WebGUI irc logs from: 2008-02.log

--- Log opened Sun Feb 10 21:48:41 2008
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perlmonkey2	Oh man....this sucks. I deleted a webgui page that another webgui page was grabbing an RSS feed from. Now a few hours later the site is crashed and won't come back up. Mysql won't restart and modproxy.error.log is saying error reading status line from remote server	01:31
perlmonkey2	Where does the wre write the mysql error logs to, I don't see them in var/log	01:32
perlmonkey2	What does this mean when I try to manually start mysql? Starting MySQL ERROR! Couldn't find MySQL manager or server	01:36
@preaction	are you running the right environment?	01:39
perlmonkey2	network issues	01:46
* perlmonkey2 really really really wishes his client would have went with PB hosting.		01:46
perlmonkey2	although if you could point me at anything that could help me with WRE backups, I'd appreciate it. The wiki search didn't return anything.	01:47
@preaction	you mean automatic backups using wre/sbin/backup.pl?	01:50
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perlmonkey2	preaction: yes. The backup users doesn't have permissions, and I can't connect to the wre mysql with the mysql CL client.	02:27
@preaction	so you have a backup user, and in that user's cron you source in the WRE's environment and then run backup.pl?	02:29
@preaction	i think you have to do it as root probably	02:29
perlmonkey2	preaction: I am running the wre sbin/backup.pl as root, but the error is that the backup mysql user doesn't have permissions.	02:30
perlmonkey2	Couldn't connect to MySQL because DBI connect('test;host=localhost;port=3306','backup',...) failed: Access denied for user 'backup'@'localhost' (using password: YES) at /data/wre/lib/WRE/Mysql.pm line 93	02:30
perlmonkey2	at ./backup.pl line 79	02:30
@preaction	oh. you might need to set up that user, or use the root user	02:30
perlmonkey2	I would, but I can not connect to the mysql server with the mysql client.	02:30
perlmonkey2	Is there something I need to set up to connect to the wre instance of mysqld?	02:31
@preaction	not that i know of	02:31
@preaction	are you getting a permissions denied using the cli client too?	02:31
perlmonkey2	no, just	02:32
perlmonkey2	[root@li6-7 etc]# mysql -uwebgui -p	02:32
perlmonkey2	Enter password:	02:32
perlmonkey2	ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock' (2)	02:32
@preaction	you aren't using the right environment	02:32
perlmonkey2	DOH!	02:32
perlmonkey2	arg!	02:32
perlmonkey2	dumb, stupid perlmonkey2	02:33
perlmonkey2	I beg forgiveness for wasting your time.	02:33
@preaction	i need someone who isn't a mac fanboi to give an opinion on a Mac Mini	02:33
@preaction	it's about $1050 to get the one I want, tricked out with power, but i could probably fix my newly-broken computer for a tenth of that	02:34
@preaction	i'm just tired of dealing with computer hardware	02:34
perlmonkey2	A Mac Mini sounds cool	02:35
@preaction	1) Web / Internet 2) DVD / Music 3) Emulators 4) BitTorrent. the only problem is 4 requires massive amounts of hard disk space, which the mini don't have	02:35
@preaction	those are the 4 things my tv computer currently does	02:35
@preaction	i think i should move number 4 out to another, dedicated system	02:35
@preaction	i've got a computer that's been sitting dead for at least 4 months now, i could resurrect it with the parts from the TV computer	02:36
perlmonkey2	the mac mini's drive not only is small but it is slow.... at 5400 rpm laptop drive.	02:37
@preaction	i don't think the mini's designed with high performance in mind	02:38
@preaction	i think it's single-task oriented	02:38
@preaction	a mac pro would do the job, but those are even more expensive	02:38
perlmonkey2	I have a Q6600 4 GB DDR667, 350GB 7200 SATA2, with case for $700.	02:40
@preaction	you're selling?	02:40
perlmonkey2	no	02:40
perlmonkey2	hah	02:40
perlmonkey2	That's what I built it for	02:41
perlmonkey2	It is my main desktop/workstation	02:41
@preaction	i think i built my TV computer for about that. with twice the storage and half the RAM. $150 on the GFX card itself.	02:41
perlmonkey2	and that was like last August...things should be cheaper.	02:41
@preaction	that's just it though, building computers is boring. maintaining hardware is boring	02:42
@preaction	and frustrating	02:42
perlmonkey2	I agree	02:42
@preaction	just out of the blue the TV computer (selene) starts a spontaneous reboot cycle	02:42
perlmonkey2	but a lot cheaper	02:42
perlmonkey2	suck	02:42
@preaction	i'm willing to bet it's due to the cooling system dying	02:42
perlmonkey2	btb, where does the wre write the mysql logs too. It still wont' start up.	02:42
@preaction	or the power supply dying	02:42
perlmonkey2	power is likely	02:43
@preaction	should be /data/wre/var/mysqldata/something.err	02:43
perlmonkey2	cooling is easy to check....does it reboot right afte ryou start it, or after it is working.	02:43
@preaction	after it's working for a while, but hasn't finished the initial load. OS gets booted, XP starts and gets into explorer, then before it's done loading components and drivers and such, it bombs	02:44
@preaction	then it either gets a little less further next time, or just sits there spinning	02:44
perlmonkey2	sounds like power	02:44
@preaction	and the case i have under the TV has a special, tiny power supply... gotta find one of thems...	02:45
perlmonkey2	Hmm, ./wreservice.pl --start mysql	02:45
perlmonkey2	Start MySQL: FAILED!	02:45
perlmonkey2	Yet nothing in the mysql.err logs	02:45
@preaction	not that, using mysqld_safe or something	02:45
@preaction	that wreservice.pl script hides a lot of things	02:46
perlmonkey2	k, I'll try it directly	02:46
@preaction	might be in a log though, /data/wre/var/logs somewhere perhaps	02:46
perlmonkey2	No, nothing in the logs.	02:47
perlmonkey2	I'm running tail -f var/logs/*	02:47
perlmonkey2	[root@li6-7 mysql]# ./mysql.server start	02:47
perlmonkey2	Starting MySQL ERROR! Couldn't find MySQL manager or server	02:47
@preaction	mysql.server is a shell script, right?	02:50
perlmonkey2	I think it is the actual mysql binary...I'll open it	02:50
perlmonkey2	oh, sheel	02:50
perlmonkey2	wife is sick...brb	02:51
perlmonkey2	I bet this is because I changed the company name .... It went from working fine to a few hours later, not working and no one did anything.	03:01
@preaction	doesn't sound like that would screw things up	03:02
perlmonkey2	But mysql keeps failing to start and there is nothing in the logs	03:03
@preaction	it says something like "Couldn't find MySQL manager or server", which means that the shell script doesn't know where to look for the mysqld	03:04
perlmonkey2	but I've ran the setenv script	03:04
perlmonkey2	I can see the LD env params	03:05
@preaction	right, i had this happen to me once, and i don't remember how i fixed it or what was actually wrong	03:05
perlmonkey2	wow, this really sucks...I've got a client wondering what happened to his site.	03:05
@preaction	i just remember i looked in that script and echoed out the paths the script got	03:06
perlmonkey2	I guess I'll tell him he shoul dhave wnet with PB	03:06
perlmonkey2	k	03:06
perlmonkey2	I'll try that.	03:06
@preaction	did you try running /data/wre/prereqs/bin/mysqld_safe ?	03:06
perlmonkey2	not yet	03:09
perlmonkey2	something is horribly wrong.....	03:09
@preaction	that's the shell script i was talking about, not the other thing	03:09
perlmonkey2	okay, finally got the error output: 080210 20:12:42 [ERROR] /data/wre/prereqs/libexec/mysqld: Can't create/write to file '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.pid' (Errcode: 2)	03:13
perlmonkey2	080210 20:12:42 [ERROR] Can't start server: can't create PID file: No such file or directory	03:13
perlmonkey2	should I create a mysqld directory in /var/run?	03:13
perlmonkey2	what has happened?	03:14
@preaction	it shouldn't be trying to do that. you can specify on the command-line what you want the pid file to be i think. somewhere in that shell script is the key	03:14
perlmonkey2	But hwo would the my.cnf file be changed?	03:15
@preaction	it wasn't. that script can override the my.cnf file	03:15
perlmonkey2	wait a second.....there shouldn't be a my.cnf in /etc/	03:15
@preaction	no, there shouldn't	03:16
@preaction	it shouldn't be looking for one either. that script shouldn't have any reference to it	03:16
perlmonkey2	looks like my clients two bit hoster does one of those "reimages" where htey "auto-fix" anything tha tisn't normal.	03:16
perlmonkey2	removing the /etc/my.cnf fixed it.	03:17
@preaction	nice	03:17
perlmonkey2	the wre install isntructions say to copy it to .old	03:17
perlmonkey2	wow.....maybe it isn't too late for me to get them to move to PB.	03:17
@preaction	we have VPS at reasonable rates	03:18
perlmonkey2	the client didn't go with PB because of disk.	03:22
perlmonkey2	But if their two bit hoster can't stop playing with the os config files, it wont' matter how much disk they have.	03:23
perlmonkey2	well this is no good, the root password for mysql isn't working, now that i can connect.	03:34
@preaction	uhoh	03:34
-!- Samus_Aran [n=ILL@about/linux/supportwhirlwind/SamusAran] has joined #WebGUI		03:36
perlmonkey2	I can reset it, but how did it get changed :D	03:36
Samus_Aran	does anyone know why WebGUI might be running in ultra slow motion ? it is taking an average 5 to 10 seconds to load a page, on an unloaded server with tons of RAM	03:37
Samus_Aran	the spectre perl daemon keeps on ending up with hundreds of MiB of RAM used. and wait state is the main thing that seems to be shooting up in top	03:37
Samus_Aran	the apache processes are using little CPU themselves	03:37
Samus_Aran	I am using the latest stable release. I haven't used WebGUI since version 4.x, which was lightning fast even on an old system, so I'm not too sure what's going on now	03:38
perlmonkey2	hey, I'm having that exact same problem	03:39
perlmonkey2	Does the wre phone home and autoupdate?	03:39
Samus_Aran	perlmonkey2: hm	03:39
Samus_Aran	what is a wre ?	03:40
perlmonkey2	webgui runtime environment	03:41
Samus_Aran	ah. I don't know much about the WRE, as I installed manually. the server has other web sites and databases on it, so I can't use the WRE	03:41
+Radix-wrk	Samus_Aran: I'd highly recommend the wre if you want a fast/optimised webgui setup these days	03:41
Samus_Aran	Radix-wrk: we have only one server, and it already runs database and web content. not sure how the WRE could be usable in such a situation	03:42
perlmonkey2	Radix-wrk: I'm on my second server meltdown using the wre....never had any problems with source.	03:43
Samus_Aran	does anyone know if this ultra sluggy issue is just with the most recent release, or if it has been a problem for people for a while ? (or is it just me)	03:43
+Radix-wrk	Fair enough - though you may want to look at some of the settings for the wre and how it's set up to get an idea of how to optimise things	03:43
perlmonkey2	I can't log into the database with root, even though I reset the password	03:43
perlmonkey2	or at least think I did.	03:43
Samus_Aran	I followed the guide more or less exactly. it is up and running without visible errors	03:43
Samus_Aran	but the spectre script is using huge amounts of RAM, which doesn't seem normal to me. and there is apparently heavy disk writing, as the IO wait time goes up to 60% for many seconds after I do something on the WebGUI site	03:44
Samus_Aran	I don't mind up or downgrading if it might help	03:45
@preaction	what is spectre spinning its gears on?	03:45
Samus_Aran	I have no content yet ... but it took me ten minutes just to delete a couple items off the menus. =/	03:45
@preaction	if you turn off spectre, does the site respond faster?	03:45
Samus_Aran	preaction: I thought spectre was required for it to run. or is it only required for versioning ? I will most likely not be using versioning on this site, just server backups	03:46
Samus_Aran	I will try closing spectre	03:46
@preaction	spectre is required for executing workflows and scheduled tasks (which spawn workflows). it's the offline execution engine.	03:46
@preaction	things will work without it, but some things won't happen unless it's running	03:46
@preaction	like sending mail	03:46
@preaction	or committing version tags	03:46
Samus_Aran	well, the contact form needs to e-mail the message	03:47
Samus_Aran	does that use spectre ?	03:47
@preaction	even if you're not using versioning, you may need spectre (if your default workflow is not "Commit Content Immediately")	03:47
@preaction	yes	03:47
@preaction	we're trying to narrow down the list of possible causes here	03:47
@preaction	so we turn off spectre, and then try loading pages	03:47
@preaction	what kind of system are you running this on? 1Ghz / 1Gig are about the minimum i would attempt to run WebGUI on these days	03:48
Samus_Aran	I did "perl spectre.pl --shutdown" and continued to use the web pages. it is still the same slow speed	03:48
Samus_Aran	dual 1.6Ghz, 1GiB RAM	03:48
@preaction	okay. how's vmstat look? are we swapping in and/or out?	03:49
Samus_Aran	preaction: that is a pretty sad minimum requirement. sigh. I guess I should have researched before trying WebGUI 7.x	03:49
@preaction	why? webgui is huge. and in order to get quicker responses it does a lot of caching, both on-disk and in-memory	03:50
Samus_Aran	the Linux kernel caches things very well, caching by the app will only end up swapping to disk	03:50
@preaction	it caches mysql queries? perl object instanciation?	03:51
Samus_Aran	files	03:51
Samus_Aran	other PHP code that uses databases on this system is instantaneous. page loads in under .1 second	03:51
Samus_Aran	minimum 5 seconds on WeGUI currently, with an average of around 8 seconds	03:51
Samus_Aran	sometimes 20-30	03:52
@preaction	you can't compare "other PHP code that uses databases" to "WebGUI". they're entirely different beasts	03:52
Samus_Aran	also spectre is often using up 8-10% CPU when no page requests are going on, that seems quite excessive for a background monitoring daemon	03:52
@preaction	WebGUI has an average of 30 db reads and 1 write per request	03:53
@preaction	it's not a monitoring daemon, it's an offline execution daemon	03:53
Samus_Aran	so long as the database is left open, that would still be nearly instantaneous on this system	03:53
@preaction	it runs things that would cause browsers to time-out or that users don't want to see running	03:53
@preaction	which is why we're troubleshooting, no?	03:53
Samus_Aran	which way do you want me to check the vmstat you asked about ?	03:54
@preaction	i just wanted to see if your box was swapping. that could cause significant delays and IO wait. are you running webgui in its own apache or alongside mod_php and others?	03:55
@preaction	you're using prefork right?	03:55
Samus_Aran	preaction: (regarding the multiple database queries, one of the other sites here sometimes has dozens of database queries per hit as well, always under half a second)	03:56
Samus_Aran	apache you mean ?	03:56
Samus_Aran	apache2-mpm-prefork is already the newest version.	03:57
Samus_Aran	that's what is on there now	03:57
Samus_Aran	the server is running Ubuntu 6.06 LTS	03:57
Samus_Aran	Apache/2.0.55	03:57
@preaction	okay. now, you're using PerlRequire /data/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl right?	03:57
@preaction	you're also using Apache2::Reload to make sure the apache processes don't get out of control, right?	03:59
Samus_Aran	http://rafb.net/p/iJzHcV35.txt << this is the virtual host	03:59
Samus_Aran	(I replaced the domain name with "foo")	03:59
@preaction	er.. sizelimit, right. not reload	04:00
Samus_Aran	how would I check about Apache2::Reload ?	04:00
@preaction	don't worry about it, devs would use it	04:00
@preaction	bad for production servers	04:00
@preaction	uhm... WebguiRoot is /data/WebGUI but PerlRequire /var/www/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl ? where is WebGUI really?	04:01
@preaction	how many megs are these apache processes taking up? shouldn't be any more than 80 or 90M	04:01
Samus_Aran	WebGUI is installed to /var/www/WebGUI. for each place the documentation mentioned a path in a file, I updated it accordingly	04:01
Samus_Aran	Apache2::Reload is up to date (0.09).	04:02
Samus_Aran	(from cpan	04:02
Samus_Aran	)	04:02
@preaction	so why PerlSetVar WebguiRoot /data/WebGUI ?	04:02
Samus_Aran	http://rafb.net/p/mh7NHq38.txt << apache processes	04:03
Samus_Aran	it is ? I redid the virtual host at some point after I messed things up, I may have missed it the second time. goes to look	04:03
Samus_Aran	how could it run without that being set ?	04:04
Samus_Aran	I have adjusted it now, restarting apache	04:04
Samus_Aran	I have noticed since restarting Apache that the initial apache process, the one run by root that I assume spawns the others, is sitting there using CPU (3-10% average)	04:11
Samus_Aran	hm	04:11
Samus_Aran	no change in page loading/editing speed	04:12
@preaction	i would say the problem is probably that since WebGUI isn't the only thing being done by that apache, it doesn't keep a lot of the WebGUI stuff in-memory (frees space to be used to load other scripts)	04:14
@preaction	is this a production box? could you test with only webgui vhost on?	04:14
@preaction	i run the WRE, so i got no clue. but you could run the WRE's mod_perl instance behind your own apache running mod_proxy (much like the WRE does)	04:14
Samus_Aran	it is a production box, however the organisation is not large, and it only really needs to be functional during weekdays	04:15
+Radix-wrk	I use the wre, but have a separate apache install for php websites and use the wre's modproxy to do the work	04:15
Samus_Aran	so I could try something else right now	04:15
+Radix-wrk	so mod_perl for webgui is on port 81, mod_php on port 82, etc	04:16
+Radix-wrk	does the webgui admin guide have much info on tuning apache/mod_proxy?	04:17
@apeiron	Radix-wrk, So the mod_proxy server receives all the requests on 80, and then forwards internally to 81 or 82, etc., es?	04:17
@apeiron	s/es/yes/	04:17
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Samus_Aran	I am willing to try the WRE in that way. didn't know it could co-exist with a regular Apache/PHP/Perl/MySQL setup	04:19
@preaction	yeah. the WRE is two apache instances: one mod_proxy, one mod_perl. i've had a few people forgoe the mod	04:20
@preaction	_proxy one and just run the mod_perl one	04:20
+Radix-wrk	the biggest issue is more with mysql - as it won't co-exist with another instance	04:24
+Radix-wrk	I switched distro's mysql databases over to the wre one myself, but you can do it the other way if you want too	04:25
+Radix-wrk	that's the only hassle with co-existance really though	04:25
@preaction	yeah, shouldn't matter if you do or do not use the wre's mysql really	04:26
@preaction	hell. you might be able to get by just by stealing the modperl.conf file out of the WRE and running it with your own apache	04:26
@preaction	whether it's the WRE's apache or not shouldn't matter. just give webgui its own dedicated bit of apache + memory (2 processes perhaps)	04:27
+Radix-wrk	I run my wre on a virtual server with 256mb ram myself - seems to run fine	04:28
@preaction	how much cache does mysql have? 300M+?	04:28
+Radix-wrk	I did tweak the mysql settings down a bit to compensate, but juga.biz is still pretty fast	04:28
+Radix-wrk	I forget what I actually changed tho :)	04:29
+Radix-wrk	http://webgui.pastebin.com/m715140a5 - that's a copy of my my.cnf file with 256MB ram	04:33
Samus_Aran	okay. I was away a bit, back now.	04:49
Samus_Aran	preaction: how do you think I should proceed at this point ?	04:49
Samus_Aran	trying a manual install of the latest beta or using the WRE with my existing setup, or ?	04:49
@preaction	see how well webgui runs when it's the only thing on the apache server, probably by making a seperate apache instance that only runs WebGUI (on a different port)	04:50
Samus_Aran	I don't mind turning off Apache/MySQL/etc. for testing	04:50
@preaction	well, it's not spectre, you could probably turn that back on	04:51
Samus_Aran	will try the WRE in /data/WebGUI then	04:51
@preaction	wait, what?	04:51
Samus_Aran	mm ?	04:52
Samus_Aran	I was going to turn off MySQL and Apache and try the WRE by itself, to check perormance	04:52
Samus_Aran	*performance	04:52
@preaction	ok	04:52
Samus_Aran	is wre-0.8.1-ubuntu-6_server-ia32.tar.gz the correct file ?	04:54
@preaction	probably. are you running a 32-bit cpu?	04:54
Samus_Aran	yes	04:54
Samus_Aran	the install notes have conflicting information about the directory structure underneath /data	05:04
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Samus_Aran	the non-symlink instructions will end up with /data/wre and the symlink instructions will give you /data/wre/wre	05:04
Samus_Aran	I assume with only one "wre" is the correct structure	05:04
Samus_Aran	"Create your DNS entries (or add entries to /etc/hosts) for the sites you will be using, including the AWStats site."	05:06
Samus_Aran	what is AWStats ?	05:06
@preaction	it's an apache log analyzer	05:07
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Samus_Aran	preaction: I was away, back to trying out the WRE now. I thought it came with its own MySQL ? it is saying when going through the web based installer that it couldn't connect to a MySQL server	06:58
Samus_Aran	Couldn't connect to MySQL because DBI connect('test;host=localhost;port=3306','root',...) failed	06:59
Samus_Aran	I shut down MySQL and Apache, and renamed the my.conf file, prior to running this installer	06:59
@preaction	it does, did you start it? are you running the right environment? before working with the WRE stuff you need to source in ". /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment.sh"	06:59
@preaction	(the space between the . and / is important)	07:00
Samus_Aran	I did "source setenvironment.sh" prior to starting the web installer	07:01
Samus_Aran	which should be the same as .	07:02
@preaction	what does wreservice.pl --ping mysql say?	07:02
Samus_Aran	I have both /data/WebGUI and /data/wre, is that correct ?	07:04
Samus_Aran	Ping MySQL: FAILED!	07:05
@preaction	that means the wre's mysql isn't up or can't be reached	07:06
Samus_Aran	I would like to find out why it can't start it	07:07
@preaction	try doing "mysqld_safe"	07:07
Samus_Aran	I didn't change any of the MySQL settings other than the passwort	07:07
Samus_Aran	mysqld_safe from where ?	07:07
Samus_Aran	nevermind, it's in the path after the source environment thing	07:09
Samus_Aran	anyhow, I went back to the other screen, and it has error messages about setting up MySQL. looking over them now	07:09
Samus_Aran	ERROR: 1 Can't create/write to file '/data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql/db.MYI' (Errcode: 13)	07:10
Samus_Aran	080210 20:57:49 [ERROR] Aborting	07:10
Samus_Aran	not sure why it couldn't create it	07:10
Samus_Aran	I ran the script as root	07:10
@preaction	does mysqldata/mysql exist?	07:11
Samus_Aran	drwx------ 2 webgui root 4.0K 2008-02-10 20:57 /data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql/	07:11
Samus_Aran	odd permissions, root is the group, but it should ignore the "no write permission"	07:12
Samus_Aran	any suggestions ?	07:14
Samus_Aran	When I run mysqld_safe I get the following:	07:20
Samus_Aran	Starting mysqld daemon with databases from /data/wre/var/mysqldata	07:20
Samus_Aran	STOPPING server from pid file /data/wre/var/mysqldata/my_hostname.pid	07:20
Samus_Aran	080210 21:19:37 mysqld ended	07:20
Samus_Aran	and there are no MySQL processes running	07:20
Samus_Aran	I found an error log file with this in it: [ERROR] Can't start server : Bind on unix socket: Permission denied	07:21
@preaction	check in /var/mysqldata/*.err	07:21
Samus_Aran	[ERROR] Do you already have another mysqld server running on socket: /data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql.sock ?	07:22
Samus_Aran	that's from that error file you mentioned	07:22
Samus_Aran	there are no processes with "my" in it	07:22
Samus_Aran	in the command name, I mean	07:22
Samus_Aran	I didn't get an answer from you above about the structure of /data. is there supposed to be /data/wre or /data/wre/wre ? and should there be a /data/WebGUI directory as well ?	07:24
Samus_Aran	the documentation has errors in it regarding this	07:24
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@preaction_	it should be /data/wre and /data/WebGUI. no /data/wre/wre	07:28
Samus_Aran	is there some way to track down why it thinks that it has already started its MySQL server ?	07:30
Samus_Aran	looked through the running processes and see the previous spectre.pl still running. closed that now	07:32
Samus_Aran	made no difference	07:33
Samus_Aran	I just realised that /data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql.sock does not exist	07:35
Samus_Aran	it's not that something else is using it, it was just never created	07:35
* Samus_Aran sighs		07:37
Samus_Aran	starting over	07:39
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Samus_Aran	the web installer asks for a MySQL username and password. I changed the password, and then it doesn't work. it works with the default password	07:45
Samus_Aran	why does it give you the option to change the password if it is not going to be using it ?	07:46
@preaction_	the error that happened about starting the server probably caused the wreconsole to not update the password	07:46
@preaction_	it has to be able to start the mysqld in order to change the password	07:46
Samus_Aran	but the only change I made was this time not changing the password -- and then MySQL started fine	07:47
@preaction_	mysql doesn't need a password to start	07:47
@preaction_	who knows what happened, the point is you could change that password now if you wanted to	07:48
Samus_Aran	there is nowhere in the web interface that I see to change the password, only the setup	07:52
Samus_Aran	when I click on Spectre in the list of services tab, it says starting, and then goes back to a [Start] button	07:55
Samus_Aran	no errors	07:55
Samus_Aran	the other services started	07:55
Samus_Aran	sorry, there was an error, just couldn't see it, it was so small: "Spectre did not start successfully.	07:56
Samus_Aran	"	07:56
Samus_Aran	"to_json" is not exported by the JSON module	07:56
Samus_Aran	Can't continue after import errors at ../lib/Spectre/Cron.pm line 22	07:56
Samus_Aran	sigh. I can't add a site using the web interface. I don't know the MySQL password	07:59
Samus_Aran	I thought it was qwe123	07:59
Samus_Aran	123qwe ...	08:03
Samus_Aran	anyhow, the WRE's Spectre is broken	08:08
Samus_Aran	it has issues with its own Perl modules	08:08
Samus_Aran	assuming that the JSON thing is part of the WRE	08:08
Samus_Aran	when I try to connect to the new WebGUI site I get: Bad Gateway - The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.	08:09
+Radix-wrk	the mysql password is specified when you first installed the wre	08:13
Samus_Aran	I know, but it wouldn't let me change it, so I used the default, which I didn't remember	08:13
Samus_Aran	this is an absolute nightmare to set up compared to WebGUI 4.x	08:14
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+Radix-wrk	agreed - though admittedly it's changed hugely since version 4 too	08:14
Samus_Aran	all of the UI changes I have seen thus far I find to be far worse	08:14
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+Radix-wrk	that said.. I've had no problems installing a wre system out of the box within 10 minutes in the past	08:14
Samus_Aran	on the old versions it was clear to a new user where to go to get things done	08:15
Samus_Aran	now the menus are utterly confusing	08:15
Samus_Aran	something as simple as adding a content item to a page is confusing	08:15
+Radix-wrk	why?	08:15
+Radix-wrk	it's pretty easy.. click new content on the left, and select what object you want	08:15
Samus_Aran	the UI says it is adding a new page when you do that	08:16
+Radix-wrk	everything is a "page" in webgui	08:16
+Radix-wrk	every object has it's own url	08:17
preaction__	version 5 added the "asset" system, no?	08:17
preaction__	or was it 6.x series?	08:17
preaction__	there have been so many changes, Samus_Aran, you may as well treat it as an entirely different system	08:17
Samus_Aran	I'm talking about a section on a page. the things you drag around	08:17
preaction__	they are pages too	08:18
preaction__	they have urls	08:18
Samus_Aran	a column or section	08:18
preaction__	you can go to just them	08:18
Samus_Aran	well that is extremely messed up	08:18
preaction__	and that is an extremely obtuse opinion	08:18
+Radix-wrk	Actually I tend to agree there to a certain extent.. I wish pages were the only thing that had urls	08:18
+Radix-wrk	but that said, it's never really bothered me	08:19
Samus_Aran	it is entirely counter-intuitive	08:19
preaction__	only container assets?	08:19
+Radix-wrk	I just don't care what urls objects have, as long as my pages have the urls I want	08:19
preaction__	so message boards, page layouts, and wikis	08:19
+Radix-wrk	they're the only ones that appear in navigation items anyway	08:19
preaction__	but how do you get to a wiki page then?	08:19
preaction__	myWikiUrl?node=something?	08:19
preaction__	that's ugly	08:20
preaction__	how do you get to a forum post? myMessageBoard?collab=id;thread=id;post=id?	08:20
preaction__	that's better than myMessageBoard/collab/thread/post?	08:20
+Radix-wrk	I think of pages, forums, etc as containers	08:20
preaction__	what if i think of a thread as a container? do i lose out?	08:21
preaction__	is a calendar a container or can their event be containers too?	08:21
+Radix-wrk	well I find it all pretty confusing actually :)	08:21
preaction__	i agree it can be counter-intuitive, even backwards, but everything in the system has a URL, no matter what	08:22
preaction__	would you prefer a query string or something friendly?	08:22
preaction__	bonus: we don't use mod_rewrite to do it	08:22
Samus_Aran	I am considering going back to 4.x. It worked, was fast and did the things I needed it to do	08:23
preaction__	4.x even still works as a CGI, instead of mod_perl	08:24
+Radix-wrk	Samus_Aran: that's a shame - there's a lot to love in the new versions imho	08:24
+Radix-wrk	version control for one	08:25
+Radix-wrk	depends what you're after though I guess	08:25
Samus_Aran	version control is another example of how confusing WebGUI 7.xi s	08:30
Samus_Aran	*7.x is	08:30
Samus_Aran	I tried to use it and immediately the whole site was destroyed	08:30
Samus_Aran	didn't even have a template	08:30
preaction__	buy the content manager's guide perhaps?	08:30
Samus_Aran	I shouldn't have to purchase a book to use an open source product. WebGUI 4.x was easy to use with the help at the time	08:31
preaction__	Samus_Aran, then keep pushing on, eventually you'll understand it	08:31
Samus_Aran	and I would have to justify the book purchase and it would take at least a week	08:31
preaction__	you don't need to purchase the book, it just makes it easier	08:31
Samus_Aran	I don't have a week to sit on my hands	08:31
Samus_Aran	I would find a versioning system the same as a Wiki quite useful. WebGUI seems to use some other strange system	08:33
Samus_Aran	plus there is no description of how to use it from the actual page. I clicked on the first item in the list and it promptly destroyed the whole WebGUI install	08:34
preaction__	no, it didn't. unless you clicked a big red X	08:35
Samus_Aran	I believe it reverted to a pre-install state	08:35
Samus_Aran	I was trying to reset some changes I had done, to see how it worked	08:36
preaction__	and i don't believe you. any deleting of a version tag or any content pops up a javascript alert box saying "Are you sure?"	08:36
Samus_Aran	but it erased everything, including the template	08:36
Samus_Aran	the site wasjust white after that	08:36
Samus_Aran	*was jsut	08:36
Samus_Aran	*just	08:36
preaction__	so you had rollback version tag?	08:36
preaction__	the current one, the Autotag for Admin?	08:36
Samus_Aran	there was one item in a list, I clicked on rollback, assuming it would rollback to the base-install time	08:36
Samus_Aran	or whatever the feature is that I thought was a rollback	08:37
preaction__	what list? what item? under the Version Tags icon of the Admin Console?	08:37
Samus_Aran	I am not sure from my memory	08:37
Samus_Aran	I can't even load the WRE version of WebGUI	08:37
Samus_Aran	Bad Gateway	08:37
preaction__	the white page was probably the URL you were on disappearing, since you deleted the content	08:37
Samus_Aran	The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.	08:37
Samus_Aran	it still had a basic menu, but there was no longer any template	08:38
preaction__	means the proxied server isn't running. the proxy can't reach the server it's trying to reach	08:38
preaction__	so there was a menu on the left side with a list of a bunch of stuff, right?	08:38
preaction__	plus maybe a list in the larger area on the right perhaps?	08:38
Samus_Aran	I am talking about clicking on something about versioning on the left administrator menu, then on the right page that loads, choosing the only version listed, then telling it to use that one	08:39
Samus_Aran	and it proceeding (after the JS warning) to erase everything	08:39
Samus_Aran	what sort of performance can be expected from a WebGUI install that is actually working properly ?	08:40
Samus_Aran	on WebGUI 4.x on a crappy old computer running Debian where I was testing it, it ran extremely fast with 8-10 users	08:41
preaction__	we run 50-60 webgui sites on 2x2.4Ghz / 4G servers running CentOS 5	08:41
preaction__	we run servers with 30,000+ registered users on one of those boxes, dedicated	08:41
Samus_Aran	this was back in 2002 or 2001 I think. whenever 4.x was around	08:41
preaction__	load stays less than 0.5, response times for a 300kB page are around 10 seconds	08:42
+Radix-wrk	you seen demo.plainblack.com?	08:42
Samus_Aran	are you saying you dedicate a dual 2.4Ghz system to 1 site ? or 50-60 sites ?	08:42
Samus_Aran	yes, I have used the demo	08:42
+Radix-wrk	50-60 sites	08:42
preaction__	we've got one box with 80 sites, and that stays at about 2 load. we dont' monitor that one anymore (the owner was told of the consequences of having more than 70 sites)	08:42
preaction__	both. 1 site with 30,000+ registered users	08:43
preaction__	and 50-60 smaller sites	08:43
Samus_Aran	10 seconds response time for LAN access is ludicrous	08:43
preaction__	i'm talking internet	08:43
preaction__	i don't live in the datacenter	08:43
preaction__	i have DSL. 100kB/s when i'm not using it for other purposes	08:44
Samus_Aran	I mean, we will be updating and using the site on a LAN. 300KiB in 10 seconds is only 30KiB/sec, which I assume you have way more bandwidth than that	08:44
Samus_Aran	so the bottleneck is CPU	08:44
Samus_Aran	or disk access	08:44
preaction__	if there was a CPU bottleneck, the load would be far higher than .5	08:44
Samus_Aran	even our basic business DSL account gets use 60KiB/sec upstream	08:44
Samus_Aran	*gets us	08:44
preaction__	okay. we must be talking two different languages here	08:45
Samus_Aran	so why then does it take 10 seconds to load a page ?	08:45
preaction__	I... Me personally... do not live anywhere near the datacenter we use	08:45
Samus_Aran	do you have broadband ?	08:45
Samus_Aran	if so, it should make no difference	08:45
preaction__	I... Me personally... at my home... have a crappy DSL connection that is being 75% used by bittorrent at all time.	08:45
+Radix-wrk	our webgui server is a 3GHz P4 with 1GB ram - that runs a website with about 9300 users (who access it rarely) and over 5200 assets and it's on our lan and I usually get a page in a second or two at most.	08:46
preaction__	i will load the site i am talking about right now and report on the time it takes	08:46
+Radix-wrk	that's our website, intranet, extranet, users account server, all in one	08:46
Samus_Aran	I would like to find out why my manual install of WebGUI was going in slow motion on an otherwise unloaded server	08:47
Samus_Aran	if you're saying it should now be that way	08:47
Samus_Aran	but I would also like to know why spectre was using hundreds and hundreds of megs of RAM	08:47
preaction__	if you want support, plain black offers ad hoc login support at reasonable rates	08:47
Samus_Aran	and the apache threads were using almost 100MiB each	08:47
preaction__	i've explained the apache threads to you already: mod_perl, WebGUI, mod_php, etc... all take up memory	08:48
preaction__	the reason we use Apache2::SizeLimit is because mod_perl doesn't seem to like cleaning up after itself. apache also, because it kills its own children after so many connections / so much time	08:48
preaction__	Apache2::SizeLimit is just more efficient and more configurable about how the processes die	08:49
Samus_Aran	what is an empty WebGUI site doing that requires more than half a gig of RAM ?	08:49
Samus_Aran	my fresh install was using around 650MiB RAM in total	08:50
preaction__	it's not half a gig. WebGUI before it forks (mpm_prefork) takes about 70M (that's apache process + perl code + memory cache)	08:50
preaction__	70M per process	08:50
preaction__	* 5 processes (apache's default StartServers)	08:50
Samus_Aran	and 350MiB for spectre	08:50
preaction__	350M	08:50
preaction__	spectre grows slowly, usually due to errors talking to WebGUI	08:51
Samus_Aran	it had only been running, idle, for 2.5 days	08:51
Samus_Aran	I worked on it on Thursday	08:52
Samus_Aran	and then again now on Sunday	08:52
Samus_Aran	if it keeps growing, how does a hosted WebGUI server manage to not constantly run out of RAM ?	08:52
Samus_Aran	cronjobs to kill and restart the service constantly ?	08:53
+Radix-wrk	spectre is using 20mb on my server and 58-68mb for each apache process	08:53
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+Radix-wrk	load average is 0.05 for me	08:53
Samus_Aran	Radix-wrk: how long has spectre been running ?	08:53
+Radix-wrk	up 34 days	08:54
preaction__	if there are problems connecting to WebGUI, it slowly grows.	08:54
+Radix-wrk	that's with a stock wre install that I compiled myself	08:55
preaction__	we restart it on the demo box because when demo sites are removed, it needs to be restarted	08:55
+Radix-wrk	that's running on a via C7 1Ghz processor with 1GB ram - and is my home router/gateway/pc	08:56
preaction__	it's been more than 3 hours of you complaining about WebGUI. if you want real support, Plain Black offers it. if you follow the advice i've given you, others have given you, and the instructions, you can fix your problems.	08:56
Samus_Aran	this is my WRE, by default without any modifications: 37080+504+34544+57988+57672+57668+57668+57668+57668+2248+2432+2328+2328+2328+2332+2264	08:56
Samus_Aran	and no spectre, as it won't load	08:57
Samus_Aran	434720 KiB	08:57
Samus_Aran	RSS column of PS, grepping for things from /data/	08:57
Samus_Aran	preaction__: you stopped answering my questions about an hour ago	08:58
Samus_Aran	preaction__: I don't think you owe anything to me, but don't say that I wasn't following	08:58
Samus_Aran	I was trying my very best to try everything you said I should try	08:58
Samus_Aran	and your help is very much appreciated	08:58
Samus_Aran	Spectre will not load for me with a stock WRE	08:59
Samus_Aran	it complains about JSON	08:59
Samus_Aran	and I can't connect to the WebGUI site I added, with the above proxy error	08:59
+Radix-wrk	there's some stuff in gotchas.txt about JSON I seem to recall	09:00
* Samus_Aran goes to look		09:00
preaction__	the 0.8.1 WRE needs updated JSON and Config::JSON. this will be fixed in WRE 0.8.2	09:00
+Radix-wrk	stable version of webgui doesn't like newest version of JSON - and new 7.5.1 version fixes it or something	09:00
preaction__	no. latest stable (7.4.22) and latest beta (7.5.1) both need JSON 2.04 and Config::JSON 1.1.4	09:01
Samus_Aran	"to_json" is not exported by the JSON module	09:01
Samus_Aran	Can't continue after import errors at ../lib/Spectre/Cron.pm line 22	09:01
Samus_Aran	is the error	09:01
+Radix-wrk	run testEnvironment.pl	09:01
preaction__	won't work. you need to force install Config::JSON	09:02
Samus_Aran	Config::JSON is up to date (1.1.4).	09:02
Samus_Aran	when I did the manual install, testEnvironment.pl found every module it checked, other than one which it would always say it didn't find, even though it was installed	09:03
Samus_Aran	though I thought the WRE contained the complete Perl environment ?	09:03
preaction__	spectre is being run under the WRE? you're running testEnvironment.pl under the WRE's environment? what does echo $PATH say?	09:03
Samus_Aran	I haven't run testEnvironment.pl from the WRE	09:03
preaction__	did you run cpan from the WRE's environment?	09:04
Samus_Aran	you mean the all-in-one WRE is distributed broken ?	09:04
Samus_Aran	that rather defeats the purpose of an all-in-one download with all the servers	09:05
+Radix-wrk	it just needs a few updated perl modules for the newer versions that've come out since it was released	09:05
Samus_Aran	I am updating the modules using the testEnvironment.pl script. hopefully that will place the modules in the correct perl	09:07
preaction__	it only will if you tell it to	09:08
Samus_Aran	what do you mean ?	09:08
preaction__	it will put the modules in the correct place for the perl that is running	09:08
Samus_Aran	the perl that is running is whatever perl the testEnvironment.pl script launched	09:09
+Radix-wrk	you need to use ". /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment"	09:09
Samus_Aran	with the setenvironment.sh run first	09:09
Samus_Aran	yes	09:09
Samus_Aran	*sourced, not run	09:09
+Radix-wrk	as long as 'which perl' comes up with the one in the /data/wre directory you're fine	09:10
Samus_Aran	it has already installed at least a dozen Perl modules	09:13
Samus_Aran	prereq's for the JSON update	09:13
Samus_Aran	hm, a lot more than a dozen. maybe 40. it's just whipping through them	09:15
Samus_Aran	Checking for module Config::JSON: 1.1.1 is installed, but we need at least 1.1.2, do you want to upgrade it now? {y\|n} [y]	09:20
Samus_Aran	Going to read /root/.cpan-webgui/Metadata	09:21
Samus_Aran	Config::JSON is up to date.	09:21
Samus_Aran	so if cpan doesn't have it, how do I get 1.1.2 as needed ?	09:21
preaction__	you want 1.1.4. cpan does have it. you need to force install it	09:22
+Radix-wrk	I think it might be a bug in 1.1.1 - it reports itself as 1.1.4 or something	09:24
Samus_Aran	okay, done	09:24
Samus_Aran	only one not OK now is:	09:25
Samus_Aran	Checking for module Graphics::Magick: Not Installed, but it's optional anyway	09:25
Samus_Aran	I would like that to be installed, but it doesn't seem to have a cpan listing. I installed it through Ubuntu	09:25
preaction__	you want image::magic, not graphics::magick	09:25
Samus_Aran	I think it requires a full ImageMagick to be installed	09:26
Samus_Aran	image::magic or magick ?	09:26
preaction__	magick	09:26
Samus_Aran	Image::Magick is up to date.	09:26
preaction__	so you're fine	09:26
Samus_Aran	when I did the manual install, I got Graphics::Magick installed, so that the testEnvironment.pl script gave it an OK	09:27
Samus_Aran	are you saying the script is checking for something that is not used ?	09:27
preaction__	that's the "but it's optional anyway" part	09:27
+Radix-wrk	Graphics::Magick was added for FreeBSD I seem to recall.. which had problems with imagemagick	09:27
Samus_Aran	I would like all features to be available, is what I mean	09:28
preaction__	yah, but apeiron got IM compiling under WRE for FreeBSD so we don't need GM anymore	09:28
Samus_Aran	e.g. Aspell is also optional, but I installed it	09:28
+Radix-wrk	you won't need it	09:28
Samus_Aran	okay, thank you	09:28
preaction__	it uses one or the other, not both. if you have IM, it uses that. otherwise it tries to use GM. if it doesn't find either, it dies	09:28
Samus_Aran	okay, everything seems to be working now. Spectre started successfully	09:29
Samus_Aran	I still get the other error when trying to access the domain, though:	09:29
Samus_Aran	Bad Gateway	09:29
Samus_Aran	The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.	09:29
preaction__	as i said before: it means that the proxy server can't connect to the server it's supposed to be proxy for	09:30
Samus_Aran	isn't the server it is supposed to connect to the apache running in the WRE ?	09:30
preaction__	is the modperl server running?	09:31
Samus_Aran	which is running on the default ports during the install	09:31
Samus_Aran	everything is running now	09:31
preaction__	did you add any sites?	09:31
Samus_Aran	MySQL, Apache Modperl, Apache Modproxy, Spectre, WRE Console	09:31
Samus_Aran	I added one site	09:31
preaction__	and that hostname is resolvable? can you connect to the modperl server directly using its port?	09:32
Samus_Aran	I am stopping all the servers now, and restarting them	09:33
Samus_Aran	yes, DNS is fine	09:33
+Radix-wrk	try going to www.site.com:81	09:34
preaction__	WRE 0.8 uses 8081 now	09:34
+Radix-wrk	or whatever port you set modperl to be on	09:34
+Radix-wrk	okay.. 8081 then	09:34
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Samus_Aran	'objToJson' will be obsoleted. Please use 'to_json' instead. at /data/wre/sbin/wreconsole.pl line 312	09:36
Samus_Aran	Can't locate object method "autoconv" via package "JSON" at /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/JSON.pm line 122.	09:36
Samus_Aran	is that error important ?	09:37
Samus_Aran	not the deprecation part, but the autoconv	09:37
preaction__	depends, what are you doing?	09:37
preaction__	are you running 7.5.1 or 7.4.22?	09:37
Samus_Aran	that was from the wreconsole.pl	09:37
Samus_Aran	it died	09:37
Samus_Aran	it dies when I go to the Settings tab of the web setup interface	09:38
preaction__	yeah, it's going to do that until 0.8.2 is released	09:38
Samus_Aran	okay	09:38
Samus_Aran	I also don't like that it added a ServerAlias automatically. I just realised that the regular web site would not be offline, it would be mapping to this beta sub-domain	09:40
Samus_Aran	which seems quite wrong	09:40
Samus_Aran	joe.mysite.com should not automatically show up at mysite.com	09:41
preaction__	submit an RFE	09:41
Samus_Aran	that defeats the whole purpose of sub-domains	09:41
Samus_Aran	perhaps if the subdomain is "www" then it would be an alright default	09:41
Samus_Aran	though a redirect is the proper way to handle that, not a ServerAlias	09:41
Samus_Aran	ServerAlias's should pretty much not ever be used	09:42
Samus_Aran	otherwise Google and such will end up with two copies of the site	09:42
Samus_Aran	preaction__: to your question, I am on 7.4.22	09:44
Samus_Aran	er, I think I am. I was when I manually installed it	09:44
Samus_Aran	now I'm on whatever the WRE installed	09:45
Samus_Aran	I didn't see it mentioned	09:45
Samus_Aran	is the mod proxy on 8081 allow access from anywhere, or just LAN ?	09:45
Samus_Aran	and would I use the foo-server name or the domain name ?	09:46
Samus_Aran	I am working remotely. I did an SSH tunnel to access the foo-server:60834 at work	09:47
Samus_Aran	would I need a similar tunnel for 8081, or should going to the domain name (which has proper DNS to the computer in question) be enough ?	09:47
preaction__	it's meant to allow access from the box itself, localhost. not sure what your firewall allows	09:52
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Samus_Aran	I mean should I be able to access it using foobar.com:8081 ?	09:59
Samus_Aran	I can not currently	09:59
Samus_Aran	and yes, foobar.com's DNS does point to the appropriate IP and it is forwarded to the server in question	10:00
Samus_Aran	or is it	10:00
* Samus_Aran goes to check the catch-all		10:00
Samus_Aran	okay, forwarded a port manually and now I get to a login when going to the 8081 prot	10:08
Samus_Aran	*port	10:08
Samus_Aran	how can I fix the proxy so that I get to the site setup thing not on port 8081 ?	10:09
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SDuensin	Greetings.	15:52
ckotil	good morning	15:52
SDuensin	Howdy.	15:53
nuba	morning	15:58
AMH_bob	mornin'	16:13
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BartJol	morning everyone	16:51
perlmonkey2	preaction: Wanted to thank you for all your help yesterday.	17:15
@preaction	morning	17:19
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perlmonkey2	what would you think is wrong with the wre if netstat -ap returned about 15 pages of this: http://pastebin.com/d52d7b70c	17:37
nuba	google docs now has forms to help the everyman collect data into spreadsheets http://www.google.com/google-d-s/whatsnew.html	17:40
nuba	in a certain way, it sounds like a Thingy (Lite Edition)	17:41
nuba	things would become more interesting the moment they start allowing people to link data from one spreadsheet to another	17:43
perlmonkey2	hah, I was just wondering if they had an api for it :P	17:43
nuba	there you go http://code.google.com/apis/spreadsheets/overview.html	17:45
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perlmonkey2	Ah, should there be a webgui user in the mysql.user table for the wre install?	18:19
perlmonkey2	I have 4 users, root, test, backup and ''	18:19
perlmonkey2	oh....no it is a random string...I'm guessing tha tis the webgui user.	18:20
perlmonkey2	nm :)	18:20
@preaction	each site has its own db user, which the wre system creates with that random string	18:22
perlmonkey2	Do these start up wre log errors look fatal or abnormal? http://pastebin.com/d36421f85	18:25
BartJol	you can find it in your config	18:25
BartJol	sorry, i should mind my own business	18:25
perlmonkey2	BartJol: ??? why? I appreciate anyone's help	18:26
BartJol	yeah, but i'm only confusing you right now	18:26
perlmonkey2	No, I know what you mean.	18:26
BartJol	by using the wre, you create a config, so you can't look it up	18:26
perlmonkey2	It's in the Webgui/etc/.conf :)	18:27
BartJol	yeah that one :)	18:27
BartJol	but dies anyone here now a thing or two about scratch variables?	18:27
perlmonkey2	I'm on like hour 10 of trying to figure out why when webgui starts it creates 400 or so localhost tproxy connections, and would try to make more, but for os limits.	18:28
BartJol	does not dies	18:28
perlmonkey2	BartJol: I dream of the day when I can quit my job and learn all about webgui.	18:28
BartJol	well, I'm allowed to spend a couple of hours a week programming	18:29
BartJol	for my amusement and learning curve	18:29
BartJol	but about the connections, I'm afraid I don't know	18:30
perlmonkey2	completely driving me insane...the error logs are worthless.	18:30
perlmonkey2	Is this a bad thing to see in the wre error logs: Compilation failed in require at /data/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl line 72.	18:36
BartJol	well	18:37
BartJol	not really	18:37
perlmonkey2	I just don't get it......everything was working fine. Nothing changed, but all of a sudden it wasn't.	18:37
BartJol	mostly a script that is handled by perl and has some strange mistakes in them can give that	18:38
perlmonkey2	the wre doesn't auto-update does it?	18:38
BartJol	nop[e	18:38
BartJol	you did do " .setenvironment.pl"	18:38
BartJol	i suppose	18:39
perlmonkey2	yes	18:39
perlmonkey2	every time I'm starting something I do that.	18:39
BartJol	can't do that often enough it seems	18:39
perlmonkey2	heh, my path is like 400 lines long now I'v ran it so much.	18:40
BartJol	but does the log also refer to another script?	18:41
perlmonkey2	?	18:41
BartJol	or does your modperl log say something about it	18:41
perlmonkey2	that is the error log for mod_perl	18:41
perlmonkey2	just I'll relook	18:41
BartJol	ah, darn	18:41
@preaction	you might want to try running preload.perl by itself quick	18:41
perlmonkey2	BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm line 21.	18:42
perlmonkey2	Compilation failed in require at /data/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl line 72.	18:42
perlmonkey2	is the full line.	18:42
perlmonkey2	okay preaction I"ll try that.	18:42
@preaction	ha	18:42
@preaction	Image::ExifTool <- you're missing that i think	18:42
@preaction	when you see BEGIN failed -- compilation aborted, try doing a: cd /data/WebGUI/lib; perl -c WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm	18:43
@preaction	that'll show you the real error	18:43
perlmonkey2	I'm missing a lot of files	18:44
perlmonkey2	I get a lot of those.	18:44
perlmonkey2	Can't locate Image/ExifTool.pm	18:44
@preaction	which means you're missing that perl module	18:44
perlmonkey2	Actually , if no one complains about the spam:	18:45
perlmonkey2	Can't locate Image/ExifTool.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/5.8.8/i686-linux /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/5.8.8 /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/i686-linux /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8 /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl .) at WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm line 21.	18:45
perlmonkey2	BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm line 21.	18:45
perlmonkey2	preaction: But how could I be missing it, if I'm using the wre?	18:45
@preaction	it's a new requirement	18:45
@preaction	after 0.8.1 was released	18:45
perlmonkey2	I'm just not sure how I got a version of webgui tha tneeds something the wre didn't supply. and why it worked for a long time then stopped working.	18:46
perlmonkey2	Should I update the wre?	18:46
@preaction	there is no 0.8.2	18:46
perlmonkey2	wreupgrade.pl	18:46
perlmonkey2	oh.	18:46
perlmonkey2	ah.	18:46
perlmonkey2	so the wre is broken?	18:47
perlmonkey2	and somehow I got an update of webgui that needs something that the wre doesn't have?	18:47
@preaction	no. it's just missing some new developments in WebGUI	18:47
perlmonkey2	oh...so this isn't the fatal issue I'm having?	18:47
@preaction	this is the fatal issue you're having. even the WRE's installation instructions suggest running testEnvironment.pl	18:48
* perlmonkey2 has soooo much to learn about WebGUI.		18:48
* perlmonkey2 has money if you have a WG dev guide beta book :D		18:50
@preaction	dev guide doesn't cover this stuff. this is admin guide stuff	18:50
@preaction	dev guide covers coding and API	18:51
perlmonkey2	yeah, something I would have instantly caught if I wasn't useing the WRE.	18:51
perlmonkey2	I just assumed that there could not be any perl lib issues with the WRE.	18:51
@preaction	you could probably post a bug as a reminder to JT to include that module in the WRE 0.8.2 when he's ready	18:51
perlmonkey2	there are like 5	18:51
perlmonkey2	modules that failed	18:52
@preaction	Archive::Any, Image::ExifTool, are the two i know of	18:52
perlmonkey2	oh	18:52
perlmonkey2	those are the two I have	18:52
@preaction	those are the two i added for the Gallery	18:53
perlmonkey2	with broken cpan requirements trees	18:53
perlmonkey2	thanks :D	18:53
@preaction	the updated JSON and Config::JSON, but i think there's already a bug out there about those	18:53
perlmonkey2	yeah, that seems fixed.	18:53
perlmonkey2	I just don't get how it worked on my system, then stopped working without an upgrade or anything.	18:53
* perlmonkey2 just realized he's updating perl in /usr/lib instead of /dat		18:54
nuba	happens	18:55
nuba	sometimes	18:55
perlmonkey2	oh, no I'm not....setEnv , duh	18:55
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+perlDreamer	whoa!	18:56
+perlDreamer	It's xdanger	18:56
+perlDreamer	he's back	18:56
+perlDreamer	(at least in bot form)	18:56
perlmonkey2	preaction: that didn't fix things, but it made the error logs a lot cleaner: http://pastebin.com/d12e825f9	18:57
@preaction	if your server reached MaxClients, with no users, you have a problem. modperl's httpd.conf is at /data/wre/etc/modperl.conf	18:58
perlmonkey2	that error log is associated with about 400 tproxy localhost connections creating and dieing as fast as the OS can do it.	18:58
nuba	sounds like fun.. not.	18:59
perlmonkey2	hah......more than mere words can express :)	18:59
nuba	perlmonkey2: you can add something like this to setenv: export PS1="now im setenv'ed - $PS1"	19:01
perlmonkey2	nuba: I know I have the env correct. But I manually ran preload.perl and got this: Starting WebGUI 7.5.0	19:02
perlmonkey2	Can't locate object method "server" via package "Apache2::ServerUtil" at preload.perl line 80.	19:02
perlmonkey2	is that just because I'm running it manually?	19:02
+perlDreamer	yeah	19:02
perlmonkey2	the modperl.conf looks completely normal. I just wish there was some sort of error output for what is going on.	19:03
nuba	i suppose you have enabled more verbose logging for apache?	19:03
perlmonkey2	nope...thanks I'll look up how to do that :)	19:04
nuba	if not thats a way to troubleshooting	19:04
nuba	run a single apache instance as well	19:04
nuba	enable mod_status	19:04
nuba	let me see..	19:04
BartJol	hi perldreamer	19:06
nuba	i have modperl.error.log and modproxy.error.log on /data/wre/prereqs/apache/logs	19:06
+perlDreamer	Yo, BartJol	19:06
BartJol	my macro works	19:06
+perlDreamer	Awesome!	19:06
nuba	thats 0.7 wWRE	19:06
BartJol	now I have to extend it, because it works on every reload i believe	19:06
+perlDreamer	huh?	19:06
BartJol	that's a bit to much, so, i will incoporate a scratch variable	19:06
perlmonkey2	nuba: that tree doens't exist in 8.1. I'll see if I can find where apache is now.	19:06
BartJol	you mean it is cached?	19:07
nuba	you can try "find /data/wre -name modperl.error.log"	19:07
+perlDreamer	If you have admin mode turned on, caching is disabled.	19:08
+perlDreamer	But then it would transfer karma on every page load	19:08
+perlDreamer	so a scratch variables could be good.	19:08
BartJol	yeah, and if the session is longer than the cache time out, it also runs too often	19:08
BartJol	and 1 more thing, it should not work when the current user is also the owner of an object	19:09
perlmonkey2	nuba: I ran from wre/ find . -depth\|grep .log$ and no appache.error.log showed up. Only var/logs with modproxy and modperl	19:09
+perlDreamer	that's pretty easy to detect	19:09
BartJol	I know	19:10
BartJol	something like WebGUI::Session->getUserId	19:10
+perlDreamer	$session->user->userId	19:10
BartJol	and a new session object, I'm not using that currently	19:12
BartJol	I'm stupid	19:12
BartJol	first shift	19:12
BartJol	always	19:12
+perlDreamer	every macro gets a session sent to it automatically	19:12
BartJol	I realise that now	19:13
BartJol	the last one is already implemented	19:16
BartJol	scratch variable not yet, but first I'm gonna have dinner\	19:16
BartJol	maybe tonight if I really don't feel like preparing a presentation on the commerce system	19:18
+perlDreamer	The commerce system is going to change	19:18
BartJol	yeah, that's what the presentation is about	19:19
BartJol	the 44 page pdf is already in my bag	19:19
BartJol	but I'll be back to annoy you soon :)	19:21
* perlmonkey2 installed all the perl reqs in cent 5.1, I'll see if I can do it in cent 5.0		19:21
@preaction	BartJol, you're doing the presentation on the new commerce? nice	19:21
BartJol	you at Arjan's place	19:21
BartJol	united knowledge	19:21
BartJol	not at the wuc	19:22
BartJol	if I come it will be on the use of macro's	19:22
@preaction	oh	19:22
@preaction	:p	19:22
BartJol	maybe I can do 2	19:22
BartJol	will it be ready?	19:23
BartJol	:)	19:23
BartJol	otherwise it is a bit of a roadmap talk	19:23
@preaction	i think that's why rizen is offline presently, besides the convention he was just at	19:24
+perlDreamer	Well, I think the new commerce idea of basing all currency on the rupee is wrong.	19:24
@preaction	WDK and Commerce are his two goals for the next couple months	19:24
+perlDreamer	It's pretty stable wrt the dollar and the Euro, but still.	19:24
@preaction	Rupees are the new currency! they're good enough for Link	19:24
BartJol	well, I'll think about it, first have a look whether I can come at all	19:29
BartJol	bye	19:29
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@apeiron	Dangit, I'm doing one on commerce. I refuse to give up my talk on one of the Next Big Things in WebGUI.	19:32
@apeiron	I didn't want to give up a talk on the nonexistent API of Thingy, do you think I'm going to give up one on Commerce?	19:32
@preaction	uhm... no?	19:32
@preaction	i wonder which ones i'm going to have to give up	19:33
@preaction	i don't want to give up any either	19:33
@preaction	there's no Thingy API? there's no way to plug-in different kinds of handlers or something?	19:33
@apeiron	JT said to me in email "There's no pluggable API for thingy".	19:35
@apeiron	This was after I said I didn't want to give up that talk. :)	19:35
@preaction	damn...	19:35
@preaction	who knows, maybe it won't need one	19:36
@preaction	but technically there's no pluggable API for the Gallery currently. you have to edit the Gallery itself to plug-in a new File type	19:36
@preaction	i suppose i should start pondering that eventually	19:36
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template	20:09
+perlDreamer	"there is no spoon"	20:09
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template	20:10
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template	20:10
+perlDreamer	CIA-21: you've got the squirts	20:10
* perlmonkey2 really wishes WG didn't use Apache::Request2		20:16
+perlDreamer	what should it use instead?	20:16
perlmonkey2	something that most linux distros support out of the box instead of requiring a PhD in operating systems to install.	20:17
@preaction	Apache2::Request is part of mod_perl and libapr	20:17
+perlDreamer	yeah, yum it	20:17
+perlDreamer	I haven't needed to compile anything for Fedora for a very long time	20:17
@preaction	or apt-get, or emerge, whatever your distro does	20:17
+perlDreamer	well, until the wre	20:18
+perlDreamer	but the WRE comes with everything except for some of the modules	20:18
+perlDreamer	perl-libapreq2	20:19
+perlDreamer	that's from FC6, and it should be the same on RHEL 5/CentOs/SciLinux	20:20
perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: this is cent	20:20
+perlDreamer	4 or 5?	20:20
perlmonkey2	5	20:21
perlmonkey2	I have apr, apr-devel, mod_perl, mod_perl-devel, apache, apache-devel	20:21
perlmonkey2	it makes, but failes on make test.	20:21
perlmonkey2	I'm just an idiot....test suites were failing because I was root.	20:24
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template	20:27
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2: Here's someone else's experience with libapreq2 and CentOs 5	20:29
+perlDreamer	https://webwork.maa.org/moodle/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=5717	20:29
perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: You see what I said above? I was running the test suites as root.	20:30
perlmonkey2	which is a big nono	20:31
perlmonkey2	my own fault	20:31
perlmonkey2	but all the libs are built now. So I can move my wre install to a source install and see if the network issues continue.	20:31
perlmonkey2	what is funny is the way I'm having to do the mp3 rss feed for the client, it would have worked the same if we had used PB hosting and a 5/month hoster for disk, and about $10/month cheaper.	20:32
@preaction	pb does offer disk space upgrades. they should be in the store	20:38
perlmonkey2	They found some hoster that gave 100GB for $7.99/month or some such.	20:39
perlmonkey2	and most of the VPS's they wanted gave 15GB to 20GB for $30-$40/month.	20:39
perlmonkey2	I really wish I could offload this project onto PlainBlack :D	20:40
nuba	perlmonkey2: i just tried some cheapass hosting which gave me 120GB/8.99/mo	20:41
nuba	where i was dumping my backups	20:41
nuba	next thing is they block the account a couple of weeks afterwards, saying that it goes against their TOS	20:42
perlmonkey2	nuba: My plan was an XML::RSS daemon on the cheapass server up the mp3/video to the WG server.	20:42
perlmonkey2	nuba: yeah, what I was figuring.	20:42
perlmonkey2	no one gives that much disk away	20:42
nuba	i somehow talked my way out of that and told them I planned to serve these "machine snapshots" to my friends	20:42
nuba	in a website	20:42
perlmonkey2	sucker you in with lies and then it is too painful to leave.	20:42
nuba	as of yet, its still on, that was a couple of months ago	20:43
nuba	I told them I was just the sysadmin, and the user was another guy, and that I would forward the warning but "please send me the part of your TOS with the wording that says I cant do that"	20:44
nuba	i never heard back from them with the wording	20:44
nuba	checked the TOS myself, found nothing	20:44
nuba	so all ok until now, of course they can just change the TOS and ruin the party if they want to	20:44
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template	20:54
perlmonkey2	hah, I think I know what is going on.	20:55
perlmonkey2	this is classic	20:55
perlmonkey2	the rss feed on the front page is grabbing an rss producing collab object on another page. That collab object is now gone.	20:55
nuba	gremlins?	20:55
perlmonkey2	but the rss feed is hammering the server trying to get that feed	20:56
perlmonkey2	that just makes me sad	20:56
nuba	isnt that a bug?	20:56
perlmonkey2	a huge one	20:56
perlmonkey2	that has wasted maybe 24 solid hours of my time I didn't have to waste.	20:57
nuba	hammering the server until it gets the feed it wants	20:57
perlmonkey2	I'm not 100% sure that is the problme	20:57
perlmonkey2	but once I commit the removal of the rss feed, I'll know for sure.	20:57
perlmonkey2	if I can get to the commit page.	20:57
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2: iirc, Spectre does the RSS prefetch	20:58
+perlDreamer	so disabling that workflow may immediatly reduce your load	20:59
perlmonkey2	spectre isn't running ....	20:59
perlmonkey2	I'll try to commit the changes which remove the rss feed and then disable that workflow	20:59
perlmonkey2	do workflows do anything when spectre isn't running?	21:01
+perlDreamer	they shouldn't	21:01
perlmonkey2	would it be the EMS Precache?	21:01
@preaction	do you have a Syndicated Content wobject? if there is no RSS prefetch, then the SC asset tries to do i t	21:02
@preaction	workflows can run without spectre. spectre just tips them off. WebGUI does the real work	21:02
perlmonkey2	yes	21:02
+perlDreamer	it's the GetSyndicatedContent Workflow activity that prefetches RSS	21:03
perlmonkey2	that has to be what is happening.	21:03
perlmonkey2	and the wobject shows locked and all versions committed.	21:03
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template	21:03
@preaction	wtf is CIA on a loop or something?	21:04
@apeiron	I think it's subtly trying to tell us how important that commit is.	21:04
@preaction	it's not being very subtle about it	21:05
nuba	well at least its not flooding the channel	21:05
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@apeiron	preaction, http://code.google.com/p/cia-vc/issues/detail?id=2	21:07
@apeiron	Seems other people are seeing this too.	21:07
perlmonkey2	the explosion only happens when I go to the I have a SC that is locked on the front page. I'm 99% sure it is the problem. How do I unlock it? Spectre is running.	21:07
@preaction	perlmonkey2, you have to wait for spectre to process the commit	21:08
@preaction	cia.vc seems to be only partially reachable at the moment. so i don't know if i can even remove the bot	21:09
nuba	most repeated revisions by CIA bots, from my partial irclogs:	21:09
nuba	hq% grep -E '< CIA.* \* r.' \#webgui.200 \| awk '{print $7, $5}' \| uniq -c \| sort -rn \| head 6 r5413 graham 6 r5207 jt 3 r5255 doug 3 r5209 jt 2 r5391 doug 2 r5292 jt	21:09
nuba	oops some linebreaks are missing there	21:10
nuba	6 r5413 graham	21:10
nuba	6 r5207 jt	21:10
* apeiron would rather the paste be on one line than flood the channel. :)		21:10
nuba	heh true	21:10
perlmonkey2	wow	21:11
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perlmonkey2	so the SC was the problem	21:11
perlmonkey2	don't ever have an SC pointing at a bad uri....or at least one you own, cause it will DOS yoru machine.	21:11
nuba	rank of revisions where CIA bots got stuck, NOW ON PASTEBIN! http://webgui.pastebin.com/m26f05bef	21:12
nuba	graham's r5413 is in a tie with JT's r5207 in the first place	21:14
nuba	im rooting for graham, hes such a bug fixing whiz!	21:15
nuba	go graham go	21:15
nuba	>cause it will DOS yoru machine.	21:16
nuba	dont forget aobut DOSing someone else's machine	21:16
perlmonkey2	nuba: well that would have been btter...they could have blocked the requests and let me know I was DOS'ing them.	21:19
perlmonkey2	instead the machine just died.	21:19
perlmonkey2	wow, that bug just cost me a lot of money	21:21
perlmonkey2	suck	21:21
BartJol	does a scratch variable just have 1 value, that can be altered?	21:22
BartJol	oh and hi guys	21:22
BartJol	or can it contain more values?	21:22
+perlDreamer	you'd have to manually serialize it yourself, BartJol	21:22
BartJol	serialize?	21:23
+perlDreamer	transform from multiple values into 1 value (like a string)	21:23
BartJol	ah	21:23
BartJol	because I just want to store the visted url's in a session	21:24
BartJol	so I have to make a variable each time an url is visited?	21:24
+perlDreamer	Something has to keep track of where the user has been and how long ago	21:25
+perlDreamer	Kind of sounds like the passive profiling system	21:25
BartJol	well, the time is not very interesting to me	21:25
+perlDreamer	is it one time ever?	21:25
+perlDreamer	only once?	21:25
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BartJol	yes, well at least, one per session	21:26
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BartJol	one for always is also possible, but then I have to store it somewhere	21:26
BartJol	in the db	21:26
BartJol	that would be a disc consuming business	21:27
@preaction	session->scratch is cleaned up when the session is cleaned up	21:27
BartJol	I know, but that is no really objection to me	21:27
* perlDreamer lunches		21:27
nuba	BartJol: you need to keep track of it in the cookie?	21:28
BartJol	no, in a session	21:28
nuba	BartJol: would storing a row with (date, userid, pageurl) in a DB work for you?	21:28
BartJol	well, only when it's done when my macro is axecuted, not on page loading	21:29
nuba	you could regularly expire old records	21:29
nuba	and its simple to do that with a macro	21:29
BartJol	can it be done within the api?	21:30
BartJol	I rather not do it by writuing directly into the db	21:30
BartJol	then I may have to reprogram it for a new version	21:31
BartJol	you know what my macro is doing?	21:32
nuba	well I wold create another DB instead of using WebGUI's	21:32
nuba	and there, create a table	21:32
nuba	then theres this, i dont know what you want to do with this data	21:32
BartJol	well	21:32
nuba	if you use your DB, your table, your SQL queries wont change	21:33
BartJol	it's an AddKarma macro, to be executed within a template	21:33
nuba	unless you change your DB schema	21:33
BartJol	I'll keep it in mind	21:33
BartJol	thanks	21:33
nuba	so you wont have to change it every time WebGUI is released	21:33
nuba	with a change in the DB	21:33
BartJol	but it should give karma to the owner of an asset when it's visted	21:34
BartJol	and I want to implement, that it is possible only once per session	21:35
BartJol	for one asset	21:35
nuba	so you want the macro to know what asset it is being called from?	21:35
BartJol	so I'd like to store the url, so it can check whether the asset is already visited	21:35
BartJol	yes, but that part is already working	21:36
BartJol	the url (or in the future you can also choose the Id) is given with the macro by a tmpl_var	21:37
nuba	sounds interesting. would be great if there was a "run on session expire" feature in webgui.	21:37
nuba	like event handlers	21:38
BartJol	but maybe I should also build a choice that it is only possible once per asset revision or asset	21:38
BartJol	but a db creation is quite usefull, especially for the last option	21:40
BartJol	will be difficult to check revisions	21:40
BartJol	and i also have to keep the user visitor in mind	21:42
nuba	you can store the session hash as well	21:42
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nuba	instead of the user. or both.	21:43
nuba	if tracking users is of relevance	21:43
wgGuest88	hello	21:43
BartJol	hi	21:43
BartJol	well that was why i limiting it to sessions	21:44
nuba	BartJol: gimme a sec.	21:44
BartJol	sure	21:44
BartJol	what's up wgGuest 88?	21:44
wgGuest88	i have a question related to the sql forms, when i go to a sql form, it shows the search template as default	21:45
BartJol	yes	21:45
wgGuest88	can i change it to show to the template that have the fields to add a new record?	21:46
BartJol	I suppose so	21:47
wgGuest88	how can i change it?	21:47
wgGuest88	do you know?	21:47
BartJol	oh, there is only one opption, but you did create a new template?	21:48
BartJol	or do you mean the template that is shown while creating the form?	21:49
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wgGuest81	hello	21:49
wgGuest81	bartJol, now i am wgGuest81	21:50
BartJol	i suspected already	21:50
BartJol	did you get the last remark?	21:50
wgGuest81	i need to put the template that shows the form as a default when someone go to the sql form	21:50
BartJol	mmm, I should make an sql form myself, to test it	21:51
wgGuest81	ok	21:51
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nuba	BartJol: i added this line to my site's modproxy apache config file: CustomLog /tmp/BartJol.log "%{wgSession}C %h %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %b"	21:54
nuba	then head -1 /tmp/BartJol.log	21:54
nuba	lGtANrQ0lwU2sHC00wBSEw 201.78.30.151 - - [11/Feb/2008:17:24:49 -0200] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 18738	21:54
wgGuest43	hi	21:54
nuba	so you could keep track of urls being visited in a session this way too	21:54
BartJol	and how do I check that from within the macro	21:55
nuba	write to a log, then process/rotate it with a cron job	21:55
wgGuest43	i try to run spectre.pl and Displays the following error: 'jsonToObj' will be obsoleted. Please use 'from_json' instead. at /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8/Config/JSON.pm line 134	21:55
BartJol	mmm sounds possible, but maybe a bit above my knowledge right now	21:56
wgGuest43	how i can fix this?	21:56
BartJol	oh joy JSON again	21:56
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wgGuest25	hi	21:57
nuba	maybe it should be added to the topic. "jsonToObj errors? update JSON and Config::JSON!"	21:57
@khenn	the JSON issue will need to be fixed. It shouldn't cause any problems though	21:57
@khenn	just make sure you are running WebGUI 7.4.22	21:58
BartJol	but I will try to help on the sql issue of wgguest 81/88 template thingy	21:58
@apeiron	Hmm, if memory serves that's a warning not an error, yes? The "'jsonToObj will be obsoleted'"	21:58
BartJol	with emphasise on try	21:59
nuba	another good one for the topic: "Something broke? Did you check docs/gotcha.txt?"	21:59
@khenn	yes , it's a warning	21:59
@khenn	nothing breaks	21:59
@khenn	log it as a bug on pb.com if it's not already there	22:00
wgGuest25	yes a warning	22:00
wgGuest25	but, i don't see my webpage	22:00
wgGuest25	i saw in blank	22:01
@khenn	that's not because of spectre	22:01
@khenn	that's a different problem	22:01
wgGuest81	BartJol, if a call a macro in a template and it returns a collections or records, is posible to show a list of this record directly in the template?	22:01
@khenn	check the the modproxy logs	22:01
BartJol	wgguest 81, sorry, I have some issues creating another database, I'm a bit of a sql newby	22:03
wgGuest81	ok	22:04
BartJol	still trying though, have to learn	22:05
wgGuest81	hello all	22:07
metanil	<tmpl_var form.start> will return the form tag with its proper action.. with i found it doesn't have name.. how can i able to give a simple name to this form.. (implicitly in form.start)	22:07
wgGuest81	if a call a macro in a template and it returns a collections or records, is posible to show a list of this record directly in the template?	22:08
@preaction	you can't. you could write your own form.start though (in the template)	22:08
Samus_Aran	preaction: are you around today ? I could use a bit of help if you are	22:08
@preaction	wgGuest81, macros are processed after the template is processed. dunno if that answers your question	22:08
@preaction	Samus_Aran, can't. taking lunch and buying compy parts	22:08
* preaction &		22:08
metanil	preaction, you mean 'template' i could see 'form.start' in the template itself. there must be some .pm file which drives this.. is it?	22:10
Samus_Aran	Radix_: or you, as you mentioned using the proxy thing. I would like to use the WRE with the pre-existing Apache, using a mod_proxy to hand off requests as appropriate	22:10
Samus_Aran	preaction: no problem. enjoy	22:10
wgGuest81	preaction, if a put the macro in the beggining of the template, it will be executed after the template, too?	22:10
BartJol	yes	22:11
@khenn	metainl	22:12
@khenn	:	22:12
@khenn	copy the html from <tmpl_var form.start>	22:12
@khenn	then go into the template	22:12
@khenn	remove <tmpl_var form.start>	22:12
@khenn	paste in what it was printing out	22:12
@khenn	and modify as necessary	22:12
@khenn	don't change the action	22:12
@khenn	then you can name it whatever you want	22:12
BartJol	mmm, mysql won't let me create the db and I don't rmember the db admin passwd comination... so I'm afraid I can't help you at the moment wgguest 81	22:13
@khenn	you don't need to modify the core of WebGUI to make template changes	22:13
BartJol	have to fix that first	22:13
Samus_Aran	does anyone else know anything about using the WRE alongside an existing Apache/Perl/MySQL install ?	22:13
BartJol	and I like to improve my macro, which also eats time	22:13
Samus_Aran	as the manual install runs in ultra slow motion for me, quite unusable	22:14
@khenn	I know it can be a pain to install manually.	22:14
Samus_Aran	or is there simply some way I can test the WRE on an alternate port ?	22:14
@khenn	but you know that too	22:14
metanil	khenn, i am thinking of changing WebGUI::Form::formHeader.. .. is it ok?	22:14
wgGuest81	thanks BartJol	22:14
@khenn	no	22:14
@khenn	don't change that	22:14
@khenn	next upgrade you'll lose your changes	22:15
@khenn	just replace <tmpl_var form.start> with raw HTML	22:15
Samus_Aran	I got it installed manually quite well, without any issues I thought, but then it was going in slow motion. 10 to 30 seconds to load any page, on an unused server	22:15
@khenn	as long as you have the same action, it will be fine	22:15
@khenn	Samus, it could be a number of things	22:15
Samus_Aran	so now I want to try the WRE. almost got the WRE working on the weekend, but couldn't access the site through the proxy	22:15
metanil	hmm.. thanks khenn..	22:16
@khenn	it could be: the number of child processes in apache	22:16
@khenn	I believe WebGUI itself uses 3	22:16
Samus_Aran	I reduced the children, as they were using tons of RAM	22:16
@khenn	what did you reduce it to?	22:17
Samus_Aran	it was at 8 or 10 I think, and each was using around 78MiB RAM	22:17
@khenn	I think I run my dev server at 5	22:17
Samus_Aran	which seems highly excessive	22:17
metanil	khenn, what if that template is used by several pages???	22:17
Samus_Aran	the server is a dual-CPU 1.6Ghz with 1GiB RAM currently	22:17
@khenn	metanil: what is the action?	22:18
@khenn	on each of the pages	22:18
@khenn	is it posting to itself?	22:18
@khenn	if so, use the page macro as the action	22:18
@khenn	Samus: have you checked DNS	22:18
metanil	its the page which add this template	22:18
@khenn	we had issues a few weeks back where the server wasn't recognizing DNS	22:18
@khenn	which was causing every image to load ultra slow	22:18
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@khenn	Haarg would know more about the DNS stuff than I would	22:19
metanil	khenn, like /home/music/genre/form	22:19
@khenn	I think we had to explicitly put something in /etc/hosts	22:19
metanil	for this will only work for form page right?	22:19
@khenn	metanil: I think the page macro should work fine	22:19
@khenn	I can't remember what it is	22:19
metanil	ummm.. yaa. that would be great.	22:19
@khenn	though	22:19
@khenn	just set the action of the form to the page macro	22:19
metanil	(why didn't i think about it before)	22:19
Samus_Aran	khenn: MinSpareServers 2, MaxSpareServers 4, MaxClients 20	22:20
metanil	khenn,, and macro will return exact page url, right	22:20
wgGuest81	BartJol, can you help me tomorrow with the sql form?	22:20
wgGuest81	i am going to test at night and if a get something i will tell you tomorrow	22:21
BartJol	well other people know more about it	22:21
wgGuest81	Who?	22:21
Samus_Aran	khenn: and I added a MaxRequestsPerChild 300, as I was concerned about a memory leak such as was present with spectre (using 350MiB RAM after 2 days)	22:22
BartJol	but tomorrow I'm only available til 6 pm cet	22:22
wgGuest81	ok	22:22
BartJol	well, I suspect everyone :)	22:22
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@khenn	metanil: the macro will return the page it's on	22:23
@khenn	so that actually might not work	22:23
Samus_Aran	khenn: my Apache threads normally use 4.3MiB RAM, and with WebGUI that goes up to around 78MiB each. it seems that WebGUI does not play well in a shared environment	22:23
@khenn	unless the asset itself is the page	22:23
@khenn	if that's the case, it'll work great	22:24
@khenn	if the asset is on a page	22:24
BartJol	wgGuest81, dapperedodo and Mr Hairgrease know a lot about it, but are on holidays right now	22:24
@khenn	then the post will not work correctly when on the page	22:24
Samus_Aran	as there are other web sites, which will now use tons of RAM even serving simple HTML pages	22:24
metanil	hmm.. ya.. i think so..	22:24
BartJol	but they have a site	22:24
@khenn	Samus: here's what I would recommend doing	22:25
perlmonkey2	is there anyway to have cgi-bin be a functional scriptalias passthru? I can't seem to make it work.	22:25
@khenn	download the latest WRE and install it on a test box (or virtual machine)	22:25
@khenn	then look at how we've configured apache / mod perl / etc	22:26
BartJol	sorry wgGuest81, I was mistaken, it was on the sqlreport and in dutch.. which might cause some trouble	22:26
BartJol	but it is www.sqlreport.org	22:26
@khenn	I run on the WRE 0.81 on a P3 550 with only 512 megs of ram	22:26
@khenn	and it's actually pretty fast	22:26
@khenn	so it's definitely something with your configuration	22:27
@khenn	oh I'm running on Centos	22:27
@khenn	I also have a dev box on my mac	22:27
@khenn	but that's a different story	22:27
@khenn	perlmonkey2: you need to set up a rewrite rule in apache	22:28
perlmonkey2	khenn: okay, thanks :)	22:28
Samus_Aran	khenn: how much RAM do your Apache threads use each ? mine are 60 to 70MiB each as soon as WebGUI is enabled	22:28
@khenn	on my P3, I get up to 380 megs used at times	22:29
Samus_Aran	(with a manual install)	22:29
@khenn	I've never had the box crash	22:29
@khenn	and I've never had it run ultra slow	22:29
@khenn	but again, I'm not using a manual install	22:29
@khenn	so I'm guessing it's a config / fine tuning issue	22:29
Samus_Aran	but how much do individual threads of Apache use ? I want to know if my manual install is completely borked, or if it's normal to use that much	22:30
@khenn	I don't know how much each individual thread of Apache uses	22:30
@khenn	I'm not even sure how I would find that out.	22:30
@khenn	all I can see is how much total ram is being used by Apache	22:31
@khenn	all I know how to see anyway	22:31
@khenn	unfortunately we are pretty much at the limit of what I know how to troubleshoot	22:32
Samus_Aran	if you wanted to see RAM used, this command will do it: \ps ww -e -o rss,args \| grep httpd \| grep -v grep	22:34
Samus_Aran	it will display kilobytes of RAM for each Apache thread	22:34
Samus_Aran	for some unknown reason, when I started up the WebGUI running from the manual install, it is fast	22:34
Samus_Aran	there is now the /WRE in /data. perhaps it is using something from in there, even though it shouldn't. I'm not sure	22:35
@khenn	i'll check my dev box	22:35
Samus_Aran	the WRE isn't being used currently	22:35
Samus_Aran	but pages are loading <1 second	22:35
Samus_Aran	weird	22:35
@khenn	hmm	22:35
@khenn	yeah I'm not sure	22:36
Samus_Aran	it was a minimum of 5-8 seconds when I was working on it Thursday	22:36
Samus_Aran	and often 30	22:36
@khenn	sounds like something you did along the way fixed the problem	22:36
Samus_Aran	and since then I have not touched my manual install, I just moved it and put it back today	22:36
Samus_Aran	oh well. if it's working, it's working	22:36
Samus_Aran	[until it decides to stop working again, hehe]	22:36
Samus_Aran	it is perfectly fine now, nice and fast	22:38
@khenn	I ran that command	22:38
@khenn	each apache thread is using < 75k	22:39
@khenn	er < 65k	22:39
@khenn	er > 65k	22:39
@khenn	heh	22:39
@khenn	less than	22:39
Samus_Aran	I think I will test if it is using some component of the WRE I installed in /data. I will stop apache, rename /data and then try again	22:39
@khenn	I take it you have WebGUI installed somewhere besides /data	22:39
@khenn	ie: /data/WebGUI/lib	22:40
@khenn	otherwise you might just want to rename /data/wre	22:40
Samus_Aran	I have my manual install in /var/www/WebGUI and my domain at /var/www/foo.com	22:42
Samus_Aran	okay, renamed the old /data and restarted ... lemme see if it is slow now	22:42
Samus_Aran	made no difference. still nice and fast	22:42
Samus_Aran	I guess I can remove the WRE now and get on with developing the web site	22:43
@khenn	well, it's a mystery but it's solved	22:43
Samus_Aran	phew !	22:43
Samus_Aran	thanks for your help, khenn and preaction and Radix_	22:43
@khenn	sure thing	22:43
Samus_Aran	I haven't used WebGUI since v4.x, it has changed a lot. I find it more confusing now	22:43
Samus_Aran	but I will try to figure it out	22:44
@khenn	it's 1000 times the size	22:44
@khenn	wow WebGUI 4 eh?	22:44
@khenn	that's a long time ago	22:44
@khenn	Having used both versions, I can honestly say version 7 is much better	22:45
@khenn	especially from a developers standpoint	22:45
@khenn	it's a lot more customizeable	22:45
Samus_Aran	I find the UI more confusing, however I see a huge number of new features	22:45
Samus_Aran	and I like features =)	22:45
@khenn	you think the UI is more confusing?	22:46
wgGuest24	i have webgui 7.4.18 and don't see my page	22:46
@khenn	I thought it was much worse when all of the admin stuff was right in the middle of your page	22:46
@khenn	what do you mean you don't see your page?	22:46
Samus_Aran	khenn: for example adding a section to a page. it used to be intuitive, now I'm not even sure how to do it	22:46
wgGuest24	and in the webgui.log i found this error: ERROR - spectre.conf - POE::Kernel::_dispatch_event[1012] - ADMIN: Couldn't connect to WebGUI site	22:46
wgGuest24	what i must do?	22:47
@khenn	sounds like a configuration problem	22:47
@khenn	my guess is you have the IP address or port misconfigured	22:47
@khenn	for spectre	22:47
Samus_Aran	khenn: e.g. a new column or a paragraph of text. in 4.x it was very clear what to do, now all I see is "pages". preaction said that all the sections are pages now, which seems kind of strange	22:47
wgGuest24	i do a copy of spectre.conf.original	22:48
wgGuest24	and don't modified	22:48
@khenn	the problem is likely in your webgui config file	22:48
@khenn	do a search for spectre in there	22:48
@khenn	Samus: anything in WebGUI can be a page these days	22:49
@khenn	for instance	22:49
@khenn	if you wanted to create a page that only had one article on it	22:49
@khenn	you could simply add the article as a child of home or something else	22:49
@khenn	expose it to the navigation	22:49
@khenn	and presto, it's a page	22:50
@khenn	the only time you really need to use "Pages" per say, is when you want to display more than one "thing" on a "page"	22:50
@khenn	I guess that can be a bit confusing	22:50
Samus_Aran	in WebGUI 4.x, there would often be dozens of items on the page	22:51
Samus_Aran	each section was self-contained, so you could cut/paste it somewhere else, or move it to a new column, etc.	22:52
Samus_Aran	I'm not sure how to do that type of management in 7.x	22:52
@khenn	it's drag and drop now	22:53
@khenn	add a page layout	22:53
@khenn	then you can start adding things to that page layout	22:53
@khenn	those things become children of the page layout	22:53
@khenn	and you can drag and drop them or move them about via the asset manager	22:53
@khenn	actually, we have published an entire book on managing content in WebGUI	22:54
@khenn	https://www.plainblack.com/store/services/books2/webgui-content-managers-guide	22:54
@khenn	there is a great deal of content in there	22:55
@khenn	about using pretty much everything in WebGUI	22:55
@khenn	(in terms of content)	22:55
@khenn	I gotta run. BBL	22:55
-!- khenn is now known as khenn_afk		22:55
wgGuest24	my spectre.conf looks good	22:55
wgGuest24	i don't know that do?	22:56
perlmonkey2	With the $15/month PB hoster, there is no way to run custom macros?	23:04
wgGuest24	que debo hacer??	23:06
nuba	pregunta y espera	23:09
nuba	en el entremedio, puedes leer al wiki o a los foruns	23:10
nuba	lo mejor es que pregunte en ingl�s	23:10
nuba	your questions will reach more people this way	23:11
BartJol	well the session logging seems to work reasonly	23:13
BartJol	and the owner does not get karma anymore	23:13
BartJol	but the session logging does not always work great	23:14
wgGuest24	ya pregunte en ingles y nada	23:14
wgGuest24	they tell me that my spectre.conf is wrong, but this it's good	23:14
nuba	wgGuest24: can you handle yourself with a shell?	23:16
BartJol	but maybe it is just caching	23:16
nuba	wgGuest24: fire a shell, go to /data/wre/sbin, type '. ./setenvironment' without the quotes	23:16
nuba	that will set your environment properly	23:17
nuba	then go to /data/WebGUI/sbin and run 'perl spectre.pl --test'	23:17
nuba	if you see 'Tests completed.' and no error, your spectre is ok	23:18
nuba	otherwise it'll spit some error for you	23:18
wgGuest24	i dn't have wre i have the source	23:18
nuba	which you should use as your starting point	23:18
nuba	whoops	23:18
nuba	its been a while since I used to run webgui without the WRE, not sure I can help you then	23:19
nuba	anyway, try 'perl spectre.pl --test from wherever it is your WebGUI/sbin is located now	23:20
wgGuest24	ok	23:20
wgGuest24	'jsonToObj' will be obsoleted. Please use 'from_json' instead. at /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8/Config/JSON.pm line 134	23:20
nuba	perlbot: life with cpan	23:21
perlbot	Information pertaining to the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN) can be found at http://sial.org/howto/perl/life-with-cpan/	23:21
wgGuest24	couldn't connect www.ejemplo.com	23:21
nuba	did you add the proper DNS entries for your www.ejemplo.com site?	23:23
nuba	or added it to /etc/hosts	23:23
nuba	?	23:23
wgGuest24	yes	23:23
wgGuest24	and restart apache2	23:23
nuba	if you type 'host www.ejemplo.com', is it pointing to your machine's IP or some IP apache would be listening at?	23:23
wgGuest24	yes, my ip, because it's local	23:24
nuba	what is your webgui release again?	23:24
wgGuest24	7.4.18	23:24
nuba	is this a fresh install ? any reason for not using the latest stable?	23:25
nuba	actually, any reason for not using the wre?	23:25
wgGuest24	i have this before, and reinstall my ubuntu and now is install webgui	23:26
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2: you can't run any custom perl code on PB's hosting, unless you get your own server.	23:27
Samus_Aran	wgGuest24: if it is local, do you have a DNS server or is it in your hosts file ?	23:27
nuba	you know you could use the wre, install webgui 7.4.18 on it, add a site with the same name of what you had before, then replace the database for the one you had, and place the uploads under /data/domains/www.ejemplo.com/public, and live happly ever after, dont you?	23:28
nuba	by using the WRE it will be easier for you to get help from the community	23:29
nuba	ie. in my case I dont really remember a lot of configuring/troubleshooting a lone webgui install, no WRE	23:30
BartJol	perlDreamer, you mentioned a time ago something about wrting tests	23:31
+perlDreamer	yeah man	23:31
+perlDreamer	ready to learn?	23:31
BartJol	I feel I get in the stage that that might get usefull	23:31
+perlDreamer	okay, let me throw some resources your way	23:31
BartJol	ah, that would be nice	23:31
BartJol	need my mail?	23:32
+perlDreamer	1) Get a copy of my Testing Tutorial from WUC 2006. Koen, Joeri, Martin should all have copies	23:32
+perlDreamer	2) perldoc Test::Tutorial	23:32
+perlDreamer	3) perldoc Test::More	23:32
+perlDreamer	if you can't get a copy of my WUC talk, let me know and I'll email you one	23:32
BartJol	ok, Ill check that tomorrow	23:33
perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: that's what I remembered, but I wanted to make sure. Thanks	23:33
+perlDreamer	and from what I see on their site, $15 hosting is now $20 hosting	23:34
+perlDreamer	So good job for purchasing early :)	23:34
+perlDreamer	BartJol: In the meantime, have a look at the tests in /data/WebGUI/t/Macro for ideas and stuff to borrow.	23:35
BartJol	but it seems to run quite ok right now, but it really needs testing	23:35
+perlDreamer	with automated tests, no more loading, and reloading, and so on.	23:36
+perlDreamer	You set it up once, and keep using it.	23:36
BartJol	but you can do tests what happens on a reload?	23:37
+perlDreamer	Sure. Reload is the second time the user accesses the macro.	23:37
BartJol	check	23:37
BartJol	right now I already feel a bit proud that I came this far	23:38
perlmonkey2	what ever happened to crythias?	23:38
+perlDreamer	You should, man! You've worked hard and done well.	23:38
BartJol	it takes some initialisation time, but after that it goes quite ok	23:39
BartJol	easier to fix mistakes and stuff	23:39
Samus_Aran	does anyone have any idea why the site search might not work ?	23:42
wgGuest24	yes i have /data/domain/ejemplo.com/www/public	23:42
Samus_Aran	I don't get any errors, just no results. it puts me on the search page again	23:42
Samus_Aran	hm. apparently if you use ^c; for the company name, it won't find it when you type part of the name	23:43
Samus_Aran	I tried some other words and they were found	23:43
BartJol	ah, yes I heard that it is a bit sensitive sometimes	23:43
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: I _think_ you have to run the site indexer manually when you start the site.	23:43
Samus_Aran	actually, that isn't the issue. hm	23:43
Samus_Aran	it seems to be ignoring my Contact form text	23:44
Samus_Aran	perlDreamer: I will look into that	23:44
Samus_Aran	it finds the page names, but not text on the page	23:44
BartJol	but I'm gonna relax now and test later	23:48
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+perlDreamer	I think the SpectreCheck macro needs to use the most maligned HTML tag of all time.	23:57
Samus_Aran	Does anyone know how I can make the news post immediately ? it is set to "Commit without approval"	23:57
Samus_Aran	I thought <blink> was the most maligned	23:57
+perlDreamer	Yup. If spectre is broken, then I want it to be very visible.	23:58
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: This is a guess, but try the sitewide settings for autocommit and autoapprove. They should make that intermediate page go away.	23:58
+perlDreamer	But they will apply to ALL asset commits, not just the News	23:59
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BartJol	can't you call the macro with tehe rolling eyes of jt?	23:59
BartJol	xeyes evaluated	23:59
--- Day changed Tue Feb 12 2008
cap10morgan	What are common causes of this error when trying to exec a workflow instance: "Couldn't execute operation ... Root cause: can't build entity: no body, and not multipart"?	00:00
BartJol	oh, sorry, it was an acme, and then it would be usefull	00:00
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Samus_Aran	perlDreamer: it is a small site, I don't think we will need much of a workflow. realtime is alright	00:00
+perlDreamer	cap10morgan: That's a new one on us.	00:00
cap10morgan	perlDreamer: great! :)	00:01
+perlDreamer	wanna nopaste some log file output?	00:01
cap10morgan	that's all of it	00:01
cap10morgan	w/o turning up the logging level	00:01
+perlDreamer	webgui.log or error.log?	00:01
cap10morgan	which i may have to do here shortly...	00:01
cap10morgan	webgui.log	00:02
+perlDreamer	check the error.log	00:02
+perlDreamer	that's not a WebGUI error	00:02
cap10morgan	hmm, the error.log says nothing when i generate that error	00:03
cap10morgan	but it does have tons of Apache2::SizeLimit messages	00:03
cap10morgan	over and over	00:03
cap10morgan	it's killing processes left and right	00:03
cap10morgan	hmm...	00:03
CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5414 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Macro/_macro.skeleton: added POD to the macro skeleton	00:03
Samus_Aran	perlDreamer: I really do not understand the versioning used in 7.x	00:04
Samus_Aran	perlDreamer: I went and clicked on "commit my changes" and it reverted all the work I did	00:04
+perlDreamer	is Spectre running and configured properly?	00:05
Samus_Aran	perlDreamer: at this point I am unsure what is going on =/	00:05
Samus_Aran	running, yes. configured properly, I don't know	00:05
Samus_Aran	I did a manual install via the instructions on the web site	00:05
+perlDreamer	head over to the WebGUI sbin directory and do a perl spectre.pl --test	00:06
Samus_Aran	ERROR: Spectre cannot communicate with WebGUI. Perhaps you need to adjust the spectreSubnets setting in this config file: <domain>.conf	00:07
+perlDreamer	well, there you go	00:07
+perlDreamer	WebGUI can't talk to spectre to commit your assets, so they're locked	00:07
+perlDreamer	while they're locked, the site doesn't display them	00:08
Samus_Aran	when I clicked commit, it lcoked them	00:08
Samus_Aran	*locked	00:08
+perlDreamer	yup	00:08
Samus_Aran	okay, going to look	00:08
Samus_Aran	oh I know what's going on	00:08
Samus_Aran	or not.	00:09
Samus_Aran	(I thought it was an incorrect password)	00:09
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: If you've found any of our help useful today, you can help us by making a wiki page with what you've learned today.	00:09
-!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has quit ["Windows doesn't have users, it has hostages."]		00:11
Samus_Aran	"spectreSubnets" : [ "127.0.0.1/32" ], "spectreIp" : "127.0.0.1", "spectrePort" : 32323,	00:12
Samus_Aran	that is normal, is it not ?	00:12
+perlDreamer	looks okay, but then again, I'm not all that familiar with Spectre.	00:13
+perlDreamer	what's in spectre.conf?	00:13
BartJol	what happens when you change the ip to the real ip?	00:14
Samus_Aran	"ip" : "127.0.0.1", "port" : 32323, "maxWorkers" : 3, "webguiPort" : 80,	00:14
BartJol	and I've seen other subnets than 32	00:14
BartJol	I got it working once by changing it to 16 or 24 I believe	00:15
Samus_Aran	oh my gosh:	00:16
Samus_Aran	-rw-r--r-- 1 www-data root 246M 2008-02-11 14:15 /var/log/webgui.log	00:16
Samus_Aran	that is a large log file, considering I have done almost nothing on WebGUI so far	00:16
Samus_Aran	heh	00:16
Samus_Aran	hm	00:18
Samus_Aran	I see this in the log file:	00:18
CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5414 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Macro/_macro.skeleton: added POD to the macro skeleton	00:18
Samus_Aran	main::[[undef]] - Visitor (1) connecting from <external_ip> attempted to make a Spectre workflow runner request, but we're on ly allowed to accept requests from 127.0.0.1/32.	00:18
Samus_Aran	that appears a lot	00:18
Samus_Aran	so presumably the router is giving my connection the external IP	00:19
Samus_Aran	even though both this computer and the server are on the same LAN	00:19
Samus_Aran	though I thought it was just the webgui process that would connect to it, in which case the IP shouldn't matter	00:19
Samus_Aran	as it never leaves localhost	00:20
Samus_Aran	I'm not entirely clear on this whole webgui/spectre communication thing	00:20
Samus_Aran	this error appears a lot: "Couldn't get UI level of WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WeatherData. Root cause: Can't locate object method "getUiLevel""	00:22
Samus_Aran	via package "WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WeatherData" at /var/www/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm line 696.	00:22
BartJol	Samus_Aran, the subnet was changed to 16	00:24
-!- wgGuest81 [n=wgGuest8@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has quit []		00:24
metanil	Can i have "File submitted by", "File submitted at (time)", "File last accessed by" beside "description" and "last updated" field in the File asset.??	00:30
BartJol	well you can, if the template variables exist	00:31
@preaction	not last accessed (unless that means last changed). submitted by is probably easy (<tmpl_var ownerUserId>)	00:31
@preaction	but you'll need to get the username out of that. probably with a macro. dunno if any macros built-in will do it	00:32
Samus_Aran	preaction: could you help me figure out why spectre can't communicate with my manually installed webgui ? it is running very fast now, by the way	00:34
Samus_Aran	not sure why, but I'm not complaining	00:34
@preaction	i would bet that spectre is for some reason binding on the external IP. or if your /etc/hosts has yourdomain.com pointing to that external IP, it might show up like that. your best bet would be to do what the error message from spectre.pl --test said, and put your external IP in spectreSubnets	00:35
Samus_Aran	I just got a new error, when restarting apache and spectre	00:37
Samus_Aran	actually that error seems to only be because I had stopped apache and then loaded spectre first	00:39
Samus_Aran	afk brb	00:39
-!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has joined #webgui		00:43
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Samus_Aran	everything seems to be working now. added the external IP as a subnet to Spectre	00:58
Samus_Aran	not sure why Spectre is even looking at the external IP when it's on the same computer as WebGUI	00:59
Samus_Aran	all my changes reappeared	00:59
+perlDreamer	Spectre processed the version workflow	00:59
nuba	i think it would be good if every wiki update would appear here with the wikipage title, and the webgui.org nickname of the person who did the change	01:00
+perlDreamer	nuba: PB's contract with their provider says "NO IRC"	01:00
+perlDreamer	You'd have to screen scrape it.	01:00
nuba	like "Wiki: WebGUI Search System edited by knowmad"	01:01
nuba	"Wiki: Subscriptions, Manage added by knowmad"	01:01
Samus_Aran	can the wiki provide a dump of the most recent 50 posts, in xml or csv ? that would be simple enough to check once per 5 minutes or similar	01:02
nuba	theres http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki?func=recentChanges	01:02
nuba	i can whip that up with irssi	01:02
nuba	perlDreamer: if they can run a irc client from their servers, they can have a irc bot	01:03
nuba	but maybe even that they cannot do	01:03
+perlDreamer	it isn't on their servers, it runs locally on the web client in Java	01:03
+perlDreamer	I've been hounding JT about this for two years.	01:04
+perlDreamer	He's very adamant about the contract.	01:04
nuba	it happens that irc client, some bots, and a private ircd (for work), well, thats exactly what I do from my dedacated server :)	01:04
Samus_Aran	you could also set up an SSH tunnel from the server	01:05
nuba	never had any issue with the providers. but then my ircd is wrapped with SSL, with a password to connect to the ircd too	01:05
nuba	and this is a very very low traffic machine	01:06
@preaction	nuba, if you're willing, JT has said he will accept me building an interface (a la JSON or XML or somesuch) to the data that your bot could use	01:09
@preaction	of course, one of the features i want to see in the wiki is the ability to subscribe to a wikipage	01:10
@preaction	which would fulfill the same purpose really	01:11
nuba	the wiki having a RSS feed would be good enough	01:11
nuba	does it?	01:11
nuba	otherwise im scraping it	01:11
nuba	it would make a lot of sense for me this of people subscribing to a RSS feed of recent changes in a wiki	01:12
Samus_Aran	nuba: if they can modify the wiki to dump in csv or xml, it will save the server from sending more data than it needs (a whole HTML page)	01:12
cap10morgan	hmm, a bunch of my modperl instances are segfaulting	01:13
cap10morgan	any clever tricks to debug why that's happening?	01:13
cap10morgan	i should say, modperl processes	01:13
nuba	ktrace?	01:13
nuba	and kdump?	01:13
nuba	you can have hours of fun with that	01:13
+perlDreamer	PB people: When is the rizenator back?	01:14
nuba	for some offbeat definition of fun, of course	01:14
@preaction	nuba, i can build a shortcut to the wiki that will give you whatever you want in whatever serialization you want, JSON, XML, or otherwise. (i'd prefer JSON, more possibilities)	01:14
cap10morgan	nuba: hmm, googling, thanks for the suggestion	01:14
cap10morgan	nuba: does ktrace work on linux?	01:15
+perlDreamer	http://www.presicient.com/langjobs/usajobs.html	01:15
cap10morgan	looks like a bsd thing	01:15
nuba	cap10morgan: if you launch a single instance of apache, enable ktrace, and reproduce the error, skip to about the end of your dump and its probably around there	01:15
nuba	thats what I sometimes do on freebsd, dunno what you'd use in linux	01:16
cap10morgan	ah, ok	01:16
cap10morgan	i guess that would be strace	01:16
@preaction	Debugging and profiling mod_perl applications: http://www.perl.com/lpt/a/974	01:17
nuba	Samus_Aran: for a 18566 bytes html, its ~66MB/day plus some little overhead to retrieve /community-wiki?func=recentChanges every minute and scrap it	01:20
nuba	preaction: if I can ask, I'd first ask that the wiki outputs RSS so that besides scrapping I can subscribe to it	01:21
+perlDreamer	yeah!	01:21
+perlDreamer	RSS	01:21
nuba	or any webgui wiki	01:21
@preaction	i could write something to do that, yes	01:21
@preaction	give me until tomorrow	01:22
nuba	afterwards looking for other formats like JSON would be ok, but the RSS is the thing I think most people wouldbenefit from	01:22
nuba	preaction: can plainblack live with 66Mb/day for a few days?	01:22
@preaction	what do you mean?	01:22
nuba	if yes im getting this bot to scrap the page and post new updates here today	01:23
+perlDreamer	one WebGUI download / day from PB is bigger than that, nuba	01:23
@preaction	yes, but the download doesn't go through webgui	01:23
nuba	i knkow, but since Samus_Aran brought the worry about MB/day up..	01:23
metanil	is there any method available in webgui core that will return username from userid (as parameter)???	01:23
+perlDreamer	metanil: not yet :)	01:24
@preaction	metanil, print WebGUI::User->new( $session, $userId )->username;	01:24
+perlDreamer	Sounds like a good RFE	01:24
metanil	hmm..	01:25
metanil	ok i'll write my own.	01:25
+perlDreamer	preaction: How about some golfing :)	01:29
+perlDreamer	WebGUI::User->new(@_)->username;	01:30
@preaction	touche	01:30
+perlDreamer	but it leaves you open to user creation attacks	01:30
CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5415 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (i18n/English/Macro_SpectreCheck.pm Macro/SpectreCheck.pm): adding the SpectreCheck Macro, per the RFE	01:33
@preaction	what does the SpectreCheck macro do?	01:34
+perlDreamer	It says whether or not a connection could be made to Spectre	01:34
@preaction	i suppose that could be useful	01:35
+perlDreamer	I think it would be more useful displayed in the AdminBar.	01:36
+perlDreamer	What do you think?	01:36
@preaction	didn't that RFE say something about displaying it during a commit?	01:36
+perlDreamer	it's 3-fold	01:36
+perlDreamer	1) When committing	01:36
+perlDreamer	2) When auto-committing (which is TBD)	01:37
+perlDreamer	3) Macro for displaying status	01:37
cap10morgan	hmm, yeah, strace indicates that i'm sometimes getting segfaults something is retrieved from the db cache	01:42
cap10morgan	clearing the cache and restarting doesn't help	01:42
cap10morgan	but switching to file cache does	01:42
nuba	nice	01:43
cap10morgan	yep, "select content from cache..." precedes the segfault every time	01:43
@preaction	weirdness	01:44
cap10morgan	that seems bad overall	01:44
@preaction	what does myisamchk say about the cache table?	01:44
cap10morgan	it's in a bunch of different sites' databases	01:44
cap10morgan	i mean, i could check anyway, but seems unlikely they're all affected	01:45
cap10morgan	says 1 client is using or hasn't closed properly	01:47
cap10morgan	and usable but should be fixed	01:47
cap10morgan	on 2 sites that exhibit the problem	01:47
Samus_Aran	How can I check why my contact form is not sending an e-mail to the To and Cc addresses ?	01:48
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: Either a mail server or a spectre problem	01:49
Samus_Aran	it only saves the data on the page	01:49
Samus_Aran	perlDreamer: does it use sendmail to send it, or Perl directly, or what ?	01:49
+perlDreamer	It uses what you told it to in the site Settings	01:49
Samus_Aran	is there a log file that would show an error ?	01:49
+perlDreamer	yes	01:49
+perlDreamer	webgui.log	01:49
Samus_Aran	okay, will look for site settings	01:49
+perlDreamer	although, if spectre isn't running, then the workflow to send the emails won't run either	01:50
Samus_Aran	Spectre is fine now	01:52
Samus_Aran	after adding the external IP	01:52
Samus_Aran	I see in Settings under the Messaging tab "SMTP Server" set to "localhost". it doesn't have options for port numbers or authentication	01:53
Samus_Aran	I guess I will have to set up a localhost mail server to relay	01:53
Samus_Aran	I don't think the server has one currently	01:54
+perlDreamer	i'd bet you can type anything you want in there	01:54
* cap10morgan is disabling Database cache on all his sites		01:54
Samus_Aran	the mail server we use here requires user/pass authentication and a non-standard port	01:54
* nuba sent a mail asking for the admin of http://chl.be/mascots/ to add gooey there		01:54
nuba	and now meet ..	01:55
-!- GoeyOfSteel [n=puppetma@hq.imaterial.org] has joined #webgui		01:55
Samus_Aran	gooey meat.	01:55
nuba	this is another irssi in my box, which will be my bot	01:55
-!- GoeyOfSteel is now known as GooeyOfSteel		01:55
nuba	better now	01:55
nuba	instead of the defunct project2501, which somehow wasnt very popular here	01:56
nuba	GooeyOfSteel: hello	01:57
@apeiron	Your puppet master seems the taciturn sort.	01:57
nuba	i added eliza to it once, let me check..	01:58
nuba	he was very talkative by then...	01:58
@apeiron	Or she. :o	01:58
nuba	the idea was to somehow extract more info from people coming here asking for help	01:58
nuba	to make troubleshooting easier, after the people had already been milked out of information about their issues :)	01:59
nuba	it didnt worked as I thought it could, it was a good idea for a startup, unfortunately i forgot to add buzzwords like web2.0 and AJAX to help sell the idea, you know?..	02:00
@apeiron	nuba, Depending upon the strategy you want to take with it (active vs passive seeding), you may want to take a look at the infobot code.	02:01
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: I'm guessing all that can be specified, but I have no idea how to do it.	02:02
@preaction	perlDreamer, Samus_Aran: no. it's not. it would be a relatively painless RFE though	02:04
Samus_Aran	okay	02:05
Samus_Aran	thank you both	02:05
Samus_Aran	infobot is nice	02:05
Samus_Aran	once it gets a large database, that is	02:05
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: submit the RFE, wait for it to be approved, then dump a little karma into it	02:05
Samus_Aran	is there some way to sort the menu items (flexmenu) ?	02:06
Samus_Aran	also, where are the descriptions used, when you create a page ?	02:06
Samus_Aran	in the sitemap, or search or what ?	02:07
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@preaction	it's available to the template, so most anywhere. it's indexed too, so search yes	02:09
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GooeyOfSteel	GooeyOfSteel: breathe!	02:12
nuba	oops	02:12
nuba	GooeyOfSteel: breathe!	02:12
GooeyOfSteel	nuba: Please go on.	02:13
nuba	there is eliza again.. now onto the wiki update things...	02:13
* apeiron hands nuba the +5 mace of recalcitrant bot subdoing.		02:13
@apeiron	er, subduing	02:13
+perlDreamer	oh no, I think subdoing is much more appropriate for a bot	02:14
GooeyOfSteel	perlDreamer: Why?	02:15
metanil	to make a new template variable available in the template, where should i add it? like $var{newtemplatevar} = "val"; .. where should i do this?	02:15
+perlDreamer	bots are subs doing stuff	02:15
nuba	perlDreamer: you must prefix your phrases with 'GooeyOfSteel: '	02:16
@apeiron	nuba, I have an RFE for your bot!	02:16
nuba	in case you want to talk with GooeyOfSteel...	02:16
+perlDreamer	GooeyOfSteel: bots are subs doing stuff	02:16
GooeyOfSteel	perlDreamer: Did you think they might not be subs doing stuff?	02:16
+perlDreamer	GooeyOfSteel: That is the core concern of any programmer, but you already knew that	02:16
GooeyOfSteel	perlDreamer: Oh, I already knew that?	02:17
+perlDreamer	GooeyOfSteel: Of course. Aren't you self-aware?	02:17
GooeyOfSteel	perlDreamer: Oh, I self-aware?	02:17
@apeiron	s/GooeyOfSteel/GumbyBRAIN/g	02:18
+perlDreamer	indeed	02:20
@apeiron	perlDreamer, You've met Gumby?	02:20
+perlDreamer	Like the bendy green guy?	02:21
@apeiron	Not quite.	02:21
Samus_Aran	what was Gumby's horse's name ?	02:21
+perlDreamer	Pokie?	02:22
Samus_Aran	yes.	02:22
Samus_Aran	can someone remind me what the item is called that is used for News ? I accidentally got it removed (I cut it to paste somewhere else, then restarted WebGUI and it went poof)	02:23
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Samus_Aran	I just realised that I only want one set of data, for both the events calendar and the news items, as there is overlap	02:27
Samus_Aran	not sure how I could do that, though	02:27
+perlDreamer	pull RSS/Ical from the Events Calendar as you news feed?	02:28
Samus_Aran	basically one view of the data in month view, and another view of the data in most recent	02:28
Samus_Aran	I mean, a plain list	02:29
+perlDreamer	The calendar doesn't do a list view yet.	02:29
Samus_Aran	if I tell it to export an RSS, can I get a item-by-item listing from that using another plugin ?	02:30
* perlDreamer decides to double check whether the calendar supports RSS before answering		02:31
@preaction	no	02:31
@preaction	just iCal	02:31
@preaction	but you can make RSS out of any asset using shortcuts and template overrides	02:31
+perlDreamer	are we still planning a general RSS solution for Assets?	02:32
Samus_Aran	it seems that news and events would go together for many people	02:32
+perlDreamer	to replace RSSCapable and RSSFromParent?	02:32
Samus_Aran	I mean, any upcoming event is a newsworthy item	02:32
+Radix-wrk	the collaboration system has an rss mode doesn't it?	02:34
@preaction	Samus_Aran, please. if you have RFEs, post them to the RFE list. complaining about WebGUI's shortcomings here is counter-productive. patches are welcome.	02:34
@preaction	Radix-wrk, yes. same with Syndicated Content assets	02:34
Samus_Aran	any idea why the heading used for News is more prominent than that used by Calendar ?	02:34
+Radix-wrk	prolly just different css used in each	02:35
+Radix-wrk	you can change that through the template easily enough	02:35
+Radix-wrk	Is the Thingy in 7.5.x yet?	02:35
Samus_Aran	News uses <h2> and Calendar uses <h1>	02:35
+perlDreamer	It's just the default template	02:36
Samus_Aran	they should both be of the same importance	02:36
+Radix-wrk	file it as a bug then	02:36
@preaction	or edit the template and attach a package to the bug	02:39
Samus_Aran	I just checked, and all other objects in my site are using <h2>, so it is the calendar that is doing it wrong	02:39
Samus_Aran	where is the template ?	02:39
+Radix-wrk	edit calendar, go to display tab and select edit next to the calendar template	02:40
+Radix-wrk	easiest way would be to get rid of the title altogether tho :)	02:41
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+Radix-wrk	looks like you'd need to edit each different view of the calendar otherwise	02:42
Samus_Aran	I updated the 4 views. quite easy, thank you	02:46
@preaction	a note: if you edited the default templates, they can be overwritten by an upgrade. or you could submit the bug report and attach your changed templates	02:47
@preaction	or you could copy the default templates and make changes to your copies	02:47
Samus_Aran	how do I stop an item from taking over the page ? e.g. on my "News & Events" page I have a News section then a Calendar section. if any of the items on the calendar are clicked on, such as changing the view, it leaves the page and never goes back	02:49
Samus_Aran	I don't want an end user seeing any of the sub-pages	02:50
Samus_Aran	I mean, single components	02:50
@preaction	didn't we discuss this last night? I know radix shared your sentiments, but it's not possible to do what you want and still get any functionality	02:53
@preaction	okay, it is possible, but the resulting URLs would be horrendous	02:54
@preaction	i believe i gave examples using the collaboration system	02:54
Samus_Aran	I'm not concerned about the URLs, I am concerned about the end user being yanked out of the page they are in the middle of and being confused about how to get the rest of the content on the page	02:56
Samus_Aran	if someone is scrolling down a page somewhere in the middle, and click a tab on a calendar, the rest of the page shouldn't magically disappear on them	02:56
Samus_Aran	I haven't seen other web sites behave that way	02:57
perlmonkey2	Okay, I need to start joining the survey system into WG. Is the wiki wobject guide + skeleton still the best way to learn how to create wobjects?	02:57
nuba	perlmonkey2: cool!	02:59
@preaction	perlmonkey2, yes, for the most part. i've been told that the Gallery is the pinnacle of WebGUI development (i was told to build it as such), so look there for style and ideas on how to do permissions and such	02:59
perlmonkey2	hah, cool until you realize how complicated WG is	02:59
@preaction	the skeleton is a bit out of date. there are better ways to do some things	03:00
perlmonkey2	preaction: thanks :)	03:00
@preaction	i've been meaning to fix it, but no time (Gallery not done yet)	03:00
perlmonkey2	preaction: that is what I thought. I've looked at code and the skeleton and they don't match up well.	03:00
@preaction	the gallery, galleryalbum and photo assets do things the best way we currently know how	03:01
perlmonkey2	I don't see a Gallery? Only the galleryalbulm and utility?	03:02
perlmonkey2	I don't see a photo either	03:02
perlmonkey2	not in the source tree yet?	03:02
@preaction	they're in there	03:03
@preaction	lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Gallery.pm lib/WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm	03:03
perlmonkey2	preaction: wow.....I just did svn update 1 hour ago and I'm not seeing that....let me re update	03:03
perlmonkey2	okay, found Photo.pm	03:04
Samus_Aran	any idea why, when I have "filter code: nothing" it still doesn't display ^c; as the company name ? this is on a news item displayed as a weblog	03:05
perlmonkey2	but Gallery.pm isn't showing up ofr me	03:05
* perlmonkey2 wonders off to try to fix his subversion checkout		03:05
perlmonkey2	preaction: you just submitted another version, yet I still can't get svn to get that file. I can see it by browsing to the directory. Strange.	03:11
@preaction	weird indeed	03:11
@preaction	maybe try a full checkout in another directory?	03:11
perlmonkey2	hmm, reverted to a previous version then updated, and got it.	03:15
@preaction	weird	03:15
Samus_Aran	more issues with the weblog display for news: it only displays 8 words, instead of a couple paragrahs, before the "more" link	03:16
Samus_Aran	*paragraphs	03:16
Samus_Aran	where would I go to increase this limit ?	03:16
Samus_Aran	I don't see anything in the template	03:17
CIA-21	WebGUI: doug * r5416 /WebGUI/ (7 files in 5 dirs):	03:18
CIA-21	WebGUI: add: i18n for more Gallery templates	03:18
CIA-21	WebGUI: add: International macro now takes sprintf arguments as third and subsequent parameters	03:18
CIA-21	WebGUI: add: Keywords are now processed and given to the photo template, along with a url to search the gallery for the keyword.	03:18
CIA-21	WebGUI: add: Photos now track views	03:18
CIA-21	WebGUI: doug * r5417 /WebGUI/docs/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fix: multiple Gallery template fixes	03:18
perlmonkey2	Samus_Aran: Good question. What's the template name and I'll look at it.	03:19
Samus_Aran	weblog under news	03:19
perlmonkey2	an asset search for weblog brings back one template "weblog". Is that it?	03:20
Samus_Aran	Collaboration System Template: Weblog	03:20
perlmonkey2	k	03:20
Samus_Aran	yes	03:20
perlmonkey2	looks like <tmpl_var synopsis> is being set in the wobject	03:21
+Radix-wrk	tmpl_var synopsis usually picks up everything until the first newline in the text from memory	03:22
@preaction	or up to the ^; marker (i think that's what it is)	03:23
+Radix-wrk	^-; ?	03:23
@preaction	yeah, that	03:23
+Radix-wrk	It's something funny like that	03:23
perlmonkey2	the word synopsis shows up three times in the wobject.....I have no idea what is going on in any three.	03:23
perlmonkey2	only that one is an rss item.	03:23
Samus_Aran	"The ^c; beta web site is now up"\	03:24
Samus_Aran	*all	03:24
Samus_Aran	that is aklk it shows for me	03:24
perlmonkey2	$var->{"synopsis.label"} = $i18n->get("synopsis");	03:24
Samus_Aran	it also doesn't conver the ^c; into a company name, even with filters set to none	03:24
Samus_Aran	*convert	03:24
Samus_Aran	(this laptop keyboard sucks)	03:24
+Radix-wrk	is the c macro listed in your webgui.conf file?	03:25
+Radix-wrk	it might be disabled by default for some wierd reason	03:25
Samus_Aran	I will look	03:25
perlmonkey2	Samus_Aran: Just ot make sure I'm lookin at the right part of the template, the very next thing after the synopsis text, is the weblogReadMore div?	03:25
Samus_Aran	Radix-wrk: where would webgui.conf normally reside ?	03:28
Samus_Aran	I have a $PREFIX/etc/WebGUI.conf.original, but don't see any WebGUI.conf or webgui.conf file. I don't recall instructions telling me to create that one	03:29
Samus_Aran	I created one for my domain and one for spectre and one for logging	03:30
Samus_Aran	perlmonkey2: <tmpl_var synopsis> \n <div class="weblogReadMore">	03:30
Samus_Aran	where would I find the code for: $i18n->get("synopsis"); being called in "lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Collaboration.pm"	03:33
perlmonkey2	That's whI have no idea how the synopsis is created. I created a entry. then changed the text of the entry. The synopsis still shows the original ocntent even after I cleared the cache and forced a reload.	03:34
Samus_Aran	hm	03:35
Samus_Aran	a simpler question: how do I create a page under another ?	03:36
Samus_Aran	I don't get what a Folder is versus a Page Layout	03:36
perlmonkey2	you create page layouts	03:36
perlmonkey2	a page layouts contains assets	03:36
Samus_Aran	is a Page Layout an asset ?	03:36
perlmonkey2	they are what you might consider a "folder"	03:36
perlmonkey2	yes	03:36
perlmonkey2	it will be added to the nav bar and will be a "web page"	03:37
Samus_Aran	and what is the WebGUI Folder ?	03:37
perlmonkey2	that can contain articles, weblogs	03:37
perlmonkey2	whatever	03:37
perlmonkey2	a real file folder	03:37
perlmonkey2	well	03:37
perlmonkey2	a virtual file folder	03:37
Samus_Aran	a real virtual file folder	03:37
Samus_Aran	heh	03:37
perlmonkey2	for assets	03:37
Samus_Aran	so how does it differ from a Page Layout ?	03:37
+Radix-wrk	it's more for displaying lists of things	03:38
+Radix-wrk	like lists of files or the like	03:38
perlmonkey2	where can I find posts to the collab in the database?	03:45
perlmonkey2	This is so weird. I can not make the new submission to the collab system show up in the synopsys.	03:47
perlmonkey2	hmm, I'm guessing clearing the cache doens't effect all wobjects	03:51
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Samus_Aran	is there any way to rearrange the order of pages after they are placed ?	04:14
Samus_Aran	the order in which they appear in the flexmenu	04:14
Samus_Aran	I suppose it's not that hard to cut all the pages, then repaste them in the order I want	04:16
* perlmonkey2 is still trying to figure out the synopsis. I just don't see what is happening in the code.		04:18
perlmonkey2	Samus_Aran: In the asset menu	04:19
perlmonkey2	you can drag and drop them	04:19
perlmonkey2	which effects how the nav asset displays them.	04:19
Samus_Aran	perlmonkey2: I just figured out something about the synopsis	04:24
perlmonkey2	Do tell :)	04:24
Samus_Aran	strangely, when you edit the weblog entry, it only displays a subject and body	04:25
Samus_Aran	but if you go to preview, it then shows a "summary"	04:25
Samus_Aran	which is the synopsis	04:25
Samus_Aran	so it isn't actually cutting it down, it seems	04:25
Samus_Aran	it was a field hidden to me	04:25
* Samus_Aran goes to confirm it is only appearing after a preview		04:25
perlmonkey2	ah	04:26
perlmonkey2	I'm in preview and don't see a "summary".	04:26
Samus_Aran	hm. well it seems to be showing up now, but I know I didn't type in half a sentence before	04:26
Samus_Aran	I'm not really sure what's going on with it	04:26
Samus_Aran	I see it any time I go to edit now	04:27
* perlmonkey2 goes to make sure his gui privleges are maxed		04:28
perlmonkey2	I wonder why I don't see it.	04:28
perlmonkey2	you are using the weblog template?	04:28
perlmonkey2	I only see Subject Message evne if I click preview	04:29
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* perlmonkey2 hates when he accidently logs out		04:31
Samus_Aran	yes, using the weblog template. however, I used another template at the start, and it imported data to the next template	04:32
Samus_Aran	and each time it did that, it seemed to randomly do things to the data	04:32
Samus_Aran	I think that switching through all the templates messed up my article	04:32
perlmonkey2	In the database I can find the synopsis I see in the wobject table, but the complete post I can not find there. I can't find it in any table.	04:32
perlmonkey2	I have no idea which table submissions are stored.	04:33
Samus_Aran	it just suddenly appeared for me when I went to preview	04:33
Samus_Aran	and now everything is fine	04:33
Samus_Aran	try switching to another template such as guestbook, when you already have a submission	04:33
Samus_Aran	or Q/A, etc.	04:33
Samus_Aran	I tried them all before I decided to stick with weblog	04:34
Samus_Aran	and half of them displayed the entry strangely	04:34
Samus_Aran	including inserting a line break in the middle of a sentence, which was not visible in the web form editing the text	04:34
Samus_Aran	e.g. "this is a sentence" in the edit box, and when it was displayed on the list of news items, it showed up as: "this is"	04:35
Samus_Aran	"a sentence"	04:35
Samus_Aran	it seems that the various templates are not using the same exact variables	04:35
perlmonkey2	Hah, I am pretty sure I know where the synopsis is coming from now. PrepareView is a wrapper for the rss call. What you are seing on front is created by the rss feed.	04:35
Samus_Aran	or not using them in the same way	04:35
Samus_Aran	it would be nice if there were a way to change the date of the news items	04:37
Samus_Aran	sometimes you want to post a few hours or days away	04:38
perlmonkey2	I think the Webgui structure is far too complicated to understand without documentation.	04:40
perlmonkey2	Trying to track down how this rss call is working is sending me all over the place	04:40
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perlmonkey2	And still, I can never find where synopsis is set.	04:42
perlmonkey2	this really sucks.	04:42
perlmonkey2	Well I'm not sure it even works as I'm still getting the synopsis from my first post even though I've changed it.	04:46
perlmonkey2	Well this sucks....Plone isn't very useful and I can never get WebGUI to work.	04:47
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perlmonkey2	Yay, found a problem in the webgui.log	04:49
perlmonkey2	looks like a permissions issue in my uploads directory.	04:50
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perlmonkey2	main::[[undef]] - Could not instanciate object using new on WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Collaboration. The result is undefined. at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Instance.pm line 322	04:53
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manishmanish	hi	06:54
+Radix-wrk	hi	07:07
manishmanish	I'm new to webgui	07:08
manishmanish	So, I'm d/ling, instsalling it now	07:08
manishmanish	may have questions, but looks like an amazing promising system	07:08
+Radix-wrk	good luck! :)	07:08
manishmanish	:)	07:08
+Radix-wrk	It's good.. installation can be awkward sometimes.. but it's worth it imho :)	07:09
manishmanish	are there any plugins to allow checking for Domain Names?	07:10
manishmanish	in the cms itself?	07:10
manishmanish	i know, it's a wierd question :>	07:10
+perlDreamer	What do you mean by "checking for Domain Names"?	07:14
manishmanish	as in, within the CMS, i can test if a certain domain name is taken or not	07:15
+perlDreamer	no, that's the job of a domain registrar	07:18
+perlDreamer	we manage content	07:19
manishmanish	'k	07:20
manishmanish	brb	07:23
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manishmanish	back	07:45
manishmanish	:)	07:45
manishmanish	ok the million dollar question	07:47
manishmanish	joomla vs webgui	07:47
manishmanish	<i'm evaluating cms's, and leaning towards web gui>	07:47
manishmanish	but want to make sure right tool, right job	07:47
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@apeiron	manishmanish, As per your question, while I'm not going to offer advice one way or the other, I can offer a site that'll hopefully help you decide: cmsmatrix.org	07:52
manishmanish	ok thanks apeiron	07:52
manishmanish	i appreciate that	07:52
@apeiron	manishmanish, I do have to concede that it is running WebGUI underneath (as you can see by looking at the page source) but there's a lot of info there.	07:53
manishmanish	whoah	07:53
manishmanish	'kay buddy, i'm sold	07:56
manishmanish	webgui it is	07:56
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Samus_Aran	sigh. WebGUI is back to being slow, but more importantly it is locked again	07:57
* Samus_Aran goes to find out what's wrong with Spectre this time		07:57
GooeyOfSteel	manishman: make sure you spend time playing with live demos of both	07:59
Samus_Aran	there doesn't seem to be any spectre errors	07:59
Samus_Aran	yet there are locks on various content	07:59
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Samus_Aran	and nowhere to approve/set that content as active	08:00
Samus_Aran	I already committed all changes	08:00
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, Are there any other users that have open version tags?	08:02
manishman	gooey i will	08:02
manishman	anyone here install this on a mac?	08:02
@apeiron	manishman, WebGUI yes.	08:02
Samus_Aran	apeiron: I am setting it up, there are no other users	08:02
manishman	apeiron cool	08:02
@apeiron	manishman, If by Mac you mean OSX. :)	08:02
manishman	yap	08:02
manishman	os x	08:02
manishman	:>	08:02
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, hmm.	08:03
Samus_Aran	when it was locked before, it was because Spectre was broken. but I have fixed the Spectre issue now, no errors about it in the log file	08:04
Samus_Aran	it was working an hour ago from work	08:04
Samus_Aran	now I am connecting from home (outside the LAN) and it's in slow motion and I can't commit changes properly	08:04
Samus_Aran	Permission denied: This Asset is locked for editing under a version tag different from the one that you are using.	08:06
Samus_Aran	blah.	08:06
Samus_Aran	version tags are all empty, and it says: You are currently working under a tag called: None.	08:06
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, And under the "manage version tags" menu you don't see any tags, right?	08:07
@preaction	Pending Version Tags in the right-hand side under the Version Tags icon of the Admin Console	08:07
@preaction	er.. manage pending version tags i think	08:08
Samus_Aran	there are two autotags there. I opened one of them and clicked deleted, but there are still two	08:08
Samus_Aran	I have now deleted everything inside those two autotags	08:10
Samus_Aran	but they are still there	08:10
@preaction	pending means that it's waiting on spectre. did you restart spectre? did it get its data correctly?	08:10
@preaction	if that worked, those assets shouldn't be locked anymore	08:10
Samus_Aran	under the "Manage pending versions"	08:10
Samus_Aran	how do I remove the two autotags ?	08:10
nuba	Samus_Aran: how's spectre's status, from the prompt?	08:10
@preaction	but the pending tags will still be there until spectre gets a hold of them (no big deal really)	08:11
@preaction	if you want to skip spectre in versioning, go to Settings and under Content > Default Workflow choose "Commit Content Immediately". then spectre won't enter the equation at all	08:11
Samus_Aran	# perl spectre.pl --status	08:11
Samus_Aran	Unable to connect to 127.0.0.1:32323: Connection refused	08:11
Samus_Aran	sigh. Spectre was working fine for hours	08:12
Samus_Aran	I've restarted it a few times now, but it won't work anymore	08:12
-!- cap10morgan [n=cap10mor@206-124-6-111.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has quit []		08:13
@preaction	what does cd /data/WebGUI/sbin; perl spectre.pl --run --debug say?	08:15
nuba	launching GooeyOfSteel's wiki watch feature....	08:15
Samus_Aran	preaction: after launching Apache, you mean ?	08:18
@preaction	of course, apache, mysql. shut down spectre from the wreservice.pl script, and then run it using the command above	08:18
@preaction	it will show you a lot of stuff, but the stuff at the beginning is most important	08:18
@preaction	i suspect if it CAN connect, then something's going wrong with yoursite.com?op=spectreGetSiteData	08:19
@preaction	it should return a string of JSON that spectre will parse. if it's broken, it will show up as your home page	08:19
@preaction	sorry to cut in and run, but i've got a very long day ahead of me and i got no sleep last night. good luck	08:20
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: WebGUI Search System - Edited on 2/6/2008 11:30 pm by knowmad http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/webgui-search-system	08:21
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: WebGUI Statistics - Created on 2/6/2008 10:43 pm by knowmad http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/webgui-statistics	08:21
nuba	from now on every wiki update gets posted here	08:21
@apeiron	That may be a lot of traffic.	08:23
nuba	nope, check http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki?func=recentChanges	08:23
nuba	wiki isnt that lively	08:24
nuba	unfortunately	08:24
Samus_Aran	preaction: "perl spectre.pl --run --debug" didn't fail	08:24
@apeiron	So maybe notthat much.	08:24
Samus_Aran	why did you use --run and not --daemon ?	08:24
nuba	now, when people come here for help, and we them for 'please write what youve learned at the wiki', we'll all know if they did it or not	08:25
nuba	we ask them*	08:25
@apeiron	--run Starts Spectre without forking it as a daemon.	08:25
@apeiron	(which means it won't detach from the terminal so you can see errors it gets)	08:25
Samus_Aran	when I used --daemon it was still printing errors to the console	08:28
@apeiron	Arguably, if spectre is dying for some unknown reason and isn't leaving anything in its wake in the logs, then you'll need to see if it's spitting anything to STDERR before going to the big garbage collector in the sky.	08:28
@apeiron	Possibly before it fully dissociated itself?	08:28
Samus_Aran	several seconds later	08:28
Samus_Aran	lemme try again and see	08:28
Samus_Aran	it is working now, it got rid of those empty version tags	08:29
Samus_Aran	is there a proper way to stop it when it is started with --run ?	08:29
Samus_Aran	just Ctrl+C ?	08:29
nuba	well, kill -9 PID does the job too :)	08:30
@apeiron	I'd personally keep it running that way for a while and see if the issue you're experiencing with it dying intermittently comes up again.	08:30
Samus_Aran	what does this mean:	08:30
Samus_Aran	WORKFLOW: Looks like WBQIpZfKZe1kDQZ5TG_6ZQ at priority 23 would be a good workflow instance to run.	08:30
@apeiron	You don't want to start it normally again and then several hours later have it die and then wish you had it in debug mode still. :)	08:30
Samus_Aran	WORKFLOW: Preparing to run workflow instance WBQIpZfKZe1kDQZ5TG_6ZQ.	08:30
Samus_Aran	that popped up when I wasn't doing anything on the site	08:31
Samus_Aran	okay, sounds fine	08:31
Samus_Aran	it is running in GNU Screen, so I can reconnect to the server later if it messes up	08:31
@apeiron	spectre runs some stuff in the background independent of you doing anything on the site, like daily maintenance.	08:31
Samus_Aran	the screen session will log 3000 lines back, though that won't be that long considering it's spitting out 3 lines every 3 seconds	08:31
@apeiron	You can have screen write a hardcopy log of your session.	08:32
Samus_Aran	but the thing I pasted said "workflow instance"	08:32
@apeiron	Yes.	08:32
Samus_Aran	apeiron: I had forgotten all about that	08:32
* Samus_Aran goes to find the command		08:32
@apeiron	^a :log on	08:32
nuba	screen rocks!	08:33
Samus_Aran	I just did ^a :log	08:33
@apeiron	The bits of work that spectre does in the background -- at least part of it -- are coded in modules. These modules are workflow activities. :)	08:33
Samus_Aran	and it started logging	08:33
Samus_Aran	though it didn't let me choose a filename	08:33
Samus_Aran	hopefully I'll find it	08:33
Samus_Aran	hehe	08:33
Samus_Aran	nuba: screen is one of the greatest inventions of all time =)	08:34
GooeyOfSteel	it'll bein the folder you were when you started screen	08:34
Samus_Aran	nuba: I still kick myself for going years without trying it	08:34
+Radix-wrk	second that.. I'm a big screen fan	08:34
@apeiron	Hm, where you started screen?	08:34
Samus_Aran	and that was years ago	08:34
@apeiron	I thought it just put them in your home directory.	08:34
GooeyOfSteel	apeiron: anywhere	08:34
@apeiron	Although I guess I have a tendency to start screen immediately upon logging in so...	08:34
Samus_Aran	I use screen excessively	08:35
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, I don't have logins on this FreeBSD machine outside of screen.	08:35
Samus_Aran	I have all my screens with full English titles and often run out on Ubuntu (it limits to I think 36 screens)	08:35
@apeiron	36? wowser.	08:35
Samus_Aran	I compiled my own on my last distro, but haven't gotten around to doing so on Ubuntu yet	08:35
GooeyOfSteel	i use screen by subjects - mail + im + irc - dev - sysadmin - remote consoles - etc	08:36
@apeiron	If you're using xterms, you may want to look into screenwm.	08:36
nuba	forgot I was in GooeyOfSteel's irssi, not mine :/	08:36
Samus_Aran	my system is on for an average of 2 months at a time (before the nVIDIA driver leaks RAM and makes me crash or reboot)	08:36
@apeiron	(I make the suggestion of combining the two in xterms because of the high res you can get in xterm)	08:36
nuba	did you guys know scren can talk to a serial console directly?	08:36
Samus_Aran	I use one Gnome-Terminal with transparency	08:36
+Radix-wrk	I've been using screen since about 1993 :)	08:36
Samus_Aran	I didn't know screen existed in 1993	08:37
@apeiron	nuba, Interesting to know, though I've never had the need / hardware for it.	08:37
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Connection timed out]		08:37
nuba	its like kermit, only much nicer :)	08:37
+Radix-wrk	screen has been around for AGES	08:37
Samus_Aran	I use ICEWM as my desktop, and I fullscreen all my apps, including the terminal I'm in atm	08:37
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, If you're familiar with vim's split screen modes, you'd find screenwm very comfortable.	08:38
@apeiron	Although it's kinda.. fragile.	08:38
Samus_Aran	desktop 1 for my terminal apps, desktop 2 for Internet apps (web browsers, bittorrent), desktop 4 for word processing, 5 for GIMP	08:38
Samus_Aran	I love ICEWM's keyboard control	08:38
Samus_Aran	better than any other environment I've used	08:39
+Radix-wrk	I used to use screen back when I was mudding at uni - was handy to appear to be working on my C code when instead I was attacking orcs in the mud I played in back then :)	08:39
nuba	heh	08:39
Samus_Aran	I was using DOS in those days	08:39
Samus_Aran	I had Wishbringer, though. fun text adventure	08:39
+Radix-wrk	I got my first unix account in early 1993 - discovered muds shortly afterwards - grades subsequently dropped 20%.. doh	08:40
Samus_Aran	and the original Amulet of Yendor. precursor to Hack and NetHack	08:40
Samus_Aran	Radix-wrk: heh	08:40
+Radix-wrk	friend introduced me to linux around the same time	08:40
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, You mean the original rogue?	08:41
Samus_Aran	I gave up playing NetHack once I found Ancient Domains of Mystery. I still love playing that. I've been playing it off and on for I believe ten years now	08:41
+Radix-wrk	he was running coherent unix around that time	08:41
Samus_Aran	apeiron: I don't know if Amulet of Yendor or Rogue came out first, but the Rogue I played was more sophisticated than AoY	08:42
Samus_Aran	apeiron: Hack came after AoY, and once it became open source and worked on over the net, it turned into NetHack	08:42
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, I fooled around a bit with the original 4.4BSD rogue. Very, very basic. :)	08:42
+Radix-wrk	Sorry.. I seem to have gotten the conversation offtrack with those comments, but it brings back memories :)	08:42
Samus_Aran	apeiron: I think I have that on my Palm Pilot, hehe	08:43
Samus_Aran	apeiron: it is... very bad.	08:43
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, I have everything from the original rogue to recent versions of nethack, slashem, Linley's Dungeon Crawl, and many *bands installed here.	08:43
Samus_Aran	apeiron: have you never tried ADOM, or avoid it because it isn't open source ?	08:43
+Radix-wrk	lol	08:43
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, Tried it. More a fan of the open source games. :)	08:44
+Radix-wrk	telengard ftw	08:44
Samus_Aran	I haven't played NetHack for more than about an hour since I got into ADOM	08:44
Samus_Aran	ADOM has a way better plot, extreme character development and moral development, numerous quests, wilderness maps and way more realism than NetHack	08:45
@apeiron	Roguelike with a plot? No way!	08:45
Samus_Aran	I dislike how NetHack literally had the kitchen sink. all over the place. even has Terminators and Barney	08:45
Samus_Aran	far more realism in ADOM in that regard. monsters all have very nicely written, imaginative descriptions	08:46
Samus_Aran	and if you decide on a career of evil, you will have few friends and the game is way harder	08:47
Samus_Aran	the ending for evil is to become a Chaos God. never come close to that ending, so difficult. but without any spoilers or save-cheating, I beat ADOM as good	08:47
Samus_Aran	took me a few years =p	08:48
Samus_Aran	on a good game of ADOM, my character lasts about a week	08:48
GooeyOfSteel	anyone played a mind forever voyaging?	08:48
Samus_Aran	of playing too much each day	08:48
Samus_Aran	GooeyOfSteel: not I\	08:49
@apeiron	Dammit. There's the inspiration to write my own game again.	08:49
nuba	nowadays, there are good text adventures/interactive fiction for free	08:49
@apeiron	Radix-wrk, See what you started?!	08:49
Samus_Aran	I find that in ADOM, because of the character development and length of gameplay, you get really attached to the character (investing all that time in it), so the fights in ADOM get very epic	08:49
nuba	and there are good apps like Gargoyle now, which makes the experience much better	08:49
Samus_Aran	I was looking at that game engine that encourages people to make their own games. I forget the name, but it may have been "make your own game", heh. some very creative stuff made with it	08:50
Samus_Aran	text adventures and graphical games alike	08:50
+Radix-wrk	lucasarts scumm	08:51
+Radix-wrk	those games rocked :)	08:51
Samus_Aran	lots of scumm players for *nix	08:51
nuba	theres a bunch of languages for writing interactive fiction too	08:51
nuba	for zork and alikes	08:51
+Radix-wrk	yeah, there's a scummvm for almost every platform known to man.. tis great :)	08:51
Samus_Aran	apeiron: ADOM has extreme character development. not just stats (though there are dozens of things to advance), but the moral choices your character makes really expands the game	08:52
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, Huh, interesting.	08:52
Samus_Aran	apeiron: and you get corrupted as time goes by, the closer you get to the source of the chaos that is seeping into the land. corruptions are things like growing hooves, sulphuric acid dripping from your fingers, your brain growing several times larger, etc.	08:53
Samus_Aran	the corruptions are both good and bad, and by the end of the game you are one messed up ugly f---er	08:53
Samus_Aran	you really feel the effect of these corruptions, it makes you want to hurry up and get through the game	08:54
nuba	contemporary interactive fiction, for free http://www.ifwiki.org/index.php/XYZZY_Awards_2006	08:54
Samus_Aran	one of the most annoying is a dark aura. creatures randomly run screaming from you in fear... and shopkeepers come and attack you for chasing away their customers =p	08:54
Samus_Aran	nuba: /me checks it otu	08:54
Samus_Aran	*out	08:54
Samus_Aran	apeiron: the one time I did beat ADOM, my character was such a mess of corruptions that my ending resulted in roughly:	08:57
Samus_Aran	"You make your way home to your village, where you become an outcast. Shunned by your friends and family, you die alone and miserable. But you saved the world."	08:57
@apeiron	heh heh	08:57
@apeiron	And on that note, bedtime for me.	08:57
Samus_Aran	I want to beat it again, with a "happy" ending	08:57
Samus_Aran	there's also an ending for neutral characters, but I have no idea what it even is	08:58
Samus_Aran	apeiron: night	08:58
nuba	GooeyOfSteel: check hq.imaterial.org	09:02
GooeyOfSteel	hq.imaterial.org	09:02
nuba	not working..	09:02
nuba	GooeyOfSteel: check hq.imaterial.org	09:05
GooeyOfSteel	hq.imaterial.org Server: Apache/2.0.59 (Unix) WebGUI/7.5.2 mod_ssl/2.0.59 OpenSSL/0.9.7i mod_apreq2-20051231/2.5.7 mod_perl/2.0.2 Perl/v5.8.8	09:05
nuba	this is from the HTTP headers	09:06
nuba	i remember someone mentioned a while ago about having a bot with that here	09:06
nuba	to help with troubleshooting	09:07
nuba	there it is	09:07
nuba	GooeyOfSteel: check rm -rf /	09:07
GooeyOfSteel	rm-rf /	09:07
Samus_Aran	what exactly is "Manage pending versions." and why does WebGUI no longer just let me commit my changes for the last while all at once ?	09:08
Samus_Aran	there is no commit button on "Manage pending versions", it just shows items	09:08
Samus_Aran	it was automatically adding version tags for me before, now it just has "none" as the version tag	09:09
nuba	GooeyOfSteel: check rm -rf /	09:09
GooeyOfSteel	rm-rf /	09:09
Samus_Aran	GooeyOfSteel: check http://localhost/	09:09
GooeyOfSteel	http//localhost/	09:09
Samus_Aran	GooeyOfSteel: check localhost	09:09
GooeyOfSteel	localhost Server: Apache/2.0.59 (Unix) WebGUI/7.5.2 mod_ssl/2.0.59 OpenSSL/0.9.7i mod_apreq2-20051231/2.5.7 mod_perl/2.0.2 Perl/v5.8.8	09:09
Samus_Aran	GooeyOfSteel: check auk.ca	09:10
GooeyOfSteel	auk.ca Server: Apache/2.2.3 (Ubuntu) PHP/5.2.1 mod_ssl/2.2.3 OpenSSL/0.9.8c	09:10
Samus_Aran	it's nice and fast	09:10
Samus_Aran	my site has gone back to locking everything, and no way to approve it	09:13
Samus_Aran	sigh.	09:13
Samus_Aran	the Spectre is still running fine in debug mode	09:13
GooeyOfSteel	how many workflows you have there?	09:13
GooeyOfSteel	check with perl spectre.pl --status	09:13
Samus_Aran	I don't know what a workflow is	09:13
GooeyOfSteel	well whats the result of "perl spectre.pl --status \| wc -l" ?	09:14
Samus_Aran	Suspended Workflows 1	09:14
Samus_Aran	Waiting Workflows 0	09:14
Samus_Aran	Running Workflows 0	09:14
Samus_Aran	any idea why it would be suspended ?	09:14
Samus_Aran	what are "Manage pending versions" ?	09:15
GooeyOfSteel	i thought you may have been running into branch edits with lots of descendants. that happened with me once, total pain in the ass...	09:15
Samus_Aran	it keeps creating those and locks all my changes with no way to approve them	09:15
GooeyOfSteel	but its not the case	09:15
Samus_Aran	this is a very small site with only me as the user	09:15
Samus_Aran	this is so frustrating. I can't make any changes to the web site	09:16
GooeyOfSteel	i've no idea on what could be it	09:17
+Radix-wrk	GooeyOfSteel: check formsys.com	09:17
GooeyOfSteel	formsys.com Server: Apache/2.0.58 (Unix) WebGUI/7.0.8 mod_ssl/2.0.58 OpenSSL/0.9.7i mod_apreq2-20051231/2.5.7 mod_perl/2.0.2 Perl/v5.8.8	09:17
GooeyOfSteel	maybe a bug, did you consider upgrading to the lates stable?	09:17
+Radix-wrk	GooeyOfSteel: check juga.org	09:17
GooeyOfSteel	juga.org Server: Apache/2.0	09:17
GooeyOfSteel	Radix-wrk: GooeyOfSteel is me when I forget Im in another irssi	09:17
GooeyOfSteel	oops	09:17
nuba	i mean me	09:17
Samus_Aran	I am on the latest stable	09:18
Samus_Aran	it's my first install since 4.x	09:18
+Radix-wrk	GooeyOfSteel: check www.juga.org	09:18
GooeyOfSteel	www.juga.org Server: Apache/2.0	09:18
Samus_Aran	nuba: you should run that irssi as a different user and set a different theme	09:18
nuba	Radix-wrk: oh i thought you asked me to check the site for some interesting content	09:18
nuba	heh	09:18
Samus_Aran	e.g. a red status bar	09:18
+Radix-wrk	I was taking advantage of your check script :)	09:19
nuba	Samus_Aran: its a different screen session, logged as a different user	09:19
+Radix-wrk	interestingly enough - my home setup of webgui doesn't return anything other than apache	09:19
nuba	but yeah a different theme can help	09:19
nuba	Radix-wrk: you on WRE?	09:19
Samus_Aran	GooeyOfSteel: check plainblack.com	09:19
GooeyOfSteel	plainblack.com Server: Apache/2.0	09:19
+Radix-wrk	yeah	09:19
nuba	you can limit the amount of stuff apache spits out at the config	09:20
Samus_Aran	how the hell do I commit "pending versions" ?	09:20
+Radix-wrk	should be using 7.4.20 at home.. compiled wre myself	09:20
nuba	the lesser, the better	09:20
Samus_Aran	there are no commit buttons and they're all locked	09:20
+Radix-wrk	Samus_Aran: it's all done by Spectre	09:20
Samus_Aran	well why isn't spectre in debug mode showing any errors ? =/	09:20
+Radix-wrk	Spectre is the one that processes all commits, workflows, background tasks, etc	09:20
Samus_Aran	it says the workflow is suspended	09:21
+Radix-wrk	nothing in the normal webgui log file?	09:21
* Samus_Aran checks		09:21
Samus_Aran	Asset constructor new() requires an assetId.	09:22
Samus_Aran	Pass in object came back undefined for activity	09:22
Samus_Aran	about ten of those	09:22
+Radix-wrk	Hmm.. what version are you using?	09:22
nuba	'night guys, time to sleep, 5am already	09:23
Samus_Aran	latest stable as of Thursday	09:23
+Radix-wrk	nite nuba	09:23
Samus_Aran	manual install, not the WRE	09:24
Samus_Aran	it works fine for hours, then does odd things	09:24
+Radix-wrk	I used to get some wierd errors back before I started to use the WRE. Ones that noone else could reproduce :( Was one of the main reasons I ended up switching to the WRE.	09:25
+Radix-wrk	Some debian perl module I'd apt-getted had was causing mysterious things to happen that the WRE and other systems weren't getting I suspect.	09:26
Samus_Aran	there are thousands of systems out there running Apache, MySQL, Perl, PHP, etc. ... the WRE seems like such a bad idea	09:26
+Radix-wrk	not at all	09:26
Samus_Aran	effort should be put into a proper installer	09:26
Samus_Aran	not forcing people to give up all their services	09:26
+Radix-wrk	The WRE isn't perfect, but it's not hard to integrate it with other setups	09:27
Samus_Aran	running two copies of all the servers on the system is very inefficient	09:27
+Radix-wrk	And you can literally install a machine from scratch and have the wre up and running in under an hour.	09:27
Samus_Aran	and when the machine already exists, ...	09:28
Samus_Aran	it has a dozen web sites on it already	09:28
Samus_Aran	using the MySQL database	09:28
+Radix-wrk	yeah, well there's no easy way to integrate those setups	09:28
Samus_Aran	and that's my point, it should be easy	09:28
Samus_Aran	there's no reason the script can't just check the versions of the required components and let people know if their versions aren't okay	09:28
Samus_Aran	it already does this, but it is very fragile outside of the WRE	09:29
+Radix-wrk	well I think the main problem is the lack of developers outside plainblack working on webgui	09:29
+Radix-wrk	plainblack is keen to add more power and flexibility in webgui	09:30
Samus_Aran	the silly organisation I work for bought a very expensive rack mount server (which is sitting on a wood shelf). perhaps I should just run WebGUI in a virtual machine	09:30
+Radix-wrk	I do	09:30
+Radix-wrk	well.. not my production system, but I have a couple of virtual machine images I use for testing	09:31
Samus_Aran	seems a pain, though. having two distros to maintain, and CPU/RAM inefficient	09:31
+Radix-wrk	Feel free to help out if you can - we need more people working on webgui and improving it	09:31
Samus_Aran	how can I deal with the suspended workflow ?	09:31
Samus_Aran	"Last State: error"	09:31
+Radix-wrk	can you force it to run?	09:32
Samus_Aran	I don't know how	09:32
Samus_Aran	I've restarted Spectre but it had no effect	09:32
Samus_Aran	I'll try restarting Apache	09:32
+Radix-wrk	I'm not as familiar with the latest versions, but you should see a workflows tab in webgui	09:32
+Radix-wrk	and can see workflows that are stuck there and restart them manually	09:33
Samus_Aran	that's only in the WRE, isn't it ?	09:33
+Radix-wrk	no	09:33
Samus_Aran	okay	09:33