--- Log opened Thu Jan 01 00:00:54 2009
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00:25 < daviddelikat> anybody know what exactly causes the blue site maintenance screen? and how to turn it off?
00:25 < daviddelikat> http://delikat.homeip.net:8080/
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00:58 <@preaction> daviddelikat: it's in the site settings. check sbin/maintenanceMode.pl to see how it works (and how to turn it off)
01:10 < daviddelikat> thanks I figured it out...
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03:09 < CIA-45> WebGUI: colin * r9122 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Backported old fix for Gallery pagination and layout in IE.
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18:27 < CIA-45> WebGUI: colin * r9123 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): 
18:27 < CIA-45> WebGUI: Fix a bug where the Album would try to delete assets that do not exist
18:27 < CIA-45> WebGUI: from its cache. This would cause various operations to fail, including
18:27 < CIA-45> WebGUI: the Asset Manager.
18:27 < CIA-45> WebGUI: colin * r9124 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): 
18:27 < CIA-45> WebGUI: Forward port Album cache delete/DESTROY issue with non-existant
18:28 < CIA-45> WebGUI: keys in the cache.
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01:15 < CIA-45> WebGUI: jt * r9125 /experimental/Automat/sbin/migration/ (3 files): extra migration scripts
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03:02 < CIA-45> WebGUI: jt * r9126 /experimental/Automat/ (12 files in 4 dirs): 
03:02 < CIA-45> WebGUI: added recent changes
03:02 < CIA-45> WebGUI: added stats
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04:09 < CIA-45> WebGUI: jt * r9127 /experimental/Automat/lib/Automat/ (Site.pm Server.pm): added billing notification
04:09 < CIA-45> WebGUI: jt * r9128 /experimental/Automat/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Automat.pm: rearrange some things
04:09 < CIA-45> WebGUI: jt * r9129 /experimental/Automat/ (2 files in 2 dirs): 
04:09 < CIA-45> WebGUI: more rearranging
04:09 < CIA-45> WebGUI: update notification
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08:54 < CIA-45> WebGUI: colin * r9130 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/Help.pm: Fix a typo in the POD for Operation/Help.
08:54 < CIA-45> WebGUI: colin * r9131 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/International.pm: Add more characters that are legal in i18n keys.
08:54 < CIA-45> WebGUI: colin * r9132 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (i18n/English/Asset_Matrix.pm Help/Asset_MatrixListing.pm): Fix missing Help docs in the Matrix.
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11:30 < SynQ> hey there BOB
11:30 < SynQ> happy new year
11:30 < SynQ> to all the guys at alphamega
11:30 < SynQ> from all the guys at procolix
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12:00 < AMH_bob> Thank you very much!
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17:59 < danny_mk> happy new year everyone
18:00 <+perlDreamer> Happy new year, danny_mk!
18:09 < danny_mk> OK, got a question about the permission system.  This ticket: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/can-see-edit-tab-even-tho-i-am-not-logged-in shows it as resolved
18:09 < danny_mk> however, I seem to have problems with the Visitor account having edit access to the wiki even when I have assigned a private group to the wiki
18:09 <+perlDreamer> okay
18:10 <+perlDreamer> which version of WebGUI?
18:10 <+perlDreamer> and 2nd question, can you make a demo site do this?
18:11 < danny_mk> 	7.5.34-stable
18:11 < danny_mk> Hmmm... I will upgrade to latest now
18:12 <+perlDreamer> yeah, that bug was fixed in 7.5.35
18:15 <+perlDreamer> danny_mk, almost all (> 90%) of all bugs have the bug id in the changelog for easy searching
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18:20 <+perlDreamer> Happy New Year, dionak.
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18:30 < danny_mk> I looked through all the current bugs and there is no permission problem listed
18:30 <+perlDreamer> it's been closed
18:31 < danny_mk> I upgraded to 7.5.37-stable and the visitor user still has edit capabilities on the Wiki pages and can see content placed on a private group
18:31 <+perlDreamer> okay, let me setup a 7.5.37 site
18:32 < danny_mk> you know the weird thing is that my upgraded site (been up 4 years) has no problem with permissions, the site I am having problems with is a new install
18:33 <+perlDreamer> hmmm...
18:36 < danny_mk> The visitor on this new site has a bunch of "Pending versions" Visitor / 10/20/2008 8:30 am (Autotag)
18:36 < danny_mk> frustrating, but I don't want to look into the code, way too much work :-(
18:36 <+perlDreamer> I think I may know the problem
18:37 <+perlDreamer> I confirmed that an upgraded site works okay
18:37 <+perlDreamer> now trying a new site
18:43 <+perlDreamer> the problem is a package that didn't seem to get into the 7.5.35 release
18:43 < danny_mk> OK.  I also tried a new site at:  http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1230913687_975/home/wiki-test/
18:44 < danny_mk> and it seems to have the right behavior
18:44 < danny_mk> do you have a patch?
18:44 <+perlDreamer> I can show you where to get it
18:44 < danny_mk> cool
18:48 <+perlDreamer> this URL should get you the updated template that will hide the edit tab unless you can edit the wiki page
18:48 <+perlDreamer> https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/checkout/branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/upgrades/packages-7.5.38/default-wiki-page.wgpkg?rev=9106
18:49 <+perlDreamer> just import that package and all should be well
18:50 <+perlDreamer> and the problem itself will be fixed in 7.5.38
18:56 < danny_mk> Hmmm... that will work for the wiki, but what about page permissions?
18:57 <+perlDreamer> I don't understand.  Are you saying that Visitor is also allowed to view pages that he should not?
18:57 < danny_mk> yes, on this new site it does
18:58 < danny_mk> I tried the test website above and it does not have this problem
18:58 < danny_mk> let me try a couple of other things and I will let you know how it turns out
18:58 < danny_mk> thank you for your help
18:58 <+perlDreamer> Just to double check.  Create a new site (no upgrades).  Add a wiki, set privacy to only Registered Users.  Create a wiki page.  Log out, view wiki as Visitor and visit the page.
19:45 < danny_mk> Damn, setting up a new site on the server works perfect
19:45 <+perlDreamer> I hate infrequent, random bugs
19:46 < danny_mk> I have to dig into this issue deeper, I have put a lot of content on my established site
19:46 < danny_mk> don't want to do that again
19:46 <+perlDreamer> if it was a permissions issue, then version control will save you
19:46 <+perlDreamer> just delete any questionable versions
19:46 <+perlDreamer> if it was a setup issue, you can use the AssetManager to change all the values at once
19:46 <+perlDreamer> I don't think you're at too much risk
19:47 < danny_mk> Well, I aways do a full backup of the database and directory when I upgrade
19:48 < danny_mk> thank you for your help, at least now I know it is not WebGUI but an issue with that particular installation
19:48 <+perlDreamer> if you need more help, just holler
19:48 < danny_mk> thank you.  later...
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20:46 <+BartJol> happy newyear!
20:46 <+perlDreamer> Happy New Year, BartJol!
20:47 <+BartJol> tnx
20:47 <+BartJol> had a nice evening?
20:48 <+perlDreamer> Yes
20:48 <+perlDreamer> Went to a friend's house with wife and kids and watched Kung Fu Panda until late.
20:48 <+perlDreamer> What did you do?
20:48 <+BartJol> I was in the Belgium woods, something with a lot of beer, must be surprising ;)
20:49 <+perlDreamer> what, you _AND_ beer?  No....
20:49 <+BartJol> We were with some friends
20:49 <+perlDreamer> you __AND__ friends and beer?
20:49 <+BartJol> I know, it's irresponsiible
20:49 <+BartJol> we only broke 5 glasses
20:51 <+BartJol> yesterday we spend getting rid of our hangovers, I didn't know hangover were like chins: you can have multiple of both
20:52 <+perlDreamer> it's just your liver and brain trying to get even
20:53 <+BartJol> have to go, there's food!
20:53  * BartJol is eatinf
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22:08 < CIA-45> WebGUI: colin * r9133 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): Safe handling for Image form fields in the editThing field preview.
22:08 < CIA-45> WebGUI: colin * r9134 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): Fix preview of Image fields in the editThing screen.
22:08 < CIA-45> WebGUI: colin * r9135 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm: Thingy i18n for edit, delete buttons created in code.
22:08 < CIA-45> WebGUI: colin * r9136 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm: i18n Edit and Delete buttons created in code.
22:37 < CIA-45> WebGUI: translation * r9137 /translations/ (165 files in 3 dirs): Update from translation server
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23:36 < CIA-45> WebGUI: colin * r9138 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (Form/Attachments.pm i18n/English/WebGUI.pm): i18n the Attachments Form control
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00:26 < CIA-45> WebGUI: colin * r9139 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (i18n/English/Asset_Calendar.pm Asset/Wobject/Calendar.pm): Calendar i18n
00:26 < CIA-45> WebGUI: colin * r9140 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Shop/Transaction.pm: I18n'ed a submit button in the manage transactions screen.
00:26 < CIA-45> WebGUI: colin * r9141 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Shop/Transaction.pm: Fix a syntax error made in the i18n of the search button.
00:26 < CIA-45> WebGUI: colin * r9142 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Only resize photos if they are larger than the Gallery resolutions.
00:26 < CIA-45> WebGUI: colin * r9143 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Backport gallery photo resolutions fix.
00:26 <+perlDreamer> patspam, I'm not sure that "Send Queued Email Messages Every 5 Minutes" is any better than "Delete temp files older than 24 hours"
00:28 < patspam> hmm and i guess "daily/weekly/month maintenance" is pretty bad too
00:29 <+perlDreamer> yeah, as preconfigured, default, comes with WebGUI they work okay, since what they say is what they do
00:29 <+perlDreamer> but if they're reconfigured by the user then they could be misleading
00:29 <+perlDreamer> however, they could also edit the title at the same time
00:29 < patspam> yeah, feel free to close that bug, i was just being pedantic
00:30 <+perlDreamer> okay
00:30 <+perlDreamer> it's been a weird day for bugs
00:30 <+perlDreamer> Found a bug in Data::Dumper
00:31 < patspam> ouch
00:31 <+perlDreamer> it's just cosmetic.
00:31 <+perlDreamer> it will alternately encode 8-bit characters as control characters, or as \x escapes
00:33 < patspam> this made me smile: http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/archives/2009/01/ie6_on_the_way.html
00:34 <+perlDreamer> any way we can extend that trend to IE*? ;)
00:34 < patspam> if only!
00:44 <@Haarg> perlDreamer, you have an example of that Data::Dumper issue?
00:45 <+perlDreamer> sure
00:45 <+perlDreamer> I'll email it to you.
00:45 <@Haarg> thanks
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00:46 <+perlDreamer> it just alternates between literal 8-bit characters, and 8-bit characters encoded as hex escapes.
00:46 <+perlDreamer> the text works fine in both cases, but it's weird
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00:52 <+perlDreamer> are you able to see it as well, Haarg?
00:54 < CIA-45> WebGUI: colin * r9144 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (6 files in 5 dirs): Remove the warnings pragma
00:54 < CIA-45> WebGUI: colin * r9145 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/lib/WebGUI/ (7 files in 5 dirs): Remove warnings pragma.
00:54 <@Haarg> it does fail yes
00:57 <@Haarg> part of that is because of Useqq
00:57 <+perlDreamer> no
00:58 <+perlDreamer> if you remove Useqq it just alternates differently
00:58 <@Haarg> what you sent doesn't have Useqq
00:58 <@Haarg> so adding it makes it closer
00:58 <@Haarg> but it is still different
00:58 <+perlDreamer> yes
00:59 <@Haarg> how was the first file generated?
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01:01 <+perlDreamer> I snipped it by hand from the German translation
01:01 <+perlDreamer> which I downloaded from the i18n server
01:02 <+perlDreamer> see this bug: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/9308
01:02 <@Haarg> it always wants to encode the chars the same way for me
01:03 <@Haarg> but the initial file has them in two forms
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01:04 <@Haarg> it looks like it is switching Useqq on and off
01:04 <+perlDreamer> internally?  yes, it does.  When it switches to the \x escape it has to use double quotes
01:04 <+perlDreamer> but it happens even when items aren't touched
01:05 <@Haarg> yeah, i guess it isn't using Useqq, but it is using double quotes in some cases anyway
01:08 <+perlDreamer> yeah, at first I thought that it was a Data::Dumper config problem, but after reading the docs I realized that there's no way to ask it to alter how it handles stuff.
01:12 <@Haarg> i think i figured it out
01:12 <@Haarg> it's not a data::dumper bug
01:12 <+perlDreamer> clue me in, dude
01:12 <@Haarg> when it writes out the single quote version
01:13 <@Haarg> it doesn't have the utf8 character
01:13 <@Haarg> it has the byte string
01:13 <@Haarg> the utf8 pragma in the file that is written means they both versions are read as characters instead of byte strings
01:14 <@Haarg> it is getting translated to the byte string when it gets sent to and from the browser
01:14 <+perlDreamer> in the test file, nothing is done to the data, but it still toggles back and forth
01:14 <@Haarg> does it?
01:15 <@Haarg> how are you testing that?
01:15 <@Haarg> it always wants to write the same thing for me
01:15 <+perlDreamer> let me set up a test that goes through another iteration of import and export.  In the full translation CGI, they go back and forth and back and forth
01:15 <@Haarg> hrm
01:16 <@Haarg> there is definately something screwy here i guess
01:19 <+perlDreamer> you know, by looking at the file with vim, maybe something bad is happening...
01:19 <@Haarg>   'message' => 'Zur\xfcck zur Seite.'   
01:19 <+perlDreamer> yeah, that's the hex encoding for a wide character
01:19 <@Haarg> that doesn't make a lot of sense though
01:20 <+perlDreamer> inside of a single quoted string?  No.
01:20 <@Haarg> yeah
01:20 <+perlDreamer> but if you cat the file, it looks fine
01:20 <+perlDreamer> maybe it's just a display issue with Test::Differences
01:20 <@Haarg> i think it is
01:28 <+perlDreamer> well, on the 2nd iteration, everything passes
01:28 <+perlDreamer> which means that you were right earlier about the browser interaction
01:29 <+perlDreamer> how do we force UTF8 handling of the data from CGI->param?
01:29 <@Haarg> decode it ourselves
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01:30 <+perlDreamer> that will fix it in the script, do we also need a fixup script for the data that's currently in various encodings?
01:30 <@Haarg> it shouldn't matter really
01:30 <@Haarg> all of the data is valid, just in different forms
01:31 <@Haarg> once it is changed and committed once it should be the 'proper' format
01:31 <@Haarg> as long as we have utf8 headers in what we are sending out it should always come back as a utf8 byte string
01:31 <+perlDreamer> what happens if it is already decoded?
01:31 <@Haarg> it won't be
01:32 <+perlDreamer> setNamespaceItems($cgi->param("namespace"),$cgi->param("tag"),decode_utf8($cgi->param("message")));
01:32 <@Haarg> looks about right
01:32 <+perlDreamer> that's in there currently
01:33 <@Haarg> fun
01:34 <+perlDreamer> do we need to encode it manually on the way out then?
01:34 <+perlDreamer> since it's being decoded on the way in?
01:35 <@Haarg> i'm not sure
01:37 <@Haarg> with Useqq it sticks with the \374 form
01:37 <@Haarg> it still alternates without it though
01:37 <+perlDreamer> iirc, I was still seeing some \x{fc} when UseQQ
01:38 <+perlDreamer> and I didn't try that in the CGI
01:38 <+perlDreamer> I'll do that now
01:38 <@Haarg> after a couple loops though it goes with \374 and stays there
01:38 <@Haarg> http://rt.cpan.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=28607
01:38 <@Haarg> i guess it must be a bug
01:40 <+perlDreamer> well, in any case it's not harmful for the i18n server
01:40 <+perlDreamer> just weird
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04:36 < elnino> hi. I setup a store, using only cash, and I think someone mentioned this, but the only products I have are subscription, and someone said at one point that subscriptions can not be purchased with cash only stores. Was that fixed? I have 7.5.24 (I believe)
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05:02 < elnino> Is there a way to setup the store to not track inventory?
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23:17 < bernd_> preaction, truly online or just your ghost?
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00:58 < SynQ> would it be possible to run WebGUI on a 32MB NSLU2 arm system?
00:58 < SynQ> I wonder
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03:35 < specsmu> hullo
03:36 < specsmu> I'm about to upgrade from version 6.8.6.  Do I need to do all sorts of incremental upgrades, or can I follow the instructions?
03:37 < SynQ> yes
03:37 < SynQ> read the gotcha.txt
03:37 < specsmu> I take it I just asked a trick question.
03:37 < specsmu> what I'm asking is, I remember last time I did this, I had to do four different overwerites and upgrades in a row, or maybe more
03:37 < specsmu> if I just do the latest version and follow the instructions, I should be OK?
03:38 < SynQ> yes and no
03:38 < SynQ> you should read the gotcha.txt
03:38 < specsmu> I feel like I'm in Shroedinger's webgui.
03:38 < SynQ> and make damn sure you make backups
03:38 < SynQ> complete backups
03:38 < specsmu> backups alredy made.
03:39 < SynQ> 6.8.6 doesn't sound too bad to me
03:39 < specsmu> backed up the database, /home/WebGUI, and all of the wwwroots
03:39 < SynQ> perhaps there is something worth reading in the wiki about updates
03:39 < SynQ> and steps in between
03:40 < specsmu> well, here goes, I guess.  at least I have backups.
03:41 < SynQ> good luck to you :)
03:41 < specsmu> thanks.  I've been doing linux dministrationfor so long, this should only take me a day.
03:41 < specsmu> haha
03:42 < SynQ> hehe
03:43 < specsmu> "you need to upgrade to the latest 6.8 release before you can upgrade to 6.99"
03:43 < specsmu> oh, POO.
03:43 < specsmu> well, I hope you guys still have them...
03:43 < SynQ> sure
03:43 < SynQ> it's available
03:46 < specsmu> wow, where'd I get so many users from.  :D
03:46 < specsmu> hope you don't mind if I sit around and make snarky comments while I do this, it makes it less stressful
03:47 < SynQ> go ahead
03:47 < SynQ> I love to be entertained :)
03:47 < specsmu> ahh, stephen sondheim
03:48 < specsmu> "let meeeee. entertain you..."
03:48 < specsmu> ok, upgrade to 6.8.9 starting
03:48 < specsmu> and there are some new gotchas btw that aren't documented.
03:48 < SynQ> did you clear the cache and the trash?
03:48 < specsmu> ehh. no.  I gather I'm supposed to do that?
03:48 < SynQ> I reccomend it :)
03:49 < specsmu> I don't see instructions on how to do that.
03:49 < specsmu> looking..
03:50 < SynQ> in the web interface
03:50 < SynQ> as administrator
03:50 < specsmu> ahhh.  this is someone else's site, I haven't logged in in years
03:50 < specsmu> hehe
03:51 < SynQ> I don't envy you
03:51 < specsmu> me neither.  :)
03:51 < specsmu> I don't envy the guy I'm upgrading once he sees the new admin colsole
03:51 < specsmu> I'm sure it's better, gbut it'll be a shock
03:52 < SynQ> it's different
03:52 < specsmu> heehee, I get tobe a BOFH while giving him what he's asking for
03:53 < SynQ> bastards are not really nice people though
03:53 < specsmu> didn't say I was
03:53 < specsmu> just that I can be mean and nice at the same time
03:53 < SynQ> I prefere the term LOFH
03:53 < SynQ> the Likable Operator From Heaven
03:53 < specsmu> that's no fun
03:53 < specsmu> harp --play
03:53 < SynQ> but it is
03:54 < specsmu> cloud --sit
03:54 < SynQ> you get to be liked and loved
03:54 < SynQ> ask colin :)
03:54 < specsmu> I've no idea how that feels
03:54 < specsmu> heh
03:55 < SynQ> Colin is one of TPBW
03:55 < specsmu> TPBW?
03:55 < specsmu> The Putatively Big Women?
03:55 < SynQ> hehehe
03:55 < SynQ> The People Behind WebGUI
03:55 < specsmu> oh.
03:56 < specsmu> I may have met him at SCALE
03:56 < specsmu> wow, load average 18... clearing the cache must be intensive.
03:57 < specsmu> more likely my machine is just way underpowered...  they're going to put me on a faster one again tomorrow
03:57 < SynQ> do you use database caching
03:57 < SynQ> ?
03:57 < specsmu> I didn't think so, but apparently.
04:01 < SynQ> I'm going to go to bed soon
04:01 < specsmu> ok.
04:02 < specsmu> I guess I'll try to muddle this out
04:03 < specsmu> thanks for the help
04:03 < SynQ> my pleasure
04:26 < specsmu> well, this is lame.
04:26 < specsmu> internal server error and nothing at all getting dumped out to err.
04:31 < specsmu> ah, bit by POST_MAX again.
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05:11 < elnino> HI. I'm looking at the navigation help in webgui, and wasn't seeing anything there that would help me count the number of children a page has. Is there a neat trick anyone knows?
05:12 < elnino> oh never mind. I should be using a different asset. 
05:52 < specsmu> wow, what a mess.
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06:07 < specsmu> !vi
06:07 < specsmu> oops
06:08 < CIA-45> WebGUI: colin * r9146 /WebGUI/t/Session/DateTime.t: Update test to match fixed code.
06:09 < specsmu> wow, either I'm doing something spectacularly wrong or the 0.99.5 upgrade script is spectacularly broken.
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06:16 < specsmu> looks like it's the former.
06:16 < specsmu> hah.
06:32 < specsmu> AND the latter.
06:33 < specsmu> Parse::PlainConfig apparently now requires a read() where it didn't before.
06:35 < specsmu> and JSON is farked up too.
08:09 < specsmu> wow.  this is so messed up..
08:38 < specsmu> heh, trying to update the asset before the assetIndex is actually added to the database... how did this upgrade *ever* work?
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09:06 < specsmu> hi radix
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09:55 < Radix__> hi specsmu :)
09:55 < specsmu> wow, where'd you come from
09:55 < specsmu> oh
09:56 < specsmu> I want to go on record as saying this workflow stuff is confusing thecrap out of me
09:56 < specsmu> I committed something, the changes disappeared, I can't click "edit" anymore
09:57 < Radix__> Hmm.. it means that the changes haven't been processed yet - which may just mean it's a bit slow (can take a few seconds perhaps so try a refresh)
09:58 < specsmu> does spectre process the changes?
09:58 < Radix__> Alternatively, it may mean that spectre isn't set up properly
09:58 < specsmu> yeah... :P
09:58 < Radix__> in which case check your webgui.log and see what's going on
09:58 < Radix__> are you using the wre?
09:58 < specsmu> no, right now I'm just trying toget an old version upgraded toa slightly less old version
09:58 < specsmu> and let me tell you
09:58 < specsmu> the upgrade scipts are BROKEN
09:59 < Radix__> what version?
09:59 < specsmu> 6.8.10 to 6.99.0
09:59 < specsmu> I had to manually modify the perl scripts to get it to work
09:59 < specsmu> not to mention...
09:59 < specsmu> it does NOT like the new version of PlainConfig
09:59 < specsmu> I had to hack the code to make it work
10:00 < Radix__> Hmm.. you prolly need to talk to the PB guys then.. there's a specific way of upgrading with the older versions and I can never remember what it is
10:00 < specsmu> yeah, I think I've muddled through it
10:00 < Radix__> I'm using 7.0.8 at work myself
10:00 < specsmu> it wiped my templates but otherwise I got out unscathed
10:01 < specsmu> oh... I think it worked
10:01 < specsmu> oh good, and I can edit again.
10:02 < Radix__> cool :)
10:02 < specsmu> webgui has just gotten moreand more complicated
10:02 < specsmu> sigh
10:02 < specsmu> I reallyregret ever touching it but now I'm stuck with it
10:03 < Radix__> I wish upgrades were easier myself
10:03 < specsmu> I don't even have the hang of adminning it
10:03 < specsmu> my client wanted to give me some time back so he tried hiring someone to do some work on it
10:03 < specsmu> the person gave up in disgust
10:03 < specsmu> it was almost funny
10:08 < specsmu> I hope it's easier after the upgrades.
10:47 < specsmu> now THAT is odd.
10:48 < specsmu> for some reason, suddenly it can't create new files and directories, even though the permissions are correct
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00:20 < specsmu> well, after I got to 6.99.5, it's been much more uneventful.
00:20 <+perlDreamer> you can say that again
00:21 < specsmu> the upgrade from 6.8.6 to 6.99.5 is...  TERRIBLE.
00:21 < specsmu> neither the upgrade code nor the actual code actually works out of the box on a modern system.
00:22 <+perlDreamer> post bugs about it
00:22 < specsmu> and even 7.2.3 needs modifications for thelatest JSON
00:22 <+perlDreamer> isn't that documented in the gotchas.txt file?
00:22 < specsmu> I don't think it's worth posting bugs for anything other thn the latest version
00:22 < specsmu> no.
00:22 < specsmu> maybe for newer versions.
00:23 <+perlDreamer> 7.2.3 isn't supposed to work with the latest JSON
00:24 < specsmu> well, I made it
00:24 <+perlDreamer> the JSON module went through an API rewrite which forced us to make changes to WebGUI
00:24 < specsmu> it's OK, I'm forcing the issue anyway
00:24 < specsmu> anything I have to do to make the pathwork
00:24 < specsmu> path work
00:25 < specsmu> heh, anyone who hasn't been doing this fro 12 years would probably be working on it into March.
00:27 < specsmu> if you just take out the autoconv and skipinvalid options anywhere they appear, it's enough to get it to working.
00:27 <+perlDreamer> that's why I suggested posting a bug.  if anyone else has to do this, you'd be helping them out
00:27 < specsmu> hmm.  maybe I will..
00:28 <+perlDreamer> especially if you've already made workarounds for it
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00:28 < specsmu> dunno if I'll remember every single one but I can probably do the major ones
00:36 < specsmu> I don't think WebGui needs enough perl modules.
00:37 < specsmu> there are still some written by a farmer in Elbonia that haven't been included.
00:45 < specsmu> oh wow, there's a farkup.
00:49 < specsmu> looks like 7.2.3 to 7.3.9 doesn't work.
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01:25 <+perlDreamer> specsmu: what's the hiccup there?
01:27 < specsmu> the upgrade from 7.2.3 to 7.3.0 requires a field that's not put in until 7.3.8-7.3.9
01:27 < specsmu> have to do 7.3.8 first
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01:40 < specsmu> well, so far the modern updates are working well.
02:09 < specsmu> looks like 7.5.37 is the limit, anything later appears to be broke.
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06:51 < elnino> hi.  I'm gettting a bunch of "Apache/mod_proxy on localhost is down and could not be restarted.
06:51 < elnino> "  what should I be looking at? 
06:53 < elnino> The messsages are coming to me via email from WRE.
06:54 < specsmu> should see why apache won't start.
06:56 < elnino> apache is running I believe it's the mod_proxy. When I do a ps-aux, there are more mod_proxy than there are mod_perl listed which seems weird to me. We've added more sites to the servers, so maybe there is a limit of concurrent mod_* that can be running?
06:56 < specsmu> maybe.. I don't know anything about mod_proxy
06:56 < elnino> I don't really either, it's part of the wre and it makes webgui "go"
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07:01 < elnino> I have six   /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start
07:01 < elnino> 10    /data/wre/prereqs/bin/httpd -f /data/wre/etc/modperl.conf
07:01 < elnino> 11  /data/wre/prereqs/bin/httpd -f /data/wre/etc/modproxy.conf
07:01 < specsmu> have you looked in the error logs?
07:02 < elnino> yes, I have vague php errors without a date so I have no idea if they are releatd.
07:02 < elnino> that is in my apache error_log
07:02 < elnino> I haven't looked at the mod_proxy error log.  going there now.
07:04 < elnino> mod proxy log only consists of warnings of "Session Cache is not configured [hint: SSLSessionCache]"
07:04 < elnino> mod perl is more interesting
07:05 < elnino> Apache2::SizeLimit httpd process too big
07:05 < elnino> exiting at SIZE=79864/100000 KB  SHARE=1864/0 KB  UNSHARED=78000/75000 KB  REQUESTS=66 LIFETIME=13040 seconds
07:05 < specsmu> there you go.
07:06 < elnino> I have no idea what that means.   other than somthing is too big... would you be able to point me to what settings I should be evaluating?
07:06 < specsmu> try finding documentation on Apache2::SizeLimit
07:06 < specsmu> it's probably something in the apache config
07:06 < specsmu> I don't know what though.
07:07 < elnino> ok.  to google I go.
07:15 <+Radix-wrk> nah.. the sizelimit thing is normal
07:16 < specsmu> have you looked at the webgui error log?
07:16 <+Radix-wrk> it's set in apache itself to kill any apache2 processes that are getting too large (which they can do if there's memory leaks)
07:16 < elnino> I saw that in one of the threads on pb, but still looking around.
07:16 < elnino> I saw in an older mod_perl, that server reached MaxClients setting, consider raising the MaxClients setting
07:16 < elnino> that only showed up once.
07:16 <+Radix-wrk> the email you're getting is probably from the wremonitor
07:16 < elnino> yes
07:16 < specsmu> that just means requests might be dropped
07:17 <+Radix-wrk> it sounds like it's running.. just wremonitor is confused?
07:17 <+Radix-wrk> I haven't used the more recent versions.. but I've never been a big fan of wremonitor - never quite worked right for me
07:17 < elnino> right now, I'm stopping all services to see if there are any straggling processes around. Someone walked me thru this once before. Not sure exactly why I had to, but it "fixed" my problem then.
07:18 <+Radix-wrk> So apache won't start?
07:18 <+Radix-wrk> or mod-perl won't start?
07:18 < elnino> it's slow to stop them, still stopping. =)
07:18 < elnino> so something must be keeping it busy. I did this because I did notice in my webgui log
07:19 < elnino> ERROR - spectre.conf - POE::Kernel::_dispatch_event[1012] - typeerrors.
07:19 < elnino> so something seemed to have gone amuck with spectre?
07:19 <+Radix-wrk> Hmm.. sounds odd
07:19 < elnino> still stopping.  wow.
07:20 <+Radix-wrk> sometimes a 'rm -rf /tmp/WebGUI' can help too
07:20 <+Radix-wrk> clears the cache
07:20 <+Radix-wrk> stop everything first tho
07:20 < elnino> ok. I'll do that after things stop... done!
07:21 <+Radix-wrk> it shouldn't be as much of an issue with the newer versions.. but I need to do that with 7.0.8 from time to time to keep things running smoothly
07:21 < elnino> yep. A bunch of /data/wre/prereqs/bin/httpd -f /data/wre/etc/modproxy.conf hanging out with services all stopped. I'm going to kill them.
07:21 < elnino> I hvae 7.5.24
07:21 <+Radix-wrk> kill em off manually then
07:22 <+Radix-wrk> killall httpd
07:22 < elnino> spectre is still running... huh?
07:22 <+Radix-wrk> keep running that until all dead ;)
07:22 <+Radix-wrk> or ps and kill -9 each individual process
07:22 < elnino> I did a stop all and it said specre was stoppped.... weird.
07:23 <+Radix-wrk> something odd is going on
07:23 < elnino> the "tty" is "?"
07:23 < specsmu> that means it's a daemon.
07:23 < elnino> rather than a pts.  
07:23 < elnino> oh.
07:23 < specsmu> daemons detach from a tty.
07:23 < elnino> ok. I ran "stop all" again. and all processes are gone.
07:23 < elnino> opps. except spectre
07:24 < elnino> STAT is "R" does that mean it's restarting on it's own?
07:25 < specsmu> no, that means it's Running.
07:25 <+Radix-wrk> kill it manually
07:25 < elnino> yep. done. starting all aain.
07:25 <+Radix-wrk> fingers crossed ;)
07:26 < elnino> yeah, seemed ike I had two "start alls" going or something.
07:26 < elnino> all looks well, still looking around.
07:29 < elnino> Hey thanks for being there with me!  both of you..
07:29 <+Radix-wrk> all good then? :)
07:29 < elnino> looks like thing are swell, and sites are speedy again.
07:29 <+Radix-wrk> good to hear
07:29 < specsmu> yw
07:30 < specsmu> though radix did most of the work :)
07:30 < elnino> noticed that my logs are rotating daily, is there a way to change the frequency?
07:30  * Radix-wrk has no idea about logs.
07:31 <+Radix-wrk> And it's good to know the same process I use with 7.0.8 still works with 7.5.24
07:31 < elnino> that's fine,  just thought I'd ask since I had your attention.  =) I'll look on pb.
07:31 < elnino> it's weird with those extra processes. I wish I knew what caused them rather than just how to kill them.
07:32 <+Radix-wrk> I should upgrade this server to the latest webgui sometime, but it runs pretty well as is and had no major incentive to
07:32 < elnino> nice features?
07:32 < elnino> 7.0.8 - that's a long time ago.  before my time.  =)
07:32 <+Radix-wrk> elnino: what I think happened is that wremonitor lost the plot - thought apache/spectre was dead and restarted it
07:32 < elnino> but WHY?  =) It was definately confused I agree.
07:33 <+Radix-wrk> no idea, sorry
07:33 < elnino> is there a way to disable wre? or modify what it double checks?
07:33 < elnino> I mean wremonitor?
07:34 <+Radix-wrk> Hmm.. not sure with the new version
07:34 <+Radix-wrk> it used to be added to cron
07:35 <+Radix-wrk> check /etc/crontab or try su'ing to the webgui user and crontab -e
07:38 < elnino> ok...  I came across this before.. And am a bit confused by it.   I ALWAYS modify /etc/crontab.  but if I do crontab -e the contents of the file is different. what's up with that?  (wremonitor is in the "crontab -e")
07:38 < elnino> is one a user's crontab?
07:38 <+Radix-wrk> yeah
07:38 <+Radix-wrk> crontab -e is a users crontab
07:38 < elnino> well, I'm root.
07:38 <+Radix-wrk> root is a user too
07:39 < elnino> so "whos" is the /etc/crontab.  I thought that would be roots...
07:39 <+Radix-wrk> nah, it's not anyones - it's the systems I guess
07:40 < elnino> so where is root's crontab located? there is nothign in home or ~ or /usr
07:41 <+Radix-wrk> not sure actually
07:41 <+Radix-wrk> cron stores it somewhere obviously
07:41 < elnino> ok... well.  now I know.... Thanks!
07:42 < elnino> to google I go.
07:42 < elnino>  /var/spool/cron/crontabs supposedly
07:42 < elnino> and there it is.
07:44 < elnino> ok. that is enough fun for today. now I get to document. Thanks! Have a good evening!
07:46 <+Radix-wrk> enjoy :)
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07:57 < specsmu> well, me go too.  upgrade is done and I hope I don't have to touch webgui for a while.
07:57 < specsmu> later
07:57  * Radix-wrk waves.
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16:31 < AMH_bob> Hi everybody,
16:31 < AMH_bob> Happy New Year!
16:32 < AMH_bob> Last week somebody wished me one, but work started to hit the fan right after that and I did not get to finish the chat.
16:36 <+BartJol> happy new year AMH_bob
16:38 < AMH_bob> tnx BartJol
16:38 < AMH_bob> same to you!!!
16:38 <+BartJol> thanx
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17:37 <+perlDreamer> Hail, hail, the gang's all here
17:39 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: So my wife is reading through her email today and asks me if I want to host a 22 year old Belgium girl for the semester...........
17:39 <+perlDreamer> Do you speak Belgium-ese?
17:40 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: nope, not a bit.
17:40 <+perlDreamer> in that case, maybe pass
17:40 <+BartJol> well, if she's not french speaking I should be able to translate
17:41  * deafferret dreams of two monkeys
17:41 <@perlmonkey2> ah, no matter what, I'll pass.  Having a 22 year old girl living here and making use of the pool would not be conducive to a successful marriage :P
17:42 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2, you are wise :)
17:42 <+BartJol> even though your wife makes the proposition?
17:42 < deafferret> perlmonkey2: ya, what BartJol said  :)
17:42 <@perlmonkey2> BartJol: Just me, my friend, she did not make that proposal in earnest.  Merely a test, and I passed.
17:43 <@perlmonkey2> s/Just/trust/
17:43 <+BartJol> ah
17:43 <+BartJol> she are evil
17:43 < SDuensin> Greetings.
17:43 <@perlmonkey2> BartJol: her and the rest of the women in the world :P
17:43 < deafferret> turn the tables -- be insulted that your wife has so little faith in you
17:43 -!- kristi [n=kmccombs@68-114-219-232.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui
17:44  * SDuensin will host!   :-)
17:44 <@perlmonkey2> deafferret: there is only one rule of marriage that I've found to be accurate.  She is always right, even when she is wrong, you are also wrong.
17:44 <+BartJol> darn, we sound like frustrated nerds
17:44 <@perlmonkey2> :P
17:44 <@perlmonkey2> SDuensin: I think you need to live in the area to host.  But it might be worth moving here for a semester :P
17:44 < deafferret> of course I'm frustrated. I'm married.  
17:45 < SDuensin> hhehe
17:46 < AMH_bob> I'm still happy my wife is letting me go to the WUC again this year!
17:48 <+BartJol> mmm and why is my the karma macro executed in a profile field from one user and not the other....
17:52 <+BartJol> mmm the caret is escaped
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17:56 <@rizen> it sounds like you guys all just have terrible wives. =)
17:57 < deafferret> like Ivan the Terrible?
17:57 < SDuensin> No, but there's always room for 22 year old hotness!
17:57 <+BartJol> I don't have one... but to move to the US for a smester just to host a girl... no
18:02 <+BartJol> mmm I feel like catching eels with that caret, it keeps escaping
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18:12 < SDuensin> Hey, while people are here, I want to argue about JSON in the database some more.  :-)
18:13 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin: Did you find your double variant problem?
18:14 < SDuensin> Not yet.  :-(
18:16 < SDuensin> Ok, now I'm really confused...
18:16 < SDuensin> I edited one of the duplicate variants.  Now they're no longer the same, but the one I edited doesn't appear in the drop down to purchase it.
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18:24 -!- mode/#webgui [+o plainhao] by preaction
18:25 <+BartJol> he, is there a new PB person in town? We don't take  kindly of strange people
18:25 <@preaction> BartJol: now now, we don't want no trouble
18:26 <+BartJol> :)
18:26 <@preaction> everybody give plainhao a nice, gooey welcome
18:26 < SDuensin> Ewww
18:26 <+BartJol> just introduce! then he/she is welcome
18:26 <+perlDreamer> howdy, plainhao!
18:27 <+BartJol> but welcome plainhao
18:27 <@plainhao> hi, everybody!
18:27 <@plainhao> today is my first day, hopefully not my last :)
18:28 <+perlDreamer> plainhao: recipe for PB success.  Don't tell rizen that he sucks.
18:29 <+perlDreamer> and don't mention the P word in channel
18:29 <+BartJol> and don't mind if he does it to you
18:29 <+BartJol> Perl?
18:29 <+perlDreamer> no, the other P word
18:29 <+perlDreamer> actually, there may be several
18:30  * plainhao appreciates all the advice and will follow accordingly.
18:32 <@preaction> i suppose introductions will be in order, I'm Doug whom you've spoken to before
18:32 <+BartJol> I'm a Bart, a Dutchie
18:33 <+BartJol> s/a/the/
18:33 <+perlDreamer> Bart is a perl programmer, and does the majority of the Dutch translation
18:33 <@preaction> the as-mentiond rizen is JT Smith. Haarg is Graham (support and R&D expert). khenn is Frank (you've spoken to him as well)
18:34 <+BartJol> perl programmer? that might be a bit to much credit
18:34 <+BartJol> perlDreamer is the test hero
18:34 <+perlDreamer> it does not matter how far along the path you are, only that you are on the path
18:34 <+BartJol> and his name is Colin
18:34 <@preaction> tavisto is Tavis Parker, the marketing guru. steveo_aa is Stephen Opal, Alumni expert (and Perl / JS developer)
18:35  * SDuensin is the #1 WebGUI Fan.
18:35 <@tavisto> Hi Hao, welcome aboard
18:35 <@preaction> as for the rest, i shant violate their privacy
18:35 <@tavisto> preaction = the man with one hand
18:36 <@plainhao> thanks, tavis, i hope you're not in too much pain
18:36 <@plainhao> oh, wait, it was doug who broke his hand :)
18:36 <@tavisto> yep :)
18:37 <@preaction> yeah, the codiene helps, but leaves me wondering what's happening at any given moment
18:37 <+perlDreamer> tavisto, have you been breaking the developers again?
18:37 <+perlDreamer> I keep telling you that you won't be allowed to play with them if you do...
18:38 <@preaction> nono, tavis doesnt hit me, i... i... fell down some stairs
18:39 <+perlDreamer> just have a fudge oat bar and some tylenol, preaction
18:39 <@preaction> tylenol 3! its better than tylenol 1 and 2
18:39 <@plainhao> do you guys use the latest development version for client work, latest beta, or latest stable?
18:40 <+BartJol> tavisto: if you do, your trip to the netherlands will be long and painfull
18:40 <+BartJol> latest stable
18:40 <+BartJol> or older, but that's due to laziness in the past
18:40 <@tavisto> yeah, preaction rarely disobeys, but when he does the penalty involves a hammer and his fingers..
18:41 <+perlDreamer> plainhao, it depends on what the client wants
18:41 <@tavisto> BartJol is next on the list. He is a big girly man!
18:42 <+BartJol> girly? I don't take that from metroman
18:42 <+perlDreamer> tavisto, BartJol would bend you in a nice, tight, Michgander pretzel shape
18:42 <+BartJol> but I'd rather not
18:42 <+perlDreamer> no, we really do like tavisto
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18:43 <@tavisto> BartJol looks mean (not really) but is actually just a nice big buzzed teddy bear
18:44 <+BartJol> I do have a scary picture of me somewere though
18:44 <+perlDreamer> it's on webgui.org
18:45 <+BartJol> smiling with a razor at the ready
18:45 <+BartJol> no it's not there
18:46 <@tavisto> hehe nice
18:48  * perlDreamer is not used to seeing BartJol with hair
18:48 <+BartJol> you should be after last WUC
18:49 <+perlDreamer> no, you were shaven then, yes?
18:50 <+BartJol> my face was, and I had a haircut
19:14 < CIA-45> WebGUI: colin * r9147 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): Fix linking to other things and autocreating the form field for it.
19:14 < CIA-45> WebGUI: yung * r9148 /branch/WebGUI_flux/lib/WebGUI/ (Auth/WebGUI.pm Inbox/Message.pm): forcing html in WebGUI Auth's welcome message email
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19:26 <+cap10morgan> hey, i have a client who wanted to setup a photo gallery on their website. i encouraged them to use the photo gallery tool (their site is running on wG 7.5), but he gave me a list of shortcomings he'd found w/ it that are showstoppers for his using it for this. he wants to use something else now, but i wanted to put his list up somewhere so the wG community could try tackling them (either w/ code, clever ideas, or whatever). What's the best pl
19:27 < dionak> sounds like RFE's
19:27 <+cap10morgan> that's what I thought too
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19:48 < SDuensin> I hate this database table.  Hate it.  HATE HATE HATE it.
19:48  * SDuensin refers to "Product".
19:49  * perlDreamer won't take it personally
19:49 < SDuensin> I even filed an RFE.  rizen denied it in record time.
19:50 < SDuensin> Seriously.  How is JSON in the database even remotely a good idea?  (No offense.)
19:50 <@rizen> SDuensin: it is good for a number of reasons
19:50 <+perlDreamer> it allows versioning of collateral
19:50 <+perlDreamer> it exports and packages and prototypes by default
19:50 < SDuensin> So does another table.
19:50 <@rizen> but the primary reason that basically gets rid of all other arguments is the one pd just stated
19:51 <@rizen> SDuensin: no it doesn't
19:51 < SDuensin> Why not?  It could.
19:51 <@rizen> perlDreamer neglected to use the world "automatic"
19:51 < SDuensin> Yea.
19:51 <@rizen> we get it for free
19:51 <@rizen> no additional work
19:51 <@rizen> it just works
19:51 <@rizen> anything else requires extra development effort, not to mention knowledge of the other subsystems that might use it
19:51 < SDuensin> So we take bad database design when it lets us be lazy?  That's a dangerous precedent.
19:52 <@rizen> versioning, prototypes, packages, or anything else that comes in the future
19:52 <@rizen> no SDuensin you're not seeing the picture here
19:52 <@rizen> this isn't about laziness
19:52 <@rizen> it's about compatibility
19:52 <@rizen> we design our objects to work with all these other features
19:52 <@rizen> not to work with the database
19:53 <@rizen> the user doesn't care about the database
19:53 <@rizen> the user cares that all their features work the way they exepct
19:53 < SDuensin> I know the user doesn't, but the admin does.
19:53 <@rizen> they want their products and all their variants to be versioned
19:53 <@rizen> and the admin cares about that too
19:53 <@rizen> the admin also doesn't care about the db
19:53 <@rizen> only the programmer does
19:54 <@rizen> and so the programmer has to make a sacrifice for the sake of the user and secondarly the admin
19:54 < SDuensin> Well mine has become a complete disaster.
19:54 <@rizen> and that's why the decision has been made
19:54 < SDuensin> (And I used the API!)
19:55 <@rizen> you either used it inapproriately, or we have not documented it well enough, or there is a bug, or all of the above
19:55 <@rizen> regardless
19:55 <@rizen> it has nothing to do with the choice to use json in in a table
19:55 < SDuensin> But the JSON makes it practically unfixable.
19:55 <@rizen> *you* should not care how the data is stored unless *you* are the one writing the product asset
19:55 <@rizen> which you are not
19:56 < SDuensin> No, but this started when I had to set all my products to an insane quantity to get them to show up.
19:56 < SDuensin> Now I have duplicates of everything.
19:56 < SDuensin> Except, only kinda.  Which is what hurts my head.
19:56 <@rizen> SDuensin: you can sit and bitch and whine if you want, but i won't participate in that discussion. you wanted to know why your RFE was rejected, and that's what i'm responding to
19:57 < SDuensin> I see dupes in the admin area where you can edit variants, but not in the drop down where the user selects one to purchase.
19:58 < SDuensin> Sorry if it sounds like bitching.  I just think it's the wrong approach and wanted to debate it a bit.  You've got damn good reasons.  It's just going to require me (and others) to write a ton of scripts to manage their stores efficiently.
19:59 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin, maybe we just need a product with variants that do not do inventory control.
19:59 <+perlDreamer> I'd be happy to write such a beast for you
20:00 < SDuensin> Well, that'd fix one problem.  My main hangup right now (other than fixing my dupes) is "sizes"...
20:00 <+perlDreamer> sizes?
20:00 < SDuensin> I know variants are intended for that, but here's the problem...
20:00 < SDuensin> Say I have a ring that's available in silver and gold, wide and narrow...
20:01 < SDuensin> That's four variants of one product...
20:01 <+perlDreamer> yes...
20:01 < SDuensin> Now the ring comes in two dozen different sizes.  My drop down now has almost a hundred items in it!
20:03 < SDuensin> See how it gets out of hand very quickly?
20:03 <+perlDreamer> yes, but like you said, it's a different problem, and I can only tackle one at a time
20:04 < SDuensin> I understand that.  I've considered a few hacks to fix it...
20:04 < SDuensin> Either allowing arbitrary data to be entered when they are viewing the product, or just a quick hack to put a general comments field on the cart during check out.
20:05  * SDuensin already hacked his own Shelf to fix pagination.
20:05 <@rizen> SDuensin: put in RFE's for either scripts or UI based controls that do these maintenance functions
20:06 < SDuensin> rizen - Will do.  I figured the need for them would go away over time as the new shop becomes more mature.
20:06 <@rizen> SDuensin: also put in RFE's for API enhancements to make writing said scripts easier and less error prone
20:06 <@rizen> the shop becomes mature through RFE's
20:06 < SDuensin> And after I manage to get out from under this site, I plan on doing some of this work myself.  And other fun WebGUI things!
20:06 <@rizen> until we know what walls people are running into it's hard to remove the walls
20:07 < SDuensin> I know.  I just like to understand the wall before I RFE something or report it as a bug.  You guys have enough work without me filing half-baked reports.
20:08 <+perlDreamer> I'd rather sort through half-baked bug reports than have people being frustrated with unreported bugs
20:09 <+perlDreamer> and don't forget, _I'm_ responsible for the Shelf pagination thing.
20:09 <+perlDreamer> I was wrong in considering it a bug, when it was an RFE.
20:09 < SDuensin> :-P
20:09 < SDuensin> That one was easy.
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20:25 < CIA-45> WebGUI: colin * r9149 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): 
20:25 < CIA-45> WebGUI: Have Thingy check for existance of table and column to prevent
20:25 < CIA-45> WebGUI: SQL from dying.
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20:47 <+perlDreamer> BartJol: mountains of i18n coming when 7.6.8 is released
20:48 <+BartJol> yeah, you told me
20:48 <+BartJol> when is that due?
20:48 <+perlDreamer> this week, I think
20:49 <+perlDreamer> I'm sorry, man.
20:49 <+BartJol> mmm, and I'm already behind
20:49 <+BartJol> hee, not your fault, you're just doing your thing
20:49 < bernd__> Hey everyone,
20:49 < bernd__> I just posted some questions on JeOS.
20:49 < bernd__> Were these readable?
20:50 < bernd__> I was experiencing network problems on my side?
20:50 <+BartJol> JeOS?
20:50 < bernd__> Hi perlDreamer, hi BartJol, btw.
20:50 <+perlDreamer> no, bernd__   No JeOS stuff from you so far, today
20:50 < bernd__> Ok. I see.
20:50 < bernd__> So I am going to repeat.
20:50 < bernd__> I was thinking about creating a new appliance based on JeOS.
20:50 < bernd__> A more light-weight appliance than the one that is available.
20:51 < bernd__> JeOS is a special flavor of the Ubuntu server edition.
20:51 <+BartJol> oh, first I have to write a mail to the guy that made a loosy report on the state of my new house
20:51 < bernd__> I is specially designed for running inside virtual machines.
20:51 <+BartJol> oh, prolly my opninion in that matter isn't worth that much
20:51 <+BartJol> ah, but that might be interesting for me
20:51 < bernd__> So, tell me your wishes.
20:52 <+BartJol> we have quite some of those, but most run on debian
20:52 < bernd__> What should it come with by default?
20:52 < bernd__> I was thinking of JeOS, because it is very small and William had mentioned it before.
20:52 < bernd__> That was during the discussion about whether to package wre tools separately.
20:53 <+BartJol> well, I should dive in it for a bit before I can form an opinion
20:53 < bernd__> Besides, there are packages for ubuntu now available.
20:53 <+BartJol> sorry, but my new house is a main priority bbl
20:53 < bernd__> BartJol, no problem!
20:54 < bernd__> If I had a house it would be my priority as well :-)
20:54 < bernd__> perlDreamer, any comments?
20:54  * perlDreamer likes fedora :(
20:54 <+perlDreamer> is JeOS different from Knoppix?
20:54 < bernd__> Even on Servers?
20:54 <+perlDreamer> even on servers
20:54 < bernd__> No idea.
20:55 <+perlDreamer> I've been a red hat user for a very long time
20:55 < bernd__> I do not know knoppix.
20:55 < bernd__> I just know Debian and Ubuntu.
20:55 <+perlDreamer> but if red hat/fedora is not available, ubuntu would be my next choice
20:55 -!- rizen [n=rizen@h69-128-55-18.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net] has quit []
20:55 < bernd__> My site is running on ubuntu server and I quite like it.
20:55 <@tavisto> bernd__ I have communicated with several Canonical employees about getting WebGUI into Ubuntu. There is some interest (and they were considering using wG to run the Ubuntu website) but the guys seem to be extremely busy and limited on time.
20:55 <+perlDreamer> I've heard lots of good things about Ubuntu.
20:55 < bernd__> It is very need.
20:56 < bernd__> It has the power of Debian testing but is a lot more stable.
20:56 < bernd__> At least it was in the past.
20:56 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@h19-afsc.ded.indra.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:56 < bernd__> That is the reason why I switched from Debian to ubuntu.
20:56 <@tavisto> let me look up my last email b/c they mentioned how if we had interested contributors then it could be done fairly easy
20:57 < bernd__> tavisto, have you seen the new packages by jmarsden?
20:57 <@tavisto> no, I did briefly see the emails on the dev list though
20:57 < bernd__> perlDreamer, check this one about JeOS: http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition/jeos
20:58 <@tavisto> This is a response I received from Malcom Yates @ canonical:   Because it is GPL'd we can provide access to Ubuntu users through the Partner 
20:58 <@tavisto> repo, but a pre-req for this is that there is a deb available, and that the 
20:58 <@tavisto> deb passes our quality and build standards. We can help with that for a 
20:58 <@tavisto> charge.
20:58 <@tavisto> If you had a MOTU, someone with commit rights to the Ubuntu Universe 
20:58 <@tavisto> repository, then this would enable you to add and maintain with no recourse 
20:58 < bernd__> tavisto, he has published ubuntu packages for intrepid ibex based on the ones by ernesto!
20:58 <@tavisto> to Canonical :-)
20:58 <@tavisto> MOTU is Master Of The Universe
20:59 <+perlDreamer> I like the sound of that
20:59 < bernd__> I would assume that packages which make it into Debian are good enough for Ubuntu as well.
20:59  * perlDreamer is a MOTWU
20:59 <@tavisto> well that's what he stated above
20:59 <@tavisto> the deb has to be available
20:59 <@tavisto> and then it must meet their standards. Ernesto told me his code is way beyond the standards anyway
21:00 < bernd__> But is available already! Check http://launchpad.net/~jmarsden/+archive
21:00 < CIA-45> WebGUI: colin * r9150 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 
21:00 < CIA-45> WebGUI: Fix problems created by deleting a linked thing. Added additional error messages
21:00 < CIA-45> WebGUI: and a general method for checking the other thing.
21:00 < CIA-45> WebGUI: colin * r9151 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm i18n/English/Asset_Thingy.pm): Forward porting expanded patch for handling deleted things.
21:00 < CIA-45> WebGUI: colin * r9152 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Help/Asset_DataForm.pm): Correct dataform captcha variable name in the help.
21:00 < CIA-45> WebGUI: colin * r9153 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Help/Asset_DataForm.pm): Backporting dataform template variable (captcha) fix.
21:01 < bernd__> The only problem I see is that it is still a monolithic package.
21:01 < bernd__> perlDreamer, did you check the page on JeOS?
21:02 <+perlDreamer> no, I'm fixing bugs
21:02 <+perlDreamer> I'll look soon, though
21:05 <+perlDreamer> sounds nice.  The best thing for wG would be no apache, no mysql, no mod_perl
21:05 <+perlDreamer> I didn't see a list of packages
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21:06 < bernd__> perlDreamer, list of packages?
21:06 < bernd__> You mean, packages that are available for installing on JeOS?
21:08 < bernd__> Again having network problems.
21:08 < bernd__> perlDreamer, did my last replies get through?
21:11 <+perlDreamer> yes
21:11 <+perlDreamer> it would be good to see the default list of packages
21:12 <+perlDreamer> it will be a choice between WRE (optimized for wG) and good packages (optimized for sysadmin)
21:12 < bernd__> Available packages are listed on http://packages.ubuntu.com/
21:12 < bernd__> I do not know, which ones are installed by default.
21:13 < bernd__> But the server edition is very light-weight and only comes with a minimum.
21:13 < bernd__> Everything else needs to be apted in.
21:13 < bernd__> Why choose between WRE and admin packages?
21:14 < bernd__> We could use both.
21:14 < bernd__> One tool for managing WebGUI, one for the rest.
21:14 <+perlDreamer> ah, but the WRE versions of apache, perl and mysql are all stripped down for maximum performance
21:14 <+perlDreamer> and native ubuntu/debian packages may not be
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21:15 < bernd__> Since canonical provides a server edition of ubuntu, I would bet there packages are optimized for performance as well.
21:16 < bernd__> their packages
21:16 < bernd__> Still, we could modify configuration.
21:16 <+perlDreamer> true.  When I say stripped down, I mean they only compiled into the WRE only what wG needs.
21:17 < bernd__> But if you preferred the WRE, we could start with the WRE in the beginning.
21:17 < bernd__> That's what I am doing on my V-server.
21:17 <+perlDreamer> for example, I'm fairly sure that a WRE mysql only includes the database driver for ISAM tables
21:17 <+perlDreamer> so no transactions
21:18 < bernd__> Would that be a problem?
21:18 < bernd__> I mean, it is only disk space.
21:18 <+perlDreamer> this is true
21:18 < bernd__> And probably not that much.
21:18 < bernd__> JeOS is only 300 Mb in its minimum installation.
21:19 < bernd__> I think, we could waste a bit.
21:19 <+perlDreamer> I remember it being a point of discussion with SquOnk as a package maintainer, but it's probably minor
21:19 < bernd__> But again, there is no reason not to use the WRE.
21:20 < bernd__> Do you think there would be some interest in a new appliance?
21:20 <+perlDreamer> maybe
21:20 <+perlDreamer> I'd ask on the dev list
21:20 < bernd__> Or better, what would it have to come with to be interesting to others.
21:20 < bernd__> What would be your wish list.
21:20 < bernd__> ?
21:21 <+perlDreamer> hm
21:21 <+perlDreamer> easy deployment for a new vm
21:21 <+perlDreamer> I'm not sure, I haven't done much thinking about VM's
21:22 <+perlDreamer> SynQ has done a lot of thinking about it though, as I'm sure that rizen and the other hosters have.
21:22 < bernd__> Deployment is probably rather a matter of the virtualization environment?
21:22 <+perlDreamer> yes
21:23 <+BartJol> SynQ isn't online that much anymore. You could try to send him a rpivate message via the webgui.org
21:24 < bernd__> I am going to search for his name in the forum.
21:24 <+BartJol> it's koen
21:24 < bernd__> Maybe, he has some good advoice.
21:24 < bernd__> SynQ is koen?
21:24 <+perlDreamer> yes
21:24 <+BartJol> I don't think thatsynq exists in the website
21:24 < bernd__> Ah, koen I know.
21:24 < bernd__> Thanks!
21:25 <+BartJol> np, you can bother him as much as you want, the lesser he is bothering me ;)
21:25 <+BartJol> (he's my boss)
21:26 < bernd__> BartJol, I am going to re-active my spam daemon!
21:26 < bernd__> Haven't used it in a while.
21:26 <+BartJol> :)
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21:31 <+BartJol> whoa, full house, new years spirit?
21:31  * SDuensin is always here.  :-)
21:37  * perlDreamer suspects that SDuensin is really just an augmented bot.
21:37 < khenn_> I'm just here so I can get my drama fix
21:37 < khenn_> =)
21:38  * crythias1 just wants everything he asks for. Right now.
21:39  * SDuensin is a bot that can write bots then.
21:39 < SDuensin> Is that life?
21:40 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@h19-afsc.ded.indra.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
21:40 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin: Given that it is a proven fact that I always lie, if I state that I am lying what is the result?
21:40 < SDuensin> That puzzle leads to alcohol.
21:40 <+crythias1> hrm. while (FALSE==FALSE) do ;
21:40 <+BartJol> alcohol? where?\
21:42  * SDuensin always has *some* kind of booze ready to roll.
21:42 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@h19-afsc.ded.indra.com] has joined #webgui
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21:42 < SDuensin> cap10morgan!  That's alcohol!
21:42 -!- ascii [n=ascii@host-64-234-39-193.nctv.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
21:42 -!- ascii [n=ascii@host-64-234-39-193.nctv.com] has joined #webgui
21:42 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin, you certainly sound alive, yet not sober, to me
21:44 < SDuensin> Unfortunately, the most potent thing I've had today was a hot cup of Earl Grey.
21:44 -!- khenn [n=khenn@24-159-227-44.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:45 <+BartJol> mmm, maybe I should move to something else than water
21:48 < dreamersgirl> it's gotta be noon somewhere in the world...
21:48 <+perlDreamer> it's after noon in BartJol's house
21:48 <+BartJol> far after noon
21:48 <+BartJol> you could call it evening
21:49 <+BartJol> hee dreamersgirl, how're you doing?
21:49 < dreamersgirl> good!
21:49 <+BartJol> nice
21:49 < dreamersgirl> how 'bout you?
21:49 <+BartJol> well, busy with my new house
21:49 <+BartJol> so good
21:49 < dreamersgirl> new house!?!
21:49 <+BartJol> indeed
21:49 < dreamersgirl> fun!
21:50 <+BartJol> yeah, I've got pictures
21:50 < dreamersgirl> oooh
21:50 < bernd__> How do we know you are not cheating?
21:50 <+BartJol> http://www.bartjol.nl/home/nieuw-huis
21:50 <+BartJol> me? cheating?
21:50 < bernd__> Ah, definitely not cheating :-P
21:51 < dreamersgirl> nice place!
21:51 <+BartJol> nope, it's really real
21:51 <+BartJol> yeah, lot to be done though
21:51 < dreamersgirl> congrats
21:52 < bernd__> No, I meant showing some impressive place instead.
21:52 <+BartJol> thanks
21:52 <+BartJol> ah, like buckingham palace or the white house
21:52 < bernd__> In any case, much better than the 30 m2 I have at the moment.
21:52 <+BartJol> ah, it will be 60 m2
21:52 < bernd__> You should not exaggerate! Otherwise it is too obvious.
21:53 <+BartJol> 60 isn't that big
21:53 < bernd__> That sounds reasonable.
21:53 < bernd__> Single?
21:53 <+BartJol> yup
21:53 < bernd__> Sufficient.
21:53 <+BartJol> but I plan to have a polygamous commune after may
21:53 < bernd__> Tolerant neighbors?
21:53 <+BartJol> dunno yet, my neighbour upstairs sounded nice
21:53 <+BartJol> the rest I don'
21:53 <+BartJol> t know yet'
21:54 < bernd__> Convince them to join your commune!
21:54 < bernd__> Only the females, of course.
21:54 < bernd__> The others are free to leave.
21:54 <+BartJol> that figures
21:55 < bernd__> BarJol, your homepage has not been translated completely yet!
21:55 < bernd__> Shame on you!
21:55 < bernd__> The gallery still shows some English labels!
21:56 <+BartJol> eeh, it's mostly a testsite, which happens to break once a week. you could almost call it a feature :)
21:56 <+BartJol> yeah, I like the english version better myself
21:56 < bernd__> Happy breaking in that case!
21:56 < bernd__> Did you get that letter finished?
21:56 <+BartJol> I did
21:56 < bernd__> Good!
21:57 < bernd__> Does that mean we can talk about appliances again?
21:57 < dreamersgirl> Speaking of translations, do the Dutch words "Nieuw huis" sound anything like "new house" in English?
21:57 <+BartJol> dreamersgirl: a bit
21:57 < bernd__> Can give in phonetic symbols, please?
21:57 < bernd__> you
21:57 <+BartJol> bernd__: yeah, but I think you'll be talking garbled crap to me quite soon
21:58 <+BartJol> ooh, webgui phonetic
21:58 < bernd__> crap?
21:58 < dreamersgirl> rizen would like that
21:58 < dreamersgirl> he speaks garbled crap quite well, I hear
21:58 < bernd__> phonetics?
21:58 <+perlDreamer> web gooey fone tik
21:58 <+perlDreamer> web gooey foe net ick
21:58 <+BartJol> bernd__: I mean I won't understand you, because I haven't eaten a lot of chees of that
21:59 < bernd__> I do not know much of it either.
21:59 < dreamersgirl> it's noon here...
21:59 < bernd__> What I want to talk about is the image.
21:59 < bernd__> What should it look like?
21:59 < bernd__> Which software?
21:59 < dreamersgirl> gotta go make lunch for a sick kid.  Later, guys!
21:59 < bernd__> Later!
21:59 <+perlDreamer> sick kid?  How about a hard working husband?
21:59 <+BartJol> ok, is that last thing you posted a good intro for me?
22:00 < bernd__> dreamersgirl your wife, perlDreamer?
22:00 < dreamersgirl> you really want plain rice and dry toast?
22:00 <+BartJol>  dreamersgirl, do that
22:00 <+perlDreamer> she's stuck with me, bernd__
22:00 < dreamersgirl> :)
22:00 <+BartJol> how far are you two actually apart?
22:00 <+perlDreamer> about 30 cm
22:00 < bernd__> perlDreamer, that is what happens if you spend too much time on the chat and neglect your wife!"
22:00 <+BartJol> :)
22:00 < dreamersgirl> he's working
22:00 < dreamersgirl> isn't he?
22:01 < bernd__> Sometimes.
22:01 <+BartJol> he's just chatting with is european friends
22:01 < bernd__> But can't be much at the frequency he is replying to my questions.
22:01 <+BartJol> s/is/his
22:01 < dreamersgirl> gotcha.
22:01 < dreamersgirl> now back to the dry toast...
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22:02 < bernd__> perlDreamer, don't you have nice European friends?
22:02 <+perlDreamer> I have very nice european friends
22:02 < bernd__> BartJol, back to garbled crap!
22:02 < bernd__> Which post?
22:03 <+BartJol> http://www.webgui.org/webgui/dev/discuss/ubuntu-packages/
22:03 < SDuensin> Hey, in the product variants, what's the difference between "vid" and "variantId"?
22:04 <+BartJol> SDuensin: where do you find those labels?
22:04 < bernd__> No! Not much of interest at the moment.
22:04 < SDuensin> When I Dumper::Dump a $variant.
22:04 < bernd__> My question is: what would you want such an image be able to do?
22:04 < bernd__> Which software should it come with?
22:04 < bernd__> What would be your preferred way of administrating it?
22:05 < bernd__> For example, should the wreconsole run by default?
22:05 <+BartJol> so an image of an OS that you wanna use for WebGUI?
22:05 < bernd__> ... to be run inside a virtual environment later on.
22:05 < bernd__> Exactly!
22:05 <+perlDreamer> vid = form variable used to store a variantId ?
22:06 < bernd__> The idea is to generate something easily deployable on root servers.
22:06 < bernd__> Just clone the image and start a new server!"
22:06 < bernd__> Like the appliance that is available already.
22:06 < bernd__> Just smaller.
22:06 <+BartJol> but aren't we looking for all features inside the wre plus some basics?
22:06 < bernd__> And more comfortable.
22:07 < SDuensin> I'm writing a de-duper.  Just curious.
22:07 < bernd__> Probably, still the WRE at the moment.
22:07 < bernd__> So let us talk about the basics.
22:07 < bernd__> e-Mail?
22:07 < bernd__> SSH?
22:07 < bernd__> IRC?
22:07 <+BartJol> it should be able to handle those indeed
22:07 < bernd__> FTP?
22:08 <+BartJol> well, ftp isn't used that much
22:08 <+BartJol> a readable firewall should be included
22:08 < bernd__> Which one?
22:08 <+BartJol> we use shorewall
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22:08 < bernd__> What about an admin tool?
22:08 <+BartJol> which is an interface for iptables
22:08 < bernd__> I like webmin, for example.
22:09 <+BartJol> admin tool for what exactly?
22:09 < bernd__> It has a module for configuring shorewall.
22:09 < bernd__> Everything.
22:09 < bernd__> Something like yast.
22:09 < bernd__> Just web-enabled.
22:09 <+BartJol> that has some downsides with security stuff
22:10 <+BartJol> I would more think in the direction of what xencentre is for xenserver
22:10 < bernd__> Works through secure http.
22:10 < bernd__> Safe enough?
22:10 <+BartJol> yeah, but a ssl certificate won't be optional
22:10 < bernd__> I have not worked with xenserver yet.
22:10 < bernd__> Why not use a private one?
22:10  * SDuensin has never managed to make Webmin work.  :-(
22:11 <+BartJol> last week I passed my administration xen exam
22:11 < bernd__> SDuensin, on ubuntu server you just install the deb package.
22:11 < SDuensin> bernd__ - I know, but I load all the optional crap and break it.  :-)
22:11 <+BartJol> actually that's easy, only a lot of facts
22:11 < bernd__> OOps, my accu is almost empty.
22:12 < bernd__> We need to go on some other time.
22:12 <+BartJol> ok
22:12 <+perlDreamer> what is an accu?
22:12 <+BartJol> a have wall current at home :)
22:12 <+BartJol> battery
22:13 < bernd__> Check this thread if you want to participate in the discussion: http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/dev/discuss/poll-wre-utilities-as-a-distribution/6/re-poll-wre-utilities-as-a-distribution
22:13 < bernd__> Yeah, battery. 
22:13 <+BartJol> but in Dutch (and prolly german) we have differnt words for rechargable batteries (accu) and none recharchable ones: batteries
22:13 < bernd__> Accu probably isn't English at all.
22:13 < bernd__> It means re-chargeable battery.
22:13 -!- ascii [n=ascii@host-64-234-39-193.nctv.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
22:14 <+perlDreamer> ah, thanks
22:14 <+BartJol> that link breaks with me
22:14 < bernd__> Ok. I need to shut down.
22:14 -!- bernd__ [n=spunky@tmo-100-46.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
22:15 < SDuensin> Ok, Ubuntu guys, why does SSH work but not SFTP on my server?
22:15 <+BartJol> strange
22:15 <+BartJol> I'd guess something with your FW
22:15 < SDuensin> It's all over 22, isn't it?
22:16  * SDuensin wants to edit his remote crap with Coda.
22:16 <+BartJol> ssh is 443 i thought
22:16 <+BartJol> ssl is 22 if I'm correct
22:16 < SDuensin> Backwards.
22:16 < SDuensin> But then again, you are on the other side of the planet.  :-)
22:17 <+BartJol> mmm
22:17 <+BartJol> oh yeah, I'm confused
22:17 <@plainhao> sftp needs to be enabled as a service in your ssh_config
22:17 < danny_mk> Good new year everyone, any plans for the 2009 conference yet?
22:18 < SDuensin> plainhao - I did that.  :-/
22:18 <@plainhao> d'oh, nevermind then :)
22:18 <+BartJol> something with beer in the hotel bar at the end of the day danny_mk
22:18 < danny_mk> sure, would like to see a presentation on the Authentication modules, specifically the OpenId authentication :-)
22:19 < danny_mk> boy, new year, same crap :-)
22:19 <+BartJol> well, offer to do it yourself
22:19 <+BartJol> JT will be glad with it I think
22:19 < danny_mk> I can do like a new install, probably 20min or so
22:19 < danny_mk> Explain how it works
22:20 < danny_mk> lord, come to think about it, I talk to much :-)
22:20 < danny_mk> maybe 40min
22:20 <+BartJol> danny_mk: just ask him whether he think that will be a good idea
22:20 <+BartJol> just give an idea how you wanna build up your presentation
22:21 <+BartJol> he'll disagree as he feels fit
22:21 < danny_mk> I think JT will be working on OpenId authorization for 8.x.x
22:21 <+BartJol> yeah, but he's always busy around the wuc
22:22 < danny_mk> I guess I will ask when we are closer to the conference
22:22 < danny_mk> which is usually in the fall, right?
22:22 <+perlDreamer> danny_mk, I think he's just rewriting the underlying Auth interface
22:22 <+BartJol> the 2 I went to were in august and october
22:22 <+perlDreamer> and probably the WebGUI and LDAP plugins
22:22 <+perlDreamer> it's september this year?
22:23 <+BartJol> I dunno, we should ask Ryan
22:23 < danny_mk> Hopefully I will not have to judge any canaries during the week of the conference
22:23 <+BartJol> canaries?
22:23 <+BartJol> small birds?
22:24 < danny_mk> My schedule usually starts the last weekend in September
22:24 < danny_mk> Yes, small birds
22:24 < danny_mk> www.canarysave.com
22:24 <+BartJol> pheew, it's a webgui site ;)
22:24 < danny_mk> LOL
22:24 < danny_mk> of course
22:25 <+BartJol> but if you can announce it this early, you should be ok, right?
22:25 < danny_mk> sure
22:25 <+BartJol> I'd like to meet new people
22:25 <+BartJol> if I'm allowed to go
22:26 < danny_mk> my new boss seems pretty flexible, as long as I do some work from there I think he will be happy
22:27 <+BartJol> and I haven't seen any small birds at the wuc lunches so far
22:27 < danny_mk> LOL, other than a penguin, you probably wont
22:27 < danny_mk> I really hate the WebGUI captcha image :-(
22:27 <+BartJol> :)
22:28 < danny_mk> Can't wait to possibly get ReCaptcha working
22:28 <+BartJol> maybe make a rfe with a suggestion for another captcha tool
22:29 < danny_mk> that is already in the works
22:29 < danny_mk> I have seen conversations on here about a reCaptcha implementation, just waiting until it is done
22:29 <+BartJol> ah, once again I'm too slow :)
22:31 < SDuensin> ssh is angering me greatly.
22:32 < danny_mk> perlDreamer:  would love to know what his thoughts are on the Auth interface
22:32  * plainhao assumes SDuesin restarted ssh?
22:32 < SDuensin> Yup.
22:33 < SDuensin> The only clue I get is on the client side:   subsystem request failed on channel 0
22:33 < SDuensin> I checked the location of my sftp-server binary, made sure world can execute it, restarted ssh again.
22:33 <+perlDreamer> danny_mk, given that I talked about Auth in my Common WebGUI Programming Mistakes talk last year, I'd say it's just due for a complete overhaul and modernization.
22:33 < danny_mk> is there a public document I can read on the new implementation?
22:35 <+perlDreamer> no
22:35 < danny_mk> guess I will have to wait until 8.x.x
22:35 <+perlDreamer> I have the feeling that he knows what he wants to change, but hasn't formalized anything yet
22:45 < danny_mk> perlDreamer: is there a video of your talk about "Common WebGUI Programming Mistakes"?  specifically about Auth
22:46 < SDuensin> Ok, I figured out my ssh problem.  I was being stupid.  It's "sshd_config", not "ssh_config"!  Doh!
22:46 <+perlDreamer> yes, it's on wgtv
22:46 <+perlDreamer> or should be soon
22:46 < danny_mk> looking there now
22:47 < danny_mk> 2008 right?  
22:49 -!- plainhao [i=d04b55ed@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-9c96bb35fa94c958] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"]
22:49 <@rizen> bopbop is putting up a bunch of new vids this week so it may be in that grouping
22:49 <+perlDreamer> 2008, yes
22:49 <@bopbop> it's not up yet, but it can be
22:49 <@bopbop> I'll look for the tape tonight
22:49 <@rizen> if it's not already out there and it's not in that grouping then you'll have to wait on it. we only put out a few new vids per month
22:50 < danny_mk> OK
22:51 <+perlDreamer> rizen, if you have time, you might want to read back through the logs and make sure I didn't mislead danny_mk about the new Auth in wG 8.
22:51 < danny_mk> rizen: any interest in a OpenId presentation?
22:51 <@rizen> danny_mk: do you mean for WUC 2009?
22:51 < danny_mk> yes
22:51 <@rizen> absolutely
22:52 < danny_mk> I want to make sure I can take some time off the week of the conference, the sooner we find out when and where the better chance I will have to attend
22:52 <@rizen> you can demo the module you've created, talk about open id in general and why it's good, and maybe even show off openid in WebGUI 8
22:52 < danny_mk> NY would be great :-)
22:52 <@rizen> it's in madison wi
22:54 <+BartJol> the concourse hotel to be precise
22:54 <@rizen> september 9-11
22:54 <@rizen> wed - fri
22:54 <@rizen> that's when it will be
22:54 < topsub>  /cheer
22:54 < danny_mk> OK
22:54 <+perlDreamer> back to a 3-day format?  is does that include tutorials?
22:55 <+BartJol> ah, he's hoping that the dutchies will crash into a building
22:56 <+BartJol> sorry, bad taste alert
22:58 <+perlDreamer> not a problem, BartJol.
22:58 <+perlDreamer> InterPol will be there in 10 minutes in any case
22:59 <+BartJol> here, or at JT's house?
23:00 <@rizen> yes, 3 day format
23:00 <@rizen> and yes it will include workshops
23:00 <+BartJol> cool
23:00 <@rizen> 3 days, 3 tracks
23:00 <+BartJol> whoa, that will be busy
23:05 < danny_mk> Hmmm... when do I get some of that juicy OpenId rfe karma :-)
23:05 < SDuensin> Hey perlDreamer - This script finds my duplicates, but how to I write what I want back to the database using the nice and safe API?  http://webgui.pastebin.com/m351280fa
23:06 <@rizen> danny_mk every time you update it in the bazaar you get karma
23:07 <@rizen> and if you are featured as PBWG you get karma
23:07 <@rizen> which you should probably be (bopbop please add danny_mk to the list for PBWG)
23:08 <@rizen> and this year, for the first time, you'll get karma for both attending and presenting at the wuc
23:08 <+BartJol> it's a list? I thought I was special ;)
23:08 <@rizen> yes BartJol you are forever the only PBWG 
23:08 <@rizen> =)
23:08 <+BartJol> rather not, I'm getting fraked out by my own picture
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23:20 < danny_mk> I still have to write the tests for the Auth module, probably using WWW::Mechanize, that may be a bit of a challenge.
23:22 <+crythias1> hrm.
23:27 < CIA-45> WebGUI: jt * r9154 /experimental/Automat/sbin/migration/checkXrcVsAutomat.pl: test
23:29 < SDuensin> Go Go Automat!
23:32 <@rizen> danny_mk: http://www.webgui.org/wuc/2009-call-for-participation
23:33 < danny_mk> Hmmm... I have never written a bio
23:33 < danny_mk> I guess I will have to write one now, 
23:34 < danny_mk> brb
23:39 <+perlDreamer> danny_mk, the bios can be very informal
23:40 < danny_mk> Would a title like:  The OpenId::Auth module be OK?
23:40 <+perlDreamer> danny_mk is a canary-judging, perl hacking machine who lives in $self->getHome and dreams of a world where OpenId is the auth mechanism of choice
23:40 < danny_mk> of course not very creative :-(
23:40 < danny_mk> LOL
23:41 < danny_mk> hmmm... I like that :-)
23:41 < danny_mk> I think I will use it
23:41 < SDuensin> Hey perlDreamer - This script finds my duplicates, but how to I write what I want back to the database using the nice and safe API?  http://webgui.pastebin.com/m351280fa
23:43 -!- elnino [n=ninow@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #webgui
23:44 < elnino> Hi. My network administrator wants to move our production webserver to a virtual host. I cringe at the thought. Do others have thoughts about having production servers on virtual servers? I suppose as long as the hardware can support it and the other virtual servers it's fine?
23:45 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin: use the deleteCollateral method to remove the duplicate
23:45 < elnino> server would be running zen server and may have four virtual servers.
23:45 <+perlDreamer> the problem being, of course, if you have duplicate ids in the JSON that it might return either entry
23:45 < SDuensin> Does setCollateral not check for dupes?  Pretty sure that's what got me in trouble here.
23:46 <+perlDreamer> setCollateral does not care
23:47 < SDuensin> Then it is EVIL!  :-)
23:47 <+perlDreamer> Do you own a hammer?
23:47 < SDuensin> Why, yes.  I just fixed a Big Wheel with it.
23:47 <+perlDreamer> Then you know that if you hit a window with it that bad things will happen.
23:48 < SDuensin> Bad things always happen in Windows.
23:48 <+perlDreamer> The hammer will not arrest its movement if you use it the wrong way
23:48 < SDuensin> Hey man, I just used some crazy dude's sample code.  :-P
23:48  * perlDreamer remembers that he's probably responsible for the sample code
23:49  * SDuensin grins
23:49 <+crythias1> elnino I'm running on vps
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23:49 <+crythias1> serveraxis
23:50 <+crythias1> although, it's pretty much all that's running, WebGUI is doing OK on it.
23:50 < elnino> So, should I take webgui's requirements and multiply it by four? at least when he goes buying the server?
23:51 <+BartJol> perlDreamer: I've got one again: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/9402
23:51 <+crythias1> elnino: I think I've missed your requirements.
23:51 < elnino> welll, webgui's requirements. =)
23:52 < elnino> right now, it's on it's own server, and I have no idea what else he wants to put on the other virtual servers.
23:52 <+crythias1> yes, but are you doing 4 webgui sites one per vps, one webgui per four vps, or 4 on one?
23:52 < elnino> so I figured it should be four time more powerful of a server. =)
23:52 < elnino> no, i have two sites on one install of webgui - on one virtual server.
23:52 < elnino> but it's our corporate website.
23:52 <+crythias1> is the intention to use your own hardware or outsource?
23:52 < elnino> own hardware.
23:53 < CIA-45> WebGUI: translation * r9155 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Asset_Matrix.pm: Update from translation server
23:54 <+crythias1> then I'd say quadruple webgui. Otherwise, I'd scale as needed from outsource. I'm paying $65/month for unmetered vps, forinstance.
23:54 <+perlDreamer> BartJol: done
23:54 <+perlDreamer> fix will be out with the next release
23:54 <+BartJol> darn, you're quick
23:54 <+crythias1> erm.. $60
23:55 <+crythias1> http://serveraxis.com/vps.php 1gb RAM, 100GB hd, 10mbit unmetered bandwidth.
23:56 <@rizen> elnino: here's a good rule of thumb
23:56 <@rizen> 1 core x 1gb ram will give you about 20,000 page views per day while keeping your load under 1.0
23:57 <@rizen> the same logic works on a vps
23:58 <+perlDreamer> that's 1 page view every 5 seconds
23:58 <@rizen> the same logic works on a vps except that the VPS has it's IO tied up by the other slices
23:59 <@rizen> perlDreamer: yeah i know, but it takes into account a few things like page complexity, background processing (workflow), etc
23:59 <@rizen> and keeping the load under 1.0
23:59 < elnino> can you explian "under 1.0" 1.0 of what?
23:59 <@rizen> which means that you're not stressing the server at all
23:59 <@rizen> load is a hard thing to define elnino
23:59 < elnino> what do you use to measure load?
--- Day changed Tue Jan 06 2009
00:00 <@rizen> but generally speaking a load of 1.0 or less means that the server is not being taxed
00:00 <@rizen> type w
00:00 < SDuensin> It's the number of processes waiting to run in the task queue, isn't it?
00:00 <@rizen> at the command line
00:00 <@rizen> no
00:00 <+perlDreamer> uptime
00:00 <@rizen> a load of 1 means that the server is not having to "share" compute cycles between processes
00:00 <@rizen> as in it's able to process everything in real time
00:01 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin, please pastebin me some bad product variant JSON so i can see it
00:01 < SDuensin> Right.  Nothing is stacked up.
00:01 < SDuensin> perlDreamer - Sure.
00:01 <@rizen> that gets fuzzy though, when you start talking about threading, multiple-cores, hyperthreading, multiple CPU's etc
00:01 < SDuensin> rizen - true
00:01 <@perlmonkey2> Anyone want to join in on the quest to figure out a robust solution to the SC's synopsis regex's and wide chars?  The regex hangs on byte strings like Arabic.  
00:02 < SDuensin> perlDreamer - Here's the last one in my database:   http://webgui.pastebin.com/m50a50c9e
00:04 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin, if they're all exact duplicates like that, then deleteCollateral will work fine
00:04 <+BartJol> perlDreamer: and another : http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/9403
00:04 < SDuensin> It won't take them both?
00:05 <+perlDreamer> no
00:05 <@rizen> anyway elnino, the point was that the number of sites on your server is pretty much irrelevant, it's more about the number of page views you're dealing with vs the amount of hardware that you have available, vs how much load you can stomach
00:05  * SDuensin didn't look up the source yet.
00:05 <+perlDreamer> it finds the first index
00:05 < SDuensin> perlDreamer - Excellent.  Thanks bud!  (I *will* back up first!)
00:05 <@rizen> i like to keep the load on our servers to less than 1.0 during normal usage so that we have plenty of resources available during peak usage
00:05 <+perlDreamer> You're welcome.  especially since I helped create the mess that you're in...
00:05 <@rizen> however, many people run their servers at a much higher load
00:06 < elnino> thanks rizen... I had to step to the phone, but am back.. Does the vps server up as the virtual servers need? or does it say "you get this you get that, and that's it"?
00:06 < SDuensin> perlDreamer - No worries.  :-)
00:07 <@rizen> elnino: most of them define fixed resources in advance
00:07 < elnino> ah. good to know...
00:07 <@perlmonkey2> load average: 10.06, 10.45, 8.91  :D
00:08 < elnino> is that high?  the server I'm look at is: load average: 0.00, 0.02, 0.00  ;P
00:08 <@rizen> perlmonkey2: is that one of our servers? if so i'm wondeirng why we aren't being paged
00:08 <@perlmonkey2> rizen: no, my server
00:08 < elnino> but that is a different server than what I'm talking about. I'm curious as to what that one is....
00:09 < elnino> .42, .37, .23,,  I'm thinking I don't have much to worry about at this time...
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00:09 < elnino> or is that the load my user is causing at this particular time?
00:10 <@rizen> that's just your load over the last 10 minutes or so
00:10 <@rizen> you should check it several times through-out the day
00:10 <@rizen> and if you know when your peak usage is, you should check the load at that time
00:10 <+BartJol> perlmonkey2: I suppose you also made the i18n for the survey?
00:10 < elnino> it's be nice if there was a report of the load. that can be emailed me each day.  Any suggested software?
00:11 <+BartJol> what do you mean with Section branch goto variable name:
00:11 <+BartJol> I think I understand
00:11 <+BartJol> but not sure
00:12 <@rizen> elnino: what you want is SNMP monitoring with graphing
00:12 <@perlmonkey2> BartJol: the end of a section can branch, but needs a variable name to go to.  Questions and sections have variable names, and the target variable name would go into the goto variable name.
00:12 <@perlmonkey2> BartJol: patspam has made that a drop down and will be merged at the next oppurtunity.  The drop down should make it much easier to understand.
00:12 <@rizen> the most common free one on the net is MRTG
00:12 <@rizen> http://oss.oetiker.ch/mrtg/
00:13 < elnino> great! thanks! I'll look into that.
00:13 <@rizen> but you still have to set it u
00:13 <@rizen> up
00:13 <+BartJol> thanks perlmonkey2
00:14 <@perlmonkey2> BartJol: anything for you Bart :P
00:15 < elnino> rizen. that's for when we own the hardware and router.  My network guy most likely has something setup like that. if not, I'll recommend it to him. Do you recommend anything when the hardware is outsourced? I work with both situations (own and outsourced).
00:15 <+BartJol> ok then: drop your trousers
00:16 <+BartJol> and what is a terminal in the survey perlmonkey2
00:16 <+BartJol> ?
00:16 <@perlmonkey2> a URL
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00:16 <+BartJol> and a terminal section?
00:17 < elnino> rizen, that first sentence was supposed to be a question.... 
00:18 <+BartJol> perlmonkey2: what is a terminal section?
00:19 <@rizen> elnino: you can use mrtg with that...but there are other tools too when you want to do more stuff
00:19 <@perlmonkey2> BartJol: a section which upon completion will end the survey and if there is a survey or section terminal url given, it will forward to that url.
00:19 <@rizen> like OpenNMS for example
00:19 <@rizen> at Plain Black we use Zabbix
00:20 <+BartJol> ok, that's clear
00:20 <@rizen> it does monitoring, and we can also use it for data trending
00:20 <@rizen> like monitoring load activity on servers and generating pretty graphs
00:20 < CIA-45> WebGUI: colin * r9156 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix a typo in the i18n help for the ITransact Pay Driver.
00:20 < CIA-45> WebGUI: colin * r9157 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): backporting i18n fix for PayDriver ITransact.
00:20 < CIA-45> WebGUI: translation * r9158 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (Shop.pm Asset_MatrixListing.pm PayDriver_ITransact.pm): Update from translation server
00:20 < CIA-45> WebGUI: colin * r9159 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (12 files in 3 dirs): 
00:20 < CIA-45> WebGUI: Large batch of Help and i18n. Also, make sure that the
00:20 < CIA-45> WebGUI: Shop plugin for the Account always has an array ref in it.
00:20 < CIA-45> WebGUI: colin * r9160 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix some Survey i18n typos in the time limit hoverhelp.
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00:22 <+BartJol> well, I'm up at a 100% again, luckily it will be a lot lower later this week
00:29 <+BartJol> so go ahead perlDreamer, make my day
00:29 <+perlDreamer> I'm just trying to keep you gainfully employed, BartJol
00:30 <+BartJol> too bad it is scrapped from my duties at procolix
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00:31 <+perlDreamer> huh?
00:31 <+perlDreamer> no way!
00:33 <+BartJol> way
00:34 <+BartJol> now I've gotta find a way to make it fun
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00:35 <+BartJol> allthough I don't mind finding the typ-o's in the english i18n
00:35 <+BartJol> it gives me lots of karma :)
00:39 <+perlDreamer> 10 karma for each typo
00:40 <+perlDreamer> Do you know why your job responsibilities changed?
00:41 <+BartJol> well, I don't think we really get more customers from translating WebGUI and it takes huge amounts of time
00:41 <+BartJol> it's a money thing
00:41 < elnino> rizen - dang phone.... thanks for the info!
00:50 < CIA-45> WebGUI: translation * r9161 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Asset_Survey.pm: Update from translation server
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01:29 <+BartJol> morning Radix-wrk
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07:36 < CIA-45> WebGUI: translation * r9162 /translations/German/German/Account_Inbox.pm: Update from translation server
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12:58 < bernd__> Hey BartJol!
12:58 < bernd__> Sorry for my sudden disappearance yesterday.
12:58 < bernd__> But I was not at home.
12:59 <+BartJol> hey
13:00 <+BartJol> don't mind, and you did announce your accu going low
13:00 < bernd__> You mean battery :-)
13:00 <+BartJol> yeah :)
13:01 < bernd__> BartJol, does procolix rent out root servers?
13:01 <+BartJol> so you wanna have root access?
13:02 <+BartJol> I have to ask
13:03 <+BartJol> but you have limited garantuees
13:03 <+BartJol> I mean, yes we do, but you have limited garantuees
13:07 <+BartJol> bernd__: if you want to have an offer just mail us
13:08 <+BartJol> I was gonna say invoice :)
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13:09 < bernd2> BartJol, I think I missed your reply.
13:09 <+BartJol> prolly you missed my comments
13:09 < bernd2> My connection was interrupted.
13:09 <+BartJol> BartJol: so you wanna have root access?
13:09 <+BartJol> BartJol: I have to ask
13:09 <+BartJol> BartJol: but you have limited garantuees
13:09 <+BartJol> BartJol: I mean, yes we do, but you have limited garantuees
13:09 <+BartJol> BartJol: bernd__: if you want to have an offer just mail us
13:09 <+BartJol> BartJol: I was gonna say invoice :)
13:10 < bernd2> Do you have a rough idea how much you bill per month?
13:10 <+BartJol> actually, no
13:11 <+BartJol> SynQ's the man for that
13:11 < bernd2> This is the best offer I have found so far: http://www.junior-server.de/
13:11 < bernd2> The plans for EUR29 and EUR39 are interesting to me.
13:11 < bernd2> Do you think procolix could compete with that?
13:12 <+BartJol> I would have to ask
13:12 <+BartJol> and it is lunchtime
13:12 < bernd2> Better to send an email to Koen?
13:12 <+BartJol> yeah
13:12 <+BartJol> with some specs
13:12 < bernd2> Good. Going to do that then.
13:12 <+BartJol> you'll get a VM
13:12 <+BartJol> prolly
13:13 < bernd2> What does "prolly" mean?
13:13 <+BartJol> probably
13:13 < bernd2> Ah, I have looked it up.
13:13 < bernd2> You spend too much time on the chat with those Americans.
13:13 <+BartJol> :)
13:14 < bernd2> I assume it is perlDreamer who is spoiling your English.
13:14 <+BartJol> I learned that from martin
13:14 <+BartJol> fooood
13:15 < bernd2> Guten Appetit!
13:15 < bernd2> How to say that in dutch?
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13:54 <+BartJol> plainhao: you're an early morning type
14:00 <@plainhao> not really :)
14:01 <+BartJol> but, you're the new dev guy/girl?
14:01 <@plainhao> yep
14:01 <+BartJol> nice
14:02 <@plainhao> how long did it take you to get comfortable with webgui?
14:02 <+BartJol> well, my story is quite strange and long
14:02 <@plainhao> oh, haha
14:02 <+BartJol> I started with translating, then moved to front end support
14:03 <+BartJol> now I'm moving into the backend area
14:03 <+BartJol> but without a lot of programming experience, this is taking its fair amount of time
14:04 <@plainhao> good thing there's documentation
14:04 <+BartJol> yeah and when I code, I just steal ideas from existing code
14:06 <@preaction> it took me 6-8 months really
14:06 <@plainhao> ok
14:06 <@preaction> and i cursed just about everybody on the way
14:06 <@plainhao> haha, even rizen?
14:06 <@preaction> especially jt
14:06 <+BartJol> yeah, but you have a natural ability for cursing preaction
14:07 <@preaction> if it's story time: Version 5 of WG was not object oriented. the session "object" was a globally-scoped hash
14:07 <@preaction> i wasn;t here for that, thank god
14:07 <@plainhao> that sounds ok to me :)
14:08 <@preaction> heh, you do mason work then?
14:08 <@plainhao> a little bit
14:08 <@preaction> $::session{url} <- the $:: construct was introduced to me with mason
14:09 <@preaction> i believe the problem became mod-perl's handling of globally-scoped variables (they never hit the GC)
14:09 <@plainhao> yeah
14:09 <@preaction> but the real problem is in the design: a global is a piece of magic
14:10 <@plainhao> well, you just have to put a lot of trust in the developers
14:10 <@preaction> that's a good idea for a small project with few developers under your direct control
14:10 <@preaction> webgui is a large project, a framework plus a CMS, with diverse developers and a community of contributers who have varying levels of programming experience with languages other than Perl
14:11 <@preaction> so the strictly perly constructs can lead to problems
14:12 <@preaction> but foremost the api/framework must remain safe from the casual errors of programmers (if not also the maliious intents of programmers)
14:13  * plainhao agrees
14:13 <@preaction> that being said, there is a WebGUI Developer's Guide that does a very good job of reaching in-between the lines of the POD
14:14 <@preaction> which you're entitled to as a pb employee, and which may in fact already be on its way to your house
14:14 <@preaction> i believe that jamie vrbsky (vrby) would be the person to ask about that, or frank
14:15  * plainhao thinks frank sent them yesterday
14:15 <+BartJol> preaction: do you think it can harm if I manually delete complete workflowinstances from the db?
14:15 <+BartJol> were reaching to 300 a page of them
14:16 <@preaction> BartJol: yes. "complete" means one activity completed. "done" means all activities are completed
14:16 <+BartJol> mmm
14:16 <+BartJol> but they don't seem to get done
14:16 <@preaction> you might want to check which activity is next
14:16 <@preaction> there's a lastCompleted field i think
14:16 <@preaction> lastActivity maybe?
14:17 <+BartJol> lastStatus
14:17 <@preaction> then match that one up to the activityId in the WorkflowActivity table
14:17 <+BartJol> and currentActivityId
14:17 <@preaction> current, yes
14:17 <+BartJol> ah
14:17 <@preaction> if they're all the same, something strange might be happening, or perhaps there's too much to complete
14:20 <+BartJol> well most of them are to get syndicated content
14:21 <+BartJol> 310 of 330
14:24 <+BartJol> but that's in 1 site, but the rest seem to be compliant to that
14:26 <@preaction> do you have 310 syndicated content assets in that site?
14:26 <+BartJol> nope, as far as I know none
14:27 <+BartJol> it's just in the hourly workflow\
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14:29 <+BartJol> here's a list of the queries I got in the log at debug level: http://www.webgui.org/etcetera/database-cache-gives-an-error/6#id3RRcYPlQPdndEB62BJJEgg
14:30 <+BartJol> mm, there's a PB asset in there, maybe that should be purged
14:33 <@preaction> BartJol: does the workflow instance id "qjHOGGdOUU56GNmJAYaPDQ" still exist in your database?
14:35 <+BartJol> no
14:35 <+BartJol> mysql> select * from WorkflowInstance where instanceId="qjHOGGdOUU56GNmJAYaPDQ";
14:35 <+BartJol> Empty set (0.01 sec)
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14:37 <+BartJol> sorry, wrong db
14:38 <+BartJol> confusing when you remove the site name\
14:42 <+BartJol> no it does not
14:42 <+BartJol> even in the right db
14:45 <+BartJol> sorry that it took some time preaction
14:46 <@preaction> then they are getting deleted eventually. perhaps you need to set spectre to run through workflows more quickly?
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14:50 <+BartJol> ok spectre settings:
14:50 <+BartJol> "maxWorkers" : 4,
14:50 <+BartJol> "timeBetweenRunningWorkflows" : 10,
14:50 <+BartJol> "suspensionDelay" : 60,
14:50 <+BartJol> "ignoreEnvProxy" : 0
14:54 <+BartJol> after consulting the administrator guide I set the timebetween workflows to 4 sec
14:56 <+BartJol> now running spectre in debug mode
14:59 <+BartJol> with this amount of workflow a setting of 2 seemed even better
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15:51 < CIA-46> WebGUI: yung * r9163 /branch/survey-rfe/ (4 files in 2 dirs): rfe 9198: Turn Survey Edit Section/Question/Answer fields into RTEs
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16:35 <+BartJol> preaction: the amount of workflows seems to steadily decrease at a rate of 20-25 sites a minute
16:37 <+BartJol> only 9 hours and it should be around 0 again...
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18:04 < SDuensin> Greetings.
18:05 <+BartJol> morning SDuensin
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18:10 < elnino_laptop> hi.   did the new gallery get released yet? or is that 7.6?
18:11 < SDuensin> Hi elnino_laptop.   Dunno that one.
18:13 <+BartJol> isn't that even 7.5?
18:14 <+BartJol> or will there be another gallery too?
18:18 < elnino_laptop> it is. but I just saw this http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/roadmap, so I'll read up on when gallery 2.0 will be expected.
18:19 < SDuensin> I'm gonna guess "when it's done".
18:20 < elnino_laptop> yeah, I just saw this: "Also, please do not contact Plain Black about release dates for these features. We don't publish them, and we won't tell you if you ask."  Even thought they did announce at wuc, I just don't remember what version they talked about.  
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18:41 < CIA-46> WebGUI: translation * r9164 /translations/German/German/Asset_GalleryAlbum.pm: Update from translation server
18:55 < bernd_> perlDreamer, is there any reason that all the help modules are named "<something> variables"?
18:55 < bernd_> The word "variables" seems pretty superfluous to me.
18:55 < bernd_> I am thinking to get rid of it in the German translation.
18:55 < bernd_> What do you think?
18:55 <+perlDreamer> I'm not following you bernd_.  Can you give me 1 example?
18:56 < bernd_> I am talking about modules listed in the help overview.
18:56 < bernd_> Example: Matrix Main Template Variables
18:56 < bernd_> Isn't it all about variables?
18:57 <+perlDreamer> I see.  At one point, there were other entries too.
18:57 <+perlDreamer> then they got removed
18:57 < bernd_> Do you think there will be other entries, again?
18:57 < SDuensin> Hey gang.
18:57 <+perlDreamer> I don't think so
18:57 < bernd_> Currently, it just makes names longer.
18:57 < bernd_> So, safe to remove it?
18:58 < bernd_> The same is probably true for "template".
18:59 < jmarsden> bernd_: I made a test JEOS VM last night, and the webgui .deb works fine in it.  See http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/dev/discuss/poll-wre-utilities-as-a-distribution/14
18:59 < bernd_> Cool!
19:00 < bernd_> I am thinking about creating an appliance based on JeOS.
19:00  * plainhao 's laptop fan is spinning out of control.
19:00 < bernd_> That will be a good testing ground.
19:00 < bernd_> jmarsden, thanks for the good work!
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19:00 < bernd_> I am really happy about ubuntu packages being available now.
19:00 < SDuensin> They are?  Cool!
19:00 < bernd_> SDuensin, check the URL he just posted.
19:01 < SDuensin> In a product, how do I get the keywords associated with it?  I've looked over the code for product, sku, and asset and can't find it.
19:01 < jmarsden> No problem.  I also heard back from Ernesto in email, I found one minor bug in his packaging... we're talking -- hopefully we can work together to get the .deb officially into both Debian and Ubuntu
19:02 < bernd_> Even better!
19:02 < bernd_> I just read you have prepared an image already.
19:02 < bernd_> Ever tried to run with kvm?
19:03 < bernd_> I learned JeOS is optimized either for kvm or vmware.
19:03 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin, check the process method in Asset.pm
19:03 < SDuensin> perlDreamer - checking!  Thanks.
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19:04 <@tavisto> plainhao, you know about the smcfan control app for mac right? It's pretty cool if you want to control your fan speed & cpu temp
19:04 < jmarsden> bernd_: I don't have a CPU with the VM hardware (my desktop is an E5200), so no, I have not used KVM.  I use virtualbox-ose mostly for VMs under Linux.
19:05 < bernd_> What is the best virtualization environment according to your experience?
19:05 < SDuensin> perlDreamer - Dunno how I missed that.  Thanks bud!
19:05  * SDuensin uses a LOT of VMware.
19:05 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin, you're welcome
19:06 < SDuensin> For Linux-on-Linux, something like Xen is probably more efficient.  But for general VMs (I even have a DOS one running), VMWare server is my favorite.
19:06 < bernd_> But vmware is not free, correct?
19:06 < bernd_> It is just the vmplayer.
19:06 < jmarsden> It's all a matter of "best for what", I think.  VMware is everywhere and runs under Windows as well, which is good for appliances intended as "try it and see" tools for newcomers.  I need to go to work now (!), but hopefully will post info on creating the image with vmbuilder later -- then people can build an image using KVM or VMware or whatever they prefer
19:07 < SDuensin> perlDreamer - rather than enter all those ring sizes by hand, I'm doing another script.  :-)
19:07 < jmarsden> VMware Server 2 is now no-cost.  It is not free as it free software...
19:07 < bernd_> Great!
19:07 < bernd_> I am probably going to be your first tester!
19:07 < bernd_> Looking forward to it.
19:07 < SDuensin> Yep!  I run VMWare Server 2.0 on my main server.  That's all it does.  Any actual services are in VMs.
19:07 < SDuensin> Makes upgrading easy.  Build a bigger, faster machine - just copy the VMs over.
19:08 < SDuensin> Anyway, BBIAB.
19:08 < jmarsden> OK, sounds good.  Nice to "meet" you folks here on IRC.  I'm off to work... bye for now!
19:08 < bernd_> SDuensin, do you need an IP per guest?
19:08 < bernd_> Or is it possible to get around that.
19:08 < bernd_> ?
19:12 < jmarsden> I suspect you could put each image on a Host-only "virtual network" inside the host machine and then route stuff port by port from the real LAN to different VMs... but I have not tried that; I just use bridged mode and one IP per VM here.
19:15 -!- bernd__ [n=spunky@tmo-082-156.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #webgui
19:15 -!- bernd__ is now known as bernd2
19:16 <+perlDreamer> what's what this world needs, more bernd's
19:16 -!- CIA-46 [n=CIA@208.69.182.149] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
19:16 < bernd2> Now we have two at least!
19:16 <+perlDreamer> and a young one in development
19:16 < bernd2> perlDreamer, can you kick bernd_, pleas?
19:16 <+perlDreamer> I am without kick privileges
19:16 < bernd2> She is rather an Anke (her mother).
19:17 < bernd2> Hm, can I kick my former self myself?
19:17 <+perlDreamer> I think you have to be a channel op
19:17 < bernd2> :-(
19:18  * bernd2 hates wireless connections.
19:18 <+perlDreamer> tavisto: could you please do a "slash kick bernd_" ?
19:18 -!- bernd_ was kicked from #webgui by rizen [rizen]
19:18 <@tavisto> I'd rather do a slash kick perlDreamer
19:18 < bernd2> Thanks, rizen!
19:19 < bernd2> Was probably fun kicking me =)
19:19 <@tavisto> and then a reverse roundhouse kick to finish him off.... like chuck norris
19:19 <+perlDreamer> tavisto, I thought you'd prefer a hack slash punch perlDreamer
19:19 < bernd2> What about the "chop into pieces" part?
19:20 <+perlDreamer> chopped perlDreamers are not good at fixing bugs
19:20 <+perlDreamer> but the bruised and bloody ones seem to get by
19:26 < SDuensin> bernd2 - I use an IP per guest, yes.  You can do different network types:  Bridged, NAT, and Host Only...
19:27 < bernd2> Thanks.
19:27 < SDuensin> Bridged is like a real PC.  It gets it's own IP.
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19:27 < bernd2> I am going to try them all :-)
19:27 < SDuensin> NAT shares the IP of the host, but is outbound only.
19:27 < bernd2> Is it difficult to get additional IPs for a root server?
19:27 < SDuensin> Host Only assigns a private IP on a network only available to the host and the VM.
19:27 < bernd2> Talking about public ones.
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19:28 < SDuensin> Depends on who the provider is.  Most will allow you to purchase more if you can justify them.
19:29 < bernd2> For hosting of multiple webgui appliances on a single root server you would require an IP per appliance, correct?
19:29 < SDuensin> Yep.
19:30 < bernd2> Good. Or rather bad. But now I know for sure.
19:30 < bernd2> Thanks.
19:30 < SDuensin> hehe
19:30 < SDuensin> Like I said, most places will sell you additional IPs (I think my second one is a whole dollar a month) if you can justify the need.
19:30 <@perlmonkey2> bernd2: you can /nick your ghost
19:30 <@perlmonkey2> in the future
19:31 < bernd2> Ah. I will try to remember!
19:31 < bernd2> Thanks.
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19:40 < SDuensin> Man, it's killing me to add all these variants.  Maybe I need to spend time on 'Plan B'.
19:42 < deafferret> SDuensin: joining the circus?
19:44 <+perlDreamer> what is Plan B?
19:47 <@perlmonkey2> SDuensin: What's plan B?
19:48 < SDuensin> Add an optional "Size" field.
19:49 < SDuensin> I can't have variant lists with 100+ items in them.  Users are gonna freak out.
20:00 < bernd2> perlDreamer, helpvar_albums and helpvar_albums_rss in Asset_Gallery.pm show the same help text.
20:00 < bernd2> Is that a bug?
20:00 <+perlDreamer> you bet it is!
20:01 < bernd2> Ticket?
20:01 <+perlDreamer> please
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20:11 < bernd2> perlDreamer, I am going to see Klaus in a few minutes.
20:11 < bernd2> Do you want me to say hello?
20:12 <+perlDreamer> Please do.
20:12 < CIA-46> WebGUI: translation * r9165 /translations/German/German/ (Asset_Gallery.pm Asset_GalleryAlbum.pm): Update from translation server
20:12 < bernd2> Happy hacking until midnight!
20:12 < SDuensin> The Cart isn't pluggable, eh?  Hmm.
20:12 < bernd2> I am gone for today.
20:12 < SDuensin> Later bernd2 
20:12 <+perlDreamer> later, bernd2
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20:12  * SDuensin just doesn't know where to stick this extra data.
20:14 <+perlDreamer> add it to the variant data, maybe?
20:15  * plainhao thanks tavisto for suggesting smcfan control, installed a similar pref pane earlier (fan control).
20:18  * SDuensin will have to learn more before attempting that.
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20:56 < elnino> is the roadmap page on webgui.org still things to come or are some of those already released?
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21:14  * perlDreamer goes to the gym
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21:51 <@rizen> For those of you who aren't aware, we have published the call for participation for WUC 2009. http://www.webgui.org/wuc/2009-call-for-participation
21:52 <@rizen> Please sign up if you want to do a talk.
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22:15 < elnino> how does one do the little asterix in the chat window like perlDreamer going to the gym?
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22:22 < deafferret> /me goes to gym
22:23 < deafferret> elnino: my client is irssi. I don't know what you're using.
22:25 < elnino> xchat
22:27 < deafferret> did you try typing "/me does something" ?
22:43  * elnino I'm back
22:43 < elnino> thanks deafferret!
22:44 < deafferret> "/me is back" would have made more sense  :)
22:44 < elnino> I suppose.. 
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23:02 < elnino> in the database schema, in the asset table, what is the difference between lockedby and statechangedby? can the state change without being locked?
23:07 <@Haarg> deleting or cutting to the clipboard change the state but don't lock the asset
23:07 < elnino> ah,  ok.  thanks!
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--- Day changed Wed Jan 07 2009
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00:26  * SDuensin has been AFK all frickin' day.
00:26 < SynQ> I'm looking for any australian person
00:26 < SynQ> who has a phone number :)
00:26 < SDuensin> Not I.  Sorry.
00:26 < SynQ> I kno
00:26 < SynQ> know
00:27 < SDuensin> Can I just willy-nilly add new fields to a product variant?  Can the rest of the shopping system cope with that?
00:30 < SynQ> I have no idea
00:31 < SynQ> would you like to buy a box of 100 Goey dolls from me?
00:31 < SynQ> :P
00:32 <+perlDreamer> SynQ: Isn't it 4:00am in Australia?
00:35 <+perlDreamer> patspam will usually log in around 4:00pm or 5:00pm PST
00:35 <+perlDreamer> which is 2.5 hours from now
00:40 < SDuensin> So perlDreamer - screwing with the variant fields won't break the cart?  Or am I starting a cascade of changes?
00:40 <+perlDreamer> not sure
00:40 <+perlDreamer> just the first thing I thought of
00:40 < SDuensin> hehe
00:40 < SynQ> ah
00:41 < SynQ> at which time I will be vast asleep
00:41 < SDuensin> It opens a few cans of worms with the display, too, but for what I need, I can fake it.
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01:30 < elnino_laptop> hi. We have a matrix on our site, and the security settings were set so only internal people can post new products, well, one come thru as spam.
01:30 < elnino_laptop> so, couple questinos,
01:31 < elnino_laptop> obviously new listings in a matrix are not version tagged, otherwise, it would have just been version tagsed, and second, was this security hole reported for 7.5.24?
01:41 <+perlDreamer> elnino_laptop, I have not seen any Matrix bugs in months, maybe years
01:41 <+perlDreamer> The matrix was rewritten and upgraded for 7.6, however
01:41 < elnino_laptop> ok, well this is defately a bug.. Security is ignored, 4 anonymous submissions were made on a matrix that only our marketing people should be able to.
01:42 < elnino_laptop> i'm writting up a bug report now.
01:50 < elnino_laptop> so.. is there a way to set up the approval system to be enforced when the version tag is committed by others than in a particular group? these went right thru because marketing disabled the approval system.
01:51 <+perlDreamer> elnino, that would take a custom workflow
01:51 <+perlDreamer> and, as you noted, matrix listings are not versioned
01:52  * perlDreamer sends elnino_laptop a big stick to hit the marketing people with
01:52 < elnino_laptop> but that's funny, because as far as I can tell, the submission had committed version tags.
01:52 < elnino_laptop> * be glad to
01:52  * elnino_laptop be glad to
01:56 <+perlDreamer> there's a moderation system to it, it looks like
01:56 <+perlDreamer> but there's no version control
01:56 <+perlDreamer> listings can be approved or disproved by a group
01:56 <+perlDreamer> that's from a very, very quick read through on the code
01:56 <+perlDreamer> editListingSave
01:57 < elnino_laptop> well, yea, that was what was verion taged, the CS system that was created by the new listing. I guess I misspoke. The actual *listing* wasn't version tagged which I find to be interesting.
01:57  * elnino_laptop is curious about that decision.
01:57 < elnino_laptop> oh well
01:58 < elnino_laptop> I recommendd that the matrix be taken down for now.  =)
01:58 < elnino_laptop> s/recommendd/recommended
01:58 < elnino_laptop> and I'll revisit (your's) wuc discussion on workflows, it was too much for my brain at that time of the day if I remember...
01:58 < elnino_laptop> I think it was yours...
01:59 <+perlDreamer> it was probably rizen, or preaction
02:01 <+perlDreamer> but they're not much harder than macros, really
02:01 <+perlDreamer> they can either be very complex, or very simple
02:02 < elnino_laptop> it was preaction.. I get your handles mixed up.
02:02 <+perlDreamer> it's easy to tell us apart, he's the good looking one with the tie
02:03 < elnino_laptop> =)  maybe I should teach a class on workflows so I stop ignoring them.. 
02:04 < elnino_laptop> however, we're expecting to have a new baby in July, so, not quite sure if that would be too smart on my part.l
02:04 <+perlDreamer> congratulations!
02:05 <+perlDreamer> I hope that this new baby is being easy on you?
02:05 < elnino_laptop> Thanks! I've never annouced anything so publicly before...  =)
02:05 <+Radix-wrk> congrats elnino :)
02:05 < elnino_laptop> hopefully, but the first was the easy one, and everyone says the second is going to be just the opposite.
02:05 < elnino_laptop> So we're in BIG trouble.
02:05 <+Radix-wrk> heh
02:05 < elnino_laptop> Thanks Radix-wrk
02:06 <+perlDreamer> well, with our boys Kathy was sicker than a dog for 8 months
02:06 <+perlDreamer> so the trend can be broken!
02:06 <+Radix-wrk> my sister is going to have her second around the same time actually
02:06 <+perlDreamer> we need to throw a virtual baby shower or something
02:06 < elnino_laptop> actually, health wise, pregancies are easy on me.. 
02:07 <+perlDreamer> what kind of internet stuff does a baby need these days?
02:07 <+perlDreamer> mp3 player
02:07 <+perlDreamer> Webkin?
02:07 < elnino_laptop> I dont' know how that would work, but that could be fun.
02:07 <+perlDreamer> cordless mouse
02:07 <+perlDreamer> baby gear from Thinkgeek
02:08 < CIA-46> WebGUI: jt * r9166 /experimental/Automat/lib/ (7 files in 2 dirs): 
02:08 < CIA-46> WebGUI: many bug fixes
02:08 < CIA-46> WebGUI: lots of improvements to dns management
02:08 < elnino_laptop> that's my boss's favorite place to shop.
02:08 <+Radix-wrk> get them a chumby
02:10  * elnino_laptop now has to look at what a chumby is.
02:10 <+perlDreamer> Haarg: any releases today?
02:10 <@Haarg> yeah
02:10 <+perlDreamer> which branch?
02:10 <@Haarg> doing it right now
02:10 <@Haarg> 7.5
02:10 <+perlDreamer> okay, I'll hold off on this commit then
02:10 <@rizen> perlDreamer could you check your email and make sure you got something about automat?
02:10 < elnino_laptop> eek.. I can't get rid of the listing on the matrix....I rolled back the CS versoin tags, that probably screwed it up.  grr.
02:11 <+perlDreamer> rizen: got two
02:11 <@rizen> excellent, you should have gotten 2
02:11 <@rizen> thanks
02:11 <+perlDreamer> although, I'm not allowed to work on WebGUI anymore
02:11 <+perlDreamer> I was fired by Vrby
02:11 <@rizen> oh yeah?
02:11 <@rizen> why is that?
02:11 <+perlDreamer> for being 5 months late turning in conference slides
02:12 <+perlDreamer> make that 7 months
02:12 <@rizen> hehe
02:12 <@rizen> you'll just have to turn your next set in 7 months early
02:12 <@rizen> and then all will be right with the world
02:12 <+perlDreamer> There's a next WUC in my future?
02:12 <@rizen> isn't there?
02:12 <+Radix-wrk> elnino: chumby.com funnily enough - but essentially it's a mini linux computer with touch screen, soft padded sides and an accelerometer - it's very hackable and you could do some cool stuff for kids on it.
02:13  * perlDreamer is out of ideas, and I can't enough new bad code to talk about for Game Show, the Sequel
02:13 <@rizen> would you like for me to come up with a few ideas that might inspire you?
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04:01 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9167 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/t/ (Asset/File/GalleryFile/Photo/comment.t Session/DateTime.t): fixing tests for new strings
04:01 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9168 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.5.38 release
04:20 -!- Radix-wrk changed the topic of #webgui to:  [ WebGUI 7.5.38-stable | 7.6.7-beta | WRE 0.8.5 ] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org | Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com/
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04:23 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9169 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.5.37-7.5.38.pl: fix upgrade script
04:23 < CIA-46> WebGUI: jt * r9170 /releases/WebGUI_7.5.38-stable: Release 7.5.38-stable
04:23 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9171 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (4 files in 4 dirs): preparing for 7.5.39 dev
04:27 <+perlDreamer> w00t!
04:27 <+perlDreamer> time to commit
04:38 < jmarsden|work> Did the fix re. licence info for that one last file Ernesto was hopng for get into 7.5.38 ?
04:39 <+perlDreamer> which file was that, jmarsden|work?
04:40 < jmarsden|work> I forget; in July there were 4, days ago he said ther was one more 3rd party file he needed a licence info change for for full Debian approval as being free software
04:42 < jmarsden|work> I'll grab the new tarball later tonight and see if I can find anything about it in the changelog.
04:46 <+perlDreamer> there was a license change in 7.5.31, but that was many weeks ago
04:51 <+perlDreamer> but it's unrelated
04:51 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9172 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix a typo in the i18n for Gallery RSS album RSS template variable loop.
04:51 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9173 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Forward port i18n fix for Gallery Album RSS list.
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08:01 < jmarsden> Why do the upgrade_*.pl scripts in docs/upgrades/ all lack an initial #!/usr/bin/perl line?  Is there any way a patch to fix this would be accepted into the official WebGUI source code?
08:02 < jmarsden> Ernesto patches them all in his Debian package, but it would seem productive to get that change into the "upstream" sources.
08:02 <@preaction> jmarsden: they don't need one as they should not be run by themselves
08:04 < jmarsden> Maybe, but without an indicator like that you can't as easily tell that they are Perl scripts , for instance using file to determine which files in the tree are Perl and counting lines of code, or whatever... they may not "need" such a line, but it would be cleaner if they had one, wouldn't it?
08:05 <@preaction> it would get accepted, but i would think that /usr/bin/env perl would be best
08:05 <@preaction> perhaps asking the dev mailing list would be best
08:06 < jmarsden> OK, thanks.
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09:08 < WebGUI> hmm
09:08 < WebGUI> no patspam
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10:09 < bernd_> Uh, plain black midnight session?
10:09 < bernd_> Good morning everyone!
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18:34 < CIA-46> WebGUI: martin * r9174 /experimental/ (28 files in 5 dirs): The new graphing system initial import.
18:34 < CIA-46> WebGUI: martin * r9175 /experimental/ (9 files in 2 dirs): Move the ChartMagick stuff to the right directory as was the plan all along...
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18:50 < juan> in the Collaboration System, mail tab, can i configure a gmail account?
18:51 <+MrHairgrease> does gmail feature pop3?
18:53 <+perlDreamer> MrHairgrease, what is ChartMagick?
18:56 <+MrHairgrease> I am recreating the the graphing system in webgui agnostic modules that will be placed on CPAN
18:56 <+MrHairgrease> and webgui will be using it
18:57 <+MrHairgrease> and whe i say recreating i also mean making it better
18:57 <+MrHairgrease> so i chceked out some of the available charting systems on cpan
18:58 <+MrHairgrease> and i tried to make mine better than them
18:58 <+MrHairgrease> =)
18:59 <+MrHairgrease> It's not finished yet
18:59 <+MrHairgrease> but it's going good
18:59 <+perlDreamer> dude, for  you that will be no problem
18:59 <+perlDreamer> Oh, uber-European hacker
18:59 <+MrHairgrease> so if you like, please chcek it out
18:59 <+perlDreamer> do you have tests?
18:59 <+MrHairgrease> in the scripts directory there are a number of test scripts
18:59 <+MrHairgrease> no tests yet
19:00 < juan> MrHairgrease, gmail uses pop
19:00 <+MrHairgrease> the files in the scripts directory render charts for you 
19:00 <+MrHairgrease> most of em to out.png
19:01 < juan> but it uses a different port
19:01 <+MrHairgrease> anyway if you have the time, please let me know how you like th api
19:01 <+perlDreamer> okay
19:01 <+MrHairgrease> ther's no pod yet, but you should be able to figure it out pretty easily from the test scripts
19:02 <+MrHairgrease> juan: i dunno if i can work if gmail uses a non-standard port
19:02 <+MrHairgrease> i can try to find out though
19:02 <+MrHairgrease> hang on
19:04 <+MrHairgrease> juan: from the code it seems that you could try to stick the port number onto the url
19:05 <+MrHairgrease> so if gmail has pop on pop3.gmail.com on port 8799
19:05 <+MrHairgrease> try to use pop3.gmail.com:8799
19:05 <+MrHairgrease> otherwise I don't think it'll work
19:10 < juan> ok, i am going to try
19:10 < juan> thanks
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19:52  * danny_mk went to feed the canaries
19:52 <+perlDreamer> just how many canaries do you own?
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20:19  * danny_mk back from feeding and watering the canaries
20:19 < danny_mk> I have about 90+
20:31 <+perlDreamer> does that cause a problem with disposal, or do you have a nitrate business on the side?
20:34 < danny_mk> LOL, no, just throw the stuff in the trash.  It is not as much as you would think.  during the worst year if would probably be the same as a couple of weeks of human disposal :-)
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22:34 <@perlmonkey2> quiet today?
22:35  * bernd_ is drinking a cup of chai latte and enjoying the silence.
22:37  * danny_mk is relaxing after having too much to eat.
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22:58 < CIA-46> WebGUI: translation * r9176 /translations/German/German/ (Asset_Wobject.pm Asset_Gallery.pm): Update from translation server
22:58 < CIA-46> WebGUI: translation * r9177 /translations/German/German/ (Asset_Gallery.pm Asset_GalleryAlbum.pm): Update from translation server
23:22 < bernd_> perlDreamer?
23:23 <+perlDreamer> yes, bernd_?
23:24 <+perlDreamer> I just got back from running.  You have excellent timing.
23:24 < bernd_> One moment, please. I am brushing my teeth :-)
23:24 <+perlDreamer> np
23:25 < bernd_> Ok, back again!
23:26 < bernd_> I have a quiz for you:
23:26 < CIA-46> WebGUI: translation * r9178 /translations/German/German/ (Asset_Gallery.pm Asset_GalleryAlbum.pm): Update from translation server
23:26 < CIA-46> WebGUI: translation * r9179 /translations/German/German/Asset_Gallery.pm: Update from translation server
23:26 < bernd_> If you have an image in print quality (300 dpi) and screen quality (72 dpi),
23:26 < bernd_> what's the approximate size ratio then?
23:27 < bernd_> perlDreamer?
23:27 <+perlDreamer> not sure, bernd_
23:27 < bernd_> It says 3-fold in the docs.
23:28 < bernd_> But imo it should be 10-fold.
23:28 < bernd_> Or am I wrong here?
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23:28 <+perlDreamer> 300/72 =~ 4
23:28 < bernd_> 16-fold in that case.
23:29 < bernd_> I am referring to the "maxSpacePerUser description" key in Asset_Gallery.pm
23:29 < bernd_> Ticket?
23:29 <+perlDreamer> let me read the docs for that
23:29 <+perlDreamer> I thought that referred to disk space
23:29 <+perlDreamer> which is loosely correlated to dpi
23:29 < bernd_> Ah no, wrong key actually.
23:30 < bernd_> I have to check again.
23:30 < bernd_> It is "imageDensity description", in fact.
23:31 < bernd_> Should be changed to 16-fold, do you agree?
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23:32 <+perlDreamer> I think that is an approximate number
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23:32 <+perlDreamer> and 16 fold would refer to the size, not the resolution?
23:32 < bernd_> But it says "The density of the image. Print-quality images are more than three times the size of web-quality images."
23:33 < bernd_> Maybe it should be "... three times the resolution ..."
23:33 <+perlDreamer> unless, due to compression, the relation is not linear
23:33 < bernd_> If we changed it to resolution it would be always true.
23:34 <+perlDreamer> yes
23:34 < bernd_> Ticket?
23:34 <+perlDreamer> Please!
23:35 < bernd_> Almost done. Thanks for your time!
23:35 < bernd_> Have a good night!
23:36 <+perlDreamer> Good night, bernd_!
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23:45 <+perlDreamer> danny_mk: any thoughts about this: http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/CSuWYwoOSn8/article.pl
23:47 < danny_mk> yeah!  Usage is low because people don't understand what it does and your average user will not bother with learning new technology (even simple solutions)
23:48 < danny_mk> The fact that facebook, yahoo, aol, myspace, etc... are using it should increase acceptance and usuage
23:49 <+perlDreamer> so really, this is just anti-OpenID, inflammatory flamebait
23:49 < danny_mk> I would think so :-)
23:50 < danny_mk> think about it, do you really want to keep track of all your login and passwords to every system/network/etc... you have created?
23:51 < danny_mk> I have actually adapted it at work and acceptance was great
23:51 < danny_mk> Have you tried it yet?
23:52 <+perlDreamer> nope
23:52 <+perlDreamer> haven't ever needed it
23:53 < danny_mk> Give me a few min of your time and I will show you what it does
23:54 <+perlDreamer> I think I understand the basic concepts
23:54 < danny_mk> Do you have a few min?
23:54 <+perlDreamer> yes, unless I get an IM ping back :)
23:54 < danny_mk> Do you have a yahoo, aol, myspace, facebook, google account?
23:55 <+perlDreamer> I have a google account
23:56 < danny_mk> alright, point your browser to openid.dbash.com
23:56 < danny_mk> Click on:  If you would like to try it out sign in here! Sign In
23:56 < danny_mk> and use your google account to signup
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--- Day changed Thu Jan 08 2009
00:00 <+perlDreamer> seems slow
00:00 <+perlDreamer> still loading after the google authorization request
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00:02 < danny_mk> sure, my network connection is slow as hell
00:03 <+perlDreamer> okay, got the auth email, hit the link and logged in
00:03 < danny_mk> I am looking at upgrading my cable modem service to a business 
00:03 <+perlDreamer> but there's no way to tell if I'm logged in or not
00:03 <+perlDreamer> how would I tell the difference?
00:04 < danny_mk> you don't see a difference, the account link in the middle of the page?
00:04 <+perlDreamer> nope
00:04 <+perlDreamer> what is my OpenId identifier?
00:04 <+perlDreamer> just the email address?
00:04 < danny_mk> give me a sec
00:07 < danny_mk> You don't see a message like this one:  Welcome Daniel M you have succesfully logged into this site using your OpenId account.
00:08 <+perlDreamer> Nope
00:09 <+perlDreamer> what's the openId identifier?
00:09 < danny_mk> OK, I can see that you did create an account.  and that your account is active
00:10 < danny_mk> The openid identifier is a unique identifier that identifies you on the web. 
00:10 <+perlDreamer> how do I know what mine is?
00:11 < danny_mk> It seems that you created and activated your account but did not login
00:11 < danny_mk> click on the link again and login and you will see your identifier under your account settings
00:11 < danny_mk> I don't want to post it here
00:11 < danny_mk> not that it matters anyway
00:11 <+perlDreamer> the problem with that is that I don't now how to login
00:12 < danny_mk> click the link that you used to create the account!
00:13 <+perlDreamer> ah now I'm logged in
00:13 < danny_mk> yes, steps are to create->activate/verify->login
00:13 <+perlDreamer> how do I log out?
00:13 <+perlDreamer> or access my profile?
00:15 < danny_mk> look in the middle of the page, you have the:    Hello Daniel M. Click here to log out.  My Account links
00:15 < danny_mk> well. it will show you your settings :-)
00:16 <+perlDreamer> I can safely change the username from the megastring to something else?
00:16 < danny_mk> Yes
00:16 < danny_mk> It all works the same as Auth::WebGUI
00:16 <+perlDreamer> from a usability standpoint, I'd ask the user for a username during the create process
00:17 < danny_mk> I did, you missed it!  :-P
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00:18 <+perlDreamer> I'm a very bad user
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00:18 < danny_mk> LOL
00:19 < danny_mk> Maybe I should have some bells, whistles and lighting...
00:19 < danny_mk> Usernames can get pretty long because of the OpenId identity
00:19 < danny_mk> did you notice yours?
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00:26 <+perlDreamer> yes, it's much longer than I would remember.
00:27 < danny_mk> You don't have to remember it.   I set my yahoo one to be https://me.yahoo.com/danny_mk
00:28 < danny_mk> you can probably set your google one to something like https://me.google.com/perlDreamer
00:28 < danny_mk> You have to login to your google account and change it just like I did my yahoo one
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00:28 <+perlDreamer> Maybe I'll tinker with it later
00:29 < danny_mk> OK
00:36 < Lisette> if i have  a payDriver, how to do to get something of the definition by code?
00:40 < daviddelikat> so I've been working on this stray character in Syndicated Content...  I can't quite figure out where the character is coming from, but I can get rid of it.  is that an acceptable solution?
00:40 <+perlDreamer> nope
00:40 <+perlDreamer> if the user can enter it, we have to deal with it
00:41 < daviddelikat> that is the problem, I can't enter it... even if I try to paste it in it doesn't go wrong.
00:42 < daviddelikat> the only one who can make it happen is kristi
00:42 <+perlDreamer> kristi is all powerful
00:43 < daviddelikat> the other thing is that it only shows up in certain places.
00:43 < daviddelikat> the character is there the whole time, but gets ignored by the browser I think
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00:53 < Lisette> how to do to instace a object and get a value of your definition.
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01:23 < CIA-46> WebGUI: jt * r9180 /experimental/Automat/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Automat.pm: more recent changes
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01:51 < CIA-46> WebGUI: jt * r9181 /WebGUI/ (28 files in 3 dirs): added #!/usr/bin/env perl to all utility scripts
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02:20 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9182 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Account/Contributions.pm: Add the WikiPage to the list of contributions shown in the Account Contributions tab.
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02:47 <+perlDreamer> patspam, did Koen get a hold of you yesterday?
02:47 <+perlDreamer> he was looking for you
02:52 <+Radix-wrk> koen was looking for me too
02:52 <+Radix-wrk> must be an aussie thing
02:53 <+perlDreamer> he _did_ say he was looking for an aussie with a phone number
02:53 <@rizen> i've got a crazy question
02:53 <@rizen> let's say i want to control physical door access from webgui
02:54 <+perlDreamer> okay
02:54 <@rizen> let me back up a sec
02:54 <@rizen> let's say i have an office space somewhere 
02:54 <+Radix-wrk> access to data centre only via website?
02:54 <@rizen> and i want to put a keyless entry system on that office
02:54 <@rizen> and i wanted people to be able to go to a webgui site and "checkout" the office
02:54 <@rizen> at which point webgui would give them a code
02:55 <@rizen> and then they could go to the door
02:55 <@rizen> type in the code
02:55 <@rizen> and get access
02:55 <@rizen> there would likely also be a workflow triggered that would remove the code from the door after a certain period of time
02:55 <@rizen> the webgui programming part i can do no problem
02:55 < ascii> well, i blame kal and jordon.
02:55 <@rizen> the internet connected door hardware is the problem
02:56 <@rizen> where would i find such a beast
02:56 <@rizen> it has to exist
02:56 < ascii> erp
02:56 <+perlDreamer> rizen, possibly not
02:56 <+perlDreamer> connecting things to the internet is not known to increase their security
02:57 <+perlDreamer> instead, look for electronically controlled doors, and we can figure out the glue
02:57 <@rizen> ok well if i can even connect it to ethernet
02:57 <@rizen> i can then write a server that runs on site
02:57 <@rizen> which webgui can connect to over ssh
02:57 <+perlDreamer> offhand, I'd drive it off a small USB module that talks to a 9000 series PIC brick and some HV interface
02:57 <@rizen> well i found this: http://www.keyless.com/K1SeriesStandAlone.htm
02:57 <@rizen> but it says you have to connect at 9600 baud over a terminal
02:58 <@rizen> so i'm guessing it might work
02:58 <@rizen> via an rs232 cable
02:58 <@rizen> or something
02:59 < jmarsden|work> Sure, just put a mini-itx box with a serial port near it and hook that to the door hardware via serial and to the LAN via Cat5.
02:59 <+perlDreamer> if it works over rs232, you should be in business
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02:59 <@rizen> this manual shows how to connect: http://www.keyless.com/PDF/K1ERM1105.pdf
02:59 <+Radix-wrk> http://www.salto.us/
03:01 <@rizen> that looks promising Radix-wrk 
03:02 <@rizen> crap, it requires a card to enter though
03:02 <@rizen> since this can be virtually anybody, it needs to be a keypad
03:02 <+perlDreamer> there's a CPAN module for doing serial port programming, but you can also do it via perl builtins and POSIX
03:03 < jmarsden|work> Device::SerialPort -- see http://search.cpan.org/~cook/Device-SerialPort-1.04/SerialPort.pm
03:04 <@rizen> that is just too cool
03:04 <+Radix-wrk> wonder if X10 do anything like that
03:04 < jmarsden|work> Ugh.  X10 is for home use stuff, I wouldn't use it in an office or factory environment.
03:05 <+Radix-wrk> true
03:06  * jmarsden|work wrote Perl code to talk over serial lines to Vacuum pumps and monitors at a football-field size proton accelerator (medical facility) a few years ago... and it still works :)
03:07 <@rizen> nice jmarsden|work 
03:08 < jmarsden|work> It was fun... the serial stuff went to Portmaster boxes that had ethernet... and then nagios could monitor all this stuff and page the duty techs if the vacuum got too poor, or if a pump overheated, etc.
03:12 <+perlDreamer> is the webgui empire down right now?
03:13 <@rizen> it stops responding for about 10 minutes at around 7pm every day
03:13 <@rizen> working on a fix for that
03:17 <+perlDreamer> actually, WebGUI is smart enough to know that 7:00pm CST is 5:00pm PST, when everyone in the US stops working.  So it steps outside for a quick break.
03:17 <@rizen> that's why it is that time
03:17 <@rizen> =)
03:23 <@rizen> methinks i need to call a locksmith or security company and see what they have for products
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03:45 < jmarsden|work> rizen: Read around on the web first... places like http://www.sdcsecurity.com/ may help?
03:50 <+perlDreamer> rizen: have you been to the mailbox lately?
03:50 <@rizen> not this week
03:50 <@rizen> will be going tomorrow or friday at the latest
03:50 <+perlDreamer> it's probably worth your time to stop by there
03:51 <@rizen> if i received a package i would have gotten an email about it
03:51 <+perlDreamer> hint hint wink wink nudge nudge you know you know
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05:20 < CIA-46> WebGUI: patspam * r9183 /branch/survey-rfe/www/extras/wobject/Survey/editsurvey/ (answer.js question.html section.js question.js): Deleted unused js files
05:20 < CIA-46> WebGUI: patspam * r9184 /branch/survey-rfe/www/extras/wobject/Survey/editsurvey/object.js: 
05:20 < CIA-46> WebGUI: Removed SimpleEditor title, improved handling of editor window when it
05:20 < CIA-46> WebGUI: is bigger than viewable screen
05:57 < daviddelikat> so what version of WebGUI is running on www.webgui.org?
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06:57 < elnino> usually the latest and greatest.
06:57 < elnino> but don't take my word.
07:06 < jmarsden> elnino: Sadly, running HEAD http://www.webgui.org doesn't tell us, they have Apache running with less than ServerTokens Full, it seems.
07:07 < elnino> ah!!  but you gave me an idea... looking at the source, <meta name="generator" content="WebGUI 7.6.7" />
07:07 < elnino> so my answer is 7.6.7
07:07 < elnino> =)
07:08 < elnino> but it was daviddelidat that asked, but apparently he signed off. 
07:09 < jmarsden> Yes.  Well, we learned something, even if he didn't ;)
07:09 < elnino> yep! =)
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07:32 < elnino> would there be anyreason to ave a template have a template child?
07:32 < elnino> s/ave/have
08:50 < CIA-46> WebGUI: patspam * r9185 /branch/survey-rfe/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
08:50 < CIA-46> WebGUI: Combined the folllowing RFE packages into a single Survey folder
08:50 < CIA-46> WebGUI: package:
08:50 < CIA-46> WebGUI: rfe-9202
08:50 < CIA-46> WebGUI: * Default Answer Edit
08:50 < CIA-46> WebGUI: * Default Survey Edit
08:50 < CIA-46> WebGUI: * Default Answer Edit
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18:36 <+BartJol> mmm releases of WebGUI are shown quite randomly on this dutch site
18:36 <+BartJol> http://tweakers.net/meuktracker/19275/webgui-7538.html
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18:41 <+perlDreamer> 35 people, isn't that some kind of a record?
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18:42 < SynQ> I'd rather do a quality record
18:42 <+perlDreamer> well, I'll have to leave then
18:42 < SynQ> hehe
18:42 < SynQ> no you don't
18:42 < SynQ> social quality
18:42 < SynQ> so all people just sitting here saying nothing should go ;)
18:43 <@bopbop> perldreamer: I figured out that the 100th day of school isn't until February, so that explains the postcard vacuum
18:44 <+perlDreamer> phew :)
18:44 <@bopbop> I know
18:45 <+BartJol> postcard vacuum?
18:45 <@bopbop> didn't want you to lose any more sleep:)
18:45 <@bopbop> bartjol: pd and others sent some postcards to my son for a school project, but it was a long time ago
18:45 <@bopbop> pd had asked about it a few times
18:45 <+BartJol> SynQ: was that meant for me?
18:46 <+BartJol> ha
18:46 < SynQ> bart: who fit's the shoe puts it on
18:46 <+BartJol> but as a shoemaker I rather stay with my least
18:47 < SynQ> kristy: our card is still coming :)
18:47 <@bopbop> thank you SynQ!
18:47 < SynQ> pardon the y
18:47 < SynQ> :)
18:47 <@bopbop> np
18:48 <+BartJol> I'm no failurehair SynQ
18:48 <+perlDreamer> failure hair?
18:49 <+perlDreamer> is that a Dutch phrase?
18:49 <+BartJol> yeah faalhaas
18:49 <+perlDreamer> I like it!
18:49 <+BartJol> well it actually shoulde be hare
18:50 <+BartJol> like a bunny like animal, but then different
18:50 <+perlDreamer> failure hair is much funnier in English
18:50 <@bopbop> I pictured a balding Bart
18:50 <+perlDreamer> I see some guy with a really bad toupe'
18:50 <+perlDreamer> or the combover with 3 strands of hair
18:50 <+BartJol> or tavisto's metro style
18:50 <+perlDreamer> or with a can of that spray paint stuff
18:51 <+perlDreamer> tavisto has an aura about him
18:51 < SynQ> actually
18:51 < SynQ> it's failurehare then
18:51 < SynQ> the hare that fails
18:51 <+BartJol> indeed
18:51 < SynQ> oh
18:51 <@bopbop> as in, the turtle and hare?... is that the reference
18:52 < SynQ> I have to go for dinner
18:52 < SynQ> be back later
18:52 < SynQ> ~
18:53 <+BartJol> mmm maybe we should organise a Dutchism presentation at the WUC
18:55 <+BartJol> any fans?
18:56 <+perlDreamer> I'd come
18:56 <+BartJol> more an after session thing
18:56 <+BartJol> shouldn't be a problem just record everything Martin says in englisg
18:57 <+BartJol> he's a natural
18:57 <+perlDreamer> so, if there's failure hair, what does that make MrHairgrease?
18:57 <+perlDreamer> Uberhaar?
18:58 <+BartJol> haargraas
18:58 <+BartJol> like cows eat grass, but then hair istead of grass
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22:27 < elnino> Hi. Trying to figure out the photo gallary...  It seems that the way it is setup, you have gallery with multiple albums.  well, we're only going to have one album, and have it display in the thumbnail view on the page..Similar to amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Little-People-Christmas-Story-Nativity/dp/B000067R86/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=toys-and-games&qid=1231257300&sr=8-1 Is there a cool way to do this?
22:32 < elnino> hmm. It looks like in the asset manager, I can cut the album out from underneath the gallary and paste it independantly on to a page (severed from the gallary), but when viewing the page, it displays NOTHING.so something is spitting out bad html... =(
22:33 <@preaction> elnino: you shouldnt be doing that
22:33 < elnino> =(
22:33 < elnino> I put it back.. 
22:34 < elnino> how do I just get the album?
22:34 <@preaction> elnino: check the Display tab of the Gallery edit screen, you can display just one album right away
22:34 < elnino> right, but the customer has to click on the album (and leave our product page) to get to what I would like to mimick on amazon.
22:35 < elnino> maybe I should do it the old fashion way with the CS asset....
22:35 <@preaction> elnino: did you check the display tab yet? the part that says Display Mode. choose the option that says Single Album
22:36 < elnino> Yes ((I had already set the gallary to show one album.)  - maybe it's a bug in 7.5.24
22:37 <@preaction> did you select which album it should display?
22:40 < elnino> well, I tried, but the [select] never became a link for me to click on to select it. - but let me try "typing it"  =)
22:41 <@preaction> pretty sure you can't type it
22:42 < elnino> oh.. I see...  hold on.
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22:46 < elnino> ok... now is there a way for the album to default to thumbview (like amazon?)
22:47 < elnino> when I edit the album, I just get title, description, and choose the thumbnail to represent the album. I don't see a "properties tab type" page.
22:47 < elnino> and nothing obvious under the gallery's settings.
22:47 <@preaction> no, there isn't a way to do that yet
22:48 < elnino> ok. At least I didn't miss it somewhere...
22:50 < elnino> ok,... so when in thumbnail mode, I get the "enlarged" version both from hovering and clicking - which template would be used to modify that behavior?
22:51 <@preaction> the thumbnails template
22:51 <@preaction> Default Album View Thumbnails i think
22:51 < elnino> ok.
22:52 < elnino> and by the way, when in "single album" mode the admin's controls only link to the album, the only way to get to the gallery settings it to go back intot he asset manager.  Has that been reported/fixed? This 7.5.24 seems to be one of the eariler versions of this asset....
22:52 <@preaction> i'm not sure that's a bug really
22:54 < elnino> I'm viewing the page that the gallary is on, so the edit button should edit the gallery, there is already a separate link to edit the album.
22:56 < elnino> I supose it's consistant with the rest of the buttons and the icon used, but if the page contains the gallery which contains the album, I would think that the admincontrols would be for the gallery
22:56 < elnino> when viwing the apge.
22:57 < elnino> oh geez. when viewing the page. 
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23:09 <+perlDreamer> Lisett1, about your question yesterday.  The definition subroutine is a class method, and it returns a data structure.
23:09 <+perlDreamer> You can find examples of how to use it inside Asset.pm
23:09 <+perlDreamer> just look for ->definition
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--- Day changed Fri Jan 09 2009
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00:04 <+perlDreamer> MrHaargraas, long time no see
00:05 <+MrHairgrease> hey Pd, you must be talking to my Swedish cousin
00:06 <+perlDreamer> actually, I was talking with BartJol
00:06 <+perlDreamer> he was teaching us some Dutch
00:06 <+MrHairgrease> ah i see
00:06 <+perlDreamer> today's lesson was faalhaar
00:07 <+MrHairgrease> faalhaar or faalhaas
00:07 <+MrHairgrease> ?
00:07 <+perlDreamer> at first, he said it was failure hair
00:07 <+perlDreamer> then failure hare
00:07 <+perlDreamer> faalhaar
00:07 <+perlDreamer> no, faalhaas
00:07 <+MrHairgrease> the former would certainly translate as faalhaar
00:08 <+MrHairgrease> the latter indeed is the much more common word faalhaas
00:09 <+MrHairgrease> and with common i mean, used by academia
00:09 <+perlDreamer> BartJol is academia.  Cool
00:10 <+MrHairgrease> and with academia i mean boozed out frat boys =)
00:10 <+MrHairgrease> talking of which...
00:11 <+perlDreamer> where does the phrase come from?
00:11 <+MrHairgrease> what phrase?
00:11 <+perlDreamer> faalhaas
00:11 <+MrHairgrease> oh 
00:11 <+MrHairgrease> i dunno
00:12 <+MrHairgrease> maybe it's on wikipedia
00:12 <+MrHairgrease> heh
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00:12 <+perlDreamer> perhaps, but I would have problems reading the dutch article on it
00:12 <+MrHairgrease> wikipedia lists it under military slang
00:13 <+MrHairgrease> the word refers to a person who is sucking bad
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00:13 <+MrHairgrease> in the sense of failing so to say
00:13 <+MrHairgrease> so you can call someone a faler (=failer)
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00:14 <+perlDreamer> in english, it sounds like "fall haws" or "fale hase"?
00:14 <+MrHairgrease> but faalhaas has a better ring to it
00:14 <+MrHairgrease> neither
00:14 <+MrHairgrease> both aa's are long sounds
00:15 <+MrHairgrease> fallhaws would be the most correct of the two, but it's still wrong =)
00:16 <+MrHairgrease> you've been in germany right?
00:16 <+MrHairgrease> know the river Aare?
00:16 <+perlDreamer> no
00:16 <+MrHairgrease> the aa's a pronounced the same
00:16 <+perlDreamer> I'll have Kathy coach me on it
00:16 <+MrHairgrease> ok
00:16 <+perlDreamer> done anything in the submicron scale lately?
00:17 <+MrHairgrease> i work two days a week for mapper lithogrphy
00:17 <+MrHairgrease> doing cleanroom stuff
00:17 <+MrHairgrease> www.mapperlithography.com
00:18 <+perlDreamer> very cool
00:19 <+perlDreamer> maskless semiconductors
00:19 <+MrHairgrease> maskless lithography
00:19 < SynQ> ah
00:19 <+perlDreamer> I worked with people who made masks by hand.
00:19 < SynQ> if it refairs to the military
00:19 <+perlDreamer> but they were kind of older
00:19 < SynQ> it has to do with sand hare
00:19 < SynQ> which is a term for 'soldier'
00:19 <+perlDreamer> late 40's/early 50's of age
00:20 <+MrHairgrease> what happened? They run out of hands to make masks from?
00:20 < SynQ> a 'sandhare' is a soldier who digs itself into a shootingpit (schuttersputje)
00:20 <+perlDreamer> no, they came out with this computer thingy that would do it for you
00:20 <+perlDreamer> A Calma Station
00:20 < SynQ> and therefore resebles a hare
00:20 < SynQ> and a failhare is a sandhare that has failed to do it right
00:20 < SynQ> and thus gets shot
00:21 < SynQ> I presume
00:21 <+perlDreamer> SynQ, then also called a dead hare?
00:21 <+MrHairgrease> good thing, i guess no the maskfabs are a lot less bloody =)
00:21 <+MrHairgrease> wow
00:22 < SynQ> perlDreamer: probably yes
00:22 <+MrHairgrease> if procolix fails you can alwys become an etymologist koen!
00:23 < SynQ> procolix will never fail
00:23 <+MrHairgrease> i certainly hope so
00:23 < SynQ> since that is as unlikely as JT admitting being wrong on using perl instead of php
00:23 <@tavisto> OQAPI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
00:24 < SynQ> hehe
00:24 <+MrHairgrease> if it isn't my favorite tavis!
00:24 < SynQ> tavis: do you have a cheerleader permit?
00:24 < SynQ> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USHb-KsC_ik
00:24 <+MrHairgrease> I now he has a tutu
00:25 <+MrHairgrease> tavisto: nice pbwg interview btw
00:25 <+MrHairgrease> and a good thing the allegations aren't false =)
00:26 <@tavisto> hey SynQ, if you get me a hoodie then I'll wear it around screaming Procolix too
00:26 <+MrHairgrease> procolix has to many syllables to be shoutable
00:26 < SynQ> tavis: what if I get you a bandana?
00:27 <@rizen> i was wrong to use Perl
00:27 <@rizen> PHP rules
00:27 <@rizen> especially PHP4
00:27 <+MrHairgrease> it sure does
00:27 <@rizen> it's my favorite
00:27  * MrHairgrease cues webphooey
00:27  * rizen runs to boil himself in oil to get the bad PHP germs off him
00:28 <@tavisto> SynQ I dunno about bandanas... people who wear em are either in a gang or are pirates.. I'm neither
00:29 < SynQ> top heads then
00:29 < SynQ> olive oil?
00:29 <+MrHairgrease> those are usually undertaers
00:29 <+MrHairgrease> undertakers*
00:29 <+MrHairgrease> olive oil might be just right =)
00:30 <@rizen> i have a picture of tavisto wearing a bandana
00:30 < SynQ> ah
00:30 < SynQ> so he is in a gang?
00:30 <+MrHairgrease> a prirate gang
00:30 < SynQ> TGBW
00:30 <@rizen> i think it's a metrosexual gang
00:30 < SynQ> The Gang Behing WebGUI
00:30 < SynQ> behind
00:30 <+MrHairgrease> rizen: it must be
00:31 <+MrHairgrease> otherwise the allegations would be false, which they aren't
00:31 <@rizen> i still want to see BartJol's cartoon about Metrosexual Man
00:31 <+MrHairgrease> you never seen it?
00:31 <@rizen> starring tavisto
00:31 <@rizen> nope
00:31 < SynQ> rizen: it's probably somewhere on www.bartjol.nl
00:31 <@rizen> Sarah told me about it
00:31 <+MrHairgrease> maybe i have it somewhere in my mail
00:32 <+MrHairgrease> hang on
00:32 < SynQ> JT: can you finish WRE 1.0 64bit tomorrow?
00:32 < SynQ> we need it :P
00:33 <@rizen> sorry no
00:33 < SynQ> damn
00:33 <@rizen> i'm working on specs for 7.7
00:33 <@rizen> then i can work on WRE 1.0 again
00:33 < SynQ> ok
00:33 < SynQ> too bad then
00:33 <@rizen> sorry man
00:33 <@rizen> it will be in your hands sometime in february
00:34 <@rizen> might be january but i doubt it
00:35 < SynQ> It would be a nice present for my babies website ;)
00:35 <+perlDreamer> Has the baby come out, then?
00:35 < SynQ> not yeat
00:35 < SynQ> yet
00:36 <+perlDreamer> You know, Muhammad Ali was born on January 17th
00:36 <+perlDreamer> that would be a good day to be born
00:37 <+perlDreamer> can she hold it for 8 more days?
00:37 < SynQ> I want it to be born the 21st
00:37 < SynQ> 21 - 1 - 2009
00:37 < SynQ> 211 200 9
00:38 <@tavisto> hah, that's right... my character in Rizen's game.. Merc, I'm a badarse in that
00:38 <@tavisto> and I am wearing a bandana
00:38 <@tavisto> and camo.
00:38 <@rizen> we all know that Koen is the real badass in that game
00:39 < SynQ> hehe
00:40 < SynQ> that is a good thought to end the day with
00:40 < SynQ> I'm going to sleep
00:42 <+MrHairgrease> soory, can't find the file
00:42 <+MrHairgrease> i'll ask bart tomorrow
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00:51 <+perlDreamer> rizen, we had 40 people in here today
00:51 <@rizen> the numbers have been up
00:52 <@rizen> i was blown away when i saw 35 yesterday
00:52 <@rizen> cuz the highest i remember was 30
00:52 <@rizen> 40 today
00:52 <@rizen> 1 billion tomorrow
00:52 <@rizen> =)
00:53 <@rizen> then again, i'm easy to surprise, cuz i don't often look at the user count
00:53 <@tavisto> yeah it's really jumped in the last 2 months or so
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01:26 <@preaction> anyone here heard of Selenium?
01:26 <@preaction> http://seleniumhq.org/
01:27 <+perlDreamer> yeah
01:27 <+perlDreamer> I've been wanting to play with that for a while, but am lacking in tuits
01:27 <@preaction> long story short: uses web browser engine to perform automated testing of website from the frontend
01:28 <@preaction> http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=720018 <- here's one
01:29 <@preaction> hm... doesn't seem like much of a tutorial really
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01:37 <+perlDreamer> I think we could use Selenium for automation, as well as testing
01:38 <+perlDreamer> FF already lets you record sequences of tasks to do over and over again
01:38 <+perlDreamer> Selenium is really just a way to do that with flow control
01:38 <+perlDreamer> plus, it works on lots of browsers
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04:52 < patspam> perlmonkey2: ping
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05:34 < CIA-46> WebGUI: patspam * r9186 /branch/survey-rfe/www/extras/wobject/Survey/administersurvey.js: Gracefully handle Survey question with no answers
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06:03 <@perlmonkey2> patspam: pong
06:04 < patspam> heya
06:05 < patspam> just had a request from someone building a large survey for the ability to preview what sections will look like
06:05 < patspam> because when the survey is large it's a pain to click your way through to the point you want to look at
06:05 < patspam> i was thinking of adding a "preview" link in the Edit Survey dialog that simulates what a Section or Question will look like
06:06 < patspam> what do you think?
06:06 < patspam> alternatively, a "take survey from this point" link that created a response to make survey think you were up to that point would work too
06:07 < CIA-46> WebGUI: patspam * r9187 /branch/survey-rfe/www/extras/wobject/Survey/administersurvey.js: 
06:07 < CIA-46> WebGUI: Handle Survey qs without answers even more gracefully (e.g. by not
06:07 < CIA-46> WebGUI: breaking)
06:42 <@perlmonkey2> patspam: hmm, the preview link seems the better solution, yet obviously more difficult.
06:43 <@perlmonkey2> If the preview was just showing a single page, and you gave it which question you wanted to start from in that section, it should be fairly easy and straightforward.
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09:21 < CIA-46> WebGUI: patspam * r9188 /branch/survey-rfe/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Added "Preview" button for survey builders
09:21 < CIA-46> WebGUI: patspam * r9189 /branch/survey-rfe/www/extras/wobject/Survey/ (editsurvey.js editsurvey/object.js): Refactored editsurvey js
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12:52 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9190 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: Syndicated Content corrupts wide characters
12:52 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9191 /WebGUI/t/Asset/File/GalleryFile/Photo/comment.t: fixing photo comment test
12:52 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9192 /WebGUI/www/uploads/ (628 files in 302 dirs): convert to new storage format
12:52 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9193 /WebGUI/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.6.8 release
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13:55 < CIA-46> WebGUI: jt * r9194 /releases/WebGUI_7.6.8-beta: Release 7.6.8-beta
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14:24 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9195 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): preparing for 7.6.9 dev
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15:39 < juan> i have some sites in WG 7.4.40, can i upgrade them directly to 7.5.38?
15:43 <+MrHairgrease> have you read gotch.txt?
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18:11 <+perlDreamer> good morning, folks
18:13 <@Haarg> morning
18:13 <+perlDreamer> you were a busy guy last night, Haarg
18:13 < bernd_> Morning everyone :-)
18:13 <@Haarg> i have a cold and wasn't sleeping well
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18:16 <@Haarg> kind of odd with that syndicated content wide char bug
18:16 <+perlDreamer> I know
18:16 <+perlDreamer> If I'd had spectre running, I suspect that I would never have seen it
18:16 <+perlDreamer> since it would have fetched new content right away
18:17 <@Haarg> i knew there was a problem with wide characters and had assumed the bug was about that without even reading it
18:17 <@Haarg> but it turned out to be a separate issue
18:17 <+perlDreamer> really?
18:17 <+perlDreamer> I should read the patch and learn
18:17 <+perlDreamer> oh
18:17 <+perlDreamer> one thing that isn't in the changelog that really should have been
18:17 <+perlDreamer> I went through all 247 templates for i18n
18:18 <+perlDreamer> I don't have a way of verifying, but I would guess that were over 99% i18n now
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18:18 <+perlDreamer> and, with discussion from bernd_ and preaction, we have a way for making i18n phrases more grammatically correct in other languages
18:18 <+perlDreamer> but it is yet to be implemented
18:20 <@Haarg> at this point i'm assuming the wide character thing in your bug report is an XML::TreePP bug
18:20 <@Haarg> but i'm not certain
18:21 <+perlDreamer> since it didn't exist in 7.5, I think that's a good assumption
18:21 <+perlDreamer> unless it's coming in during the caching
18:21 <@Haarg> i doubt it
18:22 <@Haarg> had another fun issue with the 7.6 synd content asset
18:22 <@Haarg> where with the way it was improperly decoding the wide chars
18:23 <@Haarg> it caused one of the regexes to run forever
18:23 < SDuensin> Greetings.
18:23 <@Haarg> but only on some machines
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18:23 <@Haarg> it doesn't run forever on os x as far as i can tell
18:23 <@Haarg> but does on rhel
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18:26 <@perlmonkey2> Haarg: uhg, I'll never understand how arabic can work with utf8::downgrade.  I mean really?  Either Perl is magically picking the arabic encoding for 8 bit chars, or somehow you can convert multi-byte chars into 8 bit encodings that display just fine.  Encodings are the work of the devil!
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18:27 <@Haarg> the important thing to remember is that it isn't properly encoded to begin with
18:32 <@perlmonkey2> Haarg: heh, that helps but I think I won't get it until it is flowcharted.
18:33 < deafferret> perlmonkey2: Looks pretty simple to me  http://tinyurl.com/axb3h7  :)
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18:58 <+bartjol> the horror, the horror!
18:59 <+bartjol> perlDreamer: mmm, got some work to do indeed!
19:05 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, red hat's, and by extension fedora's, perl is substandard
19:05 <+perlDreamer> If I wasn't such a red hat bigot, I'd jump on the ubuntu band wagon
19:05 <@Haarg> that's not it though
19:05 <+perlDreamer> but I stubbornly hold onto the thought that they'll fix it somehow
19:05 <@Haarg> it works on os x using the system perl, my 5.10 build, and the wre
19:06 <@Haarg> it breaks on rhel using system perl or the wre
19:06 <+perlDreamer> I see
19:06 <+perlDreamer> that's a postable bug to RH's bugzilla then
19:06 <@Haarg> it's very odd
19:11 <+perlDreamer> bartjol, as far as I can see, there are only a few big batches of missing i18n in WebGUI yet.
19:11 <+perlDreamer> and most of it is in the javascript
19:12 <+perlDreamer> excluding, or course, upcoming development
19:12 <+bartjol> yeah, I was actually relieved after all the monster under the bed stories from you
19:12 <+perlDreamer> not as much as you thought?
19:12 < CIA-46> WebGUI: translation * r9196 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (11 files): Update from translation server
19:13 <+bartjol> no, only 1.9 percent
19:13 <+bartjol> which is quite some work but not a tremendous amount
19:13 <+perlDreamer> good, and it all should have good context
19:13 <+perlDreamer> if not, you can jump on my toes at the WUC
19:13 <+bartjol> after my remarks I have seen improvements
19:14 < SDuensin> Hey gang.
19:14 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin!
19:14 <+bartjol> only if I cancarry JT on the same time, and I Can't (or maybe can, but it will ruin my back) do that
19:15 <+bartjol> SDuensin: my big facebook friend ;)
19:15 < SDuensin> hehe
19:15 < SDuensin> It's very boring here.  Backing up drives.
19:16 <+bartjol> oh, I just finished some translations and upgrading my site. now I head off to drink beer and play games (I know, it's getting predictable)
19:17 <+bartjol> so nice weekend everybody
19:17 < SDuensin> Beer & Games?  Sounds great to me!
19:17 <+perlDreamer> I still need to write that wiki article about setting up the translation server locally
19:17 < SDuensin> Enjoy, Facebook buddy!
19:17 <+bartjol> it is, Oh and to come up with a subject for my WUC-presentation
19:18 <+bartjol> thanks!
19:18 <+perlDreamer> On the variability and form of Bart Jol's hair.  The long and the short of it.
19:18 <+bartjol> perlDreamer: if you have time, I wanna do that, so you can use me as a test sunject
19:18 <+perlDreamer> next week perhaps?
19:19 <+bartjol> should be possible somewhere
19:19 <+bartjol> but I also wanna backport i18n changes in beta to stable
19:19 <+perlDreamer> that is going to be a challenge
19:19 <+bartjol> lets talk about that later
19:20 <+perlDreamer> okay
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20:04 < bernd_> SDuensin, you mentioned that you are running V-servers.
20:04 < bernd_> What is your preferred virtualization solution?
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20:24 < SDuensin> Hey bernd_ - I use VMware Server.
20:24 < bernd_> And are you pleased with it?
20:25 < SDuensin> Very
20:25 < bernd_> What about virtualbox?
20:25 < bernd_> Does it provide the same functionality?
20:25 < SDuensin> Not really.  VMware Server has a nice web UI for managing your virtual machines.
20:25 < SDuensin> VMware Server is free, too.
20:26 < bernd_> So basically, the native gui control application available via the web?
20:27 < SDuensin> Server has no GUI.  It's all in a browser.
20:27 < SDuensin> If you're doing virtual servers, it's great.  If you virtualize any clients, the video performance is pretty bad.
20:28 < bernd_> Oh, so it is a web console?
20:29 < bernd_> The screen content being made available in your browser?
20:29 < SDuensin> Yea.  There is a plugin for the browser to let you access the VM's consoles, or you can VNC to them.
20:29 < bernd_> I think virtualbox has an integrated RDP server for that purpose.
20:29 < bernd_> Just not the OSE version.
20:29 < bernd_> Would that be comparable?
20:29 < SDuensin> Very similar, yea.
20:29 < bernd_> I see.
20:30 < SDuensin> VirtualBox is nice, but I like the management tools VMware provides since I run a crapload of VMs.
20:30 < bernd_> Ever tried paravirtualization like Xen?
20:30 < bernd_> I see.
20:30 < SDuensin> Played with Xen a bit.  I need more OS support than it provides.  I still have a DOS VM!
20:30 < bernd_> But is it worth the effort regarding performance?
20:30 < bernd_> I understand that you need to adapt the guest.
20:31 < SDuensin> If you're doing all Linux, probably.  Then again, I'm really pleased with my VMware performance.  One of my VMs does video streaming and transcoding!
20:32 < jmarsden|work> bernd_: I think vmware vs virtualbox is more about who will use the VMs ... vmware "appliances" can be given to the gneral public of Windows users for demos etc; virtualbox is less common for that
20:33 <+perlDreamer> it's kind of like OGG vs MP3
20:33 < bernd_> But virtualbox provides image compatibility afaik.
20:33 < bernd_> Or is that just for import?
20:33 < SDuensin> jmarsden|work - It all boiled down to the management for me.  I've had 9 VMs going at once on my server.  Very nice to be able to point-and-click between them and get overviews of the resources each is using.
20:34 < jmarsden|work> bernd_: I have not tried converting images between the two... that's an interesting thing, I'll have to try it :)
20:34 < bernd_> I think I read that virtualbox supports vmdk.
20:35 < bernd_> That means you should at least be able to boot vmware images.
20:35 < bernd_> Not sure whether it works with vmdk internally.
20:37 < SDuensin> I got a buddy who swears by VirtualBox.  I just never really got into it that much.
20:38 < jmarsden|work> bernd_: default disk image files for virtualbox are .vdi files, at least on my installation...
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21:06 < bkqmackey> anyone out there familiar with the YUI menu?
21:06 <+perlDreamer> with more details, perhaps :)
21:07 < bkqmackey> I just upgraded to 7.5.37, and my YUI menu is not only calling my CSS it's using the Skin that YUI includes, but I can't see where it's being called from?
21:07 < bkqmackey> and it's overriding my CSS and screwing with my text
21:08 < bkqmackey> it's not called in my head block for the menu where the normal CSS is?
21:08 < bkqmackey> (I discovered this using WebDeveloper)
21:09 <+perlDreamer> some WebGUI script tags are output inline, due to the chunked nature of how it makes output
21:11 < bkqmackey> any idea how to fix/stop it?
21:11 < bkqmackey> I'm not sure exactly what you meant...
21:12 <+perlDreamer> well, 1) you need to make sure that the YUI css calls are in the source of the page
21:12 <+perlDreamer> and then you need to make sure that the CSS is scoped correctly
21:13 <+perlDreamer> if you're leaking a div tag, or they're in the wrong order, that could be the problem
21:13 <+perlDreamer> and, there was a Navigation problem that was fixed in 7.6.8 and 7.5.38
21:15 < bkqmackey> well the source code shows my css, then under the JS there's a link href to the SAM skin, but I don't see it when I go to edit the html/head block of the nav
21:16 < bkqmackey> that's where I guess I'm confused.
21:17 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI 7.5?
21:17 < bkqmackey> yes
21:17 < bkqmackey> on Windows
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21:18 <+perlDreamer> the link to skins/sam/menu.css comes from the WebGUI core code
21:18 <+perlDreamer> inside Asset/Wobject/Navigation.pm
21:20 < bkqmackey> Hmm.  would it be a problem that there's no Navigation.pm in the Wobject folder?
21:21 < bkqmackey> wait, found it.
21:21 < bkqmackey> I was in the wrong place, sorry.
21:22 < bkqmackey> Do you think I should delete that line then?
21:28 < bkqmackey> hmm, that did not seem to do anything.
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21:41 <+perlDreamer> if you delete Navigation.pm, WebGUI won't make navigations anymore
21:42 <+perlDreamer> it would be better to fix the CSS issue
21:44 < bkqmackey> no, I'm sorry, I just tried deleting the line that called that CSS
21:44 < bkqmackey> I actually ended up renaming the CSS so it couldn't find it, which worked, but right now not sure how that'll impact me in the future.
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22:10 < carogray> hi all - where is the list of contributions that used to be? We have tried to put the EmailEncode macro into our system, Graham enabled it back in December but it still isn't working. I don't know how it's supposed to work can someone point me to it? I can't find reference to it in either PB online support, WG support or the wikis
22:13 <@rizen> webgui.org/bazaar
22:14 < carogray> hah! I didn't even look there - thought it was the shop where you could buy all the purple octopus kit! sheesh! thanks
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08:25 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9197 /tools/translationserver.cgi: 
08:25 < CIA-46> WebGUI: Prevent namespace files from being created, unless they already exist in the English
08:25 < CIA-46> WebGUI: translation.
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21:05 < daviddelikat> anybody know what happened to WSClient.pm?
21:20 < daviddelikat> there is no wsclient module in the svn archive yet it is available in the content menu
21:27 < jmarsden> There is lib/WebGUI/Help/Asset_WSClient.pm -- is that what you are looking for?  Or ./lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_WSClient.pm ?
21:49 < daviddelikat> that would be helpfu, if I had a copy of the code module it descibes :)
21:51 < daviddelikat> I actually have a copy of the module, but I'm wondering if the module is still part of the system.  these things don't usually disapear from source control without some cause...
21:52 < daviddelikat> perhaps the function has been retired?
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01:28 < jmarsden> daviddelikat: I found the svn revision where it was removed, r8769.  The log entry was:
01:29 < jmarsden> r8769 | graham | 2008-12-02 16:32:58 -0800 (Tue, 02 Dec 2008) | 1 line
01:29 < jmarsden> removing WSClient
01:29 < jmarsden> Unfortunately the svn log comment does not say *why* it was removed :)
01:40 < daviddelikat> jmarsden: thanks, I also found the entry...
01:41 < jmarsden> Sounds like time to ask on the dev forum/list?  Or ask graham, if you know who graham is?
01:45 < daviddelikat> he's up at the top of the list there, but right now I'm working on other stuff, so I'm putting it off till later...
01:45 < daviddelikat> thanks again for your research
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03:49 < Radix__> graham is Haarg
03:49 < Radix__> jmarsden & daviddelikat
03:52 < jmarsden> Radix__: Thanks, that's what david_delikat said earlier... "he's up at the top of the list.."
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20:53 < CIA-46> WebGUI: translation * r9198 /translations/Portuguese/ (18 files in 2 dirs): Update from translation server
21:22 < CIA-46> WebGUI: translation * r9199 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (4 files): Update from translation server
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23:39 < CIA-46> WebGUI: translation * r9200 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (6 files): Update from translation server
--- Day changed Mon Jan 12 2009
00:34 <+BartJol> <is_complete dutch_translation>=1
00:34 < CIA-46> WebGUI: translation * r9201 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (Asset_Calendar.pm Asset_MatrixListing.pm Asset_Matrix.pm): Update from translation server
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00:34 < CIA-46> WebGUI: translation * r9203 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Account.pm: Update from translation server
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02:49 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9205 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_MatrixListing.pm: fix i18n typo in MatrixListing.
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03:20 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9206 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Gallery.pm: Clarify size vs density in the ImageGallery i18n.
03:20 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9207 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Gallery.pm: backporting AssetGallery i18n fix.
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06:54 < CIA-46> WebGUI: frank * r9208 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Account/Contributions.pm: Fixed a bug where posts would error because they didn't point to the thread
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18:10 < SDuensin> Greetings.
18:12 <+perlDreamer> Hola, SDuensin.  Is the shop still giving you fits?
18:13 < SDuensin> I'm just going to have a zillion entries in the variants drop down.
18:27 <@Haarg> if we're putting #! lines on the utility scripts, shouldn't they be marked executable?
18:28 <+perlDreamer> yes
18:29 <@Haarg> should probably adjust them to be runnable from any path as well
18:29 <@Haarg> but i'll set them executable right now
18:34 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9209 /WebGUI/sbin/installClass.pl: Add license boiler plate to installClass.
18:34 < CIA-46> WebGUI: graham * r9210 /WebGUI/ (17 files in 2 dirs): marked sbin scripts as executable
18:50 <+perlDreamer> In the wiki, how do I make an attachment show up in the wiki page?
18:51 <@preaction> drag the attachment from the upper box into the page
18:53 <+perlDreamer> Hm.  The instructions in the box say copy and paste.  Does that work too, and does it mean browser level copy and paste?
18:53 <+perlDreamer> click and drag worked fine, btw.  Thanks, preaction.
19:11 < danny_mk> Has anyone seen a better tutorial than the one at the Perl::POE site?
19:13 <+perlDreamer> sorry, danny_mk.  Never done any POE hacking.
19:13 <+perlDreamer> You could check the spectre code, though.  It's POE based
19:13 < danny_mk> sure, that would be a great tutorial :-P
19:13 <+perlDreamer> well, it's practical... ;)
19:14 < danny_mk> gotcha!
19:16 <@preaction> i learned a lot from the poe.perl.org site
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19:50 < jmarsden|work> Haarg: Do you have a minute to talk about the idea of "should probably adjust them to be runnable from any path as well" for the scripts?  That would be great for packagers; in general, if they could all call one function to find out where webguiRoot is, or some centralized solution like that, this would work for for WRE, source, and packaged installs.  But there's a "catch-22" - where do you put the "central place to set w
19:50 < jmarsden|work> ebguiRoot" code? /usr/local/lib/site_perl/ maybe??
19:53 <@Haarg> not at the moment, but i'll be back in a little bit
19:53 < jmarsden|work> OK.
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20:02 <+perlDreamer> http://www.heise-online.co.uk/open/features/print/112388
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20:19 <@bopbop> perlDreamer: is your presentation from wuc 08 on the WUC site?
20:19 <@bopbop> to common programming mistakes one
20:19 <@bopbop> to- the
20:19 <+perlDreamer> I mailed it to Jamie last Thursday, right before he fired me for being 7 months late
20:19 <+perlDreamer> Would you like a copy?
20:19 <@bopbop> yes please :)
20:21 <+MrHairgrease> perlDreamer: I don't need a copy copy, but another beer would be appreciated =)
20:21 < SDuensin> Wait!  What?  Huh?  Where have I been?  There's beer?!
20:21 <+perlDreamer> I'll see what I can do, MrHairgrease.  Any preferences?
20:22 <+MrHairgrease> SDuensin: that's what happens if you don't attend the wuc
20:22 <+MrHairgrease> pd: no
20:22 <+MrHairgrease> =)
20:22  * SDuensin was busy destroying a database.
20:22 <@preaction> better than beer, imho
20:22 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin, at the WUC last year, I ran a game show
20:22 <@preaction> they should all be destroyed!
20:23 <+perlDreamer> I showed some core code, and asked the audience to figure out the bugs in them
20:23 <+MrHairgrease> preaction, global destruction is always nicer with beer
20:23  * SDuensin is auto generating a ton of variants based on a few base variants already in the database.
20:23 <+perlDreamer> I gave out candy, but had a special prize for MrHairgrease, since he codes better with a beer in him
20:23 <+MrHairgrease> true
20:23 <+MrHairgrease> but only upto a certain treshold
20:24 <+perlDreamer> 1 beer lubricates the gears
20:24 <+MrHairgrease> after that performance degrades severely
20:24 <+perlDreamer> indeed
20:24 <+MrHairgrease> but the corny jokes ratio keeps increasing 
20:25 <+MrHairgrease> is that presentation on webgui.tv already btw?
20:25 <@bopbop> got it- thanks perldreamer
20:25 <+perlDreamer> MrHairgrease, I hear it's coming
20:25 <+MrHairgrease> nice
20:27 -!- MrHairgrease is now known as MrAfkGraese
20:27 < SDuensin> Oh hell.  I've forgotten about a little thing we like to call "recursion".
20:29 <+perlDreamer> Need some firebug help
20:29 <+perlDreamer> it's keeping track of old version of my page as I load it
20:29 <+perlDreamer> and since the page has inlined scripts, I can't tell if the new code is working or not
20:30 <+perlDreamer> any ideas on how to clear out the old versions, or to stop its caching?
20:30 <@preaction> perlDreamer: i've found i either have to close firebug or reload the page twice
20:31  * perlDreamer has a strong, love hate relationship with Firebug
20:34 <+perlDreamer> I have a similar one with js, but it is a hate/mainly dislike relationship.
20:35 < SDuensin> I HATE NOT BEING ABLE TO SEE WHAT'S IN MY DATABASE!    ARRRRRRGH!
20:35 < SDuensin> Sorry.  :-)
20:35 <+perlDreamer> you hate not being able to query it like SQL, but the data is in there
20:36 < SDuensin> Yea, and it's hard as hell to read and manage.  I'm coping.  Just not happy.  :-)
20:54 < SDuensin> perlDreamer - FYI, this is what I was trying to avoid:   http://ut.jaegertech.net/products/rings/r9904-r9903?cat=ring&num=2
20:54 < SDuensin> Look at all those choices!
20:55 <+perlDreamer> I've been learning JS.  Why not use it to break apart the choices, build separate form elements, and then override the save button to put them back together?
20:55 < SDuensin> Because that's a lot of work.  :-P
20:55 <+perlDreamer> Actually, I think "learning" is a bit of an oversimplification.
20:56 <+perlDreamer> Flailing and screaming at it would be more accurate.
20:56 < SDuensin> hehehe
20:57 < SDuensin> Every time you talk about learning JS, it makes me want to learn Cappuccino again.  And I don't have time!  :-)
20:59 <@Haarg> jmarsden|work, regarding making them runnable from anywhere, i think having it based on the script's location is the best way to go
20:59 <@Haarg> if someone wanted to separate the perl code from the rest of the files they would have to modify the scripts, but that's not really a standard/supported way to install it
20:59 < jmarsden|work> Well, that fails when the scripts need to be in /usr/share/webgui/sbin for FHS compliance... 
21:00 < jmarsden|work> Or rather, in /usr/bin --- my bad.
21:00 <@Haarg> the scripts are going to have to be modified for that no matter what we do really
21:01 < jmarsden|work> Well, if there were just one place where webguiROot was defined, that would be one place to change; not once per script...
21:02 <@Haarg> there's really no way to do that though with the way things currently are
21:03 < jmarsden|work> Well, if you (thinking out loud) had each script use a package WebGUIConf and fall back to a path say /data/WebGUI/whatever for the root if it can't load that package... then you could drop the package into /usr/local/lib/site_perl and that would set webguiRoot consistently across all scripts... ?
21:04 < jmarsden|work> Intuitively it feels wrong to have one constant (the location of webguiRoot) embedded in many scripts.
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22:28 < elnino> quick question:  To have two installs of webgui on the same server, would involve a manual install, right? or is there a way to use wre?
22:30 < bernd_> You can run many sites with the wre.
22:31 < bernd_> Or do you want to have to completely independent installations?
22:31 < elnino> I know, but we're using webgui as a framework for an internal application,
22:31 < bernd_> two
22:31 < elnino> and it probably will along side a vanilla untouched wre that hosts our corporate website.
22:31 < elnino> yes, two.  =)
22:31 < bernd_> ?
22:32 <@Haarg> if you wanted to run multiple versions of webgui you could use the wre, but there would be a fair bit of manual configuration.  you'd need to run a separate modperl server for instance.
22:32 < bernd_> And if you use two virtual appliances instead?
22:33 < bernd_> Or one at least.
22:33 < elnino> that is a possiblity.
22:33 < elnino> hmm. lets put it this way.. maybe I can get by with one install. I have a bunch of new assesthat I want to have in one webgui, but not the other.
22:33 < elnino> s/assesthat/assets that/
22:33 < bernd_> I think that can be configured on a per site basis.
22:33 <@Haarg> you can configure that in the config file for each site
22:34 < bernd_> I was first :-)
22:34 < elnino> I *Hope* I don't have to modify any of the base code to support these new assets.
22:35 < elnino> But I have a feeling I will, because the result will be a webgui install that only has an asset tree and "edit properties" screens available, there is no "website" or "turn admin off" mode. 
22:35 < elnino> s/asset tree/asset manager/
22:36 < bernd_> Why disable it if you could just hide it?
22:37 < elnino> hide it via the viewable permissions?
22:37 < elnino> or config file?
22:38 < bernd_> Just switch to admin mode after login, somehow, and do not provide a link for switching?
22:38 < bernd_> back
22:40 < elnino> ok.. I can probably do that with a minor change to the autho mod.
22:40 < elnino> s/autho/auth
22:40 < elnino> terrible typing!! sorry.
22:41 < bernd_> You could probably also configure mod_proxy to append something like ?func=edit to every url.
22:42 < bernd_> Since we are talking about dirty hacks, you could also embed a macro in the first page that does the job.
22:42 < elnino> hmmm. cleaver.
22:42 < bernd_> That way you would not have to change the core.
22:42 < elnino> s/cleaver/clever
22:42 < elnino> very clever.  ok you're convincing.
22:42 < bernd_> Not often :-)
22:43 < elnino> these creative ideas are very timely.
22:43 < elnino> we were considering reinventing the wheel using java
22:44 < bernd_> For what you just described?
22:44 < elnino> yes
22:45 < elnino> well, and for all the assets we have to create that I didn't mention.
22:46 < elnino> my issues with using webgui was, multi installs (which you addresses) disabling the website (which you addressed) and creating dynamic edit pages (instead of hardcoding properties like webgui currently does), but I think
22:46 < elnino> I worked that out in my mind. I hope.
22:47 < bernd_> Good luck!
22:47 < elnino> and I really don't want to modify the base code, but I think I convinced the hardware engineerss (my "customers") that webgui's methods are best (without mentioning webgui because they have no idea what it is.) 
22:47 < elnino> So I think I'm around that issue too.
22:48 < elnino> thanks. i just don't want to start one direction and get stuck and go back tojava.
22:49 <+perlDreamer> ARRRGGGHHHH
22:49 <+perlDreamer> Don't say that word, elnino.
22:49 < bernd_> Better do not disappoint them then ;-)
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22:49 < elnino> I'm sorry.. It was being considered because that thing only language my cowork knows.
22:51 < bernd_> jmarsden, do you know the URL of your PPA by heart?
22:51 < bernd_> Or jmarsden|work, maybe?
22:51 < jmarsden|work> bernd_: for looking at it, or for a deb line in /etc/apt/sources.list?
22:52 < bernd_> The latter.
22:52 < jmarsden|work> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/jmarsden/ubuntu intrepid main
22:53 < elnino> The ?edit screen, is defined by each pm module for each asset, right? like www_edit or something...
22:53 < bernd_> Bu I think I found it already.
22:53 < bernd_> Is it "deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/jmarsden/ubuntu intrepid main"?
22:53 < bernd_> Looks the same to me?
22:54 < jmarsden|work> Isn't that what I just posted here?
22:54 < bernd_> elnino, I would think so but I am not 100% certain.
22:54 < bernd_> Is it defined in Asset.pm or Wobject.pm?
22:54 < bernd_> In that case you should be safe.
22:54 < jmarsden|work> bernd_: I use http://launchpad.net/~jmarsden/+archive to poke around by hand, but that won't work for deb lines.
22:55 < bernd_> Seems to be a timing issue. I typed it before I saw your line.
22:55 < jmarsden|work> bernd_: Ah, OK.
22:55 < elnino> bernd_ yes, it would be subclassed...   so this is good news for me. I'm pretty sure that is what I read in the developers book.
22:56 < bernd_> Thanks for your help.
22:56 < bernd_> I am going to test immediately.
22:56 < jmarsden|work> Cool, let me know how it goes :)
22:57 <+perlDreamer> elnino, it is always www_edit, unless you are adding, in which case it is www_add
22:59 < bernd_> perlDreamer, and the URL is always "?func=edit"?
22:59 < elnino> cool, because what I need to do there, is the "edit properties" screen is dynamically displayed based on data stored in a another custom asset's table.
23:00 < elnino> and by all indications, I should be able to do that too.
23:00 <+perlDreamer> bernd: always, for an asset's core properties
23:00 <+perlDreamer> but for things like collateral, or uploads, or whatever, there's no consistent pattern
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23:03 < bernd_> Thanks, perlDreamer!
23:04 < elnino> Thank you perlDreamer and bernd_ I'm going to sleep on all this now, and make sure I have all the open-ended questions covered.
23:05 < elnino> Oh.. is there a setting to NOT have something version controlled?  I take it it would not be subclassed from asset, so what would it be subclassed from?  We need to have some version control and some not,  OR
23:06 < elnino> have some automatically be committed while others are not
23:06 < elnino> s/setting/property
23:07 < elnino> so I guess it would be like changing the system settings vs, changing properties of an asset.
23:08 < bernd_> You could do that via separate workflows.
23:08 < bernd_> Create one for auto-commit,
23:08 < bernd_> and another one for manual approval.
23:08 < bernd_> Would that work?
23:08 < elnino> the work flow would need to know what class type the asset is.
23:09 < elnino> so I suppose that would work, unless other changes to other assets get's into the same version tag.
23:09 < bernd_> Isn't the asset passed along to the workflow?
23:10 < elnino> yes, but if the version tag included changes to a "non versionable" asset and a "versionable" asset, what would I do? Or am I thinking too late in the process?
23:11 < bernd_> Just make them run not in parallel.
23:11 < elnino> I would have to check the asset class BEFORE putting it under a version tag. So if i'm in a version tag already, and I modified a non-versionable asset, it would need to create a new version tag and committ it immediately....  that should work, right?
23:11 < bernd_> Process one asset per time.#
23:12 < bernd_> Check the type and auto-commit if it is appropriate.
23:12 < bernd_> Collect everything else in a version tag.
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23:12 < elnino> I would "check the type and auto-commit" in what workflow?
23:14 < elnino> or would that be the result if I change it to parallel?  I don't know much about workfows... Assets I can handle, but I really need to learn how to grasp workflows.
23:14 < bernd_> Not sure. Would have to look it up.
23:14 < bernd_> But I think you would have to write your own workflow activities.
23:15 < elnino> ok. I'm thinking this is a totally custom workflow, as opposed to tweaking an existing one.
23:15 < elnino> right. You said it first. =)
23:15 < bernd_> But at least it is pluggable.
23:15 < elnino> YES!!!
23:15 < elnino> Thank you plainblack!
23:15 < bernd_> Good night, elnino :-)
23:16 < elnino> right..!  I'll go now... 
23:20 <+perlDreamer> yay! javascript is working
23:20 <+perlDreamer> booo!  CSS is not
23:20 < bernd_> jmarsden|work, I have unmet dependencies.
23:21 < jmarsden|work> Really?  They are not in my PPA?  Which dependencies?
23:21 < bernd_> Check these error messages: deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/jmarsden/ubuntu intrepid main
23:21 < bernd_> No, wrong.
23:21 < bernd_> These: http://webgui.pastebin.com/d35713f08
23:22 < bernd_> Why does "apt-get install webgui" not pull in all the packages it needs?
23:22 < jmarsden|work> It does, for me.... did you do sudo apt-get update after adding that deb line ?
23:23 < bernd_> Oh, damn! I know why...
23:23 < bernd_> The JeOS version I have installed is hardy!
23:23 < bernd_> Seems like I must do a release upgrade first.
23:23 < jmarsden|work> Ah... yes, that would explain it.  I've not even attempted backporting to Hardy.
23:24 < bernd_> Haven't you tested with JeOS as well?
23:24 < jmarsden|work> With the one from the Ubuntu Server 8.10 CD, yes.
23:24 < bernd_> I see. Mine was downloaded from the web page.
23:24 < bernd_> I probably selected the last LTS release without knowing.
23:24 < bernd_> Alright.
23:25 < jmarsden|work> Sounds like it.
23:25 < bernd_> Seems like I will have to postpone testing until tomorrow :-(
23:25 < jmarsden|work> Oh well... at least you are nearly there!
23:25 < jmarsden|work> DOwnloading the 8.10 server CD should only take an hour or so though... unless you have a very slow Internet connection?
23:26 < bernd_> Slow...
23:26 < bernd_> Sometimes it is fast.
23:26 < bernd_> But not often.
23:26 < jmarsden|work> :)  OK.
23:26 < bernd_> But something else: would it not make sense to support hardy?
23:26 < jmarsden|work> Yes, long term it probably would, because it is LTS.
23:27 < bernd_> I mean webgui is for server use, isn't it?
23:27 < bernd_> Any plans to backport?
23:28 < jmarsden|work> Maybe... I'd like to get it into Jaunty as a priority... Hardy has even fewer of the dependencies that webgui needs, so I think my PPA will explode with many lib*-*-perl packages for Hardy to work!
23:29 < bernd_> Is it not allowed to pull them in via CPAN?
23:29 < bernd_> I mean, as long as the webgui package takes care of it?
23:29 < jmarsden|work> It is allowed as it it will work, but it is not allowed (as far as I know) to do that in an official Ubuntu package.  Itwould make packaging on CD or DVD useless unles syou have a live Internet connection at install time,for example
23:30 < bernd_> Yeah, you are right.
23:30 < jmarsden|work> And Ernesto has done such a great job of getting all the lib*-*-perl stuff packaged for Debian, it seems sad not to take advantage of that :)
23:31 < bernd_> Going to start the upgrade and to bed afterwards.
23:31 < bernd_> Happy hacking!
23:31 < jmarsden|work> OK, bye for now!
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23:32 < elnino> exit
23:32 < elnino> Thought I was in putty.  =)
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23:39 <+perlDreamer> c_thomas, just install Template::Toolkit
23:40 <+perlDreamer> either that, or add WebGUI::Asset::Template::TemplateToolkit.pm to preload.exclude in the sbin directory
23:40 < bernd_> jmarsden|work, one more thing:
23:40 < jmarsden|work> Sure
23:40 < bernd_> Do you remember how to upgrade from LTS to non-LTS?
23:40 < bernd_> do-release-upgrade tells me that there is no new version.
23:41 < jmarsden|work> Hmmm, something about a -d option?  Let me see if I can find out...
23:41 < bernd_> --help does not say anything about it.
23:43 -!- khenn [n=khenn@h69-129-249-122.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net] has quit []
23:43 < jmarsden|work> There is a -d option in the do-release-upgrade script in Intrepid... I don't have a Hardy one here to look at.
23:43 < jmarsden|work> It is in Python so you can less /usr/bin/do-release-upgrade to check ?
23:43 < bernd_> But -d is devel.
23:44 < jmarsden|work> -p maybe?? for proposed??
23:45 < bernd_> Nope. But I found it.
23:45 < bernd_> You have to change /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades.
23:45 < bernd_> See this URL: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/IntrepidUpgrades
23:45 < bernd_> Now it's working!
23:45 < bernd_> Thanks nevertheless.
23:46 < jmarsden|work> OK, glad you found it.
23:46 < jmarsden|work> Ah, yes, I remember doing that in the GUI on a Hardy desktop...
23:46 < bernd_> Again, good night everyone!
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23:55 <+perlDreamer> In general, macros get processed _after_ the template is evaluated, right?
23:56 <@Haarg> yes
23:59 <+perlDreamer> there was a bug posted about the Snippet, and after going through the code I found it does it in the opposite order
23:59 <+perlDreamer> when the snippet is processed as a template
23:59 <+perlDreamer> I'll build a test and then switch it to way it should work.
--- Day changed Tue Jan 13 2009
00:03 -!- daviddelikat [n=daviddel@h69-129-206-153.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #WebGUI
00:06 <@Haarg> well, i got the syndicated content wide character issue figured out.  i'm just not sure of how to fix it.
00:06 <+perlDreamer> Do you mean you have too many options to choose from, or that it's not possible to get it fixed?
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00:07 <@Haarg> proper fix is a change to XML::TreePP, but we probably need an alternate solution
00:07 < daviddelikat> did you see the email that I sent?
00:08 <@Haarg> yeah, i was writing up a response
00:09 < daviddelikat> is cter?his occuring wrt anything other than the '&reg;' charag
00:09 < daviddelikat> i hate that...
00:10 < daviddelikat> is this happening wrt anything besides the &reg character?
00:10 <@Haarg> any xml entity representing a wide character
00:11 < daviddelikat> but do we have instances of other characters?
00:11 < daviddelikat> i'm thinking that we could map the characters to the html element at the input module
00:12 <@Haarg> the sc needs to be able to accept any rss feed though
00:12 < daviddelikat> i think that the latest version of the edit plugin (third party) might do something like this
00:12 < daviddelikat> ok so the SC needs to do the mapping also
00:13 < daviddelikat> or some solution....
00:13 <@Haarg> well, there's not really any point to doing on the input side
00:13 <@Haarg> i'm still trying to think of a good solution
00:14 <@Haarg> but the best i'm coming up with is monkeypatching XML::TreePP
00:15 <+perlDreamer> how about patching it ourself, and sending the author a patch with test?
00:15 <+perlDreamer> and then waiting for the patch to be released?
00:15 <@Haarg> well, that would be the idea
00:15 <@Haarg> post a patch, and monkeypatch it until then
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00:24 <@Haarg> i'm just going to report the bug to the XML::TreePP author
00:25 <@Haarg> and it can be left at that
00:25 <+perlDreamer> works for me
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00:27 <+perlDreamer> c_thomas, did that work for you?
00:28 < c_thomas> it fix the problem with TemplateToolkit.pm
00:29 < c_thomas> but i still have the problem about get
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00:30 < c_thomas> i created the preload.exclude file
00:32 < c_thomas> i guess you can see this, I just installed this irc application and was just trying to figure out all the pictures
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01:01 <@Haarg> daviddelikat, i'll post back on that bug, but you can consider the sc wide character issue resolved
01:09 < daviddelikat> Haarg i figured as much
01:09 <@Haarg> always annoying when the bug is in someone elses code
01:09 <@Haarg> harder to find and harder to get fixed.
01:10 < CIA-35> WebGUI: colin * r9211 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 
01:10 < CIA-35> WebGUI: Add a test for evaluating templates and macros in the right order
01:10 < CIA-35> WebGUI: in the Snippet. Fix a bug with that.
01:11 < CIA-35> WebGUI: colin * r9212 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Backporting macro/template eval order bug in the Snippet.
01:11 < CIA-35> WebGUI: daviddelikat * r9213 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm): 
01:11 < CIA-35> WebGUI: fixed bug 9428: ASSET::get now includes keywords when
01:11 < CIA-35> WebGUI: called without a property name.
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01:43 <+perlDreamer> can JS be used to remove CSS classes from an element?
01:51 <@Haarg> yeah
01:51 <@Haarg> yui has a function for that
02:00 <+perlDreamer> I'll RTM
02:02 < patspam> YAHOO.util.Dom.removeClass
02:02 < patspam> http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/examples/dom/removeclass.html
02:03 < daviddelikat> Haarg: should bug 9428 get backported?
02:03 < daviddelikat> for that matter should any of the fixes I've made get packported?
02:04 <@Haarg> yes
02:04 <@Haarg> pretty much all bug fixes should be backported
02:04 < daviddelikat> gotta phone call
02:04 <@Haarg> aside from bugs that only affect 7.6
02:07 <+perlDreamer> removeClass does not seem to be working in FF for inherited classes
02:07 <+perlDreamer> let me double check
02:07 <@Haarg> ah
02:07 <@Haarg> that isn't going to work, no
02:08 < daviddelikat> Haarg: what is going to be the easiest way for me to setup a 7.5 environment for this backporting?
02:08 <@Haarg> well, you could move your 7.6 version to something like /data/WebGUI.trunk/
02:09 <+perlDreamer> no, it doesn't work for inherited classes
02:09 <@Haarg> and check out 7.5 as /data/WebGUI_7.5
02:09 <@Haarg> and use symlinks for /data/WebGUI
02:09 <+perlDreamer> so here's the scoop
02:10 <+perlDreamer> I have a span that contains a button that I YUI-fied
02:10 <+perlDreamer> YUI makes the new button a span, which inherits the settings from its parent span, which messes up the button rendering
02:11 < daviddelikat> also, do I need to backport items that do not mention any software version?
02:12 <+perlDreamer> yes, almost all bugs get fixed in both main branches, beta and stable, which in this case are 7.6 and 7.5
02:15 < daviddelikat> what does the svn co command point to for the stable branch?
02:16 <+perlDreamer> https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/branch/WebGUI_7.5
02:16  * perlDreamer goes running
02:16 < patspam> perlDreamer: the class isn't inherited
02:17 < patspam> probably the parent class causes your css rules to target the child element
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03:36 < daviddelikat> I'm trying to start my new WebGUI 7.5 site and I'm getting an error about Matrix_listing table doesn't exist
03:37 < Lisette> hi, how to do to get the content of a thingy?
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04:54 <+perlDreamer> daviddelikat, double check that /data/WebGUI points to your branch location, and that you've restarted Spectre and Apache.
05:01 <+perlDreamer> patspam: if you're curious, http://webgui.pastebin.com/d4f819d3
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05:09 < patspam> perlDreamer: it's the ".editItemRow span" css rule
05:11 < patspam> YUI creates a new span around the button element in the dom when you call the Button constructor
05:11 <+perlDreamer> right
05:11 <+perlDreamer> but I want _most_ of the spans in there to get that rule
05:12 <+perlDreamer> maybe I should call them out explicitly...
05:12 < patspam> the css rule targets all span children of a .editItemRow classed element
05:12 < patspam> just first children perhaps?
05:12 < patspam> .editItemRow > span
05:12 <+perlDreamer> you can say that?
05:12 < patspam> don't think IE will like it though
05:12 <+perlDreamer> I think I'll just move the buttons, or call the rows out manually
05:13 <+perlDreamer> it also wreaks havok with the YUI Rich Editor
05:13  * perlDreamer heads off to brush some teeth and to help the kids visit the Forest of Mirkwood
05:13 <+perlDreamer> bbl
05:14 < patspam> or how about adding .editItemRow span span { float: none; width: auto; }
05:14 < patspam> that will undo you style for any spans nested inside of spans affected by your first rule
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05:35 < wgGuest49> Hello
05:36 < wgGuest49> Umm, anyone there?
05:37 < wgGuest49> Guess not....
05:41 <+perlDreamer> wgGuest49, it's just late, and we're tired and slow
05:41 <+perlDreamer> do you have a question?
05:42 < wgGuest49> heh i understand that
05:42 < wgGuest49> actually it's kind of a broad question.
05:42 <+perlDreamer> out with it!
05:43 < wgGuest49> Well I've been using html/css for years upon years. what sorta advantages does this have over the traditional ways? 
05:43 < wgGuest49> I'm sorta new to this system only heard about it recently.
05:43 <+perlDreamer> wgGuest49, it's kind of like the difference between subroutines and all inlined code.
05:44 <+perlDreamer> with CSS, you change it once, and it's fixed everywhere
05:44 <+perlDreamer> with manual, per element style, you'd better be pretty good with an editor and search/replace
05:44 < wgGuest49> Yeah it does become a pain at times.
05:45 <+perlDreamer> now, that's not too particular to WebGUI, except we always try to make styling the individual parts for WebGUI as easy for people as possible.
05:46 < wgGuest49> Now I heard that after I present the site to my client that with this system they'll be able to update the site on their own easily and without having to call me is that true?
05:47 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI has a steep learning curve, but once you've taught them the basics updating the site will be easy.
05:47 <+perlDreamer> I have yet to find users who do not call to ask for help.
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05:48 < wgGuest49> Does the system still have the ability to me to hardcode if needed?
05:48 <+perlDreamer> What do you mean by hardcode?
05:48 < wgGuest49> do the actual html/css coding myself
05:48 <+perlDreamer> Yes.
05:49 <+perlDreamer> In fact, you can mix dynamically generated content and static content
05:49 < wgGuest49> like dreamweaver's design window? 
05:49 <+perlDreamer> Never used dreamweaver.
05:49 <+perlDreamer> Think of it more like this
05:49 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI presents you with a page
05:50 <+perlDreamer> you can drop dynamic and static elements on it
05:50 < wgGuest49> Ah it's a split panel. top half shows the code bottom half lets you drag/drop etc...
05:50 <+perlDreamer> In that case, kind of.  WebGUI will let you drag and drop elements on the page.  But it won't show you the code level view of the page.
05:51 <+perlDreamer> Have you tried a demo site yet?  It would go a long way to showing that.
05:51 < wgGuest49> I'm going to give it a shot tomorrow as you said it is late heh.
05:51 <+perlDreamer> also, I'd download a copy of the WebGUI Primer from the Bazaar area of webgui.org
05:52 <+perlDreamer> it's a good overview of WebGUI
05:52 < wgGuest49> now i did look at the versions and it seems it's mostly unix based. how often is the windows version updated?
05:52 <+perlDreamer> We have stopped supporting Windows directly due to general lack of interest.
05:53 < wgGuest49> yeah the latest version was a few down the list.
05:53 <+perlDreamer> There have been several threads on the forums about how to use newer versions on Windows.
05:53 < wgGuest49> linux emulation?
05:53 <+perlDreamer>  But in general it's easiest to use the VMWare image on Windows
05:54 <+perlDreamer> see this thread: http://www.webgui.org/install/upgrade_help/windows-install/2#idFDBFevs0f_nk6P3qNlFyzQ
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05:54 < wgGuest15> woops
05:55 < wgGuest15> sorry bout that.
05:55 <+perlDreamer> wgGuest15, you can also set a nickname for yourself, if you prefer
05:55 <+perlDreamer> just say /nick myNewNickname
05:56 -!- wgGuest15 is now known as John
05:56 <+perlDreamer> Hi, John
05:56 < John> Heya :)
05:56 < John> heh it's already registered
05:56 -!- John is now known as Guest3283
05:57 < Guest3283> oh well. I'm bout to crash anyway. 
05:57 < Guest3283> Thanks for answering my questions I'll give the demo a shot in the morning.
05:57 <+perlDreamer> You're welcome, feel free to come back and ask more!
05:58 < Guest3283> I'm sure I will :P
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06:03 <+perlDreamer> patspam, you're a genius
06:39 < CIA-35> WebGUI: colin * r9214 /tools/translationserver.cgi: 
06:39 < CIA-35> WebGUI: Remove lots of extra whitespace.
06:39 < CIA-35> WebGUI: Convert to use the YUI Rich Text Editor.
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07:04 < patspam> perlmonkey2: ding ding
07:14 <@perlmonkey2> patspam: hello
07:14 < patspam> why hello
07:15 < patspam> remember that survey bug i mentioned the other day where one of my surveys text fields exploded into 145mb of garbage data?
07:15 <@perlmonkey2> yes
07:15 <@perlmonkey2> still having problems?
07:15 < patspam> how's this for a smoking gun: In contrast to obsessions, your worries don\x{c3}\x{83}\x{c2}\x{83}\x{c3}\x{82}\x{c2}...
07:16 <@perlmonkey2> hmm, looks like an encoding issue.
07:16 <@perlmonkey2> ?
07:16 < patspam> yeah, explode_on_apostrophe
07:16 < patspam> but possibly only microsoft word apostrophes
07:16 < patspam> I'm trying to trigger it now
07:17 <@perlmonkey2> oh, wow, just realized what was going on (just slept through a dvd and trying to wake up).
07:18 <@perlmonkey2> looks like the windows ` was badly encoded which caused everything behind it to become wide.
07:18 <@perlmonkey2> or something
07:20 < patspam> yeah.. the first thing i can reproduce is that if you put a (') into the text it generates a couple of garbage characters
07:20 < patspam> and then every time you edit/save it the garbled text grows
07:20 < patspam> ...quadratically
07:20 < patspam> =p
07:23 <@perlmonkey2> so the badly encoded chars are reencoded as more malformed chars
07:24 <@perlmonkey2> so win32 `'s being read as UTF8?
07:24 < patspam> yep. and every time you edit any survey field the badness doubles
07:25 < patspam> yeah it's probably a to_json vs encode_json thing
07:26 <@perlmonkey2> okay, I'll give it a go in about 8.5 hours and see what I come up with.
07:26 < patspam> thanks chief!
07:26 <@perlmonkey2> the fun fun encoding fun, never ends.
07:27 < patspam> perl -e 'use JSON; use Data::Dumper; print Dumper(encode_json({a=>"'"})) . Dumper(to_json({a=>"'"}))'
07:35 < patspam> s/from_json/decode_json/g && s/to_json/encode_json/g solves it
08:10 <@perlmonkey2> I thought that was already done.
08:10 <@perlmonkey2> patspam: you might try a diff on your branch because I was pretty sure that was already changed.
08:13 < patspam> looks like to_ and from_ methods are still in trunk
08:13 < patspam> https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey.pm
08:16 <@perlmonkey2> patspam: hmm, then it seems like we went away from encode on purpose.  
08:17 <@perlmonkey2> went to to/from because encoding was being done elsewhere.  I'll have to dig through the code to make sure, but maybe the change has the reason for it in the logs.  Haarg would probably know, he's good about remembering these types of issues.
08:18 <@perlmonkey2> crap, way past my bedtime.  I'll see what I can figure out in the morning patspam and let you know.
08:18 < patspam> for sure!. i'm interested to hear the reasoning when you get to the bottom of it as i do a lot of json encoding in my own code
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16:24 < Lisette> anyone knows about thingy?
16:25 <+BartJol> not much
16:25 < Lisette> about the code?
16:25 < Lisette> the api
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16:25 <+BartJol> never worked with that
16:25 < Lisette> mmmm ok
16:28 <+BartJol> but you can try, the guy that programmed it isn't online very often
16:29 <+BartJol> i'll be back in a minute
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16:32 < Lisette> how to do to get all register of a thing specified?
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16:42 <+BartJol> sorry Lisette, I don't really understand what you're trying to do
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16:45 < Lisette> i want to get all values of a thing
16:47 <+BartJol> it should be www_viewThingData ( )
16:47 <+BartJol> and give the thingId as a parameter
16:50 < Lisette> i try, tjanks
16:50 < Lisette> thanks
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16:54 <+BartJol> Lisette: you know you can find the API on http://www.webgui.org/downloads/builds , right?
17:00 < Lisette> yes
17:02 <+BartJol> ok
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17:07  * danny_mk is curious about the graphics->pallete/graphics->fonts
17:08 < danny_mk> I have seen those options there for a long time however I have no idea what they are used for, and there does not seem to be anything about them in the Wiki
17:09 <+BartJol> danny_mk: I've never used them either, am also wondering about those, but maybe in an old version there is some info
17:13 < danny_mk> I can't believe that questions has never been asked before and it is not in the Wiki
17:13 <+BartJol> well I can imagine that the fonts can be used so people don't actually have to have all fonts installed
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17:15 < danny_mk> I have a feeling they can be useful, maybe I will dig in one of these days and figure out what they do
17:15 < danny_mk> or how they can be used
17:16 <+BartJol> yeah, it's very handy when you can specify colours and fonts, but you also have to know how to incorporate them
17:16 <+BartJol> I can't find much in the help of my old site, where the help was more extensive
17:18 < danny_mk> right, there is not much info on these features
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17:33 <+BartJol> danny_mk: it seems that Mr Hairgrease knows all about this stuff. It can be used in a grahic plugin, maybe his last WUC presentation can be found on the website
17:34 < danny_mk> huh?
17:34 < danny_mk> Hmmmm... now to hunt down that presentation...
17:37 <+BartJol> it has some parts: http://www.webgui.org/uploads/kr/DF/krDFC-JDs7rbX8D3TbWAAA/wuc_file.jpg
17:37 <+BartJol> http://www.webgui.org/uploads/nV/c0/nVc0CptJHtboO5qiaBRi1g/SimpleGauge.pm
17:38 <+BartJol> and http://www.webgui.org/uploads/se/if/seifvo9O4Y3YYuHZXoOrUA/gauging_the_graphing_system.pdf
17:38 <+BartJol> oops
17:39 <+BartJol> http://www.webgui.org/uploads/S1/CL/S1CL_l5LvUBYbaVGyyTEYg/GraphTest.pm
17:39 <+BartJol> instead of that jpg :)
17:39 < danny_mk> alright, thanks, let me take a look at it
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18:01 <@perlmonkey2> Haarg: Did patspam talk to you last night about the ' char and json?
18:06 < danny_mk> Thank you BartJol, it seems that it is mainly use for the charts
18:06 <+BartJol> well, martin made the sheets
18:06 <+BartJol> but, glad to be some help
18:08 <@Haarg> he didn't talk to me about it, but i skimmed the conversation you had
18:22 <@perlmonkey2> Haarg: any idea what to do?  I'm not really sure what's up with the ' anyways
18:22 < Lisette> If I have two thingy and the second one I have the first field type thingy, I can to make filters?
18:22 <@Haarg> i will have to look at it again
18:22 <@Haarg> i need to make sure we're using to_json/from_json consistantly
18:23 <@Haarg> aside from a few special cases
18:23 <@Haarg> survey shouldn't be a special case though
18:26 <@perlmonkey2> hmm, in the wobject dir, only Poll and Calendar still use encode_json and eventmanagersystem and poll use decode_json.  But the survey uses to/from.
18:27 <@perlmonkey2> Haarg: do you know where that char ' comes from?  Is that a Windows apostrophe?
18:28 <@Haarg> seems likely
18:28 <@Haarg> a fancy quote or whatever
18:28 <@Haarg> word sticks those in
18:30 <@perlmonkey2> Haarg: I'm just not sure what is going on with it.  If it isnt' in the utf8 codespace, why can I see it in my utf8 term?  If it is in the codespace, why is it blowing up in a browser/mysql browser dispalying utf8?
18:31 <@Haarg> it is in the utf8 codespace, but it isn't encoded properly
18:31 <@Haarg> i don't know why though
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18:34 < mummy>  oook , iuuuuuuuulll
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18:44 <@perlmonkey2> Haarg: I'm thinking this works :)  perl -MEncode -e"use Data::Dumper;  print Dumper encode('utf8',decode_utf8(''',Encode::LEAVE_SRC));"
18:44 <@perlmonkey2> Encode::LEAVE_SRC just says if it is already wide, leave it alone.
18:44 <@perlmonkey2> and I'm not sure why we would expect octets in from the server?
18:44 <@perlmonkey2> But session::form expects octets.  Does mod_perl handle conversion from the http headers?
18:45 <@Haarg> http headers don't have that information
18:45 <@Haarg> so you just have to make an assumption
18:45 <@Haarg> which means we assume utf8
18:45 <@Haarg> mod_perl doesn't do any conversion
18:46 <@Haarg> but we automatically decode everything that comes in, so everything coming through session->form should already by as characters
18:48 <@perlmonkey2> Haarg: yes, that is the only place a decode appears to happen, at least for survey.
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18:57 <@perlmonkey2> This must be something with WG, because I can decode_utf8 then encode that char on the command line without issue.  
19:01 <@perlmonkey2> Haarg: hmm, maybe its somethign I'm doing on display, because it makes it from the webserver to the database correctly formatted :)
19:03 <@perlmonkey2> narrowed it down to the javascript js decode (you guys loving the play by play?)
19:04  * perlDreamer is still waiting for the pointer and X O chart to be drawn
19:06 <@perlmonkey2> okay, the last trace in the server side, after the json encode shows the text correctly encoded.  But in the javascript, before the json decode is called, the ' chars are malformed.
19:07 <@perlmonkey2> intersting, an index.html with nothing but '''''''''''''''''' turns into âEUR(TM)âEUR(TM)âEUR(TM)âEUR(TM)âEUR(TM)âEUR(TM)âEUR(TM)âEUR(TM)âEUR(TM)âEUR(TM)âEUR(TM)âEUR(TM)âEUR(TM)âEUR(TM)âEUR(TM)âEUR(TM)âEUR(TM)âEUR(TM) when opened in firefox.
19:08 <@Haarg> needs some kind of headers to know the encoding
19:08 <@perlmonkey2> firefox defaults to ISO-8859-1.........and WG doesn't send an encoding in the response header.
19:08 <@perlmonkey2> well that was a long and painful journey to nowhere.
19:09 <@Haarg> ah
19:09 <@Haarg> that makes more sense
19:09 <@Haarg> i was thinking about it terms of that we always serve things with utf8 headers
19:09 <@perlmonkey2> I'm going to go hit myself with  a hammer now.  brb.
19:09 <@Haarg> but that's only for html
19:10 <@Haarg> hmm
19:10 <@perlmonkey2> so app/json should also have the econding in the header?
19:10 <@Haarg> not quite
19:10 <@Haarg> only text/ can have an encoding type
19:11 <@Haarg> i'll have to look at that
19:11 <@perlmonkey2> tell the users to default to utf8?  which they shoudl be anyways?  
19:11 <@Haarg> json doesn't have an official mime type, wonder why application/ is usually chosen
19:15 <@perlmonkey2> Haarg: hmm, I left the deafult mime type and encoding in there, and the json works, but I'm still seeing the bad decodings of that char.  Even though the header says it is utf8.
19:15 <@perlmonkey2> Content-Typetext/html; charset=UTF-8
19:16 <@perlmonkey2> That' sfrom the response header
19:16 <@Haarg> i don't know
19:23 <@perlmonkey2> Haarg: what about HTML encoding and decoding?  
19:23 <@Haarg> i'll have to look at it later
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19:28 <@perlmonkey2> Haarg: Naw, HTML::Encode is only used for encoding the script and link tags, so that can't be it.  I'm running out of ideas.
19:29 <@Haarg> well, i can look at it some later today
19:32 <@perlmonkey2> Haarg: okay, I'm not expecting you to do anything now, just passing along whatever I'm finding.  FYI, the results of running HTML::Entities encode on the char gives the malformed string I'm seeing.  Have zero idea how that is happening both with WG and with just a simple index.html being read directly by firefox.
19:32 <@perlmonkey2> almost like firefox is encoding it.
19:34 <@perlmonkey2> '<hr>&acirc;&#128;&#153;
19:34 <@perlmonkey2> those should not show the same thing in firefox unless firefox sucks.
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19:41 <@perlmonkey2> Haarg: okay, setting firefox to default to utf8 fixed the problem for the index.html.  But I'm still getting the problem in WG.  I've grep'd for all the HTML::Entities calls, and don't see how any could be called on non-tagged content.
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20:15  * perlDreamer goes to the gym
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20:27 < bkqmackey> I was wondering if anyone has seen any issues using YUI menus with IE? When you mouseover and there is a submenu, the background image is repeated, and keeps getting larger the more it's moused over.
20:27 < bkqmackey> This does not happen in FF
20:32 < bkqmackey> It also only happens on the first item that has a submenu, not the second
20:50 <+MrHairgrease> bkqmackey: haven't seen it, but you might want to check http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=165715&atid=836476 and report it if that hasn't been done alreday
20:55 < bkqmackey> Well I put a band-aid on it (not sure how this will impact in the future) but I renamed the new JS files and replaced them with the ones that worked when I was using 7.4.40
20:56 < bkqmackey> And thanks for the link, I'll check if it's over there.
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22:44 < bernd_> Anyone familiar with the gallery?
22:44 < bernd_> I found that templates conditionally include a CSS style sheet called "gallery-ie.css".
22:45 < bernd_> But I cannot find it anywhere.
22:45 < bernd_> Search does not return anything.
22:45 < bernd_> It is supposed to be under "root/import/gallery-templates/gallery-ie.css".
22:48 < bernd_> So, who has hacked the gallery? Hands up!
22:48 <+perlDreamer> bernd_: which version of wG are you running?
22:48 < bernd_> 7.5
22:49 <+perlDreamer> which one?
22:49 < bernd_> 7.5.38 to be precise.
22:49 <+perlDreamer> ah, okay.  That's what I needed.
22:50 < bernd_> perlDreamer, it actually may be possible it was just commented out.
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22:51 < bernd_> That is the code: http://webgui.pastebin.com/d4b4a8856
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22:54 <+perlDreamer> if I create a site from 7.5.38 and go through the upgrade process, I get a gallery-ie.css file in Asset search
22:55 < bernd_> So you upgrade to 7.5.38?
22:55 < bernd_> Or from 7.5.38 to something?
22:55 <+perlDreamer> from 7.5.38 to .39
22:55 <+perlDreamer> and if I make a demo server, it shows up there, too
22:55 <+perlDreamer> so what's special about your site, bernd_?
22:56 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, does the demo server work by using create.sql?
22:56 < bernd_> Not sure.
22:56 < bernd_> Let me search again.
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22:56 <+perlDreamer> gallery-ie is how I found it
22:57 < bernd_> No it is not there.
22:57 < bernd_> When was it included?
22:57 <+perlDreamer> it should have been installed in the upgrade to 7.5.38
22:57 < bernd_> I think I copied the templates from the beta when looking for i18n.
22:57 < bernd_> But if it was included in 7.5.38 it should be there.
22:58 < bernd_> Let my try an update later on.
22:58 < bernd_> That is anyway on my schedule.
22:58 < bernd_> Maybe it will show up then.
22:58 <+perlDreamer> no, if you're using 7.5.38 now it should be in there
22:59 < bernd_> Hm.
22:59 < bernd_> So obviously it was not included.
22:59 < bernd_> I do not remember any error messages upon my last update.
23:00 < Lisette> anyone know about the api of thingy?
23:00 <+perlDreamer> what are you trying to do, Lisette?
23:01 < bernd_> perlDreamer, I am stupid!
23:01 <+perlDreamer> Hardly
23:02 < bernd_> My version is 7.5.37!
23:02 < bernd_> It only says that 7.5.38 is available.
23:02 < bernd_> Stupid?
23:02 <+perlDreamer> ah, in that case, I recommend an upgrade ;)
23:02 < bernd_> Sorry for taking time from you.
23:02 <+perlDreamer> Rosa kartoffel kopf?
23:02 < bernd_> It is written in one word.
23:02 < bernd_> Where did you get that one from?
23:02 <+perlDreamer> My wife's brother.
23:03 < bernd_> Did he say it to you?
23:04 <+perlDreamer> Yes, he was telling me that he and his friends made up words in German class by stringing them together
23:04 <+perlDreamer> and actually, I remembered it incorrectly
23:04 <+perlDreamer> it was rosakartoffelzaft
23:04 <+perlDreamer> Pink pototo juice
23:04 < bernd_> saft
23:04 < bernd_> What is it supposed to mean?
23:05 <+perlDreamer> Pink potato juice
23:05 <+perlDreamer> a non-sense word
23:05 <+perlDreamer> since potatoes are not pink, nor are they juiced
23:06 < bernd_> I see.
23:07 <+perlDreamer> it was a poor way of demonstrating something stupid.  I'm sorry.
23:07 < bernd_> No problem =)
23:08 < bernd_> I was just confused.
23:08 < Lisette> i need to get the values of a thing
23:08 <+perlDreamer> Lisette, check out the search and view methods for clues on how to do that
23:09 <+perlDreamer> I don't think there's a straight-forward way to get values for a Thing
23:09 <+perlDreamer> but I could be wrong
23:09 <+perlDreamer> I think it's all done with SQL
23:09 < Lisette> mmm ok
23:09 < Lisette> thanks
23:10 < Lisette> another question perlDreamer, i can to get a value of a field in a definition of a paydriver by code?
23:11 <+perlDreamer> Sure.  I think paydrivers have a ->get method?
23:11 <+perlDreamer> yes, they do
23:12 <+perlDreamer> so you can do $payDriver->get('vendorId') if you have an ITransact PayDriver
23:12 < Lisette> 'vendorId' is the label in a definition?
23:15 <+perlDreamer> yes
23:15 <+perlDreamer> Shop/PayDriver/ITransact.pm, line 355
23:21 < Lisette> thanks
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01:03 <+perlDreamer> syntax highlighting in vim works so much better when you name the modules foo.pm instead of foo.com
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04:01 < wgGuest76> perlDreamer: sorry we got disconneted there, but my battery went quite suddenly
04:01 <+perlDreamer> I hate it when that happens
04:01 < wgGuest76> and now i can't get connected as myself.
04:02 <+perlDreamer> because your other account hasn't timed out yet
04:02 <+perlDreamer> preaction, perlmonkey2, steveo_aa, could you please kick daviddelikat?
04:02 < wgGuest76> well, I'll be a little while anyway, I was jsut going to tell you that I'm haaving server problems
04:03 < wgGuest76> shouldn't be but a couple of minutes though, something just did not boot correctly...
04:03 <+perlDreamer> daviddelikat, while you get back online, please find out what the error messages were with mod_p{erl,roxy} and pastebin them for me.
04:03 <+perlDreamer> I have to go start a kid in a shower.
04:03 < wgGuest76> yeah I'm trying to get three to go to bed too.
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04:07 <+perlDreamer> i've found it easier to put them to bed than to shower them
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04:09 < wgGuest76> indeed, showers are the ultimate in parental test
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04:16 <@perlmonkey2> whups
04:19 <+perlDreamer> I'll be back soon, gotta enqueue  a new kid into the shower
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04:19 <@perlmonkey2> daviddelikat: sorry about that.
04:19 <@perlmonkey2> did the invite let you back in?
04:19 < daviddelikat> perlmonkey2 no more kicking please
04:20 < daviddelikat> did i get an invite?
04:20 <@perlmonkey2> yeah I sent one
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04:41 < CIA-46> WebGUI: jt * r9215 /experimental/Automat/lib/ (WebGUI/Asset/Automat.pm Automat/Site.pm): switcheroo on site/domain creation
04:47 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2, using the WRE, how easy is it to switch back forth between 7.5 and 7.6?
04:50 <@perlmonkey2> ah, well the way I do it is extremely simple.
04:50 <@perlmonkey2> I keep multiple complete installs soft linked
04:50 <@perlmonkey2> /datahead /data7.5head /data7.5.23 etc.
04:50 <+perlDreamer> and after switching softlinks, how do you build a new site?
04:51 <@perlmonkey2> like I would with a new install?  What do you mean?
04:51 <+perlDreamer> okay, say I've been working on a 7.6 site
04:51 <@perlmonkey2> ./wreconsole? or addsite.pl?
04:51 <+perlDreamer> and I have to back port some svn changes to 7.5
04:51 <+perlDreamer> i softlink over to 7.5
04:51 <+perlDreamer> then how do I create the new site?
04:51 <+perlDreamer> to test the changes with?
04:52 <@perlmonkey2> oh, you want to backport a site to 7.5.  Not sure I've ever done that.  
04:52 <+perlDreamer> no, not a site
04:52 <+perlDreamer> remember, I'm WRE ignorant
04:52 <@perlmonkey2> ah
04:52 <+perlDreamer> so after softlinking back to a 7.5, I just run addsite.pl or wreconsole and I'm good to go/
04:52 <+perlDreamer> ?
04:52 <@perlmonkey2> yep
04:53 < daviddelikat> thanks
04:53 <@perlmonkey2> just make sure you've stopped the first instance completely, then link data to the other site and I always use wreconsole
04:53 <+perlDreamer> okay
04:53  * perlDreamer takes a break to become Dentist Daddy...
04:54 < daviddelikat> oooo a loose tooth
04:54 <@perlmonkey2> I'm pretty sure there is a much better way.  But I can switch instances in 3 commands.
04:54 <@perlmonkey2> good enough for me :)
05:14 <+perlDreamer> not bad at all
05:26 < daviddelikat> perlmonkey2: so when i'm setting myself up for multi-version sites I want to make sure that i have a unique database for each version do i just make a different dbuser in the WebGUI conf file?
05:29 <+perlDreamer> you should be able to use the same user for all dbs
05:29 <@perlmonkey2> daviddelikat: hmm, I make completely unique sites.  Each directory has its own WRE and WebGUI and domains.
05:29 <@perlmonkey2> So the dbusers can be all the same with the same pwd's as they aren't with the same databases.
05:30 < daviddelikat> the site name is a parameter for addsite.pl?
05:30 <@perlmonkey2> yes
05:30 <+perlDreamer> perl addsite.pl --help
05:30 <@perlmonkey2> www.thesitename.com
05:39 < daviddelikat> perlmonkey2 still fails, modperl is trying to read localhost.conf
05:39 < daviddelikat> i called the new server local7_5
05:40 < daviddelikat> there is a conf file names www.local7_5.com.conf
05:41 < daviddelikat> this was the command i used
05:41 < daviddelikat> perl /data/wre/sbin/addsite.pl --sitename=www.local7_5.com  --adminPassword=123qwe
05:41 < daviddelikat> the help showed the sitename with www...com
05:41 < daviddelikat> should i heve left that off?
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05:43 <@perlmonkey2> no, I usually use www.test.com
05:43 <+perlDreamer> so it overwrites each time?
05:44 <@perlmonkey2> no, I only create it once for each site.
05:44 <@perlmonkey2> hmm
05:44 <@perlmonkey2> why is modperl trying to read localhost.conf
05:44 <@perlmonkey2> strange
05:44 < daviddelikat> indeed
05:45 < daviddelikat> there is one difference btwn my config and yours, I only link the WebGUI directory,  not the whole data directory
05:46 < daviddelikat> is that likely to be the problem?
05:47 <+perlDreamer> no
05:48 <@perlmonkey2> well, hmm
05:48 <@perlmonkey2> you use the same WRE instance with multiple WebGUI directories?  I guess as long as each instance had a unique DB, there shouldn't be a problem.
05:49 < daviddelikat> unique db as in site name or ???
05:50 <+perlDreamer> time to go hang up the honyocks, be back in 10
05:50 <@perlmonkey2> as in a unique mysql schema
05:50 <@perlmonkey2> hasta pd
05:51 < daviddelikat> honyocks?
05:51 <@perlmonkey2> daviddelikat: but that wouldn't work for me.  I use www.test.com for everything.
05:51 < daviddelikat> that is why i wanted to use a different site name
05:51 < daviddelikat> hense local7_5
05:52 < daviddelikat> so evertime you switch versions you create a new site?
05:54 <@perlmonkey2> daviddelikat: well when I create a new version I create a new intance of www.test.com.
05:54 <@perlmonkey2> but I really only keep 4 around.
05:54 <@perlmonkey2> 7.5head 7.6head a specific 7.6 and 7.5 which I svn to a specific version then reset the site.
05:55 < daviddelikat> ok I guess I'll just keep the same name, i assume that addsite drops the data tables before it creates anything ...
05:56 <@perlmonkey2> don't know
05:56 <@perlmonkey2> maybe
05:56 < daviddelikat> thanks for your help
05:56 <@perlmonkey2> no problem
05:56 <@perlmonkey2> if you have any issues, yell
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06:12 < daviddelikat> perlmonkey2:  is this a problem?  wreservice.pl --restart all
06:12 < daviddelikat> Restart MySQL:        FAILED!
06:12 < daviddelikat> Restart mod_perl:     FAILED!
06:12 < daviddelikat> Restart mod_proxy:    FAILED!
06:12 < daviddelikat> Restart S.P.E.C.T.R.E.:OK
06:13 <@perlmonkey2> daviddelikat: naw, that means things are groovy
06:13 <@perlmonkey2> :P
06:13 <@perlmonkey2> just kidding
06:13 <@perlmonkey2> yeah, what do the logs say?
06:13 < daviddelikat> I love that FIALED!
06:13 < daviddelikat> wtf
06:13 < daviddelikat> oh yeah logs
06:13 <@perlmonkey2> oh is mysql started?
06:13 <@perlmonkey2> if you have another version going from elsewhere, wreservice wont' stop it.
06:14 <@perlmonkey2> and is /etc/my.cnf (or whatever it is) removed?
06:14 < daviddelikat> no I stopped it... I'll do some investigating and get back
06:15  * daviddelikat getting sleepy
06:32 < daviddelikat> virtual machines are really cool because when they gat totally bunged up you just erase them and start fresh
06:32 < daviddelikat> that assumes that you keep copies of them in stable states...
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06:39 <+perlDreamer> that has to be one of the more unique IRC handles I've seen in a while
06:39 < oddtruncheon> hello, thanks
06:41 < oddtruncheon> i've got a problem
06:41 <+perlDreamer> what's your problem, oddtruncheon?
06:41 <+perlDreamer> we're only good with WebGUI here
06:42 <+perlDreamer> financial and personal problems are a different channel
06:42 < oddtruncheon> the workflow "Send Queued Email Messages" is driving me insane.
06:42 <+perlDreamer> which version of WebGUI are you using?
06:43 < oddtruncheon> i've started sifting through the code to understand it but i'm concerned that i'm missing something far simpler. I just upgraded to 7.5.38
06:44 <+perlDreamer> okay, and what's the problem with the workflow?
06:44 < oddtruncheon> as far as i can tell it never executes
06:44 <+perlDreamer> here are some things to try
06:45 <+perlDreamer> 1) change the log.conf file and set the log level to DEBUG
06:45 <+perlDreamer> this will generate TONS of output and diagnostics
06:45 <+perlDreamer> you'll need to restart WebGUI and spectre to see the changes
06:46 <+perlDreamer> 2) double check that you can connect to your email server
06:46 <+perlDreamer> port forwarding, firewall, proxy issues, the whole 9 yards
06:47 < oddtruncheon> looking at enhanced logs now. (the mail server part should be clean. i can telnet to it via port 25 no problem)
06:48 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9216 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm): 
06:48 < CIA-46> WebGUI: Fix a bug where the getToolbar will set links in the body of the page,
06:48 < CIA-46> WebGUI: even when adminMode is not turned on.
06:48 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9217 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm): 
06:48 < CIA-46> WebGUI: Moving toolbar cache into the getToolbar sub. This was to be the forward port
06:48 < CIA-46> WebGUI: of the getToolbar adminOn fix, but 7.6 already does uses adminOn to prevent
06:48 < CIA-46> WebGUI: extra output from being generated.
06:48 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9218 /wrebuild/wre/sbin/wreupgrade.pl: Set the executable bit on the wreupgrade script.
06:48 <+perlDreamer> man, that colin guy is doing some serious hacking tonight
06:49 <@perlmonkey2> he's on fire!
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07:02 < oddtruncheon> should "192.168.1.0/32" be considered a valid subnet for the spectreSubnets entry in the site config?
07:04 <+Radix-wrk> no, 1.0 isn't a valid ip
07:04 <+Radix-wrk> 192.168.1.1/32 would be
07:04 <+perlDreamer> wouldn't the /32 cover .0 or .1?
07:04 <+Radix-wrk> depends how good the code is
07:05 <+perlDreamer> oddtruncheon, I've only ever seen spectre setup on localhost, 127.0.0.1
07:05 <+perlDreamer> try the WebGUI forums for more on that
07:05 <+perlDreamer> or, the WebGUI Admin Guide
07:06 < oddtruncheon> all the other workflows work fine for me so far which makes it that much more frustrating.
07:06 < oddtruncheon> at least the ones i've tried
07:08 <+perlDreamer> are you sure that your email server is configured correctly in the server settings?
07:11 < oddtruncheon> i was wondering if a port needed to be specified in the smtp server line, but changing the spectresubnet to use 192.168.1.1/32 has changed a number of things in the logs. apparently 192.168.1.0/32 is not valid.
07:11 < oddtruncheon> and apparently more workslows weren't working than i expected.
07:11 < oddtruncheon> s/workslows/workflows/
07:16 <+perlDreamer> workslows
07:16 <+perlDreamer> I like that
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07:26 < oddtruncheon> Well it was the spectresubnets config that was the problem. Changed it to 192.168.1.1/32 and everything worked fine. my thanks to perlDreamer and Radix-wrk for the pointers and info. It definitely helped.
07:26 <+Radix-wrk> cool.. glad that sorted it :)
07:27 < oddtruncheon> The 0 vs 1 thing really threw me cause i've been using 192.168.0.0/32 in other apps/configs for years.
07:28 <+Radix-wrk> yeah?  well 192.168.1.0/24 is valid as it is a subnet
07:28 < oddtruncheon> ah, maybe thats what i'm thinking
07:28 <+Radix-wrk> but 192.168.1.0/32 is not, as a /32 subnet is effectively only one ip
07:29 < oddtruncheon> ug, thats why i always try to specify the full 255.255.255.0 i never get the shorthand right.
07:29 <+Radix-wrk> heh :)
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07:31 < oddtruncheon> i don't even want to think about why my firewall (192.168.1.1) is issuing the request to spectre tonight. I should probably do what I saw in the forums and update my /etc hosts to resolve my site names to 127.0.0.1.
07:34 < oddtruncheon> Thanks again.
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07:45 <+perlDreamer> what's up elnino?
07:45 < elnino> I'm installing wre on a zen server. other than that not much.
07:46 < elnino> and you?
07:46 < elnino> busy with bugs?
07:46 <+perlDreamer> I had a look at the matrix version tag bug tonight
07:46 <+perlDreamer> I'm not sure that the autocommit of the CS is a bug
07:46 < elnino> well, when I create a cs, I have to commit it in order to make posts.  but I can see how it can be argued both ways.
07:46 <+perlDreamer> but there was definitely a bug with trying to delete a CS from a matrix listing that had already been deleted
07:47 < elnino> but I guess (and maybe I didnt' mention this) the matrix wasn't supposed to be open to visitors, and according to the perms, it is not.
07:47 < elnino> so that should not even have happened at all. And because it did happen,
07:47 < elnino> I would have thought it would have "stoppped" the process
07:48 < elnino> by preventing th ecs from being autocommitted, when the site is set to not-auto0commit
07:49 <+perlDreamer> the matrix is really old code, and has always autocommitted
07:49 < elnino> it certainly is a slick asset. that's how I found webgui:  www.cmsmatrix.org
07:50 <+perlDreamer> In 7.6, they got rid of the CS and use the new Comments feature, like the bug board and the wiki
07:50 < elnino> OH!
07:50 < elnino> that's good to know.
07:50 < elnino> we heavily use CS.
07:50 <+perlDreamer> No, just for the Matrix
07:50 < elnino> oh. good. you scared me.
07:51 <+perlDreamer> so, instead of a full CS for each listing, there are just comments
07:54 <+perlDreamer> I've looked at the listing save code, and it looks pretty solid
07:54 <+perlDreamer> are you sure this isn't the case where your marketing people turned off the protection settings?
07:54 < elnino> no, that is where I first looked, the perms are set correctly.
07:55 < elnino> I have a feeling the visiter knew the correct url parameters.
07:55 <+perlDreamer> return $i18n->get('no edit rights') unless (($self->session->form->process("listingId") eq "new" && $self->session->user->isInGroup($self->get("groupToAdd"))) || $self->session->user->userId eq $listing->{maintainerId} || $self->canEdit);
07:55 <+perlDreamer> every one of those is group or userId protected
07:56 <+perlDreamer> if a new listing, then user must be in the groupToAdd group
07:56 < elnino> I didn't check to see if visitor was added to the marketin group. I can do that.. however they don't have permissions to modify users or groups... or they shouldn't....
07:57 <+perlDreamer> and I'll double check that each of those groups actually exists
07:57 <+perlDreamer> to make sure it's as good as it looks
07:58 <+perlDreamer> actually, there's an easy check
07:58 <+perlDreamer> can you still add a Matrix listing on your site as visitor?
08:00 < elnino> I removed the link from the template.  Let me reset it...
08:01 < elnino> well. hmm. 
08:01 < elnino> I made it so it wasn't visible. so it's telling me now what I don't have permission to add anything. So now I have to make it visible.  hold on
08:02 < elnino> and it may have been totalled screwed up with the cs's deleted..   so it's not exactly the same test..
08:02 <+perlDreamer> I just added a Matrix to my dev sit
08:03 <+perlDreamer> and if I try to access the screen directly, it tells me that I don't rights to edit this listing.
08:03 <+perlDreamer> as Visitor
08:04 < elnino> I just don't know how to explain how the visitor was able to create a listing.. =(  I have 7.5.24....
08:05 < elnino> I can't duplicate either.  Could it be that vistor as a password someone knows? I'm trying to think of all options...
08:06 <+perlDreamer> I'll have a quick peek at the 7.5.24 version of the matrix.
08:08 <+perlDreamer> it's the same as in 7.5.38 (and 39)
08:08 <+perlDreamer> and the version tags for the CS'es were owned by Visitor?
08:08 < elnino> yes.
08:09 < elnino> but they are deleted, so I can't double check.. =(
08:09 <+perlDreamer> does your site allow anonymous registration?
08:09 < elnino> that's fine.  I guess I wouldn't spend more time on it.  I don't even know why it was put on the website in the first place. the marketing group a year ago didn't want it up, and the next thing I knew, it was despite the browser incompatiblity issues they found.
08:09 < elnino> hmm. no.. there aren't any users in there that shouldn't be. but Ill double check.
08:10 <+perlDreamer> I was just thinking that is someone could create a user named Visitor...
08:10 <+perlDreamer> and that the Matrix allowed registered users to add matrix listings
08:10 <+perlDreamer> that would explain what you saw
08:10 < elnino> the visitor there has a uid of 1
08:10 < elnino> last updated in september.
08:11 < elnino> this all occured on jan 3,4,5,6
08:11 < elnino> or somethign like that.
08:11 <+perlDreamer> okay
08:11 < elnino> and visitor is not part of any groups.  I just double checked.
08:12 < elnino> ah. don't worry about it. If I come accross it again, I'll yell. 
08:12 <+perlDreamer> I hate to miss a chance to find and fix a good bug
08:12 < elnino> yeah, it sound like a good tasty one.
08:12 <+perlDreamer> okay, I'll report what we talked about, and I was able to fix the delete listing problem
08:12 < elnino> works for me... 
08:13 <+perlDreamer> next time, if you can, just dump the whole db before cleaning up
08:13 <+perlDreamer> that way you can always clone the site for analysis and debug
08:14 < elnino> ok.  If I thouht about it I could have gotten the day before's backup.  but it's been over a week already. =(  or when did I submit the bug?
08:15 < elnino> ad how do I get out of full screen mode??
08:15 <+perlDreamer> full screen mode?
08:15 <+perlDreamer> january 6th
08:15 <+perlDreamer> so maybe not too late?
08:16 < elnino> 14-6=8  too late.. dand
08:16 < elnino> s/dand/dang
08:16 < elnino> just slammed over it couple hours ago.
08:16 <+perlDreamer> oh, yeah
08:16 <+perlDreamer> I'm two hours ahead of you
08:17 < elnino> I'm in zen server, staring at a login screenm not knowing my password, full screen, and can't get out.. how embarrassing.
08:17 <+perlDreamer> hm, try ESC, right click, any of those?
08:18 < elnino> they are all accepted by the linux screen.so I get a bunch of ctrl characters.
08:18 < elnino> hh. Time to go to bed.
08:19 < elnino> I give up. I gues I won't be installing wre. 
08:19 < elnino> tee hee!  ctrl alt del
08:20 < elnino> actually.  ctrl alt
08:26 <+perlDreamer> that worked?
08:26 < elnino> yep.
08:27 < elnino> ctrl-alt goes back and forth. who would have thunk.
08:27 < elnino> I was getting desparate and was going to reboot.
08:27 <+perlDreamer>                      Full Screen                                                                 Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F  Allows you to toggle between full screen and normal mode.
08:29 < elnino> oh, zen server, it's actually  full-screen of the console, which is a only a portion of the zen server app/dialog box. I think what you said would work  if I full screened the dialog box.
08:29 < elnino> hopefully that made sense, hard to explain.
08:30 <+perlDreamer> yeah, I think I got it
08:30  * perlDreamer heads to bed.  Happy hacking, elnino!
08:30 < elnino> thanks!
08:30 < elnino> bye!
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08:34 < CIA-46> WebGUI: patspam * r9219 /branch/survey-rfe/ (922 files in 446 dirs): (log message trimmed)
08:34 < CIA-46> WebGUI: Merge commit 'tags/WebGUI_7.6.8-beta' into survey-rfe
08:34 < CIA-46> WebGUI: * commit 'tags/WebGUI_7.6.8-beta': (96 commits)
08:34 < CIA-46> WebGUI:  Release 7.6.8-beta
08:34 < CIA-46> WebGUI:  preparing for 7.6.8 release
08:34 < CIA-46> WebGUI:  convert to new storage format
08:34 < CIA-46> WebGUI:  fixing photo comment test
08:34 < CIA-46> WebGUI: patspam * r9220 /branch/survey-rfe/t/Asset/Wobject/Survey/ResponseJSON.t: Added gotoExpression tests (from flux branch)
08:34 < CIA-46> WebGUI: patspam * r9221 /branch/survey-rfe/www/extras/wobject/Survey/ (administersurvey.js surveyedit.css): More code from flux branch
08:34 < CIA-46> WebGUI: patspam * r9222 /branch/survey-rfe/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey/ResponseJSON.pm: More minor edits from flux branch
08:34 < CIA-46> WebGUI: colin * r9223 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Matrix.pm): 
08:34 < CIA-46> WebGUI: Fix a problem where a matrix listing could not be purged if the CS it contained could not
08:34 < CIA-46> WebGUI: be deleted.
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15:47 < wgGuest03> hi to all, today i explore the world of webgui...i use drupla, joomla adn umbraco and other cms but i don't know perl cms
15:47 < wgGuest03> is difficult?
15:47 < wgGuest03> how do i costumize template?
15:48 < wgGuest03> i figure otu that i have to avoid for the moment the construction of my own template
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16:47 <+BartJol> hi c_thomas
16:47 <+BartJol> any questions?
16:48 < c_thomas> I'm just trying to learn how to use this irc thing
16:48 <+BartJol> ah
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16:51 < deafferret> success!
16:53 <+BartJol> thanks
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17:11 < ascii> sup!
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18:30 <+BartJol> pb guys, what's the max upload for the webgui.org bazaar?
18:40 <+BartJol> perlmonkey2: do you know the max upload size of webgui.org?
18:41 <@perlmonkey2> BartJol: ah, specificially at webgui.org.  No idea.
18:43 <@preaction> BartJol: one sec
18:43 <+BartJol> I'll wait
18:44 <@preaction> 100mb, the windows WRE is something like 160MB
18:44 <+BartJol> yes
18:44 <+BartJol> you answer that pots, or will I do that?
18:45 <+BartJol> jt already did
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18:57 < ckotil> i had to crank my max upload to around a gig. people wanted to start uploading cd images to our file repo, which webgui handles.
18:58 < ckotil> and there was talk about dvd images. but i put my foot down on that.
19:00 <+BartJol> ckotil: sounds like a smart move
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19:05 < ckotil> thankfully we only have a single image on their now. windows XP pro corporate edition.
19:05 < ckotil> but when it gets tagged for version control multiple copies are created.
19:06 < ckotil> i have been removing the old versions manually to reduce the size of my webgui installation. 
19:06 <+BartJol> that can grow quite some
19:06 < ckotil> oh i lie, we have a few images, but they are small.
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19:06 < ckotil> my source installation is 7.1 gb gzip'd
19:07 < ckotil> db is 120MB
19:08 <+BartJol> mmm, you don't wanna transfer that size of files via http
19:09 < ckotil> no joke.
19:09 < ckotil> i have an rsync cronjob to a hot backup server that also does mysql replication.
19:09 <+BartJol> I'm quite serious actually
19:09 < ckotil> its an efficient rsync.
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19:16 < fxk> hello, I am curious what changes were made to 7.5.38 (using Debian's package) 
19:17 < fxk> specifically the "children" in an asset tree are not rendered
19:17 < fxk> in http:www.example.com/file?op=assetManager;method=manage
19:17 <+BartJol> well, the changes are in http://www.webgui.org/getwebgui/advisories/webgui-7_5_38-stable-released#6-8PSMarTGHYuDrHhSPtrw
19:18 <+BartJol> so you mean that you don't see the assets under an asset in the manager?
19:18 <+BartJol> that's probably a config error
19:18 < fxk> I had this error before 
19:18 <+BartJol> well what you must do
19:18 < fxk> and I modded the webgui.conf (from the debian package)
19:18 < fxk> and they rendered....
19:19 <+BartJol> yeah, the operations are in the wrong order
19:19 < fxk> after the update two days ago it ceased
19:19 <+BartJol> I had the same problem
19:19 < fxk> ah
19:19 <+perlDreamer> that problem should be reported to the debian package maintainer
19:19 <+perlDreamer> there's not much we core devs can do to prevent people from mucking with the config file
19:20 <+BartJol> but is that really the debian package? I thought it was due to the upgrade script
19:20 <+BartJol> otherwise I'll have to bash Koen
19:21 <+BartJol> I thought only the wre was packaged for OS's
19:23 <+BartJol> fxk: it didn't fix itself right?
19:23 <+BartJol> that would be strange with such an error
19:23 < fxk> thing Debian never mucks around with /etc
19:24 < fxk> I am looking for the "correct order" of content handlers
19:24 < fxk> to test
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19:24 <+BartJol> WebGUI.conf.original
19:25 <+BartJol> in WebGUI/etc
19:25 <+perlDreamer> if that's not in Debian, you can get a copy of it here:
19:25 <+perlDreamer> https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/view/branch/WebGUI_7.5/etc/WebGUI.conf.original
19:25 <+BartJol> I haven't had problems that the original conf file wasn't there
19:26 <+perlDreamer> you've used the Debian package?
19:27 <+BartJol> mmm, maybe should doublecheck that\
19:27 <+perlDreamer> fxk, I've had what sounds like a similar problem intermittently.
19:28 <+perlDreamer> I get an Asset Manager screen, with no children displayed
19:28 < fxk> that is the order in the Debian Package
19:28 <+perlDreamer> it's usually do to a problem getting AJAX data from the server quickly
19:30 < fxk> my fix before was to add WebGUI::Content::AssetManager in the utilityAssets
19:30 <+BartJol> "contentHandlers" : [
19:30 <+BartJol>     "WebGUI::Content::Prefetch",
19:30 <+BartJol>     "WebGUI::Content::Maintenance",
19:30 <+BartJol>     "WebGUI::Content::Referral",
19:30 <+BartJol>     "WebGUI::Content::AssetManager",
19:30 <+BartJol>     "WebGUI::Content::AssetDiscovery",
19:30 <+BartJol>     "WebGUI::Content::AjaxI18N",
19:30 <+BartJol>     "WebGUI::Content::Account",
19:30 <+BartJol>     "WebGUI::Content::Operation",
19:30 <+BartJol>     "WebGUI::Content::Setup",
19:30 <+BartJol>     "WebGUI::Content::Shop",
19:30 <+BartJol>     "WebGUI::Content::SiteIndex",
19:30 <+BartJol>     "WebGUI::Content::Asset",
19:30 <+BartJol>     "WebGUI::Content::NotFound"
19:30 <+BartJol> this is my order and it works
19:30 <+perlDreamer> usually better to paste that, BartJol.
19:31 <+perlDreamer> that way people can copy and paste
19:31 <+BartJol> ok, wait a minute
19:31 <+BartJol> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m465c3a8a
19:32 <+BartJol> but this way, it looks like I can type really fast
19:34 <+BartJol> and don't forget to restart modperl ;)
19:35 <+BartJol> arg, I must admit, that is 7.6.8
19:37 <+BartJol> sorry fxk
19:38 <+perlDreamer> fxk, what exactly do you see when you don't see children?  Are there any webgui.log error messages?
19:38 <+perlDreamer> is it consistently not displayed, or random
19:39 < fxk> it is consistently not displaying since the update two days ago
19:39 <+BartJol> I updated it in the pastebin
19:40 <+perlDreamer> okay, next step is to check the webgui.log file next for errors
19:40 <+perlDreamer> consistent bugs are easier to fix
19:41 <+BartJol> but I've gotta get some food, success
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19:43 <+perlDreamer> fxk, I created a WebGUI demo site, and the asset manager is working there.
19:43 <+perlDreamer> you can see it if you wish
19:43 <+perlDreamer> http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1231954298_81/home?op=assetManager
19:43 <+perlDreamer> standard admin login and password
19:44 < fxk> symbolic link not allowed or link target not accessible
19:44 < fxk> in error logs
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19:45 < fxk> in /usr/share/webgui/extras/yui/build
19:45 <+perlDreamer> can you pastebin that for me?  http://webgui.pastebin.com
19:47 < fxk> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m33ece5a8
19:48 <+perlDreamer> does that link exist on your system?
19:49 <+perlDreamer> readable by web server, apache config configured for links, etc.?
19:50 < fxk> it exists.... but is a symbolic link to noplace
19:50 <+perlDreamer> well, that's your problem then
19:51 < fxk> your comments did shed light
19:51 < CIA-35> WebGUI: colin * r9224 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Keyword.pm: Update POD about getKeywordsForAsset.
19:51 < CIA-35> WebGUI: colin * r9225 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Mirror the indent loop calculation to the rel_depth in the Navigation.
19:51 < CIA-35> WebGUI: colin * r9226 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Backport Navigation reldepth fix.
19:51 <+perlDreamer> so, it seems like we need to do 2 things
19:51 <+perlDreamer> 1) find out if that file exists so you can fix your site
19:51 <+perlDreamer> 2) report it to the debian package maintainer
19:51 <+perlDreamer> do you have locate installed on your system?
19:53 < fxk> I do now
19:53 <+perlDreamer> okay :)
19:53 <+perlDreamer> run updatedb
19:54 <+perlDreamer> then do: locate assetManager.js
19:54 <+perlDreamer> you'll be able to find the real path that the symbolic needs from that
19:54 <+perlDreamer> I don't know how to report it to the debian package maintainer, but he does show up in channel every so often.
19:55 <+perlDreamer> there must be a contact email or something in the .deb?
19:55 < fxk> I found his e-mail address and will shoot him a note
19:55 <+perlDreamer> cool
19:55 <+perlDreamer> Ernesto is a nice guy
19:55 < fxk> pretty sure he will want to know
19:55 < fxk> about this
19:56 <+perlDreamer> oh yeah
19:56 <+perlDreamer> and many other WebGUI Debian package users, too
20:10  * perlDreamer heads to other office #1
20:10 <+perlDreamer> be back in 20 or so
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20:52 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, any releases this week?
20:52  * perlDreamer is scared of causing more muckery
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20:53 <@Haarg> nope
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21:20  * perlDreamer goes running, then do the dentist
21:20 <+perlDreamer> be back much later this afternoon
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22:15 < elnino> hi.  just wondering if there is a manual way to do the ./wreconsole.pl step when installing wre.
22:52 < elnino> nevermind
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01:54 < CIA-19> WebGUI: arjan * r9227 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt www/extras/ukplayer/slideShow.swf): fixed #9264: new slideShow.swf uploaded in extras/ukplayer (United Knowledge/Arjan Widlak)
01:54 < CIA-19> WebGUI: colin * r9228 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 
01:54 < CIA-19> WebGUI: Fix a bug where default PayDrivers have two labels, one in the db, and one
01:54 < CIA-19> WebGUI: in the JSON. The one in the db is not used anywhere in the system. Remove
01:54 < CIA-19> WebGUI: it, and upgrade existing drivers to place their labels into the JSON. Updated
01:54 < CIA-19> WebGUI: tests as well.
01:55 < daviddelikat> perlDreamer perlmonkey2: I'm back!
01:55 <+perlDreamer> how is the 7.5 WRE setup coming?
01:55 < daviddelikat> I'm still trying to get this 7.5 backport thing going
01:56 < daviddelikat> hard to tell
01:57 < daviddelikat> I got my vm reverted, pm2 said he dup'd the whole data directory, so I was going to go all the way and I need to know what versipon of wre to put in the 7.5 copy
01:57 < daviddelikat> can i just copy wre from my beta data dir?
01:57 < daviddelikat> or do i need to checkout a different version?
01:58 <+perlDreamer> I think you can use the same WRE
01:58 <+perlDreamer> version
01:58 < daviddelikat> do i need to add a domain directory or is that created by the addsite script?
02:00 <+perlDreamer> you probably need to setup a basic one
02:00 <+perlDreamer> I don't know if the WRE will make that for you or not
02:00 <+perlDreamer> there's an easy way to find out :)
02:01 < daviddelikat> yeah thats what im working on  ... 
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02:14 < daviddelikat> perlDreamer: i've got the 7.5 code in place but something seems to be missing
02:14 <+perlDreamer> what's happening?
02:14 < daviddelikat> when I try the addsite it tells me that mysql is down
02:15 < daviddelikat> i can start mysql with the beta data dir but not with the 7.5 dir
02:15 <+perlDreamer> this is inside of PB's VM, right?
02:15 < daviddelikat> yes
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02:23 <+perlDreamer> any error messages or log file messages that might help narrow it down?
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02:24 < daviddelikat> I'm trying to remember where mysql logs are
02:24 <+perlDreamer> /data/wre/var/logs
02:24 < daviddelikat> thanks
02:25 <+perlDreamer> I know a _little_ about the WRE, but not always enough to be helpful.
02:25 < daviddelikat> mysql logs are not there
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02:28 <+perlDreamer> can you find the my.cnf file in the VM?  It will tell where it's logging to
02:29 < daviddelikat> would that be in wre?
02:29 <+perlDreamer> /data/wre/etc/my.cnf
02:29 <+perlDreamer> and it may not be logging
02:31 <+perlDreamer> I wonder if perlmonkey2 meant that he duplicated /data, or just the www directory for the 7.5 site?
02:31 < daviddelikat> no he said he had fo copies of the data directory(and he named them... all started with 'data')
02:33 <+perlDreamer> when you type perl wreservice.pl --start mysql it doesn't start?
02:33 < daviddelikat> correct
02:34 <+perlDreamer> and you sourced the setupenvironment.sh script?
02:35 < daviddelikat> pretty sure it's automatic, wreservice wouldn't run so easily if i hadn't
02:35 <+perlDreamer> true
02:36 <+perlDreamer> how about looking inside there, and finding the commands that it handles and doing them manually on the command line to see what's going on?
02:36 < daviddelikat> sounds good. I'm not having any luck with the log file
02:47 < CIA-19> WebGUI: colin * r9229 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Pay.pm t/Shop/Pay.t): Also update Shop/Pay.pm for the removal of the extra label.
02:47 < CIA-19> WebGUI: colin * r9230 /WebGUI/ (6 files in 4 dirs): 
02:47 < CIA-19> WebGUI: Forward port the PayDriver bug fixes from 7.5 branch. Labels are always
02:47 < CIA-19> WebGUI: taken consistently from the JSON blob, and not a mixture of the two.
02:51 < daviddelikat> here is the output from the startup script
02:51 < daviddelikat> Manager of pid-file quit without updating file.
02:51 < daviddelikat> is it likely ther is a pidfile that needs to be deleted?
02:51 < daviddelikat> perlDreamer:
02:51 <+perlDreamer> Googling for that
02:52 < daviddelikat> me2
02:55 <+perlDreamer> try touching /var/run/mysqld.pid
02:56 < daviddelikat> nope
02:56 <+perlDreamer> more digging
02:56 <+perlDreamer> is there anything interesting in /data/wre/var/mysqldata?
02:57 <+perlDreamer> like a .pid file?
03:00 < daviddelikat> no pid file, but there is an error log.  looks like mysqld might be running.
03:01 < daviddelikat> http://webgui.pastebin.com/d77711f7e
03:03 <+perlDreamer> what does ps say?
03:03 < daviddelikat> well its hard to read
03:03 <+perlDreamer> ps -ef | grep mysql
03:04 < daviddelikat> i did that...
03:04 <+perlDreamer> sorry
03:05 < daviddelikat> sok, theres lots of stuff with 'mysql' in it but they look to me like scripts, theres no 'mysqld' which is what i'm mused to seeing, 'course that means nothing really
03:06 < daviddelikat> so I have my beta version linked, I stopped everything
03:06 < daviddelikat> i should be able to like the other directory and start everything, yes?
03:06 <+perlDreamer> sounds good to me
03:07 < daviddelikat> I'm going to change wre to a link because this is not working
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03:09 < daviddelikat> go figure, it works...
03:09 < daviddelikat> now for a new site
03:11 < daviddelikat> oye
03:11 < daviddelikat> no admin bar
03:12 < daviddelikat> im going to break for dinner
03:12 <+perlDreamer> me, too
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03:47 < daviddelikat> perlmonkey2: sorry to drag you into this, but it just is not working
03:47 < daviddelikat> i am still trying to get a 7.5 copy of WebGUI running
03:52 < daviddelikat> I currently can't start modproxy
03:52 < daviddelikat> heres the log
03:52 < daviddelikat> http://webgui.pastebin.com/d460939f9
03:53 < patspam> daviddelikat: looks like something is already bound to port 80
03:54 < daviddelikat> any idea what to look for?
03:54 < patspam> what OS are you running?
03:54 < daviddelikat> linux -- vm download from the WebGUI site upgraded for development.
03:54 < patspam> start with: pgrep httpd
03:55 < daviddelikat> I've had everything up and running here, but I need to backport a fix so I need to have 7.5 online for testing
03:55 < daviddelikat> and it just is not cooperating
03:56 < patspam> you probably just need to forcefully close the existing modproxy process and then start it again
03:56 < patspam> try also: ps aux | grep http
03:56 < patspam> rebooting would probably solve it too
03:57 < daviddelikat> yeah, theres a couple dozen modproxy's running are they stalled? should I kill them?
03:58 < patspam> you're using the wre yeah?
03:58 < patspam> try using wreservice.pl to stop them first
03:58 < daviddelikat> yes,  wreservice.pl --stop modproxy
03:58 < daviddelikat> Stop mod_proxy:       OK -- and there still running
03:59 < patspam> do the same for modperl
03:59 < patspam> and then failing that, I'd just kill them
03:59 < patspam> pkill httpd
03:59 < patspam> or more rudely: pkill -9 httpd
04:02 < daviddelikat> when all else fails...
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04:30 < daviddelikat> yay! its working!
04:37 <@perlmonkey2> daviddelikat: still need any help?
04:38 < daviddelikat> no, I think I have it, I'm going to do some real work for a while then i'll test it and then I'll post it to the wiki
04:39 < daviddelikat> 8 steps to a new site with a different version
05:37 < CIA-19> WebGUI: daviddelikat * r9231 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm): 
05:37 < CIA-19> WebGUI: backported bug 9428; Asset::get now includes
05:37 < CIA-19> WebGUI: keywords when no property is named
05:53 < elnino> that's interesting... when using wre, do you use the same uploads location across all sites? I have a manual install, and it looks like I either choose to keep them separate, or that's how it happened.
05:57 < SDuensin> elnino - Extras is the same.  The sites all keep their uploaded stuff in their own folders.
05:58 < elnino> when I look at /data/webgui/www/uploads I only see the two character directory names, whereas on my manual install, I have multiple uploads directorys under a parent directory for the domain.
05:59 < elnino> I'm thinkin *I* did that during my manual installl..
05:59 < SDuensin> Yea, that's my guess.
06:00 < elnino> I have in my manual install - /data/domains/domainname.com/ and then either uploads and extras if it's a webgui site, and public if it's an apache site.
06:00 < elnino> So now that I'm going to wre, where would I put my static sites files?
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06:05 < daviddelikat> perlmonkey2: here is the steps I came up with to switch sites/versions: http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/multi-version-multi-site
06:07 <@perlmonkey2> daviddelikat: sweet, very nice
06:07 < elnino> never mind, I was looking at the wrong directories (I think)
06:08 < estiven> mm, excelent
06:12 < daviddelikat> perlmonkey2: let me know if you try it...
06:12 <@perlmonkey2> daviddelikat: I didn't see the script
06:12 <@perlmonkey2> daviddelikat: but I don't see why it wouldn't work.
06:13 < daviddelikat> you have to go to the edit tab to see the script.  how are file attachements supposed to work?
06:13 < daviddelikat> i see they have been removed from the beta verion
06:13 < daviddelikat> versiob
06:13 < daviddelikat> version
06:14  * daviddelikat tired
06:15 < patspam> perlmonkey2: i just nailed a Survey js memory leak
06:21 <@perlmonkey2> patspam: sweet.  What was it?
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07:07 < elnino> hi.  I just attempted to move a manual instll of webgui to wre. I'm unable to restart mod_perl because in the logs, it's trying to load my custom macros, but I didn't add them to my conf file yet. Does wre try to load them any because they are in the WebGUI etc directory?
07:07 < elnino> that what it sure looks like.
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11:27 < CIA-19> WebGUI: patspam * r9232 /branch/survey-rfe/www/extras/wobject/Survey/ (editsurvey.js editsurvey/object.js): 
11:27 < CIA-19> WebGUI: Fixed a few js memory leaks in EditSurvey page (SimpleEditor appears to
11:27 < CIA-19> WebGUI: have a memory leak of its own which we either need to get fixed or
11:27 < CIA-19> WebGUI: work-around).
11:27 < CIA-19> WebGUI: patspam * r9233 /branch/survey-rfe/www/extras/wobject/Survey/editsurvey.js: Removed unused function from editsurvey.js
12:18 <+BartJol> fxk: did you fix your problem with the asset manager yesterday?
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15:38 < CIA-19> WebGUI: arjan * r9234 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt www/extras/ukplayer/slideShow.swf): fixed #9264: new slideShow.swf uploaded in extras/ukplayer (United Knowledge/Arjan Widlak)
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16:40 < CIA-19> WebGUI: yung * r9235 /branch/survey-rfe/ (5 files in 4 dirs): rfe 9200: Survey Text/TextArea handling
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16:46 < SquOnk> Hi everyone. Happy new year.
16:46 <+BartJol> hi!
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17:16 < wgGuest71> hello, i wanna install and try out webGUI
17:16 < wgGuest71> but i'm running windows 2003 server w/ apache
17:16 < wgGuest71> is that possible?  i couldn't figure out which package to download
17:17 <@preaction> wgGuest71: you can download the windows WRE, or the vmware appliance. or you can try to install from source
17:17 < wgGuest71> i can't find the windows WRE
17:20 < wgGuest71> i want to try to avoid using vmware or installing from source, as they look hard to do (is it?)
17:20 <@preaction> wgGuest71: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=51417&package_id=148913 <- WRE 0.8.3 has a windows version, but that is the last version
17:21 < wgGuest71> windows XP version... would that work on windows 2003 server running apache?
17:21 < wgGuest71> is 8.5 much improved over 8.3?
17:22 <@preaction> there are bugfixes and other such, but mostly bugfixes
17:23 < wgGuest71> so xp version will work w/ server 2003 running apache?
17:26 <@preaction> wgGuest71: i cant say yes or no, try it perhaps?
17:26 < wgGuest71> ok thanks
17:32 < wgGuest71> if i wanted to run it on vmware... how do i do that?  i've no experience with that.  thanks
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18:02 < topsub> wre .8.5 + ubuntu jeos play nice together
18:03 < AMH_bob> sweet
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18:11 < CIA-19> WebGUI: yung * r9236 /branch/survey-rfe/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Rfe 9201: Make Survey textAreas yui resizable
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18:33 <+perlDreamer> does anyone know who henryykt is on webgui.org?
18:33 <+perlDreamer> He submitted a patch to fix a bug, and I'd like to credit him in the changelog
18:33 <+perlDreamer> his profile isn't public, though
18:34 < danny_mk> hello everyone, is there a macro that attaches a yui popup calendar to an input text field?
18:34 <+perlDreamer> no, but you can use Form/Date or Form/DateTime
18:34 <+perlDreamer> if you're writing code from scratch
18:34 <+perlDreamer> the profile system would let you choose that field from its list of fields
18:35 < danny_mk> I have one written that I use on some of my sites but did not want to put it in the bazaar if we already had this functionality in WebGUI
18:39 <+perlDreamer> sounds cool to me.  I'd upload it.
18:42 < danny_mk> OK
18:45 < CIA-19> WebGUI: colin * r9237 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Shelf.pm): Fix Shelf, displays self instead of children shelves.
18:45 < CIA-19> WebGUI: colin * r9238 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Shelf.pm): Forward port Shelf view fix. Was not displaying child shelves, only self.
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19:28 <@bopbop> perlDreamer: I searched for that user account, but no results returned
19:29 <+perlDreamer> It's this guy:
19:29 <+perlDreamer> http://www.webgui.org/etcetera/sql-questoion-user-login-frequency/1?op=viewProfile;uid=9Rn18Yu9db2gcdLbhBcdCg
19:29 <+perlDreamer> I think it might be AMH_Henry
19:30 <+perlDreamer> but I left him a note and let him know that I wanted to credit him for the bug fix
19:30 <+perlDreamer> (in the bug, since his account is private)
19:30 <+perlDreamer> thanks for searching, bopop
19:41 < SquOnk> So, when will the next WUC be held?
19:41 <+perlDreamer> In September
19:41 <+perlDreamer> I believe the 12th-15th
19:41 < SquOnk> perlDreamer: Hah.
19:41 <+perlDreamer> SquOnk, have you been contacted about the Debian package bug?
19:41 < SquOnk> perlDreamer: I was contacted yesterday about a broken symlink.
19:41 <+perlDreamer> excellent
19:42 < SquOnk> perlDreamer: Issued a patched 7.5.38 last night.
19:42 < SquOnk> perlDreamer: (For Sid and Lenny :-)
19:42 <+perlDreamer> The user sounded like he was going to do it, I just wanted to make sure you got all the info
19:42  * SquOnk wonder if the NFL schedule is out, and if there's a Bears-Packers game in Green Bay those days
19:42 < SquOnk> Heh
19:43 < SquOnk> I went to Chicago once, and got to see a thriller Cubs-Cardinals (Let's go Cubs!)
19:43 < SquOnk> I went to Boston once, and got to see a Bruins-Sabres
19:43 < SquOnk> I went to LA once, and got to see a Dodgers-Giants
19:43 <+perlDreamer> I'm seeing a trend here
19:44 < SquOnk> ...so if I go close to Green Bay, I must see a Bears-Packers game...
19:44 <+perlDreamer> well, Madison is home to the University of Wisconsin, so maybe you need to see a college football game?
19:44 < SquOnk> perlDreamer: That would be good too...
19:44 < SquOnk> perlDreamer: ...but I'm also a Bears fan, so bear with me (pun intended)
19:45  * perlDreamer has great patience for the sports-minded
19:45 <+perlDreamer> just don't spew beer on me
19:46 < SquOnk> I don't throw beer around...
19:46 < SquOnk> ...that's one of the reasons I don't go to stadiums _here_
19:46 <+perlDreamer> spew usually means to be sprayed from the mouth
19:47 < SquOnk> perlDreamer: In my case, once beer gets in my mouth, it's going down.
19:47 < SquOnk> I was watching a baseball game last night, while hacking...
19:47 <+perlDreamer> excellent. (on both notes :)
19:47 < SquOnk> ...is playoff season here, but my team is out, so I was only routing for our rivals to lose miserably
19:47 < SquOnk> ...the game ended with a standoff two-out homer.
19:48 < SquOnk> It actually rained beer
19:48 < SquOnk> Disgusting
19:48 < SquOnk> Everyone hates Leones del Caracas (Caracas' Lions, literally), and they lost in a western province that has a special hate for them...
19:49 < SquOnk> ...they were throwing beer up, down, right, left... and the players had to wait to get into the dugout until the fans ran out of beer to throw at them
19:49 <+perlDreamer> wow
19:49 <+perlDreamer> and I thought the soccer fans were crazy
19:49 < SquOnk> You guess why beer is served in plastic glases here :-)
19:50 < SquOnk> I used to got to the stadium regularly to watch Navegantes-Leones (it's our version of Red Sox-Yankees)
19:50 < SquOnk> ...but fans got real bad at beer and food throwing I chose not to go anymore.
19:51 <@bopbop> Squonk: WUC is Sept. 9-11; NFL schedule doesn't come out until April, I don't think
19:51 <@bopbop> Badger games, in Madison, are definitely a good time
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19:53 <+perlDreamer> September 12, they're playing Fresno
19:54 <+perlDreamer> at home
19:55 < SquOnk> Sounds good
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20:13 < CIA-19> WebGUI: colin * r9239 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/Workflow.pm: Fix a typo typo in the Operation/Workflow POD.
20:15  * perlDreamer goes to the gym
20:56  * deafferret gets fatter
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21:46  * Mech4221 crawls out from under his rock
21:47 < Mech4221> hope everyone had a good holidays...
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22:35 < CIA-19> WebGUI: doug * r9240 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed #4137: Calendar Search page has extra head tags in body
22:35 < CIA-19> WebGUI: doug * r9241 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): merged 9240
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23:00 < diakopter> perlDreamer: what's a typo typo
23:05 < CIA-19> WebGUI: doug * r9242 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.conf: disabled ETags in new WRE installs
23:19 <+perlDreamer> diakopter, it's when someone repeats the same word twice, like Display display
23:23 < diakopter> perlDreamer: oh, cool
23:23 < diakopter> glad I asked :)
23:34 < CIA-19> WebGUI: graham * r9243 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: fix and clean up modproxy template
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01:13 <+perlDreamer> deafferret, no worries.  I went out for pizza after the gym, so you're off the hook.
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01:18 < deafferret> perlDreamer: ya, but then I ate that 5 gallon drum of lard, so you're up again
01:19 <+perlDreamer> oy, back to the gym
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01:29 <+perlDreamer> In come the Australians!
01:30 < patspam> *waves*
01:30 <+perlDreamer> Good morning, guys
01:33 < patspam> morning perlDreamer
01:33 <+perlDreamer> It's a good day to be at home, and not flying to Seattle from New York.
01:34 < patspam> you cancelled a trip?
01:34 <+perlDreamer> No, an airplane went down in the Hudson River in New York.
01:34 <+perlDreamer> Everyone survived, but still, what a ride.
01:35 < patspam> oh crap
01:35 <+perlDreamer> They hit a bird, and it took out two engines
01:35 < patspam> no kidding
01:35 <+perlDreamer> Seriously, man
01:35 < patspam> poor bird!
01:35 <+perlDreamer> Yeah, and I thought the passengers had it bad.
01:36 < patspam> i spent yesterday finding js memory leaks, so i can sympathise with the bird
01:36 <+perlDreamer> I saw all those commits
01:37 <+perlDreamer> you mentioned that the Editor itself leaks?
01:37 < patspam> yeah, i have a script that makes it leak 5Mb/sec, but waiting to get confirmation from Dave Glass
01:41 <+perlDreamer> Should the other fixes that you committed to survey_rfe be added to core, as well?
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01:43 < patspam> definitely, although I was just going to do it all at once when the feature-freeze is lifted because the js files have been refactored considerably
01:43 <+perlDreamer> I see
01:58 <@perlmonkey2> okay
01:59 <@perlmonkey2> draggable is done except for keyboard commands, and nobody used though, right?
01:59 <+Radix-wrk> morning
02:00 <+Radix-wrk> just saw photos of that plane in the hudson
02:00 <+Radix-wrk> http://twitpic.com/135xa
02:00 < deafferret> 12 in hospital. everyone ok
02:01 <@perlmonkey2> ah, airplanes float?
02:01 <@perlmonkey2> and how did it get into the water so slowly that it didnt' fly apart?
02:01 < deafferret> water shallow there
02:01 <@perlmonkey2> well that's good for misplaced airplanes :P
02:02 <@perlmonkey2> But really, this is like some sort of miracle.  Airplanes usually become shredded aluminum shortly after contact with water.  Those people are some of the luckiest ever.
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02:03 < deafferret> oh crap. I was wrong http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2009/01/15/us/20090115-PLANECRASH_4.html
02:03 < deafferret> it sank eventually. how'd it float?
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02:05 <+perlDreamer> I was thinking the baggage compartment must be semi-water tight.
02:05 <+perlDreamer> but it was full of fuel, and the passenger compartment doors were open
02:05 <@perlmonkey2> Wow, that plane was actually in the air flying, and then the pilot managed to land it slow enough that it didn't come apart in the water.  He obviously has the skills to go straight to space shuttle pilot.
02:06 <+perlDreamer> so there's really no other air pocket large enough to make the plane buoyant enough to float that long
02:07 < deafferret>  floated for two or three minutes before it started to sink as it drifted downstream, its nose poking up. .It didn.t break up at all,. Mr. Duckworth said. .Everything you could see looked perfectly intact, like you could take it out of the water and fly it.
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02:07 < deafferret> amazing
02:13 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: well, most flights don't fill up the fuel tanks completely.  So I would assume they would be have air as the difference.
02:13 <@perlmonkey2> then the baggage compartment and any nooks and crannies.
02:13 <+perlDreamer> true
02:13 <@perlmonkey2> I just can't get over that it touched down in water and didn't just come apart.
02:13 <+perlDreamer> I thought it floated longer than that
02:14 < deafferret> ya, I would have thought the damn thing would have disintegrated
02:14 <@perlmonkey2> There's that footage on and Indonesian boeing trying to land in the sea and it basically just explodes.
02:14 <+perlDreamer> funny how quickly infinite loops heat up your laptop
02:15 <@perlmonkey2> so...does the drag and drop need to include the hot keys?  Do they even work?
02:15 <+perlDreamer> which drag and drop?
02:15 <@perlmonkey2> javascript draggable for Layout
02:15 <@perlmonkey2> I've rewritten it, but haven't added back int eh keys
02:16 <@perlmonkey2> and really really dont' want to do it.  Painful enough wrapping the old stuff around YUI :D  Plus I'm probably just lazy.
02:25 < daviddelikat> perlmonkey2: when I added the changelog entry for the bug i just fixed i put it after the line that says 7.5.39 -- was that the wrong place to put it?
02:25 <@perlmonkey2> daviddelikat: that's where it goes
02:25 < daviddelikat> ok, next question
02:25 <@perlmonkey2> should look just like the entries in 7.5.38
02:25 <@perlmonkey2> below it
02:26 < daviddelikat> I'm looking at the bug fix I just finished 'sno' and 'elnino' posted some questions about it
02:26 < daviddelikat> one was whether it had been put into the CORE;  that would be the 7.5 version; yes?
02:26 <+perlDreamer> which bug?
02:27 < daviddelikat> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/9428
02:27 <@perlmonkey2> daviddelikat: well core can refer to 7.5 or 7.6, but that means in the build of WebGUI.
02:27 <@perlmonkey2> like, is part of the main package.
02:28 <+perlDreamer> steveo_aa may have been testing on 7.5
02:28 <+perlDreamer> has the bug been patched and tested in both branches?
02:28 < daviddelikat> I have tested both 7.5 and 7.6
02:29 <+perlDreamer> hm
02:29 < daviddelikat> I guess the answer is that right now it is not in CORE but will be soon?
02:29 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: the easter egg is what combination of [38,40,37,39,66,65] summed adds up to 38403840373937396665
02:29 <+perlDreamer> oh no, 7.6 is core
02:30 <+perlDreamer> 7.5 is core
02:30 <@perlmonkey2> daviddelikat: if you've done svn ci to either the main 7.5 or 7.6 branch, I'd say that is in core.
02:31 < daviddelikat> so I really need to get in touch with them and see what happened that it did not work for them.
02:31 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: I've got a trace at the top of the key event in draggable and nothign.  
02:31 <@perlmonkey2> anyone have a different browser they'd test this for me on?
02:31 < daviddelikat> what browser do you have?
02:32 < daviddelikat> im firefox on xp ( of course ie as well... )
02:32 < daviddelikat> do you have a link?
02:35 <+perlDreamer> it's fairly easy to write code, but writing the code to install it everywhere is a pain
02:39 < daviddelikat> what is it your testing?
02:40 <@perlmonkey2> okay, I surrender for the evening.
02:48 <+perlDreamer> with a few lines of hackery, you can use HTMLForm's dynamic form builder with Crud
02:50 < CIA-19> WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r9244 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Updated draggable.js to wrap the YUI
02:50 < CIA-19> WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r9245 /WebGUI/www/extras/draggable.js: whups, left in console.logs
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05:04 < daviddelikat> is there any way to force a piece of WebGUI cache to expire?
05:04 < daviddelikat> can i just delete it?
05:08 < estiven> yes
05:08 < estiven> you can delete it in the /tmp/
05:09 < daviddelikat> thanks
05:10 < estiven> the path is /tmp/WebGUICache
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05:38 < daviddelikat> im working on http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/9455
05:38 < daviddelikat> if the description in an RSS feed is blank (or any other field i'd guess)
05:39 < daviddelikat> XML::FeedPP returns an empty array rather than an empty string
05:39 < daviddelikat> this causes the filter function to get a single parameter which is the 'type' of filtering it
05:40 < daviddelikat> is supposed to do.
05:40 < daviddelikat> the simple solution is to wrap the first parameter in scalar(...) to change the context
05:40 < daviddelikat> makes it look messy if they all need it
05:40 < daviddelikat> any comments?
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06:26 <+perlDreamer> from where?
06:26 <@perlmonkey2> amazon
06:26 <+perlDreamer> that is awesome!
06:26 <+perlDreamer> totally pixellated
06:26 <+perlDreamer> what power is this?
06:26 <@perlmonkey2> yeah, I have shots of my pillow seeing if there are bed bugs, I have a movie of a sweat gland on my wrist working, being totally disgusting.
06:26 <@perlmonkey2> that is 400x
06:27 <+perlDreamer> for $20?
06:27 <@perlmonkey2> it is a gun with an LCD on it, and does 100-200-400
06:27 <@perlmonkey2> the lcd isn't bad
06:27 <@perlmonkey2> also came with a usb 16mb fob.
06:27 <@perlmonkey2> all for $20.
06:27 <@perlmonkey2> totally nuts
06:27 <@perlmonkey2> jpegs and avi's.
06:28 <@perlmonkey2> I should or ordered 5 of them, but I didn't think it would be worth even $20.  Little did I know I'd pay a heck of a lot more for this.
06:29 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: here's my pillow: http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pic002vg3.jpg
06:30 <+perlDreamer> looks clear to me, no wigglies
06:31 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: since I ordered it, amazon marked it up to $26.  Still a great buy :P
06:31 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: EyeClops BioniCam at amazon if you think you or your kids my have fun with it.
06:32 <+perlDreamer> oh, yeah
06:32 <+perlDreamer> I've heard of that
06:32 <+perlDreamer> does it work with Linux?
06:32 <@perlmonkey2> it doesn't need anything external
06:32 <@perlmonkey2> have an av output, but also has a built in lcd and saves to a usb fob.
06:32 <@perlmonkey2> which is just fat and readable by linux.
06:33 <@perlmonkey2> I've played the movie avi's in linux without issue.
06:33 <+perlDreamer> I see
06:33 <+perlDreamer> nice
06:33 <+perlDreamer> I thought there was a version where it had to connect to windows
06:33 <+perlDreamer> but obviously I'm thinking of something else
06:34 <@perlmonkey2> yeah, as far as I know, the serious digital microscopes all require MS.
06:36 <@perlmonkey2> but then again, they cost more than $20 :P
06:36 <+perlDreamer> indeed, or $27
06:38 <@perlmonkey2> yeah, they marked it up
06:40 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: but here's the question.  What kind of chip could they have on there fast enough to read from a camera and right to an lcd or usb?  
06:40 <+perlDreamer> it could be buffered for several milliseconds
06:40 <@perlmonkey2> I'm trying to remember, but I thought most cameras had to be read at something like 60hz.
06:40 <@perlmonkey2> I don't think cheap cameras have buffers.  Just the latest frame.
06:41 <@perlmonkey2> and you have to read that frame before the next one shows up.
06:42 <@perlmonkey2> so you're reading parallel data of a 1280x1024 jpeg once every 60 seconds. But you're also writing it out another connection in that same time also.
06:43 <@perlmonkey2> That's 56Kb completely moved 30 times a second.  I'd think just the circuit to do that would cost more than $20.
06:43 <+perlDreamer> 60 Hz = 16 milliseconds
06:45 <@perlmonkey2> hmm.....then it must only pull high rez jpegs when you hit the picture button.  For the LCD real time view, the camera must be sending 320x240 or smaller.
06:46 <+perlDreamer> can you download anything other than JPEG's?
06:46 <+perlDreamer> like bitmaps?
06:46 <@perlmonkey2> AVI's
06:46 <@perlmonkey2> nothing raw
06:46 <@perlmonkey2> or non-compressed
06:46 <+perlDreamer> maybe the chip also does runtime JPEG/AVI encoding
06:46 <+perlDreamer> that would greatly reduce the data rate
06:47 <@perlmonkey2> I've seen a camera that does raw and onboard jpg, so I don't see why avi is out of the question.
06:47 <@perlmonkey2> maybe tha tis what is sent to the lcd.  if the camera was sending low rez avi to the chip, that could be managable.
06:47 <+perlDreamer> definitely
06:48 <@perlmonkey2> but still....and 8 bit 20mhz chip would be running against the wall to do this.
06:48 <+perlDreamer> not if it had a hardware encoder
06:48 <+perlDreamer> if it was encoding in software, then yeah
06:49 <@perlmonkey2> really?  I'd think it would be running against the wall just to move the data.
06:49 <@perlmonkey2> without doing anthing but reading from this pin and immediately writing to that pin.
06:50 <+perlDreamer> how big are the JPEGs?
06:50 <@perlmonkey2> 16ms to read the frame.  But since you can't store 56KB in sram, you've got to send it out also.  So 16ms to read and write 56KB.  
06:50 <@perlmonkey2> they are 56KB.
06:50 <@perlmonkey2> about
06:51 <@perlmonkey2> So you need an effective throughput on both ports at the same time of 3.3MBs
06:51 <@perlmonkey2> but then again, perhaps the AVI's are much much reduce.
06:51 <@perlmonkey2> reduced.
06:51 <+perlDreamer> if the machine was 8 bit
06:52 <+perlDreamer> and it took 2 instructions to move the data from port 1 to port 2
06:52 <@perlmonkey2> okay the avi is 320x240 jpg
06:52 <+perlDreamer> then it would only have to run a 7 MHz
06:52 <@perlmonkey2> yeah, but the buses
06:52 <+perlDreamer> and port transfers are often 1 instruction
06:53 <@perlmonkey2> the chip can do it, but it has to communicate with other devices.  I guess a 1mbps uart could do it.
06:53 <+perlDreamer> USB is natively 12 MHz
06:53 <@perlmonkey2> but then again, I'm not sure how to read from parallel on 8 bit.
06:54 <+perlDreamer> you'd get a data strobe telling you when to latch it on the input buffers
06:54 <+perlDreamer> 386's did this 20 years ago
06:56 <@perlmonkey2> say you had an atmega644p with two uarts.  would you use one uart for the data?  Or can you not mix serial and parallel?
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06:59 <+perlDreamer> no, it probably has a dedicated port for the memory
06:59 <+perlDreamer> the uart would only be good for serializing/deserializing data.
07:00 <+perlDreamer> like an 8051
07:04 <@perlmonkey2> hmm, so much to learn, perlDreamer, so little time.
07:04 <+perlDreamer> the micros usually have several 8 bit ports, and a UART (for serial communication) or USB, or SPI, I2C, JTAG, SMB
07:04 <+perlDreamer> I happen to very familiar with the 1 bit UARTs, like the Dallas 1-wire interface
07:04 <+perlDreamer> very slow, very low bandwidth, very low power
07:05 <@perlmonkey2> I'd think being slow, they'd use more power.
07:05 <@perlmonkey2> the lower the baud, the lower the rate, so the longer you spend sending data.
07:05 <@perlmonkey2> or low power in that they are 0-1.8v or something?
07:06 <+perlDreamer> it can run on as low as 1.8V, but most digital power consumption is capacitive charging and discharging
07:06 <+perlDreamer> power = frequency * capacitance * voltage^2
07:06 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: what did you mean by p-data would have a dedicated port going directly into memory?
07:07 <+perlDreamer> say the CPU had two 8-bit ports
07:07 <+perlDreamer> one for sending address data, the other for reading/writing data
07:07 <@perlmonkey2> like an I/O pin?
07:07 <+perlDreamer> yes, but it sets of 8/12/16 etc
07:08 <@perlmonkey2> I've read a little about the p-date protocol, and it seems somewhat similiar to serial, except it only allows for synchronized comm.  And usually the chip has to provide the clock.
07:08 <+perlDreamer> yes
07:11 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: ahg, forgot to contact that guy for you today.  I'll try again tomorrow.
07:11 <+perlDreamer> 'alright.  I'm swimming in work right now.
07:11 <+perlDreamer> today, I figured out how to automatically build edit forms from Crud objects
07:12 <@perlmonkey2> yeah, read about your easy hack.
07:12 <@perlmonkey2> very sweet.
07:12 <@perlmonkey2> well, "easy" is your word.  I think it was pretty clever.
07:13 <+perlDreamer> I wish I'd built the dynamicForm generator a little more flexibly
07:13 <+perlDreamer> and not requiring an object to be passed in
07:15 <@perlmonkey2> anyone gone to 7.6 head and tried to drag something?
07:15 <+perlDreamer> nope, should I?
07:16 <@perlmonkey2> if you want to see teh sexy, then sure.
07:16 <@perlmonkey2> hmm, how do you remove the bloopers from the svn log.  or how to commit without a mesage?
07:16 <@perlmonkey2> I see my mistake ci was removed from teh log
07:16 <+perlDreamer> I don't know
07:17 <+perlDreamer> it's seems smoother and faster
07:17 <@perlmonkey2> woot
07:17 <@perlmonkey2> the power of YUI.
07:18 <+perlDreamer> I didn't know the calendar has drag and drop
07:20 <@perlmonkey2> is it YUI?
07:20 <+perlDreamer> I think so
07:20 <+perlDreamer> I see
07:20 <@perlmonkey2> hmm, no Calendar js in extras?
07:21 <+perlDreamer> Calendar came out of a different commit
07:23 <@perlmonkey2> alright, enough fun for me.
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10:08 < PeteBen> hi guys anyone seen SynQ?
10:10 < ryuu_ro> not yet, he normally arrives at procolix in an hour or so
10:10 < PeteBen> ok thanks ... I will wait until later :)
10:11 < ryuu_ro> when he comes in i tell him that you were looking for him, cheers
10:12 < PeteBen> thanks
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14:10 < CIA-19> WebGUI: martin * r9246 /experimental/Bazaar/ (4 files in 3 dirs): 
14:10 < CIA-19> WebGUI: - Templated search screen.
14:10 < CIA-19> WebGUI: - Added option to allow only vendors to upload items.
14:10 < CIA-19> WebGUI: - Added a toggle to (dis)allow vendors to change their data through the bazaarItem edit screen.
14:10 < CIA-19> WebGUI: NOTE: DB Schema changed: additional fields have been added to the bazaar table.
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16:45 < CIA-19> WebGUI: yung * r9247 /branch/survey-rfe/www/extras/wobject/Survey/editsurvey/object.js: applied changes for rfe 9200 to later version of object.js
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18:05 < JohnRestrepo> Good morning!
18:05 < JohnRestrepo> Or Afternoon
18:06 <+BartJol> afternoon for me
18:06 <+BartJol> But welcome
18:06 < JohnRestrepo> jeje thanks
18:07 < JohnRestrepo> I have questions about the gallery
18:07 <+BartJol> go ahead
18:07 < JohnRestrepo> Is there a way to see the photos of an album?
18:07 <+BartJol> sure, that's what it's made for
18:07 < JohnRestrepo> I mean, when I click on an album, I see it's info
18:08 <@perlmonkey2> hmm, I need some svn help here.  I know I submitted an update removing some console.log statements from an commit I did a few minutes before.  But now in the repos, I don't see that version.
18:09 <+BartJol> JohnRestrepo: When I click on the thumbnail of the album, I get redirected to the photos
18:09 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2: which branch did you commit to?
18:09 <+BartJol> but oviously that doesn't work for you
18:09 <@perlmonkey2> So I'm trying to create a patch file for it, and the patch has the console.logs in it.  So this means they are still in the head
18:09 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: 7.6head
18:09 < JohnRestrepo> And when I click on the name of the owner, I see his albums and his photos, but not the photos of an album
18:09 <@perlmonkey2> 9244
18:09 <+BartJol> mmm is it public?
18:10 <+BartJol> it can be that something went wrong with importing the photo's
18:10 <+BartJol> I had that once
18:10 <+perlDreamer> https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/log/
18:10 <+perlDreamer> it shows up there?
18:10 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: hmm, actually now I see 9245 now that i'm no longer in the extras folder.  But 9245 affected extras.  uhg
18:10 <@perlmonkey2> okay, nevermind.  Don't know what happened there, but looks good now.  Thanks
18:10 <+perlDreamer> phew :)
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18:10 <+perlDreamer> having the repo go bad is not a good way to end the week
18:11 < JohnRestrepo> Ok, what can I do?
18:11 <+perlDreamer> JohnRestrepo, is this somewhere public where we can look at it and poke at it?
18:11 <+perlDreamer> Might be a bug
18:12 < JohnRestrepo> Oh no, it's in our servers
18:12 <@Haarg> perlmonkey2, if it wouldn't be too much work, i think it would be better to have the new draggable code in www/extras/yui-webgui/build
18:13 <+perlDreamer> can you give us a list of steps to reproduce the problem?
18:13 <+BartJol> like how did you add the photo's? via the webinterface or the galleryImport.pl script
18:16 < JohnRestrepo> Via the webinterface
18:16 <+perlDreamer> so just one at a time?
18:16 < JohnRestrepo> Yes
18:17 < JohnRestrepo> I created the album, and there, I add the photos
18:18 <+perlDreamer> what do you do next?
18:18 <+BartJol> mmm, I don't know whether it is necessary to commit the version tag in which the album is
18:18 <@perlmonkey2> Haarg: okay, I'll move it.
18:18 <+BartJol> like in the CS
18:18 <@perlmonkey2> I didn't see that until I jsut sent the patch to the client, but I'll move it real fast.
18:18 < JohnRestrepo> So when I click in the thumbnail of the album it redirect me to the info of the album, there I see thumbnails, slideshow and album
18:18 <+perlDreamer> Bartjol, I think the albums autocommit
18:19 < JohnRestrepo> When I click in thumbnails, I just see the first photo
18:19 < JohnRestrepo> In slideshow I just see the three buttons but they doesn't work
18:19 <+perlDreamer> JohnRestrepo, are you using all the core, default templates, and are you viewing as the same user who uploaded the photos?
18:20 < JohnRestrepo> Yes
18:20 < JohnRestrepo> All templates are default
18:20 <+perlDreamer> and this is 7.5 or 7.6?
18:20 <@perlmonkey2> Haarg: ah, yui-webgui has asset code in it.  Should I put this draggable.js in a Layout folder?
18:20 <@Haarg> that would probably work
18:21 < JohnRestrepo> 7.5
18:21 <+BartJol> latest stable?
18:21 < JohnRestrepo> Yep
18:21 <+BartJol> mmm
18:22 <+perlDreamer> I'll make a demo site where we can play and test
18:24 < JohnRestrepo> Ok, thanks
18:25 <+BartJol> I'm a bit wondering about what the problem was that I had
18:25 <+BartJol> I think I just did it again
18:25 <+BartJol> but it was some time ago
18:25 < CIA-19> WebGUI: colin * r9248 /WebGUI/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt: Attributions in the changelog for a patch provided to fix a bug.
18:25 < CIA-19> WebGUI: colin * r9249 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt: backporting bug fix attribution.
18:25 < CIA-19> WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r9250 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Moved draggable.js to extras/yui-webgui/build/layout since it is now a wrapper around YUI dragdrob
18:26 < JohnRestrepo> BartJol you had the same problem?
18:26 <+BartJol> yeah, but I can't remember what went wrong
18:26 <+perlDreamer> http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1232122223_979/colin
18:26 <+BartJol> now I can add pictures
18:26 <+perlDreamer> do you have a cold, perlmonkey2?
18:27 <@perlmonkey2> heh :P
18:27 <+BartJol> I have a cold
18:27 <@perlmonkey2> no,but only a single cup of coffee and no breakfast.  and I refust to turn up the heat simply because it is freezing outside.
18:27 <@perlmonkey2> so myh fringers are frozen :p
18:27 <+perlDreamer> JohnRestrepo, can you check out that demo site that I pasted in above?
18:27 < JohnRestrepo> Yes, it works perfect
18:28 < JohnRestrepo> Maybe the problem is the version?
18:28 <+BartJol> so perlDreamer doesn't have the same problem
18:28 <+perlDreamer> perhaps
18:28 <+perlDreamer> JohnRestrepo: How about if you create a gallery on that same site?
18:28 <+BartJol> what was the original install version
18:28 <+perlDreamer> that will answer the version question
18:29 < JohnRestrepo> Ok, I'll try it
18:30 <+perlDreamer> tavisto, my boys are telling us that we each need to get an iPhone 3G.
18:30 <+perlDreamer> I wonder where they got that idea from?
18:30 <@tavisto> from the world
18:30 <@tavisto> iPhones are the bombdiggity
18:31 <+BartJol> not metrosexual?
18:31 < JohnRestrepo> Oh! the server is down
18:31 < JohnRestrepo> I'll be back in a moment
18:31 <@tavisto> super monkey ball
18:34 <@tavisto> Kalamazoo will finally be getting 3G service because AT&T bought Centennial Wireless (a regional carrier around me)
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18:37 < JohnRestrepo> Where can I send you some images
18:37 < JohnRestrepo> Create another gallery didn't work
18:37 <@tavisto> BartJol, the staff liked your cartoon when JT added it to the Plain Black WUC-prep meeting this week
18:38 <+perlDreamer> JohnRestrepo, it's the standard Admin username/password
18:38 <+BartJol> ooh, so you distributed it even further
18:38 < JohnRestrepo> Yes, it worked great in the demo you send me
18:38 < JohnRestrepo> But here the problem persist
18:41 <+perlDreamer> Is the album set so that anyone can view the photos?
18:41 <+perlDreamer> or, are the photos set so that anyone can view them?
18:42 <+BartJol> tavisto: I do claim my copyrights
18:42 <+perlDreamer> You've got him now, BartJol, hit him with a DMCA lawsuit with intenational copyright violations!
18:43 <+BartJol> :)
18:44 <+BartJol> no, I like him too much (in a platonic way)
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18:44 < JohnRestrepo> My friend is telling me that the version was upgraded from the previous version, maybe that's the problem
18:44 <+BartJol> always keep your guard up with those metro's
18:45 <+BartJol> it can be that the conf file isn't good (or something else might be wrong)
18:48 < JohnRestrepo> I'm gonna test it in a version installed new
18:49 < JohnRestrepo> A 7.5.34
18:49 <+perlDreamer> 7.5.34 is kind of old
18:49  * perlDreamer steps out for a bit
18:49 < JohnRestrepo> Then, I'll upgrade to 7.5.38 to see if it's an upgrade problem
18:50 <+BartJol> so you'll make an gallery, and album and add photo's before and after upgrading?
18:50 < JohnRestrepo> Yes
18:50 <+BartJol> 7.5.34 was the original version?
18:51 < JohnRestrepo> With the previous try yes
18:51 <+BartJol> ok
18:51 < JohnRestrepo> Sorry
18:51 < JohnRestrepo> No
18:51 <+BartJol> that's ok
18:51 <+BartJol> but that would rule out conf file errors
18:51 < JohnRestrepo> The new site is originaly 7.5.34
18:52 <+BartJol> and the old site, with the problems?
18:52 < JohnRestrepo> Yes
18:53 <+BartJol> you can find it in the upgrade script, just do: perl upgrade.pl --doit --history
18:54 <+BartJol> oh that script is in WebGUI/sbin
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19:04 < JohnRestrepo> Ok, with the version 7.5.34 works perfect!!
19:04 < JohnRestrepo> Now I'm gonna update to 7.5.38 and see what happens
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19:08 <+BartJol> ok\
19:10 <+BartJol> but since I'm in Europe, it;s actually beer time for me
19:11 <+BartJol> I think perlDreamerwill be back shortly
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19:15 < JohnRestrepo> Ready!
19:15 < JohnRestrepo> Everything works fine!
19:15 < JohnRestrepo> Now I've got the 7.5.38 version
19:15 < JohnRestrepo> And it goes as it should
19:15 < JohnRestrepo> Thanks a lot
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19:43 <+perlDreamer> jmarsden|work, any news on the JS file with the license issue?
19:44 < jmarsden|work> I've heard nothing from SquOnk, and I've had "real work" stuff keeping me too busy to attempt a re-implementation yet... but it's definitely something I will try when I can make the time.
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23:28 < Lisette> hi, i can do a userDefined of a CS like a <select>?
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23:36 < Lisette> anyone knows about my question?
--- Day changed Sat Jan 17 2009
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00:12 < juan> can i hide some bottoms of the rich editor?
00:12 <@preaction> juan: yes. you can edit what appears on the rich editor
00:13 < juan> where can i edit it?
00:13 < juan> in the admin console?
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00:22 <@preaction> juan: the rich editor is an asset, so you can edit the rich editor asset to edit what shows up
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00:25 < elnino> Hi.!
00:25 < elnino> Just want to confirm some of my ideas.
00:26 < elnino> I'd like to trigger a workflow, can I do that if I write a macro?
00:26 < elnino> and in that work flow, I want to generate a report and export it to html and save it off, I suppose that would all be custom code, right?
00:26 <@Haarg> you could trigger a workflow from a macro, but it's probably a bad idea
00:27 < elnino> oh?  please enlighten me.
00:27 < elnino> woudl there be a prefered method?
00:27 <@Haarg> well, it could work under the correct circumstances 
00:28 <@Haarg> what action do you want to trigger the workflow?
00:29 < elnino> a approval of a version tag
00:29 <@Haarg> well, you already have a workflow then
00:29 <@Haarg> so you could just write an activity to run as part of that
00:30 <@Haarg> the reporting and such would be custom code
00:30 < elnino> ok.
00:33 < elnino> thanks Haarg!
00:40 < elnino> The other idea, is that I would like slightly modify the look of the right side nav bar (when in asset edit mode) would that require modifying webgui's base code? (I'd like to provide a link to create a new version tag directly from there, when one is already under a version tag, instead of forcing them
00:41 < elnino> to go to admin->versiontags-> create version tag. Just make it a one step for the user.
00:41 < elnino> In fact, that might be a nice rfe... =)
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01:15 < elnino> rfe created (two different ones)
01:17 < elnino> if I want to copy a tree of assets, what type of custom plugin would I need to create?
01:17 < elnino> a form object?
01:18 <@Haarg> copy how?
01:18 <@Haarg> the normal asset toolbar should have an option to copy all children
01:18 < elnino> mostlikely thru the asset manger.
01:19 < elnino> it does?
01:19 < elnino> what version?
01:19  * elnino looks
01:19 <@Haarg> 7.5 certainly
01:19 <@Haarg> it isn't in the asset manager though
01:21 < elnino> I have 7.5.24, in "admin off" mode, I clicked on the asset's icon, and don't see the option. and the copy button only does the asset you are clicking on..  Am I in the wrong place?
01:22 <@Haarg> you tried the copy button?
01:22 <@Haarg> on the toolbar, not the context menu
01:23 < elnino> wow.  I must not use that button.. =)
01:23  * elnino is embarrased.
01:23 < elnino> woudl be easy to add that functionaity in the asset manager?
01:24 < elnino> although, come to think of it, I'm usually in IE, maybe that only works in firefox.. 
01:24  * elnino looks
01:26 < elnino> ok. you're right!  And come to think of it, that may have been my rfe.. 
01:26  * elnino really embarrased.
01:26 < elnino> so, it looks liek it determines if the asset has children to display that little drop menu.  I know I don't copy page layouts much.
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01:58 < elnino> preaction, did you do the talk on workflows at wuc 08?
01:59 <@preaction> yesm
02:00 < elnino> ok. I thought it was...=)
02:00 < elnino> I think one of your examples was having multiple approvers.. I have to go watch the video again..
02:02 < elnino> i want to commit changes, have it approved by the owner, if the owner isn't in a particular group, it has to thru the "approved" approval group, and it will require at least two approvers in that group.  all things are possible right?
02:02 < elnino> s/in that group/from that group
02:11 <@preaction> it's possible, but the current way to do it would allow one person to approve it both times (thus defeating your desire to have two distinct people approve it)
02:12 < elnino> current way = your example from wuc?
02:12 <@preaction> yes
02:14 < elnino> so if I recall, in your example, one disproves, and it moves on to another.
02:14 < elnino> but if the first approves it, the workflow stops.
02:14 < elnino> kinda like "ask mom", "ask dad", "ask mom" till you get a "yes"
02:16 < Lisette> preaction: you answer me?
02:17 <@preaction> that was just one example. what you want would be two "Request approval" activities with the same group, but since the user who approved it the first time is in the same group as needs to approve the second time, they can approve both times
02:17 < elnino> oh i see. ok.
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07:34 < oshani> Hello
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07:42 < OrenShani> hello?
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09:20 < OrenShani> Hello?
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03:07 < daviddelikat> perlmonkey2: I'm working on http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/9455
03:07 < daviddelikat> and trying to decide what items ~need~ to be fixed
03:08 < daviddelikat> and which items are more likely to be RFE's
03:09 < daviddelikat> the open office comment issue seems most pressing to me because it will likely become an issue once the product is released. 
03:09 < daviddelikat> it is not an issue in the current stable version AFAK
03:11 < daviddelikat> the empty element is cause by the first line of the text being blank, this line is used by WebGUI 
03:11 < daviddelikat> to generate the summary text for the RSS feed.
03:12 < daviddelikat>  perlmonkey2?
03:12 < daviddelikat> preaction
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06:08 < CIA-39> WebGUI: patspam * r9251 /branch/survey-rfe/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/ (Survey.pm Survey/SurveyJSON.pm Survey/ResponseJSON.pm): 
06:08 < CIA-39> WebGUI: Replaces to_json and from_json with encode_json/decode_json to properly
06:08 < CIA-39> WebGUI: handle non-ascii user input (e.g. MS Word apostrophe)
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10:55 < wgGuest06> hello?
10:56 <+Radix_> hello
10:58 < wgGuest06> hi, i was wondering if you could help me with a webGUI question. I'm a newbi
10:58 < wgGuest06> e
10:58 < wgGuest06> i have a template and a page layout
10:58 < wgGuest06> i'm trying to pull in articles or assets into the page layout
10:59 < wgGuest06> how do i associate the assets with the editable areas in the layout?
11:02 <+Radix_> drag them?
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14:57 < CIA-39> WebGUI: yung * r9252 /branch/survey-rfe/ (4 files in 4 dirs): rfe 9197: Survey timeout handling
14:57 < CIA-39> WebGUI: yung * r9253 /branch/survey-rfe/docs/upgrades/rfe-9197.sql: rfe 9197: Survey timeout handling
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16:56 < JohnRestrepo> Hi guys
16:58 < JohnRestrepo> I noticed in the new version of webgui the option "friends", that's awesome, but I only see it in the profile of the admin, how can I see it in the other users' profile?
16:58 < JohnRestrepo> How can I enable this?
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17:08 < webgui_ent> hello all
17:09 < webgui_ent> question: does anyone run WebGUI in an environment where there is a /dev version, and a /live version --- along the lines of any changes to the /live version can be easily pushed back to the /dev, and when /dev is 'updated', it can be pushed back to /live?
17:11 < webgui_ent> usecase:  on /live, admins make text changes that need to be retained, but meanwhile someone is making design changes on /dev, but need to keep the text changes from /live on /dev, then once /dev is approved deploy to /live with all the changes combined
17:21 <@preaction> webgui_ent: yes, we do that a lot. we use packages to move templates from dev to production
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17:24 < webgui_ent> preaction: could you elaborate on packages?  I'm new to webGui
17:26 <@preaction> webgui_ent: check the wiki http://wiki.webgui.org, check the Content Manager's Guide book, or check the Metadata tab when editing an asset
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19:33 <+perlDreamer> preaction: can I talk to you about the double header bug related to content chunking?
19:34 <+perlDreamer> http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/page-layout-invalid-html-with-head-block
19:34 <@preaction> sure, but only wobject's have the processStyle() sub, assets need to do it their own way
19:34 <+perlDreamer> so if I track down that code in all wobjects and replace it ala the Calendar, all will be well
19:34 <+perlDreamer> ?
19:35  * perlDreamer needs to spend some time in the Dev Guide to get Content chunking back into his head
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19:36 <@preaction> perlDreamer: the GalleryAlbum is doing it correctly, it's doing content chunking for performance benefits
19:36 <@preaction> really probably only the Layout needs the fix
19:37 <+perlDreamer> and the Calendar, which has already been fixed
19:37 <@preaction> but actually layout doesn;t either, since it really uses the superclass www_view method
19:45 <+perlDreamer> ah, and HttpProxy needs to because it subclasses www_view
19:45 <+perlDreamer> doesn't that mean we got them all?
19:46 <@preaction> perhaps they're using a macro that adds stuff to the head block? otherwise i don't know really
19:46 <@preaction> perhaps the asset in the page is not putting their head block stuff in prepareView, instead put it in view()?
19:46 <@preaction> or, perhaps the view() is making a Wg::Form::Date control or something
19:47 <+perlDreamer> but those can't be avoided
19:47 <+perlDreamer> anytime a macro/ form control whatever is called by view, it's too late to emit head tags into the head block
19:48 <@preaction> unless they're created by prepareView() and then stored until view() is called
19:50 <+perlDreamer> I think in the general case you're right
19:50 <+perlDreamer> but what if there are macros in the user supplied content?
19:50 <+perlDreamer> those macros can't be evaluated until after the template is rendered
19:50 <@preaction> macros can't be fixed. but form controls in view() can
19:50 <@preaction> macros shouldn't be using style->setLink or setScript anyway
19:51 <+perlDreamer> AdminBar macro
19:52 <@preaction> still probably shouldn't be using setLink and/or setScript
19:55 < Lisette> i can use a userDefined of a CS like a <select>?
19:55 <+perlDreamer> nope
19:56 <+perlDreamer> text, htmlarea, textarea, yesNo and float
19:56 < Lisette> mmm ok, thanks
19:56 <@preaction> unless you build the select box yourself
19:57 <+perlDreamer> would it be processed correctly on the other end, on form submission?
20:00 <@preaction> yes. select boxes are easy that way
20:01 <@preaction> unless you want multiple select, that may be more difficult
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20:26 < JohnRestrepo> Hi, how can a user add a friend in the new version?
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20:35 <+perlDreamer> JohnRestrepo, you go to a user's profile.  If it is public, and they want to participate in the Friend's Network, on their profile page there will be a link "Send Friend Request".
20:38 < JohnRestrepo> Ok, and where I found the user's profile?
20:38 < JohnRestrepo> I've been looking for it but I don't see it anywhere
20:38 <+perlDreamer> it is usually only found in the Collaboration system, when the user submits a post
20:39 <+perlDreamer> it can also be found in the UserList Asset
20:40 <+perlDreamer> in your custom code, you can get the URL for the user's profile by calling $user->getProfileUrl, but that is only available in recent versions of 7.5
20:41 < JohnRestrepo> Perfect! thanks perlDreamer
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21:08 <+perlDreamer> hello, haardy.  Do you have any WebGUI questions?
21:10 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r9254 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/NotifyAboutLowStock.pm: Emails sent about low stock should have status unread, not completed.
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22:23 < elnino> hi!   I'd like to explore using webgui for an intranet,and was hoping for some ideas. I was going set up a mainlevel menus each for each department to own and maintain. But they all have "announements" and was wondering how best to do that..
22:24 < elnino> I was hopeing that maybe people can subscribe to the announcement they want to hear.
22:24 < elnino> and I was also hoping to utilize the portal
22:24 < elnino> so I do a message board, with multiple forums for each department? or do I give them each a forum?
22:24 < elnino> in their respective places?
22:25 < elnino> the hairy part is the "HR" because they do announcments on travel (not everyone travels) and employe handbook stuff, and health benefits (not everyone pertakes in that), etc.
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22:26 < elnino> so they have many categories within their department. And I really don't relish give them a billion different CS (forums)
22:26 < bmackey> hi elnino, you could probably use the newsletter for news people could subscribe to.
22:26 < elnino> or do I have one announcment board - with subscriptions
22:26 < elnino> like bmachey just suggested. =)
22:27 < elnino> I' assuming newsletter is really a CS. I think... 
22:27 < elnino> could I have multiple rss feeds based on the newsletter categories (content profiling) and put them on the portal?
22:29 < bmackey> you could do that, too.  I have a few pages that have rss feeds built into the template for that particular department, it pulls "news" from blogs
22:30 < elnino> in your original suggestion, were you thinking multiple newsletters for each department?
22:32 < bmackey> I believe you can do one newsletter, with different departments to choose their updates from.  I believe you could control the permissions (someone correct me if I'm wrong!)
22:33 < bmackey> I haven't used it yet, but read about it in the WG Content Mgrs Guide
22:35 < elnino> me. too.
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22:35 < elnino> I wonder if newsletters have rss feeds so I can utilize the portal.
22:35 < elnino> so thtat for those that don't subscribe, they can still read about it  on the "front page"
22:36 < bmackey> Hmm, I just looked for it and can't find it in my new content...
22:37 < bernd_> elnino, newsletters inherit from the CS.
22:37 < bmackey> Maybe it's not in 7.5.37?
22:37 < bernd_> In principle they should support RSS.
22:37 < elnino> I would think too.
22:37 < bernd_> bmackey, the newsletter asset has to activated in your config file first.
22:37 < bernd_> For some reason it is not activated by default.
22:38 < bmackey> Thanks, bernd!
22:38 < elnino> so really the difference between newsletter and a CS, is... that it's not a thread type thing?
22:39 < bernd_> I think the difference is that you can use meta data  for refining subscriptions.
22:39 < bernd_> And that it is send out by the scheduler?
22:39 < bernd_> But I am not sure about that.
22:41 < elnino> oh.  bernd_ I thought I could use content profiing (meta data) with CS too? 
22:41 < elnino> I've only read about it, not used yet.
22:42 < bernd_> What I meant is that users can subscribe to certain topics only that are defined by meta data tags.
22:42 < bernd_> At least in theory.
22:42 < bernd_> I have not used the newsletter yet.
22:43 < bernd_> I think, that is not possible in the CS.
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22:55 < bmackey> I was wondering if anyone's had a field resetting or disappearing in a drop down menu?  In my user's profiles, I have a drop menu for department.  They choose it from the list, but after some time (can't say exactly) it resets to blank?
22:56 < bernd_> Sounds like a JS/AJAX issue.
22:57 < bernd_> Maybe it is getting refreshed and then some error occurs?
22:57 < bmackey> I've checked my error logs, nothing.
22:57 < bernd_> Would not appear in the error logs probably.
22:57 < bmackey> This has only happened since I upgraded to 7.5.37
22:58 < bernd_> And you do have a drop down list for department?
22:59 < bernd_> I am using 7.5.37 as well.
22:59 < bernd_> I cannot see a drop down.
23:00 < bernd_> Oh, actually I do.
23:00 < bernd_> Just noticed.
23:00 < bernd_> Can't be an AJAX issue in that case.
23:00 < bernd_> Profiles were only AJAXified in 7.6
23:00 < bmackey> I put extra departments into the inout board, so you can see them all, so I don't think that's the error.
23:01 < bmackey> Not seeing any errors through the browser, although I swear I had some earlier
23:01 < bernd_> If you find a way to reproduce you should submit a bug report.
23:04 < bmackey> Well it happens every night, it seems.  :)
23:04 < bmackey> So not hard to reproduce
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23:06 < bernd_> Someone knows how to compare a local working copy from a stable branch with the current beta head?
23:07 < bernd_> SVN does not allow to mix working copies and URLs as it seems.
23:10 < bernd_> Hm, would it be ok to submit a patch against 7.5 instead of head?
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23:24 <+perlDreamer> bernd_, if for bugfix, sure
23:24 <+perlDreamer> otherwise, you can always just use "diff"
23:24 < bernd_> No, it is a partial implementation of an RFE
23:24 < bernd_> You mean "diff" or "svn diff"?
23:25 <+perlDreamer> just good old unix diff
23:25 < bernd_> Let me check the syntax...
23:25 <+perlDreamer> if for an RFE, it had better be against 7.6
23:25 <+perlDreamer> there are no RFEs implemented against 7.5
23:25 < bernd_> But what is the syntax=
23:25 < bernd_> ?
23:25 <+perlDreamer> diff file1 file2
23:26 < bernd_> I have checked out the last stable version, since I had problems with the beta head.
23:26 < bernd_> But that would required that I install head as well.
23:26 < bernd_> And in fact, I have more than one file to compare.
23:26 < bernd_> I was thinking about something like
23:26 < bernd_> svn diff . https://svn.webgui.org/webgui
23:27 < bernd_> But svn does not let me compare local working copies and an URL.
23:27 < bernd_> Is there a workaround?
23:27 <+perlDreamer> not that I know of
23:28 <+perlDreamer> have you checked the svn book?
23:28 < bernd_> Hm.
23:28 < bernd_> Yes.
23:28 < bernd_> Could not find anything.
23:29 < bernd_> What would be your solution to the problem?
23:29 < bernd_> Install both copies and do it on the local fs?
23:30 <+perlDreamer> yes
23:30 <+perlDreamer> but I've had multiple copies of WebGUI around for a long time
23:31 <+perlDreamer> in order to patch bugs in both branches
23:31 < bernd_> I see.
23:31 < bernd_> Well, it is only disk space, isn't it?
23:31 < bernd_> Let me try.
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23:46 < bernd_> jmarsden, the install is running.
23:46 < bernd_> Let's see if it works.
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00:50 < daviddelikat> Haarg: I'm working on this bug: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/9455 and I think I've run into a design question
00:50 <@Haarg> ok
00:51 < daviddelikat> so when an RSS feed gets geenrated it uses the synopsis of the description for the text
00:51 < daviddelikat> the synopsis is calculated as the first piece upto the frst new line in the description
00:52 <@Haarg> iirc that's an issue with HTML::Template
00:52 < daviddelikat> well using the WYSYWYG editor in the current edition that tends to be very short.
00:52 <@Haarg> hm
00:53 <@Haarg> newlines not really being relevant to html
00:53 < daviddelikat> of course there is an html paragraph around the first part which is probably what we really want
00:54 < daviddelikat> the problem is that upon release this is going to cause lots of unexpected results and Im sure people will be unhappy about it.
00:56 <@Haarg> ok, so that bug seems to cover a number of different issues
00:56 < daviddelikat> yes
00:57 < daviddelikat> I guess the question is do we get rid of the current code or augment it with a test fot HTML and pull out a paragraph if we find a tag?
00:58 <+perlDreamer> right now, using that algorithm, it makes broken HTML
00:58 <@Haarg> so the issue you are asking about isn't really a syndicated content issue at all is it?
00:58 < daviddelikat> this one is not, no
00:59 < daviddelikat> but the 'javascript' for blank items is 
00:59 < daviddelikat> I found three places that were potentials for the same bug.
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00:59 <@Haarg> well, the scalar() thing as you mentioned should fix that correct?
01:00 <@Haarg> the issue in your last post sounds like a HTML::Template problem
01:00 <@Haarg> iirc it treats undef the same as the key not existing
01:00 <@Haarg> so you have to make the value an empty string in those cases
01:01 <@Haarg> as for the rss generation in the CS...
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01:02 < wgGuest21> Haarg:  daviddelikat here, my IM program is dumping me... 
01:03 <@Haarg> what is the last line you saw from me?
01:03 < wgGuest21> the problem with the javascript text appearing is actually a feature of perl
01:03 < wgGuest21> 'iirc it treats undef the same as the key not existing'
01:04 <@Haarg> <Haarg> so you have to make the value an empty string in those cases
01:04 < wgGuest21> the problem is that when the FeedPP -> description returns an empty array perl merges it with the parameter array
01:04 < wgGuest21> and the parameter array has only one element then.
01:04 <@Haarg> yeah
01:05 < wgGuest21> so forcing scalar context it returns a blank string instead.
01:05 <@Haarg> yeah
01:06 <@Haarg> so the javascript thing and the displaying the asset's description should be simple fixes
01:06 <@Haarg> the rss generation not so much
01:06 < wgGuest21> the question with that is do we COA and treat them all just in case something comes through blank or do we just treat the ones that we can see?
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01:06 < wgGuest21> still here
01:07 < wgGuest21> yes is is a simpel fix
01:07 < wgGuest21> what do mean by rss gen?
01:07 <@Haarg> the rss feed generation that the collaboration system does
01:08 < wgGuest21> I don't think it should be too hard to get the first paragraph if thats what you mean
01:08 < wgGuest21> the goofy part is getting rid of the comment
01:08 < wgGuest21> because it gets symbol replacement for the html tags 
01:09 < wgGuest21> we have to grab &lt;--  blah blah --&gt;
01:09 <@Haarg> hrm
01:09 <@Haarg> that seems like a different problem
01:09 <@Haarg> if it is treating that like text instead of html
01:09 < wgGuest21> it only happens when stuff gets pasted
01:10 < wgGuest21> from openoffice ( or maybe others )
01:10 < wgGuest21> it is the WYSYWYG ediutor
01:10 < wgGuest21> if you use the other editor it is fine
01:10 < wgGuest21> i think it is called moderators editor or some such
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01:26 <@Haarg> daviddelikat, can you give me more about how to reproduce the issue?  i'm having trouble putting something into the rich editor that will result in an html comment in the rss
01:26 <@Haarg> unless i'm missing something about what you meant with that
01:27 < daviddelikat> it is possible that it only happen on XP
01:28 < daviddelikat> I can show you what it lookes like though... just give me a minute
01:28 < daviddelikat> I have figured out issue #4, we can discuss that later...
01:30 < daviddelikat> Haarg  are we talking about reproducing the comment? or the blank/empty feed element?
01:30 <@Haarg> the comment
01:33 < daviddelikat> interesting note: the comment does not show up upon first pasting the text.  also you have to use ctrl-v for the insert because the popup menu won't let you, perhaps the ctrl-v should be fixed to do the same as the popup...
01:34 < daviddelikat> and of course NOW i can't get it to do it either...
01:34 < daviddelikat> sorry, that's because I'm using the advanced editor ( not the default ) hold on while i change it.
01:36 < daviddelikat> the 'content managers rich editor' works fine; the forum rich editor does not...
01:38 < daviddelikat> well.... 
01:38 < daviddelikat> its doing a great job demonstraiting the last problem i found...
01:38 < daviddelikat> http://delikat.homeip.net:8080/the_latest_news 
01:38 <@Haarg> the popup thing isn't really something we can fix
01:39 <@Haarg> clipboard rather
01:39 <@Haarg> firefox security thing
01:39 < daviddelikat> you can see that the first couple of items show the same text as the general description
01:40 < daviddelikat> this is because the template is using that velue because the other one does not exist.
01:40 <@Haarg> yeah
01:40 < daviddelikat> and the reason this is happening is because the RSS feed is blank for those items due to the synopsys issue
01:40 <@Haarg> that should be a pretty simple fix though
01:41 < daviddelikat> but if you go to the main page and login as admin ( 123qwe) 
01:41 < daviddelikat> you can go doen to the bottom and look at the items themselves and see the comment thing in  action...
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05:00 < daviddelikat> Haarg
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06:11 < daviddelikat> Haarg perlmonkey2
06:11 <@perlmonkey2> daviddelikat: word
06:11 <@perlmonkey2> caught me just before I was going to sign off.  What's up?
06:12 < daviddelikat> I'm working on the syndicated content bug
06:12 < daviddelikat> and i have a question about how i should put the solution
06:12 <@perlmonkey2> refresh my memory on the bug :)
06:12 < daviddelikat> one of the problems is that the synopsis is being determined by where the newline
06:13 < daviddelikat> shows up in the text.  and with the new wyzywyg editor the newlines get put in
06:13 < daviddelikat> at short intervals
06:13 < daviddelikat> and there it HTML markup inside the text
06:13 <@perlmonkey2> I didn't think the regex broke on newlines
06:13 < daviddelikat> so im trying to grab out the first html paragraph
06:14 < daviddelikat> it is matching the newlines
06:14 < daviddelikat> I'll post the code...
06:14 < daviddelikat> http://webgui.pastebin.com/d1864951e
06:15 < daviddelikat> I have a pattern inthere to match the paragraph just to see that it works.
06:15 < daviddelikat> my question is should I put a function in WebGUI ::HTML to grab paragraph or should I just write it in Post.pm?
06:16 < daviddelikat> obviously I intend to use HTML::Parser.
06:18 <@perlmonkey2> is this a bug in the SC or in Posts?
06:19 <@perlmonkey2> daviddelikat: ?
06:19 < daviddelikat> the code is in Post.pm
06:20 <@perlmonkey2> right
06:20 < daviddelikat> the issue is only seen in SC
06:20 <@perlmonkey2> but I'm not following why you'd put the fix in there if the problem is that the SC's 100/75/50/... word descriptions weren't correct because of newlines.
06:21 < daviddelikat> SC doesn't get anything from the RSS because the Synopsis is empty
06:21 < daviddelikat> because there is a newline at the beginning of the description
06:21 <@perlmonkey2> ahah
06:21 < daviddelikat> generally right after <p>
06:22 <@perlmonkey2> that makes sense
06:24 < daviddelikat> so what do you think of the solution? using HTML::Parser that is
06:24 <@perlmonkey2> daviddelikat: Okay, I'm with you and I like your solution.  But as to where that fix should go, you should probably ask rizen or khenn.  
06:24 < daviddelikat> ok, thanks, I really don't know who does what around here
06:25 < daviddelikat> question is are they watching?
06:25 <@perlmonkey2> since the original logic was in Post, that seems like a decent place for it.  But it also might be an inprovement to add that functionality to WG::HTML so that it is easy to grab the first bit of seperated text from some HTML.
06:26 < daviddelikat> yeah, I figured WG::HTML because the moduel is already used there and that is where most HTML is handled
06:27 < daviddelikat> rizen khenn
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06:27 < daviddelikat> i guess there not watching
06:27 <@perlmonkey2> daviddelikat: if you put it in WG::HTML you could make it really sexy by adding lots of options that could be passed in for finding the synopopsys.  But leave its defaults like you have it.
06:28 < daviddelikat> what woudl you call it?
06:29 < daviddelikat> I was thinking grabFirstParagraph
06:29 < daviddelikat> but if it takes lots of options then that doesn't make sense
06:29 <@perlmonkey2> something that specified it was for getting the synopsis of textbox type markup. 
06:29 <@perlmonkey2> daviddelikat: well, you could default to <p> but allow them to pass in <br> hr or whatever.
06:30 <@perlmonkey2> and maybe default the number of paragraphs to grab on the split to 0, but allow them to override.
06:31 <@perlmonkey2> but it's fine how it is.
06:31 < daviddelikat> how about splitTag?
06:31 < daviddelikat> HTML::SplitTag
06:31 <@perlmonkey2> sure
06:32 < daviddelikat> HTML::splitTag('tagname','HTML text',[count] )
06:32 < daviddelikat> that way it looks like what people might expect
06:32 <@perlmonkey2> I dig it.
06:32 < daviddelikat> and if there's only one arg then the tag name defaults to p
06:33 < daviddelikat> I'll code it tonoght, test it tomorrow.
06:33 < daviddelikat> thanks
06:33 <@perlmonkey2> daviddelikat: great idea.
06:34  * perlmonkey2 is outy 5000
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09:49 < CIA-39> WebGUI: patspam * r9255 /branch/survey-rfe/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Refactored SurveyJSON's new, freeze and addObject for readability
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17:14 <@plainhao> if i were to patch the settings table, where would the canonical place be? docs/create.sql?
17:15 <@plainhao> i mean in wg core beta
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17:19 <+BartJol> sorry plainhao I don't know, I'm not a core developer
17:26 < SDuensin> Greetings.
17:30 <+BartJol> morning
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17:32  * plainhao thanks bart.
17:32  * plainhao just asked the dev list.
17:35 <+BartJol> ok ,good luck
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17:49  * plainhao thanks preaction for the helpful response on dev list.
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18:10 < elnino> preaction - I have questions about work flows.....
18:10 <@preaction> okay, shoot
18:10 < elnino> ok.I"ve been reading tmy shop guide.
18:10 < elnino> I want to sell a subscription
18:10 < elnino> that will automaticaly add a user to a group
18:10 < elnino> so thatthey can view content on our website.
18:10 < elnino> when they purchase this product
18:11 < elnino> a work flow will run to send out periodic
18:11 < elnino> canned emails like aweber.
18:11 < elnino> aweber calls them "auto responders"
18:11 < elnino> you can schedule them to send out on any 
18:11 < elnino> interval of days that you want.
18:11 < elnino> SO
18:11 < elnino> my workflow would be create
18:12 < elnino> and then each activity in it would send out a specified email at a particular time after they sign up?
18:12 < elnino> so an email will send on the day they purchase, then one day after that
18:12 < elnino> then maybe a week after that, then after that once a month
18:13 <@preaction> okay, so far so good
18:13 < elnino> 2) what type of work flow should it be? I'm only given the choices of "none" "user" and "version tag" - I"m assuming "user"
18:13 < elnino> but the book says "group"
18:14 < elnino> do I have to write the "group-type workflow"?
18:14 < elnino> or is that ina later version of webgui?
18:14 <@preaction> the types of workflows are defined only in the config file
18:14 <@preaction> but you can probably get by with a "none" workflow type
18:15 <@preaction> you're going to have to write the activity yourself though
18:15 < elnino> ok, I tried that. 
18:15 < elnino> Oh, that was my next question. I didn't see a "send email" activity
18:16 <@preaction> a normal send email activity wouldn;t work, you've got some very specific timeframes. you'll want the workflow to run every day, and somehow keep track of what email should be sent to the user when
18:16 < elnino> so, I"m correct about setting an activity for each email that get's sent out? inmy example, i'd have at least four "send email" activities
18:16 <@preaction> one would probably work, given the right code
18:17 < elnino> yeah, I was thinnking of having parameters setting the intervals. so it would be the same activity just setup differently.
18:17 < elnino> I typed too fast, hopefully that made sense. =(
18:17 < elnino> would this be a parallel work flow? or serial?
18:18 < elnino> i'm thinking serial...
18:18 <@preaction> serial probably, to make sure that only one of them is running at a given time
18:18 <@preaction> i might even go singleton
18:18 <@preaction> in fact, i would go singleton. you would never want two of these workflows in the queue at once
18:19 < elnino> oh. so, a workflow wouldn't be run for each user.
18:19 < elnino> I'll be back real quick.
18:19 <@preaction> no, it would loop over the users
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18:22 < elnino> I figured it would be triggered when a user purchases a product. I think I saw a setting there...
18:23 < elnino> (when a purchase is made, they are added to a group - which is where I think I saw the "on registration run workflow" setting)
18:27 < elnino> preaction - I guess it was under settings-> user I saw this.. But I'm pretty sure I saw something like that somewhere else.
18:27 <@preaction> not that i know of yet
18:29  * elnino still looking =)
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20:08  * perlDreamer heads to the gym
20:09 <+perlDreamer> deafferret, you can suck down all the pizza that you want today
20:10 < deafferret> boo-ya!
20:10 < deafferret> spits out the salad & Nutrisystem, heads downstairs for Chinese
20:12 < deafferret> c'mon purl. you know I meant ) there, not } ... sigh
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20:59 < bernd_> jmarsden|work, are you listening?
21:13 < bernd_> jmarsden, maybe now?
21:13 < bernd_> Or has anyone online played with debian/ubuntu packages?
21:15 < diakopter> bernd_: where are they
21:15 < bernd_> I got mine from the PPA of jmarsden.
21:15 < bernd_> Do you want the apt source line?
21:20 < diakopter> bernd_: sure!
21:21 < diakopter> is it staged to be included in debian [somewhere]?
21:21 < bernd_> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/jmarsden/ubuntu intrepid main
21:21 < bernd_> Be aware that the package is only preliminary!
21:22 < bernd_> Also check this post for instructions: http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/dev/discuss/ubuntu-packages/3/re-ubuntu-packages
21:27 < bernd_> diakopter, I think it will be in the next debian release.
21:27 < diakopter> neat...
21:27 < bernd_> But currently, there is only a PPA by Ernesto.
21:27 < bernd_> I do not have the source line, however.
21:28 < bernd_> But what I wanted to talk about is that they stripped the proxy configuration from these packages.
21:29 < bernd_> Or at least I think they did.
21:29 < bernd_> I assume that is a pretty bad idea.
21:29 < bernd_> Can someone comment on the performance loss?
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22:03 <+perlDreamer> bernd_: the proxy setup is pretty particular to the WRE
22:03 <+perlDreamer> it  just means that a heavyweight apache process will server static content
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22:14 < bernd_> perlDreamer, but should it not be included in general?
22:15 < bernd_> I assume, the proxy does the caching?
22:15 <+perlDreamer> No, webgui caches inside itself
22:15 <+perlDreamer> the proxy just serves static content, as far as I know
22:15 < bernd_> Like the stuff in extras?
22:15 <+perlDreamer> yes, and I believe other things, too
22:16 <+perlDreamer> I should study how it works someday
22:16 < bernd_> Ok, in that case I need to check the configuration files again.
22:16 < bernd_> But since it seems to work, configuration is probably correct.
22:17 < bernd_> And it seems to be lightning fast!
22:17 < bernd_> Much faster than the WRE installed on my notebook.
22:17 < bernd_> Really cool!
22:24 < bernd_> perlDreamer, did you replace the editor on the translation server?
22:24 <+perlDreamer> yes
22:24 <+perlDreamer> what do you think?
22:25 < bernd_> Seems to be more light-weight and faster.
22:25 < bernd_> But the frame around is ugly.
22:26 < bernd_> Is that the YUI editor supposed to come for webgui as a whole?
22:26 <+perlDreamer> I think that eventually that YUI editor will be used in place of TinyMCE
22:26 < bernd_> So what is your impression?
22:27 < bernd_> Is it better than TinyMCE?
22:27 < bernd_> Or just more of the same kind.
22:28 <+perlDreamer> smaller, faster, lighter, more robust, and fewer dependencies
22:28 <+perlDreamer> fewer dependencies for WebGUI, that is
22:28 < bernd_> Sounds good. But where is the drawback? I am sure there is one...
22:30 < bernd_> btw, the "insert item" label wraps into two rows.
22:34 < bernd_> perlDreamer, is it possible the new i18n labels are out?
22:34 < bernd_> Account modules have blown up a lot.
22:34 <+perlDreamer> it is possible, since it's Tuesday
22:35 < bernd_> So it's all fresh!
22:35 < bernd_> Yummie.
22:35 <+perlDreamer> did you see my "How to install the translation server" wiki page?
22:36 < bernd_> No. Not yet.
22:36 < bernd_> Is is foolproof?
22:36 < bernd_> it
22:37 < bernd_> Let me check.
22:37 < bernd_> If it is easy enough, I will be able to translate in the train soon.
22:37 < bernd_> That will give German translation a boost.
22:38 <+perlDreamer> well, it is not really possible to merge with the main translation server
22:39 <+perlDreamer> so it's really for people who want to do development, debugging, and older versions of WebGUI
22:39 < bernd_> I have asked rizen for write access to the German translation.
22:39 < bernd_> But he has not replied yet.
22:39 < bernd_> That would solve the problem
22:40 < bernd_> Seems like he is still ignoring me :-)
22:44 <+perlDreamer> it's financial year end, I'm guessing he's pretty busy with accounting
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23:01 < bernd__> perlDreamer, there is lots of punctuation missing in Account_Inbox.pm
23:01 < bernd__> Is that on purpose?
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23:08  * perlDreamer uses all of his punctuation in perl, so there's not a lot left over for i18n
23:08 < bernd__> =)
23:09 < bernd__> Ok. I assume, it is safe then to add the punctuation in the translation.
23:09 < bernd__> Or are there any . left in templates?
23:11 <+perlDreamer> No, there wouldn't be hanging punctuation in templates
23:11 <+perlDreamer> please feel free to post bugs about that, too
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23:12 < bernd__> Not possible! There are too many :Op
23:13 < bernd__> Time to go to bed.
23:14 < bernd__> You all, have a pleasant evening!
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23:38 <+perlDreamer> tea and soda for my team of expert hackers is a business expense, right?
23:44 <@preaction> yes'm
23:46 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r9256 /translations/German/German/ (Account_Inbox.pm Asset_Gallery.pm): Update from translation server
23:48 <+perlDreamer> excellent
23:48 <+perlDreamer> my tea supply is dwindling
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00:38 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, if you'll update the Bazaar code on PB.com, I can close this bug http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/9073
00:40 <@Haarg> ok, i'll try to get that tonight
00:40 <+perlDreamer> argh.  I didn't merge before trying to commit.  We'll see how hard the new, templated version is to manage.
00:41 <+perlDreamer> what rev is PB.com running now?
00:42 <@Haarg> i don't know
00:44 <+perlDreamer> well, the new, templated  Bazaar is different enough that the bug needs to be reevaluated, so I'm going to revert my code.
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01:00 <+perlDreamer> good morning, patspam
01:01 < patspam> morning!
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02:58 < patspam> perlmonkey2: yo-ee
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03:03 < patspam> started reading the Survey code from start to finish (rather than just hacking ad-hoc), there's some good stuff in there man :)
03:11 <@perlmonkey2> patspam: hah, nice of you to say, but it can't be true.  You must be buttering me up for something?
03:16 < patspam> heh no ulterior motive.. honest!
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04:01 <+perlDreamer> I said the same things, patspam, and he didn't believe me either.
04:15 < patspam> perlmonkey2: did you use PerlTidy to add the end-of-block comments, or did you put them in manually?
04:15 <@perlmonkey2> patspam: perltidy
04:16 < patspam> ever since i read Schwern's "Skimmable Code" stuff I've tried to avoid them
04:16 < patspam> http://use.perl.org/~schwern/journal/36704 and http://use.perl.org/~schwern/journal/37549?from=rss
04:21 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2, what version of git is in FC10?
04:22 <@perlmonkey2> 1.6.06
04:22 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: 
04:26 <+perlDreamer> that answers that, too
04:26 <+perlDreamer> thanks, man :)
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04:35 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: heh, having version problems?
04:36 <+perlDreamer> git from FC9 is not playing well with github
04:36 <+perlDreamer> it's having pouty-fits
04:41 <+perlDreamer> it will only take two hours to download FC10
04:41 <+perlDreamer> and about another hour to upgrade
04:50 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: can't you just grab the fc10.git.rpm?
04:51 <+perlDreamer> it's written in C.  it will have dozens of dependencies on glibc
04:51 <+perlDreamer> and various parts
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05:56 < CIA-39> WebGUI: patspam * r9257 /branch/survey-rfe/ (2 files in 2 dirs): 
05:56 < CIA-39> WebGUI: Added totalSections/Questions/Answers helper subs, refactored
05:56 < CIA-39> WebGUI: getDragDropList to use helper subs, and added extra $address param
05:56 < CIA-39> WebGUI: documentation.
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07:39 < CIA-39> WebGUI: patspam * r9258 /branch/survey-rfe/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey/SurveyJSON.pm: 
07:39 < CIA-39> WebGUI: More SurveJSON refactoring (mostly documentation and simple code
07:39 < CIA-39> WebGUI: changes)
07:39 < CIA-39> WebGUI: patspam * r9259 /branch/survey-rfe/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey/SurveyJSON.pm: More SurveyJSON refactoring..
07:39 < CIA-39> WebGUI: patspam * r9260 /branch/survey-rfe/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey/SurveyJSON.pm: More SurveyJSON refactoring (mostly documentation)
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08:10 < wgGuest91> currently having a problem with email on only one of the domains.
08:10 < wgGuest91> the email is queued but not sent out.
08:11 < wgGuest91> I think webgui is find because the other domains are working great with email
08:11 < wgGuest91> Any ideas where I check for problems.
08:12 < wgGuest91> hope someone can point me in the right direction
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15:38 < bmackey> Good morning!  I was wondering, could I just use a redirect to have my users directed to https rather than http?  SSL is configured and working, and their logins are encrypted, but the bosses want it to automatically go to https.
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15:41 <+BartJol> morning
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15:50 < JohnRestrepo> Hi
15:51 < JohnRestrepo> What's up?
15:51 < JohnRestrepo> A question
15:52 < JohnRestrepo> I want to upgrade from version 7.5.38 to version 7.6.8 beta
15:52 < JohnRestrepo> Can I do it directly?
15:52 < JohnRestrepo> Or I'm going to have problems?
15:56 <+BartJol> no you can't do it directly
15:56 <+BartJol> you can't do it at all actually
15:57 <+BartJol> well nothing is impossible
15:57 <+BartJol> but
15:57 <+BartJol> there are no standard scripts from 7.5.38 to 7.6.x
15:57 <+BartJol> only from 7.5.24
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15:58 <+BartJol> so JohnRestrepo, you would be in for trouble
15:59 <+BartJol> I'm not sure when 7.6 will be declared stable, but then a update script will be made for latest 7.5 to 7.6
16:02 < JohnRestrepo> It's just for tests purposes
16:03 <+BartJol> oh, so no real sites there?
16:03 <+BartJol> no data that would be lost?
16:03 <+BartJol> then just remove the sites
16:03 <+BartJol> and install latest beta
16:06 <+BartJol> do remove the whole webgui tree
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16:15 < JohnRestrepo> Yeah, it's a better option
16:15 < JohnRestrepo> Thanks a lot
16:18 <+BartJol> np
16:24 < JohnRestrepo> I'm did it, but I got this error when try to install the new version: WebGUI modules: Not Found. Perhaps you're running this script from the wrong place.
16:25 <+BartJol> ok, what command did actually produced this error?
16:25 < JohnRestrepo> perl testEnvironment.pl
16:26 <+BartJol> so you did download latest beta and unpacked the archive (otherwise you can't reach that file)
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16:26 <+BartJol> eeeh
16:27 <+BartJol> I think you can run the update script first so WebGUI and wre are getting aware of each other
16:27 <+BartJol> so in /data/wre/sbin
16:27 <+BartJol> perl webguiupdate.pl
16:28 <+BartJol> brb
16:35 < JohnRestrepo> Ok, clone.pm was missing, I don't know why but now I'm installing the new version
16:36 <+BartJol> cloen.pm? doesn't ring a bell, but surely it's unmissable ;)
16:36 <+BartJol> clone
16:37 <+BartJol> ah, it's a perl module
16:39 <+BartJol> well, installing is good
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17:04 < JohnRestrepo> Ok, I have installed the new version, :)
17:04 <+BartJol> great work !
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18:12 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2: it would have been nice to know that upon installing FC10 neither vim nor firefox would work.
18:12  * perlDreamer looks at him with misdirected, accusing glances
18:15 <+perlDreamer> and wishes that yum ran faster
18:18 <+BartJol> perlDreamer: any scary stories about translations for me?
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18:21 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: eh?  why wouldn't vim or firefox work?  and yum runs faster than ever for me.
18:21 <@perlmonkey2> ah, but you use the upgrade.
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18:21 <@perlmonkey2> I've never used the upgrade, so I have no idea how well it works.
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18:26 < ckotil> i was trying to use yum to install flash for firefox on centOS 5.2 last night and couldnt find it
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18:28 <@perlmonkey2> ckotil: did you try: http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/
18:28 < ckotil> nah, but i will when i get home. thanks
18:29 <@perlmonkey2> ckotil: they even have an alpha 64bit which seems to work well enough for me, if a bit slow.
18:29 < ckotil> cool. 
18:29 < ckotil> do they let you download an rpm for linux?
18:30 < ckotil> or more specifically for centos 5
18:30 <@perlmonkey2> pegs a core of my T8300
18:30 <@perlmonkey2> ckotil: it is just for linux as far as I understand.
18:30 <@perlmonkey2> although a special .deb for ubuntu 8.04
18:31 <@perlmonkey2> ah, 8.04+
18:31 < ckotil> ah
18:31 <@perlmonkey2> but I used the yum repo when I was using the x86 version with the wrappers.
18:31 <@perlmonkey2> But then I've never used Cent as a desktop, so I've never installed flash on it.
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18:37 < ckotil> I just threw the cent live cd on this new box i got. a dell PEc1420 tower
18:37 < ckotil> gonna make a nas out of it. ive got 2 of these nice 3ware 8 port sata raid cards
18:37 < ckotil> 1 will do ;) dunno what ill do w/ the second
18:38 <@perlmonkey2> ckotil: heh, right on
18:38 <@perlmonkey2> ckotil: gige running to it?
18:39 < ckotil> sadly no. its at my house, and i only have 100mbit routers and switches
18:39 < ckotil> not sure if it even has a gige interface on the mobo
18:39 < ckotil> the machine is about 4 yrs old now
18:40 < ckotil> i got it cheap
18:40 <@perlmonkey2> ckotil: yeah, 100mbit works fine at my place since there's usually only a single person moving files at any time, and its usually over wifi.
18:41 < ckotil> nice, ill usually be the only one using it as well. i might have a friend or two streaming music from the web, which isnt very bandwidth intensive
18:42 <@perlmonkey2> ckotil: know much about failure rates and recovery on SSD?  
18:43 < ckotil> nil
18:43 < ckotil> just that SSD is supposed to have lower failure rates :)
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18:44 <@perlmonkey2> ckotil: I've also read that when an SSD fails, it almost always fails on a write.  So that sector can be marked bad and the data written to a new sector.  Read failures are supposed to almost never happen.
18:45 <@perlmonkey2> But for now, spinning disks are still king :P
18:45 <+perlDreamer> BartJol, no scary i18n news, aside from the new editor
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18:47 <+perlDreamer> time for a reboot, bbs
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19:08 <+perlDreamer> anybody in here use Mandriva?
19:09 <+BartJol> nope, not me
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20:26 <+perlDreamer> git is very fast
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20:30 < CIA-40> WebGUI: tabitha * r9261 /WebGUI/www/extras/account/print.css: Added a style for printing Alumni pages
20:30 < CIA-40> WebGUI: arjan * r9262 /WebGUI/ (8 files in 3 dirs): fixed: ukplayer example is now loaded with swfobject.js released under the MIT licence, see gotcha's and /extras/ukplayer
20:31 <+perlDreamer> jmarsden, jmarsden|work, did you see that?
20:32 < jmarsden|work> Wow, very cool... I'll check it out... is that for 7.6 development code, or for a 7.5.x release, though?
20:33 <+perlDreamer> 7.6, I'm pretty sure
20:33 <+perlDreamer> but it shouldn't be too hard to backport it if 7.5 is needed
20:34 < jmarsden|work> It's likely to be needed, since 7.6 has different CPAN dependencies than 7.5.x, so we probably need to get 7.5.x into Ubuntu first.  The 7.5.x deps are met, the 7.6 ones ... I am not sure they are all there as Ubuntu packages yet.
20:35 <+perlDreamer> 7.6 is supposed to go stable within a few weeks
20:35 < jmarsden|work> Deadline for getting stuff into Ubuntu Jaunty is Feb 23... that's also "a few weeks" -- would be cutting things very very close!
20:36 < jmarsden|work> Make that Feb 19th...
20:39 <+perlDreamer> basically, 3 weeks
20:39 < jmarsden|work> perlDreamer: Looks like this change is *exactly* what we need for the licencing issue -- it drops the file with the problem completely from WebGUI :-)
20:39 <+perlDreamer> well, and replaces it with one with an acceptable license, too :)
20:39 <+perlDreamer> kind of a belt and suspenders fix
20:40 < jmarsden|work> Yes... I need to check about having code under multiple different licences in the same package, but I am pretty sure that's fine as long as it is fully documented in the package.
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20:48 <+perlDreamer> well, we have a few options
20:49 <+perlDreamer> 1) a separate repo for debian could be made/kept until the CPAN deps for 7.6 got into Debian
20:49 <+perlDreamer> 2) we could backport it
20:49 <+perlDreamer> the problem with (2) is that 7.5 is in freeze
20:49 <+perlDreamer> only bugs get fixed
20:49 <+perlDreamer> I'm not sure this is a bug, but I know that we really, really want WebGUI in Debian (and Ubuntu and all other derivatives)
20:50 <+perlDreamer> and it's like 5 seconds worth of work to backport the file
20:57 < CIA-40> WebGUI: tabitha * r9263 /WebGUI/www/extras/account/account.css: Attempt to fix IE6 bug
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21:20 <+perlDreamer> rizen: can the license fix for the UK flash player be ported back to 7.5 so that it can go into Debian?
21:21 <@rizen> is it even used in 7.5?
21:21 <@rizen> i don't think it is
21:21 <@rizen> it could probably just be deleted
21:21 <@rizen> but you'd want to verify that 
21:22 <+perlDreamer> I'll check
21:24 <+perlDreamer> it's not in the create.sql files, or any templates
21:24 <+perlDreamer> which seems odd, since I though it was used in the gallery
21:24 < jmarsden|work> email with Ernesto earlier suggested that it was used and that removing it would break usage of Flash ?
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21:25 <+perlDreamer> if the file itself was removed, then the flash player would not work
21:25 <+perlDreamer> but removing the whole thing is another issue
21:26 < jmarsden|work> So... removing the flash player entirely still allows flash content to work?  OK...
21:26 <+perlDreamer> you can always manually embed one
21:27 <+perlDreamer> the default core content does that
21:27 <+perlDreamer> but the UK flash player is for slide shows, and gallery-type stuff
21:27 <+perlDreamer> it's just not used anywhere in the core, until 7.6, where the MatrixListing asset uses it to show slideshows of thumbnails uploaded to the listing
21:28 <@rizen> that's what i thought
21:29 <@rizen> matrix is the first thing to use it
21:29 <@rizen> we haven't gotten around to refactoring the gallery yet
21:29 <@rizen> which will eventually use it
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21:29 <+perlDreamer> so we should just have them remove it from the debian package, rather than have us pull it from SVN?
21:30 < jmarsden|work> Sure, we could exclude www/ukplayer/ at package creation time...  I wish we'd known we could do that a while back :)
21:31 <+perlDreamer> I wouldn't doubt that the people who added ukplayer to the repo use it for custom code.
21:31 <+perlDreamer> but that shouldn't stop people from using regular old core WebGUI
21:32 < jmarsden|work> So... would be in fact be better to just backport this change so it still works for such people?
21:33 <+perlDreamer> not if it were to introduce any kind of bug/browser issue
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21:34 <+perlDreamer> but that's a hard kind of risk to quantify
21:35 < jmarsden|work> Yes.  If the UK folks are the ones using ukplayer in custom code in 7.5.x, then you'd think they be well placed to handle any issue their own patch causes?  So maybe it is "OK" to take that (small?) risk?
21:36 < jmarsden|work> s/they be/they would be/
21:37 <+perlDreamer> core changes are all rizen's call
21:39 <@rizen> just build it out of the RPMs/DEBs etc until 7.6
21:39 <@rizen> leave it in svn
21:39 < jmarsden|work> OK.  Thanks.
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22:03 <+BartJol> mmm the links on http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki?func=byKeyword;keyword=macro seem to be broken
22:05 <+BartJol> or better, webgui.org seems to be down
22:05 < ckotil> for me too
22:06 <+BartJol> svn too
22:06 <+BartJol> let's just keep nagging till it's repared ;)
22:08 <+BartJol> darn, it's back already 
22:11 <+perlDreamer> well, we do like it when webgui.org is back up
22:13 <+BartJol> you, I can get more karma when it's up
22:13 <+BartJol> s/you/yeah/
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22:14 <+BartJol> but besides drinking beer, nagging is the Dutchies favorite hobby
22:41 <+perlDreamer> speaking of nagging, nice work on the i18n
22:42 <+BartJol> you understand the dutch? or is there something wrong?
22:44 <+perlDreamer> no, you're back up to 100%
22:44 <+perlDreamer> and still the reigning king of i18n!
22:45 -!- ckotil_ [n=newtrino@iub-vpn-194-173.noc.indiana.edu] has joined #webgui
22:45 <+BartJol> I've got a rep to keep, bro!
22:46 <+BartJol> mmm, maybe this is the time to install that translation tool thingy
22:48 <+BartJol> ah, your wiki entry already is unvalid for me from the first sentence: I have a wre installed
22:48 <+BartJol> but I'll read it anyway
22:50 <+BartJol> mmm, and I can't use my own webgui install, since I'm on beta
22:51 <+BartJol> but that's just elementary, I do can download
22:51 <+perlDreamer> you can probably just modify the modperl instance of the apache config
22:51 <+perlDreamer> but that's a guess
22:52 <+BartJol> yeah, or a second apache
22:53 <+BartJol> mmm'
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23:17 < binyamin> anyway bored enough to help with upgrading the vmware dev image that webgui provides?
23:20 < binyamin> having issues w/ dns resolution, can ping dns servers, can resolve s I run a "host www.google.com x.x.x.x" - /etc/resolve.conf contains correct server info
23:20 < binyamin> am I missing something or utterly daft
23:20 < binyamin> i.e when I run the update script, it fails on checking for a new rev
23:23 <+BartJol> and can download it manually?
23:23 < binyamin> I can push a wre or the source package to the thing using scp, sure
23:23 <+BartJol> "you" should be somewhere in that sentence
23:23 < binyamin> or do you mean wget?
23:24 <+BartJol> well, then you can use local instead of a mirror
23:24 <+BartJol> it doesn't solve your problem
23:24 <+BartJol> how you get it there doesn't really matter
23:25 < binyamin> I tried the source compile, that didn't work so well - can get notes on what exactly happened if you're that bored, otherwise do you know which wre package should be used w/ the vmware image?
23:25 < binyamin> i.e wre-0.8.5-rhel-5-ia32.tar.gz?
23:25 <+BartJol> let me have a look
23:26 <+BartJol> well, what kind of os is vmware running? is it red hat?
23:26 <+BartJol> never used that one
23:26 < binyamin> oh 
23:27 < binyamin> [root@webguidev ~]# uname -a
23:27 < binyamin> Linux webguidev.explc.net 2.6.18-8.el5 #1 SMP Thu Mar 15 19:57:35 EDT 2007 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
23:27 < binyamin> err
23:27 <+BartJol> :)
23:27 < binyamin> kernel isn't so much what you're looking for :)
23:27 <+perlDreamer> so what exact problem are you having?
23:27 <+BartJol> ah, the real pro steps in
23:27 <+perlDreamer> (pro-coder, junior sys-admin)
23:28 <+BartJol> I'm baby in both categories
23:28 < binyamin> well, as above, the problem I think is soruced from the fact I can't use the automagic update via the perl script due to dns not working
23:29 < binyamin> all other network funtions work on the vmware image
23:29 < binyamin> I guess the entire issue sources around how faimular one is with the vmware image they provide - this might come down to just building out a dev box on my oen, scrapping webgui's provided image
23:30 <+perlDreamer> have you considered that the upgrade server might be down?
23:30 <+perlDreamer> webgui.org was down a little while ago
23:30 < binyamin> /etc/resolv.conf contains the correct name servers, however dns simply won't resolve - the servers function correctly and return results if you specify the name server in a host query
23:30 < binyamin> sure - this has been happening for a few days now
23:31 < binyamin> thanks btw :)
23:32 <+perlDreamer> I think next we just need to find out what server it is trying to connect to
23:32 <+perlDreamer> and make sure it's okay
23:32 <+perlDreamer> then go on from there
23:34 < binyamin> I'm not sure what I could do with that if I can't resovle any hostnames the upgrade script or anything is attempting to use
23:34 <+perlDreamer> you need to resolve update.webgui.org
23:35 <+perlDreamer> will it resolve on the image?
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23:36 < binyamin> [root@webguidev sbin]# host update.webgui.org
23:36 < binyamin> ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
23:36 < binyamin> however
23:37 < binyamin> [root@webguidev sbin]# host update.webgui.org x.x.x.x
23:37 < binyamin> Using domain server:
23:37 < binyamin> Name: x.x.x.x
23:37 < binyamin> Address: x.x.x.x#53
23:37 < binyamin> Aliases:
23:37 < binyamin> update.webgui.org is an alias for frozen.plainblack.com.
23:37 < binyamin> frozen.plainblack.com has address 207.44.136.25
23:37 < binyamin> sorry cleaning the addressing
23:37 < binyamin> supose I could just manually fill the /etc/hosts with the names and addresses of the update servers
23:38 <+perlDreamer> and x.x.x.x is the same address in /etc/resolv.conf?
23:38 < binyamin> *nod
23:38 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r9264 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/Spectre.pm: 
23:38 < CIA-40> WebGUI: Qualify a chained method call when getting Workflow instances. If the
23:38 < CIA-40> WebGUI: workflow for an instance is ever deleted, then no existing instances after that
23:38 < CIA-40> WebGUI: instance will ever be sent to Spectre.
23:39 < binyamin> fsck me
23:40 <+perlDreamer> yeah, me too
23:40 <+perlDreamer> what's in the hosts file?
23:40 <+perlDreamer> oh, and please don't paste right into the channel
23:40 <+perlDreamer> you can use webgui.pastebin.com if you have  more then 2-3 lines of stuff
23:40 < binyamin> will do
23:41 < binyamin> nameserver blah.foo.foo.blah
23:41 < binyamin> nameserver blah.second.foo.blah
23:43 <+perlDreamer> that sounds more like resolv.conf
23:43 <+perlDreamer> what's in /etc/hosts
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23:44 < binyamin> I actually had a none related question regarding the wiki - it states during the automated update to change your enviroment to "source ./data/wre/sbin/setEnvironment.pl" - however in that dir there is only "setenviroment.sh" - assuming that's just a type-o
23:44 <+BartJol> mmm, I can't ping that host
23:44 <+BartJol> update.webgui.org that is
23:44 < binyamin> they allow icmp?
23:44 <+BartJol> it is .sh
23:45 < binyamin> just one statement for itself
23:45 < binyamin> in /etc/hosts
23:45 < binyamin> unrelated ip space
23:45 -!- steveo_aa [n=sno@76.226.227.108] has joined #WebGUI
23:45 <+perlDreamer> like 127.0.0.1?
23:46 <+BartJol> how do you know m ip?
23:46 <+perlDreamer> I can't ping either, but I can fetch the latest version number
23:46 < binyamin> 127.0.0.1  localhost.localdomain localhost
23:46 <+perlDreamer> okay
23:46 < binyamin> actually
23:46 < binyamin> I think it's just best I build a debian box for my dev
23:46 <+perlDreamer> would you please file a bug about this for us?
23:47 < binyamin> be on entirely familiar ground that way
23:47 <+perlDreamer> that way we make sure it gets fixed in the next release
23:47 < binyamin> yeah I can do that
23:47 <+perlDreamer> oh, and if you run into a guy in this channel named bernd_, he was working on building a debian VM image
23:47 <@Haarg> this is a problem on you are having using the vmware image we provide?
23:47 < binyamin> currently the vmware image is pretty out of date - is it something you guys want to keep up to date?
23:47 < binyamin> going foward rather
23:47 <+BartJol> but you have to be early, since he's european
23:48 <+perlDreamer> binyamin, the plan was that users run webguiupdate if they want the latest
23:48 <@Haarg> we're looking at ways to keep it more up to date
23:48 <+perlDreamer> unless they have DNS issues :(
23:48 <@Haarg> but it's pretty simple to upgrade so that isn't a priority
23:48 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, yes, this is on the VMware image
23:48 < binyamin> simple is good :)
23:49 < binyamin> thanks for the quick feedback guys, very nice
23:49 <+BartJol> just come to the wuc
23:49 <+perlDreamer> and post that bug :)
23:50 <@Haarg> the main issue is just that updating a multi-gigabyte file and hosting it is problematic
23:50 < binyamin> I entirely understand
23:50 < binyamin> i'm running a pair of esx clusters and working with 20+GB vmdk's, backing up offsite is a pita
23:52 < binyamin> fixed the wiki upgrade entry to contain the correct link to "source ./data/wre/sbin/setenvironment.sh" - I'll get on the bug in a tic
23:52 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, I could use a second opinion on a bug fix, do you have some time?
23:52 <@Haarg> sure
23:53 <+perlDreamer> this bug
23:53 <+perlDreamer> http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/9018
23:53 <+BartJol> oh perlDreamer I slightly changed your wiki entry on translation server installing
23:53 <+perlDreamer> That's cool, BartJol
23:53 <+BartJol> just a missning verb
23:54 <+perlDreamer> ah, verbs.  They always want to do stuff
23:54 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, I believe I found why it was stopping other instances from running.
23:54 <@Haarg> oh?
23:54 <+perlDreamer> when spectre calls getSpectreSiteData, it generates a list of existing instances.
23:55 <+perlDreamer> Since those are Workflow::Instances, they must have been left over from when Spectre was stopped
23:55 <+perlDreamer> if the workflow in an instance does not exist, then getSSD pukes
23:55 <+perlDreamer> and it won't send the whole list anymore
23:56 <@Haarg> seems like it could fail in a more friendly way
23:56 <+perlDreamer> that's what I fixed
23:56 <+perlDreamer> but there's still the problem of the original, broken Instance
23:57 <@Haarg> for the case listed in the bug
23:58 <@Haarg> it may be good to have an upgrade convert any of the instances of the realtime workflow that still exist to the standard workflow for commits
23:58 <+perlDreamer> we'd have to go back and change all the earlier, released tarballs?
23:58 <@Haarg> no
23:58 <@Haarg> just have a thing in the latest release
23:59 <@Haarg> that's likely a case we missed, because realtime workflows shouldn't stick around in the instance table anyway
23:59 <+perlDreamer> no, it would have to be something that got caught, or ran long and was waiting
--- Day changed Thu Jan 22 2009
00:00 <@Haarg> yeah
00:00 <@Haarg> but realtime weren't allowed to be waiting
00:00 <@Haarg> part of the reason they were eliminated
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00:11 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r9265 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/lib/WebGUI/Operation/Spectre.pm: Backporting getSpectreSiteData Workflow non-existant fix.
00:13 <+perlDreamer> the problem wasn't their type, the problem was that the workflow that there were an instance of were deleted
00:16 <+BartJol> mmm, getting to think that your perl is better than your english (just joking perlDreamer)
00:16 <+perlDreamer> undoubtedly
00:16 <+perlDreamer> brb
00:17 <@Haarg> yes, but the the reason they were left behind was likely because they had errored out
00:17 <@Haarg> and if a realtime commit took too long, it would just error out
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00:30 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, if that's so, then how do you get a realtime workflow stuck as an instance?
00:30 <+perlDreamer> just luck?
00:30 <@Haarg> i think if one ended up taking too long it would
00:31 <@Haarg> because the activity would return waiting, and the realtime workflow processing wouldn't be able to handle that
00:32 < steveo_aa> /who freenode/staff/*
00:32 < steveo_aa> bugger.  NickServ doesn't say how to retrieve a lost nick password.
00:33 < steveo_aa> I don't think it is lost, but freenode won't accept what I've given.
00:34 <+perlDreamer> Haarg: 7.5.10-7.5.11 did convert realtime's to pbworkflow0+3's
00:34 <@Haarg> instances as well?
00:34 <+perlDreamer> yes
00:34 <@Haarg> hmm
00:34 <@Haarg> not sure then
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00:42 <+perlDreamer> I was going to propose that the upgrade failed, but the subroutine that deletes the workflow happens after the one that changes workflow instances from realtime's to pbworkflow0000003's
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00:43 <+perlDreamer> elnino, were your ears burning?
00:44 < elnino> no, but now you menion it... I'm sure there are a bunch of people talking about me at work.. Are you guys talking about me too? What did I do?
00:45 < elnino> my marketing person wants to restore a bunch of stuff from the trash. She doesn't know how they got there, but is convinced they are what she wants. The urls of these items are meaningless and do not tell us anything of where they go. is there a way I can find out where they were from originally?
00:48 <+BartJol> well, maybe you still kan find revisions in the db
00:49 <+perlDreamer> elnino, from the parentId or the lineage, you can find the parent asset
00:49 < elnino> ok.. So why ARE my ears burning?
00:50 <+BartJol> all perlDreamer's dirty talk
00:50 < elnino> Great.
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00:50 <+perlDreamer> we were talking about your realtime workflow bug
00:51 <+perlDreamer> also, back to trash, if you click on the name of the asset it will take you to the asset manager, which will also show you where the asset came from
00:52 <+perlDreamer> this is the workflow bug: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/9018
00:52 <+perlDreamer> where realtime workflows were stopping your site from sending emails
00:52 <+BartJol> goodnight
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00:54 < elnino> ah!  perfect. She restored them anyway.. So now she wants to know how she can prevent so many things from going into the trash.. ??  What am I supposed to say?  "Don't click on the red x?"  
00:55 < elnino> she is the only one that does content management.
00:55 <+perlDreamer> if that's the case, then would it be in the version history who put them in the trash?
00:56 < elnino> From what I know, cuts and deletions aren't version taged!! 
00:57 <+perlDreamer> they aren't tagged, but they are in the version history
00:57 <@Haarg> the asset history rather
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00:58 <+perlDreamer> yeah, that too!
01:00 < elnino> really? I'll look.
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01:01 <@Haarg> select * from assetHistory where assetId='assetIdhere'
01:01 <@Haarg> you could filter it more than that of course
01:01 < elnino> oh lordy.   There was like 50 of them.. 
01:02 <+perlDreamer> select distinct(userId) from assetHistory where assetId in ('assetId1', .................);
01:02 <+perlDreamer> that would give you the users at the cost of 50 assetIds
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01:07 < elnino> I'll poke around.  but I'll ask her if she really wants me to prove if she did it first. =) I don't know who else it would have been, unless it's a security hole that was fixed. v 7.5.24. These particular assets were shortcuts.
01:08 <+perlDreamer> Good call.
01:10 < elnino> hmm. I do remember there being a image in the trash, that those shortcuts were shortcutting.
01:10 < elnino> did you guys change it so that when the "shortcutted" item is deleted, the shortcuts are too?
01:12 <@Haarg> yes
01:13 < elnino> YOU DID!?!?!?! YAY!!!  problem solved.  do you recall what version?
01:13 <@Haarg> it's done that for quite a long time afaik
01:14 < elnino> oh good. I remember submitting a bug about that before.. Thank you!
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01:36 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r9266 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): 
01:36 < CIA-40> WebGUI: Document the heretofore missing date template variable in
01:36 < CIA-40> WebGUI: the Syndicated Content item loop.
01:38 <+perlDreamer> shortcuts were fixed in 5145
01:38 <+perlDreamer> deleting shortcuts was fixed in 5145, that is
01:44 < elnino> ok.  thanks!
01:44 < elnino> another question. (quick)
01:44 < elnino> oh never mind. =)
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02:12  * perlDreamer goes running
02:15 < deafferret> again?
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02:56 < elnino> hello, I'm trying o locate the location of an asset. When I go to a short cut of it, and click on "manage" or revisions" or "edit" or copy" or anything, it goes to the uploads directory and shows me the image. I've tried appending manageassets to the url, and edit to the url, and it still displays the image, rather than letting me edit it.
02:56 < elnino> what is this an indcation of?
02:57 < elnino> is it an old url reference to the image? if so, when the work flow archives that url, what happens to the short cut?
02:58 < elnino> I have the asset id.. is there a url parameter that would allow me to edit it via id?
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02:58 < elnino> this probably makes no sense. =(
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03:20 < elnino> I'm trying to edit an image, by going directly to it via url:  /products/specifications/buy-now.jpg?op=assetManager
03:20 < elnino> sorry, I'm trying to locate the file in the asset manager by useing the url above.
03:21 < elnino> I've done a query for this asset in the assetData table, and that is the url it has, but when I try that url, it displays the image, and not the asset manager.
03:21 < elnino> I've tried every single url displayed for that assetid in the assetData table, with the same results.
03:22 < elnino> I just can not get to that image to edit it or even view it within the asset manger without being redirected to the image itself in the uploads directory.  I'm running out of ideas.
03:23 <@Haarg> you are using 7.5?
03:23 < elnino> yep.
03:23 < elnino> 7.5.24
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03:24 < elnino> I can view other images just fine, but this particlar one is shortcutted, and I'm trying to edit the shortcutted image.
03:24 <@Haarg> the ?op=assetManager as you put it should get you what you want, i'm not sure why it isn't working for you
03:24 < elnino> I know!! that's what's frustrating..
03:25 < elnino> I haven't looked at the logs, I thought by looking at the asset tables, something would jump out, but they havent. 
03:25 < elnino> I have to vpn to look at the logs.
03:25 < elnino> (and loose connection here)
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03:27 < elnino> btw, assethistory table is very interesting. Thanks for the tip. Its nice to know EVERYTHIG is logged and with such nice detail!
03:29 <@Haarg> another option is doing a search in the asset manager, that may find what you are looking for
03:31 < elnino> heh, yeah, that was the first thing I tried, I searched for buy-now.jpg, and got all the jpgs in the whole site, I think the number of pages was somethingn like 43
03:31 <@Haarg> you may just want to search for buy-now
03:32 < elnino> did that too.. with asset type image but I forgot what Igot with that.. Could it be because ithas a dash?
03:33 <@Haarg> the dash may be making it harder to search for yes
03:33 < elnino> yes, I got 4 pages, of images, because they are all located on a url that contains buy-now.  =)
03:33 < elnino> I did page thru those, and didn't see it.
03:34 < elnino> but I'll look again. This is just weird.
03:36 < elnino> tried file asset type too.'
03:36 < elnino> back to the tables,  is there a way to convert the date into something readable in the sql report?
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03:37 < elnino> I had no luck with the asset search, I'll see what happened with assethistory.
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04:19 -!- Radix-wrk changed the topic of #webgui to:  [ WebGUI 7.5.38-stable | 7.6.9-beta | WRE 0.8.5 ] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org | Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com/
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04:39 < CIA-40> WebGUI: graham * r9267 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (5 files in 4 dirs): use to_json and from_json in more places instead of encode_json and decode_json
04:39 < CIA-40> WebGUI: graham * r9268 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: HTTP Proxy doesn't serve new content to visitors
04:39 < CIA-40> WebGUI: graham * r9269 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetExportHtml.pm): fixed: Exporting to static files can leak large amounts of memory
04:39 < CIA-40> WebGUI: graham * r9270 /WebGUI/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.6.9 release
04:39 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r9271 /releases/WebGUI_7.6.9-beta: Release 7.6.9-beta
04:39 < CIA-40> WebGUI: graham * r9272 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): preparing for 7.6.10 dev
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06:53 < CIA-39> WebGUI: patspam * r9273 /branch/survey-rfe/ (61 files in 23 dirs): (log message trimmed)
06:53 < CIA-39> WebGUI: Merge commit WebGUI_7.6.9-beta into survey-rfe
06:53 < CIA-39> WebGUI: * commit 'tags/WebGUI_7.6.9-beta': (31 commits)
06:53 < CIA-39> WebGUI:  Release 7.6.9-beta
06:53 < CIA-39> WebGUI:  preparing for 7.6.9 release
06:53 < CIA-39> WebGUI:  fixed: Exporting to static files can leak large amounts of memory
06:53 < CIA-39> WebGUI:  fixed: HTTP Proxy doesn't serve new content to visitors
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07:21 < CIA-39> WebGUI: patspam * r9274 /Too many paths: (log message trimmed)
07:21 < CIA-39> WebGUI: Merge commit WebGUI_7.6.9-beta into yung-thingy-rfe
07:21 < CIA-39> WebGUI: * commit 'tags/WebGUI_7.6.9-beta': (223 commits)
07:21 < CIA-39> WebGUI:  Release 7.6.9-beta
07:21 < CIA-39> WebGUI:  preparing for 7.6.9 release
07:21 < CIA-39> WebGUI:  fixed: Exporting to static files can leak large amounts of memory
07:21 < CIA-39> WebGUI:  fixed: HTTP Proxy doesn't serve new content to visitors
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11:36 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r9275 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (3 files): Update from translation server
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16:33 < daviddelikat> Haarg
16:33 <@Haarg> hi
16:33 < daviddelikat> hi,
16:33 < daviddelikat>  do you know who is expert in HTTP::Parser?
16:33 < daviddelikat> make that HTML::Parser
16:34 <@Haarg> i'm not sure
16:34 <@Haarg> i haven't really used it myself
16:34 <@Haarg> rizen wrote the stuff in WebGUI that uses it afaik
16:34 < daviddelikat> I seem to have inflicted a bug on myself
16:34 <@Haarg> this the CS synopsis thing?
16:35 < daviddelikat> I'm trying to use it to get the first paragraph for synopsis
16:35 < daviddelikat> and it is going into a infinite loop
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16:35 < daviddelikat> I had it working using just a pattern ( /<p>...</p>/ ) but thats not a very robust solution
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17:45 <+BartJol> oh, I think that the new sitemenu of webgui.org it not very readable, contrastwise
17:46 <+BartJol> the idea is nice
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17:59 < ckotil> When did ldaps support arrive?
18:00 <+perlDreamer> several weeks ago
18:00 < ckotil> im running 7.5.32 and im wondering if it's built in
18:00 < ckotil> so pry not.
18:00 < ckotil> i remember hacking it in a while back before my last upgrade.
18:00 <+perlDreamer> I don't think so.  But an enterprising hacker could manually backport it from 7.6
18:01 < ckotil> good call
18:01 < ckotil> our ldap guru hacked it in. but i can pry do it by looking at the 7.6 code
18:19 < SDuensin> Morning.
18:38 <+perlDreamer> what's the API for grabbing the URL sent to apache, including the query fragment?
18:41 <@preaction> i think you have to get env->get("query_string")
18:41 <@preaction> er. session->env->get
18:43 <+perlDreamer> right
18:43 <+perlDreamer> thanks, preaction!
18:44 <@Haarg> it may be better to get that from the request object instead of the env variable
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18:48 <+perlDreamer> yeah, I had tried using ->uri, but it's been parsed
18:48 <+perlDreamer> so the secret is to use unparsed_uri
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19:36 < daviddelikat> anybody here good with HTML::Parse?
19:37 < daviddelikat> rizen, I heard you wrote what is already in WebGUI
19:38 <@preaction> depends on your question. i think that TokeParser might be easier
19:39 < daviddelikat> I'm trying to grab paragraphs out of some html text
19:39 < daviddelikat> seemed like it would be easy
19:40 <@rizen> daviddelikat: do you mean what's in WebGUI::HTML
19:40 < daviddelikat> heres my function http://webgui.pastebin.com/d34c70681
19:40 <@rizen> or do you mean all of webgui?
19:40 <@rizen> as far as me writing
19:40 <@rizen> and was it a comment or a question
19:40 <+perlDreamer> I used TokeParser for the tests that I wrote.
19:41 < daviddelikat> graham said that rizen wrote some HTML::Parser code for WebGUI
19:41 < daviddelikat> or so he thought?
19:41 <@rizen> I wrote the stuff in WebGUI::HTML which is some very basic parsing stuff
19:41 <@rizen> mainly for stripping HTML
19:42 <@rizen> just used regex for most of it
19:42 < daviddelikat> could you peek at the code I posted and let me know if anything jumps out at you?
19:42 <@rizen> i really don't have time sorry
19:42 < daviddelikat> perlDreamer: do you have time?
19:42 <+perlDreamer> on phone
19:42 <+perlDreamer> brb
19:43 < daviddelikat> ok, thanks rizen...
19:43 <@Haarg> daviddelikat, i think tokeparser may be a decent way to go, it'll probably be easier to work with
19:43 < daviddelikat> I'll have a look at it
19:46 <+perlDreamer> daviddelikat, there is some example TokeParser code in t/Macro/*.t
19:47 < daviddelikat> thanks
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20:33  * perlDreamer goes to the gym
20:40 < deafferret> again?
20:58 < CIA-39> WebGUI: yung * r9276 /WebGUI/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Adding hoverhelp to Survey Edit Section dialog
20:58 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r9277 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Rolling back rev 9142. The gallery is supposed to upscale graphics.
21:26 <@plainhao> any particular reason to set an individual webgui session user level, to 3 for example?
21:28 <@plainhao> nevermind, i thought it was userLevel, it's userId of 3
21:41 < jmarsden|work> WebGUI version numbering/naming: Right now there is a 7.6.9 beta.  Will there ever be a 7.6.9 stable?  In other words, is the "beta" or "stable" designation part of the version id, or not? (I'm hoping it is not)
21:44 <@Haarg> there will never be a 7.6.9 stable
21:45 <@Haarg> there is only ever one release with a given version number
21:46 < jmarsden|work> Thanks!
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22:06 <+perlDreamer> 3 times a week, deafferret
22:06 <+perlDreamer> In these lean times, we all must cut back
22:22 <+perlDreamer> actually, only twice a week.  I go running 3 times a week
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22:52 < deafferret> perlDreamer is dreamy  :)
23:12  * perlDreamer is often sweaty and tired.  Not very dreamy in appearance
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23:42 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r9278 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetClipboard.pm): Prevent redirects from happening when cutting images and files.
--- Day changed Fri Jan 23 2009
00:08 <@tavisto> perlDreamer, you getting ripped or something? You going to be as big as Bart next time I see you?
00:09 <+perlDreamer> I intend on bench pressing several developers, yes.  But I'll still be short and ugly.
00:09 <+perlDreamer> I mean, mean looking
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00:41 < deafferret> "rugged"
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01:45 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2: you might be able to glean some cost savings from this article http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2009/01/solar_energy_some_tips.html
01:45 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: yeah, read that.
01:46 <+perlDreamer> be a battery hacker
01:47 <@perlmonkey2> but even with solar at record lows, 10-12K for a 4kw system, that is really a 1kw system here, and only for 6 hours a day.  So $10K for 6kwh a day.  Or $5k for 24kwh a day with wind using the otherpower plans.  I'm a long ways from sold on solar.
01:47 <@perlmonkey2> but their advice on reclaiming dead batteries is a great idea.
01:47 <+perlDreamer> yeah, that's the meat of the article right there
01:49 -!- elnino [n=elnino@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #WEBGUI
01:50 < elnino> hi quick question
01:50 < elnino> Im editing an image...right now, and I see that you have it's dimensions.
01:50 < elnino> I'm also looking at the dbschema.. Is that stored anywhere?
01:50 < elnino> I see sizes for gallery, but not the image asset.
01:50 < elnino> I only see the thumbnail size for the image asset...
01:51 < elnino> so that must be calc'd on the fly?
01:51 <+perlDreamer> elnino: yes
01:52 < elnino> ok.. perfect. Thanks perlDreamer!!! Have a good night!
01:56 <+cap10morgan> has anyone ever used fun Perl tie'ing magic to turn WebGUI's errorHandler into a filehandle for passing off to some non-WebGUI code that wants to print it's debugging statements?
01:58 <+perlDreamer> Nope
01:58 <@Haarg> can't say that i have
01:58 <+cap10morgan> seem like a good or a great idea? ;)
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01:59 <+perlDreamer> It's not bad at all.
02:00 <@perlmonkey2> preaction: you around?
02:05 <@tavisto> elnino, got any good news for me? :)
02:05 <@tavisto> *tavisto does drumroll*
02:06 <@tavisto> *tavisto waves magic wand*
02:08 <@tavisto> *tavisto cues the orchestra for climactic music*
02:09 <@tavisto> *tavisto rolls out the red carpet for Comtrol*
02:10 <@tavisto> ....
02:10 <@perlmonkey2> preaction: well if you get this, the widget fix is probably done, just need to do some more testing, which I'll do tomorrow.
02:10 <@tavisto> *tavisto looks at watch*
02:11 <@tavisto> *tavisto whistles & taps foot*
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02:14 <@tavisto> *tavisto gives up for now and decides to go run a few miles on the treadmill* bbl
02:19 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r9279 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Paginator.pm): fixed: Paginator generates bad markup for next page links
02:19 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r9280 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (lib/WebGUI/AssetExportHtml.pm docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt): fixed: Exporting to static files can leak large amounts of memory
02:19 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r9281 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: HTTP Proxy doesn't serve new content to visitors
02:19 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r9282 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (21 files in 10 dirs): fixed: WebGUI doesn't handle UTF8 encoding on JSON consistently
02:19 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r9283 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Content/AssetManager.pm): fixed: Asset Manager can generate URLs that are too long
02:19 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r9284 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.5.39 release
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03:16 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r9285 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/lib/WebGUI/Paginator.pm: Paginator returns undef or url in array context.
03:16 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r9286 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Paginator.pm): Forward port Paginator markup fixes.
03:17  * perlDreamer steps out for some dinner.
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03:44 < CIA-39> WebGUI: meatbop * r9287 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/packages-7.6.10/root_import_matrix.wgpkg: New interface for the Matrix
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04:19 < Lisette> in a workflow i can get a value from a form?
04:20 <+perlDreamer> not really
04:20 <+perlDreamer> the session would have to be tied to the form somehow
04:21 <+perlDreamer> and it would depend on whether WebGUI or spectre launched the workflow
04:39 <+perlDreamer> they have the opera browser download rate limited to 10 KB/sec
04:39 <+perlDreamer> that's just nutz
04:41 <@rizen> actually workflow activities have www methods
04:42 < Lisette> actually in what version?
04:42 <@rizen> 7.5 certainly, but probably before that
04:42 < Lisette> i have 7.5, i to try
04:42 < Lisette> thanks
04:47 <@rizen> theres an example of how to do it in the dev guide
04:48 < Lisette> in the book?
04:48 <@rizen> yes
04:51 <+perlDreamer> son of a gun.  activityHelper
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06:27 < CIA-39> WebGUI: daviddelikat * r9288 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): 
06:27 < CIA-39> WebGUI: added a new function to WebGUI::HTML to parse html text and extract a list of elements based on a tag
06:27 < CIA-39> WebGUI: spec. used to extract paragraphs for the synopsis; convert FeedPP properties to scalar context so that
06:27 < CIA-39> WebGUI: blank fields are rendered properly.
06:32 <+perlDreamer> nice work, daviddelikat
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07:49 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r9289 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (i18n/English/Asset_Survey.pm Asset/Wobject/Survey.pm): i18n and hoverhelp for the definition
07:49 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r9290 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/Spectre.pm: Make the failed subnet log message clearer.
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08:44 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r9291 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Fix broken i18n.
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11:00 < DeepZero> anyone here ?
11:00 < SynQ> yups
11:00 < SynQ> but not actively following or responsive though :P
11:00 < DeepZero> i have a question, has to do with iframe breaking out and redirecting when i embed it
11:00 < DeepZero> you any good with javascript ?
11:00 < SynQ> not at all
11:00 < SynQ> I'm good with ls, du, w, ps, top and such
11:00 < DeepZero> its a tricky one
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17:25 < SDuensin> Howdy.
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17:33 <+perlDreamer> howdy, SDuensin
17:33 < SDuensin> Hey perlDreamer 
17:33 <+perlDreamer> how is your takeover of the world coming?
17:34 < SDuensin> Slow but sure.  Built myself a second LAN in the house to abuse.
17:34  * SDuensin thinks he might just put "Code Monkey" on loop all day.
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17:46 <@perlmonkey2> Ah, anyone know how to set the style properly, from a styleId?
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17:51 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2: what do you mean?
17:53 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: ah, I didn't think process was being called, but it looks like it is.  
17:53 -!- Haarg changed the topic of #webgui to:  [ WebGUI 7.5.39-stable | 7.6.9-beta | WRE 0.8.5 ] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org | Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com/
17:56 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: I'm working on the Widgets, but I'm not seeing where I could set the style.  Nothing seems to process the template.
17:56 <@perlmonkey2> macro::process just calls view which only adds the admin bar if turned on.
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18:01 <+perlDreamer> I see
18:04 <@perlmonkey2> hmm, so session->{_style} needs to be set to a style object, but I see no way in Style to set it to a particular style.
18:05 <+perlDreamer> setStyle?
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18:05 <@Haarg> session->{_style} is set to a WebGUI::Session::Style object
18:06 <@Haarg> as for which style template is used, it always depends on what the calling code wants
18:06 <@Haarg> it has to explicitly ask for a style template
18:06 <+perlDreamer> $session->style->process($output, $styleId)
18:07 <@perlmonkey2> So I need to pass the processed template to the style process method, with the desired styleId?
18:07 <+perlDreamer> yes
18:08 <+perlDreamer> $session->style->process('this stuff', 'wrapped in this templateId');
18:08 <@perlmonkey2> my $content = $self->view; $content = $session->style->process($content, $styleTemplateId); ?
18:09 <+perlDreamer> looks right
18:09 <@perlmonkey2> I would have thoguht view would have already of applied the style?  
18:09 <+perlDreamer> no, view may be called as a child of another asset
18:11 <@Haarg> assetproxy for example calls view on assets - you wouldn't want it to return stuff wrapped in a style template
18:11 <@Haarg> or pulling each individual asset into a page layout
18:11 <@perlmonkey2> that makes sense.
18:12 <@perlmonkey2> Which is why the widgets aren't getting any style information at all, thus this bug.
18:16 <+perlDreamer> will the Apache request object return non-unique parameter names?
18:17 <+perlDreamer> There's a loop over the params in Session/Form that's just there to make things unique
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18:19 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: so if you name a form object 'a1' and later on resuse 'a1', will Apache give you two a1's, in an array?  good question.  Which would be first?
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18:20 <+perlDreamer> no clue
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18:21 <+perlDreamer> but surely List::MoreUtils::uniq would be faster
18:29 <@Haarg> i'm not sure if it will return the same thing multiple times, but it would probably be faster to get the hashref and use keys
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18:31 <+perlDreamer> I'll do that
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18:58 < topsub> I have added a collab system in webgui  ( 7.5.36 ) and when i post threads i can't reply to the tread. I am using the default template. Do i have some setting wrong?
18:58 <@Haarg> what prevents you from replying?
18:58 <@Haarg> no link?  error?
18:58 < topsub> not sure i am seeing nothing on the page
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18:58 < topsub> i see what i posted
18:58 < topsub> but no links to reply or anything
18:59 < topsub> I see edit / delete
18:59 <+perlDreamer