WebGUI irc logs from: 2013-11.log

--- Log opened Fri Nov 01 00:00:42 2013
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Mr_PalmtreeHello. I would like to ask somebody with eperience in installing Virtualmin/Webmin next to WebGUI20:58
Mr_PalmtreeIs there anyone with such a setup present atm?20:59
sbaurnot me, sorry21:00
Mr_Palmtreeno problem. the thing is, I have a live server and a dev server, but the live one is of course containing everything, and also includes running websites... the dev server is an empty box acually21:01
Mr_Palmtreecan i ask something else? WebGUI, if i understand correctly, is unlike cms'ses like joomla and drupal etc., correct?21:02
sbauryes and no21:07
sbaurit is written in perl, so that is different. It is also more a web application platform than a CMS, but it has CMS style attributes21:08
sbaurso it kind of depends of what your personal definition of CMS is21:08
Mr_Palmtreewhat i define a cms, i see as a litteral content management system. so a system that enables me to go "back-end" and write articles (as an example), determine the layout of a page, and click publish21:10
Mr_PalmtreeBut what I want to know, if I understand this correctly... Joomla/Drupal/..... all run in apache as a website on its own, where WebGUI seems to need an actual installation. So would this mean I need to install extra software on my server?21:12
sbaurWebGUI runs best inside it's own (tuned) WebGUI Runtime Environment. However it is possible to run WebGUI using distro supplied applications, but it's not the recommended way21:20
Mr_Palmtreeand this WRE... does it play well with other "managers" on a system, like eg. CPanel (because virtualmin/webmin is actually the same idea as cpanel)21:24
sbaurI don't know, never used it with anything like that21:30
Mr_Palmtreeok, thanks tho, for your collaboration :)21:32
sbaurmaybe if scrottie, bartjol, ckotil, haarg were paying attention, you'd get a bit more info21:33
Mr_Palmtreei will stay tuned, because if a website like cmsmatrix.com has 300.000 views and 250.000 comparisons of webgui alone, and WebGUI comes out on top of a list of more than 400 different cmsses, well, it has to be good, right21:35
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scrottiesorry, what did I miss?23:33
scrottieVirtualmin/Webmin ... haven't touched them.  not familiar with them.23:33
scrottiehaarg knows all however =)23:34
sbaurhopefully he will check the channel23:34
scrottieI need a bot that signs people up for email notifications of replies23:35
Mr_Palmtreeokay, could it be possible to get in touch with haarg, or to get a response somehow?23:45
Mr_Palmtreebecause i am likely to sign off soon, having exams for uni tomorrow :)23:45
scrottieusually saying 'haarg' makes him appear.  I suggest trying here later and saying his name.23:46
Mr_Palmtreehaha, awesome! is that restricted to a certain timeframe, or are there people online here at almost every moment23:47
scrottieI'm usually not around here these days23:47
Mr_Palmtreeokay23:47
scrottiehaarg spends most of his time on the computer and apparently has an alert set on his name23:47
scrottieI do backlog messages here23:47
scrottieso if you ask a question and wait long enough, eventually I will see it23:47
Mr_Palmtreeaah okay, like that, i see23:47
scrottiethe Dutch guys are active when I'm asleep23:48
Mr_PalmtreeI am new to the platform, actually spent the last 2.5 hours setting up a dummy environment 23:48
Mr_Palmtreeoh cool, I am from belgium/the netherlands23:48
scrottiethe install could be a lot more friendly.  did you use Debian's package?23:48
scrottieahh23:48
scrottieBartJol is Dutch23:49
Mr_PalmtreeWell, I did two things... First I set up Virtualmin/Webmin, because that is how my live server is running23:49
scrottiethey host a lot of wG stuff23:49
Mr_PalmtreeAnd now I downloaded the tarball from sourceforge23:49
Mr_Palmtreebut I am running into stragne errors23:49
scrottieare you going for 7 or 8?  8 is alpha (and there are those who claim that it is pre alpha)23:50
Mr_Palmtreecould not execute the wreconsole.pl23:50
Mr_Palmtreeah euhm... let me check, i didnt pay attnetion to that23:50
Mr_Palmtreesourceforge made me download this one: wre-0.9.4-centos-5-ia32.tar.gz23:51
Mr_Palmtreewhich I finf strange, considering I am running ubuntu 12.04 lte23:51
sbaursometimes you will need to open a firewall hole for the port to get to the wreconsole.pl (assuming you couldn't see it as opposed to it wouldn't ru)23:51
Mr_Palmtreelts*23:51
sbaurrun*23:51
scrottieyou don't want the CentOS for Ubuntu.23:51
scrottieer, the CentOS one23:51
Mr_Palmtree(i am running it on an online environment on an actual vps that i recently abandoned, but called back to life to serve as a testing platform for this)23:52
Mr_Palmtreeah, okay!23:52
Mr_Palmtreewhat should i do then? sudo apt-get install webgui ?23:52
Mr_Palmtreethis is what I did before i decided to retry it all23:52
Mr_Palmtreebut I could not find any documentation what-so-ever on how to proceed23:53
scrottieI run the "source install" for development so I'm always a bit unclear on the WRE setup with respect to which versions of things you need23:53
scrottieway too hard.  I did write an installer for wG8 that supports CentOS and Debian.23:53
scrottieuh, hang on23:53
Mr_Palmtreeoow, that could work for me, but the website says: "there is a 300% speed increasement when running wre"23:53
scrottiethat's way out of date.23:53
scrottieignore that.23:53
Mr_Palmtreehaha, okay23:54
Mr_PalmtreeI am glad I came here :)23:54
scrottiethe main problem wG has is the overly difficult install process.23:54
Mr_Palmtreeyes, I agree. as a new user, this is a giganormous maze23:55
scrottieone thing to seriously consider... the Dutch guys have a fork of wG8 called "PlebGUI".  it's wG7 ported to Plack.  that skips Apache and mod_perl and uses the excellent Perl Plack HTTP adapter interface instead.23:55
Mr_Palmtreedoes it modify any currently installed apache/mysql/perl modules?23:56
scrottiemost of PlainBlack's market was highly tuned, very large sites with lots of stuff built on top of it.23:56
scrottieit wouldn't modify other things you have installe.d23:56
scrottieinstalled.23:56
scrottieyou'd have to install a few more perl modules23:56
Mr_Palmtreemore is always okay23:57
scrottieyou should do this:  sudo cpanm Task::WebGUI23:57
Mr_Palmtreemore than enough resources to apply, as long as it doesnt change or uninstall any currently running programs or modules23:57
scrottieare you already running Apache and do you want to be running Apache?23:57
scrottiemy linode is the smallest one they make and I have a dozen services running on it ;)23:58
Mr_Palmtreeyes, i need apache, webmin/virtualmin comes with an enhanced version that ommits the need for var-www and affiliated security issues23:58
scrottiedo you have mod_perl installed already?23:58
Mr_Palmtreeso I cannot replace the current one with another one without much of a hassle23:58
scrottiewell, you could run the plebgui version with that if you used mod_proxy to proxy requests off to it, but that might not be ideal.23:59
Mr_Palmtree(I have to add, I am only using linux actively since this summer)23:59
Mr_Palmtreebefore I always was kind of lazy, and used cpanel23:59
Mr_Palmtreevirtualmin/webmin is free and sort-of opensource23:59
scrottieneed a flow chart to figure out what is the best option =P  the next decision point is whether you have mod_perl, then whether it can be built from source, then whether you're comfortable doing that, or whether you can install it as a package for this version of apache you have installed.23:59
Mr_Palmtreethat's why I changed23:59
--- Day changed Tue Nov 05 2013
Mr_Palmtreemod_perl, this, being an apache module, right?00:00
scrottiecorrect00:00
Mr_Palmtreeone sec00:00
scrottiethe regular webgui7 runs inside of mod_perl, which is perl that loads inside of apache00:00
Mr_Palmtreecurrently I am not using the mod_perl00:01
Mr_PalmtreeIs this good news? 00:02
scrottiewell, you need it for wG700:02
scrottiebut plebgui with mod_proxy instead is another option.00:02
Mr_PalmtreeI have no problem installing it00:02
Mr_PalmtreeI assume adding an apache module is not going to affect websites that do not use it00:02
scrottieI would recommend doing that instead of the WRE.00:03
scrottieI assume not00:03
scrottieif you go down that path, you're basically doing this:  http://www.webgui.org/wiki/source-install00:03
Mr_Palmtreeok, so I should discard the /data/wre folder, and follow the guide you just linked00:03
scrottieexcept rather than download .tar.gz's and compiling them, you're just apt-get installing them.00:04
scrottieyeah.  that's the best bet.  otherwise you'll have two versions of apache fighting over port 80.  not good.00:04
Mr_Palmtreeno, thats bad indeed00:05
scrottiethen instead of wreservice.pl --restart modperl, you just use apachectl directly to restart it, and so on and so forth.00:05
Mr_Palmtreeluckily i have my test environment to playwith00:05
scrottiewithout the WRE, there isn't a script to add new sites, but you can instead copy the example config file from /data/WebGUI/etc/WebGUI.conf.original to www.whatever.com.conf (for example)00:06
scrottieand edit it with a text editor00:06
Mr_Palmtreeso the mod_perl apache module is going to be installed, and this restart you just mentioned... why is that needed?00:06
Mr_Palmtreeif a new site is added?00:06
scrottieno specific reason.  I just wanted to give examples of doing things "manually" rather than using the WRE specific commands.00:07
Mr_Palmtreeah okay, well I wasn't that far in yet00:07
scrottiebasically, the WRE can be handy, but you don't absolutely need it for anything.  there's always another way to do anything it does.00:07
Mr_Palmtreeand these 'other ways'... are they documented anywhere? :)00:08
Mr_Palmtreebecause i have absolutely no problem with trial and error... but a live setting obviously doesn;t allow error00:08
scrottieumm... heh... I don't think they are.  but if you're familiar with Apache and mysql, they're somewhat obvious, if you know what you're trying to do00:08
Mr_Palmtreeghehe, well, that's where the difficulty is... I am not00:09
scrottieokay.  I suggest asking on IRC here if you need to do something and don't know how to do it.00:10
Mr_Palmtreenot a big problem, because I will figure it out eventually, but documentation would have been pleasant... tho, IRC live support is a great way of learning to do something00:10
Mr_PalmtreeI like it when something involves more than just copy-paste00:11
scrottieyou're more than welcome to compile answers into a Wiki page on webgui.org.00:11
scrottiedocumentation for this would be good.00:11
Mr_Palmtreebytheway, google kind of suffocates on the amount of information originating from the irc chat00:12
scrottieaside from perl modules (which Task::WebGUI should get you *almost* all of) and system packages for mod_perl and mysql, the only other thing you should need is the .tar.gz for WebGUI from sourceforge (or a git checkout of the 'webgui-7.10' branch from github)00:12
scrottiefor sure.  IRC is badly unstructured.00:12
Mr_Palmtreeif you put a search term in, that involves any kind of widely knows problem, you get 1M+ results, all from the irc chat00:12
scrottieugh.00:13
Mr_Palmtreeis the git fork for plebGUI stable? or is it in the kind of pre-alpha state that a lot of developers have for their products, and on compilation, there is a big chance of more bugs than there were fixed with the release?00:15
scrottieeverything is in github, including plebgui, the alpha wG8, all of the old versions back to the beginning of time, and the latest stable version of 7.00:16
scrottiethe webgui-7.10 branch is the latest stable version of 7, though.00:16
scrottieif you're trying to actually use the thing, I recommend a version of 7.00:17
Mr_Palmtreehaha00:17
scrottiethought I did slaughter a whole bunch of wG8 admin UI bugs a few weeks ago.00:18
Mr_Palmtreeand do you recommend the plebgui or the webgui for a basic server that is going to host just some simple pages, which might of might not receive a shitloas of traffic :)00:18
Mr_Palmtree(and killing bugs is nice!)00:19
scrottiegiven that you're already running apache, you might as well install mod_perl and run the official wG7.00:19
scrottieif you weren't running anything on port 80, I'd recommend plebgui as it avoids Apache and mod_perl configuration.00:19
Mr_Palmtreeok00:20
scrottieand if you do start getting tons of traffic, we can deal with that when it hapeens.00:20
Mr_Palmtreeif so, i would probably need an upgrade of my vps... but thats for later00:21
Mr_Palmtreecurrently running a vps: 1 GB ram, 40 GB disk, dual core xeon, 4 TB bandwidth for 5EUR per month00:22
Mr_Palmtreeso in the worst case scenario, upgrading would not hurt me00:22
scrottiethat's one way to go.  putting nginx in front of apache to handle the static content would be my first suggestion.  otherwise, you have a ton of memory used to serve static content because each httpd process contains mod_perl and all of the cached data wG uses.00:22
scrottienice.00:23
Mr_Palmtreei can choose which website uses which apache module00:23
Mr_Palmtreethat is a big advantage in virtualmin00:23
Mr_PalmtreeI would like to hear your thoughts on that when applicable, if you don't mind00:24
scrottiehrm.  that may or may not actually save the memory.  not sure.00:24
scrottiedon't know anything about it, but it seems like it would be a lot easier to implement that by revoking access to the module rather than keeping different pools of httpd processes that have different stuff loaded.00:24
Mr_Palmtreeoh, I am probably wrong in that... it does not allow me to turn mod_perl off for specific websites00:27
Mr_Palmtreeso, please, if i may come back on that later, that would be appreciated00:28
Mr_Palmtreefor now, I will first and foremostly try to get it all running on my test environment, and when that is operational, on my live server...but first, i am going to pick up my books and study for my exam tomorrow00:28
scrottieokay, best of luck, on both accounts!00:29
scrottiekeep that "source install" link handy.  that's your basic install road map at this point.00:30
Mr_Palmtreei bookmarked it, thanks00:33
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qwebirc28824Hello. Please help me with backups. I ran a test of backup.pl (perl /data/wre/sbin/backup.pl) after installation and it worked. But after one day has gone by I don't see any additional backups in /backup.18:10
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ckotildid you setup the cronjob to run it?20:04
ckotili dont think it's done for you automatically. could be wrong tho.but i dont see any webgui workflow that performs a backup20:04
qwebirc28824Where is this, 'Add the following cron jobs to your server's cron tab' taken from 'wre installation @ http://www.webgui.org/wiki/wre-installation'20:19
ckotilthose are the crontab entries you need to add20:23
qwebirc28824Where should they be placed? /root20:37
ckotilread up on crontab20:37
ckotilas root , type `crontab -e` to edit the root crontab. OR you may be able to place them /etc/cron.d/ 20:38
ckotilthe syntax is real important with crontab. and file permissions too with /etc/cron.d/20:39
qwebirc28824Thank you.21:40
ckotilyw21:57
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scrottiehaaaaarg.09:11
haargo/09:12
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ckotilusing the ^D d_date macro, can it display the day as '19th' ? you know add the suffix to the number?19:32
ckotili found Date::Format does it like so       %o      ornate day of month -- "1st", "2nd", "25th", etc.19:33
ckotilhrm. ornate must be newer than what the wre has in 0.9.119:37
ckotilaw Date::Format , not DateTime. shux19:39
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sbaurmysql's date_format let's you do it with a %D19:42
sbaurhttp://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/date-and-time-functions.html19:42
sbaurmaybe that will help in your context?19:42
ckotilnot sure how i could work that in. im just calling ^D19:42
ckotilmaybe i could do a mysql call instead via a macro19:43
ckotili just need to print the current date in a nice and friendly format19:43
ckotilhowever just a number will do for now ;)19:44
ckotilthis is what happens when someone needs something NOW19:45
sbauryup, I am familiar with the phenomenon 19:45
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gryHi. Does webGUI support multilingual content? How?23:02
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