WebGUI irc logs from: 2006-03.log

--- Log opened Wed Mar 01 00:00:17 2006
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crythiaswould you try something for me?19:26
crythiasdo you have a browser that you can use the links toolbar for?19:26
MrHairgreaseI don't even know what the links took bar is19:27
MrHairgreaseI only have ff 1.0.2 available right now19:27
crythiasok. np. Actually, I gotta go to lunch.19:27
MrHairgreasebon apetit19:27
crythiascheck this out: http://www.gwy2.org/sbs/sbs.html?url=http://www.plainblack.com/discuss19:27
@WRE<crythias> http://tinyurl.com/jp65p19:27
MrHairgreasewhat is it good for?19:29
crythiastech support19:29
MrHairgreaseI can see its usefulness for that indeed19:29
crythiasI have a button that automatically adds google search to any page.19:29
MrHairgreasehow does it do that19:30
crythiasso, you just click the button for the page you're on, and you get full google search19:30
crythiasand frames19:30
MrHairgreasesubmit it19:30
crythiasI based it upon something like www.gahooyoogle.com19:30
crythiasI've always wanted an easy way to split a current page/screen19:31
crythiasand browser wasn't cutting it for me.19:31
MrHairgreasefirst useful use of frames i'v ever seen19:31
crythiasyou're using firefox, right?19:31
crythiasyou have the "Recent Headlines" bar, right?19:32
MrHairgreasecould be19:32
crythiasunless you've customized it.19:32
MrHairgreasenever looked into the 'advanced' features19:32
MrHairgreaseIf I can browse it ok19:32
crythias"links" bar is just a list of one-click things, where the rss feeds go.19:32
MrHairgreaseoh and I use the webdevelopers toolbar19:33
MrHairgreaseOh ok19:33
MrHairgreaseI never use rss feeds19:33
crythias!seen pbmdawg21:32
@WREpbmdawg (n=SysAdmin@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com) was last seen parting #WebGUI 16 hours, 38 minutes ago stating "{}".21:32
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-!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by WRE23:09
@snapcountso I installed base and snort on my gateway machine last night23:27
@snapcountthe internet is a dangerous place23:27
@snapcountespecially if you have MS-SQL23:27
@snapcountI've had like 90 attempts by some MS-SQL worm23:28
crythiaspeople  behind webgui? where?23:47
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--- Day changed Thu Mar 02 2006
-!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-69-139-51-253.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui00:44
@snapcountis a toy with string00:44
-!- terje [n=joem@vampira.scare.org] has joined #webgui00:44
terjeI'm having some trouble getting webgui going.00:45
@snapcounthi there00:45
terjeI think perhaps there's some problems w/ the sourc.e00:45
@snapcountooh boy00:45
@snapcountwhat kind of problems00:45
crythiasnah. nothing wrong with webgui *stares at ceiling.* must be user error. :-P00:45
terjeI got the sarcasam00:47
terjesarcasm, even.00:47
terjeok, here goes.00:47
terje[webgui@helo lib]$ perl -c WebGUI.pm00:47
terjeVariable "$parenthesis" is not imported at (re_eval 12) line 2.00:47
terjeGlobal symbol "$parenthesis" requires explicit package name at (re_eval 12) line 2.00:47
terjeCompilation failed in regexp at WebGUI/Macro.pm line 53.00:47
terjeCompilation failed in require at WebGUI.pm line 22.00:47
terjeBEGIN failed--compilation aborted at WebGUI.pm line 22.00:47
crythiasbecause you're using 5.5.800:47
crythiaschange our to my00:47
terjeis that all?00:47
crythiascould be.00:47
@snapcountnever met someone actually using 500:47
@snapcountthat's kind of cool00:48
crythiasI've only answered this question 3 times in the past week00:48
terjeThis is perl, v5.8.6 built for i386-linux-thread-multi00:48
@snapcountguess I should pay more attention00:48
crythiasno. you wouldn't have known.00:48
terjeso, I'm still not quite clear..00:49
terjechange 'our' to 'my' where exactly?00:49
* terje smacks forehead00:49
crythiasnot only do I know. I can read minds :)00:49
@snapcountooh boy00:49
@snapcountself mutilation00:50
crythiasand you're killing yourself starting on 5.5.800:50
* snapcount gets some popcorn00:50
crythiasjust saying.00:50
crythiasmight want to take a look at my FAQ while you're at it :) http://www.gwy2.org/cgi-bin/fom00:50
@snapcountya know, the proper thing to do in a situation like this... is to ask our president what to do...00:50
@WRE"I will have a foreign-handed foreign policy."00:51
@snapcountsee, there's the answer00:51
@snapcountyou need a foreign handed foreign policy00:51
@WRE<crythias> http://tinyurl.com/o5vmu00:51
@WREBOFH Quick-excuse: Sysadmin accidentally destroyed pager with a large hammer.00:52
@snapcountboy, I'm in a mood today00:53
crythiasI guess :)00:53
* snapcount slaps snapcount around a bit with a large trout00:53
crythiasterje :) I hope you aren't offended by my responses :)00:53
@snapcountor mine00:53
terjeI'm not00:53
@snapcountyou can pipe me to /dev/null00:53
terjebut I'm not sure they're correct either.00:53
terje#our $parenthesis = qr /\(                      # Start with '(',00:54
terjemy $parenthesis = qr /\(                      # Start with '(',00:54
terjeis that what your saying needs to be changed?00:54
crythiasand restart apache00:54
terjebut that's not right either.00:55
crythiasbecause now what?00:55
crythiasdifferent error?00:55
crythiaslike... Gateway Interface not perl?00:55
* snapcount observes Mr Crythias... (Miss Cleo's cousin)00:56
terjehow is restarting apache going ot affect a perl script I'm running from the command line I wonder?00:56
terjeeffect, even :)00:57
crythiasbeats me. what effect is it having?00:57
crythiasaffect is verb, effect is noun. :)00:57
terjethanks for the correction.00:58
crythiasyou were correct in your first instance.00:58
terjeI'm simply doing a perl -c on the Macro.pm module00:58
crythiasgood call, that.00:58
@snapcountterje 2, crythias 100:58
crythiasyou're doing it with -I /path/to/WebGUI/lib00:58
terjechanging our $parenthesis to my $parenthesis doesn't fix the problem00:58
terjenegative, I'm not even there yet.00:59
terjehere's what I'm seeing after the change:00:59
terje[webgui@helo lib]$ perl -c WebGUI/Macro.pm00:59
terjeGlobal symbol "$parenthesis" requires explicit package name at (re_eval 6) line 2.00:59
terjeCompilation failed in regexp at WebGUI/Macro.pm line 54.00:59
terjeya dig?01:00
@WRE<crythias> http://tinyurl.com/rbbwv01:00
crythiasthat's your original01:01
crythiasthat's probably close enough to what it should be01:01
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui01:01
@snapcountI checked out SQLForm01:02
@snapcountnice job01:02
@snapcountJT IMs me, "look at this"01:02
terjehurah[webgui@helo lib]$ perl -c WebGUI.pm01:02
terjeWebGUI.pm syntax OK01:02
terjethanks crythias!01:02
@snapcountso I look, and it's your form01:02
crythiasmy form?01:03
@snapcountthen he's like "what do you think"01:03
@snapcountSQLForm demo01:03
@snapcountso I play01:03
@snapcountand I'm like01:03
@snapcountthis fucking rules01:03
@snapcountso he asks, "should we put it in core"01:03
@snapcountand I say, "does the code suck, can we maintain it"01:03
@snapcountand he's like01:03
@snapcountcode looks good01:03
@snapcountthe rest is history01:04
crythiasI can't guarantee 6.2.11 macro.pm is drop-in for 5.5.8 Macro.pm, terje01:04
* MrHairgrease remebers sombody stomping his feet on the floor: I want it now! I want it now!01:04
crythiasYou should diff them just to be sure.01:04
MrHairgreaseyou doubted my code?01:04
@snapcountI doubt everyones code01:04
MrHairgreaseyou'd better01:04
@snapcountuntil I see it01:04
MrHairgreasea more ego related quetion01:05
MrHairgreasewhere's this interview with me?01:05
MrHairgreaseI can't find it on wg,org01:05
@snapcountall over half the known world01:05
crythiasYeah, roy, where's the people behind webgui?01:05
@snapcountcan you not see it01:05
crythiasum ... not01:05
@snapcountuh oh01:05
MrHairgreasenot that I'm that curious01:05
@snapcountprolly set to admins01:06
MrHairgreaseI know the answers already anyway =)01:06
terjeso, I've got what I hope is one last question ..01:08
terjedoes this command:01:08
terje   mysql -e "grant all privileges on WebGUI.* to webgui@localhost identified by 'password'"01:08
terjeactually create the account for user webgui in mysql?01:08
terjeor does it simply grant access to webgui and I have to create that user account somehow?01:09
MrHairgreaseit also creates the account01:10
MrHairgreasewell sorta01:10
MrHairgreasewhat you did should work anyway01:10
terjeI can see the webgui user account in mysql.user but still can't login using the stuff I set.01:12
MrHairgreasecan you do this:01:13
MrHairgreasemysql -uwebgui -p WebGUI01:13
MrHairgreaseIf you can log in with that01:13
MrHairgreasethe db is configured properly01:13
MrHairgreasealso is the tablename correct?01:15
MrHairgreasemysql is case sensitive01:15
MrHairgreaseso webgui != WebGUI01:15
terjeright, I've figured that out01:15
terjeERROR 1044 (42000): Access denied for user 'webgui'@'localhost' to database 'WebGUI'01:16
@snapcountthere you are01:16
@snapcountthanks for pointing out my boo-boo01:16
MrHairgreasethat sucks01:16
terjeI'll have to update my pass and see if that helps.01:16
MrHairgreasedid you enter your password correctly in the grant clause01:16
terjewell, I thought I did :)01:16
MrHairgreaseyou don't suck01:16
terjedo you know how to update that password?01:17
MrHairgreasejust do the grant again01:17
terjeoh ok01:17
MrHairgreasethat should work01:17
MrHairgreasei think'01:17
crythiasif you're in 5.5.8 you'll need to make certain your dbi is uptodate01:17
* snapcount enjoys some little caesars pizza01:18
@snapcountmmm cheese Martin01:18
crythiasbecause mysql uses a different password mechanism01:18
* MrHairgrease pukes01:18
MrHairgreaseyeah sure01:18
MrHairgreasebut using the mysql client should work01:18
crythiasmight need to store under old password01:18
MrHairgreaseso if he cannot log in using that01:18
MrHairgreaseit's something else01:18
terjeok MrHairgrease, I thin I'm good.01:19
MrHairgreaseI'm watching myself on the internet01:19
MrHairgreasethank man01:19
terjebtw, I like the term 'Linuxish'01:20
MrHairgreaseprobably to piss of osx users =)01:20
MrHairgreaseroy: the picture01:21
@snapcountyou're looking at it01:21
MrHairgreaseof course01:21
MrHairgreasecalc narcism01:21
@WRENo calc set for "narcism"01:21
MrHairgreaseno luck this time =)01:21
@snapcountcalc urine01:21
@WREurine = <pb_M-Train> Did you know that all humans can urinate through their navels?01:21
MrHairgreasehow can you do that while you're eating01:21
@snapcountI'm done eating now01:22
MrHairgreasematt's wife has an lasting impact on all of us01:22
MrHairgreasei bet you are01:22
@snapcountcalc marriage01:22
@WREmarriage = <pbmdawg> my sister just got engaged <crythias> but you're already married...01:22
@snapcountthat's the best one ever01:22
MrHairgreasematt indeed does have all the good ones01:23
@snapcountMartin, isn't it like 3am where you are01:27
terjeoh man01:27
MrHairgreaseit's about 501:27
@snapcountin the morning!?01:27
MrHairgreaseit's 00:30ish01:27
terjethere are so many errors now when I hit it from a web browser01:27
terjeI can't believe this thing ever works.01:28
@snapcountwhat "thing"01:28
terjeThere's nothing about having writable permissions on different directories in the install file.01:28
@snapcountthe only dir that needs +w is uploads01:29
terje        WebGUI::Style::process('There is a syntax error in this template. Please correct.') called at /home/webgui/html/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI.pm line 4301:30
MrHairgreasewhat version are you on?01:30
terjeand there's more..01:30
terje        WebGUI::_generatePage('There is a syntax error in this template. Please correct.') called at /home/webgui/html/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI.pm line 16701:30
terje        WebGUI::page('/home/webgui/html/WebGUI', 'WebGUI.conf') called at /home/webgui/html/WebGUI/www/index.pl line 2801:30
terjeWhere's the version number?01:30
MrHairgreasedid you run wg-root/sbin/testEnvironment.pl01:30
terjeyes, it run's fine.01:31
terjeLatest version ........................... You are using 6.1.1 and 6.8.7-gamma is available.01:31
@snapcountat the top of WebGUI.pm01:31
terjeis that my problem?01:31
@snapcountholy hell man01:31
MrHairgreaseit's kinda ancient01:31
@snapcounthard to say01:31
@snapcountbut that's really old01:31
MrHairgreaseyou should try 6.7.x01:32
terjewith a name like -gamma I figured it was not ready for production.01:32
@snapcountif you go past 6.7 you'll need MP201:32
MrHairgreasegamma = stable01:32
terjeyea, ok, so what version do you recommend then?01:32
MrHairgreaseonly the api can change01:32
terjei gotcha01:32
@snapcountthe latest 6.701:32
MrHairgreasewhat he says01:32
terjecool, thanks for your patience guys.01:32
@snapcountunless you want to reconfigure  your environment01:33
terjenah, lemme give that a shot.01:33
MrHairgreaseand compile stuff by hand01:33
terjeI'm out for now.01:33
terjethanks again.01:33
@snapcountsure thing01:33
@snapcountoy! oy!01:33
@snapcount!seen perlDreamer01:34
@snapcount!lastSeen perlDreamer01:34
@snapcountdamn it01:34
@snapcountcan't remember cmds for my own bot01:34
@snapcount!lastSpoke perlDreamer01:34
* snapcount scratches his head with a stary gaze01:35
terjehas the database schema changed since 6.1.1 ?01:35
terjeshould I just drop it and re-create it?01:35
@snapcountoh yeah01:35
MrHairgreasedrop and re-recte01:36
terjewerd.. tomorrow then.01:36
MrHairgrease!seen perldreamer01:37
@snapcountmy seen script no workie01:38
@snapcountor PEBCAK01:38
MrHairgreasenot me01:38
@snapcount!lastSpoke crythias01:38
@WREcrythias last uttered a word on #webgui 20 minutes ago.01:38
@snapcount!last perlDreamer01:38
MrHairgreaseI saw crythias do a seen command on matt01:38
@snapcount!lastSeen perlDreamer01:39
MrHairgreaseit should be !seen01:39
@snapcount!seen fucker01:39
@WREsnapcount, I don't remember seeing fucker.01:39
@snapcount!seen perlDreamer01:39
MrHairgrease!seen a threeheaded monkey01:39
@WREMrHairgrease, I don't remember seeing a.01:39
MrHairgreasethat's a shame01:39
@snapcountso it works for people that don't exist01:39
MrHairgrease!seen pbmdawg01:39
@WREpbmdawg (n=SysAdmin@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com) was last seen parting #WebGUI 20 hours, 46 minutes ago stating "{}".01:39
@snapcountoh I know why01:40
MrHairgrease!seen mrhairgrease01:40
@WREMrHairgrease, go look in a mirror.01:40
@snapcounttis b/c the bot knows you guys01:40
* MrHairgrease click on that beautiful picture again01:40
@snapcountit won't track ppl he don't knoweth01:40
MrHairgreasea waste it iseth01:40
@snapcountI'll have to introduce them01:41
MrHairgreaseyou do that01:41
crythias!seen a_three-toed_sloth01:52
MrHairgreaselater guys01:52
crythiasI'm ignored by wre01:52
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@snapcountdo you know anything about eggdrop crythias01:55
crythiasmakes great soup01:55
@snapcountaside from that?01:55
crythiassorry. no. :( At last you have come upon the limits of my knowledge :)01:56
@snapcountyou should read up on it01:58
@snapcountI'll give you access to the party line01:59
@snapcountgive you more privs01:59
@snapcountfun stuff01:59
crythiasheh $7 alcy free beers02:05
@snapcountI found that funny as well02:10
crythiasSideBy Google is my new fried.02:19
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nbcccor1hey, do any of you have any experience running Jabber or any other IM server?16:50
@snapcountI logged into a jabber server yesterday16:54
@snapcountdoes that count?16:54
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nbcccor2not really.17:27
@snapcountI figured17:27
nbcccor2is my name showing as nbcccor2?17:27
@snapcount<-- look here17:27
nbcccor2it seems that gaim has some form of "undocumented learning opportunity".17:28
nbcccor2because it increments that number when I re-open the chat window.17:28
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nbcccor2my name should be nbcccorp17:28
@snapcountcan you issue commands?17:29
@snapcountie /stuff17:29
nbcccor2yeah but nobody listens.17:29
@snapcounttry /nick dr_evil17:29
-!- snapcount is now known as osama17:30
-!- nbcccor2 is now known as dr_evi117:30
dr_evi1it's changing the last char to a number17:30
-!- osama is now known as dumb3y17:30
-!- dr_evi1 is now known as abcdef17:30
-!- dumb3y is now known as snapcount17:30
-!- abcdef is now known as nbcccor117:30
@snapcountthat's weird17:31
nbcccor1I agree17:31
@snapcountI have 0 bytes of knowledge re: gaim17:31
@snapcountnot even a bit17:31
* snapcount slaps knee17:31
@snapcountgrep snapcount > /dev/null 2>/dev/null17:32
nbcccor1and to think, other people actually PAY for comedy17:32
@snapcountdon't forget the 217:33
@snapcountmost of my output goes to STDERR17:33
nbcccor1oh... so your married.17:33
@snapcountbut that's funny17:33
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terjehi guys, I'm back.19:05
terjehaving much success with the later version.19:05
terjeI think I'm having trouble getting my dsn right in the config file.19:06
terjedoes this look right: dsn = DBI:mysql:host=localhost19:06
-!- crythias [n=gyoung@] has joined #webgui19:08
terjeeh, that's not what I meant.19:08
terjeok, so I have the DSN right I think..19:11
terjebut I'm getting this error:19:11
terjeCan't connect to data source , no database driver specified and DBI_DSN env var not set at /home/webgui/html/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Session.pm line 31319:12
terjefrom my browser..19:12
terjeany ideas?19:12
crythiasyeah. check preload.perl19:12
terjecool, thanks.19:12
crythiasmake sure it knows data dir of webgui19:12
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terjethat was an issue..19:34
terjeand I've fixed it.. and restart apache.. same error msg.19:35
terjewhen apache starts it tells me it's loading WebGUI and the correct config file, etc.19:35
terjenot sure where to check next.19:35
crythiaslike I'm telling someone else, you're going to absolutely hate yourself when 7 comes out.19:36
crythiasbecause all this problem with 5.5.8... you're going to have to go through about 5 upgrades to get to 7.19:37
terjeI consider myself a pretty savy linux admin19:37
terjedude, I'll just reinstall from scratch.19:37
crythiasThat's funny.19:37
terjethat's just how I roll.19:38
terjeso any more suggestions as to the cause and solution to, my problem?19:38
terjebrb, need coffee.19:38
crythiasif you can use mysql -u user -p password database and connect with the values in your webgui.conf...19:39
crythiasthat helps.19:40
crythiasbut I'm reasonably certain that your problem is related to DBI-mysql not matching mysql 4.1+19:40
terjeI can connect using mysql -u ... database19:44
terjelet's check the DBI-mysql version, thanks.19:44
terjeis there a really simply test.pl I can do to see if that's the issue?19:50
terjewell I have a test script that uses DBI and I can connect to the WebGUI DB just fine.20:12
* terje scratches head20:12
terjedo I need to modify this in www/index.pl20:19
terje        $configFile = "WebGUI.conf";20:19
terjeto match the config file I created?20:19
terjeok, I'm pretty close now.20:37
terjedang man20:45
terjeso close yet so far.20:45
terjeI know I'm being needy20:46
terjehere's what I'm getting now..20:46
terjeif I perl www/index.pl - works great20:46
terjeif I20:46
terje[webgui@helo etc]$ GET http://webgui/WebGUI/www/index.pl20:46
terje500 Server closed connection without sending any data back20:46
terjeand the error in my log file is20:46
terjefailed to resolve handler WebGUI20:46
terjeI've checked my virtual host container and it seems to match the install document's instructions.20:47
pbmdawgwhich install document are you using20:54
@WRE<terje> http://tinyurl.com/4baaa20:54
terjeI think it's got something to do w/ PerlInitHandler WebGUI20:56
pbmdawgin your preload.perl20:57
pbmdawgdoes it use the path that WebGUI.pm is in?20:58
terjeI believe so20:59
terjeit's set to20:59
terje        $webguiRoot = "/home/webgui/html/WebGUI";20:59
pbmdawgbut does it "use" that path20:59
terjeshoudl that be /home/webgui/html/WebGUI/lib ?20:59
pbmdawgI don't know where you put your lib files21:00
pbmdawgwhat are the files/dirs under /home/webgui/html/21:00
terjejust WebGUI21:00
pbmdawgWhat's under that dir21:01
terjedocs  etc  lib  sbin  test.pl  www21:01
pbmdawgin your apache.conf21:01
pbmdawg PerlRequire /data/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl21:01
pbmdawgdo you have that above your vhost?21:01
terje[webgui@helo WebGUI]$ grep PerlRequire /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf21:02
terjePerlRequire /home/webgui/html/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl21:02
pbmdawgand it's above the vhost?21:02
pbmdawgabove the virtual host in the conf file, I mean21:07
pbmdawgand what is PerlSetVar WebguiRoot set to21:08
terjeactually it's not.21:12
terjethat is, it's not in the vhost container21:12
terjebut the instructions don't say to put one in there.21:12
pbmdawgI was asking it if was above the vhost, not in it21:12
terjeyes, it's above the vhost21:12
terjeway above the vhost though21:13
terjenear the load module section21:13
terjeI'll move it down.21:13
pbmdawgwhat about the PerlSetVar21:13
terjePerlSetVar is set to the name of my config file in etc/21:14
pbmdawgthat's in the vhost, right?21:14
pbmdawgI mean the PerlSetVar WebguiRoot21:14
pbmdawgwhat's WebguiRoot set to (above the vhost)21:15
terjePerlSetVar WebguiRoot /home/webgui/html/WebGUI21:16
pbmdawgApache can't find WebGUI.pm21:27
pbmdawgbut it should be able to find it if preload.perl is being loaded successfully21:28
pbmdawgthis is 6.8.7, right?21:28
@snapcountlooks like you guys are having a blast21:55
@snapcountI love it when clients cancel login support requests21:57
@snapcountit's like an early birthday present21:57
crythiascan't use installing_webgui for 55822:37
crythiasread the docs in docs22:37
@snapcountmy god, I can't believe it22:43
@snapcountI actually have time to write code now!22:43
* snapcount switches back to head22:43
@snapcountsomeone cue up the KnightRider theme song22:44
@snapcount"hello, michael"22:44
crythias... a man who does not exist.22:44
@snapcountI never did get the physics behind him driving the car onto the semi22:45
@snapcountbut I guess they are both going about the same speed22:45
@snapcountfor some reason it would seem to me that upon entry into the trailer the do vectors would combine and he would drive into the cab at 60mph22:47
@WRE<crythias> http://tinyurl.com/rcbyt22:47
@snapcountpbmdawg: what are you no'ing about22:48
pbmdawgas long as the firebird is rear wheel drive, he can drive up the semi ramp; he just has to put the car out of gear before the rear wheels touch the ramp22:48
* crythias gazes into the 8 ball: 8-ball: Um. Why bother asking me? I'm not sentient. 22:48
@snapcountyes, but if the tires hit the ramp22:49
@snapcountI am correct?22:49
crythiasfront wheel drive shouldn't be a problem.22:49
crythiasnot if brakes function, anyway.22:50
@snapcount60 -> 0 in 52 ft22:50
@snapcountgood breaks22:50
@snapcountand that's a big trailer22:50
@snapcountand a perfect reaction time22:50
@snapcountI say he parks it in the cab22:50
crythiasWhile rear wheels are on the ground, car moves at car rate or drag rate.22:51
crythiasvectors are in the same direction, anyway.22:51
@snapcountso riddle me this22:52
@snapcountyou drop a baseball into a pitching machine22:52
@snapcountwhat's the difference22:52
@snapcountso put the pitching machine in a truck22:52
pbmdawghe's not going from 60 to 022:52
pbmdawghe's going from 60 to 5522:52
pbmdawgif the truck is at 5522:53
@snapcountgood call22:53
pbmdawgonly the wheels have to slow down their rotation.22:53
pbmdawgwhich is why he must push in the clutch22:53
pbmdawgor else break his transmission22:53
@WRE<crythias> http://tinyurl.com/ockqu22:53
@snapcountwe need to do an experiment22:53
@snapcountsounds like a job for the myth busters!22:53
pbmdawgthat post is totally wrong22:54
@snapcountsounds right to me22:57
@WRE<crythias> http://tinyurl.com/mdte222:57
crythiasthe car is going 5 mph faster than the semi relative to road22:58
pbmdawgthe wheels have to slow down from 60mph to 5mph22:58
pbmdawgbut that happens all the time, with good brakes.22:58
pbmdawgyou can easily lock your tires while travelling at 6022:59
pbmdawgif you don't have ABS22:59
pbmdawgso that's not an issue22:59
@snapcountbut you have 50 ft22:59
pbmdawgwhat is an issue is if the car has *enough* inertia to get up the ramp22:59
@snapcountbut relative to the road matters not23:00
@snapcountonce the car is traveling 50 inside the semi23:00
@snapcountthen it's car relative to semi23:01
* snapcount phones Adam Savage23:01
@snapcount"we need a semi and knight rider... yes, we need them now"23:01
@snapcountthat would be a good episode23:02
pbmdawgactually the 2nd half of that post is correct23:03
crythias ------------------------------23:03
crythias VEHICLE TYPE:  Front engine, rear wheel drive, two          23:03
crythias                passenger, two door coupe            23:03
crythiasfrom official faq23:03
* pbmdawg gets back to work23:04
* pbmdawg excuses himself to barf23:10
* snapcount fires up vmare and dreams of 7.023:14
pbmdawgI'm almost done with my vmware appliance: WebGUIdev23:15
@snapcountwhat is a vmware appliance?23:15
pbmdawg330MB compressed23:15
@snapcountgimmie a link23:15
@WRE<pbmdawg> http://tinyurl.com/qmd3g23:15
@snapcounthey you guys want to hear a joke23:15
@snapcountwhy are redneck murders so hard to solve?23:16
@snapcountbecause there are usually no teeth and all the dna is the same23:16
* snapcount slaps his knee and chuckles23:16
pbmdawgI'm also making a firewall appliance and an email filtering appliance23:17
crythiasKnight Rider, a shadowy flight into the dangerous world of a man  who does not exist.  Michael Knight, a young loner on a crusade to champion the cause  of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless in a world of  criminals who operate above the law.23:30
@snapcountdon't forget the cousin of knight rider23:31
@snapcountand possibly an even better show23:31
@snapcountsame time period23:31
@snapcountany guesses?23:31
crythiasstreet hawk23:32
@snapcountding ding ding23:32
@snapcountAirwolf was the shiznet23:32
crythiasStreet Hawk was cool23:32
@snapcountvoltron was also a good guess23:32
crythiasBlue Thunder23:33
@snapcountyou need to leave now23:33
crythiasPowers of Matthew Star23:33
pbmdawgMiami Vice23:33
@snapcountooh ooh23:33
pbmdawgMagnum PI23:33
@snapcountspeaking of rr23:33
@snapcountwe're getting bumped up tonight23:33
crythiasThe Greatest American Hero23:33
@snapcountmore speed23:33
@snapcountif I pay them $$ I can get 10Mbps23:34
@snapcounteveryone is getting 7Mbps as the std package23:34
* pbmdawg has GigE metropolitan-area-network connection23:34
pbmdawg(in his dreams)23:34
@snapcountshit... I think my dog is on catnip again23:35
* pbmdawg runs off to import some phone extensions.23:35
* crythias sits on his OC48 pipe. awe, yeah.23:35
@snapcountthat's a big pipe23:35
@snapcountmy sb server had oc4823:35
crythiassmoke em if you got em23:35
@snapcountIt's gone as of today23:35
pbmdawgmine is live for another few weeks.23:36
pbmdawgmy 1 remaining out of the 4, I mean.23:37
crythiassnapcount's KR problem has the car going 120mph.. the other views are that KR stalls23:37
pbmdawgMy view is that KR stalls or the transmission breaks; one of those :)23:37
@snapcountyes but that is due to limitations of the carr23:37
@snapcountif the car could take it, caterus parebus, the semi-drive would have a firebird up his ass asking for Micahael23:38
crythiasManual transmission is great: drop clutch.23:38
crythiasok. what if instead there was a wench pulling the car up?23:39
crythiasnot that this is the case..23:40
@snapcountthat would be fine23:40
crythiashow fast would the wench be pulling the car?23:40
@snapcountrelative to?23:40
crythiasthe ground23:40
pbmdawgyeah, I think that realistically, it would need something to pull it up, unless he approaches the semi in 2nd gear, but puts it in gear as soon as the rear wheels slow down to carVsRamp speed23:41
@snapcountwench speed + semi speed23:41
@snapcountand as soon as the car is on semi entirely23:41
@snapcountjust the wench speed23:42
crythiaswhat's the difference between wench pulling and car driving?23:42
@snapcountthe wench is attached to the truck23:42
pbmdawgcalc wench a young girl23:42
pbmdawgcalc winch a motorized cable-puller23:42
crythiasDepends on your characterization of Bonnie, I guess :)23:42
pbmdawgcalc wench23:43
@WREwench = a young girl23:43
crythiasbtw. gotta go. Be for my son's birthday23:44
@snapcountdid you guys hear the one about the pirate who walked into the bar with a steering wheel sticking out of his crotch?23:44
pbmdawghe needed someone to turn hiim on?23:44
@snapcountbartender: wtf is that?  a steering wheel?23:44
crythiason Robot Chicken.23:44
@snapcountpirate: yarrr, tis drivin' me nuts23:45
crythiasWhat does Soylent Green taste like? Varies from person to person.23:45
-!- crythias [n=gyoung@] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]23:47
@snapcountall of the admin bars in head are empty23:48
--- Day changed Fri Mar 03 2006
pbmdawg /Roy empties the bars00:13
@snapcountJT forgot to commit the new template00:15
@snapcounthey I got this vmware img from you00:15
@snapcountif you run setenvironment in /data/wre/etc00:15
@snapcountand try to use svn00:15
@snapcountdoes it puke?00:15
@snapcounton your cent-os vmware image00:16
pbmdawgI didn't give you an image00:16
pbmdawgyou made it00:16
@snapcountno I didn't00:16
@snapcountI got it from you at JT's00:16
@snapcountI copied it from your computer00:16
pbmdawgI didn't think so00:16
pbmdawgit uses my passwords00:17
pbmdawgand I wouldn't have givne you my passwords00:17
@snapcountmaybe it's jt's image00:17
@snapcountcuz it's using pb passwords00:17
@snapcounttry running /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment00:17
@snapcountthen using svn00:17
@snapcountit's fucking annoying b/c i have to open a new shell that's not using wre env vars to use svn00:18
@snapcountlinkin park is so great00:19
@snapcount...I'm in love wit a strippa00:26
@snapcountdrop it low00:26
terjeeh, I'm back again00:58
terje<pbmdawg> but it should be able to find it if preload.perl is being loaded successfully00:59
terjeyes, preload.perl is being found correctly00:59
terjeand it's able to load WebGUI.pm00:59
terje[webgui@helo WebGUI]$ perl -c sbin/preload.perl01:00
terjesbin/preload.perl syntax OK01:00
terjeso if anyone has any ideas, I'm all ears.01:00
terjeI'll keep fiddling w/ it.01:00
@WRE<snapcount> http://tinyurl.com/gp7ez01:00
pbmdawgyou cannot use those intall instructions you are using with webgui 5.5.801:01
pbmdawgthose are for 6.8+01:01
terjeno, I'm not using 5.5.801:01
pbmdawgoh; what version01:01
terjeI'm using 6.7-gammaa01:01
pbmdawgcan't use those install instructions with 6.701:01
terjeoh really?01:02
pbmdawgyes really01:02
terjethe install.txt file says to use those..01:02
terjeWhat is the current stable version?01:02
terjeI'm starting over with that src.01:03
pbmdawgyou don't need to start over01:03
pbmdawgjust delete the /WebGUI dir and copy 6.8.7 there01:03
pbmdawgthe rest of your setup is fine01:03
pbmdawgyou don't need index.pl in 6.8, btw'01:04
pbmdawgthen of course load the new create.sql01:07
terjethis is going much more smoothly :P01:13
@snapcountmmm smoothies01:15
pbmdawgwell I either found a bug in Data::Dumper or something else is seriously wrong01:17
pbmdawg$VAR1 = [01:17
pbmdawg          'userId',01:17
pbmdawg'         'internalExtension01:17
pbmdawg        ];01:17
pbmdawgbut the bad part is01:18
pbmdawgforeach (@$VAR1) { print $_ }01:18
pbmdawgonly returns 'userId'01:18
@snapcountdoes it do if you use something besides the default var01:19
@snapcountforeach my $var (@$VAR1) { print $var }01:19
@snapcountwhat is $VAR101:20
@snapcounthash ref01:20
pbmdawgarray ref01:20
@snapcountwith one element01:20
@snapcountwhat are the elements, scalars?01:20
pbmdawgsupposed to be userId and internalExtension01:20
@snapcountthat's a pretty simple structure01:20
pbmdawgyou'd think.01:21
@snapcountso dumper is reporting data that doesn't exist in the array?01:21
pbmdawgdumper is reporting data that is supposed to exist01:21
pbmdawgbut that doesn't exist when I do foreach01:21
pbmdawgbut dumper has that apostrophe in a weird place01:22
@snapcountand why is that a data dumper problem?01:22
@snapcountI see that now01:22
@snapcountI bet your structure is fucked up01:22
@snapcounthow is that array ref built01:22
pbmdawgbadly/wrongly, probably.01:23
@snapcountthats a lot of *ly's01:23
@WRE|bash 76905| <jjwalker> he was right, our mom is a weirdo...I went to go play laser tag, and I didn't tell her where I was going...and when I walked in just now she fucking assaulted my ass...with fists01:23
@WRE|bash 76905| <jjwalker> then she threw a book at me 0_o01:23
@WRE|bash 76905| <_seb_> damn man she anally fisted you?01:23
@WRE|bash 76905| <_seb_> that sucks01:23
@WRE|bash 76905| <_seb_> must have hurt01:23
@snapcountthat's rather disturbing01:24
@snapcountsomeone broke my shiznet01:25
@snapcountCouldn't call method addToCart on asset for url: home/untitled Root cause: Can't locate object method "user" via package "Asset_EventManagementSystem" (perhaps you forgot to load "Asset_EventManagementSystem"?) at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/International.pm line 78.01:25
@snapcountwhat. the. hell.01:25
* snapcount get's out the light saber01:25
pbmdawgthat might be a bug in perl01:26
pbmdawgI changed it to use push01:26
pbmdawgand it started working correctly01:26
@snapcountah ssss push it, push it real good01:26
pbmdawgmruhaha.  it is a bug in perl01:27
@snapcountare you using version 201:27
@snapcountI need to get some new 'shoes' for my ride01:27
pbmdawgif you put a scalar with an LF as the last char of the scalar into an array, that item in the array is ignored and read incorrectly.01:28
@snapcountdid you write a simple script to dup it01:28
@snapcountoutside of wg01:28
pbmdawgno but I can01:28
@snapcountI would01:28
pbmdawgthis is a script that's not in wg01:29
@snapcountthe simple part is the important part01:29
pbmdawgthis stuff happens before a wg session is even created.01:29
@snapcountno perl developer is going to look into this unless you can dup it with like two lines of code01:30
pbmdawgI know01:30
@snapcountthat would be pretty sweet if you found a bug in perl01:30
pbmdawgbuffer overflow here we come01:31
terjeso I've installed mod_perl as an RPM on FC4 but the perl modules are asking for it's src.. and apache's src code.01:31
pbmdawgroy can you help terje01:31
terjethis has been a rough exercise for poor terje.01:31
@snapcountwhy don't you just use the wre01:31
@snapcountit's much easier01:31
terjeI guess because I don't know what that is.01:31
@snapcountall of this stuff is already compiled for you01:31
@snapcountcalc wre01:32
@WREwre = WebGUI Runtime Environment01:32
@snapcountit has all this crap pre-compiled and configured01:32
@snapcountit's on sf.net01:32
* terje googles WebGUI Runtime Environment01:32
terjeis there an FC4 version?01:32
@snapcountthere's an fc version that will get you close enough01:33
@snapcountyou want 0.6.x01:33
@snapcountfor WG versions 6.8.+01:33
@snapcountdownload the source01:33
@snapcountand the prereqs tarball01:33
@snapcountyou don't even need those01:34
@snapcountthat's only if you want to compile yourself01:34
@snapcountI'll go look01:34
* pbmdawg pokes roy for giving bad advice01:34
@snapcountand stop being lazy01:34
@WRE<terje> http://tinyurl.com/rtvl401:34
@snapcounttry the one for rhel401:35
@snapcountthat should work fine01:35
@snapcountI need to setup an FC server and make a wre binary for it01:36
@snapcountIf I could only do it without having to do anything...01:37
* snapcount ponders01:37
terjeuse my machine01:37
terjeyou can install it for me while you're at it.01:37
terjeI've been at this 2 days now.01:37
pbmdawgroy: not a bad idea01:37
pbmdawgI have all the fc4 cds downloaded so I could do it in a vm01:37
pbmdawgbut not tonight01:37
@snapcountI'm sure that one would go over great with the HNIC01:37
pbmdawgterje: do you have all the latest patches01:38
terjeOS patches?01:38
terjebut this system is a mess now01:39
pbmdawgFC4 has been for what, 9 months?01:39
pbmdawg1 year?01:39
terjeI think longer01:39
terjeyea, I think I'll reinstall the OS before trying this01:40
terjethere's all kinds of perl mods and packages I probably don't need (from webgui 6.1.1)01:40
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@snapcountterje: here's the deal01:40
@snapcountthat binary sucketh01:40
@snapcountand won't work on FC401:40
@snapcountI have good news01:41
@snapcountyou can compile it all yourself01:41
terjei could use some01:41
@snapcountand it will work fine01:41
@snapcountall the shit you need01:41
@snapcountis in the package01:41
terjethere's a ridiculous amound of dependancies01:41
@snapcountyou just have to build it01:41
@snapcountit's all in there01:41
@snapcountthat's the whole point01:41
terjehow about you bake an FC4 binary and I install that01:41
@snapcountI could do that01:42
@snapcountdo you want me to?01:42
terjeI would love that.01:42
@snapcountyou know what01:42
@snapcountI will01:42
@snapcounta lot of people have asked01:42
@snapcountit should be there tommorow01:42
@snapcountor late tonight01:42
terjeI'm your new friend.01:42
terjeok, I'll wait for it.01:42
terjeI have some much other stuff to do now.01:42
terjethanks man.01:42
@snapcountthe checks in the mail ;=)01:42
terjeright "no go away terje and never bother us again"01:43
@snapcountif you were an idiot maybe01:43
@snapcountthen I'd just kick you01:43
@snapcountwebgui is a beeotch for even the best sysadmins01:43
@snapcountwe're trying to improve on that01:43
terjecool man, well I'd sure love to beta-test the FC4 binary.01:44
@snapcountI'll git 'r done01:44
@snapcountI'm downloading these cd's01:55
@snapcountall four at the same time01:55
@snapcount150Kb/s each01:55
@snapcountnot too shabby01:55
* terje mixes a martini02:05
@WRE"Listen, Al Gore is a very tough opponent. He is the incumbent. He represents the incumbency. And a challenger is somebody who generally comes from the pack and wins, if you're going to win. And that's where I'm coming from."02:27
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@snapcountcoma estas02:55
@snapcountdonde esta el bano?  el queso es viaja y ongo02:55
@snapcountdid I make your screen blink02:56
crythiasor.. gaim told me you typed my name02:56
@snapcounthow are you02:56
@snapcountwhere is the bathroom02:56
@snapcountthe cheese is old and moldy02:56
crythiasfine. the cheese is old and... stinky02:56
@snapcountencino man02:57
crythiasbueno. Me gusta ensenar cosas nuevas02:57
crythiashow may I ab^hmuse you?02:58
@snapcountjust talkin02:58
@snapcountI didn't need anything02:58
@snapcountI'm building an FC4 wre02:59
@snapcountif it's possible02:59
@snapcountJT has tried with FC3 and FC4 with no luck02:59
crythiasI should consider making a FreeBSD binary.02:59
@snapcountyeah what the hell02:59
crythiasnot certain I want to do zip-n-go...02:59
@snapcountwe have a windows wre in the works03:00
@snapcountit will be ready in 10^-2 centuries03:00
crythiasit'd be webgui.freebsd.tar.gz03:00
crythiasready in a year?03:01
crythiastime to take your axatives... it's time for American Idol eliminations.03:01
@snapcountforgot you're a math guy03:02
@snapcountmost people are like huh?03:02
crythias10 types of people... those who understand binary, those who don't..03:02
@snapcountreally screw with them 10^-3 centuries03:02
crythias1.2 months?03:02
@snapcount1 century = 100 years03:03
@snapcountso .1 centuries03:03
crythiaswe've established 1^-2=1 year03:03
crythias12 months/1003:04
@snapcount36.5 days03:04
@snapcountor 365*.103:04
crythiasalmost a month03:04
@snapcountmore than a month03:04
@snapcountisn't this fun03:04
@snapcountit will be done in 36.5 days03:04
@snapcountthe cheese is old and moldy03:05
crythiaschili con queso... a fromage03:10
crythiaswith cheese03:10
crythiasWaiter, I'll have pie a la mode. Actually, I'd like some ice cream, too.03:11
crythiasI think I might submit my SideBy Google to digg03:12
crythias"That's lame. Frames are so last century"03:12
crythiasI don't want to host it on my local box03:13
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pbmdawghow's it coming terje03:36
pbmdawghave you made an FC4 wre binary for us yet? :)03:36
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-!- mode/#webgui [+o pbmdawg] by WRE03:36
-!- mode/#webgui [+o crythias] by pbmdawg03:37
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wouter_procolixHoi Grobbebol :-)16:02
GrobbebolDag meneer Wouter16:02
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-!- ian` is now known as ian_procolix16:18
ian_procolixhoi wouter_procolix16:18
wouter_procolixhoi ian_procolix16:19
ian_procolixalles goed?16:20
ian_procolixdag marc16:20
Grobbeboldag ian16:20
-!- ian_procolix is now known as Ian|ProcoliX16:22
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-!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by WRE17:30
@snapcountwelcome, friends from the Netherlands17:32
@snapcountor is it just martin who is in the netherlands?17:32
-!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-69-139-51-253.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui17:34
Ian|ProcoliXit is17:41
Ian|ProcoliXmr snapcount17:41
Ian|ProcoliXbut martin is in the netherlands aswell :-)17:42
@snapcountso I've decided I like VMWare17:52
@snapcountso much easier than dragging another machine out of the basement17:52
@snapcounthaving a damn serverfarm in the house to run all the *nixes17:52
Ian|ProcoliXbut less cool17:52
@snapcountyes in the social sense17:52
@snapcountnot in the thermodynamic sense17:53
Ian|ProcoliXtrue =)17:53
-!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-69-139-51-253.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]17:53
@snapcountso what do you do over at Procolix Ian?17:53
Ian|ProcoliXsystem and network engineer17:53
Ian|ProcoliXi gotta kill the webgui's that take 100% cpu load on our servers ;)17:54
@snapcountI have a great respect for network engineers17:54
@snapcountoh haha17:54
Ian|ProcoliXI have respect for them webgui developers17:54
@snapcountI've been learning more about networking17:54
@snapcountI recently got iptables going17:54
@snapcountfor my gateway machine at home17:54
Ian|ProcoliXiptables is cool17:55
@snapcountmy latest conquest was snort and base17:55
Ian|ProcoliXI dislike snort17:55
-!- Grobbebol [n=marc@host1.procolix.nl] has joined #webgui17:55
@snapcountso I can see all the script-kiddies and worms trying to violate me17:55
Ian|ProcoliXtakes to much cpu load17:55
@snapcountmy little gateway server is like "ummf"17:55
@snapcountbut it's not like a business or anything17:56
@snapcountit's just for my enjoyment and entertainment17:56
Ian|ProcoliXyeah its fun to play around with when it works17:56
Ian|ProcoliXwhen it doesn't its a pain in the ass17:56
@snapcounttrue for many things17:56
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@snapcountI'm trying to compile a WRE binary for FC4 right now17:57
@snapcountso far so good17:57
Ian|ProcoliXwe're mostly into gentoo17:57
@snapcountI love gentoo17:57
@snapcountit's just cool17:57
@snapcounttakes like 10 years to install though if you compile everything17:58
Ian|ProcoliXwhaha yeah17:58
@snapcountbut that's also what makes it cool17:58
Ian|ProcoliXthats true17:58
Ian|ProcoliXwell im out18:00
Ian|ProcoliXcu later roy18:00
@snapcountlater man18:00
@snapcountnice talking with you18:00
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-!- crythias [n=gyoung@] has joined #webgui18:50
@snapcountgerald is coming18:50
@snapcountdamn it18:51
@snapcountyou beat me18:51
@snapcountfc 4 wre18:51
@snapcountso far so good18:51
@snapcountmysql is compiling now18:51
crythias6 diggs18:53
@snapcountwhat does that mean18:53
@WRE<crythias> http://tinyurl.com/mfktq18:53
crythiasah, well18:55
@snapcountwhat does 6 diggs mean though18:55
@snapcountare they like votes18:55
@snapcountcan I vote for it18:56
crythiasI "digg" this18:56
crythiasif you have an account.18:56
@snapcountI'll promote your cause18:56
-!- snapcount changed the topic of #webgui to: *==Vote for Gerald--* http://tinyurl.com/mfktq18:57
@snapcountmaybe we can double your votes18:57
crythiasI can digg it you can digg it we can digg it :)18:57
@snapcounthow many are required for fame and fortune18:57
crythiashey ... 20 votes in an hourand I cna make it to front page :)18:57
@snapcountwe need to gather a militia for this task18:58
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-!- mode/#webgui [+o crythias] by WRE19:00
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@crythiasahh yeah... 'tis Matt! and welcome to .. here.19:02
@snapcountwe need your vote19:02
@snapcountdo you digg it19:03
@snapcountI just registered19:03
* pbmdawg crumples like a skyscraper19:03
@crythiasthen we'll bum rush digg for WebGUI 7 :)19:03
terjehey snapcount19:03
terjehow'd it go last night?19:03
@snapcountmy digg didn't get counted19:03
@snapcountit's still going19:03
@snapcountlooking good so far19:04
@crythiasdid your knees explode or were they hit by missiles?19:04
@snapcountmysql is compiling now19:04
terjeI'll re-image this box right now then.19:04
@snapcountI think we're over the hump19:04
@crythiasMaybe the planes had to bounce off the ground before landing in you.19:04
@snapcountapache/mp2/apr are the beeotches19:04
@snapcountand they are dizone19:05
terjeyou said hump..19:05
@crythiasWhatcha gonna do with all that junk.. all that junk in side your hump...19:05
terjewhat we really need is just a WRE linux distro based on FC419:05
terjelike download and install this ISO19:05
pbmdawghee.  I have it for Debian19:05
@crythiasu got me spendin'... spendin all my money on ye. all my time on ye.19:06
terjeyea dog19:06
@snapcountdoes it work yet19:06
pbmdawgjust not on macs19:06
terjethat is sweet.19:06
@snapcountab results?19:06
pbmdawgb/c there's no vmware player for a mac19:06
@crythias*in whiner mode* "No, not debian! I *must* have it for Ubuntu"19:06
@snapcountdoes it suck19:06
pbmdawgno, hold on, I'll run ab19:07
@snapcountslower than crap eh19:07
@snapcountwe need to find someone with a production class machine19:07
@snapcountget the vmware player on it19:07
@snapcountsimmer, and let cool19:07
pbmdawgI have Athlon 300019:07
pbmdawg1 GB ram19:07
pbmdawgthat's what I'm testing it on now19:08
@snapcountnow all we have to do is simmer, and let cool19:08
pbmdawgdo you want 100 unique visitors19:08
pbmdawg(new sessions created for each)19:08
pbmdawgor 100 of the same user19:08
@snapcountI want to hear your smoke detectors go off as the cpu melts19:09
@snapcountI choose a) alex19:09
@snapcount100 unique users for 30019:09
pbmdawgfor 100 unique users, 1 concurrent19:10
@crythias330 :)19:10
@snapcountmysql compiled19:11
pbmdawg6.8.7 btw19:11
@snapcountonto image magick19:11
@snapcountI'm in love wit a strippa...19:12
@snapcountdrop it low19:12
* pbmdawg barfs all over his dog, who looks very dejected and sad as a result.19:12
@snapcountyou don't like strippers19:12
@crythiasonly when I'm painting.19:13
pbmdawg430 KB/s for -n200 -c5 with a wgSession cookie19:14
pbmdawgthat's not bad19:14
@snapcountto do a true test19:15
@snapcountyou'd need to run it native on equiv hardware19:15
@snapcountand see the delta yo19:15
pbmdawgbut that beats plainblack.com :P19:15
* pbmdawg DOS's plainblack.com19:16
@crythiashee aay19:19
@snapcountoh yeah19:19
@snapcountmy period was too low19:19
@crythiasI'm glad there's context for that statement.19:20
@snapcountman... it would be nice to have a dl380 g4 here to do this wre build with19:23
@snapcount15K scsi drives19:23
@snapcounthyperthreaded cpus19:24
@snapcountlike 4GB of ram19:24
@crythiasbtw. my wife and I have a joke regarding "Don't end a sentence in a preposition"19:24
@crythiasA preposition isn't good to end a sentence with, dammit.19:25
@snapcountlike, "honey, do you want to go to bed early tonight, wink wink"19:25
@snapcountnone of those19:25
@snapcountthat's proposition19:25
@snapcountmy bad shorty19:25
@snapcountI'm segfaulting19:25
@snapcount==(0* snapcount ready for work --*\19:27
@crythiasheh. So the guy'd been in jail for a year. He was released, then arrested for soliciting a prostitute. The judge said, "what the heck? Don't you know you shouldn't end your sentence with a proposition?"19:27
@snapcountWould you like to play a game?19:27
@crythiasLet's play global thermonuclear war.19:27
@snapcounthow about a nice game of tic-tac-toe?19:27
@snapcountthe only winning move is... not to play19:28
@crythiasNo. Let's play global thermonuclear war.19:28
@crythiasChoose a side.19:28
@crythiasLet's play Russian19:28
@snapcountI'll go with pluto19:28
@snapcountthe planet, not the dog19:28
@crythiasjust making sure.19:28
* snapcount grabs some popcorn as earth destroys it's self19:29
@snapcountI'll go first19:29
@snapcountyou lost moscow19:29
@snapcountI win19:29
@snapcountyou sunk my battleship19:29
@WRE"I mean, there needs to be a wholesale effort against racial profiling, which is illiterate children."19:30
@snapcount!quote agthx19:30
@WREAGTHX -> 32.03 +0.10 / Last Trade  Mar  2 / Change  +0.31% / Volume  N/A / 52 Week Range N/A19:31
@snapcountgo baby go19:31
@snapcount!quote smcwx19:31
@WRESMCWX -> 38.54 +0.09 / Last Trade  Mar  2 / Change  +0.23% / Volume  N/A / 52 Week Range N/A19:31
pbmdawg!quote BC19:31
@WREBC -> 39.13 -0.63 / Last Trade  12:14pm / Change  -1.58% / Volume  39.24 / 52 Week Range 39.2819:31
* pbmdawg takes advantage of papajohns.com coupon: 1 large 2 topping for $7.9919:35
@snapcountI want some papa johns19:38
@snapcountand how do you expect me to come up with that kind of dough19:40
* snapcount slaps his knee19:41
pbmdawgsell your body19:41
pbmdawgshould take 2 nights19:41
@snapcountthat's not a bad idea19:41
@snapcountI only need one of these kidneys... probably stand to loose a nipple or something19:42
pbmdawgsell most of your liver; it'll grow back19:43
@snapcounttrue true19:43
@snapcountappendix, gal bladder19:44
@snapcountso I can get rid of those19:44
@snapcountbling bling19:46
@snapcountperlmodules are installing19:46
@snapcount'got new shoes on da ride... rollin' down 95'19:47
-!- chansen [n=chansen@h48n3c1o1099.bredband.skanova.com] has quit ["bbl"]20:00
@snapcounttime for an experiment20:10
@WRE<snapcount> http://tinyurl.com/kgrwh20:12
@snapcountyou all passed the test20:42
@snapcountlibapreq2 barfed20:42
@snapcountlast thing in the build20:42
@crythiaslibapreq2 inhales forcefully20:43
@snapcountI'll beat this bitch into submission20:43
* snapcount dons his gi and numbchucks20:44
@snapcountglue is missing a module20:45
@snapcountanyone want a dougnut?20:47
@snapcountI have cake style with chocolate glaze20:47
@snapcounttastes great, less filling20:48
@crythiasEclair: tastes great, more filling!20:49
@snapcountI'm building glue manually20:49
@snapcountit wanted ModPerl::MM which isn't installed for some reason by wre or cpan via prereqs20:50
@snapcountappears to be compiling ok now20:50
@crythias1.fm rocks20:50
pbmdawgECLAIRE.COM is already taken20:51
@snapcountI had a genuis plan20:51
@snapcountI was going to buy sketshooters.com20:51
@snapcountthat's what rappers are calling ejaculation now20:51
@crythiasohh my beloved ice cream bar! how I love to lick your creamy filling!20:51
@snapcountso I was gonna sell it to some porn site20:51
@snapcountthey spell it20:51
@snapcountI looked at some lyrics20:52
@snapcountI bailed on the plan though20:52
@crythiasfountains of protein.com20:52
@crythiasI think I'm going to be sick.20:52
@crythiasand it's available.20:54
@snapcountcheck sploogeblower.com20:55
@snapcountwe should alias it to webgui.org20:55
pbmdawg     LOLPLATES.COM  $8.95*/yr20:55
@crythiasheh! www.whiteprotein.com => "Welcome to plainblack.com"20:56
pbmdawgsploogeblower.com available20:56
@crythiassketshooter.com available20:56
@snapcountwhat does it mean when a test returns a result of dubious20:57
pbmdawgawwww  milfkiller.com already taken.20:57
@snapcounthow about20:57
@snapcounthas a nice ring to it20:57
@crythiasdat's just sick20:57
@snapcountstacy's mom... has got it goin' on20:58
@snapcountwhat does it mean20:59
@snapcountthe test wants to smoke a dubious20:59
@snapcountI don't get it20:59
@snapcountlet's ask W21:01
@WRE"They have miscalculated me as a leader."21:01
@WRE"It's your money. You paid for it."21:01
@WRE"If the East Timorians decide to revolt, I'm sure I'll have a statement."21:01
@WRE"The California crunch really is the result of not enough power-generating plants and then not enough power to power the power of generating plants."21:02
pbmdawg!quote BC21:05
@WREBC -> 39.64 -0.12 / Last Trade  2:03pm / Change  -0.30% / Volume  39.60 / 52 Week Range 39.6521:05
@crythiascalc random21:08
@WRENo calc set for "random"21:08
@WREfoo = foobar21:08
@snapcountfreakin' idiot21:09
@WREconfusion = <pb_M-Train> DUDE this ROCKS but I'm not sure what to do with it.21:10
@WREabcstore = Poker in the front. Liquor in the rear. Anteater out until further notice.21:10
@WREpomade = <rizen> give me some of that palmade <MrHairGrease> I hope you mean pomade21:10
@WREtestes = here goes a new line  is it down here?21:11
@WREwouter = <crythias> so. is it pronounced like wooter or router?21:11
@snapcountI think that one is my new favorite21:12
@WREtestes = here goes a new line  is it down here?21:13
@WREmattscode = <pbmdawg> {dangit;} i broke 6.9... beyond repair, probably.21:13
@WREurine = <pb_M-Train> Did you know that all humans can urinate through their navels?21:13
@WREflame = Roy and Martin are lovers21:13
@WREtwo = one21:13
@WREbunghole = FIRE FIRE FIRE!!!21:14
@WREabcstore = Poker in the front. Liquor in the rear. Anteater out until further notice.21:14
@WREdocs = <snapcount> JT already wrote it <snapcount> currently it inserts 200 random words at a time into the database21:14
@WREurethra = {[23:14]} snapcount: or, you could commit it fucked up and try to get others to help you fix it21:14
@WREmattcompile = <pb_M-Train>: I've never compiled anything before.21:15
@WREburn = brb self-immolation21:15
@snapcountthey are screwed up21:15
@WREstool = crythias: sharing stool. that's just .. gross.21:15
@snapcountthe keys don't match the values21:15
pbmdawgyeah they do21:16
pbmdawgjust that one was off21:16
@WREBOFH Quick-excuse: You can tune a file system, but you can't tune a fish, from most tunefs man pages21:16
@WRE|bash 85565| <revision> in biochem class today, and our teacher, has the hugest fastest ass ever, massive fat ass right.21:16
@WRE|bash 85565| <revision> so hes writing on the board, and moving as he goes, when all of a sudden *WHACK*. he turned around too fast and his FAT ass hit the corner of his desk reall really hard.21:16
@WRE|bash 85565| <revision> lol drops to the ground for like 30 seconds while clutching his rump, then gets up and runs out, blubbering all the way.21:16
@WRE|bash 85565| <revision> i have never laughed so hard at someone elses expense.21:16
@WRE|bash 88528| <Fark_Ninja> The most overlooked advantage to owning a computer is that if it fouls up there's no law against wacking it around a little.21:16
@WRE|bash 88528| <Cerebus> The same is actually true for a penis.21:16
pbmdawgcalc chirp "And I was thinking, 'chirpy chirpy chirpy'"21:17
@WRE|bash 119073| <exo> why are redneck murders so hard to solve21:17
@WRE|bash 119073| <exo> cuz theres no dental records and all their DNA is the same21:17
@WRE|bash 119073| <fearz> HAHAHA21:17
@snapcountyou broke bash21:18
pbmdawg!bash ME21:18
@WRE!bash search results: Q# 23396 | Q# 4281 | Q# 5273 | Q# 99060 | Q# 244321 | Q# 287414 | Q# 99835 | Q# 207373 | Q# 5775 | Q# 475321:18
@snapcount!bash bash21:18
@WRE!bash search results: Q# 21516 | Q# 185361 | Q# 60469 | Q# 192531 | Q# 345144 | Q# 194647 | Q# 31 | Q# 230936 | Q# 140720 | Q# 5007021:18
pbmdawg!bash crythias21:18
@WRE!bash: no results found for search21:18
pbmdawg!bash roy21:18
@WRE!bash search results: Q# 104383 | Q# 151861 | Q# 408973 | Q# 520466 | Q# 402242 | Q# 610952 | Q# 15920 | Q# 181581 | Q# 56044 | Q# 1381321:18
pbmdawg!bash snapcount21:18
@WRE!bash: no results found for search21:18
pbmdawg!bash 10438321:18
@WRE!bash: quote has too many lines to display in public channel (max 12, quote has 34): sending as privmsg instead21:19
pbmdawg!bash 15186121:19
pbmdawg!bash 40897321:19
pbmdawg /kick crythias21:20
@WRE|bash| -[Conroy_Bumpus]- OH FUCK ME21:20
@WRE|bash| -[Conroy_Bumpus]- 9 HOURS AGO21:20
@WRE|bash| -[Conroy_Bumpus]- HOLY SHIT21:20
@WRE|bash| -[Conroy_Bumpus]- BYE21:20
@WRE|bash| <FoXeh> The most dangerous thing in the world is a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass21:20
@WRE|bash| <FoXeh> Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a collision.21:20
@WRE|bash| <FoXeh> Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.21:20
@WRE|bash| <FoXeh> Americans: This is the Captain of a US Navy ship. I say again, divert YOUR course.21:20
@WRE|bash| <FoXeh> Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR course.21:20
@WRE|bash| <FoXeh> Canadians: This is a lighthouse. Your call.21:20
@WRE|bash 124804| <Sopabuena> I will name my children after my testicles21:20
@WRE|bash 124804| <Sopabuena> Left and Right21:20
@WRE|bash 124804| <GreenJeanz> .........21:20
@WRE|bash 124804| <Mort> I don't think 'small' and 'smaller' are very good names.21:20
-!- pbmdawg was kicked from #webgui by snapcount [violence is not the answer]21:20
-!- pbmdawg [n=SysAdmin@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui21:21
@snapcountwhere did you go?21:21
-!- mode/#webgui [+o pbmdawg] by WRE21:21
@snapcountuh oh21:21
-!- mode/#webgui [-o snapcount] by pbmdawg21:21
-!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by WRE21:21
-!- pbmdawg was kicked from #webgui by snapcount [not so fast]21:21
-!- mode/#webgui [+i] by snapcount21:22
-!- mode/#webgui [-i] by snapcount21:22
@crythiaslighthouse. your call21:23
@crythiasold joke.21:23
@crythiasguess he left21:24
@snapcountI privmsged him21:24
@crythiasI tried to /invite21:24
-!- mode/#webgui [+i] by crythias21:28
-!- mode/#webgui [-i] by crythias21:28
@snapcountanyone care to help test wre for fc421:31
* snapcount throws a bucket of water on terje21:32
@snapcountmatt has put me on the ignore list21:38
* snapcount is ignored21:38
@snapcountcrythias, how bout it21:38
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@snapcounthe's bizack21:39
@snapcountdo you have fc4 installed matt21:39
@snapcountwanna help test21:39
@snapcountis that a no to both questions21:39
@snapcountor one no with strong emphasis to one of the questions21:40
-!- snapcount was kicked from #webgui by snapcount [play nice with others]21:40
-!- snapcount [n=roy@] has joined #webgui21:40
-!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by WRE21:41
@snapcountwell fiddlesticks21:41
pbmdawgbuh roring21:44
@snapcountwhere should I stick this file21:53
@snapcountif you say up my ass21:53
@snapcountit would be funny21:53
@snapcountwhere should I put it so peeps can dl and test21:53
@snapcountyeah but21:53
@snapcountI wanna make sure it works first21:54
pbmdawgwhy; we release untested broken stuff all the time21:54
@snapcountI guess my testing must suffice21:54
@snapcountTHE HNIC22:05
@snapcountMA GRILL22:06
@crythiascalc urinecakes22:09
@WREurinecakes = <crythias> That's not belly lint, that's urine cakes.22:09
@snapcounthas anyone ever seen nuba speak?22:10
@crythiasI'm sorry. energy radio is probably my favorite feed ever.22:11
@crythiasheh. Best way to stop people shorting your stock is to post a profit.22:13
@snapcountnuba: you're there22:14
@snapcountjust wondering22:14
@snapcountcrythias: you're failing to make sense again22:15
@crythiascomment posted to http://news.com.com/2100-1038-6045466.html?tag=tb22:15
@WRE<crythias> http://tinyurl.com/zjjk422:15
nubasnapcount: yes22:15
@crythiasson is complaining about short sellers of Overstock.com stock.22:15
@crythiascommenter says They won't do it if they post a profit.22:16
pbmdawgshort over stock stock22:16
@snapcountdon't overstock on overstock stock especially if overstock stock is selling short22:17
@WRE<crythias> http://tinyurl.com/em3re22:17
nubasnapcount: sup ?22:27
@snapcountI'm building a new wre right now22:28
@crythiasdunno. not making sense.22:31
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@snapcountcalc wouter23:07
@WREwouter = <crythias> so. is it pronounced like wooter or router?23:07
wouter_procolixHi math23:07
wouter_procolixWell, some dutch people pronounce router like wooter, so that's a different question :-)23:08
wouter_procolixBut I guess it's like router :-)23:08
pbmdawgor like water23:08
pbmdawgor wuuter, as massachusets people pronounce "water"23:08
wouter_procolixHey, I have a WebGUI question:23:09
wouter_procolixabout the uploadsHandler23:09
wouter_procolixIs it always called in current WebGUI versions, or is there an option for it...23:10
pbmdawg6.8.x ?23:10
wouter_procolixSVN version.23:10
wouter_procolixHmm, the question also for 6.8.7...23:11
wouter_procolixBecause some of our websites has problems with file permissions since it's upgraded to 6.8.7 yesterday.23:11
@snapcountfrom what?23:11
@snapcountwhat version were you at before?23:11
wouter_procolixHm, good question... I guess 6.5 or something like that... I'm not sure. I didn't do it myself.23:12
@snapcountIt's not optional anymore afaik23:12
@snapcountit was in that version though23:12
pbmdawgit's probably a rewriting problem.23:12
wouter_procolixI changed the permissions using "Edit branch" but the .wgaccess files were not updated accordingly.23:13
wouter_procolixAlso manual editing didn't work. So the images are still not visible :-(23:13
@snapcountthey won't be23:13
pbmdawgknown bug23:13
@snapcountevery time you edit a file23:13
wouter_procolixKnown solution??23:13
@snapcountit gets copied23:13
@snapcountand hence a new .wgaccess23:13
@snapcountthe files are being versioned23:14
@snapcountbut it's fucked up23:14
wouter_procolixYikes.. So no quick fix probably...23:14
@snapcountno.. colin and I worked on this for a while23:14
pbmdawgoh, I added a flag parameter to getFiles that gets all the files, including .wgaccess ones23:14
wouter_procolixWhat's getFiles?23:15
pbmdawgjust thought I'd throw that out there23:15
wouter_procolixmaybe a script to modify all .wgaccess files will do as a quick & dirty solution in this case.23:17
wouter_procolixBut I still don't understand the uploadsHandler (in SVN vesion)... I added some warn() statements in the uploadsHandler (between Session->open and $session->close), but nothing shows up in the webgui log when I access a file from the uploads directory.23:19
pbmdawgthen 6.8.7 was upgraded/installed incorrectly23:22
@snapcountwhere does apache get it's path when it runs something like preload.perl23:44
@snapcountthe bastard is using the wrong perl23:45
wouter_procolixAre you referring to the uploadsHandler problem??23:47
@snapcountI'm off on my own little tangent here23:47
wouter_procolixokay, phew...23:47
wouter_procolixthan bastard != me :-)23:48
@snapcountoh no23:48
@snapcountbastard == apache23:48
wouter_procolixYeah, I guessed ;-)23:48
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--- Day changed Sat Mar 04 2006
wouter_procolixOkay, another bug... Adding new subscriptions throws an error. I traced it to this line:00:02
wouter_procolix(well, that's part of the line).00:03
wouter_procolix$sessions seems fine at this point in the code00:03
wouter_procolixSo it must be in recurringPeriodValues I guess.00:03
@WRE<wouter_procolix> http://tinyurl.com/s7lz600:03
wouter_procolixThen something happens with "Tie::IxHash" but I have no idea what that is or how it works. Can someone take a quick look at the function?00:04
wouter_procolixIt's only 10-15 lines and might be just a stupid typo or something like that...00:04
wouter_procolixOh, by the way, the error is as follows:00:05
wouter_procolixCouldn't execute operation : WebGUI::Operation::Subscription::www_editSubscription. Root cause: Can't locate object method "user" via package "WebGUI::Commerce::Payment" at .../WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/International.pm line 78.00:06
@snapcountI was trying to figure this out yesterday00:06
@snapcountit's breaking my wobject00:06
@snapcountmy guess is that it's a call to the user object of session somewhere00:06
wouter_procolixIn www_editSubscription is a call to $session->user->isInGroup() but that works fine...00:08
wouter_procolixWebGUI::International->new($session, 'Commerce');00:10
@snapcountwhat line of what file are you talking about?00:10
wouter_procolixThat's in Paymet.pm (link a few lines above00:10
wouter_procolixI still have difficulties with understanding how way Perl works....00:11
wouter_procolixWhat's the first argument ($_) in the function new, if it's called like above?00:11
wouter_procolix$session? or $class?00:11
wouter_procolixBecause in Internationalization.pm:00:11
wouter_procolixsub new {00:11
wouter_procolixmy ($class, $session, $namespace, $language) = @_;00:11
@snapcountthe way it's called above, $class will be equal to the part before the method00:13
wouter_procolixOkay, then this seems wrong:00:13
wouter_procolixBecause in Payment.pm:00:14
wouter_procolixsub recurringPeriodValues {00:14
wouter_procolixmy ($session) = @_;00:14
wouter_procolixSo the first argument will be "WebGUI::Commerce::Payment" , isnt' it?00:14
@snapcounttry changing that to shift00:14
@snapcountmy $session = shift;00:14
wouter_procolixNope, that doesn't solve the problem :-(00:15
wouter_procolixBut it still looks wrong to me.00:16
@snapcountit is wrong00:16
@snapcountyou can't do it like that00:16
wouter_procolixAH, I think I've got it.00:17
wouter_procolixI changed it like this:00:17
wouter_procolixsub recurringPeriodValues{00:17
@snapcountit has to be WebGUI::Commerce::Payment->new($session)->recurringPeriodValues;00:17
wouter_procolixmy $class = shift;00:17
wouter_procolixmy $session = shift;00:17
wouter_procolixAnd you're solution does make even more sense :-)00:18
@snapcountunless WebGUI::Commerce::Payment->recurringPayment is a constructor00:18
@snapcountthat won't work00:18
@snapcountthe other way to do it would be00:18
@snapcountmy $payment = WebGUI::Commerce::Payment->new($session);00:19
@snapcountperiod values00:19
@snapcountwhatever the method is00:19
wouter_procolixCouldn't execute operation : WebGUI::Operation::Subscription::www_editSubscription. Root cause: Can't locate object method "new" via package "WebGUI::Commerce::Payment"00:20
@snapcountthe constructor must be something else then00:21
wouter_procolix=head2 init ( namespace )00:21
wouter_procolixI'm not sure about that...00:22
@snapcountI'm wrong00:23
@snapcountthat's not a class method00:23
@snapcountit's a procedural method00:23
wouter_procolixSo than my original solution is fine?00:23
@snapcountthe class name is not passed to the function when it's procedural00:24
@snapcountit's just for scope resolution00:24
@snapcountThe problem is probably in i18n00:24
@snapcountlook at the changes made to the Payment i18n00:25
wouter_procolixThe strange thing is that it worked (or at least it seemed to work) with one shift before "$session = shift"00:26
wouter_procolixI looked at other occurences of "WebGUI::International->new($session [, namespace]) and they all were the same...00:26
wouter_procolixYes, I get a working form back, and no errors in the log file.00:27
@snapcountI'm no perl OO expert myself00:28
@snapcountso we should probably ask someone why that works00:28
@snapcountto make sure it's right00:28
wouter_procolixI'll ask Martin... I think he wrote the Commerce system or a big part of it.00:28
@snapcounthe would know00:29
wouter_procolixBesides that, he has a lot of Perl experience, so he'll understand it better :-)00:29
wouter_procolixI've a lot of experience in C/C++ and some other languages, but Perl is so much different...00:29
wouter_procolixBy the way, when saving the new subscription, I still get the "Can't call method "user"" error, but I'll take a look at that later...00:30
wouter_procolixEither this was no good solution, or there is another bug.00:31
wouter_procolixSo I'm gonna stop working now.. I'll mail Martin about this problem. But thanks for the help. It's very helpful to talk about this stuff, IMHO.00:32
@snapcountI agree00:32
wouter_procolixokay, see you later than :-)00:32
terjehey snapcount00:33
wouter_procolixPS: Dag Ian :p00:33
terjejust checking ing..00:33
terjeerr, in.00:33
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terjeanything test-worthy?00:33
@snapcountI'm having issues00:33
terjecool mon00:33
terjeProlly Monday then..00:34
@snapcountprolly this weekend00:34
@snapcountbut by monday for sure00:34
@snapcountmy laptop sucketh00:34
@snapcountso compiling and recompiling is slow00:34
terjehonestly though I have a box you can use if you like.00:34
terjeIt's pretty speedy.00:34
terjeand it's got a fresh copy of FC4 on it =) - just let me know.00:35
@snapcountthanks... I'm just about done now though00:35
@snapcountI'll keep that in mind00:35
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pbmdawgyou can compile it yourself if you want.  I did it on centos and I'm a linux newbie01:14
* terje terje be laazie01:24
terjeI did think about it but snap said he'd hook itup.01:24
pbmdawgI doubt he gets to it tonight; you might just go ahead and try it assuming you have the time01:39
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perlDreamerif Gerald will write POD for 5 WebGUI core files, he gets my vote06:04
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--- Log closed Sun Mar 05 00:53:49 2006
--- Log opened Sun Mar 05 00:58:14 2006
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-!- ServerMode/#webgui [+ns] by orwell.freenode.net00:58
-!- Irssi: #webgui: Total of 1 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 1 normal]00:58
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--- Log closed Sun Mar 05 01:06:24 2006
--- Log opened Sun Mar 05 01:11:25 2006
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-!- Irssi: #webgui: Total of 3 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 3 normal]01:11
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pbmdawgterje: could you exit the room so we can reset the channel and give someone ops02:24
pbmdawgchansen: also you?02:24
pbmdawgnuba: you too?02:24
snapcounteveryone out! =002:25
snapcountif everyone but wre leaves he will cycle the channel automagically02:25
pbmdawggood for him02:25
snapcounthe's freaking amazazzzing02:26
pbmdawghe probably did that earlier, and then deoped himself or something02:26
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nubasup ?03:48
nubaoh, he left..03:48
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pbmdawgNO OPS04:09
perlDreameror in the case of my latest chip 5a5a5a5a04:09
perlDreamerthat would be two no-ops04:10
-!- snapcount [n=roy@user-0c6t351.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #webgui04:11
perlDreamercalc E-ROD04:12
WREE-ROD = Evil Release Overlord and Destructor04:12
perlDreamergreetings, Roy04:12
WREplone = lame04:12
WREconfusion = <pb_M-Train> DUDE this ROCKS but I'm not sure what to do with it.04:12
perlDreamernow that's funny04:13
perlDreameror rand isn't very rand-ish04:13
snapcountI see our effort to restore ops was a complete failure04:14
pbmdawgcalc papajohns sweet nectar of tomatos, cheese, and sugary dough with salty garlic yellow goo, and BACON, and pepper-ONI04:15
pbmdawgcalc papajohns04:15
WREpapajohns = sweet nectar of tomatos, cheese, and sugary dough with salty garlic yellow goo, and BACON, and pepper-ONI04:15
pbmdawgyeah no one left04:16
perlDreamerso if no one is OP, how does one get op'ed?04:16
snapcounteveryone has to leave04:17
snapcountand the channel will be cycled by wre04:17
snapcountwhich will give him ops04:17
snapcounthe in turn04:17
snapcountwill op us04:17
snapcountthus restoring order04:17
perlDreamerbut _everyone_ has to leave04:17
perlDreamereven xdanger the schizo bot/user dude?04:20
snapcountI'm going to resort to darker methods04:20
snapcountlet's try this04:20
pbmdawgroy: unblock me04:23
pbmdawgor suffer the consequences04:23
snapcountDCC SEND "byebyek" 0 0 004:24
pbmdawgcalc extort <pbmdawg>: in high school p.e. class, our "coach" took us all to the local bowling alley, and each day each person put a dollar to the winner's pot.  Guess who won every day?04:26
snapcountDCC SEND 01234568901234567804:26
snapcountthe exploits aren't working04:27
snapcountno one is vulnerable04:27
perlDreamer"I am invincible!"04:27
perlDreamername that movie04:27
pbmdawgof course04:28
perlDreamerprops to the representative from Kansas04:28
pbmdawgI used to say that all the time04:28
perlDreamerwhat happened to the Floridian quote-a-matic?04:28
snapcountI'm about to DDos those who are not complying04:28
snapcounthopefully none of them are sitting at a university somewhere w/ an OC4804:29
pbmdawgI think EV1 might shutter all our servers if you use those04:29
perlDreamerif you can get the lurkers to leave, I'll go too04:29
pbmdawgDIE DIE DIE lurklers04:30
snapcountI wouldn't do that04:30
snapcountI'm not insane04:30
snapcountI have other machines for such purposes04:30
snapcountDCC SEND "byebyek" 0 0 004:30
snapcountthis will take a little prep04:37
perlDreamery'all think these 17" displays are too big?04:37
snapcountjust so everyone knows04:37
snapcountthis is not malicious04:37
snapcountno harm intended04:37
snapcountyou will just fall off of freenode for a bit =)04:37
* snapcount prepares to save the day04:37
pbmdawghow is saving the day going04:58
snapcountI have to setup a few more bots04:58
snapcountit's going to be cool04:58
snapcountit might suck if they have a script to auto rejoin or something04:59
snapcountor a lot of bandwidth04:59
snapcountbut hey04:59
snapcountworth a shot04:59
pbmdawgAccidental Damage Protection (Except in Florida)05:03
pbmdawgyou can't get ADP in florida05:03
pbmdawgthrough dell05:04
pbmdawgyou can't but accidental damage protection05:04
pbmdawgoh well.05:23
pbmdawgit wasn't meant to be05:23
pbmdawg(with me here, tonight, at least)05:23
snapcountwhat's that05:23
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snapcounthe's going to miss the fun05:24
snapcountmy army is compiling as we speak05:24
perlDreamerwhat hackery are you brewing?05:47
perlDreamerand why didn't you use perl?05:47
perlDreamerstill here06:16
perlDreamerwhat's yrs?06:17
perlDreamerwhat does it mean?06:17
snapcountredneck for yes06:17
perlDreamerI didn't know that you spoke rednect.06:31
snapcountyou must learn at least one foreign language in college06:33
perlDreamerthat's not a foreign language, it's a dialect06:33
perlDreamerI mean, do you really think an oregon redneck and florida redneck could communicate with one another?06:33
perlDreameroh, sure.  there are commonalities, like tobacco spitting etiquette06:34
perlDreamermonster truck discussion06:34
perlDreamerand talk about how to sight in your new rifle06:34
perlDreamerbut how do they talk about swamp boats, or snow mobiles06:34
perlDreamerit just wouldn't work06:35
snapcountI think you're right06:35
perlDreamerare you about ready to nuke us?06:35
snapcountI couldn't make it work on one server06:35
snapcountI'm trying it on another one now06:36
-!- WRE1 [n=WRE1@67-58-211-247.amtelecom.net] has joined #WebGUI06:43
snapcountthere's one06:44
-!- WRE2 [n=WRE2@67-58-211-247.amtelecom.net] has joined #WebGUI06:48
snapcountwre counts as well06:48
snapcountso that's three06:48
snapcountI'm going to make one more06:48
perlDreamerso what's the strategy?06:48
snapcountthey all are connecting from the same host so I have to be carefull06:48
snapcountall the bots will ping them simultaneously06:49
snapcountwhen they attempt to reply to all of them06:49
snapcountirc will think they are flooding the channel06:49
snapcountand kick them06:49
snapcountI have to install the script that will cooridinate the ping06:50
perlDreamerand the channel gets cleared and you can be OP06:50
snapcountwell, when everyone is gone06:50
snapcountI will leave also with the bots06:50
snapcountthen when I join06:50
snapcountI'll have ops06:50
snapcountbasically I'll be creating the channel06:51
snapcountif it works06:51
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perlDreamer$#bots == $#people06:57
perlDreamerwe're about 12 files away from the test run being setup06:58
perlDreamerone small problem, though06:59
perlDreamerall mixin packages fail the POD test06:59
perlDreamereven though they have POD06:59
perlDreamerit's because their package namespace differs from the filename06:59
perlDreamerhaven't figured out a way around it yet07:00
perlDreamersounds like you're not having much luck either07:25
snapcountjust about ready07:26
perlDreamerI was preparing for Armageddon07:44
snapcountnot quite07:44
perlDreamerbut nothing is happening07:44
perlDreamerten files and counting, plus 8 mixins07:48
snapcountcut and past like 30 lines into the channel07:49
perlDreamer30 lines, okay07:49
snapcountyou'll prolly get kicked07:49
snapcountbut come back07:49
perlDreamerok 238 - WebGUI::Session::Style07:49
perlDreamerok 239 - WebGUI::Session::Url07:49
perlDreamerok 240 - WebGUI::Session::Var07:49
perlDreamerok 241 - WebGUI::Storage07:49
perlDreamerok 242 - WebGUI::Storage::Image07:49
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snapcountI think I loaded the wrong script07:49
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perlDreameryup, kicked07:50
snapcountwrong script then07:51
snapcountI'll continue this in the morning08:00
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-!- Irssi: #webgui: Total of 7 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 7 normal]15:07
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--- Log closed Sun Mar 05 15:08:23 2006
--- Log opened Mon Mar 06 14:14:44 2006
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--- Log closed Mon Mar 06 14:14:58 2006
--- Log opened Mon Mar 06 17:06:06 2006
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xdangernothing yet =(17:06
snapcountare'nt you on the chanserv as an op?17:06
snapcountyou registered the channel right?17:08
xdangerno i didn't17:12
snapcountI thought I saw freenode op you17:12
* snapcount shrugs17:12
xdangerthat was propably after a network split17:12
snapcountI tried registering the channel and someone has already17:12
-!- crythias [n=gyoung@] has joined #webgui17:23
* snapcount puts17:24
snapcountyou don't have to leave17:24
-!- snapcount changed the topic of #WebGUI to: nevermind, we gave up17:24
crythiasputs, putts, pouts?17:24
crythiasstats p not working in gaim17:24
crythiasno /who either17:24
snapcountdamn idlers17:25
crythiasum. yeah17:25
snapcountI'm going to set the bot to start kicking them17:25
crythiasxdanger disappeared17:25
snapcountso this doesn't happen again17:25
snapcountI'm kind of grumpy17:26
snapcountwe lost a pretty important server last night17:26
snapcounttwas a late night17:26
crythiasoh? ick.17:26
snapcounthad to buy a new server17:26
snapcountthe one that died17:26
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snapcounthosted about 80 sites and our primary dns17:27
crythiasI've been warned that my traffic was too much on my free host.17:27
crythiasack! ack! ack!17:27
snapcountit sucked hard17:27
snapcounthi bear17:27
snapcountfor some reason libapreq is using the wrong perl17:28
snapcountI'm so close to having this fc4 wre17:28
crythiassanpcount: http://freenode.net/group_registration.shtml17:29
WRE<crythias> http://tinyurl.com/7yvxk17:29
crythiasI think it's time to check it out.17:29
xdangerBearPerson is a freenode staffer, and could help us get ops back17:29
snapcountthanks x17:29
BearPersonI'm not sure if you'd quite qualify for primary group, let me see17:29
snapcountwe usually have more peeps17:30
BearPersondoes any of you run/own something called "webgui" ?17:30
snapcountthey all left b/c we're trying to cycle the channel17:30
snapcountI work for Plainblack17:30
snapcountthe comapany that makes WebGUI17:30
crythiashttp://www.plainblack.com/staff snapcount is roy johnson17:31
crythiasI'm a volunteer.17:31
* snapcount dcc's some dna to BearPerson =)17:31
BearPersonokay, looking good so far then17:31
BearPersonyeah, http://freenode.net/group_registration.shtml it will be then17:33
WRE<BearPerson> http://tinyurl.com/7yvxk17:33
snapcountI need to read through this?17:33
BearPersonhow high op the food chain can we get someone to fill out an approving group form for one of the people in here?17:33
BearPersonyeah, would help 8-)17:34
crythiasProbably JT17:34
snapcountI'm in charge or all our community stuff17:34
snapcountbut I could get my boss to do it17:34
snapcounthe owns the company17:34
BearPersonthat'll work 8-)17:34
snapcountso after we fill this out17:34
snapcountwe'll have ops again =)17:34
BearPersonif you could get him to fill out one form as "approving contact" and you fill one out as "being approved" with his name in the "approved by", we should be fine17:35
snapcountok cool17:35
snapcountappreciate the help17:35
snapcounthe's still sleeping b/c of last nights server episode, so we'll have to wait a bit17:40
xdangerwhat kind of episode ?-)17:40
snapcountcomplete hardware failure17:41
snapcountprimary dns17:41
snapcountabout 80 sites17:41
snapcountwe got it back up pretty fast17:41
chansencrythias: you called?17:42
snapcountnobody has ops17:42
crythiasyeah, that17:42
chansenwho need ops? ;P17:42
snapcountwe were trying to get everyone to leave so we could cycle the channel17:42
xdangerthose are nice... especially sunday evenings =)17:42
snapcountxdanger: no doubt17:42
snapcountI was just about to crawl into bed17:43
snapcountand my phone starts going off with messages from the server17:43
snapcount'help me, I'm dying'17:43
chansencat FreeNode provide some assistant?17:43
crythiasyeah but it's paperwork :)17:43
snapcountBearPerson is a fn staffer17:43
snapcountwe're going to register the channel17:44
snapcountbut we have to wait for JT to wake up17:44
chansenit's kind of rude to ask people to leave, and even worse, cursing them.17:45
xdangerhey, I actually have a question about wg... Is anyone doing anything to tempalate pagination ?17:46
snapcounttemplate it how?17:48
snapcountso the links are templatable you mean17:49
xdangeryes... We have a "multilingual" site that has event calendars on every language and "Previous 6 months - Next 6 months"17:50
xdangerIt would also be nice to have CS with out >> or << marks..17:50
-!- pbmdawg [n=SysAdmin@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui17:51
snapcounthey matt17:51
pbmdawghey drivel-tongue17:51
xdangersomeone could bread down the pagination.nextPage variable to pagination.nextPageUrl .nextPageText or something like that17:52
snapcountdo you have perl skillz?17:54
xdangerlittle hacking now and then...17:54
snapcountwell, if you want to implement it using 6.9917:54
snapcountyou can submit your patch to the dev list17:54
snapcountand we could get it in 717:55
snapcountI'll answer questions and stuff17:55
xdangerThere was some talks about convertion pagination to utility asset ?17:55
snapcountbut I don't have time to do it myself17:55
snapcountI never heard that discussion17:55
xdangerrfe 122946617:55
xdangersnapcount: http://tinyurl.com/zw5gy17:56
snapcountthat looks like matt's baby17:58
pbmdawgmore like my tarbaby17:59
pbmdawgoh wait, that's the calendar.17:59
snapcountdid you ever run this idea by JT?17:59
snapcountxdanger: I would suggest posting to the dev list referencing the rfe18:00
snapcountif you're willing to try and implement it18:00
snapcountmake sure you state the end goal18:00
snapcountas JT may no like the proposed implementation18:00
snapcountbut he will suggest alternatives18:01
snapcountif you tell him what you're trying to accomplish18:01
xdangerpagination is just about the last thing in webgui that hasn't been templated =)18:02
snapcountI agree18:02
snapcountI think it would be cool18:02
snapcountyou better do it fast though... in about two months no new features are going in for quite some time18:03
snapcountnow is the time to do it18:03
pbmdawgnot quite the last thing.18:03
pbmdawgthe form controls are not templatable (programmatically)18:03
pbmdawgnor is the edit profile screen.18:03
pbmdawgnor is the admin console (enough)18:03
xdangerpbmdawg: you remember this:18:04
xdanger15:46 <@xdanger> since we're using mod_perl2 shouldn't we use something like $r->filename($storage->getPath($self->get("filename"))); return Apache2::Const::DECLINED;   instead of redirect ?18:04
xdangerhave you given it any thougts ?18:04
xdangerI just realized since storage is versioned with the changes to the asset, the files "real url" changes...18:05
xdangerthis could be a bad thing for linking or search engines18:05
xdangerit you do that passthru apache the url would be always the same but you could still version the storage locations...18:06
* pbmdawg is too busy to reply atm18:06
-!- crythia1 [n=gyoung@] has joined #webgui18:10
-!- crythias [n=gyoung@] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]18:10
terjemorning all19:32
terjehey snapcount - how's the FC4 binary?19:33
terjeI'll check site..19:33
snapcountI'm troubleshooting a problem with libapreq19:36
terjeah ok..19:39
crythia1seems reasonable that all but nuba could leave and come back?20:11
BearPersonthe problem is timing it right20:11
crythia1got nuba.20:13
nubai can leave & join later if need20:13
snapcountI emailed JT about the group reg20:13
crythia1kill your bot, though, snapcount20:13
nubanevetheless, this is a very lame way of handling the channel20:14
-!- WRE [n=WRE@67-58-211-247.amtelecom.net] has quit ["snapcount"]20:14
crythia1yeahbut we're fixing it.20:14
crythia1long term20:14
crythia1just short term is an issue.20:14
crythia1by we I mean not me20:14
-!- crythia1 is now known as crythias20:15
snapcountat least we don't have 40 people in here20:15
pbmdawgfollow my lead20:15
-!- pbmdawg [n=SysAdmin@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has left #webgui []20:15
nubayeah that'd be rediculous20:15
nubaok there we go20:15
BearPersonif you have any short-term issues I think I can cover20:15
-!- nuba [i=nuba@zaxxon.telerama.com] has left #webgui []20:15
snapcountso are we all leaving now?20:16
snapcountis that the plan20:16
crythiasonly if we can catch chansen20:16
crythiasand terje20:16
crythiasand xdanger20:16
-!- nuba [i=nuba@zaxxon.telerama.com] has joined #webgui20:16
snapcountthis will make a great story one day20:16
BearPersonanything immediate you need channel registration/ops for?20:17
BearPersonnuba, you're not identified to nickserv by the way20:17
BearPersonI mean, we could just run the channel opless until we can get the group thing covered20:17
snapcountBearPerson: not really... just piece of mind and that special feeling you get with an @ next to your nic20:18
nubaBearPerson: just id'ed20:18
BearPersonand in case anything happens where we do need staff, I'll do my best to find some with whatever powers we need20:18
BearPersonhttp://freenode.net/channel_guidelines.shtml (second bullet) ;-)20:18
nubaso, should people go to #webgui-waiting room or stay here ?20:19
crythiasexcept, we're kinda ok with those who have ops.20:19
crythiasbut I like channel access list thing20:19
nubacome on, can one of the op-less ops herd us ? ;)20:19
BearPersonwell, you'll get the channel registration in the long run anyway20:20
snapcountI'm not a very good channel op20:21
snapcountI think I've broken just about every rule in that link20:21
BearPersonyou can always learn :P20:22
BearPersonthat page is just guidelines from freenode20:22
BearPersonthe things we found that tend to make channels nice and productive20:23
crythiasI think we need to have a vi vs. emacs war, here.20:23
crythiasbecause we all know that notepad rocks.20:23
nubabah i guess a fckedirot vs tinymce vs htmlarea would be more related to #webgui20:26
snapcountfreenode seems like a socialist kinda place which is odd compared to most irc networks20:27
snapcounttake Efnet for example20:27
BearPersonthanks :-)20:27
snapcount"remember...it's just irc.  we don't care"20:27
BearPersonwe try to not be "IRC" :)20:27
snapcounti see20:27
snapcountfunny thing is when matt created this channel, he just randomly picked the network20:28
snapcountit's nice you guys give a crap20:28
BearPersonwe may just be a bit complicated about all this group stuff20:28
BearPersoncompare http://freenode.net/policy.shtml#ontopic - we actually care what the channels on our networks are about ;-)20:29
snapcountwe fit #120:30
snapcountwoo hoo20:30
snapcountwe can stay!20:30
BearPersonfreenode is all about providing a communication medium for groups that already exist outside of IRC20:32
BearPersonI sometimes think of it as the friendly playground where all the children from the block can come to play vs. the ruined playground where the junkies gather and hang out 8-)20:33
BearPersonwe're not really about forming groups on IRC (think warez/clan/gaming channels)20:34
BearPersonwe're currently writing something about that on http://freenode.net/humans.shtml20:36
BearPersonI guess the "meta-community" part is what I'm trying to say20:36
snapcountI get it now20:37
snapcountit's a cool idea20:37
snapcountfunny how we've just kinda been here and never bothered to read any of this stuff20:37
snapcountI'm sure you get a lot of that20:38
crythiasactually, I chose it, cause it was default in gaim.20:44
snapcountmy bad20:44
snapcountI thought it was matt20:44
crythiasit was a collab. Colin had issues with direct IM. probably talked with Matt about it. I got involved in an issue, and created #webgui.20:45
crythiasbut the idea was Colin's and Matt's originally.20:46
BearPersoninteresting... a client where we are default ;-)20:46
BearPersonwe were removed from irssi's server list because they thought us not IRCish enough20:46
nubaoh i tried joining #webgui on freenode a few times before it came to actually exist. saw nobody, then left...20:46
BearPersonand requested to be taken off the mirc list to make less of a target for spambots20:47
nubasame thing on irc.perl.org20:47
crythiaswell, part of #webgui's staying power has been some lurker/op holders. Some of it has just been increased (I believe) productivitiy among those who participate, and then there's just me.20:48
-!- snapcount changed the topic of #WebGUI to: We don't need no stinkin' ops!20:49
crythiasproductivity wrt working out bugs in the project20:49
snapcountyou said the 'b' word20:49
crythiasum.. undocumented features, sorry.20:49
crythiasbut we do diversify somewhat. it's not all perl...20:51
crythiaswe go offtopic some times. issat bad?20:51
crythiassometimes we just need to de-stress20:52
-!- pbmdawg [n=SysAdmin@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui20:52
crythiasguess we gotta stop with the LICNSTAG20:52
pbmdawgwhy is that20:52
crythiasOff-topic activity may result in users being   barred from the network.20:53
pbmdawgthat would be a good movie title.  ("off topic")20:54
crythiasNo more NICERUG20:54
snapcountcrythias: don't make me come over there20:55
snapcountdid you read the whole paragraph?20:55
crythiasvarious forms of antisocial behavior20:55
snapcountif we're channeling goatse images we could get banned20:55
pbmdawgthat means dubya is illegal too20:56
snapcountthat's just the facts20:56
snapcounthe said20:56
pbmdawgpolitical invective20:56
pbmdawgpr0n is "just the facts" too20:56
snapcountthere is nothing derogotary20:56
snapcountit's left to the user to interpret20:56
snapcount(I know you're right btw)20:57
crythias"I don't know much about pr0n, but I know what I like."20:57
snapcountwe may be too wild and unorthodoxed for freenode20:57
* pbmdawg dances with some hax0r activity20:57
crythiasbut hardly even know 0r20:59
* pbmdawg install IIS 2.0 on his unfirewalled pc.20:59
crythiasbecause ?21:00
snapcountwell, at least you guys are reading the rules21:01
BearPersonwell, being a bit off-topic on channel is okay21:01
BearPersonthis is still your channel, meant so yau can communicate, develop social skills, and socialize :)21:02
crythiaswith respect to freenode ops, if we've tacitly agreed to the content amongst the few of us (and it's not illegal), we'd generally be ok, right?21:02
snapcountnotice he mentioned *develop social skillz*21:02
* crythias smacks snapcount with a trout. 21:03
crythiassmells like fish...21:03
* snapcount punches crythias in the arm, "punch buggy green no punch back!"21:03
* pbmdawg wipes his mouth with an empty doritos bag.21:03
-!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat089.mxim.com] has joined #webgui21:03
* crythias rubs his arm.21:03
crythiasI'm tellin' mom!21:03
pbmdawgBearPerson = Colin ?21:04
BearPersonwithout complaints, we don't do anything at all usually :-)21:04
perlDreamerNo, I'm clothed thank you21:04
snapcountperlDreamer == colin21:04
* crythias roflol21:04
* crythias picks up bits of dorito crumbs in his shirt.21:05
snapcountsorry it took me a while to get that one21:05
perlDreamersnapcount: your plan to take over the world did not come to fruition21:05
* pbmdawg sneezes a pygmy elephant.21:05
crythiasgotta vacuum before I do that rolling.21:05
* crythias rolls his own.21:05
* pbmdawg brings his own21:05
crythiasewww ...21:05
pbmdawghum.  carpet carpet.21:06
perlDreamerso what's the hot hacking topic of the day?21:06
pbmdawgI think we need a FOSS project named Loogie so I can say I'm hacking a Loogie.21:07
pbmdawgand so roy can say, "I'm compiling my Loogie"21:08
pbmdawgand so colin can say, "I'm documenting my loogie"21:08
crythiasand gerald can say, "why can't we use a different loogie?"21:09
nubaand I lurk21:09
crythiasa lurker in the loogie21:09
* pbmdawg branches Loogie to a new project: Lung21:09
pbmdawgforks, rather.21:10
crythiasfork up a loung21:10
crythiastoejam and lungbutter.com21:11
crythiaslungbutter.com has been taken21:12
-!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui21:13
crythiashair greases, toejam, and lungbutter.21:13
crythiasahh yeah.21:13
* MrHairgrease feels like misbehaving!21:14
MrHairgreaseTry to kick me21:14
* BearPerson quietly points to /stats p21:14
crythiasclient doesn't like /stats p21:14
MrHairgreaseno such command21:15
BearPersonplease don't misbehave 8-)21:15
crythias"That command doesn't work on this protocol"21:15
BearPerson/quote stats p21:15
MrHairgreaseyou all suck c21:15
MrHairgreaseoh ok21:15
BearPersonhmm, gaim does not like it21:15
crythiasit's true21:15
BearPerson(1141672523 20:15) [freenode] -!- p BearPerson (i=karsten@sourcemage/wizard/pdpc.bronze.BearPerson)21:15
BearPerson(1141672523 20:15) [freenode] -!- p spb (n=spb@gentoo/developer/spb)21:15
BearPerson*hint* *hint*21:15
BearPerson(1141672523 20:15) [freenode] -!- p 2 staff members21:15
crythiasHe's cool, though.21:15
MrHairgreaseI do not understand21:15
MrHairgreaseIt must be monday21:16
pbmdawgwe've been visited by an angel21:16
MrHairgreasewhen you were drunk this weekend?21:16
BearPersonin other words, yes, you can misbehave, no, there's no channel ops here, BUT a freenode (firstlevel) staffer is :P21:16
pbmdawgit's a weekend?21:16
* MrHairgrease shuts up21:16
BearPerson"can" meaning "I won't be able to stop you... for a while :P"21:16
crythiasbut don't kick him :)21:17
MrHairgreasedo I hear evil laughter?21:17
MrHairgreaseyou can kick me21:17
MrHairgreasejust don't ban 21:17
BearPersonhow about quiet? ;-)21:17
* MrHairgrease .....21:17
BearPersonnah, let's leave the subject :)21:18
BearPersonI don't really like waving priviliges around21:18
MrHairgreaseso how's it going on the coding front?21:18
* BearPerson sits back again and grabs the popcorn21:18
MrHairgreasebearperson: do you also use webgui?21:19
crythiashe's not heard of it. he's just helping us regain channel ops21:20
crythiasby telling us, and by us I mean roy how to apply.21:21
MrHairgreasehow did we loose em anyway?21:21
MrHairgreaseevery op logged out?21:21
crythiasall ops left21:21
BearPersonwe do have channel registration stuff, but I guess that only got noticed after that ;-)21:23
crythiasI think I gotta change hosting providers.21:27
crythiasmy traffic went from 7mb/day to 200+mb/day21:27
crythiasand the free hoster says, pay up or lose connection.21:27
MrHairgreaseit's only a 2000+ % increase21:28
crythiasyeah. and no idea how or why.21:28
MrHairgreaseso I can imagine he says that21:28
crythiasI did pay up.21:28
MrHairgreaseYou dunno where the traffic comes from?21:28
crythiasno, and neither do they.21:29
MrHairgreasebut is it up or downstream?21:29
crythias*shrug* it's traffic.21:29
crythiasbut most likely from my site to someone.21:30
crythiasbut without logs, I don't know.21:30
MrHairgreaseyour website21:30
MrHairgreaseI thought you meant your work or home connection21:30
MrHairgreasemy mistake21:30
crythiasand I don't see the hits that would cause it.21:30
MrHairgrease200 mb per day is not that much21:30
crythiaswell, no, but my free host: doteasy.com allows 1gb/month traffic.21:31
MrHairgreaseoh ok21:31
crythiasI paid $18 in an emergency for traffic.21:31
MrHairgreasei see21:31
MrHairgreasewhy don't you have logs?21:31
crythiasI don't host.,21:32
crythiasI host gwy2.org, but I don't have anything but ftp access to gwy.org21:32
MrHairgreasei see21:33
crythias so. I'm looking at $7.95/month for gwy.org and large traffic21:35
crythiaswhich I can swing, ... I think I will go with www.bluehost.com21:36
MrHairgreaseI've podded the SQLForm today21:36
MrHairgreaseso it's one step closer to inclusion in the core21:37
crythiasyee haq21:37
MrHairgreasesomebody here used it already?21:37
crythiaspnut butter, jelly.22:25
snapcountwe need to up crythias' meds22:28
crythiasah yeah22:30
* crythias zips up in a banana costume...22:30
* crythias gets out the maracas22:30
* crythias looks blankly into a camera ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmWoVkhXI3o&search=peanut%20butter%20jelly22:31
-!- snapcount [n=roy@] has quit ["www.snapcount.org"]22:32
-!- snapcount [n=roy@] has joined #webgui22:32
crythiaskeycapture on22:32
perlDreamercalc E-ROD22:33
crythiasno wre22:33
pbmdawgcrythias: is that your kid?22:33
snapcountso, /quit and /part really are different22:33
crythiasnot at all22:33
crythiasI have a 2 year old. that's it.22:33
snapcountI have a 4 month old22:33
crythiasisn't that video stupid funny?22:33
pbmdawgyou and your kydeeprn.............22:34
crythiasthat's enough of that.22:34
crythiasthbbpt :)22:34
pbmdawgalright alright22:34
pbmdawghey yours looks like mine22:35
snapcountshe practices islam22:35
snapcountI miss tinyurl22:36
perlDreamerI don't22:36
snapcountyou'rs is human22:36
crythiasso they tell me :)22:36
snapcountcalc spelling22:37
snapcountthat last pic is a little explicit22:37
pbmdawgyeah, he's a boy22:37
pbmdawgyou can see his neutering scars22:37
snapcountdon't they have to be at least 3 (21 doggy years) before you can put those pics on the net22:38
pbmdawghis tail is docked also22:38
perlDreamertone it down a little will you, I'm trying to eat lunch22:38
pbmdawghis ears are clipped too22:38
pbmdawgand his thumbs are removed22:38
pbmdawgbut they call them dewclaws.22:38
snapcountcan he stand on his tail stub?22:38
pbmdawgplus, he had 4 teeth surgically removed22:38
perlDreamerno wonder he's so small22:38
snapcountyou might as well had a kid22:38
pbmdawghe's a highly modified stock model22:39
snapcountjust as expensive22:39
pbmdawgbetter believe it22:39
perlDreamerand fewer chewed on electronics22:39
* pbmdawg gets to work on the core this week.22:39
snapcountwelcome back wre22:39
-!- WRE [n=WRE@67-58-211-247.amtelecom.net] has joined #WebGUI22:39
snapcountcalc spelling22:39
perlDreamercalc E-ROD22:40
WREspelling = Bad spelers of the world untie22:40
WREE-ROD = Evil Release Overlord and Destructor22:40
WREfoo = foobar22:40
WREconfusion = <pb_M-Train> DUDE this ROCKS but I'm not sure what to do with it.22:40
snapcounteasy easy22:40
snapcounthe just got back22:40
perlDreamercalc godfather22:40
WRENo calc set for "godfather"22:40
pbmdawgcalc nezir22:40
WRENo calc set for "nezir"22:40
perlDreamercalc jt22:40
WRENo calc set for "jt"22:40
snapcountcalc rizen22:40
WRErizen = The Godfather22:40
pbmdawgcalc papajohns22:40
WREpapajohns = sweet nectar of tomatos, cheese, and sugary dough with salty garlic yellow goo, and BACON, and pepper-ONI22:40
pbmdawgcalc mamajohns22:41
WRENo calc set for "mamajohns"22:41
snapcountyou guys are bored22:41
* pbmdawg jigs a dance22:41
snapcountwhen we restore ops22:41
* perlDreamer rigs a jig22:41
snapcountwe should op everyone to celebrate22:41
perlDreamerwhat's "celebrate"?22:42
BearPersonif you guys need anything that needs +o on this channel, notify me or anyone on /stats p22:42
snapcountwill do22:44
WREHi Everyone22:45
perlDreamerit talks?22:46
perlDreamercalc E-ROD22:46
WREE-ROD = Evil Release Overlord and Destructor22:46
WREWhat's new with WebGUI22:46
perlDreamerthe events calendar is broken22:46
perlDreamer6.9 is still months away22:46
WREYes, Colin... I can talk.  I know much about your kind.22:46
perlDreamer6.8 bugs are accumulating22:46
perlDreamerand crythias is transfixed by PB&J's22:47
perlDreamerwhat's new out in cyberspace?22:47
WREThere are many worms, viri, and trojans22:48
WREit's a very dangerous place to be nowadays22:48
* WRE gets jiggy wit it22:51
WRE<crythias> http://tinyurl.com/q72hk22:52
pbmdawgthose are serious injuries22:52
WREone over two pi times the square root of inductance times capacitance22:53
crythiascurrently on digg ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37GVvxcyz6I&search=potato%20peel22:54
WRE<crythias> http://tinyurl.com/lvlm922:54
WRERoy told me there were some EE's in the crowd...?22:54
crythiasI thought about inductance once, but what the L22:54
WRECrythias++ tell him what he's won Roy...22:55
snapcounta new car!22:56
crythias... toon22:56
crythiasYou've just won a hundred grand....22:56
WRE<crythias> http://tinyurl.com/rzov422:57
WREI'm thinking about getting my hard-drives done, but I'm afraid I may not boot afterwards22:57
WREIt is a very hard choice to make22:57
WREThe 160 giggers are nice, but I don't want to get them *too* big23:00
perlDreamerare you thinking two or four?23:05
perlDreamerdefinitely RAID123:06
snapcountyour homepage is a little bland23:09
pbmdawgso spice it up23:09
* snapcount throws some sugar on veradox.com23:10
snapcountta da!23:10
snapcountpbmdawg: the webgui default login isn't working on your site23:19
perlDreamerthat isn't good23:19
snapcounthow are we supposed to upload pictures?23:20
snapcountand write articles?23:20
perlDreamerand add spice?23:20
snapcountyes, the spice23:20
crythiascome to think of it, why should I want to be on digg anyway?23:20
crythiasdigg + front page = Error 20050524-1. Can not connect to the database. Please contact i23:21
snapcountthey're not running webgui?23:22
perlDreamerwhat are they thinking23:22
snapcountguess they have to learn the hard way23:22
snapcountcrythias: what's up with the php photo album23:27
snapcountare you a commy?23:27
crythiasold stuff. pre qebgui23:28
snapcountah huh23:28
snapcountwhere exactly were you on the night of April 5, Mr. Anderson?23:28
crythiassame reason I don't have my faq in webgui format23:28
snapcountdo you guys have any ideas on how I can use my site to promote the community more?23:29
crythiaswhat community?23:30
snapcountI want it to be a place for things that are too of color for pb.com23:30
snapcountor too random23:30
snapcounta place for us to hang out kinda23:30
crythiasbecause we want a permanent storage place for our drivel (xdanger's log aside)?23:30
snapcountI don't know what we could use it for23:31
snapcountthat's why I'm asking23:31
snapcountis there any useful/fun/entertaining thing we could do with it23:31
snapcountI had one idea23:31
crythiaslive webgui bsod's23:32
snapcountI was thinking of letting people post blog type entries23:32
snapcountabout anything23:32
snapcountany thought, any idea23:32
snapcountwebgui or not23:32
snapcountwhat are these links?23:33
snapcountdo I have to actually *click* on this stuff23:33
snapcountc'mon guys23:33
crythiasbecause there aren't too many (myspace) other (blogspot) places (digg comments) to (blogger) do (livejournal) this (deadjournal).23:33
perlDreamerwe should do this stuff in an existing community place to let people learn about WebGUI23:34
perlDreamerinstead of creating our own little place23:34
crythiaswe could create a grou.ps ...23:34
xdangersomething not perl spesific..23:34
snapcountwell, it's not necessarily about promoting webgui23:34
snapcountit's about the people, the friendships, the things that happen23:35
snapcountmore like a hangout23:35
crythiaslike myspace only we don't want to hook up23:35
snapcountkinda like this room is 85% of the time23:35
MrHairgreasein that case it should be done with wg23:35
snapcountthat's what i'm saying23:35
pbmdawgroy: oh, you mean a place for booty calls23:35
snapcountI have a hosted site23:35
xdangerIf I had more money I would go and ha a drink with the dutch team =)23:35
snapcountI'm offering it up23:35
MrHairgreaseyou can drink a whole night on my costs23:36
crythiasyeah. I tried that www.ga-commenters.com23:36
MrHairgreaseyou just have to come to Holland23:36
snapcountwth is a ga-commenter23:36
crythiasgoogle answers.23:36
crythiasflash in the pan.23:36
snapcountso what do you guys think? stupid idea, pointless, anything?23:37
MrHairgreaseIt would be cool to have this community hangaout youth work thingy23:37
MrHairgreasebut I'm not quite sure what I would use it for23:37
snapcountI could prolly even convince JT to give us a site23:37
crythiaswe could take over pb.com/discuss/etc23:37
snapcountsepearate from mine23:37
MrHairgreasebut until you try you don't know23:37
snapcountif that would be better23:37
MrHairgreaseIf JT doesn't want to23:38
crythiasI'm not interested.23:38
MrHairgreaseProcolix can offer a site23:38
snapcountok... let's take a quick vote23:38
snapcountquestion is23:38
snapcountis there any interest in having a webgui hangout site23:39
snapcountwith yet to be determined content and purpose23:39
crythiasIf I want self immolation (sp?) I'll post on my own website23:39
* MrHairgrease votes blanco23:39
snapcountwtf does that mean?23:39
snapcountno = 123:40
snapcountneutered = 123:40
MrHairgreaseIt is dutch for I don't have an opion and my vote will be added to the minority23:40
snapcountyes = 023:40
snapcountoh ok23:40
snapcountso it's 1:123:40
snapcountwell yes is the minority23:40
MrHairgreaseyou can only decide that afterwards23:40
crythiasI don't need 3 places to discuss wg. or make that 4 or 523:41
pbmdawgwhat if blanco is the majority23:41
snapcountyou don't get it23:41
snapcountit's not about discussing webgui23:41
MrHairgreaseit cannot be the majority23:41
snapcountit's a place for *us*23:41
MrHairgreaseonly us?23:41
MrHairgreasewhat about euroipeans =)23:41
snapcountothers are welcome23:41
* pbmdawg wants to join Roy's club23:42
snapcountthey just have to have similar interests23:42
crythiasyeah and what do us have in common besides being here?23:42
pbmdawgis it more of a gang or a club23:42
pbmdawgor a country club23:42
pbmdawgor a mafioso23:42
snapcounthacking, humor, current events, free software23:42
MrHairgreaseI don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members.23:42
MrHairgreaseGroucho Marx23:42
snapcountok, so you say 'yes' matt?23:43
snapcountwe can call it a gang if that makes you happy23:44
* crythias gets out his pink do-rag. shizzle's all 'bout dem colorz, yo.23:44
snapcountI need to teach wre to handle votes23:45
snapcountthat would be sweet23:45
crythias!vote no23:45
-!- crythias is now known as crythiastwin23:45
crythiastwin!vote no23:45
-!- crythiastwin is now known as crythiasothertwi23:46
crythiasothertwi!vote no23:46
MrHairgreasestop that23:46
* snapcount kicks crythias with shoe because ops are b0rk3d =P23:46
pbmdawgvote no23:46
-!- crythiasothertwi [n=gyoung@] has left #webgui []23:46
-!- crythiasothertwi [n=gyoung@] has joined #webgui23:46
snapcountit worked23:46
perlDreamersnapcount has the power23:47
snapcountperlDreamer: you said no?23:47
perlDreamerhaving a hard time seeing the utility23:47
snapcountso 3 no, 1 nuetered23:47
perlDreamerI'll be an inverse blanco and go with the majority23:48
* pbmdawg changes his vote to blanco23:48
snapcountwhich one?23:48
snapcountthe inverse or normal23:48
snapcountthe blanco or the inverted-blanco23:48
perlDreamerso blanco is the contrary vote.23:48
-!- crythiasothertwi is now known as crythias23:49
* pbmdawg changes his vote to ((crythias NAND perlDreamer) NOR MrHairgrease)23:49
perlDreamerand inverted blanco is the go-with-the-flow vote23:49
perlDreamerthat's the spanish vote23:49
snapcount((1 NAND 1) NOR (1))23:50
snapcount0 NOR 123:50
crythiasnor is a lame op23:50
pbmdawgb/c MrHairgrease's vote would then change23:50
crythiasdon't make me get out my kmaps23:51
* snapcount hurls a J/K Flip Flop at pbmdawg23:52
perlDreamerwatch out.23:52
perlDreamerhe can make you pee out your belly button....23:52
snapcountcalc urine23:52
WREurine = <pb_M-Train> Did you know that all humans can urinate through their navels?23:52
crythiasoh no23:52
pbmdawgdangit; we haven't scared off BearPeep yet23:52
crythiasthis is geeky.23:52
snapcounthe's building a case to K-Line us all23:52
perlDreameri'm guessing that we're pretty tame, relatively speaking23:52
-!- grobbebol [n=marc@84-107-150-38.dsl.quicknet.nl] has joined #webgui23:53
pbmdawghey BearPeep23:53
snapcount12 peeps23:53
snapcountis that a record?23:53
* crythias doesn't want to grow beebowls. Sounds itchy.23:53
perlDreamer10 peeps23:53
perlDreamer2 artificial representatives23:53
crythiaswhat's the status on that form, Roy.23:54
-!- grobbebol [n=marc@84-107-150-38.dsl.quicknet.nl] has left #webgui []23:54
crythiasdid I offend?23:54
* crythias sniffs his pits.23:55
snapcountJT knows about it23:55
snapcountI told him on the phone23:55
perlDreamerhow's the EMS?23:55
snapcountbut he's busy23:55
crythiastime is stinky. It has flies. or something.23:55
snapcountperlDreamer: goal is to finish this week23:56
snapcountit's a lofty goal23:56
-!- crythias [n=gyoung@] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]23:56
snapcountso the final vote was no23:57
snapcountwell, here's the thing23:57
snapcountif you guys have ideas about how to build the community23:57
snapcountI want to hear about it23:57
pbmdawgI have some ideas23:58
snapcountthe representative from Kansas, has the floor23:58
snapcountuh, hum!23:59
snapcountthe representative from Kansas, has the floor23:59
pbmdawgwhy don't we all start collaborating on new wobjects or something.23:59
pbmdawgor the theme system for 7.023:59
pbmdawgor a templated, pluggable pagination system23:59
pbmdawgor whatever else needs to be done23:59
--- Day changed Tue Mar 07 2006
pbmdawgor a wikipedia wobject00:00
pbmdawgor a newsletter campaign wobject00:00
snapcountthe problem isn't things to do00:00
pbmdawgor mailing lists for CS's in 7.000:00
snapcountwe have plenty to do00:00
snapcountwe need more people to help00:00
snapcounthow can we build the community base00:00
snapcountencourage volunteers00:00
pbmdawgWebGUI is unusable, currently00:00
snapcountsupport them00:00
perlDreamerthat's why I think we should start doing stuff over on use.perl.org00:00
pbmdawgnobody is going to join the community00:00
snapcounthow is it unusable?00:01
snapcountyou're joking right?00:01
snapcountI use it00:01
snapcountso do a lot of other websites00:01
pbmdawgit's only useful to a very tiny set of people00:01
pbmdawgand it's on nobody's radar.00:01
snapcountso what's your point00:01
snapcountI'm trying to connect the dots here00:02
pbmdawgit's only useful to those who have their own server, or can use mod_perl on their host00:02
snapcountwhat can we do about that?00:02
pbmdawgthat limits it to only people who have a financial interest in selecting a CMS or web app platform00:02
pbmdawghobbyists and 98% of web hosts/sites are excluded00:03
snapcountso you're saying we can't have a community because only people with money can use WebGUI?00:03
pbmdawgI'm not saying we can't have a community00:03
pbmdawgI'm saying with the state of webgui currently, it's software for enterprises.00:03
perlDreameror churches00:03
snapcountthat may be00:04
perlDreameror soccer sites00:04
perlDreameror governments00:04
snapcountbut we want to build the community00:04
snapcounthow is this related?00:04
perlDreamerif you want gold, you have to go to the hills00:04
pbmdawgthe demo system is great00:04
pbmdawgbut it's just so limited.00:04
pbmdawgnot to mention crappy looking00:04
pbmdawgand broken-looking in IE00:04
pbmdawgthere aren't any apps in it that are whiz-bang anymore  (maybe 3-4 years ago)00:05
snapcountwhat does this have to do with building the community?00:05
pbmdawgI'm saying00:05
pbmdawgnobody is going to join the community because of these things00:05
pbmdawgthese are blocking growth of the community00:05
snapcountso you're saying to build the community we could fix those problems?00:06
pbmdawgyeah.  write 50 more foss apps for webgui, and throw out the god-awful green/red style, and you might have a decent start00:06
pbmdawgbut if you want me to tell you how I really feel.......00:07
snapcountok... I'd say 7.0 addresses a lot of those things00:07
snapcountnew style(s) 00:07
snapcountmore apps00:07
snapcountmore features00:07
pbmdawgyeah, but more apps for enterprises.00:07
pbmdawgand probably styles for enterprises00:07
perlDreamersnapcount: do you mean user community or developer community?00:07
snapcountboth really00:08
pbmdawgtotally separate animals.00:08
snapcountbut right now I'm focused more on contributors00:08
snapcountdevelopers, testers, doc writers00:08
pbmdawgdevelopers go where the perceived money/fame is00:08
pbmdawgand you can't have that without a big user community00:08
snapcounthow can I give our volunteer developers more fame00:09
snapcountI got Martin on newsforge00:09
snapcountand 3 other high traffic sites00:09
pbmdawgdoesn't mean much, in context.00:09
perlDreamerwhen WebGUI is cool, then you can give people fame by associating them with it00:09
perlDreameror, using Matt's comment earlier, until it's on the Radar, not much else will happen00:09
perlDreamerwhen people talk about WebGUI like they do Bricolage, then you know you're successful00:10
snapcountI've never heard of Bricolage until I started hanging out with you guys00:10
snapcountI heard PHP*, and Mambo00:10
pbmdawgor joomla/mambo, or wordpress, or zope/plone00:11
perlDreamerI used Bricolage because it's perl based.00:11
pbmdawgor even sharepoint.  or websphere.  or lotus notes.  or any of the java app servers.00:11
perlDreamerWe need someone giving an OSCON talk about WebGUI00:11
snapcountso what makes them so much better from a community standpoint00:11
snapcountfeature wise, they are not better00:11
nubai'd say zope/plone, too.00:11
perlDreamerthey are different00:11
pbmdawgnot from an enterprise developer's perspective, you're right.00:11
perlDreamerit's not an application framework00:11
pbmdawgyou're right, WebGUI is easier to develop apps on00:12
perlDreamercan't develop apps on Bric00:12
perlDreamerit doesn't do apps00:12
perlDreamerit only manages content00:12
perlDreamerapproval chains, publication, etc.00:12
pbmdawgbut all the others are far easier to install a bazillion tiny applets00:12
pbmdawgor plugins00:12
pbmdawgor themes00:12
pbmdawgb/c every single small time n-tier shared hoster supports the php ones.00:13
MrHairgreaseSo make a plugin installer interface in the admin console00:13
nubai wish people had the "yeah you mean that cool portal building app" look when i pronounce "webgui"00:13
nubathey have "that" look when i say "zope" in brazil00:13
nubabut instead.. "imsorry, webwhat?"00:14
pbmdawgit's like hollywood.00:14
snapcountok. so what if we made a huge push to have people write contribs for 7.000:14
nubaoh since we're at it, i think webgui was a poor name choice, globally-wise00:14
nubabut well, we can live with it00:14
chansenhow does the release schedule look like, when is next major release?00:14
pbmdawgway too far away00:14
MrHairgreaseI once opted for WebMeister00:14
nubaits not brand-able like zope, plone, wiki, mambo, etc.00:15
snapcount6.99 is may 1 I think00:15
snapcountanything is brandable00:15
pbmdawg'tis not a major release.00:15
pbmdawgonly <5 people will install 6.9900:15
snapcountit's 7.0 beta00:15
pbmdawgmaybe 1000:15
snapcountthat's doesn't have anything to do with how big the release is00:16
pbmdawgsure it does.00:16
chansenmay, good. will buy me some time for auth stuff00:16
nubai think it sounds somewhat generic. like "web gui". think "car fuel". you can have a petrol station named "carfuel" but how fun is that ?00:16
nubaor how unique does it sounds?00:17
pbmdawgamount of change over previous releases.00:17
nubawell dont look me that way, i love webgui :)00:17
snapcountmatt, what release has ever had more changes?00:17
MrHairgrease6.2.11 -> 6.3?00:18
pbmdawgmuch of it are backend changes.00:18
pbmdawgadding workflow will not be terribly useful to people initially, I'm guessing.00:18
pbmdawgbut again, that's a developer-level change, mostly.00:18
perlDreamerit will be useful00:19
perlDreamerI guarantee it00:19
MrHairgreaseWell, to add some eyecandy to webgui00:19
perlDreamerthe startDate and endDate functions were removed from assets00:19
MrHairgreaseI'm still busy with building a grahping engine00:19
perlDreamerpeople will be using workflow right away00:19
snapcountalright... let's focus00:19
snapcountlet's work on the things we can change00:19
snapcountthe stuff we can do now00:19
pbmdawgI guess what I'm suggesting is..00:20
snapcountare you writing a manifesto? =)00:21
pbmdawgif you want developers, you need users.  To get users, you need to put it in their hands.   The demo system doesn't quite do that b/c it looks crappy in IE and is very limited in functionality.  We need some kind of hosted social app like myspace or something, where people can customize stuff.  you know, actually do something with a webgui site other than write database applications for enterprises.00:21
perlDreamerso if the demo system looked cool that would be good?00:22
snapcountI see your point00:22
snapcountthat will be fixed with 700:22
snapcountor 6.9900:22
snapcountthere are at least three default styles00:22
snapcountall new00:22
perlDreamerbut are they cool?00:22
pbmdawgI'll withhold judgment till I see 'em00:23
snapcountI haven't seen them00:23
pbmdawgnot that Steve's work hasn't been entirely cool up to this point, which it has.00:23
snapcountI heard some really good ideas00:23
snapcountI'm going to list them in what I think would have the most impact00:23
snapcountthat we can control00:23
snapcountand do something about00:23
snapcount1) Easier to install apps/plugins/styles00:24
snapcountthis is all about the wre control panel00:24
perlDreamernot necessarily00:24
pbmdawg(if you do it the way you wanted to, roy, which incidentally I agree with)00:24
perlDreamerNot all WebGUI users will be using the WRE00:24
perlDreamertake me for instance00:24
snapcountwhat about franks asset installer00:25
snapcountthat's pretty easy00:25
perlDreamerit's okay00:25
perlDreamerbut you can't do it through the interface00:25
perlDreamerWebGUI requires command line access00:25
snapcountso a way to install wobjects from admin console?00:25
perlDreameror macros00:25
perlDreamerhelp docs00:26
snapcountproblem with that is that the code effects all sites00:26
snapcountstyles don't00:26
snapcountbut the others do00:26
pbmdawgI suggested this to JT last year, who replied with "I hope you're kidding, b/c you're fired if you're not"00:26
snapcountI've heard that line before00:27
snapcountso, that's why I said wre control panel00:27
pbmdawgwhat's your #200:27
snapcountb/c of the shared code00:27
snapcount#2 is user contribs00:28
snapcountstyles, wobjects, macros00:28
pbmdawgwe also need a way to serialize a whole webgui site.00:28
pbmdawgusers, assets, groups, settings, all of it.00:28
pbmdawgso sites can be exported and imported.00:28
MrHairgreasecalc sacked I hope you're kidding, b/c you're fired if you're not00:29
pbmdawgso someone can create a demo and then copy it to their home machine.00:29
snapcount6.99 is to a point where we can start making contribs again00:29
snapcountthe big changes are done00:29
snapcountand mostly working00:29
snapcounti.e., session00:29
MrHairgreaseserializing a site would be cool00:29
snapcountso, the big list of apps matt said00:29
snapcountwe could build those00:30
snapcountand contribute them00:30
snapcountmaybe get them in the core00:30
snapcountwe need a place to list all of the ideas for app plug ins00:30
snapcountand let people vote on them00:30
perlDreamerlike JT's new karma RFE system?00:30
pbmdawgI think JT mentioned something like that at the last wuc.00:30
snapcountI think this is where JT is going with the new karma system00:30
pbmdawgbut it's way way too late00:31
perlDreamerit's in 6.99 now00:31
snapcountwell, we don't have to wait for that00:31
pbmdawgsort of.00:31
snapcountwe could use a poll00:31
snapcounteven if just developers vote00:31
pbmdawgwe need them all00:31
pbmdawgall are highest priority00:31
pbmdawganything anyone suggests, we need.00:31
snapcountso submit RFE's for each asset.00:32
snapcountand recruit people to build them00:32
snapcountand contribute them00:32
snapcountyou can rank them00:32
snapcountand track who is working on it00:32
snapcountif people really want it00:32
snapcountstyle imports00:33
snapcounteasily changing the look of your site00:33
snapcounti.e., downloading themes00:33
snapcountI'm going to do this after EMS is done00:33
snapcountthe idea right now is something like this00:33
snapcountyou can import the theme via url00:34
snapcountso, you can have a site that has 'feeds' of styles00:34
snapcountthe admin console will list all styles at a server00:34
snapcountand you can select them00:34
snapcountthoughts on this?00:35
pbmdawghow does it apply?  00:35
pbmdawgjust using editBranch?00:35
snapcountit will show up as a style00:36
pbmdawgthat will only cover styles of assets only, not subtemplates of assets.\00:36
pbmdawgsuch as the various templates in a CS00:36
snapcountthat's true00:36
snapcounthow can we address that00:36
pbmdawgwriting a Theme asset.   and a Theme Manager wobject.00:36
snapcounthow would that work?00:37
pbmdawgI wrote the spec up a year ago, but I don't think I have it any more.00:37
pbmdawgit wasn't difficult or complicated.00:38
pbmdawgyou are presented with a tree of your site's asset system when you go to apply a theme, and you select the nodes and optionally all their descendants to apply the theme to, along with which types of assets and their subtemplates to apply the template settings to.00:39
perlDreamerwouldn't it just be better to make styles apply to subtemplates?00:39
pbmdawgI don't know what you mean00:40
perlDreamer(14:42:19) pbmdawg: that will only cover styles of assets only, not subtemplates of assets.\00:40
pbmdawgthat's what I said00:40
perlDreamerso make the theme system do _everything_00:40
pbmdawgthat's what I'm saying.00:40
perlDreamernot just style templates00:40
perlDreamerbut you can do that without a new asset/wobject combo00:40
pbmdawgI don't believe so.00:40
pbmdawgunless you build it into the Asset mixin.00:41
pbmdawgthe logic about how the various templates interrelate has to be stored somewhere.00:41
snapcountwhat if it did this00:42
snapcountwhen you export a theme, it gets all templates00:42
snapcountthen all you would need00:42
snapcountis a way to associate all of them00:42
snapcountwith one selection00:42
snapcounti.e., Bannana style -- Bannana CS Thread, etc00:43
snapcountlike a namespace00:43
snapcountfor the look of the site00:43
snapcountselecting this namespace from the list would do an edit branch on the site to apply all of the styles and subtemplates00:44
snapcountif someone doesn't have a subtemplate defined for an asset, it would retain the default00:45
pbmdawgpeople may not want to convert their entire site.00:45
snapcountso we give an option like the nav def00:45
snapcountwhere to start00:45
snapcounthow far to go00:45
pbmdawgthat's what I was describing above.  00:45
snapcounthow is that an asset though?00:45
perlDreamerit's an operation00:46
pbmdawgyeah, it's more of an operation.00:46
snapcountmy god00:46
snapcountwe all agree on something00:47
perlDreamerno we don't!00:47
* snapcount panics =)00:47
perlDreameryes we do00:47
snapcounthere's my thing guys00:47
perlDreamerI don't want to see your thing00:47
snapcountthere is a lot of negative energy00:47
* snapcount goes hippy on you00:47
snapcounta lot of despair00:47
snapcountI want to fix this00:47
snapcountI want to make this fun and rewarding for those of you that do stuff00:48
snapcountcatch my drift00:49
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perlDreamerthat's the thing about OS software though00:49
-!- BearPerson [i=karsten@sourcemage/wizard/pdpc.bronze.BearPerson] has quit [Nick collision from services.]00:49
-!- BeerPerson is now known as BearPerson00:49
perlDreamermost of it is internally rewarding00:49
perlDreameryou're still thinking cathedral00:50
perlDreamerread this: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/onlamp/2006/02/27/what-corp-projects-learn-from-open-source.html00:50
WRE<perlDreamer> http://tinyurl.com/zewnh00:50
perlDreamerthanks, WRE00:51
snapcountI've read the book00:51
snapcountI know what you're saying00:51
perlDreamergood, then I'm preaching to the choir00:51
perlDreamercan I get a hallelujah, brother?00:51
snapcountnot really00:51
snapcountI just didn't see myself as thinking that way00:52
snapcountbut maybe I am00:52
perlDreamerhow many perl hackers get promos/kudos for working on perl00:52
perlDreamervery, very few00:52
perlDreamerbut perl is fun to work on00:52
pbmdawgso perl6 takes decades to produce itself.00:52
perlDreamerthat's actually different from perl itself00:53
perlDreamerI'm talking CPAN authors00:53
perlDreamercore hackers00:53
perlDreamerthink more like Pugs00:54
perlDreamerpeople just hacking for the sheer fun of it00:54
snapcountso what we need then is not recognition or incentives00:55
snapcountwe need to find more hackers00:55
perlDreamerwe need to make hacking webgui fun00:55
perlDreamerand easy00:55
snapcountI think it's pretty easy00:55
snapcountthe API is good00:55
perlDreamerchansen, you still around?00:55
snapcountI don't know how to make it fun00:55
snapcountit just is for me00:56
perlDreamerme, too00:56
perlDreamerwhy is it fun for you?00:56
snapcountI like solving problems00:56
perlDreamerwhy WebGUI then?00:56
perlDreamerwhy not something else?00:56
snapcountthe people I guess00:57
snapcountand I believe in Plainblack00:57
snapcountI think WebGUI will be the best00:57
snapcountand I want to be a part of that00:57
perlDreamerwhen you figure out how to tell other people that in a way that convinces them, you'll succeed in building the community00:58
snapcountwe need a propaganda machine00:58
perlDreamerthat would help, but each of us as developers can actually do more than a marketing machine.00:58
perlDreamerbecause community is about building relationships00:59
perlDreamermarketing will make people use it, or be interested00:59
perlDreamerbut dreaming about being part of something great will make them hack it!00:59
snapcount[17:58] <perlDreamer> because community is about building relationships00:59
snapcountwhere have I heard that before?00:59
snapcountthat's a quote from something00:59
perlDreamerTim O'Reilly?01:00
perlDreamer!g community relationships01:00
WREGoogle Book Search @ http://books.google.com/books?q=community+relationships&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&sa=N&tab=wp 01:00
snapcountI don't know01:00
snapcountit just sounds really familiar01:00
perlDreamerI was going to ask chansen if he remembered his response to Frank about when the Auth plugins were going to be done01:02
perlDreamerhe said he'd looked at the code and found that it was going to take a whole lot longer to clean it up than he originally thought01:02
perlDreamerit's not fun to work on bad code01:02
perlDreamerI don't think that's as important as relationships, but it's not far behind01:03
perlDreamerI think we need to live and breathe Perl Best Practices01:03
* pbmdawg crosses his heart and hopes to die. I think we should seriously consider porting (a version of?) webgui to php.01:04
pbmdawglol j/k folks.01:05
snapcountthat's ridiculous01:05
pbmdawgjust trying to make your hearts stop01:05
perlDreamerdidn't someone already do that?01:05
snapcountlast updated oct 6 200501:09
snapcountwasn't that right around the WUC 200501:10
snapcountI bet he gave up01:10
perlDreamerwho was doing it?01:11
snapcountthat kid from unc I think01:11
perlDreamerfor a second I thought it was you...01:11
snapcountlike a second recently?01:11
snapcountor a second in the distant past?01:12
* snapcount looks puzzled01:12
* perlDreamer was confused01:12
snapcounti think his last name is johnson01:12
snapcountmaybe that's why01:12
perlDreameronline, all you johnson's look alike01:13
snapcount!vote does this work?01:22
WRE .--:[ #WebGUI Vote Activated ]:------------ --- -- -01:22
WRE( -:- does this work? 01:22
WRE`--:[ To vote, type/msg !yes or !no. 1 min limit ]:----- --- -- -01:22
snapcountvote now or lose everything01:22
snapcountyes or no01:22
snapcountI wonder what it does after 1 min is up?01:23
WRE .--:[ #WebGUI Vote Ended ]:------------ --- -- -01:24
WRE( -:- Vote Tally:   Yes  2    No  001:24
WRE `--:[ QuickVote v1.02.01 by David Proper (DrN) ]:----- --- -- -01:24
snapcounttime for me to go01:25
snapcountsee ya guys01:25
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pbmdawg!vote is WRE stupid?01:35
WRE .--:[ #WebGUI Vote Activated ]:------------ --- -- -01:35
WRE( -:- is WRE stupid? 01:35
WRE`--:[ To vote, type/msg !yes or !no. 1 min limit ]:----- --- -- -01:35
perlDreamer!oh yes01:35
perlDreamer!most definitely01:35
perlDreamerchange your nick and see if you can spoof it01:35
-!- pbmdawg is now known as stupid01:35
-!- stupid is now known as pbmdawg01:35
perlDreamernow we wait01:35
WRE .--:[ #WebGUI Vote Ended ]:------------ --- -- -01:36
WRE( -:- Vote Tally:   Yes  3    No  001:36
WRE `--:[ QuickVote v1.02.01 by David Proper (DrN) ]:----- --- -- -01:36
perlDreameroh boy01:36
perlDreamerballot stuffing01:36
chansenperlDreamer: pong01:36
perlDreameroh, from earlier01:36
perlDreamerwhat's your honest opinion of the WebGUI code base?01:37
chansenyou don't want to know ;)01:37
perlDreamerno, I really want to know01:37
pbmdawgyes we do01:37
chansenThis will be from my limited experience from the code base.01:38
pbmdawgwhich version01:38
perlDreamerdude, you're sanctified01:38
perlDreamerjust lay it out01:38
chansenWebGUI reinvents to many wheels in the first place, things are looking better01:38
chansenWebGUI uses globals/singletons/static classes which scares the hell out of me01:38
chansenWebGUI's motto seem to be human testing instead of machine tests, this is improving :)01:39
perlDreamerso what's bad and not improving?01:40
pbmdawgglobals/singletons/static ?01:40
perlDreamer$session was a global01:40
pbmdawgright, but that's irrelevant now.01:40
perlDreamerstatic classes are those with manually written constructors and accessors01:40
perlDreamerchansen, am I right about that?01:41
chansenyes, also touches reinvented weels01:41
pbmdawgwhat is a singleton01:42
perlDreamerobject that only allows one of itself01:42
perlDreamerlike Log::Log4perl01:42
chansenand one more thing, WebGUI does almost no parameter/argument validation which in the end will bite you01:42
perlDreameryou mean on a per sub basis01:43
chansenyes, there is aslo strong and weak singletons01:43
perlDreamerso what isn't getting better about WebGUI, aside from parameter validation?01:44
chansenthe WebGUI's sql01:45
chansenlooks like php ;P01:45
chansenseriously, placeholders is better and faster01:45
chansenWebGUI::SQL looks like crap IMO, find a better ORM on CPAN01:46
chansenI realise that what I'm saying is not what you want to hear, but if WebGUI want press or attract serious hackers it needs to adopt to the present standards01:47
perlDreamerActually, it's exactly what I want to hear01:48
perlDreamerbecause it's an objective view of the codebase01:48
chansenand the I18N stuff does not look good either, Locale::Maketext which is a defacto standard does a much better and accurate job01:50
perlDreamerI talked with JT about that, and he said that none of the CPAN locale modules would handle all of our needs.01:51
perlDreamerit was good for labeling, but not large documentation01:51
perlDreamerparagraphs and paragraphs of text01:51
chansenno, Locale::Maketext handles large chunks of text01:51
perlDreamerembedded HTML, too?01:52
chansenuse gettext which is _the_ defacto for open source01:52
chansenand there is plenty of tools to work and update catalogs/messages, both GUI and CLI01:53
chansenWebGUI has no seperation between models or controllers which also make things more messy01:54
chansenand sometimes even presentation code is mixed with those01:55
chansenWebGUI has a nice OOBE, but when it comes to customising/extending it's kind of limiting without hacking/messing with the core stuff01:59
chansenIf you have any questions just ask/yell ;)02:00
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crythiasIm going to cry02:02
pbmdawgwhy are you going to cry.02:04
crythiasI can't read02:04
crythiasI'm going to scream02:04
crythiasyeah oy02:04
crythiasif they wont credit me, I'm going to be irritated02:04
pbmdawg6x$18 ?02:05
pbmdawgfor what02:05
pbmdawgwith whom02:06
crythiasall their add-ons are for 6 month increments02:13
crythiasnow to see what I can do to cancel02:14
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perlDreamerstill don't have no stinking ops07:20
perlDreameror unstinking ops07:20
perlDreamerjust a bot07:20
perlDreamerand a guy in Florida with a small dog07:21
perlDreamerand a loud mouthed hacker in Portland with a new laptop07:21
snapcountnew laptop eh?07:22
snapcountdo tell07:22
perlDreamerInspiron 600007:22
perlDreamer1 Gb memory07:22
perlDreamer40 Gb hard drive07:22
perlDreamer9 cell battery07:22
perlDreamershould run Linux pretty easily07:22
snapcountdid you design the battery? =)07:22
perlDreamerno, my group doesn't do laptop products07:23
perlDreamercell phones, PDAs, MP3 players, cameras07:23
perlDreamerand soon, power tools07:23
snapcountso you did the battery in my nano07:23
perlDreamerIt's possible07:23
perlDreamercut it open and look for a chip ID starting with DS07:23
snapcountwhat about my samsung a94007:23
perlDreamercell phone?07:24
perlDreamerI think we're in some samsung cell phones07:24
perlDreamerhow many battery terminals does it have?07:24
snapcountI'm not sure07:25
snapcountI guess I could look07:25
perlDreamerKathy says hi07:25
snapcounthi Kathy!07:26
snapcountWOO HOO07:26
snapcountYES YES YES07:26
snapcountI GOT IT07:26
snapcountwre binary for FC4 is working07:27
perlDreamercool!  I'll be talking to you in about 8 working days07:27
snapcount8 working days?07:27
perlDreamerWhen the new laptop gets here07:27
perlDreamerof course, you realize that it's only about 3 weeks 'til FC5 comes out, right?07:27
snapcountterje should be happy07:28
snapcounthe asked for this on Thursday07:28
perlDreamerIs terje a hacker or a business type?07:28
snapcountthat's ok07:28
snapcounthe's a sysadmin I think07:28
snapcountI haven't talked to him a whole lot07:29
snapcountI'm not sure how much of a programmer he is07:29
perlDreamerAm I like the only volunteer perl hacker?07:29
snapcountwell, the dutch guys07:29
snapcountbut procolix pays them07:29
snapcountso I don't know if they count07:29
snapcountthere were some others07:30
snapcountbut they've been quiet lately07:30
snapcountthey drifted away somewhere in the middle of 6.x07:30
perlDreamerrapid changes will do that07:31
perlDreameronly us certified whackos stick that kind of stuff out07:31
snapcountI can't remember how to upload to sf07:31
perlDreamerlogged in?07:31
snapcountyou ftp to some addr07:31
snapcountI can't remember what it is07:31
perlDreamerdid JT email it to you?07:31
snapcountI guess I could look at the scripts on the pb servers that push the releases07:31
perlDreamerthere you go!07:32
perlDreamergot time for an upgrade question?07:32
perlDreamerokay, we start with a 6.99 version of WebGUI07:36
perlDreamerI need to rename 1 Help and 1 i18n file07:36
perlDreamerHelp/Wobject.pm goes to Help/Asset_Wobject.pm07:36
perlDreamerand likewise for i18n/English/Wobject.pm07:36
perlDreamerI know now to fix this in SVN, but writing the upgrade script is giving me a headache07:37
snapcountsystem("mv path/to/Help/Wobject.pm /path/to/Help/Asset_Wobject.pm");07:37
snapcountthat should work on win32 also07:38
snapcountbut I'm not 100% on that07:38
perlDreamerI thought of that, but mv will fail on anyone running it on SVN07:38
perlDreamersince the source files don't exist07:38
snapcountwhat do you mean they don't exist?07:38
snapcountoh i see07:38
snapcountyou can do this07:39
perlDreamerI'll just check for existence before running the system call07:39
snapcountread my mind07:39
perlDreamerthen I can start working on the other two thing I volunteered to do for JT.07:39
snapcountdon't forget about EMS =)07:39
perlDreamerI won't07:39
snapcountshould be a lot of stuff checked in this week07:39
perlDreamermore forms?07:40
* snapcount crosses his fingers07:40
snapcountI don't even know right now07:40
snapcountI'm so tired07:40
perlDreamerDo you know that everyone who talks to me from PB says that?07:40
snapcountmy upload has started07:40
perlDreamerY'all work way too hard07:40
snapcountwe all have a habbit of working too much07:40
snapcountsmall company07:41
snapcountwe have to07:41
perlDreamerand you're going to school, too07:41
snapcount16 credits07:41
perlDreamerwhat are you studying?07:41
snapcountobviously spelling is not my thing07:41
snapcountthis time I'm doing business07:41
snapcountI've already done programming07:41
snapcountthe universal degree07:41
snapcountworks anywhere07:41
snapcountalso, good to think from a business perspective07:42
perlDreamerJT does that a lot07:42
snapcountI'm supposed to be his mini-me07:42
snapcountI've got a ways to go07:42
perlDreamerYou need to start growing a beard07:42
perlDreamerand scowl07:42
snapcountuh no07:42
snapcountI'm far from anti-social07:43
snapcountJT is not the best with people07:43
perlDreameryou don't have to be anti-social, just scowl a lot07:43
snapcountalright man, I'm done07:43
snapcounttime for bed07:43
perlDreamercrash hard, sleep well07:44
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snapcountgood morning my peeps16:40
pbmdawggood morning mr. sir.16:46
-!- snapcount changed the topic of #WebGUI to: terje, your fc4 binary is done16:47
snapcountwake up16:54
snapcountroll out of bed16:54
chansenho folks16:55
snapcountwhat'd you call me? =)16:55
* chansen s/ho/hi/ # I'm not Santa ;)16:55
pbmdawghidy ho16:56
* snapcount slaps terje around a bit with a large trout17:44
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* crythias sets the topic to: Your STD test results are in. Please see the Doctor ASAP.18:03
crythiasops! Now!18:04
crythiasgimme ops, before I start whining!18:04
* crythias fumes, pants, snarls.18:05
pbmdawg /op crythias18:05
* crythias calms down. Temperature is back to a nominal 98.618:05
crythiasdigg: research shows that 98.6 is too hot a temperature for humans. Global warming has raised human temperatures over time, (we used to average 97 degrees!)18:07
* snapcount hurls a tranq dart at crythias18:07
snapcountsleep crythias....sleep now....don't fight it18:07
* crythias 's eyes gloss over18:07
* crythias 's pupils increase to the size of saucers.18:08
snapcountterje, lurking will make you go blind18:08
crythiasmust. keep. typin....18:09
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snapcounthe is pretty wound up today18:09
-!- crythias [n=gyoung@] has joined #webgui18:09
snapcountthe temperature of our room is rising18:10
snapcountwe must cool it down18:10
* MrHairgrease enters the room18:10
MrHairgreaseeverything cool now18:10
snapcount!vote Do you think Martin's hair is really greasy?18:10
WRE .--:[ #WebGUI Vote Activated ]:------------ --- -- -18:10
WRE( -:- Do you think Martin's hair is really greasy? 18:10
WRE`--:[ To vote, type/msg !yes or !no. 1 min limit ]:----- --- -- -18:10
-!- MrHairgrease is now known as GreaseMeister18:11
GreaseMeisteris that better?18:11
snapcountsee if you can vote again18:11
snapcountsince you changed your nic18:11
WRE .--:[ #WebGUI Vote Ended ]:------------ --- -- -18:12
WRE( -:- Vote Tally:   Yes  2    No  118:12
-!- GreaseMeister is now known as DapperDan18:12
WRE `--:[ QuickVote v1.02.01 by David Proper (DrN) ]:----- --- -- -18:12
snapcountthe polls are closed18:12
-!- DapperDan is now known as MrHairgrease18:12
snapcountbut it worked18:12
snapcountthat's lame18:12
* MrHairgrease beat the system18:12
MrHairgreaseI feel very punk today18:13
snapcountDo you work for Diebold?18:13
MrHairgreaseNo, but I did vote on a voting machine today18:13
MrHairgreaseI don't think those are diebolds btw18:13
MrHairgreasebut some european brand of votebending machines18:13
MrHairgreasewhat is?18:20
snapcountvotebending machines18:21
snapcountc'mon martin18:21
snapcountkeep up18:21
snapcountsnap snap18:22
MrHairgreaseThose machines does keep voting very exciting18:22
MrHairgreaseyou never know what you really vote18:22
snapcountso, if you're sailing through the desert and the wheels fall off your boat, how many pancakes will it take to shingle a doghouse?18:22
MrHairgreaseIt is not a good thing to be drunk at noon roy18:23
pbmdawgdepends on if the pancakes are made of sand or your boat wheels18:24
snapcountthe answer is18:25
snapcountnone.  because ice cream has no bones18:26
MrHairgreaseIt must be beacuse of the timezone18:26
MrHairgreasebut I do not understand18:26
snapcountthat's the point18:26
snapcountit has no point18:26
snapcountit doesn't make sense18:26
snapcountand therefore funny to weirdos such as snapcount18:27
MrHairgreaseoh, now I get it18:27
* MrHairgrease laughs his ass off18:27
snapcountI'm still psyched about getting wre to work on fc418:27
MrHairgreaseI'll try the joke on some people at the bar tonight18:28
snapcountexcuse my crythian mood18:28
snapcountjust don't tell it to any chicks18:28
MrHairgreasewas fc4 a pain in the ass then?18:28
snapcountthey won't laugh18:28
snapcountdon't ask me how I know that18:28
MrHairgreaseI don't care18:28
snapcountnot really18:28
MrHairgreasemine laughs at everything i say18:28
snapcountI was being stupid18:28
snapcountI'm not sure if that's good or not =)18:28
MrHairgreaseIt's probably good18:29
snapcountoh ok18:29
MrHairgreaseelse there wouldn't be so much stupid people= )18:29
snapcountthe fc4 problem was that SOAP::Lite was failing to install18:29
snapcountwhich caused the other perl modules to stop installing18:29
snapcountand wre didn't die when this happened18:30
snapcountit just went on to libapreq w/o reporting the error18:30
MrHairgreaseoh ok18:30
snapcountone of the perl modules needed by libapreq was missing18:30
snapcountso that broke also18:30
snapcountso, I just had to go back and make them all install18:30
snapcountand recompile libapreq18:30
snapcountthen it was happy18:31
snapcountit takes forever to build on my craptop18:32
snapcountlike 6 hours18:32
MrHairgreasethat's why I don't have a laptop18:33
MrHairgreasethat and some monetary issues =)18:33
snapcountstarving student eh?18:35
MrHairgreasenot exactly starving18:36
snapcountnot quite starving18:36
snapcountme too18:36
snapcountI'm in the 'not quite starving' category18:36
MrHairgreaseI get around pretty good18:36
MrHairgreasebut I don't wanna waste my money on a laptop18:36
MrHairgreaseit's just not useful enough for me18:36
snapcountPB is buying my laptop, so it works out nice =)18:36
MrHairgreasethat would be your craptop, right =)18:37
snapcountcraptop is what I have now18:37
* MrHairgrease deletes his email to jt again =)18:37
snapcountmy new one ships on the 15th18:37
snapcountis it juicy18:37
MrHairgreaseand that one compiles wre in two hours or so?18:37
snapcountwe'll see18:37
MrHairgreaseforget about the email18:38
snapcountit's supposed to be hella fast18:38
MrHairgreasemy computer isn't18:38
MrHairgreasebut it's fast enough18:38
MrHairgreaseamd 1800 or something like that18:38
snapcountthat's pretty good18:38
MrHairgreaseyeah sure18:38
snapcountI have to keep mine for 3 years before I get another one18:38
snapcountso mine will prolly suck w/i 6 mos or so18:39
MrHairgreaseI bought my current computer like three and a half years ago I think18:39
MrHairgreasestill works fine18:39
MrHairgreaseI don't play games18:39
MrHairgreaseso I don't need all this unholy power18:40
MrHairgreasehow come we still have no ops?18:40
snapcountb/c JT is lame18:41
snapcounthe's 'working' or something18:41
MrHairgreasewhat has jt to do with that18:41
snapcounthe has to apply for a group thing18:41
snapcountwith freenode18:41
MrHairgreaseyou can't?18:41
snapcountat which point, pb will have totalatarian control over the channel18:42
snapcountlife will end as we know it18:42
snapcountwe will be slaves to the machine18:42
* MrHairgrease starts #fightthesystem18:42
snapcountwell, JT will then designate me as regional commander of #webgui18:42
snapcountat which point18:42
snapcountyou will all be my bitches18:42
snapcount(I'm joking btw)18:42
MrHairgreaseI figure so much18:42
snapcountin case anyone missed the 'tone'18:43
MrHairgreaseYou don't want me as your bitch18:43
snapcountwhen we do get ops back18:43
snapcountI think we will give ops to everyone18:43
snapcountthen just 'kick' back and relax18:43
snapcountsee who's left when the dust settles18:44
snapcountkind of an alpha male approach to ops18:44
snapcountsurvival of the dorkiest18:44
* MrHairgrease is grochery shopping18:52
MrHairgreaseor is it gross-ery18:52
snapcountyou have your desktop at the grocery store?18:52
snapcountaren't people looking at you funny or is that normal in Europe?18:53
MrHairgreaseis should be goes18:53
MrHairgreaseOnly the upper layer of society has desktops at the grocery store18:53
snapcountI see18:54
MrHairgreasethat excludes me18:54
snapcountyou're one of the elites18:54
MrHairgreaseonly when I'm between dorks =)18:54
MrHairgreaseand even then...18:54
MrHairgreaseI'm not that elite18:54
WRE<snapcount> http://tinyurl.com/oyyrj19:00
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snapcountdid you get me any food?19:31
snapcountsome cheese perhaps?19:32
* MrHairgrease throws snapcount a slice'o'pizza19:32
MrHairgreaseYou can have all the cheese19:32
MrHairgreaseIt might be cold when it arrives though19:33
MrHairgreaseyou might wanna use your microwave19:33
snapcountmmmmm... cold pizza19:33
MrHairgreaseeverybody has his taste for good food19:34
snapcounthow come I'm the only one in #fightthesystem?19:34
WRE<MrHairgrease> http://tinyurl.com/leg2j19:38
MrHairgreasethat's my favorite part of the site19:38
MrHairgreasewrong channelnot the system fighters...19:38
snapcountI made my own button19:43
snapcountdo you think they'll send it to the US?19:43
MrHairgreasenah 19:43
MrHairgreaseprolly not19:43
snapcountwhy not19:43
MrHairgreaseI made my button19:43
snapcountI'll look out for dutch terrorists19:44
MrHairgreasewhich translates to:19:44
MrHairgreaseshort fuses against terrorism19:44
MrHairgreaseanother guy I know made one csaying:19:44
MrHairgreasebutton won't help against terrorism19:44
MrHairgreaseanyway it's a completely absurd campain19:44
MrHairgreaseIt's just to frighten people19:45
MrHairgreasefrom the folder:19:45
snapcounthow about, "Don't push this button, I'm a terrorist"19:45
MrHairgreaseIn holland everybody has to abide the law. The government also has to. Therefore the laws are adjusted.19:45
MrHairgreaseThe whole thing will only demonize foreign people19:46
MrHairgreaseit sucks19:46
MrHairgreaseBut I had a good laugh reading the folder.19:46
snapcountthe translation increases the comedic value19:47
MrHairgreasethanks man19:47
MrHairgreaseOh babelfishes?19:47
MrHairgreasetry to translate french sites19:47
MrHairgreaseOr even better, Japanese19:47
MrHairgreaseBabelfish will translate record sleeve into small pocket19:48
MrHairgreaseat least for french sites19:48
MrHairgreasealso a funny thing is that they have explanations of 'difficult' words in the folder19:49
MrHairgreasedifficult words like:19:50
MrHairgreaseyeah, it's going very good with the Netherlands...19:51
* MrHairgrease now shut up, and won't bore you with it anymore.19:51
MrHairgreaseshuts up*19:51
crythiascrythian proportions19:56
crythiasthe dog meows after swallowing the cat's vocal box. The noise is unnerving, yet strangely lilting. In the distance, a cow moos. 19:58
snapcountholy crap20:05
snapcounthave you guys been to #plone20:05
snapcounton this network20:05
snapcount150 people20:05
snapcounton the channel20:05
snapcountjoomla 5120:06
MrHairgreaseit's just a measly 1500% more than #webgui20:06
MrHairgreasewhy care? =)20:06
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snapcountfunny thing is20:11
snapcountall those people20:11
snapcountand no one is talking20:11
MrHairgreaseTheir overwhelming number must scare them.20:11
snapcountI'd much rather have 9 people that talk20:12
MrHairgreaseIt's probably also b/c they don't know eachother20:12
MrHairgreaseAnother explanation could be they only code and don't chitchat20:12
snapcountI doubt that's it20:12
MrHairgreaseI tried to be sarcastic20:13
MrHairgreasebut I'm just not funny20:13
snapcountit will come in time Martin20:13
MrHairgreasewhich is an attempt at cynicism20:13
snapcountyou can't rush these things20:13
snapcountanyways, I gotta go20:13
MrHairgreasewait till I'm in Vegas20:14
snapcountI'm taking the rest of the day off20:14
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* crythias licks his lips21:27
crythiasmmm roast.21:27
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pbmdawgI've decided that WebGUI is only incidentally open-source.23:11
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BaylinkAh... so there *is* a channel.01:20
Baylink... in which no one's listening.  :-)01:23
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crythiasbecause there's nothing better to do...02:35
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crythiasthe dog02:42
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perlDreamerahhhh!  That's _my_ password!06:00
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snapcountPraise the lord and all that is Holy... you are here17:22
snapcountfeel like helping me figure out something17:23
MrHairgreasewhat's up17:23
snapcountI need help17:23
MrHairgreasewhat's it17:23
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MrHairgreasehow long will it take17:24
snapcountprolly won't take you long17:24
snapcountCouldn't call method addToCart on asset for url: home/untitled Root cause: Can't locate object method "user" via package "Asset_EventManagementSystem" (perhaps you forgot to load "Asset_EventManagementSystem"?) at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/International.pm line 78.17:24
snapcountI'm pretty sure something in the commerece system is causing this17:24
snapcountbut I can't find it17:24
MrHairgreaseI think I know17:24
snapcountooh boy17:24
MrHairgreaseWouter found out about that one17:24
snapcountI'm calling shoppingcart->new($session)->add in that method that's throwing the error17:25
MrHairgreaseThis is probably wrong: WebGUI::Commerce::Payment::recurringPeriodValues17:26
MrHairgreaseIt does not get the sesssion17:26
snapcountwould it matter that I'm not using recurringPayments17:26
* MrHairgrease log on to the procoloix server17:27
* MrHairgrease scratches his head17:29
snapcountwe could start a club17:29
snapcountI've been doing that all morning17:29
MrHairgreaseyou should consider using anti dandruff shampoo =)17:36
snapcountI think I have fleas17:36
MrHairgreaseIn which file does the error occur17:36
MrHairgreaseand which sub?17:36
snapcountWobject/EventManagementSystem www_addToCart17:37
MrHairgreaseTry to comment out this line:17:38
MrHairgrease    477         my $subEventForm = $self->getSubEventForm($eventId);17:38
MrHairgreaseI don't think the problem is in the shopping crat17:38
MrHairgreasethat does not user intl17:38
MrHairgreaseespecially not Asset_EventManagementSystem17:39
MrHairgreasegot it17:39
MrHairgrease    398         my $i18n = WebGUI::International->new('Asset_EventManagementSystem');17:39
MrHairgreaseNo session is passed17:39
snapcountyou mean I have to blame this on me or Colin17:40
snapcountbut I wanted to blame you17:40
* snapcount huffs17:41
MrHairgreaseyou can blame me all you want17:41
snapcountoh ok17:41
MrHairgreasebut why dio you use 1 character indents17:41
snapcountIt's your fault Martin, you fixed this problem17:41
MrHairgreaseIt's my fault17:41
MrHairgreasei admit17:41
snapcountI'm a rebel Martin17:42
MrHairgreaseI can't help it though17:42
snapcountI don't follow the heard17:42
MrHairgreaseIt just suck at coding17:42
snapcount5 char indents are so, "by the book"17:42
MrHairgreaseBut I do use tabs17:42
MrHairgrease1 tab17:42
snapcountnot two?17:42
MrHairgreasejust set your tabs to 8 characters17:42
snapcountor three17:42
MrHairgreasedepends how deep you're nested17:42
chansenHi folks17:42
snapcountthx MrHairgrease17:45
snapcountyou saved the day17:45
snapcountor the morning17:45
MrHairgreasekeeps me off the street17:45
snapcountor something17:45
MrHairgreasethe whales?17:46
snapcountlike shamoo17:46
MrHairgreasesave the whales17:46
snapcountlike fat chicks17:46
snapcountgive me some context here...17:47
MrHairgreaseforget about it17:47
MrHairgreaseit's not funny anyway17:47
snapcounthow do you know17:47
MrHairgreasethat it's not funny?17:47
snapcountwhales can be a very funny topic17:47
snapcount"A whale walks into a bar"17:48
snapcountthat's funny, because whales can't walk, especially on land17:48
snapcountok... moving on17:48
MrHairgreasePeople from florida are a weird bunch17:48
MrHairgreaseIf I understand correctly whales is also the Vegas lingo for the filthy rich17:49
MrHairgreasewho spend tons in the casino's17:49
snapcountthis is true17:49
MrHairgreaseSo the whole walking whale thing make ssense17:49
MrHairgreaserendering it very very unfunny =)17:50
snapcountyou got me on a technicality17:50
MrHairgreasegreat isn't it =)17:50
snapcountso, if your sailing through the desert....17:50
MrHairgreaseno that again17:50
* snapcount crawls back into his perl module17:51
MrHairgreasegood boy17:51
snapcountmy $var;19:09
snapcountforeach $var (@craphole) {}19:09
snapcountprint $var;19:09
snapcountshouldn't $var have the last value from the loop?19:09
snapcountit's not in local scope to the loop because it's declared outside19:10
snapcountI need some eduemacation19:10
WRE<MrHairgrease> http://tinyurl.com/qqclj19:19
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snapcountFrank explained19:20
snapcountI get it19:20
snapcountthanks though19:20
snapcountok... I need recommendations on how to accomplish this in the 'cleanest' way19:39
snapcountb/c right now all of my solutions are ugly19:39
snapcountfor Matt, who is late to the party19:39
snapcount[12:09] <snapcount> my $var;19:39
snapcount[12:09] <snapcount> foreach $var (@craphole) {}19:39
snapcount[12:09] <snapcount> print $var;19:39
MrHairgreaseyou want to have $var set to the last element of craphole?19:40
snapcountI need to access the last value from the loop itteration19:40
MrHairgreasetwo options:19:40
snapcountI need the last craphole19:40
MrHairgrease$var = $craphole[-1]19:41
pbmdawgmy $var = $craphole[-1];19:41
MrHairgreaseor just use another variable for the iteration19:41
MrHairgreaseand set $var to it every time19:41
MrHairgreasewhich is not pretty btw.19:41
snapcountwhich would you rather see if you were trying to figure out someones hackery?19:42
MrHairgreaseYou can also use a for loop19:42
snapcountthat's the solution I came up with19:42
snapcountit was nasty19:42
MrHairgreaseI would go for the -1 index19:42
MrHairgreaseand put a comment above it19:42
snapcountyou concurr19:43
snapcountand stuff19:43
pbmdawgyeah, since that's the solution I suggested.19:43
snapcountblah blah blah19:43
snapcountalrighty then... you guys retain your status as being cool19:43
snapcountgood job19:43
crythiaswhales are mammals19:45
crythiasmammals have hair19:46
crythiasitchy hair needs dandruff shampoo19:46
crythiasa famous whale is called Shamu19:46
snapcountcrythias, you will always trump me when it comes to being the most random19:46
* crythias provides radnomosity in crythian proportions.19:47
crythiasvar $mammal=$whale[-1];19:50
crythiasprint $mammal;19:50
crythiasOutput: "Shamu"19:50
crythiasah, yeah. I did it.19:51
* snapcount flares his nostirls19:51
* crythias struts in a way a chicken would strut if the chicken were human and not selfconscious.19:51
* crythias plays with random tinyurls...19:53
crythiasLet's just say some of them are definitely nsfw.19:53
pbmdawgDer Kommissar20:09
crythiasoh oh20:09
pbmdawgDon't turn around20:10
crythiasoh oh.20:10
pbmdawgKommissar's in town.20:10
* crythias is dancing to the BEP. aw yeah...pump it.20:11
pbmdawgWhip it good.20:13
pbmdawgLove My Way - The Psychedelic Furs20:20
pbmdawgTrue - Spandau Ballet20:23
pbmdawgSo True, funny how it seems20:23
pbmdawgalways on time, but never enough for dreams20:23
pbmdawgheard on plainblack.com - "Well, slap me with a kipper!"20:24
pbmdawgI Want To Know What Love Is - Foreigner20:28
pbmdawgTake Me Home Tonight/Be My Baby - Eddie Money20:34
crythiasdo what?20:34
pbmdawgBeds Are Burning - Midnight Oil20:37
crythiasall the leaves are brown.20:38
crythiasand the sky is gray.20:38
pbmdawghow do we sleep while our beds our burning20:38
pbmdawghow can we dance when our earth is turning20:38
crythiason a winter's day?20:39
crythiasc'mon everybody, let's dance!20:39
crythiasCalifornia Dreamin on such a winter's day!20:39
pbmdawgA Matter Of Trust - Billy Joel20:43
pbmdawgSay It Isn't So - The Outfield20:49
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snapcountoh wait21:27
snapcountthat's backwards21:27
crythiasfinally found out why my bandiwdth got eaten up21:27
snapcountbandwidth monster?21:28
crythiassome genius in north carolina sat on my home page for 12437 hits because of my refreshing webcam image ...21:29
crythiasthe page refreshed every 30 seconds.21:29
crythiasI killed that, and renamed the file.21:30
crythiasbut I did that before I knew who was syphoning my traffic.21:30
crythias179MB of transfer for the one file21:31
crythiasnot anymore.21:31
crythiasanyway, I gathered that info from my new host.21:32
crythiastime to block an IP address21:33
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BaylinkMorning, all.  So my 6.8.0 WRE still refuses to find ExtUtils/XSBuilder/ParseSource.pm, whatever that's supposed to be.  Any thoughts?  I decided to go with WRE, over my personal objection to not having components live where I want them, precisely to avoid this sort of thing; is that an unreasonable approach?21:41
Baylink(I'm building from source on SuSE 9.3, as I noted on the forum.21:42
Baylinksnapcount: the wre sourcebuild should be expected to be completely independent of everything on the machine except those 6 or 7 super-prereq's, right?21:46
MrHairgreaseDid you try to install ExtUtils::XSBuilder::ParseSource manually?21:47
BaylinkI'm guessing that's part of a perl module package?  No, I didn't.  As noted, I'm using WRE at all precisely because I don't want to spend 2 weeks getting married to (by actual count from two years ago) 16 open-source codebases. to get the package running.  If WRE 0.6 is not supposed to be that rugged, and I was told it was, then I'll wait for WG7.21:53
BaylinkAnd the whole "having to wait 3 hours while the build starts over from scratch" part doesn't thrill me either.  At least if I'm doing it by hand, no one's end-running make.21:55
BaylinkI believe the "why are you waiting for 7.0 instead of running the gamma" poll missed a reply: "because gamma releases have insufficient attention paid to release configuration management."21:56
MrHairgreaseDamn man.22:06
MrHairgreaseI just tried to help out22:06
BaylinkI know.22:06
MrHairgreaseno to initiate some friggin flame fest22:06
MrHairgreaseI you rather compile by hand22:06
MrHairgreasedo tjust that22:06
BaylinkI wasn't flaming, really.22:06
MrHairgreaseIt must be your choice of words22:07
BaylinkNope.  I was sold "we'll do all the dependencies, so you don't have to".  And that's not what I've got.22:07
MrHairgreaseOr my lck of interpretation22:07
BaylinkNot your fault, certainly.22:07
MrHairgreaseIf there's a bug in wre, which is very possible due to the nature of software, please submit it.22:08
MrHairgreaseAnyway I'm going afk22:08
BaylinkI'm not sure whether that *constitutes* a bug, hence my attempt to get snapcount to clarify; clearly, he's busy working.22:08
MrHairgreaseI have to go to the Drink Or Die Barstool Blues Night at de Koornbeurs22:08
BaylinkWell, far be it from me.  :-)22:09
BaylinkYou're the SQLForm guy, no?22:09
MrHairgreaseYeah I am22:09
MrHairgreaseTried it?22:09
BaylinkWanting to play with that is specifically what made me break down and try to install pre-7.0.  So this *is* your fault.  :-)22:09
nubaheh MrHairgrease seems you are forever guilty now :)22:10
BaylinkIt's them guinea pigs as sticks their heads up over the cube walls... :-)22:12
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* crythias dances a little jig.23:22
crythiasahh yeah23:23
snapcountFedora Core 4?23:34
crythiasIt's all good, and I'm gone.23:34
Baylinksnapcount: see above?  There's a specific query in there for you, amongst the ranting... :-)23:35
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snapcountI'm not seeing the tree for the forrest it seems23:36
Baylink[14:46:25] <Baylink> snapcount: the wre sourcebuild should be expected to bern                     completely independent of everything on the machinern                     except those 6 or 7 super-prereq's, right?rn23:37
snapcountoh I see23:37
BaylinkBy which I meant the compilers and syslibs.23:37
snapcountyes... that's the end goal23:37
snapcountI ran into this problem this weekend23:37
BaylinkAnd that goal is known to be less well achieved than would be preferred?  :-)23:38
BaylinkNote, BTW, that https://www.plainblack.com/wre/building talks about -core.  I assume that's really -source?23:38
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snapcountwell, what you found is a bug23:38
snapcountthat is pretty easy to work around23:38
snapcountif you're using FC423:38
snapcountI posted a binary23:38
BaylinkIs that a CPAN-able thing?23:39
snapcountor, I can tell you the work around23:39
BaylinkShoot.  :-)23:39
snapcountWhich O/S are you using?23:39
BaylinkSuSE 9.2,
BaylinkExcuse: 9.323:40
snapcountok... so we haven't made a binary for you23:40
BaylinkNope; source building.23:40
snapcountyou need to install the missing module using the WRE version of Perl23:41
pbmdawgroy: which module is missing23:41
snapcountand I'm not sure it's missing actually23:42
snapcountI haven't looked23:42
snapcountthe real problem is this23:42
Baylink... yes?  :-)23:42
snapcountthe install perlmodules part of build.sh23:43
snapcountfails on SOAP::Lite23:43
snapcountwhen that happens23:43
snapcountbuild.sh should stop23:43
snapcountit doesn't23:43
snapcountit starts building libapreq223:43
snapcountwhich needs ExtUtils::XSBuilder::ParseSource23:43
Baylinkwhich comes from SOAP::Lite.23:43
snapcountI'm not sure about that23:44
BaylinkI'm going to go patch build.sh to log all it's output; I was in screen, and can't scrool back far enough.23:44
snapcountif you run the installPerlModules script23:44
snapcountby it's self23:44
snapcountyou will see that it still has work to do23:44
snapcountthings like DBI, etc also are not installed23:45
BaylinkIs that build.sh thing permanent, or does someone plan to replace it with make eventually?23:46
snapcountwell, nothing is permanent if there is a better solution out there with someone willing to do it23:47
BaylinkGot it.  Well, I've just tweaked build.sh to at least log everything.  I don't know if I'm enough of a make-maven to get it to work properly atop the remainder of the makefiles, but I'll look.23:49
BaylinkWhat's the lightest-weight way to submit that build.sh change?  Mail it to the -dev list?23:50
snapcountfor logging?23:50
snapcountyeah, the dev list23:50
snapcountYou should probably post about your idea for make as well23:51
snapcountand why it's better than what we have23:51
snapcountyou probably want to get some support on the list before spending a lot of time on it23:51
snapcountI think your biggest obstacle is going to be that JT and I are far from make experts23:52
snapcountand we have to maintain the WRE23:52
snapcountthat's not to say we can't/won't learn23:52
snapcountyou'll have to have a good argument23:52
snapcountthat's all I'm saying23:53
BaylinkUnderstood.  But if lots of people are going to be building from source, you're going to want to find *some* way for us not to have to rerun the *entire* build everytime.23:53
BaylinkEspecially since there are lots of prompts *in the middle*.23:53
snapcountyou know that you can run individual components right?23:53
BaylinkMy argument is that the sales pitch for WRE is "It Just Works".23:53
snapcount./build.sh --apache --mysql23:53
BaylinkYeah, I saw that.  Since I don't know how to tell when a module has completed successfully, I'm not sure they help me.23:54
BaylinkAgain: the whole point is to *avoid8 my having to get married to 42 build processes.23:54
BaylinkThis is the major failing of componentized software, IMO.23:54
snapcountwell, having a logging/verbosity type feature sounds like a good idea to me23:55
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snapcountwe might have a new volunteer00:14
BaylinkWho, me?  :-)00:27
snapcountI was referring to a different person but we'll take all the help we can get00:34
BaylinkNaw; JT and I can only deal with one another in limited amounts.00:38
snapcountToo Alpha personalities eh00:39
BaylinkNot so much that; it's cases.  My view of it is that he and I have differing perceptions of how making a living off an OSS project ought to bear on interactions with a developer/user community.00:41
BaylinkIt's not uncommon; Isaac from MythTV does many of the same things, and he's *not* charging people money.00:41
snapcountThis project is run a little differently00:42
BaylinkBut for a package that's so head and shoulders above everything else in it's market, WG seems to have much smaller a visible community than I'd expect.00:42
BaylinkYeah; that's a good way to put it.00:42
BaylinkDoing what he's doing without giving off the appearance of soliciting free labor for your commercial product is a difficult line to walk.  I may be alone in thinking so, but he doesn't do it as well as I'd like to see.  (For whatever that's worth :-)00:43
BaylinkSO, back to cases: is that SOAP thing because I've failed to modify the installation grid that CPAN presents me with?00:49
snapcountI'm not sure what the deal is00:51
snapcountI had to say no to the XML prereq00:51
snapcountthat is prompted after the SOAP Grid00:51
snapcountand everything worked fine00:51
BaylinkThat's not the default answer, then?00:51
snapcountI need to look into it further00:51
BaylinkGot it.  Someone should add that note to https://www.plainblack.com/wre/building, as well as checking on -core/-source.00:51
WRE<Baylink> http://tinyurl.com/nheyh00:52
snapcountand patch it up so it works again00:52
snapcountI plan on working on this next week00:52
snapcountI'm going to improve the documentation as well00:52
BaylinkWell, thanks, bot, but I don't like tinyurl anyway.  :-) // Cool.  I'll let you know if that change works when it comes around again on the guitar.  You don't remember the exact question, do you?00:53
snapcountNo... sorry00:53
snapcountit asks if you want to prepend XML::Something00:53
snapcountbefore building SOAP00:54
snapcountif you say no, it works00:54
Baylink'k; I'll take my changes.  Hmmm.  I think I told cpan to Follow instead of Asking, was that bad?00:54
snapcountthat will automatically prepend prereqs00:54
BaylinkWHich means I'm screwed and I have to kill my build and go purge CPAN.  Got it.00:55
snapcountit's not just a job00:55
snapcountit's an adventure00:55
BaylinkYeah, but they give you clean socks.  :-)  I don't suppose you know CPAN well enough to tell me where in it's .cpan crap to toggle just that bit?00:56
snapcountthe only way I know00:56
snapcountis to re-run the config00:56
snapcounto conf00:56
snapcountsomething to that effect00:56
snapcountmake sure you're using the WRE perl00:56
BaylinkOh yeah; that won't flush my prebuild.  I'm not using anything.  build.sh is using things.00:57
BaylinkSee why this is so hard for people who don't carry the whole build around in their head?00:57
Baylinkand JT tends to forget that, I think, because *he* does.00:57
snapcount. source/wre/wre/setenvironment00:57
snapcountthat may not be the exact path00:58
snapcountbut if you run that, your shell will have the same env as the build script00:58
snapcountand manual steps will work00:58
snapcount(like running cpan)00:58
BaylinkOh.  Which is why cpan launched right into config.00:58
snapcountif you type perl -V00:58
snapcountI think you'll see its in /usr/bin00:58
snapcountwhich is not what you want00:58
Baylink5.8.6; libs in the system places.  Yeah.00:59
snapcountthose should all start with /data/wre/...00:59
BaylinkOh.  In the *target*, not in the *build* tree.01:00
snapcountyeah... it's using the perl it makes01:00
snapcountin the beginning01:00
snapcountit has to 01:00
snapcountkinda confusing01:00
BaylinkNo, I meant that setenvironment should be expected to be in /data?  Or in /usr/build/wrebuild?01:01
BaylinkI'm having trouble finding it anywhere.01:01
snapcountit should be in wrebuild/wre/wre/somewhere-in-here01:01
snapcountrun it like this01:02
snapcount. /path/to/script01:02
BaylinkAnd *now* cpan thinks it's configure.  THanks.01:02
snapcountsure thing01:03
BaylinkYeah; been writing bourne scripts for 25 years.  :-)01:03
snapcountoh ok01:03
snapcountthen you know why01:03
snapcountmost people don't get that and it causes them problems01:03
BaylinkYep.  See, this is the other thing: JT tends to assume (in my perception) that if you don't know every detail of WG internals, that you don't know much.01:03
BaylinkThat's *really* annoying.  :-)01:03
snapcounthe's an acquired personality01:04
snapcountbut he means well01:04
BaylinkWell, his package is great.  But did you ever read Jerry Pournelle describing Vulcan (dBase I) as "infuriatingly excellent"?01:05
Baylink"o conf init", btw01:05
snapcountthat's it01:05
snapcountI can't remember it all01:05
snapcountI have to look stuff up01:05
BaylinkNote that "follow" *is the default* for cpan; the notes should be changed to reflect that as well.01:06
BaylinkI hadn't *thought* I was making that up.  :-)01:07
snapcountI think follow is okay, as long as it's set to ask first01:07
BaylinkIf you say follow, it *won't* ask; I think that what it means, anyway.01:08
snapcountoh ok01:08
BaylinkHence the problem.01:08
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BaylinkHey, JT.01:08
* rizen howdy01:09
* rizen what's the topic for?01:09
* rizen just cuz no one had anything better to say?01:09
* Baylink looks, than scratches head. :-)01:09
snapcountwhy are you talking in actions01:09
chansenI also wondered that when I joined01:09
* snapcount tells you to stop that01:09
* rizen hmmm...it's a new irc client01:09
* rizen no idea why01:09
BaylinkWe think we've nailed down a couple minor tweaks to https://www.plainblack.com/wre/building that will make life easier.01:10
-!- snapcount changed the topic of #WebGUI to: Why was this the topic?01:10
* rizen stop that01:10
-!- chansen changed the topic of #WebGUI to: WebGUI - http://www.plainblack.com/webgui01:11
* chansen looks better IMO01:11
* rizen test01:11
* rizen on my screen everyone is talking in actions01:12
snapcountthis is kinda funny01:12
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chansenI agree01:12
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* rizen let's see, is this any better01:12
snapcountwhat client are you using?01:12
* rizen stupid irc client...ok switching to another one01:12
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snapcountstupid irc client01:13
snapcountnever heard of that one01:13
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BaylinkThere you go01:16
PlainBlackGuyit's too bad cuz i hate this chat client01:16
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PlainBlackGuyOh well01:16
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chansenIf you want a decent GUI client for OS X, give X-Chat Aqua a try01:17
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PlainBlackGuyi just downloaded colloquy01:23
PlainBlackGuygoing to give that a try in a sec01:23
PlainBlackGuythen i'll try xchat01:23
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jtsmiththis ain't half bad01:25
snapcountr u on mac?01:26
chansenAdium is also a very popular client, does IRC and all major IM protocols01:27
jtsmithadium doesn't do irc01:28
jtsmithi have used adium for over a year01:28
jtsmiththey recommend colloquy01:28
chansenthen I'm sorry, I heard by someone that there was a IRC plugin01:29
jtsmithno problem at all01:30
jtsmithhonestly colloquy seems pretty cool01:30
chansenI use Proteus and X-Chat Aqua, quite happy with both01:30
jtsmithit's pretty and functional01:30
chansenI have it installed, but I seem to prefer xchat, which also comes with an embedded perl interpreter :)01:32
jtsmithfor as little as i use irc, i'm not sure what good a perl interpreter would do me, but if i decide i want to do something cool, i'll certainly keep that in mind01:32
jtsmithi have to send in my mac for some repairs shortly anyway01:33
jtsmiththe power connection has been giving me trouble01:33
snapcountyou could use BitchX01:33
chansenjtsmith: pb pro?01:33
chansenI thought the new power connector should be flawless01:34
chansenIt definitely looks cool though01:34
jtsmiththat's on the macbook pro01:35
jtsmithi have one of the powerbook pro's from last summer01:35
jtsmithfrom before they started offering the magnetic thingy01:35
chansenok, same here01:35
chansenFTR, the old one was only powerbook01:36
WRE<chansen> http://tinyurl.com/gryqa01:39
snapcountIt seems as though this process thingy no workie for checkboxes02:11
snapcountcan you confirm or deny these scathing allegations02:11
jtsmithcould you post the line of code you're using to process?02:12
snapcountI guess02:12
snapcount@pids = $self->session->form->process("subEventPID", "checkbox");02:12
snapcountit has to be a checklist02:13
jtsmiththe reason is that you're not creating a single solitary check box, are you?02:13
jtsmithyou're creating a bunch of check boxes that all use the same name, right?02:13
snapcounta collection of single solitary checkboxes02:13
snapcounteach with the same name02:13
jtsmithyes, but that is a checkList by definition02:13
snapcountthe checkList won't allow me to display additional information on the same row02:14
jtsmithdid i say you should use checkList for displaying it02:14
jtsmithi don't think i did02:14
jtsmithdo you want me to have the court reporter read back to you what i said02:14
snapcountso I can define a bunch of checkList controls with the same name02:14
snapcountbut use checkList with formProcessor?02:14
jtsmithstop confusing yourself02:14
snapcountnot checklist02:14
jtsmithwe have not been talking about display02:15
jtsmithonly processing02:15
jtsmithso yes, use checkList for processing02:15
jtsmithand don't change anything about your display02:15
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pbmdawgxdanger: what's the url for the logs for this room02:29
pbmdawgI always forget it.02:29
pbmdawgroy; stop spamming the room with your pics02:31
pbmdawgand how'd you convince someone to take a picture of you doing that02:32
WRE"People make suggestions on what to say all the time. I'll give you an example; I don't read what's handed to me. People say, 'Here, here's your speech, or here's an idea for a speech.' They're changed. Trust me."02:49
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crythiasthis box is empty. If you click the button, nothing will happen, but a kitten will die.05:56
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perlDreamersnapcount: you awake?07:47
perlDreamer!lastSpoke snapcount07:54
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rizenI've decided that we should scrap WebGUI 7 and just have everyone convert to OpenCMS17:41
rizenman...nobody here to even laugh at me for telling a bad joke17:42
crythiaswhy not dotnuke17:42
rizenThat's fine too.17:42
rizenAlthough, I think the best CMS has to be Joomla.17:43
rizenAt least thats what all the script kiddies keep telling me.17:43
crythiasYou know, I have to tell you that WebGUI is rather well organized. I can actually find reasonably quick what I need.17:43
crythiasCompared to sugar crm, for instance17:44
rizenIs that just cuz you're used to it?17:44
rizenOr because it actually is?17:44
crythiasnice program, but try to edit it...17:44
crythiasIt just is. it's not that hard. assets are together, and they're not huge. 17:45
crythias(1st post was re: Sugar CRM. 2nd was response to you)17:45
rizenI've used SugarCRM as a demo17:46
rizenand it seemed pretty good17:46
rizenit certainly has a lot of features17:46
rizeni haven't tried to look at the code though17:46
rizenand i haven't tried to actually use it in a production env17:47
crythiaslots of includes .. everywhere.17:47
rizendon't they have to do that though?17:47
rizenisn't it written in php?17:47
rizenand i think they must have started on it before PHP had classes/objects/packages/namespaces or whatever17:48
rizenthe new version is supposed to have17:48
crythiasnot as if perl's use aren't everywhere. it's just that it's easy to understand where and what for.17:48
crythiasin WebGUI.17:49
crythiasOK, so I am biased and have a year + on the code of WG17:49
crythiasbut still, everything I learned about WG on my own I did from answering questions on /discuss17:50
crythiasthe only thing that I am currently confused about re: the code is it seems that there are several places for that i18n stuff.17:51
crythiashelp + labels17:51
rizenseveral places?17:52
crythiaswell, I'm being picky. help is in one place and labels seem to be in another. 17:52
crythiasI admit it. I'm not familiar with i18n, so take it with a grain of salt.17:53
rizenthat's true, but that's because help is an organizational structure...not actually content17:55
rizenand i18n is content, not an organizational strucuture17:55
rizensee what i mean?17:55
rizenthe i18n system already exists17:55
rizenand help needs to be internationalized17:55
rizenso why re-invent the wheel17:56
crythiaschanging subject. if you change the url for an object, does the old url go to the old instance?17:56
crythiasobject: asset17:56
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perlDreamersnapcount: ping17:57
perlDreamer!lastSpoke snapcount17:57
WREsnapcount last uttered a word on #webgui 15 hours, 26 minutes ago.17:57
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rizenit goes to the new version17:58
rizenas it should17:58
rizenotherwise you'd have people browsing outdated content17:58
snapcountIs it normal to be developing something and constantly want to change it or to start second guessing your design.18:33
snapcountBecause right now I'm starting to feel like there are better ways to do what I'm doing18:33
rizenfor instance: WebGUI 6.x18:34
snapcountIt seems as though acting on these impulses will prevent me from ever finishing it... 18:34
snapcountso how do you handle that?18:34
rizenthey will18:34
snapcountignore them18:34
rizenthat's why you continue on with your original design18:34
rizenand then evolve it18:34
snapcountso make it work first18:34
rizenfinish it18:34
snapcountthen improve18:34
rizenthen change18:34
snapcountthat sounds like a good idea18:35
rizenevolutionary beats revolutionary every damn time18:35
snapcountI've never seen so many db queries in one .pm before18:35
snapcountthis thing is going to move at special olympic speed I fear18:35
snapcountoh well... make it work first18:36
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rizenok colin, let's give it a whirl\19:12
rizenwhat did you want to talk about19:12
perlDreamerokay, Roy's bug is that he can only get strings out of a checkList19:12
perlDreamerI think the problem is inside Session::Form::process, line 20519:13
perlDreamerIt calls all forms in scalar context, which makes them return strings separated by newlines19:13
perlDreamerThe only way to get the forms to return an array is to call them in array context19:15
perlDreamerthey don't return array refs19:15
rizenyou're right19:15
rizenit needs to do something similar to the param() method19:15
perlDreamerthat sound cool?19:16
rizencan we still say this is roy's fault?19:16
perlDreamerIf he wouldn't go finding bugs, we wouldn't have to fix them19:16
rizenso are you going to do this fix, or do you want me to do it?19:17
perlDreamerready for bug#2?19:17
perlDreamerThere was a bug submitted where Text fields could contain data with newlines if it was pasted into the form.19:18
perlDreamerSo I added a filter inside getValueFromPost which scrubs the newlines and carriage returns19:18
perlDreamerNow, when form ->process is called, if a form type isn't passed in, it defaults to using Text19:19
perlDreamerand that's how a lot of the form params in the DataForm are fetched, using Text instead of Integer, Textarea, etc.19:19
perlDreamerSo for fields where you enter in data with 1 value per line, they were all concatenated together19:19
perlDreamerand all List type things (possibleValues, defaultValues) all broke19:20
perlDreamerI submitted a SF bug for it19:20
rizenso change the default type to textarea19:20
rizenand be done19:20
rizensound good?19:21
rizenor is there a problem with that?19:21
perlDreamerbut that passes any special handling done by text-like fields like Integer, etc.19:21
rizenbecause if you're using a special field19:21
rizenthen you should be specifying that field type on the get19:21
rizen$session->form->process('field', 'integer');19:21
perlDreamerIn the DataForm, most of them aren't19:21
rizenthat's a problem for the dataform then19:21
rizennot for webgui19:21
rizeni guess what i'm saying is19:22
rizendon't fix webgui19:22
rizenwhen it's the dataform that's broken19:22
perlDreamerright, but I think we should comb the code and look for other errors like that.19:22
perlDreamersince the DataForm worked fine in 6.819:22
perlDreamerthis is 6.9 specific19:22
rizenok...but you broke it, right?19:22
rizenby adding this new check in?19:22
rizenit's easy to confirm19:23
rizentake out the new check19:23
perlDreamer6.8 works19:23
rizensee if it starts working again19:23
rizenwho gives a crap about 6.819:23
rizentake out this new check19:23
rizensee if it starts working again19:23
rizenthen you'll know if this new check is breaking it19:23
rizenit probably worked in 5.2 also19:24
rizenin the greater scheme, that doesn't matter19:24
rizena lot has changed since then19:24
perlDreamerback in 6.8, it accessed the form variables directly19:24
rizenand a lot has changed since 6.819:24
rizenwe need to find out what's broken in 7.019:24
rizennot what worked in 6.819:24
rizenthat new check you put in19:25
rizenwill cause lots of problem19:25
rizenespecially if we leave the default type to text19:25
rizenif we change the default type to textarea19:25
rizenthen it shouldn't be as big of a deal19:26
rizeneither that19:26
rizenor we don't give it a default type19:26
rizenbut instead just return the raw value19:26
rizenif no type is specified19:26
rizenthe raw value from the param() method19:26
perlDreamerWhat about forcing a type to be used?19:26
rizenthere's a lot of times when you just want the raw value19:26
rizenyou don't care about any kind of processing19:27
perlDreamerthen you should call param, not process19:27
rizenok, fair enough19:27
rizendoes that mean you want to go through the 150k lines of webgui19:27
rizenand find out which is which?19:27
rizenor do you want to just change process19:27
rizenso it returns param()19:27
rizenif nothing is specified for type19:27
perlDreamerthat would be less work19:28
perlDreamerand achieve the same result19:28
* crythias is going to be in Chicago July 9-1519:28
rizeni don't often go with the right answer19:28
rizeni go with the answer that works19:28
rizenmaybe i shouldn't do that19:28
rizenbut i think we get more done 19:28
crythiasheh. It gets me into trouble.19:28
perlDreamerwell, we've done a lot of the "right answer" work lately (Assets, session)19:28
rizenand we end up with a more usable product in the end19:28
rizenyou're right19:29
rizenwe have19:29
perlDreamerAnd I know you're more tired than I am19:29
perlDreamersince I don' t have to deal with customers19:29
rizeni'm getting my second wind now19:29
rizeni've got lots of "business" stuff to attend to this week19:29
rizenbut starting next week I'm going to kick it in the ass again19:29
rizenand i think there should be some major progress19:30
* perlDreamer orders cast-iron underwear19:30
rizenespecially now that runHourly has been completely converted to workflow19:30
rizenthat was a big pig19:30
perlDreamerso do you want to split the two fixes?19:31
rizeni can just do them both19:32
rizenthey're both easy19:32
perlDreamerafter you check in, let me know and I'll retest and close out my DataForm bug19:32
rizenone done19:33
rizennot checked int though19:33
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snapcountI'm late to the party19:36
snapcountdid we come up with a solution for the process method that makes everyone all warm and fuzzy inside19:37
perlDreamerjust scroll up19:37
snapcountlooks like a novel up there19:37
perlDreamerYeah, I'm too verbose19:37
perlDreamerhere's a summary19:37
perlDreamerwe have two bugs19:37
perlDreamerJT will fix them19:37
perlDreamerThen he's going to kick ass19:38
perlDreamerI'm buying cast-iron underwear19:38
perlDreamerMatt is whipped19:38
snapcountI like summaries19:38
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perlDreamerthere yo ugo19:38
rizendon't forget you're ordering iron underware19:38
rizenand that gerald will be in chicago19:38
perlDreamerOh, yeah19:38
rizentwo key points19:38
perlDreamerI've seen your feet dude.19:38
perlDreamerI don't want to be in the line of fire19:38
rizenchecked in19:41
rizengerald, are you coming to chicago to burn it to the ground?19:41
snapcountBeerPerson: FYI, we submitted the group applications like you asked19:41
perlDreamerrizen:  I tested the fixes.  In the DataForm I can generate a select List that works, but doesn't have any default values set.19:43
perlDreamerI'll try debugging it today as I get some time19:43
rizenwhy do you insist on troubling me?19:44
perlDreamerbad upbringing19:44
snapcountperlDreamer: WebGUI < $dayJob =)19:44
snapcountis that what you're telling us?19:44
perlDreamerIt's a tragedy19:45
perlDreamerbut true19:45
perlDreamerespecially since they gave me a chip to work on19:45
snapcountdo you get to use the laser on it?19:45
perlDreamerOnly if it's broken19:45
snapcountI could never work there... I would use the laser on everything19:46
perlDreamerIt's not very portable19:46
snapcountI would still use it on everything19:46
perlDreamerSnapcount's DIY Tattoo parlor19:46
rizencolin, i need you to design a non-silicon based solar panel for me19:46
rizencan do you that?19:46
perlDreamerIt would be very expensive since it's not in silicon19:47
rizensilicon is expensive19:47
rizeni need one made of plastic19:47
rizenalso, silcon is not as durable as plastic19:47
* snapcount scratches his head19:47
rizencuz i want to use it as roofing material19:47
rizenwhy are you scratching your head19:48
snapcountdo you guys get enough sun where you live for it to be worth it19:48
snapcountI have fleas19:48
crythiasnope. not burning down Chicago. Just a conference.19:48
crythiasroy uses shamu19:49
rizenwe get enough sun, yes19:49
rizenespecially if i can use this stuff as siding and roofing19:49
snapcountlast time I was there, all the roofs were covered with white matter19:49
rizencover my whole house in it19:49
perlDreamerplastic breaks down in sunlight19:49
rizenok, then while you're at it, make me a new plastic that doesn't break down in sunlight19:50
snapcountwe don't want excuses perlDreamer19:50
snapcountjust make it work19:50
perlDreamerSilly me, trying to obey the law of physics19:50
rizeni need to make an electric house19:50
rizenthat can charge the electric car i want to build19:50
* crythias reads new digg headline: Scientists find that asbestos makes better solar panel than silicon. Mesothelioma victims cough up a lung in support.19:50
snapcounthow about wind power... (since you live in the windy city)19:50
rizenit's named the windy city because of the politicians19:51
rizennot due to weather19:51
snapcountdon't make me look that up19:51
rizengo ahead19:51
rizenit's true19:51
WRE<rizen> http://tinyurl.com/o8l5e19:52
-!- pbmdawg [n=SysAdmin@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui19:53
rizeni don't want to hear your facts19:53
rizenyou should go with the truth that "feels" right19:53
-!- pbmdawg is now known as pbmdawg_whipped19:54
snapcountmy article supports your claims to some degree19:54
crythiasOriginally called the "Windy City" because the city bragged about the 1893 World Expo that was held there. The term has since come to refer to the strong northern winds that blow off the lake in the winter.19:54
snapcounthowever, it suggest earliest origins were in fact due to weather19:54
snapcountbut I must agree19:55
rizenyeah, the article i put there cites that too19:55
snapcountthe politicians seem to have popularized the term19:55
crythiasLet no dead vote go uncounted.19:55
snapcountrizen is one of those people you don't play trivial pursuit with19:55
rizenwhy do you say that?19:55
snapcountyou know too many random facts19:56
rizenIs it because it's a little known fact that people used to burn down their houses when they moved, so they could recover the nails, because nails were very expensive.19:56
snapcountmore expensive than lumber19:56
snapcountthat's interesting19:56
rizenfar more expensive19:57
snapcounthere's a fun fact19:57
rizenyou had to refine metal19:57
snapcountcalc urine19:57
WREurine = <pb_M-Train> Did you know that all humans can urinate through their navels?19:57
-!- pbmdawg_whipped is now known as pbmdawg_nailed19:57
rizeni suppose19:57
snapcounthe says you can breath through your ears as well19:57
rizensince that's how you do it when you're in the womb19:57
crythiasScientist: "Did you know that if you put a nail in a bottle of cola, it will dissolve?" Blonde in the back of the room: "Do we have to use a real nail, or can it be a press-on?"19:57
* snapcount hears a faint chuckle in the distance19:58
rizenthat's not actually true, on either count19:58
rizenbut funny none-the-less19:58
snapcountthe EMS will now handle an infinite number of subevents19:59
snapcountalthough, if they are deeply nested20:00
snapcountyou will see many prompts20:00
* crythias tried to reach infinity, once. I took a long time, but never reached it. I'll try again next year.20:00
snapcountthe key is to keep trying20:01
snapcounteverytime you stop20:01
snapcountit gets further away20:01
rizenI tried to contain myself, but I escaped.20:01