WebGUI irc logs from: 2008-02.log

--- Log opened Sun Feb 10 21:48:41 2008
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perlmonkey2	Oh man....this sucks. I deleted a webgui page that another webgui page was grabbing an RSS feed from. Now a few hours later the site is crashed and won't come back up. Mysql won't restart and modproxy.error.log is saying error reading status line from remote server	01:31
perlmonkey2	Where does the wre write the mysql error logs to, I don't see them in var/log	01:32
perlmonkey2	What does this mean when I try to manually start mysql? Starting MySQL ERROR! Couldn't find MySQL manager or server	01:36
@preaction	are you running the right environment?	01:39
perlmonkey2	network issues	01:46
* perlmonkey2 really really really wishes his client would have went with PB hosting.		01:46
perlmonkey2	although if you could point me at anything that could help me with WRE backups, I'd appreciate it. The wiki search didn't return anything.	01:47
@preaction	you mean automatic backups using wre/sbin/backup.pl?	01:50
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perlmonkey2	preaction: yes. The backup users doesn't have permissions, and I can't connect to the wre mysql with the mysql CL client.	02:27
@preaction	so you have a backup user, and in that user's cron you source in the WRE's environment and then run backup.pl?	02:29
@preaction	i think you have to do it as root probably	02:29
perlmonkey2	preaction: I am running the wre sbin/backup.pl as root, but the error is that the backup mysql user doesn't have permissions.	02:30
perlmonkey2	Couldn't connect to MySQL because DBI connect('test;host=localhost;port=3306','backup',...) failed: Access denied for user 'backup'@'localhost' (using password: YES) at /data/wre/lib/WRE/Mysql.pm line 93	02:30
perlmonkey2	at ./backup.pl line 79	02:30
@preaction	oh. you might need to set up that user, or use the root user	02:30
perlmonkey2	I would, but I can not connect to the mysql server with the mysql client.	02:30
perlmonkey2	Is there something I need to set up to connect to the wre instance of mysqld?	02:31
@preaction	not that i know of	02:31
@preaction	are you getting a permissions denied using the cli client too?	02:31
perlmonkey2	no, just	02:32
perlmonkey2	[root@li6-7 etc]# mysql -uwebgui -p	02:32
perlmonkey2	Enter password:	02:32
perlmonkey2	ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock' (2)	02:32
@preaction	you aren't using the right environment	02:32
perlmonkey2	DOH!	02:32
perlmonkey2	arg!	02:32
perlmonkey2	dumb, stupid perlmonkey2	02:33
perlmonkey2	I beg forgiveness for wasting your time.	02:33
@preaction	i need someone who isn't a mac fanboi to give an opinion on a Mac Mini	02:33
@preaction	it's about $1050 to get the one I want, tricked out with power, but i could probably fix my newly-broken computer for a tenth of that	02:34
@preaction	i'm just tired of dealing with computer hardware	02:34
perlmonkey2	A Mac Mini sounds cool	02:35
@preaction	1) Web / Internet 2) DVD / Music 3) Emulators 4) BitTorrent. the only problem is 4 requires massive amounts of hard disk space, which the mini don't have	02:35
@preaction	those are the 4 things my tv computer currently does	02:35
@preaction	i think i should move number 4 out to another, dedicated system	02:35
@preaction	i've got a computer that's been sitting dead for at least 4 months now, i could resurrect it with the parts from the TV computer	02:36
perlmonkey2	the mac mini's drive not only is small but it is slow.... at 5400 rpm laptop drive.	02:37
@preaction	i don't think the mini's designed with high performance in mind	02:38
@preaction	i think it's single-task oriented	02:38
@preaction	a mac pro would do the job, but those are even more expensive	02:38
perlmonkey2	I have a Q6600 4 GB DDR667, 350GB 7200 SATA2, with case for $700.	02:40
@preaction	you're selling?	02:40
perlmonkey2	no	02:40
perlmonkey2	hah	02:40
perlmonkey2	That's what I built it for	02:41
perlmonkey2	It is my main desktop/workstation	02:41
@preaction	i think i built my TV computer for about that. with twice the storage and half the RAM. $150 on the GFX card itself.	02:41
perlmonkey2	and that was like last August...things should be cheaper.	02:41
@preaction	that's just it though, building computers is boring. maintaining hardware is boring	02:42
@preaction	and frustrating	02:42
perlmonkey2	I agree	02:42
@preaction	just out of the blue the TV computer (selene) starts a spontaneous reboot cycle	02:42
perlmonkey2	but a lot cheaper	02:42
perlmonkey2	suck	02:42
@preaction	i'm willing to bet it's due to the cooling system dying	02:42
perlmonkey2	btb, where does the wre write the mysql logs too. It still wont' start up.	02:42
@preaction	or the power supply dying	02:42
perlmonkey2	power is likely	02:43
@preaction	should be /data/wre/var/mysqldata/something.err	02:43
perlmonkey2	cooling is easy to check....does it reboot right afte ryou start it, or after it is working.	02:43
@preaction	after it's working for a while, but hasn't finished the initial load. OS gets booted, XP starts and gets into explorer, then before it's done loading components and drivers and such, it bombs	02:44
@preaction	then it either gets a little less further next time, or just sits there spinning	02:44
perlmonkey2	sounds like power	02:44
@preaction	and the case i have under the TV has a special, tiny power supply... gotta find one of thems...	02:45
perlmonkey2	Hmm, ./wreservice.pl --start mysql	02:45
perlmonkey2	Start MySQL: FAILED!	02:45
perlmonkey2	Yet nothing in the mysql.err logs	02:45
@preaction	not that, using mysqld_safe or something	02:45
@preaction	that wreservice.pl script hides a lot of things	02:46
perlmonkey2	k, I'll try it directly	02:46
@preaction	might be in a log though, /data/wre/var/logs somewhere perhaps	02:46
perlmonkey2	No, nothing in the logs.	02:47
perlmonkey2	I'm running tail -f var/logs/*	02:47
perlmonkey2	[root@li6-7 mysql]# ./mysql.server start	02:47
perlmonkey2	Starting MySQL ERROR! Couldn't find MySQL manager or server	02:47
@preaction	mysql.server is a shell script, right?	02:50
perlmonkey2	I think it is the actual mysql binary...I'll open it	02:50
perlmonkey2	oh, sheel	02:50
perlmonkey2	wife is sick...brb	02:51
perlmonkey2	I bet this is because I changed the company name .... It went from working fine to a few hours later, not working and no one did anything.	03:01
@preaction	doesn't sound like that would screw things up	03:02
perlmonkey2	But mysql keeps failing to start and there is nothing in the logs	03:03
@preaction	it says something like "Couldn't find MySQL manager or server", which means that the shell script doesn't know where to look for the mysqld	03:04
perlmonkey2	but I've ran the setenv script	03:04
perlmonkey2	I can see the LD env params	03:05
@preaction	right, i had this happen to me once, and i don't remember how i fixed it or what was actually wrong	03:05
perlmonkey2	wow, this really sucks...I've got a client wondering what happened to his site.	03:05
@preaction	i just remember i looked in that script and echoed out the paths the script got	03:06
perlmonkey2	I guess I'll tell him he shoul dhave wnet with PB	03:06
perlmonkey2	k	03:06
perlmonkey2	I'll try that.	03:06
@preaction	did you try running /data/wre/prereqs/bin/mysqld_safe ?	03:06
perlmonkey2	not yet	03:09
perlmonkey2	something is horribly wrong.....	03:09
@preaction	that's the shell script i was talking about, not the other thing	03:09
perlmonkey2	okay, finally got the error output: 080210 20:12:42 [ERROR] /data/wre/prereqs/libexec/mysqld: Can't create/write to file '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.pid' (Errcode: 2)	03:13
perlmonkey2	080210 20:12:42 [ERROR] Can't start server: can't create PID file: No such file or directory	03:13
perlmonkey2	should I create a mysqld directory in /var/run?	03:13
perlmonkey2	what has happened?	03:14
@preaction	it shouldn't be trying to do that. you can specify on the command-line what you want the pid file to be i think. somewhere in that shell script is the key	03:14
perlmonkey2	But hwo would the my.cnf file be changed?	03:15
@preaction	it wasn't. that script can override the my.cnf file	03:15
perlmonkey2	wait a second.....there shouldn't be a my.cnf in /etc/	03:15
@preaction	no, there shouldn't	03:16
@preaction	it shouldn't be looking for one either. that script shouldn't have any reference to it	03:16
perlmonkey2	looks like my clients two bit hoster does one of those "reimages" where htey "auto-fix" anything tha tisn't normal.	03:16
perlmonkey2	removing the /etc/my.cnf fixed it.	03:17
@preaction	nice	03:17
perlmonkey2	the wre install isntructions say to copy it to .old	03:17
perlmonkey2	wow.....maybe it isn't too late for me to get them to move to PB.	03:17
@preaction	we have VPS at reasonable rates	03:18
perlmonkey2	the client didn't go with PB because of disk.	03:22
perlmonkey2	But if their two bit hoster can't stop playing with the os config files, it wont' matter how much disk they have.	03:23
perlmonkey2	well this is no good, the root password for mysql isn't working, now that i can connect.	03:34
@preaction	uhoh	03:34
-!- Samus_Aran [n=ILL@about/linux/supportwhirlwind/SamusAran] has joined #WebGUI		03:36
perlmonkey2	I can reset it, but how did it get changed :D	03:36
Samus_Aran	does anyone know why WebGUI might be running in ultra slow motion ? it is taking an average 5 to 10 seconds to load a page, on an unloaded server with tons of RAM	03:37
Samus_Aran	the spectre perl daemon keeps on ending up with hundreds of MiB of RAM used. and wait state is the main thing that seems to be shooting up in top	03:37
Samus_Aran	the apache processes are using little CPU themselves	03:37
Samus_Aran	I am using the latest stable release. I haven't used WebGUI since version 4.x, which was lightning fast even on an old system, so I'm not too sure what's going on now	03:38
perlmonkey2	hey, I'm having that exact same problem	03:39
perlmonkey2	Does the wre phone home and autoupdate?	03:39
Samus_Aran	perlmonkey2: hm	03:39
Samus_Aran	what is a wre ?	03:40
perlmonkey2	webgui runtime environment	03:41
Samus_Aran	ah. I don't know much about the WRE, as I installed manually. the server has other web sites and databases on it, so I can't use the WRE	03:41
+Radix-wrk	Samus_Aran: I'd highly recommend the wre if you want a fast/optimised webgui setup these days	03:41
Samus_Aran	Radix-wrk: we have only one server, and it already runs database and web content. not sure how the WRE could be usable in such a situation	03:42
perlmonkey2	Radix-wrk: I'm on my second server meltdown using the wre....never had any problems with source.	03:43
Samus_Aran	does anyone know if this ultra sluggy issue is just with the most recent release, or if it has been a problem for people for a while ? (or is it just me)	03:43
+Radix-wrk	Fair enough - though you may want to look at some of the settings for the wre and how it's set up to get an idea of how to optimise things	03:43
perlmonkey2	I can't log into the database with root, even though I reset the password	03:43
perlmonkey2	or at least think I did.	03:43
Samus_Aran	I followed the guide more or less exactly. it is up and running without visible errors	03:43
Samus_Aran	but the spectre script is using huge amounts of RAM, which doesn't seem normal to me. and there is apparently heavy disk writing, as the IO wait time goes up to 60% for many seconds after I do something on the WebGUI site	03:44
Samus_Aran	I don't mind up or downgrading if it might help	03:45
@preaction	what is spectre spinning its gears on?	03:45
Samus_Aran	I have no content yet ... but it took me ten minutes just to delete a couple items off the menus. =/	03:45
@preaction	if you turn off spectre, does the site respond faster?	03:45
Samus_Aran	preaction: I thought spectre was required for it to run. or is it only required for versioning ? I will most likely not be using versioning on this site, just server backups	03:46
Samus_Aran	I will try closing spectre	03:46
@preaction	spectre is required for executing workflows and scheduled tasks (which spawn workflows). it's the offline execution engine.	03:46
@preaction	things will work without it, but some things won't happen unless it's running	03:46
@preaction	like sending mail	03:46
@preaction	or committing version tags	03:46
Samus_Aran	well, the contact form needs to e-mail the message	03:47
Samus_Aran	does that use spectre ?	03:47
@preaction	even if you're not using versioning, you may need spectre (if your default workflow is not "Commit Content Immediately")	03:47
@preaction	yes	03:47
@preaction	we're trying to narrow down the list of possible causes here	03:47
@preaction	so we turn off spectre, and then try loading pages	03:47
@preaction	what kind of system are you running this on? 1Ghz / 1Gig are about the minimum i would attempt to run WebGUI on these days	03:48
Samus_Aran	I did "perl spectre.pl --shutdown" and continued to use the web pages. it is still the same slow speed	03:48
Samus_Aran	dual 1.6Ghz, 1GiB RAM	03:48
@preaction	okay. how's vmstat look? are we swapping in and/or out?	03:49
Samus_Aran	preaction: that is a pretty sad minimum requirement. sigh. I guess I should have researched before trying WebGUI 7.x	03:49
@preaction	why? webgui is huge. and in order to get quicker responses it does a lot of caching, both on-disk and in-memory	03:50
Samus_Aran	the Linux kernel caches things very well, caching by the app will only end up swapping to disk	03:50
@preaction	it caches mysql queries? perl object instanciation?	03:51
Samus_Aran	files	03:51
Samus_Aran	other PHP code that uses databases on this system is instantaneous. page loads in under .1 second	03:51
Samus_Aran	minimum 5 seconds on WeGUI currently, with an average of around 8 seconds	03:51
Samus_Aran	sometimes 20-30	03:52
@preaction	you can't compare "other PHP code that uses databases" to "WebGUI". they're entirely different beasts	03:52
Samus_Aran	also spectre is often using up 8-10% CPU when no page requests are going on, that seems quite excessive for a background monitoring daemon	03:52
@preaction	WebGUI has an average of 30 db reads and 1 write per request	03:53
@preaction	it's not a monitoring daemon, it's an offline execution daemon	03:53
Samus_Aran	so long as the database is left open, that would still be nearly instantaneous on this system	03:53
@preaction	it runs things that would cause browsers to time-out or that users don't want to see running	03:53
@preaction	which is why we're troubleshooting, no?	03:53
Samus_Aran	which way do you want me to check the vmstat you asked about ?	03:54
@preaction	i just wanted to see if your box was swapping. that could cause significant delays and IO wait. are you running webgui in its own apache or alongside mod_php and others?	03:55
@preaction	you're using prefork right?	03:55
Samus_Aran	preaction: (regarding the multiple database queries, one of the other sites here sometimes has dozens of database queries per hit as well, always under half a second)	03:56
Samus_Aran	apache you mean ?	03:56
Samus_Aran	apache2-mpm-prefork is already the newest version.	03:57
Samus_Aran	that's what is on there now	03:57
Samus_Aran	the server is running Ubuntu 6.06 LTS	03:57
Samus_Aran	Apache/2.0.55	03:57
@preaction	okay. now, you're using PerlRequire /data/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl right?	03:57
@preaction	you're also using Apache2::Reload to make sure the apache processes don't get out of control, right?	03:59
Samus_Aran	http://rafb.net/p/iJzHcV35.txt << this is the virtual host	03:59
Samus_Aran	(I replaced the domain name with "foo")	03:59
@preaction	er.. sizelimit, right. not reload	04:00
Samus_Aran	how would I check about Apache2::Reload ?	04:00
@preaction	don't worry about it, devs would use it	04:00
@preaction	bad for production servers	04:00
@preaction	uhm... WebguiRoot is /data/WebGUI but PerlRequire /var/www/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl ? where is WebGUI really?	04:01
@preaction	how many megs are these apache processes taking up? shouldn't be any more than 80 or 90M	04:01
Samus_Aran	WebGUI is installed to /var/www/WebGUI. for each place the documentation mentioned a path in a file, I updated it accordingly	04:01
Samus_Aran	Apache2::Reload is up to date (0.09).	04:02
Samus_Aran	(from cpan	04:02
Samus_Aran	)	04:02
@preaction	so why PerlSetVar WebguiRoot /data/WebGUI ?	04:02
Samus_Aran	http://rafb.net/p/mh7NHq38.txt << apache processes	04:03
Samus_Aran	it is ? I redid the virtual host at some point after I messed things up, I may have missed it the second time. goes to look	04:03
Samus_Aran	how could it run without that being set ?	04:04
Samus_Aran	I have adjusted it now, restarting apache	04:04
Samus_Aran	I have noticed since restarting Apache that the initial apache process, the one run by root that I assume spawns the others, is sitting there using CPU (3-10% average)	04:11
Samus_Aran	hm	04:11
Samus_Aran	no change in page loading/editing speed	04:12
@preaction	i would say the problem is probably that since WebGUI isn't the only thing being done by that apache, it doesn't keep a lot of the WebGUI stuff in-memory (frees space to be used to load other scripts)	04:14
@preaction	is this a production box? could you test with only webgui vhost on?	04:14
@preaction	i run the WRE, so i got no clue. but you could run the WRE's mod_perl instance behind your own apache running mod_proxy (much like the WRE does)	04:14
Samus_Aran	it is a production box, however the organisation is not large, and it only really needs to be functional during weekdays	04:15
+Radix-wrk	I use the wre, but have a separate apache install for php websites and use the wre's modproxy to do the work	04:15
Samus_Aran	so I could try something else right now	04:15
+Radix-wrk	so mod_perl for webgui is on port 81, mod_php on port 82, etc	04:16
+Radix-wrk	does the webgui admin guide have much info on tuning apache/mod_proxy?	04:17
@apeiron	Radix-wrk, So the mod_proxy server receives all the requests on 80, and then forwards internally to 81 or 82, etc., es?	04:17
@apeiron	s/es/yes/	04:17
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Samus_Aran	I am willing to try the WRE in that way. didn't know it could co-exist with a regular Apache/PHP/Perl/MySQL setup	04:19
@preaction	yeah. the WRE is two apache instances: one mod_proxy, one mod_perl. i've had a few people forgoe the mod	04:20
@preaction	_proxy one and just run the mod_perl one	04:20
+Radix-wrk	the biggest issue is more with mysql - as it won't co-exist with another instance	04:24
+Radix-wrk	I switched distro's mysql databases over to the wre one myself, but you can do it the other way if you want too	04:25
+Radix-wrk	that's the only hassle with co-existance really though	04:25
@preaction	yeah, shouldn't matter if you do or do not use the wre's mysql really	04:26
@preaction	hell. you might be able to get by just by stealing the modperl.conf file out of the WRE and running it with your own apache	04:26
@preaction	whether it's the WRE's apache or not shouldn't matter. just give webgui its own dedicated bit of apache + memory (2 processes perhaps)	04:27
+Radix-wrk	I run my wre on a virtual server with 256mb ram myself - seems to run fine	04:28
@preaction	how much cache does mysql have? 300M+?	04:28
+Radix-wrk	I did tweak the mysql settings down a bit to compensate, but juga.biz is still pretty fast	04:28
+Radix-wrk	I forget what I actually changed tho :)	04:29
+Radix-wrk	http://webgui.pastebin.com/m715140a5 - that's a copy of my my.cnf file with 256MB ram	04:33
Samus_Aran	okay. I was away a bit, back now.	04:49
Samus_Aran	preaction: how do you think I should proceed at this point ?	04:49
Samus_Aran	trying a manual install of the latest beta or using the WRE with my existing setup, or ?	04:49
@preaction	see how well webgui runs when it's the only thing on the apache server, probably by making a seperate apache instance that only runs WebGUI (on a different port)	04:50
Samus_Aran	I don't mind turning off Apache/MySQL/etc. for testing	04:50
@preaction	well, it's not spectre, you could probably turn that back on	04:51
Samus_Aran	will try the WRE in /data/WebGUI then	04:51
@preaction	wait, what?	04:51
Samus_Aran	mm ?	04:52
Samus_Aran	I was going to turn off MySQL and Apache and try the WRE by itself, to check perormance	04:52
Samus_Aran	*performance	04:52
@preaction	ok	04:52
Samus_Aran	is wre-0.8.1-ubuntu-6_server-ia32.tar.gz the correct file ?	04:54
@preaction	probably. are you running a 32-bit cpu?	04:54
Samus_Aran	yes	04:54
Samus_Aran	the install notes have conflicting information about the directory structure underneath /data	05:04
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Samus_Aran	the non-symlink instructions will end up with /data/wre and the symlink instructions will give you /data/wre/wre	05:04
Samus_Aran	I assume with only one "wre" is the correct structure	05:04
Samus_Aran	"Create your DNS entries (or add entries to /etc/hosts) for the sites you will be using, including the AWStats site."	05:06
Samus_Aran	what is AWStats ?	05:06
@preaction	it's an apache log analyzer	05:07
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Samus_Aran	preaction: I was away, back to trying out the WRE now. I thought it came with its own MySQL ? it is saying when going through the web based installer that it couldn't connect to a MySQL server	06:58
Samus_Aran	Couldn't connect to MySQL because DBI connect('test;host=localhost;port=3306','root',...) failed	06:59
Samus_Aran	I shut down MySQL and Apache, and renamed the my.conf file, prior to running this installer	06:59
@preaction	it does, did you start it? are you running the right environment? before working with the WRE stuff you need to source in ". /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment.sh"	06:59
@preaction	(the space between the . and / is important)	07:00
Samus_Aran	I did "source setenvironment.sh" prior to starting the web installer	07:01
Samus_Aran	which should be the same as .	07:02
@preaction	what does wreservice.pl --ping mysql say?	07:02
Samus_Aran	I have both /data/WebGUI and /data/wre, is that correct ?	07:04
Samus_Aran	Ping MySQL: FAILED!	07:05
@preaction	that means the wre's mysql isn't up or can't be reached	07:06
Samus_Aran	I would like to find out why it can't start it	07:07
@preaction	try doing "mysqld_safe"	07:07
Samus_Aran	I didn't change any of the MySQL settings other than the passwort	07:07
Samus_Aran	mysqld_safe from where ?	07:07
Samus_Aran	nevermind, it's in the path after the source environment thing	07:09
Samus_Aran	anyhow, I went back to the other screen, and it has error messages about setting up MySQL. looking over them now	07:09
Samus_Aran	ERROR: 1 Can't create/write to file '/data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql/db.MYI' (Errcode: 13)	07:10
Samus_Aran	080210 20:57:49 [ERROR] Aborting	07:10
Samus_Aran	not sure why it couldn't create it	07:10
Samus_Aran	I ran the script as root	07:10
@preaction	does mysqldata/mysql exist?	07:11
Samus_Aran	drwx------ 2 webgui root 4.0K 2008-02-10 20:57 /data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql/	07:11
Samus_Aran	odd permissions, root is the group, but it should ignore the "no write permission"	07:12
Samus_Aran	any suggestions ?	07:14
Samus_Aran	When I run mysqld_safe I get the following:	07:20
Samus_Aran	Starting mysqld daemon with databases from /data/wre/var/mysqldata	07:20
Samus_Aran	STOPPING server from pid file /data/wre/var/mysqldata/my_hostname.pid	07:20
Samus_Aran	080210 21:19:37 mysqld ended	07:20
Samus_Aran	and there are no MySQL processes running	07:20
Samus_Aran	I found an error log file with this in it: [ERROR] Can't start server : Bind on unix socket: Permission denied	07:21
@preaction	check in /var/mysqldata/*.err	07:21
Samus_Aran	[ERROR] Do you already have another mysqld server running on socket: /data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql.sock ?	07:22
Samus_Aran	that's from that error file you mentioned	07:22
Samus_Aran	there are no processes with "my" in it	07:22
Samus_Aran	in the command name, I mean	07:22
Samus_Aran	I didn't get an answer from you above about the structure of /data. is there supposed to be /data/wre or /data/wre/wre ? and should there be a /data/WebGUI directory as well ?	07:24
Samus_Aran	the documentation has errors in it regarding this	07:24
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@preaction_	it should be /data/wre and /data/WebGUI. no /data/wre/wre	07:28
Samus_Aran	is there some way to track down why it thinks that it has already started its MySQL server ?	07:30
Samus_Aran	looked through the running processes and see the previous spectre.pl still running. closed that now	07:32
Samus_Aran	made no difference	07:33
Samus_Aran	I just realised that /data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql.sock does not exist	07:35
Samus_Aran	it's not that something else is using it, it was just never created	07:35
* Samus_Aran sighs		07:37
Samus_Aran	starting over	07:39
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Samus_Aran	the web installer asks for a MySQL username and password. I changed the password, and then it doesn't work. it works with the default password	07:45
Samus_Aran	why does it give you the option to change the password if it is not going to be using it ?	07:46
@preaction_	the error that happened about starting the server probably caused the wreconsole to not update the password	07:46
@preaction_	it has to be able to start the mysqld in order to change the password	07:46
Samus_Aran	but the only change I made was this time not changing the password -- and then MySQL started fine	07:47
@preaction_	mysql doesn't need a password to start	07:47
@preaction_	who knows what happened, the point is you could change that password now if you wanted to	07:48
Samus_Aran	there is nowhere in the web interface that I see to change the password, only the setup	07:52
Samus_Aran	when I click on Spectre in the list of services tab, it says starting, and then goes back to a [Start] button	07:55
Samus_Aran	no errors	07:55
Samus_Aran	the other services started	07:55
Samus_Aran	sorry, there was an error, just couldn't see it, it was so small: "Spectre did not start successfully.	07:56
Samus_Aran	"	07:56
Samus_Aran	"to_json" is not exported by the JSON module	07:56
Samus_Aran	Can't continue after import errors at ../lib/Spectre/Cron.pm line 22	07:56
Samus_Aran	sigh. I can't add a site using the web interface. I don't know the MySQL password	07:59
Samus_Aran	I thought it was qwe123	07:59
Samus_Aran	123qwe ...	08:03
Samus_Aran	anyhow, the WRE's Spectre is broken	08:08
Samus_Aran	it has issues with its own Perl modules	08:08
Samus_Aran	assuming that the JSON thing is part of the WRE	08:08
Samus_Aran	when I try to connect to the new WebGUI site I get: Bad Gateway - The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.	08:09
+Radix-wrk	the mysql password is specified when you first installed the wre	08:13
Samus_Aran	I know, but it wouldn't let me change it, so I used the default, which I didn't remember	08:13
Samus_Aran	this is an absolute nightmare to set up compared to WebGUI 4.x	08:14
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+Radix-wrk	agreed - though admittedly it's changed hugely since version 4 too	08:14
Samus_Aran	all of the UI changes I have seen thus far I find to be far worse	08:14
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+Radix-wrk	that said.. I've had no problems installing a wre system out of the box within 10 minutes in the past	08:14
Samus_Aran	on the old versions it was clear to a new user where to go to get things done	08:15
Samus_Aran	now the menus are utterly confusing	08:15
Samus_Aran	something as simple as adding a content item to a page is confusing	08:15
+Radix-wrk	why?	08:15
+Radix-wrk	it's pretty easy.. click new content on the left, and select what object you want	08:15
Samus_Aran	the UI says it is adding a new page when you do that	08:16
+Radix-wrk	everything is a "page" in webgui	08:16
+Radix-wrk	every object has it's own url	08:17
preaction__	version 5 added the "asset" system, no?	08:17
preaction__	or was it 6.x series?	08:17
preaction__	there have been so many changes, Samus_Aran, you may as well treat it as an entirely different system	08:17
Samus_Aran	I'm talking about a section on a page. the things you drag around	08:17
preaction__	they are pages too	08:18
preaction__	they have urls	08:18
Samus_Aran	a column or section	08:18
preaction__	you can go to just them	08:18
Samus_Aran	well that is extremely messed up	08:18
preaction__	and that is an extremely obtuse opinion	08:18
+Radix-wrk	Actually I tend to agree there to a certain extent.. I wish pages were the only thing that had urls	08:18
+Radix-wrk	but that said, it's never really bothered me	08:19
Samus_Aran	it is entirely counter-intuitive	08:19
preaction__	only container assets?	08:19
+Radix-wrk	I just don't care what urls objects have, as long as my pages have the urls I want	08:19
preaction__	so message boards, page layouts, and wikis	08:19
+Radix-wrk	they're the only ones that appear in navigation items anyway	08:19
preaction__	but how do you get to a wiki page then?	08:19
preaction__	myWikiUrl?node=something?	08:19
preaction__	that's ugly	08:20
preaction__	how do you get to a forum post? myMessageBoard?collab=id;thread=id;post=id?	08:20
preaction__	that's better than myMessageBoard/collab/thread/post?	08:20
+Radix-wrk	I think of pages, forums, etc as containers	08:20
preaction__	what if i think of a thread as a container? do i lose out?	08:21
preaction__	is a calendar a container or can their event be containers too?	08:21
+Radix-wrk	well I find it all pretty confusing actually :)	08:21
preaction__	i agree it can be counter-intuitive, even backwards, but everything in the system has a URL, no matter what	08:22
preaction__	would you prefer a query string or something friendly?	08:22
preaction__	bonus: we don't use mod_rewrite to do it	08:22
Samus_Aran	I am considering going back to 4.x. It worked, was fast and did the things I needed it to do	08:23
preaction__	4.x even still works as a CGI, instead of mod_perl	08:24
+Radix-wrk	Samus_Aran: that's a shame - there's a lot to love in the new versions imho	08:24
+Radix-wrk	version control for one	08:25
+Radix-wrk	depends what you're after though I guess	08:25
Samus_Aran	version control is another example of how confusing WebGUI 7.xi s	08:30
Samus_Aran	*7.x is	08:30
Samus_Aran	I tried to use it and immediately the whole site was destroyed	08:30
Samus_Aran	didn't even have a template	08:30
preaction__	buy the content manager's guide perhaps?	08:30
Samus_Aran	I shouldn't have to purchase a book to use an open source product. WebGUI 4.x was easy to use with the help at the time	08:31
preaction__	Samus_Aran, then keep pushing on, eventually you'll understand it	08:31
Samus_Aran	and I would have to justify the book purchase and it would take at least a week	08:31
preaction__	you don't need to purchase the book, it just makes it easier	08:31
Samus_Aran	I don't have a week to sit on my hands	08:31
Samus_Aran	I would find a versioning system the same as a Wiki quite useful. WebGUI seems to use some other strange system	08:33
Samus_Aran	plus there is no description of how to use it from the actual page. I clicked on the first item in the list and it promptly destroyed the whole WebGUI install	08:34
preaction__	no, it didn't. unless you clicked a big red X	08:35
Samus_Aran	I believe it reverted to a pre-install state	08:35
Samus_Aran	I was trying to reset some changes I had done, to see how it worked	08:36
preaction__	and i don't believe you. any deleting of a version tag or any content pops up a javascript alert box saying "Are you sure?"	08:36
Samus_Aran	but it erased everything, including the template	08:36
Samus_Aran	the site wasjust white after that	08:36
Samus_Aran	*was jsut	08:36
Samus_Aran	*just	08:36
preaction__	so you had rollback version tag?	08:36
preaction__	the current one, the Autotag for Admin?	08:36
Samus_Aran	there was one item in a list, I clicked on rollback, assuming it would rollback to the base-install time	08:36
Samus_Aran	or whatever the feature is that I thought was a rollback	08:37
preaction__	what list? what item? under the Version Tags icon of the Admin Console?	08:37
Samus_Aran	I am not sure from my memory	08:37
Samus_Aran	I can't even load the WRE version of WebGUI	08:37
Samus_Aran	Bad Gateway	08:37
preaction__	the white page was probably the URL you were on disappearing, since you deleted the content	08:37
Samus_Aran	The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.	08:37
Samus_Aran	it still had a basic menu, but there was no longer any template	08:38
preaction__	means the proxied server isn't running. the proxy can't reach the server it's trying to reach	08:38
preaction__	so there was a menu on the left side with a list of a bunch of stuff, right?	08:38
preaction__	plus maybe a list in the larger area on the right perhaps?	08:38
Samus_Aran	I am talking about clicking on something about versioning on the left administrator menu, then on the right page that loads, choosing the only version listed, then telling it to use that one	08:39
Samus_Aran	and it proceeding (after the JS warning) to erase everything	08:39
Samus_Aran	what sort of performance can be expected from a WebGUI install that is actually working properly ?	08:40
Samus_Aran	on WebGUI 4.x on a crappy old computer running Debian where I was testing it, it ran extremely fast with 8-10 users	08:41
preaction__	we run 50-60 webgui sites on 2x2.4Ghz / 4G servers running CentOS 5	08:41
preaction__	we run servers with 30,000+ registered users on one of those boxes, dedicated	08:41
Samus_Aran	this was back in 2002 or 2001 I think. whenever 4.x was around	08:41
preaction__	load stays less than 0.5, response times for a 300kB page are around 10 seconds	08:42
+Radix-wrk	you seen demo.plainblack.com?	08:42
Samus_Aran	are you saying you dedicate a dual 2.4Ghz system to 1 site ? or 50-60 sites ?	08:42
Samus_Aran	yes, I have used the demo	08:42
+Radix-wrk	50-60 sites	08:42
preaction__	we've got one box with 80 sites, and that stays at about 2 load. we dont' monitor that one anymore (the owner was told of the consequences of having more than 70 sites)	08:42
preaction__	both. 1 site with 30,000+ registered users	08:43
preaction__	and 50-60 smaller sites	08:43
Samus_Aran	10 seconds response time for LAN access is ludicrous	08:43
preaction__	i'm talking internet	08:43
preaction__	i don't live in the datacenter	08:43
preaction__	i have DSL. 100kB/s when i'm not using it for other purposes	08:44
Samus_Aran	I mean, we will be updating and using the site on a LAN. 300KiB in 10 seconds is only 30KiB/sec, which I assume you have way more bandwidth than that	08:44
Samus_Aran	so the bottleneck is CPU	08:44
Samus_Aran	or disk access	08:44
preaction__	if there was a CPU bottleneck, the load would be far higher than .5	08:44
Samus_Aran	even our basic business DSL account gets use 60KiB/sec upstream	08:44
Samus_Aran	*gets us	08:44
preaction__	okay. we must be talking two different languages here	08:45
Samus_Aran	so why then does it take 10 seconds to load a page ?	08:45
preaction__	I... Me personally... do not live anywhere near the datacenter we use	08:45
Samus_Aran	do you have broadband ?	08:45
Samus_Aran	if so, it should make no difference	08:45
preaction__	I... Me personally... at my home... have a crappy DSL connection that is being 75% used by bittorrent at all time.	08:45
+Radix-wrk	our webgui server is a 3GHz P4 with 1GB ram - that runs a website with about 9300 users (who access it rarely) and over 5200 assets and it's on our lan and I usually get a page in a second or two at most.	08:46
preaction__	i will load the site i am talking about right now and report on the time it takes	08:46
+Radix-wrk	that's our website, intranet, extranet, users account server, all in one	08:46
Samus_Aran	I would like to find out why my manual install of WebGUI was going in slow motion on an otherwise unloaded server	08:47
Samus_Aran	if you're saying it should now be that way	08:47
Samus_Aran	but I would also like to know why spectre was using hundreds and hundreds of megs of RAM	08:47
preaction__	if you want support, plain black offers ad hoc login support at reasonable rates	08:47
Samus_Aran	and the apache threads were using almost 100MiB each	08:47
preaction__	i've explained the apache threads to you already: mod_perl, WebGUI, mod_php, etc... all take up memory	08:48
preaction__	the reason we use Apache2::SizeLimit is because mod_perl doesn't seem to like cleaning up after itself. apache also, because it kills its own children after so many connections / so much time	08:48
preaction__	Apache2::SizeLimit is just more efficient and more configurable about how the processes die	08:49
Samus_Aran	what is an empty WebGUI site doing that requires more than half a gig of RAM ?	08:49
Samus_Aran	my fresh install was using around 650MiB RAM in total	08:50
preaction__	it's not half a gig. WebGUI before it forks (mpm_prefork) takes about 70M (that's apache process + perl code + memory cache)	08:50
preaction__	70M per process	08:50
preaction__	* 5 processes (apache's default StartServers)	08:50
Samus_Aran	and 350MiB for spectre	08:50
preaction__	350M	08:50
preaction__	spectre grows slowly, usually due to errors talking to WebGUI	08:51
Samus_Aran	it had only been running, idle, for 2.5 days	08:51
Samus_Aran	I worked on it on Thursday	08:52
Samus_Aran	and then again now on Sunday	08:52
Samus_Aran	if it keeps growing, how does a hosted WebGUI server manage to not constantly run out of RAM ?	08:52
Samus_Aran	cronjobs to kill and restart the service constantly ?	08:53
+Radix-wrk	spectre is using 20mb on my server and 58-68mb for each apache process	08:53
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+Radix-wrk	load average is 0.05 for me	08:53
Samus_Aran	Radix-wrk: how long has spectre been running ?	08:53
+Radix-wrk	up 34 days	08:54
preaction__	if there are problems connecting to WebGUI, it slowly grows.	08:54
+Radix-wrk	that's with a stock wre install that I compiled myself	08:55
preaction__	we restart it on the demo box because when demo sites are removed, it needs to be restarted	08:55
+Radix-wrk	that's running on a via C7 1Ghz processor with 1GB ram - and is my home router/gateway/pc	08:56
preaction__	it's been more than 3 hours of you complaining about WebGUI. if you want real support, Plain Black offers it. if you follow the advice i've given you, others have given you, and the instructions, you can fix your problems.	08:56
Samus_Aran	this is my WRE, by default without any modifications: 37080+504+34544+57988+57672+57668+57668+57668+57668+2248+2432+2328+2328+2328+2332+2264	08:56
Samus_Aran	and no spectre, as it won't load	08:57
Samus_Aran	434720 KiB	08:57
Samus_Aran	RSS column of PS, grepping for things from /data/	08:57
Samus_Aran	preaction__: you stopped answering my questions about an hour ago	08:58
Samus_Aran	preaction__: I don't think you owe anything to me, but don't say that I wasn't following	08:58
Samus_Aran	I was trying my very best to try everything you said I should try	08:58
Samus_Aran	and your help is very much appreciated	08:58
Samus_Aran	Spectre will not load for me with a stock WRE	08:59
Samus_Aran	it complains about JSON	08:59
Samus_Aran	and I can't connect to the WebGUI site I added, with the above proxy error	08:59
+Radix-wrk	there's some stuff in gotchas.txt about JSON I seem to recall	09:00
* Samus_Aran goes to look		09:00
preaction__	the 0.8.1 WRE needs updated JSON and Config::JSON. this will be fixed in WRE 0.8.2	09:00
+Radix-wrk	stable version of webgui doesn't like newest version of JSON - and new 7.5.1 version fixes it or something	09:00
preaction__	no. latest stable (7.4.22) and latest beta (7.5.1) both need JSON 2.04 and Config::JSON 1.1.4	09:01
Samus_Aran	"to_json" is not exported by the JSON module	09:01
Samus_Aran	Can't continue after import errors at ../lib/Spectre/Cron.pm line 22	09:01
Samus_Aran	is the error	09:01
+Radix-wrk	run testEnvironment.pl	09:01
preaction__	won't work. you need to force install Config::JSON	09:02
Samus_Aran	Config::JSON is up to date (1.1.4).	09:02
Samus_Aran	when I did the manual install, testEnvironment.pl found every module it checked, other than one which it would always say it didn't find, even though it was installed	09:03
Samus_Aran	though I thought the WRE contained the complete Perl environment ?	09:03
preaction__	spectre is being run under the WRE? you're running testEnvironment.pl under the WRE's environment? what does echo $PATH say?	09:03
Samus_Aran	I haven't run testEnvironment.pl from the WRE	09:03
preaction__	did you run cpan from the WRE's environment?	09:04
Samus_Aran	you mean the all-in-one WRE is distributed broken ?	09:04
Samus_Aran	that rather defeats the purpose of an all-in-one download with all the servers	09:05
+Radix-wrk	it just needs a few updated perl modules for the newer versions that've come out since it was released	09:05
Samus_Aran	I am updating the modules using the testEnvironment.pl script. hopefully that will place the modules in the correct perl	09:07
preaction__	it only will if you tell it to	09:08
Samus_Aran	what do you mean ?	09:08
preaction__	it will put the modules in the correct place for the perl that is running	09:08
Samus_Aran	the perl that is running is whatever perl the testEnvironment.pl script launched	09:09
+Radix-wrk	you need to use ". /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment"	09:09
Samus_Aran	with the setenvironment.sh run first	09:09
Samus_Aran	yes	09:09
Samus_Aran	*sourced, not run	09:09
+Radix-wrk	as long as 'which perl' comes up with the one in the /data/wre directory you're fine	09:10
Samus_Aran	it has already installed at least a dozen Perl modules	09:13
Samus_Aran	prereq's for the JSON update	09:13
Samus_Aran	hm, a lot more than a dozen. maybe 40. it's just whipping through them	09:15
Samus_Aran	Checking for module Config::JSON: 1.1.1 is installed, but we need at least 1.1.2, do you want to upgrade it now? {y\|n} [y]	09:20
Samus_Aran	Going to read /root/.cpan-webgui/Metadata	09:21
Samus_Aran	Config::JSON is up to date.	09:21
Samus_Aran	so if cpan doesn't have it, how do I get 1.1.2 as needed ?	09:21
preaction__	you want 1.1.4. cpan does have it. you need to force install it	09:22
+Radix-wrk	I think it might be a bug in 1.1.1 - it reports itself as 1.1.4 or something	09:24
Samus_Aran	okay, done	09:24
Samus_Aran	only one not OK now is:	09:25
Samus_Aran	Checking for module Graphics::Magick: Not Installed, but it's optional anyway	09:25
Samus_Aran	I would like that to be installed, but it doesn't seem to have a cpan listing. I installed it through Ubuntu	09:25
preaction__	you want image::magic, not graphics::magick	09:25
Samus_Aran	I think it requires a full ImageMagick to be installed	09:26
Samus_Aran	image::magic or magick ?	09:26
preaction__	magick	09:26
Samus_Aran	Image::Magick is up to date.	09:26
preaction__	so you're fine	09:26
Samus_Aran	when I did the manual install, I got Graphics::Magick installed, so that the testEnvironment.pl script gave it an OK	09:27
Samus_Aran	are you saying the script is checking for something that is not used ?	09:27
preaction__	that's the "but it's optional anyway" part	09:27
+Radix-wrk	Graphics::Magick was added for FreeBSD I seem to recall.. which had problems with imagemagick	09:27
Samus_Aran	I would like all features to be available, is what I mean	09:28
preaction__	yah, but apeiron got IM compiling under WRE for FreeBSD so we don't need GM anymore	09:28
Samus_Aran	e.g. Aspell is also optional, but I installed it	09:28
+Radix-wrk	you won't need it	09:28
Samus_Aran	okay, thank you	09:28
preaction__	it uses one or the other, not both. if you have IM, it uses that. otherwise it tries to use GM. if it doesn't find either, it dies	09:28
Samus_Aran	okay, everything seems to be working now. Spectre started successfully	09:29
Samus_Aran	I still get the other error when trying to access the domain, though:	09:29
Samus_Aran	Bad Gateway	09:29
Samus_Aran	The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.	09:29
preaction__	as i said before: it means that the proxy server can't connect to the server it's supposed to be proxy for	09:30
Samus_Aran	isn't the server it is supposed to connect to the apache running in the WRE ?	09:30
preaction__	is the modperl server running?	09:31
Samus_Aran	which is running on the default ports during the install	09:31
Samus_Aran	everything is running now	09:31
preaction__	did you add any sites?	09:31
Samus_Aran	MySQL, Apache Modperl, Apache Modproxy, Spectre, WRE Console	09:31
Samus_Aran	I added one site	09:31
preaction__	and that hostname is resolvable? can you connect to the modperl server directly using its port?	09:32
Samus_Aran	I am stopping all the servers now, and restarting them	09:33
Samus_Aran	yes, DNS is fine	09:33
+Radix-wrk	try going to www.site.com:81	09:34
preaction__	WRE 0.8 uses 8081 now	09:34
+Radix-wrk	or whatever port you set modperl to be on	09:34
+Radix-wrk	okay.. 8081 then	09:34
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Samus_Aran	'objToJson' will be obsoleted. Please use 'to_json' instead. at /data/wre/sbin/wreconsole.pl line 312	09:36
Samus_Aran	Can't locate object method "autoconv" via package "JSON" at /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/JSON.pm line 122.	09:36
Samus_Aran	is that error important ?	09:37
Samus_Aran	not the deprecation part, but the autoconv	09:37
preaction__	depends, what are you doing?	09:37
preaction__	are you running 7.5.1 or 7.4.22?	09:37
Samus_Aran	that was from the wreconsole.pl	09:37
Samus_Aran	it died	09:37
Samus_Aran	it dies when I go to the Settings tab of the web setup interface	09:38
preaction__	yeah, it's going to do that until 0.8.2 is released	09:38
Samus_Aran	okay	09:38
Samus_Aran	I also don't like that it added a ServerAlias automatically. I just realised that the regular web site would not be offline, it would be mapping to this beta sub-domain	09:40
Samus_Aran	which seems quite wrong	09:40
Samus_Aran	joe.mysite.com should not automatically show up at mysite.com	09:41
preaction__	submit an RFE	09:41
Samus_Aran	that defeats the whole purpose of sub-domains	09:41
Samus_Aran	perhaps if the subdomain is "www" then it would be an alright default	09:41
Samus_Aran	though a redirect is the proper way to handle that, not a ServerAlias	09:41
Samus_Aran	ServerAlias's should pretty much not ever be used	09:42
Samus_Aran	otherwise Google and such will end up with two copies of the site	09:42
Samus_Aran	preaction__: to your question, I am on 7.4.22	09:44
Samus_Aran	er, I think I am. I was when I manually installed it	09:44
Samus_Aran	now I'm on whatever the WRE installed	09:45
Samus_Aran	I didn't see it mentioned	09:45
Samus_Aran	is the mod proxy on 8081 allow access from anywhere, or just LAN ?	09:45
Samus_Aran	and would I use the foo-server name or the domain name ?	09:46
Samus_Aran	I am working remotely. I did an SSH tunnel to access the foo-server:60834 at work	09:47
Samus_Aran	would I need a similar tunnel for 8081, or should going to the domain name (which has proper DNS to the computer in question) be enough ?	09:47
preaction__	it's meant to allow access from the box itself, localhost. not sure what your firewall allows	09:52
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Samus_Aran	I mean should I be able to access it using foobar.com:8081 ?	09:59
Samus_Aran	I can not currently	09:59
Samus_Aran	and yes, foobar.com's DNS does point to the appropriate IP and it is forwarded to the server in question	10:00
Samus_Aran	or is it	10:00
* Samus_Aran goes to check the catch-all		10:00
Samus_Aran	okay, forwarded a port manually and now I get to a login when going to the 8081 prot	10:08
Samus_Aran	*port	10:08
Samus_Aran	how can I fix the proxy so that I get to the site setup thing not on port 8081 ?	10:09
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SDuensin	Greetings.	15:52
ckotil	good morning	15:52
SDuensin	Howdy.	15:53
nuba	morning	15:58
AMH_bob	mornin'	16:13
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BartJol	morning everyone	16:51
perlmonkey2	preaction: Wanted to thank you for all your help yesterday.	17:15
@preaction	morning	17:19
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perlmonkey2	what would you think is wrong with the wre if netstat -ap returned about 15 pages of this: http://pastebin.com/d52d7b70c	17:37
nuba	google docs now has forms to help the everyman collect data into spreadsheets http://www.google.com/google-d-s/whatsnew.html	17:40
nuba	in a certain way, it sounds like a Thingy (Lite Edition)	17:41
nuba	things would become more interesting the moment they start allowing people to link data from one spreadsheet to another	17:43
perlmonkey2	hah, I was just wondering if they had an api for it :P	17:43
nuba	there you go http://code.google.com/apis/spreadsheets/overview.html	17:45
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perlmonkey2	Ah, should there be a webgui user in the mysql.user table for the wre install?	18:19
perlmonkey2	I have 4 users, root, test, backup and ''	18:19
perlmonkey2	oh....no it is a random string...I'm guessing tha tis the webgui user.	18:20
perlmonkey2	nm :)	18:20
@preaction	each site has its own db user, which the wre system creates with that random string	18:22
perlmonkey2	Do these start up wre log errors look fatal or abnormal? http://pastebin.com/d36421f85	18:25
BartJol	you can find it in your config	18:25
BartJol	sorry, i should mind my own business	18:25
perlmonkey2	BartJol: ??? why? I appreciate anyone's help	18:26
BartJol	yeah, but i'm only confusing you right now	18:26
perlmonkey2	No, I know what you mean.	18:26
BartJol	by using the wre, you create a config, so you can't look it up	18:26
perlmonkey2	It's in the Webgui/etc/.conf :)	18:27
BartJol	yeah that one :)	18:27
BartJol	but dies anyone here now a thing or two about scratch variables?	18:27
perlmonkey2	I'm on like hour 10 of trying to figure out why when webgui starts it creates 400 or so localhost tproxy connections, and would try to make more, but for os limits.	18:28
BartJol	does not dies	18:28
perlmonkey2	BartJol: I dream of the day when I can quit my job and learn all about webgui.	18:28
BartJol	well, I'm allowed to spend a couple of hours a week programming	18:29
BartJol	for my amusement and learning curve	18:29
BartJol	but about the connections, I'm afraid I don't know	18:30
perlmonkey2	completely driving me insane...the error logs are worthless.	18:30
perlmonkey2	Is this a bad thing to see in the wre error logs: Compilation failed in require at /data/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl line 72.	18:36
BartJol	well	18:37
BartJol	not really	18:37
perlmonkey2	I just don't get it......everything was working fine. Nothing changed, but all of a sudden it wasn't.	18:37
BartJol	mostly a script that is handled by perl and has some strange mistakes in them can give that	18:38
perlmonkey2	the wre doesn't auto-update does it?	18:38
BartJol	nop[e	18:38
BartJol	you did do " .setenvironment.pl"	18:38
BartJol	i suppose	18:39
perlmonkey2	yes	18:39
perlmonkey2	every time I'm starting something I do that.	18:39
BartJol	can't do that often enough it seems	18:39
perlmonkey2	heh, my path is like 400 lines long now I'v ran it so much.	18:40
BartJol	but does the log also refer to another script?	18:41
perlmonkey2	?	18:41
BartJol	or does your modperl log say something about it	18:41
perlmonkey2	that is the error log for mod_perl	18:41
perlmonkey2	just I'll relook	18:41
BartJol	ah, darn	18:41
@preaction	you might want to try running preload.perl by itself quick	18:41
perlmonkey2	BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm line 21.	18:42
perlmonkey2	Compilation failed in require at /data/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl line 72.	18:42
perlmonkey2	is the full line.	18:42
perlmonkey2	okay preaction I"ll try that.	18:42
@preaction	ha	18:42
@preaction	Image::ExifTool <- you're missing that i think	18:42
@preaction	when you see BEGIN failed -- compilation aborted, try doing a: cd /data/WebGUI/lib; perl -c WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm	18:43
@preaction	that'll show you the real error	18:43
perlmonkey2	I'm missing a lot of files	18:44
perlmonkey2	I get a lot of those.	18:44
perlmonkey2	Can't locate Image/ExifTool.pm	18:44
@preaction	which means you're missing that perl module	18:44
perlmonkey2	Actually , if no one complains about the spam:	18:45
perlmonkey2	Can't locate Image/ExifTool.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/5.8.8/i686-linux /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/5.8.8 /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/i686-linux /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8 /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl .) at WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm line 21.	18:45
perlmonkey2	BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm line 21.	18:45
perlmonkey2	preaction: But how could I be missing it, if I'm using the wre?	18:45
@preaction	it's a new requirement	18:45
@preaction	after 0.8.1 was released	18:45
perlmonkey2	I'm just not sure how I got a version of webgui tha tneeds something the wre didn't supply. and why it worked for a long time then stopped working.	18:46
perlmonkey2	Should I update the wre?	18:46
@preaction	there is no 0.8.2	18:46
perlmonkey2	wreupgrade.pl	18:46
perlmonkey2	oh.	18:46
perlmonkey2	ah.	18:46
perlmonkey2	so the wre is broken?	18:47
perlmonkey2	and somehow I got an update of webgui that needs something that the wre doesn't have?	18:47
@preaction	no. it's just missing some new developments in WebGUI	18:47
perlmonkey2	oh...so this isn't the fatal issue I'm having?	18:47
@preaction	this is the fatal issue you're having. even the WRE's installation instructions suggest running testEnvironment.pl	18:48
* perlmonkey2 has soooo much to learn about WebGUI.		18:48
* perlmonkey2 has money if you have a WG dev guide beta book :D		18:50
@preaction	dev guide doesn't cover this stuff. this is admin guide stuff	18:50
@preaction	dev guide covers coding and API	18:51
perlmonkey2	yeah, something I would have instantly caught if I wasn't useing the WRE.	18:51
perlmonkey2	I just assumed that there could not be any perl lib issues with the WRE.	18:51
@preaction	you could probably post a bug as a reminder to JT to include that module in the WRE 0.8.2 when he's ready	18:51
perlmonkey2	there are like 5	18:51
perlmonkey2	modules that failed	18:52
@preaction	Archive::Any, Image::ExifTool, are the two i know of	18:52
perlmonkey2	oh	18:52
perlmonkey2	those are the two I have	18:52
@preaction	those are the two i added for the Gallery	18:53
perlmonkey2	with broken cpan requirements trees	18:53
perlmonkey2	thanks :D	18:53
@preaction	the updated JSON and Config::JSON, but i think there's already a bug out there about those	18:53
perlmonkey2	yeah, that seems fixed.	18:53
perlmonkey2	I just don't get how it worked on my system, then stopped working without an upgrade or anything.	18:53
* perlmonkey2 just realized he's updating perl in /usr/lib instead of /dat		18:54
nuba	happens	18:55
nuba	sometimes	18:55
perlmonkey2	oh, no I'm not....setEnv , duh	18:55
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+perlDreamer	whoa!	18:56
+perlDreamer	It's xdanger	18:56
+perlDreamer	he's back	18:56
+perlDreamer	(at least in bot form)	18:56
perlmonkey2	preaction: that didn't fix things, but it made the error logs a lot cleaner: http://pastebin.com/d12e825f9	18:57
@preaction	if your server reached MaxClients, with no users, you have a problem. modperl's httpd.conf is at /data/wre/etc/modperl.conf	18:58
perlmonkey2	that error log is associated with about 400 tproxy localhost connections creating and dieing as fast as the OS can do it.	18:58
nuba	sounds like fun.. not.	18:59
perlmonkey2	hah......more than mere words can express :)	18:59
nuba	perlmonkey2: you can add something like this to setenv: export PS1="now im setenv'ed - $PS1"	19:01
perlmonkey2	nuba: I know I have the env correct. But I manually ran preload.perl and got this: Starting WebGUI 7.5.0	19:02
perlmonkey2	Can't locate object method "server" via package "Apache2::ServerUtil" at preload.perl line 80.	19:02
perlmonkey2	is that just because I'm running it manually?	19:02
+perlDreamer	yeah	19:02
perlmonkey2	the modperl.conf looks completely normal. I just wish there was some sort of error output for what is going on.	19:03
nuba	i suppose you have enabled more verbose logging for apache?	19:03
perlmonkey2	nope...thanks I'll look up how to do that :)	19:04
nuba	if not thats a way to troubleshooting	19:04
nuba	run a single apache instance as well	19:04
nuba	enable mod_status	19:04
nuba	let me see..	19:04
BartJol	hi perldreamer	19:06
nuba	i have modperl.error.log and modproxy.error.log on /data/wre/prereqs/apache/logs	19:06
+perlDreamer	Yo, BartJol	19:06
BartJol	my macro works	19:06
+perlDreamer	Awesome!	19:06
nuba	thats 0.7 wWRE	19:06
BartJol	now I have to extend it, because it works on every reload i believe	19:06
+perlDreamer	huh?	19:06
BartJol	that's a bit to much, so, i will incoporate a scratch variable	19:06
perlmonkey2	nuba: that tree doens't exist in 8.1. I'll see if I can find where apache is now.	19:06
BartJol	you mean it is cached?	19:07
nuba	you can try "find /data/wre -name modperl.error.log"	19:07
+perlDreamer	If you have admin mode turned on, caching is disabled.	19:08
+perlDreamer	But then it would transfer karma on every page load	19:08
+perlDreamer	so a scratch variables could be good.	19:08
BartJol	yeah, and if the session is longer than the cache time out, it also runs too often	19:08
BartJol	and 1 more thing, it should not work when the current user is also the owner of an object	19:09
perlmonkey2	nuba: I ran from wre/ find . -depth\|grep .log$ and no appache.error.log showed up. Only var/logs with modproxy and modperl	19:09
+perlDreamer	that's pretty easy to detect	19:09
BartJol	I know	19:10
BartJol	something like WebGUI::Session->getUserId	19:10
+perlDreamer	$session->user->userId	19:10
BartJol	and a new session object, I'm not using that currently	19:12
BartJol	I'm stupid	19:12
BartJol	first shift	19:12
BartJol	always	19:12
+perlDreamer	every macro gets a session sent to it automatically	19:12
BartJol	I realise that now	19:13
BartJol	the last one is already implemented	19:16
BartJol	scratch variable not yet, but first I'm gonna have dinner\	19:16
BartJol	maybe tonight if I really don't feel like preparing a presentation on the commerce system	19:18
+perlDreamer	The commerce system is going to change	19:18
BartJol	yeah, that's what the presentation is about	19:19
BartJol	the 44 page pdf is already in my bag	19:19
BartJol	but I'll be back to annoy you soon :)	19:21
* perlmonkey2 installed all the perl reqs in cent 5.1, I'll see if I can do it in cent 5.0		19:21
@preaction	BartJol, you're doing the presentation on the new commerce? nice	19:21
BartJol	you at Arjan's place	19:21
BartJol	united knowledge	19:21
BartJol	not at the wuc	19:22
BartJol	if I come it will be on the use of macro's	19:22
@preaction	oh	19:22
@preaction	:p	19:22
BartJol	maybe I can do 2	19:22
BartJol	will it be ready?	19:23
BartJol	:)	19:23
BartJol	otherwise it is a bit of a roadmap talk	19:23
@preaction	i think that's why rizen is offline presently, besides the convention he was just at	19:24
+perlDreamer	Well, I think the new commerce idea of basing all currency on the rupee is wrong.	19:24
@preaction	WDK and Commerce are his two goals for the next couple months	19:24
+perlDreamer	It's pretty stable wrt the dollar and the Euro, but still.	19:24
@preaction	Rupees are the new currency! they're good enough for Link	19:24
BartJol	well, I'll think about it, first have a look whether I can come at all	19:29
BartJol	bye	19:29
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@apeiron	Dangit, I'm doing one on commerce. I refuse to give up my talk on one of the Next Big Things in WebGUI.	19:32
@apeiron	I didn't want to give up a talk on the nonexistent API of Thingy, do you think I'm going to give up one on Commerce?	19:32
@preaction	uhm... no?	19:32
@preaction	i wonder which ones i'm going to have to give up	19:33
@preaction	i don't want to give up any either	19:33
@preaction	there's no Thingy API? there's no way to plug-in different kinds of handlers or something?	19:33
@apeiron	JT said to me in email "There's no pluggable API for thingy".	19:35
@apeiron	This was after I said I didn't want to give up that talk. :)	19:35
@preaction	damn...	19:35
@preaction	who knows, maybe it won't need one	19:36
@preaction	but technically there's no pluggable API for the Gallery currently. you have to edit the Gallery itself to plug-in a new File type	19:36
@preaction	i suppose i should start pondering that eventually	19:36
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template	20:09
+perlDreamer	"there is no spoon"	20:09
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template	20:10
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template	20:10
+perlDreamer	CIA-21: you've got the squirts	20:10
* perlmonkey2 really wishes WG didn't use Apache::Request2		20:16
+perlDreamer	what should it use instead?	20:16
perlmonkey2	something that most linux distros support out of the box instead of requiring a PhD in operating systems to install.	20:17
@preaction	Apache2::Request is part of mod_perl and libapr	20:17
+perlDreamer	yeah, yum it	20:17
+perlDreamer	I haven't needed to compile anything for Fedora for a very long time	20:17
@preaction	or apt-get, or emerge, whatever your distro does	20:17
+perlDreamer	well, until the wre	20:18
+perlDreamer	but the WRE comes with everything except for some of the modules	20:18
+perlDreamer	perl-libapreq2	20:19
+perlDreamer	that's from FC6, and it should be the same on RHEL 5/CentOs/SciLinux	20:20
perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: this is cent	20:20
+perlDreamer	4 or 5?	20:20
perlmonkey2	5	20:21
perlmonkey2	I have apr, apr-devel, mod_perl, mod_perl-devel, apache, apache-devel	20:21
perlmonkey2	it makes, but failes on make test.	20:21
perlmonkey2	I'm just an idiot....test suites were failing because I was root.	20:24
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template	20:27
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2: Here's someone else's experience with libapreq2 and CentOs 5	20:29
+perlDreamer	https://webwork.maa.org/moodle/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=5717	20:29
perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: You see what I said above? I was running the test suites as root.	20:30
perlmonkey2	which is a big nono	20:31
perlmonkey2	my own fault	20:31
perlmonkey2	but all the libs are built now. So I can move my wre install to a source install and see if the network issues continue.	20:31
perlmonkey2	what is funny is the way I'm having to do the mp3 rss feed for the client, it would have worked the same if we had used PB hosting and a 5/month hoster for disk, and about $10/month cheaper.	20:32
@preaction	pb does offer disk space upgrades. they should be in the store	20:38
perlmonkey2	They found some hoster that gave 100GB for $7.99/month or some such.	20:39
perlmonkey2	and most of the VPS's they wanted gave 15GB to 20GB for $30-$40/month.	20:39
perlmonkey2	I really wish I could offload this project onto PlainBlack :D	20:40
nuba	perlmonkey2: i just tried some cheapass hosting which gave me 120GB/8.99/mo	20:41
nuba	where i was dumping my backups	20:41
nuba	next thing is they block the account a couple of weeks afterwards, saying that it goes against their TOS	20:42
perlmonkey2	nuba: My plan was an XML::RSS daemon on the cheapass server up the mp3/video to the WG server.	20:42
perlmonkey2	nuba: yeah, what I was figuring.	20:42
perlmonkey2	no one gives that much disk away	20:42
nuba	i somehow talked my way out of that and told them I planned to serve these "machine snapshots" to my friends	20:42
nuba	in a website	20:42
perlmonkey2	sucker you in with lies and then it is too painful to leave.	20:42
nuba	as of yet, its still on, that was a couple of months ago	20:43
nuba	I told them I was just the sysadmin, and the user was another guy, and that I would forward the warning but "please send me the part of your TOS with the wording that says I cant do that"	20:44
nuba	i never heard back from them with the wording	20:44
nuba	checked the TOS myself, found nothing	20:44
nuba	so all ok until now, of course they can just change the TOS and ruin the party if they want to	20:44
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template	20:54
perlmonkey2	hah, I think I know what is going on.	20:55
perlmonkey2	this is classic	20:55
perlmonkey2	the rss feed on the front page is grabbing an rss producing collab object on another page. That collab object is now gone.	20:55
nuba	gremlins?	20:55
perlmonkey2	but the rss feed is hammering the server trying to get that feed	20:56
perlmonkey2	that just makes me sad	20:56
nuba	isnt that a bug?	20:56
perlmonkey2	a huge one	20:56
perlmonkey2	that has wasted maybe 24 solid hours of my time I didn't have to waste.	20:57
nuba	hammering the server until it gets the feed it wants	20:57
perlmonkey2	I'm not 100% sure that is the problme	20:57
perlmonkey2	but once I commit the removal of the rss feed, I'll know for sure.	20:57
perlmonkey2	if I can get to the commit page.	20:57
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2: iirc, Spectre does the RSS prefetch	20:58
+perlDreamer	so disabling that workflow may immediatly reduce your load	20:59
perlmonkey2	spectre isn't running ....	20:59
perlmonkey2	I'll try to commit the changes which remove the rss feed and then disable that workflow	20:59
perlmonkey2	do workflows do anything when spectre isn't running?	21:01
+perlDreamer	they shouldn't	21:01
perlmonkey2	would it be the EMS Precache?	21:01
@preaction	do you have a Syndicated Content wobject? if there is no RSS prefetch, then the SC asset tries to do i t	21:02
@preaction	workflows can run without spectre. spectre just tips them off. WebGUI does the real work	21:02
perlmonkey2	yes	21:02
+perlDreamer	it's the GetSyndicatedContent Workflow activity that prefetches RSS	21:03
perlmonkey2	that has to be what is happening.	21:03
perlmonkey2	and the wobject shows locked and all versions committed.	21:03
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template	21:03
@preaction	wtf is CIA on a loop or something?	21:04
@apeiron	I think it's subtly trying to tell us how important that commit is.	21:04
@preaction	it's not being very subtle about it	21:05
nuba	well at least its not flooding the channel	21:05
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@apeiron	preaction, http://code.google.com/p/cia-vc/issues/detail?id=2	21:07
@apeiron	Seems other people are seeing this too.	21:07
perlmonkey2	the explosion only happens when I go to the I have a SC that is locked on the front page. I'm 99% sure it is the problem. How do I unlock it? Spectre is running.	21:07
@preaction	perlmonkey2, you have to wait for spectre to process the commit	21:08
@preaction	cia.vc seems to be only partially reachable at the moment. so i don't know if i can even remove the bot	21:09
nuba	most repeated revisions by CIA bots, from my partial irclogs:	21:09
nuba	hq% grep -E '< CIA.* \* r.' \#webgui.200 \| awk '{print $7, $5}' \| uniq -c \| sort -rn \| head 6 r5413 graham 6 r5207 jt 3 r5255 doug 3 r5209 jt 2 r5391 doug 2 r5292 jt	21:09
nuba	oops some linebreaks are missing there	21:10
nuba	6 r5413 graham	21:10
nuba	6 r5207 jt	21:10
* apeiron would rather the paste be on one line than flood the channel. :)		21:10
nuba	heh true	21:10
perlmonkey2	wow	21:11
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perlmonkey2	so the SC was the problem	21:11
perlmonkey2	don't ever have an SC pointing at a bad uri....or at least one you own, cause it will DOS yoru machine.	21:11
nuba	rank of revisions where CIA bots got stuck, NOW ON PASTEBIN! http://webgui.pastebin.com/m26f05bef	21:12
nuba	graham's r5413 is in a tie with JT's r5207 in the first place	21:14
nuba	im rooting for graham, hes such a bug fixing whiz!	21:15
nuba	go graham go	21:15
nuba	>cause it will DOS yoru machine.	21:16
nuba	dont forget aobut DOSing someone else's machine	21:16
perlmonkey2	nuba: well that would have been btter...they could have blocked the requests and let me know I was DOS'ing them.	21:19
perlmonkey2	instead the machine just died.	21:19
perlmonkey2	wow, that bug just cost me a lot of money	21:21
perlmonkey2	suck	21:21
BartJol	does a scratch variable just have 1 value, that can be altered?	21:22
BartJol	oh and hi guys	21:22
BartJol	or can it contain more values?	21:22
+perlDreamer	you'd have to manually serialize it yourself, BartJol	21:22
BartJol	serialize?	21:23
+perlDreamer	transform from multiple values into 1 value (like a string)	21:23
BartJol	ah	21:23
BartJol	because I just want to store the visted url's in a session	21:24
BartJol	so I have to make a variable each time an url is visited?	21:24
+perlDreamer	Something has to keep track of where the user has been and how long ago	21:25
+perlDreamer	Kind of sounds like the passive profiling system	21:25
BartJol	well, the time is not very interesting to me	21:25
+perlDreamer	is it one time ever?	21:25
+perlDreamer	only once?	21:25
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BartJol	yes, well at least, one per session	21:26
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BartJol	one for always is also possible, but then I have to store it somewhere	21:26
BartJol	in the db	21:26
BartJol	that would be a disc consuming business	21:27
@preaction	session->scratch is cleaned up when the session is cleaned up	21:27
BartJol	I know, but that is no really objection to me	21:27
* perlDreamer lunches		21:27
nuba	BartJol: you need to keep track of it in the cookie?	21:28
BartJol	no, in a session	21:28
nuba	BartJol: would storing a row with (date, userid, pageurl) in a DB work for you?	21:28
BartJol	well, only when it's done when my macro is axecuted, not on page loading	21:29
nuba	you could regularly expire old records	21:29
nuba	and its simple to do that with a macro	21:29
BartJol	can it be done within the api?	21:30
BartJol	I rather not do it by writuing directly into the db	21:30
BartJol	then I may have to reprogram it for a new version	21:31
BartJol	you know what my macro is doing?	21:32
nuba	well I wold create another DB instead of using WebGUI's	21:32
nuba	and there, create a table	21:32
nuba	then theres this, i dont know what you want to do with this data	21:32
BartJol	well	21:32
nuba	if you use your DB, your table, your SQL queries wont change	21:33
BartJol	it's an AddKarma macro, to be executed within a template	21:33
nuba	unless you change your DB schema	21:33
BartJol	I'll keep it in mind	21:33
BartJol	thanks	21:33
nuba	so you wont have to change it every time WebGUI is released	21:33
nuba	with a change in the DB	21:33
BartJol	but it should give karma to the owner of an asset when it's visted	21:34
BartJol	and I want to implement, that it is possible only once per session	21:35
BartJol	for one asset	21:35
nuba	so you want the macro to know what asset it is being called from?	21:35
BartJol	so I'd like to store the url, so it can check whether the asset is already visited	21:35
BartJol	yes, but that part is already working	21:36
BartJol	the url (or in the future you can also choose the Id) is given with the macro by a tmpl_var	21:37
nuba	sounds interesting. would be great if there was a "run on session expire" feature in webgui.	21:37
nuba	like event handlers	21:38
BartJol	but maybe I should also build a choice that it is only possible once per asset revision or asset	21:38
BartJol	but a db creation is quite usefull, especially for the last option	21:40
BartJol	will be difficult to check revisions	21:40
BartJol	and i also have to keep the user visitor in mind	21:42
nuba	you can store the session hash as well	21:42
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nuba	instead of the user. or both.	21:43
nuba	if tracking users is of relevance	21:43
wgGuest88	hello	21:43
BartJol	hi	21:43
BartJol	well that was why i limiting it to sessions	21:44
nuba	BartJol: gimme a sec.	21:44
BartJol	sure	21:44
BartJol	what's up wgGuest 88?	21:44
wgGuest88	i have a question related to the sql forms, when i go to a sql form, it shows the search template as default	21:45
BartJol	yes	21:45
wgGuest88	can i change it to show to the template that have the fields to add a new record?	21:46
BartJol	I suppose so	21:47
wgGuest88	how can i change it?	21:47
wgGuest88	do you know?	21:47
BartJol	oh, there is only one opption, but you did create a new template?	21:48
BartJol	or do you mean the template that is shown while creating the form?	21:49
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wgGuest81	hello	21:49
wgGuest81	bartJol, now i am wgGuest81	21:50
BartJol	i suspected already	21:50
BartJol	did you get the last remark?	21:50
wgGuest81	i need to put the template that shows the form as a default when someone go to the sql form	21:50
BartJol	mmm, I should make an sql form myself, to test it	21:51
wgGuest81	ok	21:51
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nuba	BartJol: i added this line to my site's modproxy apache config file: CustomLog /tmp/BartJol.log "%{wgSession}C %h %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %b"	21:54
nuba	then head -1 /tmp/BartJol.log	21:54
nuba	lGtANrQ0lwU2sHC00wBSEw 201.78.30.151 - - [11/Feb/2008:17:24:49 -0200] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 18738	21:54
wgGuest43	hi	21:54
nuba	so you could keep track of urls being visited in a session this way too	21:54
BartJol	and how do I check that from within the macro	21:55
nuba	write to a log, then process/rotate it with a cron job	21:55
wgGuest43	i try to run spectre.pl and Displays the following error: 'jsonToObj' will be obsoleted. Please use 'from_json' instead. at /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8/Config/JSON.pm line 134	21:55
BartJol	mmm sounds possible, but maybe a bit above my knowledge right now	21:56
wgGuest43	how i can fix this?	21:56
BartJol	oh joy JSON again	21:56
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wgGuest25	hi	21:57
nuba	maybe it should be added to the topic. "jsonToObj errors? update JSON and Config::JSON!"	21:57
@khenn	the JSON issue will need to be fixed. It shouldn't cause any problems though	21:57
@khenn	just make sure you are running WebGUI 7.4.22	21:58
BartJol	but I will try to help on the sql issue of wgguest 81/88 template thingy	21:58
@apeiron	Hmm, if memory serves that's a warning not an error, yes? The "'jsonToObj will be obsoleted'"	21:58
BartJol	with emphasise on try	21:59
nuba	another good one for the topic: "Something broke? Did you check docs/gotcha.txt?"	21:59
@khenn	yes , it's a warning	21:59
@khenn	nothing breaks	21:59
@khenn	log it as a bug on pb.com if it's not already there	22:00
wgGuest25	yes a warning	22:00
wgGuest25	but, i don't see my webpage	22:00
wgGuest25	i saw in blank	22:01
@khenn	that's not because of spectre	22:01
@khenn	that's a different problem	22:01
wgGuest81	BartJol, if a call a macro in a template and it returns a collections or records, is posible to show a list of this record directly in the template?	22:01
@khenn	check the the modproxy logs	22:01
BartJol	wgguest 81, sorry, I have some issues creating another database, I'm a bit of a sql newby	22:03
wgGuest81	ok	22:04
BartJol	still trying though, have to learn	22:05
wgGuest81	hello all	22:07
metanil	<tmpl_var form.start> will return the form tag with its proper action.. with i found it doesn't have name.. how can i able to give a simple name to this form.. (implicitly in form.start)	22:07
wgGuest81	if a call a macro in a template and it returns a collections or records, is posible to show a list of this record directly in the template?	22:08
@preaction	you can't. you could write your own form.start though (in the template)	22:08
Samus_Aran	preaction: are you around today ? I could use a bit of help if you are	22:08
@preaction	wgGuest81, macros are processed after the template is processed. dunno if that answers your question	22:08
@preaction	Samus_Aran, can't. taking lunch and buying compy parts	22:08
* preaction &		22:08
metanil	preaction, you mean 'template' i could see 'form.start' in the template itself. there must be some .pm file which drives this.. is it?	22:10
Samus_Aran	Radix_: or you, as you mentioned using the proxy thing. I would like to use the WRE with the pre-existing Apache, using a mod_proxy to hand off requests as appropriate	22:10
Samus_Aran	preaction: no problem. enjoy	22:10
wgGuest81	preaction, if a put the macro in the beggining of the template, it will be executed after the template, too?	22:10
BartJol	yes	22:11
@khenn	metainl	22:12
@khenn	:	22:12
@khenn	copy the html from <tmpl_var form.start>	22:12
@khenn	then go into the template	22:12
@khenn	remove <tmpl_var form.start>	22:12
@khenn	paste in what it was printing out	22:12
@khenn	and modify as necessary	22:12
@khenn	don't change the action	22:12
@khenn	then you can name it whatever you want	22:12
BartJol	mmm, mysql won't let me create the db and I don't rmember the db admin passwd comination... so I'm afraid I can't help you at the moment wgguest 81	22:13
@khenn	you don't need to modify the core of WebGUI to make template changes	22:13
BartJol	have to fix that first	22:13
Samus_Aran	does anyone else know anything about using the WRE alongside an existing Apache/Perl/MySQL install ?	22:13
BartJol	and I like to improve my macro, which also eats time	22:13
Samus_Aran	as the manual install runs in ultra slow motion for me, quite unusable	22:14
@khenn	I know it can be a pain to install manually.	22:14
Samus_Aran	or is there simply some way I can test the WRE on an alternate port ?	22:14
@khenn	but you know that too	22:14
metanil	khenn, i am thinking of changing WebGUI::Form::formHeader.. .. is it ok?	22:14
wgGuest81	thanks BartJol	22:14
@khenn	no	22:14
@khenn	don't change that	22:14
@khenn	next upgrade you'll lose your changes	22:15
@khenn	just replace <tmpl_var form.start> with raw HTML	22:15
Samus_Aran	I got it installed manually quite well, without any issues I thought, but then it was going in slow motion. 10 to 30 seconds to load any page, on an unused server	22:15
@khenn	as long as you have the same action, it will be fine	22:15
@khenn	Samus, it could be a number of things	22:15
Samus_Aran	so now I want to try the WRE. almost got the WRE working on the weekend, but couldn't access the site through the proxy	22:15
metanil	hmm.. thanks khenn..	22:16
@khenn	it could be: the number of child processes in apache	22:16
@khenn	I believe WebGUI itself uses 3	22:16
Samus_Aran	I reduced the children, as they were using tons of RAM	22:16
@khenn	what did you reduce it to?	22:17
Samus_Aran	it was at 8 or 10 I think, and each was using around 78MiB RAM	22:17
@khenn	I think I run my dev server at 5	22:17
Samus_Aran	which seems highly excessive	22:17
metanil	khenn, what if that template is used by several pages???	22:17
Samus_Aran	the server is a dual-CPU 1.6Ghz with 1GiB RAM currently	22:17
@khenn	metanil: what is the action?	22:18
@khenn	on each of the pages	22:18
@khenn	is it posting to itself?	22:18
@khenn	if so, use the page macro as the action	22:18
@khenn	Samus: have you checked DNS	22:18
metanil	its the page which add this template	22:18
@khenn	we had issues a few weeks back where the server wasn't recognizing DNS	22:18
@khenn	which was causing every image to load ultra slow	22:18
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@khenn	Haarg would know more about the DNS stuff than I would	22:19
metanil	khenn, like /home/music/genre/form	22:19
@khenn	I think we had to explicitly put something in /etc/hosts	22:19
metanil	for this will only work for form page right?	22:19
@khenn	metanil: I think the page macro should work fine	22:19
@khenn	I can't remember what it is	22:19
metanil	ummm.. yaa. that would be great.	22:19
@khenn	though	22:19
@khenn	just set the action of the form to the page macro	22:19
metanil	(why didn't i think about it before)	22:19
Samus_Aran	khenn: MinSpareServers 2, MaxSpareServers 4, MaxClients 20	22:20
metanil	khenn,, and macro will return exact page url, right	22:20
wgGuest81	BartJol, can you help me tomorrow with the sql form?	22:20
wgGuest81	i am going to test at night and if a get something i will tell you tomorrow	22:21
BartJol	well other people know more about it	22:21
wgGuest81	Who?	22:21
Samus_Aran	khenn: and I added a MaxRequestsPerChild 300, as I was concerned about a memory leak such as was present with spectre (using 350MiB RAM after 2 days)	22:22
BartJol	but tomorrow I'm only available til 6 pm cet	22:22
wgGuest81	ok	22:22
BartJol	well, I suspect everyone :)	22:22
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@khenn	metanil: the macro will return the page it's on	22:23
@khenn	so that actually might not work	22:23
Samus_Aran	khenn: my Apache threads normally use 4.3MiB RAM, and with WebGUI that goes up to around 78MiB each. it seems that WebGUI does not play well in a shared environment	22:23
@khenn	unless the asset itself is the page	22:23
@khenn	if that's the case, it'll work great	22:24
@khenn	if the asset is on a page	22:24
BartJol	wgGuest81, dapperedodo and Mr Hairgrease know a lot about it, but are on holidays right now	22:24
@khenn	then the post will not work correctly when on the page	22:24
Samus_Aran	as there are other web sites, which will now use tons of RAM even serving simple HTML pages	22:24
metanil	hmm.. ya.. i think so..	22:24
BartJol	but they have a site	22:24
@khenn	Samus: here's what I would recommend doing	22:25
perlmonkey2	is there anyway to have cgi-bin be a functional scriptalias passthru? I can't seem to make it work.	22:25
@khenn	download the latest WRE and install it on a test box (or virtual machine)	22:25
@khenn	then look at how we've configured apache / mod perl / etc	22:26
BartJol	sorry wgGuest81, I was mistaken, it was on the sqlreport and in dutch.. which might cause some trouble	22:26
BartJol	but it is www.sqlreport.org	22:26
@khenn	I run on the WRE 0.81 on a P3 550 with only 512 megs of ram	22:26
@khenn	and it's actually pretty fast	22:26
@khenn	so it's definitely something with your configuration	22:27
@khenn	oh I'm running on Centos	22:27
@khenn	I also have a dev box on my mac	22:27
@khenn	but that's a different story	22:27
@khenn	perlmonkey2: you need to set up a rewrite rule in apache	22:28
perlmonkey2	khenn: okay, thanks :)	22:28
Samus_Aran	khenn: how much RAM do your Apache threads use each ? mine are 60 to 70MiB each as soon as WebGUI is enabled	22:28
@khenn	on my P3, I get up to 380 megs used at times	22:29
Samus_Aran	(with a manual install)	22:29
@khenn	I've never had the box crash	22:29
@khenn	and I've never had it run ultra slow	22:29
@khenn	but again, I'm not using a manual install	22:29
@khenn	so I'm guessing it's a config / fine tuning issue	22:29
Samus_Aran	but how much do individual threads of Apache use ? I want to know if my manual install is completely borked, or if it's normal to use that much	22:30
@khenn	I don't know how much each individual thread of Apache uses	22:30
@khenn	I'm not even sure how I would find that out.	22:30
@khenn	all I can see is how much total ram is being used by Apache	22:31
@khenn	all I know how to see anyway	22:31
@khenn	unfortunately we are pretty much at the limit of what I know how to troubleshoot	22:32
Samus_Aran	if you wanted to see RAM used, this command will do it: \ps ww -e -o rss,args \| grep httpd \| grep -v grep	22:34
Samus_Aran	it will display kilobytes of RAM for each Apache thread	22:34
Samus_Aran	for some unknown reason, when I started up the WebGUI running from the manual install, it is fast	22:34
Samus_Aran	there is now the /WRE in /data. perhaps it is using something from in there, even though it shouldn't. I'm not sure	22:35
@khenn	i'll check my dev box	22:35
Samus_Aran	the WRE isn't being used currently	22:35
Samus_Aran	but pages are loading <1 second	22:35
Samus_Aran	weird	22:35
@khenn	hmm	22:35
@khenn	yeah I'm not sure	22:36
Samus_Aran	it was a minimum of 5-8 seconds when I was working on it Thursday	22:36
Samus_Aran	and often 30	22:36
@khenn	sounds like something you did along the way fixed the problem	22:36
Samus_Aran	and since then I have not touched my manual install, I just moved it and put it back today	22:36
Samus_Aran	oh well. if it's working, it's working	22:36
Samus_Aran	[until it decides to stop working again, hehe]	22:36
Samus_Aran	it is perfectly fine now, nice and fast	22:38
@khenn	I ran that command	22:38
@khenn	each apache thread is using < 75k	22:39
@khenn	er < 65k	22:39
@khenn	er > 65k	22:39
@khenn	heh	22:39
@khenn	less than	22:39
Samus_Aran	I think I will test if it is using some component of the WRE I installed in /data. I will stop apache, rename /data and then try again	22:39
@khenn	I take it you have WebGUI installed somewhere besides /data	22:39
@khenn	ie: /data/WebGUI/lib	22:40
@khenn	otherwise you might just want to rename /data/wre	22:40
Samus_Aran	I have my manual install in /var/www/WebGUI and my domain at /var/www/foo.com	22:42
Samus_Aran	okay, renamed the old /data and restarted ... lemme see if it is slow now	22:42
Samus_Aran	made no difference. still nice and fast	22:42
Samus_Aran	I guess I can remove the WRE now and get on with developing the web site	22:43
@khenn	well, it's a mystery but it's solved	22:43
Samus_Aran	phew !	22:43
Samus_Aran	thanks for your help, khenn and preaction and Radix_	22:43
@khenn	sure thing	22:43
Samus_Aran	I haven't used WebGUI since v4.x, it has changed a lot. I find it more confusing now	22:43
Samus_Aran	but I will try to figure it out	22:44
@khenn	it's 1000 times the size	22:44
@khenn	wow WebGUI 4 eh?	22:44
@khenn	that's a long time ago	22:44
@khenn	Having used both versions, I can honestly say version 7 is much better	22:45
@khenn	especially from a developers standpoint	22:45
@khenn	it's a lot more customizeable	22:45
Samus_Aran	I find the UI more confusing, however I see a huge number of new features	22:45
Samus_Aran	and I like features =)	22:45
@khenn	you think the UI is more confusing?	22:46
wgGuest24	i have webgui 7.4.18 and don't see my page	22:46
@khenn	I thought it was much worse when all of the admin stuff was right in the middle of your page	22:46
@khenn	what do you mean you don't see your page?	22:46
Samus_Aran	khenn: for example adding a section to a page. it used to be intuitive, now I'm not even sure how to do it	22:46
wgGuest24	and in the webgui.log i found this error: ERROR - spectre.conf - POE::Kernel::_dispatch_event[1012] - ADMIN: Couldn't connect to WebGUI site	22:46
wgGuest24	what i must do?	22:47
@khenn	sounds like a configuration problem	22:47
@khenn	my guess is you have the IP address or port misconfigured	22:47
@khenn	for spectre	22:47
Samus_Aran	khenn: e.g. a new column or a paragraph of text. in 4.x it was very clear what to do, now all I see is "pages". preaction said that all the sections are pages now, which seems kind of strange	22:47
wgGuest24	i do a copy of spectre.conf.original	22:48
wgGuest24	and don't modified	22:48
@khenn	the problem is likely in your webgui config file	22:48
@khenn	do a search for spectre in there	22:48
@khenn	Samus: anything in WebGUI can be a page these days	22:49
@khenn	for instance	22:49
@khenn	if you wanted to create a page that only had one article on it	22:49
@khenn	you could simply add the article as a child of home or something else	22:49
@khenn	expose it to the navigation	22:49
@khenn	and presto, it's a page	22:50
@khenn	the only time you really need to use "Pages" per say, is when you want to display more than one "thing" on a "page"	22:50
@khenn	I guess that can be a bit confusing	22:50
Samus_Aran	in WebGUI 4.x, there would often be dozens of items on the page	22:51
Samus_Aran	each section was self-contained, so you could cut/paste it somewhere else, or move it to a new column, etc.	22:52
Samus_Aran	I'm not sure how to do that type of management in 7.x	22:52
@khenn	it's drag and drop now	22:53
@khenn	add a page layout	22:53
@khenn	then you can start adding things to that page layout	22:53
@khenn	those things become children of the page layout	22:53
@khenn	and you can drag and drop them or move them about via the asset manager	22:53
@khenn	actually, we have published an entire book on managing content in WebGUI	22:54
@khenn	https://www.plainblack.com/store/services/books2/webgui-content-managers-guide	22:54
@khenn	there is a great deal of content in there	22:55
@khenn	about using pretty much everything in WebGUI	22:55
@khenn	(in terms of content)	22:55
@khenn	I gotta run. BBL	22:55
-!- khenn is now known as khenn_afk		22:55
wgGuest24	my spectre.conf looks good	22:55
wgGuest24	i don't know that do?	22:56
perlmonkey2	With the $15/month PB hoster, there is no way to run custom macros?	23:04
wgGuest24	que debo hacer??	23:06
nuba	pregunta y espera	23:09
nuba	en el entremedio, puedes leer al wiki o a los foruns	23:10
nuba	lo mejor es que pregunte en ingl�s	23:10
nuba	your questions will reach more people this way	23:11
BartJol	well the session logging seems to work reasonly	23:13
BartJol	and the owner does not get karma anymore	23:13
BartJol	but the session logging does not always work great	23:14
wgGuest24	ya pregunte en ingles y nada	23:14
wgGuest24	they tell me that my spectre.conf is wrong, but this it's good	23:14
nuba	wgGuest24: can you handle yourself with a shell?	23:16
BartJol	but maybe it is just caching	23:16
nuba	wgGuest24: fire a shell, go to /data/wre/sbin, type '. ./setenvironment' without the quotes	23:16
nuba	that will set your environment properly	23:17
nuba	then go to /data/WebGUI/sbin and run 'perl spectre.pl --test'	23:17
nuba	if you see 'Tests completed.' and no error, your spectre is ok	23:18
nuba	otherwise it'll spit some error for you	23:18
wgGuest24	i dn't have wre i have the source	23:18
nuba	which you should use as your starting point	23:18
nuba	whoops	23:18
nuba	its been a while since I used to run webgui without the WRE, not sure I can help you then	23:19
nuba	anyway, try 'perl spectre.pl --test from wherever it is your WebGUI/sbin is located now	23:20
wgGuest24	ok	23:20
wgGuest24	'jsonToObj' will be obsoleted. Please use 'from_json' instead. at /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8/Config/JSON.pm line 134	23:20
nuba	perlbot: life with cpan	23:21
perlbot	Information pertaining to the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN) can be found at http://sial.org/howto/perl/life-with-cpan/	23:21
wgGuest24	couldn't connect www.ejemplo.com	23:21
nuba	did you add the proper DNS entries for your www.ejemplo.com site?	23:23
nuba	or added it to /etc/hosts	23:23
nuba	?	23:23
wgGuest24	yes	23:23
wgGuest24	and restart apache2	23:23
nuba	if you type 'host www.ejemplo.com', is it pointing to your machine's IP or some IP apache would be listening at?	23:23
wgGuest24	yes, my ip, because it's local	23:24
nuba	what is your webgui release again?	23:24
wgGuest24	7.4.18	23:24
nuba	is this a fresh install ? any reason for not using the latest stable?	23:25
nuba	actually, any reason for not using the wre?	23:25
wgGuest24	i have this before, and reinstall my ubuntu and now is install webgui	23:26
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2: you can't run any custom perl code on PB's hosting, unless you get your own server.	23:27
Samus_Aran	wgGuest24: if it is local, do you have a DNS server or is it in your hosts file ?	23:27
nuba	you know you could use the wre, install webgui 7.4.18 on it, add a site with the same name of what you had before, then replace the database for the one you had, and place the uploads under /data/domains/www.ejemplo.com/public, and live happly ever after, dont you?	23:28
nuba	by using the WRE it will be easier for you to get help from the community	23:29
nuba	ie. in my case I dont really remember a lot of configuring/troubleshooting a lone webgui install, no WRE	23:30
BartJol	perlDreamer, you mentioned a time ago something about wrting tests	23:31
+perlDreamer	yeah man	23:31
+perlDreamer	ready to learn?	23:31
BartJol	I feel I get in the stage that that might get usefull	23:31
+perlDreamer	okay, let me throw some resources your way	23:31
BartJol	ah, that would be nice	23:31
BartJol	need my mail?	23:32
+perlDreamer	1) Get a copy of my Testing Tutorial from WUC 2006. Koen, Joeri, Martin should all have copies	23:32
+perlDreamer	2) perldoc Test::Tutorial	23:32
+perlDreamer	3) perldoc Test::More	23:32
+perlDreamer	if you can't get a copy of my WUC talk, let me know and I'll email you one	23:32
BartJol	ok, Ill check that tomorrow	23:33
perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: that's what I remembered, but I wanted to make sure. Thanks	23:33
+perlDreamer	and from what I see on their site, $15 hosting is now $20 hosting	23:34
+perlDreamer	So good job for purchasing early :)	23:34
+perlDreamer	BartJol: In the meantime, have a look at the tests in /data/WebGUI/t/Macro for ideas and stuff to borrow.	23:35
BartJol	but it seems to run quite ok right now, but it really needs testing	23:35
+perlDreamer	with automated tests, no more loading, and reloading, and so on.	23:36
+perlDreamer	You set it up once, and keep using it.	23:36
BartJol	but you can do tests what happens on a reload?	23:37
+perlDreamer	Sure. Reload is the second time the user accesses the macro.	23:37
BartJol	check	23:37
BartJol	right now I already feel a bit proud that I came this far	23:38
perlmonkey2	what ever happened to crythias?	23:38
+perlDreamer	You should, man! You've worked hard and done well.	23:38
BartJol	it takes some initialisation time, but after that it goes quite ok	23:39
BartJol	easier to fix mistakes and stuff	23:39
Samus_Aran	does anyone have any idea why the site search might not work ?	23:42
wgGuest24	yes i have /data/domain/ejemplo.com/www/public	23:42
Samus_Aran	I don't get any errors, just no results. it puts me on the search page again	23:42
Samus_Aran	hm. apparently if you use ^c; for the company name, it won't find it when you type part of the name	23:43
Samus_Aran	I tried some other words and they were found	23:43
BartJol	ah, yes I heard that it is a bit sensitive sometimes	23:43
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: I _think_ you have to run the site indexer manually when you start the site.	23:43
Samus_Aran	actually, that isn't the issue. hm	23:43
Samus_Aran	it seems to be ignoring my Contact form text	23:44
Samus_Aran	perlDreamer: I will look into that	23:44
Samus_Aran	it finds the page names, but not text on the page	23:44
BartJol	but I'm gonna relax now and test later	23:48
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+perlDreamer	I think the SpectreCheck macro needs to use the most maligned HTML tag of all time.	23:57
Samus_Aran	Does anyone know how I can make the news post immediately ? it is set to "Commit without approval"	23:57
Samus_Aran	I thought <blink> was the most maligned	23:57
+perlDreamer	Yup. If spectre is broken, then I want it to be very visible.	23:58
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: This is a guess, but try the sitewide settings for autocommit and autoapprove. They should make that intermediate page go away.	23:58
+perlDreamer	But they will apply to ALL asset commits, not just the News	23:59
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BartJol	can't you call the macro with tehe rolling eyes of jt?	23:59
BartJol	xeyes evaluated	23:59
--- Day changed Tue Feb 12 2008
cap10morgan	What are common causes of this error when trying to exec a workflow instance: "Couldn't execute operation ... Root cause: can't build entity: no body, and not multipart"?	00:00
BartJol	oh, sorry, it was an acme, and then it would be usefull	00:00
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Samus_Aran	perlDreamer: it is a small site, I don't think we will need much of a workflow. realtime is alright	00:00
+perlDreamer	cap10morgan: That's a new one on us.	00:00
cap10morgan	perlDreamer: great! :)	00:01
+perlDreamer	wanna nopaste some log file output?	00:01
cap10morgan	that's all of it	00:01
cap10morgan	w/o turning up the logging level	00:01
+perlDreamer	webgui.log or error.log?	00:01
cap10morgan	which i may have to do here shortly...	00:01
cap10morgan	webgui.log	00:02
+perlDreamer	check the error.log	00:02
+perlDreamer	that's not a WebGUI error	00:02
cap10morgan	hmm, the error.log says nothing when i generate that error	00:03
cap10morgan	but it does have tons of Apache2::SizeLimit messages	00:03
cap10morgan	over and over	00:03
cap10morgan	it's killing processes left and right	00:03
cap10morgan	hmm...	00:03
CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5414 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Macro/_macro.skeleton: added POD to the macro skeleton	00:03
Samus_Aran	perlDreamer: I really do not understand the versioning used in 7.x	00:04
Samus_Aran	perlDreamer: I went and clicked on "commit my changes" and it reverted all the work I did	00:04
+perlDreamer	is Spectre running and configured properly?	00:05
Samus_Aran	perlDreamer: at this point I am unsure what is going on =/	00:05
Samus_Aran	running, yes. configured properly, I don't know	00:05
Samus_Aran	I did a manual install via the instructions on the web site	00:05
+perlDreamer	head over to the WebGUI sbin directory and do a perl spectre.pl --test	00:06
Samus_Aran	ERROR: Spectre cannot communicate with WebGUI. Perhaps you need to adjust the spectreSubnets setting in this config file: <domain>.conf	00:07
+perlDreamer	well, there you go	00:07
+perlDreamer	WebGUI can't talk to spectre to commit your assets, so they're locked	00:07
+perlDreamer	while they're locked, the site doesn't display them	00:08
Samus_Aran	when I clicked commit, it lcoked them	00:08
Samus_Aran	*locked	00:08
+perlDreamer	yup	00:08
Samus_Aran	okay, going to look	00:08
Samus_Aran	oh I know what's going on	00:08
Samus_Aran	or not.	00:09
Samus_Aran	(I thought it was an incorrect password)	00:09
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: If you've found any of our help useful today, you can help us by making a wiki page with what you've learned today.	00:09
-!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has quit ["Windows doesn't have users, it has hostages."]		00:11
Samus_Aran	"spectreSubnets" : [ "127.0.0.1/32" ], "spectreIp" : "127.0.0.1", "spectrePort" : 32323,	00:12
Samus_Aran	that is normal, is it not ?	00:12
+perlDreamer	looks okay, but then again, I'm not all that familiar with Spectre.	00:13
+perlDreamer	what's in spectre.conf?	00:13
BartJol	what happens when you change the ip to the real ip?	00:14
Samus_Aran	"ip" : "127.0.0.1", "port" : 32323, "maxWorkers" : 3, "webguiPort" : 80,	00:14
BartJol	and I've seen other subnets than 32	00:14
BartJol	I got it working once by changing it to 16 or 24 I believe	00:15
Samus_Aran	oh my gosh:	00:16
Samus_Aran	-rw-r--r-- 1 www-data root 246M 2008-02-11 14:15 /var/log/webgui.log	00:16
Samus_Aran	that is a large log file, considering I have done almost nothing on WebGUI so far	00:16
Samus_Aran	heh	00:16
Samus_Aran	hm	00:18
Samus_Aran	I see this in the log file:	00:18
CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5414 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Macro/_macro.skeleton: added POD to the macro skeleton	00:18
Samus_Aran	main::[[undef]] - Visitor (1) connecting from <external_ip> attempted to make a Spectre workflow runner request, but we're on ly allowed to accept requests from 127.0.0.1/32.	00:18
Samus_Aran	that appears a lot	00:18
Samus_Aran	so presumably the router is giving my connection the external IP	00:19
Samus_Aran	even though both this computer and the server are on the same LAN	00:19
Samus_Aran	though I thought it was just the webgui process that would connect to it, in which case the IP shouldn't matter	00:19
Samus_Aran	as it never leaves localhost	00:20
Samus_Aran	I'm not entirely clear on this whole webgui/spectre communication thing	00:20
Samus_Aran	this error appears a lot: "Couldn't get UI level of WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WeatherData. Root cause: Can't locate object method "getUiLevel""	00:22
Samus_Aran	via package "WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WeatherData" at /var/www/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm line 696.	00:22
BartJol	Samus_Aran, the subnet was changed to 16	00:24
-!- wgGuest81 [n=wgGuest8@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has quit []		00:24
metanil	Can i have "File submitted by", "File submitted at (time)", "File last accessed by" beside "description" and "last updated" field in the File asset.??	00:30
BartJol	well you can, if the template variables exist	00:31
@preaction	not last accessed (unless that means last changed). submitted by is probably easy (<tmpl_var ownerUserId>)	00:31
@preaction	but you'll need to get the username out of that. probably with a macro. dunno if any macros built-in will do it	00:32
Samus_Aran	preaction: could you help me figure out why spectre can't communicate with my manually installed webgui ? it is running very fast now, by the way	00:34
Samus_Aran	not sure why, but I'm not complaining	00:34
@preaction	i would bet that spectre is for some reason binding on the external IP. or if your /etc/hosts has yourdomain.com pointing to that external IP, it might show up like that. your best bet would be to do what the error message from spectre.pl --test said, and put your external IP in spectreSubnets	00:35
Samus_Aran	I just got a new error, when restarting apache and spectre	00:37
Samus_Aran	actually that error seems to only be because I had stopped apache and then loaded spectre first	00:39
Samus_Aran	afk brb	00:39
-!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has joined #webgui		00:43
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Samus_Aran	everything seems to be working now. added the external IP as a subnet to Spectre	00:58
Samus_Aran	not sure why Spectre is even looking at the external IP when it's on the same computer as WebGUI	00:59
Samus_Aran	all my changes reappeared	00:59
+perlDreamer	Spectre processed the version workflow	00:59
nuba	i think it would be good if every wiki update would appear here with the wikipage title, and the webgui.org nickname of the person who did the change	01:00
+perlDreamer	nuba: PB's contract with their provider says "NO IRC"	01:00
+perlDreamer	You'd have to screen scrape it.	01:00
nuba	like "Wiki: WebGUI Search System edited by knowmad"	01:01
nuba	"Wiki: Subscriptions, Manage added by knowmad"	01:01
Samus_Aran	can the wiki provide a dump of the most recent 50 posts, in xml or csv ? that would be simple enough to check once per 5 minutes or similar	01:02
nuba	theres http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki?func=recentChanges	01:02
nuba	i can whip that up with irssi	01:02
nuba	perlDreamer: if they can run a irc client from their servers, they can have a irc bot	01:03
nuba	but maybe even that they cannot do	01:03
+perlDreamer	it isn't on their servers, it runs locally on the web client in Java	01:03
+perlDreamer	I've been hounding JT about this for two years.	01:04
+perlDreamer	He's very adamant about the contract.	01:04
nuba	it happens that irc client, some bots, and a private ircd (for work), well, thats exactly what I do from my dedacated server :)	01:04
Samus_Aran	you could also set up an SSH tunnel from the server	01:05
nuba	never had any issue with the providers. but then my ircd is wrapped with SSL, with a password to connect to the ircd too	01:05
nuba	and this is a very very low traffic machine	01:06
@preaction	nuba, if you're willing, JT has said he will accept me building an interface (a la JSON or XML or somesuch) to the data that your bot could use	01:09
@preaction	of course, one of the features i want to see in the wiki is the ability to subscribe to a wikipage	01:10
@preaction	which would fulfill the same purpose really	01:11
nuba	the wiki having a RSS feed would be good enough	01:11
nuba	does it?	01:11
nuba	otherwise im scraping it	01:11
nuba	it would make a lot of sense for me this of people subscribing to a RSS feed of recent changes in a wiki	01:12
Samus_Aran	nuba: if they can modify the wiki to dump in csv or xml, it will save the server from sending more data than it needs (a whole HTML page)	01:12
cap10morgan	hmm, a bunch of my modperl instances are segfaulting	01:13
cap10morgan	any clever tricks to debug why that's happening?	01:13
cap10morgan	i should say, modperl processes	01:13
nuba	ktrace?	01:13
nuba	and kdump?	01:13
nuba	you can have hours of fun with that	01:13
+perlDreamer	PB people: When is the rizenator back?	01:14
nuba	for some offbeat definition of fun, of course	01:14
@preaction	nuba, i can build a shortcut to the wiki that will give you whatever you want in whatever serialization you want, JSON, XML, or otherwise. (i'd prefer JSON, more possibilities)	01:14
cap10morgan	nuba: hmm, googling, thanks for the suggestion	01:14
cap10morgan	nuba: does ktrace work on linux?	01:15
+perlDreamer	http://www.presicient.com/langjobs/usajobs.html	01:15
cap10morgan	looks like a bsd thing	01:15
nuba	cap10morgan: if you launch a single instance of apache, enable ktrace, and reproduce the error, skip to about the end of your dump and its probably around there	01:15
nuba	thats what I sometimes do on freebsd, dunno what you'd use in linux	01:16
cap10morgan	ah, ok	01:16
cap10morgan	i guess that would be strace	01:16
@preaction	Debugging and profiling mod_perl applications: http://www.perl.com/lpt/a/974	01:17
nuba	Samus_Aran: for a 18566 bytes html, its ~66MB/day plus some little overhead to retrieve /community-wiki?func=recentChanges every minute and scrap it	01:20
nuba	preaction: if I can ask, I'd first ask that the wiki outputs RSS so that besides scrapping I can subscribe to it	01:21
+perlDreamer	yeah!	01:21
+perlDreamer	RSS	01:21
nuba	or any webgui wiki	01:21
@preaction	i could write something to do that, yes	01:21
@preaction	give me until tomorrow	01:22
nuba	afterwards looking for other formats like JSON would be ok, but the RSS is the thing I think most people wouldbenefit from	01:22
nuba	preaction: can plainblack live with 66Mb/day for a few days?	01:22
@preaction	what do you mean?	01:22
nuba	if yes im getting this bot to scrap the page and post new updates here today	01:23
+perlDreamer	one WebGUI download / day from PB is bigger than that, nuba	01:23
@preaction	yes, but the download doesn't go through webgui	01:23
nuba	i knkow, but since Samus_Aran brought the worry about MB/day up..	01:23
metanil	is there any method available in webgui core that will return username from userid (as parameter)???	01:23
+perlDreamer	metanil: not yet :)	01:24
@preaction	metanil, print WebGUI::User->new( $session, $userId )->username;	01:24
+perlDreamer	Sounds like a good RFE	01:24
metanil	hmm..	01:25
metanil	ok i'll write my own.	01:25
+perlDreamer	preaction: How about some golfing :)	01:29
+perlDreamer	WebGUI::User->new(@_)->username;	01:30
@preaction	touche	01:30
+perlDreamer	but it leaves you open to user creation attacks	01:30
CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5415 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (i18n/English/Macro_SpectreCheck.pm Macro/SpectreCheck.pm): adding the SpectreCheck Macro, per the RFE	01:33
@preaction	what does the SpectreCheck macro do?	01:34
+perlDreamer	It says whether or not a connection could be made to Spectre	01:34
@preaction	i suppose that could be useful	01:35
+perlDreamer	I think it would be more useful displayed in the AdminBar.	01:36
+perlDreamer	What do you think?	01:36
@preaction	didn't that RFE say something about displaying it during a commit?	01:36
+perlDreamer	it's 3-fold	01:36
+perlDreamer	1) When committing	01:36
+perlDreamer	2) When auto-committing (which is TBD)	01:37
+perlDreamer	3) Macro for displaying status	01:37
cap10morgan	hmm, yeah, strace indicates that i'm sometimes getting segfaults something is retrieved from the db cache	01:42
cap10morgan	clearing the cache and restarting doesn't help	01:42
cap10morgan	but switching to file cache does	01:42
nuba	nice	01:43
cap10morgan	yep, "select content from cache..." precedes the segfault every time	01:43
@preaction	weirdness	01:44
cap10morgan	that seems bad overall	01:44
@preaction	what does myisamchk say about the cache table?	01:44
cap10morgan	it's in a bunch of different sites' databases	01:44
cap10morgan	i mean, i could check anyway, but seems unlikely they're all affected	01:45
cap10morgan	says 1 client is using or hasn't closed properly	01:47
cap10morgan	and usable but should be fixed	01:47
cap10morgan	on 2 sites that exhibit the problem	01:47
Samus_Aran	How can I check why my contact form is not sending an e-mail to the To and Cc addresses ?	01:48
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: Either a mail server or a spectre problem	01:49
Samus_Aran	it only saves the data on the page	01:49
Samus_Aran	perlDreamer: does it use sendmail to send it, or Perl directly, or what ?	01:49
+perlDreamer	It uses what you told it to in the site Settings	01:49
Samus_Aran	is there a log file that would show an error ?	01:49
+perlDreamer	yes	01:49
+perlDreamer	webgui.log	01:49
Samus_Aran	okay, will look for site settings	01:49
+perlDreamer	although, if spectre isn't running, then the workflow to send the emails won't run either	01:50
Samus_Aran	Spectre is fine now	01:52
Samus_Aran	after adding the external IP	01:52
Samus_Aran	I see in Settings under the Messaging tab "SMTP Server" set to "localhost". it doesn't have options for port numbers or authentication	01:53
Samus_Aran	I guess I will have to set up a localhost mail server to relay	01:53
Samus_Aran	I don't think the server has one currently	01:54
+perlDreamer	i'd bet you can type anything you want in there	01:54
* cap10morgan is disabling Database cache on all his sites		01:54
Samus_Aran	the mail server we use here requires user/pass authentication and a non-standard port	01:54
* nuba sent a mail asking for the admin of http://chl.be/mascots/ to add gooey there		01:54
nuba	and now meet ..	01:55
-!- GoeyOfSteel [n=puppetma@hq.imaterial.org] has joined #webgui		01:55
Samus_Aran	gooey meat.	01:55
nuba	this is another irssi in my box, which will be my bot	01:55
-!- GoeyOfSteel is now known as GooeyOfSteel		01:55
nuba	better now	01:55
nuba	instead of the defunct project2501, which somehow wasnt very popular here	01:56
nuba	GooeyOfSteel: hello	01:57
@apeiron	Your puppet master seems the taciturn sort.	01:57
nuba	i added eliza to it once, let me check..	01:58
nuba	he was very talkative by then...	01:58
@apeiron	Or she. :o	01:58
nuba	the idea was to somehow extract more info from people coming here asking for help	01:58
nuba	to make troubleshooting easier, after the people had already been milked out of information about their issues :)	01:59
nuba	it didnt worked as I thought it could, it was a good idea for a startup, unfortunately i forgot to add buzzwords like web2.0 and AJAX to help sell the idea, you know?..	02:00
@apeiron	nuba, Depending upon the strategy you want to take with it (active vs passive seeding), you may want to take a look at the infobot code.	02:01
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: I'm guessing all that can be specified, but I have no idea how to do it.	02:02
@preaction	perlDreamer, Samus_Aran: no. it's not. it would be a relatively painless RFE though	02:04
Samus_Aran	okay	02:05
Samus_Aran	thank you both	02:05
Samus_Aran	infobot is nice	02:05
Samus_Aran	once it gets a large database, that is	02:05
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: submit the RFE, wait for it to be approved, then dump a little karma into it	02:05
Samus_Aran	is there some way to sort the menu items (flexmenu) ?	02:06
Samus_Aran	also, where are the descriptions used, when you create a page ?	02:06
Samus_Aran	in the sitemap, or search or what ?	02:07
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@preaction	it's available to the template, so most anywhere. it's indexed too, so search yes	02:09
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GooeyOfSteel	GooeyOfSteel: breathe!	02:12
nuba	oops	02:12
nuba	GooeyOfSteel: breathe!	02:12
GooeyOfSteel	nuba: Please go on.	02:13
nuba	there is eliza again.. now onto the wiki update things...	02:13
* apeiron hands nuba the +5 mace of recalcitrant bot subdoing.		02:13
@apeiron	er, subduing	02:13
+perlDreamer	oh no, I think subdoing is much more appropriate for a bot	02:14
GooeyOfSteel	perlDreamer: Why?	02:15
metanil	to make a new template variable available in the template, where should i add it? like $var{newtemplatevar} = "val"; .. where should i do this?	02:15
+perlDreamer	bots are subs doing stuff	02:15
nuba	perlDreamer: you must prefix your phrases with 'GooeyOfSteel: '	02:16
@apeiron	nuba, I have an RFE for your bot!	02:16
nuba	in case you want to talk with GooeyOfSteel...	02:16
+perlDreamer	GooeyOfSteel: bots are subs doing stuff	02:16
GooeyOfSteel	perlDreamer: Did you think they might not be subs doing stuff?	02:16
+perlDreamer	GooeyOfSteel: That is the core concern of any programmer, but you already knew that	02:16
GooeyOfSteel	perlDreamer: Oh, I already knew that?	02:17
+perlDreamer	GooeyOfSteel: Of course. Aren't you self-aware?	02:17
GooeyOfSteel	perlDreamer: Oh, I self-aware?	02:17
@apeiron	s/GooeyOfSteel/GumbyBRAIN/g	02:18
+perlDreamer	indeed	02:20
@apeiron	perlDreamer, You've met Gumby?	02:20
+perlDreamer	Like the bendy green guy?	02:21
@apeiron	Not quite.	02:21
Samus_Aran	what was Gumby's horse's name ?	02:21
+perlDreamer	Pokie?	02:22
Samus_Aran	yes.	02:22
Samus_Aran	can someone remind me what the item is called that is used for News ? I accidentally got it removed (I cut it to paste somewhere else, then restarted WebGUI and it went poof)	02:23
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Samus_Aran	I just realised that I only want one set of data, for both the events calendar and the news items, as there is overlap	02:27
Samus_Aran	not sure how I could do that, though	02:27
+perlDreamer	pull RSS/Ical from the Events Calendar as you news feed?	02:28
Samus_Aran	basically one view of the data in month view, and another view of the data in most recent	02:28
Samus_Aran	I mean, a plain list	02:29
+perlDreamer	The calendar doesn't do a list view yet.	02:29
Samus_Aran	if I tell it to export an RSS, can I get a item-by-item listing from that using another plugin ?	02:30
* perlDreamer decides to double check whether the calendar supports RSS before answering		02:31
@preaction	no	02:31
@preaction	just iCal	02:31
@preaction	but you can make RSS out of any asset using shortcuts and template overrides	02:31
+perlDreamer	are we still planning a general RSS solution for Assets?	02:32
Samus_Aran	it seems that news and events would go together for many people	02:32
+perlDreamer	to replace RSSCapable and RSSFromParent?	02:32
Samus_Aran	I mean, any upcoming event is a newsworthy item	02:32
+Radix-wrk	the collaboration system has an rss mode doesn't it?	02:34
@preaction	Samus_Aran, please. if you have RFEs, post them to the RFE list. complaining about WebGUI's shortcomings here is counter-productive. patches are welcome.	02:34
@preaction	Radix-wrk, yes. same with Syndicated Content assets	02:34
Samus_Aran	any idea why the heading used for News is more prominent than that used by Calendar ?	02:34
+Radix-wrk	prolly just different css used in each	02:35
+Radix-wrk	you can change that through the template easily enough	02:35
+Radix-wrk	Is the Thingy in 7.5.x yet?	02:35
Samus_Aran	News uses <h2> and Calendar uses <h1>	02:35
+perlDreamer	It's just the default template	02:36
Samus_Aran	they should both be of the same importance	02:36
+Radix-wrk	file it as a bug then	02:36
@preaction	or edit the template and attach a package to the bug	02:39
Samus_Aran	I just checked, and all other objects in my site are using <h2>, so it is the calendar that is doing it wrong	02:39
Samus_Aran	where is the template ?	02:39
+Radix-wrk	edit calendar, go to display tab and select edit next to the calendar template	02:40
+Radix-wrk	easiest way would be to get rid of the title altogether tho :)	02:41
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+Radix-wrk	looks like you'd need to edit each different view of the calendar otherwise	02:42
Samus_Aran	I updated the 4 views. quite easy, thank you	02:46
@preaction	a note: if you edited the default templates, they can be overwritten by an upgrade. or you could submit the bug report and attach your changed templates	02:47
@preaction	or you could copy the default templates and make changes to your copies	02:47
Samus_Aran	how do I stop an item from taking over the page ? e.g. on my "News & Events" page I have a News section then a Calendar section. if any of the items on the calendar are clicked on, such as changing the view, it leaves the page and never goes back	02:49
Samus_Aran	I don't want an end user seeing any of the sub-pages	02:50
Samus_Aran	I mean, single components	02:50
@preaction	didn't we discuss this last night? I know radix shared your sentiments, but it's not possible to do what you want and still get any functionality	02:53
@preaction	okay, it is possible, but the resulting URLs would be horrendous	02:54
@preaction	i believe i gave examples using the collaboration system	02:54
Samus_Aran	I'm not concerned about the URLs, I am concerned about the end user being yanked out of the page they are in the middle of and being confused about how to get the rest of the content on the page	02:56
Samus_Aran	if someone is scrolling down a page somewhere in the middle, and click a tab on a calendar, the rest of the page shouldn't magically disappear on them	02:56
Samus_Aran	I haven't seen other web sites behave that way	02:57
perlmonkey2	Okay, I need to start joining the survey system into WG. Is the wiki wobject guide + skeleton still the best way to learn how to create wobjects?	02:57
nuba	perlmonkey2: cool!	02:59
@preaction	perlmonkey2, yes, for the most part. i've been told that the Gallery is the pinnacle of WebGUI development (i was told to build it as such), so look there for style and ideas on how to do permissions and such	02:59
perlmonkey2	hah, cool until you realize how complicated WG is	02:59
@preaction	the skeleton is a bit out of date. there are better ways to do some things	03:00
perlmonkey2	preaction: thanks :)	03:00
@preaction	i've been meaning to fix it, but no time (Gallery not done yet)	03:00
perlmonkey2	preaction: that is what I thought. I've looked at code and the skeleton and they don't match up well.	03:00
@preaction	the gallery, galleryalbum and photo assets do things the best way we currently know how	03:01
perlmonkey2	I don't see a Gallery? Only the galleryalbulm and utility?	03:02
perlmonkey2	I don't see a photo either	03:02
perlmonkey2	not in the source tree yet?	03:02
@preaction	they're in there	03:03
@preaction	lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Gallery.pm lib/WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm	03:03
perlmonkey2	preaction: wow.....I just did svn update 1 hour ago and I'm not seeing that....let me re update	03:03
perlmonkey2	okay, found Photo.pm	03:04
Samus_Aran	any idea why, when I have "filter code: nothing" it still doesn't display ^c; as the company name ? this is on a news item displayed as a weblog	03:05
perlmonkey2	but Gallery.pm isn't showing up ofr me	03:05
* perlmonkey2 wonders off to try to fix his subversion checkout		03:05
perlmonkey2	preaction: you just submitted another version, yet I still can't get svn to get that file. I can see it by browsing to the directory. Strange.	03:11
@preaction	weird indeed	03:11
@preaction	maybe try a full checkout in another directory?	03:11
perlmonkey2	hmm, reverted to a previous version then updated, and got it.	03:15
@preaction	weird	03:15
Samus_Aran	more issues with the weblog display for news: it only displays 8 words, instead of a couple paragrahs, before the "more" link	03:16
Samus_Aran	*paragraphs	03:16
Samus_Aran	where would I go to increase this limit ?	03:16
Samus_Aran	I don't see anything in the template	03:17
CIA-21	WebGUI: doug * r5416 /WebGUI/ (7 files in 5 dirs):	03:18
CIA-21	WebGUI: add: i18n for more Gallery templates	03:18
CIA-21	WebGUI: add: International macro now takes sprintf arguments as third and subsequent parameters	03:18
CIA-21	WebGUI: add: Keywords are now processed and given to the photo template, along with a url to search the gallery for the keyword.	03:18
CIA-21	WebGUI: add: Photos now track views	03:18
CIA-21	WebGUI: doug * r5417 /WebGUI/docs/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fix: multiple Gallery template fixes	03:18
perlmonkey2	Samus_Aran: Good question. What's the template name and I'll look at it.	03:19
Samus_Aran	weblog under news	03:19
perlmonkey2	an asset search for weblog brings back one template "weblog". Is that it?	03:20
Samus_Aran	Collaboration System Template: Weblog	03:20
perlmonkey2	k	03:20
Samus_Aran	yes	03:20
perlmonkey2	looks like <tmpl_var synopsis> is being set in the wobject	03:21
+Radix-wrk	tmpl_var synopsis usually picks up everything until the first newline in the text from memory	03:22
@preaction	or up to the ^; marker (i think that's what it is)	03:23
+Radix-wrk	^-; ?	03:23
@preaction	yeah, that	03:23
+Radix-wrk	It's something funny like that	03:23
perlmonkey2	the word synopsis shows up three times in the wobject.....I have no idea what is going on in any three.	03:23
perlmonkey2	only that one is an rss item.	03:23
Samus_Aran	"The ^c; beta web site is now up"\	03:24
Samus_Aran	*all	03:24
Samus_Aran	that is aklk it shows for me	03:24
perlmonkey2	$var->{"synopsis.label"} = $i18n->get("synopsis");	03:24
Samus_Aran	it also doesn't conver the ^c; into a company name, even with filters set to none	03:24
Samus_Aran	*convert	03:24
Samus_Aran	(this laptop keyboard sucks)	03:24
+Radix-wrk	is the c macro listed in your webgui.conf file?	03:25
+Radix-wrk	it might be disabled by default for some wierd reason	03:25
Samus_Aran	I will look	03:25
perlmonkey2	Samus_Aran: Just ot make sure I'm lookin at the right part of the template, the very next thing after the synopsis text, is the weblogReadMore div?	03:25
Samus_Aran	Radix-wrk: where would webgui.conf normally reside ?	03:28
Samus_Aran	I have a $PREFIX/etc/WebGUI.conf.original, but don't see any WebGUI.conf or webgui.conf file. I don't recall instructions telling me to create that one	03:29
Samus_Aran	I created one for my domain and one for spectre and one for logging	03:30
Samus_Aran	perlmonkey2: <tmpl_var synopsis> \n <div class="weblogReadMore">	03:30
Samus_Aran	where would I find the code for: $i18n->get("synopsis"); being called in "lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Collaboration.pm"	03:33
perlmonkey2	That's whI have no idea how the synopsis is created. I created a entry. then changed the text of the entry. The synopsis still shows the original ocntent even after I cleared the cache and forced a reload.	03:34
Samus_Aran	hm	03:35
Samus_Aran	a simpler question: how do I create a page under another ?	03:36
Samus_Aran	I don't get what a Folder is versus a Page Layout	03:36
perlmonkey2	you create page layouts	03:36
perlmonkey2	a page layouts contains assets	03:36
Samus_Aran	is a Page Layout an asset ?	03:36
perlmonkey2	they are what you might consider a "folder"	03:36
perlmonkey2	yes	03:36
perlmonkey2	it will be added to the nav bar and will be a "web page"	03:37
Samus_Aran	and what is the WebGUI Folder ?	03:37
perlmonkey2	that can contain articles, weblogs	03:37
perlmonkey2	whatever	03:37
perlmonkey2	a real file folder	03:37
perlmonkey2	well	03:37
perlmonkey2	a virtual file folder	03:37
Samus_Aran	a real virtual file folder	03:37
Samus_Aran	heh	03:37
perlmonkey2	for assets	03:37
Samus_Aran	so how does it differ from a Page Layout ?	03:37
+Radix-wrk	it's more for displaying lists of things	03:38
+Radix-wrk	like lists of files or the like	03:38
perlmonkey2	where can I find posts to the collab in the database?	03:45
perlmonkey2	This is so weird. I can not make the new submission to the collab system show up in the synopsys.	03:47
perlmonkey2	hmm, I'm guessing clearing the cache doens't effect all wobjects	03:51
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Samus_Aran	is there any way to rearrange the order of pages after they are placed ?	04:14
Samus_Aran	the order in which they appear in the flexmenu	04:14
Samus_Aran	I suppose it's not that hard to cut all the pages, then repaste them in the order I want	04:16
* perlmonkey2 is still trying to figure out the synopsis. I just don't see what is happening in the code.		04:18
perlmonkey2	Samus_Aran: In the asset menu	04:19
perlmonkey2	you can drag and drop them	04:19
perlmonkey2	which effects how the nav asset displays them.	04:19
Samus_Aran	perlmonkey2: I just figured out something about the synopsis	04:24
perlmonkey2	Do tell :)	04:24
Samus_Aran	strangely, when you edit the weblog entry, it only displays a subject and body	04:25
Samus_Aran	but if you go to preview, it then shows a "summary"	04:25
Samus_Aran	which is the synopsis	04:25
Samus_Aran	so it isn't actually cutting it down, it seems	04:25
Samus_Aran	it was a field hidden to me	04:25
* Samus_Aran goes to confirm it is only appearing after a preview		04:25
perlmonkey2	ah	04:26
perlmonkey2	I'm in preview and don't see a "summary".	04:26
Samus_Aran	hm. well it seems to be showing up now, but I know I didn't type in half a sentence before	04:26
Samus_Aran	I'm not really sure what's going on with it	04:26
Samus_Aran	I see it any time I go to edit now	04:27
* perlmonkey2 goes to make sure his gui privleges are maxed		04:28
perlmonkey2	I wonder why I don't see it.	04:28
perlmonkey2	you are using the weblog template?	04:28
perlmonkey2	I only see Subject Message evne if I click preview	04:29
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* perlmonkey2 hates when he accidently logs out		04:31
Samus_Aran	yes, using the weblog template. however, I used another template at the start, and it imported data to the next template	04:32
Samus_Aran	and each time it did that, it seemed to randomly do things to the data	04:32
Samus_Aran	I think that switching through all the templates messed up my article	04:32
perlmonkey2	In the database I can find the synopsis I see in the wobject table, but the complete post I can not find there. I can't find it in any table.	04:32
perlmonkey2	I have no idea which table submissions are stored.	04:33
Samus_Aran	it just suddenly appeared for me when I went to preview	04:33
Samus_Aran	and now everything is fine	04:33
Samus_Aran	try switching to another template such as guestbook, when you already have a submission	04:33
Samus_Aran	or Q/A, etc.	04:33
Samus_Aran	I tried them all before I decided to stick with weblog	04:34
Samus_Aran	and half of them displayed the entry strangely	04:34
Samus_Aran	including inserting a line break in the middle of a sentence, which was not visible in the web form editing the text	04:34
Samus_Aran	e.g. "this is a sentence" in the edit box, and when it was displayed on the list of news items, it showed up as: "this is"	04:35
Samus_Aran	"a sentence"	04:35
Samus_Aran	it seems that the various templates are not using the same exact variables	04:35
perlmonkey2	Hah, I am pretty sure I know where the synopsis is coming from now. PrepareView is a wrapper for the rss call. What you are seing on front is created by the rss feed.	04:35
Samus_Aran	or not using them in the same way	04:35
Samus_Aran	it would be nice if there were a way to change the date of the news items	04:37
Samus_Aran	sometimes you want to post a few hours or days away	04:38
perlmonkey2	I think the Webgui structure is far too complicated to understand without documentation.	04:40
perlmonkey2	Trying to track down how this rss call is working is sending me all over the place	04:40
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perlmonkey2	And still, I can never find where synopsis is set.	04:42
perlmonkey2	this really sucks.	04:42
perlmonkey2	Well I'm not sure it even works as I'm still getting the synopsis from my first post even though I've changed it.	04:46
perlmonkey2	Well this sucks....Plone isn't very useful and I can never get WebGUI to work.	04:47
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perlmonkey2	Yay, found a problem in the webgui.log	04:49
perlmonkey2	looks like a permissions issue in my uploads directory.	04:50
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perlmonkey2	main::[[undef]] - Could not instanciate object using new on WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Collaboration. The result is undefined. at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Instance.pm line 322	04:53
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manishmanish	hi	06:54
+Radix-wrk	hi	07:07
manishmanish	I'm new to webgui	07:08
manishmanish	So, I'm d/ling, instsalling it now	07:08
manishmanish	may have questions, but looks like an amazing promising system	07:08
+Radix-wrk	good luck! :)	07:08
manishmanish	:)	07:08
+Radix-wrk	It's good.. installation can be awkward sometimes.. but it's worth it imho :)	07:09
manishmanish	are there any plugins to allow checking for Domain Names?	07:10
manishmanish	in the cms itself?	07:10
manishmanish	i know, it's a wierd question :>	07:10
+perlDreamer	What do you mean by "checking for Domain Names"?	07:14
manishmanish	as in, within the CMS, i can test if a certain domain name is taken or not	07:15
+perlDreamer	no, that's the job of a domain registrar	07:18
+perlDreamer	we manage content	07:19
manishmanish	'k	07:20
manishmanish	brb	07:23
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manishmanish	back	07:45
manishmanish	:)	07:45
manishmanish	ok the million dollar question	07:47
manishmanish	joomla vs webgui	07:47
manishmanish	<i'm evaluating cms's, and leaning towards web gui>	07:47
manishmanish	but want to make sure right tool, right job	07:47
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@apeiron	manishmanish, As per your question, while I'm not going to offer advice one way or the other, I can offer a site that'll hopefully help you decide: cmsmatrix.org	07:52
manishmanish	ok thanks apeiron	07:52
manishmanish	i appreciate that	07:52
@apeiron	manishmanish, I do have to concede that it is running WebGUI underneath (as you can see by looking at the page source) but there's a lot of info there.	07:53
manishmanish	whoah	07:53
manishmanish	'kay buddy, i'm sold	07:56
manishmanish	webgui it is	07:56
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Samus_Aran	sigh. WebGUI is back to being slow, but more importantly it is locked again	07:57
* Samus_Aran goes to find out what's wrong with Spectre this time		07:57
GooeyOfSteel	manishman: make sure you spend time playing with live demos of both	07:59
Samus_Aran	there doesn't seem to be any spectre errors	07:59
Samus_Aran	yet there are locks on various content	07:59
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Samus_Aran	and nowhere to approve/set that content as active	08:00
Samus_Aran	I already committed all changes	08:00
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, Are there any other users that have open version tags?	08:02
manishman	gooey i will	08:02
manishman	anyone here install this on a mac?	08:02
@apeiron	manishman, WebGUI yes.	08:02
Samus_Aran	apeiron: I am setting it up, there are no other users	08:02
manishman	apeiron cool	08:02
@apeiron	manishman, If by Mac you mean OSX. :)	08:02
manishman	yap	08:02
manishman	os x	08:02
manishman	:>	08:02
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, hmm.	08:03
Samus_Aran	when it was locked before, it was because Spectre was broken. but I have fixed the Spectre issue now, no errors about it in the log file	08:04
Samus_Aran	it was working an hour ago from work	08:04
Samus_Aran	now I am connecting from home (outside the LAN) and it's in slow motion and I can't commit changes properly	08:04
Samus_Aran	Permission denied: This Asset is locked for editing under a version tag different from the one that you are using.	08:06
Samus_Aran	blah.	08:06
Samus_Aran	version tags are all empty, and it says: You are currently working under a tag called: None.	08:06
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, And under the "manage version tags" menu you don't see any tags, right?	08:07
@preaction	Pending Version Tags in the right-hand side under the Version Tags icon of the Admin Console	08:07
@preaction	er.. manage pending version tags i think	08:08
Samus_Aran	there are two autotags there. I opened one of them and clicked deleted, but there are still two	08:08
Samus_Aran	I have now deleted everything inside those two autotags	08:10
Samus_Aran	but they are still there	08:10
@preaction	pending means that it's waiting on spectre. did you restart spectre? did it get its data correctly?	08:10
@preaction	if that worked, those assets shouldn't be locked anymore	08:10
Samus_Aran	under the "Manage pending versions"	08:10
Samus_Aran	how do I remove the two autotags ?	08:10
nuba	Samus_Aran: how's spectre's status, from the prompt?	08:10
@preaction	but the pending tags will still be there until spectre gets a hold of them (no big deal really)	08:11
@preaction	if you want to skip spectre in versioning, go to Settings and under Content > Default Workflow choose "Commit Content Immediately". then spectre won't enter the equation at all	08:11
Samus_Aran	# perl spectre.pl --status	08:11
Samus_Aran	Unable to connect to 127.0.0.1:32323: Connection refused	08:11
Samus_Aran	sigh. Spectre was working fine for hours	08:12
Samus_Aran	I've restarted it a few times now, but it won't work anymore	08:12
-!- cap10morgan [n=cap10mor@206-124-6-111.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has quit []		08:13
@preaction	what does cd /data/WebGUI/sbin; perl spectre.pl --run --debug say?	08:15
nuba	launching GooeyOfSteel's wiki watch feature....	08:15
Samus_Aran	preaction: after launching Apache, you mean ?	08:18
@preaction	of course, apache, mysql. shut down spectre from the wreservice.pl script, and then run it using the command above	08:18
@preaction	it will show you a lot of stuff, but the stuff at the beginning is most important	08:18
@preaction	i suspect if it CAN connect, then something's going wrong with yoursite.com?op=spectreGetSiteData	08:19
@preaction	it should return a string of JSON that spectre will parse. if it's broken, it will show up as your home page	08:19
@preaction	sorry to cut in and run, but i've got a very long day ahead of me and i got no sleep last night. good luck	08:20
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: WebGUI Search System - Edited on 2/6/2008 11:30 pm by knowmad http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/webgui-search-system	08:21
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: WebGUI Statistics - Created on 2/6/2008 10:43 pm by knowmad http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/webgui-statistics	08:21
nuba	from now on every wiki update gets posted here	08:21
@apeiron	That may be a lot of traffic.	08:23
nuba	nope, check http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki?func=recentChanges	08:23
nuba	wiki isnt that lively	08:24
nuba	unfortunately	08:24
Samus_Aran	preaction: "perl spectre.pl --run --debug" didn't fail	08:24
@apeiron	So maybe notthat much.	08:24
Samus_Aran	why did you use --run and not --daemon ?	08:24
nuba	now, when people come here for help, and we them for 'please write what youve learned at the wiki', we'll all know if they did it or not	08:25
nuba	we ask them*	08:25
@apeiron	--run Starts Spectre without forking it as a daemon.	08:25
@apeiron	(which means it won't detach from the terminal so you can see errors it gets)	08:25
Samus_Aran	when I used --daemon it was still printing errors to the console	08:28
@apeiron	Arguably, if spectre is dying for some unknown reason and isn't leaving anything in its wake in the logs, then you'll need to see if it's spitting anything to STDERR before going to the big garbage collector in the sky.	08:28
@apeiron	Possibly before it fully dissociated itself?	08:28
Samus_Aran	several seconds later	08:28
Samus_Aran	lemme try again and see	08:28
Samus_Aran	it is working now, it got rid of those empty version tags	08:29
Samus_Aran	is there a proper way to stop it when it is started with --run ?	08:29
Samus_Aran	just Ctrl+C ?	08:29
nuba	well, kill -9 PID does the job too :)	08:30
@apeiron	I'd personally keep it running that way for a while and see if the issue you're experiencing with it dying intermittently comes up again.	08:30
Samus_Aran	what does this mean:	08:30
Samus_Aran	WORKFLOW: Looks like WBQIpZfKZe1kDQZ5TG_6ZQ at priority 23 would be a good workflow instance to run.	08:30
@apeiron	You don't want to start it normally again and then several hours later have it die and then wish you had it in debug mode still. :)	08:30
Samus_Aran	WORKFLOW: Preparing to run workflow instance WBQIpZfKZe1kDQZ5TG_6ZQ.	08:30
Samus_Aran	that popped up when I wasn't doing anything on the site	08:31
Samus_Aran	okay, sounds fine	08:31
Samus_Aran	it is running in GNU Screen, so I can reconnect to the server later if it messes up	08:31
@apeiron	spectre runs some stuff in the background independent of you doing anything on the site, like daily maintenance.	08:31
Samus_Aran	the screen session will log 3000 lines back, though that won't be that long considering it's spitting out 3 lines every 3 seconds	08:31
@apeiron	You can have screen write a hardcopy log of your session.	08:32
Samus_Aran	but the thing I pasted said "workflow instance"	08:32
@apeiron	Yes.	08:32
Samus_Aran	apeiron: I had forgotten all about that	08:32
* Samus_Aran goes to find the command		08:32
@apeiron	^a :log on	08:32
nuba	screen rocks!	08:33
Samus_Aran	I just did ^a :log	08:33
@apeiron	The bits of work that spectre does in the background -- at least part of it -- are coded in modules. These modules are workflow activities. :)	08:33
Samus_Aran	and it started logging	08:33
Samus_Aran	though it didn't let me choose a filename	08:33
Samus_Aran	hopefully I'll find it	08:33
Samus_Aran	hehe	08:33
Samus_Aran	nuba: screen is one of the greatest inventions of all time =)	08:34
GooeyOfSteel	it'll bein the folder you were when you started screen	08:34
Samus_Aran	nuba: I still kick myself for going years without trying it	08:34
+Radix-wrk	second that.. I'm a big screen fan	08:34
@apeiron	Hm, where you started screen?	08:34
Samus_Aran	and that was years ago	08:34
@apeiron	I thought it just put them in your home directory.	08:34
GooeyOfSteel	apeiron: anywhere	08:34
@apeiron	Although I guess I have a tendency to start screen immediately upon logging in so...	08:34
Samus_Aran	I use screen excessively	08:35
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, I don't have logins on this FreeBSD machine outside of screen.	08:35
Samus_Aran	I have all my screens with full English titles and often run out on Ubuntu (it limits to I think 36 screens)	08:35
@apeiron	36? wowser.	08:35
Samus_Aran	I compiled my own on my last distro, but haven't gotten around to doing so on Ubuntu yet	08:35
GooeyOfSteel	i use screen by subjects - mail + im + irc - dev - sysadmin - remote consoles - etc	08:36
@apeiron	If you're using xterms, you may want to look into screenwm.	08:36
nuba	forgot I was in GooeyOfSteel's irssi, not mine :/	08:36
Samus_Aran	my system is on for an average of 2 months at a time (before the nVIDIA driver leaks RAM and makes me crash or reboot)	08:36
@apeiron	(I make the suggestion of combining the two in xterms because of the high res you can get in xterm)	08:36
nuba	did you guys know scren can talk to a serial console directly?	08:36
Samus_Aran	I use one Gnome-Terminal with transparency	08:36
+Radix-wrk	I've been using screen since about 1993 :)	08:36
Samus_Aran	I didn't know screen existed in 1993	08:37
@apeiron	nuba, Interesting to know, though I've never had the need / hardware for it.	08:37
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Connection timed out]		08:37
nuba	its like kermit, only much nicer :)	08:37
+Radix-wrk	screen has been around for AGES	08:37
Samus_Aran	I use ICEWM as my desktop, and I fullscreen all my apps, including the terminal I'm in atm	08:37
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, If you're familiar with vim's split screen modes, you'd find screenwm very comfortable.	08:38
@apeiron	Although it's kinda.. fragile.	08:38
Samus_Aran	desktop 1 for my terminal apps, desktop 2 for Internet apps (web browsers, bittorrent), desktop 4 for word processing, 5 for GIMP	08:38
Samus_Aran	I love ICEWM's keyboard control	08:38
Samus_Aran	better than any other environment I've used	08:39
+Radix-wrk	I used to use screen back when I was mudding at uni - was handy to appear to be working on my C code when instead I was attacking orcs in the mud I played in back then :)	08:39
nuba	heh	08:39
Samus_Aran	I was using DOS in those days	08:39
Samus_Aran	I had Wishbringer, though. fun text adventure	08:39
+Radix-wrk	I got my first unix account in early 1993 - discovered muds shortly afterwards - grades subsequently dropped 20%.. doh	08:40
Samus_Aran	and the original Amulet of Yendor. precursor to Hack and NetHack	08:40
Samus_Aran	Radix-wrk: heh	08:40
+Radix-wrk	friend introduced me to linux around the same time	08:40
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, You mean the original rogue?	08:41
Samus_Aran	I gave up playing NetHack once I found Ancient Domains of Mystery. I still love playing that. I've been playing it off and on for I believe ten years now	08:41
+Radix-wrk	he was running coherent unix around that time	08:41
Samus_Aran	apeiron: I don't know if Amulet of Yendor or Rogue came out first, but the Rogue I played was more sophisticated than AoY	08:42
Samus_Aran	apeiron: Hack came after AoY, and once it became open source and worked on over the net, it turned into NetHack	08:42
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, I fooled around a bit with the original 4.4BSD rogue. Very, very basic. :)	08:42
+Radix-wrk	Sorry.. I seem to have gotten the conversation offtrack with those comments, but it brings back memories :)	08:42
Samus_Aran	apeiron: I think I have that on my Palm Pilot, hehe	08:43
Samus_Aran	apeiron: it is... very bad.	08:43
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, I have everything from the original rogue to recent versions of nethack, slashem, Linley's Dungeon Crawl, and many *bands installed here.	08:43
Samus_Aran	apeiron: have you never tried ADOM, or avoid it because it isn't open source ?	08:43
+Radix-wrk	lol	08:43
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, Tried it. More a fan of the open source games. :)	08:44
+Radix-wrk	telengard ftw	08:44
Samus_Aran	I haven't played NetHack for more than about an hour since I got into ADOM	08:44
Samus_Aran	ADOM has a way better plot, extreme character development and moral development, numerous quests, wilderness maps and way more realism than NetHack	08:45
@apeiron	Roguelike with a plot? No way!	08:45
Samus_Aran	I dislike how NetHack literally had the kitchen sink. all over the place. even has Terminators and Barney	08:45
Samus_Aran	far more realism in ADOM in that regard. monsters all have very nicely written, imaginative descriptions	08:46
Samus_Aran	and if you decide on a career of evil, you will have few friends and the game is way harder	08:47
Samus_Aran	the ending for evil is to become a Chaos God. never come close to that ending, so difficult. but without any spoilers or save-cheating, I beat ADOM as good	08:47
Samus_Aran	took me a few years =p	08:48
Samus_Aran	on a good game of ADOM, my character lasts about a week	08:48
GooeyOfSteel	anyone played a mind forever voyaging?	08:48
Samus_Aran	of playing too much each day	08:48
Samus_Aran	GooeyOfSteel: not I\	08:49
@apeiron	Dammit. There's the inspiration to write my own game again.	08:49
nuba	nowadays, there are good text adventures/interactive fiction for free	08:49
@apeiron	Radix-wrk, See what you started?!	08:49
Samus_Aran	I find that in ADOM, because of the character development and length of gameplay, you get really attached to the character (investing all that time in it), so the fights in ADOM get very epic	08:49
nuba	and there are good apps like Gargoyle now, which makes the experience much better	08:49
Samus_Aran	I was looking at that game engine that encourages people to make their own games. I forget the name, but it may have been "make your own game", heh. some very creative stuff made with it	08:50
Samus_Aran	text adventures and graphical games alike	08:50
+Radix-wrk	lucasarts scumm	08:51
+Radix-wrk	those games rocked :)	08:51
Samus_Aran	lots of scumm players for *nix	08:51
nuba	theres a bunch of languages for writing interactive fiction too	08:51
nuba	for zork and alikes	08:51
+Radix-wrk	yeah, there's a scummvm for almost every platform known to man.. tis great :)	08:51
Samus_Aran	apeiron: ADOM has extreme character development. not just stats (though there are dozens of things to advance), but the moral choices your character makes really expands the game	08:52
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, Huh, interesting.	08:52
Samus_Aran	apeiron: and you get corrupted as time goes by, the closer you get to the source of the chaos that is seeping into the land. corruptions are things like growing hooves, sulphuric acid dripping from your fingers, your brain growing several times larger, etc.	08:53
Samus_Aran	the corruptions are both good and bad, and by the end of the game you are one messed up ugly f---er	08:53
Samus_Aran	you really feel the effect of these corruptions, it makes you want to hurry up and get through the game	08:54
nuba	contemporary interactive fiction, for free http://www.ifwiki.org/index.php/XYZZY_Awards_2006	08:54
Samus_Aran	one of the most annoying is a dark aura. creatures randomly run screaming from you in fear... and shopkeepers come and attack you for chasing away their customers =p	08:54
Samus_Aran	nuba: /me checks it otu	08:54
Samus_Aran	*out	08:54
Samus_Aran	apeiron: the one time I did beat ADOM, my character was such a mess of corruptions that my ending resulted in roughly:	08:57
Samus_Aran	"You make your way home to your village, where you become an outcast. Shunned by your friends and family, you die alone and miserable. But you saved the world."	08:57
@apeiron	heh heh	08:57
@apeiron	And on that note, bedtime for me.	08:57
Samus_Aran	I want to beat it again, with a "happy" ending	08:57
Samus_Aran	there's also an ending for neutral characters, but I have no idea what it even is	08:58
Samus_Aran	apeiron: night	08:58
nuba	GooeyOfSteel: check hq.imaterial.org	09:02
GooeyOfSteel	hq.imaterial.org	09:02
nuba	not working..	09:02
nuba	GooeyOfSteel: check hq.imaterial.org	09:05
GooeyOfSteel	hq.imaterial.org Server: Apache/2.0.59 (Unix) WebGUI/7.5.2 mod_ssl/2.0.59 OpenSSL/0.9.7i mod_apreq2-20051231/2.5.7 mod_perl/2.0.2 Perl/v5.8.8	09:05
nuba	this is from the HTTP headers	09:06
nuba	i remember someone mentioned a while ago about having a bot with that here	09:06
nuba	to help with troubleshooting	09:07
nuba	there it is	09:07
nuba	GooeyOfSteel: check rm -rf /	09:07
GooeyOfSteel	rm-rf /	09:07
Samus_Aran	what exactly is "Manage pending versions." and why does WebGUI no longer just let me commit my changes for the last while all at once ?	09:08
Samus_Aran	there is no commit button on "Manage pending versions", it just shows items	09:08
Samus_Aran	it was automatically adding version tags for me before, now it just has "none" as the version tag	09:09
nuba	GooeyOfSteel: check rm -rf /	09:09
GooeyOfSteel	rm-rf /	09:09
Samus_Aran	GooeyOfSteel: check http://localhost/	09:09
GooeyOfSteel	http//localhost/	09:09
Samus_Aran	GooeyOfSteel: check localhost	09:09
GooeyOfSteel	localhost Server: Apache/2.0.59 (Unix) WebGUI/7.5.2 mod_ssl/2.0.59 OpenSSL/0.9.7i mod_apreq2-20051231/2.5.7 mod_perl/2.0.2 Perl/v5.8.8	09:09
Samus_Aran	GooeyOfSteel: check auk.ca	09:10
GooeyOfSteel	auk.ca Server: Apache/2.2.3 (Ubuntu) PHP/5.2.1 mod_ssl/2.2.3 OpenSSL/0.9.8c	09:10
Samus_Aran	it's nice and fast	09:10
Samus_Aran	my site has gone back to locking everything, and no way to approve it	09:13
Samus_Aran	sigh.	09:13
Samus_Aran	the Spectre is still running fine in debug mode	09:13
GooeyOfSteel	how many workflows you have there?	09:13
GooeyOfSteel	check with perl spectre.pl --status	09:13
Samus_Aran	I don't know what a workflow is	09:13
GooeyOfSteel	well whats the result of "perl spectre.pl --status \| wc -l" ?	09:14
Samus_Aran	Suspended Workflows 1	09:14
Samus_Aran	Waiting Workflows 0	09:14
Samus_Aran	Running Workflows 0	09:14
Samus_Aran	any idea why it would be suspended ?	09:14
Samus_Aran	what are "Manage pending versions" ?	09:15
GooeyOfSteel	i thought you may have been running into branch edits with lots of descendants. that happened with me once, total pain in the ass...	09:15
Samus_Aran	it keeps creating those and locks all my changes with no way to approve them	09:15
GooeyOfSteel	but its not the case	09:15
Samus_Aran	this is a very small site with only me as the user	09:15
Samus_Aran	this is so frustrating. I can't make any changes to the web site	09:16
GooeyOfSteel	i've no idea on what could be it	09:17
+Radix-wrk	GooeyOfSteel: check formsys.com	09:17
GooeyOfSteel	formsys.com Server: Apache/2.0.58 (Unix) WebGUI/7.0.8 mod_ssl/2.0.58 OpenSSL/0.9.7i mod_apreq2-20051231/2.5.7 mod_perl/2.0.2 Perl/v5.8.8	09:17
GooeyOfSteel	maybe a bug, did you consider upgrading to the lates stable?	09:17
+Radix-wrk	GooeyOfSteel: check juga.org	09:17
GooeyOfSteel	juga.org Server: Apache/2.0	09:17
GooeyOfSteel	Radix-wrk: GooeyOfSteel is me when I forget Im in another irssi	09:17
GooeyOfSteel	oops	09:17
nuba	i mean me	09:17
Samus_Aran	I am on the latest stable	09:18
Samus_Aran	it's my first install since 4.x	09:18
+Radix-wrk	GooeyOfSteel: check www.juga.org	09:18
GooeyOfSteel	www.juga.org Server: Apache/2.0	09:18
Samus_Aran	nuba: you should run that irssi as a different user and set a different theme	09:18
nuba	Radix-wrk: oh i thought you asked me to check the site for some interesting content	09:18
nuba	heh	09:18
Samus_Aran	e.g. a red status bar	09:18
+Radix-wrk	I was taking advantage of your check script :)	09:19
nuba	Samus_Aran: its a different screen session, logged as a different user	09:19
+Radix-wrk	interestingly enough - my home setup of webgui doesn't return anything other than apache	09:19
nuba	but yeah a different theme can help	09:19
nuba	Radix-wrk: you on WRE?	09:19
Samus_Aran	GooeyOfSteel: check plainblack.com	09:19
GooeyOfSteel	plainblack.com Server: Apache/2.0	09:19
+Radix-wrk	yeah	09:19
nuba	you can limit the amount of stuff apache spits out at the config	09:20
Samus_Aran	how the hell do I commit "pending versions" ?	09:20
+Radix-wrk	should be using 7.4.20 at home.. compiled wre myself	09:20
nuba	the lesser, the better	09:20
Samus_Aran	there are no commit buttons and they're all locked	09:20
+Radix-wrk	Samus_Aran: it's all done by Spectre	09:20
Samus_Aran	well why isn't spectre in debug mode showing any errors ? =/	09:20
+Radix-wrk	Spectre is the one that processes all commits, workflows, background tasks, etc	09:20
Samus_Aran	it says the workflow is suspended	09:21
+Radix-wrk	nothing in the normal webgui log file?	09:21
* Samus_Aran checks		09:21
Samus_Aran	Asset constructor new() requires an assetId.	09:22
Samus_Aran	Pass in object came back undefined for activity	09:22
Samus_Aran	about ten of those	09:22
+Radix-wrk	Hmm.. what version are you using?	09:22
nuba	'night guys, time to sleep, 5am already	09:23
Samus_Aran	latest stable as of Thursday	09:23
+Radix-wrk	nite nuba	09:23
Samus_Aran	manual install, not the WRE	09:24
Samus_Aran	it works fine for hours, then does odd things	09:24
+Radix-wrk	I used to get some wierd errors back before I started to use the WRE. Ones that noone else could reproduce :( Was one of the main reasons I ended up switching to the WRE.	09:25
+Radix-wrk	Some debian perl module I'd apt-getted had was causing mysterious things to happen that the WRE and other systems weren't getting I suspect.	09:26
Samus_Aran	there are thousands of systems out there running Apache, MySQL, Perl, PHP, etc. ... the WRE seems like such a bad idea	09:26
+Radix-wrk	not at all	09:26
Samus_Aran	effort should be put into a proper installer	09:26
Samus_Aran	not forcing people to give up all their services	09:26
+Radix-wrk	The WRE isn't perfect, but it's not hard to integrate it with other setups	09:27
Samus_Aran	running two copies of all the servers on the system is very inefficient	09:27
+Radix-wrk	And you can literally install a machine from scratch and have the wre up and running in under an hour.	09:27
Samus_Aran	and when the machine already exists, ...	09:28
Samus_Aran	it has a dozen web sites on it already	09:28
Samus_Aran	using the MySQL database	09:28
+Radix-wrk	yeah, well there's no easy way to integrate those setups	09:28
Samus_Aran	and that's my point, it should be easy	09:28
Samus_Aran	there's no reason the script can't just check the versions of the required components and let people know if their versions aren't okay	09:28
Samus_Aran	it already does this, but it is very fragile outside of the WRE	09:29
+Radix-wrk	well I think the main problem is the lack of developers outside plainblack working on webgui	09:29
+Radix-wrk	plainblack is keen to add more power and flexibility in webgui	09:30
Samus_Aran	the silly organisation I work for bought a very expensive rack mount server (which is sitting on a wood shelf). perhaps I should just run WebGUI in a virtual machine	09:30
+Radix-wrk	I do	09:30
+Radix-wrk	well.. not my production system, but I have a couple of virtual machine images I use for testing	09:31
Samus_Aran	seems a pain, though. having two distros to maintain, and CPU/RAM inefficient	09:31
+Radix-wrk	Feel free to help out if you can - we need more people working on webgui and improving it	09:31
Samus_Aran	how can I deal with the suspended workflow ?	09:31
Samus_Aran	"Last State: error"	09:31
+Radix-wrk	can you force it to run?	09:32
Samus_Aran	I don't know how	09:32
Samus_Aran	I've restarted Spectre but it had no effect	09:32
Samus_Aran	I'll try restarting Apache	09:32
+Radix-wrk	I'm not as familiar with the latest versions, but you should see a workflows tab in webgui	09:32
+Radix-wrk	and can see workflows that are stuck there and restart them manually	09:33
Samus_Aran	that's only in the WRE, isn't it ?	09:33
+Radix-wrk	no	09:33
Samus_Aran	okay	09:33
+Radix-wrk	Go to Workflows	09:34
+Radix-wrk	and 'Show Running Workflows' on the far right	09:34
+Radix-wrk	You can also get there by selecting Spectre from Admin Console it looks like	09:35
Samus_Aran	I restarted Apache and then Spectre, and now it worked	09:35
Samus_Aran	the pending changes went through	09:35
+Radix-wrk	cool	09:35
Samus_Aran	cool that it works, but not cool that it seems to do this at random =/	09:35
+Radix-wrk	agreed	09:35
+Radix-wrk	no idea how you'd find that out.. but you should at least be able to see in webgui itself if there are any suspended workflows	09:36
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ryuu_ro	morning	09:38
+Radix-wrk	heya	09:39
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Samus_Aran	sigh. it's doing the slow motion thing bad. I clicked on the button to add a new user, and 2 minutes later it still hasn't added the user	09:42
+Radix-wrk	wierd	09:42
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--- Log closed Tue Feb 12 10:25:46 2008
--- Log opened Tue Feb 12 10:43:28 2008
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CIA-20	WebGUI: graham * r5418 /WebGUI/ (lib/WebGUI/Macro/AdminToggle.pm docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt): fix: don't show Admin mode toggle when not in adminModeSubnets	12:33
CIA-20	WebGUI: graham * r5419 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Content/Setup.pm): fix regression: Site starter style displays incorrectly in IE	12:33
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SDuensin	Morning all.	16:53
BartJol	morning	16:54
AMH_bob	mornin'	16:59
+Radix_	nite :)	16:59
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perlmonkey2	Is the collaboration system hopelessly complicated or am I retarded for not being able to figure out how it works?	18:08
ckotil	i have it commented out, bc its always been a pain in my ass	18:15
ckotil	i uncommented it only last week , bc someone requested a 'blog' asset, and i immediately got workflow errors in webgui.log	18:16
ckotil	so i removed it yet again, and ill figure out something else for the blog	18:16
@khenn	the collab system is complicated, but once you understand it, it makes sense	18:17
@khenn	what are you having issues with?	18:17
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perlmonkey2	khenn I thought it would be a good learning experiment to track down how the post synopsis is created and stored and to try to change its length. I couldn't even figure out how it is created, let alone stored and then displayed.	18:22
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nuba	hi folks	18:43
nuba	GooeyOfSteel is the new wiki watcher bot	18:43
+perlDreamer	where does he log to, nuba?	18:44
manishman	morning	18:45
nuba	its a quick-n-simple hack, uses Tie::File to keep the array of updates in a file	18:45
nuba	and uses HTML::TreeBuilder to lookup the first <UL> in the content area of http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki?func=recentChanges	18:46
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: WebGUI Statistics - Created on 2/6/2008 10:43 pm by knowmad http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/webgui-statistics	18:47
khenn_	perlmonkey2: synopsis is part of each asset. It's stored automatically	18:47
nuba	that how it reports wiki activity	18:48
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nuba	thats*	18:48
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+perlDreamer	that's very bool	18:48
@khenn	I'd recommend using a macro if you want to change the way synopsis is displayed.	18:48
+perlDreamer	cool	18:48
nuba	GooeyOfSteel also has a "check" feature that may help while debugging problems of people that come here	18:48
@khenn	you'd have to change core WebGUI otherwise	18:48
nuba	GooeyOfSteel: check www.imaterial.org	18:49
GooeyOfSteel	www.imaterial.org Server: Apache/2.0.59 (Unix) WebGUI/7.4.19 mod_ssl/2.0.59 OpenSSL/0.9.7i mod_apreq2-20051231/2.5.7 mod_perl/2.0.2 Perl/v5.8.8	18:49
@rizen	that's sweet	18:49
nuba	hi rizen	18:49
@rizen	howdy	18:49
+perlDreamer	sounds like I'll have two competitors for Contributor of the Year :)	18:49
@khenn	how was lala land?	18:49
@rizen	still in it, they gave me something	18:50
@khenn	gave you something?	18:50
+perlDreamer	He's sick as a misconfigured Spectre?	18:50
@rizen	yeah, got some gunk in my head	18:50
@rizen	drainage	18:50
@rizen	i'm sure it will go away quickly	18:51
@rizen	i usually fight this stuff off pretty easily	18:51
nuba	is there info on perlbot usage anywhere?	18:51
nuba	perlbot, usage	18:51
nuba	perlbot, help	18:51
perlbot	(fact) : tell (who) about (what) : (what) > (who) : learn (what) as (info) : relearn (fact) as (info) : phone (phone #) : shorten (url) : shorten it : search (keyword) : cpan (module) : docs (module) : perldoc -f (function) : jargon (term) : math (expr): fortune : flip : host (type) (record) : rot13 (text) : roll (die) : tempconv (temp) : scramble (foo) : 8ball (question) : slap (who) : diss (who) : top/bottom (number) karma : geoip (ip)	18:51
nuba	CIA-20, help	18:52
nuba	CIA-20, usage	18:52
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wgGuest84	hello	19:07
wgGuest84	i try to run the spectre and show me the next error: ADMIN: [Error] Couldn't connect to WebGUI site www.liz.com.conf at http://www.liz.com:80/?op=spectreGetSiteData. Response: 500 Server closed connection without sending any data back	19:07
wgGuest84	what i must do?	19:07
nuba	perlbot: pastebin	19:10
perlbot	(see paste)	19:10
nuba	perlbot: pasteb	19:10
nuba	perlbot: paste	19:10
perlbot	Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl http://erxz.com/pb or http://p3m.org/pfn/perl and #Perl will be able to view it.	19:10
wgGuest84	http://pastebin.com/m651f5eb7	19:10
nuba	wgGuest84: that wasnt directed to you	19:11
nuba	im just listing the available pastebins	19:11
@apeiron	nuba, There's a 'search' keyword that you can use to find factoids matching a keyword.	19:12
wgGuest84	ok	19:12
nuba	apeiron: thx	19:12
wgGuest84	then what i do?	19:13
@khenn	check your www.liz.com.conf to make sure your spectre settings are correct. The 500 error could be anything really.	19:14
nuba	is xdanger the one mantaining logs available at http://mentalhouse.net/irc/logs/webgui/ ?	19:14
@preaction	nuba, yes	19:15
@khenn	is there anything in the modproxy or modperl error logs?	19:15
@khenn	if not, bump the log level to "INFO" and see what it says	19:15
@preaction	wgGuest84, also check the webgui.log. you may also want to try accessing that URL it says to and see what it responds with	19:15
wgGuest84	no responds	19:16
wgGuest84	spectre.conf - POE::Kernel::_dispatch_event[1012] - ADMIN: Couldn't connect to WebGUI site www.liz.com.conf at http://www.liz.com:80/?op=spectreGetSiteData. Response: 500 Server closed connection without sending any data back	19:16
@preaction	sounds like an apache problem	19:17
@khenn	yeah, what does it say in the modperl log?	19:17
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manishman	!@#$	19:22
wgGuest84	http://pastebin.com/m54935e01	19:22
wgGuest84	this is error.log from apache2	19:22
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@khenn	It's complaining about not being able to load Template.pm	19:24
@khenn	not sure if this is related	19:24
@khenn	did you make changes to it?	19:24
@khenn	does it compile?	19:24
wgGuest84	i don't understand	19:25
wgGuest84	i don't make changes	19:25
@khenn	well your apache log seems to indicate that Template.pm can't be loaded	19:25
wgGuest84	i just install and don't see my pages	19:25
@khenn	so either it's not there	19:25
@khenn	or it doesn't compile	19:25
wgGuest84	mmm ok	19:26
@khenn	have you run setEnvironment?	19:26
@preaction	khenn, the new webgui seems to try to load WebGUI::Asset::Template::TemplateToolkit and ::HTMLTemplateExpr automatically	19:26
@khenn	ie are you using the right Perl?	19:26
wgGuest84	testEnviroment	19:26
wgGuest84	yes	19:26
@preaction	without even having them in the webgui.conf	19:26
@khenn	hmm	19:26
@khenn	yeah that's a problem	19:26
@preaction	renaming those to .pm.disabled or something usually works to fix this problem	19:27
@preaction	but it's probably a bug	19:27
wgGuest84	and what i do?	19:29
wgGuest84	compile Template.pm?	19:29
+perlDreamer	preaction: preload.exclude	19:30
@preaction	oh, right	19:31
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+perlDreamer	rizen: <whine> there are no pictures in the SCALE tbb posting </whine>	19:35
@rizen	what?	19:38
@rizen	i see pictures	19:39
+perlDreamer	hm	19:39
@rizen	did you actually go into the posting	19:39
@rizen	to see the comments etc	19:39
@rizen	they don't show on the front page	19:39
+perlDreamer	No. If you go to pb.com/tbb, there's no direct link to the post	19:39
@rizen	only in the post	19:39
+perlDreamer	yeah	19:39
@rizen	yes	19:39
@rizen	click on comments	19:40
+perlDreamer	Okay, got it.	19:40
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+perlDreamer	I've started teaching BartJol testing	19:44
+perlDreamer	He's going to be a monster programmer soon	19:45
@rizen	excellent	19:45
@rizen	oh yeah, ihave to send an email to koen to make sure he brings bart to the wuc	19:45
@rizen	bart really wants to come but isn't sure if koen will bring him	19:46
@rizen	=)	19:46
+perlDreamer	He's gotta be there now	19:46
+perlDreamer	Who else is going to make pumpkin soup?	19:46
manishman	umm guys	19:53
manishman	i have an issue here with mysql	19:53
+perlDreamer	WRE mysql or system mysql?	19:54
manishman	well i had mysql installed for one of my apps, then installed wre	19:54
manishman	and now when i start the mysql instance for the apps, it keeps loading the wre data location	19:54
+perlDreamer	yup	19:54
manishman	so naturally	19:54
manishman	where do change it back to my original data location?	19:54
+perlDreamer	You can't run them both at once	19:54
+perlDreamer	one can only run one or the other	19:55
manishman	which is fine PD	19:55
manishman	how can i tell it to load mysql from my original location tho?	19:55
manishman	for the data?	19:55
manishman	it keeps loading data dir from wre location	19:55
+perlDreamer	I believe that if you shut down mysql, and replace the original /etc/my.conf and then restart that it should work.	19:55
manishman	'k	19:56
manishman	let me try it	19:56
manishman	thanks	19:56
manishman	it worked!	20:00
manishman	thanks PD	20:00
+perlDreamer	you're welcome, manishman	20:00
perlmonkey2	I wonder how hard it would be to port Plone's KSS to Perl. That is a really neat idea.	20:00
perlmonkey2	If I wanted to grok all the basics of wobject develoment, which is the best wobject to start studying? I've looked at the wiki and skeleton, but I want to start fleshing out my knowledge.	20:03
+perlDreamer	The Article	20:03
perlmonkey2	cool, thanks	20:03
+perlDreamer	The individual Wobjects are so individual that it's hard to pin down one	20:03
+perlDreamer	but the Article is the easiest.	20:04
+perlDreamer	Then Folder	20:04
+perlDreamer	Nav	20:04
@rizen	collab system is probably the most complex	20:04
@rizen	either that or EMS	20:04
+perlDreamer	The CS is the granddaddy of them all	20:04
perlmonkey2	rizen: the collab system made me cry.	20:04
perlmonkey2	I feared for my life.	20:04
+perlDreamer	it makes him cry, too	20:04
@rizen	indeed	20:04
@apeiron	perlmonkey2, One of the trials by fire of working for PB is that they drop you in the CS and tell you to write patches for it in your first few months. :)	20:05
nuba	heh	20:06
@preaction	mmmmmmmm collaboration system	20:06
perlmonkey2	hah....I guess that is sink or swim with a 50lb weight tied to your ankle :D	20:06
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: IRC - Edited on 2/12/2008 11:56 am by nuba http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/irc	20:06
+perlDreamer	nuba++	20:07
nuba	thx :)	20:07
@apeiron	nuba, Maybe make the bot autokarma people's names when they submit wiki changes, like the bots in #perl6 do for commits?	20:07
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+perlDreamer	perlbot: karma nuba	20:08
perlbot	Karma for nuba: 2	20:08
perlmonkey2	wow, nice wiki post.	20:08
nuba	i thought about that, but then people may have different nicks here on IRC and on webgui.org	20:08
+perlDreamer	it would involve more screen scraping, but people could keep their nicks in their WebGUI profiles	20:09
nuba	it would make things simpler	20:09
nuba	otherwise the bot would have to manage nick maps	20:09
nuba	did it once, for a punchclock irc bot, its some extra hassle..	20:10
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klnielsen	good morning all :D	20:11
Samus_Aran	morning	20:12
* Samus_Aran yawns		20:12
Samus_Aran	Just woke up.	20:12
dionak	morning	20:14
klnielsen	Samus - lucky!	20:15
manishman	ok i'm configuring webgui	20:17
manishman	it's saying you can test the mysql instance by running mysql-test-run.pl	20:17
manishman	where is this?	20:17
+perlDreamer	perhaps wre/sbin?	20:19
nuba	manishman: you could try 'find /data -name mysql-test-run.pl'	20:20
nuba	better: /data/wre	20:20
manishman	thanks nuba	20:21
manishman	hrm. it's not with this distro	20:22
@apeiron	Looks like it's part of the MySQL source.	20:28
manishman	yeah	20:30
manishman	apeiron: Got a few minutes to get me past a roadblock? I've been at it for a while now	20:31
@apeiron	manishman, Will try. :)	20:31
klnielsen	quick question: does anyone out there have any themes to recommend?	20:36
@preaction	there's a couple nice ones in the Get Add Ons section of WebGUI.org	20:37
klnielsen	I grabbed NonZero and Envision	20:41
klnielsen	thank you, as always, sir :)	20:41
klnielsen	Hope you and Apeiron weren't here too late on Friday	20:41
klnielsen	Sorry to be a bother, but where is the class icon of the page layout asset that is my home page?	20:51
+perlDreamer	Are you in Admin mode?	20:51
klnielsen	yes	20:51
+perlDreamer	There should be an editing bar. X Edit Cut Copy Swoosh	20:51
klnielsen	I got through the first list of steps on how to change one's theme, but...	20:51
+perlDreamer	To the left of the X is the Page Layout Class icon	20:52
nuba	icons are in /extras/assets/layout.gif and /extras/assets/small/layout.gif	20:52
klnielsen	ummm	20:52
klnielsen	sorry	20:52
klnielsen	I am trying to do the first step in the second list on this page: http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/how-to-install-a-webgui-site-theme	20:53
klnielsen	what page am I on when I am doing this?	20:53
nuba	okay	20:53
nuba	you will be doing a "branch edit"	20:53
klnielsen	the page where I uploaded the wgpkg?	20:53
nuba	that means that the asset and every descendent will be edit	20:54
nuba	you will click and select "branch edit" in the small icon to the left of the editing toolbar of the asset	20:54
klnielsen	which asset?	20:54
nuba	that only appears with admin mode on	20:54
klnielsen	am I on the assets page?	20:54
nuba	you can do that from the assets manager, or from browsing the site with admin on	20:55
klnielsen	ah	20:55
klnielsen	best practices are?	20:55
nuba	go to the highest page in the hierarchy from where you want to apply the change, including it	20:55
nuba	whatevers suits you	20:56
manishman	YES!	20:56
manishman	MYSQL CONNECTED!	20:56
nuba	suppose that /home is the root of your website. go to www.yourwebsite/home?op=switchOnAdmin	20:56
+perlDreamer	Hack on, manishman!	20:56
manishman	:)	20:56
manishman	it's kind of a wierd set up	20:57
+perlDreamer	You bridged your old data onto the WRE?	20:57
manishman	no no	20:57
nuba	look for this image in the highest toolbar you see http://hq.imaterial.org/extras/assets/small/layout.gif	20:57
manishman	i got old working	20:57
manishman	but i went back to wre	20:57
manishman	silly wre set up wouldnt configure mysql	20:57
manishman	but now it's fine	20:57
manishman	i killed and restarted the database	20:57
manishman	very odd/finicky	20:57
klnielsen	ack - got it, nuba. Thank you. Sorry I am so slow.	20:58
nuba	np	20:58
nuba	you can also browse to www.yourwebsite.com/home?func=manageAssets	20:58
nuba	and click in Home at the crumbtrail	20:59
klnielsen	woot!	20:59
klnielsen	this is so neat.	20:59
nuba	crumbtrail is the "Root > Home" thing	20:59
* klnielsen will be back after her meeting		20:59
nuba	the same context menu will appear	20:59
klnielsen	nuba - got it. I have problems when learning new terms for things. I am very much a "thingie" "whatsit" kind of person.	20:59
klnielsen	:/	20:59
nuba	heh its ok	21:00
+perlDreamer	klnielsen: You'll be happy to know that we have a Thingy asset in the works already	21:00
+perlDreamer	If you tell us what a Whatsit is, we'll start planning it next :)	21:01
nuba	rizen: google now has a forms feature for their spreadsheets, plus the API	21:05
nuba	http://googledocs.blogspot.com/2008/02/stop-sharing-spreadsheets-start.html and http://code.google.com/apis/spreadsheets/overview.html	21:05
nuba	isnt this like "Thingy, Lite Edition" ?	21:06
nuba	klnielsen: just a warning, as far as I know, "edit branch" should be avoided if you have lots of descendants. I used it with ~3000 descendants (posts) and it wasnt a good experience.	21:09
+perlDreamer	It needs to be a Workflow process	21:10
nuba	i dont remember whats the reasonable limit, but probably someone else here can hint you on it	21:10
+perlDreamer	that way long processes don't have to be inside the HTTP timeout	21:10
nuba	yep	21:11
@rizen	i suppose it's like a mini thingy	21:12
@rizen	hard to say without using it	21:12
* perlDreamer goes to the gym		21:12
nuba	i wonder if it'll turn into a mini-access within google docs, in the same rank as spreadsheets, docs, presentations	21:19
nuba	google is already touting it "as a database and access data for another application via the Spreadsheets Data API"	21:23
nuba	from that to a friendly interface for the everyman seems like a small gap to bridge to me	21:24
nuba	poor ms	21:31
nuba	rizen: ive got the guy at http://chl.be/mascots/ to add gooey there.	21:33
nuba	he replied "Thank you for this report. Gooey is so cute that I couldn't wait to add it on my list. However, why don't you show it on your main page?"	21:33
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nuba	( http://chl.be/mascots/ is where wikipedia points to as external link for the list of open source mascots )	21:36
@rizen	cool	21:37
nuba	im passing on the reply cause 1) its not my main page, its yours, and 2) i agree gooey should be featured more proeminently, specially since now I have a bot called GooeyOfSteel :)	21:40
klnielsen	Does anyone know if there is a way to make multiple feeds (on a syndicated content page) sort/display by date/time rather than source?	22:47
@preaction	Display tab > something about Interlaced	22:49
klnielsen	As I have mentioned before, you are the best. :)	22:49
+perlDreamer	preaction++ rocks!	23:06
@preaction	so i have a Redirect asset with some enhancements: it also passes whatever query parameters it gets to the URL it's redirecting you to	23:19
@preaction	but there's one problem: It doesn't work through a login	23:19
+perlDreamer	so if you have to login to the site it losses the query parameters?	23:20
@preaction	the login form is given a "returnUrl" which points to the Redirect asset and adds query parameters. when the user logs in, they're redirected to the "returnUrl"	23:20
@preaction	yes	23:20
@preaction	so user goes to foo?param=bar; they're shown a form to login that now has a returnUrl of foo?param=bar, they login and for some reason they seem to be redirected to foo?param=bar BUT with the same POST form from the login	23:21
@preaction	so since it's a POST, apache2::request doesn't give me ?param=bar, and instead gives me the POST parameters	23:22
+perlDreamer	and you lose the redirect	23:22
@preaction	i'm about to write some LWP::UserAgent thing that will do automated testing of this. can't I set it to not follow redirects?	23:22
* perlDreamer shrugs "I don't know"		23:23
+perlDreamer	But recommends using Test::WWW::Mech instead	23:23
+perlDreamer	or Apache::Test	23:23
Samus_Aran	back for another day of WebGUI battling, hehe	23:24
@preaction	POST is not supposed to even BE redirectable... and there is a single HTTP code that says "Don't forward the POST, just use a GET on the URL I give you."	23:24
@preaction	i'm using that HTTP code now, and it doesn't work	23:24
nuba	preaction: $ua->simple_request will not follow redirects	23:27
@preaction	yeah, i'm getting Test::WWW::Mech now to see if it has a similar functionality	23:27
nuba	and you can make post redirectable with push @{ $ua->requests_redirectable }, 'POST';	23:28
@preaction	that's probably only when using request(), doing the transparent redirecting thing	23:28
nuba	WWW;:Mech should have, as its just LWP::UserAgent subclassed iirc	23:28
nuba	never looked at Test::WWW::Mech tho	23:29
Samus_Aran	hm. it seems like the slow motion thing is rather unpredictable. it was happening yesterday from work for a bit, then was fine the rest of the day. at home, it was super slow. now back at work today, it's very fast again (without touching spectre or anything)	23:30
nuba	gremlins	23:32
nuba	dont request any rss feed past midnight, and keep the box away from water	23:33
* Samus_Aran loved Gremlins		23:39
Samus_Aran	I had a stuffed mogwai when I was a kid, very cute	23:39
Samus_Aran	I think a dog ate it	23:40
klnielsen	Ok, one more stupid question, sorry. I can't seem to add a subscription to a calendar. I type in a url (.ics) and nothing shows up. I also remember seeing something about Spectre not running currently, but I don't remember where, nor do I remember where the neat start/stop/restart page for mysql/spectre/etc is. It was there when I was installing, but that was Friday and so long ago.	23:41
* klnielsen 's dogs eat everything		23:41
nuba	klnielsen: spectre is what will retrieve the ics file for your calendar	23:42
nuba	spctre does the fetching, mail dispathing, housekeeping, etc	23:42
klnielsen	ack. so how do I make sure that spectre is running?	23:42
nuba	spectre*	23:42
klnielsen	What a good ghost it is.	23:42
klnielsen	:D	23:42
nuba	you on the WRE?	23:42
nuba	for me its a /data/wre/sbin/rc.webgui startspectre	23:43
nuba	and to check if its running, cd /data/WebGUI/sbin ; . /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment ; perl spectre.pl --status	23:43
nuba	to test spectre: perl spectre.pl --status	23:44
klnielsen	I don't have rc.webgui in /data/wre/sbin	23:44
@apeiron	/data/wre/sbin/wreservice.pl --start spectre	23:44
nuba	oh i forgot to add, this is in a 0.7 WRE	23:44
+perlDreamer	nuba: you need to update :)	23:45
klnielsen	I installed fresh last friday...	23:45
nuba	will do, as soon as work plate gets cleaned up...	23:46
klnielsen	ack. That explains it. connection refused on 32133. But why?	23:47
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+perlDreamer	klnielsen: Are you using SELinux perhaps? Or some other firewall?	23:48
Samus_Aran	klnielsen: first off, try restarting Apache	23:49
klnielsen	actually, it is blocked	23:49
klnielsen	crap	23:49
Samus_Aran	mine keeps getting bugged out and won't connect until I restart Apache	23:49
@preaction	would it be a problem if WebGUI sent a 301 status for every type of redirect?	23:50
klnielsen	I forgot that this is in the sharenet (a walled-off portion of our intranet)	23:51
klnielsen	sorry for all the hubbub	23:51
nuba	preaction: 301 is cacheable, once redirected, the browser wont ask for it again	23:52
nuba	302 is temporary, in the sense that the redirect can change, so the browser will ask for it again next time	23:52
nuba	301 = moved permanently, 302 = found	23:52
@preaction	right, but 301 means "re-send the POST to the new address"	23:53
@preaction	303 means "just make a Get request to the new address, do not re-send the post'	23:53
@preaction	i want 303	23:53
Samus_Aran	anyone have any idea why the news section on my WebGUI says "4 replies" and then when you click on it, there is only one reply ?	23:54
+perlDreamer	klnielsen: You can always change the port, that's a completely arbitrary number	23:54
+perlDreamer	it has to be changed in BOTH spectre.conf and the webgui.conf file for your site	23:54
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klnielsen	ok, thanks for that info.	23:55
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: Cutting, pasting and deleting posts may throw the count off.	23:55
+perlDreamer	so can uncommitted or archived posts	23:55
+perlDreamer	_I think_	23:55
nuba	preaction: rfc2616 says " Many pre-HTTP/1.1 user agents do not understand the 303 status etc. etc."	23:56
nuba	you may want to check the contemporary meaning of "Many pre-HTTP/1.1 user agents"	23:57
nuba	if any is still around ;)	23:57
@preaction	it also says they treat them like 302, which it also says most UAs treat like 303 (IE no re-POST)	23:57
nuba	yep	23:58
@preaction	i'm still getting 301, so the point is really moot...	23:58
nuba	you changed it and is still getting 301?	23:58
nuba	maybe the browser cached it then	23:58
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@preaction	no, i didn't restart. i fixed it in Session::Http->sendHeader	23:59
@preaction	which, for some reason, doesn't allow you to set your own status code for the redirect	23:59
nuba	you'd probably need to restart the browser if it cached the 301 redirect	23:59
--- Day changed Wed Feb 13 2008
perlmonkey2	Why would the doman/../public/uploads directory be owned by nobody if apache needs to write to it?	00:07
+perlDreamer	apache's user is nobody?	00:07
+perlDreamer	by default	00:07
perlmonkey2	oh, not on my machine :)	00:08
+perlDreamer	except for WRE	00:08
+perlDreamer	If that's a page of wiki instructions, please feel free to edit them to make them more generic	00:08
perlmonkey2	I have a meeting in a few, but I'll do that when I get back...../me notes to himself to participate more.	00:08
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2: You do tons already by hanging out here and doing the survey.	00:09
perlmonkey2	I have a lot to learn about WG before I can attache my survey code to a functioning WG backend.	00:10
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Samus_Aran	perlDreamer: it seems strange that it is keeping track of the replies manually, rather than simply querying the database	00:16
Samus_Aran	it only displays one reply, it should be doing the same query that comes up with the one reply	00:17
@rizen	it caches them for speed	00:17
CIA-20	WebGUI: colin * r5420 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm: add more POD to www_add	00:21
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wgGuest78	hello	00:22
wgGuest78	i have a question related to the colaboration systems	00:22
+perlDreamer	whing it on out, wgGuest78	00:23
+perlDreamer	nuba!	00:23
+perlDreamer	Before I forget, the i18n system still has the old help in it	00:23
+perlDreamer	it doesn't have to be translated	00:23
+perlDreamer	I'm going work on pruning that out this afternoon	00:23
wgGuest78	I want to edit the default submission template and to pass the attachement loop to weblog template	00:24
nuba	oh	00:24
wgGuest78	is it posible?	00:24
nuba	i translated a few of those this past weekend...	00:24
nuba	where is it going?	00:24
+perlDreamer	away	00:24
+perlDreamer	removed	00:24
+perlDreamer	echado	00:24
nuba	would it happen its been replaced by wiki?	00:24
+perlDreamer	a snapshot was taken and dumped into the wiki, yes	00:25
+perlDreamer	but only in English	00:25
nuba	well, non-english speaking users are going to need their help somewhere :/ ..	00:25
+perlDreamer	yes :(	00:26
nuba	is any strategy to preserve the existence of non-english help somewhere?	00:26
Samus_Aran	rizen: you mean, it caches them for inaccuracy. is there some way I can get it to stop caching them ?	00:27
nuba	or are W3 sites supposed to work it out by themselves?	00:27
nuba	is there*	00:27
+perlDreamer	nuba: You'd really need to ask rizen. However, the i18n is in SVN now, so once it is pruned out, it's not gone forever.	00:28
@rizen	i wasn't here when you were talking about the problem in the beginning, but the solution is to fix whatever caused them to be inaccurate in the first place, not to eliminate the cache	00:28
nuba	rizen: is there any exit strategy for the internationalized help besides /dev/null ?	00:28
Samus_Aran	I mean, when it ends up inaccurate, how can someone tell WebGUI to recalculate it ?	00:28
Samus_Aran	it looks quite unprofessional to the people I demo to that the very first news item is giving off incorrect information	00:29
@rizen	that depends upon where the inaccuracy is	00:29
@rizen	like i said, i wasn't here for that part of the conversation	00:29
+perlDreamer	you didn't miss anything there, rizen	00:30
@rizen	ok then tell me how it got inaccurate in the first place?	00:30
@rizen	did somebody do some db manipulation?	00:30
@rizen	or is it the result of a bug?	00:30
* nuba .o0O( gremlins )		00:31
@rizen	nuba: currently no plan...thinking about allowing internationalized wiki entries at wiki.plainblack.com	00:31
@rizen	thats' the only thing i can think of	00:31
nuba	perlDreamer: i've exported the current translation, so if you prune it I still have the content here	00:34
+perlDreamer	nuba, it's still in SVN, even if I prune it	00:34
nuba	true	00:34
+perlDreamer	I wouldn't purposely throw out reams of someone's hard work.	00:34
+perlDreamer	Even mine, since I wrote a big chunk of the English Help :)	00:34
nuba	rizen: i will add a wiki w/ the translated help to webgui.com.br once I get it back up	00:35
nuba	rizen: what should happen at some point in the near future	00:35
wgGuest78	perlDreamer, I want to edit the default submission template and to pass the attachement loop to weblog template. Can i do it?	00:35
nuba	rizen: btw whats the status of W3, as a project?	00:35
+perlDreamer	wgGuest78: Do you mean "copy and paste the attachment loop from the default submission template to the weblog template?"	00:36
@rizen	W3 died long ago, and this summer i rebuilt it as www.webguiworldwide.org	00:36
@rizen	which is just a conglomeration of webgui related sites	00:36
wgGuest78	yes	00:36
wgGuest78	correct	00:36
@rizen	which may or may not be translated into other languages	00:36
@rizen	if webgui.com.br isn't in there you should definitely get it added	00:37
+perlDreamer	Then, yes, I believe so. Be sure you make a copy of the original weblog submission template and to use it, since future upgrades may overwrite your changes.	00:37
wgGuest78	i did it, but did not work	00:38
nuba	webgui.com.br is dead, needs to be relaunched at least as a thin site w/ a board, translation and wiki	00:39
+perlDreamer	did you commit the template, and then tell your CS to use the new template, and then commit it, too?	00:39
+perlDreamer	wait a sec.	00:40
+perlDreamer	No, that won't work.	00:40
+perlDreamer	the templates have different sets of variables.	00:40
+perlDreamer	The weblog template is for displaying entries	00:40
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+perlDreamer	the Submission template is for making entries.	00:41
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wgGuest33	perlDreamer, excuseme i have a problem with my internet. Can you repeat me again your anwser about my question related to copy code from default submission and paste it in weblog template?	00:44
+perlDreamer	It won't work	00:44
+perlDreamer	the templates have different sets of variables.	00:44
+perlDreamer	The weblog template is for displaying entries	00:44
+perlDreamer	the Submission template is for making entries.	00:45
wgGuest33	it not posible that it woks	00:45
+perlDreamer	Na va a funciona, ni un poquito.	00:45
+perlDreamer	It won't work.	00:45
wgGuest33	do you speak spanish?	00:46
+perlDreamer	Somewhat. Just common spanish, nothing technical.	00:46
wgGuest33	ok,	00:47
wgGuest33	gracias	00:47
+perlDreamer	De nada	00:47
+perlDreamer	Si es algo que queries en WebGUI, puedes hacer un "request" aqui:	00:47
nuba	its only after you write a bot to monitor wiki activity that you notice how little activity there is going on..	00:48
+perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/rfe	00:48
wgGuest33	gracias perlDreamer, lo tendr� en cuenta	00:49
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nuba	for the latest 50 activities at the wiki, ~34 were by koen, elnino, knowmad and faino	00:53
nuba	only 13 people total	00:54
nuba	details http://webgui.pastebin.com/m7867c38f	00:55
@rizen	nuba..you should write some patches for the wiki to make it easier to expose that sort of stuff	00:57
@rizen	maybe RSS feeds or XML or JSON or something	00:57
@rizen	i'll accept them	00:57
+perlDreamer	wiki statistics	00:57
+perlDreamer	Most frequent creators, most frequent editors	00:57
Samus_Aran	rizen: to answer your Q, the "Replies" listed on a news item got out of whack. it says there are 4 replies when there are 1. no manual db manipulation, just adding/removing/changing template/deleting replies and news items	00:57
@rizen	yeah, but not just a page that displays it, but also feeds that can be used for external data manipulation	00:58
nuba	we discussed exposing the wiki's recent changes with RSS then with JSON yesterday	00:58
@rizen	Samus_Aran: what version were you running when this problem occured?	00:58
@rizen	nuba: cool...i'm just letting you know in advance that i'd approve any such patches automatically	00:59
nuba	great	00:59
@rizen	i think they're all great ideas	00:59
nuba	i hope that, with debian increasing webgui exposure, we'll see some growth in community activity soon	01:00
Samus_Aran	latest stable	01:00
@preaction	i wasn't planning on using the wiki itself, but just making another template and using a shortcut	01:01
Samus_Aran	rizen: latest stable, manual install on Ubuntu 6.06 LTS	01:01
@rizen	samus_aran: do you mean latest stable when you had the problem, or the current latest stable?	01:02
@rizen	if you mean current then submit a bug report about it	01:02
@rizen	and we'll get the problem fixed	01:02
@rizen	nuba: the trade shows we're attending should help too...did you read today's black blog?	01:03
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: but we'll need to know how to reproduce the problem	01:03
@preaction	Samus_Aran, are those replies in the Trash?	01:03
Samus_Aran	latest stable as of Thursday last week. have there been any releases since then ?	01:03
Samus_Aran	preaction: I don't think so. will check	01:03
@rizen	no new releases since then	01:03
nuba	rizen: checked it now, good news	01:04
nuba	pics appear only when I click on "comment (0)"	01:05
@rizen	yup	01:05
nuba	i know its nitpicking, but having pics behind such link - comments (0) - is a bit counter intuitive, unless you actually did read the text entirely and paid attention that there are pics somewhere to be seen.	01:07
nuba	and most people just scan their way thru the texts	01:07
@rizen	don't care	01:08
@rizen	for people that are just scanning and not reading, the pictures out of context won't make sense anyway	01:08
@rizen	plus most people will find the black blog through the news or from an rss feed	01:08
@rizen	which will take you directly to the post	01:08
@rizen	which contains the pics	01:09
* perlDreamer thinks the title should link to the whole article.		01:09
nuba	heh i happen to be the minority that checks www.plainblack.com/black-blog directly	01:09
nuba	in the minority*	01:09
Samus_Aran	preaction: sorry for the delay, no, there's nothing in the trash	01:14
* rizen hates perlDreamer for being annoyingly correct		01:16
+perlDreamer	I'm your conscience, rizen	01:19
+perlDreamer	p.s. Don't forget to buy Sarah roses for Valentine's Day.	01:20
+perlDreamer	and cook her breakfast in bed	01:20
@rizen	already got her 2 lbs of customized hershey's chocolate, and sent it to her work so that she gets lots of co-worker attention, which she really craves	01:24
@rizen	btw...i encourage you guys to check out gooey on the go...added a lot more gooey pics from scale	01:26
@preaction	okay. so now I'm thinking that both Firefox and Safari are mishandling my 303 Response and re-sending the POST to the redirect's Location	01:26
@rizen	what is a 303?	01:26
@preaction	because it can't be Apache	01:26
@preaction	303 is See Other	01:26
@rizen	interesting...haven't heard of that before	01:26
@preaction	it's supposed to function thus: you	01:26
@preaction	POST your login; it sents a 303 Redirect and you simply GET the location, not re-post	01:26
@preaction	like a 301 redirect is supposed to do	01:27
+perlDreamer	nice pictures :)	01:27
@rizen	did you try it with a 301 first	01:27
@preaction	301 is what webgui sends all redirects as, until i changed it because i thought that was the problem	01:27
@preaction	i changed it to accept setStatus like I thought it would	01:28
@rizen	maybe your browser doesn't know what to do with 303	01:28
@rizen	so you should just stick with 301	01:28
@preaction	i'll try 301 with LWP::UserAgent, but LWP::UserAgent does the right thing (the thing I expect) when it's a 303 response. if it does the right thing on a 301 response i'm going to start hurting things	01:29
@preaction	ok, weird things going on now, but i have something to work with (7 redirects in a row for some reason...)	01:32
nuba	preaction: 7 redirects in a row is the hard limit set on LWP::UserAgent	01:33
nuba	if youre getting 7 then its most like because LWP::UserAgent didnt follow the 8th	01:34
@preaction	it's probably a loop because it keeps re-posting the form because it's 301	01:37
nuba	http://search.cpan.org/~gaas/libwww-perl-5.805/lib/LWP/UserAgent.pm#$ua-%3Emax_redirect(_$n_)	01:37
@preaction	posting a form with a returnUrl gets you redirected to the url in returnUrl, 301-style. then the new url you're at reads the form (which contains a login POST), logs you in, and returns you to the returnUrl	01:37
nuba	preaction: if its of any use to you, when dealing with headers I use firefox's livehttpheaders extension a lot	01:38
@preaction	yeah, livehttpheaders doesn't show any of these redirects	01:38
nuba	good for capturing, replays, tweaks, etc	01:38
nuba	you've seen this one, right? http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec10.html	01:41
@preaction	it appears that the status code isn't the only thing that's relevant. the status description is also parsed	01:41
@preaction	if I send 301 Moved Permanently, I break WebGUI. if I just send 301 Redirect, everything works	01:43
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Samus_Aran	why is there no sitemap in WebGUI ? it simply uses the menu, which doesn't even display the page titles	01:46
Samus_Aran	I thought I remembered an actual sitemap in 4.x, though I'm not sure	01:46
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: It's just a navigation asset, with a specific template.	01:46
Samus_Aran	perlDreamer: which is my point. a sitemap should have more than just the menu items	01:47
+perlDreamer	then use a different template than the default :)	01:47
Samus_Aran	at the very least the page titles, possibly the date the page was updated and by who	01:47
+perlDreamer	I'm not sure that those are possible with the Navigation Asset, you'd have to check the online help for that list.	01:48
Samus_Aran	perlDreamer: I didn't see any template that would display titles	01:48
@preaction	he meant make your own	01:48
+perlDreamer	you _can_ add new templates?	01:48
Samus_Aran	and a few of the ones I did try were broken so that I had to click back to even use the site anymore. like the horizontal menu one, had no edit controls anymore	01:48
+perlDreamer	preaction: Get out of my head, you HTTP header hacker!	01:48
+perlDreamer	horizontal menu is for site navigation, not sitemaps	01:49
Samus_Aran	preaction: I realise I can add one, but what I don't understand is why there is no sitemap in WebGUI after almost a decade	01:49
Samus_Aran	preaction: I was trying each to see what they looked like	01:49
Samus_Aran	*perlDreamer	01:49
+perlDreamer	If you'd like to contribute a beautiful sitemap template, it could be added.	01:50
+perlDreamer	and there did use to be a sitemap asset in wG 5	01:50
nuba	Samus_Aran: the old sitemap is easily replaced with the new navigation	01:50
@preaction	Samus_Aran, there is a site map that people use and find adequate. just because it is not adequate to you does not mean that WebGUI is inherently broken. this is an open-source project, patches are welcome.	01:50
Samus_Aran	does the menu asset thing currently being used provide the variable for the page title ?	01:51
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: ?op=viewHelp	01:51
@rizen	they all provide the variable for not only page title	01:51
@rizen	but date revized, created, synopsis and more	01:51
@rizen	methinks you don't want help...you want someone to do it for you	01:51
+perlDreamer	to be precise: http://www.webgui.org/wg/contribute?op=viewHelp;hid=navigation%20template;namespace=Asset_Navigation	01:52
Samus_Aran	rizen: no, I am currently creating a site map template. I found the page.menuTitle and am checking what to change it to	01:56
Samus_Aran	which is in the URL perlDreamer provided. thank you	01:57
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: If you poke around in the wiki, and in the online Help that comes with WebGUI, you'll find a lot of useful info.	01:57
+perlDreamer	after I win the lottery, I need to learn javascript and then write the template editor with smart variable insertion.	01:59
nuba	that'd be interesting. expose JSON instead of processing, then fill in the DOM	01:59
Samus_Aran	it's starting to look like a site map. just need to drop a few more variables in	02:00
nuba	i wonder if thats really practical	02:00
+perlDreamer	It may just be a MCE plugin	02:00
+perlDreamer	that lets you pick from a list of available variables	02:01
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+perlDreamer	if it was smart, it would add in template end tags automatically	02:01
nuba	you could just as well change templates on the fly	02:01
Samus_Aran	except the template editing page doesn't display the original page anymore	02:01
+perlDreamer	if it was really smart, it would be context sensitive and change the set of variables depending on if you're inside loops or not.	02:02
Samus_Aran	(unless you're editing a template for the template editing page)	02:02
nuba	going offline, nite guys	02:03
Samus_Aran	where does the data in page.synopsis come from ?	02:06
+perlDreamer	from the synopsis entry in the Asset	02:06
Samus_Aran	I don't recall seeing one of those. goes to look more closely	02:06
+perlDreamer	excuse me, it's the "summary" entry	02:07
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Samus_Aran	okay	02:07
+Radix-wrk	mornin' all :)	02:08
+perlDreamer	Yo, Radix-wrk.	02:08
Samus_Aran	why did WebGUI choose to use JS for opening pages in new windows, rather than a frameset control [which works in all browsers]	02:15
Samus_Aran	+ ?	02:15
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@preaction	target="" is not XHTML 1.0 Strict compliant	02:17
Samus_Aran	perlDreamer: that page you gave me doesn't list a last modified date. is this variable available from somewhere else, or just not exist ?	02:17
Samus_Aran	preaction: the most common web browser (MSIE) does not support XHTML	02:17
@preaction	we don't fix IE bugs	02:18
Samus_Aran	4.01 Transitional makes a lot more sense	02:18
@preaction	i'd rather not get into yet another philosophical debate about HTML and XHTML. #css is a much better channel for those	02:18
Samus_Aran	if a textual user agent tries to use the site and reaches one of those links, they will see <a href="#"> which is completely broken for them	02:19
Samus_Aran	you mean #web	02:19
@preaction	i agree that XHTML 1.0 Strict is not the optimal doctype for anything. I would prefer WebGUI to use HTML 4.01 Strict	02:19
Samus_Aran	CSS is for CSS	02:19
@preaction	no. i mean the happy people at #css love these kind of debates	02:19
Samus_Aran	*#CSS is for CSS	02:19
Samus_Aran	oh	02:19
Samus_Aran	I've never been in there	02:19
Samus_Aran	I am talking about end user functionality	02:19
Samus_Aran	MSIE doesn't support XHTML at all. user agents without Javascript can not use the site	02:20
Samus_Aran	is it not possible to at least use the URL in the JS link, so that non-JS aware browsers will go to it in the current page (which is what happens with non-frameset aware browsers with target="") ?	02:22
Samus_Aran	something like <a href="http://real_url/" onClick...>	02:22
Samus_Aran	I tend to avoid JS, and especially avoid opening links in new windows, so I'm not too sure if that can work or not	02:23
@preaction	once again: this is not the place to request features	02:23
Samus_Aran	that was a question there	02:25
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: The navigation asset doesn't have such a variable right now. If you'd like one, please submit an RFE.	02:29
Samus_Aran	perlDreamer: okay, thank you	02:31
CIA-20	WebGUI: colin * r5421 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Navigation.pm: clarify that synopsis==summary	02:31
+perlDreamer	It's a pretty simple one to add, I wouldn't doubt that it would be approved.	02:31
Samus_Aran	I tried adding the page.synopsis to a title="" for the <a> tag, but it is popping up the name of the variable. is there something a variable needs to be contained inside ?	02:32
Samus_Aran	oh sorry <tmpl_var >	02:33
Samus_Aran	missed that with all the < > around there	02:33
+perlDreamer	title="<tmpl_var page.synopsis>" should work fine	02:34
+perlDreamer	if it doesn't please submit a bug report, or, you could try the Design Forum on pb.com	02:34
Samus_Aran	it's working fine	02:35
Samus_Aran	I just missed that it needed a container	02:35
Samus_Aran	it pops up a description of the page in the sitemap, if one is available	02:36
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danny_mk	Hello everyone	02:52
danny_mk	is there a way to pass parameters to a url in a http proxy?	02:52
danny_mk	url to proxy: http://www.mywebsite.com/^FormParam('id');	02:55
@preaction	http://webgui.pastebin.com/d3c3ef1bf <- here are the headers from the request chain that I set off	02:57
@preaction	the returnUrl is sent with the POST data, but the Location header from the response is completely wrong	02:58
@preaction	it's not the Location that my debug code tells me is being sent	02:58
@preaction	i'm beginning to wonder if it's somehow due to keep-alive reusing the WebGUI session	02:59
@preaction	because my script that uses LWP::UserAgent to send the same request does the right thing	03:00
@preaction	but it can't be that because WRE's mod_perl turns off KeepAlive	03:02
@preaction	it seems to happen if I send a redirect to the same location	03:16
Samus_Aran	I just added a reply to a comment on the news items (the one where it shows "4 replies" for one reply), and now it shows "7 replies" for the two	03:22
Samus_Aran	added a reply to the second reply, and it went up to "8 replies"	03:24
Samus_Aran	it seems a single reply is worth anywhere from 1 to 4 replies for the counter	03:25
+Radix-wrk	Sounds like a bug to me.. submit it :)	03:26
Samus_Aran	is there a page handy explaining how to install a wgpkg ?	03:30
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@preaction	Asset Manager there's a Packages section below the assets, there should be a form input for importing a package in there	03:31
Samus_Aran	are they zip files (if I wanted to look at the source) ?	03:31
+Radix-wrk	no	03:31
@preaction	they're tar files	03:32
danny_mk	Hi preaction	03:37
danny_mk	got a quick question for you.	03:38
@preaction	is it the question you asked at 18:55 about parameters to a URL in an HTTP Proxy?	03:38
danny_mk	no	03:38
danny_mk	it is about writting an activity	03:38
danny_mk	I can't find any good documentation on workflow and activities	03:39
danny_mk	but I will have to write about 12 of them	03:39
danny_mk	is there a good example anywhere or do I have to read through the code?	03:39
+Radix-wrk	nothing in the wiki?	03:40
danny_mk	nope	03:40
danny_mk	check it out	03:40
@preaction	most likely you'll have to read through the code	03:40
danny_mk	darn	03:40
+Radix-wrk	there's a workflow skeleton	03:41
danny_mk	ok	03:41
danny_mk	I know	03:41
danny_mk	I got that	03:41
danny_mk	I think you mean an activity skeleton right? I did not find any workflow skeletons	03:42
+Radix-wrk	yeah	03:43
+Radix-wrk	they're one and the same I think	03:43
@preaction	you don't write workflows. workflows are made from the user interface	03:43
@preaction	they contain activities, which you can write	03:43
danny_mk	that is what I thought. I write the activity right?	03:43
danny_mk	ok	03:43
danny_mk	however, how do I run the activity at a certain time	03:44
danny_mk	don't I use the workflow for that?	03:44
@preaction	you create a workflow that has that activity	03:44
danny_mk	and that is where I get lost	03:44
danny_mk	OK, once I ad my own activity and include it in my config file	03:45
+Radix-wrk	Workflows can run multiple activities	03:45
danny_mk	then the activity should show up when I create a new workflow	03:45
danny_mk	right?	03:45
+Radix-wrk	yep	03:46
danny_mk	cool. OK, got it.	03:46
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danny_mk	how about the http proxy question?	03:47
danny_mk	not to push my luck to much :-)	03:47
danny_mk	there is no way to pass it parameters huh?	03:48
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@preaction	lesson learned today: Redirecting an HTTP UA to the same URL as you POSTed to will POST again regardless of the redirect status code	05:56
@preaction	so can anyone think of any possible way that making all default login forms POST to the root of the site would backfire on me?	05:57
@preaction	i'm going to be writing a bunch of WWW::Mech tests to make sure, of course	05:57
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CIA-20	WebGUI: graham * r5422 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/docs/upgrades/_upgrade.skeleton: Merge 7.5 upgrade skeleton changes	09:29
CIA-20	WebGUI: graham * r5423 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Start of 7.4.23 dev	09:29
CIA-20	WebGUI: graham * r5424 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fix CalendarUpdateFeeds causing warnings in logs	09:29
CIA-20	WebGUI: graham * r5425 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (6 files in 4 dirs): package importing fixes	09:29
CIA-20	WebGUI: graham * r5426 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/VersionTag.pm): fix rolling back version tags with an asset with a later revisionDate than a child	09:29
CIA-20	WebGUI: graham * r5427 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/docs/ (3 files in 3 dirs): added tab fields to dataform default email template	09:29
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CIA-20	WebGUI: graham * r5428 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (lib/WebGUI/Macro/AdminToggle.pm docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt): fix: don't show Admin mode toggle when not in adminModeSubnets	09:29
CIA-20	WebGUI: graham * r5429 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.4.23 release	09:29
CIA-20	WebGUI: jt * r5430 /releases/WebGUI_7.4.23-stable: Release 7.4.23-stable	09:29
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nuba	is anyone already playing with the gallery asset?	15:56
nuba	i cant find where to add albums	15:56
nuba	hm, manually appending 'func=add;class=WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::GalleryAlbum' to my gallery asset's URL	16:00
BartJol	ah, i should know, I've made the translations	16:05
BartJol	but, since that is a mindless job, I don't have it right away	16:05
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BartJol	nuba, i found this variable for the adding of an album: helpvar url_addAlbum	16:31
BartJol	but I don't have 7.5 installed, so I can't look for it	16:32
nuba	thx BartJol. now I wonder if this gallery is currently usable at all or if im doing something wrong	16:32
BartJol	well, sometimes the wobject had to be submiited via the version tag first, before items can be added to it, have you submitted the version tag?	16:33
SDuensin	Morning.	16:33
BartJol	morning	16:33
nuba	im running SVN HEAD, maybe I should go back to the 7.5.1 release to test this..	16:34
BartJol	I wouldn't know... sorry	16:34
nuba	np, thx for the pointer anyway	16:35
Radix__	cool util - http://www.yougetsignal.com/tools/web-sites-on-web-server/	16:49
Radix__	I found JT's RareBlack.com server :)	16:49
nuba	nice	16:55
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perlmonkey2	Anyone else use lifera? I can never get it to update the tbb.	17:41
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wgGuest57	hello	17:56
wgGuest57		17:56
perlmonkey2	hello	17:58
perlmonkey2	wgGuest57: howdy howdy	17:58
wgGuest57	?	17:59
wgGuest57	how to do for i get a data from the database in a macro?	17:59
perlmonkey2	from WG tables or your own custom tables?	18:00
wgGuest57	of webgui	18:01
perlmonkey2	the AOIRank Macro is a great example of a simple DB query to WG tables.	18:01
wgGuest57	thanks	18:02
perlmonkey2	de nada	18:02
wgGuest57	me sirve mucho	18:03
wgGuest57	porque no sabia el link	18:03
wgGuest57	y necesitaba un ejemplo	18:03
wgGuest57	gracias	18:03
perlmonkey2	ah....My Espanol is extremely pico	18:05
perlmonkey2	sabia?	18:05
perlmonkey2	ejemplo?	18:05
perlmonkey2	I'll use a translator :D	18:05
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wgGuest57	sabia = know	18:07
wgGuest57	ejemplo = example	18:07
BartJol	hi rizen thanks for the mail to Koen :)	18:07
@rizen	np	18:08
perlmonkey2	wgGuest57: just got that from babelfish :) Glad I could help (and I really need to study my Spanish more).	18:08
wgGuest57	i could you helps with spanish	18:10
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perlmonkey2	I think the kind of help I need requires long hours spent at an online tutorial.	18:12
perlmonkey2	I remember most of the rules, but I have forgotten a lot of nouns and verbs.	18:12
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wgGuest83	test	18:15
perlmonkey2	123	18:15
wgGuest83	Is there any way to setup webgui to clean cache automatically	18:17
wgGuest57	jajaja	18:17
wgGuest57	yes	18:17
wgGuest83	how	18:17
wgGuest57	yo creo = i think so	18:17
ckotil	you can schedule a workflow to do it	18:17
ckotil	or add a cronjob to delete /tmp/filecache (not sure if this is where it actually resides)	18:18
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BartJol	oh and besides my horrible image editing, this is what I have in mind for the webguiunderwear:	18:25
BartJol	http://bart.procolix.com/presentatie-webgui-borrel-20080214/andere-toekomst/vragen	18:25
BartJol	fluffy wastbands are a must	18:26
@rizen	that's just nasty	18:26
BartJol	yeah, i said, my image editing is horrible	18:27
BartJol	I will try to make a female version too	18:27
BartJol	that might be less appaling	18:28
perlmonkey2	BartJol: That is awesome!	18:28
BartJol	thanks	18:28
CIA-20	WebGUI: graham * r5431 /WebGUI/docs/ (3 files in 3 dirs): really added tab fields to dataform default email template	18:29
CIA-20	WebGUI: graham * r5432 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/ (2 files in 2 dirs): oops	18:29
CIA-20	WebGUI: jt * r5433 /translations/ (230 files in 23 dirs): fixing problems	18:29
CIA-20	WebGUI: jt * r5434 /translations/polish: fixing problems	18:29
BartJol	but I have to go now	18:33
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@rizen	nuba: you got your wish, gooey is now on the front page of webgui.org	18:39
+perlDreamer	aw, and he's blushing because we caught him coming out of the shower with his towel on	18:39
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@apeiron	I hereby volunteer to be the winged toga-wearing gooey mascot at the next WUC.	18:42
+perlDreamer	I second the motion (to avoid volunteering myself)	18:43
@rizen	i hereby volunteer perlDreamer to be the cthulu gooey mascot at the next wuc	18:43
* perlDreamer resolves not to shave and to die himself green from head to toenails		18:44
@rizen	http://www.plainblack.com/extras/macro/GooeyDate/halloween.gif	18:44
perlmonkey2	heh	18:44
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wgGuest24	hello	18:47
wgGuest24	There is some function in webgui I handed the key of the user, which is encrypted and stored in the database?	18:47
+perlDreamer	yes	18:47
nuba	when i first saw the halloween version of gooey in the webgui chinese site, i thought it was an hybrid of gooey and a chinese dragon	18:48
wgGuest24	what?	18:48
nuba	rizen: cool about gooey there	18:49
wgGuest24	the password, i mean identifier of table authentication	18:49
+perlDreamer	yes, it's stored as a base64 MD5 hash	18:49
wgGuest24	yes, i know, but i need in a macro,	18:50
wgGuest24	in webgui there some functon that do this?	18:51
wgGuest24	or i have to construct?	18:51
+perlDreamer	It's a simple 1-line call : $encryptedPassword = Digest::MD5::md5_base64($password);	18:51
+perlDreamer	So you'll have to do it yourself, but it's very easy to do.	18:52
+perlDreamer	You should also check the wiki for a tutorial on how to build macros.	18:53
nuba	btw i think when I was reading this past month's channel log, someone said you cannot get the password out of the MD5 hash	18:54
+perlDreamer	well, MD5 has been cryptographically hacked, so technically you can supply a password which will match the hash, but in general, you're right	18:54
nuba	just so you guys know, you can find a string that causes hash collision	18:54
+perlDreamer	hashes are supposed to be 1-way functions	18:55
nuba	depending on the size of the string, its a one day computing job	18:55
wgGuest24		18:55
nuba	on the average joe's wprkstation	18:55
nuba	workstation*	18:55
nuba	i've done i once to find a 6-letter password in one of the missions at hackthissite.org	18:56
+perlDreamer	cool	18:57
nuba	when hackthissite.org was the new thing on the block and I used to hav free time in my hands	18:57
nuba	have*	18:57
nuba	looong ago	18:57
+perlDreamer	I built a hardware SHA-1 implementation, so I've tried to follow the crypto stuff since.	18:58
+perlDreamer	It's very fun	18:58
+perlDreamer	but I haven't done any reverse engineering or hacking	18:58
+perlDreamer	just reading	18:58
wgGuest24	?	18:58
+perlDreamer	wgGuest24: Are you asking a new question, or didn't you see my response above?	18:58
wgGuest24	new question	18:59
+perlDreamer	Could you repeat it, please?	19:00
wgGuest24	What I want to know is whether there is any function that I hand over the key of the user who is logged on, namely that I declare $identifier = ..., and Because when there is an update can change the structure of the database and can be damaged my macro function if I do this manually	19:01
+perlDreamer	I did answer that question above.	19:01
+perlDreamer	It's a simple 1-line call : $encryptedPassword = Digest::MD5::md5_base64($password);	19:01
+perlDreamer	So you'll have to do it yourself, but it's very easy to do.	19:01
+perlDreamer	You should also check the wiki for a tutorial on how to build macros.	19:02
wgGuest24	i know build macros, and too know digest::MD5, but then no there some way of call a function of webgui?	19:02
+perlDreamer	Well, you'd need a User object.	19:04
+perlDreamer	Will this macro be called on the current user, or a different one?	19:05
wgGuest24	current	19:05
+perlDreamer	in that case, $session->user will give you the user object that you need	19:05
wgGuest24	yes	19:05
+perlDreamer	$user->identifier($encryptedIdentifier)	19:05
+perlDreamer	will change the user's password	19:05
+perlDreamer	hang on a sec	19:06
+perlDreamer	that's an old method	19:06
+perlDreamer	it's going to go away	19:06
wgGuest24	this is for validated or for change the password?	19:07
+perlDreamer	change the password	19:07
wgGuest24	no, i need validated, how to do?	19:07
wgGuest24	i need compare the password	19:08
+perlDreamer	That's a little more difficult, since WebGUI allows more than one method for validating users.	19:09
+perlDreamer	If you'll only, ever use WebGUI authentication, it can be done.	19:09
+perlDreamer	Why do you need to build a new/different way of validating users?	19:09
wgGuest24	no, i need compare two password, the is in the database with other that the user write	19:11
+perlDreamer	In WebGUI, if you don't use WebGUI authentication, or LDAP authentication, you have to build a new authentication plugin (like WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI, or WebGUI::Auth::LDAP)	19:12
wgGuest24	then i need know if webgui have a function that gives me a pass of user	19:12
+perlDreamer	The answer to that is no.	19:12
wgGuest24	ok	19:12
+perlDreamer	WebGUI only stores encrypted passwords, not plain text ones	19:12
wgGuest24	thank	19:12
wgGuest24	yes	19:12
nuba	wgGuest24: You need to compare the user's password in the database with a string the user will provide?	19:12
wgGuest24	i need the password in the database, a function that gives me this	19:13
nuba	perlDreamer: he can compare PWDHASH = md5(string provided by the user)	19:13
wgGuest24	yes	19:14
nuba	where PWDHASH is the encrypted password stored in webgui's database	19:14
wgGuest24	how to get this password Without using a query to the database directly	19:14
nuba	Im not sure you can get the hash with the WebGUI API	19:25
nuba	it would most likely be here if it existed http://www.webgui.org/downloads/builds/7.5.1-beta/api/User.html	19:26
@rizen	you can't get a password because they are stored in a one way hash	19:26
nuba	rizen: it seems he wants to one-way-hash another string and compare it with the pwd	19:26
@rizen	you use the authenticate() method for that	19:28
@rizen	but it won't give you the user's password hashed or not	19:28
wgGuest24	i need compare two hash	19:28
@rizen	it just wants you to give it the hash	19:28
@rizen	it will do the comparison for you	19:28
wgGuest24	i need convert the text in digest md5	19:29
@rizen	what you want to do doesn't matter. i'm telling you that the api won't give you the password under any circumstances	19:29
wgGuest24	i just need the password from the database whitout use a query in the macro	19:29
nuba	wgGuest24: read about authenticate() at http://www.webgui.org/downloads/builds/7.5.1-beta/api/Auth.html	19:30
wgGuest24	mmm, then i have to do a query	19:30
nuba	you pass the string provided by the user to it	19:30
nuba	and it will do the work for you	19:30
nuba	instead of thinking what you want to implement, think about what you need to accomplish	19:31
nuba	it seems to me with authenticate() you'll write less code and reach the same result	19:34
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nuba	heh, interesting "CMSs in-a-nutshell" from a random guy in #javascript:	19:47
nuba	lefnire> wordpress if you don't know shit, joomla if you are a developer handing of a client that will manage their own site from now on, drupal if you are in house developing the site but client still wants to manage their own content, django/rails if you're in house doingn all the web work	19:47
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nuba	btw I dont endorse anything he says nor do I agree with him, just found interesting his effort to build a big picture of the CMSs araound	19:52
nuba	around*	19:52
@rizen	perlmonkey2: have you decided whether you can come to the wuc or not? and if so are you willing to talk about survey 2.0?	19:59
perlmonkey2	I really am planning on it. But I don't know when I'll be able to work on the survey. I have a lot of the client side done, but I need to start on the server side, which means I have to learn most of the WG library.	20:01
perlmonkey2	I've started on that, but there is a lot to learn.	20:01
perlmonkey2	WG is huge.	20:01
perlmonkey2	Bah, I'll be there and the survey will have a working version. I told work I wasn't working many weeknights or weekends anymore, so I'll have time.	20:02
klnielsen	I was wondering: I have been attempting to add an .ics feed to my calendar, but nothing shows up. Is there a way to force an update?	20:13
klnielsen	(Spectre is working, or running at least)	20:13
nuba	klnielsen: can you manually retrieve the .ics and check if it is is OK?	20:16
nuba	klnielsen: or did you check if the URL you gave WebGUI for the .ics is OK?	20:16
klnielsen	I did	20:18
klnielsen	I am subscribed elsewhere	20:18
nuba	good	20:19
nuba	found anything in your webgui.log ?	20:19
klnielsen	ack	20:19
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klnielsen	Cannot generate recurring events: Event has no recurrence pattern at /data/WebGui/lib/WebGui/Workflow/Activity/CalendarUpdateFeeds.pm line 394	20:21
@rizen	perlmonkey2 that's great news	20:24
perlmonkey2	Hopefully I can get it done in time to help out on the commerce system.	20:24
@rizen	that would be really cool	20:25
perlmonkey2	Looks like a lot of fun	20:25
klnielsen	Not to sound as remedial as I am, but does the logged error above mean that WebGUI simply doesn't like recurring events?	20:32
klnielsen	it seems odd since the option is offered if you are entering an event by hand	20:33
klnielsen	is it the ics format?	20:33
klnielsen	the fact that it is google-hosted?	20:34
@rizen	it could be a bug in webgui as well	20:34
@rizen	i don't know anything about the calendar so i shouldn't comment	20:34
klnielsen	poop.	20:35
@preaction	sounds like a bug to me	20:41
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@preaction	and i do know about the calendar. but i think graham is working on fixing that the right way soon	20:42
klnielsen	woot	20:42
klnielsen	thank you, sir	20:42
klnielsen	sirs	20:42
klnielsen	everyone	20:42
@preaction	Haarg, how's the change to using ical recurrence patterns throughout the calendar coming?	20:42
@Haarg	i have the recurrence stuff ripped out and replaced	20:45
@preaction	sweet	20:45
@Haarg	the hardest thing that i haven't dealt with yet is translating the ical to the form	20:46
@preaction	the module doesn't help with that?	20:47
@preaction	durn	20:47
@Haarg	one of them might	20:47
@preaction	no worries, just wondering	20:47
@Haarg	the one that generates the recurrence patterns doesn't	20:47
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@Haarg	actually, i guess i hacked out code to translate ical recurrence to what the calendar is using now	20:50
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@Haarg	shouldn't be too hard to adapt that to generate the form instead	20:51
klnielsen	is there another shared calendar format I can use?	20:51
klnielsen	I think google offers a few...	20:51
klnielsen	ical would be best, tho	20:51
@Haarg	ical is what the calendar supports	20:51
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+perlDreamer	So do y'all have any ideas about the perl bug that I found?	20:52
+perlDreamer	Since it happens on two different OS'es, I was thinking I could take it back to the perl porters	20:52
@preaction	perlDreamer, that's where i would start. or misc@perl.org perhaps?	20:53
@preaction	if there is a misc@	20:53
+perlDreamer	The big bummer is that when I tried to minimize the bug, it went away	20:53
+perlDreamer	so you have to install WebGUI to debug it	20:55
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@rizen	subversion sucks ass	21:14
@rizen	at least trying to compile subversion sucks ass	21:14
@rizen	i had forgotten how much i hated it	21:14
@rizen	wow our irc wiki page is really cool	21:19
@rizen	i hadn't read it before	21:19
@rizen	well, at least not since i created it	21:19
nuba	im using svk and enjoying it. keeps my depot in sync with plainblack's svn, and allows me to branch and commit my work	21:19
@rizen	i'm compiling a new version of subversion of pb svn	21:20
klnielsen	rizen: agreed. I'm getting help because of it. :)	21:20
@rizen	can't really use svk for that	21:20
@rizen	klnielsen: be sure to put whatever knowledge you gain into the wiki so others can bask in it's glory	21:21
@rizen	=)	21:21
nuba	rizen: while you're at it, can you delete this? /community-wiki/irc---webgui-channel	21:23
@rizen	done	21:24
nuba	thx	21:25
perlmonkey2	In the source install guide in the wiki I want to change this "chown -Rf nobody uploads" to let people knwo that nobody should be replaced with their httpd user if it isn't nobody. Should I just put that in parens next to it?	21:29
@rizen	or a note above or below it	21:29
nuba	rizen: in the 1189004211 revision of community-wiki/irc baylink added a paragraph stating the channel is not for webgui users, but for developers only. Is that accurate? Dont we want power users, non-devel-people, here too?	21:31
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: Source Install - Edited on 2/13/2008 1:21 pm by perlm http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/source-install	21:31
nuba	perlmonkey2++	21:32
@rizen	nuba, sure it's for anybody	21:33
@preaction	we'll take all comers, really. there's just a limit to how much "WebGUI is broken because it doesn't do what I want how I want" that some people (myself included) will put up with	21:33
* perlmonkey2 is obviously a contributor to preaction headaches.		21:34
@preaction	doesn't mean i'm issuing +b, but i will start /ignoring	21:34
* rizen also pisses off preaction but for different reasons		21:34
@preaction	because jt doesn't listen when I say WebGUI is broken because it doesn't do what I want how I want	21:34
perlmonkey2	rizen: Any chance we'll be able to play with the latest WDK soon?	21:35
@rizen	nope	21:37
@rizen	didn't you just hear me say that i hate subversion	21:37
perlmonkey2	I wonder if git is any better.	21:37
@rizen	it's not	21:37
@rizen	and really my problem isn't with subversion, it's with swig, which is what they use for perl bindings	21:38
perlmonkey2	Oh, subversion's WDK tie in.	21:38
nuba	where is baylink these day? baylink = jay, right?	21:44
nuba	days*	21:45
@apeiron	eeeeeeew, swig	21:45
@rizen	if you're going to ask, you should ask about someone who actually contributed to the community	21:46
@rizen	like pederson	21:46
nuba	yeah, from baylink.pitas.com "I'm Jay Ashworth. I've been an opinionated bastard on the net for about 12 years now, ..."	21:46
nuba	I think that by nitpicking you he might have helped you elaborate on your ideas and on webgui's design too	21:50
nuba	even if it wasnt a pleasant experience	21:50
@rizen	i'm certain that every person i've come in contact with on the webgui project has influenced my decision making...however, there are certainly some that are more valuable than others	21:51
@rizen	and he's not near the top of my list	21:51
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nuba	bbiaw	21:53
perlmonkey2	Does "Survey2.0" or "AJAXSurvey" sound better for the wobject name?	22:03
@rizen	just Survey	22:04
@rizen	cuz the old one is going away	22:04
perlmonkey2	Okay	22:04
@apeiron	. in package names tends to make perl go asplodey, too.	22:05
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perlmonkey2	There isn't really any documentation on the webgui libraries, is there? Like I'm looking at how getEditForm works, but I'm jumping around to try to piece its functionality together, which makes it hard to get the big picture.	22:15
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wgGuest59	hello	22:16
@preaction	perlmonkey2, the big picture is in Asset.pm->getEditForm, but you should know that if the definition has autoGenerateForms => 1, you don't need to play with getEditForm.	22:16
wgGuest59	i have a site that when i go to the map site i obtain an error but only in internet explorer	22:17
perlmonkey2	preaction: I'm looking through that super right now. Just trying to see how it all works because the survey editform will have to be a custom template with a whole ton of event methods for handling client callbacks.	22:17
perlmonkey2	Just hoping there was a "wall of text" laying it out for the simply minded :)	22:18
@preaction	right, but it should only need that for one of the tabs, no?	22:18
@preaction	and are you sure you want the Survey editor to be on the same page as the Asset properties?	22:18
perlmonkey2	preaction: see, I hadn't thought of htat.	22:18
@preaction	i worry that editing a Survey for an uncommited survey asset will be difficult	22:19
@preaction	or rather, at the same time you create one	22:19
+perlDreamer	like a CS, Calendar and Gallery	22:19
perlmonkey2	well, an asset should be one survey. And the survey's top level config is going to be all ajaxified too.	22:19
@preaction	(when the assetId is still "new")	22:19
perlmonkey2	preaction: okay....very good point.	22:19
@preaction	top-level config? you mean title, description, and the like? sounds like bad juju	22:19
perlmonkey2	no fancy smancy until it is created.	22:19
perlmonkey2	yes	22:19
@preaction	you can have a proceed=editSurvey in your edit form that will bring the user right to the www_editSurvey method after they click "Save" if you want	22:20
@preaction	but i'd only do that if it's a new survey	22:20
perlmonkey2	once the survey is created though, a lot of options will be locked, because it will break the question-answer-response model to change them.	22:21
@preaction	or make it a select box like it is on Layout assets and Folder assets	22:21
wgGuest59	the error is that a script is causing that internet explorer is running slowly, the pc would leave of working if the script continues running	22:21
perlmonkey2	preaction: Okay, sold :)	22:21
wgGuest59	do you know what is it about?	22:21
@preaction	perlmonkey2, what if those things that would break the survey are on the editSurvey screen instead?	22:21
wgGuest59	because in firefox it works.	22:22
@preaction	perlmonkey2, nm, dunno how that would work	22:22
perlmonkey2	preaction: I see no real reason not to do that. But it would break up the initial survey configuration into multiple screens.	22:22
perlmonkey2	But if I don't put them on multiple pages I'll have to figure out how to lock out options in the generated tab form.	22:23
@preaction	it is a chore, yes. but when you start storing questions/answers/sections in the database (in a collateral table i expect, not the Survey table), you're going to thank me	22:23
@preaction	that's easy enough, make it a readonly instead of a text or select	22:24
perlmonkey2	preaction: So I would have conditions in the definition? Or update the properties in the editform?	22:26
@preaction	you'd have the conditions in the getEditForm method	22:26
@preaction	and you'd set "autoGenerate => 0" in the properties in the definition for those properties	22:26
perlmonkey2	if ($self->get("assetId") ne "new") {//update def properties from inputs to read only ?	22:27
+perlDreamer	then it can never be altered/updated by the user	22:27
@preaction	$self->getId, or if that doesn't work then $self->session->form->get('assetId'), but yes	22:27
@preaction	you might want to do it the other way though	22:27
@preaction	update them to be editable on creation. with sane defaults.	22:28
perlmonkey2	preaction: Okay, let me sum up what you've advised. I should put options that will break the user inputted question-answer model in the survey edit/creation page, and only put non-destructive options in the tabform. But if I were to put them in the tabform, I could protect them from being altered in the way we just discussed?	22:29
@preaction	basically, yes	22:30
@preaction	i would advocate the first opinion though. i don't like the idea of having things you can't re-change on the asset edit screen	22:30
perlmonkey2	Okay, I'm easily convinced.	22:31
perlmonkey2	I'm all for best practices.	22:31
@preaction	but then, i don't like that you can't change those survey things either. but i'm not about to second-guess your opinion	22:31
perlmonkey2	It is intuative why they can't be changed, but I don't want to let the user shoot themselves in the foot.	22:31
@preaction	true enough	22:31
perlmonkey2	Okay, I think I'm getting the overall arch I'll need. I'll use the tabforms for the survey creation and then replace the current survey's HTMLForms with templates and my JS client code.	22:39
perlmonkey2	Too bad I can't use the HTMLForms, seems like a very slick generic asset edit templating system.	22:40
@preaction	it's not much a template system as it is a generator	22:42
@preaction	and you probably should use it, do you want the user to be able to edit the template of the survey editor?	22:42
perlmonkey2	no	22:42
@preaction	then you probably want to use HTMLForm to generate it	22:43
perlmonkey2	Do generate the edit questions/answers and have the drag and drops, etc?	22:43
@preaction	you can write raw HTML to an HTMLForm, if necessary	22:44
perlmonkey2	There will only be one edit survey page. It will be some static html/css building the layout of the page, and then a whole lot of JS. Would the HTMLForm be better than a custom template?	22:46
perlmonkey2	I'm not really going to be able to take advantage of anything the HTMLForm offers except the far right column options and the top halo text	22:47
+perlDreamer	that's the Admin Console, no the HTML form	22:48
perlmonkey2	Before I get started on this, I think it needs a lot more planning out. I dont' want to create a one-off paradigm of doing this. I mean, how should web2.0 interfaces be grafted into the existing standard asset editing interface?	22:54
perlmonkey2	The current HTMLForm is for auto-generating html <input>s for needed parameters. But the new survey will have dynamic params and need input added, deleted, updated.	22:55
+perlDreamer	you mean like the DataForm?	22:57
perlmonkey2	I've never looked at the dataform...I'll go look	22:57
@rizen	perlmonkey2...you're pretty much going to need to one off it for the survey	22:58
@rizen	and then we'll need to base our design decisions for the asset system going forward based upon what you do there	22:58
@rizen	i know it sucks, but if you don't do it this way, you'll get mired down into a swamp from which you will never return	22:59
perlmonkey2	I could fit it into the HTMLForm, but it would basically just be the HTMLForm wrapping everything I do in a raw call.	22:59
@preaction	perlmonkey2, i've got some unreleased code that does a lot of javascript stuff in the Asset Edit form (no ajax, ajax can't be done in the asset edit form because the edit form is shown before the asset exists in the database)	23:00
perlmonkey2	Okay...I think I can figure it out from here then :)	23:00
perlmonkey2	preaction: I'd love to look at it, but the asset edit shouldn' tneed any JS now.	23:00
@preaction	if you want an example. check out my experimental branch: https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/branch/doug-experimental	23:00
@preaction	k	23:00
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* perlmonkey2 grumbles about going into work for a 4pm meeting when I'm all excited about actually having the client code working inside WG. AFK for a few hours.		23:23
wgGuest59	hello	23:24
wgGuest59	i have some sites in webgui 7.3.22, can i update directly to the latest version or is better to upgrade first to 7.4.0?	23:25
@preaction	7.4.21 is the next step. the 7.5.0 and 7.4.22 upgrades won't let you upgrade from 7.3.22	23:27
wgGuest59	i have to upgrade from 7.3.22 to 7.4.21	23:27
wgGuest59	ok	23:33
wgGuest59	thanks	23:33
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* klnielsen just got back from lunch to find that she has been asking n00b questions in the dev chan. Sorry everyone!		23:53
+perlDreamer	n00b questions are fine	23:53
+perlDreamer	this isn't just a dev chan	23:53
+perlDreamer	(11:33:39) preaction: we'll take all comers, really. there's just a limit to how much "WebGUI is broken because it doesn't do what I want how I want" that some people (myself included) will put up with	23:54
+perlDreamer	And the other thing that gets our goat is people who ask questions that are answered in the online help, wiki or discussion board.	23:54
nuba	klnielsen: i think people here would freak out if someone asked "how do I add an article? Can someone login in my site and do it for me, pretty please with sugar on top ??"	23:54
klnielsen	I try not to be a poop-head, and to be very grateful, but I will admit to occasionally not knowing what to search for, terminology-wise. You guys(?) are all really patient, I think. Nothing like the happy-smiley-clubs that were the the early '90s *nix channels.	23:57
--- Day changed Thu Feb 14 2008
* perlDreamer tries not to feel old with that comment...		00:00
nuba	heh	00:00
+perlDreamer	... and fails	00:00
@preaction	yeah. those *nix channels still exist, on this network even. #openBSD is my favorite help channel to hang out in	00:00
@preaction	they don't take any question that's in any manual or on google	00:01
+perlDreamer	maybe we could train a bot to do that for us	00:01
+perlDreamer	GueyOfSteel: show lazyUser Editing Templates wiki	00:01
GooeyOfSteel	lazyUser: http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/templates-add/edit	00:04
nuba	what the.. ?! GooeyOfSteel its A-L-I-V-E !!!	00:04
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nuba	guess that scared the CIA bot	00:05
@preaction	sweet	00:05
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wgGuest80	hello	00:06
nuba	searching the wiki could return many hits	00:07
nuba	if GooeyOfSteel posts a list here people will start complaining	00:07
nuba	maybe just feeding perlbot with a few wiki-related factoids would be good enough	00:08
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+perlDreamer	I hope you're not here to hunt me down for egregious abuse of the American language	00:19
@preaction	oh noes!	00:19
bopbop	no fears	00:19
bopbop	just popping in to say hello	00:19
+perlDreamer	How's the youngest McCombs?	00:20
bopbop	she's great! running the house already	00:20
klnielsen	preaction: those channels can be helpful if you are a god... (*nix)	00:30
klnielsen	and perlDreamer - I am sure I have you beat, age-wise. I am the old woman at work here... and the only woman on my floor	00:31
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BartJol	perldreamer, have you already seen my new gadget?	00:36
BartJol	rizen calls it nasty	00:36
+perlDreamer	BartJol: gadget?	00:37
BartJol	yes	00:37
BartJol	a gooey thing	00:38
+perlDreamer	Clue me in, dude	00:38
BartJol	http://bart.procolix.com/presentatie-webgui-borrel-20080214/andere-toekomst/vragen	00:38
BartJol	have to mail it to Sarah	00:38
BartJol	to convince JT	00:39
+perlDreamer	I agree, it's nasty	00:39
+perlDreamer	It's like the complement of the Face Hugger from Aliens	00:39
BartJol	but a bit funny though?	00:39
* perlDreamer is very conservative		00:39
+perlDreamer	but yes	00:39
BartJol	not quite your style maybe	00:40
+perlDreamer	No	00:40
BartJol	:)	00:40
klnielsen	It's funny :D	00:40
klnielsen	well drawn, tho... did you do the art?	00:40
BartJol	well, just downloaded the male figure and put the underwear on	00:41
BartJol	I hope not to dissapoint you to much Perldreamer	00:41
+perlDreamer	Oh no	00:41
BartJol	maybe I've sick mind	00:41
+perlDreamer	I've been trying to see where to order one in size large :)	00:42
+perlDreamer	maybe he's one size fits all, with elastic arms	00:42
BartJol	well, we should make JT to order a batch	00:42
@rizen	um....	00:42
@rizen	JT has already used up his marketing budget for the year	00:42
@rizen	and his underwear budget too	00:42
+perlDreamer	Even special purple fuzzy Gooey underwear?	00:43
BartJol	you'll make a big progit out of it	00:43
+perlDreamer	Just wait 'til the customers roll in from Scale.	00:43
BartJol	sarah will like it on you, rizen	00:43
+perlDreamer	Does it come in female version, too?	00:44
BartJol	it will	00:44
+perlDreamer	Can you translate the Dutch on the slide?	00:45
BartJol	my design in any case	00:45
BartJol	yes	00:45
BartJol	Einde=end	00:45
BartJol	Wie weet... = Who knows, next year a valentine-gooey	00:46
BartJol	Vragen?= Questions	00:46
BartJol	?	00:46
BartJol	the rest is just standard template content	00:46
BartJol	not really interesting	00:47
BartJol	but I have to go, 'm really not social right now	00:48
BartJol	bye	00:48
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nuba	i sense there has been some splitting in the community lately...	00:57
+perlDreamer	nuba, per our conversation yesterday, it looks like the Help was pruned out a long time ago	01:01
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+perlDreamer	the only extra things that I've found are old, plug_in docs for Template help	01:02
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nuba	perlDreamer: ok, thanks for the heads up	01:02
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+perlDreamer	perl's hash slicing syntax sucks	01:14
@preaction	@hash{ qw( key key2 key3 ) }; # how so/	01:16
+perlDreamer	it doesn't look like a hash anymore	01:16
@preaction	it's not a hash, it's a hash slice	01:16
+perlDreamer	It's not symmetrical with array slicing. They still look like arrays, sigil wise	01:18
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5435 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Asset_SQLReport: remove some crufty files	01:18
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5436 /translations/ (55 files in 19 dirs): remove old, unused template plugin docs	01:18
+perlDreamer	Does anyone know what the NewMail macro is about?	01:24
@preaction	probably checking if a user has mail in their inbox	01:28
+perlDreamer	let's see if CIA-40 pukes on that one :)	01:29
+perlDreamer	nuba: I found the extra files, they were macro files. So all the macro docs without pure i18n labels or template info were removed.	01:32
+perlDreamer	and, due to a bug in my scanning script, I just found the extra entries, too	01:46
nuba	perlDreamer: ok. any idea of when these modifications are going to appear on i18n.webgui.org ?	01:49
+perlDreamer	Some have already been committed	01:49
+perlDreamer	The tag removal will happen as soon as I figure out how to script it.	01:49
+perlDreamer	The key revision is 5434	01:50
+perlDreamer	my first rev was 5435	01:50
+perlDreamer	hm	01:54
+perlDreamer	it will happen as soon as rizen or maybe Haarg does an svn update for the i18n server	01:54
+perlDreamer	so for now, all the old stuff is up there	01:54
@rizen	it will happen when the new 7.5.2 release comes out	01:55
@rizen	the i18n server reads out of our /data/WebGUI folder	01:55
+perlDreamer	okay	01:56
+perlDreamer	I was wondering, since the polish translation still exists (as opposed to Polish)	01:56
nuba	ok	01:56
@rizen	god damn it	01:56
@rizen	i keep deleting it	01:56
@rizen	and someone keeps recreating it	01:56
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5437 /translations/ (640 files in 19 dirs): remove pruned i18n files for macros and removed Assets	01:56
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5438 /translations/ (4 files in 2 dirs): remove a few other misc files	01:56
+perlDreamer	so far i've cut out 10 MB of old, crufty i18n	01:57
+perlDreamer	now there's only 1900 out of date entries in valid files to cut out	01:57
nuba	what will happen if I "Commit to SVN" now ?	01:58
nuba	create bogus entries again?	01:58
+perlDreamer	possibly, but don't worry about it	01:58
@rizen	commit to svn just stores the translation in svn	01:58
@rizen	in case someone decides to deface it	01:58
@rizen	that way we can roll back	01:58
+perlDreamer	but the changes I've been making need to be merged back into the "master" copy	01:59
nuba	but how about merging the changes in i18n.webgui.org with ones commited directly to the repo	01:59
nuba	yeah	01:59
* perlDreamer suspects he just signed up for that job :/		01:59
nuba	arent both commiting to https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/browse/translations/ ?	02:00
nuba	looks like that to me	02:00
+perlDreamer	yup	02:00
nuba	Last Change: jt: update_from_translation_server	02:00
nuba	everywhere	02:00
@rizen	if pd has done changes in svn directly	02:01
@rizen	and you do a commit to svn	02:01
@rizen	it will do an update automaticallly	02:01
+perlDreamer	what if they conflict?	02:02
+perlDreamer	I just tried committing the Spanish translation, and it looks okay	02:03
@rizen	if they conflict then we have a problem	02:04
@rizen	and i have to resolve it manually	02:04
nuba	I guess I'll just export the translation tgz and timestamp it after work sessions...	02:05
nuba	rizen: is /tools/translationserver.cgi all I need to run a translation server locally?	02:06
@rizen	yes, but you should not do that	02:07
+perlDreamer	nuba: one other thing to keep in mind is that the Help files which point to the i18n don't exist anymore, either.	02:07
+perlDreamer	so that i18n is essentially orphaned	02:07
@rizen	having the translations out on a central server is motivational therapy for those looking to update their translations	02:07
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@rizen	the more we have the more motivational therapy	02:08
nuba	thats true, man. it really feelt good seeing finnish and french going up too, as I was updating BrazilianPortuguese	02:08
nuba	but then I would be able to translate HEAD, not the lastest release running on plainblack.com	02:09
nuba	thats motivational too	02:09
+perlDreamer	the i18n server is HEAD	02:09
@rizen	plainblack.com is at most 1 week behind head	02:09
@rizen	i18n is not head	02:09
+perlDreamer	no?	02:09
@rizen	i18n = plainblack.com	02:09
+perlDreamer	Oh, yeah.	02:10
+perlDreamer	You're right	02:10
+perlDreamer	it pulls from /data/WebGUI	02:10
+perlDreamer	on my system, that is HEAD :)	02:10
nuba	same here	02:10
@rizen	tomorrow Haarg will release 7.5.2 and then i18n will be up to head	02:11
nuba	ok. I wont touch i18n before that and we'll then be sure there are no conflicts	02:12
+perlDreamer	rizen: translationserver bugs get logged to the bug tracker?	02:12
nuba	i wasnt planning to, anyway. thats something im doing on the weekends	02:12
@rizen	yup	02:12
nuba	rizen: BTW soon there will be no need to differentiate Brazilian Portuguese and Portuguese	02:19
@rizen	oh yeah?	02:19
@rizen	why is that?	02:19
nuba	theres a orthographic reform treaty which has been signed by almost all portuguese speaking countries	02:19
@rizen	aren't there only 2 portuguese speaking countries?	02:20
nuba	heh, no.	02:20
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@rizen	sorry for my ignorance	02:20
nuba	Spoken in: Angola, Brazil, Cape Verde, East Timor, Guinea Bissau, Chinese S.A.R. of Macau, Mozambique, Portugal and S�o Tom� and Pr�ncipe.	02:20
nuba	from wikipedia	02:20
MsGeek	Hi, I have a couple of Gooey wallpapers for you guys.	02:20
MsGeek	Where do I email them to?	02:21
@rizen	there's a site to post them to	02:21
@rizen	let me get you the url	02:21
MsGeek	They are based on a pic I took at SCALE 6x	02:21
@rizen	http://www.webgui.org/wg/promote/wallpapers	02:21
@rizen	just log in	02:21
MsGeek	Yes, but there's nowhere to upload.	02:21
@rizen	and then you'll see an option to post	02:21
MsGeek	Ah.	02:21
MsGeek	brb	02:21
nuba	rizen: having Brazilian Portuguese up to date gives WebGUI a great coverage in south america, plus some of africa	02:23
nuba	rizen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_language#Geographic_distribution	02:23
@rizen	i know. if we had spanish too we'd have prettymuch all of south america covered	02:24
nuba	SA is not like europe, where there's a different language in every town ;)	02:24
@rizen	and if we had french covered...that would give us even more of africa	02:24
nuba	with portuguese+spanish, you cant barely notice the amount you wouldn't cover in SA and Central America too	02:25
nuba	can barely*	02:25
MsGeek	Alright, I'm in.	02:25
nuba	a couple of tiny countries in the Amazon rainfores area	02:25
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5439 /tools/pushrelease.pl: beta vs stable	02:27
@rizen	that's a lot of gooeys	02:30
@rizen	Thanks MsGeek	02:31
MsGeek	Yes, there is.	02:31
@rizen	did you get your own gooey at the show?	02:31
MsGeek	And there is now an even more impressive version for widescreen.	02:31
MsGeek	Yes, I did.	02:31
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MsGeek	Once I find one of those suction cup hook thingies it's going to stick on my iMac.	02:31
@rizen	sweet	02:32
@rizen	had you heard of WebGUI or seen Gooey before Scale?	02:33
MsGeek	Originally I had an Ayanami Rei (Neon Genesis Evangelion) chibi plushie, but a friend of mine is more of a Gainax fan than I am and he was feeling a little depressed so I gave it to him.	02:33
MsGeek	No, wasn't aware of it.	02:33
@rizen	Well, we're glad to have you here now. Welcome.	02:33
MsGeek	I don't know if my webhost has WebGUI as an option for content management.	02:34
@rizen	if not, you should request it	02:34
nuba	you gave away your Ayanami Rei plush doll??	02:34
MsGeek	It was the Holidays. I was being generous.	02:35
* nuba watched EVA 1-25+3 movies 3x		02:35
MsGeek	And I figured I'd find another one eventually.	02:35
MsGeek	This machine I'm on is netnamed Eva00 because it's the same shade of indigo blue.	02:35
nuba	i had my EVA-enthusiast fad a few years ago	02:36
* MsGeek is looking forward to You Are (Not) Alone when it comes out.		02:36
metanil	if i want to add a new template variable in an asset, then will $self->set("templatename","value"); will work.. if it, then which method should i write this code	02:37
metanil	?	02:37
MsGeek	Anyway, lemme look at what my host offers on Fantastico and get back to you.	02:37
@rizen	ok...well thanks for the submission	02:37
@rizen	oh, and if you have any other photos of our booth you'd like to share	02:38
@rizen	post them here: http://www.webgui.org/webgui/campaigns/gooey-on-the-go	02:38
MsGeek	They've got everything but your product.	02:41
@rizen	they probably just haven't been properly introduced to it	02:41
@rizen	=)	02:41
MsGeek	Drupal Geeklog Joomla Mambo Open Source PHP-Nuke phpWCMS phpWebSite Post-Nuke Siteframe TYPO3 Xoops	02:43
MsGeek	That's the list.	02:43
@rizen	all php stuff	02:43
@rizen	maybe that's why	02:43
@rizen	maybe they are a php only hoster	02:43
MsGeek	Yeah, they're big on LAMP there.	02:44
@rizen	we're lamp to	02:44
MsGeek	So, oh well.	02:44
@rizen	where P = Perl	02:44
MsGeek	Ah.	02:44
MsGeek	Maybe they aren't Perl fans.	02:45
MsGeek	One thing for sure, I'd never be crazy enough to run a Nuke site, either PHP-Nuke or Post-Nuke.	02:46
MsGeek	I did that...once.	02:46
@rizen	they get hacked every 3rd second	02:46
MsGeek	Yep!	02:46
MsGeek	Easy enough to hack even for a crapflooder idiot with only two brain cells to rub together.	02:47
@rizen	Well MsGeek...even if you can't use WebGUI at your hoster, welcome to our community. We're glad to have you here.	02:47
MsGeek	Anyway, good talking to you, and I'm glad you liked my pics.	02:48
MsGeek	Take care all...	02:48
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@rizen	that's one...now we just need the 700 other people we talked to to come on over	02:48
@rizen	=)	02:48
nuba	thats a 0.14% conversion rate until now	02:51
nuba	from booth visitor to irc visitor	02:51
nuba	you	02:52
nuba	you're doing well, considering the came AND contributed	02:52
nuba	he*	02:52
@rizen	yeah	02:52
@rizen	that's amazing	02:52
@rizen	oh btw	02:52
@rizen	you guys may be interested to know that the PB staff now has a blog	02:52
@rizen	http://www.plainblack.com/pr/staff/blog	02:52
@rizen	they're prettying it up	02:53
@rizen	but it's already got a number of posts	02:53
nuba	Can they freely speak there? Workflow is Commit With Approval? ;)	02:53
@rizen	they can speak freely there	02:54
@rizen	except about ongoing client projects	02:54
@rizen	cuz we could be sued for that	02:54
@rizen	oh and they can't say anything bad about any client, ongoing project or not	02:55
@rizen	other than that, they can say what they want	02:55
nuba	fair enough	02:55
nuba	what about visitors commenting and not following these guidelines	02:56
@rizen	visitors don't know anything about our clients or client projects	02:57
@rizen	so they couldn't possibly comment on them	02:57
nuba	rizen: FYI http://www.plainblack.com/pr/products-and-services isnt listing these /news/news/webgui-vps	03:01
@rizen	thanks i'll have someone fix it	03:02
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nuba	'nite guys, off to bed	03:22
perlmonkey2	http://www.plainblack.com/intranet/blog/blog.rss formatting is broke, I see wallOfText	04:09
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ryuu_ro	hi guys, in a navigation template I'm doing something like this <tmpl_if page.ownerUserId="3"> FOO </tmpl_if>	11:27
ryuu_ro	but then i get a syntax error	11:28
ryuu_ro	can't i use page.ownerUserId in this way?	11:28
BartJol	and if you make it <tmpl_if <tmpl_var ownerUserId>="3">?	12:07
ryuu_ro	give me a sec	12:09
ryuu_ro	nope	12:12
BartJol	too bad	12:12
ryuu_ro	replaced the dot with an underscore, that' too is not the solution	12:13
BartJol	ryuu_ro , besides the docs I just gave you, I have some more, you can come and check them, if needed	12:32
ryuu_ro	ok, tnx	12:32
ryuu_ro	i gonna check the docs first	12:32
ryuu_ro	then we'll have lunch :)	12:32
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Radix__	what template engine are you using ryuu_ro ?	13:36
Radix__	html::template won't do that - you need either template toolkit or the extended html::template (I forget the name off the top of my head)	13:37
Radix__	html::template::expr	13:38
Radix__	you can use java to bolster the base template engine up a bit, but then you get a javascript requirement	13:38
Radix__	javascript I mean	13:39
ryuu_ro	ah tnx Radix, i think i will go back to Template Toolkit then	13:54
ryuu_ro	on the other hand, i'm using yui for the menu so javascript is already required	13:55
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BartJol	Hi Radix	14:28
BartJol	do you know if it harms security if a value, given with a macro can be set to anything?	14:29
BartJol	default is zero, any other value effectively means 1	14:29
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BartJol	there is not much happening with the value, just a test whether a calculation should be made or not	14:32
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Radix__	depends how it's used I guess, probably not	15:55
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SDuensin	Good morning.	16:04
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wgGuest62	hello	16:05
ryuu_ro	morning	16:06
wgGuest62	about one week ago i did a upgrade of my web sites that were in 7.3.22 to the latest version of webgui. in that ocassion i had an error, so i had to return to 7.3.22 again	16:07
wgGuest62	yesterday i tried to do the same but when the upgrade script start, i obtain some errors	16:08
wgGuest62	you can see the errors at http://webgui.pastebin.com/m27cd57da	16:10
wgGuest62	if someone can help me, thanks in advance	16:13
perlmonkey2	wgGuest62: That looks kind of serious. Like an schema upgrade failed half way through.	16:20
wgGuest62	i don't know what to do	16:23
wgGuest62	i am comparing the mysql databases of two versions 7.3.22 vs 7.4.15	16:27
wgGuest62	in 7.3.22 in the colaboration table does not exist the column threadApprovalWorkflow	16:28
wgGuest62	the upgrade from 7.3.22 to 7.4.0 will add the column?	16:29
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wgGuest62	hello	17:05
wgGuest62	when i run spectre i obtain the next error 'jsonToObj' will be obsoleted. Please use 'from_json' instead. at ../lib/WebGUI/Config.pm line 342	17:05
wgGuest62	i don't how to fix it?	17:06
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wgGuest37	hello	17:09
wgGuest37	i can to use the module VUser::Google::ProvisioningAPI in a macro?	17:09
wgGuest62	hello	17:19
wgGuest62	help me again	17:19
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wgGuest37	hi	17:29
wgGuest62	hi	17:29
wgGuest37	how are you?	17:29
wgGuest62	how are you, too	17:31
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perlmonkey2	wgGuest62: still there?	17:43
perlmonkey2	wgGuest62: if someone is in irc and you want their attention, say their name. Most irc clients will alert the person that their name was said.	17:43
perlmonkey2	wgGuest62: Are you running WG from source or the WRE (I'm guessing source).	17:44
perlmonkey2	if source, then open the cpan shell by 'cpan' then type 'force install Config::JSON'	17:44
perlmonkey2	or actually I think the cpan bug is fixed and you can just type 'cpan -i Config::JSON' on the command line.	17:44
wgGuest62	i am running from source	17:44
wgGuest62	i have installed config::json without any problems	17:45
wgGuest62	i was upgrading from 73.22 to 7.4	17:46
wgGuest62	in 7.3.22 i don't have installed Config::JSON, so to do the upgrade, i installed it	17:47
wgGuest62	but i obtained some errors in the upgrade, i have to ruturned to 7.3.22	17:48
wgGuest62	7.3.22 don't need Config::JSON, so would have some problem if it is installed?	17:49
wgGuest62	perlmonkey2, do you know what can i do?	17:52
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ckotil	http://snare.grnoc.iu.edu/free.sub.png	17:54
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ckotil	thats to penn station btw.	17:59
perlmonkey2	wgGuest62: You definetely need Config::JSON	18:12
perlmonkey2	and having the most up to date version will break your older webgui install.	18:12
perlmonkey2	But the point is to upgrade webgui, right?	18:12
perlmonkey2	the database error is the real trouble. your upgrade script is trying to create a table that already exists and then erroring out. I sure hope you followed guidelines and created a full database backup before starting to upgrade.	18:13
perlmonkey2	But perhaps you can manually delete the table	18:14
perlmonkey2	but probably best of all, I hear plainblack has an excellent support service, very reasonably priced.	18:14
perlmonkey2	Whom better to resolve Webgui issues than the masterminds behind webgui?	18:15
wgGuest37	hello	18:17
wgGuest37	i have a macro and when i run, webgui.log show me this: ERROR - www.prueba.com.conf - WebGUI::Session::ErrorHandler::error[184] - Could not run on WebGUI::Macro::Prueba because it does not exist at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Macro.pm line 140, what i must do?	18:17
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br4k3r	hey all	19:24
br4k3r	got a problem with my crumbtrail	19:24
+perlDreamer	yo, br4k4r	19:24
+perlDreamer	birds?	19:24
+perlDreamer	or malignant fairy demons bent on stopping you from reaching the city to save the baby?	19:25
br4k3r	well	19:25
br4k3r	heres how it's set up	19:25
br4k3r	Start Point: relative to current url	19:26
br4k3r	start point ./ (0)	19:26
br4k3r	ancestor end point ../ (-1)	19:26
br4k3r	include ancestors, self, decendands, pedigree	19:26
br4k3r	decendant end point is ./a/ (+1)	19:26
br4k3r	when i click on a sub link (example Home > About Us)	19:27
br4k3r	it displays the trail properly... when i go back to the home it displays Home > About Us > Links > Contact Us > Calendar	19:27
+perlDreamer	two questions:	19:28
+perlDreamer	1) what version of wG are you using?	19:28
+perlDreamer	2) Can you duplicate this on the demo site?	19:28
br4k3r	I'm using wG 7.4.22	19:30
br4k3r	i am not running a demo site	19:31
br4k3r	as a side note, I created my own theme...	19:31
+perlDreamer	I understand that, but it's always good to check if it's due to your templating, or due to the core asset.	19:31
+perlDreamer	So would you please try to duplicate it on the demo site?	19:31
br4k3r	will do... brb	19:31
+perlDreamer	Need some bash scripting help	19:32
@preaction	you've got questions, we've got answers!	19:33
+perlDreamer	How do I translate this to bash?	19:33
+perlDreamer	http://webgui.pastebin.com/m59b52df4	19:33
+perlDreamer	and as a 1-liner?	19:33
@preaction	svn revert -r .	19:35
@preaction	sorry, -R	19:35
+perlDreamer	wow	19:36
+perlDreamer	I didn't know you could do svn in bash :)	19:36
@preaction	of course	19:36
@preaction	bash has access to any program on your PATH	19:36
+perlDreamer	There's only 2 things stopping me from switching from tcsh to bash	19:37
@preaction	if you want to pass in a folder to revert, it'd be more like svn revert -R $1	19:37
+perlDreamer	1) writing little for scripts	19:37
+perlDreamer	2) setting file complete to 1 tab	19:37
@preaction	for file in *	19:39
+perlDreamer	Don't you need a "do" in there someplace?	19:40
@preaction	do; cd $file; svn revert $file; cd ..; done	19:40
@preaction	; means a line-break, since i'm lazy	19:40
+perlDreamer	k	19:40
@preaction	http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/index.html <- advanced bash-scripting guide. quickly gets to the heart of things	19:41
+perlDreamer	thanks, preaction	19:42
+perlDreamer	bug --	19:50
@apeiron	apply ls *	19:51
@apeiron	apply > all shell for loops	19:51
@apeiron	Downside: BSD-only	19:51
+perlDreamer	I'm pretty linux centric nowadays	19:52
+perlDreamer	they finally moved us off Solaris at $dayJob to RHEL4	19:52
+perlDreamer	CIA-40 is going to puke on that commit, too	19:53
nuba	some nice loops here too http://zsh.sunsite.dk/Doc/Release/zsh_5.html#SEC22	19:53
+perlDreamer	is zsh syntax compatible with bash?	19:53
nuba	I dont think so	19:54
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nuba	I started using bash lately more because of the WRE	19:56
ckotil	even if you put zsh in the hash bang?	19:56
nuba	was getting random errors here and there, and all smoother with bash	19:56
+perlDreamer	that's what I'm thinking, too	19:57
ckotil	yeah, bash rocks.	19:57
ckotil	;)	19:57
nuba	well I could have tried to find out what was wrong, but I was really busy so i got bash from /usr/ports and moved on to other things	19:59
nuba	zsh completion for programm's switches really rocks	20:00
ckotil	ohh, that sounds cool.	20:00
@khenn	hey, who did the fancy graphics for the staff blog?	20:06
@khenn	was that steve?	20:06
@khenn	looks cool	20:06
@preaction	yeah, he asked me about it last night	20:07
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+perlDreamer	meatbop rocks	20:13
@preaction	indeed	20:14
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5440 /translations/ (330 files in 16 dirs): brought i18n files up to date with HEAD, removing old entries	20:22
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@preaction	any idea why the ^User("field"); macro would return undef even if I clear the cache and the name of the field is right?	20:58
@preaction	nm, must be a cache issue. i tried on a user who's never logged in before and it works	21:00
@preaction	the user cache must be really difficult to clear out	21:00
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ckotil	its really difficult to make a .swf clickable as a link. i think a good rfe would be implement a click through url into the file asset for swf's	21:51
@rizen	it's not hard to do it at all	21:52
ckotil	im able to make my swf clickable in safari and ff (mac only) every other browser will not allow it.	21:52
ckotil	oh? i placed an invisible div over my swf and wrapped that in an a tag	21:52
@rizen	you're thinking too hard	21:52
ckotil	<a href=""><object></object></a> doesnt work.	21:53
ckotil	please tell me your secret	21:53
@rizen	maybe i'm not understanding what you want to do	21:53
@rizen	oh	21:53
@rizen	wait now i get it	21:53
@rizen	you actually want the movie to become a link	21:53
ckotil	correct. done only in html	21:54
@rizen	not that you want to link to the movie	21:54
@rizen	ok	21:54
ckotil	yes.	21:54
@rizen	yeah, that doesn't work in ie	21:54
ckotil	youtube does it so gracefully.	21:54
@rizen	you actually have to build that url into the movie itself	21:54
ckotil	yah, thats pry how they do it.	21:54
@rizen	sorry for the confusion there	21:54
ckotil	our new network weathermap tool is flash based.	21:54
ckotil	no prob. my heart only skipped a couple beats	21:55
ckotil	http://atlas.grnoc.iu.edu/I2.html	21:55
ckotil	and we use the same swf for a small 'mini-map' but neevr hard coded a click through url into the swf.	21:55
ckotil	thats on the feature request list now tho.	21:55
ckotil	http://noc.nlr.net/ mini versions.	21:56
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CIA-40	WebGUI: graham * r5441 /WebGUI/docs/ (2 files in 2 dirs): preparing for 7.5.2 release	23:19
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+perlDreamer	nuba: Are you awake?	23:57
nuba	kinda	23:58
nuba	you took the red pill too?	23:58
+perlDreamer	In portugese, are the words for button (like clothing) and button (like web page) the same?	23:58
nuba	nope	23:58
nuba	actually yes	23:58
nuba	botao applies to both	23:58
nuba	bot�o	23:59
nuba	with a tilde over tje a	23:59
nuba	the*	23:59
--- Day changed Fri Feb 15 2008
+perlDreamer	thanks	00:01
+perlDreamer	I'm filling in some of the Spanish translation	00:01
perlmonkey2	when did 8GB flash drives drop to $30?	00:02
nuba	in spanish is boton and plural botones	00:03
+perlDreamer	Yes	00:03
+perlDreamer	Is it better to use UTF-8 characters for accents on web pages, or HTML encodings?	00:03
nuba	or bot�n with a � over the second o	00:03
+perlDreamer	never mind, the editor auto translates to encodings	00:04
@apeiron	perlbot, utf8 ?	00:04
perlbot	? U+FFFD "REPLACEMENT CHARACTER", category: "Specials", utf8 bytes: EF BF BD	00:04
nuba	perlDreamer: if the page encoding is UTF-8, using UTF-8 chars is great	00:04
nuba	why not?	00:04
@apeiron	� perhaps?	00:04
@apeiron	perlbot, utf8 �	00:04
perlbot	� U+00E3 "LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH TILDE", category: "Latin-1 Supplement", utf8 bytes: C3 A3, upper-case: U+00C3 (�)	00:04
@apeiron	nuba, Your IRC client isn't set to use UTF8, is it?	00:05
nuba	nope	00:06
nuba	term_charset = US-ASCII in my irssi	00:06
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5442 /releases/WebGUI_7.5.2-beta: Release 7.5.2-beta	00:09
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5443 /tools/translationserver.cgi: fix a typo so that we can find out why the Polish translation does not work	00:09
CIA-40	WebGUI: graham * r5444 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): preparing for 7.5.3 dev	00:09
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spersyn	hello	00:40
+perlDreamer	howdy	00:40
+perlDreamer	Do you have a WebGUI question?	00:40
spersyn	yep: see log at http://webgui.pastebin.com/d3498b7f9	00:42
+perlDreamer	what version of WebGUI are you running?	00:43
spersyn	spectre does not start. says: cann't connect to 127.0.0.1: 32133	00:43
+perlDreamer	What version of WebGUI are you running, and did you recently upgrade?	00:44
spersyn	just installed wre 0.8.1 with auto;ated install	00:44
spersyn	automated	00:44
spersyn	so should be latest stable release	00:44
spersyn	7.5	00:44
+perlDreamer	7.5 is not the latest stable release, it's beta	00:44
+perlDreamer	It sounds like you're running an old version of JSON	00:45
+perlDreamer	what happens if you go to /data/WebGUI/sbin	00:45
spersyn	tryint to run tesenvironment.pl: says JSON version is 1.x, should be 2.y	00:45
+perlDreamer	Yeah, you need to upgrade.	00:45
spersyn	yes but here is the upgrade result using testenvironment.pl	00:46
spersyn	http://webgui.pastebin.com/d7e29ebf9	00:46
spersyn	doesn't want to	00:47
+perlDreamer	you may have to install it manually	00:47
+perlDreamer	perl -MCPAN -e shell	00:47
+perlDreamer	install JSON	00:47
spersyn	aargg same output if manually done (Writing Makefile for JSON	00:49
spersyn	-- NOT OK	00:49
spersyn	)	00:49
spersyn	what is the equivqlent of make clean in coan cli?	00:50
spersyn	cpan cli?	00:50
+perlDreamer	I don't think there is one	00:50
+perlDreamer	Which OS are you using?	00:50
spersyn	mandriva (redhat alike)	00:50
spersyn	2008 version	00:50
spersyn	is there another way, like download the JSON module, and build it manually?	00:52
+perlDreamer	yes	00:52
+perlDreamer	Go to search.cpan.org	00:52
nuba	GooeyOfSteel: check www.plainblack.com	00:52
+perlDreamer	search for JSON	00:52
GooeyOfSteel	www.plainblack.com Server: Apache/2.0 \| Generator: WebGUI 7.5.2	00:52
+perlDreamer	download it	00:52
+perlDreamer	unpack the file	00:52
+perlDreamer	cd into the distribution area	00:52
+perlDreamer	type perl Makefile.PL	00:52
@apeiron	I've seen that some, possibly lots, of Linux distributions like to ship without things like make installed, for some unfathomable reason.	00:52
+perlDreamer	ew	00:53
spersyn	ok thanks I'll try this way, and 'll let you know	00:53
+perlDreamer	but that shouldn't prevent you from running perl Makefile.PL, would it?	00:53
@apeiron	perlDreamer, No, just the next command'll b0rk. :)	00:53
+perlDreamer	yeah, this guy can't even build the Makefile	00:53
nuba	apeiron: leaving compiling/debugging tools in the system is by some considered to increase insecurity, as these tools would be available to any would-be intruders.	00:54
@apeiron	nuba, Tell that to the BSD systems that've been doing it since before Linux existed.	00:54
+perlDreamer	anyone know how to do a variable width, negative look-behind assertion in a regex?	00:54
@apeiron	nuba, Like... say... OpenBSD. :)	00:54
nuba	apeiron: i just wanted to shed some light on the "for some unfathomable reason."	00:55
nuba	im not a slim-as-hell enthusiast, but I do endorse the practice of installing barely the necessary in a server	00:55
nuba	so more like slim-as-needed	00:56
nuba	or too slim and you make the sysadmin's job a PITA	00:56
spersyn	mandriva is distribution let's say for novices in linux. that explains why tehy restrict the possibilities, I assume.. :)	00:57
nuba	well i think a distro for novices should come with the usual tools ready for use	01:00
nuba	to ease the learning curve of these novices	01:00
nuba	spersyn: you need to be a bit beyond the novice level to know exactly what tools you need to install in a server to accompllish a given task	01:01
spersyn	yes. i'm a little bit more than novice. but just saw that default install of mandriva doesn't even include the make package	01:03
+perlDreamer	you'll need make eventually	01:03
+perlDreamer	and gcc	01:03
+perlDreamer	and a whole raft of other things	01:03
+perlDreamer	check out the install instructions and check your package list	01:04
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spersyn	k. I've upgraded JSON and Config::JSON	01:20
spersyn	let's test by restarting spectre now...	01:21
spersyn	it works :)	01:22
spersyn	thanks very ;uch for the help. I had to install the perl modules manually at the end	01:24
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+perlDreamer	Is colon ':', a valid URL type character?	01:49
+perlDreamer	In other words, could I have http://mysite.com/left:right/foo as a valid URL?	01:49
@rizen	: is invalid	01:52
+perlDreamer	cool. Thanks!	01:52
+perlDreamer	bug--	02:06
metanil	does the the template variable ownerUserId return the owner of the file?	02:08
+perlDreamer	ownerUserId is whoever owns that Asset.	02:08
+perlDreamer	regardless of the kind of asset	02:08
metanil	i upload a file with different user.. but its showing same Id	02:08
metanil	then it applies for file asset as well.	02:09
+perlDreamer	yes, although what template are you using?	02:09
metanil	"File Folder"	02:10
+perlDreamer	hm	02:10
+perlDreamer	let me check	02:10
metanil	there is folder ..and within it there are files.	02:10
+perlDreamer	ownerUserId does not have a template variable for the owner of all the files	02:10
+perlDreamer	only for the folder itself	02:10
+perlDreamer	I mean, Folder does not have a template variable for the owner of the files	02:11
metanil	oh! that means it is now showing the owner of folder not an individual file.	02:11
+perlDreamer	Yes	02:11
+perlDreamer	Check out the file_loop variables in the folder template	02:11
metanil	.. what if i want to show ownerid for file.	02:11
metanil	within a folder	02:11
+perlDreamer	You'll have to change the folder asset	02:11
metanil	in method view?	02:12
+perlDreamer	whereever the template variables are defined	02:12
metanil	within this -> foreach my $child (@{$children}) {	02:12
+perlDreamer	view is a good place to start looking	02:12
metanil	like this http://webgui.pastebin.com/d622a41c6 ?	02:13
+perlDreamer	is getOwnerUserName a valid WebGUI Asset method call?	02:14
+perlDreamer	never seen that one	02:14
metanil	no no.. :D .. i added it	02:14
+perlDreamer	Did you add it to Asset, or to Folder or to File?	02:14
metanil	this is from Asset/Wobject/Folder.pm	02:15
+perlDreamer	well, unless it's available from all of the File Assets (File, Image, ZipArchive), etc. that won't work	02:15
+perlDreamer	wrong inheritance structure	02:15
metanil	and $child->getOwnerUserName will call WebGUI::Asset::File	02:16
metanil	any hints?	02:16
metanil	But i think its going to each files within that loop.. so calling ownerId would definitely return the owner of that file.. (thats what i had guessed)	02:18
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5445 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fix double and single slash handling in URLs, whether using SSL or not. Add tests to check	02:19
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5446 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt: put fix in correct version	02:19
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5447 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): forward port slash handling fix from 7.4 branch	02:20
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metanil	so any other good approaches?	02:32
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metanil	i see 'stateChangedBy' in asset table .. what will it refers?	02:58
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metanil	i can see 'stateChangedBy' in asset table in database .. what will it refers? is it mean by last updated by??	03:25
@rizen	stateChangedBy is the userId of the user the published it or put it in the trash or cut it to the clipboard	03:28
metanil	oh!! .. so if i edit some asset where will it be logged?	03:29
metanil	there is only createdby field in that table.	03:30
@rizen	look in assetData	03:31
@rizen	that contains the other info you're looking for	03:31
metanil	thnx.. got it.	03:32
metanil	rizen, thanks i got it working..	03:51
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CIA-40	WebGUI: graham * r5448 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Auth.pm): Reject HTML and macros in usernames	09:38
CIA-40	WebGUI: graham * r5449 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (3 files in 3 dirs): preparing for 7.4.24 release	09:38
CIA-40	WebGUI: graham * r5450 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/lib/WebGUI/ (i18n/English/WebGUI.pm Auth.pm): fix HTML and macros rejection for usernames	09:38
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CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5451 /releases/WebGUI_7.4.24-stable: Release 7.4.24-stable	13:19
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wgGuest31	hello	16:15
BartJol	hi	16:15
BartJol	what's up?	16:16
wgGuest31	i have an error with spectre	16:18
wgGuest31	i upgraded from 7.3.22 to 7.4.21	16:18
BartJol	in one step?	16:18
wgGuest31	the error is the next	16:18
BartJol	yes?	16:20
wgGuest31	http://webgui.pastebin.com/m3f6d8edf	16:20
wgGuest31	i thinks i for the json's version	16:21
ryuu_ro_	wgGuest31: do you run WRE?	16:22
BartJol	ryuu can help you better on this one	16:22
wgGuest31	no, i run from source	16:22
ryuu_ro_	ok, did you run testEnvironment before you upgraded?	16:25
wgGuest31	yes	16:25
ryuu_ro_	no errors came up?	16:25
wgGuest31	no	16:25
ryuu_ro_	good	16:25
wgGuest31	i have two servers in the same version	16:26
wgGuest31	i have been comparing the json's version	16:27
wgGuest31	and in one fo them i don't have problems and i have json 1.00 and config::json is 1.1.1	16:28
wgGuest31	in the server that i have this problem i have json 2.06 and config::json 1.1.4	16:28
ryuu_ro_	in the gotcha file there is something mentioned about force installinng config::json 1.1.0 before upgrading	16:29
ryuu_ro_	but i'm not sure for which version	16:29
wgGuest31	but the problem is that i have config::json 1.1.4 installed	16:30
wgGuest31	how can uninstall this module to install again?	16:30
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wgGuest31	in the gotcha.txt from version 7.4.21 i found, You must upgrade to Config::JSON 1.1.0 or higher prior to upgrading.	16:32
ryuu_ro_	SynQ had a problem with config::Json 1.1.4 too, but he's not online now	16:33
ryuu_ro_	If you want to downgrade I quess you have to download the tar form cpan and manually install it	16:33
ryuu_ro_	not sure about this though	16:33
wgGuest31	is there a problem if i have both versions installed?	16:35
wgGuest31	or how can i remove the module?	16:35
@rizen	you can't remove it, you just have to install over it	16:36
@rizen	by downloading from cpan directly and then installing the old version	16:36
wgGuest31	ok	16:36
wgGuest31	i am going to do	16:36
wgGuest31	thanks	16:36
wgGuest31	rizen, i have installed old versions of json and config::json, but i continue with the same problem	17:12
CIA-40	WebGUI: graham * r5452 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Reject HTML and macros in usernames	17:12
wgGuest31	what do you think about upgrading from 7.4.21 to 7.4.22?	17:13
@rizen	why do you call me by name? i don't know what you're talking about. i wasn't here when you were discussing your problem.	17:13
@rizen	um...it's a good idea	17:14
wgGuest31	ok	17:14
wgGuest31	thanks	17:14
@rizen	you need to be on the latest version of JSON and COnfig::JSOn to do that though	17:16
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BartJol	perldreamer, Koen has filed his copy of your presentation in a huge pile of paper, cd's etc. And the pile has been badly indexed	18:30
+perlDreamer	BartJol, I'll email you a copy tonight when I get back to $home	18:30
+perlDreamer	Please PM me your email address	18:30
BartJol	great, you're my hero	18:30
@rizen	perlDreamer: branch/WebGUI_Commerce is the place to work	18:43
+perlDreamer	cool	18:43
+perlDreamer	when/how do we start writing tests?	18:44
BartJol	bye	18:45
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@rizen	we start now	18:45
@rizen	i'm setting up a mailing list for us	18:45
@rizen	or do you think we should just keep discussion on the dev mailing list?	18:45
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5453 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce: A place to put new commerce stuff until it's ready	18:46
@rizen	i just don't want a bunch of no-nothing opinionated bastards to interrupt our work	18:46
@rizen	i guess we could just ignore them	18:46
+perlDreamer	I'm pretty thick skinned these days	18:47
+perlDreamer	but an email list has the advantage of keeping a record of assignments and decisions	18:47
+perlDreamer	I think it's a good idea.	18:47
@rizen	let's just do it on the dev mailing list	18:47
@rizen	it doesn't get much traffic these days	18:47
@rizen	ok i threw out the first assignements on the dev mailing list	18:53
@rizen	pd	18:55
+perlDreamer	?	18:55
@rizen	the testing document you sent me doesn't even mention test::class	18:55
+perlDreamer	No, it's problematic right now.	18:55
@rizen	oh	18:55
+perlDreamer	It's the cause of that perl problem I told you about	18:55
@rizen	so i should stick with the old tests?	18:55
+perlDreamer	Yes.	18:56
@rizen	ok	18:56
+perlDreamer	It seems to work okay on MacOS, but Fedora/i386 (32 and 64 bit) and BSD don't work	18:56
+perlDreamer	rizen: I'm not seeing anything from the dev list.	19:01
+perlDreamer	Was spectre restarted yesterday after the upgrade?	19:01
@rizen	i just emailed it a couple minutes ago	19:01
@rizen	it's on a 5 minute cycle methinks	19:01
+perlDreamer	k	19:01
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5454 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/t/Shop: where the new commerce tests wil go	19:02
+perlDreamer	I have to go and play disk space cop. I'll be back in a little while	19:03
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dionak	hey guys. quick question on removing a site. i recently removed a few sites from our WG installation and ended up with cron jobs trying to run against sites/dbs that no longer existed. Is there an extra step I need to do to prevent this?	19:11
dionak	i'm getting ready to remove another...	19:11
+perlDreamer	Do you mean cron/cron jobs, or Spectre/Cron jobs?	19:12
dionak	are both created for a site when it's added?	19:13
+perlDreamer	added via the WRE?	19:13
dionak	yes, using the add site script.	19:13
dionak	i use the remove site script when taking them off	19:13
+perlDreamer	according to the WRE instructions on the wiki, the cron jobs have to be added manually	19:14
+perlDreamer	so I'd guess they have to be removed manually, too	19:14
+perlDreamer	but I'm not a WRE user, so do take that with a grain of salt	19:14
dionak	what about spectre? should i check to see if a spectre cron is running before removing?	19:14
@rizen	spectre just needs to be restarted after removing the site	19:19
@rizen	same with modperl	19:19
@rizen	and modproxy	19:19
dionak	that is the normal process. i'm just not sure how those processes were still in the system after removal but i'll see how this one goes.	19:20
@rizen	what processes are we talking about here? you didn't answer the question above whether you were talking about Spectre cron or unix cron.	19:21
dionak	i believe they were spectre because I recall seeing pb0000001 (or similar) in the webgui.log relating to the error	19:22
dionak	not sure about the # of 0's	19:22
dionak	is that hourly workflows?	19:23
dionak	is there going to be a presentation at the WUC on workflows? i don't use them often and could probably use a refresher...	19:26
@rizen	there was one last year	19:27
@rizen	won't be one this year	19:27
@rizen	the admin guide goes into workflows in quite a bit of detail	19:27
@rizen	i think you guys have a copy	19:27
dionak	ok, we have a copy of that..	19:28
@rizen	and there is more about workflows in the developers guide coming out in a couple months (i know that doesn't help you know)	19:28
dionak	ah, but it will. :)	19:28
dionak	i think i just need an understanding of system workflows and creating them.	19:28
dionak	for instance, we redeveloped our site under dev.knowmad.com and then I ported the db over to production. i still have some workflows running for RSS feeds that are looking at dev.knowmad.com.	19:29
dionak	still trying to find those....	19:29
dionak	anyways, thanks. i'll go read a bit..	19:33
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@rizen	perlDreamer just an fyi	20:15
@rizen	you introduced a bug at	20:15
@rizen	https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/diff/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Cron.pm?rev1=5356;rev2=5357	20:15
+perlDreamer	yes, I think Frank mentioned that last week	20:15
@rizen	that is fixed here: https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/diff/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Cron.pm?rev1=5454;rev2=5455	20:16
@rizen	the reason i bring i up is to see if there's something you see that i don't see	20:16
@rizen	you're checking for a hash ref on a string, cuz the text is still json	20:16
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+perlDreamer	That's based on a fix from the Commerce system which was incorrectly applied here in the Cron	20:17
@rizen	ok	20:17
@rizen	nevermind then	20:17
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5455 /WebGUI/ (lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Cron.pm docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt): faulty ref check	20:18
@rizen	anyway, that is why the emails from dev mailing list weren't going out	20:19
@rizen	or coming in	20:19
+perlDreamer	I thought that Frank fixed it last week after talking to me about it.	20:19
@rizen	looks like it was already fixed in the 7.4 branch	20:19
@rizen	but not head	20:19
+perlDreamer	that would explain it	20:19
@rizen	btw if you find flaws in my spec feel free to point them out	20:20
@rizen	i'm going to upload an open document version of it shortly	20:20
@rizen	cuz i found some flaws	20:20
+perlDreamer	Cool.	20:21
+perlDreamer	Googe doc, or OO.org?	20:21
@rizen	oo.org	20:21
@rizen	would you prefer google doc?	20:22
+perlDreamer	No. Just curious	20:22
nuba	btw Google Docs is HTML. you can switch from/to HTML editing mode there.	20:28
+perlDreamer	I'm going to ask Peter to help me with translating WebGUI into Spanish	20:28
nuba	cool	20:30
nuba	muy bueno	20:30
@rizen	nuba, how many languages do you speak?	20:31
+perlDreamer	He had a blast on the Wikipedia article	20:31
+perlDreamer	I hope this will be as good.	20:31
nuba	portuguese, english, lots of spanish, some french, some italian	20:32
@rizen	you are a god to me	20:33
nuba	you guys?	20:33
@rizen	my native language is garbled crap	20:34
@rizen	and i speak a little bit of english	20:34
nuba	lol	20:34
+perlDreamer	English, a little spanish, a little german, some phrases in vietnamese, perl, fortran, assembly	20:36
nuba	i think when you're not in a dominant country you have a strong motivation to learn other languages	20:36
@rizen	i think most americans are at a strong disadvantage for not speaking at least one additional language	20:36
@rizen	i know i am	20:36
+perlDreamer	You should learn English, then, to augment your garbled crap	20:37
@rizen	i've been trying to learn english, but it's hard	20:37
nuba	well im still learning english, you guys please let me know if you see me making any weird looking phrases	20:40
+perlDreamer	Si estara' una problema, nos le dicemos	20:41
+perlDreamer	First Commit. w00t!	20:41
nuba	perlDreamer: its si hay algun problema, te haremos saber.	20:44
+perlDreamer	"If this is some problem, we make you to know"	20:45
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+perlDreamer	I see.	20:45
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nuba	that means "if there is any problem, we`ll let you know"	20:45
+perlDreamer	Necesito practicar mas	20:46
nuba	correcto	20:46
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5456 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/t/Shop/Tax.t: add Tax tests for new and session method	20:50
+perlDreamer	rizen: I have a spec suggestion to make	21:04
@rizen	ok	21:04
+perlDreamer	I think we should have a version history page which lists changes in each release	21:04
+perlDreamer	either that, or have the doc itself under version control	21:04
+perlDreamer	that way you can quickly find the changes, rather than reading through everything each time	21:04
@rizen	we already link to the change long	21:04
@rizen	log	21:05
@rizen	on getwebgui.com	21:05
@rizen	what else are you looking for?	21:05
+perlDreamer	for the commerce spec	21:05
@rizen	oh	21:06
@rizen	but even if we versioned the doc you wouldn't be able to see what changed	21:06
@rizen	it would have to be text or html	21:06
+perlDreamer	true	21:06
+perlDreamer	and with text we'd lose the graphics	21:07
@rizen	which isn't ideal for the graphics and stuff that are in there	21:07
@rizen	text also isn't good for the tables	21:07
@rizen	we'd need to use html	21:07
+perlDreamer	but then the doc isn't flat	21:07
+perlDreamer	the graphics are stored outside	21:07
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5457 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Tax.pm t/Shop/Tax.t lib/WebGUI/Shop):	21:15
CIA-40	WebGUI: Fix a bad use test in Shop/Tax.t	21:15
CIA-40	WebGUI: Begin Tax.pm, using Class::InsideOut with a basic constructor and a session method.	21:15
nuba	Google Docs keeps track of every change in the doc, and when you choose to show a specific version it shows who did what.	21:25
nuba	let me just confirm it...	21:26
nuba	is there any pastebin-like tool for screenshots ?	21:28
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@rizen	flickr?	21:38
nuba	found these http://imagebin.org/ http://imagebin.ca/ and http://www.imagebin.eu/	21:48
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5458 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/t/Shop/Cart.t: base cart tests	21:48
@rizen	methinks you should add those to the irc page in the wiki	21:49
nuba	and the creator of imagebin.ca is working on has this project too http://voicebin.ca/	21:49
nuba	yeah I was already on my way to do that	21:50
nuba	but testing them first	21:50
nuba	all work great http://imagebin.org/14033 http://imagebin.ca/view/dk1Ua4ml.html http://www.imagebin.eu/pics/3c168b1f724c7fa24bb1a10bbb4fd874.jpg	21:53
-!- rizen is now known as rizenisaway		22:00
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5459 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (10 files in 2 dirs): per colin's request design docs are included in the repo	22:03
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: IRC - Edited on 2/15/2008 1:55 pm by nuba http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/irc	22:11
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: Getting Started With Development - Edited on 2/14/2008 7:00 am by knowmad http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/getting-started-with-development	22:11
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: Override Core Modules - Created on 2/14/2008 7:00 am by knowmad http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/override-core-modules	22:11
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nuba	i disabled the the wiki watch feature yesterday by accident when adding the meta generator info to the bot	22:12
nuba	all up now	22:12
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wgGuest31	hello	22:44
wgGuest31	i have serious problem with spectre	22:46
wgGuest31	when i start it i have the next error 'jsonToObj' will be obsoleted. Please use 'from_json' instead. at /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8/Config/JSON.pm line 134	22:46
wgGuest31	i have 7.4.21 installed	22:47
wgGuest31	json again	22:47
wgGuest31	in that server i had installed json 2.6 and config::json 1.1.4	22:49
wgGuest31	comparing with another server in the same version i noticed that the json version is 1.0 and the config::json is 1.1.1	22:51
wgGuest31	and tried to install both old versions manually but the problem continues?	22:51
wgGuest31	what do you suggest me, upgrading to 7.3.24 would be the solution, or what else can i do?	22:53
@rizenisaway	upgrading to the latest 7.4.x version is your best bet	22:57
wgGuest31	ok	22:57
wgGuest31	i am going to do	22:57
wgGuest31	thanks again	22:58
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+perlDreamer	rizenisaway: if it's a big pain, then just leave the docs as opendoc. I don't think you can build tables in POD.	23:41
-!- rizenisaway is now known as rizen		23:45
@rizen	too late	23:45
+perlDreamer	Got time for some tax talk?	23:46
nuba	you could keep the extracted open office file in svn	23:46
nuba	its xml	23:46
nuba	actually a bunch of xmls	23:46
nuba	and stuff	23:46
nuba	but then you can check out a version, compress, and open on OO	23:47
+perlDreamer	I'm thinking that the value combination of field and value needs to be unique.	23:47
+perlDreamer	so that you can't have state=WI more than once	23:47
@rizen	true	23:47
@rizen	just to protect people from themselves?	23:47
@rizen	actually i want to talk to you about that too	23:48
+perlDreamer	okay	23:48
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5460 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Cron.pm: additional health check	23:48
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5461 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Cron.pm: merging changes from 7.5 branch	23:48
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5462 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/ (11 files): easy docs	23:48
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5463 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/ (8 files): removing generated images	23:48
@rizen	i was considering that you should be able to do a match against city+state = tax rate	23:48
@rizen	that way you wouldn't have to type in all the zip codes for a city	23:49
@rizen	but i couldn't figure out a way to make that work nicely for the user	23:49
@rizen	cuz in many countries it would be city + country	23:49
@rizen	rather than city + state	23:49
+perlDreamer	or city + county	23:50
@rizen	true	23:50
@rizen	maybe we better just leave it with zip codes	23:50
@rizen	more precise	23:50
+perlDreamer	that brings up my other idea	23:50
@rizen	ok	23:50
--- Day changed Sat Feb 16 2008
+perlDreamer	if we just use zip codes will that work internationally?	00:07
@rizen	yes, all countries have post codes	00:07
@rizen	at least all countries i've shipped to, which is more than 80 of them	00:08
+perlDreamer	then we reduce the table schema just to taxId, zipCode and taxRate	00:08
@rizen	no	00:08
@rizen	cuz there are taxes you might apply per zip code	00:08
@rizen	but there might also be state tax	00:08
@rizen	and there might also be country tax	00:09
@rizen	so if you put in a state tax of 5.0	00:09
@rizen	and a particular county has a tax rate of 0.5	00:09
@rizen	then you just add in the post codes for that county at 0.5	00:09
@rizen	and together it makes 5.5	00:09
@rizen	get it?	00:09
+perlDreamer	yup	00:09
@rizen	that's why i designed it the way i did	00:09
@rizen	cuz most of the time you can get away with just applying a tax rate for a country or state	00:10
@rizen	rather than individual zip codes	00:10
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5464 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/ (cart.pod commerce.pod): seperated the cart doc out on it's own	00:19
@rizen	webguidev hasn't had so much traffic since the late 6.x days	00:24
+perlDreamer	Nope :)	00:25
+perlDreamer	I'm about to do a commit. Please let me know if I've got the right idea for getItems	00:25
@rizen	hopefully us discussing stuff out there will inspire some others to help us	00:25
+perlDreamer	so minor questions here, major stuff out there, or do you want as much traffic as possible?	00:26
@rizen	we can chat back and forth on here, as it's certainly quicker	00:27
@rizen	but the more stuff we put out on the dev mailing list the more likely people will be to join us	00:27
@rizen	cuz there aren't that many people in here	00:28
@rizen	compared to the dev mailing list subscribers	00:28
@rizen	not to mention the traffic to the web site that isn't subscribed at all	00:28
+perlDreamer	but you can track that via page views	00:28
@rizen	we had over 1 million page views last month	00:28
@rizen	the largest month in our history	00:28
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5465 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (3 files in 3 dirs):	00:32
CIA-40	WebGUI: Add the tax table.	00:32
CIA-40	WebGUI: Add the getItems method, for accessing the entire tax table.	00:32
@rizen	yup, that looks right pd	00:37
@rizen	so are you doing development along side testing?	00:37
+perlDreamer	one method at a time	00:38
+perlDreamer	test first, then write the method	00:38
@rizen	i c	00:38
@rizen	is that how tdd is supposed to work?	00:38
@rizen	i thought you were supposed to write all your tests first	00:38
+perlDreamer	I think that's one style of doing it	00:39
+perlDreamer	I was reading the wikipedia article on it	00:39
+perlDreamer	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test_driven_development	00:39
+perlDreamer	What I'm doing is probably closer to the refactoring flow	00:40
@rizen	hmmm	00:40
@rizen	well that's cool	00:40
@rizen	unfortunately i can't do that	00:40
@rizen	the cart relies on the Sku object	00:40
@rizen	and the Product object	00:41
@rizen	to succeed	00:41
@rizen	maybe i should have started there	00:41
+perlDreamer	Yeah	00:41
@rizen	but the cart is my baby	00:41
@rizen	it's the one i spent the most time on	00:41
@rizen	=)	00:41
+perlDreamer	It's all yours, I won't touch it	00:42
@rizen	that's not what i mean	00:42
@rizen	just i'm proud of how it's designed	00:42
@rizen	i think the process flow is so much more elegant than the current one	00:43
+perlDreamer	Are rates stored as multipliers, or as percentages? 5% vs 0.05	00:45
@rizen	don't care	00:45
@rizen	just be consistent	00:46
@rizen	all of that info is handled inside the tax object	00:46
@rizen	so it doesn't matter what you do	00:46
+perlDreamer	Okay, I'll document it as percentage in the doc and the POD.	00:46
+perlDreamer	Humph, it says it right there.	00:47
+perlDreamer	"A percentage of the sale price to tax."	00:47
* perlDreamer should be scolded for not reading the spec		00:47
@rizen	Yeah, but the spec is only a guideline	01:01
@rizen	don't think it's written in stone	01:02
+perlDreamer	Okay.	01:02
+perlDreamer	What's the sales tax in Wisconsin like?	01:09
@preaction	0.05 in most places	01:09
@preaction	i think madison has an additional 0.005 for the city	01:10
@rizen	madison is a good example	01:10
@rizen	5% for state	01:10
@rizen	0.5% county (dane)	01:10
@rizen	0.05% city (madison)	01:10
@rizen	do you want some madison zipcodes to test with?	01:11
+perlDreamer	sure!	01:11
@rizen	53701 - 53719	01:11
@rizen	53703 is jt's zip	01:11
@rizen	53715 is plain black's zip	01:11
+perlDreamer	we'll tax him more!	01:11
+perlDreamer	then he can throw some tea in the lakes and declare independence from Dane county and make his own county	01:12
@rizen	i'm not activist enough to do that	01:13
nuba	RFE: make 53715 expose an easter egg in the commerce system	01:14
+perlDreamer	let me guess, there's no 53715?	01:15
+perlDreamer	oh, no	01:15
+perlDreamer	nm	01:15
+perlDreamer	I need a break	01:15
@preaction	make it change the cart style to black background, white and light-blue text	01:15
nuba	yes there is http://www.plainblack.com/contact_us	01:16
-!- rizen is now known as rizenhasadate		01:18
+perlDreamer	ALL RIGHT!	01:18
nuba	have fun	01:19
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5466 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (3 files in 2 dirs): started cart tests, realizing need to build sku first	01:21
+perlDreamer	Only 88 commits to 5555	01:28
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5467 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (3 files in 3 dirs):	01:43
CIA-40	WebGUI: Fix a bug in the upgrade script, with a default applied to the wrong column.	01:43
CIA-40	WebGUI: Built the add method, and tested it, too.	01:43
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CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5468 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Tax.pm t/Shop/Tax.t): Tax: add the delete method, with tests	08:00
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CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5469 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Tax.pm t/Shop/Tax.t):	09:02
CIA-40	WebGUI: Add input validation for the add method, and test it.	09:02
CIA-40	WebGUI: Now it's time for the import and export methods.	09:02
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5469 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Tax.pm t/Shop/Tax.t):	09:18
CIA-40	WebGUI: Add input validation for the add method, and test it.	09:18
CIA-40	WebGUI: Now it's time for the import and export methods.	09:18
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BartJol	Hi Khenn, already awake on satrurday?	15:41
@khenn	yeah, exercising =) I'll be working a bit later	15:51
BartJol	mm, your even strager than I thought	15:52
BartJol	darn, my english is not very good on saturdays	15:53
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@apeiron	Greetings from Frozen Perl 2008!	16:47
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CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5470 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/sku.pod: separating sku docs from main commerce docs	18:22
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5471 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/commerce.pod: separating sku from main	18:22
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5472 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/sku.pod: formatting problem	18:22
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CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5473 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Tax.pm t/Shop/Tax.t):	19:47
CIA-40	WebGUI: Added the export method.	19:47
CIA-40	WebGUI: Basic tests for the export method. Need to check the CSV file	19:47
CIA-40	WebGUI: to make sure it's created correctly.	19:47
diakopter	help, anyone? Spectre did not start successfully. Can't locate object method "autoconv" via package "JSON" at /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/JSON.pm line 136.	19:52
BartJol	have you perfomed an update?	19:55
nuba	whoa JSON is biting me too! on a HEAD setup, fresh install, w/ JSON and Config::JSON updated, I'm getting this error:	20:07
nuba	malformed JSON string, neither array, object, number, string or atom, at character offset 0 ["(end of string)"] at /data/wre/prereqs/perl/lib/site_perl/5.8.8/JSON.pm line 154.	20:07
nuba	any ideas?	20:10
BartJol	well, something to do with json versions	20:10
BartJol	depends on the wre/webgui version you're using whether you have to up or doengrade json	20:10
nuba	im using HEAD, meta generator says WebGUI 7.5.3	20:11
nuba	but on WRE 0.7.x	20:11
BartJol	you can look on	20:12
BartJol	http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/spectre-broken-due-to-json/6	20:12
nuba	maybe the guilt of not updating the WRE to 0.8.1 is coming back to haunt me ;)	20:12
BartJol	could very well be	20:12
nuba	earlier today I was all too happly checking out wg_reset from tools, only to find out it wont work in this WRE	20:13
nuba	BartJol: read it all, thx. what I have here is latest WebGUI, latest JSON and Config::JSON, vintage WRE	20:14
BartJol	mmm	20:15
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nuba	im not fretting, i'll be migrating my dev environment to another machien this monday	20:17
cap10morgan	For 7.4.24, should I use Config::JSON 1.1.2 or is 1.1.4 OK?	20:17
BartJol	i don't know exactly what's happening, already tried wiki or forum, there are more json problems, maybe there is something on it	20:18
nuba	it would be great if someone familiar with the JSON version issues could produce a wiki page	20:18
nuba	and add a link to it to the topic	20:18
BartJol	it would	20:19
nuba	theres a stream of people coming here with JSON issues and questions about versions and all that	20:19
nuba	and after learning they have to install another version, then they have to learn how to do that with cpan	20:21
cap10morgan	nuba: yeah, cpan claims 1.1.1 is up to date. :)	20:21
BartJol	fortunately, I'm not that man	20:22
nuba	see. its confusing.	20:22
* cap10morgan is doing a manual install of Config::JSON 1.1.2		20:24
diakopter	nuba: where did you get wg_reset	20:33
diakopter	nuba: nm	20:34
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cap10morgan	how do you run WebGUI's perl test suite?	20:54
@apeiron	nuba,	21:04
@apeiron	perlbot, life with cpan	21:04
perlbot	Information pertaining to the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN) can be found at http://sial.org/howto/perl/life-with-cpan/	21:04
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GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: spell checker - Created on 2/16/2008 12:57 pm by elnino http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/spell-checker	21:08
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: spell checker - Edited on 2/16/2008 1:06 pm by elnino http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/spell-checker	21:17
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: spell checker - Edited on 2/16/2008 1:10 pm by elnino http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/spell-checker	21:20
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: spell checker - Edited on 2/16/2008 1:24 pm by elnino http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/spell-checker	21:34
nuba	apeiron: i'm using CPAN since 2000, but thx anyway	22:05
@preaction	cap10morgan, cd /data/WebGUI/t; WEBGUI_CONFIG=/data/WebGUI/etc/yourconfig.conf prove -r	22:06
cap10morgan	preaction: cool, thanks. i found the wiki page also (dev's guide to testing webgui), which was very helpful.	22:06
nuba	apeiron: i was saying about these people that come here lost re: the JSON ongoing issue	22:07
nuba	glad to see GooeyOfSteel working	22:07
@preaction	yeah	22:07
@apeiron	nuba, I mean you could give people that link. )	22:15
@apeiron	er, :)	22:15
nuba	well im not familiar with what combinations of versions (JSON, Config::JSON, WebGUI, WRE) are borken or not	22:17
nuba	someone, possibly from plainblack, will be more suited to write a wiki article on that than me	22:17
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nuba	heh is this you, rizen ? http://www.bash.org/?4488	23:39
--- Day changed Sun Feb 17 2008
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elnino	Hi. I did an upgrade to 7.4.24 and my /home doesn't work anymore.	00:15
elnino	I went into settings and the hover help is no longer there.	00:16
elnino	Does this all seemm right to you? I didn't see anything about this in the gotch file.	00:16
elnino	the maintainace page is still up after restarting apache twice and starting spectre	00:16
elnino	there were no errors during the upgrade.pl process. Should I revert? or does this all seem right?	00:17
elnino	I upgraded from 7.3.22 to 7.4.24	00:18
elnino	I need close this connection, but I will be back on shortly	00:40
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elnino	ok. the maintenance page finally went away. It must have been cached in the browser, because I had already tried caching it in webgui.	00:55
elnino	Still wondering about the hoverhelp though. Are they all supposed to be "spelled out" on the edit page? Or am I missing javascript files somewhere?	00:56
elnino	spectre icons are missing in the admin menu. Where may I find them?	01:19
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wld	help	02:49
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@preaction	uhm... que?	03:11
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Radix__	help?	03:16
maritimus	That was a mistype Radix	03:18
Radix__	good to hear	03:21
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diakopter	wre 0.8.1, webgui svn latest, JSON errors. anyone have a suggestion?	03:55
@rizen	get the latest versions of sbin and lib out of wrebuild	03:59
@rizen	they are fixed for the new json	04:00
@rizen	wrebuild in svn	04:00
diakopter	rizen: thanks! :)	04:01
diakopter	rizen: do I also need a new Config::JSON ?	05:16
@rizen	yup	05:16
diakopter	darn out-of-date cpan mirrors.	05:17
diakopter	anyone know of a good http one?	05:17
diakopter	trying http://mirrors.kernel.org/cpan/	05:18
@rizen	just go to search.cpan.org and download	05:26
diakopter	rizen: ended up doing that.	05:29
diakopter	Image/ExifTool.pm and Archive/Any.pm missing from the wre	05:29
diakopter	0.8.1 that is. i assume it's in the svn edition	05:30
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+perlDreamer	Phew	06:48
+perlDreamer	Just got done with some language work	06:48
+perlDreamer	It's hard managing a burgeoning 8 year old Spanish translator	06:48
+perlDreamer	nuba, please forgive me for anything too coarse or wrong	06:48
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+perlDreamer	jdferm, if you have questions, just ask them	07:18
+perlDreamer	It's really slow tonight	07:18
+perlDreamer	and you don't have to ask permission to ask	07:18
+perlDreamer	perlbot: ask	07:18
perlbot	Don't ask to ask, just ask.	07:18
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CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5474 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/t/Shop/Tax.t: check the CSV output made by export	07:38
jdferm	Thanks...	07:43
jdferm	I was just dropping in to lurk a bit.	07:43
jdferm	I've gotten about to my wits end with CMS's. I started with Drupal & realized I would need to know CSS to really get anything looking right.	07:44
jdferm	So I went to Joomla!, and during the "migration" to a new version it thrashed the entire website.	07:44
jdferm	Then I tried typo3, and found it confusing as heck.	07:45
jdferm	So now I'm checking out the demo version of webgui & figured I'd lurk here to see what people were saying :D	07:45
@preaction	i just finished compiling the WRE for OpenBSD 4.2-RELEASE. worked rather nicely	07:51
@preaction	GooeyOfSteel, help?	07:58
@preaction	humm... not implemented yet	07:59
@preaction	there's a very nice article on "How to give WebGUI your own style" on http://wiki.webgui.org	07:59
@preaction	plus some nice contributed theme packages in the Get Add Ons section	07:59
jdferm	nice. thanks for the heads up	08:00
@preaction	WebGUI has some learning curve, but for the most part it's pretty straightforward to get what you want	08:01
@preaction	just need to know about Style templates (which that article explains) and Asset templates (which are the individual applications/content templates)	08:01
@preaction	for the most part, you shouldn't need to worry about the Asset templates	08:02
@preaction	so it's really just a matter of putting <head><tmpl_var head.tags></head><body><tmpl_var body.content></body>	08:02
jdferm	and miracle of miracles it took me all of 3 minutes to find documentation on how to add a template	08:03
jdferm	I spent over an hour trying to find info like that for typo3 tonight.	08:04
@preaction	nice	08:04
jdferm	then I finally gave up & started looking for a new CMS :D	08:04
@preaction	good to hear that it can be found. the community's been working hard trying to get better docs out there	08:04
jdferm	Looks like the wiki has great info	08:04
@preaction	in addition to the old Help system (used to be on-line help, but we removed it to shave about 15M off resident memory), there's all the stuff that people have added	08:05
@preaction	for some reason i got it into my head to build a dedicated regression test box using OpenBSD...	08:06
@preaction	and it's been going surprisingly smooth	08:06
jdferm	wow. Heck of a way to spend a saturday night ;)	08:06
@preaction	i would suggest using the WRE to install WebGUI's prerequisites. it has great tools for managing WebGUI as well.	08:06
@preaction	it's just easier than trying to manage the prereqs yourself	08:07
@preaction	something that Perl programs tend to have difficulty with	08:07
jdferm	I'll talk with the SA of the box that I'll be installing this on. He shouldn't have a problem with it.	08:07
@preaction	yeah, that's what I said the first time. couple hours to get the prereqs installed and a webgui site created. used the WRE and i did it in 15 minutes	08:08
@preaction	the docs work, but i kept second-guessing them and trying to do things the way i thought my distro wanted them done	08:09
@preaction	plus it was an ubuntu system, so it's got the weird httpd.conf	08:09
jdferm	ahh the system I'll be installing on is ubuntu	08:13
@preaction	bonne chance. it shouldn't be exceedingly hard except for getting all the packages from APT	08:15
jdferm	is webgui available via apt-get?	08:15
@preaction	but still, the WRE is easier, and there's probably a pre-built for your version (i know there's a Dapper out there)	08:15
@preaction	not yet, no	08:15
jdferm	kk	08:15
@preaction	it's proposed for the next Debian, so it might make it to ubuntu eventually	08:16
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GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: How to Build the WRE on OpenBSD - Created on 2/17/2008 12:17 pm by DBell http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/how-to-build-the-wre-on-openbsd	20:28
@preaction	wow, GooeyOfSteel is quick on the uptake	20:28
@preaction	but for one slight problem, it used my username, not my alias	20:28
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GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: How to Build the WRE on OpenBSD - Edited on 2/17/2008 1:14 pm by DBell http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/how-to-build-the-wre-on-openbsd	21:25
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@preaction	apeiron, when you compiled the WRE for FreeBSD, did you need to do anything to the modproxy or modperl Listen directives?	22:46
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: WRE Installation - Edited on 2/17/2008 2:53 pm by DBell http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/wre-installation	23:04
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@preaction	there is so much fun we could have with integrated statistics...	00:40
@preaction	plus we'd get rid of awstats, since it's a beast and sucks	00:40
@preaction	passive stats from processing Apache logs, plus active stats with JS AJAX stuff, or the google analytics-type stuff (iframe or img that gets a CGI page)	00:41
@apeiron	preaction, I don't believe so, no, nothing that wasn't done already.	00:44
@preaction	humph...	00:44
@preaction	i couldn't get apache to translate IPv4 requests to IPv6 addresses, so it wouldn't respond to 127.0.0.1	00:45
@preaction	i added it to the wiki page and the readme.txt, so hopefully people will figure it out	00:45
@preaction	don't think too many people who use OpenBSD also use WebGUI	00:45
@preaction	its running our new dedicated smoke test box though	00:46
@apeiron	I can't imagine why you'd go with Open rather than Free myself, but /me shrugs.	00:46
@preaction	once i get the program working	00:46
@apeiron	For WebGUI at least.	00:46
@preaction	i've got a specific set of conditions that must be met for me to run OpenBSD for something, including "Doesn't need to co-exist with windows computers" and "for the fun of it" ;-)	00:47
@apeiron	A VM would work well for that, heh.	00:47
@preaction	oh, "never holds sensitive data that may need recovery", but that's BSD in general now	00:47
@preaction	due to my efforts to mount UFS2 under Linux... not fun	00:47
@apeiron	shrug. I've had UFS's crash before and have recovered stuff.	00:48
@preaction	it's not the recovery so much as i needed to shuffle stuff around to free up a hard drive	00:48
@preaction	the hard drive that was booting freebsd	00:48
@preaction	i still need to find a cluster filesystem that runs on something other than Solaris	00:49
@apeiron	Does ZFS count?	00:49
@preaction	zfs clusters over a network?	00:52
@preaction	sun has lustre, which is their cluster FS. and i think they have a linux driver for it, but not sure about its stability	00:52
@apeiron	Oh, wow, that's probably not what ZFS is for. :)	00:53
@rizen	apeiron: how was frozen perl?	00:53
@apeiron	rizen, Awesome. Quite educational.	00:53
@rizen	r u back home now?	00:53
@apeiron	Indeed.	00:53
@preaction	i know the samba group is working on a cluster file system too, but i don't know their status either	00:53
@rizen	what was the best talk..and what was it about?	00:53
@apeiron	Hmm. I think I enjoyed theone about Parrot the most because that was the subject about which I was most curious.	00:54
@rizen	care to comment on the state of parrot?	00:54
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@apeiron	ha. I'm not one to make that kind of statement. I'd probably be wrong.	00:55
@apeiron	The talk wasn't so much about the state of parrot so much as the internals.	00:55
@apeiron	hmm. Come to think of it I think there was a perl.com article on that recently. Either that or state of perl6 (which is dependent upon Parrot).	00:58
@rizen	yeah i read that stuff	00:59
@rizen	just haven't seen it hands on	00:59
@rizen	don't have time to experiment much these days	00:59
@rizen	too busy running a company	00:59
@rizen	=)	00:59
@apeiron	I think the basic position about its state is that they're... recovering, as it were, from the political issues, but still making progress.	00:59
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@apeiron	Dan Sidhe I think it was made at least one blog post detailing the political stuff, his clashes with Leo, etc.	01:00
@rizen	are you guys old enough to remember knight rider?	01:03
@rizen	the new series premiers tonight	01:04
@preaction	nobody can beat The Hoff...	01:05
@preaction	don't they have Matt Damon or someone in his place?	01:05
@rizen	the hoff is in it	01:05
@rizen	i think the hoff takes on miles role in this one	01:05
@rizen	the "mentor" or whatever	01:05
@rizen	he still plays michael knight...just hands the reigns of driving off to some other dude	01:06
@preaction	no, Kilmer is KITT, that's who i was thinking of	01:06
@apeiron	I'm barely old enough to remember it. Never watched it.	01:07
@preaction	tonight you say? might have to try it out	01:07
@rizen	the new car is amazing looking	01:07
@rizen	it's on nbc	01:07
@rizen	a 2 hour movie	01:07
@rizen	to kick it off	01:07
@rizen	the other thing is that discovery channel has this real life jurrasic park kind of thing on	01:08
@rizen	doing something with reconstituting dino dna	01:08
CIA-40	WebGUI: doug * r5475 /wrebuild/ (build.sh readme.txt): Added OpenBSD to the list of build possibilities	01:13
@preaction	this is the weirdest thing... i can run webgui. i'm sitting here playing with the WebGUI site, but running the tests gives me errors	01:16
@apeiron	On OpenBSD?	01:17
@preaction	http://webgui.pastebin.com/d469bd6fb	01:17
@preaction	yes	01:17
@apeiron	hmm.	01:19
@apeiron	And that's the first error?	01:19
@preaction	yes	01:20
@preaction	because it can't load WebGUI::Session, everything else breaks	01:20
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@apeiron	But obviously you're running the site fine.	01:22
@apeiron	So logically the first step, to me at least, seems to point to investigating how the test suite loads the APR bits, yes?	01:22
@preaction	Apache2::Request needs it.	01:25
@preaction	and typing 'reset' into my terminal gives the same error for some reason	01:27
@apeiron	As the tests failing? oO	01:27
@preaction	just the undefined symbol error	01:35
@apeiron	weird.	01:35
@apeiron	And there isn't a "reset" command installed as part of WebGUI right?	01:37
@preaction	not that i'm aware of	01:58
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@preaction	it seems that libapr knows where it is, but libaprutil doesn't	02:05
@apeiron	hmm. Does Open still ship with Apache? If so, is it possible at all that it's clashing with that Apache?	02:14
@preaction	it ships with apache 1.3	02:15
@preaction	i don't think apache 1.3 had APR	02:16
@apeiron	So fairly unlikely that it's causing an issue then.	02:16
@preaction	it seems like libapr-0.so.9.16 isn't getting loaded when I 'use Apache2::Request'	02:19
@preaction	when i change LD_PRELOAD=/data/wre/prereqs/lib/libapr-0.so.9.16, i get a new error. i think i have to preload all the libraries	02:26
@apeiron	Hmm, perhaps a difference in the way OpenBSD's ld.so works?	02:27
@apeiron	I wouldn't think it'd be so different from FreeBSD, but maybe it needs to be to be portable?	02:27
@preaction	when i put both libapr and libaprutil into LD_PRELOAD it works	02:28
@preaction	i swear. why is THIS problem easier to diagnose than an HTTP POST with a Redirect response POSTing again automatically...	02:34
@apeiron	Possibly because you get loud failures with reasons explaining the failures?	02:37
@preaction	must be	02:38
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@preaction	well, the post problem was obvious too, the second request had variables it shouldn't have	02:39
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5476 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/commerce.pod:	03:03
CIA-40	WebGUI: Subs named import do special things in perl. Renaming	03:03
CIA-40	WebGUI: import and export to importTaxData and exportTaxData,	03:03
CIA-40	WebGUI: respectively.	03:03
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perlmonkey2	I haven't had time to program much on wg (polishing the work app for viewing by the people who pay our grant), but I'm trying really hard to extrapolate a automated way of doing 2.0 stuff like wg works now. With param types/forms being automagically handled.	04:58
perlmonkey2	No need for templates, at least in the asset edit/configure pages.	04:58
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@Haarg	found a way to have mod_proxy only use mod_perl for uploads in they aren't world readable	05:48
+perlDreamer	You're a beastie!	05:49
+perlDreamer	How does it work?	05:49
@Haarg	i can't think of any weaknesses at this point	05:49
@Haarg	using rewrite rules to detect the presence of a .wgaccess file	05:49
@Haarg	if it doesn't exist, it assumes it is world readable	05:49
@Haarg	then storage needs to be modified to not write the .wgaccess file for world readable locations	05:50
@Haarg	but that's a small change	05:50
* apeiron saw "you're a beastie" and thought it was a BSD discussion...		05:50
+perlDreamer	Just don't forget to modify the tests to account for that.	05:51
@Haarg	doesn't look like any tests look for wgaccess at this point	05:52
@preaction	so before i release this new dedicated test box to the world, i should probably figure out why these tests fail on OpenBSD but not CentOS	05:52
+perlDreamer	Yup.	05:52
+perlDreamer	Or MacOSX	05:52
+perlDreamer	or Ubuntu	05:52
@preaction	looks like you need to be root to run the tests	06:22
+perlDreamer	that's not good	06:25
+perlDreamer	I wondery why	06:25
@preaction	FileCache can't chmod / chown the /tmp/WebGUICache/* folder	06:26
@preaction	s	06:26
@preaction	and then prove seems to go all wonky	06:26
@apeiron	What's the Unix file permissions on /tmp?	06:34
+perlDreamer	777?	06:34
@apeiron	Not good enough.	06:35
@apeiron	Needs to be sticky.	06:35
+perlDreamer	yeah, I think that's actually a wG bug	06:35
@apeiron	well	06:35
@apeiron	/tmp itself has always needed to be sticky.	06:35
+perlDreamer	we tell people to set it up to be writable by the httpd user	06:35
+perlDreamer	but then spectre and the updated come along and muck things up	06:35
+perlDreamer	since they run as root	06:36
@apeiron	All the systems I've run across have had a /tmp set up properly.	06:36
@apeiron	Although I admit I haven't mucked with OpenBSD in several years, and certainly not now that they're into the 4.x releases.	06:36
+perlDreamer	everything that touches uploads and the fileCache needs to be done as the wG user.	06:36
+perlDreamer	whoever it is	06:36
+perlDreamer	So I'm writing the tests for importing tax data from a CSV file	06:39
+perlDreamer	and I'm pretty sure that I should test for bad file contents	06:39
+perlDreamer	should that be dynamically created for each test, or a directory full of ugly looking CSV files?	06:39
@preaction	the import function can't take a string?	06:40
@rizen	Spectre deoesn't need to run as root, but even if it does, that shouldn't cause any problems cuz spectre doesn't interact with the FS	06:41
@rizen	i think the test box should run haiku	06:42
@preaction	ooh BeOS	06:42
+perlDreamer	ImportTaxData takes a file path to a CSV file	06:42
+perlDreamer	a string would be easier	06:43
+perlDreamer	I guess I could decompose it	06:43
+perlDreamer	WGBP advises line based I/O, rather than slurping.	06:43
+perlDreamer	but the dataset is small	06:43
@rizen	the dataset could be pretty big	06:44
+perlDreamer	1000 lines?	06:44
@rizen	if there were specific tax data worldwide	06:44
@rizen	no...think one entry for every postal code world wide	06:44
+perlDreamer	oh	06:44
+perlDreamer	5 digits	06:44
@rizen	9 digits in the us	06:44
@preaction	or more	06:45
+perlDreamer	okay, line based it is	06:45
@rizen	six digits in canada	06:45
+Radix-wrk	4 digits in australia	06:45
+perlDreamer	I'll make a subdirectory for it in the test collateral area	06:45
+perlDreamer	(God bless the Australians)	06:45
@rizen	and canada is AlphaNumeric digits...so make sure it accepts alphanum	06:46
+perlDreamer	So the problem child is really the updater, being run as root?	06:46
+Radix-wrk	UK is six digits alpha too	06:46
@apeiron	Ten in the US if you want the - between the 5 and the 4	06:46
+perlDreamer	6?	06:46
+perlDreamer	oh, UK	06:46
+perlDreamer	It's getting late, and I am extra cranky today	06:47
+perlDreamer	Trying to learn a new keyboard layout	06:47
+Radix-wrk	why?	06:47
+perlDreamer	The Kuskie family made some small contributions to wG i18n this weekend	06:47
+Radix-wrk	Ahh.. spanish I think you said?	06:47
+perlDreamer	and it's easier to type spanish using the US International keyboard	06:47
* rizen is thinking about taking a pee but it's so cold outside		06:47
+perlDreamer	but for some reason, it is ignoring my choice of meta key	06:48
+Radix-wrk	don't pee on the electric fence!	06:48
+perlDreamer	and forcing me to type quote-space to get a literal quote	06:48
+Radix-wrk	don't eat the yellow snow!	06:48
+perlDreamer	do not _make_ the yellow snow	06:48
@rizen	i have to make the yellow snow	06:48
@rizen	no water in my house	06:48
+perlDreamer	What happened?	06:48
+Radix-wrk	no water?	06:48
@rizen	busted water line today	06:48
+Radix-wrk	yikes	06:49
@rizen	it was disaster weekend at my house	06:49
+perlDreamer	Did it freeze from the cold?	06:49
@rizen	on saturday i got back my computer (gaming rig) from the shop after they had it 6 weeks, and it still doesn't work	06:49
+Radix-wrk	heh.. disaster weekend here for me.. no broken water line, but lost 700GB of data thanks to an overeager NAS!	06:49
@preaction	rizen, dear jesus... how long has that thing been out of commission now?	06:49
@rizen	today my garage almost flooded, so i went out and bought a pump and pumped it out	06:50
+perlDreamer	Oh, just drive to the office and use their bathroom	06:50
@rizen	right after i finished pumping out the garage area the water line broke and flooded my kitchen	06:50
@rizen	luckily i was home so i caught it before it got too bad	06:51
@rizen	but sarah was absolutely drenched with freezing water	06:51
+perlDreamer	wife-cicle	06:51
@rizen	indeed	06:51
+perlDreamer	does it get that cold in your house that the pipes freeze and burst?	06:51
@rizen	it didn't freeze from the cold...somehow the water created a pressure bubble in the copper pipe	06:51
+perlDreamer	PEX	06:52
@rizen	no, it was an insulated pipe, and it was inside the house, and it was 65 in here when it blew	06:52
+perlDreamer	PEX is supposed to be burst proof because it will expand under high pressure	06:52
+perlDreamer	anyway, I'm getting off topic	06:53
@rizen	preaction: it's been out for 8 weeks now...this time. but overall its been out of commission for 5 of the 13 months i've owned it	06:54
@rizen	total lemon	06:54
@preaction	i'd say	06:54
+perlDreamer	will you home insurance cover it all?	06:55
+perlDreamer	"yes I want to overwrite it. The old stuff is garbled crap to quote my friend JT" --Kathy	06:57
+perlDreamer	You've created a meme.	06:57
+perlDreamer	Next, it will show up on t-shirts at ThinkGeek, then Wikipedia	06:57
@rizen	there's no real damage to our house...just need to fix a pipe	06:59
@rizen	plumber is coming tomorrow	06:59
@rizen	if it were pvc i'd fix it, but since it's copper i don't want to mess with it	06:59
@rizen	i	07:00
+perlDreamer	PEX is good stuff. Cheaper per foot than copper or PVC, cheaper to install. more robust.	07:00
@rizen	i'm pretty good at soldiering, but not good enough to be sure	07:00
@rizen	PEX is irrelevant, this is copper	07:00
+perlDreamer	I'm going to replumb my house with it	07:00
@rizen	what is kathy referring to in that comment?	07:00
+perlDreamer	A GnuCash report. XML == Garbled Crap	07:01
@rizen	your whole house? is it in need of being replumbed?	07:01
+perlDreamer	Yes and no	07:01
+perlDreamer	We're moving the location of sinks, washer and dryer and hot water heater.	07:01
@preaction	sounds fun	07:01
+perlDreamer	So being frost proof and easily hackable is a good thing to do.	07:01
+perlDreamer	For practice, I'm rewiring the whole house	07:02
+perlDreamer	PEX does not use glue or solder. It is all pressure fittings	07:02
@preaction	for practice?	07:02
+perlDreamer	Well, the wiring in the attic	07:03
+perlDreamer	all the sheathing is breaking down and rotting out	07:03
+perlDreamer	So I have been pulling new wires to replace them	07:03
+perlDreamer	To finish it out, we will put in a new circuit breaker box and move it out of the living	07:03
+perlDreamer	room into the new garage that we had built last summer	07:03
@rizen	i've personally wired 3 different houses top to bottom. it's not hard when the building is gutted or going up, but it's a total pain once the drywall is up	07:04
+perlDreamer	yeah	07:04
@preaction	i've got plaster / lathe. i do not envy having to rewire this place	07:04
+perlDreamer	Just buy a fishtape, and check into "new-work" boxes.	07:04
@rizen	plaster/lathe is usually easier because they didn't insulate those old houses as much	07:05
+perlDreamer	yeah, stay on inside walls	07:05
+perlDreamer	Also, my wife is a skilled drywall patcher nowadays	07:05
@preaction	... if i open up the external walls and find shit for insulation i'm going to be extremely ticked off... and there's going to be a huge project...	07:05
+perlDreamer	how old is your house?	07:06
@preaction	interior walls, they insulate those nowadays?	07:06
@rizen	drywall isn't hard...if you've got a lot of wiring/plumbing to do it may just be easier to drop the old walls and do it from scratch	07:06
@preaction	i'm guessing about 80 years, could be more	07:06
+perlDreamer	oy	07:06
@preaction	best-guess the city has is 80 years	07:06
+perlDreamer	No insulation in there at all, likely	07:06
@preaction	er.. +50 years	07:06
@preaction	that might explain the $250+ heating bill...	07:06
+perlDreamer	or living in Wisconsin	07:07
@preaction	... you might be right. there might be 0 insulation in the walls...	07:09
@preaction	well, that solves the problem of how to repair the walls after i rewire	07:09
@rizen	if it was built before 1950 you're lucky if there is anything more than newspaper in the walls	07:10
@preaction	and the parents keep telling me "Don't spend too much money fixing the place up..."	07:10
@rizen	some of the old houses i've remodeled i found no insulation, but found license plates, old clothes, newspaper, racy magazines, and tools	07:11
@preaction	nice	07:11
@rizen	as far as spending money..it depends upon what you want out of the place...if you're going to live there, then make it as nice as you want	07:12
+perlDreamer	y'all need to winter in Hillsboro	07:12
@rizen	if you want to turn it into a rental or sell it, then don't stick too much into it	07:12
+perlDreamer	11 degrees for a high	07:12
+perlDreamer	sheesh	07:12
@preaction	i guess i am planning to live here at least 5 years, so while i'm here i may as well fix as much as possible	07:17
@preaction	this might be the best house that i end up owning (until i buy a single-family)	07:17
@preaction	i mean. doesn't adding insulation, new wiring, new plumbing, add to the value of the house?	07:19
+perlDreamer	yes, but it might not return 1:1	07:20
@rizen	absolutely..but depending on market conditions, the location of your house, and other factors...	07:20
@preaction	ah	07:20
@preaction	it's a gamble	07:20
@rizen	honestly, when flipping the thing that adds value to the house is bathrooms, kitchens, and bedroom count	07:20
+perlDreamer	No, a realtor could tell you how much it will increase the cost of your house	07:20
+perlDreamer	or a contractor	07:21
@preaction	one of the contractors gave me an idea to charge $X for rent + heat (X being the approximate value of 1/2 mortgage + average current heat bill)	07:21
@preaction	so when i fix the windows / insulation, $X means more money	07:21
@rizen	you should charge whatever the highest amount the market will bear	07:22
@preaction	right, the market will bear more when there's more percieved value. if the current average elec/heat bill is $200, and I charge $725, when i fix things and bring the heat/elec bill down to $100 avg, that's another $100 for me.	07:23
@preaction	otherwise i just charge the $525 for rent	07:23
@preaction	insulating and fixing windows is now almost worthless, except for keeping tenants	07:24
@preaction	it's another gamble, of course	07:24
* perlDreamer wishes to renew his older gripe about hash slicing		07:27
@preaction	uh... line 119 of lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Cron.pm seems to only return the params if the params are the empty string, that's wrong?	07:29
@preaction	it fixes the tests that were failing, so i guess so	07:30
+perlDreamer	s/eq/ne/?	07:30
@preaction	yeah	07:31
@preaction	the question is were they failing on the existing smoketest box?	07:31
+perlDreamer	tests 26-29?	07:32
@preaction	they weren't... why not?	07:32
@rizen	it's times like these that i'm glad to have a pub open next to my house	07:32
@preaction	nm, they were	07:32
+perlDreamer	We don't have a Cron test yet, perhaps?	07:32
@preaction	Spectre/Workflow.t is failing, and some tests in Group.t and User.t	07:33
@rizen	perlDreamer: there is no hash at that line	07:34
@rizen	parameters is still a string	07:34
+perlDreamer	right but it says if the string is blank, then it's okay	07:34
+perlDreamer	and it should be that if it is not blank, it is okay	07:34
@preaction	yeah. i've fixed it and will be checking it in	07:35
+perlDreamer	does the test pass now?	07:35
@rizen	oh i see	07:35
@rizen	what are you talking about with hash slicing then?	07:35
@rizen	what does that mean?	07:35
@preaction	$hash->{ "keyone","keytwo","keythree" }	07:35
@preaction	but i think his problem is @hash{"keyone","keytwo"}	07:36
@rizen	none of what you just typed has any meaning for me	07:36
@rizen	nor does it appear to have anything to do with line 119 of Cron.pm	07:36
+perlDreamer	No, he is responing to my previous hash slice gripe	07:37
@preaction	you can get an array of values out of a hash by using my %hash = ( a => 1, b => 2); print @hash{"a","b"};	07:37
@preaction	no, i fixed 119. the tests pass now	07:37
@rizen	oh	07:37
+perlDreamer	but I do not think $hash->{@arr} is really a slice	07:37
+perlDreamer	@{ $hash }{@arr} is a slice	07:37
@rizen	sorry, i didn't realize we were talking about different things	07:37
@preaction	i never remember how to take a slice of a hashref	07:37
@preaction	$hash is not an array ref, it's a hash ref	07:38
@preaction	that's my only gripe about hash slices, hashref slices gets weird	07:38
+perlDreamer	right, but you have to sigil it as an array to slice it	07:38
+perlDreamer	if we had %hash, we'd use @hash to slice it	07:39
+perlDreamer	if you have a hashref, you have to tell it to consider it a "hashslice", defined by the following index field	07:39
@preaction	right, but @{} is a deref, not just a sigil change. i think that i agreed with you and was wrong	07:39
@preaction	but then, a simple test would prove it either way	07:40
+perlDreamer	see Shop::Tax line 121	07:40
+perlDreamer	WebGUI::Shop::Tax in the commerce branch	07:41
@preaction	i fixed the Macro/SQL.t, which was failing because i had a user with NULL as a username for some reason... but User.t and Group.t are failing because of the by IP tests...	07:42
@preaction	but that's obviously an IPv6 / IPv4 problem	07:43
+perlDreamer	time to go stretch	07:43
+perlDreamer	catch you later guys	07:43
@preaction	cya	07:43
@rizen	bye	07:43
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@rizen	preaction...so since this machine will become the test rig	07:46
@rizen	does that mean it will also take over nightly builds?	07:46
@preaction	i was thinking no, mainly because it would then have to upload them to frozen	07:47
@rizen	isn't it going to upload the test results to frozen?	07:47
@preaction	yeah	07:48
@preaction	currently i have a WWW::Mechanize script publishing a new thread to the smoketests forum	07:48
@rizen	why not just email it in?	07:48
@rizen	wouldn't that be more foolproof?	07:48
@preaction	probably, but it already works ;)	07:49
@preaction	plus i couldn't attach a file using e-mail, if that would work for the Devel::Cover report	07:49
@rizen	why not?	07:50
@rizen	email handles attachments	07:50
@preaction	eh, i can change it once i start adding Devel::Cover and making the box create the site, run the tests, and then delete the site (so we can run tests against newly-created sites, the site starter wizard, and etc...)	07:51
@preaction	i think these tests are failing because my network's subnet is 192.168.0.0/16, and so the visitor and admin user last logged in from one of those addresses, throwing off the Test::Deep comparison with those two user IDs	08:04
@rizen	do you think there's any reason to make webgui IPv6 compatible, and what would it take to do that?	08:05
@preaction	i don't see it as a priority, it will be necessary someday of course	08:07
@rizen	yeah, doesn't seem like IPv6 adoption is moving forward quickly	08:08
@preaction	if the tools we're using to compare subnets / IP addresses support IPv6, then it might be as simple as changing data fields to accept IPv6 string size	08:08
@preaction	but probably not that simple	08:08
@preaction	i can't think of many places outside of User and Group that we check IPs, and those use Net::Subnets	08:09
@preaction	not sure if Net::Subnets can handle IPv6 though	08:09
@rizen	spectre stuff	08:09
@rizen	and no it can't...at least as of the version that was out when i started using it	08:09
@preaction	which is the same version out now from what i see, 0.21	08:10
@preaction	nope, it's expecting 32-bit addresses	08:11
@preaction	it's something to keep in the back burner probably, and i've found the module that'll do it: http://search.cpan.org/~luismunoz/NetAddr-IP-4.007/Lite/Lite.pm	08:16
@rizen	wow that module is super cool	08:17
@rizen	why can i never find those super cool ones when i look	08:17
@rizen	i must be blind	08:17
@rizen	incidentally i've found the coolest wiki in the history of the world	08:20
@rizen	it gives me new ideas for our wiki, as well as new stuff for webgui in general	08:20
@rizen	it has an ass kicker macro language: http://wiki.opengarden.org/@gui/extensions	08:21
@rizen	http://wiki.mindtouch.com/Deki_wiki	08:21
@preaction	its definitely pretty	08:22
@rizen	ok sleepy time for me	08:22
@rizen	ttyl	08:22
@preaction	ha, it uses Viddler. one of my friends is their sysadmin	08:22
@preaction	cya	08:22
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CIA-40	WebGUI: doug * r5477 /WebGUI/ (lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Cron.pm t/Group.t t/User.t):	08:33
CIA-40	WebGUI: changed User.t and Group.t to use a less used ip address to make tests pass on my network that uses 192.168.0.0/16\	08:33
CIA-40	WebGUI: fixed a logic bug in WebGUI/Workflow/Cron	08:33
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SynQ	morning	11:19
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SynQ	morning bart	11:48
BartJol	morning	11:54
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nuba	preaction: >it used my username, not my alias	15:13
nuba	preaction: it scrapes http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki?func=recentChanges, thats why	15:13
BartJol	I doubt whether preaction is really awake	15:19
nuba	well he'll be highlighted anyway	15:35
BartJol	is he radio-active?	15:41
nuba	heh dont think so, but if he'll notice it or not will depend on how he uses IRC and on his IRC client's features	15:53
nuba	any time a highlight happens IRSSI flags the window for me	15:53
BartJol	mm, moving windows, sound like a vista feature	15:54
nuba	also if im set as away, it'll list them when I un-away	15:54
nuba	IRSSI is a text-only IRC client, the window's number turn to red in the status bar	15:55
nuba	thats the kind of flagging im talking :)	15:55
BartJol	sorry, I'm just playing that I'n THAT stupid	15:55
nuba	screen will also warn me of a beep in the irssi's window	15:55
nuba	so im quite covered ;)	15:55
nuba	yeah im just playing along..	15:55
BartJol	thanks	15:56
nuba	anytime	15:56
nuba	just watched http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Side_of_the_Rainbow this weekend	15:58
nuba	it really syncs nicely	15:59
nuba	plenty of highly probabilistc unlikely coincidences	16:00
nuba	obviously, it was edited to make it happen	16:00
nuba	or maybe its just that im a pink floyd enthusiast and my mind wants to believe it	16:02
BartJol	I I've seen chopper	16:14
BartJol	http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0221073/	16:14
BartJol	it was a bit strange	16:15
BartJol	mmm, I'm not really a floyd fan	16:15
BartJol	but it still sound snice to watch	16:15
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SynQ	ah rizen	17:01
SynQ	before I forget	17:02
SynQ	thank you for the time you put in answering my e-mails	17:02
@rizen	you're welcome. sorry it took so long	17:03
@rizen	lots going on these days	17:03
SynQ	I understand	17:03
SynQ	same her	17:03
SynQ	here even	17:03
SynQ	I'm trying to build a growing business :)	17:03
nuba	i wanted to force a specific version of JSON for CPAN to install	17:04
nuba	tried "install http://backpan.perl.org/authors/id/M/MA/MAKAMAKA/JSON-2.04.tar.gz"	17:04
nuba	and it worked	17:04
nuba	didnt knew you could do that with CPAN	17:04
SynQ	JT, who is meatbob?	17:05
@rizen	wow, i didn't know you could do that either	17:05
@rizen	meatpop is steve, the pb design guy	17:05
SynQ	ah	17:05
nuba	really fits with the "Do what you mean" philosophy	17:05
SynQ	the 'new' pb design guy?	17:06
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SynQ	hi bopbop	17:06
bopbop	good morning	17:06
SynQ	are you meatbob?	17:07
SynQ	bopmeat	17:07
SynQ	http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/spectre-broken-due-to-json/8	17:09
@rizen	bopbop is kristi our training chica	17:09
bopbop	SynQ: nope	17:09
SynQ	ah	17:09
SynQ	:)	17:09
* SynQ hugs kristi		17:09
bopbop	bopbop hugs SynQ back	17:10
SynQ	that smoring has a point	17:10
SynQ	If it's this hard to use the WRE to install the most recent stable version and it simply doesn't run spectre due to incompatibilites with JSON, what chance does one have of successfully getting the product up and running so that you can test with it.	17:10
SynQ	he says	17:10
SynQ	I would say	17:10
SynQ	If WebGUI stable is to break during upgrading	17:11
SynQ	how stable is it	17:11
SynQ	bear in mind that I really don't want to bitch here	17:11
SynQ	but I can imagine that someone who is new to webgui is really gonna have a hard time	17:12
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br4k3r	hey guys... is there any way to do image maps within WG	17:16
@rizen	SynQ it isn't our fault that one of the core libraries that we depend on was changed in totally uncompatible ways	17:24
@rizen	and i'm working on a new version of the WRE that fixes all the problems...but i don't want to put out a piece of crap that doesn't work, so I'm taking my time	17:24
@rizen	br4k3r do you mean creating an image map or using one?	17:25
@rizen	using one definitely	17:25
@rizen	to use one, put your image map tags into a snippet	17:26
@rizen	along with a reference to the image that you want to use using the ^FileUrl macro	17:26
SynQ	ah	17:28
SynQ	I'll stick with WebGUI 7.4.21 till that WRE is out then	17:29
SynQ	would it be a good recommendation to all WRE users out there to stick with 7.4.21 ?	17:32
SynQ	due to the Config::JSON problems you might expect?	17:32
nuba	SynQ: you mean as in "if you cant follow the gotchas.txt please stick with 7.4.21".	17:34
nuba	?	17:34
nuba	gotcha.txt*	17:35
SynQ	ah	17:35
SynQ	well	17:35
br4k3r	using image map	17:35
SynQ	the gotcha.txt states just to upgrade to Config::JSON 1.1.2	17:36
SynQ	before	17:36
SynQ	before upgrading	17:36
SynQ	now I'm going to try that tonight	17:36
SynQ	and see if it works	17:36
SynQ	but I have a feeling that getting it right will require some quite deep perl skills	17:37
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perlmonkey2	SynQ: Are you trying to start a WG related business?	17:39
SynQ	hi doug	17:39
SynQ	perlmonkey2: I am running a WG related business allready	17:39
nuba	perlmonkey2: hes a veteran	17:40
SynQ	veteran, that sounds like I've been to war with JT	17:40
perlmonkey2	groovy	17:40
perlmonkey2	over JSON?	17:40
SynQ	hehe	17:40
SynQ	no way	17:40
nuba	lol	17:40
perlmonkey2	heh	17:40
SynQ	with, as in together with	17:40
SynQ	not against	17:40
perlmonkey2	"The 100 year CMS wars fought in the late 20th and 21st century. The bloodiest single episode of human history." --Wikipedia entry 2203CE	17:42
@apeiron	War is great for the economy, something the US could use right now. :)	17:43
@apeiron	(an economic boost, that is)	17:43
@preaction	you mean we're not at war right now?	17:45
nuba	what? dont you US guys qualify the current events in iraq as war already?	17:45
SynQ	war is bad for everyone	17:46
@preaction	not for the winner	17:46
SynQ	also for the winner	17:47
SynQ	in war everyone looses	17:47
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nuba	that is so lame. "economy needs a boost, housing bubble is about to explode. Yeah, lets explode some other country instead. We bust some ass and boost ourselves."	17:51
nuba	i believe the only winners in a war are those making money with the war	17:52
@rizen	there are no winners in war	17:55
nuba	and these guys are not necessarily located in the countries who "won" the war	17:55
@rizen	and war being great for the economy was only true when the government was a bigger portion of the economy	17:55
@rizen	these days the US government is a tiny fraction of the US economy	17:55
SynQ	I agree with JT	17:55
SynQ	on this statement :)	17:55
@rizen	and the US government is an insignificant fraction of the total global economy	17:56
jdferm	actually... preaction has a point. The reason we are in a "perpetual war economy" right now in the US is because the powers that be saw how successful WWII was at bringing the U.S. out of the depression it was in.	17:58
jdferm	err not preaction apeiron.	17:59
jdferm	sorry for the misstatement	17:59
SynQ	assumption is the mother of all error	17:59
SynQ	war is the error	17:59
SynQ	assumption of the mother is war	17:59
jdferm	Upgrading joomla is the mother of all error.	17:59
nuba	i thought the mother and father of all errors of lately were JSON and Config::JSON	18:00
jdferm	or should I say the subsequent "RESTRICTED ACCESS" on all of my pages after upgrading Joomla! were the mother of all errors.	18:01
@rizen	with what we spend on the war in iraq alone (not including other military expenditures) we could have a moon base, brought back a dinosaur from extinction, have a maglev train between new york and LA, destroyed joomla, plone and the rest	18:01
nuba	i wonder when society in general in US will start resenting the governments' military military expenditure	18:03
@rizen	many of us already do	18:03
@preaction	never. there's a war on terror going on!	18:03
nuba	cause even here in brazil, 5k miles away, people wonder about that	18:03
@preaction	we won the war on drugs, now we're winning the war on terrur!	18:03
@rizen	politicians use terms like "greatest country on earth" and i keep asking greatest at what?	18:04
@rizen	military is the only thing we do well	18:04
@rizen	at least anymore	18:04
@rizen	we used to be the high tech country, but we lost that a long time ago	18:04
nuba	btw, Im curious of how's public perception of the 9-11 events currently ? Is questioning the offical explanations still seen as overstretched paranoia?	18:05
@rizen	we used to be the big dawgs in the entertainment world, but there are lots of other countries that make better music and movies than us	18:05
@preaction	i think our only salvation is going to be to stop the unilateral, heavy-handed global politics and surrender our foreign military bases to the direct supervision of the United Nations or its replacement	18:05
SynQ	pff	18:06
@preaction	nuba, yes. even though the evidence is starting to make sense	18:06
SynQ	the united nations is a US institution	18:06
SynQ	mostly	18:06
nuba	these videos and material from scholars-for-911 and alikes are getting somewhat popular here in brazil, between the university folks and faculty...	18:06
@preaction	SynQ, exactly. it was designed to be completely ineffective at stopping the five major powers from doing what they want	18:06
SynQ	nice huh	18:07
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@rizen	wow this channel really turned political rather than technological all of the sudden	18:11
@rizen	=)	18:11
@rizen	anybody see the new knight rider last night?	18:11
SynQ	nope	18:11
@rizen	i thought it was really good	18:11
SynQ	but I hear it is a ford mustang	18:11
ckotil	yeah. i liked it	18:12
SynQ	and it has no flame thrower	18:12
ckotil	yet...	18:12
ckotil	kitt (knigh industries THREE thousand) has nano tech body armor	18:12
ckotil	the nano machines can even turn the car into any model mustand of any color	18:12
@rizen	it's the best premier i've seen on television in a number of years	18:12
SynQ	hehe	18:13
nuba	is the knight a street-wise, man-next-door, turned hero?	18:13
SynQ	wait until the new a-team comes out	18:13
ckotil	sort of. ex army rangers	18:13
@rizen	ex-army ranger with a gambling problem and babes strapped to each arm	18:13
nuba	could you describe it as a contemporary version of Captain America?	18:14
@rizen	i'd say it's more of a bourne identity type thing, only with a sci fi element	18:15
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nuba	ok.. I'd be scared if some hero to capitalize on "american pride vs. the world" would appear in times like these.	18:17
nuba	something like "Us vs. Them"	18:17
nuba	where Them would be "rest of the world"	18:17
@rizen	actually they are bringing back the captain america comic book	18:17
@rizen	which i thought was stupid	18:17
jdferm	I saw the new KITT & thought it looked like something that a couple of teenagers with $1000 at a Pep Boys would have done with a Mustang.	18:18
jdferm	The whole idea behind KITT was that it looked somewhat like a normal car from the outside.	18:18
@rizen	the new kit can morph to look like a normal mustang	18:19
@rizen	s/kit/kitt/	18:19
@rizen	plus the new kitt is a real car	18:20
@rizen	ford is actually putting out a limited edition version of it	18:20
jdferm	LOL	18:20
jdferm	you know you're hurting for sales when.......	18:20
@rizen	as you laugh they'll make millions i'm sure	18:20
jdferm	Hopefully it does better than their last special edition "Bullit" release.	18:21
@rizen	bullit?	18:21
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jdferm	Aye	18:21
@rizen	what was that from?	18:21
jdferm	Bullit.	18:21
@rizen	was there a movie called Bullit or something?	18:22
@rizen	oh yeah	18:22
jdferm	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Mustang_variants#Bullitt	18:22
@rizen	interesting	18:22
jdferm	Steve McQueen. An American legend :)	18:23
jdferm	Ford has this nasty habit of overpricing special edition cars. Consquently they tend to sit on the lot a longer than they should.	18:26
jdferm	The "new" Thunderbird is another example of that.	18:26
jdferm	Most people look at the price of the special edition & think "well.. I'm only $2000-3000 away from getting the Cobra" and spend that little bit extra for a big improvement instead of getting a glorified GT>	18:27
@apeiron	They should just get a Thundercougarfalconbird.	18:28
nuba	Bah, Mad Max's interceptor is much cooler	18:28
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jdferm	And after a little bit of research, we find why the new KITT looks so ridiculous.	18:37
jdferm	"For designers, the first challenge of creating a screen version of the "King of the Road"2008 Shelby GT500KR, was that the car isn't even on the road yet. The solution was to go to Galpin Auto Sports (GAS) who is well-known for creating one-of-a-kind vehicles in the California market."	18:38
@rizen	why are you hating on the new kitt so much? are you really stuck in the 80's?	18:39
jdferm	You may know Galpin Auto Sports better from their other show on tv.	18:39
jdferm	"Galpin Auto Sports is the car garage featured on the USA version of MTV's Pimp My Ride."	18:39
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jdferm	Rizen, I just think the new KITT is an eyesore & looks like a sad attempt at corporate television & automotive to "get in touch with the youth".	18:41
@rizen	if you think it's an eyesore that's one thing, but i think you have deeper issues...you just keep going on and on and on and on	18:42
@rizen	we get it, you don't like it	18:42
@rizen	move on	18:42
@rizen	not trying to rip on you, just would rather change the topic	18:44
@rizen	too much negativity in the world	18:44
jdferm	wow... sorry. I was sharing the info I found about why its styling is the way it is. Back on topin... yay webgui.	18:44
nuba	"get in touch with the youth" LOL	18:48
@rizen	anybody know where i can find a howto for building subversion with perl bindings	18:51
@rizen	with the swig bindings...having a problem	18:51
@rizen	need it for the new WRE	18:51
nuba	rizen: i assume you did read the swig section of the subversion install or readme docs?	18:51
@rizen	yes	18:51
@rizen	i'm following the instructions	18:51
@rizen	the problem is that i'm getting errors that don't make any sense to me	18:52
nuba	ok, cant help you there. after so much pain myself I went with /usr/ports	18:52
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+perlDreamer	preaction: it's impossible for the label test to succeed	19:03
+perlDreamer	It's a flaw in how the parser works	19:03
+perlDreamer	If it is passing, you need to double check your smoke setup	19:03
nuba	perlDreamer> and forcing me to type quote-space to get a literal quote	19:04
nuba	thats cause youre using a kb layout w/ deadkeys	19:04
nuba	and quote can be used with some vowels in latin languages	19:05
+perlDreamer	well, the first time I told it use the compose character, it worked fine	19:05
+perlDreamer	then I rebooted, and it stopped	19:05
+perlDreamer	but I will look into the keyboard config again	19:05
+perlDreamer	because typing spanish the other way was intolerable	19:05
@preaction	ah. it's because i didn't enable the long tests yet	19:10
+perlDreamer	nuba, is there a layout without dead keys, or is there a way to disable them?	19:11
nuba	perlDreamer: you need deadkeys to produce things likt �+i = �	19:12
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nuba	otherwise you can use a US layout w/o deadkeys and some app like Character Map to produce things like �	19:14
+perlDreamer	so what if I want it to do Compose + ' + i = �	19:14
+perlDreamer	rather than ' + i ?	19:14
nuba	but I find that worst than having to cope with "<space> to produce a quote	19:14
+perlDreamer	It is, much worse	19:14
+perlDreamer	that was round 1	19:14
+perlDreamer	but it is interfering with my English typing a lot, and my perl string making	19:14
nuba	perlDreamer: i assume you typed something different than this to me: + ' + i = �	19:15
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nuba	but it broke on its way to my eyes	19:15
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nuba	probably need to look out term encoding settings...	19:15
nuba	me, that is	19:15
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+perlDreamer	hm	19:20
+perlDreamer	I'm going to try a reboot, because the new keyboard group is not showing up	19:21
+perlDreamer	bbl	19:21
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+perlDreamer	No success	19:37
+perlDreamer	I switched back for now.	19:37
+perlDreamer	and I'll post on the fedora forums	19:37
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+perlDreamer	preaction: I think you need to install a few dependencies on your smoke test server	19:41
+perlDreamer	at least Test::MockObject	19:41
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+perlDreamer	preaction: I found the $/ undef bug	20:40
+perlDreamer	It should have been easier than it was, since I did it in the first place	20:40
+perlDreamer	It was in Storage.pm, getFileContentsAsScalar	20:41
+perlDreamer	and in a Storage.t test as well	20:41
+perlDreamer	but it's been fixed in 7.4, HEAD and Commerce branches	20:41
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CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5478 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm t/Storage.t): Fix a bug where $/ ended up being undef globally.	20:46
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5479 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/t/Storage.t: sideport new test for $/, and add diagnostics to the getPathFrag test	20:46
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5480 /WebGUI/ (lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm t/Storage.t): Forward port diagnostics and $/ bug fix from 7.4 and Commerce branches.	20:46
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5481 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/t/Storage.t: Port over missing diagnostic for getPathFrag test.	20:46
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@rizen	inspiration added to translation server: http://i18n.webgui.org/	21:08
nuba	rizen: if youre considering RFE for the i18n, it would be good if you had #anchors in the list of strings to be translated,	21:09
nuba	and were sent there after having translated a given string	21:10
nuba	cause every time i forget to open the editor in a new tab,	21:10
nuba	im in for a bunch of scrolling down and "where was I once again?..."	21:10
@rizen	huh?	21:11
nuba	not understood?	21:11
@rizen	yeah i don't understand the request	21:12
nuba	want me to rephrase it here, by email, or what?..	21:12
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nuba	in a single line: every edit in the WebGUI namespace (which has 734 items to be translated) sends me to the top of the list after I translate the item and click on "save".	21:14
@rizen	oh i see	21:15
nuba	im opening new tabs in firefox for every item I want to translate there	21:15
@rizen	what if i just filter the items to be translated to the top of the list?	21:15
nuba	well sometimes the order helps with context	21:15
nuba	when theres no context info in the item	21:15
nuba	but not always.	21:16
@rizen	can you do an anchor tag through a form post?	21:16
nuba	dunno, never tried adding #ref in the action url.	21:16
@rizen	let me see if it can be done	21:16
nuba	but yeah showing the not-translated-yet first would be nice too	21:17
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5482 /tools/translationserver.cgi: added image	21:17
@rizen	what do you know	21:20
@rizen	it works	21:20
@rizen	feature added	21:20
@rizen	at least it works in safari	21:20
@rizen	haven't tested in other browsers	21:20
@rizen	give it a try	21:20
nuba	coolgreat	21:20
nuba	works in firefox too	21:20
@rizen	thanks for the rfe	21:21
nuba	thanks for the quick implementation	21:21
@rizen	anything i can do to make it an easier job (within reason) i'm going to do. i know it's a lot of work to translate	21:21
+perlDreamer	nice gooey graphic	21:25
@preaction	wait. someone else is doing the French translation too? or did we lose a huge number of possible things to translate?	21:27
@preaction	it went from 3% to 21% in a couple weeks	21:27
+perlDreamer	we lost a bunch of stuff last week	21:27
nuba	but there has been some activity there too	21:27
nuba	i saw it going up while I was working in BrazilianPortuguese the other day	21:28
+perlDreamer	Cool.	21:28
@preaction	ooh	21:28
nuba	finnish going up too irrc	21:28
nuba	iirc*	21:28
+perlDreamer	We did a little Spanish translation over the weekend	21:28
@preaction	hopefully they're fixing my pidgin french	21:28
@preaction	je parle francais un peu	21:28
@preaction	just a little	21:28
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perlmonkey2	would it not be faster to run all of it through a machine translator and then correct it?	21:29
+perlDreamer	Only if you have someone to correct it	21:30
+perlDreamer	and given the quality of machine translation, it's probably faster just to do it by hand	21:30
+perlDreamer	the machines have no idea of context	21:30
@preaction	that's what i've been doing. using google translation and verifying by hand	21:30
@preaction	even with my limited grasp of French, its enough to vet what the machine tells me	21:30
+perlDreamer	I had to look up half of the labels to see how they're used to make sure the right semantics/side meanings are used	21:31
@preaction	the machine tells me the nouns i don't know, i come up with the correct sentence structure	21:31
nuba	I tried machine-translating once, was more work to fix and savage the result	21:31
nuba	than to read, think, and write	21:31
nuba	not to mention that savaging a translated text sometimes results in a funny-looking text	21:32
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5483 /tools/translationserver.cgi: anchors remember where you are in long lists	21:32
nuba	not one that would be produced by a native speaker	21:32
perlmonkey2	but it is better than nothing for now....If wouldn't have to effect the translator if they decided to ignore it and rewrite from scratch.	21:34
+perlDreamer	there are slashdot stories about bad machine translations	21:34
+perlDreamer	"I thought it said WebGUI is here to help you". -> WebGUI is here to date your sister.	21:35
nuba	heh yeah	21:35
nuba	classic example: "the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak." english -> russian -> english, turn into "The vodka is good, but the meat is rotten"	21:38
+perlDreamer	I don't see what's inaccurate about that. I've heard Russian beef isn't that good.	21:39
@rizen	yeah, but russian women are excellent	21:47
@rizen	it more than makes up for bad beef	21:47
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5484 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Tax.pm t/Shop/Tax.t):	21:49
CIA-40	WebGUI: Renamed the import and export methods to prevent Perl from	21:49
CIA-40	WebGUI: calling them.	21:49
CIA-40	WebGUI: Added code and tests for import method. It needs more testing	21:49
CIA-40	WebGUI: for user input validation.	21:49
+perlDreamer	rizen: almost done with Shop/Tax, aside from web interface methods and calculateTax	21:49
@rizen	wish i could say the same for my part	21:50
@rizen	stupid wre	21:50
+perlDreamer	stupid wre	21:50
+perlDreamer	stupid computer	21:50
+perlDreamer	stupid house/plumbing	21:50
+perlDreamer	it was a rough weekend	21:50
+perlDreamer	SVN still giving you problems with SWIG?	21:50
@rizen	yes	21:51
@rizen	well now apache started giving me crap as of this morning	21:51
@rizen	still not sure what that's about	21:51
nuba	garbled crap?	21:54
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+perlDreamer	perlbot: garbled crap?	21:59
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5485 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/t/ (3 files in 3 dirs): move the CSV tax table into its own subdirectory	22:04
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BartJol	perldreamer, dis you receive my e-mail?"	23:18
+perlDreamer	BartJol	23:18
BartJol	adress?	23:18
+perlDreamer	no	23:18
BartJol	oh	23:18
BartJol	I tried to	23:18
BartJol	well it worked this time	23:19
+perlDreamer	the email filter at my ISP is slow. I'll check again in a few minutes	23:21
perlmonkey2	Gooey siting: http://tchung.fedorapeople.org/scale6x/exhibitors/00029.jpg	23:32
perlmonkey2	From the fedora scale6 photos	23:32
perlmonkey2	Even better: http://tchung.fedorapeople.org/scale6x/exhibitors/00033.jpg	23:32
+perlDreamer	rizen: Tax API is done.	23:34
+perlDreamer	BartJol, still no email	23:35
@rizen	you are ridiculously cooler than me	23:35
BartJol	oh	23:36
+perlDreamer	I'm also drier	23:36
+perlDreamer	Do you want me to start on the www_ methods, or pick up another piece?	23:36
perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: You aren't a PB employee right?	23:37
+perlDreamer	No	23:37
+perlDreamer	I design chips for a living	23:37
+perlDreamer	BartJol: My full name is colin kuskie	23:37
perlmonkey2	oh, that is who you are.	23:37
+perlDreamer	You can email me at firstName.lastName@gmail dot com	23:38
perlmonkey2	i've heard of the famous chip designer turned perl foss guru	23:38
+perlDreamer	famous?	23:39
+perlDreamer	I have a reputation?	23:39
@rizen	perlDreamer for now i'd say move on to the shipping stuff	23:39
@rizen	i can't believe you're done	23:39
@rizen	it's killing me	23:39
+perlDreamer	It only had like 5 or 6 methods	23:39
+perlDreamer	no external dependencies	23:39
perlmonkey2	is it in the source tree? I want to see it :)	23:39
+perlDreamer	The commerce branch	23:39
perlmonkey2	Which module? I don't see Tax.pm :)	23:42
+perlDreamer	lib/WebGUI/Shop/Tax.pm	23:42
@preaction	WebGUI::Shop is the namespace now?	23:42
@preaction	nm, i'll read the fine manual	23:43
+perlDreamer	preaction: yes	23:43
+perlDreamer	5 year backwards compatibility	23:43
@preaction	that shouldn't be hard	23:43
perlmonkey2	WebGUI::UTIL needs a "validateHash(qw/foo bar/)"	23:44
@preaction	validate hash?	23:44
perlmonkey2	saw in Tax.pm a loop for doing that and realized it is somethign I do all the time.	23:45
@preaction	List::Util and List::MoreUtils might have what you need	23:45
perlmonkey2	oh :)	23:45
+perlDreamer	Smart matching in 5.10 would be perfect	23:45
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perlmonkey2	Is "Ruling WebGUI" no longer in the book list?	23:47
+perlDreamer	well, do I live up to my perl foss guru reputation?	23:48
+perlDreamer	Blue hand men coming down the hall	23:48
@preaction	two by two	23:51
perlmonkey2	What is the "Ruling WebGUI" book now called, since it isn't in the book shop?	23:53
+perlDreamer	It's in many, many pieces now	23:53
+perlDreamer	Many pieces are in the wiki	23:54
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5486 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (7 files in 3 dirs): Input validation tests for importTaxData.	23:54
+perlDreamer	the other parts at the Admin guide, commerce guide, primer and content manager's guide	23:54
perlmonkey2	thanks perlDreamer	23:55
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--- Day changed Tue Feb 19 2008
+perlDreamer	rizen: in the Shipper docs, it mentions coupon. Is that just copy/paste from coupon, or do the two sub classes actually interact?	00:05
@rizen	let me read quick	00:08
@rizen	thats a cut/paste error	00:09
perlmonkey2	How long did it take to write Tax.pm and design the tax table?	00:21
+perlDreamer	the tax design (table and api) was done by rizen	00:21
+perlDreamer	I didn't keep track of how long it took me to write it and the tests.	00:22
perlmonkey2	it took as long as it took :)	00:22
+perlDreamer	I worked in the evenings, a little on the weekend, and a chunk of today.	00:23
+perlDreamer	speaking of time, it's time to peel the taters	00:24
perlmonkey2	mmmm, taters	00:25
+perlDreamer	my wife makes the world's most awesome potato bread	00:29
+perlDreamer	So I make taters, and she makes bread	00:29
+perlDreamer	it's a good division of labor	00:29
perlmonkey2	synergy	00:31
* perlmonkey2 donks himself for using that word.		00:31
@preaction	paradigm!	00:31
* perlmonkey2 donks preaction		00:32
@apeiron	snicker. Ask buubot in #perl about 'managementspeak'. :)	00:33
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BartJol	peel taters? it's half past 11!!!	00:34
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perlmonkey2	We are totally going to blow away surveymonkey:http://surveymonkey.com/Home_Pricing.aspx vs WebGUI:FREE!	00:50
perlmonkey2	and surveymonkey is taking the survey world by storm...but it isn't that great. The spec I've worked out with the profs here should be just as good. And the second iteration will blow surveymonkey awya.	00:51
@rizen	wahoo!!!	00:52
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danny_mk	Hello cap10morgan	01:12
danny_mk	did you see the messages I left on the OpenId article?	01:13
cap10morgan	danny_mk: hey	01:15
cap10morgan	did you update it today?	01:15
danny_mk	about a week ago	01:16
danny_mk	we have to wait for the Net::OpenId::Consumer module to be updated	01:17
cap10morgan	ah, yes	01:17
cap10morgan	i did see that	01:17
cap10morgan	quick opinion poll of webgui devs: i keep running into places where it would be useful to have easy api access to DataForm entries; would it be useful / make sense to create a class to represent those?	01:20
cap10morgan	i'm thinking some kinda autoloader so you can grab form field values as accessors	01:21
danny_mk	like CGI::FormBuilder ?	01:21
cap10morgan	danny_mk: i'm not familiar w/ that module	01:22
danny_mk	hold on	01:22
danny_mk	http://www.formbuilder.org/	01:23
nuba	cap10morgan: you mean instantiating a data form fill out as an object ?	01:24
cap10morgan	nuba: yep	01:24
nuba	for things like foreach $form_fillout (@forms_fillouts) { # do something with $form_fillout->attribute('foo') } ?	01:25
cap10morgan	exactly	01:26
nuba	well that makes total sense, Im not used to hack on data forms but if I were to I'd be expecting to find such a thing there	01:26
nuba	or at least to have an array of Ids of form fillouts, and to be able to instantiate them based on Ids	01:28
cap10morgan	nuba: yeah, it sure would be nice :)	01:28
nuba	IOW not necessarily expecting I could produce a @forms_fillouts array containing fillout_objects	01:29
nuba	cap10morgan: btw did you check the mysql HTML doco link i posted for you, re: mysiamchk on tables being currently used?	01:30
cap10morgan	yeah, that's basically what i was saying in my bug report	01:30
cap10morgan	that it was saying that because the table was in use	01:31
nuba	did you actually check the link, or did you just read the excerpt I included there	01:31
nuba	?	01:31
cap10morgan	but thanks for posting official confirmation :)	01:31
nuba	its not quite a bug but more like a limitation of myisamchk	01:32
cap10morgan	that's not the bug i was reporting	01:32
nuba	have you tried to myisamchk them with the mysqld down ?	01:32
cap10morgan	no	01:33
cap10morgan	i can't take mysql down too often	01:33
cap10morgan	it's a production server	01:33
cap10morgan	i was just demonstrating that myisamchk finds no other problems w/ those tables (besides being open)	01:33
cap10morgan	because the database cache is making my apache processes segfault	01:33
nuba	yeah i know how it goes, maintenance window, scheduled maintenances, etc	01:33
cap10morgan	yeah, good times :)	01:34
nuba	heh they're good times if you're finished before the window ends	01:35
nuba	and the production push was succesful	01:35
cap10morgan	yep :)	01:35
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nuba	cap10morgan: you know you can make a copy of the table, work on it, then replace in a snap with minimal downtime, right:	01:37
nuba	cap10morgan: you might want to check mysqlhotcopy	01:37
nuba	s/right:/right?/	01:38
cap10morgan	nuba: sure, but it's not the point of this bug report, unless no one will do anything w/ it unless i triple confirm the tables are fine :)	01:38
nuba	heh got it	01:38
cap10morgan	in which case, yeah, i'll probably use that :)	01:38
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Khaytsus	How do I show messaging/pm/etc? Last post here seems to say it is in 7.4 http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/dev/discuss/sending-messages-to-inbox	03:20
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@preaction	Khaytsus, if you view another user's profile, there's a link to send them a private message	03:21
Khaytsus	Not sure how to view other profile then I guess :)	03:21
+Radix-wrk	forum posts	03:22
+Radix-wrk	assuming profile is non-private	03:22
Khaytsus	ahh... What if they have not posted?	03:22
@preaction	if you have their userId you can see their profile	03:23
@preaction	if you have admin privileges you can get their userId	03:24
Khaytsus	k.. I am, but I was thinking for user-to-user	03:24
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@preaction	they have to know their userId then	03:26
Khaytsus	k	03:26
@preaction	you could write an SQLReport that would look users up by username	03:26
Khaytsus	Hmmm.. I'llread up on that	03:27
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Ceogar	Hola	04:25
Ceogar	whatts up?	04:25
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CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5487 branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/commerce.pod: Fix a few typos	07:01
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5488 branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/ShipperDriver.pm t/Shop/ShipperDriver.t): base work for ShipperDriver module with tests	07:01
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SDuensin	Morning all.	15:48
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wgGuest23	helo	15:56
wgGuest23	hello	15:56
wgGuest23	i have an error in one of my sites, the error is the next	15:57
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wgGuest23	asset constructor new() requires an assestid	15:59
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wgGuest23	do you know what is it about?	16:00
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wgGuest23	pass in object came back undefined for activity (csactivity000000000001) using WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Collaboration, new	16:03
wgGuest23	this is the error	16:03
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wgGuest81	does anyone konw where i can find a detailed explanation of what the content managers or publishers groups are used for in webgui?	16:37
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wgGuest23	hello	16:40
wgGuest23	i have two assets locked by admin and i want to delete them but i can not	16:40
wgGuest23	do you know how to delete them'	16:41
teflond0n	I would say commit them (which may be why they are locked...) then delete as longs as you have permission	16:47
wgGuest23	the problem is that i don't have any commit version	16:49
wgGuest23	i am logged with the admin user and there is not commit version pending	16:50
+MrHairgrease	wgguest23 make the version tag in which those assets your current version tag	16:50
+MrHairgrease	and then delete those assets	16:50
+MrHairgrease	or	16:50
+MrHairgrease	if these assets are all that's in the tag	16:50
+MrHairgrease	delete the tag itself	16:50
wgGuest23	can i delete a tag througout mysql console?	16:54
+MrHairgrease	you don't want to do that	16:55
+MrHairgrease	do it through admin console > version tags	16:55
wgGuest23	MrHairgrease, i am checking in the version tags- commited version, the thing that i have to do is look for the respective tag and delete it?	17:01
+MrHairgrease	the tag isn't committed yet	17:03
+MrHairgrease	otherwise the asset wouldn't be locked	17:03
+MrHairgrease	so find the tag	17:03
+MrHairgrease	and delete that	17:03
+MrHairgrease	note that doiing that will delete ALL content under that tag	17:04
+MrHairgrease	so be sure to remove it only if you wan't to remove all content under the tag	17:04
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wgGuest23	the problem is that i don't have any version to commit?	17:05
wgGuest32	hello	17:05
estiven	hi	17:06
+MrHairgrease	is the tag still pending?	17:06
wgGuest23	no, i don't appear as pending	17:07
wgGuest23	no, it doesn't appear as pending	17:07
+MrHairgrease	it is either, not commited at all	17:07
+MrHairgrease	pending	17:07
+MrHairgrease	or committed	17:07
+MrHairgrease	in the first two cases an asset appears to be locked	17:08
+MrHairgrease	in the latter is doesn't	17:08
+MrHairgrease	so	17:08
+MrHairgrease	you're assets are either under an uncommitted tag	17:08
+MrHairgrease	or a pending one (which you don't have so there must be an uncommitted tag)	17:09
wgGuest23	the problem happened while i was doing an upgrade. So i did an upgrade ,then i tried to change somenthing in an assest but the commit doesn'nt work because i have a problem with a json library. so i have to install an older version of json and then i had to upgrade again from 7.3.21 to 7.3.24	17:11
wgGuest23	now i am in 7.3.24 and i fixed the json problem but i can not edit the assets that i modified before	17:12
+MrHairgrease	weird...	17:13
+MrHairgrease	is spectre running okay?	17:13
wgGuest23	when i was in 7.3.21 in tried to commit the version tag but the assets continues as locked	17:13
wgGuest23	yes	17:13
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+MrHairgrease	hmm	17:14
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+MrHairgrease	i think your best bet is to run spectre in debgu mode for a while	17:14
wgGuest23	ok	17:14
+MrHairgrease	so first shut it down: perl spectre.pl --shutdown	17:14
+MrHairgrease	then perl spectre.pl --rub --debug	17:15
+MrHairgrease	perl spectre.pl --run --debug	17:15
wgGuest23	i am going to do	17:15
+MrHairgrease	from the sbin dir	17:15
+MrHairgrease	with the correct perl	17:15
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lisette	hi, i have a script of perl and i try insert to webgui �through a macro and the result is not the same, What shall I do?	17:18
wgGuest23	i tried it but there is not error	17:19
wgGuest23	in the webgui.log i have the next error: asset constructor new() requires an assestid	17:19
@rizen	lisette: you tried using the Execute macro, or you turned your script into a macro?	17:19
+MrHairgrease	yeah	17:19
+MrHairgrease	but did it do anything	17:19
+MrHairgrease	are the assets now unlocked?	17:19
wgGuest23	pass in object came back undefined for activity (csactivity000000000001) using WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Collaboration, new	17:20
lisette	i execute macro	17:20
wgGuest23	no, they continue locked	17:20
+MrHairgrease	ok	17:20
+MrHairgrease	well, sorry but I really have to do other stuff now so I cannot help you further with this problem	17:21
+MrHairgrease	maybe some other people in the channel knwo what to do	17:21
@rizen	lisette: could you please type the format of the macro into irc like this: ^Execute(/path/to/script); so we can see exactly what you've typed?	17:22
wgGuest23	ok, thanks	17:22
wgGuest23	someone knows about the next error:pass in object came back undefined for activity (csactivity000000000001) using WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Collaboration, new	17:23
lisette	^Execute("parameters");	17:26
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@rizen	lisette: that's your problem	17:31
@rizen	you need to pass it the full path to your script	17:31
@rizen	^Execute(/my/script/is/over/here/script.pl --param1 --param2);	17:32
lisette	mmm, maybe	17:32
@rizen	wgGuest23 that is a bug	17:32
@rizen	it is caused by a bug	17:32
lisette	but the same code of my script i transcribe in the macro	17:33
@rizen	so you did put your code into a macro then...that's what i asked you before and you said no	17:33
@rizen	what did you call the macro?	17:33
lisette	^Prueba("parameters")	17:34
lisette	I put the script as a method within the macro	17:35
@rizen	put the code of your macro into a Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com/	17:36
@rizen	and then paste the url here	17:36
lisette	i can't	17:39
lisette	i have passwords in the code	17:39
@rizen	then delete the passwords	17:40
@rizen	and paste	17:40
@rizen	or i can't help you	17:40
@rizen	besides you shouldn't have passwords in your code, that's what config files are fore	17:40
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lisette	i know, but no there way	17:43
@rizen	delete the passwords and paste the code and i'll show you a very easy way to do it	17:44
preaction	there's always a way!	17:44
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5489 /wrebuild/build.sh: :	17:45
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perlmonkey2	wow.....did lisette just come to waste peoples' time or did they really want help?	17:55
BartJol	i wouldn't have a clue, and that while god tried to help her	17:56
BartJol	oh eeeh , that is a bit over the top	17:57
jdferm	It's tough asking for help in a non native language :(	17:57
jdferm	I would cut them a break.	17:57
* MrHairgrease always wastes peoples time		17:59
BartJol	ok, but it's a bit strange to leave like that, but you're right too	17:59
BartJol	like me	17:59
BartJol	MARTIN!!!!!!	17:59
+MrHairgrease	bartjol also like to waste peoples time	17:59
BartJol	yeah, but I always give the opportunity to have a beer while I'm doing it	18:00
+MrHairgrease	that's why we usually waste each others time	18:00
BartJol	:)	18:00
@preaction	perlbot tmrfe	18:00
perlbot	The Man Responsible For Everything -- Sometimes you DO have someone to blame.	18:00
@rizen	i agree it's hard asking for help in a non-native language, but at the same time you have to be willing to help the people trying to help you	18:02
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BartJol	well, don't ponder about it too much, just let it flow away. I'm gonna pick up my trousers	18:06
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lisette	i can do a data form with a javascript?	18:07
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lisette	I mean change the datatype "Text" for password or add type password	18:09
@preaction	you don't need to do that in javascript. you can alter the template to have the field type you want	18:10
lisette	thanks	18:10
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@rizen	perlmonkey2 i'm sad to say that i'm going to have to give up on the wdk, i need to get moving on commerce, so i'm going to have to put out wre 0.8.2 without the wdk	18:44
+MrHairgrease	rizen, when's the codefreeze for 7.5?	18:46
perlmonkey2	rizen: ah, I'm sad. I was looking forward to it. Oh well, maybe next time :)	18:46
@rizen	code freeze is may 31st	18:47
+MrHairgrease	ok thanks	18:47
@rizen	i would love to keep on working on it, but commerce has a looming deadline, so it needs to be my focus	18:48
@rizen	besides, perlDreamer has gotten ahead of me and we can't have that	18:48
+perlDreamer	http://blog.oregonlive.com/nwheadlines/2008/02/dont_get_mad_send_fake_nude_pi.html	18:49
@rizen	this is real?	18:51
+perlDreamer	yup	18:51
@rizen	wow	18:51
@rizen	i'm going to have to see if i can get sarah fired now	18:52
@rizen	using those same tactics	18:52
+perlDreamer	trying to get Sarah fired by sending her nude pictures of yourself won't get her fired	18:52
@rizen	no, by sending nude pictures of sarah to her boss	18:53
@rizen	as if it was coming from sarah	18:53
+MrHairgrease	this one'll prolly have the same effect	18:54
+MrHairgrease	http://www.webgui.org/uploads/3n/_D/3n_DFu2MkHAmDNQ1sYuWtQ/WUC-2007---10-17-07-108.jpg	18:54
+perlDreamer	hanging out with cool euro people won't get her fired	18:57
+perlDreamer	it will get her promoted	18:57
+MrHairgrease	hmm maybe	18:57
+MrHairgrease	anyway	18:57
+MrHairgrease	the cool euro people are heading home	18:58
+MrHairgrease	bbl	18:58
+perlDreamer	good night cool euro person	18:58
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+MrHairgrease	it's only 18.00 hours over here	18:58
+MrHairgrease	nowhere near night	18:58
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+perlDreamer	welcome to the channel, wgGuest71 and carogray	18:59
+perlDreamer	if you have questions, please feel free just to ask them	18:59
+perlDreamer	you don't need permission	18:59
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carogray	This is the first time I have ever found the web	19:11
carogray	GUI	19:11
carogray	IRC channel.	19:11
carogray	I was just in a training WebGUI Live Webinar and asked for help and just like with the TV repairman when I looked today there you were!	19:12
carogray	So it was just a test. -Back to work now.	19:12
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@preaction	25 people today. i think we're setting new records	19:38
@apeiron	wow, that is pretty populous.	19:41
@apeiron	Well, let's be realistic: CIA-40 is a bot, GooeyOfSteel is a bot, and that preaction guy doesn't count.	19:42
@rizen	we were at 26 yesterday	19:42
@apeiron	Ah, and perlbot, too.	19:42
@rizen	i mean this morning	19:42
@preaction	even with those bots, we've had at least two bots in here most days, i've never seen the list this long before. 5 +o is also something we didn't used to have	19:43
@preaction	and somehow i seem to have crashed the smoketest box... not responding to ssh...	19:46
CIA-40	WebGUI: graham * r5490 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Operation/AdSpace.pm): fixed: creating ad spaces was broken	20:19
@preaction	Haarg, was that my changes that broke that?	20:21
@Haarg	yeah	20:21
@preaction	figures...	20:21
@Haarg	creating a new ad space, $adSpace wasn't defined	20:22
@preaction	i'll write some WWW::Mech tests for that operation	20:22
+perlDreamer	I don't know who you are	20:25
+perlDreamer	but you shouldn't be using preaction's nick	20:25
+perlDreamer	He hates WWW::Mech and prefers to use his custom getPage method	20:25
+perlDreamer	that's what gave you away	20:25
+perlDreamer	now scoot, before we tell on you	20:25
@preaction	getPage is from the inside, doesn't require a web server and wouldn't work on the old nightly box	20:26
@preaction	er... would	20:26
@preaction	the new box if i get it working again will let www::mech tests run	20:27
@preaction	as long as we get past the site starter wizard	20:34
+perlDreamer	so what happened to the SSH connection on that box?	20:43
CIA-40	WebGUI: graham * r5491 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (3 files in 3 dirs): preparing for 7.4.25 dev	20:48
CIA-40	WebGUI: graham * r5492 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Operation/AdSpace.pm): fixed: creating ad spaces was broken	20:48
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5493 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (5 files in 3 dirs): finalize names and update docs to match	20:48
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+MrHairgrease	gooeyofsteel help	20:50
+MrHairgrease	what does gooeyofsteel do?	20:50
+MrHairgrease	it is a bot right?	20:50
+perlDreamer	it watches wiki commits	20:50
+perlDreamer	and can also be an eliza-bot to help guide people through debugs, sometimes	20:51
+MrHairgrease	what's an eliza bot	20:51
+MrHairgrease	?	20:51
+perlDreamer	Eliza, the psychiatrist program?	20:51
+perlDreamer	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA	20:52
* MrHairgrease always consults with dr sbaitso		20:52
+perlDreamer	is the Dr also a computer program?	20:54
+MrHairgrease	yeah	20:55
+MrHairgrease	it came with my sound blaster pro back in the day	20:55
+MrHairgrease	i rmember it to be quite fun	20:55
+MrHairgrease	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Sbaitso	20:55
+MrHairgrease	but then again, i was only 10 or 11 or so...	20:55
wgGuest23	hello	21:13
wgGuest23	i have in my site the anonymous registration enable and i have two languages installed, english and spanish	21:14
wgGuest23	when a user create an account the default language assgined is english, how can i change it to spanish?	21:15
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@preaction	wgGuest23, that depends. do you also want the interface for visitors to be spanish?	21:16
wgGuest23	yes	21:16
@preaction	visitor meaning "Anybody not registered with the site"	21:16
@preaction	then change the Visitor user's language	21:16
wgGuest23	i have already done it but i created an account as a new user and the default language is assigned as english	21:21
@khenn	anyone here know a lot about sendmail?	21:39
@khenn	I'm trying to determine how long it might take to send roughly 26,000 emails	21:40
@khenn	hours, days, weeks, etc	21:40
@khenn	it's a very fast server	21:40
@khenn	but sendmail does not run exclusively on it	21:41
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wgGuest23	preaction, i have already done it but i created an account as a new user and the default language is assigned as english	21:50
wgGuest23	preaction, if only change Visitor user's language, when a new user try to create a new account, his/her default language will be the visitor's default language	21:52
@preaction	wgGuest23, exactly. any new user created will have their language set to whatever the Visitor's language is set to. if you want to update existing users, you'll need to do it yourself	21:56
@preaction	wgGuest23, you do it in the Admin Console, Users button. Under the "Profile" tab	21:57
wgGuest23	ok	22:01
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+perlDreamer	how do you manually insert a link into a wiki page on wg.org?	22:42
@preaction	copy the link of the wiki page?	22:50
@preaction	oh	22:50
@preaction	there's no link button in the rich editor?	22:50
+perlDreamer	It's greyed out	22:50
@preaction	you have to select some text	22:51
+perlDreamer	ah	22:51
+perlDreamer	thanks!	22:51
@preaction	i'm timing how long it takes to send 30,000 emails through sendmail on a plainblack dev box. who wants to bet it takes 6 hours?	22:51
@preaction	more? less?	22:51
+perlDreamer	60*60 = 3600	22:52
+perlDreamer	8 hours =~ 30k emails	22:52
+perlDreamer	that's at 1/second	22:52
+perlDreamer	I'll say 3.5 hours	22:52
@preaction	it's doing about 10 every 2 seconds	22:52
@preaction	perlbot math 30000 / 10 * 2 / 60 / 60	22:53
perlbot	1.66666666666667	22:53
@preaction	perlbot math 30000 / 10 * 2 / 3600	22:53
perlbot	1.66666666666667	22:53
@preaction	1.6 hours	22:53
+perlDreamer	edit check, please: http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/setting-the-default-language-on-your-site	22:59
@preaction	does that work? don't you have to edit the Visitor user as well?	23:02
+perlDreamer	I must have missed that in your instructions to wgGuest**	23:02
+perlDreamer	I'll crank up a dev site, since the demo server only speaks english and grabled crap	23:02
@preaction	the second set of instructions was how to modify existing users to change their language as well	23:03
@preaction	nothing wrong w/ garbled crap	23:03
@preaction	i gotta go vote though. wisconsin primary election is today	23:03
+perlDreamer	no, I know lots of people who speak it	23:03
@preaction	and i don't know where my polling place is yet... humph	23:03
+perlDreamer	okay, I'll scroll up and add the other stuff	23:03
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CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5494 /tools/translationserver.cgi: put an export link for each language on the main translation server page	23:32
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+perlDreamer	howdy wgGuest38	23:35
wgGuest38	Does anyone have any suggestions on how to debug this error -- http://webgui.pastebin.org/20295	23:36
wgGuest38	hi perl	23:36
wgGuest38	I did get this error off a windows xp sp2 station	23:37
+perlDreamer	Have you tried doing it on a demo site? demo.plainblack.com	23:37
+perlDreamer	also, which version of WebGUI are you using?	23:37
wgGuest38	no, this error happens when i visit the Workflow op in admin console	23:38
wgGuest38	7.4.24	23:38
+perlDreamer	okay, then please try this :)	23:38
+perlDreamer	go to demo.plainblack.com	23:38
+perlDreamer	create a demo site	23:38
+perlDreamer	log in as admin	23:38
+perlDreamer	and try to manually run the Workflow op in the admin console	23:38
+perlDreamer	that will help us know if it's just your site (config problem) or a core WebGUI problem	23:38
+perlDreamer	on the demo site, you can skip the "Do you want to configure your site and add some default content step"	23:39
wgGuest38	works fine on the demo	23:39
+perlDreamer	Are you using the WRE, or a source install?	23:40
wgGuest38	it's not running them, it's just viewing them -- ?op=manageWorkflows	23:40
wgGuest38	of course i think some of these errors happen when spectre tries to run them	23:40
+perlDreamer	it's quite likely	23:40
+perlDreamer	spectre shares that code with WebGUI	23:40
wgGuest38	it's like the encode method is bad	23:40
wgGuest38	on this platform	23:40
+perlDreamer	it's more like new, or pretty	23:40
wgGuest38	(yes, we're stuck with windoze)	23:40
+perlDreamer	one of them is returning undef	23:40
+perlDreamer	Are you using the WRE, or a source install?	23:41
wgGuest38	wre	23:41
+perlDreamer	which version?	23:41
wgGuest38	0.8.1	23:41
wgGuest38	is it the JSON module that's causing the error you think?	23:41
+perlDreamer	what happens if you go to /data/WebGUI/sbin and run perl testEnvironment.pl --simpleReport	23:41
+perlDreamer	yes, I'm worried about JSON	23:42
+perlDreamer	when the JSON author changed the API, he's caused us about 5 weeks of headaches	23:42
+perlDreamer	but such is life in open source	23:42
wgGuest38	yep, but it's worth it :)	23:42
wgGuest38	i don't see any active bugs for this issue on cpan's RT interface	23:43
+perlDreamer	no, it's only in modules that use it	23:43
wgGuest38	testEnvironment is good	23:43
wgGuest38	looks like i need to do some debugging on JSON module	23:43
wgGuest38	why did you upgrade JSON?	23:44
+perlDreamer	we didn't have much choice, since CPAN will grab the latest and greatest by default	23:44
wgGuest38	oiy, we need to upgrade testEnvironment to allow us to pin versions on required modules	23:45
wgGuest38	thanks for the input; i'll see if i can make any headway debugging JSON; do you know what the encode method is doing?	23:45
+perlDreamer	it's not encode	23:45
wgGuest38	what format is it encoding to? utf?	23:45
+perlDreamer	something isn't passing along an object ref	23:46
+perlDreamer	so the chained method call is failing	23:46
wgGuest38	oh, so it can't call the method	23:46
+perlDreamer	right	23:46
+perlDreamer	it might be "new"...	23:46
wgGuest38	ok, i'll see what i can find out...	23:46
wgGuest38	i'm going to do a test on my linux box to make sure i'm comparing apples-to-apples	23:47
+perlDreamer	good idea	23:47
wgGuest38	will report back	23:47
wgGuest38	tomorrow	23:47
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+perlDreamer	that sounded like someone I should know...	23:48
+MrHairgrease	yeah	23:50
+MrHairgrease	prolly either william or diona	23:50
+MrHairgrease	the wgguest38 came from the same domain as they do...	23:51
@preaction	22000 / 30000 in 1 hour... this is crazy fast	23:55
@preaction	i just wonder how much CPU time its taking. is this something that can happen concurrently with other processes?	23:55
+perlDreamer	what kind of hardware is this?	23:56
+perlDreamer	does it have a hardware TCP-IP engine?	23:56
@preaction	uh... it's one of our entry-level dedicated boxes	23:57
+MrHairgrease	afaik sending much mail uses mainly memory	23:57
+MrHairgrease	not so much cpu	23:57
knowmad	man, am I that obvious!	23:57
+MrHairgrease	yes	23:57
+MrHairgrease	=)	23:57
knowmad	btw, thanks for the help colin	23:57
+perlDreamer	no problem	23:57
@preaction	you know if you ask questions on your normal name, we aren't going to berate you or anything...	23:58
@preaction	much	23:58
+perlDreamer	I can't imagine that JSON would behave differently b/w windows and linux	23:58
knowmad	LOL	23:58
knowmad	i wasn't at my desk	23:58
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knowmad	ahhh!	23:59
@preaction	i predict we're starting to get into the 1:10 talker:lurker ratio. for every 10 people who join, only 1 is going to talk	23:59
+perlDreamer	found it?	23:59
knowmad	actually that may be it. we used CPAN to download the package	23:59
--- Day changed Wed Feb 20 2008
knowmad	however, this is a Winblows box and we don't have a compiler	00:00
knowmad	there is some XS code in there as i recall	00:00
+MrHairgrease	there's also a pure perl implementatiuon	00:00
+MrHairgrease	i guess your windows box uses that one	00:00
knowmad	yes, i did see that as well	00:00
+MrHairgrease	as opposed to the linux wre	00:01
knowmad	so you think it should fallback to using that	00:01
+perlDreamer	knowmad, you can stick a $json->is_xs in there and it will tell you if it is	00:01
+MrHairgrease	(i guess)	00:01
+perlDreamer	(perldoc JSON)	00:01
+MrHairgrease	yeah i guess it falls back to pp	00:01
knowmad	it sounds like you've become quite knowledgeable about this JSON module	00:01
+perlDreamer	unfortunately so	00:01
+MrHairgrease	the json api change was good for nothing i think	00:02
@preaction	nothing except making it more pretty	00:03
knowmad	sounds like it's good for getting more people looking at the API cause it broke so many things	00:03
+MrHairgrease	yeah so good for nothing	00:03
knowmad	seems like he could have deprecated the earlier API for a little while	00:03
@preaction	he did, kinda	00:04
+MrHairgrease	did you read the comment on Config::JSON btw?	00:04
@preaction	objToJson and jsonToObj both work	00:04
@rizen	yeah, but without any params	00:04
@rizen	which is useless for us because we use a bunch of params in most cases	00:04
knowmad	ahh, so rizen is listening	00:05
@preaction	He is always with us	00:05
@rizen	i saw a bunch of bouncing in my doc, so i decided to have a peek	00:05
knowmad	That's a bit scary	00:05
knowmad	since you're here, did you get my last email re: registering?	00:05
@rizen	it's there	00:06
@rizen	just haven't gotten around to it	00:06
knowmad	ok	00:06
@rizen	50+ messages waiting in my inbox	00:06
@rizen	it's been busy this week	00:06
knowmad	only 50, eh? you're doing better than me	00:06
@preaction	does it count if i sent them to myself? i've got 22,000	00:07
@rizen	50 that have gone unresponded i get about 100 per day that i have to respond to	00:07
@preaction	i'm popular!	00:07
+perlDreamer	your ISP is going to kill you	00:07
knowmad	or his boss will	00:07
@preaction	plainblack's mail system is already kinda giving me attitude	00:07
@preaction	but they are still downloading	00:07
+perlDreamer	Hey, is GooeyOfSteel broken?	00:11
+perlDreamer	he didn't register my new wiki page	00:11
+perlDreamer	I feel slighted	00:12
wgGuest23	hello	00:13
wgGuest23	i have enable metadata in the admin console	00:13
wgGuest23	in one of my collaboration system i have wroten a little description but i can see it	00:15
wgGuest23	how does it work?	00:15
wgGuest23	how can i see that description?	00:15
+perlDreamer	wgGuest23: did you check your template to see if the template variable is used or not?	00:17
+perlDreamer	It just might not be set up by default.	00:17
@preaction	i think it's activated by the Show Description property in the Display tab, but i could be wrong	00:18
wgGuest23	i am going to check	00:20
+perlDreamer	preaction: I think you're thinking of displayTitle	00:22
@preaction	probably	00:22
@preaction	if there isn't one, then it's probably not in the template	00:22
@preaction	and did you add a Synopsis on the Metadata tab? or a Description on the Properties tab?	00:22
@preaction	Synopsis may have translated to Description	00:23
wgGuest23	yes, i have added a synopsis	00:23
@preaction	the synopsis isn't used in the templates by default, you'd have to add it	00:24
wgGuest23	in which template?	00:26
+perlDreamer	In the Collaboration System template that you're using	00:27
wgGuest23	ok	00:27
wgGuest23	what is the variable related to synopsis?	00:27
@preaction	The list of template variables are in the Admin Console > Help section	00:28
@preaction	look for Collaboration Template	00:28
wgGuest23	ok	00:29
* preaction teaches men to fish		00:29
+perlDreamer	or, edit your Collaboration System, choose the display tab, and the hit the edit button next to the template that you have selected.	00:29
+perlDreamer	it's a shortcut	00:29
@preaction	not to the help file, that's a shortcut to the template itself	00:30
@preaction	or is there a link on that page to the help file?	00:30
+perlDreamer	no, there should be	00:30
@preaction	if there isn't, that should be a ...	00:30
@preaction	get out of my head!	00:31
* perlDreamer turns up the gain :)		00:31
+perlDreamer	... you ... want ... pizza ....	00:31
@preaction	could we put a namespace => "String", label in a help definition, and then match them up	00:31
@preaction	mmmm... i should call glass nickel and get some pizza.	00:31
@preaction	wait	00:31
@preaction	YOU JERK!	00:31
@preaction	it might be a very long lookup though... unless we cached it somehow	00:32
+perlDreamer	there aren't that many help entries anymore	00:33
@preaction	true, but do you want to look through potentially all of them?	00:33
@preaction	i suppose that editing a template isn't a very common process	00:33
@preaction	caching wouldn't be capital-N NEEDED	00:34
+perlDreamer	there are 6102 i18n labels used in the help, including every entry and ISA's	00:34
+perlDreamer	at 10:1, which is skeptical, that's only 610 entries	00:35
+perlDreamer	not too bad	00:35
@preaction	not bad at all	00:35
@preaction	and some entries won't have namespaces, since they're "common" entries or some-such	00:35
+perlDreamer	it really wants a dynamically generated reverse lookup	00:37
+perlDreamer	that would be very fast	00:37
+perlDreamer	at the cost of a 600 bucket hash	00:37
+perlDreamer	in any case	00:37
+perlDreamer	it's the first step to the template variable editor	00:37
+perlDreamer	so it's needed	00:37
@preaction	indeed	00:37
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wgGuest23	preaction, in collaboration template variables, i don't find any variable related to metadata's synopsis	00:50
@preaction	perlDreamer, do we have any place where global metadata variables are added to all asset template vars?	00:50
+perlDreamer	yes	00:51
@preaction	wgGuest23, it's <tmpl_var synopsis> <- that should work	00:51
+perlDreamer	Asset->processTemplate (I think)	00:51
+perlDreamer	preaction, synopsis is different from metadata	00:51
+perlDreamer	even though it's in the same tab	00:51
@preaction	ah	00:51
@preaction	right	00:51
@preaction	if it's missing from the Collaboration template though, is missing Help a bug?	00:51
+perlDreamer	definitely	00:51
@preaction	wgGuest23, i'd post that on the webgui bugs list: http://webgui.org/bugs	00:52
+perlDreamer	to use metaData as a template variable, you just call it out by name	00:52
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: Setting the default language on your site - Edited on 2/19/2008 4:01 pm by colink http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/setting-the-default-language-on-your-site	00:53
+perlDreamer	<tmplVar myMetaDataname>	00:53
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: Setting the default language on your site - Created on 2/19/2008 2:49 pm by colink http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/setting-the-default-language-on-your-site	00:53
+perlDreamer	GooeyOfSteel: you need to eat more fiber	00:53
nuba	somehow GooeyOfSteel's wikiwatch failed on a HTML::TreeBuilder error	00:53
nuba	when erroring, irssi unloads the script	00:54
nuba	so i just reloaded it	00:54
wgGuest23	perlDreamer, <tmplVar myMetaDataname> should work	00:55
+perlDreamer	yes	00:55
@preaction	vmpl	00:55
@preaction	tmpl_var	00:56
+perlDreamer	yeah, that one. tmpl_var, not tmplVar	00:56
+perlDreamer	I've been building too many method names	00:56
wgGuest23	ok	00:56
wgGuest23	the property in the metadata is summary, so can i use <tmpl_var summary>?	00:58
+perlDreamer	yes	00:58
+perlDreamer	afk for a while	01:00
@preaction	is anyone here who translates WebGUI but doesn't hack on WebGUI?	01:02
@preaction	is a more descriptive "context" useful when you're translating?	01:02
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@preaction	i'm starting to be more verbose with my "context" information	01:03
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+perlDreamer	preaction: more context helps a lot	02:25
+perlDreamer	otherwise, you have to crawl the core code to find it	02:25
@preaction	yeah, that's what i was thinking	02:25
+perlDreamer	the kuskie's have been translating spanish and german	02:25
@preaction	the labels are only useful to programmers really	02:26
@preaction	that could be a way for programmers who are not translators to help out. even if it is boring work	02:29
+perlDreamer	I've found that the shorter a label is, the more context you need.	02:41
+perlDreamer	Longer messages tend to have embedded context.	02:41
+perlDreamer	Single words are hard.	02:41
+perlDreamer	like Add	02:41
+perlDreamer	Is that 1+1	02:41
@preaction	yeah	02:41
+perlDreamer	or "add me to your group"	02:41
+perlDreamer	time to go home and think more about commerce	02:41
@preaction	labels for form fields are usually one word	02:41
@preaction	have fun	02:42
+perlDreamer	I'm starting to think my reorg from last night was wrong	02:42
+perlDreamer	Ship, ShipDriver, ShipDriver::FlatRate	02:42
+perlDreamer	vs Ship, Ship::Driver, Ship::Driver::FlatRate	02:42
@preaction	is Driver a subclass of Ship?	02:42
+perlDreamer	as defined originally, yes.	02:42
+perlDreamer	and the API supports it	02:42
@preaction	then it should be Ship::Driver	02:43
+perlDreamer	I (hastily) proposed the first form	02:43
+perlDreamer	but am not starting to regret it	02:43
+perlDreamer	now starting	02:43
@rizen	why are you regretting it?	02:43
+perlDreamer	because It rips all the guts out of ship	02:43
+perlDreamer	leaving Ship just a dispatch class, like WebGUI::Form	02:43
+perlDreamer	it may not be bad	02:43
@rizen	it's just a package name	02:43
@rizen	it doesn't have to imply anything else	02:44
@rizen	Ship::Driver was never a subclass of Ship anyway	02:44
@rizen	FYI	02:44
@preaction	why do you need the Driver class at all if it just reimplements Ship stuff	02:44
@preaction	Ship::FlatRate Ship::ByWeight	02:44
@rizen	Ship is a factory	02:44
@rizen	Ship::Driver is the base class for all other drivers	02:45
@rizen	it's just an interface	02:45
+perlDreamer	the system is designed like Workflow::Activity	02:45
+perlDreamer	yeah, what he said	02:45
@rizen	it's always good to have a standard interface class	02:45
@rizen	to start from	02:45
@preaction	right	02:45
+perlDreamer	object persistance is done in Ship, or Ship::Driver?	02:46
@preaction	even if Ship is now really really small, it's probably better to have ShipDriver	02:46
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@rizen	ship::driver should persist the stuff i would think	02:47
@rizen	but there is only need for one table	02:47
+perlDreamer	right	02:47
@rizen	Ship is the DBI to ShipDriver's DBD	02:48
@rizen	if that makes any sense to you	02:48
+perlDreamer	some, I need to think more on it	02:48
+perlDreamer	seems strange to have an object class without getters and setters (ShipDriver)	02:48
@preaction	not really. Workflow::Activity doesn't get/set anything	02:49
@preaction	it has instance scratch, sure	02:49
+perlDreamer	but if Ship pulls from the DB and builds the object from the driver, it should be fine	02:49
@rizen	i'm sorry	02:50
@rizen	i said it backwards before	02:50
@rizen	Ship does all the data storage	02:50
@rizen	Ship::Driver is just an engine	02:50
+perlDreamer	yeah, then I do understand it now	02:50
+perlDreamer	we'll need to be careful how long running objects are handled, but it's not bad	02:50
+perlDreamer	catch y'all later	02:52
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nuba	25 nicks, 3 bots, yeah, channel is growing	05:21
@rizen	let's get 100 more bots in here	05:22
nuba	question: whats the smoothest linux to run WRE on?	05:22
+Radix-wrk	you guys need multiple logins too.. like me!	05:22
nuba	im just moving from a freebsd+jail to linux+xen	05:22
nuba	setup	05:22
+Radix-wrk	define 'smoothest'?	05:23
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apeiron__	etc.	05:23
apeiron__	:)	05:23
+Radix-wrk	hehe	05:23
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+Radix-wrk	go apeiron, apeiron_ and apeiron__!	05:23
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+Radix-wrk	Well if you looked carefully apeiron - you'd realise mine are from two different ip's :)	05:24
@rizen	Red Hat Enterprise Linux (or Cent OS) is what PB deploys on	05:24
+Radix-wrk	I'm using centos myself for that reason :)	05:24
nuba	Radix-wrk: smooth as in Haagen Dazs...	05:24
@apeiron	Radix-wrk, Ah yes indeed.	05:24
@rizen	The big deal is that you should go with the linux that you're most comfortable with	05:26
@rizen	cuz the WRE works pretty much the same on all linux distros	05:26
nuba	k	05:26
@rizen	but if you want the one that's best tested cuz it's the most deployed on, then RHEL/CentOS is your best bet	05:26
@apeiron	Or just get a Mac. :D	05:26
@rizen	btw...why are you switching away from freebsd?	05:27
nuba	this is my personal machine, i want to play with xen on it	05:27
nuba	its not like im going away from BSD, but im missing some linux action as well	05:29
nuba	feeling a bit rusty in the linux front	05:30
@rizen	ic	05:30
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+perlDreamer	I'm baaack	06:15
+perlDreamer	you guys are never going to be able to get rid od me :)	06:15
@rizen	like this: http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/dope/imback.html	06:16
@rizen	I'm back to put it in motion	06:16
@rizen	I'm back to tell you no lies	06:16
@rizen	Sit back and sip on this notion	06:16
@rizen	I'm back to put it in drive	06:16
@rizen	Is that how you are?	06:16
@rizen	Cuz i love that song.	06:16
@rizen	Saw those guys in concert. They rocked.	06:17
+perlDreamer	You and me are like Perry Mason and Paul Drake	06:17
+perlDreamer	In fact, you and Sarah should do the Perry and Della thing for Halloween this year	06:17
+perlDreamer	now that she's a brunette	06:17
@rizen	Is paul drake the investigator perry always had working for him?	06:19
+perlDreamer	Yep.	06:19
+perlDreamer	He's the one that gets thumped all the time by the bad guys	06:19
@rizen	Sarah likes that you're already thinking about halloween	06:21
+perlDreamer	I try to look out for you guys	06:21
@rizen	the only problem with your theory is the odd evil factor	06:24
+perlDreamer	Dr. Who isn't evil	06:24
@rizen	every other year my costume is an evil character	06:24
@rizen	and dr who was last year	06:24
+perlDreamer	I see	06:24
+perlDreamer	I'll think about it :)	06:24
+perlDreamer	I'm too short to be Perry	06:24
+perlDreamer	unless Kathy walked around on her knees	06:24
@rizen	the year before last i was one of the butchers from a movie called Hostel	06:25
@rizen	I was thinking about maybe doing Satan Claus this year	06:25
+perlDreamer	You could do the Billy Bob Thornton version	06:26
+perlDreamer	Or the Dean Koontz version	06:27
@rizen	santa suit dyed black, fangs, bloodshot eyes, and instead of a bag of goodies it would be sickle or something like that	06:27
@rizen	i thought about lighting the hat on fire, but that's just too dangerous	06:28
diakopter	black beard/mustache	06:28
@rizen	oh of course, i've already got that growing in	06:29
@rizen	i was also thinking about getting some cool contacts	06:29
+perlDreamer	slit eyes	06:29
@rizen	http://www.9mmsfx.com/lenses.html	06:30
@rizen	my favorite are these: http://9mmsfx.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=9SE&Product_Code=J&Category_Code=SL1	06:30
+perlDreamer	nice	06:33
+perlDreamer	I'm glad you didn't go with the pseudo-user commerce idea	06:45
@rizen	you mean on the black blog?	06:47
+perlDreamer	yeah	06:47
@rizen	that was a no brainer	06:47
@rizen	pd, there's a needed change to the tax system	06:48
@rizen	actually...maybe i better post this to the dev board	06:48
+perlDreamer	I'll hold off on starting the ShipDriver, then	06:51
@rizen	not sure how big of a deal it will be for you to implement, but i just posted	06:54
@rizen	so go take a look	06:54
+perlDreamer	actually, that's no problem (yet)	06:54
+perlDreamer	Without a cart, there's no way to test/build the calculate method	06:55
@rizen	yeah i know	06:55
@rizen	and without a sku i can't build the cart	06:55
+perlDreamer	we just need to be sure that it gets into the design docs	06:56
+perlDreamer	I can do that.	06:56
@rizen	so i'm working on sku, but i have to finish the new WRE first because of the stupid json problem	06:56
@rizen	i'm putting this in the sku design docs	06:56
@rizen	please update the tax docs	06:56
+perlDreamer	the WRE/JSON thing will free up tons of time from lots of people	06:56
+perlDreamer	I'm tired of doing JSON Q/A	06:56
+perlDreamer	no offense to those stuck asking	06:57
@rizen	i know...i hoped to have the new wre out today, but i ran into an apache compile problem	06:57
@rizen	not sure what's going on	06:57
@rizen	it just stopped compiling for no apparent reason	06:57
+perlDreamer	weird	06:58
@rizen	and tomorrow is an accounting day	06:58
@rizen	so i'm won't get to work onit until thursday again	06:58
+perlDreamer	So that makes it Thursday before you can get back to WRE	06:58
@rizen	sorry that i'm lame	06:58
+perlDreamer	Dude, _all_ you have to do is manage several people, do the accounting, run a company	06:58
+perlDreamer	get your plumbing fixed, get your computer fixed	06:58
+perlDreamer	Of course you're lame!	06:59
+perlDreamer	I suppose you'd like to time to sleep and eat, too?	06:59
@rizen	no i stopped both of those long ago	06:59
+perlDreamer	well, that's better	06:59
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5495 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/sku.pod: an override for the default tax rate	07:00
+perlDreamer	docs committed	07:06
+perlDreamer	ShipDriver needs a properties accessor, since we're building with Class::InsideOut	07:15
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@rizen	sorry pd, my computer decided to take a crap	07:24
@rizen	what was it you were asking?	07:24
+perlDreamer	Just realized that ShipDriver will need a properties accessor, since we're building with Class::InsideOut	07:24
@rizen	what does class inside out have anything to do with it?	07:24
+perlDreamer	Shipper has a get method that returns the contents of the ShipDriver object	07:25
+perlDreamer	it won't be able to look inside that object to grab the hash directly	07:25
@rizen	first of all it is never good design practice to do it even if you could	07:27
@rizen	but secondly...i'm still not seeing what data that Shipper would have to read from ShipDriver	07:28
@rizen	What am i missing?	07:29
+perlDreamer	I'm not sure you're missing anything, it's probably me	07:29
@rizen	what method in Shipper would call this new accessor method in ShipDriver?	07:29
+perlDreamer	get	07:29
@rizen	damn it...i was right when i said it earlier today	07:31
@rizen	that get and set methods should be moved to shipdriver	07:32
@rizen	Hold on, i'm confusing myself	07:33
@rizen	crap, now i see why you're so confused by this	07:40
@rizen	i did a piss poor job designing it	07:40
+perlDreamer	Let's talk through the design then	07:40
@rizen	i didn't keep a clear separation between factory and driver	07:40
@rizen	ok starting from scratch	07:40
@rizen	Shipper is supposed to be the factory so it should have methods available to tell you what shipdrivers are available, both configured and unconfigured	07:41
+perlDreamer	www_listShippers	07:41
@rizen	forget www_methods at this point	07:41
+perlDreamer	ok	07:42
@rizen	we're just talking api stuff here	07:42
@rizen	i should be able to say	07:42
@rizen	getDrivers	07:42
@rizen	and getShippers	07:42
@rizen	getDrivers would just give you a list of the available drivers from the config file	07:42
@rizen	getShippers would be configured drivers	07:42
+perlDreamer	okay	07:42
@rizen	it should also have a create method, which it does	07:43
@rizen	but that's really just an easy wrapper for a driver	07:43
@rizen	so that you can do	07:43
@rizen	my $shipper = WG::Shop::Shipper->create(\%params);	07:43
@rizen	the same thing for new	07:44
@rizen	my $shipper = WG::Shop::Shipper->new($id);	07:44
@rizen	which is returning a WG::Shop::ShipDriver object	07:44
@rizen	but it's looking up everything from the id	07:45
@rizen	so you don't have to know it going in	07:45
+perlDreamer	right	07:45
@rizen	similar to what newByDynamicClass in Asset	07:45
+perlDreamer	or User	07:45
+perlDreamer	I want a brand new one, create	07:45
+perlDreamer	I want an existing one, new	07:45
@rizen	exactly	07:45
@rizen	the idea is that as a programmer you only ever load WebGUI::Shop::Shipper and it dynamically creates/loads all of the driver objects for you	07:46
@rizen	so WebGUI::Shop::Shipper is really just a helper class	07:46
+perlDreamer	who does object persistance?	07:47
+perlDreamer	Shipper?	07:47
@rizen	WebGUI::Shop::ShipDriver	07:47
+perlDreamer	okay	07:47
@rizen	the base class for all drivers	07:47
+perlDreamer	so all ship driver specifics get stored in the options column of the driver table, as JSON?	07:48
@rizen	yes	07:48
@rizen	that part is right	07:48
@rizen	it's just in the wrong class	07:48
@rizen	as far as my docs go	07:48
@rizen	let me update the docs	07:48
@rizen	i'll do it now	07:48
+perlDreamer	so delete, getId, get and set all get moved into ShipDriver	07:48
@rizen	yup	07:48
@rizen	i have to update the one for payment drivers too cuz that's also screwd	07:49
+perlDreamer	okay	07:49
@rizen	i'm sorry for screwing the pooch on the description there...it all made sense in my head as i was writing it	07:50
+perlDreamer	It probably didn't help with me suggesting format changes, either.	07:51
+perlDreamer	I'll put on my "chip design" spec reading hat tomorrow, and go through it very carefully.	07:51
@rizen	no that had nothing to do with it	07:51
@rizen	its all about my 28mb head	07:51
@rizen	the commerce system takes about 1 gb of ram to bring it all in at once	07:52
+perlDreamer	It's a big system	07:52
+perlDreamer	and it all has to dance together	07:52
+perlDreamer	and integrate into what we have today.	07:52
@rizen	especially since i'm also taking into account stuff that isn't documented here, because it's part of the future system that we're building twoard	07:52
+perlDreamer	I'm going to get on the stretching board	07:53
+perlDreamer	maybe you could be a physical therapist for Halloween :)	07:53
+perlDreamer	catch you tomorrow, rizen	07:53
@rizen	later	07:53
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CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5496 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/commerce.pod: update tax calculation taking into account tax override on a per product basis	13:21
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5497 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/commerce.pod: add properties accessor to ship driver	13:21
CIA-40	WebGUI: graham * r5498 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/File.pm): fixed: editing file assets is broken	13:21
CIA-40	WebGUI: graham * r5499 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.4.25 release	13:21
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5500 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/ (cart.pod pay.pod commerce.pod shipper.pod sku.pod): fixing pay and shipper docs, and cleaned up special characters in the others	13:21
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5501 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/pay.pod: couple of missing methods	13:21
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5502 /releases/WebGUI_7.4.25-stable: Release 7.4.25-stable	13:21
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SDuensin	Morning.	16:11
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BartJol	morning	16:13
perlmonkey2	morning	16:22
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BartJol	7.5.2 dutch i18n files are updated and comiited to svn	16:30
* SDuensin really needs to upgrade his WebGUI. <sigh>		16:37
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wgGuest91	hello	16:37
BartJol	hi	16:37
BartJol	welcome	16:37
wgGuest91	thanks	16:37
wgGuest91	BartJol, i have the next error with spectre Couldn't execute operation : WebGUI::Operation::VersionTag::www_approveVersionTag. Root cause: Can't call method "getNextActivity" on an undefined value at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/VersionTag.pm line 74.	16:38
wgGuest91	spectre is running, i tested all the sites ok	16:38
perlmonkey2	SDuensin: Can't you just use 'svn update' :)	16:39
SDuensin	perlmonkey2 - I'm chicken. :-)	16:39
BartJol	ah, and if you do a perl spectre.pl --run --debug?	16:39
BartJol	what do you see	16:39
BartJol	(on the server it is)	16:39
SDuensin	My server is in flux. Was hoping to get all my domain shuffling done before I did the WebGUI thing. Taking me forever!	16:39
BartJol	mostly in /data/WebGUI/sbin	16:40
wgGuest91	let's me check	16:40
wgGuest91	if i run spectre perl spectre.pl --run --debug, i don't see any error	16:41
BartJol	and any workflows being executed?	16:42
perlmonkey2	SDuensin: domain shuffling? changing domain names?	16:42
SDuensin	Moving from one registrar to another.	16:42
perlmonkey2	ouch	16:43
wgGuest91	i have 2 workflows suspended	16:43
BartJol	and you tried to start them manually?	16:44
BartJol	supposing you do have 7.4.x or higher	16:44
wgGuest91	yes, i have 7.4.24	16:45
wgGuest91	no, i don't tried to start manually	16:46
BartJol	ah, well you can do that via your site	16:46
BartJol	via the admin console and workflows	16:46
BartJol	or spectre	16:46
BartJol	you should see some suspended workflows	16:47
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BartJol	then you can press run to start them	16:47
BartJol	heya	16:47
wgGuest91	i pressed start to run them but they continue suspended	16:48
* perlmonkey2 needs to find whichever of his neighbors has a HAM radio and cut their power. I'm tired of hearing morse code tapped out in static on my speakers.		16:48
BartJol	mmm	16:48
wgGuest91	they have waiting last state	16:48
BartJol	no screen appearing, saying that it is done?	16:49
wgGuest91	no	16:49
BartJol	well something isn't very good then :)	16:50
BartJol	mmmm let me think	16:50
BartJol	where does the error appear, in the webgui.log file?	16:51
wgGuest91	i have noticed since i upgraded last week certain problem wiht spectre	16:51
wgGuest91	yes	16:51
BartJol	have you tried to do one of the next two things	16:52
BartJol	- fixed: creating new ad spaces is broken	16:52
BartJol	- fixed: editing file assets is broken	16:52
BartJol	because those are fixed in 7.4.25	16:52
wgGuest91	the workflows continues suspended but if i run perl spectre.pl --shutdown and then perl spectre.pl --daemon, perl spectre.pl --status, they don't appear as suspended	16:54
wgGuest91	i wait some seconds and then i run again perl spectre.pl --status and again they are suspended	16:55
BartJol	and do not appear on the site?	16:55
BartJol	oh	16:55
wgGuest91	yes, appear in the site too	16:55
BartJol	well, they have to wait a little while to feel suspended, it's a new row	16:55
BartJol	so that I understand	16:57
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BartJol	I'm checking the api	16:59
wgGuest91	ok	16:59
BartJol	mmm can't find the approve VersionTag activity in the API	17:04
BartJol	that's strange	17:05
wgGuest91	yes	17:07
BartJol	what kind of approval workflow do you use?	17:10
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wgGuest91	BartJol, commit with approval	17:14
BartJol	mmm	17:14
BartJol	if youy set in temporarily to without, are they executed?	17:14
BartJol	but then correct English	17:15
BartJol	brb, have to help a collegae	17:17
wgGuest91	BartJol, i have this warning with spectre and other some assets WebGUI::i18n::Spanish::Spectre failed to compile because Can't locate WebGUI/i18n/Spanish/Spectre.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /data/WebGUI/lib /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.8.8 /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.8 /usr/share/perl/5.8 /usr/local/lib/site_perl . /etc/apache2) at (eval 257) line 2.	17:18
wgGuest91	the error is clear can not locate Spectre.pm in the spanish's folder	17:19
wgGuest91	in that folder i don't have the Spectre.pm	17:20
wgGuest91	where can i obtain that file to put there?	17:21
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wgGuest67	has anyone seen perlDreamer today?	17:23
BartJol	not yet wgGuest 67	17:23
BartJol	well, there are probably quite a few i18n files missing in spanish	17:24
wgGuest67	thanks BartJol. i need some of his expert help with writing tests	17:24
BartJol	sounds familiar	17:24
wgGuest67	cya	17:25
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BartJol	where did you get the i18n?	17:26
BartJol	and when?	17:26
wgGuest91	about one year ago	17:26
BartJol	i18n.webgui.org: Spanish (8.8% Complete)	17:27
wgGuest91	correct	17:27
BartJol	mmm, should default tyo english as far as I know	17:27
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BartJol	I got that error to in the dutch version somehwere I believe	17:28
@preaction	if you want a quick fix, make a file called Spectre.pm in that directory with three lines:	17:31
@preaction	package WebGUI::i18n::Spanish::Spectre;	17:31
@preaction	our $I18N = { };	17:31
@preaction	1;	17:31
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@preaction	that might work, not sure though	17:32
@preaction	it should compile at least, and try to look things up. then when it doesn't find any, it should default to English	17:32
@preaction	what version of WebGUI are you using? that sounds like a bug, or an RFE that wouldn't be too hard to implement	17:32
BartJol	was the transaltion for a 7.3 version? that had no spectre at all as far as I rememeber	17:32
BartJol	he uses 7.4.24	17:33
BartJol	or she	17:33
@preaction	7.3 had spectre, it was added in 6.99 i believe	17:33
wgGuest91	ok	17:33
@preaction	not sure if it had any i18n for Spectre though	17:33
BartJol	yes, but not in the admin console	17:33
@preaction	right	17:33
BartJol	that's what i meant, sorry	17:33
@preaction	a year ago it would've been 7.3 or 7.2	17:34
BartJol	that's what just sprung to my mind	17:34
BartJol	so if you go to i18n, download a translation and install that, it should exist, it is empty however, but should prevent some errors	17:35
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BartJol	or am I mistaken?	17:35
BartJol	it is 7.5.2 currently	17:35
@preaction	it should work, yes	17:35
@preaction	i just worry that the translation wgGuest91 has is more complete than the current. but the current one has removed a lot of stuff from Help	17:36
@preaction	we've also got perlDreamer and his family working on that translation. though any help on it would be appreciated i expect	17:37
BartJol	mm, my spanish is c**p	17:38
@preaction	likewise	17:38
BartJol	Uno serveca por favor	17:38
BartJol	dos mas	17:38
BartJol	tres mas	17:38
BartJol	cerveca probably	17:38
@preaction	one beer please?	17:39
BartJol	exactly, that's all I learned before going to Barcelona	17:40
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@preaction	eh, that's all ya need	17:40
BartJol	but i already vamos a la playa	17:40
BartJol	already knew	17:40
BartJol	hee Joeri	17:40
BartJol	but wgGuest 91 can you let us know what happened after installing a knew language pack?	17:41
BartJol	new	17:42
BartJol	arg	17:42
nuba	BartJol: is that something from the "garbled crap" language pack ?	17:45
nuba	these things you're muttering..	17:45
BartJol	:)	17:45
nuba	we should ask JT to contribute with a Garbled Crap translation	17:46
BartJol	well, why shouldn't I go to the beach and order a beer	17:46
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BartJol	Martin will also be very good at that	17:46
wgGuest91	BartJol, i downloaded the new spanish.tar.gz and put it in the specific folder	17:56
BartJol	ah, progress	17:56
wgGuest91	it is more complete than the last version that i had	17:57
BartJol	well	17:57
BartJol	your version had some other things probably	17:58
BartJol	that's not in this translation	17:58
wgGuest91	ok	17:59
wgGuest91	BartJol, thanks for your help	18:01
BartJol	well, let's hope it helps	18:01
wgGuest91	te debo la cerveza	18:01
BartJol	ah, come to the wuc	18:02
BartJol	if that means you want to give me a beer :)	18:03
BartJol	ask for the Dutch guys...	18:03
BartJol	what happened to your version tags?	18:03
nuba	wgGuest91: si te es posible, escrebe en el wiki lo que aprendiste aqui con BartJol para ayudar otros hablantes de espanol	18:03
nuba	que vengan a tener las mismas dudas que tuviste	18:04
nuba	durante la instalacion de la traducion de WebGUI	18:04
wgGuest91	listo	18:04
wgGuest91	de una	18:05
nuba	yo no lo hago por que tengo toneladas de tarea, y tambien porque espanol no es mi lengua madre	18:05
BartJol	I feel a bit excluded	18:06
wgGuest91	BartJol, the spectre doesn't show me the error again	18:06
BartJol	great	18:07
wgGuest91	i have been checked, and all seems to be ok	18:07
wgGuest91	if i have problems again, i will be ask you	18:07
wgGuest91	thanks again	18:07
BartJol	well, I can't solve everything unfortunately	18:07
BartJol	no problem	18:07
BartJol	my pleasure	18:07
nuba	BartJol: get ready to learn some spanish. I saw in the news the other day that due to fertility differences between the white and the latin population in the US, latinos will be the majority of the US population in about 50 years...	18:08
BartJol	ah, and in the Netherlands?	18:08
BartJol	but some spanish can be usefull	18:08
nuba	by then, we should be at WebGUI 57.0.1-beta	18:09
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BartJol	let's not hope so	18:09
nuba	and WebGUI will be doing whatever it is CMSs do in the future	18:10
nuba	like Collab Assets for people to discuss space hostels	18:11
BartJol	probably also make coffe	18:11
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+perlDreamer	BartJol: Did you get the email with the testing presentation?	18:16
BartJol	i did, thank you	18:16
+perlDreamer	very good	18:16
BartJol	will be studying it tonight	18:17
BartJol	and bring the dev book	18:17
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+perlDreamer	knowmad: You can check the history page in the wiki to see if someone is deleting your attachments.	18:18
BartJol	with the dev book, did you mean the administrators guide	18:18
+perlDreamer	No, the soon to be published Developer's Guide	18:19
BartJol	ah, I don't have that yet then :)	18:19
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BartJol	Martin!	18:27
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CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5503 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/shipper.pod:	18:48
CIA-40	WebGUI: In indented (literal) text, POD markup is disabled, so => can be used	18:48
CIA-40	WebGUI: directly.	18:48
knowmad	perlDreamer: there's been noone else editing the wiki entry and i know that i didn't delete the attachment	18:49
knowmad	i'll update the bug report	18:49
+perlDreamer	well, it's cool that someone isn't hacking your wiki page	18:50
+perlDreamer	but bummer about losing the files anyway	18:50
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CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5504 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Asset.t: add an explicit test for the safe copying of Asset properties inside get	19:03
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5505 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/t/Asset/Asset.t: backport get test	19:03
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5506 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/t/Asset/Asset.t: side porting over new Asset get test from HEAD	19:03
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5507 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/shipper.pod: coupon => shipper table	19:20
@preaction	wait. are you guys going to get commerce into 7.5?	19:21
knowmad	perlDreamer: are you going to be around this afternoon?	19:31
+perlDreamer	yes	19:38
+perlDreamer	preaction: yes, too	19:38
+perlDreamer	I think we have a may deadline?	19:38
knowmad	great, i have some testing questions for you re: JSON	19:38
+perlDreamer	I haven't done much JSON testing, but I'll be happy to chat with you	19:39
knowmad	well, it's more about writing wg tests to expose the bug we're getting in json	19:39
knowmad	the current Workflow.t does not expose the issue on our windoze server	19:39
knowmad	i need to write a Workflow/Instance.t test script	19:39
+perlDreamer	I can talk/help with that	19:39
+perlDreamer	actually, Workflow.t could use a good clean-up refactor itself	19:40
knowmad	great, thanks	19:45
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nuba	for those having issues with spectre, he just joined #wikipedia	20:33
nuba	> spectre [n=spectre@84.120.142.216.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #wikipedia	20:34
nuba	so go there and give him a good beating ;)	20:34
nuba	tell him to stop making fuss over JSON and his gang	20:34
@preaction	a piece of your mind wrapped around a baseball bat, served at high velocity	20:35
@apeiron	preaction, You mean a cluebat?	20:36
+perlDreamer	w00t!	20:49
+perlDreamer	I grok the spec	20:49
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+perlDreamer	dapperedodo: that is some spec, for the Ogone plugin	20:55
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CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5508 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/pay.pod: eliminate references to the coupon table	21:16
+MrHairgrease	can someone please debug me?	21:17
+MrHairgrease	I'm filled to the brim with gooey crap	21:18
* MrHairgrease praises nasal decongestant		21:18
knowmad	sounds like you need an exorcist rather than a programmer	21:18
knowmad	what's up?	21:18
+MrHairgrease	I have this terrible cold	21:19
+MrHairgrease	some stupid bacteria I guess	21:19
knowmad	i thought colds were viral	21:19
+MrHairgrease	I don't care which marketing scheme they use	21:19
+MrHairgrease	=)	21:19
* perlDreamer goes to the gym		21:19
+perlDreamer	Exercise is good for the immune system	21:20
knowmad	if only we had that model	21:20
knowmad	indeed. i'll miss my swim today due to other mtgs (yuck)	21:20
+perlDreamer	;) we do. Program exercise is called tests	21:20
+MrHairgrease	exersize, exorsize who cares =)	21:20
+MrHairgrease	s/s/c/	21:21
+MrHairgrease	what do you do in the gym?	21:21
+MrHairgrease	weightlifting	21:21
+MrHairgrease	tredmilling?	21:21
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CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5509 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/commerce_flowchart.png: added missing line between login and payment options	21:31
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BartJol	ah, was the amount of dutch guys on this channel exceeded again?	21:41
@apeiron	Wow, 30 nicks before dapper left.	21:42
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5509 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/commerce_flowchart.png: added missing line between login and payment options	21:47
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5510 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/shipper.pod: typo on the calculation	21:47
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: WRE-Building - Edited on 2/20/2008 1:49 pm by knowmad http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/wre-building	21:59
perlmonkey2	29 people and rizen isn't even here.	22:02
knowmad	it looks like he's working on the commerce system	22:05
@preaction	praise allah he's working on the commerce system	22:06
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@preaction	apeiron, seriously? YUI 2.5.0 was released TODAY? talk about coincidence :p	23:03
-!- SynQ [n=koen@e97024.upc-e.chello.nl] has joined #WebGUI		23:03
SynQ	nite	23:03
+MrHairgrease	hey koen!	23:04
BartJol	Hee martin	23:04
SynQ	hey martin!	23:04
SynQ	hi bart	23:04
+MrHairgrease	hey bart	23:04
SynQ	the dutch team seizes power	23:04
BartJol	yeay 3 of 29, we're the majority	23:05
SynQ	I feel like the Johan Cruyf of the dutch team	23:05
+MrHairgrease	ah, you like round balls...	23:05
BartJol	the guy who talks a lot, but no one understands him?	23:05
SynQ	that one	23:05
SynQ	:)	23:05
SynQ	there are two sides to this a and b	23:05
SynQ	:)	23:05
BartJol	any json problems anywhere?	23:06
nuba	everywhere	23:06
BartJol	well, it must be a feature then	23:06
+MrHairgrease	specially for koen: http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gi98iEziKQ	23:06
BartJol	that one	23:07
BartJol	how's your cold?	23:07
BartJol	do they still allow you in the clean room?	23:08
+MrHairgrease	everytime i sneeze it makes my eyes water	23:08
nuba	whats the status of the JSON messup? is there a list somewhere of compatible versions for WRE, WebGUI, Config::JSON and JSON ?	23:08
+MrHairgrease	actually i've been there today	23:08
+MrHairgrease	believeme that an itch in your nose is not the nicest way to work with acids...	23:09
nuba	cause thats something that needs to go to a wiki article	23:09
+perlDreamer	nuba: 0.8.2, 7.4.24, 7.5.2, and latest on Config::JSON and JSON	23:09
+perlDreamer	but that's just working for me here, and I don't use the WRE	23:09
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+perlDreamer	MrHairgrease: weight lifting, calisthenics, treadmill, bikes	23:09
nuba	perlDreamer: the latest or the ones recommended in gotcha.txt (which arent the latest iirc) ?	23:09
+perlDreamer	Latest ones from CPAN	23:10
* MrHairgrease will think again before picking a fight with perlDreamer		23:10
nuba	perlDreamer: thx. i dont know how that relates to the WRE, but i think JT said here about hurrying a WRE release because of this JSON issue	23:11
+perlDreamer	I'm a hacker, not a fighter	23:11
+perlDreamer	nuba: yes. It's supposed to include the newest JSON stuff	23:12
@apeiron	preaction, Yeah, today, of all days.	23:12
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SynQ	ok	23:15
SynQ	at least I can see that the dev-list and the black blog are alive and kicking again	23:15
SynQ	so now I'm going to do something really dutch and complain about that :P	23:16
SynQ	it's so hard to read all of it	23:16
SynQ	it takes so much time	23:16
+perlDreamer	is it "dutch" to complain?	23:16
SynQ	but I love that it's alive	23:16
+perlDreamer	I thought americans had a patent on that	23:16
SynQ	no way man	23:16
+MrHairgrease	everybody loves to xcomplain	23:16
SynQ	dutch people are way better in complaining	23:16
+perlDreamer	perlbot: be mjd	23:16
perlbot	<mjd> OMG u r teh gr8est 10x thx k bye!	23:16
CIA-40	WebGUI: graham * r5511 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm: don't write .wgaccess files for world readable storage locations	23:16
SynQ	especially if something costs money	23:17
@apeiron	perlDreamer, You're confusing perlbot with purl unfortunately.	23:17
CIA-40	WebGUI: graham * r5512 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.5.2-7.5.3.pl: remove unneeded .wgaccess files	23:17
CIA-40	WebGUI: graham * r5513 /WebGUI/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt: note .wgaccess changes	23:17
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5514 /tools/translationserver.cgi: fixing a typo colin made	23:17
+perlDreamer	crap!	23:17
+perlDreamer	what did I do this time?	23:17
SynQ	hehe	23:17
@apeiron	The 'be xyz' feature of perlbot doesn't reference specific quotes established for individuals.	23:17
+MrHairgrease	perlbot: be perlDreamer	23:17
perlbot	<perlDreamer> OMG u r teh gr8est 10x thx k bye!	23:17
+MrHairgrease	hahaha	23:17
@apeiron	perlbot, l2rng	23:17
@apeiron	perlbot, be MrHairgrease	23:17
perlbot	<MrHairgrease> Hi, can I paste this very long script I downloaded and let you fix it for me plz??	23:17
@apeiron	perlbot, thanks	23:18
perlbot	If you want to thank us, help out the perl community by sending some money (even if just a couple of dollars) to The Perl Foundation. http://donate.perlfoundation.org/	23:18
SynQ	pff	23:18
@apeiron	^^^ I did it, you can too!	23:18
SynQ	don't get me started on complaining about the perlbot ;)	23:18
@apeiron	Talk to Chris62vw over in #perl.	23:18
+perlDreamer	fist of all, it's not Dutch	23:18
@apeiron	But be prepared to send patches. :)	23:18
+perlDreamer	so that sucks	23:18
+perlDreamer	secondly, it's hard to read and doesn't talk much	23:18
SynQ	what is hard to read?	23:19
+perlDreamer	perlbot	23:19
SynQ	ah	23:19
SynQ	ok	23:19
BartJol	or dutch	23:19
SynQ	you want to learn some practical dutch here on channel?	23:20
+perlDreamer	sure	23:20
SynQ	ok let's start with getting out of bed	23:20
+MrHairgrease	nobody responded?!? can I paste this very long script I downloaded and let you fix it for me plz??	23:20
+MrHairgrease	here it is: http://webgui.pastebin.org/20470	23:20
SynQ	huh	23:20
SynQ	it's 99 bottles of beer	23:20
SynQ	when you are still in bed and don't have the nerve to get up you might say	23:21
SynQ	jezus, is het nu alweer ochtend	23:21
+MrHairgrease	yes but i want it to build my website for me	23:21
SynQ	which translates: jezus, is it morning allready	23:21
+MrHairgrease	so you must fix it because you made webgui	23:21
+MrHairgrease	and webgui makes websites	23:21
+perlDreamer	How do you pronounce it?	23:22
SynQ	ah	23:22
+perlDreamer	does it sound like	23:22
+perlDreamer	iz bet noo all were awk tend?	23:22
BartJol	not too bad	23:23
SynQ	like this: jayzuus, is hit new all weer oogth hint	23:23
BartJol	now you sound like a german, trying to talk dutch	23:23
BartJol	well, our g isn't pronounccable	23:23
@apeiron	Isn't pronouncable or doesn't have a sound?	23:23
@apeiron	They're different. :)	23:24
SynQ	pff	23:24
SynQ	this proves to be harder than I thought	23:24
SynQ	let's start with some simple swearing then	23:24
+MrHairgrease	our g is more a throat sound	23:24
SynQ	'Je moeder!'	23:24
+MrHairgrease	en de jouwe	23:24
@apeiron	It'd be easy but I'm just playing devil's advocate.	23:24
+perlDreamer	so it's a glottal g	23:24
+perlDreamer	I can do that	23:24
SynQ	'	23:24
BartJol	de g also is available in jiddisch	23:24
+MrHairgrease	too bad i don't sp[eak jiddish	23:25
SynQ	'Je moeder!' means that you might be ugly but you'r mom is actually much worse	23:25
BartJol	me neither, but I know they have it	23:25
SynQ	hmm	23:26
SynQ	my wife is calling me	23:26
SynQ	seductively i must add	23:26
BartJol	what is she calling you?	23:26
BartJol	oh	23:26
+perlDreamer	babies	23:26
BartJol	schatje?	23:26
SynQ	If I'd like to come and join her in bath	23:26
SynQ	the bath	23:27
nuba	we need a pastevoice	23:27
nuba	besides the pastebin and the imagebin	23:27
+perlDreamer	koen: you want to have kids when you're young	23:27
SynQ	ok	23:27
BartJol	yeah, and then you vcan learn me spanish	23:27
SynQ	I'm off then	23:27
+perlDreamer	that way, when they jump on you the doctor's bills are smaller	23:27
SynQ	later	23:27
SynQ	~ < hoping for some nice and fertile hours to come :)	23:27
+perlDreamer	no hot baths	23:28
nuba	huh	23:28
+perlDreamer	no tightie whities	23:28
+perlDreamer	and no alcohol	23:28
SynQ	ah well	23:28
SynQ	I'll let you know when we have managed to get pregnant ok	23:29
SynQ	bye for now	23:29
BartJol	that's good for us too	23:29
-!- SynQ [n=koen@e97024.upc-e.chello.nl] has quit ["bath time!"]		23:29
+MrHairgrease	why does koen always put images in my head...	23:32
+MrHairgrease	it's not good for my psyche	23:33
+perlDreamer	cool, download links on the i18n server	23:33
BartJol	I think cantos is jpoining them as well	23:33
+perlDreamer	who is cantos?	23:33
BartJol	the dog	23:33
+perlDreamer	even dogs need baths	23:34
nuba	and some love.	23:34
* MrHairgrease is grossed out		23:36
BartJol	but the percentage on dutch is down to 99.9 again :(	23:36
+perlDreamer	it's only about 10-15 entries, BartJol	23:37
+perlDreamer	should take you very long at all to fix up	23:37
BartJol	but I fixed them today already	23:37
nuba	i wish I knew enough dutch just so I could go there, translate 15 strings, and say "I just finished one translation"	23:37
BartJol	give me the link to the missing ones then	23:38
+perlDreamer	there's 1 thing in Asset_SQLForm	23:38
+perlDreamer	in the edit screen, if you scroll right it gives you the tally 249/250	23:38
BartJol	ah, that darn empty one	23:38
+perlDreamer	that's a bug	23:39
+perlDreamer	I'll look into it	23:39
BartJol	have it fixed a couple of times, but it feels senseless	23:39
BartJol	should i make a bug report?	23:40
+perlDreamer	no	23:40
BartJol	ok	23:40
BartJol	it does come back between versions it seems	23:40
BartJol	well nuba, now it is a luxury, but we worked hard on it	23:41
BartJol	wish I could help you on spanish	23:41
BartJol	but only transalting the words beer and beach doesn't help you very much	23:42
+perlDreamer	fixed in HEAD	23:42
+perlDreamer	fixed in 7.4 branch	23:43
+perlDreamer	fixed in the Commerce branch	23:44
+perlDreamer	that should get them all	23:44
nuba	BartJol: im not working on spanish, just Brazilian Portuguese	23:44
nuba	i think perlDreamer was spending time on Spanish tho	23:44
+perlDreamer	we could really use a native spanish speaker to help with the Spanish translation	23:44
BartJol	mm, I'm even worse at that	23:44
+perlDreamer	who does the German translation?	23:45
BartJol	I think some guys who aren't really active anymore	23:45
BartJol	I forgot the name	23:45
+perlDreamer	BartJol: there are 3 missing from the WebGUI namespace	23:46
nuba	perlDreamer: I can try to get some relatives from Paraguay (spanish speaking country in SA) to check the translation	23:46
+perlDreamer	Me and Peter will keep plugging away at it	23:46
+perlDreamer	We're concentrating on the WebGUI namespace right now	23:46
-!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@casr-dev.fwsm2ppuser.ou.edu] has joined #webgui		23:46
nuba	but they wont know much about webgui or websites in general	23:46
BartJol	it's guiuser : http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/translate_webgui_org	23:48
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BartJol	let's take care of that	23:49
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5515 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_SQLForm.pm: removing empty i18n entry	23:50
+perlDreamer	I don't see any extra pipes in here... (Asset_RichEdit)	23:51
+perlDreamer	there it is	23:52
+perlDreamer	elements subtext	23:52
BartJol	then I don't remember correctly	23:52
+perlDreamer	but it's escaped, so it should be fine	23:52
+perlDreamer	what is HTML encoding for pipe?	23:52
BartJol	I'll look it up	23:52
+perlDreamer	MrHairgrease, german for help == Hilfe ?	23:53
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@3.sub-75-205-19.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		23:54
BartJol	\| or ¦	23:54
+perlDreamer	It works for me	23:55
+perlDreamer	even with the pipe in there	23:55
+perlDreamer	I translated Help, saved and committed	23:56
+MrHairgrease	pd: it is	23:57
BartJol	well, mine went wrong	23:57
BartJol	0 % asset rich edit	23:57
+perlDreamer	Zehr gutt. Vielen danke, mein freund	23:57
BartJol	is it possible that the committed version from this afternoon is put back?	23:58
+perlDreamer	maybe	23:58
BartJol	for you morning	23:58
+perlDreamer	let me check out the SVN copy directly and see what's in there	23:58
+perlDreamer	Do you know how to do that, BartJol?	23:58
BartJol	i will not touch anything	23:58
BartJol	well, i saw 1 typo	23:58
BartJol	corrected it, saved it	23:59
BartJol	and everything is gone	23:59
BartJol	but a checked a fes	23:59
BartJol	few	23:59
+perlDreamer	hm	23:59
+perlDreamer	looks good in SVN	23:59
+perlDreamer	https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/view/translations/Dutch/Dutch/Asset_RichEdit.pm	23:59
--- Day changed Thu Feb 21 2008
BartJol	yes, I comiited it this morning, is it that version, or the current?	00:00
+perlDreamer	that's the latest SVN version	00:01
BartJol	ah	00:01
+perlDreamer	according to this, nothing has been committed in 6 days	00:01
nuba	i wish someone from pb would check if the translation server's setup isnt creating syncing problems	00:01
+perlDreamer	and I did the last commit	00:01
+perlDreamer	from the command line	00:01
BartJol	strange	00:01
BartJol	I commited it today, I swear	00:02
+perlDreamer	I believe you, but it didn't go the SVN server	00:02
nuba	BartJol: the i18n.webgui.org isnt kept in sync with SVN	00:02
BartJol	ah\	00:02
nuba	i18n only gets updated when a new release is out	00:02
+perlDreamer	nuba, maybe y'all are talking about different things	00:02
+perlDreamer	the i18n English reference is only updated on releases	00:02
+perlDreamer	but your translations should be committed when you hit the commit button	00:02
nuba	oh yeah, i got confused for a while, i remember now what the problem would be	00:04
BartJol	but the last 6 days I didn't do very much, so if it can be put back (not a real hurry ) it would be fine	00:04
+perlDreamer	https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/view/tools/translationserver.cgi	00:04
+perlDreamer	there's the source code	00:04
+perlDreamer	see www_commitTranslation	00:04
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5515 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_SQLForm.pm: removing empty i18n entry	00:04
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5516 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_SQLForm.pm: backporting i18n fix	00:04
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5517 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_SQLForm.pm: sideporting i18n fix	00:04
nuba	problem would be in case of conflict between commits coming from the i18n server Vs. changes commited directly to the SVN repo	00:05
+perlDreamer	yes	00:05
* perlDreamer starts to have that old familiar "I've broken something" feeling again		00:05
nuba	since theres no web interface to handle the merge or whatever	00:05
+perlDreamer	let's see if we can summon some help	00:05
+perlDreamer	Haarg: Are you listening perhaps?	00:05
@Haarg	yeah?	00:05
+perlDreamer	Do you have access to the translation server SVN checkout?	00:06
@Haarg	i should, but i haven't looked at how it the translation server at all	00:06
@Haarg	how it works that is	00:06
+perlDreamer	that's okay	00:06
+perlDreamer	last week, I did a huge manual purge of the i18n system, removing old entries programmatically	00:06
+perlDreamer	I think the SVN server checkout is conflicted	00:07
+perlDreamer	and that's blocking all new commits	00:07
+perlDreamer	could you please do a svn status on it?	00:07
+perlDreamer	to check?	00:07
@Haarg	let me finish what i'm doing quick and i'll take a look	00:07
+perlDreamer	thanks, man	00:08
+perlDreamer	I owe you a TeddyWedger	00:08
BartJol	I would appreciate that too	00:08
+perlDreamer	You can buy his drink :)	00:08
BartJol	as long as he drinks along with me, thats fine with me	00:09
BartJol	I have downloaded the tar from this afternoon, if that is helpfull	00:11
+perlDreamer	yeah, untar it and check the see if you can find some file with =====	00:11
+perlDreamer	in it	00:11
BartJol	ok	00:12
nuba	translationserver.cgi <- theres nothing blocking someone from creating a new 'English' translation there	00:14
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+perlDreamer	Even if they did, the English reference translation comes from a different area	00:15
+perlDreamer	but submit a bug with a patch	00:15
+perlDreamer	bummer	00:15
+perlDreamer	someone deleted the Garbled Crap translation	00:16
BartJol	Binary file ./Dutch-7-5-2.tar.gz matches	00:16
BartJol	that's on ==	00:16
+perlDreamer	do this:	00:16
+perlDreamer	tar zxf Dutch-7-5-2.tar.gz	00:16
+perlDreamer	cd Dutch/Dutch	00:16
+perlDreamer	grep -l '======' *.pm	00:17
BartJol	is that a pipe or an l?	00:18
BartJol	both give nothing anyway	00:18
+perlDreamer	it is lower case L	00:18
+perlDreamer	hm	00:18
+perlDreamer	we'll have to let Haarg clue us in then	00:19
@Haarg	i'm not seeing any conflicts in the checkout	00:19
+perlDreamer	Something's not letting commits work	00:19
+perlDreamer	can you try a commit of...	00:19
+perlDreamer	German/German/Asset_RichEdit.pm	00:20
BartJol	me or Haarg	00:22
+perlDreamer	Haarg, but maybe we should just append new info to the bug and wait 'til he has more time to look at in depth	00:23
BartJol	well we'vegot the almost complete tar (except the 3 webgui namespace parts)	00:24
BartJol	so I'm not in a hurry	00:24
@Haarg	manual commit seems to have worked	00:25
+perlDreamer	it must be a bug in the app then	00:26
+perlDreamer	thanks, Haarg. We'll either append to the current bug or start a new one	00:27
BartJol	can it be tjhat the app sees some of the translation as part of the coding?	00:27
BartJol	shall I put the messages that I tried to edit in the bug report?	00:28
+perlDreamer	yes	00:28
BartJol	ok	00:28
@Haarg	it's an ssl problem	00:30
@Haarg	the environment apache is running under isn't finding the correct certs or something	00:30
BartJol	but why does it only go awry in the richedit asset?... seems strange to me\	00:32
BartJol	but what do I know about this	00:32
@Haarg	you are able to commit other things?	00:32
BartJol	hadn't had any problems with that, as far as I know	00:33
BartJol	and I do remember some problems with this asset on our old i18n server	00:33
+perlDreamer	Haarg, I don't think anythings' been committed for a long time	00:34
+perlDreamer	https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/log/translations/	00:34
@Haarg	yeah, that's what it looks like	00:34
+perlDreamer	It would be good if it told you whether or not the commit was successful	00:36
+perlDreamer	right now it's blind	00:36
@preaction	what if the translation server itself doesn't have the right credentials?	00:41
BartJol	but now I see 2 bugs	00:41
BartJol	1 committing to svn is broken	00:42
BartJol	2 asset rcih edit empties itself after savinf	00:42
BartJol	I think they're not the same	00:42
+perlDreamer	one problem at a time	00:49
BartJol	I know, just analysing	00:49
BartJol	but I think I should go to bed shortly	00:50
BartJol	if you need the dutch tar for anaythin: it's here http://www.webgui.nl/uploads/3B/OD/3BODhxWYg5z7MgOQ1g_jqA/Dutch-7-5-2.tar.gz	00:51
+perlDreamer	thanks, man. Go crash out now	00:51
BartJol	thanks	00:51
BartJol	good day to you	00:52
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@Haarg	fixed the ssl issue	00:56
+perlDreamer	Let me try a web based commit	00:56
+perlDreamer	yup, it works!	00:57
+perlDreamer	Thanks, Haarg	00:57
+perlDreamer	This also may close out a bug from guiuser	00:57
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@apeiron	(silent failures)--	01:11
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CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5518 /translations/German/German/ (WebGUI.pm Macro_SpectreCheck.pm Asset_RichEdit.pm Friends.pm): update_from_translation_server	01:42
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5519 /translations/RedNeck/RedNeck/ (Asset.pm AdSpace.pm WebGUI.pm Macro_SpectreCheck.pm): update_from_translation_server	01:42
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5520 /translations/Spanish/ (10 files in 2 dirs): update_from_translation_server	01:42
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+perlDreamer	it's been a good day rizen	02:40
+perlDreamer	we fixed the translation server	02:40
+perlDreamer	it hadn't been committing for months	02:41
@rizen	who's we?	02:41
+perlDreamer	me, BartJol and Haarg	02:41
@rizen	cool	02:41
+perlDreamer	knowmad is going to write tests for Workflow::Instance to expose the JSON bug	02:41
+perlDreamer	koen is going to take a bath with his wife	02:42
+perlDreamer	not much commerce work today, lots of reading and thinking	02:42
@rizen	i got a bunch of accounting and filing done...not too glamorous there i'm afraid	02:42
+perlDreamer	but you gotta do it	02:42
@rizen	did the new spec make more sense?	02:43
+perlDreamer	oh yeah	02:43
@rizen	i'm really sorry about that	02:43
+perlDreamer	It's okay man	02:43
@rizen	i don't know where my head was at	02:43
+perlDreamer	sometimes we goof up specs	02:43
+perlDreamer	sometimes we break the translation server	02:43
+perlDreamer	by forgetting my :/	02:44
+perlDreamer	in any case, I have a prototype design worked out in my head	02:44
+perlDreamer	so it's time to write tests and code	02:44
+perlDreamer	but first, I have to help a scared 8-year old learn how to swim	02:45
@rizen	ooh	02:45
@rizen	i've done that before	02:45
@rizen	it's fun and also very wet	02:45
+perlDreamer	swim? or teach ?	02:45
@rizen	taught my neices how to swim	02:45
+perlDreamer	he knows how to swim, but he's scared of when he can't touch	02:46
+perlDreamer	it must be genetic :)	02:46
+perlDreamer	any case, I'll let you know how it goes	02:46
+perlDreamer	catch you later	02:46
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@rizen	man, yui just keeps getting cooler and cooler	04:43
nuba	why, big badass feature freeze?	04:44
@rizen	pretty soon i might have to write YuiDesktop to show SD why ZKDesktop sucks	04:44
@rizen	huh?	04:44
@rizen	they put out a new release today	04:45
@rizen	2.5	04:45
nuba	>cooler and cooler	04:45
nuba	i know	04:45
@rizen	ah	04:45
@rizen	sorry, too tired to get a joke	04:45
nuba	can imagine that	04:45
nuba	you said earlier, "accounting day"	04:49
nuba	i once had to hack on a ISP billing app, thats one of the most traumatic experiences I ever had. It exposed me a bit to accounting, enough to make me want as much distance from it as possible.	04:50
@rizen	hehe	04:53
@rizen	accounting wouldn't be so bad if it were real math	04:53
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-!- bar is now known as kd		04:54
@rizen	but unfortunately simple arithmetic doesn't apply once you start dealing with concepts like depreciation and tax shelters	04:54
knowma1	oh man, you're making my head hurt just talking about it.	05:02
knowma1	see ya'll tomorrow	05:02
@rizen	sorry	05:02
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nuba	heh, you want headache? I didnt even start talking about the hairy and hosed custom dialup billing app that I had to make work with the ISP billing app..	05:04
nuba	oh, hes gone.	05:05
nuba	that was smart ;)	05:05
nuba	anyone watching the eclipse ?	05:08
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5521 /translations/RedNeck/RedNeck/Asset_Collaboration.pm: update_from_translation_server	05:17
@rizen	not much of an astronomy junkie, and it's too bright downtown for me to appreciate just how dark it is without the moon.	05:20
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CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5522 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Asset/Sku.pm designdocs/sku.pod t/Asset/Sku.t): Made a little progress on the sku tests and base class.	05:32
@apeiron	nuba, Unfortunately far too much light pollution in my area as well.	05:36
nuba	just watched it for a while, it was nice	05:48
nuba	now off to bed, 'night guys	05:49
@apeiron	Night.	05:50
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+perlDreamer	hola, preaction	06:30
@preaction	holla!	06:31
@preaction	i hate computers!	06:31
@preaction	they will all be destroyed by my hands	06:31
+perlDreamer	BSD problems, still?	06:32
@preaction	reduced into their constituent atoms and then fed to third-world children as they are trained to be mentats	06:32
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5523 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Shop/ShipDriver.pm: Stubbing for ShipDriver.pm	06:32
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5524 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Sku.pm: took Sku a bit further	06:32
@preaction	no. bought a new mac mini, tried to set my display resolution to something better suited to the HDTV i have, and BAM. no warning, no confirmation, no way to go back, i can't see anything	06:32
+perlDreamer	"Even my name is a killing word"	06:32
@preaction	so now. 3 hours later, i have VNC running on the mac mini and using my lappy to administrate it	06:33
+perlDreamer	go rizen go!	06:33
@rizen	preaction you're so ridiculous	06:33
@preaction	wtf ridiculous? i'm downright pissed off	06:33
@rizen	i can't believe you didn't have all that stuff set up on your mac mini before you started dicking with it	06:33
@rizen	what kind of administrator are you?	06:34
@rizen	perlDreamer, i just made up for the fact that i had an accounting day	06:34
@rizen	Sku.pm is now almost completely written	06:34
@rizen	as are it's tests	06:34
+perlDreamer	very cool	06:35
@rizen	now i feel like i actually got something done for once	06:35
@rizen	but my brain hurts, so i think i'm calling it early tonight	06:35
@rizen	sorry preaction, didn't mean to piss you off	06:35
+perlDreamer	any of you in the channel who are lurking	06:36
@preaction	not you, this is the second computer and we're going on 30 hours trying to get this working	06:36
+perlDreamer	We dearly need people to help with translating WebGUI into other languages	06:36
+perlDreamer	we have a nice, easy CGI based translation system	06:36
+perlDreamer	i18n.webgui.org	06:36
@preaction	i've now spent almost 1200, and i'm now thinking that it's the durned TV that's the problem	06:36
@preaction	which will set me back $800	06:36
@rizen	sorry to hear that	06:37
@rizen	you've been to my house, clearly the mac mini can switch to HD sized resolutions	06:37
@preaction	exactly	06:37
@rizen	then again i think my tv cost $4k	06:38
@rizen	so i'd be really pissed if shit didn't work with it	06:38
@preaction	windows has a 1280x720 resolution that works, too. but the TV only reports itself capable of 640x480 - 1024x768 when using DVI	06:38
@preaction	lesson one: Never buy iLO tvs.	06:38
+perlDreamer	iLO?	06:38
@preaction	exactly	06:38
@preaction	they don't have a website, nobody online seems to know what they are	06:38
+perlDreamer	is that a brand?	06:39
@rizen	perlDreamer, nice pitch...we need to get more people on that	06:39
@preaction	yes	06:39
@preaction	if you could call it that	06:39
+perlDreamer	You see, I have an advantage here	06:39
@rizen	ok guys, have a good nite	06:39
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+perlDreamer	If it doesn't have maxim chips in it, I don't buy it	06:39
+perlDreamer	that way I know exactly what sucks and what doesn't	06:39
@preaction	maxim?	06:40
@preaction	hmm	06:40
+perlDreamer	today I ran for 18 minutes, rode exercise bike for 20 minutes, and taught swimming for 30 minutes	06:40
+perlDreamer	Yeah, I work for maxim.	06:40
+perlDreamer	Want to see the specs for one of my chips?	06:40
@preaction	would you have some idea of brands? polaroid? sony?	06:40
+perlDreamer	we sell lots to sony	06:41
+perlDreamer	http://datasheets.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/DS2703.pdf	06:41
+perlDreamer	That's a parasite powered hardware SHA-1	06:42
+perlDreamer	and one of the only actual implementation of a WOM	06:42
@preaction	write-only memory?	06:42
+perlDreamer	yeah	06:43
+perlDreamer	there are areas that the user can only write to, but never read from	06:43
+perlDreamer	It used to be one of the biggest jokes	06:44
+perlDreamer	RAMs, ROMs, and a WOM	06:44
+perlDreamer	do Asset properties really have to be an Ix::Hash?	06:45
@preaction	they don't have to be, but then the order displayed in the form gets messed up	06:45
+perlDreamer	good point	06:46
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CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5525 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (3 files in 3 dirs): definition method for ShipDriver, with tests	07:31
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@apeiron	Why would you want ... doh.	07:44
@apeiron	Damn people and their whole "going to sleep" thing.	07:44
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5526 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Shop/ShipDriver.pm: add pod	07:47
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: How To Give WebGUI Your Own Style - Edited on 2/20/2008 11:50 pm by tavis.parker http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/how-to-give-webgui-your-own-style	08:01
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CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5527 /translations/Spanish/Spanish/Icon.pm: update_from_translation_server	09:59
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SDuensin	Morning all.	16:05
knowmad	G'day	16:07
+MrHairgrease	hi	16:07
knowmad	hey MHG; you feeling any better yet?	16:08
+MrHairgrease	i was	16:08
SDuensin	Man, everyone is sick.	16:08
+MrHairgrease	but now i'm html-ing	16:08
+MrHairgrease	so it's going downhill again...	16:09
knowmad	yes, i understand	16:09
knowmad	i have people for that these days :)	16:09
+MrHairgrease	not sick, just filled to the brim with slimy crap	16:09
+MrHairgrease	we have too	16:09
+MrHairgrease	but those people apparently have the right to go on hollidays	16:10
+MrHairgrease	it isn't fair	16:10
knowmad	not when you have to stay at work with slimy crap as well	16:10
knowmad	you need to move to the States; the little bit of holiday we have is often unused in our rush to "just do it"	16:11
knowmad	that way your people wouldn't leave you	16:11
+MrHairgrease	thanks for the suggestion, but I'm staying in the Netehrlands	16:13
+MrHairgrease	I'll cope with the occasional html crap	16:14
knowmad	yeah, you guys know how to take a vacation	16:14
+MrHairgrease	indeed	16:14
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GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: Getting Started in the WebGUI Community - Edited on 2/21/2008 9:18 am by tavis.parker http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/getting-started-in-the-webgui-community	17:29
@preaction	would it be good to have a ^ParentAsset(); macro that got properties from the current asset's parent?	17:42
@rizen	for what purpose?	17:42
@rizen	not saying no, just would like to know the intended use	17:43
@preaction	steve just messaged me about a client who wanted a template to have a "Go Back" link that pointed to the parent's URL	17:43
@preaction	so ^ParentAsset(url);	17:43
@rizen	that wouldn't work	17:44
@rizen	a macro has no context	17:44
@rizen	so it doesn't know what the current asset is let alone the parent	17:45
@preaction	it would have to be $session->asset->parent->get('url'); # which could lead itself to certain problems, admittedly	17:45
@rizen	it could try to pull $session->asset but that's not guaranteed to exist	17:45
@preaction	but no worse than ^PageUrl(); or ^PageTitle;	17:45
BartJol	well, you can defaultly give the <tmpl_var url> as an obligated variable	17:46
BartJol	that's what I did	17:46
BartJol	it is a lousy solution, I know	17:46
@rizen	the page macros are there for historical consideration	17:46
@preaction	eh. steve said he's going to use a navigation for it, so he's got another solution	17:47
@preaction	was just thinking it was a bit of overkill	17:47
+MrHairgrease	a nav would suffer from the same 'problem'	17:47
BartJol	norton anti virus has all kinds of problems	17:54
@rizen	i guess you're right	18:07
@rizen	preaction, if you want to make the macro, you're welcome to it	18:07
@rizen	and you can put it in the core	18:07
@preaction	i'll add the appropriate docs in the wiki about its limitations	18:08
@preaction	after i figure out how to tweak sendmail to peel through 30,000 emails a bit faster than 2 and a half days	18:08
@rizen	preaction, the problem isn't really sendmail	18:12
@rizen	it's the servers you're sending to	18:12
@preaction	yeah, that's why i'm looking at timeouts	18:12
@rizen	the only way to overcome it is to have sendmail running lots of additional processes so it can be simultaneously sending 100 or more emails	18:12
@rizen	don't do timeouts	18:13
@rizen	you'll get blacklisted	18:13
@rizen	that's one of the new tests that mail servers are using for spam bots	18:13
@preaction	right, spamd does that	18:13
@rizen	lots of spam bots will give up if the mail server doesn't respond quickly	18:13
@rizen	so mail servers make them wait for 60 seconds or more	18:13
@preaction	which i should know, as i just got spamd running on my network. spam is down to 5% of what it used to be	18:13
@rizen	ok then	18:14
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@preaction	i've got 25 sendmails running, loads at 2.5 so i don't want to up that number any more	18:14
@rizen	look into seeing if sendmail can be configured to send more messages simulataneously	18:14
@rizen	actually do it	18:14
@rizen	put it up to about 50	18:14
@preaction	k	18:15
@rizen	or a load of 5	18:15
@rizen	if it shows a good bump then we can have them invest in a new server just for sending out emails	18:15
@rizen	cuz then we can have the load up to whatever we want without affecting anything	18:15
@preaction	if we suggest that, they've got "listserv" boxes. dunno if we could configure them to just be sendmail relays. the boxes / service is apparently free for them	18:16
@rizen	then why the hell are we wasting time on this?	18:17
@preaction	if they could just be sendmail relays, that would be ideal. they'd get the configurability of their WebGUI apps, with the speed of a seperate box	18:17
@preaction	the listserv isn't as configurable as our application for the mailing out	18:17
@rizen	well have frank ask them if they can be set up as sendmail relays	18:18
@preaction	sounds good	18:18
@rizen	i assume we don't have direct access to these?	18:18
@preaction	don't know. and frank's out running errands right now, so we'll know later	18:19
@preaction	going a LOT faster now, and loads holding at 3.5 with 30/50 sendmail processes being used	18:20
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: Getting Started in the WebGUI Community - Edited on 2/21/2008 10:15 am by colink http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/getting-started-in-the-webgui-community	18:26
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@preaction	perlbot math 2000 / 3600	18:29
perlbot	0.555555555555556	18:29
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CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5528 /wrebuild/wre/ (docs/changelog.txt lib/WRE/Site.pm sbin/addsite.pl):	19:02
CIA-40	WebGUI: - Added an option when creating sites to specify a custom database name.	19:02
CIA-40	WebGUI: Thanks to Wes Morgan for the patch.	19:02
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5529 /wrebuild/wre/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Changed modproxy configs to pass file privilege checks through to WebGUI.	19:02
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@preaction	Haarg, are you doing the release yet? i've got a small change i want to get in: Steve finished the icons for the Gallery	19:43
@Haarg	it'll be a bit, i've been upgrading a server	19:43
@preaction	k. i'll let you know when i'm done, should be no more than 20 minutes	19:44
@apeiron	rizen, Looks like someone else had your Halloween idea: *** SatanClaus n=SatanCla@unaffiliated/satanclaus has joined #perl	19:49
CIA-40	WebGUI: meatbop * r5530 /WebGUI/www/extras/assets/ (6 files in 2 dirs): New Icons for Photo Gallery	19:49
@rizen	it's not an original idea...it's from a movie called The Last Boyscout	19:49
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@preaction	Pro Tip: Mplayer is a good media player, but VLC is better: it works with the apple remote	20:13
@preaction	Haarg, sorry to interrupt you again, but i've hit a snag and will take a bit longer, but this needs to be fixed in 7.5.3 (people can't add Albums to the Gallery)	20:15
@Haarg	no problem, just let me know when you are finished	20:16
@rizen	wahfrekinhoo	20:17
@rizen	figured out why apache stopped building	20:17
@rizen	now...does anybody here know if you can do a regex match in a bash script?	20:18
@rizen	i have this	20:18
@rizen	if [ `uname -r` == "9.1.0" \| `uname -r` == "9.2.0" ]; then	20:18
@rizen	i want to do this	20:18
@rizen	if [ `uname -r` =~ "^9." ]; then	20:19
@preaction	use perl to do it? otherwise you might have to use sed	20:19
@preaction	like if [ `perl whatever` == "9" ]	20:19
@preaction	cut	20:19
@preaction	use cut instead	20:19
@rizen	cut?	20:19
@preaction	cut -c 1	20:19
@rizen	is cut available on all *nix systems?	20:19
@preaction	`uname -r \| cut -c 1` may work	20:19
@rizen	neaver heard of it before today	20:20
@preaction	yes, it's one of those old-old utils	20:20
@preaction	4.2BSD probably	20:20
@rizen	suit	20:20
@rizen	sweet	20:20
@rizen	that rocks	20:20
@preaction	actually System III UNIX	20:20
@preaction	very nearly pre-historic ;-)	20:20
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CIA-40	WebGUI: doug * r5531 /WebGUI/ (8 files in 5 dirs):	20:49
CIA-40	WebGUI: More Gallery i18n	20:49
CIA-40	WebGUI: fix: Add an Album link now appears on Gallery List Albums view	20:49
@preaction	Haarg, i'm finished, those things are fixed now	20:50
@Haarg	ok, thanks	20:50
@Haarg	hmm	20:51
@Haarg	am i wrong or does this:	20:51
@Haarg	RewriteRule ^/(.*) http://%{HTTP_HOST}:8081/$1 [P]	20:52
@Haarg	mean you could proxy any thing on port 8081	20:52
@Haarg	since host is sent by the browser	20:52
@preaction	what do you mean by anything?	20:52
@preaction	apache is bound to 8081, so only apache will use it	20:53
@preaction	but if apache thought the HTTP_HOST actually resided on a completely different IP, fun things could happen	20:53
@Haarg	i mean you can send slashdot.org as the host, and it would proxy to slashdot.org:8081	20:53
@preaction	you mean an open proxy	20:53
@preaction	hmm	20:54
@Haarg	vhosts default to the first one if there isn't a matching servername/alias	20:54
@Haarg	you wouldn't be able to proxy arbitrary websites because of the port, but it still seems wrong	20:55
@preaction	we don't even need the whole rewriterule part. it might be better do to ProxyPass / 127.0.0.1; and ProxyPreserveHost On	20:56
@preaction	the proxypass sends any request for / to 127.0.0.1:8081 (forgot the port)	20:56
@preaction	and the preservehost makes apache forward the Host: header directly	20:57
@preaction	all RewriteRule ... [P] does is make ProxyPass configurable with mod_rewrite. we don't need that kind of flexibility since any request that makes it to ProxyPass has already failed all the other checks	20:59
lisette	hi	20:59
@rizen	ProxyPass doesn't work with the rewrite rules	21:00
@rizen	the rewrite rules all take precidence	21:00
lisette	how to do a macro that do a query in a database different of webgui	21:00
lisette	?	21:00
@rizen	like this lisette	21:01
@preaction	so once it goes through a single rewriterule, proxypass won't get called? that's lame	21:01
@rizen	my $db = WebGUI::SQL->connect("DBI:mysql:someotherdb", $user, $pass);	21:01
lisette	thanks	21:01
@rizen	preaction: you're welcome to try it, but i dinked around with it for quite a while and couldn't make it work	21:02
@Haarg	i would think if it didn't get caught by any rewrite rules it would fall through to alias/redirect/proxypass	21:02
@rizen	but perhaps i was just a moron	21:02
@rizen	regardless though	21:03
@rizen	that doesn't solve the problem	21:03
@rizen	cuz then it will pass on 127.0.0.1 and not pass the host through	21:03
@rizen	so modperl won't know what site to serve up	21:03
@preaction	no, that's what ProxyPreserveHost On does	21:03
@rizen	oh	21:04
@rizen	sorry, wasn't familiar with that	21:04
@preaction	so 127.0.0.1 would get a Host: slashdot.org and go "yeah, no."	21:04
CIA-40	WebGUI: doug * r5531 /WebGUI/ (8 files in 5 dirs):	21:04
CIA-40	WebGUI: More Gallery i18n	21:04
CIA-40	WebGUI: fix: Add an Album link now appears on Gallery List Albums view	21:04
CIA-40	WebGUI: doug * r5532 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/ (packages-7.5.3/gallery-templates.wgpkg packages-7.5.3): added the new templates to fix the Add an Album button not showing up	21:04
@Haarg	well, not really	21:04
@Haarg	it would just default to the first <VirtualHost>	21:05
@rizen	so the net result would be exactly the same	21:05
@Haarg	but that's not a problem. better than proxying random websites.	21:05
@rizen	oh nevermind	21:05
@rizen	cuz it would still be pointing to 127.0.0.1	21:05
@Haarg	yeah	21:06
lisette	and how to do a query to database diferent of webgui?	21:39
lisette	same with y @identifier = $session->db->buildArray($sql);?	21:41
@rizen	no you created a database object in the previous example i gave you	21:43
@rizen	so you use that	21:43
@rizen	my @data = $db->quickArray($sql);	21:43
@rizen	like that	21:43
lisette	ok	21:43
lisette	thanks	21:43
@rizen	np	21:43
@rizen	don't forget to $db->disconnect; at the end of your macro.	21:44
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5533 /translations/French/French/ (61 files): update_from_translation_server	21:47
lisette	if the query is a insert statement, then execute?	21:53
lisette	then is execute?	21:53
@rizen	you could do $db->prepare($sql); $db->execute(\@params);	21:53
lisette	thanks	21:54
@rizen	or you can just do $db->write($sql); as well	21:54
@rizen	$db->write($sql, \@params);	21:54
@rizen	lisette, what is your native language?	21:54
lisette	spanisj	22:01
lisette	h	22:01
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5534 /translations/French/French/ (Macro_LoginToggle.pm Macro_a_account.pm Macro_r_printable.pm): update_from_translation_server	22:03
@rizen	Have you thought about helping translate WebGUI into Spanish? We could really use your help.	22:04
@rizen	can anybody tell me why this isn't working	22:17
@rizen	http://webgui.pastebin.com/m39b1b69f	22:17
@rizen	i'm trying to regex across multiple lines	22:17
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5535 /translations/French/French/ (8 files): update_from_translation_server	22:19
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5536 /translations/French/French/Macro_GroupText.pm: update_from_translation_server	22:19
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@preaction	rizen, is it matching? perhaps instead you could put the replace string into a variable so it's not so messy inside the regex. i think /x makes the engine ignore all whitespace (so you have to use \s, not just " ")	22:23
@rizen	i got the answer on the perl forums	22:31
@rizen	s{RewriteRule\s+\^/uploads/\s+-\s+\[L\]}	22:32
@rizen	needed to replace the spaces with \s+	22:32
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lisette	rizen, no works, there a error with dbi:driver	22:34
lisette	dbi: driver	22:34
@rizen	oh sorry, there was supposed to be a $session in there	22:37
lisette	yes	22:37
@rizen	my $db = WebGUI::SQL->connect($session, "DBI:mysql:somedb", $user, $pass);	22:37
@rizen	lisette: Have you thought about helping translate WebGUI into Spanish? We could really use your help.	22:38
@rizen	http://translate.webgui.org	22:39
lisette	yes	22:40
lisette	i know is i18.webgui.org	22:41
lisette	is the same?	22:41
lisette	Can't connect to data source '' because I can't work out what driver to use (it doesn't seem to contain a 'dbi:driver:' prefix and the DBI_DRIVER env var is not set) at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm line 322	22:46
lisette	Can't connect to data source '' because I can't work out what driver to use (it doesn't seem to contain a 'dbi:driver:' prefix and the DBI_DRIVER env var is not set) at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm line 322	22:46
@rizen	yup they are the same site	22:47
@rizen	could you paste the line of code you are using to connect to the database?	22:47
@rizen	that way i can diagnose why you are having a problem	22:47
lisette	my $db = WebGUI::SQL->connect($session, "DBI:mysql:www_example_data");	22:50
lisette	the user is root and don't have a password	22:50
@rizen	you need to put the username in there	22:52
@rizen	my $db = WebGUI::SQL->connect($session, "DBI:mysql:www_example_data", "root");	22:52
@rizen	but i would never recommend using a user without a password	22:52
@rizen	you're just waiting to get hacked	22:52
lisette	ok	22:54
lisette	this works, but now the error is Can't locate object method "execute" via package "WebGUI::SQL"	22:54
@rizen	could you please put your whole macro code into a pastebin ( http://webgui.pastebin.com/) so i can look it over and tell you where the problem is?	22:55
lisette	http://webgui.pastebin.com/m5d327922	22:56
@rizen	ok i kind of screwed you up there a bit too cuz i was in a hurry	22:57
@rizen	give me a sec	22:57
@rizen	http://webgui.pastebin.com/d64034ba1	22:58
@rizen	when you do a prepare it creates a new object	22:58
@rizen	which i put into $statement	22:58
@rizen	also execute() accepts an array reference	22:59
lisette	(\@params)	22:59
@rizen	yup	22:59
lisette	then in @params put $id and $date	22:59
@rizen	that's why i wrapped your params into [ ]	22:59
@rizen	no you don't need to create an array	22:59
lisette	ok	22:59
@rizen	you can create an anonymous array reference just like i did	23:00
@rizen	if you look at the paste bin	23:00
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5537 /translations/French/French/ (WebGUI.pm AuthWebGUI.pm): update_from_translation_server	23:01
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5538 /tools/translationserver.cgi: prevent creating of crappy translation names	23:01
lisette	rizen, the looks $db->execute(\[$id,$date]); ?	23:02
@rizen	no slash	23:04
@rizen	just copy and paste what i put in the paste bin	23:04
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lisette	i don't see nothign in http://webgui.pastebin.com/m5d327922	23:05
@rizen	no this one: http://webgui.pastebin.com/d64034ba1	23:06
jdan	Hi, does anyone know why spectre from last WebUI and WRE 0.8.1 don't compile? The message is: "to_json" is not exported by the JSON module	23:10
@rizen	you need to upgrade Config::JSON	23:12
@rizen	cpan	23:12
@rizen	force install Config::JSON	23:13
@rizen	that should fix the problem	23:13
@rizen	and as far as WRE 0.8.1 you need to upgrade to WRE 0.8.2 to fix that problem	23:13
@rizen	unfortunately the author of JSON broke the API	23:13
@rizen	so it created a bit of a mess for us	23:13
@rizen	WRE 0.8.2 will be out tomorrow	23:14
lisette	rizen, thank this works perfect!	23:14
@rizen	lisette: you're welcome	23:14
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5539 /wrebuild/ (wre/var/upgrades/upgrade_0.8.1-0.8.2.pl build.sh): fix some 0.8.2. build problems	23:17
jdan	rizen, thanks. I will wait until next WRE come. I wasted to much time and fill now little break.	23:17
@rizen	sorry jdan	23:18
jdan	Last question. I made some Polish translations directli in modules. Probably WebGUI 7.4.15. Who can parse messages from it and prepare Polish translations?	23:22
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@rizen	you can create a tarball of it and post it to the dev forum, and we'll see what we can do with it	23:23
@rizen	or if you prefer	23:23
@rizen	you could make patches against svn	23:23
@rizen	https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/browse/translations/Polish/	23:23
@rizen	https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/translations/Polish/	23:24
@rizen	svn co https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/translations/Polish/	23:24
jdan	First time I make tarball and send. It'll be greate if you import it. And next I can develope ...	23:26
@rizen	well normally you should just edit right in our translation server	23:26
@rizen	http://i18n.webgui.org	23:26
@rizen	everybody works together there	23:26
@rizen	to create translations	23:26
jdan	Ok, I can also past & copy	23:27
@rizen	let's see if we can auto import first	23:27
@rizen	i'd hate to see you do a lot of work	23:27
@rizen	or did you not make many changes?	23:28
jdan	In minutes I prepare tarball and send, so you can look ...	23:28
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CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5540 /translations/French/French/ (AuthWebGUI.pm Macro_SpectreCheck.pm): update_from_translation_server	23:36
+perlDreamer	I didn't know JT spoke french	23:41
@rizen	i speak french and whatever other language that someone might commit via i18n.webgui.org	23:41
@rizen	=)	23:42
+perlDreamer	it's nice to see translation messages again	23:43
@rizen	ok, so i'm building a vmware image for people to use	23:56
@rizen	should i have x start on it	23:56
@rizen	or just make it super bare bones?	23:56
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5540 /translations/French/French/ (AuthWebGUI.pm Macro_SpectreCheck.pm): update_from_translation_server	23:56
jdan	rizen, tarbal was sned to Discuss->WebGUI Dev	23:57
@rizen	good jdan, i'll take a look when i have a chance	23:58
jdan	thx	23:58
--- Day changed Fri Feb 22 2008
knowmad	perlDreamer: will you be around for another hour to 2	00:00
knowmad	1-2 hrs	00:00
knowmad	rizen: make it headless	00:01
knowmad	what distro are you planning to use?	00:01
+perlDreamer	knowmad: yes	00:03
@rizen	centos 5	00:03
knowmad	cool, i have an Instance.t test script and a Windoze issue with WebGUI::Test that i need to run by you	00:03
+perlDreamer	okay	00:04
+perlDreamer	afaik, no one has used WebGUI::Test under windows yet	00:04
knowmad	yeah, i figured as much; i'm off to the gym and we can chat when i get back	00:04
+perlDreamer	k	00:05
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CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5541 /translations/French/French/AuthWebGUI.pm: update_from_translation_server	00:14
+perlDreamer	whole lot of translating going on	00:15
+perlDreamer	french, polish	00:15
lisette	i can use a sentece if in an article?	00:16
+perlDreamer	lisette, you can put all kinds of content in an article	00:25
+perlDreamer	sentences, paragraphs or HTML	00:26
lisette	i need make an if of the result of a macro, how to do?	00:28
+perlDreamer	ah, that is a little more difficult	00:29
lisette	like in a template?	00:29
+perlDreamer	yes	00:29
+perlDreamer	you can use javascript to do that	00:29
lisette	ok, tk	00:29
+perlDreamer	or, you can use a different templating system, like HTML::Template::Expr or Template::Toolkit	00:29
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5542 /translations/French/French/ (AuthLDAP.pm Macros.pm): update_from_translation_server	00:29
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5543 /translations/French/French/Workflow_Activity.pm: update_from_translation_server	00:29
+perlDreamer	There may be an article on the wiki about using other templating systems	00:30
lisette	i search	00:31
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+perlDreamer	rizen: Am I going overboard with the parameter checking, like what I've done in Tax.pm?	00:40
@rizen	i haven't looked let me do that before i comment	00:41
@rizen	oh, that's brilliant	00:42
@rizen	webgui would be a much better system if we did that throughout	00:43
+perlDreamer	okay	00:46
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5544 /translations/French/French/AuthWebGUI.pm: update_from_translation_server	00:46
+perlDreamer	I was looking at ShipDriver->new, and wondering if I should validate the options param that gets passed in	00:46
@rizen	just to see if it's a hashref, or deeper validation?	00:49
+perlDreamer	deeper	00:50
+perlDreamer	if it isn't in the def sub, then croak	00:51
@rizen	"def sub"?	00:51
+perlDreamer	definition sub	00:51
+perlDreamer	crap, fell into one of my own mistakes	00:51
+perlDreamer	maybe I won't need to go looking for more material for that talk after all	00:51
@rizen	that is probably a bit extreme	00:52
+perlDreamer	okay	00:53
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CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5545 /translations/French/French/Asset_Navigation.pm: update_from_translation_server	01:01
@rizen	do you have it set to commit with each save now?	01:01
@rizen	or are they just committing that frequently	01:02
+perlDreamer	I think they're committing frequencly	01:02
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CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5546 /translations/French/French/ (Asset_Layout.pm Asset_Poll.pm): update_from_translation_server	01:17
CIA-40	WebGUI: graham * r5547 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (4 files in 4 dirs): prepare for 7.4.26	01:17
CIA-40	WebGUI: graham * r5548 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fixed: rich text editor image uploads deleted immediately	01:17
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CIA-40	WebGUI: graham * r5549 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): fixed: Rich editor page and image pickers are broken	01:37
CIA-40	WebGUI: graham * r5550 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Form/HTMLArea.pm: Fixing image uploads	01:37
knowmad	perlDreamer: check out http://webgui.pastebin.org/20650	01:37
CIA-40	WebGUI: graham * r5551 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Form.pm: Form header needs to default to post, multipart/form-data for empty data	01:37
CIA-40	WebGUI: graham * r5552 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Form/HTMLArea.pm: use proper urls for rich editor image uploads	01:37
+perlDreamer	k	01:37
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5553 /translations/French/French/Asset_FilePile.pm: update_from_translation_server	01:37
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5554 /translations/French/French/Asset_Template.pm: update_from_translation_server	01:37
+perlDreamer	what problems are you seeing?	01:38
knowmad	nothing on my linux dev box	01:39
knowmad	i'm getting ready to run that on my windows system that is having problems with JSON	01:39
+perlDreamer	you mentioned that it might be a problem with WebGUI::Test, too?	01:39
knowmad	i also need to make some edits to WebGUI::Test to support windows as it's not pushing the c:/data/WebGUI/lib directory onto @INC	01:39
+perlDreamer	what's it pushing instead?	01:40
knowmad	nada	01:40
knowmad	so it's not finding the WebGUI libs	01:40
knowmad	i hacked the test scripts to force it on	01:40
knowmad	but need to fix the source of the problem	01:40
knowmad	i'm going up front to my windows box	01:40
knowmad	i'll log back on here as guest	01:41
+perlDreamer	ok	01:41
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+perlDreamer	wgGuest48, how about nicking yourself to something easier to type?	01:47
wgGuest48	arggghh... have i said how much i hate windoze?	01:47
-!- wgGuest48 is now known as knowmadremote		01:47
+perlDreamer	you're preachnig to the choir	01:47
knowmadremote	i know	01:47
@preaction	no, but i sympathize	01:47
+perlDreamer	okay, 1 bug at a time	01:47
+perlDreamer	first, WG::Test	01:47
@rizen	knowmadremote: you could stop using it	01:47
@rizen	don't say you can't	01:47
+perlDreamer	which version of wG are we talking about here?	01:47
knowmadremote	$$$	01:47
+perlDreamer	7.5 or 7.4?	01:47
knowmadremote	7.4	01:48
+perlDreamer	near line 68, something always gets assigned to WEBGUI_LIB	01:48
knowmadremote	plus, i'm paving the way for you guys to say wG really does work on this bastard of an OS	01:48
+perlDreamer	and then it's pushed onto @INC	01:48
knowmadremote	yep	01:48
knowmadremote	going to test that	01:48
@rizen	webgui does really work on winblows	01:49
@rizen	it just doesn't work very well	01:49
@rizen	from a marketing perspective i've already got all i need =)	01:49
+perlDreamer	knowmadremote, if you're really serious about windows support, you should set up a smoke test every night, using preaction's soon to be released WRE smoke tools	01:51
knowmadremote	i'll see about doing that	01:51
@rizen	preaction is apparently so awesome that he has lots of side projects i don't know about	01:52
@preaction	heh. you'll need to translate a shell script into a windows command script, but the rest is Perl. all the command script does is build the right environment	01:52
knowmadremote	going to dump out those vars in Test.pm now	01:52
knowmadremote	sounds simple enough	01:52
+perlDreamer	preaction: can we write in perl instead of bash?	01:52
+perlDreamer	to keep it OS neutral?	01:52
knowmadremote	rizen: hopefully it's all making the jobs you give him easier :)	01:52
@preaction	yeah, if i can only stop push @projects; and start shift @projects;...	01:52
@preaction	perlDreamer, the WRE's environment script is a shell script, and I call that	01:53
+perlDreamer	ok	01:53
@rizen	i would assume so, the stuff i've seen so far is pretty cool	01:53
@rizen	though there's also a bunch of stuff that's just his personal itch scratching methinks	01:53
* perlDreamer hands preaction a webgui powered back scratcher		01:54
knowmadremote	here's the trouble with Test - $VAR2 = 'C:C:\\data\\WebGUI\\lib';	01:54
knowmadremote	it's doubling up on the diskname	01:54
@rizen	but that's why we love him	01:54
@rizen	oh and preaction, even if you start shift @projects, you'll never stop push @projects	01:54
@rizen	just the nature of the beast	01:54
@preaction	true that	01:55
+perlDreamer	what's WEBGUI_ROOT?	01:55
knowmadremote	it's correct - $VAR1 = 'C:\\data\\WebGUI';	01:55
knowmadremote	need to review that line that appends using splitpath	01:56
knowmadremote	but i'll have to do that later tonite or tomorrow -- it's time for the CharPM meeting	01:56
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5555 /translations/French/French/Asset_RSSCapable.pm: update_from_translation_server	01:56
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5556 /translations/French/French/Asset_RSSFromParent.pm: update_from_translation_server	01:56
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5557 /translations/French/French/Macro_GroupDelete.pm: update_from_translation_server	01:56
+perlDreamer	yeah, splitpath must reuturn C:\\	01:56
knowmadremote	social meeting tonite	01:56
@rizen	me too	01:56
+perlDreamer	I'll be around tomorrow, too	01:56
knowmadremote	see ya'll later	01:56
+perlDreamer	humph	01:56
knowmadremote	good	01:56
+perlDreamer	I have to go home and make dinner	01:57
knowmadremote	how do i log out of this java irc console?	01:57
+perlDreamer	slash quit?	01:57
knowmadremote	tks	01:57
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+perlDreamer	yup, that worked	01:57
@rizen	hehe	01:57
* rizen is building WRE 0.8.2		01:58
+perlDreamer	cool	01:58
+perlDreamer	I'm glad you found the apache problem	01:58
@rizen	should be up tonight so i can go back to commerce tomorrow	01:59
+perlDreamer	I really do think you should merge the driver classes	01:59
@rizen	but when i brought it up you were clearly confused by it...so that doesn't bode well	02:00
+perlDreamer	only when it mentioned class methods. I didn't that included the www methods, too.	02:00
+perlDreamer	To me, Ship ended up being like an operation	02:00
+perlDreamer	which is fien	02:00
+perlDreamer	fnie	02:00
+perlDreamer	fine	02:00
@rizen	which is it? fien fnie or fine?	02:00
@rizen	=)	02:00
+perlDreamer	long day	02:01
@rizen	understood	02:01
@rizen	why do you think that they should be merged?	02:01
+perlDreamer	it gets rid of the extra create method.	02:01
+perlDreamer	getShipper and getDrivers could easily belong in ShipDriver	02:02
@rizen	that sounds more like how it would work, not why it should be done	02:02
+perlDreamer	okay	02:03
+perlDreamer	we don't need two create methods that do essentially the same thing	02:03
+perlDreamer	there's no good reason for getShipper and getDrivers to be in one class or the other	02:03
+perlDreamer	but that's just restating what I said in a different way	02:03
@rizen	like i said, the main reason i thought the change was good was from a consistency with the asset api	02:04
@rizen	however, i also think the asset api is way too big	02:04
@rizen	and if you read any design patterns book, it will tell you to keep the factory classes separate	02:04
@rizen	which is the way it is now	02:04
+perlDreamer	that's the problem, I'm design pattern ignorant	02:05
+perlDreamer	I think of it like this	02:05
+perlDreamer	I don't want to type db access in 1 table in lots of files	02:06
+perlDreamer	because they're harder to maintain	02:06
@rizen	i'm only 0.004% design pattern literate	02:06
+perlDreamer	if they're all in 1 place, then I can s/old/new/ and get them all	02:06
+perlDreamer	if they're in multiple places, one might get forgotten	02:06
+perlDreamer	but that's what tests are for :)	02:06
@rizen	also most design books will say that objects should be small	02:07
@rizen	no more than 10 methods	02:07
@rizen	if you have more then you have not designed it well	02:07
@rizen	i obviously have broken that rule	02:07
@rizen	=)	02:07
+perlDreamer	:)	02:07
@rizen	asset alone probably has more than 100 methods	02:08
+perlDreamer	164	02:08
@rizen	see, i'm a horrible object architect	02:09
+perlDreamer	and you need a shave	02:09
@rizen	how do you know?	02:09
+perlDreamer	you still haven't found the camera I left in your house	02:09
+perlDreamer	So what do you do when you want to kill someone, but not spend the jail time?	02:10
@rizen	don't get caught	02:10
@rizen	that's what i've done	02:10
@rizen	er rather what i would do	02:10
@rizen	is it me?	02:11
+perlDreamer	not unless you were in my office yelling at me today	02:11
@rizen	there are lots of people that want me dead...you could form a coalition	02:11
+perlDreamer	and then talking to my boss behind my back	02:11
+perlDreamer	and later, when my boss confronts us both, having to take it all back	02:12
+perlDreamer	which made it better	02:12
+perlDreamer	but it wasn't a pleasant morning	02:13
@rizen	you could have someone else do it	02:13
@rizen	but it would have to be someone you weren't associated with	02:13
@rizen	yet someone that would do it for free	02:13
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5558 /translations/French/French/WebGUI.pm: update_from_translation_server	02:13
CIA-40	WebGUI: graham * r5559 /WebGUI/ (66 files in 66 dirs): preparing for 7.5.3 release	02:13
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5560 /translations/French/French/ (Asset.pm Asset_Event.pm WebGUI.pm): update_from_translation_server	02:13
stubert	Trying to do a 0.8.1 install and keep having trouble with JSON and Spectra. Installed from Binary and Source. Working on Debian Etch... Anyone know what I'm missing here?	02:17
@rizen	yes	02:18
+perlDreamer	WRE 0.8.3	02:18
@rizen	quit for tonight and wait until tomorrow moring	02:18
@rizen	WRE 0.8.2 is coming out tonight	02:18
stubert	thanks!	02:18
@rizen	The problem is that the person that maintains JSON broke the API horribly	02:18
@rizen	so the new WRE uses the new API for JSON	02:18
stubert	I see...	02:19
stubert	Is there a svn repository for the WRE stuff?	02:19
@rizen	yes you could grab it if you want	02:19
@rizen	let me get the url for you	02:19
@rizen	browsable interface: https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/browse/wrebuild/	02:20
@rizen	repo: https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/wrebuild/	02:20
stubert	cool.... I'll probably wait for tomorrows release, but I'll file those for later...	02:20
@rizen	actually you can get the source version already at this URL http://update.webgui.org/wre/source/	02:22
@rizen	debian etch is not one of our normal builds...that's contributed by somebody	02:22
@rizen	so that won't be out tomorrow	02:22
@rizen	now that i think about it	02:22
stubert	awsome!	02:22
@rizen	we do OSX, Red Hat Enterprise Linux 3-4-5, FreeBSD 6.2, Ubuntu 6, and SLES 10.1	02:23
stubert	no debian?	02:23
@rizen	nope, we polled our community a while back to see which ones they wanted, and these were the top 7	02:24
@rizen	8 if you include windows	02:24
stubert	good enough...	02:24
+perlDreamer	SynQ may build a new Debian Etch	02:24
+perlDreamer	or. stubert, you could do it	02:24
+perlDreamer	anyone can submit a WRE binary	02:25
@rizen	Yeah, SynQ runs webgui.nl, and he maintains the debian etch binary	02:25
stubert	aw...	02:25
-!- rizen is now known as rizenisaway		02:28
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5561 /translations/French/French/WebGUI.pm: update_from_translation_server	02:28
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5562 /translations/French/French/Asset_Event.pm: update_from_translation_server	02:28
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5563 /translations/French/French/AuthWebGUI.pm: update_from_translation_server	02:28
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5564 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/ShipDriver.pm t/Shop/ShipDriver.t): Valiadate inputs to create.	02:28
stubert	So just so I have a better grip... does the webgui user need to own the /data tree?	02:29
+perlDreamer	no	02:30
+perlDreamer	only /data/domains/mydomain	02:30
+perlDreamer	well, all of domains	02:30
stubert	Ok	02:30
@rizenisaway	that's not entirely true	02:31
@rizenisaway	it also needs to be able to write to the /data/wre/var folder	02:31
@rizenisaway	i usually just compile the wre as the webgui user	02:31
@rizenisaway	anyway...now i'm really away	02:32
@rizenisaway	see you later pd	02:32
stubert	thanks guys...	02:32
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CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5565 /translations/French/French/AuthWebGUI.pm: update_from_translation_server	02:46
-!- nuba_ is now known as nuba		02:48
@apeiron	May not be necessary for the webgui user to own /data but I've certainly found that it makes things easier when you can manage it.	02:50
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5566 /releases/WebGUI_7.5.3-beta: Release 7.5.3-beta	02:59
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CIA-40	WebGUI: graham * r5567 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): preparing for 7.5.4 dev	03:15
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@rizenisaway	i also think it is necessary to kick apeiron in the nutz occasionally	05:39
-!- rizenisaway is now known as rizen		05:40
@apeiron	wtf, what did I do to you?	05:40
@rizen	apeiron, did the new resizable stuff make it into tonights webgui release	05:40
@rizen	you don't have to do anything to me, i just like kicking people in the nutz	05:40
@apeiron	rizen, Still having IE issues. I figured out what was wrong with my previous approach though, am not sure which route I should go. =\	05:41
@rizen	the yui way is the way you should go	05:41
@rizen	long term the more yui is doing for you the less you have to maintain	05:41
@apeiron	True.	05:41
@rizen	yui definitely is getting cooler and cooler	05:42
@apeiron	2.5 is looking pretty neat. Lots of new stuffs.	05:42
@apeiron	(i.e., stuff ext has -- preaction pointed that out to me)	05:43
@apeiron	If you happen to know a JS debugger for IE that I can get my hands on that's better than the free one, I'd really appreciate it right about now.	05:44
@apeiron	The freebie one from MS doesn't do variable watches or anything like that. Basic breakpoints and that's it.	05:45
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5568 /translations/French/French/Asset.pm: update_from_translation_server	05:47
@rizen	there's always this option: http://www.getfirebug.com/lite.html	05:49
@rizen	which i know isn't ideal	05:49
@apeiron	Yeah, preaction mentioned that too. I'll have to give it a shot.	05:50
@rizen	there's also this list of ie plugins	05:50
@rizen	http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2007/06/22/from-microsoft-teched-2007-web-development-tools-for-internet-explorer.aspx	05:50
@apeiron	I guess I shouldn't be surprised that there's plugins written for IE considering how it works.	05:50
@apeiron	Hmm. I was always searching for "debug" or "debugging" and "js" or "javascript" earlier, probably why I missed that last link.	05:51
@preaction	apeiron, do you have a link with the IE7 problems? i'm trying to VM my boot camp partition so i can try to help out	05:52
@apeiron	It's really weird what's happening because it's saying it can't access an object property -- but only when I try to use the thing in WebGUI.	05:52
@apeiron	preaction, Oh, you mean a WebGUI instance that exhibits the issues?	05:52
@preaction	minimal test case again?	05:52
@apeiron	hmmm	05:52
@apeiron	I think, I was messing with a whole bunch of different things.	05:52
* apeiron looks.		05:52
@apeiron	sec. I have a WebGUI instance that exhibits the error, I need to make sure the firewall is redirecting to the right box.	05:56
@apeiron	http://coitusmentis.info/tell_a_friend	05:56
@apeiron	Fine in Firefox, fine in Safari, blows up in IE.	05:58
@apeiron	It's a little wonky in Opera -- the cursors aren't changed -- but if you drag a handle as usual it does what's expected.	05:59
@preaction	you'll never guess what was wrong with the test box	06:00
@preaction	i left the install CD in the drive, it got rebooted and booted the install cd	06:00
@preaction	go me!	06:00
@apeiron	heh	06:00
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5569 /translations/French/French/AdSpace.pm: update_from_translation_server	06:01
* apeiron remembers the early days of IE7 beta where you couldn't uninstall it.		06:02
@preaction	not so sure you can uninstall IE7 even now	06:02
@apeiron	You can.	06:02
@apeiron	I've been dinking back and forth several times a day.	06:02
@preaction	huh. nice	06:02
@apeiron	No noticeable issues whatsoever.	06:03
@preaction	why not get Multiple IEs?	06:03
@preaction	not sure if the installer is still a trojan horse or not	06:03
@apeiron	It doesn't let you do that.	06:03
@apeiron	It overwrites your IE6.	06:04
@rizen	http://tredosoft.com/Multiple_IE	06:08
@rizen	you can have all versions of ie on your box at the same time	06:08
@apeiron	Looks hopeful.	06:10
@rizen	i have it on my windows box	06:11
@rizen	it works great	06:11
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5570 /translations/French/French/ (Asset.pm Asset_Article.pm): update_from_translation_server	06:30
@rizen	preaction, is that you?	06:30
@rizen	on the translation server	06:30
@preaction	no	06:30
@preaction	someone else is doing french too now	06:30
@rizen	you are working on french though?	06:30
@rizen	sweet	06:30
@rizen	that's cool	06:30
@rizen	i'm hoping that lisette decides to help out with spanish	06:31
@preaction	i haven't been able to for a while, not since our meeting	06:31
@preaction	someones gotten about 14% of it completed in a week	06:34
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5571 /translations/French/French/ (VersionTag.pm Macro_GroupAdd.pm): update_from_translation_server	06:47
@rizen	they keep going and going and going	06:49
@rizen	oh, i set up a stats server for translations so we can see a little bit about who's using it	06:52
@rizen	http://stats.plainblack.com/?config=translation.webgui.org	06:52
@rizen	it's only got about a quarter day's data in it right nw	06:53
@rizen	now	06:53
@rizen	but it will become cool over time	06:53
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5572 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/t/Shop/ShipDriver.t:	07:01
CIA-40	WebGUI: Add more tests for the object instanciated by create. Still	07:01
CIA-40	WebGUI: needs a db interface, though.	07:01
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xdanger	Is there a "timed publishing feature" in webgui anymore? I remember that in 6.x at some point you could set startDate and endDate for every asset...	10:23
xdanger	rizen: ?	10:24
xdanger	preaction: ?	10:24
-!- Irssi: #webgui: Total of 22 nicks [4 ops, 0 halfops, 1 voices, 17 normal]		10:24
@rizen	you can do it with workflow, but it's not perfect	10:25
@rizen	i hope to have a new system in place before 7.5 goes stable	10:25
@rizen	but no guarantees	10:25
xdanger	When is 7.5 going to "freeze" ?	10:26
@rizen	[[may 31	10:27
@rizen	commerce is my priority though	10:28
xdanger	I just have couple of goverment projects that I'm doing offers (is that the right word for it... bid?) and most of them require timed publishing	10:28
@rizen	like i said you can do it now with an existing workflow plugin	10:28
xdanger	Do you have a idea about timed publishing? I might be able to bring some hours of work in to that	10:28
@rizen	you could build a better workflow plugin	10:28
@rizen	or you could build the mechanism i have planned	10:29
@rizen	yes, i have a way to do it	10:29
@rizen	the gist of it is that as you commit your version tag...when you come to the "comments" screen you'd also get to set a start date and an end date for the publishing of the version tag	10:30
xdanger	how you can do that now? I still haven't wrapped my head around the workflow stuff completly...	10:30
xdanger	aaah, that's a good idea...	10:31
xdanger	I was still thinking the 6.x way of doing it per asset...	10:31
@rizen	you'd use the workflow activity that allows you to schedule a cron job	10:31
@rizen	per asset is lame	10:31
@rizen	it was all there was in 6.x though	10:31
@rizen	the future is version tags...being able to publish a group of changes	10:31
@rizen	cuz in reality, you might on occasion publish one thing to a page	10:32
@rizen	but more likely you're publishing a whole page and all the stuff on it	10:32
@rizen	or maybe even a whole section to the site	10:32
xdanger	true	10:33
xdanger	that's a better way...	10:33
@rizen	the other thing is that with what i have planned, you'll be able to schedule some super cool stuff like	10:34
xdanger	I'm still puzzled about how you could do it with the current stable... I think it has to do with the "Create a Scheduled Event" activity...	10:34
@rizen	commit tag > publish tag on day X > on day Y move the content to an archive area	10:35
@rizen	yes it has to do with the scheduled activity	10:35
xdanger	but is there a way that (in the current system) the workflow could ask the user when he/she wants to publis his/her versiontag?	10:35
@rizen	what you do is set up your default workflow to only have the "Create A Scheduled Event" workflow activity in it	10:36
@rizen	then create a secondary workflow that does the commit stuff	10:36
@rizen	and set the scheduled event to a day or time that you want the content to be published	10:36
@rizen	no there isn't, but you could write a workflow activity to do that if you want	10:37
xdanger	That's too much for regular user to handle	10:37
@rizen	the stuff i just said above isn't handled by a user	10:37
@rizen	it's handled by you...once	10:37
@rizen	you set it up	10:37
xdanger	yes	10:37
@rizen	and it just works	10:37
xdanger	=P	10:37
@rizen	granted it's not nearly as easy or flexible as it should be	10:38
@rizen	which is why i have the plan i told you about	10:38
xdanger	ok	10:38
xdanger	If we get any of these offers through I'll contact you about that...	10:40
xdanger	and btw. the requirements are the the publishing and archive both can be timed	10:43
@rizen	yup...my plan covers that as i said above	10:44
xdanger	problem is that the system should be in use may 30 =D	10:44
@rizen	7.5 beta is pretty damn stable	10:44
@rizen	plainblack.com is using it in production	10:45
@rizen	and so our a bunch of our biggest clients	10:45
@rizen	in addition, we have a virtual hosting server dedicated to hosting small sites on the beta version	10:45
@rizen	and so far we have over 30 small sites that want the beta version and are happy with it	10:46
xdanger	I think I have to upgrade to that... It's allways a little hassle to upgrade because of my custom modifications...	10:46
@rizen	are your custom mods things that could go into the core so you don't have to keep making them?	10:46
xdanger	most of them... some are about finnish modifications	10:47
xdanger	one is userModified1-5.form.datetime for CS	10:47
@rizen	then you should propose them on the dev mailing list so we can discuss them	10:47
@rizen	and get them into the core	10:47
xdanger	and, for one client we needed to sort storage filelist	10:48
@rizen	it would save you a lot of work in the long run	10:48
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xdanger	And we have "metadata" for storagefiles in my modifications..	10:48
xdanger	custom metadata fields for CS storage files that is	10:49
xdanger	like here: http://luovapaja.fi/taitajat/mirumari	10:49
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5573 /translations/French/French/Asset_Search.pm: update_from_translation_server	10:50
@rizen	i'm tired (it's 3am here) and this stuff needs to be discussed publically	10:50
@rizen	create a detailed post on the dev forum	10:51
@rizen	we'll get it taken care of	10:51
@rizen	now i must sleep	10:51
xdanger	ok,	10:51
xdanger	good night ;)	10:51
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CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5574 /translations/French/French/WebGUI.pm: update_from_translation_server	12:28
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5575 /translations/French/French/WebGUI.pm: update_from_translation_server	12:45
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5576 /translations/French/French/Asset_Wobject.pm: update_from_translation_server	13:16
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5577 /translations/French/French/WebGUIProfile.pm: update_from_translation_server	13:16
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5578 /translations/French/French/Workflow.pm: update_from_translation_server	15:01
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5579 /translations/French/French/Workflow_Activity.pm: update_from_translation_server	15:01
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5580 /translations/French/French/ (13 files): update_from_translation_server	15:31
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knowmad	is anyone awake out there besides the bots?	16:12
perlmonkey2	I'm kind of awake...trying to get ready for work.	16:25
perlmonkey2	waiting on second pot of coffee before I brave a shave and shower and the cold drive to work.	16:25
perlmonkey2	Madison,WI has more snow this winter than ever recorded......suckers!	16:26
knowmad	yeah, it is a cold morning across the states, even down here in the southeast (Charlotte, NC). whereabouts are you?	16:26
knowmad	oh, madison	16:26
knowmad	i bet you are cold. are you on staff?	16:27
perlmonkey2	no, I'm not from madison...thought most of pb was.	16:27
perlmonkey2	OKC	16:27
knowmad	yeah, they are. OKC?	16:27
perlmonkey2	Oklahoma City	16:27
perlmonkey2	balmy 28 outside with a nice breeze and zero chance of sunburn.	16:27
knowmad	lovely day	16:29
knowmad	do you use wG at work?	16:29
knowmad	well, speaking of work, i've gotta mtg to get to	16:29
knowmad	talk to you later	16:29
perlmonkey2	k	16:29
perlmonkey2	yes, we use wg at work.	16:29
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lisette	hi	17:07
lisette	i have another database diferent of webgui, and i wish to do select, how to obtain the result in a macro?	17:08
nuba	lisette: in your macro you can open a connection to any database you want	17:22
@preaction	lisette, the same way you would in any other Perl script, only this time inside of sub execute { }	17:22
nuba	and I think you can use the WebGUI API to get a handle to any database connection configured in the system too	17:22
@preaction	WebGUI::DatabaseLink	17:22
nuba	i never used that, but i remember seeing it at the API documentation	17:23
@preaction	but as rizen said yesterday, you can use WebGUI::SQL->connect( DSN, username, password ); to get a connection to any database at all	17:23
lisette	yes i do a execute, but the way to obtain the result of a query is the same way of tha database of webgui or is another?	17:23
lisette	yes i do this	17:23
@preaction	so you do my $sth = $db->read( 'SQL' );	17:24
lisette	ok	17:24
lisette	thanks	17:24
@preaction	in that case, $sth is a WebGUI::SQL::ResultSet object	17:24
@preaction	so you can while ( my $hashRef = $sth->hashRef ) { print Dumper $hashRef }	17:24
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@apeiron	But again, as rizen said, make sure you close it when you're done.	18:20
@apeiron	If you're gonna be doing this a lot, it may make sense to use the DatabaseLink class.	18:21
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BartJo1	Haarg have you and Perldreamer found the commit to svn of the i18n server?	18:23
BartJo1	eeh problem somewhere in the sentence	18:23
@Haarg	seems to be working properly now	18:24
BartJo1	nice, is there also a probability that the dutch translation can be put back from the tar file?	18:25
BartJo1	the last one I've got?	18:25
@Haarg	is there something wrong with what's on the server, or did you just do more work offline?	18:31
BartJo1	well, it lost all the translations of the rich editor	18:31
BartJo1	well, 16 percent is present, but not sure how that came there	18:32
BartJo1	and the problem is that it often looses that translations	18:33
BartJo1	according to Martin it can be a problem with a pipe symbol, but we're not 100% certain of that	18:34
BartJo1	it is used as delimiter in the i18n files	18:34
BartJo1	a german translator was suffering from the same problem	18:37
BartJo1	as far as I'm concerned, only that namespace is important	18:39
BartJo1	but I've got to go	18:41
BartJo1	the link to the tar file is http://www.webgui.nl/uploads/3B/OD/3BODhxWYg5z7MgOQ1g_jqA/Dutch-7-5-2.tar.gz	18:42
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@apeiron	rizeniszzzzzzz, That IE thing that you linked me to is causing some problems. It just crashed IE when I tried to click the address ar.	19:09
@apeiron	er, address bar	19:09
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+perlDreamer	enough foolish chip design	19:58
+perlDreamer	time to hack on wG!	19:58
+perlDreamer	knowmad: Are you around?	19:58
+perlDreamer	how about knowmad-windoze?	19:59
-!- rizeniszzzzzzz is now known as rizen		20:11
@rizen	apeiron are you seriously blaming me for some download you got off the internet?	20:11
@apeiron	rizen, Nope.	20:12
xdanger	rizen: good morning ;)	20:12
@rizen	morning	20:13
@rizen	although, i've actually been away for 4 hours now...just releasing WRE and then on a conference call	20:13
xdanger	I'm just preparing for a beer & chess night =)	20:15
@rizen	oooh. i did beer and cards last night before i was talking to you	20:15
@rizen	it's a good time	20:15
@rizen	are you a chess wiz?	20:15
xdanger	nope	20:17
xdanger	did play alot when I was a kid, but mainly drunk chess now days =)	20:17
stubert	Just did a build of 0.8.2 and went to run wremonitor.pl. Got the following error accessing the page:	20:19
stubert	malformed JSON string, neither array, object, number, string or atom, at character offset 0 ["(end of string)"] at /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/JSON.pm line 140.	20:19
stubert	Then it dumps out of the monitor	20:19
stubert	Opps...	20:19
stubert	Ment wreconsole.sh	20:19
stubert	sorry... brain is just comming up... <g>	20:20
@rizen	you've got to be crapping me	20:20
stubert	Nope... what can I check?	20:20
@rizen	mf: what the hell did i do	20:21
@rizen	it was working	20:21
+perlDreamer	stubert, what OS?	20:21
stubert	Debian	20:22
stubert	Etch	20:22
stubert	It has a local perl install as well, do you want me to remove the local perl?	20:23
+perlDreamer	did you source the setEnvironment script?	20:23
stubert	yes	20:23
+perlDreamer	then the other perl won't matter	20:23
@rizen	no	20:23
@rizen	there's something wrong with the wre console that i didn't catch before	20:24
@rizen	but i don't know what it is	20:24
+perlDreamer	something sent JSON an empty string	20:24
+perlDreamer	maybe from a config file?	20:25
@rizen	yes something did, but i don't know what	20:25
@rizen	god damn it!!!!!!!	20:25
stubert	I'm trying to get a system up for one of my clients so they can play with it... Is there a version I can download and build that will work so I can let them play?	20:25
@rizen	i tested the hell out of this	20:25
@rizen	stubert just give me a couple minutes and i'll tell you what you can fix in your local install	20:26
@rizen	i'm sure it will be a simple change	20:26
stubert	cool	20:26
+perlDreamer	rizen: can you duplicate it on your end?	20:26
@rizen	yes	20:26
stubert	Thanks	20:26
@rizen	found it	20:31
@rizen	fixing	20:31
@rizen	i didn't vet a last minute patch from a contributor as well as i should have	20:36
+perlDreamer	can the bug be protected with a test?	20:37
@rizen	not sure and right now i don't care	20:38
@rizen	i just have to fix the problem quickly	20:38
@rizen	we'll worry about that latel	20:38
@rizen	later	20:38
+perlDreamer	gotcha, chief	20:39
stubert	This whole JSON thing has been a real nightmare for you guys hasn't it...	20:39
@preaction	you wouldn't believe...	20:40
+perlDreamer	oh yeah	20:40
+perlDreamer	every day, people posting bugs and forum posts	20:40
+perlDreamer	or here in IRC	20:40
+perlDreamer	it's been hard on everyone	20:40
+perlDreamer	in tcsh, pwd gives you an absolute path, even if you're in a symlinked directory (like /data/WebGUI)	20:42
+perlDreamer	how do you do that in bash?	20:42
@preaction	pwd -L	20:42
@preaction	or 'help pwd' perhaps	20:43
+perlDreamer	-P	20:43
+perlDreamer	thank!	20:43
+perlDreamer	oh, and I tested and applied knowmad's windows testing patch	20:44
+perlDreamer	and he said he may set up a windows testing server with the WRE based testing tools	20:44
+perlDreamer	when they're released	20:44
@preaction	yeah. working on getting them ready to be used by home	20:44
@preaction	er. him	20:44
@preaction	(ie documenting usage and options for testwebgui.pl)	20:45
@preaction	if i can just get in contact with the test server... it seems to not exist...	20:45
+perlDreamer	not again :)	20:45
stubert	hey guys, I've got to run to a service call for about 3 hours... will you be posting new release source?	20:47
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5581 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm): Fix running WebGUI tests on Windows.	20:47
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5582 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm): forward porting Testing fix	20:47
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5583 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm): side porting Windows testing fix	20:47
stubert	I'll gladly build the new blob and let you know if anything else is up...	20:48
@rizen	think i have the problem about licked	20:49
@preaction	the computer does a POST beep, but doesn't turn on the monitor.	20:49
stubert	good enough... again, I don't have a problem testing for you guys if it will help... I'll stay idle in the channel while out today, and if you need to email me you can at stu@socallinuxexpo.org	20:50
stubert	bbiab	20:50
@rizen	ok fixed	20:51
@rizen	committing	20:51
@apeiron	preaction, I've seen bad RAM cause that.	20:52
@preaction	MORE bad RAM... for gott's sake...	20:52
@apeiron	(excepting the obvious bad monitor / video card / anything in between)	20:52
@apeiron	preaction, Have you tried swapping out known good RAM?	20:53
@preaction	haven't really tried anything yet	20:54
@rizen	stubert: apply this diff https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/revision?rev=5584	20:54
@rizen	fuck, now i have to go rebuild all the wre's again	20:55
@rizen	so much for getting back to commerce today	20:55
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@preaction	i think i may have fried the video port	20:58
@preaction	brand-new RAM gives same issue	20:58
@apeiron	If it's just doing tests or something that shouldn't be so bad. Go pick up an el cheapo PCI card and you should be fine, yes?	21:00
@apeiron	(wonder if they still make PCI video cards)	21:00
@preaction	yes, they do	21:00
@apeiron	The question now becomes how you fried the video port. :)	21:00
@preaction	static electricity probably	21:01
+perlDreamer	it would have to be staticy	21:01
@rizen	i was thinking it was when you put the mini through the dish washer	21:01
+perlDreamer	Most chips are 2kV ESD compliant	21:01
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5584 /wrebuild/wre/ (docs/changelog.txt lib/WRE/Site.pm sbin/wreconsole.pl): - Fixed a bug created by a contributed patch.	21:01
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5585 /wrebuild/wre/var/ (3 files in 2 dirs): preparing for a 0.8.3 release	21:01
+perlDreamer	and you have to work to make 2kV	21:02
@preaction	last night when i tried to hook the monitor up, i touched the connector to the pins and the computer started power cycling by itself	21:02
+perlDreamer	like wearing wool socks in an uninsulated house in Wisconsin during the winter	21:02
@preaction	but then i power cycled again and the monitor came up with the normal boot stuff, so i turned off the monitor	21:02
@preaction	now it won't even come back on during boot	21:03
@apeiron	Another idea, try swappin monitors if you have another one.	21:04
@preaction	dont have another one. was going to try putting the monitor on another computer, known working video card	21:04
@rizen	have you tried tripple clicking? i've heard that works	21:05
@preaction	the power button?	21:06
+perlDreamer	no, the mouse	21:06
+perlDreamer	tripple clicking is like wearing ruby slippers	21:06
+perlDreamer	it always works	21:06
@preaction	is it anything like triple-clicking?	21:06
+perlDreamer	oh no, tripple clicking is different	21:06
@preaction	monitor works just fine like wine	21:07
@apeiron	Okay, so, in theory, the machine should boot just fine with the working RAM right?	21:08
@apeiron	Even if there's no video output.	21:08
+perlDreamer	some computers won't boot without a monitor present	21:08
@preaction	but it doesn't respond to SSH, so there's something wrong with the OS	21:08
@apeiron	Right, but we can't see what that is yet. Fun.	21:08
+perlDreamer	try this, connect it to a cheap KVM	21:09
@apeiron	perlDreamer, Hm, noted.	21:09
+perlDreamer	that should provide you with a video signal on the far end	21:09
+perlDreamer	um, nm	21:09
+perlDreamer	no port, doesn't matter what you connect to it.	21:09
@preaction	yeah	21:09
+perlDreamer	I'll just go back to writing buggy code	21:09
@preaction	i think i have a PCI vid card laying around here, sec	21:09
@preaction	S3 Trio 64v...	21:12
@preaction	older than dirt...	21:12
+perlDreamer	crap	21:14
@preaction	what if it's running an fsck, which is why it hasn't brought up SSH yet	21:14
+perlDreamer	what does that make me?	21:14
@preaction	dirt's older, less attractive uncle?	21:15
* perlDreamer writes a reminder to sign preaction up for the emo-wannabe facebook group		21:15
@preaction	sorry, i already got kicked off livejournal for being too whiny	21:16
+perlDreamer	when creating JSON strings, is there any requirement to use "pretty"?	21:22
+perlDreamer	or is it just good practice?	21:22
@preaction	i think pretty is good for things that the user might have to edit manually, like config files	21:22
@preaction	not sure, but pretty may also preserve comments	21:22
@preaction	and god damn it, it's working	21:23
+perlDreamer	w00t!	21:23
@preaction	i blew the vga port on the mobo	21:23
+perlDreamer	on the MacMini?	21:23
@preaction	iirc there's a fuse in there, i might be able to repair it	21:23
@preaction	no. on the test box	21:23
knowmad	perlDreamer: hey, thanks for taking that patch for a test drive	21:26
@preaction	yup. returned the monitor to the mobo's vga port and it gives me the triple-beep of "no monitor"...	21:26
knowmad	get this, the issue I was having with JSON library has disappeared	21:27
+perlDreamer	weird	21:28
knowmad	i did a reboot and that cleared things up; i wonder if i had libraries out-of-sync on that server	21:28
knowmad	and the test script i wrote for Instance.t is passing on Windows and Linux	21:28
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knowmad	it's not much but do you want to take a look at it?	21:28
+perlDreamer	sure	21:28
knowmad	where should i send it?	21:28
+perlDreamer	why not use the dev list	21:29
+perlDreamer	and I'll peek at it when I come back from lunch	21:29
+perlDreamer	you do too much of this and we'll have to give you a commit bit	21:29
knowmad	i forgot, i added it to pastebin (http://webgui.pastebin.org/20650) but I'll throw it on the dev list as well	21:29
knowmad	hey, wait a sec	21:30
knowmad	i don't want that responsibility yet...	21:30
knowmad	hopefully one day i'll earn it	21:30
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5586 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (3 files in 3 dirs): label is already stored in the options, and never used directly in any method. Code that wants it can instanciate an object	21:31
@preaction	and yay! there's no option in Intel's BIOS to enable / disable the check for monitor...	21:31
@preaction	which means that KVM switch i was going to buy is now a necessity...	21:31
stubert	rizen: Can't modify non-lvalue subroutine call at /data/wre/lib/WRE/Site.pm line 79	21:50
@rizen	did you apply both diffs?	21:50
@rizen	there were two on the page i sent you	21:50
@rizen	actually three, but one is a documentation file	21:51
stubert	Yes, but I couldn't figure out how to get them in test format, so I did them by hand...	21:51
stubert	Hell, whats the svn url again?	21:51
stubert	I'll just grab fresh code from svn	21:52
stubert	You need to make sure that works anyways... right?	21:52
@rizen	https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/revision?rev=5584	21:54
@rizen	i've already tested them on my local box	21:54
@rizen	i know they work	21:54
@rizen	and on that svn page there are links to actual diff files	21:54
@rizen	oh guess there aren't	21:54
@rizen	they're all formated	21:54
@rizen	sorry about that	21:54
@rizen	you can download the files from svn here: https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/browse/wrebuild/wre/	21:55
@rizen	or rather here: https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/wrebuild/wre/	21:55
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stubert	Well crap...	22:05
@rizen	crap?	22:07
stubert	the source dir isn't in the repo... No worries... It's my learning curve...	22:08
@rizen	you don't need to rebuild from scratch	22:09
@rizen	you've already built	22:09
@rizen	just put the two files into place	22:09
@rizen	that i edited	22:09
@rizen	that's it	22:09
@rizen	https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/wrebuild/wre/lib/WRE/Site.pm	22:09
@rizen	https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/wrebuild/wre/sbin/wreconsole.pl	22:10
stubert	You'd think it would be that easy... But my young assistant was trying to be helpful and deleted the /data dir on the dev box...	22:12
stubert	heh...	22:12
stubert	It's now building from svn... from scratch... (damn kids)	22:19
@rizen	ok then just replace those two files in the 0.8.2 tarbal in the wrebuild/wre folder	22:27
stubert	Ok I'm building with clean 0.8.2 and only those two files.	22:37
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@rizen	stubert: there's one more file you should copy into /data/wre/var/setupfiles/ after you are done building	22:58
@rizen	https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template	22:58
knowmad	rizen: are you going to be re-releasing WRE anytime soon?	22:59
@rizen	i'm putting together the wre 0.8.3 source file right now with all these changes and some fixed tests	22:59
@rizen	yes	22:59
knowmad	cool	22:59
@rizen	i'm working	22:59
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5587 /wrebuild/wre/ (10 files in 5 dirs): - Fixed some tests that weren't working properly.	23:00
stubert	rizen: will do... from r5584 or r5587?	23:10
@rizen	the version at this url: https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template	23:10
@rizen	sorry for the screw up	23:11
@rizen	i'm usually more careful than this	23:11
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wgGuest07	hello	23:41
wgGuest07	i have a question, can i create collaboration system automatically using a macro?	23:41
@preaction	that doesn't sound like a very good idea	23:49
wgGuest07	why?	23:54
nuba	hey, if i need to hack keywords (tagcloud) into a Collab, is there anything besides just importing the relevant sections from wikipage to post and from wikimaster to collab?	23:55
@rizen	nuba: not really, all the subsystems are designed to work with any asset, so it's just the front end code that you need	23:56
nuba	obviously massaging it hile doing the import	23:56
@rizen	wgGuest07: creating a collaboration system from a macro doesn't make any sense. they have nothing to do with each other. why don't you explain the end result you'd like to achieve instead and maybe someone can offer some advice	23:57
nuba	rizen: thx	23:58
@apeiron	wgGuest07, What if someone decided to be a mean person and automated requesting the page where the macro lives?	23:59
--- Day changed Sat Feb 23 2008
@apeiron	You'd have hundreds or thousands of collab systems.	00:00
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stubert	rizen: Just a heads up:	00:23
stubert	'jsonToObj' will be obsoleted. Please use 'from_json' instead. at /data/wre/lib/WRE/WebguiUpdate.pm line 159	00:23
stubert	During config...	00:23
@rizen	yeah that won't affect anything	00:24
@rizen	and is fixed in svn if you really want to fix it	00:24
@rizen	and is also fixed in WRE 0.8.3	00:24
@rizen	which was just released	00:24
stubert	cool... just doing the "report to the programmer thing"	00:24
@rizen	appreciate it	00:24
stubert	Wow! I think it worked!	00:25
+perlDreamer	rizen: just a heads up. Probably no commerce work over the weekend. My laptop is going through an upgrade.	00:27
@rizen	probably not me either...gotta catch up after this hell week	00:27
+perlDreamer	did the plumber come yet?	00:28
@rizen	yeah, and he can't fix it	00:28
@rizen	so he refunded my money	00:28
@rizen	so that's back on me too	00:28
+perlDreamer	that's the water back to your utility sink in the little bathroom off the kitchen?	00:29
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@apeiron	I need to upgrade the YUI in WebGUI to 2.5.0. There's an existing yui directory. Is there a way I can do this in one operation as far as the repo is concerned?	00:31
@apeiron	So that there's no possibility someone does an update or a checkout with an inconsistent / nonexistent copy of YUI?	00:31
stubert	So, did you want me to build a 0.8.3 version and gz it for you using etch?	00:32
+perlDreamer	just make all the changes, then head to /data/WebGUI and do the commit from there	00:32
@apeiron	rm the old directory?	00:32
@apeiron	There may be files not in use in 2.5.0 that are in 2.4.0, I don't see why we need to keep them around.	00:32
+perlDreamer	svn delete	00:32
@apeiron	ah.	00:32
@apeiron	Oh!	00:32
+perlDreamer	and the upgrade script will need to remove the files by hand	00:33
@apeiron	1. Each item specified by a PATH is scheduled for deletion upon next commit.	00:33
@preaction	and then svn add --force yui once you extract yui to the right place	00:34
@apeiron	Okie, thanks, gents.	00:35
+perlDreamer	apeiron, just be sure to test everything with AJAX in it that's in the core.	00:35
@apeiron	yay, fun.	00:36
@preaction	you mean everything you can get your grubby testing mitts on. a LOT of stuff uses yui	00:36
@preaction	mostly, just try adding / editing assets. if that works you should be pretty safe	00:36
+perlDreamer	how 'bout the gallery?	00:36
@preaction	the JS in there is getting rewritten. the yui carosel thing i use sucks	00:37
@apeiron	I sent the login credentials to the staff list, if people want to give me a hand testing.	00:37
@apeiron	If anyone else wants to help with testing let me know.	00:37
+perlDreamer	hm, maybe syntax highlighting was invented for a reason...	00:39
@apeiron	When it works, yeah.	00:39
* apeiron can only imagine the hell that perl6 is going to give syntax highlighters.		00:39
+perlDreamer	I spent 5 minutes trying to figure why perl couldn't find my new sub	00:39
+perlDreamer	when it's between =head2 and =cut	00:40
@preaction	as they say, only perl can parse Perl	00:46
@apeiron	uhm, yay. Submitting asset descriptions is borked.	01:08
@rizen	perlDreamer: yes that, and some other utility spigots in the basement and outside	01:08
@apeiron	Glad I didn't do the commit yet.	01:09
@rizen	apeiron: the way to go is to just delete the existing YUI folder in svn	01:09
@rizen	commit	01:09
@rizen	then extract the new one	01:09
@rizen	and do an add operation	01:09
@apeiron	rizen, Okie.	01:09
@rizen	and apeiron: when you do it, also delete the Ext folder as it will no longer be needed	01:10
@apeiron	rizen, I'd like to fix these glaring JS bugs first though. :)	01:10
@rizen	sure	01:10
@apeiron	rizen, wG/www/extras/extjs ?	01:10
@rizen	i'm just telling you for future	01:10
@rizen	yes	01:10
@apeiron	Noted, thanks.	01:10
@rizen	ok guys, do you need anything else..cuz i have an appointment	01:10
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@apeiron	Nothing I haven't already requested (i.e., eyes out for new YUI-related bugs)	01:12
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CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5588 /translations/Polish/Polish/ (15 files): update_from_translation_server	01:19
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CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5589 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/ShipDriver.pm t/Shop/ShipDriver.t):	02:13
CIA-40	WebGUI: getName, getId, set, create with db storage.	02:13
CIA-40	WebGUI: Added tests for all those methods.	02:13
CIA-40	WebGUI: Check that definition gets a session object or else.	02:13
@apeiron	perlDreamer, Or else what?	02:16
stubert	thanks to all! I'm sure I be back... <g>	02:16
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+perlDreamer	It's the same "or else" that they use in the movies	02:16
@apeiron	But they never tell you then either!	02:17
+perlDreamer	No, their secret will be safe forever	02:17
@apeiron	They just toss the line out there and seem to point to some literally obscene (i.e, "offscene", the original meaning of the word) explanation.	02:17
+perlDreamer	or else...	02:19
+perlDreamer	sleeping with the fisher	02:19
+perlDreamer	wearing a cement tuxedo	02:19
+perlDreamer	sucking phlegm and die	02:19
@apeiron	That doesn't sound pleasant! That doesn't sound pleasant at all!	02:19
+perlDreamer	exploring infinity	02:19
+perlDreamer	Making Star Trek V	02:32
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CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5590 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/ShipDriver.pm t/Shop/ShipDriver.t):	02:47
CIA-40	WebGUI: Start working on the new method, with tests.	02:47
CIA-40	WebGUI: Refactor out the object building code into a private method to be shared by	02:47
CIA-40	WebGUI: new and create.	02:47
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CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5591 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/ShipDriver.pm t/Shop/ShipDriver.t):	08:31
CIA-40	WebGUI: Move the delete test after the new test, so that there's an object	08:31
CIA-40	WebGUI: to pull from the db. Sheesh.	08:31
CIA-40	WebGUI: Remove the id generation from inside the private build method	08:31
CIA-40	WebGUI: and make sure it returns the built object.	08:31
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5592 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/ShipDriver.pm t/Shop/ShipDriver.t): add the get tests and method	08:46
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wgGuest68	Hiya boys and gals	12:26
wgGuest68	Can someone help me? I keep getting a "BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at ./wreconsole.pl line 18." after trying to start WRE	12:26
wgGuest68	Now it started all a sudden but when I try to add a site I getting "Site could not be created because MySQL appears to be down. at ./wreconsole.pl line 228"	12:30
wgGuest68	Anybody there ?	12:32
wgGuest68	Hello ?	12:39
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GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: Installing WRE 0.8.3 - Edited on 2/23/2008 12:19 pm by cap10morgan http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/installing-wre-0.8.3	20:30
nuba	nice	20:33
nuba	cap10morgan++	20:34
CIA-40	WebGUI: doug * r5593 /branch/doug-experimental/lib/WebGUI/ (Form/Interval.pm Asset/Wobject/Calendar.pm): checkin current work on calendar list view so i can merge	20:49
nuba	hey guys, what is the best way to find the first ancestor of an asset of a specific class?	23:36
nuba	im at a post, and would like to find the collab asset it belongs to	23:36
nuba	so first ancestor starting from self and going towards root	23:37
nuba	otherwise, im going to get the posts's thread, then the thread's parent..	23:38
nuba	but knowing if theres a upwards lineage lookup would be nice	23:39
@preaction	nuba, $self->getLineage( [ 'ancestors' ], { includeOnlyClasses => ['WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Collaboration'] } );	23:41
nuba	duh	23:43
nuba	thanks	23:43
nuba	is keywords for the Collab something people would want contributed back?	23:46
@preaction	most likely	23:46
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@preaction	i believe it's somehting JT wanted to to, but didn't have time	23:46
cap10morgan	Have you guys had reports of problems with runCronJob in 7.4.25?	23:46
@preaction	it's using the WebGUI::Keyword thing, right? by doing $self->update('keywords');	23:46
cap10morgan	runCronJob seems to fail after upgrading to 7.4.25, which causes spectre to DOS my server :)	23:48
cap10morgan	extracting 7.4.24 over top and restarting makes all well again	23:48
cap10morgan	i'm opening a bug report now	23:48
@preaction	this -stable, -beta thing is becoming bumpy...	23:49
CIA-40	WebGUI: doug * r5594 /branch/ (657 files in 147 dirs): finished Calendar list view and iCalendar page size selector	23:50
--- Day changed Sun Feb 24 2008
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CIA-40	WebGUI: doug * r5595 /branch/doug-experimental/docs/upgrades/ (packages-7.5.4/home_calendar-templates.wgpkg packages-7.5.4): added package for default (bad) templates	00:15
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CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5596 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (3 files in 3 dirs):	06:17
CIA-40	WebGUI: Refactor out the getEditForm code from WebGUI::Workflow::Activity and	06:17
CIA-40	WebGUI: put it into HTMLForm. Now HTMLForm can generate dynamic, definition	06:17
CIA-40	WebGUI: based forms for WebGUI.	06:17
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preaction	i am apparently the #1 person to visit svn.webgui.org	08:03
preaction	by about 700%	08:03
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CIA-40	WebGUI: doug * r5597 /branch/doug-experimental/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Calendar.pm: Nightly checkin because you forgot	14:11
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+MrHairgrease	howdy!	15:48
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: Installing WRE 0.8.3 - Edited on 2/24/2008 8:53 am by tavis.parker http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/installing-wre-0.8.3	17:04
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: Installing WRE 0.8.3 - Edited on 2/24/2008 8:55 am by tavis.parker http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/installing-wre-0.8.3	17:06
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: WebGUI Runtime Environment - Edited on 2/24/2008 8:57 am by tavis.parker http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/webgui-runtime-environment	17:08
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: WebGUI Runtime Environment - Edited on 2/24/2008 8:58 am by tavis.parker http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/webgui-runtime-environment	17:09
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: WebGUI Runtime Environment - Edited on 2/24/2008 9:00 am by tavis.parker http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/webgui-runtime-environment	17:10
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: WebGUI Runtime Environment - Edited on 2/24/2008 8:59 am by tavis.parker http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/webgui-runtime-environment	17:10
+MrHairgrease	lesson of the day: Never pick your nose after mincing chillis...	17:54
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GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: Getting Started in the WebGUI Community - Edited on 2/24/2008 10:37 am by tavis.parker http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/getting-started-in-the-webgui-community	18:48
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: Getting Started in the WebGUI Community - Edited on 2/24/2008 10:41 am by tavis.parker http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/getting-started-in-the-webgui-community	18:52
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: Getting Started in the WebGUI Community - Edited on 2/24/2008 10:42 am by tavis.parker http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/getting-started-in-the-webgui-community	18:53
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: Getting Started in the WebGUI Community - Edited on 2/24/2008 10:46 am by tavis.parker http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/getting-started-in-the-webgui-community	18:57
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: Getting Started in the WebGUI Community - Edited on 2/24/2008 10:48 am by tavis.parker http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/getting-started-in-the-webgui-community	18:59
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: Getting Started in the WebGUI Community - Edited on 2/24/2008 10:52 am by tavis.parker http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/getting-started-in-the-webgui-community	19:03
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: IRC - Edited on 2/24/2008 10:54 am by tavis.parker http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/irc	19:05
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GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: Installing WRE 0.8.3 - Edited on 2/24/2008 11:12 am by tavis.parker http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/installing-wre-0.8.3	19:23
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: Installing WRE 0.8.3 - Edited on 2/24/2008 11:13 am by tavis.parker http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/installing-wre-0.8.3	19:24
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GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: Installing WRE 0.8.3 - Edited on 2/24/2008 11:15 am by tavis.parker http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/installing-wre-0.8.3	19:26
* perlmonkey2 just realized the Dropkick Murphys have a new album out.....today is a good day.		19:26
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diakopter	for someone's future reference, on a plain-jane RHEL4/Centos4 install, the packages ncurses and libstdc++ need installed for the wre 0.8.3's mysql to work.	21:15
@preaction	diakopter, if you want the right people to get that info, you'll probably want to post it to the dev mailing list	21:59
@preaction	if it's not already in the readme	21:59
diakopter	fresh 0.8.3 install, all the defaults, wreconsole.pl says ADMIN: [Error] Couldn't fetch Spectre configuration data for [sitename].conf	22:26
diakopter	where [sitename] is my sitename	22:26
diakopter	and I did get a success message (just prior) from addsite.pl. [sitename] was created. Don't forget to restart the web servers and Spectre. (which I did)	22:27
diakopter	preaction: any ideas? This worked a few days ago on wre 0.8.1	22:28
@preaction	error logs	22:28
diakopter	preaction: it seems to have healed itself.	22:32
diakopter	however, now, Spectre	22:34
diakopter	preaction: however, now Spectre seems to be abnormally stopping itself without logging an error	22:34
@preaction	what does perl spectre.pl --run --debug do?	22:35
diakopter	Couldn't execute operation : WebGUI::Operation::Cron::www_runCronJob. Root cause: malformed JSON string, neither array, object, number, string or atom, at character offset 0 ["(end of string)"] at /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/JSON.pm line 140.	22:37
diakopter	that's from webgui.log	22:37
diakopter	(and spectre died). now launching it from the command line as you requested	22:38
diakopter	no errors from spectre so far	22:41
diakopter	trying a versioned operation	22:41
diakopter	worked just fine	22:42
diakopter	until now	22:42
@preaction	7.4.25 i assume?	22:43
diakopter	yes; do I need something later?	22:43
@preaction	grab the WebGUI::Workflow::Cron out of 7.4.24	22:43
@preaction	7.4.25 is the latest stable	22:43
-!- preaction changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.25-stable / 7.5.3-beta \| WRE 0.8.1 ] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org \| Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com/ \| WebGUI to be included in default Debian distribution		22:43
@preaction	i think that fixes it. there's something on the bug list about it	22:45
* diakopter grabs https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/checkout/releases/WebGUI_7.4.24-stable/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Cron.pm		22:45
@preaction	i expect tomorrow or late tonight i'll figure out what happened, but i imagine a combination of 1) No tests for the 7.4 branch (fixed now) 2) the JSON 2.x fiasco and 3) the tests passing somehow before the release	22:47
@preaction	(1) being no nightly tests, not no tests period	22:47
diakopter	preaction: are you the one who will make the WebGUI debian package?	22:50
@preaction	no	22:50
@preaction	iirc it's in debian testing right now	22:51
@preaction	and i don't remember who's doing it, but it might have a maintainer line	22:51
@preaction	nm, must just be proposed	22:52
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CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5598 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/HTMLForm.pm:	02:27
CIA-40	WebGUI: getEditForm also needs to accept the name of the hash key where	02:27
CIA-40	WebGUI: the list of fields is, because it is different in different	02:27
CIA-40	WebGUI: places in WebGUI.	02:27
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5599 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/ShipDriver.pm t/Shop/ShipDriver.t): Add getEditForm to the ShipDriver, and test it.	02:27
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CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5600 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/shipper.pod: GT to >	03:02
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CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5601 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (5 files in 4 dirs):	08:13
CIA-40	WebGUI: Interim checkin.	08:13
CIA-40	WebGUI: FlatRate needs i18n and more tests.	08:13
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CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5602 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Cron.pm docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt): fixed: runCronJob operation fails	14:12
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wgGuest30	hello	15:54
wgGuest30	i have a question	15:54
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wgGuest30	i have an error in my site, related to insert a image in a article o collaboration system	16:03
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wgGuest30	when i uploaded the image i don't have any problem, but when i try to insert it, the webgui.log shows me the next error	16:04
wgGuest30	Can't make a thumbnail for a file that is not in my storage location	16:04
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* ckotil just saw a ghost		16:26
* MrHairgrease saw it too		16:26
+MrHairgrease	never knew crythias was undead...	16:26
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-!- rizen changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.25-stable / 7.5.3-beta \| WRE 0.8.3 ] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org \| Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com/		17:04
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wgGuest30	hello	17:42
wgGuest30	i have an error in my site, related to insert a image in a article o collaboration system	17:43
wgGuest30	Can't make a thumbnail for a file that is not in my storage	17:43
wgGuest30	MrHairgrease, can you help me ?	17:54
+MrHairgrease	not right now busy	17:55
+MrHairgrease	but if you cannot upload images	17:55
+MrHairgrease	10 to 1 that your file system privs ar enot correct	17:55
wgGuest30	i can upload the images, the problem is that i can not insert it in an article	17:56
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preaction	good morning everybody!	18:08
wgGuest30	good morning	18:09
wgGuest30	preaction, are you busy?	18:10
preaction	always, why	18:10
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wgGuest30	yes, i know, but i have a question related to sql forms	18:11
@preaction	i'm not the one to ask on those things, that'd be MrHairgrease	18:13
wgGuest30	ok	18:14
wgGuest30	besides i have a problem with the image thumbnail	18:14
wgGuest30	i have a user as a content manager and he upload images without problems but when he tries to insert them in an article o collaboration system the webgui.log shows me an error	18:15
wgGuest30	the error is the next Can't make a thumbnail for a file that is not in my storage location	18:16
wgGuest30	do you know what is it about'	18:16
@preaction	which version	18:17
wgGuest30	7.3.24	18:17
wgGuest30	excuseme 7.4.24	18:17
@preaction	iirc that's a known issue, upgrade to 7.4.25	18:17
@preaction	Haarg, you fixed the image upload problems in 7.4.24, right?	18:18
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@preaction	wgGuest30, is there any other errors before "can't make a thumbnail?"	18:18
@Haarg	afaik	18:18
wgGuest30	no, i upload the image without problem	18:20
wgGuest30	the problem is when i try to insert it in an article	18:20
wgGuest30	since i upgraded to 7.4.24 i have saw the next error Asset constructor new() requires an assetId.	18:21
wgGuest30	are the errors related?	18:21
+MrHairgrease	wgGuest30: if your sqlform problem is not too long I might be able to help you out	18:23
wgGuest30	MrHairgrease, the thing is that i have a list of items and i want to create a check list to show them. the user can check some of them but i have noticed that only one answer is been saved	18:25
+MrHairgrease	what's the db fieldftype?	18:25
+MrHairgrease	and the form field type	18:26
+MrHairgrease	checklist or check box	18:26
wgGuest30	yes, check box	18:26
+MrHairgrease	checkbox allows for only one answer	18:27
+MrHairgrease	use checklist	18:27
wgGuest30	the db field is int	18:27
+MrHairgrease	also make sure you have the correct db type	18:27
+MrHairgrease	what did you set that to?	18:27
+MrHairgrease	int is also a nono if you want to store multiple values	18:27
+MrHairgrease	you'd be better off using text	18:27
wgGuest30	and the form field is check list	18:27
+MrHairgrease	ok so change the field to use checklist/text	18:29
+MrHairgrease	if you use int you can only store one value.	18:29
+MrHairgrease	and then only and only if the key of the key/value pair is 100% numeric	18:29
wgGuest30	ok	18:29
wgGuest30	i am going to test	18:31
wgGuest30	thanks MrHairgrease	18:32
+MrHairgrease	does it work now?	18:32
wgGuest30	i am creating the field type and the field,	18:33
wgGuest30	wait a minute please	18:33
+MrHairgrease	ok	18:33
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+perlDreamer	morning folks	18:37
@preaction	morning	18:37
+MrHairgrease	hi pd	18:37
+perlDreamer	what happened to the test run from last night?	18:38
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@preaction	perlDreamer, the SVN instance on my box didn't have log.conf or spectre.conf (just the .originals)	18:43
+MrHairgrease	i'm off to home. bbl. wgguest30 let me know if you succeeded later.	18:43
wgGuest30	MrHairgrease, yes it works. But i have another question, how can i edit o eliminate this option,leave empty-	18:43
@preaction	don't know why those 7.4 tests are failing, do'nt know if they're actual failures or just test box problems	18:43
@preaction	i'm upgrading the test box to WRE 0.8.3 right now	18:44
+perlDreamer	they are actual failures	18:44
+perlDreamer	I think they're fixed in 7.5 and may just need to be backported	18:44
@preaction	k	18:44
@preaction	once i have the WRE 0.8.3 built i'll fix things and run the SVN test again	18:45
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+perlDreamer	preaction: Did you see my getEditForm hack in the edit branch this weekend?	19:10
@preaction	no	19:10
@preaction	which revision?	19:10
+perlDreamer	5596 ( and also 5598 with a bug fix)	19:11
+perlDreamer	basically, I gave HTMLForm a getEditForm method	19:12
+perlDreamer	so you don't have to reinvent it for all new classes	19:13
@preaction	sweet	19:14
+perlDreamer	still need one for the tabform, but it's a start	19:14
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* perlmonkey2 realizes that a mini-itx may be able to run WG, but developing on it is no fun.....30 seconds httpd reboots suck.		19:33
@preaction	nice	19:33
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perlmonkey2	Where are the international values stored? I don't see a db table with international in it.	19:55
@preaction	lib/WebGUI/i18n/Language/Namespace.pm	19:56
perlmonkey2	thanks	19:56
perlmonkey2	hhm, I'm guessing that is only supposed to be edited via the WG asset manager?	19:58
+perlDreamer	no, it's just perl	19:58
+perlDreamer	hash of hashes	19:58
+perlDreamer	you can start with the _i18n.skeleton file	19:58
+perlDreamer	or, if you prefer, i18n.webgui.org	19:58
perlmonkey2	right, but it has that lastupdated field.	19:58
+perlDreamer	right	19:59
perlmonkey2	usually timestamps imply some interface	19:59
+perlDreamer	:.!perl -e 's/\d+/time()/e;'	19:59
perlmonkey2	heh	19:59
perlmonkey2	okay	19:59
+perlDreamer	it's just record keeping so that the translators can figure out when something was updated	19:59
@preaction	the translation system at i18n.webgui.org uses it	19:59
perlmonkey2	got it, thanks	19:59
+perlDreamer	that's actually a macro in my .vimrc	19:59
@preaction	i would suggest using that to update translations	19:59
perlmonkey2	preaction: this is for the new survey module.	20:00
@preaction	ah, then no	20:00
@preaction	make an English translation of what you need	20:00
perlmonkey2	okay	20:00
@preaction	i just set lastUpdated to 0 when i initially create my stuff, don't know what that does really	20:00
@rizen	0 is good	20:01
@rizen	it means it hasn't been updated since it's initial add	20:01
@rizen	that's what i do as well	20:01
perlmonkey2	In the tabform for the survey, I see a whatNext value of editQuestion, but there isn't an editQuestion sub, only www_editQuestion. Does WG translate to the www_?	20:04
+perlDreamer	what OS does the appliance use?	20:05
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2: func=method translates to www_method	20:05
@rizen	perlDreamer: CentOS 5	20:05
+perlDreamer	sweet	20:05
+perlDreamer	we have vmware running on the 2 GHz linux workstations	20:05
perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: okay, thanks	20:06
+perlDreamer	I think it's time to upgrade from the 500 MHz dev box :)	20:06
@rizen	awesome, so the appliance will work for you at $dayJob	20:06
+perlDreamer	I sure hope so	20:06
@preaction	also, it should be "proceed" not "whatNext". "proceed" is handled directly by Asset.pm->www_editSave	20:06
perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: 500Mhz dev box? And I thought I was suffering with a 1Ghz dev box.	20:07
@rizen	just so you know, it's not set up in dev mode, but rather in production mode...i can show you how to reset it for dev mode if you like	20:07
+perlDreamer	not only is it 500 MHz, but it's a P3	20:07
+perlDreamer	rizen, first I need to see how to install new images	20:07
+perlDreamer	I may not have enough access to do that	20:07
@preaction	perlmonkey2, i mean for your new code, the old code is the old code. your new code should use "proceed". see Asset.pm www_editSave to see how that works	20:07
perlmonkey2	preaction: okay, I'm trying to parse the current survey system and use as much of it as possible, and that is how it handled the tabforms.	20:07
perlmonkey2	okay	20:07
@rizen	preaction: the survey predates the asset system that's why it's not currently proceed	20:07
@preaction	that's what i figured, it's old, but it works. new stuff uses new techniques	20:08
@rizen	perlDreamer: you'll have full root access on the webgui appliance provided you have the privs to install new vmware appliances	20:08
perlmonkey2	Heh, this is going to be a huge learning experience.	20:08
+perlDreamer	so, would I stick that in VMWare Player, or VMWare Workstation?	20:09
@rizen	either	20:10
+perlDreamer	hm	20:10
+perlDreamer	650 Mb	20:10
@rizen	yeah it's big	20:11
+perlDreamer	that's bigger than my user quota	20:11
@rizen	and it's even bigger than that extracted	20:11
@rizen	at least my system reports it at about 1gb extracted	20:11
@rizen	that's cuz it has a swap partition, and the operating system on it	20:12
@rizen	plus the 250mb wre	20:12
@rizen	plus the 50mb webgui	20:12
@rizen	and i pruned a lot out of the os	20:12
@rizen	it doesn't have X or apache or anything extra	20:13
+perlDreamer	that might be a problem	20:15
+perlDreamer	we have an authenticated proxy	20:15
CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5603 /translations/Polish/Polish/AdSpace.pm: update_from_translation_server	20:15
+perlDreamer	I'll find a way to do it via wget or links	20:15
+perlDreamer	hm, free disk space :)	20:18
+perlDreamer	and a world writable VMware directory	20:19
@preaction	it'd be a shame if nobody took advantage of that	20:19
+perlDreamer	yes	20:20
+perlDreamer	although, the machines are admin'ed with cfengine, so it will be a bit of an experiment for a while	20:20
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perlmonkey2	I'm guessing calls to view automatically call prepareView first?	20:43
@rizen	not necessarily	20:44
@rizen	just depends on the asset	20:44
@rizen	in general though www_view does both prepareView and view	20:44
perlmonkey2	For instance, the WeatherData has no explicit call to prepareView.	20:45
@rizen	right, but the super class's www_view does	20:45
perlmonkey2	So as long as my Asset is a Wobject, I can count on prepareView being called first. Groovy.	20:46
@rizen	and the layout asset explicitly calls prepareView before calling view when inlining it into a page	20:46
perlmonkey2	use base or @ISA for inheritance?	20:48
@preaction	use base	20:48
perlmonkey2	k	20:48
@preaction	do you have a copy of Perl Best Practices? if not, you should	20:48
perlmonkey2	Yes, I have a copy.	20:49
@preaction	with some minor exceptions like camel case and "return undef;", we follow them all	20:49
perlmonkey2	Do I just assume those are WG best practices?	20:49
perlmonkey2	k	20:49
@preaction	basically	20:49
@rizen	there's also a wiki page that describes webgui's best practices beyond PBP	20:50
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ckotil	rizen: any thought about a Xen guest WebGUI, similiar to the vmware appliance?	20:54
@rizen	i'm fine with that, but i'm not going to maintain it....we have enough stuff to maintain at this point	20:55
ckotil	ive packaged up a xen guest for windows XP pro that i can deploy in almost no time at all.	20:55
ckotil	gotcha.	20:55
@rizen	SynQ (koen@procolix.nl) has stated he'd like to maintain one	20:55
@rizen	but i don't know where he is at present with it	20:55
ckotil	does the vmware apliance run the wre?	20:56
@rizen	yes	20:56
ckotil	cool.	20:56
@rizen	windows xp wouldn't work as a guest for our appliance though cuz then you need a windows license	20:56
@rizen	so we used CentOS 5 instead	20:56
@rizen	cuz it's got a free license	20:56
ckotil	yah. ive got access to a university license.	20:57
@rizen	if you're interested in maintaining one, then i'd give you privs to put it up on source forge for distribution, and i'd link to it from getwebgui.com	20:58
ckotil	i would take you up on that if i used xen guests for webgui. but im just running webgui from source at the moment	20:58
perlmonkey2	If my wobject edit screens aren't using a tabform or html form, but a processTemplate call, then will I need to call prepareView to get the SUPER call, myself?	21:00
@preaction	prepareView is only needed for view and www_view. not for other things	21:01
@rizen	unless you want to do content chunking	21:01
@rizen	but on the survey, i don't think that will be necessary	21:02
perlmonkey2	And I won't need the toolbar.	21:02
perlmonkey2	cool	21:02
nuba	you can go from a vmware image to xen	21:03
nuba	http://ian.blenke.com/vmware/vmdk/xen/hvm/qemu/vmware_to_xen_hvm.html	21:03
nuba	if this works ok, then you'll need just to mantain the vmware image and most likely automate the creation of the xen image	21:08
ckotil	nice!	21:09
@rizen	still not doing it	21:10
@rizen	perlDreamer: need an opinion	21:11
@rizen	i'm thinking that all Sku assets should have a Commerce tab, and that's where we put stuff like sku, price, tax override, etc	21:11
@rizen	what do you think?	21:11
nuba	rizen: i was suggesting that to ckotil	21:12
+perlDreamer	yeah, I like it	21:12
@rizen	nuba: ok	21:12
@rizen	perlDreamer: you don't think that it adds too much clutter to have that extra tab?	21:13
+perlDreamer	rizen :I've been doing more API scheming, but I can't quite figure out how to put getEditForm from the Assets into TabForm, yet.	21:13
@rizen	i mean, i like it on CS for mail stuff, and on poll for graphing	21:13
+perlDreamer	I think it's better to have 1 extra tab that puts all the commerce stuff in 1 place	21:13
@rizen	i'm just worried that people might start getting peeved about over organization	21:13
+perlDreamer	Does anyone complain about settings?	21:13
@rizen	yes	21:13
@rizen	lots of people say that assets have too much to configure	21:14
@rizen	and are too difficutl	21:14
+perlDreamer	UI level	21:14
CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5604 /translations/Polish/Polish/Asset.pm: update_from_translation_server	21:14
@rizen	re api scheming, what's the trouble? is the asset definition just too different from the other ones?	21:14
+perlDreamer	it uses tabs	21:15
+perlDreamer	I have an idea on how to abstract it out, but haven't tried it yet	21:15
nuba	rizen: probably lots of people appreciate tabs too, but arent as vocal about it as the ones complaining	21:15
@rizen	nuba: good point	21:15
+perlDreamer	the other thing is that it keeps the vital stuff above the fold	21:15
perlmonkey2	So this is correct. I would set the template for editing surveys in the definition as a property. Then when I was processing the template, I would retrieve that setting with $self->getValue correct?	21:15
@rizen	yes	21:16
perlmonkey2	cool, thanks	21:16
@rizen	ok then, Commerce tab it is	21:16
+perlDreamer	I haven't asset'ed in a while, what's the difference between get and getValue?	21:17
nuba	get returns the property hash iirc	21:17
@rizen	get returns the raw value	21:18
@rizen	getValue returns the raw value if it exists	21:18
@rizen	otherwise gives you the default	21:18
@rizen	otherwise gives you the form processed value	21:18
@rizen	from the current post	21:18
@rizen	it just adds a little magic	21:18
@rizen	=)	21:18
@rizen	and as nuba says, get without a param will also return the property hash	21:19
+perlDreamer	I'm going to update the POD to say that, since it's a little sparse.	21:19
@rizen	great!	21:19
@rizen	ooh	21:21
@rizen	the form processed value is between raw and default	21:21
@rizen	methinks	21:21
+perlDreamer	I don't see any form processing in here.	21:21
+perlDreamer	it checks get, then it calls the definition sub	21:22
@rizen	oh that's right...it was removed	21:22
@rizen	in my original design for assets it was in there and then i removed it when i created the processPropertiesFromPost method	21:23
* rizen has so much rolling around in head, but no memory left for indexing		21:23
+perlDreamer	64 Mb	21:24
@rizen	28mb actually...some chips have gone bad over time	21:24
@rizen	only started with 32mb	21:24
nuba	that related to abusing from overclocking substances?	21:25
perlmonkey2	taht isn't bad, look how far Bill got with only 640kb	21:25
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CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5605 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm: Update the POD for get and getValue.	21:31
CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5606 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm: sideport new POD docs	21:31
+perlDreamer	this 3 branch thing is getting hard	21:35
+perlDreamer	get any plumbing done this weekend?	21:36
@rizen	no	21:44
@rizen	leaving it until spring	21:44
@rizen	need to be able to get to the outside of my house to see where some stuff goes	21:45
@rizen	and it's all buried in snow right now	21:45
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CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5607 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm: sideport new POD docs	21:50
wgGuest95	Hi!	21:52
wgGuest95	How do I change the layout of the new 7.5.3 gallery? Isn't it templated? (I'm new here btw ;-)	21:52
@preaction	yes it's templated, why wouldn't it be?	21:52
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wgGuest95	because I can't find it..	21:54
wgGuest95	http://beta.webgui.org/demo1203966363_142/home	21:54
@rizen	perlDreamer: i'm an absolute idiot	21:54
@preaction	just like any other asset, if you edit the asset's properties, go to the display tab, you see the list of templates being used.	21:55
wgGuest95	Have erased all standard templates, but none seems to be the "front" template of the gallery...	21:55
wgGuest95	(erased to make it easier to see the differences)	21:55
@rizen	i don't know why i never noticed before, but definition() is completely ass backwards...it should just output what it does, and each subsequent method should call it instead of pushing the new data down to the top	21:55
@preaction	wgGuest95, the "front" of the gallery is what you configured it to be on the Display tab, by default it's the List Albums view	21:56
@preaction	uhm... you can't just delete templates and expect this thing to work	21:57
@preaction	and the templates are still in the trash, which is why they still work	21:57
@preaction	has anyone run across the WRE's perl modules re-building their Makefile and needing to run build.sh multiple times?	21:58
@rizen	only if the date is off on the computer i'm working on	21:59
wgGuest95	just emptied the templates..	21:59
@preaction	that might explain it, i think the date is off	21:59
wgGuest95	"Default View" can't be edited...?!?	22:00
@preaction	of course it can	22:01
wgGuest95	there are no buttons behind it...	22:01
@preaction	it's not a template	22:01
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wgGuest95	I'll make another demo..	22:01
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wgGuest95	@preaction, mouse is empty :-( will continue tomorrow.. Think I've found out how it works. TNX!	22:10
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CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5608 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs):	22:35
CIA-21	WebGUI: Moved the Wiki Help link into i18n so it can be pointed to other sites for	22:35
CIA-21	WebGUI: other lanugages.	22:35
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jdan	Thanks for WRE 0.8.3. I can return to my work tommorow.	22:48
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+perlDreamer	rizen, do you mean just flattening the structure instead of having multiple arrays of hashes?	22:59
@rizen	no we need multiple arrays	23:00
@rizen	so we know which field goes in which table	23:00
@rizen	i'm just saying that the way it should work is like sub definition { return \%prop };	23:01
+perlDreamer	and define \%prop as a package variable?	23:01
@rizen	rather than definition (my $prop = shift; return %{$prop + other stuff}};	23:01
@rizen	no	23:02
@rizen	i'm just shortening it for irc	23:02
@rizen	let me type it out in a paste bin	23:02
+perlDreamer	thanks, my code abstraction unit is offline	23:02
+perlDreamer	I had to swap it out for the silicon layout analysis unit	23:02
CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5609 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (4 files in 4 dirs): finished sku base class	23:02
@rizen	http://webgui.pastebin.com/m76ee4d30	23:04
@rizen	if it were the way it should be then subclass methods would just add to the existing properties hash	23:05
@rizen	we'd end up with the same data structure	23:05
@rizen	but we wouldn't be passing the hashref both into and out of the def method at all levels	23:06
@rizen	it would always just keep coming out	23:06
@rizen	it really doesn't matter, it works fine. i just hate it when i realize years too late that i did a poor job of designing something	23:06
+perlDreamer	I hate that feeling, too	23:12
+perlDreamer	Speaking of which, I'm having another overboard moment	23:16
* diakopter throws perlDreamer overboard		23:16
+perlDreamer	I'm thinking of having calculate in the ShipDriver class throw an exception	23:16
+perlDreamer	to force people to override it in the child classes.	23:17
@rizen	fine by me	23:18
@rizen	ok i'm an idiot yet again	23:21
@rizen	i wrote the tests, then i wrote the class	23:21
+perlDreamer	you didn't use PEX in your plumbing project?	23:21
@rizen	and never ran the tests to see if it all worked	23:21
+perlDreamer	eh, we would have found out tomorrow anyway	23:22
@preaction	oh. did you want me to start testing other branches? like commerce?	23:22
@preaction	right now it's only 7.4 and trunk	23:22
+perlDreamer	hey! cool idea	23:22
+perlDreamer	Stay out of my HEAD!	23:23
+MrHairgrease	/me's head just exploded: http://www.shoutfile.com/v/TWdSb0Jj/The_Strangest_Internet_Video_Online_Ever	23:24
* perlDreamer does not have flash at $dayJob, how 'bout a quick summary?		23:24
+MrHairgrease	take a double dose of lsd and think of the animals	23:25
+MrHairgrease	nah	23:25
+MrHairgrease	that doesn't cut it	23:25
+MrHairgrease	check it out when you're at home	23:25
CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5610 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/HTMLForm.pm: remove debugging code	23:27
CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5611 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/ShipDriver.pm t/Shop/ShipDriver.t): force the overriding of the calculate class	23:27
CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5612 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (4 files in 4 dirs): fixing some bugs	23:27
+perlDreamer	yet again, the Dutch rock the cultural world	23:27
+perlDreamer	http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/02/invisible_clothing.html?CMP=OTC-0D6B48984890	23:27
@rizen	that's is definitely the strangest i've seen	23:27
@rizen	however, this is the coolest one i've seen in quite a while	23:27
@rizen	http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2008/02/09/insane-superhuman-french-people/	23:27
@rizen	shows people doing sholin soccer style moves, but in real life	23:28
+MrHairgrease	I always thought the french were superhuman...	23:34
perlmonkey2	templates should always be added via the asset manager and never just insert into the template table?	23:39
+perlDreamer	the way we do it now is via a package	23:39
+perlDreamer	there are some scripts for bootstrapping the process	23:39
perlmonkey2	Okay. For now though, I'll just use the asset manager.	23:40
@preaction	right	23:40
@preaction	build your templates using the existing asset system. put them into a folder under the import node (say, "Survey Templates"), and then when you release them, you make that folder into a package and put it in docs/upgrades/packages-X.X.X	23:41
wgGuest30	hello	23:50
wgGuest30	i have a question	23:50
+perlDreamer	what is it wgGuest30?	23:51
wgGuest30	i have created a dataform and one of the fields is a select box. By default if a put the values for it, the property value for each option is the same value that is show in the box	23:52
wgGuest30	how can i assing one value in the value property and other value to show to the user?	23:52
wgGuest30	is it posible?	23:52
@preaction	isn't it value => label?	23:53
@preaction	i thought that was in the hover help	23:53
+MrHairgrease	btw wgguest30, the way to get rid of the -leave empty- option in the sqlform is making the field required.	23:55
+MrHairgrease	dunno about the dataform question	23:55
wgGuest30	ok, Thanks MrHairgrease	23:55
+perlDreamer	Nope, it's flat	23:56
+perlDreamer	displayed option == value	23:56
+perlDreamer	no way to change it without changing the core code	23:56
+perlDreamer	see Asset/Wobject/Dataform.pm, lines 80 or so	23:56
wgGuest30	ok	23:58
* perlmonkey2 is chasing his tail trying to reverse engineer the survey module.		23:59
perlmonkey2	What is the simplest yet most recent module I can use as example code?	23:59
--- Day changed Tue Feb 26 2008
+perlDreamer	Asset/Snippet.pm	00:00
perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: Thanks :)	00:00
+perlDreamer	then, Asset/Wobject/Article.pm	00:00
wgGuest30	perlDreamer, but if i change the core code, can exist some risk in the future with an upgrade?	00:02
@rizen	perlmonkey2: the current survey code is very ugly...you shouldn't waste your time figuring out how it was done...instead write it from scratch, just use it's features as a guideline	00:02
@rizen	you may also want to look at the wobject tutorial in the wiki	00:03
perlmonkey2	rizen: I've been over it many times, I'm just trying not to learn stuff that is outdated. For example, I notice Article is still using @ISA instead of base.	00:04
@rizen	yeah many assets are still using that	00:05
@rizen	but that's a minor tweak	00:05
+perlDreamer	wgGuest30: definitely	00:08
+perlDreamer	rizen: I'm an idiot	00:10
@rizen	?	00:11
+perlDreamer	I didn't see far enough forward in making the _buildObj method in ShipDriver	00:11
+perlDreamer	because it doesn't cover inheritance	00:11
+perlDreamer	should be an easy tweak, but, sheesh	00:11
perlmonkey2	So you should have a property for every column in your collateral table?	00:16
+perlDreamer	basically, yes	00:16
@preaction	collateral tables no. asset table yes	00:16
+perlDreamer	although some classes in wG aggregate them all into 1 JSON string	00:16
+MrHairgrease	if you don't $self->update won't save em	00:16
@preaction	self->update doesn't do collateral, it does asset properties.	00:17
+MrHairgrease	i meant the asset table	00:17
@preaction	yeah, but did perlmonkey2?	00:17
+MrHairgrease	forgot to put one column in definition.	00:17
+MrHairgrease	i bet a case of beer that he did	00:18
+MrHairgrease	=)	00:18
perlmonkey2	Yes, I meant the asset table :)	00:18
+MrHairgrease	haha	00:18
+MrHairgrease	you owe me a case of beer preaction	00:18
+MrHairgrease	you can hand it over next wuc	00:18
@preaction	yeah, i'll get you some old milwaukee	00:19
perlmonkey2	doh	00:19
+MrHairgrease	what's old milwaukee	00:19
+MrHairgrease	?	00:19
@preaction	the worst of the worst of american beers	00:19
@preaction	tastes the same going in as it does going out	00:19
+MrHairgrease	oh that doesn't matter	00:19
+MrHairgrease	i was planning on sharing it anyway	00:20
+perlDreamer	so what's the plan for the WUC this year?	00:20
+perlDreamer	it's only two days long	00:20
+MrHairgrease	for starters attending i guess	00:20
* perlmonkey2 thought it was three		00:20
+MrHairgrease	it is two	00:20
+MrHairgrease	but with three tracks per day	00:20
@rizen	we changed the format due to feedback we got in our surveys from last year	00:21
@rizen	it used to be 3x2	00:21
@rizen	now it's 2x3	00:21
+perlDreamer	would it really have hurt HTML to define something more advanced than a Text field? Like have real type checking?	00:21
@rizen	same amount of content, just over a shorter period	00:21
+MrHairgrease	so the wuc's transposed?	00:22
@rizen	indeed	00:22
perlmonkey2	hah	00:22
@rizen	we had a bunch of requests asking for the wuc to be divided into beginner, intermediate, and advanced tracks	00:22
@rizen	and at the same time we had 3 or 4 requests saying that the 3 days was just too long (brain mush)	00:23
@rizen	so we transposed it	00:23
@rizen	to accommodate both requests	00:23
+perlDreamer	that doesn't give me enough time to get sick and worry about my slides	00:23
+MrHairgrease	pd: the best way to deal with that is by getting your talk scheduled directly after the keynote	00:24
perlmonkey2	well right on. Give me a free day to sight see.	00:25
@rizen	also...a lot of people attend the 2 days worth of workshops before the conference	00:25
+MrHairgrease	if you go party with the dutch you won't be able to	00:25
+MrHairgrease	ask Frank =)	00:25
CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5613 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Shop/ShipDriver.pm:	00:25
CIA-21	WebGUI: Make the private object constructor handle inheritance.	00:25
CIA-21	WebGUI: Fix a POD typo.	00:25
@rizen	so in the old format that is 5 days	00:25
+perlDreamer	curse you Perl, for doing exactly what you were told to do!	00:30
+perlDreamer	You bring my old, grey head down in shame	00:30
@preaction	how dare Perl be so presumptuous!	00:30
+perlDreamer	yes, even down to the grave (Sheol)	00:30
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* perlDreamer remembers to install the DWIM module next time		00:32
@rizen	perlDreamer, are you doing stuff like this: croak "Need a SKU item." unless (defined $item and $item->isa("WebGUI::Asset::Sku"));	00:42
@rizen	where you're checking the type of data being passed in as well as that it's defined?	00:43
@rizen	i'm wondering if i'm going too far	00:43
+perlDreamer	no, I use ref instead. that might be old school, though	00:43
@rizen	then again, i think you said you were actually going to check data structures at one point =)	00:43
+perlDreamer	croak "new requires a session object"	00:44
+perlDreamer	unless ref $session eq 'WebGUI::Session';	00:44
@rizen	well ref won't work for me since it will be a subclass of Sku	00:44
+perlDreamer	good point	00:44
+perlDreamer	is isa a method, or is it a subroutine call?	00:44
+perlDreamer	ah, it can be both	00:45
@rizen	on objects it's a method	00:45
@rizen	well at least that works	00:45
@rizen	good to know it can go both ways	00:45
+perlDreamer	flatRate is done, aside from calculate	00:45
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@rizen	you are on fire	00:46
+perlDreamer	I'm 70% idling at $dayJob	00:46
@rizen	i should have the cart finished by tomorrow afternoon (minus the web methods)	00:47
@rizen	so we can actually start testing integration points for tax and shipping	00:47
+perlDreamer	yeah!	00:47
@rizen	cart is mostly done at this point...one more method to go then i have to do cart item	00:47
+perlDreamer	we've written 88 tests so far	00:48
+perlDreamer	not a bad start	00:48
+perlDreamer	any news from Joeri?	00:48
@rizen	not bad at all...wondering where joeri and arjan are	00:48
@rizen	nope	00:48
+Radix_	Sounds good!	00:48
+Radix_	I'll be able to write up shipping info for australia post and aussie tax (all +10% GST here)	00:49
+perlDreamer	http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/living/2008/02/25/me.sbs.where.to.find.cash.cnn	00:50
* Radix_ heads off to work.		00:51
CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5614 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (4 files in 4 dirs):	00:51
CIA-21	WebGUI: Finish out the FlatRate driver, with tests and i18n.	00:51
CIA-21	WebGUI: Fix bugs found in ShipDriver by building a driver.	00:51
@rizen	Radix_ are you offering to fight the good fight and help with commerce dev?	00:52
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CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5615 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (3 files in 3 dirs): cart done, moving on to cart item	01:18
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+perlDreamer	okay, now how do I install this VMware thingy?	01:56
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@rizen	unzip the files	02:33
+perlDreamer	done	02:33
@rizen	then you should be able to import them into the player	02:34
@rizen	if you're on linux there is a command line tool	02:34
@rizen	like vmware-install or something	02:34
@rizen	but there should also be a way to do it in the gui	02:34
@rizen	i just haven't used a gui before except on mac	02:34
@rizen	and i know it's different there	02:34
+perlDreamer	you won't believe this one	02:35
+perlDreamer	we have an "old" vmware	02:35
+perlDreamer	it doesn't understand the vmx file	02:35
@rizen	oh	02:36
@rizen	yeah it needs a v2 compatible player	02:36
@rizen	i put that on getwebgui.com	02:36
@rizen	as a NOTE	02:36
+Radix-wrk	vmware server is free these days	02:37
+Radix-wrk	not sure what platforms it runs on tho	02:37
+Radix-wrk	other than windows I mean	02:38
+perlDreamer	which version of VMWare starts supporting v2?	02:38
+perlDreamer	this thing is 5.5.3, release in 2006	02:38
+perlDreamer	so not that old	02:38
@rizen	6	02:39
@rizen	or vmware fusion v1 on mac	02:39
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+perlDreamer	there's a converter...	02:43
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+perlDreamer	not that kind of converter	02:47
+perlDreamer	more fun tomorrow	02:47
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CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5616 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Shop/Ship.pm: add stub for Ship	02:57
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CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5617 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Shop/ (CartItems.pm Cart.pm): getting a little closer to having a complete cart	03:54
CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5618 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Shop/ (CartItems.pm CartItem.pm): oops, wrong name	03:54
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CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5619 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (4 files in 3 dirs): cart should be pretty much working at this point...now need to test and whatnot	04:50
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CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5620 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/t/SQL.t: backporting SQL.t fix for not having InnoDB tables	07:31
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CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5621 /translations/Dutch/ (10 files in 2 dirs): update_from_translation_server	15:22
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perlmonkey2	Well /. makes me sad today, that Blackboards ridiculous multiple roles patent has been upheld again.	16:03
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SynQ	heu	16:36
BartJol	Hi Synq, what's up?	16:39
SynQ	just loggin in	16:43
CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5622 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Asset_RichEdit.pm: update_from_translation_server	16:43
CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5623 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Asset_RichEdit.pm: update_from_translation_server	16:43
perlmonkey2	Does perl best practices cover tabs?	16:46
@apeiron	Tabs vs. spaces, you mean?	16:53
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GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: Templating login, account and the user's profile - Created on 2/26/2008 8:58 am by arjan http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/templating-login-account-and-the-users-profile	17:09
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: Templating login, account and the user's profile - Edited on 2/26/2008 9:00 am by arjan http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/templating-login-account-and-the-users-profile	17:11
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: Templating login, account and the user's profile - Edited on 2/26/2008 9:04 am by arjan http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/templating-login-account-and-the-users-profile	17:14
AMH_bob	@perlmonkey2: did you refer to http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6629079.html	17:19
CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5624 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Asset_RichEdit.pm: update_from_translation_server	17:20
AMH_bob	patening that should be a crime	17:20
perlmonkey2	AMH_bob: this /. article: http://news.therecord.com/News/article/312927	17:20
perlmonkey2	yes	17:21
perlmonkey2	no, that doesn't look like it	17:21
perlmonkey2	AMH_bob: This article has a summary of the patent: http://mfeldstein.com/blackboard_patents_the_lms	17:23
perlmonkey2	Basically it is a patent on multi-roled users in a LMS.	17:23
perlmonkey2	absolutely mind boggling that this patent stands.	17:24
perlmonkey2	I personally may have prior art from college apps I wrote.	17:24
AMH_bob	you could corner every market with patents like this, just change "course" in whatever you do and you've got the networked software coververed!	17:27
@rizen	it's not mind boggling that patents like this stand	17:28
@rizen	the US Patent and Trademark office is a joke	17:28
AMH_bob	why is that?	17:28
AMH_bob	ahj	17:28
@rizen	and the US Court system goes with whoever has the most money	17:28
AMH_bob	:'(	17:28
AMH_bob	Looks like you'll have to get a competitors software from abroard....	17:29
AMH_bob	like Europe	17:30
AMH_bob	:P	17:30
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wgGuest21	Hi	17:30
wgGuest21	I have a question about the register system in webgui	17:31
wgGuest21	How can i do to	17:31
wgGuest21	How can i do to when an user log on, the system inmediatly reply a welcome messaje mail?	17:35
BartJol	on login? or on registration?	17:36
wgGuest21	Registration	17:36
BartJol	I think it is in the settings, wait a moment	17:37
perlmonkey2	How could I remove every instance of a Survey in the system. I'm about to blow away the current survey module in my instance, and I don't want WG choking when tables schemas change and modules don't line up, just because a previous version contained an old survey.	17:37
BartJol	wgGuest21 it's in the settings, authentication	17:39
BartJol	there you can specify and enable a welcoming message	17:39
BartJol	the immediate is a bit tricky	17:39
BartJol	because the mail is handled by a workflow	17:39
BartJol	so it can take a few minutes	17:39
wgGuest21	How could i change the template?	17:41
BartJol	what do you want to do exactly	17:41
BartJol	?	17:41
@rizen	perlmonkey2: http://webgui.pastebin.com/d9f84703	17:41
perlmonkey2	thanks rizen	17:42
@rizen	np	17:42
wgGuest21	I would like to, that when an user are registred in my site, the system do a reply a personalized welcome messaje mail	17:43
BartJol	haha, Dutch translations are up to date again, those Arabs gave me a scare, Ehab probably	17:43
BartJol	aha	17:43
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perlmonkey2	"SELinux is preventing the /usr/sbin/httpd from using potentially mislabeled files /etc/shadow (shadow_t)."	17:44
@apeiron	I find it amusing how it's become a competition to keep translations more up to date than other people.	17:45
perlmonkey2	Why in the world would WG be trying to access my pwd shadow file?	17:45
@rizen	BartJol did SynQ tell you about the thing i emailed him yesterday?	17:45
BartJol	wgGuest21 I'm not sure whether there is a template for the welcoming message	17:45
BartJol	rizen refresh my memory, I didn't work yesterday and was having a hangover	17:46
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lisette	hello	17:46
BartJol	hi	17:46
CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5625 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Asset_RichEdit.pm: update_from_translation_server	17:46
@rizen	wgGuest21 see Settings > Messaging	17:46
BartJol	arg, I'm stupid	17:46
lisette	how to do a insert with a databaselink?	17:46
lisette	in a macro	17:46
@rizen	BartJol it was that i made a change to the help system in 7.5 so that the url to wiki.webgui.org is now contained in i18n rather than in the code, so you guys can point the dutch help to www.webgui-help.nl rather than wiki.webgui.org	17:47
BartJol	apeiron well if you make it a sport, it becomes a kind of fun...	17:47
@apeiron	BartJol, So it seems. :)	17:47
BartJol	he didn't tell me at all	17:47
BartJol	but that's very nice !	17:48
@rizen	you'll be able to make the change starting with 7.5.4	17:48
@rizen	anyway..i thought that would be good for the various international communities out there	17:48
BartJol	ah, do have to remember that	17:48
BartJol	thanks	17:48
@rizen	on friday (or any point after friday) go into the translation server and edit the "WebGUI" namespace. and find the "external help" label	17:49
@rizen	that's the one you want to edit	17:49
BartJol	ok, I'' make a note of that in my calender	17:49
@rizen	oh and it's a new label, so it won't be easy to miss	17:49
lisette	?	17:50
BartJol	well, the nice colours help	17:50
lisette	WebGUI::SQL::ResultSet->prepare ?	17:50
BartJol	hi lisette, you're writing a macro?	17:52
@rizen	BartJol has the i18n server gotten better lately with the improvements we've made?	17:52
BartJol	I think so	17:52
BartJol	nice to see the svn commit appear, that's really good	17:52
lisette	yes	17:53
BartJol	the direct download buttons are also nice	17:53
ckotil	anyone ever seen 'format a4 is redefined' when running search.pl --indexall ?	17:53
@rizen	nuba i think had the best idea...to make the namespace list scroll down to where you left off after each edit	17:53
BartJol	ah, yes, i noticed that too, that saves my arms	17:53
@rizen	ckotil no..but that is probably related to one of your indexer plugins	17:53
BartJol	thanks nuba	17:53
ckotil	could be.	17:54
@rizen	a4 is a page format	17:54
BartJol	lisette and you wanna have somethiing from the db to compare a value?	17:54
BartJol	are to print?	17:54
@rizen	so maybe you have a pdf or something that's in a4 legal format	17:54
ckotil	sounds plausible. thanks	17:54
BartJol	better to look whether you can request for it via the API	17:54
lisette	i need insert a value in othe database, and i have a $dblink	17:55
BartJol	aha	17:55
BartJol	I have that somewhere	17:55
ckotil	i have lots of pdf's now to index since turning webgui into a document repository inline with my websites.	17:55
BartJol	mmm only have the code to put a value in the db?	17:56
BartJol	wanna have?	17:56
lisette	i have a value in a variable	17:56
BartJol	that's no problem	17:56
BartJol	put a question mark on the place where you want your variable:	17:57
BartJol	$session->db->write("update users set karma=karma+(?) where userId=(?)",[$karmaraise,$user]);	17:57
BartJol	like that	17:57
BartJol	only have to make a new database link	17:57
BartJol	but I think, that can be doen via the api	17:57
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lisette	mmm but i don't need modified the database of webgui, is other database, an i do the database link in the macro	18:00
BartJol	$dbLink = WebGUI::DatabaseLink->new($session,$databaseLinkId);	18:00
lisette	yes	18:00
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lisette	and i need insert in this database	18:00
lisette	how to do?	18:00
lisette	WebGUI::SQL::ResultSet->prepare?	18:01
@rizen	$dblink->db->write($sql, [ $param ]);	18:01
lisette	thanks	18:01
@rizen	lisette	18:02
@rizen	http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds/7.4.25-stable/api/	18:02
@rizen	there you can find out how to use all the modules in webgui	18:02
BartJol	well try replace $session->db-> with $dbLink-> and see whether that works	18:02
BartJol	ah	18:02
BartJol	rizen is too fast for me	18:02
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perlmonkey2	23 attempts by httpd to access /etc/shadow and WG is not functioning, but gives no error message. I'm guessing WG is broke because selinux is stopping it from accessing the password shadow, but why would it need to touch the shadow file?	18:19
@rizen	it wouldn't	18:20
@rizen	webgui doesn't do that	18:20
* perlmonkey2 is a little freaked out		18:20
perlmonkey2	svn update shows my wg files perfectly match the repos.	18:21
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* rizen is very angry with perlDreamer		18:56
+perlDreamer	okay	18:56
+perlDreamer	what did I do this time?	18:56
+perlDreamer	It's hard to sound contrite on IRC	18:57
@rizen	you're making me look bad	18:57
@rizen	you've committed more code to commerce than i have	18:57
@rizen	=)	18:57
+perlDreamer	You own your own business, get published in journals and websites and _I'm_ making you look bad?	18:58
@rizen	i'm working hard to catch up though	18:58
+perlDreamer	Blame it on Tavis	18:58
@rizen	i just have to razz you a little	18:58
@rizen	it's fun	18:58
+perlDreamer	I'll just put out the same volume of code, but put bugs in it.	18:59
+perlDreamer	that way you can look thoughtful and careful	18:59
perlmonkey2	ah...silly question, but where are the passwords stored? I tried a fresh install of wg, but must have skipped a step because I didn't get the first time login new site steps.	19:00
+perlDreamer	auth table	19:00
+perlDreamer	called identifeir	19:00
@rizen	or do: insert into settings values ('specialState','init');	19:01
@rizen	that will get you your startup wizard again	19:01
perlmonkey2	hmm....well I deleted the pwd form userid 3 and trying to log in as admin without a pwd still isn't working.	19:02
perlmonkey2	strange that 123qwe didn't work	19:02
@rizen	you can't login without a password	19:02
perlmonkey2	ut oh	19:02
@rizen	webgui's smarter than that	19:03
@rizen	=)	19:03
perlmonkey2	do you use the crypt command?	19:03
+perlDreamer	it's an base64, MD5	19:03
@rizen	no it's an md5 hash	19:03
+perlDreamer	you can pull it from the create.sql file to replace it in the db	19:03
@rizen	or do the init script again	19:03
perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: then it should have been 123qwe....strange	19:03
@rizen	as stated above	19:03
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perlmonkey2	the survey system is doomed. I have the next two weeks to devote just to it, but I made little progress yesterday and today I'm chasing my tail with linux/wg/selinux issues.	19:09
@rizen	don't panic	19:09
@rizen	go back to your crap box...cuz at least it worked	19:09
@rizen	everything will work out just fine	19:10
@rizen	you should never switch hardware or OS mid-dev...i've learned that many times over through the years	19:10
* perlmonkey2 takes a deep breath.		19:12
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* perlDreamer recommends alternate nostril breathing		19:14
* rizen is feeling pretty happy about ye olde croak about now		19:14
+perlDreamer	croak?	19:14
@rizen	throwing errors	19:16
@rizen	croak	19:16
+perlDreamer	yeah	19:16
+perlDreamer	eval or else :)	19:16
@rizen	i keep screwing up all over the place because WebGUI::Shop::CartItem's constructors need a WebGUI::Shop::Cart object rather than a WebGUI::Session object	19:16
@rizen	and my croaks are telling me the right thing	19:16
+perlDreamer	at first I wasn't really in love with the idea, but making those mistakes myself have helped educate me	19:17
+perlDreamer	bug--	19:17
+perlDreamer	about half of my test code looks like eval { some_statement }; like ($@, qr/some error/, 'check for this');	19:20
CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5626 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (4 files in 2 dirs): tests are getting closer to working	19:20
+perlDreamer	do you think Shop::Ship needs a factory-style method? it has new and create, but no way to get rid of stuff.	19:23
@rizen	no way to get rid of stuff? what would it get rid of?	19:24
+perlDreamer	say that I wanted to delete a configured ShipDriver	19:24
+perlDreamer	I guess it could be disabled, that would do almost the same thing	19:24
@rizen	the ship driver has that though right?	19:24
+perlDreamer	yes	19:25
@rizen	so why would the manager need it?	19:25
@rizen	unless you wanted to add a method to delete all ship drivers or something	19:25
+perlDreamer	no	19:25
@rizen	like in WebGUI::Shop::Cart there is an empty() and a delete() method, but that removes everything from the cart and/or deletes the cart...each WebGUI::Shop::CartItem has the remove() method to get rid of the individual item	19:26
+perlDreamer	w.r.t Ship Drivers, that sounds like a dangerous button to me, because with 1 click you can destroy all your site's shipping data.	19:28
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GooeyOfSteel	beep	19:36
@rizen	yeah i agree pd	19:37
@rizen	why is gooeyofsteel beeping	19:38
nuba	guess hess back and happy about that...	19:38
nuba	-s	19:38
perlmonkey2	someone should put a "# vim:ft=perl" at the top of the skeletons :)	19:39
perlmonkey2	so vim views them as perl	19:40
+MrHairgrease	my vim detects perl files by extension	19:40
+MrHairgrease	and since you never edit a skeleton directly	19:41
+MrHairgrease	it would be useless to put that in	19:41
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perlmonkey2	But I have the skeleton open for reference, so it is nice to have it high lighted.	19:45
@rizen	pm2 should know where to post rfe's	19:50
+perlDreamer	small rfe's with patches are often added the same day they're approved	19:59
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perlmonkey2	Error loading WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Survey! - Unknown error	20:06
perlmonkey2	I'm just out of luck: http://webgui.pastebin.com/d36fcec8b	20:06
+perlDreamer	you're a vim user?	20:07
+MrHairgrease	you see that appearing in your webgui.log?	20:07
+perlDreamer	try :!perl -wc -I /data/WebGUI/lib %	20:07
perlmonkey2	MrHairgrease: yes	20:08
+MrHairgrease	perlDreamer everyone with common sense is a vim user =)	20:08
+perlDreamer	that's dash capital eye :)	20:08
+MrHairgrease	never seen that	20:08
+MrHairgrease	the unkonw error error that is	20:08
+perlDreamer	it's how to syntax check a file	20:08
perlmonkey2	No, that is in httpd/error.log	20:08
@rizen	or just go to the lib folder and type perl -c WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey.pm	20:08
+perlDreamer	for tests, you use :!perl -wc -I /data/WebGUI/lib -I /data/WebGUI/t/lib %	20:08
perlmonkey2	ahah, thanks!	20:09
* perlmonkey2 should be recording his learning experiences in a wiki/blog somewhere.		20:09
+MrHairgrease	found the problem?	20:10
* perlmonkey2 would be if his webgui instance wasn't also his dev instance and contantly broken :)		20:10
perlmonkey2	yes	20:10
+perlDreamer	what is it?	20:10
+MrHairgrease	syntax prolly	20:11
perlmonkey2	I'd say what it was, but then you would all point and laugh at me (bareword WebGUI::Asset::Wobject not allowed) in my use base.	20:11
+perlDreamer	oh no, I wouldn't laugh	20:11
+perlDreamer	I read over that 3 times and never saw it	20:11
perlmonkey2	just mock :P	20:11
@rizen	i would: hahahahahaahahahahah	20:11
perlmonkey2	heh	20:12
+perlDreamer	people only laugh at you if you break webgui	20:12
* MrHairgrease laughs about everything		20:12
@rizen	people are laughing at me all day long	20:12
+perlDreamer	or crying	20:12
+perlDreamer	because there's nothing better than listening to the lamentations of the women and children	20:12
+perlDreamer	preaction: which movie?	20:13
@preaction	Conan the Barbarian?	20:13
+perlDreamer	yup	20:13
+perlDreamer	It's good to see the psychic link is still up	20:13
@rizen	you forgot, "to watch your enemies driven before you"	20:14
@preaction	"Conan! What is the greatest thing in life?" "CRUSH YOUR ENEMIES! SEE THEM DRIVEN BEFORE YOU! AND HEAR THE LAMENTATION OF THEIR WOMEN!"	20:14
+perlDreamer	and don't worry about the tests not showing up on the smoke test, they'll show up tomorrow	20:14
@rizen	Can you get her? Yeah Andy, I don't have her shoved down my pants right now, I'm sorry to say. But I'll get her.	20:22
@rizen	out of context, it's just so dirty	20:23
@preaction	Rita Hayworth!	20:23
@preaction	and the Shawshank Redemption	20:24
@rizen	alright pd, before we get too far in commerce i'm thinking we should investigate throwing error objects not just throwing errors	20:26
@rizen	what do you think?	20:26
@preaction	yes, yes, oh god yes?	20:31
@preaction	oh. pD not pA	20:31
* perlmonkey2 has always liked the idea of exception objects		20:31
+perlDreamer	I'm cool with objects	20:32
+perlDreamer	my WGBP book is at home though, what's the helper module for doing that?	20:32
+perlDreamer	Is it Exception::Class?	20:35
@preaction	sounds right	20:36
+perlDreamer	so, I've been wondering, are you pre-action, or p-reaction?	20:36
@preaction	most important distinction you can make is: Error with Loading v. Not Found	20:37
@preaction	Pre-action	20:37
@preaction	perlbot preaction	20:37
perlbot	for every action there is a preaction	20:37
@rizen	i think i'd rather investigate the exception objects on our own	20:38
@rizen	rather than go with what they recommend blindly	20:38
@rizen	cuz their recommendation for inside out objects was not good	20:38
+perlDreamer	gotcha, blinders off :)	20:38
+perlDreamer	http://search.cpan.org/search?m=all&q=exception&s=1	20:38
@preaction	oh, we're not doing inside-out objects anymore? i just got the hang of them...	20:39
@rizen	i still don't exactly understand how it works either...i've played a bit, but it seems like a huge amount of work to use them	20:39
@rizen	no we are preaction	20:39
@preaction	k	20:39
@rizen	we're just not using their recommended package for them	20:39
@rizen	we're using Class::InsideOut	20:39
@preaction	i think exception objects are as easy as: if (notfound) { die WebGUI::Exception->notFound( $id ); }	20:40
@preaction	i suppose, it's another interface to be designed	20:40
+perlDreamer	yeah, would each class define its own exceptions? There are some that we should inherit (like missing session object)	20:41
@rizen	that's the part that makes more work	20:42
@rizen	we have to define a bunch of exception classes	20:42
@preaction	i would think invalidArguments would be one exception, then you'd add text about which argument was invalid and what it should be	20:42
@rizen	sure	20:43
@rizen	but there's lots of other stuff that we're checking for	20:43
@preaction	i'd say start off with a couple useful ones, ones that can be handled by the caller, and dump the rest under "fatal" or "unrecoverable"	20:43
@rizen	like in the cart did you try to add too many to the cart	20:43
+perlDreamer	or in ShipDriver->new trying to call a driver by id that does not exist	20:44
@rizen	object didn't exist could be a general one...and subclass it if you need to...but regardless that is one more we'll need	20:44
@preaction	might be able to get away with defining WebGUI::Exception::Fatal and WebGUI::Exception::Error, then, if necessary, further granulation for special types of errors	20:45
@preaction	or something similar	20:45
@preaction	Fatal::NotFound Error::Cart::InvalidItem	20:45
@preaction	ew... now it's getting complicated	20:45
+perlDreamer	how about, more generally, NotFound (fetch from db, fetch from filesystem)	20:46
+perlDreamer	InvalidItem (bad child)	20:47
+perlDreamer	also, Exception::Class is looking pretty good.	20:47
+perlDreamer	Exception:Simple uses Moose	20:47
@rizen	fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck	20:47
@rizen	pd could use a second opinion	20:47
@rizen	i'm chasing my own tail here	20:47
+perlDreamer	stop fucking :)	20:47
+perlDreamer	what's up?	20:48
@rizen	just checked in again, update	20:48
@rizen	then run Cart.t	20:48
@rizen	i can't figure out what i'm doing wrong, but incrementing quantity doesn't work	20:48
@rizen	been looking at this for 2 hours now	20:49
@rizen	and it's super basic	20:50
@rizen	apparently the fucks helped	20:50
@rizen	just figured it out	20:50
+perlDreamer	what is it?	20:51
@rizen	my $id = $self	20:51
@rizen	rather than	20:51
@rizen	my $id = id $self	20:51
+perlDreamer	id $self	20:51
+perlDreamer	oh	20:51
@rizen	man that was frustrating	20:52
@rizen	i hate spinning my wheels on small stuff	20:52
+perlDreamer	breaking encapsulation is dangerous, even inside the class	20:52
@rizen	anyway, the cart is now complete	20:52
@rizen	sometimes you sound like you're speaking another language	20:53
+perlDreamer	Cuando la encapsulacion es roto, crece el peligro	20:53
@rizen	exactly	20:53
@rizen	did i tell you i'm operating with a 25% packet loss	20:54
+perlDreamer	No.	20:54
+perlDreamer	I'l	20:54
+perlDreamer	l t	20:54
+perlDreamer	ry	20:54
+perlDreamer	to	20:54
+perlDreamer	use	20:54
+perlDreamer	onl	20:54
+perlDreamer	y 3	20:54
@rizen	i'm suprised i can even stay connected to irc	20:54
+perlDreamer	let	20:54
+perlDreamer	ter	20:54
+perlDreamer	s	20:54
+perlDreamer	Sounds like another plumbing problem	20:54
CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5627 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (3 files in 2 dirs): very close to working	21:02
CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5628 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Shop/CartItem.pm: fixed last problem. cart works !!!!	21:02
@rizen	after looking at it, i think you're right Exception::Class is the way to go	21:04
@rizen	so now the question is do we actually create exception modules	21:09
@rizen	or just do exceptions inline in the class	21:09
@rizen	like the documentation shows	21:09
* perlmonkey2 went to make more coffee and the water made my eyes tear with the smell of chlorine. So sad.		21:09
* perlDreamer is at the gym		21:12
perlmonkey2	Can I make an autogenerate form go to another url upon save?	21:14
perlmonkey2	like www_editSurvye ?	21:14
@rizen	yes put a hidden field in there	21:14
@rizen	called "proceed"	21:14
perlmonkey2	ahah, cool	21:14
perlmonkey2	I'm guessing you mean in the definition?	21:15
perlmonkey2	or in the the properties/	21:15
@preaction	the value is the www_ sub that will be gone to (same as func=). there are some special values, see www_editSave for example)	21:15
@preaction	no. just the form, getEditForm	21:15
@rizen	if this is for the default edit form then yes in the definition	21:15
@preaction	why? then he'd need a column in the asset table, no?	21:16
@rizen	nope	21:16
@rizen	you can override that	21:16
@rizen	looking up the thing now	21:16
perlmonkey2	it is in the definition not properities	21:16
perlmonkey2	I thought only properties needed columns in the table.	21:17
@rizen	it's in the properties part of the definition	21:18
@rizen	and add noFormPost=>1 to the definition of that property	21:18
perlmonkey2	okay	21:18
perlmonkey2	so "editForward => {proceed=>'editSurvey',noFormPost=>1}"	21:19
perlmonkey2	and probably type=>'hidden'	21:20
@preaction	no, proceed => { type => 'hidden', value => 'editSurvey', noFormPost => 1 }, <-- should work	21:21
perlmonkey2	ah-hah	21:21
perlmonkey2	thanks	21:21
perlmonkey2	I'm afraid to commit anything since if I change a table schema, will WG break if there is a versioned instance of an asset with the old def?	21:23
@preaction	no	21:25
@preaction	as long as the new column exists, and the definition is correct, the old versions of the asset will be instanciated fine	21:25
@preaction	that's how we add new templates / data to existing assets during upgrade scripts	21:25
perlmonkey2	got it	21:26
* rizen is going offline for cable guy shortly will be back		21:27
perlmonkey2	good luck	21:27
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perlmonkey2	type=>'hidden' didn't hide it from the autogenerate	21:29
perlmonkey2	proceed => { value => "editSurvey", noFormPost => 1, type => 'hidden', }, shows a text field with a default value of editSurvey	21:30
@preaction	fieldType then	21:30
+MrHairgrease	it is fieldType indeed	21:31
perlmonkey2	DOH	21:31
perlmonkey2	DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Unknown column 'proceed' in 'field list' at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL/ResultSet.pm line 135.	21:36
perlmonkey2	noFormPost => 1,	21:36
perlmonkey2	Should I give up on autogenerate and build a tabform for the new asset page?	21:37
@preaction	change it to noForm and see	21:37
@preaction	otherwise, there's an easy way to do it without having to build the whole thing yourself	21:37
+MrHairgrease	no	21:38
+MrHairgrease	noFormPost should work	21:38
+MrHairgrease	can you paste your entire module in the pastebin?	21:38
perlmonkey2	j/s, but this version has noFomr	21:39
@preaction	it's not working due to changes in Asset->update, it sets all columns to their default value if they are not passed into the sub and they don't already have a true-like value in a previous revision	21:39
@preaction	that change makes it possible to define only those columns which you deem necessary when building an asset using code (with Asset->addChild( { props } )	21:40
perlmonkey2	http://pastebin.com/d1c0af340	21:40
+MrHairgrease	pm it should be noFormPost, even if that doesn't work =)	21:41
+MrHairgrease	noForm is just wrong	21:41
@preaction	here's what you'll have to do: remove that thing from the definition, it won't work	21:42
@preaction	two: override getEditForm to call the superclass getEditForm, grab the WebGUI::TabForm from that, and add the proceed hidden field to that tabform	21:42
+MrHairgrease	a workaround would be this:	21:42
+MrHairgrease	well what preacxtion says	21:42
@preaction	sub getEditForm { my $self = shift; my $tabform = $self->SUPER::getEditForm(@_); $tabform->getTab("properties")->hidden( properties here ); return $tabform; }	21:43
perlmonkey2	ah......that is very convoluted.	21:43
+MrHairgrease	no it isn't	21:43
perlmonkey2	Wouldn't it be cleaner to just create my own tabform?	21:43
+MrHairgrease	it looks convoluted b/c irc doesn't format it	21:44
@preaction	good lord, do you want to add every single thing in your definition, and all your superclasses definitions? do you want to edit your getEditForm every time the Asset->definition changes?	21:44
perlmonkey2	Okay, I'll just make sure to document it so it is clear to any dummies like me who follow, what is going on.	21:44
+MrHairgrease	it regularly use autogenerate icm getEditForm for specific complex forms that just make definition unreadable	21:44
@preaction	it's simple OO, inheritence and extending	21:44
perlmonkey2	Right, but WG has a ton of libraries with a lot of inheritence going on. Hard for noobs to get it all in their heads.	21:46
perlmonkey2	I'm guessing I need all three values from the hash?	21:47
@apeiron	Hmm. Maybe some kind of class diagram would help?	21:47
@apeiron	Something that you can look at and say "Okay, this particular wG class inherits from this, and this inherits from this, so it has these methods, and these methods..."	21:48
perlmonkey2	Yay, UML (not)	21:48
+MrHairgrease	pm: http://pastebin.com/m593ca3ad	21:49
@apeiron	perlmonkey2, I meant something mortals can understand. :D	21:49
perlmonkey2	That's what I have :)	21:49
perlmonkey2	well, but with noFormPost	21:50
+MrHairgrease	that's not necessary	21:50
+MrHairgrease	and don't forget to remove the whole proceed thingy from the definition	21:50
+MrHairgrease	preaction: noFormPost not working would be a bug, right?	21:51
@preaction	no, noFormPost is working, it's Asset->update that's setting "proceed" to its defaultValue. the alternative is that update doesn't set all things to their default values	21:52
+MrHairgrease	ok, so what's noFormPost good for then?	21:52
@preaction	making sure a column isn't automatically processed by Asset.pm->processPropertiesFromFormPost	21:53
@preaction	the column itself has to exist, yes, but it won't be set unless you explicitly set it	21:55
+MrHairgrease	yeah, i understand	21:55
+MrHairgrease	but why require the column	21:56
+MrHairgrease	?	21:56
@preaction	it's a side-effect of a change to Asset.pm->update to make it easier for a developer to use addChild	21:57
+MrHairgrease	oh well	21:57
+MrHairgrease	it's easy enough to work around, but it still feels weird	21:57
+MrHairgrease	anyway, i'm gonna grab some food	21:57
+MrHairgrease	later	21:57
-!- MrHairgrease is now known as MrAfkGrease		21:58
@preaction	eh, i've always just assumed anything in the definition properties is a column in the database	21:59
perlmonkey2	Did I mess up and if proceed is going to editSurvey then my sub has to be www_editSurvey as anything without a www_ can't be redirected to in a url?	22:00
@preaction	right	22:01
perlmonkey2	cool	22:01
@preaction	www_ is accessible as a page, nothing else	22:01
perlmonkey2	I'm setting $out = 'testing text'; and not seeing that.	22:02
perlmonkey2	doens't look like www_editSurvey is getting redirected to.	22:03
perlmonkey2	looks like the default templateId is being shown.	22:03
+MrAfkGrease	chcek your webgui log	22:04
+MrAfkGrease	if something fucks up you usually get the view method shown	22:04
+MrAfkGrease	and that is also shown if your func=blabla doesn't return anything btw	22:05
-!- MrAfkGrease is now known as MrReallyAfkGreas		22:05
perlmonkey2	wtf, my last entry in webgui.log is 45 minutes ago.	22:08
* perlmonkey2 must be retarded cause it can't be this hard.		22:08
-!- estiven [n=erestrep@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has joined #webgui		22:09
@preaction	WebGUI/etc/log.conf <- see where your webgui.log is going. it might be /var/log/webgui.log	22:11
perlmonkey2	that is where it is going.	22:13
perlmonkey2	and spectre just wrote to it.	22:13
perlmonkey2	But I'm not seeing antyhing else.	22:13
perlmonkey2	anything I can do to force a write to the logs just ot make sure?	22:14
@preaction	$self->session->errorHandler->warn("Hi!");	22:15
@preaction	make sure the LogLevel is set to something higher than Error, like WARN or DEBUG or INFO	22:15
perlmonkey2	Couldn't call method editSave on asset for url: home Root cause: Can't locate object method "process" via package "PBtmpl0000000000000062" (perhaps you forgot to load "PBtmpl0000000000000062"?) at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm line 2010.	22:24
perlmonkey2	I don't know if that comes from this or not: my $out = $self->processTemplate(\%var,undef,$self->getValue("surveyEditTemplateId"));	22:24
@preaction	most likely. the third argument to processTemplate() is an already instanciated template object	22:25
@preaction	the second argument is a templateId	22:25
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perlmonkey2	okay, then that is the mistake. Whew, that was painful.	22:25
-!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		22:29
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@preaction	eh. every problem has a solution, and every solution teaches about problems	22:29
perlmonkey2	If a properties has a defaultvalue of a template that exists, shouldn't I be able to ->getValue?	22:29
perlmonkey2	and that be a instantiated template that processTemplate will take as a third arguement?	22:30
perlmonkey2	I see that in a lot of other code.	22:30
@preaction	no. the third argument that looks like $self->{_viewTemplate} is the template from sub prepareView, already instantiated and prepared	22:31
@preaction	getValue only returns the exact value from the template	22:31
@preaction	so either you're reading it wrong, or the code you're reading is wrong	22:31
perlmonkey2	Matrix.pm doesn't seem to instantiate compareTemplateId anywhere	22:32
jdan	I need some advice. How is the best way to make blog for registered users in WebGUI? What wobjects are the best, etc.	22:32
perlmonkey2	Collaboration	22:32
@preaction	collaboration system, yes	22:33
jdan	Does Collaboration work without administrative access? I know many wobjects, but not Collaboration	22:34
perlmonkey2	Yes, you can set which groups have access to do whatever.	22:34
perlmonkey2	read, edit	22:34
@preaction	add posts, add threads	22:34
jdan	ok, thanks	22:34
perlmonkey2	So I will have to manually instantiate any template identified in the properties?	22:37
+perlDreamer	yes	22:37
@preaction	no	22:37
@preaction	$self->processTemplate( $var, $templateId ); instanciates and processes all in one go	22:37
perlmonkey2	okay, that was going to be my next question...thanks	22:37
@preaction	don't forget to encase that inside the style template: return $self->processStyle( $self->processTemplate( $var, $templateId ) );	22:38
perlmonkey2	But I haven't seen that in any of the other modules?	22:38
@preaction	the view method already has a style template, any www_ methods that you want the style template around need to have processStyle	22:39
+perlDreamer	most of the other modules (the ones I mentioned yesterday), don't have multiple editing screens	22:39
@apeiron	Anything I need to know before committing the new YUI?	22:39
@preaction	the GalleryAlbum is a good example for this	22:39
@apeiron	Finally got the bugs I saw worked out of the new textarea resizing thing.	22:39
@preaction	you figured out the ie6 reflow thing?	22:41
@apeiron	ack, hm	22:42
@apeiron	I was looking at a different issue, namely, that textarea fields for assets weren't being updated on www_editSave. :)	22:43
@preaction	eh, i'd still say commit it and work out that problem later	22:43
@preaction	it works, it just looks weird	22:43
@apeiron	rizen had told me I can commit it with that issue and then fix it afterwards.	22:44
@apeiron	Testing it again in IE6 just to see if it's still there.	22:45
@rizen	yup	22:45
@preaction	right, that's what i'm suggesting too	22:45
@rizen	but if you don't fix it in a reasonable amount of time then i will send Guido to your house with a baseball bat	22:45
@preaction	the big JS things i'd make sure still works: Calendar Event Edit, Calendar Edit Feeds	22:45
@apeiron	Guido the python guy?	22:45
@preaction	Luca Brasi	22:45
@apeiron	I hate Web browsers.	22:49
@apeiron	(can I get that as an epithet?)	22:49
@rizen	guido the internet tough guy: http://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/internet-tough-guy.png	22:49
@apeiron	Add a calendar and it's not displaying anything by default in IE when you view its parent page layout. Works fine in FF.	22:50
@apeiron	(no errors, either, of course)	22:51
perlmonkey2	woohoo, okay, now that I have some basic wg skillz to make things happen, the only thing left to decide before importing my template, is to wrap it in processStyle or not? Without it, there is a lot more space to drag stuff around. But with it, the user gets to play "inside" his webgui install.	22:52
perlmonkey2	I'm leaning towards not using processStyle as it gives the user more room, and less buttons to push on tha tmight ruin their ajax session.	22:53
@preaction	processStyle probably isn't necessary on the editSurvey page, but if there are other pages (like reports or anything), those will need it	22:54
@rizen	If you don't use processStyle, be sure to provide them a link to get out of the editor without saving.	22:55
perlmonkey2	Okay.	22:55
@apeiron	Hmm, now that I look at it, it works that way on the demo site, too.	22:55
@apeiron	Compare http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1204058107_200/home with IE6 and FF. Interesting.	22:56
perlmonkey2	Ah, what URL will the ajax calls be made to? "home/?func=updateAJAXWhatever;class=WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Survey"	22:56
@preaction	perlmonkey2, they'll be made whereever you want them to, but most likely "surveyUrl"	22:57
@rizen	no	22:57
@rizen	preaction is right	22:57
@rizen	and you'll do that like this	22:57
@rizen	$self->getUrl("func=mymethod");	22:58
@rizen	my $url = $self->getUrl("func=mymethod");	22:58
perlmonkey2	$var{'updateQuestionsPostback'} = $self->getUrl("func=www_updateQuestions");?	22:59
@rizen	no www_	22:59
perlmonkey2	okay	22:59
@rizen	but other than that yes	22:59
+perlDreamer	func=updateQuzstions	22:59
perlmonkey2	sweet!	22:59
perlmonkey2	So I'm guessing my .js will need to be templates so that they always have the correct urls in them.	23:00
perlmonkey2	or else make them hidden params in the html and have the .js grab the urls from there.	23:01
@preaction	no. your best bet would be <form action="post"><input type="hidden" name="func" value="whatever"/>	23:02
@preaction	without a URL, it will post back to the URL the user is on	23:02
@preaction	and the func=editSurvey will always be at the survey's URL	23:02
@apeiron	Hmm. Is it a known bug that removing feeds from calendars doesn't actually do the remove with IE6?	23:03
* apeiron goes and looks.		23:03
@rizen	pm2: you should make most of your javascript into classes that can just exist in /extras	23:03
@rizen	and then make your templates instantiate those classes and pass the urls and other parameters in at object creation time	23:03
perlmonkey2	rizen: Okay, that seems easy, so I like it.	23:04
perlmonkey2	in the template have <script>var survey = new Survey({addSurvey=<tmpl var=addSurvey> ...});</script> //if I got the syntanx even remotely correct.	23:05
+perlDreamer	Did the cable guy find your lost packets, rizen?	23:05
@rizen	nope	23:06
@rizen	he's sending out another guy to search for them	23:06
@rizen	he knows they're not in my house	23:06
@rizen	he checked all the closets and everything	23:06
+perlDreamer	maybe they got washed away when the plumbing broke?	23:06
@rizen	he thinks they might be on the street	23:06
perlmonkey2	My neighbors tree grew through my cable	23:07
perlmonkey2	now it runs above ground down my fence line until they can bring out a trench digger.	23:08
+perlDreamer	fiber is much better	23:09
+perlDreamer	if the power goes out, you just hook up a flashlight and turn it on and off fast	23:09
@apeiron	Or you just use your battery backups. :)	23:09
@rizen	the problem is that i live in an old part of town right down near the capitol...so i'm sure the cabling hasn't been updated for 100 years	23:09
@rizen	in fact, the neighborhood i live in is called "First Settlement", because the first house in madison was built only 2 blocks from here.	23:10
* perlDreamer starts day dreaming about TeddyWedgers again		23:10
+perlDreamer	Portland is barbaric, no known pastie restaurants in the area	23:10
+perlDreamer	but you can get a mean yakisoba burrito	23:11
@rizen	that's terrible pd	23:11
+perlDreamer	hm	23:12
+perlDreamer	I need to build a franchise, and while my pasty-making minions serve food I can hack perl.	23:13
ckotil	when i hear pasty i think of janet jackson and her wardrobe malfunction.	23:14
perlmonkey2	JSON is a WG req, right?	23:14
ckotil	amd i waay off the mark?	23:14
+perlDreamer	pm2: yup	23:14
+perlDreamer	ckotil: I'll pray for your salvation	23:15
ckotil	ah pastie. nice.	23:15
+perlDreamer	when adding things to people's config files (like shipping drivers) do we need to do an existance check first? To avoid overwriting stuff that might already be there?	23:18
CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5629 /translations/Polish/Polish/Asset.pm: update_from_translation_server	23:18
-!- rizen_ [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui		23:22
rizen_	don't know if anybody said anything about the namespace thing because the cable gods are cruel	23:23
+perlDreamer	when adding things to people's config files (like shipping drivers) do we need to do an existance check first? To avoid overwriting stuff that might already be there?	23:24
rizen_	no you add to what's there	23:25
+perlDreamer	okay	23:25
rizen_	WebGUI::Config will handle the rest	23:25
rizen_	cuz it's smart	23:25
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-!- rizen_ is now known as rizen		23:30
-!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ		23:30
CIA-21	WebGUI: chrisn * r5630 /WebGUI/www/extras/ (yui extjs): Remove the old YUI directory to make way for 2.5.0. Remove extjs as it's no longer needed.	23:33
cap10morgan	Is it possible to simulate clicking the editForm's Save button from a wobject's Perl test suite?	23:34
@apeiron	I need to put an entry in gotcha.txt documenting the ext/YUI changes, yes?	23:34
+perlDreamer	cap10morgan: maybe....	23:34
@preaction	cap10morgan, sure, with WWW::Mechanize	23:34
+perlDreamer	not with the current test suite for sure though	23:35
+perlDreamer	preaction: what happened to last night's test runs?	23:35
cap10morgan	preaction: really, as long it triggers the same code in my wobject, i don't care that it looks 100% like clicking that button to WebGUI	23:35
@preaction	cap10morgan, then call www_editSave using WebGUI::Test::getPage	23:35
cap10morgan	preaction: cool, thanks	23:36
@preaction	perlDreamer, not sure. I tried to install WRE 0.8.3 and failed, settled for re-installing 0.8.1 and updating the JSON stuff. i'll have to check on it	23:36
+perlDreamer	I think I fixed the failing test last night	23:37
cap10morgan	hmm, i'm not seeing WebGUI::Test::getPage	23:38
+perlDreamer	you need to run 7.5	23:38
cap10morgan	ah, i see	23:39
cap10morgan	ok	23:39
+perlDreamer	it's in t/lib/WebGUI/Test, also	23:39
-!- arjancwidlak [n=arjan@widnet.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui		23:41
arjancwidlak	who	23:41
@preaction	who dat	23:41
arjancwidlak	sorry, typo, wanted to see who's there	23:42
arjancwidlak	He, preaction, I've a question about using subversion not tthat there are two releases;	23:42
* apeiron waits for "Transmitting file data..."		23:42
+perlDreamer	long wait, dude.	23:42
@apeiron	Yeah	23:43
+perlDreamer	thanks for locking SVN for us :)	23:43
@apeiron	New YUI.	23:43
@apeiron	Hey, there we go.	23:43
arjancwidlak	there is a branch WebGUI_7.4 and a 'default' that's mentioned in the wiki https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/WebGUI/	23:44
arjancwidlak	I suppose I should use the branch WebGUI_7.4 for bugfixes?	23:44
@preaction	depends, if the bugfix is for 7.4, then you need to submit them to both branches	23:44
@preaction	i forget how it works best for Haarg. if you submit to just 7.4 or to both	23:45
arjancwidlak	Ok, clear. And a a feature request such as this one: http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/add-cancel-button-on-editing-listing-page-of-a-matrix	23:45
@Haarg	RFE's should always be against trunk	23:46
arjancwidlak	Ok, and a suppose thats the default url in the wiki: https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/WebGUI/	23:47
@Haarg	yeah	23:47
arjancwidlak	Ok, thanks.	23:47
@Haarg	if you post a bug fix, as long as you specify whether it was made using trunk or the branch, either is ok	23:48
cap10morgan	is it still true that you cannot upgrade to 7.5.x from anything newer than 7.4.21?	23:48
@Haarg	yes	23:49
@Haarg	unless you want to do it manually	23:49
arjancwidlak	Ok, but I wanted to know this because I tried to make a nice diff.	23:49
CIA-21	WebGUI: chrisn * r5631 /Too many paths:	23:49
CIA-21	WebGUI: * resizable text areas now use the YUI 2.5.0 code	23:49
CIA-21	WebGUI: * add the new YUI release	23:49
CIA-21	WebGUI: * document the change in both the changelog and gotcha.txt	23:49
@apeiron	There we go.	23:49
* apeiron pats CIA-21.		23:49
@Haarg	usually if a bug shows up on trunk and branch, applying it to both is simple	23:50
@apeiron	I documented my changes in gotcha.txt and the changelog. Is there anything else I need to do?	23:51
@preaction	nope, you should be fine	23:51
@apeiron	I recognise that this is a pretty big change and want it to go over as smoothly as possible.	23:51
arjancwidlak	What I've done is this: I made two directories: WebGUI_7.4 and WebGUI-svn. In the first I did "svn checkout" with the branch and in the second with the trunc. With swich_webgui.pl I switch between the two. Now I wanted to make a diff against both these versions. The head of my diff is the same however: it says: lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Matrix.pm revision 5630	23:52
@preaction	they are both at the same revision yes	23:52
arjancwidlak	How do I see the difference between the two in my diff? Not?	23:52
@preaction	if you make your changes to one branch, before you check in the changes, you can use "svn diff" to get a diff of all your changes	23:52
@preaction	if you just submitted your changes, and you know what revision they were submitted as, you can do "svn diff -c#" to get the changes in that revision	23:53
@rizen	arjanwidlak: just to be clear is WebGUI_7.4 just a webgui install, or is it also checked out of subversion?	23:54
arjancwidlak	It's also checked out of subversion	23:54
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wgGuest17	Hi	23:55
@preaction	hi	23:57
arjancwidlak	So, here http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/add-cancel-button-on-editing-listing-page-of-a-matrix I should have added that I made this changed against the latest stable and here http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/wiki-links-to-pages-in-trash#_xzeUHJMSh6owkRNnMQZTg I should have said I made these changes against trunc. And what I should have done is: test the bugfix against both versions and made the RFE for the beta.	23:59
--- Day changed Wed Feb 27 2008
@preaction	right	00:00
arjancwidlak	Ok, I will add that to these threads.	00:00
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+MrReallyAfkGreas	arjan: also check out an old revison of the subversion wiki: http://www.plainblack.com/support/community-wiki/community-wiki/developers-guid-to-svn?func=view;revision=1165814073	00:01
wgGuest17	I have a question about the template for sending messages	00:01
wgGuest17	What is this template and where is located	00:02
+perlDreamer	Sending messages, how?	00:02
+perlDreamer	from the dataform	00:03
wgGuest17	Sending the welcome message	00:03
@apeiron	s/MrReallyAfkGreas/MrNotQuiteSoAfkGreas/ # apparently	00:03
-!- MrReallyAfkGreas is now known as MrHairgrease		00:03
-!- apeiron is now known as apeiron[devils_a		00:04
@apeiron[devils_a	sigh	00:04
-!- apeiron[devils_a is now known as apeiron		00:04
wgGuest17	Where is the location of the welcome message template?	00:05
arjancwidlak	Thanx Martin	00:05
+perlDreamer	I'm not sure that it is templated.	00:06
+MrHairgrease	wgguest17: No template	00:06
+MrHairgrease	you can set the message here: Admin Console > Settings > Authentication tab	00:06
wgGuest17	Ok, and what is this template Send Private Message Template for?	00:07
+perlDreamer	it is for private emails between users	00:08
+perlDreamer	that way you can email somebody in a wG site without knowing their email address	00:08
wgGuest17	how could I personalize this message (welcome message)	00:09
+perlDreamer	Go to the Admin Console, to the Settings icon	00:09
+perlDreamer	the message can be changed in the authentication tab	00:09
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wgGuest17	I know this, but i want to change the apparience	00:10
+perlDreamer	What do you want to do?	00:10
wgGuest17	I want to put in that emmail an image logo and some another text	00:11
+perlDreamer	have you tried just typing in the HTML for that into the Settings and see if it works?	00:11
+perlDreamer	Your only other option is to try and change the WebGUI core code to make it a full HTML field.	00:12
wgGuest17	Let me trie	00:12
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GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: How to make a Google Sitemap of your WebGUI site - Edited on 2/26/2008 4:04 pm by elnino http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/how-to-make-a-google-sitemap-of-your-webgui-site	00:14
+MrHairgrease	perlDreamer: still there?	00:15
+perlDreamer	yup	00:15
+MrHairgrease	then why don't you answer in the private chat?	00:15
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5632 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: unable to remove calendar feeds in IE6	00:16
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5633 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (2 files in 2 dirs): changed iTransact help to refer directly to iTransact website instead of reseller	00:16
+perlDreamer	didn't get an answer from you	00:16
+MrHairgrease	you know, th egarbled crap msg	00:16
+perlDreamer	every time I type to you, it just says <AWAY>	00:16
+MrHairgrease	well I really did send it	00:16
+MrHairgrease	oh	00:16
+perlDreamer	(14:16:27) MrHairgrease <AUTO-REPLY> : Away	00:16
+MrHairgrease	I'm unaway now	00:17
+MrHairgrease	maybe that helps	00:17
+perlDreamer	nope	00:17
+perlDreamer	nothing yet	00:17
+MrHairgrease	stupid irc	00:17
+MrHairgrease	did you get the loud and clear stuff?	00:18
+perlDreamer	mp	00:18
+perlDreamer	no	00:18
+perlDreamer	it must be on my end	00:18
+MrHairgrease	screw this	00:19
+MrHairgrease	i'll try to msg you	00:19
+MrHairgrease	hang on	00:19
+perlDreamer	good idea	00:19
+MrHairgrease	lot's of pings on the way...	00:19
+perlDreamer	nada	00:20
+perlDreamer	let me log out, and log back in in a few minutes	00:20
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arjancwidlak	quit	00:23
arjancwidlak	exit	00:23
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+perlDreamer	okay, mhg. Lay it on me	00:23
+MrHairgrease	already did	00:23
+MrHairgrease	still nothing?	00:23
+perlDreamer	no	00:23
+MrHairgrease	well death and suffering to irc then	00:24
+MrHairgrease	you can tell me here why I supposedly talked garbled crap	00:24
+perlDreamer	well, you said exactly the same thing that I repeated later	00:24
+perlDreamer	with the welcome message	00:24
+MrHairgrease	so if you repeat someone they talk garbled crap?	00:24
+MrHairgrease	oh	00:25
+perlDreamer	Only if they understand the second person	00:25
+MrHairgrease	there is a template?	00:25
+perlDreamer	No, no template	00:25
+MrHairgrease	so why the garbled crap	00:25
@rizen	attention all: i've just checked in a basic exception handling system into the commerce branch, could you please take a look and tell me what you think	00:25
+perlDreamer	because he understood me	00:25
+MrHairgrease	not that I'm opposed to talking that of course	00:25
+perlDreamer	so obviously you're speaking garbled crap :)	00:25
@rizen	https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/browse/branch/WebGUI_Commerce/	00:25
+MrHairgrease	who isn't these days...	00:25
@rizen	garbled crap is my native tongue	00:26
wgGuest17	PearlDreamer.......It Works	00:26
+perlDreamer	MrHairgrease recently became fluent in it	00:26
@rizen	i often think that martin and i are long lost brothers	00:26
wgGuest17	Tks	00:26
+perlDreamer	you're welcome	00:26
+MrHairgrease	we have been for years garbled crap wise	00:27
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+MrHairgrease	rizen: is it basically some kind of configurable try-catch like mechanism?	00:29
@rizen	yes	00:29
+MrHairgrease	I don't really have formed an opion on it yet	00:30
@rizen	if you look at this: https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/view/branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Exception.pm	00:30
@rizen	it shows a synopsis	00:30
+MrHairgrease	mainly b/c it's 23.30 and it has been a long day	00:30
@rizen	hehe	00:30
+MrHairgrease	I read the files in the revison	00:30
* perlDreamer is going to investigate Test::Exception		00:31
+perlDreamer	to see if it will help	00:31
+MrHairgrease	but anyway, it's like it is used/implemented easy enoug	00:31
@preaction	i like it!	00:32
CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5634 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/ (Exception/Shop.pm Exception.pm Exception): base exception system	00:32
+MrHairgrease	and I guess it will not add a layer of bloated clutter, but a layer of useful clutter	00:32
+MrHairgrease	if you could call it clutter at all\	00:32
@rizen	is it ok that the namespaces are a little wierd?	00:32
@rizen	do you see how to add your own exception subclasses since i added one for the shop?	00:32
+MrHairgrease	yes	00:33
@rizen	B<NOTE>: Though the package name is WebGUI::Exception, the handler objects that are created are WebGUI::Error.	00:33
+MrHairgrease	why are they weird btw?	00:33
+MrHairgrease	oh that	00:33
+MrHairgrease	you can only throw an exception in case of an error right	00:33
+MrHairgrease	so how is that weird?	00:33
@rizen	no i mean that you do a	00:33
@rizen	use WebGUI::Exception;	00:34
@rizen	but then later in your code you do	00:34
@rizen	WebGUI::Error->throw();	00:34
@rizen	so you use one think	00:34
@rizen	thing	00:34
@rizen	but throw another	00:34
+perlDreamer	why would they be different?	00:34
@rizen	i couldn't figure out how to do it differently	00:34
@rizen	well usually you use WebGUI::Something;	00:34
@rizen	then then do	00:34
@rizen	WebGUI::Somethin->new	00:34
+MrHairgrease	yeah i understand	00:35
@rizen	it's the same namespace everywhere	00:35
+MrHairgrease	personally I wouldn't loose sleep over it	00:35
@rizen	but here because i have to create a package that creates packages...i can't reuse the namespace	00:35
@preaction	it's documented, if they can't read the fine manual then foo on them	00:35
@rizen	ok	00:35
@rizen	you realize that "they" in this case is all of you guys right?	00:35
@preaction	besides, Error will be more used, and it's shorter than Exception, which is good	00:35
@rizen	=)	00:35
+MrHairgrease	one thing though	00:36
+MrHairgrease	isn't it so that in other languages you throw exceptions instead of errors?	00:36
@rizen	true, but i inverted it here for the reason that preaction said	00:36
+MrHairgrease	you catch an erro so you throw an exception	00:37
@rizen	error is shorter	00:37
+MrHairgrease	oh	00:37
+MrHairgrease	ok	00:37
@preaction	i've seen other things use Project::X as their exception class, which is brief, but incomprehensible	00:37
@rizen	iphone 1.1.4 is out!!!!	00:37
Radix__	eeks!	00:38
+perlDreamer	free firmware upgrade?	00:38
@rizen	hopefully this means the SDK is out too	00:38
+MrHairgrease	holy overhyped gadgets batman	00:38
@rizen	yes	00:38
Radix__	sdk?	00:38
+perlDreamer	Software Development Kit	00:38
+perlDreamer	so that wG can run on the iphone	00:38
Radix__	duh	00:38
@preaction	wait. are you making WebGUI::Exception::Shop or something?	00:38
@rizen	i did	00:38
Radix__	I know what sdk means, I was meaning.. was it out? :)	00:38
@rizen	so you could see how to create subclass exceptions	00:39
+perlDreamer	Radix__: Did you offer to write some commerce code yesterday?	00:39
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@preaction	i think these things are going to work out nicely	00:39
Radix__	I offered to add Aussie support, if its not too hard and easy enough	00:39
Radix__	I have all of Australia Post's shipping prices	00:39
+perlDreamer	it should be very easy to write shipping plugins	00:39
Radix__	tax for australia is prettymuch a flat 10% GST applied to everything except foodstuffs and a few other things	00:40
+perlDreamer	have a look at https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/view/branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Shop/ShipDriver/FlatRate.pm	00:40
+perlDreamer	that's a shipping plugin	00:40
+MrHairgrease	radix_: clothing is 10% too?	00:40
Radix__	yup	00:41
+MrHairgrease	ok	00:41
+MrHairgrease	in that case what would be the tax on edible panties?	00:41
Radix__	10%	00:42
+MrHairgrease	but it is foodstuff too	00:42
Radix__	not all foodstuffs are gst free	00:42
Radix__	only a few actually are	00:43
@rizen	an unfinished shipping plugin	00:44
Radix__	yeah, that shipping plugin has no actual calculation	00:45
+perlDreamer	it's just missing the shipping cart iterator and summer	00:47
@rizen	but pd is right, this new system is meant to be super easy for plugging in new stuff	00:47
@rizen	just 2 methods	00:47
+perlDreamer	is the shipping for Aussie Post complicated?	00:47
@rizen	aussie post might be so simple they can just use the flat rate module =)	00:48
+perlDreamer	I mean, if it fit into the FlatRate model, you wouldn't even have to build another plugin, just customize that one.	00:49
+perlDreamer	now that was just scary	00:49
+perlDreamer	you must be picking up a carrier wave from preaction	00:49
Radix__	pretty simple I think yeah - flat rate inside australia based on weight - international is different tho	00:50
+perlDreamer	Test::Exception will help us. Less typing. I'll try it out after converting from croak to exceptions.	00:51
Radix__	We have all the info here at work for aussie post, australian air express, dhl, ems, etc	00:51
+perlDreamer	Radix__: The flat rate model is flatRate + percentage of item costs + per item charges + cost per weight.	00:51
Radix__	If I can write those up it'd make it hugely useful for aussies wanting to use it	00:51
+perlDreamer	maybe it would help if we could export configured shipper drivers?	00:52
+perlDreamer	kind of like taxes	00:52
@rizen	that's not a bad idea	00:53
+perlDreamer	export it as JSON, maybe?	00:54
+perlDreamer	it's too complex for CSV	00:54
@rizen	that would be simple enough	00:54
@apeiron	Scrolling up and I see the Exception / Error stuff. I have a question. Let's say that you do an operation. It throws an exception. You handle that exception. The world's happy. Then later you do another operation and check for exceptions.	00:55
@apeiron	What happens	00:55
@apeiron	?	00:55
@preaction	what do you mean? you either handle it or you send it up the stack	00:59
@apeiron	if (my $e = WebGUI::Error->caught("WebGUI::Error::ObjectNotFound")) { # say I previously handled an error of this time. There may / may not be a new error waiting for me. Can I be sure that the ObjectNotFound error is removed? What if I haven't checked for errors after the first operation? Are there two errors waiting for me?	01:01
@apeiron	s/time/type/	01:01
+perlDreamer	no, I think you have to do it one by one	01:01
+perlDreamer	no queueing	01:01
@preaction	if you catch an error, it's removed. if you don't catch it, it gets sent up the stack	01:02
+perlDreamer	rizen: which version of Test::Exception are we using? Does it need to go in testEnvironment.pl, too?	01:04
@apeiron	Hm. Okay. I still don't understand how propagation works.	01:04
@rizen	We're not using test::exception yet	01:04
@rizen	Exception::Class	01:04
+perlDreamer	uh, yeah, that.	01:04
@rizen	whatever the latest is	01:04
CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5635 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (4 files in 4 dirs):	01:04
CIA-21	WebGUI: Add the shippingDrivers entry to the config file.	01:04
CIA-21	WebGUI: Have the update script remove the old shipping plugin and add the new shipping driver entry to config files.	01:04
CIA-21	WebGUI: Tests for Ship.t. getDrivers and some "new" code for Shop::Ship.	01:04
CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5636 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Exception.pm: added WrongObjectType	01:04
@apeiron	I guess if you do an eval{} of an operation that throws, and then don't check for exceptions, it's just dropped on the floor, right?	01:05
+perlDreamer	yes	01:08
@apeiron	Okay, that makes sense.	01:10
@apeiron	Note to self, don't do that.	01:10
+perlDreamer	You could be a doctor ;)	01:10
@apeiron	My handwriting is plenty illegible enough, eesh.	01:10
+perlDreamer	I think exceptions are going to have some far reaching effects in WebGUI	01:14
+perlDreamer	Just think how they might interact with WebGUI::Pluggable	01:14
@Haarg	perlDreamer: we may want to change how merged changes are noted now that we are maintaining two branches	01:15
+perlDreamer	how do you want the, Haarg?	01:16
@Haarg	i think we should just note the release a change was added, not listing the new 7.4 releases at all	01:16
@Haarg	in trunk that is	01:17
+perlDreamer	do you mean noted in SVN, or noted in changelog?	01:17
@Haarg	in the changelog	01:17
@apeiron	perlDreamer, I'm thinking along the lines of making all those "return undef"s and the like actually do something meaningful. :)	01:17
@preaction	can't	01:18
@preaction	breaks API	01:18
+perlDreamer	just be real careful, apeiron. wG can break really quickly and we don't have total test coverage	01:18
@apeiron	preaction, In the future, anyway.	01:18
@preaction	oh, yes	01:18
@Haarg	i think that's high on everyone's list for where it can be done	01:18
+perlDreamer	Haarg, back to changelogging, how do we keep track the correlation between 7.4 releases and SVN revision numbers?	01:20
@preaction	aren't we using tags yet?	01:20
+perlDreamer	it's very quick in the changelog to say, oh, that bug was fixed in 7.4.22, so please upgrade to that version or newer?	01:20
@Haarg	we have tags for each release	01:20
@Haarg	i think we should keep doing the same as before in 7.4	01:21
@Haarg	but it gets wierd having the new 7.4 releases in the 7.5 changelog	01:21
@Haarg	and makes it hard to see which 7.5 release a fix was included in	01:21
+perlDreamer	that's true	01:21
+perlDreamer	but it makes merging changelogs a little harder, but not badly	01:21
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@Haarg	well, i'd have to do that work anyway for release notes	01:22
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@Haarg	this way i get to push some of it to you :)	01:23
+perlDreamer	no problem, man.	01:24
+perlDreamer	I'll also backport test fixes until the 7.4 tests run clean again	01:24
@Haarg	i'm going to revise the 7.5 changelog along those lines then when i get a chance	01:24
+perlDreamer	arjan was in here asking about fixing/merging, too, so it might be worth your time to put together a wiki page/dev posting so everyone knows	01:25
@Haarg	probably a good idea	01:26
+perlDreamer	although I'm probably the biggest offender in that area	01:26
CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5637 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/sbin/testEnvironment.pl: add testEnvironment check for Exception::Class	01:31
CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5638 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Exception.pm: added InvalidParam, renamed WrongObjectType to InvalidObject	01:31
CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5639 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Shop/CartItem.pm: converted to use exception handling	01:31
CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5640 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Shop/ (CartItem.pm Cart.pm): updated to use exceptions rather than croak	01:31
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Sunmaster_14	I'm having trouble starting spectre: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m787f7f06	01:37
+perlDreamer	did you search the wiki and the forums?	01:37
+perlDreamer	also, the bug database?	01:37
Sunmaster_14	I'm puzzled. I don't know what caused this problem to start happening. I've looked on the forums and found a similar report, but no answers.	01:37
+perlDreamer	have you recently updated the WRE or WebGUI?	01:38
Sunmaster_14	No.	01:38
Sunmaster_14	Well, actually yes	01:38
Sunmaster_14	WebGUI now that I think of it, I reran setup and teh wre automatically reinstalled webgui	01:38
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+perlDreamer	and did you run the corresponding testEnvironment script to make sure everything is up to date?	01:38
Sunmaster_14	No.	01:38
+perlDreamer	try that first	01:39
+perlDreamer	please	01:39
+perlDreamer	Sunmaster_14: we always need to know what version of wG you're using, if you're using the WRE or not (and its version if you are).	01:40
Sunmaster_14	Aha! I think the testEnvironment script found the problem. I'd been getting a JSON error, and it says my JSON version is out of date for the current WebGUI version	01:40
+perlDreamer	you should need to update JSON, and maybe JSON::Config as well	01:41
Sunmaster_14	yup, just did so	01:41
+perlDreamer	did that help with spectre?	01:43
Sunmaster_14	not yet... now I can't run the wre	01:43
Sunmaster_14	I'm going to check what version it is	01:43
+perlDreamer	I would strongly recommend updating to 0.8.3	01:43
Sunmaster_14	how do I check what version I have?	01:44
+perlDreamer	that one I don't know	01:44
Sunmaster_14	ah, I have .8.1	01:45
Sunmaster_14	according to the docs directory	01:45
Sunmaster_14	can't run the wreupgrade script though	01:45
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5641 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): added script to remove unneeded .wgaccess files instead of running during upgrade	01:47
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5642 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: unable to remove calendar feeds in IE6	01:47
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5643 /WebGUI/www/extras/ (hoverhelp.js hoverhelp.css): remove hack in hoverhelp that isn't needed with new YUI	01:47
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5644 /WebGUI/docs/gotcha.txt: Simpler gotcha listing re YUI and Ext	01:47
Sunmaster_14	Yeah, I'm getting this: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m6813e03c when I try to run wreupgrade.pl	01:49
Sunmaster_14	I could just delete my whole wre and install .8.3	01:49
Sunmaster_14	it seems like updating JSON broke .8.1	01:50
+perlDreamer	how about downgrading JSON, and then running the upgrade script?	01:50
Sunmaster_14	not a bad idea	01:50
Sunmaster_14	I'm not sure where to install JSON to though.	01:50
+perlDreamer	it's somewhere in the WRE directory	01:51
+perlDreamer	find /data/wre -name 'JSON.pm'	01:51
Sunmaster_14	So is it just that file that needs to be changed?	01:51
+perlDreamer	no, JSON::Config needs to be downgraded as well	01:51
+perlDreamer	$rizen->evoke($session);	01:57
@rizen	evoke?	01:57
@rizen	are you kicking me from irc?	01:57
@rizen	oh, that would be revoke	01:57
+perlDreamer	it's nicer than provoke	01:57
+perlDreamer	and I'm not using you, so I can't invoke	01:57
+perlDreamer	I need another exception, for bad user data in a file	01:58
+perlDreamer	is that a new class Exception::UserDataFile, or just something in Exception?	01:58
+perlDreamer	it would contain the name of the file, and the line number where the data was found	01:59
@rizen	that seems pretty generic so i'd go with putting it right in exception	02:00
@rizen	and i might call it CorruptFile or InvalidFile	02:00
@rizen	something like that	02:00
+perlDreamer	http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:evoke&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title	02:00
@rizen	but it's up to you since it's your exception!	02:00
+perlDreamer	evoke ~~ raise : summon into action or bring into existenace, often as if by magic	02:00
@rizen	you are magical	02:01
+perlDreamer	well, I want to design it well	02:01
@rizen	since Error already has file and line	02:01
@rizen	make sure you make yours explicit	02:01
@rizen	like brokenFile and brokenLine	02:02
+perlDreamer	filename and linenumber	02:02
+perlDreamer	yours are better	02:02
@rizen	i'm going to start writing the donation asset so that we have a product we can test with	02:03
+perlDreamer	cool	02:03
+perlDreamer	then I'll have to go back and write the tests for Tax	02:03
@rizen	yeah, once i have this done, there will be lots of testing we can do	02:04
@rizen	the only crappy part about donation is that it's not shippable	02:05
@rizen	but the Product asset is going to be a big deal to write/migrate so i don't want to wait that long	02:05
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+perlDreamer	don't worry about that	02:05
@rizen	i suppose we can mark the donation asset as shippable for the time being	02:05
+perlDreamer	I'll be busy for a while with calculation tests	02:06
+perlDreamer	wait	02:06
+perlDreamer	are Donations taxable?	02:06
@rizen	depends on where you are probably	02:06
@rizen	but again, we can make them taxable for the purposes of this test	02:06
+perlDreamer	yeah	02:07
+perlDreamer	Could we just crowbar a bare Sku to do the testing?	02:08
+perlDreamer	I've done some similar kinds of things with the raw Asset class.	02:09
@rizen	true, but the reason i want to do donation is that it's easy to do, and it will have a variable price for us to test with	02:09
@rizen	i guess it doesn't matter thought	02:10
@rizen	my Cart tests all use Sku	02:10
+perlDreamer	not to dis' anyone, but now that Sku is built, anyone can build extensions on top of it	02:10
+perlDreamer	me, Arjan, Radix, Joeri	02:11
+perlDreamer	you need to stay high level	02:11
@rizen	i need to stay high level?	02:12
+perlDreamer	yeah	02:13
+perlDreamer	It's like terraforming	02:13
+perlDreamer	Worry about the atmosphere, the water ecology	02:13
@rizen	i think i need to keep building..cuz if i don't then you'll have to write everything yourself	02:13
+perlDreamer	and let someone else plant shrubs	02:13
@rizen	i haven't seen anybody else planting shrubs	02:13
@rizen	except you	02:13
+perlDreamer	true	02:13
@rizen	besides...i like getting my hands dirty	02:13
@rizen	=)	02:13
+perlDreamer	true	02:13
@rizen	and	02:14
@rizen	the faster that we get all the stuff that has to get done done	02:14
@rizen	the cooler we can make it	02:14
+perlDreamer	indeed	02:14
@rizen	the EMS is going to be a big bear to tackle	02:14
+perlDreamer	yeah, and it's not tested	02:14
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+perlDreamer	it ought to be last	02:14
@rizen	subscriptions and products won't be easy, but they won't be anything in comparison	02:15
+perlDreamer	I know it's a big app, but how many people use the EMS vs commerce?	02:15
@rizen	actually i think i'm going to work on EMS after i get done with donation, and you can work with either product or subscription	02:15
@rizen	i guess we still have all the UI stuff to do too	02:15
@rizen	so i shouldn't get too far ahead of myself	02:15
+perlDreamer	any news from joeri about payment?	02:17
+perlDreamer	Maybe we have almost all the API done	02:17
@rizen	nothing	02:17
@rizen	i guess i should email him	02:17
+perlDreamer	I have Tax converted to use wG::Exception	02:18
+perlDreamer	I'd like to tinker a little with Test::Exception next	02:18
@rizen	sweet	02:19
@rizen	on tinkering	02:19
+perlDreamer	after I have Tax completed, I'll sweep back through ShipDriver* and then end back up in Ship	02:20
@rizen	i'm thinking all sku's should have a description field just like wobjects, what say you?	02:20
+perlDreamer	Yeah	02:20
+perlDreamer	This is a blah blah blah	02:20
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@Haarg	perlDreamer: can you think of any reason not to port WebGUI::Test from trunk to 7.4?	02:36
@Haarg	the adspace operation test is failing because it was written using ->getPage, which doesn't exist in 7.4's version	02:36
@preaction	it should be fine	02:39
@Haarg	yeah, it looks fine to me	02:39
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+perlDreamer	rock on	02:44
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@rizen	someone should update either GooeyOfSteel or perlbot to automatically check the rss feeds from the black blog and the staff blog for new titles	02:45
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5645 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm: fix leaking undef $/ in storage	02:49
CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5646 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/ (Shop/Tax.pm Exception.pm): convert Shop::Tax to use exceptions	02:49
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@rizen	el capeetan	02:59
@rizen	tavisto tells me he has been harassing you	02:59
@rizen	hope he's not getting too annoying	03:00
@preaction	he's bad. his pretty face staring at me from his IM window... drives me insane. keeps me up some nights	03:10
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5647 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm: porting WebGUI::Test from trunk	03:18
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5648 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.4.26 release	03:18
CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5649 /releases/WebGUI_7.4.26-stable: Release 7.4.26-stable	03:18
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5650 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (4 files in 4 dirs): preparing for 7.4.27	03:18
diakopter	preaction: I downgraded the runCronJob as you suggested. same error though. Couldn't execute operation : WebGUI::Operation::Cron::www_runCronJob. Root cause: malformed JSON string, neither array, object, number, string or atom, at character offset 0 ["(end of string)"] at /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/JSON.pm line 140.	03:48
@preaction	upgrade to the latest release? that should be fixed now	03:48
diakopter	will do	03:48
@preaction	this is on 7.4, no?	03:49
diakopter	7.4, though I'm going to upgrade to trunk asap	03:49
@preaction	if you go to 7.4.22 or higher, you can't get to 7.5 until 7.5 goes stable	03:50
diakopter	oh; ok.	03:50
diakopter	thanks for the heads up	03:50
* diakopter starts over with the wre 0.8.3, for good measure.		03:50
diakopter	preaction: yes, those errors have been fixed.	04:07
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Sunmaster_14	I'm having an interesting problem: I created a test site in the wre console, then removed that site. Now that the site is removed, I'm getting errors when I try to start modperl, that say that it can't connect to the database because access is denied for the user that was created for the test site but no longer exists.	04:14
Sunmaster_14	(I'm in v 0.8.3)	04:14
@preaction	did you name the site "test"?	04:15
Sunmaster_14	no, I named it testsite	04:15
@preaction	can you add another site and start modperl?	04:15
Sunmaster_14	dunno, I can try that... what about moving and restoring the my.cnf file? would that help, d'you think?	04:17
@preaction	why? my.cnf has nothing to do with the users in the mysql database	04:19
Sunmaster_14	huh, apparently there was a stored user "". When I created the new site, it said "Would you like to change the stored password for user ?"	04:19
@preaction	that isn't right. it's supposed to create a random user name	04:20
Sunmaster_14	yeah.	04:20
Sunmaster_14	it did last time	04:20
Sunmaster_14	modperl is still not starting	04:20
Sunmaster_14	still access denied for the same old user	04:21
@preaction	does the config file for that old site still exist?	04:22
@preaction	are you running the wreconsole as root?	04:22
diakopter	preaction: well, spectre suicided again. I don't see any errors in the logs.	04:23
@preaction	perl spectre.pl --test, perl spectre.pl --run --debug, same as usual	04:24
Sunmaster_14	am running as root...� dnno if this is useful info, but at some point I got the following error in the wreconsole: /data/wre/prereqs/share/mysql/mysql.server: line 159: kill: (15484) - No such process	04:24
Sunmaster_14	and the config file for the old one is gone	04:24
@preaction	Sunmaster_14, then modperl shouldn't be trying to load the old site's user	04:26
Sunmaster_14	preaction: Right. But the old site's user's name shouldn't be blank either.	04:26
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Sunmaster_14	http://webgui.pastebin.com/m6f095f7 suggestions, anyone?	04:46
@preaction	restart modperl? find which site is trying to connect using that user?	04:52
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Sunmaster_14	well, I can't run modperl	04:54
Sunmaster_14	that's the old user I was talking about	04:54
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CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5651 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (15 files in 11 dirs): created donation asset	05:04
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Sunmaster_14	greetings, cap10morgan	06:13
Sunmaster_14	(this is dfrishberg)	06:13
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: sqlreport - Created on 2/26/2008 10:08 pm by elnino http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/sqlreport	06:19
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GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: sqlreport - Edited on 2/26/2008 10:14 pm by elnino http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/sqlreport	06:25
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GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: sqlreport - Edited on 2/26/2008 10:53 pm by elnino http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/sqlreport	07:03
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: sqlreport - Edited on 2/26/2008 11:05 pm by elnino http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/sqlreport	07:16
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: sqlreport - Edited on 2/26/2008 11:16 pm by elnino http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/sqlreport	07:27
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: sqlreport - Edited on 2/26/2008 11:53 pm by elnino http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/sqlreport	08:03
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: sqlreport - Edited on 2/26/2008 11:56 pm by elnino http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/sqlreport	08:06
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: sqlreport - Edited on 2/27/2008 12:16 am by elnino http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/sqlreport	08:26
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@rizen	pd!	17:12
@rizen	are you always up this early?	17:12
@rizen	rizen to perlDreamer, come in perlDreamer	17:13
@rizen	must just be a ghost	17:14
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rjacobsen	good morning everyone, I have a quick question if anyone has time please	17:37
BartJol	well, should be possible	17:38
BartJol	just a minute, have to make a call	17:38
rjacobsen	ok	17:38
BartJol	just describe your problem	17:38
BartJol	in the meantime	17:39
rjacobsen	Our current version of webgui that we are using is 7.3.22, and we are hosting 45+ websites in webgui. Due to the fact we do not want anything to break we have refrained from updating webgui. All that aside, I am simply wanting the "New Content" panel in the "Admin Console" to ONLY show up for Admins and no one else. Is there an easy way to do this?	17:40
BartJol	well, I should have to check on that	17:41
rjacobsen	It would be awesome if we could find where to check to see if an "admin" is logged in and to only enable the "New Content" panel if only an "admin" was logged in	17:42
BartJol	Those groups are embedded in the system, so probably some default have to be altered	17:42
@rizen	see WebGUI.conf.original a setting calle assetAddPrivilege	17:44
BartJol	mmm, but then you have to do that for each type of asset	17:47
@rizen	http://www.bbspot.com/News/2001/03/perl_test.html	17:47
BartJol	ah, that's a referral especially for me?	17:49
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+perlDreamer	heh	17:51
+perlDreamer	forgot to logout last night	17:51
@rizen	yes bart	17:53
@rizen	that's for you	17:53
@rizen	pd, i've decided that the commerce ui stuff should come in as a new content handler rather than ops	17:54
@rizen	do you have any objections?	17:54
+perlDreamer	no objections from the peanut gallery	17:54
+perlDreamer	Test::Exceptions makes _simple_ exception testing really easy	17:55
+perlDreamer	however, more in depth tests still have to be done manually	17:55
+perlDreamer	maybe I should write Test::Exception::Deep	17:55
+perlDreamer	ya see, it will check the class, OR it will check the stringification	17:56
+perlDreamer	but it won't check parameters or the error field	17:56
+perlDreamer	I wonder how he tested that in Exception::Class	17:57
BartJol	rizen, you make me sad, and all those lousy customers too	17:57
@rizen	lousy?	17:58
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@rizen	are you saying our customers have lice?	17:58
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@rizen	pd: i'm pretty excited about this whole exception handling thing..it's something i've wanted to do for a long time	17:59
BartJol	yes 6 calls in 15 minutes	18:00
+perlDreamer	it's good stuff	18:00
@rizen	i think i'm going to apply it to the content and url handlers since i already did croak there	18:00
+perlDreamer	BartJol: Did you tell them all to upgrade JSON ?	18:00
@rizen	oh, you're saying your customers have lice	18:00
@rizen	that's ok then	18:00
+perlDreamer	rizen: cool	18:00
BartJol	well, they have a windows problem: they have it	18:01
BartJol	almost the same as lice	18:01
BartJol	we do some other stuff too	18:01
+perlDreamer	cool. 7.4 is passing all tests (except the label test)	18:07
@preaction	you mean the test box works? it did what it was told?	18:09
@preaction	i really need to improve the robustness of that code before I should've released it to the wild... the slightest thing wrong and it starts screwing up the disk	18:10
BartJol	but do you mean you can also do it by stating "WebGUI::Asset" : 3 ?	18:10
+perlDreamer	whoa	18:21
+perlDreamer	check this out	18:21
+perlDreamer	http://blog.oregonlive.com/breakingnews/2008/02/hermiston_high_dunk_generates.html	18:21
+perlDreamer	cross court pass and dunk	18:21
+perlDreamer	by high schoolers!	18:21
ckotil	nice play	18:23
@rizen	someone was eating their wheaties	18:24
+perlDreamer	I think hermiston has 1000 people in it	18:24
+perlDreamer	It's the last town on Hwy 80 before you go into Washington	18:24
+perlDreamer	hm, try about 14.5 kPeople	18:25
+perlDreamer	it's bigger than I thought	18:25
+perlDreamer	anyway, time to head into work	18:25
+perlDreamer	be back in 30	18:25
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perlmonkey2	The survey js should be placed in a survey folder in extras, right?	18:29
perlmonkey2	ahah, wobject/survey	18:29
@rizen	yup	18:29
CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5652 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (2 files in 2 dirs): added commerce ui glue	18:44
BartJol	well, if you are only gonna be mean to me, Ican just as well go home :)	18:44
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Sunmaster_14	I'm having spectre issues (wre .8.3, latest webgui). spectre.pl --test gives me this: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m600d68e3	19:25
Sunmaster_14	SPECTRE runs but I can't commit changes. I've looked through the fora.	19:25
@preaction	you don't have that perl module or you ran spectre without using the WRE's environment	19:27
+perlDreamer	since you're using the WRE, you are probably having setEnvironment problems	19:29
Sunmaster_14	Whoops, preaction: I forgot to set the environment, you're right: now it says I need to adjust my spectrePort or spectreIP. The IP is right. How do I know what the port needs to be?	19:29
Sunmaster_14	It's currently 32133.	19:30
@preaction	did you change the port in spectre.conf or webgui.conf?	19:30
Sunmaster_14	No.	19:31
@preaction	then you don't need to change the port	19:32
+perlDreamer	preaction: aside from rampant disk destruction, the test server rocks!	19:32
Sunmaster_14	The port's the same in spectre.conf, and I don't know where to find WebGUI.conf (it's not in /data/WebGUI/etc, just WebGUI.conf.original is there)	19:32
@preaction	Sunmaster_14, then you don't have any webgui sites configured, which might explain why spectre can't connect to any of them	19:33
Sunmaster_14	preaction: Interesting. How do I configure a WebGUI site other than creating it in the WRE Console?	19:33
@preaction	wreconsole not working to create sites?	19:34
@preaction	addsite.pl --help <- a command-line way that i find easier to use for my purposes	19:34
Sunmaster_14	It is, in that I can create and edit them, but I can't commit changes.	19:34
Sunmaster_14	ok	19:34
@preaction	so you created a site with the wreconsole.pl, and no <sitename>.conf file shows up in /data/WebGUI/etc	19:34
Sunmaster_14	No, there's a sitename.conf file	19:35
Sunmaster_14	but no WebGUI.conf	19:35
+perlDreamer	sitename.conf _is_ a WebGUI.conf file	19:35
@preaction	... okay. from now on, when anyone ever asks about your WebGUI conf file, they mean the <sitename>.conf file for your site	19:35
Sunmaster_14	ah	19:36
Sunmaster_14	sorry	19:36
+perlDreamer	perlbot: WebGUI.conf is a nickname for <yourSiteName>.conf	19:36
perlbot	WebGUI.conf is a nickname for <yourSiteName isn't something I know about, perlDreamer	19:36
Sunmaster_14	Understood.	19:36
Sunmaster_14	Well, both of those show port 32133, as does spectre.conf	19:36
+perlDreamer	perlbot: WebGUI.conf is a nickname for _yourSiteName_.conf	19:36
perlbot	added WebGUI.conf to the database	19:36
Sunmaster_14	so the port is not the issue... anything else you know of that could be causing that message?	19:37
@preaction	spectre not binding to the right IP, the host not knowing that the first siteName in your webgui conf is actually on the system it's currently on	19:37
Sunmaster_14	ok, so I ran with --debug set, and it's definitely binding...	19:40
Sunmaster_14	for each workflow instance it tries to handle, it says ERROR: <instance name> had a communications error.	19:40
Sunmaster_14	500 Internal Server Error	19:40
@preaction	it's not that it isn't binding, it's that it is binding to the wrong address	19:41
Sunmaster_14	ok, it binds to localhost:32133, which is where it's supposed to	19:41
@preaction	or that WebGUI doesn't allow that address to send workflow runner requests	19:41
@preaction	localhost is 127.0.0.1 in your /etc/hosts?	19:41
Sunmaster_14	well, what it says in the script output is 127.0.0.1:32133	19:42
Sunmaster_14	It's actually testsite that's set to 127.0.0.1	19:42
Sunmaster_14	which is the name of my site	19:42
@preaction	and 127.0.0.1/32 is one of your spectreSubnets in your webgui conf?	19:42
@preaction	127.0.0.1 is your spectreIp in your webgui conf?	19:42
Sunmaster_14	yes to both	19:42
@preaction	the webgui.log says that it sees a workflow runner request from 127.0.0.1, which it is deying?	19:42
@preaction	denying?	19:43
Sunmaster_14	not denying	19:43
Sunmaster_14	it says "adding schedule such-and-such from testsite to queue at priority 10 (sometimes 20"	19:43
Sunmaster_14	posting workflow instance to http://testsite:80	19:44
@preaction	that's spectre recieving a responce from webgui	19:44
@preaction	that's spectre sending a request to webgui	19:44
Sunmaster_14	oh	19:44
Sunmaster_14	Then I don't know how to check whether it's receiving a request from webgui	19:46
@preaction	the webgui.log file would have it	19:46
Sunmaster_14	good clal	19:46
Sunmaster_14	call*	19:46
Sunmaster_14	yeah, it says it couldn't connect to 127.0.0.1:32133	19:48
@preaction	that was when spectre wasn't running	19:48
Sunmaster_14	ok	19:48
+perlDreamer	might want to try a commit now and see if it works	19:48
Sunmaster_14	Didn't work.... it says http://webgui.pastebin.com/m53da788a	19:50
Sunmaster_14	then it gives a little html ditty that says 500 internal server error	19:51
@preaction	and perl spectre.pl --test says everything passes?	19:51
@preaction	testsite is defined in your /etc/hosts?	19:52
Sunmaster_14	yes to both	19:52
@preaction	what does doing "curl testsite?op=spectreGetSiteData" on the system do?	19:52
Sunmaster_14	gives a big hash array, want me to paste it?	19:53
Sunmaster_14	I'm not sure what the salient points are, but sitename is "testsite"	19:53
Sunmaster_14	priority is 2	19:53
@preaction	no, if it gives you a JSON string then it's working	19:54
Sunmaster_14	ah, that's json	19:54
Sunmaster_14	ok	19:54
@preaction	is there something with an instanceId?	19:54
Sunmaster_14	yes	19:54
Sunmaster_14	It is identical to the one in the paste	19:54
@preaction	run this: curl testsite?op=runWorkflow;instanceId=OpTdoaWc4XdyH08w2by0PQ	19:55
Sunmaster_14	btw, preaction: I appreciate the help. I'm kind of strapped for time today otherwise I'd have been more thorough searching the forums	19:55
Sunmaster_14	it says "error"	19:55
@preaction	look in the webgui.log, find out what the error is	19:56
Sunmaster_14	no instance id passed to workflow runner	19:56
Sunmaster_14	huh.	19:56
@preaction	because ; is a special character in sh. try encasing the URL in single-quotes	19:57
@preaction	'testsite?op=blah;instanceId=blah'	19:57
Sunmaster_14	complete	19:57
@preaction	it's working fine then	19:58
@preaction	oh, but for one more thing: what is your webguiPort in spectre.conf?	19:58
@preaction	it should be the port you set up for modperl, 8081 by default	19:58
Sunmaster_14	hmm, it says 80	19:59
Sunmaster_14	I thought modperl was 80 and modproxy was 8081 by default	19:59
@preaction	no. it's the other way around	19:59
@preaction	modproxy is the front-line. modperl is behind it so that modproxy can do some things to keep unnecessary load off of modperl	20:00
Sunmaster_14	ok, I mean it's set to whatever it got set to when I installed it	20:00
@preaction	so set the webguiPort in spectre.conf to 8081 and then restart spectre	20:01
Sunmaster_14	hmm, just did, commit still fails :(	20:01
@preaction	so you click Save, then you click Commit My Changes, then you click Save in the comment screen, and you wait for spectre to process it and it never does	20:02
@preaction	without being on the box, i can't diagnose this further	20:02
Sunmaster_14	ok	20:02
Sunmaster_14	well, thanks again for all your help	20:03
@preaction	the only thing i can think of is that spectre isn't actually running at all. you can do commits manually, as you saw with that ?op=runWorkflow thing. that's all spectre does is request that exact URL	20:04
@preaction	is "testsite" the first sitename in your webgui conf?	20:04
@preaction	what does wreservice.pl --ping spectre <- say?	20:04
Sunmaster_14	it says "OK"	20:05
Sunmaster_14	testsite is the first and only name in my webgui conf	20:06
@preaction	dunno then	20:06
Sunmaster_14	One other thing: when I first created the site (after a fresh install of everything, i.e. build.sh --all), it said "Would you like to change the stored password for ?"	20:06
Sunmaster_14	I thought that was weird.	20:07
Sunmaster_14	However, the only users shown in mysql are root, backup, test, and the autogenerated user for testsite.	20:07
Sunmaster_14	Is there any way of making an http proxy follow links inside the proxy, i.e. you click a link, and it presents the linked page within the proxy asset?	20:29
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Sunmaster_14	nm, think I just foud it	20:39
Sunmaster_14	found*	20:39
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@rizen	perlDreamer, whatcha working on?	20:49
+perlDreamer	VNC access to a win2K box and layouts	20:49
@rizen	ic	20:50
@rizen	sounds terribly exciting	20:50
+perlDreamer	what's up?	20:52
* diakopter does not make chip layouts for a living		20:52
+perlDreamer	w.r.t wG, I'm trying not to be horribly upset at Test::Exception not being cooler	20:53
@rizen	you could always make it a project to make it cooler and contribute the coolness back to it's author	20:53
+perlDreamer	but then I wouldn't be working on the commerce system	20:53
@rizen	well you'd be working on making all of webgui better because testing would be better	20:54
@rizen	but beyond that, you don't have to do the changes now	20:54
@rizen	you can wait until you're sick of commerce	20:54
+perlDreamer	okay	20:54
@rizen	the reason i ask what you're up to is that i'm working on building out the cart UI and so it's time to do integration with shipping and tax and stuff...thought you might want to work together	20:58
@rizen	but since you're busy, we can do it another time, or i can work on it by myself when that point comes	20:58
+perlDreamer	I still need to sweep back through ShipDriver* and convert to exceptions	21:00
+perlDreamer	so don't wait for me if you have time	21:00
+perlDreamer	although it would be cool to learn some UI design	21:00
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+perlDreamer	diakopter: scratch the idea of taking Cody to the Australian outback - http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/02/27/australia.snake.ap/index.html?iref=mpstoryview	21:37
diakopter	perlDreamer: maybe I'll purchase a baby python as a toy for him. Hopefully he'll kill it before it gets too big.	21:43
+perlDreamer	if not, you can train the python to get you a drink from the fridge	21:44
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+perlDreamer	$self->away("gym")	21:48
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rjacobsen	is there a way to send emails with webgui? like i want to place a php file in the root of webgui and be able to send emails using a flash script..... i just need to know if webgui has email protocol built in and where would i place the php file	22:38
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Sunmaster_14	I have an HTTP Proxy with url rewriting turned on so that when you click a link it goes to the new location within the asset. How do I set it so that some of the links, but not all, actually leave the webgui site?	23:35
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ckotil	i think there is an option in the http proxy asset to proxy external content.	23:46
ckotil	turn that off and links should let you leave the site.	23:46
ckotil	its been a while since ive used that asset. caused me some headaches..	23:46
@preaction	i could swear we added regex to define which links are or are not rewritten	23:54
@preaction	we did. in the display tab	23:55
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+perlDreamer	I need a double check on something	00:26
+perlDreamer	I think I'm going overboard on this exception testing	00:26
+perlDreamer	Do y'all think it's necessary just to check the type of exception thrown, or	00:26
+perlDreamer	should exception parameters (message and fields) also be checked?	00:27
@preaction	message and fields. if a change doesn't break a test we're not testing right ;-)	00:28
+perlDreamer	good point	00:29
+perlDreamer	I need to write a testing module	00:30
+perlDreamer	crap	00:30
+perlDreamer	more delay	00:30
@rizen	pd you're crazy	00:30
+perlDreamer	it takes from 2-5 tests to test each exception	00:31
+perlDreamer	doing the same thing every time	00:31
+perlDreamer	check the class	00:31
+perlDreamer	check the message	00:31
+perlDreamer	then check fields	00:31
+perlDreamer	It's begging for Test::Deep style set of tests that rolls it all up into 1 test	00:32
+perlDreamer	give some test method an exception, and tell it what to look for	00:33
+perlDreamer	yeah, crazy	00:40
@preaction	crazy like a FOX	00:41
+perlDreamer	crazy like a lazy perl programmer	00:41
CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5653 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (5 files in 5 dirs): started adding cart UI	01:14
+perlDreamer	preaction: how many teddywedgers does it cost to have the smoke test server run the tests as user webgui instead of root?	01:28
@preaction	uhm... i believe last time i tried that i blew myself up	01:29
+perlDreamer	that's strange	01:29
+perlDreamer	did it hurt?	01:29
@preaction	but, if i just su webgui; /data/testwebgui.pl --options; exit; it might work	01:29
@preaction	i'll look into it	01:29
+perlDreamer	cool	01:30
+perlDreamer	that's one I owe both you and Haarg	01:30
+perlDreamer	don't forget	01:30
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+perlDreamer	the BSDs must have a self destruct mechanism	01:34
+perlDreamer	hey, you're not supposed to be this user	01:34
+perlDreamer	pull back and nuke the disk from orbit	01:34
CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5654 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (3 files in 3 dirs): a little closer	01:50
+perlDreamer	Shop::Tax is converted over to exceptions, and they're all tested.	01:51
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CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5655 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Tax.pm t/Shop/Tax.t):	02:17
CIA-21	WebGUI: Finish testing all of shop tax's exceptions.	02:17
CIA-21	WebGUI: Convert a few exceptions to better types in import.	02:17
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CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5656 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/ShipDriver.pm t/Shop/ShipDriver.t): begin conversion of ShipDriver to use exceptions, in code and in test	02:50
CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5657 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Shop/ (CartItem.pm Cart.pm): some fixes	03:15
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CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5658 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (6 files in 5 dirs): base cart UI is working	04:43
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CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5659 /wrebuild/wre/ (2 files in 2 dirs): ImageMagick fixes for windows	06:39
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CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5660 /wrebuild/wre/sbin/webguiupdate.pl: fix path in webguiupdate.pl	07:17
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CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5661 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/ShipDriver.pm t/Shop/ShipDriver.t): convert over to use exceptions. A few tests still need to be written, they are written as todo tests	08:20
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CIA-21	WebGUI: martin * r5662 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/pay.pod: fixed small pod typo in pay.pod designdocs	14:47
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+MrHairgrease	howdy rizen	16:27
+MrHairgrease	i'm working on the payment driver stuff	16:27
+MrHairgrease	and of course i have a question	16:27
@rizen	howdy	16:27
@rizen	you are? i though joeri was personally going to do it	16:28
@rizen	ok, shoot	16:28
+MrHairgrease	the WG::S::PayDriver->create method has four db fields: pgId, label, class and options	16:28
+MrHairgrease	but the params in the spec are create( session, options )	16:29
+MrHairgrease	there's no label in the params	16:29
+MrHairgrease	should I get the label from the option hashref	16:29
+MrHairgrease	or should it be passed as an extra param	16:29
+MrHairgrease	also	16:29
+MrHairgrease	if i should fetch it from the options hashref, should i delete it from that hash before serializing the hash to be stored in the db?	16:30
+MrHairgrease	joeri and i are both gonna work on it	16:30
+MrHairgrease	i'm joeri's minion remember =)	16:30
@rizen	oh, label should be passed in	16:32
+MrHairgrease	ok	16:32
+MrHairgrease	thought so, but just checking	16:32
+MrHairgrease	tyhanks	16:32
@rizen	this spec is certainly not perfect. and if you see room for improvement absolutely bring it up	16:32
@rizen	i've changed things pretty massively in both the cart and the sku since i originally put out the spec	16:33
@rizen	and i've guided colin through making some big changes in tax and shipping as well	16:33
+MrHairgrease	ok	16:33
+MrHairgrease	I pretty much took colins ship test as a base and added some todo's for extra tests	16:34
@rizen	the spec is really just a bunch of random thoughts that i wrote down as i was going over all the things that the commerce system needed to do	16:34
@rizen	excellent	16:34
+MrHairgrease	if other stuff pops up you'll be the first to know it	16:34
+MrHairgrease	oh	16:34
+MrHairgrease	one already does	16:34
+MrHairgrease	shouldn't payment drivers also have a geteditform method	16:35
+MrHairgrease	like ship drivers	16:35
+MrHairgrease	and another: is paymentGatewayId generated by WebGUI or do we get it from the psp?	16:36
@rizen	paymentGatewayId is the local webgui id	16:37
@rizen	if the psp has a separate id then that will be stored in the options	16:37
+MrHairgrease	ok	16:37
@rizen	and yes, it should have a gedEditForm method that should be autogenerated just like ship drivers	16:37
+MrHairgrease	ok	16:38
@rizen	btw, i hope you're not too mad at me about replacing the commerce system you wrote	16:38
@rizen	i paid you to write and design it in a hurry, not to be a be all end all system	16:39
@rizen	so i figured you were ok	16:39
+MrHairgrease	actually I have an email of you saying that the product manager is FRICKING AWESOME. and you like it the best in all of webgui	16:39
+MrHairgrease	so that's enough already	16:39
@rizen	i still think that	16:39
@rizen	the variations thing is super cool	16:39
@rizen	i'm still not 100% sure how to fit that into the product asset...but i'll make it work	16:40
@rizen	cuz variations rock	16:40
+MrHairgrease	so does Elvis	16:40
+MrHairgrease	It's cool to do some core dev stuff again	16:40
@rizen	elvis used to rock...now he just rots in the ground	16:40
+MrHairgrease	I've been slammed with customer work the last year or so	16:41
+MrHairgrease	and, so that you know, elvis still rock on mars	16:41
@rizen	i hate customer work, which is why i'm so glad to have apeiron, haarg, preaction, and khenn to do it for me	16:41
@rizen	=)	16:41
+MrHairgrease	i've read somewhere that he's been abducted by aliens	16:41
+MrHairgrease	heh	16:42
+MrHairgrease	the last project was cool to do	16:42
+MrHairgrease	but since I have only about one day a week available, it consumed all of my webgui time	16:42
@rizen	btw are you doing anything with the video plugin to the gallery?	16:43
+MrHairgrease	haven't started on that yet	16:43
@rizen	i know you're busy, and that's a volunteer gig, i just thought i'd ask	16:43
@rizen	ok	16:43
+MrHairgrease	you ask/spam/harass me about stuff like that all the time =)	16:44
+MrHairgrease	it just has very little use =)	16:44
+MrHairgrease	the problem starts with the fact that there's only 24 hours in a day...	16:44
+MrHairgrease	but anyway, the code freeze is May 31st right?	16:45
@rizen	i know. i've been trying to figure out how to make it 72 hours	16:45
@rizen	but no luck	16:45
@rizen	yes may 31	16:45
@rizen	if it doesn't get done then it doesn't get done	16:45
@rizen	no worries	16:45
+MrHairgrease	I think I'll pull it off	16:45
+MrHairgrease	we'll see	16:46
@rizen	however, if it does get done, then i'll publish all the vids from previous year's wucs to it so everyone can laugh at us	16:46
+MrHairgrease	i know	16:46
+MrHairgrease	that was one of the reasons to do it	16:46
+MrHairgrease	you are not gonna sell those vids btw?	16:47
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@rizen	well wuc speakers get access to the vid library for free	16:50
@rizen	and so do plain black hosters and support clients	16:50
@rizen	not planning on selling them directly, but rather just setting up restricted access to them	16:50
+MrHairgrease	ok, the word 'everyone' triggered the question	16:50
@rizen	yeah, understood	16:51
@rizen	ok everyone that is in those three groups will be able to laugh at us	16:51
-!- wgGuest96 [n=wgGuest9@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has joined #webgui		16:56
wgGuest96	hello	16:56
BartJol	hi	16:56
wgGuest96	i have a question, in a macro can i create a group and add a user to this group?	16:56
+MrHairgrease	yes	16:57
+MrHairgrease	you can	16:57
wgGuest96	and if i want to create a collaboration system, and modify its properties, is it posible, too?	16:58
+MrHairgrease	yes	16:58
+MrHairgrease	but I'm not sure if you would wanna do something like that from a macro	16:58
+MrHairgrease	all of webgui's components are accessible through the api, so it would be possible to do from a macro	16:59
wgGuest96	the thing that i want to do is when a user try to register in my site, create a collaboration system and modify its properties	17:01
+MrHairgrease	ah i see	17:01
wgGuest96	is like a personal collaboration system simulating a blog	17:02
+MrHairgrease	in that case what i would do is create a utility script	17:02
+MrHairgrease	you can run a command on registration	17:02
+MrHairgrease	or	17:02
+MrHairgrease	even better	17:02
+MrHairgrease	if your webgui is new enough to support execution of a workflow on registration	17:03
+MrHairgrease	create a workflow activity that add the CS	17:03
+MrHairgrease	i think the registration workflow trigger was added in 7.4.	17:03
wgGuest96	if the specific user is only the person that has the possiblitity to modify the CS, is neccesary create a group per user?	17:04
+MrHairgrease	no	17:04
+MrHairgrease	just set the edit group to admins	17:04
+MrHairgrease	and make the user owner of the cs	17:05
+MrHairgrease	i think that would work	17:05
wgGuest96	if the user is the owner of the CS, he can edit it	17:06
+MrHairgrease	i'd think so	17:07
+MrHairgrease	yes	17:07
+MrHairgrease	see WebGUI::Asset->canEdit	17:08
wgGuest96	ok	17:08
wgGuest96	i am going to try, and if i have a question related, i will be ask you	17:09
+MrHairgrease	rizen: what if I'd use paymentId instead of paymentGatewayId	17:09
+MrHairgrease	?	17:09
+MrHairgrease	paymentGatewayId implies the id is generated by the psp	17:09
+MrHairgrease	while paymentId is more consitent with webgui naming	17:10
+MrHairgrease	and shorter	17:10
@rizen	the reason i didn't use that was i was concerned that it might be confused with an actual physical payment made by a patron of the shop	17:10
@rizen	when a programmer disects the system later	17:11
@rizen	how about just "payId"	17:12
@rizen	then at least it fits with the module name	17:12
@rizen	and that would be consistent with shipId on the other side	17:12
+MrHairgrease	hmm	17:13
+MrHairgrease	i think it's an ugly word	17:13
@rizen	i guess it's actually shipperId on the other side	17:13
+MrHairgrease	but then again	17:13
+MrHairgrease	it is short	17:13
+MrHairgrease	yeah it's shipperId	17:13
+MrHairgrease	which is also confusing	17:13
+MrHairgrease	or are those really related to a shipper?	17:14
+MrHairgrease	in stead of an instance of a shipment	17:14
@rizen	it's an instance of a ship driver	17:15
@rizen	but again, not a shipment which is an individual package being shipped out	17:16
+MrHairgrease	what about payDriverId?	17:19
@preaction	what is in a name?	17:22
@preaction	that which we call a rose, by any other name, would smell like feet	17:22
+MrHairgrease	ususally an n, an a, an m and an e	17:23
@preaction	don't forget that other a	17:23
+MrHairgrease	is this one of your movie allusions?	17:23
wgGuest96	MrHairgrease, i have created a CS with the admin user and then i changed the owner to a specific user and in who can post, who can edit, Who can post a thread, i put the admin group	17:24
@preaction	'a name' <- has two a's	17:24
+MrHairgrease	yeah i guess	17:25
+MrHairgrease	that works	17:25
+MrHairgrease	the best way to find out is to try it =)	17:25
wgGuest96	when i am logged in with the specific user and try to add something to the CS, i obtained an error that i don't have the permission	17:25
+MrHairgrease	preaction, i was refering to the set of constituent of 'a name'	17:25
+MrHairgrease	i actually forgot the space	17:25
@rizen	payDriverId is fine by me	17:26
@preaction	how dare you forget the most important bit! otherwise it'd be 'aname', which is just crazy!	17:26
+MrHairgrease	wgGuest96 the owner should be able to post	17:27
@preaction	is the CS committed?	17:27
@preaction	can't post to a CS that isn't committed	17:27
wgGuest96	yes	17:27
+MrHairgrease	can you start a thread as admin?	17:29
wgGuest96	yes, i can start a thread as admin	17:29
+MrHairgrease	in that case the the user that is the owner should be able to post a new thread	17:30
+MrHairgrease	try to reproduce it on demo.webgui.org	17:30
+MrHairgrease	and if you succeed in doing that post a bug report	17:30
wgGuest96	i created the CS with the admin user, then i changedthe owner, but only the admin is the person who can add a thread	17:32
+MrHairgrease	did you commit after changing the owner?	17:34
wgGuest96	yes	17:34
+MrHairgrease	then I dunno, are you able to recreate on demo.webgui.org?	17:34
wgGuest96	i am going to try in demo.webgui.org	17:35
+MrHairgrease	ok	17:35
BartJol	I'm trying to create a test for my macro, can I make an virtual asset (complete with all or some fields, especially the createdBy) in the test, just for testing purposes?	17:38
@preaction	yes	17:39
BartJol	just a simple yes or no is enough I'll try to find it myself, for my learning purpose	17:39
BartJol	great	17:39
@preaction	or you could create an actual asset and then remove it when you're done	17:39
BartJol	ah, and you can refer to the asset in the test by something like WebGUI::Asset->new(session, assetId)	17:40
BartJol	if you actually create the asset	17:41
@preaction	you can a reference from $importNode->addChild	17:41
@preaction	so my $asset = WebGUI::Asset->getImportNode( $session )->addChild( ... );	17:42
BartJol	ah, I'll try to go on from here then	17:43
BartJol	thanks	17:43
wgGuest96	MrHairgrease, i have tested the CS in demo.webgui.org, i obtained the same situation, only the admin can add a thread	17:46
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5663 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: wiki pages link to deleted pages	17:51
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5664 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): add another index to SQL Form tables	17:51
wgGuest96	i have another question, i want to create a survey and add a question, i want that the question can have two diffentes types of anwser, for example multichoice and a text where the user can explain his/her anwser	17:54
wgGuest96	can i do that?	17:54
+MrHairgrease	wgguest96: I can confirm the problem	17:55
+MrHairgrease	please p[ost a bug report about it	17:56
+MrHairgrease	afaik a survey question can have only one type	17:56
+MrHairgrease	but maybe you can use two questions instead	17:56
+MrHairgrease	one of each type...	17:56
wgGuest96	ok	17:57
BartJol	well, after adding a answer, you can also slect at what next? to add a comment field to the answer	17:58
BartJol	didn't fully tried it out, but the option exists	17:58
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+MrHairgrease	rizen: what did you have in mind for the plugin settings?	18:07
+MrHairgrease	stuff like vendor id, urlk to post to	18:07
+MrHairgrease	etc	18:07
+MrHairgrease	etc	18:07
+MrHairgrease	etc	18:07
BartJol	mmm, it works a bit different then I thought, seems not be able to do that wgGuest96	18:08
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5665 /WebGUI/sbin/spectre.pl: properly daemonize spectre	18:16
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+MrHairgrease	rizen: just uploaded wre-0.8.3-ubuntu-7.04-feisty-ia32.tar.gz to the sf.net ftp server	18:27
wgGuest96	BartJol, thanks i solved the problem	18:32
wgGuest96	i have another question, in one of my sites i want that the users can change the apparience of the sites. For example in a specific part of the site, they can change the background, the font etc	18:35
wgGuest96	how can i save the preferences per user?	18:35
wgGuest96	maybe with a macro	18:36
@preaction	in the user profile system, and then using the ^User(); macro to get that profile field. probably the best solution	18:40
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+perlDreamer	preaction: ya big perl hackin', french translating stud!	18:46
wgGuest96	preaction, for example if a create a field in user profile related to the background color that the user choose, how can set the value to that field?	18:46
@preaction	wgGuest96, they would edit their profile, see the field for "Select background color" and change it to what they like.	18:47
@rizen	file published, thanks mrhg	18:49
perlmonkey2	The current survey templates have a namespace for each template. Should I continue this? ie, the Survey Edit template goes in Survey/Edit ?	18:50
@rizen	MrHairgrease: yes the plugin settings will contain whatever is variable about that psp	18:50
@rizen	although url probably isn't one of those things	18:50
wgGuest96	but i want that the user can change the background only for an specific section	18:51
perlmonkey2	I'm guessing yes, as if there are multiple edit templates, we'd want them in the same namespace?	18:51
+perlDreamer	right on the money, perlmonkey2	18:51
+perlDreamer	it also prevents users from choosing an edit template for displaying surveys	18:51
perlmonkey2	groovy	18:51
+perlDreamer	which causes all sorts of problems	18:51
wgGuest96	if i change using the user profile, the background will be change to all the site?	18:51
perlmonkey2	hah, wow, there really is a rhyme and reason to all of this :)	18:51
+perlDreamer	So what's the hardest thing about using the asset system, as an experienced programmer new to wG?	18:52
perlmonkey2	me? I find the asset system quite intuative. I'm just having growing pains learning the WG library.	18:52
@preaction	wgGuest96, no. the change will be only in the place you put the ^User(); macro.	18:52
+perlDreamer	like what? (note, I'm fishing for material for a presentation)	18:53
perlmonkey2	hah	18:53
@rizen	and i'm fishing for information for a book	18:53
@preaction	i hate the name of processPropertiesFromFormPost. it's too long and FromForm is so hard to see if you misspelled it	18:53
+perlDreamer	rizen: try something by Stephen King :)	18:54
perlmonkey2	the biggest thing is lack of example code. It seems that every asset does the same thing in a different way, or uses a lib that might be abstracted away by another lib in the next asset over.	18:54
@rizen	preaction, but it's very descriptive	18:54
@preaction	processEditForm, like getEditForm ;-)	18:54
perlmonkey2	but that is probably because I'm so new to the library. As I learn more, things seem to make more sense.	18:54
@rizen	perlmonkey2 what you're looking at there is history	18:54
@rizen	there is lots of example code..every plugin is an example	18:55
wgGuest96	ok	18:55
@rizen	but they're done differntly because of passage of tiem	18:55
@rizen	we get better over time and write them better	18:55
@rizen	also, they're all written by different people	18:55
@preaction	at different stages in their knowledge of WebGUI	18:55
perlmonkey2	that was what I guessed. I know WG is a fairly new app, especially in its current form.	18:55
@preaction	I wrote the Calendar and the Gallery, and now I'm going back over the Calendar to make it look more like the Gallery	18:56
perlmonkey2	Maybe a list of exercises for new developers. Use these libs to do X, and these for Y.	18:57
wgGuest96	preaction, i am going to test and if i have another question i will ask you.	18:57
@preaction	wgGuest96, don't you have Plain Black Support? might be a good idea to ask them, since I fade in and out of here	18:57
perlmonkey2	There are three ways to create the new/edit form for an Asset. Autogenerate, tabforms, and a new template.	18:57
perlmonkey2	etc etc	18:57
perlmonkey2	probably 4 ways, since isn't there an htmlform also?	18:58
@preaction	perlmonkey2, but we need all three ways. and autogenerate / create-your-own-tabform are two sides of the same coin really	18:58
@preaction	Tabform is just a bunch of HTMLforms	18:58
@preaction	thrown together with the tabbing glue	18:58
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+perlDreamer	autogenerate is a wrapper around tabform	18:58
perlmonkey2	I'm not saying get rid of them, but maybe some exercises to familarize the new devs with them.	18:58
@rizen	got it, a form processing chapter in the dev book	18:59
perlmonkey2	But the automated portions of wg were the hardest to learn. I'm fairly comfortable with them now, at least enough to ask question. Now that I'm working on the part that acts as a traditional MVC, I'm not running into anything too difficult.	18:59
@rizen	going offline...see you guys later	19:00
perlmonkey2	And it is a well designed system that makes sense, once I had a bunch of help walking through it :)	19:00
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SDuensin	Good morning.	19:00
perlmonkey2	Good morning.	19:01
+perlDreamer	morning, SDuensin	19:01
+perlDreamer	how's life in Java-ville?	19:01
SDuensin	Damn good, actually. :-)	19:03
SDuensin	Things are working well.	19:03
SDuensin	Hey, anybody here an Apache guru?	19:04
* perlDreamer is perl-centric		19:05
SDuensin	Yea, kinda noticed you're not apacheDreamer. :-P	19:05
+perlDreamer	why don't you just ask your question, and see what pops up?	19:05
SDuensin	OK. I have a ton of web servers I run for development purposes. At the moment, I've slung them all off oddball port numbers so I can reach them through my firewall...	19:06
+MrHairgrease	hey pd	19:06
+MrHairgrease	just made my first perl tests today	19:06
SDuensin	What I want is for one server to reverse proxy the incoming requests to the correct server based on the name in the HTTP header.	19:06
+perlDreamer	"You've made your first step into a larger world"	19:06
+perlDreamer	SDuensin, sounds exactly like WRE's mod_proxy setup	19:07
+MrHairgrease	well, i took your shipping tests and modified/extended them to work for the pyment stuff	19:07
+MrHairgrease	sduensin, you could do that with rewriterules	19:07
SDuensin	So a request to www.site1.com goes to what the proxy box's DNS says is www.site1.com and www.site2.com goes to it's address, etc.	19:07
SDuensin	Rewrite won't work because the internal boxes aren't visible to the outside world.	19:07
+MrHairgrease	mod_rewrite can also proxy pages	19:08
+MrHairgrease	that's what the wre does	19:08
@preaction	SDuensin, that's a simple reverse proxy, apache's mod_proxy and ProxyPass / ProxyPassReverse will work just fine	19:08
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@preaction	the people in the #apache channel might have docs on the situation	19:08
SDuensin	preaction - but do I have to teach it about every server inside my net? I just want it to blindly fire at whatever is requested so I don't have to screw with it. :-)	19:09
SDuensin	Yea, I know #apache is better, but I was already here. :-D	19:09
+MrHairgrease	yeah but mod_proxy cannot make decisions based on http header data right?	19:09
* SDuensin has no idea.		19:09
@preaction	you don't need to teach it. with a RewriteCond to grab the HTTP host and a RewriteRule with [P] for the proxy	19:10
@preaction	but, the reverse proxy server will need to know the internal IPs of the hosts	19:10
+MrHairgrease	yea +> hence use mod_rewrite	19:10
@preaction	the hosts need to resolve to the internal IPs	19:10
@preaction	on that box	19:10
SDuensin	They do.	19:10
+MrHairgrease	anyway, time to go home	19:10
+MrHairgrease	see you later	19:11
SDuensin	mod_rewrite hurts my brain. But [P] gives me something to look into.	19:11
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+perlDreamer	preaction: if the proxy box knows the IP addresses, could they be name addressed instead?	19:11
@preaction	they will be. the RP Apache gets a request for HTTP_HOST, it then does a proxy to that same host, which resolves to a different IP for the RP Apache	19:12
@preaction	it's... suboptimal... but it might work	19:12
SDuensin	So what is... optimal...?	19:12
SDuensin	In the time I've read about doing it in Apache, I could have written it in Java. :-)	19:13
@preaction	a vhost for each host the reverse proxy serves and either the same general proxy or a specific proxy for each host.	19:17
@preaction	i mean, if someone else will have to maintain this someday, the overriding all-encompassing proxy thing might be a bit difficult to understand	19:17
SDuensin	Na, it's just for me.	19:18
@preaction	ah, then whatever works	19:18
SDuensin	All this crap runs in my house. "Real" servers get dedicated hosting.	19:18
CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5666 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Conver the FlatRate shipping driver to use exceptions.	19:18
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SDuensin	Well, thanks for the brain food. :-)	19:22
SDuensin	Now I have a WebGUI question...	19:22
SDuensin	Do the latest builds of WebGUI (7.4.25) still work with the old WRE?	19:23
+perlDreamer	no	19:23
@preaction	JSON incompatibilities	19:23
SDuensin	I was afraid of that. :-)	19:23
+perlDreamer	new wG's need new WREs, for the JSON fiasco of 2k8	19:23
SDuensin	JSON Fiasco of 2k8? API changes?	19:23
@preaction	catastrophe!	19:23
* SDuensin loves JSON.		19:23
+perlDreamer	oy	19:23
+perlDreamer	JSON	19:23
+perlDreamer	rocks	19:23
@preaction	the horrendous JSON kablooie!	19:23
+perlDreamer	JSON.pm changed it's API, and wG broke bad	19:24
+perlDreamer	it's taken us 6 weeks to recover	19:24
@preaction	Haarg, I'm merging and testing my changes in SVN HEAD now. So I should be done in a bit so you can release after.	19:24
+perlDreamer	one more module to convert over to exceptions...	19:25
@Haarg	the annoying thing is that the new version JSON was supposed to be compatible	19:26
+perlDreamer	it is API compatible, but now it throws exceptions instead of returning undef/''	19:27
@Haarg	the api isn't compatible though, not if you use the extra parameters	19:27
+perlDreamer	oh. I didn't know that.	19:27
perlmonkey2	How do you go about complex template development? Do you edit in the asset manager and then view your results in wg?	19:39
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+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2: I hack all my templates in vim, and then upload into wG via a script called templateFiler	19:40
+perlDreamer	it's in the contribs area	19:40
perlmonkey2	okay	19:41
perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: while you are hacking on them, how to you view iterations of them?	19:41
+perlDreamer	iterations?	19:41
+perlDreamer	my cycle looks like this	19:42
+perlDreamer	hack, upload, test (view/use) repeat	19:42
@preaction	Haarg, i lied, this is going to take longer. I can't commit to my experimental branch because SVN hates the fact that I tried to merge from HEAD	19:43
@Haarg	heh	19:43
perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: heh, I don't like that process :P Lots of busy work inbetween cycles.	19:43
perlmonkey2	maybe I should write something.....	19:43
@Haarg	svn merging is rather painful	19:44
@Haarg	i kind of gave up on svnmerge	19:44
+perlDreamer	back to doing it by hand?	19:44
@Haarg	actually i'm using git now	19:45
+perlDreamer	bridged over to svn?	19:45
@Haarg	yeah	19:45
+perlDreamer	I keep meaning to learn svk	19:45
@preaction	imma try to make a patch from what i've changed, then attempt to fix my experimental at some future time	19:45
@Haarg	i tried svk, but there's several things that bugged me about it	19:46
+perlDreamer	like what?	19:46
@Haarg	lack of relocatable working areas is one thing that annoyed me from the start	19:47
@Haarg	i always ended up having to go hack its config files because they were out of sync with reality	19:47
@Haarg	and i wasn't impressed with the speed either	19:48
+perlDreamer	well, it is written in perl	19:48
perlmonkey2	Ah, for some reason the info in my template's head block is not being used. If I put the links in the body of the template they work, but if I put them in the head block, they aren't rendered.	19:53
perlmonkey2	title link ans script tags are in the head block and don't ever get rendered. Am I doing something wrong?	19:54
@preaction	put it through the W3C's validator	19:55
@preaction	no style template. view the source and see if there even is a head block	19:56
perlmonkey2	preaction: no, when I view the source, it doens't have a head	19:57
perlmonkey2	but if I take the exact same code, wrap it in <head> tags and put it bad in the body of the template, it works.	19:57
@preaction	you either need a style template / processStyle, or you need to make the <html> <head> </head> <body> </body> </html> yourself	19:58
perlmonkey2	Also, it looks like the YUI version in Wg may be a littledated and missing some library files I need. Should Ijust add them to the yui tree, update my yui tree, or add them to the extras/wobject/Survey dir?	19:58
@preaction	the yui version in SVN HEAD is 2.5.0, so you can update to that if you'd like	19:58
perlmonkey2	preaction: Oh, since I'm not running processStyle anything put in the template head portion is ignored...okay, that makes sense.	19:58
perlmonkey2	/yui/build/menu/assets should contain skins/sam/menu.css	20:01
perlmonkey2	oh....svn update just added a ton new yui files	20:01
+perlDreamer	Getting an RSS feed of HEAD is a very good idea :)	20:02
+perlDreamer	especially if you're developing	20:02
perlmonkey2	that is a really good idea, but liferea doesn't like WG feeds for some reason.	20:03
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wgGuest02	Hey perlDreamer!	20:06
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wgGuest02	We got a macro testing question for you.	20:07
+perlDreamer	lay it on me	20:07
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wgGuest02	Do you have a model of how to test a macro.	20:09
wgGuest02	Writing a macro to setup a queue type system but need some way of testing it	20:09
+perlDreamer	well, first of all I always test the interface.	20:09
+perlDreamer	Then I test using it	20:10
+perlDreamer	You'd have to tell me more about the system for me to be more specific	20:10
wgGuest02	bascally this macro will return an account number but it needs to run a select query then an update query	20:11
wgGuest02	And i need a way to test this.. weather its a test script or just doing it threw webgui	20:12
wgGuest02	but i like to output text along the way to ensure its doing what i want	20:12
wgGuest02	but of course in the live version i just need it to return the account number once its called	20:12
+perlDreamer	I'd use webgui's logging for the interim data	20:13
+perlDreamer	but It should be very testable through our current test setup	20:13
+perlDreamer	make a macro call, check the output returned	20:14
+perlDreamer	verify that the db update happened	20:14
+perlDreamer	did that make sense?	20:15
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wgGuest02	can we access resources in webgui like database links	20:16
+perlDreamer	sure	20:17
+perlDreamer	you can make any API call that you like	20:17
wgGuest02	awesome	20:17
+perlDreamer	all tests start with a session, that gives you pretty much the whole package	20:17
wgGuest02	alright	20:18
+perlDreamer	the only thing we're missing now is Cookie handling	20:18
wgGuest02	What did you mean by test the interface?	20:18
+perlDreamer	does the macro accept parameters?	20:18
+perlDreamer	^macro(param1,param2); ?	20:18
wgGuest02	Yes	20:18
wgGuest02	it will	20:18
+perlDreamer	then you should make sure that the macro behaves well when the parameters aren't there	20:19
+perlDreamer	that's what I call interface testing	20:19
wgGuest02	alright	20:19
wgGuest02	Do you recommand a test script that we can start from?	20:19
+perlDreamer	t/Macro/a_account.t	20:20
+perlDreamer	I have a meeting to go to in 5 minutes, but you can leave notes here, or email me questions on the dev list	20:20
+perlDreamer	btw, who are you?	20:20
wgGuest02	Josh with knowmad	20:21
+perlDreamer	glad I could help you, Josh	20:21
wgGuest02	thank you!	20:21
+perlDreamer	knowmad seems to be doing a lot of wG work	20:21
wgGuest02	we try	20:22
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@preaction	Haarg, i'm done and committed (finally)	20:50
CIA-21	WebGUI: doug * r5667 /WebGUI/ (11 files in 10 dirs):	20:55
CIA-21	WebGUI: add: Calendar List view and associated Help	20:55
CIA-21	WebGUI: add: Ical Page length	20:55
CIA-21	WebGUI: add: WWW::Mech tests for Auth and Redirect	20:55
@Haarg	that'll make a lot of people happy	20:56
@preaction	that's the plan	20:57
@preaction	one issue though: i have to ask those happy people to make a template to put in the core. the one that's there is not good at all	20:57
@preaction	and wasn't meant to be good, for that matter	20:57
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+perlDreamer	I really like that people are using the Java client to talk to us	22:57
+perlDreamer	but I wish it would make them identify themselves	22:57
BartJol	thankfully I've got the sjon-blues to :)	23:01
+perlDreamer	sing it, brother	23:07
BartJol	maybe I've got a real song for the WUV	23:08
BartJol	Wuc	23:08
BartJol	well	23:08
BartJol	JSON text must be an object or array (but found number, string, true, false or null, use allow_nonref to allow this) at /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/Config/JSON.pm line 134	23:09
BartJol	updating to 7.4.22 seemed to go ok	23:09
BartJol	but it won't restart	23:09
BartJol	changed the JSON objt to the from_JSON in json.pm	23:11
BartJol	but this is gonna be a very bad song-text	23:11
BartJol	is it the Config::JSON?	23:12
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+perlDreamer	BartJol, if you can, I'd upgrade all the way to 7.4.25	23:58
--- Day changed Fri Feb 29 2008
+perlDreamer	and then upgrade both JSON and Config::JSON	00:01
+perlDreamer	that seems to be stable	00:01
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CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5668 /translations/Polish/ (5 files in 2 dirs): update_from_translation_server	00:18
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GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: WRE Installation - Edited on 2/28/2008 4:15 pm by JayDaley http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/wre-installation	00:26
+perlDreamer	who decides who catches an exception?	00:34
@preaction	what do you mean?	00:34
+perlDreamer	Right now I'm building the wrapper for the shipping driver.	00:35
+perlDreamer	Shop::Ship	00:35
+perlDreamer	Shop::Ship has a create method that is a factory class for all the ShipDrivers	00:35
+perlDreamer	If a ShipDriver constructor should throw an exception when building a requested driver object, should Shop::Ship->create catch it, or should it be allowed to float higher up in the stack?	00:36
@preaction	what would you do if you caught it?	00:36
+perlDreamer	that's the question	00:36
+perlDreamer	I think it should get caught higher up	00:36
+perlDreamer	But I'm just a chip hacker, not a highly trained computer science guy	00:37
+perlDreamer	s/chip hacker/dumb, stupid, ugly, frustrated chip hacker/	00:37
@preaction	i think it should just let it propagate, with the end result either being caught by the www_ method and displaying a friendly error message, or going all the way up and logging an error	00:38
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wgGuest99	hello	00:39
wgGuest99	i want to create a collaboration system in a macro, i am using the next sentence WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Collaboration->newByUrl($session);	00:41
wgGuest99	the macro don't show me an error but i don't know if really the collaboration system is created	00:41
@preaction	newByUrl instantiates, doesn't create	00:41
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: WRE Installation - Edited on 2/28/2008 4:31 pm by JayDaley http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/wre-installation	00:41
@preaction	addChild is the only real way to create an asset	00:41
* perlDreamer agrees with the delegate from Wisconsin		00:42
@preaction	the motion is carried	00:42
* preaction bangs gavel		00:43
Samus_Aran	anyone know how to stop spectre from filling up hundreds of megabytes of Apache log files ?	00:45
+perlDreamer	killall -9 'spectre'	00:46
Samus_Aran	. . .	00:46
@preaction	which log file? the error log? the access log?	00:46
Samus_Aran	access	00:46
wgGuest99	preaction, the sentence will be like this WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Collaboration->addChild({});	00:46
@preaction	wgGuest99, no. read the documentation for addChild. it's in AssetLineage.pm	00:46
wgGuest99	the properties will be the template id, the permissions, etc	00:46
Samus_Aran	it's hitting it constantly, and diluting the log file	00:46
@preaction	Samus_Aran, anything that requests something from apache goes to the access log	00:49
Samus_Aran	preaction: so everyone elses webgui has millions of spectre hits showing up ? I would have assumed that the packaged webgui ignored them	00:50
@preaction	why? how?	00:51
Samus_Aran	?	00:52
@preaction	why would webgui want to ignore spectre?	00:52
@preaction	how could webgui ignore spectre and have things still work?	00:52
@preaction	if apache processes it, apache logs it. that's how it works	00:52
Samus_Aran	I'm talking about Apache not logging spectre hits	00:52
Samus_Aran	I'm asking if people using the packaged WebGUI also have the millions of hits showing, or is the packaged Apache instructed not to log them ?	00:53
@preaction	do you mean the WRE? i don't know what you mean by "packaged WebGUI". and the WRE directs spectre to the modperl instance, while it logs on the modproxy instance	00:54
@preaction	of course, it doesn't do that by default, but that would do what you're asking	00:55
Samus_Aran	I did a manual install following the web site instructions, WRE was the packaged one I was talking about, I forgot the acronym	00:57
@preaction	unless someone specifically directs spectre to the mod_perl instance of the WRE, it will hit the mod_proxy instance and get logged in the access log	00:57
Samus_Aran	on a manual install, can I 'direct spectre to the mod_perl instance' ?	00:58
@preaction	i don't know. do you have two instances of apache running?	00:59
+perlDreamer	time to build a ballot box stuffer	00:59
+perlDreamer	http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/02/28/2029218&from=rss	00:59
+perlDreamer	we all know what ubuntu _really_ needs is a good perl based CMS	01:00
MrHairgreas1	dammit	01:00
MrHairgreas1	Tavis is sending threat emails	01:00
MrHairgreas1	Okay Martin! WHAT THE FUUUUUUK? �I'M GONNA BE MESSIN WID YOU MAN!�	01:00
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MrHairgreas1	what are you feeding him?	01:00
Samus_Aran	in only a couple weeks of Spectre being up, there are already 933,821 hits	01:01
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Samus_Aran	it seems excessive	01:01
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Samus_Aran	preaction: I have one instance running	01:01
+perlDreamer	Raw meat laced with Murray' Hair Pomade	01:01
@preaction	then you only have one instance to point spectre at	01:01
+MrHairgrease	Samus_Aran: spectre talks to webgui through http	01:02
Samus_Aran	MrHairgrease: yes, I understand that. I just want it to not log it	01:02
Samus_Aran	I am trying to figure out how to instruct Apache to ignore it	01:02
+MrHairgrease	Ah	01:03
+MrHairgrease	I'm not sure how to do that either	01:03
+MrHairgrease	maybe you could use some log filter	01:03
+perlDreamer	you don't	01:03
+perlDreamer	use you a good log filter	01:03
cap10morgan	Can you test the creation of a wobject the way it would be created via admin interface (i.e. it runs ProcessPropertiesFromFormPost w/ assetId == 'new')?	01:04
@preaction	cap10morgan, yes	01:04
+perlDreamer	func=add ?	01:04
@preaction	either with getPage func=add or with WWW::Mech	01:04
@preaction	it's func=editSave actually	01:05
+perlDreamer	start with func=add, use mech to get/configure the fields, then call editSave	01:05
@preaction	func=editSave;assetId=new;class=<classname> on the parent asset will create a new asset	01:05
@preaction	not sure if it's class= or className=, but it is one of those two	01:05
cap10morgan	and can I get the assetId from that to then start testing w/ the new instance?	01:05
@preaction	you'd have to look it up	01:06
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cap10morgan	like this?: http://webgui.pastebin.com/d310ceada	01:17
CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5669 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm: add more POD docs about Asset constructors and instanciators	01:23
CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5670 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm: forward port better POD docs for Asset instanciators	01:23
CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5671 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm: side port better POD docs for Asset instanciators	01:23
+perlDreamer	preaction: those should help in the future	01:23
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@preaction	cap10morgan, yeah, that should work	01:24
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+perlDreamer	++perlmonkey2	01:24
Samus_Aran	perlDreamer: what do you mean by "a good log filter" ?	01:24
cap10morgan	preaction: hmm, ok. when i run it, i seem to be getting the edit form back in $html, with assetId set to 'new' in a hidden form field.	01:25
Samus_Aran	I don't want spectre hits logged at all. if there are errors, those are fine to log	01:25
Samus_Aran	they are pointless and constant, and number in the millions	01:25
@preaction	Samus_Aran, as i've said numerous times now: If it hits Apache, it gets logged.	01:25
+perlDreamer	sounds like you need to build a custom logger then	01:25
@preaction	Apache questions can be directed to #apache	01:26
Samus_Aran	preaction: unless you tell apache to not log it. all I ever asked about was if the WRE already has that Apache option enabled, as I am trying to figure out what it is	01:26
+MrHairgrease	Samus_Aran: http://www.google.nl/search?hl=nl&q=apache+log+filter&btnG=Google+zoeken&meta=	01:26
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: as far we know, there are no special logging instructions in the WRE	01:27
+MrHairgrease	http://cronolog.org/usage.html	01:29
+MrHairgrease	maybe you can also bolt the logfilter.org software into your apache	01:29
Samus_Aran	MrHairgrease: thank you. however I use a custom log format which is tab separated and easy to parse. my issue is it being slow to process hundreds of megabytes of needless logging	01:29
+MrHairgrease	CustomLog "\|/path/to/cronolog [OPTIONS] logfile-spec" [format]	01:29
+MrHairgrease	if you use some filtering command in stead of /path/to/chronolog i'm pretty sure you can filter all the crap out andprevent it from being included in your log file	01:30
+MrHairgrease	In other words, in that way you can keep your format and still prevent spectre hits from popping up in your log.	01:31
+MrHairgrease	As far as i know this is your only option	01:32
+MrHairgrease	of course you could alway log to /dev/null =)	01:32
CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5672 /translations/Polish/Polish/ (Asset.pm Asset_Article.pm): update_from_translation_server	01:45
CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5673 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (4 files in 4 dirs):	01:45
CIA-21	WebGUI: Add more POD to Pluggable.	01:45
CIA-21	WebGUI: Add more POD to FlatRate.pm, for the to be written calculate method.	01:45
CIA-21	WebGUI: Build create and new methods for Ship, convert existing code to throw exceptions.	01:45
CIA-21	WebGUI: Tests for Ship, that look suspiciously similar to ShipDriver.	01:45
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Samus_Aran	MrHairgrease: got it working, if you or anyone else is interested	01:53
+MrHairgrease	sure	01:53
+MrHairgrease	what did you do	01:53
+MrHairgrease	Samus_Aran: could you tell me what you did to get it working?	01:57
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: You can always make a wiki page for it	01:58
CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5674 /translations/Polish/Polish/ (Icon.pm Asset_Article.pm AuthWebGUI.pm Form_Captcha.pm): update_from_translation_server	02:01
+perlDreamer	go jdan go!	02:01
Samus_Aran	(sorry, net at the office died, and thus so did my SSH connection to home)	02:02
+perlDreamer	We suggested that you make a wiki page	02:02
+perlDreamer	so that others can benefit from what you've learned	02:02
Samus_Aran	do I need to create an account, or can anyone add a page ?	02:02
jdan	perlDreamer: thanks, but tommorow. I mast go sleep. It is 1 am :-(	02:02
Samus_Aran	I don't have time to create an account at the moment	02:02
+MrHairgrease	so how did you do it then?	02:03
+perlDreamer	I'm guessing that you need to create an account.	02:03
Samus_Aran	SetEnvIf User-Agent Spectre WebGUI_Spectre	02:03
Samus_Aran	CustomLog /var/log/apache2/access.log General env=!WebGUI_Spectre	02:03
Samus_Aran	where General is the name of the LogFormat	02:03
+MrHairgrease	ok	02:05
+MrHairgrease	cool	02:05
+perlDreamer	sleep well, jdan	02:05
jdan	perlDreamer: I would like show you my commerce system which I made in WebGUI 5 version. It support 30 e-shops at Poland. Maybe my knowledge will be helpful.	02:05
Samus_Aran	MrHairgrease: the setenvif thing sets the variable if it find a match (User-Agent variable = Spectre) and then it specifies to log only if the environment variable WebGUI_Spectre is not set	02:09
+perlDreamer	I'd love to see it. I'm sure JT would, too	02:09
Samus_Aran	*finds	02:09
* Samus_Aran gets back to work		02:09
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jdan	ok, so see tommorow.	02:11
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@rizen	hey pd!	02:29
@rizen	when is jdan going to show us his code?	02:30
Samus_Aran	anyone know why, after importing a bunch of themes in wgpkg format, then trying to use the theme, they have no images and are all screwed up looking ?	02:44
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Samus_Aran	none of them look even remotely like the screenshots did. even the default webgui theme seems messed odd, as it is completely plain, just like all these ones I now installed	02:46
@preaction	is there anything in the webgui.log? something like "could not create storage location"?	02:47
perlmonkey2	When, installed cent and now building a WG env on my faster server, so I can actually develop wg without constantly waiting on a slow machine.	02:47
Samus_Aran	preaction: I will look	02:47
Samus_Aran	a lot of "Asset constructor new() requires an assetId." and "Pass in object came back undefined for activity using WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Collaboration"	02:48
Samus_Aran	and: Couldn't get UI level of WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WeatherData. Root cause: Can't locate object method "getUiLevel"	02:49
Samus_Aran	okay, I had to scroll up a bunch: Could not set uid/gid	02:50
@preaction	the Asset constructor new() / Pass-in object came back are symptoms of the same problem: some collab systems got deleted, but their workflows for updating their stuff wasn't	02:50
Samus_Aran	why would it have that issue ?	02:50
Samus_Aran	there is one couldn't set permission thing for every new file added	02:50
@preaction	that's also a non-issue, you imported a package and the user who was trying to chown wasn't root	02:50
@preaction	couldn't set permissions might be a problem though	02:51
@preaction	the uid/gid isn't a problem	02:51
@preaction	is the uploads directory owned by the same user apache is running as?	02:51
Samus_Aran	I have a script to set the permissions for all the web sites, will run that now	02:52
Samus_Aran	in the sidebar, there is a new section called Package now, and opening it and clicking one of the items doesn't seem to do anything. what is it supposed to do ?	02:54
CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5675 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Ship.pm t/Shop/Ship.t): add Tests for getShippers, and some code for the method too.	02:56
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Samus_Aran	I just compared the screenshots of one of the themes (Zenlike) to what is showing up, and it is missing all the images	02:58
@preaction	it deploys the package inside the current asset	02:58
Samus_Aran	if the the uid/gid wasn't a problem, then there were no problems importing	02:58
@preaction	no 404 errors in the apache error log?	02:59
Samus_Aran	no, just hundreds of: Could not set uid/gid on '/var/www/WebGUI/www/uploads/temp/...'	03:02
Samus_Aran	the permissions are fine, though	03:02
Samus_Aran	accessible by the web server	03:02
Samus_Aran	all I did was go to the assets, browse to import the wgpkg file, clicked import, went to a page, selected the display theme that was installed	03:03
@preaction	i'd suspect that the themes themselves are broken, if not for that the default style is broken too	03:03
Samus_Aran	are those the correct steps ?	03:03
Samus_Aran	I think the default is broken, but I don't know what it is supposed to look like. does it use any images ?	03:03
Samus_Aran	the 4.x is the last one I used, and it was far more stylish than the current one	03:03
Samus_Aran	it's just one box currently	03:04
Samus_Aran	(the default theme)	03:04
Samus_Aran	Radix-wrk: it is your theme I am looking at right now, the Zenlike one	03:04
@preaction	did you use the style wizard? (click Yes, Please in the Site Starter Wizard)	03:04
Samus_Aran	no, I did the steps I listed above	03:05
@preaction	if so, then you made your own style, and that style has only one image that I know of, the logo you set in that wizard	03:05
@preaction	i mean when you created the site	03:05
@preaction	the initial configuration	03:05
Samus_Aran	the logo I set in the wizard never appeared	03:06
Samus_Aran	it just says "logo"	03:06
Samus_Aran	I uploaded the org's logo successfully, so said the wizard, but it doesn't appear, either	03:07
@preaction	so it would seem you have problems with all images. what version are you running? there was an issue with one of the 7.4s	03:08
Samus_Aran	<meta name="generator" content="WebGUI 7.4.22" />	03:09
@preaction	try upgrading	03:09
Samus_Aran	to the beta ?	03:10
@preaction	no, the latest stable	03:10
-!- preaction changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.26-stable / 7.5.4-beta \| WRE 0.8.3 ] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org \| Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com/		03:10
@preaction	you can't go to the beta anyway, you're past 7.4.21	03:10
Samus_Aran	okay, will try an upgrade	03:12
Samus_Aran	thank you	03:12
+Radix-wrk	I've imported those themes into 7.4.19 fine and not had an issue.	03:36
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CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5676 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Ship.pm t/Shop/Ship.t): Finalize getShippers, along with tests.	06:19
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CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5677 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (3 files in 3 dirs):	06:31
CIA-21	WebGUI: Add a field to the InvalidParam exception.	06:31
CIA-21	WebGUI: Use it in Ship.pm for documenting bad requested classes, and test	06:31
CIA-21	WebGUI: its use.	06:31
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CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5678 /WebGUI/ (t/Asset/Redirect/mech.t lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm t/Storage.t): fixing test warnings, Storage should always return to the correct directory	09:16
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5679 /WebGUI/docs/ (changelog/7.x.x.txt create.sql): preparing for 7.5.4 release	09:16
CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5680 /releases/WebGUI_7.5.4-beta: Release 7.5.4-beta	09:31
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SDuensin	Morning.	15:58
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bartjol	morning	16:19
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lisette	hello	17:00
lisette	how to do a javascript that recived a result from a macro?	17:01
bartjol	is it not working?	17:03
bartjol	can be that the javascript is executed before the macro	17:04
lisette	and how to?	17:06
@preaction	macros are executed right before the page is sent to the user, javascript is executed after the page is sent to the user	17:07
lisette	and how to get a result of macro?	17:10
@preaction	you put it in the page and it runs/	17:10
lisette	yes, but my macro return 1 or 0, and i need obtain this result with a fuction javascript	17:11
@preaction	so put it in a javascript variable/	17:11
bartjol	sorry, sometimes I confuse server and client side... should be working on that	17:13
bartjol	but then there shouldn't be a problem, especially if you store it in a variable	17:13
lisette	i try	17:16
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lisette	Equalled a variable to the macro? i mean var = ^macro(); ?	17:22
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bartjol	yes but don't forget to assign the variable var myvar=^macro();	17:30
bartjol	I believe	17:30
lisette	thanks	17:32
bartjol	good luck	17:32
bartjol	mm and maybe yoy should put parenthsesis around the macro: "^macro();"	17:33
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@preaction	yeah. the macro will get processed before the JS, so the JS will never see the ^Macro(); stuff	17:46
@preaction	it goes: Template, Macros, then Sent to client	17:46
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CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5681 /tools/translationserver.cgi: added maintainers notes	17:50
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bartjol	preaction sorry I learn and forget it seems, but well, it's friday afternoon and beers are calling me	17:52
+Radix_	enjoy, drink a weinerstephan for me will ya :)	17:56
bartjol	not yet unfortunately, I'm not allowed to leave before 7.5.4 is translated	18:01
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CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5682 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): preparing for 7.5.5 dev	18:20
+perlDreamer	what is jQuery?	18:21
bartjol	jQuery is a fast, concise, JavaScript Library that simplifies how you traverse HTML documents, handle events, perform animations, and add Ajax interactions to your web pages.	18:29
bartjol	:)	18:30
@preaction	it's JAJSL - Just Another JavaScript Library ;-)	18:31
bartjol	now, the translation is done, committed, and found 3 typo's in the English	18:33
bartjol	time for beer	18:33
@preaction	pfft... correcting my English you jerk	18:33
bartjol	sorry, but you're allowed tyo correct mu dutch if you want	18:33
bartjol	and my english :)	18:33
@preaction	oh, and then insult me by insinuating I don't know Dutch	18:34
@preaction	well the joke's on you! I don't know Dutch at all!	18:34
@preaction	er... wait	18:34
bartjol	bye, have fun	18:34
bartjol	waiting	18:34
+perlDreamer	are the typos posted, or did you fix them?	18:35
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@preaction	he posted them ;-)	18:35
@preaction	they're mainly in the Calendar help i just wrote i think	18:35
bartjol	poisted them	18:35
+perlDreamer	want me to fix them?	18:35
@preaction	if you'd like, go ahead	18:35
bartjol	can't change the english, unless you give me commit access	18:36
bartjol	but bye, joeri says I've gotta go	18:36
@preaction	may want to let me know if it's understandable, i tried to get the whole Calendar / Event vars relationship, but I don't know if it's understandable	18:36
wgGuest57	hello	18:37
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@preaction	plus the new Calendar Date/Time Variables page	18:37
@preaction	wgGuest57, hello	18:37
wgGuest57	i have a question	18:37
@preaction	we've got answers	18:37
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wgGuest57	i have created a collaboration system using a macro but when it is created a commit version is stablished. how can i commit this version tag?	18:38
wgGuest57	each user has the posibility to create his own collaboration system, but how to commit the version tag created per user?	18:40
+perlDreamer	1) Read the API docs for the whole Asset system	18:40
+perlDreamer	2) Fetch the versiontag from the Collaboration System	18:40
+perlDreamer	3) Commit it manually	18:40
@preaction	just commit the working version tag, read the WebGUI::VersionTag API. look at getWorking and commit	18:41
+perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/api	18:41
@preaction	is there a wiki page on how to create and use wgpkg files yet?	18:41
wgGuest57	ok	18:41
@preaction	i'm not finding one	18:41
+perlDreamer	preaction: calendar docs are in 7.5 or 7.4?	18:41
wgGuest57	i am going to check	18:41
@preaction	7.5	18:41
@preaction	i added the List View	18:42
@preaction	and a way to set the iCalendar page size	18:42
+perlDreamer	just as an FYI, using q\|\| fixes more problems than using single quotes	18:44
@preaction	we could use double-quotes and then the quotemeta() perl function and we'd be golden probably	18:45
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@preaction	i still say it should be some sort of serialization / markup language in there. then we wouldn't have parsing problems at all	18:45
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CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5683 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Asset_Calendar.pm: update_from_translation_server	18:48
CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5684 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed some typos in the calendar help	18:48
wgGuest57	i want to know the content of this book, Become an Active WebGUI Community Member. What can i find in it?	18:51
wgGuest57	we want to know more documentation about create wobjects	18:54
+perlDreamer	there are examples on the wiki of how to build wobjects	18:59
+perlDreamer	the other one is a recording of a live web talk, it isn't a book	19:00
+perlDreamer	later this year, the WebGUI Developer's book will be out	19:04
@preaction	http://www.plainblack.com/pr/staff/blog/its-back-the-calendar-list-view-needs-your-help <- it's away. Open contest for a Calendar List View Template	19:16
+perlDreamer	To answer your questions	19:17
+perlDreamer	Everything. See #1. No	19:17
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@rizen	and i'm back in the game	19:21
+perlDreamer	welcome back player	19:22
+perlDreamer	your health is at 97%	19:22
+perlDreamer	and you are fully equipped	19:22
@rizen	feels like 85%	19:22
@rizen	fully equipped is good though	19:22
@rizen	it's time to kick ass and chew bubble gum, and i'm all out of gum	19:23
@rizen	so where are we at re: commerce	19:23
@rizen	any significant developments	19:23
+perlDreamer	All modules converted to exceptions, with tests	19:24
+perlDreamer	ShipDrivers, done, except for the calculate method and UI	19:24
+perlDreamer	Tax, done, except for calculate method and UI	19:24
+perlDreamer	Ship done, except for getOptions and UI	19:24
+perlDreamer	I need more cart contents to finish them out	19:24
+perlDreamer	which reminds me	19:24
+perlDreamer	how are Product and Sku related?	19:25
@rizen	product is a subclass of sku	19:25
@rizen	or rather will be	19:25
@rizen	or at least WebGUI::Asset::Sku::Product will be	19:25
+perlDreamer	I was a little confused, since it isn't in the sku docs.	19:25
+perlDreamer	right	19:25
@rizen	in the docs i kind of use the words item, sku, and product interchangably	19:26
@rizen	maybe i shouldn't	19:26
@rizen	but to me their all just stuff you sell	19:26
+perlDreamer	oh, and I need a consult on this:	19:26
+perlDreamer	perl -lane 'printf("bcd80 %40s bcd80 %40s\n", @F);'	19:26
+perlDreamer	any idea why it would not work?	19:26
@rizen	you're missing s on the front of prinf	19:27
@rizen	printf	19:27
+perlDreamer	printf is a valid function	19:27
+perlDreamer	perldoc -f printf	19:27
@rizen	oh	19:28
+perlDreamer	it must be a vim problem, since it works on the command line	19:29
@rizen	what does -lane do	19:29
+perlDreamer	-l autoremove line endings	19:29
@rizen	e is execute	19:29
+perlDreamer	-a autosplit into the @F array using whitespace by default	19:29
+perlDreamer	-n, wrap the -e code in this:	19:29
+perlDreamer	while (<>) { __your_code__ }	19:29
+perlDreamer	as opposed to -p	19:30
+perlDreamer	while (<>) { __your_code__ } continue { print }	19:30
+perlDreamer	oh, -l not only removes line endings, but if you use -p it puts them back for you, too	19:30
+perlDreamer	and -i, edit in place	19:30
+perlDreamer	memorizing those saves me hours in text editors	19:31
+perlDreamer	I need some richer cart content to really test ShipDriver and Tax	19:33
CIA-21	WebGUI: doug * r5685 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs):	19:34
CIA-21	WebGUI: fix: List View now begins at the beginning of the day of the date/time passed in	19:34
CIA-21	WebGUI: removed a spurious warning	19:34
+perlDreamer	since you can't ship Donations	19:34
+perlDreamer	and I suspect they aren't taxable, either	19:34
+perlDreamer	but I can always write the tax table converter in the meantime	19:35
+perlDreamer	and I'm down 8 pounds so far :)	19:35
@rizen	they are taxable by default	19:36
@rizen	unless you say otherwise	19:36
@rizen	and you can make them shippable if you like	19:36
@rizen	regardless i guess i'll start working on tax ui and calculations	19:37
+perlDreamer	I'd have to hack the Donation asset to make them shippable.	19:38
+perlDreamer	and I was thinking that legally you couldn't tax a donation	19:39
@preaction	laws differ and change though	19:41
@rizen	pd i'm telling you that the donation asset is taxable	19:41
@rizen	i don't care whether it is locally legal or not	19:41
@rizen	i cannot make decisions about what someone may or may not use the donation asset	19:42
@rizen	maybe some people will use it for just straight payments	19:42
@rizen	let's say i sell something on ebay	19:42
@rizen	then i tell people go to my site and pay for what you bought	19:42
@rizen	they type in the amount	19:43
@rizen	and pay	19:43
+perlDreamer	maybe we should call it Payment, then, since Donations are a subset of that	19:44
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@rizen	feel free to go rename it	19:44
@rizen	i don't care enough about labels to worry about it	19:45
@rizen	besides it's more likely to be used as donations than payments	19:46
@rizen	that's my guess at least	19:46
@rizen	if we keep worrying about stuff that doesn't matter though we're not going to ever complete the system	19:47
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+perlDreamer	that's true, and worrying is one of my specialties	19:47
@rizen	man i'm dumb sometimes	19:52
@rizen	stupid little typos cause hours of grief	19:52
+perlDreamer	tax problems?	19:53
@rizen	cart item problems	19:54
@rizen	fixed now though, so i can move on to tax	19:54
@rizen	actually...	19:54
@rizen	which would you prefer to integrate into the cart...tax or shipping?	19:54
@rizen	i'll do the other	19:54
@rizen	oh wait	19:55
@rizen	nobody has done the address book stuff yet have they?	19:55
@rizen	i have to do that before we can integrate either	19:55
@rizen	cuz you can't calculate either without an address	19:55
CIA-21	WebGUI: jt * r5686 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Shop/CartItem.pm: stupid typo that i should kick myself in the nutz for	19:56
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@rizen	ooh that brings up an interesting consequence that i hadn't thought of before	20:00
@rizen	the user isn't logged in yet, how can they choose from an address book	20:01
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+perlDreamer	In the past we've forced them to be logged in to use the commerce	20:28
+perlDreamer	past = Commerce vs Shop	20:29
@rizen	yeah, i think i've got it figured out	20:29
@rizen	i'm going to attach their address book to a session and then when they log in, convert it to a user	20:30
@rizen	and if they already have an address book after logging in, i'll merge the two	20:30
@rizen	cuz i don't want people to have to log in until they can see the final bill of sale	20:30
@rizen	which is the shopping cart configured with shipping, tax, and coupons	20:30
+perlDreamer	which requires the addressbook	20:31
@rizen	yup...so that's why i'm going to do the conversion thing	20:31
@rizen	might have to put a note on the address book page of "if you were logged in, you could see your existing address book	20:31
@rizen	or something like that	20:31
+perlDreamer	yeah	20:31
+perlDreamer	most of the carts that I use recommend logging in before checkout	20:32
+perlDreamer	or at the start of checkout	20:32
@rizen	yeah, we're going to force them to be logged in before checkout	20:33
@rizen	this is just for the cart screen	20:33
@rizen	or you could tell him to behave or i'll knee cap him, pull out his fingernails with a rusty pair of pliers, and finish up by cutting his vocal cords with a box cutter.	20:34
+perlDreamer	worse, make him replumb your house	20:34
@rizen	ooh, that would be worse	20:35
+perlDreamer	Disney is supporting OSCON this year	20:35
@rizen	oh, then i better be on my best behavior	20:35
@rizen	so i can get cool disney swag and contracts	20:35
+perlDreamer	yeah	20:36
+perlDreamer	Disney.com runs on WRE	20:36
@rizen	i'm officially faxing in my booth registration today	20:36
+perlDreamer	that's a headline	20:36
vayde	rizen, do you remember off the top of your head the method for finding which Apache2 package a given method is in?	20:48
+perlDreamer	google?	20:48
vayde	there's a simple package somewhere in the api	20:48
vayde	you can do it from the command line	20:48
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@rizen	never knew there was one	20:50
@rizen	i just search the docs over at perl.apache.org	20:50
vayde	when I find it again, I'll post back	20:50
@rizen	and that tells me	20:50
vayde	http://perl.apache.org/docs/2.0/api/ModPerl/MethodLookup.html#Command_Line_Lookups	20:54
vayde	there it is	20:54
+perlDreamer	cool! thanks, vayde	20:57
vayde	anytime I can give back	20:57
vayde	oh btw rizen, thanks for making me prepare that WUC seminar on the wG handler that I never gave.	20:59
vayde	there's a bunch of peeps here that think perl cgi scripting == ModPerl::Registry scripts	20:59
vayde	they're seriously being schooled	21:00
wgGuest57	hello	21:09
wgGuest57	if i want that i a user can change the color of a specific section in my site, how could i do that?	21:11
@preaction	put your CSS in a snippet. put a User Profile Field that allows them to pick a color. Put a macro in that CSS Snippet that pulls the profile field's value and puts it in the CSS.	21:24
@preaction	the ^User("profilefield"); macro does that	21:24
@preaction	and i could swear i answered this question yesterday	21:24
@preaction	do we have logs still?	21:24
+perlDreamer	yes	21:24
@preaction	you think xdanger would object if i put them in the /topic?	21:25
+perlDreamer	I don't know	21:25
wgGuest57	preaction, i will create a profile field to show all the name colors that i want to show	21:28
wgGuest57	the field could be a selected box	21:29
@preaction	yes	21:29
@rizen	vayde: glad to hear it	21:29
ckotil	Is it possible to grant admin access by IP address?	21:31
@preaction	settings > adminIp i think	21:31
@preaction	under Misc maybe?	21:32
ckotil	im thinkng about a dead link crawler that would be able to crawl protected content	21:32
@preaction	should work. dunno how that setting works	21:43
cap10morgan_	i'm doing some testing in 7.5.4 (using prove), but i'm not seeing the errorHandler output. shouldn't that go to stdout when testing?	21:57
@rizen	no	21:58
@rizen	that gets hidden	21:58
@rizen	either do perl test.t	21:58
@rizen	or prove -v test.t	21:58
@rizen	i think it's -v	21:58
@rizen	prove pretty much hides everything by default	21:58
cap10morgan_	yeah, i'm doing prove -v	21:58
@rizen	try just perl test.t and see if you get a better result	21:59
cap10morgan_	nope, still not seeing it	21:59
@rizen	did you try triple clicking? i hear that works. =	21:59
@rizen	=)	21:59
cap10morgan_	hehe	22:00
cap10morgan_	i'm trying to see output from something that's being triggered in the END block, which is just $versionTag->rollback();	22:01
cap10morgan_	maybe that's why	22:01
cap10morgan_	oh, nope, it should be triggering some before that too	22:02
cap10morgan_	hmm...	22:02
@rizen	perlDreamer who is not here at the moment is the resident expert on testing	22:02
@rizen	he could probably tell you in two heartbeats	22:02
cap10morgan_	oh, ok	22:02
cap10morgan_	i'll ask him then	22:03
@rizen	he should be back in 30 minutes or so	22:03
cap10morgan_	cool	22:03
@preaction	rizen, can we add Module::Pluggable to WebGUI? WebGUI::International::getLanguages() only searches /data/WebGUI/lib, not all the directories in @INC	22:54
@rizen	i'd have to research module::pluggable to understand what it does and what it's prereqs are	22:55
@rizen	it's not something i can say yes or no to right at this momeent	22:56
@preaction	k	22:56
@preaction	it's a client site, so i'll write the code and put it into their local/ directory, so if/when you say "yes" we have something to implement right away	22:57
@rizen	preaction does Module::Pluggable do basically what webgui pluggable does only a bit better?	23:12
@rizen	cuz reading it, that's what it looks like	23:13
@preaction	no, Module::Pluggable returns a list of class names based on the given parameters	23:13
@rizen	but it can also instanciate them it says	23:14
@preaction	yeah, it's the list thing that i need	23:14
@preaction	WebGUI::Pluggable is optimal for working with known class names. Module::Pluggable does unknown class names	23:15
@preaction	when we've been doing raw directory parsing ourselves	23:16
@rizen	i'm not getting how this module works by reading pod, so until i have a chance to play with it i'm going to have to say no for it going into core	23:16
@preaction	it takes the directories in @INC and searches them for modules under a namespace you specify, say WebGUI::i18n	23:16
@rizen	it seems to me like it overlaps with WebGUI::Pluggable, and if that's the case then we should either modify WebGUI::Pluggable, or replace WebGUI::Pluggable	23:16
@rizen	yeah, but that's not ALL it does	23:17
@rizen	i know what you want out of it	23:17
@rizen	and understand that	23:17
@rizen	but i want to understand all that it does	23:17
@rizen	if i can finish what i'm working on before vrby gets here then i'll spend some time playing with it this afternoon	23:19
@preaction	no rush. i can do things without needing it to be in the core by 7.5.5	23:20
@preaction	or... it might be better to roll-our-own. Module::Pluggable is severely limited... i just want WebGUI::i18n::* not WebGUI::i18n::::, and I'm not seeing any way to do it	23:33
@preaction	just a simple: getClasses( [ directories or class path ], { options like recurse => } );	23:34
@preaction	well. not so simple i guess	23:34
@rizen	adding our own stuff to WebGUI::Pluggable if no cpan module does what you need	23:35
@preaction	i'll end up doing it, but this is low-priority now that it's going to take that long	23:38
wgGuest57	hello	23:43
wgGuest57	i am going to create a group in a macro. I have been checking the api and i found the next sentence to create a group $g = WebGUI::Group->new($session,3); or $g = WebGUI::Group->new($session,"new");	23:45
+perlDreamer	cap10morgan_: In WebGUI::Test.pm, it mocks the logging object so that you can test error logging without parsing the WebGUI.log file	23:47
+perlDreamer	it needs to be made into a switch, instead of being unconditional	23:48
+perlDreamer	that's where your error output is going	23:48
wgGuest57	i am testing but i am obtaining the next error WebGUI::Group->new called with a non-existant groupId:[User_prueba]	23:48
cap10morgan_	perlDreamer: ok, but what do i have to do actually see it? (I'm a Perl testing n00b)	23:48
+perlDreamer	check these variables	23:49
+perlDreamer	$WebGUI::Test::logger_warns	23:49
+perlDreamer	_debug	23:49
+perlDreamer	_info	23:49
+perlDreamer	_error	23:49
cap10morgan_	oh, ok. so it basically treats those vars as output buffers	23:49
+perlDreamer	right	23:49
cap10morgan_	for the different logging levels	23:49
cap10morgan_	ok	23:49
cap10morgan_	thanks	23:49
+perlDreamer	actually, I've been meaning to fix that for a while	23:49
+perlDreamer	hold on a sec, and I'll commit a fix	23:50
cap10morgan_	sweet, thanks	23:50
* cap10morgan_ realizes he'd better start using SVN HEAD for testing		23:50
+perlDreamer	yes :)	23:50
-!- cap10morgan_ is now known as cap10morgan		23:50
-!- wgGuest57 [n=wgGuest5@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		23:53
-!- wgGuest79 [n=wgGuest7@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has joined #webgui		23:53
wgGuest79	hello	23:54
@rizen	pd do you think we should allow for multiple line addresses, or just make people type the whole address on one line?	23:54
@rizen	i like address on one line	23:54
@rizen	Radix_ can you tell me whether Oz would have any implications on address and line numbers?	23:54
+perlDreamer	I think people are used to seeing their addresses on multiple lines	23:54
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@231.sub-75-204-20.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		23:54
@rizen	nuba you too	23:55
@rizen	and xdanger too	23:55
+perlDreamer	but with form completion in the browsers nowadays, I can't see any other reason to prefer one over the other.	23:55
cap10morgan	rizen: I thought read / heard somewhere that you were using something that lets you maintain your own separate svn repo of WebGUI but resync it w/ upstream from time to time (or maybe it's built in to the WDK). Am I smoking crack?	23:55
+perlDreamer	that would be either git or SVK	23:55
+perlDreamer	they have SVN plugins	23:55
@rizen	Haarg is doing that	23:55
@rizen	i'm not	23:56
cap10morgan	ah, ok	23:56
wgGuest79	perlDreamer, can you help me?	23:56
+perlDreamer	what is your question, wgGuest79?	23:56
cap10morgan	Haarg: what are you using to keep a local svn repo of WebGUI?	23:56
cap10morgan	perlDreamer: ok, i'll look into those	23:56
+perlDreamer	Haarg uses git	23:57
@Haarg	for dev, yes	23:57
+perlDreamer	He tried SVK and had a bad experience with it	23:57
wgGuest79	i am using the next sentence to create a group in a macro $g = WebGUI::Group->new($session,3); or $g = WebGUI::Group->new($session,"new");	23:57
+perlDreamer	create a brand new group, or access an existing group?	23:57
wgGuest79	create a brand new group	23:57
+perlDreamer	then you need to use the create method, not new	23:58
wgGuest79	new is to access an existing group?	23:58
+perlDreamer	yes	23:59
+perlDreamer	new => pull an existing group	23:59
+perlDreamer	create => make a new group	23:59
--- Log closed Sat Mar 01 00:00:00 2008

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