WebGUI irc logs from: 2008-02.log

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perlmonkey2Oh man....this sucks.  I deleted a webgui page that another webgui page was grabbing an RSS feed from.  Now a few hours later the site is crashed and won't come back up.  Mysql won't restart and modproxy.error.log is saying error reading status line from remote server 01:31
perlmonkey2Where does the wre write the mysql error logs to, I don't see them in var/log01:32
perlmonkey2What does this mean when I try to manually start mysql? Starting MySQL ERROR! Couldn't find MySQL manager or server01:36
@preactionare you running the right environment?01:39
perlmonkey2network issues01:46
* perlmonkey2 really really really wishes his client would have went with PB hosting.01:46
perlmonkey2although if you could point me at anything that could help me with WRE backups, I'd appreciate it.  The wiki search didn't return anything.01:47
@preactionyou mean automatic backups using wre/sbin/backup.pl?01:50
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perlmonkey2preaction: yes.  The backup users doesn't have permissions, and I can't connect to the wre mysql with the mysql CL client.02:27
@preactionso you have a backup user, and in that user's cron you source in the WRE's environment and then run backup.pl?02:29
@preactioni think you have to do it as root probably02:29
perlmonkey2preaction: I am running the wre sbin/backup.pl as root, but the error is that the backup mysql user doesn't have permissions.02:30
perlmonkey2Couldn't connect to MySQL because DBI connect('test;host=localhost;port=3306','backup',...) failed: Access denied for user 'backup'@'localhost' (using password: YES) at /data/wre/lib/WRE/Mysql.pm line 9302:30
perlmonkey2 at ./backup.pl line 7902:30
@preactionoh. you might need to set up that user, or use the root user02:30
perlmonkey2I would, but I can not connect to the mysql server with the mysql client.02:30
perlmonkey2Is there something I need to set up to connect to the wre instance of mysqld?02:31
@preactionnot that i know of02:31
@preactionare you getting a permissions denied using the cli client too?02:31
perlmonkey2no, just02:32
perlmonkey2[root@li6-7 etc]# mysql -uwebgui -p02:32
perlmonkey2Enter password: 02:32
perlmonkey2ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock' (2)02:32
@preactionyou aren't using the right environment02:32
perlmonkey2dumb, stupid perlmonkey202:33
perlmonkey2I beg forgiveness for wasting your time.02:33
@preactioni need someone who isn't a mac fanboi to give an opinion on a Mac Mini02:33
@preactionit's about $1050 to get the one I want, tricked out with power, but i could probably fix my newly-broken computer for a tenth of that02:34
@preactioni'm just tired of dealing with computer hardware02:34
perlmonkey2A Mac Mini sounds cool02:35
@preaction1) Web / Internet 2) DVD / Music 3) Emulators 4) BitTorrent. the only problem is 4 requires massive amounts of hard disk space, which the mini don't have02:35
@preactionthose are the 4 things my tv computer currently does02:35
@preactioni think i should move number 4 out to another, dedicated system02:35
@preactioni've got a computer that's been sitting dead for at least 4 months now, i could resurrect it with the parts from the TV computer02:36
perlmonkey2the mac mini's drive not only is small but it is slow.... at 5400 rpm laptop drive.02:37
@preactioni don't think the mini's designed with high performance in mind02:38
@preactioni think it's single-task oriented02:38
@preactiona mac pro would do the job, but those are even more expensive02:38
perlmonkey2I have a Q6600 4 GB DDR667, 350GB 7200 SATA2, with case for $700.02:40
@preactionyou're selling?02:40
perlmonkey2That's what I built it for02:41
perlmonkey2It is my main desktop/workstation02:41
@preactioni think i built my TV computer for about that. with twice the storage and half the RAM. $150 on the GFX card itself.02:41
perlmonkey2and that was like last August...things should be cheaper.02:41
@preactionthat's just it though, building computers is boring. maintaining hardware is boring02:42
@preactionand frustrating02:42
perlmonkey2I agree02:42
@preactionjust out of the blue the TV computer (selene) starts a spontaneous reboot cycle02:42
perlmonkey2but a lot cheaper02:42
@preactioni'm willing to bet it's due to the cooling system dying02:42
perlmonkey2btb, where does the wre write the mysql logs too.  It still wont' start up.02:42
@preactionor the power supply dying02:42
perlmonkey2power is likely02:43
@preactionshould be /data/wre/var/mysqldata/something.err02:43
perlmonkey2cooling is easy to check....does it reboot right afte ryou start it, or after it is working.02:43
@preactionafter it's working for a while, but hasn't finished the initial load. OS gets booted, XP starts and gets into explorer, then before it's done loading components and drivers and such, it bombs02:44
@preactionthen it either gets a little less further next time, or just sits there spinning02:44
perlmonkey2sounds like power02:44
@preactionand the case i have under the TV has a special, tiny power supply... gotta find one of thems...02:45
perlmonkey2Hmm, ./wreservice.pl --start mysql 02:45
perlmonkey2Start MySQL:          FAILED!02:45
perlmonkey2Yet nothing in the mysql.err logs02:45
@preactionnot that, using mysqld_safe or something02:45
@preactionthat wreservice.pl script hides a lot of things02:46
perlmonkey2k, I'll try it directly02:46
@preactionmight be in a log though, /data/wre/var/logs somewhere perhaps02:46
perlmonkey2No, nothing in the logs.02:47
perlmonkey2I'm running tail -f var/logs/* 02:47
perlmonkey2[root@li6-7 mysql]# ./mysql.server start02:47
perlmonkey2Starting MySQL ERROR! Couldn't find MySQL manager or server02:47
@preactionmysql.server is a shell script, right?02:50
perlmonkey2I think it is the actual mysql binary...I'll open it02:50
perlmonkey2oh, sheel02:50
perlmonkey2wife is sick...brb02:51
perlmonkey2I bet this is because I changed the company name .... It went from working fine to a few hours later, not working and no one did anything.03:01
@preactiondoesn't sound like that would screw things up03:02
perlmonkey2But mysql keeps failing to start and there is nothing in the logs03:03
@preactionit says something like "Couldn't find MySQL manager or server", which means that the shell script doesn't know where to look for the mysqld03:04
perlmonkey2but I've ran the setenv script03:04
perlmonkey2I can see the LD env params 03:05
@preactionright, i had this happen to me once, and i don't remember how i fixed it or what was actually wrong03:05
perlmonkey2wow, this really sucks...I've got a client wondering what happened to his site.03:05
@preactioni just remember i looked in that script and echoed out the paths the script got03:06
perlmonkey2I guess I'll tell him he shoul dhave wnet with PB03:06
perlmonkey2I'll try that.03:06
@preactiondid you try running /data/wre/prereqs/bin/mysqld_safe ?03:06
perlmonkey2not yet03:09
perlmonkey2something is horribly wrong.....03:09
@preactionthat's the shell script i was talking about, not the other thing03:09
perlmonkey2okay, finally got the error output: 080210 20:12:42 [ERROR] /data/wre/prereqs/libexec/mysqld: Can't create/write to file '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.pid' (Errcode: 2)03:13
perlmonkey2080210 20:12:42 [ERROR] Can't start server: can't create PID file: No such file or directory03:13
perlmonkey2should I create a mysqld directory in /var/run?03:13
perlmonkey2what has happened?03:14
@preactionit shouldn't be trying to do that. you can specify on the command-line what you want the pid file to be i think. somewhere in that shell script is the key03:14
perlmonkey2But hwo would the my.cnf file be changed?03:15
@preactionit wasn't. that script can override the my.cnf file03:15
perlmonkey2wait a second.....there shouldn't be a my.cnf in /etc/03:15
@preactionno, there shouldn't03:16
@preactionit shouldn't be looking for one either. that script shouldn't have any reference to it03:16
perlmonkey2looks like my clients two bit hoster does one of those "reimages" where htey "auto-fix" anything tha tisn't normal.03:16
perlmonkey2removing the /etc/my.cnf fixed it.03:17
perlmonkey2the wre install isntructions say to copy it to .old03:17
perlmonkey2wow.....maybe it isn't too late for me to get them to move to PB.03:17
@preactionwe have VPS at reasonable rates03:18
perlmonkey2the client didn't go with PB because of disk.03:22
perlmonkey2But if their two bit hoster can't stop playing with the os config files, it wont' matter how much disk they have.03:23
perlmonkey2well this is no good, the root password for mysql isn't working, now that i can connect.03:34
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perlmonkey2I can reset it, but how did it get changed :D03:36
Samus_Arandoes anyone know why WebGUI might be running in ultra slow motion ?  it is taking an average 5 to 10 seconds to load a page, on an unloaded server with tons of RAM03:37
Samus_Aranthe spectre perl daemon keeps on ending up with hundreds of MiB of RAM used.  and wait state is the main thing that seems to be shooting up in top03:37
Samus_Aranthe apache processes are using little CPU themselves03:37
Samus_AranI am using the latest stable release.  I haven't used WebGUI since version 4.x, which was lightning fast even on an old system, so I'm not too sure what's going on now03:38
perlmonkey2hey, I'm having that exact same problem03:39
perlmonkey2 Does the wre phone home and autoupdate?03:39
Samus_Aranperlmonkey2: hm03:39
Samus_Aranwhat is a wre ?03:40
perlmonkey2webgui runtime environment03:41
Samus_Aranah.  I don't know much about the WRE, as I installed manually.  the server has other web sites and databases on it, so I can't use the WRE03:41
+Radix-wrkSamus_Aran: I'd highly recommend the wre if you want a fast/optimised webgui setup these days03:41
Samus_AranRadix-wrk: we have only one server, and it already runs database and web content.  not sure how the WRE could be usable in such a situation03:42
perlmonkey2Radix-wrk: I'm on my second server meltdown using the wre....never had any problems with source.03:43
Samus_Arandoes anyone know if this ultra sluggy issue is just with the most recent release, or if it has been a problem for people for a while ?  (or is it just me)03:43
+Radix-wrkFair enough - though you may want to look at some of the settings for the wre and how it's set up to get an idea of how to optimise things03:43
perlmonkey2I can't log into the database with root, even though I reset the password03:43
perlmonkey2or at least think I did.03:43
Samus_AranI followed the guide more or less exactly.  it is up and running without visible errors03:43
Samus_Aranbut the spectre script is using huge amounts of RAM, which doesn't seem normal to me.  and there is apparently heavy disk writing, as the IO wait time goes up to 60% for many seconds after I do something on the WebGUI site03:44
Samus_AranI don't mind up or downgrading if it might help03:45
@preactionwhat is spectre spinning its gears on?03:45
Samus_AranI have no content yet ... but it took me ten minutes just to delete a couple items off the menus.  =/03:45
@preactionif you turn off spectre, does the site respond faster?03:45
Samus_Aranpreaction: I thought spectre was required for it to run.  or is it only required for versioning ?  I will most likely not be using versioning on this site, just server backups03:46
Samus_AranI will try closing spectre03:46
@preactionspectre is required for executing workflows and scheduled tasks (which spawn workflows). it's the offline execution engine. 03:46
@preactionthings will work without it, but some things won't happen unless it's running03:46
@preactionlike sending mail03:46
@preactionor committing version tags03:46
Samus_Aranwell, the contact form needs to e-mail the message03:47
Samus_Arandoes that use spectre ?03:47
@preactioneven if you're not using versioning, you may need spectre (if your default workflow is not "Commit Content Immediately")03:47
@preactionwe're trying to narrow down the list of possible causes here03:47
@preactionso we turn off spectre, and then try loading pages03:47
@preactionwhat kind of system are you running this on? 1Ghz / 1Gig are about the minimum i would attempt to run WebGUI on these days03:48
Samus_AranI did "perl spectre.pl --shutdown" and continued to use the web pages.  it is still the same slow speed03:48
Samus_Arandual 1.6Ghz, 1GiB RAM03:48
@preactionokay. how's vmstat look? are we swapping in and/or out?03:49
Samus_Aranpreaction: that is a pretty sad minimum requirement.  sigh.  I guess I should have researched before trying WebGUI 7.x03:49
@preactionwhy? webgui is huge. and in order to get quicker responses it does a lot of caching, both on-disk and in-memory03:50
Samus_Aranthe Linux kernel caches things very well, caching by the app will only end up swapping to disk03:50
@preactionit caches mysql queries? perl object instanciation?03:51
Samus_Aranother PHP code that uses databases on this system is instantaneous.  page loads in under .1 second03:51
Samus_Aranminimum 5 seconds on WeGUI currently, with an average of around 8 seconds03:51
Samus_Aransometimes 20-3003:52
@preactionyou can't compare "other PHP code that uses databases" to "WebGUI". they're entirely different beasts03:52
Samus_Aranalso spectre is often using up 8-10% CPU when no page requests are going on, that seems quite excessive for a background monitoring daemon03:52
@preactionWebGUI has an average of 30 db reads and 1 write per request03:53
@preactionit's not a monitoring daemon, it's an offline execution daemon03:53
Samus_Aranso long as the database is left open, that would still be nearly instantaneous on this system03:53
@preactionit runs things that would cause browsers to time-out or that users don't want to see running03:53
@preactionwhich is why we're troubleshooting, no?03:53
Samus_Aranwhich way do you want me to check the vmstat you asked about ?03:54
@preactioni just wanted to see if your box was swapping. that could cause significant delays and IO wait. are you running webgui in its own apache or alongside mod_php and others?03:55
@preactionyou're using prefork right?03:55
Samus_Aranpreaction: (regarding the multiple database queries, one of the other sites here sometimes has dozens of database queries per hit as well, always under half a second)03:56
Samus_Aranapache you mean ?03:56
Samus_Aranapache2-mpm-prefork is already the newest version.03:57
Samus_Aranthat's what is on there now03:57
Samus_Aranthe server is running Ubuntu 6.06 LTS03:57
@preactionokay. now, you're using PerlRequire /data/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl right?03:57
@preactionyou're also using Apache2::Reload to make sure the apache processes don't get out of control, right?03:59
Samus_Aranhttp://rafb.net/p/iJzHcV35.txt  << this is the virtual host03:59
Samus_Aran(I replaced the domain name with "foo")03:59
@preactioner.. sizelimit, right. not reload04:00
Samus_Aranhow would I check about Apache2::Reload ?04:00
@preactiondon't worry about it, devs would use it04:00
@preactionbad for production servers04:00
@preactionuhm... WebguiRoot is /data/WebGUI but PerlRequire /var/www/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl ? where is WebGUI really?04:01
@preactionhow many megs are these apache processes taking up? shouldn't be any more than 80 or 90M04:01
Samus_AranWebGUI is installed to /var/www/WebGUI.  for each place the documentation mentioned a path in a file, I updated it accordingly04:01
Samus_AranApache2::Reload is up to date (0.09).04:02
Samus_Aran(from cpan04:02
@preactionso why PerlSetVar WebguiRoot /data/WebGUI ?04:02
Samus_Aranhttp://rafb.net/p/mh7NHq38.txt  << apache processes04:03
Samus_Aranit is ?  I redid the virtual host at some point after I messed things up, I may have missed it the second time.  *goes to look*04:03
Samus_Aranhow could it run without that being set ?04:04
Samus_AranI have adjusted it now, restarting apache04:04
Samus_AranI have noticed since restarting Apache that the initial apache process, the one run by root that I assume spawns the others, is sitting there using CPU (3-10% average)04:11
Samus_Aranno change in page loading/editing speed04:12
@preactioni would say the problem is probably that since WebGUI isn't the only thing being done by that apache, it doesn't keep a lot of the WebGUI stuff in-memory (frees space to be used to load other scripts)04:14
@preactionis this a production box? could you test with only webgui vhost on?04:14
@preactioni run the WRE, so i got no clue. but you could run the WRE's mod_perl instance behind your own apache running mod_proxy (much like the WRE does)04:14
Samus_Aranit is a production box, however the organisation is not large, and it only really needs to be functional during weekdays04:15
+Radix-wrkI use the wre, but have a separate apache install for php websites and use the wre's modproxy to do the work04:15
Samus_Aranso I could try something else right now04:15
+Radix-wrkso mod_perl for webgui is on port 81, mod_php on port 82, etc04:16
+Radix-wrkdoes the webgui admin guide have much info on tuning apache/mod_proxy?04:17
@apeironRadix-wrk, So the mod_proxy server receives all the requests on 80, and then forwards internally to 81 or 82, etc., es?04:17
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Samus_AranI am willing to try the WRE in that way.  didn't know it could co-exist with a regular Apache/PHP/Perl/MySQL setup04:19
@preactionyeah. the WRE is two apache instances: one mod_proxy, one mod_perl. i've had a few people forgoe the mod04:20
@preaction_proxy one and just run the mod_perl one04:20
+Radix-wrkthe biggest issue is more with mysql - as it won't co-exist with another instance04:24
+Radix-wrkI switched distro's mysql databases over to the wre one myself, but you can do it the other way if you want too04:25
+Radix-wrkthat's the only hassle with co-existance really though04:25
@preactionyeah, shouldn't matter if you do or do not use the wre's mysql really04:26
@preactionhell. you might be able to get by just by stealing the modperl.conf file out of the WRE and running it with your own apache04:26
@preactionwhether it's the WRE's apache or not shouldn't matter. just give webgui its own dedicated bit of apache + memory (2 processes perhaps)04:27
+Radix-wrkI run my wre on a virtual server with 256mb ram myself - seems to run fine04:28
@preactionhow much cache does mysql have? 300M+?04:28
+Radix-wrkI did tweak the mysql settings down a bit to compensate, but juga.biz is still pretty fast04:28
+Radix-wrkI forget what I actually changed tho :)04:29
+Radix-wrkhttp://webgui.pastebin.com/m715140a5 - that's a copy of my my.cnf file with 256MB ram04:33
Samus_Aranokay.  I was away a bit, back now.04:49
Samus_Aranpreaction: how do you think I should proceed at this point ?04:49
Samus_Arantrying a manual install of the latest beta or using the WRE with my existing setup, or ?04:49
@preactionsee how well webgui runs when it's the only thing on the apache server, probably by making a seperate apache instance that only runs WebGUI (on a different port)04:50
Samus_AranI don't mind turning off Apache/MySQL/etc. for testing04:50
@preactionwell, it's not spectre, you could probably turn that back on04:51
Samus_Aranwill try the WRE in /data/WebGUI then04:51
@preactionwait, what?04:51
Samus_Aranmm ?04:52
Samus_AranI was going to turn off MySQL and Apache and try the WRE by itself, to check perormance04:52
Samus_Aranis wre-0.8.1-ubuntu-6_server-ia32.tar.gz the correct file ?04:54
@preactionprobably. are you running a 32-bit cpu?04:54
Samus_Aranthe install notes have conflicting information about the directory structure underneath /data05:04
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Samus_Aranthe non-symlink instructions will end up with /data/wre and the symlink instructions will give you /data/wre/wre05:04
Samus_AranI assume with only one "wre" is the correct structure05:04
Samus_Aran"Create your DNS entries (or add entries to /etc/hosts) for the sites you will be using, including the AWStats site."05:06
Samus_Aranwhat is AWStats ?05:06
@preactionit's an apache log analyzer05:07
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Samus_Aranpreaction: I was away, back to trying out the WRE now.  I thought it came with its own MySQL ?  it is saying when going through the web based installer that it couldn't connect to a MySQL server06:58
Samus_AranCouldn't connect to MySQL because DBI connect('test;host=localhost;port=3306','root',...) failed06:59
Samus_AranI shut down MySQL and Apache, and renamed the my.conf file, prior to running this installer06:59
@preactionit does, did you start it? are you running the right environment? before working with the WRE stuff you need to source in ". /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment.sh"06:59
@preaction(the space between the . and / is important)07:00
Samus_AranI did "source setenvironment.sh" prior to starting the web installer07:01
Samus_Aranwhich should be the same as .07:02
@preactionwhat does wreservice.pl --ping mysql say?07:02
Samus_AranI have both /data/WebGUI and /data/wre, is that correct ?07:04
Samus_AranPing MySQL:           FAILED!07:05
@preactionthat means the wre's mysql isn't up or can't be reached07:06
Samus_AranI would like to find out why it can't start it07:07
@preactiontry doing "mysqld_safe"07:07
Samus_AranI didn't change any of the MySQL settings other than the passwort07:07
Samus_Aranmysqld_safe from where ?07:07
Samus_Arannevermind, it's in the path after the source environment thing07:09
Samus_Arananyhow, I went back to the other screen, and it has error messages about setting up MySQL.  looking over them now07:09
Samus_AranERROR: 1  Can't create/write to file '/data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql/db.MYI' (Errcode: 13)07:10
Samus_Aran080210 20:57:49 [ERROR] Aborting                                                                      07:10
Samus_Arannot sure why it couldn't create it07:10
Samus_AranI ran the script as root07:10
@preactiondoes mysqldata/mysql exist?07:11
Samus_Arandrwx------ 2 webgui root 4.0K 2008-02-10 20:57 /data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql/07:11
Samus_Aranodd permissions, root is the group, but it should ignore the "no write permission"07:12
Samus_Aranany suggestions ?07:14
Samus_AranWhen I run mysqld_safe I get the following:07:20
Samus_AranStarting mysqld daemon with databases from /data/wre/var/mysqldata07:20
Samus_AranSTOPPING server from pid file /data/wre/var/mysqldata/my_hostname.pid07:20
Samus_Aran080210 21:19:37  mysqld ended07:20
Samus_Aranand there are no MySQL processes running07:20
Samus_AranI found an error log file with this in it: [ERROR] Can't start server : Bind on unix socket: Permission denied07:21
@preactioncheck in /var/mysqldata/*.err07:21
Samus_Aran[ERROR] Do you already have another mysqld server running on socket: /data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql.sock ?07:22
Samus_Aranthat's from that error file you mentioned07:22
Samus_Aranthere are no processes with "my" in it07:22
Samus_Aranin the command name, I mean07:22
Samus_AranI didn't get an answer from you above about the structure of /data.  is there supposed to be /data/wre or /data/wre/wre ?  and should there be a /data/WebGUI directory as well ?07:24
Samus_Aranthe documentation has errors in it regarding this07:24
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@preaction_it should be /data/wre and /data/WebGUI. no /data/wre/wre07:28
Samus_Aranis there some way to track down why it thinks that it has already started its MySQL server ?07:30
Samus_Aranlooked through the running processes and see the previous spectre.pl still running.  closed that now07:32
Samus_Aranmade no difference07:33
Samus_AranI just realised that /data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql.sock does not exist07:35
Samus_Aranit's not that something else is using it, it was just never created07:35
* Samus_Aran sighs07:37
Samus_Aranstarting over07:39
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Samus_Aranthe web installer asks for a MySQL username and password.  I changed the password, and then it doesn't work.  it works with the default password07:45
Samus_Aranwhy does it give you the option to change the password if it is not going to be using it ?07:46
@preaction_the error that happened about starting the server probably caused the wreconsole to not update the password07:46
@preaction_it has to be able to start the mysqld in order to change the password07:46
Samus_Aranbut the only change I made was this time not changing the password -- and then MySQL started fine07:47
@preaction_mysql doesn't need a password to start07:47
@preaction_who knows what happened, the point is you could change that password now if you wanted to07:48
Samus_Aranthere is nowhere in the web interface that I see to change the password, only the setup07:52
Samus_Aranwhen I click on Spectre in the list of services tab, it says starting, and then goes back to a [Start] button07:55
Samus_Aranno errors07:55
Samus_Aranthe other services started07:55
Samus_Aransorry, there was an error, just couldn't see it, it was so small: "Spectre did not start successfully.07:56
Samus_Aran"to_json" is not exported by the JSON module                                                          07:56
Samus_AranCan't continue after import errors at ../lib/Spectre/Cron.pm line 2207:56
Samus_Aransigh.  I can't add a site using the web interface.  I don't know the MySQL password07:59
Samus_AranI thought it was qwe12307:59
Samus_Aran123qwe ...08:03
Samus_Arananyhow, the WRE's Spectre is broken08:08
Samus_Aranit has issues with its own Perl modules08:08
Samus_Aranassuming that the JSON thing is part of the WRE08:08
Samus_Aranwhen I try to connect to the new WebGUI site I get: Bad Gateway - The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.08:09
+Radix-wrkthe mysql password is specified when you first installed the wre08:13
Samus_AranI know, but it wouldn't let me change it, so I used the default, which I didn't remember08:13
Samus_Aranthis is an absolute nightmare to set up compared to WebGUI 4.x08:14
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+Radix-wrkagreed - though admittedly it's changed hugely since version 4 too08:14
Samus_Aranall of the UI changes I have seen thus far I find to be far worse08:14
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+Radix-wrkthat said.. I've had no problems installing a wre system out of the box within 10 minutes in the past08:14
Samus_Aranon the old versions it was clear to a new user where to go to get things done08:15
Samus_Arannow the menus are utterly confusing08:15
Samus_Aransomething as simple as adding a content item to a page is confusing08:15
+Radix-wrkit's pretty easy.. click new content on the left, and select what object you want08:15
Samus_Aranthe UI says it is adding a new page when you do that08:16
+Radix-wrkeverything is a "page" in webgui08:16
+Radix-wrkevery object has it's own url08:17
preaction__version 5 added the "asset" system, no?08:17
preaction__or was it 6.x series?08:17
preaction__there have been so many changes, Samus_Aran, you may as well treat it as an entirely different system08:17
Samus_AranI'm talking about a section on a page.  the things you drag around08:17
preaction__they are pages too08:18
preaction__they have urls08:18
Samus_Arana column or section08:18
preaction__you can go to just them08:18
Samus_Aranwell that is extremely messed up08:18
preaction__and that is an extremely obtuse opinion08:18
+Radix-wrkActually I tend to agree there to a certain extent.. I wish pages were the only thing that had urls08:18
+Radix-wrkbut that said, it's never really bothered me08:19
Samus_Aranit is entirely counter-intuitive08:19
preaction__only container assets?08:19
+Radix-wrkI just don't care what urls objects have, as long as my pages have the urls I want08:19
preaction__so message boards, page layouts, and wikis08:19
+Radix-wrkthey're the only ones that appear in navigation items anyway08:19
preaction__but how do you get to a wiki page then?08:19
preaction__that's ugly08:20
preaction__how do you get to a forum post? myMessageBoard?collab=id;thread=id;post=id?08:20
preaction__that's better than myMessageBoard/collab/thread/post?08:20
+Radix-wrkI think of pages, forums, etc as containers08:20
preaction__what if i think of a thread as a container? do i lose out?08:21
preaction__is a calendar a container or can their event be containers too?08:21
+Radix-wrkwell I find it all pretty confusing actually :)08:21
preaction__i agree it can be counter-intuitive, even backwards, but everything in the system has a URL, no matter what08:22
preaction__would you prefer a query string or something friendly?08:22
preaction__bonus: we don't use mod_rewrite to do it08:22
Samus_AranI am considering going back to 4.x.  It worked, was fast and did the things I needed it to do08:23
preaction__4.x even still works as a CGI, instead of mod_perl08:24
+Radix-wrkSamus_Aran: that's a shame - there's a lot to love in the new versions imho08:24
+Radix-wrkversion control for one08:25
+Radix-wrkdepends what you're after though I guess08:25
Samus_Aranversion control is another example of how confusing WebGUI 7.xi s08:30
Samus_Aran*7.x is08:30
Samus_AranI tried to use it and immediately the whole site was destroyed08:30
Samus_Arandidn't even have a template08:30
preaction__buy the content manager's guide perhaps?08:30
Samus_AranI shouldn't have to purchase a book to use an open source product.  WebGUI 4.x was easy to use with the help at the time08:31
preaction__Samus_Aran, then keep pushing on, eventually you'll understand it08:31
Samus_Aranand I would have to justify the book purchase and it would take at least a week08:31
preaction__you don't need to purchase the book, it just makes it easier08:31
Samus_AranI don't have a week to sit on my hands08:31
Samus_AranI would find a versioning system the same as a Wiki quite useful.  WebGUI seems to use some other strange system08:33
Samus_Aranplus there is no description of how to use it from the actual page.  I clicked on the first item in the list and it promptly destroyed the whole WebGUI install08:34
preaction__no, it didn't. unless you clicked a big red X 08:35
Samus_AranI believe it reverted to a pre-install state08:35
Samus_AranI was trying to reset some changes I had done, to see how it worked08:36
preaction__and i don't believe you. any deleting of a version tag or any content pops up a javascript alert box saying "Are you sure?"08:36
Samus_Aranbut it erased everything, including the template08:36
Samus_Aranthe site wasjust white after that08:36
Samus_Aran*was jsut08:36
preaction__so you had rollback version tag?08:36
preaction__the current one, the Autotag for Admin?08:36
Samus_Aranthere was one item in a list, I clicked on rollback, assuming it would rollback to the base-install time08:36
Samus_Aranor whatever the feature is that I thought was a rollback08:37
preaction__what list? what item? under the Version Tags icon of the Admin Console?08:37
Samus_AranI am not sure from my memory08:37
Samus_AranI can't even load the WRE version of WebGUI08:37
Samus_AranBad Gateway08:37
preaction__the white page was probably the URL you were on disappearing, since you deleted the content08:37
Samus_AranThe proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.08:37
Samus_Aranit still had a basic menu, but there was no longer any template08:38
preaction__means the proxied server isn't running. the proxy can't reach the server it's trying to reach08:38
preaction__so there was a menu on the left side with a list of a bunch of stuff, right?08:38
preaction__plus maybe a list in the larger area on the right perhaps?08:38
Samus_AranI am talking about clicking on something about versioning on the left administrator menu, then on the right page that loads, choosing the only version listed, then telling it to use that one08:39
Samus_Aranand it proceeding (after the JS warning) to erase everything08:39
Samus_Aranwhat sort of performance can be expected from a WebGUI install that is actually working properly ?08:40
Samus_Aranon WebGUI 4.x on a crappy old computer running Debian where I was testing it, it ran extremely fast with 8-10 users08:41
preaction__we run 50-60 webgui sites on 2x2.4Ghz / 4G servers running CentOS 508:41
preaction__we run servers with 30,000+ registered users on one of those boxes, dedicated08:41
Samus_Aranthis was back in 2002 or 2001 I think.  whenever 4.x was around08:41
preaction__load stays less than 0.5, response times for a 300kB page are around 10 seconds08:42
+Radix-wrkyou seen demo.plainblack.com?08:42
Samus_Aranare you saying you dedicate a dual 2.4Ghz system to 1 site ?  or 50-60 sites ?08:42
Samus_Aranyes, I have used the demo08:42
+Radix-wrk50-60 sites08:42
preaction__we've got one box with 80 sites, and that stays at about 2 load. we dont' monitor that one anymore (the owner was told of the consequences of having more than 70 sites)08:42
preaction__both. 1 site with 30,000+ registered users08:43
preaction__and 50-60 smaller sites08:43
Samus_Aran10 seconds response time for LAN access is ludicrous08:43
preaction__i'm talking internet08:43
preaction__i don't live in the datacenter08:43
preaction__i have DSL. 100kB/s when i'm not using it for other purposes08:44
Samus_AranI mean, we will be updating and using the site on a LAN.  300KiB in 10 seconds is only 30KiB/sec, which I assume you have way more bandwidth than that08:44
Samus_Aranso the bottleneck is CPU08:44
Samus_Aranor disk access08:44
preaction__if there was a CPU bottleneck, the load would be far higher than .508:44
Samus_Araneven our basic business DSL account gets use 60KiB/sec upstream08:44
Samus_Aran*gets us08:44
preaction__okay. we must be talking two different languages here08:45
Samus_Aranso why then does it take 10 seconds to load a page ?08:45
preaction__I... Me personally... do not live anywhere near the datacenter we use08:45
Samus_Arando you have broadband ?08:45
Samus_Aranif so, it should make no difference08:45
preaction__I... Me personally... at my home... have a crappy DSL connection that is being 75% used by bittorrent at all time.08:45
+Radix-wrkour webgui server is a 3GHz P4 with 1GB ram - that runs a website with about 9300 users (who access it rarely) and over 5200 assets and it's on our lan and I usually get a page in a second or two at most.08:46
preaction__i will load the site i am talking about right now and report on the time it takes08:46
+Radix-wrkthat's our website, intranet, extranet, users account server, all in one08:46
Samus_AranI would like to find out why my manual install of WebGUI was going in slow motion on an otherwise unloaded server08:47
Samus_Aranif you're saying it should now be that way08:47
Samus_Aranbut I would also like to know why spectre was using hundreds and hundreds of megs of RAM08:47
preaction__if you want support, plain black offers ad hoc login support at reasonable rates08:47
Samus_Aranand the apache threads were using almost 100MiB each08:47
preaction__i've explained the apache threads to you already: mod_perl, WebGUI, mod_php, etc... all take up memory08:48
preaction__the reason we use Apache2::SizeLimit is because mod_perl doesn't seem to like cleaning up after itself. apache also, because it kills its own children after so many connections / so much time08:48
preaction__Apache2::SizeLimit is just more efficient and more configurable about how the processes die08:49
Samus_Aranwhat is an empty WebGUI site doing that requires more than half a gig of RAM ?08:49
Samus_Aranmy fresh install was using around 650MiB RAM in total08:50
preaction__it's not half a gig. WebGUI before it forks (mpm_prefork) takes about 70M (that's apache process + perl code + memory cache)08:50
preaction__70M per process08:50
preaction__* 5 processes (apache's default StartServers)08:50
Samus_Aranand 350MiB for spectre08:50
preaction__spectre grows slowly, usually due to errors talking to WebGUI08:51
Samus_Aranit had only been running, idle, for 2.5 days08:51
Samus_AranI worked on it on Thursday08:52
Samus_Aranand then again now on Sunday08:52
Samus_Aranif it keeps growing, how does a hosted WebGUI server manage to not constantly run out of RAM ?08:52
Samus_Arancronjobs to kill and restart the service constantly ?08:53
+Radix-wrkspectre is using 20mb on my server and 58-68mb for each apache process08:53
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+Radix-wrkload average is 0.05 for me08:53
Samus_AranRadix-wrk: how long has spectre been running ?08:53
+Radix-wrkup 34 days08:54
preaction__if there are problems connecting to WebGUI, it slowly grows.08:54
+Radix-wrkthat's with a stock wre install that I compiled myself08:55
preaction__we restart it on the demo box because when demo sites are removed, it needs to be restarted08:55
+Radix-wrkthat's running on a via C7 1Ghz processor with 1GB ram - and is my home router/gateway/pc08:56
preaction__it's been more than 3 hours of you complaining about WebGUI. if you want real support, Plain Black offers it. if you follow the advice i've given you, others have given you, and the instructions, you can fix your problems.08:56
Samus_Aranthis is my WRE, by default without any modifications: 37080+504+34544+57988+57672+57668+57668+57668+57668+2248+2432+2328+2328+2328+2332+226408:56
Samus_Aranand no spectre, as it won't load08:57
Samus_Aran434720 KiB08:57
Samus_AranRSS column of PS, grepping for things from /data/08:57
Samus_Aranpreaction__: you stopped answering my questions about an hour ago08:58
Samus_Aranpreaction__: I don't think you owe anything to me, but don't say that I wasn't following08:58
Samus_AranI was trying my very best to try everything you said I should try08:58
Samus_Aranand your help is very much appreciated08:58
Samus_AranSpectre will not load for me with a stock WRE08:59
Samus_Aranit complains about JSON08:59
Samus_Aranand I can't connect to the WebGUI site I added, with the above proxy error08:59
+Radix-wrkthere's some stuff in gotchas.txt about JSON I seem to recall09:00
* Samus_Aran goes to look09:00
preaction__the 0.8.1 WRE needs updated JSON and Config::JSON. this will be fixed in WRE 0.8.209:00
+Radix-wrkstable version of webgui doesn't like newest version of JSON - and new 7.5.1 version fixes it or something09:00
preaction__no. latest stable (7.4.22) and latest beta (7.5.1) both need JSON 2.04 and Config::JSON 1.1.409:01
Samus_Aran"to_json" is not exported by the JSON module09:01
Samus_AranCan't continue after import errors at ../lib/Spectre/Cron.pm line 2209:01
Samus_Aranis the error09:01
+Radix-wrkrun testEnvironment.pl09:01
preaction__won't work. you need to force install Config::JSON09:02
Samus_AranConfig::JSON is up to date (1.1.4).09:02
Samus_Aranwhen I did the manual install, testEnvironment.pl found every module it checked, other than one which it would always say it didn't find, even though it was installed09:03
Samus_Aranthough I thought the WRE contained the complete Perl environment ?09:03
preaction__spectre is being run under the WRE? you're running testEnvironment.pl under the WRE's environment? what does echo $PATH say?09:03
Samus_AranI haven't run testEnvironment.pl from the WRE09:03
preaction__did you run cpan from the WRE's environment?09:04
Samus_Aranyou mean the all-in-one WRE is distributed broken ?09:04
Samus_Aranthat rather defeats the purpose of an all-in-one download with all the servers09:05
+Radix-wrkit just needs a few updated perl modules for the newer versions that've come out since it was released09:05
Samus_AranI am updating the modules using the testEnvironment.pl script.  hopefully that will place the modules in the correct perl09:07
preaction__it only will if you tell it to09:08
Samus_Aranwhat do you mean ?09:08
preaction__it will put the modules in the correct place for the perl that is running09:08
Samus_Aranthe perl that is running is whatever perl the testEnvironment.pl script launched09:09
+Radix-wrkyou need to use ". /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment"09:09
Samus_Aranwith the setenvironment.sh run first09:09
Samus_Aran*sourced, not run09:09
+Radix-wrkas long as 'which perl' comes up with the one in the /data/wre directory you're fine09:10
Samus_Aranit has already installed at least a dozen Perl modules09:13
Samus_Aranprereq's for the JSON update09:13
Samus_Aranhm, a lot more than a dozen.  maybe 40.  it's just whipping through them09:15
Samus_AranChecking for module Config::JSON: 1.1.1 is installed, but we need at least 1.1.2, do you want to upgrade it now? {y|n} [y]09:20
Samus_AranGoing to read /root/.cpan-webgui/Metadata09:21
Samus_AranConfig::JSON is up to date.09:21
Samus_Aranso if cpan doesn't have it, how do I get 1.1.2 as needed ?09:21
preaction__you want 1.1.4. cpan does have it. you need to force install it09:22
+Radix-wrkI think it might be a bug in 1.1.1 - it reports itself as 1.1.4 or something09:24
Samus_Aranokay, done09:24
Samus_Aranonly one not OK now is:09:25
Samus_AranChecking for module Graphics::Magick:             Not Installed, but it's optional anyway             09:25
Samus_AranI would like that to be installed, but it doesn't seem to have a cpan listing.  I installed it through Ubuntu09:25
preaction__you want image::magic, not graphics::magick09:25
Samus_AranI think it requires a full ImageMagick to be installed09:26
Samus_Aranimage::magic or magick ?09:26
Samus_AranImage::Magick is up to date.09:26
preaction__so you're fine09:26
Samus_Aranwhen I did the manual install, I got Graphics::Magick installed, so that the testEnvironment.pl script gave it an OK09:27
Samus_Aranare you saying the script is checking for something that is not used ?09:27
preaction__that's the "but it's optional anyway" part09:27
+Radix-wrkGraphics::Magick was added for FreeBSD I seem to recall.. which had problems with imagemagick09:27
Samus_AranI would like all features to be available, is what I mean09:28
preaction__yah, but apeiron got IM compiling under WRE for FreeBSD so we don't need GM anymore09:28
Samus_Arane.g. Aspell is also optional, but I installed it09:28
+Radix-wrkyou won't need it09:28
Samus_Aranokay, thank you09:28
preaction__it uses one or the other, not both. if you have IM, it uses that. otherwise it tries to use GM. if it doesn't find either, it dies09:28
Samus_Aranokay, everything seems to be working now.  Spectre started successfully09:29
Samus_AranI still get the other error when trying to access the domain, though:09:29
Samus_AranBad Gateway09:29
Samus_AranThe proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.09:29
preaction__as i said before: it means that the proxy server can't connect to the server it's supposed to be proxy for09:30
Samus_Aranisn't the server it is supposed to connect to the apache running in the WRE ?09:30
preaction__is the modperl server running?09:31
Samus_Aranwhich is running on the default ports during the install09:31
Samus_Araneverything is running now09:31
preaction__did you add any sites?09:31
Samus_AranMySQL, Apache Modperl, Apache Modproxy, Spectre, WRE Console09:31
Samus_AranI added one site09:31
preaction__and that hostname is resolvable? can you connect to the modperl server directly using its port?09:32
Samus_AranI am stopping all the servers now, and restarting them09:33
Samus_Aranyes, DNS is fine09:33
+Radix-wrktry going to www.site.com:8109:34
preaction__WRE 0.8 uses 8081 now09:34
+Radix-wrkor whatever port you set modperl to be on09:34
+Radix-wrkokay.. 8081 then09:34
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Samus_Aran'objToJson' will be obsoleted. Please use 'to_json' instead. at /data/wre/sbin/wreconsole.pl line 31209:36
Samus_AranCan't locate object method "autoconv" via package "JSON" at /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/JSON.pm line 122.09:36
Samus_Aranis that error important ?09:37
Samus_Arannot the deprecation part, but the autoconv09:37
preaction__depends, what are you doing?09:37
preaction__are you running 7.5.1 or 7.4.22?09:37
Samus_Aranthat was from the wreconsole.pl09:37
Samus_Aranit died09:37
Samus_Aranit dies when I go to the Settings tab of the web setup interface09:38
preaction__yeah, it's going to do that until 0.8.2 is released09:38
Samus_AranI also don't like that it added a ServerAlias automatically.  I just realised that the regular web site would not be offline, it would be mapping to this beta sub-domain09:40
Samus_Aranwhich seems quite wrong09:40
Samus_Aranjoe.mysite.com should not automatically show up at mysite.com09:41
preaction__submit an RFE09:41
Samus_Aranthat defeats the whole purpose of sub-domains09:41
Samus_Aranperhaps if the subdomain is "www" then it would be an alright default09:41
Samus_Aranthough a redirect is the proper way to handle that, not a ServerAlias09:41
Samus_AranServerAlias's should pretty much not ever be used09:42
Samus_Aranotherwise Google and such will end up with two copies of the site09:42
Samus_Aranpreaction__: to your question, I am on 7.4.2209:44
Samus_Araner, I think I am.  I was when I manually installed it09:44
Samus_Arannow I'm on whatever the WRE installed09:45
Samus_AranI didn't see it mentioned09:45
Samus_Aranis the mod proxy on 8081 allow access from anywhere, or just LAN ?09:45
Samus_Aranand would I use the foo-server name or the domain name ?09:46
Samus_AranI am working remotely.  I did an SSH tunnel to access the foo-server:60834 at work09:47
Samus_Aranwould I need a similar tunnel for 8081, or should going to the domain name (which has proper DNS to the computer in question) be enough ?09:47
preaction__it's meant to allow access from the box itself, localhost. not sure what your firewall allows09:52
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Samus_AranI mean should I be able to access it using foobar.com:8081 ?09:59
Samus_AranI can not currently09:59
Samus_Aranand yes, foobar.com's DNS does point to the appropriate IP and it is forwarded to the server in question10:00
Samus_Aranor is it10:00
* Samus_Aran goes to check the catch-all10:00
Samus_Aranokay, forwarded a port manually and now I get to a login when going to the 8081 prot10:08
Samus_Aranhow can I fix the proxy so that I get to the site setup thing not on port 8081 ?10:09
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ckotilgood morning15:52
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BartJolmorning everyone16:51
perlmonkey2preaction: Wanted to thank you for all your help yesterday.17:15
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perlmonkey2what would you think is wrong with the wre if netstat -ap returned about 15 pages of this: http://pastebin.com/d52d7b70c17:37
nubagoogle docs now has forms to help the everyman collect data into spreadsheets http://www.google.com/google-d-s/whatsnew.html17:40
nubain a certain way, it sounds like a Thingy (Lite Edition)17:41
nubathings would become more interesting the moment they start allowing people to link data from one spreadsheet to another17:43
perlmonkey2hah, I was just wondering if they had an api for it :P17:43
nubathere you go http://code.google.com/apis/spreadsheets/overview.html17:45
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perlmonkey2Ah, should there be a webgui user in the mysql.user table for the wre install?18:19
perlmonkey2I have 4 users, root, test, backup and ''18:19
perlmonkey2oh....no it is a random string...I'm guessing tha tis the webgui user.18:20
perlmonkey2nm :)18:20
@preactioneach site has its own db user, which the wre system creates with that random string18:22
perlmonkey2Do these start up wre log errors look fatal or abnormal? http://pastebin.com/d36421f8518:25
BartJolyou can find it in your config18:25
BartJolsorry, i should mind my own business18:25
perlmonkey2BartJol: ??? why?  I appreciate anyone's help18:26
BartJolyeah, but i'm only confusing you right now18:26
perlmonkey2No, I know what you mean.  18:26
BartJolby using the wre, you create a config, so you can't look it up18:26
perlmonkey2It's in the Webgui/etc/.conf :)18:27
BartJolyeah that one :)18:27
BartJolbut dies anyone here now a thing or two about scratch variables?18:27
perlmonkey2I'm on like hour 10 of trying to figure out why when webgui starts it creates 400 or so localhost tproxy connections, and would try to make more, but for os limits.18:28
BartJoldoes not dies18:28
perlmonkey2BartJol: I dream of the day when I can quit my job and learn all about webgui.18:28
BartJolwell, I'm allowed to spend a couple of hours a week programming18:29
BartJolfor my amusement and learning curve18:29
BartJolbut about the connections, I'm afraid I don't know18:30
perlmonkey2completely driving me insane...the error logs are worthless.18:30
perlmonkey2Is this a bad thing to see in the wre error logs: Compilation failed in require at /data/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl line 72.18:36
BartJolnot really18:37
perlmonkey2I just don't get it......everything was working fine.  Nothing changed, but all of a sudden it wasn't.18:37
BartJolmostly a script that is handled by perl and has some strange mistakes in them can give that18:38
perlmonkey2the wre doesn't auto-update does it?18:38
BartJolyou did do " .setenvironment.pl"18:38
BartJoli suppose18:39
perlmonkey2every time I'm starting something I do that.18:39
BartJolcan't do that often enough it seems18:39
perlmonkey2heh, my path is like 400 lines long now I'v ran it so much.18:40
BartJolbut does the log also refer to another script?18:41
BartJolor does your modperl log say something about it18:41
perlmonkey2that is the error log for mod_perl18:41
perlmonkey2just I'll relook18:41
BartJolah, darn18:41
@preactionyou might want to try running preload.perl by itself quick18:41
perlmonkey2BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm line 21.18:42
perlmonkey2Compilation failed in require at /data/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl line 72.18:42
perlmonkey2is the full line.18:42
perlmonkey2okay preaction I"ll try that.18:42
@preactionImage::ExifTool <- you're missing that i think18:42
@preactionwhen you see BEGIN failed -- compilation aborted, try doing a: cd /data/WebGUI/lib; perl -c WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm18:43
@preactionthat'll show you the real error18:43
perlmonkey2I'm missing a lot of files18:44
perlmonkey2I get a lot of those.18:44
perlmonkey2Can't locate Image/ExifTool.pm18:44
@preactionwhich means you're missing that perl module18:44
perlmonkey2Actually , if no one complains about the spam:18:45
perlmonkey2Can't locate Image/ExifTool.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/5.8.8/i686-linux /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/5.8.8 /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/i686-linux /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8 /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl .) at WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm line 21.18:45
perlmonkey2BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm line 21.18:45
perlmonkey2preaction: But how could I be missing it, if I'm using the wre?18:45
@preactionit's a new requirement18:45
@preactionafter 0.8.1 was released18:45
perlmonkey2I'm just not sure how I got a version of webgui tha tneeds something the wre didn't supply.  and why it worked for a long time then stopped working.18:46
perlmonkey2Should I update the wre?18:46
@preactionthere is no 0.8.218:46
perlmonkey2so the wre is broken?18:47
perlmonkey2and somehow I got an update of webgui that needs something that the wre doesn't have?18:47
@preactionno. it's just missing some new developments in WebGUI18:47
perlmonkey2oh...so this isn't the fatal issue I'm having?18:47
@preactionthis is the fatal issue you're having. even the WRE's installation instructions suggest running testEnvironment.pl18:48
* perlmonkey2 has soooo much to learn about WebGUI.18:48
* perlmonkey2 has money if you have a WG dev guide beta book :D18:50
@preactiondev guide doesn't cover this stuff. this is admin guide stuff18:50
@preactiondev guide covers coding and API18:51
perlmonkey2yeah, something I would have instantly caught if I wasn't useing the WRE.18:51
perlmonkey2I just assumed that there could not be any perl lib issues with the WRE.18:51
@preactionyou could probably post a bug as a reminder to JT to include that module in the WRE 0.8.2 when he's ready18:51
perlmonkey2there are like 518:51
perlmonkey2modules that failed18:52
@preactionArchive::Any, Image::ExifTool, are the two i know of18:52
perlmonkey2those are the two I have18:52
@preactionthose are the two i added for the Gallery18:53
perlmonkey2with broken cpan requirements trees18:53
perlmonkey2thanks :D18:53
@preactionthe updated JSON and Config::JSON, but i think there's already a bug out there about those18:53
perlmonkey2yeah, that seems fixed.18:53
perlmonkey2I just don't get how it worked on my system, then stopped working without an upgrade or anything.18:53
* perlmonkey2 just realized he's updating perl in /usr/lib instead of /dat18:54
perlmonkey2oh, no I'm not....setEnv , duh18:55
-!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat039.mxim.com] has joined #webgui18:55
-!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ18:55
+perlDreamerIt's xdanger18:56
+perlDreamerhe's back18:56
+perlDreamer(at least in bot form)18:56
perlmonkey2preaction: that didn't fix things, but it made the error logs a lot cleaner: http://pastebin.com/d12e825f918:57
@preactionif your server reached MaxClients, with no users, you have a problem. modperl's httpd.conf is at /data/wre/etc/modperl.conf18:58
perlmonkey2that error log is associated with about 400 tproxy localhost connections creating and dieing as fast as the OS can do it.18:58
nubasounds like fun..                  not.18:59
perlmonkey2hah......more than mere words can express :)18:59
nubaperlmonkey2: you can add something like this to setenv: export PS1="now im setenv'ed - $PS1"19:01
perlmonkey2nuba: I know I have the env correct.  But I manually ran preload.perl and got this: Starting WebGUI 7.5.019:02
perlmonkey2Can't locate object method "server" via package "Apache2::ServerUtil" at preload.perl line 80.19:02
perlmonkey2is that just because I'm running it manually?19:02
perlmonkey2the modperl.conf looks completely normal.  I just wish there was some sort of error output for what is going on.19:03
nubai suppose you have enabled more verbose logging for apache?19:03
perlmonkey2nope...thanks I'll look up how to do that :)19:04
nubaif not thats a way to troubleshooting19:04
nubarun a single apache instance as well19:04
nubaenable mod_status19:04
nubalet me see..19:04
BartJolhi perldreamer19:06
nubai have modperl.error.log and modproxy.error.log on /data/wre/prereqs/apache/logs19:06
+perlDreamerYo, BartJol19:06
BartJolmy macro works19:06
nubathats 0.7 wWRE19:06
BartJolnow I have to extend it, because it works on every reload i believe19:06
BartJolthat's a bit to much, so, i will incoporate a scratch variable19:06
perlmonkey2nuba: that tree doens't exist in 8.1.  I'll see if I can find where apache is now.19:06
BartJolyou mean it is cached?19:07
nubayou can try "find /data/wre -name modperl.error.log"19:07
+perlDreamerIf you have admin mode turned on, caching is disabled.19:08
+perlDreamerBut then it would transfer karma on every page load19:08
+perlDreamerso a scratch variables could be good.19:08
BartJolyeah, and if the session is longer than the cache time out, it also runs too often19:08
BartJoland 1 more thing, it should not work when the current user is also the owner of an object19:09
perlmonkey2nuba: I ran from wre/ find . -depth|grep .log$ and no appache.error.log showed up.  Only var/logs with modproxy and modperl19:09
+perlDreamerthat's pretty easy to detect19:09
BartJolI know19:10
BartJolsomething like WebGUI::Session->getUserId19:10
BartJoland a new session object, I'm not using that currently19:12
BartJolI'm stupid19:12
BartJolfirst shift19:12
+perlDreamerevery macro gets a session sent to it automatically19:12
BartJolI realise that now19:13
BartJolthe last one is already implemented19:16
BartJolscratch variable not yet, but first I'm gonna have dinner\19:16
BartJolmaybe tonight if I really don't feel like preparing a presentation on the commerce system19:18
+perlDreamerThe commerce system is going to change19:18
BartJolyeah, that's what the presentation is about19:19
BartJolthe 44 page pdf is already in my bag19:19
BartJolbut I'll be back to annoy you soon :)19:21
* perlmonkey2 installed all the perl reqs in cent 5.1, I'll see if I can do it in cent 5.019:21
@preactionBartJol, you're doing the presentation on the new commerce? nice19:21
BartJolyou at Arjan's place19:21
BartJolunited knowledge19:21
BartJolnot at the wuc19:22
BartJolif I come it will be on the use of macro's19:22
BartJolmaybe I can do 219:22
BartJolwill it be ready?19:23
BartJolotherwise it is a bit of a roadmap talk19:23
@preactioni think that's why rizen is offline presently, besides the convention he was just at19:24
+perlDreamerWell, I think the new commerce idea of basing all currency on the rupee is wrong.19:24
@preactionWDK and Commerce are his two goals for the next couple months19:24
+perlDreamerIt's pretty stable wrt the dollar and the Euro, but still.19:24
@preactionRupees are the new currency! they're good enough for Link19:24
BartJolwell, I'll think about it, first have a look whether I can come at all19:29
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@apeironDangit, I'm doing one on commerce. I refuse to give up my talk on one of the Next Big Things in WebGUI.19:32
@apeironI didn't want to give up a talk on the nonexistent API of Thingy, do you think I'm going to give up one on Commerce?19:32
@preactionuhm... no?19:32
@preactioni wonder which ones i'm going to have to give up19:33
@preactioni don't want to give up any either19:33
@preactionthere's no Thingy API? there's no way to plug-in different kinds of handlers or something?19:33
@apeironJT said to me in email "There's no pluggable API for thingy".19:35
@apeironThis was after I said I didn't want to give up that talk. :)19:35
@preactionwho knows, maybe it won't need one19:36
@preactionbut technically there's no pluggable API for the Gallery currently. you have to edit the Gallery itself to plug-in a new File type19:36
@preactioni suppose i should start pondering that eventually19:36
CIA-21WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template20:09
+perlDreamer"there is no spoon"20:09
CIA-21WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template20:10
CIA-21WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template20:10
+perlDreamerCIA-21: you've got the squirts20:10
* perlmonkey2 really wishes WG didn't use Apache::Request220:16
+perlDreamerwhat should it use instead?20:16
perlmonkey2something that most linux distros support out of the box instead of requiring a PhD in operating systems to install.20:17
@preactionApache2::Request is part of mod_perl and libapr20:17
+perlDreameryeah, yum it20:17
+perlDreamerI haven't needed to compile anything for Fedora for a very long time20:17
@preactionor apt-get, or emerge, whatever your distro does20:17
+perlDreamerwell, until the wre20:18
+perlDreamerbut the WRE comes with everything except for some of the modules20:18
+perlDreamerthat's from FC6, and it should be the same on RHEL 5/CentOs/SciLinux20:20
perlmonkey2perlDreamer: this is cent20:20
+perlDreamer4 or 5?20:20
perlmonkey2I have apr, apr-devel, mod_perl, mod_perl-devel, apache, apache-devel20:21
perlmonkey2it makes, but failes on make test.20:21
perlmonkey2I'm just an idiot....test suites were failing because I was root.20:24
CIA-21WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template20:27
+perlDreamerperlmonkey2: Here's someone else's experience with libapreq2 and CentOs 520:29
perlmonkey2perlDreamer: You see what I said above?  I was running the test suites as root.20:30
perlmonkey2which is a big nono20:31
perlmonkey2my own fault20:31
perlmonkey2but all the libs are built now.  So I can move my wre install to a source install and see if the network issues continue.20:31
perlmonkey2what is funny is the way I'm having to do the mp3 rss feed for the client, it would have worked the same if we had used PB hosting and a 5/month hoster for disk, and about $10/month cheaper.20:32
@preactionpb does offer disk space upgrades. they should be in the store20:38
perlmonkey2They found some hoster that gave 100GB for $7.99/month or some such.20:39
perlmonkey2and most of the VPS's they wanted gave 15GB to 20GB for $30-$40/month.20:39
perlmonkey2I really wish I could offload this project onto PlainBlack :D20:40
nubaperlmonkey2: i just tried some cheapass hosting which gave me 120GB/8.99/mo20:41
nubawhere i was dumping my backups20:41
nubanext thing is they block the account a couple of weeks afterwards, saying that it goes against their TOS20:42
perlmonkey2nuba: My plan was an XML::RSS daemon on the cheapass server up the mp3/video to the WG server.20:42
perlmonkey2nuba: yeah, what I was figuring.20:42
perlmonkey2no one gives that much disk away20:42
nubai somehow talked my way out of that and told them I planned to serve these "machine snapshots" to my friends20:42
nubain a website20:42
perlmonkey2sucker you in with lies and then it is too painful to leave.20:42
nubaas of yet, its still on, that was a couple of months ago20:43
nubaI told them I was just the sysadmin, and the user was another guy, and that I would forward the warning but "please send me the part of your TOS with the wording that says I cant do that"20:44
nubai never heard back from them with the wording20:44
nubachecked the TOS myself, found nothing20:44
nubaso all ok until now, of course they can just change the TOS and ruin the party if they want to20:44
CIA-21WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template20:54
perlmonkey2hah, I think I know what is going on.20:55
perlmonkey2this is classic20:55
perlmonkey2the rss feed on the front page is grabbing an rss producing collab object on another page.  That collab object is now gone.20:55
perlmonkey2but the rss feed is hammering the server trying to get that feed20:56
perlmonkey2that just makes me sad20:56
nubaisnt that a bug?20:56
perlmonkey2a huge one20:56
perlmonkey2that has wasted maybe 24 solid hours of my time I didn't have to waste.20:57
nubahammering the server until it gets the feed it wants20:57
perlmonkey2I'm not 100% sure that is the problme20:57
perlmonkey2but once I commit the removal of the rss feed, I'll know for sure.20:57
perlmonkey2if I can get to the commit page.20:57
+perlDreamerperlmonkey2: iirc, Spectre does the RSS prefetch20:58
+perlDreamerso disabling that workflow may immediatly reduce your load20:59
perlmonkey2spectre isn't running ....20:59
perlmonkey2I'll try to commit the changes which remove the rss feed and then disable that workflow20:59
perlmonkey2do workflows do anything when spectre isn't running?21:01
+perlDreamerthey shouldn't21:01
perlmonkey2would it be the EMS Precache?21:01
@preactiondo you have a Syndicated Content wobject? if there is no RSS prefetch, then the SC asset tries to do i t21:02
@preactionworkflows can run without spectre. spectre just tips them off. WebGUI does the real work21:02
+perlDreamerit's the GetSyndicatedContent Workflow activity that prefetches RSS21:03
perlmonkey2that has to be what is happening.21:03
perlmonkey2and the wobject shows locked and all versions committed.21:03
CIA-21WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template21:03
@preactionwtf is CIA on a loop or something?21:04
@apeironI think it's subtly trying to tell us how important that commit is.21:04
@preactionit's not being very subtle about it21:05
nubawell at least its not flooding the channel21:05
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@apeironpreaction, http://code.google.com/p/cia-vc/issues/detail?id=221:07
@apeironSeems other people are seeing this too.21:07
perlmonkey2the explosion only happens when I go to the I have a SC that is locked on the front page.  I'm 99% sure it is the problem.  How do I unlock it?  Spectre is running.21:07
@preactionperlmonkey2, you have to wait for spectre to process the commit21:08
@preactioncia.vc seems to be only partially reachable at the moment. so i don't know if i can even remove the bot21:09
nubamost repeated revisions by CIA bots, from my partial irclogs:21:09
nubahq% grep -E '< CIA.* \* r.*' \#webgui.200* | awk '{print $7, $5}' | uniq -c | sort -rn | head 6 r5413 graham 6 r5207 jt 3 r5255 doug 3 r5209 jt 2 r5391 doug 2 r5292 jt21:09
nubaoops some linebreaks are missing there21:10
nuba6 r5413 graham21:10
nuba6 r5207 jt21:10
* apeiron would rather the paste be on one line than flood the channel. :)21:10
nubaheh true21:10
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perlmonkey2so the SC was the problem21:11
perlmonkey2don't ever have an SC pointing at a bad uri....or at least one you own, cause it will DOS yoru machine.21:11
nubarank of revisions where CIA bots got stuck, NOW ON PASTEBIN! http://webgui.pastebin.com/m26f05bef21:12
nubagraham's r5413 is in a tie with JT's r5207 in the first place21:14
nubaim rooting for graham, hes such a bug fixing whiz!21:15
nubago graham go21:15
nuba>cause it will DOS yoru machine.21:16
nubadont forget aobut DOSing someone else's machine21:16
perlmonkey2nuba: well that would have been btter...they could have blocked the requests and let me know I was DOS'ing them.21:19
perlmonkey2instead the machine just died.21:19
perlmonkey2wow, that bug just cost me a lot of money21:21
BartJoldoes a scratch variable just have 1 value, that can be altered?21:22
BartJoloh and hi guys21:22
BartJolor can it contain more values?21:22
+perlDreameryou'd have to manually serialize it yourself, BartJol21:22
+perlDreamertransform from multiple values into 1 value (like a string)21:23
BartJolbecause I just want to store the visted url's in a session21:24
BartJolso I have to make a variable each time an url is visited?21:24
+perlDreamerSomething has to keep track of where the user has been and how long ago21:25
+perlDreamerKind of sounds like the passive profiling system21:25
BartJolwell, the time is not very interesting to me21:25
+perlDreameris it one time ever?21:25
+perlDreameronly once?21:25
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BartJolyes, well at least, one per session21:26
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BartJolone for always is also possible, but then I have to store it somewhere21:26
BartJolin the db21:26
BartJolthat would be a disc consuming business21:27
@preactionsession->scratch is cleaned up when the session is cleaned up21:27
BartJolI know, but that is no really objection to me21:27
* perlDreamer lunches21:27
nubaBartJol: you need to keep track of it in the cookie?21:28
BartJolno, in a session21:28
nubaBartJol: would storing a row with (date, userid, pageurl) in a DB work for you?21:28
BartJolwell, only when it's done when my macro is axecuted, not on page loading21:29
nubayou could regularly expire old records21:29
nubaand its simple to do that with a macro21:29
BartJolcan it be done within the api?21:30
BartJolI rather not do it by writuing directly into the db21:30
BartJolthen I may have to reprogram it for a new version21:31
BartJolyou know what my macro is doing?21:32
nubawell I wold create another DB instead of using WebGUI's21:32
nubaand there, create a table21:32
nubathen theres this, i dont know what you want to do with this data21:32
nubaif you use your DB, your table, your SQL queries wont change21:33
BartJolit's an AddKarma macro, to be executed within a template21:33
nubaunless you change your DB schema21:33
BartJolI'll keep it in mind21:33
nubaso you wont have to change it every time WebGUI is released21:33
nubawith a change in the DB21:33
BartJolbut it should give karma to the owner of an asset when it's visted21:34
BartJoland I want to implement, that it is possible only once per session21:35
BartJolfor one asset21:35
nubaso you want the macro to know what asset it is being called from?21:35
BartJolso I'd like to store the url, so it can check whether the asset is already visited21:35
BartJolyes, but that part is already working21:36
BartJolthe url (or in the future you can also choose the Id) is given with the macro by a tmpl_var21:37
nubasounds interesting. would be great if there was a "run on session expire" feature in webgui.21:37
nubalike event handlers21:38
BartJolbut maybe I should also build a choice that it is only possible once per asset revision or asset21:38
BartJolbut a db creation is quite usefull, especially for the last option21:40
BartJolwill be difficult to check revisions21:40
BartJoland i also have to keep the user visitor in mind21:42
nubayou can store the session hash as well21:42
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nubainstead of the user. or both.21:43
nubaif tracking users is of relevance21:43
BartJolwell that was why i limiting it to sessions21:44
nubaBartJol: gimme a sec.21:44
BartJolwhat's up wgGuest 88?21:44
wgGuest88i have a question related to the sql forms, when i go to a sql form, it shows the search template as default21:45
wgGuest88can i change it to show to the template that have the fields to add a new record?21:46
BartJolI suppose so21:47
wgGuest88how can i change it?21:47
wgGuest88do you know?21:47
BartJoloh, there is only one opption, but you did create a new template?21:48
BartJolor do you mean the template that is shown while creating the form?21:49
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wgGuest81bartJol, now i am wgGuest8121:50
BartJoli suspected already21:50
BartJoldid you get the last remark?21:50
wgGuest81i need to put the template that shows the form as a default when someone go to the sql form21:50
BartJolmmm, I should make an sql form myself, to test it21:51
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nubaBartJol: i added this line to my site's modproxy apache config file: CustomLog /tmp/BartJol.log "%{wgSession}C %h %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %b"21:54
nubathen head -1 /tmp/BartJol.log21:54
nubalGtANrQ0lwU2sHC00wBSEw - - [11/Feb/2008:17:24:49 -0200] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 1873821:54
nubaso you could keep track of urls being visited in a session this way too21:54
BartJoland how do I check that from within the macro21:55
nubawrite to a log, then process/rotate it with a cron job21:55
wgGuest43i try to run spectre.pl and Displays the following error: 'jsonToObj' will be obsoleted. Please use 'from_json' instead. at /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8/Config/JSON.pm line 13421:55
BartJolmmm sounds possible, but maybe a bit above my knowledge right now21:56
wgGuest43how i can fix this?21:56
BartJoloh joy JSON again21:56
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nubamaybe it should be added to the topic. "jsonToObj errors? update JSON and Config::JSON!"21:57
@khennthe JSON issue will need to be fixed.  It shouldn't cause any problems though21:57
@khennjust make sure you are running WebGUI 7.4.2221:58
BartJolbut I will try to help on the sql issue of wgguest 81/88 template thingy21:58
@apeironHmm, if memory serves that's a warning not an error, yes? The "'jsonToObj will be obsoleted'"21:58
BartJolwith emphasise on try21:59
nubaanother good one for the topic: "Something broke? Did you check docs/gotcha.txt?"21:59
@khennyes , it's a warning21:59
@khennnothing breaks21:59
@khennlog it as a bug on pb.com if it's not already there22:00
wgGuest25yes a warning22:00
wgGuest25but, i don't see my webpage22:00
wgGuest25i saw in blank22:01
@khennthat's not because of spectre22:01
@khennthat's a different problem22:01
wgGuest81BartJol, if a call a macro in a template and it returns a collections or records, is posible to show a list of this record directly in the template?22:01
@khenncheck the the modproxy logs22:01
BartJolwgguest 81, sorry, I have some issues creating another database, I'm a bit of a sql newby22:03
BartJolstill trying though, have to learn22:05
wgGuest81hello all22:07
metanil<tmpl_var form.start> will return the form tag with its proper action.. with i found it doesn't have name..  how can i able to give a simple name to this form.. (implicitly in form.start)22:07
wgGuest81if a call a macro in a template and it returns a collections or records, is posible to show a list of this record directly in the template?22:08
@preactionyou can't. you could write your own form.start though (in the template)22:08
Samus_Aranpreaction: are you around today ?  I could use a bit of help if you are22:08
@preactionwgGuest81, macros are processed after the template is processed. dunno if that answers your question22:08
@preactionSamus_Aran, can't. taking lunch and buying compy parts22:08
* preaction &22:08
metanilpreaction, you mean 'template' i could see 'form.start' in the template itself. there must be some .pm file which drives this.. is it?22:10
Samus_AranRadix_: or you, as you mentioned using the proxy thing.  I would like to use the WRE with the pre-existing Apache, using a mod_proxy to hand off requests as appropriate22:10
Samus_Aranpreaction: no problem.  enjoy22:10
wgGuest81preaction, if a put the macro in the beggining of the template, it will be executed after the template, too?22:10
@khenncopy the html from <tmpl_var form.start>22:12
@khennthen go into the template22:12
@khennremove <tmpl_var form.start>22:12
@khennpaste in what it was printing out22:12
@khennand modify as necessary22:12
@khenndon't change the action22:12
@khennthen you can name it whatever you want22:12
BartJolmmm, mysql won't let me create the db and I don't rmember the db admin passwd comination... so I'm afraid I can't help you at the moment wgguest 8122:13
@khennyou don't need to modify the core of WebGUI to make template changes22:13
BartJolhave to fix that first22:13
Samus_Arandoes anyone else know anything about using the WRE alongside an existing Apache/Perl/MySQL install ?22:13
BartJoland I like to improve my macro, which also eats time22:13
Samus_Aranas the manual install runs in ultra slow motion for me, quite unusable22:14
@khennI know it can be a pain to install manually.22:14
Samus_Aranor is there simply some way I can test the WRE on an alternate port ?22:14
@khennbut you know that too22:14
metanilkhenn, i am thinking of changing WebGUI::Form::formHeader.. .. is it ok?22:14
wgGuest81thanks BartJol22:14
@khenndon't change that22:14
@khennnext upgrade you'll lose your changes22:15
@khennjust replace <tmpl_var form.start> with raw HTML22:15
Samus_AranI got it installed manually quite well, without any issues I thought, but then it was going in slow motion.  10 to 30 seconds to load any page, on an unused server22:15
@khennas long as you have the same action, it will be fine22:15
@khennSamus, it could be a number of things22:15
Samus_Aranso now I want to try the WRE.  almost got the WRE working on the weekend, but couldn't access the site through the proxy22:15
metanilhmm.. thanks khenn.. 22:16
@khennit could be: the number of child processes in apache22:16
@khennI believe WebGUI itself uses 322:16
Samus_AranI reduced the children, as they were using tons of RAM22:16
@khennwhat did you reduce it to?22:17
Samus_Aranit was at 8 or 10 I think, and each was using around 78MiB RAM22:17
@khennI think I run my dev server at 522:17
Samus_Aranwhich seems highly excessive22:17
metanilkhenn, what if that template is used by several pages???22:17
Samus_Aranthe server is a dual-CPU 1.6Ghz with 1GiB RAM currently22:17
@khennmetanil: what is the action?22:18
@khennon each of the pages22:18
@khennis it posting to itself?22:18
@khennif so, use the page macro as the action22:18
@khennSamus:  have you checked DNS22:18
metanilits the page which add this template22:18
@khennwe had issues a few weeks back where the server wasn't recognizing DNS22:18
@khennwhich was causing every image to load ultra slow22:18
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@khennHaarg would know more about the DNS stuff than I would22:19
metanilkhenn, like /home/music/genre/form22:19
@khennI think we had to explicitly put something in /etc/hosts22:19
metanilfor this will only work for form page right?22:19
@khennmetanil: I think the page macro should work fine22:19
@khennI can't remember what it is22:19
metanilummm.. yaa. that would be great.22:19
@khennjust set the action of the form to the page macro22:19
metanil(why didn't i think about it before)22:19
Samus_Arankhenn: MinSpareServers      2, MaxSpareServers      4, MaxClients           2022:20
metanilkhenn,, and macro will return exact page url, right22:20
wgGuest81BartJol, can you help me tomorrow with the sql form?22:20
wgGuest81i am going to test at night and if a get something i will tell you tomorrow22:21
BartJolwell other people know more about it22:21
Samus_Arankhenn: and I added a MaxRequestsPerChild  300, as I was concerned about a memory leak such as was present with spectre (using 350MiB RAM after 2 days)22:22
BartJolbut tomorrow I'm only available til 6 pm cet22:22
BartJolwell, I suspect everyone :)22:22
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@khennmetanil: the macro will return the page it's on22:23
@khennso that actually might not work22:23
Samus_Arankhenn: my Apache threads normally use 4.3MiB RAM, and with WebGUI that goes up to around 78MiB each.  it seems that WebGUI does not play well in a shared environment22:23
@khennunless the asset itself is the page22:23
@khennif that's the case, it'll work great22:24
@khennif the asset is on a page22:24
BartJolwgGuest81, dapperedodo and Mr Hairgrease know a lot about it, but are on holidays right now22:24
@khennthen the post will not work correctly when on the page22:24
Samus_Aranas there are other web sites, which will now use tons of RAM even serving simple HTML pages22:24
metanilhmm.. ya.. i think so..22:24
BartJolbut they have a site22:24
@khennSamus:  here's what I would recommend doing22:25
perlmonkey2is there anyway to have cgi-bin be a functional scriptalias passthru?  I can't seem to make it work.22:25
@khenndownload the latest WRE and install it on a test box (or virtual machine)22:25
@khennthen look at how we've configured apache / mod perl / etc22:26
BartJolsorry wgGuest81, I was mistaken, it was on the sqlreport and in dutch.. which might cause some trouble22:26
BartJolbut it is www.sqlreport.org22:26
@khennI run on the WRE 0.81 on a P3 550 with only 512 megs of ram22:26
@khennand it's actually pretty fast22:26
@khennso it's definitely something with your configuration22:27
@khennoh I'm running on Centos22:27
@khennI also have a dev box on my mac22:27
@khennbut that's a different story22:27
@khennperlmonkey2:  you need to set up a rewrite rule in apache22:28
perlmonkey2khenn: okay, thanks :)22:28
Samus_Arankhenn: how much RAM do your Apache threads use each ?  mine are 60 to 70MiB each as soon as WebGUI is enabled22:28
@khennon my P3, I get up to 380 megs used at times22:29
Samus_Aran(with a manual install)22:29
@khennI've never had the box crash22:29
@khennand I've never had it run ultra slow22:29
@khennbut again, I'm not using a manual install22:29
@khennso I'm guessing it's a config / fine tuning issue22:29
Samus_Aranbut how much do individual threads of Apache use ?  I want to know if my manual install is completely borked, or if it's normal to use that much22:30
@khennI don't know how much each individual thread of Apache uses22:30
@khennI'm not even sure how I would find that out.22:30
@khennall I can see is how much total ram is being used by Apache22:31
@khennall I know how to see anyway22:31
@khennunfortunately we are pretty much at the limit of what I know how to troubleshoot22:32
Samus_Aranif you wanted to see RAM used, this command will do it: \ps ww -e -o rss,args | grep httpd | grep -v grep22:34
Samus_Aranit will display kilobytes of RAM for each Apache thread22:34
Samus_Aranfor some unknown reason, when I started up the WebGUI running from the manual install, it is fast22:34
Samus_Aranthere is now the /WRE in /data.  perhaps it is using something from in there, even though it shouldn't.  I'm not sure22:35
@khenni'll check my dev box22:35
Samus_Aranthe WRE isn't being used currently22:35
Samus_Aranbut pages are loading <1 second22:35
@khennyeah I'm not sure22:36
Samus_Aranit was a minimum of 5-8 seconds when I was working on it Thursday22:36
Samus_Aranand often 3022:36
@khennsounds like something you did along the way fixed the problem22:36
Samus_Aranand since then I have not touched my manual install, I just moved it and put it back today22:36
Samus_Aranoh well.  if it's working, it's working22:36
Samus_Aran[until it decides to stop working again, hehe]22:36
Samus_Aranit is perfectly fine now, nice and fast22:38
@khennI ran that command22:38
@khenneach apache thread is using < 75k22:39
@khenner < 65k22:39
@khenner > 65k22:39
@khennless than22:39
Samus_AranI think I will test if it is using some component of the WRE I installed in /data.  I will stop apache, rename /data and then try again22:39
@khennI take it you have WebGUI installed somewhere besides /data22:39
@khennie: /data/WebGUI/lib22:40
@khennotherwise you might just want to rename /data/wre22:40
Samus_AranI have my manual install in /var/www/WebGUI and my domain at /var/www/foo.com22:42
Samus_Aranokay, renamed the old /data and restarted ... lemme see if it is slow now22:42
Samus_Aranmade no difference.  still nice and fast22:42
Samus_AranI guess I can remove the WRE now and get on with developing the web site22:43
@khennwell, it's a mystery but it's solved22:43
Samus_Aranphew !22:43
Samus_Aranthanks for your help, khenn and preaction and Radix_ 22:43
@khennsure thing22:43
Samus_AranI haven't used WebGUI since v4.x, it has changed a lot.  I find it more confusing now22:43
Samus_Aranbut I will try to figure it out22:44
@khennit's 1000 times the size22:44
@khennwow WebGUI 4 eh?22:44
@khennthat's a long time ago22:44
@khennHaving used both versions, I can honestly say version 7 is much better22:45
@khennespecially from a developers standpoint22:45
@khennit's a lot more customizeable22:45
Samus_AranI find the UI more confusing, however I see a huge number of new features22:45
Samus_Aranand I like features =)22:45
@khennyou think the UI is more confusing?22:46
wgGuest24i have webgui 7.4.18 and don't see my page22:46
@khennI thought it was much worse when all of the admin stuff was right in the middle of your page22:46
@khennwhat do you mean you don't see your page?22:46
Samus_Arankhenn: for example adding a section to a page.  it used to be intuitive, now I'm not even sure how to do it22:46
wgGuest24and in the webgui.log i found this error:  ERROR - spectre.conf - POE::Kernel::_dispatch_event[1012] - ADMIN: Couldn't connect to WebGUI site22:46
wgGuest24what i must do?22:47
@khennsounds like a configuration problem22:47
@khennmy guess is you have the IP address or port misconfigured22:47
@khennfor spectre22:47
Samus_Arankhenn: e.g. a new column or a paragraph of text.  in 4.x it was very clear what to do, now all I see is "pages".  preaction said that all the sections are pages now, which seems kind of strange22:47
wgGuest24i do a copy of spectre.conf.original 22:48
wgGuest24and don't modified22:48
@khennthe problem is likely in your webgui config file22:48
@khenndo a search for spectre in there22:48
@khennSamus:  anything in WebGUI can be a page these days22:49
@khennfor instance22:49
@khennif you wanted to create a page that only had one article on it22:49
@khennyou could simply add the article as a child of home or something else22:49
@khennexpose it to the navigation22:49
@khennand presto, it's a page22:50
@khennthe only time you really need to use "Pages" per say, is when you want to display more than one  "thing" on a "page"22:50
@khennI guess that can be a bit confusing22:50
Samus_Aranin WebGUI 4.x, there would often be dozens of items on the page22:51
Samus_Araneach section was self-contained, so you could cut/paste it somewhere else, or move it to a new column, etc.22:52
Samus_AranI'm not sure how to do that type of management in 7.x22:52
@khennit's drag and drop now22:53
@khennadd a page layout22:53
@khennthen you can start adding things to that page layout22:53
@khennthose things become children of the page layout22:53
@khennand you can drag and drop them or move them about via the asset manager22:53
@khennactually, we have published an entire book on managing content in WebGUI22:54
@khennthere is a great deal of content in there22:55
@khennabout using pretty much everything in WebGUI22:55
@khenn(in terms of content)22:55
@khennI gotta run.  BBL22:55
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wgGuest24my spectre.conf looks good22:55
wgGuest24i don't know that do?22:56
perlmonkey2With the $15/month PB hoster, there is no way to run custom macros?23:04
wgGuest24que debo hacer??23:06
nubapregunta y espera23:09
nubaen el entremedio, puedes leer al wiki o a los foruns23:10
nubalo mejor es que pregunte en inglés23:10
nubayour questions will reach more people this way23:11
BartJolwell the session logging seems to work reasonly23:13
BartJoland the owner does not get karma anymore23:13
BartJolbut the session logging does not always work great23:14
wgGuest24ya pregunte en ingles y nada23:14
wgGuest24they tell me that my spectre.conf is wrong, but this it's good23:14
nubawgGuest24: can you handle yourself with a shell?23:16
BartJolbut maybe it is just caching23:16
nubawgGuest24: fire a shell, go to /data/wre/sbin, type '. ./setenvironment' without the quotes23:16
nubathat will set your environment properly23:17
nubathen go to /data/WebGUI/sbin and run 'perl spectre.pl --test'23:17
nubaif you see 'Tests completed.' and no error, your spectre is ok23:18
nubaotherwise it'll spit some error for you23:18
wgGuest24i dn't have wre i have the source23:18
nubawhich you should use as your starting point23:18
nubaits been a while since I used to run webgui without the WRE, not sure I can help you then23:19
nubaanyway, try 'perl spectre.pl --test from wherever it is your WebGUI/sbin is located now23:20
wgGuest24'jsonToObj' will be obsoleted. Please use 'from_json' instead. at /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8/Config/JSON.pm line 13423:20
nubaperlbot: life with cpan23:21
perlbotInformation pertaining to the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN) can be found at http://sial.org/howto/perl/life-with-cpan/23:21
wgGuest24couldn't connect www.ejemplo.com23:21
nubadid you add the proper DNS entries for your www.ejemplo.com site?23:23
nubaor added it to /etc/hosts23:23
wgGuest24and restart apache223:23
nubaif you type 'host www.ejemplo.com', is it pointing to your machine's IP or some IP apache would be listening at?23:23
wgGuest24yes, my ip, because it's local23:24
nubawhat is your webgui release again?23:24
nubais this a fresh install ? any reason for not using the latest stable?23:25
nubaactually, any reason for not using the wre?23:25
wgGuest24i have this before, and reinstall my ubuntu and now is install webgui23:26
+perlDreamerperlmonkey2: you can't run any custom perl code on PB's hosting, unless you get your own server.23:27
Samus_AranwgGuest24: if it is local, do you have a DNS server or is it in your hosts file ?23:27
nubayou know you could use the wre, install webgui 7.4.18 on it, add a site with the same name of what you had before, then replace the database for the one you had, and place the uploads under /data/domains/www.ejemplo.com/public, and live happly ever after, dont you?23:28
nubaby using the WRE it will be easier for you to get help from the community23:29
nubaie. in my case I dont really remember a lot of configuring/troubleshooting a lone webgui install, no WRE23:30
BartJolperlDreamer, you mentioned a time ago something about wrting tests23:31
+perlDreameryeah man23:31
+perlDreamerready to learn?23:31
BartJolI feel I get in the stage that that might get usefull23:31
+perlDreamerokay, let me throw some resources your way23:31
BartJolah, that would be nice23:31
BartJolneed my mail?23:32
+perlDreamer1) Get a copy of my Testing Tutorial from WUC 2006.  Koen, Joeri, Martin should all have copies23:32
+perlDreamer2) perldoc Test::Tutorial23:32
+perlDreamer3) perldoc Test::More23:32
+perlDreamerif you can't get a copy of my WUC talk, let me know and I'll email you one23:32
BartJolok, Ill check that tomorrow23:33
perlmonkey2perlDreamer: that's what I remembered, but I wanted to make sure.  Thanks23:33
+perlDreamerand from what I see on their site, $15 hosting is now $20 hosting23:34
+perlDreamerSo good job for purchasing early :)23:34
+perlDreamerBartJol: In the meantime, have a look at the tests in /data/WebGUI/t/Macro for ideas and stuff to borrow.23:35
BartJolbut it seems to run quite ok right now, but it really needs testing23:35
+perlDreamerwith automated tests, no more loading, and reloading, and so on.23:36
+perlDreamerYou set it up once, and keep using it.23:36
BartJolbut you can do tests what happens on a reload?23:37
+perlDreamerSure.  Reload is the second time the user accesses the macro.23:37
BartJolright now I already feel a bit proud that I came this far23:38
perlmonkey2what ever happened to crythias?23:38
+perlDreamerYou should, man!  You've worked hard and done well.23:38
BartJolit takes some initialisation time, but after that it goes quite ok23:39
BartJoleasier to fix mistakes and stuff23:39
Samus_Arandoes anyone have any idea why the site search might not work ?23:42
wgGuest24yes i have /data/domain/ejemplo.com/www/public23:42
Samus_AranI don't get any errors, just no results.  it puts me on the search page again23:42
Samus_Aranhm.  apparently if you use ^c; for the company name, it won't find it when you type part of the name23:43
Samus_AranI tried some other words and they were found23:43
BartJolah, yes I heard that it is a bit sensitive sometimes23:43
+perlDreamerSamus_Aran: I _think_ you have to run the site indexer manually when you start the site.23:43
Samus_Aranactually, that isn't the issue.  hm23:43
Samus_Aranit seems to be ignoring my Contact form text23:44
Samus_AranperlDreamer: I will look into that23:44
Samus_Aranit finds the page names, but not text on the page23:44
BartJolbut I'm gonna relax now and test later23:48
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+perlDreamerI think the SpectreCheck macro needs to use the most maligned HTML tag of all time.23:57
Samus_AranDoes anyone know how I can make the news post immediately ?  it is set to "Commit without approval"23:57
Samus_AranI thought <blink> was the most maligned23:57
+perlDreamerYup.  If spectre is broken, then I want it to be very visible.23:58
+perlDreamerSamus_Aran: This is a guess, but try the sitewide settings for autocommit and autoapprove.  They should make that intermediate page go away.23:58
+perlDreamerBut they will apply to ALL asset commits, not just the News23:59
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BartJolcan't you call the macro with tehe rolling eyes of jt?23:59
BartJolxeyes evaluated23:59
--- Day changed Tue Feb 12 2008
cap10morganWhat are common causes of this error when trying to exec a workflow instance: "Couldn't execute operation ... Root cause: can't build entity: no body, and not multipart"?00:00
BartJoloh, sorry, it was an acme, and then it would be usefull00:00
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Samus_AranperlDreamer: it is a small site, I don't think we will need much of a workflow.  realtime is alright00:00
+perlDreamercap10morgan: That's a new one on us.00:00
cap10morganperlDreamer: great! :)00:01
+perlDreamerwanna nopaste some log file output?00:01
cap10morganthat's all of it00:01
cap10morganw/o turning up the logging level00:01
+perlDreamerwebgui.log or error.log?00:01
cap10morganwhich i may have to do here shortly...00:01
+perlDreamercheck the error.log00:02
+perlDreamerthat's not a WebGUI error00:02
cap10morganhmm, the error.log says nothing when i generate that error00:03
cap10morganbut it does have tons of Apache2::SizeLimit messages00:03
cap10morganover and over00:03
cap10morganit's killing processes left and right00:03
CIA-21WebGUI: colin * r5414 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Macro/_macro.skeleton: added POD to the macro skeleton00:03
Samus_AranperlDreamer: I really do not understand the versioning used in 7.x00:04
Samus_AranperlDreamer: I went and clicked on "commit my changes" and it reverted all the work I did00:04
+perlDreameris Spectre running and configured properly?00:05
Samus_AranperlDreamer: at this point I am unsure what is going on =/00:05
Samus_Aranrunning, yes.  configured properly, I don't know00:05
Samus_AranI did a manual install via the instructions on the web site00:05
+perlDreamerhead over to the WebGUI sbin directory and do a perl spectre.pl --test00:06
Samus_AranERROR: Spectre cannot communicate with WebGUI. Perhaps you need to adjust the spectreSubnets setting in this config file: <domain>.conf00:07
+perlDreamerwell, there you go00:07
+perlDreamerWebGUI can't talk to spectre to commit your assets, so they're locked00:07
+perlDreamerwhile they're locked, the site doesn't display them00:08
Samus_Aranwhen I clicked commit, it lcoked them00:08
Samus_Aranokay, going to look00:08
Samus_Aranoh I know what's going on00:08
Samus_Aranor not.00:09
Samus_Aran(I thought it was an incorrect password)00:09
+perlDreamerSamus_Aran: If you've found any of our help useful today, you can help us by making a wiki page with what you've learned today.00:09
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Samus_Aran"spectreSubnets" : [ "" ],  "spectreIp" : "",  "spectrePort" : 32323,00:12
Samus_Aranthat is normal, is it not ?00:12
+perlDreamerlooks okay, but then again, I'm not all that familiar with Spectre.00:13
+perlDreamerwhat's in spectre.conf?00:13
BartJolwhat happens when you change the ip to the real ip?00:14
Samus_Aran"ip" : "",  "port" : 32323,  "maxWorkers" : 3,  "webguiPort" : 80,  00:14
BartJoland I've seen other subnets than 3200:14
BartJolI got it working once by changing it to 16 or 24 I believe00:15
Samus_Aranoh my gosh:00:16
Samus_Aran-rw-r--r-- 1 www-data root 246M 2008-02-11 14:15 /var/log/webgui.log00:16
Samus_Aranthat is a large log file, considering I have done almost nothing on WebGUI so far00:16
Samus_AranI see this in the log file:00:18
CIA-21WebGUI: colin * r5414 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Macro/_macro.skeleton: added POD to the macro skeleton00:18
Samus_Aranmain::[[undef]] - Visitor (1) connecting from <external_ip> attempted to make a Spectre workflow runner request, but we're on ly allowed to accept requests from
Samus_Aranthat appears a lot00:18
Samus_Aranso presumably the router is giving my connection the external IP00:19
Samus_Araneven though both this computer and the server are on the same LAN00:19
Samus_Aranthough I thought it was just the webgui process that would connect to it, in which case the IP shouldn't matter00:19
Samus_Aranas it never leaves localhost00:20
Samus_AranI'm not entirely clear on this whole webgui/spectre communication thing00:20
Samus_Aranthis error appears a lot: "Couldn't get UI level of WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WeatherData. Root cause: Can't locate object method "getUiLevel""00:22
Samus_Aranvia package "WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WeatherData" at /var/www/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm line 696.00:22
BartJolSamus_Aran, the subnet was changed to 1600:24
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metanilCan i have "File submitted by", "File submitted at (time)", "File last accessed by" beside "description" and "last updated" field in the File asset.??00:30
BartJolwell you can, if the template variables exist00:31
@preactionnot last accessed (unless that means last changed). submitted by is probably easy (<tmpl_var ownerUserId>)00:31
@preactionbut you'll need to get the username out of that. probably with a macro. dunno if any macros built-in will do it00:32
Samus_Aranpreaction: could you help me figure out why spectre can't communicate with my manually installed webgui ?  it is running very fast now, by the way00:34
Samus_Arannot sure why, but I'm not complaining00:34
@preactioni would bet that spectre is for some reason binding on the external IP. or if your /etc/hosts has yourdomain.com pointing to that external IP, it might show up like that. your best bet would be to do what the error message from spectre.pl --test said, and put your external IP in spectreSubnets00:35
Samus_AranI just got a new error, when restarting apache and spectre00:37
Samus_Aranactually that error seems to only be because I had stopped apache and then loaded spectre first00:39
Samus_Aranafk brb00:39
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Samus_Araneverything seems to be working now.  added the external IP as a subnet to Spectre00:58
Samus_Arannot sure why Spectre is even looking at the external IP when it's on the same computer as WebGUI00:59
Samus_Aranall my changes reappeared00:59
+perlDreamerSpectre processed the version workflow00:59
nubai think it would be good if every wiki update would appear here with the wikipage title, and the webgui.org nickname of the person who did the change01:00
+perlDreamernuba: PB's contract with their provider says "NO IRC"01:00
+perlDreamerYou'd have to screen scrape it.01:00
nubalike "Wiki: WebGUI Search System edited by knowmad"01:01
nuba"Wiki: Subscriptions, Manage added by knowmad"01:01
Samus_Arancan the wiki provide a dump of the most recent 50 posts, in xml or csv ?  that would be simple enough to check once per 5 minutes or similar01:02
nubatheres http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki?func=recentChanges01:02
nubai can whip that up with irssi01:02
nubaperlDreamer: if they can run a irc client from their servers, they can have a irc bot01:03
nubabut maybe even that they cannot do01:03
+perlDreamerit isn't on their servers, it runs locally on the web client in Java01:03
+perlDreamerI've been hounding JT about this for two years.01:04
+perlDreamerHe's very adamant about the contract.01:04
nubait happens that irc client, some bots, and a private ircd (for work), well, thats exactly what I do from my dedacated server :)01:04
Samus_Aranyou could also set up an SSH tunnel from the server01:05
nubanever had any issue with the providers. but then my ircd is wrapped with SSL, with a password to connect to the ircd too01:05
nubaand this is a very very low traffic machine01:06
@preactionnuba, if you're willing, JT has said he will accept me building an interface (a la JSON or XML or somesuch) to the data that your bot could use01:09
@preactionof course, one of the features i want to see in the wiki is the ability to subscribe to a wikipage01:10
@preactionwhich would fulfill the same purpose really01:11
nubathe wiki having a RSS feed would be good enough01:11
nubadoes it?01:11
nubaotherwise im scraping it01:11
nubait would make a lot of sense for me this of people subscribing to a RSS feed of recent changes in a wiki01:12
Samus_Arannuba: if they can modify the wiki to dump in csv or xml, it will save the server from sending more data than it needs (a whole HTML page)01:12
cap10morganhmm, a bunch of my modperl instances are segfaulting01:13
cap10morganany clever tricks to debug why that's happening?01:13
cap10morgani should say, modperl processes01:13
nubaand kdump?01:13
nubayou can have hours of fun with that01:13
+perlDreamerPB people: When is the rizenator back?01:14
nubafor some offbeat definition of fun, of course01:14
@preactionnuba, i can build a shortcut to the wiki that will give you whatever you want in whatever serialization you want, JSON, XML, or otherwise. (i'd prefer JSON, more possibilities)01:14
cap10morgannuba: hmm, googling, thanks for the suggestion01:14
cap10morgannuba: does ktrace work on linux?01:15
cap10morganlooks like a bsd thing01:15
nubacap10morgan: if you launch a single instance of apache, enable ktrace, and reproduce the error, skip to about the end of your dump and its probably around there01:15
nubathats what I sometimes do on freebsd, dunno what you'd use in linux01:16
cap10morganah, ok01:16
cap10morgani guess that would be strace01:16
@preactionDebugging and profiling mod_perl applications: http://www.perl.com/lpt/a/97401:17
nubaSamus_Aran: for a 18566 bytes html, its ~66MB/day plus some little overhead to retrieve /community-wiki?func=recentChanges every minute and scrap it01:20
nubapreaction: if I can ask, I'd first ask that the wiki outputs RSS so that besides scrapping I can subscribe to it01:21
nubaor any webgui wiki01:21
@preactioni could write something to do that, yes01:21
@preactiongive me until tomorrow01:22
nubaafterwards looking for other formats like JSON would be ok, but the RSS is the thing I think most people wouldbenefit from01:22
nubapreaction: can plainblack live with 66Mb/day for a few days?01:22
@preactionwhat do you mean?01:22
nubaif yes im getting this bot to scrap the page and post new updates here today01:23
+perlDreamerone WebGUI download / day from PB is bigger than that, nuba01:23
@preactionyes, but the download doesn't go through webgui01:23
nubai knkow, but since Samus_Aran brought the worry about MB/day up..01:23
metanilis there any method available in webgui core that will return username from userid (as parameter)???01:23
+perlDreamermetanil: not yet :)01:24
@preactionmetanil, print WebGUI::User->new( $session, $userId )->username;01:24
+perlDreamerSounds like a good RFE01:24
metanilok i'll write my own.01:25
+perlDreamerpreaction: How about some golfing :)01:29
+perlDreamerbut it leaves you open to user creation attacks01:30
CIA-21WebGUI: colin * r5415 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (i18n/English/Macro_SpectreCheck.pm Macro/SpectreCheck.pm): adding the SpectreCheck Macro, per the RFE01:33
@preactionwhat does the SpectreCheck macro do?01:34
+perlDreamerIt says whether or not a connection could be made to Spectre01:34
@preactioni suppose that could be useful01:35
+perlDreamerI think it would be more useful displayed in the AdminBar.01:36
+perlDreamerWhat do you think?01:36
@preactiondidn't that RFE say something about displaying it during a commit?01:36
+perlDreamerit's 3-fold01:36
+perlDreamer1) When committing01:36
+perlDreamer2) When auto-committing (which is TBD)01:37
+perlDreamer3) Macro for displaying status01:37
cap10morganhmm, yeah, strace indicates that i'm sometimes getting segfaults something is retrieved from the db cache01:42
cap10morganclearing the cache and restarting doesn't help01:42
cap10morganbut switching to file cache does01:42
cap10morganyep, "select content from cache..." precedes the segfault every time01:43
cap10morganthat seems bad overall01:44
@preactionwhat does myisamchk say about the cache table?01:44
cap10morganit's in a bunch of different sites' databases01:44
cap10morgani mean, i could check anyway, but seems unlikely they're all affected01:45
cap10morgansays 1 client is using or hasn't closed properly01:47
cap10morganand usable but should be fixed01:47
cap10morganon 2 sites that exhibit the problem01:47
Samus_AranHow can I check why my contact form is not sending an e-mail to the To and Cc addresses ?01:48
+perlDreamerSamus_Aran: Either a mail server or a spectre problem01:49
Samus_Aranit only saves the data on the page01:49
Samus_AranperlDreamer: does it use sendmail to send it, or Perl directly, or what ?01:49
+perlDreamerIt uses what you told it to in the site Settings01:49
Samus_Aranis there a log file that would show an error ?01:49
Samus_Aranokay, will look for site settings01:49
+perlDreameralthough, if spectre isn't running, then the workflow to send the emails won't run either01:50
Samus_AranSpectre is fine now01:52
Samus_Aranafter adding the external IP01:52
Samus_AranI see in Settings under the Messaging tab "SMTP Server" set to "localhost".  it doesn't have options for port numbers or authentication01:53
Samus_AranI guess I will have to set up a localhost mail server to relay01:53
Samus_AranI don't think the server has one currently01:54
+perlDreameri'd bet you can type anything you want in there01:54
* cap10morgan is disabling Database cache on all his sites01:54
Samus_Aranthe mail server we use here requires user/pass authentication and a non-standard port01:54
* nuba sent a mail asking for the admin of http://chl.be/mascots/ to add gooey there01:54
nubaand now meet ..01:55
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Samus_Arangooey meat.01:55
nubathis is another irssi in my box, which will be my bot01:55
-!- GoeyOfSteel is now known as GooeyOfSteel01:55
nubabetter now01:55
nubainstead of the defunct project2501, which somehow wasnt very popular here01:56
nubaGooeyOfSteel: hello01:57
@apeironYour puppet master seems the taciturn sort.01:57
nubai added eliza to it once, let me check..01:58
nubahe was very talkative by then...01:58
@apeironOr she. :o01:58
nubathe idea was to somehow extract more info from people coming here asking for help01:58
nubato make troubleshooting easier, after the people had already been milked out of information about their issues :)01:59
nubait didnt worked as I thought it could, it was a good idea for a startup, unfortunately i forgot to add buzzwords like web2.0 and AJAX to help sell the idea, you know?..02:00
@apeironnuba, Depending upon the strategy you want to take with it (active vs passive seeding), you may want to take a look at the infobot code.02:01
+perlDreamerSamus_Aran: I'm guessing all that can be specified, but I have no idea how to do it.02:02
@preactionperlDreamer, Samus_Aran: no. it's not. it would be a relatively painless RFE though02:04
Samus_Aranthank you both02:05
Samus_Araninfobot is nice02:05
Samus_Aranonce it gets a large database, that is02:05
+perlDreamerSamus_Aran: submit the RFE, wait for it to be approved, then dump a little karma into it02:05
Samus_Aranis there some way to sort the menu items (flexmenu) ?02:06
Samus_Aranalso, where are the descriptions used, when you create a page ?02:06
Samus_Aranin the sitemap, or search or what ?02:07
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@preactionit's available to the template, so most anywhere. it's indexed too, so search yes02:09
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GooeyOfSteelGooeyOfSteel: breathe!02:12
nubaGooeyOfSteel: breathe!02:12
GooeyOfSteelnuba: Please go on.02:13
nubathere is eliza again.. now onto the wiki update things...02:13
* apeiron hands nuba the +5 mace of recalcitrant bot subdoing.02:13
@apeironer, subduing02:13
+perlDreameroh no, I think subdoing is much more appropriate for a bot02:14
GooeyOfSteelperlDreamer: Why?02:15
metanilto make a new template variable available in the template, where should i add it? like $var{newtemplatevar} = "val"; .. where should i do this?02:15
+perlDreamerbots are subs doing stuff02:15
nubaperlDreamer: you must prefix your phrases with 'GooeyOfSteel: '02:16
@apeironnuba, I have an RFE for your bot!02:16
nubain case you want to talk with GooeyOfSteel...02:16
+perlDreamerGooeyOfSteel: bots are subs doing stuff02:16
GooeyOfSteelperlDreamer: Did you think they might not be subs doing stuff?02:16
+perlDreamerGooeyOfSteel: That is the core concern of any programmer, but you already knew that02:16
GooeyOfSteelperlDreamer: Oh, I already knew that?02:17
+perlDreamerGooeyOfSteel: Of course.  Aren't you self-aware?02:17
GooeyOfSteelperlDreamer: Oh, I self-aware?02:17
@apeironperlDreamer, You've met Gumby?02:20
+perlDreamerLike the bendy green guy?02:21
@apeironNot quite.02:21
Samus_Aranwhat was Gumby's horse's name ?02:21
Samus_Arancan someone remind me what the item is called that is used for News ?  I accidentally got it removed (I cut it to paste somewhere else, then restarted WebGUI and it went poof)02:23
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Samus_AranI just realised that I only want one set of data, for both the events calendar and the news items, as there is overlap02:27
Samus_Arannot sure how I could do that, though02:27
+perlDreamerpull RSS/Ical from the Events Calendar as you news feed?02:28
Samus_Aranbasically one view of the data in month view, and another view of the data in most recent02:28
Samus_AranI mean, a plain list02:29
+perlDreamerThe calendar doesn't do a list view yet.02:29
Samus_Aranif I tell it to export an RSS, can I get a item-by-item listing from that using another plugin ?02:30
* perlDreamer decides to double check whether the calendar supports RSS before answering02:31
@preactionjust iCal02:31
@preactionbut you can make RSS out of any asset using shortcuts and template overrides02:31
+perlDreamerare we still planning a general RSS solution for Assets?02:32
Samus_Aranit seems that news and events would go together for many people02:32
+perlDreamerto replace RSSCapable and RSSFromParent?02:32
Samus_AranI mean, any upcoming event is a newsworthy item02:32
+Radix-wrkthe collaboration system has an rss mode doesn't it?02:34
@preactionSamus_Aran, please. if you have RFEs, post them to the RFE list. complaining about WebGUI's shortcomings here is counter-productive. patches are welcome.02:34
@preactionRadix-wrk, yes. same with Syndicated Content assets02:34
Samus_Aranany idea why the heading used for News is more prominent than that used by Calendar ?02:34
+Radix-wrkprolly just different css used in each02:35
+Radix-wrkyou can change that through the template easily enough02:35
+Radix-wrkIs the Thingy in 7.5.x yet?02:35
Samus_AranNews uses <h2> and Calendar uses <h1>02:35
+perlDreamerIt's just the default template02:36
Samus_Aranthey should both be of the same importance02:36
+Radix-wrkfile it as a bug then02:36
@preactionor edit the template and attach a package to the bug02:39
Samus_AranI just checked, and all other objects in my site are using <h2>, so it is the calendar that is doing it wrong02:39
Samus_Aranwhere is the template ?02:39
+Radix-wrkedit calendar, go to display tab and select edit next to the calendar template02:40
+Radix-wrkeasiest way would be to get rid of the title altogether tho :)02:41
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+Radix-wrklooks like you'd need to edit each different view of the calendar otherwise02:42
Samus_AranI updated the 4 views.  quite easy, thank you02:46
@preactiona note: if you edited the default templates, they can be overwritten by an upgrade. or you could submit the bug report and attach your changed templates02:47
@preactionor you could copy the default templates and make changes to your copies02:47
Samus_Aranhow do I stop an item from taking over the page ?  e.g. on my "News & Events" page I have a News section then a Calendar section.  if any of the items on the calendar are clicked on, such as changing the view, it leaves the page and never goes back02:49
Samus_AranI don't want an end user seeing any of the sub-pages02:50
Samus_AranI mean, single components02:50
@preactiondidn't we discuss this last night? I know radix shared your sentiments, but it's not possible to do what you want and still get any functionality02:53
@preactionokay, it is possible, but the resulting URLs would be horrendous02:54
@preactioni believe i gave examples using the collaboration system02:54
Samus_AranI'm not concerned about the URLs, I am concerned about the end user being yanked out of the page they are in the middle of and being confused about how to get the rest of the content on the page02:56
Samus_Aranif someone is scrolling down a page somewhere in the middle, and click a tab on a calendar, the rest of the page shouldn't magically disappear on them02:56
Samus_AranI haven't seen other web sites behave that way02:57
perlmonkey2Okay, I need to start joining the survey system into WG.  Is the wiki wobject guide + skeleton still the best way to learn how to create wobjects?02:57
nubaperlmonkey2: cool!02:59
@preactionperlmonkey2, yes, for the most part. i've been told that the Gallery is the pinnacle of WebGUI development (i was told to build it as such), so look there for style and ideas on how to do permissions and such02:59
perlmonkey2hah, cool until you realize how complicated WG is02:59
@preactionthe skeleton is a bit out of date. there are better ways to do some things03:00
perlmonkey2preaction: thanks :)03:00
@preactioni've been meaning to fix it, but no time (Gallery not done yet)03:00
perlmonkey2preaction: that is what I thought.  I've looked at code and the skeleton and they don't match up well.03:00
@preactionthe gallery, galleryalbum and photo assets do things the best way we currently know how03:01
perlmonkey2I don't see a Gallery?  Only the galleryalbulm and utility?03:02
perlmonkey2I don't see a photo either03:02
perlmonkey2not in the source tree yet?03:02
@preactionthey're in there03:03
@preactionlib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Gallery.pm lib/WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm03:03
perlmonkey2preaction: wow.....I just did svn update 1 hour ago and I'm not seeing that....let me re update03:03
perlmonkey2okay, found Photo.pm03:04
Samus_Aranany idea why, when I have "filter code: nothing" it still doesn't display ^c; as the company name ?  this is on a news item displayed as a weblog03:05
perlmonkey2but Gallery.pm isn't showing up ofr me03:05
* perlmonkey2 wonders off to try to fix his subversion checkout03:05
perlmonkey2preaction: you just submitted another version, yet I still can't get svn to get that file.  I can see it by browsing to the directory.  Strange.03:11
@preactionweird indeed03:11
@preactionmaybe try a full checkout in another directory?03:11
perlmonkey2hmm, reverted to a previous version then updated, and got it.03:15
Samus_Aranmore issues with the weblog display for news: it only displays 8 words, instead of a couple paragrahs, before the "more" link03:16
Samus_Aranwhere would I go to increase this limit ?03:16
Samus_AranI don't see anything in the template03:17
CIA-21WebGUI: doug * r5416 /WebGUI/ (7 files in 5 dirs): 03:18
CIA-21WebGUI: add: i18n for more Gallery templates03:18
CIA-21WebGUI: add: International macro now takes sprintf arguments as third and subsequent parameters03:18
CIA-21WebGUI: add: Keywords are now processed and given to the photo template, along with a url to search the gallery for the keyword.03:18
CIA-21WebGUI: add: Photos now track views03:18
CIA-21WebGUI: doug * r5417 /WebGUI/docs/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fix: multiple Gallery template fixes03:18
perlmonkey2Samus_Aran: Good question.  What's the template name and I'll look at it.03:19
Samus_Aranweblog under news03:19
perlmonkey2an asset search for weblog brings back one template "weblog".  Is that it?03:20
Samus_AranCollaboration System Template: Weblog03:20
perlmonkey2looks like <tmpl_var synopsis> is being set in the wobject03:21
+Radix-wrktmpl_var synopsis usually picks up everything until the first newline in the text from memory03:22
@preactionor up to the ^; marker (i think that's what it is)03:23
+Radix-wrk^-; ?03:23
@preactionyeah, that03:23
+Radix-wrkIt's something funny like that03:23
perlmonkey2the word synopsis shows up three times in the wobject.....I have no idea what is going on in any three.03:23
perlmonkey2only that one is an rss item.03:23
Samus_Aran"The ^c; beta web site is now up"\03:24
Samus_Aranthat is aklk it shows for me03:24
perlmonkey2$var->{"synopsis.label"} = $i18n->get("synopsis");03:24
Samus_Aranit also doesn't conver the ^c; into a company name, even with filters set to none03:24
Samus_Aran(this laptop keyboard sucks)03:24
+Radix-wrkis the c macro listed in your webgui.conf file?03:25
+Radix-wrkit might be disabled by default for some wierd reason03:25
Samus_AranI will look03:25
perlmonkey2Samus_Aran: Just ot make sure I'm lookin at the right part of the template, the very next thing after the synopsis text, is the weblogReadMore div?03:25
Samus_AranRadix-wrk: where would webgui.conf normally reside ?03:28
Samus_AranI have a $PREFIX/etc/WebGUI.conf.original, but don't see any WebGUI.conf or webgui.conf file.  I don't recall instructions telling me to create that one03:29
Samus_AranI created one for my domain and one for spectre and one for logging03:30
Samus_Aranperlmonkey2: <tmpl_var synopsis> \n <div class="weblogReadMore">03:30
Samus_Aranwhere would I find the code for: $i18n->get("synopsis");  being called in "lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Collaboration.pm"03:33
perlmonkey2That's whI have no idea how the synopsis is created.  I created a entry.  then changed the text of the entry.  The synopsis still shows the original ocntent even after I cleared the cache and forced a reload.  03:34
Samus_Arana simpler question: how do I create a page under another ?03:36
Samus_AranI don't get what a Folder is versus a Page Layout03:36
perlmonkey2you create page layouts03:36
perlmonkey2a page layouts contains assets03:36
Samus_Aranis a Page Layout an asset ?03:36
perlmonkey2they are what you might consider a "folder"03:36
perlmonkey2it will be added to the nav bar and will be a "web page"03:37
Samus_Aranand what is the WebGUI Folder ?03:37
perlmonkey2that can contain articles, weblogs03:37
perlmonkey2a real file folder03:37
perlmonkey2a virtual file folder03:37
Samus_Arana real virtual file folder03:37
perlmonkey2for assets03:37
Samus_Aranso how does it differ from a Page Layout ?03:37
+Radix-wrkit's more for displaying lists of things03:38
+Radix-wrklike lists of files or the like03:38
perlmonkey2where can I find posts to the collab in the database?03:45
perlmonkey2This is so weird.  I can not make the new submission to the collab system show up in the synopsys.03:47
perlmonkey2hmm, I'm guessing clearing the cache doens't effect all wobjects03:51
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Samus_Aranis there any way to rearrange the order of pages after they are placed ?04:14
Samus_Aranthe order in which they appear in the flexmenu04:14
Samus_AranI suppose it's not that hard to cut all the pages, then repaste them in the order I want04:16
* perlmonkey2 is still trying to figure out the synopsis. I just don't see what is happening in the code.04:18
perlmonkey2Samus_Aran: In the asset menu04:19
perlmonkey2you can drag and drop them04:19
perlmonkey2which effects how the nav asset displays them.04:19
Samus_Aranperlmonkey2: I just figured out something about the synopsis04:24
perlmonkey2Do tell :)04:24
Samus_Aranstrangely, when you edit the weblog entry, it only displays a subject and body04:25
Samus_Aranbut if you go to preview, it then shows a "summary"04:25
Samus_Aranwhich is the synopsis04:25
Samus_Aranso it isn't actually cutting it down, it seems04:25
Samus_Aranit was a field hidden to me04:25
* Samus_Aran goes to confirm it is only appearing after a preview04:25
perlmonkey2I'm in preview and don't see a "summary".04:26
Samus_Aranhm.  well it seems to be showing up now, but I know I didn't type in half a sentence before04:26
Samus_AranI'm not really sure what's going on with it04:26
Samus_AranI see it any time I go to edit now04:27
* perlmonkey2 goes to make sure his gui privleges are maxed04:28
perlmonkey2I wonder why I don't see it.04:28
perlmonkey2you are using the weblog template?04:28
perlmonkey2I only see Subject Message evne if I click preview04:29
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* perlmonkey2 hates when he accidently logs out04:31
Samus_Aranyes, using the weblog template.  however, I used another template at the start, and it imported data to the next template04:32
Samus_Aranand each time it did that, it seemed to randomly do things to the data04:32
Samus_AranI think that switching through all the templates messed up my article04:32
perlmonkey2In the database I can find the synopsis I see in the wobject table, but the complete post I can not find there.  I can't find it in any table.04:32
perlmonkey2I have no idea which table submissions are stored.04:33
Samus_Aranit just suddenly appeared for me when I went to preview04:33
Samus_Aranand now everything is fine04:33
Samus_Arantry switching to another template such as guestbook, when you already have a submission04:33
Samus_Aranor Q/A, etc.04:33
Samus_AranI tried them all before I decided to stick with weblog04:34
Samus_Aranand half of them displayed the entry strangely04:34
Samus_Aranincluding inserting a line break in the middle of a sentence, which was not visible in the web form editing the text04:34
Samus_Arane.g. "this is a sentence" in the edit box, and when it was displayed on the list of news items, it showed up as: "this is"04:35
Samus_Aran"a sentence"04:35
Samus_Aranit seems that the various templates are not using the same exact variables04:35
perlmonkey2Hah, I am pretty sure I know where the synopsis is coming from now.  PrepareView is a wrapper for the rss call. What you are seing on front is created by the rss feed.04:35
Samus_Aranor not using them in the same way04:35
Samus_Aranit would be nice if there were a way to change the date of the news items04:37
Samus_Aransometimes you want to post a few hours or days away04:38
perlmonkey2I think the Webgui structure is far too complicated to understand without documentation.04:40
perlmonkey2Trying to track down how this rss call is working is sending me all over the place04:40
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perlmonkey2And still, I can never find where synopsis is set.04:42
perlmonkey2this really sucks.04:42
perlmonkey2Well I'm not sure it even works as I'm still getting the synopsis from my first post even though I've changed it.04:46
perlmonkey2Well this sucks....Plone isn't very useful and I can never get WebGUI to work.04:47
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perlmonkey2Yay, found a problem in the webgui.log04:49
perlmonkey2looks like a permissions issue in my uploads directory.  04:50
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perlmonkey2 main::[[undef]] - Could not instanciate object using new on WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Collaboration. The result is undefined. at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Instance.pm line 32204:53
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manishmanishI'm new to webgui07:08
manishmanishSo, I'm d/ling, instsalling it now07:08
manishmanishmay have questions, but looks like an amazing promising system07:08
+Radix-wrkgood luck! :)07:08
+Radix-wrkIt's good.. installation can be awkward sometimes.. but it's worth it imho :)07:09
manishmanishare there any plugins to allow checking for Domain Names?07:10
manishmanishin the cms itself?07:10
manishmanishi know, it's a wierd question :>07:10
+perlDreamerWhat do you mean by "checking for Domain Names"?07:14
manishmanishas in, within the CMS, i can test if a certain domain name is taken or not07:15
+perlDreamerno, that's the job of a domain registrar07:18
+perlDreamerwe manage content07:19
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manishmanishok the million dollar question07:47
manishmanishjoomla vs webgui07:47
manishmanish<i'm evaluating cms's, and leaning towards web gui>07:47
manishmanishbut want to make sure right tool, right job07:47
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@apeironmanishmanish, As per your question, while I'm not going to offer advice one way or the other, I can offer a site that'll hopefully help you decide: cmsmatrix.org07:52
manishmanishok thanks apeiron07:52
manishmanishi appreciate that07:52
@apeironmanishmanish, I do have to concede that it *is* running WebGUI underneath (as you can see by looking at the page source) but there's a lot of info there.07:53
manishmanish'kay buddy, i'm sold07:56
manishmanishwebgui it is07:56
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Samus_Aransigh.  WebGUI is back to being slow, but more importantly it is locked again07:57
* Samus_Aran goes to find out what's wrong with Spectre this time07:57
GooeyOfSteelmanishman: make sure you spend time playing with live demos of both07:59
Samus_Aranthere doesn't seem to be any spectre errors07:59
Samus_Aranyet there are locks on various content07:59
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Samus_Aranand nowhere to approve/set that content as active08:00
Samus_AranI already committed all changes08:00
@apeironSamus_Aran, Are there any other users that have open version tags?08:02
manishmangooey i will08:02
manishmananyone here install this on a mac?08:02
@apeironmanishman, WebGUI yes.08:02
Samus_Aranapeiron: I am setting it up, there are no other users08:02
manishmanapeiron cool08:02
@apeironmanishman, If by Mac you mean OSX. :)08:02
manishmanos x08:02
@apeironSamus_Aran, hmm.08:03
Samus_Aranwhen it was locked before, it was because Spectre was broken.  but I have fixed the Spectre issue now, no errors about it in the log file08:04
Samus_Aranit was working an hour ago from work08:04
Samus_Arannow I am connecting from home (outside the LAN) and it's in slow motion and I can't commit changes properly08:04
Samus_AranPermission denied: This Asset is locked for editing under a version tag different from the one that you are using.08:06
Samus_Aranversion tags are all empty, and it says: You are currently working under a tag called: None.08:06
@apeironSamus_Aran, And under the "manage version tags" menu you don't see any tags, right?08:07
@preactionPending Version Tags in the right-hand side under the Version Tags icon of the Admin Console08:07
@preactioner.. manage pending version tags i think08:08
Samus_Aranthere are two autotags there.  I opened one of them and clicked deleted, but there are still two08:08
Samus_AranI have now deleted everything inside those two autotags08:10
Samus_Aranbut they are still there08:10
@preactionpending means that it's waiting on spectre. did you restart spectre? did it get its data correctly?08:10
@preactionif that worked, those assets shouldn't be locked anymore08:10
Samus_Aranunder the "Manage pending versions"08:10
Samus_Aranhow do I remove the two autotags ?08:10
nubaSamus_Aran: how's spectre's status, from the prompt?08:10
@preactionbut the pending tags will still be there until spectre gets a hold of them (no big deal really)08:11
@preactionif you want to skip spectre in versioning, go to Settings and under Content > Default Workflow choose "Commit Content Immediately". then spectre won't enter the equation at all08:11
Samus_Aran# perl spectre.pl --status08:11
Samus_AranUnable to connect to Connection refused08:11
Samus_Aransigh.  Spectre was working fine for hours08:12
Samus_AranI've restarted it a few times now, but it won't work anymore08:12
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@preactionwhat does cd /data/WebGUI/sbin; perl spectre.pl --run --debug say? 08:15
nubalaunching GooeyOfSteel's wiki watch feature....08:15
Samus_Aranpreaction: after launching Apache, you mean ?08:18
@preactionof course, apache, mysql. shut down spectre from the wreservice.pl script, and then run it using the command above08:18
@preactionit will show you a lot of stuff, but the stuff at the beginning is most important08:18
@preactioni suspect if it CAN connect, then something's going wrong with yoursite.com?op=spectreGetSiteData08:19
@preactionit should return a string of JSON that spectre will parse. if it's broken, it will show up as your home page08:19
@preactionsorry to cut in and run, but i've got a very long day ahead of me and i got no sleep last night. good luck08:20
GooeyOfSteelWiki: WebGUI Search System - Edited on 2/6/2008 11:30 pm by knowmad  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/webgui-search-system08:21
GooeyOfSteelWiki: WebGUI Statistics - Created on 2/6/2008 10:43 pm by knowmad  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/webgui-statistics08:21
nubafrom now on every wiki update gets posted here08:21
@apeironThat may be a lot of traffic.08:23
nubanope, check http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki?func=recentChanges08:23
nubawiki isnt that lively08:24
Samus_Aranpreaction: "perl spectre.pl --run --debug" didn't fail08:24
@apeironSo maybe notthat much.08:24
Samus_Aranwhy did you use --run and not --daemon ?08:24
nubanow, when people come here for help, and we them for 'please write what youve learned at the wiki', we'll all know if they did it or not08:25
nubawe ask them*08:25
@apeiron--run       Starts Spectre without forking it as a daemon.08:25
@apeiron(which means it won't detach from the terminal so you can see errors it gets)08:25
Samus_Aranwhen I used --daemon it was still printing errors to the console08:28
@apeironArguably, if spectre is dying for some unknown reason and isn't leaving anything in its wake in the logs, then you'll need to see if it's spitting anything to STDERR before going to the big garbage collector in the sky.08:28
@apeironPossibly before it fully dissociated itself?08:28
Samus_Aranseveral seconds later08:28
Samus_Aranlemme try again and see08:28
Samus_Aranit is working now, it got rid of those empty version tags08:29
Samus_Aranis there a proper way to stop it when it is started with --run ?08:29
Samus_Aranjust Ctrl+C ?08:29
nubawell, kill -9 PID does the job too :)08:30
@apeironI'd personally keep it running that way for a while and see if the issue you're experiencing with it dying intermittently comes up again.08:30
Samus_Aranwhat does this mean:08:30
Samus_AranWORKFLOW: Looks like WBQIpZfKZe1kDQZ5TG_6ZQ at priority 23 would be a good workflow instance to run.08:30
@apeironYou don't want to start it normally again and then several hours later have it die and then wish you had it in debug mode still. :)08:30
Samus_AranWORKFLOW: Preparing to run workflow instance WBQIpZfKZe1kDQZ5TG_6ZQ.08:30
Samus_Aranthat popped up when I wasn't doing anything on the site08:31
Samus_Aranokay, sounds fine08:31
Samus_Aranit is running in GNU Screen, so I can reconnect to the server later if it messes up08:31
@apeironspectre runs some stuff in the background independent of you doing anything on the site, like daily maintenance.08:31
Samus_Aranthe screen session will log 3000 lines back, though that won't be that long considering it's spitting out 3 lines every 3 seconds08:31
@apeironYou can have screen write a hardcopy log of your session.08:32
Samus_Aranbut the thing I pasted said "workflow instance"08:32
Samus_Aranapeiron: I had forgotten all about that08:32
* Samus_Aran goes to find the command08:32
@apeiron^a :log on08:32
nubascreen rocks!08:33
Samus_AranI just did ^a :log08:33
@apeironThe bits of work that spectre does in the background -- at least part of it -- are coded in modules. These modules are workflow activities. :)08:33
Samus_Aranand it started logging08:33
Samus_Aranthough it didn't let me choose a filename08:33
Samus_Aranhopefully I'll find it08:33
Samus_Arannuba: screen is one of the greatest inventions of all time =)08:34
GooeyOfSteelit'll bein the folder you were when you started screen08:34
Samus_Arannuba: I still kick myself for going years without trying it08:34
+Radix-wrksecond that.. I'm a big screen fan08:34
@apeironHm, where you started screen?08:34
Samus_Aranand that was years ago08:34
@apeironI thought it just put them in your home directory.08:34
GooeyOfSteelapeiron: anywhere08:34
@apeironAlthough I guess I have a tendency to start screen immediately upon logging in so...08:34
Samus_AranI use screen excessively08:35
@apeironSamus_Aran, I don't have logins on this FreeBSD machine outside of screen.08:35
Samus_AranI have all my screens with full English titles and often run out on Ubuntu (it limits to I think 36 screens)08:35
@apeiron36? wowser.08:35
Samus_AranI compiled my own on my last distro, but haven't gotten around to doing so on Ubuntu yet08:35
GooeyOfSteeli use screen by subjects - mail + im + irc - dev - sysadmin - remote consoles - etc08:36
@apeironIf you're using xterms, you may want to look into screenwm.08:36
nubaforgot I was in GooeyOfSteel's irssi, not mine :/08:36
Samus_Aranmy system is on for an average of 2 months at a time (before the nVIDIA driver leaks RAM and makes me crash or reboot)08:36
@apeiron(I make the suggestion of combining the two in xterms because of the high res you can get in xterm)08:36
nubadid you guys know scren can talk to a serial console directly?08:36
Samus_AranI use one Gnome-Terminal with transparency08:36
+Radix-wrkI've been using screen since about 1993 :)08:36
Samus_AranI didn't know screen existed in 199308:37
@apeironnuba, Interesting to know, though I've never had the need / hardware for it.08:37
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nubaits like kermit, only much nicer :)08:37
+Radix-wrkscreen has been around for AGES08:37
Samus_AranI use ICEWM as my desktop, and I fullscreen all my apps, including the terminal I'm in atm08:37
@apeironSamus_Aran, If you're familiar with vim's split screen modes, you'd find screenwm very comfortable.08:38
@apeironAlthough it's kinda.. fragile.08:38
Samus_Arandesktop 1 for my terminal apps, desktop 2 for Internet apps (web browsers, bittorrent), desktop 4 for word processing, 5 for GIMP08:38
Samus_AranI love ICEWM's keyboard control08:38
Samus_Aranbetter than any other environment I've used08:39
+Radix-wrkI used to use screen back when I was mudding at uni - was handy to appear to be working on my C code when instead I was attacking orcs in the mud I played in back then :)08:39
Samus_AranI was using DOS in those days08:39
Samus_AranI had Wishbringer, though.  fun text adventure08:39
+Radix-wrkI got my first unix account in early 1993 - discovered muds shortly afterwards - grades subsequently dropped 20%.. doh08:40
Samus_Aranand the original Amulet of Yendor.  precursor to Hack and NetHack08:40
Samus_AranRadix-wrk: heh08:40
+Radix-wrkfriend introduced me to linux around the same time08:40
@apeironSamus_Aran, You mean the original rogue?08:41
Samus_AranI gave up playing NetHack once I found Ancient Domains of Mystery.  I still love playing that.  I've been playing it off and on for I believe ten years now08:41
+Radix-wrkhe was running coherent unix around that time08:41
Samus_Aranapeiron: I don't know if Amulet of Yendor or Rogue came out first, but the Rogue I played was more sophisticated than AoY08:42
Samus_Aranapeiron: Hack came after AoY, and once it became open source and worked on over the net, it turned into NetHack08:42
@apeironSamus_Aran, I fooled around a bit with the original 4.4BSD rogue. Very, very basic. :)08:42
+Radix-wrkSorry.. I seem to have gotten the conversation offtrack with those comments, but it brings back memories :)08:42
Samus_Aranapeiron: I think I have that on my Palm Pilot, hehe08:43
Samus_Aranapeiron: it is... very bad.08:43
@apeironSamus_Aran, I have everything from the original rogue to recent versions of nethack, slashem, Linley's Dungeon Crawl, and many *bands installed here.08:43
Samus_Aranapeiron: have you never tried ADOM, or avoid it because it isn't open source ?08:43
@apeironSamus_Aran, Tried it. More a fan of the open source games. :)08:44
+Radix-wrktelengard ftw08:44
Samus_AranI haven't played NetHack for more than about an hour since I got into ADOM 08:44
Samus_AranADOM has a way better plot, extreme character development and moral development, numerous quests, wilderness maps and way more realism than NetHack08:45
@apeironRoguelike with a plot? No way!08:45
Samus_AranI dislike how NetHack literally had the kitchen sink.  all over the place.  even has Terminators and Barney08:45
Samus_Aranfar more realism in ADOM in that regard.  monsters all have very nicely written, imaginative descriptions08:46
Samus_Aranand if you decide on a career of evil, you will have few friends and the game is way harder08:47
Samus_Aranthe ending for evil is to become a Chaos God.  never come close to that ending, so difficult.  but without any spoilers or save-cheating, I beat ADOM as good08:47
Samus_Arantook me a few years =p08:48
Samus_Aranon a good game of ADOM, my character lasts about a week08:48
GooeyOfSteelanyone played a mind forever voyaging?08:48
Samus_Aranof playing too much each day08:48
Samus_AranGooeyOfSteel: not I\08:49
@apeironDammit. There's the inspiration to write my own game again.08:49
nubanowadays, there are good text adventures/interactive fiction for free08:49
@apeironRadix-wrk, See what you started?!08:49
Samus_AranI find that in ADOM, because of the character development and length of gameplay, you get really attached to the character (investing all that time in it), so the fights in ADOM get very epic08:49
nubaand there are good apps like Gargoyle now, which makes the experience much better08:49
Samus_AranI was looking at that game engine that encourages people to make their own games.  I forget the name, but it may have been "make your own game", heh.  some very creative stuff made with it08:50
Samus_Arantext adventures and graphical games alike08:50
+Radix-wrklucasarts scumm08:51
+Radix-wrkthose games rocked :)08:51
Samus_Aranlots of scumm players for *nix08:51
nubatheres a bunch of languages for writing interactive fiction too08:51
nubafor zork and alikes08:51
+Radix-wrkyeah, there's a scummvm for almost every platform known to man.. tis great :)08:51
Samus_Aranapeiron: ADOM has extreme character development.  not just stats (though there are dozens of things to advance), but the moral choices your character makes really expands the game08:52
@apeironSamus_Aran, Huh, interesting.08:52
Samus_Aranapeiron: and you get corrupted as time goes by, the closer you get to the source of the chaos that is seeping into the land.  corruptions are things like growing hooves, sulphuric acid dripping from your fingers, your brain growing several times larger, etc.08:53
Samus_Aranthe corruptions are both good and bad, and by the end of the game you are one messed up ugly f---er08:53
Samus_Aranyou really feel the effect of these corruptions, it makes you want to hurry up and get through the game 08:54
nubacontemporary interactive fiction, for free http://www.ifwiki.org/index.php/XYZZY_Awards_200608:54
Samus_Aranone of the most annoying is a dark aura.  creatures randomly run screaming from you in fear... and shopkeepers come and attack you for chasing away their customers =p08:54
Samus_Arannuba: /me checks it otu08:54
Samus_Aranapeiron: the one time I did beat ADOM, my character was such a mess of corruptions that my ending resulted in roughly:08:57
Samus_Aran"You make your way home to your village, where you become an outcast. Shunned by your friends and family, you die alone and miserable.  But you saved the world."08:57
@apeironheh heh08:57
@apeironAnd on that note, bedtime for me.08:57
Samus_AranI want to beat it again, with a "happy" ending08:57
Samus_Aranthere's also an ending for neutral characters, but I have no idea what it even is08:58
Samus_Aranapeiron: night08:58
nubaGooeyOfSteel: check hq.imaterial.org09:02
GooeyOfSteelhq.imaterial.org 09:02
nubanot working..09:02
nubaGooeyOfSteel: check hq.imaterial.org09:05
GooeyOfSteelhq.imaterial.org   Server: Apache/2.0.59 (Unix) WebGUI/7.5.2 mod_ssl/2.0.59 OpenSSL/0.9.7i mod_apreq2-20051231/2.5.7 mod_perl/2.0.2 Perl/v5.8.809:05
nubathis is from the HTTP headers09:06
nubai remember someone mentioned a while ago about having a bot with that here09:06
nubato help with troubleshooting09:07
nubathere it is09:07
nubaGooeyOfSteel: check rm -rf /09:07
GooeyOfSteelrm-rf / 09:07
Samus_Aranwhat exactly is "Manage pending versions." and why does WebGUI no longer just let me commit my changes for the last while all at once ?09:08
Samus_Aranthere is no commit button on "Manage pending versions", it just shows items09:08
Samus_Aranit was automatically adding version tags for me before, now it just has "none" as the version tag09:09
nubaGooeyOfSteel: check rm -rf /09:09
GooeyOfSteelrm-rf / 09:09
Samus_AranGooeyOfSteel: check http://localhost/09:09
GooeyOfSteelhttp//localhost/ 09:09
Samus_AranGooeyOfSteel: check localhost09:09
GooeyOfSteellocalhost   Server: Apache/2.0.59 (Unix) WebGUI/7.5.2 mod_ssl/2.0.59 OpenSSL/0.9.7i mod_apreq2-20051231/2.5.7 mod_perl/2.0.2 Perl/v5.8.809:09
Samus_AranGooeyOfSteel: check auk.ca09:10
GooeyOfSteelauk.ca   Server: Apache/2.2.3 (Ubuntu) PHP/5.2.1 mod_ssl/2.2.3 OpenSSL/0.9.8c09:10
Samus_Aranit's nice and fast09:10
Samus_Aranmy site has gone back to locking everything, and no way to approve it09:13
Samus_Aranthe Spectre is still running fine in debug mode09:13
GooeyOfSteelhow many workflows you have there?09:13
GooeyOfSteelcheck with perl spectre.pl --status09:13
Samus_AranI don't know what a workflow is09:13
GooeyOfSteelwell whats the result of "perl spectre.pl --status | wc -l" ?09:14
Samus_AranSuspended Workflows    109:14
Samus_Aran  Waiting Workflows    009:14
Samus_Aran  Running Workflows    009:14
Samus_Aranany idea why it would be suspended ?09:14
Samus_Aranwhat are "Manage pending versions" ?09:15
GooeyOfSteeli thought you may have been running into branch edits with lots of descendants. that happened with me once, total pain in the ass...09:15
Samus_Aranit keeps creating those and locks all my changes with no way to approve them09:15
GooeyOfSteelbut its not the case09:15
Samus_Aranthis is a very small site with only me as the user09:15
Samus_Aranthis is so frustrating.  I can't make any changes to the web site09:16
GooeyOfSteeli've no idea on what could be it09:17
+Radix-wrkGooeyOfSteel: check formsys.com09:17
GooeyOfSteelformsys.com   Server: Apache/2.0.58 (Unix) WebGUI/7.0.8 mod_ssl/2.0.58 OpenSSL/0.9.7i mod_apreq2-20051231/2.5.7 mod_perl/2.0.2 Perl/v5.8.809:17
GooeyOfSteelmaybe a bug, did you consider upgrading to the lates stable?09:17
+Radix-wrkGooeyOfSteel: check juga.org09:17
GooeyOfSteeljuga.org   Server: Apache/2.009:17
GooeyOfSteelRadix-wrk: GooeyOfSteel is me when I forget Im in another irssi09:17
nubai mean me09:17
Samus_AranI am on the latest stable09:18
Samus_Aranit's my first install since 4.x09:18
+Radix-wrkGooeyOfSteel: check www.juga.org09:18
GooeyOfSteelwww.juga.org   Server: Apache/2.009:18
Samus_Arannuba: you should run that irssi as a different user and set a different theme09:18
nubaRadix-wrk: oh i thought you asked me to check the site for some interesting content09:18
Samus_Arane.g. a red status bar09:18
+Radix-wrkI was taking advantage of your check script :)09:19
nubaSamus_Aran: its a different screen session, logged as a different user09:19
+Radix-wrkinterestingly enough - my home setup of webgui doesn't return anything other than apache09:19
nubabut yeah a different theme can help09:19
nubaRadix-wrk: you on WRE?09:19
Samus_AranGooeyOfSteel: check plainblack.com09:19
GooeyOfSteelplainblack.com   Server: Apache/2.009:19
nubayou can limit the amount of stuff apache spits out at the config09:20
Samus_Aranhow the hell do I commit "pending versions" ?09:20
+Radix-wrkshould be using 7.4.20 at home.. compiled wre myself09:20
nubathe lesser, the better09:20
Samus_Aranthere are no commit buttons and they're all locked09:20
+Radix-wrkSamus_Aran: it's all done by Spectre09:20
Samus_Aranwell why isn't spectre in debug mode showing any errors ?  =/09:20
+Radix-wrkSpectre is the one that processes all commits, workflows, background tasks, etc09:20
Samus_Aranit says the workflow is suspended09:21
+Radix-wrknothing in the normal webgui log file?09:21
* Samus_Aran checks09:21
Samus_AranAsset constructor new() requires an assetId.09:22
Samus_AranPass in object came back undefined for activity09:22
Samus_Aranabout ten of those09:22
+Radix-wrkHmm.. what version are you using?09:22
nuba'night guys, time to sleep, 5am already09:23
Samus_Aranlatest stable as of Thursday09:23
+Radix-wrknite nuba09:23
Samus_Aranmanual install, not the WRE09:24
Samus_Aranit works fine for hours, then does odd things09:24
+Radix-wrkI used to get some wierd errors back before I started to use the WRE.  Ones that noone else could reproduce :(  Was one of the main reasons I ended up switching to the WRE.09:25
+Radix-wrkSome debian perl module I'd apt-getted had was causing mysterious things to happen that the WRE and other systems weren't getting I suspect.09:26
Samus_Aranthere are thousands of systems out there running Apache, MySQL, Perl, PHP, etc. ... the WRE seems like such a bad idea09:26
+Radix-wrknot at all09:26
Samus_Araneffort should be put into a proper installer09:26
Samus_Arannot forcing people to give up all their services 09:26
+Radix-wrkThe WRE isn't perfect, but it's not hard to integrate it with other setups09:27
Samus_Aranrunning two copies of all the servers on the system is very inefficient09:27
+Radix-wrkAnd you can literally install a machine from scratch and have the wre up and running in under an hour.09:27
Samus_Aranand when the machine already exists, ...09:28
Samus_Aranit has a dozen web sites on it already09:28
Samus_Aranusing the MySQL database09:28
+Radix-wrkyeah, well there's no easy way to integrate those setups09:28
Samus_Aranand that's my point, it should be easy09:28
Samus_Aranthere's no reason the script can't just check the versions of the required components and let people know if their versions aren't okay09:28
Samus_Aranit already does this, but it is very fragile outside of the WRE09:29
+Radix-wrkwell I think the main problem is the lack of developers outside plainblack working on webgui09:29
+Radix-wrkplainblack is keen to add more power and flexibility in webgui09:30
Samus_Aranthe silly organisation I work for bought a very expensive rack mount server (which is sitting on a wood shelf).  perhaps I should just run WebGUI in a virtual machine09:30
+Radix-wrkI do09:30
+Radix-wrkwell.. not my production system, but I have a couple of virtual machine images I use for testing09:31
Samus_Aranseems a pain, though.  having two distros to maintain, and CPU/RAM inefficient09:31
+Radix-wrkFeel free to help out if you can - we need more people working on webgui and improving it09:31
Samus_Aranhow can I deal with the suspended workflow ?09:31
Samus_Aran"Last State: error"09:31
+Radix-wrkcan you force it to run?09:32
Samus_AranI don't know how09:32
Samus_AranI've restarted Spectre but it had no effect09:32
Samus_AranI'll try restarting Apache09:32
+Radix-wrkI'm not as familiar with the latest versions, but you should see a workflows tab in webgui09:32
+Radix-wrkand can see workflows that are stuck there and restart them manually09:33
Samus_Aranthat's only in the WRE, isn't it ?09:33
+Radix-wrkGo to Workflows09:34
+Radix-wrkand 'Show Running Workflows' on the far right09:34
+Radix-wrkYou can also get there by selecting Spectre from Admin Console it looks like09:35
Samus_AranI restarted Apache and then Spectre, and now it worked09:35
Samus_Aranthe pending changes went through09:35
Samus_Arancool that it works, but not cool that it seems to do this at random =/09:35
+Radix-wrkno idea how you'd find that out.. but you should at least be able to see in webgui itself if there are any suspended workflows09:36
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Samus_Aransigh.  it's doing the slow motion thing bad.  I clicked on the button to add a new user, and 2 minutes later it still hasn't added the user09:42
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--- Log closed Tue Feb 12 10:25:46 2008
--- Log opened Tue Feb 12 10:43:28 2008
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CIA-20WebGUI: graham * r5418 /WebGUI/ (lib/WebGUI/Macro/AdminToggle.pm docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt): fix: don't show Admin mode toggle when not in adminModeSubnets12:33
CIA-20WebGUI: graham * r5419 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Content/Setup.pm): fix regression: Site starter style displays incorrectly in IE12:33
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SDuensinMorning all.16:53
+Radix_nite :)16:59
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perlmonkey2Is the collaboration system hopelessly complicated or am I retarded for not being able to figure out how it works?18:08
ckotili have it commented out, bc its always been a pain in my ass18:15
ckotili uncommented it only last week , bc someone requested a 'blog' asset, and i immediately got workflow errors in webgui.log18:16
ckotilso i removed it yet again, and ill figure out something else for the blog18:16
@khennthe collab system is complicated, but once you understand it, it makes sense18:17
@khennwhat are you having issues with?18:17
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perlmonkey2khenn I thought it would be a good learning experiment to track down how the post synopsis is created and stored and to try to change its length.  I couldn't even figure out how it is created, let alone stored and then displayed.18:22
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nubahi folks18:43
nubaGooeyOfSteel is the new wiki watcher bot18:43
+perlDreamerwhere does he log to, nuba?18:44
nubaits a quick-n-simple hack, uses Tie::File to keep the array of updates in a file18:45
nubaand uses HTML::TreeBuilder to lookup the first <UL> in the content area of http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki?func=recentChanges18:46
GooeyOfSteelWiki: WebGUI Statistics - Created on 2/6/2008 10:43 pm by knowmad  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/webgui-statistics18:47
khenn_perlmonkey2:  synopsis is part of each asset.  It's stored automatically18:47
nubathat how it reports wiki activity18:48
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+perlDreamerthat's very bool18:48
@khennI'd recommend using a macro if you want to change the way synopsis is displayed.18:48
nubaGooeyOfSteel also has a "check" feature that may help while debugging problems of people that come here18:48
@khennyou'd have to change core WebGUI otherwise18:48
nubaGooeyOfSteel: check www.imaterial.org18:49
GooeyOfSteelwww.imaterial.org   Server: Apache/2.0.59 (Unix) WebGUI/7.4.19 mod_ssl/2.0.59 OpenSSL/0.9.7i mod_apreq2-20051231/2.5.7 mod_perl/2.0.2 Perl/v5.8.818:49
@rizenthat's sweet18:49
nubahi rizen 18:49
+perlDreamersounds like I'll have two competitors for Contributor of the Year :)18:49
@khennhow was lala land?18:49
@rizenstill in it, they gave me something18:50
@khenngave you something?18:50
+perlDreamerHe's sick as a misconfigured Spectre?18:50
@rizenyeah, got some gunk in my head18:50
@rizeni'm sure it will go away quickly18:51
@rizeni usually fight this stuff off pretty easily18:51
nubais there info on perlbot usage anywhere?18:51
nubaperlbot, usage18:51
nubaperlbot, help18:51
perlbot(fact) : tell (who) about (what) : (what) > (who) : learn (what) as (info) : relearn (fact) as (info) : phone (phone #) : shorten (url) : shorten it : search (keyword) : cpan (module) : docs (module) : perldoc -f (function) : jargon (term) : math (expr): fortune : flip : host (type) (record) : rot13 (text) : roll (die) : tempconv (temp) : scramble (foo) : 8ball (question) : slap (who) : diss (who) : top/bottom (number) karma : geoip (ip)18:51
nubaCIA-20, help18:52
nubaCIA-20, usage18:52
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wgGuest84i try to run the spectre and show me the next error: ADMIN: [Error] Couldn't connect to WebGUI site www.liz.com.conf at http://www.liz.com:80/?op=spectreGetSiteData.  Response: 500 Server closed connection without sending any data back19:07
wgGuest84what i must do?19:07
nubaperlbot: pastebin19:10
perlbot(see paste)19:10
nubaperlbot: pasteb19:10
nubaperlbot: paste19:10
perlbotPaste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl http://erxz.com/pb or http://p3m.org/pfn/perl and #Perl will be able to view it.19:10
nubawgGuest84: that wasnt directed to you19:11
nubaim just listing the available pastebins19:11
@apeironnuba, There's a 'search' keyword that you can use to find factoids matching a keyword.19:12
nubaapeiron: thx19:12
wgGuest84then what i do?19:13
@khenncheck your www.liz.com.conf to make sure your spectre settings are correct.  The 500 error could be anything really.19:14
nubais xdanger the one mantaining logs available at http://mentalhouse.net/irc/logs/webgui/ ?19:14
@preactionnuba, yes19:15
@khennis there anything in the modproxy or modperl error logs?19:15
@khennif not, bump the log level to "INFO" and see what it says19:15
@preactionwgGuest84, also check the webgui.log. you may also want to try accessing that URL it says to and see what it responds with19:15
wgGuest84no responds19:16
wgGuest84spectre.conf - POE::Kernel::_dispatch_event[1012] - ADMIN: Couldn't connect to WebGUI site www.liz.com.conf at http://www.liz.com:80/?op=spectreGetSiteData.  Response: 500 Server closed connection without sending any data back19:16
@preactionsounds like an apache problem19:17
@khennyeah, what does it say in the modperl log?19:17
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manishman!@#$ 19:22
wgGuest84this is error.log from apache219:22
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@khennIt's complaining about not being able to load Template.pm19:24
@khennnot sure if this is related19:24
@khenndid you make changes to it?19:24
@khenndoes it compile?19:24
wgGuest84i don't understand19:25
wgGuest84i don't make changes19:25
@khennwell your apache log seems to indicate that Template.pm can't be loaded19:25
wgGuest84i just install and don't see my pages19:25
@khennso either it's not there19:25
@khennor it doesn't compile19:25
wgGuest84mmm ok19:26
@khennhave you run setEnvironment?19:26
@preactionkhenn, the new webgui seems to try to load WebGUI::Asset::Template::TemplateToolkit and ::HTMLTemplateExpr automatically19:26
@khennie are you using the right Perl?19:26
@preactionwithout even having them in the webgui.conf19:26
@khennyeah that's a problem19:26
@preactionrenaming those to .pm.disabled or something usually works to fix this problem19:27
@preactionbut it's probably a bug19:27
wgGuest84and what i do?19:29
wgGuest84compile Template.pm?19:29
+perlDreamerpreaction: preload.exclude19:30
@preactionoh, right19:31
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+perlDreamerrizen: <whine> there are no pictures in the SCALE tbb posting </whine>19:35
@rizeni see pictures19:39
@rizendid you actually go into the posting19:39
@rizento see the comments etc19:39
@rizenthey don't show on the front page19:39
+perlDreamerNo. If you go to pb.com/tbb, there's no direct link to the post19:39
@rizenonly in the post19:39
@rizenclick on comments19:40
+perlDreamerOkay, got it.19:40
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+perlDreamerI've started teaching BartJol testing19:44
+perlDreamerHe's going to be a monster programmer soon19:45
@rizenoh yeah, ihave to send an email to koen to make sure he brings bart to the wuc19:45
@rizenbart really wants to come but isn't sure if koen will bring him19:46
+perlDreamerHe's gotta be there now19:46
+perlDreamerWho else is going to make pumpkin soup?19:46
manishmanumm guys19:53
manishmani have an issue here with mysql19:53
+perlDreamerWRE mysql or system mysql?19:54
manishmanwell i had mysql installed for one of my apps, then installed wre19:54
manishmanand now when i start the mysql instance for the apps, it keeps loading the wre data location19:54
manishmanso naturally19:54
manishmanwhere do change it back to my original data location?19:54
+perlDreamerYou can't run them both at once19:54
+perlDreamerone can only run one or the other19:55
manishmanwhich is fine PD19:55
manishmanhow can i tell it to load mysql from my original location tho?19:55
manishmanfor the data?19:55
manishmanit keeps loading data dir from wre location19:55
+perlDreamerI believe that if you shut down mysql, and replace the original /etc/my.conf and then restart that it should work.19:55
manishmanlet me try it19:56
manishmanit worked!20:00
manishmanthanks PD20:00
+perlDreameryou're welcome, manishman20:00
perlmonkey2I wonder how hard it would be to port Plone's KSS to Perl.  That is a really neat idea.20:00
perlmonkey2If I wanted to grok all the basics of wobject develoment, which is the best wobject to start studying?  I've looked at the wiki and skeleton, but I want to start fleshing out my knowledge.20:03
+perlDreamerThe Article20:03
perlmonkey2cool, thanks20:03
+perlDreamerThe individual Wobjects are so individual that it's hard to pin down one20:03
+perlDreamerbut the Article is the easiest.20:04
+perlDreamerThen Folder20:04
@rizencollab system is probably the most complex20:04
@rizeneither that or EMS20:04
+perlDreamerThe CS is the granddaddy of them all20:04
perlmonkey2rizen: the collab system made me cry.20:04
perlmonkey2I feared for my life.20:04
+perlDreamerit makes him cry, too20:04
@apeironperlmonkey2, One of the trials by fire of working for PB is that they drop you in the CS and tell you to write patches for it in your first few months. :)20:05
@preactionmmmmmmmm collaboration system20:06
perlmonkey2hah....I guess that is sink or swim with a 50lb weight tied to your ankle :D20:06
GooeyOfSteelWiki: IRC - Edited on 2/12/2008 11:56 am by nuba  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/irc20:06
nubathx :)20:07
@apeironnuba, Maybe make the bot autokarma people's names when they submit wiki changes, like the bots in #perl6 do for commits?20:07
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+perlDreamerperlbot: karma nuba20:08
perlbotKarma for nuba: 220:08
perlmonkey2wow, nice wiki post.20:08
nubai thought about that, but then people may have different nicks here on IRC and on webgui.org20:08
+perlDreamerit would involve more screen scraping, but people could keep their nicks in their WebGUI profiles20:09
nubait would make things simpler20:09
nubaotherwise the bot would have to manage nick maps20:09
nubadid it once, for a punchclock irc bot, its some extra hassle..20:10
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klnielsengood morning all :D  20:11
* Samus_Aran yawns20:12
Samus_AranJust woke up.20:12
klnielsenSamus - lucky!20:15
manishmanok i'm configuring webgui20:17
manishmanit's saying you can test the mysql instance by running mysql-test-run.pl20:17
manishmanwhere is this?20:17
+perlDreamerperhaps wre/sbin?20:19
nubamanishman: you could try 'find /data -name mysql-test-run.pl'20:20
nubabetter: /data/wre20:20
manishmanthanks nuba20:21
manishmanhrm. it's not with this distro20:22
@apeironLooks like it's part of the MySQL source.20:28
manishmanapeiron: Got a few minutes to get me past a roadblock? I've been at it for a while now20:31
@apeironmanishman, Will try. :)20:31
klnielsenquick question: does anyone out there have any themes to recommend?20:36
@preactionthere's a couple nice ones in the Get Add Ons section of WebGUI.org20:37
klnielsenI grabbed NonZero and Envision20:41
klnielsenthank you, as always, sir :)20:41
klnielsenHope you and Apeiron weren't here too late on Friday20:41
klnielsenSorry to be a bother, but where is the class icon of the page layout asset that is my home page?20:51
+perlDreamerAre you in Admin mode?20:51
+perlDreamerThere should be an editing bar.  X Edit Cut Copy Swoosh20:51
klnielsenI got through the first list of steps on how to change one's theme, but...20:51
+perlDreamerTo the left of the X is the Page Layout Class icon20:52
nubaicons are in /extras/assets/layout.gif and /extras/assets/small/layout.gif20:52
klnielsenI am trying to do the first step in the second list on this page:  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/how-to-install-a-webgui-site-theme20:53
klnielsenwhat page am I on when I am doing this?20:53
nubayou will be doing a "branch edit"20:53
klnielsenthe page where I uploaded the wgpkg?20:53
nubathat means that the asset and every descendent will be edit20:54
nubayou will click and select "branch edit" in the small icon to the left of the editing toolbar of the asset20:54
klnielsenwhich asset?20:54
nubathat only appears with admin mode on20:54
klnielsenam I on the assets page?20:54
nubayou can do that from the assets manager, or from browsing the site with admin on20:55
klnielsenbest practices are?20:55
nubago to the highest page in the hierarchy from where you want to apply the change, including it20:55
nubawhatevers suits you20:56
manishmanMYSQL CONNECTED!20:56
nubasuppose that /home is the root of your website. go to www.yourwebsite/home?op=switchOnAdmin20:56
+perlDreamerHack on, manishman!20:56
manishmanit's kind of a wierd set up20:57
+perlDreamerYou bridged your old data onto the WRE?20:57
manishmanno no20:57
nubalook for this image in the highest toolbar you see http://hq.imaterial.org/extras/assets/small/layout.gif20:57
manishmani got old working20:57
manishmanbut i went back to wre20:57
manishmansilly wre set up wouldnt configure mysql20:57
manishmanbut now it's fine 20:57
manishmani killed and restarted the database20:57
manishmanvery odd/finicky20:57
klnielsenack - got it, nuba.  Thank you.  Sorry I am so slow.20:58
nubayou can also browse to www.yourwebsite.com/home?func=manageAssets20:58
nubaand click in Home at the crumbtrail20:59
klnielsenthis is so neat.20:59
nubacrumbtrail is the "Root > Home" thing20:59
* klnielsen will be back after her meeting20:59
nubathe same context menu will appear20:59
klnielsennuba - got it.  I have problems when learning new terms for things.  I am very much a "thingie" "whatsit" kind of person.20:59
nubaheh its ok21:00
+perlDreamerklnielsen: You'll be happy to know that we have a Thingy asset in the works already21:00
+perlDreamerIf you tell us what a Whatsit is, we'll start planning it next :)21:01
nubarizen: google now has a forms feature for their spreadsheets, plus the API21:05
nubahttp://googledocs.blogspot.com/2008/02/stop-sharing-spreadsheets-start.html and http://code.google.com/apis/spreadsheets/overview.html21:05
nubaisnt this like "Thingy, Lite Edition" ?21:06
nubaklnielsen: just a warning, as far as I know, "edit branch" should be avoided if you have lots of descendants. I used it with ~3000 descendants (posts) and it wasnt a good experience.21:09
+perlDreamerIt needs to be a Workflow process21:10
nubai dont remember whats the reasonable limit, but probably someone else here can hint you on it21:10
+perlDreamerthat way long processes don't have to be inside the HTTP timeout21:10
@rizeni suppose it's like a mini thingy21:12
@rizenhard to say without using it21:12
* perlDreamer goes to the gym21:12
nubai wonder if it'll turn into a mini-access within google docs, in the same rank as spreadsheets, docs, presentations21:19
nubagoogle is already touting it "as a database and access data for another application via the Spreadsheets Data API"21:23
nubafrom that to a friendly interface for the everyman seems like a small gap to bridge to me21:24
nubapoor ms21:31
nubarizen: ive got the guy at http://chl.be/mascots/ to add gooey there.21:33
nubahe replied "Thank you for this report. Gooey is so cute that I couldn't wait to add it on my list. However, why don't you show it on your main page?"21:33
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nuba( http://chl.be/mascots/ is where wikipedia points to as external link for the list of open source mascots )21:36
nubaim passing on the reply cause 1) its not my main page, its yours, and 2) i agree gooey should be featured more proeminently, specially since now I have a bot called GooeyOfSteel :)21:40
klnielsenDoes anyone know if there is a way to make multiple feeds (on a syndicated content page) sort/display by date/time rather than source?22:47
@preactionDisplay tab > something about Interlaced22:49
klnielsenAs I have mentioned before, you are the best.  :)22:49
+perlDreamerpreaction++ rocks!23:06
@preactionso i have a Redirect asset with some enhancements: it also passes whatever query parameters it gets to the URL it's redirecting you to23:19
@preactionbut there's one problem: It doesn't work through a login23:19
+perlDreamerso if you have to login to the site it losses the query parameters?23:20
@preactionthe login form is given a "returnUrl" which points to the Redirect asset and adds query parameters. when the user logs in, they're redirected to the "returnUrl"23:20
@preactionso user goes to foo?param=bar; they're shown a form to login that now has a returnUrl of foo?param=bar, they login and for some reason they seem to be redirected to foo?param=bar BUT with the same POST form from the login23:21
@preactionso since it's a POST, apache2::request doesn't give me ?param=bar, and instead gives me the POST parameters23:22
+perlDreamerand you lose the redirect23:22
@preactioni'm about to write some LWP::UserAgent thing that will do automated testing of this. can't I set it to not follow redirects?23:22
* perlDreamer shrugs "I don't know"23:23
+perlDreamerBut recommends using Test::WWW::Mech instead23:23
+perlDreameror Apache::Test23:23
Samus_Aranback for another day of WebGUI battling, hehe23:24
@preactionPOST is not supposed to even BE redirectable... and there is a single HTTP code that says "Don't forward the POST, just use a GET on the URL I give you."23:24
@preactioni'm using that HTTP code now, and it doesn't work23:24
nubapreaction: $ua->simple_request will not follow redirects23:27
@preactionyeah, i'm getting Test::WWW::Mech now to see if it has a similar functionality23:27
nubaand you can make post redirectable with push @{ $ua->requests_redirectable }, 'POST';23:28
@preactionthat's probably only when using request(), doing the transparent redirecting thing23:28
nubaWWW;:Mech should have, as its just LWP::UserAgent subclassed iirc23:28
nubanever looked at Test::WWW::Mech tho23:29
Samus_Aranhm.  it seems like the slow motion thing is rather unpredictable.  it was happening yesterday from work for a bit, then was fine the rest of the day.  at home, it was super slow.  now back at work today, it's very fast again (without touching spectre or anything)23:30
nubadont request any rss feed past midnight, and keep the box away from water23:33
* Samus_Aran loved Gremlins23:39
Samus_AranI had a stuffed mogwai when I was a kid, very cute23:39
Samus_AranI think a dog ate it23:40
klnielsenOk, one more stupid question, sorry.  I can't seem to add a subscription to a calendar.  I type in a url (.ics) and nothing shows up.  I also remember seeing something about Spectre not running currently, but I don't remember where, nor do I remember where the neat start/stop/restart page for mysql/spectre/etc is.  It was there when I was installing, but that was Friday and so long ago.23:41
* klnielsen 's dogs eat everything23:41
nubaklnielsen: spectre is what will retrieve the ics file for your calendar23:42
nubaspctre does the fetching, mail dispathing, housekeeping, etc23:42
klnielsenack.  so how do I make sure that spectre is running?23:42
klnielsenWhat a good ghost it is.23:42
nubayou on the WRE? 23:42
nubafor me its a /data/wre/sbin/rc.webgui startspectre23:43
nubaand to check if its running, cd /data/WebGUI/sbin ; . /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment ; perl spectre.pl --status23:43
nubato test spectre: perl spectre.pl --status23:44
klnielsenI don't have rc.webgui in /data/wre/sbin23:44
@apeiron/data/wre/sbin/wreservice.pl --start spectre23:44
nubaoh i forgot to add, this is in a 0.7 WRE23:44
+perlDreamernuba: you need to update :)23:45
klnielsenI installed fresh last friday... 23:45
nubawill do, as soon as work plate gets cleaned up...23:46
klnielsenack.  That explains it. connection refused on 32133.  But why?23:47
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+perlDreamerklnielsen: Are you using SELinux perhaps?  Or some other firewall?23:48
Samus_Aranklnielsen: first off, try restarting Apache23:49
klnielsenactually, it is blocked23:49
Samus_Aranmine keeps getting bugged out and won't connect until I restart Apache23:49
@preactionwould it be a problem if WebGUI sent a 301 status for every type of redirect?23:50
klnielsenI forgot that this is in the sharenet (a walled-off portion of our intranet)23:51
klnielsensorry for all the hubbub23:51
nubapreaction: 301 is cacheable, once redirected, the browser wont ask for it again23:52
nuba302 is temporary, in the sense that the redirect can change, so the browser will ask for it again next time23:52
nuba301 = moved permanently, 302 = found23:52
@preactionright, but 301 means "re-send the POST to the new address"23:53
@preaction303 means "just make a Get request to the new address, do not re-send the post'23:53
@preactioni want 30323:53
Samus_Arananyone have any idea why the news section on my WebGUI says "4 replies" and then when you click on it, there is only one reply ?23:54
+perlDreamerklnielsen: You can always change the port, that's a completely arbitrary number23:54
+perlDreamerit has to be changed in BOTH spectre.conf and the webgui.conf file for your site23:54
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klnielsenok, thanks for that info.23:55
+perlDreamerSamus_Aran: Cutting, pasting and deleting posts may throw the count off.23:55
+perlDreamerso can uncommitted or archived posts23:55
+perlDreamer_I think_23:55
nubapreaction: rfc2616 says " Many pre-HTTP/1.1 user agents do not understand the 303 status etc. etc."23:56
nubayou may want to check the contemporary meaning of "Many pre-HTTP/1.1 user agents"23:57
nubaif any is still around ;)23:57
@preactionit also says they treat them like 302, which it also says most UAs treat like 303 (IE no re-POST)23:57
@preactioni'm still getting 301, so the point is really moot...23:58
nubayou changed it and is still getting 301?23:58
nubamaybe the browser cached it then23:58
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@preactionno, i didn't restart. i fixed it in Session::Http->sendHeader23:59
@preactionwhich, for some reason, doesn't allow you to set your own status code for the redirect23:59
nubayou'd probably need to restart the browser if it cached the 301 redirect23:59
--- Day changed Wed Feb 13 2008
perlmonkey2Why would the doman/../public/uploads directory be owned by nobody if apache needs to write to it?00:07
+perlDreamerapache's user is nobody?00:07
+perlDreamerby default00:07
perlmonkey2oh, not on my machine :)00:08
+perlDreamerexcept for WRE00:08
+perlDreamerIf that's a page of wiki instructions, please feel free to edit them to make them more generic00:08
perlmonkey2I have a meeting in a few, but I'll do that when I get back...../me notes to himself to participate more.00:08
+perlDreamerperlmonkey2: You do tons already by hanging out here and doing the survey.00:09
perlmonkey2I have a lot to learn about WG before I can attache my survey code to a functioning WG backend.00:10
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Samus_AranperlDreamer: it seems strange that it is keeping track of the replies manually, rather than simply querying the database00:16
Samus_Aranit only displays one reply, it should be doing the same query that comes up with the one reply00:17
@rizenit caches them for speed00:17
CIA-20WebGUI: colin * r5420 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm: add more POD to www_add00:21
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wgGuest78i have a question related to the colaboration systems00:22
+perlDreamerwhing it on out, wgGuest7800:23
+perlDreamerBefore I forget, the i18n system still has the old help in it00:23
+perlDreamerit doesn't have to be translated00:23
+perlDreamerI'm going work on pruning that out this afternoon00:23
wgGuest78I want to edit the default submission template and to pass the attachement loop to weblog template00:24
wgGuest78is it posible?00:24
nubai translated a few of those this past weekend...00:24
nubawhere is it going?00:24
nubawould it happen its been replaced by wiki?00:24
+perlDreamera snapshot was taken and dumped into the wiki, yes00:25
+perlDreamerbut only in English00:25
nubawell, non-english speaking users are going to need their help somewhere :/ ..00:25
+perlDreameryes :(00:26
nubais any strategy to preserve the existence of non-english help somewhere?00:26
Samus_Aranrizen: you mean, it caches them for inaccuracy.  is there some way I can get it to stop caching them ?00:27
nubaor are W3 sites supposed to work it out by themselves?00:27
nubais there*00:27
+perlDreamernuba: You'd really need to ask rizen.  However, the i18n is in SVN now, so once it is pruned out, it's not gone forever.00:28
@rizeni wasn't here when you were talking about the problem in the beginning, but the solution is to fix whatever caused them to be inaccurate in the first place, not to eliminate the cache00:28
nubarizen: is there any exit strategy for the internationalized help besides /dev/null ?00:28
Samus_AranI mean, when it ends up inaccurate, how can someone tell WebGUI to recalculate it ?00:28
Samus_Aranit looks quite unprofessional to the people I demo to that the very first news item is giving off incorrect information00:29
@rizenthat depends upon where the inaccuracy is00:29
@rizenlike i said, i wasn't here for that part of the conversation00:29
+perlDreameryou didn't miss anything there, rizen00:30
@rizenok then tell me how it got inaccurate in the first place?00:30
@rizendid somebody do some db manipulation?00:30
@rizenor is it the result of a bug?00:30
* nuba .o0O( gremlins )00:31
@rizennuba: currently no plan...thinking about allowing internationalized wiki entries at wiki.plainblack.com00:31
@rizenthats' the only thing i can think of00:31
nubaperlDreamer: i've exported the current translation, so if you prune it I still have the content here00:34
+perlDreamernuba, it's still in SVN, even if I prune it00:34
+perlDreamerI wouldn't purposely throw out reams of someone's hard work.00:34
+perlDreamerEven mine, since I wrote a big chunk of the English Help :)00:34
nubarizen: i will add a wiki w/ the translated help to webgui.com.br once I get it back up00:35
nubarizen: what should happen at some point in the near future00:35
wgGuest78perlDreamer, I want to edit the default submission template and to pass the attachement loop to weblog template.  Can i do it?00:35
nubarizen: btw whats the status of W3, as a project?00:35
+perlDreamerwgGuest78: Do you mean "copy and paste the attachment loop from the default submission template to the weblog template?"00:36
@rizenW3 died long ago, and this summer i rebuilt it as www.webguiworldwide.org00:36
@rizenwhich is just a conglomeration of webgui related sites00:36
@rizenwhich may or may not be translated into other languages00:36
@rizenif webgui.com.br isn't in there you should definitely get it added00:37
+perlDreamerThen, yes, I believe so.  Be sure you make a copy of the original weblog submission template and to use it, since future upgrades may overwrite your changes.00:37
wgGuest78i did it, but did not work00:38
nubawebgui.com.br is dead, needs to be relaunched at least as a thin site w/ a board, translation and wiki00:39
+perlDreamerdid you commit the template, and then tell your CS to use the new template, and then commit it, too?00:39
+perlDreamerwait a sec.00:40
+perlDreamerNo, that won't work.00:40
+perlDreamerthe templates have different sets of variables.00:40
+perlDreamerThe weblog template is for displaying entries00:40
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+perlDreamerthe Submission template is for making entries.00:41
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wgGuest33perlDreamer, excuseme i have a problem with my internet.  Can you repeat me again your anwser about my question related to copy code from default submission and paste it in weblog template?00:44
+perlDreamerIt won't work00:44
+perlDreamerthe templates have different sets of variables.00:44
+perlDreamerThe weblog template is for displaying entries00:44
+perlDreamerthe Submission template is for making entries.00:45
wgGuest33it not posible that it woks00:45
+perlDreamerNa va a funciona, ni un poquito.00:45
+perlDreamerIt won't work.00:45
wgGuest33do you speak spanish?00:46
+perlDreamerSomewhat.  Just common spanish, nothing technical.00:46
+perlDreamerDe nada00:47
+perlDreamerSi es algo que queries en WebGUI, puedes hacer un "request" aqui:00:47
nubaits only after you write a bot to monitor wiki activity that you notice how little activity there is going on..00:48
wgGuest33gracias perlDreamer, lo tendré en cuenta00:49
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nubafor the latest 50 activities at the wiki, ~34 were by koen, elnino, knowmad and faino00:53
nubaonly 13 people total00:54
nubadetails http://webgui.pastebin.com/m7867c38f00:55
@rizennuba..you should write some patches for the wiki to make it easier to expose that sort of stuff00:57
@rizenmaybe RSS feeds or XML or JSON or something00:57
@rizeni'll accept them00:57
+perlDreamerwiki statistics00:57
+perlDreamerMost frequent creators, most frequent editors00:57
Samus_Aranrizen: to answer your Q, the "Replies" listed on a news item got out of whack.  it says there are 4 replies when there are 1.  no manual db manipulation, just adding/removing/changing template/deleting replies and news items00:57
@rizenyeah, but not just a page that displays it, but also feeds that can be used for external data manipulation00:58
nubawe discussed exposing the wiki's recent changes with RSS then with JSON yesterday00:58
@rizenSamus_Aran: what version were you running when this problem occured?00:58
@rizennuba: cool...i'm just letting you know in advance that i'd approve any such patches automatically00:59
@rizeni think they're all great ideas00:59
nubai hope that, with debian increasing webgui exposure, we'll see some growth in community activity soon01:00
Samus_Aranlatest stable01:00
@preactioni wasn't planning on using the wiki itself, but just making another template and using a shortcut01:01
Samus_Aranrizen: latest stable, manual install on Ubuntu 6.06 LTS01:01
@rizensamus_aran: do you mean latest stable when you had the problem, or the current latest stable?01:02
@rizenif you mean current then submit a bug report about it01:02
@rizenand we'll get the problem fixed01:02
@rizennuba: the trade shows we're attending should help too...did you read today's black blog?01:03
+perlDreamerSamus_Aran: but we'll need to know how to reproduce the problem01:03
@preactionSamus_Aran, are those replies in the Trash?01:03
Samus_Aranlatest stable as of Thursday last week.  have there been any releases since then ?01:03
Samus_Aranpreaction: I don't think so.  will check01:03
@rizenno new releases since then01:03
nubarizen: checked it now, good news01:04
nubapics appear only when I click on "comment (0)" 01:05
nubai know its nitpicking, but having pics behind such link - comments (0) - is a bit counter intuitive, unless you actually did read the text entirely and paid attention that there are pics somewhere to be seen.01:07
nubaand most people just scan their way thru the texts01:07
@rizendon't care01:08
@rizenfor people that are just scanning and not reading, the pictures out of context won't make sense anyway01:08
@rizenplus most people will find the black blog through the news or from an rss feed01:08
@rizenwhich will take you directly to the post01:08
@rizenwhich contains the pics01:09
* perlDreamer thinks the title should link to the whole article.01:09
nubaheh i happen to be the minority that checks www.plainblack.com/black-blog directly01:09
nubain the minority*01:09
Samus_Aranpreaction: sorry for the delay, no, there's nothing in the trash01:14
* rizen hates perlDreamer for being annoyingly correct01:16
+perlDreamerI'm your conscience, rizen01:19
+perlDreamerp.s. Don't forget to buy Sarah roses for Valentine's Day.01:20
+perlDreamerand cook her breakfast in bed01:20
@rizenalready got her 2 lbs of customized hershey's chocolate, and sent it to her work so that she gets lots of co-worker attention, which she really craves01:24
@rizenbtw...i encourage you guys to check out gooey on the go...added a lot more gooey pics from scale01:26
@preactionokay. so now I'm thinking that both Firefox and Safari are mishandling my 303 Response and re-sending the POST to the redirect's Location01:26
@rizenwhat is a 303?01:26
@preactionbecause it can't be Apache01:26
@preaction303 is See Other01:26
@rizeninteresting...haven't heard of that before01:26
@preactionit's supposed to function thus: you 01:26
@preactionPOST your login; it sents a 303 Redirect and you simply GET the location, not re-post01:26
@preactionlike a 301 redirect is supposed to do01:27
+perlDreamernice pictures :)01:27
@rizendid you try it with a 301 first01:27
@preaction301 is what webgui sends all redirects as, until i changed it because i thought that was the problem01:27
@preactioni changed it to accept setStatus like I thought it would01:28
@rizenmaybe your browser doesn't know what to do with 30301:28
@rizenso you should just stick with 30101:28
@preactioni'll try 301 with LWP::UserAgent, but LWP::UserAgent does the right thing (the thing I expect) when it's a 303 response. if it does the right thing on a 301 response i'm going to start hurting things01:29
@preactionok, weird things going on now, but i have something to work with (7 redirects in a row for some reason...)01:32
nubapreaction: 7 redirects in a row is the hard limit set on LWP::UserAgent01:33
nubaif youre getting 7 then its most like because LWP::UserAgent didnt follow the 8th01:34
@preactionit's probably a loop because it keeps re-posting the form because it's 30101:37
@preactionposting a form with a returnUrl gets you redirected to the url in returnUrl, 301-style. then the new url you're at reads the form (which contains a login POST), logs you in, and returns you to the returnUrl01:37
nubapreaction: if its of any use to you, when dealing with headers I use firefox's livehttpheaders extension a lot01:38
@preactionyeah, livehttpheaders doesn't show any of these redirects01:38
nubagood for capturing, replays, tweaks, etc01:38
nubayou've seen this one, right? http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec10.html01:41
@preactionit appears that the status code isn't the only thing that's relevant. the status description is also parsed01:41
@preactionif I send 301 Moved Permanently, I break WebGUI. if I just send 301 Redirect, everything works01:43
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Samus_Aranwhy is there no sitemap in WebGUI ?  it simply uses the menu, which doesn't even display the page titles01:46
Samus_AranI thought I remembered an actual sitemap in 4.x, though I'm not sure01:46
+perlDreamerSamus_Aran: It's just a navigation asset, with a specific template.01:46
Samus_AranperlDreamer: which is my point.  a sitemap should have more than just the menu items01:47
+perlDreamerthen use a different template than the default :)01:47
Samus_Aranat the very least the page titles, possibly the date the page was updated and by who01:47
+perlDreamerI'm not sure that those are possible with the Navigation Asset, you'd have to check the online help for that list.01:48
Samus_AranperlDreamer: I didn't see any template that would display titles01:48
@preactionhe meant make your own01:48
+perlDreameryou _can_ add new templates?01:48
Samus_Aranand a few of the ones I did try were broken so that I had to click back to even use the site anymore.  like the horizontal menu one, had no edit controls anymore01:48
+perlDreamerpreaction: Get out of my head, you HTTP header hacker!01:48
+perlDreamerhorizontal menu is for site navigation, not sitemaps01:49
Samus_Aranpreaction: I realise I can add one, but what I don't understand is why there is no sitemap in WebGUI after almost a decade01:49
Samus_Aranpreaction: I was trying each to see what they looked like01:49
+perlDreamerIf you'd like to contribute a beautiful sitemap template, it could be added.01:50
+perlDreamerand there did use to be a sitemap asset in wG 501:50
nubaSamus_Aran: the old sitemap is easily replaced with the new navigation 01:50
@preactionSamus_Aran, there is a site map that people use and find adequate. just because it is not adequate to you does not mean that WebGUI is inherently broken. this is an open-source project, patches are welcome.01:50
Samus_Arandoes the menu asset thing currently being used provide the variable for the page title ?01:51
+perlDreamerSamus_Aran: ?op=viewHelp01:51
@rizenthey all provide the variable for not only page title01:51
@rizenbut date revized, created, synopsis and more01:51
@rizenmethinks you don't want help...you want someone to do it for you01:51
+perlDreamerto be precise: http://www.webgui.org/wg/contribute?op=viewHelp;hid=navigation%20template;namespace=Asset_Navigation01:52
Samus_Aranrizen: no, I am currently creating a site map template.  I found the page.menuTitle and am checking what to change it to01:56
Samus_Aranwhich is in the URL perlDreamer provided.  thank you01:57
+perlDreamerSamus_Aran: If you poke around in the wiki, and in the online Help that comes with WebGUI, you'll find a lot of useful info.01:57
+perlDreamerafter I win the lottery, I need to learn javascript and then write the template editor with smart variable insertion.01:59
nubathat'd be interesting. expose JSON instead of processing, then fill in the DOM01:59
Samus_Aranit's starting to look like a site map.  just need to drop a few more variables in02:00
nubai wonder if thats really practical02:00
+perlDreamerIt may just be a MCE plugin02:00
+perlDreamerthat lets you pick from a list of available variables02:01
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+perlDreamerif it was smart, it would add in template end tags automatically02:01
nubayou could just as well change templates on the fly02:01
Samus_Aranexcept the template editing page doesn't display the original page anymore02:01
+perlDreamerif it was really smart, it would be context sensitive and change the set of variables depending on if you're inside loops or not.02:02
Samus_Aran(unless you're editing a template for the template editing page)02:02
nubagoing offline, nite guys02:03
Samus_Aranwhere does the data in page.synopsis come from ?02:06
+perlDreamerfrom the synopsis entry in the Asset02:06
Samus_AranI don't recall seeing one of those.  *goes to look more closely*02:06
+perlDreamerexcuse me, it's the "summary" entry02:07
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+Radix-wrkmornin' all :)02:08
+perlDreamerYo, Radix-wrk.02:08
Samus_Aranwhy did WebGUI choose to use JS for opening pages in new windows, rather than a frameset control [which works in all browsers]02:15
Samus_Aran+ ?02:15
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@preactiontarget="" is not XHTML 1.0 Strict compliant02:17
Samus_AranperlDreamer: that page you gave me doesn't list a last modified date.  is this variable available from somewhere else, or just not exist ?02:17
Samus_Aranpreaction: the most common web browser (MSIE) does not support XHTML02:17
@preactionwe don't fix IE bugs02:18
Samus_Aran4.01 Transitional makes a lot more sense02:18
@preactioni'd rather not get into yet another philosophical debate about HTML and XHTML. #css is a much better channel for those02:18
Samus_Aranif a textual user agent tries to use the site and reaches one of those links, they will see <a href="#"> which is completely broken for them02:19
Samus_Aranyou mean #web02:19
@preactioni agree that XHTML 1.0 Strict is not the optimal doctype for anything. I would prefer WebGUI to use HTML 4.01 Strict02:19
Samus_AranCSS is for CSS02:19
@preactionno. i mean the happy people at #css love these kind of debates02:19
Samus_Aran*#CSS is for CSS02:19
Samus_AranI've never been in there02:19
Samus_AranI am talking about end user functionality02:19
Samus_AranMSIE doesn't support XHTML at all.  user agents without Javascript can not use the site02:20
Samus_Aranis it not possible to at least use the URL in the JS link, so that non-JS aware browsers will go to it in the current page (which is what happens with non-frameset aware browsers with target="") ?02:22
Samus_Aransomething like <a href="http://real_url/" onClick...>02:22
Samus_AranI tend to avoid JS, and especially avoid opening links in new windows, so I'm not too sure if that can work or not02:23
@preactiononce again: this is not the place to request features02:23
Samus_Aranthat was a question there02:25
+perlDreamerSamus_Aran: The navigation asset doesn't have such a variable right now.  If you'd like one, please submit an RFE.02:29
Samus_AranperlDreamer: okay, thank you02:31
CIA-20WebGUI: colin * r5421 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Navigation.pm: clarify that synopsis==summary02:31
+perlDreamerIt's a pretty simple one to add, I wouldn't doubt that it would be approved.02:31
Samus_AranI tried adding the page.synopsis to a title="" for the <a> tag, but it is popping up the name of the variable.  is there something a variable needs to be contained inside ?02:32
Samus_Aranoh sorry <tmpl_var >02:33
Samus_Aranmissed that with all the < > around there02:33
+perlDreamertitle="<tmpl_var page.synopsis>" should work fine02:34
+perlDreamerif it doesn't please submit a bug report, or, you could try the Design Forum on pb.com02:34
Samus_Aranit's working fine02:35
Samus_AranI just missed that it needed a container02:35
Samus_Aranit pops up a description of the page in the sitemap, if one is available02:36
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danny_mkHello everyone02:52
danny_mkis there a way to pass parameters to a url in a http proxy?02:52
danny_mkurl to proxy:  http://www.mywebsite.com/^FormParam('id');02:55
@preactionhttp://webgui.pastebin.com/d3c3ef1bf <- here are the headers from the request chain that I set off02:57
@preactionthe returnUrl is sent with the POST data, but the Location header from the response is completely wrong02:58
@preactionit's not the Location that my debug code tells me is being sent02:58
@preactioni'm beginning to wonder if it's somehow due to keep-alive reusing the WebGUI session02:59
@preactionbecause my script that uses LWP::UserAgent to send the same request does the right thing03:00
@preactionbut it can't be that because WRE's mod_perl turns off KeepAlive03:02
@preactionit seems to happen if I send a redirect to the same location03:16
Samus_AranI just added a reply to a comment on the news items (the one where it shows "4 replies" for one reply), and now it shows "7 replies" for the two03:22
Samus_Aranadded a reply to the second reply, and it went up to "8 replies"03:24
Samus_Aranit seems a single reply is worth anywhere from 1 to 4 replies for the counter03:25
+Radix-wrkSounds like a bug to me.. submit it :)03:26
Samus_Aranis there a page handy explaining how to install a wgpkg ?03:30
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@preactionAsset Manager there's a Packages section below the assets, there should be a form input for importing a package in there03:31
Samus_Aranare they zip files (if I wanted to look at the source) ?03:31
@preactionthey're tar files03:32
danny_mkHi preaction03:37
danny_mkgot a quick question for you.03:38
@preactionis it the question you asked at 18:55 about parameters to a URL in an HTTP Proxy?03:38
danny_mkit is about writting an activity03:38
danny_mkI can't find any good documentation on workflow and activities03:39
danny_mkbut I will have to write about 12 of them03:39
danny_mkis there a good example anywhere or do I have to read through the code?03:39
+Radix-wrknothing in the wiki?03:40
danny_mkcheck it out03:40
@preactionmost likely you'll have to read through the code03:40
+Radix-wrkthere's a workflow skeleton03:41
danny_mkI know03:41
danny_mkI got that03:41
danny_mkI think you mean an activity skeleton right?  I did not find any workflow skeletons 03:42
+Radix-wrkthey're one and the same I think03:43
@preactionyou don't write workflows. workflows are made from the user interface03:43
@preactionthey contain activities, which you can write03:43
danny_mkthat is what I thought.  I write the activity right?03:43
danny_mkhowever, how do I run the activity at a certain time03:44
danny_mkdon't I use the workflow for that?03:44
@preactionyou create a workflow that has that activity03:44
danny_mkand that is where I get lost03:44
danny_mkOK, once I ad my own activity and include it in my config file03:45
+Radix-wrkWorkflows can run multiple activities03:45
danny_mkthen the activity should show up when I create a new workflow03:45
danny_mkcool.  OK, got it.03:46
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danny_mkhow about the http proxy question?03:47
danny_mknot to push my luck to much :-)03:47
danny_mkthere is no way to pass it parameters huh?03:48
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@preactionlesson learned today: Redirecting an HTTP UA to the same URL as you POSTed to will POST again regardless of the redirect status code05:56
@preactionso can anyone think of any possible way that making all default login forms POST to the root of the site would backfire on me?05:57
@preactioni'm going to be writing a bunch of WWW::Mech tests to make sure, of course05:57
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CIA-20WebGUI: graham * r5422 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/docs/upgrades/_upgrade.skeleton: Merge 7.5 upgrade skeleton changes09:29
CIA-20WebGUI: graham * r5423 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Start of 7.4.23 dev09:29
CIA-20WebGUI: graham * r5424 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fix CalendarUpdateFeeds causing warnings in logs09:29
CIA-20WebGUI: graham * r5425 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (6 files in 4 dirs): package importing fixes09:29
CIA-20WebGUI: graham * r5426 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/VersionTag.pm): fix rolling back version tags with an asset with a later revisionDate than a child09:29
CIA-20WebGUI: graham * r5427 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/docs/ (3 files in 3 dirs): added tab fields to dataform default email template09:29
-!- Radix-wrk changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.23-stable | WRE 0.8.1 ] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org | Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com/ | WebGUI to be included in default Debian distribution09:29
CIA-20WebGUI: graham * r5428 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (lib/WebGUI/Macro/AdminToggle.pm docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt): fix: don't show Admin mode toggle when not in adminModeSubnets09:29
CIA-20WebGUI: graham * r5429 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.4.23 release09:29
CIA-20WebGUI: jt * r5430 /releases/WebGUI_7.4.23-stable: Release 7.4.23-stable09:29
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nubais anyone already playing with the gallery asset?15:56
nubai cant find where to add albums15:56
nubahm, manually appending 'func=add;class=WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::GalleryAlbum' to my gallery asset's URL16:00
BartJolah, i should know, I've made the translations16:05
BartJolbut, since that is a mindless job, I don't have it right away16:05
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BartJolnuba, i found this variable for the adding of an album: helpvar url_addAlbum16:31
BartJolbut I don't have 7.5 installed, so I can't look for it16:32
nubathx BartJol. now I wonder if this gallery is currently usable at all or if im doing something wrong16:32
BartJolwell, sometimes the wobject had to be submiited via the version tag first, before items can be added to it, have you submitted the version tag?16:33
nubaim running SVN HEAD, maybe I should go back to the 7.5.1 release to test this..16:34
BartJolI wouldn't know... sorry16:34
nubanp, thx for the pointer anyway16:35
Radix__cool util - http://www.yougetsignal.com/tools/web-sites-on-web-server/16:49
Radix__I found JT's RareBlack.com server :)16:49
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perlmonkey2Anyone else use lifera?  I can never get it to update the tbb.17:41
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perlmonkey2wgGuest57: howdy howdy17:58
wgGuest57how to do for i get a data from the database in a macro?17:59
perlmonkey2from WG tables or your own custom tables?18:00
wgGuest57of webgui18:01
perlmonkey2the AOIRank Macro is a great example of a simple DB query to WG tables.18:01
perlmonkey2de nada18:02
wgGuest57me sirve mucho18:03
wgGuest57porque no sabia el link18:03
wgGuest57y necesitaba un ejemplo18:03
perlmonkey2ah....My Espanol is extremely pico18:05
perlmonkey2I'll use a translator :D18:05
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wgGuest57sabia = know18:07
wgGuest57ejemplo = example18:07
BartJolhi rizen thanks for the mail to Koen :)18:07
perlmonkey2wgGuest57: just got that from babelfish :)  Glad I could help (and I really need to study my Spanish more).18:08
wgGuest57i could you helps with spanish18:10
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perlmonkey2I think the kind of help I need requires long hours spent at an online tutorial.  18:12
perlmonkey2I remember most of the rules, but I have forgotten a lot of nouns and verbs.18:12
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wgGuest83Is there any way to setup webgui to clean cache automatically18:17
wgGuest57yo creo = i think so18:17
ckotilyou can schedule a workflow to do it18:17
ckotilor add a cronjob to delete /tmp/filecache (not sure if this is where it actually resides)18:18
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BartJoloh and besides my horrible image editing, this is what I have in mind for the webguiunderwear:18:25
BartJolfluffy wastbands are a must18:26
@rizenthat's just nasty18:26
BartJolyeah, i said, my image editing is horrible18:27
BartJolI will try to make a female version too18:27
BartJolthat might be less appaling18:28
perlmonkey2BartJol: That is *awesome*!18:28
CIA-20WebGUI: graham * r5431 /WebGUI/docs/ (3 files in 3 dirs): really added tab fields to dataform default email template18:29
CIA-20WebGUI: graham * r5432 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/ (2 files in 2 dirs): oops18:29
CIA-20WebGUI: jt * r5433 /translations/ (230 files in 23 dirs): fixing problems18:29
CIA-20WebGUI: jt * r5434 /translations/polish: fixing problems18:29
BartJolbut I have to go now18:33
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@rizennuba: you got your wish, gooey is now on the front page of webgui.org18:39
+perlDreameraw, and he's blushing because we caught him coming out of the shower with his towel on18:39
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@apeironI hereby volunteer to be the winged toga-wearing gooey mascot at the next WUC.18:42
+perlDreamerI second the motion (to avoid volunteering myself)18:43
@rizeni hereby volunteer perlDreamer to be the cthulu gooey mascot at the next wuc18:43
* perlDreamer resolves not to shave and to die himself green from head to toenails18:44
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wgGuest24There is some function in webgui I handed the key of the user, which is encrypted and stored in the database?18:47
nubawhen i first saw the halloween version of gooey in the webgui chinese site, i thought it was an hybrid of gooey and a chinese dragon18:48
nubarizen: cool about gooey there18:49
wgGuest24the password, i mean identifier of table authentication18:49
+perlDreameryes, it's stored as a base64 MD5 hash18:49
wgGuest24yes, i know, but i need in a macro,18:50
wgGuest24in webgui there some functon that do this?18:51
wgGuest24or i have to construct?18:51
+perlDreamerIt's a simple 1-line call : $encryptedPassword = Digest::MD5::md5_base64($password);18:51
+perlDreamerSo you'll have to do it yourself, but it's very easy to do.18:52
+perlDreamerYou should also check the wiki for a tutorial on how to build macros.18:53
nubabtw i think when I was reading this past month's channel log, someone said you cannot get the password out of the MD5 hash18:54
+perlDreamerwell, MD5 has been cryptographically hacked, so technically you can supply a password which will match the hash, but in general, you're right18:54
nubajust so you guys know, you can find a string that causes hash collision18:54
+perlDreamerhashes are supposed to be 1-way functions18:55
nubadepending on the size of the string, its a one day computing job18:55
nubaon the average joe's wprkstation18:55
nubai've done i once to find a 6-letter password in one of the missions at hackthissite.org18:56
nubawhen hackthissite.org was the new thing on the block and I used to hav free time in my hands18:57
nubalooong ago18:57
+perlDreamerI built a hardware SHA-1 implementation, so I've tried to follow the crypto stuff since.18:58
+perlDreamerIt's very fun18:58
+perlDreamerbut I haven't done any reverse engineering or hacking18:58
+perlDreamerjust reading18:58
+perlDreamerwgGuest24: Are you asking a new question, or didn't you see my response above?18:58
wgGuest24new question18:59
+perlDreamerCould you repeat it, please?19:00
wgGuest24What I want to know is whether there is any function that I hand over the key of the user who is logged on, namely that I declare $identifier = ..., and Because when there is an update can change the structure of the database and can be damaged my macro function if I do this manually 19:01
+perlDreamerI did answer that question above.19:01
+perlDreamerIt's a simple 1-line call : $encryptedPassword = Digest::MD5::md5_base64($password);19:01
+perlDreamerSo you'll have to do it yourself, but it's very easy to do.19:01
+perlDreamerYou should also check the wiki for a tutorial on how to build macros.19:02
wgGuest24i know build macros, and too know digest::MD5, but then no there some way of call a function of webgui?19:02
+perlDreamerWell, you'd need a User object.19:04
+perlDreamerWill this macro be called on the current user, or a different one?19:05
+perlDreamerin that case, $session->user will give you the user object that you need19:05
+perlDreamerwill change the user's password19:05
+perlDreamerhang on a sec19:06
+perlDreamerthat's an old method19:06
+perlDreamerit's going to go away19:06
wgGuest24this is for validated or for change the password?19:07
+perlDreamerchange the password19:07
wgGuest24no, i need validated, how to do?19:07
wgGuest24i need compare the password19:08
+perlDreamerThat's a little more difficult, since WebGUI allows more than one method for validating users.19:09
+perlDreamerIf you'll only, ever use WebGUI authentication, it can be done.19:09
+perlDreamerWhy do you need to build a new/different way of validating users?19:09
wgGuest24no, i need compare two password, the is in the database with other that the user write19:11
+perlDreamerIn WebGUI, if you don't use WebGUI authentication, or LDAP authentication, you have to build a new authentication plugin (like WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI, or WebGUI::Auth::LDAP)19:12
wgGuest24then i need know if webgui have a function that gives me a pass of user19:12
+perlDreamerThe answer to that is no.19:12
+perlDreamerWebGUI only stores encrypted passwords, not plain text ones19:12
nubawgGuest24: You need to compare the user's password in the database with a string the user will provide?19:12
wgGuest24i need the password in the database, a function that gives me this19:13
nubaperlDreamer: he can compare PWDHASH = md5(string provided by the user)19:13
nubawhere PWDHASH is the encrypted password stored in webgui's database19:14
wgGuest24how to get this password Without using a query to the database directly19:14
nubaIm not sure you can get the hash with the WebGUI API19:25
nubait would most likely be here if it existed http://www.webgui.org/downloads/builds/7.5.1-beta/api/User.html19:26
@rizenyou can't get a password because they are stored in a one way hash19:26
nubarizen: it seems he wants to one-way-hash another string and compare it with the pwd19:26
@rizenyou use the authenticate() method for that19:28
@rizenbut it won't give you the user's password hashed or not19:28
wgGuest24i need compare two hash19:28
@rizenit just wants you to give it the hash19:28
@rizenit will do the comparison for you19:28
wgGuest24i need convert the text in digest md519:29
@rizenwhat you want to do doesn't matter. i'm telling you that the api won't give you the password under any circumstances19:29
wgGuest24i just need the password from the database whitout use a query in the macro19:29
nubawgGuest24: read about authenticate() at http://www.webgui.org/downloads/builds/7.5.1-beta/api/Auth.html19:30
wgGuest24mmm, then i have to do a query19:30
nubayou pass the string provided by the user to it19:30
nubaand it will do the work for you19:30
nubainstead of thinking what you want to implement, think about what you need to accomplish19:31
nubait seems to me with authenticate() you'll write less code and reach the same result19:34
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nubaheh, interesting "CMSs in-a-nutshell" from a random guy in #javascript:19:47
nubalefnire> wordpress if you don't know shit, joomla if you are a developer handing of a client that will manage their own site from now on, drupal if you are in house developing the site but client still wants to manage their own content, django/rails if you're in house doingn all the web work19:47
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nubabtw I dont endorse anything he says nor do I agree with him, just found interesting his effort to build a big picture of the CMSs araound19:52
@rizenperlmonkey2: have you decided whether you can come to the wuc or not? and if so are you willing to talk about survey 2.0?19:59
perlmonkey2I really am planning on it.  But I don't know when I'll be able to work on the survey.  I have a lot of the client side done, but I need to start on the server side, which means I have to learn most of the WG library.20:01
perlmonkey2I've started on that, but there is a lot to learn.20:01
perlmonkey2WG is huge.20:01
perlmonkey2Bah, I'll be there and the survey will have a working version.  I told work I wasn't working many weeknights or weekends anymore, so I'll have time.20:02
klnielsenI was wondering: I have been attempting to add an .ics feed to my calendar, but nothing shows up.  Is there a way to force an update?20:13
klnielsen(Spectre is working, or running at least)20:13
nubaklnielsen: can you manually retrieve the .ics and check if it is is OK?20:16
nubaklnielsen: or did you check if the URL you gave WebGUI for the .ics is OK?20:16
klnielsenI did20:18
klnielsenI am subscribed elsewhere20:18
nubafound anything in your webgui.log ?20:19
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klnielsenCannot generate recurring events: Event has no recurrence pattern at /data/WebGui/lib/WebGui/Workflow/Activity/CalendarUpdateFeeds.pm line 39420:21
@rizenperlmonkey2 that's great news20:24
perlmonkey2Hopefully I can get it done in time to help out on the commerce system.20:24
@rizenthat would be really cool20:25
perlmonkey2Looks like a lot of fun20:25
klnielsenNot to sound as remedial as I am, but does the logged error above mean that WebGUI simply doesn't like recurring events?20:32
klnielsenit seems odd since the option is offered if you are entering an event by hand20:33
klnielsenis it the ics format?20:33
klnielsenthe fact that it is google-hosted?20:34
@rizenit could be a bug in webgui as well20:34
@rizeni don't know anything about the calendar so i shouldn't comment20:34
klnielsenpoop.  20:35
@preactionsounds like a bug to me20:41
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@preactionand i do know about the calendar. but i think graham is working on fixing that the right way soon20:42
klnielsenthank you, sir20:42
@preactionHaarg, how's the change to using ical recurrence patterns throughout the calendar coming?20:42
@Haargi have the recurrence stuff ripped out and replaced20:45
@Haargthe hardest thing that i haven't dealt with yet is translating the ical to the form20:46
@preactionthe module doesn't help with that?20:47
@Haargone of them might20:47
@preactionno worries, just wondering20:47
@Haargthe one that generates the recurrence patterns doesn't20:47
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@Haargactually, i guess i hacked out code to translate ical recurrence to what the calendar is using now20:50
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@Haargshouldn't be too hard to adapt that to generate the form instead20:51
klnielsenis there another shared calendar format I can use?20:51
klnielsenI think google offers a few...20:51
klnielsenical would be best, tho20:51
@Haargical is what the calendar supports20:51
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+perlDreamerSo do y'all have any ideas about the perl bug that I found?20:52
+perlDreamerSince it happens on two different OS'es, I was thinking I could take it back to the perl porters20:52
@preactionperlDreamer, that's where i would start. or misc@perl.org perhaps?20:53
@preactionif there is a misc@20:53
+perlDreamerThe big bummer is that when I tried to minimize the bug, it went away20:53
+perlDreamerso you have to install WebGUI to debug it20:55
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@rizensubversion sucks ass21:14
@rizenat least trying to compile subversion sucks ass21:14
@rizeni had forgotten how much i hated it21:14
@rizenwow our irc wiki page is really cool21:19
@rizeni hadn't read it before21:19
@rizenwell, at least not since i created it21:19
nubaim using svk and enjoying it. keeps my depot in sync with plainblack's svn, and allows me to branch and commit my work21:19
@rizeni'm compiling a new version of subversion of pb svn21:20
klnielsenrizen: agreed.  I'm getting help because of it.  :)21:20
@rizencan't really use svk for that21:20
@rizenklnielsen: be sure to put whatever knowledge you gain into the wiki so others can bask in it's glory21:21
nubarizen: while you're at it, can you delete this? /community-wiki/irc---webgui-channel21:23
perlmonkey2In the source install guide in the wiki I want to change this "chown -Rf nobody uploads" to let people knwo that nobody should be replaced with their httpd user if it isn't nobody.  Should I just put that in parens next to it?21:29
@rizenor a note above or below it21:29
nubarizen: in the 1189004211 revision of community-wiki/irc baylink added a paragraph stating the channel is not for webgui users, but for developers only. Is that accurate? Dont we want power users, non-devel-people, here too?21:31
GooeyOfSteelWiki: Source Install - Edited on 2/13/2008 1:21 pm by perlm  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/source-install21:31
@rizennuba, sure it's for anybody21:33
@preactionwe'll take all comers, really. there's just a limit to how much "WebGUI is broken because it doesn't do what I want how I want" that some people (myself included) will put up with21:33
* perlmonkey2 is obviously a contributor to preaction headaches.21:34
@preactiondoesn't mean i'm issuing +b, but i will start /ignoring21:34
* rizen also pisses off preaction but for different reasons21:34
@preactionbecause jt doesn't listen when I say WebGUI is broken because it doesn't do what I want how I want21:34
perlmonkey2rizen: Any chance we'll be able to play with the latest WDK soon?21:35
@rizendidn't you just hear me say that i hate subversion21:37
perlmonkey2I wonder if git is any better.21:37
@rizenit's not21:37
@rizenand really my problem isn't with subversion, it's with swig, which is what they use for perl bindings21:38
perlmonkey2Oh, subversion's WDK tie in.21:38
nubawhere is baylink these day? baylink = jay, right?21:44
@apeironeeeeeeew, swig21:45
@rizenif you're going to ask, you should ask about someone who actually contributed to the community21:46
@rizenlike pederson21:46
nubayeah, from baylink.pitas.com "I'm Jay Ashworth. I've been an opinionated bastard on the net for about 12 years now, ..."21:46
nubaI think that by nitpicking you he might have helped you elaborate on your ideas and on webgui's design too21:50
nubaeven if it wasnt a pleasant experience21:50
@rizeni'm certain that every person i've come in contact with on the webgui project has influenced my decision making...however, there are certainly some that are more valuable than others21:51
@rizenand he's not near the top of my list21:51
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perlmonkey2Does "Survey2.0" or "AJAXSurvey" sound better for the wobject name?22:03
@rizenjust Survey22:04
@rizencuz the old one is going away22:04
@apeiron. in package names tends to make perl go asplodey, too.22:05
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perlmonkey2There isn't really any documentation on the webgui libraries, is there?  Like I'm looking at how getEditForm works, but I'm jumping around to try to piece its functionality together, which makes it hard to get the big picture.22:15
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@preactionperlmonkey2, the big picture is in Asset.pm->getEditForm, but you should know that if the definition has autoGenerateForms => 1, you don't need to play with getEditForm.22:16
wgGuest59i have a site that when i go to the map site i obtain an error but only in internet explorer22:17
perlmonkey2preaction: I'm looking through that super right now.  Just trying to see how it all works because the survey editform will have to be a custom template with a whole ton of event methods for handling client callbacks.22:17
perlmonkey2Just hoping there was a "wall of text" laying it out for the simply minded :)22:18
@preactionright, but it should only need that for one of the tabs, no?22:18
@preactionand are you sure you want the Survey editor to be on the same page as the Asset properties?22:18
perlmonkey2preaction: see, I hadn't thought of htat.22:18
@preactioni worry that editing a Survey for an uncommited survey asset will be difficult22:19
@preactionor rather, at the same time you create one22:19
+perlDreamerlike a CS, Calendar and Gallery22:19
perlmonkey2well, an asset should be one survey.  And the survey's top level config is going to be all ajaxified too.22:19
@preaction(when the assetId is still "new")22:19
perlmonkey2preaction: okay....very good point.22:19
@preactiontop-level config? you mean title, description, and the like? sounds like bad juju22:19
perlmonkey2no fancy smancy until it is created.22:19
@preactionyou can have a proceed=editSurvey in your edit form that will bring the user right to the www_editSurvey method after they click "Save" if you want22:20
@preactionbut i'd only do that if it's a new survey22:20
perlmonkey2once the survey is created though, a lot of options will be locked, because it will break the question-answer-response model to change them.22:21
@preactionor make it a select box like it is on Layout assets and Folder assets22:21
wgGuest59the error is that a script is causing that internet explorer is running slowly, the pc would leave of working if the script continues running22:21
perlmonkey2preaction: Okay, sold :)22:21
wgGuest59do you know what is it about?22:21
@preactionperlmonkey2, what if those things that would break the survey are on the editSurvey screen instead? 22:21
wgGuest59because in firefox it works.22:22
@preactionperlmonkey2, nm, dunno how that would work22:22
perlmonkey2preaction: I see no real reason not to do that.  But it would break up the initial survey configuration into multiple screens.22:22
perlmonkey2But if I don't put them on multiple pages I'll have to figure out how to lock out options in the generated tab form.22:23
@preactionit is a chore, yes. but when you start storing questions/answers/sections in the database (in a collateral table i expect, not the Survey table), you're going to thank me22:23
@preactionthat's easy enough, make it a readonly instead of a text or select22:24
perlmonkey2preaction: So I would have conditions in the definition?  Or update the properties in the editform?22:26
@preactionyou'd have the conditions in the getEditForm method22:26
@preactionand you'd set "autoGenerate => 0" in the properties in the definition for those properties22:26
perlmonkey2 if ($self->get("assetId") ne "new") {//update def properties from inputs to read only ?22:27
+perlDreamerthen it can never be altered/updated by the user22:27
@preaction$self->getId, or if that doesn't work then $self->session->form->get('assetId'), but yes22:27
@preactionyou might want to do it the other way though22:27
@preactionupdate them to be editable on creation. with sane defaults.22:28
perlmonkey2preaction: Okay, let me sum up what you've advised.  I should put options that will break the user inputted question-answer model in the survey edit/creation page, and only put non-destructive options in the tabform.  But if I were to put them in the tabform, I could protect them from being altered in the way we just discussed?22:29
@preactionbasically, yes22:30
@preactioni would advocate the first opinion though. i don't like the idea of having things you can't re-change on the asset edit screen22:30
perlmonkey2Okay, I'm easily convinced.22:31
perlmonkey2I'm all for best practices.22:31
@preactionbut then, i don't like that you can't change those survey things either. but i'm not about to second-guess your opinion22:31
perlmonkey2It is intuative why they can't be changed, but I don't want to let the user shoot themselves in the foot.22:31
@preactiontrue enough22:31
perlmonkey2Okay, I think I'm getting the overall arch I'll need.  I'll use the tabforms for the survey creation and then replace the current survey's HTMLForms with templates and my JS client code.22:39
perlmonkey2Too bad I can't use the HTMLForms, seems like a very slick generic asset edit templating system.22:40
@preactionit's not much a template system as it is a generator22:42
@preactionand you probably should use it, do you want the user to be able to edit the template of the survey editor?22:42
@preactionthen you probably want to use HTMLForm to generate it22:43
perlmonkey2Do generate the edit questions/answers and have the drag and drops, etc?22:43
@preactionyou can write raw HTML to an HTMLForm, if necessary22:44
perlmonkey2There will only be one edit survey page.  It will be some static html/css building the layout of the page, and then a whole lot of JS.  Would the HTMLForm be better than a custom template?22:46
perlmonkey2I'm not really going to be able to take advantage of anything the HTMLForm offers except the far right column options and the top halo text22:47
+perlDreamerthat's the Admin Console, no the HTML form22:48
perlmonkey2Before I get started on this, I think it needs a lot more planning out.  I dont' want to create a one-off paradigm of doing this.  I mean, how should web2.0 interfaces be grafted into the existing standard asset editing interface?22:54
perlmonkey2The current HTMLForm is for auto-generating html <input>s for needed parameters.  But the new survey will have dynamic params and need input added, deleted, updated.22:55
+perlDreameryou mean like the DataForm?22:57
perlmonkey2I've never looked at the dataform...I'll go look22:57
@rizenperlmonkey2...you're pretty much going to need to one off it for the survey22:58
@rizenand then we'll need to base our design decisions for the asset system going forward based upon what you do there22:58
@rizeni know it sucks, but if you don't do it this way, you'll get mired down into a swamp from which you will never return22:59
perlmonkey2I could fit it into the HTMLForm, but it would basically just be the HTMLForm wrapping everything I do in a raw call.22:59
@preactionperlmonkey2, i've got some unreleased code that does a lot of javascript stuff in the Asset Edit form (no ajax, ajax can't be done in the asset edit form because the edit form is shown before the asset exists in the database)23:00
perlmonkey2Okay...I think I can figure it out from here then :)23:00
perlmonkey2preaction: I'd love to look at it, but the asset edit shouldn' tneed any JS now.23:00
@preactionif you want an example. check out my experimental branch: https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/branch/doug-experimental23:00
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* perlmonkey2 grumbles about going into work for a 4pm meeting when I'm all excited about actually having the client code working inside WG. AFK for a few hours.23:23
wgGuest59i have some sites in webgui 7.3.22, can i update directly to the latest version or is better to upgrade first to 7.4.0?23:25
@preaction7.4.21 is the next step. the 7.5.0 and 7.4.22 upgrades won't let you upgrade from 7.3.2223:27
wgGuest59i have to upgrade from 7.3.22 to 7.4.2123:27
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* klnielsen just got back from lunch to find that she has been asking n00b questions in the dev chan. Sorry everyone!23:53
+perlDreamern00b questions are fine23:53
+perlDreamerthis isn't just a dev chan23:53
+perlDreamer(11:33:39) preaction: we'll take all comers, really. there's just a limit to how much "WebGUI is broken because it doesn't do what I want how I want" that some people (myself included) will put up with23:54
+perlDreamerAnd the other thing that gets our goat is people who ask questions that are answered in the online help, wiki or discussion board.23:54
nubaklnielsen: i think people here would freak out if someone asked "how do I add an article? Can someone login in my site and do it for me, pretty please with sugar on top ??"23:54
klnielsenI try not to be a poop-head, and to be very grateful, but I will admit to occasionally not knowing what to search for, terminology-wise.  You guys(?) are all really patient, I think.  Nothing like the happy-smiley-clubs that were the the early '90s *nix channels.23:57
--- Day changed Thu Feb 14 2008
* perlDreamer tries not to feel old with that comment...00:00
+perlDreamer... and fails00:00
@preactionyeah. those *nix channels still exist, on this network even. #openBSD is my favorite help channel to hang out in00:00
@preactionthey don't take any question that's in any manual or on google00:01
+perlDreamermaybe we could train a bot to do that for us00:01
+perlDreamerGueyOfSteel: show lazyUser Editing Templates wiki00:01
GooeyOfSteellazyUser: http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/templates-add/edit00:04
nubawhat the.. ?! GooeyOfSteel its A-L-I-V-E !!!00:04
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nubaguess that scared the CIA bot00:05
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nubasearching the wiki could return many hits00:07
nubaif GooeyOfSteel posts a list here people will start complaining00:07
nubamaybe just feeding perlbot with a few wiki-related factoids would be good enough00:08
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+perlDreamerI hope you're not here to hunt me down for egregious abuse of the American language00:19
@preactionoh noes!00:19
bopbopno fears00:19
bopbopjust popping in to say hello00:19
+perlDreamerHow's the youngest McCombs?00:20
bopbopshe's great! running the house already00:20
klnielsenpreaction: those channels can be helpful if you are a god...  (*nix)00:30
klnielsenand perlDreamer - I am sure I have you beat, age-wise.  I am the old woman at work here... and the only woman on my floor00:31
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BartJolperldreamer, have you already seen my new gadget?00:36
BartJolrizen calls it nasty00:36
+perlDreamerBartJol: gadget?00:37
BartJola gooey thing00:38
+perlDreamerClue me in, dude00:38
BartJolhave to mail it to Sarah00:38
BartJolto convince JT00:39
+perlDreamerI agree, it's nasty00:39
+perlDreamerIt's like the complement of the Face Hugger from Aliens00:39
BartJolbut a bit funny though?00:39
* perlDreamer is very conservative00:39
+perlDreamerbut yes00:39
BartJolnot quite your style maybe00:40
klnielsenIt's funny :D00:40
klnielsenwell drawn, tho... did you do the art?00:40
BartJolwell, just downloaded the male figure and put the underwear on00:41
BartJolI hope not to dissapoint you to much Perldreamer00:41
+perlDreamerOh no00:41
BartJolmaybe I've sick mind00:41
+perlDreamerI've been trying to see where to order one in size large :)00:42
+perlDreamermaybe he's one size fits all, with elastic arms00:42
BartJolwell, we should make JT to order a batch00:42
@rizenJT has already used up his marketing budget for the year00:42
@rizenand his underwear budget too00:42
+perlDreamerEven special purple fuzzy Gooey underwear?00:43
BartJolyou'll make a big progit out of it00:43
+perlDreamerJust wait 'til the customers roll in from Scale.00:43
BartJolsarah will like it on you, rizen00:43
+perlDreamerDoes it come in female version, too?00:44
BartJolit will00:44
+perlDreamerCan you translate the Dutch on the slide?00:45
BartJolmy design in any case00:45
BartJolWie weet... = Who knows, next year a valentine-gooey00:46
BartJolVragen?= Questions00:46
BartJolthe rest is just standard template content00:46
BartJolnot really interesting00:47
BartJolbut I have to go, 'm really not social right now00:48
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nubai sense there has been some splitting in the community lately...00:57
+perlDreamernuba, per our conversation yesterday, it looks like the Help was pruned out a long time ago01:01
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+perlDreamerthe only extra things that I've found are old, plug_in docs for Template help01:02
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nubaperlDreamer: ok, thanks for the heads up01:02
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+perlDreamerperl's hash slicing syntax sucks01:14
@preaction@hash{ qw( key key2 key3 ) }; # how so/01:16
+perlDreamerit doesn't look like a hash anymore01:16
@preactionit's not a hash, it's a hash slice01:16
+perlDreamerIt's not symmetrical with array slicing.  They still look like arrays, sigil wise01:18
CIA-40WebGUI: colin * r5435 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Asset_SQLReport: remove some crufty files01:18
CIA-40WebGUI: colin * r5436 /translations/ (55 files in 19 dirs): remove old, unused template plugin docs01:18
+perlDreamerDoes anyone know what the NewMail macro is about?01:24
@preactionprobably checking if a user has mail in their inbox01:28
+perlDreamerlet's see if CIA-40 pukes on that one :)01:29
+perlDreamernuba: I found the extra files, they were macro files.  So all the macro docs without pure i18n labels or template info were removed.01:32
+perlDreamerand, due to a bug in my scanning script, I just found the extra entries, too01:46
nubaperlDreamer: ok. any idea of when these modifications are going to appear on i18n.webgui.org ?01:49
+perlDreamerSome have already been committed01:49
+perlDreamerThe tag removal will happen as soon as I figure out how to script it.01:49
+perlDreamerThe key revision is 543401:50
+perlDreamermy first rev was 543501:50
+perlDreamerit will happen as soon as rizen or maybe Haarg does an svn update for the i18n server01:54
+perlDreamerso for now, all the old stuff is up there01:54
@rizenit will happen when the new 7.5.2 release comes out01:55
@rizenthe i18n server reads out of our /data/WebGUI folder01:55
+perlDreamerI was wondering, since the polish translation still exists (as opposed to Polish)01:56
@rizengod damn it01:56
@rizeni keep deleting it01:56
@rizenand someone keeps recreating it01:56
CIA-40WebGUI: colin * r5437 /translations/ (640 files in 19 dirs): remove pruned i18n files for macros and removed Assets01:56
CIA-40WebGUI: colin * r5438 /translations/ (4 files in 2 dirs): remove a few other misc files01:56
+perlDreamerso far i've cut out 10 MB of old, crufty i18n01:57
+perlDreamernow there's only 1900 out of date entries in valid files to cut out01:57
nubawhat will happen if I "Commit to SVN" now ?01:58
nubacreate bogus entries again?01:58
+perlDreamerpossibly, but don't worry about it01:58
@rizencommit to svn just stores the translation in svn01:58
@rizenin case someone decides to deface it01:58
@rizenthat way we can roll back01:58
+perlDreamerbut the changes I've been making need to be merged back into the "master" copy01:59
nubabut how about merging the changes in i18n.webgui.org with ones commited directly to the repo01:59
* perlDreamer suspects he just signed up for that job :/01:59
nubaarent both commiting to https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/browse/translations/ ?02:00
nubalooks like that to me02:00
nubaLast Change: jt: update_from_translation_server02:00
@rizenif pd has done changes in svn directly02:01
@rizenand you do a commit to svn02:01
@rizenit will do an update automaticallly02:01
+perlDreamerwhat if they conflict?02:02
+perlDreamerI just tried committing the Spanish translation, and it looks okay02:03
@rizenif they conflict then we have a problem02:04
@rizenand i have to resolve it manually02:04
nubaI guess I'll just export the translation tgz and timestamp it after work sessions...02:05
nubarizen: is /tools/translationserver.cgi all I need to run a translation server locally?02:06
@rizenyes, but you should not do that02:07
+perlDreamernuba: one other thing to keep in mind is that the Help files which point to the i18n don't exist anymore, either.02:07
+perlDreamerso that i18n is essentially orphaned02:07
@rizenhaving the translations out on a central server is motivational therapy for those looking to update their translations02:07
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@rizenthe more we have the more motivational therapy02:08
nubathats true, man. it really feelt good seeing finnish and french going up too, as I was updating BrazilianPortuguese02:08
nubabut then I would be able to translate HEAD, not the lastest release running on plainblack.com02:09
nubathats motivational too02:09
+perlDreamerthe i18n server is HEAD02:09
@rizenplainblack.com is at most 1 week behind head02:09
@rizeni18n is not head02:09
@rizeni18n = plainblack.com02:09
+perlDreamerOh, yeah.02:10
+perlDreamerYou're right02:10
+perlDreamerit pulls from /data/WebGUI02:10
+perlDreameron my system, that is HEAD :)02:10
nubasame here02:10
@rizentomorrow Haarg will release 7.5.2 and then i18n will be up to head02:11
nubaok. I wont touch i18n before that and we'll then be sure there are no conflicts02:12
+perlDreamerrizen: translationserver bugs get logged to the bug tracker?02:12
nubai wasnt planning to, anyway. thats something im doing on the weekends02:12
nubarizen: BTW soon there will be no need to differentiate Brazilian Portuguese and Portuguese02:19
@rizenoh yeah?02:19
@rizenwhy is that?02:19
nubatheres a orthographic reform treaty which has been signed by almost all portuguese speaking countries02:19
@rizenaren't there only 2 portuguese speaking countries?02:20
nubaheh, no. 02:20
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@rizensorry for my ignorance02:20
nubaSpoken in: Angola, Brazil, Cape Verde, East Timor, Guinea Bissau, Chinese S.A.R. of Macau, Mozambique, Portugal and São Tomé and Príncipe.02:20
nubafrom wikipedia02:20
MsGeekHi, I have a couple of Gooey wallpapers for you guys.02:20
MsGeekWhere do I email them to?02:21
@rizenthere's a site to post them to02:21
@rizenlet me get you the url02:21
MsGeekThey are based on a pic I took at SCALE 6x02:21
@rizenjust log in02:21
MsGeekYes, but there's nowhere to upload.02:21
@rizenand then you'll see an option to post02:21
nubarizen: having Brazilian Portuguese up to date gives WebGUI a great coverage in south america, plus some of africa 02:23
nubarizen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_language#Geographic_distribution02:23
@rizeni know. if we had spanish too we'd have prettymuch all of south america covered02:24
nubaSA is not like europe, where there's a different language in every town ;)02:24
@rizenand if we had french covered...that would give us even more of africa02:24
nubawith portuguese+spanish, you cant barely notice the amount you wouldn't cover in SA and Central America too02:25
nubacan barely*02:25
MsGeekAlright, I'm in.02:25
nubaa couple of tiny countries in the Amazon rainfores area02:25
CIA-40WebGUI: jt * r5439 /tools/pushrelease.pl: beta vs stable02:27
@rizenthat's a lot of gooeys02:30
@rizenThanks MsGeek02:31
MsGeekYes, there is.02:31
@rizendid you get your own gooey at the show?02:31
MsGeekAnd there is now an even more impressive version for widescreen.02:31
MsGeekYes, I did.02:31
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MsGeekOnce I find one of those suction cup hook thingies it's going to stick on my iMac.02:31
@rizenhad you heard of WebGUI or seen Gooey before Scale?02:33
MsGeekOriginally I had an Ayanami Rei (Neon Genesis Evangelion) chibi plushie, but a friend of mine is more of a Gainax fan than I am and he was feeling a little depressed so I gave it to him.02:33
MsGeekNo, wasn't aware of it.02:33
@rizenWell, we're glad to have you here now. Welcome.02:33
MsGeekI don't know if my webhost has WebGUI as an option for content management.02:34
@rizenif not, you should request it02:34
nubayou gave away your Ayanami Rei plush doll??02:34
MsGeekIt was the Holidays. I was being generous.02:35
* nuba watched EVA 1-25+3 movies 3x02:35
MsGeekAnd I figured I'd find another one eventually.02:35
MsGeekThis machine I'm on is netnamed Eva00 because it's the same shade of indigo blue.02:35
nubai had my EVA-enthusiast fad a few years ago02:36
* MsGeek is looking forward to You Are (Not) Alone when it comes out.02:36
metanilif i want to add a new template variable in an asset, then will  $self->set("templatename","value"); will work.. if it, then which method should i write this code 02:37
MsGeekAnyway, lemme look at what my host offers on Fantastico and get back to you.02:37
@rizenok...well thanks for the submission02:37
@rizenoh, and if you have any other photos of our booth you'd like to share02:38
@rizenpost them here: http://www.webgui.org/webgui/campaigns/gooey-on-the-go02:38
MsGeekThey've got everything *but* your product.02:41
@rizenthey probably just haven't been properly introduced to it02:41
MsGeekDrupal Geeklog Joomla Mambo Open Source PHP-Nuke phpWCMS phpWebSite Post-Nuke Siteframe TYPO3 Xoops02:43
MsGeekThat's the list.02:43
@rizenall php stuff02:43
@rizenmaybe that's why02:43
@rizenmaybe they are a php only hoster02:43
MsGeekYeah, they're big on LAMP there.02:44
@rizenwe're lamp to02:44
MsGeekSo, oh well.02:44
@rizenwhere P = Perl02:44
MsGeekMaybe they aren't Perl fans.02:45
MsGeekOne thing for sure, I'd never be crazy enough to run a Nuke site, either PHP-Nuke or Post-Nuke.02:46
MsGeekI did that...once.02:46
@rizenthey get hacked every 3rd second02:46
MsGeekEasy enough to hack even for a crapflooder idiot with only two brain cells to rub together.02:47
@rizenWell MsGeek...even if you can't use WebGUI at your hoster, welcome to our community. We're glad to have you here.02:47
MsGeekAnyway, good talking to you, and I'm glad you liked my pics.02:48
MsGeekTake care all...02:48
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@rizenthat's one...now we just need the 700 other people we talked to to come on over02:48
nubathats a 0.14% conversion rate until now02:51
nubafrom booth visitor to irc visitor02:51
nubayou're doing well, considering the came AND contributed02:52
@rizenthat's amazing02:52
@rizenoh btw02:52
@rizenyou guys may be interested to know that the PB staff now has a blog02:52
@rizenthey're prettying it up02:53
@rizenbut it's already got a number of posts02:53
nubaCan they freely speak there? Workflow is Commit With Approval? ;)02:53
@rizenthey can speak freely there02:54
@rizenexcept about ongoing client projects02:54
@rizencuz we could be sued for that02:54
@rizenoh and they can't say anything bad about any client, ongoing project or not02:55
@rizenother than that, they can say what they want02:55
nubafair enough02:55
nubawhat about visitors commenting and not following these guidelines02:56
@rizenvisitors don't know anything about our clients or client projects02:57
@rizenso they couldn't possibly comment on them02:57
nubarizen: FYI http://www.plainblack.com/pr/products-and-services isnt listing these /news/news/webgui-vps03:01
@rizenthanks i'll have someone fix it03:02
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nuba'nite guys, off to bed03:22
perlmonkey2http://www.plainblack.com/intranet/blog/blog.rss formatting is broke, I see wallOfText04:09
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ryuu_rohi guys, in a navigation template I'm doing something like this  <tmpl_if page.ownerUserId="3">  FOO   </tmpl_if>  11:27
ryuu_robut then i get a syntax error11:28
ryuu_rocan't i use page.ownerUserId in this way?11:28
BartJoland if you make it <tmpl_if <tmpl_var ownerUserId>="3">?12:07
ryuu_rogive me a sec12:09
BartJoltoo bad12:12
ryuu_roreplaced the dot with an underscore, that' too is not the solution12:13
BartJolryuu_ro , besides the docs I just gave you, I have some more, you can come and check them, if needed12:32
ryuu_rook, tnx 12:32
ryuu_roi gonna check the docs first12:32
ryuu_rothen we'll have lunch :) 12:32
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Radix__what template engine are you using ryuu_ro ?13:36
Radix__html::template won't do that - you need either template toolkit or the extended html::template (I forget the name off the top of my head)13:37
Radix__you can use java to bolster the base template engine up a bit, but then you get a javascript requirement13:38
Radix__javascript I mean13:39
ryuu_roah tnx Radix, i think i will go back to Template Toolkit then13:54
ryuu_roon the other hand, i'm using yui for the menu so javascript is already required13:55
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BartJolHi Radix14:28
BartJoldo you know if it harms security if a value, given with a macro can be set to anything?14:29
BartJoldefault is zero, any other value effectively means 114:29
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BartJolthere is not much happening with the value, just a test whether a calculation should be made or not14:32
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Radix__depends how it's used I guess, probably not15:55
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SDuensinGood morning.16:04
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wgGuest62about one week ago i did a upgrade of my web sites that were in 7.3.22 to the latest version of webgui.  in that ocassion i had an error, so i had to return to 7.3.22 again16:07
wgGuest62yesterday i tried to do the same but when the upgrade script start, i obtain some errors16:08
wgGuest62you can see the errors at http://webgui.pastebin.com/m27cd57da16:10
wgGuest62if someone can help me, thanks in advance16:13
perlmonkey2wgGuest62: That looks kind of serious.  Like an schema upgrade failed half way through.16:20
wgGuest62i don't know what to do16:23
wgGuest62i am comparing the mysql databases of two versions 7.3.22 vs 7.4.1516:27
wgGuest62in 7.3.22 in the colaboration table does not exist the column threadApprovalWorkflow16:28
wgGuest62the upgrade from 7.3.22 to 7.4.0 will add the column?16:29
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wgGuest62when i run spectre i obtain the next error 'jsonToObj' will be obsoleted. Please use 'from_json' instead. at ../lib/WebGUI/Config.pm line 34217:05
wgGuest62i don't how to fix it?17:06
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wgGuest37i can to use the module VUser::Google::ProvisioningAPI in a macro?17:09
wgGuest62help me again17:19
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wgGuest37how are you?17:29
wgGuest62how are you, too17:31
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perlmonkey2wgGuest62: still there?17:43
perlmonkey2wgGuest62: if someone is in irc and you want their attention, say their name.  Most irc clients will alert the person that their name was said.17:43
perlmonkey2wgGuest62: Are you running WG from source or the WRE (I'm guessing source).17:44
perlmonkey2if source, then open the cpan shell by 'cpan' then type 'force install Config::JSON'17:44
perlmonkey2or actually I think the cpan bug is fixed and you can just type 'cpan -i Config::JSON' on the command line.17:44
wgGuest62i am running from source17:44
wgGuest62i have installed config::json without any problems17:45
wgGuest62i was upgrading from 73.22 to 7.417:46
wgGuest62in 7.3.22 i don't have installed Config::JSON, so to do the upgrade, i installed it17:47
wgGuest62but i obtained some errors in the upgrade, i have to ruturned to 7.3.2217:48
wgGuest627.3.22 don't need Config::JSON, so would have some problem if it is installed?17:49
wgGuest62perlmonkey2, do you know what can i do?17:52
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ckotilthats to penn station btw.17:59
perlmonkey2wgGuest62: You definetely need Config::JSON18:12
perlmonkey2and having the most up to date version *will* break your older webgui install.18:12
perlmonkey2But the point is to upgrade webgui, right?18:12
perlmonkey2the database error is the real trouble.  your upgrade script is trying to create a table that already exists and then erroring out.  I sure hope you followed guidelines and created a full database backup before starting to upgrade.18:13
perlmonkey2But perhaps you can manually delete the table18:14
perlmonkey2but probably best of all, I hear plainblack has an excellent support service, very reasonably priced.18:14
perlmonkey2Whom better to resolve Webgui issues than the masterminds behind webgui?18:15
wgGuest37i have a macro and when i run, webgui.log show me this: ERROR - www.prueba.com.conf - WebGUI::Session::ErrorHandler::error[184] - Could not run  on WebGUI::Macro::Prueba because it does not exist at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Macro.pm line 140, what i must do?18:17
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br4k3rhey all19:24
br4k3rgot a problem with my crumbtrail19:24
+perlDreameryo, br4k4r19:24
+perlDreameror malignant fairy demons bent on stopping you from reaching the city to save the baby?19:25
br4k3rheres how it's set up19:25
br4k3rStart Point: relative to current url19:26
br4k3rstart point ./ (0)19:26
br4k3rancestor end point ../ (-1)19:26
br4k3rinclude ancestors, self, decendands, pedigree19:26
br4k3rdecendant end point is ./a/ (+1)19:26
br4k3rwhen i click on a sub link (example Home > About Us)19:27
br4k3rit displays the trail properly... when i go back to the home it displays Home > About Us > Links > Contact Us > Calendar19:27
+perlDreamertwo questions:19:28
+perlDreamer1) what version of wG are you using?19:28
+perlDreamer2) Can you duplicate this on the demo site?19:28
br4k3rI'm using wG 7.4.2219:30
br4k3ri am not running a demo site19:31
br4k3ras a side note, I created my own theme...19:31
+perlDreamerI understand that, but it's always good to check if it's due to your templating, or due to the core asset.19:31
+perlDreamerSo would you please try to duplicate it on the demo site?19:31
br4k3rwill do... brb19:31
+perlDreamerNeed some bash scripting help19:32
@preactionyou've got questions, we've got answers!19:33
+perlDreamerHow do I translate this to bash?19:33
+perlDreamerand as a 1-liner?19:33
@preactionsvn revert -r .19:35
@preactionsorry, -R19:35
+perlDreamerI didn't know you could do svn in bash :)19:36
@preactionof course19:36
@preactionbash has access to any program on your PATH19:36
+perlDreamerThere's only 2 things stopping me from switching from tcsh to bash19:37
@preactionif you want to pass in a folder to revert, it'd be more like svn revert -R $119:37
+perlDreamer1) writing little for scripts19:37
+perlDreamer2) setting file complete to 1 tab19:37
@preactionfor file in *19:39
+perlDreamerDon't you need a "do" in there someplace?19:40
@preactiondo; cd $file; svn revert $file; cd ..; done19:40
@preaction; means a line-break, since i'm lazy19:40
@preactionhttp://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/index.html <- advanced bash-scripting guide. quickly gets to the heart of things19:41
+perlDreamerthanks, preaction19:42
+perlDreamerbug --19:50
@apeironapply ls *19:51
@apeironapply > all shell for loops19:51
@apeironDownside: BSD-only19:51
+perlDreamerI'm pretty linux centric nowadays19:52
+perlDreamerthey finally moved us off Solaris at $dayJob to RHEL419:52
+perlDreamerCIA-40 is going to puke on that commit, too19:53
nubasome nice loops here too http://zsh.sunsite.dk/Doc/Release/zsh_5.html#SEC2219:53
+perlDreameris zsh syntax compatible with bash?19:53
nubaI dont think so19:54
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nubaI started using bash lately more because of the WRE19:56
ckotileven if you put zsh in the hash bang?19:56
nubawas getting random errors here and there, and all smoother with bash19:56
+perlDreamerthat's what I'm thinking, too19:57
ckotilyeah, bash rocks.19:57
nubawell I could have tried to find out what was wrong, but I was really busy so i got bash from  /usr/ports and moved on to other things19:59
nubazsh completion for programm's switches really rocks20:00
ckotilohh, that sounds cool.20:00
@khennhey, who did the fancy graphics for the staff blog?20:06
@khennwas that steve?20:06
@khennlooks cool20:06
@preactionyeah, he asked me about it last night20:07
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+perlDreamermeatbop rocks20:13
CIA-40WebGUI: colin * r5440 /translations/ (330 files in 16 dirs): brought i18n files up to date with HEAD, removing old entries20:22
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@preactionany idea why the ^User("field"); macro would return undef even if I clear the cache and the name of the field is right?20:58
@preactionnm, must be a cache issue. i tried on a user who's never logged in before and it works21:00
@preactionthe user cache must be really difficult to clear out21:00
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ckotilits really difficult to make a .swf clickable as a link. i think a good rfe would be implement a click through url into the file asset for swf's21:51
@rizenit's not hard to do it at all21:52
ckotilim able to make my swf clickable in safari and ff (mac only) every other browser will not allow it.21:52
ckotiloh? i placed an invisible div over my swf and wrapped that in an a tag21:52
@rizenyou're thinking too hard21:52
ckotil<a href=""><object></object></a> doesnt work.21:53
ckotilplease tell me your secret21:53
@rizenmaybe i'm not understanding what you want to do21:53
@rizenwait now i get it21:53
@rizenyou actually want the movie to become a link21:53
ckotilcorrect. done only in html21:54
@rizennot that you want to link to the movie21:54
@rizenyeah, that doesn't work in ie21:54
ckotilyoutube does it so gracefully.21:54
@rizenyou actually have to build that url into the movie itself21:54
ckotilyah, thats pry how they do it.21:54
@rizensorry for the confusion there21:54
ckotilour new network weathermap tool is flash based.21:54
ckotilno prob. my heart only skipped a couple beats21:55
ckotiland we use the same swf for a small 'mini-map' but neevr hard coded a click through url into the swf.21:55
ckotilthats on the feature request list now tho.21:55
ckotilhttp://noc.nlr.net/ mini versions.21:56
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CIA-40WebGUI: graham * r5441 /WebGUI/docs/ (2 files in 2 dirs): preparing for 7.5.2 release23:19
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+perlDreamernuba: Are you awake?23:57
nubayou took the red pill too?23:58
+perlDreamerIn portugese, are the words for button (like clothing) and button (like web page) the same?23:58
nubaactually yes23:58
nubabotao applies to both23:58
nubawith a tilde over tje a23:59
--- Day changed Fri Feb 15 2008
+perlDreamerI'm filling in some of the Spanish translation00:01
perlmonkey2when did 8GB flash drives drop to $30?00:02
nubain spanish is boton and plural botones00:03
+perlDreamerIs it better to use UTF-8 characters for accents on web pages, or HTML encodings?00:03
nubaor botón with a ´ over the second o00:03
+perlDreamernever mind, the editor auto translates to encodings00:04
@apeironperlbot, utf8 ?00:04
perlbot? U+FFFD "REPLACEMENT CHARACTER", category: "Specials", utf8 bytes: EF BF BD00:04
nubaperlDreamer: if the page encoding is UTF-8, using UTF-8 chars is great00:04
nubawhy not?00:04
@apeironã perhaps?00:04
@apeironperlbot, utf8 ã00:04
perlbotã U+00E3 "LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH TILDE", category: "Latin-1 Supplement", utf8 bytes: C3 A3, upper-case: U+00C3 (Ã)00:04
@apeironnuba, Your IRC client isn't set to use UTF8, is it?00:05
nubaterm_charset = US-ASCII in my irssi00:06
CIA-40WebGUI: jt * r5442 /releases/WebGUI_7.5.2-beta: Release 7.5.2-beta00:09
CIA-40WebGUI: colin * r5443 /tools/translationserver.cgi: fix a typo so that we can find out why the Polish translation does not work00:09
CIA-40WebGUI: graham * r5444 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): preparing for 7.5.3 dev00:09
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+perlDreamerDo you have a WebGUI question?00:40
spersynyep: see log at http://webgui.pastebin.com/d3498b7f900:42
+perlDreamerwhat version of WebGUI are you running?00:43
spersynspectre does not start. says:  cann't connect to 3213300:43
+perlDreamerWhat version of WebGUI are you running, and did you recently upgrade?00:44
spersynjust installed wre 0.8.1 with auto;ated install00:44
spersynso should be latest stable release00:44
+perlDreamer7.5 is not the latest stable release, it's beta00:44
+perlDreamerIt sounds like you're running an old version of JSON00:45
+perlDreamerwhat happens if you go to /data/WebGUI/sbin00:45
spersyntryint to run tesenvironment.pl: says JSON version is 1.x, should be 2.y00:45
+perlDreamerYeah, you need to upgrade.00:45
spersynyes but here is the upgrade result using testenvironment.pl00:46
spersyndoesn't want to00:47
+perlDreameryou may have to install it manually00:47
+perlDreamerperl -MCPAN -e shell00:47
+perlDreamerinstall JSON00:47
spersynaargg same output if manually done (Writing Makefile for JSON00:49
spersyn    -- NOT OK00:49
spersynwhat is the equivqlent of make clean in coan cli?00:50
spersyncpan cli?00:50
+perlDreamerI don't think there is one00:50
+perlDreamerWhich OS are you using?00:50
spersynmandriva (redhat alike)00:50
spersyn2008 version00:50
spersynis there another way, like download the JSON module, and build it manually?00:52
+perlDreamerGo to search.cpan.org00:52
nubaGooeyOfSteel: check www.plainblack.com00:52
+perlDreamersearch for JSON00:52
GooeyOfSteelwww.plainblack.com   Server: Apache/2.0 | Generator: WebGUI 7.5.200:52
+perlDreamerdownload it00:52
+perlDreamerunpack the file00:52
+perlDreamercd into the distribution area00:52
+perlDreamertype perl Makefile.PL00:52
@apeironI've seen that some, possibly lots, of Linux distributions like to ship without things like make installed, for some unfathomable reason.00:52
spersynok thanks I'll try this way, and 'll let you know00:53
+perlDreamerbut that shouldn't prevent you from running perl Makefile.PL, would it?00:53
@apeironperlDreamer, No, just the next command'll b0rk. :)00:53
+perlDreameryeah, this guy can't even build the Makefile00:53
nubaapeiron: leaving compiling/debugging tools in the system is by some considered to increase insecurity, as these tools would be available to any would-be intruders.00:54
@apeironnuba, Tell that to the BSD systems that've been doing it since before Linux existed.00:54
+perlDreameranyone know how to do a variable width, negative look-behind assertion in a regex?00:54
@apeironnuba, Like... say... OpenBSD. :)00:54
nubaapeiron: i just wanted to shed some light on the "for some unfathomable reason."00:55
nubaim not a slim-as-hell enthusiast, but I do endorse the practice of installing barely the necessary in a server00:55
nubaso more like slim-as-needed00:56
nubaor too slim and you make the sysadmin's job a PITA00:56
spersynmandriva is distribution let's say for novices in linux. that explains why tehy restrict the possibilities, I assume.. :)00:57
nubawell i think a distro for novices should come with the usual tools ready for use01:00
nubato ease the learning curve of these novices01:00
nubaspersyn: you need to be a bit beyond the novice level to know exactly what tools you need to install in a server to accompllish a given task01:01
spersynyes. i'm a little bit more than novice. but just saw that default install of mandriva doesn't even include the make package01:03
+perlDreameryou'll need make eventually01:03
+perlDreamerand gcc01:03
+perlDreamerand a whole raft of other things01:03
+perlDreamercheck out the install instructions and check your package list01:04
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spersynk. I've upgraded JSON and Config::JSON01:20
spersynlet's test by restarting spectre now...01:21
spersynit works :)01:22
spersynthanks very ;uch for the help. I had to install the perl modules manually at the end01:24
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+perlDreamerIs colon ':', a valid URL type character?01:49
+perlDreamerIn other words, could I have http://mysite.com/left:right/foo as a valid URL?01:49
@rizen: is invalid01:52
+perlDreamercool.  Thanks!01:52
metanildoes the the template variable ownerUserId return the owner of the file?02:08
+perlDreamerownerUserId is whoever owns that Asset.02:08
+perlDreamerregardless of the kind of asset02:08
metanili upload a file with different user.. but its showing same Id02:08
metanilthen it applies for file asset as well.02:09
+perlDreameryes, although what template are you using?02:09
metanil"File Folder"02:10
+perlDreamerlet me check02:10
metanilthere is folder ..and within it there are files.02:10
+perlDreamerownerUserId does not have a template variable for the owner of all the files02:10
+perlDreameronly for the folder itself02:10
+perlDreamerI mean, Folder does not have a template variable for the owner of the files02:11
metaniloh! that means it is now showing the owner of folder not an individual file.02:11
+perlDreamerCheck out the file_loop variables in the folder template02:11
metanil.. what if i want to show ownerid for file. 02:11
metanilwithin a folder02:11
+perlDreamerYou'll have to change the folder asset02:11
metanilin method view?02:12
+perlDreamerwhereever the template variables are defined02:12
metanilwithin this -> foreach my $child (@{$children}) {02:12
+perlDreamerview is a good place to start looking02:12
metanillike this http://webgui.pastebin.com/d622a41c6 ?02:13
+perlDreameris getOwnerUserName a valid WebGUI Asset method call?02:14
+perlDreamernever seen that one02:14
metanilno no.. :D .. i added it02:14
+perlDreamerDid you add it to Asset, or to Folder or to File?02:14
metanilthis is from Asset/Wobject/Folder.pm02:15
+perlDreamerwell, unless it's available from all of the File Assets (File, Image, ZipArchive), etc. that won't work02:15
+perlDreamerwrong inheritance structure02:15
metaniland $child->getOwnerUserName will call WebGUI::Asset::File02:16
metanilany hints?02:16
metanilBut i think its going to each files within that loop.. so calling ownerId would definitely return the owner of that file.. (thats what i had guessed)02:18
CIA-40WebGUI: colin * r5445 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fix double and single slash handling in URLs, whether using SSL or not. Add tests to check02:19
CIA-40WebGUI: colin * r5446 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt: put fix in correct version02:19
CIA-40WebGUI: colin * r5447 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): forward port slash handling fix from 7.4 branch02:20
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metanilso any other good approaches?02:32
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metanili see 'stateChangedBy' in asset table .. what will it refers?02:58
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metanili can see 'stateChangedBy' in asset table in database .. what will it refers? is it mean by last updated by??03:25
@rizenstateChangedBy is the userId of the user the published it or put it in the trash or cut it to the clipboard03:28
metaniloh!! .. so if i edit some asset where will it be logged?03:29
metanilthere is only createdby field in that table. 03:30
@rizenlook in assetData03:31
@rizenthat contains the other info you're looking for03:31
metanilthnx.. got it. 03:32
metanilrizen, thanks i got it working..03:51
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CIA-40WebGUI: graham * r5448 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Auth.pm): Reject HTML and macros in usernames09:38
CIA-40WebGUI: graham * r5449 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (3 files in 3 dirs): preparing for 7.4.24 release09:38
CIA-40WebGUI: graham * r5450 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/lib/WebGUI/ (i18n/English/WebGUI.pm Auth.pm): fix HTML and macros rejection for usernames09:38
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CIA-40WebGUI: jt * r5451 /releases/WebGUI_7.4.24-stable: Release 7.4.24-stable13:19
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BartJolwhat's up?16:16
wgGuest31i have an error with spectre16:18
wgGuest31i upgraded from 7.3.22 to 7.4.2116:18
BartJolin one step?16:18
wgGuest31the error is the next16:18
wgGuest31i thinks i for the json's version16:21
ryuu_ro_wgGuest31: do you run WRE?16:22
BartJolryuu can help you better on this one16:22
wgGuest31no, i run from source16:22
ryuu_ro_ok, did you run testEnvironment before you upgraded?16:25
ryuu_ro_no errors came up?16:25
wgGuest31i have two servers in the same version16:26
wgGuest31i have been comparing the json's version16:27
wgGuest31and in one fo them i don't have problems and i have json 1.00 and config::json is 1.1.116:28
wgGuest31in the server that i have this problem i have json 2.06 and config::json 1.1.416:28
ryuu_ro_in the gotcha file there is something mentioned about force installinng config::json 1.1.0 before upgrading 16:29
ryuu_ro_but i'm not sure for which version16:29
wgGuest31but the problem is that i have config::json 1.1.4 installed16:30
wgGuest31how can uninstall this module to install again?16:30
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wgGuest31in the gotcha.txt from version 7.4.21 i found, You must upgrade to Config::JSON 1.1.0 or higher prior to upgrading.16:32
ryuu_ro_SynQ had a problem with config::Json 1.1.4 too, but he's not online now16:33
ryuu_ro_If you want to downgrade I quess you have to download the tar form cpan and manually install it16:33
ryuu_ro_not sure about this though16:33
wgGuest31is there a problem  if i have both versions installed?16:35
wgGuest31or how can i remove the module?16:35
@rizenyou can't remove it, you just have to install over it16:36
@rizenby downloading from cpan directly and then installing the old version16:36
wgGuest31i am going to do16:36
wgGuest31rizen, i have installed old versions of json and config::json, but i continue with the same problem17:12
CIA-40WebGUI: graham * r5452 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Reject HTML and macros in usernames17:12
wgGuest31what do you think about upgrading from 7.4.21 to 7.4.22?17:13
@rizenwhy do you call me by name? i don't know what you're talking about. i wasn't here when you were discussing your problem.17:13
@rizenum...it's a good idea17:14
@rizenyou need to be on the latest version of JSON and COnfig::JSOn to do that though17:16
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BartJolperldreamer, Koen has filed his copy of your presentation in a huge pile of paper, cd's etc. And the pile has been badly indexed18:30
+perlDreamerBartJol, I'll email you a copy tonight when I get back to $home18:30
+perlDreamerPlease PM me your email address18:30
BartJolgreat, you're my hero18:30
@rizenperlDreamer: branch/WebGUI_Commerce is the place to work18:43
+perlDreamerwhen/how do we start writing tests?18:44
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@rizenwe start now18:45
@rizeni'm setting up a mailing list for us18:45
@rizenor do you think we should just keep discussion on the dev mailing list?18:45
CIA-40WebGUI: jt * r5453 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce: A place to put new commerce stuff until it's ready18:46
@rizeni just don't want a bunch of no-nothing opinionated bastards to interrupt our work18:46
@rizeni guess we could just ignore them18:46
+perlDreamerI'm pretty thick skinned these days18:47
+perlDreamerbut an email list has the advantage of keeping a record of assignments and decisions18:47
+perlDreamerI think it's a good idea.18:47
@rizenlet's just do it on the dev mailing list18:47
@rizenit doesn't get much traffic these days18:47
@rizenok i threw out the first assignements on the dev mailing list18:53
@rizenthe testing document you sent me doesn't even mention test::class18:55
+perlDreamerNo, it's problematic right now.18:55
+perlDreamerIt's the cause of that perl problem I told you about18:55
@rizenso i should stick with the old tests?18:55
+perlDreamerIt seems to work okay on MacOS, but Fedora/i386 (32 and 64 bit) and BSD don't work18:56
+perlDreamerrizen: I'm not seeing anything from the dev list.19:01
+perlDreamerWas spectre restarted yesterday after the upgrade?19:01
@rizeni just emailed it a couple minutes ago19:01
@rizenit's on a 5 minute cycle methinks19:01
CIA-40WebGUI: jt * r5454 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/t/Shop: where the new commerce tests wil go19:02
+perlDreamerI have to go and play disk space cop.  I'll be back in a little while19:03
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dionakhey guys. quick question on removing a site. i recently removed a few sites from our WG installation and ended up with cron jobs trying to run against sites/dbs that no longer existed. Is there an extra step I need to do to prevent this? 19:11
dionaki'm getting ready to remove another...19:11
+perlDreamerDo you mean cron/cron jobs, or Spectre/Cron jobs?19:12
dionakare both created for a site when it's added?19:13
+perlDreameradded via the WRE?19:13
dionakyes, using the add site script. 19:13
dionaki use the remove site script when taking them off19:13
+perlDreameraccording to the WRE instructions on the wiki, the cron jobs have to be added manually19:14
+perlDreamerso I'd guess they have to be removed manually, too19:14
+perlDreamerbut I'm not a WRE user, so do take that with a grain of salt19:14
dionakwhat about spectre? should i check to see if a spectre cron is running before removing?19:14
@rizenspectre just needs to be restarted after removing the site19:19
@rizensame with modperl19:19
@rizenand modproxy19:19
dionakthat is the normal process. i'm just not sure how those processes were still in the system after removal but i'll see how this one goes.19:20
@rizenwhat processes are we talking about here? you didn't answer the question above whether you were talking about Spectre cron or unix cron.19:21
dionaki believe they were spectre because I recall seeing pb0000001 (or similar) in the webgui.log relating to the error19:22
dionaknot sure about the # of 0's19:22
dionakis that hourly workflows?19:23
dionakis there going to be a presentation at the WUC on workflows? i don't use them often and could probably use a refresher...19:26
@rizenthere was one last year19:27
@rizenwon't be one this year19:27
@rizenthe admin guide goes into workflows in quite a bit of detail19:27
@rizeni think you guys have a copy19:27
dionakok, we have a copy of that..19:28
@rizenand there is more about workflows in the developers guide coming out in a couple months (i know that doesn't help you know)19:28
dionakah, but it will. :)19:28
dionaki think i just need an understanding of system workflows and creating them.19:28
dionakfor instance, we redeveloped our site under dev.knowmad.com and then I ported the db over to production. i still have some workflows running for RSS feeds that are looking at dev.knowmad.com. 19:29
dionakstill trying to find those....19:29
dionakanyways, thanks. i'll go read a bit..19:33
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@rizenperlDreamer just an fyi20:15
@rizenyou introduced a bug at20:15
+perlDreameryes, I think Frank mentioned that last week20:15
@rizenthat is fixed here: https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/diff/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Cron.pm?rev1=5454;rev2=545520:16
@rizenthe reason i bring i up is to see if there's something you see that i don't see20:16
@rizenyou're checking for a hash ref on a  string, cuz the text is still json20:16
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+perlDreamerThat's based on a fix from the Commerce system which was incorrectly applied here in the Cron20:17
@rizennevermind then20:17
CIA-40WebGUI: jt * r5455 /WebGUI/ (lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Cron.pm docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt): faulty ref check20:18
@rizenanyway, that is why the emails from dev mailing list weren't going out20:19
@rizenor coming in20:19
+perlDreamerI thought that Frank fixed it last week after talking to me about it.20:19
@rizenlooks like it was already fixed in the 7.4 branch20:19
@rizenbut not head20:19
+perlDreamerthat would explain it20:19
@rizenbtw if you find flaws in my spec feel free to point them out20:20
@rizeni'm going to upload an open document version of it shortly20:20
@rizencuz i found some flaws20:20
+perlDreamerGooge doc, or OO.org?20:21
@rizenwould you prefer google doc?20:22
+perlDreamerNo.  Just curious20:22
nubabtw Google Docs is HTML. you can switch from/to HTML editing mode there.20:28
+perlDreamerI'm going to ask Peter to help me with translating WebGUI into Spanish20:28
nubamuy bueno20:30
@rizennuba, how many languages do you speak?20:31
+perlDreamerHe had a blast on the Wikipedia article20:31
+perlDreamerI hope this will be as good.20:31
nubaportuguese, english, lots of spanish, some french, some italian20:32
@rizenyou are a god to me20:33
nubayou guys?20:33
@rizenmy native language is garbled crap20:34
@rizenand i speak a little bit of english20:34
+perlDreamerEnglish, a little spanish, a little german, some phrases in vietnamese, perl, fortran, assembly20:36
nubai think when you're not in a dominant country you have a strong motivation to learn other languages20:36
@rizeni think most americans are at a strong disadvantage for not speaking at least one additional language20:36
@rizeni know i am20:36
+perlDreamerYou should learn English, then, to augment your garbled crap20:37
@rizeni've been trying to learn english, but it's hard20:37
nubawell im still learning english, you guys please let me know if you see me making any weird looking phrases20:40
+perlDreamerSi estara' una problema, nos le dicemos20:41
+perlDreamerFirst Commit.  w00t!20:41
nubaperlDreamer: its si hay algun problema, te haremos saber.20:44
+perlDreamer"If this is some problem, we make you to know"20:45
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+perlDreamerI see.20:45
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nubathat means "if there is any problem, we`ll let you know"20:45
+perlDreamerNecesito practicar mas20:46
CIA-40WebGUI: colin * r5456 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/t/Shop/Tax.t: add Tax tests for new and session method20:50
+perlDreamerrizen: I have a spec suggestion to make21:04
+perlDreamerI think we should have a version history page which lists changes in each release21:04
+perlDreamereither that, or have the doc itself under version control21:04
+perlDreamerthat way you can quickly find the changes, rather than reading through everything each time21:04
@rizenwe already link to the change long21:04
@rizenon getwebgui.com21:05
@rizenwhat else are you looking for?21:05
+perlDreamerfor the commerce spec21:05
@rizenbut even if we versioned the doc you wouldn't be able to see what changed21:06
@rizenit would have to be text or html21:06
+perlDreamerand with text we'd lose the graphics21:07
@rizenwhich isn't ideal for the graphics and stuff that are in there21:07
@rizentext also isn't good for the tables21:07
@rizenwe'd need to use html21:07
+perlDreamerbut then the doc isn't flat21:07
+perlDreamerthe graphics are stored outside21:07
CIA-40WebGUI: colin * r5457 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Tax.pm t/Shop/Tax.t lib/WebGUI/Shop): 21:15
CIA-40WebGUI: Fix a bad use test in Shop/Tax.t21:15
CIA-40WebGUI: Begin Tax.pm, using Class::InsideOut with a basic constructor and a session method.21:15
nubaGoogle Docs keeps track of every change in the doc, and when you choose to show a specific version it shows who did what.21:25
nubalet me just confirm it...21:26
nubais there any pastebin-like tool for screenshots ?21:28
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nubafound these http://imagebin.org/ http://imagebin.ca/ and http://www.imagebin.eu/21:48
CIA-40WebGUI: jt * r5458 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/t/Shop/Cart.t: base cart tests21:48
@rizenmethinks you should add those to the irc page in the wiki21:49
nubaand the creator of imagebin.ca is working on has this project too http://voicebin.ca/21:49
nubayeah I was already on my way to do that21:50
nubabut testing them first21:50
nubaall work great http://imagebin.org/14033 http://imagebin.ca/view/dk1Ua4ml.html http://www.imagebin.eu/pics/3c168b1f724c7fa24bb1a10bbb4fd874.jpg21:53
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CIA-40WebGUI: jt * r5459 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (10 files in 2 dirs): per colin's request design docs are included in the repo22:03
GooeyOfSteelWiki: IRC - Edited on 2/15/2008 1:55 pm by nuba  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/irc22:11
GooeyOfSteelWiki: Getting Started With Development - Edited on 2/14/2008 7:00 am by knowmad  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/getting-started-with-development22:11
GooeyOfSteelWiki: Override Core Modules - Created on 2/14/2008 7:00 am by knowmad  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/override-core-modules22:11
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nubai disabled the the wiki watch feature yesterday by accident when adding the meta generator info to the bot22:12
nubaall up now22:12
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wgGuest31i have serious problem with spectre22:46
wgGuest31when i start it i have the next error 'jsonToObj' will be obsoleted. Please use 'from_json' instead. at /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8/Config/JSON.pm line 13422:46
wgGuest31i have 7.4.21 installed 22:47
wgGuest31json again22:47
wgGuest31in that server i had installed json 2.6 and config::json 1.1.422:49
wgGuest31comparing with another server in the same version i noticed that the json version is 1.0 and the config::json is 1.1.122:51
wgGuest31and tried to install both old versions manually but the problem continues?22:51
wgGuest31what do you suggest me, upgrading to 7.3.24 would be the solution, or what else can i do?22:53
@rizenisawayupgrading to the latest 7.4.x version is your best bet22:57
wgGuest31i am going to do22:57
wgGuest31thanks again22:58
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+perlDreamerrizenisaway: if it's a big pain, then just leave the docs as opendoc.  I don't think you can build tables in POD.23:41
-!- rizenisaway is now known as rizen23:45
@rizentoo late23:45
+perlDreamerGot time for some tax talk?23:46
nubayou could keep the extracted open office file in svn23:46
nubaits xml23:46
nubaactually a bunch of xmls23:46
nubaand stuff23:46
nubabut then you can check out a version, compress, and open on OO23:47
+perlDreamerI'm thinking that the value combination of field and value needs to be unique.23:47
+perlDreamerso that you can't have state=WI more than once23:47
@rizenjust to protect people from themselves?23:47
@rizenactually i want to talk to you about that too23:48
CIA-40WebGUI: jt * r5460 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Cron.pm: additional health check23:48
CIA-40WebGUI: jt * r5461 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Cron.pm: merging changes from 7.5 branch23:48
CIA-40WebGUI: jt * r5462 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/ (11 files): easy docs23:48
CIA-40WebGUI: jt * r5463 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/ (8 files): removing generated images23:48
@rizeni was considering that you should be able to do a match against city+state = tax rate23:48
@rizenthat way you wouldn't have to type in all the zip codes for a city23:49
@rizenbut i couldn't figure out a way to make that work nicely for the user23:49
@rizencuz in many countries it would be city + country23:49
@rizenrather than city + state23:49
+perlDreameror city + county23:50
@rizenmaybe we better just leave it with zip codes23:50
@rizenmore precise23:50
+perlDreamerthat brings up my other idea23:50
--- Day changed Sat Feb 16 2008
+perlDreamerif we just use zip codes will that work internationally?00:07
@rizenyes, all countries have post codes00:07
@rizenat least all countries i've shipped to, which is more than 80 of them00:08
+perlDreamerthen we reduce the table schema just to taxId, zipCode and taxRate00:08
@rizencuz there are taxes you might apply per zip code00:08
@rizenbut there might also be state tax00:08
@rizenand there might also be country tax00:09
@rizenso if you put in a state tax of 5.000:09
@rizenand a particular county has a tax rate of 0.500:09
@rizenthen you just add in the post codes for that county at 0.500:09
@rizenand together it makes 5.500:09
@rizenget it?00:09
@rizenthat's why i designed it the way i did00:09
@rizencuz most of the time you can get away with just applying a tax rate for a country or state00:10
@rizenrather than individual zip codes00:10
CIA-40WebGUI: jt * r5464 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/ (cart.pod commerce.pod): seperated the cart doc out on it's own00:19
@rizenwebguidev hasn't had so much traffic since the late 6.x days00:24
+perlDreamerNope :)00:25
+perlDreamerI'm about to do a commit.  Please let me know if I've got the right idea for getItems00:25
@rizenhopefully us discussing stuff out there will inspire some others to help us00:25
+perlDreamerso minor questions here, major stuff out there, or do you want as much traffic as possible?00:26
@rizenwe can chat back and forth on here, as it's certainly quicker00:27
@rizenbut the more stuff we put out on the dev mailing list the more likely people will be to join us00:27
@rizencuz there aren't that many people in here00:28
@rizencompared to the dev mailing list subscribers00:28
@rizennot to mention the traffic to the web site that isn't subscribed at all00:28
+perlDreamerbut you can track that via page views00:28
@rizenwe had over 1 million page views last month00:28
@rizenthe largest month in our history00:28
CIA-40WebGUI: colin * r5465 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 00:32
CIA-40WebGUI: Add the tax table.00:32
CIA-40WebGUI: Add the getItems method, for accessing the entire tax table.00:32
@rizenyup, that looks right pd00:37
@rizenso are you doing development along side testing?00:37
+perlDreamerone method at a time00:38
+perlDreamertest first, then write the method00:38
@rizeni c00:38
@rizenis that how tdd is supposed to work?00:38
@rizeni thought you were supposed to write all your tests first00:38
+perlDreamerI think that's one style of doing it00:39
+perlDreamerI was reading the wikipedia article on it00:39
+perlDreamerWhat I'm doing is probably closer to the refactoring flow00:40
@rizenwell that's cool00:40
@rizenunfortunately i can't do that00:40
@rizenthe cart relies on the Sku object00:40
@rizenand the Product object00:41
@rizento succeed00:41
@rizenmaybe i should have started there00:41
@rizenbut the cart is my baby00:41
@rizenit's the one i spent the most time on00:41
+perlDreamerIt's all yours, I won't touch it00:42
@rizenthat's not what i mean00:42
@rizenjust i'm proud of how it's designed00:42
@rizeni think the process flow is so much more elegant than the current one00:43
+perlDreamerAre rates stored as multipliers, or as percentages?  5% vs 0.0500:45
@rizendon't care00:45
@rizenjust be consistent00:46
@rizenall of that info is handled inside the tax object00:46
@rizenso it doesn't matter what you do00:46
+perlDreamerOkay, I'll document it as percentage in the doc and the POD.00:46
+perlDreamerHumph, it says it right there.00:47
+perlDreamer"A percentage of the sale price to tax."00:47
* perlDreamer should be scolded for not reading the spec00:47
@rizenYeah, but the spec is only a guideline01:01
@rizendon't think it's written in stone01:02
+perlDreamerWhat's the sales tax in Wisconsin like?01:09
@preaction0.05 in most places01:09
@preactioni think madison has an additional 0.005 for the city01:10
@rizenmadison is a good example01:10
@rizen5% for state01:10
@rizen0.5% county (dane)01:10
@rizen0.05% city (madison)01:10
@rizendo you want some madison zipcodes to test with?01:11
@rizen53701 - 5371901:11
@rizen53703 is jt's zip01:11
@rizen53715 is plain black's zip01:11
+perlDreamerwe'll tax him more!01:11
+perlDreamerthen he can throw some tea in the lakes and declare independence from Dane county and make his own county01:12
@rizeni'm not activist enough to do that01:13
nubaRFE: make 53715 expose an easter egg in the commerce system01:14
+perlDreamerlet me guess, there's no 53715?01:15
+perlDreameroh, no01:15
+perlDreamerI need a break01:15
@preactionmake it change the cart style to black background, white and light-blue text01:15
nubayes there is http://www.plainblack.com/contact_us01:16
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+perlDreamerALL RIGHT!01:18
nubahave fun01:19
CIA-40WebGUI: jt * r5466 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (3 files in 2 dirs): started cart tests, realizing need to build sku first01:21
+perlDreamerOnly 88 commits to 555501:28
CIA-40WebGUI: colin * r5467 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 01:43
CIA-40WebGUI: Fix a bug in the upgrade script, with a default applied to the wrong column.01:43
CIA-40WebGUI: Built the add method, and tested it, too.01:43
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CIA-40WebGUI: colin * r5468 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Tax.pm t/Shop/Tax.t): Tax: add the delete method, with tests08:00
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