--- Log opened Sun Mar 01 00:00:01 2009
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00:26 <+perlDreamer> preaction: format: query, nature: codeReview: response: availability
00:26 <@preaction> format: response; re: codeReview; content: I am currently available, ask forth your question
00:28 <+perlDreamer> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m64f95d46
00:29 <+perlDreamer> It's just the first pass, but all feedback is appreciated.
00:29 <@preaction> i would try to break out as much JS as possible into a seperate .js file (preferably under yui-webgui)
00:30 <+perlDreamer> with AJAXI18n, there's no reason the whole thing can't be a separate JS file
00:30 <@preaction> so then you just call something like "var ah = new WebGUI.AssetHistory();"
00:30 <@preaction> yeah, that too
00:30 <@preaction> it makes it more of an application, and far more useful
00:31 <@preaction> so even if the Perl code changes completely, the JS can be used later (in the new admin console)
00:31 <+perlDreamer> "new" admin console?
00:31 <@preaction> we've been talking about it at the WUC since 7.5
00:31 <@preaction> even showed screenshots
00:33 * perlDreamer is drawing a blank. Do you have a URL for video/presentation?
00:34 <@preaction> it was one of JT's keynotes
00:34 <@preaction> last year's keynote, i believe
00:34 <@preaction> otherwise, if i'm mistaken, then there will eventually be a new admin interface
00:36 <+perlDreamer> aside from getting chocolate in the peanut butter, any other suggestions?
00:37 <@preaction> you might want to change www_manage to www_view instead, just for consistency's sake
00:37 <@preaction> and run it through perltidy
00:38 <@preaction> otherwise, looks great
00:38 <+perlDreamer> I was thinking it returned too much data, from the getHistoryAsJson
00:39 <+perlDreamer> and some date formatting
00:39 <@preaction> not really. i would want more data personally, like exactly what changed (we don't really keep records of that though)
00:39 <+perlDreamer> no, just the actionTaken set of options
00:40 <@preaction> though it would be possible to do a compare of the available revisions in the future if someone wants that feature
00:40 <@preaction> i like that it exposes this feature we've always had and nobody knew about
00:40 <@preaction> it might stir some good ideas in the community
00:40 <+perlDreamer> yeah, I've been telling people about it for a while, but it's hard for the average admin to use.
00:41 <@preaction> oh. you should add a tab to the admin console about this. you should also add a different privilege group to the Settings page
00:41 <@preaction> the "12" magic number shouldn't be used
00:42 <@preaction> though that's only my opinion, which is subject to overrule
00:42 <+perlDreamer> I think you're right. I used 12 as a placeholder for lack of anything better.
00:42 <+perlDreamer> What do you think about a date range search option?
00:43 <@preaction> how much data really gets returned? if it's more than 50 rows, then probably yes
00:43 <@preaction> i hate date range searches though, maybe let the user input a date and search +/- 5 days? or 7 days? or something like that
00:44 <@preaction> well, that's just an idea. not sure i like that idea either
00:44 <+perlDreamer> it only returns 50 rows, but it seems wasteful to send the whole user table when only the username is used
00:45 <@preaction> then get: assetHistory.*,users.username <-
00:45 <@preaction> instead of *
00:45 <+perlDreamer> that's easier than typing all the columns by hand :)
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00:55 < perlDreamer1> one last question, preaction. Do you think it's RFE-able for 7.7, or should I just put it into the Bazaar?
00:55 <@preaction> i think it's RFE-able for 7.7 myself
00:56 < perlDreamer1> I'll submit an RFE w/patch after I get all the tidying up done on it.
00:57 < perlDreamer1> thanks, preaction!
00:57 < perlDreamer1> time for me to crawl up into the attic :/
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20:30 < CIA-46> WebGUI: translation * r9688 /translations/Russian/ (78 files in 2 dirs): Update from translation server
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01:41 < xdanger> can the commit approval workflow be changed per group or per user somehow?
01:57 < CIA-46> WebGUI: translation * r9689 /translations/Russian/ (37 files in 2 dirs): Update from translation server
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02:16 < elnino> hi! I think somewhere along the lines, the paypal payment module is scheduled for some release, anyone privy to when that may be?
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05:19 < elnino> hi. wondering if there is any word on the paypal module, I thought it was scheduled for 7.7, is that still correct?
06:37 <@preaction> elnino: as far as i know, yes
06:38 < elnino> HI!
06:38 < elnino> And that is June or something right?
06:39 < elnino> preaction, if I start writing one, is there anyone that would be willing to review my work?
06:40 < elnino> maybe we can get it in sooner?
06:40 <@preaction> i believe martin kamerbeek is writing one right now, you might want to coordinate with him using the dev mailing list
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06:51 < elnino> ok. Thanks preaction. what is his name here?
06:52 <@preaction> MrHairgrease
06:53 < elnino> oh that's right.
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12:25 < CIA-46> WebGUI: yung * r9690 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): added edit link to matrix listing view
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14:42 < ryuu_ro> Hi all
14:42 <+BartJol> not him
14:42 <+BartJol> :)
14:42 < ryuu_ro> i have this form which executes a query on some tables
14:43 < ryuu_ro> I process the form with $sessin->form->process
14:43 < ryuu_ro> but when I enter 0 in my form field the form var doesn't get processed
14:44 < ryuu_ro> also form->param doesn't do the trick
14:44 < ryuu_ro> is this a bug?
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15:52 <+BartJol> ryuu_ro: if you copied it, $sessin->form->process doesn't seem spelled right
15:53 < ryuu_ro> yeah that's just a typo
15:53 <+BartJol> just making sure
15:53 < ryuu_ro> I understand why it isn't being processed but I don't think that it shouldn't
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17:11 < SDuensin> Greetings.
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17:29 < BartJo1> morning scott
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17:35 < xdanger> can the commit approval workflow be changed per group or per user somehow?
17:38 < BartJo1> it should be possible in 7.6
17:39 < BartJo1> evry user has a version tag workflow in the profile
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18:14 <+perlmonkey2> I want to add the ability to do site wide default question group definition editing. This would not be Survey specific, but system wide. So that editing the question groups would change them for the site. This is just for the pre-defined multiple choice question groups. Anyone have an idea how to go about this? Should it be an editor in the Admin Console? An editor on each survey instance?
18:20 <+perlDreamer> If it's Survey specific, I'd say a link on each Survey.
18:20 <+perlDreamer> that way, anyone who can edit a survey can get to it
18:20 <+perlDreamer> kind of like the Style Wizard for templates.
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18:41 <+perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: well it is more to be site wide. To give CM's a place to alter the default question types.
18:42 <+perlmonkey2> The ones I put in there were pretty specific to the US and to Sociology.
18:42 <+perlDreamer> the Admin Console keeps growing, so if it's something just to tweak 1 asset, I still think it belongs in the Asset.
18:46 <+perlDreamer> of course, /me is a strongly opinionated IRC squatter, so what does he know?
18:50 < BartJo1> perlDreamer: you have a bed in the IRC channel?
18:51 <+perlDreamer> I sleep on that bench over there
18:51 < BartJo1> ah
18:51 < rizen_> put it into the survey
18:52 < BartJo1> didn't loom that way yet
18:52 < rizen_> make it a menu option
18:52 < rizen_> and just don't link it to a specific asset id
18:52 < rizen_> and on the page, state that these are global question group types
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18:56 <+perlmonkey2> rizen: sounds groovy.
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18:59 <+perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: drove through West Oklahoma, the Panhandle of Texas, and East New Mexico last week. Gigawatts of wind farms through that way. Just whole horizons full of the things, absolutely beautiful. And now I've got the wind turbine bug again in a bad way. Thinking of going against personal policy and just buying a welder brand new.
18:59 <+perlDreamer> sometimes, sacrifices must be made in the name of progress.
19:00 <+perlDreamer> maybe welders hold their value so well that they don't drop in price quickly over time
19:00 <+perlDreamer> I wish the Stock Market was that way...
19:00 <+perlmonkey2> Yeah, 13 year lows and dropping.
19:01 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9691 /branch/WebGUI_Story/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.6.14-7.7.0.pl: Add column for approval workflow.
19:01 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9692 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (3 files in 3 dirs):
19:01 < CIA-46> WebGUI: Add methods for creating and getting date specific folders below the Archive for
19:01 < CIA-46> WebGUI: holding stories. With tests.
19:01 < CIA-46> WebGUI: Code for the approval workflow for stories.
19:01 <+perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: heh, maybe instead of holding gold, people should hold welders. As the good ones really don't seem to lose much value.
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19:26 <+perlDreamer> rizen: Kathy got a letter from OHSU.
19:26 <+perlDreamer> She's on the alternates list this year
19:26 <+perlDreamer> so there's a chance she may get in
19:28 <@rizen> seet
19:28 <@rizen> sweet
19:28 <@rizen> tell her congrats for me
19:28 <+perlDreamer> I will
19:29 < deafferret> PhD in Perl?
19:29 <+perlDreamer> certified nurse/midwife
19:29 < deafferret> w/ a Perl specialty?
19:30 <+perlDreamer> no, the program is deficient that way.
19:30 <+perlDreamer> I have her signed up for special tutoring
19:31 < deafferret> nurse! zero-width negative look-behind assertion! stat!
20:03 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9693 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/_NewAsset.skeleton: Fix POD/whitespace issues.
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21:31 <+perlDreamer> it's scary when you can start writing phrases with 22 characters in them, give or take a character
21:37 <+perlDreamer> deafferret, I'm thinking of going for a run. What are you eating today?
21:40 <@preaction> i'll eat chicken parmesan for him
21:40 <@preaction> heavy on the parmesan
21:43 <+perlDreamer> that sounds like at least a medium run
21:57 * perlmonkey2 thanks WebGUI for tabforms.
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22:17 <+perlDreamer> Mech422Home: howdy :)
22:17 < Mech422Home> hi :-)
22:18 < Mech422Home> Uggh - I hate apache
22:20 <+perlDreamer> do you like some other server better?
22:22 < Mech422Home> nginx looks promising
22:22 < Mech422Home> apache is just too 'kitchen sink' - too many knobs, too much to go wrong
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22:27 < SynQ> hi there
22:29 < SynQ> is github broken?
22:29 <+perlDreamer> it would appear so.
22:30 <+perlDreamer> that's what they get for writing it in ruby
22:32 < SynQ> hmm
22:32 < SynQ> that is what I dreaded by putting the WebGUI repository in a 3th party's hands
22:32 < SynQ> we had that with sf.net
22:33 < SynQ> now we are going to get it with github.com
22:33 <+perlDreamer> since it's git, it's only really a problem when you want to do a pull from github.com
22:33 <+perlDreamer> commits are fine
22:34 < SynQ> I am not sure I think that makes it more workable
22:34 < SynQ> it's always a problem when you want to collaborate
22:34 < SynQ> for instance
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22:34 < SynQ> I want to see if JT has done any work on wre in the git repo
22:34 < SynQ> but I cant
22:34 < SynQ> since github.com is offline
22:35 < SynQ> git.webgui.org would be a far better place
22:35 < SynQ> since that would be under direct control of plainblack
22:35 <@rizen> i haven't yet
22:35 < SynQ> ah
22:35 < SynQ> :)
22:35 < SynQ> hi
22:35 <@rizen> we're sticking with svn for wre until 1.0 comes out
22:35 <@rizen> which should be this week
22:35 <@rizen> or next
22:35 < SynQ> ok nice
22:36 <@rizen> if all goes according to plan
22:36 < SynQ> I wanted to verify if I indeed created a github account
22:36 < SynQ> graham allready asked me
22:36 < SynQ> rizen: do you develop the WRE on your personal mac or on a linux box?
22:37 < SynQ> and: do you know if the wre HEAD still compiles on your systems after the changes I did?
22:38 <@rizen> i do it on my mac
22:38 <@rizen> and i'll be finding out shortly whether it does or not
22:38 < SynQ> :)
22:38 <@rizen> still trying to work through some bugs in your sources .sh files
22:38 < SynQ> I have it up and running now at host003.procolix.com
22:38 < SynQ> what kind of bugs?
22:38 <@rizen> http://archive.cs.uu.nl/mirror/CPAN/authors/id/R/RC/RCAPUTO/POE-Component-Client-DNS-1.02.tar.gz:
22:38 <@rizen> 2009-03-02 11:15:36 ERROR 404: Not Found.
22:38 <@rizen> tar (child): POE-Component-Client-DNS-1.02.tar.gz: Cannot open: No such file or directory
22:38 <@rizen> tar (child): Error is not recoverable: exiting now
22:38 <@rizen> tar: Child returned status 2
22:38 <@rizen> tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors
22:39 <@rizen> mirror might be down or something
22:39 < SynQ> ah
22:39 < SynQ> change the MIRROR variable on top of that file
22:39 < SynQ> to the cpan.org line
22:39 <@rizen> well it's not the mirror itself
22:39 < SynQ> that is commented in top of it
22:39 <@rizen> cuz other files come down fine
22:39 < SynQ> ah ok
22:39 < SynQ> I had that too
22:39 <@rizen> i'm just wondering if that mirror is missing some files
22:39 <@rizen> or whatever
22:39 <@rizen> i'm lookinginto it
22:39 < SynQ> it's one of the mirrors that is not completely up to date
22:40 < SynQ> the best thing would be to let CPAN do the downloading of that particular file
22:40 < SynQ> I wanted to ask you if you agree on this:....
22:40 < SynQ> we want to release a WRE that has exactly that set of modules that we tested and approved not newer or older ones, right?
22:41 <@rizen> right
22:41 < SynQ> ok
22:41 <@rizen> which is why cpan can't be allowed to download anything
22:41 < SynQ> that is why I created that downloadscript
22:41 <@rizen> we must do it
22:41 < SynQ> indeed
22:41 < SynQ> but we might be able to use the CPAN module to download particular versions of perl modules from the perl mirrors
22:42 < SynQ> that might solve the error-checking right away
22:43 < SynQ> btw: http://host003.procolix.com
22:43 < SynQ> WebGUI 7.6.13 running on WRE HEAD :)
22:43 <@rizen> cool
22:44 < SynQ> what I could do is tar my entire sources tree and put them in http://host003.procolix.com/uploads/somewhere.tar
22:44 < SynQ> admin 123qwe
22:44 < SynQ> go ahead :)
22:45 < SynQ> that is not cool. This is: http://dev.anxietyonline.org.au/
22:45 < SynQ> that is served by a cluster of 6 virtual machines
22:45 < SynQ> 2 loadbalancers LVS, 2 apache servers (modperl, modproxy) and 2 mysql servers (one in slave mode)
22:46 <+perlDreamer> are you hosting that, SynQ?
22:46 < SynQ> perlDreamer: no I built it
22:47 < SynQ> it is running on vm's in australia
22:47 <+perlDreamer> I see
22:47 < SynQ> or at least by an australian based company
22:47 < SynQ> I am hosting this: http://www.loopsetshop.com
22:47 < Mech422Home> SynQ: Hmm - lvs is still the load balancer of choice ?
22:48 < Mech422Home> I'm assuming thats to avoid s.p.o.f. and not for load balancing reasons ?
22:48 < SynQ> Mech422Home: actually I'd prefer a netscaler
22:49 < SynQ> assumption is the mother of all error
22:49 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9694 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Story code. Added validParent, storage location code.
22:49 < SynQ> Mech422Home: what alternative would you use then?
22:50 < Mech422Home> I don't have s.p.o.f. worries - we usually just use pound
22:50 < Mech422Home> I use varnish for caching - that can load balance if you don't need fancy sessioning
22:50 < Mech422Home> perlbal is supposed ot be good too, right ?
22:51 < SynQ> hold on a moment
22:51 < SynQ> pound is not really a load balancer
22:51 <+perlDreamer> what is SPOF?
22:52 < Mech422Home> its a proxy load balancer - but how is that not a 'real' load balancer?
22:52 < SynQ> it's more of spraying reverse proxy
22:52 < Mech422Home> single point of failure
22:52 < SynQ> a 'real' loadbalancer does nothing with the content
22:52 < SynQ> have you read the LVS manual?
22:52 < Mech422Home> synq: pound doesn't do anything with it unless you ask (sticky sessions)
22:53 < Mech422Home> not in about 5 years
22:53 < Mech422Home> which is why I asked
22:53 < Mech422Home> pound is the 'de facto' standard for zope/plone - so I've used that for close to 10 years now..
22:53 < SynQ> ah
22:53 < Mech422Home> I haven't looked at lvs or ultramonkey or any of that in ages
22:54 < SynQ> I would use LVS for any
22:54 < SynQ> ultramonkey again is something completely different
22:54 < SynQ> varnish I don't know about and perlbal is also a proxy
22:55 < SynQ> let me put it this way...
22:55 <+MrHairgrease> anbody had trouble using yui's datatable
22:55 <+MrHairgrease> and get this error?
22:55 <+perlDreamer> MrHairgrease: every day :(
22:55 < Mech422Home> yes, proxy and load balancer are not mutually exclusive
22:55 <+MrHairgrease> invalid 'instanceof' operand DS if(oDataSource && (oDataSource instanceof DS)) {
22:56 < SynQ> if you really want to build a load balanced cluster you want a combination of LVS, Heartbeat, MySQL with replication, a reverse proxy, multiple modperl hosts, a dedicated spectre server and perhaps some more caching layers
22:56 < Mech422Home> I tend to think of lvs when you need stuff like open connection support - forwarding tcp/ip connections, etc.
22:56 < SynQ> indeed
22:56 < Mech422Home> umm - yeah, assuming you use all that :-)
22:56 < SynQ> and you want to have that too
22:56 < SynQ> so your question is a bit strange
22:57 < Mech422Home> I generally don't run mysql or perl - webgui is new to me - my main biz. is plone
22:57 < SynQ> if you really want a loadbalancer
22:57 < SynQ> you use a loadbalancer
22:57 <+perlDreamer> MrHairgrease, can you paste some code?
22:57 < SynQ> and not a proxy
22:57 < Mech422Home> umm - whatever - yer getting pendantic :-P
22:57 < SynQ> and if you want I loadbalancer I would recommend LVS
22:57 < SynQ> it is really the best
22:57 < SynQ> now let's discuss proxies :)
22:58 <+MrHairgrease> yeah, I was doing that: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m42f9594f
22:58 < Mech422Home> yes, a $20K hardware load balancer would be nice, but if I don't need spof support, the proxy based solutions work fine :-)
22:58 < SynQ> I woul like to use nginx
22:58 <+MrHairgrease> line 7 triggers the error
22:58 < SynQ> LVS does not cost $20K
22:58 < Mech422Home> I realize that...
22:59 < SynQ> and if you don't need spof support a proxy still is not the same as a loadbalancer
22:59 < Mech422Home> please don't lecture - I know my biz - your needs seem to be different, thats all
22:59 < SynQ> :)
22:59 < SynQ> It's not about your bizz
22:59 < Mech422Home> whatever
22:59 < SynQ> I kiss you :)
23:00 < SynQ> a loadbalancer cannot be 'proxy based'
23:00 < SynQ> a proxy is something else
23:00 <@rizen> Mech422: don't take it personally. SynQ is just annoying by nature
23:00 < Mech422Home> rizen: so I see
23:00 < SynQ> indeed so
23:00 < SynQ> martin can vouch for that too :P
23:00 <+MrHairgrease> perldreamer: forgot to include a line, this one's right: http://webgui.pastebin.com/ma540a0d
23:01 <@rizen> at last year's wuc he got under my skin so bad that i ended up shouting at him in front of a dozen people in one of the sessions i was leading at the wuc
23:01 < SynQ> rizen: how is your opinion on experimenting with nginx instead of apache for modproxy
23:01 < SynQ> that was adorable JT :)
23:01 <+MrHairgrease> rizen: next time shout with your fist =)
23:02 <+MrHairgrease> something else won't make him stop =)
23:02 <@rizen> i have no idea what nginx is, but in general there would have to be some absolutely amazing advantages to make me consider switching away from modproxy
23:02 < SynQ> that is not true martin and you know it :P
23:02 <+perlDreamer> MrHairgrease: is it still line 7 that is the problem?, or now 15?
23:02 < Mech422Home> rizen: nginx servers about 25% of v hosts on the net now..according to their site
23:03 <+MrHairgrease> 15
23:03 < SynQ> rizen: one absolutely amazing advantage is that with nginx you can tell the proxy to give only so much bandwith per client
23:03 <+MrHairgrease> teh error comes from deep in the DataTable source
23:03 <@rizen> just because most of the world uses it, doesn't make it great though. look at IE for example.
23:03 < Mech422Home> rizen: touche :-)
23:03 < Mech422Home> rizen: so is varnish cache out of the question too ?
23:03 < SynQ> making it a lot more difficult for one user to saturate the entire webserver
23:04 <@rizen> that's a pretty cool feature
23:04 < Mech422Home> rizen: its a lot faster then squid for man cases
23:04 < SynQ> Mech422: what is the url for that varnish stuff?
23:04 <+perlDreamer> Mech422Home, that's 25% of the vservers in Russia, unless I misread that
23:05 < SynQ> rizen: nginx has a smaller memory footprint than apache (much) since it has a different threading model
23:05 < SynQ> I don't care how much servers it runs on
23:05 <+perlDreamer> MrHairgrease: do you have connection-min loaded?
23:05 < SynQ> actually
23:05 < Mech422Home> synq: http://varnish.projects.linpro.no/
23:05 < SynQ> but it's nice that at least some sites use it :)
23:05 < SynQ> Mech422: thanks
23:05 <+MrHairgrease> perlDreamer: yup
23:06 < SynQ> varnish doesn't run on mac?
23:06 < Mech422Home> perldreamer: Hmm - could be - I seem to recall seein it was 25% total though - maybe netcraft or something
23:06 < Mech422Home> SynQ: given its 'c' - I have no clue
23:06 < Mech422Home> phk is an fbsd legend though - so it should
23:07 <+MrHairgrease> perldreamer: http://webgui.pastebin.com/d51c43536
23:07 <+MrHairgrease> the error comes from line 4416
23:07 <+MrHairgrease> so maybe I'm borking my DataSource
23:07 <+MrHairgrease> checking on that
23:08 < SynQ> jt: source of all is here: http://host003.procolix.com/uploads/source.tgz
23:08 < SynQ> it's 431M
23:08 <@rizen> synq, can it still do all the stuff modproxy can do? like url rewrites, ssl, setting cache headers, etc?
23:08 <@rizen> i have the source down, but thanks
23:08 < SynQ> yes it can
23:09 < SynQ> ok great
23:09 <@rizen> then we can talk about it for wre 1.1
23:09 < SynQ> sure thing
23:09 <@rizen> as for 1.0 i just want to get the damn thing out the door
23:09 < SynQ> indeed
23:09 < SynQ> 64 bits?
23:09 <@rizen> that's the goal
23:09 < SynQ> or is even that optional?
23:09 <@rizen> if i can't make it 64 bits by the end of the week, then i'm going to release it as 0.9
23:09 <@rizen> cuz we need a release
23:09 < SynQ> good plan
23:10 <@rizen> and i can't release it as 1.0 until it's 64 bit
23:10 < SynQ> if you do release it as 0.9
23:10 < SynQ> I'm going to update it bi-weekly with updated perl modules if available
23:10 < SynQ> as 0.9.1 and 0.9.2 etc
23:11 <+perlDreamer> MrHairgrease, http://webgui.pastebin.com/d631c5223
23:11 <@rizen> why SynQ ?
23:12 <+perlDreamer> MrHairgrease: maybe it doesn't like the XHRDataSource?
23:12 < SynQ> to keep up with security releases
23:12 < SynQ> a security hole in one of the things that webgui runs on is a bad thing
23:13 < SynQ> that problem should be attended to
23:13 < SynQ> and I'm willing to do that
23:13 <@rizen> ok, but the problem is that you're likely introducing more bugs than you're fixing
23:13 < SynQ> well
23:13 <@rizen> if you're updating all the modules
23:13 <@rizen> updating just the ones that have security problems is one thing
23:13 <@rizen> but updating all of them is something else
23:13 < SynQ> I will run the complete test-bed after each update and before committing
23:14 <+perlDreamer> SynQ: the tests do not fully cover WebGUI
23:14 <@rizen> that's not enough
23:14 < SynQ> oh
23:14 <+perlDreamer> hand testing each type of asset is still required
23:14 < Mech422Home> ouch - that sounds like a bitch
23:14 <+perlDreamer> you need to unleash your horde of programmers on writing tests
23:14 <@rizen> that's why doing what you're talking about is not a good idea
23:14 <+MrHairgrease> perlDreamer: perhaps, but I built this according to the documentation
23:14 < SynQ> ok
23:15 < SynQ> only modules that have security problems then?
23:15 <+MrHairgrease> I'm trying to find out how to get data out of a DS
23:15 <+perlDreamer> MrHairgrease: I was just looking at this: http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/examples/datatable/dt_xhrjson.html
23:15 <+MrHairgrease> that way I can check whether I have data or not
23:17 <+perlDreamer> I've seen some kind of a callback for that
23:17 <@rizen> that would be fine SynQ
23:17 < SynQ> I'll release an 'experimental' WRE and a 'stable' one
23:17 <+perlDreamer> maybe it was in the AssetManager?
23:17 <+perlDreamer> believe it or not, if no data is sent the DataTable will do the right thing
23:18 < SynQ> learning how to write tests seems like a bit of a steep learning curve for me
23:19 < SynQ> you need the entire WebGUI api to be able to use that
23:20 <+perlDreamer> SynQ, not always. The idea is not to get overwhelmed with the whole task, but to pick one thing and test it.
23:20 <+perlDreamer> and then to test another
23:20 <+perlDreamer> and another
23:20 <+perlDreamer> lots and lots of small steps
23:20 <+perlDreamer> it's parallelizable
23:20 < SynQ> rizen: if you make sure you check in to svn regularly I can run multiple compile runs regularly
23:21 < SynQ> perlDreamer: ok
23:21 < Mech422Home> is there a buildbot type thing for perl ?
23:21 < Mech422Home> an automated builder/tester ?
23:21 <+perlDreamer> Mech422Home, _for_ perl, for perl type projects, or _in_ perl?
23:21 <+perlDreamer> I hear some people use smolder
23:22 <+perlDreamer> and tinderbox
23:22 < Mech422Home> for perl type projects
23:22 <+perlDreamer> smolder
23:22 < Mech422Home> python projects pretty much use buildbot
23:23 < Mech422Home> it's sorta the 'standard' - is there one for perl ? hmm - I'll have to look that up
23:23 < Mech422Home> would it make sense to put up 'smolder' instances for wG ?
23:23 <+perlDreamer> sure!
23:23 < Mech422Home> I can rig up a vm for it..maybe get 2 or 3 of them going at different places so we don't have a 'github' type issue ?
23:24 <+perlDreamer> with lots of them, we'd need a good aggregator. I think smolder will do that, too.
23:25 < Mech422Home> prolly don't need lots - but 2 or 3 so you can always see one...
23:25 < Mech422Home> perlDreamer: ok - smack me upside the head later if I don't give you an ip
23:25 <+perlDreamer> ip?
23:26 < Mech422Home> i.p. address
23:26 < Mech422Home> for smolder/vm
23:26 < Mech422Home> I'll have to figure out smolder first though
23:26 <+perlDreamer> you sound like you know your way around. The fun part will be getting it to play well with the WRE
23:26 <+perlDreamer> each one wants its own private set of modules
23:28 < Mech422Home> ahh - so 1 smolder can test multiple 'versions' of the wre ?
23:28 <+perlDreamer> I wouldn't think so.
23:28 < Mech422Home> oh - then whats with the 'each one' above ??
23:28 < Mech422Home> wont there just be one wre thats being tested ? (with one set of private modules?)
23:29 <+perlDreamer> smolder has a "private" cache of perl modules that it prefers to use. The WRE also has a private cache of modules.
23:29 <+perlDreamer> as long as smolder resets the paths correctly, it should not be a problem
23:30 * perlDreamer quits procrastinating, and goes running.
23:30 < Mech422Home> hmm..
23:30 <+perlDreamer> cue deafferret for counter-balancing food commentary
23:31 < Mech422Home> heh
23:38 < SynQ> ok
23:38 < SynQ> off to bed
23:38 < SynQ> later
23:38 < SynQ> ~
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00:28 <@preaction> anyone on the WRE right now can confirm that i'm not going completely nuts?
00:28 <@preaction> if your WebGUI is in /data/WebGUI, go to /data and do "wreservice.pl --restart modperl"
00:29 <@preaction> since "." is in the @INC, WebGUI tries to load: WebGUI::lib::WebGUI::Asset and WebGUI::lib::WebGUI::Pluggable and etc...
00:35 <@Haarg> interesting
00:36 <@Haarg> i would expect that to happen though, yeah
00:37 <@preaction> afaik it never caused problems before, now it refuses to start the server
00:37 <@preaction> let me find the exact error
00:37 <@preaction> and this is probably my fault
00:38 <+perlDreamer> It's March, preaction, everything is your fault
00:38 <@preaction> how it that different from February?
00:38 <+perlDreamer> February it's khenn's turn
00:38 <+perlDreamer> I have November
00:38 <@preaction> sure, give khenn the smallest month...
00:40 <@Haarg> actually, last time i saw that preaction was when there was a /WebGUI directory
00:40 <@Haarg> because apache will chdir /
00:41 < CIA-46> WebGUI: jt * r9695 /wrebuild/ (6 files in 2 dirs):
00:41 < CIA-46> WebGUI: removed subversion, swig, and neon
00:41 < CIA-46> WebGUI: added notes about libgomp for rhel5
00:41 < CIA-46> WebGUI: updated PoCo DNS and PoCo HTTP
00:41 < CIA-46> WebGUI: added rsync, ncurses, and readline
00:46 <@Haarg> i wonder if we should remove '.' from the lib path in mod_perl
00:51 <@preaction> i can't see any good reason why it should be in there
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01:01 <+perlDreamer> awesome patspam interview
01:01 <+perlDreamer> anyone who says WebGUI needs more tests is okay in my book
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01:02 < patspam> heh thanks perlDreamer
01:03 <+perlDreamer> and while we're on the subject, somebody needs to voice our new PBWG in channel
01:03 <@preaction> somebody.
01:03 <+perlDreamer> oh, you know. One of the Plain Black staff people with the leetle askerisks next to their names
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01:03 * patspam jumps for joy
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01:30 <@Haarg> perlDreamer, i'm planning on changing wgd reset so options are always set in order of usage, so that 'wgd reset --no-uploads --dev' would recreate uploads but 'wgd reset --no-uploads --dev' would.
01:30 <@Haarg> does that seem reasonable?
01:30 <+perlDreamer> it allows for overriding, so yes
01:31 <@Haarg> main reason is to allow for profiles to be overridden because currently they can't be
01:32 <+perlDreamer> that'll be nice. that way you won't have to write dozens of profiles, just one or two that can be overridden/extended with a few options
01:32 <@Haarg> yeah
01:32 <@Haarg> i really need to start working on some api docs soon. i've tried to make it simple to use, but that means many parts aren't obvious if you are just reading the code.
01:33 <+perlDreamer> over the weekend, I found myself wanting to type wgd restart http
01:33 <@Haarg> heh
01:33 <+perlDreamer> which would look in the config file for commands to restart apache
01:33 <+perlDreamer> so it would work with or without the WRE
01:33 <@Haarg> wouldn't be a bad idea
01:33 <@Haarg> i have a shell script for that
01:34 <@Haarg> since the wreservice script does extra verification that i don't want or need
01:34 <+perlDreamer> whenever I restart apache, I always wipe the webgui log
01:34 <+perlDreamer> service httpd stop; echo '' > /var/log/webgui.log; service httpd start
01:34 <+perlDreamer> typing !service works well
01:34 <+perlDreamer> until I muck with some other service
01:40 < CIA-46> wgdev: Graham Knop autotest * r966a0af / lib/WGDev/Command/Reset.pm : Set directory mode correctly for systems with a max umask of 0777 - http://bit.ly/U8MwD
01:40 < CIA-46> wgdev: Graham Knop master * r6092f7b / lib/WGDev/Command/Base.pm : more flexible command line parsing - http://bit.ly/Y04K
01:40 < CIA-46> wgdev: Graham Knop autotest * rcffc054 / lib/WGDev/Command/Reset.pm : Merge branch 'master' into autotest - http://bit.ly/sXxPC
01:40 < CIA-46> wgdev: Graham Knop master * r64e5fd0 / lib/WGDev/Command/Reset.pm :
01:40 < CIA-46> wgdev: clean up argument parsing allowed by Base.pm changes
01:40 < CIA-46> wgdev: Options are set based on their order on the command line. Later options
01:40 < CIA-46> wgdev: override earlier options, including --dev style and --profile style. - http://bit.ly/4lvZcf
01:40 < CIA-46> wgdev: Graham Knop master * rb083bba / lib/WGDev.pm : Also load libs from preload.custom - http://bit.ly/84kr3
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01:56 <@preaction> perlDreamer: do !?service httpd
01:56 <@preaction> or even just !?httpd
01:56 <+perlDreamer> !? ??
01:56 <@preaction> ? = search the entire line for this string
01:57 <+perlDreamer> oh
01:57 <+perlDreamer> nice
01:57 <@preaction> so !?httpd will look for the last line to have "httpd" in it
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02:47 <+perlDreamer> this is very cool: http://www.omnipotent.net/jquery.sparkline/
02:48 <+perlDreamer> and for me to say something like that about javascript, you know it's gotta be true
02:54 <@preaction> wow
02:55 < SDuensin> perlDreamer, you're easily amused. :-P
02:55 < SDuensin> I show you guys Cappuccino and you're like, "eh".
02:55 <+perlDreamer> did you see the little realtime javascript graph of mouse speed?
02:58 < SDuensin> perlDreamer - http://280atlas.com/
03:05 <+perlDreamer> this is a video? Did they make that with javascript.
03:05 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9696 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Test adding children, along with automatically adding folders.
03:05 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9697 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (lib/WebGUI/Asset/Story.pm t/Asset/Story.t): Add JSON handling, and move code form addRevision to update.
03:05 < SDuensin> perlDreamer - Look at what their library does. It's amazing.
03:06 <+perlDreamer> I'll watch the video later. Right now a violent, impatient 9-year old is clamoring for metro train videos
03:06 < SDuensin> Uh, ok.
03:07 * perlDreamer wears many hats
03:09 <@preaction> it's like xcode for webapps
03:09 < SDuensin> Yep.
03:10 <+perlDreamer> asking about xcode at this point would be ironic, yes?
03:10 < SDuensin> They've basically implemented Cocoa.
03:10 <@preaction> xcode is how you write OS X applications
03:10 < SDuensin> And "Objective-J".
03:10 < SDuensin> www.280slides.com was written with it.
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03:12 <@preaction> it'd be interesting to see this backed by Thingy
03:12 < SDuensin> ?
03:12 <@preaction> use this to build interfaces for Thingy data
03:12 < SDuensin> Hell yea.
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03:32 * deafferret eats many hats
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04:05 <+perlDreamer> I missed ya today, deafferret
04:05 <+perlDreamer> preaction had to eat some parmesan chicked because you were absent
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04:40 < deafferret> perlDreamer: Mondays are rough for IRC
04:41 <+perlDreamer> lots of meetings?
04:41 < deafferret> ya. 2 work locations, meetings all afternoon
04:42 < deafferret> I get some work done before 1pm, then not so much
04:42 <+perlDreamer> since starting my business, the number of meetings had dropped considerably
04:46 < deafferret> how do people waste your time if you're the boss?
04:47 <+patspam> does anyone know if there a good reason for wre perl to be compiled without threads support?
04:49 <+perlDreamer> deafferret, I have children
04:50 <+perlDreamer> patspam: would it interfere/clash with mod_perl/apache?
04:50 <+patspam> I'm wondering that too..
04:51 <+perlDreamer> although, perl -V on fedora says that it has a threaded perl
04:51 <+patspam> threads were "new and to be treated with caution" in 5.8, but supposedly stable and only 2% slower these days
04:51 <+patspam> yeah i think all the distros are moving to threaded perl now
04:51 <+perlDreamer> patspam, what do you develop and host on?
04:51 <+patspam> it might just be a wre legacy thing
04:52 <+patspam> i use wre perl
04:52 <+patspam> distro?
04:52 <+perlDreamer> yeah
04:52 <+patspam> ubuntu on my dev box
04:52 <+perlDreamer> I figure I'm the only person nuts enough to not use the wre
04:52 <+patspam> heh
04:52 < deafferret> g'night all
04:52 <+patspam> you use 5.10, that's awesome
04:52 <+perlDreamer> later, deafferret
04:53 * perlDreamer wants to use say, ~~, switch and all the other goodies
04:53 <+patspam> yeah, i'm dying to use them too
04:55 <+patspam> I'll ask the list. I'm sure riven and synq know
04:55 <+perlDreamer> yeah, maybe Haarg, too
05:00 * perlDreamer switches to Dad mode
05:00 <+perlDreamer> catch y'all later :)
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11:17 <+BartJol> nice interview Patrick
11:24 <+patspam> thanks Bart :)
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13:25 < CIA-46> WebGUI: brian * r9698 /branch/crop/lib/WebGUI/ (Asset/File/Image.pm Storage.pm i18n/English/Asset_Image.pm): checkpoint
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17:14 < CIA-46> WebGUI: brian * r9699 /branch/crop/lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm: checkpoint
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17:38 <+BartJol> khenn: I posted a macro for your rfe http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/add-quotsite-rankingsquot-to-karma
17:38 <@khenn> cool
17:39 <@khenn> I think I submitted that a few years back
17:39 <+BartJol> it kinda works
17:39 <@khenn> yeah seems to be missing the stars
17:39 <+BartJol> but you need to take care of all the files and groupId
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17:39 <+BartJol> but I don't know pb's staff groupId
17:40 <+BartJol> and there is more karma nowadays
17:40 <+BartJol> but to give all those variables as parameters, seemed a bit odd to me
17:42 <+BartJol> oh, and khenn don't minde the part where all the db and ssh data is e-mailed to me, it's not important
17:42 <@khenn> heh
17:42 <+BartJol> ;)
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17:44 <+BartJol> tavisto: now I'm starting to get impatient
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18:28 <+BartJol> who does receive messages from posts on the rfe list? I think one can be closed
18:28 <@Haarg> which one?
18:29 <+BartJol> http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/last-post-of-a-user-on-the-plainblack-/-webgui_org-site
18:31 <+BartJol> wait, maybe I'm wrong
18:31 <+BartJol> yeah, I am, again, I'm starting to bug me
18:31 <+BartJol> sorry Haarg
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18:32 <+BartJol> just wishfull thinking
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18:42 <+perlDreamer> haven't read this one yet, but I will later today
18:42 <+perlDreamer> http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/qibpbk7lXXE/article.pl
18:42 <+perlDreamer> Comparing usability in wordpress and joomla
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18:56 <@Haarg> very odd
18:56 <@Haarg> every time i run the full test suite, t/ProfileCategory.t fails
18:56 <@Haarg> but if i run it on its own it works
18:57 <+perlDreamer> have you tried prove -v to figure out exactly what's failing?
18:58 <@Haarg> not yet
18:58 <+perlDreamer> I'll try it on my dev box to see what happens
18:58 <@Haarg> that would be a books worth of output to go through though
18:59 <+perlDreamer> but when I helped SynQ with the WRE two weeks ago, full test suites were passing
18:59 <+perlDreamer> are you using any switches?
18:59 <+perlDreamer> CODE_COP?
18:59 <+perlDreamer> TEST_POD?
19:00 <@Haarg> both
19:00 <+perlDreamer> I'll try a quick run without, and see what that turns up
19:00 <@Haarg> there are a couple test failures i have fixes for
19:01 <+perlDreamer> brb
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19:05 <+perlDreamer> back
19:06 <@Haarg> re http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/9808
19:06 <@Haarg> i think there's a typo there, and it it breaks the help test
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19:08 <+perlDreamer> that's possible, but I thought I ran the i18n and help tests after fixing that
19:11 <+perlDreamer> for me profileCategory.t fails without the extra switches
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19:16 <+perlDreamer> dumping categories and rerunning
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19:20 <+perlDreamer> Haarg: I changed two things at the same time
19:20 <+perlDreamer> 1) added dumping to the ProfileCategories test
19:20 <+perlDreamer> 2) Fixed a permission problem on uploads/temp
19:20 <+perlDreamer> the next test run did not fail with profileCategory.t
19:21 <+perlDreamer> which tests do you have fixes for?
19:21 <@Haarg> survey
19:21 <@Haarg> which is committed
19:21 <@Haarg> and the ad tests
19:21 <@Haarg> i'm going to keep looking at ProfileCategory
19:22 <@Haarg> if you could look at help i'd appreciate it
19:22 <+perlDreamer> you bet
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19:23 < SynQ2> hi all
19:23 <@Haarg> greetings
19:23 <+perlDreamer> hole, SynQ2
19:23 < SynQ2> I was wondering
19:24 < SynQ2> last night JT said that it was unwise to update the perl modules in the WRE when new perl modules are available, since that would introduce more bugs than it would solve.
19:24 < SynQ2> I have thought about that
19:24 < SynQ2> and I think I disagree
19:25 <+perlDreamer> if he were here, he would point out the JSON module as an example of that
19:25 * MrHairgrease is nit surpised =)
19:25 < SynQ2> but that was a MAJOR upgrade
19:25 < SynQ2> not a minor one
19:25 <+perlDreamer> there were problem in the 1.9 series of JSON, as well
19:25 < SynQ2> that was not a bugfix
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19:25 < SynQ2> that was a full upgrade to a different program
19:26 < SynQ2> new features in webgui also introduce more bugs in the beginning than leaving them be would?
19:27 < SynQ2> but I agree on the 'stable' vs. 'experimental' view with JT though
19:27 < SynQ2> which sort of defies the argument :)
19:30 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, it's fixed and committed. I either missed that, or didn't run the test
19:30 <@Haarg> thanks
19:31 <+perlDreamer> is VersionTag.t failing for you?
19:31 <@Haarg> no
19:31 <+perlDreamer> I'll rerun it, and try it standalone
19:32 <@Haarg> http://gist.github.com/73413
19:35 <@Haarg> pod on ::ProfileCategory->set says 'Update the profile field properties. Any property that is missing, or empty will be replaced with a default.'
19:37 <+perlDreamer> that's not true either, but it's more accurate than what was there.
19:37 <+perlDreamer> the 3 flags get reset if they are not present
19:37 <+perlDreamer> but the labels don't
19:38 <@Haarg> you sure?
19:38 <@Haarg> reads to me like they get reset if not provided
19:38 <@Haarg> which is what causes the test to fail
19:39 <+perlDreamer> then why does it behave differently if you run it standalone?
19:39 <@Haarg> it doesn't i don't think
19:39 <@Haarg> i think i've just been neglecting to reset between test runs :/
19:39 <+perlDreamer> ah
19:40 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9700 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Wobject/Survey/SurveyJSON.t: survey test fix
19:40 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9701 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Search.pm: Fix a missing help entry in the i18n for the Search.
19:42 < SynQ2> I would like to see Cache in the configfile turned to 'Database' by default, what are the arguments against that?
19:43 <@Haarg> there are situations where the file cache perfoms better, but i tend to agree that db cache should be default
19:44 <+perlDreamer> I used to think it was good that the tests kind of cross checked one another, but there are times when it is a huge pain
19:45 <@Haarg> committed profilecategory test fix
19:47 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, that test is "destructive" in that it changes the db config
19:47 <+perlDreamer> should it reset that at the END?
19:47 <@Haarg> which test?
19:47 <+perlDreamer> ProfileCategory.t
19:47 <@Haarg> ah
19:47 <@Haarg> yeah, it probably should
19:48 <+perlDreamer> I'll fix that
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19:54 < SDuensin> Hey gang, is there a way to allow users edit rights to a page without creating a group for every one of them?
19:55 <@Haarg> they can be set as the owner
19:55 <@Haarg> there can only be one owner of course
19:55 < SDuensin> Then just put them in "Turn Admin On"?
19:56 <@Haarg> yeah
19:56 < SDuensin> Ok, cool. I was headed that way, but figured I'd make sure.
19:58 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, I'm still having wgd reset problems
19:58 <@Haarg> permissions?
19:58 <+perlDreamer> yes
19:58 <@Haarg> how are they getting set?
19:58 <+perlDreamer> the uploads/temp is never changed to be group writable
19:58 <+perlDreamer> drwxr-sr-x 18 apache users 4096 2009-03-03 10:00 temp
19:59 <@Haarg> i'm guessing a webgui problem
19:59 <@Haarg> since wgd reset won't create 'temp'
19:59 <+perlDreamer> good point
19:59 <@Haarg> and webgui doesn't have that same permissions logic
20:00 <@tavisto> SynQ2, did you get JT's email a few minutes ago? :)
20:00 <+perlDreamer> this must happen during the upgrade then
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20:01 <@tavisto> Mech422, you around?
20:02 <+perlDreamer> yup
20:08 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9702 /WebGUI/t/ProfileCategory.t: fix ProfileCategory test misusing the API
20:08 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9703 /WebGUI/t/ProfileCategory.t: Restore the original properties for the profile category that was modified for test.
20:08 < CIA-46> WebGUI: koen * r9704 /wrebuild/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Tools for developers in a separate directory.
20:10 * perlDreamer goes to the gym
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20:18 < SynQ2> ok
20:18 < SynQ2> tavisto: my response has been posted just now :)
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20:18 < SynQ2> I was busy looking at it
20:19 < SynQ2> hi Kristy
20:19 < SynQ2> ie
20:19 <@tavisto> what do you think?
20:19 < SynQ2> tavisto: http://www.webgui.org/web_design_templates_and_themes/webgui-site-redesign/1
20:19 < SynQ2> :)
20:20 < SynQ2> my first reaction was: 'where do I have to start'
20:20 < SynQ2> they all have so much info in it
20:20 < SynQ2> http://www.joomla.org/
20:21 < SynQ2> three clear choices for newcomers
20:21 < SynQ2> not to much butterflies all over the page
20:21 < SynQ2> that I like
20:22 < SynQ2> this is allready a bit less: http://www.typo3.com and gives me the same reaction as the current suggestion in 'webgui-site-redesign'
20:22 < SynQ2> This is a bit too boring for my taste: http://www.opencms.org/en/
20:23 < SynQ2> This is perhaps even better then the joomla site: http://www.opensourcecms.com
20:23 < SynQ2> for a landing page that is
20:24 < SynQ2> For a community portal this is not bad: http://php.opensourcecms.com/ allthough I still think 'IN YOUR FACE' banners suck especially if they move
20:26 < SynQ2> This has the same 'suggested' clockwork http://ariadne.muze.nl/ and has had that for years now
20:26 <@tavisto> ack, that looks like something from a mid 90's powerpoint
20:27 <@tavisto> I don't like the typo3 site at all, looks low budget IMO
20:27 < SynQ2> well
20:27 <@tavisto> I like joomla's site, and open source cms intro is not real useful
20:27 <@tavisto> it's just a splash with 3 options
20:27 <@tavisto> :)
20:27 < SynQ2> ok
20:27 < SynQ2> for a newcomer 3 options is allready a lot :)
20:27 <@tavisto> we are trying to instantly present options to people AND reach out to newbs
20:28 < SynQ2> have you read my post?
20:28 <@tavisto> so maybe we can improve the newbie friendliness
20:28 <@tavisto> yep
20:28 < SynQ2> if you then look at the joomla site
20:28 < SynQ2> these 3 large things on the top
20:28 <@tavisto> I think the crown is supposed to be the thing that reaches out to the new visitors. But what you are saying is that you didn't see that when the design loaded?
20:28 < SynQ2> that is drawing all your attention to it
20:28 < SynQ2> no I didn't
20:29 < SynQ2> I gather Wg2009spec.jpg is the landingpage?
20:29 <@tavisto> yeah, I understand that, we did the same thing with the 3 categories on our site. However, you're right we did opt to go with a designer section instead of a new visitor section
20:29 <@tavisto> yes, that is the home
20:29 < SynQ2> what I saw there was 'designer' 'community' 'developer'
20:29 <@tavisto> I talked with Mego about whether or not a designer section at the bottom would be as important as having a new visitor section
20:30 < SynQ2> what I missed was 'Right here, right now' I only saw that when I really looked at the page for like 20 seconds
20:30 < SynQ2> that middle section should me more 'in your face'
20:30 <@tavisto> gotcha, we'll lets see what other people say and maybe there will be a case for one of the sections to switch to new visitors
20:30 < SynQ2> thus lighter and bigger than the 3 'designer' 'community' 'developer' thing
20:31 < SynQ2> I'll do a mockup of what I mean
20:31 < SynQ2> hang on...
20:31 <@tavisto> sure, you should attach it to your post for greater clarification
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20:54 <@bopbop> SynQ2: just read your post, and I love the idea of using a dashboard so users can customize the type of news or updates they want to see
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21:00 < SynQ2> ok
21:00 < SynQ2> added mockup to the discussion page
21:06 < SynQ2> bopbop: do say that on the disussion in that place
21:06 <@bopbop> yep, will do
21:06 < SynQ2> the more people join in the discussion the better the site will become
21:06 < SynQ2> have you seen my mockup?
21:07 < SynQ2> Obviously I am not a designer
21:07 <@bopbop> I did- JT will say you're trying to copy Joomla, which he won't like :)
21:07 <@bopbop> however,
21:08 <@bopbop> I do think it draws attention to those areas nicely
21:08 < SynQ2> I am not trying to copy Joomla
21:08 <@bopbop> it was something the designer was struggling with
21:08 < SynQ2> I would like to copy their method of drawing attention to the 'go next here' way
21:08 < SynQ2> beter stolen well then created poorly
21:09 <@bopbop> I know you're not trying to copy Joomla.... I understand the intention, and I agree that it does a nice job of making it obvious for site users
21:09 < SynQ2> ok
21:09 < SynQ2> than say that on the discussion :)
21:09 <@bopbop> ok
21:09 < SynQ2> I gotta run
21:09 < SynQ2> driving home to wife and kid
21:09 < SynQ2> I'll be online tonight
21:09 < SynQ2> in an hour or so
21:24 <+MrHairgrease> is there something like a pastebin for images?
21:25 <+MrHairgrease> ah, imagebin.ca
21:25 <+MrHairgrease> anybody see the link? http://imagebin.ca/view/KMAetx.html
21:25 <+MrHairgrease> finally some recognision!
21:37 * SDuensin preaches the good word all over!
21:38 <+MrHairgrease> the weird thing is, though, that in all the comments the word webgui isn't being mentioned as far as i can tell
21:38 <+MrHairgrease> apart from the tag that is
22:04 <+perlDreamer> MrHairgrease, it must have been a keyword entered by the submitter
22:04 <+perlDreamer> but, you're right!
22:05 <+perlDreamer> Now, someone with a slashdot account, go talk about WebGUI in that thread!
22:07 <@preaction> i believe in slashdot you can be a normal user and tag articles
22:09 <+perlDreamer> is webgui.org down?
22:09 * deafferret votes no
22:09 <@preaction> not for me
22:13 <@preaction> wonderful. WebGUI::User->acceptsPrivateMessages takes a userId, but WebGUI::User->acceptsFriendsRequest takes another WebGUI::User object...
22:13 <@preaction> it also does no validation, so the error shows up in WebGUI::Cache::FileCache
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22:17 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9705 /WebGUI/ (t/AdSpace.t lib/WebGUI/AdSpace/Ad.pm t/AdSpace/Ad.t): fix AdSpace, Ad tests
22:17 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9706 /WebGUI/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.6.14 release
22:21 <+perlDreamer> preaction: we have to make WebGUI 8 have a common API
22:22 <@preaction> perlDreamer: do you have a dropbox?
22:22 <+perlDreamer> yes
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22:48 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, are you in the middle of a release?
22:48 <@Haarg> yes
22:48 <+perlDreamer> I'm glad I asked :)
22:48 <@Haarg> and i'll be branching after that
22:49 <+perlDreamer> it's just a fix for extra debug output in a test
22:49 <+perlDreamer> it'll wait
23:06 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9707 /releases/WebGUI_7.6.14-stable: Release 7.6.14-stable
23:06 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9708 /branch/WebGUI_7.6: Create branch WebGUI_7.6
23:10 <+perlDreamer> boy, it was nice just having one branch for a while...
23:11 <@preaction> heh, i never have less than 7 different webguis on my system, and with git i suspect i'll be branching and merging a lot more
23:12 <@preaction> one? what is this number you speak of?
23:12 <+MrHairgrease> 1
23:12 <+MrHairgrease> there, hope that helps
23:13 <+perlDreamer> one
23:13 <+perlDreamer> uno
23:13 <+perlDreamer> einz
23:13 <+perlDreamer> that which is singular in nature, yet having a quantity along the real axis
23:13 <+perlDreamer> number of noses currently on your face
23:15 <+MrHairgrease> pd: it's eins
23:15 <+perlDreamer> it's just my Schwabish accent. Sorry, MrHairgrease.
23:15 <+MrHairgrease> I'm not offended
23:16 <+MrHairgrease> My German sucks anyway
23:16 <+MrHairgrease> =)
23:16 < SDuensin> I get this a lot, should I worry? WebGUI::Operation::Cron::www_runCronJob[295] - Could not create workflow instance for workflowId 'pbworkflow000000000007': It is a singleton workflow and is still running from the last invocation.
23:16 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin, you should find out that that workflow is, and why it's running for so long
23:17 <+perlDreamer> it's likely an email related workflow, and if it can't keep up, you can start to develop a backlog
23:17 <+perlDreamer> call RotoRooter
23:17 < SDuensin> It is, but I don't think I'm sending that much.
23:17 <@Haarg> yes, that is the mail queue workflow
23:17 < SDuensin> mailq says it's empty.
23:19 < SDuensin> Ran across that while trying to figure out why my calendar isn't pulling in a feed.
23:41 < SDuensin> can you make a tmpl_loop run backwards?
23:45 <+perlDreamer> no
23:45 <+perlDreamer> not in HTML::Template at least
23:45 < SDuensin> Ok. I'm not entirely sure what this lady is wanting from me anyway. :-)
23:45 <+perlDreamer> what is she trying to do?
23:46 < SDuensin> Beats me. I've got an online store for her and she wants everything "reversed".
23:46 < SDuensin> I'm assuming she means the order the products are displayed.
23:46 < SDuensin> I flipped 'em in the asset manager.
23:47 <+perlDreamer> much easier
23:47 <+perlDreamer> you can do that with variants, too, if you have the variant editing controls displayed
23:47 < SDuensin> Yea, but she said "reverse it", so I did that. Now she says "reverse it". Um. Ok.
23:48 < SDuensin> Dude, don't even get me going on the variants again. :-P
23:48 <+perlDreamer> lineage is not versioned, so that shouldn't be a problem
--- Day changed Wed Mar 04 2009
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00:39 < SynQ> hi there :)
00:41 <+perlDreamer> he's back!
00:41 <+perlDreamer> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
00:42 * preaction hides
00:45 < SynQ> I'm just a boy whose intentions are good, o god please don't let me be misunderstood
00:46 * SynQ turns away from those unfriendly peoply who make him feel like he is not wanted here
00:46 -!- SynQ [n=SynQ@f69189.upc-f.chello.nl] has quit ["Leaving."]
00:46 <@preaction> NO WAIT COME BACK I LOVE YOUUUUU
00:46 <@preaction> sigh... i'm gonna miss him
00:51 <+perlDreamer> don't feel too bad, he didn't really leave
00:51 < deafferret> you misunderstood
00:51 < deafferret> right after he told you not to
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00:52 <@preaction> yay! the prodigal sun returns
00:52 < SynQ> let's try that again
00:52 < SynQ> hi there :)
00:52 < SynQ> I have had a very hard day
00:53 < SynQ> and my toes are very easily tred upon right now
00:53 <@preaction> we love you, really
00:53 < SynQ> but that is not your fault actually
00:53 <@preaction> we tease because we care
00:53 < SynQ> I know
00:53 <@preaction> i know, you're just easy to love
00:53 <@preaction> i try to fight it, but i can't help myself
00:53 <@preaction> WHY OH WHY CAN'T I QUIT YOU
00:54 < SynQ> hehe
00:54 < SynQ> today is a day where everything goes wrong
00:55 <@preaction> heh, and that's different from every other day.. how?
00:55 < SynQ> in that on other days I still move forward in one way or another
00:55 <@preaction> ah, yeah i can see that being an issue
00:56 < SynQ> my car broke down one day before being scheduled for maintenance at the garage
00:56 * perlDreamer is sorry, SynQ. It was a poor joke at your expense.
00:56 < SynQ> perlDreamer: it's ok
00:56 <@preaction> it's all your fault you insensitive ass
00:56 <+perlDreamer> it's true
00:56 < SynQ> I love you both
00:56 <+perlDreamer> And I just went and pissed off ehab
00:56 < SynQ> to make up for it?
00:56 <@preaction> omg! stop! i can't fix everything!
00:57 < SynQ> I know
00:57 < SynQ> but your last post on working at home was really helpfull to me
00:57 <@preaction> heh, but your car had it in for you, seriously ;)
00:57 <@preaction> i told it not to, but it felt like playing a joke
00:57 < SynQ> it was just that small tip over the border I needed to set some lines in our household
00:57 < SynQ> if I want to work I'm working
00:58 < SynQ> like right now
00:58 < SynQ> :P
00:58 < SynQ> I still get 30 more minutes to work
00:58 <@preaction> yeah, when i was working in my living room with my gf living here, i wouldn't get any work done until she left
00:59 < SynQ> but you got a lot of action and that is worth someting ;)
00:59 <@preaction> well, not so much action, which is why i will now amend my comment by saying "ex-gf"
00:59 < SynQ> ah
00:59 <@preaction> can't win them all
00:59 <@preaction> can't even win most of them
01:00 <@preaction> but the ones you do win make up for everything
01:00 < SynQ> at least I have I very sweet and loving wife and a adorable baby
01:00 <+perlDreamer> she isn't reading over your shoulder, is she?
01:00 <@preaction> mmm raison d'etre
01:00 <+perlDreamer> my wife does that all the time
01:00 < SynQ> perlDreamer: she is feeding Emma
01:00 < SynQ> so no
01:00 <@preaction> ha, she doesn't have to, that's why SynQ is better than us!
01:01 < SynQ> she isn't
01:01 <@preaction> he doesn't have that mixed awe/fear of his wife, they are equal partners in this journey of life!
01:01 <@preaction> it's all awe, baby!
01:01 <@preaction> awe-some!
01:01 < SynQ> she knows I am an open book and always direct so no need to read over my shoulder indeed
01:01 <@preaction> okay, maybe laid it on a bittle thick there
01:01 <@preaction> ooh, i made a new word
01:01 <@preaction> where's the coffee?
01:01 < SynQ> preaction: well actually
01:02 < SynQ> that sums it up pretty well
01:02 <@preaction> wait, it's after 5p. no more caffiene for me
01:02 < SynQ> where can I order a sixpack of spotted cow?
01:03 <@preaction> uhh... durno
01:03 < SynQ> New Glarus beer is available only in Wisconsin.
01:03 <@preaction> we don't have many online grocery stores around here. peepod died pretty quick
01:03 < SynQ> says: http://www.newglarusbrewing.com/Distribution.cfm
01:03 < SynQ> that sucks
01:03 <@preaction> yeah, that too
01:03 <@preaction> that does suck, more people need the awesomeness that is new glarus beers
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01:04 <@preaction> when i'm not getting new glarus, or stuff from the Great Dane (a nice oatmeal stout), i settle for guinness stout
01:04 <@preaction> Great Dane is even less distributed than New Glarus
01:04 < SynQ> what county is madison in?
01:05 <@preaction> Dane county, WI
01:05 < SynQ> ah nice
01:06 < SynQ> preaction: do you know hopgoblin?
01:06 <@preaction> nope
01:07 < SynQ> Hobgoblin even
01:07 < SynQ> http://www.wychwood.co.uk/
01:08 < SynQ> they have got paddy'sTout
01:08 < SynQ> that is nice too
01:09 < SynQ> very hoppy
01:09 <@preaction> sounds nice
01:10 < SynQ> I'm starting to get thirsty
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01:57 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9709 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (4 files in 4 dirs): preparing for 7.6.15 dev
01:57 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9710 /branch/WebGUI_Story/lib/WebGUI/Asset/ (Wobject/StoryArchive.pm Story.pm): Handle the case when purging a story, and there's no storage location.
02:23 <+perlDreamer> are new template variables supposed to be camel case, or underscored?
02:25 <@preaction> i tend to use underscore for categories
02:25 <@preaction> so "url_view" "user_firstName" "exif_cameraType"
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02:30 <+perlDreamer> thanks, preaction.
02:34 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9711 /branch/WebGUI_Story/t/Asset/Wobject/StoryArchive.t: Tests for StoryArchive view variables.
02:34 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9712 /branch/WebGUI_Story/lib/WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Template help and i18n for the view template.
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03:12 <@preaction> i think we need to have another look at the user profile API
03:12 <@preaction> list-type fields, $user->profileField('alist') returns the value, but sometimes i will want the label
03:13 <+perlDreamer> isn't that usually i18n'ed?
03:13 <@preaction> if it is, it's not editable by the admin
03:13 <@preaction> they can't add new options without me
03:13 <@preaction> which i think defeats the purpose
03:14 <+perlDreamer> just what is it that you're trying to do?
03:14 <@preaction> so either i can't program against a list type, or they can't edit the list type
03:14 * perlDreamer puts on his suspicious old man developer hat
03:14 <@preaction> there's a list type, i need to display the value in a template
03:14 <@preaction> er.. i mean the label
03:14 <@preaction> but that means i have to instantiate the profile field and parse the options, a suboptimal solution
03:14 <+perlDreamer> I think you'll have to do that in any case
03:15 <@preaction> especially since that means i am essentially tying myself to that profile field type
03:15 <+perlDreamer> it only stores the value
03:15 <@preaction> if it later becomes a text type, my code breaks
03:17 <+perlDreamer> that is true
03:18 <+perlDreamer> but how often is "sometimes"?
03:19 <@preaction> anytime i am displaying the value to the end-user
03:19 <@preaction> however, when searching, i have to use the internal value
03:19 <@preaction> ... even more ugliness
03:19 <@preaction> oh, well, i suppose if they're both the same it doesn't matter
03:19 <@preaction> and if they're not there has to be a damned good reason for it
03:20 <+perlDreamer> in the profile itself, this isn't a problem, since it has access to the possibleValues hash for the list type
03:20 <+perlDreamer> so it's only outside of it that's a problem
03:20 <+perlDreamer> like the User macro
03:20 <@preaction> and it's only a problem if the admin assigns a key:value pair, instead of just value\nvalue\n
03:21 <+perlDreamer> does that work? I thought all list types were key/value pairs.
03:22 <@preaction> there are a few different ways of configuring form controls, which i hope to consolidate sometime soon. the most common way is the one the DataForm uses
03:22 <@preaction> which allow for values, one per line. or key|value one per line
03:23 <+perlDreamer> it's time for me to take a break
03:24 <+perlDreamer> I keep typing worfklow
03:24 <@preaction> heh, yeah, sounds like
03:24 <+perlDreamer> that's worse than tempalte
03:24 <@preaction> though i should mention i always type worlfkow
03:24 <+perlDreamer> bbl
03:24 * perlDreamer is secretly hoping he's channeling Roddenbery
03:25 <+perlDreamer> worf klow must be klingon
03:30 < SDuensin> So would I be insane to allow every user the ability to create a page on my site?
03:33 <@preaction> nope
03:33 < SDuensin> Muhahaha.
03:35 <@preaction> for what purpose?
03:36 < SDuensin> Give everyone in town a home page on the town's web site.
03:37 <@preaction> ah, nice
03:38 < SDuensin> Still trying to figure out where my calendar feed went.
03:38 <@preaction> you could modify the demo system to give everyone their own site
03:38 < SDuensin> Does it expect to read external calendars in iCal format?
03:38 < SDuensin> No, they want their own site, they get to BUY it. :-)
03:38 <@preaction> iCalendar format, yes
03:38 < SDuensin> But yes, I'm hacking things up to automate that as well.
03:38 < SDuensin> Ok, that's why my feed isn't working.
04:07 < SDuensin> Man, every time I import a calendar feed, I get duplicates. :-(
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04:08 < elnino> HI! I'm now installing wre on an ubunto system.. new experience... anyway, it's already have perl on it.. So, if I want to install wre, do I uninstall the existing perl first? or does wre install in the "normal" directorys and will overwrite the existing install?
04:08 < elnino> what what version of perl is in the latest wre version?
04:08 < SDuensin> I imported the US Holidays calendar from Google. I have things like St. Patrick's Day on both the 17th (correct) and the 18th (not).
04:09 < SDuensin> Looks like 5.10.0, elnino
04:09 <@preaction> elnino: the WRE installs in its own directory. when you're using it, you make sure to ". /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment.sh" (there is a space between . and /), so that you are using the correct Perl
04:09 < SDuensin> wait.
04:10 < SDuensin> 5.8.8
04:10 < SDuensin> preaction - Ever see that calendar issue before?
04:10 <@preaction> yes, i suspect time-zone issues
04:11 < SDuensin> :-(
04:11 <@preaction> is it exactly 5 hours off each way?
04:11 * SDuensin is CST.
04:11 < SDuensin> Checking.
04:11 <@preaction> CST would be 6 hours then
04:12 < SDuensin> Not sure. For example, St. Pat's says: SCHEDULED
04:12 < SDuensin> Tuesday, March 17 ? Wednesday, March 18
04:13 < SDuensin> http://new.smithton.net/calendar/events?type=list
04:13 <@preaction> look at the details for the event in the webgui calendar
04:13 < SDuensin> That's where I got the text I pasted. There are no times.
04:14 <@preaction> huh, that's weird
04:14 < SDuensin> http://new.smithton.net/calendar/events/st6.-patricks-d
04:14 < SDuensin> Leave it to me to find "weird".
04:14 <@preaction> i'd post it as a bug and attach the icalendar feed you got the event from
04:14 <@preaction> peraps the parser is choking again
04:14 < SDuensin> ok - can do
04:14 < SDuensin> Thanks.
04:14 < SDuensin> 7.6.14? When'd that sneak out!?
04:14 <@preaction> today
04:15 < SDuensin> Here I was going to load 13 and got a nice surprise. :-)
04:18 <+perlDreamer> sorry, no more bugs
04:18 <+perlDreamer> all bugs in the core have been fixed
04:18 < elnino> so. do I need to remive the existing perl before installing wre? or am I ok with both instances?
04:18 <+perlDreamer> to get new bugs, we need new code
04:18 <+perlDreamer> calendar is old cod
04:18 < elnino> sounds like Ican have both.
04:18 <+perlDreamer> no code
04:18 <@preaction> elnino: you're okay with both. the . /... thing does the switch for you
04:18 <+perlDreamer> no bugs in it
04:19 <@preaction> that's how we could fix the calendar!
04:19 < SDuensin> :-P
04:19 <+perlDreamer> take all the code out of it? yup, that would work
04:19 <@preaction> no code == no bugs!
04:20 <@preaction> then i can keep my hair!
04:20 * preaction pets his hair lovingly
04:20 <+perlDreamer> what does your hair have to do with calendar bugs?
04:20 <@preaction> they're making me lose my hair!
04:20 < elnino> thatnks preaction and SDuensin for your help.
04:21 <+perlDreamer> well, if the calendar is making you lose hair, what is the unmentionalble asset doing to you?
04:21 < SDuensin> Anytime, elnino - WebGUI is DA BOMB!
04:21 <+perlDreamer> we do not use its name...
04:21 <@preaction> THAT one is working fine, because the person who wrote it was smart
04:22 < SDuensin> Bug filed.
04:22 <@preaction> or do you mean that OTHER asset
04:22 <+perlDreamer> won't say it
04:24 <@preaction> there's only one asset that is the bane of my existence, and that is the Calendar
04:24 <@preaction> all other assets are cool with me
04:24 <+perlDreamer> DTSTART=;VALUE=DATE:20090222\nDTEND;VALUE=DATE:20090223
04:24 <+perlDreamer> that's why they're two days long
04:24 <@preaction> the only problem is there's some sort of comraderie between assets, and they won't gangstomp the calendar for me
04:25 <+perlDreamer> because they SAY they're 2 days long
04:25 < SDuensin> They do? That's F'ed up!
04:25 <@preaction> YEAH! SCORE 1 FOR NOT MY FAULT!
04:25 < SDuensin> hehehe
04:25 <+perlDreamer> Google attempts to take over the world by reworking specs
04:25 * preaction does not mention the score for "TOTALLY MY FAULT"
04:25 <+perlDreamer> sounds vaguely familiar..
04:25 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: karma preaction
04:25 < perlbot> Karma for preaction: 32
04:26 < SDuensin> Ok, so if I yank the feed now, do I have to manually remove each entry from my calendar?
04:26 <@preaction> uh... yes?
04:26 <@preaction> i don't remember really
04:26 < SDuensin> That's not the right answer!
04:28 <+perlDreamer> hold his feet to the fire, SDuensin!
04:28 < SDuensin> But... But... How can Google be WRONG?!
04:33 <+perlDreamer> you know, in that wordpress/joomla article, WebGUI compares pretty well to wordpress in number of clicks
04:33 < SDuensin> Number of clicks?
04:34 <+perlDreamer> The author compares usability to the number of clicks it takes to do something
04:34 <+perlDreamer> like, add a blog
04:35 <+perlDreamer> add an article, page
04:35 <+perlDreamer> etc
04:35 <+perlDreamer> http://www.playingwithwire.com/2009/03/open-source-and-usability-joomla-vs-wordpress/
04:35 <+perlDreamer> this is where rizen and tavisto need to step quickly in and compare WebGUI to Wordpress, Joomla and Drupal
04:36 <@preaction> http://blog.tmcnet.com/telecom-crm/2009/01/15/sagecrm-v62-wheaton-college-and-webgui-alterian-and-jaguar-accenture-r.asp <- anyone see this? second section
04:37 < SDuensin> I've used all three. My empire runs on WebGUI. My last non-GUI site is going bye-bye this week.
04:38 < SDuensin> Excellent! Go Wheaton!
04:39 <+perlDreamer> nice!
04:39 <+perlDreamer> more linkage
04:39 <@preaction> uhoh, on their library site they've got a "New! Try our new catalog interface", which isn't WebGUI
04:39 <@preaction> http://library.wheaton.edu/
04:40 < SDuensin> Kick their ass.
04:40 <@preaction> and it looks like they could use some development guides
04:40 <@preaction> nono, though perhaps we should enter a beneficial business relationship with them
04:40 <@preaction> tavisto!
04:40 <@preaction> damn him.. never around when i need him
04:40 <@preaction> marketing jocks are all the same
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04:41 <+perlDreamer> maybe you have to say his name 3 times, like Beetlejuice?
04:41 <+perlDreamer> preaction, that's also 7.0.8
04:41 <@preaction> yeah, i saw that too
04:42 <+perlDreamer> old 7x code
04:42 <+perlDreamer> upgrades would do them a world of good
04:42 <@preaction> which is why it's vitally important that we tell them, if they're migrating away from webgui, to upgrade before they finalize that decision
04:42 <@preaction> 7.0 is what, 3 years old now?
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04:42 <+perlDreamer> if it's user facing, wouldn't it be finalized?
04:43 <@preaction> it's under development, we still have a chance! we break in and steal the SOURCE
04:43 <@preaction> because there's no chance they have a robust backup procedure or anything
04:44 <+perlDreamer> tavisto
04:44 <+perlDreamer> tavisto
04:44 <+perlDreamer> tavisto
04:45 <@preaction> he cannot help us
04:46 <+perlDreamer> he can tomorrow
04:46 <@preaction> we must h4x0r teh g1b53n
04:46 <+perlDreamer> stop daydreaming about Angelina Jolie
04:46 <@preaction> her lips are horrific
04:47 <@preaction> if only she didn't have those lips...
04:47 <@preaction> she's close, but no cigar
04:48 <+perlDreamer> I don't know...
04:48 <+perlDreamer> anybody that can curve a bullet around a room like that
04:49 * perlDreamer switches to Daddy mode.
04:52 <+perlDreamer> okay, i procrastinated
04:52 <+perlDreamer> the new interface is WebGUI, too
04:52 <@preaction> really?
04:52 <+perlDreamer> yeah
04:52 <@preaction> i checked the source and it didn't have the generator tag
04:53 <+perlDreamer> that's what the librarian says
04:53 <+perlDreamer> they have a realtime meebo chat interface :)
04:53 <+perlDreamer> either that, or this librarian doesn't know
04:53 * SDuensin uses Meebo on some WG sites.
04:54 <@preaction> the "VuFind discovery interface" thing isn't WG
04:54 <+perlDreamer> it sure doesn't look like it
04:54 <@preaction> eh, i see how it is though, there are about 50 different systems to integrate
04:55 <@preaction> colleges outrank gov't agencies in complexity
04:55 <+perlDreamer> they have fewer funds
04:55 * perlDreamer really goes into daddy mode now :)
04:56 <@preaction> http://www.gspm.org/Julie+Germany/130_Why-the-State-Department-Gets-It <- a nice blurb about one of our clients
05:00 <@preaction> okay, so if when creating a new user, their profile fields don't get any privacy values to start with, is that a bug?
05:03 <+perlDreamer> yes
05:03 <+perlDreamer> ask khenn
05:03 <@preaction> yeah, sent him an e-mail
05:03 <+perlDreamer> sounds like it needs a test written for that
05:08 <@khenn> yes that's a bug
05:09 <@preaction> submitting a bug
05:11 < SDuensin> How do I run spectre in debug so I can watch it?
05:12 <@khenn> cd /data/WebGUI/sbin
05:12 <@khenn> perl spectre.pl --debug I think
05:12 <@preaction> --run --debug
05:13 < SDuensin> ko
05:13 < SDuensin> Got a workflow going nuts here.
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05:18 < knowmad> patspam: nice write-up in PBWG
05:18 < knowmad> i never knew about that "easter egg" hidden in the gooey dolls
05:19 <+patspam> heh thanks william
05:19 < SDuensin> Man, something is MAD. Apache over-runs the memory limit about every 3 seconds.
05:19 < knowmad> i'll have to try it when i get to work tomorrow and see if it works!
05:19 < SDuensin> EAster egg?
05:19 < knowmad> read Pat's writeup -- http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/campaigns/people/patrick-donelan
05:19 <@preaction> SDuensin: perhaps the memory limit is too small?
05:19 < SDuensin> Beats me. Whatever shipped with it, I think.
05:20 < SDuensin> $Apache2::SizeLimit::MAX_PROCESS_SIZE = 100000;
05:20 < SDuensin> $Apache2::SizeLimit::MAX_UNSHARED_SIZE = 75000;
05:23 * knowmad is signing off
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05:24 <@preaction> SDuensin: yeah, up those both to 110000
05:24 < SDuensin> ok
05:24 <@preaction> it's Apache2::SizeLimit killing processes, right?
05:25 < SDuensin> yea
05:25 <@preaction> yeah, then that's the way to fix that
05:25 <@preaction> god... why is my drowsiness going away now...
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05:29 < SDuensin> When do user workflows run? At logon? Creation?
05:30 <@preaction> creation or update, depends on which trigger you use
05:30 <@preaction> they are set in the Settings panel
05:31 < SDuensin> Looking.
05:31 * SDuensin is installing http://www.webgui.org/bazaar/workflow-activity-to-create-personal-user-areas-when-user-is-created
05:32 < SDuensin> AH! The docs missed that part.
05:32 < SDuensin> Or I missed that part. Thanks again.
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05:39 < CIA-46> WebGUI: doug * r9713 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/User.pm): fixed #9852: Users can accept private messages from Visitor, but Visitor cannot send messages
05:40 <+perlDreamer> where's the test for that?
05:40 <@preaction> BITE ME
05:40 <@preaction> i mean, i left it in my other pants
05:40 <+perlDreamer> and don't forget to backport it
05:40 <@preaction> backport?
05:40 <@preaction> GOD
05:40 <+perlDreamer> yes
05:40 <+perlDreamer> back to 7.6
05:40 <+perlDreamer> from 7.7
05:41 <@preaction> i was all happy like "This will be easy" and you come and STOMP ON MY DREAMS
05:41 <+perlDreamer> actually, I think he did some backporting
05:41 <+perlDreamer> he forked Adam and made Eve
05:41 <+perlDreamer> and it still doesn't say where all those wives came from
05:41 <+patspam> http://www.sdhconsulting.com.au/tmp/passive-analytics-icons1.jpg
05:41 <+patspam> preferences?
05:42 <+perlDreamer> middle one
05:42 <@preaction> bar graph
05:42 <@preaction> line graph isn't as obvious "THIS IS A GRAPH"
05:42 <@preaction> bar graph is blunt, like a bar
05:42 <+perlDreamer> it's not a graph, it's a path through a website
05:42 <+perlDreamer> passively analyzing where the user has gone
05:42 <@preaction> oh,
05:42 <+perlDreamer> and, may I say, Wow does Andy make nice graphics.
05:43 <@preaction> indeed
05:43 <+perlDreamer> why isn't he in IRC?
05:43 <@preaction> perhaps make the user guy bigger?
05:43 <@preaction> and the line graph in front of the user
05:43 <+patspam> I'll see if i can get him in here
05:43 <+perlDreamer> back to showering kids, be back in 15
05:44 <+patspam> what irc client do you OSX folks use?
05:44 <@preaction> some use colloquy, but I use Xchat Aqua
05:45 < SDuensin> XCHAT!
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05:48 <+patspam> heh thanks, I think he'll be here shortly
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06:01 <+perlDreamer> I'm back
06:02 <+perlDreamer> andyiomoon, your graphics are awesome!
06:02 < elnino> YEA!
06:02 < andyiomoon> hehheh - why thank you
06:03 < andyiomoon> as I was telling Pat - I haven't used IRC in years!
06:03 * patspam chalks up another australian in the channel.. grand total of 3
06:03 <+perlDreamer> that means you just passed up the Dutch
06:03 < andyiomoon> who is the third?
06:03 <+perlDreamer> and that's an accomplishment
06:03 <+perlDreamer> Radix
06:03 <+patspam> he's in Perth
06:03 < elnino> no sorry, I don't know andyiomoon. YEA that perlDreamer is back. But I'll say "yea" for andyiomoon's graphics too.
06:03 < andyiomoon> or if I am the third who is the second
06:03 < andyiomoon> ah cool
06:04 <+patspam> elnino: andy is the "S" in SDH
06:05 < elnino> whos SDH? Oh good grief.. maybe I should read some history before "jumping in" (Hi patspam)
06:05 <+perlDreamer> elnino, have you kept up with the latest PBWG interview on webgui.org?
06:05 <+patspam> perlDreamer and preaction: refresh http://www.sdhconsulting.com.au/tmp/passive-analytics-icons1.jpg for the new icon
06:05 < elnino> not at all.
06:05 <+perlDreamer> the latest one is a certain well known spamproof australian
06:05 <@preaction> i likes!
06:05 <@preaction> when it gets down to teh very bottom, it's still recognizable
06:05 <+perlDreamer> very spritely
06:06 < andyiomoon> yep - took out the little man for the 16x16 - too muddy otherwise
06:06 < elnino> I did see patspam picture, is that what you're refering to?
06:06 <+perlDreamer> that's the one
06:06 < elnino> yes, that was a nice photo. =)
06:07 < andyiomoon> I still think the webgui doll should have been in focus and you all blurry pat
06:07 <+perlDreamer> SDH is the group that patspam, andyiomoon and H work for.
06:07 <+perlDreamer> We haven't met H yet, but based on the other 2/3's it bodes very well
06:07 < andyiomoon> more mystery that way :)
06:07 < andyiomoon> ahh perlDreamer you ol' silver tongue
06:08 <+patspam> perlDreamer: spamproof? dang did you hunt down my iconBuffet profile? or is that just a coincidence
06:08 <+perlDreamer> it's the psychic interface
06:09 <+perlDreamer> preaction: I'll backport and write the test.
06:10 <@preaction> already backported
06:10 <@preaction> test not writ though
06:11 <+perlDreamer> I thought you fixed the profile bug
06:12 <@preaction> yeah, visitors shouldn't see the "send message" links, caused by "acceptsPrivateMessage" being true
06:15 <+patspam> so depressing that the only way to get my printer to work reliably is to talk to it from inside a windows vm
06:16 <+perlDreamer> preaction: /me is confused
06:16 <+perlDreamer> there are no global privacy field settings
06:16 <+perlDreamer> at the profile field level
06:17 <+perlDreamer> so isn't having them all private correct?
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06:20 < CIA-46> WebGUI: doug * r9714 /WebGUI/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt: fixeding my borkes to the changelog
06:20 < CIA-46> WebGUI: doug * r9715 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/User.pm): backported 9713
06:22 <+perlDreamer> ProfileField doesn't even know about wg_privacysettings, aside from reserving it as a field name
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07:19 < elnino> oh.. I'm installing a new instance of wre and I'm missing something. I haven't done this before, only upgrades..
07:19 < elnino> I'm following http://www.plainblack.com/community-wiki/wre-installation.
07:20 < elnino> I untared and I'm attempting to run ./wreconsole.pl and then it talks about setting up a site. Is it not going to ask me to downoad webgui? I think I naswered my question.. =)
07:24 < elnino> hmm. after reading this I guess I'm wrong. my port 60834 seems not to be responding/
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07:39 < elnino> how do I get rid of old version of mp3 files that my user uploaded? is that taken care of the "delete old asset revisions" workflow?
07:44 < elnino> I see this: http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/clean-temp-storage but, I believe there to be missing information on this wiki.
07:44 <@preaction> elnino: delete old asset revisions is what takes care of that, but you can delete revisions manually if you want
07:45 < elnino> ok.. that workflow sounded like it only dealt with db entries.
07:45 < elnino> do you use ubunto by any chance?
07:45 <@preaction> no, os x
07:46 < elnino> ok.
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08:12 < elnino> port 60834 seems to be blocked, but I hav eno proof, nor know how to determine this.. Anyone there that can tell me what to look at on a ubunto system?
08:14 < elnino> patspam. fyi. on your website, your link to canto cumulus is broken.
08:14 < elnino> do you guys provide webgui hosting?
08:39 <+patspam> elnino: heh we have the most awesome website ever, single page, static html
08:39 <+patspam> and totally out of date
08:40 <+patspam> we don't host professionally, we outsource that to folks like procolix
08:46 < elnino> hi. patspam.. shouldn't you be using umm. webgui? =)
08:47 <+patspam> static html is the future, down with wg!
08:48 < elnino> ok then. =) I went to procolix.. who here manages that... I was looking for prices.
08:49 <+patspam> speak to Koen, aka SynQ
08:50 <+patspam> he should be waking up in an hour or 2 :)
08:50 <+patspam> meanwhile, I'm off, night all!
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09:05 < elnino> preaction, do you know Tiffany (SEO gal) and what is her website?
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09:22 <@preaction> elnino: elitedesignsltd.com
09:22 < elnino> oh yes. Thank you.
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16:02 < topsub> Is there a way in webgui i can import like 191 images with a zip file or something?
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16:05 <+MrHairgrease> topsub: I don't think so
16:05 <+MrHairgrease> but you can always use the fileImport script in sbin of course
16:05 < topsub> Ah i might have to look at that
16:05 <+MrHairgrease> provided you have server access that is
16:05 < topsub> i have 191 images to import
16:06 <+MrHairgrease> I always use fileImport for stuff like that
16:06 < topsub> cool i will give that a try
16:17 <+bartjol> tobsub, do you want to put them in a Gallery?
16:18 < topsub> bartjol, No, i just need them in an images folder
16:19 <+bartjol> I heard that has a zip import function?
16:19 <+bartjol> then I have to agree with Martin
16:19 < topsub> this is for a javascript captcha and these are the supporting images
16:19 <+bartjol> ah
16:19 <+bartjol> cool
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17:31 < elnino> MrHairgrease.. rumer has it that you are working on http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/9781is this true?
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17:32 <+MrHairgrease> I am not working on a PayPal plugin
17:33 <+MrHairgrease> but I heard there is one in the making
17:33 <+MrHairgrease> I'm not in on the details though
17:33 < elnino> hmm. are you working on any payment plugin?
17:33 <+MrHairgrease> Not currently, but I am working on other commerce stuff
17:33 * elnino is sad
17:34 <+MrHairgrease> Why?
17:34 < SDuensin> Greetings!
17:34 < elnino> cause you're not working on one.
17:34 <+MrHairgrease> 7.7 is far away anyway
17:34 < SDuensin> Isn't there a PayPal driver in the Bizarre?
17:34 < elnino> I know.. That's why I was exceited to hear that you were working on one. I must have misundertood, or forgot who they said.
17:34 < elnino> I'll look again SDuensin
17:35 <+MrHairgrease> I think Joeri is working on one
17:35 <+MrHairgrease> but as i said, I'm not in on the details
17:35 < elnino> hey. . there it is! It's New!
17:35 <+MrHairgrease> and I know for a fact that he's very busy
17:35 < SDuensin> :-)
17:35 < elnino> was it you SDuensin?
17:36 < SDuensin> No, I just happened to see it last night.
17:36 < elnino> no author listed. I'm trying it!!!
17:40 < elnino> Thanks! guys, you made my day.
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17:40 < SDuensin> Let us know how it goes. (Especially me!)
17:41 <+MrHairgrease> yeah, feedback in this direction is apprciated as well
17:41 < elnino> It'll be slow.. Got several projects going, but I know my customer wants this desparately. I'll post comments on the bazzar, or is it more appropriate here?
17:42 < SDuensin> Either/both. I'll find it next time I browse it. But coming here to chat is fun. :-)
17:43 < elnino> I just found out you can subscribe to it (far right column) then you'll be notified.
17:43 -!- tavisto [n=tavisto@pool-98-108-73-152.gdrpmi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #WebGUI
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17:59 < dionak> has anyone tested the paypal plugin yet?
17:59 < dionak> it will be a very useful addition to webgui
18:00 <+bartjol> elnino is trying I believe
18:01 <@tavisto> who created a paypal plugin?
18:01 < dionak> cool...looking forward to hearing about it. the rfe's were confusing
18:02 <@tavisto> I knew this was coming but didn't know it was already in testing
18:02 <+bartjol> tavisto: nothing will be published until you've made a cartoon
18:02 <@tavisto> haha
18:02 <+bartjol> but the publisger of the plugin is unknown
18:03 <@tavisto> don't worry, "the adventures of BartJol: The Big Dutch Girlyman" will soon be at newstands near you
18:03 <+bartjol> ah
18:04 < dionak> it's odd that the username of the plugin poster isn't displayed in the Bazaar.
18:04 <+bartjol> it is
18:05 <+bartjol> the mysterious anionymous contributer... abbreviated that's mac, so I guess it's a mac user
18:06 < dionak> bartjol must work nights as a comedian..
18:06 < elnino> I have to do a webgui upgrade before I can try this
18:09 < SDuensin> Do it, man! We wait with baited breath!
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18:13 <+perlDreamer> bopbop, I have the solution!
18:13 <+perlDreamer> SeasonShot is a green bullet alternative
18:14 <+perlDreamer> http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/science/03/04/green.bullets/index.html
18:14 <@bopbop> ah- yes it is
18:14 <+perlDreamer> Environmentally friendly and biodegradable
18:14 <+perlDreamer> Being tasty is just a side benefit
18:14 <@bopbop> lol- I just read that this am
18:14 <@bopbop> and tasty
18:14 <+perlDreamer> has the FDA approved it yet?
18:14 <@bopbop> dunno
18:14 <@bopbop> don't think so
18:14 <@bopbop> maybe this will do it
18:15 <+perlDreamer> Hope so.
18:15 <@bopbop> :)
18:15 <+perlDreamer> Okay, on to other business
18:15 <+perlDreamer> tavisto!
18:15 <+perlDreamer> Has preaction told you about Wheaton College's library site yet?
18:23 <@tavisto> perlDreamer, he has not told me a thing
18:23 <+perlDreamer> well, then
18:23 <+perlDreamer> we found a new WebGUI site
18:23 <@tavisto> do tell!
18:23 <@tavisto> here's another new one www.thebetterfish.com
18:23 <@tavisto> pretty sharp
18:24 <+perlDreamer> http://blog.tmcnet.com/telecom-crm/2009/01/15/sagecrm-v62-wheaton-college-and-webgui-alterian-and-jaguar-accenture-r.asp
18:25 <+perlDreamer> and if that isn't enough
18:25 <+perlDreamer> there was a Slashdot article yesterday comparing usability in WordPress and Joomla
18:26 <+perlDreamer> http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/qibpbk7lXXE/article.pl
18:26 <+perlDreamer> the author of the article basically did label and # of clicks to get a job done
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18:27 <+perlDreamer> Of course, Slashdot over-hyped it. The Joomla people didn't get upset about it
18:27 <+perlDreamer> but, it would be interesting to see comparisons of WebGUI against other CMS systems.
18:27 <+perlDreamer> could be good marketing, maybe the source for another story
18:32 <+perlDreamer> at the least, it would let us know things to fix in WebGUI for ease and speed of use
18:32 <+bartjol> yeah
18:32 <+bartjol> some feedback from other people than WebGUI junkies should be good
18:33 <+bartjol> maybe it's just addictive
18:35 <+perlDreamer> f00li5h, did you get hired? Is that why you changed your nick?
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18:40 < SDuensin> Have I mentioned in the last 10 minutes that I frickin' LOVE WebGUI?
18:41 < deafferret> SDuensin: yes. At 10:40.
18:41 <+perlDreamer> This would be a bad time to mention JSON in the db, then, yes? ;)
18:41 < SDuensin> :-P
18:41 < SDuensin> YES! It's EVIL!
18:43 <+MrHairgrease> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m43f9b963
18:44 <+MrHairgrease> I'm going crazy here
18:44 <+MrHairgrease> the problem is this
18:44 <+MrHairgrease> the pasted method does not return the full contents of the $json to the browser
18:45 <+MrHairgrease> it limits it to 8193 bytes
18:45 <+MrHairgrease> which is close to 8192
18:45 <+MrHairgrease> /tmp/barf.txt has the whole json string though
18:46 <+MrHairgrease> what could be limiting my output?
18:46 < daviddelikat> what does the caller look like?
18:46 <+MrHairgrease> eventually it's being called by WG::Content::Shop
18:47 <+MrHairgrease> it's an addition to WG::Shop::Vendor
18:47 < daviddelikat> so is it the web client that shows only ~8193 chars?
18:47 <+MrHairgrease> yes
18:47 < daviddelikat> lotta stuff in between there
18:47 < daviddelikat> not likelyl to be in the perl code you posted.
18:48 < daviddelikat> have you tried 'wget'?
18:48 <+MrHairgrease> yup
18:48 <+MrHairgrease> oh now it's 8348 bytes btw
18:48 <@tavisto> perlDreamer
18:49 <@tavisto> how is this a new site? Wheaton has been using WebGUI forever
18:49 < daviddelikat> can you give me a URL?
18:49 * perlDreamer didn't know tavisto
18:50 <@tavisto> http://www.plainblack.com/success/education/wheaton-college
18:50 <@tavisto> bad perlDreamer! bad!
18:50 < daviddelikat> MrHairgrease: a URL?
18:51 <+MrHairgrease> i pmed you
18:51 <+perlDreamer> the perl code is fine, MrHairgrease. I'd be looking at apache
18:51 <@tavisto> I'm sorry I have to do this perlDreamer, but I'm going to replace that shiny "I know everything" button on your vest with a "I almost know everything" button.
18:51 <+MrHairgrease> yeah i know
18:52 <+MrHairgrease> but i don't know where to look
18:52 <+MrHairgrease> everything else is fine
18:52 <+perlDreamer> tavisto, maybe it could say: I only know code
18:52 <+MrHairgrease> and most pages are prolly more that a lousy 8k
18:52 <@tavisto> *tavisto thinks perlDreamer makes a great 'walmart greeter' for WebGUI*
18:53 * perlDreamer hopes that's a positive
18:53 <@tavisto> hehe of course
18:53 <@Haarg> probably would be good to verify that other pages are over 8k
18:54 <@Haarg> you also might try outputting with session->output->print directly
18:56 <@tavisto> perlDreamer, what I can't figure out is why they reused that story on their site in a different location.
18:56 <@tavisto> This was the originally story on Jan 13, 2009: http://internetcommunications.tmcnet.com/topics/enterprise/articles/48555-wheaton-college-happy-with-webgui-library.htm
18:57 <+perlDreamer> maybe they're just recycling content?
18:57 <@tavisto> not sure if you know this, but all WebGUI press gets added to the "WebGUI in the news" section of webgui.org. (under promote) It has a collection of 7-8 stories right now. This is also an area where we can post news stories about WebGUI partners and resellers if their stories get picked up.
18:58 <+perlDreamer> I should have checked that.
18:58 <+perlDreamer> Is there a place for us to submit stories to be added to that list?
18:58 <@tavisto> well this is a new story so I'm glad you showed me. It's factually incorrect at the end though
18:58 <+MrHairgrease> oh crap
18:58 <+MrHairgrease> wget does get the correct result
18:58 <@tavisto> right now it's only setup for Plain Black to add them. (because it aggregates to the main news mailing list)
18:58 <+MrHairgrease> it's just that my firefox doesn't for some reason
18:59 <@Haarg> how are you testing it in firefox?
18:59 <+MrHairgrease> forgot the escape the ? in the url
18:59 <@tavisto> Good point though, I need to add an email address or data form to that page so people can submit news.
18:59 <+MrHairgrease> just by going to the url
18:59 <+MrHairgrease> wait
18:59 < daviddelikat> MrHairgrease: how is your firewall involved here
18:59 < daviddelikat> are you going out then back in?
19:00 <+MrHairgrease> maybe it's the fancyass json colorizer plugin i installled
19:00 <+MrHairgrease> hang on
19:00 <+perlDreamer> tavisto, sounds like a good idea for the new site design. A Partners page with a dataform or something would be very handy
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19:00 <@tavisto> perlDreamer, another thing that has been extremely useful is to setup Google Alerts for the keywords "webgui" and "plain black webgui". It's helped me find lots of obscure stories and blogs about WebGUI.
19:00 <+perlDreamer> tavisto, did you notice the "whataboutwebgui" tag on that usability article?
19:01 <@tavisto> like this blog that just recently compared Alfesco to Joomla to WebGUI. And WebGUI got some nice props
19:01 <@tavisto> http://weis627.blogspot.com/2009/03/content-management-system-showcase.html
19:01 <@tavisto> no I didn't, let me look
19:01 <+MrHairgrease> yup
19:01 <+MrHairgrease> it was the crapass json colorizer plugin
19:02 <+MrHairgrease> it can prolly handle only 8k of json...
19:02 <+MrHairgrease> thanks for the help!
19:03 <@tavisto> perlDreamer, which article are you referring to
19:03 <+perlDreamer> to the slashdot article itself.
19:04 <@tavisto> I dont see anything about WebGUI
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19:07 < SDuensin> Ok, I'm confused. I'm putting groups inside groups. When I place a group inside a group, it also adds "Admins" under that. Why does it do that?
19:07 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin, it's a feature.
19:07 <+perlDreamer> Admins are automatically members of all groups
19:07 < SDuensin> Ah! Ok, so those are the groups that are under the group I'm adding.
19:07 < SDuensin> I get it now! :-)
19:08 <+perlDreamer> tavisto: http://imagebin.ca/view/KMAetx.html
19:09 <+perlDreamer> not sure how to find those tags otherwise...
19:09 <+perlDreamer> unless MrHairgrease was spoofing us
19:10 <+bartjol> well, that's a clear link
19:15 <+MrHairgrease> I also still have the original screen shot w/o all my artwork
19:15 <@tavisto> that's really strange
19:15 <@tavisto> in a good way of course
19:17 <@tavisto> well the drupal and webgui tags are not there now when clicking on the individual story
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19:18 < daviddelikat> how does one assign a template id for a new default template?
19:19 <+perlDreamer> either creatively make one with 22 characters that is a valid GUID (see Session/Id for details)
19:19 <+perlDreamer> or, have WebGUI do it for you, using the api
19:19 * perlDreamer heads to the other office
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19:29 <@tavisto> well that's cool to see a webgui tag on slashdot. I'm just curious how it made it there
19:37 <@preaction> the tagging thing allows other people to tag posts
19:38 <@preaction> it's not there anymore, it got moderated off or something
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19:46 < topsub> the fileimport worked perfect.. whew!! didn't want to import 191 images.. haha
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19:51 < CIA-46> WebGUI: jt * r9716 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Survey.pm: labeling survey as beta
19:52 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, I was able to fix my uploads permissions problems with a fixup script and --util
19:52 <+perlDreamer> WGDev to the rescue!
19:53 <@Haarg> cool
19:53 <@Haarg> i was thinking about what you said about a wgd restart
19:54 <@Haarg> but i haven't come up with a good way to handle it yet
19:54 <@Haarg> i guess if it was limited to only restarts it would make sense
19:54 <+perlDreamer> I think util is really the same thing, with the scripts stuck in the config file
19:56 <+perlDreamer> oh, and there may be a problem with asset import/export and list types
19:56 <@Haarg> the main thing is that restarting is something that may be useful elsewhere
19:56 <@Haarg> there is
19:56 <+perlDreamer> I'm seeing ARRAY (0x.....) as my template parser
19:57 <@Haarg> yeah
19:57 <@Haarg> i saw that, but haven't looked at it in detail yet
19:58 <+perlDreamer> it just needs an array serializer similar to what the form types use, coming in and going out
19:58 <@Haarg> well
19:59 <@Haarg> i think it's a problem with the forms api really
19:59 <@Haarg> at least partly
20:00 <@Haarg> a select box can't have multiple values, so it shouldn't be returning lists
20:00 <+perlDreamer> that is true
20:00 <@Haarg> but for actual list values i'll probably need to do something
20:01 <+perlDreamer> and the template parser is a select list
20:01 <+perlDreamer> which it shouldn't be
20:01 <+perlDreamer> since you can't have more than 1 parser
20:02 <@Haarg> yeah
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20:04 <+perlDreamer> should we fix that in 7.7?
20:04 < topsub> I imported the 191 images on a local install of webgui. created a package and imported the package on another server.. i had to do this because i can ssh to that server. then when i click on the imported package i get a 404. Anyway to debug this without seeing the logs?
20:04 <+perlDreamer> topsub, go to the Admin Console and turn on debug mode
20:04 <+perlDreamer> restrict it to your IP if it's publicly available
20:05 <+perlDreamer> it will give you a stack trace, query log, and the latest error
20:05 < topsub> is that from settings.. don't think i ever used this debug mode before
20:05 <+perlDreamer> yes, it's in settings
20:06 <+perlDreamer> if you can't do ssh to the server, how do you do code installs?
20:07 < topsub> well we had ssh but it has changed and the client dind't update us
20:08 < topsub> so i am trying to do this work without having to ssh to the box
20:11 <@Haarg> perlDreamer, it's a SelectList in the definition, but it's manually drawn using SelectBox
20:11 <+perlDreamer> heh
20:11 <+perlDreamer> that's right. It doesn't inherit getEditForm.
20:12 <+perlDreamer> so changing it should be trivial and harmless
20:12 <@Haarg> yes
20:12 <+perlDreamer> and not cause problems in the future, either
20:12 <@Haarg> wgd edit still needs adjustments for list types though
20:12 <+perlDreamer> yes, but I think as a workaround I can change the YAML in the editor to be a scalar. that may work
20:13 <@Haarg> it will
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20:18 -!- hansw [n=hanswolt@p54804567.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #webgui
20:18 < hansw> hoi
20:18 <+perlDreamer> hi
20:18 < hansw> hmm, sorry, seem to start in Dutch again :-)
20:19 <+perlDreamer> not a problem
20:19 < hansw> Len around?
20:19 <@preaction> Kranendonk? i dunno if he comes around here
20:19 < hansw> just wanted to let him know we are porting his solaris machine to linux -)
20:20 < hansw> yes, kranendonk, he used to visit this channel
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20:21 < hansw> nice to there are more people in here
20:21 <@preaction> indeed
20:27 < SDuensin> I'm beginning to think the macro system was designed to anger me.
20:27 <+perlDreamer> what's happening, SDuensin?
20:28 < SDuensin> I basically need to provide links based on a user's group. Except the content either contains quotes which breaks the macro or the HTML editor mangles it...
20:28 < SDuensin> So I was going to proxy in the content I need to display. Except the asset proxy macro can't be nested.
20:28 < SDuensin> Argh!
20:30 <+perlDreamer> how many groups do you have to work with?
20:30 < SDuensin> Just one. I want to offer a link for a user to create their personal web space if they don't have one, or a link to that space if they do have one.
20:31 < SDuensin> Trying to do it without writing another custom macro.
20:31 <+perlDreamer> ^GroupText(group,label1,label2);
20:31 < SDuensin> OooO! Smart! Thanks!
20:32 <+perlDreamer> that's why they pay me the big bucks
20:32 < SDuensin> :-)
20:33 < SDuensin> If this hack works, I'll be super happy.
20:38 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9717 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Template.pm: parser should be a selectbox, not a selectlist.
20:38 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9718 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Beginnings of an edit form for the Story.
20:43 < SDuensin> RFE for 8: Less hacky macro system!
20:43 <@preaction> yeah... i once thought as you did
20:43 <@preaction> YOU DON'T KNOW THE POWER OF THE DARK SIDE
20:43 < SDuensin> The dark side refuses to create a valid URL.
20:44 <@preaction> yeah, the thing about that, the only really smart macro system is unbearably slow
20:44 <+perlDreamer> paste it, SDuensin, my young WebGUI padawan
20:44 < SDuensin> http://jaeger.pastebin.com/m74b64d97
20:44 < SDuensin> I've tried it with and without quotes.
20:45 <+perlDreamer> yeah, lose the quotes
20:45 <+perlDreamer> they're not needed
20:45 <+perlDreamer> then please paste the output as well
20:46 < SDuensin> If I do that, it mangles the HTML. Lemme get a copy of that.
20:46 <+perlDreamer> I don't think you want ^u; in there
20:46 <+perlDreamer> I think you really want ^/;
20:46 < SDuensin> But ^/; doesn't provide a complete URL.
20:47 <+perlDreamer> it needs a hostname?
20:47 < SDuensin> Needs, no. But I want it.
20:47 <+perlDreamer> the browser will do the right thing without it
20:48 <+perlDreamer> all, would I be a fool for making
20:48 <+perlDreamer> ^FormLabel(hoverhelp,namespace,label,namespace);
20:48 <+perlDreamer> which would make an i18n'ed label for forms with hoverhelp?
20:49 < SDuensin> Ok, here's what I'm trying now: http://jaeger.pastebin.com/d4cf91b01
20:49 <+perlDreamer> and the output?
20:49 < SDuensin> Ugly.
20:50 < SDuensin> The link for not being in the group is: http://test/create);
20:52 < SDuensin> When I return to the editor, it has this: http://jaeger.pastebin.com/d530fc808
20:52 < SDuensin> Fun!
20:53 -!- elnino [n=ninow@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #webgui
20:53 < elnino> hi.
20:53 < SDuensin> Re
20:54 < elnino> lot of people here now.
20:54 < SDuensin> It's a popular place.
20:54 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin: http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1236192657_534/home?op=auth;method=logout
20:54 < SDuensin> perlDreamer - Still enjoying the power of the dark side?
20:54 <+perlDreamer> I just wrote your macro code
20:54 <+perlDreamer> on that demo site
20:54 <+perlDreamer> and it works
20:55 < SDuensin> Dude, the URL contains the closing paren and semicolon of the macro. WTF?
20:55 < elnino> =) Just wondering if there is a way to manually install wre without recompilein it (because I'm lazy). I don't know if I can do anything about unblocking port 60834. If I just untar the wre and webgui files, and bring over my conf files, would that work?
20:56 < SDuensin> should
20:56 <@Haarg> elnino, what i usually do re port 60834 is use ssh port forwarding
20:56 < SDuensin> Can you SSH into your host?
20:56 < SDuensin> Haarg - Great minds think alike. :-)
20:56 < elnino> yes.
20:57 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin, the stupid rich text editor is eating the macro
20:57 <@Haarg> ssh user@host -L60834:localhost:60834
20:58 < SDuensin> ssh -L 60834:127.0.0.1:68034 user@host
20:58 <@Haarg> then you can go to http://localhost:60834/
20:58 < SDuensin> Dang! Haarg beat me!
20:58 < elnino> you guys are funny.
20:58 < SDuensin> perlDreamer - Yes, it is.
20:59 < elnino> this is where I get confuesed. Somebody (non-webgui) walked me thru this long ago.. and I got confused, it worked, but I dont' know how... so while I'm using putty, I can access the site using MY browser at Localhost? or do I replace localhost with the machine name?
21:00 < SDuensin> Your browser @ localhost.
21:00 < elnino> or.. what if ON that machine I just use w3m.. is there a way to do that?
21:01 <@Haarg> wreconsole needs javascript iirc
21:01 < elnino> oh ok. I understand that.. =)
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21:02 < elnino> so putty will do some magic and make "localhost" not localhost. that's pretty cool. I'll try it after I get some sleep. I'm running on fumes.
21:02 <+perlDreamer> It's a bug, SDuensin, please file it, along with the text you're trying to enter.
21:02 < SDuensin> perlDreamer - ok, I can do that.
21:02 < SDuensin> Custom macro time, eh? :-)
21:03 <+perlDreamer> in the meantime, just disable the RTE
21:03 <+perlDreamer> that thing is a piece of crap
21:03 < SDuensin> Eh, yea.
21:03 < SDuensin> Users like it though.
21:04 <+perlDreamer> you could try this as a workaround
21:04 <+perlDreamer> put that code into a snippet
21:04 <+perlDreamer> then assetProxy it in
21:04 <+perlDreamer> that should bypass the RTE
21:04 < SDuensin> The snipped editor isn't rich?
21:04 < SDuensin> Cool.
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21:29 <@plainhao> i ran the bazaar classLoadTester.pl and i'm seeing two assetIds and a negative instanciate time for one of them, anyone know what that means?
21:52 <@preaction> [la
21:52 <@preaction> plainhao: it means that perl's timeing is off, which is a known issue with perl
21:52 * plainhao thanks preaction
22:27 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9719 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): preparing for 7.7.0 dev
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--- Day changed Thu Mar 05 2009
00:08 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin, did the snippet trick work?
00:09 < SDuensin> Yep! Thanks!
00:09 * SDuensin is implementing everything now.
00:10 <+perlDreamer> cool
00:10 < SDuensin> This is gonna be so damn cool.
00:10 < CIA-46> WebGUI: jt * r9720 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (4 files in 3 dirs):
00:10 < CIA-46> WebGUI: - Fixed a bug with Gallery where using the web service (iphone or iPhoto)
00:10 < CIA-46> WebGUI: would cause images and albums to be uploaded as "admin" rather than the
00:10 < CIA-46> WebGUI: user that actually uploaded them.
00:10 < CIA-46> WebGUI: - Labeled Survey 2.0 as beta, per our quality policy.
00:11 < CIA-46> WebGUI: jt * r9721 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/ (Gallery.pm GalleryAlbum.pm): forward porting gallery bug fixes
00:24 <+perlDreamer> rizen: http://imagebin.ca/view/4emPah.html
00:27 <@rizen> what am i looking at?
00:28 <@rizen> oh
00:28 <@rizen> now i know
00:28 <@rizen> holy crap
00:28 <@rizen> you're making good time
00:28 -!- patspam [n=patspam@ppp221-151.static.internode.on.net] has joined #webgui
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00:29 <@rizen> who the hell do you think you are patspam
00:30 <+perlDreamer> well, not too much good time. You can't actually add Stories through the UI yet
00:30 <+perlDreamer> but the API is there
00:30 <+patspam> patrick?
00:31 <@rizen> you think you can just email me and tell me what to do?
00:31 <@rizen> do you think i have an email based api?
00:31 <@rizen> huh?
00:31 <@rizen> huh?
00:31 <@rizen> do ya?
00:31 <+patspam> shhhh don't tell eveyone else!
00:31 * SDuensin chuckles
00:32 <+patspam> JT::Mail->ApproveRFE()
00:33 -!- carogray [n=Caroline@32.178.3.178] has joined #webgui
00:33 < SDuensin> Eh, that always throws an error here.
00:33 <+patspam> while(1) { eval {JT::Mail->ApproveRFE} }
00:34 <@rizen> the beautiful thing about that method is that behind the scenes it calls randomWrath()
00:34 <@rizen> which could make sure nothing happens
00:34 <@rizen> i could segfault
00:35 <@rizen> i might do what you request
00:35 <+patspam> while(1) { eval { srand(42); JT::Mail->ApproveRFE} }
00:35 <@rizen> or i might do something completely other
00:35 <+patspam> i know the secret seed
00:37 <+perlDreamer> lol
00:37 < WebGUI> pat!
00:37 < WebGUI> rizen!
00:38 <+perlDreamer> $rizen->installEmailAPI();
00:38 <+perlDreamer> that's what was missing patspam
00:39 <+patspam> no doubt you've written a test suite for it perlDreamer?
00:39 <+perlDreamer> I only have manual tests for that one
00:40 <+perlDreamer> $rizen has limited bandwidth and you have to be careful not to exceed it
00:40 < WebGUI> rizen, I assume you have read my reaction on the style images, do you have no reaction to my response?
00:40 <@rizen> i have no reaction
00:41 < WebGUI> that is unbelievable
00:41 <@rizen> i really don't care what anybody says there cuz i'm out of it
00:41 < WebGUI> ah
00:41 < WebGUI> :)
00:41 -!- steveo_a1 [n=sno@adsl-76-226-115-162.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #WebGUI
00:41 < WebGUI> out of it?
00:41 -!- steveo_aa [n=sno@adsl-99-130-29-253.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
00:41 < WebGUI> what does that mean, out of it
00:41 <@rizen> the designers will do their best to assimilate the needs that people describe
00:41 <@rizen> and then will implement the site
00:41 < WebGUI> strange
00:41 <@rizen> no more JT input required
00:41 < WebGUI> so first you ask 'the community' to react
00:41 <@rizen> it's a community site
00:42 <@rizen> if the community decides to make stupid decisions
00:42 <@rizen> that's their own problem
00:42 < WebGUI> and then all these reactions go into the melting pot of the designers without rebuttle
00:42 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9722 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Template.pm): fixed: Template parser cannot be set
00:42 < WebGUI> and then they do something with it
00:42 < WebGUI> so the designers get to decide on user interaction design to
00:43 < WebGUI> are the designers going to participate in the discussion you reqested?
00:43 < WebGUI> who are 'the designers'?
00:43 <@rizen> plain black designers
00:43 < WebGUI> the are called?
00:43 <+perlDreamer> steve, meg, tabb, john
00:43 <@rizen> tabitha, mego, steve, john
00:43 < WebGUI> ah
00:44 < WebGUI> are they going to participate in the discussion?
00:44 < WebGUI> and if so, when?
00:44 <@rizen> why would they?
00:44 < WebGUI> they are not
00:44 <@rizen> this is about community feeback
00:44 < WebGUI> ah ok
00:44 <@rizen> feedback
00:44 <@rizen> if they have something to say then i suppose they would
00:44 <@rizen> but they already had the last 1.5 months to discuss what was needed
00:44 < WebGUI> that is clear to me
00:45 <@rizen> and thats how we got to where we are now
00:45 < WebGUI> in that case I am out of it too
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00:45 <@rizen> you mean cuz you've said your piece?
00:45 < WebGUI> no
00:45 <@rizen> you have not said your piece?
00:45 <@rizen> you did reply
00:45 <@rizen> you were the first
00:45 < WebGUI> I mean there is no use in discussing when the people who are going to implement are not participating actively in the discussion
00:45 < WebGUI> of course
00:46 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI: they can listen just fine.
00:46 < WebGUI> I thought you where inviting the community into a discussion
00:46 <@rizen> what is there to discuss exactly?
00:46 -!- WebGUI is now known as SynQ
00:46 <+perlDreamer> No one said anything contradictory
00:46 <+perlDreamer> They may just take all the feedback and build it
00:46 < SynQ> well I have given at least 5 points that I would change
00:46 < SynQ> are all the things I said going to be implemented
00:46 < SynQ> ?
00:46 <@rizen> i suppose if you want me to go out there and say "i like this idea, and i hate that one" i could, but i don't think there's much merit in that...it's just a flame bait
00:47 <@rizen> maybe maybe not
00:47 < SynQ> there is a difference between flaim and discussion
00:47 <@rizen> that's up to the designers to decide
00:47 < SynQ> ok
00:47 < SynQ> if you really want a community
00:47 < SynQ> then the designers should tell the community why they would choose to do or do not implement suggestions
00:48 < SynQ> let me illustrate that with an analogy
00:48 -!- andyiomoon [n=andyiomo@ppp163-26.static.internode.on.net] has joined #webgui
00:48 < SynQ> if the county wants the community to participate in the placement of a statue
00:48 < SynQ> and ask for reactions to a suggestion
00:49 < SynQ> then the community of that county does not feel really heared if all the suggestions are just read somewhere in a boardroom, no reaction is given and then the statue is placed
00:49 < SynQ> the same goes true for the webgui.org style
00:49 < SynQ> if you now say that it's going to be that way
00:49 < SynQ> then there is no use in discussing it
00:50 < SynQ> since in that case I don't feel part of the process
00:50 < SynQ> I will complain after it is implemented
00:50 <@rizen> first of all, you will complain no matter what
00:50 < SynQ> and bitch on the points that I think should have been changed
00:50 <@rizen> you are Koen
00:50 <@rizen> that's what you do
00:50 < SynQ> that is not fair
00:50 <@rizen> second, you are currently trying to goad me into a flame ware
00:50 <@rizen> and i'm trying to avoid one
00:51 <@rizen> which is why i'm not commenting
00:51 < SynQ> o god please don't let me be misunderstood
00:51 < SynQ> now would be the right time from the other people reading this for some support
00:51 <@rizen> if i have something to comment on then i'll comment on it
00:51 < SynQ> ok
00:51 <@rizen> until then there's no reason to do it
00:52 < SynQ> just know that I feel being treated rude now
00:52 <+perlDreamer> SynQ: you just want the designers to give you a summary of what they're going to change, and why? Do you foresee a 2nd round of debate after that?
00:52 <@rizen> and i'm not going to explain my decisions, or ask the designers to explain their decisions as to why or why not someone's feature wasn't implemented.
00:52 <@rizen> it is as it is
00:52 < SynQ> perlDreamer: right
00:52 < SynQ> and yes I foresee a 2nd round of debate after that
00:52 < SynQ> rizen: in my opinion that is not a community
00:53 < SynQ> that is a dictatorial regime
00:53 < SynQ> the community has nothing to say really
00:53 <+perlDreamer> that's probably the problem there. Every round of debate is $$, and slows down the implementation of the new site.
00:53 <@rizen> no, in a dictatorial regime the community would have no input at all
00:53 < SynQ> ok I give up
00:53 < SynQ> I understand you
00:54 < SDuensin> "I'm sorry. Is this the five minute argument, or will this be the whole fifteen minutes?"
00:54 < SynQ> and I don't agree
00:54 < SynQ> SDuensin: it's done allready
00:54 <@rizen> it's ok if you don't agree
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00:54 <@rizen> if you don't like the site after it's built, you still have a voice
00:54 <@rizen> it's called an RFE
00:54 < SynQ> agreed
00:55 < SynQ> I think I have about 5 to 10 RFE's in on the community site allready
00:55 < SDuensin> Bet you can't get your RFE rejected as fast as my JSON one. :-)
00:55 <@rizen> SynQ, RFE's are implemented in the order they are ordered by karma
00:55 < SynQ> I know
00:55 <@rizen> spend your karma and move your RFE's up the list
00:55 < SynQ> I have
00:55 <@rizen> are they at the top?
00:56 < SynQ> my top RFE is in 2nd or 3th position
00:56 < SynQ> for a while now
00:56 <@rizen> if so, they'll be implemented in the next couple of months
00:56 < SynQ> 3th even
00:57 <@rizen> you're not trying to say that we haven't followed through on implementing RFE's are you?
00:57 < SynQ> it has been on that list since october 2007
00:57 <@rizen> cuz we implemented nearly 300 in the past 6 months
00:57 < SynQ> I am not
00:57 < SynQ> and I love you for implementing them :)
00:57 < SynQ> as I said in september 2008: I have patience
00:57 < SynQ> but what I don't understand
00:57 < SynQ> if you ask for imput on the design
00:58 < SynQ> and I put time in to react to that
00:58 < SynQ> isn't it fair I get some response on that reaction?
00:58 <@rizen> only if the idea warrants response
00:58 < SynQ> ok
00:58 <@rizen> which can happen in 1 of 2 cases
00:58 <@rizen> 1) we don't understand what you're asking and need clarification
00:59 <@rizen> 2) we want to propose an alternative
00:59 < SynQ> ok
00:59 <+perlDreamer> it would be nice if the designers would summarize the feedback and say what they were going to change, with why. But only so people know what's going to happen, and not to start a 2nd round of debate.
00:59 <@rizen> why say all that? why not just do it.
00:59 < SynQ> I don't see the harm in extra debate
00:59 <@rizen> action not words
00:59 < SynQ> that is what a community is about, isn't it?
01:00 <+perlDreamer> actions don't always have clear reasons
01:00 <+perlDreamer> not only that, if people want to RFE things that are not implemented, it will help set the karma threshold for those RFEs
01:01 < SynQ> perlDreamer: karma threshold?
01:01 <+perlDreamer> sure. Let's say that someone wants something very difficult, so the designers say that they would do it except for time constraints.
01:01 <+perlDreamer> so the person submits an rfe for it
01:01 <+perlDreamer> then he knows the karma threshold will be high
01:02 < SynQ> indeed
01:02 < SynQ> good point
01:02 <+perlDreamer> I think you _both_ have good points. If PB is spending 4 people for 1.5 months of redesign, that's expensive.
01:02 < SynQ> or if the designers say that they won't do it because they feel it is ugly then the karma threshold would be low, but the community could have a voice in that
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01:03 <+perlDreamer> SynQ, if it was just a template and some graphics, then an RFE with a patch could be quickly implemented.
01:03 < SynQ> indeed
01:04 < SynQ> like less hourglass stuff floating around
01:04 < SynQ> which allready 3 people have talked about
01:04 < SynQ> but no designer has come by and said: you are right it is a bit too much
01:05 < SynQ> nor have they said: it is a crucial part of the design, we want to keep it
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01:09 < SynQ> perlDreamer: don't you think that such feedback is part of a community discussion?
01:09 <+perlDreamer> If I thought that giving the feedback was going to cause another round of discussion, I'd be hesitant to give it.
01:10 <+perlDreamer> Especially if it was costing me time, effort and money.
01:10 < SynQ> isn't that time worth having a community then?
01:11 <@rizen> SynQ: i just don't understand what you're arguing for. i've already said someone would give you feedback if feedback was warranted.
01:11 < SynQ> time, effort and money might also get you a better and more effective design
01:11 <@rizen> you seem to want a project manager
01:12 <@rizen> someone to hold your hand and tell you everything is going to be ok, or that the shit has hit the fan
01:12 < SynQ> rizen: I'm arguing for a response from the people who are going to implement it so the community feels involved
01:12 < SynQ> involvment
01:12 <@rizen> and i don't think you can do that
01:12 < SynQ> that is what I'm arguing for
01:12 < SynQ> why not?
01:13 <@rizen> you want us to spend a bunch of time replying to every bullet point that's brought up
01:13 < SynQ> what is the use in having a community if you don't involve them in your actions/
01:13 < SynQ> no
01:13 <@rizen> then what do you want?
01:13 < SynQ> I want to get a reaction to my response that gives me the feeling that something is going to be done with it
01:13 < SynQ> so that I don't feel that I'm talking to a blank wall
01:13 < SynQ> but instead that I feel involved
01:14 < SynQ> that I am part of the process
01:14 < SynQ> that the time I am putting into it is not in vain
01:14 < SynQ> my time is not free either you know
01:14 <@rizen> so you want one response to each post that's put up saying "yes i saw this"
01:14 < SynQ> are you serious?
01:15 <@rizen> i'm trying to understand what you're asking for
01:16 < SynQ> I want someone who is going to implement the style to react to my post and in a few lines say 'hey, I say what your points are. I think that this and that might be a good Idea, we are going to have to think about that and that. Thanks for your feedback'
01:16 < SynQ> that would make me feel involved
01:16 < SynQ> do you really not understand that right now I cannot feel that?
01:17 < SynQ> you ask for feedback. I give feedback, but I get no reaction to that feedback.
01:18 < SynQ> then how do I know if that feedback is appreciated
01:18 < SynQ> and then when I ask you about it in the IRC channel you say (and I quote): (11:41:10 PM) rizen: i really don't care what anybody says there cuz i'm out of it
01:19 < SynQ> which achieves exactly the opposite of me feeling involved
01:19 < SynQ> I feel disconnected
01:19 < SynQ> and even treated rudely
01:19 < SynQ> you ask for feedback, and then when I give feedback you say you don't care about that
01:20 < SynQ> I think that is rude, don't you?
01:21 <@rizen> see it from my point of view
01:21 <@rizen> the site is not my project
01:21 <@rizen> i've handed it off to the designers to do
01:22 <@rizen> why should i care what your responses are to that project that i'm not a part of?
01:22 < SynQ> you should care since you are the person that asked for feedback on the forums
01:22 <@rizen> i can understand why you might want to hear from somebody that your requests were read and understood
01:23 <@rizen> SynQ: I'm only one guy
01:23 <@rizen> i can't do everything
01:23 < SynQ> and it is rude to ask someone to respond to a proposition and then when they do turn around and walk away
01:23 <@rizen> that's the purpose of having minions
01:23 < SynQ> I know
01:23 < SynQ> you should have had one of your minions ask for feedback then
01:23 <@rizen> so my mistake was that i posted the request in the first place
01:23 < SynQ> I agree
01:23 < SynQ> but the consequense is that you cannot be rude after that
01:23 < SynQ> and walk away
01:24 < SynQ> how can I know that you have handed it over to your minions?
01:24 <@rizen> i should have either not asked for input from the community at all, logged in as one of my minions and posted the request, or just had them post the request
01:24 <@rizen> you asked and i told you
01:24 <@rizen> that's how you know
01:24 < SynQ> for all I know you are taking this up as a pet project because you feel it is very important for WebGUI to have an active and involved community
01:24 <@rizen> but you're being obtuse about the whole thing
01:24 < SynQ> I don't know what obtuse means
01:25 < SynQ> I'm going to look it up, can you bear with me for a moment
01:25 <+perlDreamer> thick headed, stubborn, opinionated, inflexible
01:25 <@rizen> i think it is very important for WebGUI to have an active and involved community, that doesn't mean that i have to be the guy that responds to every email that comes in
01:25 < SynQ> ah
01:25 < SynQ> I don't think I am obtuse
01:25 < SynQ> I just want to be treated as a full person
01:25 < SynQ> in real life as on the webgui forum as on irc
01:25 <@rizen> you are a full person, in what way have i not treated you as such
01:25 <@rizen> you asked a question about when I was going to respond
01:25 <@rizen> and i said i wasn't
01:26 <@rizen> and you were offended
01:26 <@rizen> i haven't called you stupid
01:26 <@rizen> i haven't belittled you in any way
01:26 < SynQ> I was offended by this line: (11:41:10 PM) rizen: i really don't care what anybody says there cuz i'm out of it
01:26 <@rizen> right
01:26 <@rizen> i'm not responding
01:26 <@rizen> so?
01:26 < SynQ> I was offended because you said you really didn't care what I said
01:27 < SynQ> which I thought (I understand better now) was rude since it was you who asked for a response in the first place
01:27 < SynQ> but I think we have it all layed out now
01:27 < SynQ> and I forgive you
01:27 * SynQ hugs rizen
01:28 <@rizen> alright i will watch my phrasing. apparently i shouldn't say "I don't care" i should say "i'm not involved" or "talk to so and so"
01:29 < SynQ> please do me a favour and be more carful to not post a request for reaction on something you are ....
01:29 < SynQ> not going to look at any more yourself
01:29 <@rizen> i still don't see why that matters, but ok
01:29 < SynQ> damn
01:29 < SynQ> then we are not done yet
01:29 < SynQ> you should treat your community with respect
01:30 < SynQ> if you ask for reactions then it is fair that people later ask you 'hey, what did you think about my reaction'
01:30 <@rizen> that's not what you asked
01:30 < SynQ> if you are not going to replay to that people will think you are rude
01:30 < SynQ> that is what I asked: (11:40:21 PM) SynQ: rizen, I assume you have read my reaction on the style images, do you have no reaction to my response?
01:31 < SynQ> that is actually the first thing I asked
01:31 <@rizen> right
01:31 <@rizen> since you're niggling me on words i'll do the same to you
01:31 < SynQ> go ahead
01:31 <@rizen> you asked if i have any reaction
01:31 < SynQ> yes
01:31 <@rizen> not what my reaction is
01:31 <@rizen> two different things
01:32 < SynQ> fair enough
01:32 < SynQ> I have to be clearer in what I ask is what you say
01:32 <@rizen> no you don't
01:32 <@rizen> you just have to understand that i'm not going to lawyer you on words
01:32 < SynQ> is this line: (11:40:21 PM) SynQ: rizen, I assume you have read my reaction on the style images, do you have no reaction to my response?
01:32 <@rizen> and you shouldn't lawyer me on them
01:32 < SynQ> not asking for your reaction?
01:33 < SynQ> can we start over then, right from 11:40 ?
01:33 <@rizen> sure
01:33 < SynQ> rizen, what did you think about my reaction to your request on comments on the new style?
01:33 <@rizen> i cannot respond to that without creating a flame war
01:34 <@rizen> =)
01:34 < SynQ> I haven't read that in the thread yet and I kind of expected
01:34 < SynQ> ok
01:34 < SynQ> I kiss you
01:34 <@rizen> now i have koen cooties
01:34 < SynQ> let me ask you something else
01:35 <@rizen> incidentally both myself and one of the designers have responded to the list
01:35 <@rizen> maybe not directly to your comments
01:35 <@rizen> but we have
01:35 <@rizen> so you know we are reading
01:35 < SynQ> next time you ask for a reaction to anything, do you want just an 'hey that is cool' reaction or do you prefer my in detail response like I did now?
01:35 < SynQ> I'm just trying to help you know
01:36 <@rizen> whether you give a detailed response, or not is not my concern. However, the more detailed your response the more likely you are to affect change.
01:36 < SynQ> I don't even mind if something I suggest is not going to be used
01:36 <@rizen> So if you want to affect change, then give a detailed response.
01:36 < SynQ> I want to help
01:37 <@rizen> Great
01:37 < SynQ> I get the impression that you still have the feeling that I allways want to put things to my hand, get them to be the way I wan't them to be, but that is not true
01:37 < SynQ> I just want to help
01:37 < SynQ> I'm just a boy whose intentions are good, o lord please don't let me be misunderstood
01:38 <@rizen> BTW, since you're lawyering me I should note that nowhere in my statement did it say that I would personally respond to anything, or that anyone else would. Only that we wanted feedback, and we'd do our best to assimilate it.
01:38 < SynQ> ah
01:38 <@rizen> he
01:38 < SynQ> I would like to react to that
01:40 < SynQ> I think that a forum, by it's very name tries to be an analogue of the old greek marketplace where people discuss stuff. In such I think that it is a place for discussion, the term discussionboard also points in that direction. I feel that if someone asks for feedback, it is only respectfull if they then are interested in that feedback. And that they express that respect in engaging in the discussion they asked for themselves.
01:40 * SDuensin thinks we need a sister channel... #WebPooey
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01:40 < SynQ> I'm going to re-read your first post now
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01:41 < SynQ> SDuensin: I think that is unfair and rude too
01:42 < SynQ> rizen: you are right
01:42 < SynQ> you did say you where going to try to assimilate it
01:43 < SynQ> perhaps I should have understood in advance that it was not possible to have a real discussion on it
01:43 < SynQ> but somehow I keep expecting it
01:43 <@rizen> hehe
01:43 < SynQ> I keep believing
01:43 <@rizen> i didn't say that there wouldn't be a real discussion on
01:43 <@rizen> it
01:44 <@rizen> only that i wouldn't be participating in it
01:44 <@rizen> if the designers want to comment they are certainly capable of doing so
01:44 <@rizen> i didn't direct them not to
01:44 < SynQ> with real discussion I mean that the community would be really involved in the descisions on the design
01:44 <@rizen> that's design by committed
01:44 < SynQ> I think you should go even further
01:44 <@rizen> committee
01:44 <@rizen> which doesn't work
01:44 < SynQ> and direct them to do so
01:44 <@rizen> ultimately there has to be a decision maker
01:44 < SynQ> I agree
01:44 <@rizen> and that person is going to be mego
01:44 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9723 /branch/WebGUI_Story/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Story.pm: Make edit story form values sticky, for preview.
01:45 < SynQ> but that doesn't mean that you cannot discuss, go into arguments and discuss about it first
01:45 <@rizen> and i didn't say that there wouldn't be those things
01:45 <@rizen> only that i'm not going to do it
01:45 < SynQ> 90% of the time these discussions are worth quite a deal
01:45 <@rizen> and now i've wasted enough time telling you the same things over and over again
01:45 < SynQ> I love you too
01:46 <@rizen> so i'm going to go home and make dinner
01:46 <@rizen> i love you too koen
01:46 < SynQ> shall I try and compile the WRE tomorrow
01:46 <@rizen> if you like
01:46 <@rizen> i haven't been able to get it to compile even once yet
01:46 <@rizen> but i keep trying
01:46 < SynQ> how is your progress on 64 bit coming along?
01:46 <@rizen> not even trying that
01:46 < SynQ> oh
01:46 <@rizen> i can't get it to compile on 32 bit
01:46 <@rizen> after the changes you made
01:46 < SynQ> where does it get stuck/
01:46 <@rizen> apache
01:46 < SynQ> that's odd
01:46 <@rizen> Undefined symbols:
01:46 <@rizen> "_BIO_set_callback_arg", referenced from:
01:46 <@rizen> _start_connect in ab.o
01:46 <@rizen> "_BIO_get_callback_arg", referenced from:
01:46 <@rizen> _ssl_print_cb in ab.o
01:46 <@rizen> "_SSL_CTX_set_info_callback", referenced from:
01:46 <@rizen> _main in ab.o
01:47 < SynQ> apache compiles just fine with me
01:47 <@rizen> "_BIO_set_callback", referenced from:
01:47 <@rizen> _start_connect in ab.o
01:47 < SynQ> hmm
01:47 <@rizen> it's probably a mac thing
01:47 < SynQ> could be
01:47 < SynQ> but it has to work on mac too
01:47 <@rizen> but it didn't used to happen
01:47 <@rizen> and now it does
01:47 < SynQ> :)
01:47 <@rizen> so i'm trying to work through it
01:47 <@rizen> so far nothing
01:47 < SynQ> bugger
01:47 <@rizen> had some problems with lftp too
01:47 <@rizen> but i fixed those and checked them in
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01:47 < SynQ> I saw you ditched it
01:47 < SynQ> oh now
01:47 <@rizen> didn't ditch it
01:48 < SynQ> indeed you didn't
01:48 <@rizen> i commented out rsync for the time being
01:48 < SynQ> you ditchet some other stuff
01:48 <@rizen> cuz i'm having problems with that too
01:48 <@rizen> yeah stuff we don't need anymore
01:48 <@rizen> like subversion
01:48 < SynQ> rsync is included in all linux and bsd distro's
01:48 <@rizen> yeah, but in many cases it's OLD
01:48 < SynQ> including git sounds like a good idea to me
01:48 <@rizen> i'm trying to include the latest with the wre
01:49 <@rizen> no git
01:49 < SynQ> the debian git is very old
01:49 <@rizen> and probably no rsync either
01:49 <@rizen> need to get this damn thing out the door after all
01:49 < SynQ> have you seen the 'developers' directory I created
01:49 < SynQ> what I would like to do
01:49 <@rizen> yes, but haven't looked at it
01:49 <@rizen> just saw it
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01:50 < SynQ> is create a small set of scripts there that will add stuff to your WRE to turn it into a developer suite too
01:50 < SynQ> like all perl modules needed to run all tests
01:50 < SynQ> if you ask me we don't really need 64bit right now
01:50 < SynQ> but the apache 2.2 we do need I think
01:51 <@rizen> like i said i'm not even looking at 64 bit
01:51 <@rizen> i'm just trying to get it to compile at all at this point
01:51 < SynQ> I know you did
01:51 <@rizen> and that's not happening
01:51 <@rizen> until i get it to compile
01:51 <@rizen> nothing else matters
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01:51 < SynQ> indeed so
01:51 < SynQ> perhaps you should go and cook some dinner
01:52 <@rizen> yup
01:52 < SynQ> catch you later
01:52 < SynQ> good night :)
01:52 <@rizen> continue with my wre frustrations into the night
01:52 <@rizen> later
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02:11 < CIA-46> WebGUI: jt * r9724 /wrebuild/ (build.sh wre/sbin/setenvironment.sh): a couple additional things to try to get wre to compile
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02:39 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9725 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (5 files in 4 dirs):
02:39 < CIA-46> WebGUI: Templates for archive, and edit story.
02:39 < CIA-46> WebGUI: Added switches and URLs for adding stories.
02:39 < CIA-46> WebGUI: Fixed date problems in the date_loop.
02:39 < CIA-46> WebGUI: Fixed an autocommit issue with folders when there's no currently open version tag.
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03:11 < CIA-46> WebGUI: brian * r9726 /branch/crop/lib/WebGUI/Asset/File/Image.pm: checkpoint
03:11 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9727 /branch/WebGUI_Story/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/StoryArchive.pm: override www_add so that it makes or access a folder to hold stories.
03:11 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9728 /branch/WebGUI_Story/docs/upgrades/packages-7.7.0/root_import_storymanager_editstory.wgpkg: Fix a broken label.
03:11 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9729 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (lib/WebGUI/Asset/Story.pm t/Asset/Story.t):
03:11 < CIA-46> WebGUI: Add a getArchive method to the Story. Test it.
03:11 < CIA-46> WebGUI: Make www_edit work.
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03:42 <+patspam> the admin console icons seem to be all GIFs.. should new ones also be GIFs? or is PNG ok?
03:52 <@preaction> i think png is okay
04:46 <+patspam> ok, thanks preaction
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06:49 * patspam welcomes the post-dinner US crowd
06:53 < elnino> thanks patspam!
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10:53 < elnino> anyone awake?
10:53 < ryuu_ro> yup
10:54 < elnino> hi.
10:54 < ryuu_ro> hi there
10:54 < elnino> I have 7.5.24,and am trying to use gallery.
10:54 < elnino> I think there is a bug, would you be able to help?
10:54 < ryuu_ro> not sure, what's the problem?
10:55 < elnino> I'm getting calendar javascripts included on the photo gallery asset. (i'm looking AT the asset, it's not in a pagelayout.
10:55 < elnino> and there is about 50 of those
17:06 <+MrHairgrease> that is: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m36f537b6
17:06 <+MrHairgrease> the problem with this is that for each textarea this is being included
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17:07 <+MrHairgrease> now i discovered a problem with ie 7 that starts reloading the page forever if there are too many of these blobs
17:08 <+MrHairgrease> but only if the user is logged in, but not in admin mode and only on http
17:08 <+MrHairgrease> https doesn''t have this problem
17:08 -!- Lisette [n=liraos@201.232.58.66] has joined #webgui
17:08 <+MrHairgrease> anyway, the blurb should be written only once anyway
17:08 <+MrHairgrease> so, should I consider this a bug?
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17:10 < Lisette> anyone knows why when i try add a payDriver itransact by the console shop, shows me this error: WebGUI::URL::Content::__ANON__[61] - WebGUI::Shop::Pay:60 - You must pass a hashref of options to create a new PayDriver object
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17:13 < Lisette> Lisette: anyone knows why when i try add a payDriver itransact by the console shop, shows me this error: WebGUI::URL::Content::__ANON__[61] - WebGUI::Shop::Pay:60 - You must pass a hashref of options to create a new PayDriver object
17:18 <+perlDreamer> everyone, it appears that henry_ykt has tracked down the ever elusive Shop bug that causes checkout to randomly fail
17:18 <+perlDreamer> http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/9924
17:18 <+perlDreamer> I'm applying his patch, and running tests on it right now
17:19 <+perlDreamer> apparently, using ref, instead of id/refaddr, will work most of the time on a C::IO object.
17:19 <+perlDreamer> but every so often it will fail
17:19 <+perlDreamer> the docs say to use id/refaddr
17:20 <@Haarg> hah
17:20 <@Haarg> yeah, ref is definately wrong there
17:20 <+perlDreamer> we need a Perl::Critic test for using ref in C::IO modules
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17:20 <+perlDreamer> I'm really curious to know the difference between id and refaddr now
17:21 <@Haarg> there is none
17:21 <@Haarg> id is an alias for refaddr
17:21 <+perlDreamer> and I'm going to spend some time going through all the other C::IO modules by hand
17:21 <+perlDreamer> uh, I meant id/refaddr and ref
17:21 <+perlDreamer> my bad
17:21 <@Haarg> ah
17:21 <@Haarg> well, ref on a an object gives the classname
17:21 <@Haarg> refaddr gives the 0x number
17:22 <+perlDreamer> yes, but wouldn't that say it should _never_ work, instead of work intermittently?
17:23 <@Haarg> depends
17:23 <@Haarg> if you were using ref in a number of places
17:23 <@Haarg> it would work if you only had a single object
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17:27 <+perlDreamer> oh, this is just evil
17:27 <+perlDreamer> id is used for a hash lookup
17:27 < Lisette> but.... i try to do this in the 7.6.x version
17:27 < Lisette> what i must do for fix it
17:27 <+perlDreamer> and since id is a classname, it's a valid key
17:27 <@Haarg> yeah
17:28 <+perlDreamer> and it's a valid key until someone else comes along and nukes your address book
17:28 <+perlDreamer> there are two other dead uses of ref in Shop
17:28 <+perlDreamer> they're cleaned up, too
17:32 <+perlDreamer> and all the other Class::IO users look okay too
17:32 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, you're not in the middle of a release, are you?
17:32 <@Haarg> nope
17:32 <+perlDreamer> okay, time for commitment
17:38 <+perlDreamer> all tucked it
17:38 <+perlDreamer> in
17:38 <+perlDreamer> tavis is going to have kittens when he hears about this
17:38 <+perlDreamer> MrHairgrease, Kathy got accepted to the University nursing program yesterday.
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17:39 <+perlDreamer> yo, tavisto!
17:39 <+perlDreamer> How about that Henry Tang guy?
17:39 <@tavisto> woohoo perlDreamer! Just got your email (and realized I wasn't signed into IRC)
17:40 <+perlDreamer> Let's go dump some karma on him!
17:40 <@tavisto> That's great news indeed
17:40 <@tavisto> so you are sure this is the root of the issue?
17:41 <+perlDreamer> that bug will cause random failures anytime someone tries to get an address book
17:41 <@tavisto> ah okay! Well then that definitely was a culprit
17:41 <+perlDreamer> the randomness is probably due to the number of people trying to checkout at the same time
17:42 <+perlDreamer> If two people are at different stages of checkout, the guy who is furthest along will have problems
17:42 <@tavisto> ah okay, so it was only appearing with multiple people
17:42 <@tavisto> that would make it random
17:42 <+perlDreamer> yes
17:42 <+perlDreamer> and nigh on impossible for a dev to duplicate
17:42 <+perlDreamer> since there's only one of us using a box at a time
17:42 <@tavisto> wow, that's amazing he found it
17:43 <+perlDreamer> it would only happen on a live site
17:43 <+perlDreamer> yeah, I don't know whether to be happy that he found it, or to feel stupid that I looked at it so many times without seeing it
17:43 < LTR_bob> perlDreamer: what about Henry?
17:43 <+perlDreamer> He found and fixed a very long standing Shop bug
17:44 < LTR_bob> ok, he has been doing a lot of shop work lately, nice to see some of it find its way back to the Core
17:44 <+perlDreamer> tavisto, how long has this bug been around?
17:44 <+perlDreamer> like almost a year or so?
17:45 <+perlDreamer> LTR_bob, you did used to be known as AMH_bob, right?
17:45 <@tavisto> basically, since shop was released so that's probably about right
17:46 < LTR_bob> Yep, but I am technically not working for the hosting company (Alphamega Hosting), but for the programming company (Long Term Results), so they asked me to use the actual company name.
17:47 <@tavisto> is LTR using WebGUI as well?
17:48 < LTR_bob> LTR is making Swiftysite (on top of WebGUI), AMH offers hosting with a Swiftysite
17:48 <@tavisto> oh okay, I see the relationship now.
17:48 < LTR_bob> and all the custom work for clients is being done by LTR as well
17:48 <@tavisto> Bob, do you think that AMH/LTR is at a point where they would like to do a success story about WebGUI? I know I spoke to you about this about a year ago or so.
17:49 < LTR_bob> Yep, I think it is about that time, I'll talk to Robert Heessels about it in the next couple of days!
17:50 <@tavisto> You don't necessarily have to be done with all your WebGUI plans to do a success story. If you've accomplished some good things thus far then they can be used and you can mention what things you are working on. It's actually a great way to get exposure for your organization as well. :) (for accomplishments and upcoming releases)
17:50 <@tavisto> Great, we have access to a PR firm that can do a simple interview with you and they do all of the work in terms of writing it up and sending it to you for approval.
17:51 < LTR_bob> Cool, I'll pass that on to Robert and get back to you.
17:51 <@tavisto> Great, sounds good Bob!
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18:02 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9808 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
18:02 < CIA-46> WebGUI: Fix bad object lookups in the Shop. These caused random failures
18:02 < CIA-46> WebGUI: in the Shop when trying to get an AddressBook, which interfered with
18:02 < CIA-46> WebGUI: checkout.
18:02 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9809 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
18:02 < CIA-46> WebGUI: Forward porting bug fix for random checkout problems in the Shop
18:02 < CIA-46> WebGUI: related to Class::InsideOut and using ref instead of refaddr/id.
18:03 <+perlDreamer> and there it is, fully reproducible in a test
18:03 <+perlDreamer> I never, never ever thought of multi-user testing for the Shop
18:04 <@tavisto> wow, that easy ehe
18:05 <@tavisto> perlDreamer, we're going to be in your (large) neck of the woods in april
18:07 <+perlDreamer> where at, tavisto?
18:07 <@tavisto> San Francisco, just a short 9 hours away from you down I-5
18:08 <@tavisto> We're exhibiting at ad:tech 2009
18:08 <+perlDreamer> awesome!
18:08 <+perlDreamer> you going to swing up for some brazilian BBQ and mad MonkeyBall playing?
18:08 <@Haarg> that's probably a fix that should go in 7.5 as well for if there's future community releases
18:08 <+perlDreamer> I'll backport it now, Haarg
18:09 <+perlDreamer> How should I annotate it in the changelog?
18:09 <@tavisto> hehe probably not this time around pD
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18:10 <@tavisto> perlDreamer, now that you are an official WebGUI consultant/implementer, you should have a success story out on pb.com
18:10 <+perlDreamer> is /me a success?
18:11 <@tavisto> With you being someone who works with WebGUI for a living, you describe 3 things
18:12 <@tavisto> #1 - Talk about your business and what you do, #2 - Talk about what you require in a CMS in order to be successful, #3 - Talk about why you selected WebGUI and the benefits of using it
18:15 <+MrHairgrease> tavisto, now you're talking about success stiries
18:15 <+perlDreamer> tavisto, speaking of success, Kathy got into the OHSU midwife/nursing program
18:15 <+MrHairgrease> when are you going to do something with the success story thingy we sent you a gazillion years ago =)
18:16 <@tavisto> Mrhairgrease, it's on the site in the affiliates section
18:17 <@tavisto> problem being, that section isn't going live until we get a few more business success stories.
18:17 <+MrHairgrease> ok where's that?
18:17 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, need to think out load with another developer.
18:17 <+MrHairgrease> oh i see
18:17 <+perlDreamer> well, hang on, let me check that test
18:17 <@tavisto> I can move you over to the business section if you'd like :)
18:17 <+MrHairgrease> sure why not
18:17 <+MrHairgrease> i mean
18:17 <+MrHairgrease> if procolix's allowed there =)
18:17 <@tavisto> Problem was that we were going to clear out all the resellers from the "business category" and give you your own "affiliates" section
18:18 <+MrHairgrease> ok, that's fine too
18:18 <@Haarg> perlDreamer, what's up?
18:18 <+MrHairgrease> I just wondered what happened to it
18:18 <@tavisto> but if we do that, we won't have many businesses right now. You wouldn't believe how much work it takes to get a simple success story... and many have been delayed. I'll move you over for the time being
18:18 <+perlDreamer> with the fix for getAddressBook, if the same user logs in twice, they get two address books
18:18 <+perlDreamer> one for each unique cart object pointing to the same cart
18:18 <+perlDreamer> this is because the cached AddressBook is indexed by object id, instead of cartId
18:18 <@tavisto> Actually, I threw it into the fireplace and peed on your success story
18:19 * perlDreamer hates it when tavisto pees in the fireplace
18:19 <+perlDreamer> again
18:21 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, is there a command line interface to gist?
18:21 <+perlDreamer> I can paste my test so you can see if it can really happen
18:21 <@Haarg> http://search.cpan.org/~sartak/App-Nopaste-0.10/
18:21 <@Haarg> works with gist, pastebin, etc
18:22 <+perlDreamer> checking yum, then installing
18:22 <+perlDreamer> if that's so, that needs to go into the WRE dev package
18:22 <+perlDreamer> it's hard to paste big chunks
18:23 <@Haarg> it has lots of prereqs
18:23 <@Haarg> specifically moose
18:23 <+perlDreamer> oh
18:25 <+perlDreamer> well, while that is installing, time for breakfast
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18:39 <+MrHairgrease> perlDreamer, just spent 6 hours on trackiong down a bug that caused IE7 to keep reloading a page many many times (but sometimes only a few), and then only when a user's logged in, but not in admin mode and not on https.
18:39 <+perlDreamer> Haarg: http://gist.github.com/78155
18:39 <+MrHairgrease> to make matters worse, not every IE7 does it
18:39 <+perlDreamer> MrHairgrease, why should it take 6 hours? It only takes 15 minutes to load FF ;)
18:39 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, tests down toward the bottom, around $cart2, $cart3
18:40 <+MrHairgrease> in the end it turns out that IE7 not always likes the js blurbs being output for every textarea
18:40 < Lisette> why shows me this error when i try select the payment method in my cart WebGUI::URL::Content::__ANON__[65] - Can't call method "isa" on an undefined value at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Shop/PayDriver.pm line 619.
18:41 <+MrHairgrease> of course the fix is only two lines of perl
18:41 <+MrHairgrease> so that the js is being output only once as it should be...
18:41 <+MrHairgrease> gonna fix that tomorrow
18:41 <+MrHairgrease> but now..
18:41 <+MrHairgrease> time for a beer!
18:41 < Lisette> MrHairgrease you response me?
18:42 <+MrHairgrease> no
18:42 < Lisette> ok
18:42 <+MrHairgrease> i dunno what's wrong in you r case
18:42 <+MrHairgrease> if you just ask 'why do i get this or that error message', you're likely to rceive little help
18:42 <+MrHairgrease> since you omit all kinds of details
18:43 <+MrHairgrease> like what version do you use
18:43 <+MrHairgrease> etc
18:43 < Lisette> in the payDriver.pm in the line 619 there is http://webgui.pastebin.com/d15ea71e4
18:44 <+MrHairgrease> well in that case a transaction should be passed, but isn't
18:44 <+MrHairgrease> again you didn't mention your wg version
18:44 <+MrHairgrease> anyway
18:44 <+MrHairgrease> i'm going out
18:44 <+MrHairgrease> I've been solving eough problems for today =)
18:44 < deafferret> that's possible? :)
18:45 <+MrHairgrease> sure is
18:45 <+MrHairgrease> bye
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18:46 < Lisette> why do i get this error message Can't call method "isa" on an undefined value at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Shop/PayDriver.pm line 619 in the version 7.6.15 when i try select a payment method?
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19:07 <+perlDreamer> Lisette, that is a bug. Please post it to the bug board.
19:07 <+perlDreamer> The documentation for that method says that $object can be undef, but the code does not allow it.
19:07 <+perlDreamer> either the code, or the docs, need to be fixed
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19:36 <+cap10morgan> can you change a user's password via the API?
19:37 <+cap10morgan> (WebGUI auth method)
19:37 <+perlDreamer> I think so
19:37 <+cap10morgan> maybe with WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI::updateAccount() ?
19:38 <+perlDreamer> $auth->saveParams()
19:38 <+perlDreamer> that's what userImport uses
19:38 <+perlDreamer> updateAccount is specific to the WebGUI plugin
19:38 <+perlDreamer> it also calls saveParams
19:39 <+cap10morgan> ok
19:39 <+cap10morgan> thanks perlDreamer
19:39 <+perlDreamer> you're welcome :)
19:39 * perlDreamer goes to the gym
19:39 <+perlDreamer> and gives deafferret a giftcard to McDonalds for all you can eat double cheeseburgers
19:44 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9810 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Account.pm: Add POD for the Account's store method.
19:53 * deafferret eats the giftcard
19:53 * deafferret realizes his mistake
19:53 * deafferret burps
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20:48 <+perlmonkey2> anyone know the git command to update wgd on the top of their head?
20:49 <@Haarg> git pull
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20:49 <@Haarg> you have local modifications, or you just want to update it?
20:50 <+perlmonkey2> just want to update it
20:50 <@Haarg> git pull should work then
20:50 <+perlmonkey2> okay, thanks Haarg
21:03 <+perlmonkey2> ah, where is wgd getting its list of conf files. It keeps dieing on a conf file that no longer exists.
21:08 <@Haarg> what is the actual error?
21:08 <+perlmonkey2> Backing up current database... Cannot read config file: /data/WebGUI/etc//data/WebGUI/etc/www.test.com.conf at ./wgd line 131
21:09 <+perlmonkey2> ./wgd reset -b
21:09 <+perlmonkey2> I couldn't track down where it was grabbing that conf file.
21:09 <@Haarg> to find config files it checks: -F parameter, WEBGUI_CONFIG env variable, guess based on webgui root
21:09 <+perlmonkey2> yeah, I ended up just using the -F but I wanted to see how it possibly even knew about that conf.
21:10 <@Haarg> is that env variable set?
21:10 <+perlmonkey2> crap, yes, and I have no idea hwo. I must have added it to a shell file.
21:10 <+perlmonkey2> Haarg: thanks
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21:29 < juan> perlDreamer, remember the errors that i had upgrading from 7.5 to 7.6
21:30 < juan> i was in 7.5.34
21:30 <+perlmonkey2> Anyone know of any YUI editors that are on pages which get reused a lot?
21:30 <+perlmonkey2> They appear to have a memory leak.
21:30 < juan> we checked the tables Folder and assetHistory
21:30 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2: talk to patspam, he's been talking with the developer of the YUI editor about that
21:30 < juan> now i am in 7.5.40 and the upgrade was sucessful
21:30 < slickware> what happened to the head/body separate areas for templates, in the new version
21:31 <+perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: yeah, there doesn't appear to be a work around. I'm fixing one instance, but wondered if there were any others that needed the same solution.
21:31 <+perlmonkey2> well, the workaround is to cache the editor.
21:32 < juan> i checked the tables again and they are ok
21:32 <+perlDreamer> slickware, they went away. head stuff goes into the extraHeadTags section
21:32 < juan> now, i don't know how to upgrade from 7.5.40 to 7.6?
21:33 < juan> the errors continues
21:34 <+perlmonkey2> The solution I found was to create a simpleditor, but .setXY to place it off screen. Then when it was needed, setXY over the actual text area, while grabbing the textarea's contents, then saving them to the textarea on submit.
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21:35 <+perlmonkey2> That sound crazy, or decent?
21:35 < slickware> thanks PD
21:35 <+perlDreamer> slickware, check the gotchas.txt file for more details
21:35 < slickware> is there still a statistics module? or is the only thing in the statistics area the version number? (I remember v5x used to have legit stats)
21:36 < slickware> haha I don't care about the details, I just wanted to know if it was gone or if I was crazy :)
21:38 <+perlDreamer> the statistics module shows version, number of users, groups, templates, etc.
21:38 < slickware> so no actual visitation stats... should I just google-anal it?
21:38 < slickware> anyl
21:38 < slickware> whoops
21:40 <+perlDreamer> slickware: like log analysis? if you use the WRE, it comes with awstats
21:40 < slickware> i'm on the PB-host
21:40 < slickware> how do I access awstats?
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21:41 <@preaction> slickware: go to http://plainblack.com/automat <- it should have the link to your stats
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21:43 <+perlDreamer> juan, what does the assetHistory table look like in 7.5.40?
21:43 <+perlDreamer> can you do a describe on it, and paste the result?
21:46 < juan> give a minute please
21:47 <+perlDreamer> no rush :)
21:47 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9811 /WebGUI/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt: note inbox email fix on changelog
21:47 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9812 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Macro/NewMail.pm): fixed: New Mail macro never returns any messages
21:48 < juan> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m5b2b39fa
21:48 < slickware> thanks preaction. it doesn't look like links to stats are password protected though
21:48 < slickware> unusual
21:48 <@preaction> slickware: ask pb support, i'm sure they can set up some http basic auth for you
21:49 < slickware> preaction: will definitely do that if the customer complains :)
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21:49 <@preaction> slickware: iirc they might even be able to link it to a webgui account, but you'll have to make sure
21:49 < juan> the table is ok for the version
21:50 <+perlDreamer> that looks fine, juan, which is good
21:50 <+perlDreamer> which 7.6 version are you trying to upgrade to?
21:50 < juan> 7.6.11
21:51 <+perlDreamer> do you have a log of the last upgrade you tried where it went bad?
21:52 <+perlDreamer> you know, perl upgrade.pl --doit 2>&1 | tee upgradeLog
21:52 <+perlDreamer> or whatever it should be in bash
21:52 <+perlDreamer> with correct syntax
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21:52 < juan> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m5fec9cb7
21:53 <+perlDreamer> is there more that you can paste? I'd like to see exactly where in the process it is failing
21:55 <+perlDreamer> ideally, the whole thing would be good
21:55 <+perlDreamer> the subroutine is only in there once
21:55 <+perlDreamer> and it's only called once
21:56 < juan> ok
21:56 <+perlDreamer> sorry, just thinking out loud
21:56 <+perlDreamer> also, please do ls /data/WebGUI/docs/upgrades, and paste that as well
21:56 * perlDreamer is starting to think there's more files in there than necessary
21:57 <+perlDreamer> which _is_ something that Haarg mentioned earlier
21:57 < juan> i am going to upgrade again to paste all the respective logs
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22:10 <+perlDreamer> preaction: my new desk gets here in 1 week.
22:10 <@preaction> sweet
22:10 <+perlDreamer> I need you to email Kathy and tell her how important a good desk chair is
22:10 <+perlDreamer> s/need/would like/
22:12 <@preaction> heh, don't take my word for it, have her sit on one of your kitchen chairs for 8 hours and see how she feels afterwards ;)
22:12 <+perlDreamer> she was suggesting the $90 chair at CostCo, and I was looking at the $180 chair.
22:12 <@preaction> heh
22:12 <+perlDreamer> We're going chair shopping at Office Depot later this week
22:13 <@preaction> i got a nice one on-sale at office depot for $130
22:13 <@preaction> lumbar support and comfortable bottom are the two biggies
22:14 <@Haarg> hopefully at home i'll be switching to at&t uverse instead of charter. currently paying $60 for 5m/512k. with at&t i could get 18M/1.5M for $65.
22:14 <@preaction> ... Fiber?
22:14 <@Haarg> yeah
22:15 <@preaction> ... lucky jerk
22:15 <+perlDreamer> 18M?
22:15 <+perlDreamer> wow
22:15 <@Haarg> indeed
22:15 <+perlDreamer> my Verizon FIOS is 8/3
22:15 <@Haarg> i think i went for the 10M one
22:16 <@preaction> ...
22:16 <+perlDreamer> preaction, the chair from CostCo was ACA certified, leather, etc.
22:16 * preaction sulks with his 1m/384k
22:16 <@Haarg> i'm more interested in the upload though really. 5 or 6 down is plenty really
22:17 <+perlDreamer> preaction, just set up a cantenna and I'm sure Haarg would bridge you in
22:17 <@preaction> 150 miles away wouldn't work :(
22:17 <@Haarg> just need to get one of those really long cat6 cables.
22:17 <@preaction> i have another idea, but it requires commercial real estate
22:17 <@preaction> a T1 wire, and some high-quality wireless hardware
22:17 <+perlDreamer> our frequency of wiki spam is increasing
22:18 <@preaction> how are Visitors posting to the wiki anyway?
22:18 <+perlDreamer> today I've deleted two, and there will be another one tonight
22:18 <+perlDreamer> It allows registered users to edit pages
22:18 <@preaction> wait, pb has an office now. i wonder...
22:18 <@preaction> Haarg: how is the commercial wifi in Madison?
22:19 <@Haarg> i'm not really sure
22:19 <@Haarg> we don't have a hard line here
22:19 <@Haarg> we're getting wiki from another business in the same building
22:19 <@Haarg> the phone company seemed unable to install a phone line
22:19 <@preaction> uh... that sounds... weird
22:20 <+perlDreamer> depends on the building
22:20 <+perlDreamer> I've worked some guys who do commercial installations
22:20 <+perlDreamer> some of those old buildings, it's almost impossible to pull wire from point to point without major drilling
22:21 <@Haarg> the wires are already in place
22:21 <+perlDreamer> weird
22:22 <@Haarg> yes
22:24 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, there's no NewMail macro test?
22:25 <+perlDreamer> nope
22:25 <+perlDreamer> grrr
22:25 <+perlDreamer> that's a nice, small after hours project to take on
22:25 <+perlDreamer> and there's already some Inbox tests to leverage for seeding the test
22:29 < juan> perlDreamer, can i upgrade from 7.5.40 to 7.6.15?
22:29 <+perlDreamer> yes
22:30 < juan> ok
22:30 <+perlDreamer> it's only required that you start from 7.5.40
22:33 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, did you have a chance to look at that test failure?
22:33 <+perlDreamer> I'd hate to fix one bug just to add another
22:33 <@Haarg> i started to but had some other things come up
22:35 <@Haarg> ok
22:36 <@Haarg> so it's only a problem if the data hasn't been written out to the database before you init your second cart right?
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22:36 <@Haarg> because we have that issue in numerous places in webgui really
22:37 <+perlDreamer> this is the problem I see
22:38 <+perlDreamer> you open a second tab to the cart screen.
22:38 <+perlDreamer> this gets you an exact copy of the cart, with the same sessionId, but you get a different addressBook
22:39 <+perlDreamer> since it's keyed by object id, not sessionId or cartId
22:39 <+perlDreamer> which persist from page to page
22:39 <@Haarg> you are getting a different object
22:39 <+perlDreamer> yes
22:39 <@Haarg> but the object only lasts for a single page view right?
22:39 <+perlDreamer> yes
22:40 <@Haarg> so unless we started two sessions in the same process i don't see how it could be a problem
22:41 <+perlDreamer> I see.
22:42 <+perlDreamer> The problem is in the tests, I didn't assign an address book to the session
22:42 <+perlDreamer> so of course it built a new one
22:42 <+perlDreamer> if it had been made, then then a 2nd session opened, it would return the same one again
22:42 <+perlDreamer> okay, I'll fix that test, then commit the new test for the bug fixed this morning
22:43 <@Haarg> lots of test failures atm :/
22:44 <+perlDreamer> in 7.7?
22:44 <@Haarg> yeah
22:44 <+perlDreamer> what have I broken now?
22:44 <@Haarg> i don't think it's anything you've touched
22:45 <+perlDreamer> that's good for a change
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22:52 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, can I help by looking into the i18n/help test?
22:52 <@Haarg> sure
22:55 <+perlDreamer> the i18n for the Survey got clobbered during a merge, I think
22:57 <+perlDreamer> that's fixed
22:58 <+perlDreamer> can I look at another one?
22:58 <+perlDreamer> User, or Workflow?
22:58 <@Haarg> those should be fixed
22:58 <+perlDreamer> PodChecker, or SurveyJSON?
22:59 <@Haarg> podchecker is survey stuff
22:59 <+perlDreamer> how about i18n/template.t ?
22:59 <@Haarg> and it almost looks like one of modules is missing methods
22:59 <@Haarg> that one is fixed
23:00 <@Haarg> is t/Asset/Wobject/Survey/ResponseJSON.t working for you?
23:00 <+perlDreamer> no
23:00 <@Haarg> ok
23:00 <+perlDreamer> I'll have a gander at it
23:03 <+perlDreamer> it's a bad test
23:03 <+perlDreamer> it's testing random ordering of elements
23:03 <+perlDreamer> and tries to set the seed to a known value to get predictable results
23:07 <+perlDreamer> maybe List::Util shuffle doesn't call rand...
23:07 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, which perl are you using?
23:08 <@Haarg> i tried 5.10 and wre
23:08 <@Haarg> it does seem to be giving the same results each time
23:08 <+perlDreamer> right, but they're different from the expected ones
23:09 <+perlDreamer> I wonder if we can automate that somehow...
23:09 <+perlDreamer> Or do you have something more pressing that I should look at?
23:12 <@Haarg> not really
23:13 <+perlDreamer> if this works, we'll be able to use it elsewhere, too
23:17 <+perlDreamer> fixed
23:18 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9813 /WebGUI/t/User.t: fix User test for visitor private messaging change
23:18 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9814 /WebGUI/t/Workflow.t: fix Workflow test, we now have 11 workflows by default
23:18 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9815 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/packages-7.7.0/matrix-default-screenshots.wgpkg: fix hardcoded extras urls
23:18 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9816 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/packages-7.7.0/root_import_survey_default-answer-edit.wgpkg: fix i18n labels in survey answer edit
23:18 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9817 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Survey.pm: Restoring i18n that was lost for the Survey.
23:18 <+perlDreamer> anything else?
23:19 <@Haarg> well, i'm thinking the rest might have to wait for perlmonkey2 or patspam
23:20 <+perlDreamer> more survey problems?
23:22 <@Haarg> podchecker and critic_labels were failing on survey stuff
23:22 <@Haarg> i'm running through them all again
23:23 <+perlDreamer> I just fixed and committed the new Cart tests
23:24 <+perlDreamer> aside from critic_labels, which runs so long, are there other tests that should be excluded from a regular run?
23:24 <@Haarg> probably not
23:24 <@Haarg> everything else runs reasonably fast
23:24 < juan> i have the next error trying to upload a zip in the image gallery
23:24 < juan> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m39cd9956
23:25 <@Haarg> this was through the site and not as part of the upgrade right?
23:26 < juan> yes, in the site
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23:27 <@Haarg> possibly something during an upgrade left an uploads directory with the wrong permissions
23:28 <@Haarg> you should be able to fix it by chown -R webgui /data/domains/dreams15.com/www/public/uploads
23:28 <@Haarg> or whatever user apache runs as
23:30 < juan> ok
23:30 < juan> i am going to change it
23:34 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, one PodChecker failure is a pure typo
23:35 <+perlDreamer> the other is a missing convenience method
23:35 <@Haarg> not quite missing
23:35 <+perlDreamer> juan, did the last upgrade work okay?
23:35 <@Haarg> just a singular vs plural issue
23:35 <+perlDreamer> aIndex vs aIndexes, could be
23:36 <+perlDreamer> there are corresponding sIndex and qIndex methods
23:36 <+perlDreamer> so it does make you wonder what happened to aIndex
23:38 <+perlDreamer> after reading the POD, I think we could safely change aIndex to aIndexes
23:38 <+perlDreamer> since the last element of the address is not a scalar, but another array reference
23:38 <+perlDreamer> so even if it was a single answer, the ref would be [0,2,[5]]
23:39 <@Haarg> the address key is made with a single aIndex though
23:39 < juan> perlDreamer, i was in a meeting, so I have not had time to do
23:42 <@Haarg> perlDreamer, did you take a look at patspam's WGDev commands?
23:42 <+perlDreamer> no
23:42 * perlDreamer spent yesterday doing sheet rock work, and I'm behind in email
23:42 <@Haarg> ah
23:42 <@Haarg> sounds like fun
23:43 <+perlDreamer> if I finish the garage, I get a inside room for an office
23:46 <+perlDreamer> patspam is usually on soon.
23:46 <@Haarg> yeah
23:46 <+perlDreamer> in other late breaking news, John made icons for the Asset history browser.
23:46 <@Haarg> critic_labels is failing on PassiveAnalytics stuff
23:46 <+perlDreamer> hm
23:46 <+perlDreamer> which ones?
23:46 <+perlDreamer> which files?
23:47 <+perlDreamer> I have a 1-file critic_label test for quick debugging
23:47 <@Haarg> http://gist.github.com/78306
23:48 <@Haarg> http://gist.github.com/78307
23:50 <@Haarg> http://gist.github.com/78309
23:52 <+perlDreamer> 306 is fixed
23:56 <@Haarg> fixed 307
23:56 <+perlDreamer> you're fast
23:58 <+perlDreamer> 309 is fixed
23:59 <+perlDreamer> I wrote the Passive Analytics code for patspam
--- Day changed Fri Mar 13 2009
00:00 <+perlDreamer> might have to give him a refund for broken i18n...
00:02 <@Haarg> i'm still puzzled why the person who made the code editor would have put in syntax highlighting for brainfuck
00:02 <+perlDreamer> better that than lolcat
00:02 <+perlDreamer> self canHaz mouseee
00:06 <+perlDreamer> one more fix coming in
00:13 < perlmonkey21> can someone use the survey editor on [head] and tell me what the text editor has for the toolbar and buttons? I mean the text editor for the section/question/answer text. Mine is all jacked up with a fix and it would be a huge pain to back it all out to look at it myself.
00:13 <+perlDreamer> sure, give me a sec
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00:13 <+perlDreamer> in the meantime, can you backlog and see about the POD problems in Survey/ResponseJSON.
00:13 <+perlDreamer> maybe patspam, too
00:13 <+perlDreamer> it links to aIndex
00:14 <+perlDreamer> but there's no aIndex method
00:14 <+perlDreamer> only aIndexes
00:14 < perlmonkey21> I'll look at it.
00:14 <+perlDreamer> which is Australian for aIndeces :)
00:14 <@Haarg> i changed it
00:14 <@Haarg> to link to aIndexes but say aIndex
00:14 <+perlDreamer> whoops, never mind then
00:14 <@Haarg> which seems right to me, but you might want to check on it anyway
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00:16 <@Haarg> i really hate byte order markers
00:16 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey21: 1 toolbar with 12 buttons
00:16 <+perlDreamer> Font, font size, bold, italics, underline, strikethrough, bullet list, ordered list, insert link and insert image
00:17 < perlmonkey21> perlDreamer: okay.....that's what I thought, but the buttons and bar are HUGE. Not sure why.
00:17 * perlDreamer blames JS and CSS
00:17 < perlmonkey21> was hoping there were no buttons at all so it could just be turned off.
00:19 < perlmonkey21> crap, my solution won't work anyways. The survey object edit div is draggable, but if I just jump a hidden off screen editor over the textarea, then a user drags the edit div, the yui editor will stay where it was.
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00:25 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9818 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Wobject/Survey/ResponseJSON.t: Handle different random sort orders on different machines.
00:25 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9819 /WebGUI/t/Shop/Cart.t: Add a few multi-user Cart/session/addressBook tests.
00:25 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9820 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey/ResponseJSON.pm: fixing pod
00:25 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9821 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/PassiveAnalytics.pm: Add missing i18n labels.
00:25 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9822 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/ExpireIncompleteSurveyResponses.pm: fix i18n usage
00:25 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9823 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/PassiveAnalytics.pm: Add missing i18n for Passive Analytic Bucket workflow.
00:26 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9824 /WebGUI/ (6 files in 6 dirs):
00:26 < CIA-46> WebGUI: Add icons for the Asset History browser. Change the
00:26 < CIA-46> WebGUI: default WebGUI conf, upgrade script, and content handler
00:26 < CIA-46> WebGUI: to use them.
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00:40 < perlmonkey21> In the survey editor for answers, there is something called an "answer title". This was originally supposed to be the recorded answer so that the user shown answer didn't have to be mapped. IE Yes/No would have a recorded answer of 1/0 or some such. But since this value can also be shown inside of multiple choice buttons, it looks like the title was changed. Anyone want to weigh in on what it should be called? Me, I didn't see wha
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00:48 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey21: you got clipped at 255 characters
01:01 <+patspam> perlmonkey21: word
01:03 <+patspam> I changed the UI label from "Recorded Answer" to "Answer Title" because I thought it was more intuitive
01:04 <+patspam> I kept getting confused between "Recorded Answer" and "Answer Value"
01:05 <+patspam> my rationale is that they're both "Recorded", it's up to what report you choose as to what you get in your data export mapping
01:07 <+patspam> and since as you say "Recorded Answer" can be shown inside multiple choice buttons, I thought "Title" was a better name
01:08 <+patspam> that was before we had hover help though, so feel free to change and explain it in the tooltip
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01:24 <@Haarg> tracked down another character encoding issue with syndicated content
01:24 <@Haarg> bug in a prereq
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01:49 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9825 /WebGUI/www/extras/editarea/ (4 files in 2 dirs): remove brainfuck from code editor
01:49 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9826 /WebGUI/t/Session/ErrorHandler.t: silence warning in errorhandler test
01:54 <+patspam> Haarg: don't seem to be able to specify a config file in current version
01:54 <+patspam> site config that is
01:54 <@Haarg> wgdev?
01:54 <+patspam> only works for me if i have a single config file which it defaults to
01:54 <+patspam> yeah
01:54 <+patspam> otherwise, always says Unable to find config file
01:54 <@Haarg> hm
01:54 <+patspam> guess_webgui_paths looks like the culprit
01:54 <@Haarg> i haven't used -F in a while
01:55 <@Haarg> but having the WEBGUI_CONFIG env var set seems to work fine for me
01:55 <@Haarg> but then i only have one config...
01:55 <+patspam> yeah, as soon as I have multiple configs the breakage sets in
01:57 <@Haarg> i do see the same problem here
01:58 <@Haarg> using -F works though
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02:04 <+patspam> how are you using -F? still doesn't work for me
02:04 <+patspam> WEBGUI_ROOT=/data/WebGUI wgd db -F dev.localhost.localdomain.conf
02:04 <+patspam> --> Unable to find WebGUI config file!
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02:15 <@Haaarg> well i feel rather silly now
02:16 <@Haaarg> somehow i didn't realize return exited evals
02:17 < deafferret> did you expect return; to be ignored?
02:17 <@Haaarg> i expected it to return from the sub
02:17 <@Haaarg> not the eval
02:17 < deafferret> oh, a sun inside the eval?
02:18 < deafferret> sub inside the eval?
02:18 < deafferret> or an eval inside a sub?
02:18 <@Haaarg> sub f { eval {return;}; print "this is executed\n"; }
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02:19 < deafferret> gotcha
02:20 < deafferret> thankfully my ignorance would not have made me assume anything. I would have had to run it to see what the hell happened :D
02:20 <+patspam> presumably the block passed to eval is an anonymous sub
02:20 <@Haarg> roughly, yeah
02:20 <@Haarg> now i just have to figure out what i was thinking with that incredibly ugly if
02:28 < CIA-46> wgdev: Graham Knop master * r88411a0 / lib/WGDev/Command.pm : fix handling of full path to config file or config & root specified - http://bit.ly/jxGn1
02:31 <@Haarg> thanks for the bug report patspam
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04:19 < CIA-46> wgdev: Patrick Donelan haarg_master * r40510b2 / lib/WGDev/Command/Config.pm : Added sample config file to doc - http://bit.ly/Kzo4g
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05:27 < perlmonkey21> patspam: sorry, just saw your messages. Okay, sounds good. That one can be closed then :)
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05:53 < elnino> hmm. after reading some wikis and some really old threads, it looks like in order to export a site to HTML, I need to do it from the server side. There isn't anything really on the GUI side to do this (and include the css and images etc) correct?
06:11 < elnino> decided to try httrack for my windows users
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12:38 < CIA-46> WebGUI: martin * r9827 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: Commit w/ approval workflow can crash under race conditions resulting in permanently locked content.
12:38 < CIA-46> WebGUI: martin * r9828 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Form/Textarea.pm): Textarea now includes its js blurb only once.
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13:06 < CIA-46> WebGUI: martin * r9829 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Merging RequestApprovalForVersionTag and texatarea JS blurp fixes (revs 9827 & 9828)
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15:07 < CIA-46> WebGUI: martin * r9830 /WebGUI/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Adding vendor payout manager
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16:02 <+perlmonkey2> g'morning
16:02 <+perlmonkey2> er, afternoon
16:02 <+MrHairgrease> hey mr monkey!
16:02 <+perlmonkey2> howdy MrHairgrease
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16:29 <+crythias1> ..........:)
16:32 <+MrHairgrease> hey crythias is back
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16:39 <+crythias1> yeah.
16:39 <+crythias1> shh
16:39 <+crythias1> don't let JT know.
16:39 <+crythias1> oh. :)
16:39 <+MrHairgrease> too late
16:39 <+MrHairgrease> =)
16:40 <+crythias1> Heh.
16:40 <@rizen> JT is a big stupid jerk
16:40 <@rizen> you shouldn't let him know anything
16:40 <+crythias1> especially that that pest Gerald is around.
16:41 <+BartJol> I heard that on the inside he's just a furry stuffed sweet animal
16:41 <+BartJol> cooking breakfast for guests etc
16:41 <+crythias1> require (unperl:crythias);
16:44 <@rizen> no, that's a damn damn lie!!!
16:45 <+BartJol> I only tell what I heard
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16:45 <@rizen> there's all kinds of rumors going around that he gives free room and board to foreign guests
16:45 <@rizen> but that's a damn lie i tell you
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16:49 <+BartJol> otherwise they would discover his wife tied down in the basement I understood
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16:49 <@rizen> that's just hearsay also
16:50 < SynQ> ah
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16:50 < SynQ> rizen!
16:50 < SynQ> is it WRE release time yet?
16:50 <@rizen> i wish
16:50 <@rizen> been tied up with everything but all week
16:50 < SynQ> i wish to
16:50 < SynQ> wish master
16:50 <@rizen> it's getting closer though
16:51 < SynQ> what is holding you up now?
16:51 <@rizen> so it may be possible before the end of the weekend
16:51 < SynQ> wow
16:51 <@rizen> but i wouldn't hold my breath
16:51 < SynQ> I'm not much of a diving person anyway
16:51 <@rizen> the only thing holding me up now is going through the bug list to see if there are any bugs that need fixing
16:51 <@rizen> and then platform testing
16:51 < SynQ> ah
16:52 <@rizen> i have a clean compile
16:52 <@rizen> and i've added in (i think) all of the perl modules that need to be added
16:52 < SynQ> at least that is something
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16:56 <+perlDreamer> MrHairgrease: looks like some JS is missing from the vendor payout.
16:59 <+MrHairgrease> it is?
16:59 <+MrHairgrease> i check it before committing
16:59 <+MrHairgrease> checked*
16:59 <+MrHairgrease> what file is missing? do you know?
17:00 <+MrHairgrease> oh crap
17:00 <+MrHairgrease> forgot to svn add
17:00 <+MrHairgrease> hang on
17:00 <+perlDreamer> I always do tht
17:01 <+perlDreamer> I noticed that you invoked the manager as an object, which I don't know how to do yet
17:01 <+perlDreamer> but the file wasn't there :)
17:01 <+MrHairgrease> hehe
17:01 <+MrHairgrease> well, I guess I'm only human after all =)
17:01 <+MrHairgrease> it's in svn now
17:03 <+perlDreamer> cool
17:03 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
17:03 <+perlDreamer> you've been very busy
17:04 <+MrHairgrease> in order to see it move and be cool and all you need test data
17:04 <+MrHairgrease> i have a script to generate that, but that requires the bazaar
17:05 <+MrHairgrease> if you wanna see it in action, I can send you a url to a working instance
17:07 <+perlDreamer> yes, please!
17:09 < CIA-46> WebGUI: martin * r9831 /WebGUI/www/extras/ (VendorPayout/vendorPayout.js VendorPayout): Adding accidentally omitted js files for vendor payout manager
17:12 < zmk> hi, I got a problem with the asset manager after some upgrades. First, when going from 7.5.31 to 7.5.40 the asset list is gone and the admin console icons are visible on the bottom of the page, vertically.
17:12 < zmk> when I then go from 7.5.40 to 7.6.15 the asset list is back but new content is gone and there's only a long list of available packages at the bottom ...
17:13 < zmk> I'm using wre 8.5 and did the upgrades using webguiupdate.pl
17:13 <+BartJol> the new content missing is a repoted bug
17:13 <+BartJol> reported
17:13 <@Haarg> yes
17:13 <+perlDreamer> I think the missing content was fixed in 1 branch, too
17:13 <+perlDreamer> not sure about the others
17:14 <@Haarg> it should be fixed for the next release, but you can fix it yourself by importing a couple packages
17:14 <@Haarg> https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/branch/WebGUI_7.6/docs/upgrades/packages-7.6.16/
17:15 < zmk> found it, thanks!
17:15 <@Haarg> if you import the two packages in there it should work
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17:33 <+perlmonkey2> What about a loading mask in the webgui js libs? Looks like it should be easy to add all in a single lib, and can be done without any html/css.
17:34 <+MrHairgrease> what's a loading mask
17:34 <+MrHairgrease> ?
17:35 <+perlmonkey2> When you make an ajax call, sometimes their is a delay. Users sometimes decide to continue clicking. This can cause problems if not accounted for, and even if accounted for, it confuses users on slow connections.
17:35 <+perlmonkey2> So I thought maybe one of those container objects which cover the entire screen creating a layer so that nothing can be clicked on.
17:35 <+perlmonkey2> http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/examples/container/panel-loading.html
17:36 <+perlmonkey2> bah, it's hardly any code at all to reimplment it as needed.
17:43 <+MrHairgrease> yeah, nice
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17:47 < zmk> why are some updates now left as just imported packages (mainly single default templates)?
17:47 <@Haarg> as in they are listed as packages?
17:47 < zmk> yes
17:48 <@Haarg> that should only really happen if the upgrade doesn't work correctly
17:48 <@Haarg> what templates?
17:49 < zmk> misc. and then gallery.css
17:49 < zmk> there's ~20 of them
17:50 < zmk> - WARN - *.conf - WebGUI::User::profileField[901] - No such profile field: versionTagMode
17:50 < zmk> got those messages during the last upgrade, in log files
17:51 <@Haarg> hrm
17:51 <@Haarg> what version did you upgrade from/to ?
17:52 < zmk> 7.5.40->7.6.15
17:53 <@Haarg> i'll have to double check that
17:53 <@Haarg> it sounds like possibly a problem in the upgrade scripts
17:54 < zmk> or with my backup/restore process (I've done 7.5.31->7.5.40 and back and 7.5.40->7.5.16 and back several times in the last 24h) :-)
17:54 < zmk> I'll try to go back to 7.5.31 and do it all over just to be sure.
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18:11 < CIA-46> WebGUI: translation * r9832 /translations/German/German/Asset_Collaboration.pm: Update from translation server
18:11 < CIA-46> WebGUI: jt * r9833 /wrebuild/ (4 files in 4 dirs):
18:11 < CIA-46> WebGUI: - bugfix: MySQL cannot install system tables when /tmp permissions are wrong (#9337)
18:11 < CIA-46> WebGUI: - bugfix: Security issue - Awstats.pl reveals server info on error (#8964)
18:11 < CIA-46> WebGUI: - bugfix: WRE: removesite.pl doesn't remove user from the mysql database user table (#9755)
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18:30 < zmk> ok I double checked it, in 7.5.40 everything is fine, during 7.5.40->7.6.15 (7.5.40->7.6.10 scripts) there are the messages about versionTagMode profile field missing in the log and the template packages are not deployed.
18:34 <@Haarg> well, all that really needs to be done is to edit the assets and set them to not be packages
18:34 <+MrHairgrease> hey haarg, how do i install wgdev from github?
18:35 <@Haarg> you can either clone the git repo, or just download a tarball
18:35 <+MrHairgrease> yeah, I cloned it
18:35 <+MrHairgrease> but there's no Makefile.PL
18:36 <+MrHairgrease> so I ran Build.PL
18:36 <@Haarg> it uses Build.PL instead
18:36 < zmk> yea I figured that :) I hope the error about versionTagMode doesn't cause some hidden problems later
18:36 <+MrHairgrease> I saw that
18:36 <+MrHairgrease> and it builds
18:36 <@Haarg> so perl Build.PL && ./Build && ./Build test && ./Build install
18:36 <+MrHairgrease> but i cannot install it into my perl
18:36 <+MrHairgrease> oh
18:36 <+MrHairgrease> i see
18:36 <+MrHairgrease> thanks
18:37 < zmk> is there a simple way to script the editing-into-not-a-package? doing it by hand for all the packages and for all the sites will kill me :)
18:38 <@Haarg> well, it's simple to do if you don't have any other packages to deal with
18:38 <@rizen> quick poll: i'm creating an opt in statistics submission system for webgui.
18:38 <@rizen> users can go to the stats page in their webgui site
18:38 <@rizen> and click "sent statistics to webgui.org"
18:39 <@rizen> send
18:39 < zmk> Haarg: you mean packages which I don't want to edit?
18:39 < SDuensin> rizen - What's it collecting?
18:39 <@rizen> and then we'll display a page on webgui.org that sumarizes all that data
18:39 <@rizen> SDuensin: that's what i'm polling
18:39 <@rizen> what data should it send to webgui.org
18:39 < SDuensin> :-)
18:39 <@Haarg> it's not hard to globally turn off the package flag on all packages
18:39 <@rizen> here's what i think so far:
18:39 <@Haarg> but if you wanted to do it selectively it would be more complex
18:40 <@rizen> user count, group count, asset count, package count, template count, webgui version number, site name, and the counts of each type of asset
18:40 <+MrHairgrease> you want to display the sitename as well on pb.com?
18:40 < SDuensin> It's OK with me. You'll get to see how sad parts of my empire are.
18:40 <@rizen> i probably wouldn't display site names
18:41 <@rizen> the only reason i'm sending it
18:41 <@rizen> is so if the user sends the information again in the future
18:41 <@rizen> we can update their record
18:41 < zmk> Haarg: just update isPackage in assetData tables?
18:41 <@Haarg> yes
18:42 <+MrHairgrease> hmm
18:42 <+MrHairgrease> i would be more comfortable if you'd hash the sitename and send that instead
18:42 <@rizen> i could do that
18:43 < SDuensin> I want a customizable stats engine. Find out how many times "boobies" is entered on WebGUI.org.
18:43 <+MrHairgrease> it removes privacy issues
18:43 <+MrHairgrease> so I think that would be best
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18:44 <+MrHairgrease> sduensis: that probably correlates with how busy you are
18:44 < SDuensin> MrHairgrease - Yea, sadly.
18:44 <+MrHairgrease> hehe
18:44 < SDuensin> Actually, I may have some custom WG stuff soon. Hoping so, anyway.
18:45 <@rizen> is there any reason to submit the list of macros, or workflow activities, etc that are enabled in the config file?
18:45 <@rizen> well there is a reason to do it
18:46 <@rizen> but is there any useful information to be gleaned from it
18:46 < zmk> Haarg: thanks, it'll be easy, I can simply restrict on lastModified :)
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18:46 < SDuensin> You'd learn who's added custom stuff.
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18:50 <@rizen> anything else?
18:51 < CIA-46> WebGUI: martin * r9834 /WebGUI/ (6 files in 5 dirs): Adding base of Shop account plugin vendor payouts stuff.
18:51 < CIA-46> WebGUI: translation * r9835 /translations/German/German/Asset_MatrixListing.pm: Update from translation server
18:51 < SDuensin> Maybe how many broken configs are out there. :-)
18:52 < jdanpl> I've got WRE in 0.8.5 version. In order to upgrade WebGUI I should install new verision of Module::Find, Class::C3 and XML::FeedPP. What is the best way to install them on working system?
18:52 < SDuensin> I usually run /data/WebGUI/sbin/testEnvironment.pl and let it do it.
18:54 < jdanpl> But when I run testEnvironment.pl it shows everything is good for current webgui version - before upgrade
18:54 < SDuensin> Run it after. Or just use cpan after running setenvironment and do it by hand.
18:54 < jdanpl> ok, thx
18:55 < SDuensin> yw
18:55 * SDuensin likes when he knows an answer
18:56 <@rizen> jdanpl: i usually do: cpan install XML::FeedPP Module::Find Class::C3
18:56 <@rizen> from the command line
18:57 <+perlDreamer> rizen, if you can get it, Operating System
18:57 <+perlDreamer> perl version
18:58 <+perlDreamer> apache version
18:58 <@rizen> how could i do any of that reliably?
18:58 < SDuensin> Server headers?
18:59 <@rizen> server headers are likely turned off
18:59 <@Haarg> distro wouldn't be easy, but linux vs windows etc is simple
18:59 < SDuensin> Yea, I know.
18:59 <@rizen> is there a variable in perl that tells you which version it is?
18:59 <@Haarg> yes
18:59 < SDuensin> What about WRE vs. Screwed Up?
19:00 <@rizen> again, don't know how to detect that reliably
19:00 * perlDreamer whacks SDuensin with snapcount's trout
19:00 <@Haarg> $] or $^V
19:00 <+perlDreamer> foolish hoster. Real WebGUI programmers use the source
19:00 < SDuensin> The crabby PlainBlack guy badgered me into running the WRE!
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19:01 <+perlDreamer> calling tavisto crabby is hardly fair
19:02 < deafferret> fair? on the Internets?
19:02 < SDuensin> :-P
19:05 <@rizen> here's what i have so far
19:05 <@rizen> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m411d98cf
19:07 < SDuensin> That looks tame enough.
19:07 <+perlDreamer> in addition to count, do we need which assets are used?
19:07 <+perlDreamer> like, hasMatrix
19:07 <+perlDreamer> hasSku
19:07 <+perlDreamer> etc?
19:09 < SDuensin> I liked the idea of a count of each asset used.
19:10 < SDuensin> This would be interesting stuff to display on the site's stats page, too.
19:10 <@rizen> there will be a count of each asset type
19:10 <@rizen> i just haven't coded that yet
19:11 < SDuensin> Cool.
19:11 <@rizen> that will be
19:11 <@rizen> select count(*),className from asset group by className
19:14 <@rizen> there, it's in the list now
19:14 <@rizen> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m6edce971
19:14 < SDuensin> Spiffy.
19:17 <@rizen> keep the ideas coming...going to lunch will read when i get back
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19:32 < CIA-46> WebGUI: martin * r9836 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Shop/Vendor.pm: Added pod.
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20:04 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI's mail system sucks
20:04 <+perlDreamer> yes, it saves on database space
20:04 <+perlDreamer> but handling per user preferences for email delivery is not at all straight forward
20:07 <@Haarg> what kind of preferences?
20:07 <+perlDreamer> I'm working on a project where user's can choose to get inbox messages via email, or sms, or both, or neither
20:08 <+perlDreamer> so, to make that happen, you work with Inbox/Message, Mail/Send, and Workflow/Activity/SendQueuedMessages
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20:10 < knowmad> TGIF all you gooey folks
20:10 <+perlDreamer> howdy, knowmad!
20:10 < knowmad> hey PD
20:10 < knowmad> i'm working on an upgrade from 7.5.30 to 7.5.40 and hit an error that isn't turning up in google searches
20:11 < knowmad> Anyone ever see -- "Set default ITransact Credentials template if it is not set... Can't call method "className" on an undefined value at upgrade_7.5.37-7.5.38.pl line 60."
20:12 <+perlDreamer> that would happen if getPaymentGateways was returning undefs
20:12 <+perlDreamer> which it shouldn't do
20:13 < knowmad> ahh, but i think that we've tweaked our payment gateways on this site...
20:13 <+perlDreamer> hmmm....
20:13 < knowmad> thanks for the pointer
20:13 <+perlDreamer> try running the test suite, knowmad
20:13 < knowmad> i need to go to topsub who worked on that
20:13 <+perlDreamer> it may help point out what's up
20:13 < knowmad> or try the test suite ;)
20:14 < knowmad> *this* is why we setup a staging server this morning
20:14 <+perlDreamer> good planning
20:14 < knowmad> yep, it's a life and hair saving device
20:15 < knowmad> if we don't use itransact, how bad would it be to edit the upgrade script to remove this step?
20:16 <+perlDreamer> if you'll _never_ use itransact, it would be fine
20:16 <+perlDreamer> it might be easier just to stick in a "next unless $driver" line in there, too
20:16 <+perlDreamer> so it skips the undefs
20:16 < knowmad> cool
20:16 < knowmad> i'll try that
20:16 < knowmad> btw, can i just run the upgrade scripts directly?
20:16 < knowmad> so i can test my edits?
20:16 <+perlDreamer> I think so
20:17 <+perlDreamer> perl upgrade_x.x.x_y.y.y.pl --configFile=configFile
20:17 * perlDreamer waits for Haarg to come in and correct any problems in that
20:17 < knowmad> thanks, brb
20:17 <@Haarg> i haven't done that for a while so i don't remember how strict it is on paths
20:18 < knowmad> i'll let you know
20:18 < knowmad> idoes configFile arg take fullpath or just filename?
20:18 < knowmad> i always forget that
20:18 <+perlDreamer> that's the question
20:18 <+perlDreamer> it usually only takes filename
20:18 < knowmad> oh, i see
20:18 <+perlDreamer> but the upgrade script may do the translation to the individual scripts
20:19 < knowmad> that seemed to work
20:20 < knowmad> really easy fix to bail by adding " $driver && " into the unless check
20:20 < knowmad> thanks guys
20:20 <+perlDreamer> oh yeah
20:20 < knowmad> want a patch?
20:20 < knowmad> i guess it'd help for poorly written payment drivers :)
20:20 <+perlDreamer> yes, please. Could you attach it to a bug report?
20:21 <+perlDreamer> or poorly written upgrade scripts :)
20:21 * perlDreamer speaks as the writer of that sub
20:21 < knowmad> i'll setup a bug report with my patch and let you guys decide whether it's a bad driver or bad upgrade
20:22 <+perlDreamer> 2 wiki spams, and it's only 11:30am
20:25 < knowmad> there you go -- http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/9942
20:26 <+perlDreamer> thanks :)
20:27 < knowmad> on to the next payment issue in 7.5.38-7.5.39 upgrade script...Get rid of the duplicate label properties in the PayDrivers... Can't call method "getId" on an undefined value at upgrade_7.5.38-7.5.39.pl line 58.
20:27 < knowmad> i'm going to try the same approach
20:30 < knowmad> no idea if that's right but if gateway is undefined, i'm going on to next gateway
20:30 < knowmad> i just wonder why WebGUI::Shop::Pay would be returning undefined values... i'll report a bug with my patch and see if you have any ideas
20:31 <@tavisto> ooh preaction that would be coolio
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20:31 <@tavisto> re: webgui worldwide + sightings
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20:33 <@preaction> tavisto: yeah, there are websites that will take photos of a site's homepage automatically, then we can let the user update their WebGUI Sighting directly from their own WebGUI site
20:33 <@preaction> there's a whole bunch of awesome stuff we can do with this
20:34 < knowmad> perlDreamer: here's the 2nd bug report -- http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/9943
20:35 <@tavisto> yeah I've seen some of those... can't remember their names but have stumbled upon them in the past..
20:36 <@tavisto> preaction, with the new gallery asset, would it be easy to have the photos have pop up views of the larger screenshots when you move over them? I thought I saw this in the past when the gallery was being built
20:36 <@Haarg> seems there's a couple bugs with the 7.5.40-7.6.10 upgrade. that won't be expecially fun to deal with.
20:37 <@preaction> tavisto: it's possible, yes
20:37 <@tavisto> so if I move my mouse over a thumbnail, it pops it up automatically in a slightly larger view, or if I click on it it takes me to a full size lightbox type view
20:37 <@tavisto> is that something that can be done from a designer standpoint or is that going to require a preaction
20:37 <@preaction> a designer might be able to do it
20:37 <@tavisto> so accomplished with just some templates and js?
20:38 < knowmad> Haarg: are you saying that we'll need to upgrade to 7.6.10 before going to 7.6.15 when upgrading from 7.5.x?
20:38 <@preaction> tavisto: yeah
20:38 <@Haarg> no
20:38 <@Haarg> once you are up to 7.5.40, you can go to any version >= 7.6.11
20:38 <@Haarg> but there's a couple bugs in the upgrade script that i need to deal with
20:39 < knowmad> ahh, perhaps you could comment on the 2 bug reports i just filed then as i suspect those will cause us problems in the future if we don't either fix-up the upgrades or fix-up our custom pay drivers
20:41 <@Haarg> preaction, perlDreamer, opinions on the config file format WGDev? i used YAML just because it is my preference for that kind of thing, but patspam advocated switching to something else (JSON based or Config::General) to eliminate whitespace sensitivity.
20:42 <@preaction> i would say JSON for consistency's sake
20:45 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, what kind of bugs?
20:45 <@Haarg> in the upgrade script?
20:45 <@Haarg> first, there's been a few reports of things not getting the package flag turned off
20:45 <+perlDreamer> (11:39:55 AM) Haarg: seems there's a couple bugs with the 7.5.40-7.6.10 upgrade. that won't be expecially fun to deal with.
20:45 <@Haarg> possibly related to problems with the version tag mode
20:46 <@Haarg> also, the head block thing
20:46 <@Haarg> a number of people were using the head block in the style template
20:46 <+perlDreamer> hm
20:46 <@Haarg> and there wasn't really any indication that it was not supposed to be done
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20:47 <+perlDreamer> are you thinking that we revert back, or provide another solution?
20:47 <@Haarg> additionally, it still works to put tags in the style template's extra head tags
20:47 <@Haarg> i'm thinking either we treat style templates the same as normal templates in the upgrade script
20:48 < ckotil> I just upgraded from 7.5.32-stable to 7.6.15-stable, and when i ran update.pl --doit it said 'NO UPGRADES NECESSARY'. Is that expected?
20:48 <@Haarg> or have the upgrade script actually put the head tags into the head block of the style template
20:48 <@Haarg> that can't be done as one upgrade step
20:48 < ckotil> ah
20:48 <+perlDreamer> there are no more head blocks?
20:49 <@Haarg> you have to upgrade to 7.5.40, then to 7.6.x
20:49 < ckotil> ok. thanks
20:49 < ckotil> this was just my dev server.
20:49 < ckotil> no biggy :)
20:49 <@Haarg> this is only an issue for style templates
20:49 <@Haarg> and only in the upgrade script
20:49 <+perlDreamer> right, but we got rid of head blocks completely, didn't we?
20:49 <@Haarg> yeah, but we have extra head tags
20:50 <+perlDreamer> I wonder why rizen said not to use extra head tags for style templates
20:50 <@Haarg> well, it doesn't make much sense to do that
20:50 <@Haarg> since you have the html head right there
20:50 <@Haarg> but it does work
20:50 <@Haarg> and it worked to use the head block in 7.5
20:51 < ckotil> heh. so i didnt read up; didnt realize you two were discussing the7.5.4 - 7.6.10 difficultys ;)
20:51 < ckotil> should i hold off on upgrading?
20:51 <@Haarg> you may want to
20:52 <@Haarg> both of these should be fixed for the release on tuesday
20:52 < ckotil> ok
20:52 < ckotil> sweet.
20:52 < ckotil> will we be able to do a direct upgrade then?
20:53 <@Haarg> from 7.5.32? no.
20:54 <@Haarg> you are fine to go to 7.5.40, and will need to before going to 7.6.x
20:59 < ckotil> k
20:59 <+perlDreamer> manually parsing the head block of the template is possible
20:59 < ckotil> thanks for the info
20:59 * knowmad says goodbye for now
20:59 <+perlDreamer> but it would be much simpler just to treat all templates the same way
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20:59 <+perlDreamer> and to move the headBlocks into the extra head tags of the style templates
21:01 <+perlDreamer> plus, it would prevent this problem from cropping up in the future, where he have an exclusion rule for style templates, but all others work fine.
21:01 <+perlDreamer> maybe in wG 8 we need a different template subclass for style that don't have extra head tags
21:01 <@Haarg> ok
21:02 <+perlDreamer> what do you think, Haarg?
21:02 <@Haarg> so from the sound of it all we really need to do is change the upgrade to not wipe the style template's head tags
21:02 <+perlDreamer> right
21:03 <+perlDreamer> and to change the gotchas.txt file, and anything in the code that might suggest that it used to work that way.
21:04 * perlDreamer goes running to burn off some frustration
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21:50 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9837 /WebGUI/docs/ (3 files in 2 dirs): fixed #9913: New Content Side Bar missing in Asset window
--- Log opened Mon Mar 16 21:50:33 2009
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21:52 <@tavisto> preaction, you around?
21:56 <+perlmonkey2> Anyone think it would be a cool addition to the JS core libs to have a lib you could include in the HTML, then just call hide(), show() and it add a loading mask over the screen? Would only take a few moments to write as I've got the code in Survey right now.
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22:40 <+MrHairgrease> perlmonkey2: yeah, that could be handy
22:40 <+MrHairgrease> especially since that would give a common look and feel to everything that uses it
22:41 <+perlmonkey2> MrHairgrease: no one at PB sounded interested though, and it is really only saving 10-20 lines of code, so no biggy.
22:41 <+MrHairgrease> ok, I've managed to live without such a thing for about 27 years now, so it's probably no biggie =)
22:42 <@rizen> perlmonkey2 sure that could be useful
22:43 <+perlmonkey2> rizen: okay, cool, I'll roll it into a stand-alone lib, put the default jpg in the same JS dir, and add it to head.
22:43 <+perlmonkey2> wait....I'll put the jpg where it belongs, not in the same dir as the js file :P
22:56 <+perlDreamer> rizen: While I have the hood open on the Shelf, if you want anything else set/fixed it would be a good time to do it.
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00:24 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9861 /WebGUI/t/Mail/Send.t: Fix syntax warnings.
00:24 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9862 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/t/Mail/Send.t: Backporting test fixes.
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--- Log opened Tue Mar 17 08:10:41 2009
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16:20 <+BartJol> kaleb?
16:22 <+BartJol> perlmonkey2: ?
16:22 <+perlmonkey2> BartJol: ?
16:22 <+BartJol> ah
16:22 <+BartJol> I have a question about the new survey
16:23 <+perlmonkey2> there is a 50% chance I have an answer.
16:23 <+BartJol> we still have to update a 7.4 site to latest stable
16:23 <+BartJol> only we misused some of the fields
16:23 <+perlmonkey2> :O
16:23 <+BartJol> misused or turned the use to our advantage
16:27 <+BartJol> and we get the results by using a macro
16:27 <+BartJol> I think it was the isCorrect field
16:27 -!- SDuensin_ is now known as SDuensin
16:28 <+BartJol> indeed it was
16:29 <+BartJol> we enetered different values than 0 and 1, to assign more categories
16:29 <+BartJol> you think that will break during upgrade?
16:29 <+BartJol> just a feeling is enough, I won't hold you responsible
16:30 <+BartJol> so perlmonkey2, you think that will break?
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16:52 <+perlmonkey2> BartJol: hmm, good question
16:53 <+perlmonkey2> BartJol: the upgrade doesn't bring results with it, only the surveys. But the isCorrect shouldn't matter as long as it is zero or non-zero.
16:57 <+BartJol> I also saw the tables with an extension _old, are those tables with old surveys in them??
16:58 <+BartJol> ah, mmm if results are missing that might be a sort of a problem
16:59 <+perlmonkey2> BartJol: the old survey data is stored in those tables so that it can be saved as needed. But those tables aren't used by wG at all.
17:00 <+BartJol> ah
17:00 <+BartJol> mmm, we'll have to make some adjustments for that then
17:01 <+BartJol> ok, it's good to be prepared
17:02 <+perlmonkey2> good luck. If I can help, let me know.
17:03 <+BartJol> well, I think we will manage, but we know how your IRC name is spelled
17:03 <+perlmonkey2> Hmm, I think something is wrong with my slider step algorithm. If I have 500 pixels, 10 steps, then why is each step 56 pixels?
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17:05 <+BartJol> eeeh blame it on borders
17:05 <+BartJol> and IE
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17:54 < SDuensin> Greetings all.
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17:55 < SDuensin> hehehe - I love the hat on Gooey today.
17:55 <+BartJol> hidiho
17:56 < SDuensin> Anyone familiar with the WebGUI Demo System stuff in the WRE?
17:56 <+BartJol> I know Koen is
17:56 <+BartJol> but he is ill
17:56 <+perlDreamer> uh oh
17:57 <+perlDreamer> too many diapers?
17:57 <+BartJol> no, prolly a bad sandwich
17:57 < SDuensin> I'd like to implement it on my server, but wanted to know what I was in for. :-)
17:57 <+BartJol> well
17:57 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin: have you checked the Admin Guide?
17:58 <+BartJol> I can take a look at the server if you have a specific question
17:58 < SDuensin> I'd love to. Send me one? :-P
17:58 < SDuensin> I just have a basic WRE install with my sites on it. I'd like to enable the demo stuff so people can try WebGUI off one of them.
17:58 <+BartJol> you're positioned west right?
17:58 <+BartJol> I'll try and throw
17:58 < SDuensin> St. Louis area.
17:59 < SDuensin> hehe
17:59 <+BartJol> west for me
17:59 * SDuensin wants to get all the guides, but he needs another paying gig or two first.
17:59 <+perlDreamer> Major, we've picked up something on the radar
17:59 <+BartJol> maybe with skitting on the ocean water I can make it
17:59 <+perlDreamer> apparently, The Netherlands has launched a preemptive attack on the United States
17:59 <+perlDreamer> Major: What? What did they launch?
18:00 <+perlDreamer> It appears to be small, non-metallic
18:00 <+BartJol> black
18:00 <+perlDreamer> Major: Ye Gods! Our anti-ballistic missile shield is dependent on magnetic sensors
18:00 <+perlDreamer> We won't be able to stop it!
18:00 <+perlDreamer> Notify the president, prepare a counter attack!
18:00 < SDuensin> Call Jack Bauer!
18:01 <+perlDreamer> Jack Bauer, heh
18:01 <+perlDreamer> Against the Netherlands, he'd have no chance
18:01 <+BartJol> mmm, I believe it got stuck on a tower somewhere in London
18:01 < SDuensin> Ever google for Jack Bauer kill stats? If you have to talk to him, do it around 8PM. He doesn't kill people then.
18:01 <+perlDreamer> No, there's only one man who can handle The Netherlands
18:01 <+perlDreamer> Get me rizen on the hotline.
18:02 <@rizen> Plain Black, This is Rizen. How can I help you?
18:02 <+perlDreamer> rizen, we have a situation
18:02 <+perlDreamer> Apparently The Netherlands has launched a preemptive strike against the United States
18:02 <+perlDreamer> We're currently tracking an object that is aimed at...
18:02 <+perlDreamer> St Lewis
18:04 <@rizen> St Lewis or St Louis?
18:04 < SDuensin> Oh oh. Someone woke the boss.
18:05 <@rizen> St Louis will be protected by the ARCH shield defense grid
18:05 <@rizen> St Lewis...well we don't care about them anyway.
18:05 < SDuensin> The Wicket to the West!
18:05 <+BartJol> does it smell like raw fish and beer? if not, I think someone elsehas thrown it
18:06 <+perlDreamer> The Netherlands just released this statement:
18:06 <+perlDreamer> Return my bike, or the next one won't miss...
18:07 <+BartJol> eeeh, mostly with that statement, we throw things east
18:07 <+BartJol> das ist mein Fahrad!
18:08 <+BartJol> apologies to every german in da house
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18:12 <+perlDreamer> That's the best laugh I've had all week
18:13 <+perlDreamer> thanks guys
18:13 <+BartJol> :)
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18:40 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, I think I may have found a problem with WebGUI::Mail::Send
18:40 <@Haarg> oh?
18:40 <+perlDreamer> this could be a test issue, but I don't think so
18:41 <+perlDreamer> If you tell Mail::Send to send mail to a user with no email address, it seems to hang
18:41 <+perlDreamer> this is using t/smptd.pl
18:41 <+perlDreamer> it might be different with sendmail/qmail or the like
18:41 <+perlDreamer> let me nopaste some stuff for you to look at
18:43 <+perlDreamer> modified t/Mail/Send.t: http://gist.github.com/80634
18:43 <+perlDreamer> modified t/smptd.pl: http://gist.github.com/80633
18:43 <+perlDreamer> I was testing some new user profile settings for some custom work
18:44 <+perlDreamer> so I started with t/Mail/Send.t and duplicated the test that really sends mail via smtpd.pl
18:44 <+perlDreamer> I set up a user with no email address
18:44 <+perlDreamer> and the test hangs in the same place every time
18:44 <+perlDreamer> waiting for mail
18:45 <+perlDreamer> it reminded me about the random times when sending mail via spectre seems to hang
18:45 <+perlDreamer> and this would do it
18:45 <+perlDreamer> I'm going to try tracing the Mail/Send code to see just where it's hanging inside there
18:45 <+perlDreamer> I'm guessing on sending the to: line
18:45 <+perlDreamer> but, like I said, this could also just be due to the little mail server for the test
18:46 <+perlDreamer> anyway, in your copious spare time :) maybe you could try it with a real email server?
18:47 <+perlDreamer> and if it does the same, maybe we can close a longstanding Spectre issue
18:50 <+perlDreamer> oh no
18:50 <+perlDreamer> it's the test
18:51 <+perlDreamer> if there's no mail, it doesn't send
18:51 <+perlDreamer> so when you try to connect to the server, it has nothing to send
18:51 <+perlDreamer> so it hangs
18:51 <+perlDreamer> grrr
18:57 < CIA-46> WebGUI: daviddelikat * r9865 /branch/adSkuProject/ (lib/WebGUI/Asset/Sku/Ad.pm installAdspace.pl): check point
19:07 <+perlmonkey2> var false = 0;
19:07 <+perlmonkey2> if(false){alert("I will always show up and make your life hell.");}
19:08 <+perlDreamer> I have two books that say that shouldn't work
19:08 <+perlDreamer> must be time to get new books :(
19:10 <+perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: look at www/wobject/Survey/administer.js line 394
19:10 <+perlmonkey2> If q.required has any value at all (and it always has a 0 or a 1), It will be true.
19:14 <+perlDreamer> yeah, Javascript, the Good Parts, page 12
19:14 <+perlDreamer> False stuff
19:14 <+perlDreamer> undefined, '', 0, NaN
19:14 <+perlDreamer> oh, and false and null
19:14 <+perlDreamer> (had to flip back to page 11 for that)
19:15 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2, how about an explicit q.required==1 ?
19:16 <+perlDreamer> or, != 0
19:16 <+perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: yeah, that's what I did.
19:17 <+perlmonkey2> Just more fun with JS.
19:21 <@tavisto> preaction, thanks brotha... CSS was the 3v1lhaxx0r culprit
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19:33 <+perlDreamer> you know you're having a bad hair day when even your nose hairs have split ends
19:41 <+perlmonkey2> ick
19:52 <+perlmonkey2> What would it mean to make a slider type question "required"? Since all points on the slider are valid choices it is always answered.
19:53 <@preaction> one point on the slider may be a perl false value, which won't be allowed
19:53 <@preaction> er.. one or more points
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20:03 <+perlmonkey2> preaction: it is validated in JS the first time. And I' mnot thinking implementation, just logically, if it is required, how could it not be answered?
20:03 <+perlmonkey2> IE, is thre any point to requriing a slider?
20:04 <@preaction> i don't know, really. perhaps in the future there will be a new "undef" starting point?
20:04 <@preaction> though JS false values are similar to Perl false values
20:31 < CIA-46> WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r9866 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Survey slider types improved and corrected. Single slider type now ingores "required".
20:31 < CIA-46> WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r9867 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Survey slider types improved and corrected. Single slider type now ingores "required".
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22:05 <@Haarg> perlDreamer, any particular bugs you are aware of that should be dealt with prior to the release?
22:06 <+perlDreamer> I have no bug fixes in the works
22:06 <+perlDreamer> I'm a little concerned about that DataForm bug
22:06 <+perlDreamer> it would be nice to know how it got broken in the first place
22:07 <+perlDreamer> this is the one: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/9948
22:08 <@tavisto> Anyone going to Apache Con in Amsterdam next week?
22:09 <+perlDreamer> and it would be nice to know if this bug was ever resolved: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/9539
22:09 <+perlDreamer> or if people are just living with it
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22:59 < CIA-46> WebGUI: brian * r9868 /branch/crop/lib/WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Checkpoint
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23:35 <+perlDreamer> /we hates Mail/Send
23:35 <+perlDreamer> We hates it forever!!!!!!!!!!!!
23:38 <@tavisto> iphone 3.0 is going to rock perlDreamer's face
23:38 <@tavisto> boomshakalaka
23:49 <+perlDreamer> tavisto, as long as it doesn't rock my faith, all is well
23:49 <@tavisto> well it should rock your faith in a blackberry
23:49 <@tavisto> that's about it though :)
23:50 <@rizen> tavisto is an iphone zealot
23:50 <@tavisto> hah, yeah Rizen isn't at all......
23:50 <+perlDreamer> he's also a WebGUI zealot
23:50 * perlDreamer is noticing a trend
23:50 <@rizen> we aren't talking about rizen
23:50 <@tavisto> I had to twist his arm to buy an iphone
23:50 <@tavisto> he kept telling me about how they were terrible and how much he hated apple... how he'd never break apart from microsoft... blah blah blah
23:50 <@rizen> yeah, i didn't go through any trials or tribulations getting my iphone
23:51 <+perlDreamer> rizen runs VMS at home
23:51 <@rizen> i didn't have a vasectomy in the morning, and then wait in line for 6 hours that afternoon to get my iphone on launch day
23:51 <+perlDreamer> TMI, dude
23:51 <@rizen> VMS is far to progressive for me perlDreamer
23:51 <+perlDreamer> this is a PG-13 channel
23:52 <@rizen> vasectomy is certainly in the realm of PG-13
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23:52 <@rizen> PG you might have an arguement
23:52 <+perlDreamer> no, it's the 6 hour iPhone wait that got you busted
23:52 <@rizen> oh
23:53 <@rizen> so it turns out that Net::FTPServer rules the world
23:53 <@tavisto> yeah but then it turned out he didn't buy an iPhone, but rather a MacBook Wheel
23:53 <@rizen> i wrote an FTP server in about a half hour that authenticates you against webgui, creates your home directory, puts you in a chroot jail, and makes the files accessilbe to webgui
23:54 <+perlDreamer> with tests?
23:54 <@tavisto> "just scroll to the letter that you want... and then click again to capitalize... and then you're done.. just repeat that for every letter....."
23:54 <@rizen> and if i had gotten any sleep at all last night, it would have been 15 minutes
23:54 <@rizen> no tests
23:54 <@rizen> i don't test anything
23:54 <@rizen> ever
23:54 <@rizen> i just assume it works
23:54 <@rizen> cuz i wrote it
23:54 <+perlDreamer> you test something all the time...
23:54 <@tavisto> pfft
23:55 <+perlDreamer> MY TESTING PATIENCE!
23:55 <@rizen> is it your patience
23:55 <@rizen> he
23:55 <@rizen> heheh
23:55 * perlDreamer huffs and puffs
23:55 <+perlDreamer> and prepares to
23:55 <@tavisto> sissy
23:55 <+perlDreamer> to
23:55 <+perlDreamer> crud
23:55 <@rizen> it's not my fault you haven't seen shawshank recently and are therefore running out of testing material
--- Day changed Wed Mar 18 2009
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00:04 <+perlDreamer> is webgui.org being updated?
00:12 <@preaction> perlDreamer: correct suh
00:12 <+perlDreamer> shouldn't it show the maintenance screen?
00:16 <@tavisto> yeah I don't see that either
00:16 <@tavisto> my screen says "error: perlDreamer smells like teen spirit"
00:17 * perlDreamer thinks that there's an extra "ir" in that last word
00:18 * deafferret hauks a loogey
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00:52 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9869 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/lib/WebGUI/AssetExportHtml.pm: fix exporting oops
00:52 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9870 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.5.40-7.6.10.pl: don't clear style template extra head tags on upgrade
00:52 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9871 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Survey.pm: add missing i18n
00:52 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9872 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/lib/WebGUI/Help/Asset_Collaboration.pm: fix Collaboration help
00:52 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9873 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.6.16 release
00:52 < CIA-46> WebGUI: jt * r9874 /wrebuild/wre/var/ (upgrades/upgrade_0.8.5-0.9.0.pl setupfiles/my.cnf): changing upgrade to upgrade mysql tables and config file to 5.1
01:12 <+perlDreamer> yay! No wiki spam in 24 hour
01:12 <+perlDreamer> s
01:16 * deafferret summons the spambots: perlDreamer is lonely!
01:16 <+perlDreamer> more bored than lonely
01:16 < deafferret> need some work? I've got some :)
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01:23 <+perlDreamer> deafferret, bored in that I don't have any wiki spam to delete
01:23 <+perlDreamer> if things should slow down though, I'll give you a holler
01:23 < deafferret> :)
01:24 <@rizen> perlDreamer: i've integrated a spam filtering system into webgui
01:24 <@rizen> it's very basic
01:24 <@rizen> but you could tie that into the wiki
01:24 <@rizen> so it would auto filter spam
01:33 <+perlDreamer> where's this code at, rizen?
01:34 <@rizen> the postProcess method of WebGUI::Asset::Post
01:34 <@rizen> i didn't make it into an api because i was thinking it was a stop gap
01:34 <@rizen> for a real spam solution
01:34 <@rizen> but it's been quite effective
01:34 <@rizen> so it may be the permanent solution
01:35 <@rizen> we used it on cmsmatrix.org and it took us from 100 new spam messages per day to 0
01:36 <@rizen> anyway, you could just copy and paste that code for the most part into the processPropertiesFromFormPost method of WikiPage
01:36 <@rizen> and that would likely solve the problem
01:38 <+perlDreamer> http://use.perl.org/~Ovid/journal/38653
01:38 -!- steve_ is now known as Mech422
01:40 * perlDreamer decides to buy ammunition, hire consultants, raise my prices, and not answer RFP's anymore
01:40 <+perlDreamer> of course, I haven't answered any yet, so this is not a big change.
01:41 < Mech422> perldreamer: ??
01:42 <+perlDreamer> read that URL I posted, Mech422
01:43 <@rizen> Issue Request For Ammunition has happened to us more times than I can count
01:43 <@rizen> With the exception of one time, we've never gotten a contract based on an RFP. Instead its from a company who's doing a real evaluation and wants to hear our sales pitch.
01:43 < Mech422> rfp's are a waste - thats old news :-)
01:44 < Mech422> and the bigger ones are quite clearly targeted at 'big 3' shops
01:45 < Mech422> (6 copies, on CD and Paper, copies of biz. insurance , etc etc )
01:46 <@preaction> so they use us to underbid "Some Major" software company (SM). SM matches or at least reduces their bid, knowing there's no hope of them reaching that price (that or they rediculously overbid because they know this will happen)
01:46 <@preaction> and the only one who's out anything is us.
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02:04 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9875 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (110 files in 37 dirs): Merge in HEAD, up to 9866.
02:04 < CIA-46> WebGUI: jt * r9876 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/wre.conf: wrong version number
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02:48 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9877 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Add a duplicate story template to be used for the Topic.
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12:09 < CIA-46> WebGUI: martin * r9878 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Shop/Vendor.pm: Added POD, reordered subs to be wg coding guidelines compliant.
12:10 * Radix_ rofls at a friend's facebook status "Peter wonders if he will ever be able to use the excuse "Someone drove a road compactor through the server room" ever again"
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13:58 < CIA-46> WebGUI: yung * r9879 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/WebGUI.pm): rfe #9355: Password Recovery email subject
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14:33 < CIA-46> WebGUI: yung * r9880 /branch/WebGUI_flux/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/WebGUI.pm: fixed password recovery email subject
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14:51 < knowmad> hey gang, is anyone using SQL Form with WebGUI 7.5+? I'm seeing a problem in the Form Population tab.
14:52 < knowmad> I thought there was an svn branch where work was continuing but I don't see it at svn.webgui.org
15:00 < knowmad> ahh, found the link in the wiki -- https://svn.webgui.org/sqlform/WebGUI
15:00 < knowmad> is everyone still sleeping?
15:01 < ryuu_ro> No Oqapi's never sleep :)
15:01 < knowmad> yes, i've heard that about Oqapi's
15:01 < knowmad> plus, it's still working hours over there isn't it?
15:02 < ryuu_ro> yep, I'm afraid so
15:02 < ryuu_ro> only 3 hours left
15:02 < knowmad> yes, exactly
15:02 < knowmad> i'm just on my first cuppa joe
15:03 < knowmad> and prepping to go battle the bugs
15:03 < ryuu_ro> :) you need the new laser that Bill Gates is building
15:03 < ryuu_ro> it for killing the entire malaria mosquito population
15:03 < ryuu_ro> darn bugs
15:04 < knowmad> yeah, they're going to do us in one day; did you ever read Orson Scott Card's Ender series?
15:04 < ryuu_ro> nope, is it good?
15:04 < knowmad> yes, very good
15:05 < knowmad> Ender's Game is the first
15:05 < knowmad> sci-fi
15:06 < ryuu_ro> I'm on the website right now, I was planning to start a new sci-fi series
15:06 < ryuu_ro> thanks for pointing me in this direction :)
15:06 < knowmad> yw, let me know what you think if you read it
15:06 < ryuu_ro> will do
15:16 < knowmad> Are there any devs who know how responseXML objects work such as "req.responseXML.getElementsByTagName("Option"); "
15:17 < knowmad> This is generating a JS error that the response is null which is causing SQLForm cross-linking to fail
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15:30 < knowmad> morning rizen
15:30 <@rizen> is it morning already?
15:30 < knowmad> it is down here on the East coast
15:30 < knowmad> kinda foggy but definitely bright outside
15:31 <@rizen> i see
15:31 <@rizen> well then it must be morning here too
15:31 <@rizen> or at least pretty soon
15:31 <@rizen> so good morning back to you
15:31 <@rizen> or perhaps
15:31 <@rizen> top o' the morning
15:31 < knowmad> yes, i'm sure it's heading your way :)
15:31 <@rizen> given yesterday's festivities
15:31 < knowmad> hey, I need some history on SQL Form; is Martin the mastermind behind this asset?
15:31 < knowmad> what festivities?
15:32 <@rizen> st. patricks day
15:32 < knowmad> oh
15:32 < knowmad> i'm too old for the festivities part and don't live in Ireland
15:32 <@rizen> The history that I know is that it was built specifically for one of Oqapi's clients.
15:32 <@rizen> And Martin got it into the core, but I don't know for sure that he designed it.
15:33 <@rizen> You should never be too old.
15:33 < knowmad> ok, i'll try posting my issues to the dev forum to see if i can get some help getting it working in 7.5+
15:33 < knowmad> well, let's say I age out of some things
15:33 <@rizen> that's very sad
15:34 < knowmad> nah, it actually simplifies life
15:34 <@rizen> i hope some day you age back into them
15:34 < knowmad> perhaps i will; i like that thinking!
15:34 < knowmad> off to do our quoting! good day
15:42 < daviddelikat> rizen: is there an icon for the adsku project yet?
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15:43 < CIA-46> WebGUI: martin * r9881 /WebGUI/ (6 files in 5 dirs): Adding minimum checkout amount.
15:43 <@rizen> but put it in the def like there is one anyway
15:43 <@rizen> call it adsku.gif
15:43 <@rizen> and i'll have someone create one
15:44 < daviddelikat> should I just copy one so that something shows up? or leave it blank?
15:44 <@rizen> just leave it blank
15:45 < daviddelikat> ok
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17:04 <@plainhao> how do i unlock an asset for editing?
17:05 <@plainhao> i did it before, now i can't remember
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17:07 <+MrHairgrease> plainhao, the easiest way is to switch to the version tag that the asset's in
17:08 <@plainhao> trying that now, just a bit confused on how exactly to do that
17:08 <+MrHairgrease> you can use the admin bar on the left
17:08 <+MrHairgrease> just click on the tag you need
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17:21 < CIA-46> WebGUI: martin * r9882 /WebGUI/t/Shop/Cart.t: Added tests for WebGUI::Shop::Cart->readyForCheckout.
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17:22 <+perlDreamer> morning, folks
17:23 <@rizen> you're too late
17:23 <@rizen> knowmad already said that
17:23 <@rizen> 2 hours ago
17:25 <+perlDreamer> but he's gone
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17:27 <+BartJol> I know some people that said goodmorning 7.5 hours ago...
17:28 <+perlDreamer> it must be like beer:30
17:29 <+perlDreamer> where it is always time to drink beer somewhere in the world
17:29 <+MrHairgrease> perlDreamer, how do I test for boolean values in a t file?
17:29 <+perlDreamer> ok
17:29 <+MrHairgrease> ah
17:29 <+MrHairgrease> of course
17:29 <+MrHairgrease> thanks
17:29 <+perlDreamer> you're writing tests!
17:29 <+perlDreamer> what a guy
17:29 <+perlDreamer> I wonder if baked things can be shipped internationally...
17:31 <@preaction> perlDreamer: yes, provided you wrap them well
17:31 <@preaction> the cookies I got from Canada were basically destroyed in-transit, and they were in a metal box
17:31 <+perlDreamer> that was to beat the xray machine
17:31 <+MrHairgrease> is there something like not_ok?
17:31 <+MrHairgrease> or should i ok( ! )
17:31 <+perlDreamer> ok (! $variable)
17:31 <+MrHairgrease> ok
17:31 <+MrHairgrease> =)
17:32 <+perlDreamer> what are you writing tests for?
17:32 <@preaction> there is a not_ok i thought
17:33 <@preaction> is and isn't
17:33 <+MrHairgrease> stuff I'm adding to the core
17:33 <+perlDreamer> preaction: never heard of not_ok before
17:33 <+MrHairgrease> i tried not_ok, but it complained about main:not_ok not existing
17:34 <+MrHairgrease> but maybe it isn't exported by default
17:34 <+MrHairgrease> anyway
17:34 <+MrHairgrease> the bang works just as well
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17:40 <+MrHairgrease> hey rizen, i just found a bug that will allow you to buy stuff for free if there's a donation asset on the site
17:40 <@rizen> well that's not good
17:40 <+MrHairgrease> I'm about to fix it
17:40 <@rizen> sweet, are you backporting to 7.6 as well?
17:40 <@rizen> or should i have one of my guys do that?
17:41 <+MrHairgrease> I'll backport it too
17:41 <@rizen> you're the best
17:41 <+MrHairgrease> I'm not sure where to fix it though
17:41 <+MrHairgrease> I could do it in Donation itself
17:41 <@rizen> what's the problem?
17:41 <+MrHairgrease> but I'd say products should always have a positive price
17:41 <+MrHairgrease> right?
17:42 <+MrHairgrease> the prob is when you fill in an negetive amount for a donation
17:42 <+MrHairgrease> which will give you in store credit
17:43 <+MrHairgrease> So maybe it should be fixed in Sku->addToCart instead
17:43 <+MrHairgrease> or in Cart->addItem
17:43 <+perlDreamer> I'd fix it everywhere. In the Cart, and in the Donation.
17:43 <+perlDreamer> a negative donation is a payment
17:43 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
17:44 <+MrHairgrease> that was my question: is there any circumstance where the price of a product can be negative?
17:44 <@rizen> no
17:44 <+MrHairgrease> ok
17:44 <@rizen> it can be 0
17:44 <@rizen> but not negative
17:44 <@rizen> oh wait
17:44 <@rizen> the exception is coupons
17:45 <+MrHairgrease> right
17:45 <@rizen> cuz coupons are skus too
17:45 <+MrHairgrease> I'll fix it in the donation asset only too
17:45 <+perlDreamer> but coupons aren't negative, they're positive, but subtracted?
17:45 <+perlDreamer> and the user can't enter in the coupon value
17:45 <+perlDreamer> that's the danger
17:45 <+perlDreamer> if the shop owner shoots themself in the foot, that's one thing
17:45 <@rizen> true, users can't enter the coupon value
17:45 <@rizen> at least with the current coupon
17:46 <@rizen> but if you made addToCar
17:46 <@rizen> check the value
17:46 <@rizen> a coupon wouldn't get added
17:46 <@rizen> cuz it can produce a negative value
17:47 <+MrHairgrease> FlatDiscount has a negative price
17:47 <+MrHairgrease> so addToCart cannot be changed
17:47 <+MrHairgrease> I'll just fix it in the Donation asset
17:53 < CIA-46> WebGUI: martin * r9883 /WebGUI/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Vendor.pm t/Shop/Vendor.t): Adding isVendorInfoComplete method.
17:53 < CIA-46> WebGUI: martin * r9884 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Sku/Donation.pm): Fixed validation issue in Donation asset.
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18:21 < CIA-46> WebGUI: martin * r9885 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Sku/Donation.pm: Cleanup.
18:21 < CIA-46> WebGUI: martin * r9886 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Sku/Donation.pm): Merged donation fix.
18:23 <+perlDreamer> MrHairgrease++
18:30 <+perlDreamer> bbl
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18:49 < daviddelikat> rizen: got a minute?
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18:54 <+BartJol> mmm, the major book attack wasn't even mentioned in the news
18:55 <+MrHairgrease> major book attack?
18:57 <+perlDreamer> It was yesterday, MrHairgrease
18:57 <+perlDreamer> The Netherlands launched an unprovoked attack against the United States
18:57 <+perlDreamer> War was only narrowly avoided
18:57 <@rizen> i'm back now
18:57 <@rizen> daviddelikat:
18:58 <+perlDreamer> I should write about that on my blog :)
18:58 <@tavisto> MrHairgrease, is anyone from the dutch team going to Apache Con?
18:58 <+MrHairgrease> tomorrow we'll be shipping nukes to cuba
18:58 <+MrHairgrease> no
18:58 <+BartJol> mmm, maybe we should put it in the extinguish pot
18:58 <+MrHairgrease> not from oqapi/procolix anyway
18:59 <@tavisto> Alright, Erik from Volvo was trying to get over there and wanted to know if he would see any of the Dutch team there
18:59 <+perlDreamer> rizen, there is an OSCON replacement happening in Portland this year
18:59 <@rizen> bah
19:00 <+perlDreamer> I might be convinced to give a talk about WebGUI there
19:00 <+perlDreamer> but alot will depend on Kathy's schedule, which we don't know until June
19:01 <+BartJol> for her training as midwife you mean?
19:01 <+perlDreamer> yes
19:01 <+perlDreamer> there are a few things that are known
19:01 <+perlDreamer> I am going to do a lot of cooking and cleaning
19:02 < daviddelikat> rizen: I have a question about the AdSku manage page
19:02 <+BartJol> I seriously misread cooking as coding
19:03 <+perlDreamer> coding will occur, too
19:03 < daviddelikat> do you want to show each ad purchased only once or should each renewal show up as well?
19:03 <+BartJol> but will Kathy be at the wuc is the big question
19:04 <+perlDreamer> That is a very good question.
19:04 <+perlDreamer> We won't know until she starts
19:04 <+perlDreamer> school
19:04 <+perlDreamer> If she is on break, then maybe
19:05 <+BartJol> but I should head off and drink beer
19:05 <+perlDreamer> if we can find someone to watch the boys (because this is when school starts)
19:05 <+perlDreamer> Prost!
19:05 <+BartJol> dank je wel
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19:06 <@rizen> daviddelikat: don't care if you roll it up into one value showing a total of call clicks/impressions purchased for that ad, or if you show each renewal as it's own line item
19:06 <@rizen> as long as the user has some way to see what they've purchased vs what's been used
19:06 < daviddelikat> it will be easier to just show each ad once, otherwise the numbers will be messy
19:07 <+perlDreamer> if they want a history of what they've bought, it would be in the Transaction History anyway?
19:07 <+perlDreamer> each purchase?
19:07 < daviddelikat> yup
19:10 <@tavisto> anyone hear that IBM is in talks to buy Sun? http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=14817&tag=nl.e539
19:11 <@tavisto> mySQL would have new daddy
19:13 <+perlDreamer> tavisto, I got to thinking that your Gallery hack from yesterday would make a great Staff Blog posting, or a wiki article...
19:14 <@tavisto> oh streamlining the gallery to cut out all the extra crap
19:14 <@tavisto> that would be called the power of Variables and Templates in WebGUI
19:14 <@rizen> i have another idea for the gallery
19:15 <@rizen> we should get rid of the "photo" concept
19:15 <@rizen> and just make all photos image assets
19:15 <@tavisto> I was thinking about posting to the staff blog on some stuff, but I already post so much crap in the PR and news sections that I clutter up the news sections enough
19:15 <@rizen> and then the display functions of the photos
19:15 <@rizen> would just be part of the album
19:15 <@tavisto> how would that be different to the end user Rizen?
19:16 <@tavisto> er the person using the gallery
19:16 <@rizen> for the person using the gallery the UI could be more streamlined
19:16 <@rizen> because you're not switching through several assets
19:16 <@preaction> better question, how would that work with other File types?
19:16 <@rizen> you're always working with the same asset
19:16 <+perlDreamer> preaction: like video?
19:16 <@tavisto> ooh I like that idea
19:16 <@rizen> secondly
19:17 <@rizen> if you want to reuse your photos somewhere else in the site
19:17 <@rizen> you can easily do that
19:17 <@rizen> because it's just an image asset
19:17 <@rizen> like all the other images you uploaded
19:17 <@tavisto> oh okay so it would be a generic image asset..k gotcha
19:17 <@rizen> preaction: album would just be "aware" of types of assets that it can use
19:17 <@rizen> it is now anyway
19:18 <@tavisto> I think I'm going to change around the sightings gallery so that the photos are grouped into the same categories that we reach out to. (business, education, non-profit, and government
19:18 <@rizen> plus it's not likely that people are going to go out and create lots of plugin types for the gallery
19:19 <@preaction> sounds like a good idea to me. less code in WebGUI is always good
19:19 <@rizen> i'm also thinking we should add a video asset to the system which really just links to a video out on the net somewhere
19:19 <@rizen> so it's aware of youtube, blip.tv, and others
19:19 <+perlDreamer> something that lets you do easy embedding?
19:19 <@rizen> you can paste in the video number, the url, etc
19:19 <+perlDreamer> that's a great idea
19:19 <@rizen> yup
19:19 <@rizen> because people don't really want to upload videos to webgui
19:19 <@rizen> they want to use a video service
19:19 <+perlDreamer> You should think about doing this kind of stuff full time, rizen. You have all these good ideas.
19:20 <@rizen> cuz nobody wants to pay the hosting costs of hosting their own video
19:20 <@rizen> one of these days i might get a job doing just that pD
19:20 <@rizen> =)
19:20 <+perlDreamer> I'd be happy to help you get started out.
19:21 <+MrHairgrease> rizen: i've been planning to do a video plugin.
19:21 <+MrHairgrease> I just never had the time
19:21 <@rizen> the funny thing is that as time goes on and on and on, i have less and less time to actually implement any of the ideas
19:21 <+MrHairgrease> I do have a conversion workflow activity laying around though
19:21 <@rizen> in fact it's gotten to the point where i'm struggling to find the time to even write down the ideas so that other people can do them
19:22 <@preaction> have you used the Notes feature in Mail.app? i find it quite nice
19:22 <@rizen> MrHairgrease: i think you missed it. i don't want a video upload system in webgui
19:22 <@rizen> preaction: i don't mean just writing down the idea...i mean turning it into a spec
19:22 <+MrHairgrease> i never said I needed in webgui did I?
19:23 <@rizen> oh sorry MrHairgrease
19:23 -!- dreamersgirl [n=kathyk@c-98-232-212-12.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
19:23 <@rizen> i thought you were saying put it in the core
19:23 <+perlDreamer> uh oh, time to shape up
19:23 <@rizen> bah
19:23 <@rizen> now's when the cussing should begin
19:23 <@rizen> cuz dreamersgirl is here
19:23 <@rizen> let's get him in trouble
19:23 < dreamersgirl> just as long as you don't cuss me out...
19:24 <@rizen> oh...did you know that perlDreamer almost started an international war yesterday?
19:24 <+perlDreamer> started?
19:24 <+perlDreamer> I was just narrating
19:24 < dreamersgirl> i thought BartJol did that
19:24 <+perlDreamer> It was SDuensin
19:24 < dreamersgirl> ah
19:24 <+MrHairgrease> No, i'd just like to be able to use it in the gallery when the tim ecomes
19:25 <+MrHairgrease> BartJol doesn't even harm a mosquito
19:25 <+MrHairgrease> not intentionally at least =)
19:25 < SDuensin> What I do?!
19:25 <+perlDreamer> You caused an international incident yesterday
19:25 < dreamersgirl> requested a missile be sent from the Netherlands, so I hear
19:25 <+perlDreamer> Seriously damaging relations between the US and a major European country
19:25 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9887 /branch/WebGUI_Story/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/StoryArchive.pm: Parenthesize the call to get to make it stand out.
19:25 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9888 /branch/WebGUI_Story/lib/WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix missing, and broken Help.
19:25 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9889 /branch/WebGUI_Story/lib/WebGUI/Help/Asset_Story.pm: Fix broken Help.
19:25 < SDuensin> Oh yea! That bart nut was throwing books at me!
19:25 < dreamersgirl> something about an admin book?
19:25 <+perlDreamer> that's bart jol, not bart nut
19:26 <+MrHairgrease> nono
19:26 <+MrHairgrease> In Dutch you actually spell it as bart Nut
19:26 <+perlDreamer> if you make me LOL at the office they may ask me to leave
19:26 <+MrHairgrease> huh, you got a new job?
19:27 <+perlDreamer> No, I have a remote office
19:27 < dreamersgirl> :)
19:27 * MrHairgrease doesn't understand
19:27 <+perlDreamer> http://www.insomniacoffeecompany.com/
19:27 <+MrHairgrease> must be the time zone
19:27 < dreamersgirl> they make good coffee
19:27 < dreamersgirl> good hot chocolate, too
19:28 <+MrHairgrease> C|N>K
19:29 <+perlDreamer> $MrHairgrease->requestTranslation('C|N>K');
19:29 <+MrHairgrease> Think C as in Coffee, N as in Nose
19:30 <+MrHairgrease> I'll leave the K open as an exercise for the reader
19:32 <+MrHairgrease> What would be the best way to get i18n labels into js files in the extras directory?
19:32 * perlDreamer exercises 5 days per week
19:32 <+perlDreamer> MrHairgrease, use preaction's handy dandy JS i18n module
19:33 <+MrHairgrease> But does perldreamer get the joke? =)
19:33 <+perlDreamer> you can find it in extras/yui-webgui/i18n
19:33 <+MrHairgrease> ah
19:33 <+MrHairgrease> cool
19:33 <+MrHairgrease> i'll check it out
19:33 <+perlDreamer> MrHairgrease, Does Kathy know coffee?
19:33 <+MrHairgrease> keine ahnung
19:33 <+MrHairgrease> does she?
19:33 <+perlDreamer> there are examples in extras/yui-webgui/asset{History,Manager/
19:34 <+perlDreamer> I think so, maybe I still don't get the joke
19:34 <+MrHairgrease> what would the K be?
19:34 * perlDreamer thought Kathy
19:34 <+perlDreamer> but I have Kathy on the brain :)
19:34 <+MrHairgrease> no
19:34 <+MrHairgrease> think Keyboard
19:35 <+perlDreamer> Coffee | Nose > Keyboard
19:35 <+MrHairgrease> right
19:35 <+MrHairgrease> it's what'll happen when you lol in you remote office
19:35 <+perlDreamer> okay, now I get it
19:35 <+MrHairgrease> good
19:35 < dreamersgirl> that's funny
19:41 <+perlDreamer> I need a nutso, DRY check
19:41 <+perlDreamer> I have some code in StoryArchive that creates template variables.
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19:41 <+perlDreamer> I need an almost exact copy of that in the Story Topic
19:42 * perlDreamer is thinking about abstracting out the code and passing in a callback to that I don't have to copy/paste it
19:42 <+perlDreamer> is that over the top?
19:42 <@preaction> that depends, would they never be different?
19:42 <+perlDreamer> No
19:43 <+perlDreamer> they will be a list of stories, arranged by date
19:43 <+perlDreamer> the difference is the URL to view the story
19:43 <+perlDreamer> that's the only difference
19:43 <+perlDreamer> separate, it is easier to customize the code
19:43 <+perlDreamer> and it is only 12-14 lines of code
19:44 <@preaction> perhaps the abstraction is too much then
19:44 <+perlDreamer> yeah
19:44 * perlDreamer is too DRY
19:57 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9890 /branch/WebGUI_Story/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/StoryArchive.pm: Remove debug.
19:57 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9891 /branch/WebGUI_Story/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/StoryArchive.pm: Always dangle a comma.
19:57 < CIA-46> WebGUI: daviddelikat * r9892 /branch/adSkuProject/ (6 files in 6 dirs): nuther check point
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20:44 * perlDreamer heads back to the Office 001
20:44 <+perlDreamer> bbl
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20:51 <+danny_mk> Hmmm... I think I made a booboo :-(
20:52 <+danny_mk> I was trying to give WebGUI some free advertising by posting to the yahoo applications: http://gallery.yahoo.com/apps/29179
20:53 <+danny_mk> Does it seem like I am the developer of WebGUI?
20:55 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9893 /branch/WebGUI_Story/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/StoryArchive.pm: Do not set addStoryUrl unless the user can really add Stories.
20:55 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9894 /branch/WebGUI_Story/t/Asset/Wobject/StoryArchive.t:
20:55 < CIA-46> WebGUI: Check for addStoryUrl with the right permissions.
20:55 < CIA-46> WebGUI: Move all stories into the past, in preparation for filtering out future Stories based
20:55 < CIA-46> WebGUI: on canEdit.
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22:37 <+perlDreamer> bbl
22:38 <@rizen> i think you're fine danny_mk
22:38 <+danny_mk> good, as long as you say so
22:55 < CIA-46> WebGUI: yung * r9895 /WebGUI/ (6 files in 6 dirs): making account activation email templatable
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23:08 <@preaction> can anyone think of a good reason not to have a setting that allows me to add http headers to all my pages? besides that i can only think of a couple reasons that i might want the feature?
23:12 <+perlDreamer> How is this different from putting them in the Style template?
23:12 <+perlDreamer> or using a Snippet?
23:13 <@Haarg> http headers
23:13 <@Haarg> not html headers
23:13 * perlDreamer is hesitant to reveal his ignorance, but thinks he better just in case
23:13 <+perlDreamer> what's the difference?
23:13 <@Haarg> seems like something that could be useful, but also sounds like kind of a hackish solution to whatever problem you are trying to solve
23:14 <@rizen> are you saying there would be an HTTP header field in all assets?
23:14 <@rizen> or some sort of global field in the settings?
23:14 < daviddelikat> perlDreamer : http headers are part of the protocol whilel html headers are part of the document
23:14 <+perlDreamer> thanks, daviddelikat :)
23:16 <@Haarg> cache controls are the first thing that comes to mind for http headers users would want control over, but i think there would be a better solution than allowing them to be specified directly
23:18 < daviddelikat> I have a question about WG macros, specifically ^Internationa(...); using a placeholder
23:18 <+perlDreamer> what is it daviddelikat?
23:18 <+perlDreamer> I'm much more qualified to answre those kinds of questions.
23:18 < daviddelikat> I'm filling in a value with a coma list of numbers
23:18 < daviddelikat> and i only get the fisr one in the output
23:19 <+perlDreamer> can you paste some code?
23:19 < daviddelikat> i think i need to quote my replacement string because it is getting parsed incoerrectly
23:19 <+perlDreamer> if it's 1 line, it's okay to do it in channel
23:19 <@rizen> preaction: i'm not really in favor of a generic http headers control anywhere in webgui
23:19 <@rizen> there's too much of a chance for people to conflict with headers we're already setting
23:20 <@rizen> or may set in the future
23:20 <@rizen> methinks it needs to be dealt with on a case by case basis
23:20 <@rizen> rather than generically
23:20 < daviddelikat> perlDreamer: i think it would take far too much code, I'd have to give you part of a module plus a template
23:20 < daviddelikat> i'll see what i can come up with to demostrate
23:20 <+perlDreamer> daviddelikat, quoting is probably the solution
23:21 < daviddelikat> but where?
23:21 <@Haarg> can you just paste how the macro is being called?
23:21 < daviddelikat> in the template
23:21 <+perlDreamer> the commas need to end up quoted in the macro call, it's probably better to do it in the template
23:21 <+perlDreamer> rather than in the variable
23:21 < daviddelikat> ^International("impression discount","Asset_AdSku",);
23:22 < daviddelikat> so it should look like this:
23:22 <+perlDreamer> ^International(impression discount,Asset_AdSku,"");
23:22 < daviddelikat> ^International("impression discount","Asset_AdSku","");
23:22 < daviddelikat> is there an echo in here?
23:22 < daviddelikat> :)
23:22 <+perlDreamer> except you have extra, redundant quotes around the key and namespace
23:22 <+perlDreamer> :)
23:23 <+MrHairgrease> daviddelikat what does your string look like
23:23 < daviddelikat> so i don't need quotes around the space?
23:23 <+MrHairgrease> ie. the 18n text
23:23 <+perlDreamer> no
23:23 <+perlDreamer> only around commas
23:23 <@rizen> daviddelikat: what are you trying to do exactly?
23:23 <+perlDreamer> and around quotes that need to be escaped, maybe
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23:24 < daviddelikat> trying to fill in a coma list of numbers: 100000,1000000,1000000 into an internationaized string
23:24 < daviddelikat> i think i have the solution
23:24 <@rizen> don't use the international macro
23:24 <@rizen> that's the solution
23:25 <@rizen> my $text = $i18n->get('something');
23:25 <@rizen> my $var->{whatever} = sprintf $text, @values
23:25 <@rizen> put it right into your template
23:25 <@rizen> most international labels shouldn't do that
23:26 <+MrHairgrease> i thought labels weren't going into tmpl_var anymore
23:26 <+perlDreamer> right
23:26 <@rizen> but in this case...it's not just a label
23:26 <+perlDreamer> The guy who wrote WebGUI said that
23:26 <@rizen> it's formatted
23:26 <@Haarg> the international macro uses sprintf
23:26 <@rizen> and doing what you're doing invites all sorts of problems
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23:28 <@rizen> my concerns are these:
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23:29 <@rizen> 1) if you start putting a bunch of sprintfs into the a macro like this
23:29 <@rizen> the user may forget to close the macro
23:29 <@rizen> because the typing is going on and on and on and on and on
23:29 <@rizen> 2) it's hard to read
23:29 <@rizen> if it was just one thing
23:29 <@rizen> then i'd be ok
23:30 <@rizen> but here' we're talking about a list of things
23:30 <@Haarg> if you were trying to plug a string that happens to have commas in it into an international string, using quotes would be the way to go
23:30 <@Haarg> but it seems like your use case isn't quite that simple
23:30 <@Haarg> as rizen says, you are dealing with a list
23:30 <@rizen> since this is a complex case
23:31 <@rizen> i think an exception should be made to the no i18n exposed as template variables
23:31 < daviddelikat> it is just a string that happens to have comas in it, but I'm already changing it so...
23:32 <+perlDreamer> should we pull that feature out of the International macro so that it doesn't do sprintf anymore?
23:32 <@rizen> no it can do that for small jobs
23:32 <@rizen> but in daviddelikat's case, it could be a nearly infinite list of stuff being passed in
23:33 <@rizen> daviddelikat: this is for the discount thing in ad sku, right?
23:33 < daviddelikat> yes
23:33 <+perlDreamer> well, let's define rules, then throw them up on the wiki so that everyone can have access to them
23:33 <@rizen> yeah, the way tavisto would use that thing, it will have at least 30 discount rules in it
23:35 <@rizen> perlDreamer: the rule is: Don't put i18n into template variables, unless some sort of very complex formatting needs to happen to the i18n before output.
23:35 <@rizen> that's as specific as i would want the rule to be
23:35 <+perlDreamer> okay-doke
23:35 <@rizen> unless you wanted to say 99% of the time it should not go in
23:36 <@rizen> and if you want to put it in, then check with rizen
23:36 <@rizen> =)
23:36 <+perlDreamer> ;)
23:41 <@tavisto> who dares distrub the wizard?
23:42 <@tavisto> disturb even
23:43 * perlDreamer waves an iPhone at Tavis, and soothes the angry marketing wizard
23:43 <@tavisto> ah much better now
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--- Day changed Thu Mar 19 2009
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00:06 <@tavisto> well how about that... The Republic of Croatia uses WebGUI for their homepage and it's like a super wiki site http://www.hr
00:07 <@preaction> nice
00:07 <@tavisto> Rizen, did you know about that site?
00:07 <@preaction> i like it, it's simple and straightforward
00:07 <@tavisto> I found it on the WebGUI Facebook group.. on the wall
00:07 <@tavisto> yeah it's pretty slick preaction
00:08 <@rizen> nope
00:08 <@preaction> If I were to make a form control that would allow async uploading of files, or add async uploading to the existing control, where should I store them?
00:08 <@tavisto> very web 2.0ish.. would be cool to have a bunch more of these types of designs
00:08 <@preaction> can i make it so I can get Temp storage locations after I have lost the reference to them?
00:09 <@rizen> are these files that would not become assets?
00:09 <@rizen> so they are not file/image assets?
00:09 <@preaction> they could become assets, but that is not a requirement
00:10 <@rizen> because there's a mechanism for that already
00:10 <@rizen> like the wiki does
00:10 <@rizen> but other than that
00:10 <@rizen> i think the way to do it is this
00:10 <@preaction> the attachment thing, i suppose i should see how that works. it doesn't rely on the RichEditor?
00:11 <@rizen> upload them to a temp storage location, and have the ajax return the storage id
00:11 <@rizen> then pass the storage id along with the form when it gets submitted
00:11 <@rizen> yeah, that attachment thing in the wiki has nothing to do with the rich editor
00:12 <@preaction> yeah, that was the plan. but createTemp storage locations cannot be instantiated after you lose the reference. and i'd prefer to not make a "getTemp(storageId)" because I shouldn't care if the storage location is temp or not after it's been created
00:12 <@preaction> i can figure out a way to fix that, of course
00:14 <@rizen> you could just pass in a prefix as a third param to get()
00:14 <@rizen> i hadn't really thought about temp storage not being able to be instanciated once you lost reference to it
00:14 <@rizen> that is not by design
00:14 <@rizen> just a case i hadn't considered when i designed the api
00:15 <@preaction> yeah, i didn't think of it either till someone came in here with a weird problem using Storage
00:15 <+perlDreamer> it isn't possible to find any storage once you lose the storageId?
00:16 <@rizen> he has the storage id
00:16 <@rizen> it's just that he can't create a reference to the object
00:16 <@rizen> cuz it's a temp storage id
00:16 <@rizen> not a real one
00:20 <@rizen> preaction: i'm going to say that fixing the api to support that is the way to do it
00:20 <@rizen> i'm going to need that for a project i'm working on here shortly too
00:20 <@rizen> so do it
00:20 <@preaction> ok
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00:28 * perlDreamer is off running, bbl
00:33 * deafferret starts chewing
00:59 < carogray> bout to get off the bus, but is there something obvious about the way to email everyone in a group every time we post something new on a collaboration system?
01:00 -!- s4eek [n=charles@andc-fw1.exploreos.com] has quit []
01:00 < carogray> we have a group - mlri staff should I subscribe them to the CS?
01:01 < carogray> if so how?
01:11 < carogray> oop! we're here.. will try back later.
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02:13 <@preaction> patspam: starting 7.7 off with a bang, eh?
02:14 <+patspam> heh, you mean all those commits?
02:14 <@preaction> the RFEs yeah
02:15 <+patspam> yeah, it's unresolved feature freeze tension
02:15 <@preaction> improvements to the interfaces for those parts are awesome
02:15 <@preaction> heh
02:16 <+patspam> 7.7 is going to rock :)
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02:19 <+patspam> damn you Haarg, i now have a drug dependency
02:19 <+patspam> it's called wgd
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02:39 < daviddelikat> can anybody see what is wrong with this code: http://webgui.pastebin.com/d3b4cac4d it won't compile but it doesn't give any errors either
02:39 < daviddelikat> this is the error im getting http://webgui.pastebin.com/d637e041c
02:44 <+patspam> damn, i think i just spent half an hour scratching my head about getLineage because I was spelling descendants as descendents
02:44 * patspam thinks about adding alternative spelling warnings to wg
02:47 <@rizen> use base WebGUI::Crud;
02:47 <@rizen> needs quotes
02:48 < daviddelikat> thanks
02:49 <+patspam> how about: wgd lint --find-alternative-spellings
02:57 <@preaction> perhaps make a Perl::Critic::Policy::WebGUI::AlternateSpellings?
02:58 < daviddelikat> what is the prescribed method for creating a 'crud' table?
02:59 <+patspam> preaction: yeah good idea
03:00 <@preaction> daviddelikat: don't they have a way to make themselves?
03:00 < daviddelikat> well, there is a crud_create table, function, but how/when shoudl it be called?
03:01 <@preaction> you should make a "sub install" that calls that and does anything else you need
03:01 <@preaction> then use "sbin/installClass.pl" to install it
03:01 <@preaction> alternatively, you can fix it so that Crud.pm has install, isInstalled, and uninstall
03:01 < daviddelikat> ok that makes sense...
03:01 < daviddelikat> than ks
03:02 <@preaction> so that installClass.pl Just Works
03:03 <@preaction> daviddelikat: more info on installClass.pl :http://www.plainblack.com/pr/staff/blog/installclass.pl---how-to-create-install-scripts-for-your-webgui-plugins#lPZHo7xJFBkBXdQa6Y28_g
03:04 <@rizen> daviddelikat:
03:04 <@rizen> don't use preaction's advice here
03:04 <@rizen> preaction: this is for the core
03:05 <@preaction> oh, that's different
03:05 <@rizen> daviddelikat: it should go in the upgrade script in the core
03:05 < daviddelikat> ok
03:05 <@rizen> upgrade_7.7.1-7.7.2.pl
03:05 <@rizen> or whatever
03:05 < daviddelikat> ok
03:07 <+patspam> rizen: any date set for the first 7.7 beta?
03:07 <@rizen> tomorrow
03:07 <+patspam> seriously?
03:08 <@rizen> yup
03:08 * patspam hugs jt
03:08 <+patspam> sweet!
03:10 <+patspam> means i don't need to do an early upgrade my beta site with trunk code, that would have been annoying to reconcile later
03:10 <@rizen> and thursdays from now on
03:10 <+patspam> awesome
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03:55 < CIA-46> WebGUI: daviddelikat * r9896 /branch/adSkuProject/lib/WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): yet another check point
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04:30 < knowmad> should it be possible to edit an existing entry in a Data Form without creating a new entry?
04:31 <@rizen> yes
04:31 < knowmad> in 7.5.40, i'm finding that when a user edits an existing entry, a new entry gets added; the entryId gets changed so i have no way to find the latest entry
04:34 < knowmad> shall i file a bug report?
04:35 <+perlDreamer> no
04:35 < knowmad> i know this is no longer a stable version so am unsure how you handle these reports; i presume you still want them...
04:35 <+perlDreamer> because we're not patching 7.5 anymore :)
04:35 < knowmad> oh, is this a known issue?
04:35 <@rizen> knowmad
04:35 < knowmad> ok, that anwsers my other question
04:35 <@rizen> just try to replicate the problem on the demo server
04:35 <@rizen> if it still exists
04:35 <@rizen> then report it
04:36 <@rizen> then you can backport our patch to your version
04:36 <@rizen> or upgrade
04:36 <+perlDreamer> could this be part of version control for the dataform?
04:36 <+perlDreamer> since data entries are JSON collateral now?
04:36 <+perlDreamer> then what's happening would make sense
04:45 < knowmad> working as expected on demo svr
04:46 <@rizen> perhaps then you can just pull the new code down to your old server
04:46 <@rizen> or upgrade to 7.6
04:47 < knowmad> yeah, i'll see about the latter; thanks for the input
04:47 < knowmad> the workaround isn't too bad for now; just have to delete the old entry
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05:05 < elnino> hi all!
05:05 <+perlDreamer> hey, elnino!
05:07 < elnino> soo.... I'm tryin to use wreserver.pl with the --verbose parameter... Does it ever provide "additional information"? my processes are failing and it won't tell me. The logs are a bit cryptic.
05:10 < daviddelikat> is there any setting that turns the shopping cart on and off?
05:10 < knowmad> i've never tried it; can you post your log output from modperl to webgui.pastebin.com?
05:11 < daviddelikat> theres nothing in th error log
05:11 < knowmad> daviddelikat: what version of webgui?
05:11 < knowmad> daviddelikat: that first msg was meant for elnino
05:12 < daviddelikat> k, I'm working an new feature for 7.7
05:12 < daviddelikat> its the Ad Sku
05:13 < daviddelikat> I put everything together to add to the cart but the cart isn't there...
05:13 < elnino> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m24f07b55 - Hi knowmad!
05:14 < knowmad> hey elnino
05:14 < elnino> so this is what i'm doing: I have it running on another machine. On a new machine, I installed the same wre (I thought?) and same version of webgui.
05:14 < elnino> now I'm transfering my config files.
05:15 < elnino> I have a different dbuser and dbpass, and I've updated the conf files on the new server appropriately for that.
05:15 < knowmad> the last line looks like your main problem
05:15 < elnino> knowmad, do you remember me? met you at the conference.
05:15 < knowmad> does that file exist?
05:15 < knowmad> elnino: yes, i do remember
05:15 < elnino> yeh, I know... I looked at line 65. it does exist.
05:16 < knowmad> the file exists and is readable by nobody or whoever is set as the User in your apache config?
05:16 < elnino> oh.. hold on. yes. it exists.. but now I'm looking at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI.pm line 65
05:17 < elnino> I'm missing WebguiRoot.. I must not have installed the same version. =(
05:17 < knowmad> that error being in the modperl log means the directives in your /data/wre/etc/www.testsite.com.modperl configuration is failing
05:18 < knowmad> did you install wre 0.9?
05:19 < elnino> nope.. wre .8.. something =) hold on
05:19 < elnino> .85
05:19 < knowmad> or are you using native apps? i'm surprised to see perl 5.8.8 mentioned in your error log as I thought wre 0.9 was using perl 5.10
05:19 -!- Radix-wrk changed the topic of #webgui to: [ 7.6.15-stable | WRE 0.9 ] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org | Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com/
05:19 < knowmad> i've never seen those first few warnings; just curious
05:20 < elnino> darn. I had .84 on the other. =(
05:20 < knowmad> that one is really buggy
05:20 < elnino> .84 is?
05:20 < knowmad> 0.8.5 is less buggy but still has some issues
05:20 < knowmad> yes 0.8.4 was a bad release as i recall
05:22 < elnino> oh. I use it everywhere. :} now I'm nervous.
05:23 < knowmad> well, read the release notes
05:23 < knowmad> it may have been minor but i just don't recall
05:23 < knowmad> obviously it's working for you
05:24 < elnino> can you do me something?
05:25 < knowmad> what's that?
05:25 < elnino> search your /data/WebGUI/etc conf files for WebguiRoot
05:25 < elnino> according to /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI.pm it's trying to look for it.
05:26 < elnino> I don't have it defined anywhere but in modperl.conf. and that's set correctly.
05:26 <+perlDreamer> daviddelikat: try the Shop tests, one module at a time
05:26 < knowmad> not coming up with anything
05:26 < elnino> hmm. ok. Thanks for looking.
05:26 < knowmad> doesn't that string get removed when wre is installed?
05:27 < knowmad> i mean isn't it supposed to act like a variable?
05:27 < elnino> yep, it's defined as a perl var in /data/wre/etc/modperl.conf
05:31 < elnino> ok.. hmm. what are the permission on your /data/WebGUI mine look like: drwxrwxr-x 8 500 500 4096 Jan 19 23:53 WebGUI on both machines.
05:31 < daviddelikat> perlDreamer: what is Sub/Uplevel.pm?
05:32 < daviddelikat> the cart test is looking for it
05:32 <+perlDreamer> Sub/Uplevel.pm is required for some of the modules that are used in testing.
05:32 <+perlDreamer> if you don't have it, you should install it
05:32 < knowmad> elnino: drwxr-xr-x 4 root root
05:32 <+perlDreamer> it doesn't come with the WRE since it's for dev only
05:33 < elnino> ok. I
05:34 < elnino> 'll keep playing, thanks knowmad
05:34 < knowmad> yw, good luck!
05:35 < elnino> arg.
05:35 < elnino> data directory is a soft link! oh dear.
05:39 < elnino> umm. the search doesn't seem to be working on webgui.org.. is there anyone experiencing this as well? or is this a bad day for me?
05:40 < elnino> site search and wiki search are giving me 500 errrors
05:43 < knowmad> on webgui.org? yeah, i reported a bug about that
05:44 < elnino> ok thanks! knowmad... I have another admin i'm working on this server he has /data already with different permissions and a soft link to another location. So I believe hat is the problem.
05:45 < elnino> however I can't move "his" data directory.
05:45 < elnino> it looks like all I need to modify is preload.perl and the modperl.conf for a different location.. have you done that before?
05:48 < daviddelikat> perlDreamer: well some test failed, but it did not look like anything critical
05:48 <+perlDreamer> all of those tests should pass
05:48 <+perlDreamer> they're checked on each release
05:49 <+perlDreamer> and the coverage varies from module to module, so they won't catch all problems
05:49 <+perlDreamer> but you should have a look at the ones they do
05:49 <+perlDreamer> because that might explain why you're having Cart problems :)
05:50 < daviddelikat> is there an easy way to update my branch from the main code in SVN?
05:50 <+perlDreamer> do you know at which version you branched?
05:50 <+perlDreamer> if so, then
05:50 < daviddelikat> head i think
05:50 <+perlDreamer> that's good. Which version of HEAD?
05:51 <+perlDreamer> the basic command is svn merge -r START:END https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/WebGUI
05:51 <+perlDreamer> where START is where you last branched or merged
05:51 <+perlDreamer> and END is where you want to stop merging
05:51 < daviddelikat> is there any way to tell where I merged from?
05:52 < daviddelikat> sorry branched from
05:52 <+perlDreamer> yes
05:52 <+perlDreamer> I'd use the web interface to find which version you branched.
05:53 < daviddelikat> so i goto http://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/branch/...
05:53 < daviddelikat> and find out what it says
05:54 <+perlDreamer> 9641
05:54 <+perlDreamer> and we're at 9896
05:54 < daviddelikat> where did you get that?
05:55 <+perlDreamer> https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/log/branch/adSkuProject/
05:55 <+perlDreamer> so, svn merge -r 9641:9896 https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/WebGUI
05:55 <+perlDreamer> should do the trick
05:55 < daviddelikat> many thanks
05:55 <+perlDreamer> I don't know how to do that in git
05:55 <+perlDreamer> yw :)
05:55 <+perlDreamer> good luck on the cart
05:55 <+perlDreamer> holler back if you need more help
05:56 < daviddelikat> thanks I hope an update will help
05:57 < daviddelikat> perlDreamer: so when i merge should i use the next version rather than the one i branched from?
05:58 <+perlDreamer> I don't think so
05:58 < daviddelikat> ie 9642 rather than 9641
05:58 <+perlDreamer> I did that for the StoryManager branch, and I missed some stuff
05:58 <+perlDreamer> so I'd stick with 9641
05:58 < daviddelikat> ok thanks
06:14 * perlDreamer goes to bed
06:14 <+perlDreamer> 'nite all :)
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06:16 < knowmad> nite
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06:28 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9897 /branch/WebGUI_Story/t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm: Add an easy way to access a famous date.
06:28 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9898 /branch/WebGUI_Story/t/Asset/Wobject/StoryArchive.t: Refactor out used SQL statements into a statement handle.
06:28 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9899 /branch/WebGUI_Story/lib/WebGUI/Help/Asset_StoryTopic.pm: Skeletal help for StoryTopic.
06:28 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9900 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (3 files in 3 dirs):
06:28 < CIA-46> WebGUI: i18 label for StoryTopic help.
06:28 < CIA-46> WebGUI: View methods for StoryTopic, with tests for template variables and amount of data returned.
06:28 < CIA-46> WebGUI: daviddelikat * r9901 /branch/adSkuProject/ (156 files in 47 dirs): merged with HEAD and other interesting changes
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07:00 < CIA-46> WebGUI: patspam * r9902 /WebGUI/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt: Added completed SDH rfes to changelog
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08:24 <+patspam> anyone awake?
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09:19 < dapperedodo> of course I am awake
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13:14 <+BartJol> plainhao: it looks like 1 forum post is being posted agian and again
13:15 <+BartJol> looks like it needs fixing
13:15 <+BartJol> goodmorning btw
13:15 <@plainhao> oh, good morning, bart
13:17 <+BartJol> but I'm off to lunch
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14:04 < BartJo1> plainhao: already some idea about the reposting of the forum post?
14:04 < BartJo1> or haven't you been able to lookkat it?
14:04 <@plainhao> no, could you point me to the url?
14:04 <@plainhao> looking at client stuff this morning
14:05 <@plainhao> well, every morning, actually :)
14:05 < BartJo1> http://www.webgui.org/webgui/dev/discuss/re-paypal-gateway11111111111111111111111111111116#id8c9T35qaL9c7vrYi7CTO_Q
14:05 <@plainhao> thanks!
14:05 < BartJo1> that's one of the post url's
14:06 <@plainhao> oh
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14:10 < BartJo1> you see the problem?
14:10 -!- BartJo1 is now known as BartJol
14:10 <@plainhao> yes
14:11 <@plainhao> heh, i'm clueless :)
14:11 <@plainhao> going to have to pass it onto my senior cohorts
14:11 < BartJol> it looks like a workflow that has finished, but doesn't recogineses it and runs agian
14:11 <@plainhao> looks like it
14:13 <@plainhao> did you report this?
14:13 <@plainhao> well, besides here :)
14:13 < BartJol> no, not yet
14:13 < BartJol> I will
14:16 < BartJol> mmm, my post can't be posted
14:16 < BartJol> ah it, is
14:17 < BartJol> 3 times :)
14:17 <@plainhao> ok, perfect example then :)
14:18 < BartJol> indeed
14:18 < BartJol> and lot's of karma
14:18 <@plainhao> weird, anyway i'm usually fully booked on a client, and they don't trust me enough to fix the wg.org site :)
14:19 < BartJol> yeah but you are "one of the new guys"
14:19 < BartJol> I understood that you get that access after you've met the Dutch team
14:21 < BartJol> which is a small step for a men, but a giant leap for PB staff
14:36 <@plainhao> indeed, meeting the dutch team is a great honor
14:38 * MrHairgrease only knows how to take big step
14:38 <+MrHairgrease> s
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14:50 < jdanpl> Little question about upgrade WebGUI. We upgarded a couple sites last week. And we noticed that on assets manager there is no panel for edit functions like new folder, etc. Does the removal of the panel was intended to?
14:53 <+BartJol> no, it was a bug jdanpl
14:53 <+BartJol> it is reported somewhere on the site
14:53 <+BartJol> webgui.org
14:54 < CIA-46> WebGUI: translation * r9903 /translations/Polish/Polish/ (27 files): Update from translation server
15:02 < jdanpl> I opended http://www.plainblack.com/bugs page. But "Open Tickets" list is empty. It seems that there are no reports :-)
15:03 <+BartJol> I see the bugs normally
15:03 <+BartJol> and this link? http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/9984
15:04 <+BartJol> it is javascript, I believe
15:04 <+BartJol> yui
15:06 < jdanpl> This link http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/9984 I see ok. But no elements are on "Open Tickets" list.
15:06 <+BartJol> and javascript is enabled?
15:07 < jdanpl> Yes, But I'll check again
15:07 <+BartJol> mm
15:07 <+BartJol> wat browser?
15:08 <+BartJol> what
15:08 < jdanpl> Empty :-(. Linux, Firefox 3.0.7
15:08 <+BartJol> mmm, windows ff 3.0.7
15:09 < jdanpl> I'll try on Windows
15:10 < jdanpl> On Windows list works correctly
15:12 <+BartJol> mmm
15:12 < jdanpl> Sorry, I had some lock on NoScript
15:12 <+BartJol> :)
15:12 < jdanpl> No, list work's on Linux too
15:13 <+BartJol> so everytjing ok again?
15:13 < jdanpl> yes, yes, thx
15:13 <+BartJol> except my spelling
15:13 < jdanpl> my too
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15:21 <+BartJol> morning rizen, looks like patspam hijacked the webgui.org site to get enormous amounts of karma
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15:35 <@rizen> looking into it
15:36 <+BartJol> looks like they are not in the thread
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16:25 < juan1> i have a problem with email in my sites
16:26 < juan1> in the table mailqueue i have many records
16:28 < juan1> how can i check that is working well?
16:28 < juan1> spectre is ok
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16:52 <+perlDreamer> rough morning, guys
16:52 <+perlDreamer> hang in there
16:52 <+perlDreamer> and holler if I can help
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17:24 <+perlDreamer> bbs
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17:33 < carogray> hi guys
17:33 < carogray> with upgrade from 7.5 to 7.6 did something in the way navigation assets work change?
17:34 <+danny_mk> did you read the gotcha.txt?
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17:34 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, what's your estimated time for release today?
17:34 <+perlDreamer> There's 1 bug I want to commit
17:34 <@Haarg> probably later
17:35 <+perlDreamer> I'll do it now then, and get it out of the way :)
17:35 <@Haarg> what kind of change are you seeing carogray?
17:35 < carogray> danny_mk:nope only the warning - things to look out for when upgrading to 7.6
17:35 <+danny_mk> hmmm... let me take a look at mine
17:41 <+perlDreamer> MrHairgrease, who is "serif"?
17:42 <+MrHairgrease> i think it's an employee of knowmad'd
17:42 <+MrHairgrease> 's
17:43 < carogray> Haarg: just checked changelogs (assume these are the gotcha files) and I see stuff that makes me think the problem I am seeing is "fixed" however ...
17:43 < carogray> the nav I think is calculating the level of the start point incorrectly
17:43 < carogray> uuuh.
17:44 < carogray> css says display L1 with blue and bold
17:44 < carogray> L2 indented red underlined
17:44 < carogray> sorry -
17:44 < carogray> let me try this again
17:45 < carogray> in the nav template we have starting point type: relative to current URL
17:45 < carogray> starting point: ./ (0)
17:45 < carogray> and relatives to include are descendants
17:45 < carogray> descendant eng point ./a/b/ (+2)
17:46 < carogray> now when I look at the source code what I expect to be an L1 in the nav is in fact L0
17:46 < carogray> nav hasn't been touched in 2 years
17:46 <+perlDreamer> carogray, there was a bug fixed in the Nav back in 7.6
17:46 < carogray> CSS hasn't been worked on in 2 months since before upgrade
17:46 <+perlDreamer> rel depth was not calculated correctly
17:47 < carogray> other 2 navs - which are both relative to root and therefore absolute are both working find
17:47 < carogray> fine
17:47 <+perlDreamer> there have been lots of posts in the forums about that
17:47 <+perlDreamer> so I'd search there to find out what to do
17:47 <+perlDreamer> I think the gist of it is to shift the CSS definitions by 1
17:48 < carogray> so this "bug" is permanent?
17:48 < carogray> it looked to me that the bug was fixed - we are in 7.6.15 now
17:49 < carogray> also are we talking webgui forum or PB support forum?
17:50 <+perlDreamer> webgui forum
17:50 < carogray> ok thanks
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17:54 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, my bug is committed and I'm clear.
17:54 <+perlDreamer> I may have to change the attribution because a patch was supplied
17:54 <+perlDreamer> but that can happen after the fact
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18:03 < carogray> ok - so it looks as though the bugFIX is kind of what causes the problems. Rogier says to alter the level of the li in the CSS just as you, perlDreamer suggested. I think there is one other problem in this whole nav thing too, but I have to figure out what it is. I think his post http://www.webgui.org/web_design_templates_and_themes/nav-code-not-closing-list#cLyf_CwjdTTllvsgZqM-0A answers that one also...thanks perlDreamer AGAIN:-D
18:06 <+perlDreamer> you're welcome, carogray. Glad that I could help you.
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18:14 <+perlDreamer> Did WebGUI 7.6.16 get released on Tuesday?
18:15 <+BartJol> don't think so
18:15 <+BartJol> I don't see it released at all
18:15 <+perlDreamer> The SVN entries point to a release
18:16 <+perlDreamer> but the changelog and WebGUI.pm still say .16
18:16 <+BartJol> ah
18:16 <+perlDreamer> I'll leave this fix in at .16
18:16 <+BartJol> mostly haarg knows such stuff
18:17 <@preaction> say haarg's name three times and he shall appear!
18:17 * perlDreamer guesses that Haarg is quite busy with support right now
18:17 <+perlDreamer> webgui.org is wonky
18:17 <+perlDreamer> and mysql 5.1 headaches
18:17 < carogray> perlDreamer - really fixed! Yeah thanks so much again - you are a v. good hand holder - back to work
18:18 <@rizen> in what way is webgui.org wonky?
18:18 <+BartJol> so you say it for the third time
18:18 <+perlDreamer> The list of recent discussion on the discussion page is off
18:18 <+perlDreamer> there are bugs posted about multiple post posting issues
18:19 <@rizen> that's all due to problems that occured this morning
18:19 <@rizen> those are all fixed
18:19 <+perlDreamer> oh, okay
18:20 <+perlDreamer> although I still only see 6 recent discussions on the discuss page
18:20 <@rizen> yeah
18:20 <@rizen> that's because the other ones are "deleted"
18:20 <+perlDreamer> oh
18:20 <@rizen> but the way the recent discussion macro works
18:20 <@rizen> is it looks at the 100 most recent posts
18:21 <@rizen> and since most of that 100 is deleted
18:21 <@rizen> it won't show
18:21 <@rizen> it's written in a weird way so that it renders very quickly
18:21 <+perlDreamer> makes sense, it's used a lot
18:21 <@rizen> and it has to parse a crap ton of data
18:22 <@preaction> at least it's an English crapton instead of a Metric crapton
18:24 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@h19-afsc.ded.indra.com] has joined #webgui
18:24 -!- mode/#webgui [+v cap10morgan] by ChanServ
18:25 -!- dionak [n=dionak@97.66.185.250] has joined #webgui
18:25 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9904 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Add i18n for the Gallery and Album.
18:25 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9905 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Backporting new Gallery* i18n.
18:25 < CIA-46> WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r9906 /WebGUI/www/extras/wobject/Survey/administersurvey.js: removed traces
18:25 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9907 /WebGUI/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt: Update patch attribution
18:25 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9908 /branch/WebGUI_7.6/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt: Update patch attribution.
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19:01 <+perlDreamer> Stop!
19:01 <+perlDreamer> Template time
19:01 <+BartJol> what will you be templating?
19:01 <+perlDreamer> The Story Topic asset
19:01 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9909 /branch/WebGUI_Story/lib/WebGUI/ (Help/Asset_StoryTopic.pm i18n/English/Asset_StoryTopic.pm): Add Help, missing help titles to i18n.
19:01 < CIA-46> WebGUI: doug * r9910 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/ (_NewAsset.skeleton Wobject/_NewWobject.skeleton): updating skeletons. run through perltidy. added note about Installable aspect. removed old install routines
19:01 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9911 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (5 files in 5 dirs):
19:01 < CIA-46> WebGUI: Add template field to StoryTopic. The same template will be shared between both modes.
19:01 < CIA-46> WebGUI: Add top story variables, and tests.
19:01 < CIA-46> WebGUI: doug * r9912 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/_NewWobject.skeleton: fixed error in new skeleton
19:01 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9913 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Add a template variable to tell if the Topic is viewed standalone by URL, or not.
19:01 < CIA-46> WebGUI: martin * r9914 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Help/Asset_Collaboration.pm: Fixed a typo
19:03 <+perlDreamer> MrHairgrease, Haarg fixed that bug a few days ago in 7.6, so no need to backport it
19:05 <+perlDreamer> oh
19:05 <+perlDreamer> we need a WGDev commandline asset browser
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19:15 <@Haarg> i was just thinking the same thing perlDreamer
19:15 <@Haarg> wgd ls or something
19:16 <+MrHairgrease> I'm having huge troubles with Class::InsideOut under modperl
19:16 <@rizen> and i was just thinking that you guys are insane
19:16 <+MrHairgrease> it has to do with my chartmagick project
19:16 <+MrHairgrease> i'll pastebin some stuff
19:18 <+perlDreamer> aw, you wouldn't have given us a commit bit if we were sane
19:22 <+MrHairgrease> the code is here: http://github.com/martink/chartmagick/tree/master
19:23 <+MrHairgrease> when I enable only the WebGUI modules this is printed into the logs during modperl restart: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m2e15a855
19:23 <+MrHairgrease> however, when I also enable the Chart::Magick modules, this is being output instead: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m135138aa
19:23 <+MrHairgrease> anybody has a clue as to what's happening here?
19:24 <@preaction> MrHairgrease: you're calling wreservice.pl --restart modperl from the wrong place
19:24 <@preaction> cd; wreservice.pl --restart modperl <- see what happens then
19:25 <@Haarg> how are you 'enabling' the modules?
19:25 <@preaction> oh, wait, no. you have /data/custom/chartmagick AND /data/custom/chartmagick/WebGUI/lib in your preload.custom
19:25 <+MrHairgrease> preaction, i restart apache just like i always do
19:25 <+MrHairgrease> haarg, what do you mean by enabling?
19:26 <@preaction> so Module::Find sees both "WebGUI::lib::WebGUI::Chart::Magick" and "WebGUI::Chart::Magick"
19:26 <@Haarg> seems like you have the wrong thing in preload.custom like preaction says
19:27 <+MrHairgrease> oh crap
19:27 <+MrHairgrease> yeah just found that out
19:27 <+MrHairgrease> that seems to help things
19:27 <+MrHairgrease> pff
19:27 <@Haarg> and those redefine warnings can definitely lead to problems with Class::InsideOut
19:27 <+MrHairgrease> that has cost ten years of my life
19:27 <+MrHairgrease> yeah sure
19:27 <+perlDreamer> what's chartmagick, and how's it different from Chart::Magick?
19:28 <+MrHairgrease> it's the same thing
19:28 <+MrHairgrease> basically it's the old graphing system torn out of webgui made into a capan module
19:28 <+MrHairgrease> s
19:28 <+perlDreamer> cool
19:29 <+perlDreamer> and free :)
19:29 <+MrHairgrease> oh
19:29 <+MrHairgrease> and much better
19:29 <+MrHairgrease> thanks for the help
19:37 <+MrHairgrease> what
19:37 <+MrHairgrease> a
19:37 <+MrHairgrease> stupid
19:38 <+MrHairgrease> mistake
19:38 <+MrHairgrease> fixing the directory structure solved all my problems.
19:38 <+MrHairgrease> time to go now
19:38 <+MrHairgrease> bye!
19:38 * perlDreamer volunteers to make all of MrHairgrease's stupid mistakes
19:38 <+perlDreamer> to save time and effort
19:38 <+perlDreamer> and because I'm very good at them
19:39 * perlDreamer goes to the gym
19:39 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9915 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Add a StoryTopic template
19:39 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9916 /branch/WebGUI_Story/ (5 files in 5 dirs): Add top story subtitle to m