WebGUI irc logs from: 2008-06.log

--- Log opened Sun Jun 01 00:00:07 2008
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CIA-6	WebGUI: jt * r6545 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (Search/Index.pm Shop/Transaction.pm Asset/Sku.pm): some minor enhancements	00:19
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Samus_Aran	thanks all, be back later	01:07
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perlDreamer	is pb.com down?	18:42
perlDreamer	I can't get to webgui.org, or talk to the svn server	18:43
nuba	oops	18:49
perlDreamer	when JT says feature freeze, he _means_ feature freeze!	18:51
perlDreamer	No new code will be committed!	18:51
perlDreamer	time to hack the laptop. A friend of my son jumped on it, and now the LCD bezel isn't rotating smoothly.	18:52
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+Radix_	webgui.org dead?	23:10
+MrHairgrease	seems so	23:10
+Radix_	hey martin	23:10
+MrHairgrease	ah	23:11
+MrHairgrease	http://plainblack.com/index.html	23:11
+MrHairgrease	hey jesse	23:11
+MrHairgrease	how are you	23:11
+Radix_	I'm good.. about to head off to bed actually :)	23:12
+MrHairgrease	huh	23:12
+Radix_	4am here	23:12
+MrHairgrease	where are you then?	23:12
+MrHairgrease	ah	23:12
+MrHairgrease	i see	23:12
+MrHairgrease	you've been partying?	23:13
+Radix_	drank too much coke at the party tonight, so it kept me awake	23:13
+Radix_	yeah	23:13
+MrHairgrease	coke?	23:13
+MrHairgrease	i see it's time you came to the Netherlands again	23:13
+Radix_	I don't drink tea or coffee at all.. and dont drink soft drink really except at parties	23:13
+MrHairgrease	lot's of coffee here	23:13
+MrHairgrease	and beer at parties	23:13
+Radix_	so when I drink coca cola the caffeine hits me and i'm generally awake until late ;)	23:14
+MrHairgrease	heh	23:14
+MrHairgrease	I almost never drink coke	23:14
+MrHairgrease	sometime I'll buy a can or so	23:14
+MrHairgrease	but then again, i don't have any problems sleeping	23:14
+MrHairgrease	anyway, good night	23:15
+MrHairgrease	and say hello to the dutch guy with the weird name foe me	23:15
+MrHairgrease	for*	23:15
+Radix_	heh	23:15
+Radix_	He's back in holland now actually	23:15
+Radix_	left the company just before christmas	23:16
+MrHairgrease	what was his name again?	23:17
+MrHairgrease	i forgot	23:17
+Radix_	Gooitzen	23:17
+MrHairgrease	oh yeah	23:17
+Radix_	anyhow.. i really should head off to bed.. nite ;)	23:19
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--- Day changed Mon Jun 02 2008
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@perlmonkey2	is there a specific place I need to put the templates used in the new survey, or should they just go in the sql upgrade? And where do I put the logic for upgrading old surveys to the new version?	01:33
+MrHairgrease	put the templates in a packe	01:34
+MrHairgrease	package*	01:34
+MrHairgrease	and put that in docs/upgrades/packages-76.5.11	01:34
+MrHairgrease	7.5.11	01:34
+MrHairgrease	the logic goes into the upgrade-7.5.10-7.5.11 file in docs/upgrades	01:35
@perlmonkey2	the packages look like binaries?	01:37
@preaction	they are binaries	01:37
@preaction	they're tarred	01:37
@preaction	use the webgui interface to make the packages	01:38
@perlmonkey2	oay	01:38
@perlmonkey2	k	01:38
@preaction	they're JSON hashes, which are tarred (and maybe gzipped)	01:38
@perlmonkey2	the db schema I put into the beta will be unchangeable until the next beta, right?	01:39
@preaction	see lib/WebGUI/AssetPackage for more info. and for a future addition you might want to override the importAssetData and exportAssetData routines to add collateral data	01:39
@preaction	db schema is not an API, so you can change it, add to it, whatever	01:39
@perlmonkey2	k	01:39
@preaction	(rather, it's not covered by the API freeze, but it is kinda an api)	01:39
@apeiron	preaction, I would argue that the API hides the DB.	01:39
@apeiron	Ideally, there shouldn't be any SQL in anything but a few modules.	01:40
@preaction	eh. my opinion is there are four APIs, the module API, the DB, the URL, and the templates	01:40
@apeiron	bleh. That promotes SQL to the status of 'programming language'.	01:40
@preaction	the idea is that anything you can't specifically prevent, you have to plan for	01:41
* apeiron kicks it to the curb		01:41
@preaction	no. it just means that changing the data in the database is possible outside of the module API	01:41
@preaction	it's just not a good idea	01:41
@perlmonkey2	so as long as the publicly (www_) avaialable methods don't change input and returns, anything goes?	01:43
@preaction	no. all the module API has to remain backwards-compatible	01:43
@preaction	so getSurveyQuestion or whatever you have going for those	01:43
@preaction	www_ methods don't usually get called with arguments, but if they have them, they're covered too	01:44
@perlmonkey2	GET and POST don't count as part of the API/	01:45
@perlmonkey2	?	01:45
+MrHairgrease	well, technically assets are not covered by the API freeze	01:45
+MrHairgrease	since their only plugins	01:45
@preaction	ah, that too	01:45
+MrHairgrease	only Asset.pm and Wobject.pm are	01:45
@preaction	you don't really have to worry, assets aren't under freeze	01:46
+MrHairgrease	since they provide the framework for most assets	01:46
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@perlmonkey2	oh man, so as sucky as it is that I don't have the survey absolutely perfect, it isn't the end of the world and I'll still have a bit of time to wrap it up.	02:04
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metanil	is there any AJAX library available in webgui?	02:19
@preaction	YUI connection	02:20
@preaction	www/extras/yui/build/connection/	02:20
metanil	is webgui.org is working for you guys.. both plainblack and webgui.org is not working .. (at least from my machine)	02:22
@preaction	did you read the message?	02:23
metanil	i have to wait then. :(	02:24
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@preaction	if you don't see a message than your DNS is old. we're having data center problems	02:24
metanil	oh!	02:25
@preaction	well, plainblack.com shows the message. webgui.org is pointing to a dead IP, and I don't want to go through and change everything on our nameserver to point to the message	02:26
+MrAfkGrease	good luck with the colo trouble	02:34
+MrAfkGrease	I'm heading off	02:34
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metanil	preaction: is that the yahoo user interface?	03:57
@preaction	metanil, yes.	04:13
metanil	i can see its providing its own object like menu, btton, autocomplete	04:15
metanil	(i know this question doesn't belongs to here).. is there anyway to do simple AJAX request/receive using YUI (if there's any)	04:16
@preaction	yes, YUI Connection, exactly where i told you it was. look at the YUI documentation, look for the Connection module	04:18
@perlmonkey2	metanil: YUI offers several ways to do ajax, all of them simple and wrapped in a nice event handler.	04:26
metanil	thanks preaction... awesome.. this is what i need http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/examples/connection/get.html	04:27
metanil	at least to start with	04:27
metanil	thanks again	04:27
metanil	:)	04:27
metanil	perlmonkey2: Indeed indeed.. i am looking at it.. too easy... woot!!!	04:29
@perlmonkey2	if there is a web interface to create packages, I haven't been able to find it.	04:31
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@perlmonkey2	Hmm, why wouldn't I put the templates in the upgrades/templates folder? Is it the normal way to add a new package?	04:38
metanil	i created an asset, now i want that asset to include some javascript, ( i can do it manually going through template page).. but i want to do it in general way	04:55
metanil	oops.. let me backup that question.	04:58
metanil	( i shouldn't be asking that question) :D	04:59
Radix__	Anyone know if the plainblack.com/webgui.org datacenter fire is related to ThePlanet datacenter explosion?	05:11
Radix__	http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/01/1715247&from=rss	05:12
SDuensin	Data center fire?!	05:19
SDuensin	Egads.	05:20
patspam	ouch	05:20
metanil	oops	05:49
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perlDreamer	any further updates about the data center yet?	06:19
@apeiron	perlDreamer, http://forums.theplanet.com/index.php?showtopic=90185&st=0	06:25
@apeiron	perlDreamer, Note, it's been Slashdotted, so may be slow.	06:25
perlDreamer	yeah, it's slow	06:25
perlDreamer	If there's anything I can do to help you guys, please let me know	06:26
@apeiron	perlDreamer, Not that I can think of, unfortunately. Nothing PB can do either.	06:27
perlDreamer	I'll pray.	06:36
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perlDreamer	and I'll write tests	06:46
perlDreamer	I do that when I'm nervous	06:46
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-!- apeiron changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.35-stable / 7.5.10-beta \| WRE 0.8.3 ] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org \| Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com/ \| Find JT and PB at YAPC::NA, buy tickets now! http://conferences.mongueurs.net/yn2008 \| Datacenter status: http://forums.theplanet.com/index.php?showtopic=90185&st=20 Be patient, it's been Slashdotted.		07:05
perlDreamer	okay, I need some WebGUI help with the new version control settings	07:09
perlDreamer	anyone still awake?	07:09
@apeiron	I am, but not sure how helpful I'll be in that regard as I'm not intimately familiar with that particular bit of wG.	07:13
perlDreamer	well, this would be easier if I could show you the code and test	07:13
perlDreamer	but basically, it's the product import subroutine (Shop::Products::importProducts)	07:14
perlDreamer	if it's tries to import a product that is locked, it skips it	07:14
@apeiron	I have a somewhat recent SVN checkout, will take a look.	07:14
perlDreamer	so in my test, I put a product with two variants.	07:14
perlDreamer	I _thought_ with autocommit turned on, that addChild would autocommit the asset, leaving it available for the next variant to be added.	07:15
perlDreamer	but the product appears to be locked	07:15
perlDreamer	and I don't know why	07:15
perlDreamer	and during my test script, it complains that it can't talk to spectre	07:15
@apeiron	Maybe you need to $asset->commit it?	07:16
perlDreamer	I'll try it	07:29
perlDreamer	that did it!	07:30
perlDreamer	apeiron: you rock!	07:31
perlDreamer	well, the good news is that importProducts is now tested and works	07:37
perlDreamer	the bad news is that y'all just have to take my word for it for a little while	07:37
perlDreamer	and this is undoubtedly the best reason I've heard for distributed version control	07:37
patspam	yeah seems like every man and his dog is using git now	07:40
@apeiron	perlDreamer, I don't rock, my ability to guess luckily rocks.	07:40
@apeiron	patspam, heh	07:40
@apeiron	patspam, There's that and the fact that developing an SCM has been a fad for the last few years.	07:40
patspam	heh yeah true	07:40
@apeiron	svn, svk, arch, darc, mercurial, clearcase, monotone, git	07:41
@apeiron	etc.	07:41
@apeiron	I probably missed a few.	07:41
patspam	someone did a git demo at my perlmongers meeting, looked pretty cool, but a bit of a mind-shift	07:41
@apeiron	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_revision_control_software	07:41
perlDreamer	new update from The Planet	07:41
@apeiron	Heh. I refreshed it then tabbed here.	07:42
perlDreamer	The second floor may be online tomorrow, but the first floor is really screwed	07:42
@apeiron	No, I do not know where wG's machines are.	07:42
perlDreamer	apeiron: regarding guessing. There's no way to tell between lucky guesses and strong intuition.	07:44
@apeiron	perlDreamer, True. I saw that an asset (a SKU or such, it was shop related) in Asset.t was using ->commit,.	07:44
@apeiron	So I figured I'd hazard a guess.	07:45
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@preaction	WAHOO DUSK IS BACK	12:09
BartJol	mmm strange that the servers go down when JT's on holiday, coincidence?	12:19
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@preaction	BartJol, i don't believe in coincidences. it's his pure STRENGTH OF WILL that keeps the servers in line.	12:22
@preaction	they just don't Fear me enough...	12:22
@preaction	but it's now 4:30am and I haven't slept well in days... so maybe I can get in a few hours before I have to figure out what we can do with Dusk but without www.plainblack.com and our shared hosting server... :p	12:23
BartJol	good luck	12:23
BartJol	and sleep wel preaction	12:23
@preaction	had a good idea: move files to another server in case dusk goes back down!	12:23
BartJol	backups are alwaus good	12:24
@preaction	dusk is the backup server. the problem was it went down ;P	12:26
BartJol	ah, didn't know that	12:27
@preaction	anyway. maybe sleep. hope the other side of the pond is less interesting ;-)	12:28
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ckotil	did JT pass by the datacenter on his way out?	16:13
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BartJol	ckotil, it's the other way around preaction told me, the servers neeed JT's karma aura	16:21
ckotil	yeah	16:22
* ckotil jokes		16:22
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Radix__	no, they need JT's "fear of god" presence to keep in line.	16:35
BartJol	well karma or fear aura, JT should have left some more with Graham	16:44
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SDuensin	Morning!	16:54
BartJol	webgui.org is up!	17:10
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perlDreamer	should I be worried that the Poll on webgui.org is showing data that is one week old?	17:55
@tavisto	gah	17:57
perlDreamer	note, there's a smaller version of the planet forum page: http://forums.theplanet.com/lofiversion/index.php/t90185.html	17:59
BartJol	mm lot of things going up in smoke lately	18:06
BartJol	the faculty of architectre in Delft too	18:06
BartJol	perlDreamer, how's you back?	18:07
-!- apeiron changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.35-stable / 7.5.10-beta \| WRE 0.8.3 ] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org \| Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com/ \| Find JT and PB at YAPC::NA, buy tickets now! http://conferences.mongueurs.net/yn2008 \| Datacenter status: http://forums.theplanet.com/lofiversion/index.php/t90185.html Be patient, it's been Slashdotted.		18:10
@apeiron	perlDreamer++ Thanks. :)	18:10
perlDreamer	BartJol: better but healing.	18:11
BartJol	well, take it easy then	18:11
perlDreamer	But I can pick up my kids, sleep at night and do the necessary home maintenance	18:11
perlDreamer	so I'm not complaining :)	18:11
BartJol	and write tests	18:12
BartJol	?	18:12
perlDreamer	oh yes, test writing and Shop hacking	18:14
BartJol	ok, then you should be ok :)	18:15
nuba	whoa, hot stuff @ theplanet, huh?	18:23
@apeiron	Yes indeed.	18:24
perlDreamer	nothing like an electrical explosion to warm things up	18:24
nuba	yeah. i was reading the other day about how data centers, and the internet, in general, contributes to global warming	18:27
nuba	i guess it can be said this one contributes a little more than the rest	18:28
nuba	http://green-broadband.blogspot.com/2008/05/excellent-report-on-internet-data.html	18:29
perlDreamer	brb	18:30
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topsub	hello, i have a question about the security, how can you have someone able to edit and add new assets under lets say a folder?	19:25
topsub	we have a folder called "pdfs" and we created a group for these users who we want to do this but we dont' want them to be able to mess with the asset tree and such	19:25
perlDreamer	topsub: you have to find a way to make sure that 1) they can add files to the folder, but 2) aren't allowed to turn on admin	19:27
perlDreamer	I think you can modify the default Folder template to accomodate that	19:27
topsub	hmm	19:28
topsub	on the folder i said "who can edit" publication editor" ( name of the group i created for these users )	19:28
topsub	so they can edit any pdfs fine. but not able to add file assets to this folder. does that mean i need to beef up there group or something?	19:29
perlDreamer	topsub: I'm guessing that the template, and not the perl code, is stopping your users from adding folders.	19:33
topsub	ah	19:33
topsub	hmm maybe not because when i go to add a file asset it saying permission denied	19:34
topsub	i have an interface that creates my URL for me	19:35
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topsub	I believe i just need to figure out what says who can add assets and what says they can edit	19:37
topsub	they have a drop down list for edit files but not for adding files under the asset	19:37
topsub	hmm if i add the user to "Secondary Admins" they are not able to add assets.	19:39
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perlDreamer	topsub: try adding your "publication editor" group to the Asset Add Privileges section in the WebGUI config file. Then restart apache and see how you fare.	20:14
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+MrHairgrease	hey, pb.com is back	22:54
@preaction	a neutered version, but the real frozen is back so we'll be switching back over shortly	22:58
@preaction	so then we'll have SVN and all our other services back	22:58
@tavisto	doug, I told you putting that slip n' slide in the server room was a bad idea...	23:13
@preaction	tavisto, not my fault you got too drunk to slip n' slide and you started run n' ram instead	23:15
@tavisto	those transformers were talking smack	23:16
@preaction	i still have no idea how that thing exploded after you spilled your martini on it. i mean wow	23:16
@tavisto	now give me my bottle back	23:16
@preaction	you can get your bottle back after you pry the pieces out of the building next door	23:16
@tavisto	too much work.. time for www.beerdelivered.com	23:16
+MrHairgrease	did I hear beer?	23:17
+MrHairgrease	good idea!	23:17
@tavisto	damn, was hoping that service and website existed...	23:17
@preaction	don't click, it's not real	23:17
@tavisto	unfortunately it doesn't... (atleast at that URL)	23:17
@preaction	you got my hopes up... prepare to die!	23:17
@apeiron	bah, squatter	23:17
@tavisto	nooooooo!	23:17
@apeiron	preaction, 3, 2, 1, sudo ping -f!	23:17
@apeiron	tavisto, You have no chance to survive, make your Freenode cloak.	23:18
@tavisto	wait a minute.. there's hope!	23:18
@preaction	H4X0R H15 G1B53N!	23:18
@tavisto	www.beerrightnow.com	23:18
@tavisto	although, if MrHairGrease goes there then you can kiss productivity goodbye	23:18
@tavisto	for a week.	23:18
* MrHairgrease already has beer right now		23:19
+MrHairgrease	how does that hamper your productivity	23:19
+MrHairgrease	for a week	23:19
@tavisto	it doesn't when you only have 1, or 5	23:19
+MrHairgrease	i still don't get the connection	23:20
+MrHairgrease	now if you were to go with me	23:20
+MrHairgrease	that's a different story...	23:20
@tavisto	I'm saying that you consume a lot of beer already, and if it was delivered to your door... you wouldn't be sober enough to code :)	23:22
+MrHairgrease	i don't drink that much at home	23:23
+MrHairgrease	i just imply that to keep up the eurotrash appeal	23:23
+MrHairgrease	=)	23:23
perlDreamer	No, he only drinks at the office	23:24
@tavisto	hehe well that's good because drinking at home alone is a great indication that one is an alcoholic	23:24
perlDreamer	that way it doesn't interfere with his coding	23:24
@tavisto	I should say binge drinking alone at home	23:24
+MrHairgrease	so you're saying you can only be an alcoholic when you have a binge at home? =)	23:26
@tavisto	uh no..	23:26
* MrHairgrease tries very hard to not understand tavis, just to mess with him		23:27
@tavisto	dont make me come over there..	23:27
+MrHairgrease	wat du fak!?!?	23:28
@tavisto	:)	23:28
+MrHairgrease	i hope the railroad union will also be in madison in the end of august	23:28
+MrHairgrease	I'll forever associate the wuc with guys wearing denim form head to toe...	23:29
@tavisto	oh dear god	23:31
@tavisto	I have to say that guy was entertaining.. I honestly think you guys just come to the WUC for the stories.	23:31
+MrHairgrease	are there other reasons to go?	23:32
+MrHairgrease	I better know so I can warn the other 12 Dutch people coming along	23:33
perlDreamer	It's always cool to see Frank drunk, or hung-over.	23:33
+MrHairgrease	or hear jt ask him through the phone " Frank, why are you still alive?"	23:34
+MrHairgrease	=)	23:34
@tavisto	hehe Frank the Tank is my hero.	23:34
+MrHairgrease	mine too	23:34
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+MrHairgrease	yay, there a thunderstorm right in front of my window	23:37
+MrHairgrease	pretty cool sight	23:37
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perlDreamer	tavis, you business-type yayhoo	23:51
perlDreamer	it's taken me two days to register for OSCON as an attender	23:51
perlDreamer	actually, it's not your fault	23:51
perlDreamer	It's O'Reilly	23:51
perlDreamer	They're not using the EMS, so they're system will only let you have one kind of ticket	23:52
perlDreamer	Once I was entered in as an exhibitor, then I couldn't also register for the conference	23:52
perlDreamer	unless y'all paid for it	23:52
+MrHairgrease	talking about business yayhoos	23:53
+MrHairgrease	tavis, when is the oqapi success thingy ghoing to be placed?	23:54
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--- Day changed Tue Jun 03 2008
perlDreamer	WebGUI, this is Houston. You are cleared for SVN.	00:01
@preaction	Roger, Houston. Confirmed Go for SVN.	00:01
+MrHairgrease	houston, has a problem	00:03
+MrHairgrease	webgui.org goes to plainblack.com	00:04
+MrHairgrease	www.webgui.org works ok btw	00:04
@preaction	dns propagation probably. we had to hijack the real records to put up the outage message, and then put up the clone of frozen	00:05
+MrHairgrease	ok	00:06
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perlDreamer	nice tests, apeiron	00:33
perlDreamer	Where do they get cleaned up at the end of the test?	00:33
@apeiron	Where, in Asset.t?	00:34
perlDreamer	yeah	00:34
@apeiron	They're under a version tag, $versionTag4 .	00:34
perlDreamer	I see	00:34
perlDreamer	I'm used to seeing the versionTag getting commited	00:34
@apeiron	hrm. That was an omission on my part--is there any reason to commit it specifically?	00:35
perlDreamer	I don't think so, although sometimes addChild will puke on a parent in the wrong state	00:36
@apeiron	The tests run, pass, and leave a pristine asset tree afterwards, if those are your concerns.	00:36
@apeiron	ah.	00:36
perlDreamer	but that was before the commit change	00:36
perlDreamer	WebGUI, this is Houston. We confirm reception of SVN data.	00:47
perlDreamer	It's good that you're back online.	00:47
perlDreamer	is pb.com email working?	00:51
@tavisto	yeah	01:01
@tavisto	we have a separate mail solution not hosted at the planet	01:01
@tavisto	MrHairGrease, do you know if existing products will be migrated into the new e-commerce engine in 7.5.11?	01:02
perlDreamer	tavisto: They will.	01:03
perlDreamer	it works now	01:03
perlDreamer	I used one of Tiffany's stores to test it out :)	01:03
@tavisto	seriously?	01:03
perlDreamer	yeah	01:03
perlDreamer	I emailed her, and she said sure	01:03
perlDreamer	so I got a dump of her db	01:03
perlDreamer	and practiced upgrading	01:03
@tavisto	oh okay	01:03
@tavisto	how did it go?!	01:03
perlDreamer	Clean.	01:03
perlDreamer	very nice	01:03
@tavisto	wow	01:03
@tavisto	that makes me feel good considering I'm probably going to have to do that for amla	01:04
@tavisto	how about the templates used in the checkout.. are there a ton of new ones now?	01:04
perlDreamer	you'll need to ask rizen about that	01:04
@apeiron	No, Tavis, it worked for pd because he applied special pd magic.	01:04
@apeiron	You'll have to slog through it.	01:04
perlDreamer	but, if he was as thorough as he had me do, then it should end up being just fine	01:05
@apeiron	perlDreamer, btw I did receive your email, looking at it now	01:05
@tavisto	What the hell... Chris are you still here? I thought Kaleb fired you already	01:05
perlDreamer	okay, I am a notorious kibitzer so tell me to jump in a hole if I'm out of line.	01:05
@tavisto	you were a bad gopher!	01:06
perlDreamer	Fine, I'll go talk with Isaac and Julie then. Maybe Captain Stubing will let me steer the ship for a while.	01:07
@apeiron	pfft	01:07
@apeiron	perlDreamer++	01:07
@apeiron	perlDreamer, karma tavisto	01:07
@apeiron	er	01:07
@apeiron	perlbot, karma tavisto	01:07
perlbot	tavisto doesn't have any karma	01:07
+MrHairgrease	perlbot karma perldreamer	01:10
perlbot	Karma for perldreamer: 26	01:10
+MrHairgrease	perlbot karma mrhairgrease	01:11
perlbot	Karma for mrhairgrease: 3	01:11
+MrHairgrease	hmmm	01:11
+MrHairgrease	perlbot karma rizen	01:11
perlbot	Karma for rizen: 3	01:11
+MrHairgrease	haha	01:11
+MrHairgrease	it seems i'm not doing too bad after all	01:11
@apeiron	perlbot, karma preaction	01:11
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perlbot	Karma for preaction: 19	01:11
@apeiron	.. heh	01:11
@apeiron	perlbot, karma apeiron	01:11
perlbot	Karma for apeiron: 68	01:11
@apeiron	<3	01:11
perlDreamer	apeiron: tavisto has no karma	01:14
perlDreamer	He is a karma sinkhole	01:15
@apeiron	tavisto-- # now he's not	01:15
@tavisto	rizen only has 3 karma so I dont feel bad	01:16
@apeiron	You have -1.	01:16
@tavisto	how the crap do you earn karma in here	01:16
@tavisto	and if Chris has it then I dont want it	01:16
perlDreamer	karma is awarded by others for doing cool things	01:16
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perlDreamer	obviously, apeiron is cooler than thee	01:16
@tavisto	must be earned by driving around in a kidnapper van offering candy to neighborhood kids	01:17
@tavisto	shame on you apeiron	01:17
@apeiron	What? pfft. I'm lazy. I'd sooner just offer it Halloween style.	01:17
perlDreamer	preaction: that is some nasty i18n namespace	01:19
CIA-6	WebGUI: doug * r6546 /WebGUI/ (13 files in 8 dirs):	01:21
CIA-6	WebGUI: added: Two new approval activities, byLineage and byCommitterGroup	01:21
CIA-6	WebGUI: added: Show a message to users when they log in	01:21
CIA-6	WebGUI: fixed: Gallery search form doesn't work right in IE6	01:21
CIA-6	WebGUI: fixed: Minor bug in new gallery approval handling	01:21
perlDreamer	https://sourceforge.net/community/cca08-badge?project_name=WebGUI&project_url=http://www.webgui.org/wg/contribute	01:28
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perlDreamer	Go nominate WebGUI	01:36
@apeiron	yay, login to nominate	01:36
@apeiron	Like I remember the sf.net userid I never use. =\	01:36
@apeiron	ick.	01:38
@apeiron	sf.net-- # requiring me to create an ID even after I logged in via OpenID... isn't that the entire point of OpenID?	01:38
perlDreamer	the things we do to promote WebGUI	01:39
perlDreamer	actually, wouldn't wG do the same thing?	01:42
perlDreamer	it might authenticate you remotely, but you still need a valid userId/account	01:42
@apeiron	Oh. Right.	01:44
@apeiron	I'm misremembering what OpenID is for.	01:44
@apeiron	"we're not an authentication layer!" and all that. Despite being exactly like one in every respect.	01:44
perlDreamer	well, it _would_ be nice if it made the account for you and prepopulated it with your openId creds/info	01:44
perlDreamer	cap10morgan: are you listening? :)	01:44
@apeiron	heh. But sf isn't that smart.	01:44
@apeiron	(which is why I never use SF, that and the fact that its SCMs are down more than they're up)	01:45
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cap10morgan	perlDreamer: heh	01:45
cap10morgan	i am now!	01:45
cap10morgan	apeiron: openid is an identification service, not authentication	01:45
perlDreamer	so for the wG openId plug-in, does it make you create an account after first login?	01:45
@apeiron	cap10morgan, Yeah, except for the fact that it looks and acts just like authentication in every way. :)	01:45
cap10morgan	auth is still handled by the thing you're trying to get yourself auth'd into	01:46
perlDreamer	cap10morgan: (asking ignorantly); What's the difference?	01:46
cap10morgan	apeiron, it's nearly always used in an authentication situation	01:46
cap10morgan	that's why	01:46
cap10morgan	perlDreamer: here's how it works...	01:46
@apeiron	"name and password" to me indicates "authentication".	01:46
cap10morgan	you go to a site, it asks you to login	01:46
cap10morgan	now, there's two things it's trying to check:	01:46
cap10morgan	1. you are who you say you are (identification)	01:46
cap10morgan	2. you're allowed to login and do stuff (authentication)	01:47
@apeiron	Heh. I've always heard 1 referred to as authentication.	01:47
@apeiron	And whether you're allowed to do things is authorization.	01:47
@apeiron	yay overloading terminology in related fields!	01:47
cap10morgan	apeiron: err, that's probably right	01:47
cap10morgan	:)	01:47
cap10morgan	yeah, that makes more sense given the words anyway	01:48
cap10morgan	far as i understood, openid was only authentication, not authorization (using the better terms)	01:48
cap10morgan	but are they claiming they are not authentication somewhere?	01:48
perlDreamer	cap10morgan: Does WebGUI have an "authorization" for login rights?	01:49
cap10morgan	the fact that you have an account, i would guess	01:50
cap10morgan	normally w/ openid, you still have to register your openid at a particular place before it grants you authorization	01:50
cap10morgan	(or be granted by the admin, or whatever the policy is for that site / service)	01:51
@apeiron	bleh. I know I've seen somewhere that a page said "we're not an authentication layer".	01:51
@apeiron	Trying to find such.	01:51
cap10morgan	they're not _authentication_	01:51
cap10morgan	d'oh!	01:51
cap10morgan	sorry, mixing my terms again	01:51
cap10morgan	hahahaha	01:51
cap10morgan	apeiron: let me know if you find it	01:51
perlDreamer	no, it makes sense now. I might have a VISA card saying I'm Donald Trump, but that doesn't work in an AMEX only store.	01:51
cap10morgan	yep	01:52
@apeiron	Despite the fact that it acts exactly like authentication, it's not. And that's confusing.	01:52
@apeiron	(when I say "it acts exactly like authentication", I mean strictly from the user perspective: enter your username and password)	01:53
cap10morgan	well, i think it _is_ authentication	01:53
cap10morgan	i'd be very surprised if they were claiming they weren't	01:54
@apeiron	heh	01:59
@apeiron	http://simonwillison.net/2007/Jan/10/account/	01:59
@apeiron	"Just treat it as an alternative to a traditional username and password and you can't go wrong."	02:00
@apeiron	.... well... obviously I have...	02:00
@apeiron	http://www.openid.org/ "Log into sites such as LiveJournal, [...]"	02:02
@apeiron	That's not helping the matter.	02:02
@apeiron	Hmm. Apparently OpenID 2.0 will let you log in.	02:07
@apeiron	... which, er, isn't that not the point of the original OpenID?	02:08
* apeiron is very confused. oO		02:08
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@preaction	openID 1.0 was just identification, not authentication. the system is only as strong as its weakest point	02:41
@preaction	and OpenID 1.0 was the weak point: Someone who professes to own THISURL made this post	02:41
@apeiron	heh	02:41
@apeiron	So in other words the OpenID developers basically created a system that was fail by design.	02:42
@preaction	not really, it wasn't design for authentication. it was just for the blogosphere	02:42
@preaction	but then YADIS came and OpenID became part of that and people wanted more, authentication, profiles, personal data exchange	02:43
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metanil	i need an idea.. i want to add additional information while creating files.. like author, description, DocumentID, RefID.. and other info as well.	04:08
@apeiron	File assets, yes?	04:08
metanil	would creating new asset similar to Asset::File is ok?	04:08
@apeiron	That's what I would suggest, yes, though perhaps the more experienced here may have a better idea.	04:09
metanil	hmm... (i am thinking of creating one then)..	04:10
@preaction	if you are, see about using 7.5. the Asset::File is easier to subclass in that one	04:15
patspam	is it just me or is webgui.org 50% faster post outage?	04:45
@preaction	just you. it's still the same box. maybe not too many people are using it	05:06
patspam	maybe it needed a day of rest?	05:11
@preaction	at my expense? that was selfish of it...	05:17
@preaction	i oughta teach it a lesson by making it blow up again	05:17
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perlDreamer	svn is down again?	06:54
@preaction	perlDreamer, possibly. graham is switching the temporary frozen back to the old frozen	06:58
perlDreamer	tough day	07:03
perlDreamer	my IRC password gets changed/rejected	07:03
perlDreamer	no SVN	07:03
perlDreamer	what happens next?	07:03
@preaction	svn server just isn't running, but i don't want to mess with it	07:04
@preaction	our datacenter explodes?	07:04
@preaction	that would suck	07:04
perlDreamer	ah	07:04
perlDreamer	already happened :)	07:04
@preaction	hmm... what else is there?	07:04
perlDreamer	tavisto shaves his head?	07:04
@preaction	good lord... the world would impode on itself	07:05
perlDreamer	frank and jt and chris and kaleb and steve and graham all quit?	07:05
@preaction	as long as i have vrby, i think we can manage	07:06
@preaction	they're albatrosses, weighing me down man	07:06
perlDreamer	it's hard to fly like an eagle, when you're stuck with albatrosses	07:07
@tavisto	what the	07:09
@tavisto	don't make me come down there	07:09
@preaction	who the?	07:09
perlDreamer	where the?	07:12
@preaction	HOW	07:12
perlDreamer	Something has really been bothering me for a while	07:14
perlDreamer	How does Hawkman fly in outer space, where there's no air?	07:14
@preaction	telekinesis	07:16
@preaction	solar wind	07:16
perlDreamer	bean burritos	07:16
@preaction	so lunar wind?	07:16
@preaction	i mean, it comes from where the sun don't shine	07:16
+Radix-wrk	you have wierd thoughts pd	07:18
@tavisto	wow I can't believe this hockey game... triple overtime now	07:19
@tavisto	preaction, I just got off a conference call with amla and we're going to push through the upgrade	07:19
@preaction	uh... huh? they're on 7.4.21?	07:20
+Radix-wrk	doesn't hockey have the concept of a tied game? or is this a grand final or something?	07:20
@tavisto	not in the playoffs	07:20
@tavisto	if Detroit wins... they win the stanley cup	07:20
perlDreamer	tavisto, if you're talking to 7.5, I think that would not be wise.	07:20
@preaction	i would agree with the wise Dreamer	07:21
perlDreamer	we'll be testing for at least another month, maybe longer due to this outage	07:21
@tavisto	wait a sec... are you saying	07:22
perlDreamer	7.5.11 is not ready for prime time yet	07:22
@preaction	if they have travelled past 7.4.21, they cannot go to 7.5.anything yet	07:22
@tavisto	oh dear God when does this end	07:22
perlDreamer	In July	07:23
@tavisto	they're already on the beta server	07:23
@tavisto	for PB	07:23
perlDreamer	that's fine, they're on 7.5.10	07:23
@tavisto	yeah	07:23
perlDreamer	It's just the commerce stuff, Shop	07:23
@tavisto	it's been working okay	07:23
@preaction	what's "push through the upgrade" then?	07:23
perlDreamer	7.5.10 will work fine	07:23
perlDreamer	yeah!	07:23
@tavisto	to 7.5.11	07:23
@preaction	when it's released, you mean?	07:23
@tavisto	yeah, june 12th	07:23
@tavisto	it's been applied right?	07:23
@tavisto	or has that been pushed back	07:24
@preaction	applied?	07:24
@tavisto	installed on beta	07:24
@preaction	no	07:24
@preaction	we don't install anything that isn't released	07:24
@tavisto	is 7.5.11 going on plain black's beta server on june 12th still?	07:24
perlDreamer	rizen doesn't even get back until the 12th, right?	07:24
@tavisto	Graham told me june 12th	07:25
@preaction	9th	07:25
perlDreamer	it will take longer than three days to 1) Finish up tests, 2) Fix currently broken tests 3) Do user level testing	07:25
@tavisto	I would be very happy if we decided to wait to install it on PB's beta server to a later date	07:25
@preaction	tavisto, that's probably correct, but that's Graham's pidgeon, so he's the authority there	07:25
@tavisto	well the plan is that on June 12th the upgrade will take place and then AMLA's current SQL reports and e-commerce process will break	07:26
@tavisto	AMLA will pay PB to fix the SQL report (the one you saw doug(	07:26
perlDreamer	tavisto, should you be talking about that on a public channel?	07:27
@tavisto	and then I'll be working with one of their peeps to fix/tweak/change the current e-commerce process into a working one with the new e-commerce system	07:27
@tavisto	I dont see why it matters	07:27
@tavisto	upgrade strategy needs feedback :)	07:28
@preaction	tavisto, this place is logged	07:28
@tavisto	okay?	07:28
@preaction	i dunno either	07:28
@tavisto	so are you guys telling me that you don't think this is going to	07:28
@tavisto	be a good idea to push thru with this upgrade... or do you think I should backup their site and jump to a VPS for 3 months	07:29
@preaction	i think it's a good idea to keep going with the upgrade, i just forgot what you meant	07:29
perlDreamer	I think the date needs to be pushed back. We haven't had SVN access for 3 days.	07:29
@preaction	as far as i'm concerned, the feature freeze is pushed back for the time being	07:30
@tavisto	are you guys going to voice that opinion then to Rizen/Graham?	07:30
perlDreamer	Haarg: We haven't had consistent SVN access for over 3 days. I think the release date needs to be pushed back.	07:30
@tavisto	hehe	07:30
@preaction	i'm going to be working on gallery bugs and the new asset manager until the release	07:30
@tavisto	LOL he's been quiet I know	07:30
perlDreamer	preaction: I have failing Gallery and Utility tests when I run the suite on my laptop	07:31
perlDreamer	did I already email that to you?	07:31
@preaction	perlDreamer, yeah, i'll be getting to that tomorrow if i'm not preempted by server problems or client problems	07:32
@preaction	maybe i'll have time to figure out why the hell the test server is dead	07:32
@tavisto	what the crap doug e fresh... making code with bugs? I thought you were better than that	07:32
@preaction	oh, did you want a login? i can make you one real quick	07:32
perlDreamer	gotta crash out. More hacking tomorrow.	07:33
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metanil	$asset->get('size'); will return the file size .. isn't it?	07:37
@preaction	get('assetSize') i think	07:39
@preaction	not just the file size, the size of the whole storage location. so it may not be 100% accurate	07:39
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BartJol	he preaction how are the rest of the servers doing, don't see the api or i18n yet? Just for curiosity, not to be a irritating person that keeps nagging...	11:58
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BartJol	is the one called bepo here?	12:49
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BartJol	still no bepo?	15:51
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SDuensin	Greetings.	16:13
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slickware	hey all	16:19
slickware	'morning	16:19
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BartJol	morning	16:25
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BartJol	no bepo yet?	16:49
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slickware	anyone here that can give some advice on a template issue I am having	18:57
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wgGuest16	what is the irc server for this channel? I'm connected through the java and I'd prefer to use my own client	20:56
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Giant81	I'm about to connect to the webinar, but I didn't receive the login info I thought I was supposed to	20:59
Giant81	can anyone here help me?	20:59
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bopbop	wgGuest16: https://na1.connect.acrobat.com/plainblack	21:09
bopbop	sorry, that was for wgGuest81	21:09
Giant81	no problems... thank you	21:10
Giant81	i'm connected now, but its pretty slow	21:10
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@apeiron	Giant81, This is irc.freenode.net in case you didn't know.	21:56
@preaction	you cannot escape freenode's influence on the FOSS world.	22:01
@preaction	SUBMIT	22:01
@preaction	SUBMIT	22:01
perlDreamer	I just want my password back.	22:01
perlDreamer	oh, and SVN	22:03
perlDreamer	maybe some money, too	22:03
perlDreamer	not much	22:03
perlDreamer	just a couple of 100K$	22:04
slickware	someone giving out money?	22:04
slickware	i'll take some	22:04
perlDreamer	and I want a picture of a "kitteh"	22:05
slickware	i'm not as greedy as perlDreamer though. like 50k$ is fine with me	22:05
slickware	kittehies we gots. www.slickware.net/kitteh.jpg	22:06
perlDreamer	ah, well how about a war kitteh?	22:18
ckotil	perlDreamer: the thging about SVN and passwords is, it will store your password in a plain text file in yur home dir.	22:19
perlDreamer	ckotil: freenode has changed my password without telling me	22:19
ckotil	thats no good.	22:19
perlDreamer	no	22:20
perlDreamer	how are things in the NOC?	22:20
ckotil	pretty good	22:21
ckotil	We're trying to put a huge flashing light in the NOC for when an alarm event happens	22:22
ckotil	but i doubt the service desk would go for that	22:22
slickware	GM is considering selling off the Hummer brand	22:22
ckotil	they're closing a few plants too	22:22
slickware	Mr. Wagoner, chief exec of GM, stated that this the possible sale of the Hummer line will also include the introduction of many new vehicles including the new sporty Teabag, the gas sipping Rimmer, the family friendly Menage' mini-van and the Chaps pick-up (with an open backside).	22:22
slickware	that made my day - I had to forward it along :-D	22:23
ckotil	heh	22:23
perlDreamer	ckotil: I recommend visiting a truck stop to get the light. You can get some sweet lookin' 12V replacement lights for trucks there.	22:28
perlDreamer	Get one that doubles as a signal/marker light and you can have two colors :)	22:29
perlDreamer	then, you can pick up/hack up a high current driver to handle the load of the light and enable the driver with a low current pin off of a parallel port.	22:30
ckotil	yeah, we would need about 8 colors	22:30
ckotil	yah, that would be awsome	22:30
slickware	hey all - I have a templating question that i've been headaching over all day	22:33
perlDreamer	okay	22:33
slickware	I'm the reject that's still hung up on v5.x so this is probably a stupid question	22:34
slickware	(trying to learn 7)	22:34
slickware	I've followed the community wiki on creating your own template/style	22:34
slickware	I created a /root/themes folder	22:34
slickware	but for some reason, it didn't show up the first time I created it. So I created another one, and now there is only one Themes folder, but it is telling me the path to it is /root/themes2	22:35
slickware	I can't see an other one to delete it, and now all the paths to the files IN that folder are incorrect	22:35
perlDreamer	slickware: do you have any pending version tags?	22:36
slickware	I turned off versioning - I hate it	22:36
slickware	haha	22:36
slickware	I basically run a single user webgui, so I don't want/need it	22:36
perlDreamer	well, here's the deal, you really do have two themes folders	22:37
slickware	i'm sure I do	22:37
perlDreamer	if you request a URL that is in use, WebGUI will change the URL so that it's unique	22:37
slickware	here's a second question then -	22:37
slickware	how can I fix the contents of the "new" folder so that their paths are correct? even if I try to access them at /themes2/images/name.jpg, they still don't work	22:38
slickware	is there some way to recursively re-populate the URLs for the contents of a folder?	22:38
perlDreamer	do you mean /root/themes2/images/name.jpg?	22:38
slickware	yeah	22:38
ckotil	you can recursively re populate urls via the batch edit.	22:39
slickware	or /root/themes2/themename/images/name.jpg	22:39
slickware	etc	22:39
perlDreamer	well, I would skirt the issue and try to find the original themes folder, using the Asset Manager search function	22:39
perlDreamer	and then move the stuff from themes2 into themes and get rid of themes	22:39
slickware	smart	22:39
slickware	a search only brings up the Themes folder with the themes2 path, however	22:40
perlDreamer	Are you familiar with SQL?	22:41
slickware	yes, but I'd prefer not playing with it	22:41
slickware	ckotil: how do you batch edit?	22:41
perlDreamer	this would just be a query	22:42
perlDreamer	SELECT assetId from assetData where url like '%themes%';	22:42
ckotil	slickware: ive never used version 5, but in 7 if you click 'More' in the asset manager you will be presented with the batch edit option	22:43
slickware	I am using 7	22:43
ckotil	ok cool	22:43
slickware	I was just stating that i'm used to 5	22:43
slickware	i'm assuming I want "edit branch"	22:44
perlDreamer	Yeah	22:44
ckotil	:x	22:44
slickware	no clue what my params should be though	22:44
ckotil	batch, branch	22:44
ckotil	yeah, its very tricky	22:44
slickware	specified base/parent URL?	22:44
ckotil	do you have a test instance?	22:44
slickware	I want to love v7... but it's so hard	22:44
slickware	haha	22:44
ckotil	you might play around with it on the demo server	22:44
slickware	this is basically a demo	22:44
slickware	it's my learn-to-use-it demo	22:45
nuba	shouldnt complain, at least its hard	22:46
slickware	I get enough emails for 80% off viagra, even if it wasn't hard, I wouldn't have an issue	22:47
nuba	lol	22:47
slickware	man I wish this had a description	22:47
slickware	i've managed to erase my path, then make it /root/root/root/themes, and now everything is on its own level	22:48
perlDreamer	slickware, what do you wish had a description?	22:48
slickware	none of which are correct	22:48
slickware	the branch-edit feature	22:48
perlDreamer	Have you tried the wiki?	22:48
perlDreamer	or are you talking about hover help for individual fields in there?	22:48
slickware	I think I got it	22:49
slickware	now everything appears to be appropriately labeled as root/themes2/foldernames	22:49
slickware	so now - when building a template, should my image paths be:	22:50
slickware	domain.com/themes2/theme/images	22:50
slickware	or	22:50
slickware	domain.com/home/themes2/theme/images ?	22:50
perlDreamer	neither	22:50
slickware	lol	22:50
slickware	ok	22:50
slickware	the wiki seems to imply the latter	22:50
perlDreamer	you just said the base url is /root/themes2	22:51
slickware	yes	22:51
slickware	which is where the wiki recommends putting your themes folder	22:51
perlDreamer	so, it would be /root/themes2/theme/images	22:51
slickware	so domain.com/root/themes2/etc...	22:51
perlDreamer	if that's where you put it	22:51
slickware	I thought you didn't actually have to name the 'root' folder	22:51
perlDreamer	it depends on what you set the URL to	22:51
perlDreamer	remember that URLs in WebGUI are not tied to hierarchy	22:52
slickware	I remember, frustratingly	22:52
perlDreamer	you can have a folder /here containing a second folder called /there	22:52
perlDreamer	both top level URLs, but different hierarchy	22:52
slickware	right	22:52
slickware	so I literally include the entire URL that I see in the asset manager	22:52
slickware	i'm going to edit that damn wiki later	22:53
slickware	it doesn't help that none of the graphics on it work anymore	22:53
slickware	oh fabulous it works... woo	22:55
perlDreamer	the asset manager doesn't show you URLs, it shows you hierarchy in the crumb trail	22:55
slickware	I know - but they are called URLs	22:55
Giant81	has anyone tried to install on ubuntu 8.04?	22:55
slickware	in the manager	22:55
Giant81	I tried the forums but didn't find anybody having problems	22:55
perlDreamer	preaction: I tried to use Manage from the editing toolbar and got an invalid operation.	22:56
slickware	giant81: i'm running 7.10 and didn't have issues using the WRE	22:56
Giant81	either that is a good thing and noone is having problems and it works... or noone is using it in which case there could be issues	22:57
Giant81	I need to download mysql and apache before I use the wre	22:57
perlDreamer	the wre has those in it	22:57
perlDreamer	already	22:57
slickware	yeah	22:58
Giant81	ahh ok	22:58
slickware	you can literally install ubuntu, do an apt-get update, and install the WRE	22:58
slickware	optionally installing something like webmin if you so desire	22:59
perlDreamer	and in Debian, you can apt-get install webgui	22:59
slickware	debian users have all the fun	22:59
slickware	last question before I go home	23:09
slickware	I've got an "^AdminBar;" tag in my template (without quotes), but no adminbar is showing up	23:09
slickware	all my other macros are ok	23:10
perlDreamer	do you have admin mode turned on?	23:12
slickware	yes (i'm not THAT bad)	23:12
slickware	does it need to be in a specific div tag or be associated with a specific css?	23:13
perlDreamer	I always ask for the low hanging fruit first, I don't mean to insult you.	23:13
slickware	I know - I was mostly joking - I can take it	23:13
perlDreamer	I don't think so. Is it in the page source and just not rendering right?	23:13
slickware	i'll check source	23:13
slickware	<script type="text/javascript">	23:14
slickware	//<![CDATA[	23:14
slickware	var slider = new createSlidePanelBar("WebGUIAdminBar");	23:14
slickware	var panel;	23:14
slickware	i'm assuming that means it's there, and not showing up right	23:14
perlDreamer	yeah, that looks right	23:14
perlDreamer	you must be having a markup clash	23:14
slickware	cool	23:14
slickware	I always liked the Clash	23:15
perlDreamer	yeah, my Perl::Critic policy is running!	23:15
slickware	any idea how to fix that clash?	23:17
perlDreamer	not really	23:17
slickware	heh	23:17
perlDreamer	my web design skills aren't very good.	23:18
perlDreamer	apeiron: I used Path::Class for the first time today and learned a valuable lesson.	23:21
@apeiron	perlDreamer, Hm?	23:21
perlDreamer	Not all modules stringify arguments before using them :/	23:21
* apeiron nods		23:22
perlDreamer	but a manual stringify fixed that	23:22
perlDreamer	surprisingly, Perl::Critic runs really fast when it can't find a specified config file :)	23:22
* apeiron snickers.		23:22
perlDreamer	and I'm ready to commit the new, correct-but-slow i18n test using Perl::Critic	23:23
@apeiron	Ah, does it use Path::Class?	23:23
perlDreamer	yes	23:23
slickware	I wish I knew/understood more about CSS... I prefer hard code any day	23:23
perlDreamer	my $label_profile = Path::Class::File->new( WebGUI::Test->root , 't', 'i18n', 'perlcriticrc'); Test::Perl::Critic->import(-profile => $label_profile->stringify);	23:23
@apeiron	perlDreamer, Very cool, I <3 it.	23:23
slickware	figured it out - you need the tmpl.var for the <head> to be there	23:24
slickware	I just assumed it was for something else and left it out	23:24
perlDreamer	it must preload a bunch of JS and style sheets	23:24
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slickware	ok, seriously last question. what happened to the "change all pages below to this style" option?	23:36
slickware	I want to change the template for my home page and all pages beneath	23:36
perlDreamer	that's in edit branch	23:37
slickware	ok	23:37
slickware	thought you used to be able to do it from the page-edit /display menu	23:37
perlDreamer	Yes, but then the function was generalized and expanded into Edit Branch	23:38
slickware	gotcha	23:39
@preaction	anyone familiar with the commerce Address Book know if the WebGUI::Shop::AddressBook::www_view method is supposed to always have a ?callback query param?	23:39
perlDreamer	sorry, that's a rizen question	23:41
perlDreamer	although it looks like all it does is set some hidden form vars	23:41
BartJol	or a MrHairgrease maybe	23:41
perlDreamer	No, AddressBook is Herr Rizen	23:41
@preaction	yeah, i was trying to help steve make a new template for that, but turns out you can only get to it from the cart	23:41
@preaction	he figured it out though, so no worries, just wondering if i found a problem	23:41
slickware	alright. Thanks everyone. hope the weather is as nice wherever you are as it is in Boston	23:42
slickware	enjoy your afternoons or properly adjusted world-time	23:42
perlDreamer	preaction: potentially a bug. I know he's been kicking it around for general purpose use beyond the Shop.	23:42
* slickware peaces out		23:42
perlDreamer	hack on, slickware	23:42
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BartJol	any idea when the api sit will be up again?	23:43
BartJol	or i18n?	23:43
perlDreamer	BartJol, the hosting company is continuing to have problems	23:43
perlDreamer	now with the temporary equipment failing	23:43
perlDreamer	I have the feeling it's going to be a while	23:43
BartJol	ok	23:43
perlDreamer	SVN is also down	23:44
BartJol	well, a fire is bound to have some impact on their facilities	23:45
perlDreamer	It blew up three walls in the facility	23:45
perlDreamer	PB.com go boom	23:45
perlDreamer	meanwhile, rizen is blissfully unaware on a cruise ship in the North Pacific	23:45
@preaction	we're getting frozen moved to another facility, so we'll hopefully have it soon	23:46
BartJol	Hopefully for him he's unaware	23:46
@preaction	soon being before christmas	23:46
perlDreamer	does frozen host all those functions?	23:46
BartJol	whoa	23:46
@preaction	yes	23:46
BartJol	we have some nice servers too	23:46
perlDreamer	Are they scheduled to blow up, too?	23:46
BartJol	yeah, but only when we host pb	23:47
BartJol	we had enough fires here lately	23:47
BartJol	4 in 1 month	23:48
perlDreamer	no way! You gotta be kidding!	23:48
BartJol	well, 2 in student houses, one in a hotel and one in the faculty of architecture	23:49
BartJol	the first 3 probably related by a pyromaniac	23:49
BartJol	last one not, that was a short circuit in a coffee machine	23:50
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Giant81	so webgui is in the repository for debian stable?	00:15
perlDreamer	it's in whatever Lenny is	00:15
perlDreamer	http://www.plainblack.com/tbb/webgui-going-into-debian-lenny	00:15
Giant81	then no... lenny is testing	00:16
BartJol	but will be stable in time if I understand correctly, but I couldn't find whether the wre installation is included or whether it is only WebGUI itself	00:24
perlDreamer	it's a little of both	00:24
perlDreamer	it includes dependencies on apache, mod_perl, mysql, and the perl modules	00:25
perlDreamer	but it doesn't build a website by default, yet	00:25
BartJol	well, most people won't need that	00:25
perlDreamer	we need SquOnk to give us a tutorial next time he's in here. maybe a wiki page or forum post	00:25
@preaction	it doesn't include the WRE itself, from what i know, squonk is building his own helper scripts for addsite and removesite and such	00:25
BartJol	would be a bit too much maybe	00:26
BartJol	yeah	00:26
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@preaction	i don't know if they're in lenny yet, i think he's waiting for lenny+1	00:26
BartJol	but if you use a shared webserver only for WebGUI, it probably would be wise to use the wre and install webgui with that?	00:27
@preaction	i still would, because of what the WRE provides	00:28
@preaction	the helper scripts	00:28
@preaction	update scripts	00:28
@preaction	the monitor	00:28
@preaction	the WRE console	00:28
BartJol	they're quite helpfull yes	00:29
@preaction	however, if you're just adding WebGUI to an existing installation (that happens to be on Debian), then "sudo apt-get install webgui" is nice to have	00:30
perlDreamer	Doesn't the WRE claim performance enhancements over your standard, vanilla distribution binaries as well?	00:30
perlDreamer	Stripped down and light-weight	00:30
@preaction	yeah. anything that isnt needed by webgui is removed	00:31
BartJol	I don't deny that, only want to know what way I should go	00:31
BartJol	when installing	00:31
@preaction	imho, for mainly WebGUI server, the WRE. if WebGUI is going to only be a small part, source will probably work fine	00:31
BartJol	well, we're trying to split those now we're going virtual server	00:33
@preaction	so resources are at a premium, i'd go WRE	00:34
BartJol	so we get a webgui-wre combination or something else what the client desires	00:34
@preaction	you'll probably end up tweaking some of the apache settings to keep resource consumption low (especially during idle times)	00:35
BartJol	when a server is dedicated to one WebGUI site, it is a decision whether you waant the build in functions of the wre, but is there a downside of using the wre, performance speaking?	00:37
@preaction	the WRE is tweaked for webgui performance. anything that isn't needed for webgui isn't compiled in. InnoDB in the mysql server, for example	00:38
@preaction	it shaves the memory overhead (which will probably be your bottleneck)	00:38
BartJol	Ok, so I should go into tweaking wre	00:38
BartJol	well	00:38
BartJol	I don't know, just interested, Koen is mostly busy with that kind of issues	00:39
@preaction	your limiting factor, rather. ("Growth is limited by that necessity that is available in the least amount")	00:39
perlDreamer	time	00:39
BartJol	beer?	00:40
@preaction	so 16G of memory in 2G chunks gives you 8 VPS on a box. If you can get away with 1.5G, you can add 3 more VPS on that box	00:40
BartJol	mine is empty	00:40
BartJol	it will depend on the circumstances I understand	00:41
BartJol	how surprising :)	00:41
@preaction	personally, i would go with some sort of clustered system with a NAS for storage, then divide the resources with a VM system. probably a rather large initial expense, but it would be virtually bulletproof	00:42
@preaction	make a clone / backup and put it in a different datacenter (preferably on the other side of the country), and you might be able to avoid just about any catastrophe short of Armageddon	00:42
BartJol	I'm not sure which storage we have for our virtual environment	00:43
* preaction amuses himself by thinking up server architecture		00:43
BartJol	we're working on that system with some nice hgardware	00:43
BartJol	but it goes a bit above m,y understanding	00:43
@apeiron	preaction++ # incidental prodding to finish reading Dune	00:44
BartJol	you can borrow mine	00:45
@preaction	apeiron, how did i do that?	00:45
@apeiron	preaction, <preaction> your limiting factor, rather. ("Growth is limited by that necessity that is available in the least amount")	00:45
BartJol	the first one that is	00:45
@apeiron	That's apparently a Frank Herbert quote.	00:45
BartJol	oh	00:45
BartJol	short memory	00:45
perlDreamer	will PB making changes due to the server snafu?	00:46
@preaction	apeiron, that's a basic law of environmental science, but yes	00:46
perlDreamer	geographic redundancy?	00:46
@preaction	perlDreamer, from what I hear from vrby, we'll be looking at an off-site storage location for backups	00:46
@preaction	the problem was that we couldn't survive both a server going down AND dusk (the current backup system) going down	00:46
@preaction	so with a second, redundant backup, we'll be better able to survive a catastrophe	00:47
perlDreamer	hm. Looks like there are still some false negatives in the Critic policy for labels	00:49
@apeiron	Better than false positives, I'd say, aye?	00:50
perlDreamer	May be some of those, too.	00:50
BartJol	they don't compensate each other?	00:51
perlDreamer	It's been running about 2.5 hours, and it's up to Form and contents	00:51
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perlDreamer	would it be sheer lunacy to try and space out the modules in sbin/testEnvironment.pl? so that modules, versions, and flags were columnar?	00:57
BartJol	I think everyone is baffled by the lunacy of your genius....	01:00
perlDreamer	must be	01:00
perlDreamer	I've been Warnocked!	01:01
BartJol	I don't have a clue what you're talking about...	01:01
perlDreamer	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warnock%27s_Dilemma	01:01
perlDreamer	perlbot: warnock is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warnock%27s_Dilemma	01:01
perlbot	added warnock to the database	01:01
BartJol	Ah, so I almost participate in the warnocking, but stating my ignorance is perventing it	01:03
perlDreamer	yes	01:06
perlDreamer	although, you didn't state whether or not you think it's a good idea or not, so you are Warnocking	01:06
BartJol	well, m,y cluelessness was actually referring to both Warnocking and columnising testEnvironment	01:07
BartJol	bed time for me	01:42
perlDreamer	'night	01:42
BartJol	thanks	01:42
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@apeiron	Wow, color shots from Phoenix on Mars: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/images/new-latest-images-collection_archive_1.html	01:57
@preaction	it's not red!	02:10
perlDreamer	it's not full of starts either	02:12
perlDreamer	um, stars	02:12
@preaction	that's one of Saturn's moon	02:12
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metanil	i saw this in session::form "A full set of form params just as you'd pass into any of the form controls when building it." . what does it mean?	02:38
metanil	what set of form params?	02:39
metanil	form parameters are the name itself, aren't they?	02:39
perlDreamer	they can also be things like defaults	02:40
perlDreamer	filter settings	02:40
perlDreamer	and so on	02:40
@preaction	basically the arguments you'd use to a WebGUI::Form::Control object	02:40
metanil	oh ok..	02:41
@preaction	most of the time you don't need them, it can DWYM, but sometimes you need other things, like to pre-select a storageId for a File control	02:41
@preaction	(so it doesn't create yet another one)	02:41
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metanil	sweet	02:42
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@khenn	I've been instructed to ask:	03:17
@khenn	who added the "cancelling commit" nonsense to WebGUI?	03:18
@preaction	cancelling commit? huh?	03:21
@khenn	I don't know, I got an email from JT blaming me for adding "cancelling commit" nonsense to WebGUI	03:25
@khenn	so I'm trying to figure out who did it	03:25
@preaction	i don't even know what it is.	03:26
@khenn	me either	03:26
@khenn	and I can't see svn	03:26
@khenn	so I don't know how he knows	03:26
@preaction	it must've gone in before	03:27
@preaction	or he keeps track of the RSS feed for commits	03:27
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@apeiron	khenn, Do you know which file(s) it's in?	03:58
@khenn	no	03:58
@khenn	all I got was "canelling commit" nonsense	03:58
@preaction	i changed some of how approval worked, but it was with his approval	04:00
@preaction	i'm not seeing anything in the API to cancel a commit	04:01
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perlDreamer	hey, all	06:19
@apeiron	Greetings!	06:20
perlDreamer	khenn, I'm afraid that I'm the person you're looking for	06:20
perlDreamer	cancelling commit is part of an RFE that I put in	06:20
perlDreamer	but rizen approved it	06:21
@preaction	where is it then? what is it?	06:21
@khenn	JT says to email him and explain yourself	06:21
@khenn	oh and you are supposed to undo it	06:21
perlDreamer	I can't undo it	06:21
perlDreamer	no SVN	06:21
@khenn	I guess I'd email him first if he approved it	06:21
perlDreamer	preaction, check out Operation/VersionTag, line 310	06:21
perlDreamer	It's part of a handling problems with spectre	06:22
@preaction	ahh	06:22
@preaction	cancel the commit if it can't reach spectre	06:22
perlDreamer	If you ask for a commit, and can't talk to spectre, then instead of leaving the tag in limbo, it just sets the tag back to pending	06:22
perlDreamer	yeah	06:22
perlDreamer	I'll email JT and take my lumps	06:22
@preaction	yeah, that's unnecessary now: everything happens in realtime until a certain number of seconds have passed	06:23
@preaction	eh, that changed only a little while ago, whereas you might've gotten approval before that	06:23
@preaction	so just a matter of crossed wires	06:23
perlDreamer	yeah, I'd suggest running svn blame, but that won't work either :)	06:23
perlDreamer	so why is it unnecessary now?	06:24
perlDreamer	If you can't talk to spectre, then why would you allow a commit to be processed?	06:24
@preaction	because Commit Without Approval has one activity. that one activity can be done in a few seconds, spectre will never know anything about it, since it'll be done in realtime	06:26
@preaction	all workflows are realtime until they take too long	06:26
perlDreamer	wow	06:27
perlDreamer	Okay	06:27
@apeiron	mmm	06:28
@apeiron	About the svn blame thing, would svk still work if offline?	06:28
perlDreamer	and what happens if it takes too long and spectre is down?	06:28
perlDreamer	apeiron, no idea	06:28
@apeiron	perlDreamer, heh, likewise	06:28
@preaction	perlDreamer, if it takes too long and spectre is down then it goes to spectre. but since spectre is an external process, you'd still want to keep the WorkflowInstance in the table until spectre returns	06:29
@preaction	i mean, that's my opinion of course	06:29
@preaction	a warning like "Unable to contact spectre, your commit may take longer than expected" would be nice	06:29
perlDreamer	but that would only be necessary if the defer takes place	06:30
perlDreamer	I know y'all submitted to have frozen moved, is there an estimate for when it will be done?	06:31
perlDreamer	I'll revert it right out of SVN after it's back up.	06:31
@apeiron	heh	06:31
@apeiron	I think we should make a plan to stagger our commits once frozen is back up. I'm sure we've all got some stuff we're itching to ci	06:31
perlDreamer	I think it's a good time for Haarg to teach us all git :)	06:32
@apeiron	nevar	06:32
@preaction	apparently i didn't submit the ticket correctly, since the instructions they gave were inconsistent with what i was seeing, so i had to resubmit the ticket	06:32
@apeiron	svk for lief!	06:32
@preaction	so now i don't know when	06:32
perlDreamer	email to JT away, I'm sorry if I caused you guys problems	06:35
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elnino	good evening! I'm just curious about the asset manager and the javascript webgui used from mattkruse, and was wondering what field in the db you use the store the ranking field for the assets listed in the asset manager?	07:23
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-!- test is now known as apeiron		07:28
@preaction	elnino, the ranking field is also the last 6 characters of the asset's lineage (located in the asset table)	07:37
elnino	ok that would explain why I couldn't find a ranking field in the db schema. Thanks!	07:37
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metanil	to get parent asset, will getLineage(["self","ancestors"],{returnObjects=>1}); do??	07:50
@preaction	metanil, $asset->getParent	07:51
metanil	and how to use ancestorLimit .. to return only parent (not grand parent)	07:51
@apeiron	You should be able to do ->getParent, no?	07:51
metanil	oh oh	07:51
metanil	sweet	07:51
metanil	:D	07:51
@preaction	you can theoretically go all the way up the stack that way	07:51
@apeiron	'theoretically'	07:51
@preaction	it's not recommended, since they're instanciated no matter what	07:52
metanil	even $asset->getParent?	07:52
@apeiron	Once is fine.	07:52
metanil	:)	07:52
@apeiron	But a dozen, probably not.	07:52
metanil	yeah.. thats what also think	07:54
metanil	how to create boolean template variable so that i can do <tmpl_if var_name>	07:58
metanil	can we do $vars{'var_name'} = 0 or 1	07:58
@apeiron	perlbot, tias	07:59
perlbot	Try It And See: the best way to learn if something works.	07:59
metanil	ok.. that'll also help :)	08:00
metanil	it worked	08:10
metanil	thanks.	08:10
metanil	do need to have any boolean kind of thing,, just checking the variable whether it was set in pm file or not	08:10
@preaction	it's perl's notion of truth	08:11
@preaction	perlbot false	08:11
perlbot	undef, 0, "", "0"	08:11
@preaction	perlbot true	08:11
perlbot	Anything that isn't false. see "false"	08:11
metanil	then i guess i learn a new thing in perl..	08:15
metanil	thanks guys..	08:15
metanil	time to take a nap	08:16
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@tavisto	perlbot is wonky	08:53
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@apeiron	perlbot perlbot	10:21
@apeiron	... what	10:21
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ckotil	haha. just got rick rolled on the phone!	16:19
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Giant81	I just installed a debian server named 'webgui' to use as my webgui server	17:25
Giant81	I installed wre and eveyrthing went fine	17:25
Giant81	I added a site and named it p1stest	17:25
Giant81	how do I access it?	17:25
slickware	heh	17:26
slickware	for now, you can access it by IP	17:26
Giant81	I tried p1stest.webgui.rph.int	17:26
slickware	http://ip.address.of.machine	17:26
Giant81	and I get "it works" by apache	17:26
slickware	otherwise, you need to set up some DNS	17:26
slickware	did you install apache on debian?	17:26
Giant81	I think webgui did it for me	17:27
slickware	right - but -	17:27
slickware	if you let debian install apache, it will run both the default apache AND the WRE apache	17:27
slickware	and you'll have issues	17:27
slickware	see if you can stop the apache service	17:27
Giant81	so I need to shutdown the non wre apache	17:27
slickware	yea	17:27
slickware	and give yourself a pat on the back for making it that far	17:28
slickware	haha	17:28
Giant81	wre is pretty easy to setup... most of the issues I had were getting vmware tools installed	17:28
slickware	if you have something like webmin installed, it'll be easy to tell if apache is on/running	17:30
Giant81	I went to /etc/init.d and did an apache stop	17:31
Giant81	and now I see nothing when I go to the IP... the wre and debian apache are seperate installs right?	17:32
BartJol	yeah	17:35
slickware	did you load the wreconsole and make sure everything is running in there?	17:36
Giant81	it was running before... let me double check	17:38
slickware	I had a weird issue where my services would stop when I stopped the console	17:38
BartJol	cool	17:38
Giant81	brilliant	17:38
Giant81	modproxy was not started.. though I'd seen it started before	17:38
slickware	heh... don't ask me to program... but I can get the Wre running	17:40
BartJol	well a macro is quickly written:	17:42
BartJol	package WebGUI::Macro::HelloWorld;	17:42
BartJol	use strict;	17:42
BartJol	sub process {	17:42
BartJol	return "Hallo gast";	17:42
BartJol	}	17:42
BartJol	1;	17:42
BartJol	my first baby	17:42
slickware	ha	17:55
slickware	so useful, thanks :)	17:55
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slickware	question for anyone there...	18:09
BartJol	I'm someone... I think	18:10
slickware	I've edited the styles on my entire site - only - when a user goes to log in, the admin?op=auth;method=login page still displays the old style	18:10
BartJol	user login style	18:11
slickware	how do I fix the style of that page?	18:11
BartJol	user function style i mean	18:11
BartJol	in the settings	18:11
slickware	is it a page template?	18:11
BartJol	it is a setting where you choose a template	18:11
slickware	oh ok	18:11
BartJol	it's in the tab UI	18:11
slickware	got it	18:12
slickware	next question: my rich edit doesn't seem to have any font-formatting buttons	18:12
slickware	is that normal (because the CSS controls everything?	18:12
BartJol	any? like no bold and italic too?	18:13
BartJol	normally most things are indeed controlled by css	18:13
BartJol	maybe those buttons exist if you maximise the rich edit features	18:14
BartJol	not sure	18:14
slickware	hmm	18:14
BartJol	import node->richedit->yourrichedit	18:14
BartJol	or whatever it's called	18:14
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slickware	I have bold and italic	18:15
BartJol	ok	18:15
slickware	but I don't have font or size	18:15
BartJol	I'll have a look	18:15
slickware	which I guess is probably a good thing, because then it all stays the same	18:15
slickware	but font size does seem like a strange thing to not have	18:16
BartJol	you can turn it on	18:17
BartJol	go to the asset manager	18:17
BartJol	click root->import node-> RichEdit	18:18
BartJol	there are 2 default editor settings	18:18
BartJol	just make a copy of the content mangers richedit	18:18
BartJol	edit the copy	18:18
BartJol	are you there yet?	18:19
slickware	sorry stepped away - lemme chec	18:20
Giant81	how do I get to make demo's with webgui after I install it? I've turned on the demo's under wre console	18:20
BartJol	sorry Giant81, never tried, wouldn't know	18:20
Giant81	kk ty	18:21
slickware	awesome	18:22
slickware	thanks bart	18:22
BartJol	no problem, given a presentation on the subject last year at the wuc, comes in handy right now :)	18:23
slickware	how is the WUC	18:23
BartJol	nice	18:23
slickware	i'm considering it this year	18:23
slickware	but i'm in Boston, so it's a haul	18:23
BartJol	Well, it's nearly as far as the netherlands	18:24
slickware	haha	18:24
slickware	touche'	18:24
slickware	there seems to be a huge netherlands/webgui thing	18:24
BartJol	yeah	18:24
BartJol	we like it as an excuse to show americans that we can drink more and better than them :)	18:25
BartJol	but serious, there are a couple of companies here that use WebGUI for a long time	18:25
BartJol	help develope, host it, give support, so we like some contact (and maybe influence) on the whole project	18:26
* Giant81 is from wisconsin		18:27
* Giant81 takes that challenge		18:27
* Radix_ is from Australia.		18:27
BartJol	so wuc next yera will be in the netherlands	18:27
slickware	wow	18:27
BartJol	Giant81 is bound to be at the wuc then	18:27
+Radix_	need more Aussies in here.. me and patspam seem to be it so far ;)	18:27
slickware	you guys definitely have better beer, i'm not surprised you can drink more	18:27
Giant81	if I can get my employer to pay for it... yes	18:28
Giant81	its right in town here in Madison	18:28
Giant81	but I don't have the money to go	18:28
slickware	how much is the conference itself?	18:28
+Radix_	US$500 from memory	18:28
Giant81	Wisconsin is nice, a very large German population with lots of micro breweries and good beer	18:29
Giant81	yeah	18:29
BartJol	atherwise it's somewhere on webgui.org/wuc	18:29
BartJol	yeah, the Essen Hause was cool	18:29
+Radix_	Giant81: you should write a talk/presentation for the WUC then - then you get in free I believe	18:29
slickware	hahaha	18:29
BartJol	Radix_ are you coming this year?	18:30
slickware	I would only talk about how I still like version 5x better than 7x :-D	18:30
BartJol	we missed you...	18:30
+Radix_	or perhaps offer your services to help out in setting things up, cleanup, etc perhaps? dunno	18:30
+Radix_	BartJol: wish I could, it sounds like this year is going to be big with all the new stuff in 7.5	18:30
BartJol	ah the "Be JT's slave for a weekend arrangement"	18:31
BartJol	sounds like a no	18:31
+Radix_	I've got to plan a big wedding for next year tho (Yumi and I are getting married) - so can't plan any big trips atm	18:31
BartJol	ah, can the dutch crew come?	18:32
BartJol	to the wedding?	18:32
+Radix_	heh.. if you can make it over here you're welcome!	18:32
+Radix_	Actually we'll probably be doing two weddings.. one here and one in Penang, Malaysia	18:32
BartJol	have to do something with my days off	18:32
BartJol	jee	18:33
Giant81	I may end up volunteering to help setup etc...	18:33
BartJol	simultaneously?	18:33
BartJol	mail graham or ask Haarg (that's the same)	18:33
+Radix_	BartJol: that'd be interesting.. how exactly would that be accomplished tho ;)	18:33
BartJol	dunno, big video screens... instant transportation, stuff like that	18:34
+Radix_	heh	18:34
+Radix_	I think the penang one will more than likely just be a reception - lots of food for her aunts/uncles/family back home.. the wedding itself will be here	18:35
+Radix_	then we'll head off somewhere for our honeymoon	18:35
+Radix_	still needs lots of planning atm anyway.. all we've determined so far is that it'll be next year sometime! :)	18:36
BartJol	but then you need a break from planning and go to the wuc	18:36
slickware	is it a good time? how much of a crowd is there	18:38
slickware	(the wuc, not the wedding0\	18:38
BartJol	around 50-100, don't remember exactly	18:39
BartJol	from which around 10 dutch persons	18:39
BartJol	I think around 70 last year	18:40
BartJol	but it's hard to estimate	18:40
BartJol	it's a very good time, there are talks this yera for beginners, admins and developers, so always something interesting	18:41
BartJol	and a nice bar in the hotel	18:41
slickware	haha	18:41
slickware	that's not as large as I would have expected actually	18:41
+Radix_	highly recommend it also.. It gave me a chance to answer all the questions I had and see how everyone else was using webgui in fascinating ways	18:42
BartJol	well it was a bit smaller than I did expect last year	18:42
BartJol	but that's only good for getting the chance to talk to everyone	18:42
BartJol	and ask questions ask Radix mentioned	18:42
BartJol	to show nice stuff you did	18:43
BartJol	but have to go, have to network for a new house and the work for today has been done	18:45
BartJol	see you around	18:46
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+Radix_	I'm off to bed also.. nite	18:46
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slickware	maybe I will have to plan on it for next year	18:54
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perlDreamer	Only in the Netherlands: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080604/ap_on_fe_st/mooning_mishap;_ylt=As5lpOzsqT_LK3OX0Jkfi6as0NUE	20:13
slickware	I think I can top that	20:19
slickware	:-D	20:20
slickware	http://youtube.com/watch?v=BmZpH6RWGI4&feature=related	20:20
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@apeiron	http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html media channel has Phoenix updates.	21:03
@preaction	svn should be back now, for those of you waiting to make commits	21:04
perlDreamer	talked with rizen, he says it's okay to warn people about spectre being down on commit, but not to cancel the commit	21:05
perlDreamer	I'll hold off my commits until this afternoon, PDT-wise	21:05
@apeiron	preaction++ # Houston, SVN is a go	21:07
@preaction	pfft, blame me for failing to make the init.d script work and having to start it manually. it could've been up hours ago	21:07
perlDreamer	Dude, it's working. That's all that matters.	21:07
* apeiron nods.		21:08
@preaction	actually, i blame redhat for their "service" command not telling me WHY my script wasn't working (didn't have the +x bit)	21:08
perlDreamer	The only questions now are 1)git or SVK, 2) when we switch	21:08
@apeiron	I say leave the repo itself as svn, then developers can use whatever they want.	21:09
@apeiron	I personally find git to be as awkward as CVS.	21:09
@apeiron	Or worse.	21:09
perlDreamer	I haven't used either, but Haarg digs git over svk after using both for a while.	21:10
@apeiron	There're some technical issues with svk, but for me, git is emacs-style awkward.	21:11
@preaction	imho svk seems like a hack over svn, whereas git was designed to be distributed	21:12
@preaction	but me, i've tried bazaar and i like it	21:12
perlDreamer	you're forgiven, as a penance, burn two copies of the Emacs users manual	21:13
@apeiron	I don't think it would matter which client developer X or developer Y uses if we use the SVN FS, since so many clients can speak to it.	21:15
perlDreamer	but if the SVN goes down again, can SVK and git push across to one another?	21:16
perlDreamer	in other words, are we still vulnerable to the same problem?	21:16
@apeiron	hmm	21:17
@apeiron	I don't think so.	21:17
@apeiron	well	21:17
@apeiron	You could do it manually.	21:17
@apeiron	i.e., tar up the SVK depot directory, mail it.	21:17
perlDreamer	yeah, that's advantage of homogeneity. If it's all git, then we just stop pushing to main and start pulling from one another.	21:18
perlDreamer	I don't know how SVK would work, probably similarly.	21:18
@apeiron	I dunno. If we standardize on git, I might write a porcelain for it to present a more comfortable interface.	21:20
* perlDreamer commits to reading the stuff that Haarg sent out about git intro for SVN users		21:20
@Haarg	what part of the interface don't you like apeiron?	21:22
@apeiron	Haarg, The way the commands are named, the ugly ugly ugly URL syntax, other stuff.	21:22
@Haarg	i don't think you can push/pull from other svk repositories easily	21:22
@Haarg	which url syntax do you mean?	21:22
@apeiron	I think in terms of 'checkout' 'update' 'checkin', not 'push' 'pull 'clone'	21:22
perlDreamer	I think this is the URL: http://git.or.cz/course/svn.html	21:26
@Haarg	that's getting used to git if you are familiar with svn	21:31
@Haarg	if you are using git like i do, with a svn backend, then there's this: http://utsl.gen.nz/talks/git-svn/intro.html	21:32
perlDreamer	ah, thanks Haarg. I saw this talk at OSCON last year, but had forgotten about it.	21:35
perlDreamer	Sam is a good presenter.	21:35
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wgGuest52	hello	21:35
wgGuest52	i am nwb just installed on my virtual server wreconsole is working can someone help	21:37
slickware	what's your question wgGuest52?	21:37
wgGuest52	hi slick m not sure everything working just testing right now services all ok now how can i publish website	21:39
wgGuest52	or begin working on website	21:40
@apeiron	wgGuest52, Did you add a site via the WRE console?	21:42
wgGuest52	yes	21:42
@apeiron	Okay, and you've done the initial setup for that, yes?	21:42
@apeiron	Gone to that URL, done the wizard with the light blue background, etc.	21:42
wgGuest52	am still on wre console	21:43
@apeiron	You'll need to access the URL of the site you added on the console.	21:43
wgGuest52	still showing apache placeholder	21:44
perlDreamer	wgGuest52: Are you using debian?	21:44
wgGuest52	ubuntu i think i have to add dns /etjosts	21:45
wgGuest52	ubuntu i think i have to add dns /hosts	21:45
perlDreamer	okay, have you turned off the default apache that comes with ubuntu, and the mysql?	21:45
slickware	lol two of these issues today so far.	21:46
wgGuest52	not the apache cant control it with httpd have to kill process	21:47
wgGuest52	i think	21:47
wgGuest52	i have may be 10 apche processes runin	21:48
wgGuest52	16 actually	21:48
slickware	try running	21:49
slickware	/etc/init.d/httpd stop	21:49
wgGuest52	no such file	21:50
slickware	ok	21:50
wgGuest52	kill all apche proces	21:50
slickware	replace httpd in that with apache2	21:51
slickware	see if that works	21:51
slickware	and/or you might have to:	21:51
slickware	sudo /etc/init.d/apache2 stop	21:51
@Haarg	if you are using the wre, you would want to use the wreservice.pl script	21:51
@apeiron	Haarg, The issue seems to be a vendor-supplied httpd clashing with the WRE httpd.	21:52
@Haarg	ah	21:52
wgGuest52	aha	21:52
@Haarg	me no read good	21:52
@preaction	yeah, sudo invoke-rc.d httpd stop	21:52
wgGuest52	yes ok	21:52
@preaction	or apache2 stop	21:52
perlDreamer	or install fedora	21:55
@preaction	pfft, you and your fedora	21:56
@preaction	debian ftw	21:56
perlDreamer	ftw = foobar's the world?	21:56
@Haarg	for the win	21:56
slickware	man fedora stopped being cool back when... oh right, when it stopped being redhat :-D	21:57
wgGuest52	thanks slickware i am getting started	21:58
wgGuest52	i will play around for now bye all thanks	21:58
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slickware	how many ways are there to stop apache? the world may never know!	22:00
@apeiron	I prefer the slay utility.	22:01
* perlDreamer 1) tries init script		22:02
* perlDreamer 2) tries apache2 stop		22:02
* perlDreamer 3) tries kill -9		22:02
perlDreamer	3	22:02
@apeiron	http://pkgsrc.se/sysutils/slay	22:02
@apeiron	Do yourself a favor, do not run slay without arguments.	22:03
slickware	heh... that's an awesome command	22:04
@preaction	ps ax \| grep "httpd" \| cut -d' ' -f 1 \| xargs kill -9	22:04
@preaction	works when killall doesn't exist	22:05
ckotil	heh	22:08
@apeiron	bah grep, bah cut, bah xargs	22:09
@apeiron	You call yourself a Perl programmer?	22:09
@preaction	ps ax \| perl -anlF' ' -e'`kill -9 $A[0]`'	22:11
@preaction	one of these things is slightly more readable than the other, lets figure out which!	22:11
perlDreamer	ps -ax \| perl -lane 'kill -9 $F[0]'	22:12
perlDreamer	split on whitespace is the default	22:12
perlDreamer	and it does seem strange to invoke perl to call the shell	22:13
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@preaction	pfft. damn you and your stronger perl-fu	22:13
perlDreamer	only on the command line, preaction	22:13
@Haarg	wouldn't that try to kill every process?	22:13
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@preaction	mine doesn't have the overhead of the perl interpreter	22:13
@preaction	ha, we forgot grep	22:13
@apeiron	.... ha, oops	22:14
perlDreamer	ps -ax \| perl -lane '`kill -9 $F[0]` if /apache/'	22:14
perlDreamer	no grep needed	22:14
perlDreamer	ps -ax \| perl -lane '`kill -9 $F[0]` if /(apache)\|(httpd)/'	22:15
@preaction	no need for capturing parens there	22:15
@preaction	unless that's a PBP thing	22:15
@Haarg	i don't think pbp applies to one liners	22:16
perlDreamer	nope, just my bad	22:16
perlDreamer	so we can drop 4 more characters	22:17
perlDreamer	ps -ax \| perl -lane '`kill -9 $F[0]` if /apache\|httpd/'	22:17
@Haarg	you could also drop some spaces if you hate readability	22:17
@preaction	c'mon, you know we do!	22:18
perlDreamer	and I think this will do it all "inside" perl: perl -lane 'BEGIN{ @ARGV = `ps -ax`} `kill -9 $F[0]` if /apache\|httpd/'	22:18
@preaction	now that's just crazy	22:19
perlDreamer	and it may not even work, I haven't tested it.	22:29
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CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6547 /WebGUI/ (5 files in 3 dirs): replace the old, buggy label.t with the new, slow critic_labels.t. Add Perl::Critic and Test::Perl::Critic as optional requirements to sbin/testEnvironment.pl	23:42
Axthrower	whenever i try to use any admin function i get the error "WebGUI was unable to instantiate your style template." at the top of the page and nothing displays correctly. The content that I've created does display correctly though..	23:44
@preaction	Axthrower, something went wrong with the Admin Console style. It should not have been possible to delete it, but that's probably what happened.	23:51
Axthrower	how would I go about restoring it?	23:52
@preaction	find a backup and get it from there? make a new site and get it from there? (meaning: export it as a package and import it back into your site)	23:52
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--- Day changed Thu Jun 05 2008
Axthrower	any ideas what files i should be looking for?	00:03
@preaction	root/import/AdminConsole probably. otherwise i don't know	00:04
Axthrower	k thanks	00:04
perlDreamer	Axthrower, Would you please add a page to the wiki with how you recovered it?	00:49
Axthrower	still working on it..	01:06
Axthrower	all the files appear to be intact...	01:07
perlDreamer	Hey, maybe we should make a package of the root import node so that people can easily recover mistakes.	01:07
perlDreamer	it would need to be version specific	01:07
Axthrower	anyone know what template PBtmpl0000000000000137 is?	01:10
perlDreamer	that is a style template	01:11
Axthrower	ya.. which one	01:11
perlDreamer	that is the admin console style template	01:13
perlDreamer	select * from template as t join assetData as a on t.assetId = a.assetId and t.revisionDate=a.revisionDate where t.assetId='PBtmpl0000000000000137';	01:13
Axthrower	ya thats what i was doing.. and get NOTHING	01:14
perlDreamer	well, that means that it's gone	01:15
perlDreamer	you need to reinstanciate it	01:15
perlDreamer	what version of wG are you using, exactly?	01:15
Axthrower	7.4.39-stable	01:17
perlDreamer	ah, that's fortunate	01:17
perlDreamer	Try this.	01:17
perlDreamer	Go to the demo site, demo.plainblack.com	01:17
Axthrower	it was working fine.. people were working with it etc.. than broke it somehow	01:17
Axthrower	i dunno what they did	01:17
perlDreamer	someone deleted the style template	01:17
perlDreamer	and then cleaned it out of the trash	01:17
perlDreamer	at the demo site, create a demo site	01:18
perlDreamer	log in as admin	01:18
perlDreamer	go to the admin console	01:18
perlDreamer	find the style template in the import node	01:18
perlDreamer	set it to be a package	01:18
perlDreamer	export that package and save a copy of it	01:18
perlDreamer	in your site, import that package, and it will restore the style template	01:18
perlDreamer	Axthrower, did you follow all that?	01:19
Axthrower	yup working on it..	01:19
perlDreamer	preaction: Am I missing anything?	01:19
Axthrower	the assetId on the demo site for the admin console template is PBtmpl0000000000000001	01:21
Axthrower	i DO have that template in the database with the same html etc...	01:21
perlDreamer	bad news, they have the same Title	01:22
perlDreamer	Admin Console \| admin_console2 \| PBtmpl0000000000000001 \| AdminConsole \|	01:22
perlDreamer	\| Admin Console \| admin_console \| PBtmpl0000000000000137 \| style \|	01:22
perlDreamer	good news, using the namespace OR the URL, you can tell them apart	01:23
perlDreamer	I filed that as a bug: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/admin-console-templates-have-the-same-title#JmcWxembbTkZWVWd2Q4YPQ	01:25
Axthrower	ok so i found that 137 on the demo site.. how do i make it be a package?	01:26
perlDreamer	Edit the template, and select the Metadata tab	01:27
Axthrower	ah ok	01:27
Axthrower	yup that worked..	01:32
perlDreamer	the whole thing? cool!	01:33
Axthrower	the entire "style" folder was missing out of the import node	01:34
perlDreamer	If that's so, then repeat the procedure with the Style folder and make a package out of it.	01:37
Axthrower	thats what i did the first time..	01:38
Axthrower	i assumed the worst =P	01:38
perlDreamer	good call	01:38
Axthrower	i wanted nothing todo with the webdev project.. so i setup the stuff gave full access to the developer..	01:39
Axthrower	OBVIOUSLY a bad idea.	01:39
Axthrower	http://216.20.64.232/~rharhen/Style.pm.patch changes i made to style.pm to figure out what was missing.. if anyone is interested	01:45
perlDreamer	Axthrower, please submit that as a bug with the patch	01:46
perlDreamer	I'm sure it will be accepted.	01:46
Axthrower	done..	01:53
Axthrower	allright thanks for the help all	01:53
Axthrower	have a good night	01:53
perlDreamer	good night	01:53
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@apeiron	Wow, people actually use epic these days, instead of just make jokes about how people don't use it?	02:03
perlDreamer	apeiron, you see anything wrong with applying that patch?	02:06
@apeiron	Put some spaces aroudn the operators so it follows WGBP and then it'd be fine.	02:07
* apeiron loathes "string"."string"		02:07
perlDreamer	what do you usually use instead?	02:07
@apeiron	operand operator operand	02:07
@apeiron	always	02:07
@apeiron	"string"."string" is trying to hide what's going on, IMO.	02:08
perlDreamer	I usually use join, or sprintf	02:09
perlDreamer	Well, my Perl::Critic policy does not obey scope	02:13
perlDreamer	I'll need to fix that	02:13
perlDreamer	I thought I'd already done that, and the skeletal code for supporting it is there, but the key pieces are not.	02:14
@apeiron	Scope?	02:14
perlDreamer	say you have a module with two subs	02:14
@apeiron	Also, for the curious, the WGBP practice I'm mentioning is in chapter two, under "operators".	02:14
perlDreamer	each sub makes an i18n object to its own i18n namespace	02:15
@apeiron	Right.	02:15
perlDreamer	but the scanner checks the WHOLE file for i18n calls under namespace1, which is wrong	02:15
perlDreamer	it should reset at the end of the sub, or enclosing scope	02:15
* apeiron nods.		02:15
perlDreamer	That's why I said it was ignoring scope	02:16
@apeiron	ah.	02:16
perlDreamer	hm, there's a perlcritic channel over on irc.perl.org	02:21
perlDreamer	maybe I should ask over there	02:21
perlDreamer	'cause I remember why I never finished that code	02:21
perlDreamer	Perl::Critic would need to be reentrant	02:22
perlDreamer	since I need to interrupt it's parsing	02:22
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@apeiron	Crap, it's Tavis. Everyone run!	03:41
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ToddB	Hello anyone there that can help with install question	05:31
+Radix-wrk	ToddB: Best thing to do is ask your question.. and wait... if someone can help they will - but due to everyone on different time zones it may not be immediate.	06:51
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perlDreamer	I'm working on reverting the cancel commit stuff now	07:41
perlDreamer	it's all done	07:53
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CIA-6	WebGUI: patspam * r6548 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (20 files in 7 dirs): WebGUI_flux: Added Operator base class and 2 Operator modules with tests	11:29
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6549 /WebGUI/ (7 files in 5 dirs): web interface for importing and exporting products. Additional tests for the import/export API	11:29
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6550 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (4 files in 3 dirs): revert the patch that checked spectre and canceled the commit if it could not talk to it	11:29
CIA-6	WebGUI: patspam * r6551 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (16 files in 7 dirs): WebGUI_flux: added Operand module, and two sample Operands, with tests	11:29
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BartJol	aaah need API	15:24
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BartJol	is there a method in the api to reload a page? searching in the pod takes a bit long if you don't know where to look	16:07
BartJol	call me lazy	16:07
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SquOnk	Hi everyone	17:28
SquOnk	Quick question.	17:30
SquOnk	While packaging for Debian, one of the issues is using the Debian packaged YUI instead of the WebGUI "piggy-backed" one...	17:30
SquOnk	...I've set that up already, but need to know how to properly test if everything is working fine.	17:31
SquOnk	What elements of WebGUI require YUI?	17:31
ckotil	I think the admin console web interface	17:32
ckotil	I would stick with the WebGUI packaged YUI	17:32
ckotil	lots of elements in YUI are beta	17:33
ckotil	so who knows what has changed and will cause problems for webgui by using the debian packaged one	17:33
SquOnk	ckotil: The Debian packaged one is exactly the same as WebGUI's piggibacked one :-)	17:33
SquOnk	ckotil: I just want to make sure that the symlinks I've set in place are the right ones :-)	17:34
ckotil	ah	17:35
SquOnk	ckotil: Debian won't allow "wholesale software copying" so both YUI and TiniMCE2 must be linked to the ones already in Debian.	17:36
SquOnk	ckotil: The rest of the WebGUI included JS is copied verbatim.	17:36
SquOnk	Well, the left admin bar works fine.	17:36
SquOnk	Drag'n drop works fine too...	17:37
ckotil	nice	17:37
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perlDreamer	SquOnk, The Calendar and Gallery use a lot of YUI	18:17
perlDreamer	I'd recommend testing on those	18:17
perlDreamer	In 7.5.11 (not released yet), the EMS and the Shop admin functions use a lot of YUI.	18:18
perlDreamer	Also, Survey2	18:18
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Thanks	18:19
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Are there any tests for that in testCodebase?	18:19
perlDreamer	There are a few mech tests, but they wouldn't be testing Javascript, now, would they? :)	18:19
perlDreamer	for that you need Selenium or something similar	18:20
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Just asking...	18:21
SquOnk	perlDreamer: ...since I've seen pretty interesting tests in there.	18:21
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wgGuest22	Is there an easy way to just add a local file directory path as an asset to Webgui without uploading the files?	19:24
@preaction	the fileImport.pl script in WebGUI/sbin perhaps?	19:24
perlDreamer	If you can live without the Assets, passThruUrls (in the config file) will let you serve static files through WebGUI	19:26
wgGuest22	I'll need to look at that. I am trying to replace my regular apache server with WRE on CentOS5. One of the main uses I have for apache is to provide a network build path (YUM Repo) which uses automount to mount the ISO on demand. A static passthru sounds like the right approach.	19:27
perlDreamer	docs on passThruUrls are in the config file, also check the wiki and search the forums	19:28
wgGuest22	Thanks!	19:28
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slickware	hey all.	20:16
slickware	when something is deleted from the asset manager, is there a way to completely Purge it so that you can later on upload another item with the same name and path?	20:16
perlDreamer	When something is deleted, it's put in the Trash.	20:19
perlDreamer	Once it's deleted from the Trash, it's gone forever.	20:19
* perlDreamer is afk		20:19
slickware	ah	20:22
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slickware	haha it won't let me purge my entire trashcan because I have a folder in there	20:39
slickware	I had to delete the items one at a time, and the folder doesn't want to go away still	20:39
@preaction	that shouldn't be an issue, so there's probably an error in the error log	20:44
slickware	not too worried about it, i'm switching to agency hosting tomorrow so I don't ahve to deal with adminning my own damn server anymore	20:45
slickware	dealing with that is getting old, i'd rather just build the sites and be done with it!	20:45
@preaction	amen to that. let graham deal with it!	20:45
slickware	is there a way to make all titles hidden by default so users don't have to hide them every time they make a new article?	20:50
@preaction	not really. not without changing the code	20:51
@preaction	or you could change the template	20:51
@preaction	but then they'd have to pick your new template	20:51
@preaction	(do not change default templates, make a copy and change that)	20:51
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slickware	where would that setting be in a template?	21:00
slickware	I never use the defaults	21:00
ckotil	if you hide the titles at the parent level, the setting should be inherited. or edit the template.	21:03
@preaction	use the available help files to figure out what the template variable for the title is, and then remove it	21:03
ckotil	<tmpl_if displayTitle><h1><tmpl_var title></h1></tmpl_if>	21:03
slickware	i'm not sure what that means exactly, hide them at the parent level?	21:04
bopbop	slickware: a simple thing to do would be just to make a prototype of an article	21:04
bopbop	with the title hidden	21:04
ckotil	slickware: hide them at the top level , and the setting should be inherited	21:05
@preaction	yeah, but you might want displayTitle for the Page Layout	21:08
@preaction	i like bopbop's idea too, prototypes are good	21:08
slickware	I still don't know what you mean by top level. Hide them on the home page?	21:10
@preaction	he means hide them on the page Layout the articles are contained in	21:12
@preaction	if you set Display Title to No on the Layout, the Articles added to it will start with Display Title set to no	21:12
slickware	the only option on a page layout is whether or not to display the page title	21:19
slickware	which doesn't seem to assist when removing article titles	21:19
@preaction	so changing Display Title to No on the Layout doesn't automatically set Display Title to No when adding a new Article?	21:23
@preaction	Would it be evil to make an i18n message be either a string OR a subroutine that returned a string?	21:25
@preaction	we could clean up a lot of duplication that way	21:26
perlDreamer	preaction, we just need to clean up the namespaces	21:26
perlDreamer	it's going to take time	21:26
@preaction	we can't, there are sites deployed with the dirty stuff, relying on the dirty stuff. we need to maintain backwards compat somehow	21:26
@preaction	so being able to point the old i18n label to the new i18n label would solve that	21:27
perlDreamer	but at the user level it's all abstracted away, it's either code or a template var.	21:30
perlDreamer	I seriously doubt that any users are accessing i18n labels directly	21:31
perlDreamer	like by using ^International	21:31
@preaction	the International macro	21:31
perlDreamer	yeah, that's the only way for them to access stuff directly	21:31
@preaction	it's everywhere in the Gallery templates, and will be soon in the Calendar	21:31
perlDreamer	otherwise, it's either code or template vars	21:31
@preaction	also WebGUI::International::get() for field labels and such	21:32
perlDreamer	Most of those come from the WebGUI namespace	21:32
perlDreamer	In fact, ALL of them come from WebGUI or UserProfile	21:32
@preaction	but you can specify your own namespace if you want	21:32
perlDreamer	you _can_, but do you think people _are_?	21:33
@preaction	that's just it, i tend to think that if you can do something, that somebody is doing it	21:33
perlDreamer	I used to think that way too	21:33
perlDreamer	Now I think WebGUI has too much special interest code in it	21:33
@preaction	i don't think i18n is special interest, not in the way that say LDAP is special-interest	21:34
perlDreamer	No, I'm saying that 'special' use of i18n is a very rare activity	21:34
perlDreamer	and if we put shared items in WebGUI, it will work anyway :)	21:34
@preaction	are we talking inheritence?	21:35
perlDreamer	No, I'm talking about how the i18n works now	21:35
@preaction	no, i meant "shared items"	21:35
perlDreamer	It checks for user's language and namespace, then user's language and WebGUI, then english	21:36
perlDreamer	yeah, so am I	21:36
perlDreamer	if shared items are moved to the WebGUI namespace, they'll still work	21:36
@preaction	ahh	21:36
perlDreamer	wait a sec	21:38
perlDreamer	no they won't	21:38
perlDreamer	I'm confused with the English fallback	21:39
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perlDreamer	sorry, preaction	21:41
@preaction	np	21:41
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perlDreamer	It's ahrd to build inheritance with pure perl data structures	21:48
perlDreamer	maybe we could just encode a few inheritance rules in ->get	21:48
perlDreamer	and make it work the way I mistakenly thought it could	21:48
-!- tavisto [n=tavisto@pool-71-120-147-81.gdrpmi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #WebGUI		21:49
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perlDreamer	so everything fallsback to WebGUI	21:49
-!- tavisto [n=tavisto@pool-71-120-147-81.gdrpmi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit]		21:49
perlDreamer	A wobject falls back to Wobject falls back to Asset falls back to WebGUI	21:49
perlDreamer	and so on	21:49
@preaction	right, but you'd have to set up these relationships somehow, with like @ISA (which might be evil) or a package-scoped lexical or something	21:53
@preaction	but yeah	21:53
@preaction	i like the idea of inheritence in the i18n tree	21:53
perlDreamer	I don't think the inheritance rules could do in the actual i18n files	21:54
@preaction	especially since that will fix the stupid problem i made with Photo / GalleryFile (the GalleryFile asset uses Photo i18n namespace because to change it would make about 4-8 hours of work for BartJol)	21:55
@preaction	no, it wouldn't be automatic, but we could use @ISA ourselves	21:55
@preaction	it'd just be perverting the meaning a bit	21:55
perlDreamer	Yeah, I'm thinking of something much less flexible but highly contained	21:55
@preaction	resolving the inheritence by guessing inside of WebGUI::International::get?	21:57
perlDreamer	Yes.	21:57
perlDreamer	The only advantage to that is that it's all in 1 place, and out of the i18n files	21:57
perlDreamer	aside from that, I don't particularly like it	21:58
@preaction	i don't like the extra maintenance headache at all	21:58
perlDreamer	oh, and it does with with raw files of perl data which matches the current i18n system	21:58
perlDreamer	But if you push it out into the i18n files, you have to duplicate it across ALL the language packs	21:59
perlDreamer	that's not fun	21:59
@preaction	unless, if you don't find i18n/*/Namespace.pm::PARENT_NAMESPACE, you look in i18n/English/Namespace.pm::PARENT_NAMESPACE	22:00
@preaction	but that's hackery	22:00
perlDreamer	I didn't follow that	22:00
perlDreamer	that's the current English fallback that's hardcoded into ->get	22:01
@preaction	PARENT_NAMESPACE being the package-scoped variable that defines where to look after you can't find it in the current namespace	22:01
perlDreamer	well, again, custom coding in the i18n files is a recipe for disaster.	22:01
@preaction	so first it checks Language/Namespace for the i18n key. doesn't find it. Checks Language/Namespace for a PARENT, doesn't find it. Checks English/Namespace for a PARENT. Finds it, checks Language/PARENT for the i18n key	22:02
@preaction	if it didn't find PARENT in English/Namespace, it would check for the i18n key, and if it didn't find it, then it would do whatever it does currently (fall back to WebGUI namespace or whatevz)	22:03
@preaction	so it's a recursive lookup, as long as the English namespaces have the inheritence set properly	22:04
perlDreamer	that's a lot of evals per lookup	22:04
@preaction	i mean, we could also use an upgrade to add the inheritence stuff to existing languages on the system, but no matter what someting will fall through the cracks	22:05
@preaction	i'm pretty sure we could cache the results, making references to the real value from the original i18n lookup	22:06
@preaction	hell, we could probably do that now	22:06
perlDreamer	I've tried caching, it's actually slower to do the lookup than it is to do the eval	22:06
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perlDreamer	of course, I did a symbol table lookup, maybe a separate cache would be faster.	22:12
perlDreamer	but that costs you 2X the i18n memory	22:12
@preaction	i was thinking putting the reference in the correct place in the symbol table, or hell even putting the string itself there	22:15
@preaction	so that way the next time you look it up, it's where you expected it to be	22:15
@preaction	or is that like what you did?	22:15
perlDreamer	I checked to see if the entry existed in the symbol table on each get, and it if didn't, then eval the namespace to bring it into existance.	22:16
perlDreamer	You'd have to do a similar check, and then the install	22:16
perlDreamer	it would probably be slower	22:16
perlDreamer	but I've been wrong at least one other time today :)	22:17
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@preaction	eh, it's something we could try. speeding up i18n lookups by even a slight amount would be worth it	22:17
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@apeiron	2A"	22:25
@apeiron	whoops. Cat says hi.	22:25
@preaction	CAT-LIKE TYPING DETECTED	22:26
Giant81	obfiscated perl = cat code	22:26
@apeiron	CAT-LIKE PROGRAMMER DETECTED	22:26
Giant81	looks like a cat lyed down on your keyboard	22:27
perlDreamer	talented cat that can hit a shift key :)	22:28
@apeiron	Shift-up arrow, actually.	22:34
perlDreamer	very smart cat; it tried to use command-line completion	22:35
Giant81	ok freebsd is retarded	22:37
Giant81	every 3rd package it says I need to swap disks	22:37
* Giant81 downloads the DVD for next time		22:37
@apeiron	heh	22:37
@apeiron	You're not supposed to install packages when you install the system, don't you know that?	22:38
Giant81	appearantly	22:39
Giant81	its a virtual machine no less... so I haveh to go through like 3 menus to tell it to mount a different iso for the CDrom drive	22:39
* Giant81 deletes his bsd image and starts over		22:39
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perlDreamer	tavisto: Are your customers happy, or are they grumbling about the server downtime?	22:52
@tavisto	I haven't heard much from people although I've fielded 2-3 questions about outages	22:54
@tavisto	most people are understanding.. especially when I send them the URL of the full story	22:55
@tavisto	I do have a couple people who want the e-commerce to be back on plainblack.com so they can buy stuff	22:55
@tavisto	with it being on the temp box the SSL is obviously out of commission	22:56
perlDreamer	we like it when they buy stuff	22:56
@tavisto	um yeah	22:57
@apeiron	Buying stuff is good.	22:57
@tavisto	considering it's advertising cash	22:57
@tavisto	from cmsmatrix	22:57
@tavisto	free money for WebGUI Development	22:57
@tavisto	;)	22:57
slickware	I was told yesterday that the SSL was back up	22:58
slickware	because I was going to buy the agency hosting yesterday	22:58
perlDreamer	SVN is back up, so some part of the SSL must be back up	22:59
@tavisto	slickware did you buy the hosting?	23:00
slickware	oh hey, you must be Tavis	23:00
@tavisto	yep :)	23:00
perlDreamer	tavisto == Tavis	23:01
slickware	I didn't yet, I got an email from Jamie on tuesday saying it would be up on Wednesday	23:01
@tavisto	I am pretty sneaky with my name selection... but that name is actually from my Mii character on Wii	23:01
@tavisto	now everyone at PB calls me that	23:01
slickware	but by wednesday I had already started building my demo site on my crochety old server, so I will buy it this weekend once I have something to move	23:01
* perlDreamer still thinks it rhymes with Mephisto		23:01
@tavisto	Tay-Vee-Sto	23:02
slickware	mine actually rhymes with "angina"	23:02
@tavisto	Alright slickware, that sounds great	23:02
slickware	yes... you have no idea how great it sounds... i'm tired of keeping this dog running for like 2 domains!	23:03
@tavisto	do you have the book yet?	23:03
slickware	I ordered the book on monday or tuesday	23:03
@tavisto	I used to play around with my server and run a couple sites.. but it's just not worth the time or hassle	23:03
slickware	but, I dug through the wiki and actually figured most of what I needed out	23:03
@tavisto	oh cool, that designers book will make your life so much easier	23:03
slickware	along with bothering preaction and perlDreamer for the last few days	23:03
@tavisto	yeah but they like it	23:04
slickware	I imagine so... they're here every day it seems	23:05
perlDreamer	That's why they pay us the big bucks!	23:05
slickware	although, you should work on getting them to wake up earlier - I think they're on PST and i'm on EST, which means I don't get my questions resolved until almost noontime ;)	23:05
@tavisto	most of us chill in here although not usually in here	23:05
perlDreamer	Well, one of us at least	23:05
perlDreamer	And he's not even paid to hang out in here either	23:05
@tavisto	Doug is in Madison so he's cst with most of PB	23:05
perlDreamer	Just why do we do this?	23:05
slickware	i'm paid to hang out in here... just not by PB	23:06
@tavisto	perlDreamer is just a slacker and wakes up at 3pm everyday	23:06
* apeiron is a slacker who wakes up at 11 everyday		23:06
slickware	i'm a slacker... it's 4pm my time and i'm heading home	23:06
@tavisto	and ape too	23:06
slickware	driving range and dinner... enjoy your afternoons!	23:06
@tavisto	take care, ttyl	23:07
slickware	thanks all	23:07
* slickware bounces		23:07
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* perlDreamer loves testing		23:10
CIA-6	WebGUI: doug * r6552 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): fixed: Password recovery no longer allows disabled users to recover or log in	23:24
CIA-6	WebGUI: doug * r6553 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fix: Password recovery no longer allows Deactivated users to recover passwords or log in	23:24
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6554 /WebGUI/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Products.pm t/Shop/Products.t): tests for exporting, and some bug fixes in exportProducts	23:24
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--- Day changed Fri Jun 06 2008
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lisette	I like to know if a user already answering a trivia and can not return to respond? by this database	01:08
lisette	this by databse	01:08
lisette	or in the template	01:09
lisette	of survey	01:09
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CIA-6	WebGUI: patspam * r6555 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (18 files in 9 dirs): WebGUI_flux: added Modifier modules (used to be called PostProcess) and two Modifiers (DateTimeFormat and DateTimeCompareToNow) with tests	08:59
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+Radix-wrk	http://www.thosearentmuskets.com/sketches/internetparty2.html	10:23
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CIA-6	WebGUI: patspam * r6556 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (14 files in 5 dirs): WebGUI_flux: started adding Rule evaluation handling	12:35
BartJol	hee, SVN is up again?	12:36
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bopbop	haarg: where did webgui.org go? will it be down long?	15:47
BartJol	it is back	15:48
BartJol	it was down last week after the fire	15:48
bopbop	no, it's down now	15:48
bopbop	hust directs to pb.com	15:49
bopbop	just	15:49
BartJol	mmm, in europe I can see it	15:49
bopbop	really?	15:49
BartJol	yeah	15:49
bopbop	hmmm- I can't access	15:49
BartJol	strange	15:49
bopbop	yeah	15:50
bopbop	tried logging out and back in, tried in admin mode... nothing	15:52
BartJol	mmm it's not your connection, otherwise you couldn't be in this room	15:52
bopbop	right	15:52
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BartJol	logged out, logged in, works fine for me	15:53
BartJol	on webgui.org	15:53
BartJol	maybe Mr Tank knows	15:53
bopbop	very odd- yep, I'll ask him	15:53
bopbop	khenn: can you access webgui.org?	15:53
@khenn	yep	15:54
bopbop	grrrr	15:54
bopbop	any idea why I can't?	15:54
@khenn	internet down?	15:54
bopbop	no, or I wouldn't be here	15:54
bopbop	everything else works fine	15:54
@khenn	port 80 outgoing blocked?	15:55
bopbop	I can enter admin, sign in...	15:55
@khenn	proxy server?	15:55
bopbop	how do I check?	15:55
@khenn	would be on your firewall	15:55
BartJol	or proxy is tools->options	15:55
@khenn	actually	15:55
@khenn	webgui.org is redirecting me to plainblack.com	15:55
bopbop	yep	15:56
@khenn	so something is no right	15:56
bopbop	me too!	15:56
BartJol	network->settings	15:56
BartJol	but why doen'st that happen to me?	15:56
@khenn	http://www.plainblack.com/rfe	15:56
@khenn	can get there by going directly there	15:56
BartJol	otherwise it could be a rewrite rule that is not active	15:57
@khenn	looks like webgui.org is redirecting back to plainblack.com for some reason	15:57
@khenn	yeah	15:57
SDuensin	FRIDAY!	15:58
BartJol	yeah, almost vacation	15:58
BartJol	only 2 hours left	15:59
SDuensin	:-)	15:59
BartJol	I must admit that some url's are rewritten	15:59
BartJol	even in Europe	16:00
BartJol	but it works also with webgui.org	16:00
BartJol	but in the upper bar of my browser it says "Plain Black, makers of WebGUI"	16:03
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SquOnk	Hi everyone	17:20
SquOnk	extras/calendar is being used?	17:20
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steveo_aa	webgui.org not online?	17:46
BartJol	seems like it	17:47
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steveo_aa	plainblack.com too.	17:51
BartJol	isn't that the same webgui instance?	17:52
steveo_aa	Don't know, but a dev gateway is not reachable as well.	17:52
BartJol	we should bother Haarg with it	17:55
BartJol	probably he's already working on it	17:56
BartJol	Haarg?	17:57
@Haarg	erg	17:58
BartJol	working on the down webgui.org ?	17:58
@Haarg	yeah	17:58
BartJol	well, then we won't disturb you any further	17:59
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@Haarg	should be back up now	18:21
BartJol	it is, you're great!	18:23
@Haarg	nothing i did; still don't know what the problem was	18:24
BartJol	you just have brought some of JT's fear aura into your servers again	18:25
BartJol	I'm following JT's example and will be on holidays next week, have a fun hacking time	18:30
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steveo_aa	When is dusk returning?	18:34
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slickware	hooray, agency hosting	19:21
@Haarg	dusk? it has been up since monday. you having a problem with it?	19:36
slickware	no, no, I just purchased it	19:36
slickware	I was hooraying it	19:37
@tavisto	sweet	19:37
@tavisto	so it let you purchase it	19:37
@tavisto	let the flood gates open and sales continue	19:38
bopbop	Haarg: why is webgui.org redirecting to pb.com's homepage?	19:38
slickware	it's not, for me	19:40
bopbop	it has been for me all day	19:40
slickware	flush your DNS	19:40
bopbop	still is- other pb staff members have had the problem too	19:41
bopbop	but for some reason bartjol didn't	19:41
slickware	ah... you're PB staff? then my guess is your PB internal dns is messed up	19:41
slickware	at least the rest of the world is ok :)	19:41
bopbop	well thank goodness for that :)	19:42
slickware	http://207.44.136.150/	19:42
slickware	what happens if you hit it by IP	19:42
@Haarg	it was messed up earlier, but dns should be fixed now. i'll check again though.	19:42
bopbop	slickware: that works for me	19:43
slickware	then definitely it's your dns	19:43
slickware	either on your comp, or your router or whatnot	19:43
slickware	it will probably refresh itself soon	19:44
@Haarg	you can use http://www.plainblack.com/wg for now	19:44
bopbop	cool- thx	19:45
slickware	tavisto: who do I get in touch with now to go about setting up some domains?	19:45
@tavisto	you can post that right to the support board	19:46
slickware	assuming I don't have an account number or anything, posting under my username is sufficient?	19:47
slickware	and - PB forums? or WG forums?	19:48
bopbop	slickware: PB forums	19:53
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@tavisto	support board on plainblack.com	20:12
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perlDreamer	SquOnk: What do you mean by "used"? :)	20:18
SquOnk	perlDreamer: What parts of webgui are actively using them.	20:18
SquOnk	perlDreamer: In reverse: what would break if I remove it :-)	20:18
perlDreamer	is extras/calendar a URL in the system, or a path in the extras dir?	20:18
SquOnk	perlDreamer: A path in extras dir.	20:19
perlDreamer	You will break the ProjectManager, since it still uses the old JS calendar instead of the new YUI calendar.	20:21
perlDreamer	ack extras /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI \| grep calendar	20:21
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Oh	20:21
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Well, the thing is since those JS libraries are third party, they cannot be inside Debian's webgui package.	20:22
SquOnk	perlDreamer: I'll be forced to package them _first_ an once they're (if) accepted, proceed with webgui :-/	20:22
perlDreamer	SquOnk: Option 2 is to convert the ProjectManager to use the YUI date picking tools.	20:23
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Of course we can have "unofficial" Debian packages with all that stuff in...	20:23
SquOnk	perlDreamer: ...but I believe Option 2 would be better.	20:23
perlDreamer	but for that one, we'd better submit a RFE and rizen and others think about it	20:23
perlDreamer	A good start would be a dev list posting	20:24
SquOnk	perlDreamer: And the same goes with a bunch of JS libraries there. I've already written rizen about that and other things.	20:24
perlDreamer	Has he said anything about how to handle it?	20:24
perlDreamer	(in the general sense)?	20:24
SquOnk	perlDreamer: The bottom line is: any piece of JS code in there that's NOT copyright WebGUI/PlainBlack, must be packaged separately	20:25
perlDreamer	ah, okay	20:25
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Out-of-the-office response	20:25
SquOnk	perlDreamer: So, either a cleanup of unused libraries or "option 2" :-)	20:25
perlDreamer	SquOnk: I'd recommend a posting to the dev list. That's probably the easiest and most direct way.	20:27
perlDreamer	Are you iterating over these 1 by 1, or do you have them all assessed at this point?	20:27
CIA-6	WebGUI: meatbop * r6557 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/packages-7.5.11/ (8 files): A variety of template upgrades to calendar, donations, gallery, shelf, thingy and shopping cart	20:28
SquOnk	perlDreamer: I wrote to rizen describin all of the issues that were obvious to me.	20:30
SquOnk	perlDreamer: (I'm not that familiar with WebGUI's codebase yet)	20:30
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@apeiron	perlDreamer, ack \| grep? Maybe you want to rethink that. :)	20:37
perlDreamer	ack \| ack is to Bill the Cat	20:38
perlDreamer	or do you mean ack 'extras.+?calendar' ?	20:39
@apeiron	I mean piping ack's output to grep is wee bit silly.	20:39
perlDreamer	indeed. old habits die hard	20:40
@apeiron	SquOnk, rizen is on vacation until the ninth, so if you didn't get a response before the 28th or so, you won't get one until then at the very earliest.	20:40
@apeiron	Or you shouldn't count on getting one before then.	20:41
SquOnk	apeiron: Thanks. I wrote today.	20:41
@apeiron	SquOnk, I would suggest a devlist post as well.	20:41
perlDreamer	yeah, the ProjectManager is khenn's baby, and he's not often in IRC	20:42
perlDreamer	it may be like a 5-minute job to yank out the old calendar to replace it with the new	20:42
perlDreamer	or not :(	20:42
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Meatbop	perlDreamer - you around? I hear you worked on Product	20:43
perlDreamer	I'm here, Meatbop	20:43
perlDreamer	I hope that long pause isn't you loading a shotgun :)	20:44
Meatbop	heh, no	20:44
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perlDreamer	just who wrote this buggy product export code, anyway?!!	23:08
* preaction_ slinks away stealthily		23:10
perlDreamer	preaction should not feel bad for perlDreamer's buggy product code	23:10
perlDreamer	neither should preaction_	23:11
@preaction_	you sounded angry. anger has a way of getting redirected to the nearest available patsy	23:11
perlDreamer	preaction_ is not a patsy. Those slots are reserved for those who !grok('perl')	23:13
perlDreamer	so I'll blame Mephisto	23:13
perlDreamer	I mean Tavisto	23:13
@preaction_	or CIA-6	23:14
@preaction_	he doesn't know perl	23:14
@preaction_	CIA-6, botsnack?	23:15
@preaction_	he doesn't even like treats!	23:15
diakopter	bad bot	23:15
perlDreamer	CIA-6 _is_ perl, yet he does not know. This is tragic	23:15
@preaction_	perlbot botsnack	23:15
perlbot	I'm not your prank monkey	23:15
@preaction_	how rude	23:15
@apeiron	perlDreamer, The CIA bots are in Perl? oO	23:23
perlDreamer	Why would you write a bot in anything else? :)	23:23
perlDreamer	but I'm slightly biased	23:23
@apeiron	http://code.google.com/p/cia-vc/source/browse # unfortunately, they disagree	23:24
@apeiron	There's Python, Erlang (oO) and C, but no Perl that I can find.	23:25
perlDreamer	what is this oO thing you keep using, apeiron?	23:32
@apeiron	It's an emoticon that represents an arched eyebrow, at least when I use it.	23:32
perlDreamer	to me, it looks like part of the acronym for openOffice. But I'll keep the eyebrow thing in mind.	23:33
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SquOnk	Erlang is great for distributed systems.	23:53
perlDreamer	where does the WRE keep webgui site logs?	23:53
@preaction_	in /data/domains/*/logs	23:54
slickware	it could be someone suffering from a Hydrocele	23:54
slickware	(oO)	23:54
slickware	heh. today we learned a new word!	23:55
SquOnk	../t/AdSpace/Ad.................................ok 1/43Usage: UNIVERSAL::isa(reference, kind) at /usr/share/perl5/UNIVERSAL/isa.pm line 65.	23:59
SquOnk	../t/AdSpace/Ad.................................dubious	23:59
SquOnk	Test returned status 0 (wstat 11, 0xb)	23:59
SquOnk	DIED. FAILED tests 4-43	23:59
SquOnk	Failed 40/43 tests, 6.98% okay	23:59
SquOnk	...	23:59
--- Day changed Sat Jun 07 2008
perlDreamer	SquOnk: Are you fully up to date, or is this 7.5.10?	00:01
SquOnk	perlDreamer: 7.5.10	00:01
SquOnk	Getting back to the JS stuff we were talking about before.	00:01
perlDreamer	yeah, I'd expect those, and they're "real" in that the tests are out of date from the code.	00:01
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Ok, not to worry	00:03
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Wait, that's 7.4.39!	00:03
SquOnk	perlDreamer: But don't mind me.	00:04
SquOnk	I'm not a subscriber of the developers mailing-list. Do I need to subscribe in order to post?	00:04
@preaction_	no. you might need an account on webgui.org though	00:14
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SquOnk	All right, just posted to Webgui Dev.	00:32
SquOnk	How long does it take to show in the forum?	00:33
perlDreamer	it's rev 6558, and I tested it manually	00:33
perlDreamer	SquOnk: It's there now	00:34
SquOnk	Excellent. It's a little long, but that's just how I write :-)	00:34
SquOnk	It's pretty much what I wrote to JT this morning	00:35
perlDreamer	SquOnk: I added the blurb about the ProjectManager from this morning.	00:38
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Ok. As you've probably figured out, the best thing is to remove anything not being used :-)	00:38
perlDreamer	You could package wG without the ProjectManager. There's no easy upgrade path to get it, though.	00:39
perlDreamer	I'd rather see it changed to use YUI instead.	00:39
perlDreamer	but that's my opinion	00:39
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perlDreamer	coolmenus is used by some default Navigation templates	00:39
@preaction_	yeah, we want to get rid of it though	00:41
@preaction_	and those	00:41
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6558 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): provide a template var that will tell the user when there are no available variants for sale. Out of stock	00:41
@preaction_	the www/extras/slider should be replaced with the yui slider control probably	00:42
SquOnk	Well, hopefully the webgui community will decide what is best.	00:44
SquOnk	Remove what needs to be removed, replace what needs to be replaced and defer what needs to be deferred.	00:44
perlDreamer	And we know the status of the debian package, too.	00:44
SquOnk	As I mention in the post YUI an TinyMCE2 _are_ in Debian, so it will just be a couple of symlinks.	00:44
SquOnk	...and the YUI symlink is working fine.	00:44
perlDreamer	I found another place where the extras/calendar is used, and I updated the thread with it	00:45
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Debian will have 7.5.X. I have specially crafted 7.4.39 packages for Debian Etch.	00:45
SquOnk	perlDreamer: (Those are the packages my customers are using now)	00:45
perlDreamer	they meet the license restrictions?	00:46
SquOnk	perlDreamer: No :-)	00:46
SquOnk	perlDreamer: They are installed from my repositories.	00:46
perlDreamer	ah, okay	00:47
SquOnk	perlDreamer: By "specially crafted" I mean I had to replace some other Debian packages...	00:47
SquOnk	perlDreamer: ...since Etch has older versions of HTML::Template, Test::Deep...	00:47
SquOnk	perlDreamer: A nice thing that the Debian package has is the ability to upgrade itself.	00:49
SquOnk	perlDreamer: I just cd into my webgui source package and do 'uscan'...	00:49
SquOnk	perlDreamer: ...it checks whether or not there's a new release of webgui in plainblack.org...	00:49
SquOnk	perlDreamer: ...and downloads it, renaming it to the appropiate .tar.gz as required by Debian	00:50
SquOnk	perlDreamer: ...then I do uupgrade ../webgui*tar.gz	00:50
SquOnk	perlDreamer: It unpacks, applies my "debianizing patches" to it and sets a new changelog entry for the upgrade	00:50
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Then I just dpkg-buildpackage :-)	00:51
SquOnk	perlDreamer: So, hopefully some stuff will get deleted in 7.5.11 and when I upgrade it will all be ok...	00:52
perlDreamer	that's what it sounds like, but we're hard pressed to make 7.5.11 with the current requirements	00:53
SquOnk	perlDreamer: I know	00:53
SquOnk	perlDreamer: In fact, I'm trying myself to add the POD documentation to the Perl scripts :-)	00:54
SquOnk	Speaking of that, I'll refresh my SVN copy	00:55
SquOnk	I'm supposed to have commit privileges	00:57
SquOnk	6559 is the current version, right?	01:00
@preaction_	yes	01:03
SquOnk	All right, here come the PODs :-)	01:06
SquOnk	I've written a proper POD document for each sbin/*.pl	01:06
SquOnk	And it uses POD::Usage so you can:	01:06
SquOnk	perldoc blah.pl	01:06
SquOnk	(you get a full manpage)	01:06
SquOnk	blah.pl --help	01:06
SquOnk	(you get a full manpage)	01:06
SquOnk	blah.pl --wrong stuff --or incomplete	01:07
SquOnk	(you get a summary)	01:07
SquOnk	This will be my first commit to WebGUI :-)	01:07
SquOnk	There you go.	01:10
SquOnk	Anyone care to try it?	01:10
CIA-6	WebGUI: doug * r6559 /WebGUI/www/extras/yui-carousel: Removed yui-carousel since it is not being used	01:11
CIA-6	WebGUI: ernesto * r6560 /WebGUI/sbin/ (15 files): Added proper POD documentation to utility scripts using POD::Usage.	01:11
SquOnk	All right. That's it for today.	01:12
SquOnk	See you guys tomorrow (with hopefully more unused stuff deletions ;-)	01:13
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perlDreame1	stupid incompetent $dayJob! Can't even keep the bits flowing	01:14
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CIA-6	WebGUI: ernesto * r6561 /WebGUI/sbin/spectre.pl:	01:33
CIA-6	WebGUI: Removed a hardcoded pathname in the POD that makes sense only	01:33
CIA-6	WebGUI: for the Debian package. Sorry!	01:33
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CIA-6	WebGUI: meatbop * r6562 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/packages-7.5.11/default_product.wgpkg: Total reworking of the layout for Product template	01:55
perlDreame1	and it looks much better, too	01:56
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6563 /WebGUI/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Products.pm t/Shop/Products.t): add more export products tests, along with several bug fixes	02:20
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CIA-6	WebGUI: doug * r6564 /WebGUI/ (lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Gallery.pm docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt): fix: Gallery search now limits by classname correctly	02:48
CIA-6	WebGUI: doug * r6565 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): added a flag to distinguish between albums and files	02:48
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perlDreamer	I need some HTML formatting advice for the Product	06:33
perlDreamer	The user gets shown a list of variants in a dropdown	06:33
perlDreamer	each entry in the dropdown contains the short description followed by the price	06:34
perlDreamer	since the prices and descriptions are different widths, it looks sloppy	06:34
perlDreamer	using sprintf doesn't do much to help (%s makes spaces, not nbsp's)	06:34
diakopter	perlDreamer: you could put the short descriptions and prices on different lines, and mark the price lines as "headings" (or whatever it's called), so they're not selectable.	06:39
perlDreamer	different lines in the dropdown?	06:40
diakopter	yeah	06:40
perlDreamer	I'm using a Form control to build the dropdown, which means I'd need to modify that as well.	06:43
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perlDreamer	&nbsp's seem to work	06:45
perlDreamer	of course, trying to align text with a proportional font is sheer lunacy	06:51
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CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6566 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Sku/Product.pm: tidy up a bit and add a price to the variant dropdown	08:08
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wgGuest09	Hello	15:57
wgGuest09	nwb from holand	15:57
wgGuest09	i de like to setup ecommerce using paypal as payement method is this possible	15:59
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wgGuest09	hi does someone have a clue if there is a paypal plugin yet	16:07
wgGuest09	do u know may where i can look?	16:11
wgGuest09	obviously no one is here	16:13
wgGuest09	bye all	16:13
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perlDreamer	anyone remember which record Andy Dufresne played over the prison PA system?	00:11
@apeiron	Wikipedia says "Sull'aria Che soave zeffiretto"	00:12
perlDreamer	thanks, apeiron!	00:14
@apeiron	It's in the article on the movie.	00:15
perlDreamer	I need more testing collateral	00:16
perlDreamer	apeiron: Have you heard that Phoenix's screens are clogged?	00:18
@apeiron	perlDreamer, gack, no es bueno.	00:18
perlDreamer	they say the problem is that the soil's too clumpy	00:18
@apeiron	hrm. The question then becomes how it got that way.	00:19
perlDreamer	http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20080607/sc_space/martiansoilsampleclogsphoenixprobesoven;_ylt=Av2OMmeM1LB3dix5GaDWumGs0NUE	00:19
perlDreamer	I'm hoping it didn't have something to do with the landing rockets :/	00:19
@apeiron	le sigh	00:20
@apeiron	I'm by no stretch a geologist (or exogeologist (xenogeologist?) for that matter). Am quite curious about how the soil is clumpy.	00:20
perlDreamer	organic matter? :)	00:22
perlDreamer	oil leak from the landing struts?	00:22
@apeiron	Or some other kind of liquid from the lander.	00:23
perlDreamer	mmm, lander liquid	00:23
perlDreamer	sounds like the coffee from last year's WUC	00:23
@apeiron	heh, yeah.	00:24
@apeiron	Did you see the telecon yesterday?	00:25
@apeiron	Well, yesterday's telecon, as you can download it.	00:25
perlDreamer	No, I haven't yet.	00:26
perlDreamer	Where is it downloadable from?	00:26
@apeiron	Oh, no, wait, it can't have been yesterday, sorry.	00:26
@apeiron	Sorry, 't was Wednesday.	00:27
@apeiron	As for the video, I'm not sure where it is on their site. I managed to save most of it to disk and will let you download it directly from me if I can't fin dit.	00:28
perlDreamer	cool, thanks!	00:33
perlDreamer	I think I'm averaging about 1 bug per line of code on the Product importer/exporter.	00:33
perlDreamer	I'm thinking that's too high.	00:34
@apeiron	eep	00:34
@apeiron	More tests!	00:34
perlDreamer	indeed	00:34
@apeiron	For the video, do you have the ability to view QuickTime movies?	00:34
perlDreamer	No	00:38
perlDreamer	I've been procrastinating fixing the multimedia on my laptop 'til I upgrade to FC9	00:38
@apeiron	doh. In the meantime, you can listen to audio telecons. http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/multimedia/audiobriefing-20080606.html and the archive at http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/multimedia/media-audio_archive_1.html	00:40
perlDreamer	thanks	00:51
perlDreamer	argh!	00:51
perlDreamer	and there's another good one for the wG Programming Mistakes talk	00:51
perlDreamer	see if you can figure this one out: my %productCollateral = @productRow{ @collateralFields };	00:52
@apeiron	er. you're getting a list of values, not a hash. :)	00:54
@apeiron	(though of course it'll be interpreted as a hash and will continue silently)	00:55
@apeiron	(... unless it's uneven)	00:55
perlDreamer	yup, that's right	00:56
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6567 /WebGUI/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Products.pm t/Shop/Products.t): add tests for upgrading existing products, with bug fixes	01:37
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6568 /WebGUI/t/ (3 files in 2 dirs): add missing collateral from previous commit, add more tests for import	01:37
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wgGuest11	Hello how are you	14:36
wgGuest11	can u help i seem not ot find answer on faqs	14:38
wgGuest11	am nwb how can i make a table of clickable images	14:39
wgGuest11	sorry to disturb can someone help	14:43
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wgGuest18	hello	14:51
wgGuest18	nwb need help	14:54
wgGuest18	hello apeiron	15:08
wgGuest18	can u help	15:08
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wgGuest14	hi	17:25
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pilaf153	Is release 7.5.11 still on track to be out this week?	17:31
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wgGuest14	hi	18:44
wgGuest14	how table of images	18:44
wgGuest14	hi	19:03
wgGuest14	my webgui site crashed is there a known bug for 7-4-35	19:04
wgGuest14	happenned while was editing a page in middle of a copy and paste action	19:05
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wgGuest29	hi	19:53
wgGuest29	i have a question	19:53
wgGuest29	how do u buiild a page with a table of clickable images\	19:54
wgGuest29	someoe plz help	19:54
wgGuest29	is it possible?	19:56
wgGuest29	where do i look?	19:56
wgGuest29	?	19:57
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nuba	its impressive how many times, and for how long, he keeps getting here to ask something that looks like its not a webgui question	20:50
@apeiron	I would answer but I'm teh fail at markup.	20:50
nuba	if only he would stay around so that he could be properly hinted at the right direction	20:50
@apeiron	And I imagine many people here are the same way.	20:50
@apeiron	(i.e., perl coders, not designers)	20:51
nuba	by the gist of it, seems like he wants something fireworks-ish	20:52
nuba	last time i did that kind of stuff, fireworks was still macromedia's	20:52
nuba	most people i know moved away from sliced image menus	20:54
@apeiron	hm. Would an imagemap suffice?	20:54
nuba	usually brings bad usability, bad for searchbots, worst than smart css, bad mojo in general	20:54
nuba	and image menus are a PITA to mantain, if built with photoshop	20:55
nuba	add a new section to our website, and you need to work on the image again. Wheres the font? Wheres the psd file? what was the mouseover color again? and so on	20:56
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--- Day changed Mon Jun 09 2008
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wgGuest63	hi	00:59
wgGuest63	does someone knows how to show a table of clickable images	01:00
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wgGuest24	hi	01:05
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wgGuest24	howto make a table of images	01:05
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wgGuest26	hello	06:08
wgGuest26	good day to you	06:08
wgGuest26	plz can u help me find a solution to my pb	06:09
wgGuest26	is someone there???	06:09
wgGuest26	is this thing working?	06:10
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wgGuest26	hi	06:18
wgGuest26	someone	06:18
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wgGuest26	hi	06:22
wgGuest26	steveo	06:22
wgGuest26	am from holland am nwb	06:23
wgGuest26	hi	06:26
+Radix-wrk	hi wgGuest26	06:28
+Radix-wrk	What's your problem.. I can't guarantee I can help, but I'm a good listener ;)	06:29
+Radix-wrk	You'll generally find the best way to get help on here is to ask, then be really patient and wait.. a lot of people idle on here and won't see your question straight away. Also helps to ask when most of the US people are awake too ;)	06:31
wgGuest26	thanks radix	06:32
wgGuest26	my question is want to include a table with clickable images	06:33
wgGuest26	like icons	06:34
+Radix-wrk	Shouldn't be a big issue - what's the problem exactly?	06:35
+Radix-wrk	that kind of thing is done purely in html	06:35
+Radix-wrk	or html + a bit of css if you do it right	06:35
+Radix-wrk	It's probably not the kind of thing you could do easily with the inbuilt html editor - but it's possible.	06:36
wgGuest26	ok	06:36
wgGuest26	did u see something like that somewhere	06:37
wgGuest26	what is your advice	06:38
+Radix-wrk	You may find it easier to design something like that using a full html editor and then pasting the html code into an article or snippet.	06:39
+Radix-wrk	there's not going to be anything in webgui to help you do that kind of thing - that's purely a html problem.	06:39
wgGuest26	am new dont have a clue of webgui	06:40
+Radix-wrk	Sounds like all you need to do is add a table, then click in each cell in the table and add the image you want	06:40
+Radix-wrk	then add a link to each one of the images	06:40
wgGuest26	thought i can do that in webgui that s all	06:41
wgGuest26	am using firefox difficult to paste	06:42
wgGuest26	so i need first to change editor in settings somewhre	06:43
wgGuest26	than it is obvious	06:43
+Radix-wrk	you can paste in firefox, just don't use right click to paste	06:43
+Radix-wrk	use Ctrl+V	06:43
wgGuest26	i dunno	06:43
wgGuest26	i added a user.js to modify the behavior but works only once then stops	06:44
wgGuest26	i tried ctrlV	06:44
wgGuest26	mean i will try	06:44
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wgGuest26	working for text but not for images	06:51
wgGuest26	as am on ubuntu	06:52
wgGuest26	i guess i have to go to a good html editor	06:52
wgGuest26	thanks for your help radix	06:52
wgGuest26	bye all	06:54
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CIA-6	WebGUI: patspam * r6569 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (7 files in 5 dirs): WebGUI_flux: Flux now groks Combined Expressions	07:15
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CIA-6	WebGUI: patspam * r6570 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (11 files in 5 dirs): WebGUI_flux: Rules can now be dependent on other rules (with cache-optimisations and infinite loop checks)	12:16
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SDuensin	Morning!	15:53
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dionak	morning!	16:55
diakopter	morning?	16:55
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dionak	well, it is here..	16:59
dionak	evening for you?	16:59
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juan	i have a strange problem	17:42
juan	in one of my sites an asset disappear and i can not find it	17:43
juan	in assets i am looking for it in the path it was located but it is not there	17:44
juan	in trash isn't too	17:44
juan	so, i don't know what is my asset	17:45
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juan	how can i find it?	17:50
CIA-6	WebGUI: ernesto * r6571 /WebGUI/sbin/ (16 files):	18:00
CIA-6	WebGUI: Used B<> instead of C<> when highlighting options and parameters in	18:00
CIA-6	WebGUI: POD documentation. Not only do they look nicer emboldened, but it's	18:00
CIA-6	WebGUI: also what's suggested in perlpod.	18:00
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SquOnk	Hi everyone	18:26
CIA-6	WebGUI: ernesto * r6572 /WebGUI/sbin/_utility.skeleton: Added a POD template and pod2usage sample invocation to _utility.skeleton.	18:28
CIA-6	WebGUI: ernesto * r6573 /WebGUI/sbin/ (3 files): Added missing copyright notice to utility scripts.	18:28
CIA-6	WebGUI: ernesto * r6574 /WebGUI/sbin/_utility.skeleton: Added sample copyright notice to skeleton utility script.	18:28
CIA-6	WebGUI: ernesto * r6575 /WebGUI/sbin/ (8 files): (log message trimmed)	18:28
CIA-6	WebGUI: Make sure $webguiRoot is setup consistently in all utility scripts.	18:28
CIA-6	WebGUI: Some scripts had a hardcoded use lib "../lib" and "../.." on	18:28
CIA-6	WebGUI: Session/Config method calls. This was changed to a BEGIN prologue	18:28
CIA-6	WebGUI: where @INC gets $webguiRoot added, and the method calls use	18:28
CIA-6	WebGUI: $webguiRoot instead.	18:28
CIA-6	WebGUI: This eases the creation of patches for filesystem reorganization of	18:28
CIA-6	WebGUI: ernesto * r6576 /WebGUI/sbin/_utility.skeleton: Added $webguiRoot and BEGIN preamble to utility skeleton.	18:28
CIA-6	WebGUI: ernesto * r6577 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/ (12 files): (log message trimmed)	18:52
CIA-6	WebGUI: Make sure $webguiRoot is setup consistently in all upgrade scripts.	18:52
CIA-6	WebGUI: All the scripts had a hardcoded use lib "../../lib" and "../.."	18:52
CIA-6	WebGUI: on Session method calls. This was changed to a BEGIN prologue	18:52
CIA-6	WebGUI: where @INC gets $webguiRoot added, and the method calls use	18:52
CIA-6	WebGUI: $webguiRoot instead.	18:53
CIA-6	WebGUI: This eases the creation of patches for filesystem reorganization	18:53
CIA-6	WebGUI: ernesto * r6578 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/ (12 files):	18:53
CIA-6	WebGUI: Upgrade scripts have webguiRoot two directories behind.	18:53
CIA-6	WebGUI: Changed ".." for "../.." in the BEGIN preamble.	18:53
CIA-6	WebGUI: ernesto * r6579 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/_upgrade.skeleton: Added $webguiRoot and BEGIN preamble to upgrade skeleton.	18:53
lisett1	i have a macro that add a collaboration system, i do this with $asset->addChild, i need enable the rss, and i have rssCapableRssEnabled =>1, but this don't work, then i edit this by the browser, without making changes, I click over there and save if it works, I can miss in the macro?	18:56
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lisett1	?	19:19
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lisett1	i have a macro that add a collaboration system, i do this with $asset->addChild, i need enable the rss, and i have rssCapableRssEnabled =>1, but this don't work, then i edit this by the browser, without making changes, I click over there and save if it works, I can miss in the macro?	19:32
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dionak	when you addchild with your macro is rssCapableRssEnabled set to 1 in the db?	19:45
dionak	that would be the first thing i would check	19:45
lisett1	the addchild doesn't save inmediately in the db?	19:47
lisett1	the rss is not stored in the table collaboration	19:56
juan	i have a page layout and inside it i have many assets that can only view by the registered users	20:14
juan	i want to change it the permission to everyone	20:15
juan	can i change it recursively?	20:15
juan	or have to edit every asset?	20:15
topsub	is it possible to do a one to many with thingy? I see how to do one to one with thingy but not one to many.	20:22
bopbop	juan: you should be able to do it through edit branch, but it will affect any page layouts under that page as well	20:22
bopbop	so be careful- don't use it if you have subpages under that page layout	20:22
juan	ok	20:24
juan	thanks	20:27
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nuba	this is interesting, theres a bunch of languages like python, php, ruby, ml, etc for which MS is adding support in .NET	22:03
nuba	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:DotNET	22:03
nuba	perl is missing there, tho	22:03
xdanger	I think when they get perl6 out, someone will do a interpeter that'll run in .NET	22:13
perlDreamer	I think when they get parrot out, it will supplant .NET	22:13
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nuba	when they get parrout out.. yeah..	22:22
perlDreamer	well, I can hope, anyway :)	22:22
ckotil	iphone 3g!!	22:22
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CIA-6	WebGUI: meatbop * r6580 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/packages-7.5.11/shopping-cart-collateral-items_my-purchases-detail-default.wgpkg: Redid the layout for the My Purchases & Details display	22:22
@apeiron	You're kidding, they're not letting you buy them online? oO	22:23
juan	i have a strange error with one of my sites. the error is with spectre and is the next:	22:39
juan	ERROR - spectre.conf - POE::Kernel::_dispatch_event[948] - CRON: Response for job www.telecinco.com.co.conf-pbcron0000000000000004 had a communications error. <HTML>	22:39
juan	<HEAD><TITLE>An Error Occurred</TITLE></HEAD>	22:39
juan	<BODY>	22:39
juan	<H1>An Error Occurred</H1>	22:39
juan	500 Internal Server Error	22:39
juan	</BODY>	22:39
juan	</HTML>	22:39
@preaction	juan, do not paste here. use a pastebin	22:39
juan	ok	22:39
juan	excuseme	22:39
@preaction	http://webgui.pastebin.com	22:39
juan	yes, i know	22:39
@preaction	also, that error usually means that spectre couldn't communicate with webgui	22:40
juan	http://webgui.pastebin.com/m5a9b0b9b	22:40
juan	i executed perl spectre.pl --test	22:41
juan	and all is ok	22:41
@preaction	it could've been a temporary hiccup	22:41
juan	and the problem is with all the sites	22:42
juan	by the moment all seems be ok	22:42
perlDreamer	they all share one WebGUI code and 1 spectre	22:42
juan	but then many errors like this start to appear in the webgui.log	22:42
perlDreamer	hold that paste :)	22:42
perlDreamer	use a pastebin	22:43
juan	http://webgui.pastebin.com/m604dfad	22:43
perlDreamer	prection has a quick trigger finger	22:43
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juan	http://webgui.pastebin.com/m113111	22:45
juan	more erros	22:45
juan	more errors	22:45
juan	the errors appear by moments	22:46
juan	do you know, what is happening?	22:50
juan	preaction, do you know what is happening with these errors?	22:57
@preaction	i gave you my best guess already	22:57
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CIA-6	WebGUI: doug * r6581 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): added a thumbnail for the photo edit screen	23:27
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juan	perlDreamer, i was upgrading to the latest version of webgui and now i have a strange problem in one of my sites. i have mi site in spanish and with visitor many words with accents have strange symbols, but when i registered as admin users the words appear ok	23:53
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--- Day changed Tue Jun 10 2008
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perlDreamer	jua1, what's the URL for the site?	00:01
juan	http://www.viajesveracruz.com/home/conoce-mas-de-viajes-veracruz	00:04
perlDreamer	and it looks fine as admin?	00:05
perlDreamer	how about other users?	00:05
perlDreamer	I guess what I'm asking is if it's only Visitor	00:05
juan	yes	00:06
perlDreamer	Have you checked the profile for Visitor, to make sure his language is still Spanish?	00:06
juan	visitor has spanish as a default language	00:07
CIA-6	WebGUI: doug * r6581 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): added a thumbnail for the photo edit screen	00:07
perlDreamer	which version did you start at, and which version did you upgrade to?	00:07
juan	I was in 7.4.32 and now i am in 7.4.39	00:08
perlDreamer	did you read the gotchas.txt file in the docs directory to look for problems?	00:09
juan	with another user the words appear ok	00:09
perlDreamer	well, this is what I would do.	00:09
perlDreamer	This certainly looks like a bug.	00:09
perlDreamer	but first, read through the changelog and the gotchas files in the docs directory	00:10
perlDreamer	/data/WebGUI/docs	00:10
perlDreamer	if you don't see anything in there, then file it as a bug.	00:10
perlDreamer	be sure to put URLs to the affected site	00:10
juan	i don't see anything there	00:12
juan	but i have some sites in the same server and only this site has this problem	00:12
juan	the other sites are ok	00:12
perlDreamer	Do the other sites have similar content?	00:13
juan	yes	00:14
perlDreamer	I would still file this as a bug, but first I would do this	00:14
perlDreamer	Make a package out of the affected page	00:14
perlDreamer	and save it	00:14
perlDreamer	You can probably fix the problem by editing the asset, deleting the bad title and entering it in again.	00:15
perlDreamer	attach the package to the bug	00:15
juan	http://www.supernotariado.gov.co	00:15
perlDreamer	oh, and take a few screen shots as well	00:15
perlDreamer	that site looks okay to me	00:16
juan	yes	00:16
juan	if i edit the asset, the problem is fixed.	00:22
juan	thanks	00:23
perlDreamer	you're welcome	00:23
perlDreamer	:w	00:23
perlDreamer	juan, I don't know if it was just a hiccup, or a larger problem. Please do file that as a bug.	00:30
perlDreamer	You might be making life easier for a lot of other i18n WebGUI users	00:31
juan	ok	01:01
juan	perlDreamer, I want to view more specifics errors about spectre, can i do that?	01:04
perlDreamer	not without adding in the error messages yourself	01:04
perlDreamer	I saw your earlier posts about pbcron00000000000004	01:04
perlDreamer	there is some action in that workflow that is having problems	01:04
perlDreamer	I don't know which one	01:04
juan	because the problem continous and the this process is consuming a lot of memory in the server and high cpu	01:05
juan	but the problem is with differents workflows	01:08
juan	http://webgui.pastebin.com/m5519b885	01:08
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juan	if i check in my server. there are several process running of spectre	01:15
juan	i kill all of them and start the spectre again	01:15
juan	at this point the error that i showed you before disappear	01:16
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CIA-6	WebGUI: doug * r6582 /WebGUI/ (5 files in 4 dirs): added ability to configure number of files per page in the galleryalbum	01:38
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6583 /WebGUI/ (5 files in 4 dirs):	01:38
CIA-6	WebGUI: Convert WebGUI::Shop::Products over to be object oriented.	01:38
CIA-6	WebGUI: Update the tests and Content plugin for the Shop.	01:38
CIA-6	WebGUI: Add the Products screen to the Shop admin screen.	01:38
CIA-6	WebGUI: Add exception handling to www_import.	01:38
CIA-6	WebGUI: Add a status message to the manage products screen.	01:38
CIA-6	WebGUI: jt * r6584 /WebGUI/www/extras/tinymce2: not needed	01:38
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6585 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Shop/Products.pm:	01:38
CIA-6	WebGUI: Handle autocommit of products from the settings.	01:38
CIA-6	WebGUI: Tweak an error message. Showing the file isn't that useful.	01:38
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6586 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (Shop/Products.pm i18n/English/Shop.pm): Add a convenience link to the Asset Manager on the Import Product node.	01:38
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6587 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/ (4 files): rename the PayDriver plugin i18n files	01:38
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SquOnk	Hi everyone	02:06
perlDreamer	Hi, SquOnk	02:06
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Looks like everything I complained about it's just about to go :-)	02:07
perlDreamer	excellent!	02:07
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Did you see the patches I commited today (POD for the sbin scripts and some cleanup of webguiRoot finding)	02:08
perlDreamer	I saw the POD, but didn't see the webguiRoot finding stuff. Is that in the sbin scripts?	02:08
SquOnk	perlDreamer: Yeah... some of the scripts had hardcoded ".." and "../lib" paths here and ther.	02:10
perlDreamer	that's no good	02:10
SquOnk	perlDreamer: What I did was add a $webguiRoot variable, set that variable to whatever path is needed, place that in a BEGIN block so it gets unshifted into @INC.	02:10
SquOnk	perlDreamer: And removed the hardcoded references by $webguiRoot.	02:11
SquOnk	perlDreamer: That way, it's easier to patch the code to change $webguiRoot	02:11
SquOnk	perlDreamer: And I added the code both to the _utility.skeleton and _upgrade.skeleton :-)	02:11
perlDreamer	good	02:12
SquOnk	perlDreamer: So, now every sbin and upgrade script has a consistent usage of webguiRoot, and hopefully the future ones will too.	02:13
SquOnk	perlDreamer: There were a couple of missing copyright notices too.	02:13
SquOnk	Where should I file the bugs?	02:24
SquOnk	JT asked me to file a bug for each complaint...	02:24
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6588 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Shop/Admin.pm: fix the shop admin screen icon	02:33
@apeiron	SquOnk, http://www.webgui.org/bugs , it's the "file a bug" link on the left side.	02:36
@apeiron	SquOnk, You'll need to create an account and be logged in to file bugs.	02:36
SquOnk	apeiron: Already there, thanks :-)	02:36
perlDreamer	perlbot: bugs is http://www.webgui.org/bugs	02:36
perlbot	I already have an entry for bugs	02:36
perlDreamer	perlbot: bugs	02:36
perlbot	http://tinyurl.com/glbun	02:36
@apeiron	heh	02:36
@apeiron	perlbot, webgui bugs is http://www.webgui.org/bugs	02:36
perlbot	added webgui bugs to the database	02:36
@apeiron	perlDreamer, Best to namespace general things like that, as perlbot is in more channels than just #webgui. :)	02:37
@apeiron	That way you're not overwriting #perl's 'bugs' factoid and they're not overwriting ##c's null factoid, etc.	02:37
perlDreamer	perlbug webgui_bugs is http://www.webugi.org/bugs	02:37
perlDreamer	perlbot: webgui_bugs is http://www.webugi.org/bugs	02:38
perlbot	added webgui_bugs to the database	02:38
perlDreamer	perlbut: webgui_rfes is http://www.webgui.org/rfes	02:38
perlDreamer	perlbot: webgui_rfes is http://www.webgui.org/rfes	02:38
perlDreamer	great, now he's not talking to me anymore	02:38
@apeiron	perlbot, hi	02:39
perlbot	hi apeiron	02:39
@apeiron	perlbot, webgui_rfes is http://www.webgui.org/rfes	02:39
perlbot	added webgui_rfes to the database	02:39
@apeiron	hrm	02:39
perlDreamer	see, I'm a jilted developer	02:42
perlDreamer	perlbot: webgui_rfes	02:42
perlbot	http://www.webgui.org/rfes	02:42
@apeiron	It may have rate limited you.	02:48
@apeiron	That's my best guess.	02:48
* perlDreamer is a bot cracker		02:48
@apeiron	xdanger, You hear that?	02:49
CIA-6	WebGUI: jt * r6589 /WebGUI/docs/previousVersion.sql: switch sunset to kalamazoo	02:53
xdanger	I'm not a bot =) I just idle alot =)	03:01
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pilaf153	ok I found a webgui commerce primer to purchase for 7.4 but I am using 7.5 does the primer still work for this version	03:18
perlDreamer	it will until 7.5.11	03:18
perlDreamer	after that, no guarantees :)	03:19
pilaf153	is 7.5.11 going to be much easier to use	03:20
pilaf153	commerce wise	03:20
pilaf153	The macros have got me completly confused because I have been working on trying to implement them for a while but gave up for a week or two thinking 7.5.11 wont deal with them but now I am to the point where I can see if it does not get any more user friendly I will need to purchase something to help me	03:22
perlDreamer	it's a very different concept.	03:23
perlDreamer	products and now really assets	03:23
pilaf153	ah	03:24
perlDreamer	and you only need a macro to help you with the cart	03:24
pilaf153	that will help	03:24
perlDreamer	the commerce management is completely redone, and much simpler	03:24
perlDreamer	the user experience is nicer	03:24
pilaf153	cool	03:24
pilaf153	well I will wait then upgrade and see if I can figure it out	03:24
pilaf153	I have not got the cart up yet	03:24
pilaf153	because the macros have me going crazy	03:25
perlDreamer	have you set up payment and shipping plugins?	03:25
pilaf153	if I need to purchase something to help with that part do you have a recommendation	03:25
pilaf153	yeah I have set up the plugins	03:25
perlDreamer	what exactly is the problem that you're having?	03:25
pilaf153	I am not sure how to get a shopping cart link	03:26
pilaf153	for the user	03:26
perlDreamer	it should be provided by the macro, iirc. Can you show me a page?	03:26
pilaf153	I cant right now because the server is off and I am not located where the server is at the moment but I have tried adding the macro to the config file but then I am nto sure how to utilize the macro	03:27
perlDreamer	you call the ^Product() macro with a productId (from the Commerce Product system), or a SKU from any product in that system.	03:28
perlDreamer	so, you become admin, turn on admin, select Products from the Admin Bar	03:29
perlDreamer	add some products, noting the productId for each one	03:29
perlDreamer	then on a page, you drop 1 macro for each product	03:29
perlDreamer	isn't that covered in the commerce primer?	03:29
pilaf153	I havent bought the primer yet because I was unsure if it would be for 7.5	03:30
perlDreamer	ah	03:31
perlDreamer	well, that's the gist of it right there	03:31
perlDreamer	that will be 25 US$, please :)	03:31
pilaf153	lol	03:32
* perlDreamer goes to play with a very impatient 7-year old		03:32
pilaf153	so if I have the product macro in the config file that should all work	03:32
SquOnk	My impatient 5-year old is playing with his grandma	03:32
pilaf153	cool thanks	03:32
pilaf153	no 5 year old here	03:33
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CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6590 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Sku/Product.pm: fix a bug in edit variant	04:32
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CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6591 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs):	04:52
CIA-6	WebGUI: Fix getCollateral, which used to return direct copies instead of safe copies, and	04:52
CIA-6	WebGUI: add a test for that.	04:52
CIA-6	WebGUI: addToCart does not adjust inventory, that is handled by the cart.	04:52
CIA-6	WebGUI: Invert the sense of quantity in onAdjustQuantity.	04:52
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CIA-6	WebGUI: patspam * r6592 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (6 files in 4 dirs): WebGUI_flux: Refactored Rule.pm and uncovered a List::MoreUtils segfault	06:00
perlDreamer	hack on, patspam!	06:07
patspam	heh	06:08
patspam	strange that List::MoreUtils::any() was seg-faulting	06:09
patspam	just the XS version, problem goes away if you set LIST_MOREUTILS_PP env variable so that it uses pure perl	06:09
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patspam	i wonder if it's because I'm using wre-0.8.3-ubuntu-7.04-feisty on Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy	06:11
perlDreamer	patspam, have you benchmarked any() vs WebGUI::Utils::isIn?	06:14
patspam	isIn() doesn't meet my needs, I'm using any like: any {!$_->evaluate()} @list	06:17
perlDreamer	ah	06:17
perlDreamer	I was actually wondering if any() could replace the current guts of isIn	06:17
patspam	I'm after the short-circuit behaviour	06:18
perlDreamer	but that would only make sense if it was faster	06:18
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CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6593 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Sku/Product.pm: add POD, change spacing	06:47
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CIA-6	WebGUI: doug * r6594 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): the MORE menu exists now, but ... it doesn't show up with the right style, nor in the right place. Work continues.	09:05
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6595 /WebGUI/docs/ (upgrades/upgrade_7.5.10-7.5.11.pl gotcha.txt):	09:05
CIA-6	WebGUI: Move the deleteOldCommerceCode subroutine in the upgrade script to the end for safety.	09:05
CIA-6	WebGUI: Deleted all templates in Commerce related namespaces.	09:05
CIA-6	WebGUI: Deleted the commerceSettings table.	09:05
CIA-6	WebGUI: Added notes to the gotchas about the template deletions.	09:05
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6596 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.5.10-7.5.11.pl: add EventManagementSystem_product to the list of template namespaces that are deleted	09:05
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CIA-6	WebGUI: patspam * r6597 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (26 files in 9 dirs):	12:54
CIA-6	WebGUI: WebGUI_flux: finished refactoring modules	12:54
CIA-6	WebGUI: Modifiers now correctly applied to Operands	12:54
CIA-6	WebGUI: Added DateTime Operand	12:54
CIA-6	WebGUI: Timezone can now be specified as 'user' to dynamically user user's tz	12:54
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SDuensin	Greetings.	16:02
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juan	can i stablish the same date format for all the users that can be registered in the site?=	17:48
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perlDreamer	Is anyone else have problems reaching www.webgui.org? It's really slow.	19:55
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@preaction	no. it seems down completely to me	19:57
@preaction	wait, it's back... just yeah extremely slow	19:57
perlDreamer	I'll be patient	19:59
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6598 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Prune old EventManagementSystem stuff in www/extras	19:59
perlDreamer	MrHairgrease graduates in 9 days	19:59
perlDreamer	Is anyone interested in sending him a card and some kind of present?	20:00
@khenn	I'm guessing the dutch team is busy watching the Euro Cup like everyone else in Europe =p	20:00
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perlDreamer	besides, if he's not in the room, it will make it easier to arrange a gift, if people are amenable.	20:11
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6599 /WebGUI/sbin/preload.exclude.example:	20:26
CIA-6	WebGUI: Update preload.exclude.example to remove Commerce stuff and	20:26
CIA-6	WebGUI: include Shop.	20:26
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CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6600 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/packages-7.5.11/shopping-cart-collateral-items-1.wgpkg: remove an old template	20:54
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CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6601 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Add subscription assets to the user's config file and the example config file.	21:21
CIA-6	WebGUI: jt * r6602 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/packages-7.5.11/shopping-cart-collateral-items-1.wgpkg: templates i forgot to check in before	21:50
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6603 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (Help/Shop.pm i18n/English/Shop.pm): first batch of Shop template variables	21:50
CIA-6	WebGUI: graham * r6604 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Form/ (12 files): getting value for display shouldn't process form parameters	21:50
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6605 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/packages-7.5.11/shopping-cart-collateral-items-1.wgpkg: after having re-redisposed of the old email cash receipt template...	21:50
perlDreamer	hey, tavisto	21:51
perlDreamer	got a hot lead for you	21:51
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perlDreamer	http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9095238	21:51
@tavisto	wazzabi	21:51
perlDreamer	go sell them on WebGUI	21:52
perlDreamer	great PR	21:52
perlDreamer	good opportunity to help some kids	21:52
perlDreamer	we could even have a WebGUI merit badge	21:53
perlDreamer	do user level testing of WebGUI	21:53
perlDreamer	help translate	21:53
perlDreamer	develop	21:53
@tavisto	um	21:56
@tavisto	This BSA OSS page is a bunch of crap	21:56
@tavisto	I'm getting a headache trying to figure out how this works	21:56
perlDreamer	They need some help.	21:56
perlDreamer	You're da man!	21:56
perlDreamer	Swing in with some marketing mumbo jumbo and save the day, dude.	21:57
@tavisto	the article made sense and it sounded like they were trying to get OSS vendors to help them choose a solution	21:57
@tavisto	from their website: The Boy Scouts Open Source Software Website is an Open Source project. This means that the website is constantly being worked on. You will see construction zone signs on some pages throughout the website from time to time. When you see a construction zone sign this means that we are actively doing work in that area of the website. This does not mean that the area is unusable. However, it is an indication t	21:58
@tavisto	So because it is an Open Source project, it means the website is constantly being worked on? wtf	21:58
@preaction	i thought websites were constantly being worked on, period	21:59
@tavisto	seriously, what CIOs are helping the BSA with their website....	21:59
@preaction	i think the BSA got fed a line of crap from some fly-by-night teenager with acne and a basement laboratory	21:59
* preaction lives in a second-floor duplex apartment, much nicer		21:59
@tavisto	no because a teenager would know better... I guess some CIOs might be that far out of touch and tossing buzzwords at BSA like playing cornhole	21:59
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@preaction	perlbot .ve	22:42
perlbot	.ve is Venezuela	22:42
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CIA-6	WebGUI: jt * r6606 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 3 dirs): removed cool menus nav in favor of yui nav	22:56
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@Haarg	SquOnk, i was considering adjusting the way utility scripts determine the webgui root path	23:21
@Haarg	would this http://webgui.pastebin.com/m4bf7f388 present any problems for debian stuff?	23:21
SquOnk	Haarg: The scripts have to end up in /usr/bin or /usr/sbin, therefore using __FILE__ is not going to help.	23:23
SquOnk	Haarg: I'll still need to write a patch to set $webguiRoot :-)	23:23
@Haarg	ok, seems it wouldn't be much different either way then	23:24
CIA-6	WebGUI: jt * r6607 /tools/translationserver.cgi: exclude svn dirs from translation tarballs	23:25
CIA-6	WebGUI: jt * r6608 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Instance.pm: fixed a bug in the auto start realtime	23:25
SquOnk	Haarg: Exactly	23:25
SquOnk	Haarg: What's needed is a way to set $webguiRoot _somewhere_ that all modules would use.	23:26
SquOnk	Haarg: If we had a single WebGUI::Config module installed in Perl5 standard INC, then $webguiRoot could be defined in there. If webgui were packaged as a standard Perl distribution, this would be a matter of creating a Makefile.PL	23:27
SquOnk	Haarg: However, I'm not sure that's the best way to package WebGUI.	23:27
@Haarg	that's something i've wanted to look at for a while	23:27
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SquOnk	Haarg: Ideally, all of WebGUI's modules could be installed in Perl5 standard/vendor INC v�a Makefile.PL rules.	23:27
SquOnk	Haarg: And the sbin scripts would go into /usr/bin as well.	23:28
@Haarg	reducing our reliance on the current fixed file layout would definately be good	23:28
SquOnk	Haarg: But then again, WebGUI has a lot of non-perl stuff and Makefile.PL is not suited for that kind of thing	23:28
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--- Day changed Wed Jun 11 2008
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CIA-6	WebGUI: jt * r6609 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Replaced dtree javascript with YUI TreeView.	00:52
CIA-6	WebGUI: graham * r6610 /wrebuild/wre/lib/WRE/Spectre.pm: repair more workflow monitor breakage	00:52
perlDreamer	sphincter factor 9.5	00:52
perlDreamer	ha!	00:52
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@tavisto	so is CIA-6 connected to SVN or something?	00:58
perlDreamer	yes	00:58
@apeiron	tavisto, cia.vc	00:58
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@apeiron	tavisto, IOW, yes, it monitors SVN for changes and spits them out here.	00:58
@tavisto	wow, had no idea	00:59
@tavisto	I've seen it spew out all that stuff before but guess I never paid attention. thanks	00:59
perlDreamer	you want to see it spit out stuff, it means we're working	01:08
@apeiron	Or acting like it.	01:12
perlDreamer	working and useful are "somewhat" related.	01:13
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wgGuest52	someone knows about the advertisement module in webgui?	01:22
wgGuest52	How can i use this module	01:22
perlDreamer	You configure ad spaces. Each ad space can hold several advertisements. You use the AdSpace macro to bring the ad space onto a page.	01:23
wgGuest52	I have created a new space	01:24
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wgGuest52	new adspace	01:24
wgGuest52	And the system show me the next macro ^AdSpace(bannerlateral);	01:25
perlDreamer	yup, that's what you'd paste into an asset or layout to use it	01:26
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wgGuest52	but, where i put the img or swf with this macro?	01:27
perlDreamer	in the ad	01:28
perlDreamer	adspace is a place holder, container for the ad	01:28
perlDreamer	kind of like a page holds articles	01:28
wgGuest52	HAVE YOU ANY EXAMPLE TO SHOW ME IT�S FUNCTIONALITY?	01:32
perlDreamer	no	01:32
perlDreamer	I would just suggest trying it out.	01:32
perlDreamer	oh, and I think your CAPS LOCK may be stuck on	01:35
wgGuest52	ok	01:36
wgGuest52	PerlDreamer, it�s ok	01:52
wgGuest52	Tks	01:52
perlDreamer	excellent	01:52
wgGuest52	I have a question	01:52
perlDreamer	okay, please ask away.	01:53
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juan	can i configure the ads based in the ip address?	02:03
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juan	for example the first time that i see the ad, it can count the impression and if the users continues in the same page don't count the impression if he refresh the page	02:04
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6611 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Shop template variables	02:05
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6612 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (Help/PayDriver.pm i18n/English/PayDriver.pm): Email Receipt template is done for the PayDriver.	02:05
perlDreamer	I don't think you can configure the ads based on IP address, juan	02:07
wgGuest52	Exactly Juan}	02:07
wgGuest52	tks	02:07
juan	ok	02:07
juan	thanks	02:07
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perlDreamer	yes, that's correct. The only thing that influences whether a user sees an ad or not is the number of impressions bought (if any), and the priority of ads.	02:11
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perlDreamer	wgGuest52: you still interested in the 1-time user content?	02:21
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@apeiron	I would take that as a no.	02:24
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CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6613 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (5 files in 3 dirs):	04:26
CIA-6	WebGUI: Fix the pod for www_viewMy.	04:26
CIA-6	WebGUI: i18n and help for Shop.	04:26
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6614 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Help/ (PayDriver.pm Shop.pm): remove some duplicates	04:26
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CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6615 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): add hasAddedToCart and thankYouMessage template variables	09:16
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6616 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): template help for the Subscription SKU	09:16
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6617 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Session/Style.pm): bugfix: more debug output when style cannot instance your template	09:16
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6618 /WebGUI/docs/ (changelog/7.x.x.txt upgrades/upgrade_7.5.10-7.5.11.pl): make the admin console templates have unique titles	09:16
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6619 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Folder.pm): fix a typo in the folder templating code that made titles get confused with menuTitles	09:17
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SDuensin	Morning all.	16:04
ckotil	good morning	16:06
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Radix__	evenin'	16:07
* SDuensin has been too busy to chat here lately.		16:08
dionak	morning..	16:11
SDuensin	I'm also starting to live in fear of my WebGUI install again. I really need to get on the "new" WRE.	16:12
Radix__	know how you feel :)	16:13
Radix__	I think our work WRE is 0.7 and using 7.08 of webgui still	16:14
SDuensin	I've also got one site I built, the client didn't seem to care, so I archived it. Now they want it. Tried to upgrade it and it failed. Get to deal with that later.	16:15
ckotil	has sql form wobject been replace by thingy?	16:16
SDuensin	Thingy?	16:17
ckotil	yeah i thought thingy was the new data form w/ sql support	16:18
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ckotil	ah, i see what it is now.	16:28
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CIA-6	WebGUI: graham * r6620 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Form/ (HTMLArea.pm Textarea.pm): Textarea needs to be filtered when shown as HTML	17:25
CIA-6	WebGUI: graham * r6621 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/packages-7.5.11/root_import_gallery-templates.wgpkg: remove svn meta dirs from package	17:25
CIA-6	WebGUI: graham * r6622 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetBranch.pm): fixed: edit branch can't update URLs on most assets	17:25
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topsub	is there a way to have a log of deletion of file assets? I am having a problem of the files of the file asset being deleted or something is happening were its loosing the file, and i want to be able to log what is happening.	17:41
@Haarg	is the asset itself going away? or just the file in uploads?	17:45
lrobinson	does anybody know why all the line breaks would disappear when i save a Codearea form item to the database?	17:51
dionak	i think we've discovered a bug with bulk edits of file assets (related to topsub's message). however, we would also like to have a log of deletions that occur on a system (mostly importantly assets) in case a user is deleting assets. this way we could discover the issue more quickly when an asset suddenly goes missing.	17:53
topsub	haarg, its just the file that is going away not the asset	17:54
CIA-6	WebGUI: graham * r6623 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetBranch.pm): fixed: edit branch can't update URLs on most assets	17:54
CIA-6	WebGUI: graham * r6624 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (3 files in 3 dirs): prepare for 7.4.40 dev	17:54
@Haarg	there isn't a log kept of storage location deletes	17:55
dionak	what about asset deletes?	17:56
@Haarg	there's the assetHistory table	17:56
dionak	so there's no interface that i'm overlooking?	17:56
@Haarg	but it's hard to use that often because it only stores the id	17:56
dionak	(which is fine really)	17:56
@Haarg	there's no interface for that no	17:56
@Haarg	aside from the trash obviously	17:56
dionak	oh, good point. and how would one know the ID. perhaps look at lineage	17:56
@Haarg	once it's purged though, there isn't really any information left about it	17:57
@Haarg	so you would probably need to look at backups	17:57
dionak	yea...we had an asset disappear recently and it wasn't in trash. never figured out what happened to it.	17:57
@Haarg	when you say bulk edits what are you refering to?	17:57
dionak	ok, that's certainly an idea.	17:58
dionak	edit branch on a directory that contains file assets	17:58
dionak	it appears when anything changes on a file asset (say title for instance) the storage location changes	17:58
@Haarg	yes	17:58
@Haarg	whenever a new revision is created, it makes a new storage location and copies the file	17:59
@Haarg	there is an rfe on the list relating to that	17:59
dionak	in our example, there are a lot of file assets in this location. randomly, the new storage location is stored in the db but the physical file is not copied to the new location.	17:59
@Haarg	hmm	17:59
dionak	we think it may be a race condition	17:59
@Haarg	what version are you using?	17:59
dionak	7.5.10	17:59
dionak	i think, let me double check	18:00
dionak	we run multiple versions	18:00
dionak	this one is 7.4.37	18:00
@Haarg	i could name several places you can lose storage locations or have files appear to vanish, but it doesn't sound like you are hitting any of those	18:01
dionak	if the physical file hasn't changed, it doesn't make sense that the storage location would change. in addition, copying the file would make the storage grow unnecessarily large. this seems like a bug to me	18:07
@Haarg	there are a few reasons it works as it does	18:08
dionak	could you elaborate? i'm interested...	18:09
@Haarg	primarily, if revisions share storage locations it makes it trickier to track which storage locations to delete when purging revisions	18:09
@Haarg	that can be dealt with, but would make it possible through the api to link a storage location in such a way that could give you data loss	18:10
@Haarg	although that is possible now as well	18:10
@Haarg	it could be argued that it discourages using the uploads location directly, since that shouldn't be relied upon anyway	18:12
dionak	so this could be remedied? though it sounds like it would take some work. it's rather problematic when managing publications for a client.	18:13
@Haarg	i want to think there were other concerns - nothing is coming to mind though.	18:13
dionak	for instance, we just went in to change permissions on a branch of publications and now we have to go in and fix the random 404s.	18:13
@Haarg	you shouldn't need to refer to the uploads location explicitly though	18:14
@Haarg	it seems like you must be running into something odd though	18:15
@Haarg	since the old and new uploads should both still be there	18:15
dionak	i agree. we will submit a support ticket...	18:16
dionak	regarding the asset deletion (another topic), i think if that action were pluggable, we could create a log of who deleted what and when.	18:19
dionak	rfe, i'm thinking	18:19
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dionak	it would help wg agencies so we could track which user is causing havoc. doesn't happen often, but when it does, we need to restrict access or provide this feedback to the client.	18:20
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CIA-6	WebGUI: yung * r6625 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (Help/Asset_UserList.pm i18n/English/Asset_UserList.pm): Some UserList Help fixes	18:30
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@Haarg	it might be reasonable to add the url or file type or at least some extra information to the asset history	18:38
@Haarg	because as is a purge action tells you almost nothing without digging through backups	18:39
SDuensin	Namespaces anger me.	18:43
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slickware	Hey Tavis... you around?	18:47
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slickware	anyone from Sales on here at the moment?	18:55
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bopbop	slickware: tavisto isn't answering, someone else from PB's staff might be able to help you	18:59
bopbop	what's your question?	18:59
slickware	I've got a bunch, I was hoping to call but I didn't want to randomly guess at who'd be around in the phone tree :)	19:00
bopbop	you can call tavisto or Jamie Vrbsky	19:01
slickware	I have some questions about the agency hosting vs. other options, and also a custom programming quote request with addt' questions	19:01
bopbop	call jamie	19:01
bopbop	or email him	19:01
slickware	sounds good	19:01
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@tavisto	slickware, what's up	19:28
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perlDreamer	Haarg, do you have time to talk about the dbfixcharset bug?	19:41
@Haarg	not at the moment	19:41
perlDreamer	okay	19:41
@Haarg	this afternoon?	19:41
@Haarg	i know there are still some things to resolve with that	19:41
perlDreamer	sure, I should be on all day until 4:30 pm PDT	19:42
* perlDreamer considers writing a test that does `perl testEnvironment.pl` to fix the nightly smoke tests		19:45
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slickware	hey sorry went out for lunch	20:18
slickware	was going to give you a call Tavis, had some questions on a custom programming quote and how it would possibly relate to agency hosting	20:18
perlDreamer	slickware, I think with agency hosting you get your own server, so custom code should not be a problem.	20:31
perlDreamer	but tavisto would know for sure	20:31
@tavisto	sup	20:31
@tavisto	negative	20:31
perlDreamer	slickware wants to know if he can run custom software with agency hosting	20:31
@tavisto	Agency hosting runs on our production shared servers	20:31
perlDreamer	so he'd have to upgrade to a custom server, or have the feature added to the core?	20:32
@tavisto	because it's on the shared servers, they can only run standard WebGUI code	20:32
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perlDreamer	tavisto: You need to send me all your marketing materials so that I can represent PB better	20:32
@tavisto	if you got a mini VPS then you can run custom code.	20:33
slickware	different question	20:33
slickware	i meant - if i used PB for a custom programming quote	20:33
@tavisto	perlDreamer all of our marketing materials are currently on the site but I can point you to them	20:33
slickware	meaning i paid PB to design code for Webgui	20:33
perlDreamer	slickware, it wouldn't matter. Non-core code couldn't be run on shared servers	20:34
slickware	could it then be applied to sites I run through the Agency host?	20:34
@tavisto	depends, if it's funded work and added to core then your sites would eventually get it	20:34
slickware	right	20:34
@tavisto	all sites get the same updates so if it was funded and PB added it to the core (which must be approved obviously)	20:35
slickware	I was hoping to get something created that would be general enough to be a beneficial addition to the base system	20:35
@tavisto	exactly, and if that's the case and it goes in then it would eventually be applied in a future upgrade	20:35
slickware	a lot of my clients want a membership database that is NOT part of the general webgui user system	20:35
@tavisto	membership directory functionality?	20:35
slickware	yes	20:36
@tavisto	well,	20:36
@tavisto	this can be done now through the use of SQL reports	20:36
slickware	right... but I am awful	20:36
slickware	at sql reports	20:36
@tavisto	you can have PB create an SQL report in a few hours	20:36
@tavisto	it's possible that it make break in future releases but fixing them is typically fairly easy	20:36
@tavisto	and wouldnt require heaps o' cash	20:36
slickware	it's what, like $200/hr?	20:36
@tavisto	The other option is the thingy	20:36
@tavisto	$120/hr is dev rate	20:37
slickware	oh, even better	20:37
@tavisto	and there's a bit of project management built into our quotes as well	20:37
@tavisto	but yes it's pretty reasonable	20:37
@tavisto	the other thing	20:37
@tavisto	since its multiple clients that need this... you could have it developed and implemented on one site	20:37
@tavisto	and then copy the templates and the SQL reports over to the other sites	20:38
perlDreamer	tavisto: A package would be even easier than that	20:38
@tavisto	so you'd make some profit there as well	20:38
@tavisto	good point perlDreamer	20:38
slickware	right- i would PREFER paying once for the design, and being able to use it on multiple sites	20:39
topsub	are we surpose to be able to do reporting from "thingy"	20:40
slickware	I'm not caught up on what a package does exactly. The books I have do a poor job of explaining it	20:40
perlDreamer	a package is a way to transfer assets (and sometimes asset collateral) between WebGUI sites safely.	20:41
perlDreamer	so when you ask for a quote, make sure the deliverable is a package, and not just a configured asset on one site as an example.	20:43
slickware	gotcha	20:45
slickware	what's a "thingy"	20:45
perlDreamer	thingy is the next generation web based application builder	20:46
perlDreamer	it's a point and click way of building database backed applications	20:47
perlDreamer	JT's blog talks about it: http://www.webgui.org/tbb/next-thingy#PdiTZ7LMji_vBAqvnqIHFw	20:49
@tavisto	Thingy is another way you could create your membership directory	20:50
@tavisto	I was going to mention it but was interrupted by a call	20:50
slickware	that sounds excellent	20:50
@tavisto	anyway, the thingy is currently only in 7.5 so you'll need to wait until it goes on to the stable servers	20:50
@tavisto	until it goes stable.. and then goes on the stable servers.. hehe	20:51
slickware	what's the approx estimate on that?	20:51
slickware	(phone brb)	20:51
@tavisto	sometime before WUC but I'm not sure as of yet	20:51
ckotil	thingy is really confusing	20:52
@tavisto	I have to run off to the webgui webinar.. bbl	20:52
ckotil	i looked at it for 10 minutes this morning on beta.webgui.org	20:52
ckotil	i needed to create a web form w/ db backend. ended up making a macro	20:52
ckotil	sql form wanted insert , delete, create, among other privileges, i didnt feel comfortable giving	20:53
topsub	learning curve with thingy	20:54
topsub	i need to do reporting with it but doesn't seem able to	20:54
topsub	and trying to link up the db seems very hard to use a SQL Report	20:55
ckotil	i used sql report to give a webview of pending version tags. it works well	20:56
perlDreamer	topsub: I don't think the Thingy designers hang out in IRC. Try a forum posting to catch them.	20:57
topsub	ah. thanks perlDreamer	20:58
topsub	Do you know if that ability is there and i am just overlooking it?	20:58
slickware	good to know though topsub. thank you for the input	20:59
slickware	i think i agree, right now, i would probably rather pay PB than wait for a beta	21:00
topsub	ckotil, what idd you find hard with thingy?	21:02
topsub	<-- not looking forward to flying sunday!	21:04
perlDreamer	topsub: I haven't played with Thingy yet	21:06
perlDreamer	Although I would be surprised if there wasn't a display/view/report screen of some kind in there.	21:06
topsub	i found a edit / search / view	21:06
perlDreamer	and the view doesn't do what you want? or search?	21:06
topsub	no I need to get a list	21:08
topsub	search gets me my list	21:08
topsub	i need the search for something else	21:08
topsub	so if i change the template i loose 1 feature i need	21:08
topsub	i need to search by keyword and use this template	21:08
topsub	but to get a list like i need somewhere else i need another template	21:09
topsub	if that makes sence	21:09
perlDreamer	oh yeah	21:09
topsub	so it works	21:09
topsub	but i need to be able repeat it as many times as i want	21:09
perlDreamer	well, RFEs and patches are always welcome	21:10
topsub	i make a note.. I don't watn to do RFE yet cuz maybe they are planning on it just i don't have that version yet	21:10
perlDreamer	you can always check svn: https://svn.webgui.org	21:10
perlDreamer	if it isn't in there now, it's probably not coming	21:11
topsub	ah	21:11
topsub	Maybe they had something else in mind on doing reporting	21:11
topsub	or maybe it wasn't thought of before	21:12
perlDreamer	or it may not have ever been in the spec	21:12
topsub	true	21:12
perlDreamer	well, either that or search/report were rolled together	21:12
perlDreamer	hard to tell	21:12
topsub	i posted on the forum so hopefully one of the dev will speak up and i can see	21:12
topsub	it kinda looks like it. but then search can only be for one "feature" i guess to say. So you have to use it one way	21:12
@apeiron	Am I missing something, or is there no way to change an uploaded wG::Asset::File's filename attribute?	21:27
@apeiron	(through the Web UI)	21:27
@apeiron	And if there isn't, what do people think of an RFE for it?	21:29
@preaction	apeiron, very bad. the filename attribute is used to figure out which file in the storage location is the actual file	21:34
@apeiron	preaction, Yes, and changing the filename would require a new storage location.	21:34
@apeiron	preaction, e.g. say I upload a file with a typo in its name. I realize after the fact that it had a typo but I don't want to reupload it.	21:35
@preaction	so you want to rename the file itself, not just change the "filename" attribute? that would probably be okay	21:35
@apeiron	Not quite.	21:36
@apeiron	Say I upload a PDF. This PDF's filename on my local filesystem is 28290085.pdf (real world example).	21:36
@apeiron	When users of, say, Firefox, go to download this PDF, they'll be prompted to save a file named 28290085.pdf to their drive.	21:37
@apeiron	I would like to be able to, after uploading the file, change it to be something descriptive, like "software_testing_research.pdf".	21:37
@preaction	right, so rename the file itself, after you've uploaded it	21:37
@apeiron	That way, they'll get a descriptive file name by default without having to put forth the effort.	21:37
@apeiron	How do I do that from the Web UI? I'm not seeing a way to do so.	21:38
@preaction	you don't	21:38
@apeiron	aha.	21:38
@apeiron	That's what I would want to do.	21:38
@apeiron	Does that still fall under "very bad idea"?	21:39
@preaction	no	21:39
@apeiron	Okay, good.	21:40
bopbop	wait	21:43
bopbop	apeiron, can't you just give the uploaded file a new title in the properties tab?	21:43
@apeiron	bopbop, Yes, but that won't affect the filename that the browser wants to write to disk, yes?	21:43
bopbop	it should	21:43
@apeiron	It's not, at least not for a PDF I uploaded.	21:44
bopbop	yep you're right	21:45
bopbop	that should definitely be changed	21:45
@apeiron	http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/allow-users-to-change-a-wgassetfiles-filename-after-uploading#fSq22CH7Xh5gSuwTJJ0gQQ for anyone interested.	21:47
perlDreamer	if bopbop wrote it, we should do it	21:47
bopbop	everybody streak down your street	21:48
bopbop	I wrote it...	21:48
perlDreamer	already done it, got cited, bought the t-shirt	21:48
perlDreamer	although, contextually I was speaking about RFEs	21:49
perlDreamer	we should implement all of your RFEs, but ignore your bug reports	21:49
@apeiron	Uh huh, suuure.	21:49
bopbop	hey, I like my bugs	21:50
bopbop	what does this mean for karma rank: 5.00000005e-06	21:50
@apeiron	It means we should be using bigint, first, and second that it's a very small positive value.	21:50
bopbop	what's the e for?	21:50
@apeiron	hum, actually, not sure if bigint will format that properly.	21:50
@apeiron	Scientific notation.	21:50
bopbop	blah	21:51
ckotil	difficulty is 9999999999	21:53
ckotil	ah its new, so i bet JT has to lower the difficulty	21:54
ckotil	along the same lines.. http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/add-a-summary-meta-data-input-field-to-file-pile-asset#33ouzTyNpLq6KQbSAJIlLA	21:54
ckotil	ohh this one has gotten some karma lately	21:54
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wgGuest61	Greetings	21:55
perlDreamer	bopbop: e = 10 to the power of ....	21:57
@apeiron	In this context, anyway.	21:57
perlDreamer	so 1e-3 is 1 * 10^-3 power, or 0.001	21:57
@apeiron	Otherwise it's 2.7[...]	21:57
bopbop	ok	21:57
perlDreamer	howdy, wgGuest61	21:57
perlDreamer	You don't need permission to ask question, just throw them out	21:57
wgGuest61	Oh just checking things out I just downloaded webgui... looks like a great package	21:58
slickware	it sure is	21:58
wgGuest61	I'm an IT manager for a city and thought I'd check it out for our use.	21:59
dionak	what features are you looking for wgGuest61?	22:00
slickware	what sort of application ?	22:00
perlDreamer	do you guys remember who it was that just did that? Set up WebGUI for a city?	22:00
perlDreamer	It was someplace with BBQ...	22:00
dionak	mmmm...bbq.	22:00
wgGuest61	everyone likes to update our main web site .. now they just each ftp over each other..	22:00
slickware	mmm that sounds like a great idea	22:01
@tavisto	Charley Hankins	22:01
@tavisto	goeldorado	22:01
perlDreamer	tavisto, you're the man!	22:01
@tavisto	www.goeldorado.com	22:01
dionak	content management and permissions sounds like your primary need wgGuest61	22:01
@tavisto	we also have 2 cities in Mas	22:01
@tavisto	Mass	22:01
wgGuest61	I would like to get a more organized shared environ.. thought this might do it.	22:02
@tavisto	wGGuest61, I would be happy to register you for our weekly webinars. You can find out more information at http://www.plainblack.com/webinar	22:03
wgGuest61	I'll take a look...	22:03
dionak	what a great idea tavisto	22:04
@tavisto	yeah I just finished one 2 minutes ago	22:04
slickware	hooray for massachusetts - do you know which cities?	22:05
wgGuest61	I'm curious how you take an existing website and use it with WebGUI	22:05
perlDreamer	do you import with, or live alongside of?	22:05
wgGuest61	??	22:06
dionak	you can take an existing site and integrate WG into it	22:06
dionak	we've done this for clients by taking an existing site, creating a style template and page layouts and then populate the content	22:06
wgGuest61	we do all our own hosting/dns etc. Centos 5.1	22:06
dionak	once you get the hang of it, it doesn't take long	22:07
dionak	pretty much copy+paste and add variables in the right places	22:08
wgGuest61	Sounds like fun	22:08
dionak	it's not bad	22:08
wgGuest61	LOL.. thats not the same as fun :)	22:08
dionak	i thought you were being sarcastic ;)	22:09
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wgGuest61	If it works it would be a big step in the right direction	22:09
wgGuest61	No I was serious .. thats the kind of thing I think is fun..	22:10
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dionak	it works. the first place i started was learning the concepts, like style template and page layouts	22:10
dionak	oh, cool! then yea, you'll enjoy it	22:10
slickware	ya- the Getting Started wiki is a good place to start, obviously	22:10
perlDreamer	yeah, be sure to check out the wiki	22:10
slickware	otherwise, the books are also helpful, and the forums	22:10
wgGuest61	Hey I switched the entire city over to VoIP (Asterisk) I thought that was fun till I ended up being the phone guy.	22:11
perlDreamer	that's the nice thing about using WebGUI	22:11
perlDreamer	you can share the responsibility	22:11
slickware	absolutely... i went from being totally irresponsible, to paying PlainBlack to do it for me! :-D	22:12
dionak	lol	22:12
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cap10morgan	Anyone running the rhel5 wre on centos 5?	22:13
cap10morgan	I keep seeing this when trying to start the WRE: Had to create DBD::mysql::dr::imp_data_size unexpectedly at /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/i686-linux/DBI.pm line 1195	22:13
cap10morgan	and then this when it actually tries to connect to the mysql server: Undefined subroutine &DBD::mysql::db::_login called at /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/i686-linux/DBD/mysql.pm line 142	22:14
cap10morgan	seems like there's some version disagreement in the DBI somewhere, but I can't figure out why that would happen inside the WRE	22:16
@Haarg	i've run it with no problems	22:17
@apeiron	cap10morgan, Perhaps you're running into problems with your vendor's MySQL?	22:17
perlDreamer	apeiron, that message came from the WRE's mysql	22:19
perlDreamer	if it was vendor MySQL, the WRE wouldn't even start?	22:20
wgGuest61	nick	22:22
wgGuest61	hmmm	22:22
@tavisto	wgGuest61, do you have any immediate questions about WebGUI that I can help you with?	22:23
wgGuest61	I	22:23
wgGuest61	Yikes	22:23
wgGuest61	Trying to do too many things	22:23
wgGuest61	I'm still downloading but I'm sure I'll be back...	22:23
wgGuest61	Need to setup a VM and install	22:24
@tavisto	hehe alright np	22:24
-!- wgGuest61 is now known as Tgarius		22:25
slickware	so Tavis... my other question was going to be,	22:25
@tavisto	If you're looking for a quick guided introduction to WebGUI, sign up for one of our webinars and I'll be able to show you the ropes. Typically runs about 30mins to an hour depending on how many questions attendees have.	22:25
Tgarius	Forgot to change name...	22:25
slickware	if I start hosting 15, 20, 40 sites (using Agency hosting), is there a "better" option (dedicated server?) at that point?	22:26
@tavisto	well yes there is a break point	22:26
@tavisto	I don't know what it is off the top of my head but we have a couple people that do this	22:27
@tavisto	I had 25 hosting customers on agency hosting awhile back. And it was fine and I was making good money on hosting residuals	22:27
dionak	tavis, are you going to yapc?	22:28
perlDreamer	agency hosting is $15/month	22:28
slickware	so i'm assuming it's >25 sites, for now	22:29
slickware	and i can figure out the price break at a later date	22:29
slickware	I didn't see a hosting option that was (1 server, many sites) in the PB store	22:29
perlDreamer	super server is $600/month	22:29
perlDreamer	so 40 sites for a super server	22:29
slickware	the super server seems to imply that you only get one domain though	22:29
perlDreamer	well, aside from registering domains, what would stop you from logging in as root and running addSite yourself?	22:30
@tavisto	with our dedicated and vps servers, you can do whatever you want since you have root	22:31
@tavisto	however, if you need help from PB then I'm sure we can work something out in terms of managing/adding sites.	22:31
slickware	i don't have a problem installing sites/domains	22:32
perlDreamer	bopbop: I'm looking at your calendar list/add event bug. and I think it may have been fixed accidentally.	22:32
slickware	i just would want a solution that puts me NOT in charge of running/maintenance	22:32
perlDreamer	I'll double check on beta	22:32
slickware	and upgrading	22:32
bopbop	well that would be convenient... how?	22:33
@tavisto	plain black handles upgrades and such	22:33
@tavisto	and monitoring	22:33
slickware	ah	22:33
@tavisto	keep in mind all sites would be running same version of WebGUI though	22:33
slickware	that's fine	22:33
slickware	wouldn't they with the Agency, too?	22:33
@tavisto	yep	22:33
slickware	so that's not a bad thing	22:33
@tavisto	so if you have clients with custom needs they are better placed on mini vps	22:33
@tavisto	nope, it's a great thing for a reseller.. it's called STABLE and PEACEFUL	22:34
slickware	what would qualify as a custom need	22:34
@tavisto	try being a reseller during 6.x development....	22:34
perlDreamer	oy	22:34
slickware	remember... i tried being both a seller AND a developer during 5x!	22:34
@tavisto	I thought about running off to Brazil and leaving the world behind	22:34
perlDreamer	5x was a cake walk compared to 6x	22:34
@tavisto	5.x was fine	22:34
slickware	o	22:34
@tavisto	6.x I thought people were going to kill me	22:34
slickware	no wonder i stopped upgrading after 5x	22:34
@tavisto	yeah, be glad you did.	22:35
slickware	7 is growing on me	22:35
@tavisto	I hope so!	22:35
slickware	i'm still grumbling, but it's getting better	22:35
@tavisto	cuz if you don't like it there's nothing we can do.... 7.x is flippin sweet	22:35
nuba	why Brazil?	22:35
slickware	haha	22:35
@tavisto	because no one could bring me back :)	22:35
@tavisto	and the women are hot.	22:35
slickware	i like watching Joomla users go "WOW... drag and drop!"	22:35
@tavisto	nuba, do you have a better idea for a location? :)	22:36
slickware	brazil sounds amazing	22:36
nuba	i could bring you back to JT, if thats what youre talking about	22:36
nuba	all's negotiable..	22:36
slickware	and i've heard brazil girls are hot, also	22:36
@tavisto	oh no.. I meant run from my customers at the time of 6.x	22:36
nuba	ah ok	22:36
@tavisto	those were rough, but necessary days.	22:36
CIA-6	WebGUI: graham * r6626 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/AdminConsole.pm: change asset manager link in admin console to new operation	22:37
CIA-6	WebGUI: graham * r6627 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: Collaboration RSS link in header doesn't indicate title	22:37
CIA-6	WebGUI: graham * r6628 /WebGUI/ (sbin/userImport.pl docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt): fixed: userImport.pl overwrites settings when updating users	22:37
CIA-6	WebGUI: graham * r6629 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetClipboard.pm): fixed: Creating a shortcut creates a version tag even with autocommit turned on	22:37
CIA-6	WebGUI: graham * r6630 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Auth/WebGUI.pm): fixed: email password recovery submit button effected by UI level	22:37
CIA-6	WebGUI: graham * r6631 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: Syndicated content fills results with empty entries up to max headlines count	22:37
CIA-6	WebGUI: graham * r6632 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): DataForm rewritten	22:37
@tavisto	nuba, are you going to be at the WUC this year?	22:39
nuba	nope	22:39
@tavisto	That's too bad. I haven't seen you since the 1st or 2nd WUC	22:40
@tavisto	first one right?	22:40
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nuba	its been a while since I was last WUC-ed	22:40
@tavisto	heh	22:40
nuba	yeah, that was 2004	22:41
nuba	iirc	22:41
nuba	too much on my plate, cant fit a conference in the US there	22:41
perlDreamer	how's the mosquite situation down there, nuba? It's dropped off the US news radar so we haven't heard anything.	22:43
nuba	i tried to contribute to webgui with a map asset, but my schedule didnt seem to agree with me on that	22:44
nuba	had I suceeded, i'd certainly make the extra effort to attend to the wuc and deliver it hands on	22:44
nuba	who knows, maybe next WUC...	22:45
perlDreamer	Maybe instead of Vegas for the next WUC, we should do Brazil	22:45
slickware	really? the next one is planned for vegas?	22:46
@apeiron	I thought it was staying in Madison.	22:46
dionak	i hope so...	22:46
perlDreamer	for a while it was going to alternate between Vegas and other locations	22:46
perlDreamer	but then it did Madison twice	22:46
perlDreamer	I prefer Madison to Vegas myself	22:47
slickware	I recommend Boston	22:47
slickware	:-D	22:47
perlDreamer	PDX? ;)	22:47
* apeiron prefers anything but Filthydelphia. </3		22:48
perlDreamer	is apeiron planning on moving?	22:48
@apeiron	perlDreamer, Eventually.	22:49
nuba	WUC'n'Rio!	22:51
nuba	i should take some pics of gooey here	22:54
slickware	haha filthydelphia, awesome	22:54
nuba	Gooey in Copacabana, Gooey w/ Pretty Native Girls	22:54
nuba	Gooey of Ipanema	22:54
perlDreamer	gooey with highly deadly black tarantula	22:54
perlDreamer	who will win the 8-armed battle?	22:55
nuba	Gooey w/ girls will probably look like softcore porn, tho	22:55
slickware	so?	22:55
nuba	wonder if that'll be accepted in the contributions gallery ate pb.com	22:55
nuba	at*	22:55
@Haarg	perlDreamer, you wanted to discuss something with the db character set repair script?	22:56
nuba	is there any rule on how Gooey must be depicted in the pics?	22:57
nuba	like, no violence, no profane language signs, no whatever...	22:57
@tavisto	I'm not sure about future WUC but I'm pretty sure that we're doing Madison for 09 too	22:59
@tavisto	it's a great venue for it though and centrally located	22:59
@tavisto	who knows... maybe we'll mix it up and go for the north pole	22:59
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@tavisto	Santa is using WebGUI now.. PR report coming out next month on it. ;)	23:00
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perlDreamer	yes Haarg.	23:00
perlDreamer	From the bug, you know I've tracked down what happened to the column defaults	23:01
perlDreamer	but PB's site has the defaults in place	23:01
perlDreamer	I was wondering if you might know why that is	23:01
perlDreamer	also, if you had a suggestion for how to handle sites that are already broken due to this	23:01
@Haarg	i was planning on adding something to the upgrade script to explicitly set the defaults everywhere	23:02
@Haarg	it doesn't hurt anything, and will fix the issue for people going through the upgrade	23:03
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@Haarg	the reason it isn't an issue on pb.com is the script was never run there	23:04
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@Haarg	when i added that conversion to the upgrade script, we were already several versions past there	23:05
perlDreamer	I see, that's why it didn't show up.	23:05
perlDreamer	Would you prefer to work on it, or do you mind if I try it?	23:05
perlDreamer	There are lots of other bugs for me to work on :)	23:05
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@Haarg	i was just going to take all the defaults from create.sql and make the sql statements to add them. if you have a better thought you can work on it, but otherwise i'll take care of it.	23:07
perlDreamer	no, that's what I was thinking	23:09
perlDreamer	lots of perl and grep to make it easier	23:09
perlDreamer	I'll grab another bug	23:09
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slickware	'night everyone. i'm out for the day	23:10
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dionak	nite	23:32
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cap10morgan	Haarg: you've run the rhel5 wre on centos5?	00:28
@Haarg	yes	00:28
@Haarg	we compile it on centos5 actually	00:28
cap10morgan	i see :)	00:28
cap10morgan	hmm... very weird	00:28
perlDreamer	Haarg: Does the rewrite of the DataForm affect Content/Setup.pm? (which copy/pasted DataForm code into it)	00:28
cap10morgan	i have it running fine on rhel5 servers	00:28
cap10morgan	but this is the first time i've tried it on centos	00:29
cap10morgan	seems like it should be the same	00:29
cap10morgan	since they /are/ the same :)	00:29
@Haarg	hmm	00:29
@Haarg	that's a good question perlDreamer	00:29
@Haarg	i'll check on that in a minute	00:29
perlDreamer	if so, I'd vote for a small DataForm refactor that would allow some DataForm sub to be called, rather that copy/paste again .	00:30
cap10morgan	DataForm was rewritten? for 7.5?	00:30
@Haarg	yes	00:30
perlDreamer	cap10morgan: I love the RSS interface into SVN	00:30
cap10morgan	how mixin-able is DataForm?	00:30
@Haarg	well, mostly rewritten	00:30
perlDreamer	if more people read the svn logs we'd catch more bugs sooner	00:30
perlDreamer	WebGUI is officially big enough to not fit in any 1 person's head anymore	00:31
@Haarg	there are some things with the new dataform i'm not in love with	00:31
@Haarg	but i'm going to work on it more for 7.6	00:31
perlDreamer	Haarg: maybe we could rework it to use the JSON collateral for storing dataform setups. That way form setups would be versioned, and packagable and all.	00:32
perlDreamer	but not user data	00:33
@Haarg	that was the point of the rewrite	00:33
cap10morgan	oh joy	00:33
@Haarg	form setups are now stored as json	00:33
cap10morgan	that's awesome	00:33
cap10morgan	thanks to whoever worked on that! :)	00:33
@Haarg	user data is also stored as json	00:34
perlDreamer	that's what I did for the Product, and I probably could have saved you some code if I'd abstracted it out sooner.	00:34
perlDreamer	inside Asset::Sku::Product there's a whole implementation of the wobject collateral as JSON	00:34
@Haarg	i may take a look at that	00:38
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perlDreamer	apeiron: they got dirt!	01:31
@apeiron	perlDreamer, Ah, anything special about it?	01:32
perlDreamer	well, right now it's in the oven. They're pretty happy about just that :)	01:32
@apeiron	heh.	01:32
CIA-6	WebGUI: graham * r6633 /wrebuild/wre/ (lib/WRE/File.pm sbin/wreconsole.pl): fix handling of backup.exclude	01:39
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perlDreamer	preaction: Do you have a minute?	02:21
@preaction	sure	02:21
perlDreamer	in the Calendar, what is startEpoch?	02:21
@preaction	what view?	02:22
perlDreamer	list view	02:22
@preaction	it's the epoch date of the start of the current page	02:22
perlDreamer	I'm looking at a calendar bug where dates were off in events in the list view	02:23
perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/list-view-reporting-wrong-dates#zu06yO1inPvrqLB50cjm2w	02:23
@preaction	... damnit... it should be "eventStartDayOfMonth" for the events...	02:24
@preaction	so, if the template gets fixed, that bug can be closed	02:24
@preaction	startDayOfMonth returning 9 means that the page started there	02:25
perlDreamer	I've fixed the problem with the event date, it needed to use eventStartDateEpoch	02:25
perlDreamer	now I'm confused	02:26
perlDreamer	why would it use startDayOfMonth?	02:26
@preaction	he was trying to get the startDayOfMonth for the event	02:26
@preaction	but in the Calendar views, that means you need to prefix "event" to the variable	02:26
perlDreamer	so instead of the date macro, just use the right event vars? that's even easier :)	02:27
@preaction	the list view page starts at an exact time, so it uses all the start* and end*	02:27
@preaction	yes	02:27
perlDreamer	how 'bout this. Please email me a rough spec for the date display, and I'll fix it, update the template package and recommit it.	02:28
perlDreamer	and close the bug	02:28
perlDreamer	should it show a span of dates, just the start date, or whatever	02:28
perlDreamer	although, if it didn't generate all those template vars and used the date macro, it would be faster	02:28
perlDreamer	gotta scoot, I'll probably be back on later, and I'll check the IRC logs for other message.	02:29
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+crythia1	hi	04:53
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@tavisto	rizen, ugly kid joe? honestly?	07:14
@rizen	indeed	07:14
@rizen	they rock	07:14
@tavisto	hold on.. let me slit my wrists	07:14
@tavisto	;)	07:15
@rizen	my favorite songs are "Goddamn Devil" and "Neighbor"	07:15
@rizen	not as big of a fan of the stuff they had on the radio	07:15
@tavisto	nah they are okay if I want to rock out with my cock out	07:15
perlDreamer	tavisto: tmi	07:15
@tavisto	hah	07:15
@tavisto	whatever Colin, you've been waiting all day for me to say that	07:16
@rizen	how do you go wrong with: "There will be torture and there will be pain, Cause this is hell, baby, die in flames."	07:16
@tavisto	or "life is B, and then you die"	07:16
perlDreamer	tavisto: You are the marketing man, even if you can't sell it to the Boy Scouts	07:16
@rizen	tmi?	07:17
@tavisto	hey now... I've got one of our guys working on BSA now	07:17
@tavisto	to much information	07:17
@tavisto	too much information...	07:17
perlDreamer	has anyone tried the search in the asset manager yet?	07:18
@rizen	preaction said it's broken	07:18
@rizen	and he has to fix it	07:18
@tavisto	Jay is going to hit up BSA to find out what the crap that lame ass BSA OSS site is. The article says they consulted several CIO's of large companies and created that OSS strategy	07:18
@tavisto	but if you look at the mess of a site that is... I can't figure out what they're trying to do	07:19
@rizen	There's no gimmick that ain't been sold	07:19
@tavisto	Jay is going to jump in there as a CIO and OSS vendor and see if he can get in touch with someone to find out if they're looking for a solution or if they're just playing around with OSS for shits and giggles	07:19
@rizen	probably just playing so they can get free press	07:19
@tavisto	maybe, but they don't really need it	07:20
@rizen	actually they do	07:20
@rizen	good press i mean	07:20
@tavisto	and this makes them look like flippin idiots	07:20
@rizen	they've had lots of bad press lately	07:20
@tavisto	dude BSA has a good aura around them no matter how the media spins em	07:20
@rizen	but one trait of idiots is that they don't know they are idiots	07:20
@tavisto	yeah, that's true	07:20
@rizen	only to ultra conservative christian nutbags like you	07:21
@rizen	normal people don't have a good opinion of bsa	07:21
@rizen	=)	07:21
@tavisto	sure they dont	07:21
perlDreamer	assetManaget still doesn't work, but it doesn't crash your site now :)	07:21
@tavisto	Rizen, I'm gonna punch you straight in the ovaries	07:22
@tavisto	and then bash you in the skull with tiny pillows	07:22
@rizen	tavisto, i've got small pillows protecting me	07:22
@rizen	today i was doing a search online for tiny pillows so i could order some for you	07:23
@rizen	and i ran across the best site	07:23
@tavisto	hehe	07:23
@rizen	http://www.pixiespillows.com/	07:23
@tavisto	actually I know you do have tiny pillows protecting you.. cuz you always sleep with them	07:23
@tavisto	um... well gee thanks.. I now have a dirty URL and cache in my browser	07:24
@tavisto	that'll be great when I'm giving the next webinar	07:24
@tavisto	heh bastard	07:24
@rizen	hehe	07:24
@rizen	you don't clear your history before you give a webinar?	07:25
@tavisto	hey dude... there's a serious trademark infringement on that site btw..	07:25
@tavisto	"I really love pillows a lot!"	07:25
@tavisto	dude that's SOOOOO your line	07:25
@tavisto	I'd sue.	07:25
@rizen	i always try to do that so people don't know what bank i use, what stock trader i use, what porn sites i visit, and that i've looked up their fbi record	07:25
@tavisto	um dude I always do that	07:26
@tavisto	I was just kidding lol	07:26
+Radix-wrk	http://cache.imagefap.com/images/full/39/508/508633997.jpg	07:27
@tavisto	haha	07:27
@tavisto	wait a sec I think I've dated a couple of them	07:27
@rizen	hahah	07:28
@rizen	that's a great one	07:28
@tavisto	rizen, did you see our l33t placement at oscon... that's going to be sweet	07:30
@tavisto	we can prey on the people standing in line eating	07:30
@tavisto	er waiting for food	07:30
@rizen	no i didn't, but i'll trust that you got us a good spot	07:30
@tavisto	I forwarded you a map and where we were	07:30
@rizen	cuz if you didn't, then you're fired	07:30
@rizen	and i'll hire colin in your place	07:31
@rizen	since he lives in portland, i'm sure he could get us a great spot	07:31
@tavisto	hmm.... tavis wonders if down the hall and behind the elevator was a good spot	07:31
@tavisto	dude we are right next to the janitorial closet so I think it was a good choice	07:31
perlDreamer	just stay away from the joomla dudes	07:32
@rizen	why is that pd?	07:36
perlDreamer	they get tons of press all over the place	07:37
perlDreamer	They were on slashdot today	07:37
@rizen	i saw a post on slashdot today that said Joomla is a CMS (Crap Management System)	07:37
perlDreamer	Oreillynet last week about XML syndication and content analysis	07:37
@tavisto	I think I'm going to bring a bat and just start bashing Joomla people at the conference	07:37
@rizen	i still can't figure out why they get so much press	07:38
@rizen	i've used joomla, and i don't see anything special about it	07:38
@tavisto	because it's easy to install and review	07:38
+Radix-wrk	I think that's the nail on the head there.. 'easy to install'	07:38
@rizen	it doesn't seem any easier than webgui to use	07:38
@rizen	sure it's easier to install	07:38
@rizen	at least on shared hosting environments	07:39
@rizen	on a dedicated server it's no easier to install than WebGUI + WRE	07:39
@rizen	but there are dozens of WebGUI hosters out there	07:39
@tavisto	this was a quote from the corporate telecomm company I've been working a contract with	07:39
@tavisto	For example, prior to looking at you we looked at Joomla (which was VERY easy to set up) but there system does not have the flexibility that yours does relative to security permissions and they also don't do versioning.	07:40
@tavisto	then Todd came back with the "we find webgui very hard to install on our windows server"	07:40
@rizen	we need to get rid of the windows version	07:40
@tavisto	On your social epidemic email, I've been working on a response and it has some ideas involving installation	07:40
@tavisto	we do?	07:40
@rizen	yes	07:40
@tavisto	gah	07:41
@rizen	we either need to make webgui work as well on windows as it does on mac/linux/unix	07:41
@rizen	or we need to get rid of it	07:41
@rizen	and since i'm not willing to put that much time into it	07:41
@rizen	it needs to go away	07:41
@tavisto	I've been working to sell it to them for the last 2 weeks and we're getting close along with support contract.. son of ah	07:41
@rizen	in favor of a VMWare version	07:41
@rizen	sell it to them on windows?	07:41
@tavisto	yeah they have windows server 2003 environment	07:42
@rizen	how many people are going to access it?	07:42
@tavisto	they have 25 employees	07:42
@tavisto	and then I'm not sure yet about customers but it's nothing major	07:42
@rizen	it will work for something that small	07:42
@rizen	but it doesn't scale at all on windows	07:42
@tavisto	they want website/intranet/extranet and want to put a bunch of docs up along with sales stuff for public	07:43
@rizen	if you want to really push it on windows, then we need to hire someone to help Haarg so that he can spend some serious time on windows support	07:44
@rizen	life is too short for me to work on it	07:44
@rizen	i HATE windows	07:44
@tavisto	I was surprised when I was talking to Graham earlier and he told me that the latest WRE wasn't even tested on windows 2003 server.	07:44
@tavisto	I was like... Uh... that's what 85% of the businesses are going to be running right now	07:45
@tavisto	Well if you guys want to say the hell with windows then that's fine but even Fujitsu was interested in using it on Windows	07:45
@rizen	not sure where you're getting those numbers, windows doesn't even control that much of the server market	07:46
@tavisto	I'm not sure how much that hurts us	07:46
@rizen	they have about 55%	07:46
@rizen	and that's all flavors of windows	07:46
@tavisto	for small and medium businesses? No way	07:46
@rizen	Fujitsu said they also can run linux	07:46
@tavisto	They aren't running linux or mac servers	07:46
@rizen	you didn't say small businesses, you said business	07:46
@tavisto	oh okay	07:47
@rizen	and yes they do run linux....they said so on that call i was on with them	07:47
@tavisto	yeah but didn't they say that project was on windows and that they would throw more hardware at the problem?	07:47
@tavisto	speaking of them, they're waiting on the UK gov for the bid selection	07:48
@rizen	they said they're going to build out new servers for the project regardless	07:48
@rizen	they didn't care whether it was windows or linux	07:48
@rizen	they were initially planning windows	07:48
@rizen	and i told them it wouldn't scale, and they said "that's ok we'll use linux"	07:48
@tavisto	well good, that works for me	07:49
-!- snapcount [n=snapcoun@andc-fw1.exploreos.com] has joined #webgui		07:49
@rizen	everybody runnnnnnnnn!!! snapcount is here	07:50
* rizen runs as fast as he can screaming like a girl		07:50
perlDreamer	holy smoke, the event calendar has 200 variables, for 1 event!	07:50
@tavisto	Jesus saves and everyone else takes 5d10 Damage	07:50
@rizen	jesus disappeared in a puff of logic	07:51
@rizen	i read that somewhere	07:51
@rizen	=)	07:51
perlDreamer	it wasn't the bible	07:51
@rizen	yes it was, it was the hitch hikers guide to the galaxy	07:52
@rizen	which is the bible to the universe	07:52
@rizen	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:God_%28Non-Existance_of%29.jpg	07:53
@rizen	"The argument goes something like this: `I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, `for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'	07:55
@rizen	"`But,' says Man, `The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'	07:55
@rizen	"`Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly vanished in a puff of logic.	07:55
+Radix-wrk	"Oh that was easy says man and proves that black is white and gets killed on the next zebra crossing"	07:56
@rizen	love that book	07:57
@rizen	the movie was ok, but the book was way better	07:57
+Radix-wrk	"Some leading theologicans think this is a load of dingo's kidneys, but that didn't stop Oolahan Cahoopid from making millions in his book bestseller "Well that about wraps it up for God"."	07:57
@rizen	but the BBC radio series was the best ever	07:57
+Radix-wrk	"Meanwhile, the poor babelfish, by removing all barriers of communication - had caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation"	07:58
@tavisto	No I think Monsterquest is the best ever	07:58
@tavisto	"you can't tell me what I saw."	07:58
@tavisto	"Sir, this cat hair... it came from a house cat."	07:58
+Radix-wrk	I have a copy of the original radio scripts in play format at home that I got for my 10th birthday :)	07:58
+Radix-wrk	the original bbc series was the best definitely	07:59
perlDreamer	-5 bugs	08:01
@tavisto	nice buddy	08:01
@rizen	i wish i could find that line, one of my favorites from the books	08:05
@rizen	a targ beast is charging at ford	08:05
@rizen	replace targ with actual name of monster	08:05
@rizen	and he reaches into his pocket for some coins, and throws them onto the ground in front of him	08:06
@rizen	and at the last second the beast stops	08:06
@rizen	sorry, i think zaphod threw the coins	08:06
perlDreamer	rizen: elnino wants wider metadata fields. Any objections?	08:06
perlDreamer	oh, wait, coins!	08:06
@rizen	and ford says, "what happened"	08:06
@rizen	and zaphod says, everybody knows that targ beasts will stop on a dime	08:06
@rizen	elnino wanted that for an invalid reason	08:08
@rizen	but that doesn't mean there isn't a valid reason, so i guess no objections	08:08
perlDreamer	I was thinking 2X. that's a lot of text	08:09
@rizen	2x?	08:11
@rizen	2x what it is now?	08:11
@rizen	i'd just make it a varchar(255)	08:11
@rizen	if you make it a text blob type like mediumtext then you can't sort on it, or perform certain match types, so that's no og	08:12
@rizen	good	08:12
perlDreamer	right now it's 100 for fieldName, and 100 for values	08:12
@rizen	field name is more than enough	08:12
perlDreamer	255 it is	08:12
@rizen	change value to 255	08:12
perlDreamer	you got it boss	08:13
@rizen	that's just sad	08:20
@rizen	5 years into the iraq war only 1 in 7 americans can find iraq on a world map	08:21
@rizen	and only 2 of 5 americans know we have 3 branches of government and can name them	08:22
@rizen	methinks we need to have a test before you can vote	08:24
perlDreamer	they need to play Campaign Secrets	08:24
@rizen	you get 1 point for just being able to write your name	08:24
@rizen	i bet 50% of voters would be cut out right there	08:24
perlDreamer	X	08:25
perlDreamer	does that count?	08:25
@rizen	nope	08:25
@rizen	given that elementary through high school is free in this country, and has been for 100 years, you should be required to be literate to vote	08:25
perlDreamer	this is messed up	08:26
perlDreamer	asset meta data defaultvalue can hold multiple rows, it's a text area, but there's only 100 characters alotted for all of them.	08:27
perlDreamer	should that be a text field instead of a varchar?	08:27
@rizen	it pisses me off that people get distracted by whether barrack can bowl, hillary can tip back brandy snifters, mcain is too old, and bush dancing	08:27
@rizen	none of those things are relevant	08:28
perlDreamer	relevancy != ratings	08:28
@rizen	i just said it shouldn't be a text field	08:28
@rizen	scroll up	08:29
perlDreamer	I'm sorry, I wasn't clear	08:29
perlDreamer	values in metaData_values are 100 chars	08:29
perlDreamer	default values (options to pick from) are limited to 100 chars in metaData_properties	08:29
perlDreamer	seems like it should be bigger/different	08:30
perlDreamer	it = default values	08:30
@rizen	do you mean "possibleValues" or "defaultValue"?	08:30
perlDreamer	defaultValue. possibleValues is already a text field	08:31
@rizen	defaultValue should be exactly the same as the field in metaData_values	08:31
@rizen	if it weren't, then you could store one thing in metaData_properties that wasn't storable in metaData_values	08:31
@rizen	that doesn't make sense	08:31
perlDreamer	that's what I originally thought, too, but the hoverhelp says that defaultValue can contain multiple values, such as in the case of a checkbox list	08:32
@rizen	default value is a value	08:32
perlDreamer	just 1 value?	08:32
@rizen	no	08:32
@rizen	but value isn't a value either	08:32
@rizen	it's multiple values if it wants to be	08:32
perlDreamer	hm	08:32
@rizen	that's how checkboxes and other multi-value fields work	08:32
@rizen	all multivalue fields hold the list in the same field delimited by carriage returns	08:33
perlDreamer	okay, so it's limited to a total of 255 characters, regardless of how many values you stick in it	08:33
@rizen	yes	08:33
perlDreamer	I'll update the docs correspondingly	08:33
@rizen	and if you decide that you want 200 options that are 10 characters each, then you are an idiot, and it won't work. =)	08:33
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6634 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Content/AssetManager.pm: prevent assetManager from crashing. Still does not work right.	08:34
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6635 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm: manageAssets => assetManager	08:34
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6636 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (5 files in 3 dirs): op=manageAssets => op=assetManager	08:34
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6637 /WebGUI/docs/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fix a template variable problem in the calendar list view	08:34
@tavisto	Well I expect the next president of the US to be a good bowler	08:38
@rizen	apparently you don't care whether the current president can dance though?	08:38
@tavisto	nah	08:38
@rizen	honestly...that shit is so stupid	08:38
@tavisto	media = stupid	08:38
@rizen	we're paying $4/gallon for gas, and people are making fun of whether bush can dance	08:39
@tavisto	and you wonder why I support AMLA and their cause to teach kids to think for themselves and find good answers using technology tools. Don't listen to the media and assume it's truth	08:39
perlDreamer	last bug for tonight	08:39
perlDreamer	more fun tomorrow, chief	08:39
perlDreamer	and chief's pillow boy :)	08:39
@rizen	later	08:39
-!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-245-101-253.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."]		08:40
@tavisto	did he call me pillow boy	08:40
@rizen	i don't wonder why yu support AMLA	08:40
@tavisto	that son of ah	08:40
@tavisto	well tomorrow's the big upgrade day... yay	08:40
@rizen	and the best part is that he called you a pillow boy and then left so you couldn't defend yourself	08:40
@rizen	=)	08:40
@rizen	not if i can't get the damn upgrade to work	08:41
@tavisto	I'm going to punch him in the ovaries at OSCON	08:41
@rizen	been working on it all night against plainblack.com's database	08:41
@tavisto	what you do mean get the upgrade to work	08:41
@tavisto	oooh well no rush then... take your time and give it a few more days... :)	08:41
@rizen	i'm testing it against live data and the ugprade fails	08:41
@rizen	oh no	08:41
@rizen	i will fix it by tomorrow	08:41
@tavisto	I'd rather not open up this can of worms tomorrow anyway	08:41
@rizen	it's just a matter of what time	08:41
@tavisto	son of ah.. i hate you	08:42
@tavisto	how dare you try to fix something and deliver additional functionality for free.. you're a bitch	08:42
@rizen	nobody is interested in webgui shop, thingy, or gallery anyway. i should just give up	08:42
@rizen	=)	08:43
@tavisto	correct	08:43
@tavisto	just delete svn and get on with your life as a citgo gas station attendent	08:43
@tavisto	attendant even	08:43
@rizen	that's far too high for me to aspire to	08:43
@rizen	i'll go back to my previous profession of "goat ball warmer"	08:44
@tavisto	really? I figured it was a great in-the-door position so that some day you could be the manager	08:44
@tavisto	oh.. that explains the stretch marks on your cheeks	08:44
@rizen	which was an upgrade from my first job of "turd miner"	08:44
@tavisto	big balls in yo mouf	08:44
@tavisto	hey how's your nutritional program working out? are you going to be looking anorexic the next time I see you	08:45
@tavisto	my friends Nate and Kerry have fricken lost almost 50lbs a piece now.. They look totally different dude.. I actually stole some of their program and incorporated it in my routine	08:47
@rizen	no, i've lost 20 lbs, but that's where it stopped	08:47
@tavisto	not too shabby... that's like my left arm	08:47
@rizen	of course i haven't been sticking to it as rigidly as i should...going on vacation and all	08:47
@tavisto	riight	08:47
@rizen	i weigh nearly 2000 lbs, so that's only 1% of my body weight. can't really notice 1%	08:48
@tavisto	wow you carry it well	08:49
@tavisto	so does your lil civic hehe	08:49
@tavisto	actually though 20 is not too shabby. That's like half of one of those big ass dogfood bags	08:49
@rizen	for a while there i was going for the 1 ton mark, but i decided to let it settle off at 1900 lbs =)	08:50
@tavisto	that would be the equivalent of castrating me	08:50
@rizen	your sack is only 20lbs	08:50
@tavisto	hehe true	08:50
@rizen	each of my nuts is 100lbs, and the sack has got to be another 100lbs	08:51
@tavisto	boy the guys are in for a treat when they check the logs of this IRC chan tomorrow	08:51
@tavisto	hehe	08:51
@rizen	yup, they've go pixie pillows, turd miners, and 100 lb balls	08:51
@tavisto	code.... code.... rizen's nuts..... code code.... castrating tavis...... code code..... punching someone in the ovaries.....	08:51
@tavisto	lol pixie	08:51
@tavisto	that's actually my kinda woman	08:51
@tavisto	yet I'm dating a blond chick with short hair and big fake boobs	08:52
@tavisto	wtf is wrong with me	08:52
@tavisto	hella cool girl tho	08:52
@rizen	interesting...i'm looking at the old tivo here and noticed that i've got two episodes of monster quest to make me laugh my ass off before i go to bed	08:52
@tavisto	NICE!	08:52
@tavisto	my bet is on cat hair	08:52
@rizen	one is a "Megahog" and the other is something about Ghosts	08:53
@tavisto	dude... do megahog	08:53
@rizen	so i'm going with Megahog. i bet it's really a dog	08:53
@tavisto	that just screams redneck	08:53
@rizen	"he didn't even look like a pig, it was some kind of monster"	08:55
@tavisto	rizen, I may not be able to attend HostingCon as I think I'm going to head to Washington to visit a friend and his wife.	08:55
@tavisto	i dunno if we're still planning on attending or not	08:55
@tavisto	it's the 28th thru 30th	08:55
@tavisto	chicago	08:55
@rizen	no, i'm waaaaay too busy	08:55
@tavisto	k good	08:55
@rizen	they've had 7 "eye witnesses" so far, and i don't think any of them know how many branches of government we have	08:59
@tavisto	hehe	09:00
@tavisto	hey do you know if we have enough points for a free airline ticket yet? I've been checking everyday for my Kalamazoo to PDX flight and they're expensive as shit at $550-$580	09:01
@tavisto	through our amex	09:01
@tavisto	if you dont know I'll check with Vrby tomorrow	09:01
@rizen	i used a bunch of them and ended up wasting them	09:02
@tavisto	on a ticket?	09:02
@tavisto	did you get punked	09:02
@rizen	i transfereed them to tiffany's frontier airlines account to get her ticket to PDX	09:02
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6638 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): extend assetMetaData values to 255 characters. update hoverhelp	09:02
CIA-6	WebGUI: jt * r6639 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.5.10-7.5.11.pl: fixed several ems migration bugs	09:02
@rizen	and then found out that portland is a blackout city for frontier	09:02
@rizen	you can't use points for it	09:02
@tavisto	ouch	09:03
@rizen	i also found out that you're limited to very few airlines...most of which you've never heard of	09:03
@tavisto	really? wow I thought their program was almost any airline	09:04
@rizen	so i think we'll be using the points to buy hotel rooms instead	09:04
@tavisto	sounds good	09:04
@rizen	they let you transfer points to the hilton system	09:04
@tavisto	excellent	09:04
@tavisto	that includes a whole line of hotels	09:04
@tavisto	ranging from Hampton inn to Hilton Garden and etc... That's where my buddy dan always gets his rooms	09:04
@rizen	there are about 20 airlines you can transfer to	09:05
@rizen	the only two i had heard of were frontier and southwest	09:05
@tavisto	good lord, I wonder how many of the 20 I haven't heard of are still in business	09:06
@tavisto	so what's the latest on monsterquest	09:07
@rizen	we'll have a bunch of points next month though, cuz this month i spent about 30k on new laptops	09:07
@tavisto	awesome	09:07
@rizen	they just killed a horse trying to track down the pig	09:08
@rizen	the guy was stupidly trying to ride up a rocky hill and the horse slipped and rolled	09:08
@rizen	and they cut the film there	09:08
@rizen	so i'm guessing it's dead	09:08
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-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		09:09
@tavisto	oh nice.	09:10
@tavisto	was the guy on the horse?	09:10
@rizen	he jumped off as the horse rolled	09:10
@rizen	i take it back there was also jetblue and delta	09:10
@tavisto	that sux.. poor horsie	09:10
@tavisto	oh well delta is pretty decent :)	09:11
@tavisto	lol	09:11
@rizen	but jetblue is only east coast, and delta is mostly in the south	09:11
@tavisto	i dunno, I thought delta was around me quite a bit too	09:11
@rizen	the rest of their airlines are international carriers	09:11
@tavisto	ah okay	09:11
@rizen	air jamaca	09:11
@rizen	south african airways	09:11
@rizen	cathay pacific	09:12
@rizen	itc	09:12
@rizen	etc	09:12
@tavisto	eh mon!	09:12
@tavisto	south african airways.... flying death!	09:12
@rizen	they came back from commercial	09:12
@rizen	the horse actually survived	09:13
@rizen	but it took it 5 tries to stand	09:13
@rizen	on hotels amex does well though	09:14
@rizen	best western, radison, hilton, hyatt	09:15
@rizen	etc	09:15
@tavisto	excellent	09:15
@tavisto	damnit I think I'm going to arrive in Portland at 11am no matter what I do... downside.. my flight outta kzoo is at 6:30	09:16
@tavisto	aiiiiie!	09:16
@tavisto	tavisto = not morning person	09:16
@rizen	i can't even explain how they say "hog" on this program	09:19
@rizen	the eye witnesses i mean	09:20
@rizen	they say 'haw ag'	09:20
@tavisto	hehe	09:20
@rizen	and there it is	09:22
@rizen	scientist: this is a domestic pig. it was raised domestic and released or escaped into the wild	09:22
@rizen	local: look at it's fur and tusks, it can't be a domestic pig	09:23
@rizen	scientist: it's skull characteristics are consistent with that of a domestic pig	09:23
@rizen	local: ain't nobody gonna tell me this ain't no monster hog	09:24
@rizen	scientist: a domestic pig can go feral (grow out thick brown hair) in less than 2 weeks after being released into the wild	09:25
@tavisto	hehe	09:28
@tavisto	did they catch it?	09:28
@rizen	http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/157/20070525050159bn25hogrg9.jpg	09:28
@rizen	yes	09:28
@rizen	half dozen of them	09:28
@tavisto	holy crap	09:28
@tavisto	that's huge	09:28
@rizen	now they've captured a small wild pig and attached a camera to it	09:29
@tavisto	i had no idea that pigs get that big	09:29
@rizen	local: he's gonna bite, don't worry about it	09:29
@rizen	scientist: do you know how sharp those teeth are	09:29
@rizen	local: i got em, don't worry, he won't bite ya, i promise	09:29
@tavisto	hehe	09:30
@tavisto	someone is going to lose a finger	09:30
@rizen	http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/03/images/050322_hogzilla3.jpg	09:30
@tavisto	well the first picture pig is huuuuge	09:31
@rizen	http://www.stinkyjournalism.org/images/MonsterRabbit.jpg	09:31
@tavisto	haha	09:31
@tavisto	that would explain it	09:31
@rizen	they don't have the skull of the one from those pictures	09:32
@rizen	but they do have the skull of one that was weighed when it was killed	09:32
@rizen	at weighed in at 1100 lbs	09:32
@rizen	and they have a normal pig skull and show that this pig is indeed HUGE	09:33
@rizen	but still a domestic pig skull, not a wild boar	09:33
@tavisto	wow so that really isn't a modified pic of the 1st pig	09:33
@tavisto	that is a monster... if I saw it I would be on that show too...	09:33
@rizen	it does appear that this particular monster is real	09:34
@rizen	however, the locals still refuse to believe that these pigs aren't being bread in the wild	09:34
@tavisto	heh	09:34
@tavisto	as far as I'm concerned it doesn't matter because it could totally eff a human up and eat him	09:35
@rizen	another line from the scientist: there is plenty of food in the wild, but the food isn't high enough quality for them to grow this large	09:35
@tavisto	hmmm	09:35
@rizen	plus the wild hog they captured to put the video camera on....he's tiny	09:36
@rizen	i'm guessing sub 100 lbs	09:36
@rizen	i grew up on a pig farm...farm pigs are all much much much bigger	09:37
@rizen	the variety that my dad used to raise weighed in around 300lbs on average	09:37
@rizen	wow	09:38
@rizen	they just brought in a skull from the wild	09:39
@rizen	and the scientist said this is indeed a wild animal	09:39
@rizen	but the local said that it weighed over 700 lbs	09:39
@rizen	the scientist said, from the size of the skull this animal couldn't have weighed more than 400 lbs	09:40
@rizen	and more likely 300	09:40
@rizen	now here's the exact quote from the local	09:40
@rizen	"just from doing it so much you can kinda get close. and i'm not givin you an official weight"	09:41
@tavisto	damn	09:41
@rizen	he eyeballed the weight	09:41
@rizen	he didn't even weigh the pig	09:41
@rizen	=)	09:41
@tavisto	of course he didn't.	09:41
@tavisto	because he's playing the role of the MORON	09:41
@tavisto	go get in your truck, drink a bud light, and drive your truck off a cliff	09:41
@rizen	'hoeawg'	09:43
@rizen	maybe that's how they're saying it	09:43
@rizen	i can't figure out how you'd spell what they're saying	09:43
@rizen	it's definitely not hog	09:43
@rizen	and not eve hawg	09:43
@rizen	even	09:44
@tavisto	that's because you don't speak hillbilly	09:44
@tavisto	even though it's on the translation.webgui.org server	09:44
@rizen	last quote from a local: "there are giant hoeages, definitely big giant hoeages"	09:46
@rizen	on to ghosts	09:46
@rizen	no narration this time	09:46
@rizen	ttyl	09:46
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CIA-6	WebGUI: doug * r6640 /WebGUI/ (6 files in 5 dirs): fixed some problems with the new asset manager. restored functionality to search with the hope of making the asset data table an API we can use in all the places we display tables of assets	12:06
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a_ok	can spectre do its thing for more than one apache server on one machine?	12:45
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@preaction	yes	12:51
@preaction	theoretically you could even have more than one machine	12:51
@preaction	that's what the spectreIp and spectrePort settings are in your webgui config file	12:51
a_ok	preaction: sorry was out for lunch, manny thanks	13:33
a_ok	i am trying to make webgui work without a proxy server. Howerver i need some url's to be handled by apache and not trough webgui. how can I prevent that from happening?	13:39
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SDuensin	Morning.	16:10
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topsub	hey, I need to do a multi site setup. How did you guys do the webgui and plainblack site?	17:42
topsub	Is that documented anywere?	17:43
@rizen	not documented anywhere	17:52
@rizen	but by multi-site, do you mean two sites 1 database, or just multiple sites per server?	17:52
topsub	2 sites 1 database	17:52
topsub	i need to set this up for a client	17:52
topsub	but we will have around 17 sites i believe in total at the end of the project	17:53
@rizen	the number of sites is irrelevent	17:54
topsub	ya	17:54
@rizen	just create a new home page for each in the root of your asset tree	17:54
@rizen	each with different styles	17:54
@rizen	and each with a starting url that you can identify (ie not home1, home2	17:54
@rizen	but rather /pb /webgui	17:55
@rizen	that sort of thing	17:55
topsub	alright i follow	17:55
@rizen	then you have to add some virtual host fanciness to make sure that your domain is pointed to the right root home page	17:56
topsub	think thats were i am stuck	17:56
@rizen	RewriteRule ^/$ http://www.plainblack.com:8081/wg [P]	17:57
@rizen	RewriteRule ^/(.*) http://www.plainblack.com:8081/$1 [P]	17:57
@rizen	i created a webgui.org vhost file in the wore	17:57
@rizen	wre	17:57
@rizen	and added those two lines	17:57
@tavisto	so Rizen, how was the vampire episode last night? Thumbs up or down	17:57
@rizen	so the first one says, if the url ends in / (ie no page url is defined) then proxy the /wg page	17:58
@rizen	the second rule says, if a specific url is defined, use that instead	17:58
topsub	ah	17:58
topsub	i see	17:58
topsub	awesome!	17:58
topsub	doesnt' sound hard at all	17:58
@rizen	its not	17:58
@rizen	just have to know the trick	17:58
topsub	the rewriterule is the linking peice for me	17:59
topsub	thanks rizen	17:59
topsub	Think i can do it now	17:59
@rizen	i didn't watch the vampire episode...that was earlier in the week	17:59
@rizen	last night it was ghosts	17:59
@rizen	topsub, great, but now that i've helped you out with that, tell william to get off my back about thingy report =)	17:59
topsub	lol well i agree with him... thingy is limited	18:00
topsub	i will let him know tho!	18:00
@rizen	and the ghosts episode was boring...because the ghost hunter tpeople all have their act nailed down	18:00
@rizen	thingy is unlimited	18:00
topsub	if anything we will see you next week to discuss =)	18:00
topsub	well in the reporting side of things	18:01
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perlDreamer	okay, what's the scoop?	18:01
@rizen	scoop?	18:03
perlDreamer	are we still in bugfix mode?	18:03
@tavisto	ghost hunting is boring in general.. it's always fake	18:03
@rizen	perlDreamer is silly	18:04
@rizen	is the bug list clean?	18:04
perlDreamer	nope	18:04
@rizen	if not, then we're still in	18:04
CIA-6	WebGUI: meatbop * r6641 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/packages-7.5.11/ (4 files): Layout changes to templates for Product, Subscription, My Purchases and My Purchases Details	18:05
perlDreamer	very good	18:05
@rizen	i worked all night trying to clean up upgrade bugs	18:05
@rizen	still am not done with that	18:05
perlDreamer	upgrade bugs? with the EMS or in general?	18:05
@rizen	in general	18:05
@rizen	started with ems, but then ran into some problems migrating payment gateway configurations	18:06
@rizen	just got my first clean build 1 minute ago	18:06
perlDreamer	cool	18:06
perlDreamer	does meatbop have an AIM account?	18:06
@rizen	but now i have to test to make sure the site works	18:06
@rizen	yes he does	18:06
@rizen	i'll tell him to join irc though	18:07
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Meatbop	I hear someone was looking for me?	18:08
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@tavisto	yeah punk.. where is my money?	18:08
Meatbop	check's in the mail	18:08
slickware1	woah hello to you too	18:08
@tavisto	I'm gonna have to send 2 guidos to come break your knee caps	18:08
@tavisto	lol not you slick	18:09
slickware1	ha I know, I'm all paid up	18:09
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Meatbop	whatever you think you can afford	18:09
@tavisto	yep you are.. you are an official ageny hoster studmuffin... according to Colin anyway	18:09
perlDreamer	Meatbop: The subscription hasAddedToCart works for me	18:10
slickware1	just a muffin at the moment. once they are converted to paying clients i will add the stud part	18:10
slickware1	my goal is to do as little design work as possible and sell the shit out of the webgui aspect	18:12
slickware1	luckily it sells itself with a live demo	18:12
@tavisto	amen brotha	18:13
perlDreamer	does anyone know if the calendar list view is in 7.5 only, or in both 7.4 or 7.5?	18:22
perlDreamer	Haarg: I need to cross-branch package fix/merge help	18:24
@Haarg	calendar list is 7.5	18:25
perlDreamer	sweet, thanks	18:25
perlDreamer	next question :)	18:25
perlDreamer	I committed a package with a fixed template in 7.5, but need to backport it to 7.4 as well	18:25
@Haarg	which template?	18:25
perlDreamer	layout/news	18:26
perlDreamer	url is plainblacknews	18:26
@Haarg	ok, are you having a problem with it?	18:26
perlDreamer	Where should I put it? packages-7.5.11 or packages-7.4.??	18:26
perlDreamer	in the same place in both branches?	18:27
@Haarg	packages-7.4.x	18:27
@Haarg	for 7.4 that is	18:27
@Haarg	packages-7.5.11 for 7.5	18:27
perlDreamer	so when you upgrade to the 7.5 branch, you'd get it applied twice?	18:27
@Haarg	possibly	18:27
perlDreamer	as long as that's cool with y'all, I'll do it.	18:27
slickware1	Is there still the "small calendar" view in 7.5 ?	18:28
@Haarg	we're going to have a lot of fiddling to do with the 7.4->7.5 patch	18:28
@Haarg	small calendar?	18:28
perlDreamer	slickware1: that's a custom template that I developed for 7.4 in the Add Ons section.	18:28
perlDreamer	it would need some fiddling but it should be easy for an agency hoster to figure out ;)	18:28
slickware1	custom template? one of my old v5 sites has smallcalendar as an option	18:29
perlDreamer	the 7.4/7.5 calendar does not come with a small calendar template in the default install	18:32
perlDreamer	since lots of people were asking for it, I made one	18:32
perlDreamer	but it's probably out of date	18:32
slickware1	shame	18:32
slickware1	big Calendar is just SO big	18:32
@tavisto	yes it is	18:33
@tavisto	and rigid	18:33
slickware1	oh, I remember my other question.	18:33
slickware1	there used to be a way to expire content on a certain date/time, but I don't see it. Did that disappear or do I have to turn it on somewhere?	18:33
perlDreamer	it went away, but it's coming back in 7.5.11	18:33
slickware1	tavisto: i think you mean big and turgid. or engorged.	18:34
slickware1	perlDreamer: really - that's an extremely useful feature... is there a workaround until then? people have asked me for it	18:34
perlDreamer	the workaround is to download the old template and figure out what needs to be changed (if anything)	18:35
@tavisto	no, I meant rigid, do a define:rigid on google :)	18:35
slickware1	perlDreamer: i meant the "expire content on" feature	18:36
perlDreamer	oh, that? I believe that it can be done with cron job version tags	18:36
perlDreamer	but ask that question on the PB support boards	18:36
perlDreamer	where you'll get real answers	18:37
slickware1	is that something a user would even be able to figure out?	18:37
slickware1	a lot of my clients are chambers of commerce, who basically post their upcoming events as big articles, and would like to see them expire on the day after they are over	18:37
@Haarg	it's not a simple process	18:37
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6642 /WebGUI/docs/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fix a CSS class typo in the layout/news template	18:37
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6643 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/docs/ (3 files in 3 dirs): backport fix for the layout/news template	18:37
@Haarg	you need to create a workflow specifically for it etc	18:38
slickware1	damn	18:38
slickware1	that was a great feature in v5	18:38
@rizen	7.5 has the feature once again	18:38
@Haarg	that's why it's coming back :)	18:38
slickware1	oh ok, so it is coming back	18:38
slickware1	good	18:38
@Haarg	perlDreamer, did you happen to notice when looking at the character set issue if it reset the not null restriction?	18:39
perlDreamer	I don't remember.	18:39
@Haarg	ok, i'll double check	18:40
slickware1	tavis: when you used to agency host, if a feature "disappeared" from a version on an upgrade, what did you tell your clients if they actually noticed it was missing?	18:40
@tavisto	there were quite a few times in 6.x where this happened but it was because of bugs	18:45
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perlDreamer	most things that disappeared in 6.x were replaced with better stuff	18:46
@tavisto	ok, guess he didn't like my answer	18:46
perlDreamer	things that disappeared: macros that were security holes	18:46
perlDreamer	and the timed content function	18:46
@tavisto	yeah, you said that's coming back? a start and end date?	18:47
perlDreamer	yes	18:47
perlDreamer	khenn built it, I think	18:47
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@tavisto	excellent, I've assisted some users that will appreciate that	18:47
perlDreamer	slickware: most things that disappeared in 6.x were replaced with better stuff	18:47
perlDreamer	things that disappeared: macros that were security holes	18:47
perlDreamer	and the timed content function	18:47
slickware	that's understandable	18:47
slickware	(and the small calendar) :)	18:48
@tavisto	slick, most of the time when it happened it was because of bugs preventing stuff from working the same way.. and was only temporary	18:48
perlDreamer	that's just a template. The ability to make that is there.	18:48
@tavisto	but yeah the new list view makes the calendar much more flexible.. I would like to see a smaller version again too	18:48
slickware	list view is pretty good	18:48
@khenn	khenn built what?	18:50
@khenn	oh timed start and end dates yes	18:51
@khenn	but they work on version tags	18:51
@khenn	not individual pieces of content	18:51
@khenn	so at the very least you need to have the commit screen enabled to use it	18:51
slickware	is that in the new version?	18:53
@bopbop	I don't understand why the change was made for 7.5.11 to have the version tags "hidden"	18:53
@khenn	slickware: yes	18:53
@khenn	7.5.11	18:53
slickware	so what does that mean for a user	18:54
slickware	there still won't be a "great" way to expire one piece of content?	18:54
@khenn	it means they can set a date that they would like a version tag to appear or expire on a page	18:54
@bopbop	if have that one piece of content the only thing in the version tag it's fine	18:54
@khenn	right	18:54
@khenn	have one thing in the version tag	18:54
slickware	damn it, so turning off version tags is going to kick me in the ass	18:55
@khenn	version tags still exist behind the scenes	18:55
@khenn	you'll need to enable the commit screen though	18:55
@tavisto	slick you mean have request auto commit enabled?	18:55
@khenn	you can have auto commit on	18:55
perlDreamer	bopbop: some customers violently hated version control, so in the interest in making "Default" WebGUI easy to use, the default was to make auto-commit and auto-comment enabled.	18:56
@khenn	as long as you enable the commit comments screen you'll be able to see the dates	18:56
@bopbop	did the majority "violently hate" it?	18:56
slickware	i violently hate it	18:56
@khenn	heh	18:56
perlDreamer	I don't know what kind of polling was done.	18:56
slickware	for me, it's the equivalent of macOSX asking you every time "are you sure?"	18:57
@bopbop	I just wonder if the change was made to silence the minority	18:57
@bopbop	and now the majority is going to grumble...	18:57
perlDreamer	I get your point.	18:57
@tavisto	tavisto hops in his humvee and mans the 50cal	18:58
perlDreamer	rizen: every sub-sku seems to have a thank you message. At some point we might want to consider pushing that back into Sku	18:59
perlDreamer	but not today :)	18:59
@rizen	perlDreamer...i don't really like the thank you message. i just don't know what to do that's better	19:00
@rizen	until we figure out a good way to deal with it, i'd rather not generalize it	19:00
perlDreamer	not a problem	19:00
@rizen	also...the EMS subskus don't have it and don't need it	19:00
@rizen	cuz they are added to the cart via ajax calls	19:00
@tavisto	Kristi if I remember correctly, that was done for ease of use	19:01
@bopbop	I understand, I'm just thinking for those "average" users who like to work in inline so they can keep seeing their work	19:01
@bopbop	it's just one more step now to make that possible	19:01
@bopbop	but .... people are lazy and will resent it	19:02
@rizen	bopbop: its not just members of the community that hate version tags, it's also a big portion of our clients. they were all (most) asking for versioning, and i said "are you sure, do you understand the implications of that" and they said "yes yes, just do it"	19:02
@rizen	butnow that it's there, people don't like it	19:02
@rizen	at least until it saves their ass	19:02
@rizen	then they love it	19:02
@rizen	=)	19:02
@tavisto	wow, I was unaware	19:02
@bopbop	I see both views, I'm just curious to see what happens	19:03
perlDreamer	someone will scream really loud, and we'll change WebGUI again	19:03
@rizen	existing sites will be uneffected	19:03
@rizen	it's only new sites that will have it turned off by default	19:03
@bopbop	even in the upgrade?	19:03
@bopbop	ok	19:03
@bopbop	so we won't be changing the status quo on anyone	19:04
@rizen	correct	19:04
@bopbop	then it won't be a big deal, probably	19:04
@khenn	right	19:04
@rizen	we do need a new video in webgui though	19:04
@rizen	cuz the current one shows using version tags	19:04
@khenn	rizen: do you want me to remove the entire js folder?	19:05
@khenn	from extras?	19:05
@rizen	yes	19:05
@khenn	or is there something else in there being used?	19:05
@khenn	k	19:05
perlDreamer	values for a user's profile are created when they register with data from Visitor, right?	19:11
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6644 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): add a thank you message to the FlatDiscount/Coupon	19:20
CIA-6	WebGUI: jt * r6645 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 2 dirs): commerce bug fixes	19:20
CIA-6	WebGUI: meatbop * r6646 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/packages-7.5.11/root_import_webgui-7-style-3.wgpkg: Made a few graphical changes to Style 3 to accommodate the new dropdown menu	19:20
CIA-6	WebGUI: jt * r6647 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/PayDriver_ITransact.pm: remove all reference to CDG	19:20
Meatbop	I'm getting a "Data error" when trying to view any templates in the Shop folder, anyone else experiencing that?	19:22
perlDreamer	Meatbop, is that in the AssetManager?	19:23
Meatbop	yep	19:23
perlDreamer	okay, that's a javascript problem with the new assetManager that preaction has cooked up.	19:23
@rizen	perlDreamer: not sure anymore, that used to be true, but now i think it might get created from the defaults. just can't remember	19:23
perlDreamer	It just means that it has no children	19:23
Meatbop	really? did the templates that were in it get moved out?	19:24
perlDreamer	I'll check	19:24
Meatbop	plus, if it doesn't have children, it shouldn't have the + next to the folder name, should it?	19:25
@khenn	perlDreamer: can we remove www/extras/operations/salesTaxAjax.js ?	19:28
@khenn	I assume that was for the old sales tax stuff in commerce	19:28
@khenn	and is no longer used	19:28
perlDreamer	khenn: yes	19:28
perlDreamer	all the new sales tax uses YUI	19:28
@khenn	alright, I'm going to remove it	19:28
perlDreamer	Meatbop, what's the URL for that folder?	19:29
perlDreamer	the assetManager isn't paginating for me anymore	19:29
Meatbop	shopping-cart-collateral-items	19:29
perlDreamer	that's a bug	19:30
@tavisto	hey guys I'm assuming that existing transactions from the old e-commerce system will be retained and migrated into the new transaction reporting?	19:32
perlDreamer	tavisto: it looks like old transactions are migrated	19:35
Meatbop	perlDreamer: if that's the case, how does one go about modifying the various templates within the folder?	19:35
@tavisto	okay great. For some reason I have never asked that question. :)	19:35
@rizen	tavisto, the old transactions will be printed on toilet paper, rolled in mud, and flushed down the toilet	19:36
slickware	that's basically how i store all my receipts	19:37
@tavisto	uh huh.... laugh it up Rizen, just wait until I show you my new HHO gas powered Lightsaber at wuc prep...	19:38
perlDreamer	Meatbop: good question. I'll see if I can find a way	19:38
perlDreamer	Meatbop: manually enter the URL for the folder with admin turned on	19:39
perlDreamer	the folder will give you a list of editing controls for the templates inside	19:39
Meatbop	gotcha, it's just the asset manager is hosed, the template for displaying them isn't	19:40
Meatbop	makes sense	19:40
perlDreamer	wait a sec, that's not the URL for the templates, that's the collateral?	19:40
perlDreamer	another way is to drop an asset, hit edit, use the display tab and there will be an edit button next to each template	19:41
Meatbop	right, I just knew the cart template was in that folder and was like, Um... what?, when I got that error	19:41
perlDreamer	it worked last night, but I see that there have been some updates to it since then	19:42
@khenn	how come that CIA bot doesn't report my commits?	19:43
@Haarg	it usually takes a while for them to show up	19:45
perlDreamer	it's constipated	19:47
perlDreamer	it's anti-Tank	19:47
ckotil	khenn is NSA	19:48
perlDreamer	since khenn is invisible to radar, CIA doesn't see him	19:48
@khenn	stealth commits INC!	19:48
slickware	it's the tinfoil hat	19:48
@khenn	l337 haxx0r	19:49
@khenn	=)	19:49
slickware	alright Zero Cool, calm down	19:50
perlDreamer	CIA-6 needs some Bots-Lax	19:51
slickware	woo... my WGDesignGuide just showed up	19:54
slickware	time to go retire to the bathroom :-D	19:54
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perlDreamer	Haarg: did you already check this bug in your rewrite of the DataForm? http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/data-form-deletes-files-on-resave	20:02
@Haarg	yeah, it doesn't apply to 7.5	20:02
perlDreamer	cool	20:03
CIA-6	WebGUI: frank * r6648 /WebGUI/www/extras/ (3 files in 2 dirs): removed this directory as it is legacy code for the old commerce system.	20:07
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6649 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/docs/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fix bad css in the default wiki page template	20:07
CIA-6	WebGUI: colin * r6650 /WebGUI/docs/ (2 files in 2 dirs): forward porting the bad css fix for the default wiki page	20:07
@rizen	hey colin, found a bug in product conversion	20:08
@rizen	sorry, should use "perlDreamer" so it beeps at you	20:08
@rizen	products that didn't have variants don't appear to get a name in the add to cart dropdown list	20:08
@tavisto	gah, squash that	20:08
perlDreamer	I'll look at it	20:09
perlDreamer	I mentioned this in passing to Meatbob, but the assetManager is borked.	20:09
@rizen	Meatbop...our products section is going to need some serious help after tonights upgrade	20:09
@rizen	the new template you created are wreaking havoc...but that's somewhat to be expected	20:10
Meatbop	yeah I suppose so	20:10
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