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Mr_Palmtree | Hello. I would like to ask somebody with eperience in installing Virtualmin/Webmin next to WebGUI | 20:58 |
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Mr_Palmtree | Is there anyone with such a setup present atm? | 20:59 |
sbaur | not me, sorry | 21:00 |
Mr_Palmtree | no problem. the thing is, I have a live server and a dev server, but the live one is of course containing everything, and also includes running websites... the dev server is an empty box acually | 21:01 |
Mr_Palmtree | can i ask something else? WebGUI, if i understand correctly, is unlike cms'ses like joomla and drupal etc., correct? | 21:02 |
sbaur | yes and no | 21:07 |
sbaur | it is written in perl, so that is different. It is also more a web application platform than a CMS, but it has CMS style attributes | 21:08 |
sbaur | so it kind of depends of what your personal definition of CMS is | 21:08 |
Mr_Palmtree | what i define a cms, i see as a litteral content management system. so a system that enables me to go "back-end" and write articles (as an example), determine the layout of a page, and click publish | 21:10 |
Mr_Palmtree | But what I want to know, if I understand this correctly... Joomla/Drupal/..... all run in apache as a website on its own, where WebGUI seems to need an actual installation. So would this mean I need to install extra software on my server? | 21:12 |
sbaur | WebGUI runs best inside it's own (tuned) WebGUI Runtime Environment. However it is possible to run WebGUI using distro supplied applications, but it's not the recommended way | 21:20 |
Mr_Palmtree | and this WRE... does it play well with other "managers" on a system, like eg. CPanel (because virtualmin/webmin is actually the same idea as cpanel) | 21:24 |
sbaur | I don't know, never used it with anything like that | 21:30 |
Mr_Palmtree | ok, thanks tho, for your collaboration :) | 21:32 |
sbaur | maybe if scrottie, bartjol, ckotil, haarg were paying attention, you'd get a bit more info | 21:33 |
Mr_Palmtree | i will stay tuned, because if a website like cmsmatrix.com has 300.000 views and 250.000 comparisons of webgui alone, and WebGUI comes out on top of a list of more than 400 different cmsses, well, it has to be good, right | 21:35 |
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scrottie | sorry, what did I miss? | 23:33 |
scrottie | Virtualmin/Webmin ... haven't touched them. not familiar with them. | 23:33 |
scrottie | haarg knows all however =) | 23:34 |
sbaur | hopefully he will check the channel | 23:34 |
scrottie | I need a bot that signs people up for email notifications of replies | 23:35 |
Mr_Palmtree | okay, could it be possible to get in touch with haarg, or to get a response somehow? | 23:45 |
Mr_Palmtree | because i am likely to sign off soon, having exams for uni tomorrow :) | 23:45 |
scrottie | usually saying 'haarg' makes him appear. I suggest trying here later and saying his name. | 23:46 |
Mr_Palmtree | haha, awesome! is that restricted to a certain timeframe, or are there people online here at almost every moment | 23:47 |
scrottie | I'm usually not around here these days | 23:47 |
Mr_Palmtree | okay | 23:47 |
scrottie | haarg spends most of his time on the computer and apparently has an alert set on his name | 23:47 |
scrottie | I do backlog messages here | 23:47 |
scrottie | so if you ask a question and wait long enough, eventually I will see it | 23:47 |
Mr_Palmtree | aah okay, like that, i see | 23:47 |
scrottie | the Dutch guys are active when I'm asleep | 23:48 |
Mr_Palmtree | I am new to the platform, actually spent the last 2.5 hours setting up a dummy environment | 23:48 |
Mr_Palmtree | oh cool, I am from belgium/the netherlands | 23:48 |
scrottie | the install could be a lot more friendly. did you use Debian's package? | 23:48 |
scrottie | ahh | 23:48 |
scrottie | BartJol is Dutch | 23:49 |
Mr_Palmtree | Well, I did two things... First I set up Virtualmin/Webmin, because that is how my live server is running | 23:49 |
scrottie | they host a lot of wG stuff | 23:49 |
Mr_Palmtree | And now I downloaded the tarball from sourceforge | 23:49 |
Mr_Palmtree | but I am running into stragne errors | 23:49 |
scrottie | are you going for 7 or 8? 8 is alpha (and there are those who claim that it is pre alpha) | 23:50 |
Mr_Palmtree | could not execute the wreconsole.pl | 23:50 |
Mr_Palmtree | ah euhm... let me check, i didnt pay attnetion to that | 23:50 |
Mr_Palmtree | sourceforge made me download this one: wre-0.9.4-centos-5-ia32.tar.gz | 23:51 |
Mr_Palmtree | which I finf strange, considering I am running ubuntu 12.04 lte | 23:51 |
sbaur | sometimes you will need to open a firewall hole for the port to get to the wreconsole.pl (assuming you couldn't see it as opposed to it wouldn't ru) | 23:51 |
Mr_Palmtree | lts* | 23:51 |
sbaur | run* | 23:51 |
scrottie | you don't want the CentOS for Ubuntu. | 23:51 |
scrottie | er, the CentOS one | 23:51 |
Mr_Palmtree | (i am running it on an online environment on an actual vps that i recently abandoned, but called back to life to serve as a testing platform for this) | 23:52 |
Mr_Palmtree | ah, okay! | 23:52 |
Mr_Palmtree | what should i do then? sudo apt-get install webgui ? | 23:52 |
Mr_Palmtree | this is what I did before i decided to retry it all | 23:52 |
Mr_Palmtree | but I could not find any documentation what-so-ever on how to proceed | 23:53 |
scrottie | I run the "source install" for development so I'm always a bit unclear on the WRE setup with respect to which versions of things you need | 23:53 |
scrottie | way too hard. I did write an installer for wG8 that supports CentOS and Debian. | 23:53 |
scrottie | uh, hang on | 23:53 |
Mr_Palmtree | oow, that could work for me, but the website says: "there is a 300% speed increasement when running wre" | 23:53 |
scrottie | that's way out of date. | 23:53 |
scrottie | ignore that. | 23:53 |
Mr_Palmtree | haha, okay | 23:54 |
Mr_Palmtree | I am glad I came here :) | 23:54 |
scrottie | the main problem wG has is the overly difficult install process. | 23:54 |
Mr_Palmtree | yes, I agree. as a new user, this is a giganormous maze | 23:55 |
scrottie | one thing to seriously consider... the Dutch guys have a fork of wG8 called "PlebGUI". it's wG7 ported to Plack. that skips Apache and mod_perl and uses the excellent Perl Plack HTTP adapter interface instead. | 23:55 |
Mr_Palmtree | does it modify any currently installed apache/mysql/perl modules? | 23:56 |
scrottie | most of PlainBlack's market was highly tuned, very large sites with lots of stuff built on top of it. | 23:56 |
scrottie | it wouldn't modify other things you have installe.d | 23:56 |
scrottie | installed. | 23:56 |
scrottie | you'd have to install a few more perl modules | 23:56 |
Mr_Palmtree | more is always okay | 23:57 |
scrottie | you should do this: sudo cpanm Task::WebGUI | 23:57 |
Mr_Palmtree | more than enough resources to apply, as long as it doesnt change or uninstall any currently running programs or modules | 23:57 |
scrottie | are you already running Apache and do you want to be running Apache? | 23:57 |
scrottie | my linode is the smallest one they make and I have a dozen services running on it ;) | 23:58 |
Mr_Palmtree | yes, i need apache, webmin/virtualmin comes with an enhanced version that ommits the need for var-www and affiliated security issues | 23:58 |
scrottie | do you have mod_perl installed already? | 23:58 |
Mr_Palmtree | so I cannot replace the current one with another one without much of a hassle | 23:58 |
scrottie | well, you could run the plebgui version with that if you used mod_proxy to proxy requests off to it, but that might not be ideal. | 23:59 |
Mr_Palmtree | (I have to add, I am only using linux actively since this summer) | 23:59 |
Mr_Palmtree | before I always was kind of lazy, and used cpanel | 23:59 |
Mr_Palmtree | virtualmin/webmin is free and sort-of opensource | 23:59 |
scrottie | need a flow chart to figure out what is the best option =P the next decision point is whether you have mod_perl, then whether it can be built from source, then whether you're comfortable doing that, or whether you can install it as a package for this version of apache you have installed. | 23:59 |
Mr_Palmtree | that's why I changed | 23:59 |
--- Day changed Tue Nov 05 2013 | ||
Mr_Palmtree | mod_perl, this, being an apache module, right? | 00:00 |
scrottie | correct | 00:00 |
Mr_Palmtree | one sec | 00:00 |
scrottie | the regular webgui7 runs inside of mod_perl, which is perl that loads inside of apache | 00:00 |
Mr_Palmtree | currently I am not using the mod_perl | 00:01 |
Mr_Palmtree | Is this good news? | 00:02 |
scrottie | well, you need it for wG7 | 00:02 |
scrottie | but plebgui with mod_proxy instead is another option. | 00:02 |
Mr_Palmtree | I have no problem installing it | 00:02 |
Mr_Palmtree | I assume adding an apache module is not going to affect websites that do not use it | 00:02 |
scrottie | I would recommend doing that instead of the WRE. | 00:03 |
scrottie | I assume not | 00:03 |
scrottie | if you go down that path, you're basically doing this: http://www.webgui.org/wiki/source-install | 00:03 |
Mr_Palmtree | ok, so I should discard the /data/wre folder, and follow the guide you just linked | 00:03 |
scrottie | except rather than download .tar.gz's and compiling them, you're just apt-get installing them. | 00:04 |
scrottie | yeah. that's the best bet. otherwise you'll have two versions of apache fighting over port 80. not good. | 00:04 |
Mr_Palmtree | no, thats bad indeed | 00:05 |
scrottie | then instead of wreservice.pl --restart modperl, you just use apachectl directly to restart it, and so on and so forth. | 00:05 |
Mr_Palmtree | luckily i have my test environment to playwith | 00:05 |
scrottie | without the WRE, there isn't a script to add new sites, but you can instead copy the example config file from /data/WebGUI/etc/WebGUI.conf.original to www.whatever.com.conf (for example) | 00:06 |
scrottie | and edit it with a text editor | 00:06 |
Mr_Palmtree | so the mod_perl apache module is going to be installed, and this restart you just mentioned... why is that needed? | 00:06 |
Mr_Palmtree | if a new site is added? | 00:06 |
scrottie | no specific reason. I just wanted to give examples of doing things "manually" rather than using the WRE specific commands. | 00:07 |
Mr_Palmtree | ah okay, well I wasn't that far in yet | 00:07 |
scrottie | basically, the WRE can be handy, but you don't absolutely need it for anything. there's always another way to do anything it does. | 00:07 |
Mr_Palmtree | and these 'other ways'... are they documented anywhere? :) | 00:08 |
Mr_Palmtree | because i have absolutely no problem with trial and error... but a live setting obviously doesn;t allow error | 00:08 |
scrottie | umm... heh... I don't think they are. but if you're familiar with Apache and mysql, they're somewhat obvious, if you know what you're trying to do | 00:08 |
Mr_Palmtree | ghehe, well, that's where the difficulty is... I am not | 00:09 |
scrottie | okay. I suggest asking on IRC here if you need to do something and don't know how to do it. | 00:10 |
Mr_Palmtree | not a big problem, because I will figure it out eventually, but documentation would have been pleasant... tho, IRC live support is a great way of learning to do something | 00:10 |
Mr_Palmtree | I like it when something involves more than just copy-paste | 00:11 |
scrottie | you're more than welcome to compile answers into a Wiki page on webgui.org. | 00:11 |
scrottie | documentation for this would be good. | 00:11 |
Mr_Palmtree | bytheway, google kind of suffocates on the amount of information originating from the irc chat | 00:12 |
scrottie | aside from perl modules (which Task::WebGUI should get you *almost* all of) and system packages for mod_perl and mysql, the only other thing you should need is the .tar.gz for WebGUI from sourceforge (or a git checkout of the 'webgui-7.10' branch from github) | 00:12 |
scrottie | for sure. IRC is badly unstructured. | 00:12 |
Mr_Palmtree | if you put a search term in, that involves any kind of widely knows problem, you get 1M+ results, all from the irc chat | 00:12 |
scrottie | ugh. | 00:13 |
Mr_Palmtree | is the git fork for plebGUI stable? or is it in the kind of pre-alpha state that a lot of developers have for their products, and on compilation, there is a big chance of more bugs than there were fixed with the release? | 00:15 |
scrottie | everything is in github, including plebgui, the alpha wG8, all of the old versions back to the beginning of time, and the latest stable version of 7. | 00:16 |
scrottie | the webgui-7.10 branch is the latest stable version of 7, though. | 00:16 |
scrottie | if you're trying to actually use the thing, I recommend a version of 7. | 00:17 |
Mr_Palmtree | haha | 00:17 |
scrottie | thought I did slaughter a whole bunch of wG8 admin UI bugs a few weeks ago. | 00:18 |
Mr_Palmtree | and do you recommend the plebgui or the webgui for a basic server that is going to host just some simple pages, which might of might not receive a shitloas of traffic :) | 00:18 |
Mr_Palmtree | (and killing bugs is nice!) | 00:19 |
scrottie | given that you're already running apache, you might as well install mod_perl and run the official wG7. | 00:19 |
scrottie | if you weren't running anything on port 80, I'd recommend plebgui as it avoids Apache and mod_perl configuration. | 00:19 |
Mr_Palmtree | ok | 00:20 |
scrottie | and if you do start getting tons of traffic, we can deal with that when it hapeens. | 00:20 |
Mr_Palmtree | if so, i would probably need an upgrade of my vps... but thats for later | 00:21 |
Mr_Palmtree | currently running a vps: 1 GB ram, 40 GB disk, dual core xeon, 4 TB bandwidth for 5EUR per month | 00:22 |
Mr_Palmtree | so in the worst case scenario, upgrading would not hurt me | 00:22 |
scrottie | that's one way to go. putting nginx in front of apache to handle the static content would be my first suggestion. otherwise, you have a ton of memory used to serve static content because each httpd process contains mod_perl and all of the cached data wG uses. | 00:22 |
scrottie | nice. | 00:23 |
Mr_Palmtree | i can choose which website uses which apache module | 00:23 |
Mr_Palmtree | that is a big advantage in virtualmin | 00:23 |
Mr_Palmtree | I would like to hear your thoughts on that when applicable, if you don't mind | 00:24 |
scrottie | hrm. that may or may not actually save the memory. not sure. | 00:24 |
scrottie | don't know anything about it, but it seems like it would be a lot easier to implement that by revoking access to the module rather than keeping different pools of httpd processes that have different stuff loaded. | 00:24 |
Mr_Palmtree | oh, I am probably wrong in that... it does not allow me to turn mod_perl off for specific websites | 00:27 |
Mr_Palmtree | so, please, if i may come back on that later, that would be appreciated | 00:28 |
Mr_Palmtree | for now, I will first and foremostly try to get it all running on my test environment, and when that is operational, on my live server...but first, i am going to pick up my books and study for my exam tomorrow | 00:28 |
scrottie | okay, best of luck, on both accounts! | 00:29 |
scrottie | keep that "source install" link handy. that's your basic install road map at this point. | 00:30 |
Mr_Palmtree | i bookmarked it, thanks | 00:33 |
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qwebirc28824 | Hello. Please help me with backups. I ran a test of backup.pl (perl /data/wre/sbin/backup.pl) after installation and it worked. But after one day has gone by I don't see any additional backups in /backup. | 18:10 |
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ckotil | did you setup the cronjob to run it? | 20:04 |
ckotil | i dont think it's done for you automatically. could be wrong tho.but i dont see any webgui workflow that performs a backup | 20:04 |
qwebirc28824 | Where is this, 'Add the following cron jobs to your server's cron tab' taken from 'wre installation @ http://www.webgui.org/wiki/wre-installation' | 20:19 |
ckotil | those are the crontab entries you need to add | 20:23 |
qwebirc28824 | Where should they be placed? /root | 20:37 |
ckotil | read up on crontab | 20:37 |
ckotil | as root , type `crontab -e` to edit the root crontab. OR you may be able to place them /etc/cron.d/ | 20:38 |
ckotil | the syntax is real important with crontab. and file permissions too with /etc/cron.d/ | 20:39 |
qwebirc28824 | Thank you. | 21:40 |
ckotil | yw | 21:57 |
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scrottie | haaaaarg. | 09:11 |
haarg | o/ | 09:12 |
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ckotil | using the ^D d_date macro, can it display the day as '19th' ? you know add the suffix to the number? | 19:32 |
ckotil | i found Date::Format does it like so %o ornate day of month -- "1st", "2nd", "25th", etc. | 19:33 |
ckotil | hrm. ornate must be newer than what the wre has in 0.9.1 | 19:37 |
ckotil | aw Date::Format , not DateTime. shux | 19:39 |
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sbaur | mysql's date_format let's you do it with a %D | 19:42 |
sbaur | http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/date-and-time-functions.html | 19:42 |
sbaur | maybe that will help in your context? | 19:42 |
ckotil | not sure how i could work that in. im just calling ^D | 19:42 |
ckotil | maybe i could do a mysql call instead via a macro | 19:43 |
ckotil | i just need to print the current date in a nice and friendly format | 19:43 |
ckotil | however just a number will do for now ;) | 19:44 |
ckotil | this is what happens when someone needs something NOW | 19:45 |
sbaur | yup, I am familiar with the phenomenon | 19:45 |
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gry | Hi. Does webGUI support multilingual content? How? | 23:02 |
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--- Log closed Sun Dec 01 00:00:42 2013 |
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