WebGUI irc logs from: 2006-04.log

--- Log opened Sat Apr 01 00:00:15 2006
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+perlDreamerboy, it's so quiet in here22:08
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xdangercrythias: do you have an idea when is 6.8.8 comming out ?06:57
+crythiasnope06:57
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xdangercrythias: just noticed something that I don't have time to verify, but does denied content (a CS Post for example) ever get expired and moved to trash ?10:11
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+crythiasand then the guy said, "what do you mean... legume?"19:31
+crythiasoh. :)19:31
BaylinkHenh?19:33
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+crythias\18:15
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xdangerchansen: did you guys ever post a mail about how to use the Devel::Autoprofiler ?20:02
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xdangerperlDreamer: was there any resolution howto use Devel::Autoprofiler or something like that ?21:01
+perlDreamerI don't know21:01
+perlDreamerlast I heard they put something into to core, though21:01
+perlDreamerbut that was months ago21:01
+perlDreamerare you talking about something recent?21:01
xdangerthe thing that was talked about on the dev-list a fe moths a go..21:02
+perlDreamerokay, then yeah21:02
+perlDreamerit's in the core21:02
+perlDreamerif you check the dev email list, I'm pretty sure Len posted how to set it up21:02
xdangerA21:03
+perlDreamerit basically adds another handler for mod_perl which wraps all subroutines and times them.21:03
+perlDreamerthen it post-processes the page and adds the data to it21:03
xdangeri think I just didn't look hard enough...21:04
chansenxdanger: pong21:10
chansenah, already resolved :)21:10
xdangerdoes that work in 6.8 ?21:13
+perlDreamerI21:14
+perlDreameruh21:14
+perlDreamerI don't know21:14
+perlDreamerguessing not21:14
chansenxdanger: you could try http://search.cpan.org/dist/Apache-DB/lib/Apache/SmallProf.pm21:14
WRE<chansen> http://tinyurl.com/ehpkw21:14
+perlDreamerwhat's the end goal?21:15
xdangeryes it worked in 6.821:22
xdangerI'm just having a problem that my files in CS doesn't show...21:22
+perlDreamerare you using the default templates?21:22
xdangernope, but was there a any changes in thouse between 6.7 and 6.821:24
+perlDreamerI wouldn't doubt it21:24
+perlDreameryou could find out by checking the update files21:25
xdangerI'm upgrading a client of mine to use 6.8 and it has some custom changes in Storage.pm (mainly to sort file list and iclude metadata in files)21:25
xdangerA did, but didn't notice anything21:25
xdangeroh, yeah... if I add a new post it works, only ALL the old files in any cs don't work21:45
+perlDreamerI don't suppose you upgraded from Mysql 4 to Mysql 5 recently?21:53
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xdangerperlDreamer: still using 4.1 but I have re on my dev box that I'm testing the upgrade on..22:10
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bcnxHi all22:31
bcnxI'm officially going crazy22:31
bcnxit's been 4 weeks now and WebGUI hasn't run longer than 3 days in a row22:32
bcnxhad all sorts of problems22:32
bcnxit finally looked OK, and now this again22:32
bcnxany specialists around?22:32
xdangerare you using wre ?22:37
bcnxno, that's not really an option22:38
xdangerhat version of wg ?22:38
xdangerwhat22:38
bcnx6.8.722:38
bcnxlatest22:38
xdangerare you using Apache::SizeLimit ?22:38
xdangerwebgui leaks memory22:38
bcnxaha22:38
xdangerapache process get too large22:38
bcnxI had signs of a memory leak22:39
bcnxbut I restarted Apache already several times22:39
xdangerthere's your answer ;)22:39
bcnxshouldn't the issue be resolved when restarting Apache then?22:39
xdangeryes.. I think so22:40
bcnxwell, it doesn't ...22:40
xdangertry to do a complete apachectl stop;apachectl start22:41
xdangerdoes that solve it ?22:41
bcnxlet me try22:41
bcnxvope22:41
bcnxnope22:41
bcnxsame thing22:41
bcnxI get this all the time in my log file:22:42
bcnxCan't call method "quote" on an undefined value at /work/data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm22:42
bcnxthat points to a conf fiel with wrong mysql info22:42
bcnxbut that's not the case22:42
bcnxI can connect and testEnvironment.pl works flawlessly22:42
xdangermysql running ?22:42
bcnxsurez22:43
bcnxsure22:43
xdangertry turning debug on22:43
bcnxof WebGUI?22:43
xdangerhmm... well you can't since you can't connect to it =D22:43
xdangermy bad22:43
bcnx:-)22:43
xdangerdoes that hapen on every page ?22:44
bcnxI can do sql dumps and stuff22:44
bcnxI tried the homepage22:44
xdangerand what is your mysql version ?22:44
bcnxlet me try another22:44
bcnx522:44
bcnxyup, every page22:44
bcnxand thinking I just offered to help translating WebGUI to Dutch  :-s22:45
bcnxneed to get it working first :-(22:45
xdangerhave consulted with the dutch team ?22:45
bcnxnot about this issue, no22:45
xdangerment avout the translation22:46
xdangerabout22:46
bcnxyes, I got in touch with some guy: Arjan Widlak22:46
bcnxof WOSSA22:46
xdangeris your site online at some public address ?22:46
bcnxyes22:46
bcnxhttp://www.bitsntricks.com22:46
bcnxwell, "online" ...22:47
bcnx:-)22:47
xdangernice domain =)22:47
bcnxthank you!  :-$22:47
bcnxI need some tricks now :-)22:47
xdangerlook at webgui.log22:47
xdangermaybe that will help something22:47
bcnxI did, nothing in there22:47
xdangerand apache log ?22:47
xdangerwell apache error log ;)22:48
bcnxthere I get the "call method "quote" " thing22:48
bcnx Can't call method "quote" on an undefined value at /work/data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm22:48
xdangerthat sounds like something todo with your databases integrity..22:49
xdangermake a nother db in mysql and install the default/install sql there and try that one..22:49
bcnxwell, I tried with an empy one22:49
bcnxyeah, did just that22:50
xdangerok, didn't work ?22:50
bcnxclean WebGUI db22:50
bcnxno, strange huh22:50
xdangerwery =)22:50
xdangervery =)22:50
bcnxyeah22:50
bcnxit's amazing, the amoutn of bad luck I had22:50
bcnxI stil feel WebGUI is the bomb, but I'd love to see it finally running smoothly22:51
xdangerwhat's the os ?22:51
bcnxI'm glad it's just for me, not for a customer  :-s22:51
bcnxSuse SLES922:51
xdanger=P22:51
bcnxBecause of some previous issues I already upgraded Perl and MySQL22:53
bcnxbut it ran OK for some days22:53
bcnxmmm, I see webgui.log is empty as well for the last two days22:53
bcnxMy site wnet down 2 or 3 days ago ...22:53
bcnxodd22:53
xdangerit is22:58
xdangersorry that I couldn't help you solve that =(22:58
bcnxno problem xdanger, I appreciate the effort22:58
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bcnxthx again xdanger for trying to remedy this "impossible" one23:07
bcnxit looks like I'm going to spend my fifth week in trying ot get WebGUI running23:07
+crythiasbecause?23:07
bcnxhope it runs in time before version 7.0, because than w estart translating23:07
bcnxow, Hi crythias23:08
+crythiasgreetings.23:08
+crythias5 weeks?23:08
bcnxyeah, it's been one thing after the other23:08
bcnxit ws running fine now for 3 whole days23:08
bcnxand now this:23:08
bcnx"Can't call method "quote" on an undefined value at /work/data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm"23:08
bcnxBUT23:08
bcnxthe mysql connection works fine23:08
+crythiasusually password23:09
bcnxno issues with user/pass things23:09
bcnxno, cause testEnvironment.pl works OK23:09
bcnxalso a sql dump with the same creds works OK23:09
+crythiasempty cache?23:09
bcnxhow can I do that outside of WebGUI?23:09
+crythiasI think it's /tmp/WebGUI..23:10
+crythiashrm. forgot23:10
bcnxrm -rf ?23:10
+crythiassire23:10
+crythiassure23:10
bcnxok, hang on23:10
bcnxno luck23:11
+crythiaswebgui.log?23:11
bcnxempty since the problems23:11
+crythiasapache-error.log?23:12
bcnx"Can't call method "quote" on an undefined value at /work/data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm"23:12
+crythiascan you paste more lines? http://www.rafb.net/paste23:12
bcnxI've got only that one23:13
bcnxand this one:23:13
bcnxCan't call method "quote" on an undefined value at /work/data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm line 64023:13
bcnxfor just half an hout23:13
bcnxhour23:13
bcnxbut now it's the "prepare" thing again23:14
bcnxthis is the URL:23:14
bcnxhttp://www.bitsntricks.com/23:14
+crythiashttp://www.rafb.net/paste/results/yERAJz35.html23:14
WRE<crythias> http://tinyurl.com/ql3su23:14
+crythiasinteresting mod_perl isn't listed ...23:15
bcnxit's loaded though23:15
+crythiasthis error I encountered I can't troubleshoot.23:16
bcnxat least, I see apache complaining when it's trying to load a second time (need to remoeve that form the conf files)23:16
+crythiasnot from outside, anyway.23:16
bcnxare there anymore things I can try?23:17
+crythiasI'd be willing to look at logs, etc...23:17
+crythiasbut you not getting webgui.log is telling.23:17
+crythiasdid you create/modify the log.conf?23:17
bcnxwebgui.log is empty for some days23:18
bcnxno, not really23:18
bcnxinitially I change dthe logfile path and name23:18
bcnxbut that's already some time ago23:18
+crythiasbut you're not seeing any entries?23:26
bcnxno23:26
bcnxlast one os from april second23:26
+crythiasthat doesn't make sense to me.23:26
+crythiaswhen was the last time apache was restarted?23:26
bcnxthe permissions for that file are good nonetheless23:26
bcnx10 minutes ago23:27
+perlDreamerif you're using MySQL 5, is this an upgrade or did you start with v5?23:28
+crythiascurrently connection refused23:29
bcnxyeah, am restarting apache23:29
bcnxI'm thinking about restarting the machine23:29
bcnxperldreamer: I think I removed v4 first23:30
bcnxand then installed v523:30
+perlDreamerthat's not the problem23:30
bcnxI'm going to reboot the machine23:30
+perlDreamerif you use a v4 database in v5 then you're going to end up with a corrupt database23:30
bcnxno, I started fresh in v523:32
+perlDreamerI'm starting kind of late in the conversation,but what exactly do you have to do to get the "quote" warning?23:33
+perlDreamerview a page23:33
+perlDreamerturn on admin?23:33
bcnxit's not mainly "quote" but the other error23:33
bcnx"prepare"23:33
+perlDreamerI don't see the prepare error in my IRC log, could you paste it please?23:34
bcnxif the machine reboots, I'll paste it23:36
bcnxCan't call method "prepare" on an undefined value at /work/data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm line 47323:42
+perlDreamernothing before or after it?23:42
+perlDreamerand what did you do to cause it?23:42
bcnxthe same error over and over again23:43
bcnxgood question23:44
bcnxthat last thing I remember was changing the root password for mysql23:44
bcnxbut that shouldn't affect anything23:44
+perlDreamerdoes it happen when you start the web server?23:44
+perlDreameror when you view a page?23:44
bcnxWhen you view the page I think23:44
bcnxlet me check23:44
bcnxit happens when visiting the page23:45
+perlDreamerthe home page?23:46
bcnxyes23:46
+perlDreamerwhat's on the home page?23:46
bcnxyou can see for yourself: http://www.bitnstricks.com23:46
bcnxoops23:46
bcnxhttp://www.bitsntricks.com23:47
+perlDreameruh, I mean what assets are on the main page?23:47
+perlDreamerarticles, CS, etc?23:47
bcnxah, ok23:47
bcnxthe homepage is empty, only text23:48
bcnxno articles23:48
bcnxnothing else23:48
+perlDreamerweird23:48
bcnxthe last thing I did was experimenting with uploading files23:48
bcnxin other pages23:48
bcnxthat didn't workj before and someone here suggeszted upgrading to perl 5.823:48
bcnxso I did23:49
bcnxand things still worked23:49
bcnxafter a while at least23:49
bcnxthree days later: nothing23:49
+perlDreamerNo changes to settings or webgui.conf file?23:49
bcnxwebgui.conf definitely not23:50
bcnxsettings ...23:50
bcnxlet me think23:50
bcnxnot that I'm aware of23:50
bcnxthe funny thing is that testEnvironment.pl works flawlessly23:50
+perlDreamertestE.pl only checks for modules and other setup type things.23:51
+perlDreamerdo you have backups so that you could reset the site to a time when it worked?23:51
bcnxyes, I tried that, I even tried  en "empty" db, but no good23:52
bcnxcan try that again now if you wnat23:52
+perlDreamerwhat is an empty db?23:52
bcnxI mean the original Webgui database23:53
+perlDreamerso basically you did:23:54
+perlDreamermysql -e "drop myDatabase; create database myDatabase"23:54
bcnxcorrect23:54
bcnxand then redirect create.sql23:54
+perlDreamerdid you clean out the uploads directory and the caches?23:54
bcnxno23:54
bcnxcould that be an issue?23:54
bcnxI rm -rf /tmp/WebGUICache though23:54
+perlDreamerthat should cover it23:55
+perlDreamerwhat's in your webgui.conf file?23:55
bcnxshall I rm -rf "uploads" too?23:55
+perlDreamerI would23:55
bcnxok, one sec23:55
bcnxmmm, I got a "-3" folder in uploads23:56
bcnxcan't remove that one23:57
+perlDreameris it empty now?23:57
bcnxI can't cd into it23:57
bcnxcouild that be the culprit?23:57
+perlDreamerno23:57
bcnxillegal dir name?23:57
bcnxthere some other dirs in it, but no file23:58
+perlDreamerit's not illegal, just painful to use from the command line23:58
bcnxhe considers "-3" as an option23:58
bcnxno way to delete it23:58
+perlDreamertry perl -e 'unlink q!-3!;'23:58
+crythiasrm -fr \-323:59
bcnxof course, the escape thing23:59
bcnxdid it23:59
bcnxuploads empty now23:59
bcnxsame thing23:59
+perlDreamerwhat's in your webgui.conf file?23:59
--- Day changed Wed Apr 05 2006
+crythiasheh00:00
+crythiasHEE00:00
bcnxpaste it here entirely?00:00
+crythiascan't load file (-3)00:00
+perlDreameryou can use crythias's favorite paste utility, but do remember to remove the username/password00:00
+crythiashttp://www.rafb.net/paste00:00
bcnxok, let me see00:00
bcnx(thx guys, by the way)00:00
+crythias:)00:00
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+perlDreamerbetween crythias's awesume admin-fu and my perl hackery, we should be able to get you up and going.00:01
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bcnxnice00:02
+perlDreamerhowdy, rizen00:02
+crythiasbcnx:00:02
+perlDreamerhow hackest thou, today?00:02
bcnxbut I'm afraid I just messed something up here, damn stuck mouse button00:02
@rizenhowdy00:02
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bcnxless underlines stuff00:03
bcnxto "more" then :-)00:03
bcnxone minute00:03
-!- pbmdawg changed the topic of #WebGUI to: wG 7.0 caching system00:03
+crythiasimport create.sql to a new db and point to that in webgui.conf00:03
@rizeni'm waiting for a couple people to get on, then i need to gather feedback00:03
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bcnxhttp://www.rafb.net/paste/results/ehq6qA45.html00:05
WRE<bcnx> http://tinyurl.com/qu5tz00:05
bcnxok, will do that crythias00:05
-!- Steve is now known as Meatbop00:05
+perlDreamerbcnx: what's your WebGUI root directory?00:06
+crythiasand did you change it in preload.perl?00:06
+perlDreamerexactly!00:06
* perlDreamer hands crythias a psychic antenna00:06
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* crythias adds the psychic antenna to his tinfoil hat.00:07
+perlDreamerand why didn't you just use /data?00:07
bcnxbecause I'm using a HA-cluster00:08
@rizenok boys and girls, i need to have a quick chat and see what feedback everyone has for me00:08
bcnxand the shared storage is on /work00:08
+perlDreamersymlink it to /data?00:08
@rizenthis is re: 7.0 and page caching00:08
bcnxcrythias, an alternative db does not help00:08
@rizenin the past we had page level caching, that only cached the content00:08
@rizenthis was problematic because it didn't cache the headers00:09
+perlDreamerbcnx: make a paste of your vhost setup for WebGUI00:09
@rizenand therefore if the header was not returning content type of text/html we'd have a problem00:09
bcnxcrythias, can't send private messages it seems00:09
bcnxICQ?00:09
@psychicAntbcnx: you have to register with freenode00:09
+crythiasrizen: understood00:10
@rizenalso, caching of Page Layouts is a problem because individual assets under page layouts can change faster than the layout's cache timeout00:10
@rizenlen and i considered the benefits of caching the entire page including headers00:10
@rizenwe thought that might be a good idea, but that doesn't solve the page layout problem00:10
@rizenAND more importantly00:10
@rizenthat creates a new problem00:10
@rizenin that the HTTP headers may include cookie information00:11
@rizenwhich means that users might get each other's sessions00:11
+crythiasbad00:11
@rizenyup, very bad00:11
@rizenso full page caching is now out the window00:11
@rizenalso in 7.0 one more thing complicates full page caching00:11
@rizenand that is the concept of content chunking00:11
@rizencontent chunking works like this00:11
@rizenwe send back the HTML header00:11
@rizenthen each asset seperately00:12
@rizenthen the HTML footer00:12
@rizenHTML header and footer being split out of the style template00:12
@rizen[this enables us to render pages more quickly00:12
@rizennow, even without caching, pages are rendering much faster than they were under 6.800:12
@rizenhowever, i'd still like to enable caching of content because it reduces server load00:13
@rizenbut i think we're going to need to do it on a per asset basis00:13
@rizencertain kinds of assets should probably never cache00:13
@rizenfor example: polls and surveys00:13
@rizenhowever, other kinds, articles, images, collaboration system posts00:13
@rizenetc00:13
@rizenprobably can cache00:13
@rizennow after all that background information00:14
@rizeni pose the question to you guys: what do you think we should cache or shouldn't cache?00:14
@rizenhow should caching work in your mind?00:14
+crythiaswhat you said: polls, surveys, sqlreports00:14
+crythiaswsclients00:14
@rizenand do you have any problems from the prior caching mechanisms that we need to make sure we account for?00:14
+perlDreamerin/out board should be a no-cache00:15
+crythiasactually would suggest [x] Cache this.00:16
@rizenperhaps i should start with a simple question. Does everyone agree that full page caching needs to go away?00:16
+crythiasYes00:16
+perlDreameryes00:17
@rizenhave i lost everyone else?00:17
+crythiasbecause there's no easy way to enforce static-ish content only on a page00:17
@psychicAntwe'll need to differentiate between www_ methods and other methods, such as view()00:17
@psychicAntb/c the output (content, <head>block stuff) of view() would need to be cached for when a wobject is viewed in its parent Layout00:18
Jamieyes full page needs to go away00:18
MeatbopAgreed00:18
@rizenok, since the people responding seem to agree with that00:19
@rizendo we also then agree that it should be caching at the asset level?00:19
+perlDreamerhow does that work for Asset containers?00:19
@rizenasset containers are just assets00:20
@rizenwe need to decide whether the asset needs to cache or not00:20
@rizenanything can be a container00:20
@rizena poll for instance00:20
+crythiaseven a page layout?00:20
@rizenor an article, can theoretically be a container00:20
@rizenso whether it is a container or not can't matter00:20
@rizenin the case of a layout, we'll have to say that no, it shouldnt' cache00:21
+perlDreamerah, okay then00:21
@rizenbecause it will show any assets under it00:21
+perlDreamerwith that caveat, I agree about asset-level caching00:21
@rizenand those things may not be static00:21
@rizenok...and i think even further than asset level caching00:21
@rizenwe may want to decide to cache only on specific methods iwthin an asset00:21
@rizenso basically, the asset developer decides whether there is caching or not00:22
@rizencompletely through the asset00:22
@psychicAntif I may throw this out there - could we even consider the possibility of caching certain portions of certain templates...?00:22
@rizenwe don't include caching on wobjects00:22
@rizenor whatever00:22
@rizenit's a per asset basis00:22
@rizencompletely up to the developer00:22
@rizenpsychicAnt: I'm listening, what do you have in mind?00:23
@rizenmeanwhile, let's go down the list of assets00:24
@psychicAntif one could mark certain regions of templates cache-able, an intelligent template-output cacher could cache the output of that template processing, and only process the portions of that template that aren't marked as cachable00:24
@rizeni understand that00:24
@psychicAntsince generally it's not the template variable generation that's slow; it's the template processing00:25
@rizenbut what i don't understand00:25
@rizenis how would we go about caching only parts of them00:25
@rizenin a generic way00:25
+perlDreamerpsychicAnt: If we go with rizen's asset level caching proposal, that could be done with a particular Template asset.00:25
@rizenthat seems like it would have to be on a per asset basis00:25
+perlDreamersince each asset decides what it caches00:25
bcnxPerldreamer, I'm off. thx for your assistance. tomorrow is another day.00:25
+perlDreamerbcnx: good luck00:25
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@rizenEvent: yes/no, problems?00:25
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+crythiascache event00:26
+perlDreamerevent, yes, events calendar: problems00:26
@rizenwhat problems on events calendar?00:26
@rizenFile: yes/no, problems?00:27
+perlDreamerif the events calendar is set to display "NOW", then you could cache output past the date when an event would be on the calendar00:27
@pbmdawgtimezone problems00:27
+crythiasFile: cache00:27
+crythiasalthough.. wait. that's silly00:27
@rizenfile does have a template gerald00:27
@pbmdawgrizen: are we talking about the view() methods of each of these assets?00:27
@pbmdawgor all the methods?00:28
@rizenfor right now e're probably just talking about view methods00:28
+crythiasthe template for file is listing the file?00:28
@rizenbut eventually we'll need to make a judgement on other methods00:28
@pbmdawgcrythias: yes.  in a Folder or Layout.00:28
@rizenthe template for the file show the icon00:28
@rizenthe file name00:28
@rizenand a link to the file00:28
+crythiascache00:28
@rizengoing back to the time zone thingy00:29
@rizenon events00:29
@rizenwe'll still have to cache on a per user basis00:29
@rizenor are you saying it's not worth caching00:29
@rizencuz we have to do it on a per user basis?00:29
@pbmdawgimho things very few things at all should be cached on a per user basis, except for Visitor.00:30
+crythiaswhy per user? why not per group?00:30
@pbmdawgcan't cache per group b/c of groupsOfGroups00:30
+crythiashow does that matter?00:30
@rizenok, so you're saying only cache for visitor?00:30
@rizenand everything else renders live?00:30
@rizenwhat does everyone else think of that?00:31
@pbmdawgyeah.  for large sites, you don't want 10,000 versions of things00:31
@pbmdawgin the cache00:31
+crythias++pbmdawg00:31
@rizenmeatbop, vrby, perlDreamer?00:31
+perlDreamerI think you should cache events, and not cache the calendar00:32
@pbmdawgbut then if you could mark certain methods of each asset class (or certain sections of each asset class' template(s)) as cache-able, you could get really fancy and fine-tuned)00:32
@pbmdawgoh, I was talking about everything, not just Event00:32
@pbmdawgcan't cache Events under the current implementation, because epochToHuman is TZ/user dependent00:33
@rizenof the 11 people logged in, are only 3 of us paying attention?00:33
MeatbopI do like the idea of caching for visitors only, but would that be taxing for those that use the system primarily as an intranet?00:33
@rizenyes00:33
@rizenhowever00:33
@rizenthe question is, how often will people visit the same object00:33
@rizenwithin the period of the cache timeout00:34
@rizenso for instance, if i have a cached article00:34
@rizenhow many times will you view that article before your cache times out00:34
@rizeni suspect if we have it only caching for 10 minutes00:34
@rizenonce00:34
@rizenbut if we can do our caching carefully00:35
@rizenand cache things for hours or even days00:35
+crythiasheh. What if the cache is deleted upon edit/save.00:35
@pbmdawgmaybe we should think about two dimensions here, per-user and per-time.  If we could mark template sections or asset class methods as cache-able in each of those axes, we could get really specific for both caching aspects.00:35
@rizenthen maybe it makes sense to cache for regular users00:35
@rizengerald: cache is already deleted upon save00:35
@rizenit just doesn't feel like that00:35
@rizenbecause of layout caching00:35
+perlDreamerI don't think you can cache that long on things that expire with time, like Events00:36
+crythiasfine then cache an event until it expires.00:36
@rizenmatt: forget about caching specfic parts of templates..i'm not saying we're not doing it00:36
@rizenbut it's not relevant to this conversation00:36
@rizenbecause it will have to be done on a per asset basis00:36
@rizenand we're talking about more general things right now00:37
@pbmdawgk00:37
@rizengerald: i think that you're right about events00:37
@rizencache until the event expires or is edited00:37
@rizenso in that case, event's don't have a seperate cache settings00:37
@rizenhowever, i think events should also only be cached for visitors00:37
+crythiasdoesn't matter, really, does it?00:38
@rizenbecause it's not likely that individual users will view an event more than once00:38
@rizenyes, because of time zones00:38
@rizenif i'm in central and you're in eastern00:38
@rizenthe times show differently for us00:38
+crythiasstore in UTC and adjust?00:38
@rizencan't adjust if it's cached00:38
+crythiasmath on the fly?00:39
@rizenit's already stored in utc00:39
@rizenare you listening to what you're saying00:39
@rizenyou can't both cache it and then adjust it00:39
@rizenwhat's the point of caching then00:39
@pbmdawgcrythias: this would work if the conversion were done client side ;)00:39
@pbmdawgepochs passed to the browser; browser localizes them00:39
@rizenbut that requires that the user have javascript00:39
@rizenand that also still requires00:39
@rizenthat we send along the user's time zone00:40
@pbmdawgno; js can get that from the browser00:40
+crythiasso we can't cache visitor00:40
@pbmdawg(I'm not advocating passing epochs)00:40
@rizenok, but then we wouldn't be following their preferences in their profile00:40
@rizenyes, we can cache visitor, because all visitors use the same profile00:40
+crythiascertainly we can't cache visitor for until event expires.00:40
@rizenwe don't adjust time zones for visitor00:40
@pbmdawg(nor am I advocating that all events calendars' events should be time-localized.00:40
@pbmdawg)00:40
@pbmdawgI think that should be an optional setting00:41
@pbmdawgbut that's another issue.00:41
@rizenok, we're getting off on a tangent here00:41
@rizeni wanted to keep this conversation short00:41
+perlDreamerso we agree that timezones on events and calendars are screwed up and that may affect caching00:41
@pbmdawgmove on to Post00:41
+crythiastimezones00:41
@rizenpost/thread is the big dog00:41
@rizenit's the hardest thing that webgui does00:42
@pbmdawgexcept there's not really a view method of post00:42
@rizenbecause the templates are so damn complex00:42
@rizentherefore, i think we need to cache00:42
@pbmdawgtimestamps are again an issue.00:42
@rizenand not only that, i believe we need to cache on a per user basis00:42
@pbmdawgscratch my last msg00:42
@rizeni know that there are many threads that people view multiple times between anything changing about them00:43
+crythias10,000 posts and 10,000 users.00:43
+perlDreamerwhat about caching Posts and assembling threads on a per-user basis?00:43
+perlDreamerrender the post, but only display it if the user can see it?00:43
+perlDreamerit's a big change from the way it's done now, though00:44
@rizenwe can't really cache posts, because the posts are embedded in the thread template00:44
@rizenunless we break the thread template apart00:44
+perlDreamerright.00:44
+perlDreamerthat's why I said it would be really different from how it's done now00:44
@pbmdawghere's (yet) another thought.  what about caching on a template variable level also......? :-P  I know, I'll shut up.00:44
+perlDreamerpmbdawg: wouldn't work for loops, and loops are probably the most expensive part00:45
@pbmdawgI mean in perl00:45
+perlDreamerooh00:45
@pbmdawgserialized data structures or something.00:45
@rizenthat's not a bad idea00:45
@rizeni think that's probably better than breaking out the posts and threads00:46
@pbmdawgeach template variable could be marked as cacheable or not..?00:46
@rizenwell i don't know about that00:46
+perlDreamerhow do you mark a perl variable?00:46
@pbmdawgthen an intelligent template variable generator could detect that and create them as appropriate00:46
@pbmdawgadd a hashref layer, and another key.00:46
+crythiasafter all this, is SQL still that much of a performance loser over cache?00:47
@rizenjamie, meatbop, think about how users use cs's00:47
@rizendo you see any problems with caching threads?00:47
@rizenor parts of threads?00:47
JamieOff hand no00:47
@pbmdawgwell, one of the post tmpl_var is isRead00:47
@rizenmeatbop, would it affect how you design CS thread templates?00:47
@pbmdawgso that would need to be changed after the first view00:48
Jamieare you still talking about caching globally or individual?00:48
@rizenare we saying then that we can't cache threads because of "isRead" and "views" etc00:49
@rizenchange from view to view?00:49
@rizenwe'd be caching each thread for each user00:49
@rizenjamie, that was to you00:49
Meatbopthis might be the same thing as the events, but the cache timeout would reset on edit of a post?00:50
@pbmdawgthat's already done for all assets.00:52
Meatbopk00:52
@pbmdawgediting/adding a post to a thread uncaches the thread globally00:52
xdangerhey, any comments on my bugs ?00:53
@pbmdawgxdanger: wait a while to talk about that please00:53
xdangerok00:53
@pbmdawgrizen: no, I wasn't saying we can't cache that stuff; I'm trying to make the point that perhaps we need a very flexible intelligent caching system.00:55
@rizenok00:55
@rizenso i just made a change on plainblack.com00:55
@rizeni think the templates aren't causing the big problem on posts00:55
@rizenand why they are slow00:55
@rizencheck out the bottom of any thread on plainblack.com00:56
* pbmdawg joins the rest of the room in DDOS'ing plainblack.com00:56
+crythiasvar time ... ouch00:56
@rizeni always thought it was template time00:56
@rizenbut holy crap00:56
@pbmdawgcool00:57
@pbmdawgso did I00:57
+perlDreamertemplate variable cacher ahoy00:57
+perlDreamerwiat00:57
+perlDreamerwait00:57
+perlDreamerdoes Var time include Asset creation, etc?00:57
@rizenno00:57
@rizenwell post asset creation00:57
@rizenbut not the thread itself00:58
+perlDreamerN post asset creations00:58
@rizenn post asset creation00:58
@rizenpagination00:58
@rizenetc00:58
@pbmdawgrizen: we should enable the performanceProfiler on plainblack.com sometime temporarily00:58
+perlDreamersome night00:58
@rizenok...so this is making me thing00:59
@rizenthink00:59
@rizenwe shouldn't cache posts/threads00:59
@rizenbut instead, solve our performance problems in thread variable creation00:59
+perlDreamerbut we don't know if it's just the thread variables.00:59
+perlDreamerit might be in nested asset creation00:59
+perlDreameror something else00:59
@pbmdawgrizen: put a timer wrapper around my %replyVars = %{$reply->getTemplateVars};01:00
@rizenultimately it is thread variables01:00
@rizencuz no matter what01:00
@rizenwe need to create those assets01:00
@rizenso they are PART of variable creation01:00
@pbmdawgto see if it's each reply, or if it's the thread itself01:00
+perlDreameryes01:00
+perlDreamerbut _if_ (and we don't know yet) it was Asset creation, then the entire site would benefit from the speed up01:01
+perlDreamerrather than only view methods01:01
+perlDreamerlet's track down the _real_ time sink and kill it01:01
+perlDreamerso we only have to do this once01:01
@rizenagreed01:01
@rizenall i'm saying is that templates aren't the culprit01:01
+perlDreamerokay, sorry if I went over the top there01:02
@rizenok i think ing generally01:02
@rizenin general01:02
@pbmdawgmy opinion is that we need the performance profiler01:02
@pbmdawgfor this specific question01:02
@rizeni've got what i've needed out of this conversation01:02
@rizenso let me state this one more time01:02
@rizenthen all of you please comment01:02
@rizenwe're going to:01:03
@rizena) do caching (or not) on a per asset (and ultimately per method) basis01:03
@rizenb) cache is always deleted on edit01:03
@rizenc) caching is generally not done for regular users, only visitors01:03
@rizend) remove the global cache settings that are attached to all assets right now01:04
@rizenare all those generally true?01:04
@rizenand does anyone have a problem with that?01:04
@pbmdawgthinking about d)01:05
+perlDreamere) We decide on what to cache based on some profiling of the PB site?01:05
@rizenfair enough01:05
@rizenon e01:05
+perlDreamerin that case I'm cool01:06
+perlDreamerwith a-e01:06
JamieI think it sounds good01:06
@rizenanybody have any comments, questions, or scathing rebuttle?01:06
@pbmdawgon c)01:06
MeatbopQuick question, would the cache setting cascade down to child elements?  Whether or not they should cache?01:06
@rizenmeatbop: could you elaborate?01:07
MeatbopSo for example, you create a folder and set it so that it doesn't cache, and all child elements created would also inherit that setting?  None of them would cache unless the user changed their setting?01:07
@rizenwell since caching is no longer a global setting, we wouldn't be able to do that01:08
@pbmdawgI think the asset developer should be given the ability to explain to the caching system which things the asset wants cacheable by any user or group of users, including Visitor01:08
@rizenyou won't be able to inherit cache timeouts01:08
@rizennor would you be able to recursively set them via editBranch01:08
Meatbophmm01:08
@pbmdawgon c), I think the asset developer should be given the ability to explain to the caching system which things the asset wants cacheable by any user or group of users, including Visitor01:09
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@rizenmatt: i have no idea what you're saying01:09
@rizenanybody else have comments?01:10
@pbmdawgwas c) a statement about API policy, or a statement about what would be done with each of the core assets01:10
@rizenc is decided by the developer, but as a general rule on core assets01:11
@pbmdawgk; I like a-e01:11
@rizenwe won't cache stuff for non visitors, unless we see a benefit01:11
@rizenanybody else?01:11
@rizenotherwise i'm calling this done01:11
Meatbopi also like the ideas01:11
@rizeni think eliminating page caching might slow us down just a bit, but ultimately it will have more of a "it just works" feel to users01:12
@rizencuz they are often confused by cache right now01:12
@rizenand rightly so01:12
@rizenand i think that the content chunking stuff, should more than compensate for whatever slowdown they experience01:13
@rizenoh...one more thing01:14
@rizeni think that purely static elements such as articles01:14
@rizenshould be cached globally for both visitors and users01:14
@rizenso one cache file, serves both types01:14
@rizenwhat say you?01:14
@pbmdawg(but cached via www_view in Article.pm )?01:14
+crythiasuntil people put dynamic content in an article.01:14
@pbmdawgI mean view()01:14
+crythias^SQL(stuff);01:14
@rizenthat will just be a caveat of article01:14
@rizenin those cases, they should use snippet01:15
@pbmdawgwon't be good for templates.01:15
+crythias^AssetProxy("MySQLReport");01:15
@rizenor turn the cache all the way off for that one asset01:15
@rizenreasonable?01:15
@pbmdawgfor that asset class or indiv. articles?01:15
@rizenindividual articles01:15
@pbmdawghow would you do that01:15
@rizenbecause for things that cache01:16
@rizenthere will be a cache timeout setting01:16
@rizenjust like there is now01:16
@pbmdawgoh.  okay.  I think.01:16
@rizenare we all good?01:16
@rizengoing once01:16
+crythiassure01:16
@rizengoing twice01:16
@rizensold01:16
+crythiasbuh bye (from me to all)01:16
@rizenk01:16
@rizenthanks everyone01:16
chansenperhaps a MRU cache?01:17
@rizenbye01:17
Meatbopcya01:17
@rizenmru?01:17
chansenMost Recently Used algorithm01:17
@rizenand why didn't you pipe up half an hour ago01:17
@rizenthat's already there01:17
* crythias has a MRU cache and empties it periodically. 01:17
@rizenthe caching system does that01:17
chansenok01:17
@rizenok..done01:17
@rizenlater01:17
@rizenbye01:17
chansencya01:17
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chansenIf there already is a MRU cache, why decide on what should be cached?01:18
+crythiasit's not really mru. except that it's cacheing stuff that's expired but hit01:19
+crythiasthat is, it resets cache timeout.01:20
+crythiasso MRY01:20
chansenok, that explains the earlier discussion01:20
+crythiasMRU01:20
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+crythiasgtg ttyl01:21
chansencya01:21
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bcnxhi Crythias18:26
bcnxfeel like taking another shot at my problem?18:26
bcnxor is it a bad time ...18:26
+crythiassure18:27
+MrHairgreasemaybe I can help out?18:27
bcnxyou're always welcome to! :-)18:27
+MrHairgreasewhat's the problem18:27
+crythiashttp://www.bitsntricks.com/18:27
+MrHairgreaseyeah that seems broken =)18:27
bcnxand: Can't call method "prepare" on an undefined value at /work/data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm18:27
+MrHairgreasewhat's causing it?18:27
bcnxin error log18:27
bcnxtestEnvironment.pl works OK18:28
+crythiasjust ... SELinux, if available, is disabled, right?18:28
+MrHairgreaseseems like your wg can't connect to your db18:28
bcnxit does following testEnvironment.pl18:28
+MrHairgreasehmm, weird18:28
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+MrHairgreasethat error's in your apache error log?18:28
+crythiasany possibility that there might be two DBI/DBDmysql's?18:28
+MrHairgreaseor in webgui.log?18:29
bcnxMrHairgrease: yes18:29
bcnxCryth: no18:29
+MrHairgreasepls wait18:29
+MrHairgreasetrying to reproduce18:29
bcnxwebgui.log is completely empty18:29
+MrHairgreaseyeah18:30
+MrHairgreaseb/c it can't do any sql queries18:30
+MrHairgreaseand therfore won't even com to logging18:30
bcnxmakes sense then18:30
bcnxi c18:30
bcnxI upgraded to Perl 5.8.7 some days ago18:30
bcnx(which broke other stuff by the way)18:30
+crythiasyes18:30
bcnxbut it worked fine for a couple of days18:30
+crythiasremove and recompile dbd-mysql18:31
+MrHairgreaseit did work?18:31
bcnxyes18:31
+MrHairgreasebut now it doesn't anymore?18:31
bcnxcrythias: you mean the Perl module?18:31
+MrHairgreaseand you did not change a thing?18:31
bcnxMr: correct18:31
+crythiasbcnx: yes18:31
bcnxMr: not to my recollection18:31
bcnxbut you know how it goed18:31
bcnxgoes18:31
+MrHairgreaseyeah =)18:31
bcnxcrythias: I installed the module with cpan18:32
bcnxI can uninstall und reinstall it18:32
+crythiasafter upgrade to 587?18:32
bcnxyes18:32
bcnxerrr18:32
bcnxI think the upgrade took care of the modules18:32
+crythiasnot likely18:32
bcnxI think also that one18:32
bcnxI'll quickly do it18:32
+crythiasalso mod_perl2 if you've changed perl after install18:34
+crythiasin fact ... yeah. that makes a lot of sense.18:34
bcnxI installed mod_perl2 manually afterwards18:34
+crythiasok18:34
bcnxthe DBI::DBD module, right?18:35
+crythiasDBD::mysql50-3.x18:36
bcnxI got DBD::mysql18:36
bcnxversion 3.000218:36
bcnxthe only available on CPAN18:37
+crythiasfresh install?18:37
bcnxI'll remove it  now, then I suppose it's fresh18:37
+MrHairgreasebcnx18:37
bcnxyez18:37
+MrHairgreasewhich version are you on?18:37
bcnx6.8.718:37
+MrHairgreaseok18:37
+MrHairgreasei'll try with that one18:38
bcnxreinstalling DBD::mysql no18:38
bcnxw18:38
bcnxModule 'DBD::mysql' installed successfully18:38
+crythiasrestart apache18:39
bcnxdid that18:39
+crythiashttpd-error.log?18:39
bcnxlet me reinstall mod_perl218:39
bcnxcan't do taht with cpan, because it installs mod_perl, not mod_perl218:39
bcnxso need to do that manually18:39
+crythiasapache's old, too18:40
+crythiasnot that that matters for this case.18:40
+MrHairgrease[Wed Apr 05 17:45:07 2006] [error] [client 145.94.32.124] Can't call method "prepare" on an undefined value at /zut/domains/cvs_webgui_nl/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm line 473.\n18:47
+MrHairgreasereproduction!18:47
+MrHairgreasebcnx18:47
bcnxaha!18:47
bcnxhow?18:47
+MrHairgreasewrong db user18:47
+MrHairgreasequestion18:47
bcnxI'm sure that's not the case18:47
bcnxI created a second db18:48
+MrHairgreasedo you have the wg site inside a virtual host?18:48
bcnxchanged the conf18:48
bcnxno18:48
+MrHairgreaseso you have only one error log from apache?18:48
bcnxit's "virtually" driving me crazy, but that's it  ;-)18:48
bcnxoops18:48
+MrHairgreasewhat's it?18:48
bcnxI thought you meant virtual machines like vmware18:48
bcnxi'm sorry18:48
+MrHairgreasenono18:48
bcnxyes, I do have virtual hosts18:49
+MrHairgreaseah18:49
bcnxwait a sec18:49
+MrHairgreasethen you also have to error logs18:49
bcnxI get something funny now18:49
+MrHairgreaselook in the error log of the base apache18:49
bcnxI was reinstalling libapreq218:49
bcnxI need that for mod_perl218:49
bcnxIt worked before, but now it says:18:49
bcnxconfigure: error: Bad apache2 binary (/)18:50
+MrHairgreasethat's not good18:50
bcnxwhile the parameters to configure are correct18:50
bcnxit seems that the bin is broken18:50
bcnxlet me quickly launch it18:50
bcnxmmm18:50
bcnxI can launch it: apxs218:51
+MrHairgreaseyou would say that if the bin's broken it would segfault or something in stead of returning an error18:51
+MrHairgreaseplease look in the other apache log18:51
bcnx./configure: line 1: apxs: command not found18:51
bcnx./configure: line 1: apxs: command not found18:51
bcnx./configure: line 1: apxs: command not found18:51
bcnx./configure: line 1: apxs: command not found18:51
bcnx./configure: line 1: apxs: command not found18:51
bcnxbuild/version_check.pl failed: no version_string found in '' for 'apache2'.18:51
bcnxconfigure: error: Bad apache2 binary (/)18:51
bcnxok18:52
+MrHairgreasemine says18:52
+MrHairgreaseDBI connect('cvs_webgui_nl','cvs_webgui_n',...) failed: Access denied for user 'cvs_webgui_n'@'localhost' (using password: YES) at /zut/domains/cvs_webgui_nl/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Session.pm line 29718:52
+MrHairgreasewhich is actually the real error in my case18:52
+MrHairgreasethe other error is just a symptom18:52
bcnxI have a bunvj of other errors no, I think because of the fact that I uninstalled mod_perl218:53
bcnxneed to reinstall that first18:53
+MrHairgreaseyeah18:53
+MrHairgreasecompiling apache sucks big time18:53
+crythias.49 <.5518:54
bcnxI use the rpms18:54
+MrHairgreaseah18:54
bcnxI shy away fro mcompiling stuff18:54
+MrHairgreaseheh18:54
bcnxI installed Perl without the RPMs18:54
bcnxand today this companyh didn't get mail for 6 hours18:55
bcnxNet::Server broke Amavais18:55
bcnxAmavis18:55
+MrHairgreaseouch18:55
bcnxyep18:55
bcnxtook me a long time to figure that one out18:55
bcnxopen source is cool and all18:55
+MrHairgreaseyou can have different perls next to eachother on one system18:55
bcnxbut you can get heaps of trouble18:55
+MrHairgreaseso can closed source18:55
bcnxI know, but I don't know how to point webgui to another version of perl18:56
+MrHairgreaseat procolix we have dozens of perls next to eachother on one system18:56
bcnxwith index.pl you could simply point to another perl bin18:56
+MrHairgreaseworks like a charm18:56
+MrHairgreaseyeah18:56
bcnxare you from procolix? cool!18:56
+MrHairgreaseI think so =)18:56
bcnxhow do you point to another perl then?18:56
bcnxkunnen we i nhet nederlands verder gaan ;-)18:57
+MrHairgreaseyou can only point wg to another version by recompiling mod_perl18:57
+MrHairgreaseyeah18:57
+MrHairgreasebut I don't think all those yankees would like that18:57
bcnxbut every system using mod_perl will be using the alternative perl then18:57
+MrHairgreasemod_perl is actually a bunch of perl modules18:57
+MrHairgreaseno18:57
+MrHairgreaseb/c we have a lot of diffrent mod_perls too =)18:58
bcnxhuh18:58
+MrHairgreasethe idea is that if we want to migrate one site to another box18:58
+MrHairgreasewe only have to copy the directory18:58
+MrHairgreasealso it protects you from bombing other sites on your system18:58
bcnxI see18:59
+MrHairgreaseso if I need the newest apche/modperl/whatever18:59
bcnxso you install mod_perl in different folders and change httpd.conf18:59
+MrHairgreaseI'll install it in the directory that contains cvs.webgui.nl18:59
+MrHairgreaseno18:59
+MrHairgreasewe compile everything (apache/modperl/perl) from scratch19:00
+MrHairgreasefor each webserver we run19:00
+MrHairgreasewe have one server running shared hosting19:00
+MrHairgreaseand a bunch for bigger customers19:00
bcnxso you run seperate apaches?19:00
+MrHairgreaseyeah19:00
+MrHairgreasea lot19:00
bcnxhow do you deal then with the ports?19:01
+MrHairgreaseyou only need enough ip's =)19:01
bcnxok19:01
bcnxi c19:01
bcnxthat I don't have19:01
bcnxjust one public19:01
+MrHairgreaseok19:01
+MrHairgreasebut you can still use a specific perl installation by compiling mod-perl19:01
+MrHairgreaseuse the --with-perl flag in the perl Makefiel.PL19:02
+MrHairgreasehowever19:02
bcnxdang19:02
+MrHairgreaserunning from rpms should work19:02
bcnxstill problems compiling libapreq219:02
bcnxwhat the heck is going on here19:02
bcnxno, the rpms for SLES9 are too old for Perl19:02
+MrHairgreasedoes suse not have an liapreq rmp?19:02
+MrHairgreasein that case19:03
+MrHairgreaseyou might wanna try the wre19:03
bcnxit's ok now19:03
bcnxwas typo19:03
bcnxmy bad19:03
bcnxI'm a certified idiot19:03
* MrHairgrease wipes bcnx' head19:03
+MrHairgreasehey, who isn't19:04
+MrHairgreaseI know I am19:04
+MrHairgreasejust don't have the diploma yet =)19:04
bcnx:-)19:05
bcnxalmost done here19:05
bcnxmodperl is installing (I think)19:05
+MrHairgreasecross your thumbs19:05
bcnxdo you have anything to do with the guys that are going to translate Webgui in Dutch?19:05
+MrHairgreaseyou mean the wossa?19:06
bcnxyes19:06
+MrHairgreaseYeah sot of19:06
+MrHairgreasesort*19:06
bcnxah, I've just been appraoched to help out by a guy named Arjan19:06
+MrHairgreasewe talked a bit yesterday on how to streamline it19:06
+MrHairgreaseyeah I know arjan19:06
+MrHairgreasehe's cool19:07
bcnxdon't really know him19:07
bcnxbut he seems nice enough19:07
+MrHairgreasethere are more people who want to help out in translating19:07
+MrHairgreaseso we figured we needed to have some webinterface or whatever to streamline their efforts19:07
+MrHairgreaseand keeping stuff up to date easy19:08
bcnxyeah, sure, to avoid double work at least19:08
+MrHairgreaseso I was thinking of some simple webeditor tool that can diff between releases and allows you to correct typo's and other errors other people made19:09
bcnxinstalling the mod_perl modules now19:09
+MrHairgreasewhile still haviing the complete translation history for everyone to view19:09
+MrHairgreasea bit like a wiki19:09
+MrHairgreaseBut I'm sure you'll here more of it soon19:09
+MrHairgreasevery cool that you'd like to help translating19:10
bcnxwell, it's also in my own interest19:10
bcnxI'd like to sell webgui based hosting19:10
bcnxjsut starting out my own business19:10
+MrHairgreaseyour planning on your own business19:11
+MrHairgreaseor have you started already?19:11
bcnxI've started in "bijberoep" :-)19:11
+MrHairgreasebijberoep19:11
+MrHairgreasezoiets als het erbij doen?19:11
bcnxyep19:12
+MrHairgreaseah19:12
bcnxpost-nine to five19:12
+MrHairgreaseah i see19:12
bcnxI've been in the private industry for 12 years now19:12
bcnxbut got fed up with it19:12
+MrHairgreasea five to nine job =)19:12
+MrHairgreasewhat do you do?19:12
bcnxso I switched to the public  world19:12
bcnx:-D19:12
+MrHairgreaseprogramming19:12
+MrHairgreasesystem administaritin?19:12
bcnxno, network administration19:12
bcnxbut I know some perl and PHP19:13
+MrHairgreasemy php is rather bad19:13
+MrHairgreasebut then, I never use it so who cares...19:13
bcnxmine too, but it's very easy to take up again19:13
+MrHairgreaseyeah. php is easy19:13
bcnxI do rarely19:13
+MrHairgreaseperl is easy too19:13
+MrHairgreasethat's what I really like about perl19:14
+MrHairgreasethat, and cpan19:14
bcnxit' not my daily routine, and since I'm a parttime idiot, it always talks me two days to get into the programming state of mind again, but it's fun19:14
+MrHairgreasethat's what i think19:15
bcnxtalks = takes19:15
+MrHairgreaseI'm also only a part time programmer19:15
+MrHairgreasethe rest of the time I pretend to study19:16
bcnx:-)19:16
bcnxanyhoe19:16
bcnxmod_perl2 is reinstalled19:16
bcnxsame result :-(19:16
+MrHairgreasewhat result19:16
bcnxsite down19:16
+MrHairgreasecannot prepare...19:16
+MrHairgreasethat error?19:16
bcnxI was just looking at the website: 500 error19:17
bcnxlet me check the log19:17
bcnxone log has constantly the prepare error19:17
bcnxlet me check the other log files19:18
bcnxnothing spectacular19:19
bcnxnothing relevant19:19
+MrHairgreasehmm, weird19:20
bcnxwait a sex19:20
bcnxsec19:20
bcnxoops19:20
+MrHairgreaseheh19:20
bcnxtestEnvironment complains now19:20
+MrHairgreasethat was a cool typo19:20
+MrHairgreaseah that's good19:20
bcnxI did some testing with crythias yesterday19:21
bcnxperhaps I forgot to reset things19:21
bcnxthe db info in the conf is still ok19:21
bcnxyet it doesn't connect19:21
bcnxlet me try to do a mysqldump19:22
+MrHairgreasedid you use dsn=DBI:mysql:myUserName?19:22
+MrHairgreasemyUserName = myDBName19:22
bcnxthe dump doesn't work19:22
bcnxstrange19:23
bcnxlet me assign privileges again19:23
bcnxOK, changed them19:24
bcnxmmm19:24
bcnxsame result19:25
bcnxbut testEnvironment.pl works now19:25
bcnxpermission to pull out my hair?19:25
+MrHairgreasedid you grant all privileges?19:25
+MrHairgreaseor just some?19:25
bcnxall19:26
bcnxjust like in https://www.plainblack.com/installing_webgui19:26
WRE<bcnx> http://tinyurl.com/rgk4919:26
+MrHairgreasetry this grant all privileges on www_<font size="3">example_com.* to webgui@'%.%.%.%' identfied by 'password'</font>19:28
+MrHairgreasehmm19:28
+MrHairgreasesry for that19:28
+MrHairgreasegrant all privileges on www_exeample_com.* to user@'%.%.%.%' identified by 'password19:29
+MrHairgreaseor maybe it should be19:29
bcnxwhat do the % -mean?19:29
+MrHairgreasegrant all privileges on www_exeample_com.* to user  identified by 'password19:29
+MrHairgrease% is a wildcard19:29
+MrHairgreasemeans any number19:29
bcnxi did: mysql -e "grant all privileges on www_bitsntricks_com.* to webgui@localhost identified by 'yeahright'"19:30
+MrHairgreaseit could be that your webserver is trying to connect through a port or something19:30
+MrHairgreaseand testEnvironment is going directly through the socket19:31
bcnxi c19:31
bcnxlet me try19:31
+MrHairgreaseim just guessing19:31
+MrHairgreasebut I had a problem like that once19:31
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bcnxnope19:32
bcnxno luck19:32
+MrHairgreaseit was a long shot19:32
+MrHairgreaseI'm getting out of idea's19:32
+MrHairgreasemaat19:32
+MrHairgreasecan you help out19:32
bcnxmakker19:32
bcnx:-)19:33
+MrHairgreasesorry19:33
+MrHairgreasei meant matt19:33
+MrHairgreasenot maat19:33
+MrHairgrease=)19:33
bcnxwho's matt?19:33
+MrHairgreaseever seen this error in the apache error log:  [Wed Apr 05 17:45:07 2006] [error] [client 145.94.32.124] Can't call method "prepare" on an undefined value at /zut/domains/cvs_webgui_nl/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm line 473.\n19:33
+MrHairgreasematt == pbmdawg19:34
bcnxi c19:34
bcnxthe error is well known19:34
+MrHairgreaseyet testEnvironment does not complain and can connect to the db19:34
bcnxbut it mostly means that the account info for mysql is wrong19:34
bcnxindeed19:34
@pbmdawgyeah; it can't find your conf19:36
@pbmdawgwhich version of wG19:36
+MrHairgrease6.8.719:36
+MrHairgreaseright?19:36
bcnxyes19:36
@pbmdawgpaste your apache vhost please19:37
bcnxok19:37
bcnxdoes anybody know the paste-utility from crythias again?19:38
+MrHairgreaserafb.net19:38
bcnxhttp://rafb.net/paste/results/ytKFOr52.html19:39
WRE<bcnx> http://tinyurl.com/hvome19:39
@pbmdawgcan you paste the section of your apache conf wherein you set your WebguiRoot variable?19:41
bcnxok19:42
bcnx# Added for WebGui19:42
bcnxLoadModule apreq_module /usr/lib/apache2/mod_apreq2.so19:42
bcnx#LoadModule perl_module /usr/lib/apache2/mod_perl.so19:42
bcnxPerlSetVar WebguiRoot /work/data/WebGUI19:42
bcnxPerlCleanupHandler Apache2::SizeLimit19:42
bcnxPerlRequire /work/data/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl19:42
bcnxAPREQ2_ReadLimit 1024M19:42
@pbmdawgfinally, can you paste your preload.perl contents19:45
bcnxok19:45
@pbmdawgwhy is mod_perl commented out? b/c it's enabled elsewhere?19:45
bcnxyes19:45
@pbmdawgok19:45
bcnxhttp://www.rafb.net/paste/results/ZhEygI98.html19:46
WRE<bcnx> http://tinyurl.com/jh8p719:46
+crythiasah19:47
+crythiasoh19:47
+crythiasnm19:47
+crythiaswhen I'm asking for httpd-error.log, you're giving me bitsntricks-error_log, right?19:48
bcnxyes19:48
+crythiasUseCanonicalName shouldn't be in the VirtualHost, should it?19:48
@pbmdawgjust for kicks, can you confirm that there is no index.pl anythere in any of the documentroots19:49
bcnxcrythias: it's set to "off"19:50
+crythiasthe heck? two <Directory "">'s and one </Directory>?19:50
@pbmdawggood catch19:50
@pbmdawgapache should whine about that19:50
bcnxI don't see it in my original file, perhaps it was an error in pasting19:51
bcnxlet me doublecheck19:51
+crythiashttp://rafb.net/paste/results/ytKFOr52.html19:51
WRE<crythias> http://tinyurl.com/hvome19:51
+crythias90 and 13319:51
bcnxwhat the ...19:52
+crythiasshouldn't need the mod_userdir.c19:52
bcnxno, it's an error with pasting19:52
@pbmdawgok19:52
bcnxthe conf file is an adapted copy of an example file supplied by Suse19:53
@pbmdawgwhen starting apache, do you get...  Starting WebGUI 6.8.719:53
@pbmdawgif you start using -x19:53
+MrHairgreasehttp://rafb.net/paste/results/YpEBSg12.html19:54
WRE<MrHairgrease> http://tinyurl.com/llfmt19:54
+MrHairgreasethat one definately works19:54
+MrHairgreasemaybe it is of some help19:54
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+MrHairgreaseyou should also see that whe you start the server without -x19:54
@pbmdawgoh19:55
+MrHairgrease-x is just single server mode19:55
+MrHairgreasei think19:55
bcnxlet me check rcapache219:57
bcnxnope19:58
bcnxjust "SSL" as a startup flag19:58
+MrHairgreasei'm going afk for a while19:59
+MrHairgreasetime to microwave chinese leftovers19:59
bcnx:-)20:00
bcnxenjoy20:00
bcnxfor me it's also about time to eat20:00
bcnxwhat do you think guys, in conclusion20:00
@pbmdawgwhat happens if you try to execute preload.perl by itself20:00
bcnxshould I install WRE to fix all this?20:00
bcnxStarting WebGUI 6.8.720:01
bcnxCan't locate object method "server" via package "Apache2::ServerUtil" at preload.perl line 57.20:01
bcnxI've had that since the beginning, when it still worked20:01
@pbmdawgwhen what still worked20:01
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bcnxmy site20:02
bcnxwebgui20:02
@pbmdawgit worked at one point?20:02
bcnxyes20:02
bcnxand the trouble is that I can't pinpoint what destroyed it20:02
bcnxI thought i hadn't touched it20:02
@pbmdawgdid you upgrade mysql?20:02
bcnxno20:03
bcnxwas 5.0 from the beginning20:03
bcnxthe only thing I remember was setting the root password to nothing20:03
bcnxwell, if noone has any more ideas I wonna call it a day20:08
bcnxI think I will install WRE and try to integrate it in SLES9, hopefully without breaking too much stuff ...20:08
bcnxthat's probably the best strategy from here20:09
bcnx(I should get a medal for perseverence  ;-) )20:09
bcnxthx all for assisting20:10
bcnxsee you later20:10
* bcnx is away: bcnx20:11
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+crythiasRoy!20:54
@pbmdawgdangit20:54
@snapcountguilty as charged20:54
+crythiasLTNS20:55
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@snapcountdidn't someone in here report the cached debug output bug22:10
@snapcountwell if you're here22:14
@snapcounthere's the deal22:14
@snapcountare you saying that it still displays debug to someone who is not logged in that is coming from the IP addr entered?22:15
@snapcountor to a visitor coming from a diff ip?22:15
xdangersnapcount: visitor coming from a diff ip22:30
@snapcountyeah I just dupped it22:31
@snapcountthx22:31
xdangerwhat was the problem ?22:31
@snapcountI'm not sure yet22:32
@snapcountI'm working on it now22:33
xdangerhow did you duplicate it ?22:35
@snapcountturn debug on22:36
@snapcountset an ip22:36
xdangerI've been workin on webgui 6.8 upgrade for a couple of days now =) and have to say that I'm starting to understand how it works ;)22:36
@snapcountview from the set ip22:36
@snapcountunset the ip22:36
@snapcountlog out22:36
@snapcountit's cached22:36
xdangerok22:36
@snapcountthat's good22:36
@snapcountthe good news is22:37
@snapcount80% of it will be different in 7.022:37
@snapcount=)22:37
xdangerI've mostly done work on 6.7 and been following the development of 6.9x with keen interest22:38
xdangerI've submited to a rss:feed from the svn22:38
xdangersnapcount: any comments on this: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1463411&group_id=51417&atid=46321322:42
WRE<xdanger> http://tinyurl.com/zyehq22:42
@snapcountno... I'll have to look into it more to give any kind of intelligent opinion22:46
xdangerI just added or status='denied' or status='pending' to the where clause of sub new in Asset.pm22:50
xdangerwould like to know if that breaks anything =)22:50
@snapcountbest thing to do would be to send that to the dev list22:59
@snapcountcrap22:59
@snapcountI can't dup this bug22:59
@snapcountI'm a moron22:59
@snapcountI forgot to turn debug off23:00
@snapcount=)23:00
@snapcountafter turning it off, I see no cached output23:00
@snapcountcan you dup this still?23:00
@snapcountif so, are you sure it's WG caching the output and not your browser?23:01
@snapcountyou can determine this by deleting /tmp/WebGUICache... if that fixes the problem, then it's a WG issue23:02
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xdangerIt was found by a client of my client, he said that there was some wierd text on their site... I think it isn't so straightforward than just turnig debug of23:26
xdangerHmm.. I'll try something..23:26
xdangerlittle bit later23:26
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xdangersnapcount: got it...23:38
@snapcountgot what?23:39
@snapcounta way to dup?23:39
xdangerI made the debug visible to ip A and did a rm -R /tmp/WebGUICache and loaded a cached page with a visitor from there, and then viewed it as an visitor from another ip23:40
xdangerit showed the debug code23:40
@snapcountit did this after deleting the wG cache?23:40
xdangeryeap23:40
@snapcountthen it can't be WebGUI23:41
@snapcountunless we're not sending the correct cache control headers23:41
@snapcountbut I'm pretty sure they're right23:41
xdangerI mean, I did a pageload from a valid debug ip, to a empty cache webgui and then a page load from another ip that wasn't on the list..23:42
xdangerboth as a visitor23:42
xdangerIt is definedly the same debug since the debug on the not-in-list-ip show env.REMOTE_ADDR as the ip on the list23:45
@snapcountok23:45
@snapcountso if you delete the cache, does that fix the problem?23:45
@snapcountI understand you started with a clean cache23:46
@snapcountthat's good23:46
xdangeryes23:46
@snapcountit fixes it?23:46
xdangerwell it removes the debug from the view of the not-in-the-list-ip =)23:47
@snapcountyikes!23:47
xdangerit might be the cache for visitor thats the couse here23:47
@snapcountcan you re-open the bug and list your exact steps as a comment23:47
@snapcountI'm working on another one now23:48
@snapcountbut I'll come back to this23:48
@snapcountthank you for helping out btw23:48
xdangerI don't have a sf.net account... since some fuckup registered it before me, and doesn't even use it =/23:48
@snapcountthat's ok23:48
@snapcountyou can do it anonymous can't you23:49
xdangerso, do I add an new bug, or can I open the old one ?23:49
xdangerCould the couse for this effect be mod_proxy ?23:49
xdangerwe'll I don't think it cache the pages for that long time23:50
xdangersnapcount: so, a new bug, or a comment on the old one ?23:58
@snapcounta comment on the old one is fine23:58
@snapcountand change the status to open23:58
xdangerI can't changestatus... I think I can't...23:59
xdangermight be missing something...23:59
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+MrHairgreaselen!01:36
lenthamenhey Martin01:56
lenthamenhoegatie01:57
+MrHairgreasegoed01:57
+MrHairgreasedon't you have to sleep01:57
+MrHairgreasebeing a father and working bee and all that =)01:57
lenthamenGoing to bed soon....01:57
+MrHairgreaseyeah01:57
+MrHairgreaseme too01:57
lenthamendo you have to work tomorrow ?01:58
lenthamenGoing offline. ttyl.01:59
+MrHairgreaseyeah02:00
+MrHairgreaseI'm working to morrow02:00
+MrHairgreasecya later02:00
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* rizen burns crythias to the ground03:17
+crythiasthe heck?03:17
@rizenjust seeing if you're paying attention03:17
@rizen=)03:17
+crythiasI'm burned in effigy, baby... ooooh ooh ooh oh03:18
+crythiashttp://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/greg_kihn_band/jeopardy.html03:19
WRE<crythias> http://tinyurl.com/fv3p203:19
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+crythiasI have to say that I did like zope for its inheritance and edit-then-publish for content.03:22
+crythiassigh03:23
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BaylinkMornin' all.16:45
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@pbmdawgwelcome len16:57
lenthamenhey matthew17:05
lenthamenWhen will WebGUI 7.0 come alive ?17:05
@pbmdawg7.00 should be final/stable/bugfree by Aug 1.  plainblack.com will be upgraded to 6.99.0 (alpha) by May 1.17:07
@pbmdawgdoes that help?17:08
+crythiasin other news, France Surrenders.17:11
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lenthamenMay 1st... That in 3 weeks ! Coolio.17:44
BaylinkNaw; I don't like his hair.17:48
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+perlDreamercalc E-ROD18:48
WREE-ROD = Evil Release Overlord and Destructor18:48
+perlDreamerE-ROD lives!18:48
+perlDreamer(but is very quiet)18:50
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@pbmdawgE-ROD is in class19:06
+perlDreamerI see19:07
+perlDreamer{on,off}line19:07
@pbmdawgoff19:07
@pbmdawgafk19:07
+perlDreamerThe lights are on, but nobody is home19:08
@pbmdawgnewspapers piling up on the front lawn19:12
@pbmdawgor are those rss entries19:13
+perlDreamerno, those are bad SVN commits by volunteers19:13
+perlDreamerI am the loop meister19:23
@pbmdawgmap(grep($_,@_),$_)19:30
+perlDreamer()19:31
+perlDreamerusing map in null context19:31
+perlDreamerThe Group test is getting big19:32
@pbmdawgdoes it test for recursive group detection yet19:34
+perlDreameryes19:34
+perlDreamerit has for a while19:34
@pbmdawgfor addToGroup and isInGroup19:34
+perlDreamerboth19:34
@pbmdawgneat19:34
+perlDreamerit has 82 hand written tests19:35
+perlDreamerwell, my local version has 8219:35
+perlDreamerthe committed one has about 7019:35
+perlDreameronce the karma stuff is done, I'll do a commit19:35
@pbmdawggonna lie down for a while; bbl19:35
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@snapcountecho22:12
+perlDreamerpong22:12
xdangerecho22:12
+perlDreamerE-ROD lives!22:12
@snapcountfor now22:12
@snapcount=)22:12
+perlDreamerhave you seen my new, mad User and Group tests?22:13
@snapcountI noticed a bunch of new stuff when I updated22:13
+perlDreamerI've gotten tired of writing lots of test code, so I started writing tests inside of loops, all driven by data structures22:21
@snapcountgrr22:45
@snapcountaparently the RTE insert collateral popup doesn't work any longer22:45
@snapcountperlDreamer: it was you!!!23:01
@snapcountit's all your fault23:01
@snapcountnow you've done it23:01
@snapcountit's all over now23:01
* snapcount sighs23:02
@snapcountif we had smoke tests running on branch, this would have been detected23:08
* snapcount stomps his feet and pouts23:08
@snapcountwell, it's fixed now so I suppose you're forgiven23:09
@snapcountI'm glad we had this talk23:09
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* snapcount scratches his head23:17
* crythias passes some "Head & shoulders" ...23:17
@snapcountthx23:18
@snapcountso crythias23:18
+crythiasSelsun Blue23:18
@snapcountI can't dup this bug23:18
+crythiasDennorex23:18
@snapcountcare to give it a go23:18
+crythiasItchy, Flaky, scalp. Neutrogena T-Gel23:18
+crythias:) yes!23:18
@snapcount143992323:19
@snapcountmake sure you're working out of svn23:19
@snapcountand that you update23:19
+crythiasoh. :( might be an issue.23:19
@snapcountactually23:19
@snapcountit may not matter23:19
@snapcountthe bug I just fixed didn't exist last release23:20
@snapcountso you should be able to use the RTE23:20
+crythiaslike, demo?23:21
@snapcountyep23:22
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+crythia1grr23:23
+crythia1http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1144353331_349/home?op=switchOffAdmin23:23
WRE<crythia1> http://tinyurl.com/e9osy23:23
+crythia1at the end, I uploaded a linked image23:24
@snapcountthe image appears to be human23:24
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+crythiasI keep being dropped23:26
+crythiasnot happy23:26
+crythiastwo image upload buttons23:27
@snapcountyeah23:27
@snapcountinsert/edit image23:28
@snapcountand insert collateral23:28
@snapcountthey both work for me23:28
@snapcounty tu?23:28
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@snapcountwhat is your malfunction23:29
+crythia1beats the heck out of me.23:29
@snapcountdo you have like a morse code connection or something23:29
+crythia1I keep getting dropped23:29
@snapcountkeying bit by bit23:29
+crythia1yeah23:29
@snapcountso what's the verdict?23:30
+crythia1ok. but the example given in the bug isn't bad23:30
+crythia1unless it's index.html bad23:30
+crythia1how do I upload an image...23:30
@snapcountmaybe this happens if you set a page extension in settings23:30
@snapcountor maybe he's exporting the content23:31
@snapcountyou can't directly from the RTE23:31
@snapcountthat feature is coming back though23:31
@snapcountyou have to use filepile23:31
@snapcountthen select the image using insert collateral in the RTE23:31
+crythia1filepile prepended the url23:32
+crythia1but that's expected behavior23:33
+crythia1having trouble choosing an image.23:33
@snapcountclick on the dot to pick the object23:34
@snapcountuse the link to get to it23:35
+crythia1ok.23:35
+crythia1I don't have home/uploads.23:36
@snapcountyou have just uploads right23:36
+crythia1yeah.23:36
+crythia1I'm thinking... what? gateway url issue in .conf?23:36
@snapcountwell, these guys use wG for creating content23:37
@snapcountthen they export it to static files23:37
@snapcountand send it to mirrors23:37
@snapcountand it's not a new install, so there site settings should be correct23:37
@snapcounts/there/their23:38
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+crythia1I don't see the issue.23:38
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+crythiasadded article on different page23:39
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--- Day changed Fri Apr 07 2006
@snapcountperlDreamer: ping00:29
+perlDreamerahoy00:29
+perlDreamerWhat can I do for you today?00:30
+perlDreamerWould you like to play a game of chess?00:30
@snapcountwould you mind running through 6.8.8... I'm doing a release tonight00:30
@snapcountwant to test it out00:30
@snapcountmake sure everything is up to snuff00:30
+perlDreameris the bug list updated with what you've fixed?00:31
@snapcountyeah00:31
@snapcounteverything on JT's list is fixed00:31
+perlDreamereven the calendar?00:31
@snapcountexcept the calendar stuff00:31
+perlDreamerah00:31
@snapcounttoo much work, not enough time00:32
+perlDreamerI know00:32
+perlDreamerI'll look after I find out why my scratchFilter tests are failing00:32
+perlDreameranything in particular you'd like me to look at?00:32
@snapcountmaybe you could run the test suite against it00:33
+perlDreamerI can do that, but the 6.8.8 test suite is way smaller than the 6.9 one00:33
@snapcountother than that, look at the changelog and look for anything that may have been broken by the change00:33
@snapcountif you can think of anything00:34
@snapcountso if someone changed dataform, make sure the dataform still works00:34
@snapcountI'll be doing the same00:34
+perlDreamerafter this is the plan to start kicking butt on 6.99, or 6.8.9?00:35
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+perlDreameryo *dawg00:35
@pbmdawgyo *reamer00:36
@snapcountwell, we have 6.99 feature freeze in 3 weeks00:36
@pbmdawgYES00:36
@snapcounthowever, 7.0 won't be declared stable for quite some time00:36
@snapcountso there are likely to be several more 6.9 releases00:37
@snapcounter 6.800:37
@snapcountpbmdawg: welcome back to life00:38
@snapcountwe still need to talk00:38
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pbmdaw1how does one collide nicks00:45
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BaylinkHas anyone played with using a Navigation to provide Google with a sitemap XML file?17:31
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sanyockHi guys! Please suggest, does current version work with mysql 4x or only 5x?19:26
xdanger4.1 works19:47
sanyockthanks19:47
sanyockwill it work with the latest 6.x or may be 7.0?19:48
xdangerbut I'm not sure about coming 6.99 version..19:48
xdangerI'll work with 6.8.x19:48
sanyockok19:48
xdangerIt'll19:49
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sanyockHello !19:38
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+crythias!bofh18:27
WREBOFH Quick-excuse: dry joints on cable plug18:27
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sanyockHi All18:33
+crythiasmost humble greetings, etc.18:33
+MrHairgreasehi18:34
* sanyock very curious about 7.0 release estimated date :)18:34
+MrHairgreasewho isn't18:34
sanyock:)18:35
+MrHairgreasebut may 1 should be code freeze18:35
sanyockI wonder if the system is currently been developped by about two persons (management not counted)18:36
sanyockbug system has assignments for two persons only18:36
+MrHairgreaseThere's more than two people18:37
sanyockmay be I miss a lot (core, etc), it is just my IMHO18:37
+MrHairgreasealthough the pb guys do an awful lot18:37
sanyocksure18:37
+MrHairgreaseI'm only a part time programmer18:37
+MrHairgreaseSo I have less time t ofix bugs18:38
+MrHairgreaseI am busy with integrating the sqlform into 718:38
+MrHairgreaseand I'm working on graphing18:38
+MrHairgreasea grpahing subsystem*18:38
sanyockwonder why there are so many cms's available, why people spend so many resources on them18:40
sanyockfor example there are may be about 10 compeeting internet browsers18:41
sanyock3 popular search engines18:41
sanyockand about 550 cms's registered at cmsmatrix18:41
sanyockmay it is only a half18:42
sanyockI tried so many and webgui is the only I liked18:42
+MrHairgreaseyeah18:42
sanyockalso learning typo3 currently18:42
+MrHairgreasea lot of them also suck very hard18:43
+MrHairgreaseb/c there a hobby project18:43
+MrHairgreasewithout vision18:43
+MrHairgreasenever used typo318:43
+MrHairgreasebut I heard it's pretty good18:43
+MrHairgreasealso pretty hard to learn18:43
sanyockyes, it is unusual18:43
+crythiasI have a WebGUI FAQ. Although I'm likely to revamp it.18:44
+MrHairgreaseAre you gonnan choose typo over wg?18:44
sanyockactually after reviewving so many cms's I decided to use only two open source: WebGUI and may be typo318:44
+MrHairgreasehey gerald18:44
+crythiasheya18:44
sanyockI use webgui at my job18:44
+crythiascome 7.0, I'm probably going to start all over.18:44
sanyockand going to use typo3 for my personal site18:45
+MrHairgreasewg is my job =)18:45
+crythiasI'm merely a pita helper.18:45
sanyockAlso looking at MS Portal for intranet18:45
+crythiasand once in a while I help debug.18:45
sanyockhttp://kurgan.pfr.ru is running webgui18:46
+MrHairgreaseMS Portal...18:46
+MrHairgreaseis that any good?18:46
+MrHairgreasemucho $$$ I presume.18:46
sanyocki do not know right now18:46
sanyockin russia it does not matter :)18:46
sanyockat least for internal sites18:46
+MrHairgrease=)18:46
+MrHairgreaseToo bad my russian stops at vodka18:47
+MrHairgreaseand I don't even know how to spell that =)18:47
sanyockand white bears ? ;)18:48
+MrHairgreasenah18:49
+MrHairgreasedon't know 'em18:49
sanyocknot sure if WebGUI will include a tag cleaner18:55
sanyockit would be very convenient if wev preview taken from ms office be automitaclly cleaned18:55
sanyockleave only a small set like: <p>, <table>18:55
sanyockremove all style=18:55
+MrHairgreaseI think TinyMCE can already do that18:56
+crythiasbluggable into tinymce18:56
+crythiaspluggable18:56
+MrHairgreaseanyway gotta go in a few minutes18:56
sanyockmay be,18:57
sanyockI previously tried FrontPage 2003 and latest Dreamviewer18:57
sanyockthey clean, but not all18:57
+MrHairgreasehmm. I'm not really into tag cleaning18:58
+MrHairgreaseI use vim and latex =)18:58
sanyockI found a few more tools but not tested yet:18:58
sanyockexample:18:58
sanyockhttp://weare.ru/cgi-bin/clearhtml.cgi18:58
+MrHairgreasebut you might find more info on the tinymce site18:58
sanyockI will18:58
+MrHairgreaseok gotta go18:58
+MrHairgreaselater guys18:59
sanyockThanks for info18:59
+MrHairgreasebye18:59
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+crythiashi22:08
+crythiasbtw22:08
+crythiasack22:08
+crythiaswhat a pita when you set up sendmail for the first time in like ever22:08
+crythiasand ack. sendmail config info is not in english. Well, ok, but it's not in "dummy language for gerald" english.22:36
+crythiasOn another note, Don't joke about people's experience with marijuana... they don't seem to have a sense of humor about the effect mj has on their minds.22:37
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nbcccorpwhen did marijuana start having an effect on your mind?22:43
+crythiasmy mind in specific or "one's mind"?22:45
nbcccorpwho are you?22:46
+crythiaswho am I?22:46
+crythiasAre you serious?22:46
nbcccorpmj = mem loss = joking22:46
* crythias is so confused.22:47
nbcccorpso sad. it seems your thc riddled braincells are having a tough time.22:47
+crythiasbut I don't smoke.22:47
nbcccorpah22:47
nbcccorpI've heard eating it is alot better. never tried. more power to you.22:47
+crythiasSomeone on a particular board was talking about how they have had the best experiences of their life while snmoking bud.22:48
+crythiasand I casually observed "Oh, you remember it? I thought..."22:48
+crythiasand so quickly got slammed.22:48
+crythiasah, well.22:48
+crythiasit's as if I argued religion with them.22:49
nbcccorpcan't believe you were so unfeeling. How could you intimate that their best experience in life might have been lost in a haze of thc?? Shame shame.23:02
nbcccorpso what's the current release date for wg 7.0? a.k.a The Great Hope.23:04
BaylinkI believe he said Aug 1?  Maybe Jul 1?  It was on the ML23:06
+crythiasthat'd be a mailing list changeover?23:10
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DforgeH_Hello04:51
DforgeH_I'04:52
DforgeH_am having trouble with a current 5.x install properly creating links. Instead of site.com/index.pl/foo it just does index.pl/foo04:52
DforgeH_Got it.04:56
DforgeH_thanks.04:56
DforgeH_damn, or not04:56
+crythiashi05:02
+crythiasI'm about the only non-bot here.05:02
+crythiasmore or less.05:02
+crythiasdforgeh_05:03
DforgeH_:) okay05:05
DforgeH_I'm working on the issue with maybe some whitespace in my config file, but I can't seem to find any.05:06
DforgeH_Hrm...05:07
DforgeH_Looks like it is happy again05:07
DforgeH_Odd.05:07
DforgeH_I wonder if my cache had to clear.05:07
nubaim guess i'm non-bot too05:10
nubanot sure tho05:10
+crythiasheh05:25
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xdanger_MrHairgrease: yo, I'm just wondering could the be a "create a sqlite3 database" function in sqlform ?19:55
+MrHairgreasesorry i don't understand19:55
xdanger_since sqlform uses database links, it would be nice to allow user to create a db. sqlite would be perfect for this... you could even version it through storage =)19:57
+MrHairgreaseoh i see19:57
+MrHairgreaseit only supports mysql19:57
+MrHairgreasebut you can always try it on sqllite of course19:57
xdanger_after that it could really replace DataForm completely19:57
xdanger_=)19:57
+MrHairgreaseit might work if you do not use the more obscure datatypes19:57
+MrHairgreasebut i dunno19:58
+MrHairgreaseit was made for mysql19:58
+MrHairgreasexdanger19:58
+MrHairgreaseare you comming to the wuc in vegas in september?19:59
xdanger_propably don't have enough money =(20:00
+MrHairgreasethat sucks20:01
xdanger_do you use something mysql specific ? do you need to use ?20:01
+MrHairgreaseI'd love to drink a beer with you20:01
+MrHairgreaseI probably did20:01
xdanger_since flyes from finland<->vegas could cost someting like 2000 euros...20:01
+MrHairgreasemysql has this ansi conformace fear going on20:02
+MrHairgreasethat much???20:02
+MrHairgreasewtf!20:02
xdanger_=)20:02
+MrHairgreaseI'm not sure what a return flight would be from olland to vegas.20:02
xdanger_I don't really now... I'll check...20:02
+MrHairgreaseBut not THAT much.20:02
+MrHairgreaseit's about 500 to 600 euros20:03
+MrHairgreaseJoeri says ebookers.com20:03
+MrHairgreasewe don't travel buisiness class of course =)20:03
xdanger_I'm in lapland on vacation with my parents... In a little cottage with only gprs connection, so it's slow to look anything up from the net =)20:04
+MrHairgreaseheh20:04
+MrHairgreaseprobably because of the north pole being close =)20:04
+MrHairgreasemy internet is pretty good, but then again... I'm not on vacation20:05
+MrHairgreaseI'm in the office20:06
xdanger_but I have to reserve many hundrets of dollars for beer and stuff ;)20:06
xdanger_If I go to vegas ;)20:06
+MrHairgreaseTrying to port the sqlform to 69920:06
+MrHairgreaseheh20:06
+MrHairgreasebeer isn't that expensive in vegas20:06
+MrHairgreasesometimes even cheaper than in holland20:06
+MrHairgreasenot very bad20:06
xdanger_We did a layout update on our "biggest" webgui site... and upgraded to 6.8.7 at the sametime..20:07
+MrHairgreaseok20:07
xdanger_http://luovapaja.fi see for your self...20:07
+MrHairgreasedid the upgrade work?20:07
xdanger_after many try's =)20:07
xdanger_tries..20:07
xdanger_There was missing StorageIds in the database, and stuff like that...20:08
+MrHairgreasethat sucks20:08
+MrHairgreasenice site20:08
+MrHairgreasetoo bad my finnish is not that good20:08
xdanger_=)20:08
xdanger_there is a english site comming this summer or so...20:09
+MrHairgreaseactually the only thing I can do with finnish is recognize that it is indeed finnish20:09
+MrHairgreaseok20:09
+MrHairgreaselet me know20:09
xdanger_that's a portal for creative people in central finland... (where I live)20:09
+MrHairgreaseok20:09
xdanger_It's a part of a EU-project20:09
+MrHairgreasei gotta go20:09
+MrHairgreasehave a nice hollidays20:10
+MrHairgreaseand see you later20:10
xdanger_ok, have fun ;)20:10
+MrHairgreasein vegas hopefully =)20:10
+MrHairgreaselater20:10
xdanger_Or i'll come to dutch sometimes =)20:10
+MrHairgreasethat's also cool20:10
+MrHairgreasewe'll find one way or antoher =)20:10
+MrHairgreasebye20:10
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fdillonanything alive out there or is eveyone a bot today?21:27
xdangernot a bot =)21:43
fdillonhave you heard of any vulnerablities in WG 6.7 what would allow someone to add themselves to a group?21:44
xdangerwasn't there some vulnerablities in 6.7... don't just remember what..21:49
xdanger6.8.6 fixed: fixed a serious security bug that would allow user account creation using a well crafted url when anonymous registration is set to off. (Thanks to Luke Bartholemy for the patch)21:58
fdillonright22:18
fdillonI can't remember what it was though22:18
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+MrHairgreaseFrank!18:00
+MrHairgreaseI have a question18:01
+MrHairgreaseIf I add content, log out and log in it has disappeared18:01
+MrHairgreaseI this because I do not run spectre?18:01
+MrHairgreasecalc spectre18:01
WREspectre = Supervisor of Perplexing Event-handling Contraptions for Triggering Relentless Executions18:01
fdillonMrHairgrease must be Martin =)18:21
fdillonTo be honest I haven't played with 7.0 all that much.  In fact I just got it up and running last week18:21
fdillonso I'm not sure18:21
+MrHairgreaseYeah me to18:22
+MrHairgreasetoo18:22
+MrHairgreasejust commited the sqlform18:23
fdillonHey Crythias, do you still have that freebie users guide online?19:22
+MrHairgreaseare you gonna sue? =)19:24
fdillonNo, I want to point someone to it19:31
fdillondo you know the link?19:31
+MrHairgreasemaybe19:33
+MrHairgreasewait please19:33
+MrHairgreasehttp://gwybsd.homeip.net/fomfiles/cache/1.html19:35
WRE<MrHairgrease> http://tinyurl.com/otn4z19:35
+MrHairgreaseI was just kidding about the sueing btw19:35
fdillonYeah I know =p19:36
+MrHairgreaselater19:41
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fdillonsigning off here too.19:46
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siriousjeola00:38
siriousjeand I really mean it, 7.0 will rule, but pls give me the tell-tale edge I need to push it to my clients01:04
siriousje'just because' isn't going to cut it01:04
siriousje(and just because I believe in it, doesn't do it either)01:07
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nbcccorpHey, does anyone know if individual posts to a forum have an assetId?17:25
wouter_procolixI think everything has an assetId.17:25
nbcccorpWhen I edit a post I don't see an ID. Any idea how I might find it?17:25
wouter_procolixProbably in the html source.17:26
wouter_procolixRight before the post somewhere should be a <a name="idxxxxxx"></a> tag.17:26
wouter_procolixwhere the xxxx is the assetId.17:26
wouter_procolixThis allows links like domain/page#idxxxxx directly to the article.17:26
wouter_procolixfor example: http://www.plainblack.com/etcetera/sql-lookup-for-group-membership-fails#rf7SXYil5EaI2n-4fmokZA17:27
WRE<wouter_procolix> http://tinyurl.com/s9eno17:27
nbcccorpgot it. thx.17:27
wouter_procolixokay :-)17:28
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phobia!seen snapcount05:56
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Radi1Hiyas11:16
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christian-MarcHoi Robbert16:33
christian-Marcik was aan het wachten tot je op de e-mail zou reageren16:33
christian-Marcik was een beetje laat met e-mailen16:34
Trebbor123Aha, geen probleem16:35
Trebbor123Ik had ook beter even eerder kunnen reageren.16:35
Trebbor123:)16:35
christian-MarcBart zit naast mee, maar zal straks aansluiten16:36
Trebbor123Ok16:36
christian-Marcwat doe jij met webgui?16:36
christian-Marcen hoelang werk je hier al mee16:37
Trebbor123We gebruiken Webgui hoofdzakelijk voor intern gebruik16:37
Trebbor123Ik werk bij een bedrijf met een stuk of 15 websites, die staan inmiddels allemaal in webgui16:38
christian-Marcdat zijn er best veel16:38
christian-Marcallemaal zelf opgezet>16:38
christian-Marc>16:38
christian-Marc?16:38
Trebbor123Ik doe dit samen met een collega. Ik doe alles in/met Webgui, mijn collega is programmeur en zorgt voor xml-imput16:39
christian-Marcjij geeft ook interne trainingen?16:39
Trebbor123en mensen intern bij verschillende dochterondernemingen zijn dan weer verantwoordelijk voor de content16:39
Trebbor123Ja, dat probeer ik. :)16:40
christian-Marcheb je al iets dat je wilt delen?16:40
Trebbor123Nee, ik heb geen concrete documentatie. We zijn pas recent overgegaan op de laatste versie. We zaten nog op 6.2.916:41
christian-Marcheb je ideeen hoe je deze wilt gaan maken?16:42
Trebbor123Nou, wat ik nu eigenlijk het belangrijkste vind is de hover-help, de vertaling van de assets en de help index.16:42
Trebbor123Zijn jullie daar al mee bezig geweest voor 6.8?16:43
christian-Marcnee, er is nog niks vertaald16:43
Trebbor123Ah, ok.16:43
christian-Marcwat we wel hebben voorbereidt is een vertaal tooltje16:44
Trebbor123Maar de help van de pre-asset versie is natuurlijk wel voor een groot deel herbruikbaar16:44
christian-Marcuiteraard16:44
Trebbor123Wat is het idee van het tooltje?16:45
christian-Marcdit is een online lijst van alle begrippen binnen webgui, de meest recente binnen subversion16:46
christian-Marchet adres is: http://80.69.75.111/16:46
christian-Marcmet login id: vertaal en password: speelfout16:47
christian-Marcik krijg net een e-mail binnen dat een vierde persoon wil helpen met vertalingen16:48
Trebbor123Ah, das mooi.16:48
Trebbor123De tool ziet er al handig uit. Dus eigenlijk is het dan een kwestie van beginnen met vertalen?16:49
christian-Marcinderdaad16:49
Trebbor123Wat is het verschil tussen de rode en witte regels?16:49
christian-Marcik geloof dat de rode regels in versie 7.0 vervallen16:49
christian-Marcdeze hebben een tag old version16:50
Trebbor123Maar ik begrijp dat jullie ook een handleiding willen schrijven vor WebGUI?16:50
christian-Marcdat klopt16:50
christian-Marcik heb een handleiding geschreven in openoffice16:50
christian-Marcvoor content managers16:50
Trebbor123Ja, dat is ook het gedeelte waar ik het meest aan zou hebben.16:51
christian-Marcheb je mijn agenda gelezen?16:53
Trebbor123Yep.16:53
christian-Marczou je deze willen doorlopen?16:53
Trebbor123Dat is goed16:54
christian-Marcbart is even aangeschoven16:54
christian-Marcen leest met mij mee16:54
christian-Marchij heeft nog geen eigen irc-account16:55
Trebbor123Ok16:55
christian-Marcik stel voor om de handleidingen te gaan schrijven in latex16:55
christian-Marcik bedenk me net dat ik als eerste moet vragen of de agenda compleet is? is de agenda compleet16:56
Trebbor123Wat mij betreft wel. Heb je nog iets van Arjan gehoord?16:56
christian-Marcwat bedoel je?16:57
Trebbor123Of die zou komen?16:57
christian-Marcnee, hij stuurt ons bij van de achtergrond16:57
christian-Marczal niet direct participeren16:57
Trebbor123O.k.16:58
christian-MarcArjan wil wel graag weten wat de structuur wordt van de verschillende handleidingen16:59
Trebbor123Wat is voor jullie belangrijker, de online documentatie c.q. vertaling van WebGUI of een handleiding over hoe te werken met WebGUI?17:00
christian-Marceigenlijk beide17:02
christian-Marcwij hadden documantatie nodig voor een training en die heb ik geschreven17:03
Trebbor123Aha, ik zit het meest te wachten op de vertaling van de Assets.17:03
christian-Marcoke17:03
Trebbor123Is het een idee om ons eerst hierop te concentreren en binnen een aantal week dit met behulp van jullie tool dit met zoveel mogelijk mensen te vertalen?17:03
christian-Marcgoed idee17:04
christian-Marcdit moet toch eerst gebeuren omdat deze berippen binnen de handleidingen gebruikt worden17:04
Trebbor123Ja, inderdaad.17:04
Trebbor123Hoeveel mensen zijn hiertoe bereid, zover bekend?17:04
christian-Marcik kreeg net nog een naam binnen Hans van Zeist17:05
christian-Marchij wil helpen met vertalen17:05
christian-Marcik stel voor om de vertalingen in ons tooltje te gaan doen17:06
Trebbor123En verder? Len, jij, bart, Arjan?17:06
Trebbor123Ja, lijkt me ook een goed idee.17:06
Trebbor123Ieder een bepaald deel, en misschien afspreken dat ieder ook even het deel van iemand anders naloopt op eventuele foutjes/verbeteringen.17:07
christian-Marcnamen zijn: Bart Jol, Bart Coninckx, Hans van Zeist, jij en ik17:07
christian-Marcdus vijf personene17:08
Trebbor123Ah, twee bart-en. :)17:08
Trebbor123En Len Kranendonk zouden we ook nog kunnen vragen.17:08
Trebbor123Ik heb in eerste instantie met hem contact gezocht en het leek hem ook een goed idee.17:08
christian-Marczeker, ik zal een mailtje sturen17:10
christian-Marcals we straks klaar zijn zal ik naar iedereen een mailtje sturen17:12
Trebbor123Okee.17:13
Trebbor123Ik moet er nu helaas vandaar, er wordt op mij gewacht.17:13
Trebbor123Wellicht kunnen we per e-mail met alle belangstellenden het hebben over de verdeling van het vertalen en dan vervolgens enthousiast beginnen te vertalen?17:14
Trebbor123Of zijn er nog dingen die eerst besproken moeten worden?17:14
christian-Marcheb je ervaring met latex?17:15
Trebbor123Nee, heb er zelfs nog nooit van gehoord.17:15
christian-Marcoke, hierin wil ik de handleidingen gaan schrijven17:15
Trebbor123Klinkt ook als een linux iets, ik ben maar een simpele Windows gebruiker17:15
christian-Marcnee, niks met linux te maken, maar dat komt nog wel17:15
Trebbor123Yep, das goed.17:16
christian-Marcheb je een account op webgui.nl17:16
christian-Marc?17:16
Trebbor123Ja, geloof het wel. :)17:16
christian-Marcwe gaan daar een thuisbasis van het vertaal project maken, met forum en download plaats17:16
Trebbor123Ah, lijkt me een goed idee.17:16
christian-Marchet adres stuur ik je nog17:16
Trebbor123Maar ik moet nu echt gaan.17:17
Trebbor123verder contact eerst per email?17:17
christian-Marczeker17:17
Trebbor123Oke.17:17
Trebbor123Sorry voor de onderbreking, we spreken elkaar nog.17:17
christian-Marcbedankt voor de chat, wil je dit vaker op een bepaald tijdstip doen17:17
Trebbor123Prettig weekend alvast!17:17
Trebbor123Ja hoor, geen probleem.17:17
christian-Marcmail dit ook nog, later!!17:17
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lenthamenhello00:46
+perlDreamerhey, len00:46
lenthamenhey colin.00:47
+perlDreamerhow are things over there?00:48
lenthamenI'm trying to make a static dump of a webgui site. The problem I'm experiencing is that I have /page and page/sub. In that case I get both a file "page" and a directory "page" which isn't possible....00:48
+perlDreamerhtml dump or database dump?00:49
lenthamenAll is going well !00:49
lenthamenhtml dump00:49
lenthamenusing wget.00:49
+perlDreamerfor the purpose of the dump can you add a suffix to the pages in wget using the settings?00:49
lenthamenyeah that would fix it, the problem is that URLExtension only works for new pages afaik.00:50
+perlDreamerprobably00:50
lenthamenI'll going to add .html to <tmpl_var page.url> in the navigation and use mod_rewrite to remove it....00:51
+perlDreamerhave you looked at --no-directories in wget?00:52
+perlDreameror --html-extension?00:52
+perlDreamer--html-extension will automatically add .html to your pages on download00:53
lenthamenI've tried --nd with no luck... Will have a look at --html-extension !00:54
lenthamenwget -p -r --html-extension -k http://the.webgui.site00:59
lenthamenthat did it !00:59
lenthamenThanks Colin !00:59
+perlDreamerno problem, len01:01
+perlDreamermanpages rock :)01:01
lenthamenWe might document this somewhere... It works really nice. All page requisites are also downloaded (-p) and links are converted (-k) so the pages are suitable for local viewing.01:11
+perlDreamerWell, we could either do it on the dicussion boards, or on the online docs01:11
lenthamenI'll post it on the discussion board..01:12
+perlDreamerI'll stick it in the online docs, too.  Maybe if we start to add things like that to it people will find them more useful.01:25
lenthamenhttp://www.plainblack.com/etcetera/howto-export-complete-webgui-site01:26
WRE<lenthamen> http://tinyurl.com/peos701:26
lenthamenthis works much better than the build-in export function or the generateContent.pl script, because wget is taking care of all the hard things (url rewriting / image downloading).01:27
+perlDreameryeah, images, javascript, css and everything01:28
+perlDreamerI had an idea for little Wobject.  I call it the Scheduler.01:30
+perlDreamerEach wobject would be able to have a bunch of configurable time slots (time, location, number of people)01:30
+perlDreamerthe wobject then gives regular users the ability to sign up for empty, unused slots01:30
+perlDreamerand generate a report of who is coming when01:30
lenthamenok, that sounds cool. Can't multiple users sign up for the same time slot ?01:32
+perlDreameronly if the slot will take multiple people01:32
lenthamenok.01:32
+perlDreamerIt would be good for scheduling office hours and appointments and stuff like that.01:33
lenthamenyeah that's handy for conferences or meeting room reservation or even the "borrow my dvd collection" :)01:34
+perlDreamerwell, for conferences there's the new EventManagementSystem.  I need something like it but much, much simpler01:34
lenthamenI'm thinking about adding an "upload image" function to the "insert image" dialog in tinymce.01:35
+perlDreamerI think Wouter may have just done that in 6.9901:35
lenthamenah ok, good that you mention that.01:35
+perlDreamerI'd check the dev list archive just in case I'm wrong01:36
lenthamenI'll mail him.01:36
lenthamenColin are you planning on coming to the WUC ?01:38
+perlDreameryeah01:38
+perlDreamerI'm talking on day 1 about writing WebGUI tests01:38
lenthamenok that's cool.01:38
lenthamenCan't be there :(01:38
+perlDreamerit's a long way from Europe to Vegas01:38
+perlDreamerdo you have a schedule conflict?01:39
lenthamenWe're expecting an addition to the family around that time.01:39
lenthamenSo yeah, a schedule conflict :D01:39
+perlDreamerCongratulations!01:39
lenthamentnx!01:40
+perlDreamerYour first?01:40
lenthamenno, 2nd. We already have a 3 year old daughter.01:41
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christian-Marcdaar is ik weer13:06
bartjoljeee13:06
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xdangeryo13:40
+MrHairgreaseyo13:58
xdangerMrHairgrease: did you take a look at my post on the dev-list ?14:31
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xdangerchansen_: or you ?14:31
+MrHairgreaseyes14:34
+MrHairgreasestreaming files is slow though14:34
+MrHairgreaseand will tie up your modperl process14:34
+MrHairgreaseadding a caching proxy can indeed solve taht14:34
+MrHairgreasei guess anyway14:34
xdangerthe session is all ready opened for the uploads directory for checking rights... so currenlty request to /some/file.pdf opens a full wg request which redirects it to uploads which opens a wg session14:54
xdangerthats to request, an both served throug mod_perl14:54
+MrHairgreaseyeah14:56
+MrHairgreasebut if you serve the file the teh url of the asset14:56
+MrHairgreasethat means webgui will have to stream the thing14:56
+MrHairgreasewhich is slower than having apache spitting it out14:57
+MrHairgreaseand slower means that your precious mp process will be tie up longer14:57
+MrHairgreasewhich means a performance hit14:57
xdangerdoesn't that reqest object handle the whole apache prosess... So that if you rewrite the request internally, it's not webgui that's serving the file but apache directly ?14:58
+MrHairgreaseafaik you still use the same mod_perl process14:59
+MrHairgreaseand the shorter that is used the better it is14:59
+MrHairgreaseand14:59
+MrHairgreasein that case you can also have a seperate collateral server14:59
+MrHairgreasethat only serves stuff from the upoads dir15:00
+MrHairgreasetherfore relieving the actual content server15:00
xdangerwe'll thats why I thinkt that this should only be an option if someone wan't to use it =)15:02
+MrHairgreasemaking it optional is ok imho15:02
xdangeryou can allways have a ^FileUrl(); around the file, so it is served directly from the uploads folder..15:02
+MrHairgreaseI wasn't saying it was a bad idea btw15:02
xdangerbut the problem was that a client of mine had a pdf with wrong information popping up in google..15:03
+MrHairgreaseb/c of versioning?15:03
xdangersince there isn't a fixed url for storage..15:03
xdangerit changes with addrevision15:03
+MrHairgreaseyeah i know15:04
xdangerIt could be better to have the "current" revision to allways have the same url ? and the "old"/"not published yet" versions to have something else ?15:05
xdangerso that there would be a storageId in the asset table in addition to assetData table15:05
xdangerjust a thought15:05
+MrHairgreasetaht might work15:06
+MrHairgreasebut then you are changing versioned data15:06
+MrHairgreasewhich should be a nono15:06
+MrHairgreaseit is versioned (and therfore static) after alll15:06
+MrHairgreaseyou stumbled on an interseting bug15:06
+MrHairgreaseand I'm curious what jt will say about it15:07
xdangeryou could have a storage location for each revision, that would remain intact, and a separete "master" storagelocation that would be updated depending on the published revision15:09
+MrHairgreaseyeah I know what you mean15:09
+MrHairgreasebut it is still changing the versioned data15:09
+MrHairgreasestoragelocation == data15:09
+MrHairgreasepersonally i wouldn't care about that15:09
+MrHairgreasebut jt might15:09
+MrHairgreaseI'm not sure if it can cause trouble15:10
+MrHairgreaseI'm not that die hard in the versioning system yet15:10
xdangershould I reply to my own post about a different implemention =D15:10
+MrHairgreasewhy not15:11
xdangerI really thinkt that versionin is a good thing, but that webgui's way of versioning isn't the best way to go...15:11
chansen_xdanger: I recommend using a reverse proxy (separate instance of httpd, with threaded MPM) or even better lighttpd15:11
xdangerchansen_: I remember...15:11
xdangerI'm with you on the lighttpd opinion..15:11
xdangerMight do that with our hosting15:12
chansen_it's perfect for serving static files15:12
xdangerit quite... "light" ;)15:12
chansen_single threaded, uses kernel event notifications15:12
xdangerbut yet quite powerful15:12
* MrHairgrease continues hacking graph labels15:13
xdangerthe only reason people use apache is becouse everybody uses apache...15:13
chansen_well, there is not much that kicks apaches API and modularity15:14
chansen_pick right tool for the job ;)15:14
+MrHairgreasethat's true15:15
xdangerwe'll thats true15:15
xdangerI just think that apache as a reverse proxy is a little overhead15:16
+MrHairgreaseI always use a sledgehammer to put screws in stuff15:16
+MrHairgreaserel fast15:16
+MrHairgreasemaybe15:16
xdangerbut have to say that I love mod_rewrite ;)15:16
+MrHairgreasebut harware is cheap15:16
xdangerMrHairgrease: server hardware isn't ;)15:16
+MrHairgreasethere's always the tradeoff between hardware cost and timeinvestment cost15:17
chansen_xdanger: you will gain from a reverse proxy, especially with slow clients15:17
+MrHairgreasewell in a lot of cases it is cheap enough15:17
+MrHairgreasebut I'm not the expert in that area15:17
+MrHairgreaseKoen is15:17
+MrHairgreasethat's true15:17
+MrHairgreaseb/c it releases the m_p process earlier right?15:18
xdangerchansen_: I know... I'm not saying that you shouldn't use a proxy... I think it's a must with webgui...15:18
chansen_MrHairgrease: right and it's also possible to buffer the whole request before sending it to app server15:19
xdangerI just hate ugly urls, and people se thous urls after the redirect... so they could bookmark to that url with storageId, and when they update that pdf, and say to their people to load the new version, they'll push that bookmark direclty to the old version...15:20
chansen_in fast and out fast and you have happy children ;)15:20
xdangerI'm quite more of a typo-guy today than usual...15:20
chansen_which direct status code do you/webgui use?15:21
xdanger302 ?15:21
xdangernot sure15:21
+MrHairgreasei guess 30215:22
chansen_use 307 with explicit cache-control headers15:22
chansen_fixes your problems :)15:22
xdanger$self->setStatus("302", "Redirect");15:23
xdangerwhat's the difference ?15:23
xdanger302 - Found 15:24
xdangerThe requested resource has been found under a different URI but the client should continue to use the original URI. 15:24
xdanger307 - Temporary Redirect 15:24
xdangerThe resource has temporarily been moved to a different URI. The client should use the original URI to access the resource in future as the URI may change.15:24
xdangeragain, what's the diffence ?-)15:24
+MrHairgreasein a 302 the ua will cache the redirect url i guess15:25
+MrHairgreasein a 307 it won't15:26
+MrHairgreasesince the redirect is in a state of flux15:26
+MrHairgreaseright?15:26
xdangerOh... That would be better, me thinks =)15:26
chansen_most browsers respect 307 and ignores 302 because of it's more or less misuse15:26
xdangerdefine "most browsers" ;)15:27
+MrHairgreasebut in case of xdanger it's the googlebot that is important15:27
chansen_but send proper cache-headers15:27
xdangerMrHairgrease: also the bookmarking case15:27
+MrHairgreaseyeah15:27
+MrHairgreasethat too15:27
+MrHairgreaseindeed15:27
xdangerso google and the end user should only see a url that allways goes to the newest version..15:28
chansen_ /location/resource/head -> 307 -> /location/resource/version/1.115:29
chansen_ /location/resource/version/1.1 should be cacheable15:29
chansen_but not /location/resource/head15:30
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nbcccorpIs there a way to send a test email from WG? I just want to test the email setup and wondered if there is an easy way.15:47
xdangerdataform ?-)15:47
+MrHairgreasecreate a collab system15:47
+MrHairgreaseah yeah15:47
+MrHairgreasedataform is easier15:47
+MrHairgreasetyep your email address into the to field when you create one15:48
+MrHairgreaseand submit a form15:48
nbcccorpok.15:48
nbcccorpHow does it work? Is it just doing it's own perl based smtp session to the mta you specify?15:49
xdangeruses webguis mailing function15:50
nbcccorpok. thx.15:50
xdangerwhich can be configured to use different methods, iirc15:50
+MrHairgreasedepends on which version of wg you run15:51
nbcccorpiirc?15:51
xdangerif I recall correctly15:51
nbcccorp6.7.8 on wre15:51
+MrHairgreasein <6.99 it uses some perl module to talk directly to the mailserver15:52
+MrHairgreasein 6.99 mailing is scheduled throug spectre15:52
+MrHairgreasemake sure the mailserver address in the settings menu is correct15:52
nbcccorpwhat is spectre?15:52
+MrHairgreaselocalhost will suffice on most setups15:52
+MrHairgreasecalc spectre15:52
+MrHairgreaseoh wre is down15:53
+MrHairgreasespectre is the new runHourly15:53
+MrHairgreaseis handles workflow and all other stuff that somehow needs to be executed from outside15:53
+MrHairgreasespectre = Supervisor of Perplexing Event-handling Contraptions for Triggering Relentless Executions15:54
nbcccorpis that a pb thing or another os project which is included?15:54
+MrHairgreaseit is include with webgui15:55
+MrHairgreasewg won't work without it15:55
nbcccorpok. thx.15:55
+MrHairgreasebut it is easy to setup15:55
+MrHairgreaseso don't worry =)15:55
xdangeror it uses sendmail binary, I think..15:55
xdangerthat's to common way15:55
nbcccorpno worries. I'm using wre so I'm sure JT will look out for me.15:56
+MrHairgreaseok15:58
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+MrHairgreasejt17:16
+MrHairgreasehow long will there be a code freeze17:16
+MrHairgreaseon estimate of course17:17
@rizenfeature freeze17:17
@rizena very long time17:17
@rizenat least by our standards17:17
@rizenit will be several months17:18
+MrHairgreaseso like three month or so17:18
@rizeni'd say at least that17:18
+MrHairgreaseok17:18
@rizenwe'll have two months of just beta and release candidates17:18
@rizenand i'll probably keep the freeze in effect for at least a month after that17:18
@rizenbefore i branch the repo17:18
@rizeni want to make sure that we're ultra stable17:19
@rizenbefore we branch to begin new work17:19
+MrHairgreaseI'm trying to get the graphing stuff finished in time17:19
+MrHairgreasebut I'm not sure I'm gonna make it17:19
@rizenwhat do you have left?17:19
+MrHairgreaseright now I'm cleaning up the code17:20
+MrHairgreaseand create some sort of consistent api =)17:20
@rizenhehe17:20
+MrHairgreaseI'll need these things in addition17:20
+MrHairgreasesome kind of palette manager17:20
@rizendon't worry about having every graph under the sun done17:20
@rizen but you do need to have whatever api you're going to use solidified17:20
+MrHairgreaseI'll have pies 2 and 3d17:21
@rizenbecause after 7.0.017:21
+MrHairgreaselines 2d17:21
@rizenthe api must remain backward compatible17:21
+MrHairgreaseand bars 2d (sacked and next to eachother17:21
+MrHairgreasestacked*17:21
+MrHairgreaseI hope to have a working system ready by somewhere tomorrow17:21
+MrHairgreaseI'll send it to you for approval17:22
@rizencool17:22
@rizenone favor i have to ask for17:22
+MrHairgreasego ahead17:22
@rizenmake your graphing system use #ffffff hex codes for colors17:22
@rizenlike the rest of the web does17:22
+MrHairgreaseof course17:22
+MrHairgreasequestion17:22
@rizeneven if behind the scenes you translate into rgb or whwever17:23
@rizenwhatever17:23
+MrHairgreasehow to handle alpha channels17:23
+MrHairgreaseim does it by adding a hex pair17:23
+MrHairgreaseso #333333aa17:23
+MrHairgreasefor instance17:23
@rizenwhere aa is the thing to become transparent?17:23
+MrHairgreaseyeah17:23
+MrHairgreasethe transparanetness of it17:24
+MrHairgrease00 is solid17:24
+MrHairgreaseff is invisible17:24
@rizeni think that will be confusing to users17:24
+MrHairgreasemaybe17:24
@rizenwe're probably better off if we create a slider control17:24
+MrHairgreasebut it is a very important aspect of the coolness of graphs17:24
@rizenlet them set a color17:24
+MrHairgreasesure17:25
@rizenoh yeah, i agree17:25
+MrHairgreaseif you have a cool javascript thingy17:25
@rizenbehind the scenes i don't care what happens17:25
@rizeni'm just saying that i think that the api should keep the two seperate17:25
@rizenso we can easily use two seperate form controls17:25
@rizenfor users17:25
+MrHairgreaseok17:25
@rizenone that's a color picker17:25
@rizenand one for alpha blending17:25
+MrHairgreasei'll try to construct something17:26
+MrHairgreasethat's cool with me17:26
@rizencool17:26
@rizenconstructing a slider is very easy to do17:26
@rizeni can handle that17:26
@rizenor better yet, i'll probably just steal one from somewhere17:26
+MrHairgreasea palette color consists of a color value (#xxxxxx) and a alphavalue (#xx)17:26
+MrHairgreaseyou should steal17:26
+MrHairgreasethere are too many reinvented wheels already17:27
+MrHairgrease=)17:27
@rizenand #xx is hex also, right?17:27
@rizen0-f?17:27
+MrHairgrease#00-#ff17:28
+MrHairgrease256 values17:28
+MrHairgreaseBut there must already be something that handles that17:28
+MrHairgreaseI just didn't have time to look for it17:29
+MrHairgreaseanyway I should continue17:29
@rizenk bye17:29
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+MrHairgreaseOr else there will never be an api17:29
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+crythiasI can't believe it's not butter.21:22
xdanger=D21:27
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@snapcountI'm back!18:17
@snapcountbut not really right now18:18
@snapcounthave to go take finals18:18
@snapcounterr a lab practical18:18
@snapcountfinals are next week =)18:18
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nbcccorpdoes anyone happen to know how wg survey wobjects make the decision to start a new response or pick up the last one?23:24
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Nickola!seen snapcount04:18
Nickolaoops....no bot.04:18
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meshellhi06:11
+crythia1hi06:35
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wouter_procolixHi all, anybody listening/reading?16:43
wouter_procolixI'm trying to fix some of the bugs in the Events Calendar...16:43
wouter_procolixbut I'm wondering how it's supposed to work anyway.16:43
wouter_procolixSomeone with experience on that topic?16:43
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+crythiashowdy22:59
fdillonhey22:59
+crythiasI miss Matthew.23:00
+crythiasI haven't talked to him in weeks.23:00
+crythiasthen again, I haven't seen Roy around for ages, either.23:00
fdillonboth have been extremely busy23:01
fdillonwith client project and WebGUI 7 coming out23:01
+crythiasI imagine.23:01
fdillonhopefully things will slow down here and we'll all get a chance to catch our breath23:01
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@snapcountI'm alive23:11
@snapcountbarely23:11
@snapcount=P23:11
xdanger=)23:11
@snapcountI like the channel topic23:11
xdangerthis is nice, I have a athlon x2 4200 with 2Gigs of memory with dual 19" tft, and my old faithfull ibook hooked together woth synergy =)23:12
xdangers/woth/with/23:13
xdangerso its three displays (one with max os x) and one mouse/keyboard =P23:13
xdangerIt's worknight =/23:13
xdangerdesided to upgrade the rest of our webguis to 6.8.23:14
xdangeronly problem is the damn .wgaccess files...23:15
xdangerI'll just do a "find . -name ".wgaccess" -exec rm {} \;" =)23:17
xdangerbtw. Is this fixed in 6.99 ?23:18
xdangerI mean .wgaccess not updating when changing permissions ?23:18
--- Day changed Fri Apr 28 2006
@snapcountI'm not sure00:06
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nbcccorpHello? Anyone out there willing to give me a hand with a wg6.8.5 > 6.8.8 issue?06:08
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xdangeryey! upgrade to 6.8.8 complete =P08:45
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-!- pbmdawg changed the topic of #WebGUI to: WebGUI 7.0 is 100x faster than 6.x15:38
+crythiasMatt!15:50
+crythias2LNG2CU15:50
@pbmdawgtoo lung to coo?15:50
+crythiasheh15:50
+crythias2 lungs to cough up?15:51
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WoefdramMogge17:07
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WoefdramAnybody awake? :)17:09
christian-Marchello17:09
WoefdramIt's Hans, Syncera.17:09
christian-Marchoi17:10
christian-Marcik heb een eigen chat channel aangemaakt17:10
WoefdramAh.17:10
WoefdramEn waar vind ik dat?17:10
christian-Marcje kunt dit joinen door het volgende in te typen: /join #webgui.nl17:10
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christian-Marcare you Young from united knowledge17:17
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christian-Marchoi robbert17:18
robbertHallo17:18
christian-Marcik heb een eigen channel aangemaakt, typ in /join #webgui.nl17:19
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@pbmdawghi17:37
christian-Marchello17:39
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+crythiashrm18:38
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@pbmdawghrm?18:44
+crythiasyeah hrm18:44
+crythiashttp://oss.oetiker.ch/rrdtool/index.en.html18:44
@pbmdawgcrythias; I need some apache help19:36
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+perlDreamerlooking for an opinion on i18n.  Is anyone around?20:51
xdangerI could21:01
+perlDreamerI've already decided to do it, but this will be a nice double check21:01
+perlDreamerthe style editor allows for the upload of a logo21:01
+perlDreamerand after upload, wG assigns it a title, menuTitle, etc21:02
+perlDreamerlike this:21:02
+perlDreamertitle=>join(' ', $form->get("heading"), $i18n->get('logo')),21:02
+perlDreamerused to be title=>$form->get("heading"). " Logo",21:02
+perlDreamerI was wondering if it made sense to internationalize the Logo part of that21:02
xdangerer... just that i18n isn't so musch per site as it is per installation...21:04
xdangerand users don't have the ability to edit them..21:04
+perlDreamersure, but it still grabs the user's preferences21:04
+perlDreamerhuh?21:04
+perlDreamerI can't choose my language?21:04
xdangerYour meaning that you wan't to have different logos for different languages...21:05
+perlDreamerno21:05
+perlDreamerbut if you (you yourself) created a style and uploaded an image and you used,say, Portugeuse for your native language, wouldn't you want the logo's title to be in Portuguese as well?21:06
xdangerI was just wonderint the function what you are trying to acomplish with that21:06
+perlDreamerI see21:06
xdangerof course, but I'm still donšt understand what the uploaded image and i18n has to do with each other =)21:07
+perlDreamerthe name for the logo is pulled from the name for the website, $form->get("heading")21:08
+perlDreamerthat is a field where a user can enter in text in any language21:08
+perlDreamerso it didn't make sense to me to have a localized name for a logo followed by the English word "Logo".21:09
xdangerok21:09
xdangerI've been awake too much, so please give me some slack ;)21:10
+perlDreamerno problem21:10
+perlDreamerI'm not doing a good job of explaining either21:10
xdangermaybe I just should look at some code and I propably would get it, but human-to-human communication isn't my strong point now ;)21:11
xdangerspend last night up upgrading sites/custom code to 6.8.7 and then 6.8.821:12
xdangerfrom 6.7.721:12
+perlDreamerwas it easy?21:12
xdangerJust have to say that 6.8 is loads of faster...21:12
+perlDreamerThe 6.9 conversion isn't trivial21:12
+perlDreamerthe session changes reach almost everywhere21:13
xdangerMy client called me and said that "What did you do? the site is fucking fast" - "We'll I've upgraded it and noticed that you had disabled your cache ;)"21:14
+perlDreamerah, users21:14
xdangerI have some of stuff "backported" drom 6.9, or should I say that 6.9 has my pagination and navigation tweaks in it ;)21:15
xdangerand I've done some little alterations where they suit me... like sorting storage.pm:s filelist, and returnign undef if storages getContentAsRef fails...21:16
xdangerand I have my own forked version on CS calles xCollaboration (xPost and xThread) where I've added more dynamic listing of threads and categories21:17
+perlDreamerthat seems like a lot of code to maintain21:17
xdangeryep21:18
xdangerthe xCS in particular21:18
xdangerIf you take a look at this: http://luovapaja.fi/taitajat?21:18
xdangeron the left there is Kategoriat... thats categorys for you... user managed listing of creative people21:19
xdangeronly if there would have been Matrix asset when I did that21:19
xdangerthe first one is list all21:19
+perlDreamerwhat language is this?21:19
xdangerFinnish21:19
+crythiaspbmdawg: what?21:20
xdangerone problem that I'm havin is that in utf8 š is a and a umlaut sign, so when I list a* it also list š*21:20
+perlDreamercrythias: ww21:20
+crythiaswii!21:21
@pbmdawgcrythias: not ww21:21
xdangerWii, the new nintendo console =)21:21
+crythiasthe What Is It21:21
xdangerI should be going to sauna and then preparing to the rock consert...21:22
+perlDreamersounds like more fun than i18n'ing wG 6.9921:22
+perlDreamer:)21:22
xdangerI think that Wii is better thatn ViiV (or how is it spelled)21:22
xdangerjeah, but my back hurts and I'm tired...21:23
xdangerbut it's a very good band from sweden =)21:23
xdangerI think tomorrow I should commit my little changes to snv, If 1st of may is feature freeze21:24
xdangerIn finland like everybody is drunk on 30th ;)21:24
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--- Day changed Sun Apr 30 2006
-!- Irssi: #webgui: Total of 3 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 3 normal]15:45
xdangerchansen: you hapen to be online ?15:45
xdanger            my $subr = $r->lookup_file($filename,);15:46
xdangercouses [Sun Apr 30 15:44:45 2006] [notice] child pid 28049 exit signal Segmentation fault (11)15:47
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+perlDreamerxdanger: are you awake?19:23
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