WebGUI irc logs from: 2008-02.log

--- Log opened Sun Feb 10 21:48:41 2008
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perlmonkey2	Oh man....this sucks. I deleted a webgui page that another webgui page was grabbing an RSS feed from. Now a few hours later the site is crashed and won't come back up. Mysql won't restart and modproxy.error.log is saying error reading status line from remote server	01:31
perlmonkey2	Where does the wre write the mysql error logs to, I don't see them in var/log	01:32
perlmonkey2	What does this mean when I try to manually start mysql? Starting MySQL ERROR! Couldn't find MySQL manager or server	01:36
@preaction	are you running the right environment?	01:39
perlmonkey2	network issues	01:46
* perlmonkey2 really really really wishes his client would have went with PB hosting.		01:46
perlmonkey2	although if you could point me at anything that could help me with WRE backups, I'd appreciate it. The wiki search didn't return anything.	01:47
@preaction	you mean automatic backups using wre/sbin/backup.pl?	01:50
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perlmonkey2	preaction: yes. The backup users doesn't have permissions, and I can't connect to the wre mysql with the mysql CL client.	02:27
@preaction	so you have a backup user, and in that user's cron you source in the WRE's environment and then run backup.pl?	02:29
@preaction	i think you have to do it as root probably	02:29
perlmonkey2	preaction: I am running the wre sbin/backup.pl as root, but the error is that the backup mysql user doesn't have permissions.	02:30
perlmonkey2	Couldn't connect to MySQL because DBI connect('test;host=localhost;port=3306','backup',...) failed: Access denied for user 'backup'@'localhost' (using password: YES) at /data/wre/lib/WRE/Mysql.pm line 93	02:30
perlmonkey2	at ./backup.pl line 79	02:30
@preaction	oh. you might need to set up that user, or use the root user	02:30
perlmonkey2	I would, but I can not connect to the mysql server with the mysql client.	02:30
perlmonkey2	Is there something I need to set up to connect to the wre instance of mysqld?	02:31
@preaction	not that i know of	02:31
@preaction	are you getting a permissions denied using the cli client too?	02:31
perlmonkey2	no, just	02:32
perlmonkey2	[root@li6-7 etc]# mysql -uwebgui -p	02:32
perlmonkey2	Enter password:	02:32
perlmonkey2	ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock' (2)	02:32
@preaction	you aren't using the right environment	02:32
perlmonkey2	DOH!	02:32
perlmonkey2	arg!	02:32
perlmonkey2	dumb, stupid perlmonkey2	02:33
perlmonkey2	I beg forgiveness for wasting your time.	02:33
@preaction	i need someone who isn't a mac fanboi to give an opinion on a Mac Mini	02:33
@preaction	it's about $1050 to get the one I want, tricked out with power, but i could probably fix my newly-broken computer for a tenth of that	02:34
@preaction	i'm just tired of dealing with computer hardware	02:34
perlmonkey2	A Mac Mini sounds cool	02:35
@preaction	1) Web / Internet 2) DVD / Music 3) Emulators 4) BitTorrent. the only problem is 4 requires massive amounts of hard disk space, which the mini don't have	02:35
@preaction	those are the 4 things my tv computer currently does	02:35
@preaction	i think i should move number 4 out to another, dedicated system	02:35
@preaction	i've got a computer that's been sitting dead for at least 4 months now, i could resurrect it with the parts from the TV computer	02:36
perlmonkey2	the mac mini's drive not only is small but it is slow.... at 5400 rpm laptop drive.	02:37
@preaction	i don't think the mini's designed with high performance in mind	02:38
@preaction	i think it's single-task oriented	02:38
@preaction	a mac pro would do the job, but those are even more expensive	02:38
perlmonkey2	I have a Q6600 4 GB DDR667, 350GB 7200 SATA2, with case for $700.	02:40
@preaction	you're selling?	02:40
perlmonkey2	no	02:40
perlmonkey2	hah	02:40
perlmonkey2	That's what I built it for	02:41
perlmonkey2	It is my main desktop/workstation	02:41
@preaction	i think i built my TV computer for about that. with twice the storage and half the RAM. $150 on the GFX card itself.	02:41
perlmonkey2	and that was like last August...things should be cheaper.	02:41
@preaction	that's just it though, building computers is boring. maintaining hardware is boring	02:42
@preaction	and frustrating	02:42
perlmonkey2	I agree	02:42
@preaction	just out of the blue the TV computer (selene) starts a spontaneous reboot cycle	02:42
perlmonkey2	but a lot cheaper	02:42
perlmonkey2	suck	02:42
@preaction	i'm willing to bet it's due to the cooling system dying	02:42
perlmonkey2	btb, where does the wre write the mysql logs too. It still wont' start up.	02:42
@preaction	or the power supply dying	02:42
perlmonkey2	power is likely	02:43
@preaction	should be /data/wre/var/mysqldata/something.err	02:43
perlmonkey2	cooling is easy to check....does it reboot right afte ryou start it, or after it is working.	02:43
@preaction	after it's working for a while, but hasn't finished the initial load. OS gets booted, XP starts and gets into explorer, then before it's done loading components and drivers and such, it bombs	02:44
@preaction	then it either gets a little less further next time, or just sits there spinning	02:44
perlmonkey2	sounds like power	02:44
@preaction	and the case i have under the TV has a special, tiny power supply... gotta find one of thems...	02:45
perlmonkey2	Hmm, ./wreservice.pl --start mysql	02:45
perlmonkey2	Start MySQL: FAILED!	02:45
perlmonkey2	Yet nothing in the mysql.err logs	02:45
@preaction	not that, using mysqld_safe or something	02:45
@preaction	that wreservice.pl script hides a lot of things	02:46
perlmonkey2	k, I'll try it directly	02:46
@preaction	might be in a log though, /data/wre/var/logs somewhere perhaps	02:46
perlmonkey2	No, nothing in the logs.	02:47
perlmonkey2	I'm running tail -f var/logs/*	02:47
perlmonkey2	[root@li6-7 mysql]# ./mysql.server start	02:47
perlmonkey2	Starting MySQL ERROR! Couldn't find MySQL manager or server	02:47
@preaction	mysql.server is a shell script, right?	02:50
perlmonkey2	I think it is the actual mysql binary...I'll open it	02:50
perlmonkey2	oh, sheel	02:50
perlmonkey2	wife is sick...brb	02:51
perlmonkey2	I bet this is because I changed the company name .... It went from working fine to a few hours later, not working and no one did anything.	03:01
@preaction	doesn't sound like that would screw things up	03:02
perlmonkey2	But mysql keeps failing to start and there is nothing in the logs	03:03
@preaction	it says something like "Couldn't find MySQL manager or server", which means that the shell script doesn't know where to look for the mysqld	03:04
perlmonkey2	but I've ran the setenv script	03:04
perlmonkey2	I can see the LD env params	03:05
@preaction	right, i had this happen to me once, and i don't remember how i fixed it or what was actually wrong	03:05
perlmonkey2	wow, this really sucks...I've got a client wondering what happened to his site.	03:05
@preaction	i just remember i looked in that script and echoed out the paths the script got	03:06
perlmonkey2	I guess I'll tell him he shoul dhave wnet with PB	03:06
perlmonkey2	k	03:06
perlmonkey2	I'll try that.	03:06
@preaction	did you try running /data/wre/prereqs/bin/mysqld_safe ?	03:06
perlmonkey2	not yet	03:09
perlmonkey2	something is horribly wrong.....	03:09
@preaction	that's the shell script i was talking about, not the other thing	03:09
perlmonkey2	okay, finally got the error output: 080210 20:12:42 [ERROR] /data/wre/prereqs/libexec/mysqld: Can't create/write to file '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.pid' (Errcode: 2)	03:13
perlmonkey2	080210 20:12:42 [ERROR] Can't start server: can't create PID file: No such file or directory	03:13
perlmonkey2	should I create a mysqld directory in /var/run?	03:13
perlmonkey2	what has happened?	03:14
@preaction	it shouldn't be trying to do that. you can specify on the command-line what you want the pid file to be i think. somewhere in that shell script is the key	03:14
perlmonkey2	But hwo would the my.cnf file be changed?	03:15
@preaction	it wasn't. that script can override the my.cnf file	03:15
perlmonkey2	wait a second.....there shouldn't be a my.cnf in /etc/	03:15
@preaction	no, there shouldn't	03:16
@preaction	it shouldn't be looking for one either. that script shouldn't have any reference to it	03:16
perlmonkey2	looks like my clients two bit hoster does one of those "reimages" where htey "auto-fix" anything tha tisn't normal.	03:16
perlmonkey2	removing the /etc/my.cnf fixed it.	03:17
@preaction	nice	03:17
perlmonkey2	the wre install isntructions say to copy it to .old	03:17
perlmonkey2	wow.....maybe it isn't too late for me to get them to move to PB.	03:17
@preaction	we have VPS at reasonable rates	03:18
perlmonkey2	the client didn't go with PB because of disk.	03:22
perlmonkey2	But if their two bit hoster can't stop playing with the os config files, it wont' matter how much disk they have.	03:23
perlmonkey2	well this is no good, the root password for mysql isn't working, now that i can connect.	03:34
@preaction	uhoh	03:34
-!- Samus_Aran [n=ILL@about/linux/supportwhirlwind/SamusAran] has joined #WebGUI		03:36
perlmonkey2	I can reset it, but how did it get changed :D	03:36
Samus_Aran	does anyone know why WebGUI might be running in ultra slow motion ? it is taking an average 5 to 10 seconds to load a page, on an unloaded server with tons of RAM	03:37
Samus_Aran	the spectre perl daemon keeps on ending up with hundreds of MiB of RAM used. and wait state is the main thing that seems to be shooting up in top	03:37
Samus_Aran	the apache processes are using little CPU themselves	03:37
Samus_Aran	I am using the latest stable release. I haven't used WebGUI since version 4.x, which was lightning fast even on an old system, so I'm not too sure what's going on now	03:38
perlmonkey2	hey, I'm having that exact same problem	03:39
perlmonkey2	Does the wre phone home and autoupdate?	03:39
Samus_Aran	perlmonkey2: hm	03:39
Samus_Aran	what is a wre ?	03:40
perlmonkey2	webgui runtime environment	03:41
Samus_Aran	ah. I don't know much about the WRE, as I installed manually. the server has other web sites and databases on it, so I can't use the WRE	03:41
+Radix-wrk	Samus_Aran: I'd highly recommend the wre if you want a fast/optimised webgui setup these days	03:41
Samus_Aran	Radix-wrk: we have only one server, and it already runs database and web content. not sure how the WRE could be usable in such a situation	03:42
perlmonkey2	Radix-wrk: I'm on my second server meltdown using the wre....never had any problems with source.	03:43
Samus_Aran	does anyone know if this ultra sluggy issue is just with the most recent release, or if it has been a problem for people for a while ? (or is it just me)	03:43
+Radix-wrk	Fair enough - though you may want to look at some of the settings for the wre and how it's set up to get an idea of how to optimise things	03:43
perlmonkey2	I can't log into the database with root, even though I reset the password	03:43
perlmonkey2	or at least think I did.	03:43
Samus_Aran	I followed the guide more or less exactly. it is up and running without visible errors	03:43
Samus_Aran	but the spectre script is using huge amounts of RAM, which doesn't seem normal to me. and there is apparently heavy disk writing, as the IO wait time goes up to 60% for many seconds after I do something on the WebGUI site	03:44
Samus_Aran	I don't mind up or downgrading if it might help	03:45
@preaction	what is spectre spinning its gears on?	03:45
Samus_Aran	I have no content yet ... but it took me ten minutes just to delete a couple items off the menus. =/	03:45
@preaction	if you turn off spectre, does the site respond faster?	03:45
Samus_Aran	preaction: I thought spectre was required for it to run. or is it only required for versioning ? I will most likely not be using versioning on this site, just server backups	03:46
Samus_Aran	I will try closing spectre	03:46
@preaction	spectre is required for executing workflows and scheduled tasks (which spawn workflows). it's the offline execution engine.	03:46
@preaction	things will work without it, but some things won't happen unless it's running	03:46
@preaction	like sending mail	03:46
@preaction	or committing version tags	03:46
Samus_Aran	well, the contact form needs to e-mail the message	03:47
Samus_Aran	does that use spectre ?	03:47
@preaction	even if you're not using versioning, you may need spectre (if your default workflow is not "Commit Content Immediately")	03:47
@preaction	yes	03:47
@preaction	we're trying to narrow down the list of possible causes here	03:47
@preaction	so we turn off spectre, and then try loading pages	03:47
@preaction	what kind of system are you running this on? 1Ghz / 1Gig are about the minimum i would attempt to run WebGUI on these days	03:48
Samus_Aran	I did "perl spectre.pl --shutdown" and continued to use the web pages. it is still the same slow speed	03:48
Samus_Aran	dual 1.6Ghz, 1GiB RAM	03:48
@preaction	okay. how's vmstat look? are we swapping in and/or out?	03:49
Samus_Aran	preaction: that is a pretty sad minimum requirement. sigh. I guess I should have researched before trying WebGUI 7.x	03:49
@preaction	why? webgui is huge. and in order to get quicker responses it does a lot of caching, both on-disk and in-memory	03:50
Samus_Aran	the Linux kernel caches things very well, caching by the app will only end up swapping to disk	03:50
@preaction	it caches mysql queries? perl object instanciation?	03:51
Samus_Aran	files	03:51
Samus_Aran	other PHP code that uses databases on this system is instantaneous. page loads in under .1 second	03:51
Samus_Aran	minimum 5 seconds on WeGUI currently, with an average of around 8 seconds	03:51
Samus_Aran	sometimes 20-30	03:52
@preaction	you can't compare "other PHP code that uses databases" to "WebGUI". they're entirely different beasts	03:52
Samus_Aran	also spectre is often using up 8-10% CPU when no page requests are going on, that seems quite excessive for a background monitoring daemon	03:52
@preaction	WebGUI has an average of 30 db reads and 1 write per request	03:53
@preaction	it's not a monitoring daemon, it's an offline execution daemon	03:53
Samus_Aran	so long as the database is left open, that would still be nearly instantaneous on this system	03:53
@preaction	it runs things that would cause browsers to time-out or that users don't want to see running	03:53
@preaction	which is why we're troubleshooting, no?	03:53
Samus_Aran	which way do you want me to check the vmstat you asked about ?	03:54
@preaction	i just wanted to see if your box was swapping. that could cause significant delays and IO wait. are you running webgui in its own apache or alongside mod_php and others?	03:55
@preaction	you're using prefork right?	03:55
Samus_Aran	preaction: (regarding the multiple database queries, one of the other sites here sometimes has dozens of database queries per hit as well, always under half a second)	03:56
Samus_Aran	apache you mean ?	03:56
Samus_Aran	apache2-mpm-prefork is already the newest version.	03:57
Samus_Aran	that's what is on there now	03:57
Samus_Aran	the server is running Ubuntu 6.06 LTS	03:57
Samus_Aran	Apache/2.0.55	03:57
@preaction	okay. now, you're using PerlRequire /data/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl right?	03:57
@preaction	you're also using Apache2::Reload to make sure the apache processes don't get out of control, right?	03:59
Samus_Aran	http://rafb.net/p/iJzHcV35.txt << this is the virtual host	03:59
Samus_Aran	(I replaced the domain name with "foo")	03:59
@preaction	er.. sizelimit, right. not reload	04:00
Samus_Aran	how would I check about Apache2::Reload ?	04:00
@preaction	don't worry about it, devs would use it	04:00
@preaction	bad for production servers	04:00
@preaction	uhm... WebguiRoot is /data/WebGUI but PerlRequire /var/www/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl ? where is WebGUI really?	04:01
@preaction	how many megs are these apache processes taking up? shouldn't be any more than 80 or 90M	04:01
Samus_Aran	WebGUI is installed to /var/www/WebGUI. for each place the documentation mentioned a path in a file, I updated it accordingly	04:01
Samus_Aran	Apache2::Reload is up to date (0.09).	04:02
Samus_Aran	(from cpan	04:02
Samus_Aran	)	04:02
@preaction	so why PerlSetVar WebguiRoot /data/WebGUI ?	04:02
Samus_Aran	http://rafb.net/p/mh7NHq38.txt << apache processes	04:03
Samus_Aran	it is ? I redid the virtual host at some point after I messed things up, I may have missed it the second time. goes to look	04:03
Samus_Aran	how could it run without that being set ?	04:04
Samus_Aran	I have adjusted it now, restarting apache	04:04
Samus_Aran	I have noticed since restarting Apache that the initial apache process, the one run by root that I assume spawns the others, is sitting there using CPU (3-10% average)	04:11
Samus_Aran	hm	04:11
Samus_Aran	no change in page loading/editing speed	04:12
@preaction	i would say the problem is probably that since WebGUI isn't the only thing being done by that apache, it doesn't keep a lot of the WebGUI stuff in-memory (frees space to be used to load other scripts)	04:14
@preaction	is this a production box? could you test with only webgui vhost on?	04:14
@preaction	i run the WRE, so i got no clue. but you could run the WRE's mod_perl instance behind your own apache running mod_proxy (much like the WRE does)	04:14
Samus_Aran	it is a production box, however the organisation is not large, and it only really needs to be functional during weekdays	04:15
+Radix-wrk	I use the wre, but have a separate apache install for php websites and use the wre's modproxy to do the work	04:15
Samus_Aran	so I could try something else right now	04:15
+Radix-wrk	so mod_perl for webgui is on port 81, mod_php on port 82, etc	04:16
+Radix-wrk	does the webgui admin guide have much info on tuning apache/mod_proxy?	04:17
@apeiron	Radix-wrk, So the mod_proxy server receives all the requests on 80, and then forwards internally to 81 or 82, etc., es?	04:17
@apeiron	s/es/yes/	04:17
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Samus_Aran	I am willing to try the WRE in that way. didn't know it could co-exist with a regular Apache/PHP/Perl/MySQL setup	04:19
@preaction	yeah. the WRE is two apache instances: one mod_proxy, one mod_perl. i've had a few people forgoe the mod	04:20
@preaction	_proxy one and just run the mod_perl one	04:20
+Radix-wrk	the biggest issue is more with mysql - as it won't co-exist with another instance	04:24
+Radix-wrk	I switched distro's mysql databases over to the wre one myself, but you can do it the other way if you want too	04:25
+Radix-wrk	that's the only hassle with co-existance really though	04:25
@preaction	yeah, shouldn't matter if you do or do not use the wre's mysql really	04:26
@preaction	hell. you might be able to get by just by stealing the modperl.conf file out of the WRE and running it with your own apache	04:26
@preaction	whether it's the WRE's apache or not shouldn't matter. just give webgui its own dedicated bit of apache + memory (2 processes perhaps)	04:27
+Radix-wrk	I run my wre on a virtual server with 256mb ram myself - seems to run fine	04:28
@preaction	how much cache does mysql have? 300M+?	04:28
+Radix-wrk	I did tweak the mysql settings down a bit to compensate, but juga.biz is still pretty fast	04:28
+Radix-wrk	I forget what I actually changed tho :)	04:29
+Radix-wrk	http://webgui.pastebin.com/m715140a5 - that's a copy of my my.cnf file with 256MB ram	04:33
Samus_Aran	okay. I was away a bit, back now.	04:49
Samus_Aran	preaction: how do you think I should proceed at this point ?	04:49
Samus_Aran	trying a manual install of the latest beta or using the WRE with my existing setup, or ?	04:49
@preaction	see how well webgui runs when it's the only thing on the apache server, probably by making a seperate apache instance that only runs WebGUI (on a different port)	04:50
Samus_Aran	I don't mind turning off Apache/MySQL/etc. for testing	04:50
@preaction	well, it's not spectre, you could probably turn that back on	04:51
Samus_Aran	will try the WRE in /data/WebGUI then	04:51
@preaction	wait, what?	04:51
Samus_Aran	mm ?	04:52
Samus_Aran	I was going to turn off MySQL and Apache and try the WRE by itself, to check perormance	04:52
Samus_Aran	*performance	04:52
@preaction	ok	04:52
Samus_Aran	is wre-0.8.1-ubuntu-6_server-ia32.tar.gz the correct file ?	04:54
@preaction	probably. are you running a 32-bit cpu?	04:54
Samus_Aran	yes	04:54
Samus_Aran	the install notes have conflicting information about the directory structure underneath /data	05:04
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Samus_Aran	the non-symlink instructions will end up with /data/wre and the symlink instructions will give you /data/wre/wre	05:04
Samus_Aran	I assume with only one "wre" is the correct structure	05:04
Samus_Aran	"Create your DNS entries (or add entries to /etc/hosts) for the sites you will be using, including the AWStats site."	05:06
Samus_Aran	what is AWStats ?	05:06
@preaction	it's an apache log analyzer	05:07
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Samus_Aran	preaction: I was away, back to trying out the WRE now. I thought it came with its own MySQL ? it is saying when going through the web based installer that it couldn't connect to a MySQL server	06:58
Samus_Aran	Couldn't connect to MySQL because DBI connect('test;host=localhost;port=3306','root',...) failed	06:59
Samus_Aran	I shut down MySQL and Apache, and renamed the my.conf file, prior to running this installer	06:59
@preaction	it does, did you start it? are you running the right environment? before working with the WRE stuff you need to source in ". /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment.sh"	06:59
@preaction	(the space between the . and / is important)	07:00
Samus_Aran	I did "source setenvironment.sh" prior to starting the web installer	07:01
Samus_Aran	which should be the same as .	07:02
@preaction	what does wreservice.pl --ping mysql say?	07:02
Samus_Aran	I have both /data/WebGUI and /data/wre, is that correct ?	07:04
Samus_Aran	Ping MySQL: FAILED!	07:05
@preaction	that means the wre's mysql isn't up or can't be reached	07:06
Samus_Aran	I would like to find out why it can't start it	07:07
@preaction	try doing "mysqld_safe"	07:07
Samus_Aran	I didn't change any of the MySQL settings other than the passwort	07:07
Samus_Aran	mysqld_safe from where ?	07:07
Samus_Aran	nevermind, it's in the path after the source environment thing	07:09
Samus_Aran	anyhow, I went back to the other screen, and it has error messages about setting up MySQL. looking over them now	07:09
Samus_Aran	ERROR: 1 Can't create/write to file '/data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql/db.MYI' (Errcode: 13)	07:10
Samus_Aran	080210 20:57:49 [ERROR] Aborting	07:10
Samus_Aran	not sure why it couldn't create it	07:10
Samus_Aran	I ran the script as root	07:10
@preaction	does mysqldata/mysql exist?	07:11
Samus_Aran	drwx------ 2 webgui root 4.0K 2008-02-10 20:57 /data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql/	07:11
Samus_Aran	odd permissions, root is the group, but it should ignore the "no write permission"	07:12
Samus_Aran	any suggestions ?	07:14
Samus_Aran	When I run mysqld_safe I get the following:	07:20
Samus_Aran	Starting mysqld daemon with databases from /data/wre/var/mysqldata	07:20
Samus_Aran	STOPPING server from pid file /data/wre/var/mysqldata/my_hostname.pid	07:20
Samus_Aran	080210 21:19:37 mysqld ended	07:20
Samus_Aran	and there are no MySQL processes running	07:20
Samus_Aran	I found an error log file with this in it: [ERROR] Can't start server : Bind on unix socket: Permission denied	07:21
@preaction	check in /var/mysqldata/*.err	07:21
Samus_Aran	[ERROR] Do you already have another mysqld server running on socket: /data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql.sock ?	07:22
Samus_Aran	that's from that error file you mentioned	07:22
Samus_Aran	there are no processes with "my" in it	07:22
Samus_Aran	in the command name, I mean	07:22
Samus_Aran	I didn't get an answer from you above about the structure of /data. is there supposed to be /data/wre or /data/wre/wre ? and should there be a /data/WebGUI directory as well ?	07:24
Samus_Aran	the documentation has errors in it regarding this	07:24
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@preaction_	it should be /data/wre and /data/WebGUI. no /data/wre/wre	07:28
Samus_Aran	is there some way to track down why it thinks that it has already started its MySQL server ?	07:30
Samus_Aran	looked through the running processes and see the previous spectre.pl still running. closed that now	07:32
Samus_Aran	made no difference	07:33
Samus_Aran	I just realised that /data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql.sock does not exist	07:35
Samus_Aran	it's not that something else is using it, it was just never created	07:35
* Samus_Aran sighs		07:37
Samus_Aran	starting over	07:39
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Samus_Aran	the web installer asks for a MySQL username and password. I changed the password, and then it doesn't work. it works with the default password	07:45
Samus_Aran	why does it give you the option to change the password if it is not going to be using it ?	07:46
@preaction_	the error that happened about starting the server probably caused the wreconsole to not update the password	07:46
@preaction_	it has to be able to start the mysqld in order to change the password	07:46
Samus_Aran	but the only change I made was this time not changing the password -- and then MySQL started fine	07:47
@preaction_	mysql doesn't need a password to start	07:47
@preaction_	who knows what happened, the point is you could change that password now if you wanted to	07:48
Samus_Aran	there is nowhere in the web interface that I see to change the password, only the setup	07:52
Samus_Aran	when I click on Spectre in the list of services tab, it says starting, and then goes back to a [Start] button	07:55
Samus_Aran	no errors	07:55
Samus_Aran	the other services started	07:55
Samus_Aran	sorry, there was an error, just couldn't see it, it was so small: "Spectre did not start successfully.	07:56
Samus_Aran	"	07:56
Samus_Aran	"to_json" is not exported by the JSON module	07:56
Samus_Aran	Can't continue after import errors at ../lib/Spectre/Cron.pm line 22	07:56
Samus_Aran	sigh. I can't add a site using the web interface. I don't know the MySQL password	07:59
Samus_Aran	I thought it was qwe123	07:59
Samus_Aran	123qwe ...	08:03
Samus_Aran	anyhow, the WRE's Spectre is broken	08:08
Samus_Aran	it has issues with its own Perl modules	08:08
Samus_Aran	assuming that the JSON thing is part of the WRE	08:08
Samus_Aran	when I try to connect to the new WebGUI site I get: Bad Gateway - The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.	08:09
+Radix-wrk	the mysql password is specified when you first installed the wre	08:13
Samus_Aran	I know, but it wouldn't let me change it, so I used the default, which I didn't remember	08:13
Samus_Aran	this is an absolute nightmare to set up compared to WebGUI 4.x	08:14
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+Radix-wrk	agreed - though admittedly it's changed hugely since version 4 too	08:14
Samus_Aran	all of the UI changes I have seen thus far I find to be far worse	08:14
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+Radix-wrk	that said.. I've had no problems installing a wre system out of the box within 10 minutes in the past	08:14
Samus_Aran	on the old versions it was clear to a new user where to go to get things done	08:15
Samus_Aran	now the menus are utterly confusing	08:15
Samus_Aran	something as simple as adding a content item to a page is confusing	08:15
+Radix-wrk	why?	08:15
+Radix-wrk	it's pretty easy.. click new content on the left, and select what object you want	08:15
Samus_Aran	the UI says it is adding a new page when you do that	08:16
+Radix-wrk	everything is a "page" in webgui	08:16
+Radix-wrk	every object has it's own url	08:17
preaction__	version 5 added the "asset" system, no?	08:17
preaction__	or was it 6.x series?	08:17
preaction__	there have been so many changes, Samus_Aran, you may as well treat it as an entirely different system	08:17
Samus_Aran	I'm talking about a section on a page. the things you drag around	08:17
preaction__	they are pages too	08:18
preaction__	they have urls	08:18
Samus_Aran	a column or section	08:18
preaction__	you can go to just them	08:18
Samus_Aran	well that is extremely messed up	08:18
preaction__	and that is an extremely obtuse opinion	08:18
+Radix-wrk	Actually I tend to agree there to a certain extent.. I wish pages were the only thing that had urls	08:18
+Radix-wrk	but that said, it's never really bothered me	08:19
Samus_Aran	it is entirely counter-intuitive	08:19
preaction__	only container assets?	08:19
+Radix-wrk	I just don't care what urls objects have, as long as my pages have the urls I want	08:19
preaction__	so message boards, page layouts, and wikis	08:19
+Radix-wrk	they're the only ones that appear in navigation items anyway	08:19
preaction__	but how do you get to a wiki page then?	08:19
preaction__	myWikiUrl?node=something?	08:19
preaction__	that's ugly	08:20
preaction__	how do you get to a forum post? myMessageBoard?collab=id;thread=id;post=id?	08:20
preaction__	that's better than myMessageBoard/collab/thread/post?	08:20
+Radix-wrk	I think of pages, forums, etc as containers	08:20
preaction__	what if i think of a thread as a container? do i lose out?	08:21
preaction__	is a calendar a container or can their event be containers too?	08:21
+Radix-wrk	well I find it all pretty confusing actually :)	08:21
preaction__	i agree it can be counter-intuitive, even backwards, but everything in the system has a URL, no matter what	08:22
preaction__	would you prefer a query string or something friendly?	08:22
preaction__	bonus: we don't use mod_rewrite to do it	08:22
Samus_Aran	I am considering going back to 4.x. It worked, was fast and did the things I needed it to do	08:23
preaction__	4.x even still works as a CGI, instead of mod_perl	08:24
+Radix-wrk	Samus_Aran: that's a shame - there's a lot to love in the new versions imho	08:24
+Radix-wrk	version control for one	08:25
+Radix-wrk	depends what you're after though I guess	08:25
Samus_Aran	version control is another example of how confusing WebGUI 7.xi s	08:30
Samus_Aran	*7.x is	08:30
Samus_Aran	I tried to use it and immediately the whole site was destroyed	08:30
Samus_Aran	didn't even have a template	08:30
preaction__	buy the content manager's guide perhaps?	08:30
Samus_Aran	I shouldn't have to purchase a book to use an open source product. WebGUI 4.x was easy to use with the help at the time	08:31
preaction__	Samus_Aran, then keep pushing on, eventually you'll understand it	08:31
Samus_Aran	and I would have to justify the book purchase and it would take at least a week	08:31
preaction__	you don't need to purchase the book, it just makes it easier	08:31
Samus_Aran	I don't have a week to sit on my hands	08:31
Samus_Aran	I would find a versioning system the same as a Wiki quite useful. WebGUI seems to use some other strange system	08:33
Samus_Aran	plus there is no description of how to use it from the actual page. I clicked on the first item in the list and it promptly destroyed the whole WebGUI install	08:34
preaction__	no, it didn't. unless you clicked a big red X	08:35
Samus_Aran	I believe it reverted to a pre-install state	08:35
Samus_Aran	I was trying to reset some changes I had done, to see how it worked	08:36
preaction__	and i don't believe you. any deleting of a version tag or any content pops up a javascript alert box saying "Are you sure?"	08:36
Samus_Aran	but it erased everything, including the template	08:36
Samus_Aran	the site wasjust white after that	08:36
Samus_Aran	*was jsut	08:36
Samus_Aran	*just	08:36
preaction__	so you had rollback version tag?	08:36
preaction__	the current one, the Autotag for Admin?	08:36
Samus_Aran	there was one item in a list, I clicked on rollback, assuming it would rollback to the base-install time	08:36
Samus_Aran	or whatever the feature is that I thought was a rollback	08:37
preaction__	what list? what item? under the Version Tags icon of the Admin Console?	08:37
Samus_Aran	I am not sure from my memory	08:37
Samus_Aran	I can't even load the WRE version of WebGUI	08:37
Samus_Aran	Bad Gateway	08:37
preaction__	the white page was probably the URL you were on disappearing, since you deleted the content	08:37
Samus_Aran	The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.	08:37
Samus_Aran	it still had a basic menu, but there was no longer any template	08:38
preaction__	means the proxied server isn't running. the proxy can't reach the server it's trying to reach	08:38
preaction__	so there was a menu on the left side with a list of a bunch of stuff, right?	08:38
preaction__	plus maybe a list in the larger area on the right perhaps?	08:38
Samus_Aran	I am talking about clicking on something about versioning on the left administrator menu, then on the right page that loads, choosing the only version listed, then telling it to use that one	08:39
Samus_Aran	and it proceeding (after the JS warning) to erase everything	08:39
Samus_Aran	what sort of performance can be expected from a WebGUI install that is actually working properly ?	08:40
Samus_Aran	on WebGUI 4.x on a crappy old computer running Debian where I was testing it, it ran extremely fast with 8-10 users	08:41
preaction__	we run 50-60 webgui sites on 2x2.4Ghz / 4G servers running CentOS 5	08:41
preaction__	we run servers with 30,000+ registered users on one of those boxes, dedicated	08:41
Samus_Aran	this was back in 2002 or 2001 I think. whenever 4.x was around	08:41
preaction__	load stays less than 0.5, response times for a 300kB page are around 10 seconds	08:42
+Radix-wrk	you seen demo.plainblack.com?	08:42
Samus_Aran	are you saying you dedicate a dual 2.4Ghz system to 1 site ? or 50-60 sites ?	08:42
Samus_Aran	yes, I have used the demo	08:42
+Radix-wrk	50-60 sites	08:42
preaction__	we've got one box with 80 sites, and that stays at about 2 load. we dont' monitor that one anymore (the owner was told of the consequences of having more than 70 sites)	08:42
preaction__	both. 1 site with 30,000+ registered users	08:43
preaction__	and 50-60 smaller sites	08:43
Samus_Aran	10 seconds response time for LAN access is ludicrous	08:43
preaction__	i'm talking internet	08:43
preaction__	i don't live in the datacenter	08:43
preaction__	i have DSL. 100kB/s when i'm not using it for other purposes	08:44
Samus_Aran	I mean, we will be updating and using the site on a LAN. 300KiB in 10 seconds is only 30KiB/sec, which I assume you have way more bandwidth than that	08:44
Samus_Aran	so the bottleneck is CPU	08:44
Samus_Aran	or disk access	08:44
preaction__	if there was a CPU bottleneck, the load would be far higher than .5	08:44
Samus_Aran	even our basic business DSL account gets use 60KiB/sec upstream	08:44
Samus_Aran	*gets us	08:44
preaction__	okay. we must be talking two different languages here	08:45
Samus_Aran	so why then does it take 10 seconds to load a page ?	08:45
preaction__	I... Me personally... do not live anywhere near the datacenter we use	08:45
Samus_Aran	do you have broadband ?	08:45
Samus_Aran	if so, it should make no difference	08:45
preaction__	I... Me personally... at my home... have a crappy DSL connection that is being 75% used by bittorrent at all time.	08:45
+Radix-wrk	our webgui server is a 3GHz P4 with 1GB ram - that runs a website with about 9300 users (who access it rarely) and over 5200 assets and it's on our lan and I usually get a page in a second or two at most.	08:46
preaction__	i will load the site i am talking about right now and report on the time it takes	08:46
+Radix-wrk	that's our website, intranet, extranet, users account server, all in one	08:46
Samus_Aran	I would like to find out why my manual install of WebGUI was going in slow motion on an otherwise unloaded server	08:47
Samus_Aran	if you're saying it should now be that way	08:47
Samus_Aran	but I would also like to know why spectre was using hundreds and hundreds of megs of RAM	08:47
preaction__	if you want support, plain black offers ad hoc login support at reasonable rates	08:47
Samus_Aran	and the apache threads were using almost 100MiB each	08:47
preaction__	i've explained the apache threads to you already: mod_perl, WebGUI, mod_php, etc... all take up memory	08:48
preaction__	the reason we use Apache2::SizeLimit is because mod_perl doesn't seem to like cleaning up after itself. apache also, because it kills its own children after so many connections / so much time	08:48
preaction__	Apache2::SizeLimit is just more efficient and more configurable about how the processes die	08:49
Samus_Aran	what is an empty WebGUI site doing that requires more than half a gig of RAM ?	08:49
Samus_Aran	my fresh install was using around 650MiB RAM in total	08:50
preaction__	it's not half a gig. WebGUI before it forks (mpm_prefork) takes about 70M (that's apache process + perl code + memory cache)	08:50
preaction__	70M per process	08:50
preaction__	* 5 processes (apache's default StartServers)	08:50
Samus_Aran	and 350MiB for spectre	08:50
preaction__	350M	08:50
preaction__	spectre grows slowly, usually due to errors talking to WebGUI	08:51
Samus_Aran	it had only been running, idle, for 2.5 days	08:51
Samus_Aran	I worked on it on Thursday	08:52
Samus_Aran	and then again now on Sunday	08:52
Samus_Aran	if it keeps growing, how does a hosted WebGUI server manage to not constantly run out of RAM ?	08:52
Samus_Aran	cronjobs to kill and restart the service constantly ?	08:53
+Radix-wrk	spectre is using 20mb on my server and 58-68mb for each apache process	08:53
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+Radix-wrk	load average is 0.05 for me	08:53
Samus_Aran	Radix-wrk: how long has spectre been running ?	08:53
+Radix-wrk	up 34 days	08:54
preaction__	if there are problems connecting to WebGUI, it slowly grows.	08:54
+Radix-wrk	that's with a stock wre install that I compiled myself	08:55
preaction__	we restart it on the demo box because when demo sites are removed, it needs to be restarted	08:55
+Radix-wrk	that's running on a via C7 1Ghz processor with 1GB ram - and is my home router/gateway/pc	08:56
preaction__	it's been more than 3 hours of you complaining about WebGUI. if you want real support, Plain Black offers it. if you follow the advice i've given you, others have given you, and the instructions, you can fix your problems.	08:56
Samus_Aran	this is my WRE, by default without any modifications: 37080+504+34544+57988+57672+57668+57668+57668+57668+2248+2432+2328+2328+2328+2332+2264	08:56
Samus_Aran	and no spectre, as it won't load	08:57
Samus_Aran	434720 KiB	08:57
Samus_Aran	RSS column of PS, grepping for things from /data/	08:57
Samus_Aran	preaction__: you stopped answering my questions about an hour ago	08:58
Samus_Aran	preaction__: I don't think you owe anything to me, but don't say that I wasn't following	08:58
Samus_Aran	I was trying my very best to try everything you said I should try	08:58
Samus_Aran	and your help is very much appreciated	08:58
Samus_Aran	Spectre will not load for me with a stock WRE	08:59
Samus_Aran	it complains about JSON	08:59
Samus_Aran	and I can't connect to the WebGUI site I added, with the above proxy error	08:59
+Radix-wrk	there's some stuff in gotchas.txt about JSON I seem to recall	09:00
* Samus_Aran goes to look		09:00
preaction__	the 0.8.1 WRE needs updated JSON and Config::JSON. this will be fixed in WRE 0.8.2	09:00
+Radix-wrk	stable version of webgui doesn't like newest version of JSON - and new 7.5.1 version fixes it or something	09:00
preaction__	no. latest stable (7.4.22) and latest beta (7.5.1) both need JSON 2.04 and Config::JSON 1.1.4	09:01
Samus_Aran	"to_json" is not exported by the JSON module	09:01
Samus_Aran	Can't continue after import errors at ../lib/Spectre/Cron.pm line 22	09:01
Samus_Aran	is the error	09:01
+Radix-wrk	run testEnvironment.pl	09:01
preaction__	won't work. you need to force install Config::JSON	09:02
Samus_Aran	Config::JSON is up to date (1.1.4).	09:02
Samus_Aran	when I did the manual install, testEnvironment.pl found every module it checked, other than one which it would always say it didn't find, even though it was installed	09:03
Samus_Aran	though I thought the WRE contained the complete Perl environment ?	09:03
preaction__	spectre is being run under the WRE? you're running testEnvironment.pl under the WRE's environment? what does echo $PATH say?	09:03
Samus_Aran	I haven't run testEnvironment.pl from the WRE	09:03
preaction__	did you run cpan from the WRE's environment?	09:04
Samus_Aran	you mean the all-in-one WRE is distributed broken ?	09:04
Samus_Aran	that rather defeats the purpose of an all-in-one download with all the servers	09:05
+Radix-wrk	it just needs a few updated perl modules for the newer versions that've come out since it was released	09:05
Samus_Aran	I am updating the modules using the testEnvironment.pl script. hopefully that will place the modules in the correct perl	09:07
preaction__	it only will if you tell it to	09:08
Samus_Aran	what do you mean ?	09:08
preaction__	it will put the modules in the correct place for the perl that is running	09:08
Samus_Aran	the perl that is running is whatever perl the testEnvironment.pl script launched	09:09
+Radix-wrk	you need to use ". /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment"	09:09
Samus_Aran	with the setenvironment.sh run first	09:09
Samus_Aran	yes	09:09
Samus_Aran	*sourced, not run	09:09
+Radix-wrk	as long as 'which perl' comes up with the one in the /data/wre directory you're fine	09:10
Samus_Aran	it has already installed at least a dozen Perl modules	09:13
Samus_Aran	prereq's for the JSON update	09:13
Samus_Aran	hm, a lot more than a dozen. maybe 40. it's just whipping through them	09:15
Samus_Aran	Checking for module Config::JSON: 1.1.1 is installed, but we need at least 1.1.2, do you want to upgrade it now? {y\|n} [y]	09:20
Samus_Aran	Going to read /root/.cpan-webgui/Metadata	09:21
Samus_Aran	Config::JSON is up to date.	09:21
Samus_Aran	so if cpan doesn't have it, how do I get 1.1.2 as needed ?	09:21
preaction__	you want 1.1.4. cpan does have it. you need to force install it	09:22
+Radix-wrk	I think it might be a bug in 1.1.1 - it reports itself as 1.1.4 or something	09:24
Samus_Aran	okay, done	09:24
Samus_Aran	only one not OK now is:	09:25
Samus_Aran	Checking for module Graphics::Magick: Not Installed, but it's optional anyway	09:25
Samus_Aran	I would like that to be installed, but it doesn't seem to have a cpan listing. I installed it through Ubuntu	09:25
preaction__	you want image::magic, not graphics::magick	09:25
Samus_Aran	I think it requires a full ImageMagick to be installed	09:26
Samus_Aran	image::magic or magick ?	09:26
preaction__	magick	09:26
Samus_Aran	Image::Magick is up to date.	09:26
preaction__	so you're fine	09:26
Samus_Aran	when I did the manual install, I got Graphics::Magick installed, so that the testEnvironment.pl script gave it an OK	09:27
Samus_Aran	are you saying the script is checking for something that is not used ?	09:27
preaction__	that's the "but it's optional anyway" part	09:27
+Radix-wrk	Graphics::Magick was added for FreeBSD I seem to recall.. which had problems with imagemagick	09:27
Samus_Aran	I would like all features to be available, is what I mean	09:28
preaction__	yah, but apeiron got IM compiling under WRE for FreeBSD so we don't need GM anymore	09:28
Samus_Aran	e.g. Aspell is also optional, but I installed it	09:28
+Radix-wrk	you won't need it	09:28
Samus_Aran	okay, thank you	09:28
preaction__	it uses one or the other, not both. if you have IM, it uses that. otherwise it tries to use GM. if it doesn't find either, it dies	09:28
Samus_Aran	okay, everything seems to be working now. Spectre started successfully	09:29
Samus_Aran	I still get the other error when trying to access the domain, though:	09:29
Samus_Aran	Bad Gateway	09:29
Samus_Aran	The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.	09:29
preaction__	as i said before: it means that the proxy server can't connect to the server it's supposed to be proxy for	09:30
Samus_Aran	isn't the server it is supposed to connect to the apache running in the WRE ?	09:30
preaction__	is the modperl server running?	09:31
Samus_Aran	which is running on the default ports during the install	09:31
Samus_Aran	everything is running now	09:31
preaction__	did you add any sites?	09:31
Samus_Aran	MySQL, Apache Modperl, Apache Modproxy, Spectre, WRE Console	09:31
Samus_Aran	I added one site	09:31
preaction__	and that hostname is resolvable? can you connect to the modperl server directly using its port?	09:32
Samus_Aran	I am stopping all the servers now, and restarting them	09:33
Samus_Aran	yes, DNS is fine	09:33
+Radix-wrk	try going to www.site.com:81	09:34
preaction__	WRE 0.8 uses 8081 now	09:34
+Radix-wrk	or whatever port you set modperl to be on	09:34
+Radix-wrk	okay.. 8081 then	09:34
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Samus_Aran	'objToJson' will be obsoleted. Please use 'to_json' instead. at /data/wre/sbin/wreconsole.pl line 312	09:36
Samus_Aran	Can't locate object method "autoconv" via package "JSON" at /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/JSON.pm line 122.	09:36
Samus_Aran	is that error important ?	09:37
Samus_Aran	not the deprecation part, but the autoconv	09:37
preaction__	depends, what are you doing?	09:37
preaction__	are you running 7.5.1 or 7.4.22?	09:37
Samus_Aran	that was from the wreconsole.pl	09:37
Samus_Aran	it died	09:37
Samus_Aran	it dies when I go to the Settings tab of the web setup interface	09:38
preaction__	yeah, it's going to do that until 0.8.2 is released	09:38
Samus_Aran	okay	09:38
Samus_Aran	I also don't like that it added a ServerAlias automatically. I just realised that the regular web site would not be offline, it would be mapping to this beta sub-domain	09:40
Samus_Aran	which seems quite wrong	09:40
Samus_Aran	joe.mysite.com should not automatically show up at mysite.com	09:41
preaction__	submit an RFE	09:41
Samus_Aran	that defeats the whole purpose of sub-domains	09:41
Samus_Aran	perhaps if the subdomain is "www" then it would be an alright default	09:41
Samus_Aran	though a redirect is the proper way to handle that, not a ServerAlias	09:41
Samus_Aran	ServerAlias's should pretty much not ever be used	09:42
Samus_Aran	otherwise Google and such will end up with two copies of the site	09:42
Samus_Aran	preaction__: to your question, I am on 7.4.22	09:44
Samus_Aran	er, I think I am. I was when I manually installed it	09:44
Samus_Aran	now I'm on whatever the WRE installed	09:45
Samus_Aran	I didn't see it mentioned	09:45
Samus_Aran	is the mod proxy on 8081 allow access from anywhere, or just LAN ?	09:45
Samus_Aran	and would I use the foo-server name or the domain name ?	09:46
Samus_Aran	I am working remotely. I did an SSH tunnel to access the foo-server:60834 at work	09:47
Samus_Aran	would I need a similar tunnel for 8081, or should going to the domain name (which has proper DNS to the computer in question) be enough ?	09:47
preaction__	it's meant to allow access from the box itself, localhost. not sure what your firewall allows	09:52
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Samus_Aran	I mean should I be able to access it using foobar.com:8081 ?	09:59
Samus_Aran	I can not currently	09:59
Samus_Aran	and yes, foobar.com's DNS does point to the appropriate IP and it is forwarded to the server in question	10:00
Samus_Aran	or is it	10:00
* Samus_Aran goes to check the catch-all		10:00
Samus_Aran	okay, forwarded a port manually and now I get to a login when going to the 8081 prot	10:08
Samus_Aran	*port	10:08
Samus_Aran	how can I fix the proxy so that I get to the site setup thing not on port 8081 ?	10:09
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SDuensin	Greetings.	15:52
ckotil	good morning	15:52
SDuensin	Howdy.	15:53
nuba	morning	15:58
AMH_bob	mornin'	16:13
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BartJol	morning everyone	16:51
perlmonkey2	preaction: Wanted to thank you for all your help yesterday.	17:15
@preaction	morning	17:19
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perlmonkey2	what would you think is wrong with the wre if netstat -ap returned about 15 pages of this: http://pastebin.com/d52d7b70c	17:37
nuba	google docs now has forms to help the everyman collect data into spreadsheets http://www.google.com/google-d-s/whatsnew.html	17:40
nuba	in a certain way, it sounds like a Thingy (Lite Edition)	17:41
nuba	things would become more interesting the moment they start allowing people to link data from one spreadsheet to another	17:43
perlmonkey2	hah, I was just wondering if they had an api for it :P	17:43
nuba	there you go http://code.google.com/apis/spreadsheets/overview.html	17:45
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perlmonkey2	Ah, should there be a webgui user in the mysql.user table for the wre install?	18:19
perlmonkey2	I have 4 users, root, test, backup and ''	18:19
perlmonkey2	oh....no it is a random string...I'm guessing tha tis the webgui user.	18:20
perlmonkey2	nm :)	18:20
@preaction	each site has its own db user, which the wre system creates with that random string	18:22
perlmonkey2	Do these start up wre log errors look fatal or abnormal? http://pastebin.com/d36421f85	18:25
BartJol	you can find it in your config	18:25
BartJol	sorry, i should mind my own business	18:25
perlmonkey2	BartJol: ??? why? I appreciate anyone's help	18:26
BartJol	yeah, but i'm only confusing you right now	18:26
perlmonkey2	No, I know what you mean.	18:26
BartJol	by using the wre, you create a config, so you can't look it up	18:26
perlmonkey2	It's in the Webgui/etc/.conf :)	18:27
BartJol	yeah that one :)	18:27
BartJol	but dies anyone here now a thing or two about scratch variables?	18:27
perlmonkey2	I'm on like hour 10 of trying to figure out why when webgui starts it creates 400 or so localhost tproxy connections, and would try to make more, but for os limits.	18:28
BartJol	does not dies	18:28
perlmonkey2	BartJol: I dream of the day when I can quit my job and learn all about webgui.	18:28
BartJol	well, I'm allowed to spend a couple of hours a week programming	18:29
BartJol	for my amusement and learning curve	18:29
BartJol	but about the connections, I'm afraid I don't know	18:30
perlmonkey2	completely driving me insane...the error logs are worthless.	18:30
perlmonkey2	Is this a bad thing to see in the wre error logs: Compilation failed in require at /data/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl line 72.	18:36
BartJol	well	18:37
BartJol	not really	18:37
perlmonkey2	I just don't get it......everything was working fine. Nothing changed, but all of a sudden it wasn't.	18:37
BartJol	mostly a script that is handled by perl and has some strange mistakes in them can give that	18:38
perlmonkey2	the wre doesn't auto-update does it?	18:38
BartJol	nop[e	18:38
BartJol	you did do " .setenvironment.pl"	18:38
BartJol	i suppose	18:39
perlmonkey2	yes	18:39
perlmonkey2	every time I'm starting something I do that.	18:39
BartJol	can't do that often enough it seems	18:39
perlmonkey2	heh, my path is like 400 lines long now I'v ran it so much.	18:40
BartJol	but does the log also refer to another script?	18:41
perlmonkey2	?	18:41
BartJol	or does your modperl log say something about it	18:41
perlmonkey2	that is the error log for mod_perl	18:41
perlmonkey2	just I'll relook	18:41
BartJol	ah, darn	18:41
@preaction	you might want to try running preload.perl by itself quick	18:41
perlmonkey2	BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm line 21.	18:42
perlmonkey2	Compilation failed in require at /data/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl line 72.	18:42
perlmonkey2	is the full line.	18:42
perlmonkey2	okay preaction I"ll try that.	18:42
@preaction	ha	18:42
@preaction	Image::ExifTool <- you're missing that i think	18:42
@preaction	when you see BEGIN failed -- compilation aborted, try doing a: cd /data/WebGUI/lib; perl -c WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm	18:43
@preaction	that'll show you the real error	18:43
perlmonkey2	I'm missing a lot of files	18:44
perlmonkey2	I get a lot of those.	18:44
perlmonkey2	Can't locate Image/ExifTool.pm	18:44
@preaction	which means you're missing that perl module	18:44
perlmonkey2	Actually , if no one complains about the spam:	18:45
perlmonkey2	Can't locate Image/ExifTool.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/5.8.8/i686-linux /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/5.8.8 /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/i686-linux /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8 /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl .) at WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm line 21.	18:45
perlmonkey2	BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm line 21.	18:45
perlmonkey2	preaction: But how could I be missing it, if I'm using the wre?	18:45
@preaction	it's a new requirement	18:45
@preaction	after 0.8.1 was released	18:45
perlmonkey2	I'm just not sure how I got a version of webgui tha tneeds something the wre didn't supply. and why it worked for a long time then stopped working.	18:46
perlmonkey2	Should I update the wre?	18:46
@preaction	there is no 0.8.2	18:46
perlmonkey2	wreupgrade.pl	18:46
perlmonkey2	oh.	18:46
perlmonkey2	ah.	18:46
perlmonkey2	so the wre is broken?	18:47
perlmonkey2	and somehow I got an update of webgui that needs something that the wre doesn't have?	18:47
@preaction	no. it's just missing some new developments in WebGUI	18:47
perlmonkey2	oh...so this isn't the fatal issue I'm having?	18:47
@preaction	this is the fatal issue you're having. even the WRE's installation instructions suggest running testEnvironment.pl	18:48
* perlmonkey2 has soooo much to learn about WebGUI.		18:48
* perlmonkey2 has money if you have a WG dev guide beta book :D		18:50
@preaction	dev guide doesn't cover this stuff. this is admin guide stuff	18:50
@preaction	dev guide covers coding and API	18:51
perlmonkey2	yeah, something I would have instantly caught if I wasn't useing the WRE.	18:51
perlmonkey2	I just assumed that there could not be any perl lib issues with the WRE.	18:51
@preaction	you could probably post a bug as a reminder to JT to include that module in the WRE 0.8.2 when he's ready	18:51
perlmonkey2	there are like 5	18:51
perlmonkey2	modules that failed	18:52
@preaction	Archive::Any, Image::ExifTool, are the two i know of	18:52
perlmonkey2	oh	18:52
perlmonkey2	those are the two I have	18:52
@preaction	those are the two i added for the Gallery	18:53
perlmonkey2	with broken cpan requirements trees	18:53
perlmonkey2	thanks :D	18:53
@preaction	the updated JSON and Config::JSON, but i think there's already a bug out there about those	18:53
perlmonkey2	yeah, that seems fixed.	18:53
perlmonkey2	I just don't get how it worked on my system, then stopped working without an upgrade or anything.	18:53
* perlmonkey2 just realized he's updating perl in /usr/lib instead of /dat		18:54
nuba	happens	18:55
nuba	sometimes	18:55
perlmonkey2	oh, no I'm not....setEnv , duh	18:55
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+perlDreamer	whoa!	18:56
+perlDreamer	It's xdanger	18:56
+perlDreamer	he's back	18:56
+perlDreamer	(at least in bot form)	18:56
perlmonkey2	preaction: that didn't fix things, but it made the error logs a lot cleaner: http://pastebin.com/d12e825f9	18:57
@preaction	if your server reached MaxClients, with no users, you have a problem. modperl's httpd.conf is at /data/wre/etc/modperl.conf	18:58
perlmonkey2	that error log is associated with about 400 tproxy localhost connections creating and dieing as fast as the OS can do it.	18:58
nuba	sounds like fun.. not.	18:59
perlmonkey2	hah......more than mere words can express :)	18:59
nuba	perlmonkey2: you can add something like this to setenv: export PS1="now im setenv'ed - $PS1"	19:01
perlmonkey2	nuba: I know I have the env correct. But I manually ran preload.perl and got this: Starting WebGUI 7.5.0	19:02
perlmonkey2	Can't locate object method "server" via package "Apache2::ServerUtil" at preload.perl line 80.	19:02
perlmonkey2	is that just because I'm running it manually?	19:02
+perlDreamer	yeah	19:02
perlmonkey2	the modperl.conf looks completely normal. I just wish there was some sort of error output for what is going on.	19:03
nuba	i suppose you have enabled more verbose logging for apache?	19:03
perlmonkey2	nope...thanks I'll look up how to do that :)	19:04
nuba	if not thats a way to troubleshooting	19:04
nuba	run a single apache instance as well	19:04
nuba	enable mod_status	19:04
nuba	let me see..	19:04
BartJol	hi perldreamer	19:06
nuba	i have modperl.error.log and modproxy.error.log on /data/wre/prereqs/apache/logs	19:06
+perlDreamer	Yo, BartJol	19:06
BartJol	my macro works	19:06
+perlDreamer	Awesome!	19:06
nuba	thats 0.7 wWRE	19:06
BartJol	now I have to extend it, because it works on every reload i believe	19:06
+perlDreamer	huh?	19:06
BartJol	that's a bit to much, so, i will incoporate a scratch variable	19:06
perlmonkey2	nuba: that tree doens't exist in 8.1. I'll see if I can find where apache is now.	19:06
BartJol	you mean it is cached?	19:07
nuba	you can try "find /data/wre -name modperl.error.log"	19:07
+perlDreamer	If you have admin mode turned on, caching is disabled.	19:08
+perlDreamer	But then it would transfer karma on every page load	19:08
+perlDreamer	so a scratch variables could be good.	19:08
BartJol	yeah, and if the session is longer than the cache time out, it also runs too often	19:08
BartJol	and 1 more thing, it should not work when the current user is also the owner of an object	19:09
perlmonkey2	nuba: I ran from wre/ find . -depth\|grep .log$ and no appache.error.log showed up. Only var/logs with modproxy and modperl	19:09
+perlDreamer	that's pretty easy to detect	19:09
BartJol	I know	19:10
BartJol	something like WebGUI::Session->getUserId	19:10
+perlDreamer	$session->user->userId	19:10
BartJol	and a new session object, I'm not using that currently	19:12
BartJol	I'm stupid	19:12
BartJol	first shift	19:12
BartJol	always	19:12
+perlDreamer	every macro gets a session sent to it automatically	19:12
BartJol	I realise that now	19:13
BartJol	the last one is already implemented	19:16
BartJol	scratch variable not yet, but first I'm gonna have dinner\	19:16
BartJol	maybe tonight if I really don't feel like preparing a presentation on the commerce system	19:18
+perlDreamer	The commerce system is going to change	19:18
BartJol	yeah, that's what the presentation is about	19:19
BartJol	the 44 page pdf is already in my bag	19:19
BartJol	but I'll be back to annoy you soon :)	19:21
* perlmonkey2 installed all the perl reqs in cent 5.1, I'll see if I can do it in cent 5.0		19:21
@preaction	BartJol, you're doing the presentation on the new commerce? nice	19:21
BartJol	you at Arjan's place	19:21
BartJol	united knowledge	19:21
BartJol	not at the wuc	19:22
BartJol	if I come it will be on the use of macro's	19:22
@preaction	oh	19:22
@preaction	:p	19:22
BartJol	maybe I can do 2	19:22
BartJol	will it be ready?	19:23
BartJol	:)	19:23
BartJol	otherwise it is a bit of a roadmap talk	19:23
@preaction	i think that's why rizen is offline presently, besides the convention he was just at	19:24
+perlDreamer	Well, I think the new commerce idea of basing all currency on the rupee is wrong.	19:24
@preaction	WDK and Commerce are his two goals for the next couple months	19:24
+perlDreamer	It's pretty stable wrt the dollar and the Euro, but still.	19:24
@preaction	Rupees are the new currency! they're good enough for Link	19:24
BartJol	well, I'll think about it, first have a look whether I can come at all	19:29
BartJol	bye	19:29
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@apeiron	Dangit, I'm doing one on commerce. I refuse to give up my talk on one of the Next Big Things in WebGUI.	19:32
@apeiron	I didn't want to give up a talk on the nonexistent API of Thingy, do you think I'm going to give up one on Commerce?	19:32
@preaction	uhm... no?	19:32
@preaction	i wonder which ones i'm going to have to give up	19:33
@preaction	i don't want to give up any either	19:33
@preaction	there's no Thingy API? there's no way to plug-in different kinds of handlers or something?	19:33
@apeiron	JT said to me in email "There's no pluggable API for thingy".	19:35
@apeiron	This was after I said I didn't want to give up that talk. :)	19:35
@preaction	damn...	19:35
@preaction	who knows, maybe it won't need one	19:36
@preaction	but technically there's no pluggable API for the Gallery currently. you have to edit the Gallery itself to plug-in a new File type	19:36
@preaction	i suppose i should start pondering that eventually	19:36
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template	20:09
+perlDreamer	"there is no spoon"	20:09
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template	20:10
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template	20:10
+perlDreamer	CIA-21: you've got the squirts	20:10
* perlmonkey2 really wishes WG didn't use Apache::Request2		20:16
+perlDreamer	what should it use instead?	20:16
perlmonkey2	something that most linux distros support out of the box instead of requiring a PhD in operating systems to install.	20:17
@preaction	Apache2::Request is part of mod_perl and libapr	20:17
+perlDreamer	yeah, yum it	20:17
+perlDreamer	I haven't needed to compile anything for Fedora for a very long time	20:17
@preaction	or apt-get, or emerge, whatever your distro does	20:17
+perlDreamer	well, until the wre	20:18
+perlDreamer	but the WRE comes with everything except for some of the modules	20:18
+perlDreamer	perl-libapreq2	20:19
+perlDreamer	that's from FC6, and it should be the same on RHEL 5/CentOs/SciLinux	20:20
perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: this is cent	20:20
+perlDreamer	4 or 5?	20:20
perlmonkey2	5	20:21
perlmonkey2	I have apr, apr-devel, mod_perl, mod_perl-devel, apache, apache-devel	20:21
perlmonkey2	it makes, but failes on make test.	20:21
perlmonkey2	I'm just an idiot....test suites were failing because I was root.	20:24
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template	20:27
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2: Here's someone else's experience with libapreq2 and CentOs 5	20:29
+perlDreamer	https://webwork.maa.org/moodle/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=5717	20:29
perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: You see what I said above? I was running the test suites as root.	20:30
perlmonkey2	which is a big nono	20:31
perlmonkey2	my own fault	20:31
perlmonkey2	but all the libs are built now. So I can move my wre install to a source install and see if the network issues continue.	20:31
perlmonkey2	what is funny is the way I'm having to do the mp3 rss feed for the client, it would have worked the same if we had used PB hosting and a 5/month hoster for disk, and about $10/month cheaper.	20:32
@preaction	pb does offer disk space upgrades. they should be in the store	20:38
perlmonkey2	They found some hoster that gave 100GB for $7.99/month or some such.	20:39
perlmonkey2	and most of the VPS's they wanted gave 15GB to 20GB for $30-$40/month.	20:39
perlmonkey2	I really wish I could offload this project onto PlainBlack :D	20:40
nuba	perlmonkey2: i just tried some cheapass hosting which gave me 120GB/8.99/mo	20:41
nuba	where i was dumping my backups	20:41
nuba	next thing is they block the account a couple of weeks afterwards, saying that it goes against their TOS	20:42
perlmonkey2	nuba: My plan was an XML::RSS daemon on the cheapass server up the mp3/video to the WG server.	20:42
perlmonkey2	nuba: yeah, what I was figuring.	20:42
perlmonkey2	no one gives that much disk away	20:42
nuba	i somehow talked my way out of that and told them I planned to serve these "machine snapshots" to my friends	20:42
nuba	in a website	20:42
perlmonkey2	sucker you in with lies and then it is too painful to leave.	20:42
nuba	as of yet, its still on, that was a couple of months ago	20:43
nuba	I told them I was just the sysadmin, and the user was another guy, and that I would forward the warning but "please send me the part of your TOS with the wording that says I cant do that"	20:44
nuba	i never heard back from them with the wording	20:44
nuba	checked the TOS myself, found nothing	20:44
nuba	so all ok until now, of course they can just change the TOS and ruin the party if they want to	20:44
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template	20:54
perlmonkey2	hah, I think I know what is going on.	20:55
perlmonkey2	this is classic	20:55
perlmonkey2	the rss feed on the front page is grabbing an rss producing collab object on another page. That collab object is now gone.	20:55
nuba	gremlins?	20:55
perlmonkey2	but the rss feed is hammering the server trying to get that feed	20:56
perlmonkey2	that just makes me sad	20:56
nuba	isnt that a bug?	20:56
perlmonkey2	a huge one	20:56
perlmonkey2	that has wasted maybe 24 solid hours of my time I didn't have to waste.	20:57
nuba	hammering the server until it gets the feed it wants	20:57
perlmonkey2	I'm not 100% sure that is the problme	20:57
perlmonkey2	but once I commit the removal of the rss feed, I'll know for sure.	20:57
perlmonkey2	if I can get to the commit page.	20:57
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2: iirc, Spectre does the RSS prefetch	20:58
+perlDreamer	so disabling that workflow may immediatly reduce your load	20:59
perlmonkey2	spectre isn't running ....	20:59
perlmonkey2	I'll try to commit the changes which remove the rss feed and then disable that workflow	20:59
perlmonkey2	do workflows do anything when spectre isn't running?	21:01
+perlDreamer	they shouldn't	21:01
perlmonkey2	would it be the EMS Precache?	21:01
@preaction	do you have a Syndicated Content wobject? if there is no RSS prefetch, then the SC asset tries to do i t	21:02
@preaction	workflows can run without spectre. spectre just tips them off. WebGUI does the real work	21:02
perlmonkey2	yes	21:02
+perlDreamer	it's the GetSyndicatedContent Workflow activity that prefetches RSS	21:03
perlmonkey2	that has to be what is happening.	21:03
perlmonkey2	and the wobject shows locked and all versions committed.	21:03
CIA-21	WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template	21:03
@preaction	wtf is CIA on a loop or something?	21:04
@apeiron	I think it's subtly trying to tell us how important that commit is.	21:04
@preaction	it's not being very subtle about it	21:05
nuba	well at least its not flooding the channel	21:05
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@apeiron	preaction, http://code.google.com/p/cia-vc/issues/detail?id=2	21:07
@apeiron	Seems other people are seeing this too.	21:07
perlmonkey2	the explosion only happens when I go to the I have a SC that is locked on the front page. I'm 99% sure it is the problem. How do I unlock it? Spectre is running.	21:07
@preaction	perlmonkey2, you have to wait for spectre to process the commit	21:08
@preaction	cia.vc seems to be only partially reachable at the moment. so i don't know if i can even remove the bot	21:09
nuba	most repeated revisions by CIA bots, from my partial irclogs:	21:09
nuba	hq% grep -E '< CIA.* \* r.' \#webgui.200 \| awk '{print $7, $5}' \| uniq -c \| sort -rn \| head 6 r5413 graham 6 r5207 jt 3 r5255 doug 3 r5209 jt 2 r5391 doug 2 r5292 jt	21:09
nuba	oops some linebreaks are missing there	21:10
nuba	6 r5413 graham	21:10
nuba	6 r5207 jt	21:10
* apeiron would rather the paste be on one line than flood the channel. :)		21:10
nuba	heh true	21:10
perlmonkey2	wow	21:11
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perlmonkey2	so the SC was the problem	21:11
perlmonkey2	don't ever have an SC pointing at a bad uri....or at least one you own, cause it will DOS yoru machine.	21:11
nuba	rank of revisions where CIA bots got stuck, NOW ON PASTEBIN! http://webgui.pastebin.com/m26f05bef	21:12
nuba	graham's r5413 is in a tie with JT's r5207 in the first place	21:14
nuba	im rooting for graham, hes such a bug fixing whiz!	21:15
nuba	go graham go	21:15
nuba	>cause it will DOS yoru machine.	21:16
nuba	dont forget aobut DOSing someone else's machine	21:16
perlmonkey2	nuba: well that would have been btter...they could have blocked the requests and let me know I was DOS'ing them.	21:19
perlmonkey2	instead the machine just died.	21:19
perlmonkey2	wow, that bug just cost me a lot of money	21:21
perlmonkey2	suck	21:21
BartJol	does a scratch variable just have 1 value, that can be altered?	21:22
BartJol	oh and hi guys	21:22
BartJol	or can it contain more values?	21:22
+perlDreamer	you'd have to manually serialize it yourself, BartJol	21:22
BartJol	serialize?	21:23
+perlDreamer	transform from multiple values into 1 value (like a string)	21:23
BartJol	ah	21:23
BartJol	because I just want to store the visted url's in a session	21:24
BartJol	so I have to make a variable each time an url is visited?	21:24
+perlDreamer	Something has to keep track of where the user has been and how long ago	21:25
+perlDreamer	Kind of sounds like the passive profiling system	21:25
BartJol	well, the time is not very interesting to me	21:25
+perlDreamer	is it one time ever?	21:25
+perlDreamer	only once?	21:25
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BartJol	yes, well at least, one per session	21:26
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BartJol	one for always is also possible, but then I have to store it somewhere	21:26
BartJol	in the db	21:26
BartJol	that would be a disc consuming business	21:27
@preaction	session->scratch is cleaned up when the session is cleaned up	21:27
BartJol	I know, but that is no really objection to me	21:27
* perlDreamer lunches		21:27
nuba	BartJol: you need to keep track of it in the cookie?	21:28
BartJol	no, in a session	21:28
nuba	BartJol: would storing a row with (date, userid, pageurl) in a DB work for you?	21:28
BartJol	well, only when it's done when my macro is axecuted, not on page loading	21:29
nuba	you could regularly expire old records	21:29
nuba	and its simple to do that with a macro	21:29
BartJol	can it be done within the api?	21:30
BartJol	I rather not do it by writuing directly into the db	21:30
BartJol	then I may have to reprogram it for a new version	21:31
BartJol	you know what my macro is doing?	21:32
nuba	well I wold create another DB instead of using WebGUI's	21:32
nuba	and there, create a table	21:32
nuba	then theres this, i dont know what you want to do with this data	21:32
BartJol	well	21:32
nuba	if you use your DB, your table, your SQL queries wont change	21:33
BartJol	it's an AddKarma macro, to be executed within a template	21:33
nuba	unless you change your DB schema	21:33
BartJol	I'll keep it in mind	21:33
BartJol	thanks	21:33
nuba	so you wont have to change it every time WebGUI is released	21:33
nuba	with a change in the DB	21:33
BartJol	but it should give karma to the owner of an asset when it's visted	21:34
BartJol	and I want to implement, that it is possible only once per session	21:35
BartJol	for one asset	21:35
nuba	so you want the macro to know what asset it is being called from?	21:35
BartJol	so I'd like to store the url, so it can check whether the asset is already visited	21:35
BartJol	yes, but that part is already working	21:36
BartJol	the url (or in the future you can also choose the Id) is given with the macro by a tmpl_var	21:37
nuba	sounds interesting. would be great if there was a "run on session expire" feature in webgui.	21:37
nuba	like event handlers	21:38
BartJol	but maybe I should also build a choice that it is only possible once per asset revision or asset	21:38
BartJol	but a db creation is quite usefull, especially for the last option	21:40
BartJol	will be difficult to check revisions	21:40
BartJol	and i also have to keep the user visitor in mind	21:42
nuba	you can store the session hash as well	21:42
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nuba	instead of the user. or both.	21:43
nuba	if tracking users is of relevance	21:43
wgGuest88	hello	21:43
BartJol	hi	21:43
BartJol	well that was why i limiting it to sessions	21:44
nuba	BartJol: gimme a sec.	21:44
BartJol	sure	21:44
BartJol	what's up wgGuest 88?	21:44
wgGuest88	i have a question related to the sql forms, when i go to a sql form, it shows the search template as default	21:45
BartJol	yes	21:45
wgGuest88	can i change it to show to the template that have the fields to add a new record?	21:46
BartJol	I suppose so	21:47
wgGuest88	how can i change it?	21:47
wgGuest88	do you know?	21:47
BartJol	oh, there is only one opption, but you did create a new template?	21:48
BartJol	or do you mean the template that is shown while creating the form?	21:49
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wgGuest81	hello	21:49
wgGuest81	bartJol, now i am wgGuest81	21:50
BartJol	i suspected already	21:50
BartJol	did you get the last remark?	21:50
wgGuest81	i need to put the template that shows the form as a default when someone go to the sql form	21:50
BartJol	mmm, I should make an sql form myself, to test it	21:51
wgGuest81	ok	21:51
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nuba	BartJol: i added this line to my site's modproxy apache config file: CustomLog /tmp/BartJol.log "%{wgSession}C %h %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %b"	21:54
nuba	then head -1 /tmp/BartJol.log	21:54
nuba	lGtANrQ0lwU2sHC00wBSEw 201.78.30.151 - - [11/Feb/2008:17:24:49 -0200] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 18738	21:54
wgGuest43	hi	21:54
nuba	so you could keep track of urls being visited in a session this way too	21:54
BartJol	and how do I check that from within the macro	21:55
nuba	write to a log, then process/rotate it with a cron job	21:55
wgGuest43	i try to run spectre.pl and Displays the following error: 'jsonToObj' will be obsoleted. Please use 'from_json' instead. at /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8/Config/JSON.pm line 134	21:55
BartJol	mmm sounds possible, but maybe a bit above my knowledge right now	21:56
wgGuest43	how i can fix this?	21:56
BartJol	oh joy JSON again	21:56
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wgGuest25	hi	21:57
nuba	maybe it should be added to the topic. "jsonToObj errors? update JSON and Config::JSON!"	21:57
@khenn	the JSON issue will need to be fixed. It shouldn't cause any problems though	21:57
@khenn	just make sure you are running WebGUI 7.4.22	21:58
BartJol	but I will try to help on the sql issue of wgguest 81/88 template thingy	21:58
@apeiron	Hmm, if memory serves that's a warning not an error, yes? The "'jsonToObj will be obsoleted'"	21:58
BartJol	with emphasise on try	21:59
nuba	another good one for the topic: "Something broke? Did you check docs/gotcha.txt?"	21:59
@khenn	yes , it's a warning	21:59
@khenn	nothing breaks	21:59
@khenn	log it as a bug on pb.com if it's not already there	22:00
wgGuest25	yes a warning	22:00
wgGuest25	but, i don't see my webpage	22:00
wgGuest25	i saw in blank	22:01
@khenn	that's not because of spectre	22:01
@khenn	that's a different problem	22:01
wgGuest81	BartJol, if a call a macro in a template and it returns a collections or records, is posible to show a list of this record directly in the template?	22:01
@khenn	check the the modproxy logs	22:01
BartJol	wgguest 81, sorry, I have some issues creating another database, I'm a bit of a sql newby	22:03
wgGuest81	ok	22:04
BartJol	still trying though, have to learn	22:05
wgGuest81	hello all	22:07
metanil	<tmpl_var form.start> will return the form tag with its proper action.. with i found it doesn't have name.. how can i able to give a simple name to this form.. (implicitly in form.start)	22:07
wgGuest81	if a call a macro in a template and it returns a collections or records, is posible to show a list of this record directly in the template?	22:08
@preaction	you can't. you could write your own form.start though (in the template)	22:08
Samus_Aran	preaction: are you around today ? I could use a bit of help if you are	22:08
@preaction	wgGuest81, macros are processed after the template is processed. dunno if that answers your question	22:08
@preaction	Samus_Aran, can't. taking lunch and buying compy parts	22:08
* preaction &		22:08
metanil	preaction, you mean 'template' i could see 'form.start' in the template itself. there must be some .pm file which drives this.. is it?	22:10
Samus_Aran	Radix_: or you, as you mentioned using the proxy thing. I would like to use the WRE with the pre-existing Apache, using a mod_proxy to hand off requests as appropriate	22:10
Samus_Aran	preaction: no problem. enjoy	22:10
wgGuest81	preaction, if a put the macro in the beggining of the template, it will be executed after the template, too?	22:10
BartJol	yes	22:11
@khenn	metainl	22:12
@khenn	:	22:12
@khenn	copy the html from <tmpl_var form.start>	22:12
@khenn	then go into the template	22:12
@khenn	remove <tmpl_var form.start>	22:12
@khenn	paste in what it was printing out	22:12
@khenn	and modify as necessary	22:12
@khenn	don't change the action	22:12
@khenn	then you can name it whatever you want	22:12
BartJol	mmm, mysql won't let me create the db and I don't rmember the db admin passwd comination... so I'm afraid I can't help you at the moment wgguest 81	22:13
@khenn	you don't need to modify the core of WebGUI to make template changes	22:13
BartJol	have to fix that first	22:13
Samus_Aran	does anyone else know anything about using the WRE alongside an existing Apache/Perl/MySQL install ?	22:13
BartJol	and I like to improve my macro, which also eats time	22:13
Samus_Aran	as the manual install runs in ultra slow motion for me, quite unusable	22:14
@khenn	I know it can be a pain to install manually.	22:14
Samus_Aran	or is there simply some way I can test the WRE on an alternate port ?	22:14
@khenn	but you know that too	22:14
metanil	khenn, i am thinking of changing WebGUI::Form::formHeader.. .. is it ok?	22:14
wgGuest81	thanks BartJol	22:14
@khenn	no	22:14
@khenn	don't change that	22:14
@khenn	next upgrade you'll lose your changes	22:15
@khenn	just replace <tmpl_var form.start> with raw HTML	22:15
Samus_Aran	I got it installed manually quite well, without any issues I thought, but then it was going in slow motion. 10 to 30 seconds to load any page, on an unused server	22:15
@khenn	as long as you have the same action, it will be fine	22:15
@khenn	Samus, it could be a number of things	22:15
Samus_Aran	so now I want to try the WRE. almost got the WRE working on the weekend, but couldn't access the site through the proxy	22:15
metanil	hmm.. thanks khenn..	22:16
@khenn	it could be: the number of child processes in apache	22:16
@khenn	I believe WebGUI itself uses 3	22:16
Samus_Aran	I reduced the children, as they were using tons of RAM	22:16
@khenn	what did you reduce it to?	22:17
Samus_Aran	it was at 8 or 10 I think, and each was using around 78MiB RAM	22:17
@khenn	I think I run my dev server at 5	22:17
Samus_Aran	which seems highly excessive	22:17
metanil	khenn, what if that template is used by several pages???	22:17
Samus_Aran	the server is a dual-CPU 1.6Ghz with 1GiB RAM currently	22:17
@khenn	metanil: what is the action?	22:18
@khenn	on each of the pages	22:18
@khenn	is it posting to itself?	22:18
@khenn	if so, use the page macro as the action	22:18
@khenn	Samus: have you checked DNS	22:18
metanil	its the page which add this template	22:18
@khenn	we had issues a few weeks back where the server wasn't recognizing DNS	22:18
@khenn	which was causing every image to load ultra slow	22:18
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@khenn	Haarg would know more about the DNS stuff than I would	22:19
metanil	khenn, like /home/music/genre/form	22:19
@khenn	I think we had to explicitly put something in /etc/hosts	22:19
metanil	for this will only work for form page right?	22:19
@khenn	metanil: I think the page macro should work fine	22:19
@khenn	I can't remember what it is	22:19
metanil	ummm.. yaa. that would be great.	22:19
@khenn	though	22:19
@khenn	just set the action of the form to the page macro	22:19
metanil	(why didn't i think about it before)	22:19
Samus_Aran	khenn: MinSpareServers 2, MaxSpareServers 4, MaxClients 20	22:20
metanil	khenn,, and macro will return exact page url, right	22:20
wgGuest81	BartJol, can you help me tomorrow with the sql form?	22:20
wgGuest81	i am going to test at night and if a get something i will tell you tomorrow	22:21
BartJol	well other people know more about it	22:21
wgGuest81	Who?	22:21
Samus_Aran	khenn: and I added a MaxRequestsPerChild 300, as I was concerned about a memory leak such as was present with spectre (using 350MiB RAM after 2 days)	22:22
BartJol	but tomorrow I'm only available til 6 pm cet	22:22
wgGuest81	ok	22:22
BartJol	well, I suspect everyone :)	22:22
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@khenn	metanil: the macro will return the page it's on	22:23
@khenn	so that actually might not work	22:23
Samus_Aran	khenn: my Apache threads normally use 4.3MiB RAM, and with WebGUI that goes up to around 78MiB each. it seems that WebGUI does not play well in a shared environment	22:23
@khenn	unless the asset itself is the page	22:23
@khenn	if that's the case, it'll work great	22:24
@khenn	if the asset is on a page	22:24
BartJol	wgGuest81, dapperedodo and Mr Hairgrease know a lot about it, but are on holidays right now	22:24
@khenn	then the post will not work correctly when on the page	22:24
Samus_Aran	as there are other web sites, which will now use tons of RAM even serving simple HTML pages	22:24
metanil	hmm.. ya.. i think so..	22:24
BartJol	but they have a site	22:24
@khenn	Samus: here's what I would recommend doing	22:25
perlmonkey2	is there anyway to have cgi-bin be a functional scriptalias passthru? I can't seem to make it work.	22:25
@khenn	download the latest WRE and install it on a test box (or virtual machine)	22:25
@khenn	then look at how we've configured apache / mod perl / etc	22:26
BartJol	sorry wgGuest81, I was mistaken, it was on the sqlreport and in dutch.. which might cause some trouble	22:26
BartJol	but it is www.sqlreport.org	22:26
@khenn	I run on the WRE 0.81 on a P3 550 with only 512 megs of ram	22:26
@khenn	and it's actually pretty fast	22:26
@khenn	so it's definitely something with your configuration	22:27
@khenn	oh I'm running on Centos	22:27
@khenn	I also have a dev box on my mac	22:27
@khenn	but that's a different story	22:27
@khenn	perlmonkey2: you need to set up a rewrite rule in apache	22:28
perlmonkey2	khenn: okay, thanks :)	22:28
Samus_Aran	khenn: how much RAM do your Apache threads use each ? mine are 60 to 70MiB each as soon as WebGUI is enabled	22:28
@khenn	on my P3, I get up to 380 megs used at times	22:29
Samus_Aran	(with a manual install)	22:29
@khenn	I've never had the box crash	22:29
@khenn	and I've never had it run ultra slow	22:29
@khenn	but again, I'm not using a manual install	22:29
@khenn	so I'm guessing it's a config / fine tuning issue	22:29
Samus_Aran	but how much do individual threads of Apache use ? I want to know if my manual install is completely borked, or if it's normal to use that much	22:30
@khenn	I don't know how much each individual thread of Apache uses	22:30
@khenn	I'm not even sure how I would find that out.	22:30
@khenn	all I can see is how much total ram is being used by Apache	22:31
@khenn	all I know how to see anyway	22:31
@khenn	unfortunately we are pretty much at the limit of what I know how to troubleshoot	22:32
Samus_Aran	if you wanted to see RAM used, this command will do it: \ps ww -e -o rss,args \| grep httpd \| grep -v grep	22:34
Samus_Aran	it will display kilobytes of RAM for each Apache thread	22:34
Samus_Aran	for some unknown reason, when I started up the WebGUI running from the manual install, it is fast	22:34
Samus_Aran	there is now the /WRE in /data. perhaps it is using something from in there, even though it shouldn't. I'm not sure	22:35
@khenn	i'll check my dev box	22:35
Samus_Aran	the WRE isn't being used currently	22:35
Samus_Aran	but pages are loading <1 second	22:35
Samus_Aran	weird	22:35
@khenn	hmm	22:35
@khenn	yeah I'm not sure	22:36
Samus_Aran	it was a minimum of 5-8 seconds when I was working on it Thursday	22:36
Samus_Aran	and often 30	22:36
@khenn	sounds like something you did along the way fixed the problem	22:36
Samus_Aran	and since then I have not touched my manual install, I just moved it and put it back today	22:36
Samus_Aran	oh well. if it's working, it's working	22:36
Samus_Aran	[until it decides to stop working again, hehe]	22:36
Samus_Aran	it is perfectly fine now, nice and fast	22:38
@khenn	I ran that command	22:38
@khenn	each apache thread is using < 75k	22:39
@khenn	er < 65k	22:39
@khenn	er > 65k	22:39
@khenn	heh	22:39
@khenn	less than	22:39
Samus_Aran	I think I will test if it is using some component of the WRE I installed in /data. I will stop apache, rename /data and then try again	22:39
@khenn	I take it you have WebGUI installed somewhere besides /data	22:39
@khenn	ie: /data/WebGUI/lib	22:40
@khenn	otherwise you might just want to rename /data/wre	22:40
Samus_Aran	I have my manual install in /var/www/WebGUI and my domain at /var/www/foo.com	22:42
Samus_Aran	okay, renamed the old /data and restarted ... lemme see if it is slow now	22:42
Samus_Aran	made no difference. still nice and fast	22:42
Samus_Aran	I guess I can remove the WRE now and get on with developing the web site	22:43
@khenn	well, it's a mystery but it's solved	22:43
Samus_Aran	phew !	22:43
Samus_Aran	thanks for your help, khenn and preaction and Radix_	22:43
@khenn	sure thing	22:43
Samus_Aran	I haven't used WebGUI since v4.x, it has changed a lot. I find it more confusing now	22:43
Samus_Aran	but I will try to figure it out	22:44
@khenn	it's 1000 times the size	22:44
@khenn	wow WebGUI 4 eh?	22:44
@khenn	that's a long time ago	22:44
@khenn	Having used both versions, I can honestly say version 7 is much better	22:45
@khenn	especially from a developers standpoint	22:45
@khenn	it's a lot more customizeable	22:45
Samus_Aran	I find the UI more confusing, however I see a huge number of new features	22:45
Samus_Aran	and I like features =)	22:45
@khenn	you think the UI is more confusing?	22:46
wgGuest24	i have webgui 7.4.18 and don't see my page	22:46
@khenn	I thought it was much worse when all of the admin stuff was right in the middle of your page	22:46
@khenn	what do you mean you don't see your page?	22:46
Samus_Aran	khenn: for example adding a section to a page. it used to be intuitive, now I'm not even sure how to do it	22:46
wgGuest24	and in the webgui.log i found this error: ERROR - spectre.conf - POE::Kernel::_dispatch_event[1012] - ADMIN: Couldn't connect to WebGUI site	22:46
wgGuest24	what i must do?	22:47
@khenn	sounds like a configuration problem	22:47
@khenn	my guess is you have the IP address or port misconfigured	22:47
@khenn	for spectre	22:47
Samus_Aran	khenn: e.g. a new column or a paragraph of text. in 4.x it was very clear what to do, now all I see is "pages". preaction said that all the sections are pages now, which seems kind of strange	22:47
wgGuest24	i do a copy of spectre.conf.original	22:48
wgGuest24	and don't modified	22:48
@khenn	the problem is likely in your webgui config file	22:48
@khenn	do a search for spectre in there	22:48
@khenn	Samus: anything in WebGUI can be a page these days	22:49
@khenn	for instance	22:49
@khenn	if you wanted to create a page that only had one article on it	22:49
@khenn	you could simply add the article as a child of home or something else	22:49
@khenn	expose it to the navigation	22:49
@khenn	and presto, it's a page	22:50
@khenn	the only time you really need to use "Pages" per say, is when you want to display more than one "thing" on a "page"	22:50
@khenn	I guess that can be a bit confusing	22:50
Samus_Aran	in WebGUI 4.x, there would often be dozens of items on the page	22:51
Samus_Aran	each section was self-contained, so you could cut/paste it somewhere else, or move it to a new column, etc.	22:52
Samus_Aran	I'm not sure how to do that type of management in 7.x	22:52
@khenn	it's drag and drop now	22:53
@khenn	add a page layout	22:53
@khenn	then you can start adding things to that page layout	22:53
@khenn	those things become children of the page layout	22:53
@khenn	and you can drag and drop them or move them about via the asset manager	22:53
@khenn	actually, we have published an entire book on managing content in WebGUI	22:54
@khenn	https://www.plainblack.com/store/services/books2/webgui-content-managers-guide	22:54
@khenn	there is a great deal of content in there	22:55
@khenn	about using pretty much everything in WebGUI	22:55
@khenn	(in terms of content)	22:55
@khenn	I gotta run. BBL	22:55
-!- khenn is now known as khenn_afk		22:55
wgGuest24	my spectre.conf looks good	22:55
wgGuest24	i don't know that do?	22:56
perlmonkey2	With the $15/month PB hoster, there is no way to run custom macros?	23:04
wgGuest24	que debo hacer??	23:06
nuba	pregunta y espera	23:09
nuba	en el entremedio, puedes leer al wiki o a los foruns	23:10
nuba	lo mejor es que pregunte en ingl�s	23:10
nuba	your questions will reach more people this way	23:11
BartJol	well the session logging seems to work reasonly	23:13
BartJol	and the owner does not get karma anymore	23:13
BartJol	but the session logging does not always work great	23:14
wgGuest24	ya pregunte en ingles y nada	23:14
wgGuest24	they tell me that my spectre.conf is wrong, but this it's good	23:14
nuba	wgGuest24: can you handle yourself with a shell?	23:16
BartJol	but maybe it is just caching	23:16
nuba	wgGuest24: fire a shell, go to /data/wre/sbin, type '. ./setenvironment' without the quotes	23:16
nuba	that will set your environment properly	23:17
nuba	then go to /data/WebGUI/sbin and run 'perl spectre.pl --test'	23:17
nuba	if you see 'Tests completed.' and no error, your spectre is ok	23:18
nuba	otherwise it'll spit some error for you	23:18
wgGuest24	i dn't have wre i have the source	23:18
nuba	which you should use as your starting point	23:18
nuba	whoops	23:18
nuba	its been a while since I used to run webgui without the WRE, not sure I can help you then	23:19
nuba	anyway, try 'perl spectre.pl --test from wherever it is your WebGUI/sbin is located now	23:20
wgGuest24	ok	23:20
wgGuest24	'jsonToObj' will be obsoleted. Please use 'from_json' instead. at /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8/Config/JSON.pm line 134	23:20
nuba	perlbot: life with cpan	23:21
perlbot	Information pertaining to the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN) can be found at http://sial.org/howto/perl/life-with-cpan/	23:21
wgGuest24	couldn't connect www.ejemplo.com	23:21
nuba	did you add the proper DNS entries for your www.ejemplo.com site?	23:23
nuba	or added it to /etc/hosts	23:23
nuba	?	23:23
wgGuest24	yes	23:23
wgGuest24	and restart apache2	23:23
nuba	if you type 'host www.ejemplo.com', is it pointing to your machine's IP or some IP apache would be listening at?	23:23
wgGuest24	yes, my ip, because it's local	23:24
nuba	what is your webgui release again?	23:24
wgGuest24	7.4.18	23:24
nuba	is this a fresh install ? any reason for not using the latest stable?	23:25
nuba	actually, any reason for not using the wre?	23:25
wgGuest24	i have this before, and reinstall my ubuntu and now is install webgui	23:26
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2: you can't run any custom perl code on PB's hosting, unless you get your own server.	23:27
Samus_Aran	wgGuest24: if it is local, do you have a DNS server or is it in your hosts file ?	23:27
nuba	you know you could use the wre, install webgui 7.4.18 on it, add a site with the same name of what you had before, then replace the database for the one you had, and place the uploads under /data/domains/www.ejemplo.com/public, and live happly ever after, dont you?	23:28
nuba	by using the WRE it will be easier for you to get help from the community	23:29
nuba	ie. in my case I dont really remember a lot of configuring/troubleshooting a lone webgui install, no WRE	23:30
BartJol	perlDreamer, you mentioned a time ago something about wrting tests	23:31
+perlDreamer	yeah man	23:31
+perlDreamer	ready to learn?	23:31
BartJol	I feel I get in the stage that that might get usefull	23:31
+perlDreamer	okay, let me throw some resources your way	23:31
BartJol	ah, that would be nice	23:31
BartJol	need my mail?	23:32
+perlDreamer	1) Get a copy of my Testing Tutorial from WUC 2006. Koen, Joeri, Martin should all have copies	23:32
+perlDreamer	2) perldoc Test::Tutorial	23:32
+perlDreamer	3) perldoc Test::More	23:32
+perlDreamer	if you can't get a copy of my WUC talk, let me know and I'll email you one	23:32
BartJol	ok, Ill check that tomorrow	23:33
perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: that's what I remembered, but I wanted to make sure. Thanks	23:33
+perlDreamer	and from what I see on their site, $15 hosting is now $20 hosting	23:34
+perlDreamer	So good job for purchasing early :)	23:34
+perlDreamer	BartJol: In the meantime, have a look at the tests in /data/WebGUI/t/Macro for ideas and stuff to borrow.	23:35
BartJol	but it seems to run quite ok right now, but it really needs testing	23:35
+perlDreamer	with automated tests, no more loading, and reloading, and so on.	23:36
+perlDreamer	You set it up once, and keep using it.	23:36
BartJol	but you can do tests what happens on a reload?	23:37
+perlDreamer	Sure. Reload is the second time the user accesses the macro.	23:37
BartJol	check	23:37
BartJol	right now I already feel a bit proud that I came this far	23:38
perlmonkey2	what ever happened to crythias?	23:38
+perlDreamer	You should, man! You've worked hard and done well.	23:38
BartJol	it takes some initialisation time, but after that it goes quite ok	23:39
BartJol	easier to fix mistakes and stuff	23:39
Samus_Aran	does anyone have any idea why the site search might not work ?	23:42
wgGuest24	yes i have /data/domain/ejemplo.com/www/public	23:42
Samus_Aran	I don't get any errors, just no results. it puts me on the search page again	23:42
Samus_Aran	hm. apparently if you use ^c; for the company name, it won't find it when you type part of the name	23:43
Samus_Aran	I tried some other words and they were found	23:43
BartJol	ah, yes I heard that it is a bit sensitive sometimes	23:43
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: I _think_ you have to run the site indexer manually when you start the site.	23:43
Samus_Aran	actually, that isn't the issue. hm	23:43
Samus_Aran	it seems to be ignoring my Contact form text	23:44
Samus_Aran	perlDreamer: I will look into that	23:44
Samus_Aran	it finds the page names, but not text on the page	23:44
BartJol	but I'm gonna relax now and test later	23:48
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+perlDreamer	I think the SpectreCheck macro needs to use the most maligned HTML tag of all time.	23:57
Samus_Aran	Does anyone know how I can make the news post immediately ? it is set to "Commit without approval"	23:57
Samus_Aran	I thought <blink> was the most maligned	23:57
+perlDreamer	Yup. If spectre is broken, then I want it to be very visible.	23:58
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: This is a guess, but try the sitewide settings for autocommit and autoapprove. They should make that intermediate page go away.	23:58
+perlDreamer	But they will apply to ALL asset commits, not just the News	23:59
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BartJol	can't you call the macro with tehe rolling eyes of jt?	23:59
BartJol	xeyes evaluated	23:59
--- Day changed Tue Feb 12 2008
cap10morgan	What are common causes of this error when trying to exec a workflow instance: "Couldn't execute operation ... Root cause: can't build entity: no body, and not multipart"?	00:00
BartJol	oh, sorry, it was an acme, and then it would be usefull	00:00
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Samus_Aran	perlDreamer: it is a small site, I don't think we will need much of a workflow. realtime is alright	00:00
+perlDreamer	cap10morgan: That's a new one on us.	00:00
cap10morgan	perlDreamer: great! :)	00:01
+perlDreamer	wanna nopaste some log file output?	00:01
cap10morgan	that's all of it	00:01
cap10morgan	w/o turning up the logging level	00:01
+perlDreamer	webgui.log or error.log?	00:01
cap10morgan	which i may have to do here shortly...	00:01
cap10morgan	webgui.log	00:02
+perlDreamer	check the error.log	00:02
+perlDreamer	that's not a WebGUI error	00:02
cap10morgan	hmm, the error.log says nothing when i generate that error	00:03
cap10morgan	but it does have tons of Apache2::SizeLimit messages	00:03
cap10morgan	over and over	00:03
cap10morgan	it's killing processes left and right	00:03
cap10morgan	hmm...	00:03
CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5414 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Macro/_macro.skeleton: added POD to the macro skeleton	00:03
Samus_Aran	perlDreamer: I really do not understand the versioning used in 7.x	00:04
Samus_Aran	perlDreamer: I went and clicked on "commit my changes" and it reverted all the work I did	00:04
+perlDreamer	is Spectre running and configured properly?	00:05
Samus_Aran	perlDreamer: at this point I am unsure what is going on =/	00:05
Samus_Aran	running, yes. configured properly, I don't know	00:05
Samus_Aran	I did a manual install via the instructions on the web site	00:05
+perlDreamer	head over to the WebGUI sbin directory and do a perl spectre.pl --test	00:06
Samus_Aran	ERROR: Spectre cannot communicate with WebGUI. Perhaps you need to adjust the spectreSubnets setting in this config file: <domain>.conf	00:07
+perlDreamer	well, there you go	00:07
+perlDreamer	WebGUI can't talk to spectre to commit your assets, so they're locked	00:07
+perlDreamer	while they're locked, the site doesn't display them	00:08
Samus_Aran	when I clicked commit, it lcoked them	00:08
Samus_Aran	*locked	00:08
+perlDreamer	yup	00:08
Samus_Aran	okay, going to look	00:08
Samus_Aran	oh I know what's going on	00:08
Samus_Aran	or not.	00:09
Samus_Aran	(I thought it was an incorrect password)	00:09
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: If you've found any of our help useful today, you can help us by making a wiki page with what you've learned today.	00:09
-!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has quit ["Windows doesn't have users, it has hostages."]		00:11
Samus_Aran	"spectreSubnets" : [ "127.0.0.1/32" ], "spectreIp" : "127.0.0.1", "spectrePort" : 32323,	00:12
Samus_Aran	that is normal, is it not ?	00:12
+perlDreamer	looks okay, but then again, I'm not all that familiar with Spectre.	00:13
+perlDreamer	what's in spectre.conf?	00:13
BartJol	what happens when you change the ip to the real ip?	00:14
Samus_Aran	"ip" : "127.0.0.1", "port" : 32323, "maxWorkers" : 3, "webguiPort" : 80,	00:14
BartJol	and I've seen other subnets than 32	00:14
BartJol	I got it working once by changing it to 16 or 24 I believe	00:15
Samus_Aran	oh my gosh:	00:16
Samus_Aran	-rw-r--r-- 1 www-data root 246M 2008-02-11 14:15 /var/log/webgui.log	00:16
Samus_Aran	that is a large log file, considering I have done almost nothing on WebGUI so far	00:16
Samus_Aran	heh	00:16
Samus_Aran	hm	00:18
Samus_Aran	I see this in the log file:	00:18
CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5414 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Macro/_macro.skeleton: added POD to the macro skeleton	00:18
Samus_Aran	main::[[undef]] - Visitor (1) connecting from <external_ip> attempted to make a Spectre workflow runner request, but we're on ly allowed to accept requests from 127.0.0.1/32.	00:18
Samus_Aran	that appears a lot	00:18
Samus_Aran	so presumably the router is giving my connection the external IP	00:19
Samus_Aran	even though both this computer and the server are on the same LAN	00:19
Samus_Aran	though I thought it was just the webgui process that would connect to it, in which case the IP shouldn't matter	00:19
Samus_Aran	as it never leaves localhost	00:20
Samus_Aran	I'm not entirely clear on this whole webgui/spectre communication thing	00:20
Samus_Aran	this error appears a lot: "Couldn't get UI level of WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WeatherData. Root cause: Can't locate object method "getUiLevel""	00:22
Samus_Aran	via package "WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WeatherData" at /var/www/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm line 696.	00:22
BartJol	Samus_Aran, the subnet was changed to 16	00:24
-!- wgGuest81 [n=wgGuest8@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has quit []		00:24
metanil	Can i have "File submitted by", "File submitted at (time)", "File last accessed by" beside "description" and "last updated" field in the File asset.??	00:30
BartJol	well you can, if the template variables exist	00:31
@preaction	not last accessed (unless that means last changed). submitted by is probably easy (<tmpl_var ownerUserId>)	00:31
@preaction	but you'll need to get the username out of that. probably with a macro. dunno if any macros built-in will do it	00:32
Samus_Aran	preaction: could you help me figure out why spectre can't communicate with my manually installed webgui ? it is running very fast now, by the way	00:34
Samus_Aran	not sure why, but I'm not complaining	00:34
@preaction	i would bet that spectre is for some reason binding on the external IP. or if your /etc/hosts has yourdomain.com pointing to that external IP, it might show up like that. your best bet would be to do what the error message from spectre.pl --test said, and put your external IP in spectreSubnets	00:35
Samus_Aran	I just got a new error, when restarting apache and spectre	00:37
Samus_Aran	actually that error seems to only be because I had stopped apache and then loaded spectre first	00:39
Samus_Aran	afk brb	00:39
-!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has joined #webgui		00:43
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Samus_Aran	everything seems to be working now. added the external IP as a subnet to Spectre	00:58
Samus_Aran	not sure why Spectre is even looking at the external IP when it's on the same computer as WebGUI	00:59
Samus_Aran	all my changes reappeared	00:59
+perlDreamer	Spectre processed the version workflow	00:59
nuba	i think it would be good if every wiki update would appear here with the wikipage title, and the webgui.org nickname of the person who did the change	01:00
+perlDreamer	nuba: PB's contract with their provider says "NO IRC"	01:00
+perlDreamer	You'd have to screen scrape it.	01:00
nuba	like "Wiki: WebGUI Search System edited by knowmad"	01:01
nuba	"Wiki: Subscriptions, Manage added by knowmad"	01:01
Samus_Aran	can the wiki provide a dump of the most recent 50 posts, in xml or csv ? that would be simple enough to check once per 5 minutes or similar	01:02
nuba	theres http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki?func=recentChanges	01:02
nuba	i can whip that up with irssi	01:02
nuba	perlDreamer: if they can run a irc client from their servers, they can have a irc bot	01:03
nuba	but maybe even that they cannot do	01:03
+perlDreamer	it isn't on their servers, it runs locally on the web client in Java	01:03
+perlDreamer	I've been hounding JT about this for two years.	01:04
+perlDreamer	He's very adamant about the contract.	01:04
nuba	it happens that irc client, some bots, and a private ircd (for work), well, thats exactly what I do from my dedacated server :)	01:04
Samus_Aran	you could also set up an SSH tunnel from the server	01:05
nuba	never had any issue with the providers. but then my ircd is wrapped with SSL, with a password to connect to the ircd too	01:05
nuba	and this is a very very low traffic machine	01:06
@preaction	nuba, if you're willing, JT has said he will accept me building an interface (a la JSON or XML or somesuch) to the data that your bot could use	01:09
@preaction	of course, one of the features i want to see in the wiki is the ability to subscribe to a wikipage	01:10
@preaction	which would fulfill the same purpose really	01:11
nuba	the wiki having a RSS feed would be good enough	01:11
nuba	does it?	01:11
nuba	otherwise im scraping it	01:11
nuba	it would make a lot of sense for me this of people subscribing to a RSS feed of recent changes in a wiki	01:12
Samus_Aran	nuba: if they can modify the wiki to dump in csv or xml, it will save the server from sending more data than it needs (a whole HTML page)	01:12
cap10morgan	hmm, a bunch of my modperl instances are segfaulting	01:13
cap10morgan	any clever tricks to debug why that's happening?	01:13
cap10morgan	i should say, modperl processes	01:13
nuba	ktrace?	01:13
nuba	and kdump?	01:13
nuba	you can have hours of fun with that	01:13
+perlDreamer	PB people: When is the rizenator back?	01:14
nuba	for some offbeat definition of fun, of course	01:14
@preaction	nuba, i can build a shortcut to the wiki that will give you whatever you want in whatever serialization you want, JSON, XML, or otherwise. (i'd prefer JSON, more possibilities)	01:14
cap10morgan	nuba: hmm, googling, thanks for the suggestion	01:14
cap10morgan	nuba: does ktrace work on linux?	01:15
+perlDreamer	http://www.presicient.com/langjobs/usajobs.html	01:15
cap10morgan	looks like a bsd thing	01:15
nuba	cap10morgan: if you launch a single instance of apache, enable ktrace, and reproduce the error, skip to about the end of your dump and its probably around there	01:15
nuba	thats what I sometimes do on freebsd, dunno what you'd use in linux	01:16
cap10morgan	ah, ok	01:16
cap10morgan	i guess that would be strace	01:16
@preaction	Debugging and profiling mod_perl applications: http://www.perl.com/lpt/a/974	01:17
nuba	Samus_Aran: for a 18566 bytes html, its ~66MB/day plus some little overhead to retrieve /community-wiki?func=recentChanges every minute and scrap it	01:20
nuba	preaction: if I can ask, I'd first ask that the wiki outputs RSS so that besides scrapping I can subscribe to it	01:21
+perlDreamer	yeah!	01:21
+perlDreamer	RSS	01:21
nuba	or any webgui wiki	01:21
@preaction	i could write something to do that, yes	01:21
@preaction	give me until tomorrow	01:22
nuba	afterwards looking for other formats like JSON would be ok, but the RSS is the thing I think most people wouldbenefit from	01:22
nuba	preaction: can plainblack live with 66Mb/day for a few days?	01:22
@preaction	what do you mean?	01:22
nuba	if yes im getting this bot to scrap the page and post new updates here today	01:23
+perlDreamer	one WebGUI download / day from PB is bigger than that, nuba	01:23
@preaction	yes, but the download doesn't go through webgui	01:23
nuba	i knkow, but since Samus_Aran brought the worry about MB/day up..	01:23
metanil	is there any method available in webgui core that will return username from userid (as parameter)???	01:23
+perlDreamer	metanil: not yet :)	01:24
@preaction	metanil, print WebGUI::User->new( $session, $userId )->username;	01:24
+perlDreamer	Sounds like a good RFE	01:24
metanil	hmm..	01:25
metanil	ok i'll write my own.	01:25
+perlDreamer	preaction: How about some golfing :)	01:29
+perlDreamer	WebGUI::User->new(@_)->username;	01:30
@preaction	touche	01:30
+perlDreamer	but it leaves you open to user creation attacks	01:30
CIA-21	WebGUI: colin * r5415 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (i18n/English/Macro_SpectreCheck.pm Macro/SpectreCheck.pm): adding the SpectreCheck Macro, per the RFE	01:33
@preaction	what does the SpectreCheck macro do?	01:34
+perlDreamer	It says whether or not a connection could be made to Spectre	01:34
@preaction	i suppose that could be useful	01:35
+perlDreamer	I think it would be more useful displayed in the AdminBar.	01:36
+perlDreamer	What do you think?	01:36
@preaction	didn't that RFE say something about displaying it during a commit?	01:36
+perlDreamer	it's 3-fold	01:36
+perlDreamer	1) When committing	01:36
+perlDreamer	2) When auto-committing (which is TBD)	01:37
+perlDreamer	3) Macro for displaying status	01:37
cap10morgan	hmm, yeah, strace indicates that i'm sometimes getting segfaults something is retrieved from the db cache	01:42
cap10morgan	clearing the cache and restarting doesn't help	01:42
cap10morgan	but switching to file cache does	01:42
nuba	nice	01:43
cap10morgan	yep, "select content from cache..." precedes the segfault every time	01:43
@preaction	weirdness	01:44
cap10morgan	that seems bad overall	01:44
@preaction	what does myisamchk say about the cache table?	01:44
cap10morgan	it's in a bunch of different sites' databases	01:44
cap10morgan	i mean, i could check anyway, but seems unlikely they're all affected	01:45
cap10morgan	says 1 client is using or hasn't closed properly	01:47
cap10morgan	and usable but should be fixed	01:47
cap10morgan	on 2 sites that exhibit the problem	01:47
Samus_Aran	How can I check why my contact form is not sending an e-mail to the To and Cc addresses ?	01:48
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: Either a mail server or a spectre problem	01:49
Samus_Aran	it only saves the data on the page	01:49
Samus_Aran	perlDreamer: does it use sendmail to send it, or Perl directly, or what ?	01:49
+perlDreamer	It uses what you told it to in the site Settings	01:49
Samus_Aran	is there a log file that would show an error ?	01:49
+perlDreamer	yes	01:49
+perlDreamer	webgui.log	01:49
Samus_Aran	okay, will look for site settings	01:49
+perlDreamer	although, if spectre isn't running, then the workflow to send the emails won't run either	01:50
Samus_Aran	Spectre is fine now	01:52
Samus_Aran	after adding the external IP	01:52
Samus_Aran	I see in Settings under the Messaging tab "SMTP Server" set to "localhost". it doesn't have options for port numbers or authentication	01:53
Samus_Aran	I guess I will have to set up a localhost mail server to relay	01:53
Samus_Aran	I don't think the server has one currently	01:54
+perlDreamer	i'd bet you can type anything you want in there	01:54
* cap10morgan is disabling Database cache on all his sites		01:54
Samus_Aran	the mail server we use here requires user/pass authentication and a non-standard port	01:54
* nuba sent a mail asking for the admin of http://chl.be/mascots/ to add gooey there		01:54
nuba	and now meet ..	01:55
-!- GoeyOfSteel [n=puppetma@hq.imaterial.org] has joined #webgui		01:55
Samus_Aran	gooey meat.	01:55
nuba	this is another irssi in my box, which will be my bot	01:55
-!- GoeyOfSteel is now known as GooeyOfSteel		01:55
nuba	better now	01:55
nuba	instead of the defunct project2501, which somehow wasnt very popular here	01:56
nuba	GooeyOfSteel: hello	01:57
@apeiron	Your puppet master seems the taciturn sort.	01:57
nuba	i added eliza to it once, let me check..	01:58
nuba	he was very talkative by then...	01:58
@apeiron	Or she. :o	01:58
nuba	the idea was to somehow extract more info from people coming here asking for help	01:58
nuba	to make troubleshooting easier, after the people had already been milked out of information about their issues :)	01:59
nuba	it didnt worked as I thought it could, it was a good idea for a startup, unfortunately i forgot to add buzzwords like web2.0 and AJAX to help sell the idea, you know?..	02:00
@apeiron	nuba, Depending upon the strategy you want to take with it (active vs passive seeding), you may want to take a look at the infobot code.	02:01
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: I'm guessing all that can be specified, but I have no idea how to do it.	02:02
@preaction	perlDreamer, Samus_Aran: no. it's not. it would be a relatively painless RFE though	02:04
Samus_Aran	okay	02:05
Samus_Aran	thank you both	02:05
Samus_Aran	infobot is nice	02:05
Samus_Aran	once it gets a large database, that is	02:05
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: submit the RFE, wait for it to be approved, then dump a little karma into it	02:05
Samus_Aran	is there some way to sort the menu items (flexmenu) ?	02:06
Samus_Aran	also, where are the descriptions used, when you create a page ?	02:06
Samus_Aran	in the sitemap, or search or what ?	02:07
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@preaction	it's available to the template, so most anywhere. it's indexed too, so search yes	02:09
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GooeyOfSteel	GooeyOfSteel: breathe!	02:12
nuba	oops	02:12
nuba	GooeyOfSteel: breathe!	02:12
GooeyOfSteel	nuba: Please go on.	02:13
nuba	there is eliza again.. now onto the wiki update things...	02:13
* apeiron hands nuba the +5 mace of recalcitrant bot subdoing.		02:13
@apeiron	er, subduing	02:13
+perlDreamer	oh no, I think subdoing is much more appropriate for a bot	02:14
GooeyOfSteel	perlDreamer: Why?	02:15
metanil	to make a new template variable available in the template, where should i add it? like $var{newtemplatevar} = "val"; .. where should i do this?	02:15
+perlDreamer	bots are subs doing stuff	02:15
nuba	perlDreamer: you must prefix your phrases with 'GooeyOfSteel: '	02:16
@apeiron	nuba, I have an RFE for your bot!	02:16
nuba	in case you want to talk with GooeyOfSteel...	02:16
+perlDreamer	GooeyOfSteel: bots are subs doing stuff	02:16
GooeyOfSteel	perlDreamer: Did you think they might not be subs doing stuff?	02:16
+perlDreamer	GooeyOfSteel: That is the core concern of any programmer, but you already knew that	02:16
GooeyOfSteel	perlDreamer: Oh, I already knew that?	02:17
+perlDreamer	GooeyOfSteel: Of course. Aren't you self-aware?	02:17
GooeyOfSteel	perlDreamer: Oh, I self-aware?	02:17
@apeiron	s/GooeyOfSteel/GumbyBRAIN/g	02:18
+perlDreamer	indeed	02:20
@apeiron	perlDreamer, You've met Gumby?	02:20
+perlDreamer	Like the bendy green guy?	02:21
@apeiron	Not quite.	02:21
Samus_Aran	what was Gumby's horse's name ?	02:21
+perlDreamer	Pokie?	02:22
Samus_Aran	yes.	02:22
Samus_Aran	can someone remind me what the item is called that is used for News ? I accidentally got it removed (I cut it to paste somewhere else, then restarted WebGUI and it went poof)	02:23
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Samus_Aran	I just realised that I only want one set of data, for both the events calendar and the news items, as there is overlap	02:27
Samus_Aran	not sure how I could do that, though	02:27
+perlDreamer	pull RSS/Ical from the Events Calendar as you news feed?	02:28
Samus_Aran	basically one view of the data in month view, and another view of the data in most recent	02:28
Samus_Aran	I mean, a plain list	02:29
+perlDreamer	The calendar doesn't do a list view yet.	02:29
Samus_Aran	if I tell it to export an RSS, can I get a item-by-item listing from that using another plugin ?	02:30
* perlDreamer decides to double check whether the calendar supports RSS before answering		02:31
@preaction	no	02:31
@preaction	just iCal	02:31
@preaction	but you can make RSS out of any asset using shortcuts and template overrides	02:31
+perlDreamer	are we still planning a general RSS solution for Assets?	02:32
Samus_Aran	it seems that news and events would go together for many people	02:32
+perlDreamer	to replace RSSCapable and RSSFromParent?	02:32
Samus_Aran	I mean, any upcoming event is a newsworthy item	02:32
+Radix-wrk	the collaboration system has an rss mode doesn't it?	02:34
@preaction	Samus_Aran, please. if you have RFEs, post them to the RFE list. complaining about WebGUI's shortcomings here is counter-productive. patches are welcome.	02:34
@preaction	Radix-wrk, yes. same with Syndicated Content assets	02:34
Samus_Aran	any idea why the heading used for News is more prominent than that used by Calendar ?	02:34
+Radix-wrk	prolly just different css used in each	02:35
+Radix-wrk	you can change that through the template easily enough	02:35
+Radix-wrk	Is the Thingy in 7.5.x yet?	02:35
Samus_Aran	News uses <h2> and Calendar uses <h1>	02:35
+perlDreamer	It's just the default template	02:36
Samus_Aran	they should both be of the same importance	02:36
+Radix-wrk	file it as a bug then	02:36
@preaction	or edit the template and attach a package to the bug	02:39
Samus_Aran	I just checked, and all other objects in my site are using <h2>, so it is the calendar that is doing it wrong	02:39
Samus_Aran	where is the template ?	02:39
+Radix-wrk	edit calendar, go to display tab and select edit next to the calendar template	02:40
+Radix-wrk	easiest way would be to get rid of the title altogether tho :)	02:41
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+Radix-wrk	looks like you'd need to edit each different view of the calendar otherwise	02:42
Samus_Aran	I updated the 4 views. quite easy, thank you	02:46
@preaction	a note: if you edited the default templates, they can be overwritten by an upgrade. or you could submit the bug report and attach your changed templates	02:47
@preaction	or you could copy the default templates and make changes to your copies	02:47
Samus_Aran	how do I stop an item from taking over the page ? e.g. on my "News & Events" page I have a News section then a Calendar section. if any of the items on the calendar are clicked on, such as changing the view, it leaves the page and never goes back	02:49
Samus_Aran	I don't want an end user seeing any of the sub-pages	02:50
Samus_Aran	I mean, single components	02:50
@preaction	didn't we discuss this last night? I know radix shared your sentiments, but it's not possible to do what you want and still get any functionality	02:53
@preaction	okay, it is possible, but the resulting URLs would be horrendous	02:54
@preaction	i believe i gave examples using the collaboration system	02:54
Samus_Aran	I'm not concerned about the URLs, I am concerned about the end user being yanked out of the page they are in the middle of and being confused about how to get the rest of the content on the page	02:56
Samus_Aran	if someone is scrolling down a page somewhere in the middle, and click a tab on a calendar, the rest of the page shouldn't magically disappear on them	02:56
Samus_Aran	I haven't seen other web sites behave that way	02:57
perlmonkey2	Okay, I need to start joining the survey system into WG. Is the wiki wobject guide + skeleton still the best way to learn how to create wobjects?	02:57
nuba	perlmonkey2: cool!	02:59
@preaction	perlmonkey2, yes, for the most part. i've been told that the Gallery is the pinnacle of WebGUI development (i was told to build it as such), so look there for style and ideas on how to do permissions and such	02:59
perlmonkey2	hah, cool until you realize how complicated WG is	02:59
@preaction	the skeleton is a bit out of date. there are better ways to do some things	03:00
perlmonkey2	preaction: thanks :)	03:00
@preaction	i've been meaning to fix it, but no time (Gallery not done yet)	03:00
perlmonkey2	preaction: that is what I thought. I've looked at code and the skeleton and they don't match up well.	03:00
@preaction	the gallery, galleryalbum and photo assets do things the best way we currently know how	03:01
perlmonkey2	I don't see a Gallery? Only the galleryalbulm and utility?	03:02
perlmonkey2	I don't see a photo either	03:02
perlmonkey2	not in the source tree yet?	03:02
@preaction	they're in there	03:03
@preaction	lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Gallery.pm lib/WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm	03:03
perlmonkey2	preaction: wow.....I just did svn update 1 hour ago and I'm not seeing that....let me re update	03:03
perlmonkey2	okay, found Photo.pm	03:04
Samus_Aran	any idea why, when I have "filter code: nothing" it still doesn't display ^c; as the company name ? this is on a news item displayed as a weblog	03:05
perlmonkey2	but Gallery.pm isn't showing up ofr me	03:05
* perlmonkey2 wonders off to try to fix his subversion checkout		03:05
perlmonkey2	preaction: you just submitted another version, yet I still can't get svn to get that file. I can see it by browsing to the directory. Strange.	03:11
@preaction	weird indeed	03:11
@preaction	maybe try a full checkout in another directory?	03:11
perlmonkey2	hmm, reverted to a previous version then updated, and got it.	03:15
@preaction	weird	03:15
Samus_Aran	more issues with the weblog display for news: it only displays 8 words, instead of a couple paragrahs, before the "more" link	03:16
Samus_Aran	*paragraphs	03:16
Samus_Aran	where would I go to increase this limit ?	03:16
Samus_Aran	I don't see anything in the template	03:17
CIA-21	WebGUI: doug * r5416 /WebGUI/ (7 files in 5 dirs):	03:18
CIA-21	WebGUI: add: i18n for more Gallery templates	03:18
CIA-21	WebGUI: add: International macro now takes sprintf arguments as third and subsequent parameters	03:18
CIA-21	WebGUI: add: Keywords are now processed and given to the photo template, along with a url to search the gallery for the keyword.	03:18
CIA-21	WebGUI: add: Photos now track views	03:18
CIA-21	WebGUI: doug * r5417 /WebGUI/docs/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fix: multiple Gallery template fixes	03:18
perlmonkey2	Samus_Aran: Good question. What's the template name and I'll look at it.	03:19
Samus_Aran	weblog under news	03:19
perlmonkey2	an asset search for weblog brings back one template "weblog". Is that it?	03:20
Samus_Aran	Collaboration System Template: Weblog	03:20
perlmonkey2	k	03:20
Samus_Aran	yes	03:20
perlmonkey2	looks like <tmpl_var synopsis> is being set in the wobject	03:21
+Radix-wrk	tmpl_var synopsis usually picks up everything until the first newline in the text from memory	03:22
@preaction	or up to the ^; marker (i think that's what it is)	03:23
+Radix-wrk	^-; ?	03:23
@preaction	yeah, that	03:23
+Radix-wrk	It's something funny like that	03:23
perlmonkey2	the word synopsis shows up three times in the wobject.....I have no idea what is going on in any three.	03:23
perlmonkey2	only that one is an rss item.	03:23
Samus_Aran	"The ^c; beta web site is now up"\	03:24
Samus_Aran	*all	03:24
Samus_Aran	that is aklk it shows for me	03:24
perlmonkey2	$var->{"synopsis.label"} = $i18n->get("synopsis");	03:24
Samus_Aran	it also doesn't conver the ^c; into a company name, even with filters set to none	03:24
Samus_Aran	*convert	03:24
Samus_Aran	(this laptop keyboard sucks)	03:24
+Radix-wrk	is the c macro listed in your webgui.conf file?	03:25
+Radix-wrk	it might be disabled by default for some wierd reason	03:25
Samus_Aran	I will look	03:25
perlmonkey2	Samus_Aran: Just ot make sure I'm lookin at the right part of the template, the very next thing after the synopsis text, is the weblogReadMore div?	03:25
Samus_Aran	Radix-wrk: where would webgui.conf normally reside ?	03:28
Samus_Aran	I have a $PREFIX/etc/WebGUI.conf.original, but don't see any WebGUI.conf or webgui.conf file. I don't recall instructions telling me to create that one	03:29
Samus_Aran	I created one for my domain and one for spectre and one for logging	03:30
Samus_Aran	perlmonkey2: <tmpl_var synopsis> \n <div class="weblogReadMore">	03:30
Samus_Aran	where would I find the code for: $i18n->get("synopsis"); being called in "lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Collaboration.pm"	03:33
perlmonkey2	That's whI have no idea how the synopsis is created. I created a entry. then changed the text of the entry. The synopsis still shows the original ocntent even after I cleared the cache and forced a reload.	03:34
Samus_Aran	hm	03:35
Samus_Aran	a simpler question: how do I create a page under another ?	03:36
Samus_Aran	I don't get what a Folder is versus a Page Layout	03:36
perlmonkey2	you create page layouts	03:36
perlmonkey2	a page layouts contains assets	03:36
Samus_Aran	is a Page Layout an asset ?	03:36
perlmonkey2	they are what you might consider a "folder"	03:36
perlmonkey2	yes	03:36
perlmonkey2	it will be added to the nav bar and will be a "web page"	03:37
Samus_Aran	and what is the WebGUI Folder ?	03:37
perlmonkey2	that can contain articles, weblogs	03:37
perlmonkey2	whatever	03:37
perlmonkey2	a real file folder	03:37
perlmonkey2	well	03:37
perlmonkey2	a virtual file folder	03:37
Samus_Aran	a real virtual file folder	03:37
Samus_Aran	heh	03:37
perlmonkey2	for assets	03:37
Samus_Aran	so how does it differ from a Page Layout ?	03:37
+Radix-wrk	it's more for displaying lists of things	03:38
+Radix-wrk	like lists of files or the like	03:38
perlmonkey2	where can I find posts to the collab in the database?	03:45
perlmonkey2	This is so weird. I can not make the new submission to the collab system show up in the synopsys.	03:47
perlmonkey2	hmm, I'm guessing clearing the cache doens't effect all wobjects	03:51
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Samus_Aran	is there any way to rearrange the order of pages after they are placed ?	04:14
Samus_Aran	the order in which they appear in the flexmenu	04:14
Samus_Aran	I suppose it's not that hard to cut all the pages, then repaste them in the order I want	04:16
* perlmonkey2 is still trying to figure out the synopsis. I just don't see what is happening in the code.		04:18
perlmonkey2	Samus_Aran: In the asset menu	04:19
perlmonkey2	you can drag and drop them	04:19
perlmonkey2	which effects how the nav asset displays them.	04:19
Samus_Aran	perlmonkey2: I just figured out something about the synopsis	04:24
perlmonkey2	Do tell :)	04:24
Samus_Aran	strangely, when you edit the weblog entry, it only displays a subject and body	04:25
Samus_Aran	but if you go to preview, it then shows a "summary"	04:25
Samus_Aran	which is the synopsis	04:25
Samus_Aran	so it isn't actually cutting it down, it seems	04:25
Samus_Aran	it was a field hidden to me	04:25
* Samus_Aran goes to confirm it is only appearing after a preview		04:25
perlmonkey2	ah	04:26
perlmonkey2	I'm in preview and don't see a "summary".	04:26
Samus_Aran	hm. well it seems to be showing up now, but I know I didn't type in half a sentence before	04:26
Samus_Aran	I'm not really sure what's going on with it	04:26
Samus_Aran	I see it any time I go to edit now	04:27
* perlmonkey2 goes to make sure his gui privleges are maxed		04:28
perlmonkey2	I wonder why I don't see it.	04:28
perlmonkey2	you are using the weblog template?	04:28
perlmonkey2	I only see Subject Message evne if I click preview	04:29
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* perlmonkey2 hates when he accidently logs out		04:31
Samus_Aran	yes, using the weblog template. however, I used another template at the start, and it imported data to the next template	04:32
Samus_Aran	and each time it did that, it seemed to randomly do things to the data	04:32
Samus_Aran	I think that switching through all the templates messed up my article	04:32
perlmonkey2	In the database I can find the synopsis I see in the wobject table, but the complete post I can not find there. I can't find it in any table.	04:32
perlmonkey2	I have no idea which table submissions are stored.	04:33
Samus_Aran	it just suddenly appeared for me when I went to preview	04:33
Samus_Aran	and now everything is fine	04:33
Samus_Aran	try switching to another template such as guestbook, when you already have a submission	04:33
Samus_Aran	or Q/A, etc.	04:33
Samus_Aran	I tried them all before I decided to stick with weblog	04:34
Samus_Aran	and half of them displayed the entry strangely	04:34
Samus_Aran	including inserting a line break in the middle of a sentence, which was not visible in the web form editing the text	04:34
Samus_Aran	e.g. "this is a sentence" in the edit box, and when it was displayed on the list of news items, it showed up as: "this is"	04:35
Samus_Aran	"a sentence"	04:35
Samus_Aran	it seems that the various templates are not using the same exact variables	04:35
perlmonkey2	Hah, I am pretty sure I know where the synopsis is coming from now. PrepareView is a wrapper for the rss call. What you are seing on front is created by the rss feed.	04:35
Samus_Aran	or not using them in the same way	04:35
Samus_Aran	it would be nice if there were a way to change the date of the news items	04:37
Samus_Aran	sometimes you want to post a few hours or days away	04:38
perlmonkey2	I think the Webgui structure is far too complicated to understand without documentation.	04:40
perlmonkey2	Trying to track down how this rss call is working is sending me all over the place	04:40
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perlmonkey2	And still, I can never find where synopsis is set.	04:42
perlmonkey2	this really sucks.	04:42
perlmonkey2	Well I'm not sure it even works as I'm still getting the synopsis from my first post even though I've changed it.	04:46
perlmonkey2	Well this sucks....Plone isn't very useful and I can never get WebGUI to work.	04:47
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perlmonkey2	Yay, found a problem in the webgui.log	04:49
perlmonkey2	looks like a permissions issue in my uploads directory.	04:50
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perlmonkey2	main::[[undef]] - Could not instanciate object using new on WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Collaboration. The result is undefined. at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Instance.pm line 322	04:53
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manishmanish	hi	06:54
+Radix-wrk	hi	07:07
manishmanish	I'm new to webgui	07:08
manishmanish	So, I'm d/ling, instsalling it now	07:08
manishmanish	may have questions, but looks like an amazing promising system	07:08
+Radix-wrk	good luck! :)	07:08
manishmanish	:)	07:08
+Radix-wrk	It's good.. installation can be awkward sometimes.. but it's worth it imho :)	07:09
manishmanish	are there any plugins to allow checking for Domain Names?	07:10
manishmanish	in the cms itself?	07:10
manishmanish	i know, it's a wierd question :>	07:10
+perlDreamer	What do you mean by "checking for Domain Names"?	07:14
manishmanish	as in, within the CMS, i can test if a certain domain name is taken or not	07:15
+perlDreamer	no, that's the job of a domain registrar	07:18
+perlDreamer	we manage content	07:19
manishmanish	'k	07:20
manishmanish	brb	07:23
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manishmanish	back	07:45
manishmanish	:)	07:45
manishmanish	ok the million dollar question	07:47
manishmanish	joomla vs webgui	07:47
manishmanish	<i'm evaluating cms's, and leaning towards web gui>	07:47
manishmanish	but want to make sure right tool, right job	07:47
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@apeiron	manishmanish, As per your question, while I'm not going to offer advice one way or the other, I can offer a site that'll hopefully help you decide: cmsmatrix.org	07:52
manishmanish	ok thanks apeiron	07:52
manishmanish	i appreciate that	07:52
@apeiron	manishmanish, I do have to concede that it is running WebGUI underneath (as you can see by looking at the page source) but there's a lot of info there.	07:53
manishmanish	whoah	07:53
manishmanish	'kay buddy, i'm sold	07:56
manishmanish	webgui it is	07:56
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Samus_Aran	sigh. WebGUI is back to being slow, but more importantly it is locked again	07:57
* Samus_Aran goes to find out what's wrong with Spectre this time		07:57
GooeyOfSteel	manishman: make sure you spend time playing with live demos of both	07:59
Samus_Aran	there doesn't seem to be any spectre errors	07:59
Samus_Aran	yet there are locks on various content	07:59
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Samus_Aran	and nowhere to approve/set that content as active	08:00
Samus_Aran	I already committed all changes	08:00
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, Are there any other users that have open version tags?	08:02
manishman	gooey i will	08:02
manishman	anyone here install this on a mac?	08:02
@apeiron	manishman, WebGUI yes.	08:02
Samus_Aran	apeiron: I am setting it up, there are no other users	08:02
manishman	apeiron cool	08:02
@apeiron	manishman, If by Mac you mean OSX. :)	08:02
manishman	yap	08:02
manishman	os x	08:02
manishman	:>	08:02
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, hmm.	08:03
Samus_Aran	when it was locked before, it was because Spectre was broken. but I have fixed the Spectre issue now, no errors about it in the log file	08:04
Samus_Aran	it was working an hour ago from work	08:04
Samus_Aran	now I am connecting from home (outside the LAN) and it's in slow motion and I can't commit changes properly	08:04
Samus_Aran	Permission denied: This Asset is locked for editing under a version tag different from the one that you are using.	08:06
Samus_Aran	blah.	08:06
Samus_Aran	version tags are all empty, and it says: You are currently working under a tag called: None.	08:06
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, And under the "manage version tags" menu you don't see any tags, right?	08:07
@preaction	Pending Version Tags in the right-hand side under the Version Tags icon of the Admin Console	08:07
@preaction	er.. manage pending version tags i think	08:08
Samus_Aran	there are two autotags there. I opened one of them and clicked deleted, but there are still two	08:08
Samus_Aran	I have now deleted everything inside those two autotags	08:10
Samus_Aran	but they are still there	08:10
@preaction	pending means that it's waiting on spectre. did you restart spectre? did it get its data correctly?	08:10
@preaction	if that worked, those assets shouldn't be locked anymore	08:10
Samus_Aran	under the "Manage pending versions"	08:10
Samus_Aran	how do I remove the two autotags ?	08:10
nuba	Samus_Aran: how's spectre's status, from the prompt?	08:10
@preaction	but the pending tags will still be there until spectre gets a hold of them (no big deal really)	08:11
@preaction	if you want to skip spectre in versioning, go to Settings and under Content > Default Workflow choose "Commit Content Immediately". then spectre won't enter the equation at all	08:11
Samus_Aran	# perl spectre.pl --status	08:11
Samus_Aran	Unable to connect to 127.0.0.1:32323: Connection refused	08:11
Samus_Aran	sigh. Spectre was working fine for hours	08:12
Samus_Aran	I've restarted it a few times now, but it won't work anymore	08:12
-!- cap10morgan [n=cap10mor@206-124-6-111.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has quit []		08:13
@preaction	what does cd /data/WebGUI/sbin; perl spectre.pl --run --debug say?	08:15
nuba	launching GooeyOfSteel's wiki watch feature....	08:15
Samus_Aran	preaction: after launching Apache, you mean ?	08:18
@preaction	of course, apache, mysql. shut down spectre from the wreservice.pl script, and then run it using the command above	08:18
@preaction	it will show you a lot of stuff, but the stuff at the beginning is most important	08:18
@preaction	i suspect if it CAN connect, then something's going wrong with yoursite.com?op=spectreGetSiteData	08:19
@preaction	it should return a string of JSON that spectre will parse. if it's broken, it will show up as your home page	08:19
@preaction	sorry to cut in and run, but i've got a very long day ahead of me and i got no sleep last night. good luck	08:20
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: WebGUI Search System - Edited on 2/6/2008 11:30 pm by knowmad http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/webgui-search-system	08:21
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: WebGUI Statistics - Created on 2/6/2008 10:43 pm by knowmad http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/webgui-statistics	08:21
nuba	from now on every wiki update gets posted here	08:21
@apeiron	That may be a lot of traffic.	08:23
nuba	nope, check http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki?func=recentChanges	08:23
nuba	wiki isnt that lively	08:24
nuba	unfortunately	08:24
Samus_Aran	preaction: "perl spectre.pl --run --debug" didn't fail	08:24
@apeiron	So maybe notthat much.	08:24
Samus_Aran	why did you use --run and not --daemon ?	08:24
nuba	now, when people come here for help, and we them for 'please write what youve learned at the wiki', we'll all know if they did it or not	08:25
nuba	we ask them*	08:25
@apeiron	--run Starts Spectre without forking it as a daemon.	08:25
@apeiron	(which means it won't detach from the terminal so you can see errors it gets)	08:25
Samus_Aran	when I used --daemon it was still printing errors to the console	08:28
@apeiron	Arguably, if spectre is dying for some unknown reason and isn't leaving anything in its wake in the logs, then you'll need to see if it's spitting anything to STDERR before going to the big garbage collector in the sky.	08:28
@apeiron	Possibly before it fully dissociated itself?	08:28
Samus_Aran	several seconds later	08:28
Samus_Aran	lemme try again and see	08:28
Samus_Aran	it is working now, it got rid of those empty version tags	08:29
Samus_Aran	is there a proper way to stop it when it is started with --run ?	08:29
Samus_Aran	just Ctrl+C ?	08:29
nuba	well, kill -9 PID does the job too :)	08:30
@apeiron	I'd personally keep it running that way for a while and see if the issue you're experiencing with it dying intermittently comes up again.	08:30
Samus_Aran	what does this mean:	08:30
Samus_Aran	WORKFLOW: Looks like WBQIpZfKZe1kDQZ5TG_6ZQ at priority 23 would be a good workflow instance to run.	08:30
@apeiron	You don't want to start it normally again and then several hours later have it die and then wish you had it in debug mode still. :)	08:30
Samus_Aran	WORKFLOW: Preparing to run workflow instance WBQIpZfKZe1kDQZ5TG_6ZQ.	08:30
Samus_Aran	that popped up when I wasn't doing anything on the site	08:31
Samus_Aran	okay, sounds fine	08:31
Samus_Aran	it is running in GNU Screen, so I can reconnect to the server later if it messes up	08:31
@apeiron	spectre runs some stuff in the background independent of you doing anything on the site, like daily maintenance.	08:31
Samus_Aran	the screen session will log 3000 lines back, though that won't be that long considering it's spitting out 3 lines every 3 seconds	08:31
@apeiron	You can have screen write a hardcopy log of your session.	08:32
Samus_Aran	but the thing I pasted said "workflow instance"	08:32
@apeiron	Yes.	08:32
Samus_Aran	apeiron: I had forgotten all about that	08:32
* Samus_Aran goes to find the command		08:32
@apeiron	^a :log on	08:32
nuba	screen rocks!	08:33
Samus_Aran	I just did ^a :log	08:33
@apeiron	The bits of work that spectre does in the background -- at least part of it -- are coded in modules. These modules are workflow activities. :)	08:33
Samus_Aran	and it started logging	08:33
Samus_Aran	though it didn't let me choose a filename	08:33
Samus_Aran	hopefully I'll find it	08:33
Samus_Aran	hehe	08:33
Samus_Aran	nuba: screen is one of the greatest inventions of all time =)	08:34
GooeyOfSteel	it'll bein the folder you were when you started screen	08:34
Samus_Aran	nuba: I still kick myself for going years without trying it	08:34
+Radix-wrk	second that.. I'm a big screen fan	08:34
@apeiron	Hm, where you started screen?	08:34
Samus_Aran	and that was years ago	08:34
@apeiron	I thought it just put them in your home directory.	08:34
GooeyOfSteel	apeiron: anywhere	08:34
@apeiron	Although I guess I have a tendency to start screen immediately upon logging in so...	08:34
Samus_Aran	I use screen excessively	08:35
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, I don't have logins on this FreeBSD machine outside of screen.	08:35
Samus_Aran	I have all my screens with full English titles and often run out on Ubuntu (it limits to I think 36 screens)	08:35
@apeiron	36? wowser.	08:35
Samus_Aran	I compiled my own on my last distro, but haven't gotten around to doing so on Ubuntu yet	08:35
GooeyOfSteel	i use screen by subjects - mail + im + irc - dev - sysadmin - remote consoles - etc	08:36
@apeiron	If you're using xterms, you may want to look into screenwm.	08:36
nuba	forgot I was in GooeyOfSteel's irssi, not mine :/	08:36
Samus_Aran	my system is on for an average of 2 months at a time (before the nVIDIA driver leaks RAM and makes me crash or reboot)	08:36
@apeiron	(I make the suggestion of combining the two in xterms because of the high res you can get in xterm)	08:36
nuba	did you guys know scren can talk to a serial console directly?	08:36
Samus_Aran	I use one Gnome-Terminal with transparency	08:36
+Radix-wrk	I've been using screen since about 1993 :)	08:36
Samus_Aran	I didn't know screen existed in 1993	08:37
@apeiron	nuba, Interesting to know, though I've never had the need / hardware for it.	08:37
-!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Connection timed out]		08:37
nuba	its like kermit, only much nicer :)	08:37
+Radix-wrk	screen has been around for AGES	08:37
Samus_Aran	I use ICEWM as my desktop, and I fullscreen all my apps, including the terminal I'm in atm	08:37
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, If you're familiar with vim's split screen modes, you'd find screenwm very comfortable.	08:38
@apeiron	Although it's kinda.. fragile.	08:38
Samus_Aran	desktop 1 for my terminal apps, desktop 2 for Internet apps (web browsers, bittorrent), desktop 4 for word processing, 5 for GIMP	08:38
Samus_Aran	I love ICEWM's keyboard control	08:38
Samus_Aran	better than any other environment I've used	08:39
+Radix-wrk	I used to use screen back when I was mudding at uni - was handy to appear to be working on my C code when instead I was attacking orcs in the mud I played in back then :)	08:39
nuba	heh	08:39
Samus_Aran	I was using DOS in those days	08:39
Samus_Aran	I had Wishbringer, though. fun text adventure	08:39
+Radix-wrk	I got my first unix account in early 1993 - discovered muds shortly afterwards - grades subsequently dropped 20%.. doh	08:40
Samus_Aran	and the original Amulet of Yendor. precursor to Hack and NetHack	08:40
Samus_Aran	Radix-wrk: heh	08:40
+Radix-wrk	friend introduced me to linux around the same time	08:40
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, You mean the original rogue?	08:41
Samus_Aran	I gave up playing NetHack once I found Ancient Domains of Mystery. I still love playing that. I've been playing it off and on for I believe ten years now	08:41
+Radix-wrk	he was running coherent unix around that time	08:41
Samus_Aran	apeiron: I don't know if Amulet of Yendor or Rogue came out first, but the Rogue I played was more sophisticated than AoY	08:42
Samus_Aran	apeiron: Hack came after AoY, and once it became open source and worked on over the net, it turned into NetHack	08:42
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, I fooled around a bit with the original 4.4BSD rogue. Very, very basic. :)	08:42
+Radix-wrk	Sorry.. I seem to have gotten the conversation offtrack with those comments, but it brings back memories :)	08:42
Samus_Aran	apeiron: I think I have that on my Palm Pilot, hehe	08:43
Samus_Aran	apeiron: it is... very bad.	08:43
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, I have everything from the original rogue to recent versions of nethack, slashem, Linley's Dungeon Crawl, and many *bands installed here.	08:43
Samus_Aran	apeiron: have you never tried ADOM, or avoid it because it isn't open source ?	08:43
+Radix-wrk	lol	08:43
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, Tried it. More a fan of the open source games. :)	08:44
+Radix-wrk	telengard ftw	08:44
Samus_Aran	I haven't played NetHack for more than about an hour since I got into ADOM	08:44
Samus_Aran	ADOM has a way better plot, extreme character development and moral development, numerous quests, wilderness maps and way more realism than NetHack	08:45
@apeiron	Roguelike with a plot? No way!	08:45
Samus_Aran	I dislike how NetHack literally had the kitchen sink. all over the place. even has Terminators and Barney	08:45
Samus_Aran	far more realism in ADOM in that regard. monsters all have very nicely written, imaginative descriptions	08:46
Samus_Aran	and if you decide on a career of evil, you will have few friends and the game is way harder	08:47
Samus_Aran	the ending for evil is to become a Chaos God. never come close to that ending, so difficult. but without any spoilers or save-cheating, I beat ADOM as good	08:47
Samus_Aran	took me a few years =p	08:48
Samus_Aran	on a good game of ADOM, my character lasts about a week	08:48
GooeyOfSteel	anyone played a mind forever voyaging?	08:48
Samus_Aran	of playing too much each day	08:48
Samus_Aran	GooeyOfSteel: not I\	08:49
@apeiron	Dammit. There's the inspiration to write my own game again.	08:49
nuba	nowadays, there are good text adventures/interactive fiction for free	08:49
@apeiron	Radix-wrk, See what you started?!	08:49
Samus_Aran	I find that in ADOM, because of the character development and length of gameplay, you get really attached to the character (investing all that time in it), so the fights in ADOM get very epic	08:49
nuba	and there are good apps like Gargoyle now, which makes the experience much better	08:49
Samus_Aran	I was looking at that game engine that encourages people to make their own games. I forget the name, but it may have been "make your own game", heh. some very creative stuff made with it	08:50
Samus_Aran	text adventures and graphical games alike	08:50
+Radix-wrk	lucasarts scumm	08:51
+Radix-wrk	those games rocked :)	08:51
Samus_Aran	lots of scumm players for *nix	08:51
nuba	theres a bunch of languages for writing interactive fiction too	08:51
nuba	for zork and alikes	08:51
+Radix-wrk	yeah, there's a scummvm for almost every platform known to man.. tis great :)	08:51
Samus_Aran	apeiron: ADOM has extreme character development. not just stats (though there are dozens of things to advance), but the moral choices your character makes really expands the game	08:52
@apeiron	Samus_Aran, Huh, interesting.	08:52
Samus_Aran	apeiron: and you get corrupted as time goes by, the closer you get to the source of the chaos that is seeping into the land. corruptions are things like growing hooves, sulphuric acid dripping from your fingers, your brain growing several times larger, etc.	08:53
Samus_Aran	the corruptions are both good and bad, and by the end of the game you are one messed up ugly f---er	08:53
Samus_Aran	you really feel the effect of these corruptions, it makes you want to hurry up and get through the game	08:54
nuba	contemporary interactive fiction, for free http://www.ifwiki.org/index.php/XYZZY_Awards_2006	08:54
Samus_Aran	one of the most annoying is a dark aura. creatures randomly run screaming from you in fear... and shopkeepers come and attack you for chasing away their customers =p	08:54
Samus_Aran	nuba: /me checks it otu	08:54
Samus_Aran	*out	08:54
Samus_Aran	apeiron: the one time I did beat ADOM, my character was such a mess of corruptions that my ending resulted in roughly:	08:57
Samus_Aran	"You make your way home to your village, where you become an outcast. Shunned by your friends and family, you die alone and miserable. But you saved the world."	08:57
@apeiron	heh heh	08:57
@apeiron	And on that note, bedtime for me.	08:57
Samus_Aran	I want to beat it again, with a "happy" ending	08:57
Samus_Aran	there's also an ending for neutral characters, but I have no idea what it even is	08:58
Samus_Aran	apeiron: night	08:58
nuba	GooeyOfSteel: check hq.imaterial.org	09:02
GooeyOfSteel	hq.imaterial.org	09:02
nuba	not working..	09:02
nuba	GooeyOfSteel: check hq.imaterial.org	09:05
GooeyOfSteel	hq.imaterial.org Server: Apache/2.0.59 (Unix) WebGUI/7.5.2 mod_ssl/2.0.59 OpenSSL/0.9.7i mod_apreq2-20051231/2.5.7 mod_perl/2.0.2 Perl/v5.8.8	09:05
nuba	this is from the HTTP headers	09:06
nuba	i remember someone mentioned a while ago about having a bot with that here	09:06
nuba	to help with troubleshooting	09:07
nuba	there it is	09:07
nuba	GooeyOfSteel: check rm -rf /	09:07
GooeyOfSteel	rm-rf /	09:07
Samus_Aran	what exactly is "Manage pending versions." and why does WebGUI no longer just let me commit my changes for the last while all at once ?	09:08
Samus_Aran	there is no commit button on "Manage pending versions", it just shows items	09:08
Samus_Aran	it was automatically adding version tags for me before, now it just has "none" as the version tag	09:09
nuba	GooeyOfSteel: check rm -rf /	09:09
GooeyOfSteel	rm-rf /	09:09
Samus_Aran	GooeyOfSteel: check http://localhost/	09:09
GooeyOfSteel	http//localhost/	09:09
Samus_Aran	GooeyOfSteel: check localhost	09:09
GooeyOfSteel	localhost Server: Apache/2.0.59 (Unix) WebGUI/7.5.2 mod_ssl/2.0.59 OpenSSL/0.9.7i mod_apreq2-20051231/2.5.7 mod_perl/2.0.2 Perl/v5.8.8	09:09
Samus_Aran	GooeyOfSteel: check auk.ca	09:10
GooeyOfSteel	auk.ca Server: Apache/2.2.3 (Ubuntu) PHP/5.2.1 mod_ssl/2.2.3 OpenSSL/0.9.8c	09:10
Samus_Aran	it's nice and fast	09:10
Samus_Aran	my site has gone back to locking everything, and no way to approve it	09:13
Samus_Aran	sigh.	09:13
Samus_Aran	the Spectre is still running fine in debug mode	09:13
GooeyOfSteel	how many workflows you have there?	09:13
GooeyOfSteel	check with perl spectre.pl --status	09:13
Samus_Aran	I don't know what a workflow is	09:13
GooeyOfSteel	well whats the result of "perl spectre.pl --status \| wc -l" ?	09:14
Samus_Aran	Suspended Workflows 1	09:14
Samus_Aran	Waiting Workflows 0	09:14
Samus_Aran	Running Workflows 0	09:14
Samus_Aran	any idea why it would be suspended ?	09:14
Samus_Aran	what are "Manage pending versions" ?	09:15
GooeyOfSteel	i thought you may have been running into branch edits with lots of descendants. that happened with me once, total pain in the ass...	09:15
Samus_Aran	it keeps creating those and locks all my changes with no way to approve them	09:15
GooeyOfSteel	but its not the case	09:15
Samus_Aran	this is a very small site with only me as the user	09:15
Samus_Aran	this is so frustrating. I can't make any changes to the web site	09:16
GooeyOfSteel	i've no idea on what could be it	09:17
+Radix-wrk	GooeyOfSteel: check formsys.com	09:17
GooeyOfSteel	formsys.com Server: Apache/2.0.58 (Unix) WebGUI/7.0.8 mod_ssl/2.0.58 OpenSSL/0.9.7i mod_apreq2-20051231/2.5.7 mod_perl/2.0.2 Perl/v5.8.8	09:17
GooeyOfSteel	maybe a bug, did you consider upgrading to the lates stable?	09:17
+Radix-wrk	GooeyOfSteel: check juga.org	09:17
GooeyOfSteel	juga.org Server: Apache/2.0	09:17
GooeyOfSteel	Radix-wrk: GooeyOfSteel is me when I forget Im in another irssi	09:17
GooeyOfSteel	oops	09:17
nuba	i mean me	09:17
Samus_Aran	I am on the latest stable	09:18
Samus_Aran	it's my first install since 4.x	09:18
+Radix-wrk	GooeyOfSteel: check www.juga.org	09:18
GooeyOfSteel	www.juga.org Server: Apache/2.0	09:18
Samus_Aran	nuba: you should run that irssi as a different user and set a different theme	09:18
nuba	Radix-wrk: oh i thought you asked me to check the site for some interesting content	09:18
nuba	heh	09:18
Samus_Aran	e.g. a red status bar	09:18
+Radix-wrk	I was taking advantage of your check script :)	09:19
nuba	Samus_Aran: its a different screen session, logged as a different user	09:19
+Radix-wrk	interestingly enough - my home setup of webgui doesn't return anything other than apache	09:19
nuba	but yeah a different theme can help	09:19
nuba	Radix-wrk: you on WRE?	09:19
Samus_Aran	GooeyOfSteel: check plainblack.com	09:19
GooeyOfSteel	plainblack.com Server: Apache/2.0	09:19
+Radix-wrk	yeah	09:19
nuba	you can limit the amount of stuff apache spits out at the config	09:20
Samus_Aran	how the hell do I commit "pending versions" ?	09:20
+Radix-wrk	should be using 7.4.20 at home.. compiled wre myself	09:20
nuba	the lesser, the better	09:20
Samus_Aran	there are no commit buttons and they're all locked	09:20
+Radix-wrk	Samus_Aran: it's all done by Spectre	09:20
Samus_Aran	well why isn't spectre in debug mode showing any errors ? =/	09:20
+Radix-wrk	Spectre is the one that processes all commits, workflows, background tasks, etc	09:20
Samus_Aran	it says the workflow is suspended	09:21
+Radix-wrk	nothing in the normal webgui log file?	09:21
* Samus_Aran checks		09:21
Samus_Aran	Asset constructor new() requires an assetId.	09:22
Samus_Aran	Pass in object came back undefined for activity	09:22
Samus_Aran	about ten of those	09:22
+Radix-wrk	Hmm.. what version are you using?	09:22
nuba	'night guys, time to sleep, 5am already	09:23
Samus_Aran	latest stable as of Thursday	09:23
+Radix-wrk	nite nuba	09:23
Samus_Aran	manual install, not the WRE	09:24
Samus_Aran	it works fine for hours, then does odd things	09:24
+Radix-wrk	I used to get some wierd errors back before I started to use the WRE. Ones that noone else could reproduce :( Was one of the main reasons I ended up switching to the WRE.	09:25
+Radix-wrk	Some debian perl module I'd apt-getted had was causing mysterious things to happen that the WRE and other systems weren't getting I suspect.	09:26
Samus_Aran	there are thousands of systems out there running Apache, MySQL, Perl, PHP, etc. ... the WRE seems like such a bad idea	09:26
+Radix-wrk	not at all	09:26
Samus_Aran	effort should be put into a proper installer	09:26
Samus_Aran	not forcing people to give up all their services	09:26
+Radix-wrk	The WRE isn't perfect, but it's not hard to integrate it with other setups	09:27
Samus_Aran	running two copies of all the servers on the system is very inefficient	09:27
+Radix-wrk	And you can literally install a machine from scratch and have the wre up and running in under an hour.	09:27
Samus_Aran	and when the machine already exists, ...	09:28
Samus_Aran	it has a dozen web sites on it already	09:28
Samus_Aran	using the MySQL database	09:28
+Radix-wrk	yeah, well there's no easy way to integrate those setups	09:28
Samus_Aran	and that's my point, it should be easy	09:28
Samus_Aran	there's no reason the script can't just check the versions of the required components and let people know if their versions aren't okay	09:28
Samus_Aran	it already does this, but it is very fragile outside of the WRE	09:29
+Radix-wrk	well I think the main problem is the lack of developers outside plainblack working on webgui	09:29
+Radix-wrk	plainblack is keen to add more power and flexibility in webgui	09:30
Samus_Aran	the silly organisation I work for bought a very expensive rack mount server (which is sitting on a wood shelf). perhaps I should just run WebGUI in a virtual machine	09:30
+Radix-wrk	I do	09:30
+Radix-wrk	well.. not my production system, but I have a couple of virtual machine images I use for testing	09:31
Samus_Aran	seems a pain, though. having two distros to maintain, and CPU/RAM inefficient	09:31
+Radix-wrk	Feel free to help out if you can - we need more people working on webgui and improving it	09:31
Samus_Aran	how can I deal with the suspended workflow ?	09:31
Samus_Aran	"Last State: error"	09:31
+Radix-wrk	can you force it to run?	09:32
Samus_Aran	I don't know how	09:32
Samus_Aran	I've restarted Spectre but it had no effect	09:32
Samus_Aran	I'll try restarting Apache	09:32
+Radix-wrk	I'm not as familiar with the latest versions, but you should see a workflows tab in webgui	09:32
+Radix-wrk	and can see workflows that are stuck there and restart them manually	09:33
Samus_Aran	that's only in the WRE, isn't it ?	09:33
+Radix-wrk	no	09:33
Samus_Aran	okay	09:33
+Radix-wrk	Go to Workflows	09:34
+Radix-wrk	and 'Show Running Workflows' on the far right	09:34
+Radix-wrk	You can also get there by selecting Spectre from Admin Console it looks like	09:35
Samus_Aran	I restarted Apache and then Spectre, and now it worked	09:35
Samus_Aran	the pending changes went through	09:35
+Radix-wrk	cool	09:35
Samus_Aran	cool that it works, but not cool that it seems to do this at random =/	09:35
+Radix-wrk	agreed	09:35
+Radix-wrk	no idea how you'd find that out.. but you should at least be able to see in webgui itself if there are any suspended workflows	09:36
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ryuu_ro	morning	09:38
+Radix-wrk	heya	09:39
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Samus_Aran	sigh. it's doing the slow motion thing bad. I clicked on the button to add a new user, and 2 minutes later it still hasn't added the user	09:42
+Radix-wrk	wierd	09:42
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--- Log closed Tue Feb 12 10:25:46 2008
--- Log opened Tue Feb 12 10:43:28 2008
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CIA-20	WebGUI: graham * r5418 /WebGUI/ (lib/WebGUI/Macro/AdminToggle.pm docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt): fix: don't show Admin mode toggle when not in adminModeSubnets	12:33
CIA-20	WebGUI: graham * r5419 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Content/Setup.pm): fix regression: Site starter style displays incorrectly in IE	12:33
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SDuensin	Morning all.	16:53
BartJol	morning	16:54
AMH_bob	mornin'	16:59
+Radix_	nite :)	16:59
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perlmonkey2	Is the collaboration system hopelessly complicated or am I retarded for not being able to figure out how it works?	18:08
ckotil	i have it commented out, bc its always been a pain in my ass	18:15
ckotil	i uncommented it only last week , bc someone requested a 'blog' asset, and i immediately got workflow errors in webgui.log	18:16
ckotil	so i removed it yet again, and ill figure out something else for the blog	18:16
@khenn	the collab system is complicated, but once you understand it, it makes sense	18:17
@khenn	what are you having issues with?	18:17
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perlmonkey2	khenn I thought it would be a good learning experiment to track down how the post synopsis is created and stored and to try to change its length. I couldn't even figure out how it is created, let alone stored and then displayed.	18:22
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nuba	hi folks	18:43
nuba	GooeyOfSteel is the new wiki watcher bot	18:43
+perlDreamer	where does he log to, nuba?	18:44
manishman	morning	18:45
nuba	its a quick-n-simple hack, uses Tie::File to keep the array of updates in a file	18:45
nuba	and uses HTML::TreeBuilder to lookup the first <UL> in the content area of http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki?func=recentChanges	18:46
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: WebGUI Statistics - Created on 2/6/2008 10:43 pm by knowmad http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/webgui-statistics	18:47
khenn_	perlmonkey2: synopsis is part of each asset. It's stored automatically	18:47
nuba	that how it reports wiki activity	18:48
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nuba	thats*	18:48
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+perlDreamer	that's very bool	18:48
@khenn	I'd recommend using a macro if you want to change the way synopsis is displayed.	18:48
+perlDreamer	cool	18:48
nuba	GooeyOfSteel also has a "check" feature that may help while debugging problems of people that come here	18:48
@khenn	you'd have to change core WebGUI otherwise	18:48
nuba	GooeyOfSteel: check www.imaterial.org	18:49
GooeyOfSteel	www.imaterial.org Server: Apache/2.0.59 (Unix) WebGUI/7.4.19 mod_ssl/2.0.59 OpenSSL/0.9.7i mod_apreq2-20051231/2.5.7 mod_perl/2.0.2 Perl/v5.8.8	18:49
@rizen	that's sweet	18:49
nuba	hi rizen	18:49
@rizen	howdy	18:49
+perlDreamer	sounds like I'll have two competitors for Contributor of the Year :)	18:49
@khenn	how was lala land?	18:49
@rizen	still in it, they gave me something	18:50
@khenn	gave you something?	18:50
+perlDreamer	He's sick as a misconfigured Spectre?	18:50
@rizen	yeah, got some gunk in my head	18:50
@rizen	drainage	18:50
@rizen	i'm sure it will go away quickly	18:51
@rizen	i usually fight this stuff off pretty easily	18:51
nuba	is there info on perlbot usage anywhere?	18:51
nuba	perlbot, usage	18:51
nuba	perlbot, help	18:51
perlbot	(fact) : tell (who) about (what) : (what) > (who) : learn (what) as (info) : relearn (fact) as (info) : phone (phone #) : shorten (url) : shorten it : search (keyword) : cpan (module) : docs (module) : perldoc -f (function) : jargon (term) : math (expr): fortune : flip : host (type) (record) : rot13 (text) : roll (die) : tempconv (temp) : scramble (foo) : 8ball (question) : slap (who) : diss (who) : top/bottom (number) karma : geoip (ip)	18:51
nuba	CIA-20, help	18:52
nuba	CIA-20, usage	18:52
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wgGuest84	hello	19:07
wgGuest84	i try to run the spectre and show me the next error: ADMIN: [Error] Couldn't connect to WebGUI site www.liz.com.conf at http://www.liz.com:80/?op=spectreGetSiteData. Response: 500 Server closed connection without sending any data back	19:07
wgGuest84	what i must do?	19:07
nuba	perlbot: pastebin	19:10
perlbot	(see paste)	19:10
nuba	perlbot: pasteb	19:10
nuba	perlbot: paste	19:10
perlbot	Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl http://erxz.com/pb or http://p3m.org/pfn/perl and #Perl will be able to view it.	19:10
wgGuest84	http://pastebin.com/m651f5eb7	19:10
nuba	wgGuest84: that wasnt directed to you	19:11
nuba	im just listing the available pastebins	19:11
@apeiron	nuba, There's a 'search' keyword that you can use to find factoids matching a keyword.	19:12
wgGuest84	ok	19:12
nuba	apeiron: thx	19:12
wgGuest84	then what i do?	19:13
@khenn	check your www.liz.com.conf to make sure your spectre settings are correct. The 500 error could be anything really.	19:14
nuba	is xdanger the one mantaining logs available at http://mentalhouse.net/irc/logs/webgui/ ?	19:14
@preaction	nuba, yes	19:15
@khenn	is there anything in the modproxy or modperl error logs?	19:15
@khenn	if not, bump the log level to "INFO" and see what it says	19:15
@preaction	wgGuest84, also check the webgui.log. you may also want to try accessing that URL it says to and see what it responds with	19:15
wgGuest84	no responds	19:16
wgGuest84	spectre.conf - POE::Kernel::_dispatch_event[1012] - ADMIN: Couldn't connect to WebGUI site www.liz.com.conf at http://www.liz.com:80/?op=spectreGetSiteData. Response: 500 Server closed connection without sending any data back	19:16
@preaction	sounds like an apache problem	19:17
@khenn	yeah, what does it say in the modperl log?	19:17
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manishman	!@#$	19:22
wgGuest84	http://pastebin.com/m54935e01	19:22
wgGuest84	this is error.log from apache2	19:22
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@khenn	It's complaining about not being able to load Template.pm	19:24
@khenn	not sure if this is related	19:24
@khenn	did you make changes to it?	19:24
@khenn	does it compile?	19:24
wgGuest84	i don't understand	19:25
wgGuest84	i don't make changes	19:25
@khenn	well your apache log seems to indicate that Template.pm can't be loaded	19:25
wgGuest84	i just install and don't see my pages	19:25
@khenn	so either it's not there	19:25
@khenn	or it doesn't compile	19:25
wgGuest84	mmm ok	19:26
@khenn	have you run setEnvironment?	19:26
@preaction	khenn, the new webgui seems to try to load WebGUI::Asset::Template::TemplateToolkit and ::HTMLTemplateExpr automatically	19:26
@khenn	ie are you using the right Perl?	19:26
wgGuest84	testEnviroment	19:26
wgGuest84	yes	19:26
@preaction	without even having them in the webgui.conf	19:26
@khenn	hmm	19:26
@khenn	yeah that's a problem	19:26
@preaction	renaming those to .pm.disabled or something usually works to fix this problem	19:27
@preaction	but it's probably a bug	19:27
wgGuest84	and what i do?	19:29
wgGuest84	compile Template.pm?	19:29
+perlDreamer	preaction: preload.exclude	19:30
@preaction	oh, right	19:31
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+perlDreamer	rizen: <whine> there are no pictures in the SCALE tbb posting </whine>	19:35
@rizen	what?	19:38
@rizen	i see pictures	19:39
+perlDreamer	hm	19:39
@rizen	did you actually go into the posting	19:39
@rizen	to see the comments etc	19:39
@rizen	they don't show on the front page	19:39
+perlDreamer	No. If you go to pb.com/tbb, there's no direct link to the post	19:39
@rizen	only in the post	19:39
+perlDreamer	yeah	19:39
@rizen	yes	19:39
@rizen	click on comments	19:40
+perlDreamer	Okay, got it.	19:40
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+perlDreamer	I've started teaching BartJol testing	19:44
+perlDreamer	He's going to be a monster programmer soon	19:45
@rizen	excellent	19:45
@rizen	oh yeah, ihave to send an email to koen to make sure he brings bart to the wuc	19:45
@rizen	bart really wants to come but isn't sure if koen will bring him	19:46
@rizen	=)	19:46
+perlDreamer	He's gotta be there now	19:46
+perlDreamer	Who else is going to make pumpkin soup?	19:46
manishman	umm guys	19:53
manishman	i have an issue here with mysql	19:53
+perlDreamer	WRE mysql or system mysql?	19:54
manishman	well i had mysql installed for one of my apps, then installed wre	19:54
manishman	and now when i start the mysql instance for the apps, it keeps loading the wre data location	19:54
+perlDreamer	yup	19:54
manishman	so naturally	19:54
manishman	where do change it back to my original data location?	19:54
+perlDreamer	You can't run them both at once	19:54
+perlDreamer	one can only run one or the other	19:55
manishman	which is fine PD	19:55
manishman	how can i tell it to load mysql from my original location tho?	19:55
manishman	for the data?	19:55
manishman	it keeps loading data dir from wre location	19:55
+perlDreamer	I believe that if you shut down mysql, and replace the original /etc/my.conf and then restart that it should work.	19:55
manishman	'k	19:56
manishman	let me try it	19:56
manishman	thanks	19:56
manishman	it worked!	20:00
manishman	thanks PD	20:00
+perlDreamer	you're welcome, manishman	20:00
perlmonkey2	I wonder how hard it would be to port Plone's KSS to Perl. That is a really neat idea.	20:00
perlmonkey2	If I wanted to grok all the basics of wobject develoment, which is the best wobject to start studying? I've looked at the wiki and skeleton, but I want to start fleshing out my knowledge.	20:03
+perlDreamer	The Article	20:03
perlmonkey2	cool, thanks	20:03
+perlDreamer	The individual Wobjects are so individual that it's hard to pin down one	20:03
+perlDreamer	but the Article is the easiest.	20:04
+perlDreamer	Then Folder	20:04
+perlDreamer	Nav	20:04
@rizen	collab system is probably the most complex	20:04
@rizen	either that or EMS	20:04
+perlDreamer	The CS is the granddaddy of them all	20:04
perlmonkey2	rizen: the collab system made me cry.	20:04
perlmonkey2	I feared for my life.	20:04
+perlDreamer	it makes him cry, too	20:04
@rizen	indeed	20:04
@apeiron	perlmonkey2, One of the trials by fire of working for PB is that they drop you in the CS and tell you to write patches for it in your first few months. :)	20:05
nuba	heh	20:06
@preaction	mmmmmmmm collaboration system	20:06
perlmonkey2	hah....I guess that is sink or swim with a 50lb weight tied to your ankle :D	20:06
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: IRC - Edited on 2/12/2008 11:56 am by nuba http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/irc	20:06
+perlDreamer	nuba++	20:07
nuba	thx :)	20:07
@apeiron	nuba, Maybe make the bot autokarma people's names when they submit wiki changes, like the bots in #perl6 do for commits?	20:07
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+perlDreamer	perlbot: karma nuba	20:08
perlbot	Karma for nuba: 2	20:08
perlmonkey2	wow, nice wiki post.	20:08
nuba	i thought about that, but then people may have different nicks here on IRC and on webgui.org	20:08
+perlDreamer	it would involve more screen scraping, but people could keep their nicks in their WebGUI profiles	20:09
nuba	it would make things simpler	20:09
nuba	otherwise the bot would have to manage nick maps	20:09
nuba	did it once, for a punchclock irc bot, its some extra hassle..	20:10
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klnielsen	good morning all :D	20:11
Samus_Aran	morning	20:12
* Samus_Aran yawns		20:12
Samus_Aran	Just woke up.	20:12
dionak	morning	20:14
klnielsen	Samus - lucky!	20:15
manishman	ok i'm configuring webgui	20:17
manishman	it's saying you can test the mysql instance by running mysql-test-run.pl	20:17
manishman	where is this?	20:17
+perlDreamer	perhaps wre/sbin?	20:19
nuba	manishman: you could try 'find /data -name mysql-test-run.pl'	20:20
nuba	better: /data/wre	20:20
manishman	thanks nuba	20:21
manishman	hrm. it's not with this distro	20:22
@apeiron	Looks like it's part of the MySQL source.	20:28
manishman	yeah	20:30
manishman	apeiron: Got a few minutes to get me past a roadblock? I've been at it for a while now	20:31
@apeiron	manishman, Will try. :)	20:31
klnielsen	quick question: does anyone out there have any themes to recommend?	20:36
@preaction	there's a couple nice ones in the Get Add Ons section of WebGUI.org	20:37
klnielsen	I grabbed NonZero and Envision	20:41
klnielsen	thank you, as always, sir :)	20:41
klnielsen	Hope you and Apeiron weren't here too late on Friday	20:41
klnielsen	Sorry to be a bother, but where is the class icon of the page layout asset that is my home page?	20:51
+perlDreamer	Are you in Admin mode?	20:51
klnielsen	yes	20:51
+perlDreamer	There should be an editing bar. X Edit Cut Copy Swoosh	20:51
klnielsen	I got through the first list of steps on how to change one's theme, but...	20:51
+perlDreamer	To the left of the X is the Page Layout Class icon	20:52
nuba	icons are in /extras/assets/layout.gif and /extras/assets/small/layout.gif	20:52
klnielsen	ummm	20:52
klnielsen	sorry	20:52
klnielsen	I am trying to do the first step in the second list on this page: http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/how-to-install-a-webgui-site-theme	20:53
klnielsen	what page am I on when I am doing this?	20:53
nuba	okay	20:53
nuba	you will be doing a "branch edit"	20:53
klnielsen	the page where I uploaded the wgpkg?	20:53
nuba	that means that the asset and every descendent will be edit	20:54
nuba	you will click and select "branch edit" in the small icon to the left of the editing toolbar of the asset	20:54
klnielsen	which asset?	20:54
nuba	that only appears with admin mode on	20:54
klnielsen	am I on the assets page?	20:54
nuba	you can do that from the assets manager, or from browsing the site with admin on	20:55
klnielsen	ah	20:55
klnielsen	best practices are?	20:55
nuba	go to the highest page in the hierarchy from where you want to apply the change, including it	20:55
nuba	whatevers suits you	20:56
manishman	YES!	20:56
manishman	MYSQL CONNECTED!	20:56
nuba	suppose that /home is the root of your website. go to www.yourwebsite/home?op=switchOnAdmin	20:56
+perlDreamer	Hack on, manishman!	20:56
manishman	:)	20:56
manishman	it's kind of a wierd set up	20:57
+perlDreamer	You bridged your old data onto the WRE?	20:57
manishman	no no	20:57
nuba	look for this image in the highest toolbar you see http://hq.imaterial.org/extras/assets/small/layout.gif	20:57
manishman	i got old working	20:57
manishman	but i went back to wre	20:57
manishman	silly wre set up wouldnt configure mysql	20:57
manishman	but now it's fine	20:57
manishman	i killed and restarted the database	20:57
manishman	very odd/finicky	20:57
klnielsen	ack - got it, nuba. Thank you. Sorry I am so slow.	20:58
nuba	np	20:58
nuba	you can also browse to www.yourwebsite.com/home?func=manageAssets	20:58
nuba	and click in Home at the crumbtrail	20:59
klnielsen	woot!	20:59
klnielsen	this is so neat.	20:59
nuba	crumbtrail is the "Root > Home" thing	20:59
* klnielsen will be back after her meeting		20:59
nuba	the same context menu will appear	20:59
klnielsen	nuba - got it. I have problems when learning new terms for things. I am very much a "thingie" "whatsit" kind of person.	20:59
klnielsen	:/	20:59
nuba	heh its ok	21:00
+perlDreamer	klnielsen: You'll be happy to know that we have a Thingy asset in the works already	21:00
+perlDreamer	If you tell us what a Whatsit is, we'll start planning it next :)	21:01
nuba	rizen: google now has a forms feature for their spreadsheets, plus the API	21:05
nuba	http://googledocs.blogspot.com/2008/02/stop-sharing-spreadsheets-start.html and http://code.google.com/apis/spreadsheets/overview.html	21:05
nuba	isnt this like "Thingy, Lite Edition" ?	21:06
nuba	klnielsen: just a warning, as far as I know, "edit branch" should be avoided if you have lots of descendants. I used it with ~3000 descendants (posts) and it wasnt a good experience.	21:09
+perlDreamer	It needs to be a Workflow process	21:10
nuba	i dont remember whats the reasonable limit, but probably someone else here can hint you on it	21:10
+perlDreamer	that way long processes don't have to be inside the HTTP timeout	21:10
nuba	yep	21:11
@rizen	i suppose it's like a mini thingy	21:12
@rizen	hard to say without using it	21:12
* perlDreamer goes to the gym		21:12
nuba	i wonder if it'll turn into a mini-access within google docs, in the same rank as spreadsheets, docs, presentations	21:19
nuba	google is already touting it "as a database and access data for another application via the Spreadsheets Data API"	21:23
nuba	from that to a friendly interface for the everyman seems like a small gap to bridge to me	21:24
nuba	poor ms	21:31
nuba	rizen: ive got the guy at http://chl.be/mascots/ to add gooey there.	21:33
nuba	he replied "Thank you for this report. Gooey is so cute that I couldn't wait to add it on my list. However, why don't you show it on your main page?"	21:33
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nuba	( http://chl.be/mascots/ is where wikipedia points to as external link for the list of open source mascots )	21:36
@rizen	cool	21:37
nuba	im passing on the reply cause 1) its not my main page, its yours, and 2) i agree gooey should be featured more proeminently, specially since now I have a bot called GooeyOfSteel :)	21:40
klnielsen	Does anyone know if there is a way to make multiple feeds (on a syndicated content page) sort/display by date/time rather than source?	22:47
@preaction	Display tab > something about Interlaced	22:49
klnielsen	As I have mentioned before, you are the best. :)	22:49
+perlDreamer	preaction++ rocks!	23:06
@preaction	so i have a Redirect asset with some enhancements: it also passes whatever query parameters it gets to the URL it's redirecting you to	23:19
@preaction	but there's one problem: It doesn't work through a login	23:19
+perlDreamer	so if you have to login to the site it losses the query parameters?	23:20
@preaction	the login form is given a "returnUrl" which points to the Redirect asset and adds query parameters. when the user logs in, they're redirected to the "returnUrl"	23:20
@preaction	yes	23:20
@preaction	so user goes to foo?param=bar; they're shown a form to login that now has a returnUrl of foo?param=bar, they login and for some reason they seem to be redirected to foo?param=bar BUT with the same POST form from the login	23:21
@preaction	so since it's a POST, apache2::request doesn't give me ?param=bar, and instead gives me the POST parameters	23:22
+perlDreamer	and you lose the redirect	23:22
@preaction	i'm about to write some LWP::UserAgent thing that will do automated testing of this. can't I set it to not follow redirects?	23:22
* perlDreamer shrugs "I don't know"		23:23
+perlDreamer	But recommends using Test::WWW::Mech instead	23:23
+perlDreamer	or Apache::Test	23:23
Samus_Aran	back for another day of WebGUI battling, hehe	23:24
@preaction	POST is not supposed to even BE redirectable... and there is a single HTTP code that says "Don't forward the POST, just use a GET on the URL I give you."	23:24
@preaction	i'm using that HTTP code now, and it doesn't work	23:24
nuba	preaction: $ua->simple_request will not follow redirects	23:27
@preaction	yeah, i'm getting Test::WWW::Mech now to see if it has a similar functionality	23:27
nuba	and you can make post redirectable with push @{ $ua->requests_redirectable }, 'POST';	23:28
@preaction	that's probably only when using request(), doing the transparent redirecting thing	23:28
nuba	WWW;:Mech should have, as its just LWP::UserAgent subclassed iirc	23:28
nuba	never looked at Test::WWW::Mech tho	23:29
Samus_Aran	hm. it seems like the slow motion thing is rather unpredictable. it was happening yesterday from work for a bit, then was fine the rest of the day. at home, it was super slow. now back at work today, it's very fast again (without touching spectre or anything)	23:30
nuba	gremlins	23:32
nuba	dont request any rss feed past midnight, and keep the box away from water	23:33
* Samus_Aran loved Gremlins		23:39
Samus_Aran	I had a stuffed mogwai when I was a kid, very cute	23:39
Samus_Aran	I think a dog ate it	23:40
klnielsen	Ok, one more stupid question, sorry. I can't seem to add a subscription to a calendar. I type in a url (.ics) and nothing shows up. I also remember seeing something about Spectre not running currently, but I don't remember where, nor do I remember where the neat start/stop/restart page for mysql/spectre/etc is. It was there when I was installing, but that was Friday and so long ago.	23:41
* klnielsen 's dogs eat everything		23:41
nuba	klnielsen: spectre is what will retrieve the ics file for your calendar	23:42
nuba	spctre does the fetching, mail dispathing, housekeeping, etc	23:42
klnielsen	ack. so how do I make sure that spectre is running?	23:42
nuba	spectre*	23:42
klnielsen	What a good ghost it is.	23:42
klnielsen	:D	23:42
nuba	you on the WRE?	23:42
nuba	for me its a /data/wre/sbin/rc.webgui startspectre	23:43
nuba	and to check if its running, cd /data/WebGUI/sbin ; . /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment ; perl spectre.pl --status	23:43
nuba	to test spectre: perl spectre.pl --status	23:44
klnielsen	I don't have rc.webgui in /data/wre/sbin	23:44
@apeiron	/data/wre/sbin/wreservice.pl --start spectre	23:44
nuba	oh i forgot to add, this is in a 0.7 WRE	23:44
+perlDreamer	nuba: you need to update :)	23:45
klnielsen	I installed fresh last friday...	23:45
nuba	will do, as soon as work plate gets cleaned up...	23:46
klnielsen	ack. That explains it. connection refused on 32133. But why?	23:47
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+perlDreamer	klnielsen: Are you using SELinux perhaps? Or some other firewall?	23:48
Samus_Aran	klnielsen: first off, try restarting Apache	23:49
klnielsen	actually, it is blocked	23:49
klnielsen	crap	23:49
Samus_Aran	mine keeps getting bugged out and won't connect until I restart Apache	23:49
@preaction	would it be a problem if WebGUI sent a 301 status for every type of redirect?	23:50
klnielsen	I forgot that this is in the sharenet (a walled-off portion of our intranet)	23:51
klnielsen	sorry for all the hubbub	23:51
nuba	preaction: 301 is cacheable, once redirected, the browser wont ask for it again	23:52
nuba	302 is temporary, in the sense that the redirect can change, so the browser will ask for it again next time	23:52
nuba	301 = moved permanently, 302 = found	23:52
@preaction	right, but 301 means "re-send the POST to the new address"	23:53
@preaction	303 means "just make a Get request to the new address, do not re-send the post'	23:53
@preaction	i want 303	23:53
Samus_Aran	anyone have any idea why the news section on my WebGUI says "4 replies" and then when you click on it, there is only one reply ?	23:54
+perlDreamer	klnielsen: You can always change the port, that's a completely arbitrary number	23:54
+perlDreamer	it has to be changed in BOTH spectre.conf and the webgui.conf file for your site	23:54
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klnielsen	ok, thanks for that info.	23:55
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: Cutting, pasting and deleting posts may throw the count off.	23:55
+perlDreamer	so can uncommitted or archived posts	23:55
+perlDreamer	_I think_	23:55
nuba	preaction: rfc2616 says " Many pre-HTTP/1.1 user agents do not understand the 303 status etc. etc."	23:56
nuba	you may want to check the contemporary meaning of "Many pre-HTTP/1.1 user agents"	23:57
nuba	if any is still around ;)	23:57
@preaction	it also says they treat them like 302, which it also says most UAs treat like 303 (IE no re-POST)	23:57
nuba	yep	23:58
@preaction	i'm still getting 301, so the point is really moot...	23:58
nuba	you changed it and is still getting 301?	23:58
nuba	maybe the browser cached it then	23:58
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@preaction	no, i didn't restart. i fixed it in Session::Http->sendHeader	23:59
@preaction	which, for some reason, doesn't allow you to set your own status code for the redirect	23:59
nuba	you'd probably need to restart the browser if it cached the 301 redirect	23:59
--- Day changed Wed Feb 13 2008
perlmonkey2	Why would the doman/../public/uploads directory be owned by nobody if apache needs to write to it?	00:07
+perlDreamer	apache's user is nobody?	00:07
+perlDreamer	by default	00:07
perlmonkey2	oh, not on my machine :)	00:08
+perlDreamer	except for WRE	00:08
+perlDreamer	If that's a page of wiki instructions, please feel free to edit them to make them more generic	00:08
perlmonkey2	I have a meeting in a few, but I'll do that when I get back...../me notes to himself to participate more.	00:08
+perlDreamer	perlmonkey2: You do tons already by hanging out here and doing the survey.	00:09
perlmonkey2	I have a lot to learn about WG before I can attache my survey code to a functioning WG backend.	00:10
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Samus_Aran	perlDreamer: it seems strange that it is keeping track of the replies manually, rather than simply querying the database	00:16
Samus_Aran	it only displays one reply, it should be doing the same query that comes up with the one reply	00:17
@rizen	it caches them for speed	00:17
CIA-20	WebGUI: colin * r5420 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm: add more POD to www_add	00:21
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wgGuest78	hello	00:22
wgGuest78	i have a question related to the colaboration systems	00:22
+perlDreamer	whing it on out, wgGuest78	00:23
+perlDreamer	nuba!	00:23
+perlDreamer	Before I forget, the i18n system still has the old help in it	00:23
+perlDreamer	it doesn't have to be translated	00:23
+perlDreamer	I'm going work on pruning that out this afternoon	00:23
wgGuest78	I want to edit the default submission template and to pass the attachement loop to weblog template	00:24
nuba	oh	00:24
wgGuest78	is it posible?	00:24
nuba	i translated a few of those this past weekend...	00:24
nuba	where is it going?	00:24
+perlDreamer	away	00:24
+perlDreamer	removed	00:24
+perlDreamer	echado	00:24
nuba	would it happen its been replaced by wiki?	00:24
+perlDreamer	a snapshot was taken and dumped into the wiki, yes	00:25
+perlDreamer	but only in English	00:25
nuba	well, non-english speaking users are going to need their help somewhere :/ ..	00:25
+perlDreamer	yes :(	00:26
nuba	is any strategy to preserve the existence of non-english help somewhere?	00:26
Samus_Aran	rizen: you mean, it caches them for inaccuracy. is there some way I can get it to stop caching them ?	00:27
nuba	or are W3 sites supposed to work it out by themselves?	00:27
nuba	is there*	00:27
+perlDreamer	nuba: You'd really need to ask rizen. However, the i18n is in SVN now, so once it is pruned out, it's not gone forever.	00:28
@rizen	i wasn't here when you were talking about the problem in the beginning, but the solution is to fix whatever caused them to be inaccurate in the first place, not to eliminate the cache	00:28
nuba	rizen: is there any exit strategy for the internationalized help besides /dev/null ?	00:28
Samus_Aran	I mean, when it ends up inaccurate, how can someone tell WebGUI to recalculate it ?	00:28
Samus_Aran	it looks quite unprofessional to the people I demo to that the very first news item is giving off incorrect information	00:29
@rizen	that depends upon where the inaccuracy is	00:29
@rizen	like i said, i wasn't here for that part of the conversation	00:29
+perlDreamer	you didn't miss anything there, rizen	00:30
@rizen	ok then tell me how it got inaccurate in the first place?	00:30
@rizen	did somebody do some db manipulation?	00:30
@rizen	or is it the result of a bug?	00:30
* nuba .o0O( gremlins )		00:31
@rizen	nuba: currently no plan...thinking about allowing internationalized wiki entries at wiki.plainblack.com	00:31
@rizen	thats' the only thing i can think of	00:31
nuba	perlDreamer: i've exported the current translation, so if you prune it I still have the content here	00:34
+perlDreamer	nuba, it's still in SVN, even if I prune it	00:34
nuba	true	00:34
+perlDreamer	I wouldn't purposely throw out reams of someone's hard work.	00:34
+perlDreamer	Even mine, since I wrote a big chunk of the English Help :)	00:34
nuba	rizen: i will add a wiki w/ the translated help to webgui.com.br once I get it back up	00:35
nuba	rizen: what should happen at some point in the near future	00:35
wgGuest78	perlDreamer, I want to edit the default submission template and to pass the attachement loop to weblog template. Can i do it?	00:35
nuba	rizen: btw whats the status of W3, as a project?	00:35
+perlDreamer	wgGuest78: Do you mean "copy and paste the attachment loop from the default submission template to the weblog template?"	00:36
@rizen	W3 died long ago, and this summer i rebuilt it as www.webguiworldwide.org	00:36
@rizen	which is just a conglomeration of webgui related sites	00:36
wgGuest78	yes	00:36
wgGuest78	correct	00:36
@rizen	which may or may not be translated into other languages	00:36
@rizen	if webgui.com.br isn't in there you should definitely get it added	00:37
+perlDreamer	Then, yes, I believe so. Be sure you make a copy of the original weblog submission template and to use it, since future upgrades may overwrite your changes.	00:37
wgGuest78	i did it, but did not work	00:38
nuba	webgui.com.br is dead, needs to be relaunched at least as a thin site w/ a board, translation and wiki	00:39
+perlDreamer	did you commit the template, and then tell your CS to use the new template, and then commit it, too?	00:39
+perlDreamer	wait a sec.	00:40
+perlDreamer	No, that won't work.	00:40
+perlDreamer	the templates have different sets of variables.	00:40
+perlDreamer	The weblog template is for displaying entries	00:40
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+perlDreamer	the Submission template is for making entries.	00:41
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wgGuest33	perlDreamer, excuseme i have a problem with my internet. Can you repeat me again your anwser about my question related to copy code from default submission and paste it in weblog template?	00:44
+perlDreamer	It won't work	00:44
+perlDreamer	the templates have different sets of variables.	00:44
+perlDreamer	The weblog template is for displaying entries	00:44
+perlDreamer	the Submission template is for making entries.	00:45
wgGuest33	it not posible that it woks	00:45
+perlDreamer	Na va a funciona, ni un poquito.	00:45
+perlDreamer	It won't work.	00:45
wgGuest33	do you speak spanish?	00:46
+perlDreamer	Somewhat. Just common spanish, nothing technical.	00:46
wgGuest33	ok,	00:47
wgGuest33	gracias	00:47
+perlDreamer	De nada	00:47
+perlDreamer	Si es algo que queries en WebGUI, puedes hacer un "request" aqui:	00:47
nuba	its only after you write a bot to monitor wiki activity that you notice how little activity there is going on..	00:48
+perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/rfe	00:48
wgGuest33	gracias perlDreamer, lo tendr� en cuenta	00:49
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nuba	for the latest 50 activities at the wiki, ~34 were by koen, elnino, knowmad and faino	00:53
nuba	only 13 people total	00:54
nuba	details http://webgui.pastebin.com/m7867c38f	00:55
@rizen	nuba..you should write some patches for the wiki to make it easier to expose that sort of stuff	00:57
@rizen	maybe RSS feeds or XML or JSON or something	00:57
@rizen	i'll accept them	00:57
+perlDreamer	wiki statistics	00:57
+perlDreamer	Most frequent creators, most frequent editors	00:57
Samus_Aran	rizen: to answer your Q, the "Replies" listed on a news item got out of whack. it says there are 4 replies when there are 1. no manual db manipulation, just adding/removing/changing template/deleting replies and news items	00:57
@rizen	yeah, but not just a page that displays it, but also feeds that can be used for external data manipulation	00:58
nuba	we discussed exposing the wiki's recent changes with RSS then with JSON yesterday	00:58
@rizen	Samus_Aran: what version were you running when this problem occured?	00:58
@rizen	nuba: cool...i'm just letting you know in advance that i'd approve any such patches automatically	00:59
nuba	great	00:59
@rizen	i think they're all great ideas	00:59
nuba	i hope that, with debian increasing webgui exposure, we'll see some growth in community activity soon	01:00
Samus_Aran	latest stable	01:00
@preaction	i wasn't planning on using the wiki itself, but just making another template and using a shortcut	01:01
Samus_Aran	rizen: latest stable, manual install on Ubuntu 6.06 LTS	01:01
@rizen	samus_aran: do you mean latest stable when you had the problem, or the current latest stable?	01:02
@rizen	if you mean current then submit a bug report about it	01:02
@rizen	and we'll get the problem fixed	01:02
@rizen	nuba: the trade shows we're attending should help too...did you read today's black blog?	01:03
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: but we'll need to know how to reproduce the problem	01:03
@preaction	Samus_Aran, are those replies in the Trash?	01:03
Samus_Aran	latest stable as of Thursday last week. have there been any releases since then ?	01:03
Samus_Aran	preaction: I don't think so. will check	01:03
@rizen	no new releases since then	01:03
nuba	rizen: checked it now, good news	01:04
nuba	pics appear only when I click on "comment (0)"	01:05
@rizen	yup	01:05
nuba	i know its nitpicking, but having pics behind such link - comments (0) - is a bit counter intuitive, unless you actually did read the text entirely and paid attention that there are pics somewhere to be seen.	01:07
nuba	and most people just scan their way thru the texts	01:07
@rizen	don't care	01:08
@rizen	for people that are just scanning and not reading, the pictures out of context won't make sense anyway	01:08
@rizen	plus most people will find the black blog through the news or from an rss feed	01:08
@rizen	which will take you directly to the post	01:08
@rizen	which contains the pics	01:09
* perlDreamer thinks the title should link to the whole article.		01:09
nuba	heh i happen to be the minority that checks www.plainblack.com/black-blog directly	01:09
nuba	in the minority*	01:09
Samus_Aran	preaction: sorry for the delay, no, there's nothing in the trash	01:14
* rizen hates perlDreamer for being annoyingly correct		01:16
+perlDreamer	I'm your conscience, rizen	01:19
+perlDreamer	p.s. Don't forget to buy Sarah roses for Valentine's Day.	01:20
+perlDreamer	and cook her breakfast in bed	01:20
@rizen	already got her 2 lbs of customized hershey's chocolate, and sent it to her work so that she gets lots of co-worker attention, which she really craves	01:24
@rizen	btw...i encourage you guys to check out gooey on the go...added a lot more gooey pics from scale	01:26
@preaction	okay. so now I'm thinking that both Firefox and Safari are mishandling my 303 Response and re-sending the POST to the redirect's Location	01:26
@rizen	what is a 303?	01:26
@preaction	because it can't be Apache	01:26
@preaction	303 is See Other	01:26
@rizen	interesting...haven't heard of that before	01:26
@preaction	it's supposed to function thus: you	01:26
@preaction	POST your login; it sents a 303 Redirect and you simply GET the location, not re-post	01:26
@preaction	like a 301 redirect is supposed to do	01:27
+perlDreamer	nice pictures :)	01:27
@rizen	did you try it with a 301 first	01:27
@preaction	301 is what webgui sends all redirects as, until i changed it because i thought that was the problem	01:27
@preaction	i changed it to accept setStatus like I thought it would	01:28
@rizen	maybe your browser doesn't know what to do with 303	01:28
@rizen	so you should just stick with 301	01:28
@preaction	i'll try 301 with LWP::UserAgent, but LWP::UserAgent does the right thing (the thing I expect) when it's a 303 response. if it does the right thing on a 301 response i'm going to start hurting things	01:29
@preaction	ok, weird things going on now, but i have something to work with (7 redirects in a row for some reason...)	01:32
nuba	preaction: 7 redirects in a row is the hard limit set on LWP::UserAgent	01:33
nuba	if youre getting 7 then its most like because LWP::UserAgent didnt follow the 8th	01:34
@preaction	it's probably a loop because it keeps re-posting the form because it's 301	01:37
nuba	http://search.cpan.org/~gaas/libwww-perl-5.805/lib/LWP/UserAgent.pm#$ua-%3Emax_redirect(_$n_)	01:37
@preaction	posting a form with a returnUrl gets you redirected to the url in returnUrl, 301-style. then the new url you're at reads the form (which contains a login POST), logs you in, and returns you to the returnUrl	01:37
nuba	preaction: if its of any use to you, when dealing with headers I use firefox's livehttpheaders extension a lot	01:38
@preaction	yeah, livehttpheaders doesn't show any of these redirects	01:38
nuba	good for capturing, replays, tweaks, etc	01:38
nuba	you've seen this one, right? http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec10.html	01:41
@preaction	it appears that the status code isn't the only thing that's relevant. the status description is also parsed	01:41
@preaction	if I send 301 Moved Permanently, I break WebGUI. if I just send 301 Redirect, everything works	01:43
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Samus_Aran	why is there no sitemap in WebGUI ? it simply uses the menu, which doesn't even display the page titles	01:46
Samus_Aran	I thought I remembered an actual sitemap in 4.x, though I'm not sure	01:46
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: It's just a navigation asset, with a specific template.	01:46
Samus_Aran	perlDreamer: which is my point. a sitemap should have more than just the menu items	01:47
+perlDreamer	then use a different template than the default :)	01:47
Samus_Aran	at the very least the page titles, possibly the date the page was updated and by who	01:47
+perlDreamer	I'm not sure that those are possible with the Navigation Asset, you'd have to check the online help for that list.	01:48
Samus_Aran	perlDreamer: I didn't see any template that would display titles	01:48
@preaction	he meant make your own	01:48
+perlDreamer	you _can_ add new templates?	01:48
Samus_Aran	and a few of the ones I did try were broken so that I had to click back to even use the site anymore. like the horizontal menu one, had no edit controls anymore	01:48
+perlDreamer	preaction: Get out of my head, you HTTP header hacker!	01:48
+perlDreamer	horizontal menu is for site navigation, not sitemaps	01:49
Samus_Aran	preaction: I realise I can add one, but what I don't understand is why there is no sitemap in WebGUI after almost a decade	01:49
Samus_Aran	preaction: I was trying each to see what they looked like	01:49
Samus_Aran	*perlDreamer	01:49
+perlDreamer	If you'd like to contribute a beautiful sitemap template, it could be added.	01:50
+perlDreamer	and there did use to be a sitemap asset in wG 5	01:50
nuba	Samus_Aran: the old sitemap is easily replaced with the new navigation	01:50
@preaction	Samus_Aran, there is a site map that people use and find adequate. just because it is not adequate to you does not mean that WebGUI is inherently broken. this is an open-source project, patches are welcome.	01:50
Samus_Aran	does the menu asset thing currently being used provide the variable for the page title ?	01:51
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: ?op=viewHelp	01:51
@rizen	they all provide the variable for not only page title	01:51
@rizen	but date revized, created, synopsis and more	01:51
@rizen	methinks you don't want help...you want someone to do it for you	01:51
+perlDreamer	to be precise: http://www.webgui.org/wg/contribute?op=viewHelp;hid=navigation%20template;namespace=Asset_Navigation	01:52
Samus_Aran	rizen: no, I am currently creating a site map template. I found the page.menuTitle and am checking what to change it to	01:56
Samus_Aran	which is in the URL perlDreamer provided. thank you	01:57
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: If you poke around in the wiki, and in the online Help that comes with WebGUI, you'll find a lot of useful info.	01:57
+perlDreamer	after I win the lottery, I need to learn javascript and then write the template editor with smart variable insertion.	01:59
nuba	that'd be interesting. expose JSON instead of processing, then fill in the DOM	01:59
Samus_Aran	it's starting to look like a site map. just need to drop a few more variables in	02:00
nuba	i wonder if thats really practical	02:00
+perlDreamer	It may just be a MCE plugin	02:00
+perlDreamer	that lets you pick from a list of available variables	02:01
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+perlDreamer	if it was smart, it would add in template end tags automatically	02:01
nuba	you could just as well change templates on the fly	02:01
Samus_Aran	except the template editing page doesn't display the original page anymore	02:01
+perlDreamer	if it was really smart, it would be context sensitive and change the set of variables depending on if you're inside loops or not.	02:02
Samus_Aran	(unless you're editing a template for the template editing page)	02:02
nuba	going offline, nite guys	02:03
Samus_Aran	where does the data in page.synopsis come from ?	02:06
+perlDreamer	from the synopsis entry in the Asset	02:06
Samus_Aran	I don't recall seeing one of those. goes to look more closely	02:06
+perlDreamer	excuse me, it's the "summary" entry	02:07
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Samus_Aran	okay	02:07
+Radix-wrk	mornin' all :)	02:08
+perlDreamer	Yo, Radix-wrk.	02:08
Samus_Aran	why did WebGUI choose to use JS for opening pages in new windows, rather than a frameset control [which works in all browsers]	02:15
Samus_Aran	+ ?	02:15
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@preaction	target="" is not XHTML 1.0 Strict compliant	02:17
Samus_Aran	perlDreamer: that page you gave me doesn't list a last modified date. is this variable available from somewhere else, or just not exist ?	02:17
Samus_Aran	preaction: the most common web browser (MSIE) does not support XHTML	02:17
@preaction	we don't fix IE bugs	02:18
Samus_Aran	4.01 Transitional makes a lot more sense	02:18
@preaction	i'd rather not get into yet another philosophical debate about HTML and XHTML. #css is a much better channel for those	02:18
Samus_Aran	if a textual user agent tries to use the site and reaches one of those links, they will see <a href="#"> which is completely broken for them	02:19
Samus_Aran	you mean #web	02:19
@preaction	i agree that XHTML 1.0 Strict is not the optimal doctype for anything. I would prefer WebGUI to use HTML 4.01 Strict	02:19
Samus_Aran	CSS is for CSS	02:19
@preaction	no. i mean the happy people at #css love these kind of debates	02:19
Samus_Aran	*#CSS is for CSS	02:19
Samus_Aran	oh	02:19
Samus_Aran	I've never been in there	02:19
Samus_Aran	I am talking about end user functionality	02:19
Samus_Aran	MSIE doesn't support XHTML at all. user agents without Javascript can not use the site	02:20
Samus_Aran	is it not possible to at least use the URL in the JS link, so that non-JS aware browsers will go to it in the current page (which is what happens with non-frameset aware browsers with target="") ?	02:22
Samus_Aran	something like <a href="http://real_url/" onClick...>	02:22
Samus_Aran	I tend to avoid JS, and especially avoid opening links in new windows, so I'm not too sure if that can work or not	02:23
@preaction	once again: this is not the place to request features	02:23
Samus_Aran	that was a question there	02:25
+perlDreamer	Samus_Aran: The navigation asset doesn't have such a variable right now. If you'd like one, please submit an RFE.	02:29
Samus_Aran	perlDreamer: okay, thank you	02:31
CIA-20	WebGUI: colin * r5421 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Navigation.pm: clarify that synopsis==summary	02:31
+perlDreamer	It's a pretty simple one to add, I wouldn't doubt that it would be approved.	02:31
Samus_Aran	I tried adding the page.synopsis to a title="" for the <a> tag, but it is popping up the name of the variable. is there something a variable needs to be contained inside ?	02:32
Samus_Aran	oh sorry <tmpl_var >	02:33
Samus_Aran	missed that with all the < > around there	02:33
+perlDreamer	title="<tmpl_var page.synopsis>" should work fine	02:34
+perlDreamer	if it doesn't please submit a bug report, or, you could try the Design Forum on pb.com	02:34
Samus_Aran	it's working fine	02:35
Samus_Aran	I just missed that it needed a container	02:35
Samus_Aran	it pops up a description of the page in the sitemap, if one is available	02:36
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danny_mk	Hello everyone	02:52
danny_mk	is there a way to pass parameters to a url in a http proxy?	02:52
danny_mk	url to proxy: http://www.mywebsite.com/^FormParam('id');	02:55
@preaction	http://webgui.pastebin.com/d3c3ef1bf <- here are the headers from the request chain that I set off	02:57
@preaction	the returnUrl is sent with the POST data, but the Location header from the response is completely wrong	02:58
@preaction	it's not the Location that my debug code tells me is being sent	02:58
@preaction	i'm beginning to wonder if it's somehow due to keep-alive reusing the WebGUI session	02:59
@preaction	because my script that uses LWP::UserAgent to send the same request does the right thing	03:00
@preaction	but it can't be that because WRE's mod_perl turns off KeepAlive	03:02
@preaction	it seems to happen if I send a redirect to the same location	03:16
Samus_Aran	I just added a reply to a comment on the news items (the one where it shows "4 replies" for one reply), and now it shows "7 replies" for the two	03:22
Samus_Aran	added a reply to the second reply, and it went up to "8 replies"	03:24
Samus_Aran	it seems a single reply is worth anywhere from 1 to 4 replies for the counter	03:25
+Radix-wrk	Sounds like a bug to me.. submit it :)	03:26
Samus_Aran	is there a page handy explaining how to install a wgpkg ?	03:30
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@preaction	Asset Manager there's a Packages section below the assets, there should be a form input for importing a package in there	03:31
Samus_Aran	are they zip files (if I wanted to look at the source) ?	03:31
+Radix-wrk	no	03:31
@preaction	they're tar files	03:32
danny_mk	Hi preaction	03:37
danny_mk	got a quick question for you.	03:38
@preaction	is it the question you asked at 18:55 about parameters to a URL in an HTTP Proxy?	03:38
danny_mk	no	03:38
danny_mk	it is about writting an activity	03:38
danny_mk	I can't find any good documentation on workflow and activities	03:39
danny_mk	but I will have to write about 12 of them	03:39
danny_mk	is there a good example anywhere or do I have to read through the code?	03:39
+Radix-wrk	nothing in the wiki?	03:40
danny_mk	nope	03:40
danny_mk	check it out	03:40
@preaction	most likely you'll have to read through the code	03:40
danny_mk	darn	03:40
+Radix-wrk	there's a workflow skeleton	03:41
danny_mk	ok	03:41
danny_mk	I know	03:41
danny_mk	I got that	03:41
danny_mk	I think you mean an activity skeleton right? I did not find any workflow skeletons	03:42
+Radix-wrk	yeah	03:43
+Radix-wrk	they're one and the same I think	03:43
@preaction	you don't write workflows. workflows are made from the user interface	03:43
@preaction	they contain activities, which you can write	03:43
danny_mk	that is what I thought. I write the activity right?	03:43
danny_mk	ok	03:43
danny_mk	however, how do I run the activity at a certain time	03:44
danny_mk	don't I use the workflow for that?	03:44
@preaction	you create a workflow that has that activity	03:44
danny_mk	and that is where I get lost	03:44
danny_mk	OK, once I ad my own activity and include it in my config file	03:45
+Radix-wrk	Workflows can run multiple activities	03:45
danny_mk	then the activity should show up when I create a new workflow	03:45
danny_mk	right?	03:45
+Radix-wrk	yep	03:46
danny_mk	cool. OK, got it.	03:46
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danny_mk	how about the http proxy question?	03:47
danny_mk	not to push my luck to much :-)	03:47
danny_mk	there is no way to pass it parameters huh?	03:48
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@preaction	lesson learned today: Redirecting an HTTP UA to the same URL as you POSTed to will POST again regardless of the redirect status code	05:56
@preaction	so can anyone think of any possible way that making all default login forms POST to the root of the site would backfire on me?	05:57
@preaction	i'm going to be writing a bunch of WWW::Mech tests to make sure, of course	05:57
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CIA-20	WebGUI: graham * r5422 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/docs/upgrades/_upgrade.skeleton: Merge 7.5 upgrade skeleton changes	09:29
CIA-20	WebGUI: graham * r5423 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Start of 7.4.23 dev	09:29
CIA-20	WebGUI: graham * r5424 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fix CalendarUpdateFeeds causing warnings in logs	09:29
CIA-20	WebGUI: graham * r5425 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (6 files in 4 dirs): package importing fixes	09:29
CIA-20	WebGUI: graham * r5426 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/VersionTag.pm): fix rolling back version tags with an asset with a later revisionDate than a child	09:29
CIA-20	WebGUI: graham * r5427 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/docs/ (3 files in 3 dirs): added tab fields to dataform default email template	09:29
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CIA-20	WebGUI: graham * r5428 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (lib/WebGUI/Macro/AdminToggle.pm docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt): fix: don't show Admin mode toggle when not in adminModeSubnets	09:29
CIA-20	WebGUI: graham * r5429 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.4.23 release	09:29
CIA-20	WebGUI: jt * r5430 /releases/WebGUI_7.4.23-stable: Release 7.4.23-stable	09:29
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nuba	is anyone already playing with the gallery asset?	15:56
nuba	i cant find where to add albums	15:56
nuba	hm, manually appending 'func=add;class=WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::GalleryAlbum' to my gallery asset's URL	16:00
BartJol	ah, i should know, I've made the translations	16:05
BartJol	but, since that is a mindless job, I don't have it right away	16:05
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BartJol	nuba, i found this variable for the adding of an album: helpvar url_addAlbum	16:31
BartJol	but I don't have 7.5 installed, so I can't look for it	16:32
nuba	thx BartJol. now I wonder if this gallery is currently usable at all or if im doing something wrong	16:32
BartJol	well, sometimes the wobject had to be submiited via the version tag first, before items can be added to it, have you submitted the version tag?	16:33
SDuensin	Morning.	16:33
BartJol	morning	16:33
nuba	im running SVN HEAD, maybe I should go back to the 7.5.1 release to test this..	16:34
BartJol	I wouldn't know... sorry	16:34
nuba	np, thx for the pointer anyway	16:35
Radix__	cool util - http://www.yougetsignal.com/tools/web-sites-on-web-server/	16:49
Radix__	I found JT's RareBlack.com server :)	16:49
nuba	nice	16:55
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perlmonkey2	Anyone else use lifera? I can never get it to update the tbb.	17:41
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wgGuest57	hello	17:56
wgGuest57		17:56
perlmonkey2	hello	17:58
perlmonkey2	wgGuest57: howdy howdy	17:58
wgGuest57	?	17:59
wgGuest57	how to do for i get a data from the database in a macro?	17:59
perlmonkey2	from WG tables or your own custom tables?	18:00
wgGuest57	of webgui	18:01
perlmonkey2	the AOIRank Macro is a great example of a simple DB query to WG tables.	18:01
wgGuest57	thanks	18:02
perlmonkey2	de nada	18:02
wgGuest57	me sirve mucho	18:03
wgGuest57	porque no sabia el link	18:03
wgGuest57	y necesitaba un ejemplo	18:03
wgGuest57	gracias	18:03
perlmonkey2	ah....My Espanol is extremely pico	18:05
perlmonkey2	sabia?	18:05
perlmonkey2	ejemplo?	18:05
perlmonkey2	I'll use a translator :D	18:05
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wgGuest57	sabia = know	18:07
wgGuest57	ejemplo = example	18:07
BartJol	hi rizen thanks for the mail to Koen :)	18:07
@rizen	np	18:08
perlmonkey2	wgGuest57: just got that from babelfish :) Glad I could help (and I really need to study my Spanish more).	18:08
wgGuest57	i could you helps with spanish	18:10
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perlmonkey2	I think the kind of help I need requires long hours spent at an online tutorial.	18:12
perlmonkey2	I remember most of the rules, but I have forgotten a lot of nouns and verbs.	18:12
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wgGuest83	test	18:15
perlmonkey2	123	18:15
wgGuest83	Is there any way to setup webgui to clean cache automatically	18:17
wgGuest57	jajaja	18:17
wgGuest57	yes	18:17
wgGuest83	how	18:17
wgGuest57	yo creo = i think so	18:17
ckotil	you can schedule a workflow to do it	18:17
ckotil	or add a cronjob to delete /tmp/filecache (not sure if this is where it actually resides)	18:18
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BartJol	oh and besides my horrible image editing, this is what I have in mind for the webguiunderwear:	18:25
BartJol	http://bart.procolix.com/presentatie-webgui-borrel-20080214/andere-toekomst/vragen	18:25
BartJol	fluffy wastbands are a must	18:26
@rizen	that's just nasty	18:26
BartJol	yeah, i said, my image editing is horrible	18:27
BartJol	I will try to make a female version too	18:27
BartJol	that might be less appaling	18:28
perlmonkey2	BartJol: That is awesome!	18:28
BartJol	thanks	18:28
CIA-20	WebGUI: graham * r5431 /WebGUI/docs/ (3 files in 3 dirs): really added tab fields to dataform default email template	18:29
CIA-20	WebGUI: graham * r5432 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/ (2 files in 2 dirs): oops	18:29
CIA-20	WebGUI: jt * r5433 /translations/ (230 files in 23 dirs): fixing problems	18:29
CIA-20	WebGUI: jt * r5434 /translations/polish: fixing problems	18:29
BartJol	but I have to go now	18:33
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@rizen	nuba: you got your wish, gooey is now on the front page of webgui.org	18:39
+perlDreamer	aw, and he's blushing because we caught him coming out of the shower with his towel on	18:39
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@apeiron	I hereby volunteer to be the winged toga-wearing gooey mascot at the next WUC.	18:42
+perlDreamer	I second the motion (to avoid volunteering myself)	18:43
@rizen	i hereby volunteer perlDreamer to be the cthulu gooey mascot at the next wuc	18:43
* perlDreamer resolves not to shave and to die himself green from head to toenails		18:44
@rizen	http://www.plainblack.com/extras/macro/GooeyDate/halloween.gif	18:44
perlmonkey2	heh	18:44
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wgGuest24	hello	18:47
wgGuest24	There is some function in webgui I handed the key of the user, which is encrypted and stored in the database?	18:47
+perlDreamer	yes	18:47
nuba	when i first saw the halloween version of gooey in the webgui chinese site, i thought it was an hybrid of gooey and a chinese dragon	18:48
wgGuest24	what?	18:48
nuba	rizen: cool about gooey there	18:49
wgGuest24	the password, i mean identifier of table authentication	18:49
+perlDreamer	yes, it's stored as a base64 MD5 hash	18:49
wgGuest24	yes, i know, but i need in a macro,	18:50
wgGuest24	in webgui there some functon that do this?	18:51
wgGuest24	or i have to construct?	18:51
+perlDreamer	It's a simple 1-line call : $encryptedPassword = Digest::MD5::md5_base64($password);	18:51
+perlDreamer	So you'll have to do it yourself, but it's very easy to do.	18:52
+perlDreamer	You should also check the wiki for a tutorial on how to build macros.	18:53
nuba	btw i think when I was reading this past month's channel log, someone said you cannot get the password out of the MD5 hash	18:54
+perlDreamer	well, MD5 has been cryptographically hacked, so technically you can supply a password which will match the hash, but in general, you're right	18:54
nuba	just so you guys know, you can find a string that causes hash collision	18:54
+perlDreamer	hashes are supposed to be 1-way functions	18:55
nuba	depending on the size of the string, its a one day computing job	18:55
wgGuest24		18:55
nuba	on the average joe's wprkstation	18:55
nuba	workstation*	18:55
nuba	i've done i once to find a 6-letter password in one of the missions at hackthissite.org	18:56
+perlDreamer	cool	18:57
nuba	when hackthissite.org was the new thing on the block and I used to hav free time in my hands	18:57
nuba	have*	18:57
nuba	looong ago	18:57
+perlDreamer	I built a hardware SHA-1 implementation, so I've tried to follow the crypto stuff since.	18:58
+perlDreamer	It's very fun	18:58
+perlDreamer	but I haven't done any reverse engineering or hacking	18:58
+perlDreamer	just reading	18:58
wgGuest24	?	18:58
+perlDreamer	wgGuest24: Are you asking a new question, or didn't you see my response above?	18:58
wgGuest24	new question	18:59
+perlDreamer	Could you repeat it, please?	19:00
wgGuest24	What I want to know is whether there is any function that I hand over the key of the user who is logged on, namely that I declare $identifier = ..., and Because when there is an update can change the structure of the database and can be damaged my macro function if I do this manually	19:01
+perlDreamer	I did answer that question above.	19:01
+perlDreamer	It's a simple 1-line call : $encryptedPassword = Digest::MD5::md5_base64($password);	19:01
+perlDreamer	So you'll have to do it yourself, but it's very easy to do.	19:01
+perlDreamer	You should also check the wiki for a tutorial on how to build macros.	19:02
wgGuest24	i know build macros, and too know digest::MD5, but then no there some way of call a function of webgui?	19:02
+perlDreamer	Well, you'd need a User object.	19:04
+perlDreamer	Will this macro be called on the current user, or a different one?	19:05
wgGuest24	current	19:05
+perlDreamer	in that case, $session->user will give you the user object that you need	19:05
wgGuest24	yes	19:05
+perlDreamer	$user->identifier($encryptedIdentifier)	19:05
+perlDreamer	will change the user's password	19:05
+perlDreamer	hang on a sec	19:06
+perlDreamer	that's an old method	19:06
+perlDreamer	it's going to go away	19:06
wgGuest24	this is for validated or for change the password?	19:07
+perlDreamer	change the password	19:07
wgGuest24	no, i need validated, how to do?	19:07
wgGuest24	i need compare the password	19:08
+perlDreamer	That's a little more difficult, since WebGUI allows more than one method for validating users.	19:09
+perlDreamer	If you'll only, ever use WebGUI authentication, it can be done.	19:09
+perlDreamer	Why do you need to build a new/different way of validating users?	19:09
wgGuest24	no, i need compare two password, the is in the database with other that the user write	19:11
+perlDreamer	In WebGUI, if you don't use WebGUI authentication, or LDAP authentication, you have to build a new authentication plugin (like WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI, or WebGUI::Auth::LDAP)	19:12
wgGuest24	then i need know if webgui have a function that gives me a pass of user	19:12
+perlDreamer	The answer to that is no.	19:12
wgGuest24	ok	19:12
+perlDreamer	WebGUI only stores encrypted passwords, not plain text ones	19:12
wgGuest24	thank	19:12
wgGuest24	yes	19:12
nuba	wgGuest24: You need to compare the user's password in the database with a string the user will provide?	19:12
wgGuest24	i need the password in the database, a function that gives me this	19:13
nuba	perlDreamer: he can compare PWDHASH = md5(string provided by the user)	19:13
wgGuest24	yes	19:14
nuba	where PWDHASH is the encrypted password stored in webgui's database	19:14
wgGuest24	how to get this password Without using a query to the database directly	19:14
nuba	Im not sure you can get the hash with the WebGUI API	19:25
nuba	it would most likely be here if it existed http://www.webgui.org/downloads/builds/7.5.1-beta/api/User.html	19:26
@rizen	you can't get a password because they are stored in a one way hash	19:26
nuba	rizen: it seems he wants to one-way-hash another string and compare it with the pwd	19:26
@rizen	you use the authenticate() method for that	19:28
@rizen	but it won't give you the user's password hashed or not	19:28
wgGuest24	i need compare two hash	19:28
@rizen	it just wants you to give it the hash	19:28
@rizen	it will do the comparison for you	19:28
wgGuest24	i need convert the text in digest md5	19:29
@rizen	what you want to do doesn't matter. i'm telling you that the api won't give you the password under any circumstances	19:29
wgGuest24	i just need the password from the database whitout use a query in the macro	19:29
nuba	wgGuest24: read about authenticate() at http://www.webgui.org/downloads/builds/7.5.1-beta/api/Auth.html	19:30
wgGuest24	mmm, then i have to do a query	19:30
nuba	you pass the string provided by the user to it	19:30
nuba	and it will do the work for you	19:30
nuba	instead of thinking what you want to implement, think about what you need to accomplish	19:31
nuba	it seems to me with authenticate() you'll write less code and reach the same result	19:34
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nuba	heh, interesting "CMSs in-a-nutshell" from a random guy in #javascript:	19:47
nuba	lefnire> wordpress if you don't know shit, joomla if you are a developer handing of a client that will manage their own site from now on, drupal if you are in house developing the site but client still wants to manage their own content, django/rails if you're in house doingn all the web work	19:47
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nuba	btw I dont endorse anything he says nor do I agree with him, just found interesting his effort to build a big picture of the CMSs araound	19:52
nuba	around*	19:52
@rizen	perlmonkey2: have you decided whether you can come to the wuc or not? and if so are you willing to talk about survey 2.0?	19:59
perlmonkey2	I really am planning on it. But I don't know when I'll be able to work on the survey. I have a lot of the client side done, but I need to start on the server side, which means I have to learn most of the WG library.	20:01
perlmonkey2	I've started on that, but there is a lot to learn.	20:01
perlmonkey2	WG is huge.	20:01
perlmonkey2	Bah, I'll be there and the survey will have a working version. I told work I wasn't working many weeknights or weekends anymore, so I'll have time.	20:02
klnielsen	I was wondering: I have been attempting to add an .ics feed to my calendar, but nothing shows up. Is there a way to force an update?	20:13
klnielsen	(Spectre is working, or running at least)	20:13
nuba	klnielsen: can you manually retrieve the .ics and check if it is is OK?	20:16
nuba	klnielsen: or did you check if the URL you gave WebGUI for the .ics is OK?	20:16
klnielsen	I did	20:18
klnielsen	I am subscribed elsewhere	20:18
nuba	good	20:19
nuba	found anything in your webgui.log ?	20:19
klnielsen	ack	20:19
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klnielsen	Cannot generate recurring events: Event has no recurrence pattern at /data/WebGui/lib/WebGui/Workflow/Activity/CalendarUpdateFeeds.pm line 394	20:21
@rizen	perlmonkey2 that's great news	20:24
perlmonkey2	Hopefully I can get it done in time to help out on the commerce system.	20:24
@rizen	that would be really cool	20:25
perlmonkey2	Looks like a lot of fun	20:25
klnielsen	Not to sound as remedial as I am, but does the logged error above mean that WebGUI simply doesn't like recurring events?	20:32
klnielsen	it seems odd since the option is offered if you are entering an event by hand	20:33
klnielsen	is it the ics format?	20:33
klnielsen	the fact that it is google-hosted?	20:34
@rizen	it could be a bug in webgui as well	20:34
@rizen	i don't know anything about the calendar so i shouldn't comment	20:34
klnielsen	poop.	20:35
@preaction	sounds like a bug to me	20:41
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@preaction	and i do know about the calendar. but i think graham is working on fixing that the right way soon	20:42
klnielsen	woot	20:42
klnielsen	thank you, sir	20:42
klnielsen	sirs	20:42
klnielsen	everyone	20:42
@preaction	Haarg, how's the change to using ical recurrence patterns throughout the calendar coming?	20:42
@Haarg	i have the recurrence stuff ripped out and replaced	20:45
@preaction	sweet	20:45
@Haarg	the hardest thing that i haven't dealt with yet is translating the ical to the form	20:46
@preaction	the module doesn't help with that?	20:47
@preaction	durn	20:47
@Haarg	one of them might	20:47
@preaction	no worries, just wondering	20:47
@Haarg	the one that generates the recurrence patterns doesn't	20:47
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@Haarg	actually, i guess i hacked out code to translate ical recurrence to what the calendar is using now	20:50
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@Haarg	shouldn't be too hard to adapt that to generate the form instead	20:51
klnielsen	is there another shared calendar format I can use?	20:51
klnielsen	I think google offers a few...	20:51
klnielsen	ical would be best, tho	20:51
@Haarg	ical is what the calendar supports	20:51
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+perlDreamer	So do y'all have any ideas about the perl bug that I found?	20:52
+perlDreamer	Since it happens on two different OS'es, I was thinking I could take it back to the perl porters	20:52
@preaction	perlDreamer, that's where i would start. or misc@perl.org perhaps?	20:53
@preaction	if there is a misc@	20:53
+perlDreamer	The big bummer is that when I tried to minimize the bug, it went away	20:53
+perlDreamer	so you have to install WebGUI to debug it	20:55
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@rizen	subversion sucks ass	21:14
@rizen	at least trying to compile subversion sucks ass	21:14
@rizen	i had forgotten how much i hated it	21:14
@rizen	wow our irc wiki page is really cool	21:19
@rizen	i hadn't read it before	21:19
@rizen	well, at least not since i created it	21:19
nuba	im using svk and enjoying it. keeps my depot in sync with plainblack's svn, and allows me to branch and commit my work	21:19
@rizen	i'm compiling a new version of subversion of pb svn	21:20
klnielsen	rizen: agreed. I'm getting help because of it. :)	21:20
@rizen	can't really use svk for that	21:20
@rizen	klnielsen: be sure to put whatever knowledge you gain into the wiki so others can bask in it's glory	21:21
@rizen	=)	21:21
nuba	rizen: while you're at it, can you delete this? /community-wiki/irc---webgui-channel	21:23
@rizen	done	21:24
nuba	thx	21:25
perlmonkey2	In the source install guide in the wiki I want to change this "chown -Rf nobody uploads" to let people knwo that nobody should be replaced with their httpd user if it isn't nobody. Should I just put that in parens next to it?	21:29
@rizen	or a note above or below it	21:29
nuba	rizen: in the 1189004211 revision of community-wiki/irc baylink added a paragraph stating the channel is not for webgui users, but for developers only. Is that accurate? Dont we want power users, non-devel-people, here too?	21:31
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: Source Install - Edited on 2/13/2008 1:21 pm by perlm http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/source-install	21:31
nuba	perlmonkey2++	21:32
@rizen	nuba, sure it's for anybody	21:33
@preaction	we'll take all comers, really. there's just a limit to how much "WebGUI is broken because it doesn't do what I want how I want" that some people (myself included) will put up with	21:33
* perlmonkey2 is obviously a contributor to preaction headaches.		21:34
@preaction	doesn't mean i'm issuing +b, but i will start /ignoring	21:34
* rizen also pisses off preaction but for different reasons		21:34
@preaction	because jt doesn't listen when I say WebGUI is broken because it doesn't do what I want how I want	21:34
perlmonkey2	rizen: Any chance we'll be able to play with the latest WDK soon?	21:35
@rizen	nope	21:37
@rizen	didn't you just hear me say that i hate subversion	21:37
perlmonkey2	I wonder if git is any better.	21:37
@rizen	it's not	21:37
@rizen	and really my problem isn't with subversion, it's with swig, which is what they use for perl bindings	21:38
perlmonkey2	Oh, subversion's WDK tie in.	21:38
nuba	where is baylink these day? baylink = jay, right?	21:44
nuba	days*	21:45
@apeiron	eeeeeeew, swig	21:45
@rizen	if you're going to ask, you should ask about someone who actually contributed to the community	21:46
@rizen	like pederson	21:46
nuba	yeah, from baylink.pitas.com "I'm Jay Ashworth. I've been an opinionated bastard on the net for about 12 years now, ..."	21:46
nuba	I think that by nitpicking you he might have helped you elaborate on your ideas and on webgui's design too	21:50
nuba	even if it wasnt a pleasant experience	21:50
@rizen	i'm certain that every person i've come in contact with on the webgui project has influenced my decision making...however, there are certainly some that are more valuable than others	21:51
@rizen	and he's not near the top of my list	21:51
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nuba	bbiaw	21:53
perlmonkey2	Does "Survey2.0" or "AJAXSurvey" sound better for the wobject name?	22:03
@rizen	just Survey	22:04
@rizen	cuz the old one is going away	22:04
perlmonkey2	Okay	22:04
@apeiron	. in package names tends to make perl go asplodey, too.	22:05
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perlmonkey2	There isn't really any documentation on the webgui libraries, is there? Like I'm looking at how getEditForm works, but I'm jumping around to try to piece its functionality together, which makes it hard to get the big picture.	22:15
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wgGuest59	hello	22:16
@preaction	perlmonkey2, the big picture is in Asset.pm->getEditForm, but you should know that if the definition has autoGenerateForms => 1, you don't need to play with getEditForm.	22:16
wgGuest59	i have a site that when i go to the map site i obtain an error but only in internet explorer	22:17
perlmonkey2	preaction: I'm looking through that super right now. Just trying to see how it all works because the survey editform will have to be a custom template with a whole ton of event methods for handling client callbacks.	22:17
perlmonkey2	Just hoping there was a "wall of text" laying it out for the simply minded :)	22:18
@preaction	right, but it should only need that for one of the tabs, no?	22:18
@preaction	and are you sure you want the Survey editor to be on the same page as the Asset properties?	22:18
perlmonkey2	preaction: see, I hadn't thought of htat.	22:18
@preaction	i worry that editing a Survey for an uncommited survey asset will be difficult	22:19
@preaction	or rather, at the same time you create one	22:19
+perlDreamer	like a CS, Calendar and Gallery	22:19
perlmonkey2	well, an asset should be one survey. And the survey's top level config is going to be all ajaxified too.	22:19
@preaction	(when the assetId is still "new")	22:19
perlmonkey2	preaction: okay....very good point.	22:19
@preaction	top-level config? you mean title, description, and the like? sounds like bad juju	22:19
perlmonkey2	no fancy smancy until it is created.	22:19
perlmonkey2	yes	22:19
@preaction	you can have a proceed=editSurvey in your edit form that will bring the user right to the www_editSurvey method after they click "Save" if you want	22:20
@preaction	but i'd only do that if it's a new survey	22:20
perlmonkey2	once the survey is created though, a lot of options will be locked, because it will break the question-answer-response model to change them.	22:21
@preaction	or make it a select box like it is on Layout assets and Folder assets	22:21
wgGuest59	the error is that a script is causing that internet explorer is running slowly, the pc would leave of working if the script continues running	22:21
perlmonkey2	preaction: Okay, sold :)	22:21
wgGuest59	do you know what is it about?	22:21
@preaction	perlmonkey2, what if those things that would break the survey are on the editSurvey screen instead?	22:21
wgGuest59	because in firefox it works.	22:22
@preaction	perlmonkey2, nm, dunno how that would work	22:22
perlmonkey2	preaction: I see no real reason not to do that. But it would break up the initial survey configuration into multiple screens.	22:22
perlmonkey2	But if I don't put them on multiple pages I'll have to figure out how to lock out options in the generated tab form.	22:23
@preaction	it is a chore, yes. but when you start storing questions/answers/sections in the database (in a collateral table i expect, not the Survey table), you're going to thank me	22:23
@preaction	that's easy enough, make it a readonly instead of a text or select	22:24
perlmonkey2	preaction: So I would have conditions in the definition? Or update the properties in the editform?	22:26
@preaction	you'd have the conditions in the getEditForm method	22:26
@preaction	and you'd set "autoGenerate => 0" in the properties in the definition for those properties	22:26
perlmonkey2	if ($self->get("assetId") ne "new") {//update def properties from inputs to read only ?	22:27
+perlDreamer	then it can never be altered/updated by the user	22:27
@preaction	$self->getId, or if that doesn't work then $self->session->form->get('assetId'), but yes	22:27
@preaction	you might want to do it the other way though	22:27
@preaction	update them to be editable on creation. with sane defaults.	22:28
perlmonkey2	preaction: Okay, let me sum up what you've advised. I should put options that will break the user inputted question-answer model in the survey edit/creation page, and only put non-destructive options in the tabform. But if I were to put them in the tabform, I could protect them from being altered in the way we just discussed?	22:29
@preaction	basically, yes	22:30
@preaction	i would advocate the first opinion though. i don't like the idea of having things you can't re-change on the asset edit screen	22:30
perlmonkey2	Okay, I'm easily convinced.	22:31
perlmonkey2	I'm all for best practices.	22:31
@preaction	but then, i don't like that you can't change those survey things either. but i'm not about to second-guess your opinion	22:31
perlmonkey2	It is intuative why they can't be changed, but I don't want to let the user shoot themselves in the foot.	22:31
@preaction	true enough	22:31
perlmonkey2	Okay, I think I'm getting the overall arch I'll need. I'll use the tabforms for the survey creation and then replace the current survey's HTMLForms with templates and my JS client code.	22:39
perlmonkey2	Too bad I can't use the HTMLForms, seems like a very slick generic asset edit templating system.	22:40
@preaction	it's not much a template system as it is a generator	22:42
@preaction	and you probably should use it, do you want the user to be able to edit the template of the survey editor?	22:42
perlmonkey2	no	22:42
@preaction	then you probably want to use HTMLForm to generate it	22:43
perlmonkey2	Do generate the edit questions/answers and have the drag and drops, etc?	22:43
@preaction	you can write raw HTML to an HTMLForm, if necessary	22:44
perlmonkey2	There will only be one edit survey page. It will be some static html/css building the layout of the page, and then a whole lot of JS. Would the HTMLForm be better than a custom template?	22:46
perlmonkey2	I'm not really going to be able to take advantage of anything the HTMLForm offers except the far right column options and the top halo text	22:47
+perlDreamer	that's the Admin Console, no the HTML form	22:48
perlmonkey2	Before I get started on this, I think it needs a lot more planning out. I dont' want to create a one-off paradigm of doing this. I mean, how should web2.0 interfaces be grafted into the existing standard asset editing interface?	22:54
perlmonkey2	The current HTMLForm is for auto-generating html <input>s for needed parameters. But the new survey will have dynamic params and need input added, deleted, updated.	22:55
+perlDreamer	you mean like the DataForm?	22:57
perlmonkey2	I've never looked at the dataform...I'll go look	22:57
@rizen	perlmonkey2...you're pretty much going to need to one off it for the survey	22:58
@rizen	and then we'll need to base our design decisions for the asset system going forward based upon what you do there	22:58
@rizen	i know it sucks, but if you don't do it this way, you'll get mired down into a swamp from which you will never return	22:59
perlmonkey2	I could fit it into the HTMLForm, but it would basically just be the HTMLForm wrapping everything I do in a raw call.	22:59
@preaction	perlmonkey2, i've got some unreleased code that does a lot of javascript stuff in the Asset Edit form (no ajax, ajax can't be done in the asset edit form because the edit form is shown before the asset exists in the database)	23:00
perlmonkey2	Okay...I think I can figure it out from here then :)	23:00
perlmonkey2	preaction: I'd love to look at it, but the asset edit shouldn' tneed any JS now.	23:00
@preaction	if you want an example. check out my experimental branch: https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/branch/doug-experimental	23:00
@preaction	k	23:00
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* perlmonkey2 grumbles about going into work for a 4pm meeting when I'm all excited about actually having the client code working inside WG. AFK for a few hours.		23:23
wgGuest59	hello	23:24
wgGuest59	i have some sites in webgui 7.3.22, can i update directly to the latest version or is better to upgrade first to 7.4.0?	23:25
@preaction	7.4.21 is the next step. the 7.5.0 and 7.4.22 upgrades won't let you upgrade from 7.3.22	23:27
wgGuest59	i have to upgrade from 7.3.22 to 7.4.21	23:27
wgGuest59	ok	23:33
wgGuest59	thanks	23:33
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* klnielsen just got back from lunch to find that she has been asking n00b questions in the dev chan. Sorry everyone!		23:53
+perlDreamer	n00b questions are fine	23:53
+perlDreamer	this isn't just a dev chan	23:53
+perlDreamer	(11:33:39) preaction: we'll take all comers, really. there's just a limit to how much "WebGUI is broken because it doesn't do what I want how I want" that some people (myself included) will put up with	23:54
+perlDreamer	And the other thing that gets our goat is people who ask questions that are answered in the online help, wiki or discussion board.	23:54
nuba	klnielsen: i think people here would freak out if someone asked "how do I add an article? Can someone login in my site and do it for me, pretty please with sugar on top ??"	23:54
klnielsen	I try not to be a poop-head, and to be very grateful, but I will admit to occasionally not knowing what to search for, terminology-wise. You guys(?) are all really patient, I think. Nothing like the happy-smiley-clubs that were the the early '90s *nix channels.	23:57
--- Day changed Thu Feb 14 2008
* perlDreamer tries not to feel old with that comment...		00:00
nuba	heh	00:00
+perlDreamer	... and fails	00:00
@preaction	yeah. those *nix channels still exist, on this network even. #openBSD is my favorite help channel to hang out in	00:00
@preaction	they don't take any question that's in any manual or on google	00:01
+perlDreamer	maybe we could train a bot to do that for us	00:01
+perlDreamer	GueyOfSteel: show lazyUser Editing Templates wiki	00:01
GooeyOfSteel	lazyUser: http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/templates-add/edit	00:04
nuba	what the.. ?! GooeyOfSteel its A-L-I-V-E !!!	00:04
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nuba	guess that scared the CIA bot	00:05
@preaction	sweet	00:05
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wgGuest80	hello	00:06
nuba	searching the wiki could return many hits	00:07
nuba	if GooeyOfSteel posts a list here people will start complaining	00:07
nuba	maybe just feeding perlbot with a few wiki-related factoids would be good enough	00:08
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+perlDreamer	I hope you're not here to hunt me down for egregious abuse of the American language	00:19
@preaction	oh noes!	00:19
bopbop	no fears	00:19
bopbop	just popping in to say hello	00:19
+perlDreamer	How's the youngest McCombs?	00:20
bopbop	she's great! running the house already	00:20
klnielsen	preaction: those channels can be helpful if you are a god... (*nix)	00:30
klnielsen	and perlDreamer - I am sure I have you beat, age-wise. I am the old woman at work here... and the only woman on my floor	00:31
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BartJol	perldreamer, have you already seen my new gadget?	00:36
BartJol	rizen calls it nasty	00:36
+perlDreamer	BartJol: gadget?	00:37
BartJol	yes	00:37
BartJol	a gooey thing	00:38
+perlDreamer	Clue me in, dude	00:38
BartJol	http://bart.procolix.com/presentatie-webgui-borrel-20080214/andere-toekomst/vragen	00:38
BartJol	have to mail it to Sarah	00:38
BartJol	to convince JT	00:39
+perlDreamer	I agree, it's nasty	00:39
+perlDreamer	It's like the complement of the Face Hugger from Aliens	00:39
BartJol	but a bit funny though?	00:39
* perlDreamer is very conservative		00:39
+perlDreamer	but yes	00:39
BartJol	not quite your style maybe	00:40
+perlDreamer	No	00:40
BartJol	:)	00:40
klnielsen	It's funny :D	00:40
klnielsen	well drawn, tho... did you do the art?	00:40
BartJol	well, just downloaded the male figure and put the underwear on	00:41
BartJol	I hope not to dissapoint you to much Perldreamer	00:41
+perlDreamer	Oh no	00:41
BartJol	maybe I've sick mind	00:41
+perlDreamer	I've been trying to see where to order one in size large :)	00:42
+perlDreamer	maybe he's one size fits all, with elastic arms	00:42
BartJol	well, we should make JT to order a batch	00:42
@rizen	um....	00:42
@rizen	JT has already used up his marketing budget for the year	00:42
@rizen	and his underwear budget too	00:42
+perlDreamer	Even special purple fuzzy Gooey underwear?	00:43
BartJol	you'll make a big progit out of it	00:43
+perlDreamer	Just wait 'til the customers roll in from Scale.	00:43
BartJol	sarah will like it on you, rizen	00:43
+perlDreamer	Does it come in female version, too?	00:44
BartJol	it will	00:44
+perlDreamer	Can you translate the Dutch on the slide?	00:45
BartJol	my design in any case	00:45
BartJol	yes	00:45
BartJol	Einde=end	00:45
BartJol	Wie weet... = Who knows, next year a valentine-gooey	00:46
BartJol	Vragen?= Questions	00:46
BartJol	?	00:46
BartJol	the rest is just standard template content	00:46
BartJol	not really interesting	00:47
BartJol	but I have to go, 'm really not social right now	00:48
BartJol	bye	00:48
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nuba	i sense there has been some splitting in the community lately...	00:57
+perlDreamer	nuba, per our conversation yesterday, it looks like the Help was pruned out a long time ago	01:01
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+perlDreamer	the only extra things that I've found are old, plug_in docs for Template help	01:02
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nuba	perlDreamer: ok, thanks for the heads up	01:02
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+perlDreamer	perl's hash slicing syntax sucks	01:14
@preaction	@hash{ qw( key key2 key3 ) }; # how so/	01:16
+perlDreamer	it doesn't look like a hash anymore	01:16
@preaction	it's not a hash, it's a hash slice	01:16
+perlDreamer	It's not symmetrical with array slicing. They still look like arrays, sigil wise	01:18
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5435 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Asset_SQLReport: remove some crufty files	01:18
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5436 /translations/ (55 files in 19 dirs): remove old, unused template plugin docs	01:18
+perlDreamer	Does anyone know what the NewMail macro is about?	01:24
@preaction	probably checking if a user has mail in their inbox	01:28
+perlDreamer	let's see if CIA-40 pukes on that one :)	01:29
+perlDreamer	nuba: I found the extra files, they were macro files. So all the macro docs without pure i18n labels or template info were removed.	01:32
+perlDreamer	and, due to a bug in my scanning script, I just found the extra entries, too	01:46
nuba	perlDreamer: ok. any idea of when these modifications are going to appear on i18n.webgui.org ?	01:49
+perlDreamer	Some have already been committed	01:49
+perlDreamer	The tag removal will happen as soon as I figure out how to script it.	01:49
+perlDreamer	The key revision is 5434	01:50
+perlDreamer	my first rev was 5435	01:50
+perlDreamer	hm	01:54
+perlDreamer	it will happen as soon as rizen or maybe Haarg does an svn update for the i18n server	01:54
+perlDreamer	so for now, all the old stuff is up there	01:54
@rizen	it will happen when the new 7.5.2 release comes out	01:55
@rizen	the i18n server reads out of our /data/WebGUI folder	01:55
+perlDreamer	okay	01:56
+perlDreamer	I was wondering, since the polish translation still exists (as opposed to Polish)	01:56
nuba	ok	01:56
@rizen	god damn it	01:56
@rizen	i keep deleting it	01:56
@rizen	and someone keeps recreating it	01:56
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5437 /translations/ (640 files in 19 dirs): remove pruned i18n files for macros and removed Assets	01:56
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5438 /translations/ (4 files in 2 dirs): remove a few other misc files	01:56
+perlDreamer	so far i've cut out 10 MB of old, crufty i18n	01:57
+perlDreamer	now there's only 1900 out of date entries in valid files to cut out	01:57
nuba	what will happen if I "Commit to SVN" now ?	01:58
nuba	create bogus entries again?	01:58
+perlDreamer	possibly, but don't worry about it	01:58
@rizen	commit to svn just stores the translation in svn	01:58
@rizen	in case someone decides to deface it	01:58
@rizen	that way we can roll back	01:58
+perlDreamer	but the changes I've been making need to be merged back into the "master" copy	01:59
nuba	but how about merging the changes in i18n.webgui.org with ones commited directly to the repo	01:59
nuba	yeah	01:59
* perlDreamer suspects he just signed up for that job :/		01:59
nuba	arent both commiting to https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/browse/translations/ ?	02:00
nuba	looks like that to me	02:00
+perlDreamer	yup	02:00
nuba	Last Change: jt: update_from_translation_server	02:00
nuba	everywhere	02:00
@rizen	if pd has done changes in svn directly	02:01
@rizen	and you do a commit to svn	02:01
@rizen	it will do an update automaticallly	02:01
+perlDreamer	what if they conflict?	02:02
+perlDreamer	I just tried committing the Spanish translation, and it looks okay	02:03
@rizen	if they conflict then we have a problem	02:04
@rizen	and i have to resolve it manually	02:04
nuba	I guess I'll just export the translation tgz and timestamp it after work sessions...	02:05
nuba	rizen: is /tools/translationserver.cgi all I need to run a translation server locally?	02:06
@rizen	yes, but you should not do that	02:07
+perlDreamer	nuba: one other thing to keep in mind is that the Help files which point to the i18n don't exist anymore, either.	02:07
+perlDreamer	so that i18n is essentially orphaned	02:07
@rizen	having the translations out on a central server is motivational therapy for those looking to update their translations	02:07
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@rizen	the more we have the more motivational therapy	02:08
nuba	thats true, man. it really feelt good seeing finnish and french going up too, as I was updating BrazilianPortuguese	02:08
nuba	but then I would be able to translate HEAD, not the lastest release running on plainblack.com	02:09
nuba	thats motivational too	02:09
+perlDreamer	the i18n server is HEAD	02:09
@rizen	plainblack.com is at most 1 week behind head	02:09
@rizen	i18n is not head	02:09
+perlDreamer	no?	02:09
@rizen	i18n = plainblack.com	02:09
+perlDreamer	Oh, yeah.	02:10
+perlDreamer	You're right	02:10
+perlDreamer	it pulls from /data/WebGUI	02:10
+perlDreamer	on my system, that is HEAD :)	02:10
nuba	same here	02:10
@rizen	tomorrow Haarg will release 7.5.2 and then i18n will be up to head	02:11
nuba	ok. I wont touch i18n before that and we'll then be sure there are no conflicts	02:12
+perlDreamer	rizen: translationserver bugs get logged to the bug tracker?	02:12
nuba	i wasnt planning to, anyway. thats something im doing on the weekends	02:12
@rizen	yup	02:12
nuba	rizen: BTW soon there will be no need to differentiate Brazilian Portuguese and Portuguese	02:19
@rizen	oh yeah?	02:19
@rizen	why is that?	02:19
nuba	theres a orthographic reform treaty which has been signed by almost all portuguese speaking countries	02:19
@rizen	aren't there only 2 portuguese speaking countries?	02:20
nuba	heh, no.	02:20
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@rizen	sorry for my ignorance	02:20
nuba	Spoken in: Angola, Brazil, Cape Verde, East Timor, Guinea Bissau, Chinese S.A.R. of Macau, Mozambique, Portugal and S�o Tom� and Pr�ncipe.	02:20
nuba	from wikipedia	02:20
MsGeek	Hi, I have a couple of Gooey wallpapers for you guys.	02:20
MsGeek	Where do I email them to?	02:21
@rizen	there's a site to post them to	02:21
@rizen	let me get you the url	02:21
MsGeek	They are based on a pic I took at SCALE 6x	02:21
@rizen	http://www.webgui.org/wg/promote/wallpapers	02:21
@rizen	just log in	02:21
MsGeek	Yes, but there's nowhere to upload.	02:21
@rizen	and then you'll see an option to post	02:21
MsGeek	Ah.	02:21
MsGeek	brb	02:21
nuba	rizen: having Brazilian Portuguese up to date gives WebGUI a great coverage in south america, plus some of africa	02:23
nuba	rizen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_language#Geographic_distribution	02:23
@rizen	i know. if we had spanish too we'd have prettymuch all of south america covered	02:24
nuba	SA is not like europe, where there's a different language in every town ;)	02:24
@rizen	and if we had french covered...that would give us even more of africa	02:24
nuba	with portuguese+spanish, you cant barely notice the amount you wouldn't cover in SA and Central America too	02:25
nuba	can barely*	02:25
MsGeek	Alright, I'm in.	02:25
nuba	a couple of tiny countries in the Amazon rainfores area	02:25
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5439 /tools/pushrelease.pl: beta vs stable	02:27
@rizen	that's a lot of gooeys	02:30
@rizen	Thanks MsGeek	02:31
MsGeek	Yes, there is.	02:31
@rizen	did you get your own gooey at the show?	02:31
MsGeek	And there is now an even more impressive version for widescreen.	02:31
MsGeek	Yes, I did.	02:31
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MsGeek	Once I find one of those suction cup hook thingies it's going to stick on my iMac.	02:31
@rizen	sweet	02:32
@rizen	had you heard of WebGUI or seen Gooey before Scale?	02:33
MsGeek	Originally I had an Ayanami Rei (Neon Genesis Evangelion) chibi plushie, but a friend of mine is more of a Gainax fan than I am and he was feeling a little depressed so I gave it to him.	02:33
MsGeek	No, wasn't aware of it.	02:33
@rizen	Well, we're glad to have you here now. Welcome.	02:33
MsGeek	I don't know if my webhost has WebGUI as an option for content management.	02:34
@rizen	if not, you should request it	02:34
nuba	you gave away your Ayanami Rei plush doll??	02:34
MsGeek	It was the Holidays. I was being generous.	02:35
* nuba watched EVA 1-25+3 movies 3x		02:35
MsGeek	And I figured I'd find another one eventually.	02:35
MsGeek	This machine I'm on is netnamed Eva00 because it's the same shade of indigo blue.	02:35
nuba	i had my EVA-enthusiast fad a few years ago	02:36
* MsGeek is looking forward to You Are (Not) Alone when it comes out.		02:36
metanil	if i want to add a new template variable in an asset, then will $self->set("templatename","value"); will work.. if it, then which method should i write this code	02:37
metanil	?	02:37
MsGeek	Anyway, lemme look at what my host offers on Fantastico and get back to you.	02:37
@rizen	ok...well thanks for the submission	02:37
@rizen	oh, and if you have any other photos of our booth you'd like to share	02:38
@rizen	post them here: http://www.webgui.org/webgui/campaigns/gooey-on-the-go	02:38
MsGeek	They've got everything but your product.	02:41
@rizen	they probably just haven't been properly introduced to it	02:41
@rizen	=)	02:41
MsGeek	Drupal Geeklog Joomla Mambo Open Source PHP-Nuke phpWCMS phpWebSite Post-Nuke Siteframe TYPO3 Xoops	02:43
MsGeek	That's the list.	02:43
@rizen	all php stuff	02:43
@rizen	maybe that's why	02:43
@rizen	maybe they are a php only hoster	02:43
MsGeek	Yeah, they're big on LAMP there.	02:44
@rizen	we're lamp to	02:44
MsGeek	So, oh well.	02:44
@rizen	where P = Perl	02:44
MsGeek	Ah.	02:44
MsGeek	Maybe they aren't Perl fans.	02:45
MsGeek	One thing for sure, I'd never be crazy enough to run a Nuke site, either PHP-Nuke or Post-Nuke.	02:46
MsGeek	I did that...once.	02:46
@rizen	they get hacked every 3rd second	02:46
MsGeek	Yep!	02:46
MsGeek	Easy enough to hack even for a crapflooder idiot with only two brain cells to rub together.	02:47
@rizen	Well MsGeek...even if you can't use WebGUI at your hoster, welcome to our community. We're glad to have you here.	02:47
MsGeek	Anyway, good talking to you, and I'm glad you liked my pics.	02:48
MsGeek	Take care all...	02:48
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@rizen	that's one...now we just need the 700 other people we talked to to come on over	02:48
@rizen	=)	02:48
nuba	thats a 0.14% conversion rate until now	02:51
nuba	from booth visitor to irc visitor	02:51
nuba	you	02:52
nuba	you're doing well, considering the came AND contributed	02:52
nuba	he*	02:52
@rizen	yeah	02:52
@rizen	that's amazing	02:52
@rizen	oh btw	02:52
@rizen	you guys may be interested to know that the PB staff now has a blog	02:52
@rizen	http://www.plainblack.com/pr/staff/blog	02:52
@rizen	they're prettying it up	02:53
@rizen	but it's already got a number of posts	02:53
nuba	Can they freely speak there? Workflow is Commit With Approval? ;)	02:53
@rizen	they can speak freely there	02:54
@rizen	except about ongoing client projects	02:54
@rizen	cuz we could be sued for that	02:54
@rizen	oh and they can't say anything bad about any client, ongoing project or not	02:55
@rizen	other than that, they can say what they want	02:55
nuba	fair enough	02:55
nuba	what about visitors commenting and not following these guidelines	02:56
@rizen	visitors don't know anything about our clients or client projects	02:57
@rizen	so they couldn't possibly comment on them	02:57
nuba	rizen: FYI http://www.plainblack.com/pr/products-and-services isnt listing these /news/news/webgui-vps	03:01
@rizen	thanks i'll have someone fix it	03:02
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nuba	'nite guys, off to bed	03:22
perlmonkey2	http://www.plainblack.com/intranet/blog/blog.rss formatting is broke, I see wallOfText	04:09
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ryuu_ro	hi guys, in a navigation template I'm doing something like this <tmpl_if page.ownerUserId="3"> FOO </tmpl_if>	11:27
ryuu_ro	but then i get a syntax error	11:28
ryuu_ro	can't i use page.ownerUserId in this way?	11:28
BartJol	and if you make it <tmpl_if <tmpl_var ownerUserId>="3">?	12:07
ryuu_ro	give me a sec	12:09
ryuu_ro	nope	12:12
BartJol	too bad	12:12
ryuu_ro	replaced the dot with an underscore, that' too is not the solution	12:13
BartJol	ryuu_ro , besides the docs I just gave you, I have some more, you can come and check them, if needed	12:32
ryuu_ro	ok, tnx	12:32
ryuu_ro	i gonna check the docs first	12:32
ryuu_ro	then we'll have lunch :)	12:32
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Radix__	what template engine are you using ryuu_ro ?	13:36
Radix__	html::template won't do that - you need either template toolkit or the extended html::template (I forget the name off the top of my head)	13:37
Radix__	html::template::expr	13:38
Radix__	you can use java to bolster the base template engine up a bit, but then you get a javascript requirement	13:38
Radix__	javascript I mean	13:39
ryuu_ro	ah tnx Radix, i think i will go back to Template Toolkit then	13:54
ryuu_ro	on the other hand, i'm using yui for the menu so javascript is already required	13:55
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BartJol	Hi Radix	14:28
BartJol	do you know if it harms security if a value, given with a macro can be set to anything?	14:29
BartJol	default is zero, any other value effectively means 1	14:29
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BartJol	there is not much happening with the value, just a test whether a calculation should be made or not	14:32
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Radix__	depends how it's used I guess, probably not	15:55
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SDuensin	Good morning.	16:04
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wgGuest62	hello	16:05
ryuu_ro	morning	16:06
wgGuest62	about one week ago i did a upgrade of my web sites that were in 7.3.22 to the latest version of webgui. in that ocassion i had an error, so i had to return to 7.3.22 again	16:07
wgGuest62	yesterday i tried to do the same but when the upgrade script start, i obtain some errors	16:08
wgGuest62	you can see the errors at http://webgui.pastebin.com/m27cd57da	16:10
wgGuest62	if someone can help me, thanks in advance	16:13
perlmonkey2	wgGuest62: That looks kind of serious. Like an schema upgrade failed half way through.	16:20
wgGuest62	i don't know what to do	16:23
wgGuest62	i am comparing the mysql databases of two versions 7.3.22 vs 7.4.15	16:27
wgGuest62	in 7.3.22 in the colaboration table does not exist the column threadApprovalWorkflow	16:28
wgGuest62	the upgrade from 7.3.22 to 7.4.0 will add the column?	16:29
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wgGuest62	hello	17:05
wgGuest62	when i run spectre i obtain the next error 'jsonToObj' will be obsoleted. Please use 'from_json' instead. at ../lib/WebGUI/Config.pm line 342	17:05
wgGuest62	i don't how to fix it?	17:06
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wgGuest37	hello	17:09
wgGuest37	i can to use the module VUser::Google::ProvisioningAPI in a macro?	17:09
wgGuest62	hello	17:19
wgGuest62	help me again	17:19
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wgGuest37	hi	17:29
wgGuest62	hi	17:29
wgGuest37	how are you?	17:29
wgGuest62	how are you, too	17:31
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perlmonkey2	wgGuest62: still there?	17:43
perlmonkey2	wgGuest62: if someone is in irc and you want their attention, say their name. Most irc clients will alert the person that their name was said.	17:43
perlmonkey2	wgGuest62: Are you running WG from source or the WRE (I'm guessing source).	17:44
perlmonkey2	if source, then open the cpan shell by 'cpan' then type 'force install Config::JSON'	17:44
perlmonkey2	or actually I think the cpan bug is fixed and you can just type 'cpan -i Config::JSON' on the command line.	17:44
wgGuest62	i am running from source	17:44
wgGuest62	i have installed config::json without any problems	17:45
wgGuest62	i was upgrading from 73.22 to 7.4	17:46
wgGuest62	in 7.3.22 i don't have installed Config::JSON, so to do the upgrade, i installed it	17:47
wgGuest62	but i obtained some errors in the upgrade, i have to ruturned to 7.3.22	17:48
wgGuest62	7.3.22 don't need Config::JSON, so would have some problem if it is installed?	17:49
wgGuest62	perlmonkey2, do you know what can i do?	17:52
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ckotil	http://snare.grnoc.iu.edu/free.sub.png	17:54
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ckotil	thats to penn station btw.	17:59
perlmonkey2	wgGuest62: You definetely need Config::JSON	18:12
perlmonkey2	and having the most up to date version will break your older webgui install.	18:12
perlmonkey2	But the point is to upgrade webgui, right?	18:12
perlmonkey2	the database error is the real trouble. your upgrade script is trying to create a table that already exists and then erroring out. I sure hope you followed guidelines and created a full database backup before starting to upgrade.	18:13
perlmonkey2	But perhaps you can manually delete the table	18:14
perlmonkey2	but probably best of all, I hear plainblack has an excellent support service, very reasonably priced.	18:14
perlmonkey2	Whom better to resolve Webgui issues than the masterminds behind webgui?	18:15
wgGuest37	hello	18:17
wgGuest37	i have a macro and when i run, webgui.log show me this: ERROR - www.prueba.com.conf - WebGUI::Session::ErrorHandler::error[184] - Could not run on WebGUI::Macro::Prueba because it does not exist at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Macro.pm line 140, what i must do?	18:17
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br4k3r	hey all	19:24
br4k3r	got a problem with my crumbtrail	19:24
+perlDreamer	yo, br4k4r	19:24
+perlDreamer	birds?	19:24
+perlDreamer	or malignant fairy demons bent on stopping you from reaching the city to save the baby?	19:25
br4k3r	well	19:25
br4k3r	heres how it's set up	19:25
br4k3r	Start Point: relative to current url	19:26
br4k3r	start point ./ (0)	19:26
br4k3r	ancestor end point ../ (-1)	19:26
br4k3r	include ancestors, self, decendands, pedigree	19:26
br4k3r	decendant end point is ./a/ (+1)	19:26
br4k3r	when i click on a sub link (example Home > About Us)	19:27
br4k3r	it displays the trail properly... when i go back to the home it displays Home > About Us > Links > Contact Us > Calendar	19:27
+perlDreamer	two questions:	19:28
+perlDreamer	1) what version of wG are you using?	19:28
+perlDreamer	2) Can you duplicate this on the demo site?	19:28
br4k3r	I'm using wG 7.4.22	19:30
br4k3r	i am not running a demo site	19:31
br4k3r	as a side note, I created my own theme...	19:31
+perlDreamer	I understand that, but it's always good to check if it's due to your templating, or due to the core asset.	19:31
+perlDreamer	So would you please try to duplicate it on the demo site?	19:31
br4k3r	will do... brb	19:31
+perlDreamer	Need some bash scripting help	19:32
@preaction	you've got questions, we've got answers!	19:33
+perlDreamer	How do I translate this to bash?	19:33
+perlDreamer	http://webgui.pastebin.com/m59b52df4	19:33
+perlDreamer	and as a 1-liner?	19:33
@preaction	svn revert -r .	19:35
@preaction	sorry, -R	19:35
+perlDreamer	wow	19:36
+perlDreamer	I didn't know you could do svn in bash :)	19:36
@preaction	of course	19:36
@preaction	bash has access to any program on your PATH	19:36
+perlDreamer	There's only 2 things stopping me from switching from tcsh to bash	19:37
@preaction	if you want to pass in a folder to revert, it'd be more like svn revert -R $1	19:37
+perlDreamer	1) writing little for scripts	19:37
+perlDreamer	2) setting file complete to 1 tab	19:37
@preaction	for file in *	19:39
+perlDreamer	Don't you need a "do" in there someplace?	19:40
@preaction	do; cd $file; svn revert $file; cd ..; done	19:40
@preaction	; means a line-break, since i'm lazy	19:40
+perlDreamer	k	19:40
@preaction	http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/index.html <- advanced bash-scripting guide. quickly gets to the heart of things	19:41
+perlDreamer	thanks, preaction	19:42
+perlDreamer	bug --	19:50
@apeiron	apply ls *	19:51
@apeiron	apply > all shell for loops	19:51
@apeiron	Downside: BSD-only	19:51
+perlDreamer	I'm pretty linux centric nowadays	19:52
+perlDreamer	they finally moved us off Solaris at $dayJob to RHEL4	19:52
+perlDreamer	CIA-40 is going to puke on that commit, too	19:53
nuba	some nice loops here too http://zsh.sunsite.dk/Doc/Release/zsh_5.html#SEC22	19:53
+perlDreamer	is zsh syntax compatible with bash?	19:53
nuba	I dont think so	19:54
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nuba	I started using bash lately more because of the WRE	19:56
ckotil	even if you put zsh in the hash bang?	19:56
nuba	was getting random errors here and there, and all smoother with bash	19:56
+perlDreamer	that's what I'm thinking, too	19:57
ckotil	yeah, bash rocks.	19:57
ckotil	;)	19:57
nuba	well I could have tried to find out what was wrong, but I was really busy so i got bash from /usr/ports and moved on to other things	19:59
nuba	zsh completion for programm's switches really rocks	20:00
ckotil	ohh, that sounds cool.	20:00
@khenn	hey, who did the fancy graphics for the staff blog?	20:06
@khenn	was that steve?	20:06
@khenn	looks cool	20:06
@preaction	yeah, he asked me about it last night	20:07
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+perlDreamer	meatbop rocks	20:13
@preaction	indeed	20:14
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5440 /translations/ (330 files in 16 dirs): brought i18n files up to date with HEAD, removing old entries	20:22
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@preaction	any idea why the ^User("field"); macro would return undef even if I clear the cache and the name of the field is right?	20:58
@preaction	nm, must be a cache issue. i tried on a user who's never logged in before and it works	21:00
@preaction	the user cache must be really difficult to clear out	21:00
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ckotil	its really difficult to make a .swf clickable as a link. i think a good rfe would be implement a click through url into the file asset for swf's	21:51
@rizen	it's not hard to do it at all	21:52
ckotil	im able to make my swf clickable in safari and ff (mac only) every other browser will not allow it.	21:52
ckotil	oh? i placed an invisible div over my swf and wrapped that in an a tag	21:52
@rizen	you're thinking too hard	21:52
ckotil	<a href=""><object></object></a> doesnt work.	21:53
ckotil	please tell me your secret	21:53
@rizen	maybe i'm not understanding what you want to do	21:53
@rizen	oh	21:53
@rizen	wait now i get it	21:53
@rizen	you actually want the movie to become a link	21:53
ckotil	correct. done only in html	21:54
@rizen	not that you want to link to the movie	21:54
@rizen	ok	21:54
ckotil	yes.	21:54
@rizen	yeah, that doesn't work in ie	21:54
ckotil	youtube does it so gracefully.	21:54
@rizen	you actually have to build that url into the movie itself	21:54
ckotil	yah, thats pry how they do it.	21:54
@rizen	sorry for the confusion there	21:54
ckotil	our new network weathermap tool is flash based.	21:54
ckotil	no prob. my heart only skipped a couple beats	21:55
ckotil	http://atlas.grnoc.iu.edu/I2.html	21:55
ckotil	and we use the same swf for a small 'mini-map' but neevr hard coded a click through url into the swf.	21:55
ckotil	thats on the feature request list now tho.	21:55
ckotil	http://noc.nlr.net/ mini versions.	21:56
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CIA-40	WebGUI: graham * r5441 /WebGUI/docs/ (2 files in 2 dirs): preparing for 7.5.2 release	23:19
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+perlDreamer	nuba: Are you awake?	23:57
nuba	kinda	23:58
nuba	you took the red pill too?	23:58
+perlDreamer	In portugese, are the words for button (like clothing) and button (like web page) the same?	23:58
nuba	nope	23:58
nuba	actually yes	23:58
nuba	botao applies to both	23:58
nuba	bot�o	23:59
nuba	with a tilde over tje a	23:59
nuba	the*	23:59
--- Day changed Fri Feb 15 2008
+perlDreamer	thanks	00:01
+perlDreamer	I'm filling in some of the Spanish translation	00:01
perlmonkey2	when did 8GB flash drives drop to $30?	00:02
nuba	in spanish is boton and plural botones	00:03
+perlDreamer	Yes	00:03
+perlDreamer	Is it better to use UTF-8 characters for accents on web pages, or HTML encodings?	00:03
nuba	or bot�n with a � over the second o	00:03
+perlDreamer	never mind, the editor auto translates to encodings	00:04
@apeiron	perlbot, utf8 ?	00:04
perlbot	? U+FFFD "REPLACEMENT CHARACTER", category: "Specials", utf8 bytes: EF BF BD	00:04
nuba	perlDreamer: if the page encoding is UTF-8, using UTF-8 chars is great	00:04
nuba	why not?	00:04
@apeiron	� perhaps?	00:04
@apeiron	perlbot, utf8 �	00:04
perlbot	� U+00E3 "LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH TILDE", category: "Latin-1 Supplement", utf8 bytes: C3 A3, upper-case: U+00C3 (�)	00:04
@apeiron	nuba, Your IRC client isn't set to use UTF8, is it?	00:05
nuba	nope	00:06
nuba	term_charset = US-ASCII in my irssi	00:06
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5442 /releases/WebGUI_7.5.2-beta: Release 7.5.2-beta	00:09
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5443 /tools/translationserver.cgi: fix a typo so that we can find out why the Polish translation does not work	00:09
CIA-40	WebGUI: graham * r5444 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): preparing for 7.5.3 dev	00:09
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spersyn	hello	00:40
+perlDreamer	howdy	00:40
+perlDreamer	Do you have a WebGUI question?	00:40
spersyn	yep: see log at http://webgui.pastebin.com/d3498b7f9	00:42
+perlDreamer	what version of WebGUI are you running?	00:43
spersyn	spectre does not start. says: cann't connect to 127.0.0.1: 32133	00:43
+perlDreamer	What version of WebGUI are you running, and did you recently upgrade?	00:44
spersyn	just installed wre 0.8.1 with auto;ated install	00:44
spersyn	automated	00:44
spersyn	so should be latest stable release	00:44
spersyn	7.5	00:44
+perlDreamer	7.5 is not the latest stable release, it's beta	00:44
+perlDreamer	It sounds like you're running an old version of JSON	00:45
+perlDreamer	what happens if you go to /data/WebGUI/sbin	00:45
spersyn	tryint to run tesenvironment.pl: says JSON version is 1.x, should be 2.y	00:45
+perlDreamer	Yeah, you need to upgrade.	00:45
spersyn	yes but here is the upgrade result using testenvironment.pl	00:46
spersyn	http://webgui.pastebin.com/d7e29ebf9	00:46
spersyn	doesn't want to	00:47
+perlDreamer	you may have to install it manually	00:47
+perlDreamer	perl -MCPAN -e shell	00:47
+perlDreamer	install JSON	00:47
spersyn	aargg same output if manually done (Writing Makefile for JSON	00:49
spersyn	-- NOT OK	00:49
spersyn	)	00:49
spersyn	what is the equivqlent of make clean in coan cli?	00:50
spersyn	cpan cli?	00:50
+perlDreamer	I don't think there is one	00:50
+perlDreamer	Which OS are you using?	00:50
spersyn	mandriva (redhat alike)	00:50
spersyn	2008 version	00:50
spersyn	is there another way, like download the JSON module, and build it manually?	00:52
+perlDreamer	yes	00:52
+perlDreamer	Go to search.cpan.org	00:52
nuba	GooeyOfSteel: check www.plainblack.com	00:52
+perlDreamer	search for JSON	00:52
GooeyOfSteel	www.plainblack.com Server: Apache/2.0 \| Generator: WebGUI 7.5.2	00:52
+perlDreamer	download it	00:52
+perlDreamer	unpack the file	00:52
+perlDreamer	cd into the distribution area	00:52
+perlDreamer	type perl Makefile.PL	00:52
@apeiron	I've seen that some, possibly lots, of Linux distributions like to ship without things like make installed, for some unfathomable reason.	00:52
+perlDreamer	ew	00:53
spersyn	ok thanks I'll try this way, and 'll let you know	00:53
+perlDreamer	but that shouldn't prevent you from running perl Makefile.PL, would it?	00:53
@apeiron	perlDreamer, No, just the next command'll b0rk. :)	00:53
+perlDreamer	yeah, this guy can't even build the Makefile	00:53
nuba	apeiron: leaving compiling/debugging tools in the system is by some considered to increase insecurity, as these tools would be available to any would-be intruders.	00:54
@apeiron	nuba, Tell that to the BSD systems that've been doing it since before Linux existed.	00:54
+perlDreamer	anyone know how to do a variable width, negative look-behind assertion in a regex?	00:54
@apeiron	nuba, Like... say... OpenBSD. :)	00:54
nuba	apeiron: i just wanted to shed some light on the "for some unfathomable reason."	00:55
nuba	im not a slim-as-hell enthusiast, but I do endorse the practice of installing barely the necessary in a server	00:55
nuba	so more like slim-as-needed	00:56
nuba	or too slim and you make the sysadmin's job a PITA	00:56
spersyn	mandriva is distribution let's say for novices in linux. that explains why tehy restrict the possibilities, I assume.. :)	00:57
nuba	well i think a distro for novices should come with the usual tools ready for use	01:00
nuba	to ease the learning curve of these novices	01:00
nuba	spersyn: you need to be a bit beyond the novice level to know exactly what tools you need to install in a server to accompllish a given task	01:01
spersyn	yes. i'm a little bit more than novice. but just saw that default install of mandriva doesn't even include the make package	01:03
+perlDreamer	you'll need make eventually	01:03
+perlDreamer	and gcc	01:03
+perlDreamer	and a whole raft of other things	01:03
+perlDreamer	check out the install instructions and check your package list	01:04
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spersyn	k. I've upgraded JSON and Config::JSON	01:20
spersyn	let's test by restarting spectre now...	01:21
spersyn	it works :)	01:22
spersyn	thanks very ;uch for the help. I had to install the perl modules manually at the end	01:24
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+perlDreamer	Is colon ':', a valid URL type character?	01:49
+perlDreamer	In other words, could I have http://mysite.com/left:right/foo as a valid URL?	01:49
@rizen	: is invalid	01:52
+perlDreamer	cool. Thanks!	01:52
+perlDreamer	bug--	02:06
metanil	does the the template variable ownerUserId return the owner of the file?	02:08
+perlDreamer	ownerUserId is whoever owns that Asset.	02:08
+perlDreamer	regardless of the kind of asset	02:08
metanil	i upload a file with different user.. but its showing same Id	02:08
metanil	then it applies for file asset as well.	02:09
+perlDreamer	yes, although what template are you using?	02:09
metanil	"File Folder"	02:10
+perlDreamer	hm	02:10
+perlDreamer	let me check	02:10
metanil	there is folder ..and within it there are files.	02:10
+perlDreamer	ownerUserId does not have a template variable for the owner of all the files	02:10
+perlDreamer	only for the folder itself	02:10
+perlDreamer	I mean, Folder does not have a template variable for the owner of the files	02:11
metanil	oh! that means it is now showing the owner of folder not an individual file.	02:11
+perlDreamer	Yes	02:11
+perlDreamer	Check out the file_loop variables in the folder template	02:11
metanil	.. what if i want to show ownerid for file.	02:11
metanil	within a folder	02:11
+perlDreamer	You'll have to change the folder asset	02:11
metanil	in method view?	02:12
+perlDreamer	whereever the template variables are defined	02:12
metanil	within this -> foreach my $child (@{$children}) {	02:12
+perlDreamer	view is a good place to start looking	02:12
metanil	like this http://webgui.pastebin.com/d622a41c6 ?	02:13
+perlDreamer	is getOwnerUserName a valid WebGUI Asset method call?	02:14
+perlDreamer	never seen that one	02:14
metanil	no no.. :D .. i added it	02:14
+perlDreamer	Did you add it to Asset, or to Folder or to File?	02:14
metanil	this is from Asset/Wobject/Folder.pm	02:15
+perlDreamer	well, unless it's available from all of the File Assets (File, Image, ZipArchive), etc. that won't work	02:15
+perlDreamer	wrong inheritance structure	02:15
metanil	and $child->getOwnerUserName will call WebGUI::Asset::File	02:16
metanil	any hints?	02:16
metanil	But i think its going to each files within that loop.. so calling ownerId would definitely return the owner of that file.. (thats what i had guessed)	02:18
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5445 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fix double and single slash handling in URLs, whether using SSL or not. Add tests to check	02:19
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5446 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt: put fix in correct version	02:19
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5447 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): forward port slash handling fix from 7.4 branch	02:20
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metanil	so any other good approaches?	02:32
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metanil	i see 'stateChangedBy' in asset table .. what will it refers?	02:58
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metanil	i can see 'stateChangedBy' in asset table in database .. what will it refers? is it mean by last updated by??	03:25
@rizen	stateChangedBy is the userId of the user the published it or put it in the trash or cut it to the clipboard	03:28
metanil	oh!! .. so if i edit some asset where will it be logged?	03:29
metanil	there is only createdby field in that table.	03:30
@rizen	look in assetData	03:31
@rizen	that contains the other info you're looking for	03:31
metanil	thnx.. got it.	03:32
metanil	rizen, thanks i got it working..	03:51
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CIA-40	WebGUI: graham * r5448 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Auth.pm): Reject HTML and macros in usernames	09:38
CIA-40	WebGUI: graham * r5449 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (3 files in 3 dirs): preparing for 7.4.24 release	09:38
CIA-40	WebGUI: graham * r5450 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/lib/WebGUI/ (i18n/English/WebGUI.pm Auth.pm): fix HTML and macros rejection for usernames	09:38
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CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5451 /releases/WebGUI_7.4.24-stable: Release 7.4.24-stable	13:19
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wgGuest31	hello	16:15
BartJol	hi	16:15
BartJol	what's up?	16:16
wgGuest31	i have an error with spectre	16:18
wgGuest31	i upgraded from 7.3.22 to 7.4.21	16:18
BartJol	in one step?	16:18
wgGuest31	the error is the next	16:18
BartJol	yes?	16:20
wgGuest31	http://webgui.pastebin.com/m3f6d8edf	16:20
wgGuest31	i thinks i for the json's version	16:21
ryuu_ro_	wgGuest31: do you run WRE?	16:22
BartJol	ryuu can help you better on this one	16:22
wgGuest31	no, i run from source	16:22
ryuu_ro_	ok, did you run testEnvironment before you upgraded?	16:25
wgGuest31	yes	16:25
ryuu_ro_	no errors came up?	16:25
wgGuest31	no	16:25
ryuu_ro_	good	16:25
wgGuest31	i have two servers in the same version	16:26
wgGuest31	i have been comparing the json's version	16:27
wgGuest31	and in one fo them i don't have problems and i have json 1.00 and config::json is 1.1.1	16:28
wgGuest31	in the server that i have this problem i have json 2.06 and config::json 1.1.4	16:28
ryuu_ro_	in the gotcha file there is something mentioned about force installinng config::json 1.1.0 before upgrading	16:29
ryuu_ro_	but i'm not sure for which version	16:29
wgGuest31	but the problem is that i have config::json 1.1.4 installed	16:30
wgGuest31	how can uninstall this module to install again?	16:30
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wgGuest31	in the gotcha.txt from version 7.4.21 i found, You must upgrade to Config::JSON 1.1.0 or higher prior to upgrading.	16:32
ryuu_ro_	SynQ had a problem with config::Json 1.1.4 too, but he's not online now	16:33
ryuu_ro_	If you want to downgrade I quess you have to download the tar form cpan and manually install it	16:33
ryuu_ro_	not sure about this though	16:33
wgGuest31	is there a problem if i have both versions installed?	16:35
wgGuest31	or how can i remove the module?	16:35
@rizen	you can't remove it, you just have to install over it	16:36
@rizen	by downloading from cpan directly and then installing the old version	16:36
wgGuest31	ok	16:36
wgGuest31	i am going to do	16:36
wgGuest31	thanks	16:36
wgGuest31	rizen, i have installed old versions of json and config::json, but i continue with the same problem	17:12
CIA-40	WebGUI: graham * r5452 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Reject HTML and macros in usernames	17:12
wgGuest31	what do you think about upgrading from 7.4.21 to 7.4.22?	17:13
@rizen	why do you call me by name? i don't know what you're talking about. i wasn't here when you were discussing your problem.	17:13
@rizen	um...it's a good idea	17:14
wgGuest31	ok	17:14
wgGuest31	thanks	17:14
@rizen	you need to be on the latest version of JSON and COnfig::JSOn to do that though	17:16
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BartJol	perldreamer, Koen has filed his copy of your presentation in a huge pile of paper, cd's etc. And the pile has been badly indexed	18:30
+perlDreamer	BartJol, I'll email you a copy tonight when I get back to $home	18:30
+perlDreamer	Please PM me your email address	18:30
BartJol	great, you're my hero	18:30
@rizen	perlDreamer: branch/WebGUI_Commerce is the place to work	18:43
+perlDreamer	cool	18:43
+perlDreamer	when/how do we start writing tests?	18:44
BartJol	bye	18:45
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@rizen	we start now	18:45
@rizen	i'm setting up a mailing list for us	18:45
@rizen	or do you think we should just keep discussion on the dev mailing list?	18:45
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5453 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce: A place to put new commerce stuff until it's ready	18:46
@rizen	i just don't want a bunch of no-nothing opinionated bastards to interrupt our work	18:46
@rizen	i guess we could just ignore them	18:46
+perlDreamer	I'm pretty thick skinned these days	18:47
+perlDreamer	but an email list has the advantage of keeping a record of assignments and decisions	18:47
+perlDreamer	I think it's a good idea.	18:47
@rizen	let's just do it on the dev mailing list	18:47
@rizen	it doesn't get much traffic these days	18:47
@rizen	ok i threw out the first assignements on the dev mailing list	18:53
@rizen	pd	18:55
+perlDreamer	?	18:55
@rizen	the testing document you sent me doesn't even mention test::class	18:55
+perlDreamer	No, it's problematic right now.	18:55
@rizen	oh	18:55
+perlDreamer	It's the cause of that perl problem I told you about	18:55
@rizen	so i should stick with the old tests?	18:55
+perlDreamer	Yes.	18:56
@rizen	ok	18:56
+perlDreamer	It seems to work okay on MacOS, but Fedora/i386 (32 and 64 bit) and BSD don't work	18:56
+perlDreamer	rizen: I'm not seeing anything from the dev list.	19:01
+perlDreamer	Was spectre restarted yesterday after the upgrade?	19:01
@rizen	i just emailed it a couple minutes ago	19:01
@rizen	it's on a 5 minute cycle methinks	19:01
+perlDreamer	k	19:01
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5454 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/t/Shop: where the new commerce tests wil go	19:02
+perlDreamer	I have to go and play disk space cop. I'll be back in a little while	19:03
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dionak	hey guys. quick question on removing a site. i recently removed a few sites from our WG installation and ended up with cron jobs trying to run against sites/dbs that no longer existed. Is there an extra step I need to do to prevent this?	19:11
dionak	i'm getting ready to remove another...	19:11
+perlDreamer	Do you mean cron/cron jobs, or Spectre/Cron jobs?	19:12
dionak	are both created for a site when it's added?	19:13
+perlDreamer	added via the WRE?	19:13
dionak	yes, using the add site script.	19:13
dionak	i use the remove site script when taking them off	19:13
+perlDreamer	according to the WRE instructions on the wiki, the cron jobs have to be added manually	19:14
+perlDreamer	so I'd guess they have to be removed manually, too	19:14
+perlDreamer	but I'm not a WRE user, so do take that with a grain of salt	19:14
dionak	what about spectre? should i check to see if a spectre cron is running before removing?	19:14
@rizen	spectre just needs to be restarted after removing the site	19:19
@rizen	same with modperl	19:19
@rizen	and modproxy	19:19
dionak	that is the normal process. i'm just not sure how those processes were still in the system after removal but i'll see how this one goes.	19:20
@rizen	what processes are we talking about here? you didn't answer the question above whether you were talking about Spectre cron or unix cron.	19:21
dionak	i believe they were spectre because I recall seeing pb0000001 (or similar) in the webgui.log relating to the error	19:22
dionak	not sure about the # of 0's	19:22
dionak	is that hourly workflows?	19:23
dionak	is there going to be a presentation at the WUC on workflows? i don't use them often and could probably use a refresher...	19:26
@rizen	there was one last year	19:27
@rizen	won't be one this year	19:27
@rizen	the admin guide goes into workflows in quite a bit of detail	19:27
@rizen	i think you guys have a copy	19:27
dionak	ok, we have a copy of that..	19:28
@rizen	and there is more about workflows in the developers guide coming out in a couple months (i know that doesn't help you know)	19:28
dionak	ah, but it will. :)	19:28
dionak	i think i just need an understanding of system workflows and creating them.	19:28
dionak	for instance, we redeveloped our site under dev.knowmad.com and then I ported the db over to production. i still have some workflows running for RSS feeds that are looking at dev.knowmad.com.	19:29
dionak	still trying to find those....	19:29
dionak	anyways, thanks. i'll go read a bit..	19:33
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@rizen	perlDreamer just an fyi	20:15
@rizen	you introduced a bug at	20:15
@rizen	https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/diff/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Cron.pm?rev1=5356;rev2=5357	20:15
+perlDreamer	yes, I think Frank mentioned that last week	20:15
@rizen	that is fixed here: https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/diff/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Cron.pm?rev1=5454;rev2=5455	20:16
@rizen	the reason i bring i up is to see if there's something you see that i don't see	20:16
@rizen	you're checking for a hash ref on a string, cuz the text is still json	20:16
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+perlDreamer	That's based on a fix from the Commerce system which was incorrectly applied here in the Cron	20:17
@rizen	ok	20:17
@rizen	nevermind then	20:17
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5455 /WebGUI/ (lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Cron.pm docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt): faulty ref check	20:18
@rizen	anyway, that is why the emails from dev mailing list weren't going out	20:19
@rizen	or coming in	20:19
+perlDreamer	I thought that Frank fixed it last week after talking to me about it.	20:19
@rizen	looks like it was already fixed in the 7.4 branch	20:19
@rizen	but not head	20:19
+perlDreamer	that would explain it	20:19
@rizen	btw if you find flaws in my spec feel free to point them out	20:20
@rizen	i'm going to upload an open document version of it shortly	20:20
@rizen	cuz i found some flaws	20:20
+perlDreamer	Cool.	20:21
+perlDreamer	Googe doc, or OO.org?	20:21
@rizen	oo.org	20:21
@rizen	would you prefer google doc?	20:22
+perlDreamer	No. Just curious	20:22
nuba	btw Google Docs is HTML. you can switch from/to HTML editing mode there.	20:28
+perlDreamer	I'm going to ask Peter to help me with translating WebGUI into Spanish	20:28
nuba	cool	20:30
nuba	muy bueno	20:30
@rizen	nuba, how many languages do you speak?	20:31
+perlDreamer	He had a blast on the Wikipedia article	20:31
+perlDreamer	I hope this will be as good.	20:31
nuba	portuguese, english, lots of spanish, some french, some italian	20:32
@rizen	you are a god to me	20:33
nuba	you guys?	20:33
@rizen	my native language is garbled crap	20:34
@rizen	and i speak a little bit of english	20:34
nuba	lol	20:34
+perlDreamer	English, a little spanish, a little german, some phrases in vietnamese, perl, fortran, assembly	20:36
nuba	i think when you're not in a dominant country you have a strong motivation to learn other languages	20:36
@rizen	i think most americans are at a strong disadvantage for not speaking at least one additional language	20:36
@rizen	i know i am	20:36
+perlDreamer	You should learn English, then, to augment your garbled crap	20:37
@rizen	i've been trying to learn english, but it's hard	20:37
nuba	well im still learning english, you guys please let me know if you see me making any weird looking phrases	20:40
+perlDreamer	Si estara' una problema, nos le dicemos	20:41
+perlDreamer	First Commit. w00t!	20:41
nuba	perlDreamer: its si hay algun problema, te haremos saber.	20:44
+perlDreamer	"If this is some problem, we make you to know"	20:45
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+perlDreamer	I see.	20:45
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nuba	that means "if there is any problem, we`ll let you know"	20:45
+perlDreamer	Necesito practicar mas	20:46
nuba	correcto	20:46
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5456 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/t/Shop/Tax.t: add Tax tests for new and session method	20:50
+perlDreamer	rizen: I have a spec suggestion to make	21:04
@rizen	ok	21:04
+perlDreamer	I think we should have a version history page which lists changes in each release	21:04
+perlDreamer	either that, or have the doc itself under version control	21:04
+perlDreamer	that way you can quickly find the changes, rather than reading through everything each time	21:04
@rizen	we already link to the change long	21:04
@rizen	log	21:05
@rizen	on getwebgui.com	21:05
@rizen	what else are you looking for?	21:05
+perlDreamer	for the commerce spec	21:05
@rizen	oh	21:06
@rizen	but even if we versioned the doc you wouldn't be able to see what changed	21:06
@rizen	it would have to be text or html	21:06
+perlDreamer	true	21:06
+perlDreamer	and with text we'd lose the graphics	21:07
@rizen	which isn't ideal for the graphics and stuff that are in there	21:07
@rizen	text also isn't good for the tables	21:07
@rizen	we'd need to use html	21:07
+perlDreamer	but then the doc isn't flat	21:07
+perlDreamer	the graphics are stored outside	21:07
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5457 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Tax.pm t/Shop/Tax.t lib/WebGUI/Shop):	21:15
CIA-40	WebGUI: Fix a bad use test in Shop/Tax.t	21:15
CIA-40	WebGUI: Begin Tax.pm, using Class::InsideOut with a basic constructor and a session method.	21:15
nuba	Google Docs keeps track of every change in the doc, and when you choose to show a specific version it shows who did what.	21:25
nuba	let me just confirm it...	21:26
nuba	is there any pastebin-like tool for screenshots ?	21:28
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@rizen	flickr?	21:38
nuba	found these http://imagebin.org/ http://imagebin.ca/ and http://www.imagebin.eu/	21:48
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5458 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/t/Shop/Cart.t: base cart tests	21:48
@rizen	methinks you should add those to the irc page in the wiki	21:49
nuba	and the creator of imagebin.ca is working on has this project too http://voicebin.ca/	21:49
nuba	yeah I was already on my way to do that	21:50
nuba	but testing them first	21:50
nuba	all work great http://imagebin.org/14033 http://imagebin.ca/view/dk1Ua4ml.html http://www.imagebin.eu/pics/3c168b1f724c7fa24bb1a10bbb4fd874.jpg	21:53
-!- rizen is now known as rizenisaway		22:00
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5459 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (10 files in 2 dirs): per colin's request design docs are included in the repo	22:03
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: IRC - Edited on 2/15/2008 1:55 pm by nuba http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/irc	22:11
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: Getting Started With Development - Edited on 2/14/2008 7:00 am by knowmad http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/getting-started-with-development	22:11
GooeyOfSteel	Wiki: Override Core Modules - Created on 2/14/2008 7:00 am by knowmad http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/override-core-modules	22:11
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nuba	i disabled the the wiki watch feature yesterday by accident when adding the meta generator info to the bot	22:12
nuba	all up now	22:12
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wgGuest31	hello	22:44
wgGuest31	i have serious problem with spectre	22:46
wgGuest31	when i start it i have the next error 'jsonToObj' will be obsoleted. Please use 'from_json' instead. at /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8/Config/JSON.pm line 134	22:46
wgGuest31	i have 7.4.21 installed	22:47
wgGuest31	json again	22:47
wgGuest31	in that server i had installed json 2.6 and config::json 1.1.4	22:49
wgGuest31	comparing with another server in the same version i noticed that the json version is 1.0 and the config::json is 1.1.1	22:51
wgGuest31	and tried to install both old versions manually but the problem continues?	22:51
wgGuest31	what do you suggest me, upgrading to 7.3.24 would be the solution, or what else can i do?	22:53
@rizenisaway	upgrading to the latest 7.4.x version is your best bet	22:57
wgGuest31	ok	22:57
wgGuest31	i am going to do	22:57
wgGuest31	thanks again	22:58
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+perlDreamer	rizenisaway: if it's a big pain, then just leave the docs as opendoc. I don't think you can build tables in POD.	23:41
-!- rizenisaway is now known as rizen		23:45
@rizen	too late	23:45
+perlDreamer	Got time for some tax talk?	23:46
nuba	you could keep the extracted open office file in svn	23:46
nuba	its xml	23:46
nuba	actually a bunch of xmls	23:46
nuba	and stuff	23:46
nuba	but then you can check out a version, compress, and open on OO	23:47
+perlDreamer	I'm thinking that the value combination of field and value needs to be unique.	23:47
+perlDreamer	so that you can't have state=WI more than once	23:47
@rizen	true	23:47
@rizen	just to protect people from themselves?	23:47
@rizen	actually i want to talk to you about that too	23:48
+perlDreamer	okay	23:48
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5460 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Cron.pm: additional health check	23:48
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5461 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Cron.pm: merging changes from 7.5 branch	23:48
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5462 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/ (11 files): easy docs	23:48
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5463 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/ (8 files): removing generated images	23:48
@rizen	i was considering that you should be able to do a match against city+state = tax rate	23:48
@rizen	that way you wouldn't have to type in all the zip codes for a city	23:49
@rizen	but i couldn't figure out a way to make that work nicely for the user	23:49
@rizen	cuz in many countries it would be city + country	23:49
@rizen	rather than city + state	23:49
+perlDreamer	or city + county	23:50
@rizen	true	23:50
@rizen	maybe we better just leave it with zip codes	23:50
@rizen	more precise	23:50
+perlDreamer	that brings up my other idea	23:50
@rizen	ok	23:50
--- Day changed Sat Feb 16 2008
+perlDreamer	if we just use zip codes will that work internationally?	00:07
@rizen	yes, all countries have post codes	00:07
@rizen	at least all countries i've shipped to, which is more than 80 of them	00:08
+perlDreamer	then we reduce the table schema just to taxId, zipCode and taxRate	00:08
@rizen	no	00:08
@rizen	cuz there are taxes you might apply per zip code	00:08
@rizen	but there might also be state tax	00:08
@rizen	and there might also be country tax	00:09
@rizen	so if you put in a state tax of 5.0	00:09
@rizen	and a particular county has a tax rate of 0.5	00:09
@rizen	then you just add in the post codes for that county at 0.5	00:09
@rizen	and together it makes 5.5	00:09
@rizen	get it?	00:09
+perlDreamer	yup	00:09
@rizen	that's why i designed it the way i did	00:09
@rizen	cuz most of the time you can get away with just applying a tax rate for a country or state	00:10
@rizen	rather than individual zip codes	00:10
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5464 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/ (cart.pod commerce.pod): seperated the cart doc out on it's own	00:19
@rizen	webguidev hasn't had so much traffic since the late 6.x days	00:24
+perlDreamer	Nope :)	00:25
+perlDreamer	I'm about to do a commit. Please let me know if I've got the right idea for getItems	00:25
@rizen	hopefully us discussing stuff out there will inspire some others to help us	00:25
+perlDreamer	so minor questions here, major stuff out there, or do you want as much traffic as possible?	00:26
@rizen	we can chat back and forth on here, as it's certainly quicker	00:27
@rizen	but the more stuff we put out on the dev mailing list the more likely people will be to join us	00:27
@rizen	cuz there aren't that many people in here	00:28
@rizen	compared to the dev mailing list subscribers	00:28
@rizen	not to mention the traffic to the web site that isn't subscribed at all	00:28
+perlDreamer	but you can track that via page views	00:28
@rizen	we had over 1 million page views last month	00:28
@rizen	the largest month in our history	00:28
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5465 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (3 files in 3 dirs):	00:32
CIA-40	WebGUI: Add the tax table.	00:32
CIA-40	WebGUI: Add the getItems method, for accessing the entire tax table.	00:32
@rizen	yup, that looks right pd	00:37
@rizen	so are you doing development along side testing?	00:37
+perlDreamer	one method at a time	00:38
+perlDreamer	test first, then write the method	00:38
@rizen	i c	00:38
@rizen	is that how tdd is supposed to work?	00:38
@rizen	i thought you were supposed to write all your tests first	00:38
+perlDreamer	I think that's one style of doing it	00:39
+perlDreamer	I was reading the wikipedia article on it	00:39
+perlDreamer	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test_driven_development	00:39
+perlDreamer	What I'm doing is probably closer to the refactoring flow	00:40
@rizen	hmmm	00:40
@rizen	well that's cool	00:40
@rizen	unfortunately i can't do that	00:40
@rizen	the cart relies on the Sku object	00:40
@rizen	and the Product object	00:41
@rizen	to succeed	00:41
@rizen	maybe i should have started there	00:41
+perlDreamer	Yeah	00:41
@rizen	but the cart is my baby	00:41
@rizen	it's the one i spent the most time on	00:41
@rizen	=)	00:41
+perlDreamer	It's all yours, I won't touch it	00:42
@rizen	that's not what i mean	00:42
@rizen	just i'm proud of how it's designed	00:42
@rizen	i think the process flow is so much more elegant than the current one	00:43
+perlDreamer	Are rates stored as multipliers, or as percentages? 5% vs 0.05	00:45
@rizen	don't care	00:45
@rizen	just be consistent	00:46
@rizen	all of that info is handled inside the tax object	00:46
@rizen	so it doesn't matter what you do	00:46
+perlDreamer	Okay, I'll document it as percentage in the doc and the POD.	00:46
+perlDreamer	Humph, it says it right there.	00:47
+perlDreamer	"A percentage of the sale price to tax."	00:47
* perlDreamer should be scolded for not reading the spec		00:47
@rizen	Yeah, but the spec is only a guideline	01:01
@rizen	don't think it's written in stone	01:02
+perlDreamer	Okay.	01:02
+perlDreamer	What's the sales tax in Wisconsin like?	01:09
@preaction	0.05 in most places	01:09
@preaction	i think madison has an additional 0.005 for the city	01:10
@rizen	madison is a good example	01:10
@rizen	5% for state	01:10
@rizen	0.5% county (dane)	01:10
@rizen	0.05% city (madison)	01:10
@rizen	do you want some madison zipcodes to test with?	01:11
+perlDreamer	sure!	01:11
@rizen	53701 - 53719	01:11
@rizen	53703 is jt's zip	01:11
@rizen	53715 is plain black's zip	01:11
+perlDreamer	we'll tax him more!	01:11
+perlDreamer	then he can throw some tea in the lakes and declare independence from Dane county and make his own county	01:12
@rizen	i'm not activist enough to do that	01:13
nuba	RFE: make 53715 expose an easter egg in the commerce system	01:14
+perlDreamer	let me guess, there's no 53715?	01:15
+perlDreamer	oh, no	01:15
+perlDreamer	nm	01:15
+perlDreamer	I need a break	01:15
@preaction	make it change the cart style to black background, white and light-blue text	01:15
nuba	yes there is http://www.plainblack.com/contact_us	01:16
-!- rizen is now known as rizenhasadate		01:18
+perlDreamer	ALL RIGHT!	01:18
nuba	have fun	01:19
CIA-40	WebGUI: jt * r5466 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (3 files in 2 dirs): started cart tests, realizing need to build sku first	01:21
+perlDreamer	Only 88 commits to 5555	01:28
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5467 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (3 files in 3 dirs):	01:43
CIA-40	WebGUI: Fix a bug in the upgrade script, with a default applied to the wrong column.	01:43
CIA-40	WebGUI: Built the add method, and tested it, too.	01:43
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CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5468 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Tax.pm t/Shop/Tax.t): Tax: add the delete method, with tests	08:00
-!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-