WebGUI irc logs from: 2008-01.log

--- Log opened Tue Jan 01 00:00:28 2008
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CIA-19WebGUI: colin * r5217 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Asset.t: add tests for getTitle and getMenuTitle05:18
CIA-19WebGUI: colin * r5218 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Asset.t: tests for getToolbarState, toggleToolbar and getUiLevel06:18
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CIA-19WebGUI: doug * r5219 /branch/doug-experimental/lib/WebGUI/ (Asset/Report.pm i18n/English/Asset_Report.pm): Nightly checkin because you forgot14:03
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perlmonkey2Everyone still hung over?20:23
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BartJolwell happy new year everybody21:39
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CIA-19WebGUI: colin * r5220 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Asset.t: 21:48
CIA-19WebGUI: Add the failing test for assetAddPrivileges back in, but don't run it.21:48
CIA-19WebGUI: Add tests for assetUiLevel and getUiLevel.21:48
CIA-19WebGUI: colin * r5221 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Asset.t: Coverage tests for assetExists.23:48
--- Day changed Wed Jan 02 2008
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dannymkcap10morgan, please contact me when you get a chance.  I would like to add your patch to my module, however I have a few questions.00:12
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dannymkHi preaction01:18
dannymkhappy new year.01:18
dannymkI am in the process of adding Authentication 2.0 to the OpenId module01:19
dannymkas you requested.   However, the rest will have to wait.  Just started a new Perl training job that is taking up a lot of my time.01:21
dannymkHave you seen cap10morgan on this channel in the last month?01:22
@preactionno problem, i've finally got time and my own branch to start experimenting with, but i've got some productivity things to do first (since everything I do would be so much easier if I didn't copy/paste it every single time, and instead subclassed it)01:22
@preactionyes, once in a while01:22
dannymkI need to talk to him about his patch.  Where can I find his email?01:25
@preactionis his profile private?01:26
@preactionyou might want to just reply to the thread, he'll get an e-mail if he's subscribed to it01:29
dannymkI also would like to work on the WChat object.  Since I have been away a while I expect someone else took on the module.01:30
dannymkhas it been worked on?01:30
@preactionnope, we've been busy on other things01:30
dannymkDarn, I need to work on that too.01:31
@preactionI've got a little ajax-enabled Shoutbox asset though, if you want the code for that01:31
dannymkReally would love to have that Chat WObject01:31
@preactioni made it as part of the WUC last october01:31
@preactionyou still haven't gotten it? we tried about 10 different ways01:31
dannymkyes, I have it now.  Just have not worked on the code01:32
dannymkwould like it to be done!  :-P01:32
dannymkGuess, I have to work on it.01:32
@preactionit'd be nice, to be sure01:32
@preactionbut imho there are more important things. the chat wobject is a flashy eye-candy thing, i've got internal mechanical things that i need to work on to make webgui better01:33
@preactionthat isn't to say that the chat wobject won't bring more people into webgui than my work01:33
dannymkyou guys have your hands full and that is why I help when I can.01:35
dannymkI appreciate the software.  It is clean, simple and somewhat well documented.01:35
@preactionhave you seen the new URL / Content handlers, they're insanely awesome01:35
@preactionthe new developments in 7.5 (HEAD) are going to kick even more ass than 7.4 did01:36
@preactionperlbot crud01:38
@preactionperlbot learn crud as Create, Retrieve, Update, Delete -- the four corners of a proper database management tool01:38
perlbotadded crud to the database01:38
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dannymkNot yet, very immersed in this new project I have in my new job01:47
@preactionunderstandable, new jobs are always fun01:47
dannymkI hate sysadmin/developer work but I hae to make a living :-)01:47
@preactionwhy do you hate sysadmin/developer work? what would you rather be doing?01:47
dannymkthat is why I don't login during the day any longer01:47
dannymkI just rather be just a developer01:47
dannymkin these jobs I have to be a jack of all trades.  Sysadmin, DBA, Developer, Designer, etc...01:48
@preactioneh, i'm a generalist. i learned how to be a developer, and now that i've got a very decent job doing that, i'm teaching myself how to sysadmin / netadmin / network, etc..01:48
@preactioni like knowing as much as possible about everything01:48
dannymkI have been doing it almost 20 years and my mind can't take all the junk :-(01:49
dannymkjust too much to learn01:49
dannymkdon't mind working on stuff a bit but when it becomes part of my job then it becomes a problem01:50
dannymkthat is why I left my last job after 18 years01:50
dannymkwas tired of carrying the DBA01:50
@preactionanother middle manager trying to cut corners by making you work three jobs?01:51
dannymkNO, we had a sysadmin which I had to train then we had an older guy that really did not understand Oracle working as an Oracle DBA01:52
@preactionmuch fun01:55
@preactionas they say, everyone gets promoted just to their level of incompetence01:55
@preactioni feel that some people are better at faking competence than others01:55
dannymkPeter principle all the way, but that is the motto of the federal govt.01:56
dannymkoops, did I say that :-)01:56
@preactionsurprisingly we've got a few gov't clients, and they're very helpful when it comes to testing / exercising the code we write for them01:57
dannymkAh, not every office is like that01:58
@preactioni mean, we've probably doubled the size of WebGUI with one of our projects, and there remain little-to-no bugs in their code since they're so thorough in tracking them down01:58
dannymkGood to know.01:59
@preactionbut, it just means they've got competent people. that and their entire department lives and breathes their website01:59
@preactionwhich is another testament to the stability and usefulness of WebGUI ;)02:00
dannymkwell, that may be a well designed office.  Can't say the same for the place I worked.02:00
@preactionit's almost as if the bigger an office gets, the more people rubbing shoulders and bumping elbows, the more BS gets floated around, the more market-speak team-building d'ya-have-a-second-to-help-this-guy-every-day-for-his-entire-career, and in a creative business like software development, the best people can't thrive02:02
dannymkah, you have experience in this area :-)02:10
dannymkLOL.  Well, I hope the new year brings us better circumstances.  Take care and again,  Happy New Year....02:11
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asciihow ya like dstat03:59
CIA-19WebGUI: colin * r5222 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Asset.t: 04:48
CIA-19WebGUI: Cover several other small utility routines. More getNotFound04:48
CIA-19WebGUI: tests need to be written.04:48
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Radix__Yeah, a belated Happy New Year from me too guys :)15:53
SDuensinBlah.  New Year means I had to go back to work.  :-P16:12
Radix__I'm off until monday16:26
Radix__but I wish I was back at work16:27
Radix__40'C tomorrow, no aircon at home, and power shortages to boot16:27
Radix__tempted to go in tomorrow and take monday off in lieu ;)16:29
Radix__Oh no.. maybe not.. monday is forecast for 40'C too16:30
BartJolAustralian whether isn't much fun, I understand16:30
Radix__Actually for most of the year it's great16:31
Radix__just summer sucks16:31
Radix__you get days where it's 40-45'C16:31
Radix__last week we had a temp of 45.5'c16:31
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Radix__highest on record for december since 1963 16:31
Radix__jan/feb always sucks for temps16:32
BartJolhere it's about 1 C16:32
Radix__yah, well our temp doesn't really go that low generally.. or very rarely ;)16:32
nubasummer here in Rio sucks a bit too16:37
nubatoo hot sometimes16:37
nubathanks god for A/C16:38
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@khennhappy new year =)17:55
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teflond0nanyone here have any luck importing users into a database for webgui?18:23
teflond0nstill havent had any luck with the userImport.pl18:23
Radix__I had no problems at all with userImport.pl18:24
Radix__What's happening exactly? are you getting errors?18:25
teflond0nits saying DateTime isnt defined....   for some reason the perl mods arent wanting to cooperate18:25
teflond0nis there another way to just have it import a csv file or something18:30
@rizenyou need to set a TZ environment variable18:30
@rizenlike TZ=America/Chicago18:31
Radix__tzselect should help with that18:36
Radix__or tzconfig18:36
Radix__you're going to have other issues later on if you don't sort out the DateTime issue now anyway18:37
nubaspectre would fail for me with 'Cannot determine local time zone' 18:38
nubauntil I did a "cp /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Sao_Paulo /etc/localtime"18:38
nubado your /etc/localtime file exists?18:39
Radix__actually /etc/localtime should be a symlink - and the correct way to configure it is to use tzselect or tzconfig18:50
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nubamakes sense18:53
nubacp worked fine for me tho ;)18:54
nubahey, freebsd's tzsetup prefers "cp" too, just tested and it makes a copy, not a symlink18:56
Radix__it'll work.. just not as nice as a symlink ;)18:57
Radix__ubuntu/debian/centos all create symlinks18:57
nubamaybe it's a "Junior" sindrome, these linux kids, always choosing to do different than their daddy (freebsd) ;D18:58
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teflond0ni do see the etc/localtime file19:24
teflond0nbut I am running it on Mac osx19:25
teflond0nnot sure if that will cause any issues with it19:25
teflond0nhey nuba since I live near the Atlanta, GA area would should it be /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/New_York ?19:38
Radix__if it's in the same timezone as you, then yeah, that'd work19:44
perlDreamer... and WebGUI slowly wakes up from its week-long slumber19:44
nuba'morning, webgui!19:46
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teflond0nanyone know what the equivalent would be in osx for the tzconfig or tzsetup19:56
perlDreamersorry, I don't use osx19:56
@rizenyou shouldn't need it on osx19:59
nubai think you can find that under "system preferences"20:00
@rizenosx sets it automatically when you edit your clock20:00
@rizenperhaps you're not using the right perl20:00
@rizendid you do20:00
@rizen. /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment.sh20:00
@rizennote the dot and the space that come before the command20:00
teflond0ni did the command from that directory so it was ./data/wre/sbin/setenvironment.sh20:02
teflond0nno spaces20:02
teflond0nwould it be bad to comment that out in the userImport where it asks for the DateTime20:15
teflond0ner possible20:17
teflond0nrizen any more suggestions20:18
@rizenthat's bad20:18
@rizenand you need the space20:18
@rizenit's absolutely important20:19
@rizenthat's almost certainly where your problem is at this point20:19
@rizenand if it's not, i'd recommend you get plain black support20:19
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perlmonkey2Making the YUI widgets look good is killing me.20:30
@khennwhich ones?20:30
perlmonkey2rizen: I'm not that great at layout/design.  Is there a way to make regular html inputs look sexy, because the YUI widgets are too hard to manipulate given they are buried in like 3 objects when created with JS.20:30
perlmonkey2khenn: Menu and buttons.20:30
@khennthe newest yui menu is all CSS based20:31
@khennnever played with the buttons20:31
@khennbut we've made some pretty cool looking drop down menus20:31
perlmonkey2khenn: When selecting a question type in the menu, I dynamically generate options for that question type.  The divs grows and shrinks and I have to do a bunch of crazy stuff to make them look like I want.20:32
@khennhmm, I guess I'm not following.  You lost me with "question type"20:33
@rizenhe's working on the survey20:34
@rizenit's a new ajax style interface for the survey20:34
perlmonkey2If they had a menu option that was multiple select, I'd just use that.  20:34
@rizenpm2, i'm not a good one to ask. both khenn and preaction have played with yui a lot more than me20:34
@rizeni just use it for adding functionality to form controls20:35
perlmonkey2There button objects, while prettier than radio buttons, are still large and clunky.20:35
perlmonkey2I could use css to make them pretty, but that isn't what I do :)20:35
perlDreamerrizen: I think maxscience/iPhoneGuy had a 3rd alias that was also mac related20:35
@khenncss is how to make stuff in yui pretty though20:36
@khennso you will definitely find it difficult to do w/o it20:36
@rizenperlmonkey2 if you make it work and then give me some sort of documentation on one css classes and ids you've exposed20:37
@rizeni can have our designer come up with the pretty css for you20:37
@rizenor rather, i'll just introduce you to our designer when he comes back from vacation20:37
perlmonkey2rizen: that would be great.  20:37
perlmonkey2rizen: I guess that means I can stop futzing with the layout and just throw it on the page and worry about functionality.20:38
@rizenwhat's your email address, i'll send an introductory email to steve 20:39
teflond0ncan anyone let me know where the sql database is that contains the list of users ?20:49
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perlDreamerit called "users"20:49
perlDreamerand the groups one is called "groups"20:50
ckotilwhat about settings?20:50
perlDreamerI think it's called settings20:50
ckotili dont get it.20:50
perlDreamerand the one for assets is called asset20:50
ckotilwho came up with that scheme?20:50
perlDreamersome guy named JT20:50
ckotilhe's too smart.20:51
@rizenhe's an idiot20:51
@rizenyou give him too much credit20:51
perlDreamerwhat?  you mean he didn't come up with that schema?20:51
ckotilcoworker of mine installed the new wre on RH5.20:51
ckotilhe said it the installation was a breeze.20:52
ckotiland it was really easy to setup 3 sites.20:52
ckotilhe rarely touches webgui, but since i talk about it all the time he decided to try it out.20:52
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perlmonkey2I set of the WRE on cent5.1 a few weeks ago and it was extremely nice.20:54
@rizenyou guys have no idea how glad it makes me to hear that20:56
perlmonkey2I wanted to throw out an idea and see what people thought.  Since disk is becoming really cheap, but CPU/Ram is still expensive as far as hosting is concerned.  What about a Wobject that would allow files to be remotely hosted, but WebGUI would treat them like local files?  Maybe build in DAV support, or something like it?20:56
@rizenit means that the 400+ hours that I put into WRE 0.8 was worth it20:56
perlmonkey2rizen: Yeah, I would never use anything but the WRE for production now.20:56
@rizenpm2: re your idea, i'd need further description to understand what you'd want and why before i could make a judgement20:57
perlmonkey2rizen: Like the file pile but would store the files on a remote file server.20:57
@rizenwhy would that be good?20:59
@rizenthat would actually increase the use of the CPU and memory because then all those files would have to be served through mod_perl so it could request them from the dav server20:59
@rizenthat is unless the dav server also had a straight http url for the file and you were willing to expose that url directly to your users21:00
perlmonkey2rizen: I was actually thinking that WebGUI would do a one time authen for the users ip, and the remote file server would directly serve to them that once.21:00
perlmonkey2This may be a solution that doesn't really fit any given problem though.21:01
@rizenhrmm.. i guess off the top of my head i can't see anyone actually using that so it's not something i'd allow in the core21:01
@rizeni do want to go the other way around however21:01
@rizeni want to create a dav interface into webgui21:02
nubai've been toying about the idea of sending static content somewhere else, too21:02
@rizenso you can use webgui as a file store21:02
nubakeeping only the webgui brains running in my dedicated box, 21:02
nubaand push uploads etc to a cheap hosting elsewhere21:02
@rizennuba, you can already do that21:02
nubayou can do that with modproxy and rewrites, yeah21:02
@rizenyou can just push all the static uploads to a file server using a remote mount21:02
nubabut how about sync etc?21:02
nubasuppose there's no remote mounting21:03
@rizenand then change your uploads folder to point to http://files.example.com/uploads/21:03
nubayou won't see that in the feature list of these mega-cheap hosting plans21:03
perlDreameryou also won't see WebGUI there, nuba21:03
@rizenyou can use ftp as a remote mount21:03
nubayeah, thats why i dont even think about pushing webgui there21:03
nubajust the uploads etc21:03
@rizenyou can also use FUSE scpfs21:03
perlmonkey2those mega cheap hosters allow ftp21:03
perlmonkey2I've found that those mega cheap hosters are also extremely slow.  They brag about 1 million TB connections to the net, but the reality is like 128kb21:04
nubayeah, then theres the latency between uploading the file to the webgui host and it being pushed to the cheapass server21:04
perlDreamerrizen: tonight could you please turn on the -v switch to testCodebase so I can diagnose the failing DeleteExpiringWorkflows test?21:06
perlDreameractually, doesn't have to be tonight.  Any night would be good.21:06
nubato be honest, i didnt stop to think thoroughly about this yet, of coupling webgui dox + cheapass server21:10
nubafor now a single dedicated box is good enough for me21:11
nubaa seducing "next step" lately has been checking the amazon's EC2 thing21:12
perlDreamerI looked at that as a smoke testing platform21:13
perlDreamerSeemed expensive for a volunteer budget21:13
nubainstead of ugly hacking and glueing of scattered hosting services here and there21:13
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nubarizen: wont PB.com be interested in funding the smoke test box?21:16
perlDreamerthey run a smoke test now21:18
perlDreamerbut I was thinking bigger.  Multiple OS'es, multiple WRE's21:18
nubai see. like a testing farm.21:18
perlDreamerit's been really hard to get other people into testing wG21:18
nubawhat are the requirements if one wants to help?21:21
perlDreamerthere are two main testing needs21:22
perlDreamer1) We need lots more tests to be written21:22
perlDreamerand that can be done piecemeal21:23
perlDreamer2) I think we need a testing aggregator to take smoke reports from lots of users and coallate them21:23
perlDreamerbut we don't have the lots of users part yet so it's a lower priority21:23
@rizenpd: just turned on the -v flag, please let me know when we can turn it off again21:24
perlDreamerokay.  Tomorrow should be good to turn off.  It will just make a BIG smoke report tonight21:24
perlDreamerhm.  Maybe I should add in diagnostics so we can truly do it in one shot...21:24
perlDreamerI think a test may be leaking Session information, which is why the test DeleteExpiredSession test is failing21:25
@rizenpd, i have a spare box running vmware that i use for compiling and testing the wre on multiple platforms (everything except mac and windows)21:25
@rizenhowever, the problem with using that is when it comes time to build a new WRE, i'll have to resetup all the tests again21:26
@rizenthat's more work for me21:26
@rizenand i'm already a big bottlekneck21:26
perlDreamerit would be good if it was scriptable21:26
perlDreamerthe host would instanciate the virtual sessions, run a test on them, submit the smoke report for each21:27
perlDreamerbut I don't know if that is possible on VMware or not21:27
perlDreamerbesides, it would be good to get more people in the community involved if possible21:27
nubavmware has a perl api21:27
nubaso you could switch machines on, off, etc with a script if you want21:28
@rizenall the vmware hosts are up all the time21:28
@rizenso we don't need to turn them on or off21:28
@rizenit's a beefy box21:28
@rizendual proc xeon with 4gigs of ram21:28
@rizenso it can actually run about 6 os'es at the same time reliably21:28
@rizenpd, i could give you access to the box if you would like to set it up as a test system for multiple platforms21:29
nubasounds like you're proud of you muscle car^H^H^Hserver ;)21:29
perlDreamersounds like I need start researching aggregators then :)21:30
@rizenwe could have them all post to the smoke tests forum21:30
perlDreameryes, but aggregators can also generate reports with the data, like "This test started failing on this platform at that SVN rev"21:31
perlDreamerbut while the research gets done, it wouldn't hurt to post them21:31
@rizenthat's very cool21:32
@rizeni didn't know such a thing was even possible21:32
@rizenyou rock pd21:32
@rizenbtw, hop on IM and i'll give you the login info for that box21:33
nubarizem, why is it a good idea for spectre to handle tasks to a mod_perl enabled httpd instead of launching a WebGUI::Session-enabled, lean, script?21:38
@rizenfor lots of reasons21:39
@rizen1) spectre is single threaded21:39
@rizenso if something crashes21:39
@rizenit would crash spectre21:39
@rizenby keeping spectre small and clean, less chance of crash21:39
@rizen2) the mod_perl processes are already running so why not use them instead of loading all that code into ram yet again21:40
@rizen3) you can load balance workflows by adding more webgui nodes21:40
@rizenand thusly the workflow engine can grow with your web site21:40
@rizenis that good enough?21:40
nubayou could work around 1 with 'perl spectre_worker_instance.pl "do stuff"' with return code21:40
@rizeni could, and i did in the early versions of it21:41
@rizenbut 2 and 3 made me realize that was dumb21:41
nubaok, thanks for the reply21:42
nubaanother thing: i was editing some branches having many posts (about 3k total), and when clicking on 'save' the mod_proxy httpd would timeout while waiting for the mod_perl httpd's reply to the post. I didnt check the code but I risk guessing a branch edit means finding every descendant asset and creating a revision, creating the workflow instances, etc, all in a single request, is that right? 21:48
nubaand then, these timeouts became such a pita, and the toones of workflows became such a pita, that i deleted the entire site, and migrated again from scratch, this time adjusting all I wanted while creating the asset, to avoid "branch edits"21:53
nubabut basically, the idea is that "branch edit" dont seem to be scaling the way it works now21:57
@rizenthey don't scale well right now21:58
@rizenit's on my todo list to fix eventualy21:58
@rizenthey work fine if you have less than 100 children21:58
@rizenbut if you have more than 1000 children they are a concern21:58
nubai wonder if slicing the work with a recursive approach would be better, doing stuff like 1) edit me, 2) queue the task of editing for my children.22:02
@rizenit needs to be fixed in one of two ways22:03
nubajust my $0.0222:03
@rizeneither generate a workflow that will make all the edits to children22:03
@rizenor change the screen to stream informtation back to the browser22:03
@rizenas it makes changes22:03
@rizenso that it doesn't time out22:03
@rizenand the user gets immediate feedback22:04
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nubai had more questions but can wait 'till hes not afkb anymore ;)22:23
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nubaspanishinquisiti: nobody expected you here22:24
nubaNOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!22:25
nubawell i'll paste the questions here, so rizen can asnwer later if he wants, or not at all..22:26
nuba1) is WebGU::Session memory-hungry or its just me? While importing the 3k posts (photo gallery, each post w/ at least one pic), i had to do it in chunks (of about a hundred posts each), otherwise the import script would grow to eat all available memory and then die.22:29
nubathats all for now :)22:34
@preactionWebGUI::Session is huge, yes. but it has everything inside of it22:41
@preactionthere are things though, that might be able to be taken out when developing/running utility scripts, such as the query log, if it's possible22:41
perlDreamerpreaction: have you ever tinkered with Test::Builder?22:56
@preactionnot as such, no22:56
perlDreamerI've been trying to fix the problem with TODO tests with wg::Test::Maker::* and haven't had any luck22:56
@preactiondo we assume that anyone running SVN HEAD does a resetdev after every svn update? (or at least, if things break spectacularly)?23:02
perlDreamerif things break spectacularly, resetdev is the first thing I do23:02
@preactionor should we start instituting a plan to make running HEAD more managable, if/when the new upgrade system is implemented23:02
@preactionoh, dur, new upgrade system negates the need for it23:03
perlDreamerwhat's the new upgrade system?23:03
@preactionwhen it gets implemented: it's basically a way for each commit to SVN to be a "release"23:04
@preactionreleases are based on patches, which may or may not have associated collateral / executables23:04
@preactionof course, there's a -stable and -unstable branch, etc... full-featured, etc...23:05
perlDreamerrizenisafk: amazon is getting into the self-publishing biz.  I don't know how their rates compare to Lulu23:11
perlDreamerThat should help locate the extra session leaker.23:17
CIA-19WebGUI: colin * r5223 /WebGUI/t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm: add more diagnostics to help find the leaking session. These will be removed or hidden behind conditionals later23:18
@preactionit's possible to test the operation of a utility script, correct?23:34
@preactioni suppose the better question is should I? if it's being added to core23:34
perlDreamerI would, but I'm prejudiced that way23:38
perlDreamerI think new "Perl" way to do script testing is to wrap the guts in a module23:38
perlDreamerand both the script and test exercise the guts23:38
perlDreamerkind of MVC for scripts23:38
@preactionit's for migrating different types of content into a Gallery, i don't like the idea of putting "addAlbumFromCollaborationThread" in the Gallery, though the idea does have merit23:44
@preactionit's just the modular way seems messy and the monolithic way seems messy23:44
perlDreameror make a Gallery::Utility module?23:44
@preactionah, true23:44
@preactionthat sounds good, i'll do that23:45
@preactionthen i can also add the addAlbumFromFilesystem and i think there was another script that they wanted23:45
perlDreameryou're right about the messiness.23:49
perlDreamerEither it's all monolithic and you have to drive it with system calls23:50
perlDreameror you pull it into two pieces23:50
perlDreamerwhich both need documentation, etc23:50
@preactionit'll be good writing the Gallery::Utility framework though, and provide a way for people to make their own migration things23:52
--- Day changed Thu Jan 03 2008
perlDreamerSo hopefully by tomorrow I'll have the failing DeleteExpiredSessions test diagnosed00:07
perlDreamerand that will just leave us with the TODO'ed and SKIP'ed Gallery* tests00:07
perlDreamerthe eternally failing i18n label tests00:07
perlDreamerand the help.t test which is failing on empty Gallery* keys00:07
@preactionthe failing i18n/help tests are false keys00:07
@preactioni'll be working on all that for the next week or two, so no need to worry about those00:08
perlDreamersome of the i18n are false keys, the rest are from WebGUI::Setup and nested scope with i18n calls00:08
@preaction(admittedly, in addition to new dev)00:08
@preactionbut there is one i'm still wondering about: one test in the gallery still fails00:08
@preactionTest::Deep says "expected 6, recieved 6"00:08
@preactionso afaik it should pass00:08
perlDreamerWell, yes and no.00:09
perlDreamerThat's actually a false warning00:09
perlDreamerI worked on that a little yesterday00:09
perlDreamerCheck the commit log and that test for more info00:09
perlDreamerThe "real" problem is that asset sizes are wrong between the two methods of fetching the file_loop00:09
@preactionoh, ew00:10
perlDreameryeah, one says 311 bytes, the other says 31300:10
perlDreameronly two bytes different00:10
perlDreamervery strange00:10
@preactionso we leave it for now?00:10
@preactioni mean, hiding it behind TODO or SKIP seems wron00:10
perlDreamerI TODO'ed it for now, so that when it gets fixed it will "Unexpectedly pass"00:11
@preactionsounds good00:11
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perlDreamervayde: can you take this guy? http://www.zedshaw.com/rants/rails_is_a_ghetto.html00:25
vaydesure.  want me to rip his lungs out?00:26
perlDreamerNah.  He's only ranting at ruby people.00:26
perlDreamerbesides, if you break his toes one by one it's better00:26
vaydedunno if I have the patience for that.  I tend to prefer one good hard cross to the throat00:27
@preactionthis post, from the first few paragraphs, sounds like pure win00:27
vaydethough as I glance down this page, I feel the urge to do a similar page for the morons who originally wrote the code I'm hacking these days00:28
vaydelong time no chat preaction, how's things?00:29
perlDreamerThat might actually be useful, as I think it creates a "safe" ref back to $ref that doesn't allow stomping on it.00:29
perlDreamerbut it could be written more clearly00:29
@preactiondoStuff sounds like fun00:29
@preactionthings going about as normal, much new ideas but no time to implement them00:29
vaydeyeah, it *could* be useful like that perlDreamer, but they thought they had the original $ref to wrik with00:29
vaydesweet.  Just before christmas I finished rewriting this one site's code a 3rd time cos the morons supporting it don't think that changing a site I'm migrating will affect the schedule00:30
vaydeeven the project managers are starting to talk about buying me a ticket to go 'talk' to the bozos00:31
nuba>Their ideas were horrendously lame. I swear if someone says they.re starting a social network I.m gonna beat them with the heel of my shoe.00:33
nubapoor guy00:33
CIA-19WebGUI: graham * r5224 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetTrash.pm): fix: Assets with no committed versions may be left as orphans when parent is purged00:33
perlDreamerHaarg: You beastie.  Hack on!00:33
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vaydejeez this guy's got a head of steam going.  where did you find this?00:39
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vaydehmm, musta missed it this morning.  Bank woulda filtered it out anyway00:40
perlDreamerit just popped up within the last hour or so00:40
perlDreameryou woulda seen it tomorrow00:40
@preactionthe argument on ThoughtWorks and the Consulting thing is spot-on00:42
CIA-19WebGUI: graham * r5225 / (3 files in 3 dirs): 00:48
CIA-19WebGUI: Merged revisions 5224 via svnmerge from00:48
CIA-19WebGUI: https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/branch/WebGUI_7.400:48
CIA-19WebGUI: ........00:48
CIA-19WebGUI:  r5224 | graham | 2008-01-02 16:18:53 -0600 (Wed, 02 Jan 2008) | 1 line00:48
CIA-19WebGUI:  fix: Assets with no committed versions may be left as orphans when parent is purged00:48
CIA-19WebGUI: ........00:48
CIA-19WebGUI: chrisn * r5226 /WebGUI/ (6 files in 5 dirs): 00:48
CIA-19WebGUI: Add fine-grained export controls. You can now specify whether you want specific00:48
CIA-19WebGUI: assets to be exportable. If any of an asset's parents aren't exportable, that00:48
CIA-19WebGUI: asset also won't be exportable.00:48
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perlDreamerapeiron: with a default of 0, won't that disable exporting for the whole site when the user upgrades?00:51
@apeironperlDreamer, hm.00:51
perlDreameror am I reading the sense of the bit backwards?00:52
@apeironNo, you've got it right.00:52
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@apeironperlDreamer, But on the other hand, if it defaults to 1, those who *don't* want to export the entire site when they upgrade have to change a lot of assets.00:55
perlDreamerExactly, but currently wG allows exporting the entire site.  At the very least I think it would need something in the gotchas.txt file for the release.00:56
perlDreamerand, they'd only need to change the website root (defaultAsset), since it checks all parents00:56
perlDreamerso, if the default is 1, then you set any "node" to 0 to disable all of its children from exporting00:57
@apeironGood point, sir.00:57
@preactionyeah, i'm with colin: every upgrade must maintain the status quo. if they want change, they can do the work01:01
@preactionis there an edit branch entry for the exportable property?01:01
@apeironNot yet anyway.01:02
perlDreamerpreaction: I'm in violent agreement with you preaction, with the caveat "maintain the status quo whenever possible".01:04
perlDreamerIn any case, I think this is a cool feature to add to wG01:04
@apeironViolent agreement? 01:04
@apeironYou're taking up arms? :)01:04
perlDreamerYou ever watch an arguement where two people totally agree with one another but disagree on semantics?01:05
perlDreamer"violent agreement"01:05
CIA-19WebGUI: chrisn * r5227 /WebGUI/ (lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.4.18-7.5.0.pl): Maintain status quo and keep the default of exporting all assets.01:18
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@rizennuba: WebGUI::Session is not memory hungry that I know of. Are you sure it wasn't just your script? Could you provide me with your script so I could use it as a test case?02:23
@rizenpreaction: yes we assume that svn update means reset dev in a lot of cases02:24
@rizenperldreamer, do you have a link to the amazon self publish?02:25
perlDreamerre amazon: AP article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080102/ap_on_hi_te/business_of_life;_ylt=AhD5AwPjqeEzMAkaVBdrWqMDW7oF02:28
perlDreameramazon in particular: createspace.com02:28
CIA-19WebGUI: colin * r5228 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.4.18-7.5.0.pl: reorder upgrade steps so that addIsExportable happens before we try to update the templates02:33
CIA-19WebGUI: colin * r5229 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Asset.t: update plan and invert test for new default for isExportable02:33
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BartJo1yeah, just made my first sql report with template and it works!17:57
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perlDreamerNow, that's what I call a test log!19:12
perlmonkey2Setting visibility to hidden in a div should make all the children of that dom be inivisible.  That is unless you are using YUI which will laugh at your css and make you cry.19:27
perlmonkey2Even doing this after all the YUI objects have been created does nothing: var temp = document.getElementById("editanswer");19:29
perlmonkey2146             temp.setattribute("visibility","hidden");19:29
perlmonkey2I need a stick to beat YUI with.19:29
* nuba handles perlmonkey2 a large trout19:30
* perlmonkey2 wraps it in tinfoil and butter and places it over a camp fire.19:31
nubavery good, indeed its better to tell horror stories at night about YUI than resorting to violence :)19:32
nubaYUI the CSS eater19:33
perlmonkey2I can't be too mad at it, I have some groovy drag and drop boxes with some totally cool menus that change dynammically depending on what you click.  Looks slick.19:35
perlmonkey2My JS-foo was rusty.  setattribute is not synonymous with .style.19:44
perlDreamerrizen: ping19:50
perlDreamerdoes each child apache process end up with a session?19:51
@rizeneach page request ends up with a session19:51
@rizenand the session is destroyed at the end of the request19:51
perlDreamerhow 'bout each spectre runner?19:51
@rizenwhen i say destroyed i mean closed by the way, not deleted19:51
@rizenspectre does the same thing because as far as webgui is concerned it's just another web browser19:52
@rizenand spectre keeps track of the session id cookie just like a browser, so it reuses the cookie for subsequent requests19:52
@rizenmust get lunch now, be back in 10 min19:53
perlDreamerit's okay, you can have 3019:53
@rizeni can eat lunch whilst answering your questions20:00
@rizenmmmmmm. leftover meatloaf sandwiches20:01
perlDreamerWell, instead of digging, let me tell you what I see from the big test log of 200820:11
perlDreamerThe tests start with 3 pre-existing sessions.20:11
perlDreamerSessions also seem to be added and deleted, regardless of whether or not the test creates and cleans them up20:12
perlDreamerso I was trying to figure out where they might come from20:12
perlDreamerhere's the summary of the session info:20:13
perlDreamerso that's the mystery20:13
perlDreamerthe good news is that it has little, if anything to do with the DeleteExpiredSessions test failing20:13
@rizenis that session objects or session ids?20:14
perlDreamersession ids20:14
perlDreamerselect sessionId from userSession20:14
@rizenall the tests get the session from WebGUI::Test->getSession though don't they?20:14
perlDreameryes and no20:14
@rizenso if there's a problem wouldn't it be there?20:15
perlDreamerthey all get their main session from getSession20:15
perlDreamerbut some of them create auxiliary sessions for testing using Session->opn20:15
* perlDreamer digs a little20:16
@rizenthere shouldn't be many of those though, so it should be easy to locate and clean up problematic ones, right?20:16
perlDreameryes, but the first test run does not create 3 additional sessions20:16
perlDreamerthey were there before20:17
perlDreamerthe test started20:17
CIA-48WebGUI: jt * r5230 /tools/makerelease.pl: added verbose option and turned on <pre> blocks in message board formatting20:18
perlDreamerto me it looks like something else aside from the test is using the database20:18
@rizenwell the build script uses the database20:20
@rizento construct the create.sql20:20
@rizenthe tests actually run as part of the nightly build process20:21
@rizenwhich has to generate a create.sql script20:21
@rizenthat means it also runs the upgrade script20:22
@rizenit does that before the test process starts running20:22
perlDreamerthat would explain it20:32
perlDreamerI did find a test that is leaking sessions20:32
nubarizen: do we stick with the Locator name for the map asset?20:44
nubamaybe Map instead?20:44
@rizendon't care20:45
nubajust so you know, im back working on it since yesterday20:45
nubaive cleaned up my notes, and now I happen to know webgui's api better, so im rebooting the project and reusing some of the stuff i wrote hastly in aug/0720:47
nubawhat do you recommend, check out the head or work on 7.4.19-stable?20:47
perlDreamerusually, all new dev is supposed to happen on HEAD20:48
CIA-48WebGUI: colin * r5231 /WebGUI/t/ (Session/Scratch.t Workflow/Activity/DeleteExpiredSessions.t): 20:48
CIA-48WebGUI: Clean up all temporary session info in Session/Scratch.t20:48
CIA-48WebGUI: Add a preliminary run of DeleteExpiredSessions to DeleteExpiredSessions.t20:48
CIA-48WebGUI: to clean up any old, funky sessions which might just be lying around20:48
CIA-48WebGUI: and interfering with the test.20:48
@rizencheck out head20:48
@rizenfeel free to branch head for your own work if need be like preaction did for the calendar20:49
@rizenthat way you can continuously commit20:49
@rizenand not lose any work if your computer dies20:49
@rizenthen you can merge back to head when you're done20:49
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perlDreamerrizen: please pull the -v switch from the nightly smoke test run.  That test should pass now.21:13
CIA-48WebGUI: jt * r5232 /tools/makerelease.pl: don't need the -v anymore21:33
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nubachecking out HEAD to my SVK mirror..22:54
nubawill branch from there22:54
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nubaactually, head, body, limbs, etc.23:16
perlDreamernuba: was it hard to plug WebGUI's SVN into SVK?23:18
perlDreamerI've wanted to try for years, but haven't spent the time to actually do it23:18
nubajust followed http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/subversion23:18
perlDreamerand then import that into your SVK repo?23:19
perlDreamernm, I see there's a new section in there23:19
nubayeah, the only thing missing there is "svk depotmap --init"23:20
nubait me took about 30 mins to go from rev 1 to rev 523223:23
nubait was like history flashing before my eyes! :D23:25
perlDreamerit imported the whole thing?  That would be huge!23:30
nuba157M    .svk/23:31
nubanot as mammothy as i expected, too23:32
perlDreamerI kinda wish we also had imported the CVS history into there, too.23:33
nubais that still available somewhere?23:46
perlDreamermaybe.  if it's anywhere, it would be on sourceforge23:46
perlDreamerproject name pbwebgui23:47
CIA-48WebGUI: colin * r5233 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Post.t: 23:48
CIA-48WebGUI: AssetTrash bugfix exposes bad test code. There's no need to23:48
CIA-48WebGUI: purge when you can roll back a commit container asset like the CS.23:48
nubaits still there http://pbwebgui.cvs.sourceforge.net/pbwebgui/23:52
nubagoes as far as beta 3.7.0 23:53
perlDreamerresearching the history in SVN is a little tricky because there was a repo reorg last year23:53
--- Day changed Fri Jan 04 2008
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nubahey, how do you guys go about running HEAD? manually check upgrade_7.4.18-7.5.0.pl for changes every update?00:24
nubai just got a fatal cause column isExportable didnt exist yet..00:25
perlDreamerwhat rev did you pull?00:26
nubais this a mistake (whoever added it to upgrade_7.4.18-7.5.0.pl forgot to add it to create.sql) ?00:26
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perlDreamerIt's not a mistake, since create.sql is for VERSION-100:26
perlDreameryou install create.sql and then run the updater00:27
nuba5234 00:27
perlDreamerthat's also what I'm running, and it installs fine00:27
perlDreamercan you paste your resetdev script output please?00:28
nubaok. now, what about keeping it in sync?00:28
nubaits manual tracking of upgrade_7.4.18-7.5.0.pl, isnt it?00:28
nubai mean, the way to go00:29
perlDreameryou mean between your branch and HEAD?00:29
perlDreameryes, manually00:29
nubaok, thx00:29
nubai've no resetdev below /data/00:31
nubais that edible?00:32
perlDreamerit's a script that everyone has made.00:32
perlDreamerthere should be one in the core00:32
nubathis is on wre 0.7.00:33
nubais it a wre script?00:33
perlDreamerI don't use the wre, so I'm not sure00:33
perlDreamersee this: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m681280b00:33
nubai'll modify this to fit my setup00:39
nubaso this is THE resetdev?00:39
perlDreamerno, it's just mine00:40
perlDreamerfor THE resetdev, I'd ask a Plain Black staffer00:41
nubalooks like something useful to have at  https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/browse/tools/00:41
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nubaperlDreamer: you may want to look into upgrade.pl's --skipBackup --skipDelete --skipMaintenance for line 18 of http://webgui.pastebin.com/m681280b01:14
nubato make it faster01:15
perlDreamerthanks, nuba!01:16
perlDreamerpreaction: does the WRE have a builtin resetdev script?01:17
@preactionnot that i'm aware of01:17
@preactionthere's a better solution that graham was working on that didn't require so many passwords, but dunno how far he gots01:17
@preactioni made some of my own improvements to resetdev, but it's still a hack01:17
perlDreamercare to share?01:18
@preactionone sec01:18
perlDreamerjust don't paste it directly channel.  It makes Doug mad.01:18
nubagood, incorporating lines 16-20 into my hacked version of pD's resetdev lookalike01:24
perlDreamernuba: you only need to do that if you want to go through the initial site setup01:24
perlDreamerif I understand what's going on correctly01:25
nubayeah, i got it01:25
@preaction16 is the site setup, 17 is show debug more, 18-20 is start with auto-commit and real-time workflows01:25
perlDreamerI have an idea01:26
perlDreamerWhy don't we make one that is universal, in two flavors01:26
perlDreamerWRE and non-WRE?01:26
perlDreamerand then check them into the /tools area in SVN?01:26
@preactionthere's a tools area?01:27
perlDreamerIt's at the top-level01:27
nubaor maybe, if you're going to try doing it WRE/non-WRE neutral, at WebGUI/sbin01:28
@preactionit should be possible to do one resetdev for both WRE and non-WRE, with some decent sanity checks01:30
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perlDreamerhail, rizen01:32
@rizenonly here for 32 seconds01:33
@rizendon't hail me =(01:33
perlDreamernot hailed like a taxi-cab, hail like greeted with honor and respect01:33
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perlmonkey2If anyone cares the survey system is coming along nicely.  Tomorrow I'll put something public up for those who care to see how it is going.01:52
perlmonkey2It isn't tied to WebGUI yet, just javascript scalfolding for creating surveys.01:52
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@preactionshould've gotten him his own branch01:59
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dionakperlDreamer, are you awake?02:12
perlDreamerI'm here02:17
perlDreamerwell, kinda here anyway02:22
perlDreamerdionak: I'll be bouncing back and forth between two cubes, but I'm around.02:22
dionakperlDreamer: Hm. Sounds like you're busy. You had asked the other day if I have read Perl Best Practices and I just wanted to answer. It is on my list but has not been completely read yet. 02:23
perlDreameryes, I remember that. I had a question about stringy eval, but it's since been answered by JT checking in WebGUI::Pluggable02:31
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@rizenwhat is?02:41
@rizenoh, i'm quite proud of how it turned out02:43
dionakI can see why. :) I didn't realize you were planning a plugin system. How are you envisioning this to be used? 02:44
dionakit looks like you've been doing quite a bit of work.02:45
@rizenmost of the work i'm doing these days hasn't shown up in svn yet02:45
@rizenonly little things02:45
@rizenbut if you look at the pluggable urls, content handlers, or auth system (WebGUI::Operation::Auth) you'll see how it's used02:46
@rizentonight i'll convert macros and some other plugin points to use it as well02:46
dionakthats really cool, JT02:46
@rizenWebGUI::Pluggable is meant to be used at all plugin points to provide a speedy, easy, and secure way of loading plugins02:47
dionakso we could create our own plugin for a new auth method, for instance...02:47
@rizenyou always could, it's just that now there's a standard way that all plugins are loaded, rather than having each plugin system write it's own mechanism for loading them02:47
@rizenWebGUI::Pluggable is really meant to be used by core developers that create plugin entry points02:48
@rizennot so much for people who write plugins02:48
dionakah, ok.02:48
@rizenso if at some point you decided "JT, I think that session sub-objects should be pluggable?" 02:49
@rizeni'd say, great, let's use WebGUI::Pluggable to make that happen02:49
@rizenhave you seen the pluggable URL and content handlers02:56
@rizeni would think that those would probably be quite useful to Knowmad02:56
dionaki'm trying to envision how to use that02:57
perlDreameryou could use it to call PHP02:58
dionakso we could setup urls that handle content in a certain way?02:58
@rizenwell for URL handlers02:58
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@rizenyou can write a custom application at a specific URL that is not an asset02:59
@rizentherefore it doesn't load the asset system on those requests02:59
@rizenand thusly is much faster02:59
@rizenand less resource intensive02:59
dionakso we could use that for integrating software 02:59
dionakwhich we do a lot02:59
@rizenalso, some people don't want to write assets because they are too complicated, or you never want more than one instance of it on a site02:59
@rizenthat's a great example02:59
@rizenyou still have all of webgui's resources available, but you choose how to use them03:00
@rizenrather than being confined to the asset architecture03:00
@rizenfor reusable content objects, asssets are great03:00
dionakwow, that's really very useful. 03:00
@rizenbut for integration, assets are rarely great03:00
@rizenand for content handlers...have you ever wished you could have  your own pluggable operations?03:00
dionakyea, 03:01
@rizenwell with content handlers you could make your own operations system that would do whatever you wanted it to do03:01
@rizeninstead of op= you could have knowmad=03:02
@rizenas in /page?knowmad=dothis03:02
@rizenall the existing ops will still work03:02
@rizenbut now you can add your own things03:02
@rizenand since it's not using the op= interface03:02
@rizenyou don't have to worry about conflicting with future changes in webgui03:02
@rizenbecause knowmad= is your own namespace03:02
dionakso if i wanted to use another piece of software for say, forums or blogging or whatnot, I could just hook it in? That will certainly open up the possibilities for selling the CMS. 03:03
@rizenoh yeah03:03
dionakYea, that will work well. I'm looking forward to trying that03:03
@rizenever since i built the asset system into webgui it has become more of a cms and less of a framework03:03
@rizenit's moving away from it's framework roots03:03
@rizenso i decided it needs to get back tot he basics03:03
@rizenwhich is why i introduced pluggable url and content handlers03:04
@rizenif you're interested, there's an article in the black blog that explains it a little03:04
dionakcool, i'll share it with the group and check out the blog. Btw, I just noticed how few articles are on Sitepoint.com for perl.  Looks like a good writing opportunity.03:05
@rizennever even heard of that site03:06
@rizenbut if it's low on perl articles, you're right03:06
@rizena great opportunity03:06
dionakit's a top site on the web03:07
dionakcheck it out. i have to grab some dinner. thanks for the info!03:07
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CIA-48WebGUI: jt * r5234 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Macro.pm: switched macro system to use WebGUI::Pluggable03:18
CIA-48WebGUI: jt * r5235 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation.pm: converted WebGUI::Operation to use WebGUI::Pluggable03:33
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nuba'night folks05:15
nubaoff to bed!05:15
@preactionalthough i get annoyed by it, i am liking how the writing of tests are revealing bugs in almost completely unrelated areas07:15
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@preactionlatest bug: I seem to get intermittent "Cannot call purgeRevision on an undefined value" when rolling back a version tag containing Threads, but rolling back by going into the site itself works just fine07:16
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CIA-48WebGUI: doug * r5236 /WebGUI/ (6 files in 6 dirs): Added migration utility for Gallery08:33
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CIA-48WebGUI: doug * r5237 /branch/doug-experimental/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Nightly checkin because you forgot14:03
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BartJolgood morning to you15:55
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wgGuest40i have a question17:05
wgGuest40a macro can return a array of elements?17:06
BartJolwell I think so17:07
BartJolit might complicate your return statement17:09
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wgGuest40why the return statement will be complicated?17:14
BartJolwell, just a layout thingy, if all the output is placed on one line without delimiters17:16
BartJolI'm not an expert in these matters, just trying to help...17:17
@rizenmacro can't return an array17:18
@rizenit must return a string17:18
@rizenthat said, if you want it to return a comma delimited string17:18
@rizenthat string could then be passed in to to another macro17:18
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perlmonkey2It could return a Storable object which could be any complex data structure.17:42
perlmonkey2oh, they left.17:42
perlmonkey2freeze is so underutialized :P17:42
@rizenfreeze is bad17:42
@rizenand not allowed in webgui17:42
perlmonkey2serializing is bad?17:43
@rizenactually storable isn't allowed in webgui17:43
@rizenno serializing is good17:43
@rizenstorable is bad17:43
@rizenbecause it's binary storage, which is architecture dependant17:43
@rizenso it's not portable17:43
@rizenwe recommend serializing to json17:43
perlmonkey2hmm......so freezing on my x64-86 won't thaw on my x86?17:44
perlmonkey2json is good too.  json is also underutialized.  it is especially good for moving data to/from JS :)17:45
perlmonkey2FYI: Storable has 'nstore' which is arch independant.17:52
BartJolwell, it's weekend for me, beers, here I come18:08
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@rizenit's supposed to be arch independent18:09
@rizenbut we had some problems with it a while back18:09
@rizenpeople transitioning from PPC to intel on mac lost a bunch of poll data as a result18:10
@rizenso we decided then that it was time for it to go away18:10
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perlmonkey2Wow, well that sucks.  I won't be using Storable anymore then.19:00
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perlDreameryeah!  "Clean" test results again!19:24
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@rizenwahoo pd20:00
@rizennice job20:00
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perlDreamerrizen: Do the modules in Operation/*.pm need to be Plug'ed, too?20:21
@rizenare there any other than auth that load plugins?20:21
@rizeni don't think so20:21
@rizeni already made Operation.pm use pluggable20:22
perlDreamerSeveral of the modules load things using eval.20:22
perlDreamerSpellCheck, Workflow20:22
@rizenthen yes we should do it20:22
@rizenoh good point20:22
@rizeni forgot about those20:22
@rizenyou want me to do it, or are you going to do it?20:22
@rizeni suppose i should20:22
perlDreamerI can do a few of them today20:22
@rizeni shouldn't make you clean up my mess20:22
@rizenthat's bad20:22
@rizeni'll do it20:23
perlDreameras you wish20:23
@rizeni'll do it now20:23
perlDreamerack eval Operation/*20:23
@rizeni'm going to leave commerce as is for now20:23
@rizensince i'm working on replacing it20:23
@rizeni should be using $class->can in WebGUI::Pluggable20:25
@rizenthat would be a good extra check20:25
perlDreamerwould that work on procedural code?20:25
perlDreameror just on objects?20:25
@rizenno just on the objects20:25
@rizeni don't think that would work on procedural20:25
@rizenbut if it would, that would be sweet20:25
@rizencould you look that up for me?20:25
perlDreamerno procedural code20:26
perlDreamerand doesn't work on AUTOLOADs20:26
@rizenoh crap20:30
@rizenthen maybe i shouldn't do it20:30
@rizenbecause then i can't use instanciate() on form controls20:30
perlDreamernot unless you call the form directly, instead of going through WebGUI::Form20:31
perlDreameriirc, WGBP says that AUTOLOAD is not recommended20:31
perlDreamerbut I don't know if we've thought that far ahead yet20:31
@rizenyeah, but autoload makes the form system usable20:32
@rizenwithout it, the form system wouldn't be nearly as cool20:32
@rizenwow there are a lot of plugin points in webgui that i forgot about20:42
@khennlike what?20:43
@rizenform controls, workflow activities, form helpers, workflow helpers20:43
@rizenjust to name 420:43
perlDreamerAsset constructors20:43
@rizenno, you did the last 220:44
@rizenand i know about asset, i just don't know how to do that one yet20:44
perlDreamerI was just adding to the list of plugin points20:44
@rizenit's a bit more complicated20:44
@rizenoh, i thought this was a list of ones i forgot20:44
@rizennot a complete list20:44
@khennyeah the ones you forgot20:44
perlDreamermy bad20:44
@khennpd just started listing them all =)20:44
@rizenfor a complete list we also have auth modules, macros, url and content handlers20:44
@rizenoh and any object for that matter20:47
@rizenas a parameter to a workflow activity20:47
perlDreamerI think I found the first WebGUI constructor that doesn't take a session object20:53
@rizenwhich is?20:54
@rizenthat's a mistake if that's the case20:54
@rizenit certainly should have a session20:55
perlDreamerI guess it does get a session, but it takes an asset as an argument20:56
perlDreamerit must get the session from that20:56
@rizenyeah it doesn't make sense to pass it in twice20:56
@rizenpd could you look at line 323 of WebGUI::Workflow::Instance for me21:01
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@rizenit seems like that shouldn't work21:02
@rizenbecause $params is an array reference21:02
@rizenand i think it should be @{$params} to make it work21:03
@rizenbut there haven't been any complaints, so i don't know what's up21:03
perlDreamermaybe they don't take params yet?21:03
perlDreameror all expect array references?21:03
perlDreamermy Workflow/Spectre-fu isn't that great21:07
perlDreamerbut it looks like it's creating itself over again21:07
perlDreamerbecause $class and $method come from $self, rather than the activity21:07
perlDreamerobviously, I'm not paying enough attention in the Workflow class :)21:10
@rizeni think i'm going to stop second guessing myself21:10
@rizenit's obviously working or workflows everywhere would be going to hell in a handbasket21:11
perlDreamerin my Workflow Instance table, all classes and methods are NULL21:12
@rizenyou probably only have maintenance workflows up right now21:13
@rizenwhich have no objects21:13
@rizenmost workflows are maintenance type21:13
@rizenbut approval workflows work on version tags21:13
@rizenand lots of other workflows work on groups and users21:13
perlDreameryou're right, I don't have any of those running right now21:14
@rizenworkflow is kind of an insane bitch21:14
@rizenbut i'm glad i wrote it21:14
@rizenit makes so many other things in webgui so much nicer21:14
perlDreamerI'll understand it better once I've tested it21:14
@rizenlike the new commerce system for example21:14
perlDreamerI'll understand that once I've tested it, too21:17
@rizenyou won't have to test that21:17
* perlDreamer briefly considers changing his nick to V'GER21:17
@rizeni'm building it doing test driven dev21:18
@rizenholy crap, i just cut about 40 lines out of WebGUI::Workflow::Instance due to WebGUI::Pluggable21:18
perlDreamerrefactoring rocks21:19
@rizenoverall I'd say WebGUI::Pluggable has eliminated about 250 lines of code21:19
@rizenoh wait, ->can will work with the forms system21:27
@rizenbecause it's in the AUTOLOAD method that we call can21:27
@rizenwe're not calling it on an autoload method21:28
CIA-48WebGUI: jt * r5238 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (4 files in 3 dirs): converted workflow system to use WebGUI::Pluggable21:34
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cap10morganshould ?op=spectreGetSiteData ever return an empty json object? (i.e. just "{}")21:41
@rizenno, at the very least it should have 2 nodes, the workflow and schedule nodes21:42
@rizeni forget the exact labeling21:42
cap10morganok, that's what i thought21:42
cap10morganhmm, my sites are returning empty objects21:42
cap10morganon 7.4.1421:42
cap10morgani'll try restarting21:42
@rizenthose nodes may be empty if you have no schedules or workflows21:42
@rizenbut they should at least exist21:42
perlDreameris there anything in your webgui.log?21:42
cap10morganno, i need to turn up the logging level though21:43
perlDreamerthere is one way for it to return {}21:43
perlDreamerand that's if you make an out of subnet request21:43
cap10morganperlDreamer: ah, that could be21:44
perlDreamersee line 62 of Operation/Spectre.pm in HEAD for an example21:44
perlDreamerif the request is out of subnet, it will issue a security warning and then fall through to the bottom21:44
cap10morganyep, that was it21:44
cap10morganthanks pD21:44
perlDreamerno sweat21:44
@rizenpd you around?22:11
@rizeni don't understand what i'm looking at in WebGUI::Operation::Help _loadHelp22:11
@rizenoh nevermind22:12
@rizennow i do22:12
@rizeni don't know how to load it though22:14
CIA-48WebGUI: jt * r5239 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (4 files in 2 dirs): migrated forms system to use WebGUI::Pluggable22:18
CIA-48WebGUI: jt * r5240 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/ProfileSettings.pm: converted to use WebGUI::Pluggable22:18
@preactionwould non-508-compliant asset templates in the core be considered a minor/cosmetic bug?22:32
@rizendepends upon the asset22:33
@preactionor since WebGUI is international, is there an international standard we can achieve?22:33
@preactioni seem to be getting bunches of questions about 508 and accessibility these days22:33
@rizenthe internatlonal standard is WAI compliance put forth by the W3C, however many countries (including the US) require their own compliance standards22:33
@rizenfor example, the project manager asset as far as i'm concerned, doesn't need to be WAI compliant because it is an intranet style app22:34
@preactionmy reply is invariably: depends on what the designer does, but a minor audit i conducted gave a few places where we could improve (if we're not, in fact, breaking 508)22:34
@rizenhowever, any app used by the general public should be WAI or section 508 compliant22:34
@preactionah, of course22:34
@preactionthe Collab System being one of those that might need a little 508 help22:34
@rizenit's such a big ass app these days22:35
@preactioninaccessible tables, there needs to be all manners of weird tags in tables22:35
@preactionthat too22:35
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CIA-48WebGUI: doug * r5241 /WebGUI/ (10 files in 4 dirs): Removed old .tmpl files from upgrades. All upgrade collateral must now be in .wgpkg packages23:03
@rizensoooooooooooo cooool23:04
@rizeni'm going to have to bring that up in one of the black blog NEXT posts23:04
perlDreamerrizen: I'd split it into two parts23:32
perlDreamer1) the load23:32
perlDreamer2) the data access23:32
@rizeni'm thinking about leaving it as is23:33
@rizensince it's a special case anyway23:33
@rizenor does that seem bad?23:33
perlDreamer"It's always easy to stay within strong boundaries."23:36
perlDreamerI'd covert the load to use Pluggable23:36
@rizenyour mom is a ______23:38
@preactionwhen a workflow activity has an error, it's supposed to increment the priority level, correct?23:38
@rizenin spectre yes23:39
@rizennot in the workflow table23:39
@preactionseems to not be happening, which is causing the same 5 activities to keep running over and over. i'll try to find out why23:40
@rizenblame apeiron23:41
@rizenit's fun23:41
@apeironNo, see, that's apeiron v1.0, the 2.0 model isn't fun any more.23:42
@apeironHowever, recent versions of khenn are still fun to blame.23:42
perlDreamerdoes it throw an exception when falsely blamed?23:42
@apeironOf course.23:43
perlDreamermust be good code then23:44
@rizenlet's try23:45
@rizenmy $apeiron = $pb->getEmployee("chris");23:46
@rizensay $apeiron->blame;23:46
perlDreameryou forgot to catch the exception23:46
@rizeni'm waiting to see die output23:47
@rizenso far nothing is printing23:47
@rizenthis is a slow program23:47
@rizenhrmmm...maybe it's hung23:47
@preactionit's backed up with errors from other processes23:47
@rizeni guess i'll have to kill it23:47
@rizen`killall apeiron`23:47
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perlDreamerit's a remote process, all you did was detach it23:48
@rizenthat seemed to work23:48
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@rizenoh no23:49
@rizenkill one employee object and an old one pops up in it's place23:49
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@rizenping vayde23:50
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@rizenit's not responding either23:51
@rizenbut the apeiron process spawned again23:51
@rizenit appears that killall needs a --stay-dead option23:51
@preactionso the getSuspendedQueue in spectre is supposed to have the same priority as the original workflow. and the "workingPriority" is the new priority that spectre itself uses?23:51
perlDreamerI told you that this was just a remote connection23:51
@apeironError: caught fatal MessingWithApeiron exception! Aborting...23:52
@rizenfinally some output from that damn program23:52
@rizeni guess he was right, you can't blame him without trapping the exception23:53
vaydehey rizen, how you been?23:53
@rizenpreaction: that sounds right, but i don't know unless i look at the code23:53
@rizenwow i must need a new computer23:53
@rizenmy ping command took forever to respond23:53
@rizenand it didn't follow protocol either23:53
@rizenthe vayde program is broken23:54
vaydelol.  yeah.  I get that alot23:54
--- Day changed Sat Jan 05 2008
@preactionlooks like it's just the spectre.pl --status message, it doesn't show the right working priority for suspended workflows, i expect because they're added to the suspended queue at their original priority00:04
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@preactionthere's still legacy workflow activities that have a 60-second run-time, would it be cool if I made that configurable? i've got 26000 e-mails and a site that seems to add them faster than they can be removed00:29
perlDreamerI think 60 seconds might be an "important" number00:30
perlDreamerlike, the spectre time ping interval00:30
@preactionit was, but that was changed iirc00:30
@preactionbecause now we have the workingPriority thing00:31
perlDreamerwell, if that's so (and admittedly, my spectre-fu is weak) then it should be okay to configure it.  TMRFE buy-in is always good.00:31
@preactioni updated the time, the job runs every minute now, but it still only gets rid of about 20 each time, which takes (say) two minutes (due to spectre overhead and other factors)00:32
@preactionperlbot math (26000 / 20 * 2) / 60 / 2400:33
perlDreamer20 email/minute seems very, very slow00:33
@preactionit'll take two DAYS to get through these...00:33
perlDreamerwhich server is that?00:33
@preactionthe Alumni site00:33
@preactionthey continue to stress parts of WebGUI that I don't think anybody else does00:34
perlDreamerI meant, which email server?  sendmail, qmail, exchange .. ?00:34
@preactionwe use sendmail iirc00:34
perlDreamerand it will take two days as long as no new ones are added00:35
@preactionthey have applications that allow them to send large HTML-formatted mails00:35
perlDreamerand they're using the collab as an email list server?00:35
@preactionto every user in their database00:35
@preactionso i think they used it once, maybe twice (since they can also configure who gets the messages, so not everyone has to)00:35
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@preactionso i was thinking some sort of message priority / first-in-first-out system00:36
@preactionsince important messages like lost passwords and welcome messages with important instructions are not getting sent out because they're behind (ordered by what though) other, less important messages00:36
perlDreamerA FIFO system will still block, but the messaging priority sounds good.00:37
@preactionordered by priority first, FIFO second (to make sure there's absolutely no chance that this kind of thing can happen again, unless the priorities are messed up00:37
perlDreamerI see. ORDER BY priority, dateSubmitted00:38
@preactionso i propose both really, because if you send a huge mass at the same priority, and then add another mass, but expect the first to be send before the second, you'll be disappointed00:38
@preactionlaugh, i'm up to 28000 now :p00:39
perlDreamersee, that's 10% more in 5 minutes00:39
perlDreamerwe need to find a better way to do large messages/large recipient sets00:40
@preactionsince most of there are the same message? but it's possible to personalize, no?00:41
@preactionisn't that what the "toGroup" thing in mailQueue is for?00:41
perlDreamersure, but would a forking dispatcher help?  Is sendmail the limiting factor, or is it Spectre?00:42
@preactionthe application generates a list, but it could generate a Group instead00:42
@preactionit seems like some get sent faster than others00:42
perlDreamerI'll be back in a while00:43
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@preactionperlbot math (28000 / 20 * 2) / 60 / 2401:29
CIA-48WebGUI: chrisn * r5242 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm: 02:48
CIA-48WebGUI: Add a check in update() for whether isExportable exists, preventing problems02:48
CIA-48WebGUI: with users upgrading from previous versions of WebGUI. Tested in an upgrade02:48
CIA-48WebGUI: from 7.4.0 -> SVN head (i.e., 7.5.0).02:48
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CIA-48WebGUI: chrisn * r5243 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.4.18-7.5.0.pl: Add a missing \t in the output of addIsExportable.03:33
CIA-48WebGUI: colin * r5244 /WebGUI/t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm: 04:33
CIA-48WebGUI: Keep the session tracking, but hide it behind an environment04:33
CIA-48WebGUI: variable to keep the line noise down. Also, add user and04:33
CIA-48WebGUI: group tracking.04:33
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CIA-48WebGUI: colin * r5245 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Asset.t: 06:18
CIA-48WebGUI: Add a stub test for newByDynamicUrl, that really should06:18
CIA-48WebGUI: have been a stub test for update.06:18
CIA-48WebGUI: Add tests for getNotFound, testing what is returned for both06:18
CIA-48WebGUI: a page and a Snippet.06:18
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+perlDreamerpreaction: are you awake and willing to answer inane testing related questions?06:19
@preactionthat depends, are you inane enough to handle the answer?06:19
@preactionthen fire away06:23
+perlDreamerI'm having no luck trying to use Test::Builder to TODO-ify tests in Test::Maker06:23
* nuba wonders if hes inane enough to watch the exchange..06:23
+perlDreamerSo I'm wondering why it isn't working06:24
+perlDreamerthe only thing I can think of is that it's OO instead of procedural06:24
* diakopter lurks06:24
nubadiakopter: want some popcorn?06:25
@preactionso because Test::More doesn't see that it's currently inside of a named TODO: block at some nesting depth, it doesn't truly label them as TODO?06:25
diakopternuba: i have plenty, thank you06:25
+perlDreamerMaybe I should commit the code06:25
+perlDreamerIt's harmless (useless)06:26
+perlDreamerso you can look06:26
+perlDreamerit's in06:27
+perlDreamerthe code is straight out of the Test::Builder::Module docs06:27
@preactionperhaps todo_skip would be better? does that work?06:29
+perlDreameryes and no06:29
+perlDreamerskip will make the tests not run06:29
+perlDreamerI want these tests to run06:29
+perlDreamerI wonder06:32
+perlDreamersince nothing is exported, import is never called06:32
@preactionlook at Test::Builder and look for <level> and tell me if that's what we're looking for06:32
+perlDreamerI did.  The Builder docs are bad06:33
+perlDreamerThat's why I chose Builder::Module06:33
+perlDreamerbut maybe the whole premise is wrong06:33
CIA-48WebGUI: colin * r5246 /WebGUI/t/lib/WebGUI/Test/ (Maker.pm Maker/Permission.pm): add prototype Test code to allow Test::Maker modules to handle TODO06:33
+perlDreamerand I should include that stuff in new06:33
+perlDreamerI'll try retrofitting to tht06:35
@preactionuhm, is there two package statements in WebGUI::Test::Maker now?06:35
+perlDreamerNo.  Why do you ask?06:36
@preactionit looks like the entire module got duplicated and pasted into itself06:36
@preactioni think it might've been there for a while06:37
@preactionit should only be 192 lines, not 38406:37
@preactionsame thing with Test::Maker::Permission06:38
+perlDreamerthe svn repo looks okay06:38
+perlDreamermy local copy looks okay06:38
+perlDreamerfor Test::Maker06:38
+perlDreamerI'll check Permission next06:38
+perlDreamerIt looks okay, too.06:38
@preactionha, i think it's because i'm looking at a different codebase :p06:39
@preactionyeah :p06:39
@preactionis there a test i can use to play with? I'm going to start messing around with Test::Builder and/or Test::More to see why it's happening06:40
+perlDreamersee the commented out code for canAddMaker206:41
+perlDreamerthat's also what I'm using, so it should be easy to duplicate results06:41
@preactionso i uncomment the code and try that?06:41
+perlDreamerand also the TODO code down below that calls the run method06:41
+perlDreamerlevel looks right.  It should kick things up 1 level06:44
@preactionso 92 and 93 are failing, when in fact they should be TODOing06:44
+perlDreamerright, they should fail AND be TODO'ed06:44
@preactionright, but it's not one level, they've decended a level because they're being called inside the Test::Maker06:45
@preactionthough i really don't quite understand it06:45
@preactionok() is called in Test::Builder, up one level would be the TODO: block, up one more would be main::, in a normal situation06:46
@preactionso if ok in Test::Builder is instead called in Test::Maker, which is called in a TODO: block, which is called from main, it would need to go up one more, no?06:47
+perlDreamerso adding 1 to Test::Builder::Level, localized?06:47
@preactionlets try06:47
@preactionomg it works06:48
+perlDreamerusing Builder::Module?06:48
@preactionadding 'local $Test::Builder::Level = $Test::Builder::Level+1;' as line 189 (or somewhere at the top of the run() sub)06:50
@preactioni think it's using Builder::Module, it's using runUsers()06:50
+perlDreamerYou're a genius06:51
+perlDreamerYou know what happens now right?06:51
+perlDreamerI have to bow to you.06:51
@preactionbut then, wouldn't that runUsers introduce another level of depth?06:51
@preactionso why does it work?06:51
+perlDreamermaybe it's caller depth, not stack depth06:52
+perlDreamerwe're two packages deep, regardless of how many subroutines are called06:52
@preactionthat sounds weird. Test::Builder uses caller() to try to find it, isn't that the stack depth?06:53
+perlDreamerI'm not sure.06:53
@preactionmeh, i expect it'll be an exercise for a later day, after we find another way to break things ;)06:53
* perlDreamer bows06:54
+perlDreamerThanks for collaborating, preaction06:54
@preactionnp, interesting problems are always fun, i don't come across nearly enough in my daily work ;)06:55
+perlDreamerany luck with the email bomb?06:55
@preactionnew ways on how to manage site-wide collateral data and reporting are so boring i'm making some superclasses that will cut my work by at least 70%06:55
@preactionyes and no, the e-mails have stopped increasing, but there's nothing i can do to keep things going faster really06:56
@preactionit only came to our attention because of some problems with version tags, perpetual.06:56
+perlDreameryeah, I found another good buglet today06:56
+perlDreamerbut it's not really fixable06:56
+perlDreamerIf you instanciate an object inside a version tag, then commit the object06:56
@preactioni've put enough logging info it's pouring out of my eyeballs and i can't find the exact piece of code causing a workflow activity to be created and the version tag and all assets gets destroyed, but the activity remains06:56
@preactionthe bug graham fixed last week might cause it, so i'll be putting that patch in06:57
+perlDreameryeah, it mucks things up if you purge a parent before a child now06:57
@preactionthey're getting upgraded to the first 7.5.0 beta as soon as it gets released, so there's that blessing (right now they're running a patched 7.4.13)06:57
@preactioni think there might also be a problem with trying to create a child while the parent is still in a pending state, but i could've swore i tried that one already06:58
+perlDreameris it a collab system?06:58
+perlDreamerif so, there's definitely a problem06:59
@preactioncustom application allowing users to post photos, stores those photos in a folder06:59
@preactionseems that most of the problems happen when the folder is created06:59
+perlDreamerif a child ever has to get getParent, it will puke06:59
+perlDreamergetParent can't find uncommitted parents06:59
@preactionthat... doesn't sound good06:59
+perlDreamerit's exactly what we found in the Gallery/Album tests07:00
@preactiongetParent should, imho, always get the parent. if there's no committed parent it should get the uncommitted one07:00
@preactionbut then, how could there be a committed child ... because i don't test for that before allowing children to be added to Gallery07:01
+perlDreamerso long as you don't access a method that calls getParent, you can do anything you like07:01
+perlDreamerI think all the containers should override and extend addChild to make sure of it07:02
+perlDreamerright now it's checked in the interface, but not the API07:02
nubahey guys, quick question: on the maps asset im generating some javascript which I'd think would be better if using a template instead of mixing perl code and many chunks of HEREDOCs or string concats..07:03
+perlDreamertemplating tends to be slow07:04
+perlDreamerhow about sprintf?07:04
nubathe thing is, if I create a template, chances are the users could delete it and break the asset07:04
@preactionthat's the chance you take with all assets07:05
@preactionTime Tracker, Project Manager, huge parts have javascript that unless copied perfectly will break07:06
@preactioni would suggest a snippet though, or if it's absolutely necessary for all asset functionality, a script in the Extras folder07:06
+perlDreamerbut I think it's variable, that's why he wants to template it07:06
@preactionyou could either include it yourself using session->http->setScript or have the template do it07:07
@preactionno way to make it an Object of some kind?07:07
+perlDreamernuba: for stuff like that I use sprintf with a heredoc.  It's the lightest weight template available in pure, core perl.07:07
nubai wanted to throw it in the headBlock of the template, just to figure out that headBlock isnt processed, just included as is in the head.07:08
@preactioni would offer up the Event www_edit method as an example of how that can go horribly horribly wrong07:08
@preactionput it on top of the markup in the Template area, or make it an object of some kind that you instanciate in the template part07:09
nubapersonally, i'm inclined to embed a template in a $javascript_template scalar, and process it07:09
nubapossibly with TT instead of HTML::Template if it starts to get more complicated. would that be ok?07:10
nubaor thats not the webgui way?07:10
@preactionno way to just write out some JSON? 07:10
+perlDreamerpreaction: I see what you mean.  But you're still using quoting and string concat vs a HEREDOC/sprintf07:10
nubawell if I write JSON then i'll move the complexity to javascript. 07:11
+perlDreamernuba: there's no "good" way to do it.  It's either slow or ugly.07:11
nubai'd rather keep it in perl07:11
nubaby complexity i mean the decisions of what javascript to run07:12
nubai'd rather decide at the perl code what javascript to create07:12
@preactionnot sure on the policy of TT v. HTML::Template. I hear rumors of moving to TT exclusively using an updated WebGUI::Asset::Template07:13
@preactionbut i don't know what'll happen to them07:13
@preactioni expect HTML::Template will remain the defacto standard for now07:13
nubai think i'll stick with heredocs for now07:13
nubabut thanks guys for the input07:13
+perlDreamerI heard rizen talk about the templating, too, preaction.  There's a HTML::Template dialect in TT now.07:16
@preactionperlDreamer, imma commit this, the test is commenting up07:16
@preactionyeah, that's what he was talking about i think07:16
+perlDreameralready committed07:16
@preactionoh k07:16
CIA-48WebGUI: colin * r5247 /WebGUI/t/lib/WebGUI/Test/ (Maker.pm Maker/Permission.pm): make Maker/Permission.pm handle TODO tests07:18
CIA-48WebGUI: colin * r5248 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Asset.t: convert the commented out code into TODOs07:18
nubalooks like $session->style->setRawHeadTags is my new friend..07:20
+perlDreamerit's good stuff07:23
+perlDreamerit even has a test suite07:23
CIA-48WebGUI: doug * r5249 /WebGUI/t/lib/WebGUI/Test/ (Maker.pm Maker/HTML.pm Maker/Permission.pm): fixed Test::Maker::HTML Level. added some comments for future generations07:33
CIA-48WebGUI: colin * r5250 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Asset.t: refine the one newByDynamicClass test07:48
+perlDreamernow if only I could get the related bug fixed with addAssetPrivilege, we could resolve the test and unTODO it07:51
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diakopterJT: you around?19:56
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CIA-20WebGUI: colin * r5251 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Gallery/Utility.pm: remove whitespace interfering with POD formatting22:18
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+Radix-wrkanyone about?08:01
+Radix-wrkI've got an old 6.8.10 webgui setup - can I download the latest wre and upgrade it using that to the latest?08:03
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AMH_bobHallo Diego,10:24
AMH_bobHeb je een link naar de opzet gemaakt voor de product catalogue?10:24
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BartJoldoes anyone knows what version of WebGUI is currently on the translation site? we plan to try to keep the Dutch translation up to date, but I can't find the version. Is it always the one most recent?10:37
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xdangershouldn't the read_limit be a little higher by default than 64Mb?12:20
BartJolmaybe someyhing to do with users that randomly uploading files12:23
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BartJolSame question as this morning (at least morning for me), is the WebGUI version on the translation server always the latest version?16:47
nubaBartJol: i believe whoever is working on any translation for webgui, is using the translation server17:05
BartJolwell, no\17:06
nubasince most people would prefer a web based interface than editing the source files, i guess17:06
BartJolArjan is working on a local machine17:06
BartJoland I'm not sure whether he commited the translation17:06
nubathe translation server also has the convenience of automatically keeping track of new strings as they're added to the releases17:06
BartJolI know17:07
nubawell in the early days you had to mail JT the translation to be imported there17:07
BartJolI remember from my first translation a couple of years ago17:07
BartJolbut, is the server always running the latest (stable) version?17:08
BartJolbut probably we will be using the PB translation server in the future17:11
nubaoh sorry i just  read you question again, i got it wrong17:11
nubai thought you asked if the translations at the translation server were always the latest ones17:11
nubayou were asking about the webgui version tho17:11
nubamy bad17:11
BartJolno sweat, thanks17:11
BartJolis the script I send you working?17:11
nubai didnt use it yet, im hacking other pressing things atm17:12
nubabut i'll have use for it, thanks for sending :)17:12
nubajust not while this deadlines are breathing in my neck :/17:13
BartJoloff course17:13
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wgGuest26i have a small problem at installation19:41
wgGuest26ca someone please helpme ?19:41
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wgGuest82someone can help me with a problem at installation please?19:44
nubawhats going wrong?19:50
wgGuest82hello nuba20:13
wgGuest82when i am runnig wreconsole.pl i am getting this message20:14
wgGuest82[root@localhost sbin]# /usr/bin/perl wreconsole.pl20:14
wgGuest82'jsonToObj' will be obsoleted. Please use 'from_json' instead. at /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.8/Config/JSON.pm line 13420:15
wgGuest82'jsonToObj' will be obsoleted. Please use 'from_json' instead. at wreconsole.pl line 102420:15
wgGuest82malformed JSON string, neither array, object, number, string or atom, at character offset 0 ["(end of string)"] at 20:15
@preactionwhy are you using your system's perl when you should be using the WRE's perl?20:31
wgGuest82i did not knew20:35
@preactionbest to do this: . /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment.sh <- note the space between the . and the /20:36
@preactionthen just "perl wreconsole.pl" or even just "wreconsole.pl"20:37
@preactionthe JSON that ships with the WRE should wokr20:37
wgGuest82one moment20:37
wgGuest82i try this now20:37
@preactionbut, if you could open up a new terminal, do a perldoc -l JSON, and let me know what the $VERSION is, I would appreciate it20:38
@preactionif they're going to deprecate something, we're going to need to prepare for it20:38
wgGuest821 sec please20:40
wgGuest82the version of perl is 5.8.8 and version of webgui si 0.8.120:42
@preactioni mean what version of the JSON module you were using that gave you that error20:44
@preactionalso, just to make sure, you're using the WRE 0.8.1, which probably downloaded WebGUI 7.4.1820:45
wgGuest82yes i am using wre 0.8.120:47
wgGuest82in the JSON.pm i found a variabile that states version=2.0420:48
wgGuest82i dont have much experience with perl modules20:48
wgGuest82perldoc -l JSON echo the path /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.8/JSON.pm20:50
wgGuest82perldoc -l JSON echo the path /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/JSON.pm20:50
@preactionnow open up that file and look for $VERSION21:02
wgGuest82i found $JSON::VERSION='2.04'21:04
@preactionthat works, thanks21:04
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perlDreamerto answer BartJol's question from this morning, I believe the translation server runs off of SVN HEAD, not the latest stable version.21:51
wgGuest82perldreamer can you help me with some problems at installation please21:56
perlDreamerwhat kind of problems are you having, wgGuest82?21:56
wgGuest82one moment please21:58
wgGuest82'jsonToObj' will be obsoleted. Please use 'from_json' instead. at /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.8/Config/JSON.pm line 13421:59
wgGuest82this is the error i getting22:00
perlDreamerAre you using the WRE?22:00
wgGuest82JSON is version 2.0422:00
wgGuest82perl is 5.8.822:00
wgGuest82i am running red hat with wre 0.8.122:00
perlDreamerthe WRE supplies its own JSON and perl and apache and mysql22:01
perlDreameryou must not be running it22:01
perlDreamerdid you run . setEnvironment from the WRE sbin directory?22:01
wgGuest82i don run apache or mysql22:01
perlDreamerwhat does perl -v report?22:01
perlDreameractually, hold on a sec22:02
perlDreamerhow can you run WebGUI without using apache or mysql?22:02
wgGuest82This is perl, v5.8.8 built for i38622:02
wgGuest82i am using apache22:03
wgGuest82i just dont have the service started22:03
perlDreamerwhat are you doing to produce the error message?22:04
wgGuest82perl wreconsole.pl22:04
wgGuest82after that localhost.localdomain:6083422:04
perlDreamerand you continue to get this error message after you do the . setEnvironment ?22:04
perlDreamerwhich shell are you using?22:05
wgGuest82after i run setenviroment.sh i run echo $? and it returns 022:06
perlDreamerplease do echo $PATH > myPath and paste it using the pastebin site in the title.  webgui.pastebin.com22:06
perlDreamerthen paste the URL here22:06
perlDreamerit's not possible that you run the setenvironment script and still point to an operating system perl library.22:07
nubabesides the jsonToObj warnings wgGuest82 is getting this too22:07
nubawgGuest82> malformed JSON string, neither array, object, number, string or atom, at character offset 0 ["(end of string)"] at22:07
nubalooks like a malformed json file to me22:07
wgGuest82hello nuba22:07
wgGuest82you're back22:08
nubayup. im always online on irc, even if im not at the computer, i leave the client connected here22:09
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nubajust found out this week's FLOSS is about YUI22:09
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nubaFLOSS Weekly 23: The Yahoo User Interface Library22:10
perlDreamerwgGuest82: your path is not being set by the setEnvironment script22:10
perlDreamerso it's still pointing to the system perl, not the WRE one22:11
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perlDreamerand hence your JSON warning about obsolence22:11
wgGuest82you are right22:11
wgGuest82how do i corect this22:11
perlDreamerI _think_ the setenvironment script is in /data/wre/sbin22:11
perlDreamerhead over there and see if I'm right22:12
perlDreamerI don't use the WRE myself22:12
wgGuest82yes it is there22:12
wgGuest82and from there i run it22:12
nubayou run it with . /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment22:13
perlDreamer. <space> setenvironment ?22:13
nubaits a dot, a space, then 22:13
perlDreameryeah, what nuba said22:13
wgGuest82i try again now22:13
nubait would be nice havin setenvironment setting a $WRE variable22:14
nubaso you could just ask people to paste here the output of echo $WRE22:14
nubaor maybe echo $SHELL $WRE22:16
perlDreamerI like it.  Make it an RFE and I'll see if I can implement it.22:16
wgGuest82guys thanks for the help22:16
wgGuest82it is working now22:17
wgGuest82i probably messed up something22:17
perlDreamerI'm guessing your earlier problem was not specifying the whole path to setenvironment22:17
perlDreamerbut in any case, I'm glad it's working for you now22:17
wgGuest82i run wreconsole.pl with the perl from wre22:17
wgGuest82thks for you help and patience22:17
wgGuest82have a good night22:18
nubayou too22:18
nubaoh also22:18
nubayou can change your nick with /nick mynewnick22:18
nubaso you can hang out here with a proper nick instead of wgGuestxx if you want22:18
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nubathere you go22:20
Bodaneli dont use irc channels so much22:20
@apeironAlthough if you're gonna do that, you may as well get a proper IRC client. :) irc.freenode.net, #webgui22:20
nubanext time a Bodanel joins here we may remember its you :)22:20
Bodanelil do that22:20
Bodanelyou will see me again22:21
Bodanelnow i am experimenting webgui22:21
Bodanelbye everybody22:21
nubahave fun22:21
@apeironCiao, have fun.22:21
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perlDreamerHe was very persistent.  That's a  good trait in new users23:10
@preactionas long as he learns / listens23:10
nubahe seemed thankful, and looking forward to come back as he goes experimenting23:20
nubait would be good if experimenters of today turned channel regulars of tomorrow :)23:20
@preactioni'm starting to think there needs to be a measure of critical installed mass to start upping the population here23:25
nubaworried it could turn all of us into 1st level of customer support ? :)23:27
nubathat can be scary :/23:27
@preactionnot really, we kinda are23:29
@preactionfor my purpose, in order to keep on top of what's going on in the WebGUI community, i read every board and post when it's appropriate23:30
@preactionusually when i notice something that could be wrong with WebGUI, such as the new JSON API that's going to cause problems unless we switch23:31
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--- Day changed Tue Jan 08 2008
Radix__woohoo.. my source build of the wre completed00:32
Radix__didn't think that was ever going to happen to be honest :)00:34
@preaction:p oh ye of little faith00:41
Radix__it kept on failing at GSSAPI00:46
Radix__it'd try and install Authen::SASL, which had a required module gssapi and it would always fail to install00:47
Radix__I found the right things to apt-get to get it working in the end00:47
@preactionwhat version of debian/ubuntu?00:48
Radix__still wouldn't build tho.. so ended up doing a full clean and rebuild and went to bed00:48
Radix__debian 4, etch00:48
@preactionmight want to post a build log to the dev list with the difficulties you went through00:48
CIA-20WebGUI: doug * r5252 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Added userDefined fields to GalleryAlbum assets. Modified Gallery::Utility to migrate userDefined fields from Threads to GalleryAlbums. Added tests for the previous.00:48
Radix__the prebuilt one didn't work.. wanted a specific version of glibc00:48
Radix__would it be worth packaging this one up as a binary for debian 4?00:49
perlDreamerpreaction: could you please add asset committing to the Gallery Utility test while your'e working on it?00:49
@preactionis that why the purgeRevision is failing?00:50
@preactionbetter question: is that a bug in purgeRevision?00:50
perlDreamerperhaps, but why get the working tag if you're not going to commit it?00:50
@preactionto isolate my changes and be able to roll them all back at the end00:51
perlDreamerthat won't isolate your changes since each addChild will get the current working tag anyway00:51
@preactionit also creates the working tag so that i have it to be able to roll it back without having to go look for it00:52
perlDreamerI didn't know that uncommitted tags could be rolled back00:52
perlDreamerI'll have to study the versioning code some more00:53
@preactionall a rollback does is purge all the assets in the version tag00:54
@preactionrather, all the revisions00:54
@preactionrevisions can be pending and still be purged00:54
perlDreamerI see00:55
perlDreamerbut then you're still stuck with getParent always failing00:55
@preactionis getParent versioning-aware? that might be a bug too00:56
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perlDreamerpreaction: my biggest frustration is always trying to figure out what is a bug in code, vs poorly written code.01:47
perlDreamerIn other words, who is wrong?01:47
perlDreamerOnly rizen can answer that question01:48
perlDreamersince he wrote it01:48
@preactioni tend to think about what I would want, i would want versioning to be a completely-working method to change as much as I want without pushing them to the live version until i'm satisfied01:49
@preactionno matter if i'm using code or actually editing it myself01:49
@preactionso to say, the "spirit" of the code, not the letter ;)01:49
perlDreamerIf rizen's cool with changing that, I'm perfectly cool with it too.  I just like passing test suites01:50
@preactioni'm more a fan of failing test suites, it exposes bugs ;)01:50
@preactioncorrect tests that fail ;)01:50
perlDreamerwell, if y'all have a weekly kind of meeting, maybe you could bring it up and talk it through01:51
perlDreamerif the API can change or be altered/fixed, then it should be done01:51
@preactionnot sure if those are API issues really, some parts of the Asset class just aren't very aware of versioning, and we're running into them a lot01:55
@preactioni can write something to the dev list about it01:55
@preaction... and after an hour of migrating content, i begin to worry that the script is just spinning its gears...01:58
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elninohi.  The help file system is very powerful with the i18n support and all, but my macros are really only useful to us. Is there a way I can write help files within WebGUI, without having to create a corresponding i18n file as well?02:01
perlDreameralthough the macro help has been pulled out of the core and put into the wiki instead02:01
perlDreameryou could take a similar approach02:01
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elninoso, my custom macros will no longer list automatically in the webgui help?02:03
perlDreamerit's been a while since i've worked in that system02:06
perlDreamerI think they'll list02:06
perlDreamerI don't think they link anymroe02:06
perlDreamerthat's as of 7.4, btw02:08
elninoThat's too bad, It was certainly convienent to see al the "help" in one place.  But Good to know before I spend all my time writing .pm help files.  Is there 02:08
elninoI'll look at the 7.4 readme/history to see if I can figure it out...02:08
@preactioni'm thinking about re-writing the Settings tab in order to (a) accomodate as much stuff from the .conf file as possible and (b) since there'll be a whole slew of new stuff, adding some search capabilities to make setting things easier02:13
@preactionyea or ney? it's a longer-term project, since the Report asset is first02:13
@preactionsomething like CompizConfig Settings Manager, with the tabs on the side and a searchbar thingy02:14
nubatwo thumbs here for moving things from .conf to Setting!02:16
nubathumbs up, that is02:16
@preactionin order to start up, though, the DSN, database user, and database password must remain in the config file, but those are unlikely to ever need changing, whereas installing assets requires changing config02:17
elninoThe only thing the change log says is that they removed the Table of Contents - which is where the macros help files were linked into. I suspect that there are people out there that have put in a lot of time customizing help, I'm surprised that this was removed? Was this a reqeust?02:18
@preactionit's a performance issue, i18n is loaded into memory, being Perl data structures02:18
@preactionwithout the i18n for the Help files, we cut something like 12M resident02:18
@preactioniirc. the IRC logs have the true answer02:19
elninoHmm. That makes sense> I guess I would have had it as an install option. But I'm glad I found out before writing a bunch of help files.02:19
elninore config: less config files more settings via the application I think is much easier. Sounds good to me.02:20
nubai like config files having just as little as required to boot02:21
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@preactionactually i'll have to look. i'm pretty sure preload.perl does some magic with the configured class names. that might have to change to use either Module::Pluggable or WebGUI::Pluggable02:22
@preactionwhich could increase the resident size, since all the classes in WebGUI::Form, WebGUI::Macro, WebGUI::Asset WebGUI::Workflow::Activity will be loaded at the get-go, no matter if any site is configured to use them02:23
perlDreamerpreaction: you might want to check the IRC archives for a discussion on that02:27
perlDreamerrizen hasn't been favorable about that in the past02:27
perlDreamersomething about the config being loaded on startup, where as settings are hit on every request02:28
@preactionhumph... sounds like a challenge to me ;)02:28
@preactionbut yes, that would be bad02:28
perlDreameryou know where the online archives are...02:29
nubaare the irclogs archived somewhere?02:29
perlDreamerjukka does it for us02:29
nubacool. i've got irssi on auto-logging, but of course that works only when im here :)02:30
@preactioni'll write something to download them and index them later :p02:32
@preactionwould it be prudent to make an Asset/api.t test that can be copy/pasted to make sure that all assets conform to the same API? perhaps an additional one for Wobjects?02:35
@preactiongod.. give me a week off and just see what explodes out of my head :P02:35
perlDreamerpreaction: I think the real answer is Test::Class02:36
perlDreamercopy and paste is bad02:36
perlDreamervery bad02:36
nubapreaction: wget -r to download, grep to search :)02:36
@preactionnuba, thanks02:36
@preactionperlDreamer, will investigate before i start writing this api test for my new Report interface02:37
nubagrep -i to make it case insensitive, and -C 10 to give you 10 lines beore and after each grep hit02:37
perlDreamerI'd love to see the Gallery tests refactored to reuse code, rather than copy and paste02:37
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KhaytsusI updated my WebGUI from 7.3.18 to 7.3.22, no problem.  Updated 7.3.22 to 7.4.19 and now when I restart httpd I get this:02:38
KhaytsusError loading WebGUI::Asset::Template::TemplateToolkit! - Can't locate Template.pm02:38
KhaytsusDidn't have any upgrade errors...  And I'm not finding anything on this error.  Any suggestions?  The website sorta shows, but doesn't load much beyond the main page content.02:38
@preactionKhaytsus, is Template installed?02:39
perlDreamerIt's probably coming through the config file, with TT as a plug-in02:39
KhaytsusIs it separate?  I'm really not sure02:39
KhaytsusLet me look at config02:39
@preactionTemplate is perl's Template Toolkit02:39
@preactionTT or TT202:40
KhaytsusHmm, let me check that02:40
KhaytsusTemplate::Toolkit ?02:40
@preactionperlDreamer, i like Test::Class. I like it a lot. it could compartmentalize our tests immensely (each test sub could create its own version tag and rollback after its done)02:40
@preactionKhaytsus, no. it's just Template02:41
perlDreamerbut think of the rewrite02:41
* perlDreamer shudders02:41
@preactionperlDreamer, admittedly, but if we can use it going forward02:41
perlDreamerI agree, but I won't have time myself to work on it until after the testing book chapter is written02:42
perlDreamerit would need a branch02:42
perlDreamer'cause we won't make 7.5 either02:42
@preactionand it's an ugly rewrite, but it doesn't have to be a rewrite really, they can co-exist until the Test::Class heirarchy covers enough02:42
Khaytsuspreaction: Okay I'm a moron, I'm not sure where to find that then..  cpan I'm coming up with a bunch of template related stuff, but.02:42
@preactionKhaytsus, try cpan Bundle-Template perhaps?02:42
@preactiondurno though02:42
@preactionyou don't need to install it02:43
@preactionunless you actually use it02:43
* perlDreamer heads home02:43
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KhaytsusOkay, let me peep in the config now02:43
KhaytsusAha, I found their website02:43
Khaytsusduh, just "install Template"02:43
@preactionyou can just remove the WebGUI::Asset::Template::TemplateToolkit from your Template Plugins section02:43
* Khaytsus hugs preaction 02:46
KhaytsusNothing in the config, but installing TT2 did it :D02:46
KhaytsusThank you!02:48
KhaytsusDo you happen to know one other question?  I had some collaboration systems set to 1 year archive, didn't really mean to..  Is there an *easy* way to find the articles, assuming I can't just search for them?  Ie:  I want to unarchive all of them.  I've searched Assets all over, they stashed anywhere together?02:48
@preactionthey're all in the database. they're in the same place, really, just have a different state02:50
@preactionsearch the wiki for "magic numbers"02:50
@preactionsorry, it's "status"02:50
KhaytsusI saw a reference to that, let me read it closer02:52
KhaytsusSo the most direct method is sql queries for status=archived ?02:55
@preactionotherwise, though i don't know what other consequences this might have, just update assetData set status=approved where status=archived02:55
@preactionif i'm not mistaken, the only thing that uses the archived status is the collab system02:56
@preactionstandard disclaimers apply03:01
Khaytsusyep, I'm umm..  attempting a select first..  sql is not a strength :)03:04
Khaytsusaha, got it03:04
Khaytsusselect title from assetData where status like 'archived';03:05
KhaytsusLooks safe03:05
Khaytsushmm, I see dups..  I wonder if it archives old versions03:07
@preactionprobably. not sure if the archive system is version-aware03:08
KhaytsusI'm reading the entries to see03:09
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Khaytsusaha yeah I can do selective updates with a title,revisionDate query03:13
KhaytsusYep, that worked.  I had to edit something else so it would let me commmit, then the 'fixed' threads are showing :)03:34
@preactionoh, since you did a raw DB edit, clear the cache by rm -rf /tmp/WebGUICache03:37
Khaytsusrestart httpd and/or spectre?03:38
KhaytsusHmm, why can't I find the "help" level..  It's extremely wordy right now in settings etc03:40
metanilhello everyone03:40
metanilwhat should i do if want to aggregate some articles and show it in new article page? .. is there any assets/tool available?03:40
@preactionlike from an RSS feed?03:48
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metanilactually i want to show them in my dashboard(asset).03:53
@preactioni think you'd need to make a Syndicated Content asset, and then you can make that available to the dashboard03:54
@preactionbut i'm not an expert on the dashboard at all03:54
@preactionif there's not one already, it would be a good idea to write a tutorial on the WebGUI wiki on adding content widgets to the dashboard.03:54
+Radix-wrkyay.. I got my new WRE/WebGUI install working :)03:55
@preactionis it just me, or is this channel been unusually active since the new year?03:56
+Radix-wrknow to recreate the content I had before (couldn't be bothered upgrading as only had a few pages and it was still using 6.8.10)03:56
metanilSo currently we don't have syndicated content asset.. right?04:05
@preactionmetanil, what do you mean? There's a Syndicated Content asset04:06
@preactionnot sure if it's allowed in dashboards04:06
+Radix-wrkyeah, you can use it in dashboards04:07
+Radix-wrkI use it at work to get the weather info on our intranet dashboard04:07
@preactiondashboard is a crazy-powerful piece of worksmanship that needs to start coming into its own. i wonder how many people actually use it04:07
@preactionsounds like a good poll for WebGUI.org04:08
+Radix-wrkI didn't really get a feel for how to use the dashboard until I went to the WUC and someone mentioned it04:10
+Radix-wrkit's an unusual, but very cool asset04:11
metaniloops.. it was only available after logging using admin user04:11
@preactionthat's probably a ui level issue04:12
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metanili think the URL to RSS should be pointed to something which return RSS .. right?04:27
@preactionhover over the label for "URL to RSS", it should pop-up a little help box04:27
metanilyes.. i did it. and rss site will return like charm.04:28
metanilbut nothing showed up if pointed to some articles. 04:28
metanili mean articles(assets) of webgui04:28
@preactionso it's not an RSS feed at all04:31
@preactionyou might be able to make a shortcut to the page, or make shortcuts to those assets, or something of that nature04:31
metanillike link?04:31
@preactionno, Shortcut04:32
@preactiona Shortcut asset04:32
@preactiona Redirect asset is more like a link. a Shortcut allows you to do fun things04:32
@preactionlike override templates, content, title, url, groups, etc...04:32
metanilbut i don't see any assets that called something "shortcut"..04:33
metanilBTW, i'm quite new to webgui 04:33
@preactioni know. you might be interested in buying some of the books that plainblack offers, as this place is not really to be used for people learning how to do things in WebGUI04:34
@preactionah, you have to click on the More link in the asset manager to get Create Shortcut04:34
@preactionthen you can move that shortcut where you want it04:35
@preactionit's not going to be an aggragate, unless you shortcut the page (then it'll get the page, which gets all the articles on the page)04:36
@preactionconsequently, you might prefer to use a Collaboration System just so you can get the RSS feed it produces04:36
@preaction(instead of Articles)04:36
metanili'm looking at shortcut.. 04:40
metanilits cool!04:40
@preactionit's crazy. there are some seriously awesome things you can do with them04:42
@preactionand they work great with dashboards04:42
metanilya.. but the i have to do aggregation manually to each articles description.04:45
metanili cannot automate it.. so i think if i change the source code for description in shortcut asset, then it will work.04:46
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metanilbtw, when i log out and then log in why it tries remain in same page (rather than home page)?04:56
@preactionbecause that's how it works. it's more convenient imho04:58
@preactionyou can change that, but i forget how04:58
@preactionsomething like returnUrl or proceed04:58
@preactionprobably returnUrl04:58
+Radix-wrkHmm.. if I have the wre/webgui on 80/81 - and I have another apache server running a couple of static html/php websites on port 82/83/84/85 etc.. what's the best way to add them to the wre modproxy setup without breaking any of the wre addsite functionality?05:08
@preactioncreating new "sitename.modproxy" with <VirtualHost> blocks?05:09
@preactionshouldn't interfere with addsite05:09
+Radix-wrkyeah?  okay.. that'd do it then05:09
@preactioni'd advise against adding anything to httpd.modproxy.conf05:09
+Radix-wrkyeah, was thinking the same05:09
@preactionsince i think that can be overwritten by the wreconsole.pl script05:09
+Radix-wrkwasn't sure what the best way to do it was tho :)05:09
@preactiondunno if wreconsole does things intelligently. i think httpd.modproxy.conf is just a processed template output now05:10
+Radix-wrkcheers doug05:11
@preactionthough you might want to not try to make a new site using the addsite script with the same name as one of the site you're adding manually05:11
+Radix-wrkyah, that'd be silly :)05:12
@preactionthe old wre 0.7 would cheerfully overwrite everything05:12
@preactioni don't know if the new WRE 0.8 changed that05:12
metanilreturnUrl is macro?05:29
@preactionno, it's a url parameter05:29
metanilany example.. actually url parameter has to be some value.05:37
metanili searched both wiki and forum.. but couldn't get results.05:38
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@preactionthe url parameter is named "returnUrl", and again, i'm not sure05:41
@preactionthe value would be the url you want them returned to05:41
metanilhmm.. i think both proceed and returnUrl is not working.. .. its showing same page.05:44
@preactionnot sure it's supposed to work when logging out, but i'm pretty sure it works when logging in05:45
metanilhmm.. lets try then.05:46
@preactionsorry, it's "redirectAfterLogin"05:46
metanilo o.. 05:47
metanilit should be parameter while login in  right?05:47
metanilnot while logging out.05:47
@preactiondunno if any of it works. looks like it's a session scratch, not really a url parameter.05:48
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metanilhttp://webgui.pastebin.com/d48841d30 is the code which makes redirection after login .. right?08:09
@preactionyes. it gets the session scratch variable08:10
metanilso if i don't want redirection (or redirection to only one page) we need to modify this file OR is there exists a same thing from webgui admin console.08:20
@preactionyou can set the appropriate scratch variable if you want08:21
@preactioni'd suggest making a macro that would set the scratch variable08:22
@preactionmodifications to that file would need to be maintained through upgrades, which could get annoying08:22
@preactionyou could even make a simple, stupid macro called SetScratch that would take a scratch name and set the value. post it onto an RFE and i could probably get it into WebGUI core08:27
@preactionor, at least, draw the developers' attention to the fact that there's no easy way to redirect after login08:28
metanilhmm.. first i'll try it by myself.08:32
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metanilis the webgui configuration file is /data/WebGUI/etc/WebGUI.conf.original?09:07
@preactionno, that's the original one. there should be something in there like www.example.com.conf09:07
@preactionwith your site name09:07
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metanili did http://webgui.pastebin.com/d38e39cd but its still not working.09:42
metanili did this through macro09:42
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metanilit now worked!!09:52
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BartJolmaybe you know11:47
@preactionoh i expect i might11:48
BartJoldo you know the policy of the version management on the translation server11:48
BartJolwhen it is replaced11:48
BartJolwhat version it is currently11:48
@preactionit's taken out of SVN HEAD11:49
@preactionfrom what i understand11:49
@preactionmaybe it's current beta / testing11:49
@preactionyeah, that sounds more accurate, current beta / testing11:49
BartJolah, mmm11:49
@preactionit's running on plainblack.com11:49
@preactionlet me finish this ugly SQL statement and i'll check for real11:50
BartJolit also might be usefull to have a banner "currently we are translating WebGUI version x.x.x" you don't see the version even in the html or the exported tar11:52
BartJolor maybe you can, I'm quite stupid you know11:52
@preactionwriting an SQL query that can extract text from HTML is not fun. but it's even worse when the HTML is not well-formed or valid...11:53
BartJolis that why you are up so late?11:53
BartJolor are you watching the pre-elections?11:54
@preactionthat's why i'm up so late11:54
BartJolcan imagine11:54
@preaction12 hours watching a long migration script run multiple times to fix bugs, and now a couple hours fixing bugs in a different client's SQLReports that I wrote to make RSS feeds11:55
@preactionlesson learned number 1) Don't force SQLReports into doing things it can't handle11:55
@preaction2) Don't let anyone tell you "We only want this." They don't know it yet, but they want more.11:55
BartJolsound familiar11:55
BartJolespecially #211:56
@preactioncan't go back now though, the original spec was for something that wouldn't even do what this SQLReport does :(11:56
BartJolbut does it have to extract from html documents or from generated html?11:59
BartJolnot that i can help you with this... sorry11:59
BartJoljust moral support: those bastard customers!12:00
@preactionit extracts from html that's copy/pasted into an HTMLArea, i could've swore i cleaned it up some, since there were already problems with bad markup, but apparently not enough12:02
@preactionbut no parser that i know of can make bad html into well-formed html12:02
@preactionanyway, the i18n editor pulls from /data/WebGUI, so it's the same webgui that plainblack.com is running12:03
@preactionthat's where the template comes from, the files are saved outside of that and then committed to SVN12:03
BartJolah, ok, that's nice to know12:03
BartJolso each upgrade of plainblack also updates the translation server12:04
BartJolis there a possibilty that we can get a notification before pb.com is upgraded?12:04
@preactionin essence, yes. there will be new variables to edit, if any12:05
@preactionpb.com is upgraded immediately before every WebGUI release12:05
@preactionso if you know when the release is, you know when pb.com is being updated12:05
BartJolah, just keep checking the forum, irc aand website12:06
@preactionor use your RSS reader to subscribe to the plainblack.com newsfeed, or the webgui.org newsfeed12:06
BartJolah, that might be wise12:07
BartJolgood luck with the sql rreport12:09
BartJoland don't forget to sleep12:09
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perlmonkey2Were any webgui sites effected by this weekends injection attacks (I would assume no)?16:51
bartjolnot as far as I know, everything seems to be ok here16:56
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perlDreamerrizen: the problem is that there aren't enough whackos19:35
@rizenare you referring to tbb?19:35
@rizenwell if all whackos are as good as you, i'll take 10,000 please19:36
perlDreamerI'm an off-the-curve whacko19:37
perlDreamerfew are as whacked as me19:37
perlDreamerexcept for you19:37
@rizenevery time i think about contributors i think, how do i get more colins19:39
perlDreamertuba playing church webmaster perl bigots are rare19:41
perlDreamerespecially chip designers who have crappy jobs with lots of spare time for daytime hackery19:43
@rizenso true19:44
@rizenmaybe there are others where you work19:44
perlDreamerWell, there's a python bigot across the hall19:44
perlDreamerAnd one guy who builds cars from scratch19:44
perlDreamer(not at work)19:44
@rizeni could send you some t-shirts, gooeys, and wg stickers so you can start a covert webgui contributors group where you work19:44
@rizenthey don't have to be coders19:44
perlDreamerI'll start with Tim and Peter!19:45
@rizenarticle writers, template designers, documentation writers, etc are all welcome19:45
@rizenmust go get food now19:45
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perlDreamerI don't know man19:46
perlDreamerEating is the number one contributor to obesity19:46
perlDreamerCauses gas19:47
perlDreamerThink of how your water bill would shrink if you could throw away that toilet19:47
perlDreamermedical studies have shown that a lower metabolism (caused by reduced food intake) extends life19:47
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perlmonkey2Yay, all I have to do is ad  a method for the drag and drop reorder of questions and the questions should be mostly done in the survey.  Then cut and paste a lot of code for the questions.  Do the survey load and survey save.  And then I'm mostly done with the survey edit part of the project.  And since the WebGUI and survey display should be more like normal CGI dev, it shoudl go fast.  Maybe by Friday this thing can be in Alpa :D20:10
perlDreamerpeople won't ever run a test suite on a production database, right?20:10
perlmonkey2/for the questions/for the answer types/20:10
* perlDreamer goes to the gym21:14
nubaperlmonkey2: eating less, working out.. jeesh!21:22
nubaoops, that was for perlDreamer 21:22
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perlmonkey2yeah, I do the opposite.21:22
nubayeah, eating out, working less, sounds much better ;)21:34
perlDreamerworks for me :)22:27
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perlDreamerI love Test::Deep22:56
nubadeep love?22:57
perlDreamerdeep test love22:58
perlDreamerIt provides a way to check that an element in a data structure is a number along with a fudge factor22:58
perlDreamerso that it makes it easy to compare times22:58
CIA-20WebGUI: colin * r5253 /WebGUI/ (lib/WebGUI/Session/Id.pm t/Session/Id.t): 23:03
CIA-20WebGUI: Add a method that returns the regexp used to validate generated GUIDs. This should23:03
CIA-20WebGUI: prevent the regexp from proliferating all through tests and code.23:03
CIA-20WebGUI: Also, add a test for the method, which just checks that it returns a regexp.23:03
perlDreamerpreaction: Hey buddy, got your ears on?  What's your 10-20?23:04
perlDreamerI've been looking at PassiveProfiling and wondering how bad the impact would be of using getLineage instead of the SQL query in addPage23:06
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perlDreamerwgGuest89: what's up?23:11
@rizenperlDreamer, don't make the switch23:18
@rizenit will be worse23:18
perlDreamerI've been reading WGBP and thinking a lot about encapsulation and DRY23:20
* perlDreamer solemnly swears not to let the air out of wG's tires.23:21
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wgGuest11Hello everyone23:24
perlDreamerwgGuest11: Hello23:24
perlDreamerDo you have a question to ask23:24
wgGuest11I do23:25
perlDreamerWell, let's have it, man!23:25
perlDreamerDon't be shy23:25
perlDreamerSail it on out here.23:25
wgGuest11For some reason typing from IE it's extremely slow, so please bare with me23:25
wgGuest11In our company, we have users authenticating via NT domain.  Can NT authentication be added to WebGUI 0.8.0?23:28
perlDreamerYes, but it would take a custom Authentication plugin23:28
perlDreamerAlso, WebGUI is at version 7.4.xx, the WRE is at 0.8.0 (and currently at 0.8.1)23:29
wgGuest11you can tell I'm new to this23:31
perlDreamerIt's not a problem.23:31
perlDreamerWe were all new at one point23:31
wgGuest11Is there any custom plugin created? That you know of.  I thought I saw something about that on the forum but for version 623:32
@rizenversion 5 had one23:32
@rizencalled SMB auth23:32
@rizenbut it would need to be rewritten23:32
@rizento match the 7.x auth system23:32
@rizenit used to be included in webgui, but everyone ditched NT domains for active directory domains a long time ago, so we got rid of the module23:33
perlDreamerwell, almost everyone :)23:33
wgGuest11What can you suggest I do?  I not a programmer.  Experts-exchange? :)23:34
@rizenhire plain black to make it23:35
@rizenexperts exchange likely won't help you becaue they aren't familiar with webgui23:35
@rizenyou need to hire a webgui specialist23:35
@rizenperlDreamer consulting might be able to help you out too23:36
perlDreamerI've heard that perlDreamer consulting is booked up through mid February with Commerce and Book work23:36
perlDreamerbesides, Plain Black knows the Auth stuff inside and out23:40
wgGuest11Do you any idea how much something like that would cost?23:57
--- Day changed Wed Jan 09 2008
* perlmonkey2 thinks .oO(If you have to ask)00:00
nubamaybe an arm, maybe an arm and a leg, you'll have to ask 'em00:02
wgGuest11"maybe an arm, maybe an arm and a leg, you'll have to ask 'em " Don't scare me please.  00:04
perlDreamerwgGuest11: it would take a while to look at, but offhand/unofficially/don't quote me I would say it would be several k$ as an outer bound.00:08
nubamyself, i can ensure you, and you can quote me on that, that zero dollars will certainly be a lower bound :)00:09
wgGuest112 , 3 , 4?  I just need to have an idea if it's worthless or if I should wait until we migrate to AD.  Also, can LDAP be used with NT?  Maybe using OpenLDAP?00:09
nubai think there's no chance they'll ask for less than zero dollars 00:10
wgGuest11"or less than zero dollars "  ????00:10
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nubasorry im feeling a bit comic today. thats what happens when mathematicians act funny.00:10
wgGuest11don't confuse me more. As a latino, I'm already confused enough.00:11
nubacool, where are you from?00:12
nubaim from Brazil, but I wouldn't say we are inherently confused00:13
wgGuest11PR but live in FL00:13
wgGuest11I know nuba... :) 00:14
nubaso, wgGuest11, this channel is mostly a hangout place for people in the webgui community,00:15
nubasome plainblack staffers are around, but im not sure this is the best place to get a quote from them00:15
nubaif none of them replies, your best bet is calling them or sending an email, contacts should be easy to find at the website00:17
perlmonkey2If I weren't so busy, I would offer to do it for 1 million dollars.00:18
wgGuest11you are mean00:19
perlmonkey2Just betting, I'd say somewhere between 2-4$00:19
wgGuest11I was just trying to get a freebie :)  I noticed there was something already created for version 6 and I figured why not to ask.00:19
wgGuest11Can anyone suggest a good starting point to learn Perl?00:20
@preactionperlbot learn perl00:21
perlDreamergo Haarg!00:22
perlDreamerHe's famous now.00:22
wgGuest11perlbot learn perl, a book?00:24
wgGuest11never mind00:24
perlDreamerLearning Perl, by Randal Schwartz is a good book to use to learn perl00:24
wgGuest11how about the blackpearl00:25
perlDreamerI've heard that's good, too, but unless you're a programmer, you may want to start down a notch or two.00:25
@preactionthe perl black book is what JT always recommends, but I prefer Learning Perl and Beginning Perl00:25
@preactionLearning Perl is for those who know how to program and want to learn how to do it in Perl. Beginning Perl is for those who don't know how to program00:26
@preactionBP taught me how to program, for that matter00:26
wgGuest11I started school in Computer Science and then moved to Networking.  I know basic of C++, VB .net00:27
nubayou can throw in Mastering Algorithms in Perl, too, if you want to increase the computer science content of your perl studies00:28
@preactionif you know programming concepts already, Learning Perl and Programming Perl (the llama and the camel) are probably your best bets00:28
wgGuest11Cool, guys, thanks a whole lot for your help.  Take it easy00:29
nubatalking about books, anyone reading MJD's Higher Order Perl?00:30
perlmonkey2nuba: Actually that reminds me.  I ordered that like a month ago and it never showed up00:30
wgGuest11need books, www.ebookee.com :)00:30
nubai've just started on it and its good so far00:30
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perlmonkey2The new surveys will be made up of sections of questions.  Can anyone think of any options a section shoudl have besides randomizing the questions it contains?  00:36
@preactionrequired / optional?00:36
@preaction(just brainstorming here, up to you of course)00:37
perlmonkey2the qeuestions themselves have optional options.....I wonder if that should be settable in the section to make it global....I like it.00:37
@preactionprobably need a "description"00:37
perlmonkey2not sure what to do about timed......00:37
@preactionyeah, timed might be far more trouble than its worth00:37
perlmonkey2I have a header text, which will all a text to come before a new set of questions.  you can have empty sections to have a page just of text seperating questions.00:38
@preactionit'd need a JS timer that would submit with the questions00:38
perlmonkey2preaction: perhaps a little simpler?  Just have the timestamp of when the survey was opened and compare the the latest question submission.  If time has run out, post "so sorry", if time has not ran out, post normally but with the "time left" data posted for the JS to display.00:39
perlmonkey2But that might be a survey wide attribute rather than sections.....but I like the way you're thinking.00:40
@preactionright, but then you run into the problem where they don't get to submit what they've completed00:40
@rizenpm2 the second option is probably better00:40
@rizenand can't be cheated00:40
@preactiona la standardized testing00:40
@rizensections might have section pointers00:40
@preactioni suppose a message, or a periodic submit after questions. perhaps "timer" should be a global thing00:40
@rizenlike after you've completed this section, what section do you go to next00:41
@preactionsave your progress every once in a while00:41
perlmonkey2sections will go in order, but question answers can be dragged onto questions in other sections.  So you can have three questions in S1 that go to S2, S3, S4, depending on the answer.00:41
@rizenpeople seem to like colors too00:41
@rizenmaybe sections should have a color00:42
@rizeni have no idea why or how you'd apply that00:42
@rizensorry, just spewing nonsense00:42
perlmonkey2I mean three answers in S1Q1 so S1Q1A1 goes to S1 etc.00:42
@rizeni'll stop now00:42
perlmonkey2I like the color idea....in the edit screen was going to make sections a different colored bar in the questions div.00:42
perlmonkey2http://www.lostokies.com:81/tree.html only new question does anything for now.  00:43
perlmonkey2also, something is wrong with it in opera....haven't diagnosed.00:43
perlmonkey2rizen: I'll really need your graphics guy.  I keep moving the buttons around but can't find a layout I like.00:46
@rizenhe's back from vacation00:46
@rizendid you email him?00:46
perlmonkey2The questions div could grow to hundreds in size.  Answers will probably have an upper bound of 20.  So there could be a situation where a person has to scroll waaay down to click on a question to edit, then scroll waaay back up to edit it in the edit box.  00:47
perlmonkey2That will be party solved by sections being clickable so that they hide all the questions in them.00:47
perlmonkey2not yet.00:47
perlmonkey2but I will tonight00:47
@rizennice fix00:50
@rizeni like that, the closing sections thing00:50
perlmonkey2rizen: Sorry, work.  01:23
perlmonkey2but yes, I hated the idea of hundreds of questions scrolling down forever, so the "tree"-ish sections idea pretty much solves it.01:24
perlmonkey2rizen: I'll email your guy when I get home (I don't use my personal email at work).01:25
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nubaany recommendations for javascript debugging? besides firebug..02:02
@apeironnuba, I've been using Firebug in tandem with the Web Developer plugin.02:03
@apeironAlthough I imagine someone else here probably has a better suggestion. :)02:03
nubaim using both here too02:06
nubathx anyway, lets see if someone else posts something else..02:11
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cap10morgan_in the 0.8.0 addsite script, when it calls $site->create(), it sends parameters named "siteDatabaseUser" and "siteDatabasePassword" but then the create sub looks for params named "databaseUser" and "databasePassword". Is it changing the name somewhere or am I looking at the wrong thing?02:29
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perlDreamerI'm looking at the SVN version, and it's exactly the same there02:44
perlDreamerI'd say it's a bug02:44
perlDreamergood catch!02:44
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cap10morgan_ah, i see :)02:46
CIA-20WebGUI: colin * r5254 /WebGUI/t/PassiveProfiling.t: beginning to write tests for PassiveProfiling. This is so I can learn how to test Asset->logView02:48
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metanilthe name of the template is "style 03" with URL "style_03" .. but the body is referencing "style3/*****.jpg"..07:11
metanilwhere is folder "style3".. how can i change that jpg file?07:11
+perlDreamerthere may not be a folder with that url07:11
+perlDreamerremember, in WebGUI URLs are decoupled from physical organization07:12
+perlDreamerso then you ask, "Well, how am I supposed to find it?"07:12
metanilyes exactly07:12
+perlDreamerin admin mode, if you go to that URL, you should get an editing bar for the image, or the edit form07:12
+perlDreameralso, changing default wG components isn't recommended, since an upgrade could undo your work07:13
+perlDreamerit's probably better to make a copy and work on that instead07:13
@preactionbut then he has to change every asset to use his new style07:13
metanilcopy means creating another template right?07:13
metanilyes i did that. 07:14
metanilthats why.. the new template is referecing the old image. 07:14
+perlDreamerpreaction: what's the name of that thing that lets people edit assets hierarchically?07:14
metanilwhat should be name of new 'style3/***.jpg'?07:14
+perlDreameranything you want07:14
metanilas style3 will reference to old want..07:15
@preactionEdit Tree, or Edit Branch or something07:15
+perlDreameryeah, that's it07:15
@preactionthere's also a nice wiki article on how to do just about everything to create your own style07:15
+perlDreamerthanks, my brain is shot tonight07:15
@preactioneh, i'm working on 16-hour-day number 207:15
+perlDreamerI did something like that once, 16 hour days, 7 days/week for 3 months07:16
@preaction8 doing normal work and 8 doing things that will make my normal work easier and more efficient07:16
+perlDreamerIt was nuts07:16
@preactionjeesus. i couldn't manage that for more than 3 weeks07:16
+perlDreamerIt's a little easier with a wife, aside from not seeing her and my boys, since she can do laundry and cook food07:17
+perlDreamerbut we vowed to never do that again07:17
+perlDreamerso take it easy on yourself07:17
@preactionah, remind me to get my live-in girlfriend to start doing her fair share ;)07:18
+perlDreamerotherwise, I'll have to come out to Wisconsin and chew you out07:18
@preactionyou'll like what i'm making, trust me07:18
+perlDreamerI'm patient, I can wait a few more days for it07:18
@preactionoh, btw, did you want your own branch? for anything?07:18
+perlDreamernot right now07:18
+perlDreamerI'm pretty tied up with writing a book chapter07:18
@preactionfrank gave me next week off to do my last one, thank vishnu07:19
+perlDreamertake advantage of it ;)07:19
@preactionoh i will, it's a chapter on writing Assets, so i expect it'll take the whole week07:20
metanili got it.. thanks guys.. 07:20
+perlDreamernp, metanil07:21
metanilactually my brain was also shot tonight :D07:21
@preactionnp, good luck07:21
+perlDreamertime for the board of woe07:22
+perlDreamerbe back in 1507:22
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Bodanelsomeone present ?09:49
metanileverybody's here... 09:50
Bodaneli have a small problem09:50
Bodanelif i forgot about mysql configuration file my.cf and mysql dont start how can i fix the problem09:51
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+MrHairgreasehey bart!14:23
+Radix_evenin martin, bart14:37
BartJolafternoon Jesse14:37
+Radix_been ice skating lately?14:38
BartJolnope, but Martin has been skiing14:38
+Radix_Dutch guy from my work went back home for christmas and said he got to ice skate - was pretty cool he said.14:39
BartJolyeah, it was possible, but I was busy doing notthing14:39
+Radix_I miss the beers from delft - managed to get a bottle of Weinerstephan Krystal here, but it's not the same as what it was like when i had it with you guys14:42
BartJolwell, you're always welcome14:42
BartJolor otherwise maybe at the WUC14:43
+Radix_yeah, but a bit of a long way to travel for a beer :)14:43
+MrHairgreasehey radix14:44
+MrHairgreasehow are you?14:44
+MrHairgreasemiss the netherlands already?14:44
+MrHairgreasethan have two beers14:45
+MrHairgreasehalves the travel/beer ratio14:45
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BodanelHello all15:07
Bodanelcan someone please help me with something15:07
BartJoldepends on the problem15:07
Bodanelone of my collegues installed wre  0.8.1 but forgot to remove my.cnf file for sql15:08
Bodaneland now sql dont start15:08
Bodaneli dont know how to fix this15:08
Bodanelmay you help me BartJol?15:09
BartJolah, sorry I'm learning right know about installing15:09
+MrHairgreasetry to remove (or rename) the my.cnf15:09
+MrHairgreaseand run the setup again15:09
+MrHairgreasei guess that'll do it15:09
+MrHairgreaseif not15:09
Bodanelyes ?15:09
+MrHairgreasejust in stall the wre again15:09
Bodanelbut how i undo the modications that wre already did to my system?15:10
Bodanelor this modifications dont matter?15:10
+MrHairgreaseeverything the wre installs is under /data15:11
Bodanelso i remove the /data directory15:11
+MrHairgreaseso if you want to completely reinstall just remove everything under it.15:11
+MrHairgreaseand extract the tra ball again15:11
Bodanelil try15:12
+MrHairgreasei reckon you don't have any live sites in there right?15:12
+MrHairgreasethan that must work15:12
Bodaneli found ou about webgui last week15:12
Bodaneland now i am in process of testing15:12
+MrHairgreasebut i guess just running setup again will do the trick too15:12
+MrHairgreaseyou can run setup by starting the wre console15:13
+MrHairgreaseand then goin to the localhost:60???/setup url that's in the docs15:13
+MrHairgreasedunno the port number by hart15:13
Bodanel :D15:13
Bodanelil try just to run the setup and if this does not work il try to remove /data directory15:14
+MrHairgreasejust follow the install doc15:14
Bodanelthks for your help15:14
+MrHairgreaseworked fine for me 15:14
Bodaneland  for me15:15
Bodanelbut this installation was not done by me15:15
Bodanelit was one of our web developers15:15
Bodaneland he does not know linux so much15:16
+MrHairgreasehe should =)15:16
Bodanelit is an old fashion guy15:16
+MrHairgreaseyou mean he only knows vms?15:16
Bodanelhe started working in it when windows 3.11 was a state of the art15:17
Bodaneland since then he worked only on windows15:17
Bodanelthe systems with linux were installed by the admin who was here before me15:18
Bodanelthks agian15:18
Bodaneli am going back to work now15:18
+MrHairgreasegood luck15:19
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+Radix_Hey Martin - yeah, I miss the netherlands already - was one of my favourite spots that I visited on that trip - mostly because it was so relaxed and easy going and you guys made me feel so welcome :)15:37
+Radix_As for how I am.. I'm good.. Yumi's looking at buying a house at the moment - so we're pretty excited about that.15:38
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perlmonkey2Hmm, this is very interesting: http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/Making-Money-With-Open-Source-Part-1-Turning-Users-Into-Buyers-61083.html16:43
perlmonkey2Seems like PB already knwos this.16:43
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CIA-20WebGUI: doug * r5255 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fixes for Gallery and Gallery Utility17:10
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CIA-20WebGUI: doug * r5255 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fixes for Gallery and Gallery Utility17:48
CIA-20WebGUI: doug * r5255 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fixes for Gallery and Gallery Utility18:03
CIA-20WebGUI: graham * r5256 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Keyword.pm): fix: Tag cloud was limited to 50 least commonly used tags18:03
CIA-20WebGUI: graham * r5257 / (3 files in 3 dirs): 18:03
CIA-20WebGUI: Merged revisions 5256 via svnmerge from18:03
CIA-20WebGUI: https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/branch/WebGUI_7.418:03
CIA-20WebGUI: ........18:03
CIA-20WebGUI:  r5256 | graham | 2008-01-09 05:43:02 -0600 (Wed, 09 Jan 2008) | 1 line18:03
CIA-20WebGUI:  fix: Tag cloud was limited to 50 least commonly used tags18:03
CIA-20WebGUI: ........18:03
CIA-20WebGUI: doug * r5258 /branch/doug-experimental/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Nightly checkin because you forgot18:03
CIA-20WebGUI: graham * r5259 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm): Use UTF8 for database connection when connecting to MySQL18:03
CIA-20WebGUI: graham * r5260 / (3 files in 3 dirs): 18:03
CIA-20WebGUI: Merged revisions 5259 via svnmerge from18:04
CIA-20WebGUI: https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/branch/WebGUI_7.418:04
CIA-20WebGUI: ........18:04
CIA-20WebGUI:  r5259 | graham | 2008-01-09 06:35:57 -0600 (Wed, 09 Jan 2008) | 1 line18:04
CIA-20WebGUI:  Use UTF8 for database connection when connecting to MySQL18:04
CIA-20WebGUI: ........18:04
CIA-20WebGUI: graham * r5261 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/docs/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fix: Calendar Edit template refers to non-existant and other unneeded javascript files18:04
CIA-20WebGUI: graham * r5262 / (4 files in 4 dirs): 18:04
CIA-20WebGUI: Merged revisions 5261 via svnmerge from18:04
CIA-20WebGUI: https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/branch/WebGUI_7.418:04
CIA-20WebGUI: ........18:04
CIA-20WebGUI:  r5261 | graham | 2008-01-09 07:55:49 -0600 (Wed, 09 Jan 2008) | 1 line18:04
CIA-20WebGUI:  fix: Calendar Edit template refers to non-existant and other unneeded javascript files18:04
CIA-20WebGUI: ........18:04
@rizenquick poll for whomever is listening18:42
@rizenas i design the commerce system the thing that keeps hitting me over and over again is that i either need to store what currency or unit of measurement each monetary unit or weight is entered using18:43
@rizenor i have to assume that the store, will always use the same weight unit or currency type through-out the store, and that way i don't have to keep track of it18:44
@rizeni think the later is the better approach simply because it makes it compatible with any available currency or weight type18:44
@rizenand perhaps more importantly, there's no unit conversion that has to be done (on the fly currency conversion is not easy or cheap to do properly18:45
@rizenso my question is: a) store units of measurement, b) assume units of measurement to be uniform store-wide18:46
nubai like a) better18:49
nubahow's it re: currency conversion rates, do you have a feed service from somewhere?18:51
@rizencurrency conversion rates would require that the store owner purchase a feed from somewhere18:53
@rizenand i'd have to then find some feeds available for purchase and add them into the store18:53
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perlmonkey2rizen: I think there are free feeds18:56
perlmonkey2rizen: Google is probably up to date for most merchants.18:56
perlmonkey2Just depends on how badarse you want the commerce system.  B is probably good enough for 90%18:57
@rizenif i can get it at all from google, it won't be a live feed, and there will be a per day transaction limit, and the user will still have to register for a google key18:57
@rizenmy goal is to make it as streamlined as possible for a user to set up a store18:57
@rizenfill out one form and you get your merchant account automatically registered and you're ready to sell18:58
@rizenif i add in all this other bs, then it takes out the streamlining18:58
perlmonkey2rizen: I agree with you.19:00
perlmonkey2the currency could be a plugin?19:00
perlmonkey2version 2.019:00
perlmonkey2I like the agile programming guideline of setting a minimum spec and getting it out th edoor, then adding to it as needed.  But best to get something out the door first.19:01
nubaanother one http://www.webservicex.net/CurrencyConvertor.asmx/ConversionRate?FromCurrency=EUR&ToCurrency=USD19:02
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@rizenfrom the time i clicked on that link until the time i received a response was approximately 40 seconds. Not fast enough.19:03
@rizenat least not for doing realtime currency conversion into the user's native currency19:03
CIA-20WebGUI: graham * r5263 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.4.20 release19:03
@rizeni guess it would be ok if there was a background process that picked up the conversion rate every hour or something19:04
perlDreamerit could be a workflow activity19:04
@rizenbackground process = workflow activity19:04
@rizenas far as webgui is concerned19:04
@rizenit goes without saying19:05
perlDreamerI'll say no more19:05
@rizenperlmonkey2  as far as getting this out the door and then adding to it19:05
@rizenthis is a very fundamental change19:05
@rizenit's not something that can just be easily strapped on19:06
@rizenas all objects in the system need to account for it if we're going to do it19:06
@rizenso we might as well get it out of the way now...decide once and for all19:06
nubaanother one http://finance.yahoo.com/d/quotes.csv?e=.csv&f=s,l1,t1,d1&s=EURUSD=X'19:06
nubathis one needs some massaging tho19:07
@rizenyeah, but at least it was fast19:07
perlmonkey2rizen: well.......then I'd go with adding the multiple currencies I guess.19:07
@rizenwhy though?19:08
@rizenwho's going to use that?19:08
perlmonkey2actually good point.19:08
@rizeni've been looking around the internet for a store that does it19:08
@rizenand haven't found one19:08
perlmonkey2someone not paying for support won't be large enough to handle international shipping taxes and laws.19:08
perlmonkey2pounds and dollars19:09
perlmonkey2and I think euros19:09
perlmonkey2but they are hard coded or have a cheesy home brew 19:09
perlmonkey2but they might be the exception that proves the rule.19:10
@rizenall seem to be sold in pounds19:10
perlmonkey2you can change the currency type in th eupper right.19:10
@rizensorry didn't see that19:11
perlmonkey2seems like most sites have a different site for each country they deal in.19:11
perlmonkey2Plus paypal and CC's will handle the currency conversion for you, rihgt?19:11
nubabetter now 'http://finance.yahoo.com/d/quotes.csv?e=.csv&f=sl1t1d1&s=EURUSD=X'19:11
nubareqs minimal massaging now19:12
nubaand its fast19:12
nubawget -O - 'http://finance.yahoo.com/d/quotes.csv?e=.csv&f=sl1t1d1&s=EURUSD=X'  0.00s user 0.01s system 4% cpu 0.133 total19:12
nubarizen: i found this finance url in Jojo CMS19:14
CIA-20WebGUI: graham * r5264 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm): reverting UTF-8 change19:18
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CIA-20WebGUI: jt * r5265 /releases/WebGUI_7.4.20-stable: Release 7.4.20-stable19:33
CIA-20WebGUI: graham * r5266 / (3 files in 3 dirs): 19:33
CIA-20WebGUI: Merged revisions 5264 via svnmerge from19:33
CIA-20WebGUI: https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/branch/WebGUI_7.419:33
CIA-20WebGUI: ........19:33
CIA-20WebGUI:  r5264 | graham | 2008-01-09 10:59:46 -0600 (Wed, 09 Jan 2008) | 1 line19:33
CIA-20WebGUI:  reverting UTF-8 change19:33
CIA-20WebGUI: ........19:33
CIA-20WebGUI: graham * r5267 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (4 files in 4 dirs): preparing for 7.4.21 dev19:33
CIA-20WebGUI: colin * r5268 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Gallery/Utility.pm: remove more bad whitespace from Gallery/Utility.pm19:33
CIA-20WebGUI: graham * r5269 /WebGUI/docs/ (5 files in 2 dirs): merging 7.4 changes19:33
perlDreamerIs the Dashboard on the cutting block?19:34
@rizennot that i'm aware of19:35
perlDreamerThe poll on the site made me curious19:35
perlmonkey2Are there any stats on the number of WebGUI users?19:36
@rizenwe (plain black) are aware of around 10,000 webgui deployments19:37
@rizenhow many webgui users that makes i don't know19:37
perlmonkey2That seems largish19:38
perlmonkey2for an enterprise level CMS19:38
CIA-20WebGUI: colin * r5270 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Asset.t: resolved bug/question about assetAddPrivilege and Turn On Admin group. Fixing test19:48
* perlmonkey2 can't get focused on JS dev this morning19:52
nubarizen: how do you want people to add their googlemaps key to the site?20:02
nubai thought of a '3rd party plugins' tab in settings20:03
@rizenper the spec it should be a property of the asset20:03
nubaand to make it a textarea field, so people can just paste a single key there, 20:03
@rizentext field not textarea20:04
nubaor write domain.com herethekeyfordomain120:04
nubadomain2 herethekeyfordomain220:04
nubai mean textarea, not a single-line textfield20:04
nubasuppose, like plainblack.com and webgui.org20:05
@rizenbecause you're going to allow for multiple keys?20:05
nubayou need a different key for each20:05
nubaso unless we add some key management feature where people add domain/key pairs20:05
@rizeni suppose then a text area would work, but it might be easier for the user if you searated them into individual text fields 2 each line20:05
@rizendomain and key20:05
@rizeni really don't care though20:06
@rizenjust as long as it's an asset property20:06
@rizeni thought about making it global to the site20:06
nubanow theres this thing, i've written a Form::Location too20:06
@rizenbut in reality most people will likely only put one or two maps onto their site20:06
@rizenand Form::Location also uses the key?20:07
nubawell actually i think we need to talk a bit20:07
nubagot a few minutes?20:07
nubai have a vision in which you could attach location to any thing in webgui20:07
perlDreamerEvent calendar20:08
perlDreamerWiki page20:08
nubathats why i wrote WebGUI::Form::Location20:08
@rizengeo tagging20:08
@rizenwell in that case, perhaps your keylist should be specified as a setting in the settings page20:08
@rizenbut then in the asset properties, you should provide a note that the key must be set in your settings in order for the maps to display20:09
perlDreamerIf I'm kibitzing, please tell me to butt out, but if _any_ user can add a location, would each user need their own key, or would they all use the site one?20:09
nubamy thinking is the site owner sets the site's keys20:10
nubauser wont know it20:10
nubafor the map asset, user would be able to see/add/edit/delete locations based on privileges set at the map20:11
nubaanother thing, rizen, i remember you said about porting Keywords to other things besides wikipages20:12
nubawhats your take on that20:12
@rizenwhat's my take on what? keywords?20:13
nubaporting it to other things20:13
nubalike events, or posts, etc20:13
@rizenit's already done20:13
@rizenwhen i built it the keywords system was built directly into assets20:13
@rizenit just needs to be exposed as a user interface20:13
@rizento each asset type that wants to suppor it20:13
nubaoh i didnt see it yet then20:13
nubawell when i thought this Keywords had been just written..20:14
* perlmonkey2 finally gives up on figuring out a good method for namespacing his JS objects. 20:14
nubai thought if could be nice if you could add locations to anything the same way you could with keywords20:14
perlmonkey2function question function answer function whatever shall now be globally namespaced to trample on whomever is included with the same name.20:14
ckotiladding a UI to add additional keywords will be great.20:15
ckotilbc i have seen some cases where the indexing script doesnt do a well enough job.20:15
nubathen i thought what this is doing is like "annotating content"20:16
nubayou enable an "annotation" of the type Keyword, then enable another "annotation" of the type Location20:16
ckotilyou can use the summary/synospsis for that.20:16
ckotilor even add more meta data.20:16
@rizennuba, i'm not in favor of adding a location field to every asset20:17
ckotili added a new metadata field to all of my assets recently. with the goal of creating customized views for our documentation system. which sits inline with our website.20:17
@rizensome assets could certainly use it20:17
nubame too, not to every asset.20:17
@rizenlike the ones you mentioned20:17
@rizenbut it shouldn't be a property of WebGUI::Asset20:17
nubawhats the best way for that, then?20:17
@rizenbut keywords are a property of WebGUI::Asset20:18
@rizenfor any assets that could use a location, there should be a location property added to them20:18
@rizenas far as i see that right now, WebGUI::Asset::Event is the only one for sure20:19
@rizenothers may be useful20:19
@rizenlike Article20:19
@rizenand WikiPage20:19
nubaok the second part is how to make sense of that location property20:19
@rizenbut certainly not things like Navigation, or Image20:19
nubaie. exposing the location in geocoded RSS is great20:19
perlDreamerHow about Photo?20:20
@rizenphoto could definitely use a location20:20
@rizenprobably not post20:20
nubadepends on whats the collab asset being used for20:20
@rizenyeah, and the collab is already too big20:20
@rizenso i don't want to add more shit to it20:20
perlDreamerWould there be a macro version so that you could use maps in the user profile?20:21
perlDreameror other operations?20:21
nubamy motivation in writing this all is for a content gallery (mainly photos) to be plotted in a map20:21
@rizenyou shouldn't need a macro for the user profile20:21
nubathats what picasa is doing now20:21
nubaflickr too20:21
@rizenyeah, i can totally see that20:21
perlDreamerbut that would be in the Gallery, not the CS20:21
@rizenthe photos in the gallery, and eventually videos once the plugin is made20:22
@rizenshould have a location20:22
nubajob postings?20:22
nubatravel blogs?20:22
@rizenif there was a job object sure, but not in the collab20:22
@rizenthe collab needs to be refactored into several systems that are derived from collab20:23
@rizenso that this sort of specialty stuff can be added20:23
@rizenwithout clutter20:23
nubawould it be possible to exist a matrix where you could have 'keywords, location' as columns, assets as lines, and checkboxes ?20:23
nubaso dynamically enable/disable types of "annotations"?20:24
@rizenanything is possible, but how about you start with getting the mapping system done first20:24
nubaim getting it done20:24
@rizeni also want to build an online auction system too, but i think i better get the commerce system done first20:25
nubaand what is your comment about that matrix i just said?20:25
nubaif you could have pluggable types of "annotations" to be enabled/disabled, using class::insideout?20:26
@rizenthe comment i just gave you is all you'll get from me until i see a completed mapping system checked in with tests, documentation, i18n, and templates into svn20:26
nubaso you wont even allow for a sounding board and discuss the idea?20:27
@rizensure, go ahead and discuss all you want20:27
nubaboy i was so excited when i saw a pattern in keywords and my location idea20:27
nubaand thought of bringing it up20:28
@rizeni don't like commenting on a future that is more than 3 months out20:28
@rizentoo much is variables20:28
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cap10morganyou know what would be cool? a generic JSON consumer asset that reflected the JSON into template variables20:36
cap10morganand then you could get JSON from web services, other external applications, etc.20:37
@rizenthat would be cool, but i have an even cooler idea, that i'll probably never get to20:37
@rizeni want to build a "Data Handler" asset20:37
@rizenit would have a protocol handler20:38
@rizenand a format handler20:38
@rizenand then would be able to grab data from http, ftp, filesystem (protocol part)20:38
@rizenoh...and sql20:38
@rizenand then the format handler would be able to parse the resulting data set (xml, rss, json, DBI result set, etc) into a list of template varaiables20:39
cap10morganoh, yeah, that would be cool20:39
cap10morganwhat if you made it so that existing assets could be chained?20:40
@rizenand since we're talking super pipe dream, optionally tie it into the graphing system20:40
cap10morganso the report-type assets could be protocol handlers20:40
cap10morganand the display-type assets could be format handlers20:40
cap10morganso you could say, here's a web service client asset, and it spits out json (or whatever)20:40
perlDreamerhe wants asset pipelines20:41
cap10morganand here's an article that consumes it and displays it20:41
cap10morganor a calendar, or whatever20:41
@rizenand while you're at it, here's your cake, and you can eat it too20:41
perlDreamerHaarg: are you around?20:42
perlDreamerIs the Textarea also using yui-ext?20:42
@Haargno, it is using the correct path - extjs20:42
perlDreamerThanks.  I'll be more careful with my ack'ing next time20:43
@Haargthe calendar was including a bunch of js files it didn't need20:44
perlDreamerand they were using the wrong path to boot?20:45
@rizennuba: not true20:45
@rizentextarea is using yui-ext for the draggable sizing20:45
perlDreamerI think he meant me20:49
perlDreamerand _I_ really meant to say extjs, which the Textarea doesn't use.20:50
@rizenyui-ext, extjs, Ext...all the same thing20:52
@rizendon't care what you call it20:52
@rizenbut textarea is using it20:52
@HaargTextarea uses extjs for resizing.  the calendar was trying to include that too, but had the wrong path (yui-ext).  additionally, it didn't need it.21:04
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perlDreamerwgGuest87: back so soon?21:28
wgGuest87firefox wasnt loading the chat correctly :P21:29
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spanishinquisitnquestion for you guys21:30
spanishinquisitnwhen I upload an image using the new image asset21:30
spanishinquisitnits only showing a 481b file21:30
spanishinquisitnand its not actually there...21:30
spanishinquisitnany idea what is causing it?21:30
spanishinquisitnbecause its only doing it SOME of the time21:31
nubais there anything in your webgui.log ?21:32
spanishinquisitnit says permission denied - 21:37
spanishinquisitnso its a permissions issue21:37
spanishinquisitnbut why does it work some and not other times21:37
perlDreamerthe permissions are changing in the filesystem?21:38
spanishinquisitnI'm not a linux guy so I don't know what would cause that....   especially since no one has touched the computer21:39
spanishinquisitnbut if its a webgui thing permissions should be fine 21:39
ckotilmight need to perform a chown apache:apache -R /data/WebGUI/www/public/21:41
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ckotilgrr. asset doesnt exist, yet it thinks its locked.22:47
perlDreamerasset doesn't exist in which table?22:47
ckotilit tells me all that in the front end.22:47
ckotilim poking around in the backend, and not having much luck either.22:47
perlDreamerfor problems like that, you have to use the db22:48
ckotilthe url is. 'iunoc'22:48
ckotilso i run thi. 'select * from assetData where url = 'iunoc';22:48
ckotilreturns empty set.22:48
perlDreamerso how does it act like it is locked?22:48
ckotilwebgui tells me so in the frontend.22:49
ckotilis asset table the only place lock's are set?22:49
perlDreamerthere are 2 asset tables22:49
perlDreamerasset and assetData22:49
perlDreamerlocks are in asset22:49
perlDreamerurls are in assetData22:49
perlDreamerthe assetId is the common link between them22:50
perlDreamerso, I would say that you have something cached by assetId, which says that it is locked. but since the url doesn't exist you can't access it22:50
perlDreamertry clearing the cache and see if that helps22:50
ckotilok, good idea.22:50
perlDreamerbig cache22:51
ckotillargest i ever saw the cache.22:51
@rizen2.5 mb or gb?22:52
@rizencuz i've seen caches grow to almost a gig22:52
ckotilPermission Denied!22:52
ckotilThis Asset is locked for editing under a version tag different from the one that you are using. 22:52
ckotilyikes. thats huge.22:52
perlDreamerany uncommitted versionTags?22:52
ckotilyes, a few, but this particular asset isnt in any of them.22:53
ckotili should just commit these tags.22:53
ckotiltheyve been outstanding for a month.22:53
ckotilbastard users.22:53
perlDreamernow that would be a story worth reading22:53
perlDreamerBOFH vs BUFH22:54
perlDreamerwho will win?22:54
ckotilthat worked. commiting 3 old version tags.22:54
ckotilthanks for the help.22:55
nubaBOFH vs BUFH <-- both lose, competition wins22:55
perlDreamerkind of like Alien vs Predator?22:55
nubacompetition as in other places where BOFHs and BUFHs aren't busy in war22:55
ckotilO's can snubb out the U's22:58
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perlDreamerI think I bricked my Sansa23:21
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wgGuest01hello everyone23:38
perlDreamerhello '0123:38
perlDreamerDo you have a question?23:39
metanilcould it be possible to put a link 'edit' in the side of the title ?23:39
perlDreamerDo you mean instead of the toolbar?23:39
wgGuest01how is the AD authentication set up on WebGUI?  not sure how to set up LDAP.23:39
metanilya not in 'admin mode on'23:39
perlDreamerEditing requires being in Admin mode23:40
perlDreamerso even if you show the link it wouldn't work23:40
metanilbut putting a link  like ...?func=edit will switch to admin mode, isn't it?23:41
metanili'll try again23:41
@preactionyou don't need to be in Admin Mode to edit an asset, really23:41
@preactionjust need ?func=edit23:41
@preactionAdmin Mode just exposes the interface to those pages23:41
@preactionand adds the Admin accordian23:41
wgGuest01zzzZZZ :)23:42
@preactioni find Admin Mode to be an annoyance for small changes23:42
metanili think i can edit without explicitly going into admin mode23:42
@preactionwgGuest01, LDAP is something that doesn't even have a decent Wiki article. i've never had to set one up, and those who do usually get help from Plain Black Support23:42
ckotilive tried to setup LDAP a few times.23:42
ckotilfailed miserably each time.23:43
@rizenthe webgui admin guide shows you how to do it23:43
ckotilwe dont have a production LDAP server yet, so it isn that big of a deal for me... yet23:43
ckotilthe book I gotta buy?23:43
ckotilcool. 23:43
ckotilit'd be nice to have a production LDAP server. leopard server would tie into it nicely i bet.23:44
ckotilwhich would then allow me to kerberize the damned thing. which would  work nicely for ical server!23:44
ckotilical server is pretty depressing overall.23:44
wgGuest01if I have users on AD and I want them to use their username and password from AD or have WebGUI authentica automatically with the user's account, is LDAP what I need?23:44
ckotilit works great with the ical client, but thats it. sunbird is a hassle to get it working.23:44
metanilpreaction: do u know how to put an edit link on the side of the title?23:45
@rizen01: yes, use LDAP with AD23:45
@preactionmetanil, just adding ?func=edit to the url should work23:46
wgGuest01are the users going to be able to open the intranet page and get automatically signed into webgui?23:46
metanilpreation, yes.. but i want it to be appear on side of the title.23:46
metanilautomation would be even great!23:47
@rizen01: no, webgui does single login (one username across all systems), but not single signon23:47
@preactionmetanil, you'd have to alter the template23:49
metanili think i got it..23:50
@preactionremember to copy the template and make changes to your copy, then make your asset use the copy. changing default templates may cause problems when you update23:50
wgGuest01I need to be able to show pages, links, menus based on the user/group permissions.  For example, I want to have a main page for every one, and only show certain info to accounting that maybe HR can't see.  How can that work with single sign login?  23:50
@preactionwgGuest01, you don't need SSO for that. you just need Groups. anybody who's not in the "Group to View" an asset will not be able to see that asset23:51
ckotilthe same way it wold work with normal login. you would require a user to be in group XXX to view an asset.23:52
ckotilthen you can get really fancy with <tmpl_if's23:52
@rizenand you can even tie your LDAP groups to your webgui groups23:52
@rizenthat's also explained in the WebGUI Admin Guide23:52
ckotilohh. i want that.23:52
perlDreamerbuy it!23:53
ckotilim already at the store ;)23:53
perlDreamerGood man23:53
wgGuest01right, but I'm trying to avoid having another password for the users to remember.23:53
perlDreamerrizen: Do I still get a commission? :)23:53
@rizenthey won't have another passwrod23:53
@rizenthey'll use their windows AD username and password in webgui23:53
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@rizenperhaps you're confused about the difference between single login and single signon23:54
@rizensingle signon means that you log in to windows23:54
@rizenand you're automatically logged into webgui23:54
@rizensingle login means you log into windows23:54
@rizenand you still have to log into webgui23:54
@rizenbut you use the same username and password to do both23:54
ckotilsent the message to my secratary to order the book. she'll place the order in the mornig.23:56
ckotilwith that. im heading home. later all.23:57
perlDreamerI wish _I_ had a secretary23:57
perlDreamershe could write code so that I could write more tests23:57
--- Day changed Thu Jan 10 2008
metanilwhat is the current article url?? is it <tmpl_var pageUrl>  ??00:00
perlDreamer^PageUrl; works00:04
wgGuest01sooo, if someone log in to windows they will log in to webgui and depending on the way I set up their user access they'll be able to access what I want them to access?  00:04
perlDreamerwgGuest01: yes00:04
@preactionmetanil, the online help has all the template variables everywhere, along with friendly descriptions00:06
perlDreamerYes, and as rizen said, you can setup LDAP so you only have to set up the access in one "realm" AD vs WebGUI00:06
wgGuest01now I don't have to pay a leg and an arm ;)00:06
perlDreamerNo, you don't because you don't have to install SharePoint or anything else00:07
perlDreamerbut you can help support wG by buying the Admin guide/ Content Manager's guide and other stuff00:07
wgGuest01or get a custom NTLM module ;)00:07
perlDreamersince that's how Plain Black stays afloat00:07
perlDreamerright, or get a custom NT auth module, or resurrect the old SMB one00:08
wgGuest01how 7K for a custom module sound?00:08
wgGuest01it hurts00:08
wgGuest01I'll wait to migrate to AD in two months00:08
perlDreamerI agree, but it's better than buying CAL packs from MS00:09
wgGuest01:) true00:09
wgGuest01My company will get the complete support from PlainBlack for the first year and we'll go from there.  We might not need after the first year everything but the online support.00:10
perlDreamerThat's very wise.  Get trained with all the basics, then step down to the level you need00:11
wgGuest01Right, I'm an Asst. System Admin, not a web developer.  This will help me to get my skills sharpen, specially perl.  00:12
perlDreamerMaybe, but the real thing to think about is being able to put editing and content management tools out in the hands of your users, instead of having to do it all yourself.00:12
perlDreamerYou may not even need to learn perl, although I'd recommend it.00:13
wgGuest01I love FireBug, it will help me a lot to understand CSS, etc.00:13
wgGuest01I like the challenge :)00:13
wgGuest01Finally, do I have to add every single username in AD to WebGUI manually?00:19
perlDreamerI've never really used LDAP/AD, but if there isn't a workflow activity that does it, there is a script to do it00:20
perlDreamercalled userImport00:20
wgGuest01How do I change my username (wgGuest01)?00:22
@preactionuse /nick <newname>00:22
-!- perlDreamer is now known as myNewNickname00:22
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@preactionor you can use a proper IRC client to connect to: irc.freenode.net #webgui00:22
@preactionthen you don't have to use that Java POS00:22
wgGuest01user /nick geeKinpuT00:23
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perlDreamerI think we're going to like him00:24
@rizenmethinks he may be the new ehab00:26
@rizenand we haven't even gotten rid of our old ehab00:26
@rizenso that means we have two ehabs00:26
@rizenwhich may or may not be a good thing00:26
perlDreamerI know you don't always appreciate ehab's feedback, but at least he gives _some_ feedback.00:27
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@preactionif they take what they know and propagate it. community advocates, etc... that's a good thing00:27
@rizenthat's a good thing00:27
@preactionhad a guy last week who made a forum post and came to IRC, and was nice enough when he got the answer on IRC to reply to his own post with the answer00:27
@rizenas long as they spread what they learn00:27
@rizensee that's cool00:28
perlDreamerWe need to be sure to encourage all new users to be good community members00:28
@preactionwe lead by example00:28
perlDreamerYeah, so long as I don't keep giving people the wrong answers to their questions it will be fine :)00:28
@rizenehab turns everything into a rant about how plain black isn't doing something or other right00:28
@rizenand for the most part, it's just cuz he's to cheap to buy the things we provide so he can do it right, or to take the time and initiative to learn it for himself00:29
@rizeni like ehab, he's fun to talk to and often has good ideas00:30
@preactionhttp://www.slash7.com/pages <- fun article on "Help Vampires", which reminds me that we should build some FAQ topics on the wiki00:30
@rizeni just don't like that he's a "give me the world for $0.01 or less please" type of person00:31
perlDreamerI took a class from Amy at OSCON two years ago.00:33
perlDreamerShe did well00:33
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SynQnerd time00:34
perlDreamerHowdy, SynQ!00:35
perlDreamerIs your beautiful wife pregnant yet?00:35
SynQdirect questions, direct answers00:35
@rizenif she was, it would be with my beautiful baby00:35
perlDreamerWell, you were quiet excited about kids at the WUC.  So I had to ask.00:36
SynQI'm quite exited about the hat sarah found for me00:36
SynQthe one of the butcher00:36
BartJoljeah, and he never stops talking about getting kids00:36
SynQat least at my house bart gets to sleep in a bed >:)00:37
SynQbut that's more cause our couch is smaller than JT's :)00:37
BartJolindeed it is00:37
@rizenmy couch is very comfortable00:38
SynQI love WebGUI!00:38
@rizeni fall asleep on it all the time00:38
SynQjust had to say00:38
@rizennow go write six articles about it and get them published in major press junkets00:38
SynQdidn't mean to get mushy or something00:38
SynQI could if you got someone to die over WebGUI00:39
SynQsomeone has to make a sacrifice00:39
SynQperhaps Doug?00:39
SynQwe could habashi him?00:39
BartJolah, that would be me  being sacrificed by Koen?00:39
metanili can't find template variable in wiki.. any links?00:39
SynQbart, you are too precious00:39
@rizentemplate variables are documented in the online help that comes with webgui00:40
SynQdoug whould suit being a sacrifice much better00:40
@rizeni need him00:40
@rizensacrifice vrby00:40
SynQhe'd tell silly jokes while the blood is pooring from him00:40
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BartJolbut he very kindly helped me this week at 3 am00:40
SynQsorry, vrbsky is too funny00:40
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@rizenwell i need vrby too, so sacrifice martin00:41
@rizenor vayde00:41
SynQwe could take one of the sons of rian?00:41
@rizenvayde says he wants to help the community00:41
BartJolshouldn't it be a beautifull virgin?00:41
@rizenso maybe he'd be willing to make a sacrifice00:41
SynQoh yeah it should00:41
SynQdidn't frank have a doughter?00:41
@rizenvayde might be a virgin00:41
BartJolhows the gooey underwear doing?00:41
@rizenbut beautiful.......nah00:41
vaydeclose enough, with the action I get these days00:42
vaydewhich altar may I leave my heart on?00:42
SynQthat's the spirit!00:42
@preactionthe alter of mediocre sorrow00:42
vaydeoh, is that all?  been there for a while now00:42
SynQand there comes the man of my first choice00:43
SynQor, as I'd like to call him 'habashi man'00:43
SynQor was it 'hibashi man'00:43
@preactionhibachi i think00:43
SynQso 'hibachi man' it is :)00:44
SynQI'm looking forward to the WUC allready00:45
@preactionis it worse when code doesn't work but you don't know why, or when it Does work and you don't know why? (and you're the one who wrote it)00:45
@preactionsurprisingly, so am i. I've been thinking up topics i want to speak about already ;)00:45
SynQtalk about primary needs, like coffee, sleep, or sex00:46
SynQor hibachi00:46
vaydeI'll have to come in with horror stories about how not to write code00:46
@preactiondefinately hibachi00:46
BartJolyou need Doug?00:46
BartJolmmm, maybe I should move a couple of feet00:47
SynQI'm sure by now bartjol is really curious about what hibashi is00:47
BartJolsound like raw fish00:47
SynQnot raw00:47
SynQfried stuff00:47
SynQfried everything00:47
SynQyour flatmate Janne can learn from that00:48
BartJolwell, but he combines mayonaise with more stuff00:48
@preactiona big hotplate / grill thing in the table, cook comes and fries up steak, vegetables, seafood, rice, everything right there00:48
SynQand graham can eat from it too00:49
BartJolsounds nice00:49
SynQhe's actually quite good at it00:49
SynQhas graham gained any weight since the wuc?00:50
perlDreamerNot according to his picture00:50
perlDreameroh, btw, Frank has a son00:50
SynQwho has a doughter then?00:50
SynQsorry daughter i mean00:52
SynQdamn language00:52
@rizenryan and kristi just had a little baby girl00:53
SynQah 00:53
SynQbut the boys deserve a sister00:53
BartJolKoen, you're falling behind00:53
@rizenkristi was the preggo one at the wuc00:53
SynQI know00:53
SynQand a fine looking one too :)00:54
@rizenare you talking about me or her =)00:54
BartJolKoen get me something to drink00:54
@rizengotta go00:54
BartJolyou too JT00:54
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BartJolyou handsome fellow00:54
SynQJT, you've got a nice belly too :)00:55
SynQJT, is sarah around?00:59
SynQis it lunch time or something?01:00
BartJolwell some people have to work around midnight01:02
metanilwhere is the source file for template variable controls??  or where this variable is handled?01:04
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metaniltemplate variable 'controls' is for the toolbar.01:10
SynQI've got a WRE for debian etch01:11
@preactionmetanil, controls is usually handled by either Asset::processTemplate, or somewhere in the asset itself with getToolbar().01:12
metanilone quick question. pageUrl will point to current page whether the article is within inside some other page layout .. if i want to get current article url directly, is there any template variable..? I looked through online help but there is no such thing.. 01:15
@preactionyou don't want to use the PageUrl macro. you want to edit the asset's view template to use its own url (<tmpl_var url>) to add the edit link01:21
SynQalmost time for bed01:22
perlDreamerperlbot vamp is http://www.slash7.com/articles/2006/12/22/vampires01:25
perlbotadded vamp to the database01:25
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CIA-20WebGUI: chrisn * r5271 /WebGUI/ (6 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)01:33
CIA-20WebGUI: Add the Widget macro. This enables assets to be widgetized (easily embedded in01:33
CIA-20WebGUI: another page). Usage as such: ^Widget(assetId, width, height, templateId);01:33
CIA-20WebGUI: assetId is the ID of the asset to widgetize, width and height are the size of01:33
CIA-20WebGUI: the iframe, templateId is the template ID of the template to use for the widget01:33
CIA-20WebGUI: itself. This will pop up an icon that shows you some markup to put on another01:33
CIA-20WebGUI: page to embed the asset in widget form. If no template given, will use the01:33
perlDreamerapeiron: how is a widgetized asset different from an assetProxied asset?01:36
@apeironperlDreamer, Widgets let you have WebGUI content on a non-WebGUI, possibly static, site.01:36
@apeironperlDreamer, widgetbox.com has a large library of examples of the kind of thing that the Widget macro in WebGUI seeks to achieve.01:37
perlDreamerthanks, I'll check it out!01:38
@apeironperlDreamer, So say you have a static server, right, and a dynamic server. The dynamic server has a poll on it... you widgetize the poll, stick the markup on the static server, and voila, dynamic on static. :)01:38
CIA-20WebGUI: colin * r5272 /WebGUI/t/PassiveProfiling.t: 01:48
CIA-20WebGUI: Rework the PassiveProfiling test to use newly created macros.01:48
CIA-20WebGUI: Add coverage for addPage in the tests.01:48
perlDreameranother module bites the dust01:49
@preactionunless you  mean some other form of "bite the dust"01:50
perlDreamerI did think of a way to make it run faster01:50
perlDreameraddPage calls add in a loop01:50
perlDreamerit should send the list of assetIds to add, and add should do a prepare, loop -> execute on data01:51
perlDreamerit should be faster that way01:51
metanilthe page in the admin mode is not the same in  normal mode. is it due to cache? (i just change the template)01:52
perlDreamermetanil: that should be cache related01:52
metanili clear the local cache.. but that doesn't sovle the problem. 01:53
metaniland i've also restart both modproxy and modperl.01:53
metanilon the server01:53
@preactionVersion Tag01:54
@preactiondid you read the article on How to Give WebGUI Your Own Style? it has a lot of useful information for working with webgui01:54
perlDreamerThat's in the wiki, right?01:55
metanilthats great article.. i solve by clearing cache01:58
perlDreamerclearing cache on the server?01:58
metanili mean in webgui itselt02:08
perlDreamerThe visitor cache can be quite long, which is why it's bypassed in admin mode.02:09
metanilanybody know what profileField("uiLevel") will do? could this be accessed through template level using template variable?02:09
perlDreamermetanil: You need to spend some time with the wiki02:09
perlDreamerthat's all described in there02:09
perlDreamerbtw, I've only been wrong twice today02:15
perlDreamerIf I'm wrong again, I'll eat my words and write the wiki page02:16
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metanilgroupidadminuser is groupid for admin .. but what is groupidadminuseradd??04:09
metanilusers to allow to add other users?04:10
@preactionhold your mouse over the name of the permission on the settings page, it describes what it does04:10
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spnishinqusitionanyone here have webgui installed on mac osX ?15:36
dapperedodoon an intel mac with leopard 15:41
spnishinqusitionhave you previously installed on linux as well?15:41
dapperedodoyes on debian15:45
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spnishinqusitionwhich did you find easyier to install and setup on?15:56
dapperedodoon the mac, that was precompiled15:57
dapperedodoOn debian I had to do it from source15:58
dapperedodoBut the Debian now also has a precompiled version15:58
spnishinqusitionwell i have it installed on a mac - but it tends to give me problems from time to time15:59
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dapperedodoI did not have problems so far on both installs16:00
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wgGuest33I like to upload a picture by the collaborative system and you do not get off the resolution?17:19
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wgGuest33someone knows?17:22
ckotilcan you clarify the last part of your question?17:37
wgGuest33when i up an image for the collaboration system this is bad17:40
wgGuest33down the resolution17:40
+MrHairgreasedo you mean that your image is automatically scaled to a lower resolution?17:41
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+MrHairgreasechage the max image size in the setting panel of the admin console17:42
+MrHairgreasethat should do it17:42
wgGuest33ok, wait a minute17:42
perlmonkey2I've been reading about FOSS businesses, and it seems that the norm is 2% paying customers out of total users.  Does that sound reasonable for WebGUI?17:45
@rizenwe're at about 20%17:47
@rizenand that number is growing year after year17:47
@rizenvery slowly17:47
perlmonkey2that is frik'n nuts......that is HUGE!17:47
+MrHairgreasethat a 1000% improvement =)17:47
perlmonkey2so you guys are like FOSS rock stars when it comes to making money off of FOSS?17:47
perlmonkey2too cool17:49
wgGuest33this max size image that is?17:55
+MrHairgreaseif you upload an image to your site which has a width, height (or both) that is larger than the number you enter in the max image size box17:57
+MrHairgreasewebgui will scale the image down to that number17:57
+MrHairgreasethe number is in pixels17:57
wgGuest33Then I suggest that value to put17:58
+MrHairgreaseif you don't want wg to scale your images17:59
+MrHairgreasejust set that value to 100000 or some other insanely high value18:00
wgGuest33mmm the size image is 139 pixels18:02
wgGuest33then why happend?18:02
wgGuest33when i upload the image for the ftp, this not happen18:02
wgGuest33but when i do for the collaboration system, yes18:02
+MrHairgreasei do not understand what you mean18:03
+MrHairgreasethe collaboration system also has its own max image size18:04
+MrHairgreaseto change that edit your cs and go to the display tab18:04
+MrHairgreaseif you set the value to 0 it'll used the sitewide default18:05
+MrHairgreasethat's not it?18:05
+MrHairgreaseyou are aware that a thumbnail is generated right?18:05
wgGuest33in the box thumbnail i have 13918:06
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+MrHairgreaseso what is the problem?18:06
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wgGuest33When upload an image is generated by FTP and the html image does not drop the resolution, but when the upload system for collaboration that its low resolution18:09
+MrHairgreasefirst there is no ftp inside webgui18:10
wgGuest33i know18:11
+MrHairgreasesecondly what is your max image size setting18:11
wgGuest33and the image that upload is 139 pixels18:11
+MrHairgreaseyeah, but that's the thumbnail right?18:11
+MrHairgreaseor is it also 139 px if you click on the thumbnail?18:12
+MrHairgreasethen i dunno...18:12
+MrHairgreasewhat version are you running?18:12
+MrHairgreaseand what's the url of the image that has been scaled down?18:13
GeeKinpuTCan someone explain how the databases for WebGUI work?  Are they saved on the data\wre folder? Can they be viewed using MySQL Administrator.18:13
wgGuest33version 7.4.1518:13
+MrHairgreasegeekinput: they are saved somewhere in the /data/wre/.../var folder18:14
+MrHairgreaseand you cpuld prolly connect to them using your mysql admin tool thingy18:15
+MrHairgreasewell, maybe you've hit a bug.18:18
+MrHairgreasecan you reproduce the behaviour on demo.webgui.org?18:19
GeeKinpuTdo they have a size limit?  Can they be optimized?  The reason I ask is because I want to put a lot of documents, forms, eventually video training, etc.  I wasn't sure what get saved on the databases and what goes to a directory.  I wan't to make sure I have enough room on the server.18:19
+MrHairgreaseif so, please submit a bug report on webgui.org/bugs18:19
+MrHairgreasecollateral data is saved to the filesystem18:19
+MrHairgreasestuff like files and images that is18:20
+MrHairgreaserizen: are the wuc talks digitized yet?18:21
@rizenwe won't digitize until we have a video plugin for the gallery18:23
@rizenbecause we don't want to digitize twice18:23
@rizenso if you want to volunteer to write that18:23
@rizenthen we'll digitize18:23
+MrHairgreasei could do that18:23
+MrHairgreaseif you volunteer to do my graduation for me18:23
@rizenunfortunately i overestimated the free time that our devs (including me) were going to have18:23
+MrHairgreasesame here18:23
@rizenso i thought we'd be able to get it done early in the year18:23
@rizenbut it's looking more like summer or after before we can get the video plugin done18:24
@rizenunless some client comes along to pay for it18:24
@rizenor someone volunteers18:24
+MrHairgreasewhat's that suposed to look like?18:24
+MrHairgreaseflv format?18:24
@rizeni'm really sorry about that, cuz i'd love to have webgui tube up18:24
@rizenit will probably be flv18:24
@rizenbut it might also be mpeg18:24
+MrHairgreaseok 18:24
@rizenfor swf18:24
@rizenit just depends upon which player we decide to go with18:25
+MrHairgreaseit seems like a cool project18:25
perlmonkey2Since JS apparently can't use a '~' in a function name, what would be a good standard for calling destructors?18:25
+MrHairgreasewhen i have time again and still think it's cool i'll let you know =)18:25
@rizeni also think it is cool18:26
+MrHairgreasethe thing is18:26
@rizenand if i didn't have to prepare speeches for all the trade shws andother talks18:26
perlmonkey2this.delete?  this.fubar, this.eraseme, this.free, this.mylastday, this.!malloc?18:26
@rizenas well as write the commerce system18:26
@rizeni'd do it18:26
+MrHairgreasei need something like that for the koornbeurs18:26
+MrHairgreasebut that's on the todo stack for a long time already18:27
perlmonkey2rizen: hah, why didn't I think of that18:27
GeeKinpuTis this for suse  wre-0.8.1-sles-10_sp1-ia32.tar.gz?18:27
+MrHairgreaseguess so18:27
+MrHairgreaserizen: one last question18:28
+MrHairgreasewould the gallery be usable under 7.4.x/18:28
+MrHairgreaseor at least easily backportable?18:29
@rizenwell it should be18:29
@rizencuz it just uses normal webgui subsystems18:29
@rizennothing new was developed for it18:29
+MrHairgreaseno fancy new stuff18:29
GeeKinpuTI was wondering if it works with OpenSuSe.  Can anyone suggest linux distro to run WebGUI?18:29
+MrHairgreasei use ubuntu or debian18:29
+MrHairgreaseboth work fine18:30
+MrHairgreaseyou can also compile it18:30
+MrHairgreaseon my laptop it only takes abot 40 minutes18:30
@rizenplain black deploys on RHEL and CentOS18:31
@rizenso if you want something that's guaranteed to work, those are good choices18:31
+MrHairgreasei think the best distro to use webgui on is the one you feel most comfortable with18:31
@rizenthat's a good point18:31
+MrHairgreaseif there's no binary for it yet18:31
+MrHairgreasejust compile it 18:31
@rizeni don't recommend deploying on windows for a production environment though18:32
GeeKinpuTRHEL, but I have to purchase support for it, right?18:32
+MrHairgreaseand upload it to sourceforge so other can benefit from you rcompile session18:32
@rizenWRE on windows is very good, but still not as good as the *nix versions18:32
+MrHairgreasesince when is windows a linux distro =)18:32
@rizenRHEL is for a fee, but centos is the free version of the same thing18:33
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GeeKinpuTSo I would use wre-0.8.1-rhel-5-ia32.tar.gz to install on CenOS 5?18:36
perlmonkey2GeeKinpuT: pretty much.  I used the rhel to install on Fedora, without issue.18:37
perlmonkey2and centos will be closer to RHEL than fedora.18:38
CIA-20WebGUI: colin * r5273 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/PassiveProfiling.pm: refactor PassiveProfiling into using placeholders for speedup18:48
CIA-20WebGUI: colin * r5274 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm: fix pad POD spacing in www_widgetView18:48
+MrHairgreasei'm going home18:49
+MrHairgreasesee you guys later18:49
perlDreamerlater, MrHairGrease18:50
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elninohi. quick question. I want to create a form to search a external database on our site. Do I use the "Data Form" or the "SQL Form"? I have a macor that will take the form parameters and display the data for me already. Or do I just write the html in a snippet?20:02
perlDreamerYou wouldn't use the DataForm.20:03
perlDreamerIf it's an existing database, it might easiest to use the SQL Report20:03
perlDreamerthe SQL Form will import other, existing, table (I think), but it adds a whole bunch of stuff to it.20:04
perlDreamerI'd use the SQL Report20:04
perlDreamerIn fact, it can already handle getting form parameters, so you shouldn't need a macro at all20:04
perlDreamerJust the form code, and a submit button.20:05
perlDreamerdid all that make sense?20:06
elninoyep. So it sounds like the form code should be in a snippet. I didn't use sqlreport, because the code to display the data was too complex for it. I was hopingn for a user friendly asset to create the search form so that marketing can change it if they want.20:07
perlDreamerWell, as long as you don't mind SQL Report altering the remote table, you can use it20:07
elninoOpps you lost me on the last comment. (Thank you for your quick responses!)20:08
perlDreamerThe SQL Report will add version control and several other columns to any table it works with.20:09
elninoyou mean sql form... I was under the impress that SQL report is a "display data only"20:09
elnino... right? or am i messed up?20:10
perlDreamerI don't know about the messed up part :)20:10
perlDreamerJust incorrect as to the SQL Report20:10
perlDreamerSQL Report will do dynamic data display using forms that you build yourself20:11
perlDreamerSQL Form will do dynamic input and display using forms that it helps build20:11
perlDreamerand you're right, I mistyped earlier20:11
elninoOK  Thanks. I'm followign you now. I appreciate your input! 20:12
perlDreamerI'm curious.  What do you have to display that the SQL Report won't handle?20:14
elninooh. I had to take a zip code, and calculate proximity and produce data from that criteria, and the display portion had to reformat incorrectly formated urls and check for existance of images and stuff. It was long ago and painful.20:16
perlDreameryeah, that's definitely macro work20:18
elninothanks again, perlDreamer, it's llunch time.  bye.20:19
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perlDreamerOne step closer to Test::Class20:36
@preactionis it really that bad? ;)20:39
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perlDreamerNo, I just don't want to spend all that time refactoring tests20:40
perlDreamerbut I'm sick and very tired of setup code buggering up my test scripts20:40
perlDreamerand needing the same asset, user and group setup code in multiple places20:40
@preactionamen to that20:41
perlDreamerMaybe it's time now20:41
@preactionwant that branch then?20:41
perlDreameryes please20:41
@preactionk, 5-10 minutes, gotta find out how bad i keep screwing myself by forgetting i have 10-hour processes running in an ssh session without nohup20:42
@preactionthen closing my computer down :p20:42
perlDreameryou should use screen20:42
perlDreamerit will fix all that kind of stuff20:43
@preactioni should. i should make it a required install on all plainblack servers20:43
perlDreamerActually, I can't think of any PB server I've been on without it20:43
perlDreamerit's standard with RHEL20:43
@preactionplus i usually put "screen -RR && exit" in my .login so i'm always in screen when i login ;)20:43
@preactionthat's what i do at home at least, doubt people around here would want to be forced to deal with screen20:44
perlDreamermaybe it's not so bad after all20:48
perlDreamerrizen: I'd like to add another module to the core, Test::Class.  How many organs will that cost?20:49
@preactionthey're all gone right now, out to lunch. i'm alone in JT's house. imho the obvious benefits outweigh any possible costs: even easier test writing is good for everyone. just the fact of implementing Test::Class will improve our coverage (due to inheritence). it's the Right Thing To Do20:50
@preactionwait. JT's IRC client pings him when JT is said?20:51
@preactionrofl, it DOES20:51
@preactionnote to self: saying JT will make his computer make noise, just as rizen will ;)20:51
perlDreamerDid they go to Teddy Wedgers?20:52
@preactioncouldn't tell ya. i slept in (slept 2 hours instead of 1 hour) so i got here late, caused a ruckus, and ate on the car ride here20:53
perlDreamerI'm not sure if I agree with the coverage argument.  Devel::Cover covers lines of code, so testing a parent and child class that inherits tests the same code (parent) twice.20:53
perlDreamerbut it makes sure that the inheritance is set up correctly20:53
perlDreamerwhich our current tests don't do20:54
perlDreamerbut I agree about it being the right thing to do20:54
perlDreamerMaybe he'd open a franchise store in Hillsboro20:55
perlDreamerall we have here is Scottish pasties, and they're a plate lunch20:55
@preactionis it like a pot pie?20:56
@preactionthose crazy english meat pies?20:56
perlDreameryeah, only with no gravy inside20:56
perlDreamerYou haven't had one yet?20:56
perlDreamerHere, I'll give you directions20:57
@preactionsounds like something my gf's grandmother made though, she put hamburger and sauerkraut in it20:57
perlDreamerGo out the front door, turn right20:57
perlDreamerto the first intersection, turn left and go down the street past the Church20:57
perlDreamerWhen you get to the capitol, walk clockwise around the block20:58
perlDreamerIt should be on the other side from where you enter, on the outside of the circle20:58
perlDreamerBuy two, and ship me the other20:58
perlDreamerNo sauerkraut, they're more like calzones with meat and vegetable/cheese fillings20:59
@preactionthat sounds like something i could get the gf to eat. must find a recipe and make some21:00
@preaction(she's a rather picky eater, which frustrates me to no end since I love experimenting in the kitchen)21:01
* perlDreamer heads off to the gym, and dreams of TeddyWedgers21:01
@preactionkeep dreamin, pal21:01
@preactionhave fun21:01
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perlmonkey2Can anyone here tell me if 512kbps is good enough upload speed to run a home server with perhaps a little bit of media (I'm thinking of switching my home service to a small business plan that allows servers in the TOS).21:08
perlmonkey2If I use my home server too often I trigger a port block on 81 and 443, and I've been using my home machine as a test box and keep triggering their "don't use residential as commercial" script21:09
@preactiondepends on what you plan on doing. i have 376kbps upstream, i just dont do much on the internet. lucky for me, my ISP doesn't give a rat's what i do. I even got them to stop firewalling me21:09
@preactionjust need to get them to allow me to control the reverse DNS for my IP and i'm allllll set21:10
perlmonkey2preaction: "don't do much on the internet".  what does that mean?  You don't serve a lot of content, or don't download a lot of content?21:10
@preactionotherwise, 512 sounds fine, just don't pay through the nose if you can shop around for a better deal on a less restrictive connection21:11
@preactioni don't serve much high-bandwidth content to the internet21:11
perlmonkey2Looks like for $80/month I can get 5 static ips, dns serving, TOS says I can run servers, and no blocked ports.21:11
perlmonkey2at 512 up and 7Mbps down.21:11
@preactionwhere? from who? where do you live again?21:12
perlmonkey2I pay $60 now for 16Mbps down and 1Mbps up, but 25, 80, 8080 are blocked and if they see to much outside traffic on any other port, they block it.21:12
@preactioni pay $50 (DSL + phone) for 1.5m/376k21:12
perlmonkey2preaction: Oklahoma city.21:12
perlmonkey2preaction: But is that a static line with servers explicity allowed?21:12
@preactionno, they aren't explicitly allowed since my ISP doesn't care. static IP and if you ask for "bridged mode" you control everything the connection does21:13
perlmonkey2preaction: you must live in a non-metro area with a smaller name hoster....21:13
@preactionSLTC (Small Local Telephone Company)21:14
perlmonkey2preaction: I have a friend who lives in the sticks and has *much* better TOS on his connection than I could pay for.21:14
@preactionright, but i couldn't get the speed of the connection you described unless i paid $300 a month for Time Warner cable21:15
@preactionthey have a "business plan" which sounds worse than anything i've ever heard21:15
perlmonkey2I only use the 16Mbps down twice a year.....when a fedora release comes out.21:16
perlmonkey2otherwise I don't view much video and only download a few songs from amazon every blue moon.21:16
@preactionoh, then the $80 sounds like a good idea21:16
perlmonkey2so 7mbps would be fine for m.e21:16
perlmonkey2but, back of envelope, to serve a 5MB image at 512kbps would take like 80 seconds.21:17
perlmonkey264KB/s :(21:17
@preactionit's the nature of the beast, internet wasn't built full-duplex, it was built producer-to-consumer. 21:18
@preactionnobody realized that it would evolve into this: everyone's a producer21:18
ckotilyah, its too bad.21:19
perlmonkey2they didn't want it to evolve that way.  The late 90's showed all the big ISP's trying to produce all the content so the sheeple would have to consume directly form them.21:19
perlmonkey2luckily they sucked21:19
ckotilaol and prodigy are the only two i can think of right now. wasn there another big one, compu-something?21:20
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@preactioncompuserve, yeah.21:22
@preactionin the end, iirc, compuserve and prodigy tried to merge to take on AOL, but then (at least in my area) the small ISPs that offered ISDN and DSL took over. and when cable came it was all over for AOL21:23
perlmonkey2Yeah, cable just can't be competed with.  21:24
perlmonkey2Around here every time ATT drops their DSL prices, Cox matches their price with twice the bandwidth.21:25
@preactionthere are certain operations that, when run from a browser, take a long time and time-out (and then stop running)21:31
@preactiondo you think some sort of hook in spectre would work to change that? delay the execution but run it through spectre (which won't time-out, hopefully)21:32
@preactioni mean, huge version tags with lots of storage locations will take 10 minutes + to delete21:33
CIA-20WebGUI: jt * r5275 /branch/colin-experimental: Created colin's branch. Only colin is allowed to commit to this branch. May he use this branch to bring swift death to his foes.21:33
perlDreamerthanks, rizen22:32
perlDreamerEven if you did go to TeddyWedger's without me :(22:32
@rizenor did you mean some other day?22:32
perlDreamerNo, I meant today22:32
perlDreamerWhat is a mekongs?22:32
@rizencuz then i've been to casbah and a bunch of other places without you as well22:33
@rizenmekongs is this vietnameese place by my house that rules22:33
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@rizenbut you've been here, you know that there are basically 100+ amazing restaurants within walking distance of my house22:34
@preactionmain reason i want to move here :p22:34
@khennapeiron wants to move here as well22:34
perlDreamerI thought khenn lived in a different here than rizen, et. al.22:35
@khennonly the cool people live in the Madison area22:35
@khennI live only 30 minutes from Madison22:35
@khennjust about a suburb =p22:35
@preactionlaugh. calling Janesville a suburb :p22:36
BartJoldelft is also nice22:37
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@rizendelft is pretty nice22:45
@rizenbut if i moved to holland i'd probably go to amsterdam22:45
@rizenbeen to both, but liked the hustle and bustle of amsterdam more22:45
@rizendelft was a little too laid back for me22:45
BartJolyeah, ok22:46
BartJolbut now I'm doubting whether I allow you to sleep on my couch22:46
BartJoldissing Delft, shame yourself22:46
BartJolbut you're right, it's a bit of a suburb22:47
@rizenyou'd let me have your couch22:47
BartJoland there is no red light district in Delft22:47
@rizenif nothing else i can call in the iou you left when you used my couch =)22:47
BartJolwell, if a plan to buy another anyway22:48
BartJolbut mine is a bit smaller22:48
BartJolbut finally i managed to install wre and webgui today, victory!22:49
BartJoli should feel ashamed, for not being enough nerd22:49
perlDreamerno, you should be proud of yourself that you're learning22:50
BartJolyeah, now the next step, programming a macro or something like that22:51
perlDreameryou could write a test, too22:51
perlDreamermuch easier than writing a macro22:51
* perlDreamer goes to a meeting. grrr22:52
BartJolwhat kind of test?22:52
BartJoloh, bye colin22:53
perlDreameron second thought, write a macro, then I'll teach you how to test it22:57
perlDreamerthat would be even better22:57
BartJolooh, sounds nice22:58
BartJolthere was some topic on a kind of addKarma function, so I was thinking of writing something for that22:59
@apeironMacros are easy. If you can do HTML, you can do macros. :)23:01
CIA-20WebGUI: chrisn * r5276 /wrebuild/wre/lib/WRE/Spectre.pm: 23:03
CIA-20WebGUI: WRE::Spectre::getPriorities was processing the report data incorrectly, causing23:03
CIA-20WebGUI: false positives. Fix this. Lesson of the day: Don't Be Clever. (PBP pg. 453)23:03
BartJolwell a bit of html is not out of my limits23:03
BartJolI was talking about http://www.plainblack.com/etcetera/website-referral-program#rcI4lRnABODsdixksvxf0g23:05
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@rizenperlDreamer, you're giving yourself more work?23:48
@rizenare you crazy?23:48
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BartJolhi Mr23:50
BartJolyeah that's me23:51
+MrHairgreasei know23:51
BartJolworking tomorrow?23:52
+MrHairgreasebeer tomorrow?23:52
BartJolto celebrate my first wegbgui install23:53
* MrHairgrease starts practicing for tomorrow already23:53
--- Day changed Fri Jan 11 2008
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nubathe only difference between http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/wobject/asset-migration-guide and porting-wobjects-to-webgui-version-7 is that titles are numbered in the former00:50
BartJolmm I saw something strange, might be a caching problem, but I refreshed a couple of times and cleared the cache00:52
BartJolin 7.4.20-> admin console-> users->profile00:52
BartJolthe option button browse for a photo is in dutch00:53
BartJoland everything else is in english00:55
BartJolthe text is "Bladeren"00:55
BartJolbut in i18n, cat * |grep Bladeren doesn't show anything00:55
nubalooks like the dutch are invading webgui surreptitiously00:56
BartJolI did install the dutch package00:56
BartJolyeah, Koen want to take over PB since JT got more results while googling themselves00:57
nubadid you find any beer when you opened the package?00:57
BartJolwell, there is some next to my laptop and some in my stomach00:58
+MrHairgreasebart try `grep -R laderen *` from the lib dir00:58
BartJolit's thinking00:59
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BartJolwell, looks ok, probably the caching anyway01:07
BartJolwill look again tomorrow01:08
BartJolwell, going to sleep01:09
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metanilcurrently i cannot send and receive mail within WebGUI. any links that discuss about this?01:38
metanili think i need to create smtp server on my machine.01:39
metanili've got  main::[[undef]] - Couldn't connect to mail server: localhost error in webgui.log01:53
perlDreamerrizen: BartJol is part of the Dutch team.  He's like family.  I'll teach him testing.02:13
perlDreameror were you talking about someting else?02:13
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metanilwhy "photo gallery" and "request tracker" assets redirected to Collaboration System?02:35
metanilwiki says its content prototyping02:37
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perlDreamermetanil, those are content prototypes, specially preconfigured Collaboaration Systems that are setup as a Photo Gallery and Request Tracker02:46
+Radix-wrkthe collaboration system is incredibly flexible - so it's used for several things - just using different templates.02:46
metanilhmm.. i am exploring it.. 02:47
+Radix-wrkYeah, as PD said, they're prototypes02:47
+Radix-wrkyou can create your own prototypes too - I have one in my system called Flash Gallery that I've set up using my own custom template02:47
metanilhave link?02:48
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+Radix-wrkI haven't shared it as it's kinda specific to how we do things02:48
metaniloh.. thats ok02:49
+Radix-wrkour webserver has a small internet link, so we tend to use a us host to store all of our larger files/data/downloads on02:49
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+Radix-wrkSo I created a flash gallery template that expects the files to be in a certain location on our remote server :)02:50
metanilthats ok .. just want to see other prototypes02:50
+Radix-wrkthat's an example of it in use if you wanted to see it02:51
+Radix-wrkit works great - as our developers can easily create flash movies of our software and just upload it and describe it and don't have to worry about the html/flash side of things02:52
+Radix-wrkwe use it all the time now to show off new features and as part of our online training videos02:52
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+Radix-wrkthe nice thing about that template is it has all the styling embedded into it.. two tone colouring, picture borders and drop shadowing, play button, etc02:55
+Radix-wrktemplating is where webgui really shows it's flexibility and power imho :)02:58
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+Radix-wrkwhoah.. party in the WG house.. everyone's on tonight!02:59
+Radix-wrkjust need PD and you'll have a who's who of webgui online :)02:59
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metanilwhy its not showing the security tab (while editing article) even i'm in Admin group??03:58
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metanilI cannot see security tab while editing page layout.. actually i change the owner of that pagelayout to current users... is this a problem?04:34
perlmonkey2bah, all these PHP CMS's tick me off.04:43
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metanilanybody know how to change the rank of asset in asset manager?05:08
metaniloops.. we can do it easily by drag n drop.. 05:15
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SDuensinAt least it's FRIDAY morning!16:00
+Radix_for you maybe :)16:07
+Radix_Friday is almost over here ;)16:07
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+MrHairgreaseI must be suffering from friday afternoon brainlessness16:23
+MrHairgreasebut I try to add a field to the edit func of a custom asset16:23
+MrHairgreasebut for some reason i don't get it to work16:23
+MrHairgreasehere it is: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m3d85570316:23
+MrHairgreaseI've done this a million time before but it just won't show up this time16:24
+MrHairgreaseno errors or whatever16:24
+MrHairgreasethe readOnly field just doesn't show up16:24
+MrHairgreaseanybody an idea?16:24
SDuensinSure you're editing in the right place?  I do that a lot - edit in a backup copy or a test directory and not my live file.16:24
SDuensinThat's all I got.  :-(16:26
* SDuensin isn't a WebGUI API guy.16:26
+MrHairgreaseI am16:26
+MrHairgreasethat's the worst part16:26
+MrHairgreaseI must be screwing something up16:26
+MrHairgreasebut I just cannot find it16:27
nubarestarted apache, or using Apache2::Reload ?16:29
nubacould it be missing the -name ?16:32
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+MrHairgreasebut i know what's wrong now16:33
+MrHairgreaseand I suck16:33
+MrHairgreaseSubroutine getEditForm redefined at ....16:33
* MrHairgrease is banging his head againt the wall16:33
+MrHairgreaseit is not funny!!!!16:34
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GeeKinpuThello everyone!!!16:53
+MrHairgreasehi geekinput16:55
GeeKinpuTI just installed CentOS and I'm on the firewall screen, and I was wondering if I have to pick www(http) from the trusted services in order to run WebGUI or any other service.16:55
+MrHairgreaseif you want to use webgui you should obviously open port 8016:56
+MrHairgreasethe wre also uses port 81 and 330616:57
+MrHairgreasebut connects to those through localhost16:57
GeeKinpuTso I don't have to pick anything but the www service?16:57
GeeKinpuTdo i have to have MySQL and mod_perl previously installed, or do they get added with WRE?16:58
+MrHairgreasethe wre includes them16:59
+MrHairgreaseyou cannot hgave another mysql on the box you run the wre on16:59
+MrHairgreasealso you cannot have an apache on either port 80 and 8116:59
+MrHairgreaseit's in the docs if I'm correct17:00
+MrHairgreasein /data/wre/docs/install.txt17:00
+MrHairgreaseor something like that17:00
GeeKinpuTso pretty much I don't need to have neither apache, mysql or perl installed on the box because the are included with WRE, right?17:00
+MrHairgreaseyou can have perl installed17:01
+Radix_don't need it tho17:01
+MrHairgreasedepends on your distro17:01
+MrHairgreaseubuntu debian need perl to do packagemanagement and other admin tasks17:01
+MrHairgreasedunno if the same applies to centos though17:02
+Radix_yeah, I think it's hard to avoid perl with centos too, but don't need it by default17:02
GeeKinpuTcool, thanks.17:02
GeeKinpuTC YA17:02
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+Radix_i noticed that the wre is configured to use port 80 and 8081 now too17:03
+Radix_at least the wre-source is17:03
+Radix_that's what the new wre console uses by default17:03
+MrHairgreasein that case it's 80, 8081 and 330617:03
+Radix_you can pick which ports you want to run them on tho17:04
+MrHairgreasethe wreconsole uses 6083417:04
+MrHairgreaseby default17:04
+Radix_I set mine to 80/81 just because it was familiar :)17:04
+Radix_and configured the distro version of apache (with php, etc) to run on port 82 :)17:04
+MrHairgreaseyeah i did somethiong similar17:05
+MrHairgreasebecause I needed a php apache too17:05
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+MrHairgreasedoes anybody know the speed difference between template toolkit and html::template?17:37
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ckotilpretty sure template toolkit is more advanced and allows you to do more17:46
ckotilmore what i dont really know. havent played with it yet17:46
+MrHairgreasebut is it much slower17:46
+MrHairgreaseoh ok17:46
+MrHairgreaseme neither17:46
ckotilim pushing h:t:e as far as it can go right now.17:46
ckotilmight have to switch to tt soon17:46
+MrHairgreasei'm still using h::t exclusively17:47
+MrHairgreasebut it's a pain17:47
ckotili bet.17:47
+MrHairgreasein some cases17:47
ckotili had to do some qwirky things such as make a link a differnet color if it pointed to something that was only viewable by a certain group.17:50
ckotilhad to ues h:t:e17:50
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teflond0nanyone here using mac osX for their install base18:36
perlDreamerwG is developed on Mac OS X18:36
teflond0nI'm having permissions issues on the upload folder18:36
teflond0nsometimes the uploads work - others they dont18:36
perlDreamerhave you checked the permissions of the folder and all subfolders?18:37
teflond0nwhat I need to know is what should the permissions be set for the uploads folder18:37
teflond0nis there a particular "user/group" that needs certain permissions18:37
perlDreamerit needs to be readable and writable by the same user used by Apache18:38
teflond0nso would that be the WebGUI user?18:38
perlDreamerI don't use the WRE, but I would guess so18:38
teflond0nis there a security risk with giving webgui rwx permissions on the uploads folder?18:39
perlDreamernot really18:40
teflond0nwhat about the wheel group having rwx permissions18:40
nubacheck the first column of "ps auxwww | grep /data/wre/prereqs/apache/bin/httpd" if you use the wre18:41
perlDreamerthat sounds like it could be a standard WRE setup.  It's probably explained in the WebGUI Admin book18:42
teflond0nim not seeing an apache folder in /data/wre/prereqs18:44
nubateflond0n: i have here the wre 0.7.x18:44
nubaits not the latest18:44
nubayou can use this to find exactly what users are being used by apache (modproxy and modperl)18:46
nubafind /data/wre/prereqs/apache/conf -type f  | xargs grep -E '^User'18:46
nubaof course you need to adapth the path to your wre setup18:46
nubaafterwards to ajust the ownership do a chown -R username /data/domains/*/public18:53
nubaagain, of course adjusting the username and the path accordingly to your local setup18:53
nubamakes sense ?18:57
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nubahope he got it before timing out...18:59
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perlmonkey2WebGUI woudln't interfer with apache settings on compressing content would it?19:09
perlDreamerOf course not!19:10
perlDreamerHow dare you insinuate that.19:10
perlDreamerWhy, is it happening? :)19:10
perlmonkey2I wouldn't have imagined so as the admin would have to change that setting as far as I understand.19:10
perlmonkey2perlDreamer: No, but I'm looking for all the excuses in the world to move my personal net connection to a static connection, but my upstream gets cut in half when I do that.19:10
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dionakquick question about the isInGroup method in User.pm. Will it return true if the user is in a group that is a member of the groupId passed in? 22:23
dionakin other words, parent/child relationships of groups?22:25
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elninoif I do a count of assets of the class "page layout" will that give me the number of pages on my site?22:27
elnino(as a sql query)22:27
@preactionnot really. assets don't need page layouts to be a "page"22:44
elninowell. I know we don't have assets as "pages" themselves. So I should be ok. right?22:45
@preactionit will be inaccurate in any case, since "pages" are not really defined in WebGUI22:46
@preactionalso, you might want to restrict it to certain sections of the site22:46
@preactionbut if it's just a statistic you're looking for, go for it22:46
@preactionall statistics are wrong anyway, but nobody remembers that when they're looking at it22:46
@preactioni mean, each thread in a collab is not part of a page layout, but might be considered a "page" by someone22:47
elnino=)  I'm trying tofigure out how many "pages" we have because alot of these 'free indexes" limit it to 500 pages, and I think we're close.22:47
elninohmm. forgot about those threads.22:48
elninoI should have said that we don't use "article assets" as pages. so I'm thinking if I count page layouts, threads, I should be close.22:49
@preactionEvents for calendars too22:53
@preactionand etc... 22:53
elninooh geez. thanks!  sneaky little assets.  I appreciate your input!22:54
@preactionif you're going for Search Engine Optimization, you may as well stop now. most of it is snake-oil except the part where it comes to implementing the w3c standards and using semantic markup22:54
elninodon't tell that to my mktg person. The seo consultant has been already hired...22:55
@preactioni wish i could be an SEO consultant, they make so much money for doing nothing22:55
@preactionput a stupid link farm on the site, which ends up depressing the Page Rank22:56
elninomy thoughts exactly.22:56
@preactionoh, and yell at your designers for not being semantic22:57
@preactiondo stupid things with headline tags, like use h3 for paragraphs, because h3 is "more important to search engines"22:58
@rizendionak: yes22:58
elninogot that one covered. I insisted that they *didn't* give me the html. I recreated their "design" myself.  22:59
CIA-20WebGUI: chrisn * r5277 /WebGUI/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt: Fix Freudian slip in widget entry: s/templatize/widgetize/23:03
@apeironhttp://www.frozen-perl.org/mpw2008/schedule <-- can I have a clone for that day so I can go to both tracks?23:07
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elnino_I'm trying to implement the Sitemap thingy on our site, and according to the wiki there is a macro called LastModifiedPage. I don't have this, is this a newer macro? I'm using 7.22.* somthing or other.23:09
@preactionit's just called LastModified23:11
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dionakrizen: thanks. 23:12
elnino_Thatn's what I thought. And afer I "fixed" he wiki, I realized that in her example, she is passsing in thhe url - which is not a parameter for the distributed "LastModified" macro that I'm accusom to.23:12
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perlmonkey2dang, I really need another dev to bounce ideas off of (I'm the only dev at my work).  For the JS side of the survey system, each object was responsible for changing all its display characteristics and then clearing what came before.  This turned into a mess.  Duh, have a display manager that takes a request for display, then tells the requester to display itself and whatever was displayed before to clear itself.  One central singleton f23:57
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@preactionanyone here think of any features they'd want in an IRC bot in this channel? i've already thought of RSS Notification (for webgui news, plainblack news). bug and rfe searching. wiki searching (for the webgui help wiki)05:01
+Radix_message delivery for offline users?05:03
@preactionyou can do that already with memoserv on this network05:03
@preactionthough only for registered users05:03
+Radix_Ahh k05:03
+Radix_I've seen it in other irc servers, not this one tho :)05:04
@preactioni was thinking user lookup if the user's profile was public, but i don't think most people on plainblack/webgui.org realize they (a) have profiles (b) have private profiles05:04
@preactionfreenode has seenserv, which i've only seen here05:04
@preactionyou can message seenserv seen "nickname" and it will tell you the last time the user was on the network05:04
+Radix_Well the features you've proposed are great to me05:05
@preactionmight add SVN / repo log polling, so we can get rid of CIA-20 (since it's completely out of our control)05:05
@preactionbut CIA-20 does increase exposure for webgui (since it's yet another site the project is registered on)05:06
@preactionoh, i want to add "dig <domain> [@host]" so that we can lookup DNS, and other networking troubleshooting issues05:06
+Radix_sounds good05:07
@preactionmight try to do something like "wg info <domain>" to get information about someone's site, like what version of WebGUI, what version of apache, etc...05:07
@preactionwe should add something about the WRE in the WRE's apache's ServerTokens05:08
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metanilcan't we add individual description per image within a Photo gallery. (not just description for group of images).?08:27
@preactionyou could make a single post per image, but there's a better way to make a photo gallery: Image assets inside of a Folder. use the "synopsis" field of the Image to make a description09:14
@preactionmetanil, of course, there's a proper Gallery asset coming up in 7.5.0, but you'll be able to migrate your stuff from either the "Photo Gallery" (which is a collaboration system actually) or the Folder w/ Images i just described09:15
ckotilive done a simlliar thing w/ the folder asset turning it into a 'file reposity'09:32
@preactionyeah, Gallery will eventually replace that (since Gallery allows more controls over normal users, plus comments, plus a better programming API)09:36
ckotilyeah? sweet. think it could work as a file repository too?09:37
@preactionyes, that's the idea09:38
@preactionthat's why it's not called Photo Gallery asset. it will be for files, movies, flash, images, etc...09:39
@preactioni wonder how the Slideshow will be implemented with Flash (but i'm excited at the prospect of having both Flickr AND YouTube with the same Gallery asset)09:40
@preactionslideshow == playlist. users can use the "make shortcut" feature to create their own playlists (for a youtube-style site)09:40
@preactionif someone can do what Viddler did and integrate the comments feature right into the flash player itself, that would be awesome09:40
ckotilsounds awsome.09:41
ckotilim off to bed. night.09:42
CIA-20WebGUI: doug * r5278 /WebGUI/ (5 files in 4 dirs): 10:03
CIA-20WebGUI: fix: Mails sent from WebGUI now wrap at 78 characters to prevent a problem with10:03
CIA-20WebGUI: SMTP servers that do not accept lines longer than 998 characters. This is per10:03
CIA-20WebGUI: the SMTP RFCs. Added testing for this fix, still much to test for10:03
CIA-20WebGUI: WebGUI::Mail::Send. Added API method to facilitate testing.10:03
CIA-20WebGUI: doug * r5279 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (5 files in 4 dirs): backport 527810:03
@preactionok, that is far too much spam... imma make a better bot for that10:06
CIA-20WebGUI: doug * r5280 /WebGUI/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt: change attribution for bug report10:18
metanilthanks preaction.10:24
CIA-20WebGUI: doug * r5281 /branch/doug-experimental/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Nightly checkin because you forgot14:04
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perlmonkey2So quiet21:34
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perlmonkey2Very quiet.22:30
+perlDreamersssh, I'm trying to concentrate22:35
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* perlmonkey2 just finished his 4th rewrite of the sections and questions handlers for the survey system. But I think I've finally found a paradigm I like. Writing good clean JS is harder than I thought.23:34
perlmonkey2Anyone interested in looking at it now, here's the link: http://www.lostokies.com:81/javascript/editsurvey.js  Drag and drop are active but don't reorder yet.  Sections don't open and close their questions yet.  And you can't add answers.  But hopefully that will all change in a few hours now that I can stop repeating my work.23:36
+perlDreameryeah, why didn't someone think of integrating perl into the browser 10 years ago?23:36
perlmonkey2perlDreamer: That would be incredible.  I sometimes here on #perl6 that perl6 might live in a parrot-clientside interperter23:37
+perlDreamerperl6 will be in a parrot interpreter.  Do you mean that there will be a browser plugin for parrot?23:38
perlmonkey2perlDreamer: I'm not sure it is a plugin, but integrated into mozilla products which could force it into IE.23:39
perlmonkey2since parrot will execute JS, Python, etc.  23:39
perlmonkey2it could replace the JS engine.23:39
perlmonkey2more than mere words can describe.23:40
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beginwebguihello people02:51
beginwebguii want to show all users profiles on the site. Where should i start as i am beginner to webgui. Do i have to create marcro.. or template variable. However, i can change Operation/User.pm to return the profile. But how can i get them from the website and display??02:53
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beginwebguihello people05:24
beginwebguii want to show all users profiles on the site. Where should i start as i am beginner to webgui. Do i have to create marcro.. or template variable. However, i can change Operation/User.pm to return the profile. But how can i get them from the website and display??05:24
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beginwebguii have created a macro which will query the database and return formatted(HTML) results. Couldn't i use this macro in the description of an article asset?. I could use this macro in template but i just want this in a article/"page layout".05:40
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Syn2the WRE rocks!17:07
Syn2sky high17:07
* preaction &17:08
Syn2does that sound familiar?17:11
+MrHairgreasekoen what server is that?17:14
Syn2that is a new virtual server17:15
Syn2with wre 0.8.117:15
Syn2and webgui 7.4.2017:15
+MrHairgreasei know it's related to a bug i found some moths ago17:15
+MrHairgreaseand that looks like error code i built in17:16
+MrHairgreasei guess it comes from the patch i attached to the report17:16
+MrHairgreasedunno what causes it though17:17
+MrHairgreasei'm pretty sure i knew it17:17
+MrHairgreasebut i forgot17:17
Syn2do you know what bug it was?17:18
+MrHairgreasejust grep the source code for Group->new17:18
+MrHairgreasethe bug was that wg::group just ignored the fact that the group did not exist17:18
+MrHairgreaseand just let you do stuff on non-existant groups17:18
+MrHairgreasewhich is bad17:18
+MrHairgreasesince it did screw something up indirectly17:19
Syn2and that bug was fixed in which version?17:19
+MrHairgreaseif it happens the code triggering it should handle it17:21
+MrHairgreaseif it doesn't you'll know because now it returns undef17:21
+MrHairgreasewhich causes a fatal error if you don't handle it17:21
+MrHairgreasesince you cannot excute methods on undefined vars17:22
+MrHairgreasebut now i gotta  get groceries before the store closes17:22
Syn2the code is in WebGUI/Group.pm17:23
+MrHairgreaseit was added ion rev 473317:23
+MrHairgreaseby graham17:23
Syn2the strange thing is..17:28
Syn2I cannot find out where Ln8bEGAqHJpOmoqQF7OfNw is coming from17:28
+MrHairgreaseof course b/c it does not exist17:28
Syn2its not in  select groupId from groups;17:28
Syn2I don't get it17:29
+MrHairgreaseLn8bEGAqHJpOmoqQF7OfNw is a non-existant groupId17:29
Syn2WebGUI has to get that id from somewhere17:29
+MrHairgreasehence the rror17:29
+MrHairgreasethat can come from a lot of places17:30
Syn2it adds a line to the log every time I visit a page on that site17:30
+MrHairgreaseeach time with adifferent id?17:30
Syn2the same each time17:30
Syn2over and over again17:30
Syn2I guess it has something to do with importing packages17:31
+MrHairgreaseit's probably the subscription groupId of a collaboration system17:31
Syn2but there are no collaboration systems on that site17:32
+MrHairgreaseor an asset with viewgroup id set to that17:32
+MrHairgreasetry something like this17:32
+MrHairgreaseselect assetId from assetData where groupIdView = 'Ln8bEGAqHJpOmoqQF7OfNw'17:33
Syn2hang on17:33
Syn2quite some lines found17:34
+MrHairgreaseso what has happened is this17:34
+MrHairgreaseyou had some group with that group id17:34
Syn2in the old site17:34
+MrHairgreaseand set the view group of a number oif assets to it17:34
Syn2and I imported them17:34
+MrHairgreasethen at some time you deleted that group17:34
Syn2from a package17:34
+MrHairgreaseyeah that must be it in your case17:35
Syn2and the package import doesn't reset the permissions17:35
+MrHairgreasereset to what17:35
Syn2would you consider that a bug in the package import?17:35
Syn2reset to a 'default' group17:35
+MrHairgreaseb/c there's no way for the import system to know what that default group is17:35
+MrHairgreaseafter import17:36
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+MrHairgreasejust do a edeit branch17:36
Syn2that I understand17:36
+MrHairgreaseand set em yourself17:36
Syn2I will17:36
+MrHairgreaseyou could make it an rfe i guess17:36
+MrHairgreaseto let the imported asset inherit the perms of their prent asset17:36
Syn2an rfe for: warn for non-existant groups when importing17:36
+MrHairgreaseif you wanna know for sure if it's a bug17:36
Syn2or inherit the perms of the parent indeed17:37
+MrHairgreaseask the pb guys17:37
Syn2the fastest way for that is just to submit a bug report17:37
+MrHairgreasebut i'm ging to the stre now17:37
Syn2if it isn't considered a bug the bug report will be closed17:37
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Syn2re=hallo again19:09
+MrHairgreaseare you on drugs again?19:10
Syn2if you'd call potter's drugs19:10
Syn2then yes19:10
+MrHairgreaseI'm on pan tostado's19:10
Syn2I went to the emergency exit yesterday19:11
+MrHairgreasemuch better19:11
+MrHairgreaseoh crap19:11
+MrHairgreaseforgot about that19:11
Syn2it was fabulous!19:11
perlmonkey2I need help on the WebGUI survey.  On the DOM side, I have a UL full of LI's indexed on their ID.  A section has an id of S# and a question has an id of Q#.  Functionally, sections and questions are objects.  A section has an array of questions which belong to it (In the DOM, their LI occurs directly below the section's LI.  The problem is how best to map the section's array of questions model to the DOM single list model.20:17
perlmonkey2When you drag a section below another section, the first section should be moved below the last question of the second section, and all the first section's questions should also be moved in order.  20:18
perlmonkey2Hah, the programmers stone is right.  Just trying to explain the problem provides key insight to the questioner.20:19
perlmonkey2The whole thing is simple  Since a question knows which section it belongs to (When a new question is added, the highlighted section is used, or if no section is highlighted, the last section), when the user drags a section onto a question belonging to another section, simply move that section and all its questions below the last question in the new section.  20:22
perlmonkey2Does anyone have a better way to move these objects than by deleting the existing dom object and creating new ones, appended to the bottom question node?20:23
perlmonkey2So if section A was drug onto question 23 of section B, we would tell section A and all its questions to delete their dom nodes.  Then we would get the last dom node of question B and tell section A to append itself to that node, and all its questions following.  So sections need a method to delete their nodes, then create a new need after a given node.  Then loop through all their questions telling them to append to the node in front of20:27
perlmonkey2hah, I think that will work.20:27
perlmonkey2But now we need to renumber everything......which will be a nightmare since references to other objects are everywhere.  I need to use a different parameter, besides the objects' index, for storing order of presentation.  That way referential integrity isn't forever broken because I can't track down every reference to an id, when the id has to change because everything was reordred.20:31
perlmonkey2So reordering is as simple as after a drag and drop, going from the beginning of the list to the end and updating the order param by adding one to the order param in the previous node.  20:32
Syn2wre 0.8.1 error21:29
Syn2http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/pdf2txt_pl-points-to-non-existing-prereqs/bin/pdf2txt/1 is the same21:30
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CIA-20WebGUI: doug * r5282 /branch/doug-experimental/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Nightly checkin because you forgot14:05
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* perlmonkey2 is completely stuck on the survey module.16:46
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@preactionperlmonkey2, being completely stuck is a bad thing16:49
perlmonkey2yes......it sucks.....chased my tail all weekend.16:50
perlmonkey2http://www.lostokies.com:81/tree.html add a few questions and sections then tell me the use cases for dragging them around......16:51
perlmonkey2questions should belong to sections, and sections just contain a header for the survey section plus metadata for how the questions it holds should behave.16:52
@preactionwhat if some suit decides that asking about a person's demographics should occur first? or asking question about salary should be before asking their age-group16:53
perlmonkey2That's the point of making sections draggable.  If you have demographics section at the end of the survey, but decide to make it first, you can simply drag it to the top.16:54
perlmonkey2and all its questoins will go to the top with it.16:54
perlmonkey2wait....I have a very simple solution.....I'm going to play with tis for a second.  every question and section has a unique id.  Order is completely ignored until submission, where the order everythign is in is recorded.16:55
perlmonkey2Which means I can't have Section 1, I'll just say "Section: sectiontext.substr(1..25)" in the section block.16:56
perlmonkey2not having to track order when the users are dragging and dropping makes it a billion times easier.16:56
@preactionamen to that16:56
perlmonkey2But is that okay?  Won't users like being able to reference "Question 17"16:58
perlmonkey2Instead of "in the second section about 20 questoins in, is the multiple choice asking about widgets"16:58
@preactionbut if the survey works right, there are questions they might never see, correct?16:59
@preactionso if the numbering is pre-assigned, they'll wonder about the questions they "missed"16:59
perlmonkey2preaction: The survey taker, yes.16:59
perlmonkey2but this for the survey editor.17:00
@preactionthey could both just use the question itself. or if necessary you could assign them a small ID string17:00
@preactionor even keep the numbering, just re-number them each time they're moved around maybe? durno really17:01
perlmonkey2that's what I've been trying.17:01
perlmonkey2hmm.....If I just kept the order info local for each section, then I could have two Questions 1's as long as they were in two seperate sections.17:03
perlmonkey2That would remove the problems I was having of updating every single question's order during a drag and drop.17:03
@preactionah. so S1Q1 and S2Q117:03
perlmonkey2Bah, the problem is these things take like 2-4 hours to implement in code, until I realize the paradigm is too complex to be really viable.17:04
perlmonkey2But I like that......It means I only have to update order in the local section (or two sections if the question is drug to another section).  but it limits the scope of the effects on the rest of the survey.17:05
@preactionbtw, your UI is beautiful and intuitive17:06
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perlmonkey2preaction: You are the first person to say it looks nice....thank you very much.17:11
wgGuest53Hi!  Is this the place to ask questions?17:12
@preactionjust one of many places17:12
wgGuest53i was wanting to use the project manager and time tracker.  Can that be used to track time for various users?17:12
@preactionuhm... uhmmmmm.... uhhhhhhmmmmmmm..... have you tried them out? played around with them?17:13
wgGuest53I just installed them and I can see where i can track my time, but can a person log on without admin rights?  Maybe that should be the question I'm asking.17:14
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+MrHairgreasei have this one site running 7.3.2217:14
@preactionyes, people can log on without admin rights if they have an account17:14
@preactionMrHairgrease, get with the times, man17:14
+MrHairgreaseand all content in the uploads directories is delivered anyway regardless of the contents of .wgaccess17:15
+MrHairgreaseany idea what it can be?17:15
@preactionMrHairgrease, using WRE and mod_proxy instance?17:15
@preactionthe mod_proxy instance doesn't check .wgaccess17:16
@preactionyou need WebGUI to do that, and mod_proxy doesn't have WebGUI17:16
+MrHairgreasebut i can tell modproxy to deliver the uploads request through webgui right17:17
@preactionyes, there should be a line in wre/etc/yoursite.modproxy17:17
* MrHairgrease is checking it out17:18
+MrHairgreasehang on17:18
+MrHairgreaseuncommenting it now17:18
@preactionyou mean commenting? the line should be a rewriterule that stops the proxy from happening17:19
+MrHairgreasecrappy wifi17:21
+MrHairgreasekeeps dropping my connection17:22
+MrHairgrease#       RewriteRule ^/uploads/ - [L]17:22
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+MrHairgreasenow it works17:22
+MrHairgreaseas intended17:22
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+MrHairgreasei see17:22
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+MrHairgreasei meant commenting it out17:23
+MrHairgreasenot uncommenting17:23
+MrHairgreaseit's the dutch <-> english thing17:23
@preactionyeah, blame it on the translation ;-)17:23
+MrHairgreasein the Netherlands i would say i were to 'outcomment' it17:23
+MrHairgreasehence the typo17:23
@preactionnot another one of your Dutch "liquid lunches"17:23
* MrHairgrease is running to the coffe machine17:23
@preactionirish coffee?17:24
+MrHairgreasesomething like that17:24
+MrHairgreasebut w/o the coffee17:24
BartJolliquid lunch? where?17:24
+MrHairgreasecause it distracts you from the key point of irish coffee17:24
@preactionoutcomment makes sense, since we say "comment out"17:24
+MrHairgreasesure it does17:25
+MrHairgreasebut it is a wrong word17:25
+MrHairgreaseuncommenting is not as far as i know17:25
@preactioncrazy bavarian compound-words17:25
+MrHairgreaseso i just migled that 17:25
+MrHairgreasei'm not german17:25
@preactionnear enough that their decadent culture is gnawing at your mind ;)17:26
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@preaction(he says as he sits in the middle of red-neck, white-bread, over-religious Amerika)17:27
* MrHairgrease thinks preaction should go back herding his cows17:27
+MrHairgreaseor whatever people do in wisconsin17:27
@preactiondefinately the cows17:27
@preactionspoiling milk to make gold17:27
+MrHairgreasethanks for the help17:27
+MrHairgreasei couldn't understand why the uploadhandler wasn't beiong called17:28
+MrHairgreasebut now it makes sence17:28
perlmonkey2I'm totally screwed17:28
perlmonkey2I just got an email "When do you expect to have the survey system ready for testing/trainign.  We need to schedule a visit from a visiting grant sponsor from Sandia labs to train on it."17:29
+MrHairgreaseso tell em to schdule it next year =)17:29
@preactionyay deadlines!17:29
perlmonkey2hah, I like next year !17:30
perlmonkey2Once I finish the survey system, how long does it normally take for a new core system, developed outside of PB, to be incorporated?17:31
perlmonkey2My people want to know how long it will have to be used as a seperate Wobject rather than a core component.17:31
perlmonkey2I guess this depends a lot on if it is a POS :P17:32
@preactioni believe JT has said that the feature freeze is happening at the end of this month17:32
perlmonkey2well if it isn't done by then, it probably isn't getting done.17:32
@preactionso probably the 7.6 dev cycle then, which we're starting 6-month release cycles17:32
@preactionthe 23rd he said was the first of the beta releases of 7.5, but he said he might give PB a day during our yearly meeting to implement whatever RFEs we want that have bugged us17:33
@preactionso i think features might still be added after the 7.5 releases get started17:34
perlmonkey2sweet........that is great news.17:34
@preactioni believe we've got the Survey, the Maps that nuba (i think) is working on, and someone is doing the Thingy (but not sure who or the status of it)17:34
perlmonkey2I'm excited about Thingy.17:34
@preactionif that holds true, i might even be able to get the Asset Report into 7.517:35
perlmonkey2No idea what it really does, but it sounds cool.17:35
@preactionas an application, it's huge. from what i understand, it's like MS Access17:35
@preactionyou can create a database, create forms and reports for that database17:35
@preactioncreate templates for those reports and forms17:35
perlmonkey2programming logic in the forms?17:36
@preactioni would hope17:36
perlmonkey2so you could say, if answer A go to question 2 if answer B go to question 3?17:36
@preactioni think it's more of a simple database. it's the DataForm, SQLForm, and more rolled into one17:36
@preactionaddress book, contacts, almost like a CRM, but not that powerful17:37
@preactiondunno what the actual definition of a CRM is, what makes those different from just a database, but whatevz17:38
@preactionand the most fun about JS applications inside of asset edit forms: you're already in a form. but you don't know which form, where it is, how it is, or what it contains17:39
@preactionso it's going to be a slew of "getElementsByTagName" and ugly functions to get and set the values i need to get and set...17:40
perlmonkey2for the Thingy?17:42
perlmonkey2it is going to be mostly implemented in JS?17:42
@preactionno, i'm not doing the thingy. i'm making the Asset Report, which is inheriting from a generic Report framework17:43
perlmonkey2yes, that sounds painful.17:43
@preactionthe Report framework is going to allow multiple views, each view having a different template and style (so you could make RSS feeds with a Report subclass, or XML feeds, or JSON feeds, or whatever)17:43
@preactioni've at least got a decent system in place, just whenever i have to write javascript my brain turns to mush. especially when there are no puzzles left to solve17:44
perlmonkey2oh yes....javascript is more tedious than Java.17:45
+MrHairgreasejs sucks17:45
perlmonkey2when I think I've got the arch of the applicatoin figured out, implementing it in JS is like hammering nails into my kneecap.17:45
+MrHairgreasedo you guys know this book17:46
+MrHairgreaseit's pretty good17:46
perlmonkey2nope, I have a 5 year old O'reilly book.....But I don't really need a book much for JS anymore.17:46
+MrHairgreaseit's about the only book that has helped me wrap my mind around how to write readable and maintainable javascript stuff17:47
@preactioni find my JS is becoming a mixture of BSD-style C and PBP-style Perl17:47
+MrHairgreasebut that's not the best way to code in js17:48
perlmonkey2MrHairgrease: I may have to order it then.  Does this look maintainable to you? http://www.lostokies.com:81/javascript/editsurvey.js17:48
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+MrHairgreaseit has global vars17:49
+MrHairgreasewhich suck17:49
@preactionyeah, globals are bad17:50
@preactionput them in your namespace instead17:50
+MrHairgreasethat's one thing the book explains17:50
@preactionsame with your functions: WebGUI.Survey.functionName = function ( args ) { ... }17:50
+MrHairgreasebut it still have to get my feet wet with large js apps17:50
perlmonkey2preaction: but that makes it a singleton.17:52
@preactioni suppose i might be mad for saying so: you can get away with that, since there will never be more than one survey management system per page17:52
@preactionwill there?17:52
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perlmonkey2This is for editing the survey, so I know it won't conflict, since you'd never edit two surveys, let alone two systems on the same page.17:54
+MrHairgreaseyou should read the prototypal inheritance articlke on that page17:54
@preactionand it doesn't have to be a singleton, if you have an object constructor: WebGUI.Survey.Manager, then you can add methods to it via WebGUI.Survey.Manager.prototype.functionName = function ( args ) {...}17:54
perlmonkey2And for the display, it won't involve much JS.  Probably just submit and reload with ajax....but maybe not for version 1.  Probably do the survey executation as normal CGI.17:54
perlmonkey2But then there will only be 1 WebGUI.Survey.Manager.17:55
perlmonkey2I need a question object for every question created.17:55
perlmonkey2I guess I could create WebGUI.Survey.Questions and just make all the members arrays, and then question 1 would be found in the zero index of the arrays, q2 in the 1 index, ect.  But that sounds backwards.17:57
@preactionthat's what the prototype can be used for: WebGUI.Survey.Question = function ( ) { }; WebGUI.Survey.Question.prototype.MethodName = function { ... }; var q = new WebGUI.Survey.Question; q.MethodName <- calls my method17:58
+MrHairgreasethe book describes all this stuff17:59
+MrHairgreasein various ways17:59
+MrHairgreaseand also how 'this' behaves17:59
perlmonkey2preaction: Look at the Display Manager17:59
perlmonkey2You are saying I could do var dm = new WebGUI.DM; and dm would contain a second instance of the WebGUI.DM object?18:00
perlmonkey2Which is cool, but in order to clean up the namespace, you create superfulous instances of objects, since the first instance of WebGUI.DM would never be used.18:01
@preactionin this instance, no, a second instance is not needed18:01
@preactionbut as you said, there are multiple questions18:01
@preactionand sections18:02
@preactionsections contain questions, so section objects have question objects inside them. asking a section to draw itself will make the section ask the questions to draw themselves18:02
@preactionwhich, now that i've been able to actually say this, means that i've been thinking about my javascript all wrong 18:02
perlmonkey2var temp = new WebGUI.DM; //is not a constructor is the error.18:03
@preactiondoes WebGUI.DM = function () { ... }; ?18:03
perlmonkey2WebGUI.DM = function(){18:03
perlmonkey2    var lastQId = -1;//Current Question18:03
perlmonkey2    var lastSId = -1;//Current Question18:03
perlmonkey2    var lastAId = -1;//Current Question18:03
perlmonkey2    var lastObject; 18:03
@preactioni think you need the () after new WebGUI.DM18:04
wgGuest53Hi!  Question:  Say I wanted to edit a line in the In/Out Board module.  Can I FTP to my site to do that? or is there a better way?18:06
perlmonkey2WebGUI.DM = function(){...}(); is what I have.18:06
@preactionwgGuest53, it's not recommended that you edit WebGUI modules, since an upgrade will destroy your changes. what does the IOB not do that you need it to do?18:07
perlmonkey2preaction: I've tried this before.  In all the examples and texts I could find online, the only example of objects that can be called with new, are functions.  And I've never seen a function that can have a full namespace.18:07
wgGuest53Where it says: "What's Happening" I would like to say "Expiration Date".  I'm using it to show which workers have taken a particular test (in/out) and when their expiration date on their card is.18:08
wgGuest53so i'm using in/out to say yes/no.18:09
wgGuest53but i need to change the label "what's happening" to "expiration date".18:09
wgGuest53does that make sense?18:09
@preactionyes. it sounds like you should be using something else, like a dataform perhaps. otherwise you want to edit the i18n file, since that is where that text is defined18:11
@preactionperlmonkey2, http://webgui.pastebin.com/m3b3f7f91 <- a proof-of-concept18:12
wgGuest53ok.  i'll try that.  thanks!18:12
@preactioni'm not sure if it's "this" or just being called with "new" that causes JS to create an object instance18:12
perlmonkey2preaction: ack....I can't get it to work with the list object syntax.18:16
@preactionpastebin is in the topic, put the problem code there18:16
@preactionperhaps a minimal testcase is in order as well?18:16
@preactionthe ##javascript channel on this network has been helpful to me in the past18:17
@preactionwhen assigning properties to an object you need to use "this", not "var". this.property = "value";18:18
@preactionnothing is returned from an object constructor18:18
@preactionjust the act of calling "new" creates an object18:18
@preactionto assign methods to object, use Object.prototype.Method = function ..., as i did in my code18:19
@preactionObject must resolve to a function, so in your case: WebGUI.DM.prototype.Method18:19
perlmonkey2preaction: I thought this and var controlled if it was private or public18:22
perlmonkey2but I just got it to work.18:22
perlmonkey2This is so frick'n sweat.  I can use the list syntax for object creation and they can actually be real objects callable with new.18:22
perlmonkey2so I get pretty syntax, full namespaces, and real objects.18:22
@preactionvar defines the scope of the variable. once the block that "var" is in ends, the variable is garbage18:23
@preactionit's like my, only not precisely18:23
perlmonkey2preaction: I don't like the prototype method......too much like inside out objects.  I like the list syntax.18:23
@preactionlist syntax is the old way of doing things, prototype method is, from what i understand, the inheritable way to do things18:24
perlmonkey2good lord it is ugly and defines objects in several statements.18:24
@preactionit defines the methods in different statements, yes.18:24
perlmonkey2and I shoudl be able to inherit superclasses with this syntax.18:24
@preactionit's more like regular OO-programming, like Perl or Jaa18:24
@preactiontrue, i guess18:25
perlmonkey2Well cool, thanks for the help18:26
wgGuest53may i ask a question about the dataform?18:35
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perlDreamerthe whole gang's here!18:38
wgGuest53when listing the data entries, it lists the "entry id":(oHRJt14iGhgjSFkYIFDFjg) instead of the user name.  It also lists the "yes/no" response as "1/2".  How can I make it report the username and yes/no?18:38
perlDreamerwgGuest53, are you talking about the DataForm?18:45
perlDreamerHave you looked through the freely available online Help to get a list of template variables for the DataForm List Template?18:46
perlDreamerLike, by going into Admin mode, hitting the Help icon (which looks like a ship's lifesaver)18:47
perlDreamerScrolling down to the DataForm List Template Variables entry18:47
perlDreamerand reading through the list of template variables18:48
wgGuest53ah.  ok.  thanks.  sorry.18:48
perlDreamerNo problem.18:48
perlDreamerAs the 1/2 yes/no issue, that sounds like a bug, especially if you're using a default template18:48
perlDreamerPlease file it in the Report a Bug section on the website.18:48
wgGuest53ok.  thanks.  i'll check it out.18:48
perlDreamerbe sure to mention what version of wG (not the WRE) that you're using18:49
@preactioni'll bet it has to be 1/2 (and not 0/1) because of HTML::Template (0 is false which won't get properly assigned)18:49
perlDreamerIt looks like in the DataForm yes and no are translated from strings "yes" and "no" to 1 and 018:51
@preactionthat's weird. the WebGUI::Form::YesNo stores them as 0 (no) and 1 (yes). maybe the template has to do the actual showing of "yes" or "no" based on a conditional18:53
perlDreamermaybe.  In any case, 1/2 is not right.18:53
wgGuest53I see the list of template variables.  where do I go to use or edit the template?19:05
perlDreamerThe easiest way, IIRC, is to edit the DataForm, then flip to the Display tab where the templates are19:06
perlDreamerNext to the Data Form List template, there should be an edit button19:06
perlDreamernow, for working with templates19:06
perlDreameryou should never, ever modify a default wG template, because upgrades may stomp on your changes19:06
perlDreamerMake a copy of that template, change it, and then tell the dataform to use your copy19:06
perlDreamerwgGuest53, you may learn a ton from looking at the Wiki at http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki19:12
perlDreamerand the Content Manager's Guide from Plain Black also covers a ton of these learning WebGUI Issues19:12
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xdangeris there a payment plugint for webgui that you can use in europe?20:19
wgGuest53I have an issue with SQLFORMS20:19
wgGuest53when I attempt to create a field in "SQLFORM, ADD/EDIT FIELD" I receive the following error: Problem With Request"We have encountered a problem with your request. Please use your back button and try again. If this problem persists, please contact us with what you were trying to do and the time and date of the problem."  Then it logs me out.20:20
wgGuest53can someone please speak with me about this?20:20
wgGuest53I've been looking through the forums20:21
@preactionProblem With Request will be in the error log20:24
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wgGuest53where is webgui.log?20:40
perlDreamerusually in /var/log/webgui.log20:40
perlDreamerbut it depends on your system20:40
perlDreamerand if you use the WRE20:40
perlDreamerpreaction is right, it's good to check the apache error log too20:41
wgGuest53I'm being hosted on plainblack server: http://web368.plainblack.net/ but can't FTP into it.  any suggestions?20:50
perlDreamerIf you're hosted by PB, then you might try the paid support board.20:51
wgGuest53when i log in at "http://www.plainblack.com/plain_black_support" it shows me as logged in, but tells me: "Permission Denied!"20:55
perlDreamerAre you paying for support, or just hosting?20:56
wgGuest53I am on the $50/mo - Supported WebGUI Hosting plan20:57
perlDreamerIn that case, you should call them and report the problem with not being able to access the support board.20:58
perlDreamerthen, after that is fixed, post your SQL Form problem over theer20:58
wgGuest53cool.  is there a phone number i should have access to?20:59
perlDreamerI would guess that the one on the website would work?20:59
wgGuest53d'oh!  thanks.21:00
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--- Day changed Tue Jan 15 2008
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Syn2this one is for JT: http://xkcd.com00:20
+MrHairgreasethat's a cool comic00:20
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Syn2when will IRC karma points be introduced?00:23
perlDreamerthey already work00:24
Syn2i got to get more karma than morekarmathankoenandbart00:24
perlDreamer++ Syn200:24
perlDreamerkarma Syn200:24
perlDreamerperlbot: karms Syn200:24
perlDreamerperlbot: karma Syn200:24
perlbotSyn2 doesn't have any karma00:24
perlDreamerperlbot: karma Syn200:24
perlbotKarma for Syn2: 100:24
Syn2that is scary indeed00:24
perlDreamerperlbot: karma00:25
perlbotpass out karma to those who deserve it (GumbyGumby++) and retract it from those who don't (php--)00:25
+MrHairgreasethat'll get your feet on the ground again =)00:25
+MrHairgreaseI would never ever give someone called gumbygumby karma00:25
Syn2would you give carma to someone who has perl in his nick?00:26
perlDreamernah.  guys like that are losers and hacker wannabes00:26
+MrHairgreaseb/c I like losers and wnnabee hackers00:27
Syn2I knew you liked me :)00:27
perlDreamerthank you, MrHairGrease00:28
perlDreamerNot only are you an uber-hacker and EuroTrash, you're also a gentleman00:28
Syn2eurotrash, does that consist at least partly out of belgian beer?00:28
+MrHairgreasedon't forget the ultrahip00:28
+MrHairgreaseand what was the other thing again00:28
perlDreamerChief Spokesman for Murray's ?00:29
+MrHairgreasehang on00:29
+MrHairgreasei'm chceking the irc logs00:29
perlDreamerBaron of Beer Consumption?00:29
+MrHairgreaseoh yeah00:29
+MrHairgreaseor however you spell that00:30
Syn2I gotta lie down for half an hour before I embark on a trip of night hacking00:30
+MrHairgreaserizen: thanks for the chocolates btw00:43
+MrHairgreasethey're nice00:43
@rizenyou're quite welcome00:43
perlDreamerdoes anyone know how TT benchmarks vs H::T?00:53
+MrHairgreasei asked the same friday00:53
+MrHairgreaseso please relay your findings to me too00:53
@rizeni don't remember where i saw the benchmarks, but when i first decided to go with H::T vs TT it was close to 10:1 difference00:55
@rizenhowever, we're talking ms here, so in the greater scheme of things, 10:1 isn't noticable on a single page ivew00:56
@rizenit only becomes apparent across the entire site00:56
@rizenthe one advantage that TT has over H::T in most situations (but not in webgui) is that it can optionally generate some templates00:57
@rizentemplate tags that is00:57
@rizenbecause you can pass in subrefs00:57
perlDreamerTT is slightly faster, but uses 3X the memory00:57
+MrHairgreasewho cares00:58
perlDreamerand that comparison is 5 years old00:58
@rizenthat's not the one i saw00:58
+MrHairgreasei can imagine that the difference fot h::t is minimal though00:58
@rizenkeep in mind that no matter what charts you can find, they won't apply to webgui because webgui was written with HTML::Template in mind, not TT01:01
@rizenso H:T has a big advantage in wg01:02
+MrHairgreaseit very well could be01:02
+MrHairgreasebut how is wg specifically written for h::t?01:02
perlDreamerDon't you just build a hash and shove it into the templating engnie?01:02
perlDreameryeah, what MrHairgrease said01:02
@rizenbecause we prebuild a bunch of crap that you wouldn't prebuild for TT01:03
+MrHairgreasei imagine that all template systems in essence just get a gob of data01:03
+MrHairgreaseand so something with it01:03
@rizenbecause for example01:03
+MrHairgreaseoh i see01:03
@rizenthere's no way to do $a == $b01:03
@rizenin H:T01:03
+MrHairgreasebut i can imagine that if you don't do all those complex things with tt01:03
@rizenbut if we were optimized for TT, then we wouldn't do those things01:03
+MrHairgreaseit'll be faster than if you do01:03
+MrHairgreaseso the difference is prolly not as bad as you say01:04
@rizenyou're missing it01:04
@rizenor i'm not explaining it right01:04
perlDreamerso it's the difference between precompiling stuff that might not be needed01:04
@rizenpd gets the cookie01:04
+MrHairgreasebut that overhead is there for h::t to01:04
@rizenbut it's not just variables01:04
+MrHairgreasei'm saying 01:04
+MrHairgreasewait a sec01:04
+MrHairgreasei think you're not getting me =)01:05
@rizenit's also because TT can get sub refs passed into it01:05
@rizento conditionally process stuff01:05
+MrHairgreasei know01:05
@rizenand the other difference is, that TT is loading its ability to do all that other crap01:05
@rizeneven though you don't use it in webgui01:05
@rizenwhereas H:T doesn't have it, so it doesn't load it01:05
@rizenthat's why i say that WebGUI was built with H:T in mind, not TT01:05
+MrHairgreasewhat i tried to say is that if all the crap is precalculated you don't have to do that in tt01:06
@rizenand why H:T has an advantage in WebGUI that TT doesn't01:06
+MrHairgreaseand use tt just like you'd use h::t01:06
@rizenright, that's what we do01:06
+MrHairgreasei understand that still tt would priolly be slower01:06
+MrHairgreasebut it's not as bad as to have and calculate it all AGAIN in tt01:06
@rizenhowever, if we redesigned things to work with TT natively, TT could definitely get a performance boost in webgui01:06
perlmonkey2MrHairgrease: I'm sad to say that I have decided to not follow your advice.  I am going to go with the OOP module used in the YUI examples.01:07
perlmonkey2Which is kind of a mismatch of literal singletons and namespaced functions.