	23:15
+Radix_	left the company just before christmas	23:16
+MrHairgrease	what was his name again?	23:17
+MrHairgrease	i forgot	23:17
+Radix_	Gooitzen	23:17
+MrHairgrease	oh yeah	23:17
+Radix_	anyhow.. i really should head off to bed.. nite ;)	23:19
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--- Day changed Mon Jun 02 2008
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@perlmonkey2	is there a specific place I need to put the templates used in the new survey, or should they just go in the sql upgrade? And where do I put the logic for upgrading old surveys to the new version?	01:33
+MrHairgrease	put the templates in a packe	01:34
+MrHairgrease	package*	01:34
+MrHairgrease	and put that in docs/upgrades/packages-76.5.11	01:34
+MrHairgrease	7.5.11	01:34
+MrHairgrease	the logic goes into the upgrade-7.5.10-7.5.11 file in docs/upgrades	01:35
@perlmonkey2	the packages look like binaries?	01:37
@preaction	they are binaries	01:37
@preaction	they're tarred	01:37
@preaction	use the webgui interface to make the packages	01:38
@perlmonkey2	oay	01:38
@perlmonkey2	k	01:38
@preaction	they're JSON hashes, which are tarred (and maybe gzipped)	01:38
@perlmonkey2	the db schema I put into the beta will be unchangeable until the next beta, right?	01:39
@preaction	see lib/WebGUI/AssetPackage for more info. and for a future addition you might want to override the importAssetData and exportAssetData routines to add collateral data	01:39
@preaction	db schema is not an API, so you can change it, add to it, whatever	01:39
@perlmonkey2	k	01:39
@preaction	(rather, it's not covered by the API freeze, but it is kinda an api)	01:39
@apeiron	preaction, I would argue that the API hides the DB.	01:39
@apeiron	Ideally, there shouldn't be any SQL in anything but a few modules.	01:40
@preaction	eh. my opinion is there are four APIs, the module API, the DB, the URL, and the templates	01:40
@apeiron	bleh. That promotes SQL to the status of 'programming language'.	01:40
@preaction	the idea is that anything you can't specifically prevent, you have to plan for	01:41
* apeiron kicks it to the curb		01:41
@preaction	no. it just means that changing the data in the database is possible outside of the module API	01:41
@preaction	it's just not a good idea	01:41
@perlmonkey2	so as long as the publicly (www_) avaialable methods don't change input and returns, anything goes?	01:43
@preaction	no. all the module API has to remain backwards-compatible	01:43
@preaction	so getSurveyQuestion or whatever you have going for those	01:43
@preaction	www_ methods don't usually get called with arguments, but if they have them, they're covered too	01:44
@perlmonkey2	GET and POST don't count as part of the API/	01:45
@perlmonkey2	?	01:45
+MrHairgrease	well, technically assets are not covered by the API freeze	01:45
+MrHairgrease	since their only plugins	01:45
@preaction	ah, that too	01:45
+MrHairgrease	only Asset.pm and Wobject.pm are	01:45
@preaction	you don't really have to worry, assets aren't under freeze	01:46
+MrHairgrease	since they provide the framework for most assets	01:46
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@perlmonkey2	oh man, so as sucky as it is that I don't have the survey absolutely perfect, it isn't the end of the world and I'll still have a bit of time to wrap it up.	02:04
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metanil	is there any AJAX library available in webgui?	02:19
@preaction	YUI connection	02:20
@preaction	www/extras/yui/build/connection/	02:20
metanil	is webgui.org is working for you guys.. both plainblack and webgui.org is not working .. (at least from my machine)	02:22
@preaction	did you read the message?	02:23
metanil	i have to wait then. :(	02:24
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@preaction	if you don't see a message than your DNS is old. we're having data center problems	02:24
metanil	oh!	02:25
@preaction	well, plainblack.com shows the message. webgui.org is pointing to a dead IP, and I don't want to go through and change everything on our nameserver to point to the message	02:26
+MrAfkGrease	good luck with the colo trouble	02:34
+MrAfkGrease	I'm heading off	02:34
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metanil	preaction: is that the yahoo user interface?	03:57
@preaction	metanil, yes.	04:13
metanil	i can see its providing its own object like menu, btton, autocomplete	04:15
metanil	(i know this question doesn't belongs to here).. is there anyway to do simple AJAX request/receive using YUI (if there's any)	04:16
@preaction	yes, YUI Connection, exactly where i told you it was. look at the YUI documentation, look for the Connection module	04:18
@perlmonkey2	metanil: YUI offers several ways to do ajax, all of them simple and wrapped in a nice event handler.	04:26
metanil	thanks preaction... awesome.. this is what i need http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/examples/connection/get.html	04:27
metanil	at least to start with	04:27
metanil	thanks again	04:27
metanil	:)	04:27
metanil	perlmonkey2: Indeed indeed.. i am looking at it.. too easy... woot!!!	04:29
@perlmonkey2	if there is a web interface to create packages, I haven't been able to find it.	04:31
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@perlmonkey2	Hmm, why wouldn't I put the templates in the upgrades/templates folder? Is it the normal way to add a new package?	04:38
metanil	i created an asset, now i want that asset to include some javascript, ( i can do it manually going through template page).. but i want to do it in general way	04:55
metanil	oops.. let me backup that question.	04:58
metanil	( i shouldn't be asking that question) :D	04:59
Radix__	Anyone know if the plainblack.com/webgui.org datacenter fire is related to ThePlanet datacenter explosion?	05:11
Radix__	http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/01/1715247&from=rss	05:12
SDuensin	Data center fire?!	05:19
SDuensin	Egads.	05:20
patspam	ouch	05:20
metanil	oops	05:49
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perlDreamer	any further updates about the data center yet?	06:19
@apeiron	perlDreamer, http://forums.theplanet.com/index.php?showtopic=90185&st=0	06:25
@apeiron	perlDreamer, Note, it's been Slashdotted, so may be slow.	06:25
perlDreamer	yeah, it's slow	06:25
perlDreamer	If there's anything I can do to help you guys, please let me know	06:26
@apeiron	perlDreamer, Not that I can think of, unfortunately. Nothing PB can do either.	06:27
perlDreamer	I'll pray.	06:36
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perlDreamer	and I'll write tests	06:46
perlDreamer	I do that when I'm nervous	06:46
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-!- apeiron changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.35-stable / 7.5.10-beta \| WRE 0.8.3 ] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org \| Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com/ \| Find JT and PB at YAPC::NA, buy tickets now! http://conferences.mongueurs.net/yn2008 \| Datacenter status: http://forums.theplanet.com/index.php?showtopic=90185&st=20 Be patient, it's been Slashdotted.		07:05
perlDreamer	okay, I need some WebGUI help with the new version control settings	07:09
perlDreamer	anyone still awake?	07:09
@apeiron	I am, but not sure how helpful I'll be in that regard as I'm not intimately familiar with that particular bit of wG.	07:13
perlDreamer	well, this would be easier if I could show you the code and test	07:13
perlDreamer	but basically, it's the product import subroutine (Shop::Products::importProducts)	07:14
perlDreamer	if it's tries to import a product that is locked, it skips it	07:14
@apeiron	I have a somewhat recent SVN checkout, will take a look.	07:14
perlDreamer	so in my test, I put a product with two variants.	07:14
perlDreamer	I _thought_ with autocommit turned on, that addChild would autocommit the asset, leaving it available for the next variant to be added.	07:15
perlDreamer	but the product appears to be locked	07:15
perlDreamer	and I don't know why	07:15
perlDreamer	and during my test script, it complains that it can't talk to spectre	07:15
@apeiron	Maybe you need to $asset->commit it?	07:16
perlDreamer	I'll try it	07:29
perlDreamer	that did it!	07:30
perlDreamer	apeiron: you rock!	07:31
perlDreamer	well, the good news is that importProducts is now tested and works	07:37
perlDreamer	the bad news is that y'all just have to take my word for it for a little while	07:37
perlDreamer	and this is undoubtedly the best reason I've heard for distributed version control	07:37
patspam	yeah seems like every man and his dog is using git now	07:40
@apeiron	perlDreamer, I don't rock, my ability to guess luckily rocks.	07:40
@apeiron	patspam, heh	07:40
@apeiron	patspam, There's that and the fact that developing an SCM has been a fad for the last few years.	07:40
patspam	heh yeah true	07:40
@apeiron	svn, svk, arch, darc, mercurial, clearcase, monotone, git	07:41
@apeiron	etc.	07:41
@apeiron	I probably missed a few.	07:41
patspam	someone did a git demo at my perlmongers meeting, looked pretty cool, but a bit of a mind-shift	07:41
@apeiron	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_revision_control_software	07:41
perlDreamer	new update from The Planet	07:41
@apeiron	Heh. I refreshed it then tabbed here.	07:42
perlDreamer	The second floor may be online tomorrow, but the first floor is really screwed	07:42
@apeiron	No, I do not know where wG's machines are.	07:42
perlDreamer	apeiron: regarding guessing. There's no way to tell between lucky guesses and strong intuition.	07:44
@apeiron	perlDreamer, True. I saw that an asset (a SKU or such, it was shop related) in Asset.t was using ->commit,.	07:44
@apeiron	So I figured I'd hazard a guess.	07:45
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@preaction	WAHOO DUSK IS BACK	12:09
BartJol	mmm strange that the servers go down when JT's on holiday, coincidence?	12:19
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@preaction	BartJol, i don't believe in coincidences. it's his pure STRENGTH OF WILL that keeps the servers in line.	12:22
@preaction	they just don't Fear me enough...	12:22
@preaction	but it's now 4:30am and I haven't slept well in days... so maybe I can get in a few hours before I have to figure out what we can do with Dusk but without www.plainblack.com and our shared hosting server... :p	12:23
BartJol	good luck	12:23
BartJol	and sleep wel preaction	12:23
@preaction	had a good idea: move files to another server in case dusk goes back down!	12:23
BartJol	backups are alwaus good	12:24
@preaction	dusk is the backup server. the problem was it went down ;P	12:26
BartJol	ah, didn't know that	12:27
@preaction	anyway. maybe sleep. hope the other side of the pond is less interesting ;-)	12:28
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ckotil	did JT pass by the datacenter on his way out?	16:13
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BartJol	ckotil, it's the other way around preaction told me, the servers neeed JT's karma aura	16:21
ckotil	yeah	16:22
* ckotil jokes		16:22
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Radix__	no, they need JT's "fear of god" presence to keep in line.	16:35
BartJol	well karma or fear aura, JT should have left some more with Graham	16:44
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SDuensin	Morning!	16:54
BartJol	webgui.org is up!	17:10
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perlDreamer	should I be worried that the Poll on webgui.org is showing data that is one week old?	17:55
@tavisto	gah	17:57
perlDreamer	note, there's a smaller version of the planet forum page: http://forums.theplanet.com/lofiversion/index.php/t90185.html	17:59
BartJol	mm lot of things going up in smoke lately	18:06
BartJol	the faculty of architectre in Delft too	18:06
BartJol	perlDreamer, how's you back?	18:07
-!- apeiron changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.35-stable / 7.5.10-beta \| WRE 0.8.3 ] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org \| Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com/ \| Find JT and PB at YAPC::NA, buy tickets now! http://conferences.mongueurs.net/yn2008 \| Datacenter status: http://forums.theplanet.com/lofiversion/index.php/t90185.html Be patient, it's been Slashdotted.		18:10
@apeiron	perlDreamer++ Thanks. :)	18:10
perlDreamer	BartJol: better but healing.	18:11
BartJol	well, take it easy then	18:11
perlDreamer	But I can pick up my kids, sleep at night and do the necessary home maintenance	18:11
perlDreamer	so I'm not complaining :)	18:11
BartJol	and write tests	18:12
BartJol	?	18:12
perlDreamer	oh yes, test writing and Shop hacking	18:14
BartJol	ok, then you should be ok :)	18:15
nuba	whoa, hot stuff @ theplanet, huh?	18:23
@apeiron	Yes indeed.	18:24
perlDreamer	nothing like an electrical explosion to warm things up	18:24
nuba	yeah. i was reading the other day about how data centers, and the internet, in general, contributes to global warming	18:27
nuba	i guess it can be said this one contributes a little more than the rest	18:28
nuba	http://green-broadband.blogspot.com/2008/05/excellent-report-on-internet-data.html	18:29
perlDreamer	brb	18:30
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topsub	hello, i have a question about the security, how can you have someone able to edit and add new assets under lets say a folder?	19:25
topsub	we have a folder called "pdfs" and we created a group for these users who we want to do this but we dont' want them to be able to mess with the asset tree and such	19:25
perlDreamer	topsub: you have to find a way to make sure that 1) they can add files to the folder, but 2) aren't allowed to turn on admin	19:27
perlDreamer	I think you can modify the default Folder template to accomodate that	19:27
topsub	hmm	19:28
topsub	on the folder i said "who can edit" publication editor" ( name of the group i created for these users )	19:28
topsub	so they can edit any pdfs fine. but not able to add file assets to this folder. does that mean i need to beef up there group or something?	19:29
perlDreamer	topsub: I'm guessing that the template, and not the perl code, is stopping your users from adding folders.	19:33
topsub	ah	19:33
topsub	hmm maybe not because when i go to add a file asset it saying permission denied	19:34
topsub	i have an interface that creates my URL for me	19:35
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topsub	I believe i just need to figure out what says who can add assets and what says they can edit	19:37
topsub	they have a drop down list for edit files but not for adding files under the asset	19:37
topsub	hmm if i add the user to "Secondary Admins" they are not able to add assets.	19:39
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perlDreamer	topsub: try adding your "publication editor" group to the Asset Add Privileges section in the WebGUI config file. Then restart apache and see how you fare.	20:14
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+MrHairgrease	hey, pb.com is back	22:54
@preaction	a neutered version, but the real frozen is back so we'll be switching back over shortly	22:58
@preaction	so then we'll have SVN and all our other services back	22:58
@tavisto	doug, I told you putting that slip n' slide in the server room was a bad idea...	23:13
@preaction	tavisto, not my fault you got too drunk to slip n' slide and you started run n' ram instead	23:15
@tavisto	those transformers were talking smack	23:16
@preaction	i still have no idea how that thing exploded after you spilled your martini on it. i mean wow	23:16
@tavisto	now give me my bottle back	23:16
@preaction	you can get your bottle back after you pry the pieces out of the building next door	23:16
@tavisto	too much work.. time for www.beerdelivered.com	23:16
+MrHairgrease	did I hear beer?	23:17
+MrHairgrease	good idea!	23:17
@tavisto	damn, was hoping that service and website existed...	23:17
@preaction	don't click, it's not real	23:17
@tavisto	unfortunately it doesn't... (atleast at that URL)	23:17
@preaction	you got my hopes up... prepare to die!	23:17
@apeiron	bah, squatter	23:17
@tavisto	nooooooo!	23:17
@apeiron	preaction, 3, 2, 1, sudo ping -f!	23:17
@apeiron	tavisto, You have no chance to survive, make your Freenode cloak.	23:18
@tavisto	wait a minute.. there's hope!	23:18
@preaction	H4X0R H15 G1B53N!	23:18
@tavisto	www.beerrightnow.com	23:18
@tavisto	although, if MrHairGrease goes there then you can kiss productivity goodbye	23:18
@tavisto	for a week.	23:18
* MrHairgrease already has beer right now		23:19
+MrHairgrease	how does that hamper your productivity	23:19
+MrHairgrease	for a week	23:19
@tavisto	it doesn't when you only have 1, or 5	23:19
+MrHairgrease	i still don't get the connection	23:20
+MrHairgrease	now if you were to go with me	23:20
+MrHairgrease	that's a different story...	23:20
@tavisto	I'm saying that you consume a lot of beer already, and if it was delivered to your door... you wouldn't be sober enough to code :)	23:22
+MrHairgrease	i don't drink that much at home	23:23
+MrHairgrease	i just imply that to keep up the eurotrash appeal	23:23
+MrHairgrease	=)	23:23
perlDreamer	No, he only drinks at the office	23:24
@tavisto	hehe well that's good because drinking at home alone is a great indication that one is an alcoholic	23:24
perlDreamer	that way it doesn't interfere with his coding	23:24
@tavisto	I should say binge drinking alone at home	23:24
+MrHairgrease	so you're saying you can only be an alcoholic when you have a binge at home? =)	23:26
@tavisto	uh no..	23:26
* MrHairgrease tries very hard to not understand tavis, just to mess with him		23:27
@tavisto	dont make me come over there..	23:27
+MrHairgrease	wat du fak!?!?	23:28
@tavisto	:)	23:28
+MrHairgrease	i hope the railroad union will also be in madison in the end of august	23:28
+MrHairgrease	I'll forever associate the wuc with guys wearing denim form head to toe...	23:29
@tavisto	oh dear god	23:31
@tavisto	I have to say that guy was entertaining.. I honestly think you guys just come to the WUC for the stories.	23:31
+MrHairgrease	are there other reasons to go?	23:32
+MrHairgrease	I better know so I can warn the other 12 Dutch people coming along	23:33
perlDreamer	It's always cool to see Frank drunk, or hung-over.	23:33
+MrHairgrease	or hear jt ask him through the phone " Frank, why are you still alive?"	23:34
+MrHairgrease	=)	23:34
@tavisto	hehe Frank the Tank is my hero.	23:34
+MrHairgrease	mine too	23:34
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+MrHairgrease	yay, there a thunderstorm right in front of my window	23:37
+MrHairgrease	pretty cool sight	23:37
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perlDreamer	tavis, you business-type yayhoo	23:51
perlDreamer	it's taken me two days to register for OSCON as an attender	23:51
perlDreamer	actually, it's not your fault	23:51
perlDreamer	It's O'Reilly	23:51
perlDreamer	They're not using the EMS, so they're system will only let you have one kind of ticket	23:52
perlDreamer	Once I was entered in as an exhibitor, then I couldn't also register for the conference	23:52
perlDreamer	unless y'all paid for it	23:52
+MrHairgrease	talking about business yayhoos	23:53
+MrHairgrease	tavis, when is the oqapi success thingy ghoing to be placed?	23:54
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--- Day changed Tue Jun 03 2008
perlDreamer	WebGUI, this is Houston. You are cleared for SVN.	00:01
@preaction	Roger, Houston. Confirmed Go for SVN.	00:01
+MrHairgrease	houston, has a problem	00:03
+MrHairgrease	webgui.org goes to plainblack.com	00:04
+MrHairgrease	www.webgui.org works ok btw	00:04
@preaction	dns propagation probably. we had to hijack the real records to put up the outage message, and then put up the clone of frozen	00:05
+MrHairgrease	ok	00:06
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perlDreamer	nice tests, apeiron	00:33
perlDreamer	Where do they get cleaned up at the end of the test?	00:33
@apeiron	Where, in Asset.t?	00:34
perlDreamer	yeah	00:34
@apeiron	They're under a version tag, $versionTag4 .	00:34
perlDreamer	I see	00:34
perlDreamer	I'm used to seeing the versionTag getting commited	00:34
@apeiron	hrm. That was an omission on my part--is there any reason to commit it specifically?	00:35
perlDreamer	I don't think so, although sometimes addChild will puke on a parent in the wrong state	00:36
@apeiron	The tests run, pass, and leave a pristine asset tree afterwards, if those are your concerns.	00:36
@apeiron	ah.	00:36
perlDreamer	but that was before the commit change	00:36
perlDreamer	WebGUI, this is Houston. We confirm reception of SVN data.	00:47
perlDreamer	It's good that you're back online.	00:47
perlDreamer	is pb.com email working?	00:51
@tavisto	yeah	01:01
@tavisto	we have a separate mail solution not hosted at the planet	01:01
@tavisto	MrHairGrease, do you know if existing products will be migrated into the new e-commerce engine in 7.5.11?	01:02
perlDreamer	tavisto: They will.	01:03
perlDreamer	it works now	01:03
perlDreamer	I used one of Tiffany's stores to test it out :)	01:03
@tavisto	seriously?	01:03
perlDreamer	yeah	01:03
perlDreamer	I emailed her, and she said sure	01:03
perlDreamer	so I got a dump of her db	01:03
perlDreamer	and practiced upgrading	01:03
@tavisto	oh okay	01:03
@tavisto	how did it go?!	01:03
perlDreamer	Clean.	01:03
perlDreamer	very nice	01:03
@tavisto	wow	01:03
@tavisto	that makes me feel good considering I'm probably going to have to do that for amla	01:04
@tavisto	how about the templates used in the checkout.. are there a ton of new ones now?	01:04
perlDreamer	you'll need to ask rizen about that	01:04
@apeiron	No, Tavis, it worked for pd because he applied special pd magic.	01:04
@apeiron	You'll have to slog through it.	01:04
perlDreamer	but, if he was as thorough as he had me do, then it should end up being just fine	01:05
@apeiron	perlDreamer, btw I did receive your email, looking at it now	01:05
@tavisto	What the hell... Chris are you still here? I thought Kaleb fired you already	01:05
perlDreamer	okay, I am a notorious kibitzer so tell me to jump in a hole if I'm out of line.	01:05
@tavisto	you were a bad gopher!	01:06
perlDreamer	Fine, I'll go talk with Isaac and Julie then. Maybe Captain Stubing will let me steer the ship for a while.	01:07
@apeiron	pfft	01:07
@apeiron	perlDreamer++	01:07
@apeiron	perlDreamer, karma tavisto	01:07
@apeiron	er	01:07
@apeiron	perlbot, karma tavisto	01:07
perlbot	tavisto doesn't have any karma	01:07
+MrHairgrease	perlbot karma perldreamer	01:10
perlbot	Karma for perldreamer: 26	01:10
+MrHairgrease	perlbot karma mrhairgrease	01:11
perlbot	Karma for mrhairgrease: 3	01:11
+MrHairgrease	hmmm	01:11
+MrHairgrease	perlbot karma rizen	01:11
perlbot	Karma for rizen: 3	01:11
+MrHairgrease	haha	01:11
+MrHairgrease	it seems i'm not doing too bad after all	01:11
@apeiron	perlbot, karma preaction	01:11
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perlbot	Karma for preaction: 19	01:11
@apeiron	.. heh	01:11
@apeiron	perlbot, karma apeiron	01:11
perlbot	Karma for apeiron: 68	01:11
@apeiron	<3	01:11
perlDreamer	apeiron: tavisto has no karma	01:14
perlDreamer	He is a karma sinkhole	01:15
@apeiron	tavisto-- # now he's not	01:15
@tavisto	rizen only has 3 karma so I dont feel bad	01:16
@apeiron	You have -1.	01:16
@tavisto	how the crap do you earn karma in here	01:16
@tavisto	and if Chris has it then I dont want it	01:16
perlDreamer	karma is awarded by others for doing cool things	01:16
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perlDreamer	obviously, apeiron is cooler than thee	01:16
@tavisto	must be earned by driving around in a kidnapper van offering candy to neighborhood kids	01:17
@tavisto	shame on you apeiron	01:17
@apeiron	What? pfft. I'm lazy. I'd sooner just offer it Halloween style.	01:17
perlDreamer	preaction: that is some nasty i18n namespace	01:19
CIA-6	WebGUI: doug * r6546 /WebGUI/ (13 files in 8 dirs):	01:21
CIA-6	WebGUI: added: Two new approval activities, byLineage and byCommitterGroup	01:21
CIA-6	WebGUI: added: Show a message to users when they log in	01:21
CIA-6	WebGUI: fixed: Gallery search form doesn't work right in IE6	01:21
CIA-6	WebGUI: fixed: Minor bug in new gallery approval handling	01:21
perlDreamer	https://sourceforge.net/community/cca08-badge?project_name=WebGUI&project_url=http://www.webgui.org/wg/contribute	01:28
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perlDreamer	Go nominate WebGUI	01:36
@apeiron	yay, login to nominate	01:36
@apeiron	Like I remember the sf.net userid I never use. =\	01:36
@apeiron	ick.	01:38
@apeiron	sf.net-- # requiring me to create an ID even after I logged in via OpenID... isn't that the entire point of OpenID?	01:38
perlDreamer	the things we do to promote WebGUI	01:39
perlDreamer	actually, wouldn't wG do the same thing?	01:42
perlDreamer	it might authenticate you remotely, but you still need a valid userId/account	01:42
@apeiron	Oh. Right.	01:44
@apeiron	I'm misremembering what OpenID is for.	01:44
@apeiron	"we're not an authentication layer!" and all that. Despite being exactly like one in every respect.	01:44
perlDreamer	well, it _would_ be nice if it made the account for you and prepopulated it with your openId creds/info	01:44
perlDreamer	cap10morgan: are you listening? :)	01:44
@apeiron	heh. But sf isn't that smart.	01:44
@apeiron	(which is why I never use SF, that and the fact that its SCMs are down more than they're up)	01:45
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cap10morgan	perlDreamer: heh	01:45
cap10morgan	i am now!	01:45
cap10morgan	apeiron: openid is an identification service, not authentication	01:45
perlDreamer	so for the wG openId plug-in, does it make you create an account after first login?	01:45
@apeiron	cap10morgan, Yeah, except for the fact that it looks and acts just like authentication in every way. :)	01:45
cap10morgan	auth is still handled by the thing you're trying to get yourself auth'd into	01:46
perlDreamer	cap10morgan: (asking ignorantly); What's the difference?	01:46
cap10morgan	apeiron, it's nearly always used in an authentication situation	01:46
cap10morgan	that's why	01:46
cap10morgan	perlDreamer: here's how it works...	01:46
@apeiron	"name and password" to me indicates "authentication".	01:46
cap10morgan	you go to a site, it asks you to login	01:46
cap10morgan	now, there's two things it's trying to check:	01:46
cap10morgan	1. you are who you say you are (identification)	01:46
cap10morgan	2. you're allowed to login and do stuff (authentication)	01:47
@apeiron	Heh. I've always heard 1 referred to as authentication.	01:47
@apeiron	And whether you're allowed to do things is authorization.	01:47
@apeiron	yay overloading terminology in related fields!	01:47
cap10morgan	apeiron: err, that's probably right	01:47
cap10morgan	:)	01:47
cap10morgan	yeah, that makes more sense given the words anyway	01:48
cap10morgan	far as i understood, openid was only authentication, not authorization (using the better terms)	01:48
cap10morgan	but are they claiming they are not authentication somewhere?	01:48
perlDreamer	cap10morgan: Does WebGUI have an "authorization" for login rights?	01:49
cap10morgan	the fact that you have an account, i would guess	01:50
cap10morgan	normally w/ openid, you still have to register your openid at a particular place before it grants you authorization	01:50
cap10morgan	(or be granted by the admin, or whatever the policy is for that site / service)	01:51
@apeiron	bleh. I know I've seen somewhere that a page said "we're not an authentication layer".	01:51
@apeiron	Trying to find such.	01:51
cap10morgan	they're not _authentication_	01:51
cap10morgan	d'oh!	01:51
cap10morgan	sorry, mixing my terms again	01:51
cap10morgan	hahahaha	01:51
cap10morgan	apeiron: let me know if you find it	01:51
perlDreamer	no, it makes sense now. I might have a VISA card saying I'm Donald Trump, but that doesn't work in an AMEX only store.	01:51
cap10morgan	yep	01:52
@apeiron	Despite the fact that it acts exactly like authentication, it's not. And that's confusing.	01:52
@apeiron	(when I say "it acts exactly like authentication", I mean strictly from the user perspective: enter your username and password)	01:53
cap10morgan	well, i think it _is_ authentication	01:53
cap10morgan	i'd be very surprised if they were claiming they weren't	01:54
@apeiron	heh	01:59
@apeiron	http://simonwillison.net/2007/Jan/10/account/	01:59
@apeiron	"Just treat it as an alternative to a traditional username and password and you can't go wrong."	02:00
@apeiron	.... well... obviously I have...	02:00
@apeiron	http://www.openid.org/ "Log into sites such as LiveJournal, [...]"	02:02
@apeiron	That's not helping the matter.	02:02
@apeiron	Hmm. Apparently OpenID 2.0 will let you log in.	02:07
@apeiron	... which, er, isn't that not the point of the original OpenID?	02:08
* apeiron is very confused. oO		02:08
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@preaction	openID 1.0 was just identification, not authentication. the system is only as strong as its weakest point	02:41
@preaction	and OpenID 1.0 was the weak point: Someone who professes to own THISURL made this post	02:41
@apeiron	heh	02:41
@apeiron	So in other words the OpenID developers basically created a system that was fail by design.	02:42
@preaction	not really, it wasn't design for authentication. it was just for the blogosphere	02:42
@preaction	but then YADIS came and OpenID became part of that and people wanted more, authentication, profiles, personal data exchange	02:43
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metanil	i need an idea.. i want to add additional information while creating files.. like author, description, DocumentID, RefID.. and other info as well.	04:08
@apeiron	File assets, yes?	04:08
metanil	would creating new asset similar to Asset::File is ok?	04:08
@apeiron	That's what I would suggest, yes, though perhaps the more experienced here may have a better idea.	04:09
metanil	hmm... (i am thinking of creating one then)..	04:10
@preaction	if you are, see about using 7.5. the Asset::File is easier to subclass in that one	04:15
patspam	is it just me or is webgui.org 50% faster post outage?	04:45
@preaction	just you. it's still the same box. maybe not too many people are using it	05:06
patspam	maybe it needed a day of rest?	05:11
@preaction	at my expense? that was selfish of it...	05:17
@preaction	i oughta teach it a lesson by making it blow up again	05:17
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perlDreamer	svn is down again?	06:54
@preaction	perlDreamer, possibly. graham is switching the temporary frozen back to the old frozen	06:58
perlDreamer	tough day	07:03
perlDreamer	my IRC password gets changed/rejected	07:03
perlDreamer	no SVN	07:03
perlDreamer	what happens next?	07:03
@preaction	svn server just isn't running, but i don't want to mess with it	07:04
@preaction	our datacenter explodes?	07:04
@preaction	that would suck	07:04
perlDreamer	ah	07:04
perlDreamer	already happened :)	07:04
@preaction	hmm... what else is there?	07:04
perlDreamer	tavisto shaves his head?	07:04
@preaction	good lord... the world would impode on itself	07:05
perlDreamer	frank and jt and chris and kaleb and steve and graham all quit?	07:05
@preaction	as long as i have vrby, i think we can manage	07:06
@preaction	they're albatrosses, weighing me down man	07:06
perlDreamer	it's hard to fly like an eagle, when you're stuck with albatrosses	07:07
@tavisto	what the	07:09
@tavisto	don't make me come down there	07:09
@preaction	who the?	07:09
perlDreamer	where the?	07:12
@preaction	HOW	07:12
perlDreamer	Something has really been bothering me for a while	07:14
perlDreamer	How does Hawkman fly in outer space, where there's no air?	07:14
@preaction	telekinesis	07:16
@preaction	solar wind	07:16
perlDreamer	bean burritos	07:16
@preaction	so lunar wind?	07:16
@preaction	i mean, it comes from where the sun don't shine	07:16
+Radix-wrk	you have wierd thoughts pd	07:18
@tavisto	wow I can't believe this hockey game... triple overtime now	07:19
@tavisto	preaction, I just got off a conference call with amla and we're going to push through the upgrade	07:19
@preaction	uh... huh? they're on 7.4.21?	07:20
+Radix-wrk	doesn't hockey have the concept of a tied game? or is this a grand final or something?	07:20
@tavisto	not in the playoffs	07:20
@tavisto	if Detroit wins... they win the stanley cup	07:20
perlDreamer	tavisto, if you're talking to 7.5, I think that would not be wise.	07:20
@preaction	i would agree with the wise Dreamer	07:21
perlDreamer	we'll be testing for at least another month, maybe longer due to this outage	07:21
@tavisto	wait a sec... are you saying	07:22
perlDreamer	7.5.11 is not ready for prime time yet	07:22
@preaction	if they have travelled past 7.4.21, they cannot go to 7.5.anything yet	07:22
@tavisto	oh dear God when does this end	07:22
perlDreamer	In July	07:23
@tavisto	they're already on the beta server	07:23
@tavisto	for PB	07:23
perlDreamer	that's fine, they're on 7.5.10	07:23
@tavisto	yeah	07:23
perlDreamer	It's just the commerce stuff, Shop	07:23
@tavisto	it's been working okay	07:23
@preaction	what's "push through the upgrade" then?	07:23
perlDreamer	7.5.10 will work fine	07:23
perlDreamer	yeah!	07:23
@tavisto	to 7.5.11	07:23
@preaction	when it's released, you mean?	07:23
@tavisto	yeah, june 12th	07:23
@tavisto	it's been applied right?	07:23
@tavisto	or has that been pushed back	07:24
@preaction	applied?	07:24
@tavisto	installed on beta	07:24
@preaction	no	07:24
@preaction	we don't install anything that isn't released	07:24
@tavisto	is 7.5.11 going on plain black's beta server on june 12th still?	07:24
perlDreamer	rizen doesn't even get back until the 12th, right?	07:24
@tavisto	Graham told me june 12th	07:25
@preaction	9th	07:25
perlDreamer	it will take longer than three days to 1) Finish up tests, 2) Fix currently broken tests 3) Do user level testing	07:25
@tavisto	I would be very happy if we decided to wait to install it on PB's beta server to a later date	07:25
@preaction	tavisto, that's probably correct, but that's Graham's pidgeon, so he's the authority there	07:25
@tavisto	well the plan is that on June 12th the upgrade will take place and then AMLA's current SQL reports and e-commerce process will break	07:26
@tavisto	AMLA will pay PB to fix the SQL report (the one you saw doug(	07:26
perlDreamer	tavisto, should you be talking about that on a public channel?	07:27
@tavisto	and then I'll be working with one of their peeps to fix/tweak/change the current e-commerce process into a working one with the new e-commerce system	07:27
@tavisto	I dont see why it matters	07:27
@tavisto	upgrade strategy needs feedback :)	07:28
@preaction	tavisto, this place is logged	07:28
@tavisto	okay?	07:28
@preaction	i dunno either	07:28
@tavisto	so are you guys telling me that you don't think this is going to	07:28
@tavisto	be a good idea to push thru with this upgrade... or do you think I should backup their site and jump to a VPS for 3 months	07:29
@preaction	i think it's a good idea to keep going with the upgrade, i just forgot what you meant	07:29
perlDreamer	I think the date needs to be pushed back. We haven't had SVN access for 3 days.	07:29
@preaction	as far as i'm concerned, the feature freeze is pushed back for the time being	07:30
@tavisto	are you guys going to voice that opinion then to Rizen/Graham?	07:30
perlDreamer	Haarg: We haven't had consistent SVN access for over 3 days. I think the release date needs to be pushed back.	07:30
@tavisto	hehe	07:30
@preaction	i'm going to be working on gallery bugs and the new asset manager until the release	07:30
@tavisto	LOL he's been quiet I know	07:30
perlDreamer	preaction: I have failing Gallery and Utility tests when I run the suite on my laptop	07:31
perlDreamer	did I already email that to you?	07:31
@preaction	perlDreamer, yeah, i'll be getting to that tomorrow if i'm not preempted by server problems or client problems	07:32
@preaction	maybe i'll have time to figure out why the hell the test server is dead	07:32
@tavisto	what the crap doug e fresh... making code with bugs? I thought you were better than that	07:32
@preaction	oh, did you want a login? i can make you one real quick	07:32
perlDreamer	gotta crash out. More hacking tomorrow.	07:33
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metanil	$asset->get('size'); will return the file size .. isn't it?	07:37
@preaction	get('assetSize') i think	07:39
@preaction	not just the file size, the size of the whole storage location. so it may not be 100% accurate	07:39
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BartJol	he preaction how are the rest of the servers doing, don't see the api or i18n yet? Just for curiosity, not to be a irritating person that keeps nagging...	11:58
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BartJol	is the one called bepo here?	12:49
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BartJol	still no bepo?	15:51
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SDuensin	Greetings.	16:13
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slickware	hey all	16:19
slickware	'morning	16:19
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BartJol	morning	16:25
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BartJol	no bepo yet?	16:49
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slickware	anyone here that can give some advice on a template issue I am having	18:57
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wgGuest16	what is the irc server for this channel? I'm connected through the java and I'd prefer to use my own client	20:56
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Giant81	I'm about to connect to the webinar, but I didn't receive the login info I thought I was supposed to	20:59
Giant81	can anyone here help me?	20:59
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bopbop	wgGuest16: https://na1.connect.acrobat.com/plainblack	21:09
bopbop	sorry, that was for wgGuest81	21:09
Giant81	no problems... thank you	21:10
Giant81	i'm connected now, but its pretty slow	21:10
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@apeiron	Giant81, This is irc.freenode.net in case you didn't know.	21:56
@preaction	you cannot escape freenode's influence on the FOSS world.	22:01
@preaction	SUBMIT	22:01
@preaction	SUBMIT	22:01
perlDreamer	I just want my password back.	22:01
perlDreamer	oh, and SVN	22:03
perlDreamer	maybe some money, too	22:03
perlDreamer	not much	22:03
perlDreamer	just a couple of 100K$	22:04
slickware	someone giving out money?	22:04
slickware	i'll take some	22:04
perlDreamer	and I want a picture of a "kitteh"	22:05
slickware	i'm not as greedy as perlDreamer though. like 50k$ is fine with me	22:05
slickware	kittehies we gots. www.slickware.net/kitteh.jpg	22:06
perlDreamer	ah, well how about a war kitteh?	22:18
ckotil	perlDreamer: the thging about SVN and passwords is, it will store your password in a plain text file in yur home dir.	22:19
perlDreamer	ckotil: freenode has changed my password without telling me	22:19
ckotil	thats no good.	22:19
perlDreamer	no	22:20
perlDreamer	how are things in the NOC?	22:20
ckotil	pretty good	22:21
ckotil	We're trying to put a huge flashing light in the NOC for when an alarm event happens	22:22
ckotil	but i doubt the service desk would go for that	22:22
slickware	GM is considering selling off the Hummer brand	22:22
ckotil	they're closing a few plants too	22:22
slickware	Mr. Wagoner, chief exec of GM, stated that this the possible sale of the Hummer line will also include the introduction of many new vehicles including the new sporty Teabag, the gas sipping Rimmer, the family friendly Menage' mini-van and the Chaps pick-up (with an open backside).	22:22
slickware	that made my day - I had to forward it along :-D	22:23
ckotil	heh	22:23
perlDreamer	ckotil: I recommend visiting a truck stop to get the light. You can get some sweet lookin' 12V replacement lights for trucks there.	22:28
perlDreamer	Get one that doubles as a signal/marker light and you can have two colors :)	22:29
perlDreamer	then, you can pick up/hack up a high current driver to handle the load of the light and enable the driver with a low current pin off of a parallel port.	22:30
ckotil	yeah, we would need about 8 colors	22:30
ckotil	yah, that would be awsome	22:30
slickware	hey all - I have a templating question that i've been headaching over all day	22:33
perlDreamer	okay	22:33
slickware	I'm the reject that's still hung up on v5.x so this is probably a stupid question	22:34
slickware	(trying to learn 7)	22:34
slickware	I've followed the community wiki on creating your own template/style	22:34
slickware	I created a /root/themes folder	22:34
slickware	but for some reason, it didn't show up the first time I created it. So I created another one, and now there is only one Themes folder, but it is telling me the path to it is /root/themes2	22:35
slickware	I can't see an other one to delete it, and now all the paths to the files IN that folder are incorrect	22:35
perlDreamer	slickware: do you have any pending version tags?	22:36
slickware	I turned off versioning - I hate it	22:36
slickware	haha	22:36
slickware	I basically run a single user webgui, so I don't want/need it	22:36
perlDreamer	well, here's the deal, you really do have two themes folders	22:37
slickware	i'm sure I do	22:37
perlDreamer	if you request a URL that is in use, WebGUI will change the URL so that it's unique	22:37
slickware	here's a second question then -	22:37
slickware	how can I fix the contents of the "new" folder so that their paths are correct? even if I try to access them at /themes2/images/name.jpg, they still don't work	22:38
slickware	is there some way to recursively re-populate the URLs for the contents of a folder?	22:38
perlDreamer	do you mean /root/themes2/images/name.jpg?	22:38
slickware	yeah	22:38
ckotil	you can recursively re populate urls via the batch edit.	22:39
slickware	or /root/themes2/themename/images/name.jpg	22:39
slickware	etc	22:39
perlDreamer	well, I would skirt the issue and try to find the original themes folder, using the Asset Manager search function	22:39
perlDreamer	and then move the stuff from themes2 into themes and get rid of themes	22:39
slickware	smart	22:39
slickware	a search only brings up the Themes folder with the themes2 path, however	22:40
perlDreamer	Are you familiar with SQL?	22:41
slickware	yes, but I'd prefer not playing with it	22:41
slickware	ckotil: how do you batch edit?	22:41
perlDreamer	this would just be a query	22:42
perlDreamer	SELECT assetId from assetData where url like '%themes%';	22:42
ckotil	slickware: ive never used version 5, but in 7 if you click 'More' in the asset manager you will be presented with the batch edit option	22:43
slickware	I am using 7	22:43
ckotil	ok cool	22:43
slickware	I was just stating that i'm used to 5	22:43
slickware	i'm assuming I want "edit branch"	22:44
perlDreamer	Yeah	22:44
ckotil	:x	22:44
slickware	no clue what my params should be though	22:44
ckotil	batch, branch	22:44
ckotil	yeah, its very tricky	22:44
slickware	specified base/parent URL?	22:44
ckotil	do you have a test instance?	22:44
slickware	I want to love v7... but it's so hard	22:44
slickware	haha	22:44
ckotil	you might play around with it on the demo server	22:44
slickware	this is basically a demo	22:44
slickware	it's my learn-to-use-it demo	22:45
nuba	shouldnt complain, at least its hard	22:46
slickware	I get enough emails for 80% off viagra, even if it wasn't hard, I wouldn't have an issue	22:47
nuba	lol	22:47
slickware	man I wish this had a description	22:47
slickware	i've managed to erase my path, then make it /root/root/root/themes, and now everything is on its own level	22:48
perlDreamer	slickware, what do you wish had a description?	22:48
slickware	none of which are correct	22:48
slickware	the branch-edit feature	22:48
perlDreamer	Have you tried the wiki?	22:48
perlDreamer	or are you talking about hover help for individual fields in there?	22:48
slickware	I think I got it	22:49
slickware	now everything appears to be appropriately labeled as root/themes2/foldernames	22:49
slickware	so now - when building a template, should my image paths be:	22:50
slickware	domain.com/themes2/theme/images	22:50
slickware	or	22:50
slickware	domain.com/home/themes2/theme/images ?	22:50
perlDreamer	neither	22:50
slickware	lol	22:50
slickware	ok	22:50
slickware	the wiki seems to imply the latter	22:50
perlDreamer	you just said the base url is /root/themes2	22:51
slickware	yes	22:51
slickware	which is where the wiki recommends putting your themes folder	22:51
perlDreamer	so, it would be /root/themes2/theme/images	22:51
slickware	so domain.com/root/themes2/etc...	22:51
perlDreamer	if that's where you put it	22:51
slickware	I thought you didn't actually have to name the 'root' folder	22:51
perlDreamer	it depends on what you set the URL to	22:51
perlDreamer	remember that URLs in WebGUI are not tied to hierarchy	22:52
slickware	I remember, frustratingly	22:52
perlDreamer	you can have a folder /here containing a second folder called /there	22:52
perlDreamer	both top level URLs, but different hierarchy	22:52
slickware	right	22:52
slickware	so I literally include the entire URL that I see in the asset manager	22:52
slickware	i'm going to edit that damn wiki later	22:53
slickware	it doesn't help that none of the graphics on it work anymore	22:53
slickware	oh fabulous it works... woo	22:55
perlDreamer	the asset manager doesn't show you URLs, it shows you hierarchy in the crumb trail	22:55
slickware	I know - but they are called URLs	22:55
Giant81	has anyone tried to install on ubuntu 8.04?	22:55
slickware	in the manager	22:55
Giant81	I tried the forums but didn't find anybody having problems	22:55
perlDreamer	preaction: I tried to use Manage from the editing toolbar and got an invalid operation.	22:56
slickware	giant81: i'm running 7.10 and didn't have issues using the WRE	22:56
Giant81	either that is a good thing and noone is having problems and it works... or noone is using it in which case there could be issues	22:57
Giant81	I need to download mysql and apache before I use the wre	22:57
perlDreamer	the wre has those in it	22:57
perlDreamer	already	22:57
slickware	yeah	22:58
Giant81	ahh ok	22:58
slickware	you can literally install ubuntu, do an apt-get update, and install the WRE	22:58
slickware	optionally installing something like webmin if you so desire	22:59
perlDreamer	and in Debian, you can apt-get install webgui	22:59
slickware	debian users have all the fun	22:59
slickware	last question before I go home	23:09
slickware	I've got an "^AdminBar;" tag in my template (without quotes), but no adminbar is showing up	23:09
slickware	all my other macros are ok	23:10
perlDreamer	do you have admin mode turned on?	23:12
slickware	yes (i'm not THAT bad)	23:12
slickware	does it need to be in a specific div tag or be associated with a specific css?	23:13
perlDreamer	I always ask for the low hanging fruit first, I don't mean to insult you.	23:13
slickware	I know - I was mostly joking - I can take it	23:13
perlDreamer	I don't think so. Is it in the page source and just not rendering right?	23:13
slickware	i'll check source	23:13
slickware	<script type="text/javascript">	23:14
slickware	//<![CDATA[	23:14
slickware	var slider = new createSlidePanelBar("WebGUIAdminBar");	23:14
slickware	var panel;	23:14
slickware	i'm assuming that means it's there, and not showing up right	23:14
perlDreamer	yeah, that looks right	23:14
perlDreamer	you must be having a markup clash	23:14
slickware	cool	23:14
slickware	I always liked the Clash	23:15
perlDreamer	yeah, my Perl::Critic policy is running!	23:15
slickware	any idea how to fix that clash?	23:17
perlDreamer	not really	23:17
slickware	heh	23:17
perlDreamer	my web design skills aren't very good.	23:18
perlDreamer	apeiron: I used Path::Class for the first time today and learned a valuable lesson.	23:21
@apeiron	perlDreamer, Hm?	23:21
perlDreamer	Not all modules stringify arguments before using them :/	23:21
* apeiron nods		23:22
perlDreamer	but a manual stringify fixed that	23:22
perlDreamer	surprisingly, Perl::Critic runs really fast when it can't find a specified config file :)	23:22
* apeiron snickers.		23:22
perlDreamer	and I'm ready to commit the new, correct-but-slow i18n test using Perl::Critic	23:23
@apeiron	Ah, does it use Path::Class?	23:23
perlDreamer	yes	23:23
slickware	I wish I knew/understood more about CSS... I prefer hard code any day	23:23
perlDreamer	my $label_profile = Path::Class::File->new( WebGUI::Test->root , 't', 'i18n', 'perlcriticrc'); Test::Perl::Critic->import(-profile => $label_profile->stringify);	23:23
@apeiron	perlDreamer, Very cool, I <3 it.	23:23
slickware	figured it out - you need the tmpl.var for the <head> to be there	23:24
slickware	I just assumed it was for something else and left it out	23:24
perlDreamer	it must preload a bunch of JS and style sheets	23:24
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slickware	ok, seriously last question. what happened to the "change all pages below to this style" option?	23:36
slickware	I want to change the template for my home page and all pages beneath	23:36
perlDreamer	that's in edit branch	23:37
slickware	ok	23:37
slickware	thought you used to be able to do it from the page-edit /display menu	23:37
perlDreamer	Yes, but then the function was generalized and expanded into Edit Branch	23:38
slickware	gotcha	23:39
@preaction	anyone familiar with the commerce Address Book know if the WebGUI::Shop::AddressBook::www_view method is supposed to always have a ?callback query param?	23:39
perlDreamer	sorry, that's a rizen question	23:41
perlDreamer	although it looks like all it does is set some hidden form vars	23:41
BartJol	or a MrHairgrease maybe	23:41
perlDreamer	No, AddressBook is Herr Rizen	23:41
@preaction	yeah, i was trying to help steve make a new template for that, but turns out you can only get to it from the cart	23:41
@preaction	he figured it out though, so no worries, just wondering if i found a problem	23:41
slickware	alright. Thanks everyone. hope the weather is as nice wherever you are as it is in Boston	23:42
slickware	enjoy your afternoons or properly adjusted world-time	23:42
perlDreamer	preaction: potentially a bug. I know he's been kicking it around for general purpose use beyond the Shop.	23:42
* slickware peaces out		23:42
perlDreamer	hack on, slickware	23:42
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BartJol	any idea when the api sit will be up again?	23:43
BartJol	or i18n?	23:43
perlDreamer	BartJol, the hosting company is continuing to have problems	23:43
perlDreamer	now with the temporary equipment failing	23:43
perlDreamer	I have the feeling it's going to be a while	23:43
BartJol	ok	23:43
perlDreamer	SVN is also down	23:44
BartJol	well, a fire is bound to have some impact on their facilities	23:45
perlDreamer	It blew up three walls in the facility	23:45
perlDreamer	PB.com go boom	23:45
perlDreamer	meanwhile, rizen is blissfully unaware on a cruise ship in the North Pacific	23:45
@preaction	we're getting frozen moved to another facility, so we'll hopefully have it soon	23:46
BartJol	Hopefully for him he's unaware	23:46
@preaction	soon being before christmas	23:46
perlDreamer	does frozen host all those functions?	23:46
BartJol	whoa	23:46
@preaction	yes	23:46
BartJol	we have some nice servers too	23:46
perlDreamer	Are they scheduled to blow up, too?	23:46
BartJol	yeah, but only when we host pb	23:47
BartJol	we had enough fires here lately	23:47
BartJol	4 in 1 month	23:48
perlDreamer	no way! You gotta be kidding!	23:48
BartJol	well, 2 in student houses, one in a hotel and one in the faculty of architecture	23:49
BartJol	the first 3 probably related by a pyromaniac	23:49
BartJol	last one not, that was a short circuit in a coffee machine	23:50
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Giant81	so webgui is in the repository for debian stable?	00:15
perlDreamer	it's in whatever Lenny is	00:15
perlDreamer	http://www.plainblack.com/tbb/webgui-going-into-debian-lenny	00:15
Giant81	then no... lenny is testing	00:16
BartJol	but will be stable in time if I understand correctly, but I couldn't find whether the wre installation is included or whether it is only WebGUI itself	00:24
perlDreamer	it's a little of both	00:24
perlDreamer	it includes dependencies on apache, mod_perl, mysql, and the perl modules	00:25
perlDreamer	but it doesn't build a website by default, yet	00:25
BartJol	well, most people won't need that	00:25
perlDreamer	we need SquOnk to give us a tutorial next time he's in here. maybe a wiki page or forum post	00:25
@preaction	it doesn't include the WRE itself, from what i know, squonk is building his own helper scripts for addsite and removesite and such	00:25
BartJol	would be a bit too much maybe	00:26
BartJol	yeah	00:26
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@preaction	i don't know if they're in lenny yet, i think he's waiting for lenny+1	00:26
BartJol	but if you use a shared webserver only for WebGUI, it probably would be wise to use the wre and install webgui with that?	00:27
@preaction	i still would, because of what the WRE provides	00:28
@preaction	the helper scripts	00:28
@preaction	update scripts	00:28
@preaction	the monitor	00:28
@preaction	the WRE console	00:28
BartJol	they're quite helpfull yes	00:29
@preaction	however, if you're just adding WebGUI to an existing installation (that happens to be on Debian), then "sudo apt-get install webgui" is nice to have	00:30
perlDreamer	Doesn't the WRE claim performance enhancements over your standard, vanilla distribution binaries as well?	00:30
perlDreamer	Stripped down and light-weight	00:30
@preaction	yeah. anything that isnt needed by webgui is removed	00:31
BartJol	I don't deny that, only want to know what way I should go	00:31
BartJol	when installing	00:31
@preaction	imho, for mainly WebGUI server, the WRE. if WebGUI is going to only be a small part, source will probably work fine	00:31
BartJol	well, we're trying to split those now we're going virtual server	00:33
@preaction	so resources are at a premium, i'd go WRE	00:34
BartJol	so we get a webgui-wre combination or something else what the client desires	00:34
@preaction	you'll probably end up tweaking some of the apache settings to keep resource consumption low (especially during idle times)	00:35
BartJol	when a server is dedicated to one WebGUI site, it is a decision whether you waant the build in functions of the wre, but is there a downside of using the wre, performance speaking?	00:37
@preaction	the WRE is tweaked for webgui performance. anything that isn't needed for webgui isn't compiled in. InnoDB in the mysql server, for example	00:38
@preaction	it shaves the memory overhead (which will probably be your bottleneck)	00:38
BartJol	Ok, so I should go into tweaking wre	00:38
BartJol	well	00:38
BartJol	I don't know, just interested, Koen is mostly busy with that kind of issues	00:39
@preaction	your limiting factor, rather. ("Growth is limited by that necessity that is available in the least amount")	00:39
perlDreamer	time	00:39
BartJol	beer?	00:40
@preaction	so 16G of memory in 2G chunks gives you 8 VPS on a box. If you can get away with 1.5G, you can add 3 more VPS on that box	00:40
BartJol	mine is empty	00:40
BartJol	it will depend on the circumstances I understand	00:41
BartJol	how surprising :)	00:41
@preaction	personally, i would go with some sort of clustered system with a NAS for storage, then divide the resources with a VM system. probably a rather large initial expense, but it would be virtually bulletproof	00:42
@preaction	make a clone / backup and put it in a different datacenter (preferably on the other side of the country), and you might be able to avoid just about any catastrophe short of Armageddon	00:42
BartJol	I'm not sure which storage we have for our virtual environment	00:43
* preaction amuses himself by thinking up server architecture		00:43
BartJol	we're working on that system with some nice hgardware	00:43
BartJol	but it goes a bit above m,y understanding	00:43
@apeiron	preaction++ # incidental prodding to finish reading Dune	00:44
BartJol	you can borrow mine	00:45
@preaction	apeiron, how did i do that?	00:45
@apeiron	preaction, <preaction> your limiting factor, rather. ("Growth is limited by that necessity that is available in the least amount")	00:45
BartJol	the first one that is	00:45
@apeiron	That's apparently a Frank Herbert quote.	00:45
BartJol	oh	00:45
BartJol	short memory	00:45
perlDreamer	will PB making changes due to the server snafu?	00:46
@preaction	apeiron, that's a basic law of environmental science, but yes	00:46
perlDreamer	geographic redundancy?	00:46
@preaction	perlDreamer, from what I hear from vrby, we'll be looking at an off-site storage location for backups	00:46
@preaction	the problem was that we couldn't survive both a server going down AND dusk (the current backup system) going down	00:46
@preaction	so with a second, redundant backup, we'll be better able to survive a catastrophe	00:47
perlDreamer	hm. Looks like there are still some false negatives in the Critic policy for labels	00:49
@apeiron	Better than false positives, I'd say, aye?	00:50
perlDreamer	May be some of those, too.	00:50
BartJol	they don't compensate each other?	00:51
perlDreamer	It's been running about 2.5 hours, and it's up to Form and contents	00:51
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perlDreamer	would it be sheer lunacy to try and space out the modules in sbin/testEnvironment.pl? so that modules, versions, and flags were columnar?	00:57
BartJol	I think everyone is baffled by the lunacy of your genius....	01:00
perlDreamer	must be	01:00
perlDreamer	I've been Warnocked!	01:01
BartJol	I don't have a clue what you're talking about...	01:01
perlDreamer	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warnock%27s_Dilemma	01:01
perlDreamer	perlbot: warnock is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warnock%27s_Dilemma	01:01
perlbot	added warnock to the database	01:01
BartJol	Ah, so I almost participate in the warnocking, but stating my ignorance is perventing it	01:03
perlDreamer	yes	01:06
perlDreamer	although, you didn't state whether or not you think it's a good idea or not, so you are Warnocking	01:06
BartJol	well, m,y cluelessness was actually referring to both Warnocking and columnising testEnvironment	01:07
BartJol	bed time for me	01:42
perlDreamer	'night	01:42
BartJol	thanks	01:42
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@apeiron	Wow, color shots from Phoenix on Mars: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/images/new-latest-images-collection_archive_1.html	01:57
@preaction	it's not red!	02:10
perlDreamer	it's not full of starts either	02:12
perlDreamer	um, stars	02:12
@preaction	that's one of Saturn's moon	02:12
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metanil	i saw this in session::form "A full set of form params just as you'd pass into any of the form controls when building it." . what does it mean?	02:38
metanil	what set of form params?	02:39
metanil	form parameters are the name itself, aren't they?	02:39
perlDreamer	they can also be things like defaults	02:40
perlDreamer	filter settings	02:40
perlDreamer	and so on	02:40
@preaction	basically the arguments you'd use to a WebGUI::Form::Control object	02:40
metanil	oh ok..	02:41
@preaction	most of the time you don't need them, it can DWYM, but sometimes you need other things, like to pre-select a storageId for a File control	02:41
@preaction	(so it doesn't create yet another one)	02:41
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metanil	sweet	02:42
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@khenn	I've been instructed to ask:	03:17
@khenn	who added the "cancelling commit" nonsense to WebGUI?	03:18
@preaction	cancelling commit? huh?	03:21
@khenn	I don't know, I got an email from JT blaming me for adding "cancelling commit" nonsense to WebGUI	03:25
@khenn	so I'm trying to figure out who did it	03:25
@preaction	i don't even know what it is.	03:26
@khenn	me either	03:26
@khenn	and I can't see svn	03:26
@khenn	so I don't know how he knows	03:26
@preaction	it must've gone in before	03:27
@preaction	or he keeps track of the RSS feed for commits	03:27
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@apeiron	khenn, Do you know which file(s) it's in?	03:58
@khenn	no	03:58
@khenn	all I got was "canelling commit" nonsense	03:58
@preaction	i changed some of how approval worked, but it was with his approval	04:00
@preaction	i'm not seeing anything in the API to cancel a commit	04:01
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perlDreamer	hey, all	06:19
@apeiron	Greetings!	06:20
perlDreamer	khenn, I'm afraid that I'm the person you're looking for	06:20
perlDreamer	cancelling commit is part of an RFE that I put in	06:20
perlDreamer	but rizen approved it	06:21
@preaction	where is it then? what is it?	06:21
@khenn	JT says to email him and explain yourself	06:21
@khenn	oh and you are supposed to undo it	06:21
perlDreamer	I can't undo it	06:21
perlDreamer	no SVN	06:21
@khenn	I guess I'd email him first if he approved it	06:21
perlDreamer	preaction, check out Operation/VersionTag, line 310	06:21
perlDreamer	It's part of a handling problems with spectre	06:22
@preaction	ahh	06:22
@preaction	cancel the commit if it can't reach spectre	06:22
perlDreamer	If you ask for a commit, and can't talk to spectre, then instead of leaving the tag in limbo, it just sets the tag back to pending	06:22
perlDreamer	yeah	06:22
perlDreamer	I'll email JT and take my lumps	06:22
@preaction	yeah, that's unnecessary now: everything happens in realtime until a certain number of seconds have passed	06:23
@preaction	eh, that changed only a little while ago, whereas you might've gotten approval before that	06:23
@preaction	so just a matter of crossed wires	06:23
perlDreamer	yeah, I'd suggest running svn blame, but that won't work either :)	06:23
perlDreamer	so why is it unnecessary now?	06:24
perlDreamer	If you can't talk to spectre, then why would you allow a commit to be processed?	06:24
@preaction	because Commit Without Approval has one activity. that one activity can be done in a few seconds, spectre will never know anything about it, since it'll be done in realtime	06:26
@preaction	all workflows are realtime until they take too long	06:26
perlDreamer	wow	06:27
perlDreamer	Okay	06:27
@apeiron	mmm	06:28
@apeiron	About the svn blame thing, would svk still work if offline?	06:28
perlDreamer	and what happens if it takes too long and spectre is down?	06:28
perlDreamer	apeiron, no idea	06:28
@apeiron	perlDreamer, heh, likewise	06:28
@preaction	perlDreamer, if it takes too long and spectre is down then it goes to spectre. but since spectre is an external process, you'd still want to keep the WorkflowInstance in the table until spectre returns	06:29
@preaction	i mean, that's my opinion of course	06:29
@preaction	a warning like "Unable to contact spectre, your commit may take longer than expected" would be nice	06:29
perlDreamer	but that would only be necessary if the defer takes place	06:30
perlDreamer	I know y'all submitted to have frozen moved, is there an estimate for when it will be done?	06:31
perlDreamer	I'll revert it right out of SVN after it's back up.	06:31
@apeiron	heh	06:31
@apeiron	I think we should make a plan to stagger our commits once frozen is back up. I'm sure we've all got some stuff we're itching to ci	06:31
perlDreamer	I think it's a good time for Haarg to teach us all git :)	06:32
@apeiron	nevar	06:32
@preaction	apparently i didn't submit the ticket correctly, since the instructions they gave were inconsistent with what i was seeing, so i had to resubmit the ticket	06:32
@apeiron	svk for lief!	06:32
@preaction	so now i don't know when	06:32
perlDreamer	email to JT away, I'm sorry if I caused you guys problems	06:35
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elnino	good evening! I'm just curious about the asset manager and the javascript webgui used from mattkruse, and was wondering what field in the db you use the store the ranking field for the assets listed in the asset manager?	07:23
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-!- test is now known as apeiron		07:28
@preaction	elnino, the ranking field is also the last 6 characters of the asset's lineage (located in the asset table)	07:37
elnino	ok that would explain why I couldn't find a ranking field in the db schema. Thanks!	07:37
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metanil	to get parent asset, will getLineage(["self","ancestors"],{returnObjects=>1}); do??	07:50
@preaction	metanil, $asset->getParent	07:51
metanil	and how to use ancestorLimit .. to return only parent (not grand parent)	07:51
@apeiron	You should be able to do ->getParent, no?	07:51
metanil	oh oh	07:51
metanil	sweet	07:51
metanil	:D	07:51
@preaction	you can theoretically go all the way up the stack that way	07:51
@apeiron	'theoretically'	07:51
@preaction	it's not recommended, since they're instanciated no matter what	07:52
metanil	even $asset->getParent?	07:52
@apeiron	Once is fine.	07:52
metanil	:)	07:52
@apeiron	But a dozen, probably not.	07:52
metanil	yeah.. thats what also think	07:54
metanil	how to create boolean template variable so that i can do <tmpl_if var_name>	07:58
metanil	can we do $vars{'var_name'} = 0 or 1	07:58
@apeiron	perlbot, tias	07:59
perlbot	Try It And See: the best way to learn if something works.	07:59
metanil	ok.. that'll also help :)	08:00
metanil	it worked	08:10
metanil	thanks.	08:10
metanil	do need to have any boolean kind of thing,, just checking the variable whether it was set in pm file or not	08:10
@preaction	it's perl's notion of truth	08:11
@preaction	perlbot false	08:11
perlbot	undef, 0, "", "0"	08:11
@preaction	perlbot true	08:11
perlbot	Anything that isn't false. see "false"	08:11
metanil	then i guess i learn a new thing in perl..	08:15
metanil	thanks guys..	08:15
metanil	time to take a nap	08:16
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@tavisto	perlbot is wonky	08:53
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@apeiron	perlbot perlbot	10:21
@apeiron	... what	10:21
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ckotil	haha. just got rick rolled on the phone!	16:19
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Giant81	I just installed a debian server named 'webgui' to use as my webgui server	17:25
Giant81	I installed wre and eveyrthing went fine	17:25
Giant81	I added a site and named it p1stest	17:25
Giant81	how do I access it?	17:25
slickware	heh	17:26
slickware	for now, you can access it by IP	17:26
Giant81	I tried p1stest.webgui.rph.int	17:26
slickware	http://ip.address.of.machine	17:26
Giant81	and I get "it works" by apache	17:26
slickware	otherwise, you need to set up some DNS	17:26
slickware	did you install apache on debian?	17:26
Giant81	I think webgui did it for me	17:27
slickware	right - but -	17:27
slickware	if you let debian install apache, it will run both the default apache AND the WRE apache	17:27
slickware	and you'll have issues	17:27
slickware	see if you can stop the apache service	17:27
Giant81	so I need to shutdown the non wre apache	17:27
slickware	yea	17:27
slickware	and give yourself a pat on the back for making it that far	17:28
slickware	haha	17:28
Giant81	wre is pretty easy to setup... most of the issues I had were getting vmware tools installed	17:28
slickware	if you have something like webmin installed, it'll be easy to tell if apache is on/running	17:30
Giant81	I went to /etc/init.d and did an apache stop	17:31
Giant81	and now I see nothing when I go to the IP... the wre and debian apache are seperate installs right?	17:32
BartJol	yeah	17:35
slickware	did you load the wreconsole and make sure everything is running in there?	17:36
Giant81	it was running before... let me double check	17:38
slickware	I had a weird issue where my services would stop when I stopped the console	17:38
BartJol	cool	17:38
Giant81	brilliant	17:38
Giant81	modproxy was not started.. though I'd seen it started before	17:38
slickware	heh... don't ask me to program... but I can get the Wre running	17:40
BartJol	well a macro is quickly written:	17:42
BartJol	package WebGUI::Macro::HelloWorld;	17:42
BartJol	use strict;	17:42
BartJol	sub process {	17:42
BartJol	return "Hallo gast";	17:42
BartJol	}	17:42
BartJol	1;	17:42
BartJol	my first baby	17:42
slickware	ha	17:55
slickware	so useful, thanks :)	17:55
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slickware	question for anyone there...	18:09
BartJol	I'm someone... I think	18:10
slickware	I've edited the styles on my entire site - only - when a user goes to log in, the admin?op=auth;method=login page still displays the old style	18:10
BartJol	user login style	18:11
slickware	how do I fix the style of that page?	18:11
BartJol	user function style i mean	18:11
BartJol	in the settings	18:11
slickware	is it a page template?	18:11
BartJol	it is a setting where you choose a template	18:11
slickware	oh ok	18:11
BartJol	it's in the tab UI	18:11
slickware	got it	18:12
slickware	next question: my rich edit doesn't seem to have any font-formatting buttons	18:12
slickware	is that normal (because the CSS controls everything?	18:12
BartJol	any? like no bold and italic too?	18:13
BartJol	normally most things are indeed controlled by css	18:13
BartJol	maybe those buttons exist if you maximise the rich edit features	18:14
BartJol	not sure	18:14
slickware	hmm	18:14
BartJol	import node->richedit->yourrichedit	18:14
BartJol	or whatever it's called	18:14
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slickware	I have bold and italic	18:15
BartJol	ok	18:15
slickware	but I don't have font or size	18:15
BartJol	I'll have a look	18:15
slickware	which I guess is probably a good thing, because then it all stays the same	18:15
slickware	but font size does seem like a strange thing to not have	18:16
BartJol	you can turn it on	18:17
BartJol	go to the asset manager	18:17
BartJol	click root->import node-> RichEdit	18:18
BartJol	there are 2 default editor settings	18:18
BartJol	just make a copy of the content mangers richedit	18:18
BartJol	edit the copy	18:18
BartJol	are you there yet?	18:19
slickware	sorry stepped away - lemme chec	18:20
Giant81	how do I get to make demo's with webgui after I install it? I've turned on the demo's under wre console	18:20
BartJol	sorry Giant81, never tried, wouldn't know	18:20
Giant81	kk ty	18:21
slickware	awesome	18:22
slickware	thanks bart	18:22
BartJol	no problem, given a presentation on the subject last year at the wuc, comes in handy right now :)	18:23
slickware	how is the WUC	18:23
BartJol	nice	18:23
slickware	i'm considering it this year	18:23
slickware	but i'm in Boston, so it's a haul	18:23
BartJol	Well, it's nearly as far as the netherlands	18:24
slickware	haha	18:24
slickware	touche'	18:24
slickware	there seems to be a huge netherlands/webgui thing	18:24
BartJol	yeah	18:24
BartJol	we like it as an excuse to show americans that we can drink more and better than them :)	18:25
BartJol	but serious, there are a couple of companies here that use WebGUI for a long time	18:25
BartJol	help develope, host it, give support, so we like some contact (and maybe influence) on the whole project	18:26
* Giant81 is from wisconsin		18:27
* Giant81 takes that challenge		18:27
* Radix_ is from Australia.		18:27
BartJol	so wuc next yera will be in the netherlands	18:27
slickware	wow	18:27
BartJol	Giant81 is bound to be at the wuc then	18:27
+Radix_	need more Aussies in here.. me and patspam seem to be it so far ;)	18:27
slickware	you guys definitely have better beer, i'm not surprised you can drink more	18:27
Giant81	if I can get my employer to pay for it... yes	18:28
Giant81	its right in town here in Madison	18:28
Giant81	but I don't have the money to go	18:28
slickware	how much is the conference itself?	18:28
+Radix_	US$500 from memory	18:28
Giant81	Wisconsin is nice, a very large German population with lots of micro breweries and good beer	18:29
Giant81	yeah	18:29
BartJol	atherwise it's somewhere on webgui.org/wuc	18:29
BartJol	yeah, the Essen Hause was cool	18:29
+Radix_	Giant81: you should write a talk/presentation for the WUC then - then you get in free I believe	18:29
slickware	hahaha	18:29
BartJol	Radix_ are you coming this year?	18:30
slickware	I would only talk about how I still like version 5x better than 7x :-D	18:30
BartJol	we missed you...	18:30
+Radix_	or perhaps offer your services to help out in setting things up, cleanup, etc perhaps? dunno	18:30
+Radix_	BartJol: wish I could, it sounds like this year is going to be big with all the new stuff in 7.5	18:30
BartJol	ah the "Be JT's slave for a weekend arrangement"	18:31
BartJol	sounds like a no	18:31
+Radix_	I've got to plan a big wedding for next year tho (Yumi and I are getting married) - so can't plan any big trips atm	18:31
BartJol	ah, can the dutch crew come?	18:32
BartJol	to the wedding?	18:32
+Radix_	heh.. if you can make it over here you're welcome!	18:32
+Radix_	Actually we'll probably be doing two weddings.. one here and one in Penang, Malaysia	18:32
BartJol	have to do something with my days off	18:32
BartJol	jee	18:33
Giant81	I may end up volunteering to help setup etc...	18:33
BartJol	simultaneously?	18:33
BartJol	mail graham or ask Haarg (that's the same)	18:33
+Radix_	BartJol: that'd be interesting.. how exactly would that be accomplished tho ;)	18:33
BartJol	dunno, big video screens... instant transportation, stuff like that	18:34
+Radix_	heh	18:34
+Radix_	I think the penang one will more than likely just be a reception - lots of food for her aunts/uncles/family back home.. the wedding itself will be here	18:35
+Radix_	then we'll head off somewhere for our honeymoon	18:35
+Radix_	still needs lots of planning atm anyway.. all we've determined so far is that it'll be next year sometime! :)	18:36
BartJol	but then you need a break from planning and go to the wuc	18:36
slickware	is it a good time? how much of a crowd is there	18:38
slickware	(the wuc, not the wedding0\	18:38
BartJol	around 50-100, don't remember exactly	18:39
BartJol	from which around 10 dutch persons	18:39
BartJol	I think around 70 last year	18:40
BartJol	but it's hard to estimate	18:40
BartJol	it's a very good time, there are talks this yera for beginners, admins and developers, so always something interesting	18:41
BartJol	and a nice bar in the hotel	18:41
slickware	haha	18:41
slickware	that's not as large as I would have expected actually	18:41
+Radix_	highly recommend it also.. It gave me a chance to answer all the questions I had and see how everyone else was using webgui in fascinating ways	18:42
BartJol	well it was a bit smaller than I did expect last year	18:42
BartJol	but that's only good for getting the chance to talk to everyone	18:42
BartJol	and ask questions ask Radix mentioned	18:42
BartJol	to show nice stuff you did	18:43
BartJol	but have to go, have to network for a new house and the work for today has been done	18:45
BartJol	see you around	18:46
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+Radix_	I'm off to bed also.. nite	18:46
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slickware	maybe I will have to plan on it for next year	18:54
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perlDreamer	Only in the Netherlands: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080604/ap_on_fe_st/mooning_mishap;_ylt=As5lpOzsqT_LK3OX0Jkfi6as0NUE	20:13
slickware	I think I can top that	20:19
slickware	:-D	20:20
slickware	http://youtube.com/watch?v=BmZpH6RWGI4&feature=related	20:20
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@apeiron	http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html media channel has Phoenix updates.	21:03
@preaction	svn should be back now, for those of you waiting to make commits	21:04
perlDreamer	talked with rizen, he says it's okay to warn people about spectre being down on commit, but not to cancel the commit	21:05
perlDreamer	I'll hold off my commits until this afternoon, PDT-wise	21:05
@apeiron	preaction++ # Houston, SVN is a go	21:07
@preaction	pfft, blame me for failing to make the init.d script work and having to start it manually. it could've been up hours ago	21:07
perlDreamer	Dude, it's working. That's all that matters.	21:07
* apeiron nods.		21:08
@preaction	actually, i blame redhat for their "service" command not telling me WHY my script wasn't working (didn't have the +x bit)	21:08
perlDreamer	The only questions now are 1)git or SVK, 2) when we switch	21:08
@apeiron	I say leave the repo itself as svn, then developers can use whatever they want.	21:09
@apeiron	I personally find git to be as awkward as CVS.	21:09
@apeiron	Or worse.	21:09
perlDreamer	I haven't used either, but Haarg digs git over svk after using both for a while.	21:10
@apeiron	There're some technical issues with svk, but for me, git is emacs-style awkward.	21:11
@preaction	imho svk seems like a hack over svn, whereas git was designed to be distributed	21:12
@preaction	but me, i've tried bazaar and i like it	21:12
perlDreamer	you're forgiven, as a penance, burn two copies of the Emacs users manual	21:13
@apeiron	I don't think it would matter which client developer X or developer Y uses if we use the SVN FS, since so many clients can speak to it.	21:15
perlDreamer	but if the SVN goes down again, can SVK and git push across to one another?	21:16
perlDreamer	in other words, are we still vulnerable to the same problem?	21:16
@apeiron	hmm	21:17
@apeiron	I don't think so.	21:17
@apeiron	well	21:17
@apeiron	You could do it manually.	21:17
@apeiron	i.e., tar up the SVK depot directory, mail it.	21:17
perlDreamer	yeah, that's advantage of homogeneity. If it's all git, then we just stop pushing to main and start pulling from one another.	21:18
perlDreamer	I don't know how SVK would work, probably similarly.	21:18
@apeiron	I dunno. If we standardize on git, I might write a porcelain for it to present a more comfortable interface.	21:20
* perlDreamer commits to reading the stuff that Haarg sent out about git intro for SVN users		21:20
@Haarg	what part of the interface don't you like apeiron?	21:22
@apeiron	Haarg, The way the commands are named, the ugly ugly ugly URL syntax, other stuff.	21:22
@Haarg	i don't think you can push/pull from other svk repositories easily	21:22
@Haarg	which url syntax do you mean?	21:22
@apeiron	I think in terms of 'checkout' 'update' 'checkin', not 'push' 'pull 'clone'	21:22
perlDreamer	I think this is the URL: http://git.or.cz/course/svn.html	21:26
@Haarg	that's getting used to git if you are familiar with svn	21:31
@Haarg	if you are using git like i do, with a svn backend, then there's this: http://utsl.gen.nz/talks/git-svn/intro.html	21:32
perlDreamer	ah, thanks Haarg. I saw this talk at OSCON last year, but had forgotten about it.	21:35
perlDreamer	Sam is a good presenter.	21:35
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wgGuest52	hello	21:35
wgGuest52	i am nwb just installed on my virtual server wreconsole is working can someone help	21:37
slickware	what's your question wgGuest52?	21:37
wgGuest52	hi slick m not sure everything working just testing right now services all ok now how can i publish website	21:39
wgGuest52	or begin working on website	21:40
@apeiron	wgGuest52, Did you add a site via the WRE console?	21:42
wgGuest52	yes	21:42
@apeiron	Okay, and you've done the initial setup for that, yes?	21:42
@apeiron	Gone to that URL, done the wizard with the light blue background, etc.	21:42
wgGuest52	am still on wre console	21:43
@apeiron	You'll need to access the URL of the site you added on the console.	21:43
wgGuest52	still showing apache placeholder	21:44
perlDreamer	wgGuest52: Are you using debian?	21:44
wgGuest52	ubuntu i think i have to add dns /etjosts	21:45
wgGuest52	ubuntu i think i have to add dns /hosts	21:45
perlDreamer	okay, have you turned off the default apache that comes with ubuntu, and the mysql?	21:45
slickware	lol two of these issues today so far.	21:46
wgGuest52	not the apache cant control it with httpd have to kill process	21:47
wgGuest52	i think	21:47
wgGuest52	i have may be 10 apche processes runin	21:48
wgGuest52	16 actually	21:48
slickware	try running	21:49
slickware	/etc/init.d/httpd stop	21:49
wgGuest52	no such file	21:50
slickware	ok	21:50
wgGuest52	kill all apche proces	21:50
slickware	replace httpd in that with apache2	21:51
slickware	see if that works	21:51
slickware	and/or you might have to:	21:51
slickware	sudo /etc/init.d/apache2 stop	21:51
@Haarg	if you are using the wre, you would want to use the wreservice.pl script	21:51
@apeiron	Haarg, The issue seems to be a vendor-supplied httpd clashing with the WRE httpd.	21:52
@Haarg	ah	21:52
wgGuest52	aha	21:52
@Haarg	me no read good	21:52
@preaction	yeah, sudo invoke-rc.d httpd stop	21:52
wgGuest52	yes ok	21:52
@preaction	or apache2 stop	21:52
perlDreamer	or install fedora	21:55
@preaction	pfft, you and your fedora	21:56
@preaction	debian ftw	21:56
perlDreamer	ftw = foobar's the world?	21:56
@Haarg	for the win	21:56
slickware	man fedora stopped being cool back when... oh right, when it stopped being redhat :-D	21:57
wgGuest52	thanks slickware i am getting started	21:58
wgGuest52	i will play around for now bye all thanks	21:58
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slickware	how many ways are there to stop apache? the world may never know!	22:00
@apeiron	I prefer the slay utility.	22:01
* perlDreamer 1) tries init script		22:02
* perlDreamer 2) tries apache2 stop		22:02
* perlDreamer 3) tries kill -9		22:02
perlDreamer	3	22:02
@apeiron	http://pkgsrc.se/sysutils/slay	22:02
@apeiron	Do yourself a favor, do not run slay without arguments.	22:03
slickware	heh... that's an awesome command	22:04
@preaction	ps ax \| grep "httpd" \| cut -d' ' -f 1 \| xargs kill -9	22:04
@preaction	works when killall doesn't exist	22:05
ckotil	heh	22:08
@apeiron	bah grep, bah cut, bah xargs	22:09
@apeiron	You call yourself a Perl programmer?	22:09
@preaction	ps ax \| perl -anlF' ' -e'`kill -9 $A[0]`'	22:11
@preaction	one of these things is slightly more readable than the other, lets figure out which!	22:11
perlDreamer	ps -ax \| perl -lane 'kill -9 $F[0]'	22:12
perlDreamer	split on whitespace is the default	22:12
perlDreamer	and it does seem strange to invoke perl to call the shell	22:13
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@preaction	pfft. damn you and your stronger perl-fu	22:13
perlDreamer	only on the command line, preaction	22:13
@Haarg	wouldn't that try to kill every process?	22:13
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@preaction	mine doesn't have the overhead of the perl interpreter	22:13
@preaction	ha, we forgot grep	22:13
@apeiron	.... ha, oops	22:14
perlDreamer	ps -ax \| perl -lane '`kill -9 $F[0]` if /apache/'	22:14
perlDreamer	no grep needed	22:14
perlDreamer	ps -ax \| perl -lane '`kill -9 $F[0]` if /(apache)\|(httpd)/'	22:15
@preaction	no need for capturing parens there	22:15
@preaction	unless that's a PBP thing	22:15
@Haarg	i don't think pbp applies to one liners	22:16
perlDreamer	nope, just my bad	22:16
perlDreamer	so we can drop 4 more characters	22:17
perlDreamer	ps -ax \| perl -lane '`kill -9 $F[0]` if /apache\|httpd/'	22:17
@Haarg	you could also drop some spaces if you hate readability	22:17
@preaction	c'mon, you know we do!	22:18
perlDreamer	and I think this will do it all "inside" perl: perl -lane 'BEGIN{ @ARGV = `ps -ax`} `kill -9 $F[0]` if /apache\|httpd/'	22:18
@preaction	now that's just crazy	22:19
perlDreamer	and it may not even work, I haven't tested it.	22:29
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CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6547 /WebGUI/ (5 files in 3 dirs): replace the old, buggy label.t with the new, slow critic_labels.t. Add Perl::Critic and Test::Perl::Critic as optional requirements to sbin/testEnvironment.pl	23:42
Axthrower	whenever i try to use any admin function i get the error "WebGUI was unable to instantiate your style template." at the top of the page and nothing displays correctly. The content that I've created does display correctly though..	23:44
@preaction	Axthrower, something went wrong with the Admin Console style. It should not have been possible to delete it, but that's probably what happened.	23:51
Axthrower	how would I go about restoring it?	23:52
@preaction	find a backup and get it from there? make a new site and get it from there? (meaning: export it as a package and import it back into your site)	23:52
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--- Day changed Thu Jun 05 2008
Axthrower	any ideas what files i should be looking for?	00:03
@preaction	root/import/AdminConsole probably. otherwise i don't know	00:04
Axthrower	k thanks	00:04
perlDreamer	Axthrower, Would you please add a page to the wiki with how you recovered it?	00:49
Axthrower	still working on it..	01:06
Axthrower	all the files appear to be intact...	01:07
perlDreamer	Hey, maybe we should make a package of the root import node so that people can easily recover mistakes.	01:07
perlDreamer	it would need to be version specific	01:07
Axthrower	anyone know what template PBtmpl0000000000000137 is?	01:10
perlDreamer	that is a style template	01:11
Axthrower	ya.. which one	01:11
perlDreamer	that is the admin console style template	01:13
perlDreamer	select * from template as t join assetData as a on t.assetId = a.assetId and t.revisionDate=a.revisionDate where t.assetId='PBtmpl0000000000000137';	01:13
Axthrower	ya thats what i was doing.. and get NOTHING	01:14
perlDreamer	well, that means that it's gone	01:15
perlDreamer	you need to reinstanciate it	01:15
perlDreamer	what version of wG are you using, exactly?	01:15
Axthrower	7.4.39-stable	01:17
perlDreamer	ah, that's fortunate	01:17
perlDreamer	Try this.	01:17
perlDreamer	Go to the demo site, demo.plainblack.com	01:17
Axthrower	it was working fine.. people were working with it etc.. than broke it somehow	01:17
Axthrower	i dunno what they did	01:17
perlDreamer	someone deleted the style template	01:17
perlDreamer	and then cleaned it out of the trash	01:17
perlDreamer	at the demo site, create a demo site	01:18
perlDreamer	log in as admin	01:18
perlDreamer	go to the admin console	01:18
perlDreamer	find the style template in the import node	01:18
perlDreamer	set it to be a package	01:18
perlDreamer	export that package and save a copy of it	01:18
perlDreamer	in your site, import that package, and it will restore the style template	01:18
perlDreamer	Axthrower, did you follow all that?	01:19
Axthrower	yup working on it..	01:19
perlDreamer	preaction: Am I missing anything?	01:19
Axthrower	the assetId on the demo site for the admin console template is PBtmpl0000000000000001	01:21
Axthrower	i DO have that template in the database with the same html etc...	01:21
perlDreamer	bad news, they have the same Title	01:22
perlDreamer	Admin Console \| admin_console2 \| PBtmpl0000000000000001 \| AdminConsole \|	01:22
perlDreamer	\| Admin Console \| admin_console \| PBtmpl0000000000000137 \| style \|	01:22
perlDreamer	good news, using the namespace OR the URL, you can tell them apart	01:23
perlDreamer	I filed that as a bug: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/admin-console-templates-have-the-same-title#JmcWxembbTkZWVWd2Q4YPQ	01:25
Axthrower	ok so i found that 137 on the demo site.. how do i make it be a package?	01:26
perlDreamer	Edit the template, and select the Metadata tab	01:27
Axthrower	ah ok	01:27
Axthrower	yup that worked..	01:32
perlDreamer	the whole thing? cool!	01:33
Axthrower	the entire "style" folder was missing out of the import node	01:34
perlDreamer	If that's so, then repeat the procedure with the Style folder and make a package out of it.	01:37
Axthrower	thats what i did the first time..	01:38
Axthrower	i assumed the worst =P	01:38
perlDreamer	good call	01:38
Axthrower	i wanted nothing todo with the webdev project.. so i setup the stuff gave full access to the developer..	01:39
Axthrower	OBVIOUSLY a bad idea.	01:39
Axthrower	http://216.20.64.232/~rharhen/Style.pm.patch changes i made to style.pm to figure out what was missing.. if anyone is interested	01:45
perlDreamer	Axthrower, please submit that as a bug with the patch	01:46
perlDreamer	I'm sure it will be accepted.	01:46
Axthrower	done..	01:53
Axthrower	allright thanks for the help all	01:53
Axthrower	have a good night	01:53
perlDreamer	good night	01:53
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@apeiron	Wow, people actually use epic these days, instead of just make jokes about how people don't use it?	02:03
perlDreamer	apeiron, you see anything wrong with applying that patch?	02:06
@apeiron	Put some spaces aroudn the operators so it follows WGBP and then it'd be fine.	02:07
* apeiron loathes "string"."string"		02:07
perlDreamer	what do you usually use instead?	02:07
@apeiron	operand operator operand	02:07
@apeiron	always	02:07
@apeiron	"string"."string" is trying to hide what's going on, IMO.	02:08
perlDreamer	I usually use join, or sprintf	02:09
perlDreamer	Well, my Perl::Critic policy does not obey scope	02:13
perlDreamer	I'll need to fix that	02:13
perlDreamer	I thought I'd already done that, and the skeletal code for supporting it is there, but the key pieces are not.	02:14
@apeiron	Scope?	02:14
perlDreamer	say you have a module with two subs	02:14
@apeiron	Also, for the curious, the WGBP practice I'm mentioning is in chapter two, under "operators".	02:14
perlDreamer	each sub makes an i18n object to its own i18n namespace	02:15
@apeiron	Right.	02:15
perlDreamer	but the scanner checks the WHOLE file for i18n calls under namespace1, which is wrong	02:15
perlDreamer	it should reset at the end of the sub, or enclosing scope	02:15
* apeiron nods.		02:15
perlDreamer	That's why I said it was ignoring scope	02:16
@apeiron	ah.	02:16
perlDreamer	hm, there's a perlcritic channel over on irc.perl.org	02:21
perlDreamer	maybe I should ask over there	02:21
perlDreamer	'cause I remember why I never finished that code	02:21
perlDreamer	Perl::Critic would need to be reentrant	02:22
perlDreamer	since I need to interrupt it's parsing	02:22
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@apeiron	Crap, it's Tavis. Everyone run!	03:41
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ToddB	Hello anyone there that can help with install question	05:31
+Radix-wrk	ToddB: Best thing to do is ask your question.. and wait... if someone can help they will - but due to everyone on different time zones it may not be immediate.	06:51
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perlDreamer	I'm working on reverting the cancel commit stuff now	07:41
perlDreamer	it's all done	07:53
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CIA-6	WebGUI: patspam * r6548 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (20 files in 7 dirs): WebGUI_flux: Added Operator base class and 2 Operator modules with tests	11:29
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6549 /WebGUI/ (7 files in 5 dirs): web interface for importing and exporting products. Additional tests for the import/export API	11:29
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6550 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (4 files in 3 dirs): revert the patch that checked spectre and canceled the commit if it could not talk to it	11:29
CIA-6	WebGUI: patspam * r6551 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (16 files in 7 dirs): WebGUI_flux: added Operand module, and two sample Operands, with tests	11:29
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BartJol	aaah need API	15:24
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BartJol	is there a method in the api to reload a page? searching in the pod takes a bit long if you don't know where to look	16:07
BartJol	call me lazy	16:07
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SquOnk	Hi everyone	17:28
SquOnk	Quick question.	17:30
SquOnk	While packaging for Debian, one of the issues is using the Debian packaged YUI instead of the WebGUI "piggy-backed" one...	17:30
SquOnk	...I've set that up already, but need to know how to properly test if everything is working fine.	17:31
SquOnk	What elements of WebGUI require YUI?	17:31
ckotil	I think the admin console web interface	17:32
ckotil	I would stick with the WebGUI packaged YUI	17:32
ckotil	lots of elements in YUI are beta	17:33
ckotil	so who knows what has changed and will cause problems for webgui by using the debian packaged one	17:33
SquOnk	ckotil: The Debian packaged one is exactly the same as WebGUI's piggibacked one :-)	17:33
SquOnk	ckotil: I just want to make sure that the symlinks I've set in place are the right ones :-)	17:34
ckotil	ah	17:35
SquOnk	ckotil: Debian won't allow "wholesale software copying" so both YUI and TiniMCE2 must be linked to the ones already in Debian.	17:36
SquOnk	ckotil: The rest of the WebGUI included JS is copied verbatim.	17:36
SquOnk	Well, the left admin bar works fine.	17:36
SquOnk	Drag'n drop works fine too...	17:37
ckotil	nice	17:37
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perlDreamer	SquOnk, The Calendar and Gallery use a lot of YUI	18:17
perlDreamer	I'd recommend testing on those	18:17
perlDreamer	In 7.5.11 (not released yet), the EMS and the Shop admin functions use a lot of YUI.	18:18
perlDreamer	Also, Survey2	18:18
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Thanks	18:19
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Are there any tests for that in testCodebase?	18:19
perlDreamer	There are a few mech tests, but they wouldn't be testing Javascript, now, would they? :)	18:19
perlDreamer	for that you need Selenium or something similar	18:20
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Just asking...	18:21
SquOnk	perlDreamer: ...since I've seen pretty interesting tests in there.	18:21
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wgGuest22	Is there an easy way to just add a local file directory path as an asset to Webgui without uploading the files?	19:24
@preaction	the fileImport.pl script in WebGUI/sbin perhaps?	19:24
perlDreamer	If you can live without the Assets, passThruUrls (in the config file) will let you serve static files through WebGUI	19:26
wgGuest22	I'll need to look at that. I am trying to replace my regular apache server with WRE on CentOS5. One of the main uses I have for apache is to provide a network build path (YUM Repo) which uses automount to mount the ISO on demand. A static passthru sounds like the right approach.	19:27
perlDreamer	docs on passThruUrls are in the config file, also check the wiki and search the forums	19:28
wgGuest22	Thanks!	19:28
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slickware	hey all.	20:16
slickware	when something is deleted from the asset manager, is there a way to completely Purge it so that you can later on upload another item with the same name and path?	20:16
perlDreamer	When something is deleted, it's put in the Trash.	20:19
perlDreamer	Once it's deleted from the Trash, it's gone forever.	20:19
* perlDreamer is afk		20:19
slickware	ah	20:22
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slickware	haha it won't let me purge my entire trashcan because I have a folder in there	20:39
slickware	I had to delete the items one at a time, and the folder doesn't want to go away still	20:39
@preaction	that shouldn't be an issue, so there's probably an error in the error log	20:44
slickware	not too worried about it, i'm switching to agency hosting tomorrow so I don't ahve to deal with adminning my own damn server anymore	20:45
slickware	dealing with that is getting old, i'd rather just build the sites and be done with it!	20:45
@preaction	amen to that. let graham deal with it!	20:45
slickware	is there a way to make all titles hidden by default so users don't have to hide them every time they make a new article?	20:50
@preaction	not really. not without changing the code	20:51
@preaction	or you could change the template	20:51
@preaction	but then they'd have to pick your new template	20:51
@preaction	(do not change default templates, make a copy and change that)	20:51
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slickware	where would that setting be in a template?	21:00
slickware	I never use the defaults	21:00
ckotil	if you hide the titles at the parent level, the setting should be inherited. or edit the template.	21:03
@preaction	use the available help files to figure out what the template variable for the title is, and then remove it	21:03
ckotil	<tmpl_if displayTitle><h1><tmpl_var title></h1></tmpl_if>	21:03
slickware	i'm not sure what that means exactly, hide them at the parent level?	21:04
bopbop	slickware: a simple thing to do would be just to make a prototype of an article	21:04
bopbop	with the title hidden	21:04
ckotil	slickware: hide them at the top level , and the setting should be inherited	21:05
@preaction	yeah, but you might want displayTitle for the Page Layout	21:08
@preaction	i like bopbop's idea too, prototypes are good	21:08
slickware	I still don't know what you mean by top level. Hide them on the home page?	21:10
@preaction	he means hide them on the page Layout the articles are contained in	21:12
@preaction	if you set Display Title to No on the Layout, the Articles added to it will start with Display Title set to no	21:12
slickware	the only option on a page layout is whether or not to display the page title	21:19
slickware	which doesn't seem to assist when removing article titles	21:19
@preaction	so changing Display Title to No on the Layout doesn't automatically set Display Title to No when adding a new Article?	21:23
@preaction	Would it be evil to make an i18n message be either a string OR a subroutine that returned a string?	21:25
@preaction	we could clean up a lot of duplication that way	21:26
perlDreamer	preaction, we just need to clean up the namespaces	21:26
perlDreamer	it's going to take time	21:26
@preaction	we can't, there are sites deployed with the dirty stuff, relying on the dirty stuff. we need to maintain backwards compat somehow	21:26
@preaction	so being able to point the old i18n label to the new i18n label would solve that	21:27
perlDreamer	but at the user level it's all abstracted away, it's either code or a template var.	21:30
perlDreamer	I seriously doubt that any users are accessing i18n labels directly	21:31
perlDreamer	like by using ^International	21:31
@preaction	the International macro	21:31
perlDreamer	yeah, that's the only way for them to access stuff directly	21:31
@preaction	it's everywhere in the Gallery templates, and will be soon in the Calendar	21:31
perlDreamer	otherwise, it's either code or template vars	21:31
@preaction	also WebGUI::International::get() for field labels and such	21:32
perlDreamer	Most of those come from the WebGUI namespace	21:32
perlDreamer	In fact, ALL of them come from WebGUI or UserProfile	21:32
@preaction	but you can specify your own namespace if you want	21:32
perlDreamer	you _can_, but do you think people _are_?	21:33
@preaction	that's just it, i tend to think that if you can do something, that somebody is doing it	21:33
perlDreamer	I used to think that way too	21:33
perlDreamer	Now I think WebGUI has too much special interest code in it	21:33
@preaction	i don't think i18n is special interest, not in the way that say LDAP is special-interest	21:34
perlDreamer	No, I'm saying that 'special' use of i18n is a very rare activity	21:34
perlDreamer	and if we put shared items in WebGUI, it will work anyway :)	21:34
@preaction	are we talking inheritence?	21:35
perlDreamer	No, I'm talking about how the i18n works now	21:35
@preaction	no, i meant "shared items"	21:35
perlDreamer	It checks for user's language and namespace, then user's language and WebGUI, then english	21:36
perlDreamer	yeah, so am I	21:36
perlDreamer	if shared items are moved to the WebGUI namespace, they'll still work	21:36
@preaction	ahh	21:36
perlDreamer	wait a sec	21:38
perlDreamer	no they won't	21:38
perlDreamer	I'm confused with the English fallback	21:39
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perlDreamer	sorry, preaction	21:41
@preaction	np	21:41
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perlDreamer	It's ahrd to build inheritance with pure perl data structures	21:48
perlDreamer	maybe we could just encode a few inheritance rules in ->get	21:48
perlDreamer	and make it work the way I mistakenly thought it could	21:48
-!- tavisto [n=tavisto@pool-71-120-147-81.gdrpmi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #WebGUI		21:49
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perlDreamer	so everything fallsback to WebGUI	21:49
-!- tavisto [n=tavisto@pool-71-120-147-81.gdrpmi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit]		21:49
perlDreamer	A wobject falls back to Wobject falls back to Asset falls back to WebGUI	21:49
perlDreamer	and so on	21:49
@preaction	right, but you'd have to set up these relationships somehow, with like @ISA (which might be evil) or a package-scoped lexical or something	21:53
@preaction	but yeah	21:53
@preaction	i like the idea of inheritence in the i18n tree	21:53
perlDreamer	I don't think the inheritance rules could do in the actual i18n files	21:54
@preaction	especially since that will fix the stupid problem i made with Photo / GalleryFile (the GalleryFile asset uses Photo i18n namespace because to change it would make about 4-8 hours of work for BartJol)	21:55
@preaction	no, it wouldn't be automatic, but we could use @ISA ourselves	21:55
@preaction	it'd just be perverting the meaning a bit	21:55
perlDreamer	Yeah, I'm thinking of something much less flexible but highly contained	21:55
@preaction	resolving the inheritence by guessing inside of WebGUI::International::get?	21:57
perlDreamer	Yes.	21:57
perlDreamer	The only advantage to that is that it's all in 1 place, and out of the i18n files	21:57
perlDreamer	aside from that, I don't particularly like it	21:58
@preaction	i don't like the extra maintenance headache at all	21:58
perlDreamer	oh, and it does with with raw files of perl data which matches the current i18n system	21:58
perlDreamer	But if you push it out into the i18n files, you have to duplicate it across ALL the language packs	21:59
perlDreamer	that's not fun	21:59
@preaction	unless, if you don't find i18n/*/Namespace.pm::PARENT_NAMESPACE, you look in i18n/English/Namespace.pm::PARENT_NAMESPACE	22:00
@preaction	but that's hackery	22:00
perlDreamer	I didn't follow that	22:00
perlDreamer	that's the current English fallback that's hardcoded into ->get	22:01
@preaction	PARENT_NAMESPACE being the package-scoped variable that defines where to look after you can't find it in the current namespace	22:01
perlDreamer	well, again, custom coding in the i18n files is a recipe for disaster.	22:01
@preaction	so first it checks Language/Namespace for the i18n key. doesn't find it. Checks Language/Namespace for a PARENT, doesn't find it. Checks English/Namespace for a PARENT. Finds it, checks Language/PARENT for the i18n key	22:02
@preaction	if it didn't find PARENT in English/Namespace, it would check for the i18n key, and if it didn't find it, then it would do whatever it does currently (fall back to WebGUI namespace or whatevz)	22:03
@preaction	so it's a recursive lookup, as long as the English namespaces have the inheritence set properly	22:04
perlDreamer	that's a lot of evals per lookup	22:04
@preaction	i mean, we could also use an upgrade to add the inheritence stuff to existing languages on the system, but no matter what someting will fall through the cracks	22:05
@preaction	i'm pretty sure we could cache the results, making references to the real value from the original i18n lookup	22:06
@preaction	hell, we could probably do that now	22:06
perlDreamer	I've tried caching, it's actually slower to do the lookup than it is to do the eval	22:06
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perlDreamer	of course, I did a symbol table lookup, maybe a separate cache would be faster.	22:12
perlDreamer	but that costs you 2X the i18n memory	22:12
@preaction	i was thinking putting the reference in the correct place in the symbol table, or hell even putting the string itself there	22:15
@preaction	so that way the next time you look it up, it's where you expected it to be	22:15
@preaction	or is that like what you did?	22:15
perlDreamer	I checked to see if the entry existed in the symbol table on each get, and it if didn't, then eval the namespace to bring it into existance.	22:16
perlDreamer	You'd have to do a similar check, and then the install	22:16
perlDreamer	it would probably be slower	22:16
perlDreamer	but I've been wrong at least one other time today :)	22:17
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@preaction	eh, it's something we could try. speeding up i18n lookups by even a slight amount would be worth it	22:17
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@apeiron	2A"	22:25
@apeiron	whoops. Cat says hi.	22:25
@preaction	CAT-LIKE TYPING DETECTED	22:26
Giant81	obfiscated perl = cat code	22:26
@apeiron	CAT-LIKE PROGRAMMER DETECTED	22:26
Giant81	looks like a cat lyed down on your keyboard	22:27
perlDreamer	talented cat that can hit a shift key :)	22:28
@apeiron	Shift-up arrow, actually.	22:34
perlDreamer	very smart cat; it tried to use command-line completion	22:35
Giant81	ok freebsd is retarded	22:37
Giant81	every 3rd package it says I need to swap disks	22:37
* Giant81 downloads the DVD for next time		22:37
@apeiron	heh	22:37
@apeiron	You're not supposed to install packages when you install the system, don't you know that?	22:38
Giant81	appearantly	22:39
Giant81	its a virtual machine no less... so I haveh to go through like 3 menus to tell it to mount a different iso for the CDrom drive	22:39
* Giant81 deletes his bsd image and starts over		22:39
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perlDreamer	tavisto: Are your customers happy, or are they grumbling about the server downtime?	22:52
@tavisto	I haven't heard much from people although I've fielded 2-3 questions about outages	22:54
@tavisto	most people are understanding.. especially when I send them the URL of the full story	22:55
@tavisto	I do have a couple people who want the e-commerce to be back on plainblack.com so they can buy stuff	22:55
@tavisto	with it being on the temp box the SSL is obviously out of commission	22:56
perlDreamer	we like it when they buy stuff	22:56
@tavisto	um yeah	22:57
@apeiron	Buying stuff is good.	22:57
@tavisto	considering it's advertising cash	22:57
@tavisto	from cmsmatrix	22:57
@tavisto	free money for WebGUI Development	22:57
@tavisto	;)	22:57
slickware	I was told yesterday that the SSL was back up	22:58
slickware	because I was going to buy the agency hosting yesterday	22:58
perlDreamer	SVN is back up, so some part of the SSL must be back up	22:59
@tavisto	slickware did you buy the hosting?	23:00
slickware	oh hey, you must be Tavis	23:00
@tavisto	yep :)	23:00
perlDreamer	tavisto == Tavis	23:01
slickware	I didn't yet, I got an email from Jamie on tuesday saying it would be up on Wednesday	23:01
@tavisto	I am pretty sneaky with my name selection... but that name is actually from my Mii character on Wii	23:01
@tavisto	now everyone at PB calls me that	23:01
slickware	but by wednesday I had already started building my demo site on my crochety old server, so I will buy it this weekend once I have something to move	23:01
* perlDreamer still thinks it rhymes with Mephisto		23:01
@tavisto	Tay-Vee-Sto	23:02
slickware	mine actually rhymes with "angina"	23:02
@tavisto	Alright slickware, that sounds great	23:02
slickware	yes... you have no idea how great it sounds... i'm tired of keeping this dog running for like 2 domains!	23:03
@tavisto	do you have the book yet?	23:03
slickware	I ordered the book on monday or tuesday	23:03
@tavisto	I used to play around with my server and run a couple sites.. but it's just not worth the time or hassle	23:03
slickware	but, I dug through the wiki and actually figured most of what I needed out	23:03
@tavisto	oh cool, that designers book will make your life so much easier	23:03
slickware	along with bothering preaction and perlDreamer for the last few days	23:03
@tavisto	yeah but they like it	23:04
slickware	I imagine so... they're here every day it seems	23:05
perlDreamer	That's why they pay us the big bucks!	23:05
slickware	although, you should work on getting them to wake up earlier - I think they're on PST and i'm on EST, which means I don't get my questions resolved until almost noontime ;)	23:05
@tavisto	most of us chill in here although not usually in here	23:05
perlDreamer	Well, one of us at least	23:05
perlDreamer	And he's not even paid to hang out in here either	23:05
@tavisto	Doug is in Madison so he's cst with most of PB	23:05
perlDreamer	Just why do we do this?	23:05
slickware	i'm paid to hang out in here... just not by PB	23:06
@tavisto	perlDreamer is just a slacker and wakes up at 3pm everyday	23:06
* apeiron is a slacker who wakes up at 11 everyday		23:06
slickware	i'm a slacker... it's 4pm my time and i'm heading home	23:06
@tavisto	and ape too	23:06
slickware	driving range and dinner... enjoy your afternoons!	23:06
@tavisto	take care, ttyl	23:07
slickware	thanks all	23:07
* slickware bounces		23:07
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* perlDreamer loves testing		23:10
CIA-6	WebGUI: doug * r6552 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): fixed: Password recovery no longer allows disabled users to recover or log in	23:24
CIA-6	WebGUI: doug * r6553 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fix: Password recovery no longer allows Deactivated users to recover passwords or log in	23:24
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6554 /WebGUI/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Products.pm t/Shop/Products.t): tests for exporting, and some bug fixes in exportProducts	23:24
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--- Day changed Fri Jun 06 2008
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lisette	I like to know if a user already answering a trivia and can not return to respond? by this database	01:08
lisette	this by databse	01:08
lisette	or in the template	01:09
lisette	of survey	01:09
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CIA-6	WebGUI: patspam * r6555 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (18 files in 9 dirs): WebGUI_flux: added Modifier modules (used to be called PostProcess) and two Modifiers (DateTimeFormat and DateTimeCompareToNow) with tests	08:59
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+Radix-wrk	http://www.thosearentmuskets.com/sketches/internetparty2.html	10:23
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CIA-6	WebGUI: patspam * r6556 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (14 files in 5 dirs): WebGUI_flux: started adding Rule evaluation handling	12:35
BartJol	hee, SVN is up again?	12:36
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bopbop	haarg: where did webgui.org go? will it be down long?	15:47
BartJol	it is back	15:48
BartJol	it was down last week after the fire	15:48
bopbop	no, it's down now	15:48
bopbop	hust directs to pb.com	15:49
bopbop	just	15:49
BartJol	mmm, in europe I can see it	15:49
bopbop	really?	15:49
BartJol	yeah	15:49
bopbop	hmmm- I can't access	15:49
BartJol	strange	15:49
bopbop	yeah	15:50
bopbop	tried logging out and back in, tried in admin mode... nothing	15:52
BartJol	mmm it's not your connection, otherwise you couldn't be in this room	15:52
bopbop	right	15:52
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BartJol	logged out, logged in, works fine for me	15:53
BartJol	on webgui.org	15:53
BartJol	maybe Mr Tank knows	15:53
bopbop	very odd- yep, I'll ask him	15:53
bopbop	khenn: can you access webgui.org?	15:53
@khenn	yep	15:54
bopbop	grrrr	15:54
bopbop	any idea why I can't?	15:54
@khenn	internet down?	15:54
bopbop	no, or I wouldn't be here	15:54
bopbop	everything else works fine	15:54
@khenn	port 80 outgoing blocked?	15:55
bopbop	I can enter admin, sign in...	15:55
@khenn	proxy server?	15:55
bopbop	how do I check?	15:55
@khenn	would be on your firewall	15:55
BartJol	or proxy is tools->options	15:55
@khenn	actually	15:55
@khenn	webgui.org is redirecting me to plainblack.com	15:55
bopbop	yep	15:56
@khenn	so something is no right	15:56
bopbop	me too!	15:56
BartJol	network->settings	15:56
BartJol	but why doen'st that happen to me?	15:56
@khenn	http://www.plainblack.com/rfe	15:56
@khenn	can get there by going directly there	15:56
BartJol	otherwise it could be a rewrite rule that is not active	15:57
@khenn	looks like webgui.org is redirecting back to plainblack.com for some reason	15:57
@khenn	yeah	15:57
SDuensin	FRIDAY!	15:58
BartJol	yeah, almost vacation	15:58
BartJol	only 2 hours left	15:59
SDuensin	:-)	15:59
BartJol	I must admit that some url's are rewritten	15:59
BartJol	even in Europe	16:00
BartJol	but it works also with webgui.org	16:00
BartJol	but in the upper bar of my browser it says "Plain Black, makers of WebGUI"	16:03
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SquOnk	Hi everyone	17:20
SquOnk	extras/calendar is being used?	17:20
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steveo_aa	webgui.org not online?	17:46
BartJol	seems like it	17:47
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steveo_aa	plainblack.com too.	17:51
BartJol	isn't that the same webgui instance?	17:52
steveo_aa	Don't know, but a dev gateway is not reachable as well.	17:52
BartJol	we should bother Haarg with it	17:55
BartJol	probably he's already working on it	17:56
BartJol	Haarg?	17:57
@Haarg	erg	17:58
BartJol	working on the down webgui.org ?	17:58
@Haarg	yeah	17:58
BartJol	well, then we won't disturb you any further	17:59
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@Haarg	should be back up now	18:21
BartJol	it is, you're great!	18:23
@Haarg	nothing i did; still don't know what the problem was	18:24
BartJol	you just have brought some of JT's fear aura into your servers again	18:25
BartJol	I'm following JT's example and will be on holidays next week, have a fun hacking time	18:30
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steveo_aa	When is dusk returning?	18:34
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slickware	hooray, agency hosting	19:21
@Haarg	dusk? it has been up since monday. you having a problem with it?	19:36
slickware	no, no, I just purchased it	19:36
slickware	I was hooraying it	19:37
@tavisto	sweet	19:37
@tavisto	so it let you purchase it	19:37
@tavisto	let the flood gates open and sales continue	19:38
bopbop	Haarg: why is webgui.org redirecting to pb.com's homepage?	19:38
slickware	it's not, for me	19:40
bopbop	it has been for me all day	19:40
slickware	flush your DNS	19:40
bopbop	still is- other pb staff members have had the problem too	19:41
bopbop	but for some reason bartjol didn't	19:41
slickware	ah... you're PB staff? then my guess is your PB internal dns is messed up	19:41
slickware	at least the rest of the world is ok :)	19:41
bopbop	well thank goodness for that :)	19:42
slickware	http://207.44.136.150/	19:42
slickware	what happens if you hit it by IP	19:42
@Haarg	it was messed up earlier, but dns should be fixed now. i'll check again though.	19:42
bopbop	slickware: that works for me	19:43
slickware	then definitely it's your dns	19:43
slickware	either on your comp, or your router or whatnot	19:43
slickware	it will probably refresh itself soon	19:44
@Haarg	you can use http://www.plainblack.com/wg for now	19:44
bopbop	cool- thx	19:45
slickware	tavisto: who do I get in touch with now to go about setting up some domains?	19:45
@tavisto	you can post that right to the support board	19:46
slickware	assuming I don't have an account number or anything, posting under my username is sufficient?	19:47
slickware	and - PB forums? or WG forums?	19:48
bopbop	slickware: PB forums	19:53
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@tavisto	support board on plainblack.com	20:12
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perlDreamer	SquOnk: What do you mean by "used"? :)	20:18
SquOnk	perlDreamer: What parts of webgui are actively using them.	20:18
SquOnk	perlDreamer: In reverse: what would break if I remove it :-)	20:18
perlDreamer	is extras/calendar a URL in the system, or a path in the extras dir?	20:18
SquOnk	perlDreamer: A path in extras dir.	20:19
perlDreamer	You will break the ProjectManager, since it still uses the old JS calendar instead of the new YUI calendar.	20:21
perlDreamer	ack extras /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI \| grep calendar	20:21
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Oh	20:21
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Well, the thing is since those JS libraries are third party, they cannot be inside Debian's webgui package.	20:22
SquOnk	perlDreamer: I'll be forced to package them _first_ an once they're (if) accepted, proceed with webgui :-/	20:22
perlDreamer	SquOnk: Option 2 is to convert the ProjectManager to use the YUI date picking tools.	20:23
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Of course we can have "unofficial" Debian packages with all that stuff in...	20:23
SquOnk	perlDreamer: ...but I believe Option 2 would be better.	20:23
perlDreamer	but for that one, we'd better submit a RFE and rizen and others think about it	20:23
perlDreamer	A good start would be a dev list posting	20:24
SquOnk	perlDreamer: And the same goes with a bunch of JS libraries there. I've already written rizen about that and other things.	20:24
perlDreamer	Has he said anything about how to handle it?	20:24
perlDreamer	(in the general sense)?	20:24
SquOnk	perlDreamer: The bottom line is: any piece of JS code in there that's NOT copyright WebGUI/PlainBlack, must be packaged separately	20:25
perlDreamer	ah, okay	20:25
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Out-of-the-office response	20:25
SquOnk	perlDreamer: So, either a cleanup of unused libraries or "option 2" :-)	20:25
perlDreamer	SquOnk: I'd recommend a posting to the dev list. That's probably the easiest and most direct way.	20:27
perlDreamer	Are you iterating over these 1 by 1, or do you have them all assessed at this point?	20:27
CIA-6	WebGUI: meatbop * r6557 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/packages-7.5.11/ (8 files): A variety of template upgrades to calendar, donations, gallery, shelf, thingy and shopping cart	20:28
SquOnk	perlDreamer: I wrote to rizen describin all of the issues that were obvious to me.	20:30
SquOnk	perlDreamer: (I'm not that familiar with WebGUI's codebase yet)	20:30
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@apeiron	perlDreamer, ack \| grep? Maybe you want to rethink that. :)	20:37
perlDreamer	ack \| ack is to Bill the Cat	20:38
perlDreamer	or do you mean ack 'extras.+?calendar' ?	20:39
@apeiron	I mean piping ack's output to grep is wee bit silly.	20:39
perlDreamer	indeed. old habits die hard	20:40
@apeiron	SquOnk, rizen is on vacation until the ninth, so if you didn't get a response before the 28th or so, you won't get one until then at the very earliest.	20:40
@apeiron	Or you shouldn't count on getting one before then.	20:41
SquOnk	apeiron: Thanks. I wrote today.	20:41
@apeiron	SquOnk, I would suggest a devlist post as well.	20:41
perlDreamer	yeah, the ProjectManager is khenn's baby, and he's not often in IRC	20:42
perlDreamer	it may be like a 5-minute job to yank out the old calendar to replace it with the new	20:42
perlDreamer	or not :(	20:42
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Meatbop	perlDreamer - you around? I hear you worked on Product	20:43
perlDreamer	I'm here, Meatbop	20:43
perlDreamer	I hope that long pause isn't you loading a shotgun :)	20:44
Meatbop	heh, no	20:44
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-!- bopbop [n=kmccombs@71-90-18-149.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit ["that's all folks"]		23:00
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perlDreamer	just who wrote this buggy product export code, anyway?!!	23:08
* preaction_ slinks away stealthily		23:10
perlDreamer	preaction should not feel bad for perlDreamer's buggy product code	23:10
perlDreamer	neither should preaction_	23:11
@preaction_	you sounded angry. anger has a way of getting redirected to the nearest available patsy	23:11
perlDreamer	preaction_ is not a patsy. Those slots are reserved for those who !grok('perl')	23:13
perlDreamer	so I'll blame Mephisto	23:13
perlDreamer	I mean Tavisto	23:13
@preaction_	or CIA-6	23:14
@preaction_	he doesn't know perl	23:14
@preaction_	CIA-6, botsnack?	23:15
@preaction_	he doesn't even like treats!	23:15
diakopter	bad bot	23:15
perlDreamer	CIA-6 _is_ perl, yet he does not know. This is tragic	23:15
@preaction_	perlbot botsnack	23:15
perlbot	I'm not your prank monkey	23:15
@preaction_	how rude	23:15
@apeiron	perlDreamer, The CIA bots are in Perl? oO	23:23
perlDreamer	Why would you write a bot in anything else? :)	23:23
perlDreamer	but I'm slightly biased	23:23
@apeiron	http://code.google.com/p/cia-vc/source/browse # unfortunately, they disagree	23:24
@apeiron	There's Python, Erlang (oO) and C, but no Perl that I can find.	23:25
perlDreamer	what is this oO thing you keep using, apeiron?	23:32
@apeiron	It's an emoticon that represents an arched eyebrow, at least when I use it.	23:32
perlDreamer	to me, it looks like part of the acronym for openOffice. But I'll keep the eyebrow thing in mind.	23:33
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SquOnk	Erlang is great for distributed systems.	23:53
perlDreamer	where does the WRE keep webgui site logs?	23:53
@preaction_	in /data/domains/*/logs	23:54
slickware	it could be someone suffering from a Hydrocele	23:54
slickware	(oO)	23:54
slickware	heh. today we learned a new word!	23:55
SquOnk	../t/AdSpace/Ad.................................ok 1/43Usage: UNIVERSAL::isa(reference, kind) at /usr/share/perl5/UNIVERSAL/isa.pm line 65.	23:59
SquOnk	../t/AdSpace/Ad.................................dubious	23:59
SquOnk	Test returned status 0 (wstat 11, 0xb)	23:59
SquOnk	DIED. FAILED tests 4-43	23:59
SquOnk	Failed 40/43 tests, 6.98% okay	23:59
SquOnk	...	23:59
--- Day changed Sat Jun 07 2008
perlDreamer	SquOnk: Are you fully up to date, or is this 7.5.10?	00:01
SquOnk	perlDreamer: 7.5.10	00:01
SquOnk	Getting back to the JS stuff we were talking about before.	00:01
perlDreamer	yeah, I'd expect those, and they're "real" in that the tests are out of date from the code.	00:01
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Ok, not to worry	00:03
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Wait, that's 7.4.39!	00:03
SquOnk	perlDreamer: But don't mind me.	00:04
SquOnk	I'm not a subscriber of the developers mailing-list. Do I need to subscribe in order to post?	00:04
@preaction_	no. you might need an account on webgui.org though	00:14
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SquOnk	All right, just posted to Webgui Dev.	00:32
SquOnk	How long does it take to show in the forum?	00:33
perlDreamer	it's rev 6558, and I tested it manually	00:33
perlDreamer	SquOnk: It's there now	00:34
SquOnk	Excellent. It's a little long, but that's just how I write :-)	00:34
SquOnk	It's pretty much what I wrote to JT this morning	00:35
perlDreamer	SquOnk: I added the blurb about the ProjectManager from this morning.	00:38
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Ok. As you've probably figured out, the best thing is to remove anything not being used :-)	00:38
perlDreamer	You could package wG without the ProjectManager. There's no easy upgrade path to get it, though.	00:39
perlDreamer	I'd rather see it changed to use YUI instead.	00:39
perlDreamer	but that's my opinion	00:39
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perlDreamer	coolmenus is used by some default Navigation templates	00:39
@preaction_	yeah, we want to get rid of it though	00:41
@preaction_	and those	00:41
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6558 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): provide a template var that will tell the user when there are no available variants for sale. Out of stock	00:41
@preaction_	the www/extras/slider should be replaced with the yui slider control probably	00:42
SquOnk	Well, hopefully the webgui community will decide what is best.	00:44
SquOnk	Remove what needs to be removed, replace what needs to be replaced and defer what needs to be deferred.	00:44
perlDreamer	And we know the status of the debian package, too.	00:44
SquOnk	As I mention in the post YUI an TinyMCE2 _are_ in Debian, so it will just be a couple of symlinks.	00:44
SquOnk	...and the YUI symlink is working fine.	00:44
perlDreamer	I found another place where the extras/calendar is used, and I updated the thread with it	00:45
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Debian will have 7.5.X. I have specially crafted 7.4.39 packages for Debian Etch.	00:45
SquOnk	perlDreamer: (Those are the packages my customers are using now)	00:45
perlDreamer	they meet the license restrictions?	00:46
SquOnk	perlDreamer: No :-)	00:46
SquOnk	perlDreamer: They are installed from my repositories.	00:46
perlDreamer	ah, okay	00:47
SquOnk	perlDreamer: By "specially crafted" I mean I had to replace some other Debian packages...	00:47
SquOnk	perlDreamer: ...since Etch has older versions of HTML::Template, Test::Deep...	00:47
SquOnk	perlDreamer: A nice thing that the Debian package has is the ability to upgrade itself.	00:49
SquOnk	perlDreamer: I just cd into my webgui source package and do 'uscan'...	00:49
SquOnk	perlDreamer: ...it checks whether or not there's a new release of webgui in plainblack.org...	00:49
SquOnk	perlDreamer: ...and downloads it, renaming it to the appropiate .tar.gz as required by Debian	00:50
SquOnk	perlDreamer: ...then I do uupgrade ../webgui*tar.gz	00:50
SquOnk	perlDreamer: It unpacks, applies my "debianizing patches" to it and sets a new changelog entry for the upgrade	00:50
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Then I just dpkg-buildpackage :-)	00:51
SquOnk	perlDreamer: So, hopefully some stuff will get deleted in 7.5.11 and when I upgrade it will all be ok...	00:52
perlDreamer	that's what it sounds like, but we're hard pressed to make 7.5.11 with the current requirements	00:53
SquOnk	perlDreamer: I know	00:53
SquOnk	perlDreamer: In fact, I'm trying myself to add the POD documentation to the Perl scripts :-)	00:54
SquOnk	Speaking of that, I'll refresh my SVN copy	00:55
SquOnk	I'm supposed to have commit privileges	00:57
SquOnk	6559 is the current version, right?	01:00
@preaction_	yes	01:03
SquOnk	All right, here come the PODs :-)	01:06
SquOnk	I've written a proper POD document for each sbin/*.pl	01:06
SquOnk	And it uses POD::Usage so you can:	01:06
SquOnk	perldoc blah.pl	01:06
SquOnk	(you get a full manpage)	01:06
SquOnk	blah.pl --help	01:06
SquOnk	(you get a full manpage)	01:06
SquOnk	blah.pl --wrong stuff --or incomplete	01:07
SquOnk	(you get a summary)	01:07