--- Log opened Mon Mar 01 00:00:51 2010
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16:31 < SDuensin_> Greetings.
16:33 <+bartjol> morning
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16:38 < SDuensin_> AH HA!  Got rid of him!
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17:27 < Diggy> hi, folks.  hope at least 1 webgui dev is here
17:27 < SDuensin> Probably more like a dozen.
17:27 < Diggy> Q - are there any plans to produce an up-to-date webgui VM?
17:28 < Diggy> a dozen!  yikes
17:29 < Diggy> perhaps a VM for the 7.8 series?
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17:29 < SDuensin> Hey perlDreamer!
17:29 <+perlDreamer> bartjol, you are excused from all current, future and past comments about LOI
17:29 < SDuensin> Diggy has a good question...
17:30 <+perlDreamer> Diggy, what's your question this morning?
17:30 < SDuensin> Any chance of the VM being updated for 7.8?
17:30 < Diggy> about plans for an updated webgui VM
17:30 < Diggy> last vm was done in early '09, IIRC
17:30 < bartjol> perlDreamer: so no more info needed, too bad... 
17:30 <+perlDreamer> the VM can be updated manually by downloading the current one and running the webgui updater
17:31 <+perlDreamer> bartjol, what's the red thing?
17:31 < bartjol> an expension barrel for the heating
17:31 < Diggy> unfortunately, my attempts at updating it have failed
17:31 < SDuensin> Diggy - Oh?  How so?
17:31 <+perlDreamer> how are you updating it, Diggy?
17:31 <+perlDreamer> and what errors do you get?
17:31 < Diggy> with the wre.  it's been a while since i last tried
17:32 <+perlDreamer> you can only update via the WRE if you stay up to date with it
17:32 < Diggy> again, apologies, as it's been a while since i tried to upgrade
17:32 <+perlDreamer> otherwise, you have to manually download and upgrade
17:33 <+perlDreamer> it wouldn't hurt us to update that, though
17:33 < SDuensin> You should be able to run the webguiupdate script and then the testEnvironment script.
17:33 <+perlDreamer> SD, not really
17:33 < SDuensin> No?
17:33 <+perlDreamer> webguiupdate is not smart enough to stop at the right points
17:33 <+perlDreamer> it downloads the latest and greatest and tries that
17:33 <+perlDreamer> which will fail miserably
17:33 < Diggy> i did use the script.  IRC channel users helped me, but in the end, failure :-(
17:33  * SDuensin sighs
17:33 <+perlDreamer> so, if you start at 7.6.32
17:33 <+perlDreamer> you update to 7.6.35
17:34 <+perlDreamer> then 7.7.33
17:34 <+perlDreamer> then 7.8.13
17:34 < SDuensin> Glad I had this little talk prior to going to 7.8.x.  :-)
17:34 < bartjol> ah, scott, you need some other talks?
17:34 <+perlDreamer> I wonder if the wiki has that little gem of info
17:34 <+perlDreamer> there is an open bug to fix that
17:35 < SDuensin> bartjol, I need all the help I can get.  :-D
17:35 < Diggy> are you recommending that i try that sequence?
17:35 <+perlDreamer> Diggy, sure
17:35 <+perlDreamer> also, Diggy, would you please file a bug about updating the VM?
17:36 < Diggy> ok.  will try (as soon as time permits :-) ), and report back
17:36 <+perlDreamer> that will raise it to the attention of the proper people
17:36 < Diggy> sure, i'll file a bug report
17:36 < Diggy> thanks, and ttfn
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17:37 < SDuensin> There's too many interesting cool package formats out there.  I want WebGUI in all of them for people!
17:37 < SDuensin> VMware appliance, OpenVZ template, that application standard thing - not to mention the usual DEB, RPM, etc.
17:42 <+perlDreamer> bartjol, in the -930 picture, what are all those pipes for?
17:42 <+perlDreamer> doesn't a sink have hot, cold, and drain, and that's it?
17:43 < bartjol> eeeh, i'll have a look
17:44 < bartjol> and then make fun of you
17:44  * perlDreamer braces for public humiliation
17:44 < bartjol> well, that's my heating thingy
17:45 <+perlDreamer> so that's not the bottom of the sink
17:45 <+perlDreamer> makes much more sense
17:45 < bartjol> so it has to have piping for gas, cold water (in), warm water (out) heating in and out
17:45 < bartjol> yeah
17:45  * perlDreamer will take the children to school, and ponder more
17:45 < bartjol> 955 is the sink
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17:57 <+perlDreamer> bartjol: I knew that 955 was the sink, but 930 looks like it's from the same place, in the corner
18:00 < bartjol> it is more just above 952
18:01 < bartjol> or better maybe: http://www.bartjol.nl/home/fotoalbums/fortos/klus20091116/dsc00678
18:06 <+perlDreamer> ah, yes
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18:12 <+perlDreamer> we have one of those tankless water heaters, too
18:12 <+perlDreamer> very efficient
18:15 < SDuensin> Database design hurts my head.
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18:31 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r587f080 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Subscribable aspect should propagate result of purge, instead of always returning false. Fixes bug #11446 - http://bit.ly/97WdkX
18:31 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb462ce0 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Subscribable aspect should propagate result of purge, instead of always returning false. Fixes bug #11446 - http://bit.ly/bSzWKC
18:42 <+perlDreamer> preaction: ping
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18:45 <+perlDreamer> patspam, you up for a dev level idea bouncing talk?
18:45 <+patspam> shoot
18:46 <+perlDreamer> it's the spectre bug
18:46 <+perlDreamer> with the mail workflow
18:46 <+patspam> got the number on hand?
18:46 <+perlDreamer> two of them
18:46 <+perlDreamer> this is the "latest" one: http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11444
18:47 <+perlDreamer> and here's the historical one: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/10189
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18:49 <+patspam> yep, I've experienced that too
18:49 <+perlDreamer> okay, so this is my theory
18:49 <+perlDreamer> Spectre recognizes that it's time to run the cron job
18:49 <+perlDreamer> and calls www_runCronJob in Operation/Cron
18:50 <+perlDreamer> www_runCronJob builds an instance of the workflow
18:50 <+perlDreamer> and tries to talk to spectre
18:50 <+perlDreamer> but it can't
18:50 <+perlDreamer> the instance is NEVER cleaned up
18:50 <+perlDreamer> so it sits in the db, blocking all further invocations, since it's a singleton workflow
18:51 <+perlDreamer> the core problem seems to be that the return value of $instance->start(1) is not checked
18:52 <+patspam> I've never really trawled through the spectre code, but that sounds reasonable
18:53 <+perlDreamer> I'll see if I can outfit a few sites with some test code, and then disable their spectre restart cron cobs
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19:00 <+perlDreamer> if this is right, there's about 1 day of spectre relating hacking that needs to be done
19:00 <+perlDreamer> since none of the spectre comm code returns a status
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19:03 <+patspam> sorry, doing some bug triaging here too
19:04 <+patspam> the kind where people report something, and then when you look everything appears perfectly fine
19:04 < bartjol> but I thought Martin made spectre, how can there be errors?
19:05 <+perlDreamer> I thought JT wrote spectre, and that Martin just named it
19:05 < bartjol> mmm, that might be, explains a lot :)
19:05 <+perlDreamer> ;)
19:06 <+perlDreamer> patspam, I hate those kinds of bugs
19:06 <+perlDreamer> we had one of those today
19:06 <+perlDreamer> with deleting a wiki
19:06 <+perlDreamer> if you delete a wiki and purge it, it works fine
19:06 <+perlDreamer> but try deleting a page containing a wiki, and it's not
19:06 < bartjol> but it's laundry time, I am even looking forward to it
19:06 <+patspam> fun
19:07 <+perlDreamer> martien, kimd, faxioman have definitely joined elnino in the bug reporting elite
19:07 <+perlDreamer> they are thoughtful, detailed, and patient
19:07 <+patspam> yeah that's awesome
19:07 <+patspam> I wish my clients were like that
19:08 < bartjol> actually testing, instead of getting back a year later with a mention that "it is all broken"
19:08 < bartjol> that'd be nice
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19:26 <@Haarg> perlDreamer, the getCache asset method can't be merged into webgui 8 directly.  i was thinking of replacing it with a getViewCacheKey method.
19:27 <+perlDreamer> why can't it be merged?
19:28 <+perlDreamer> also, I thought getCache was a session method
19:58 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rc0d45e0 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Remove workarounds in WeatherData. Fixes bug #11401. - http://bit.ly/drRnhH
20:00 <@Haarg> it can't be merged because it returns a cache object with a specific key.  but you don't construct a cache object per key anymore.
20:01 <+perlDreamer> patspam: the TAP modules required by the Survey cannot be installed piecemeal, correct?  You have to fully upgrade to Test::Harness 3.x
20:02 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, it sounds like it can be removed, and replace by session->getCache
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21:40 <+perlDreamer> well, at least the guts of Asset->getCache could be removed.
21:42 <@Haarg> getting rid of the duplicate code is a good idea, it's just that the cache api is going to be very different.  which is why i was thinking getViewCacheKey.
21:42 <@Haarg> although it would be better if the cache api was finalized
21:43 <@Haarg> we could have $asset->computeViewCache(sub { }, $timeout)
21:43 <@Haarg> or something along those lines
21:44 <+perlDreamer> anyway we can abstract that out, and keep it insultated from this change, and future changes, will help
21:45 <@Haarg> does computeViewCache sound like a good idea?  or would there be a better name for it?
21:46 <@Haarg> or does getViewCacheKey sound like a better approach?
21:46 <+perlDreamer> if it's returning a key, it should have that in the name
21:46 <+perlDreamer> so I vote for getViewCacheKey
21:46 <@Haarg> well, computeViewCache would be returning the cache data
21:47 <@Haarg> or calling the sub if there was no cache data
21:47 <@Haarg> and storing the return from the sub in the cache
21:48 <+perlDreamer> yes, but in some view methods getCache is used to grab a cache object to stuff data into it
21:48 <+perlDreamer> not just access what might (or might not) be there
21:48 <@Haarg> i'm not sure i follow.  that is exactly the case i am talking about.
21:49 <@Haarg> with computeViewCache, it would first try to get the cache data and return it if it was available
21:49 <@Haarg> if it wasn't, it would call the sub that was passed in to generate the needed output, then store that in the cache and return it
21:49 <+perlDreamer> ah, I missed the last part
21:50 <+perlDreamer> and the method used to generate the needed output would not be $self->view, but $self->view minus the permission checks, cache code, etc.
21:51 <@Haarg> yeah, basically
21:55 <+perlDreamer> seems odd to push down one level like that.  Almost like we could replace prepareView with that, or something
22:02 <+perlDreamer> Haarg: how do I make a clone of the metaclass-roles branch to try and tinker with it?
22:02 <@Haarg> do you have my repo as a remote?
22:02 <+perlDreamer> yes
22:03 <+perlDreamer> but this: git checkout -b metaclass-roles --track haarg/metaclass-roles
22:03 <+perlDreamer> does this: fatal: git checkout: updating paths is incompatible with switching branches
22:03 <@Haarg> what about just git checkout -t haarg/metaclass-roles
22:03 <@Haarg> ?
22:04 <+perlDreamer> same thing
22:04 <@Haarg> git --version
22:04 <+perlDreamer> 1.6.3.3
22:05 <@Haarg> git remote update
22:06 <+perlDreamer> updated, but the checkout still doesn't work
22:06 <+perlDreamer> maybe I misconfigured the remote?
22:06 <@Haarg> git branch -r | grep haarg
22:06 <+perlDreamer> haarg/bart-i18n
22:07 <@Haarg> git remote haarg | nopaste
22:08 <+perlDreamer> http://gist.github.com/318755
22:09 <@Haarg> git fetch haarg
22:09 <+perlDreamer> k
22:09 <@Haarg> i'm really not sure why it isn't updating
22:10 <+perlDreamer> I'll go running and see if maybe it's some github transient issue
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23:55 <+perlDreamer> haarg, I figured it out
23:56 <@Haarg> oh?
23:56 <+perlDreamer> when I created the remote, I used the -t switch
23:56 <+perlDreamer> it would only use the bart-i18n branch
23:56 <+perlDreamer> so I dropped that remote and added a new one
23:56 <@Haarg> ah
23:57 <@Haarg> making an attempt at merging master into WebGUI8
23:58 <+perlDreamer> good luck
--- Day changed Tue Mar 02 2010
00:25 <+perlDreamer> mlri's server, server36
00:25 <+perlDreamer> every config file has that in it
00:37 <@preaction> perlDreamer: the ^StorageUrl(); macro can be given a storageId and will return a URL (for use in SQLReports and the like)
00:37 <+perlDreamer> really?!
00:37 <@preaction> yep
00:38 <@preaction> it's even got some nice config options for various things
00:38 <+perlDreamer> must be time for me to review all the macros again
00:40 <+perlDreamer> what if there are multiple files in the storage location, though?
00:41 <@preaction> it grabs the first one fsvo first
00:42 <@preaction> perlbot fsvo
00:42 <@preaction> perlbot fsvo is For Some Value Of
00:42 <@preaction> perlbot botsnack
00:42 <@preaction> perlbot fsvo
00:42 <@preaction> ... wtf
00:42 <@preaction> perlbot, fsvo
00:42 < perlbot> preaction: For Some Value Of   
00:43 <@preaction> ah
00:44 <+perlDreamer> the first one "asciibetically", according to the POD ;)
01:02 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * reea83d5 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix macro issues, missing FilePump, HASH entry. Fixes bug #11449. - http://bit.ly/9TSsZJ
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01:04 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r9256928 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix macro issues, missing FilePump, HASH entry. Fixes bug #11449. - http://bit.ly/dmMdVC
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01:17  * perlDreamer has to go pick up the kids from school, back in 30
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02:07 <+perlDreamer> Haarg: http://gist.github.com/318965
02:09 <+perlDreamer> it's almost like we have different versions of Moose installed
02:09 <+perlDreamer> those subs don't exist, and the options have different names
02:21 <+perlDreamer> this one's cleaner, and has more option corrections http://gist.github.com/318976
02:36 <+perlDreamer> I love the Moose stack trace, but it would be so much nicer if the reference were pretty printed
02:44 <+perlDreamer> Haarg: this patch gets all the way down into the Shortcut asset, then dies due to a missing fieldType in a property http://gist.github.com/318994
02:44 <+perlDreamer> the fieldType is defined in the property, and it's the first one called so it seems like someplace the fieldType is getting lost
03:11 <+perlDreamer> I think the problem is Definition::Meta::Class, _build_property_metaclass
03:11 <+perlDreamer> it's not setting the property metaclass correctly
03:11 <+perlDreamer> this causes everything to be stuck inside form
03:11 <+perlDreamer> and not get to the property, which then complains about not getting a fieldType
03:28 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, I got it!
03:28 <+perlDreamer> I'll paste a patch after dinner
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04:02 <+perlDreamer> Haarg: http://gist.github.com/319042
04:02 <+perlDreamer> the last piece was, inside add_property, it was calling $prop_meta->meta
04:02 <@Haarg> where are you seeing the for vs for_class change needed?
04:02 <+perlDreamer> in the calls to the Utility methods
04:03 <+perlDreamer> it's in the patch
04:03 <@Haarg> looks like it should just be for given the Moose::Util::MetaRole docs
04:04 <@Haarg> what version of Moose do you have installed?
04:04 <+perlDreamer> 0.93
04:04 <@Haarg> i have 0.98
04:05 <+perlDreamer> let's change testEnvironment.pl, and I'll upgrade to your version
04:06 <+perlDreamer> with that change, the only change needed should be removing the inherited is from Meta::Property::Asset
04:06 <+perlDreamer> and the $prop_meta->meta thing
04:08 <+perlDreamer> I wonder if that's going to happen everywhere the sub names were different
04:08 <+perlDreamer> and option names
04:08 <@Haarg> option names?
04:09 <+perlDreamer> metaclass_roles vs class_metaroles
04:09 <@Haarg> http://search.cpan.org/~drolsky/Moose-0.98/lib/Moose/Util/MetaRole.pm
04:10 <+perlDreamer> we're going to have to watch Moose very carefully
04:18 <+perlDreamer> okay, now I'm getting exactly what you said earlier
04:18 <+perlDreamer> the property meta isn't being set correctly for Assets
04:18 <@Haarg> what happens with your full patch applied but the new moose version?
04:20 <+perlDreamer> don't know
04:20 <+perlDreamer> massive chaos, since the sub names and options are all from the earlier version
04:20 <+perlDreamer> that's what I would guess
04:21 <@Haarg> the earlier stuff all still works
04:21 <@Haarg> i'm trying to finish up this section of the merge i'm working on so i can test stuff out.
04:42 <@Haarg> perlDreamer, i applied your patch and it fails with the tableName problem
05:02 <+perlDreamer> that's running t/Definition/Asset.t
05:03 <@Haarg> yes
05:06 <+perlDreamer> Definition's init_meta gets called after Definition:Asset's init_meta
05:07 <+perlDreamer> unless that's a testing artifact
05:08 <@Haarg> Definition::Asset->init_meta calls Definition->init_meta
05:10 <+perlDreamer> yes, but it's getting called a 2nd time somehow
05:13 <+perlDreamer> and when it gets called the 2nd time, it's overwriting the applied classes, removing the ones set up by WebGUI::Definition::Asset
05:29 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI::Definition is a role
05:30 <+perlDreamer> and it's used by Definition::Asset;
05:30 <+perlDreamer> I think it's applying the init_meta to every class that uses Definition::Asset
05:30 <+perlDreamer> so that it gets called
05:30 <+perlDreamer> so it calls Definition::Asset, which calls Definition and then does it's specific configuration
05:31 <+perlDreamer> then it calls Definition's init_meta again, and that overwrites the base role and metaroles
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05:52 < elnino> hi! 
05:53 < elnino> when you put in multiple anchors in an article, is there a GUI way to link to it from another article?
05:55 < elnino> does that make sense?
05:55 <+perlDreamer> it does, but there's no GUI way to link to any of them
05:55 <+perlDreamer> not that I know of
05:56 < elnino> ok. I didn't think so, but thought I'd ask anyway
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08:08 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, the second call to WebGUI::Definition->init_meta is being provided by Moose::Exporter
08:08 <+perlDreamer> it's like it's calling init_meta up the stack
08:08 <+perlDreamer> using linearized_isa
08:09 <@Haarg> well, it can't be that because there is no inheritance
08:09 <@Haarg> it's probably the 'with'
08:10 <@Haarg> sorry, 'also'
08:13 <+perlDreamer> removing also removes the sugar
08:13 <+perlDreamer> what I don't get is that we have an init_meta inside WG::D::A
08:13 <+perlDreamer> so why do we get 2?
08:33 <+perlDreamer> it's there because it's a role
08:33 <@Haarg> because what is a role?
08:34 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI::Definition
08:34 <@Haarg> not realy
08:34 <+perlDreamer> with no inheritance, how else could there be two of them?
08:34 <@Haarg> two of what?
08:35 <+perlDreamer> init_meta methods
08:36 <@Haarg> WebGUI::Definition's gets called because of the 'also'
08:36 <@Haarg> and because we explicitly call it
08:41 <+perlDreamer> I'm shot
08:41 <+perlDreamer> I'm going to call it a night.
08:41 <@Haarg> i've been confusing myself some
08:42 <@Haarg> paying attention to how the role is applied to the metaclass
08:42 <@Haarg> forgetting that it's the propery metaclass that is the problem
08:43 <+perlDreamer> that's okay, I'm still confused with how you get 2 init_meta methods in 1 package's namespace, without using inheritance
08:43 <@Haarg> in one package namespace?
08:43 <@Haarg> they don't get exported to the class they are used in
08:43 <@Haarg> they are called by import
08:44 <@Haarg> ok
08:45 <+perlDreamer> so it does keep track of the classes, and calls init_meta in each one
08:45 <@Haarg> i changed some other things and was getting the same failures
08:45 <@Haarg> remove the + from has 'property_metaroles' and everything works
08:45 <@Haarg> (almost)
08:45 <@Haarg> not really deep tracking
08:46 <@Haarg> WebGUI::Definition::Asset has also => 'WebGUI::Definition'
08:46 <@Haarg> so when WebGUI::Definition::import gets called
08:46 <@Haarg> it calls the generated $import method
08:46 <+perlDreamer> what other changes do you have, that aren't committed
08:46 <+perlDreamer> if I remove the +, I get missing fieldType warnings
08:47 <@Haarg> which calls init_meta in WebGUI::Definition::Asset because it is defined there, and init_meta in WebGUI::Definition because of the also
08:47 <@Haarg> i'm going to try to minimize the changes
08:50 <@Haarg> pushed my changes
08:52 <+perlDreamer> only 1 failing test
08:52 <+perlDreamer> way better than before
08:53 <@Haarg> yeah
08:53 <@Haarg> that one is likely something i broke when making changes
08:54 <@Haarg> some places where it was doing ->isa and i had to do the checks different because ->does and ->does_role weren't working right
08:54 <@Haarg> they only work on Moose classes and it seems like some of the metaclasses end up getting created as Class::MOP classes
08:54 <@Haarg> and don't have the extra tracking for roles
08:56 <+perlDreamer> is that due to the anonymous classes that are created?
08:56 <@Haarg> something like that
08:57 <@Haarg> if you have a Moose class and apply a role to it that stuff is tracked, but it seems like some of the metaclasses don't.
08:57 <+perlDreamer> you think it's a bug?
08:57 <@Haarg> i'm not really familiar with cmp_deeply, but it will need to do a different type of check than an isa
08:57 <@Haarg> i have no idea
08:59 <@Haarg> also, i don't really love the _property_metaclass thing i have in there, but it worked so i left it
09:04 <+perlDreamer> we'll have to build something for cmp_deeply, it only provides an isa method by default
09:04 <+perlDreamer> but we should be able to construct something that does ->can fairly easily
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16:38 < SDuensin> Morning.
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16:51 <+bartjol> hi
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17:03 <+perlDreamer> bartjol: definitely
17:05 <+bartjol> ah, bien
17:06 <+bartjol> because I suppose, my part fixes the part of getting the correct language and the replacement of the files the other stuff
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17:09 <+bartjol> perlDreamer: my fix works, but might it not be better to create the i18n object, which should be able to provide the abbreviation?
17:10 <+perlDreamer> yes, that would probably be better
17:10 <+perlDreamer> do you want to alter your patch to do that?
17:12 <+bartjol> yes
17:13 <+bartjol> I was going to that, but Koen interrupted me by telephone :)
17:16 <+perlDreamer> that's what you get for giving him your phone number
17:18 <+bartjol> well, it was the number of procolix
17:23 <+bartjol> well, it can be very short:
17:24 <+bartjol>     my $sessionLanguage = $i18n->{_language};
17:24 <+bartjol>     my $language  = $i18n->getLanguage($sessionLanguage,"languageAbbreviation");
17:24 <+bartjol> the i18n object is already created before :)
17:24 <+bartjol> useless to copy that code from sub new in international.pm
17:25 <+perlDreamer> there's a way to get ->{_language} through the object, too, yes?
17:25 <+bartjol> well, the line I posted
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17:26 <+bartjol> you can skip the first line and replace $sessionLanguage in the second line by $i18n->{_language}
17:26 <+bartjol> that's the shortest
17:26 <+bartjol> and
17:27 <+bartjol> the lines with the unless ($language} are obsolete I believe
17:27 <+bartjol> new defaults to english I believe
17:27 <+perlDreamer> I mean, there must be a way through the API to get $i18n->{_language} without peeking inside the object
17:27 <+bartjol> oh, you mean like a real get method
17:28 <+bartjol> not sure, I was trying to find that
17:29 <+perlDreamer> there isn't
17:29 <+perlDreamer> I see
17:29 <+bartjol> ah, and I was wrong about new
17:29 <+perlDreamer> we don't need to pass the language in
17:30 <+bartjol> we need the abbreviation
17:30 <+perlDreamer> $language = $i18n->get('', 'languageAbbreviation');
17:30 <+bartjol> oh
17:30 <+bartjol> sure
17:30 <+bartjol> indeed
17:30 <+perlDreamer> which means the language should be the 2nd argument
17:31 <+bartjol> mmm, maybe there are other circumstances where the 1st is better
17:31 <+perlDreamer> there shouldn't be, the property name is required, and the language is optional
17:31 <+perlDreamer> hash based would work okay, too
17:31 <+bartjol> well
17:32 <+bartjol> I can't really overview the complications
17:33 <+bartjol>     my $language  = $i18n->getLanguage($i18n->{_language},"languageAbbreviation"); looks nice and readable to me though
17:36 <+bartjol> and it works
17:36 <+perlDreamer> I think the unless code is there to handle broken language packs, without making the rich editor crash
17:36 <+bartjol> and spanish isn't my best alnguage
17:37 <+perlDreamer> no, it doesn't have any TinyMCE translations
17:37 <+bartjol> the default stuff is there
17:38 <+bartjol> but not webgui plugin stuff
17:39 <+bartjol> but, are we gonna renew all getLanguage calls?
17:39 <+perlDreamer> renew?
17:40 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rbeb1337 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/RichEdit.pm): Make the RichEditor obey the new session overrides for language settings. Fixes bug #11443. - http://bit.ly/d2uvmd
17:40 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r85dd7cc / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/RichEdit.pm): Make the RichEditor obey the new session overrides for language settings. Fixes bug #11443. - http://bit.ly/8YBGSn
17:40 <+bartjol> if you wanna swap language and the translation ID
17:41 <+perlDreamer> oh, no.  That would have to happen in WebGUI 8
17:41 <+perlDreamer> and for all I know Haarg has plans to completely change that
17:42 <+bartjol> yeah, well, I grepped throuh the code, it's only about 10 entries
17:42 <+bartjol> but still
17:42 <+bartjol> ok
17:42 <+perlDreamer> yes, we could fix the core, but completely break all the custom code out there
17:43 <+perlDreamer> which, might help with budgets in the future, but would not make customers happy
17:43 <+bartjol> customers? since when are those important?
17:45 <+bartjol> well that seems fixed in my site
17:45 <+perlDreamer> I went with '' instead of $i18n->{_language}
17:45 <+bartjol> and less code in total
17:45 <+bartjol> I saw it in git
17:45 <+perlDreamer> time to take the kiddos to school
17:45 <+bartjol> have fun
18:02 <+perlDreamer> okay, kids are taken care of
18:02 <+perlDreamer> bartjol is happy
18:02 <+perlDreamer> time to work with rogier
18:03 <+bartjol> but, any specific reason to let out the $i18n->{_language} ? because it is shorter or quicker?
18:03 <+bartjol> just interested
18:03 <+bartjol> it is not better readable
18:03 <+bartjol> sorry for reopening :)
18:04 <+perlDreamer> it breaks object encapsulation, and isn't needed
18:04 <+perlDreamer> it's better to use the bad API design than to peek inside the object like that
18:04 <+bartjol> I believe you
18:04 <+bartjol> not sure why yet
18:05 <+bartjol> it is only looking
18:06 <+bartjol> it's a matter of not being best practises I suppose
18:07 <+perlDreamer> yes
18:07 <+perlDreamer> peeking inside objects (when not needed) is bad
18:07 <+perlDreamer> because if the object changes, your peeking may break
18:08 <+perlDreamer> and then you have to hunt all through the code base to find the breakage
18:08 <+perlDreamer> because we don't have enough tests to cover all the code
18:08 <+bartjol> doesn't rogier's bug solution also indicated that or used tempalted can't be deleted, or automatical setting change at removal
18:08 <+bartjol> ah, ok
18:08 <+perlDreamer> there should be a fallback for "critical" operations
18:09 <+perlDreamer> so that users don't break their sites badly
18:09 <+perlDreamer> so we fix the login templates, but create account and the others will just stay broken
18:09 <+perlDreamer> since you could login and fix those
18:10 <+bartjol> yeah
18:10 <+bartjol> just a way of preventing people like rogier to lock themselves out
18:10 <+bartjol> :)
18:10 <+bartjol> I suppose I'm one of them cruel sysadmins
18:12 <+bartjol> time to go
18:12 <+bartjol> thanks for the explanation perlDreamer
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18:51 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rc31110d / (4 files in 3 dirs): Try to fallback to a default login template if the configured one won't work. Fixes bug #11450. - http://bit.ly/9Ucgvs
18:52 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r119d513 / (4 files in 3 dirs): Try to fallback to a default login template if the configured one won't work. Fixes bug #11450. - http://bit.ly/9zFOpo
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19:05 < dionak> Hi all
19:05 <+perlDreamer> hey, dionak!
19:05 < dionak> how are things in WG land?
19:06 <+perlDreamer> not too bad
19:06 <+perlDreamer> we just released 7.8-stable
19:06 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI 8 work continues on
19:06 < dionak> yes, i noticed that. congrads!
19:07 < dionak> speaking of upgrades & releases. Quick upgrade question. I'm upgrade a site from 7.5.40 to 7.7.20. I'm following what I think is the prescribed upgrade path. 7.5.40->7.6.35->7.7.20. Did I miss any step?
19:07 < dionak> i'm getting the following error: Adding comments asset aspect...DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Table 'assetAspectComments' already exists
19:07 <+perlDreamer> how many times did you go through the upgrade?
19:08 < dionak> a couple now. i've restored the database and the lib & doc files when starting over
19:08 <+perlDreamer> at which step in the upgrade does that happen?
19:08 < dionak> copied a fresh version from production (7.5.40)
19:08 < dionak> hrspotlight_com 7.5.40-7.6.10
19:08 < dionak> the script makes several db alters before failing on this one
19:09 <+perlDreamer> in the 7.5.40, does the assetAspectsComments table exist in the 7.5.40 database?
19:10 <+perlDreamer> the other thing that can happen is that when restoring the database, it has to be dropped.
19:10 <+perlDreamer> because importing the backup will not delete the newly created tables
19:10 < dionak> ah, that's the issue.
19:10 < dionak> thanks. i'll make a note
19:11 <+perlDreamer> we should stick that in the wiki somewhere
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19:17 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, spent most of the morning doing core bug fixing
19:17 <+perlDreamer> I'll have a go at the wg8 tests when I come back from the gym
19:18 <@Haarg> cool
19:18 <@Haarg> the good part of that test failure in the roles stuff is that it is only a rest failure and the code itself is working afaik
19:20 < dionak> i stuck that note in a wiki entry. thanks for the pointer perlDreamer
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19:50 < dionak> another question. while running the upgrade from 7.6.35-7.7.17 I get: Reverting use packed... Invalid asset id 'pGyXTw9lAizHICubVyYqEQ' requested! at upgrade_7.6.35-7.7.17.pl line 1448
19:50 < dionak> Is there a utility tool anywhere to check the validity of assetIds?
20:05 < dionak> or method?
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20:40 <+perlDreamer> dionak, we need a tool like that
20:41 <+perlDreamer> it should be a Cron job that runs weekly and alerts admins to broken assets in their sites
20:41 <+perlDreamer> that way, they can fix them _before_ doing upgrades
20:49 < dionak> yea, that would be handy. i'll keep that in mind
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20:59 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, it would be nice if the classes were sane, but I agree that it's better that they're functional then pretty :)
21:02 <+perlDreamer> Haarg: here's the test patch-> http://gist.github.com/319799
21:03 <+perlDreamer> after this, can we merge and start role hackery?
21:05 < ckotil> where are you using roles?
21:06 <@preaction> the old AssetAspects are becoming Moose::Roles
21:06 < ckotil> ah. ive never heard of either :)
21:07 <+perlDreamer> AssetAspects provide things like RssFeeds
21:07 <+perlDreamer> Installability
21:07 <+perlDreamer> Subscribability
21:07 <+perlDreamer> etc.
21:07 <+perlDreamer> in WebGUI8, they do all that, and more
21:07 <@preaction> reusable bits of asset functionality
21:08 < ckotil> ah cool
21:25 <+perlDreamer> preaction: what's involved in update the VM for WebGUI?
21:26 <@preaction> i don't know, never made one
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22:49 <@preaction> perlDreamer: my real solution to that login template problem is to put the default webGUI templates on the filesystem, so that they simply cannot be edited OR deleted
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22:55 <+perlDreamer> we could just lock them down in the database so they can't be deleted through the UI
22:55 <@preaction> yeah, but still annoying to edit default templates and no way to patch / track
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23:52 <+perlDreamer> preaction, in 7.9 I'm planning on adding testHarness 3.17 to testEnvironment.pl.  Any issues, concerns, worries, directives or comments?
23:52 <@preaction> as an optional install correct?
23:53 <+perlDreamer> parts of the Survey won't work without it
23:53 <@preaction> okay, go ahead
23:53 <@preaction> if it's necessary for normal operation it's required, if it's only necessary for testing, it's optional
23:53 <@preaction> that should be true for all our requirements
23:54 <+perlDreamer> well, in that case
23:54 <+perlDreamer> it's used for testing the Survey, from inside the Survey
23:54 <@preaction> right, but it's an end-user utility
23:54 <+perlDreamer> instead of t/test.t
23:54 <+perlDreamer> got it
23:56 <@preaction> we've got five types of users: Devs, Admins, Designers, Content Managers, and Visitors. only Devs are concerned about the unit tests, and only devs will take the time to learn how to install the optional components
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23:56 <@preaction> we should just Do The Right Thing when it comes to Admins, Designers, Content Managers, and Visitors
23:56 <@preaction> Admins should never have to concern themselves with Dev problems, Designers with Admin problems, Content Managers with Designer problems, etc..
23:57  * preaction should draw up a UI guideline document someday
23:57 <+perlDreamer> definitely
23:57 <+perlDreamer> documentation is good
23:57 <@preaction> we'd be able to simplify the UI if we specified the rules under which certain things should happen
23:59 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8128f54 / (4 files in 4 dirs): WebGUI now needs Test::Harness 3.17 or higher for the Survey. Fixes bug #11402. - http://bit.ly/aPGJYt
23:59 <@preaction> wait, is that really a bug?
23:59 <@preaction> if it's a bug, we can add the additional requirements to the 7.8 series
23:59 <+perlDreamer> it was supposed to go into 7.8, but was added late
--- Day changed Wed Mar 03 2010
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00:00 <+perlDreamer> so the change was backed out, with the condition it could go into 7.9
00:00 <+perlDreamer> so not really a bug
00:00 <@preaction> ahh
00:00 <@preaction> ok
00:00 <+perlDreamer> but I didn't want to forget it, so I posted a bug about it
00:00 <+perlDreamer> I did something similar with WeatherData
00:00 <@preaction> yeah, that's no problem. just making sure
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00:01 <+perlDreamer> speaking of the man himself!
00:01 <+perlDreamer> yo, patspam
00:01 <+perlDreamer> Did you detect a disturbance in the Survey?
00:04 <+perlDreamer> I need to go pick up the kids from school
00:04 <+perlDreamer> bbl
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01:35 < CIA-58> webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r13b7538 / (5 files in 4 dirs): start of conversion to metaclass roles - http://bit.ly/abUtee
01:35 < CIA-58> webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * ra2f0cbe / (6 files in 3 dirs): fix more things for metaclass roles - http://bit.ly/aByuWi
01:35 < CIA-58> webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r12fcdf2 / (6 files in 5 dirs): almost working using metaclass roles - http://bit.ly/bSq7DV
01:35 < CIA-58> webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * ra5f54a7 / (4 files in 3 dirs): mostly working definition roles - http://bit.ly/9m9rC4
01:54 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, the tests work, but Asset.pm is not in good shape
01:54 <@Haarg> what kind of problems are you running into?
01:55 <+perlDreamer> around blocks, and mixing property and has
01:56 <+perlDreamer> http://gist.github.com/320132
01:57 <@Haarg> when are you getting that?
01:58 <@Haarg> i just updated WebGUI8 and i'm not getting errors like that
01:58 <@Haarg> perl -Ilib -mWebGUI::Asset -wce1 works fine
01:59 <+perlDreamer> that's perl -wc -I /data/WebGUI/lib Asset.pm
02:00 <@Haarg> re-including the same file is what is messing it up
02:01 <@Haarg> does that normally work for you?  or does it normally work but with errors?
02:01 <@Haarg> err
02:01 <@Haarg> but with warnings
02:01 <+perlDreamer> it normally works, with no syntax errors, sometimes I get warnings about subroutines being redefined
02:01 <+perlDreamer> but all the Asset modules include one another incestuously
02:01 <@Haarg> yeah, but that is fine
02:02 <@Haarg> the problem is that you are giving it just the file
02:02 <+perlDreamer> I'll rewrite my vim bindkeys
02:02 <@Haarg> so it goes through Asset.pm, which includes WebGUI::AssetLineage, which includes WebGUI::Asset, which perl doesn't know it loaded already
02:03 <+perlDreamer> how do I use the new/improved Definition to build a role now?
02:03 <@Haarg> that's a good question.
02:06 <+perlDreamer> you mean the goal of doing this wasn't to make making roles possible?
02:06 <@Haarg> it was
02:06 <@Haarg> it's just not complete yet
02:10 <@Haarg> the first problem is that it tries to apply WebGUI::Definition::Role::Asset to the role class
02:20 <@Haarg> http://gist.github.com/320151 not perfect but at least gets RssFeed compiling
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02:24 <+perlDreamer> what causes the metaclass of RssFeed to be different?
02:24 <@Haarg> it is a role
02:24 <+perlDreamer> ah, use Moose::Role
02:25 <@Haarg> i can't get Asset::Wobject to load right now
02:25 <+perlDreamer> is that because it uses extends?
02:25 <@Haarg> possibly
02:26 <@Haarg> is something broken with extends?
02:26 <+perlDreamer> can't use extends with roles
02:26 <+perlDreamer> I think
02:26 <@Haarg> oh.  you can't use them in roles
02:26 <@Haarg> but you can still have inheritance with your non-role classes
02:27 <@Haarg> asset itself works
02:27 <@Haarg> but all subclasses are borken
02:29 <@Haarg> man that's a seriously screwed up error
02:30 <+perlDreamer> could you commit the gist patch?
02:30 <@Haarg> yeah.  i want to clean that up eventually but it's a good enough start.
02:31 < CIA-58> webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r38e2e09 / (lib/WebGUI/Definition.pm lib/WebGUI/Definition/Asset.pm): apply correct roles/metaroles to roles - http://bit.ly/c6UmhX
02:32 <+perlDreamer> thanks :)
02:33 <+perlDreamer> wait a sec
02:33 <+perlDreamer> the thing with extends should only fail if Asset.pm is a Role
02:33 <+perlDreamer> which it isn't
02:33 <@Haarg> exactly
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02:35 < CIA-58> webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * rd932543 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject.pm : clean up Wobject includes - http://bit.ly/cJN2Pt
02:35 <+perlDreamer> when you say it won't load, what does that mean?
02:36 <@Haarg> Asset::Wobject (or any other Asset subclass) fails to compile
02:36 <+perlDreamer> perl -I/data/WebGUI/lib -mWebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Article -wce1
02:36 <+perlDreamer> like that?
02:37 <+perlDreamer> Article compiles for me
02:37 <+perlDreamer> and until the most recent commit, Wobject compiled okay for me too
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02:44 < doc777> I seem to have gotten 2 sites that have "cross linked" themselves.  Each seems to be looking for files in the "other" domains folder and cannot find them. using the latest wre. Any clues as to what I have done wrong?
02:45 <+perlDreamer> check the config files
02:45 <+perlDreamer> uploadsPath
02:45 < doc777> ok, thanks :o)
02:48 < doc777> uploadsURL is /uploads should that be something else?  The uploads path looks correct.  But site A looks for files in site B dir according to modproxy-error.
02:49 <+perlDreamer> uploadsURL can be anything
02:50 <@preaction> DocumentRoot in the modproxy files?
02:52  * perlDreamer takes the kids to piano lessons.  I should be back online at 6pm or so
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02:53 < doc777> They seem correct. Everything was fine on site A, then I added site B and suddenly noticed site A was wrecked.  Checking the log file show that site A is looking at site Bs upload folder.
02:55 < doc777> I think it is this: RewriteRule ^/(.*) http://127.0.0.1:8081/$1
03:06 <@preaction> oh, old WRE
03:06 <@preaction> you need ProxyPreserveHost On
03:09 < doc777> Ah, let me check that out :)
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05:06  * patspam emerges from under a rock
05:06 <@preaction> yay!
05:06 <@preaction> how was it?
05:06 <+patspam> cosy :)
05:07 <+patspam> I installed linux based firmware (dd-wrt) on my router today, yay!
05:07 <+perlDreamer> patspam: no more TAP hacks in Survey
05:07 <+patspam> tell me more
05:10 <+perlDreamer> well, we have WebGUI 7.9 now, so I made Test::Harness 3.x a requirement
05:11 <+perlDreamer> so no more eval { require TAP::MOD } or show_error_message;
05:12 <+patspam> sweet!
05:13 <+patspam> dang, I just transcoded a dvd of old family footage and the resulting avi file was bigger than the original vob files
05:17 <+perlDreamer> oy
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07:09 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r644b74c / docs/create.sql : Ready for 7.8.14 release. - http://bit.ly/by7wyx
07:37 <+perlDreamer> all done
07:37 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rca0d7cc / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.8.15 development. - http://bit.ly/b5rt3E
07:41 -!- Radix_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [7.7.33-stable | 7.8.14-stable | WRE 0.9.3] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org | Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com
07:42 <+perlDreamer> thanks, Radix_
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17:03 <+perlDreamer> bartjol, you are internationally happy today?
17:06 <+bartjol> eeeh, hevan't looked yet
17:06 <+bartjol> oh, I did
17:06 <+bartjol> but only at the macro
17:06 <+bartjol> and I had all stuff installed already
17:07 <+bartjol> richedit is great too
17:10 <+bartjol> and i18n still at 100%
17:18 < SDuensin> Hey gang.  Does the new 7.8.14 upgrade correctly?
17:18 <+bartjol> mine did
17:18 < SDuensin> I know it had missing packages or something last time, so I waited.
17:18 <+bartjol> haven't found any yet
17:19 <+bartjol> but I installed them with the script
17:19 <+bartjol> so that is not complete certainty
17:19 <+bartjol> i.e: I took another route
17:20 < SDuensin> I'll quit asking you then.  :-P
17:20 < SDuensin> I fear upgrades enough as it is.
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17:22 <+bartjol> but what you can do
17:22 <+bartjol> to copy my path
17:23 <+bartjol> is upgrade to 7.8.13, run the packages script and then upgrade to 7.8.14
17:23 <+bartjol> SDuensin: just as easy :)
17:24 < SDuensin> True.
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17:25 <+bartjol> and don't follow rogiers directions on login templates
17:27 <+perlDreamer> 7.8.14 is all fixed up
17:28 <+perlDreamer> the missing templates are added back in
17:28 <+perlDreamer> and yeah, don't let rogier muck with your login templates
17:28 <+perlDreamer> otherwise bartjol the mean admin will laugh at you
17:28 <+bartjol> I know, but I just didn't test it the "normal" way
17:29 <+perlDreamer> bartjol, do you have the screen program installed on your servers?
17:29 <+bartjol> oh, yeah, you asked silly questions, let me ponder on how to lay my wrath opun you
17:29 < SDuensin> perlDreamer - So pop to the latest 7.7.x and then on up?
17:29 <+bartjol> bart@host116~> which screen
17:29 <+bartjol> /usr/bin/screen
17:29 <+bartjol> I do apparently
17:29 < SDuensin> SCREEN!
17:30  * SDuensin loves that program.
17:30 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin, what version are you on now?
17:30 < SDuensin> Uh.  Looking.
17:31 <+bartjol> but maybe not all
17:31 < SDuensin> 7.7.32
17:31 <+bartjol> today is a day of dumb people asking questions
17:31 <+perlDreamer> so, upgrade to 7.7.33
17:31 <+perlDreamer> then go to 7.8.13
17:31 <+bartjol> bbiam
17:32 < SDuensin> 7.8.13?
17:34 <+perlDreamer> 7.8.13
17:34 <+perlDreamer> well,7.8.14
17:34 <+perlDreamer> but the upgrade path is 7.7.x to 7.7.33 to 7.8.13 to 7.8.14
17:34 < SDuensin> Ok.  Didn't know there was a stop at 13.
17:36 <+perlDreamer> there's not a stop, but instead of going from 7.7.33 to 7.8.0, it will shunt you up to 7.8.13
17:38 < SDuensin> ok.
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18:23 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r53d63bc / (docs/create.sql docs/previousVersion.sql): Fix SQL scripts for the next beta release. - http://bit.ly/aCFPNU
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19:18 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, why does WebGUI::Definition::Meta::Class need to install the properties into a new anonymous class?
19:18 <+perlDreamer> and oose.pm is just evil
19:28 <@Haarg> it needs to have an instance of the attribute metaclass to check for which sub-attributes to stick in 'form'
19:30 <+perlDreamer> so, before the recent set of patches, Moose was building one for us?
19:38 <@Haarg> we weren't using a role but specifying a class.  so there was no need to construct the class, we already had it.
19:43 <+perlDreamer> would it be easier to duplicate the Definition code in another class that is the base class for Roles, instead of trying to build a dual purpose solution?
19:44 <@Haarg> possibly
19:45 <@Haarg> having the if condition i added in seems to work for that part though.
19:47 <+perlDreamer> sure.  I was just thinking about the Asset subclasses not being able to load the anonymous meta classes
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21:04 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r122bd26 / (lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm t/Asset.t): Add keywords accessor for looking up Asset keywords. - http://bit.ly/deCsLs
21:06 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, did you try using any of the Asset subclasses, or just syntax check them?
21:10 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r0a0b655 / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Eval and error handling for processTemplate. - http://bit.ly/dn2zKg
21:10 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r44c6048 / t/Asset/Wobject/Shelf.t : Update test for exception handling. - http://bit.ly/a48MoX
21:10 <+perlDreamer> I just realized I've been running wobject tests for the last 20 minutes
21:10 <@Haarg> looks like maybe i'm only getting warnings
21:11 <+perlDreamer> I saw the same thing, and figured they were errors
21:11 <+perlDreamer> shelf works, btw
21:12 <@Haarg> very strange warnings though
21:12 <@Haarg> and if i try to load WebGUI::Asset::File i get a warning
21:12 <@Haarg> but if i try to load WebGUI::Asset::File::Image i don't
21:13 <+perlDreamer> I see that, too
21:14 <+perlDreamer> ZipArchive has warnings
21:39 <@Haarg> what i'm wondering is why Asset is getting an anonymous superclass
21:41  * perlDreamer quotes Bart Simpson, "I didn't do it!"
21:41 <+perlDreamer> shouldn't the anonymous superclass be the class for the role that is added?
21:43 <@Haarg> i guess
21:49 < CIA-58> webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * rd7b0d93 / (lib/WebGUI/Definition.pm lib/WebGUI/Definition/Asset.pm): Apply Definition roles properly to eliminate warnings - http://bit.ly/8Y0ouh
21:50 <@Haarg> Collaboration is compiling with RssFeed as a role.  haven't tried to do any testing though.
21:52 <+perlDreamer> testing I can do
21:52 <+perlDreamer> brilliant API design and implementation I leave to my betters
21:52 <+perlDreamer> however, right now I'm leaving my betters to go running
21:53 <@Haarg> 'brilliant' may be stretching it a bit.  at this point i'm hoping i haven't invented something too complex.
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23:28 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb4a790a / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/fileImport.pl): Fix handling filenames with space with overwrite=1 in fileImport.pl. Fixes bug #11453 - http://bit.ly/dxU23B
23:28 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r446403c / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/fileImport.pl): Fix handling filenames with space with overwrite=1 in fileImport.pl. Fixes bug #11453 - http://bit.ly/9bMUUN
23:30 <+perlDreamer> Haarg: the role seems to be adopting the table of the consumer
23:31 <+perlDreamer> but that may be an artifact of the way I wrote write
23:32 <+perlDreamer> http://gist.github.com/321054
23:52 < kimd> preaction, do you have time for a quick JS question?
23:52 < kimd> How can access the id of an element?
23:52 < kimd> el.id doesn't work.
23:54 < kimd> Or does someone else know?
--- Day changed Thu Mar 04 2010
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00:04 <@Haarg> perlDreamer, probably because of the way the get_all_tables method works
00:04 < kimd> Ok, I got it. No need to answer.
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00:27 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, it's both
00:27 <+perlDreamer> since roles inject themselves into the class
00:27 <+perlDreamer> inspecting the class metas is flawed
00:27 <+perlDreamer> I think someone mentioned that to me at one point
00:39 <@preaction> version tags serve two purposes: staging content and history/rollback, correct?
00:40 <@preaction> for the most part, users don't want staging content unless they actually know they want it, then they could take an extra step or two to create a "stage"
00:41 <@preaction> and history/rollback can be done without staging content
00:42 <@preaction> three purposes: approval
00:42 <+perlDreamer> approval is a side effect of staging
00:42 <+perlDreamer> and has little to do with the tags themselves
00:43 <+perlDreamer> at least, that's the way that version tags are built today
00:43 <@preaction> right
00:45 <@preaction> i'm just thinking that websites keep evolving, everybody wants to add content and admins want that content added in a structured way
00:46 <@preaction> and if we could do it all again... what would we do?
00:47 <+perlDreamer> Haarg has this idea about versions versus revisions
00:47 <+perlDreamer> right now an asset can contain both
00:47 <+perlDreamer> well, not really versions versus revisions, but versioned and non-versioned data
00:47 <+perlDreamer> and that you should be able to access them independently
00:48 <@preaction> well, in a DBIC world there'd be a DBIC::Versioned or whatever
00:49 <@preaction> or a WebGUI::Model::Role::Versioned
00:51 <@preaction> and in a perfect world i'd have a pony
00:52 <+perlDreamer> in a perfect world, I'd give you the pony
00:52 <+perlDreamer> I think WebGUI's version system works okay
00:52 <+perlDreamer> it could be implemented better though
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00:53 <+perlDreamer> and it would be nice if it versioned everything
00:53 <+perlDreamer> but I know that's much more challenging
00:54 <@preaction> would anyone object if Folder had a checkbox to "Commit added files automatically"
00:55 <+perlDreamer> how about if it has a user selectable workflow in the edit properties?
00:55 <@preaction> of course it would need that
00:55 <+perlDreamer> it won't work
00:55 <@preaction> but then what about subfolders?
00:56 <+perlDreamer> they inherit from the parent, or you can override
00:56 <+perlDreamer> it won't work because the children don't check the parent for the autocommit tag
00:56 <@preaction> this just opens a nice big huge can of worms
00:56 <+perlDreamer> yes
00:56 <+perlDreamer> what that person wants is per branch configuration of commit workflow
00:58 <@preaction> why does it always seem like i could reduce WebGUI to like 5 assets?
00:58 <+perlDreamer> they'd be 5 very fat assets, not like the beautiful ones we have now :P
01:00 <@preaction> which ones are those?
01:00 <@preaction> we'd need a Folder, a Calendar, a RawContent, a RichContent, and a File
01:00 <+perlDreamer> What about Sku's?
01:01 <+perlDreamer> and the DataForm?
01:01 <+perlDreamer> or forum?
01:01 <@preaction> Form of course
01:01 <@preaction> forum is a folder of folders of richcontents
01:01 <@preaction> gallery is a folder of folders of files
01:01 <@preaction> blog is a folder of richcontents
01:02 <@preaction> richcontent would have useful, individually-placed attachments
01:02 <@preaction> wiki is a folder of richcontents editable by anyone
01:03 <+perlDreamer> Poll?
01:03 <@preaction> form with a proper set of reporting features
01:04 <+perlDreamer> Sku?
01:04 <@preaction> would have to be its own asset as part of shop, but that's an entire subsystem of its own
01:04 <@preaction> and a subclass of RichContent, of course
01:06 <+perlDreamer> Sku is a role
01:06 <+perlDreamer> so that you can buy or sell any of the other ones
01:10 <+perlDreamer> I wouldn't doubt that you could do what you're talking about
01:10 <+perlDreamer> I think we'd end up with "deep" sets of assets, instead of "wide" ones
01:10 <+perlDreamer> where there are lots of subclasses, instead of siblings
01:16 <+perlDreamer> preaction: how about a CommitMyChanges macro?
01:16 <+perlDreamer> that would work outside of TurnAdminOn
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01:17 <@preaction> they're normal users though, they don't know about version tags or committing or anything like that
01:17 <+perlDreamer> you could make the label say anything
01:17 <+perlDreamer> You must check-in your files after uploading
01:17 <+perlDreamer> or whatever
01:17 <+perlDreamer> the thing is, what the user really needs is access to the commit link
01:18 <@preaction> well, what the user really needs is for the Gallery to allow any file uploads
01:18 <@preaction> or to use a Collaboration System, or something
01:19 <+perlDreamer> could you style a gallery to look like a folder
01:19 <+perlDreamer> without albums and thumbnails and the like?
01:19 <@preaction> of course
01:22 <+perlDreamer> wel
01:22 <+perlDreamer> Folder is such a nice, small, Asset though
01:22 <+perlDreamer> Gallery is big!
01:24 <@preaction> yes, but Gallery is only big because it has to deal with normal user input and versioning. if Folder had to, it would be big too
01:25 <+perlDreamer> can you deep nest albums, like Folders?
01:25 <@preaction> if we let anyone add files to a folder, we have to control it, filter it, secure it, and etc...
01:25 <@preaction> no, but that's not out of the question as a feature
01:26 <@preaction> just, nobody asked for it. nobody ever asks for it
01:27 <+perlDreamer> Haarg: new write method for Asset -> http://gist.github.com/321187
01:27 <+perlDreamer> I need to expand the tests to consider roles
01:31 <+perlDreamer> preaction, it seems to be a dance between implementing so many features that we're too big to use, and not having enough features for people to get work done
01:32 <@preaction> yes. we add too little for the feature to matter to people to want to use it
01:35 <+perlDreamer> I'm not sure about that
01:36 <@preaction> i've heard a dozen times people don't use Gallery simply because they can't nest albums
01:38 <+perlDreamer> they why don't they file an RFE to get it done?
01:38 <+perlDreamer> or pay to get it done?
01:38 <+perlDreamer> or just write it themselves?
01:38 <@preaction> because they aren't invested enough, they'd rather go find something that works
01:39 <@preaction> they'd rather get their job done instead of merely telling someone else to do it
01:40 <+perlDreamer> then we have to be psychic enough to know what people are going to need before we write stuff
01:40 <@preaction> that's easy though: look at what everyone else is doing
01:46 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4d3d031 / lib/WebGUI/Definition/Meta/Asset.pm : remove copy/paste variable names. - http://bit.ly/ahADuf
01:46 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf88c18e / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Fix the write method to iterate over each property to get the table names instead of looking in the class metaproperties. - http://bit.ly/aQbbjK
01:46 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3d52c45 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Changes to Post and Collaboration, for new Asset instanciators. - http://bit.ly/auSYje
01:46 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rda57427 / asset_status.ods : Collaboration tests are passing now. - http://bit.ly/9Yl3Ke
01:46 <+perlDreamer> everyone else is using PHP :D
02:02 <@preaction> but we can copy their features
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02:32 <+perlDreamer> t/00_compile.t can be run!
02:33 <+perlDreamer> github is down
02:33 <+perlDreamer> a large portion of developers all leave for coffee
02:35 <+perlDreamer> on the way out, they smile sadly at their boss and say, "Sorry, boss. But with github down we can do any work."
02:36 <+perlDreamer> and the Boss scratches his head and says, "I thought that GitHub allowed offline work, which is why they spend all that time in the coffee shop...'
02:36 <@preaction> and then they remember that git is distributed and allows pushing directly to production
02:41 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r814c2af / (55 files in 6 dirs): Change calls to new to newById across Asset/ - http://bit.ly/c9rLvt
02:41 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8f6c20d / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix lots of syntax errors and bad definition configuration. - http://bit.ly/d8XcR7
02:41 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r65a5053 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/WikiPage.pm : Fix a missing label in the WikiPage - http://bit.ly/9xWi9c
02:41 <+perlDreamer> Today is a big day, preaction
02:41 <+perlDreamer> t/00_compile.t runs clean
02:42 <@preaction> yay!
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02:43 <+perlDreamer> I think that in 2-3 weeks we could use an alpha server up and running for wg8
02:43 <+perlDreamer> is that doable?
02:43 <@preaction> we also need every action a user is allowed to do to be configurable... because that is eventually what they want
02:44 <+perlDreamer> in wg8?
02:44 <@preaction> no, 7
02:44  * perlDreamer is having a hard time with the context change
02:44 <+perlDreamer> what kind of actions, and what kind of configurability?
02:44 <@preaction> sorry, i'm approving RFEs, since we're unfrozen again
02:45 <+perlDreamer> I warned you about those german language RFEs
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03:59 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r9b4a9be / (7 files in 2 dirs): Remove usage of Class:C3 in favor of roles. - http://bit.ly/bkzcjG
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04:10 <@preaction> so many things are easy to do when you're first building an app, and absolutely impossible when you've got it deployed
04:10 <@preaction> and so braindead as to wonder WHY it wasn't added in the first place
04:16 <@preaction> i swear to god one day i'm gonna burn this place to the ground
04:31 <@preaction> wonderful. i can't approve any other RFEs because i Can't find them. HelpDesk doesn't save sorting through pages
04:38 <+perlDreamer> sounds like we should fix the sorting bug in the HelpDesk, sooner rather than later?
04:42 <@preaction> frodwith will be doing so once he's finished with automat, so hopefully April
04:43 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r7e673d4 / lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/RssFeed.pm : Don't need no stinkin' strict anymore! - http://bit.ly/ajKdGK
04:43 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r5dc0299 / (4 files in 3 dirs): First cut at moving Subscribable to an Asset. - http://bit.ly/cffoTM
04:45 <@preaction> that's the new tack: make paul do it
04:46 <+perlDreamer> can you wait that long?
04:47 <+perlDreamer> in any case, while we're working on the helpdesk, we need to display the time that a ticket was submited
04:47 <@preaction> yeah, nobody's gonna be putting anything into 7.9 anyway
04:47 <+perlDreamer> I think you may be surprised about that...
04:47 <+perlDreamer> Luke Robinson's Login form code is a nice addition
04:47 <@preaction> i know arjan has a couple things
04:47 <+perlDreamer> and I may have a few pDC things to add as well
04:48 <+perlDreamer> like the Folder DataForm template
04:48 <@preaction> folder dataform template?
04:48 <+perlDreamer> I'll get you a URL
04:49 <+perlDreamer> http://www.webgui.org/bazaar/file-manager-style-template-for-folder
04:49 <+perlDreamer> the other thing I'd like to work on is the Asset manager pop-up menu rewrite
04:49 <+perlDreamer> where we use 1 menu and pop it up in the right place, instead of making 25-50 of them
04:49 <+perlDreamer> should really speed things up for loading
04:51 <+perlDreamer> whaddya think?
04:51 <+perlDreamer> (about the folder)
04:51 <@preaction> sounds fine to me
04:53 <+perlDreamer> also, knowing patspam, I wouldn't doubt there's something that couldn't be worked in wG 7.9 from SDH
04:53 <+perlDreamer> maybe the template usage search and replace code
04:54 <@preaction> heh, yeah, not seeing that happening
04:54 <@preaction> webgui 7 just needs to go away
04:54 <@preaction> and 8 too
04:54 <@preaction> we need WebGUI X
04:54 <@preaction> (that's 10, not Ecks)
04:57 <+perlDreamer> 8 will be good stuff
04:57 <+perlDreamer> I just hope we don't get the huge turnover that happened with 6-7
04:58 <+perlDreamer> I think we should do 1 high profile RFE, though
04:58 <+perlDreamer> even if we have to do it off hours
04:58 <+perlDreamer> it was a promise PB made to the community
04:59 <@preaction> but WebGUI 8 has to be ready, period
05:01 <+patspam> I'm hanging out for wg11
05:02 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra37b1c7 / lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/Subscribable.pm : Cleanup for moose accessors. - http://bit.ly/dhSLHD
05:02 <+perlDreamer> I don't think there will ever be a WebGUI bigger than 8
05:02 <+perlDreamer> Gooey is out of tentacles
05:05 <@preaction> if i have complete authority for 2 major versions, i can make something totally awesome
05:10 <+perlDreamer> If you'd make a Trait for JSON in an Asset property that would be totally awesome now
05:11 <@preaction> but i don't like JSON in assets
05:11 <@preaction> would even go so far as to say i hate it
05:11 <+perlDreamer> how would you do it differently?
05:13 <@preaction> normalized
05:15 <+perlDreamer> see, you're using one of those CS terms that I don't understand
05:15 <@preaction> a joined table
05:16 <+perlDreamer> Is the Installable AssetAspect used anywhere?
05:22 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2b39e16 / (4 files in 2 dirs): Rough conversion of Comments and Installable to Moose. - http://bit.ly/bs75wc
05:31 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r36b6081 / (3 files): Update 3 Form plugins for Asset instanciators and exceptions. - http://bit.ly/anQQE5
05:35 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra62e7b7 / lib/WebGUI/Session/Style.pm : Update Session for new Asset instanciators and exceptions. - http://bit.ly/aLKgIO
05:38 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4137b19 / lib/WebGUI/Account/Inbox.pm : Update Account/Inbox plugin for new Asset instanciators and exceptions. - http://bit.ly/bKZK8f
05:39 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r913802f / lib/WebGUI/Account/Inbox.pm : And again... - http://bit.ly/c9OvDh
05:43 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * raab930a / lib/WebGUI/Content/AssetDiscovery.pm : Update Content handlers for wg8. - http://bit.ly/bx3kSX
05:43 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r19d4e6d / lib/WebGUI/AdminConsole.pm : Update AdminConsole for instaniators. - http://bit.ly/dpzvbo
05:44 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd9e2816 / lib/WebGUI/Operation/Help.pm : Update Operation/Help for new asset instanciators. - http://bit.ly/bcHo2a
05:48 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * red58eba / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : More instanciator cleanup in Asset.pm - http://bit.ly/bN71T4
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06:15 <+patspam> night all
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06:45 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re759890 / lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/TrashExpiredEvents.pm : Update TrashExpiredEvents to wg8. - http://bit.ly/bNahwL
06:45 <+perlDreamer> select assetId from EventsCalendar_event where eventEndDate < ?
06:47 <@preaction> sounds awesome
06:47 <+perlDreamer> aside from the table not existing
06:47 <+perlDreamer> I'm guessing this is another one of those low usage workflow activities
06:48 <@preaction> probably
06:49 <+perlDreamer> I want to convert all the other classes over to Moose now
06:50 <+perlDreamer> well, either that or write tests for 6 weeks non-stop
06:50 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1706747 / lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/TrashExpiredEvents.pm : Fix this completely broken Workflow Activity. - http://bit.ly/bZIsPc
06:50 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r3471f62 / lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/TrashExpiredEvents.pm : Fix this completely broken Workflow Activity. - http://bit.ly/ceCmlw
06:53 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rcd2c1f5 / lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/GetSyndicatedContent.pm : Update workflow activity for wg8. - http://bit.ly/9eHw7P
06:55 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2147d7f / lib/WebGUI/AssetTrash.pm : Update getAssetsInTrash method for wg8 instanciations and exception handling. - http://bit.ly/bXXPG2
06:56 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3e7e2c4 / lib/WebGUI/AssetTrash.pm : And again. - http://bit.ly/bCsrWR
06:57 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r03427ee / lib/WebGUI/ProgressBar.pm : Update ProgressBar for new wg8 instanciators. - http://bit.ly/cHZT0a
07:08 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * recc71d4 / (6 files in 3 dirs): Update Shop for new instanciators and for exception handling. - http://bit.ly/9QH7bt
07:08 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rdfc388f / (2 files in 2 dirs): More Subscribable fixes. - http://bit.ly/9SPg94
07:10 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rbf1cb7b / (7 files in 2 dirs): Aspect to Role renaming - http://bit.ly/cO4Ytq
07:26 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r26e50b9 / lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/RssFeed.pm : Fix POD typo. - http://bit.ly/a0GpLn
07:26 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, preaction, the SC asset is currently broke in wg8.  I'll be fixing it tomorrow.
07:26 <@preaction> it's okay, nobody's gonna use the SC asset in WG8 for a while
07:29 <+perlDreamer> hopefully not too long
07:29 <+perlDreamer> of course, there's still all the editing interfaces to work on
07:29 <+perlDreamer> but building wg8 may be one of the best things to ever happen to wg7
07:29 <+perlDreamer> since we're literally crawling through all the code
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16:44 < SDuensin> Greetings.
16:45 <+MrHairgrease> Greasings
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17:31 <+patspam> morning perlDreamer
17:31 <+perlDreamer> howdy, patspam
17:31 <+perlDreamer> big milestone in WebGUI 8 last night
17:31 <+perlDreamer> the syntax check ran clean
17:31 <+perlDreamer> and Roles seem to be working for the most part
17:32 <+perlDreamer> needs more testing though
17:32 < SDuensin> Whaaa?  Cool!
17:32 <+perlDreamer> and ahead of us, is the new CHI caching infratructure
17:32 <+perlDreamer> and change to automated form building in all assets
17:33 < SDuensin> Is there a roadmap anywhere?  Just curious as to what you're planning for 8.
17:39 <+perlDreamer> there was a roadmap presented at the WUC
17:39 <+perlDreamer> it's changed since then, though
17:39 <+perlDreamer> you could try asking preaction, or searching through the Black Blog for the older announcements
17:39 < SDuensin> I know how that is.  My roadmap changes direction like a flag in a thunderstorm.
17:40 <+MrHairgrease> SDuensin: http://www.webgui.org/use/wgtv/wgtv/2009-state-of-webgui#idgV-xaRzZhRqX-3hbNo5Jhw
17:40 < SDuensin> Thanks!  I was just headed to the TV area to look around!
17:40 <+MrHairgrease> I think that the initial wg 8 roadmap was reveiled there
17:41 < SDuensin> (Buffering!)
17:42 < SDuensin> This is kind of an obvious URL, now that I see it...   http://www.webgui.org/roadmap
17:47 < ckotil> heh
17:48 < SDuensin> I like this statement:  "WebGUI 8 is about strengthening the platform for the future, and about improving the user experience."
17:48 < SDuensin> The hardest part I have in selling WebGUI to people is the appearance.  Not to be cruel, but the default look is ugly at best.
17:49 < SDuensin> You put an out-of-the-box WebGUI next to something like Liferay and it just makes WebGUI look old.
17:50 < SDuensin> Unfortunately, people don't realize the "problem" isn't a problem until they've run off with something else and find out it sucks.  :-/
18:00 <+perlDreamer> gosh, that turd sure looked purdy
18:00 <+MrHairgrease> hmmm
18:01  * MrHairgrease is not sure he wants to know...
18:01 < SDuensin> hehe
18:01 <+MrHairgrease> and what is purdy
18:02 < SDuensin> People like all the snazzy AJAXy crap.
18:03 <+perlDreamer> purdy is slang for pretty
18:03 <+perlDreamer> with a southern drawl
18:03  * ckotil plucks the banjo
18:04 <+MrHairgrease> oh if it's pretty then I'm all ears
18:04 <+MrHairgrease> tell us about the pretty turd
18:04 <+perlDreamer> well, gosh, it has that nice thing where it gets all blinky
18:05 <+perlDreamer> and when I start to type, it already knows what I'm going to say
18:05 <+perlDreamer> all the corners are roundy
18:05 <+perlDreamer> it just looks cool
18:05 < SDuensin> Yes!  Roundy!
18:05  * SDuensin wrote a roundy corner thing for WebGUI.
18:05 <+perlDreamer> I couldn't get it to do anything useful, but it's sure purdy
18:06 <+MrHairgrease> seems like general eurotrash to me
18:06 <+MrHairgrease> =)
18:06 <+perlDreamer> that would be a euroturd
18:06 <+MrHairgrease> hehe
18:06 < SDuensin> Look!  Roundy test!  http://allplay.jaegertech.net/
18:08 <+bartjol> what, is there a generic solution for that?
18:08 <+perlDreamer> yes, it's called CSS
18:08 < SDuensin> I'm trying.
18:08 <+MrHairgrease> hmm, the style seems to be a mix between modern realism and postapocalyptic neopurdyism
18:08 <+bartjol> that'll put 30% of all webbuilders without work
18:09 <+bartjol> which css?
18:09 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI itself doesn't care what it looks like
18:09 <+perlDreamer> it's all just styling
18:09 <+MrHairgrease> bart: http://allplay.jaegertech.net/purdyroundies.css
18:10 <+bartjol> nice
18:10 < SDuensin> It's some javascript/css stuff I found and then I did an article template that lets you easily set the style.
18:10 <+perlDreamer> I'm surprised someone hasn't come up with a business of selling WebGUI style packages
18:10 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin, sounds like a great thing to put in the Bazaar
18:10 < SDuensin> Once it no longer sucks, sure.  :-)
18:11 <+perlDreamer> ah
18:11 <+perlDreamer> I put up the sortable DataForm template before it was done
18:11 <+perlDreamer> and some people actually fixed the bugs for me
18:11 < SDuensin> Freaky.
18:11 <+perlDreamer> Don't sit on it until it's perfect, otherwise it'll never get done
18:12 < SDuensin> Right now, you put the extra style details in the "Summary" field of the article.
18:13 < SDuensin> Just feels "hacky" to me.
18:13 <+perlDreamer> why not put it in the extraHeadTags?
18:13 <+perlDreamer> or in the template itself?
18:14 < SDuensin> Because it's per-article.
18:14 < SDuensin> WTF is Swiftysite?  Google doesn't know them.
18:14 <+perlDreamer> Swiftysite is someone peeling off the top of WebGUI, restyling it, and selling cheap website in the Netherlands
18:14 <+perlDreamer> very, very nice people
18:14 <+perlDreamer> you should come to a WUC and meet them
18:15 < SDuensin> I'd like to.  But they should talk to Google, too!
18:18 <+perlDreamer> well, if any of the guys come into the IRC room, I'll point that out to them
18:18 <+perlDreamer> hang on
18:18 <+perlDreamer> when I type in swiftysite into google, it's the first result
18:18 <+perlDreamer> alphamegahosting.com
18:18 <+perlDreamer> that's them
18:18 <+MrHairgrease> here as well
18:18 <+perlDreamer> maybe SDuensin has thick fingers or something
18:19 < SDuensin> Really?  Trying again!
18:20 < SDuensin> Ok, you guys just added it.  :-P
18:20 <+bartjol> yeah, we plugged into googles db
18:21 < ckotil> swiftysite is powered by webgui?
18:21 < ckotil> that's awesome.  ive used it a time or two. dont understand a lick of it, but it makes great websites
18:21 < SDuensin> hehe
18:24 <+perlDreamer> yay! slow support day.  I'm going to get tons of hacking done
18:25 < SDuensin> HaCkInG!
18:26 <+perlDreamer> well, for me, it is haCKing
18:26 < SDuensin> The Wrath of Koen!
18:26 <+perlDreamer> I try not to begrudge Calvin Klein the use of my initials
18:26 <+bartjol> we lumberjack with it
18:26 < ckotil> pd!  you to?
18:27 <+MrHairgrease> well, have fun with your purdy turds
18:27  * MrHairgrease is off!
18:27  * bartjol follows him on the feet
18:27 <+perlDreamer> me, too ckotil
18:28 <+perlDreamer> later, you Nederlanderin
18:28 <+bartjol> we're male
18:28 < ckotil> we share initials with the mild manner Clark Kent too
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18:29 <+perlDreamer> MrHairgrease, should I have said Nederlanderer?
18:30 <+MrHairgrease> Nederlanders
18:30 <+MrHairgrease> and now
18:30 <+MrHairgrease> its 
18:30 <+MrHairgrease> time 
18:30 <+MrHairgrease> to GO and enjoy my free time!
18:30 <+MrHairgrease> woot
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18:38 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r35e1e8c / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/SyndicatedContent.pm : Fix SC use of RssFeed role. - http://bit.ly/bRsiNQ
18:40 < SDuensin> Free time?  Wazzat?
18:48 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf17fc5c / (12 files): Update Macros for wg8 instanciators. - http://bit.ly/be1S8Z
18:48 <+perlDreamer> that's when you work on Free Software projects and drink beer
18:49 < SDuensin> Must be nice.
18:51 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r360acb5 / lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/Subscribable.pm : Use wg8 instanciators. - http://bit.ly/ak9xmy
18:53 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3d9006b / (3 files in 2 dirs): Update Auth system for wg8 instanciators. - http://bit.ly/bR4sER
18:55 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd5dd260 / (2 files in 2 dirs): More instanciator cleanup. - http://bit.ly/9iW39m
18:56 < SDuensin> There he goes talking about WebGUI FS again.  Evil tease!
18:56 <+perlDreamer> ah, quit griping, break out yer keyboard and start hackin'
18:57 < SDuensin> I know, I know!
18:58 < SDuensin> I have a list of things I want to do to WebGUI that's a mile long.
18:59 < SDuensin> Run CNN.com through the story manager?  Does CNN know about this?  :-)
18:59 < mducharme-work> holy
18:59 < mducharme-work> when did 7.8 go stable
19:00 < SDuensin> Last week, I believe.
19:00 < mducharme-work> I've been out of it for a few weeks and suddenly everything changes
19:00 < mducharme-work> any gotchas for upgrading from 7.7.30 up through the current 7.8?
19:01 <+perlDreamer> any known ones where fixed in 7.8.14 2 days ago
19:01 < SDuensin> Yes.  You have to make a stop at 7.7.33, I believe.  Whatever the last 7.7.x is.
19:01 <+perlDreamer> we need more brave souls to test upgrading on live sites for us
19:01 < SDuensin> I was going to be brave last night, but the kids had other plans.
19:05 <+perlDreamer> preaction: I'd really like to use Test::Sweet, but prove doesn't like i
19:05 <+perlDreamer> it
19:13 < mducharme-work> ok, upgrading to 7.7.33
19:15 <+perlDreamer> SD, if you want a project to help WebGUI out, start a wiki page with a list of all known upgrade points and stop versions.
19:16 < SDuensin> That'll be a short list.  I only remember 7.7.33!
19:25 < mducharme-work> hrm
19:25 < mducharme-work> I'm trying to install Locales::Country like mentioned in the gotchas
19:25 < mducharme-work> cpan says no such package found
19:26 < mducharme-work> is that the wrong name for it?
19:27 <@preaction> mducharme-work: just use testEnvironment.pl, if that works, Webgui will work
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19:30 < mducharme-work> 7.8.3 --------------------------------------------------------------------    * WebGUI now requires Locales::Country 0.05 or higher to use the UPS shipping driver.
19:31 < mducharme-work> guys, that is a typo in the gotchas
19:31 < mducharme-work> that should say Locale::Country
19:31 < mducharme-work> I think
19:31 < mducharme-work> because I'm able to install "Locale::Country" but "Locales::Country" does not exist
19:33 < mducharme-work> should I open a ticket for the typo?
19:36  * SDuensin sighs - the roadmap wants to move configs out of the database and into the config files.  Go the other way!
19:36 < mducharme-work> oops.. not a typo, a newer gotcha says that was replaced with an older one
19:36 < SDuensin> :-)
19:36 < mducharme-work> this really should be simpler
19:36 < mducharme-work> I hate parsing manually through gotcha files desparately trying to make sure I do not miss any perl module requirements
19:40 < mducharme-work> 7.8.14 here I come
19:41 < SDuensin> :-)
19:42 < mducharme-work> any new storymanager templates in 7.8.x by any chance??
19:46  * SDuensin has no idea.
19:46 < mducharme-work> woo, everything works
19:47 < mducharme-work> upgrade went very smooth
19:47 < mducharme-work> now to upgrade my other client's server
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19:59 < SDuensin> Sweet!
20:07 < mducharme-work> all done
20:07 < mducharme-work> all my servers are at 7.8.14 now
20:09 < SDuensin> Nice!  Now you're making me feel lazy!
20:28 <+perlDreamer> mducharme-work, Locales::Country should have been replace by Locales...
20:28 <+perlDreamer> let me check on that
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20:36 < mducharme-work> perldreamer yeah it was but the old gotcha is still there
20:36 < mducharme-work> thjat says to install Locales::Country, so I was trying to do that
20:36 <+perlDreamer> hm, perhaps the newer one should be made clearer
20:36 < mducharme-work> I go through the gotchas in sequence from oldest to newest when I am looking at what to upgrade
20:37 < mducharme-work> so I saw the older module before the newer one
20:39 <+perlDreamer> I'll put a note about the change next to the older one, as well
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20:54 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r109f06c / docs/gotcha.txt : Make the replacement of Locale::Country with Locales more clear, w.r.t the 7.8.3 gotcha. - http://bit.ly/ciTQVf
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21:47 < kimd> Evening, everyone!
21:47 <+perlDreamer> yo, kimd
21:49 < kimd> perlDreamer, I like your WNN!
21:49 < kimd> Subscribed to the RSS feed yesterday.
21:49 < kimd> Keep on writing!
21:49 <+perlDreamer> thanks :).  Unfortunately, it's languished for a long time.
21:49 < kimd> You should advertise it a bit more.
21:51 <+perlDreamer> When I started a year ago, I did
21:52 < kimd> I must have missed that.
21:52 < kimd> No readers?
21:53 <+perlDreamer> no, just lack of time
21:53 <+perlDreamer> when my wife started school full time, I lost lots of my spare time
21:54 < kimd> Hm, spare time is a precious good.
21:54 < kimd> I wished I had more.
21:54 < kimd> But now to something completely unrelated:
21:54 < kimd> Is there a switch statement in perl?
21:54 <+perlDreamer> in 5.10 there is
21:54 <@preaction> there is in 5.10, given/when
21:55 <+perlDreamer> and in 5.8, there is a perl module called Switch, but it's a source filter and can suffer from performance and other issues
21:56 < kimd> Does that mean I should not use it?
21:57 < kimd> I mean, the Switch module?
21:57 < kimd> We are still using 5.8 in the wre, correct?
21:57 <@preaction> 5.10 actually
21:58 <@preaction> but we only require 5.8
21:58 <@preaction> WebGUI 8 can require 5.10
21:59 < kimd> I assume that means I should not use given/when yet?
21:59 <+perlDreamer> if you want to make custom code for your own server, go ahead and use it
21:59 <+perlDreamer> but any 5.10 specific features have to wait until WebGUI 8
21:59 <+perlDreamer> no say, smart match, given/when, regexp improvements, etc
22:00 < kimd> I see. Thanks for your answer.
22:02 <+perlDreamer> it's a bummer, for sure.  which is why we should all work hard on getting WebGUI 8 out as soon as possible
22:21 < kimd> Just having my first git experience.
22:22 < kimd> Why did we switch from svn to git? I found that svn was alright.
22:22 -!- perlbot [simcop@erxz.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
22:22 < kimd> Now I have to learn the next versioning tool.
22:23 < kimd> Not that I want to complain...
22:23 < kimd> It's all about flexibility these days.
22:23 <+perlDreamer> that's one of the reasons we switched
22:24 <+perlDreamer> git is very flexible, and it's incredibly fast compared to svn
22:24 <+perlDreamer> there are some very nice tutorials for svn users who want to switch to git
22:28 < kimd> Well, since I have no choice... Learning keeps you young, doesn't it?
22:40 <+perlDreamer> Yeah, it does
22:41 <+perlDreamer> although sometimes it can make you prematurely old
22:45 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r669f803 / t/Definition/Asset.t : check for get, set, update in Definition/Asset.t - http://bit.ly/crtio9
22:46 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, somehow in Definition/Asset we're losing get, set and update from Definition::Role::Object
22:46 <+perlDreamer> I committed a test to check that
22:46 <+perlDreamer> and will soon be converting the Definition tests over to Test::Class for more robust testing up and down the chain
22:48 <@Haarg> http://gist.github.com/322094 does this help?
22:50 <+perlDreamer> no
22:51 <+perlDreamer> and I'm kind of glad it didn't, because that would mean no composite roles
22:52  * perlDreamer takes a lunch break
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23:07 < kimd> A question for the template experts:
23:08 < kimd> What happens if a hash value set to undef is passed to template processors.
23:08 < kimd> Will that cause problems are just result in an empty template var?
23:09 < kimd> I am asking because I have a template var previousFile that may be empty if there is not previous file.
23:09 < kimd> no
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23:29 < kimd> Ok, let's leave this question open for today.
23:29 < kimd> Good night everyone!
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--- Day changed Fri Mar 05 2010
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01:14 <+perlDreamer> yo, rizen
01:25 <@rizen> howdy
01:26 <@rizen> sorry for the delay, just having a chat with stevan
01:28 <+perlDreamer> no sweat
01:28 <+perlDreamer> I was almost ready to ship you a liver
01:29 <@rizen> ooh, me like liver. at least if it's from a child of no more than 12 years
01:29 <+perlDreamer> this one is 11, so a little old
01:29 <@rizen> still tender though
01:29 <+perlDreamer> what happens at 12?
01:29 <@rizen> they go sour
01:29 <@rizen> at that point just grind them up and make dog food
01:31 <+perlDreamer> well, the current liver owner is shaping up, so perhaps I'll have to order and the Frau some takeout Thai food
01:32 <@rizen> amazing, i was just thinking that myself
01:33 <+perlDreamer> lean a little closer to the screen, and I can tell you what you want, too
01:34 <+perlDreamer> no, closer still
01:34 <+perlDreamer> Sarah wants Pad Thai
01:34 <+perlDreamer> hm
01:35 <+perlDreamer> something interfering with the pickup
01:35 <@rizen> actually she doesn't
01:35 <@rizen> she's been getting other stuff lately
01:35 <@rizen> i think she must be sick
01:35 <+perlDreamer> definitely
01:35 <@rizen> the pad thai is sooooooo good
01:35 <+perlDreamer> Pad Khee Mao is better
01:35 <@rizen> next time i'm in oregon i'll make you prove it
01:36 <@rizen> gotta go
01:36 <+perlDreamer> You're on.
01:36 <@rizen> ttyl
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01:37 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf5f1839 / (t/run_asset.t t/tests/Test/AssetBase.pm): Begin converting t/Asset.t over to Test::Class - http://bit.ly/aZZ7a4
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02:08 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r006bda8 / t/tests/Test/AssetBase.pm : More Test::Class tests for AssetBase.pm - http://bit.ly/bykELB
02:08 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r053b5a8 / lib/WebGUI/Definition/Meta/Asset.pm : Rework get_tables to check each and every property. - http://bit.ly/dajC5c
02:09 <+perlDreamer> Haarg: even if I just try to apply Definition::Role::Object in Definition/Asset, it still doesn't provide get/set/update/etc
02:12 <+perlDreamer> they're not applying in Definition.pm, either
02:17 <+perlDreamer> at least it's consistent
02:23 <+perlDreamer> it was the d7b0d93a commit
02:23 <+perlDreamer> so now we have no warnings, but no roles, either
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03:40 <+patspam> how advanced is wG's static html exporting capabilities/
03:40 <+patspam> ?
03:41 <@preaction> pretty advanced, the entire US embassy websites use it 
03:42 <@preaction> what do you need?
03:42 <@preaction> there's even the Widget macro to get little parts of dynamic content inside all the static content
03:58 <+patspam> sorry phone rang
03:58 <+patspam> can it export a tree of page layouts and articles?
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04:05 <@preaction> of course
04:06  * patspam reads AssetExportHtml.pm
04:06 <+patspam> one day I should sit down and scan the source code from top to bottom, there's lots of stuff in here i never knew existed
04:15 <@preaction> heh, yeah, there's a whole lot in there that i forget about ;)
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18:06 <+perlDreamer> MrHairgrease, I thought you might be at the Dutch perl workshop today
18:07 <+MrHairgrease> I was planning on going
18:07 <+MrHairgrease> but I ended up staying in Delft
18:07 <+MrHairgrease> Better luck next year
18:07 <+MrHairgrease> and I _am_ going to the yapc
18:07 <+MrHairgrease> eu that is
18:10 <+perlDreamer> where is it this year?
18:11 <+MrHairgrease> Pisa!
18:14 <+perlDreamer> Do you drive, train or fly to get there?
18:15 <+MrHairgrease> If I attach my vacation I'll prolly go by car
18:15 <+MrHairgrease> otherwise I'll fly
18:15 <+MrHairgrease> it's about a two day drive I gues
18:17 <+perlDreamer> 13 hours, 9 minutes
18:18 <+MrHairgrease> too much for one day anyway
18:18 <+perlDreamer> gotta go and help Kathy, bbl
18:18 <+MrHairgrease> oki
18:19 <+MrHairgrease> bye
18:45 <+perlDreamer> she lost her phone at the train station
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19:14 <@Haarg> finally figuring out POE a bit better.  using it for a silly personal project.
19:21 <@frodwith> POE++
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20:19 <+perlDreamer> What do you all think of that post on the webgui.org forums, about the site redesign for the dating site?
20:19 <+perlDreamer> SPAM, or legitimate request for help?
20:25 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, what does the init_meta method do?
20:29 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3c790d9 / t/Definition.t : Add Role presence tests. - http://bit.ly/coUsoK
20:29 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * recd3158 / (lib/WebGUI/Definition.pm lib/WebGUI/Definition/Asset.pm): Applying class metaroles before the other roles seems to do the right thing. - http://bit.ly/bjIRXl
20:30 <@Haarg> it initializes the metaclass instance for the class
20:30 <+perlDreamer> that's the problem
20:31 <+perlDreamer> we can't apply roles yet
20:31 <+perlDreamer> there's no meatclass
20:32 <@Haarg> by the time our code gets called, there is a metaclass.  but altering it definitely could interfere with the roles.
20:32 <+perlDreamer> well, when I applied the metaclass roles first, it started working
20:32 <+perlDreamer> tests pass
20:33 <+perlDreamer> I'm going to add some role analysis code to the Definition tests
20:34 <+perlDreamer> next question has to do with JSON in the database.
20:34 <+perlDreamer> The subscribable asset does this by interfering with get and update
20:34 <+perlDreamer> I was thinking that perhaps a Trait would be better
20:36 <@Haarg> probably
20:36 <@Haarg> not sure the best way to do that though
20:39 <+perlDreamer> me either.
20:40 <+perlDreamer> we could use around around each property that stores the JSON
20:40 <+perlDreamer> but that seems like a hassle
21:32 <+perlDreamer> coercion and via look nice, but they're only one way
21:32 <+perlDreamer> you can put it in as a datastructure, but you get back JSON
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22:56 <@frodwith> Trait that arounds the accessor sounds like the way to go to me.
22:57 <@frodwith> why is it a hassle?
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23:16 <@Haarg> i probably need to do some extra work for that.  traits on properties don't work right now.
23:16 <@Haarg> shouldn't be too bad to fix though.
23:54 <+perlDreamer> as long as the trait puts it around the property, that's fine.
23:54 <+perlDreamer> if I have to do it one by one, that's not so fine
--- Day changed Sat Mar 06 2010
00:00 <+perlDreamer> I had a different idea while cooking dinner
00:00 <+perlDreamer> if properties had a trait called 'should_serialize', then the write method would query the property, and then it would know whether to call the standard accessor, or the serialized accessor
00:01 <+perlDreamer> that way, you can get to the raw data, and not have to jump through hoops with the write method needing to manually serialize the data
00:01 <+perlDreamer> I was thinking of Moose::Meta::Attribute::Native::ArrayRef::JSON
00:02 <+perlDreamer> and similarly for HashRef::JSON
00:02 <+perlDreamer> and then we have something we can give back to the community via CPAN
00:02 <+perlDreamer> any way, I need to go pick up my sons at school
00:02 <+perlDreamer> see you all later
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00:42 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rb5e03dd / lib/WebGUI/Asset/WikiPage.pm : Remove dead method with the same name as a property. - http://bit.ly/afusHD
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01:17 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r6f9b891 / t/tests/Test/AssetBase.pm : Convert more tests over to Test::Class - http://bit.ly/bFsCFd
01:17 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r029655d / asset_status.ods : Add a sheet to track Roles. - http://bit.ly/9KVKsz
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03:39 < Getty> before i do something bad, can i install it via CPAN? cause the webpage "recommends" to use that but i dont know if that includes cpan way of install
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05:09 <+perlDreamer> Getty, you cannot install WebGUI from CPAN.
05:10 <+perlDreamer> you can download a full VM, you can download the WRE (which is basically application level install with full software stack) or you do a "source install" where you download the WebGUI source, install the modules, configure apache, mysql, set up the filesystem and run it yourself.
05:11 < Getty> the middle version, please, where is the exit? ;) j/k
05:11 < Getty> ok so i got already a running environment
05:12 < Getty> then i should prefer the source install if i know what i do in general? ;)
05:13 < Getty> i wanted to install it via CPAN on a local::lib path for the webserver vhost, so that would be then source install of modules + local::lib with the same result, right?
05:13 < Getty> or is there anything special that blocks that plan?
05:16 <+perlDreamer> for the WebGUI modules, no
05:16 <+perlDreamer> but several of the support scripts expect to be close to the lib directory
05:16 <+perlDreamer> as in ../lib only
05:16 <+perlDreamer> if you know what you're doing in general, you can do a source install
05:16 <+perlDreamer> although one other reason to use the WRE is performance
05:17 <+perlDreamer> it sets up two different servers, one small one as reverse proxy and static file server, and one "heavy" one to handle mod_perl
05:17 < Getty> but it would collide with my personal install?
05:18 <+perlDreamer> you can set your environment to keep them separate, except for MySQL
05:18 <+perlDreamer> it depends on what you want to do with it
05:18 <+perlDreamer> if you want to tinker, a source install is best
05:18 < Getty> actually microsite, private, no hits
05:18 < Getty> i just want to use a perl CMS
05:18 <+perlDreamer> a source install is right up your alley then
05:18 <+perlDreamer> download WebGUI
05:18 < Getty> and start doing what i prayed now on the cebit for 1 week
05:18 <+perlDreamer> untar it in /data
05:19 <+perlDreamer> run /data/WebGUI/sbin/testEnvironment.pl to check for requirements and/or install them
05:20 <+perlDreamer> http://www.webgui.org/wiki/source-install
05:20 <+perlDreamer> that page has all the gory details
05:22 < Getty> cool
05:22 < Getty> a little bad that noone actually told me about WebGUI before the CeBIT
05:22 <+perlDreamer> Why?
05:23 < Getty> cause the "CMS" stuff was a theme from time to time and we didnt had any suggestion beside Bruccolage or how its written
05:23 < Getty> i was there representing perl
05:24 <+perlDreamer> our promotional efforts for WebGUI wax and wane
05:24 <+perlDreamer> two years ago they did the whole conference tour in the US
05:24 <+perlDreamer> and came to YAPC EU in portugal last summer
05:24 < Getty> oh cool, so that isnt that bad for you
05:24 <+perlDreamer> no, but more users is always better
05:24 < Getty> yeah but CeBIT is actually really big as you know probably
05:24 < Getty> actually we took lots of contacts with us of people and companies who wanna do more with perl
05:25 < Getty> and now i got WebGUI as something to show, actually with that installer process you said its really an awesome idea
05:26 < Getty> but i must dive into it to REALLY value it, cause i also do own CMS activities (which i didnt promoted on CeBIT ;) ) and do the CMS agency business since the stuff is there, i'm very critic
05:26 <+perlDreamer> well, feel free to come back with questions, comments and criticisms
05:26 < Getty> i stay here :-P
05:26  * Getty never leaves ;)
05:27 <+perlDreamer> well, feel free to say here and ask questions, too ;)
05:27 < Getty> hehe ;)
05:27 < Getty> its 4:30 here, at 8:30 i must getup for the "last breakfast" with all other perl dudes of cebit before we leave hannover
05:28 < Getty> and i didnt slept more then 4-5 hours the last 5 days
05:28 < Getty> i'm so wasted
05:28 <+perlDreamer> is that pretty common for a CeBIT?
05:28 < Getty> if you want to promote perl AT ALL COST, yes
05:28 < Getty> i did many contacts via drinking at the after show parties
05:28 < Getty> that was actually my speciality of the crew
05:29 < Getty> but that way i opened up a dialog to IBM, lets see whats come out there
05:29 < Getty> and russia and macedonien
05:29 <+perlDreamer> cool.  Someone was been adding to the Russian WebGUI translation recently, but it is still low in overall coverage
05:30 < Getty> on russia i got mainly contact to research and development of russia, dont know how much "CMS" they actually need
05:30 < Getty> we are also more there to open a dialog
05:30 < Getty> its about knowing what is missing for more perl on business
05:30 < Getty> btw: http://search.cpan.org/dist/Perl-Staff
05:36 <+perlDreamer> cool, open-source conference staffing
05:37 < Getty> i made the t-shirts and will make more for other events
05:42 < Getty> i like webgui, i mean the presentation is awesome
05:44 < Getty> i need sleep n8
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07:51 < elnino> so. I have an article asset, with a flv and a jpg attachemnt. I was hoping I could get the flv by using attachment.url and the image by using image.url, or do I have to use the attachment loop, and chech for isimage and assume that when false, it's the flv? Make sense?
08:41 <@preaction> heh, CeBIT sounds like the last WUC I was at
08:41  * preaction only missed 4 hours of presentations due to hangover
08:41 <@preaction> which reminds me i have to register for the next YAPC
08:42 <@preaction> elnino: use the loop, it's more reliable
08:42 < elnino> ok. thanks preaction.
08:42  * preaction wishes you could just put those attachments inside the article yourself
08:42 < elnino> I remember such conversation not to long ago.
08:43 <@preaction> yeah, it still hurts
08:43 < elnino> =)
08:43 <@preaction> it will hurt until it gets fixed
08:43 <@preaction> if i could nuke all of WebGUI 7 and 8 and rebuild it all from scratch...
08:43 <@preaction> oh wait, i'm already doing it... http://github.com/preaction/modern-webgui
08:44 < elnino> you are a very busy person.
08:47 <@preaction> not really, haven't worked on that in 3 months :'(
08:48 < elnino> perhaps that is true at github, but I know here you are.
08:48 <@preaction> well, yeah i'm working on other stuff
08:49 < elnino> I'm calling it quits. Too much fun for the weekend. Putting video site together using flowplayer. kinda cool.
08:49 <@preaction> heard good things about flowplayer, but yeah, it's sunday now, get some rest sheesh
08:49 < elnino> so is github the new sourceforge?
08:49 <@preaction> pretty much yeah
08:49 <@preaction> git is soooooo much nicer than svn
08:50 <@preaction> like ten thousand percent nicer
08:52 < elnino> hmm. I'll look at git later..  Good night!
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20:05 < Getty> so... finally home from cebit, now i can checkout webgui and check if i can make a webpage with blog in an hour ;)
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21:24 < doc777> Hello friends. We recently upgraded to 7.7.33-stable and all our log in boxes, most of the user profile boxes, and the create account boxes are at 100 pixels now.  They scroll off the side of the page.  This seems to be the case in admin settings as well.  Did I miss something? 
21:38 < Getty> LOL that is really purposed that if i do: perl testEnvironment.pl --help i get the source in my viewer? ;)
21:41 < Getty> ah no, i see, its a debian workaround for people who dont have perl-doc, so ok :) never came to that
22:23 < doc777> Anyone know why our username boxes all went to 100 px after our upgrade?  The text boxes scroll off the side the page :o)
22:24 < doc777> I upgraded to 7.8.14 to see if it would help but they are still the same looks like.
22:58 < Getty> damn it, the parser cant read my config
22:59 < doc777> lol, there is a setting in the Admin > setting >ui now for Text Box Size   and it was set to 100.  After an hour of digging through templates and macros I found it  :o)
23:01 < Getty> bad question: does it actually require 5.8? or does it also work with 5.10
23:03 < doc777> What are you trying to do? :o)
23:03 <@preaction> Getty: 5.10 is fine
23:04 < Getty> http://paste.debian.net/63039/
23:07 < Getty> i dont get it, what he has as problem, the json itself looks fine
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23:13 <@preaction> Getty: paste your config file
23:14 < Getty> yeah mom
23:14 <@preaction> trailing commas is usually the culprit
23:14 < Getty> http://paste.debian.net/63043/
23:14 < Getty> the last trailing comma?
23:14 < Getty> cause i put it in cause it was also on the page
23:15 <@preaction> that's your entire config file?
23:15 < Getty> i do a source install
23:15 < Getty> going after the help in the wiki
23:15 <@preaction> yes, but you have to start from WebGUI.conf.original
23:16 <@preaction> otherwise here you have no assets, no admin console items, no nothing really
23:16 < Getty> AH! i missed that step
23:16 < Getty> ok thta would explain it probably ;)
23:16 <@preaction> also, the entire thing is a hash, so it should be surrounded with { ... }
23:17 < Getty> true, but my brain is just half working, i just went after the doc
23:17 < Getty> and missed one step ;)
23:17 < Getty> classic
23:18 <@preaction> it happens. problem is that most of this stuff is easy to determine (or easy to ask for), so we should really have a script to create site configs (and generate apache or other configs from a wg site config)
23:20 < Getty> yeah its all a bit shacky, but you guys seem to concentrated on the features ;) cause it took hours to install all the modules ;)
23:21 < Getty> for example i was confused that this preload script really needs a fix of the path
23:22 <@preaction> yeah, that's my biggest pet peeve
23:22 < Getty> OH!
23:22 < Getty> now i got a problem
23:22 < Getty> jhehe
23:23 < Getty> i now have it working, and it directly startups the config (logical).. and i made that all on my live site hehe
23:23 < Getty> i mean i stopped it now
23:23 < Getty> aehm.,... mmhh.. must allow my ip only.. baeh stress....
23:23 < Getty> or wait, can i force that with the adminip?
23:23 < Getty> so that noone else get the admin?
23:23 < Getty> i mean that init stuff
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23:24 <@preaction> i think that's what that is for
23:24 < Getty> ok lets see
23:24 <@preaction> and when you change config, remember to restart apache
23:25 < Getty> bad to test hehe
23:25 < Getty> its stopped right now anyway
23:25 < Getty> spectre actually only uses spectre.conf right?
23:26 < Getty> so restarting of him is not often required? or what is the regular way to go for him?
23:26 < Getty> dont know what that daemon does
23:26 <@preaction> no, it reads the other configs to know where to go, but unless you change the sitename or spectreIp or spectreSubnets you don't need to restart spectre
23:26 <@preaction> spectre is the offline execution engine, like cronjobs but also things that take too long to do in realtime with the user waiting for a page response
23:27 < Getty> ah nice idea
23:28 < Getty> does it really use IKC? cause i saw that module on the list of required stuff
23:28 <@preaction> yes, in order to pull status requests from outside (using the same spectre.pl script you can get the status of spectre)
23:31 < Getty> it doesnt work with the admin subnet
23:32 < Getty> i tried it with lynx on the server and still so the init config :-/
23:32 <@preaction> oh, the admin bar doesn't work with lynx, it's javascript-only
23:32 <@preaction> admin mode requires javascript
23:32 <@preaction> however, a quick ssh tunnel could fix that up for you
23:33 <@preaction> that's usually what i do when i need to get around The Big Firewall to administer some stuff
23:35 < Getty> wait wait
23:35 < Getty> i'm still at the config
23:35 < Getty> first startup
23:36 < Getty> that i wanted to have blocked to a specific IP
23:36 < Getty> cause i do that all here on a live system (my private site, so who cares)
23:36 < Getty> but i got regulary hits
23:36 < Getty> dont want someone else to config my stuff ;)
23:36 < Getty> now i made allow/deny in the apache2
23:47 < Getty> wowowowowoowowowowoww
23:47 < Getty> that stuff is heavy
23:47 < Getty> awesome work
23:47 < Getty> i'm impressed
23:49 < Getty> right now i just got total overflow, now idea where to start really
23:49 < Getty> but ok it runs... ;)
23:52 < Getty> but the admin menu is totally confusing and actually now i got even an error about the display
23:55 <@preaction> https://www.plainblack.com/services/training/webgui-primer <- free webgui primer might help
23:55 <@preaction> but the error, pastebin that and i'll see what's up
23:58 < Getty> its just displaying error, the cascading failed, or it was just to slow loading, dont know, didnt happened so far
23:58 < Getty> but the menu is confusing, that always the left side "goes away" and you stand in the middle of nowhere
23:59 < Getty> actually i have totally no idea how i edit the menu so remove add new files there or delete the existing one
23:59 < Getty> ah that is no error
23:59 < Getty> if i watch the navigation emnu .. yeah ok.. i get it
--- Day changed Mon Mar 08 2010
00:00 < Getty> ey is there a "make anything empty" button? ;) lol
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10:36 < Getty> re good morning and all :) more activity now?
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18:13 < SDuensin> Greetings.
18:14 <+perlDreamer> Hey, SDuensin
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19:02 <+perlDreamer> preaction: what kind of evaluation did you do with HTML::Packer when used with HTML::Template?
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19:26 <+perlDreamer> bartjol: I did some remodeling work this weekend.
19:26 <+perlDreamer> I still hurt
19:27 <+perlDreamer> No pictures are available, either
19:27 <+bartjol> ah, 
19:27 <+bartjol> how did it hurt?
19:27 <+bartjol> on your eyes?
19:28 <+perlDreamer> no, crawling on rafters in the attic
19:29 <+perlDreamer> hands, knees, elbows
19:29 <+perlDreamer> neck, back, legs
19:31 <+bartjol> aah
19:32 <+perlDreamer> I needed to reroute some electricity to a new outlet
19:32 <+perlDreamer> for a new microwave
19:32 <+bartjol> in the big hole in the wall
19:32 <+perlDreamer> because we killed the old microwave by putting it on a heavily loaded circuit
19:32 <+perlDreamer> fortunately, no big holes
19:33 <+bartjol> I thought you made the hole, to fit the microwave in
19:33 <+perlDreamer> we took out part of a cabinet
19:33 <+perlDreamer> this weekend, during the install, I'll take some pictures
19:34 <+bartjol> nice
19:34 <+bartjol> I mainly stuggled with a driver today, but I won!
19:37 <+perlDreamer> driver?  Van, bus, bicycle or car?
19:38 <+bartjol> bluetooth computer driver
19:38 < dionak> are you remodeling your kitchen perlDreamer?
19:38 <+perlDreamer> we are adding a new microwave over the stove
19:38 <+bartjol> but I'm off, have fun
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19:44 < dionak> we're prepping to gut our entire kitchen at home. maybe starting april or may
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20:13 < dreamersgirl> it's quiet today.
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21:04 <+perlDreamer> dionak, we'd like to do that too
21:04 <+perlDreamer> something about rough finished plywood cabinetry from the '60s is just not that appealing anymore :)
21:06 < dionak> yea, we're feeling the same perlDreamer.
21:06 < dionak> must have been cool & hip at the time
21:07  * perlDreamer is thinking "cheap", "quick" and "easy"
21:07 <+perlDreamer> none of the cabinet or drawer faces have trim work. so the plywood has chipped
21:13 < dionak> we've already done the cheap, quick and easy. it's time to do a bigger overhaul so we can quit getting annoyed by not being able to walk through the kitchen when the fridge is open. ;)
21:13 < dionak> it's going to be an undertaking to say the least..
21:13 < dionak> quick question...
21:14 < dionak> could the upgrade of WebGUI be enhanced to check to see if tables exist before trying to create them?
21:14 < dionak> seems like that would make upgrading easier
21:15 <+perlDreamer> it would certainly help with repeating upgrades, or handling hand backported code
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21:16 <+perlDreamer> and it would be more of an enforcement check than anything
21:17 <+perlDreamer> since so many different authors contribute code
21:17 <+perlDreamer> we'd have to review the table insert code by hand
21:17 < dionak> you mean table create?
21:18 <+perlDreamer> yes
21:18 < dionak> true...
21:18 <+perlDreamer> are you still having upgrade hiccups?
21:18 < dionak> i'm thinking that before anything is done, a sub should execute to check that any table creations do not already exist
21:18 < dionak> yes
21:19 < dionak> damn thing is working now when it should be broken. ;)
21:19 <+perlDreamer> I hate it when that happens
21:19 < dionak> lol, yea
21:19 <+perlDreamer> like when I do electrical work at home, and it works the first time
21:19 <+perlDreamer> I don't know whether to be proud, or suspicious...
21:19 < dionak> exactly!
21:20 < dionak> or if it will come back to bite me later
21:20 <+perlDreamer> yeah
21:20 <+perlDreamer> Am I having deja vu, or didn't we talk about this last week or so?
21:20 <+perlDreamer> the solution was to drop the database before rerunning the upgrade
21:21 <+perlDreamer> since importing the backup code will not remove the new tables
21:21 < dionak> yea, we did. this is the first chance i've had to work on it. it's more of a data corruption issue with orphaned assetIds in the db
21:21 < dionak> i've been writing a script to find orphans so i can address them and either 1) find a home or 2) remove them
21:21 < dionak> .. by either
21:22 < dionak> e.g. - there's an entry in assetData but not asset for an ID
21:22 <+perlDreamer> seems like there are so many cases
21:22 <+perlDreamer> asset, but not assetData
21:22 <+perlDreamer> assetData, but not Asset
21:22 <+perlDreamer> ... not Wobject
21:22 < dionak> yes
21:22 <+perlDreamer> or not table specific
21:22 <+perlDreamer> or in those tables, but not asset;
21:23 <+perlDreamer> and the worst will be Photo, or Newsletter
21:23 < dionak> why's that?
21:23 <+perlDreamer> since they are Asset/File/GalleryFile/Photo (4 tables)
21:23 < dionak> ugh
21:23 <+perlDreamer> Asset/Wobect/Collaboration/Newsletter (also 4 tables)
21:24 < dionak> ok, now you're just pushing me away perlDreamer :/
21:24 <+perlDreamer> no, I don't mean to do that
21:24 < dionak> kidding
21:24 < dionak> it's a pita
21:24 < dionak> (not kidding)
21:24 <+perlDreamer> exactly
21:25 <+perlDreamer> one of the wg8 suggestions was to flatten the tables
21:25 <+perlDreamer> and make them non-, uh
21:25 <+perlDreamer> hm
21:25 <+perlDreamer> unnormalized
21:25 < dionak> what about innodb?
21:25 <+perlDreamer> innodb is slower in performance, I believe
21:25 <+perlDreamer> the goal of this was actually to speed it up
21:26 <+perlDreamer> by not spreading the data across several tables and thereby dropping the joins
21:26 <+perlDreamer> I want to say it was 8x faster
21:26 < dionak> how much slower is it to work with given the added complexity? or does it make it simplier?
21:27 <+perlDreamer> it's simpler
21:27 <+perlDreamer> writing only writes to 1 table
21:27 <+perlDreamer> and reading only reads from 1 table
21:27 <+perlDreamer> no joins
21:27 <+perlDreamer> searching is now much more difficult
21:27 < dionak> ls
21:27 < dionak> oops
21:28 < dionak> i definitely think that asset and assetData could collapse
21:29 < dionak> theoretically
21:31 <+perlDreamer> wouldn't it be weird to have versioned and unversioned data in the same table?
21:33 < dionak> hm, you're right
21:33 < dionak> i have a script now that mostly figures out orphaned data. going to test it on a staging server now
21:36  * dionak needs coffee
21:39 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rd0884af / (10 files in 3 dirs): Do not remove newlines from Templates (or Snippets) since HTML::Packer does not handle newlines with H::T syntax. Fixes bug #11458 - http://bit.ly/du0jQ9
21:39 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r1e4fb86 / (10 files in 3 dirs): Do not remove newlines from Templates (or Snippets) since HTML::Packer does not handle newlines with H::T syntax. Fixes bug #11458 - http://bit.ly/ayCW6v
21:41 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, it happened again, only backwards this time
21:42 <+perlDreamer> on the 7.7 upgrade, since there was no import node in the package none of the isPackage or isDefault properties were set
21:43 <+perlDreamer> now, since there is an import node, EVERY asset below import had isPackage turned off, and isDefault set to 1
21:45 <+perlDreamer> what we need is metadata out of the package
21:45 <+perlDreamer> a list of all assetIds that it touched
21:46 <+perlDreamer> and then we post process those alone
21:46 <+perlDreamer> so it no uses lineage at all
21:53 <+perlDreamer> we could also add more options to importAssetData, like "clearPackageFlag" and "setDefaultTemplate"
22:01 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, preaction, I'm leaning pretty heavily toward adding options. In lieu of any feedback, I'll decide when I come back from a run.
22:01 <@preaction> the options sounds fine to me
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--- Day changed Tue Mar 09 2010
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01:25 < CIA-58> webgui: Luke Robinson master * rc61e745 / (8 files in 4 dirs): An Ajax check on the username field at registration - http://bit.ly/9aF0WD
01:25 < CIA-58> webgui: Luke Robinson master * rc03bcc3 / (3 files in 3 dirs): 
01:25 < CIA-58> webgui: use the FormHelper instead of the Auth system for the Ajax check
01:25 < CIA-58> webgui: on Username - http://bit.ly/az9kKr
01:25 < CIA-58> webgui: Luke Robinson master * r240eb10 / www/extras/form/fieldCheck.js : call getWebguiProperty('extrasURL') - http://bit.ly/ckBI7A
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01:29 < CIA-58> webgui: Doug Bell master * rc8ad650 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : added changelog entry - http://bit.ly/9OFNuE
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02:32 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rcf43e5e / (6 files in 3 dirs): Reset the isDefault flag on core assets only, and provide a final way fix this crap once and for all. - http://bit.ly/9KUaFI
02:32 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r3113905 / (3 files): Prune duplicate code for post package work. - http://bit.ly/9GqmMQ
02:32 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r84704d2 / (4 files): Fix syntax errors, and remove duplicate code from the skeleton. - http://bit.ly/9Lebud
02:37 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rfe31cc9 / (5 files in 3 dirs): Reset the isDefault flag on core assets only, and provide a final way fix this crap once and for all. - http://bit.ly/dBPDML
02:37 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rdf31846 / (2 files): Prune duplicate code for post package work. - http://bit.ly/ahh2Zb
02:37 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r2053d3e / (3 files): Fix syntax errors, and remove duplicate code from the skeleton. - http://bit.ly/dbNxFm
02:37 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r35492ca / (3 files in 2 dirs): Remove old WebGUI 7.7 files - http://bit.ly/9yt3Vo
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03:09 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8f95101 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Allow the default Search root to be overridden by a form variable. Adds RFE #11460. - http://bit.ly/bPBryq
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16:25 < SDuensin> Greetings.
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16:30 <+bartjol> morning scott
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17:59 <+bartjol> cool, someone tried to sell us virtual servers
17:59 <+perlDreamer> bartjol, you _need_ virtual servers
18:00 <+perlDreamer> they are so much better than real servers
18:00 <+bartjol> well, we need them allright, otherwise we haven't got anything to sell
18:01 <+bartjol> oh, and a conscience question: which bathroom looks better, mine, or Tavis's?
18:02 <+perlDreamer> I've never been in Tavis's bathroom, so I couldn't say
18:02 <+perlDreamer> is he advertising it somewhere?
18:02 <+perlDreamer> you bathroom is much better than any of mine, however
18:02 <+bartjol> it was also on facebook
18:03 <+bartjol> any of yours....
18:03 <+bartjol> patser
18:03 <+perlDreamer> bartjol, I don't have a facebook account
18:03 <+bartjol> your wife has
18:03 <+bartjol> just hack into her account
18:04 <+perlDreamer> afaik, hacking (even into a wife's account) is illegal
18:04 < Getty> legal, illegal....
18:04 < Getty> "details"
18:04 <+bartjol> smetails
18:04 <+perlDreamer> legal, illegal
18:04 <+perlDreamer> good, evil
18:05 <+perlDreamer> matter, antimatter
18:05 <+perlDreamer> polar opposites
18:05 < Getty> jedi, sith
18:05 <+perlDreamer> now, dead vs partially dead is about details
18:05 < Getty> its not all black & white, be darth vader!
18:05 <+perlDreamer> or should I say "mostly dead"
18:05 < Getty> hey, i installed btw webgui now
18:05 <+bartjol> mostly harmless
18:05 < Getty> directly run into one big "security" problem
18:05 <+bartjol> ah
18:05 < Getty> about first time install
18:05 <+bartjol> which is?
18:06 < Getty> i'm a geek, so i used my own live site for the direct install, so.... must i talk further?
18:06 <+bartjol> mmm
18:06 < Getty> i had to make Allow/Deny stuff
18:06 < Getty> to prevent others from reaching my vhost
18:06 < Getty> the admin-network setting doesnt work for the install
18:06 <+bartjol> in modproxy you mean?
18:07 < Getty> with apache stuff, is that modproxy? dont know
18:07 <+bartjol> yes
18:07 < Getty> <Directory /> Deny....
18:07 < Getty> you know what i mean
18:07 <+bartjol> yeah
18:07 < Getty> i tried before with the admin-network setting in webgui
18:07 < Getty> and tested
18:07 < Getty> but this doesnt protect it
18:09 <+bartjol> is that a default apache directive?
18:13 < Getty> no no i mean in webgui.conf
18:13 < Getty> there i can setup an admin-network-range
18:13 < Getty> this is ignored for install, which is bad if you do it directly on a known site
18:15 <+bartjol> well, if you set such a thing, you want it to work
18:15 <+bartjol> I haven't used that option yet
18:15 <+perlDreamer> except it doens't cover that
18:16 <+perlDreamer> "admin network" is the network setting that allows/prevents people to go into Admin mode
18:16 <+perlDreamer> it does not cover setup/install
18:16 <+bartjol> ooh
18:16 <+perlDreamer> but that sounds like a good feature to add
18:16 <+perlDreamer> Getty, development for our next version is currently open, so if you want to file an RFE at webgui.org/rfe, it will be considered
18:17 <+perlDreamer> of course, RFEs filed with patches are much more likely to get added more quickly
18:17 <+bartjol> well, since that is always on a port 60834, we open that only in our firewall for ourselves, which might not be very save as default
18:17 <+perlDreamer> bartjol, this is WebGUI install, not wreconsole
18:17 <+bartjol> ah
18:18 <+bartjol> I thought that used the same port, learned something again
18:18 <+perlDreamer> no, all that stuff is served over port 80 via a content handler
18:18 <+bartjol> ah
18:19 <+bartjol> well, then it isn't a very save feature
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18:19 <+perlDreamer> maybe we should consider it a bug
18:20 <+perlDreamer> it seems low risk, since you have a limited window of opportunity
18:20 <+bartjol> but I always do a "mail to all" when I install webgui
18:20 <+bartjol> sorry
18:21 <+bartjol> time of day I suppose
18:22 < Getty> perlDreamer: i'm involved into many projects and go more and more into the "oh dudes i fill up your bugtracker all day so that you will hate me" dude, even tho i dont see much wrong on your side so far
18:22 < Getty> the other "big problem" i see and which you probably already know is your <censored> admin interface
18:23 < Getty> its totally confusing where to find what and if you edit something its different again, that is a bit chaotic
18:23 < Getty> i think this has historical reasons ;)
18:25 < Getty> but dudes, when i started this stuff now, i want to startup clean, or lets say, i want to setup step by step what i want, that premade site confuses me.... i worked with some commercial CMS with generally followed your concept of coordination for the data, so its all very clear i think when i get into the first steps
18:26 <+perlDreamer> Getty, I'm not sure what you mean by "when you edit something it's different again"
18:27 <+perlDreamer> and we never hate people who file bugs
18:27 <+perlDreamer> if more people filed bugs, WebGUI would be better
18:27 <+bartjol> perlDreamer loves to solve bugs, he eats them for breakfast
18:27 < Getty> yeah and i will fill bugs, but i think its a good choice, even tho i got my own concepts running, WebGUI should be something that gives a "second leg"
18:27 < Getty> hehehe
18:27 < Getty> yummie
18:27 <+perlDreamer> the only problem we've had in the past is what some people consider bugs are really enhancements
18:28 <+perlDreamer> and if so, we move them to the RFE board instead of the bug board
18:28 < Getty> oh i think i will make the definitions right at that point, doing that stuff long enough
18:28 < Getty> but so tell me... how i would actually get my site empty and can start defining "first page"? or probably i could say what i want in final cause i dont need much
18:29 < Getty> but i made so much contacts on the cebit and need definitly fast a good page best with a perl CMS so that i can also promote that i did it with WebGUI
18:29 < Getty> someone else just suggested me FosWIKI and i dont want to go with kindergarten stuff, i'm enterprise (even for my homepage) hehe
18:29 <+bartjol> in the settings you can define your homepage
18:29 <+perlDreamer> to clear the default content, log in as an admin
18:29 <+perlDreamer> turn on admin mode
18:29 <+perlDreamer> go to Assets
18:29 <+perlDreamer> go to the Root node
18:30 <+perlDreamer> select the home page
18:30 <+perlDreamer> and trash it
18:30 < Getty> sounds like a plan
18:30 <+perlDreamer> that will remove all the default content
18:30 <+bartjol> and empty the trash, that's looks nice for your lineage
18:30 < Getty> good :)
18:30 <+perlDreamer> and frees up the URLs, too
18:30 <+perlDreamer> good call bartjol
18:30 <+bartjol> Getty: you will get stuck with those articles on each site you add
18:31 < Getty> mh?
18:31 < Getty> dont get that you wanna say with this?
18:31 < Getty> oh
18:31 < Getty> yes 
18:31 <+bartjol> ah, that every time you add a site
18:31 < Getty> you mean its there on every startup
18:31 < Getty> yeah logical :)
18:31 <+bartjol> those articles will be there to be deleted
18:31 <+bartjol> indeed :)
18:32 < Getty> but i think i can bring on a WebGUI module which gives me the chance to say: hey i want my own startup definition, right?
18:32 <+bartjol> sure you can make that
18:32 < Getty> see, problem solved
18:32 < Getty> technology owns!
18:32 <+perlDreamer> you'd have to alter create.sql
18:32 <+perlDreamer> so it's a little more complex than that
18:32 <+bartjol> but after an upgrade the default file is overridden
18:32 < Getty> i would actually modify the install procedure that way
18:32 <+perlDreamer> it would be better to run a post-install script that does the dirty work for you
18:33 <+bartjol> well, I considered that part as logical for a geek :P
18:33 <+perlDreamer> removing the default content, and installing some other package
18:33 <+bartjol> that would be a lovely script
18:33 < Getty> well as professional i would consider as most luxury if i could define my own "install procedure way" which also automatically installs the DB tables without doing any create.sql insert by my own
18:34 < Getty> yeah i'm the one with the evil wishes
18:34 <+perlDreamer> no, other people have wished for that as well
18:34 < Getty> can we actually do this with a module?
18:34 <+perlDreamer> no
18:34 < Getty> or would that go to deep?
18:34 < Getty> so its a bug
18:34 < Getty> lol
18:34 <+perlDreamer> the default content is installed with create.sql
18:35 <+perlDreamer> along with the default users, groups, templates, css, settings, etc.
18:35  * bartjol is thinking utility script
18:35 < Getty> yeah but i dont want to put the create.sql myself
18:35 < Getty> i'm lazy
18:35 <+perlDreamer> that's what the WRE is for :)
18:35 < Getty> i want to give him database user/password and he does that for me
18:35 <+perlDreamer> addsite.pl
18:35 <+bartjol> he? JT?
18:35 < Getty> yeah but i'm also offering it on my own facilities ;)
18:36 < Getty> even tho i LOVE the idea of WRE
18:36 <+perlDreamer> that's the tradeoff you make
18:36 < Getty> its awesome
18:37 <+perlDreamer> but I'm sure the WRE utilities could be changed to work outside the WRE
18:38 <+bartjol> but goodday to you sirs
18:38 < Getty> ok i will go to the bank now and then get some red bull
18:38 <+perlDreamer> later, house-hacker
18:38 < Getty> then i will try that with cleaning up the content
18:38 < Getty> andstartup my site
18:38 <+bartjol> someone elses house today
18:38 -!- bartjol [~bartjol@kantoor.procolix.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
18:39 < Getty> perlDreamer: you stay here? ;)
18:39  * perlDreamer will be in and out all day long
18:39 <+perlDreamer> I go the gym, then work
18:39 <+perlDreamer> eat lunch, then work
18:39 <+perlDreamer> pick up the children from school, then work
18:39 <+perlDreamer> fix dinner, then work
18:39 <+perlDreamer> it's PWM for employment
18:40 < Getty> i'm fat, no gym
18:40 < Getty> i got a dude who cooks for me, eating at computer
18:40 < Getty> i dont have kids
18:40 < Getty> and i also work from home
18:40 < Getty> so.. actually
18:40 < Getty> why i stand up? oh yes toilet
18:40 <+perlDreamer> and to get red bull
18:40 < Getty> yes!
18:40 < Getty> but thats flying ;)
18:52 < Getty> so back on track
18:52 < Getty> ok i startup the WebGUI again on my site
18:52 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rf4f3f0c / (2 files in 2 dirs): Handle the edge case when a subscription group has been deleted, but the the Subscribable entry has not been cleaned up. Fixes bug #11456. - http://bit.ly/b9aiWr
18:53 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf55acec / (2 files in 2 dirs): Handle the edge case when a subscription group has been deleted, but the the Subscribable entry has not been cleaned up. Fixes bug #11456. - http://bit.ly/aOVFUI
18:53 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r58c25e3 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : Fix changelog formatting. - http://bit.ly/daFOmB
19:02 < Getty> now its suddenly german?!
19:02 < Getty> i dont get it, when i installed it, i choosed german, then it was german, then it was suddenly english everything and now its german again... mh
19:03 <+perlDreamer> Getty, language settings are user dependent
19:04 < Getty> i just used one user so far
19:04 < Getty> on the default install
19:04 < Getty> what is the root node? isnt it "getting started"?
19:04 < Getty> cause deleting that one wasnt any effect
19:04 <+perlDreamer> no, go into the Admin Console and select Assets
19:04 < Getty> yeah
19:04 < Getty> i am there
19:05 <+perlDreamer> On the top there's a crumb trail.  Choose Root
19:05 < Getty> AH!
19:05 < Getty> a bit small ok get it
19:05 < Getty> Home then delete ok
19:05 <+perlDreamer> then Admin Console->Trash
19:05 <+perlDreamer> then select and purge
19:05 < Getty> wait
19:05 < Getty> its still there
19:06 < Getty> yeah tried it again
19:06 < Getty> no effect
19:06 < Getty> clicked on "Home" then Delete
19:06 <+perlDreamer> check your log files
19:06 < Getty> and he does something
19:06 < Getty> you say that so easy mom
19:07 <+perlDreamer> sorry, standard user debug flow
19:07 < Getty> webgui.log doesnt throws an error
19:07 < Getty> i had to search where i have put the logfile ;) i did the install 2 days ago
19:07 <+perlDreamer> it's the log level, it's set too high
19:07 <+perlDreamer> the problem is that /home is set to be the default page for the site
19:08 <+perlDreamer> create some other page for now, in the Settings, choose the other page
19:08 <+perlDreamer> then it will let you delete the default content
19:08 < Getty> ok
19:08 <+perlDreamer> either that, or just delete all content below the home page
19:08 <+perlDreamer> takes more clicks
19:09 < Getty> ok i made a new page
19:09 < Getty> but it doesnt have the "+"
19:09 < Getty> i think that is what it needs, or?
19:09 < Getty> ah no that is just there is something under it, ok
19:10 < Getty> now i'M getting it
19:10 <+perlDreamer> right, + means the asset has children
19:10 <+perlDreamer> have you downloaded and read the WebGUI Starter guide?
19:11 < Getty> http://www.raudssus.de/ :D
19:11 < Getty> i want to ;)
19:12 <+perlDreamer> that gives me a 403 error
19:12 < Getty> oh yes wait
19:12 < Getty> reload ;)
19:15 <+perlDreamer> much better
19:16 <+perlDreamer> now, go to the marketplace page on webgui.org and download a good looking style to install
19:16  * perlDreamer goes to the gym for punishment
19:16 < Getty> have fun
19:18 < Getty> mh
19:18 < Getty> where to upload it now
19:26 < Getty> i always get error on extracting :-/
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20:17 <+perlDreamer> Getty, if the package is very old, it may not work on recent WebGUI's
20:18 <+perlDreamer> also, it would be good to examine the log files to see what the problem was
20:18 <+perlDreamer> a very common user problem is permissions on the upload directory
20:18 <+perlDreamer> the upload directory and all children need to be writable by the apache process owner
20:21 < Getty> i had it now with 2 themes
20:21 < Getty> actually the only 2 themes which i like really
20:21 < Getty> mh ok probably its just that
20:22 < Getty> let me check log
20:22 < Getty> yes it is that ;)
20:22 < Getty> AH! wait!
20:22 < Getty> he suggest wrong path
20:22 < Getty> ok got it
20:23 < Getty> damn it again
20:28 <+perlDreamer> a whole series from Damian about vim scripting: http://blogs.perl.org/users/ovid/2010/03/whats-the-mad-doctor-doing.html
20:28 < Getty> i dont get this step: Click on the "class icon" of the page layout asset that is your home page.  The Layout asset is very similar to a page and has an icon on the far left side of the edit toolbar that resembles a piece of paper.  If you hover over this icon, it will say "Page Layout".  This icon is called the "class icon"
20:28 < Getty> i'm at the page layout asset, and edited it but i dont see that piece of paper icon?
20:31 <+perlDreamer> It's a little obtuse
20:31 <+perlDreamer> The class icon is displayed with the other toolbar icons
20:31 <+perlDreamer> cut, copy, paste, delete, make shortcut, edit
20:31 <+perlDreamer> if you actually edit it, you won't get the class icon with the drop down menu
20:31 <+perlDreamer> that will be changed in WebGUI 8
20:37 <@preaction> did we fix the bug that puts "HASH(0xDEADBEEF)" : null, in the config files?
20:38 <@preaction> looks like it's in the macros part
20:38 <@preaction> there's also a "null" in the workflowActivities part
20:39 <+perlDreamer> we did fix that bug
20:39 <@preaction> you know, why the hell do we define which macros and workflow activities ARE in the config, when we should be defining the ones that AREN'T
20:39 <+perlDreamer> it's just historical
20:40 < Getty> i still cant see it, but i must reboot my PC now have to cleanup my mess of desk, i be back in 5 minutes, if you could have a screenshot which links to the icon it would be awesome LOL ;)
20:40 < Getty> so bbl
20:40 <+perlDreamer> if you want a "lean site", you'll exclude a lot
20:40 <+perlDreamer> it's just another aspect of the same problem
20:40 <@preaction> but most people don't want that, ever
20:40 <@preaction> the most likely configuration is "everything installed"
20:41 <+perlDreamer> I wouldn't assume that
20:41 <+perlDreamer> preaction, which site are you seeing the bad config data?
20:41 <@preaction> our config file has 715 lines in it
20:41 <@preaction> this is for PIRG
20:41 <@preaction> over SEVEN HUNDRED LINES in the config file
20:42 <+perlDreamer> that's because they have a bunch of CDN stuff in it
20:42 <@preaction> WebGUI.conf.original has over 1000 lines
20:42 <+perlDreamer> the macros HASH bug was fixed in 7.8.14
20:42 < ckotil> 662 /data/WebGUI/etc/globalnoc.iu.edu.conf
20:42 <+perlDreamer> that's with documentation
20:43 <@preaction> the point being if this was a perl module, i'd be ripping it to shreds right now
20:46 <@preaction> and to hell with debian's default editor of "nano"...
20:48 <+perlDreamer> The Underground style from the bazaar is very nice
20:48 <@preaction> don't thank me, thank the guy who designed it. i just put it into webgui
20:50 <+perlDreamer> that's another bummer bout the bazaar, no attribution of authorship
20:51 <+perlDreamer> at one point, wasn't there a "more by <username>" link?
21:00 < Getty> re
21:00 < Getty> btw are you guys actually interested bringing WebGUI to a (Free) Cloud Service?
21:01 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI is already being used in a Cloud Service
21:01 <+perlDreamer> people run it on EC2
21:02 < Getty> ah ok, the cloud service i talk about is making it very easy to manage anything, its really cool kodingen.com
21:03 < Getty> its at the startup, but they have "drag & drop" install of stuff (like wordpress, drupal and so on)
21:03 < Getty> i just imagined if there would be a drag&drop for WebGUI ;)
21:03 < Getty> i already made a link to the developers and they already offered a dedicated server where we can "setup" the required setup and they can analyze it for integration into the cloud
21:04 < Getty> even tho its not really a cloud service so far, more an open platform for web
21:07 <+perlDreamer> hey, if it lets people use WebGUI, that's great
21:09 < Getty> they wouldnt block it, the question is what is required
21:09 < Getty> i think a standard user cant get WebGUI running on this env for easy
21:10 < Getty> but we could tell them an easy way to make it one of the "one click installer" gadgets
21:10 < Getty> dont know, i'm not a webgui dude
21:10 < Getty> but they offered testing environments if we need
21:10 < Getty> wait must restart my pc.... again.....
21:10 <@preaction> WebGUI requires a shell and root access to install
21:10 <@preaction> but to run, just needs the prereqs
21:11 < Getty> yeah, lets talk about this in 2 minutes ;) 
21:19 <+perlDreamer> preaction, we need to do something about webguiupdate.pl
21:19 <+perlDreamer> it lets people nuke their sites by skipping the upgrade steps
21:19 < Getty> re
21:32 < Getty> so.. where is this icon now?
21:32 < Getty> i see the assets before me, so admin console => assets
21:33 <+perlDreamer> Getty, what is it you're trying to do?
21:33 <+perlDreamer> Apply the style template to the site?
21:33 < Getty> about using the page layout
21:33 < Getty> yes
21:33 < Getty> so i need to find that "class icon"
21:33 <+perlDreamer> okay, the class icon is right on the main page
21:33 <+perlDreamer> on the left
21:34 <+perlDreamer> next to the big red X icon
21:34 <+perlDreamer> you don't need to go into the Admin Console to do this, although you can if you wish
21:34 < Getty> i feel stupid, i dont know what you mean with main page
21:35 < Getty> AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH
21:35 < Getty> NOW i get it!
21:35 < Getty> yes yes ok
21:35 < Getty> no...
21:35 < Getty> i mean
21:35 < Getty> i see the icon now
21:35 < Getty> but when i click i just get a dropdown
21:36 < Getty> what function i must click now?
21:36 <+perlDreamer> Edit Branch
21:36 <+perlDreamer> which instructions are you following?
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21:36 < Getty> Aha!
21:36 < Getty> there it is
21:36 < Getty> i used the on the wiki about adding theme
21:36 < Getty> just need to reopen it now
21:36 < Getty> but now i get it
21:36 < Getty> its a bit confusing to find it
21:37 < Getty> but now i get the concept more
21:37 <+perlDreamer> you can access the same set of instructions from the Asset Manager
21:37 <+perlDreamer> in the Asset manager, there are two labeled links
21:37 < Getty> its on! :) http://www.raudssus.de/
21:37 <+perlDreamer> Edit, which allows you to edit the asset
21:37 < Getty> yeah i was in that menu before, but didnt knew i was right
21:37 <+perlDreamer> and More, which drops down the same menu as the class icon
21:37 < Getty> the way bringing people to the "class icon" is probably a bit hard
21:37 <+perlDreamer> it's faster to use the class icon
21:37 < Getty> yeah but if you are new you think more of the admin interface
21:37 < Getty> then really clicking into the page
21:38 < Getty> if you want to change the complete layout
21:38 < Getty> its not logical to click something on the "content" of the page to change the "complete page"
21:38 < Getty> or lets say, that confused me ;) i was on the page searching the icon, but i searched it "at the border of the page"
21:39 <+perlDreamer> maybe the wiki needs some images to clarify it
21:39 < Getty> or that, yes
21:39 < Getty> definitly
21:41 < Getty> ok......... now i see there is no blog content right out of the box
21:41 < Getty> but i suggest there is some plugin right? :;)
21:41 <+perlDreamer> to build a blog, you use the Collaboration System
21:41 < Getty> or should i use some other content module which has the same resulting effect like a blog?
21:41 < Getty> ok
21:41 -!- SDuensin [~Scott@mobile-166-137-137-049.mycingular.net] has joined #webgui
21:41 < Getty> ok so just for understanding, i just go to the homepage and add the collaboration system?
21:42 <+perlDreamer> yes
21:42 <+perlDreamer> then, configure it to use the Weblog templates
21:42 <+perlDreamer> it's not a beautiful blog, but it works
21:42 < Getty> mh
21:42 < Getty> i'm a bit confused
21:42 <+perlDreamer> what is "mh"?
21:42 < Getty> but ok i will first add it and then see
21:42 < Getty> mh is an empty word
21:43 < Getty> its like "mh" => i think about something, "mh!" => i got an idea, "mh?" => what you say?
21:43 <+perlDreamer> ah, like "hm" in english
21:43 < Getty> yes
21:43 < Getty> we german just do it just other around
21:44 <+perlDreamer> we can forgive you for that.  We owe you for landjaegerwurst
21:44 < Getty> heheheh
21:44 < Getty> and beer
21:45 < Getty> without our high quality beer you all would be dead already!
21:51 <+perlDreamer> I'm more of a fan of the high quality wurst and baked goods, but since beer is made with grain we can call it good.
21:51 < Getty> lol
21:51 < Getty> i dont drink beer actually
21:53 <+perlDreamer> you should, German bier is great!
21:53 <+perlDreamer> especially when it's chasing down some bierwurst, kartoffelsalat und brotchen
21:56 < Getty> i prefer vodka
21:56 < Getty> made much business with vodka
22:03 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, I think I'm going to move uiLevel from define to a property, since I want assets to be able to inherit the default uiLevel.
22:04 <+perlDreamer> actually, that's another good delimiter between the two.
22:04 <+perlDreamer> properties are inheritable, while defines are not
22:05 <+perlDreamer> in any case, I'm off for lunch
22:39 < Getty> can i get a more full fledge RTE?
22:41 <+perlDreamer> Getty, the RTE to use is configurable in the Collaboration System
22:51 < Getty> ok
22:51 < Getty> so... the intropage of the collaboration system "s***", that "table" with the entries
22:52 < Getty> can we make it more blogstyle? or just that he lists the entries?
22:52 < Getty> no idea, something to customize
22:53 <+perlDreamer> Getty, that would be another template :)
22:53 <+perlDreamer> have a look at perlDreamer.com/blog
22:53 < Getty> mh ok i dont wanna do anything for now
22:53 < Getty> i got my first blog entry
22:53 < Getty> cool
22:53 < Getty> gimme that!
22:53 < Getty> ;)
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22:58 <+perlDreamer> it's just a default template with my site's style added.
22:59 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra3614f5 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Move uiLevel from a define to a property so it can be inherited. - http://bit.ly/cp1QD2
23:01 < Getty> perlDreamer: and which default template? i mean i use the default collaboration system
23:01 < Getty> is yours not the same?
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23:01 <+perlDreamer> nope, it's a different template
23:01 <+perlDreamer> try the "weblog" template
23:02 <+perlDreamer> whoa!
23:02 <+perlDreamer> wgd works with WebGUI8
23:02 <+perlDreamer> nice work, Haarg
23:03 <+perlDreamer> well, to be specific, wgd ls root/import/collaboration worked fine
23:07 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra3aeae9 / (8 files in 2 dirs): Continue change from define uiLevel to has uiLevel.
23:08 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3b0e893 / (4 files in 3 dirs): Add T::C tests for File and Snippet.
23:16 < Getty> oh man i feel a bit fixed
23:16 < Getty> having own application framework and doing all stuff self normally, means always "taking back yourself" if you want to use another system
23:16 < Getty> actually i just do it to promote perl, i need to use something from perl ;)
23:17 <+perlDreamer> we all suffer from that
23:17 < Getty> let me guess
23:17 < Getty> cause i used this design now
23:17 < Getty> having a sidebar
23:17 < Getty> would be a more complex act
23:17 < Getty> right?
23:18 <+perlDreamer> it would be a different style template
23:18 <+perlDreamer> it depends on what content you want in the sidebar
23:18 <+perlDreamer> it it's a navigation (like used in Underground), it's fairly simple
23:19 <+perlDreamer> if it's more complex, like an RSS feed, twitter stream, etc.
23:19 <+perlDreamer> then it takes a little bit more work
23:19 < Getty> mh
23:19 < Getty> i dont know
23:19 < Getty> i dont know what i want at all somehow now
23:19 <+perlDreamer> if you want a different layout (two column, three column,), that's another template used by the Page Layout
23:19 < Getty> being forced to make a webpage makes sick ;) i dont have a target
23:20 <+perlDreamer> and no change to the Style at all
23:20 < Getty> ah ok
23:20 < Getty> so i can make it 2 col now?
23:20 <+perlDreamer> sure
23:20 <+perlDreamer> Edit the Page Layout
23:20 <+perlDreamer> Select the Display tab
23:20 < Getty> ok wait
23:20 < Getty> i think i dont do it
23:20 < Getty> and try to make a footer stuff... or more menu points
23:20 < Getty> dont know
23:20 < Getty> nah i got my blog that is for first something
23:20 < Getty> i still got a problem about your URLs...
23:21 < Getty> i got my first "SEO-cry"
23:21 < Getty> / and /root/home are the same
23:22 <+perlDreamer> why is some bot crawling though the root node?
23:22 < Getty> i mean, there is no redirect
23:22 < Getty> one should redirect to the other
23:22 < Getty> no matter which direction
23:22 < Getty> cause there shouldnt be 2 urls with the same content
23:22 <+perlDreamer> remember the default asset that we talked about earlier?
23:22 < Getty> yeah
23:23 < Getty> there i explicit didnt set an URL
23:23 <+perlDreamer> that's what causing that
23:23 < Getty> aha?
23:23 <+perlDreamer> I think not
23:23 <+perlDreamer> there's another function
23:23 <+perlDreamer> Not Found Page
23:24 <+perlDreamer> the url /root/home does not exist
23:24 <+perlDreamer> so WebGUI is redirecting you to the page it was told to in the Settings
23:24 < Getty> mh
23:24 < Getty> but the headline is linking to it
23:24 <+perlDreamer> which headline?
23:24 < Getty> http://www.raudssus.de/
23:24 < Getty> the headline links to /root/home
23:25 < Getty> and /root/home shows the same page again
23:25 <+perlDreamer> try this...
23:25 <+perlDreamer> Admin, Turn Admin on...
23:25 <+perlDreamer> Admin Console, Settings
23:25 <+perlDreamer> wait
23:25 <+perlDreamer> Admin, Turn Admin On
23:25 <+perlDreamer> Edit the main page
23:26 <+perlDreamer> change the URL to just home
23:26 <+perlDreamer> now, Admin Console->Settings
23:26 <+perlDreamer> Default Asset => home
23:26 <+perlDreamer> now /home and / will be the same asset, and no root
23:26 < Getty> in which tab is that?
23:27 <+perlDreamer> 2nd or 3rd?
23:27 <+perlDreamer> from the left
23:27 < Getty> ah got it
23:27 < Getty> Standard Homepage its translated
23:29 < Getty> but still the problem
23:29 < Getty> i think you dont get really what i mean
23:29 -!- vayde [~vayde@70-59-73-116.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:29 < Getty> i did lots of SEO stuff in my last companies, actually it was so deep that i was puking all day caring about the details
23:29 < Getty> one important detail is that one page is not allowed to have 2 URLs, that everything should be unique
23:30 < Getty> so right now i got 2 URLs (/ and /home) which gives the right content
23:30 < Getty> that "lowers" the value for google a little bit
23:30 <+perlDreamer> so if a page works as /index.html and /, that's bad too?
23:30 < Getty> yes
23:30 < Getty> correct
23:30 < Getty> you have to optimize that away
23:30 < Getty> (if you want to be "TOP" SEO)
23:30 <+perlDreamer> that's ridiculous
23:30 < Getty> dont tell me ;)
23:30 < Getty> i just tell what i was told
23:30 < Getty> for example
23:30 < Getty> you know ?page=1 ?
23:30 <+perlDreamer> yes
23:31 < Getty> ?page=2 ?page=3 ?page=4
23:31 < Getty> there is alos the same
23:31 < Getty> you got: /list and /list?page=1 which shows the same
23:31 < Getty> so you have to code your list to NOT give a link to ?page=1
23:31 < Getty> instead always to /list
23:31 < Getty> elsewhere => 2 urls same content
23:31 < Getty> an SEO optimizer will critic that
23:31 < Getty> so best would be if the internal stuff is really redirecting
23:32 < Getty> for example the "not found"  asset of course generates TONS of that
23:32 < Getty> so you MUST redirect to the not found page actually
23:32 < Getty> so technical i think its easy for WebGUI to optimize that in
23:32 < Getty> it just needs to redirect to the asset
23:32 < Getty> instead of loading it internal
23:32 <+perlDreamer> I think you'd be surprised...
23:33 <+perlDreamer> but if you really want that, the Requests for Enhancement board is over at webgui.org/rfe
23:34 < Getty> i actually dont care much, if i dont make a webgui "top seo" site so far, but i think i mention it for you guys cause its some stuff that an SEO company would tell the company that uses WebGUI and this makes bad reputation again :-/
23:34 < Getty> the people give companies 5000 EUR < or more to make a report that just is full of that shit
23:34 < Getty> and the so called "double content" mistake is always "on top"
23:35 < Getty> i will add it to the RFE so that its "listed
23:35 < Getty> "
23:35 < Getty> but i already see the 32746243278 comments who says "that is bullshit"
23:35 < Getty> if i wouldnt have been in that mess, i would comment the same ;)
23:35 <+perlDreamer> they won't do that
23:35 < Getty> hehe ok
23:35 <+perlDreamer> we have several people who sell WebGUI for SEO
23:36 <+perlDreamer> they'll probably vote for it
23:37 < Getty> wow a totally open registration? no approval link? no check? :)
23:38 <+perlDreamer> nope, we trust you
23:43 < Getty> http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/11462
23:43 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r87c00d4 / (8 files in 3 dirs): appending to an attribute must quote the + -
23:44 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rbc71165 / (6 files): Add T::C tests for Redirect, RichEdit,Shortcut,Sku, Template and Wobject. - http://bit.ly/9apyrS
23:49 < Getty> is it allowed to make negative comments about the webpage layout of webgui.org? ;)
23:51 <+perlDreamer> sure, as long as they're accompanied with patches :D
23:51 < Getty> hehehe
23:51 < Getty> i could give you a really really cool hint...
23:51 < Getty> there is a tool out there
23:51 < Getty> which... lets say....
23:52 < Getty> "kicks ass" in making layouts
23:52 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rffb7945 / (5 files in 3 dirs): Remove leftover definition sub stubs. - http://bit.ly/d1tKmJ
23:52 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rb60149d / (3 files in 2 dirs): Tests for Image, ZipArchive - http://bit.ly/bFPWyg
23:52 < Getty> of course its not the tool for very flexible design and the special ones, but it gives out minimum layouts which are a bit nicer then this one you got ;)
23:52 < Getty> its called Artisteer, you probably heard of
23:53 <+perlDreamer> I hadn't heard of it, but I'm very perl centric
23:53 < Getty> i integrated it somehow in my framework, so we can make artisteer templates, just copy the css/images and then define the "layout metastuff" in some config
23:53 < Getty> its just a tool, you use it gets html and done, actually its even not free or opensource
23:53 < Getty> but its just to good
23:55 < Getty> but just a fast suggestion, actually i thought that if you support some much web, someone would have sponsored a better layout :)
23:57 -!- SDuensin [~Scott@173-28-73-10.client.mchsi.com] has joined #webgui
23:59 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rdb60905 / (t/run_asset.t t/tests/Test/Asset/File/GalleryFile.pm): Add a test for GalleryFile - http://bit.ly/aJkUB2
--- Day changed Wed Mar 10 2010
00:01  * perlDreamer will be back in a bit
00:01 -!- perlDreamer [~colink@pool-98-108-135-77.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
00:04 <@preaction> Bad Idea of the day: We should lock certain template namespaces to only allow Template Toolkit templates, paving the way for WebGUI to do TT only
00:06 < Getty> dont do that
00:07 < Getty> just a big small whatever warning, dont force yourself to TT
00:08 <@preaction> why not?
00:08 <@preaction> H::T is a horrible template engine, H::T::E even moreso
00:08 < Getty> i just say that TT is not the end of the line
00:09 < Getty> actually at the CeBIT we had the TT theme
00:09 <@preaction> TT allows developers to give objects directly to template, forgoing the necessity for translation
00:09 < Getty> and i found 2 other perl dudes who also see the problem that TT is mostly a template language for developers not for the designers
00:09 <@preaction> i will agree there
00:09 < Getty> oh in other languages that is normal for template engines, so actually its just that one step TT does right which others does right all the time
00:10 < Getty> so you cant take this argument and say TT is the most awesome, there will be another one
00:10 <@preaction> well, the other "standard" perl template engine is H::T, which is complete crap
00:10 < Getty> right now i took one of those dudes and we want to make Template::Toolkit::Smarty, to make TT be parseable like Smarty
00:10 < Getty> (to bring over PHP coder and also gain advantage of the knowledge that many template developer already invested in the smarty concept)
00:10 < Getty> could be that this must be splitted up totally
00:11 < Getty> i agree that anything beside TT in the perl world is crap
00:11 < Getty> but i tell you that TT will not stay alone longtime
00:11 < Getty> it will not attract people, as i said, its made from developers for developers
00:11 < Getty> probably the only point the "stupid php coders" can do better, just cause they arent real developers
00:12 <@preaction> looking at smarty's syntax, i'm not a fan. it doesn't seem much better than TT's syntax
00:12 < Getty> there are slightly differences which just make it more easy for many people in that sector
00:12 < Getty> checkout "Dwoo"
00:13 < Getty> which is a next-step of smarty
00:13 <@preaction> {section ... loop=$theloopvar} <- really?
00:13 < Getty> LOL!
00:13 < Getty> section is deprecated
00:13 < Getty> its just historical there
00:13 < Getty> still they are stupid php coders ;)
00:13 < Getty> its not about the functions
00:13 <@preaction> uh... so then why is it in the "Crash Course"
00:13 < Getty> its about the syntax
00:14 < Getty> cause they are lazy coders, the crash course was made very ver early and noone made a new one i guess
00:14 < Getty> actually i dont have read the crash course at all
00:14 < Getty> and i also dont care, smarty developers are very closed
00:14 < Getty> the gag is, i can introduce smarty to a non-developer faster then TT (i actually had the chance to test this several times)
00:14 < Getty> one big problem is the missing $
00:15 < Getty> $var is something non-developers understand more then just put in var, especially if they do the same for a command, it just confuses them
00:15 < Getty> of course its "cool"
00:15 < Getty> but just for a developer who anyway switch just the "internal brain parser" for templates
00:15 <@preaction> okay, now i'm looking at Dwoo and it looks like TT with different characters
00:15 <@preaction> sigils would be nice in TT, yes
00:15 < Getty> yeah thats why we think it gets easy to make a TT with Smarty/Dwoo syntax
00:16 < Getty> we just need that $
00:16 < Getty> that is what the other dude is working on
00:16 < Getty> i personal HATE TT i must say
00:16 < Getty> i worked with smarty now several years, and TT just S*** for me...
00:16 < Getty> i see the power, i dont say its bad
00:16 <@preaction> provided you just add sigils, that'd be perfect
00:16 < Getty> its just bad for ME ;)
00:16 < Getty> you could help him, or probably help us bringing that in
00:16 <@preaction> well, i think a lot of times developers don't think about how their objects will be used in the template
00:17 < Getty> actually on PHP the people use objects to massive
00:17 < Getty> cause for example
00:17 < Getty> there is one big problem with objects usage in template
00:17 <@preaction> i can't replace H::T in webgui yet. it's an 8+1 thing, not an 8 thing
00:17 < Getty> one very very big
00:17 < Getty> template parsing cant have proper error handling
00:17 <@preaction> well, obviously one can't have a template cause a side-effect, ever. never direct db access
00:17 < Getty> so if your object triggers a DB call and the DB call fails it would be a very "fucked up" moment inside the template
00:17 <@preaction> uh... why not? you shouldn't be able to do anything to CAUSE an error, that's the thing
00:18 < Getty> yeah
00:18 < Getty> but lets think in a bigger scale
00:18 < Getty> you got 100 developers
00:18 <@preaction> you should never be able to write to the DB, and reading should be through existing methods
00:18 < Getty> and now you change a common function of an object
00:18 < Getty> to use the DB
00:18 < Getty> another coder might not know
00:18 < Getty> and use that function of the object in template
00:18 <@preaction> there's the wrong thing right there. you should probably be using an ORM
00:18 < Getty> wait wait
00:18 < Getty> forget ORM forget anything
00:19 < Getty> replace DB with "otherServiceThatCouldCauseError"
00:19 < Getty> its a general thing
00:19 < Getty> the Object can do whatever the object wants todo
00:19 < Getty> if you hang it into the template
00:19 < Getty> you can never CONTROL that
00:19 <@preaction> i understand, i do. laziness causes deferred errors
00:19 < Getty> cause its job of the object
00:19 < Getty> what would be cool
00:19 < Getty> and perfect
00:19 < Getty> is 2 objects
00:19 < Getty> like you got one and if the object goes to template it gets converted
00:19 < Getty> OR
00:19 < Getty> you make a "switch" inside the object concept
00:19 < Getty> i thought about both once
00:19 < Getty> but both are a bit "crazy"
00:20 < Getty> but it would be important to define a "rule" for that
00:20 < Getty> so that this never can happen
00:20 < Getty> "out of concept"
00:20 < Getty> (beside someone breaks the concept)
00:20 < Getty> if you just say "use objects in template" you cant prevent that problem
00:20 < Getty> there must be a bit more of a ruleset for that
00:20 < Getty> so that both sides (people who uses object just before the template and the people who uses it in template) never run into that error
00:20 <@preaction> i've thought the same, most likely i'll have the Model objects have a method to tell the template which bits are available, which are not, etc...
00:20 < Getty> one way
00:21 < Getty> which is most easy
00:21 < Getty> would be ->TemplateFunction()
00:21 < Getty> so if you call: $obj->function() in template
00:21 < Getty> it calls: $obj->template_function()
00:21 < Getty> if its not there it calls ->function()
00:21 < Getty> so you can "block" functions out
00:21 < Getty> which would cause active action
00:21 < Getty> or other around
00:21 < Getty> you can deny that he search for ->function()
00:21 < Getty> and you need to define what is exported
00:21 < Getty> that was my smallest solution
00:23 < Getty> so be very very careful about what you "propagate"
00:23 < Getty> if you once start to push massivly on the object into template train
00:24 < Getty> you cant stop it
00:24 < Getty> it is like giving people PHP
00:24 < Getty> more and more code goes into the template (or is called at template level)
00:24 <@preaction> except for, as mentioned, templates will never be able to modify anything. a template on one page request cannot affect any other page request
00:24 <@preaction> that's the rule
00:25 < Getty> if you "just have object" inside the template
00:25 < Getty> you cant prevent it
00:25 <@preaction> getters, not setters
00:25 < Getty> you cant prevent it
00:25 < Getty> (sadly)
00:25 <@preaction> it's a translated object, but translated automatically
00:25 < Getty> yeah but then you can just call ->toArray() on all objects
00:25 < Getty> that is what i do inside my framework, i dont assign objects (only "Text" objects)
00:25 -!- dionak [~dionak@97.66.185.250] has quit [Quit: dionak]
00:26 <@preaction> so yes, there is a translation to set up, a TT context or what-have-you, but the idea is that to the Developer, it's done automatically, and to the Designer, it just works
00:26 < Getty> yes of course, but then its not more or less then arrays in the template
00:27 < Getty> even tho, if you "think perl" its just a blessed hash ;) and this is an object so.. yes ok
00:27 < Getty> if i think other around its more logical
00:27 < Getty> it just needs a special way of objects
00:27 < Getty> like XX::XX goes to XX::XX::Template
00:27 < Getty> so that you can add custom function to the template object
00:27 < Getty> if you dont have ::Template, then its just a hash
00:28 < Getty> this would be something very acceptable in my eyes, and very powerful
00:28 < Getty> if that was something you thought about
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00:39 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ
00:58 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4beab18 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Folder.pm : Fix uiLevel in Folder. -
00:58 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rffe4e7f / (13 files in 4 dirs): fix uiLevel tests, and loading multiple sessions. -
01:12 <@preaction> perlDreamer: you were gone: any opinion on making certain template namespaces TT-only
01:12 <+perlDreamer> why?
01:12 <+perlDreamer> in 8, or 7?
01:12 <@preaction> so we can do things in the templates that only TT allows
01:12 <@preaction> in 8, for the Admin Console template
01:13 <+perlDreamer> I had thought that the TT conversion was dropped for 8?
01:13 <@preaction> it is
01:13 <@preaction> that's why i want this, so I can make a new template that is TT only and use TT features
01:14 <@preaction> and we can slowly move our templates to TT-only, and then finally remove the other engines
01:14 <+perlDreamer> that sounds more painful than doing it before the release
01:14 <@preaction> there are two "floating features" for the 8 cycle. TT and Auth
01:15 <+perlDreamer> brb
01:15 <@preaction> what about it sounds painful? i need dissenting opinions
01:16 <@preaction> it is a little bit of work up-front, but it enables us to start making our new apps and templates TT-based, and then shove everything old into TT-land
01:18 <+perlDreamer> so the plan would be to have new namespaces, that only TT templates could be placed into
01:18 <@preaction> correct
01:19 <+perlDreamer> and on every site, we're going to enable the TT plugin via templateParsers
01:19 <@preaction> correct, TT would now be absolutely required to run WebGUI
01:20 <@preaction> considering 8 as a transition period
01:20 <@preaction> which is really what it is, and always has been
01:20 <+perlDreamer> if I was a user, and you told me I had to learn two template systems for 2 years, I'd be frustrated
01:20 <@preaction> just like 6 was, only hopefully not as chaotic
01:20 <@preaction> yeah, that would be a down side
01:21  * perlDreamer opines for all or none
01:22 <@preaction> so is that the problem? our default templates are H::T and the cargo-culting is keeping us locked in?
01:22 <+perlDreamer> no, doing a two-year transition on something difficult like a templating language
01:23 <@preaction> so do it quickly like pulling off a band-aid
01:23 <+perlDreamer> right, all, or none
01:25 <+perlDreamer> there's a fairly good H::T translator out on the net, already
01:25 <+perlDreamer> the missing piece is the variable translation
01:26 <+perlDreamer> but I'm confident that since we know the namespace, and the user of the namespace that it can all be fixed, automatically
01:26 <@frodwith> i thought the difficulty is that we have a huge legacy codebase of H::T templates that we don't want to convert
01:27 <+perlDreamer> any custom template, yes
01:27 <@preaction> we Do want, we don't have time for right now
01:27 <+perlDreamer> right
01:27 <@preaction> well, yes, custom templates as well
01:27 <+perlDreamer> the core templates are easy
01:27 <@frodwith> oh I see the difficulty
01:28 <@frodwith> we'd have to at the very least provide an automated converter to people
01:28 <@preaction> it's either this, or during 8.1, 8.2, 8.5 we make all the default templates into TT templates and then say "yeah, fix your templates cuz 9 will make TT only"
01:28 <+perlDreamer> if we do that, I think we'll lose users by the droves
01:28 <@preaction> i want to give them TT template examples or some INCENTIVE to migrate before we drop the hammer
01:28 <+perlDreamer> the TT conversion alone is going to be difficult, but forcing them to use both at the same time?
01:28 <+perlDreamer> it'll drive them nutso
01:30 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4fa1e00 / (10 files in 2 dirs): Add Wobject tests. -
01:31 <@preaction> well, for example we had the Shop migration in 7
01:31 <@preaction> and we're planning on the same for Auth in 8
01:32 <+perlDreamer> but that's all in 1 shot
01:32 <+perlDreamer> not staged in pieces
01:32 <+perlDreamer> we didn't part of Shop
01:32 <+perlDreamer> then another part
01:32 <+perlDreamer> and then a 3rd part
01:32 <+perlDreamer> imo, people think about the templates as 1 chunk, not broken out by namespace
01:32 <@preaction> right, but there are 100x more custom templates than there are custom shop or auth modules
01:32 <+perlDreamer> sure
01:33 <+perlDreamer> undoubtedly
01:34 <+perlDreamer> maybe it could be done in 2 chunks
01:34 <+perlDreamer> admin console templates
01:34 <+perlDreamer> and asset templates
01:34 <+perlDreamer> but I don't think it can be done namespace by namespace
01:34 <@preaction> right, but you're also saying that we shouldn't make the default set TT and still allow H::T
01:34 <@preaction> in one shot
01:35 <@preaction> this isn't something we got to figure out now, i just wanted to get to use some of the TT features. nobody changes the AC template, mainly because it's easy to break
01:35 <@frodwith> it doesn't really matter what the default is, does it?
01:35 <+perlDreamer> If I came across that way, I apologize.  What I meant to object to was a long transition period between the 2.  I think it should be one point release.
01:35 <@frodwith> point is as long as we support H::T, our TT implentation must be crippled
01:36 <@preaction> but you still feel that it could be an 8.x release
01:36 <@preaction> yes, i'd be bypassing the WG::A::T::TemplateToolkit
01:36 <+perlDreamer> sure, like 8.0.5, or 8.0.6, but not more than one point
01:36 <+perlDreamer> the TT implementation will always be crippled, until we decide which path we're going to take
01:37 <@preaction> well, it'd probably have to be a minor release, not a bugfix point
01:37 <+perlDreamer> do we put logic in the template, or not?
01:37 <@preaction> and Auth is still on the table for a minor release of its own
01:37 <@preaction> "logic" is a misnomer, there's always logic in the template
01:37 <@preaction> it's the policy of "no side effects"
01:37 <@preaction> but even that... we allow Macros to have side effects :p
01:37 <@frodwith> well, TT templates can happily munge data
01:38 <@frodwith> H::T can't do much in that area.
01:38 <@frodwith> so you have to mangle your template variables to make it happy
01:38 <@preaction> and munging is fine, good even. anything in the template should not affect any other page request ever
01:38 <@frodwith> if we threw out H::T support, we could stop mangling our template vars.
01:40 <+perlDreamer> how are the template variables "mangled"?
01:42 <@preaction> instead of having to make all the year, month, day, monthDay, dayOfWeek, etc... we could just give a Date object (or whatevz)
01:42 <@preaction> we also have to translate from arrays into arrays of hashrefs, because that's all H::T can do
01:42 <@frodwith> [ { key => 'foo', val => 'bar'}, { key => 'baz', val => 'qux' } ] instead of { 'foo' => 'bar', 'baz', 'qux' }
01:42 <@frodwith> comes to mind
01:42 <@preaction> it can't do hashes, or just normal arrays
01:43 <@preaction> there's also more laziness we can do, instead of generating everything even if nobody ever uses it
01:43 <@frodwith> not to mention the horrific things you have to do in H::T in that situation if you want to access something in there by its key
01:43 <+perlDreamer> how many users do we have doing that?
01:43 <@preaction> ah yes, the "field.noloop.<fieldname>"
01:43 <@preaction> the DataForm does it everywhere
01:44 <@preaction> Thingy also comes to mind
01:44 <@frodwith> before I talked hDP into switching to TT for all their stuff, it was all over their stuff
01:44 <@preaction> ooh, didn't know about that one
01:45 <@frodwith> I mean, it's not like it takes too much time to compute that stuff, but it makes the code more complicated than it has to be.
01:46 <+perlDreamer> and moves that code into the templates
01:46 <+perlDreamer> where users have to deal with it
01:46 <@frodwith> in what way?
01:46 <+perlDreamer> I don't think that's a good solution
01:46 <@preaction> no, the code is still in the module, it just only gets evaluated when the template wants it
01:47 <@preaction> but in any case: I will not be adding a namespace-locking to allow me to get around our current horrible template practices
01:47 <@frodwith> the only reason we create the noloop crap and the arrays of hashes stuff is to get around H::T being unable to represent them.
01:47 <@frodwith> you wouldn't have to include the logic in the templates, you'd just use the hashes directly
01:48 <@frodwith> (or the arrays, or what-have-you)
01:48 <+perlDreamer> if that's the extent of it, just variable access, that doesn't sound that bad
01:48 <@preaction> http://gist.github.com/327301 <- here's an example based on WebGUIx::Form and editing assets
01:49 <@frodwith> well, TT buys us some other stuff (being able to pass in coderefs or locked down blessed objects, which is very handy)
01:49 <@preaction> forms <- all the forms. forms.edit_asset <- the asset edit form
01:49 <@frodwith> none of which we can use while we support H::T because of lowest-common-denominator.
01:51 <@frodwith> here's a stupid idea:  we could provide a set of backcompat variables for the core classes that we'd like to change, as mixins or roles or something, and tell everyone to change them because those are going to go out of date in X point releases
01:51 <@frodwith> and then eventually just drop them
01:52 <@frodwith> or stop distributing them anyways
01:52 <+perlDreamer> if time is important, I don't think we should spend it refactoring the code into addons that we're just going to drop.
01:52 <+perlDreamer> we should spend that time doing translation
01:53 <@preaction> yeah, if we're really gonna shake up the core of WebGUI in 8+1, we may not even have a translation path at all
01:53 <@frodwith> i guess no one is forced to upgrade until they can fix their templates
01:54 <+perlDreamer> we've always helped people with that in the past
01:55 <+perlDreamer> would you want to hand edit 100's of templates?
01:55 <+perlDreamer> or even dozens?
01:55 <@frodwith> no, ugh.
01:55 <@preaction> and we'll help them in the future, but depending on how drastic the internal changes it may be difficult
01:56 <@frodwith> well.  what about this:  mechanically translate everything to TT without changing any of the variables in one release
01:56 <+perlDreamer> that sounds good
01:56 <@frodwith> and drop support for H::T.  that gets us all using TT at least.
01:56 <+perlDreamer> we can always make individual changes in other releases
01:56 <@frodwith> yes.
01:56 <+perlDreamer> and do it one at a time.  DataForm, Thingy, Profile, etc
01:56 <+perlDreamer> just one at a time, and all in the same system
01:56 <@frodwith> *nod*
01:57 <+perlDreamer> but that's back to what preaction said that we don't have the time to do
01:57 <@frodwith> mechanical translation from H::T to TT is automatable
01:58 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rfe5085f / (3 files in 2 dirs): Tests for Gallery and HttpProxy - http://bit.ly/9Gsf8s
01:58 <@frodwith> and we could provide a service for people to do their custom templates with, as well.
01:58 <+perlDreamer> when you throw in the variable translation (taking out the dots) it becomes more difficult
01:58 <@preaction> well, we can have 8.1 do the TT conversion, 8.2 do CS, Thingy, DataForm, 8.3 do Layout, Article, etc..., 8.4 do ..., 8.5 ... etc...
01:58 <@frodwith> I have a script that managed it for all of HDP's templates that works remarkably well
01:58 <@frodwith> with just regexes
01:58 <+perlDreamer> then it sounds like we're done :)
01:59 <@frodwith> I'm sure there's cases where it breaks, but generally speaking
01:59 <+perlDreamer> wait a sec
01:59 <@preaction> but that still leaves me at using H::T for the new AC templates
01:59 <+perlDreamer> we've only been talking about two of the axes
01:59 <+perlDreamer> we also need to handle H::T::Expr
01:59 <@frodwith> none of the core templates rely on that little bastard, do they?
02:00 <+perlDreamer> no, but it's a core plugin that we've encouraged people to use in the past
02:00 <@preaction> no, the AC template is one of those "Hyre Be Dragyns" one
02:00 <@preaction> ohh, hte
02:00 <@frodwith> ah, so lots of people use it, meaning we'd want to provide a mechanical translation for that as well
02:00 <+perlDreamer> that was the original goal, complete mechanical translation of H::T{,::E} to T::T with variable name changes
02:01 <@frodwith> that doesn't sound too technically difficult, you could get it perfect if you wrote a real parser
02:01 <@frodwith> variable renaming is just dots to underscores, right?
02:01 <+perlDreamer> preaction: I think you could design a new AC template using TT, but it would have to use the existing variable set, or be prepared to upgrade custom templates (SwiftySite, etc.)
02:02 <+perlDreamer> frodwith, I think so
02:02 <+perlDreamer> i was going to use the list of template variables in the Help/ to figure out what needed to be translated, for efficiency
02:02 <@preaction> the new AC template is not compatible with the old, at all
02:02 <@frodwith> that's where you were going with namespace locking, eh preaction?
02:02 <@preaction> yes
02:03 <@frodwith> Can't use H::T for AC templates
02:03 <@preaction> exactly
02:03 <+perlDreamer> we've done things like that in the past, haven't we?
02:03  * perlDreamer looks in the gotchas
02:03 <@frodwith> well, if first release of 8 was TT only, here's a translator for your old templates
02:04 <@frodwith> you could do AC temnplates in whatever style you pleased
02:04 <+perlDreamer> check out the note in 7.7.
02:04 <+perlDreamer> 7.7.5
02:04 <@frodwith> since new AC isn't backwards compatible with the old one at all
02:05 <+perlDreamer> in 7.6.4, we deleted all custom profile templates in favor of the new Account system
02:05 <+perlDreamer> in 7.6.3 we reworked the SC, and migrated templates
02:06 <+perlDreamer> 7.5.0 changed the Event templates and didn't translate
02:07 <@frodwith> and there's expectation for some breakage in a new major rev
02:07 <@frodwith> even outside of the history
02:07 <+perlDreamer> yeah, I think you can nuke the old AC templates
02:07 <+perlDreamer> just be sure to update the template variable help
02:08 <+perlDreamer> frodwith, re breakage, I submit the WebGUI 6.x series
02:08  * preaction vomits uncontrollably at the mention of 6.x
02:08  * frodwith hasn't been around that long, thank God.
02:08 <+perlDreamer> where we lost a large fraction of developers
02:08 <+perlDreamer> and I don't know how many customers
02:08 <@preaction> neither was I, but i've dealt with the fallout
02:09 <+perlDreamer> and the difficulty in upgrading 5.x to 7.x sites
02:09 <@frodwith> well there's -some- breakage and there's breaking everything gratuitously
02:09 <+perlDreamer> totally
02:09 <@preaction> well, we're also stating outright exactly what is going to break and how
02:09 <+perlDreamer> maybe all of my thinking isn't as generous as I'd like to believe
02:10 <+perlDreamer> just not wanting to have to get stuck doing it myself
02:10 <@frodwith> do we have a lot of folks customizing the AC extensively?
02:10 <@frodwith> he asked curiously?
02:10 <@preaction> no, they shouldn't ever. it's not really possible without breaking things
02:10 <@preaction> the new one will be less fickle than that
02:11 <+perlDreamer> I wouldn't doubt that AMH does
02:11 <@frodwith> who?
02:11 <@preaction> but that's because the template will be loaded once, then everything will happen inside of it
02:11 <+perlDreamer> AlphaMegaHosting
02:11 <+perlDreamer> the SwiftySite folks
02:11 <@frodwith> oh
02:11 <@preaction> they did the SwitfySite
02:11 <@preaction> eah
02:11  * preaction is slow
02:11 <+perlDreamer> preaction: why not break out the partner's list and ask?
02:11 <@frodwith> yes, probably.  but they're also really smart.
02:11 <+perlDreamer> muy
02:11 <@preaction> no, it's not an "ask" thing. it's happening. no matter how i have to do it the AC is being rebuilt
02:12 <@preaction> they've all known since last year
02:12 <@preaction> there were the specs released and everything
02:12 <@frodwith> oh, preaction.  So young, so naive.
02:12 <+perlDreamer> true, but at that point they also thought we were doing a full automated translation
02:12 <@frodwith> "If I warn them a year ahead of time, they can't possibly complain!"
02:12 <@preaction> uh... to what?
02:12 <+perlDreamer> H::T{,::E} to T::T
02:13 <@preaction> frodwith: not that, but there's no "asking". they were told, i don't ask anymore
02:13 <@preaction> ah, well, that... is just unfortunate
02:13 <@preaction> complaints can be directed to the nearest brick wall, which will be more responsive than I
02:13 <+perlDreamer> maybe we need to give the community at large an update in changes to plans?
02:13 <+perlDreamer> to remind and reset expectations?
02:13 <@frodwith> that's probably the least customized set of templates, I'd imagine
02:13 <@preaction> perhaps a "State of Eight"?
02:14 <+perlDreamer> sure
02:14 <+perlDreamer> also, isn't it WUC announcement time?
02:14 <@frodwith> but then, I haven't worked with most of our users.
02:14  * perlDreamer hits the showers, I'll backlog later
02:14 <@preaction> wait, i think one of our customers changed the blue in the AC to the older blue because people didn't like the new, darker blue
02:15 <@frodwith> that's not even a template change, is it?
02:15 <@frodwith> just css?
02:21 <@preaction> right, but the only way to get to it is the template
02:21 <@preaction> yay!
02:42 <+perlDreamer> just wait til TWG gets their hands on it
02:43 <+perlDreamer> they'll fix it
02:47 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8806883 / docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.8.13-7.9.0.pl : Fix a synax error in the upgrade file. - http://bit.ly/9s2ArF
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03:01 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, I could use some help with uft8 issues in 7.9
03:01 <+perlDreamer> going to see if I can duplicate it with the WRE
03:01 <+perlDreamer> but on Ubuntu, we added a new test failure this week
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04:46 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8e253e5 / t/Content/SiteIndex.t : Remove unused diagnostics. - http://bit.ly/bzWKIF
04:48 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r4df0c51 / t/Content/Setup.t : Finish clean-up testing. - http://bit.ly/caXmDg
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05:08 <+perlDreamer> I think it's funny that the Apache request object has an assbackwards method
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05:22 <+perlDreamer> SynQ_: do you have your new car?
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06:19 < elnino> since when was there a separate login template? - is there a way for it just to defaul to the site's template?
06:22 < elnino> oh. they really messed this up. I see..
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07:01 <+perlDreamer> unless there are any objections from the floor, I'm going to release 7.9.0
07:08 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r7b40c8b / (3 files in 2 dirs): fix upgrade script, and SQL scripts. - http://bit.ly/bK82PX
07:08 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * ref81e69 / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.9.0 release. - http://bit.ly/9GW8wH
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07:45 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * reccf6a5 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.9.1 development. - http://bit.ly/9gKUSq
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08:29 -!- Radix_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [7.8.14-stable | 7.9.0-beta | WRE 0.9.3] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org | Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com
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16:23 < SDuensin> Greetings.
16:36 <+bartjol> morning
16:40 <+bartjol> SDuensin: do you perhaps know where I could have found that the 7.8.13->14 upgrade wasn't very wise to do, if I want to go beta?
16:41 <+bartjol> not that I didn't manage offcourse
16:41 <+bartjol> but it takes more troubles
16:41 < SDuensin> No idea bud.  I think going beta at any time is trouble.
16:41 <+bartjol> well, it is only for my test server
16:42 <+bartjol> so I know what problems to expect later
16:42 <+bartjol> and become less of a problem
16:42 <+bartjol> pro-active error making :)
16:42 < SDuensin> :-)
16:42  * SDuensin has still been too lazy to even get to 7.8.
16:43 <+bartjol> Ah, I wanted that awesome language features
16:43 <+bartjol> the guy that made those must be a superhero
16:43 < SDuensin> Other than English, I only speak programming languages.
16:43 < SDuensin> :-P
16:44 <+bartjol> ah, but you can practise to speak webgui in 4 languages, not very convenient in bars...
16:45 < SDuensin> hehe
16:46 <+bartjol> hey baby, Enter the attribute that should be used for each record in LDAP to  uniquely identify a user. This field is used for auto creating user accounts for users already in  your LDAP repository when they attempt to log in and for finding users who sign up for the site via the anonymous  registration feature if it is enabled. In almost all cases this  attribute is 'dn' and should be entered as such.
16:46 <+bartjol> nope, not a very catchy opening phrase
16:47 < SDuensin> Yea, but if she understands it - keep her!
16:47 < ckotil> heh
16:48 -!- Diggy [~dyioulos@65.105.102.162.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #webgui
16:48 < Diggy> hi, all
16:49 < SDuensin> Hey Diggy 
16:49 < Diggy> a few weeks ago, i got on the channel to ask about plans for a new VM version of webgui
16:50 < Diggy> i've had problems upgrading my VM version
16:50  * SDuensin remembers
16:50  * bartjol not
16:51 < Diggy> some kind soul on the channel suggested upgrading to v. 7.6.35 first
16:51 < Diggy> today i'm trying that, and have run into problems
16:51 <+bartjol> what kind?
16:52 <+bartjol> what version are/were you at before?
16:52 < Diggy> get through the upgrade process, but when firing off spectre.pl --daemon, got the following:
16:53 < Diggy> "Use of uninitialized value $pidFileName in -e at spectre.pl line 104.  No pidfile specified in spectre.conf"
16:53 < Diggy> huh?
16:53 < SDuensin> Yea.  That's actually a known issue.
16:53 < Diggy> can i fix?
16:53 < SDuensin> You need to find the conf file for it and add that line.
16:53  * SDuensin doesn't remember offhand where it is.  Will try and find it!
16:54 <+bartjol> /data/WebGUI/etc
16:54 <+bartjol> for the conf file
16:54 < Diggy> btw, going from v. 7.6.20 to v 7.6.35
16:54 <+bartjol> and WebGUI must be able to write where you put the pid file
16:54 <+bartjol> the webgui user that is
16:55 < SDuensin> Yea.  Open /data/WebGUI/etc/spectre.conf and add a line...
16:55 <+bartjol> maybe root writes it
16:55 < SDuensin> The last line in mine prior to the new one is "ignoreEnvProxy".  Put a comma at the end of that line...
16:55 < SDuensin> On the next line, put:
16:55 < SDuensin> "pidFile" : "/tmp/spectre.pid"
16:56 < SDuensin> The last line in the file should just be a closing brace:  }
16:56 < Diggy> no, WebGUI writes to it
16:57 < Diggy> beautiful, that worked!
16:58 < Diggy> thanks so much
16:58  * SDuensin cheers!
16:58 <+bartjol> we are awesome
16:58 < SDuensin> Our pleasure.
16:58 < Diggy> now, can i upgrade 7.6.35 to the very latest?
16:58 < Diggy> and you a r awesome!
16:58 <+bartjol> well there is at least a stop at 7.7.33
16:58 < SDuensin> I think so.  Might want to snapshot that VM first.  :-)
16:59 < Diggy> ok.  any gotchas?
16:59 <+bartjol> probably
16:59 < SDuensin> OH!  I misread that!  7.6.x to latest, no!  What bartjol said.
16:59 < Diggy> great ;-(
16:59 <+bartjol> look in github at 7.7.33
17:00 < Diggy> ok.  thanks for the tip on snapshotting the vm.  didn't think of that :-0
17:00 <+bartjol> http://github.com/plainblack/webgui/blob/webgui-7.7/docs/gotcha.txt
17:00 < Diggy> will do.  this is a giant step for me-kind, tho
17:01 < SDuensin> hehe
17:01 < SDuensin> WebGUI is worth the effort.
17:01 < Diggy> i agree!  that's why i've been so bummed at my inability to upgrade
17:01 <+bartjol> oh, i see that in that gotcha it only goes to 7.6.11
17:01 <+bartjol> so there'll be an overlap
17:02 < Diggy> i do like the rapid development afforded by the vm
17:02 < Diggy> i don't understand bartjol's point
17:03 <+bartjol> that there will be some steps that you've already taken
17:03 <+bartjol> in that gotcha
17:03 < Diggy> so, those are behind me then?
17:03 <+bartjol> yeah, but only partially
17:04 <+bartjol> so get the 7.6.35 and 7.7.33 gotchas next to each other and compare
17:04  * ckotil takes note. 
17:04 < ckotil> im at 7.6.35
17:04 < ckotil> been stuck for a while
17:06 < Diggy> looking at gotchas for 7.7, i see that a fair number of perl mods have changed/are required
17:07 < Diggy> scary, ew scary :-)
17:07 <+bartjol> we've heard some problems about testEnvironment not installing modules probably
17:07 <+bartjol> so manual might be better
17:08 < SDuensin> Really, bartjol ?
17:08 <+bartjol> yeah
17:08 <+bartjol> afraid so
17:08 <+bartjol> some forum posts I believe
17:08 < SDuensin> :-/
17:08 <+bartjol> not sure, maybe that is for specific wre buiilds
17:09 < Diggy> erm, does that mean that if i do a manual install 0f 7.7.33, that testEnvironment wiil fetch the proper modules (sorry if that's a dumb*ssed question)
17:10 <+bartjol> it should
17:10 < Diggy> i might as well give it a rip
17:10 <+bartjol> but you have to run it :P
17:10 < Diggy> ok
17:10 <+bartjol> if it failes, switch to manual
17:11 < Diggy> uh, sorry again, i don't understand.  i'm prepared to do a manual install of 7.7.33
17:11 <+bartjol> no, manual perl module installation
17:11 < Diggy> yeah, of course
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17:12 < SDuensin> Just try it and see what happens.  If it doesn't work, we can help you with cpan.
17:12 < Diggy> hopefully, Dag repo has them.  CPAN can be a PITA at times
17:12 < Diggy> appreciate the offer
17:12 < SDuensin> Dag?
17:13 < Diggy> yeah.  well known repo for CentOS/RHEL packages
17:13 < Diggy> aka rpmforge
17:14 < Diggy> you could look it up :-)
17:14 <+bartjol> oh, the build-essentials package is essential for debian
17:14 < SDuensin> Oh.  I don't do RPM.  :-)
17:14 <+bartjol> for the make program
17:14 < Diggy> ah.  well, the webgui vm appears to be built on CentOS 5
17:16 <+bartjol> ah, I don't have any routine with that
17:17 < Diggy> a repo RPM is available from the repository.  it creates the repo file needed for yum to get to Dag repo
17:17 < Diggy> then "yum install pkgname"
17:18 < Diggy> or,, grab individual perl modules (if available) manually, and use rpm to install
17:18 < Diggy> quite simple, really
17:19 < Diggy> ok, so i've got the 7.7.33 tarball
17:20 < Diggy> ready to try manual install (cheers and encouragement :-) ?)
17:21 < SDuensin> Is that the next stop point?
17:21  * SDuensin doesn't know.
17:22 < Diggy> you mean, is 7.7.33 the next stop point?  from what bartjol said above, it is
17:22  * bartjol thinks so
17:22 < SDuensin> Then rock on!  You're very safe with a snapshot.  Remember the snapshot?  :-)
17:22 <+bartjol> if there isn't anything else in the gotcha
17:25 < Diggy> snapshotting as we speak
17:26 <+bartjol> hey patspam, wre 0.9.4 is being copied
17:27 < SDuensin> Oh no!  That means more upgrades!  :-P
17:28 <+patspam> bartjol++
17:28 <+bartjol> SDuensin: that is a trial version, only for nice people :P
17:28 < SDuensin> Oh, I won't be nice then.  :-D
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17:38 <@Haarg> patspam, what kind of condition is your plack webgui in?  i've been messing with plack a bit recently and was thinking about spending some spare time on that.
17:38 <+patspam> hey haarg
17:38 <+patspam> I started playing with it again the other day
17:38 <@Haarg> i looked around at the code a bit but wasn't sure how close to fully working it was
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17:38 <+patspam> the Plack::Request api changed, so the old version was broken
17:38 <+patspam> but Plack::Request is stable now
17:39 <+patspam> for PlebGUI I localised the changes as much as possible
17:40 <+patspam> most of wG still thought it was using Apache2::Request etc..
17:40 <+patspam> for wg8 we should rip out a lot more of the guts
17:40 <@Haarg> yeah, i gathered there was a lot of compatibility code which we will hopefully do away with
17:40 <+patspam> it's going to be mostly straight forward
17:41 <+patspam> the only time consuming part I found was trying to find documentation on what the APR methods do, to try to map them to equivalent Plack::Request methods
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17:42 <+patspam> I'll push up what I've done recently
17:44 <+patspam> the other thing is
17:44 <+bartjol> for next time, where is it announced that there will be an upgrade script from stable to the first beta, I can manage to get it done easily, but I do have to read the scripts to see what is already done
17:44 <+patspam> plebgui was branched off 7.8.1
17:45 <@Haarg> luckily most of the large scale webgui 8 changes have been in assets so merging shouldn't prove too difficult
17:45 < Diggy> update - d*mn CPAN barfed! --> "Install of CSS::Minifier::XS failed!"
17:46 < Diggy> shall i try to install from CPAN shell with "force"?
17:46 < SDuensin> Be nice about it first.  :-)
17:47 <@Haarg> was that in the CPAN client or through testEnvironment?
17:47 < Diggy> yes (sorry for the swearing :-)  - sanity thing
17:47 < SDuensin> "Tension breaker!  Had to be done!"
17:47 < Diggy> oh, sorry, testEnvironment
17:48 < Diggy> true dat
17:48 <@Haarg> frodwith, i should probably file a bug for it but the tests for POE::Component::Server::PSGI seem to fail on windows
17:48 <@Haarg> try installing it with the CPAN shell, and if it fails pastebin the results
17:49 < Diggy> ok, trying now
17:53 < Diggy> eek.  first CSS::Minifier::XS u=install barfed because YAML wasn't installed.  did that.
17:54 < Diggy> then it barfed for some other reason.  see pastebin/ieAzYujw
17:57 <@Haarg> you have an actual link i can use?
17:58 <@Haarg> either that or it didn't post correctly
18:02 < Diggy> sorry about that.  try freebsd.pastebin.com/rVsKFfA9
18:02 <+MrHairgrease> you don't have a c compiler
18:03 < Diggy> really
18:03 <+MrHairgrease> what distro are you on
18:03 < SDuensin> MrHairgrease - It's the WebGUI VM.
18:03 < SDuensin> CENTOS
18:03 < Diggy> CentOS 5.x.  This is the WebGUI-provided VM
18:03 <+MrHairgrease> oh
18:03 <+MrHairgrease> i see
18:04 <+MrHairgrease> you can try 'which cc'
18:04 <+MrHairgrease> but that'll prolly tell you you don't have one
18:05 < Diggy> i note that gcc is not install.  will do that now and see if it helps
18:05 <+MrHairgrease> yup
18:05 <+MrHairgrease> that would help =)
18:05 < Diggy> i'm so exited
18:05 < Diggy> ok, a little exited
18:05 <+bartjol> i just can't hide it
18:05 <+MrHairgrease> you can from me bart
18:06 < Diggy> those'd make snappy tune lyrics :-)
18:06 <+MrHairgrease> biertje baidewai?
18:06 <+bartjol> njou, dasj lekkah
18:06 <+MrHairgrease> oki hang on
18:07 < Diggy> just out of curiosity, what language is that?
18:07 <+bartjol> very terrible dutch
18:08 < Diggy> i knew that ... no
18:08 <+MrHairgrease> terrible indeed...
18:08 <+MrHairgrease> but then again it's passed 5 so who can blame us
18:09 < Diggy> i wouldn't know terrible dutch from good dutch, so i'm impressed :-)
18:09 <+bartjol> yeah, we speak it fluently
18:09 <+MrHairgrease> Most Dutch people don't know the difference either
18:10 < Diggy> ok, gcc is installed.  should i try installing  CSS::Minifier::XS via CPAN shell, or try testEnvironment again
18:10 <+MrHairgrease> hey perlDreamer: remember those Moose attribute problems I had?
18:11 <+perlDreamer> yes
18:11 <+MrHairgrease> I made a moosex trait for it
18:11 <+perlDreamer> sweet
18:11 <+MrHairgrease> http://github.com/martink/moosex-slaveattribute/blob/master/lib/MooseX/SlaveAttribute.pm
18:11 <+MrHairgrease> Moose is awesome
18:12 < Diggy> mint, CSS::Minifier::XS installed.  now, shoudl i run testEnvironment again?
18:12 < Getty> Moose owns
18:13 < Getty> its the best method to bring java dudes to perl ;)
18:13 <+MrHairgrease> Diggy yes
18:13 < Diggy> and leave the poor moose alone! (i couldn't resist)
18:13 <+MrHairgrease> Getty, I don't think Java dudes can handle the dynamic sweetness that is perl =)
18:13 < Getty> hehe they can, they can
18:13 < Getty> its just that they didnt know about it ;)
18:14 < Getty> but there are some that dont
18:14 <+MrHairgrease> Diggy, you have mooses enough in Norway
18:14 < Diggy> I'm north american.  plenty here, too
18:14 <+MrHairgrease> what's the pluar of Moose anyway? Meese?
18:15 <+MrHairgrease> Oh, my bad
18:15 < SDuensin> Moosi
18:15 <+MrHairgrease> you're connected to a freenode server in Olso
18:15 < Diggy> moosi
18:15 < Diggy> the world is flat!
18:16 <+MrHairgrease> no
18:16 <+MrHairgrease> the world is round...
18:16 <+MrHairgrease> ...like a pancake
18:16 < Diggy> hey, ur helping me, so i won't argue the point :-)
18:16 <+MrHairgrease> hehe
18:17 < SDuensin> Smart lad.
18:18 < Diggy> mama didn't raise any fools
18:21 < Diggy> gonna step away for a cig (don't judge me) while CPAN does its thing
18:21 < SDuensin> JUDGEMENT COMEITH!
18:21 < Diggy> hey, it's the opiate of the masses
18:22 < SDuensin> My is coffee.
18:23 <+perlDreamer> My wife is in school to be a nurse.
18:23 <+perlDreamer> This term she is doing oncology (cancer treatment)
18:23 <+perlDreamer> all of her patients are smokers or ex-smokers
18:23 <+MrHairgrease> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCZPPGlVS6s
18:25 <+MrHairgrease> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWXbVsMkz1U
18:28 < Diggy> i said "don't judge me", didn't i? :-)
18:28 <+MrHairgrease> I'm not judging anyone
18:30 <+bartjol> MrHairgrease has smoke coming from every orifice of his body
18:31 <+MrHairgrease> Funny, never noticed that
18:32 <+bartjol> well, that invisible smoke yesterday almost killed Roberto and me
18:32 <+MrHairgrease> hehe
18:32 <+bartjol> roti, yeah right, Colin Powell has pictures of you!
18:33 <+MrHairgrease> hmmm, roti...
18:34 -!- fokat [~lem@200.84.99.228] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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18:36 < Diggy> update - upgrade seemed to work.  but when i try to go into admin mode, i get a "Problem with Request" page
18:36 <+MrHairgrease> did you restart modperl?
18:36 <+bartjol> a lot of times
18:37 <+bartjol> oh, sorry
18:37 < Diggy> as in restart apache?
18:37 <+bartjol> not me
18:37 <+MrHairgrease> yup
18:37 <+bartjol> no
18:37 <+bartjol> only apache isn't enough, is it?
18:37 <+MrHairgrease>  /data/wre/sbin/wreservice --restart modperl
18:38 <+MrHairgrease> or  /data/wre/sbin/wreservice --restart modperl specre
18:38 <+MrHairgrease> err
18:38 <+MrHairgrease>   /data/wre/sbin/wreservice --restart modperl spectre
18:41 < Diggy> many thanks, that did it!
18:41 <+MrHairgrease> no problem
18:41 < Diggy> i'm psyched, oh yeah.  i'm psyched, oh yeah (does a liitle dance)
18:42 < Diggy> NOW can i upgrade to latest and greatest?
18:46 < Diggy> Yes?  No?  (everyone must have gone out on a cig break ;-) )
18:47 <+MrHairgrease> i dunno what version you're at
18:47 <+MrHairgrease> so I cannot tell
18:47 < Diggy> 7.7.33
18:47 <+bartjol> what, I actually had some work to do
18:47 <+MrHairgrease> I guess you can then upgrade to th e7.8 series
18:47 <+bartjol> I try to avoid that, but hey
18:47 <+bartjol> yes
18:48 <+bartjol> maybe some perl modules
18:48 <+MrHairgrease> just look in the gotchas.txt file if there are some extra stoppoints on th eroad
18:48 <+bartjol> read the 7.8 gotcha
18:48 <+bartjol> maybe 7.8.13
18:48 <+perlDreamer> you can upgrade from 7.7.33 to 7.8.14 with no hiccups
18:48 <+perlDreamer> just extra module requirements
18:48 <+bartjol> ah
18:48 <+perlDreamer> we're trying to minimize mid-stream hiccups on the shunt path
18:48 <+bartjol> but if you want to go to beta, stop at 7.8.13
18:48 <+perlDreamer> yes
18:49 <+perlDreamer> but going to 7.9.0 is for heffalumps and woozils
18:49 <+bartjol> like me
18:49 < Diggy> oh yeah, work.  ok, i'll give 7.8.14 a whirl
18:49 <+perlDreamer> bartjol is a jagular
18:50 < Diggy> and, bartjol, take it easy on yourself :-)
18:50 <+bartjol> I will, but I had some moments today that I took pride in myself too much
18:51 <+bartjol> gotta keep the balance
18:51 < Diggy> been there.  then i do something completely idiotic, and it slaps me back to reality
18:51 <+perlDreamer> I worked with a guy who said, "All those atta-boys are killed by one aw shit."
18:51 <+bartjol> yeah, but for the few seconds it lasts, it is nice
18:52 < Diggy> and, as we all know, reality bites
18:52 <+bartjol> therefore, I wear steel underwear
18:52 < Diggy> yeah, a brief endorphin rush
18:54 < Diggy> perlDreamer, that one is going into my book of notable quotes
18:56 <+perlDreamer> I miss working with Jim, he was a good guy
19:02 < Diggy> update - i'm now running the latest-and-greatest WebGUI!!!
19:02 < Diggy> except for a couple of angst-filled moments, it was all pretty painless
19:03 < Diggy> that is, thanks to your help
19:03 < Diggy> i have 2 more questions:
19:03 <+bartjol> yes we wear skirts
19:03 <+bartjol> oops
19:04 <+bartjol> go ahaid, yhat 1 beer hit a spot
19:04 < Diggy> 1.  as part of the upgrade process, the instructions, i'm to restart apache
19:04 <+bartjol> well, mainly modperl
19:04 < Diggy> but when i try, i get an error saying that httpd.conf can't be found
19:04 <+bartjol> that is a mention in the output of the update script
19:04 <+bartjol> ah
19:04 <+bartjol> did you set the environment?
19:05 < Diggy> oops, so much for RTFM
19:05 <+MrHairgrease> are you restarting the system apache?
19:05 <+MrHairgrease> beacuse you shgouldn't do that
19:05 < Diggy> don't honestly know
19:05 <+bartjol> well he seems to try that
19:05 < Diggy> anyway, seems benign
19:05 <+bartjol> perl wreservice.pl --restart modproxy
19:05 <+MrHairgrease> if you use /data/wre/sbin/wreservice you don't have to worry about those things
19:06 <+bartjol> that wreservice indeed
19:06 <+MrHairgrease> it's better to hjust run it as /data/wre/sbin/wreservice
19:06 < Diggy> 2.  somewhere i saw that i can check the WebGUI version from the admin console
19:06 <+MrHairgrease> that way you don't need to set the environment in advance
19:06 < Diggy> but i don't see where
19:06 <+bartjol> it's in the statistics
19:06 < Diggy> and, ok to answers for #1
19:07 < Diggy> (sheepishly) i haven't really set up the site yet.  is "statistics" in the admin console?
19:08 < SDuensin> yup
19:08 < Diggy> it's probably staring me in the face
19:08 < SDuensin> Little picture of a bar graph.
19:08 <+bartjol> it's somewhere at words that start with an "S"
19:09 < Diggy> uh, oh, i don't see that
19:09 <+MrHairgrease> are you admin?
19:09 < Diggy> yup
19:09 <+bartjol> you're not at the new content, are you?
19:10 < Diggy> see, my installation luck was too good to be true :-)
19:10 < Diggy> yes, new content
19:10 <+bartjol> that is not good
19:10 <+bartjol> sorry
19:10 < Diggy> ah, NOW i see it.  arrgh
19:10 < SDuensin> :-)
19:11 <+bartjol> 1 click away
19:11 < CIA-58> WebGUI: translation * r12450 /translations/German/German/ (4 files): Updating German on translation server
19:11 <+bartjol> perlDreamer: have you recomitted dutch to?
19:11 < Diggy> hmm, odd.  says WebGUI Build Version 7.7.33. Latest version available 7.8.14
19:11 <+bartjol> too?
19:12 -!- noroute [~noroute@z2f73.pia.fu-berlin.de] has quit [Quit: noroute]
19:12 < Diggy> i just installed 7.8.14 (didn't i?)
19:12 <+perlDreamer> bartjol, I just did German as a test
19:12 <+MrHairgrease> ok, have fun with your new wg install, I have to go to the bar
19:12 <+bartjol> ok, want another test? I won't touch it then
19:12 <+perlDreamer> Diggy, you can check the WebGUI version from any page
19:12 -!- MrHairgrease [~martin@194.171.50.69] has left #webgui []
19:12 <+perlDreamer> I'll commit yer stuff, bartjol
19:12 <+perlDreamer> go chase after MrHairgrease
19:12 < Diggy> if i were there, i'd buy you a tall frosty one
19:12 <+bartjol> eeeh, beer
19:13 <+perlDreamer> there you go
19:13  * SDuensin is closer, Diggy.  :-P
19:13 <+bartjol> duck, you suckers, eeeh, I mean: so long dear people
19:14 -!- bartjol [~bartjol@kantoor.procolix.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:14 < Diggy> what a nice person
19:14 <+perlDreamer> bartjol is good people
19:15 < Diggy> perlDreamer, any idea why i'm not seeing 7.8.14 as installed?
19:15 < SDuensin> I think I need cheeseburgers.
19:15 < SDuensin> What do you see?
19:15 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin: u can haz cheezbrgrz
19:15 < Diggy> 7.7.13 is the Build Version reported
19:15 < SDuensin> Uh oh.
19:16 < Diggy> i could stand a burger, too
19:16 <+perlDreamer> Diggy, what's the version in /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI.pm ?
19:16 <+perlDreamer> right near the top of the file, first 10-15 lines or so
19:16 < Diggy> and what do you mean, "uh, oh".  not a confidence builder
19:16 < SDuensin> :-)
19:16 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin: u can haz cheezbrgr
19:17 < SDuensin> perlDreamer:  Yea, but I gotta go get cheezbrgr.
19:17 <+perlDreamer> but only if you stop scaring the newbies
19:18 < Diggy> yeash, stop scaring the newbies!  WebGUI.pm says "our $VERSION = '7.8.14'"
19:20 <+perlDreamer> okay, Diggy, here's what you need to do
19:20 <+perlDreamer> Log into the site as Admin, Turn On Admin, Admin Console, Cache, clear cache
19:20 <+perlDreamer> clear the cache in your browser
19:20 <+perlDreamer> restart modperl again
19:21 <+perlDreamer> turn around three times while chanting "WebGUI ROCKS!!" while holding a small purple octopus over your head
19:23 < Diggy> used an armadillo for the dance, instead.  it worked!
19:23 < SDuensin> I've done that.  It works.
19:24 -!- Trex [~Dale@x-160-94-170-39.borg.umn.edu] has joined #webgui
19:24 < Diggy> if i had the octopus, i'd have eaten it
19:25  * SDuensin bought one to watch over his server.
19:25 < Diggy> first of all, to be completely semi-serious, thank you all so much for your help and your patience
19:25 < Diggy> not only do i have a working latest-and-greatest, but i've had fun getting there
19:26 <+perlDreamer> awesome :)
19:26  * SDuensin cheers!
19:26 < CIA-58> WebGUI: translation * r12451 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (Asset_SQLReport.pm Form_Username.pm Form.pm): Updating Dutch on translation server
19:26 < SDuensin> See?  You should hang out.  We're fun.
19:26 < Diggy> i'd like to drop in every once-in-a-while to do just that
19:26 <+perlDreamer> Diggy, here's a little more advice
19:26 <+perlDreamer> browse the wiki
19:26 < Diggy> ?
19:26 < Diggy> ok
19:27 <+perlDreamer> download the WebGUI starter guide from plainblack.com and read it cover to cover
19:27 < SDuensin> Yea.  What he said.
19:27 <+perlDreamer> report bugs when you find them, and answer questions to your bugs promptly
19:27 < Diggy> reading! oh, no.
19:27 <+perlDreamer> search the forum for questions/answers
19:27 < SDuensin> Hehe
19:27 < SDuensin> It has pictures!
19:27 < Diggy> whew
19:27 <+perlDreamer> if you do these things, the WebGUI support community will smile and bless you
19:27 < Diggy> i can use all the help i can get!
19:28 < Diggy> i'll do as advised
19:28 < Diggy> now that i have a brand spankin' new install, i'll go at it in earnest
19:28 < Diggy> ... i don't think earnest will mind
19:29 < SDuensin> SNAPSHOT IT!
19:29 < SDuensin> :-)
19:29 < Diggy> will do
19:29  * SDuensin loves VMs.
19:29 <+perlDreamer> run your backups daily
19:29 < Diggy> so does Diggy
19:30 < Diggy> wait a minute here, there's real work involved here :-)
19:30 <+perlDreamer> the WRE is setup to run backups for you
19:30 <+perlDreamer> just setup the correct cron job
19:30 < Diggy> good to know
19:31 < Diggy> i can do that
19:32 <+perlDreamer> I think the list of cron jobs is in the wiki
19:32 < Diggy> the wiki seems like a must
19:32 < Diggy> i'm just kinda noodlin' around the admin console now.  how kewl
19:33 < Trex> Hi folks. I have some simple questions about using preload.custom -- questions that appear not to be anwered in the wiki.
19:33 < Diggy> well, back to work
19:33 < SDuensin> Take your time.  Don't get frustrated.
19:33 < Diggy> as i said earlier, reality bites
19:33 < SDuensin> Frustration leads you to do dumb things.  Like when I installed Drupal and Joomla.
19:34 < SDuensin> OK, I'm going for food at last.  Back soon!
19:34 < Diggy> SDuensin, i learned a long time ago that if u want to success in IT, u have to be patient
19:34 < Diggy> anyway, thanks to all again
19:34 < Trex> For example, I want to add a couple template variables to Calendar.pm, specifically to the month view...
19:34 < Diggy> ttfn
19:35 -!- Diggy [~dyioulos@65.105.102.162.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:35 < Trex> To do this with preload.custom, do you have to copy the entire Calendar.pm file over, or just the subroutines that you wish to modify (like viewMonth)?
19:37 < Trex> In other words, does preload.custom replace everything within the original Calendar.pm file if it sees it in the custom directory, or does it give you more fine control over specific subroutines?
19:37 <+perlDreamer> Trex: you'd subclass Asset/Wobject/Calendar.pm, and just override the subroutines that you need to
19:38 <+perlDreamer> custom.preload just adds directories to @INC
19:38 <+perlDreamer> everything else is vanilla perl
19:38 <+perlDreamer> what kind of variables do you want to add?
19:39 <+perlDreamer> if you just want more date formats, I would use a Macro instead of changing code
19:40 < Trex> Thanks, pearlDreamer. I don't suppose you could point me to a simple example that would show the syntax for how you would sublcass something. I can do some damage in Perl, but I'm hardly an expert. :)
19:40 <+perlDreamer> it's pretty simple
19:40 < Trex> What I would like is a "previousMonthUrl" and "nextMonthUrl" variable. Right now you just get a loop of months and links to them, so it seems a bit complex to try to build a marco that would generate these links from the available template variables.
19:41 <+perlDreamer> use base qw/WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Calendar/; #for sub classing
19:45 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r1427692 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Fix direct linking to posts and threads when their pagination is set to 0. Fixes bug #11464. - http://bit.ly/aH0GC5
19:45 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r21e3210 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Fix direct linking to posts and threads when their pagination is set to 0. Fixes bug #11464. - http://bit.ly/cEWaYy
19:59 < Trex> With subclassing, would I then be making an entire alternate variation of the Calendar (a whole new asset) in which my changes would be available, or does this make the changes available within the standard WebGUI Calendar asset?
20:01 <+perlDreamer> well, if you subclass, it's a whole new asset
20:01 <+perlDreamer> but if you monkey-patch, it would alter the default Calendar
20:01 < Trex> Monkey-patching referring going into the API and modifying it yourself?
20:01  * perlDreamer suggests just patching the regular Calendar, and making an RFE to move the code into the core
20:02 <+perlDreamer> in monkey patching, you overwrite subroutines in another module
20:02 <+perlDreamer> it's kind of like pulling weeds in your neighbors yards
20:02 <+perlDreamer> it gets rid of the weeds, but isn't the best thing to be doing
20:02 < Trex> I was hoping that preload.custom was a way to create custom mods that would apply to the core, but would be outside the upgrade path.
20:03 <+perlDreamer> it is, but only as new assets, not by changing existing ones
20:03 < Trex> And yes, I was planning on submitting an RFE, but wanted to test my code first under the preload.custom model -- at least how I thought it worked.
20:04 < SDuensin> What about this?  http://www.webgui.org/wgtv/the-swiftysite-technique  (Or is that "monkey patching"?)
20:06 <+perlDreamer> I'm not sure how they built it, SD.  I didn't attend that session last year
20:06 -!- fokat [~lem@200.84.99.228] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:06 < SDuensin> It's interesting.  Some Perl-fu I've not seen before.  (Which isn't hard to find.)
20:06 -!- fokat [~lem@200.84.99.228] has joined #webgui
20:14 < Trex> Thanks for the help, perlDreamer! I must be off again.
20:14 -!- Trex [~Dale@x-160-94-170-39.borg.umn.edu] has left #webgui []
20:44 <+patspam> Haarg: I pushed up the Plack code as the "plebgui" branch
20:46 <+perlDreamer> patspam: my son Peter says there is good wine tasting on the trains at Mt. Hood
20:47 <+perlDreamer> I'm not sure if he's trying to get a ride out of it, or wanting to try some wine (kid is only 10!), or authentically trying to be helpful
20:47 <+patspam> either way... totally awesome!
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22:16 <@preaction> patspam: does that mean plebgui is ready for prime-time?
22:16 <+patspam> well..
22:16 <+patspam> I think I hacked it back to functional post-Plack::Request api changes
22:17 <+patspam> but the next step would be to rewrite it
22:17 <+patspam> ripping out Apache::Request altogether
22:19 <+patspam> lib/WebGUI/Session/Plack.pm fakes the parts of Apache::Request API that webgui uses
22:19 <@preaction> ahh
22:20 <+patspam> really we should rip the guts out of WebGUI.pm, use middleware instead of content handlers, and refactor $session->request to be more naturally PSGI
22:21 <@preaction> oh yes, but that would be far outside the scope of 8, and that is my plan for eventually (which, if i have my way, means 9)
22:21 <@preaction> though that means we're once again playing catchup
22:22 <+patspam> how much is within scope?
22:23 <@preaction> ripping out Apache::Request is fine, i don't think that any asset-level custom code should be using $session->request. so any changes to that should be fine
22:24 <@preaction> but using plack middleware not as fine, it's another set of changes and stuff we don't have time for
22:24 <@preaction> though having a way to use plack middleware would be fine, then we could migrate at our leisure
22:25 <@preaction> the main thing is we need to start having preview releases of WG8 in the next 3-4 months
22:26 <+patspam> ok, so we keep support for content & url handlers in WebGUI.pm
22:26 <@preaction> for now, yes
22:26 <+patspam> I started converting the core handlers to middleware for plebgui, it's mostly an easy translation
22:27 <+patspam> middleware will be possible as soon as we support PSGI
22:27 <@preaction> okay
22:27 <@preaction> anything to get rid of apache as soon as possible
22:27 <@preaction> well, not apache, but modperl, but whatevz
22:28 <+patspam> what's the plan for modproxy?
22:29 <+patspam> did you say something about nginx + wgaccess the other day?
22:29 <@preaction> nginx, yes
22:29 <+patspam> sweet
22:29 <@preaction> i'd really really really like to see if we can make WebGUI entirely async, but that might be more of a research project for a GSOC or something
22:29 <+patspam> now you're talking!
22:30 <@preaction> JT wanted carrier grade, I want to deliver ;)
22:30 <+patspam> sweet. I've been playing with tatsumaki quite a bit lately
22:32 <@preaction> interesting
22:32 <+patspam> I'm bolt bussing to boston tonight (4hrs), I might see about ripping out Apache::Request
22:32 <+patspam> the thing that was slowing me down was not knowing where to look up docs for the APR api
22:33 <+patspam> I can never find the damn methods in cpan
22:33 <@preaction> yeah, you gotta go to modperl.apache.org or whatever
22:36 <+patspam> it's so annoying that you have to guess which package the method is in
22:36 <+patspam> Apache2::RequestRec, Apache2::RequestUtil, ..
22:39 -!- carogray [~Caroline@72-59-50-141.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #webgui
22:39 <+patspam> I don't know if there's any sane way to keep the content and url handlers API
22:40 <+patspam> because they're coupled to Apache request
22:41 <@preaction> oh, right, of course
22:41 <@preaction> well, URL handlers can go
22:42 <@preaction> better idea: just make it a Plack::Request object instead and we'll make people change
22:42 <+patspam> yeah that's much more preferable
22:43 <+patspam> Asset is the only content handler that is coupled to Apache
22:43 <+patspam> for streaming uploads
22:43 <@preaction> ah, yeah that'll have to change
22:44 <+patspam> but apart from that, we can preserve the contentHandler api
22:44 <+patspam> url handlers will be so much nicer as middleware anyway
22:44 <@preaction> indeed
22:45 <+patspam> the one ugly hack i can remember in plebgui is that it buffers output
22:46 <+patspam> but once we rip out Apache::Request I think we can fix that
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23:20 <+perlDreamer> patspam, there's some apache module which will tell you in which other modules the docs live
23:20 <+perlDreamer> it was posted to the dev list a long time ago
23:25 <+patspam> hmm can't find it
23:30 <+patspam> well, with any luck I'll have internet access on the bus, so maybe chat to you guys later on
23:30  * patspam heads to boston
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23:32  * perlDreamer heads off to pick up the kids
23:33 <+perlDreamer> then I'll see about finding that Apache documentation module
23:33 <+perlDreamer> it was perl -MApache:::Something -e 'find method_name;'
23:33 <+perlDreamer> very simple
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00:53 <+perlDreamer> ha! found it
00:53 <+perlDreamer> http://perl.apache.org/docs/2.0/api/ModPerl/MethodLookup.html
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01:06 < Getty> stupid question, someone asked me, can WebGUI run as (Fast)CGI? i dont think so, or?
01:12 <+perlDreamer> no
01:13 <+perlDreamer> right now it only runs as modpel
01:13 <+perlDreamer> modperl
01:13 <+perlDreamer> in WebGUI 8, it might run as FastCGI through the magic of Plack
01:13 <+perlDreamer> but we shall see
01:19 <@preaction> Getty: if you want to help patspam with the plack translation, i'm sure he'd be appreciative (and so would i)
01:19 <@preaction> if you can backport it to 7.x that'd be wonderful as well.
01:20 < Getty> magic of Plack... ok ;)
01:20 < Getty> nah, just curious.... is there mod_perl for lighttpd? so far i avoided mod_perl in general cause it made very strange errors in the past
01:21 <+perlDreamer> we've been using it for quite a while now
01:21 <+perlDreamer> and aside from using lots of memory, it's been fine
01:21 <@preaction> it's not mod_perl so much as Apache::Request <- that's the big part
01:21 < Getty> (for example long time mod_perl had the bug to disable parsing off .htaccess files with a path longer then 128 chars, whatever mod_perl was active for the vhost/dir or not)
01:22 < Getty> if you had such kind of bugs you avoid that software for a longer time ;)
01:22 <@preaction> the WRE puts a mod_proxy instance in front to serve static content or normal CGI stuff, the idea being to get rid of the problems of mod_perl from standard serving
01:22 <@preaction> you could use lighty or nginx as the proxy
01:22 < Getty> varnish and/or lighttpd should be the highest front
01:22 < Getty> varnish + ESI... owns...
01:22 < Getty> you REALLY should dive into this if you dont know it
01:23 < Getty> its the concept akamai works on
01:26 <@preaction> it's something to look at, but first we have to get rid of the reliance on apache
01:27 < Getty> actually, if you use varnish + esi you could not care about that anymore
01:27 < Getty> seriously
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01:28 < Getty> patspam: we just talked about you :-P
01:28 <@preaction> apache/mod_perl really hampers us when it comes to performance, real performance
01:28 <+patspam> I felt my ears burning
01:28 <+perlDreamer> it was better than CGI
01:28 <+patspam> yay for bolt bus interwebs
01:29 < Getty> preaction: yeah but you gain so much performance with that concept... you know it at all? i always wanted to set it up but my newest employer is actually not in the size for the requirement ;) at my old one they was to less into new technology (thats why i left)
01:29 <@preaction> the ESI stuff would probably require a whole bunch of work, and may not even be viable for our model, where an entire page can be completely dependent on the user who is viewing it (not RESTful, but we've never enforced it in the past)
01:30 < Getty> the caching of specific layers is something that already boosts much
01:30 < Getty> even tho i know what you mean
01:30 <@preaction> i'm not saying we can't do it, i'm saying we've got priorities, and our internals are so horrible that i'd rather straighten those out than try to build something on top of it
01:30 < Getty> understandable
01:31 < Getty> i just say that its worth to have a deeper look at it before you do some more internal rework
01:31 <@preaction> i'd love to just scrap the entire project and build something fully  modern on a completely async stack with sharding and caching and replication in mind on the full backend, but... well...
01:31 < Getty> i know what you mean, 100%
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01:31 < Getty> but i'm a rapid developer and i always tell: have one proof of concept so that you got it in mind, and probably "something happens"
01:32 < Getty> and you guys are actually the best targets for that concept with that massive control about the env with WRE
01:33 <@preaction> well, that's what the Plack stuff is for, to reduce our deps on WRE. that being said, I still want the WRE to be the "Best Way To Deploy WebGUI"
01:33 < Getty> yeah it is
01:33 <@preaction> but it'd still be nice to "cpan> install WebGUI"
01:33 < Getty> yes of course
01:33 < Getty> "whatever the user fits best"
01:33 < Getty> but its awesome that you even THINK (thought) about WRE
01:33 < Getty> that you made it
01:33 < Getty> and see it as something that you can offer the user
01:33 <@preaction> but then we're back to "so much to do, no manpower"
01:33 < Getty> that is really "nextgen" in my eyes
01:34 <@preaction> you'd be surprised at the naysayers, even i don't run WRE on my dev box anymore (lib incompatibilities with standard OS X stuff)
01:34 <@preaction> but local::lib and perlswitch might work nicely with what we have
01:34 < Getty> my resources i give out are mostly concentrated on Padre and lower level libraries (like Webframeworks where you build stuff like WebGUI ;) )
01:34 < Getty> yeah
01:34 < Getty> i use it that way
01:34 < Getty> no wait, i lie i dont
01:34 < Getty> but it owuld work
01:35 < Getty> no libs you use are incompatible with local::lib
01:35 <@preaction> well, WebGUI is its own framework (which i'm trying to fix, see http://github.com/preaction/modern-webgui
01:35 < Getty> i just wasnt sure how i use local::lib + mod_Perl and i didnt wanted to try out
01:35 < Getty> of course you got your own framework :)
01:35 < Getty> i didnt suggested anything else
01:35 < Getty> :)
01:35 <@preaction> i mean, i like Cat, but it doesn't mesh with the ideas of CMS very well (imho)
01:36 < Getty> oh.... i will now start official my learning of Catalyst to port my (dont say one word) PHP Webframework to Perl
01:36 < Getty> cause actually i still use it cause there is nothing like that on CPAN ;)
01:36 <@preaction> new door
01:37 <@preaction> (wow, that joke might be way too inside for anyone to get)
01:37 < Getty> and i thought: whatever i do, i should make it on top of Catalyst, cause its made by some of the most experienced CPAN developers and so it should be a good base
01:37 <@preaction> new door is an anagram for "one word".
01:37 < Getty> sounds like you also like good tea ;)
01:37 <@preaction> indeed. it's an app framework, and a CMS could be considered an app
01:37 < Getty> catalyst is an app framework?
01:38 < Getty> i totally considered it so far as framework
01:38 <@preaction> well, web app framework
01:38 < Getty> well wait...
01:38 <+patspam> Getty: I used local::lib to deploy plebgui on shared hosting
01:38 < Getty> mh where i can say the porder
01:38 < Getty> aehm border
01:38 < Getty> lets say i define an app framework more like something that does something even if you does nothing
01:38 < Getty> if you get what i mean
01:39 < Getty> even tho i must insist that definition is not that good, even tho its hard to make a REAL border
01:39 <@preaction> ah, yes. WebGUI without the core asset set
01:39 <@preaction> Catalyst is a framework
01:39 < Getty> yeah you need to code an app with it
01:39 <@preaction> Django is an app framework (has the admin stuff built-in)
01:39 < Getty> yeah
01:39 < Getty> that is what i meant
01:39 < Getty> my framework does also nearly nothing when you dont do anything
01:39 < Getty> but it gives you an error which template is missing ;) so you directly know where to start
01:39 < Getty> hehe
01:40 <@preaction> modern-webgui is heavily django-influenced (<3 django, but it really needs to start adding to the "app" part)
01:40 < Getty> but its just the content template, the complete structure of the page in standard divs is already there blabla you know what i mean
01:40 < Getty> its more "app"
01:41 < Getty> i got an awesome form management, which now definitly needs refactoring, and i said: fuck that shit i directly convert now to perl
01:41 < Getty> my boss is also hot for perl
01:41 < Getty> so.... we defined 1 day / week i go now for the perl startup so that we got something in some weeks
01:41 < Getty> its so ugly situation if you got something awesome to work with and its just in the wrong language... but its my fault so i cant blame anyone
01:42 < Getty> my only big problem still is that i need smarty syntax templates... its still p.d. the best non-coder syntax style, i know you can bend TT much to behave much like that but it seems impossible to make it "$var" instead of "var"
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13:25 < CIA-58> webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r913fa9a / (58 files in 20 dirs): clean up Tie::IxHash imports - http://bit.ly/bBzkwl
13:25 < CIA-58> webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * ra22162b / (11 files in 4 dirs): clean up Tie::CPHash imports - http://bit.ly/anYS7t
13:25 < CIA-58> webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r2af4c4d / (47 files in 15 dirs): clean up WebGUI::Utility imports - http://bit.ly/atTsk0
13:25 < CIA-58> webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * r45ca61b / (6 files in 2 dirs): more import cleanups - http://bit.ly/cZk5IY
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16:19 < SDuensin> Morning.
16:22 <+bartjol> hey scott
16:24 < SDuensin> Hey bartjol 
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16:55 <+bartjol> oh, yeah, a customer called
16:55 <+bartjol> strange people
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17:34 <+perlDreamer> morning, folks
17:35 < SDuensin> Hey perlDreamer 
17:36 <@Haarg> morning
17:39 <@Haarg> is there any reason to keep the 7.7 upgrades in WebGUI8 i'm not thinking of?
17:43 <+perlDreamer> none
17:43 <+perlDreamer> I just got through pruning the 7.7 upgrades out of 7.8 and 7.9
17:43 < SDuensin> Crap.  Out of coffee.
17:43 <+perlDreamer> taking kids to school, be back in 20
17:43  * SDuensin will still be here.
17:46 < CIA-58> webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * rb24978e / (182 files in 23 dirs): removing old upgrades - http://bit.ly/bfFTRX
17:56 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, what do you think about removing the form magic from property, and requiring people to put things into form directly?
17:57 <@Haarg> i was thinking about that.  the magic is becoming more problematic.
17:58 <@Haarg> but it also seems like it should work fine to continue having the magic
17:58 <+perlDreamer> what about the thing with adding traits and the meta_property?
17:59 <+perlDreamer> it seems like we need to have a class with the trait applied to see what the attribute will do
17:59 <+perlDreamer> so then we're building some anonymous throwaway metaclass just to do that
17:59 <@Haarg> kind of
18:00 <@Haarg> but it caches the metaclass it builds
18:00 <@Haarg> based on the traits applied
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18:18 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, in order to apply the roles to the anon class, I need to get it inside the buidler for _property_metaclass
18:18 <+perlDreamer> but builder methods don't get arguments, other than $self
18:19 <+perlDreamer> I think that means we need to flatten it into add_property
18:19 <+perlDreamer> "it" being _property_metaclass
18:20 <@Haarg> yeah, we might just want to do away with _property_metaclass
18:27 <+perlDreamer> are you going to talk about Moose at the WUC this year, Haarg?
18:28 <@Haarg> no.  i don't remember if someone else was planning on talking about it.
18:37 <@Haarg> ugh i hate UNIVERSAL::(isa|can) so much
18:39 <+perlDreamer> yeah
18:40 <+perlDreamer> if it would just shut up, it would be a little more tolerable
18:40 <@Haarg> i would be fine with the warnings if they weren't all false positives
18:41 <@Haarg> like this
18:41 <@Haarg> Called UNIVERSAL::isa() as a function, not a method at /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.10.1/UNIVERSAL/can.pm line 43
18:45 <+perlDreamer> any thoughts on this: http://gist.github.com/329325
18:48 <@Haarg> where is that trait supposed to be from?
18:48 <+perlDreamer> Moose::Meta::Attribute::Native::Trait::Array
18:48 <+perlDreamer> I think that's the problem
18:48 <+perlDreamer> there's magic in traits to expand Array into Moose::Meta::Attribute::Native::Trait::Array
18:49 <@Haarg> yeah
18:50 <+perlDreamer> $perlDreamer->invoke('dispel magic', 'WebGUI::Definition::add_property');
18:50 <+perlDreamer> crud
18:50 <+perlDreamer> You have to be a level 3 magic user to do that
18:52 <+perlDreamer> or was it level 5?
18:52 <+perlDreamer> it's been too long ago
18:57 <@Haarg> that may be the best way to go
18:58 <@Haarg> there are two other alternatives.  first is using Moose::Meta::Class->interpolate_class(_and_new)? to make the metaclass object
18:58 <@Haarg> and the other 'better' solution that we don't have time for, which is making traits for all of the form types
18:59 <+perlDreamer> that would mean that I'd need to build a form type for handling JSON in the db, for things that never send the JSON to a form
19:00 <+perlDreamer> but I agree that we need a type system, and have our forms interact with that
19:00 <+perlDreamer> and, personally, I think we should base it on native Moose type, and build around that, rather than the other way around
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19:04 <+perlDreamer> I think that's a typo
19:04 <+perlDreamer> I don't see an interpolate_class in Moose::Meta::Class
19:05 <@Haarg> i guess it isn't in the pod
19:05 <+perlDreamer> it's not in the code, either
19:05 <+perlDreamer> it's actually in Moose::Meta::Attribute
19:05 <@Haarg> err
19:05 <+perlDreamer> and it does resolve trait names
19:05 <@Haarg> yeah, that's the one
19:06 <+perlDreamer> the farther back we push into Moose, the more susceptible we're going to be to future change
19:07 <@Haarg> especially for undocumented methods
19:08 <+perlDreamer> that's just a typo, I'll track down their repo and submit a doc patch
19:08 <@Haarg> typo?
19:09 <+perlDreamer> in the docs, it says to call Moose::Meta::Class->interp....
19:09 <+perlDreamer> it should be Moose::Meta::Attribute->interp
19:09 <@Haarg> Moose::Meta::Attribute->interpolate_class is undocumented though
19:10 <+perlDreamer> right, the only one that's documented is interpolate_class_and_new
19:13  * perlDreamer goes to the gym
19:20 <@Haarg> unfortunately, interpolate_class is the one we want
19:32 <@Haarg> perlDreamer, completely untested but i was thinking something like this http://gist.github.com/329395
20:17 <+perlDreamer> it looks exactly right, codewise
20:17 <+perlDreamer> I'll see what the tests say
20:17 <+perlDreamer> maybe a quick pop into #moose to ask about that method?
20:17 <+perlDreamer> 'cuz I'd be happy to make them a doc patch for it
20:18 < Getty> whats the problem?
20:18 <+perlDreamer> and to find out if it's going to be, expected to be deprecated
20:18 <+perlDreamer> this method: Moose::Meta::Attribute->interpolate_class
20:18 <+perlDreamer> is not documented in the POD
20:18 <+perlDreamer> from previous, painful experience, that means it might not be wise to use it, Getty
20:18 < Getty> there are many not documented in the POD cause they are used internal or shouldnt be used by users who have no idea
20:18 < Getty> yeah
20:18 < Getty> those functions are 99% sure to be changed or dropped
20:19 < Getty> i even think that i know of interpolate_class that its not the right way
20:24 <@Haarg> not the right way for what?
20:28 <@Haarg> perlDreamer, i think i have my WebGUI::Paths branch working properly.  the only things that still refer to the WebGUI lib directory are the POD/Perl::Critic tests.  api breaks on WebGUI::Session->open and WebGUI::Config->new.
20:28 <+perlDreamer> those are low usage API methods, and we're in 8 anyway
20:28 <@Haarg> yeah
20:29 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, does changing ownership of a file leave a timestamp somewhere I can check?
20:29 <+perlDreamer> in the filesystem?
20:29 <@Haarg> don't believe so
20:29 <@Haarg> why?
20:42 <+perlDreamer> Getty, why is interpolate_class the wrong way to do it?
20:42 < Getty> its just somehting that pops into my mind if i remember
20:42 < Getty> i must check into it what it does again, then i probably remember my case
20:43 < Getty> but i did some deeper stuff in moose and that is function-ape-jungle-hopping ;)
21:07 <+perlDreamer> I think I'll do some googling, then ask in #moose real quick
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21:17 <+perlDreamer> hey, tavisto!
21:17 <@tavisto> hey brotah
21:17 <@tavisto> er brotha
21:18 <@tavisto> how's life?
21:18 <+perlDreamer> very busy
21:19 <+perlDreamer> kids, jobs, wife
21:19 <+perlDreamer> cooking, cleaning, laundry
21:19 <+perlDreamer> remodeling, electrical work, appliance installs
21:22 <@Haarg> hey tavisto, did you see that steam + valve's games are coming to mac?
21:23 <@Haarg> no more rebooting needed for tf2
21:23 <@tavisto> yeah, been busy here too. Craziness. hehe I've been working on my house a lot as well.
21:24 <@tavisto> Just finished my taxes so that's a good thing to check off my list. And no I hadn't heard about steam coming to mac.. That rocks!!!
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21:32 <@tavisto> Haarg, you enjoying your MBP upgrade? I like this sooo much better.
21:32 <@Haarg> it is quite nice, yeah
21:33 <@tavisto> really nice when I have to jump into windows on VMware
21:33 <@tavisto> Does anyone know why my ^AdSpace(); macro would just print out on a style template rather than showing an ad?
21:34 <@tavisto> I'm sitting here thinking... there's nothing to it.... or am I just having a brain fart
21:34 <@Haarg> not sure.  where is this?
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21:35 <+perlDreamer> the Ad in the AdSpace could have a problem
21:35 <@Haarg> i hope they make 85W power adapters with the new connector at some point http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC461LL/A?fnode=MTY1NDEwMQ&mco=MTMzODAwMDI
21:35 <@Haarg> would be much more convenient than the current ones
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21:39 <@tavisto> Haarg, perlDreamer it's on the TGC Forums (bugs)
21:39 <@tavisto> instead of rendering the ad, it just prints out the macro on the page
21:39 <@tavisto> I'm 99% sure that macro is enabled by default 
21:40 <+perlDreamer> we can check that
21:41 <+perlDreamer> nope, it's not
21:41 <+perlDreamer> you want it added, tavisto?
21:42 <@tavisto> oh crap then that's why
21:42 <@tavisto> could you enable that on TGC
21:42 <+perlDreamer> sure
21:42 <@tavisto> thanks, I'm sitting here wondering what the heck is going on
21:43 <+perlDreamer> okay, please give her a retry
21:45 <+perlDreamer> oh yeah
21:46 <@tavisto> booyah grandma
21:48 <+perlDreamer> normally we don't do support for clients over IRC, but we always make an exception for you, tavisto
21:53 <@tavisto> gee thanks
21:53 <@tavisto> I have a special support package
21:54 <+perlDreamer> It's the Brazilian BBQ+ package
22:04 <+perlDreamer> speaking of which, it is definitely time for lunch
22:04 <+perlDreamer> bbiaw
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23:21 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, that returns a meta class of the class Moose::Meta::Attribute
23:22 <+perlDreamer> and technically, it only returns a class name
23:38 <+perlDreamer> and now Definition.t passes: http://gist.github.com/329691
23:38 <+perlDreamer> I'll try the others next
23:44 <+perlDreamer> all right!
23:44 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf4467cb / lib/WebGUI/Definition/Meta/Class.pm : Attempt #1 to pass traits through property. - http://bit.ly/91yb6D
23:44 <+perlDreamer> we have traits
23:44 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r570eea7 / t/Definition.t : Add test for passing through traits. - http://bit.ly/atojzC
23:44 <+perlDreamer> now I just have to write some
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10:58 < CIA-58> WebGUI: translation * r12452 /translations/ (201 files in 3 dirs): Updating Czech on translation server
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14:33 < SynQhome> bah
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16:17 < SDuensin> Morning.
16:20 <+bartjol> hey scott, learned dutch already?
16:23 < SDuensin> Voorjen!
16:23 < SDuensin> That close?
16:25 <+bartjol> voorjen? what kind of dialect is that?
16:26 < SDuensin> It had double vowels and a J in a strange place.  Looked Dutch to me.  :-P
16:29 <+bartjol> it looks like it, but does not sound like it,  so it is not a duck
16:30 < SDuensin> Then it's not a witch.
16:31 < SDuensin> Oh!  Amazing!  I get IE7 on March 15th!
16:31  * SDuensin can't stand stupid corporate America.
16:31 <+bartjol> eeeh, where are you located?
16:31  * bartjol means : where in time
16:32 <+bartjol> and they're not going for the full ie8 in one go?
16:32 < SDuensin> In time?  2010.  :-P
16:32 < SDuensin> Government contractor dude.  I'm surprised I get 7.
16:32 < SDuensin> (Although I already have 8 and Chrome on my machine.)
16:33 <+bartjol> it is an improvement, and soon I will get the browser choice screen microsoft update
16:33 <+bartjol> european regulations++
16:33 < SDuensin> hehe
16:38 <+bartjol> mmm, 500 karma left to spend from my pile of karma
16:40 <+bartjol> and, I spend it all
16:40 < SDuensin> Got an odd question...  Ever lock down WebGUI pages based on the browser's user-agent?
16:40 <+bartjol> well, I wanted to one time, but I never came around to do so
16:41 <+bartjol> actually, when using ie, i wanted to show a solitair jumping cards video and a text: use another browser, or go play games
16:42 < SDuensin> I'm building a rather interesting service and wanted to use WebGUI to provide a lot of the generic functions (user management, billing, forums, etc) but I don't want them being accessed outside my custom client.
16:42 < SDuensin> Hehe
16:42 <+bartjol> mmm, that does a bit like monopolising
16:43 < SDuensin> I used to embed a script in all my sites that helped people get away from IE6 if they were using it.  Then the bastards at Microsoft bought the domain that was doing the anti-IE6 campaign and took the script down!
16:43 <+bartjol> what, even microsoft wants people to upgrade, stupid mrrpprgfffpowhfp
16:44 < SDuensin> Well, I'm not going to lock down the entire site.  Just the pages that require my browser to properly render.
16:46 <+bartjol> and when they use the wrong browser they got redirected to a site that says, please use <my browser> for viewing this page
16:46 <+bartjol> ?
16:46 < SDuensin> No, just back to the home page of the site.
16:46 <+bartjol> well, that are details
16:47 < SDuensin> Only way they'd ever even be able to try and access one of those custom browser pages with a different browser is if they're poking around and doing things they shouldn't be doing.  :-)
16:48 <+bartjol> eeeh, I am think of a contenthandler that sets scratch variable, and when it exists on the page there is a macro that redirects you
16:48 <+bartjol> but that may be to late
16:48 <+bartjol> you'l get a blink of the scrteen
16:49 < SDuensin> What about even before WebGUI gets it?  Make Apache do the filtering?
16:49 <+bartjol> off course, but I was thinking more generically
16:50 < SDuensin> Generic is good.  :-)
16:50 <+bartjol> because, you'll have to set each url
16:50 <+bartjol> my way, you can make a template:
16:50 <+bartjol> <tmpl_if my_scratch>then redirect<tmpl_else>all my cool html</tmpl_if>
16:51 <+bartjol> but
16:51 < SDuensin> Interesting.
16:51 <+bartjol> problem
16:51 <+bartjol> you only want to do that once per session
16:51 <+bartjol> so
16:52 <+bartjol> only at first access
16:52 < SDuensin> Where would "my_scratch" come from?
16:53 <+bartjol> the first request in of the session must call the method to set it
16:54 <+bartjol> which requests meddling in the session code
16:54 <+bartjol> eq "undesirable"
16:54 < SDuensin> Yea.  That'd be bad.
16:55 <+bartjol> don\'t fiddle with session or die;
16:55 <+bartjol> well
16:56 < SDuensin> I'd rather tweak Apache than WebGUI code.
16:56 <+bartjol> yeah
16:56 <+bartjol> thinking of a contenthandler that always is called, but does nothing if sessioncookie exists
16:56 <+bartjol> that already sounds better\
16:57 < SDuensin> For the most part, I can just "hide" the URLs.  However, I know some goober out there is going to snoop them with a proxy of some kind and go poking around.
16:57 <+bartjol> but you'll have to set each apache request to use that handler, and also be able to caal other handlers
16:57 <+bartjol> arg
16:58 <+bartjol> people like me
16:58 < SDuensin> What about just using rewrite to bounce requests targeted for a specific sub-folder of the site?
16:58 <+bartjol> in apache?
16:58 < SDuensin> Yea
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16:59 < SDuensin> Hey perlDreamer 
16:59 <+perlDreamer> morning, SDuensin
16:59 <+bartjol> well, during thinking of other solutions, this is starting to sound better and better
16:59 <+perlDreamer> what's up?
16:59 < SDuensin> bartjol - hehe
16:59 <+bartjol> SD wants to lock out ie6 users
16:59 < SDuensin> perlDreamer - Trying to make WebGUI do things it's not intended to do.  :-)
16:59 <+perlDreamer> et tu, SD?
16:59 < SDuensin> Actually, I want to lock out *ALL* standard browser users.
17:00 <+perlDreamer> why?
17:00 < SDuensin> You're in the USA, right?  Ever hear of "Steam"?
17:00 <+perlDreamer> Yeah, some game company, right?
17:01 < SDuensin> Well, Valve is the company.  Steam is their client.  But yea...
17:01 < SDuensin> Basically, half their client is delivered as HTML.  Makes it very easy for them to update content...
17:01 < SDuensin> I'm doing the same thing and don't want non-client users poking around on the special pages intended to be rendered inside the client software.
17:03 <+perlDreamer> should be very easy to do
17:03 <+perlDreamer> add browser rejection via a URL Handler
17:03 < SDuensin> So enlighten us, oh master.  :-P
17:03  * perlDreamer will ponder briefly
17:03 <+perlDreamer> it was a very long night last night for support calls
17:04 < SDuensin> NP
17:04 < SDuensin> No rush.  Domain isn't even online yet.
17:04 < SDuensin> This is a brand-spankin' new project.
17:10 <+perlDreamer> I think the best way to do this is actually via Apache
17:11 <+perlDreamer> where you put rules in the vhost section that requires a certain client to access the site
17:11 < SDuensin> That's what I was thinking.  Just wanted more opinions.
17:11 < SDuensin> And it's not even the entire site - just a branch of it.
17:16 <+bartjol> oh, I thought it were some random pages throuhout
17:16 <+bartjol> a branche makes it better
17:16 < SDuensin> Nope.  I can contain them into one area.
17:17  * bartjol is getting very good at thinking of too complicated solutions
17:17 < SDuensin> Hehe
17:17 < SDuensin> You might be perfect for this project!
17:17 <+bartjol> well, you can hire me probably
17:17 < SDuensin> Sure.  I pay $0 a day.
17:18 <+bartjol> ah, Koen will not agree with that
17:18 <+bartjol> how much by the hour?
17:18 <+perlDreamer> $0/8
17:18 < SDuensin> :-)
17:19 <+bartjol> that would be a very nice cooperation, I think of too complicated solutions all day, and you'll do it with the easy one in 5 minutes
17:29 <+perlDreamer> are you going to submit a WUC talk, bartjol?
17:30 <+bartjol> well
17:30 <+bartjol> I'd like to, but
17:31 <+bartjol> not sure whether I can come yet
17:31 <+bartjol> I'd actually thought of webgui cluster building
17:31 <+bartjol> which might be a bit too easy maybe
17:31 <+bartjol> and to linux focussed
17:32 < SDuensin> Bah.  Who cares about Windows hippies.  :-)
17:32 <+bartjol> or apples
17:32 <+perlDreamer> I wouldn't worry about linux focus, few people run WebGUI on windows anymore
17:32 <+bartjol> yeah
17:32 <+bartjol> well
17:32 <+bartjol> first see whether I can come
17:33 <+bartjol> some organisational limits I'm bumping into
17:39 <+perlDreamer> I think someone spammed the Czech translation on the server
17:40 <+bartjol> may very well be
17:41 <+perlDreamer> try translating the notes.txt file
17:43 <+bartjol> mmm, what is submitted looks quite normal to me
17:44 <+bartjol> are it not just the files being added?
17:45 <+perlDreamer> no, some of the files have actually been translated, and they're okay
17:45 <+perlDreamer> brb, have to take kids to school
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17:55 <+perlDreamer> back
17:55 < SDuensin> Me too.  :-)
17:55  * SDuensin lost his tether.  Thanks, AT&T.
18:07 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r953df35 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/GalleryAlbum.pm : Remove duplicate accessor method. -
18:07  * bartjol knows that html is not css and has done his best to brak the news in a subtle manner
18:07 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3ea797b / (7 files in 2 dirs): Wobject tests, through letter M. - http://bit.ly/bLH3MC
18:08 <+perlDreamer> bartjol: who is the recipient of the bad news?
18:10 <+bartjol> a very well appreciated colleague of mr patspam
18:11 <+bartjol> well everybody's got his own comfort zone
18:14 <+perlDreamer> I need some bash command line help
18:14 <+perlDreamer> I want to do this:
18:14 <+perlDreamer> for file in (`ls /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject`) do; cp template $file; done
18:15 < SDuensin> So do it.  :-)
18:15 < SDuensin> May want to toss a "-1" (dash one) behind the ls.
18:15 <+perlDreamer> -1 ?
18:15 <+bartjol> small L>
18:17 <+perlDreamer> whenever I've piped ls into anything, it's always done that for 
18:17 <+perlDreamer> me
18:19 < SDuensin> "dash one" just gives a list of filenames, no other output.
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18:23 <+perlDreamer> time to take some time to read Ovid's complete Test::Class tutorial
18:23 <+perlDreamer> because there must be an easier way than listing each test class in the run script
18:32 <+bartjol> mmm, custom workflow giving errors
18:34 <+bartjol> debug code can be removed after debugging
18:35 <+perlDreamer> or use $session->log->debug('debug comment');
18:36 <+perlDreamer> then you can leave it in, and enable it via log.conf
18:36 <+bartjol> well, i just made a comment to see whther it run at all
18:36 <+bartjol> it does apparently
18:37 <+bartjol> just a bit lazy
18:38 <+bartjol> ok, now for Unable to load WebGUI::i18n::English::Dutch
18:39 <+MrHairgrease> The correct class name for that module would be WebGUI::i18n::Denglish
18:40 <+perlDreamer> You sure it isn't WebGUI::i18n::Engutch?
18:40 <+MrHairgrease> No, we call the Anglified Dutch Denglish in the NL
18:41 <+MrHairgrease> Just like we have Chinglish for Chinese-English
18:41 <+bartjol> I'm not doing that translation as well
18:41 <+MrHairgrease> holy crap
18:41 <+MrHairgrease> both perldreamer and patspam commenting on blogs.perl.com!
18:41 <+perlDreamer> huh?
18:41 <+perlDreamer> who, me?
18:42 <+MrHairgrease> yeah you
18:42 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re0e71a5 / t/run_asset.t : Add Navigation, Poll, ProjectManager to run script. - http://bit.ly/9PQGEz
18:42 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8209de7 / (23 files in 4 dirs): Add tests for most other wobjects. Block broken code in Role/Asset/Comments. Refactor run_asset.t - http://bit.ly/cV7l7P
18:42 <+MrHairgrease> on the 100% test coverage thread
18:42 <+perlDreamer> yeah, 100% test coverage is misleading
18:42 <+perlDreamer> I wrote 2000 tests in the last 3 days
18:42 <+MrHairgrease> wow
18:42 <+MrHairgrease> you have been busy...
18:42 <+perlDreamer> I cheated
18:42 <+perlDreamer> I used Test::Class
18:44 <+bartjol> mmm i tried loading dutch twice
18:44 <+MrHairgrease> double ducth
18:44 <+bartjol> it sure is
18:45 <+perlDreamer> where is patspam's comment on blogs.perl.org?
18:45 <+MrHairgrease> http://blogs.perl.org/users/sawyer_x/2010/03/measuring-the-progress-of-ui.html#comments
18:45 <+MrHairgrease> last comments
18:45 <+MrHairgrease> s/s//
18:49 <+bartjol> so long, it's beer o clock
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18:55 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2997471 / (3 files in 3 dirs): fix assetName calls for Asset and Wobject. - http://bit.ly/auNa6s
18:56 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf56523c / lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Wobject.pm : add lastUpdated stamp for mobile style labels. - http://bit.ly/9Tewlr
18:56 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rc57e40e / lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Wobject.pm : add lastUpdated stamp for mobile style labels. - http://bit.ly/b97AIA
19:01 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r85121c5 / (98 files in 8 dirs): Move Test::Asset* to Test::WebGUI::Asset* - http://bit.ly/bkHoqU
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06:49 < elnino> good evening!
06:49 < elnino> I'm trying to implement this: http://javascript.internet.com/miscellaneous/browser-correct-download-instructions.html
06:49 < elnino> but instead of getting the strings that I'm supposed to be getitng, I get: /*<![CDATA[*//*]]>*/ as the output
06:50 < elnino> I created a snippet to create the download.js, cache 1 second
06:50 < elnino> type javascript/text
06:50 < elnino> and put the script in the head
06:50 < elnino> and then copied the call to the function in another snippet, cache 1 sec.
06:50 < elnino> I've done things like this before, but getting CDATA is throwin gme for a loop.
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16:55 < CIA-58> WebGUI: translation * r12453 /translations/German/German/Asset_Survey.pm: Updating German on translation server
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18:32 < CIA-58> webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * rad176a9 / (4 files in 3 dirs): Ready to start thinking about IO bound delayed response -
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06:06 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf7589e6 / (48 files in 5 dirs): Refactoring to remove putting className into each test class. WIP. - http://bit.ly/9E5vxG
06:06 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r20507ee / (47 files in 5 dirs): Calculate class to load. Remove class method from each test file. Fix typos. - http://bit.ly/bGVefh
06:06 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r790ccbe / t/run_asset.t : Fix script to work and load the utility test module. - http://bit.ly/cxDw0I
06:06 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r41fffba / (46 files in 4 dirs): Remove FindBin from test class sub-modules. - http://bit.ly/ayCAOm
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06:23 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd4eae41 / t/tests/Test/WebGUI/Asset/File/GalleryFile/Photo.pm : Add a test for Photo - http://bit.ly/c2HWxl
06:27 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3a2f94f / (4 files): Test for some Sku's. - http://bit.ly/9JevaZ
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15:49 < CIA-58> wgdev: Graham Knop master * r38fba2d / (34 files in 11 dirs): update copyright year - http://bit.ly/bBJ2t6
15:49 < CIA-58> wgdev: Graham Knop master * r8dfd618 / lib/WGDev/Command/For/Each.pm : add for-each command - http://bit.ly/8Z4RJ6
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18:04 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rae31597 / t/tests/My/Test/Class.pm : Forgot the custom test subclass. - http://bit.ly/9PXPOr
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00:27 <+patspam> preaction: ping
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03:07 <@preaction> patspam: sup
03:07 <+patspam> I am knee-deep in psgi
03:07 <+patspam> about halfway through ripping out apache and re-psgi-ifying webgui8
03:08 <@preaction> yay
03:08 <+patspam> the really juicy question is what to do about streaming
03:09 <@preaction> okay, what's the problem and what are our options?
03:09 <+patspam> I'm tempted to steal the Tatsumaki approach, which supports both blocking streaming and asynchronous streaming, with a unified API
03:10 <+patspam> but I'm trying to be conservative
03:10 <@preaction> so the problem is our "ability" to stream files through WebGUI
03:10 <+patspam> just content at this stage, not files
03:10 <+patspam> e.g. ProgressBar
03:11 <@preaction> ahhh
03:11 <+patspam> e.g. for (1..10) { $session->output->print($_); sleep 1 }
03:11 <@preaction> well, that's a solution to a different problem. if there's another solution we can implement it will be fine
03:12 <+patspam> yeah true
03:14 <@preaction> i hate to go this way, but would tying ourselves to POE be a bad thing?
03:15 <@preaction> actually, JT might have some insight
03:15 <@preaction> he mentioned dealing with the async/blocking problem when developing SimpleDB::Class
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04:10 < CIA-58> webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * rb63d1eb / (6 files in 6 dirs): mid-way commit - http://bit.ly/aywoIR
04:10 < CIA-58> webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * r76d8ecf / (8 files in 7 dirs): Demo site loads - http://bit.ly/c0BVvB
04:10 <+patspam> preaction: I think using AnyEvent is the preferred approach
04:10 <+patspam> anyway, enough for today, talk more tomorrow
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15:19 < SDuensin> Greetings.
15:29 <+bartjol> might it oh, hi scott
15:37 <+bartjol> mmm, SDuensin, I submitted an rfe, but I'm wondering whether I wouldn't call it a bug
15:38 <+bartjol> mm, better ask colin later, he has the power to move that stuff
15:39 < SDuensin> I like bugs.  Bugs get fixed.  RFEs get whined over.  :-)
15:46 <+bartjol> well, missing POD might be considered a bug
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16:21 <+bartjol> morning colin
16:21 <+bartjol> I was wondering whether my rfe might be considered a bug: http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/11474
16:22 <+perlDreamer> definitely
16:22 <+perlDreamer> let's fix it now
16:22 <+perlDreamer> upload the docs you want, and we'll include it in the next WRE release
16:23 <+bartjol> ah
16:23 <+perlDreamer> this last batch of remodeling went very well
16:23 <+bartjol> cool
16:23 <+bartjol> pictures?
16:23 <+perlDreamer> forthcoming
16:24 <+bartjol> well, I've read the code a bit, but I'm not sure yet what the input should be exactly
16:25 <+bartjol> A line which says:
16:25 <+bartjol> # Put your dir names that should not be included in the backup below. Just the dir name and 1 per line.
16:25 <+bartjol> I'm not sure whether the path can be included
16:28 <+bartjol> reading wre:file.pm now
16:29 <+bartjol> ah
16:30 <+bartjol> I see, it uses the tar --exclude-from option
16:30 <+bartjol> so patterns are excluded
16:35 <+bartjol> something like: # Put in patterns, one per line, that should not be included in the backup. These options are passed into the --exclude-from option from tar. Therefore a complete path is not needed.
16:37 <+perlDreamer> will it exclude lines with comments in there, or do they need to be stripped out?
16:37 <+bartjol> yeah, I was wondering that
16:38 <+perlDreamer> maybe we should put it into the POD for backup.pl, if there is any?
16:38 <+bartjol> well, backup.pl --help doesn't do anything, I'll have a look
16:39 <+bartjol> hmpg: :~$ perldoc /data/wre/sbin/backup.pl
16:39 <+bartjol> No documentation found for "/data/wre/sbin/backup.pl".
16:40 <+perlDreamer> since it's in the WRE, we should assign it to SynQhome
16:41 <+bartjol> added a note with the proposed comment (slightly altered)
16:41 <+bartjol> he isn't at home
16:41 <+bartjol> I changed the wiki on the site
16:42 <+perlDreamer> if you have a bit, can you try to duplicate this bug: http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11473
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16:42 <+perlDreamer> I don't know how he's doing it, but I'm not able to hit it in 7.9
16:42 <+bartjol> sure
16:46 <+bartjol> mmm, at first I cannot reproduce it either
16:46 <+perlDreamer> martien's bug hit rate is about 60% (subjectively), and he runs custom code in the core
16:46 <+bartjol> aaah wait
16:46 <+perlDreamer> going to have to discount this one, probably, or ask him how he does that
16:46 <+bartjol> I have seen that
16:46 <+perlDreamer> brb, have to take kids to school
16:57 <+bartjol> mmm, I believe it is the isDefault field in the template table
16:57 <+bartjol> which is 0 in the duplicated template
16:57 <+bartjol> but I have seen this behaviour
17:01 <+perlDreamer> I remember a bug about it, but it was a long time ago
17:01 <+perlDreamer> not in recent code
17:10 <+bartjol> mmm, I believe I mainly ignored those messages
17:10 <+bartjol> martien posted something
17:11 <+bartjol> ah, well, I must wait till 7.9.1
17:15 <+perlDreamer> it's a duplicate of an earlier bug, #11459
17:16 <+perlDreamer> the upgrade to 7.9.0 marked every template as duplicate by accident
17:16 <+perlDreamer> which was the opposite of the upgrade to 7.8.0, which marked no new templates added by WebGUI as duplicates.
17:17 <+bartjol> ah
17:18 <+perlDreamer> and I think I've fixed both problems from here on out
17:19 <+bartjol> duplicate? not default?
17:21 <+bartjol> why should a template been marked as duplicate anyway, from the duplication on, it is just an asset
17:21 <+perlDreamer> sorry, not as duplicates, but as default
17:23 <+bartjol> you're just trying to confuse me
17:25  * perlDreamer is sleep deprived due to daylight savings changes
17:29 <+bartjol> was that this weekend?
17:30 < SDuensin> yup
17:30 <+perlDreamer> ugh, yes
17:31 < SDuensin> I say we all boycott when they try and change back.
17:31 <+perlDreamer> yeah, why go back to daylight wasting time?
17:31 < SDuensin> I have no idea dude.  Government decision.
17:34 <+bartjol> we first have to get rid of timezones
17:40 <+bartjol> daylight saving only starts at the 28th of march
17:42 <+perlDreamer> President Bush extended it, so that it starts earlier and goes later in the year for us
17:43 <+bartjol> what a genius mind
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17:50 < SDuensin> I'm rocketing into the future today!  I get XP Service Pack 3!
18:05 <+perlDreamer> watch out for whiplash, SDuensin
18:06 < SDuensin> IE7, here I come!
18:09 <+bartjol> you employer doesn't really care about safety, does he SDuensin?
18:10 < SDuensin> My employer is a contractor to the government.  Stupid is as stupid does.
18:42 <+perlDreamer> bartjol, bunch of calendar i18n coming your way tomorrow
18:43 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rce08b3d / lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Wobject.pm : Fix a syntax error in the wobject i18n file. - http://bit.ly/aTh6C5
18:43 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rc4b3e1e / (3 files in 3 dirs): Add the calendar month template variables. Fixes bug #11472. - http://bit.ly/cIk03W
18:44 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * re4299c6 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Add the calendar month template variables. Fixes bug #11472. - http://bit.ly/dmIoF8
18:44 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r1637840 / lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Wobject.pm : Fix a syntax error in the wobject i18n file. - http://bit.ly/9o7D0N
18:46 <+bartjol> ah
18:46 <+bartjol> np
18:46 <+perlDreamer> 8-12 new entries, and 4 edits
18:48 <+bartjol> there goes my morning
18:48 <+bartjol> at least, half an hour of it
18:48 <+bartjol> maybe
18:49 <+perlDreamer> I can make some tweaks to the transalation CGI if you want it to take more time
18:51 <+bartjol> no thanks
18:51 <+perlDreamer> as you wish
18:51 <+bartjol> I finally spend all ning's karma
18:52 <+bartjol> and, does backup.pl already has POD?
18:52 <+perlDreamer> no
18:53 <+bartjol> why not?
18:54 <+bartjol> and now?
18:54 <+perlDreamer> because you haven't written it yet?
18:54 <+perlDreamer> :)
18:54 <+bartjol> ah
18:54 <+bartjol> well, there I go
18:54 <+perlDreamer> that's why we should file a bug and assign it to SynQ
18:54 <+bartjol> I can do that at home tonight
18:56 <+perlDreamer> do you have commit access to that repo?
18:57 <+bartjol> of copurse not
18:57 <+bartjol> but I can make it, and give it to someone who does
18:57 <+bartjol> I don have any commit access
18:59 <+perlDreamer> post it as a bug, or drop me an email and it will be added
19:00 <+bartjol> can you move rfe? to bug status, and assign it to me
19:00 <+bartjol> ?
19:00 <+bartjol> that link I pasted
19:02 <+perlDreamer> yes
19:03 <+bartjol> excellent
19:06 <+bartjol> well, I suppose it? feeding time
19:06 <+bartjol> I must change my keyboard settings...
19:08 <+bartjol> pod writing  tonight
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19:25 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r4fa04a2 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix CSS and HTML errors in the Event Edit template. Fixes bug #11471. - http://bit.ly/dw2WMV
19:26 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5869cfe / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : Proper bug annotation. - http://bit.ly/dxCJAN
19:27 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r5efa9bc / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix CSS and HTML errors in the Event Edit template. Fixes bug #11471. - http://bit.ly/bnuK6B
19:27 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rea3d7e0 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : Proper bug annotation. - http://bit.ly/aGEf0o
19:27 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r5463f96 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Move the package to the right directory - http://bit.ly/dddnGK
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20:22 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r0a00583 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetPackage.pm): Force inheritPermissionsFromParent to work in all import scenarios. Also, fix handling of clearPackageFlag and setDefaultTemplate. - http://bit.ly/aSiDVR
20:22 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rb526340 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetPackage.pm): Force inheritPermissionsFromParent to work in all import scenarios. Also, fix handling of clearPackageFlag and setDefaultTemplate. - http://bit.ly/bDzpR7
20:41 <+perlDreamer> deleting a remote tag is surprisingly difficult
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21:04 <@Haarg> really?
21:05 <@Haarg> can't you just git push origin :tag-name ?
21:10 <+perlDreamer> nope
21:10 <+perlDreamer> oh, wait
21:10 <+perlDreamer> I didn't try with a colon
21:10 <+perlDreamer> I had to do this:  git push origin :refs/tags/v7.8.13
21:11 <+perlDreamer> but I didn't try git push origin :v7.8.13
21:12 <+perlDreamer> bopbop: why do you think there should be a red X next to the attachment in a post?
21:13 <@bopbop> because otherwise I have to save the post in order to get it to delete
21:13 <@bopbop> so it gets emailed out again
21:13 <@bopbop> then I have to edit, reattach, and save again
21:13 <+perlDreamer> the X used to be there?
21:13 <@bopbop> so it gets emailed out yet again
21:13 <@bopbop> I believe so
21:13 <@bopbop> before, you confirmed you wanted to delete the attachment then clicked the red X
21:14 <@bopbop> the attachment went away and the browse field returned
21:14 <@bopbop> all in the same screen... no saving
21:14 <+perlDreamer> I'll start checking old versions and see what happened
21:14 <@bopbop> check in 7.5ish
21:15 <+perlDreamer> okay, it's not in 7.6 for sure
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21:17 <+perlDreamer> No X in 7.5.40
21:18 <+perlDreamer> but there is an X next to an article
21:18 <+perlDreamer> article attachment
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21:20 <+perlDreamer> hm, but there's a note about it being removed
21:20 <+perlDreamer> from the Post
21:21 <+perlDreamer> apparently I pulled it out because it bypasses revision control
21:21 <+perlDreamer> but that's the rub
21:21 <+perlDreamer> if it starts obeying revision control again, then it will send out notices when the attachments are updated
21:22 <+perlDreamer> bopbop: this is the bug in question: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/9260
21:23 <@bopbop> well, I think it was a mistake
21:23 <@bopbop> I don't think it needs to be deleted from the uploads directory
21:23 <@bopbop> just the cs post
21:24 <+perlDreamer> the cs post stores its attachments in the uploads directory
21:24 <+perlDreamer> all attachments go in there
21:24 <@bopbop> well, I can go ahead and do it how it has to be done now, I just don't appreciate the backlash from the users who are going to email me with "stop spamming my email" replies
21:24 <@bopbop> after they get the email three times so I can change the image
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21:25 <+perlDreamer> try changing the commit workflow to commit with approval
21:25 <+perlDreamer> that may not send out the notification until it's approved
21:25 <+perlDreamer> and would let you edit it several times
21:26 <@bopbop> alright... I understand why this particular person wanted it changed, but I think the "fix" had larger implications for other users
21:29 <+perlDreamer> We can always ask Doug to look at the larger situation and decide if we should change it.
21:30  * perlDreamer goes for a run
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23:21 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r16a2e4e / www/extras/wobject/Survey/editsurvey.js : Fix some more surve JS i18n. - http://bit.ly/9Y815T
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23:31 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r6e5a437 / www/extras/wobject/Survey/editsurvey.js : Fix some more surve JS i18n. - http://bit.ly/bRXmyf
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14:23 < Edlik> can anyone recommend a free hosting service for webGUI or does anyone know if 000webhost.com can host it? I havent been able to find out what os they use.
14:25 <+bartjol> ah
14:25 <+bartjol> well, there aren't many free webgui hosters I'm afraid
14:25 <+bartjol> I don't know about 000webhost.com
14:26 <+bartjol> root access isn't mentioned
14:28 <+bartjol> So Edlik, I'm afraid you'll have to look somewhere else
14:34 <+bartjol> you at least will have to go for the 5$/month, ssh access is included
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15:31 < SDuensin> Morning.
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15:49 <+bartjol> hey scott
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17:15 <+perlDreamer> good morning, good WebGUI folks
17:22 <+bartjol> hi
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17:39 <+bartjol> perlDreamer: I'd like somefeedback on the implementation of the documentation I made
17:40 <+perlDreamer> did you want informed feedback, or do you want me to wing it?
17:40 <+bartjol> eeeh,  the first sounds better, but "wing it" is unfamiliar to me
17:41 <+bartjol> if it means "take over from you" that's ok ofcourse :P
17:41 <+bartjol> no, I'll finish the stuff
17:41 <+perlDreamer> wing it == shoot from the hip == improvise
17:42 <+perlDreamer> for the wre.conf examples, this is what I would do
17:42 <+perlDreamer> I would describe each option stand alone, which no hash syntax
17:42 <+bartjol> I, I improvised
17:42 <+bartjol> ah
17:42 <+perlDreamer> then I would show a sample pieice of wre.conf in the correct format
17:43 <+bartjol> so a bit like I did, but without the out-of-place hash syntax
17:43 <+bartjol> and an examle
17:43 <+bartjol> well, it is better than it was
17:44 <+perlDreamer> totally
17:44 <+perlDreamer> just having the POD is 80% of the solution
17:45 <+perlDreamer> in fact, I can take what you wrote and do the tweaking that I'm suggesting
17:45 <+perlDreamer> sound okay?
17:47 <+bartjol> oh, well
17:47 <+bartjol> depends whether you're looking for work or not
17:48 <+bartjol> maybe for just one
17:48 <+bartjol> so we have a nice cooperated example
17:48 <+bartjol> and I can alter the rest of the scripts in wre/sbin
17:48 <+bartjol> from POD view those are crap
17:49 <+perlDreamer> okay, I'll do the backup one and commit it
17:49 <+bartjol> great
17:50 <+bartjol> I won't have the time for it till thursday
17:54 <+perlDreamer> okay
17:54 <+bartjol> but it is missing for years
17:55 <+bartjol> I dunno when the next official release of the wre will be
17:55 <+bartjol> I should ask Koen I suppose
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17:56 <+bartjol> he Tiler Parker
17:59 <+perlDreamer> bartjol, maybe instead of putting wre.conf POD into lots of scripts, we should make one POD file for the whole wre.conf, and only document script options in each script?
18:01 <+bartjol> I agree that the explanations might as well be in the conf
18:01 <+bartjol> only, even with no options, you'll need a redirect from the POD of the script files
18:01 <+perlDreamer> yes, we'll have to say something like
18:01 <+perlDreamer> please see the BACKUP options part of wre.conf.pod
18:02 <+bartjol> very large
18:02 <+bartjol> that'd be ok
18:02 <+perlDreamer> I'll pull the wre.conf stuff out of backup.pl, and start a wre.conf.pod file
18:02 <+perlDreamer> then we can add to it pieces when needed
18:03 <+bartjol> ah, that wre.conf file pod will be large :)
18:08 < CIA-58> wrebuild: Colin Kuskie master * r9250085 / wre/sbin/backup.pl : Add baseline POD to backup.pl - http://bit.ly/dtZB6d
18:08 <+perlDreamer> okay, POD added
18:08 < CIA-58> wrebuild: Colin Kuskie master * r1f146da / wre/sbin/wre.conf.pod : Begin documenting the wre.conf file. - http://bit.ly/cClgyr
18:10 <+bartjol> cool
18:15  * perlDreamer goes to the gym.  I'll add the other files when I come back
18:16 <+bartjol> oh well, I have to go too
18:16 <+bartjol> I'll see the results, but don't overdo it
18:16 <+perlDreamer> yes, sir!
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19:46 < CIA-58> wrebuild: Colin Kuskie master * r78edb05 / (wre/sbin/logrotate.pl wre/sbin/wreconsole.pl): Add POD to logrotate and wreconsole scripts. - http://bit.ly/bNevDR
20:05 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rfb14f13 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Layout.pm): Add labels to the Layout templates so they show up in Shortcut overrides. Fixes bug #11476. - http://bit.ly/cYdKzw
20:05 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r2465da4 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Layout.pm): Add labels to the Layout templates so they show up in Shortcut overrides. Fixes bug #11476. - http://bit.ly/ddqrDa
20:21 < CIA-58> webgui: Graham Knop master * r1919973 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post/Thread.pm): fixed: Unable to add threads with permission to edit CS but not in post group - http://bit.ly/bafugN
20:21 < CIA-58> webgui: Graham Knop webgui-7.8 * r34967f7 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post/Thread.pm): fixed: Unable to add threads with permission to edit CS but not in post group - http://bit.ly/9Sf1tT
20:28 <+perlDreamer> nice find, haarg
20:43 <@Haarg> i finally added a thing to wgdev for running across multiple sites
20:44 <@Haarg> so if you had a package to install on every site, you can do wgd for-each --exec="wgd package -i ~/fix.wgpkg"
20:46 <+perlDreamer> nice!
20:46 <+perlDreamer> I really want to install wgd on the servers I have to maintain
20:47 <+perlDreamer> at least for the ease of saying wgd db --config myConfig.conf
20:47 <+perlDreamer> I hate having to find the db auth info in the config files
20:48 <@Haarg> ./Build distexec && scp wgd-v0.5.0 server:wgd
20:48 <@Haarg> i usually end up sticking the single-file version on servers i'm working on
20:48 <+perlDreamer> it's not the mechanics, it's the permissions issue
20:49 <@Haarg> how so?
20:49 <+perlDreamer> well, I just don't know whether or not I'm allowed to install software on the sites that I maintain
20:49 <@Haarg> ah
20:50 <@Haarg> well, that's why i just stick it leaving it in my home directory
20:50 <+perlDreamer> that would work
20:51 <+perlDreamer> did you get my reply about Paths?
20:52 <@Haarg> i got a reply and responded
20:53 <+perlDreamer> so for people who are not WRE users (and there seem to be more and more of these), they'd just need to setup PERL5LIB themselves
20:53 <@Haarg> yes
20:53 <+perlDreamer> in that case, I don't have any other questions or issues
20:53 <+perlDreamer> just impatient to get it!
20:53 <@Haarg> and the apache config would need to be adjusted somewhat
20:53 <@Haarg> but it's basically just setting the perl include path
20:54 <@Haarg> instead of setting the WebGUI root path
20:54 <+perlDreamer> that's not bad.  It should be in the migration instructions
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21:07 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r9810b57 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix double slash removal in FilePump macro. Fixes bug #11478. - http://bit.ly/b1jv9I
21:09 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r01267d2 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix double slash removal in FilePump macro. Fixes bug #11478. - http://bit.ly/d6vqcb
21:27 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf8dba07 / lib/WebGUI/FilePump/Bundle.pm : Remove debug code from FilePump. - http://bit.ly/dpz1QR
21:27 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r57f9f8e / lib/WebGUI/FilePump/Bundle.pm : Remove debug code from FilePump. - http://bit.ly/cASCTJ
21:30 <+patspam> perlDreamer++
21:30 <+perlDreamer> thanks man :)
21:30 <+perlDreamer> It had me day dreaming about a small, slow, pure perl HTTP daemon that I could use for writing live WebGUI tests
21:30 <+patspam> it's here!
21:31 <+patspam> the psgi branch + Plack::Test
21:31 <+perlDreamer> psgi branch?  Not PlebGUI?
21:32 <+patspam> the psgi branch is branched off wg8
21:32 <+patspam> with apache ripped out altogether
21:32 <+perlDreamer> I see.
21:32 <+patspam> it's about 1/3rd done
21:33 <+perlDreamer> so, in wg8 we will have live testing goodness, but for now we live with the sweet dreams and devious testing plans
21:34 <+patspam> it's a true story
21:35 <+perlDreamer> have you seen the recent Test::Class work in the wg8 branch?
21:36 <+patspam> no - I haven't had time to look at wg8 at all
21:36 <+perlDreamer> I'm 90% done with setting up a framework for testing base asset methods in every asset.
21:36 <+patspam> awesome
21:37 <+perlDreamer> Ovid's Test::Class tutorial helped a lot
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22:38 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r90cd1ac / docs/upgrades/packages-7.9.1/root_import_survey_default-survey-edit.wgpkg : change connect to connection in the edit survey template.
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23:05  * perlDreamer heads out to pick up kids from school
23:42 <+perlDreamer> oy
--- Day changed Wed Mar 17 2010
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01:58 <+perlDreamer> later, everyone :)
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03:30 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * ra7b4fbc / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix thread search URLs when threads are archived, or trashed. Location in the pagination is now found by interrupted linear search. - http://bit.ly/cRYQIL
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03:53 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r1126228 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix thread search URLs when threads are archived, or trashed. Location in the pagination is now found by interrupted linear search. - http://bit.ly/bIctZD
03:53 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r47bd383 / t/Asset/Wobject/Matrix.t : Always skip the autocommit. Did this in response to an unrepeatable test failure. - http://bit.ly/bsr1XR
03:53 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r570cdfd / t/Asset/Wobject/Matrix.t : Always skip the autocommit. Did this in response to an unrepeatable test failure. - http://bit.ly/b94Buc
03:56 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rbe8fe94 / docs/upgrades/packages-7.8.15/root_import_survey_default-survey-edit.wgpkg : Fix a bad path in included YUI JS. connect => connection - http://bit.ly/9HFUym
03:57 <+perlDreamer> yo, tavisto
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05:04 <+patspam> WebGUI::Definition::Meta::Class::get_attributes line 157 spent  4.90s making 104600 calls to Class::MOP::Class::find_attribute_by_name
05:05 <+patspam> (that's for 100 requests)
05:17 <+patspam> measuring across 100 requests to the front page of the default site, half the response time is spent in WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Navigation::view
05:27 < CIA-58> webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * r1080d3a / lib/WebGUI.pm : WebGUI is now a one-liner ;) - http://bit.ly/a3y3uB
05:28 <+patspam> starting a local webgui server is now reduced to: plackup -MWebGUI -e 'WebGUI->new'
05:29 <+patspam> or: plackup -MWebGUI -e 'WebGUI->new("site.com.conf")'
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05:35 < CIA-58> webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * r41d84c3 / (etc/dev.localhost.localdomain.psgi benchmark.pl): Added benchmark script for NYTProf-ing - http://bit.ly/bzl5yQ
05:37 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r1ca8dc1 / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.8.15 release. - http://bit.ly/dp2A6L
05:41 <+perlDreamer> mmmm, placky goodness
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06:07 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * re5c786e / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.8.16 development cycle. - http://bit.ly/crM3AD
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15:09 < SquOnk> Greetings.
15:10 < SquOnk> I found a .DS_Store file in the released tarball :/
15:10 < SquOnk> lib/WebGUI/i18n/Dutch/.DS_Store
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15:43 < SDuensin> Greetings.
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17:40 < SDuensin> Quiet today.
17:47 <+perlDreamer> very
17:57 < SDuensin> They must all know I have odd questions to ask and are HIDING!
17:58 <+perlDreamer> I fear thee not
17:59 < SDuensin> Good.  :-)
17:59 < SDuensin> I need to do a single-sign on from WebGUI to another system.
18:06 <+perlDreamer> can the other system do remote database queries for Auth?
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19:50 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin, did you see my earlier question back about SSO?
19:51 < SDuensin> Yes, the other system can query the MySQL database.  However, I don't want to just auth against the data from WebGUI, I want to know if the user is logged *in* on WebGUI.
19:54 <+perlDreamer> why?
19:55 < SDuensin> Because it's the auth provider.  Guess it doesn't have to be.
19:58 <+perlDreamer> being able to authenticate against WebGUI is different from knowing whether or not the user is currently logged into WebGUI
19:58 <+perlDreamer> that's meta info, and not really related to the question of Auth
19:59 <+perlDreamer> like OpenID.  It doesn't care if I'm logged into Google or Yahoo or whatever
19:59 <+perlDreamer> it just verifies I am who I am
19:59 <+perlDreamer> or who I claim to be
20:00 < SDuensin> Yea, we'll forget that part.
20:03 <+perlDreamer> it's cool that you get to do some WebGUI work.  Is it related to $dayJob?
20:03 < SDuensin> I've leeched off the WebGUI auth database before.  I just hate poking around under the hood.
20:03 < SDuensin> No.  $dayJob is too brain dead for decent software.
20:04 < SDuensin> But this could become $dayJob if the ad revenue kicks in. 
20:04 < SDuensin> Some friends and I are building a Steam knock-off for classic games.
20:05 <+perlDreamer> your other option is to try the experimental OpenID stuff from The Bazaar, and have WebGUI be an OpenID provider
20:05 <+perlDreamer> I know it will authenticate against OpenID, but I don't know if it will work the other way around
20:05 < SDuensin> Eh, I don't like OpenID.  itsWay@tooClunky.com
20:06 <+perlDreamer> or, you could write a custom URL Handler that will return the status of Auth requests against WebGUI's Auth system
20:06 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, I'm at a dead end
20:07 < SDuensin> I was hoping to stick to a stable API, but the server code that needs to talk to it is in Java.
20:07 <+perlDreamer> I don't see any way to mix Moose Native Types and some kind of serialization Trait that also provides "handles" methods at the attribute level.
20:08 <+perlDreamer> I think I'm going to try the more straight forward route of mixing in another Role that works at the attribute meta level
20:10 <+perlDreamer> then I can say things like
20:10 <+perlDreamer> if ($attribute->does('WebGUI::Definition::Meta::Property::Serialize')) { $value = $attribute->serialize_value; }
20:14 <@Haarg> iirc i had problems with that
20:14 <@Haarg> does wasn't working on attribute metaclasses
20:14 <+perlDreamer> oy
20:14 <+perlDreamer> then I'll try using ->can
20:15 <+perlDreamer> did you file a bug about that?
20:16 <@Haarg> no
20:18  * perlDreamer chides Haarg about not being a good open source citizen
20:19 <@Haarg> it's one of those things i wasn't sure if it was intended, and we were also doing some odd things with metaclasses
20:21 <+perlDreamer> It would be a good way to find out just how dangerous we're being.
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22:25 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rb62c350 / lib/WebGUI/PerformanceProfiler.pm : Swap out Net::Subnets for Net::CIDR::Lite in PerformanceProfiler. - http://bit.ly/aFRWc7
22:25 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * re77b2b9 / lib/WebGUI/PerformanceProfiler.pm : Swap out Net::Subnets for Net::CIDR::Lite in PerformanceProfiler. - http://bit.ly/bpCfEQ
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23:21  * patspam looks at Alloy UI
23:22 <+patspam> (re RFE #10611)
23:22 < SDuensin> Alloy?
23:22 <+patspam> it's a component library for YUI 3
23:23  * SDuensin is a GWT fan himself.
23:23 <+patspam> secretly I want to ditch YUI for jQuery
23:23 <+patspam> but jQuery doesn't have a built in UI library either
23:24 < SDuensin> I used to like Ext until they went all license crazy.
23:24 <+patspam> yeah me too!
23:24 <+patspam> I convinced JT we should start using InputEx as a YUI forms library, but AlloyUI might be a better alternative
23:26  * patspam staggers off to recover after spending 2 hours on the phone to the IRS
23:26 < SDuensin> Ewww
23:27 < SDuensin> Oh.  It's from the Liferay people.  Interesting.
23:29 <+patspam> "Liferay Portal is an enterprise web platform for building business solutions that deliver immediate results and long-term value"
23:29 <+patspam> Product X is a product that delivers a product
23:30 < SDuensin> Yea, I know.  It's the only other thing I seriously considered along with WebGUI.  :-P
23:30 < SDuensin> It keeps poking it's nose into my life because of people gluing it to Alfresco.
23:31 <+patspam> ah, Java based
23:31 < SDuensin> To me, that's not a drawback.  :-P
23:32 <+patspam> their web design is really nice
23:33 < SDuensin> Liferay isn't bad.  Their security system tends to be over-thought and can cause problems.  Lots of stuff needs updated to work with their latest and greatest.  Overall though, it looks pretty powerful.
23:34 <+perlDreamer> mmm, yui Blog
23:35 <+perlDreamer> you've been holding out on us, patspam
23:35 <+patspam> I have?
23:35 < SDuensin> hehe
23:35 < SDuensin> Alloy looks nice.
23:35 < SDuensin> Especially that inline edit.  Hint, hint!
23:36 < SDuensin> Ok, the Liferay site is entirely different from when I last visited.
23:36 <+perlDreamer> I didn't know that WebGUI 8 was going to use YUI 3
23:36 <+perlDreamer> especially since very few of the components we use (like DataTable) were available in YUI3 last time I checked
23:37 <+patspam> I think you can use YUI2 components inside YUI3
23:38  * perlDreamer will read more and try not to be so ignorant
23:39 <@Haarg> so i was thinking about a better way to do upgrades
23:40 <+perlDreamer> PLEASE!
23:40 <@Haarg> http://github.com/haarg/webgui/tree/upgrades
23:40 <@Haarg> WebGUI::Upgrade is very rough, but enough to demonstrate my thoughts for upgrade scripts
23:41 < SDuensin> FOR THE LOVE OF GOD YES!
23:41 <@Haarg> specifically, http://github.com/haarg/webgui/blob/662e304b51698667a8de766e81a67d63d80a1dfb/var/upgrades/7.8.3-7.9.3/script2.pl
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23:42 <+patspam> the boilerplate will be fondly missed
23:42 < SDuensin> Not by me!
23:42 < SDuensin> FOOOOOOOOD!
23:42 <+patspam> heh I thought you liked Java?
23:42 <@Haarg> currently has config, session, report, done.  probably worth having dbh as well.  only initialized when used, so you could do perl stuff against dbh without a session getting created
23:43 < SDuensin> I do!  It's super easy to bolt things together with it.
23:43 <@Haarg> needs to also recognize wgpkg files, sql files
23:44 <@Haarg> probably some other file types
23:44 <+perlDreamer> we used to have separate SQL files, but then they were all merged together
23:44 <+perlDreamer> I don't remember the reason why they were merged
23:44 <+perlDreamer> but what's the advantage of having them separate?
23:45 <@Haarg> if you have a lot of sql it's just easier
23:45 <+perlDreamer> can we program in stop versions?
23:45 <@Haarg> probably needs something for that yes
23:49 <+perlDreamer> I don't get upgrade_file_pl
23:49 <@Haarg> how so?
23:49 <+perlDreamer> it just installs the script contents into the correct namespace?
23:49 <@Haarg> basically
23:49 <+perlDreamer> why do that vs "use WebGUI::Package::Script;"
23:50 <@Haarg> i don't quite follow
23:50 <@Haarg> use WebGUI::Package::Script; where?
23:50 <+perlDreamer> inside the actual scripts
23:50 <+perlDreamer> each script needs to be able to call report, session, done, etc.
23:51 <@Haarg> less boilerplate
23:52 <+perlDreamer> okay
23:54 <+perlDreamer> could we put the versions into scripts, instead of hardcoding them by name?
23:54 <+perlDreamer> it would make moving them between versions a lot easier
23:55 <@Haarg> i don't follow what you mean by putting versions into scripts
23:55 <+perlDreamer> right now, we figure out which scripts to run by looking at directory names
23:56 <+perlDreamer> and the directory names have versions number in them
23:56 <+perlDreamer> when I cherry pick between branches (major/minor WebGUI versions), they have to be renamed and/or moved
23:57 <+perlDreamer> never mind
23:57 <+perlDreamer> it's just shifting problems
23:57 <+perlDreamer> if we put the version information into the files, then you'd have to edit the files when they're moved
23:57 <+perlDreamer> which is probably easier than what we have today
23:57 <+perlDreamer> and doesn't work for packages
23:57 <@Haarg> i know that is annoying but i haven't figured out a good way to deal with it
--- Day changed Thu Mar 18 2010
00:01 <+perlDreamer> I think this will help
00:02 <+perlDreamer> since it'll be easier to move files around rather than merge subroutines between scripts
00:03 <@Haarg> and it will probably do better at merging if you are modifying existing upgrades
00:04 <@Haarg> any other file types you can think of or any other util subs for the scripts?
00:05 <+perlDreamer> the order the files in the directory are executed depends on their names?
00:05 <@Haarg> yes
00:06 <+perlDreamer> dbh would just be an alias for $session->db, so I wouldn't worry about that
00:06 <@Haarg> i was thinking of making it a raw DBI handle, bypassing WebGUI::SQL
00:07 <+perlDreamer> I don't suppose you've tucked a WebGUI::SQL refactor into your schedule, have you?
00:07 <@Haarg> not entirely
00:08 <@Haarg> got half way done with rewriting the logging
00:08 <@Haarg> so that raw dbi calls were logged just like our wrappers
00:08 <@Haarg> which would eliminate the only useful part of most of the wrappers
00:08 <+perlDreamer> totally
00:10 <+perlDreamer> I know I sound like a broken record, but it'd be way better to subclass DBI than wrap it
00:11 <@Haarg> i agree
00:14 <+perlDreamer> I think I've got a solution worked out for the JSON attributes.
00:14 <+perlDreamer> Start with a type, so that we can coerce data from the db into perl datastructures automatically
00:15 <+perlDreamer> then, we extend the Meta property and add a "serialize" attribute to it
00:15 <+perlDreamer> which signals to the write method to serialize the data by hand instead of taking the raw attribute value
00:17 <+perlDreamer> it'd be nice to extend Moose::Meta::Attribute::Native::Trait::Array to add some collateral handling functions
00:17 <+perlDreamer> but I can't find a way to extend any of the methods
00:17 <+perlDreamer> the list that is initialized is hardcoded
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00:48 <@Haarg> think it is worth making a util function somewhere for making a dbh based on a config file, or should i wait until WebGUI::SQL can be refactored to not need a session?
00:49 <+perlDreamer> I'd wait, it sounds like it's just a stop gap until the real work can be done
00:49 <+perlDreamer> any thoughts on my approach to JSON in the db?
00:50 <@Haarg> well, if i don't make a util function for it i have to copy-paste the code instead
00:50 <+perlDreamer> this if for WebGUI::Upgrade?
00:50 <@Haarg> yeah
00:50 <@Haarg> need to be able to connect to the database without creating a session
00:50 <+perlDreamer> ah
00:51 <+perlDreamer> I still think you should copy/paste it for now
00:51 <+perlDreamer> less testing
00:51 <@Haarg> with the json thing
00:52 <+perlDreamer> brb
00:52 <@Haarg> you are just thinking we have an extra property meta-attribute to flag a need for serialization
00:52 <@Haarg> and write handles all the heavy lifting?
00:52 <@Haarg> that seems good for now
00:53 <@Haarg> might consider trying to move it into the attributes somehow at some point, but i'm not sure there's really any advantage to doing that
00:54 <+perlDreamer> It would be nice to have the serialization encapsulated in the attribute so that we could swap it all out, or use different engines
00:54 <+perlDreamer> I'll mock up what I'm thinking, then send you a paste
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01:01 <+perlDreamer> ...after I clean up disk space on TGC again
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01:56 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, these tests all pass for me: http://gist.github.com/335892
01:56 <+perlDreamer> do they pass for you, too?
01:58 < Getty> opera makes me sick
01:58 <+perlDreamer> try rock and roll instead
01:59 < Getty> hehe
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02:05 < Getty> i dont get it
02:07 < Getty> <div class="rapidev_form_name rapidev_form_name_auktion_Objekte_0"></div>
02:07 < Getty> this is the "faulty code"
02:07 < Getty> its totally next to the element that fails (not inside, or around, its totally next to it)
02:08 < Getty> if i have it in, the ajax fileupload doesnt get triggered
02:08 < Getty> if i remove it, it works
02:08 < Getty> crazy shit... and then people ask me why i hate opera so much
02:13 < Getty> ah also not really
02:13 < Getty> just in small case
02:13 < Getty> in bigger scale its not that again
02:13 < Getty> 8-)
02:13 < Getty> oh man
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06:23 <+perlDreamer> hey, preaction!
06:23 <+perlDreamer> ... or preaction's bot.  whomever you are
06:23 <@preaction> preaction has no bot. he's not cool enough
06:24 <+perlDreamer> only preaction's bot would say that
06:24 <+perlDreamer> he's always dissin' on preaction
06:24 <@preaction> but only preaction's bot would deny being preaction's bot, so there you go
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15:37 < SDuensin> Morning.
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15:54 <+bartjol> done migrating
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16:41 <+perlDreamer> taking kids to school, bbiab
16:44 < SDuensin> ko
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17:01 <+perlDreamer> phew
17:02 <+perlDreamer> last day before spring break, and they are wound up!
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17:18 <+perlDreamer> bartjol, I have some Dutch culture questions for you
17:19 <+perlDreamer> At the WUC, you mentioned that sometimes Dutch people are complainers.  Up to the point where if there's no complaining that something is wrong.
17:19 <+perlDreamer> Am I remembering correctly?
17:20 -!- cap10morgan_ is now known as cap10morgan
17:20 <+bartjol> yes
17:20 <+bartjol> you are
17:21 <+perlDreamer> Do Dutch people like to barter?
17:22 <+perlDreamer> If we agree to something, will the Dutch come back and ask for more, and more?
17:22 <+bartjol> not especially
17:23 <+bartjol> but clients always do
17:23 <+bartjol> if we don't barter we have more to complain about
17:25 <+perlDreamer> so it's probably safe to say, "yes you can have this but it will cost extra, you compaining Dutch cheapo" ??
17:25 <+bartjol> but if there is free stuff we will come back, and complain if it isn't free anymore
17:26 <+bartjol> well, maybe to the people you know you can tell it in that words
17:26 <+bartjol> but to other people it might be a bit.....
17:26 <+bartjol> rude
17:26 <+perlDreamer> I'll try s/,.+$//;
17:27 <+perlDreamer> I should hire you as a consultant on foreign relations
17:28 <+bartjol> I really hate it that you also help me, otherwise I could have send an invoice
17:28 <+perlDreamer> me help you?  I thought I just complained about the lack of documentation
17:28 <+perlDreamer> No POD
17:28 <+perlDreamer> No remodeling pictures
17:28 <+bartjol> and when I could have, I would complain about the cheap dollar
17:29 <+bartjol> yeah, and then I got a bug assigned
17:29 <+perlDreamer> You asked that it be assigned
17:29 <+bartjol> that I tell you that you may assign it to me, does not mean you have to do that
17:29 <+perlDreamer> I didn't know the dollar had recovered against the EU
17:30 <+bartjol> I'm just being dutch
17:30 <+bartjol> it didn't
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17:34 <+bartjol> so, back to nice and friendly
17:34 <+perlDreamer> okay :)
17:34  * SDuensin needs a channel like #InsaneProgrammers.
17:35 <+bartjol> so we wouldn't bother you here?
17:35 < SDuensin> So I could get people to help me with my nutty ideas!
17:36 <+bartjol> ah, we are not nutty enough for you, eh
17:36  * perlDreamer puts on his pistachio aftershave
17:37 < SDuensin> Like my "Frost" project.  I've been working on an API to remotely install classic games for people.  Nobody to bounce that off of to see if they think it'll work or not.
17:40 <+bartjol> mmm, #vintagegames ?
17:41 < SDuensin> Well, the games are, but the code is all new.  :-)
17:50 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin, how many people are really going to want to play Lounge Suit Larry in the Land of the Lizards?
17:51 < SDuensin> ME!  I even have a T-Shirt for that game!
17:51 < SDuensin> On the back it says, "What do you want?  Good taste or good graphics?"
18:01 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re076ecb / (2 files in 2 dirs): Add tests for traits and coercion for JSON in the db. - http://bit.ly/d3jg6q
18:01 <+perlDreamer> it works, Haarg!
18:04 <@Haarg> cool
18:04 <@Haarg> could probably make a short name for that trait
18:05 <+perlDreamer> That would be nice.  You mean an alias, or just a new name?
18:07 <@Haarg> alias
18:11 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rb0cad3b / (lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/Comments.pm): Remove get and update overrides in Asset::Role::Comments - http://bit.ly/cZ3d6i
18:11 <+perlDreamer> that last bit still needs tests
18:13 <+perlDreamer> time to review Moose::Manual::MethodModifiers, to find the equivalent of C3's next::method
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18:31 <+bartjol> mmm doubting whether I feel like writing pod tonight
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19:22 < kimd> preaction, are you informed about the status of template revision concerning the gallery?
19:22 < kimd> I read about new templates being available for testing.
19:23 < kimd> I am asking because I am working on drag'n'drop sorting again.
19:23 < SDuensin> New gallery template?  Ooo.
19:23 < kimd> I would like to move the feature to the album edit screen.
19:24 <+perlDreamer> kimd, nothing has been added to 7.9 yet, so it should be fine
19:24 <+perlDreamer> just post to the RFE that you're going to do it
19:24 <+perlDreamer> so there's no awkwardness in doing it twice
19:25 < kimd> Cool!
19:25 < kimd> Thanks, perlDreamer!
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19:55 <+perlDreamer> kimd, do you and Getty know each other?
19:55 <+perlDreamer> kimd, meet Getty, perl programmer and new WebGUI convert from Germany
19:56 <+perlDreamer> Getty, meet kimd, professional climber, perl hacker and WebGUI user/dev from Germany
19:59 < Getty> oh ok ;)
20:02 < Getty> but i'm not really a convert ;)
20:02 < Getty> actually i'm near to switch away from WebGUI
20:02 < Getty> even tho i must say its really impressive system, but its too impressive (as in: it confuses me again hehe)
20:03 < SDuensin> Don't leave!  You'll only end up in tears!
20:03 < Getty> its always kind of sad, that at a given level of size of a CMS its nearly impossible to stay at the "simple things done simple" way
20:03 < Getty> SDuensin: hehehe, its still a good CMS :) i will always make promo for it
20:04 < SDuensin> I was foolish and ran a site on Drupal.  Also ran one on Joomla.  <shudders>
20:04 < Getty> hehehehe
20:04 < Getty> when i came to my new company
20:04 < Getty> my boss had a project on his todolist which he wanted to make with drupal
20:05 < Getty> after 1 work-week (so just worktime!!) he was 95% done, but said he needs probably a week more for the last 5%
20:05 < Getty> then i made a CMS in 1 day, and my boss remade the site in 2 days
20:06 < Getty> all that CMS lag one thing: simplicity
20:06 < Getty> simple things done easy
20:06 < Getty> I worked the last 2 years in my old company with a "top (commercial) CMS" which brakes the market right now
20:07 < Getty> it feels so dirty if you actually earn money with code that is coming straight from hell LOL ;)
20:07 < SDuensin> WebGUI is easy.  You just need to learn how it does things.
20:07 < SDuensin> ehheheehe
20:08 < Getty> webgui is at some level a bit complex and its not that easy to modify "little things" but that is somehow a logical effect out of a specific dimension
20:08 < SDuensin> Like what little things?  I find it quite easy to bend to my will.
20:09 < Getty> could be probably i just dont know where
20:09 < Getty> for example, lets take themes
20:09 < Getty> what i dont get is the way to use a specific layout
20:09 < Getty> especially if its bigger... dont know, probably i'M just to stupid hehe ;)
20:09 < SDuensin> Every page can have it's own layout.  You just select what you want in the properties of the PageLayout.
20:10 < Getty> yeah
20:11  * SDuensin guesses he doesn't understand.
20:11 < Getty> i probably really should learn WebGUI, but its an act between my own will to make CMS and fixing myself to reality of someone else
20:11 < Getty> hey i have a custom layout :-P i know it
20:11 < Getty> http://www.raudssus.de/
20:11 < SDuensin> I set off to write my own CMS a few times.  Then realized I was re-implementing WebGUI.  :-D
20:11 < Getty> hehehe
20:12 < Getty> i would not really reimplement WebGUI
20:12 < SDuensin> Your site looks fine.  What do you want to do?
20:12 < Getty> oh i dont know
20:12 < Getty> actually i would like to make it look simple
20:13 < Getty> add a twitter/facebook link, make the blog looks nice ;)
20:13 < SDuensin> Well, to style the blog, you need to make a copy of the existing template that it's using and then modify the copy.
20:14 < SDuensin> (That way, when you upgrade WebGUI, your changes don't get erased.)
20:14 < Getty> yeah
20:14 < Getty> you really want me todo anything with WebGUI, eh? ;)
20:15 < SDuensin> Well, it does everything!  No reason not to use it!  :-D
20:15 < Getty> hehe, beside its not my code!! 8-)
20:15 < Getty> you should check http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/ that is running on my Framework ;)
20:16 < SDuensin> Trying to load it.  (My connection is terrible.)
20:16 < Getty> but that points out a problem with most CMS (especially joomla and drupal hehe), its hard for a professional programmer to jump in easy. Actually if you are expert its as hard as being a beginner
20:16 < Getty> that is always a big bummer for the coders (even tho not a bummer for the standard user)
20:17 < SDuensin> WebGUI has a nice API.  Books, too.
20:17 < Getty> yeah but that doesnt fix the problem :)
20:17 < Getty> you need to understand many many stuff before you can actually do things really like you used to
20:18 < Getty> as i said: not really a problem, that is just cause the complexity kicks in
20:18 < Getty> how long you do WebGUI?
20:18 < SDuensin> Nice looking site.  Wouldn't be hard to do in WebGUI at all.  :-P
20:18 < Getty> the page has over 1 Mio. pages
20:18 < Getty> its a bit complex with the import export events at the backend
20:19 < SDuensin> Long time.  And I remember trying to learn it the first time.  It seems strange.
20:19 < Getty> but i do a real cool usage of static files
20:19 < SDuensin> No way I'd build without it now.  Not unless I absolutely HAD to.
20:19 < Getty> i put on PHP Array on start of every page and just startup my framework, that way most pages are even served "dynamic static" 100%
20:20 < Getty> if you would have my framework you wouldnt think much, cause you just do it
20:20 < Getty> thats why i called it RapiDev ;) dont think, just code
20:20 < SDuensin> I don't need code.  I just build.
20:21 < Getty> but i wanna code!!!111 ;)
20:21 < SDuensin> Then help me build my crazy game network.  :-P
20:21 < Getty> lol i got my own game development team ;)
20:21 < Getty> www.conflictindustries.org (or playerid.net :-P)
20:21 < SDuensin> Nice.  My team is "me".
20:22 < Getty> if you need resources or technology just ask ;) thats our job hehe
20:22 < Getty> with playerid.net i want to setup a central registration/playeridentity concept for general gaming
20:22 < SDuensin> I always need art.  Problem is, I also always need money.  :-P
20:22 < Getty> hehehe
20:23 < Getty> i got lots of art dudes, but the problem is more to have decent coder ;)
20:23 < SDuensin> Ever look at Unity3D?
20:24 < Getty> dont think so.. could be
20:24 < Getty> the good engine coders arent anyway somewhere public
20:24 < Getty> and engine coders are morons p.d.
20:25 < Getty> its really hard to make decent "contracts" with them
20:25 < SDuensin> Take a look at Unity3D.  It's really nice.
20:26 < Getty> oh you mean the ENGINE...
20:26 < Getty> but that is commercial
20:26 < Getty> cant work with that
20:26 < SDuensin> There's two.  One is free.
20:26 < Getty> conflict industries is 100% OpenSource and 100% CC
20:27 < Getty> yeah but i still dont have rights to the engine
20:27 < Getty> our primary target is also to LEARN about game development, if you take the shiny stuff you cant learn anything ;) hehe
20:27 < SDuensin> I try and stay open as well.  Not that picky though.  :-)
20:27 < Getty> defining workflows for game development, setting up infrastructure to manage gamedevelopers
20:28 < SDuensin> Ah yea, well, I learned.  Tired of writing renderers.
20:28 < Getty> like sourceforge.net for games
20:28 < Getty> you did write renderers?
20:28 < Getty> so you are an engine developer :D
20:28 < Getty> dont you wanna help? ;)
20:28 < SDuensin> Not anymore.
20:29 < SDuensin> I'm pre-pixel shaders and fancy GPUs.
20:29 < Getty> you know cubeengine?
20:30 < SDuensin> Know of it.  Never programmed with it.
20:30 < Getty> we started now doing a fork of assaultcube
20:30 < Getty> but we are again in dispute about chnaging engine
20:30 < Getty> this weekend there should be a final decision
20:30 < Getty> if we go with assaultcube engine or sauerbraten engine
20:30 < Getty> sauerbraten is just.... a bit more resource intensive
20:30 < Getty> and our first game should be a total LOW LOW LOW power game
20:30 < Getty> so that many people can get into it and also many people can develop for it
20:31 < Getty> (or based on it)
20:34 < Getty> NP: Battlestar Galactica (the original series) :)
20:35 < SDuensin> Cool
20:35 < Getty> so come on dude, help us :)
20:36 < Getty> be part of conflict industries
20:36 < Getty> and support game development in general
20:36 < Getty> we got cookies! (aehm server)
20:36 < SDuensin> I don't have time.  I'm waaaaay backed up on my own projects.
20:36 < Getty> hey just be there, and we will see what comes out
20:36 < Getty> probably other people of the team can also help you
20:36 < Getty> are you on quakenet?
20:37 < SDuensin> no
20:37 < Getty> why????? ;)
20:37 < Getty> you do stuff with gaming and you are not on quakenet??? ;)
20:37 < Getty> dude!!!!
20:37 < SDuensin> Quake was 20 years ago.  :-P
20:37 < Getty> hehehehe
20:37 < Getty> quakenet is the shit
20:37 < Getty> its required for game development
20:37 < Getty> nearly all developers are there
20:38 < SDuensin> http://www.jaegertech.net/software/multiplayer-game-server
20:38 < Getty> LOL :)
20:38 < Getty> cool
20:38 < Getty> oh thats by you? awesome
20:38 < SDuensin> Long time ago.
20:38 < SDuensin> Yea.
20:39 < Getty> we definitly need you in the team ;)
20:39 < SDuensin> hehe
20:39 < Getty> i need more dudes who know what they do
20:39 < Getty> big part of the teams are children
20:40 < SDuensin> Wish I had time.  Hell, if I did, I'd go do some of the games on my list that I've designed.
20:40 < Getty> come please easily join us
20:40 < Getty> and be on our IRC
20:40 < Getty> and we will see what comes out
20:40 < Getty> we dont have deadlines, or put anyone into stress
20:40 < Getty> we are very slow in progress but we dont stress
20:41 < SDuensin> I've got over a dozen projects on my development server alone.  Plus around 20 web sites I take care of.  Oh, and a real job.  And two kids.  :-P
20:41 < Getty> lol!
20:41 < Getty> still :)
20:42 <@preaction> heh, you've almost reached my level of ambition ;)
20:42 < Getty> just be there, even if you just can answer questions sometimes it help :)
20:42 < Getty> preaction: what? :)
20:42 < Getty> preaction: you wanna helP?
20:42 <@preaction> dozens of projects, hundreds of websites, normal job
20:43 < SDuensin> I have my own little private sourceforge like site.  :-)
20:43 <@preaction> sorry, i've got my hands wrapped up in a SWF MMORPG (one that doesn't suck, a tall order)
20:43 < Getty> preaction: do they need resources?
20:43 < SDuensin> Single White Female?
20:43 < Getty> preaction: would love to help with hosting facilities
20:43 <@preaction> Getty: we might, in the future. right now we just started the company
20:44 <@preaction> SDuensin: SWF is the "Flash" file format. run on the flash vm (or Adobe AIR, or soon iPhone)
20:44 < Getty> preaction: ah its company
20:44 < SDuensin> preaction - That's funny.  I have an engine for that, too.  :-)
20:44 <@preaction> yes. i'm the CTO, so we'll be releasing as much of the engine as possible open-source
20:45 < Getty> but then we all could need the same
20:45 < Getty> tools for coodination of the game development
20:45 < Getty> ticket system optimized for gaming requirements, special workflow definitons and stuff
20:45  * SDuensin uses Redmine
20:45 <@preaction> http://www.ffilmation.org/website/ <- this is what we're probably gonna base our engine on, just stripped out of some of the less resource-intense options (point light, shading, etc...)
20:45 < Getty> we use trac :)
20:46 <@preaction> i'll be installing Trac myself. <3 Trac
20:46 < Getty> cool
20:46 < Getty> trac owns
20:46 < Getty> but trac is... old
20:46 < SDuensin> I switched from Trac to Redmine.  They're both nice.
20:46 < Getty> and got design flaws
20:46 <@preaction> redmine is nice, but it's too much for just what I want: Ticket and release tracking
20:46 < Getty> for example: translation..................
20:46 < Getty> trac never can make a decent translation concept, they "forgot" it
20:46 < Getty> but redmine is dead out of concept: its PHP
20:47 < SDuensin> Interesting engine.
20:47 < SDuensin> Huh?  Redmine is Ruby.
20:47 < Getty> oh it is???
20:47 < Getty> nah, Ruby, PHP, where is the difference?
20:47 < SDuensin> Yea.
20:47 < Getty> in both you got 20 engines which doesnt work ;)
20:47 < SDuensin> The difference is PHP crap is easier to install.  :-)
20:48 < SDuensin> Actually, Bitnomi has a ready-to-go Redmine stack.
20:48 < Getty> reminds me on the CeBIT, where i had a professional publisher about opensource development and tried to convience him how cool perl is
20:48 < Getty> other perl dudes told him then: "ask getty whatever language you want to use and he tells you why you have to switch to perl"
20:48 <@preaction> yeah, redmine is Rails. bleh.
20:48 < Getty> and then the professional said: "and what about ruby?"
20:48 < SDuensin> Rails is bleh, but Redmine is NICE!
20:49 < Getty> and i said: "gimme ONE engine then we could talk about it"
20:49 <@preaction> Trac is Python, and the rest of our engine is Python (because of PyAMF and twisted and SQLAlchemy, Perl doesn't have an AMF bridge :(
20:49 < Getty> AMF?
20:49 < Getty> and if perl doesnt have it: code it! ;)
20:49 <@preaction> Adobe Message Format -- a binary protocol for passing stuff to/from flash over sockets
20:50 < Getty> ah ok
20:50 < Getty> but that is a low reason, or?
20:50 <@preaction> and I would, I really would, but we're already looking at a huge Time To Market, and I don't want to increase that
20:50 < SDuensin> I thought AMF made bowling equipment.
20:50 < Getty> lol
20:51  * SDuensin stopped working on his Flash-based engine just prior to putting in 3D.
20:51 < Getty> preaction: does your engine/core already has a cool name? ;)
20:51 < SDuensin> http://bitnami.org/stack/redmine
20:51 < Getty> i got one in my head which i wanted to use for a "ZakMcCracken MMORPG" game
20:52 <@preaction> Getty: the engine is the ffilmation engine, linked above. anything we edit or change will go back into the engine. I don't think the guy has a github or a sf entry yet, so I might go ahead and make one
20:53 < Getty> what you guys think of "ZakMcCracken" as MMORPG? :)
20:53 <@preaction> i know i'll be adding the multiplayer part, and that's gonna be a biggie. i might be adding other huge parts like NPCs and Quests
20:53 < SDuensin> I think Lucas will squash you.
20:53 < Getty> preaction: take ape-project into concerns
20:53 <@preaction> sounds like i'd BE Zak McCracken
20:53 < Getty> SDuensin: its just about the style
20:53 <@preaction> but if it's an MMORPG, we can't all be Zak
20:53 < Getty> SDuensin: you know the "town scenes" in ZakMcCracken?
20:53 < Getty> just think about a huge town
20:53 < Getty> and everyone got a flat
20:53 < Getty> and a character
20:53 < Getty> "thats it"
20:53 < Getty> but all looks like zakmccracken style
20:54 < SDuensin> Wow.  My Redmine is OLD.
20:54  * SDuensin really needs to get off his butt and fix that.
20:54 < SDuensin> Sounds like the old (and dead) Sierra Network.
20:54 <@preaction> yeah, looks a lot like the old sierra games
20:54 < Getty> there was one???
20:54 <@preaction> might want to play on that
20:54 < Getty> unbelievable
20:54 < Getty> they stole my idea!
20:54 < Getty> btw: i wanted to call it "Maniac City Project" ;)
20:55 < Getty> (shortage: MCP..... i hope there are tron fans here? ;) )
20:55 <@preaction> heh
20:55 < Getty> i mean its all about putting flashs on a flash with specific X/Y
20:55 < Getty> so the people could make own "equipment" very easy
20:55 < Getty> NCP's for the business areas and stuff
20:55 < Getty> it would be so the most awesome shitfuck ever 8-)
20:56 < SDuensin> Sounds like SecondLife, but flat.
20:56 < Getty> yeah but i had the idea before actually 10 years old
20:56 < Getty> but i didnt had time and to less flash coders
20:57 < Getty> flash coders are "gold" in some matter, so it was hard to get them to work "free"
20:57 < Getty> its still nearly impossible
20:57 < Getty> but dudes....
20:57 < SDuensin> Maybe I should finish my engine.
20:57 < Getty> you both could really get advantage of your own projects with PlayerID.net :)
20:57 < Getty> and i think you should support it
20:57 <@preaction> yeah, Good flash programmers are definitely worth it, even though if you know JavaScript, AS3 is cake
20:57 < Getty> You know OpenID?
20:57 <@preaction> openID is awesome, yeah
20:58 < Getty> SDuensin: is it good
20:58 < Getty> SDuensin: is it good?
20:58 < Getty> preaction: but...
20:58 < Getty> preaction: you cant integrate it into a game easily
20:58 < Getty> preaction: PlayerID.net wants to offer the somehow same concept like OpenID but offer is also not over HTTP
20:58 < SDuensin> Oddly, my Flash engine is scripted in Lua.  :-)
20:58 < Getty> preaction: so that a you can just put it into the game
20:58 < Getty> preaction: and the player got one ID for all games
20:59 < Getty> he can have own forum, blog, youtube videos whatever he wants on his profile page, also adding all games he plays
20:59 < Getty> and if the game binds to the statistics of PlayerID.net also see his stats all the time
20:59 < Getty> that is the target
20:59 <@preaction> that does sound interesting, but it doens't sound like something that will take off (ivory towers, and all that)
20:59 < Getty> lets say.....
20:59 < Getty> there are many many opensource games
20:59 <@preaction> i have in my head I want to make a Flash version of SubSpace (later Continuum), and PlayerID.net would probably be perfect for that
20:59 < Getty> which have a central registration or none registration at all
21:00 < Getty> playerid.net offers a decentral-centralized concept
21:00 < SDuensin> For open source it might work.  Commercial games have Steam and SteamCloud.
21:00 < Getty> so you got public and private keys, much signing and stuff
21:00 < Getty> SDuensin: we are better then steam
21:00 < Getty> SDuensin: cause we are independent of the "steam server"
21:00 < Getty> SDuensin: playerid.net can be down and you still can play all games identified
21:01 < Getty> also...
21:01 < SDuensin> I can play all my Steam stuff offline.
21:01 < Getty> Sduensin: but just cause they put it in, you cant play online with your steam_Id if steam is down
21:01 < Getty> Sduensin: if you got a clan server, and steam is down, then you cant get the STEAM_ID
21:01 < Getty> SDuensin: PlayerID.net solves this
21:01 < SDuensin> Can't say I've ever tried.
21:01 < Getty> so that the game is independent of its own masterserver
21:01 < SDuensin> That's cool.
21:02 < Getty> yeah, when i heard about the concept of divVerent a developer of Nexuiz i was shocked that it can be so easy
21:02 < SDuensin> Hey!  Go vote!  http://bitnami.org/product/webgui
21:02 < Getty> and of course
21:02 < Getty> PlayerID.net will be build 100% opensource
21:03 < SDuensin> Hard to believe Nexuiz grew out of the ancient Quake 1 codebase.
21:03 < Getty> and also free for everybody
21:03 < Getty> SDuensin: LordHavoc is a genius
21:03 < Getty> SDuensin: but nexuiz will die now
21:03 < SDuensin> :-)
21:03 < Getty> SDuensin: Vermeuten the "owner" sold it
21:03 < SDuensin> ?
21:03 < Getty> yeah
21:03 < Getty> he made a contract with illfonic who makes now the xbox/ps3 version of it
21:03 < SDuensin> That's what forking is for.
21:04 < Getty> but they have a special contract
21:04 < Getty> no
21:04 < Getty> its more
21:04 < Getty> really SOLD
21:04 < Getty> they can use the same name
21:04 < Getty> so there will be 2 nexuiz
21:04 < Getty> (nexuiz.com is the commercial one)
21:04 -!- khenn [~frank@adsl-71-150-248-40.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #webgui
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21:04 < Getty> think about the impact on the community
21:04 < Getty> if the free contributions are SOLD under the same name
21:04 < Getty> it took around 24h will the first people (important ones) started the fork project
21:04 < Getty> so soon there will be a new nexuiz
21:04 < SDuensin> Xbox and PS3?
21:05 < Getty> i think so.... check on the page
21:05 < Getty> they tell exactly
21:05 < Getty> and they dont need to recontribute anything
21:05 < Getty> so all people who distributed to nexuiz are seeing their content "stolen"
21:05 < Getty> cause Illfonic doesnt need to bring it back
21:05 < Getty> which would be regulary forbidden with the GPL
21:05 < Getty> (thats why i said SOLD, cause fork can only be same license)
21:06 < Getty> (thats why i said SOLD, cause fork can only be same license in case of GPL)
21:06 < Getty> its the biggest disaster i could imagine for the open source game development at all
21:07 < Getty> thats why conflict industries will make decent "contracts"
21:07 < Getty> we will write down what is the target, independent of a single person
21:07 < Getty> we already got a zen!!! :D
21:07 < Getty> http://hq.conflictindustries.org/wiki/ConflictIndustriesZen
21:08 < Getty> i think that is the most important point of conflict industries
21:08 < Getty> be independent and protect the work of the coders
21:08 < Getty> i dont want that everybody likes everybody in the team
21:09 < Getty> we do "work" so there is aggression and fight, it just needs to fit into rules
21:09 < Getty> if i talk with my dudes about progress and features i always remind them on the zen
21:15 < Getty> sounds cool? :)
21:16 < SDuensin> I just smack people.  That's zen.
21:16 < Getty> lol
21:17 <@Haarg> seems odd that they would be able to get a proprietary license for nexuiz unless all the contributors gave away their copyrights
21:17 < Getty> Haarg: it depends on what you define "contributors" the artist was asked special one by one
21:17  * SDuensin agrees with Haarg 
21:17 < Getty> Haarg: but the code and parts of it, are licensed under the owner, cause you cant split them up really (and it depends how the owner handles it)
21:17 <@Haarg> well, it seems like there were code contributors
21:18 < Getty> like if you got "Copyright by Vermeuten" in every code part 
21:18 < Getty> and they are not allowed to add their own name there
21:18 < Getty> then its still his
21:18 < Getty> its the "contract" based on the workflow
21:18 < Getty> like: "you accepted this with committing to it"
21:18 < Getty> on graphics its more easy to split, its file by file
21:18 < Getty> so there its easy to handle specific copyrights
21:19 < Getty> but even there the "project leader" could make it copyright of the project or whatever, if the committer accepts
21:19 < Getty> so technical: he dont need to ask everybody if he stricts it before with the remarks in code
21:20 <@Haarg> well, i can't really see it as being stolen if the contributors gave away the copyright for their code
21:20 < Getty> oh its more a personal thing now
21:20 < Getty> "legally" vermeuten is totally right
21:20 < Getty> but...
21:21 < Getty> why he allowed them to use the original name and even gave them the nexuiz.com?
21:21 < Getty> people contributed to the accept condition cause they thought its for a bigger opensource scale
21:21 < Getty> but if now it gets "sold", then its a double sided sword
21:22 < Getty> actually 90% of the guys who are pissed now said that it would be fine if the new game has another name
21:22 < Getty> but that really means "selling community"
21:22 < Getty> cause every nexuiz page now also promote the commercial game
21:22 < Getty> "automatically"
21:22 < Getty> and this is not vermeuten's work, its a big community out of thousands of people who have pages, info stuff and so on
21:22 < Getty> they do it cause its for opensource (mostly)
21:23 < Getty> and now the "name" and all the work is "sold"
21:31 < kimd> preaction, why are you torturing me with git?
21:31 <@preaction> i'm trying not to torture you, just let me know which files I need to test out
21:32 < kimd> No, it's all right. I will try to create that fork.
21:32 < kimd> I am still young. I can learn...
21:32 <@preaction> just saying there's another way to let me know those files, but it's a little more involved
21:32 < Getty> github is easy
21:32 < kimd> I find that svn was much easier.
21:32 < kimd> Now I spend a lot of time on understanding git.
21:32 <@preaction> well, once you wrap your head around the idea (esp. if you think in SVN already)
21:33 < Getty> beside that you have 2 commits ;)
21:33 < kimd> Yeah, that is the problem. Too many features, too many options.
21:33 <+perlDreamer> kimd: try this -> http://git.or.cz/course/svn.html
21:34 <+perlDreamer> on a daily basis, I only use 5-8 different git commands
21:34 <+perlDreamer> it's very easy to learn
21:34 <+perlDreamer> blindingly fast
21:34 <+perlDreamer> you will love it
21:34 <+perlDreamer> it's better than maultaschen mit kase overbacken
21:34 <+perlDreamer> or is that uberbacken
21:35 <@preaction> the help.github.com site i find to be really usable (even if it does a lot for you)
21:35 < kimd> I am vegetarian. So, I hope it is really better than that.
21:35 <+perlDreamer> It's better than zweibelkuchen
21:35 <+perlDreamer> ohne speck
21:35 < kimd> perlDreamer, it is "überbacken". "overbacken" could be Dutch.
21:35 <+perlDreamer> that's what I get for talking to Dutch people...
21:36 < kimd> Yummy, Zwiebelkucken is lecker!!!
21:36 < kimd> But makes you lonely for a while...
21:36 <+perlDreamer> Now I can't even keep my Dutch, German, French, Hungarian and Vietnamese straight
21:36  * kimd is trying to create a fork on github for the next two hours...
21:38 < kimd> Hey, I am forking already. Cool!
21:38 <+perlDreamer> see?  Very fast.
21:39 <+perlDreamer> we tried to make maultaschen with only spinach once
21:39 <+perlDreamer> it didn't turn out well
21:39 < Getty> i mean there is a big fat button for that ;)
21:39 <+perlDreamer> very soggy
21:39 < Getty> hehe#
21:39 < Getty> thats why github owned... "1-click forking"
21:39 < Getty> what i like most is the general thinking that you have to make:
21:40 < Getty> instead of committing directly to teh target, you first committ to yourself and "Offer" the diff
21:40 < Getty> that makes it much easier to contribute
21:40 < Getty> and for developers to accept contributions
21:41 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra3f58bd / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post.pm : Remove override of addChild in Post, since the same check is done via www_add/canAdd/validParent. - http://bit.ly/daNTD2
21:41 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rbc466ab / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post.pm : Add a validParent check to Post. - http://bit.ly/axwMVc
21:41 < kimd> Hm. Now I have forked the project and am able to clone the repo.
21:41 < kimd> But what is that line for "git remote add upstream git://github.com/pjhyett/github-services.git"?
21:42  * kimd is referring to the online help.
21:42 < kimd> perlDreamer, forget about Maultauschen. There is much better stuff.
21:42 < kimd> Btw, did you know they were invented by monks?
21:43 <@preaction> kimd: that adds another "remote" for the "upstream" (which, in this case, is the WebGUI you forked from)
21:44 <@preaction> upstream is up the fork tree, downstream is down the fork tree
21:44 <@Haarg> it's to link in the core webgui repo so that you can pull changes from it when it is updated
21:44 <@preaction> (or push changes to it if you have commit access)
21:44 <@Haarg> yeah
21:45 < kimd> I see. That makes sense. But first I need to solve an authentication issue.
21:45 <@preaction> you don't have commit access to that repo
21:45 < kimd> It seems, I have to got through the course that perlDreamer posted.
21:45 <@preaction> oh, yes, you need an SSH key pair
21:45 < kimd> I am still at the process of cloning the fork
21:46 <@preaction> yeah, you need an SSH key pair to get the authed version of your clone
21:46 <@preaction> er... fork
21:47 < kimd> Hm. I knew it would be complicated.
21:48 <@preaction> it's not that bad :p. you probably already have an ssh key and don't even know it
21:48 <@preaction> oh, wait, are you on windows? then it might be more interesting
21:50 < kimd> No, beware! I just never remember the place where public keys are stored.
21:50 < kimd> But wait, do not say anything.
21:51 <@preaction> ok
21:51 < kimd> I want to solve this on my own. Otherwise I will feel bad.
21:51 <@preaction> i know that feeling (if i don't learn something on my own, i don't remember it, so i have to end up looking it up over and over)
21:52 <@Haarg> preaction, did you get a chance to look at the upgrade thing i started working on?
21:53 <@preaction> Haarg: not yet, no. still working through March 16's email (and that's just the unfiltered inbox, not the support@, TGC, etc@ rfe@ bugs@ dev@ and client e-mail)
21:53 <@Haarg> ok, no problem
21:53 <@preaction> ... i think the e-mail i have to read just went up, not down... :(
21:54 <@preaction> yep. i've read 30, i just got 35 added :p
21:56 <@preaction> is the "Copy With Descendants" only available when viewing the asset? or is it also somewhere in the Asset Manager?
21:59 -!- SDuensin [~Scott@mobile-166-137-139-174.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:03 < kimd> preaction, I give up.
22:03 <@preaction> no worries
22:03 <@preaction> or give up what?
22:03 < kimd> I uploaded one of my public keys. It still does not work.
22:03 <@Haarg> what doesn't work?
22:04 < kimd> Authentication. SSH says:
22:04 < kimd> debug1: Next authentication method: publickey
22:04 < kimd> debug1: Offering public key: /home/spunky/.ssh/id_dsa
22:04 < kimd> debug1: Authentications that can continue: publickey
22:04 < kimd> debug1: Offering public key: /home/spunky/.ssh/id_rsa
22:04 < kimd> debug1: Authentications that can continue: publickey
22:04 < kimd> debug1: Trying private key: /home/spunky/.ssh/identity
22:04 < kimd> debug1: No more authentication methods to try.
22:04 < kimd> But my public key was accepted by github.
22:04 <@preaction> you uploaded /home/spunky/.ssh/id_rsa.pub correct?
22:04 <@Haarg> what command are you running that you are getting that?
22:04 < kimd> I uploaded id_rsa.pub
22:05 < kimd> ssh -v spunky@github.com
22:05 <@preaction> oh, you can't login that way
22:05 <@tavisto> preaction, do you know if we can easily dupe an existing game in TGC?
22:05 <@preaction> it's github@github.com
22:05 < kimd> This is recommended by the online help to check for successful authentication.
22:05 <@preaction> tavisto: i'm working on that right now
22:06 <@tavisto> ok, well let me know if it's something that me or Vrby are capable of doing. We don't want to publicize that we can do it.. But for people that spend a bunch of $ with us, I'm happy to. :)
22:06 < kimd> preaction, it's git@github.com. But in principle you are right.
22:06 < kimd> That solves the problem.
22:06 < kimd> I thought the git is just a placeholder that needs to be replaced.
22:06 < kimd> Too much thinking.
22:07 <@preaction> tavisto: it isn't. and i don't think i can even add a quick "Copy" button (decks, boards, games were never designed to be copied, so we probably don't copy all the storage locations and other jazz that can mess things up)
22:07 <@tavisto> ugh
22:07 <@preaction> yet another reason we need collateral AND storage as a role (or a better way of forming relationships in assets)
22:07 <@tavisto> there goes my "this should be easy" expectation
22:07 <@preaction> it's straightforward, it is. it's just a lot of things to check
22:10 <@Haarg> kimd, you'll probably have to change the remote url on your clone before you can push changes
22:11 < kimd> And to what?
22:12 <@Haarg> well, it sounds like you used the read only url to make the clone.  now that you have the ssh key set up you would want to change it to the read+write url.
22:14 < kimd> Haarg, that is a misunderstanding. I was stuck at cloning the forked repo.
22:14 <@Haarg> ah
22:14 < kimd> But it seems to be working now.
22:14 < kimd> Thanks anyway.
22:16 < kimd> preaction, I have created and cloned the fork. I assume, the next step is applying my patch and pushing to the fork?
22:16 <@preaction> correct
22:16 < kimd> I mean the remote repo.
22:16 < kimd> Good. I will try that. Is it allowed to curse on this channel?
22:17 <@preaction> your wgpkg should go in the docs/upgrades/7.9.1-packages folder (and if it doesn't exist, you should create it)
22:17 <@preaction> sure, go ahead
22:20 < kimd> Is it a problem if I get trailing whitespace error?
22:21 <@preaction> no
22:23 <+perlDreamer> kimd, what is better than maultaschen?
22:24 < kimd> Hm. Does it have to be related?
22:25 <+perlDreamer> no, not necessarily?
22:25 < kimd> I mean, something pasta-like with filling?
22:25 <+perlDreamer> sure
22:25 < kimd> Something German?
22:25 <+perlDreamer> that would be best
22:25 <+perlDreamer> since my wife loves German food and culture
22:25 <+perlDreamer> which is the primary reason I drive 25 miles to get her maultaschen
22:26 < kimd> What about Kohlrouladen?
22:26 <+perlDreamer> from here: http://www.edelweissdeli.com/
22:26 < kimd> Very heavy though.
22:26 <+perlDreamer> Kohlrouladen, is that like rinderouladen with cabbage?
22:26 < kimd> Exactly. The vegetarian style...
22:27 < kimd> I can translate the recipe for you.
22:27 < kimd> Check out chefkoch.de
22:27 < kimd> There you find lots of stuff.
22:30 < Getty> i cant eat vegetarian ;)
22:32 <@preaction> http://www.chefkoch.de/rezepte/461721139252650/Schupfnudeln-mit-Kraut-und-Speck.html <- this looks good
22:33 <+perlDreamer> that is very good
22:33 <+perlDreamer> Kathy makes it
22:33 <+perlDreamer> with homemade Shupfnedeln
22:34 <+perlDreamer> if you asked her nicely, and got her a kitchen, she'd probably make it at the WUC
22:34 <@preaction> okay, then what's gekörnte soup?
22:34 <@preaction> imma try it myself, always wanted to try more German / Eastern Eurpean cooking (mostly stick to Italian and Mexican)
22:34 <+perlDreamer> broth from granules, like boullion?
22:35 < kimd> What's the URL to gekörnte soup?
22:35 <@preaction> ahh, beef boullion, that makes sense
22:36 <@preaction> or chicken boullion
22:36 <+perlDreamer> kimd is sparking a revolution.  First we'll be cooking German food, next we'll be climbing rocks
22:37 <@preaction> <3 google translate
22:37 <@preaction> looks like one of the people added grated Gouda as well, mmm
22:37 <+perlDreamer> mmm, spaetzle with grated gouda and carmelized onions
22:37 < kimd> What about a pre-conference cookathon?
22:37 <@preaction> what is a "Tin of Sauerkraut". a can? 12oz?
22:37 < kimd> It's not defined. Just a tin.
22:38 < kimd> It's a lousy quantity specification.
22:38 <+perlDreamer> also, be sure to get real German sauerkraut.  American is too sour.
22:38 <@preaction> yeah. you get used to it on internet sites ;)
22:38 <@preaction> so the stuff in the green can?
22:38 < kimd> May I interrupt for some serious matter? I am stuck at pushing to my remote repo.
22:38 <@preaction> sure
22:39 < kimd> How do I do it? git push does not work.
22:39 < kimd> Or is that question too general?
22:39 <@preaction> define "doesn't work", what does happen?
22:40 < kimd> I get a lot of warnings and then a final error message that says:
22:40 < kimd> Permission denied (publickey).
22:40 < kimd> fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly
22:40 < kimd> Do I need to specify the remote?
22:40 <@Haarg> what do you get if you run git remote -v ?
22:41 <+perlDreamer> kimd: http://help.github.com/troubleshooting-ssh/
22:41 < kimd> That can't be the reason. I have set up ssh before.
22:41 < kimd> It was working when I cloned the repo.
22:41 < kimd> The warning says: warning: You did not specify any refspecs to push, and the current remote
22:41 < kimd> warning: has not configured any push refspecs...
22:42 <@Haarg> what version of git are you using? (git --version)
22:42 <@preaction> yes, you need to say "git push origin master" or you can configure the default "refspec" to push to in your <repo>/.git/config
22:43 < kimd> git version 1.6.3.3
22:43 <+perlDreamer> done_testing is awesome!
22:44 <@preaction> perlDreamer: indeed. much nicer than planning
22:44 < kimd> Ah, I am stupid. I was trying to push as root, but configured authentication only for my local user.
22:44 <+perlDreamer> I think we'll move over to done_testing in wg8, totally
22:44 <@preaction> ah, yep, i still do that once in a while, kimd 
22:45  * kimd is banging his head on the table.
22:45 < kimd> What is done_testing?
22:45 < kimd> Juhu! I am done.
22:45 < kimd> How do I inform you about my changes, preaction?
22:45 < kimd> Is there a slick git command for doing that?
22:46 <@preaction> github.com has a "Pull Request", or you can just tell me the commit ID and i'll check your github (what's your github username?)
22:47 < kimd> commit ID? Uh, it never ends.
22:47 < kimd> My username is spunky.
22:48 <+perlDreamer> just how many names do you have, kimd?
22:49 <@preaction> kimd: usually you just need the first 6-8 characters of the commit ID
22:49 < kimd> I have many lives...
22:49 < kimd> I just send out a pull request.
22:50 < kimd> perlDreamer, I have been using spunky as my default username for more than a decade now. I just got used to it.
22:51 < kimd> I use kimd only on webgui.org.
22:51 < kimd> preaction, received the pull request?
22:52 <@preaction> not yet, but i've got 7 days worth of e-mail to work my way through, so even if i don't I will check your github account and take a look-see (if not today, then tomorrow or the weekend)
22:52 <@Haarg> kimd, http://www.webgui.org/develop/wiki/git has a section with some recommended config settings to use to make working with git a little easier
22:52 < kimd> Ok. No problem. That means I am done for today and let you do the rest :-)
22:53 < kimd> Thanks, Haarg. I am going to have a look at it.
22:58 <+perlDreamer> kimd, done_testing is a subroutine used to indicate that a test is done running
22:58 <+perlDreamer> it's kind of a marker in the output stream
22:58 <+perlDreamer> otherwise, you have to use no_plan, which will not tell you if the test died early
22:58 <+perlDreamer> or you have to manually count all the tests and keep track of them 
22:58 <+perlDreamer> done_testing is awesome
23:00 < kimd> I see. Is it part of perl or the webgui core?
23:00 <+perlDreamer> It's part of Test::More
23:00 <@preaction> it's part of TAP 3.0
23:01 <+perlDreamer> Does anyone know how to fool perl into thinking that a module is already loaded?
23:01 <@preaction> add ... uh... why?
23:01 <@preaction> add an entry to %INC
23:02 <+perlDreamer> I want to test the beautiful comments aspect, which requires having a package that uses it
23:02 <@preaction> ahh
23:02 <+perlDreamer> I could put another dummy module into t/lib/WebGUI, but would rather just declare a package in the test
23:02 <@preaction> then yeah, that. just like deleting from %INC causes Perl to reload a module
23:03 <@preaction> oh, if you're adding another "package" statement, you do not have to "use" the package
23:03 <@preaction> it just exists
23:03 <+perlDreamer> yes, but WebGUI::Asset will still call loadModule, which requires the module
23:03 <@preaction> you may have to Package->import; if you want to import any symbols to your main:: package
23:03 <@preaction> oh.. yeah
23:04 <+perlDreamer> so I need to fool it into thinking that it's already loaded
23:04  * perlDreamer uses his Jedi mind powers on Perl
23:04 <+perlDreamer> "You do not need to load this module..."
23:04 <+perlDreamer> "These are not the developers that you are looking for..."
23:04 < kimd> Does it work?
23:05 <@Haarg> Test::MockObject->fake_module('WebGUI::Asset::Test::MyAsset'); or $INC{'WebGUI/Asset/Test/MyAsset.pm'} = __FILE__
23:07 <+perlDreamer> ++Haarg
23:10 <@preaction> tavisto: a head's up, i'm almost done with the duplication feature
23:11 <+perlDreamer> preaction: Copy with Descendants only exists in the asset toolbar, not the asset manager
23:11 <+perlDreamer> it would be quite easy to add if you so command
23:12 <@preaction> yeah, and we don't show the asset toolbar, but worse, the descendants don't duplicate their own storage locations (either as properties or deep inside JSON collateral)
23:12 <+perlDreamer> uh oh
23:12 <+perlDreamer> dude, I figure there's at least 1-2 manweeks of coding that site needs
23:14 <@preaction> yes. but SOP is "wait until we also do the WebGUI 8 translation". then JT will be available to do it (from what I understand)
23:14 <@preaction> i mean, with how wrapped up tight we are with 7, it will be pretty much ground-up rewrite
23:15 <+perlDreamer> yeah, whole lot of code bustin' going on
23:15 <@preaction> which is exactly what it needs, PROVIDED JT follows the plan I laid out (back before TGC was hatched)
23:15 <@tavisto> awesome preaction
23:15 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, preaction, I need to create a separate file for WebGUI types.  Is anyone opposed to WebGUI::Types?
23:15 <@preaction> i gotta update the plan with the new print server spec/design, but otherwise it's still awesome
23:15 <@preaction> perlDreamer: no objection whatsoever
23:15 <+perlDreamer> you can't put the print server on the Mac?
23:17 <+perlDreamer> hm, can types be put into Roles?
23:18 <@preaction> i can put the print server on the mac, the whole thing has to communicate with the website over http, so it can be anywhere
23:22 < Getty> perlDreamer: you dont put types into Roles
23:22 < Getty> perlDreamer: you put types in your Project Framework
23:22 < Getty> (if we talk about the same Types ;) )
23:23 < Getty> and actually, just using them is enough anyway if you want to make it clean
23:28 < kimd> I noticed it's time to go to bed again.
23:28 < kimd> But only after a glass of red wine...
23:29 < kimd> Enjoy your day, guys!
23:29 <+perlDreamer> later, kimd
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23:45 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra92a500 / lib/WebGUI/Types.pm : Add a file to hold WebGUI types for Moose. Note, reads from the db come back as undef, so it has to be explicitly coerced. - http://bit.ly/cDYlC2
23:46 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rb41338c / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Pull types into its own file. -
23:46 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd3f139d / t/Definition.t : Test WebGUI::Types
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--- Day changed Fri Mar 19 2010
00:05 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r1363a86 / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Serialize _to_ json in write. - http://bit.ly/d1e6j4
00:06 < CIA-58> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra8496c4 / (lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/Comments.pm t/Role/Asset/Comments.t): Convert Comments role to use Types. Build a test for it. - http://bit.ly/9DO01s
00:06 <+perlDreamer> Okay, we can now serialize to and from JSON in the db
00:06 <+perlDreamer> we have types that support it
00:07 <+perlDreamer> and we have tests to make sure it works
00:08 <@preaction> yay!
00:09 <+perlDreamer> is it okay to start logging bugs for WebGUI8 to the bug board?
00:09 <+perlDreamer> I keep forgetting stuff and finding it later
00:13 <@preaction> not yet, have you tried using a notepad application? i forget what it's called (it's gnome-based)
00:15 <+perlDreamer> Tomboy
00:16 <@preaction> yes, that one
00:17 <@Haarg> i need to look into it a bit more but apparently my file-locations branch doesn't work with Config::JSON 1.5 for some reason
00:17 <@Haarg> annoying
00:18 <+perlDreamer> Isn't that the Moose one?
00:18 <+perlDreamer> v1.5?
00:24 <@Haarg> yes
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00:40 < Getty> that is so cool
00:43 < Getty> i just watch "alfred hitchcock presents"
00:43 < Getty> man is that good
00:43 < Getty> he is really a genius, even if he only gots 24 minutes
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01:26 <@Haarg> do you think the upgrades should use one version tag per version upgrade or one per upgrade script?
01:29 <+perlDreamer> hm
01:30 <+perlDreamer> if it was per script, it would be easier to undo small parts
01:30 <@Haarg> i also have added a rm_lib sub to delete a perl module
01:30 <+perlDreamer> but the upgrade process, will it let you run just 1 piece?
01:30 <@Haarg> not really meant to
01:31 <@Haarg> could be done by calling the methods yourself in a script
01:33 <+perlDreamer> in that case, I still like granularity
01:44 <@preaction> i like the granularity because it takes less time to code
01:44 <@preaction> aka 0
01:44 <@Haarg> it's not particularly less time to code either way
01:48 <+perlDreamer> preaction: that's too granular.  Have to have at least 1 version tag
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01:55 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, could we call __PACKAGE__->meta()->make_immutable(); in Asset.pm after the "definition" block?
01:55 <@Haarg> yes
01:56 <@Haarg> although it's probably better to have it at the end of the file
02:00 <+perlDreamer> Moose does not support class methods
02:00 <+perlDreamer> mmm, class attributes, to be specific
02:03 <@Haarg> no, although there is a MooseX package for that
02:03 <+perlDreamer> I think it's overkill for what I want
02:04 <+perlDreamer> I'd like to make the set of classes that are valid parents for a particular asset to be class data
02:04 <+perlDreamer> It's kind of like assetUi level.  I had to make it an attribute to make it inheritable
02:05 <+perlDreamer> http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=690571
02:15 <@Haarg> so i have the upgrades using one version tag per upgrade file, named as "Upgrade to $version - $filename" where filename is the base filename without the extension
02:16 <@Haarg> alternatively, perl upgrade scripts can request a named version tag
02:16 <+perlDreamer> that would be better
02:16 <@Haarg> which will be named "Upgrade to $version - $requested_name"
02:16 <+perlDreamer> because I can see people having scripts and packages with the same name
02:16 <+perlDreamer> oh
02:17 <+perlDreamer> can it be "Upgrade to $version - $filename $enum" where $enum is "script, package, etc"?
02:17 <+perlDreamer> that takes care of the naming conflict
02:17 <@Haarg> yeah, i could do that or even leave the extension on
02:18 <@Haarg> it also only creates/uses version tags when needed
02:18 <+perlDreamer> that's handy
02:18 <+perlDreamer> you think we're going to create a mess of version tags that users won't be able to follow?
02:18 <+perlDreamer> I mean, the granularity is great for us, but for the common user
02:18 <+perlDreamer> ?
02:18 <@Haarg> probably not useful for common users
02:19 <@Haarg> but then version tags are easy to ignore
02:19 <+perlDreamer> true
02:19 <@Haarg> and usually there are already tons of them created
02:20 <+perlDreamer> the manage committed version tags interface could use an overhaul
02:20 <+perlDreamer> search and sorting and useful pagination would help
02:23 <@Haarg> also, for the upgrade scripts, do you think it is better to force them to always 'use' the classes they want, or would having them automatically loaded be a good thing?
02:24 < Getty> Acme::Magic::Pony ftw! :D
02:25 < Getty> Haarg: problem with automatic loading is the bigger collision problem, even tho could be a switch
02:25 <@Haarg> bigger collision problem?
02:25 < Getty> depending on the "stack" of extra addons you have installed, it could be that 2 concepts automatically loaded makes a problem 
02:26 < Getty> (sure, shouldnt happen, but the risk is higher if its autoloaded)
02:27 <@Haarg> still don't quite get what you mean i guess
02:27 < Getty> if 2 modules introduce the same function, then the autoload would make massiv mess probably ;)
02:27 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, I don't see how it would know that I want to use WebGUI::Asset, WebGUI::SQL, and WebGUI::Utility automatically
02:27 <+perlDreamer> so I say make them "use" what they want
02:28 <@Haarg> Getty, i was only thinking of this for methods, not imported functions
02:28 <@Haarg> WebGUI::Utility wouldn't be able to be handled because it uses subs, not methods
02:29 <@Haarg> but for the others it could detect when you made a method call
02:39 <@Haarg> so that's a no to auto-loading?
02:40 <@Haarg> i updated my branch on github, should handle packages and sql scripts now and handle version tags properly.
02:41 <@Haarg> completely untested though
02:51  * perlDreamer signs off for tonight.  time to meet with the tax lady
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03:39 < CIA-58> webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * re5159e8 / (11 files in 6 dirs): Added URLMap support (e.g. virtual hosts and mounting) - http://bit.ly/cdvEiK
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--- Log opened Wed Mar 24 06:47:55 2010
06:47 <+perlDreamer> hopefully not out of relief
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10:03 -!- Radix_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [7.8.15-stable | 7.9.1-beta | WRE 0.9.3] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org | Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com
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11:28 < CIA-104> WebGUI: translation * r12455 /translations/German/German/Asset_Calendar.pm: Updating German on translation server
11:28 < CIA-104> WebGUI: translation * r12456 /translations/German/German/Asset_Collaboration.pm: Updating German on translation server
11:28 < CIA-104> WebGUI: translation * r12457 /translations/German/German/Asset_Post.pm: Updating German on translation server
11:28 < CIA-104> WebGUI: translation * r12458 /translations/German/German/Asset_Wobject.pm: Updating German on translation server
11:28 < CIA-104> WebGUI: translation * r12459 /translations/German/German/AuthLDAP.pm: Updating German on translation server
11:42 < CIA-104> WebGUI: translation * r12460 /translations/German/German/AuthWebGUI.pm: Updating German on translation server
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11:58 < CIA-104> WebGUI: translation * r12461 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (Asset_Collaboration.pm Asset_Wobject.pm Asset_Post.pm): Updating Dutch on translation server
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15:27 < CIA-104> WebGUI: translation * r12462 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (Asset_Calendar.pm AuthLDAP.pm Asset_Post.pm AuthWebGUI.pm): Updating Dutch on translation server
15:27 < CIA-104> WebGUI: translation * r12463 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Asset_Calendar.pm: Updating Dutch on translation server
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15:43 < SDuensin> Greetings.
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16:56 < SDuensin> Gack.  I remember how I did my WG auth integration last time...  I replaced it!  
16:59 <+bartjol> very good
17:00 < SDuensin> Not good.  I don't want to have to maintain that.  :-)
17:02 < SDuensin> I just need to find the Java version of Digest::MD5::md5_base64.
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17:06 <+bartjol> oh, sorry SDuensin, i thought it was good
17:07 <+bartjol> perlDreamer: I have a bug breakfast for you
17:07 <+perlDreamer> just 2
17:07 <+perlDreamer> not too bad
17:07 <+bartjol> other issue
17:07 < SDuensin> MMmm...bugs.
17:07 <+bartjol> we noticed that in webgui, when mysql fails, you get the automated internal server error
17:08 <+perlDreamer> yes
17:08 <+bartjol> while the problem can be more pinpointed
17:08 <+perlDreamer> no
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17:08 <+bartjol> ah
17:08 <+perlDreamer> there is already a bug registered for this
17:08 <+perlDreamer> can't be fixed until WebGUI 8
17:08 <+bartjol> does that depend on the wer httpd build?
17:08 <+perlDreamer> we really want to fix it, but it just isn't possible now without making API altering changes that would shake your world
17:08 <+bartjol> s/wer/wre/
17:09 <+perlDreamer> no, it's in the WebGUI core itself
17:09 <+bartjol> ah
17:09 <+bartjol> well, that seems to solve my problem (for now)
17:09 <+perlDreamer> it's a bummer, for sure
17:09 <+perlDreamer> so be very careful with your SQL code in the meantime
17:11 <+perlDreamer> tons of work going on to make WebGUI work with the iPhone, sounds like
17:11 <+bartjol> but, is that even so if the connection cannot be made at all?
17:12 <+bartjol> if some idiot turns mysql off?
17:12 <+bartjol> (not me, btw)
17:12 < SDuensin> iPhone?
17:12 <+MrHairgrease> you could prolly catch that in the url handler that actually opens the session
17:12 <+perlDreamer> of course  not, you're not an idiot
17:12 <+bartjol> thanks
17:12 < SDuensin> Can you be sure it arbitrarily censors random things so it's an authentic iPhone experience?  :-P
17:13 <+perlDreamer> hm
17:13 <+perlDreamer> if it can't connect, the session throws a fatal
17:14 <+perlDreamer> and this message should be displayed on the screen: Couldn't connect to WebGUI database, and can't continue without it.
17:14 <+perlDreamer> is that not what happens?
17:14 <+bartjol> iPhone, that are those things you
17:14 <+bartjol> a throw in the toilet
17:14 <+bartjol> b pour tea over
17:14 <+bartjol> c otherwise break it with a combination with water
17:14 <+bartjol> nope
17:14 <+MrHairgrease> dunno, I never shut down my db
17:14 <+bartjol> i did today
17:14  * MrHairgrease is not an idiot after all =)
17:15 <+perlDreamer> of course not, MrHairgrease is eurosexual
17:15 <+bartjol> http://webgui.pastebin.com/2umPzH1L
17:15 <+bartjol> I did it on purpose, to check the error message
17:17 <+perlDreamer> I think that's a bug, please file it, if you haven't already
17:17 <+bartjol> no, not yet
17:17 <+perlDreamer> if you chase it down and offer a patch, I'll offer you 500 karma
17:17 <+bartjol> ah
17:17 <+perlDreamer> otherwise, I'll work on it on Monday, which is when I normally do bugs
17:23 <@tavisto> Just say no to Bugs
17:23 <+bartjol> it is http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11494
17:23 <+bartjol> tavisto: you, but that doesn't make them go away
17:23 <+bartjol> s/you/yes
17:24 <+perlDreamer> tavisto can make bugs go away
17:24 <+perlDreamer> he does it by threatening to eat my children's livers if I don't fix them right away
17:24 <@tavisto> eeew gross...
17:25 <@tavisto> not liver... I hate liver... 
17:25 <+bartjol> kidneys?
17:25 <@tavisto> better yes.
17:26 <+bartjol> braaaaaiiiins
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17:27 < doc777> Hello friends. Is there a way to put a site into "Maintenance" mode ?
17:27 < doc777> Only one, and leave the others unaffected.
17:27 <+perlDreamer> doc777, yes, but you need to do some manual db work
17:27 <+perlDreamer> you cool doing that?
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> use the utility script in s sbin
17:27 < doc777> yep
17:27 <+perlDreamer> there's a script for that now?
17:27 <+perlDreamer> too cool!
17:28 <+perlDreamer> perl maintenanceMode.pl --configFile myconfig
17:28 <+MrHairgrease> maintenanceMode.pl
17:28 <+MrHairgrease> oh
17:28 <+bartjol> quite a while
17:28 <+MrHairgrease> yeah it has been for quite some time
17:28 < doc777> In the wre or WebGUI sbin?
17:28 <+bartjol> WebGUI
17:28 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI sbin
17:28  * MrHairgrease seems to be reapeating everyone
17:28 < doc777> Aha! Thankies, I will look at that.
17:30 <@tavisto> MrHairGrease, did Oqapi work with Mirazzi Tile on their new website?
17:30 <+MrHairgrease> never heardof 'em
17:30 <@tavisto> er Marazzi Tile   (www.marazzi.it)
17:30 <+MrHairgrease> so i guess not
17:30 <@tavisto> hehe yeah I guess not then. I'm trying to figure out who built their new site.. 
17:31 <+MrHairgrease> most of our customers ar eDutch
17:31 <@tavisto> It's a great new site although no one seems to know who developed the site (we're currently working with the US division -- so hopefully I can find this out)
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17:32 <@tavisto> I was looking for an opportunity to yell OQAPPPPPPPPPPI
17:32 <+MrHairgrease> just a suggestion, but you might try emailing these tile guys and just ask them who built their site
17:32 < doc777> That maintenance toggle is great. Looks really nice. Is there a way to edit the site while that is being displayed? Just curious.
17:32 <+MrHairgrease> but indeed: OQAPPPPPPPPPPI!!!
17:32 <@tavisto> um yeah, I'm waiting to hear back from them. Thanks. :)
17:33 <+bartjol> doc777: I think that is a contenthandler
17:33 <+bartjol> yes
17:33 <+bartjol> so you should be able to edit that
17:33 <+bartjol> it is in docs/maintenance.html
17:34 <+bartjol> so edit that one
17:34 <+perlDreamer> while the site is in maintenance mode, the only way to edit the site itself is via script
17:34 <+perlDreamer> there's no UI interface anymore, until you take it out of maintenance mode
17:34 <+perlDreamer> if you want to do site work that is "hidden" while the site is live, use version tags
17:35 <+bartjol> ow sorry
17:35 <+bartjol> I got it wrong
17:35 < doc777> Ok thanks  :o)
17:35 <+MrHairgrease> another thing you can do is let the mod_proxy httpd show a maintenance mode page
17:36 <+MrHairgrease> then direct your browser to your mod_perl instance directly
17:36 <+MrHairgrease> ie. port 8080 or whatever it is in the wre
17:36 <+perlDreamer> I thought you were going to suggest only showing that by incoming IP
17:36 <+bartjol> normally 8081
17:36 < doc777> Ra! Now that is an idea. But how would you do that... as far as where is that page located.
17:37 <+MrHairgrease> just edit /data/wre/etc/yoursite.modproxy
17:37 <+bartjol> what page? the maintenance one? in WebGUI/docs
17:37 <+MrHairgrease> comment out alle the rwrite stuff
17:37 <+MrHairgrease> and make sure your documentroot is correct
17:38 <+MrHairgrease> and you have a index.html page overthere
17:38 <+MrHairgrease> then restart mordproxy
17:38 <+bartjol> moordproxy?
17:38 <+MrHairgrease> then you go to your site by going to yoursite.com:8081
17:39 < doc777> Ah, I follow you now. Thanks, that would let us work on a new site while the world sees the other.
17:39 < doc777> Perfect.
17:39 <+MrHairgrease> ok
17:39 <+MrHairgrease> good luck
17:39 < doc777> Thank you so much. The people alone make webgui worth using :o)
17:40 <@tavisto> doc777, may I ask how/where it is you're using WebGUI? 
17:41 < doc777> Its a church / school network that has a few sites on their own server.
17:42 <@tavisto> Awesome, well I'm not sure if you've seen the webgui.org/sightings page, but we're always looking for more sites to list. That's the best way for us to show the world what can be done with wG
17:43 <@tavisto> Feel free to shoot us an email at info@plainblack.com with your URLs and we'll get your sites listed on there if you'd like. 
17:43 < doc777> Ah, will try and look into that. We would like to support webgui as much as possible. We have ordered a few of the books so far :o)
17:45 <@tavisto> awesome, that's what we like to hear. :)  Well when you're ready we can get the sites on sightings and even do a success story with you. Just let us know
17:47 <+MrHairgrease> speaking of which, what has happened to the succes story stuff Oqapi sent in?
17:57 <@tavisto> I'll check, should have been posted forever ago
17:58 <@tavisto> The city of Worcester, MA just released their wG site.   http://www.ci.worcester.ma.us/
18:29 <+perlDreamer> nice site
18:30 <+perlDreamer> has that been in the works for a while?
18:30 <+bartjol> tavis build it in 1 night
18:40 <@tavisto> yeah they worked on it for several months
18:40 <@tavisto> gotta line up a success story with my PoC there
18:40 <+MrHairgrease> poc??
18:40 <@tavisto> WebGUI gets evaluated quite frequently for city/county/township websites so it's good to have some additional examples
18:40 <@tavisto> point of contact
18:40 <+MrHairgrease> aha
18:41 <@tavisto> Hey, the Oqapi story is on the site... however, you couldn't see it because it's hidden in the Affiliate section of the success story listings
18:41 <@tavisto> we never made that public since we were waiting on the other resellers. That's why!
18:42 <@tavisto> Nobody wants to work with OQAPPPPPPPPPPPPI anyway so no big deal.
18:42 <+MrHairgrease> true enough
18:42 <@tavisto> :)
18:42 <+MrHairgrease> but nobody can break the habit of working with us either
18:42 <+bartjol> especially that short bold guy
18:43 <+MrHairgrease> bartjol, you are not working for oqapi, so I dunno what you are talking about
18:44 <+bartjol> yes, but I do have to put up with him 5 days a week, not 3
18:45 <+MrHairgrease> you are aware that he has grown a significant amount of hair, right?
18:45 <+bartjol> yeah
18:46 <+bartjol> but he is still bold in my head
18:46 <+MrHairgrease> so
18:46 <+MrHairgrease>  I dunno what you are talking about
18:46 <+bartjol> as so often
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18:57 <+MrHairgrease> tavisto: too bad, i have no affiliate access
18:58 <@tavisto> well I think we've got enough affiliates now that I can make that section visible. I'm fixing it up right now
18:58 <@tavisto> Need to get SDH and a few others on it though
18:58 <+MrHairgrease> ok
19:00 <+perlDreamer> tavisto, patspam is often on IRC, just give him a poke
19:00 <@tavisto> MrHairgrease, you should see it now
19:00 <@tavisto> we need to get your logo up there like Knowmad has
19:01 <+MrHairgrease> whoop!
19:01 <+MrHairgrease> indeed
19:01 <@tavisto> I suppose I can grab the one off your website and add some canvas to the sides
19:01 <+MrHairgrease> I can send you a logo
19:01 < CIA-104> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2a7f64c / t/tests/Test/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/HttpProxy : Removing bad file. - http://bit.ly/aCyVFk
19:01 <@tavisto> that works too
19:02 <+MrHairgrease> but I'll do so tomorrow or Friday depending how much tim eI spend at a customer tomoorrow
19:02 <+MrHairgrease> so hang on till the weekend
19:02 < CIA-104> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r82bc730 / t/tests/Test/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey : Remove another bad file. - http://bit.ly/aXagbc
19:03 <@tavisto> nm then, I'll just grab the one on your site and pull my magic
19:07 <+MrHairgrease> ok
19:08 <+MrHairgrease> if it looks like crap, i can always send you a good one anyway =)
19:08 <@tavisto> I'm going to make a slight modification to the Oqapi and put your head on it... and then correct the spelling to OQAPPPPPPI!
19:08 <+MrHairgrease> thanks for putting the stuff up
19:08 <@tavisto> Don't make me come over there
19:08 <@tavisto> actually, please do
19:08 <+MrHairgrease> I'll read it tomorrow as I now have to go to The Bar...
19:08 <@tavisto> That's exactly why I need to come over
19:08 <+MrHairgrease> You should come over
19:09 <+MrHairgrease> We're meeting at Locus Publicus in Delft
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19:09 <@tavisto> I've been a terrible friend. Yes, been trying forever.. I should just book a flight and then I have to
19:09 <+MrHairgrease> http://www.locuspublicus.nl/wb/
19:09 <+MrHairgrease> you do that!
19:09 <+MrHairgrease> see you
19:09 <@tavisto> haha, yeah unless you've got a concorde laying around.. I don't think that's going to work tonight. Have fun
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22:21 <@Haarg> bleh.  style cleanups are extremely annoying when merging.
22:22 <+perlDreamer> sorry
22:22  * perlDreamer went a little crazy with detabification
22:22 <@Haarg> and $self->session -> $session :)
22:22 <+perlDreamer> that's not style, that's speed
22:22 <@preaction> anyone for making .wgpkg no longer compressed? or work with/without compression?
22:22 <+perlDreamer> why?
22:23 <@Haarg> working with or without sounds reasonable, but why?
22:23 <@preaction> so wgpkg can be easily version controlled
22:23 <@preaction> and incidentally, edited using normal tools (instead of requiring wgd or other de-archiver)
22:24 <+perlDreamer> tar zxf works pretty well :)
22:24 <@Haarg> i think it would be better to make a different format for it rather than relying on tar in that case
22:24 <@preaction> yes, then you have to find the right 00000100000200000030000010000040000030000020000001000003.json file to edit
22:24 <@preaction> hate hate hate. should be all nicely self-contained in one file somehow
22:25 <@Haarg> i agree it would be preferable to have upgrade content be in plain text
22:26 <@Haarg> but i don't think tar archives are the way to go
22:26 <+perlDreamer> shar?
22:26 <@preaction> no, a normal JSON archive would work better
22:26 <@Haarg> i personally like wgd's format, but it's kind of odd and uses YAML
22:26 <@Haarg> the other problem is binary files
22:27 <@Haarg> we need a way to handle them as well
22:27 <@preaction> assets : { 'relative lineage' : { asset props }, 'relative lineage' : { asset props } } <- something like that
22:27 <@Haarg> lineage is ignored in the packages anyway
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22:28 <+perlDreamer> binary content could be uuencoded
22:28 < kimd> preaction, I am trying to follow your instructions.
22:28 < kimd> But I ran into a problem.
22:29 < kimd> The code for RFE11412 is in a separate branch.
22:29 < kimd> I switched to that branch using 'git checkout rfe11412'
22:29 < kimd> and tried to revert the last commit.
22:30 < kimd> That produced an error, however.
22:30 <@preaction> what error?
22:30 < kimd> Apparently, the files modified since then were not reset to the last status.
22:30 < kimd> error: Entry 'lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/GalleryAlbum.pm' not uptodate. Cannot merge.
22:30 < kimd> fatal: merging of trees 538fa7ec25b5855780bc15680fc49a20c1f7cc07 and e65258ea5386be2207bf08b8cc89efe9f9394403 failed
22:31 < kimd> I tried to reset to the status after that commit with 'git reset'.
22:31 <@preaction> oh, no, you want "git checkout"
22:31 < kimd> Seemed to work. But I am not entirely sure. Was that correct.
22:31 <@preaction> git checkout == svn reset
22:31 <@preaction> "not uptodate" means there are local changes
22:31 < kimd> I did checkout before.
22:31 < kimd> Exactly.
22:31 < kimd> I need to get rid of these or I cannot revert that particular commit.
22:32 < kimd> No worries, I saved the file that had been changed.
22:32 < kimd> Was 'git reset' correct?
22:32 <@preaction> no, git checkout is what you want
22:32 <@preaction> checkout will change the file to the last committed revision
22:32 < kimd> But it doesn't restore the original state in that branch.
22:32 < kimd> It only seems to change to that branch.
22:32 < kimd> Local modifications remain in the working copy.
22:34 <@preaction> you have to git checkout every modified file. or "git checkout ." (it's recursive by default)
22:34 < kimd> Hm.
22:36 <@tavisto> preaction, it's time for wG to have a new default style. We've pasted fugly now
22:36 <+perlDreamer> git reset --hard HEAD
22:36 <+perlDreamer> that will reset the whole thing back to the last commit
22:37 <@preaction> tavisto: i concur. should we grab a dozen from the bazaar, include them in the 7.9.x series, and ask a poll for the winner of "default"?
22:37 <@preaction> i figure a dozen choices should be good for a default site style, no?
22:37 <@tavisto> I've been using the underground style and it's amazing.. with a few tweaks it would be wonderful
22:37 <@tavisto> Kristi and I were talking and we like the Bloo style too
22:37 <@tavisto> many of the ones in the bazaare not all that great
22:38 <@preaction> if we can't find a dozen passable ones, we can get Dagitz on making up a couple more from the OSWD or other free ones
22:38 <@tavisto> we need something web 2.0ish though.. our design almost looks kiddish
22:38 <@preaction> i'm sure Swanson would appreciate the sentiment (but it was very early in his career) ;)
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22:39 <@preaction> does our Site Starter Wizard allow picking from existing style templates?
22:39 <@tavisto> absolutely not. That's something I've been wanting for a long time. The ability to choose one of the designs in the bazaare
22:39 <@preaction> we also need to change "Site Starter" to "Home Page Wizard" (so it can be run after the initial setup)
22:40 <@preaction> well, that's a LOT more difficult, but we can include a few with the default install and let ppl choose from the installed templates pretty easily
22:40 <@tavisto> I think that if people could get their design included in the options for wG core, then that would be motivation to make some more.. But for starters.. replacing the default would be most excellent
22:40 <@preaction> and I do need to schedule some RFE days, despite what JT says about WG8 being my only priority (the status quo must be maintained)
22:41 <@tavisto> and yes, I know Steve made the last design. But it's so dated so it's not his fault
22:41 <@preaction> well, adding a drop-down box with a "Preview" button is pretty easy to do
22:41 <@tavisto> yeah, see that's what I'm talking about
22:41 <@tavisto> I think many people find webGUI but just turn away when they see the default templates aren't pretty or "what they are used to"
22:41 <+perlDreamer> the Template Style wizard is close to what y'all want
22:42 <+perlDreamer> and it can be run after install
22:42 <+perlDreamer> but the Style Wizard and Site Starter have different features
22:42 <+perlDreamer> there's an RFE to merge that
22:42 <@preaction> not really. it generates a new style template. a horrible-looking shitty style template.
22:42 <@tavisto> Here's a good example... Today I had a webinar at 2:30 ... the person attending laughed when she saw the default design. 
22:42 <@preaction> nice
22:42 <@tavisto> she said... oh my gosh.. where is THIS design from!
22:42 <@tavisto> I always play it off as just an old community design... but that's gotta stop
22:42 <+perlDreamer> tavisto, WebGUI ships with 3 different style already
22:43 <@tavisto> yeah those can all be scrapped and replaced if you ask me
22:43 <@tavisto> I change them all the time during webinars when I'm taking people through templating
22:43 <@tavisto> Kristi and I are okay with going thru the default content and making adjustments too
22:43 <@Haarg> http://github.com/haarg/webgui/tree/webgui-8.0-merge well, i'm up to 7.8.2 :/
22:43 < CIA-104> webgui: Graham Knop webgui-8.0-merge * rdabce3e / (368 files in 116 dirs): Merge commit 'v7.8.2' into webgui-8.0-merge - http://bit.ly/bjczc9
22:44 <@tavisto> we just want Doug's buy-in so that we can get something to replace the default. I'm ALL for making the style wizard better though... (with even a choice of 3-4 designs... or a box to insert a wgpackage)
22:45 <@preaction> okay, so tavisto, between the two of you come up with a list of styles from the bazaar you think are good enough to go into core. once that's done, i'll take some of my free time and put a dropdown and preview button in (a new Style form control). we'll get this into 7.9
22:46 <@preaction> if you can't come up with an even dozen, go to OSWD or http://www.styleshout.com/free-templates.php and pick some to make the difference
22:46 <@preaction> i prefer the styleshout guy's templates, but it's only one guy
22:46 <@tavisto> yeah I was wondering if we could even use the converted ones from OSWD or the Styleshout ones
22:46 <@tavisto> can we bundle that in wG?
22:47 <+perlDreamer> only if the licenses allow it
22:47 <@preaction> yes, the styleshout ones are CC-attribution. the OSWD all have different licenses but that's the idea
22:47 <@preaction> Open-Source Web Designs
22:47 <@tavisto> Ok, you really want to let people vote on 12 different ones? I was thinking like 3
22:47 <@preaction> and the styleshout guy would be really excited if 12 of his templates were included with WebGUI
22:47 <@preaction> 3 is pathetic. not even worth the effort.
22:47 <@preaction> give them some REAL choice
22:47 <@tavisto> for the new default I mean
22:48 <@tavisto> oh brother, I've created a monster
22:48 <@preaction> oh, there's one "default", it's the one that is picked by default. but people can choose between 12 during the site starter wizard
22:48 <@tavisto> Alright, yeah I'm down with the option of 12
22:48 <@preaction> so we pick the most compatible one as a default, and have the other 11 as options
22:49 <@tavisto> Yeah that works
22:50 <+perlDreamer> preaction, you might want to run this past TWG.  They just finished cleaning up Style 01, Style 02 and Style 03 templates and CSS
22:50 <@preaction> heh, yeah that's probably a good idea
22:50 <@preaction> maybe they'll help even
22:50 <+perlDreamer> hopefully!
22:50 <@tavisto> yikes, they've been working on those old junky templates... ahhhhh
22:50 <@tavisto> Well Bloo was designed by Rogier
22:50 <@tavisto> so that one he'd like. :)
22:51 <+perlDreamer> and if you don't pick underground as the winner, you're all fools
22:51 <@tavisto> exactly
22:51 <@tavisto> I love the underground!!!
22:51 <@tavisto> so does...wait for it....
22:51 <@preaction> and also this could be a test of the current set of TWG templates
22:51 <@tavisto> KOEN!
22:51 <@preaction> good god... it took me like an hour...
22:51 <@tavisto> If he likes it... it's a miracle
22:51 <@preaction> he uses it for webgui.nl iirc
22:51 <+perlDreamer> yup
22:52 <@tavisto> yessir
22:52 <@tavisto> that's my vote
22:52 <@tavisto> but, you're right this guy at styleshout has some good ones
22:52 <@preaction> underground is one of his
22:52 <@tavisto> yep
22:58 <+perlDreamer> I'd let y'all have the one for perlDreamer.com, but I like having the coolest website
22:59 <@Haarg> perlDreamer, one of the things i saw when merging was a commit that converted autoGenerate=>0 to noFormPost=>0 in Product
22:59 <@Haarg> am i missing something or is that the wrong way around?
22:59 <+perlDreamer> there is no more autoGenerate
22:59 <+perlDreamer> it's noFormPost for now
23:00 <@Haarg> yes, but wouldn't it be noFormPost => 1 ?
23:00 <+perlDreamer> yes
23:00 <@Haarg> ok
23:00 <+perlDreamer> maybe we need a pleaseFormPost option, too
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23:36 <@tavisto> preaction, could wG easily support "cat" authentication through the pluggable authentication that we support? My assumption is that we could dev a plugin to handle that
23:37 <@preaction> what is cat auth?
23:37 <@tavisto> It was brought up a couple times in the webinar I hosted today. It's a air force base and they kept asking about it
23:37 <+perlDreamer> it sees if you are a cat
23:37 <+perlDreamer> if you are, it lets you in
23:37 <@tavisto> well what I can find on google is that it's Cellular Authentication Token
23:37 <+perlDreamer> if you're not, it unleases a dog on your sorry buttocks
23:37 <@tavisto> but that doesn't seem right. Is there something close those letters
23:40 <@tavisto> hmm maybe she was saying CAS
23:41 <@tavisto> CAS would make more sense.. but I swear she kept saying CAT or something like ti
23:41 <@tavisto> I didn't want to look like a doofus and ask her what she was talking about.. Figured I would just look it up afterwards :)
23:48 <+perlDreamer> dude, you're not a dev.  You can safely look like a doofus
23:53 <@tavisto> for something like auth I've heard just about everything... just not that.
23:54 <@tavisto> I basically just tiptoed thru the convo about auth and said that our pluggable auth could support anything although some custom dev would be required
23:54 <+perlDreamer> that's probably true
23:54 <@tavisto> yep, has been in all cases in the past
23:55 <@tavisto> perlDreamer, do you have paypal implemented yet?
23:55 <@tavisto> the answer had better be yes!
23:55 <+perlDreamer> no, frodwith did it last year
23:55 <+perlDreamer> it's very nicely done, too
23:55 <@frodwith> why thank you!
23:55 <@tavisto> ok... and so
23:55 <@tavisto> it's not in the core and ready to go for what reason
23:56 <@tavisto> who do I have to karate chop into oblivion
23:56 <+perlDreamer> it's in the core and has been for > 6 months
23:56 <+perlDreamer> what do you want, tavisto?
23:56 <@tavisto> if that's the case then what's preventing us from using it
23:56 <+perlDreamer> Which "us" are you talking about?
23:56 <@tavisto> TGC
23:57 <+perlDreamer> a) You're not up to date enough yet
23:57 <+perlDreamer> b) It's not setup correctly?
23:57 <+perlDreamer> I can check on (a)
23:57 <@tavisto> interesting
23:57 <@tavisto> no it is listed as a payment method option
23:58 <@tavisto> hmmmm..... 
23:58 <+perlDreamer> tavisto, do I need to come over there, stick my feet into your armpits and ride you like a pogo stick?
23:58 <@tavisto> you need to do that to whoever hasn't enabled paypal for TGC
23:58 <+perlDreamer> get off your lazy, potato wearing butt and set it up so we can us it already!
23:59 <@tavisto> because we've had requests for that
23:59 <@tavisto> I thought we were waiting on something (testing, bug fixing, etc... full implementation)
23:59 <@tavisto> I'm about to go Chuck Norris on our devs for this
23:59 <+perlDreamer> __thought__
23:59 <+perlDreamer> why don't you offer to buy frodwith a beverage of choice, and have him walk you through a setup?
--- Day changed Thu Mar 25 2010
00:00 <@tavisto> I can't buy him anything, because PAYPAL isn't ACTIVATED
00:00 <@tavisto> ;)
00:00 <@Haarg> afaik there is a real reason it isn't enabled on tgc
00:00 <@tavisto> *Tavisto pulls out his machine gun*
00:00 <@frodwith> yeah, I remember there being a reason
00:01 <@frodwith> but I don't remember what it was.
00:01 <+perlDreamer> what's the reason, Haarg?
00:01 <@tavisto> hehe, i love it
00:01 <@Haarg> don't remember
00:01 <+perlDreamer> preaction, you're next up
00:01 <+perlDreamer> Why can't we use the PayPal driver that's in the core?
00:02 <@tavisto> I'll take Random wG Questions for 400, Alex
00:02 <@frodwith> The answer is: another daily double!
00:02 <@tavisto> DAMN YOU AND YOUR DAILY DOUBLE YA BRIGAND!
00:03 <+perlDreamer> I'll wager half, Alex.
00:03 <@tavisto> Despite your best efforts.... The letter V is a number.. Let's see what you wagered.....
00:04  * perlDreamer wagered half, perlDr
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00:10 < CIA-104> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra10e65f / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Story.pm : Use Moose method modifiers for overriding addRev in Story. - http://bit.ly/c1NiWN
00:10 < CIA-104> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r56fcb76 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/StoryArchive.pm : Rework StoryArchive for exceptions and modifiers. - http://bit.ly/aHh0Dm
00:10 < CIA-104> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8a3f36a / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Article.pm : Fix an accessor name. - http://bit.ly/aXzGqG
00:11 <@Haarg> eamer, have you dealt with allowEmpty in webgui 8?
00:11 <+eamer> from what I'm seeing, we can't stop it from happening
00:11 <+eamer> Moose accessors will happily be set to undef
00:12 <@Haarg> ok
00:12 <@Haarg> how it should be imo
00:12 <+eamer> I concur
00:14  * eamer goes for a run to blow off steam
00:15 <@Haarg> well, i have up to 7.8.10 merged (untested)
00:15 <@Haarg> going to have to take a break from that
00:25 <@frodwith> i thought required on an attribute made it so undef wasn't okay
00:26 <@frodwith> hmm, guess not.
00:28 <@frodwith> you can do isa =.> 'Defined' thoug
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01:54 <+eamer> required just means it has to be present when the object is instanciated
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02:01 < CIA-104> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r54f0148 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Article.pm : Use lots and lots of Moose modifiers in the Article. - http://bit.ly/aDVCag
02:02 < CIA-104> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r237eaa9 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Add a version tag so we work on a committed parent. - http://bit.ly/anUV3g
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03:26 < CIA-104> webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r743e57c / t/tests/Test/WebGUI/Asset/Story.pm : Add a test for the Story asset. - http://bit.ly/cWHwmc
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16:37 < carogray> In the middle of a tutorial. My content manager's version tag isn't showing up anywhere - where should I look?
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16:40 <+bartjol> maybe in admin mail
16:40 <+bartjol> inbox in the sitre
16:40 <+bartjol> if you have configured that it should be confirmed
16:41 <+bartjol> carogray: that is my first guess
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16:56 < carogray> I gave up on teaching while trying to figure this out.
16:56 < carogray> checking admin mail
16:57 <+patspam> yay, I received my american now-we-believe-that-you-exist card
17:05 < carogray> nothing in admin mail
17:06 < carogray> the article is locked
17:06 < carogray> I click on revisions - it takes me to committed version tags list
17:06 < carogray> however the changes that were made were not made in any of those version tags
17:07 < carogray> there should be an automatically created version tag somewhere, but it is not showing up anywhere.
17:07 < carogray> My user is a content manager with UI level 9-guru
17:07 < carogray> I have given him the ability to have multiple version tags
17:07 < carogray> originally he inherited from site settings.
17:08 < carogray> I changed this to various things in hopes of his version tag showing up, no luck
17:08 < carogray> I cannot figure out where else to look
17:13 <+bartjol> mmm
17:13 <+bartjol> I would go in the db
17:14 <+bartjol> but I assume that that is not an option
17:14 < carogray> ok...thatmeans pb support board
17:14 <+bartjol> what users are in the version tag managers group?
17:14 < carogray> It is an option but it would take me forever cause I only have done it every 2-3 year and it takes all day
17:14 < carogray> ah ha.. let me look
17:15 <+bartjol> become one of them and look in the inbox
17:15 < carogray> no one is in there
17:15 <+bartjol> what are the version tag settings?
17:16 < carogray> ok I am in there now
17:16 < carogray> the version tag settings?
17:16 < carogray> where would I find that?
17:16 <+bartjol> content tab in settings
17:16 <+bartjol> morning patspam
17:17 <+patspam> hey bart!
17:17 <+bartjol> made a nice nagios check that checks db connections for the dsn an all the slave's dsn
17:17 < carogray> oh duh ...multiple version tags per user - so when he inherited site settings he already had this
17:18 <+bartjol> and is approval requested?
17:18 <+patspam> nice
17:18 < carogray> default version tage workflow - commit without approval
17:18 <+patspam> we should start a collection of wG nagios checks
17:18 <+bartjol> yeah, they're starting to pile up
17:19 <+bartjol> only strange thing was that on my test server, when I used a bogus IP it took forever to finish, and now on the production it finishes in seconds
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17:20 <+bartjol> carogray: mmm I get a suspicion that there might be something wrong with spectre
17:21 <+bartjol> something to see if you go to workflows->show running workflows?
17:21 < carogray> that's what I was thinking...
17:21 < carogray> Ok - sending a notice to support board now. just didn't want it to be something dumb I had overlooked.
17:22 <+bartjol> oh, I suppose you also reported all your actions trying  to resolve it?
17:27 < carogray> yep, just did.
17:30 <+bartjol> reports that only state 'it doesn't work' are so.... disappointing
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18:01 <+perlDreamer> bartjol, what is the international calling prefix for The Netherlands?
18:01 <+bartjol> ow
18:01 <+bartjol> 0031
18:02 <+bartjol> +31
18:02 <+bartjol> so if you wanna caal me it is 0031618204196
18:02 < carogray> actually from the US it is 01131......
18:02 <+bartjol> sorry perlDreamer, I'm a bit slow today
18:02 <+bartjol> ah
18:03 < carogray> had to butt in International calling code from US is 011
18:03 < carogray> gets my English husband everytime and we have arguments involving the word 'stupid'
18:04 <+bartjol> :)
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18:09 <+perlDreamer> thanks to both of you
18:09 <+perlDreamer> my Dutch customer is very happy now
18:09 <@preaction> yay!
18:09 <+perlDreamer> and bartjol, if I ever need to call you to see if you want to go out for a beer, now I know how
18:11 <+bartjol> why do you steal dutch customers from us :P
18:12 <+perlDreamer> it's not stealing
18:12 <+perlDreamer> they hadn't worked with you yet
18:13 <+bartjol> ah
18:14  * perlDreamer goes to the gym
18:15 <+patspam> perlDreamer: $patspam->getId() returns a valid number now
18:17 <+bartjol> patspam: are you a perl object?
18:17 <+patspam> I aspire to be
18:18 <+patspam> actually I think I'd prefer to be a first-class anonymous function
18:19 <+bartjol> luckily, people here are normal
18:33 <+patspam> this is fascinating: http://lumberjaph.net/blog/index.php/2010/03/25/github-explorer/
18:54 <+bartjol> cool stuff, allthough the graphs are are a bit hard to interpret
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20:03 <@tavisto> perlDreamer, did Doug win 400 yesterday?
20:05 <@preaction> i don't know did i?
20:05 <@tavisto> did you know the reason why we couldn't use PayPal on TGC yet?
20:05 <@preaction> no
20:05 <@tavisto> that was the Random wG Question for 400 alex
20:05 <@preaction> ahh
20:05 <@preaction> i choose not to accept the assignment mr phelps
20:06 <@tavisto> the payment plugin resides on the TGC site so I'm wondering why we haven't activated it
20:06 <@tavisto> Mysteriously, no one seems to remember why we can't use it
20:18 <+perlDreamer> tavisto: only the Shadow knows....
20:19 <@tavisto> well son of ah bee
20:19 <@tavisto> that's it, I'm going to opencms
20:20 <@preaction> don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out
20:21 <@tavisto> ok I'm back, opencms sucks
20:24 <+perlDreamer> how about if we just try it out?
20:24 <+perlDreamer> make the driver private, so only Admins can use it
20:24 <+perlDreamer> and we try the checkout
20:25 <@tavisto> I noticed there is a test sandbox w/ paypal
20:25 <@tavisto> But I was just bringing up the question since it was requested a few times on TGC and it appears like we could enable it
20:48 <+perlDreamer> Quit grousing, and test it!
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22:31 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, does the "+" attribute override syntax work on properties?
22:32 <@Haarg> i haven't really tested it.
22:33 <+perlDreamer> I was working on a Sku that doesn't do ships separately, and got to thinking how to do that in wg8, and realized I had no idea myself
22:33 <+perlDreamer> I'll build some tests later
22:33 <+perlDreamer> we can always go through the meta class to get it and modify it
22:33 <@Haarg> yeah
22:33 <+perlDreamer> but sugary is easier
22:33 <@Haarg> the traits and form stuff may be problematic
22:34 <+perlDreamer> yes
22:34 <+perlDreamer> traits cannot be overridden
22:34 <+perlDreamer> what I'm really interested in is tab, and fieldType
22:37 <@Haarg> but the property code will probably try to override the traits
22:38 <@Haarg> and it won't find the correct trait list and will construct form wrong
22:38 <@Haarg> overriding fieldtype sounds like a bad idea
22:38 <@Haarg> not in that it will cause problems, but in that it should be handled in a different way
22:40 <+perlDreamer> you're right.  I think what I really mean is noFormPost.  Between that, and tab (and form) we can allow designers to do a lot
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23:35 <@preaction> would it be bad for us to FORCE captcha if a dataform is viewable by Everyone or Visitors?
23:35 <@preaction> i keep getting spam notices from the sites i administer, some from dataforms that the admins probably don't even know about (so i don't know how the heck the spambots found them)
23:36 <+perlDreamer> they're crawly little bastards
23:37 <@preaction> right? so why should we give them any opportunity? isn't it the idea of WebGUI to protect the content managers from things they shouldn't have to worry about, like spambots?
23:52 <@Haarg> preaction, you can see some examples of the upgrade thing i was working on at http://github.com/haarg/webgui/tree/upgrades/t/supporting_collateral/Upgrade/ although they are tests so they aren't quite normal.
23:56 <@Haarg> like you said, it's not a high priority thing.  just wanted to make sure i wasn't going in the wrong direction with it.
23:56 <@preaction> i'll look later, right now i'm trying to figure out how to unravel PIRG's dev server. there is no way this should work at all, and yet here it is, partially working.
23:57 <@Haarg> oh fun
23:57 <@preaction> they've got an image that shows up, only in https mode
23:57 <@preaction> there's only one https site on this apache server, and it does not have the image (document root doesn't even exist)
23:58 <@preaction> wait. apache lets you have a documentroot that doesn't exist?
23:58 <@preaction> yep, apparently
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--- Day changed Fri Mar 26 2010
00:17 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, is there a good solution for getting DataForm data out in CSV format?
00:17 <+perlDreamer> I'm not thinking of anything easy
00:18 <@preaction> is TSV not as good?
00:18 <@Haarg> it does tab separated exports.  that's about the only option.  easy to convert that though.
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00:20 <+perlDreamer> when was that feature added?
00:21 <@Haarg> 2004
00:22 <@Haarg> it's always been part of the dataform
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02:23 <@preaction> uh... so if 00_compile.t doesn't pass I don't get to run the test suite?
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03:43 <+perlDreamer> Moose 1.0 is released!
03:44 <+perlDreamer> with kudos for documentation patches for Haarg
03:44 <+perlDreamer> nice work, dude
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04:05 < CIA-104> webgui: kimd master * r8104338 / (10 files in 7 dirs): Added additional navigation to the photo asset (RFE 11412). - http://bit.ly/aRK3Bx
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04:12 <+perlDreamer> working late, dionak?
04:12 < dionak> no, just popped on to check directions for a meeting tomorrow. you, perlDreamer?
04:12 < dionak> must be 7pm there
04:12 <+perlDreamer> pretty much every night for me
04:12 < dionak> big project?
04:13 <+perlDreamer> taking care of the kids during day costs me a few hours of work each night to make up for it
04:13 < dionak> ah
04:13 <+perlDreamer> for example, today was science project day
04:13 < dionak> that must be a great lifestyle though.
04:13 <+perlDreamer> I really like it
04:13 < dionak> nice! :)
04:13 < CIA-104> webgui: Doug Bell master * r47687a9 / (6 files in 2 dirs): moved packages to right place for 7.9.2 - http://bit.ly/9jkNmF
04:13 < CIA-104> webgui: Doug Bell master * r57d6366 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : added changelog entry - http://bit.ly/bUMYik
04:13 < dionak> sounds like a lot of fun
04:14 <+perlDreamer> there are days, and there are days
04:14 <+perlDreamer> today was a good one
04:14 < dionak> i'm sure
04:14 <+perlDreamer> any day you can put mentos into soda bottles you can be sure that good things will happen
04:14 < dionak> you have two kids?
04:14 <+perlDreamer> yes
04:15 < dionak> girl and a boy? 
04:15 <+perlDreamer> two boys
04:15 < dionak> oh, wow. you have your hands full! haha
04:15 <+perlDreamer> oh, yeah
04:16 < dionak> are you attending the wuc again this year? we've been discussing presentations lately.
04:16 <+perlDreamer> I would really like to attend this year, but budgeting is rough
04:16 <+perlDreamer> especially with Kathy in school full time
04:16 < dionak> yea, i think it's that way all around
04:16 <+perlDreamer> is Knowmad attending in force again?
04:17 < dionak> we're planning to, all three of us
04:17 <+perlDreamer> awesome
04:17 < dionak> hence the thoughts about presenting. it helps with the budget
04:17 < dionak> and we love madison. great town
04:18 <+perlDreamer> yes, it's a nice place
04:18 <+perlDreamer> if all goes to plan, my family will be attending the WUC in 2013
04:18 <+perlDreamer> when they finish the train line there
04:18 < dionak> nice. would love to meet them
04:18 <@preaction> heh, yeah that'll never happen
04:18 <+perlDreamer> bite your tongue, preaction!
04:19 <+perlDreamer> they were shocked that any state's capitol would not be served by Amtrak
04:19 < dionak> uh yea...with our stellar train system that is surprising ;)
04:19 < dionak> how are things at PB? busy?
04:20  * perlDreamer doesn't know.  perlDreamer is only a small cog in a big machine
04:20 < dionak> lol
04:21 <+perlDreamer> had to slip in a Blazing Saddles quote
04:21 < dionak> i've got to get to bed. i'm not an early bird and i have a 7am meeting tomorrow. 
04:21 <+perlDreamer> good luck :)
04:22 < dionak> tks. good night to you both. hope to see you this year if you can make it to WUC
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04:22 <+perlDreamer> I think I'm going to call it a night as well
04:23 <+perlDreamer> good night, preaction
04:23 <@preaction> night
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15:16 < SDuensin> Greetings.
15:17 <+MrHairgrease> Greasings!
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16:29 <+bartjol> hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
16:29 <+MrHairgrease> BartJol: alles ok?
16:29  * bartjol is trying to stay zen while updating windows with a customer breathing in my neck
16:30 <+MrHairgrease> hmmmm, customer breath
16:31 <+bartjol> doing all his updates from long ago and first reaction is, "gaat het nog lang duren????"
16:37 <+MrHairgrease> well, and is it?
16:40 <+bartjol> it will take a long time
16:40 <+bartjol> close to infinite
16:41 <+MrHairgrease> close to infinite is infinite as well
16:41 <+MrHairgrease> so I guess you'r missing out on the vrimibo
16:44 <+bartjol> I just devide by zero, and escape via the error
16:46 <+MrHairgrease> right...
16:58 < SDuensin> You said "Windows".  Watch your mouth!
17:02 <+bartjol> SDuensin: sorry, just washed it with soap
17:07 < SDuensin> Dang.  The GWT compiler is slow.  I don't remember it being that slow last time I used it.
17:08 <+bartjol> maybe you're fast
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17:39 < seriftron> does anyone know what (mis)configuration can cause the wrong webgui site to be returned on a multi-site setup?
17:40 < seriftron> i've checked mod_proxy and /etc/hosts and the webgui config and things look okay.
17:40 <+bartjol> maybe an /etc/hosts file issue
17:40 <+bartjol> ah
17:40 < seriftron> i'm using stock configs except for the addition of some serveraliases in the mod_proxy conf
17:41 < seriftron> and i can tell from the mod_proxy logs that the correct document root for the hostname is being returned, just not the correct site
17:41 <+MrHairgrease> seriftron: prolly the virtual host of the site doesn't have the right servername or serveralias
17:42 <+bartjol> that might also happen in the moperl conf or the sitename in the webgui conf
17:42 <+MrHairgrease> also, did you estart mod_proxy afeter settin the serveraliases
17:42 < seriftron> yes. double-checking vhost names with the webgui.conf sitename...
17:43 <+bartjol> veters?
17:43 <+MrHairgrease> bart, what do you mean?
17:44 <+bartjol> are they tightened?
17:44 <+MrHairgrease> yup
17:45 <+bartjol> oh, I stole some code from you
17:46 <+MrHairgrease> right..
17:46 <+MrHairgrease> well, have fun with it
17:46 <+bartjol> thanks
17:49 < seriftron> hm, everything looks alright. i guess i will turn up logging for mod_perl and mod_proxy and continue debugging
17:49 < seriftron> thanks guys
17:50 <+bartjol> ok, good luck
17:50 <+MrHairgrease> indeed
17:50 <+MrHairgrease> good luck
17:50 < seriftron> thanks
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17:57 <+bartjol> hey kimd, already have a Gooey?
17:57 < kimd> Yes! I got one. Kind gift from oqapi. 
17:57 < kimd> They sent me two in fact.
17:57 < kimd> My daughter loves hers.
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17:58 < kimd> As soon as I get to it, I will post a photo of mine.
17:58 < kimd> How is business going?
17:58 <+MrHairgrease> business is almost weekend!
17:58 <+MrHairgrease> which is good
17:58 < kimd> Weekend is always good. Mine has started already.
17:59  * MrHairgrease envies kimd
18:00 < kimd> Don't be envious. It is my single week of vacation before I need to move and start work at my new employer.
18:00 < kimd> I was pretty worn out the week before.
18:01 <+MrHairgrease> I'm not really.
18:01 <+MrHairgrease> We have beer here
18:01 <+MrHairgrease> =)
18:01 < kimd> I see. Is that the typical Friday afternoon? Casual Friday?
18:01 <+MrHairgrease> Nope.
18:01 <+MrHairgrease> Just Friday
18:02 < kimd> So, where is that where you get served beer at work on Friday afternoons?
18:02 <+MrHairgrease> At Oqapi of course =)
18:03 <+MrHairgrease> and the boss is serving
18:03 < kimd> Ah, cool! Thanks for the two Gooeys!
18:03 < kimd> I love mine already.
18:04 < kimd> It's hanging right next to me.
18:04 < kimd> A true source of inspiration.
18:04  * kimd is getting thirsty. (Too much talking of beer)
18:04 <+MrHairgrease> I understand completely
18:06 < kimd> We will have beer tomorrow. Lots of beer.
18:06 < kimd> If you don't mind to come all the way over here you are invited, of course!
18:06 < kimd> We are going to have a small farewell party with friends.
18:06 <+MrHairgrease> tomorrow will be kind of difficult
18:07 <+MrHairgrease> too bad...
18:07 < kimd> Next time in Basel, then.
18:07 < kimd> You could even fly there (in contrast to Heidelberg).
18:08 <+MrHairgrease> I'm going to Swiss in september, and then we'll be driving through basel
18:08 <+MrHairgrease> so who knows
18:09 <+MrHairgrease> but you are moving down south then?
18:10 < kimd> We should have moved completely and be ready for guests in September.
18:10 < kimd> Drop me a note before you travel.
18:10 <+MrHairgrease> who knows
18:10 <+MrHairgrease> are you going to the wuc?
18:11 < kimd> No, unfortunately not. The flight + extras is too expensive for me.
18:11 < kimd> I do not have an employer covering it.
18:11 <+MrHairgrease> i see
18:11 <+MrHairgrease> yeah, that's my luck
18:11 < kimd> Maybe, I will combine the wuc with some nice holiday trip in the future.
18:12 <+MrHairgrease> otherwise it wou;d've nbeen very expensove for me as well
18:12 < kimd> But if the dutch community should organize something in the Netherlands, I would not hesitate to join...
18:13 <+MrHairgrease> I you happen to pass through the netherlands, just let us know. 
18:14 <+bartjol> beer will be cold
18:14 <+bartjol> at oqapi
18:14 <+bartjol> not at procolix
18:15 < kimd> Does that mean I should bring my own beer?
18:15 < kimd> Or at least some dry ice?
18:16 <+bartjol> well, we are next to oqapi
18:16 <+bartjol> so if we smile polite and ask for a beer, you are ok
18:17 <+MrHairgrease> scerw that, we'll go to the bar
18:17 < kimd> Good news. At oqapi then.
18:17 < kimd> Even better.
18:17 <+MrHairgrease> my idea
18:17 <+bartjol> now?
18:18 <+MrHairgrease> uhm
18:18 <+MrHairgrease> about 30 mins ok
18:19 < kimd> Have fun! I will go groceries shopping now.
18:19 < kimd> Everyone a nice weekend!
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20:02 < ckotil> anyone have an addon for webgui to mimic git or svn for file management?
20:02 <+perlDreamer> What kind of files, ckotil?
20:02 <+perlDreamer> Asset files, or collateral support files?
20:03 < ckotil> asset file
20:03 <+perlDreamer> I've never heard of anything like that
20:03 <+perlDreamer> rizen has done some work with DAV, but nothing with git/svn
20:04 < ckotil> yeah, ive been following that closely. its been stalled.
20:04 <+perlDreamer> it needs a dev
20:04 < ckotil> it would be nice to have an svn interface so you could say `svn diff local.file webgui.asset` 
20:05 <+perlDreamer> you could look into Padre for that
20:05 <+perlDreamer> patspam has been a wonderful WebGUI plugin that may do just that
20:06 <+perlDreamer> the diff part, anyway
20:06 < ckotil> cool
20:07 <+patspam> or you can use wgd to serialise your assets to local files, and turn that into a local repo
20:07 < ckotil> that's not a bad idea.
20:08 <+patspam> I showed how to do it at the wuc last year
20:08 <+perlDreamer> wgd requires you to be on the server.  Will Padre let users do that from their desktops?
20:08 <+patspam> I think graham built a plugin for wgd to do the serialising properly now too
20:08 <+patspam> Padre lets you edit remotely
20:09 <+patspam> so you can e.g. edit templates with a html-aware editor
20:09 <+patspam> it can show you diffs between saved/unsaved, but it doesn't (yet) have support to pull out old revisions
20:09 <+patspam> that would be cool
20:09 <+patspam> probably wouldn't be that hard either
20:10 <+perlDreamer> not if it can already talk to WebGUI
20:10 <+patspam> it shows you the remote site's asset tree inside padre, and already has context-menu support
20:10 < ckotil> sounds promising, ill have to check it out
20:10 <+patspam> currently the only 2 options are "Edit" and "Info" (that just shows you meta-data for the asset)
20:11 <+patspam> you could have another that shows you the list of revisions for the asset, then lets you open that revision, or directly launch the diff etc..
20:12 <+perlDreamer> maybe I should try some Padre hackery
20:12 <+perlDreamer> is the GUI stuff hard to learn?
20:17 < ckotil> patspam: if i were to use wgd to serialize assets to local files, could i then sync those files back to my assets?
20:18 <+patspam> yes
20:18 <+patspam> perlDreamer: the only hard part is that the WxPerl docs really suck
20:18 < ckotil> i can envision svn kicking off the workflow to do that :)
20:19 <+patspam> most Padre plugins live in Alias' svn repo, so mostly I just ack for similar examples to what I want to do
20:19 <+patspam> or ask on #padre
20:19 <+patspam> ckotil: that would be awesome
20:20 <+patspam> Haarg invented a YAML-based serialisation format for assets
20:20 <+patspam> "wgd edit" uses it to allow you to edit assets and their meta-data via your $EDITOR
20:21 <+patspam> it serialises, then spawns an editor with the text-based serialisation for you to edit, then deserialises and commits back to your site as a new revision
20:23 <+patspam> when I was doing it I was using my own wgd plugin called snapshot
20:23 <+patspam> but I think export-branch is the new plugin for doing it
20:23 < ckotil> ohh nice.
20:24 <+patspam> combined with "wgd import"
20:24 <+perlDreamer> yes, export-branch sounds right
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21:02  * perlDreamer goes running, and ponders code organization and roles
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22:24 <+patspam> sounds like a dangerous combination
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23:29 <+patspam> wonderful, paypal has changed their API so that if the cmd=_xclick form you POST to them contains unrecognised params, it no longer works
23:29 <+patspam> webguiCsrfToken, for example
23:30 <@Haarg> wonderful
23:30 <+patspam> https://www.x.com/thread/42018
23:30 <+patspam> one solution is to change the form method from POST to GET
23:30 <+patspam> which is kinda ugly
23:31 <+patspam> I'm going to patch my WebGUI::Form::getHeader to make the CSRF thing controllable
23:38 <+patspam> actually getting rid of webguiCsrfToken doesn't fix it, so far the only thing that works for me is changing POST to GET
23:39 <+perlDreamer> patspam, O'Reilly just put out a CFP for Open Source in Health Care
23:40 <+perlDreamer> there's a whole track about it at OSCON this year
23:40 <+perlDreamer> http://radar.oreilly.com/2010/03/why-health-care-is-coming-to-t.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+oreilly%2Fradar%2Fatom+%28O%27Reilly+Radar%29
23:40 <+patspam> cool!
23:45 <+patspam> ah nailed it!
23:45 <+patspam> paypal now refuses POST with enctype="multipart/form-data"
23:45 <+patspam> which is the default for WebGUI::Form::formHeader unless you provide an explicit enctype
23:46 <+patspam> changing it to 'application/x-www-form-urlencoded' works, and you don't need to remove the webguiCsrfToken
23:48 <+perlDreamer> phew
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--- Day changed Sat Mar 27 2010
00:20 < kimd> perlDreamer, here (http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/10994) you say that you added a progress bar to the gallery when uploading zip archives.
00:20 <+perlDreamer> yes, kimd
00:20 < kimd> I just updated to 7.8.15.
00:20 < kimd> There is no progress bar.
00:20 <+perlDreamer> hm
00:20 < kimd> Is that a templating issue?
00:21 < kimd> I am not using the default templates.
00:21 < CIA-104> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r0a49321 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Sku/Donation.pm : Fix typo in POD - http://bit.ly/adWaoE
00:21 <+perlDreamer> it is a core issue
00:21 <+perlDreamer> perhaps it did not get backported
00:21  * perlDreamer will check
00:21 < kimd> You wrote "fixed in 7.7.21 and 7.8.1"
00:21 < kimd> My current version is 7.8.15
00:23 <+perlDreamer> this is odd, all the correct code is there
00:23 <+perlDreamer> let's set up a site and try importing an archive
00:24 < kimd> I will do that.
00:24 < kimd> I have an archive ready.
00:25 < kimd> Give me 5 minutes.
00:27 <+perlDreamer> I created a site from scratch (since I don't any sites to upgrade 7.8.15
00:27 <+perlDreamer> i added a Gallery, and put an album in the gallery
00:27 <+perlDreamer> I clicked the Add Photo link, then Add Archive
00:27 <+perlDreamer> Uploaded an archive, and a I got a Progress Bar
00:27 <+perlDreamer> quite beautiful and informative, if I do say so myself
00:28 <+perlDreamer> What have you done the Gallery, kimd?
00:28 < kimd> perlDreamer, I am stupid :-/
00:28 < kimd> I have a custom version of GalleryAlbum.pm installed.
00:28 < kimd> That must be the reason.
00:28 < kimd> I need to merge changes first.
00:28 < kimd> I am sorry for stealing your time.
00:28 <+perlDreamer> no sweat, dude
00:28 <+perlDreamer> what's custom about your Album?
00:29 <+perlDreamer> is it the drag and drop sorting, or something more?
00:29 < kimd> Exactly. Plus the navigation in the photo view.
00:29 < kimd> The stuff I want to submit to the core.
00:30 <+perlDreamer> this is a picture of my sons, at OSCON 2008 http://imagebin.ca/view/47Sn9qQ.html
00:31 <+perlDreamer> Has the navigation RFE been approved yet, kimd?
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00:32 < kimd> preaction was planning to include it in 7.9.1
00:32 <+perlDreamer> cool
00:32 <+perlDreamer> that's in two weeks, so there's lots of time for merging
00:32 < kimd> I have seen the commit in the webgui repo already.
00:32 <+perlDreamer> even better :)
00:33 < kimd> I am looking forward to it. There is so much work still to do on the gallery.
00:33 < kimd> I want it to become a really cool asset.
00:35 < kimd> pearlDreamer, where did you add that progress bar code?
00:35 < kimd> Is it the photo asset?
00:37 <+perlDreamer> it's in the album
00:37 <+perlDreamer> you can find the commit number in the bug report
00:38 < kimd> Hm, I cannot find it when comparing my version with the core version.
00:38 < kimd> The diff only returns my changes.
00:38 < kimd> Very strange.
00:40 < kimd> perlDreamer, when is the progress bar supposed to appear?
00:40 < kimd> After uploading or during uploading?
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00:51 < kimd> Ok, the progress bar is there. I just never got it to see because my archive was too big.
00:51 < kimd> modperl exited with the following error message:
00:51 < kimd> /home/spunky/Desktop/Steinbruch Schriesheim.zip
00:52 < kimd> [Fri Mar 26 23:16:39 2010] [error] [client 81.169.168.193] (20014)Internal error: Content-Length header (80392582) exceeds configured max_body limit (6710886
00:52 < kimd> 4), referer: http://www.klettern-md.de/home/geschichten/bunte-bilder/schriesheimer-steinbruch?func=addArchive
00:52 < kimd> Everything is fine then. Sorry again.
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23:11 <+perlDreamer> howdy, preaction
23:11 <@preaction> sup holme
23:11  * perlDreamer is plotting to take over the world
23:11 <@preaction> so, standard sunday afternoon then?
23:11 <+perlDreamer> pretty much
23:11 <+perlDreamer> you?
23:12 <@preaction> waging a war against the forces of influenza
23:12 <@preaction> i'm using unfair tactics: dayquil, nyquil, and vitamin supplements
23:13 <@preaction> but she's not going down without salting the earth after her...
23:13 <+perlDreamer> nasty
23:13 <+perlDreamer> Kathy's been fighting off an enterovirus for the last week and a half
23:13 <@preaction> in other news, IE9 supports SVG, yay!
23:13 <+perlDreamer> 'bout time, losers
23:14 <@preaction> i know right? and they don't say nothings about HTML5 or CSS3 modules
23:15 <+perlDreamer> you can bet that IE9 will not support SVG
23:15 <+perlDreamer> it will support SVT(TM)
23:15 <@preaction> but SVT will be backwards-compatible with SVG
23:21 <+perlDreamer> my optimism is low today
23:41 < Getty> you guys know chatroulette?
23:42 < Getty> its really impressive how one little idea makes a bang of new ideas that you can do with that concept... its always amazing
23:43 <+perlDreamer> never heard of chatroulette
23:45 < Getty> its random webcam chatting
23:45 < Getty> people make hilarious fun out of that, like that one, giving a concert for random people: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfamTmY5REw&feature=player_embedded
--- Day changed Mon Mar 29 2010
00:37 <+perlDreamer> preaction: it's good to be an international behemoth that can ignore standards...
00:38 <@preaction> isn't it?
00:38 <@preaction> it's been almost two weeks. i assume they are not going to "fix" it
00:49 <+perlDreamer> no, not likely at all
00:49 <+perlDreamer> but I wonder if anyone reported a bug about it?
00:49 <@preaction> in webgui? probably not yet
00:50 <+perlDreamer> no, I mean in PayPal
00:50 <@preaction> read the thread, people who are reporting bugs are being told that their software is out of date and sending nasty letters to the software developers who have no idea of what's going on
00:51 <+perlDreamer> ugh
00:54 <@preaction> it is clever though, the users have no idea that nobody was notified. just tell them "the software is using an outdated method of connecting that never should have been used" and they'll never believe that you were doing it in a standards-acceptable way
01:39 <+perlDreamer> read down to page 7
01:39 <+perlDreamer> it sounds like they are trying to come up with a workaround, but don't have an ETA
01:40  * perlDreamer suspects they need more testing
01:40 <+perlDreamer> not accepting &'s anymore is a pretty basic change
01:40 <+perlDreamer> of course, we only emit ;'s now
01:40 <@preaction> a workaround for what? they should be rolling back the changes
01:40 <@preaction> and not accepting & is breaking every web standard
01:41 <+perlDreamer> then why do we use ;'s ?
01:42 <@preaction> because the standard says [&;] and & doesn't require escaping inside HTML (&amp;)
01:42 <+perlDreamer> ah
01:43 <+perlDreamer> you know that feeling you get when you're writing code, that something just isn't right somewhere?
01:43 <@preaction> that's what i feel all the time, yes
01:44 <+perlDreamer> I don't think today's effort to take over the world will be successful
01:45 <@preaction> there's always tomorrow night, Brain
01:45 <+perlDreamer> yes, but what does that have to do with Rita Hayworth's brand of dental floss?
02:13 < CIA-104> webgui: Graham Knop master * r445486e / (4 files in 4 dirs): added: Sort Items switch to Syndicated Content asset - http://bit.ly/bfm7nk
02:19 <@Haarg> preaction, have a minute?
02:20 <@preaction> sorta kinda, dealing with flu right now, but go ahead
02:21 <@Haarg> do you see any problem with adding a setting for another group to edit users that would be able to edit all non-admin users, and be able to add users to all non-admin groups
02:22 <@Haarg> where admin in this case means the group to edit that we currently have
02:22 <@preaction> in addition to the former "Secondary Admin" group?
02:22 <@Haarg> yeah
02:22 <@preaction> or instead of? because i really hate the weird divisions that Secondary Admin group has
02:23 <@Haarg> well, secondary admins can only add users to groups they are a member of
02:23 <@preaction> i don't see a real problem, no, but it does just cement my belief that we need more fine-grained control over permissions
02:23 <@preaction> so yeah, sounds good. go ahead
02:23 <@Haarg> i'll have to see if i can get some tests written for this.  operation testing is ugly.
02:24 <@Haarg> it's already written for a client i just wanted to make sure it would be acceptable
02:24 <@preaction> you could refactor "getGroupsToAdd" and "getGroupsToRemove" methods and make sure they return the right groups
02:24 <@preaction> but yes, rather ugly
02:25 <@Haarg> i did clean that up a little already but it's still nasty
02:25 < CIA-104> webgui: Graham Knop usereditgroup * r445486e / (4 files in 4 dirs): added: Sort Items switch to Syndicated Content asset - http://bit.ly/bfm7nk
02:26 < CIA-104> webgui: Graham Knop usereditgroup * r4ee656b / (7 files in 6 dirs): added: Group to Edit users setting - http://bit.ly/b1bOpj
02:26 <@Haarg> i'll wait to stick it in core until i do a bit more cleanup and tests
02:26 <+perlDreamer> oh, that's a separate branch
02:26 <+perlDreamer> my bad, dude
02:27 <@Haarg> no, i stuck the sc change in master
02:27 <@Haarg> and it does need tests.  i have another branch sitting around that refactors the sc tests some, i should try to get that merged as well.
02:28 <+perlDreamer> I've been working on a 1-page checkout for WebGUI, and my eyes are crossed
02:29 <@preaction> perlDreamer: is this something Frank has you doing? otherwise we're working on fixing the 6-step process too
02:29 <+perlDreamer> no, it's a separate gig
02:46 <+perlDreamer> hey, can I put mini-cd's into a slot loading cd on a laptop?
02:49 <@preaction> uh... maybe?
02:49 <@preaction> i would google to make sure, i remember hearing one major expensive component of the Wii was a dual-size DVD reader
02:52 <+perlDreamer> turns out, no, you can't
02:52 <+perlDreamer> especially if you have a MacOSX
02:52 <+perlDreamer> I'll download the driver from Logitech, and then...
02:52 <+perlDreamer> Be prepared for Lego Star Wars greatness!
02:58 <+perlDreamer> preaction: are we supposed to autogenerate every form in wg8, or only edit forms?
03:06 <@preaction> you're not supposed to use WebGUI::Form::Controls by themselves if that's what you're asking
03:08 <+perlDreamer> this would be illegal, anywhere: $var->{username}    = WebGUI::Form::username($session, ...);
03:08 <+perlDreamer> and it's counterpart $username = $session->form->get('username', 'username');
03:10 <@preaction> $session->form->get(...) still fine (you may not be using WebGUI to send the form. but WebGUI::Form::username not fine
03:11 <@preaction> and WebGUI::Form::Username->new() also not fine
03:11 <+perlDreamer> okay
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08:21 < CIA-104> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rff0821d / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix typos in some calendar help. Fixes bug #11493 - http://bit.ly/aRBI7G
08:21 < CIA-104> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r400d94e / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix typos in some calendar help. Fixes bug #11493 - http://bit.ly/cE8JQW
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17:24 <+perlDreamer> good morning, wonderful WebGUI folk!
17:24 <+perlDreamer> today is a very good day
17:35 < kimd> Good morning, perlDreamer! I am glad you enjoy the day.
17:35 <+perlDreamer> the children are going to school today, which means peace and quiet in the house
17:36 < kimd> How pleasant. I am on my own myself and finally able to do some fun work this afternoon.
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17:42 <+perlDreamer> kimd, are you starting your new job soon?
17:42 < kimd> Tuesday next week. Would that be soon?
17:43 <+perlDreamer> that's pretty soon
17:43 < kimd> It's ok. I have had a week of vacation already.
17:46  * perlDreamer will be back soon.  I have to drop the kids off at school
18:01 <+perlDreamer> all right
18:01 <+perlDreamer> time to hack!
18:03 < kimd> Good hacking!
18:05  * bartjol takes cover
18:05 <+perlDreamer> today's hacking will involve the Gallery
18:05 -!- patspam1 [~patspam@ool-182e18a7.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #webgui
18:05 <+perlDreamer> which has about 5 bugs posted against it
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18:07 < kimd> Cool! Don't insert new ones.
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18:09 < kimd> preaction, were you able to find my second commit?
18:10 < kimd> I noticed, my patch didn't make it into 7.9.1.
18:25 < CIA-104> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r14b5897 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Gallery.pm): RSS links from Gallery need to include sitename. Fixes bug #11496 - http://bit.ly/9E4Phz
18:25 < CIA-104> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r0073826 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Gallery.pm): RSS links from Gallery need to include sitename. Fixes bug #11496 - http://bit.ly/donnRO
18:28 <+perlDreamer> hm
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18:35 < kimd> preaction, are you online now? Or is that just your computer being left on?
18:36 <@tavisto> preaction is sick, but yes he normally is logged into IRC even when he's not present at his computer
18:36 <+perlDreamer> kimd, he has a server with a persistent client
18:36 <+perlDreamer> then he pings it every so often
18:36 < kimd> I see. But what's the purpose? Does he want to log everything?
18:37 <+perlDreamer> yes
18:37 <@tavisto> he is an IRC nerd
18:37 <@tavisto> hehe j
18:37 <@tavisto> k
18:37 <+perlDreamer> the xdanger bot used to log everything, but it has become spotty
18:37 < kimd> spotty?
18:37 <+perlDreamer> sometimes on, sometimes off
18:37 < kimd> I understand. No one submitted a bug report?
18:38 <+perlDreamer> it's not submittable
18:38 <+perlDreamer> it's done by a volunteer from east europe
18:38 < kimd> Oh.
18:45 <@tavisto> perlDreamer, who owns  xdanger 
18:45 <+perlDreamer> not sure of his full name
18:45 <@tavisto> and when is xdreamer being released
18:45 <+perlDreamer> Jukka...
18:45 <@tavisto> ah okay
18:46 <+perlDreamer> the fact that he's logged our channel for so long is very generous
18:46 <+perlDreamer> just wish it was more consistent
18:46 <+perlDreamer> instead of xdreamer, it will be called tavistox
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18:54 <+bartjol> mmm, that sounds toxic
18:54 <+perlDreamer> could be a good name for a strong beer
18:56 < kimd> Sorry for interrupting. But how can I check for the first entry in a loop?
18:57 < kimd> Was it something like <tmpl_if FIRST> ?
18:57 <+bartjol> I've some Romanian booze,
18:57 <+perlDreamer> __FIRST__
18:57 < kimd> Ah, cool!
18:57 <+perlDreamer> perldoc HTML::Template will tell all
18:57 <+perlDreamer> __FIRST__, __LAST__, __EVEN__, __ODD__
18:57 <+perlDreamer> that's all of them, I think
18:57 <@tavisto> yikes. a friend just sent me a link to the story about the bombing in Moscow.. The general news pictures are GRAPHIC
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19:32 <+bartjol> ow, perlDreamer, more pictures: http://www.bartjol.nl/home/fotoalbums/fortos/data/klus2010-02-28
19:32 <+perlDreamer> I'm such a slacker, I still owe you pictures
19:33 <+perlDreamer> dude!  You have hair!
19:33 <+bartjol> yeah, I only make those pictures to  make you feel guilty
19:33 <+bartjol> yeah, it grows on me
19:34 <+perlDreamer> electrical work this weekend?
19:34 <+perlDreamer> I see lots of wire nuts
19:34 <+bartjol> well, that should be coming soon
19:35 <+bartjol> and after that, a floor for my storage space
19:36 <+bartjol> (the place where you se me in the pictures)
19:36 <+perlDreamer> the new microwave made it past the 4 day mark, so we're quite happy with it
19:37 <+bartjol> most critical phase for microwaves :)
19:38 <+perlDreamer> at my house it is ;)
19:39 <+bartjol> you have an energy sink in your house, a black hole for microwaves, you might say
19:42 <+bartjol> feeding time
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20:08 < CIA-104> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rdab004c / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Form/RadioList.pm): Let RadioLists take array refs for default values. Fixes bug #11497. - http://bit.ly/dxTPvg
20:09 < CIA-104> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * raf71b50 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Form/RadioList.pm): Let RadioLists take array refs for default values. Fixes bug #11497. - http://bit.ly/cQ1Zt0
20:14 < CIA-104> webgui: Graham Knop improved-asset-state * r6cfa7c3 / (5 files in 3 dirs): working on improving asset creation - http://bit.ly/bwM9BI
20:23 <@preaction> kimd: it made it into 7.9.2, and i adjusted everything accordingly
20:23 < kimd> Cool! Thank you very much.
20:35 < kimd> preaction, still interested in the Schriesheim quarry climbing photos?
20:35 < kimd> Ah no, I meant perlDreamer.
20:36 < kimd> Check http://www.klettern-md.de/home/geschichten/bunte-bilder/schriesheimer-steinbruch
20:36 <+perlDreamer> thanks!
20:36 < kimd> Try the slideshow feature ("Diashow"). It's very nice.
20:44 <+perlDreamer> I didn't see the festung in the pictures from the floor of the quarry, is it on the other side of the ridge?
20:47 < kimd> No. But it is much lower and more to the right.
20:47 < kimd> It's a 20 minutes walk to the quarry.
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21:58  * perlDreamer goes running, and ponders that woeful status of international banking and monetary transfers
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--- Day changed Tue Mar 30 2010
00:07 < kimd> perlDreamer, still fixing the gallery?
00:07 <+perlDreamer> no, off on some customer support issues
00:07 <+perlDreamer> it may have to wait until later tonight,  perhaps tomorrow
00:07 < kimd> I think I have another bug.
00:07 < kimd> When adding zip archives, the owner is always Admin.
00:08 < kimd> Has that one been reported before?
00:08 <+perlDreamer> I don't believe so
00:08 <+perlDreamer> Please file it
00:08 < kimd> Ok, I am going to create a ticket. Thanks.
00:08 <+perlDreamer> or, better yet, fix it :)
00:12 < kimd> One thing after the other.
00:13 < kimd> I can put it on my list. But I need to create the ticket anyhow.
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05:51 < CIA-104> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r4ee08b1 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix bad template, macro code in Gallery File view template. Fixes bug #11492. - http://bit.ly/dfKOyC
05:54 < CIA-104> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb538884 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix bad template, macro code in Gallery File view template. Fixes bug #11492. - http://bit.ly/9q7bkR
05:54 < CIA-104> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5b35b8f / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix package imported from 7.8 for GalleryFile view template. Fixes bug #11492 - http://bit.ly/9dG63d
06:44 < CIA-104> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r713baf0 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix owner privileges on photos created via uploading an archive. Fixes bug #11503 - http://bit.ly/aPoK2I
06:44 < CIA-104> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r03eeefe / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix owner privileges on photos created via uploading an archive. Fixes bug #11503 - http://bit.ly/aSMaw9
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13:58 < carogray> good morning
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15:50 < kimd> Hey bartjol, late afternoon start?
15:50 <+bartjol> ow, just forgot to join the channel
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17:32 < doc777> Hello friends. Is there a way to set the default template using the wre when a new site is created?
17:35 <+bartjol> I suppose if you use the site setup tool, that might be doen automatically
17:37 < doc777> Aye, but if you click don't then it sets it to webgui 7?  That is what I would like to set.
17:39 <+bartjol> mmm, not sure what template is used 
17:41 < doc777> If you choose to not use the site builder a complete webgui site is put into place, with ads, flash images... the works  ;o)    It is pretty but all this has to be removed each time a site is created.  Was just looking for a way to swap that out with a minimal customized template.
17:43 <+bartjol> aah
17:44 < doc777> Thinking in terms of a school with student sites. Repeating it 100 times. :o)
17:44 <+bartjol> I believe this in the default db
17:45 < doc777> hrm... sounds obscure
17:45 <+bartjol> yeah
17:47 < doc777> But, nevertheless, If I can find the location I can import a minimal template and wala :o)
17:48 <+bartjol> yeah, that safes a lot of work
17:48 <+bartjol> I believe that db file is create.sql
17:48 < doc777> Is the default template pulled from WebGui or in the wre?
17:48 <+bartjol> /data/WebGUI/docs/create.sql
17:49 <+bartjol> so it is webgui
17:49 <+bartjol> just a file
17:49 < doc777> Ah, yea, that is what I was looking at.  Thank you so much for your help bartjol  :o)
17:50 <+bartjol> it's all in a days work for bicycle repair man
17:58 < doc777> Well, it did not seem to work. It still created the Red / Black webgui site though I changed out the create.sql with a custom export.
18:00 < doc777> Wonder if it is the /data/WebGui/www/uploads folder as well as the db?
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18:06 <+bartjol> doc777: I believe the uploads folder is site specific
18:08 < doc777> In theory, if I have a minimal site, and copy the DB and domain folder over the db and domain folder of the newly created site, then the new site should look like the old site. :o)
18:08 < doc777> But accomplishing this at creation time would be ideal... and even smart.
18:09 <+bartjol> yeah
18:15 <+bartjol> mare, tabee
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19:07 < clifmo> hello, just discovered webgui yesterday and am evaluating the virtual appliance
19:08 <+perlDreamer> don't judge us too harshly by that, it hasn't been updated with a recent version of WebGUI for a while
19:08 <+perlDreamer> the demo sites (demo.webgui.org, and beta.webgui.org) are also good, even though they're limited to 24 hours
19:09 < clifmo> I noticed it was a bit outdated, still intriguing though and a good way to get my feet wet before sitting in your webinar
19:13 < clifmo> I represent a municipal govt currently using a proprietary CMS thats looking for open source alternatives
19:14 <+perlDreamer> lots of people in government use WebGUI
19:14 <+perlDreamer> it scales well
19:16  * perlDreamer heads off to the gym
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20:22 <+perlDreamer> hey, preaction.  How are you doing?
20:22 <@preaction> still down
20:24 <+perlDreamer> I got you covered today, so take it easy
20:24 <+perlDreamer> do something light and relaxing, like rewriting the cache plugin or something
20:24 <@preaction> riiiiiight
20:25 <+perlDreamer> :D
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22:03 < doc777> Question: When using the wre console to add a new site, skip the site builder, and you have a default red, black and white webgui site.  Can this "default" template be changed to something else? I cannot find where it is being pulled from.
22:04 <+perlDreamer> doc777, that's the style template
22:04 <+perlDreamer> you can add others, and change them as you wish
22:04 <+perlDreamer> use the Edit Branch feature to change all the assets at once
22:05 <@preaction> it's set in the create.sql, you can substitute your own create.sql, but you'd have to update it for each upgrade
22:05 < doc777> Think of a school with 100 student sites. Each site has to be changed and all the flash pictures and such removed each time.
22:06 < doc777> I changed the /data/WebGui/docs/create.sql and it still gave me the red and black site. unless it was cached somehow....
22:06 <@preaction> the flash pictures and stuff are part of the www/uploads folder (the default uploads that get copied)
22:07 < doc777> Well I guess what I would like to accomplish is this: We set up a bare minimalistic template. And would like that to be the default when a new site is created.
22:08 < doc777> So if I replace the /data/Webgui/www/uploads and the default create.sql this should do it?
22:09 <@preaction> try it and see
22:09 < doc777> Will do :o)
22:10 < doc777> I saw the posts on adding templates into the site builder. That looks great!
22:28 < doc777> Replacing create.sql and the uploads folder did the trick. Thanks for all the help :o)
22:43 < doc777> I have noticed that when I add a site the DB user is created with % hosts. I just need local hosts. Can this be changed?
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23:05 <+perlDreamer> Haarg: have you seen this before -> [Tue Mar 30 12:59:12 2010] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] Label not found for "last WEBGUI_FATAL" at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Session/ErrorHandler.pm line 252.\n
23:08 <@Haarg> not in a web request
23:09 <+perlDreamer> you can get it by turning off mysql and making a request
23:09 <+perlDreamer> it interferes with the normal reporting for a bad mysql connection
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--- Day changed Wed Mar 31 2010
00:00 <+perlDreamer> Haarg: http://gist.github.com/349588
00:00 <+perlDreamer> It seems as though you can't last LABEL backwards through an eval
00:00 <+perlDreamer> and since all handlers are wrapped with evals, it doesn't work
00:00 <+perlDreamer> Haven't thought about how to test this in the normal dying case yet
00:01  * perlDreamer cowardly runs off to pick up kids from school
00:01 <@Haarg> is this for webgui 8
00:01 <@Haarg> ?
00:02 <+perlDreamer> nope, it's for a webgui 7 bugfix
00:07 <@Haarg> i don't think we can change that
00:07 <@Haarg> the last WEBGUI_FATAL thing is horrible but there is no way to do it well
00:40 <+perlDreamer> if fatal dies, and it's caught by any of the evals in either URL/Content, or WebGUI.pm, I don't see the difference
00:41 <+perlDreamer> and the last isn't working in all cases
00:43 < CIA-104> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r52162f6 / lib/WebGUI/Form/Slider.pm : fix typos in error message - http://bit.ly/c2VyG4
00:47 <@Haarg> because it gets caught elsewhere before it gets to the content handlers
00:47 <@Haarg> what is a case where the last isn't working?
00:48 <+perlDreamer> startup apache, but turn off mysql
00:48 <+perlDreamer> make a page request
00:49 <+perlDreamer> the error I posted earlier about no label named WEBGUI_FATAL will be in the apache error log
00:50 <+perlDreamer> and you'll get a standard 500 error page
00:50 <+perlDreamer> instead of our customized error page for no database connection, from ErrorHandler->fatal
00:50 <@Haarg> seems like the session open needs to be inside the WEBGUI_FATAL block
00:52 <+perlDreamer> that's the funny thing
00:53 <+perlDreamer> it's not session open that seems to be causing the problem
00:53 <+perlDreamer> because it will iterate through the URL handlers
00:53 <+perlDreamer> even though the stack trace says otherwise
00:56 <@Haarg> how are you seeing it iterate through the url handlers?
00:57 <+perlDreamer> I put a warn statement inside the URL handler loop that prints out each handler's name as it tries to run
00:57 <@Haarg> content is the last handler though
00:57 <@Haarg> so it would go through the others first before getting the fatal error
00:58 <+perlDreamer> so you think it would be better to put a dummy block around session->open and the foreach?
00:58 <@Haarg> yes
01:05 <+perlDreamer> like this: http://gist.github.com/349650
01:06 <@Haarg> yeah
01:06 <@Haarg> what does that eval around the db connect do?
01:07 <+perlDreamer> I suspected that it was die'ing
01:08 <@Haarg> fatal really is broken by design, but what are you going to do
01:09 <+perlDreamer> it would be nice if it threw a particular kind of exception, which would only be handled up at the top
01:10 <+perlDreamer> anyone that catches that exception should rethrow it
01:11 <@Haarg> that's how all exceptions should be handled
01:12 < CIA-104> webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r3b3347c / (3 files in 3 dirs): Restore ErrorHandler->fatal handling of no DB connection. Fixes bug #11494. - http://bit.ly/aMQ6fr
01:12 < CIA-104> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * ra3e1176 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Restore ErrorHandler->fatal handling of no DB connection. Fixes bug #11494. - http://bit.ly/c3RGjJ
01:13 < CIA-104> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r116f159 / lib/WebGUI/Form/Slider.pm : fix typos in error message - http://bit.ly/c0UynU
01:15 <+perlDreamer> thanks for your help, Haarg
01:15 <+perlDreamer> where help == doing almost all the work except for writing the code
01:21 <@Haarg> well, what you wanted to do would have made more sense, if it was possible for fatal to make sense
01:27 <+perlDreamer> now, let's see if I can take elnino's latest bug and nuke demo.webgui.org with it
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05:16 <+perlDreamer> patspam: does the Survey leak?
05:16 <+patspam> leak what?
05:16 <+perlDreamer> I added a question
05:16 <+perlDreamer> then deleted it
05:16 <+perlDreamer> cleared server side and client side caches
05:16 <+perlDreamer> and when I take the survey, it still shows that question
05:17 <+patspam> it's revision controlled
05:17 <+patspam> so if you started a response
05:17 <+patspam> you'll still see the question
05:17 <+patspam> same goes for structure changes
05:17 <+patspam> you won't see them until the next fresh response
05:18 <+perlDreamer> that makes tons of sense
05:18 <+patspam> with the way it's currently written, things would go very bad (tm) if the structure changed during a response
05:18 <+patspam> because sections/questions/answers do not have guids
05:19 <+patspam> their Id is their order in the strucutre
05:19 <+patspam> which really sucks
05:19 <+perlDreamer> it's cheap and easy
05:19 <+patspam> the revisioning thing catches people out all the time, because sometimes you don't even realise you've started a response
05:19 <+perlDreamer> but fragile
05:20 <+perlDreamer> yeah, I was just displaying the first question
05:20 <+perlDreamer> I'm learning more about the multi-slider allocate guy, and i think it can be saved
05:20 <+patspam> it makes changing the structure of a big complex questionnaire rather painful
05:20 <+patspam> well, actually it doesn't because it revisions everything
05:20 <+patspam> but I don't like it
05:21 <+patspam> I have a love-hate relationship with survey
05:21 <+patspam> and would really love to throw away every line of existing code and rewrite it "properly"
05:22 <+perlDreamer> WG8 FTW!
05:22 <+patspam> exactly!
05:22 <+perlDreamer> speaking of FTW, any news on the OSCON front?
05:23 <+patspam> I was thinking if I can put aside a week or two, I might try to at least design Survey3, and discuss it with people at the WUC
05:23 <+patspam> it would make for a rather bizarre talk
05:24 <+patspam> my OSCON talks didn't get up
05:24 <+patspam> no real surprise
05:24 <+patspam> but that new Health track looks promising, I'm tempted to submit a talk for that
05:24 <+perlDreamer> You should.  Moodswings is a great example of leveraging OS
05:24 <+patspam> yeah I probably have a better chance talking about health than I do talking about per
05:24 <+patspam> l
05:25 <+perlDreamer> piano lessons are ending, time to trek home
05:25 <+perlDreamer> bbl8r
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06:54 < CIA-104> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rb7ddc03 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/MatrixListing.pm : Don't build i18n object since it isn't needed. - http://bit.ly/aEwfmE
07:10 < CIA-104> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r765cfc0 / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.8.16 release - http://bit.ly/btDVk3
08:11 <+perlDreamer> yay, new release is out
08:11 < CIA-104> webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r50b8a0e / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.8.17 development cycle. - http://bit.ly/97svBp
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14:27 < kimd> Morning bartjol!
14:27 < kimd> And everyone else as well, of course.
14:28 <+bartjol> morning kimd
14:28 <+bartjol> I really have the tendency to call you bernd
14:29 < kimd> That's ok. But I won't get an alert.
14:29 < kimd> Maybe, I should reconfigure my client?
14:29 < kimd> It must have an option for keyword highlighting.
14:30  * bartjol is having an awstats day
14:30 < kimd> Ok, done. Bartjol, can you try writing to bernd?
14:30 <+bartjol> bernd
14:30 < kimd> Cool! It works.
14:30 <+bartjol> tabbing doesn't work
14:30 < kimd> Call me bernd then.
14:30 < kimd> Or Bernd, to be precise.
14:30 <+bartjol> I'm very much obliged
14:31 <+bartjol> ah capital crazy Germans :P
14:33 < kimd> Something else: Is the YUI code editor also slow in your browser?
14:34 < kimd> I am trying to write some JS code and it's a pain.
14:34 <+bartjol> the normal code editor? Let me have a look
14:35 < kimd> Open a larger template or snippet and try to modify something.
14:35 <+bartjol> oh, yeah I've encountered some slugginess in that
14:36 <+bartjol> the idea is nice, but it doesn't work ideally
14:36 < kimd> Ok. So it's not my browse