--- Log opened Sat Nov 01 00:00:19 2008
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04:03 < elnino> I have two sites on a single installation of webgui. Any idea why captcha would appear in one and not the other? I thought maybe it was my site design, but "verify your humanity" isn't seen in the underlying html...
04:05 < elnino> oh. the versions are stuck..
04:11 < elnino> hmm. well, that's not true really. THose are from 9/22
04:11 < elnino> I made the changes today and those version tags went thru correctly as far as I can tell.
04:24 < elnino> It's funny. I don't see the captcha, but when I submit the form, it says that it was entered incorrectly. even though there is no html code for the captcha field on the page.
04:55 < elnino> I even tried makeing a package of the form that has the captcha and tried importing it into my other site, and it wouldn't import. This site must be hosted. but I'm not getting any error messages. Im watching webgui.log with tail -f
05:03 < elnino> s/hosted/hosed
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05:37 < elnino> hi I have two sites ona single installation of webgui. Site A has captcha, site B doesn't not. But Site B has it configured. I thought maybe there was a flaw in the deisgn, but there is nothing in the html showing that it's there.  
05:38 < elnino> when I submit the form, it complains that I didn't enter the right word for captcha. 
05:38 < elnino> I even tried making a package from site A and importing it to site b, and I couldn't even import the package.. and there were no errors in webgui.log . 
05:38 < elnino> Help? Any ideas what to look at?
05:39 < elnino> I have 7.5.24
05:40 < elnino> both sites areon the same ip address. does that have anything to do with it?
05:41 < elnino> I see that captcha uses scratch variables.
05:41 <@Haarg> captcha on what?
05:41 < elnino> a data form asset
05:44 < elnino> I'm even makeing sure that i'm a visitor. Cause I know it doesn't display if I'm a registered user.
05:44 < elnino> I'm sure it's somethign dumb, but it's got me stumped.
05:51 < elnino> btw, what is the default time that queued emails are sent?
05:51 < elnino> never mind, found it in scheduler.
05:54 <@Haarg> have you checked the template?
05:54 <@Haarg> the captcha is a separate template variable
05:55 < elnino> well. both are using the smae template by name, but I didn't look at the actuall code. Good idea. Letme look.
05:59 < elnino> you got it!  Thanks! I'll have to remember that!
06:01 < elnino> Thanks Haarg - I'm now going to sleep well. 
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03:16 < CIA-6> WebGUI: translation * r8232 /translations/German/German/Asset_SQLReport.pm: Update from translation server
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22:16 < knowmad> Is anyone tuned in today?
22:17 < knowmad> That's pretty much what i figured for a Sunday...
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22:36 <@Haarg> i'm around for a little
22:52 < knowmad> hey haarg, you still around?
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07:50 < elnino> hey! recently discovered the style wizard thingy...  Is there a way to setup some different layouts for the wizard? - didi I miss that chapter in th edeveloper's book?
07:55 < elnino> The other question I have is, can I setup multiple roots, each being a different subdomain? - is that a redirect in the modproxy?
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17:25 <@perlmonkey2> Anyone else notice that the RFE 'submitted by' sort doesn't really work?
17:27 < BartJo1> perlmonkey2: seems you're right
17:28 <@perlmonkey2> probably sorting on id or something.
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17:33 < BartJo1> prolly
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17:34 < SDuensin> Greetings.
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17:34 < BartJo1> hi
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17:58 <@perlmonkey2> If you remove an activity from a site config file, that activity will no longer be ran when the workflow is, right?  And when the site is upgraded, that activity won't be magically readded?
17:58 < BartJo1> no, I think not
17:59 < BartJo1> the new config isn't copied over the old one
17:59 < BartJo1> but if it's called you will get errors in your llog I think
18:00 < BartJo1> if it's included in the hourly
18:00 < BartJo1> or something like that
18:00 < BartJo1> can't you remove it from the workflow?
18:01 < BartJo1> then, you don't have to disable it
18:01 < BartJo1> sounds like a kill -9 where a kill works too
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18:54 <@rizen> perlmonkey2: the listing in the config is only for the workflow activities available to be added to workflows
18:54 <@rizen> removing it from the config will NOT stop it from being run
18:54 <@rizen> you actually have to remove it from any workflows it's part of to do that
18:56 <@perlmonkey2> rizen: okay, that makes a lot more sense.
18:57 <+perlDreamer> wow
18:57 <+perlDreamer> knowmad has a good headshot
18:59 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8233 /branch/frank: WebGUI branch for frank to develop WebGUI features to be added to WebGUI once they've been tested
18:59 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8234 /experimental/HelpDesk/lib/WebGUI/Asset/ (Ticket.pm Wobject/HelpDesk.pm): HelpDesk assets and Tickets can now be properly purged from WebGUI
18:59 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8235 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Exception.pm: Fixed a grammar error in an error messaage
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19:39 <@rizen> perlDreamer: i know you asked for 1000 pictures. here's a start: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=66383&id=565308834&ref=share
19:39 <@rizen> somebody else's pics
19:39 <@rizen> i'll post mine this week sometime
19:39 < SDuensin> Hey rizen 
19:40 <@rizen> hey sd
19:41 < SDuensin> WebGUI needs to do SMTP/IMAP.  I hate setting up mail servers.  
19:41 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8236 /branch/frank/lib/WebGUI/ (15 files in 6 dirs): initial commit
19:41 <@rizen> you mean it needs to be an SMTP server?
19:42 <@rizen> rather than use an SMTP server?
19:42 < SDuensin> I mean it needs to be everything I need in one nice box.
19:42 < SDuensin> Yep.  Part of my "Project Lazy".
19:42 < SDuensin> Seriously.  At this point, I think it'd be easier to write my own mail server than learn to configure one.  :-)
19:43 <@rizen> no it wouldn't SD
19:43 <@rizen> i guarantee you tha
19:44 <@rizen> that
19:44 <@rizen> if you don't want to configure one, you should just host with PB
19:44 < SDuensin> Says you.  Written one before.  Wasn't that hard.  
19:44 <@rizen> we provide all that for you
19:44 < SDuensin> PB won't do all the psycho stuff I want to do.
19:44 <@rizen> writing one that handles everything that it needs to handle, isn't easy
19:44 < SDuensin> Ah, but see, that's the catch!  It only needs to handle what *I* want.  :-)
19:44 <@rizen> sure just doing straight routing isn't that hard, but there are about 1000 RFC's you need to implement to be a real SMTP server
19:47 < SDuensin> Yea, yea, yea.  Take all the fun out of it.
19:49 <+perlDreamer> rizen, that page requires a facebook login
19:49 <@rizen> i viewed it without logging in
19:50 <@rizen> try clicking this link first: http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=565308834&k=X41T356XV36M5D1GRKZTRU
19:50 <@rizen> maybe that gives you a session or something
19:51 <+perlDreamer> yeah, that's better.
19:51 <+perlDreamer> What's the small fuzzy that Gilligan has?
19:52 <@rizen> it's my rat
19:52 <@rizen> a fake rat
19:52 <@rizen> but it's part of the halloween decor at casa smith
19:53 <+perlDreamer> nice costume, dude
19:53 <+perlDreamer> $dayJob is exacting revenge for all that idle time
19:54 <+perlDreamer> I haven't had time to do any wG work for weeks
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20:10 <@rizen> that sucks PD
20:11 <@rizen> SDuensin: your RFE is unjustified and without merit
20:11 <@rizen> and your mommy dresses you funny
20:12 < SDuensin> It's justified and you dress yourself funny.
20:12 < SDuensin> I didn't see a "Request for fixing annoying things" so I filed an RFE.
20:13 <@rizen> It's only annoying because you are trying to deprive advertisers of their cash
20:13 <@rizen> and if you are
20:13 <@rizen> then you shouldn't use the WebGUI advertising feature either. =)
20:14 < SDuensin> I'm the advertiser.  Maybe I'm trying to prevent invalid impressions?  Hmmmm?  :-P
20:14 <@rizen> If you're an advertiser why are you using an ad blocker?
20:14 <@rizen> do you live in bizarro world?
20:15 < SDuensin> What do you think?  :-D
20:15 <@rizen> I'm going to reject your RFE based upon this conversation.
20:15 < SDuensin> hehehe
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20:24 < CIA-6> WebGUI: doug * r8237 /WebGUI/etc/WebGUI.conf.original: added DataTable to WebGUI.conf.original
20:24 < CIA-6> WebGUI: doug * r8238 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/DataTable.pm: some bugfixes. less reliance on pre-prepared form control
20:24 < CIA-6> WebGUI: doug * r8239 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Form/DataTable.pm: 
20:24 < CIA-6> WebGUI: fixes to DataTable form control
20:24 < CIA-6> WebGUI: removed stupid configuration and added some necessary ones
20:25 < CIA-6> WebGUI: doug * r8240 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Form/DataTable.pm: perltidy
20:25 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8241 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: not allowed to add calendar events if in can edit group but not can add event group
20:25 < CIA-6> WebGUI: doug * r8242 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/DataTable.pm: perltidy
20:25 < CIA-6> WebGUI: doug * r8243 /WebGUI/ (sbin/installClass.pl lib/WebGUI/AssetAspect/Installable.pm): added Installable aspect and a script to install classes
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21:09 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8244 /branch/frank/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.6.1-7.6.2.pl: resetdev installs account system
21:09 < CIA-6> WebGUI: doug * r8245 /WebGUI/ (sbin/installClass.pl lib/WebGUI/AssetAspect/Installable.pm): perltidy
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22:12 <@perlmonkey2> What about a rss asset that had plugins for all appropriate assets to grab rss entries from.  This asset would contain feeds and feeds would be groups of asset URLS from which to get the RSS data form.  You would get the rss feed by going to the rssAsset&feed=TheCoolFeed 
22:13 < apeiron> perlmonkey2, So it'd basically be a planet implementation for one site?
22:14 <@perlmonkey2> apeiron: yes.  This way, no matter how many feeds or assets you are grabbing from, you only have one asset instance added.
22:15 < apeiron> perlmonkey2, Sounds interesting. Now the important question: why?
22:15 <@rizen> why ask why, drink bud dry
22:16 <@perlmonkey2> apeiron: an easy way to do rss feeds
22:16 <@perlmonkey2> most of the rss logic can be stored in a single asset, so no duplication of the rss generation or feed auth.
22:17 <@perlmonkey2> else each asset would have to know rss.
22:17 <@preaction> why not an Aspect?
22:17 <@perlmonkey2> let me read up on Aspects :D
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22:34 < topsub> i am in WebGUI 7.4.8 and how can i send an message to anotehr user? when i go to inbox i don't have the option to send an inbox message.
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22:40 < Bernd_> Are Aspects in WebGUI related to the Aspect module on CPAN?
22:44 < Bernd_> Or is there another good starting point?
22:44 < Bernd_> I mean, for reading.
22:46 <@preaction> Class::C3 and WebGUI::AssetAspect
22:47 < Bernd_> Thanks!
22:48 <@preaction> the WebGUI::AssetAspect::Installable is a simple one, if you want an example
22:49 < Bernd_> I am going to have a look at it!
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--- Log closed Mon Nov 03 23:09:14 2008
--- Log opened Mon Nov 03 23:14:17 2008
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23:51 < CIA-6> WebGUI: jt * r8246 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Crud.pm: allow updates via form post
23:53 <@rizen> Don't listen to preaction, WebGUI::AssetAspect::Comments is the only aspect worth looking at
23:53 <@rizen> preaction, we're going to have to have an Aspect-off
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23:59 <@preaction> Comments is bigger, more awesome, and more complex, and so harder to see what's happening
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23:59 <@preaction> on the other hand, Comments has an implementing class (Wiki)
23:59 <@preaction> hm...
--- Day changed Tue Nov 04 2008
00:02 <@rizen> Actually, I was thinking more of a contest to see who can build the cooler aspect
00:03 <@rizen> though, i've already come up with about 100 features to add to the comment aspect
00:08 <@perlmonkey2> preaction: can you explain the AssetAspect::Comments::get comments call?  $self->next::method('comments')  Is the next::method sending the call back to the object using the aspect?
00:09 <@preaction> perlmonkey2, check the Class::C3 docs for what next::method does
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00:11 < slickware> hey, Jamie, you still in here?
00:14 <@perlmonkey2> preaction: so next would send the call to the next inherited class, Asset.  But Asset doesn't have a 'comments' method.
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00:15 <@preaction> perlmonkey2, it detects that and doesn't cause an error
00:15 <@preaction> at least, i hope
00:15 <@perlmonkey2> reading Class::C3 I think it might
00:15 <@perlmonkey2> If next::method cannot find a next method to re-dispatch the call to, it will throw an exception.
00:16 <@preaction> dunno, JT wrote that aspect
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00:17 <@rizen> perlmonkey2: can you point me to the line number or method name that you're talking about?
00:17 <@perlmonkey2> preaction: yeah, I'm not getting something because that method is called with that param.
00:17 <@perlmonkey2> rizen: sub get in AssetApect::Comments
00:17 <@perlmonkey2> line 217
00:18 <@rizen> yeah, it's not calling a method called "comments"
00:18 <@rizen> it's passing the string "comments" to get()
00:18 <@rizen> in SUPER::
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00:18 <@rizen> it's the same as saying
00:18 <@rizen> $self->SUPER::get('comments')
00:18 <@perlmonkey2> so $self->next::method passes the params to the super of whatever method it is in?
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00:18 <@perlmonkey2> that is craaaazy
00:19 <@rizen> next::method is very similar to SUPER except that instead of calling vertically
00:19 <@rizen> it calls horizontally and then vertically
00:19 <@perlmonkey2> hmm, now the example code in perldoc makes sense
00:20 <@rizen> aspects (in WebGUI) are multiple-inheritance
00:20 <@rizen> and therefore can be a bit confusing
00:20 <@perlmonkey2> yeah, I think I understand enough to really screw something up now :D
00:22 <@perlmonkey2> rizen: but I'm still not entirely sure rss feeds should be aspects tacked onto existing classes.  Single class with plugins to existing assets, or change existing assets to use an aspect?
00:22 <@rizen> once we get a nice stable of asset aspects built, we should be able to throw together absolutely amazing assets in very little time...just because of the power aspects give us
00:22 <@preaction> the RSS Aspect is already planned
00:23 <@perlmonkey2> rizen: heh, that has been the promise of OOP since its inception.  I'm still waiting for it.
00:23 <@rizen> perlmonkey2: did you read my dev mailing list post about the death of the collaboration system?
00:24 <@rizen> webgui asset aspects will bring it about
00:24 <@perlmonkey2> yes
00:24 <+perlDreamer> Death to the CS!
00:24 <@rizen> let's say we wanted to keep the collaboration system, but we just wanted to "aspectize" it
00:25 <@rizen> WebGUI::Asset::Post would be entirely replaced by the Comments aspect
00:25 <@perlmonkey2> I can see them doing that.  And it does seem much sexier to instead of having big heavy Blog asset, having a small light Blog asset that aspects almost all of its functionality.
00:25 <@rizen> The comments aspect would just be added to Thread
00:25 <@rizen> CS would get the RSS aspect
00:25 <@rizen> both CS and Thread would get the Subscribable aspect
00:25 <@perlmonkey2> oh man, when you talk like that I get all excited.
00:25 <@rizen> thusly replacing about 400 lines of code in each
00:26 <@perlmonkey2> seems like the most important part (of many important parts) is all assets start behaving much more alike.
00:26 <@rizen> CS and Thread would both get ReplyViaEmail aspect, allowing emails to come in and post to them
00:26 <@perlmonkey2> similiar functionality will *feel* the same, because it is the sam.e
00:27 <@rizen> that's a big part of it
00:27 <@rizen> the thing is that whole objects often aren't as reusable as their parts
00:27 <@rizen> and that's where aspects come into play
00:28 <@perlmonkey2> wow....yeah, I can see how cool this is going to be.
00:29 <@rizen> it's going to take some time, but once we have the stable of aspects...webgui assets can and will become a lot more uniform, tested and therefore stable, and easier to build
00:30 <@rizen> we owe most of this to preaction, who lit a fire under my ass to finally start pushing aspects (cuz he's been pushing the concept for about a year now)
00:31 <@perlmonkey2> should make it easier to move more logic to the client side.  Adding ajax hooks will be a lot simpler.
00:31 <@rizen> will it?
00:31 <@rizen> i don' t know about that
00:31 <@rizen> certainly some reusable ajax hooks
00:31 <@rizen> but in general, i think most ajax stuff will be just as it is now
00:33 <@rizen> WebGUI::Crud is in the same vein though
00:33 <@rizen> it's not an aspect
00:33 <@rizen> but it makes it much easier to build collateral for assets
00:34 <@rizen> and because all collateral will be from a standard base (WebGUI::Crud), all collateral will be more uniform, tested and therefore stable
00:34 <@rizen> i've already built 6 objects on WebGUI::Crud, and it has saved me hours of time because i fix a problem in one place and it fixes it in all 6 objects
00:34 <@perlmonkey2> nice
00:35 <@rizen> not to mention the test suite keeps me informed of how the changes I make to crud impact things
00:36 <@perlmonkey2> wow crud has really changed since I last looked at it.  It is huge
00:36 <@rizen> has it?
00:37 <@perlmonkey2> yes, it was just a few methods last I looked at it.  Now its 942 lines of code with some very interesting helpers
00:38 <@perlmonkey2> updateTable?  Come on, that is just slick.
00:39 <@rizen> the only thing i don't like about the WebGUI::Crud implementation so far is the join clause in the getAll methods
00:39 <@rizen> i think i'm going to remove that
00:39 <@rizen> updateTable wasn't there when you last looked at it? man i thought that was there in the very first implementation
00:40 <@perlmonkey2> maybe I missed it.
00:41 <@perlmonkey2> don't know how as it is kind of the heart of the thing
00:45 <@perlmonkey2> rizen: you dont' like the joins?  Why not?
00:46 <@rizen> i don't like that you can throw raw SQL into the joins
00:46 <@rizen> it allows for sloppiness
00:46 <@rizen> mainly in field quoting
00:46 <@rizen> i like joinUsing
00:46 <@rizen> just not join
00:47 <@rizen> i have a similar problem with the where clause
00:47 <@perlmonkey2> hmm, change the syntax of join then?
00:47 <@rizen> i really like where "fieldname = ?", $value
00:47 <@rizen> like i have it now
00:47 <@rizen> but i wish i had a way to auto-quote the field name
00:48 <@rizen> i don't mind having raw SQL in a class like this
00:48 <@rizen> i just want to be able to make it as automatic and as safe as possible
00:48 <+perlDreamer> $session->db->quoteIdentifier
00:49 <@perlmonkey2> I keep running in circles in my head trying to think how abstract that and DBIx::Class et al is what comes to mind.
00:49 <@perlmonkey2> which is way too slow
00:49 <@rizen> perlDreamer i know about that and use it
00:49 <@rizen> but you can't do 
00:50 <@rizen> quoteIdenetifier("fieldname = ?"
00:50 <+perlDreamer> s/(\S+)(\s*=)/$db->quoteIdentifier($1).$2/eg;
00:50 <@perlmonkey2> hahha
00:50 <@rizen> nope
00:50 <@rizen> because they can do 
00:50 <@preaction> fieldname=
00:51 <+perlDreamer> I _did_ say \s* in there
00:51 <@rizen> fieldname >= this or fieldname < that or fieldname in ('this', 'foo', 'bar')
00:51 <+perlDreamer> the '>
00:51 <+perlDreamer> character won't match
00:51 <@preaction> (\S+)\b(\s*(?:=|>|<|...))
00:52 <@preaction> i hate it
00:52 <@preaction> SQL::Abstract!
00:52 <+perlDreamer> preaction, \b is the boundary between \S and \s
00:52 <@preaction> ah
00:52 <@preaction> don't need that then
00:53 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: so why won't what you have work for sanitizing?
00:53 <@preaction> or Parse::BooleanQuery maybe?
00:53 <+perlDreamer> preaction, a more general purpose solution will always be better than my regexp-of-the-day
00:54 <@rizen> folks you can stop, the answer IS NOT parsing
00:54 <@perlmonkey2> well, there are only so many possible cases.  a short parse tree could be created.
00:54 <@rizen> we either leave it raw SQL or we make a usable interface to pass in a usable datastructure
00:54 <@rizen> my goal IS NOT to rebuild DBIx::Class
00:54 <@rizen> RoseDB
00:55 <@rizen> or any of the other bs that's out there on CPAN that's both hard to use and slow
00:56 <@rizen> for now we'll leave it as is, and if we figure out a better way to do it, we'll deprecate the current mechanism and remove it in WebGUI 8
00:56 <@perlmonkey2> the join syntax can be narrowed down to a single case
00:57 <@perlmonkey2> just allow left joins
00:57 <@rizen> are you saying just allow left joins with single equality?
00:57 <@perlmonkey2> hmm, but there are a ton of conditionals
00:57 <@rizen> cuz i already only allow left joins
00:58 <@rizen> it's the equality issue that is a problem
00:58 <@perlmonkey2> yeah, just realized that
00:58 <@perlmonkey2> and there are quite a few possible conditionals.
00:58 <@rizen> i could very easily say tablename, fieldInTable, fieldInCrud
00:58 <@rizen> and we have a nice usable datastructure
00:58 <@rizen> that would build
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00:59 <@rizen> left join tablename on tablename.fieldIntable = crudtable.fieldInCrud
00:59 <@rizen> i'm just not sure if that's good enough for our uses
01:04 <@rizen> preaction; for the record, these are the same issues i have with the joinClass and other related options in getLineage
01:04 <@rizen> there's a lot of sanity problems
01:04 <@rizen> quoting, table prefixing, etc
01:04 <@rizen> and in getLineage it's even worse because you also have to account for versioning
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02:14 < lelelele> is it difficult to use this CMS if I don't know Perl? I know only PHP.
02:16 < SDuensin> Not at all.
02:19 <+perlDreamer> To _use_ WebGUI, you don't really have to know perl at all
02:19 <+perlDreamer> Just the language for the templates
02:19 <+perlDreamer> and macros
02:20 < SDuensin> Yep.  Since the WRE hit the scene, it's become MUCH easier!
02:25 < patspam> rizen: I started using crud for something yesterday :)
02:26 <@rizen> oh yeah? and how did you find it to work?
02:26 < patspam> so far so good!
02:26 < SDuensin> Crud?  Like database CRUD?
02:26 <@rizen> i've been using it for a couple weeks now on a special pb project
02:26 <@rizen> have 6 objects created so far
02:26  * SDuensin is trying to learn Thingy.
02:27 <@rizen> thingy should eventually use crud
02:27 < SDuensin> WTF is crud?
02:27 <@rizen> WebGUI::Crud
02:27 <@rizen> is a new thing in 7.6
02:27 < patspam> cool. the only thing I've noticed so far that felt like it was missing was the ability to flag fields as required in definition()
02:27 <@rizen> that allows you to build database backed WebGUI objects
02:28 < SDuensin> Can you link and stuff like Thingy?
02:28 <@rizen> SD: it's a programmer's tool, not a UI tool
02:28  * SDuensin is using 7.5.x, but could be convinced to go bleeding edge.  :-)
02:28 < SDuensin> Doh.
02:28 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin, think more of a generic object base class that handles db interactions
02:28  * SDuensin is a programmer, but he's kinda busy and can't learn WebGUI's API just yet.
02:28 <+perlDreamer> rizen, I need to borrow $600,000 US.
02:28 <@rizen> Thingy's backend should eventually use WebGUI::Crud
02:28 < SDuensin> Cool.
02:28 < SDuensin> Sounds very spiffy.
02:29 <@rizen> perlDreamer: uh....
02:29 <@rizen> patspam: that's not a bad idea
02:31 < patspam> rizen: love how much boiler-plate code i didn't have to write. crud++
02:32 <+perlDreamer> rizen, okay, how about just $500,000 and I'll give you free rides?
02:32 <@rizen> buying a helicopter pd?
02:32 <@rizen> or a train?
02:32 <+perlDreamer> No, a used steam engine
02:32 <+perlDreamer> :)
02:32 < SDuensin> Uh?
02:32 <@rizen> how about this, i'll lend you $6, then you just need 100,000 other people to do the same thing. =)
02:33 <+perlDreamer> hm.  Just let me make a quick commit to the PayDriver code
02:33 <+perlDreamer> that should fix it
02:34 <@rizen> patspam: yeah, it's saving me an absolute ton of code too...but more importantly, as i've been building these objects it's giving me ideas for additional methods in WebGUI::Crud
02:34 <@rizen> like the $self->updateFromFormPost() method I added today
02:35 < SDuensin> Crap.  I lost the Things I built.  Wonder what I did?
02:37 <@rizen> SD: that big button that says "DELETE" don't hit that next time
02:37 < SDuensin> I think I somehow had a version tag with no Things in the Thingy and committed that on top the one I was working on.
02:37 < SDuensin> I think.
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02:42 < SDuensin> Interesting.  My missing Things are in the Default Thing dropdown in my empty Thingy.
02:43 < BartJol> so missing is actually misplaced?
02:43 < SDuensin> Seems that way.  Connecting to MySQL now to poke around.
02:44 < BartJol> how does Thingy show it's empty?
02:45 < SDuensin> Well, before when I went to the page with the Thingy on it, it listed my Things.  Now I just have "Add Thing".
02:47 < lelelele> how does it supports GUI?
02:47 < lelelele> I mean in website or has windows app for it?
02:48 < SDuensin> Interesting.  I have two Thingy entries in the database that are the same except for the revision date.  That's probably not right.
02:48 <@rizen> lelelele: it's a web app. go to http://demo.webgui.org
02:48 <@rizen> create a demo
02:48 <@rizen> then click on the getting started page
02:48 < BartJol> mmm, my server doesn't produce a page, nrestarting services
02:49 < BartJol> if it has done that, I'll try to reproduce SDuensin, I', running 7.6.1
02:50 < SDuensin> Would a dump of my Thingy related tables help?
02:50 < BartJol> restarting takes awfully long....
02:52 < BartJol> mmm, mysql can't connect
02:52 < BartJol> SDuensin: I don't know, it doesn't harm
02:53 < BartJol> but now I've got mu own problems
02:53 < BartJol> ...
02:54 < SDuensin> :-(
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02:56 < SDuensin> Well, BartJol, if you want the dump, lemme know how you want it sent.  It's not super-urgent or anything.
02:57 < BartJol> ok
02:57  * SDuensin is just hoping to use Thingy to help rule the world.
02:57 < BartJol> mysql.sock is missing
02:57 < BartJol> so I'll try to start or restart
02:58 < SDuensin> Be sure an /etc/mysql/my.cnf didn't slip in.   Dang updates.
02:59 < BartJol> I seem to have a clean server
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02:59 < BartJol> so no other mysql
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03:06 < lelelele> I dont see any GUI.
03:06 < lelelele> Only a movie.
03:06 < lelelele> Simple menubar in that movie. Simple CMS, dunno where GUI is here?
03:06 <@rizen> lelelele: that movie is telling you how to see a gooey
03:06 <@rizen> GUI
03:07 < lelelele> I thought it will be javascript.
03:07 <@rizen> in your demo
03:07 <@rizen> log in
03:07 < lelelele> just to make feel of GUI in browser.
03:07 <@rizen> using admin 123qwe
03:07 < lelelele> 0k
03:07 <@rizen> then click the "turn admin on" link
03:07 <@rizen> the movie tells you to do exactly that
03:07 <@rizen> and yes, the GUI is javascript
03:07 < lelelele> ok
03:07 < lelelele> I am not so smart
03:07 < lelelele> to see the movie for getting the pass.
03:08 < lelelele> Would be easier to write on 5em those config infos
03:08 < lelelele> :)
03:08 < lelelele> for me as I dont like flash :)
03:08 <@rizen> not possible
03:08 <@rizen> you set the username and password wehn you create your demo
03:08 <@rizen> if you leave it to the default it is then admin 123qwe
03:08 < lelelele> so how you know my ones?
03:08 < lelelele> 0k
03:08 <@rizen> i'm guessing you left the default
03:09 <@rizen> but i can't predict that everyone will do that
03:09 < lelelele> duuno
03:09 < lelelele> I am logged in .
03:09 <@rizen> click the "turn admin on" link
03:10 < lelelele> huh?
03:10 <@rizen> you said you are logged in
03:10 <@rizen> are you?
03:10 < lelelele> actually I am not sorry.
03:10 < lelelele> admin 123qwe ?
03:11 <@rizen> if you left the defaults
03:11 <@rizen> then yes that's the username and password
03:11 < lelelele> Cause there are no info about that. Dunno how people know that it is default.
03:11 < BartJol> it is quite findasble on the site
03:11 <@rizen> ok lelelele let's start from scratch because i don't think you were paying attention when you created your demo
03:11 < lelelele> what you mean about default? Design part? No, I uploaded photo for logo, and changed color.
03:11 <@rizen> i'll give you step by step directions
03:11 < lelelele> 0k
03:11 <@rizen> don't derivate even a little bit
03:11 < lelelele> 0k
03:11 <@rizen> do exactly what i say
03:11 < lelelele> 0k
03:12 <@rizen> 1) go to http://demo.webgui.org
03:12 <@rizen> 2) click "Create my personal webgui demo"
03:12 < lelelele> rizen : I am logged in
03:12 < lelelele> used your pass 
03:12 < lelelele> I turned admin 0n.
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03:13 < BartJol> while restarting mysql, a new socket should be created, right?
03:14 <@rizen> yes bartjol
03:14 < BartJol> mmm, something is awfully wrong then
03:15 <@rizen> is there anything in your /data/wre/var/mysqldata/servernamegoeshere.err file?
03:15 <@rizen> it usually tells you what's wrong
03:15 < lelelele> rizen : works fine
03:15 < lelelele> did you do this CMS?
03:15 < BartJol> 081104  2:15:26 [Warning] option 'max_join_size': unsigned value 18446744073709551615 adjusted to 4294967295
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03:16 <@rizen> lelelele: yes, i founded it, but many people have worked on it since then
03:16 <@rizen> BartJol: warnings don't count usually
03:16 <@rizen> BartJol: look for serious stuff
03:16 < SDuensin> BartJol - If you check the cnf, it's set to 4294967295.  Go figure.
03:16 < lelelele> rizen: whas is the date of foundation, I want to count birthdays of WebGUI since that date.
03:16 < lelelele> maybe you remember exact day?
03:17 <@rizen> webgui is 7 years old
03:17 < lelelele> wow
03:17 <@rizen> i started development on it in June 2001
03:17 < lelelele> I thought it was new.
03:17 <@rizen> and it's first release to the public is August 16, 2001
03:17 < lelelele> nice. So why such small community?
03:17 <@rizen> it's not a small community
03:17 < BartJol> ah, can't create a PID file
03:17 < lelelele> 26
03:17 < lelelele> ...
03:17 < SDuensin> It's "small" because it doesn't run on $5 web hosts.
03:17 <@rizen> there are more than 10,000 sites running webgui
03:17 < lelelele> I mean node community.
03:18 < BartJol> lelelele: and there's even a dutch guy online
03:18 < BartJol> on this time
03:18 < lelelele> wow
03:18 < lelelele> I am LT guy
03:18 < SDuensin> LT?
03:18 < lelelele> so OK what I need to test this .
03:18 < lelelele> Lithuania. yes.
03:18 < lelelele> I have Apache.
03:18 <@rizen> WebGUI is primarily used by businesses, not home users
03:18 < lelelele> what a difference it is CMS.
03:19 < lelelele> for me all CMS is just CMS.
03:19 < lelelele> all plenty of not flexibility.
03:19 < SDuensin> It's the BEST CMS EVER!
03:19 < lelelele> so I am testing them one after another.
03:19 < lelelele> last time I tested Drupal.
03:19  * SDuensin learned the hard way.  He strayed.  Never again!
03:19 < lelelele> Very annoying one...
03:20 < lelelele> The hard thing with CMS is that they are not flexible. I found this one in matrix 
03:20 < BartJol> lelelele: darn, I'be only been to Estonia
03:20 < SDuensin> I ran Joomla and Drupal.  Bad idea.
03:20 < lelelele> there were many Yes'es written on it. And that word "GUI" though it is not GUI.
03:20 < lelelele> GUI is win app.
03:21 < lelelele> javascript can be GUI but many job to do it.
03:21 < SDuensin> Doesn't have to be.
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03:21 < lelelele> better java. ;)
03:21 < BartJol> well, deleting an old webgui and wre tar helped
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03:21 < BartJol> Koen just assigned me not enough disc space...
03:22 < SDuensin> ACK!
03:22 < BartJol> now it work again
03:22  * SDuensin cheers for BartJol 
03:22 < lelelele> SDuensin: how you started with WebGUI?
03:22 <@rizen> lelelele: webgui is so powerful that it actually runs the CMS Matrix
03:22 < lelelele> wow
03:22 < lelelele> really 
03:22 <@rizen> yup
03:22 <@rizen> go to cmsmatrix.org
03:22 < lelelele> so all those intro page about most clicks is a fake :(
03:22 <@rizen> and do a view source
03:22 <@rizen> you'll see a meta tag that says the page is generated using webgui
03:23 < lelelele> I found WebGUI from that intro page from those "most clicks".
03:23 < SDuensin> lelelele - I just stumbled on it years ago.  Foolishly tried other programs.  Almost back to 100% WebGUI.
03:23 < lelelele> 0k
03:23 <@rizen> lelelele: no...we don't touch the site. we just let it run
03:23 < BartJol> ACK, awfully cumulated kunbicles?
03:23 <@rizen> we were the first site on the list, and we have the most clicks because we've been there from day one, and are the best
03:23 < SDuensin> I fell in love with the 5.x series.  6.x had some growing pains.  Now I'm back, baby!
03:23 < lelelele> let's assume that WebGUI is so powerful and GUI is so good dev'ed that noone needs to come to smth like #drupal-support for asking "how to change theme".
03:24 < lelelele> so that is why we are here only some devs and lovers.
03:24 < lelelele> of WebGUI.
03:24 < BartJol> SDuensin: ok back to your Thingy problem
03:24 <@rizen> lelelele: you'd have to be in the community a while to understand 
03:25 < BartJol> I'll open my db
03:25 <@rizen> the number of people in an IRC channel does not mean you have a good or big community
03:25 <@rizen> it just means you have a lot of people in IRC or not
03:25 < SDuensin> lelelele, like I said, it takes a bit more power to run WebGUI.  All the kids with $5 a month web hosts can't install it.
03:25 < SDuensin> BartJol - How do you want me to send my dump over?
03:25 < lelelele> rizen: I want to start. I have Drupal configured easily. I configured commercial PHP/MySQL/WinApp easily. Hope my Apache/MySQL server is enough for installing WebGUI?
03:26 <@rizen> lelelele: no, you need the WebGUI Runtime Environment (WRE)
03:26 < lelelele> Also Perl community forces me to learn Perl not PHP :))
03:26 < SDuensin> Yes.  WRE!
03:26 < lelelele> but that is not the most important :)
03:26 < Radix-wrk> WRE rocks
03:26 < f00li5h> lelelele: still trolling php, i see
03:26 < lelelele> WRE reminds me JRE rofl.
03:26 < lelelele> :)))
03:26 < Radix-wrk> or even easier.. use the vmware appliance
03:27 < BartJol> SDuensin: I'm studying the tables
03:27 < BartJol> ;
03:27 < lelelele> you mean my output website will have smth like JRE? Without WRE costumers won't see the website?
03:27 < f00li5h> wut
03:27 < lelelele> f00li5h : wow you are here too.
03:28 < lelelele> Gosh, so you are dev of WebGUI?
03:28 < f00li5h> I am everywhere
03:28 < BartJol> hee Radix_ good morning
03:28 <@rizen> lelelele: no: the WRE is a server-side thing...users don't need it
03:28 <@rizen> just the server
03:28 < SDuensin> lelelele - The WRE is all the software you need to run WebGUI.
03:28 < Radix-wrk> WRE is a preconfigured MySQL, Apache, Perl, Webgui setup - ready to go and optimised
03:28 < lelelele> rizen: ok for my localhost it is ok, what about my ISP?
03:28 < lelelele> he will not like idea about WRE.
03:28 < lelelele> I mean hosting .
03:28 <@rizen> then you probably can't run webgui
03:28 <@rizen> the server runs the WRE
03:29 < lelelele> I see :(
03:29 < lelelele> Anyway for localhost that will be fun to try out.
03:29 < BartJol> SDuensin: did you assign a default Thing?
03:29 <@rizen> lelelele: don't bother installing it, just use the demo
03:29 < Radix-wrk> hopefully soon it'll be as easy as apt-get install webgui (on debian at least)
03:29 < SDuensin> BartJol - Yea
03:30 < Radix-wrk> BartJol, morning :)
03:30 <@rizen> lelelele: what do you want to see by installing it that you can't figure out by using the demo?
03:30 < SDuensin> Radix-wrk - That would make my day.
03:30 < Radix-wrk> SDuensin, mine too :)
03:31 < lelelele> rizen: I begin thinking that WRE is smth like PHP (server side).
03:31 <@rizen> yes lelelele 
03:31 < lelelele> hmmm
03:32 < BartJol> SDuensin: if you can give me some rows of Thing and the Thingy that holds it, that might give me some starting info
03:32 < BartJol> say limit 10 on th e first one
03:32 < SDuensin> I dumped just the Thingy-related stuff.  It's short.  Like 12k.
03:32 < BartJol> keep in mind that it's half past 2 here
03:32 < SDuensin> hehee
03:32 < BartJol> in paste bin?
03:32 < SDuensin> Sure.
03:32 < lelelele> rizen: WRE is a language like PHP? Or just menubar CMS?
03:33 < lelelele> BartJol: in my place it is half past 4
03:33 <@rizen> WRE= Perl + Apache + MySQL + Image Magick 
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03:33 < BartJol> lelelele: I know
03:33 <@rizen> lelelele: http://www.plainblack.com/tbb/the-case-for-the-wre
03:34 < lelelele> what about security rizen?
03:34 < SDuensin> BartJol - http://webgui.pastebin.com/m31b76002
03:34 < lelelele> I mean big number operations (shutting down server). 
03:34 < lelelele> PHP handles it by default don't allow too much for scripters.
03:34 < lelelele> Perl has sandboxes like Java do?
03:34 < BartJol> found it
03:34 < BartJol> the dump that is
03:34 < SDuensin> lelelele - mod_perl has limits like mod_php.  It won't run off with your server.
03:35 < BartJol> not the problem
03:35 < lelelele> good.
03:35 < lelelele> 0k. I assume it is very good thing.
03:36 < SDuensin> lelelele, WebGUI makes everything else look like a toy.
03:36 < SDuensin> Like rizen said, create a demo account and play with it.
03:36 < f00li5h> rizen: well, i'm convinced ;)
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03:38 < dionak> i've been convinced by the wre too. it makes it super simple to setup webgui, as rizen mentions in his post
03:39 < SDuensin> First time I set up WebGUI, I *compiled* *everything*.  Talk about "fun"!
03:39 < Radix-wrk> heh.. been there, done that too ;)
03:41 < Radix-wrk> I went to great lengths to set up a debian server with webgui - worked great, except I remember getting wierd errors that PB couldn't duplicate.. not big ones, but wierd.  Some interaction of perl modules of differing versions caused it.  Since switching to the WRE everything has been rock solid stable.
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03:42 < SDuensin> I run WRE on Ubuntu.  It's a rock.  (Which is the opposite of a brick.)
03:43 < Radix-wrk> [root@webgui ~]# uptime
03:43 < Radix-wrk>  10:42:39 up 172 days, 21:33,  1 user,  load average: 0.08, 0.02, 0.01
03:43 < SDuensin> Yea.  Mine is like 6 hours.  I updated the OS today.  :-)
03:43 < Radix-wrk> not too bad.. think the last time I shut it down was when we reorganised the server room
03:44 < lelelele> speed.... what about speed comparing PHP/MySQL running Apache, and WRE/MySQL/Perl website/database?
03:44 < lelelele> in percents please. My company website is pretty slow with Apache/PHP/MySQL.
03:44 < Radix-wrk> Assets:	5600
03:44 < Radix-wrk> Packages:	3
03:44 < Radix-wrk> Templates:	288
03:44 < Radix-wrk> Active Sessions:	840
03:44 < Radix-wrk> Users:	11147
03:45 < Radix-wrk> Groups:	1276
03:45 < SDuensin> Can't provide percents.  Depends too much on your machine, OS, etc.
03:45 <@rizen> lelelele: it's not enough to just say perl vs php. because the code running it is different
03:45 < SDuensin> But it's fast.  I run about 18 sites on a low-end server.
03:45 < BartJol> mmm, SDuensin, I'm afriad it will cost me some time on a more awake and sober moment to work this out, but at the moment the only thing I see that a Thingy_3VuQpp2ZL7Mr5RyLIR7pag is created but, I don't see a relation
03:45 < Radix-wrk> how can you compare speed realistically?
03:45 <@rizen> lelelele: what i can tell you is, that WebGUI runs 300% faster on the WRE than it does on native Apache, MySQL packages that come with Red Hat Enterprise Linux
03:46 < SDuensin> BartJol - Just not sure what caused it to happen.  It was fine.  I committed a version tag and it blew up.
03:46 < lelelele> wow rizen, amazing numbers.
03:46 < BartJol> how's your disc space, it solved my problems 10 minutes ago :)
03:47 < SDuensin> rizen - Red Hat *finally* fixed their annoying Perl bug.  About time.
03:47 <@rizen> SD yeah, i read about that
03:48 < SDuensin> Last time I ran Red Hat was before the big change to libc.  That's been forever!
03:48 <@rizen> lelelele: one other thing to consider. a Plain Black employee can install WebGUI using native packages in about 2 hours. or can install WebGUI using the WRE in about 7 minutes
03:48 < lelelele> rizen: I still dont like admin panel.
03:48 < SDuensin> lelelele - Why?
03:49 < lelelele> it is not fast for company to use admin panel online. Why dont you make app for windows?
03:49 < lelelele> and then export/update database online.
03:49 < SDuensin> Because a huge part of the world can't stand Windows.  :-)
03:49 < Radix-wrk> not everyone uses windows
03:49 <@rizen> lelelele: because that only covers windows
03:50 <@rizen> then we'd need to build an interface for mac, linux, iphones, blackberry's, etc
03:50 < SDuensin> I'm guessing Windows is the minority here.  :-)
03:50 <@rizen> that's a lot of work
03:50 < Radix-wrk> I like being able to log into the website from anywhere in the world on any pc and be able to edit/update the website, publish changes, etc
03:50 < BartJol> SDuensin: my thingy doesn't seem to create a Thingy_id table
03:50 < SDuensin> Radix-wrk - Agreed.
03:51 < SDuensin> BartJol - That dump is from 7.5.31.
03:51 < Radix-wrk> in fact we have users all over the world who do that for our website
03:51 < SDuensin> 31?  30?
03:51 < SDuensin> 31
03:51 < SDuensin> :-)
03:51 < lelelele> any CMS does the same `being able` from any place in the world.
03:51 < BartJol> mmm, I don't have a site I can't fiddle around with from that version
03:51 < BartJol> only have 7.6.1
03:52 < lelelele> for company the speed of database changing is important too. 
03:52 < lelelele> Sure it is not a problem, as we admins can easily make it on localhost and export database.
03:52 < lelelele> but it is not meant to be so.
03:52 < Radix-wrk> lelelele, but as soon as you force people to install an application to be able to edit it, then it provides an entry requirement and locks people out
03:52 < SDuensin> Is your connection that slow, lelelele?  Why do you want it local?
03:52 < Radix-wrk> and makes it harder to change on the fly
03:53 < SDuensin> It WebGUI required Windows to use it, I'd not be here.
03:53 < Radix-wrk> neither would PB ;)
03:53 < SDuensin> hehe
03:53 < BartJol> oh, and prolly I will will be bothering you tomorrow night too, I'll try to stay awake during elections
03:53 < Radix-wrk> they all use macs there from what I've seen
03:53 <@rizen> lelelele: if you're looking for something that installs local then webgui isn't for you
03:53 < SDuensin> I use a Mac laptop, but that's for the UNIX, not the GUI.
03:54 < SDuensin> My new business is based entirely on Linux and WebGUI.
03:54 < SDuensin> :-)
03:54  * SDuensin has Gooey sitting on a speaker watching him work.
03:54  * Radix-wrk wonders where his Gooey dolls are.
03:54 < lelelele> rizen : I have nice database win app, and I compare all CMS (1Mgbit connection) with my PC database in winapp.
03:55 < lelelele> Believe me the speed of changing database is just as comparing lightning with dunno what.
03:55 <@rizen> lelelele: that's fine, webgui isn't for everybody
03:55 <@rizen> lelelele: webgui is the best cms out there for more than 10,000 businesses, but it may not be the best cms for your business
03:55 < lelelele> No I still use company website with PHP/MySQL. 
03:56 < lelelele> it would be best if we re-programmed  old website.
03:56 < lelelele> But it is total impossible... we using tables and many programmed modules.
03:56 < SDuensin> I wish I knew what I did to the Thingy.  I really want to use it.
03:56 < lelelele> too expensive to program new modules on Perl.
03:57 < BartJol> sorry SDuensin, I feel my eyelids dropping down
03:57 < BartJol> darn gravity
03:57 < SDuensin> BartJol - That's fine BartJol.  Go rest!  :-)  I can just delete and start over.
03:57 < SDuensin> (And be more careful!)
03:57 < BartJol> with what?
03:58 < BartJol> gooeys?
03:58 < BartJol> or thingy?
03:58 < SDuensin> Thingy.  Delete them.
03:58 < BartJol> :)
03:58 < BartJol> I don't really use them (yet)
03:59 < Radix-wrk> So on different topic... We've got a famous horse race going on in Australia in a couple of hours.. and I understand there's a similar horse race going on in the USA soon too? :)
04:00 < BartJol> horses? We only have cow and other cattle races
04:00 < Radix-wrk> heh.. we race everything here.. even cane toad races
04:00  * SDuensin has no idea
04:01 < BartJol> do horses also have those build-in handbags, like all australian animals?
04:01 < BartJol> arg, my sense off humor is deteriorating
04:02 < SDuensin> hehe
04:02 <@rizen> bartjol: do you have a sense of humor?
04:03 < lelelele> rizen: WYSIWYG editor is superb. Javascript tabber principle is my favorite idea for CMS.
04:04 < BartJol> rizen: yeah, I do, only yours is so bad, that you don't notice, almost a female-male miscommunication
04:04 < lelelele> pretty fast loading images from javascript.
04:04 < BartJol> unfortunately, I would be the female...
04:04 <@rizen> bartjol: i had mine surgically removed at birth
04:04 < BartJol> and you try to judge mine?
04:05 < BartJol> in the netherland, we have a proverb for it
04:05 < BartJol> it's schoenmaker, blijf bij je leest
04:05 < BartJol> which means something like
04:06 < BartJol> shoemaker, stay with your shoe making tools
04:07 < BartJol> so "rizen: shut up and start programming would be a good equivalent"
04:08 < BartJol> rizen: you looked really qute in your joker outfit
04:08 < lelelele> BartJol: how much did you smoke today?
04:09 < lelelele> your Netherlands proverbs seems to be made from smoking narcotics.
04:09 < BartJol> only plain tabacco
04:09 < lelelele> I smoked tabacco too but I am not so rude.
04:09 < lelelele> Are you m/f?
04:09 < BartJol> lelelele: no we sell everything to france people to keep them a bit relaxed
04:09 < lelelele> :))
04:10 <@rizen> BartJol is not rude, he's my wife's Dutch boyfriend
04:10 < lelelele> oh....
04:10 < BartJol> and I try to adjust to rizens way off talking, so he understands
04:10 < lelelele> I see.
04:10 < lelelele> Denmark...
04:10 < lelelele> They are smart too.
04:11 < BartJol> yeah, that's a very usefull remark... Denmark
04:11 < BartJol> now I'm getting rude
04:11 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @perlmonkey2, carogray1
04:12 < lelelele> huh?
04:12 < BartJol> and I type too much for being stoned, and believe me, I've got experience
04:12 < lelelele> D
04:12 < SDuensin> hehe
04:12 < lelelele> Dutch == Denmark, what's wrong bart?
04:13 <@rizen> Danish == Denmark
04:13 <@rizen> Dutch = Holland
04:13 < BartJol> or even better "the Netherlands"
04:13 < lelelele> What a difference, I heared in Netherlands they are mostly from Holland.
04:14 < lelelele> Even speak Dutch language mostly.
04:14 < lelelele> whoops or maybe I misunderstood the words.
04:15 < BartJol> lelelele: you might, it's a quarter past 4 for you
04:15 < lelelele> 4:14
04:15 < BartJol> and you type quite good for this time
04:15 < lelelele> must sleep:(
04:15 < lelelele> no really I mistype too much.
04:15 < BartJol> I'm free tomorrow
04:15 < lelelele> I not only chat with you but also try to test demo online of WebGUI
04:15 < BartJol> mwahhahaha
04:15 < lelelele> hard to concenctrate
04:15 < lelelele> no need
04:16 < lelelele> I just tested
04:16 < lelelele> it is not for me sadly.
04:16 < lelelele> I will concentrate on making my own php CMS...
04:16 < lelelele> I feel to bad in all CMS'es...
04:16 < lelelele> My ideas too many for any CMS out there. Every idea has to add some functions...
04:17 < lelelele> etc u know...
04:17 < BartJol> some people here might consider PHP as a curse around here
04:17 < lelelele> ok see you
04:17 < lelelele> no not really
04:17 < BartJol> I don't
04:17 < lelelele> Perl would be good too but I am newbie
04:17 < lelelele> so began on PHP...
04:18 < BartJol> hee, I'm a newbie, don't have php experience 
04:18 < lelelele> i was total newbie just 2008-05-15
04:18 < lelelele> on that date I decided to know what does all words like HTTP/CSS means
04:18 < BartJol> that;s a year or 2 less than me
04:18 < lelelele> and at the moment I pretty much tested, even ran calculator in JRE JAVA environment
04:19 < lelelele> some Python scripts. PHP becomes comfortable. HTML tags easy.
04:19 < lelelele> I mean it is easy to learn nowadays.
04:19 < lelelele> No need of school. Only one bad thing is IRC.
04:19 < lelelele> But communication is the key of success :)
04:19 < BartJol> and I am just learning to program (coo)l stuff
04:19 < lelelele> I will catch you .
04:19 <@preaction> i've always felt that dedication and hard work are the keys to success
04:20 < lelelele> actually they are.
04:20 < lelelele> But for newbie.
04:20 < BartJol> most work for me was with tranlating
04:20 < lelelele> It was big school to get all around, to smell technologies.
04:20 < lelelele> Now I am enough with google and some .net portals of learning.
04:21 < lelelele> but node community is always very nice to come back.
04:21 < lelelele> just to look `is there any easy thing invented yet?` and again: No go learn hard way if you want become master.
04:22 < BartJol> is "Tere" also lithuanian? 
04:22 < lelelele> And if to use free CMS it is no nice at all.
04:22 < lelelele> I can make html website as fast as with CMS.
04:23 < lelelele> I need many functions in portal, but those functions so different from what CMS gives today, that I must learn program/code myself.
04:23 < SDuensin> Not with forums, user management, etc.
04:23 < lelelele> sure
04:23 < lelelele> But for those was eBulletin
04:23 < lelelele> very nice one long time ago, why Drupal etc came ? Was enough of that one too.
04:23 < SDuensin> I like everything to be integrated.  One account.
04:24 < lelelele> BartJol: no dunno what you mean.
04:24 < BartJol> lelelele: it means hi and goodbye in estonian
04:25 < lelelele> BartJol: in Lituanian for `hi` is "labas" and for `goodbye` is "iki"
04:26 < lelelele> spelling is without english accent though.
04:26 < lelelele> i is i, not ai.
04:26 < lelelele> :)
04:26 < BartJol> I'll try to remember, allthough it's hopeless at this time
04:26 < lelelele> a is a, not ei :)
04:26 < BartJol> ok, Dutch pronounciation is quite similar than
04:27 < lelelele> that is good ;)
04:27 < BartJol> s/than/then/
04:28 < BartJol> nearest to Lithuania I've beenm was Parnu
04:28 < lelelele> rizen: I got idea for your new project. Make such a CMS, that from beginning would go configuration/installation of modules what we need to use. E.G. Installing what we need like import images module, changing with Search menubar, sorting database in meny ways, etc. 
04:28 < BartJol> nice beach there
04:29 < lelelele> That way I could easily add modules which I need. And also translate to my own language. It will look completly cool feeling for users of database inside CMS. Cause they will feel in native CMS which I made. 
04:30 <@rizen> so your idea is that i should build exactly what you need?
04:30 < lelelele> At the moment it looks ordinary CMS with many things not needed etc etc if you know what I mean. If you ever seen simple CMS made for company needs in native language of course.
04:30 <@rizen> the way you want it built?
04:30 < lelelele> yes
04:30 < lelelele> sure why not
04:30 < lelelele> like constructor
04:30 < lelelele> install module
04:30 < lelelele> delete module
04:30 < lelelele> smth like that
04:30 < lelelele> or you mean I can configure that too for certain users like in Drupal?
04:30 <@rizen> i have a better idea... i'm logging off for the night
04:30 < BartJol> lelelele: you can choose to not use modules you don't need
04:31 -!- rizen [n=rizen@h69-128-55-18.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net] has quit ["The Black Blog - http://plainblack.com/tbb"]
04:31 <@preaction> you can also choose to remove modules you don't want
04:31 < lelelele> preaction: ok ;)
04:31 < BartJol> or disable is a better word
04:31 < lelelele> rizen is cool .
04:31 < lelelele> I liked him at first sight :)
04:31 < lelelele> today :)
04:31 <@preaction> i believe the feeling is mutual even
04:32 < BartJol> His couch is nice to
04:32 < BartJol> o
04:32 < lelelele> BartJol hello
04:32 <@preaction> his old couch was nicer, that's why i have it now
04:32 < lelelele> preaction hello
04:33 < BartJol> preaction: can I sleep at your place next year?
04:33 < BartJol> the old one was better indeed
04:33 <@preaction> BartJol, i'm almost 2 hours away from madison, so no
04:33 < lelelele> hmmm
04:34 <@preaction> i'd have to be at least 3 hours away to allow you to sleep here
04:34 < lelelele> you both said His in my script it meant to be "Hi*"
04:34 < lelelele> so it was script which said hello to you both :)
04:34 <@preaction> i'd turn off that script, like now
04:35 < lelelele> what you mean couch :D
04:35 < lelelele> ok I will turn off.
04:35 < BartJol> well, I slept at JT's hoem
04:35 < lelelele> so you talk about bed?
04:35 < BartJol> home
04:35 < BartJol> no 
04:36 < lelelele> dunno
04:36 < BartJol> the thing you can sit on with a couple of persons
04:36 < BartJol> bench?
04:36 <@preaction> sofa
04:36 <@preaction> davenport
04:36 < lelelele> so you are here
04:36 < lelelele> like sleeping together ?
04:36 < lelelele> some of you?
04:37 < BartJol> no, I was in august
04:37 < lelelele> you was BartJol (what you were?) and (with who?)
04:37 < BartJol> JT his wife promised that I could sleep with her, and she would kick him, out
04:37 < BartJol> I was alone :(
04:38 < BartJol> JT=rizen
04:38 < lelelele> oh...
04:38 < lelelele> rizen is m/f?
04:38 < BartJol> m/f?
04:38 < lelelele> i thought it was male.
04:38 < lelelele> yes, sex?
04:38 < BartJol> he is male
04:39 < BartJol> I am too
04:39 < lelelele> 0k
04:39 < lelelele> 0k
04:39 < BartJol> his wife isn't
04:39 < lelelele> 0k
04:39 < lelelele> BartJol hello
04:39 < lelelele> whoops again stupid script.
04:39 < BartJol> mmm
04:39 < lelelele> don't use word "his".
04:40 < BartJol> I'll just finish mu smoke and wodka, then I'll go to bed
04:40 < lelelele> I cannot go to menubar in my mIRC and turn off. cause I turned off menubar and dunno how to show menubar again.
04:40 < lelelele> I dranked two beers
04:40 < lelelele> dont want to smoke at the moment, I just am in my bad all the time with laptop.
04:40 < BartJol> I top that
04:41 < BartJol> bad is bath or bed?
04:41 < lelelele> bed
04:41 < lelelele> :))
04:41 < lelelele> laptop on bath hah
04:41 < lelelele> would be smth new...
04:41 < BartJol> ok, otherwise I'll had too warn you for the dangers
04:41 < lelelele> :))
04:42 < lelelele> 0k
04:42 < lelelele> tell me more
04:42 < lelelele> about that wife
04:42 < lelelele> you share same woman with r?
04:42 < BartJol> not really
04:42 < lelelele> rizen claimed you are.
04:43 < BartJol> she just called me her boyfriend
04:43 < BartJol> and that she would move to here to form my harem
04:43 < BartJol> but she didn't
04:43 < lelelele> ::
04:43 < BartJol> to make it up she wants to couple me to a friend of hers
04:43 < lelelele> WOW
04:43 < lelelele> :)
04:44 < lelelele> Interesting...
04:44 < lelelele> I have girlfriend too
04:44 < BartJol> yeah, nice a girlfriend 3000 miles from here
04:45 < BartJol> but his wife is nice to hangout with
04:45 < lelelele> but she is blond and doesn't use irc, or understand anything about html etc, she just use some final php products for communication, those slow ones...and plays some very old games :)
04:45 < lelelele> we are different, cause I like codes, etc , she likes music :D
04:45 < BartJol> ah, I had one off those
04:46 < lelelele> you left her or she left you?
04:46 < lelelele> why?
04:46 < BartJol> not to be negative
04:46 < BartJol> well, we just hadn't enough "click"
04:47 < lelelele> heh yeah
04:47 < lelelele> that is painful
04:47 < BartJol> did like each other, and that the other pone had the intrest, but didn't share enough
04:48 -!- carogray1 [n=Caroline@c-76-24-169-61.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
04:48 < lelelele> pone?
04:48 < BartJol> one
04:48 < lelelele> hmmm
04:48 < BartJol> was a nice time though
04:48 < lelelele> she didnt like computers?
04:48 < lelelele> and your coding?
04:48 < BartJol> nope
04:49 < lelelele> she didnt like you sitting near computer when you together?
04:49 < BartJol> yeah, the fatal point was that she said: I don't like the way you indent in your code
04:49 < lelelele> you tried to explain her BroodWar strategy game rules but she said she wasnt interested at all to this difficult game?
04:49 < Radix-wrk> heh.. it's funny because you're thinking of BartJol as a computer nerd - and in rl he's not ;)
04:50 < lelelele> "intend in your code" ?
04:50 < BartJol> indent
04:50 < SDuensin> In real life he's supposed to be RESTING!   :-P
04:50 < lelelele> ah ....
04:50 < lelelele> BartJol : so you are not geek.
04:50 < lelelele> like me :)
04:50 < BartJol> mm, that sounds like a comment for both of us lelelele
04:50 < BartJol> ok SDq
04:50 < BartJol> SDuensin: 
04:51  * Radix-wrk enjoyed many great belgian, dutch and german beers with BartJol when he was in Holland last year.
04:51 < BartJol> and haring
04:51 < lelelele> wow
04:51 < Radix-wrk> hehe.. and Haring
04:51 < lelelele> I drink lithuanian beer mostly.
04:51 < lelelele> it is very good.
04:51 < lelelele> too:)
04:52 < lelelele> I suppose all beer is good in the world :)
04:52 < Radix-wrk> Beer is good
04:52 < BartJol> not all
04:52 < Radix-wrk> not all appeals to everyone
04:52 <@perlmonkey2> BartJol: are you a beer snob?
04:52 < BartJol> but the intention of beer is good
04:52 < BartJol> perlmonkey2: no, but even I have my limits
04:53 < Radix-wrk> Beer is liquid hope to the ugly.
04:53 < BartJol> like bud-light
04:53 < Radix-wrk> most light beers are crap tho really
04:53 <@perlmonkey2> I love light beer
04:53 < BartJol> or doesn't that earns the label beer?
04:53 <@perlmonkey2> you can drink it as long as you want and never get drunk
04:53 < Radix-wrk> perlmonkey2, really?  why?
04:53  * lelelele agrees perlmonkey2
04:54 <@perlmonkey2> all the while enjoying frosty goodness
04:54 < lelelele> though I sometimes get drunk from light beer too.
04:54  * f00li5h paws at perlmonkey2  
04:54 <@perlmonkey2> hey f00li5h :)
04:54 < f00li5h> perlmonkey2: how's things?
04:54 < lelelele> hi perlmonkey2
04:54 <@perlmonkey2> pretty groovy, about about you's?
04:54 < lelelele> f00li5h you are here again :))
04:54 < BartJol> well, for drinking all day long it's good, but make sure it's chech something similar
04:54 <@perlmonkey2> hello lelelele
04:55 < lelelele> hey perlmonkey2
04:55 <@perlmonkey2> BartJol: Coors light :D
04:55 < BartJol> s drinking light beer is only allowed if you drink it all day
04:55 -!- khenn_ [n=khenn@97.92.186.139] has joined #WebGUI
04:55 < f00li5h> lelelele: i had to go get milk... came back with $100 worth of food goods -_-
04:55 < lelelele> wow
04:56 < BartJol> perlmonkey2: mmmm, I am not rally sure whether I want to know you anymore
04:56 < lelelele> and we are trolling here in terms of perl channed node f00li5h
04:56 < lelelele> :))
04:56 < lelelele> trollin about beer :))
04:56 < lelelele> but doesn't matter, we are Europe time mostly I suppose, so we are a bit relaxed.
04:56 < Radix-wrk> you guys all php advocates or something?
04:56 -!- khenn [n=khenn@97.92.186.139] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
04:56 < f00li5h> i wish i had european beer!
04:56 <@perlmonkey2> BartJol => beeristocat
04:56 < BartJol> tomorrow the subject will prolly be elections
04:57 < SDuensin> BartJol - I hope not.  I'm sick of it.
04:57 < Radix-wrk> Will you vote though - that's the question..
04:58 < Radix-wrk> here we're forced to vote
04:58 < SDuensin> If I get home in time.
04:58 <@perlmonkey2> forced to vote?  how strange
04:58 < lelelele> f00li5h : I have one, would like to give it to you, for some food goods from your basket...
04:58 < Radix-wrk> if you don't vote you get fined
04:58 < BartJol> perlmonkey2: yeah yeah, go ahead with your impressive booming voice, but you'll have to talk louther if you want to get me shaking
04:58 <@perlmonkey2> that is nuts
04:58 < SDuensin> They're all crooks though.  Sucks having to pick the lesser of two evils.
04:58 <@perlmonkey2> BartJol: :P
04:58 < f00li5h> lelelele: you are going to give me food goods?
04:58 < Radix-wrk> voting occurs on a weekend tho - so everyone can do it.. and we have absentee voting if you're not able to make it to a polling booth on the day
04:58 <@perlmonkey2> BartJol: I can't be too scary if I like light beer
04:59 < f00li5h> lelelele: liquid breakfast!
04:59 < Radix-wrk> You guys are making me thirsty!
04:59 < lelelele> f00li5h : just one Lithuanian beer candle. 
04:59 < lelelele> hah:)
04:59 < Radix-wrk> just going on lunchtime here too.. one hour before the big race
04:59 < lelelele> ok will be fine for my little sister f00li5h :)
05:00 < lelelele> I personally prefered some american chocolade :D
05:00 < f00li5h> american chocolate?
05:00 < lelelele> not snickers/rafaelo/etc what is plenty in Europe :)
05:00 < f00li5h> oh! i have british candy, does that count?
05:00 < Radix-wrk> belgian chocolates are the best
05:00 < lelelele> yes, smth like with ment
05:00 < lelelele> I know one very tasty
05:00 <@perlmonkey2> okay, the best mass produced ale ever made, Sam Adams Boston
05:00 < lelelele> we dont have it here :)
05:00 < lelelele> menthol
05:01 < Radix-wrk> nor here
05:01 < BartJol> perlmonkey2: it's not the physical part, only the menatl one, that someone confinced you you like it, they can convince you of everything
05:01 < Radix-wrk> Little Creatures Pale Ale is a very nice local beer where I am ;)
05:01 < lelelele> ok
05:01 < lelelele> it was fantastic night with you
05:01 <@perlmonkey2> BartJol: I am a sheeple for beer, or more commonly know as a beeple.
05:01 < lelelele> but before I get up 10am
05:02 < lelelele> I need to sleep 5hours and counting
05:02 < lelelele> bye mates!
05:02 -!- lelelele [n=le@62.212.206.105] has quit []
05:02 < BartJol> well, that's one lost soul
05:02 < SDuensin> hehe
05:03 < SDuensin> He has some technology issues to work out.  :-)
05:03 < BartJol> allthough I got the feeling he liked us...
05:03 < SDuensin> How could you not!?
05:03 <@perlmonkey2> if he is serious about his goals, he'll probably be back.
05:04 < BartJol> he even had a conversation with JT, and was not apalled with his "directness"
05:04 -!- carogray [n=Caroline@c-76-24-169-61.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
05:04 < Radix-wrk> heh
05:05 <@perlmonkey2> wow, Obama is trading $9.10 for a $10 contract or 91% chance to win.
05:05 <@perlmonkey2> seems like easy money
05:06 < BartJol> eeeh
05:06 < Radix-wrk> Does sound like he's won.  But it all depends on who hits the polling booths on the day.
05:06 < BartJol> like, really buying people to vote for him?
05:07 < Radix-wrk> heh.. I suspect those are the odds for a bet
05:07 < BartJol> Radix-wrk: well, normally a democracy work like that, but in the USA?
05:07 <@perlmonkey2> BartJol: a contract market on who will win.
05:07 < BartJol> like a bet?
05:08 <@perlmonkey2> McCain is trading at $.90 for a $10 contract
05:08 <@perlmonkey2> yes, except they call it a market contract
05:08 < BartJol> that's horrible that it is even legal
05:08 <@perlmonkey2> you are trading $10 contracts that pay 0 if the terms fail or $10 if they meet.
05:08 < Radix-wrk> In the USA - anything is possible.. heck it's possible for a young black boy to turn into an old white woman. (Michael Jackson)
05:08 < SDuensin> It's like a football pool.
05:11 < BartJol> yeah, that is given me a lot of trust on US politics...
05:11 < BartJol> s/is/has/
05:11  * SDuensin is in the USA.  Imagine the trust he has.
05:12 < Radix-wrk> heh
05:12 <@perlmonkey2> the system is horribly broken.
05:13 < SDuensin> And massively corrupt.
05:13 < BartJol> Dutch politics isn't all that, don't get strange ideas about that, but I think I've got more choice than in the US
05:14 < Radix-wrk> http://sinfest.net/comikaze/comics/2008-11-03.gif
05:14 < BartJol> but it is always choosing between a vaginal douche and a turd sandwich...
05:15 < SDuensin> Hey, I don't remember you guys starting a war to protect your personal oil interests.  Can't be THAT bad.
05:15 <@perlmonkey2> BartJol: Oh come on, we have a Chicago Politician (a pejorative) or a Good ol boy Republican (also a perjorative) to choose from.  See, that is choice.
05:18 < BartJol> SDuensin: no, we just join you to remain friends, allthough we have not that many troups, just send them to win friendship from the UK and US
05:19 < BartJol> governments that is
05:19 <@perlmonkey2> BartJol: you didn't have to do that, I already consider us friends :)
05:19 < BartJol> yeay, me and you, but our governments??
05:19 < BartJol> I don't question all US people
05:20 < BartJol> only the "board" from the last..... let's say 8 years
05:21 <@perlmonkey2> the "board"?
05:21 <@perlmonkey2> what is that?
05:22 < BartJol> perlmonkey2: do you think that things will get better with one of the two president cannidates
05:22 < BartJol> ?
05:22 < BartJol> the bush administration perlmonkey2
05:22 < BartJol> not directly the senate
05:23 <@perlmonkey2> no
05:23 <@perlmonkey2> I think things will get worse
05:23 <@perlmonkey2> regardless
05:24 < BartJol> but is that just a economic fluctuation problem or more fundamental?
05:24 < BartJol> where do your concerns are eventually?
05:24 <@perlmonkey2> I think the last 8 years have brought incredible new levels of corruption to government.  That will not easily be reversed.
05:25 <@perlmonkey2> Not unless Patrick Fitzgerald is given a secretarily position to police Congress :P
05:26 < BartJol> so a lot of "supporting"people stay or is it a trend to be bribable?
05:26 < BartJol> stay after the elections
05:27 <@perlmonkey2> the political appoitments will mostly all change
05:27 < BartJol> and bribable has more meanings than just money
05:27 <@perlmonkey2> I think the corruption is mostly limited to upper government.  There are pretty good checks on the little people.
05:29 < BartJol> so you expect both candidates to keep that intact?
05:29 <@perlmonkey2> How would the president police congress?  impossible.
05:29 < BartJol> s/that/the crruptness/
05:30 < SDuensin> Our government needs rebooted.
05:30 < BartJol> I would like to say thta "sense" would be an answer
05:32 <@perlmonkey2> BartJol: here is why this is.  Congress approval ratings are at an all time low.  At one point they were in the single digits.  Yes in the Senate only 8 of the 33 seats up are even contested.
05:32 <@perlmonkey2> incumbants just don't lose very often no matter what they do.
05:33 < BartJol> but if you want to chance other people (than US) you should chance yourself (not meant  personally), personally I think a good learning and health program would be a priority
05:34 <@perlmonkey2> bah we can get nothing done until the corruption is dealt with.  anything done now will be half-assed and full of bribery and payoffs.
05:34 < BartJol> self sustaining economy would be a help to, instead of just robbing other countries of oil
05:36 < BartJol> sorry perlmonkey2, my english is not good enough to really get what you meant with:Congress approval ratings are at an all time low.  At one point they were in the single digits.  Yes in the Senate only 8 of the 33 seats up are even contested.
05:36 <@perlmonkey2> s/Yes/yet/
05:36 < SDuensin> It's win-win over here.  Our "leaders" have personal oil interests *and* private military interests.  Go fight over oil and you make money no matter what.
05:36 <@perlmonkey2> The Senate (one of the two houses of congress) only 8 people have a chance of losing their seats to a challenger.
05:38 < BartJol> is that in general?
05:39 < BartJol> no, apparently
05:39 <@perlmonkey2> no, in general it is a lot less.  In a normal year, it would be almost impossible to lose your seat in congress.
05:39 <@perlmonkey2> so once elected they can be as criminal as they want with little chance of consequences.
05:40 < SDuensin> Remember, if "pro" is the opposite of "con", what is the opposite of "progress"?  :-)
05:40 <@perlmonkey2> Don't get me wrong.  There is a lesser of two evils to pick from.
05:41 < BartJol> ah, here a new president is (normally) chosen from the political group that had the highest percentage of the votes, but the congress is renewed as a result from the votes
05:42 < BartJol> but we have 10+ "groups"
05:43 < BartJol> in our congress, there's even one that just focusses om protection of animals
05:43 < BartJol> they have only 1 seat though
05:45 < BartJol> but, just keep hope, for now... I just go to bed
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06:10 < dionak> election tomorrow...the end of the bush era coming...
06:10 < dionak> i, for one, am so excited!
06:10 <@preaction> it may not be the end of the bush era, mccain may get elected ;-)
06:11 < dionak> true...but still.
06:11 < dionak> i really think obama will come out on top. we'll see
06:11 < dionak> never know. 
06:12 <@preaction> http://www.truthout.org/110308A <- let's hope Obama wins
06:12 < dionak> the last two prez elections i've stayed up all night to see the results. i'm finally taking the next day off to get some rest
06:14 < dionak> let's hope not...
06:14 < apeiron> heh
06:14 < apeiron> It's bloody illegal to remove felons from the voter registration. =\
06:14 < apeiron> Or... was.
06:14 < dionak> during election, i yell at the tele like others do at football games in the us. if it gets close, i'll lose my voice. ;)
06:15 <@preaction> that hasn't stopped the GOP in the last two presidential elections
06:15 < apeiron> preaction, Well, yeah. "If we can't win, we'll cheat!"
06:15 < dionak> there's already so much misinformation. like if you have a traffic ticket, you can't vote. 
06:15 < dionak> it's ridiculous. 
06:16 < apeiron> Yeah. All that's just total bull.
06:16 < apeiron> See also: http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/11/air-force-aims.html
06:16 < dionak> yea, true but it's believed
06:16 < apeiron> ^ the USAF can't beat the people attacking their sites so they want to literally redesign TCP/IP
06:17 < apeiron> That'll go over really well with the rest of the world.
06:17 < apeiron> (for once I am thankful that businesses own our government, they won't stand for this)
06:17 < dionak> i've gotten at least 8 calls in the last 72 hours regarding voting
06:17 < apeiron> heh
06:17 < dionak> it's almost silly
06:17 < dionak> i've stopped answering
06:17  * apeiron spent about 15 hours this weekend doing so
06:18 < apeiron> That was quite the educational experience. I learned where the money goes in a campaign.
06:19 < apeiron> $400+ USD/day in just pizza. For one facility. Not counting phones or anything else.
06:19 < dionak> it's amazing how out of touch most americans are that they believe this misinformation. the internet should really be freely available to everyone so they can do their research.
06:19 < apeiron> yes, well
06:19 < apeiron> Typical American big business doesn't see things the way we hippies do. :)
06:20 < dionak> yea, we have biz acquaintances that make mad money on campaigns. quite amazing really that a biz model can be based on re-election.
06:20 < dionak> shows the machine quality of re-election, and the money behind it
06:20 < apeiron> That's... quite a lot of trust.
06:21 < dionak> obama has been campaigning for two years. imagine the capital behind that
06:21 < apeiron> Billions.
06:21 < apeiron> Easily.
06:21 < dionak> yea, silly $$ really
06:22 < apeiron> But you know what? It's money that's feeding our businesses, feeding our economy.
06:22 < dionak> true
06:23 < apeiron> They say war's great for the economy. We've got the war here that's the exception to the rule. I'd go so far to say that the campaigning is what's kept this country the milimeter it is from the economic grave.
06:23 < dionak> i think the exception is because of the interdependency of the global economy.
06:24 < apeiron> And if you look back in history at all the previous elections, this one is *huge*. All the candidates are spending enormous amounts of money on absolutely everything.
06:24 < dionak> yea, it just keeps growing
06:24 < dionak> obama has set a record
06:24 < apeiron> oh yeah, I heard about that.
06:25 < apeiron> I've seen several images around the net about his spending policy, his inexperience. One compares Clinton to Bush 1 and 2 and Reagan. Clinton was tax + spend: surplus. The rest: huge deficit.
06:26 < apeiron> The other one is a picture of Lincoln with the text "inexperienced Illinois senator" on the bottom.
06:26 < apeiron> (the latter is on cafepress if you're interested)
06:27 < dionak> either way, mcain + pailn just frickin' scares me. mostly her
06:28 < apeiron> yes. Especially considering McCain's health, we're quite possibly literally a breath away from Palin for President.
06:28 < dionak> love tina fey tho. !!
06:28 < dionak> exactly! that's why it's so scary! 
06:29 < apeiron> I had a teacher in high school, six years ago (yes, I'm young) who made an interesting remark. He had said that no nation lasts forever.
06:29 < dionak> i say tina faye for prez rather than sarah. did you catch the prank on youtube?
06:29 < apeiron> And that there's a growing number of similarities between the US and Rome when it fell.
06:29 < dionak> good point. smart teacher
06:29 < apeiron> No, links?
06:30 < dionak> yea, i've heard the relation. just a sec
06:30 < dionak> honestly, i couldn't watch it all. thought it was a little cruel
06:31 < apeiron> heh. 
06:31 < dionak> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMV0LKlVj8I
06:31  * apeiron *click*
06:31 < dionak> she and her staff sound so excited, then confused...then disappointed..
06:32 < apeiron> heh
06:32 < apeiron> Have you heard what the McCain campaign is doing now?
06:32 < dionak> idk, their strategy hasn't changed much
06:33 < apeiron> They're actually using automated bots to call people and play clips of *Hillary* talking trash about Obama.
06:33 <@preaction> yeah, By Any Means Necessary doesn't really lend a supporting strategy
06:33 < apeiron> "maybe in eight years" /me shudders
06:33 < dionak> i recently heard the robocalls statistically have no effect...
06:33 < dionak> npr
06:34 < apeiron> Probably not. But still, it's really low.
06:34 < apeiron> bahaha "I can see Belgium"
06:34 < apeiron> .... wait wat
06:34 < dionak> have you been watching snl?
06:34 < dionak> lol
06:34 < apeiron> No TV for me.
06:34 < dionak> oh, nbc.com
06:35 < apeiron> It's more a choice thing than anything else.
06:35 < apeiron> Choice / principle.
06:35 < dionak> tv?
06:35 < apeiron> Too much conservativism / DMCA for me.
06:36 < apeiron> bahahaha, fox news
06:36 < apeiron> ++
06:37 < dionak> apeiron, good to know we have something in common. an interest in us politics
06:38 < apeiron> You know, I used to be quite apolitical. Then I heard about net neutrality.
06:41 < dionak> lol
06:41 < apeiron> hm?
06:42 < dionak> net neutrality is so controversial that it can't help but motivate us geeks
06:42 < dionak> if it doesn't motivate us, there's something seriously wrong
06:42 < apeiron> Oh yes.
06:42 < dionak> glad it inspired you
06:44 < apeiron> I saw a lot of merchandise on cafepress with a slogan that says "if you're not outraged, you're not paying attention". So so so true.
06:44 < dionak> yea, so true.
06:44 < dionak> ok, i'm out. got to get some EST rest before the big day
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06:45 < dionak> ttys
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16:14 < SDuensin> Greetings.
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17:07 <@perlmonkey2> howdy SDuensin
17:09 < SDuensin> Hey perlmonkey2 
17:10 < carogray> morning
17:10 < carogray> editor just deleted a collaboration system trying to delete a thread
17:11 < carogray> I can find it when I search but no other way
17:11  * SDuensin is still playing with Things.
17:11 < carogray> not in any directory
17:11 < carogray> any clues to restoring collaboration system that is still there in some form somehow?
17:12 < ryuu_ro> carogray: isn't it in your trashbin?
17:12 < carogray> not in mine and not in system
17:12 < ryuu_ro> hmm, that sucks
17:12 < carogray> you betcha
17:12 < carogray> wanted to go live this week
17:13 < carogray> I put in a login request... just thought if anyone were around now I might figure it out sooner
17:14 <@perlmonkey2> rizen: any useful utility scripts I write, can they just be added to tools?
17:14 <@perlmonkey2> For instance a script that changes the archive on date for all the CS's in a conf?
17:14 <@rizen> that's probably better to be released into the bazaar
17:15 <@perlmonkey2> okay
17:15 <@rizen> not that you couldn't also put it in tools
17:15 <@rizen> but that one could definitely be useful to other peeps
17:15 <@perlmonkey2> yeah, would be groovy for the bazaar and that's probably where people will lok first.
17:15 < carogray> oddly enough when I find it in search, I add the ?op=assetManager;method=manage I end up in clipboard
17:15 < carogray> oh!  
17:15 <@rizen> the tools folder in svn was originally only for our release management tools
17:15 < carogray> check system clipboard and there it is! Hallelujah.
17:16 <@rizen> but it's kind of been corrupted over the years
17:16 < carogray> never mind
17:16 < ryuu_ro> carogray: good times!
17:17 <@perlmonkey2>  rizen maybe a new dir for just utilities?
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17:19 <@rizen> perlmonkey2: when it becomes a problem, then we'll worry about it
17:21 < SDuensin> Hey rizen, is "Thingy" production-worthy in 7.5.31, or should I wait?
17:21 <@rizen> yes it is
17:21 <@rizen> we're using it in a few places
17:22 < SDuensin> Just kinda gunshy after last night.  I *really* want to use it for a lot of management functions though.
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17:43 <@rizen> patspam are you here?
17:50 <@perlmonkey2> rizen: it'd be 2:50 in the morning there
17:51 <@rizen> that doesn't mean anything...this is patspam we're talking about
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17:55 <@rizen> ok then, i have a quick poll for the devs that are here:
17:56 <@rizen> WebGUI::Crud's update() method requires that you pass in a hash reference of properties to set
17:56 < SDuensin> They all say "yes" - rename the "Advertising" icon!   :-P
17:56 <@rizen> this hash reference is then used to update the database table and WebGUI::Crud's internal data structures
17:57 <@rizen> it therefore deletes any elements from the hash reference that are not part of it's definition
17:57 <@rizen> this could either be a bug or a feature
17:58 <@rizen> the other day this thing hit me because it deleted that element from my hash
17:58 <@rizen> the thing was, i was jury rigging something...so it basically caught me jury rigging and said "you shouldn't do that"
17:58 <@rizen> so from that vantage point it's a feature
17:58 <@rizen> on the other hand, i could make a copy of the hash reference that you pass in
17:59 <@rizen> which is less efficient than just using the hash reference
17:59 <@rizen> and then delete what i need to delete from the copy
17:59 <@rizen> thusly you'd never run into this problem
17:59 <@rizen> if we keep the first way, this will of course be documented in the pod
17:59 <@rizen> so my question to you is, which makes more sense?
18:00 <@rizen> delete from the hash ref, or copy the hash ref?
18:00 <@preaction> keep it how it is. if they really need to maintain the integrity of their data hashref they can make a new hashref themselves
18:06 < CIA-6> WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r8247 /tools/updateCollaborationArchiveDate.pl: New script that will update all the collab systems for a site (or all sites) to archive after a given period
18:06 < CIA-6> WebGUI: jt * r8248 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Crud.pm: Crud create() for specific id (#9035)
18:06 < CIA-6> WebGUI: jt * r8249 /WebGUI/t/Crud.t: Crud create() for specific id (#9035)
18:06 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8250 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Google sitemaps index added to WebGUI
18:06 < CIA-6> WebGUI: jt * r8251 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Crud.pm: documented the deletion of elements from the properties hash ref in update()
18:06 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8252 /WebGUI/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt: google site index
18:12 < topsub> can i get the userId  from.. ^User(userId); ?
18:14 <@rizen> yup
18:14 <@rizen> i think that ^#; also does it
18:24 < topsub> Here is a better idea. I can put a macro call inside the sql reports right?
18:24 < topsub> That way i can say like where userId = ^#():?
18:24 < topsub> ah yep this seems like its working
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18:28 < elnino> good morning! I have 7.5.24, and I'm trying to figure out how to make a question on a survey with check boxes, so that people can select more than one answer. Is that possible?
18:32 < elnino> looking at the webgui site, this feature has seemed to be missing since 2005?
18:38 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8253 /WebGUI/etc/WebGUI.conf.original: Added new content handlers to WebGUI.conf.original
18:41 < topsub> Threw the inbox system how can i send a message to a group?
18:41 <@preaction> WebGUI::Mail::Send
18:41 < topsub> I mean is there a way by default
18:41 < topsub> not doing anything custom
18:42 <@preaction> go into the Group manager, click on a group, look for "Send an Email to group"
18:44 < topsub> hmm will this show up as an "inbox" item?
18:44 < topsub> not just email them?
18:44 <@preaction> not sure, try it?
18:44 < topsub> the private message system we want to send a message to everyone not email.
18:47 < topsub> hmm doesn't seem like it. that really just emails them
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18:55 < knowmad> rizen: want to hold this SEO conversation in realtime instead of via RFE?
18:55 <@rizen> for pink slips?
18:55 < knowmad> you're on, buddy!
18:56 <@rizen> i don't think that anybody uses pink slips anymore
18:56 < knowmad> so how do i get keywords field into the meta tags? i don't see any template variables for putting it in there
18:56 <@rizen> the title to my car is white paper with blue text
18:56 < knowmad> (that's why i was so quick to agree)
18:56 <@rizen> heh
18:56 <@rizen> you don't need template variables
18:56 <@rizen> just type keywords
18:57 <@rizen> and they automatically create a metatag in the head block
18:57 < elnino> rizen: i had to add: <meta etc...
18:57 < knowmad> oh
18:57 <@rizen> elnino: that's cuz you aren't using the keywords field
18:57 <@rizen> you're using the raw head tags field
18:57 < knowmad> hmm, i don't like it; seems too much like action at a distance
18:57 < elnino> what version puts the metatag in?
18:57 < knowmad> 7.5.x
18:58 < knowmad> i'd guess since that's when the new field was added to the metadata tab for all assets
18:58 <@rizen> knowmad, whether you like it or not is irrelevant, that's how it works
18:58 <@rizen> you said you wanted the easy way
18:58 < knowmad> ok, i'll take it up with template designers but it only addresses 50% of my RFE
18:58 <@rizen> to add keywords to the head block
18:58 < knowmad> LOL, you got me there
18:58 <@rizen> something that a normal user could do
18:58 <@rizen> it can't be any easier than that
18:59 < elnino> what about the description metatag?
18:59 <@rizen> the synopsis (summary) field is supposed to do that, but it doesn't appear to be working
18:59 < knowmad> but i'm a control freak and want to be able to place my keywords into the head block using a template variable
18:59 <@rizen> so that's a bug report that needs to be field
18:59 <@rizen> filed
18:59 < knowmad> oh, okay; i can do that
18:59 <@rizen> knowmad...then do it one of the 10 other ways that webgui allows you to do it
18:59 < elnino> oh. I thought the summary field was for synopis on navigation assets...
19:00 < knowmad> elnino: it's for that also
19:00 < elnino> oh.
19:00 < knowmad> and search results
19:00 <@rizen> elnino, synopsis is for many things
19:01 < knowmad> so why didn't I know about this behavior of keywords?
19:02 <@rizen> knowmad: this is why i said in the ticket that maybe we should have a chapter on SEO in the book
19:02 <@rizen> in the CM guide
19:02 < knowmad> with keywords, it's my own fault for not reading the help text
19:02 < elnino> that would be great. Because even the hover
19:02 < knowmad> I do agree about a chapter in CM Guide
19:02 < elnino> doesn't elude to what you say those two fields do.
19:03 < knowmad> actually it does for keywords but not for synopsis
19:03 < elnino> you;r right! =)
19:03 <@rizen> and as i said, synopsis is both broken and used for a lot of things
19:03 <@rizen> it can't possibly give you a list of all the things it's used in
19:04 < knowmad> but a few of the main ones wouldn't hurt ;)
19:04 <@rizen> knowmad: does this mean i get your pink?
19:05 < knowmad> no, the bug saved me
19:05 < elnino> knowmad - re seo. Something I brought upto tiffany, is having a
19:06 < elnino> separate title meta field, as opposed to using the title field on the asset.
19:06 < elnino> I have a really cool macro
19:06 < elnino> that checks to see if a title has been defined in the "extra head field" and if it exissts
19:06 < knowmad> yes, we're seeing similar needs
19:06 < elnino> it doesn't print out the title field
19:06 < knowmad> oh, that's interesting
19:06 < elnino> if one doesn't exists, it uses the asset's title
19:07 < elnino> I've been meaning to post it.
19:07 < knowmad> i could see where the Metadata tab would have an SEO section with the synopsis, title and keywords sections; if the title is not defined, it could use the Page Layout or asset title
19:07 < knowmad> thanks for sharing
19:09 < elnino> that's what I thought the metadata tab was for, only to find out it wasnt'., back in the 7.3x days.
19:10 <@rizen> don't confuse metadata with meta tags
19:10 < elnino> I know, that's what confused me.. The similarity in the name.
19:10 < elnino> I know now. =)
19:11 < elnino> I wouldn't be surprised if others got them confused.  meta DATA being all that is included in the different meta TAGS.
19:11 < knowmad> yeah, those caught me up at first also 
19:11 <@rizen> i wouldn't be surprised if someone didn't know what the title field is for
19:12 < elnino> knowmad, would you like that macro?
19:13 <@rizen> that's why in 7.6 you can now rename all fields and all tabs to be whatever you want them to be
19:13 < knowmad> elnino: thanks. i don't have a need for it now but it's good to know you've developed it
19:13 < knowmad> that's a nice touch
19:16 < knowmad> bug report added
19:16 < elnino> thanks knowmad
19:17 < elnino>  I have 7.5.24, and I'm trying to figure out how to make a question on a survey with check boxes, so that people can select more than one answer. Is that possible? I could have sworn I've seen somewhere.. maybe it was in "thingy". but I need it in the survey.
19:17 < elnino> rizen what is the size of the keywords field?
19:19 <@rizen> probably 255
19:19 < knowmad> rizen: i've altered the RFE to request access to the description and keywords via template variables; i've given 2 reasons why it's "a good thing"
19:19 <@preaction> i think it gets processed and parsed, so it might be unlimited
19:20 <@rizen> there isn't really a specific length because keywords aren't really stored in a single field in the database
19:20 <@rizen> but the form element itself might have a max length set
19:20 < knowmad> is there a limit in HTML specs?
19:20 <@rizen> knowmad: it will be rejected
19:20 <@preaction> no, but the <meta name="keywords"> isn't really used anymore
19:20 < knowmad> why?
19:21 <@rizen> because i disagree
19:21 < elnino> knowmad: there isn['t a limit in the html specs but there are recommendations of so many "terms"
19:21 < knowmad> that's unreasonable
19:21 <@rizen> i'm unreasonable
19:21 < knowmad> like i said...
19:21 <@rizen> now if you had said "synopsis" and "keywords" then i might agree
19:21 <@rizen> but description...not going to happen
19:22 < knowmad> oh, i'm saying the wrong thing
19:22 < knowmad> i meant synopsis
19:22 < elnino> keywords are used, just not as important in search engines as it was once.
19:22 <@rizen> you better hurry and update your RFE before i reject it then
19:22 < knowmad> it's the SEO stuff that, although search engines don't necessarily rely on, my clients want
19:22 < knowmad> going...
19:22 < elnino> same here.
19:22 <@rizen> i'm probably still going to reject it
19:23 <@rizen> just cuz it will make you angry
19:23 < elnino> if marketing thinks it's important....
19:23 <@preaction> they only think it's important because they're idiots
19:23 < knowmad> then i'll have dionak submit
19:23 < elnino> preaction =)
19:23 < knowmad> i know you like her better anyhow
19:23 <@rizen> damn, i can't resist diona
19:23 <@rizen> =)
19:23 < knowmad> i knew it :)
19:24 <@preaction> SEO is snake-oil. if you're already following W3's guidelines on how to create accessible, proper sites then you have all the SEO you need
19:24  * preaction insert counter-rhetoric here
19:25  * rizen must t-r-y to resist diona
19:25 < knowmad> preaction: i generally agree; we're not selling it just accomodating the client who want to use it
19:25 < elnino> which rfe are you guys talking about? I only see the bug report.
19:26 < knowmad> #9036
19:26 -!- dionak [n=dionak@97.66.185.250] has joined #webgui
19:26 < knowmad> rizen: you're getting v-e-r-y sleepy; cannot resist dionak's demands...
19:27 < knowmad> poof, there she is
19:27 <@rizen> noooooooooOOOOOOO! diona is my kryptonite
19:27 < dionak> hm, my ears were burning
19:27 < knowmad> i've threatened to put you after him if he doesn't approve my RFE (#9036)
19:27 < knowmad> i knew he wouldn't say no to you :)
19:28 < knowmad> it's lunchtime!
19:28 < knowmad> ttyl
19:28 < dionak> yea, rizen finds my voice irresistable. 
19:29 < dionak> lol
19:32 < elnino> anyone know when checkboxes will be added to the survey? I"m using 7.5.24, and they aren't in there. I tried every question type.
19:33 <@rizen> 7.6.3
19:33 <@rizen> survey is completely rewritten
19:33 <@rizen> and contains multi-answer types
19:34 < elnino> is there a way to have two instances of webgui installed?
19:34 < elnino> on the same server. 
19:35 < elnino> oh. 7.6.3 sin't out yet...
19:36 < elnino> and if I remember correctly, 76 sn't stable until jan?
19:38 -!- ryuu_ro [n=rory@5ED1308E.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #webgui
19:41 <@rizen> there is a way to do it, but neither i nor any of my staff would ever tell you how to do it
19:42 <@rizen> because it's just a very terrible idea
19:42 <@rizen> yes, 7.6 will be stable in january
19:42 -!- ryuu_ro [n=rory@5ED1308E.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Client Quit]
19:43 < elnino> I won't hold you to the terrible idea.. I would like hear it, because by boss needs something now. Otherwise, we'll just use survey monkey. =(
19:44 < elnino> I could probably just write one.. but that would be a waste of time, since you guys rewrote it all.
19:45 <@rizen> elnino...seriously, i'm not going to tell you
19:45 <@rizen> it's so bad that i'd rather you use survey monkey
19:45 <@rizen> it = installing 2 webgui's on the same production server, not the new survey in 7.6
19:46 < elnino> if it's installing manually and changing the default installation location (from /data).. I've done that - our product is runnign that way... and I suspect that is what you were going to tell me....
19:47 <@rizen> that's not what i was going to tell you
19:47 <@rizen> and even if it was, i still wouldn't admit it
19:47 <@rizen> don't do it
19:47 <@rizen> you are in for a nightmare
19:47 < elnino> I know.
19:48 < elnino> and top it off, i did it on a 64 bit machine.
20:08 < topsub> sending message threw inbox has agroupId so that means i can send a message to everyone in a group?
20:39 -!- AMH_bob [n=AMH_bob@cp1320098-b.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has quit ["Leaving."]
21:06 < CIA-6> WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r8254 /tools/deArchiveCSPosts.pl: This script will dearchive posts for all CSs on a site from a given date.
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22:12 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ
22:12 <+perlDreamer> Should the sitemap generator create a sitemap for this url:  www.example.com/sitemap.xml/page2 ?
22:13 <@rizen> no
22:13 <@rizen> did frank mess up his regex?
22:14 <@rizen> and i believe it's siteindex.xml
22:14 <+perlDreamer> It's just missing an anchor at the end.
22:14 <+perlDreamer> $p =~ m/siteindex\.xml/i
22:14 <@rizen> you fixing or should i?
22:14 <+perlDreamer> I'll get it.
22:14 <@rizen> pd i have some amazing news for you
22:15 <+perlDreamer> You can hire me?
22:15 <@rizen> i discovered something (which you may have already known) 
22:15 <@rizen> "theshawshankredemption" is exactly 22 characters
22:15 <+perlDreamer> no way
22:15 <+perlDreamer> That's great!
22:15 <@rizen> i used it as a test guid today
22:15 <@rizen> in crud.t
22:15 <+perlDreamer> We have to do better than that
22:15 <+perlDreamer> It should be the UID for the root node.
22:15 <@rizen> oooh
22:15 <@preaction> it's sitemap.xml
22:16 <@rizen> except...that could screw with backward compatibility
22:16 <@rizen> so we'll have to wait until webgui 8 to do it
22:16 <+perlDreamer> preaction, that was a paste from the file
22:16 <@rizen> preaction? according to the spec on sitemaps.org?
22:16 <@preaction> i was reading the FAQ on google
22:17 <@preaction> which is a copy of http://sitemaps.org/protocol.php
22:18 <@rizen> it looks like khenn is a giant fuckup then =)
22:24 <+perlDreamer> Hey now, no khenn bashing.
22:24 <@rizen> you know what
22:24 <+perlDreamer> Yeah.  Nice guy.  Plays second base.
22:24 <@rizen> we could change the parentId of the root asset to "theshawshankredemption"
22:25 <+perlDreamer> What a great idea!
22:25 <@rizen> the problem is 2 fold though
22:25 <+perlDreamer> but what about backwards compatibility
22:25 <@rizen> nothing uses the parent id of root
22:25 <@rizen> so it's not an issue
22:25 <@rizen> however
22:26 <@rizen> 1) shawshank's playground is supposed to be in testing, not in the rest of webgui
22:26 <@rizen> 2) if we start using 'theshawshankredemption' out in regular webgui, then we can't use it as a testing guid
22:27 <@rizen> what do you say about that mr pd?
22:27 <+perlDreamer> Shawshank is so great it can transcend it's use as solely fodder for testing in this one instance.
22:28 <@rizen> see i was thinking we should use: thedarkknightisabadass
22:28 <@rizen> which is also 22 characters
22:28 <@rizen> =)
22:28 <@khenn> eh I had that bug fixed in one of my other 1000 copies of WebGUI.  I just pasted the wrong one =p
22:28 <@khenn> it was pointed out during the WUC
22:29 <+perlDreamer> whysoseriousbatmandude?
22:29 <@rizen> hehe
22:29 <+perlDreamer> -whysoseriousbatman-
22:29 <+perlDreamer> --batmandude has 24 characters.  I miscounted
22:30 <+perlDreamer> idonthaveherinmypants-
22:30 <@rizen> __why-so-serious-sa__
22:31 <@rizen> andimgonnagiveittoem-
22:32 -!- Bernd_ [n=spunky@tmo-100-32.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #webgui
22:33 < Bernd_> perlDreamer, have you seen the patches for the UsersOnline macro?
22:36 <+perlDreamer> No, Bernd_.  Are they attached to the bug report?
22:36 < Bernd_> Yes. There are two of them actually.
22:36 < Bernd_> One is for the testing function.
22:36 < Bernd_> The other is an upgrade script for creating a new profile field.
22:37 < Bernd_> Let me look up the URLs...
22:37 <+perlDreamer> I'll try to have both of them done by tonight.
22:37 <+perlDreamer> $dayJob is keeping me very busy these days
22:37 < Bernd_> Cool!
22:37 < Bernd_> Me, too!
22:37 < Bernd_> It is so stressful to be working again :-)
22:38 <+perlDreamer> Yeah
22:38 < Bernd_> So it's the same on the other side of the globe?
22:38 <+perlDreamer> Last Thursday, I worked 11 hours
22:38 <+perlDreamer> I worked 5 more on Saturday
22:38 <+perlDreamer> and on average, a 9-11 hours per day last week
22:38 < Bernd_> And how much on Sunday?
22:38 <+perlDreamer> I took sunday off
22:38 < Bernd_> Sounds great...
22:38 < Bernd_> for your employer!
22:39 < Bernd_> Do you want me to pitty you?
22:39 <+perlDreamer> indeed
22:39 < Bernd_> Sunday off?
22:39 <+perlDreamer> No, I want you to hire me to work on wG full time
22:39 < Bernd_> Hm, I am not sure if you would work for the salary I am able to pay.
22:39 < Bernd_> What is your regular job then?
22:40 <+perlDreamer> I design chips for batteries.
22:40 < Bernd_> Chips in batteries?
22:40 <+perlDreamer> Yeah
22:40 < Bernd_> For charging?
22:40 < Bernd_> Or what kind of chips?
22:40 <+perlDreamer> They keep track of serial numbers, monitor battery safety
22:40 <+perlDreamer> Do remaining capacity
22:40 < Bernd_> Oh, you mean like notebook and cell phone batteries?
22:41 < Bernd_> Does not sound too bad.
22:41 < Bernd_> Deadline ahead?
22:41 < Bernd_> Or what is keeping you busy?
22:41 <@rizen> perlDreamer: i'll offer you a job for $200k per year
22:41 <@rizen> but i can only hire you on a limited term contract of 1 week
22:41 <@rizen> =)
22:41 < Bernd_> Is that a $200 000?
22:42 <@preaction> perlbot math 200000 / 52
22:42 < perlbot> 3846.15384615385
22:42 <@preaction> uh... i'll take it
22:42 <@rizen> in that one week i need you to accomplish a year's worth of work
22:42 <@rizen> do we have a deal?
22:42 <@preaction> oh... now he says
22:42 <+perlDreamer> Bernd_: Deadline passed many weeks ago.
22:42 < Bernd_> What is the equivalent of a year's work?
22:42 <+perlDreamer> My part of the chip is finished
22:43 <+perlDreamer> but I'm trying to help others out now
22:43 <@rizen> 40*52 hours
22:43 < Bernd_> perlDreamer, but then time does not matter any longer!
22:43 < Bernd_> I mean, once you have started postponing it...
22:43 < Bernd_> you can do it again and again!
22:43 < Bernd_> That is how we usually handle it :-)
22:43 <+perlDreamer> Oh yes it does.  They later the chip is, the more the bosses start yelling and swearing
22:44 < Bernd_> I forgot you have a hire and fire system in the US.
22:44 < Bernd_> Not going to take more of your time.
22:44 < Bernd_> Need to get up early again.
22:45 < Bernd_> But something else concerning all the devs:
22:45 < Bernd_> Has anyone started to fix the UserList asset yet?
22:46 < Bernd_> If not I will be trying to fix it during my train ride home on Friday.
22:46 < Bernd_> So, anyone?
22:47 <+perlDreamer> I don't have any plans to work on the UserList asset.  You would be doing UK a favor by fixing it for them.
22:47 <+perlDreamer> You would do us all a favor if you rewrote it from scratch.
22:48 < Bernd_> Is it so bad?
22:48 <@preaction> there's even a Report framework you could use to rewrite it
22:49 <+perlDreamer> I don't think it's a question of badness, just lack of goodness.
22:49 < Bernd_> One momen, I was not talking about rewriting it.
22:49 < Bernd_> What is the reporting framework?
22:49 < Bernd_> Can that be done in about three hours?
22:49 <@preaction> an experimental piece i've written, and probably not three hours, no
22:49 < Bernd_> perlDreamer, that seems to be the same to me?!
22:50 < Bernd_> In that case, I am only going to attempt to fix it.
22:50 < Bernd_> Never mind.
22:50 <+perlDreamer> It's probably for the best.
22:50 <+perlDreamer> (just to fix)
22:50 < Bernd_> Alright.
22:50 < Bernd_> Let's see how far I can get.
22:50 < Bernd_> Good night!
22:50 <+perlDreamer> Gute Nacht
22:52 < nuba> i cant believe im reading this on wikipedia: "The issues of caging lists and other techniques of voter suppression which gave rise to many 2004 United States election voting controversies have not been addressed by further legislation or a regulatory crackdown, and are predicted by Greg Palast (an American BBC reporter who has investigated these controversies) to recur to the extent that they could swing the result.[11]"
22:52 < nuba> from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election,_2008
22:53 < nuba> is that accurate?
22:53 <@preaction> yes
22:53 <@preaction> 100% accurate
22:53 <@preaction> 20% of the voters were purged from voter rolls in one state
22:53 <@preaction> (for this election i mean, not 2004)
22:53 -!- Bernd_ [n=spunky@tmo-100-32.customers.d1-online.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
22:54 < nuba> also, am I understanding right that this election starts today and goes on for many weeks?
22:54 < nuba> so its not a single-day event?
22:55 <@preaction> no, you have until 8pm most places to vote
22:55 <@preaction> today
22:55 <@preaction> there was pre-voting, so-called "absentee ballots", but up to 50% of those are rejected for one reason or another
22:55 <+perlDreamer> nuba, it will take a while to count and double check all the counts.
22:55 <@preaction> usually the losing candidate concedes the election tonight
22:56 <@preaction> otherwise, yes, it will take a while
22:56 < nuba> no electronic ballot there?
22:56 <+perlDreamer> unless he pouts and throws a fit and tries to overturn it in the courts
22:56 <@preaction> nuba, yes, some are, but those electronic ballots have proven to be unreliable (and highly inaccurate)
22:57 <@preaction> in fact, in one state in 04, almost 5% of the votes for Kerry were counted for Bush, which is more than the percentage bush won that state by
22:57 <@preaction> http://www.truthout.org/110308A <- how mccain could win
22:57 < nuba> I once met the guy who was responsible for the criptographic routines (signing, hashing, etc) in the brazilian electronic ballot
22:58 < nuba> they're in production since 2000 or so.
22:58 < nuba> and there were some people from the US coming over every once in a while to see how it was going
22:58 < nuba> so i was hoping electronic ballots would be widely used in the US by now
22:59 <@Haarg> i don't really see the advantage to purely electronic voting
22:59 < nuba> its been working fine here, and there are some international entities who audit the process
22:59 <@preaction> i don't think the majority of the US has cared about democracy in a very long time
22:59 < apeiron> Ideally, electronic voting saves time. Ideally.
22:59 <@preaction> ha! international oversight is something we would NEVER accept
23:00 <@preaction> but it IS something that we NEED
23:00 <@tavisto> interesting how the controversies on that wikipedia page only include the incorrect purging of voters.. I wonder why it doesn't mention anything about registering new false voters as that's clearly a controversy as well.
23:00 <@preaction> tavisto, registering new false voters doesn't matter, as they can't vote
23:01 <@preaction> purging existing voters is a problem, since they can't vote
23:02 <@tavisto> I'm aware preaction, but false votes can easily be tallied when they're pooled into provisional vote pools
23:02 < nuba> oh just to clarify, international entities dont have sovereignity over the election process, they're just invited as independent auditors
23:02 <@tavisto> why do you think there was so much stink about the ACORN deal. If the votes had no chance of counting then it would make no sense to pull off the fraud.
23:03 <@preaction> provisional ballots don't get counted, even provisional ballots from legitimate people
23:03 <@Haarg> i don't really think electronic voting is much faster than a well designed ballot
23:03 < nuba> preaction: (im unsure if by oversight you mean having authority over the process)
23:03 <@preaction> nuba, i just mean auditing
23:03 < nuba> okay
23:03 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8255 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Content/SiteIndex.pm: anchor the URL for checking whether or not to generate a sitemap
23:03 <@tavisto> I think WebGUI should be used for all voting machines
23:04 < nuba> hah! then by unknown reasons it turns out a guy named JT was elected....
23:05 <@tavisto> Preaction, provisional ballots are counted but just not until a few days after the election night
23:05 <@tavisto> so if the race is too close based on regular eligible votes then these very much affect the election.
23:06 <@preaction> "The great unreported story of the 2004 election was that there were more than three million voters shunted to provisional ballots. Over a million (1,090,000) were never counted, just chucked in the dumpster."
23:06 <@tavisto> The scary thing is for the system is that the provisional votes cast really lack good methods of scrutiny and verification. According to both sides
23:06 <@Haarg> that's not really important preaction
23:07 <@Haarg> the reason they aren't counted is because they couldn't effect the outcome
23:07 <@preaction> uh... those were in battleground states where kerry lost by a small margin
23:08 <@preaction> anyway, instead of pontificating here, i'm going to go vote
23:08 <@tavisto> Yep, there were tons of votes that were tossed in 2004. If I remember right there were tons of ineligible votes for various reasons. It happens in every election. I'm not saying it's right and I'd like to see a better system.
23:09 <@Haarg> there are lots of other problems with the voting process
23:10 <@tavisto> absolutely. It's one big mess.
23:10 <@preaction> indeed, too much partisan play on both sides
23:11 <@tavisto> absolutely
23:11 <@preaction> which is why independant international oversight / auditing would benefit us immensely
23:11 <@preaction> in addition to spending money on better equipment
23:11 <@preaction> this won't happen, because partisan politics likes the fuzzy system
23:11 <@Haarg> the equipment doesn't even need to be very complex
23:12 <@tavisto> we need more prominent parties too. I'm tired of this left/right game.
23:12 <@rizen> i think the voting system should just be done away with and instead the "let JT decide" initiative should be enacted
23:13 <@Haarg> we'd probably need to get rid of plurality voting before third parties become viable
23:14 <@tavisto> I'd like to see the constitution party grow more. (and some other parties)
23:16 <+perlDreamer> Party at Tavisto's house
23:16 -!- topsub [n=josh@97.66.185.250] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
23:16 <@tavisto> sure, I have the campaign HQ party this year in my big ole' home theater
23:17 <@rizen> tavis, you're kidding, right?
23:17 <@rizen> about the constitution party?
23:18 <@rizen> the constitution party is the equivalent of the christian taliban
23:19 <@rizen> they want to do away with the democracy and replace it with a government rooted in biblical law
23:20 < nuba> sounds good.
23:20 <@tavisto> no, actually I'm not kidding. But that's quite a slant you are putting to it.
23:20 <+perlDreamer> that's not what wikipedia says about it
23:20 < nuba> whipping the wrongdoers? stoning them to death? AWESOME! ;)
23:20 <@tavisto> As any political platform expands into the mainstream it gets broader and a bit more mild
23:21 <@rizen> it say's that right on their web site
23:21 <@rizen> they want a theocracy
23:21 <+perlDreamer> links?
23:21 <@rizen> http://www.constitutionparty.com/
23:21 <@rizen> It is our goal to limit the federal government to its delegated, enumerated, Constitutional functions and to restore American jurisprudence to its original Biblical common-law foundations.
23:21 <@rizen> QUOTE FROM THEIR SITE
23:21 <@tavisto> but I like several of their core values so I'd like to see them continue to grow.
23:21 <@rizen> oops, sorry about the big letters
23:22 < nuba> well, i guess core values rooted on christianism is something very agreeable
23:23 <@tavisto> if you would read more into this and not jump to your 'Religilous' type response, you'd see they aren't as you're making them out to be. But they are definitely way more conservative than you'll ever vote. 
23:23 < nuba> another thing is having that enforced on you
23:23 <@rizen> agreeable to whom? religion is hate speech. (not talking about belief in god, talking about organized religion)
23:23 <@tavisto> The proper and lawful division of governmental authority among the Federal, State and local governments was an arrangement that the Founders rightly saw as necessary to preserving freedom and justice. Only after that federal, constitutional order is restored to its proper balance can we reverse America's slide into lawlessness, corruption and tyranny.
23:23 <@tavisto> The Constitution Party is the only party which is completely pro-life, pro-gun, pro-American sovereignty and independence, and in favor of a strong national defense. It is also the only party that is anti-globalist, anti-free trade, anti-deindustrialization, and anti-unchecked immigration. We also oppose special rights for homosexuals, the constantly increasing expansion of unlawful police laws,and both foreign aid and milita
23:23 < nuba> rizen: i like the "be nice to your neighbour" thingy
23:23 <+perlDreamer> Love your neighbor
23:23 < nuba> leave his wife alone
23:23 <+perlDreamer> Take care of the widow and the orphan
23:23 < nuba> dont take his lawnmower without asking
23:23 < nuba> that kind of thing
23:24 <@tavisto> yep, loving your neighbor is exactly the right phrase. And that's biblical baby.
23:24 <@rizen> you want to make love with my neighbor
23:24 <@rizen> i can tell you he's not that way
23:25 <@tavisto> I dont see the word "make" in my sentence above.
23:26 <@rizen> hehe
23:26 <@tavisto> But more parties competing in our elections and in our government would be a good thing.
23:27 <@rizen> first 2 sentences from their party platform: The Constitution Party gratefully acknowledges the blessing of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as Creator, Preserver and Ruler of the Universe and of these United States. We hereby appeal to Him for mercy, aid, comfort, guidance and the protection of His Providence as we work to restore and preserve these United States.
23:27 <@rizen> tell me they don't want a theocracy
23:27 <+perlDreamer> If Obama says that during the national prayer breakfast, I'm going to call you on it ;)
23:27 <@rizen> second paragraph: This great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been and are afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.
23:27 <@rizen> tell me they wouldn't engage in crusades
23:28 < nuba> its a pattern, tho, that once a economic crisis sets in, people's political views swing towards, well, not very friendly parties
23:28 < nuba> like Germany
23:28 -!- khenn_ [n=khenn@97.92.186.139] has joined #WebGUI
23:28 < nuba> Italy
23:28 < nuba> did
23:29 <@tavisto> Exaggeration on your part. You know Christianity and Jesus are deeply rooted in the founding of our country. And since you don't believe it sounds extreme to you.
23:30 <@rizen> They actually aren't deeply rooted in the founding of our country. Certainly religious freedom is. But many of the founding fathers were athiests
23:32 <+perlDreamer> Given how we're arguing about religion, this seems ironic: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081104/wl_nm/us_religion_dialogue
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23:33 < nuba> well, christian values pretty much percolated thru the building of our western civilization
23:34 < nuba> in south and central america there's still plenty of mix between religion and state
23:34 <+perlDreamer> I'm not sure rizen objects to christian values, just to theocratic extremes and religious prejudice
23:34 <@rizen> i don't at all object to christian values
23:34 <@rizen> or muslim values
23:34 <@rizen> or Buddhist values
23:35 <@rizen> values are a good thing
23:35 <@rizen> morality is a good thing
23:35 <@rizen> extremism, in any form, is a bad thing
23:35 <@rizen> hate is a bad thing
23:35 <@rizen> war is a bad thing
23:35 <@rizen> intollerance is a bad thing
23:35 < nuba> im uneducated about other religions' values, but I can assume they pretty much contribute to their follower's growth and I suppose at the core they're all good in providing guidelines
23:36 <@rizen> for the average person, i'm certain that belief in a deity helps them through the tough times
23:37 <@rizen> but i also know that the zealots that are in power of religious organizations
23:37 <@rizen> often abuse their power
23:37 <@rizen> and their followers often follow blindly
23:37 <@rizen> it's true of both religion and politics
23:37 <@rizen> because, as i see it, they are the same
23:38 < nuba> that could be said of sports fanatics to some extent, too
23:38 < nuba> the masses
23:38 < nuba> some people know how to play 'em
23:38 <@tavisto> I think that's a load of crap. While you might see that on a black/white level
23:38 < nuba> and these are dangerous guys
23:39 <@tavisto> my relationship with Jesus and God is not followed blindly and it surely isn't something on a level as my political beliefs.
23:40 < juan> i have the next error when i run the next job Send Queued Email Messages Every 5 Minutes
23:40 < juan> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m33109496
23:40 < juan> so i have many email stored in my database
23:40 < nuba> oops. a on-topic issue! dammit. just when religious debate was about to get interesting!... ;)
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23:42 <@preaction> if a workflow is undefined, it might mean the workflow is disabled
23:43 < elnino> preaction: registering false voters DOES matter - they don't do checking afterwards, nor do they tie the ballot to a person, so they can't throw the vote out if they find out that it was an illegal vote. It gets counted!
23:43 < juan> the workflow is enabled
23:44 <@preaction> elnino, i'm just saying that the person has to show a photo ID at the polling place, you can't just register and have a vote count, you have to have a person to vote
23:44 <@preaction> there is the mail-in / provisional thing as well, yes
23:45 <@preaction> both of those loopholes need to be closed. both to count bad votes or to deny good ones
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23:45 <@rizen> tavisto: i said nothing about your relationship with god
23:45 <@rizen> i was talking about your relationship with your religion
23:45 <@rizen> they are two different things
23:45 <@preaction> i would say, like the criminal justice system, if we have to choose, it's better to let bad votes in than to let good votes die
23:45 < elnino> I dont' want international oversight on our voting. What the international want is not necessarily good for US. - just a little late in this non-webgui related conversation- go vote if you haven't! 
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23:49 <@tavisto> Rizen, we dont need to repeat this debate considering you and I have a history of like 15 years of doing it.
23:50 <@tavisto> Just realize, you're wrong, go to church blindly and be a sheep as you suggest, and join the constitutional party. The world will be a better place. Amen
23:51 <@tavisto> Oooh and release the new matrix so I can get more ad money. Amen
23:51 < elnino> I don't know. Our govenement was build with checks and balances in it. With a democratic majority in the house and senate, it only makes sense to have a republican in place for the "check and balance" The majority of the "work" of the governement is done in congress. 
23:51 <+perlDreamer> Yeah, new Matrix
23:51 <@tavisto> ooh and I want a pony. amen
23:52 < elnino> preaction - yes, ID should be shown, that would help. I"m still catching up on the thread  =)
23:53 < elnino> there is a lot to be improved upon, but the system was designed very well - kudo to our founding fathers.
23:53  * preaction going voting
23:53 <@rizen> tavisto: just agree that religion must die for humanity to survive and i'll buy you a pony and release matrix 2.0. =)
23:55 <@tavisto> humanity won't survive. There's an end to it. And then there could be more depending on the choices you make while you (and it) is here.
23:56 <@tavisto> But maybe perldreamer would agree to that so we can get the new matrix.
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--- Day changed Wed Nov 05 2008
00:00 <+perlDreamer> BartJol, I have an i18n bug for you to fix
00:00 < BartJol> for me?
00:00 < BartJol> ok
00:00 <+perlDreamer> I keep getting your vacation email notice in Dutch
00:01 <+perlDreamer> It needs to do an IP check on the respondant and send them an appropriately i18n'ed message ;)
00:01 < BartJol> strange, mormally it is send only once
00:01 < BartJol> :)
00:01 <+perlDreamer> Yes, once per vacation.
00:01 <+perlDreamer> That means twice in 3 months
00:01 < BartJol> you donn't wanna know that I'm free?
00:02 <+perlDreamer> Free?
00:02 <+perlDreamer> Like no cost?
00:02 <+perlDreamer> or not working?
00:02 < BartJol> not working
00:02 < BartJol> normally I'm not that expensive
00:02 < BartJol> depends on the job
00:03 <+perlDreamer> I might need a low-cost website design.  You interested?
00:03 < BartJol> if you want it to be visible it was cheap, I might be you man
00:04 < BartJol> depends also whther you arrange it via ProcoliX or not
00:04 <+perlDreamer> Koen will charge me karma for it, so might be best to work with you directly ;)
00:05  * perlDreamer heads to the showers, bbl
00:05 < BartJol> so you have plenty of time and want a really ugly design?
00:05 <+perlDreamer> ugly design?  I thought you were a designer who became a programmer?
00:05 < BartJol> no a translator
00:06 <+perlDreamer> oh
00:06 < BartJol> but I have designed a website
00:06 < BartJol> and my own: www.bartjol.nl and webgui.bartjol.nl
00:07 <+perlDreamer> dude, you have hair in that picture!
00:07 <+perlDreamer> ok, I'm really going to the showers now
00:10 <@rizen> ok need opinion quick from devs that are here
00:10 <@rizen> i'm thinking about rewriting the SyndicatedContent asset this weekend
00:10 <@rizen> just for something to do
00:11 <@rizen> and i'm trying to decide between two modules:
00:11 <@rizen> http://search.cpan.org/~kawasaki/XML-FeedPP-0.36/lib/XML/FeedPP.pm
00:11 <@rizen> http://search.cpan.org/~simonw/XML-Feed-0.23/lib/XML/Feed.pm
00:11 <@rizen> the first is a pure perl version
00:11 <@rizen> the second relies on a dozen or so other libraries
00:12 <@rizen> the first is slower than the second, not that it really matters for our purposes
00:12 < BartJol> mmm, I'm not dev enough, but I do have a night of election news to go
00:12 <@rizen> the first is a self contained, small module, the second is enormous
00:12 <@rizen> the second may be more standards compliant, because it's built on the shoulders of giants
00:13 <@rizen> they both seem equally easy to use
00:13 <@rizen> both support RSS 2, 1, .9
00:13 <@rizen> both support Atom feeds
00:13 <@rizen> the programmer in me tells me to use the one that uses a billion modules
00:14 <@rizen> the sys admin in me tells me to use the pure perl one because it will use a lot less memory
00:14 <@preaction> which of those dozen do we already use?
00:14 <@rizen> we use about 1/3 of the dozen
00:14 <@rizen> maybe as much as 1/2
00:14 <@rizen> but certainly not more than that
00:15 <@Haarg> XML::Atom doesn't want to install for me
00:16 <@rizen> i got both to install
00:16 <@rizen> however XML::Atom does look like a pile
00:17 <@rizen> any thoughts, opinions, scathing rebuttle?
00:17 <@preaction> heh, simonw just uploaded XML::Feed 0.3 :: [16:17] * CPAN2 upload: XML-Feed-0.3 by SIMONW
00:18 <@rizen> oh and the reason i'm talking about using these two because they both have a super sweet way of merging feeds
00:18 <@preaction> depending on the amount used, most likely the XML::Feed will be more advantageous than the PP one
00:18 <@rizen> and because they both support both RSS and Atom
00:18 <@preaction> er.. amount of memory used
00:19 <@preaction> do those modules also generate feeds?
00:19 <@rizen> i guess i could write a script that tries them both out and see how big the memory difference is
00:19 <@rizen> yes
00:19 <@preaction> so whichever wins we can remove some of the other RSS modules once we create the RSSCapable aspect
00:20 <@preaction> so the total memory use might remain the same with the bigger one
00:20 <@rizen> yes
00:20 <@rizen> we'll be removing all the other RSS modules
00:20 <@rizen> but that has nothing to do with which one we choose
00:21 <@rizen> or at least shouldn't
00:21 <@rizen> i'm going to quickly write a script for each
00:21 <@rizen> and see how they do
00:23 -!- apeiron is now known as voteobama
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00:32 <@rizen> ok so XML::Feed is 25% larger than XML::FeedPP
00:32 <@rizen> i suppose i should factor out perl's memory usage before i give that percentage
00:32 <@rizen> hold please
00:34 <@rizen> ok on a simple script XML::Feed is 30% larger than FeedPP
00:35 <@rizen> however
00:35 <@rizen> XML::Feed lazyloads it's prereqs
00:35 <@rizen> which means that in practice it will get bigger
00:35 <@Haarg> XML::Feed also monkey patches XML::Atom
00:36 <@rizen> XML::Feed appears to be a good module...but unfortunately it's prereq libraries are pretty terrible
00:37 <@rizen> ok from this overwhelming response, i'm going with XML::FeedPP
00:37 <@preaction> how much slower is it? just a bit or quite a bit?
00:37 <@rizen> both Haarg and I are leaning that way, and it appears to just be better
00:38 <@rizen> not noticably
00:38 <@rizen> both scripts run in under a second
00:38 <@rizen> the reason i said it would be slower is simply because it's pure perl
00:38 <@preaction> good enough for me then
00:38 <@rizen> but i'll do a Time::HiRes check on them both right now
00:38 <@rizen> to see
00:38 <@preaction> use Benchmark instead?
00:38 <@preaction> it's easier, imho
00:39 < voteobama> How large is the test data set, though?
00:43 <@rizen> ok at least on a quick test the pp one is nearly half a second faster
00:44 <@preaction> should the syndicated content asset be checking for cache integrity? as in, if the cache returns a bad object, the syndicated content asset dies (and takes the rest of the page with it)
00:45 <+perlDreamer> how about if it just logs a message and sends an email to doug@plainblack.com instead?
00:45 <@preaction> are you threatening me? i'll have your head for this!
00:45 <@rizen> XML::Feed time: 0.236068
00:46 <@rizen> XML::FeedPP time: 0.052435
00:46 <@rizen> that's after taking network out of it
00:46 <@preaction> dear jesus
00:46 <+perlDreamer> Has anyone rated the two modules on CPAN?
00:46 <@rizen> just loading the file from the filesystem
00:46 <@rizen> both are rated
00:46 <+perlDreamer> Are there bugs logged against them that are regularly fixed?
00:47 <@rizen> both have open bugs
00:47 <+perlDreamer> Tests suites?  CPAN smoke results?
00:47 <@rizen> both see regular fixes
00:47 <@rizen> though PP is fixed more regularly
00:47 <@rizen> but it's also newer
00:47 <@rizen> so that's to be expected
00:48 <@rizen> both have nice test suites
00:48 <@preaction> i put my vote in for XML::FeedPP
00:48 <@rizen> though PP has way more tests
00:48 <+perlDreamer> XML::FeedPP++
00:48 <@preaction> well, it also handles more internally, as opposed to relying on external modules (which have their own test suites)
00:48 <@rizen> both pass on over 20 systems
00:49 <@rizen> true preaction
00:49 <@rizen> ok XML::FeedPP it is
00:49 <@rizen> seems to have votes from everyone who has chimed in
00:50 <+perlDreamer> hm
00:50 <+perlDreamer> 9 devs in the room
00:50 <+perlDreamer> 3 votes
00:50 <+perlDreamer> 33% turnout
00:50 <@preaction> 4
00:50 <+perlDreamer> 4?
00:50 <@preaction> my vote counts damnit
00:50 <+perlDreamer> rizen, perlDreamer, preaction and...
00:51 <@preaction> rizen, haarg, perlDreamer, preaction 
00:51 <+perlDreamer> 4/9 is 44% turnout
00:51 <+perlDreamer> (sorry, Haarg)
00:51 <@preaction> that's not bad
00:51 <+perlDreamer> Let's hope the American voters do better
00:51 <@preaction> probably better than today's national election
00:52 <+perlDreamer> maybe we should require a double majority
00:52 <+perlDreamer> that would get people to turn out for the presidential election
00:52 <@preaction> not really. you can't make people care
00:53 < BartJol> I would vote, but they don't let me...
00:53 <@preaction> conscript armies have never worked
00:53 <@preaction> BartJol, you could fill out a provisional ballot, just don't expect it to get counted
00:53 < BartJol> mmm, my friend that would come by an hour ago isn't here yet
00:54 < BartJol> or he's drunk, or doesn't understand how my doorbell works (we have 1 downstairs and one at our front door on the 11th)
00:54 <@rizen> BartJol, I voted on your behalf
00:55 < BartJol> ah
00:55 < BartJol> thanks
00:55 <@rizen> instead of casting my ballot for me, which is what i would have done, i cast it for who you wanted to vote for
00:55 <@rizen> =)
00:55 < BartJol> and, was it the vaginal douche or the turd sandwich?
00:56 <@rizen> the vaginal douche of course
00:56 <@preaction> the people have spoken, and we want four more years of Douchebag!
00:56 <@rizen> at least it will be clean when we're done
00:56 < BartJol> ah, who do I want to vote for?
00:56 <@rizen> BartJol, when you were here I'm pretty sure you said Obama.
00:57 <@rizen> XML::FeedPP is so damn cool that I think the whole Syndicated Content asset could be written in about 1/4 the code
00:57 < BartJol> rizen: ok your memory is ok
00:58 <+perlDreamer> with tests?
00:59 <@rizen> no the tests would take a bit more...but not much
01:00 <@rizen> since the module itself is doing most of the work
01:00 <@rizen> not many tests would have to be written
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01:07 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8256 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm: get setRow to work with field names with non-word characters
01:07 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8257 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (SQL.pm SQL/ResultSet.pm): document return values of WebGUI::SQL->write and WebGUI::SQL::ResultSet->execute
01:07 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8258 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetLineage.pm): sped up lineage changes significantly
01:07 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8259 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.6.1-7.6.2.pl: don't add javascript i18n content handler if it already exists
01:07 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8260 /WebGUI/t/Mail/Send.t: turn off email to log properly for mail tests
01:07 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8261 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (AssetLineage.pm Cache/Database.pm Operation/Friends.pm): fix lineage cache clearing, syntax warning, db cache storable usage
01:07 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8262 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: not allowed to add calendar events if in can edit group but not can add event group
01:07 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8263 /WebGUI/t/Asset/File/GalleryFile/Photo/view.t: update Gallery Photo test to reflect proper template variables
01:07 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8264 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Wobject/DataTable.t: fix DataTable test
01:07 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8265 /WebGUI/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.6.2 release
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01:28 <+perlDreamer> rizen: Do you want me to fix the naming problem with SiteIndex, too?
01:29 <@rizen> sure
01:29 <@rizen> although graham is in mid-release right now i think
01:29 <@Haarg> just a sec
01:30 <+perlDreamer> okay
01:30 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, it might be better if you fix it yourself then.
01:30 <+perlDreamer> It's one less untracked/off time commit
01:30 <+perlDreamer> Because I don't think we should release it when it doesn't work right
01:30 <@Haarg> release is already done though
01:30 <@Haarg> what is the issue?
01:30 <@rizen> perlDreamer: that's what betas are for
01:31 <+perlDreamer> Naming problem with Content/SiteIndex.pm
01:31 <@rizen> pd it will go into the next release
01:31 <@rizen> your fix i mean
01:31 <+perlDreamer> s/siteindex/sitemap/;
01:31 <@rizen> he's already got the release done
01:31 <+perlDreamer> ah
01:31 <+perlDreamer> okay
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01:44 < BartJol> strange, updat gives an error that it failed, but it did work
01:45 < BartJol> www_bartjol_nl 7.6.1-7.6.2
01:45 < BartJol>         Backing up www_bartjol_nl (7.6.1)...OK
01:45 < BartJol>         Correcting the Manage Workflow link in configuration file... DONE!
01:45 < BartJol>         Adding a pre-text property to Thingy fields... DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Duplicate column name 'pretext' at ../lib/WebGUI/SQL/ResultSet.pm line 137.
01:45 < BartJol> <h1>Problem With Request</h1>
01:45 < BartJol>                 We have encountered a problem with your request. Please use your back button and try again.
01:45 < BartJol>                 If this problem persists, please contact us with what you were trying to do and the time and date of the problem.<br /><br />Bart Jol<br />bart@bartjol.nl<br />http://www.bartjol.nlLabel not found for "last WEBGUI_FATAL" at ../lib/WebGUI/Session/ErrorHandler.pm line 235.
01:45 < BartJol>         Processing upgrade executable failed!
01:45 < BartJol> The upgrade process failed and has stopped so you can either restore
01:45 < BartJol> from backup, or attempt to fix the problem and continue.
01:45 < BartJol> oops
01:46 <@tavisto> I noticed that google sitemap was added in 7.6.2. Is this configurable through an interface?
01:46 <@tavisto> er siteindex
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01:49 < CIA-6> WebGUI: jt * r8266 /releases/WebGUI_7.6.2-beta: Release 7.6.2-beta
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01:51 < BartJol> mmm it first went through the same process for the same site and then it was ok
01:51 <@rizen> tavisto: no, it's just auto generated
01:51 <@rizen> it may eventually be turned into an asset
01:52 < BartJol> ah, it sees 2 config files
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01:59 <@tavisto> ah okay, so it just takes the pages in the site and formats them to be included in the site index automatically?
02:00 <@tavisto> for instance if I have a site with 30 pages, how does it know which pages to include or does it include them all by default?
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02:08 < elnino> when I submit a request using a dataform shouldn't I recieve an acknowledgement email?
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02:11 <@preaction> only if you're in the to, cc, or bcc field
02:16 < elnino> i'm in the "from"...  and there is a template for "achknowledgement"  - OH. I guess that isn't an ackknowledgement email template. my bad. Sounds like a good rfe.  I'll post one. =)
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03:19 <@rizen> BartJol: sarah says *kiss*
03:20 <@rizen> tavisto: sorry i didn't get back to you
03:20 <@rizen> it puts in all pages that are visible by "Everybody"
03:20 < BartJol> rizen: thanks
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03:28 < SDuensin> Evening.
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03:45 < Radix-wrk> Hmm.. I need to create a webgui group that consists of all the users in an existing group that don't have the user profile flag 'opt out from mailing list' checked.
03:45 <@preaction> build it from an SQL query perhaps?
03:46 < Radix-wrk> yeah, that's what I was thinking.. was going to ask if that was going to work
03:46 < Radix-wrk> then I can use the email all users in this group option to send update emails to those users
03:46 <@preaction> should work
03:47 < Radix-wrk> okey.. just need to work on the sql query then
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03:48 < Radix-wrk> thanks preaction.. just needed confirmation from someone that I was down the right track :)
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04:16 < Radix-wrk> okey.. this _seems_ to work.. but the numbers of optouts don't add up.. so I'm definitely missing something.. anyone care to check my sql syntax?
04:17 < Radix-wrk> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m281bef74
04:18 <@preaction> Radix-wrk, what about when that column IS NULL?
04:19 < Radix-wrk> shouldn't c.fieldData<>1 cater for that?
04:19 <@preaction> no
04:19 < Radix-wrk> Oh.. there goes my logic then
04:19 <@preaction> it's a quirk with NULL in MySQL
04:20 <@preaction> essentially, any test against NULL is false
04:20 <@preaction> except for "IS NULL"
04:20 < Radix-wrk> so what's the check in sql - 'c.fieldData=0 or c.fieldData is null'
04:20 <@preaction> try it, it sounds like it should work
04:21 < Radix-wrk> add some parens and it works a treat.. sweet.. returned 4503 rows
04:22 < Radix-wrk> cheers.. didn't know the gotcha with nulls
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04:48 < Radix-wrk> Hmm.. how often does the 'User Count' change in the group list for sql groups?
04:48 < CIA-6> WebGUI: patspam * r8267 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Added 2 new convenience Operators: IsEmpty and IsNotEmpty
04:48 < CIA-6> WebGUI: patspam * r8268 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Add new report table (and sql file), and the survey now does reporting.
04:48 < CIA-6> WebGUI: patspam * r8269 /branch/WebGUI_flux/Survey.sql: Added missing field to db schema: groupToEditSurvey
04:48 < CIA-6> WebGUI: patspam * r8270 /branch/WebGUI_flux/survey_templates.wgpkg: Individual templates probably don't need to be enabled as individual packages
04:48 < CIA-6> WebGUI: patspam * r8271 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (lib/WebGUI/Flux/Rule.pm t/Flux/Rule.t): 
04:48 < CIA-6> WebGUI: Squashed a bug where Flux wouldn't update dateRuleFirstTrue for a rule that was previously false
04:48 < CIA-6> WebGUI: Added a test case to explicitly test this for future regressions.
04:48 < CIA-6> WebGUI: patspam * r8272 /branch/WebGUI_flux/t/Crypt/Crypt.t: Improved WebGUI::Crypt tests
04:49 <@preaction> Radix-wrk, there's a "cache groups for how long" setting in the group configuration, that's how often
04:50 < Radix-wrk> but that indicates how long it's been cached for, no?
04:50 < Radix-wrk> at the moment my new groups say 0
04:50 <@preaction> oh, SQL groups don't have any real members
04:51 < Radix-wrk> so wondering if the sql got mangled somehow in the group
04:51 <@preaction> a person's membership is calculated as necessary
04:51 < Radix-wrk> Any way I can test to see if it's working?
04:51 <@preaction> make a group that has you and only you and try to send an e-mail to it?
04:51 <@preaction> or use the "emailOverride" setting in the config to make sure only you get the e-mails?
04:52 < Radix-wrk> Hmm..
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06:47 < CIA-6> WebGUI: patspam * r8273 /Too many paths: Merge branch '7.6.2-beta' into flux
06:47 < CIA-6> WebGUI: patspam * r8274 /branch/WebGUI_flux/www/extras/wobject/Survey/administersurvey.js: Merge branch 'survey2' into flux
06:47 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8275 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Content/SiteIndex.pm: correct sitemap name in site index generator
06:48 -!- voteobama is now known as apeiron
06:53 < Radix-wrk> Congratulations President Obama - 44th President of the USA
07:01 <@perlmonkey2> Holy crap this is an incredible night.
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07:19 <+perlDreamer> whoa, where did everyone go
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07:21 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8276 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 
07:21 < CIA-6> WebGUI: Add the profile field needed by the UsersOnline macro.
07:21 < CIA-6> WebGUI: Internationalized the profile field label.
07:21 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8277 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt t/Macro/UsersOnline.t): Update the UsersOnline test so that all tests pass.
07:21 < Radix-wrk> hey PD
07:22 < Radix-wrk> A black skinny kid with a funny name is now President of the USA :)
07:23 <@preaction> amen to that
07:23 < Radix-wrk> Both very good speeches tho.. from McCain and Obama
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08:56 < Radix-wrk> HAHAHA - http://www.flickr.com/photos/meghanplowman/3004092303/in/pool-perth_photo
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14:53 < nuba> what? hussein is the new US president? didnt they kill the guy for hiding WMD in somewherekistan?
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17:29 <@tavisto> let me say that the new YUI tabs are damn sexy. Excellent job guys
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18:24 < ckotil> Is there a good way to see which user trashed an asset?
18:25 <@preaction> the stateChangedBy field in the assets table i think
18:25 < ckotil> ok. ive already restored it tho. so that info is probably gone now?>
18:27 <@Haarg> it will be in the assetHistory table
18:28 < ckotil> ok nice.
18:28 < ckotil> thanks
18:31 < ckotil> that is a very useful table.
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18:55 <+perlDreamer> Smoke tests didn't run on webgui.org last night.
18:58 <@rizen> that's cuz preaction is a bad girl
18:58 <@preaction> says who/
18:59 <+perlDreamer> preaction has mongo cojones, senor
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18:59 <+perlDreamer> and the world's only WebGUI tie
18:59 <+perlDreamer> chicks dig the tie
18:59 <@preaction> my smoke tests got run, what happened to yours, rizen?
19:00 <@rizen> what do you mean mine?
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19:00 <@rizen> yours are the ones that are supposed to do everything now
19:00 <@preaction> ah
19:00 <@preaction> doesnt do the nightly build though
19:00 <@rizen> what does your do then?
19:01 <@rizen> what's the point of running an extra box if it's not on the current svn head?
19:01 <@preaction> it is, it runs tests against SVN Head, and it could do the nightly build and upload it to plainblack.com
19:01 <+perlDreamer> they ran yesterday before the upgrade
19:01 <@preaction> it also tests against the old stable branch
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19:27 <+perlDreamer> preaction, the SVN smoke test says that there is an error in test #8 of the syntax check test.
19:27 <+perlDreamer> I can't duplicate that
19:27 <+perlDreamer> Could you run it by hand and post what's up?
20:00 <@tavisto> perlDreamer, when you installed WebGUI on your Fedora laptop, which release did you use?
20:00 <@tavisto> of RHEL, the latest?
20:01 <+perlDreamer> Fedora 9.  I don't use RHEL.
20:01 <@tavisto> yeah but when you installed WebGUI I mean, what version of the WRE did you use
20:01 <+perlDreamer> No WRE
20:01 <+perlDreamer> source install
20:01 <@tavisto> oh poop
20:01 <+perlDreamer> Just like Mom used to do it.
20:02 <@tavisto> well you are no help to me
20:02 <+perlDreamer> I know y'all love the WRE, but if you want to get into the distributions you'll need to get used to native installs
20:02 <+perlDreamer> What's the problem that you're having?
20:02 <@tavisto> there are platform specific notes in the WRE install but I was asked what WRE build someone should use if they're installing on Fedora
20:02 <@tavisto> and I don't think I've been asked that before.
20:02 <+perlDreamer> RHEL 5
20:02 <@tavisto> I did see your email about how there are only 12 modules missing or outdated for WebGUI
20:03 <+perlDreamer> yeah, but that's for a native install
20:03 <+perlDreamer> I think that RHEL 5 is compatible with Fedora 9
20:03 <@tavisto> that's great news and I have an email from JT with the contact of a guy who volunteered to work on that. Need to send a followup email
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20:03 <@tavisto> alright, I'll include that in my response then
20:03 <@preaction> perlDreamer, "my" variable $q1 masks earlier declaration in same scope at /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/POE/Component/IKC/Server.pm line 807.
20:03 <+perlDreamer> hm
20:03 <+perlDreamer> thanks, preaction
20:03 <+perlDreamer> I didn't anticipate that it would be a requirement
20:04 <+perlDreamer> but as long as all else is well :)
20:04 <@preaction> i'm updating that module now
20:06 <+perlDreamer> preaction, in case I haven't said it lately, thank you for setting up and maintaining that test server
20:06 <+perlDreamer> I know it's been a royal pain sometimes
20:13 <@Haarg> i guess that's something i didn't anticipate with the syntax check changes
20:14 <@Haarg> If it comes up again in the future I'll have to add a filter so it only pays attension to compile warnings in our modules
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20:24 <@rizen> if i have to choose between getting into distros or using the wre, i think i choose wre
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20:26 < SDuensin> WRE!
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20:29 <@tavisto> JT had a typo.. he meant getting into the Discos. He's a dance machine
20:30 <@tavisto> does a mean worm for sure
20:31 <+perlDreamer> 8 billion debian users can't be all wrong
20:31 <+perlDreamer> except for not using Fedora
20:31 <+perlDreamer> bopbop: postcards should be mailed tomorrow
20:31 <@bopbop> great, thanks perldreamer! I appreciate your help.
20:31 <+perlDreamer> I'm "inviting" Peter and Tim to write one as well
20:31 <@bopbop> oh, Brennan will like that :)
20:32 < SDuensin> Go go Debian & Gang!  I run my empire with Ubuntu.
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21:50 < knowmad> has anyone noticed that the tabs in data form are no longer movable?
21:51 < knowmad> i've got a demo site that exhibits this behavior -- http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1225914329_522/home/untitled-data-form 
21:51 < knowmad> try moving tab1 to tab2; looks like it works but then refresh the page and it's back the way it was
21:51 < knowmad> filing a bug report
21:53 < metanil> how do we specify a default template for a particular asset?
21:54 <@rizen> metanil, you have to create a prototype
21:54 < knowmad> use a prototype
21:54 <@rizen> or in 7.6 you can override the default in the config file
21:54 < knowmad> dang, beat  me to the punch
21:54 < metanil> :o
21:54 < metanil> prototype?
21:55 <@rizen> metadata tab of the asset
21:57 < metanil> i didn't really get it rizen (sorry about that).
21:57 <@rizen> step 1
21:57 <@rizen> add the asset that you want to add
21:57 <@rizen> from the new content menu
21:57 <@rizen> step 2 
21:57 <@rizen> go to the metadata tab
21:57 <@rizen> step 3
21:57 <@rizen> set "yes" on "make prototype?"
21:57 <@rizen> step 4
21:58 <@rizen> click "save"
21:58 <@rizen> now you have a prototype
22:00 < metanil> I am creating asset by $asset->addChild({classname=>"WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Folder"............}):
22:01 <@rizen> oh
22:01 <@rizen> sorry, thought you were "using" webgui
22:01 <@rizen> you're programming
22:01 <@rizen> so if you want to set a template then you find out what the field is called
22:01 <@rizen> look in the definition of the asset
22:01 <@rizen> the default one is usually called templateId
22:02 < metanil> oh .. i see.
22:03 < metanil> like this one defaultValue => 'PBtmpl0000000000000078', namespace=>'Folder',
22:03 <@rizen> yup
22:03 <@rizen> so you can leave it that if you like
22:03 <@rizen> or you can override it
22:03 <@rizen> in addChild()
22:04 < metanil> rizen, this will only apply during the creation of asset, if i somehow changed in manually to different, then it doesn't matter.
22:04 < metanil> i manual change will override this default one.. (obviously). :)
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22:35 < BartJo1> so 7.6.2 is dutch, mmm, starnge way to spend my vacation
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22:51 <+perlDreamer> Michael Crichton is dead
22:52 < BartJo1> ah, is that the influence of Obama, or is Bush making some final statements?
22:52 <+perlDreamer> I think it was some alien nano-virus
22:52 <@bopbop> or cancer
22:52 < BartJo1> oops, bad joke again, maybe I should just go drinking
22:58 < BartJo1> so everybody here satified with the resuts of yesterday?
22:58 <@bopbop> yes yes yes
22:58 <@bopbop> yes
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22:59 < BartJo1> :)
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23:01 < juan> hi
23:02 < juan> i have many attachements in a post, and i want ot sort them again, how can i do that?
23:02 <+perlDreamer> juan, there is no particular order that post attachments are put in.
23:03 < juan> there is no change to do it
23:07 < BartJo1> juan: do you have multiple attachements in a single post? in that case I would have to agree with perlDraemer
23:09 <+perlDreamer> juan, one potential work around would be to use some javascript to do it
23:13 <@rizen> perlDreamer: just because Michael Crichton didn't write Shawshank, doesn't mean you had to kill him
23:15 < juan> yes, i have about 50 attachements in a single post
23:17 < juan> perlDreamer, put  a javascript in the template?
23:17 <+perlDreamer> yes
23:18 <+perlDreamer> since the order of the attachments is random, use the template to build a javascript array and then sort it
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23:50 < CIA-8> WebGUI: graham * r8278 /WebGUI/ (lib/WebGUI.pm docs/previousVersion.sql): update versions to 7.6.3
--- Day changed Thu Nov 06 2008
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00:16 < metanil> in templateId, there is defaultvalue and namespace.. what is actually mean by namespace??
00:17 <@preaction> metanil, the namespace of the template. see WebGUI::Form::Template and WebGUI::Asset::Template for more information
00:18 <@preaction> think of it as a way to label what template is used with which page
00:18 < metanil> thanks
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00:51 <+perlDreamer> bopbop, I need a second opinion for a label.  You have a sec?
00:53 <@bopbop> sure perldreamer
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01:06 <+perlDreamer> related to this bug: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/9002
01:06 <+perlDreamer> I originally put in a label that said: Add a variant
01:07 <+perlDreamer> Steve changed it to the English text: Set sku and price
01:07 <@bopbop> looking at bug-sec
01:07 <+perlDreamer> k
01:08 <@bopbop> was there an rfe or bug that caused Steve to change it?
01:09 <+perlDreamer> No.  I think that he thought that "Add a variant" wasn't clear enough
01:09 <+perlDreamer> I'm starting to agree with him
01:09 <@bopbop> I agree, I think set SKU and Price is easier
01:09 <@bopbop> esp. for new commerce users
01:12 <+perlDreamer> Cool.  I'll make it that, then remove the English text in the template.
01:12 <@bopbop> ok
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01:30 < CIA-8> WebGUI: graham * r8278 /WebGUI/ (lib/WebGUI.pm docs/previousVersion.sql): update versions to 7.6.3
01:30 < CIA-8> WebGUI: doug * r8279 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/SyndicatedContent.pm: fixed: SyndicatedContent asset throws runtime error with RSS feeds it cant deal with
01:30 < CIA-8> WebGUI: doug * r8280 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: SyndicatedContent asset throws runtime error with RSS feeds it cant deal with
01:30 < CIA-8> WebGUI: translation * r8281 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (16 files): Update from translation server
01:30 < CIA-8> WebGUI: graham * r8282 /experimental/HelpDesk/ (17 files in 5 dirs): separate install from helpdesk
01:30 < CIA-8> WebGUI: graham * r8283 /experimental/HelpDesk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): use yui 2.5.2 datatable and datasource libs
01:30 < CIA-8> WebGUI: graham * r8284 /experimental/HelpDesk/lib/WebGUI/Form/CommentRating.pm: CommentRating is in core now
01:30 < CIA-8> WebGUI: jt * r8285 /WebGUI/etc/WebGUI.conf.original: adding missing entry for data table
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02:48 < CIA-8> WebGUI: tabitha * r8286 /WebGUI/www/extras/assets/ (DataTable.gif small/DataTable.gif): Added icons for Data Table asset
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04:46 < CIA-8> WebGUI: jt * r8287 /WebGUI/ (13 files in 11 dirs): - The Syndicated Content asset was rewritten, and now uses 35% less memory and is 400% faster.
04:46 < CIA-8> WebGUI: jt * r8288 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/DataTable.pm: added icon
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13:17 < CIA-8> WebGUI: patspam * r8289 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (7 files in 5 dirs): DateTimeCompareToNow flux plugin now is actually useful, and has lots of tests
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17:09 < miloidrr> Hi I have a question about cs template
17:09 < Lisette> how to do for get the assetId of a post that find in session?
17:09 < miloidrr> How can i add two variables in a template?
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17:15 < Lisette> how to do for get the assetId of a post that find in session?
17:16 < BartJo1> hi Martin!
17:17 < BartJo1> miloidrr: do you want two non existing tmp_vars?
17:17 < BartJo1> then you'll have to program them in the Post
17:18 < BartJo1> you mean vars in the post_loop?
17:18 < BartJo1> just read the code to se how the others are added
17:18 < BartJo1> and add yours the same
17:19 < BartJo1> Lisette: can you rephrase that, I don't exactly understand what you're trying to do
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17:26 < BartJo1> miloidrr: the existing vars are in the following files: ./Asset/Post/Thread.pm:         push (@{$var->{post_loop}}, \%replyVars);
17:26 < BartJo1> ./Asset/Wobject/Collaboration.pm:                push(@{$var->{post_loop}}, \%postVars );
17:29 < Lisette> i have to do a macro that return the url of a atach of a post, but the parameter for to the macro is only the number of post, then i want find tha assetId of the post that called id
17:29 < Lisette> sorry the macro
17:33 < BartJo1> Ok can you put the code in paste bin?
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17:38 < BartJo1> Lisette: or do you want the input to be the post's assetId
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17:42 < John> Hey
17:42 < BartJo1> thta is id in the <post_loop>
17:42 < BartJo1> hi John
17:42 -!- John is now known as Guest64427
17:42 < Guest64427> HI
17:43 < Guest64427> My nickname was changed
17:44 < BartJo1> well, we don't like you less because of that
17:49 < Guest64427> jajajaj thanks
17:52 <+MrHairgrease> bart!
17:52 <+MrHairgrease> do we go to locus tonight?
17:52 <+MrHairgrease> as a domibo?
17:52 < BartJo1> well, first I go to the movies with my mother
17:52 <+MrHairgrease> oh
17:53 < BartJo1> aster that I will be available for drinking
17:53 < BartJo1> after
17:53 <+MrHairgrease> well
17:53 <+MrHairgrease> if you like you mom better than your friends...
17:53 < BartJo1> but you have to work tomorrow
17:53 <+MrHairgrease> i know
17:53 <+MrHairgrease> so?
17:53 < BartJo1> I just have to divide my attention between all that people who love me
17:54 < BartJo1> ;)
17:54 <@perlmonkey2> anything in particular I should keep in mind when merging the new survey into [HEAD]?
17:54 <+MrHairgrease> i never said i loved you
17:54 <@rizen> Erin is not one of those people BartJo1 
17:54 <+MrHairgrease> but you're okay for the person you are =)
17:54 <@rizen> keep your damn hands off her
17:54 <@rizen> =)
17:54 < BartJo1> not yet rizen, not yet
17:54 <+MrHairgrease> who's erin?
17:54 < BartJo1> but she's save from my hands till may
17:55 <+MrHairgrease> oh
17:55 <+MrHairgrease> i see
17:55 < BartJo1> so you have time enough to win her, after that, it's your own fault rizen
17:55 <@rizen> true
17:56 <@rizen> guess i better book a flight out to the east coast
17:57 <+MrHairgrease> bart, will you be at de vrijmibo?
17:57 < BartJo1> I will
17:57 <+MrHairgrease> ok
17:57 <@perlmonkey2> rizen: what do you have to fear from BartJo1?  I mean tall, handsome, sexy accent?  No threat there.
17:57 <+MrHairgrease> then, for now, let's take it easy and skip the domibo
17:57 <+MrHairgrease> pm2: are you sure you're not talking about me?
17:58 < BartJo1> and I won't try to confince her to stop smoking
17:58 < BartJo1> MrHairgrease: you're not tall
17:59 <+MrHairgrease> I'm tall enough
18:00 < BartJo1> but perlmonkey2, you think I'm handsome and have a sexy accent...mmm
18:00 <@perlmonkey2> MrHairgrease: I could be, I get all you tall sexy Netherlanders confused :P
18:00 <@perlmonkey2> BartJo1: what are you trying to say?
18:00 <+MrHairgrease> perlmonkey2: that's perfectly understandable
18:01 < BartJo1> well, I was a bit doubting what you were saying
18:01 < BartJo1> but don't keep your hopes up, I'm not gay
18:01 <@rizen> BartJo1: true, you will win because you won't try to convince her to stop smoking
18:02 <@rizen> BartJo1: but then i'll be without a mistress
18:02 < BartJo1> Sarah said you could have Kerri
18:02 <@rizen> don't want kerri
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18:02 <@perlmonkey2> BartJo1: well, even if I was gay, my wife would do incredibly harmful things to me.
18:02 <@rizen> she annoys the hell out of me
18:02 <@rizen> way too dramatic
18:02 < BartJo1> she told me that too
18:03 <@rizen> alright, fine. you take erin, kerri, and sarah. i'll just call up some whores. =)
18:03 < BartJo1> she didn't seem to care
18:03 < BartJo1> that's what you wanted anyway
18:03 <@rizen> indeed
18:04 <+MrHairgrease> hehe
18:04 < BartJo1> if you will become a pimp, they're cheaper
18:04 <+MrHairgrease> seems the whole polygamistic hippie commune plan is up and ruinning again
18:04 < BartJo1> yoohoo!
18:08 < BartJo1> perlmonkey2: your wife doesn't secretly wishes a threesome, or with my commune a sixsome?
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18:09 <@perlmonkey2> BartJo1: you are starting a commune?  Does this signify the end of the world?
18:10 < BartJo1> nope, just an enhancement of my sleeping conditions
18:10 < BartJo1> and probably a lot of nagging
18:11 < CIA-8> WebGUI: jt * r8290 /WebGUI/ (7 files in 6 dirs): Added a better mechanism for calculating when content was last modified for cache headers.
18:13 < BartJo1> but I'll have to go to watch a French movie with my mother
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18:41 < JohnRestrepo> Hi again
18:54 < JohnRestrepo> Guys
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18:55 < JohnRestrepo> Anyone of you know how to use the Net::SAML extension?
18:55 < JohnRestrepo> In WebGUI
18:55 < JohnRestrepo> anyone has used it?
18:58 < apeiron> JohnRestrepo, Nope, but if you wanted to use it with wG you'd probably need to write an Auth handler.
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20:01 < CIA-8> WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r8291 /tools/disableActivity.pl: This script will remove all activities matching an activity id or a title from every workflow in the site. A single site or all sites can be specified.
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20:32 < mikekgr> hello there, is there any possibility to install webgui in a computer that have not direct connection to the internet (bihing proxy/firewall)???
20:32 <+perlDreamer> sure
20:32 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI does not require access to the internet to function correctly
20:33 <+perlDreamer> certain functions will not work, though
20:33 <+perlDreamer> like the Weather Asset, the Stock Tracker asset.
20:33 <+perlDreamer> trying to fetch calendar feeds or RSS feeds from other external sites
20:33 <+perlDreamer> and, the little feature that tells you if you're using the most up to date version of WebGUI
20:33 <+perlDreamer> all optional
20:34 < mikekgr> yes but during installation at the update from internet phase stop installation due to no internet
20:34 <@preaction> you don't want to install that way
20:34 < mikekgr> how to install then???
20:34 <+perlDreamer> maybe we need a "How to install WebGUI on an isolated server" wiki page
20:34 <@preaction> you'll need to download the WRE and the WebGUI versions you want, then do a Manual Install of webgui by extracting the WebGUI tarball to /data/WebGUI
20:35 <@preaction> perlDreamer, good idea. or "How to do a manual install" or something
20:35 <+perlDreamer> preaction, if you dictate, I'll wiki it
20:35 <+perlDreamer> Are there more details than you just went through?
20:35 <@preaction> not really
20:35 < mikekgr> ok give me 1-2 minutes to write after checking again
20:36 <@preaction> you go through the WRE's install procedure until it says "Installing WebGUI" and has the button for "Manual Install"
20:36 <@preaction> BEFORE hitting that button, extract WebGUI to /data/WebGUI
20:36 <@preaction> then hit that button
20:36 <@preaction> that should be it
20:36 <+perlDreamer> Okay, I'll start the page
20:39 < mikekgr> I Download and try to installed WRE (for Debian), I followed this instructions: http://www.plainblack.com/community-wiki/wre-installation  the step that was not possible to finish was: " ./wreconsole.pl " Any workaround?
20:40 <@preaction> why can't you run the wreconsole?
20:41 <+perlDreamer> mikekgr: What happens when you try to run the wreconsole?
20:41 < mikekgr> No I can run it but when I go to: http://myserver:60834/setup there need to do update check and have problem here...
20:41 <@preaction> mikekgr, what step is that?
20:42 <@preaction> it should just time out and proceed normally
20:43 < mikekgr> I am not at that computer right now but this page try to setup everything and when try to "check for update" stopped here and at "server" console take an error that the update can not be done and stay there...
20:44 < mikekgr> no it does not continue after that error
20:44 <@preaction> unless i know what step that is i can't help you. was it after you clicked "Automatic Install"?
20:45 < mikekgr> yes sure
20:45 <@preaction> that's what you don't want to do. The other button on that page is "Manual Install", and that's the button you want
20:46 <@preaction> as i mentioned above, BEFORE you hit Manual Install, you unzip the WebGUI tarball to /data/WebGUI
20:46 <@preaction> that's the tarball you got from http://update.webgui.org
20:46 < mikekgr> ok I see I will try it tomorrow. Many thanks
21:09 <+perlDreamer> preaction: wiki page is up
21:09 <+perlDreamer> It could use some linkage and some indexage, but people who search should find it
21:09 <@preaction> sweet, thanks
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21:20 <@preaction> uh... why does the t/Asset/Wobject/DataForm/DataForm.t test the Article asset?
21:21 <@Haarg> heh
21:21 <@Haarg> that may be my fault
21:22 <@Haarg> indeed it is
21:25 <@preaction> how is testing the DataForm going to work if it creates a new revision of itself with every action?
21:25 <@preaction> oh, nm
21:25 <@preaction> those are only the www_ actions
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21:46 < CIA-8> WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r8292 /branch/WebGUI_Survey2/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey/ (SurveyJSON.pm ResponseJSON.pm): prepping for merge
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21:48 < topsub> I wasn't logged into the webgui.org site and went to view a forum post and gave me permission deined. Is that correct?
21:48 <@perlmonkey2> hmm, I'm merging the Survey2 branch to HEAD, which is all new files exept for Survey.pm.  I don't want to merge it because nothing in the original should stay.  Should I svn del it then readd it with the new file?
21:49 <@preaction> topsub, which forum post?
21:50 <@preaction> perlmonkey2, that should work fine
21:50 < topsub> it was ,http://www.plainblack.com/etcetera/two-proxies-pointing-to-the-same-modperl#piIfU0tfORt2TENZlGcmog
21:51 < topsub> but now i log out and try it again and it works fine
21:51 < topsub> Not sure why the first time i went to the post it said permission deined
21:51 <@preaction> yeah. not sure either...
21:51 <@preaction> i logged out and works fine for me
21:51 <@preaction> if you can reproduce, let us know so we can look deeper
21:54 < topsub> hmm ya now i just sound werid because i can't reproduce it.. lol
21:54 < topsub> Seems to be fine. not sure where it thought i was trying to go to give me permission deined.
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22:32 < metanil> i think the line no 314 at file /extras/assetManager/assetManager.js should be fixed..
22:33 < metanil> its -->>  var url = "http://" + hostName + this.focusObject.metaData.url;
22:33 < metanil> hard coded "http://"
22:33 <@perlmonkey2> If I try to merge Survey2 branch objects that didn't exist in head, I get a they don't exist error. If I try to add them, I get a they are already under source control error.
22:33 <@preaction> perlmonkey2, did you copy the .svn directories from your branch? that could be the problem
22:33 <@perlmonkey2> hmm, I'll check
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23:05 <+perlDreamer> metanil, please file that as a bug
23:07 < metanil> yeah..
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23:46 <@Haarg> perlmonkey2, did you get the survey merged?  it looks like it's missing the main file
23:54 <@perlmonkey2> Haarg: how so?
23:54 <@perlmonkey2> Survey.pm should be there
23:55 <+perlDreamer> No Survey.pm
23:56 <@Haarg> you can't add and delete a file in one rev with svn
23:56 <@Haarg> you can change a file though
23:56 <@perlmonkey2> whups
23:58 -!- MOAR-f00li5h is now known as f00li5h
23:58 <@perlmonkey2> okay, added
--- Day changed Fri Nov 07 2008
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00:02 < Bernd_> rizen, I just met Klaus in Mannheim at our first webgui drinks.
00:02 < Bernd_> We have discussed about how to grow the German community.
00:03 < Bernd_> Would it be possible to have a German forum on webgui.org?
00:03 <@rizen> if that would help you, sure
00:03 <@rizen> i'm all about growing the community
00:03 < Bernd_> I am thinking about something like a self-assignable webgui group.
00:03 <@rizen> but...wouldn't it be better to have a full german site?
00:04 < Bernd_> We could internationalize webgui.org at one point.
00:04 < Bernd_> webgui-cms.de is already dead.
00:04 < Bernd_> And Andreas Graf (the owner) does not seem to be interested that much
00:04 < Bernd_> in revitalizing it.
00:04 < Bernd_> A forum would be a good starting point.
00:05 < Bernd_> What about a webgui group to which people can assign by themselves.
00:05 <@rizen> well if you want a forum i can give you that
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00:05 <@rizen> what is the group for?
00:05 < Bernd_> To make the forum visible.
00:05 <@rizen> why not just always leave it visible?
00:05 < Bernd_> That way we can have many national groups on webgui.org
00:06 < Bernd_> and still keep the board tidy and short.
00:06 <@rizen> i know what you're saying, but why not have all the national groups visible? i think it makes the webgui community look bigger and cooler
00:06 < Bernd_> I mean, the German forum is probably only the beginning.
00:06 < Bernd_> Alright. 
00:06 < Bernd_> Make it visible then.
00:07 <@rizen> could you type the name as it should appear in german?
00:07 <@rizen> so i can put it in?
00:07 < Bernd_> Now? Or as an RFE?
00:07 <@rizen> now
00:07 <@rizen> i'll do it now
00:07 < Bernd_> >Good. Let me think for a moment.
00:07 <@rizen> i'll also make your user account the "owner" of the CS so that you can edit it
00:08 < Bernd_> What about the translation of "German user group"?
00:08 < Bernd_> as title, I mean.
00:08 <@rizen> fine by me...whatever you think will attract german speaking users
00:09 < Bernd_> Let's go with that for the moment. The German translation is "Deutsche Benutzergruppe".
00:09 < Bernd_> We can still change it later on.
00:09 <@rizen> oh and also type up a one or two sentence description in german
00:09 <@rizen> like each other forum has
00:09 <@rizen> a description
00:09 < Bernd_> Can I do that later on?
00:09 <@rizen> i guess so since you'll have edit rights
00:09 < Bernd_> I am still in the train, it is late and I have had more than two beers.
00:09 <@rizen> hehe
00:09 < Bernd_> Good.
00:10 < Bernd_> We have also agreed on meeting regularly.
00:10 <@rizen> ok, when you sober up and wake up, post a welcome message to the board
00:10 <@rizen> sweet
00:10 < Bernd_> That is once a month. Alternating between Heidelberg and Mannheim.
00:10 < Bernd_> I am going to post to the calendar soon.
00:10 < Bernd_> Hope there are more to join.
00:11 < Bernd_> One more thing:
00:11 < Bernd_> What about the extended demo I have suggested to tavis already?
00:11 < Bernd_> Have you read that thread?
00:11 <@rizen> haven't read that thread
00:12 <@rizen> i'll go look for it
00:12 < Bernd_> I think we could attract a lot more people by offering an extended demo for about one month.
00:12 < Bernd_> That way people can play with webgui a bit more.
00:12 < Bernd_> Klaus would be willing to fund a server for German users.
00:12 <@rizen> do you want an email address associated with it?
00:13 <@rizen> or do you want to decide that later?
00:13 < Bernd_> e-mail?
00:13 < Bernd_> The forum?
00:13 <@rizen> yeah so people can email in to the forum
00:13 <@rizen> yeah
00:13 < Bernd_> Oh, yes!
00:13 < Bernd_> E-mail is always good.
00:13 < Bernd_> something like krauts@webgui.org
00:13 <@rizen> ok
00:13 <@rizen> i'll get it created
00:13 < Bernd_> Cool!
00:14 < Bernd_> Back to the extended demo...
00:14 < Bernd_> The idea is to have some low-budget hosting
00:14 < Bernd_> for small private sites.
00:14 < Bernd_> Very small sites, I mean.
00:14 < Bernd_> Just to attract users.,
00:14 < Bernd_> However, what is missing is a quota in the wre.
00:15 < Bernd_> What do you think,
00:15 < Bernd_> would that work for attracting more people?
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00:16 < Bernd_> Ah, KlausH!
00:16 < Bernd_> Already discussing :-)
00:16 < Bernd_> JT is about creating our forum!!!
00:16 < KlausH> Hi Bernd!
00:16 < KlausH> Great! 
00:16 <@rizen> Bernd webgui has asset quotes
00:16 < Bernd_> We still have come up with a description until tomorrow,
00:16 <@rizen> quotas
00:17 <@rizen> you can say...this site can only have 400 assets
00:17 < Bernd_> I did not know. Where can I specify? In the webgui conf file?
00:18 < Bernd_> But more importantly, do you think this could be a model for attracting more people to webgui?
00:18 <@rizen> webgui config file
00:18 <@rizen> i haven't read the forum post yet
00:18 < Bernd_> Going to have look.
00:19 <@rizen> your forum is online now...well pending spectre committing it
00:19 < Bernd_> Check the thread on the ct article.
00:19 < Bernd_> It was about how to generate extra values for their customers.
00:19 <@Haarg> perlmonkey2, intentional?  https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/revision?rev=8296#diff__WebGUI_lib_WebGUI_Workflow_Activity_ArchiveOldThreads.pm
00:19 < Bernd_> ct did not want to publish webgui as part of their software collection
00:19 < Bernd_> since it is free and does not come with any extra value.
00:20 < Bernd_> My suggestion was to give hosting coupons to their reades
00:20 < Bernd_> readers for an extended demo
00:20 < Bernd_> But I think this would be a great think in general.
00:21 < Bernd_> Currently, there is still too little activity on webgui.org.
00:21 < Bernd_> We need more users.
00:21 < Bernd_> I think students are a good target group.
00:21 < Bernd_> They have time contribute.
00:21 < Bernd_> But we need to get them play with webgui first.
00:22 < KlausH> Bernd, will you do the intial post on the German discussion board
00:22 < Bernd_> The current demo is good for a first impression.
00:22 < Bernd_> KlausH, yes!
00:22 < Bernd_> But tomorrow.
00:22 < Bernd_> Immediately after breakfast.
00:23 < Bernd_> rizen, so what do you think about an extended demo and a subsequent low-budget hosting plan for private users?
00:23 <@rizen> on phone...in the mean time, can you get me the url to the discussion you're talking about
00:26 <@rizen> ok, off the phone
00:26 < Bernd_> Ok. I found it! It was this one http://www.plainblack.com/etcetera/webgui-article-in-german-linux-magazine?pn=2
00:26 <@rizen> where is that thread
00:26 <@rizen> k
00:26 <@rizen> reading...
00:27 < Bernd_> KlausH, schon eine Idee f?r die Beschreibung der Gruppe?
00:28 <@rizen> my answer = exactly what tavisto said
00:29 < Bernd_> That means, you are going to work on it?
00:30 <@tavisto> what about tavisto?
00:30 <@tavisto> why are you bouncing my Colloquy icon?
00:30 <@tavisto> :_
00:30 <@tavisto> :)
00:32 < Bernd_> Would it be ok, if Klaus and me took the lead?
00:32 < Bernd_> Not that expensive to rent a root server these days.
00:32 < Bernd_> And I do not expect users to flood us with requests.
00:33 < Bernd_> tavisto, what is a Colloquy icon?
00:33 <@rizen> tavisto what you said regarding automated hosting and extended demos on the forum
00:33 <@tavisto> heh, on a Mac the default IRC client is colloquy
00:33 <@tavisto> gotcha Rizen, I caught up on the convo now
00:33 < Bernd_> So, are there any plans to do that?
00:33 <@rizen> Bernd_: no that doesn't mean we're going to work on it. it means that we can't even consider working on it until the hosting automation system is fully in place
00:33 < Bernd_> Or shall we do that as a community.
00:34 <@rizen> and it won't be in place until *at least* January 2009.
00:34 < Bernd_> But hosting automation is being worked on?
00:34 <@rizen> yes
00:34 <@rizen> as we speak
00:34 < Bernd_> 2009 is coming soon.#
00:34 <@rizen> i'm spending about 20 hours per week (and sometimes more) 
00:34 < Bernd_> No need to be impatient.
00:34 < Bernd_> Good. In that case, I think we are going to wait.
00:35 < Bernd_> Keep on working :-) !
00:35 < Bernd_> I am approaching my home.
00:35 < Bernd_> Going to stop here.
00:35 < Bernd_> Good night!
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00:37 <@rizen> patspam: it appears that the first German webgui drink was a huge success
00:37 <@rizen> how's the australian one?
00:38 <@tavisto> Rizen, you do realize we will exceed 1000 CMS products by the end of 2008 right? If not by the end of this month.
00:38 <@tavisto> I think this week we've already got around 3-4 new CMS products, and I have one pending where I'm waiting to hear from a vendor
00:39 <@tavisto> according to the numbers I've seen in past articles, that means we could potentially only be reporting about half the CMS products currently available.
00:39 <@rizen> i know
00:40 <@rizen> cmsmatrix.org is exploding all over the place
00:40 <@tavisto> yeah, our visitors aren't growing inline but the amount of vendors finding us definitely is
00:40 <@tavisto> we're actually just consistent now after our last growth spurt of 10-15k to around 60k
00:41 <@rizen> it will come
00:41 <@rizen> the more data we have the more users we will have
00:41 <@tavisto> yup, I have no doubt.
00:42 <@tavisto> I think our phase 2 advertising plan must go into affect.. hot babes in bikini photo galleries
00:42 <@tavisto> I'm pretty sure no ones ever tried that technique before
00:43 <@rizen> i'm pretty sure every dating site on the internet uses ads like that
00:43 <@rizen> the hottest chicks i see on the internet are always the ads pointing to dating sites. =)
00:44 <@tavisto> yeah, just maybe.. and I even had a typo with affect... should be effect. I suck
00:44 <@tavisto> that's 100% true.
00:44 <@tavisto> BUT, I wonder if that's true on the muslim dating site you found.
00:49 < nuba> haha dating sites use imagemagik & geoip to convince people that the pics they're seeing is from local girls
00:50 < nuba> they have this 'hot babes pic database' and "burn" your city name in a random pic
00:51 < nuba> but its funny when they do that and your population's average girls are soo different than US'
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01:00 <@perlmonkey2> Haarg: oh crap...looks like I somehow edited that file instead of where I pasted teh code to.
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01:01 <@perlmonkey2> Haarg: I'm rolling it back now
01:01 <@Haarg> ok
01:01 <@Haarg> thanks
01:01 < wgGuest95> hello there, could someone tell me how to have/use a few fonts in my webgui pages?
01:04 <@preaction> wgGuest95, most likely you'll have to edit the HTML source or create a stylesheet that has some classes for your fonts
01:04 <+perlDreamer> Doritos rock
01:05 <@perlmonkey2> Haarg: ah, I guess checking out the last good version and then trying to check it in, isn't have you roll back.
01:05 < wgGuest95> from admin console and using graphics I upload a few... How can edit the html source or create a stylesheet?
01:06 <@perlmonkey2> ah, merge
01:06 <@Haarg> yeah, svn is kind of a pile
01:06 <@preaction> wgGuest95, those fonts aren't for in the page, they're for the graphs that WebGUI creates
01:06 <+perlDreamer> wgGuest95, the graphics console is only for creating graphics through WebGUI like pie charts and graphs
01:07 <@preaction> there's no good way to push those fonts to the people viewing your web site, which is why most websites just use a few default fonts like Arial, Courier, and Tahoma
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01:08 < wgGuest95> ok thanks, now only left the question how can have my defaul favorit fonts (Arial, Tahoma etc) inside webgui?
01:08 <@perlmonkey2> svn merge -c -6258 urlToModule, right?
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01:09 <@preaction> wgGuest95, you will need to edit your stylesheet (the CSS file)
01:09 <@preaction> wgGuest95, http://www.plainblack.com/community-wiki/how-to-give-webgui-your-own-style <- here's a good wiki article on how to edit style templates and stylesheets
01:10 < wgGuest95> ok thanks I will check it!!!
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01:16 <@perlmonkey2> ah, -c doens't work, have to use -r
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02:21 < CIA-6> WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r8293 /branch/WebGUI_Survey2/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey/ResponseJSON.pm: preparing for merge
02:21 < CIA-6> WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r8294 /branch/WebGUI_Survey2/www/extras/wobject/Survey/ (templates loadTemplate.pl survey.css.backup): preparing for merge
02:21 < CIA-6> WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r8295 /branch/WebGUI_Survey2/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/ (5 files in 2 dirs): preparing for merge
02:21 < CIA-6> WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r8296 /WebGUI/ (28 files in 11 dirs): The new survey is here. Make sure to wg-reset your test instances to get the new DB schema.
02:21 < CIA-6> WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r8297 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Survey.pm: i18n is probably important to actually seeing any text.
02:21 < CIA-6> WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r8298 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey.pm: The Survey pm file
02:21 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8299 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): fixed #9028: Thingy fails when setting values containing single quotes
02:21 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8300 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm: clean up some thingy slightly
02:21 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8301 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/packages-7.6.3/root_import_survey.wgpkg: make survey templates not be packages
02:21 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8302 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed #9047: Unable to reorder DataForm tabs
02:21 < CIA-6> WebGUI: translation * r8303 /translations/German/German/ (21 files): Update from translation server
02:21 < CIA-6> WebGUI: patspam * r8304 /branch/WebGUI_Survey2/t/Asset/Wobject/Survey.t: Added Survey.t skeleton
02:21 < CIA-6> WebGUI: translation * r8305 /translations/German/German/ (5 files): Update from translation server
02:22 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8306 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed #9047: Unable to reorder DataForm tabs
02:22 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8307 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): fixed #9028: Thingy fails when setting values containing single quotes
02:22 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8308 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.5.32 release
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03:34 < CIA-6> WebGUI: jt * r8309 /releases/WebGUI_7.5.32-stable: Release 7.5.32-stable
03:34 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8310 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (4 files in 4 dirs): preparing for 7.5.33 dev
03:34 < CIA-6> WebGUI: translation * r8311 /translations/German/German/ (5 files): Update from translation server
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04:34 < elnino> I was wondering if there is a way to add some layouts to the "design wizard" in webgui... Is it using templates in webgui? or is some pl files somewhere?  
04:34 <@preaction> it's some pl files somewhere i think
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05:20 < elnino> ok. Thanks preaction
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05:50 < CIA-8> WebGUI: doug * r8315 /WebGUI/ (6 files in 6 dirs): 
05:50 < CIA-8> WebGUI: added: Delete columns in DataTable
05:50 < CIA-8> WebGUI: fixed: Now more than one DataTable can be on a page
05:50 < CIA-8> WebGUI: doug * r8316 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Shop/Pay.pm: added todo
05:50 < CIA-8> WebGUI: doug * r8317 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Form/CheckList.pm: fixed docs
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06:21 < elnino> will the new survey in 7.6 support conditional questions?  so if you answer one way, it'll ask you one thing, if it asks you another, it asks you a different one?
06:22 <@preaction> yes
06:23 <@preaction> it calls it "branching"
06:31 < CIA-8> WebGUI: doug * r8318 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Wobject/DataForm/moveField.t: added tests for movefield
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07:08 < elnino> ok. Thanks preaction.
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15:02 < BartJol> hee, the topic is old
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18:29 < SDuensin> Everyone must be hard at work today.  No chatter!
18:31 < AMH_henry> for me weekend just started! :D
18:31 < SDuensin> Congrats.  Bum.  :-)
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18:57 < SDuensin> If I go and build a bunch of Things and later edit them, does the data already existing inside them survive?
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18:57 <@rizen> survive editing?
18:57 <@rizen> oh you mean edit the schema of them?
18:57 < SDuensin> Yea.
18:57 <@rizen> yup
18:58 <@rizen> data will survive
18:58 <@rizen> but the new fields added will be empty
18:58  * SDuensin is still gun shy but fascinated at the same time.
18:58 <@rizen> and fields that get deleted will lose their data
18:58 < SDuensin> That's cool.
18:58 <@rizen> Isn't thingy cool?
18:58 < SDuensin> I want to try and use it to build an application for my users to manage their domains.
18:59 < SDuensin> So far it seems very cool.  Except for when it went haywire on me the other night.
18:59 <@rizen> Our biggest use of it currently is that we have a rolodex of all of our customers, vendors, contractors, employees, etc
18:59 <@rizen> and notes about them
19:00 < SDuensin> Sounds similar to what I want.  Just the UI.  All the actual work will be done by a cron job or workflow or something.
19:00 < SDuensin> Kinda like how I use WebGUI to manage my CloudCircle subscriptions.  Logons are synced by a cron job on another box.
19:02 < SDuensin> I got into trouble when I started changing fields that had relationships on them.
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19:02 < SDuensin> wb
19:02 < SDuensin> I got into trouble when I started changing fields that had relationships on them.
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19:34 < CIA-6> WebGUI: amhhenry * r8320 /branch/alphamega/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Updated comments (removed reference to AMH). Put SQL statements for upgrade
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20:10 <+perlDreamer> next version is 7.6.4?
20:11 <@preaction> 763 i think
20:13 <@preaction> yeah 7.6.3, 7.6.2 is released
20:22 <+perlDreamer> cool.  I'm fixing a template so I want to put the package in the right place.
20:32 < SDuensin> Can a Thing be an auto-increment value?
21:15 <+perlDreamer> no idea, sduensin
21:16 < SDuensin> I worked around it.  It'd still be helpful.
21:16  * SDuensin is working on replacing Plesk with Things.
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21:23 < Bernd_> Hey, is the HelpDesk still broken?
21:23 < Bernd_> At least it does not work for me.
21:23 < Bernd_> I would like to upload a patch for the UserList asset.
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21:24 < Bernd_> But I cannot see any of the bugs at the moment.
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21:26 < Bernd_> perlDreamer, I have the patch for the UserList asset ready.
21:27 < Bernd_> But I cannot upload.
21:31 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: now what was the issue with the tests?
21:32 <+perlDreamer> i18n/help.t is using Help/Asset_Survey as a source of data
21:32 <+perlDreamer> the i18n that it was pointing to went away
21:32 <+perlDreamer> so Help/Asset_Survey needs to be updated, and have legal i18n links
21:33 <@perlmonkey2> okay, I'll see if I can do it after $work :P
21:33 <+perlDreamer> normally, Help, i18n and templating is part of $dayJob for contracts, but I don't know your current tasking
21:37 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: how does the help.t work.  I'm not seeing anything including/using anything with survey\c in it.
21:38 <+perlDreamer> it gets a list of help files, then takes the data structures from each one and makes sure that all labels have valid i18n entries
21:38 <+perlDreamer> help.t is not the problem
21:39 <@perlmonkey2> I didn't remove any help files.  I removed Asset_Survey and replaced it.
21:39 <+perlDreamer> I'll try to find a good example
21:41 <+perlDreamer> in Asset_Survey
21:41 <+perlDreamer> the survey response template looks for a title entry named 1089
21:41 <+perlDreamer> that entry, 1089, does not exist in the i18n file
21:41 <@perlmonkey2> ic
21:42 <@perlmonkey2> help.t runs through all the templates and makes sure the i18n calls are there.
21:42 <+perlDreamer> no
21:42 <+perlDreamer> help.t runs through all Help files and makes sure the i18n calls are there
21:44 <+perlDreamer> I'm assuming, (probably badly) that when you replaced the i18n file, that the Help file wasn't updated at the same time.
21:47 <@perlmonkey2> oh man....I've got a lot of work to do there.
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22:00 < CIA-6> WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r8321 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey.pm: Some idiot (me) cut off a really important line of code when cleaning up this file.
22:01 < SDuensin> hehe
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22:10 < SDuensin> Anybody got a recommendation for integrating an actual database with WebGUI.  Like pretty web-based forms and such.  Thingy is close, but not quite, what I need.
22:11 <@preaction> SQLForm maybe? SQLReport perhaps? A custom application?
22:11 < SDuensin> I'm hoping for pointy-clicky.  :-)
22:11 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin, patches and RFEs for Things gratefully accepted ;)
22:12 < SDuensin> :-D
22:12 <+perlDreamer> We know that you know how to sling a text editor around
22:12 < SDuensin> Who?  Me?  :-P
22:12 <+perlDreamer> You can't hide behind that fresh-faced newbie exterior forever, dudely
22:12 < SDuensin> :-D
22:12 < SDuensin> I plan on helping you all to rule the world.  But I need online *now* so I can afford to live.
22:14 <+perlDreamer> I see
22:14 <+perlDreamer> You need the autoincrement thing you mentioned earlier
22:14 <+perlDreamer> Or is it something else?
22:14 < SDuensin> Ideally?  Build FileMaker into WebGUI.  I'll wait.  :-)
22:15 <+perlDreamer> FileMaker?
22:15 <@preaction> http://www.filemaker.com/
22:15 < SDuensin> Yea.  Easy pointy-clicky DB builder with web UI options.
22:16 <@preaction> what is Thingy missing that you need?
22:16 < SDuensin> Forms to customize the UI.
22:17 <@preaction> forms? like a drag-drop wizard to make the forms?
22:17 <@preaction> you can edit the templates already
22:17 < SDuensin> I know that.  But it's not fast.
22:18 <@preaction> the app you want isn't easy either :p
22:18 < SDuensin> I know that.  :-)
22:18 <@preaction> but it's probably easier than a generic template wizarding thing
22:19 <@perlmonkey2> preaction: you know that SQL Report bug.  Try a limit that causes multiple pages from the paginator.  Then if you can figure it out, I'll owe you enough beers to see you passed out under the table.
22:20 < SDuensin> I know.  I'm just "into" pointy-clicky lately.  I want tools so a couple people can do the work of dozens.
22:20 <@preaction> right, but a dozen people will need to make those tools ;-) large up-front cost == smaller maintenance costs
22:20 <@preaction> perlmonkey2, i would look at how Paginator adds its own limit clause. that's most likely where the bug is
22:21 < SDuensin> Yea, but templates are my problem.  Tools are YOUR problem.  :-P
22:21 <@perlmonkey2> hmm, I used to be able to replicate, but now I can't.  
22:21 <@preaction> it might be prudent to build some testing for it, instead of trying to test from the frontend
22:22 <@preaction> SDuensin, i could think of some compromises that could be made to make thingy easier to template. perhaps tabbed forms like DataForm?
22:22 <@perlmonkey2> preaction: I'd call this corrected. I have 2000 returns in my query, paginating on 5 per page, and it happens subsecond.
22:22 <@perlmonkey2> I'll look at SVN at the paginator to see what changed.
22:22 <@preaction> perlmonkey2, i think there was something about there being a subquery as well, no?
22:23 < SDuensin> preaction - Not sure.  Mainly I need more navigation tools.  I'll look at the templates to see what I can do.  I mainly need to drill down into data and be able to come back up.  I've got a lot of many-to-one relations.
22:23 <@perlmonkey2> preaction: oh, yeah, now I remember.  It was when it was downloaded
22:25 <@perlmonkey2> preaction: looks like the bug I'm looking at isn't the same one I looked at before (been several months).  But I think there was a subquery in the previous one.  I'll test it with the subquery.  But if that works, I'd call this fixed.
22:26 <@perlmonkey2> wow, that query should have set my server on fire and instead it was also subsecond.
22:27 <@perlmonkey2> queried for everything on an unindexed column, and the subquery did the same.
22:31 <@perlmonkey2> preaction: nevermind it isn't corrected  "select * from assetData where title in (select title from assetData) limit 100" is an easy test which kills it.  And from the last time I looked at this, it woudl require a serious replumbing of the paginator.
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22:44 <@preaction> what would you have to do exactly? what in the paginator is the problem?
22:52 < SDuensin> perlmonkey2 - Ooo:  http://www.wavemaker.com
22:52 < SDuensin> Er, preaction that is.
22:56 <@perlmonkey2> SDuensin: community edition is AGPL
22:56 <@preaction> how dare you want rich applications without doing any work!
22:56 < SDuensin> :-P
22:57 < SDuensin> AGPL works for what I want.  Not for integrating with WebGUI for release.
22:57 <@preaction> i'm saying i can make a WebGUI::Asset::Template::Wizard::Thingy, but I'm also saying to not hold your breath waiting for it
22:58 < SDuensin> I know.  :-)
22:58 <@perlmonkey2> preaction: I don't recall about the paginator.  But I remember it was something where the solution was inherent in the paginator.
22:59 <@preaction> perlmonkey2, imho if you do a query like that and expect to download it, you should be prepared for it to take too long
22:59 <@perlmonkey2> preaction: it won't take a long time, it will take forever.  
23:00 <@preaction> that query would take forever at the mysql client, that's not something we can control
23:00 <@perlmonkey2> There is a rather large param DEFINED in the paginator has to run once for each iteration.  
23:00 <@perlmonkey2> to find the problem just look for the param that is like 9999999999999999 or some such.
23:00 <@perlmonkey2> it isn't at the mysql client.  It is what the paginator is doing.
23:01 <@perlmonkey2> I remember find that param and realizing it had to be there and there was no simple solution.
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23:02 <@preaction> ok, put as much info as possible into the bug report, we'll still need to fix it, but it's a little bug not a big one
23:02 <@perlmonkey2> preaction: okay, I'll dive back into Paginator and document what I find this time :P
23:02 <@perlmonkey2> SDuensin: that app shows the incredible power of the CRUD concept.
23:02 < SDuensin> Yep.
23:03 <@preaction> perlmonkey2, you don't have to do that, just next time there's a problem like that
23:03 <@perlmonkey2> preaction: yeah, it was a long time ago, I think before I was an employee.
23:03 <@preaction> if you can't fix it, at least write down as much as possible that you found out
23:03 <@perlmonkey2> and I was trying to knock out bugs as fast as I could, and just moved along if I could fix it in a timely manner.
23:03 <@perlmonkey2> /could/couldn't/
23:07 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8322 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fix add variant i18n bug
23:07 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8323 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (4 files in 4 dirs): backporting Sku i18n fix
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23:27 <+perlDreamer> preaction, where can I find an example of the AJAX i18n calls?
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23:41 <@perlmonkey2> jsIdiot: what asset would answer the calls?
23:41 <@perlmonkey2> www_i18n?
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23:51 < snapcount> Is it possible to use a template variable from a template in the head block of the template?
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00:51 <@preaction> snapcount, no. in 7.6 it's possible to pass a data structure to the template's prepare() method, which allows template vars in there, but currently assets only use it for Metadata
01:16 < snapcount> ahh
01:16 < snapcount> ok ty
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01:54 <@tavisto> nuba, ping
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02:38 < nuba> tavisto: pong
02:38 < nuba> sup?
02:38 <@tavisto> hey nuba, I was curious if this site (in .br) is a legit CMS vendor
02:44 <@tavisto> 	http://www.visionnaire.com.br
03:00 < nuba> [22:08] <@tavisto> Ihttp://www.visionnaire.com.br
03:00 < nuba> oops
03:00 < nuba> [22:08] <@tavisto> Ihttp://www.visionnaire.com.br
03:00 <@tavisto> is that a legit vendor?
03:01 < nuba> sucks to use other people`s terminal with configs all messed up
03:01 < nuba> messed up = different than mine`s :D
03:01 < nuba> let me check
03:01 < nuba> never heard of them before
03:01 <@tavisto> I used google translate but the site doesn't really go into much detail about CMS
03:04 < nuba> http://www.visionnaire.com.br/produtos_webp.html
03:04 < nuba> thats their CMS product
03:05 < nuba> its called Visionnaire webpublication
03:06 < nuba> it seems pretty much legit
03:07 < nuba> i mean just legit as websites go
03:07 <@tavisto> ok so the product is legigt
03:07 < nuba> they sport a list of know companies as clients
03:07 <@tavisto> legit. That's what I wanted to make sure since I can't read the context of the site where it shows the CMS info
03:07 < nuba> known*
03:08 < nuba> they also claim to be partially financed by a couple of big banks
03:08 < nuba> it all looks convincing
03:08 < nuba> not overproduced, they could have done better
03:08 < nuba> its average looking
03:09 < nuba> and theres a couple of `success stories` on http://www.visionnaire.com.br/downloads/cases/case_fiep_webp.pdf and http://www.visionnaire.com.br/downloads/cases/case_usf_webp.pdf
03:09 < nuba> thats it
03:10 <@tavisto> alright, great thanks Nuba. I can now add them as a CMS on the cmsmatrix
03:10 <@tavisto> that will put us at 980 CMS products listed
03:10 < nuba> youre welcome
03:11 < nuba> cool, every notch counts
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20:07 <+crythias1> Can I just say, "Thank You" for WebGUI?
20:08 <+crythias1> I'm pretty much amazed at it (finally?) doing the stuff that *makes sense* ...
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21:38 <+perlDreamer> preaction: need a 2nd opinion.  Art thou available?
21:43 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8324 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm: update method alters the reference it is sent. Fix this by using Clone, which is a grandfathered prerequisite
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22:15 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8325 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_DataTable.pm: fill in missing i18n labels for the DataTable
22:47 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8326 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Macro_SpectreCheck.pm: fix i18n typo in SpectreCheck macro
22:47 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8327 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/NotifyAboutThing.pm: fix i18n typos in NotifyAboutThing.pm
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03:44 < CIA-6> WebGUI: yung * r8328 /branch/WebGUI_Matrix2/lib/WebGUI/ (5 files in 5 dirs): Adding features to Matrix v2
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22:26 < Bernd_> preaction, I think I am done with implementing a fallback mechanism for translations allowing local flavors.
22:27 < Bernd_> I have modified the get function in WebGUI::International
22:27 < Bernd_> so far.
22:27 < Bernd_> Seems to work.
22:27 < Bernd_> Is there anything else I need to consider?
22:27 < Bernd_> Maybe I should explain a bit more.
22:28 < Bernd_> You can set a fallback language in the language properties now that is preferred over English.
22:28 < Bernd_> If an id is missing, the fallback language is checked first.
22:28 < Bernd_> Only if the id is missing there as well, English is used as the last option.
22:29 < Bernd_> Are there any other parts in WebGUI that may be affected?
22:31 < Bernd_> I see. It's weekend :-)
22:31 < Bernd_> Going to bug you again on Monday.
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02:29 < patspam> looks like the upgrade to YUI 2.6 broke Thingy
02:30 < patspam> in the latest beta
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03:59 <+Radix-wrk> That sounds so wrong if you say it out loud.. "YUI broke my thingy!"
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15:59 < SDuensin> Greetings.
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18:52 < rjacobsen> is this working?
18:52 < SDuensin> nope
18:52 < rjacobsen> kk
18:52 < rjacobsen> i have a (hopefully) real simple question
18:53 < rjacobsen> i am working inside the template of webgui - and want to check to see if the user logged in is Admin.... so i typed <tmpl_if user.isAdmin> but it is not working
18:53 < rjacobsen> what is the correct variable for the user to show it is admin?
18:54 < rjacobsen> the only ones i know are user.isModerator and user.isVisitor
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18:55  * SDuensin and templates are not a great mix.
18:56 <+perlDreamer> I thought SDuensin went great with everything
18:56 <+perlDreamer> kind of like beer
18:56 < SDuensin> He is, but not when he's sick.
18:57 < SDuensin> I'm lucky to be able to type.
18:57 < rjacobsen> is there a guide somewhere to all the user variables available?
18:58 < rjacobsen> they used to be in the help of webgui, but i dont see them there anymore
18:58 < SDuensin> Yea, they're all on the wiki.
18:59 < SDuensin> But they change depending on what the template is.
18:59 < SDuensin> perlDreamer - I plan on ruling the world with WebGUI and my brain.  As soon as my brain works again.
18:59 < rjacobsen> i just want something like <tmpl_if user.isAdmin> to check to see if the user logged in is Admin or not
19:00 <@rizen> they're all in the help
19:01 <@rizen> all template variables for all templates are in the help
19:01 < rjacobsen> i looked
19:01 <@rizen> if it's not in the help, then the variable doesn't exist
19:01 < SDuensin> Wow.  I said the same thing as rizen for once.  :-P
19:02 < rjacobsen> can you pls just tell me what user. i would use to see if the person logged in is admin? because I trully cannot find it (or i wouldnt be here)
19:02 < rjacobsen> :)
19:02 < rjacobsen> and i have been the past 2 hours looking through the help menu
19:03 < SDuensin> What kind of template is it?
19:03 < rjacobsen> admin toggle
19:04 <@rizen> there is no variable to tell if the current user is an admin
19:04 < rjacobsen> i dont wanna show it if the person is not admin
19:04 <@rizen> you need to use GroupText macro
19:04 < rjacobsen> ok lemme look that up
19:05 < rjacobsen> i see group add and group delete but no grouptext
19:05 < rjacobsen> ahh i see it
19:05 <@rizen> http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/group-text-macro
19:05 < rjacobsen> but how can i use a macro in a templ_if??
19:05 <@rizen> you can't
19:06 <@rizen> you don't need to
19:06 <@rizen> ^GroupText(3,display this thing here);
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19:06 < rjacobsen> ahhh
19:06 < rjacobsen> so group 3 would see the text
19:06 <@rizen> yes
19:06 <@rizen> except don't use 3 use the name of the group
19:06 <@rizen> like Admins
19:06 < rjacobsen> but can i put a ^asset url inside the "display this thing here"?
19:07 <@rizen> yup
19:07 < rjacobsen> very nice
19:07 < rjacobsen> very very nice
19:07 < rjacobsen> thank you so much
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19:09 < SDuensin> This is somewhat off-topic, but...  What's the best MySQL tool you've found?  I want something I can diagram with and manage FKs and such.
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19:18 <@rizen> the only one I've ever used for mysql is Datanamic DeZine for Databases
19:19 <+perlDreamer> Agreed, SDuensin.  Functional brain is required for world domination.
19:20 < SDuensin> rizen - Is it any good?
19:21 <@rizen> i don't like graphical tools like that, so i'm a bad one to ask
19:21 <@rizen> but for what it does, i thought it was ok
19:22 < SDuensin> I have the ever-creatively-named "SQLEditor" installed now.  Undecided.
19:31 < SDuensin> Hmm.  Navicat looks nice.
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19:50 < rjacobsen> rizen thanks man - that was exactly what i needed
19:50 <@rizen> you're welcome - pay me back by helping someone in IRC or on the forums when they have a question
19:50 < rjacobsen> i do have one more question .... is there any way to keep "Show admin console" from showing up when editing a page?
19:51 < SDuensin> Take it out of the template.
19:52 < rjacobsen> there is a page for "edit page layout"??
19:52 < rjacobsen> i didnt know that
19:52 < CIA-6> WebGUI: translation * r8329 /translations/Danish/Danish/ (13 files): Update from translation server
19:52 <@rizen> it's the admin console template
19:52 <@rizen> and you better not do what SD just said
19:52 <@rizen> or you'll likely break your site
19:52 <@rizen> so the answer is "no"
19:52 < SDuensin> SD had more things to go with his statement.
19:52 < rjacobsen> lol
19:53 < SDuensin> Like create an "admin" URL that has the macro in it.  :-P
19:53 < rjacobsen> so i can create my own edit page template?
19:55 < rjacobsen> lemme explain what im tryin to do and maybe that would be easier - when someone clicks edit (and they are not admin) - i do not want them to be able to do anything else but edit the text on that page and click save or cancel - is that possible?
19:56 < nuba> i suppose UI levels are what youore after
19:57 < rjacobsen> ya maybe - but it still doesnt turn everything off
19:57 < nuba> users with different UI levels see different forms while editing
19:57 < nuba> you could look into fine-tuning it accordingly to your needs
20:00 < rjacobsen> ya im a noob when it comes to groups - not sure what to put in the fields to make stuff not show and stuff
20:02 < rjacobsen> like i went in to create a new group and im not sure what to change to make the new group unique and to decide what will and will not show for that group
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20:08 < knowmad> Haarg: can you talk for a minute about my support ticket? i think we can resolve it more quickly via irc
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20:11 < mediak> if anyone knows, it would be cool.... how can i edit what a group can and cannot do.... i do not see that anywhere :(
20:12 < knowmad> that would be a nice feature but i don't think there's a way to do it right now
20:12 < knowmad> you could probably write an sql report to generate the info
20:13 < mediak> ok what uimode would not be able to see "Show admin console"?
20:13 < knowmad> there is a Permissions tab in admin console under Settings
20:14 < mediak> AHHHHHHHHH
20:14 < knowmad> that's not fully documented
20:14 < mediak> thanx!
20:14 < mediak> thats what i was lookin for
20:15 < knowmad> without editing the admin templates, i think that any user with turn admin on will get the ability to see admin console
20:15 < knowmad> oh, good; i thought you were talking about being able to view asset permissions assigned to a group
20:15 < mediak> crap
20:16 < mediak> they can still see "show admin console"
20:16 < mediak> have to find a uimode that cant see it
20:18 < knowmad> what are you trying to accomplish?
20:19 < mediak> trying to make it to where the user can edit the text on a page in webgui, save or cancel the changes, but nothing else
20:23 < mediak> i can get rid of everything EXCEPT "Show admin console".........
20:24 < mediak> cant figure out how to get rid of it - or make my own page edit template
20:27 < mediak> ok ....ill just use ad managers
20:28 < mediak> seems they have the least abilities
20:35 < knowmad> mediak: sorry, got distracted
20:35 < knowmad> where do you see "Show admin console"? in the admin toolbar?
20:36 < mediak> when they click "Edit" - it opens the edit page layout window and on the right side it says "Show admin console", and I cannot find a way to get rid of it
20:36 <+perlDreamer> mediak, there's no way to do what you're asking.  It's not a templatable function.
20:37 <+perlDreamer> If they can Turn On Admin (to get to editing controls) they will be able to see the Show Admin Console link
20:37 <+perlDreamer> and I take that back
20:37 <+perlDreamer> it is templatable
20:37 < mediak> i understand that - but is there a ui level that doesnt show it?
20:37 <+perlDreamer> no
20:37 <+perlDreamer> see WebGUI/AdminConsole.pm for the code that generates the editing interface that you're concerned about
20:38 < mediak> kk
20:39 < knowmad> thanks for the help pd
20:39 <+perlDreamer> mediak, a good option would be to put your restricted users in a special group
20:39 <+perlDreamer> Call it No Console
20:40 < mediak> i have made a group but dont know how to set it not to show the console
20:40 <+perlDreamer> Then, edit the default Admin Console template and use the GroupText macro to isolate that link, if that's possible
20:44 < mediak> ok i see how that can work.... but how would i make the edit page open with the admin console template that i create rather than the default?
20:45 < mediak> NEVERMIND LOL
20:45 < mediak> just figured it out
20:45 < mediak> i will use the grouptext macro to only show toggleAdminConsole() is group is Admins
20:46 < mediak> problem solved
20:48 < mediak> woot!
20:48 < mediak> that worked
20:48 < mediak> thanx perlDreamer for the idea
20:52 <@Haarg> knowmad: i'm here now
20:53 < knowmad> hey haarg
20:53 < knowmad> thanks for the reply; i've found the problem which was due to a bad sitename configuration
20:54 < knowmad> am posting a reply to the ticket
20:54 <@Haarg> ok, so it was a spectre issue?
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20:54 < knowmad> well, insomuch as i had misconfigured my conf file due to some complexities involved in how we have apache configured
20:55 < knowmad> there's no bug
20:55 < knowmad> if that's what you were asking
20:55 < knowmad> however, there is a patch i'm going to submit to provide better error reporting from spectre
20:55 <@Haarg> that would be nice.  i've been meaning to look at getting better error reports out of spectre
20:56 <@Haarg> the current mess of html that gets spit out is rather useless
20:58 < knowmad> well, it looks like you've already fixed this one in wG 7.5; i was running under 7.4.40 which didn't output the error results from an eval block
20:59 < knowmad> btw, i also looked up sitename in the Admin Guide and have the answer to my question in the follow-up to my ticket; unless you have more to add, you can close out that ticket
20:59 < knowmad> i concur with you about the "mess of html" being unhelpful in debugging spectre issues
20:59 < knowmad> that's a bigger problem than i have the tuits for today
21:00 <@Haarg> the thing that's most annoying
21:01 <@Haarg> is that what gets output in the log is a 500 error, even though that isn't what happened
21:01 <@Haarg> that 500 error and the html blob are generated by the http client when it can't reach the server
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21:05 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8330 /tools/ (wgd wg-build wg-reset): 
21:05 < CIA-6> WebGUI: new reset etc script, replacing wg-reset and wg-build
21:05 < CIA-6> WebGUI: additional commands, more consistant arguments, and pluggable.
21:05 < CIA-6> WebGUI: new wgd script is autogenerated based on a set of .pm files.
21:05 < bunniefoofoo> I would like to flush out all the 1000s of workflows that are piled up and won't finish, is it dangerous to delete the records in WorkflowInstance and WorkflowInstanceScratch?
21:06 <@Haarg> what kind of workflows are they
21:06 <@Haarg> ?
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21:08 < bunniefoofoo> 90% are labeld "get syndicated content"
21:08 < bunniefoofoo> 5% are labeld (none)
21:08 < bunniefoofoo> 2% are "Sync User Profiels with LDAP"
21:08 < bunniefoofoo> priority is all 20/20
21:09 < bunniefoofoo> I have 50 sites hosted, each has ~100-500 waiting workflows
21:10 < bunniefoofoo> pasting log extract now
21:10 <@Haarg> the get syndicated content should be ok to delete, but you still should track down what is causing the problem
21:11 < bunniefoofoo> all of them say "malformed text data" etc in webgui.log
21:11 < bunniefoofoo> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m72426015
21:12 <@Haarg> what version are you running?
21:12 < bunniefoofoo> 7.4.40
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21:22 < bunniefoofoo> pasted line of code with the problem: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m72f53e85
21:24 < bunniefoofoo> looking at the WorkflowInstance table, the "parameters" fields all look like this "{ "parameters" : {} }"
21:25 < bunniefoofoo> which is to say there are no parameters; so JSON::decode_json is throwing up on it? (line 150 Instance.pm) in above paste
21:25 < bunniefoofoo> maybe I need to update JSON.pm?
21:25 <@Haarg> the parameters it is trying to decode is the database field
21:26 <@Haarg> so that entire string
21:26 <@Haarg> which should decode fine
21:26 <@Haarg> seems like it is not retrieving it from the db properly
21:26 <@Haarg> i'm not certain
21:26 < bunniefoofoo> well, the field in the db does have newlines in it...
21:27 < bunniefoofoo> maybe a text encoding problem?
21:27 <@Haarg> newlines shouldn't be a problem
21:27 <@Haarg> malformed text data., at character offset 0 ["(end of string)"]
21:28 <@Haarg> means it is trying to decode an empty string
21:28 < bunniefoofoo> is {} legal? shouldn't there be something in there?
21:28 <+perlDreamer> {} is legal
21:28 <+perlDreamer> it's an empty JSON hash
21:28 < bunniefoofoo> ok
21:29 < bunniefoofoo> weird, i will print out the field before parsing to see whats in there
21:30 <@Haarg> perlDreamer, do you use anything like jt's resetdev or my wg-reset script?
21:30 <+perlDreamer> I use a slightly customized resetdev
21:30 <+perlDreamer> Should I be excited about your recent commit? :)
21:30 <@Haarg> ok, i just stuck a new version of my thing into svn/tools
21:31 <@Haarg> you might be interested
21:31 <+perlDreamer> sweet!  I'll check it out
21:31 <@Haarg> it has some additional commands
21:31 <@Haarg> and has help now
21:31 <@Haarg> so it's not a complete mystery how it works
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22:09 < bunniefoofoo> ok I found out more about my WorkflowInstance problem
22:10 < bunniefoofoo> when spectre starts, it looks like a whole bunch of workfowinstance objects are new'd and passed the correct field from workflowinstance thable, that is an empty parameters hash
22:10 < bunniefoofoo> but when the workflows go to run, a new workflow instance is created with empty parameters hash
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22:11 < bunniefoofoo> so I need to look closer at how spectre works I guess
22:12 < bunniefoofoo> how can I print a backtrace in perl?
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22:16 < Bernd_> bopbop, do you have a minute to help me harmonize settings for the German forum?
22:16 <@bopbop> sure
22:16 < BartJol> full room again
22:16 < Bernd_> I do not know what to set for karma and archival
22:16 < Bernd_> What is set for the other fora?
22:16 < Bernd_> I do not have permission to view...
22:16 <@bopbop> hang on- I'll head out there and take a look
22:16 < Bernd_> Thanks!
22:17 <@bopbop> I'll go ahead and edit the German forum to match, instead of telling you out here
22:18 < Bernd_> Even better. Thanks again!
22:18 <@bopbop> Bernd_: you should be set now
22:18 <@bopbop> take a look and let me know if you have any other questions
22:19 < Bernd_> Ok, checking...
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22:35 < bunniefoofoo> refresher on my workflow problem: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m72f53e85
22:35 < bunniefoofoo> the problem appears to be that these workflow instances in the database have NULL parameters
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22:36 < bunniefoofoo> the NULL is interpreted as an empty string in the resulting database query, which is passed to JSON::decode_json() which is illegal
22:36 < bunniefoofoo> the question remains how I should go about fixing this
22:37 < bunniefoofoo> I could simply assign empty parameters to all the NULLs in the WorkflowInstance table
22:38 <@Haarg> for the syndicated content workflows you should just be able to delete them
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22:44 < bunniefoofoo> update WorkflowInstance set parameters='{"parameters": {}}' where parameters is NULL;
22:44 < bunniefoofoo> seems to fix the problem
22:44 < bunniefoofoo> at least no more error output, don't know if bogus workflows will continue to generate
23:08 < bunniefoofoo> is there a script written to run a query on all webgui sites?
23:08 <@Haarg> nothing i know of off hand
23:10 < BartJol> bunniefoofoo: what are you looking for?
23:10 < bunniefoofoo> I have an update query which fixes a bug and I need to run it on ~50 databases
23:10 < BartJol> ai
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23:13 < BartJol> I'm not an mysql wizard, but can't you do that by logging in in mysql as the admin user?
23:16 <+perlDreamer> Sounds kind of like a WebGUI upgrade script
23:16 <+perlDreamer> it would iterate over all config files, then run the query on each one...
23:16 < Bernd_> Yeah, upgrade script!
23:16 <+perlDreamer> there's an upgrade script skeleton in /data/WebGUI/docs/upgrades
23:16 < Bernd_> There is a template.
23:16 < BartJol> that qould be the other option....
23:16 < Bernd_> Exactly that one.
23:16 < bunniefoofoo> I don't know, I'm not that familiar with mysql either, i guess I should hack the upgrade script...
23:17 <+perlDreamer> bunniefoofoo, do you know perl?
23:17 < BartJol> s/q/w
23:17 < bunniefoofoo> yes
23:17 <+perlDreamer> then you'll be fine
23:17 <@Haarg> upgrade scripts themselves don't run on multiple databases though
23:17 <+perlDreamer> no, they run on multiple config files
23:18 <@Haarg> no
23:18 <@Haarg> upgrade.pl does that
23:18 <+perlDreamer> hm
23:18 <@Haarg> the upgrade script itself only operates on a single config
23:19 <@Haarg> is there a way to get xargs to run a command once per parameter?
23:19 <+perlDreamer> sure
23:19 <+perlDreamer> ls something | xargs 
23:19 < bunniefoofoo> I am looking at "wre/webguiupdate" which runs on multiple configs
23:20 <@Haarg> xargs with no params will add all the params for a single run though
23:20 <@Haarg> bunniefoofoo, you may have better luck with WebGUI/sbin/search.pl
23:20 <@Haarg> it optionally operates across multiple sites
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23:29 < bunniefoofoo> offtopic, does anyone know when the arrow keys stopped working in vi, this is driving me nuts
23:29 < BartJol> maybe use vim instead
23:31 < bunniefoofoo> thanks, I always assumed vim was the default, I guess not
23:31 < BartJol>  not bnecessarily
23:32 < bunniefoofoo> ubuntu defaults to vim-tiny which has the problem I guess
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23:32 <@Haarg> vi will sometimes run vim instead, but in that case vim will use vi emulation mode or such
23:33 < Bernd_> perlDreamer, can you tell were default profile fields are defined that are created whenever a new site is created?
23:33 < Bernd_> tell me
23:33 < Bernd_> I am asking, because the showOnline field is still not created when I a create a new site.
23:33 < Bernd_> That is at least true for my local installation.
23:33 < Bernd_> Did I miss some upgrade script here?
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23:35 <+perlDreamer> Bernd_: for a brand new site, it would be create.sql
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23:35 <+perlDreamer> but it's only in the 7.6 branch
23:36 < Bernd_> one moment
23:36 < Bernd_> brushing my teeth :-)
23:36 <+perlDreamer> np ;)
23:36 <+perlDreamer> I'll have some lunch
23:36 < BartJol> oh, is it personal grooming time, maybe I should hone my razor
23:37 <+perlDreamer> you hippy!
23:37 < BartJol> there's an IRC channel for that too!
23:37 <+perlDreamer> did you see that I made some i18n commits for you to fix?
23:37 < BartJol> #srp
23:37 < BartJol> well, I fixed 7.6.2
23:37 < BartJol> but haven't looked further yet
23:38 < BartJol> can't do anthing between versions as far as I know
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23:38 < Bernd_> I am back again.
23:39 < Bernd_> Do I have to add the field to create.sql, too?
23:39 < Bernd_> perlDreamer, having lunch?
23:40 < Bernd_> Can you type with one hand?
23:40 < Bernd_> Hey, I want to go to bed!
23:40 < Bernd_> Hm.
23:40 < Bernd_> Going to bug you tomorrow.
23:40 < Bernd_> Good night!
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23:56 <+perlDreamer> Bernd_: Just in case you check the IRC logs
23:57 <+perlDreamer> The user profile fixes will be included in 7.6.3
23:57 <+perlDreamer> I missed the 7.6.2 release deadline
23:58 <+perlDreamer> if you grab a copy from SVN, it will be in there
23:58 <+perlDreamer> and I hand tested that the user profile field is added to make sure that it worked correctly
--- Day changed Tue Nov 11 2008
00:00 < BartJol> Bernd is gone perlDreamer
00:00 <+perlDreamer> Das wich ich schoen
00:00 <@Haarg> "$self->log('wtf am I faling for');" heh
00:01 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, did the i18n english echo conversation go anywhere?
00:01 < BartJol> typing?
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00:11 < bunniefoofoo> why would a completed workflow return to the runnable state?, and then run again immediately
00:11 < CIA-6> WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r8331 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Removed all instances of srand. This is called implicitily by rand and be dangerous if called mulitple times by the same process.
00:11 < CIA-6> WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r8332 /WebGUI/ (6 files in 5 dirs): Removed all instances of srand. This is called implicitily by rand and be dangerous if called mulitple times by the same process.
00:12 < bunniefoofoo> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m6d6300de
00:17 < BartJol> bunniefoofoo: what do you mean exactly, it only completes activities (parts of workflows)
00:17 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2: You are a programmer of incredible wisdom and insight.
00:17 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: ah, or someone who can read
00:19 < topsub> I am trying to write this activity but its winning.. here is my error http://webgui.pastebin.com/m36c9e645 here is my activity. http://webgui.pastebin.com/m6ed16394
00:19 < topsub> I also can't seem to get my test to pass it keeps saying "Can't locate object method "create" via package "WebGUI::Workflow::Activity::DeleteBroadcast" at DeleteBroadcast.t line 32." but i am using base
00:20 < topsub> So am kinda confused as to what ia m doing wrong or what i am missing
00:20 <+perlDreamer> perl -wc myActivity?
00:21 < topsub> DeleteBroadcast.pm syntax OK
00:22 <+perlDreamer> can you paste the test, too?
00:23 < topsub> here is my stripped version with just trying to setup the activity.. http://webgui.pastebin.com/m7129a34
00:23 <+perlDreamer> Do you see the problem in the test, or when spectre runs, too?
00:24 < topsub> when i run the test i get this.. Can't locate object method "create" via package "WebGUI::Workflow::Activity::DeleteBroadcast" at DeleteBroadcast.t line 32.
00:24 < topsub> that other pastebin error was from running it threw the website
00:24 < topsub> when i run the test i dont' see anyoutput into webgui.log
00:25 <+perlDreamer> I don't know why it isn't inheriting, but you can't call create without a workflow Id
00:25 <+perlDreamer> or an activity Id
00:26 <+perlDreamer> no, activity Id is fine without
00:26 < topsub> hmm i am taking this code from stuff william did
00:26 < topsub> not saying he is right
00:26 < topsub> but seems we have it in bunch of our activity test that were created before
00:26 <+perlDreamer> I wrote an activity test.  t/Workflow/Activity/NotifyAboutLowStock.pm
00:26 <+perlDreamer> there are lots of pitfalls in activities
00:27 < topsub> so your saying i need an workflowID
00:27 <+perlDreamer> well, yes and no
00:27 < topsub> seems my problem now is its just not inheriting
00:27 <+perlDreamer> If it could find create, you'd need a Workflow id
00:27 <+perlDreamer> does DeleteBroadcast live in /data/WebGUI/lib or elsewhere?
00:28 < topsub> lives in /data/site/nci/lib...
00:28 < topsub> a custom directory
00:28 <+perlDreamer> just for kicks, try moving it next to the others
00:29 < topsub> like in /data/WebGUI/t/WorkflowActivity?
00:29 <+perlDreamer> like /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity
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00:29 < topsub> oh wait not my test
00:29 < topsub> the workflow
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00:30 <+perlDreamer> right
00:30 <@Haarg> perlDreamer, i18n english echo conversation?
00:30 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, the idea that for english, i18n would simply always echo what it was sent
00:30 <@Haarg> ah
00:31 <+perlDreamer> with 4 exceptions, the i18n test will locate and tabulate all usage of i18n for you
00:31 <@Haarg> well, there's the unsolved problem of what to do for namespaces and the translation server
00:31 <@Haarg> the i18n test could be a foundation for that, but it doesn't fully work yet
00:32 <+perlDreamer> it probably won't ever fully work.  But it only fails on 4 i18n calls in all of WebGUI
00:32 <+perlDreamer> Help lookups, one place in Auth/LDAP and two others that I'm forgetting about, but are documented inside the test
00:32 < topsub> ah.. i think my problem was somehow i had a copy of it in the webgui/lib/webgui... directory so it was confused
00:32 < topsub> now i get the error "Can't use string ("OZcU-NGUoDbSMnEuFHiIPQ") as an ARRAY ref while "strict refs" in use at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL/ResultSet.pm line 135." Does this go back to what you were saying before pd?
00:32 <+perlDreamer> the translation server should be a no-op, since we're only changing the keys, not the values
00:33 <@Haarg> yeah, the translation server itself isn't the problem
00:33 <+perlDreamer> topsub, probably :)
00:33 <@Haarg> it's getting the list of all keys in the future
00:33 < SDuensin> Hey, is there an easy way to have the WRE send non-WebGUI requests to another Apache?  Currently, I'm making a conf for each non-WebGUI site and it's a pain.
00:33 <@Haarg> i need to learn more about PPI
00:34 <@Haarg> with the wre by default, all non-webgui content is handled by the mod_proxy server
00:35 < SDuensin> Haarg - Yea, but where does it go?  :-)  Basically I want www.notwebgui.com to be sent to another Apache for handling.
00:35 <@Haarg> you can create a different vhost for that domain
00:35 <@Haarg> just like are in the .modproxy files
00:35 <@Haarg> then you could either have mod_proxy serve the files directly
00:36 <@Haarg> or have a redirect with a proxy to direct it to a different web server
00:36 <@Haarg> rather, have a rewrite
00:36 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, anytime i18n keys are generated programmatically, like in Auth/LDAP.pm, you will never be able to scan for them.
00:36 <@Haarg> yeah
00:36 <+perlDreamer> So I was thinking a list of exclusions that have to be done manually
00:36 <+perlDreamer> with a STRONG discouragement from doing things that way
00:37 <+perlDreamer> like losing your SVN commit access
00:37 < SDuensin> Haarg - That's what I have now.  I was hoping for a "default" if a non-WebGUI site was encountered.
00:37 <@Haarg> the other case that isn't currently handled is scoping
00:37 <+perlDreamer> I know.  I can't make Perl::Critic reentrant without violating the module contract
00:38 <+perlDreamer> but there are only a few scoping errors, and they can be written out
00:38 <@Haarg> well
00:38 <@Haarg> i don't have a good answer for the test
00:38 <@Haarg> but we could do whatever we want for a script using ppi
00:38 <@Haarg> it will load the first vhost if you don't have one specified with a matching servername or serveralias
00:39 <+perlDreamer> Writing the PPI by hand would not be very fun.  That's why I chose Perl::Critic.
00:39 <+perlDreamer> maybe you could ask Chris Dolan's opinion at your next monger meeting
00:39 <@Haarg> well, perl::critic makes sense for a test
00:39 <@Haarg> i may
00:39 <@Haarg> so you can create a file like 000-default.modproxy
00:39 < bunniefoofoo> i am still wondering if I can kill all workflows with no ill side-effects
00:39 <@Haarg> and it will be loaded first
00:39 < bunniefoofoo> i have 11900 workflows and they aren't going anywhere
00:39 <@Haarg> bunniefoofoo, you can for the syndicated content ones
00:40 <@Haarg> and probably the ldap ones as well
00:40 <@Haarg> without knowing what the remaining ones are i couldn't say
00:40 < SDuensin> Haarg - But it only does that if it doesn't find a better match?
00:40 <@Haarg> yes
00:40 < SDuensin> Ok, coolness.  :-)  Thanks!
00:41 <@Haarg> so just have your default vhost in that initial file
00:48 < CIA-6> WebGUI: yung * r8333 /branch/WebGUI_Matrix2/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Matrix.pm: Added Compare box to Matrix v2
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00:53 < bunniefoofoo> haarg, assuming the sites are not live, can I kill the workflows?
00:53 <@Haarg> for the syndicated content ones, yes
00:55 < bunniefoofoo> well I did that and still 6600 workflows left
00:56 < bunniefoofoo> another option would be to accelerate spectre so it doesn't pause between workflows
00:56 < bunniefoofoo> since the sites won't be live when I do this
00:56 < bunniefoofoo> right now it only does 1 workflow per second, about
00:57 <@Haarg> what are the other workflows?
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00:57 <@Haarg> the ldap ones should be ok to remove as well
00:57 < bunniefoofoo> they are all hourly and daily maintenance tasks
00:57 <@Haarg> ok
00:57 <@Haarg> those are all fine to kill
00:57 < elnino> hmmm. I have some things that archived in some collaboration systesm. how does someone in marketing find these and "unarchive them?"
00:58 <@Haarg> search will find them
00:58 <@Haarg> or a direct link
00:58 < elnino> assuing you remember the name or the links....
00:58 < bunniefoofoo> example: process recurring payments, sycn user profiles with ldap, expire old subscription codes, "(none)", delete expired sessions, etc
00:58 < bunniefoofoo> most of them now are "(none)"
00:58 < bunniefoofoo> listed as hourly
00:59 <@Haarg> yeah, you can remove any of the maintenance workflows
01:00 <@Haarg> you said you are on 7.4.40 right?
01:00 <@Haarg> it would probably be a good idea to change the scheduled workflows to all be singleton
01:00 <@Haarg> we changed that in 7.5
01:02 < bunniefoofoo> yeah
01:02 < bunniefoofoo> if I can get this running without spewing errors like crazy I will upgrade
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01:07 < bunniefoofoo> well, I'm down to 450 workflows (deleted hourly/weekly/monthly maintenance workflows) 
01:07 < bunniefoofoo> I'll let it run tonight and see if these things all flush out
01:07 < bunniefoofoo> thanks for the help haarg
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01:10 < bunniefoofoo> do I need wre 0.8.5 to upgrade to 7.5.x or can I scrape by on wre 0.7.x
01:11 < BartJol> I would upgrade
01:11 < BartJol> not sure whether it is absolutely necessary
01:12 < bunniefoofoo> I would rather not since it may be tricky to get all the sites integrated
01:12 < bunniefoofoo> but I am worried about security issues with old apache/perl/mysql etc
01:13 < BartJol> check http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/migration-to-wre-0.8
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01:19 < elnino> hmm. I was hoping to whip upa report that would give me a list of posts/threads that have been archived. but I see no "bit" setting for archived. How does one determine if a post is archived?
01:21 <+perlDreamer> I believe that you check the asset status.
01:22 < elnino> I see the collaboration.archiveafter db field. do you compare that with the "lastpostdate" of the thread??
01:22 < elnino> oh. Lettme look at the asset status.
01:22 <+perlDreamer> look for "archived"
01:24 < elnino> ok. I'll take a look. Thanks! I think I'll post this on the bazzar when done, I would think this would be helpful.
01:25 <+perlDreamer> Good idea!
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02:28 < elnino> hey preaction.. I'm searching for class type "WebGUI::Asset::Post::Thread:, and the three threads that I know that are archived, have a assetData.status of "published"... is there another field that you recommend I look at?
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06:29 < elnino> hey preaction, don't know if you answered my last question long ago.. Kinda dropped off: I'm searching for class type "WebGUI::Asset::Post::Thread:, and the three threads that I know that are archived, have a assetData.status of "published"... is there another field that you recommend I look at?
06:31 < elnino> oh. dumb. Hold on.
06:36 < elnino> got it. I'm gonig to make a template and post it.
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17:18 < Guest69129> Hi
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17:26 < danny_mk> Good day everyone
17:27 < danny_mk> anyone using the webservices wobject?
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17:28 < danny_mk> three months ago got this new job and I am trying to sell webgui as a viable web development system
17:29 < danny_mk> if anyone has used the webservices wobject I could use a little help
17:29 <@perlmonkey2> danny_mk: what's the issue?
17:30 <@preaction> heh, it's a hunk of junk :p
17:30 < danny_mk> just the "SOAP Call Parameters" I wanted to use the FormParam macro but even when I put a static value in the box 
17:31 < danny_mk> the webservice does not seem to receive the parameter
17:31 < danny_mk> I wrote a small script to test the webservice and it works 
17:31 < danny_mk> hmmm... maybe I should test a public webservice first huh?
17:32 < danny_mk> Hey preaction, has there been any progress on the chat wobject?
17:33 <@preaction> danny_mk, none. there are still the two prototypes. one doesn't have many features, but is stable and fast. the other has lots of specific features and is slow and poorly-coded
17:34 < danny_mk> Would you guys mind if I did it my way?  I would like to take it on as it is a much needed wobject in my book
17:36 < danny_mk> I was given the code once but it did not even run on my development system
17:36 < danny_mk> maybe I need to play with it some more
17:37 <@preaction> yes, that was the second prototype i mentioned. the first one was only given at the WUC'07
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17:37 < danny_mk> which one do you prefer?
17:37 <@preaction> i wrote them both and they both fulfill exactly what i wanted them to
17:37 < danny_mk> LOL
17:38 <@preaction> i would think it easier to change the smaller one into something more powerful than to hack the larger one into a more generally useful application
17:38 < danny_mk> are they available now in the bazaar area?
17:39 <@preaction> no
17:39 <@preaction> the one you have will never be in the bazaar
17:39 <@preaction> unless you modify it extensively
17:39 < danny_mk> OK, where can I get a copy of the small one?
17:40 <@preaction> the other one is on http://webgui.tv in the Writing With YUI presentation
17:41 < danny_mk> Shoutbox.pm ???
17:41 <@preaction> the Shoutbox.pm
17:41 < danny_mk> ah, ok, thank you.
17:44 <@preaction> also, YMMV. that code was written for 7.4
17:44 <@preaction> as you can see though, it's insanely small
17:44 < danny_mk> it is ok, I can work with that.  Will give you an update when I make some progress
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18:07 < wgGuest> I have a blog related question, is there someone who might be able to help?
18:07 <@preaction> perlbot ask
18:07 <@preaction> perlbot?
18:07 <@preaction> hell
18:07 <@preaction> wgGuest, just ask, don't ask to ask.
18:08 < wgGuest> I've got a blog setup on a site, but when I go to add a post I can add a subject, but the WYSIWYG editor doesn't allow me to click into it.  It's unresponsive.  Any ideas?
18:09 <@preaction> is it loading? what's changed? what browser are you using? was it ever working?
18:12 < wgGuest> The editor is showing up, I just can't get focus in it actually edit.  the only change was adding the collaboration system.  I've tried this in FF3, IE7, and some early version of Chrome.  And no, it has not worked since I added it this morning, this is the first time I've tried to add a blog.
18:13 <@preaction> Are you sure it doesn't have focus? have you tried typing things into it? What version of WebGUI are you using?
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18:16 < wgGuest> nope, no focus.  tried clicking into it and typing and got nothing.  my curson also doesn't switch from an arrow to a text curson when I mouseover the text box.  The meta tag in my headers is saying "WebGUI 7.5.27".
18:16 <@preaction> can you reproduce on the demo server?
18:17 < wgGuest> I haven't tried
18:17 < wgGuest> let me give that a shot.
18:17 < wgGuest> I'm just wondering if it has something to do with our custom theme
18:18 <@preaction> it's possible, which is why you try to reproduce on a different site
18:19 < wgGuest> sure, setting it up now.
18:21 < wgGuest> Able to edit in the demo environment.
18:21 < wgGuest> I'm wondering if maybe there's some sort of onLoad/onDOMReady type JS stuff that I've failed to add to our theme.
18:22 < wgGuest> I know I had a similar issue once with Drupal, where I had failed to include something like that.
18:23 <@preaction> the javascript for the tinymce editor should get loaded automatically. it is possible that something could be clobbering it before it has a chance to load though
18:24 < wgGuest> What sort of things might do that?
18:24 < wgGuest> JavaScript
18:24 < wgGuest> or layout stuff?
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18:24 <@preaction> javascript
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18:24 <@preaction> hm... deja-vu
18:25 < wgGuest> I guess, being unfamiliar with the WG internals or TinyMCE, what should I be looking for?
18:27 <+perlDreamer> preaction, when making a js i18n object, do you have to specify all the labels that you want to fetch?
18:27 <@preaction> perlDreamer, presently, yes
18:28 <+perlDreamer> okay.
18:28 <+perlDreamer> I'm going to try a foray into js this week with some i18n
18:28 <@preaction> there are some revisions i want to make, where you can just specify the namespace and get them all back, some page-level caching, and some more intelligent lazy-loading, but that's in the future
18:29 <@preaction> wgGuest, i would first check for any JS errors by using Firebug, barring that, i would start set some breakpoints to make sure the tinyMCE was getting initialized properly.
18:29 < wgGuest> I see no errors in my Error Console on FF3.
18:30 < wgGuest> Firebug makes my computer almost unusable unfortunately
18:30 < wgGuest> or at least did when I tried it last, maybe I'm not setting something up correctly though.
18:30 < wgGuest> incorrectly, rather.
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18:34 < wgGuest> preaction, would my having JS in the body's onload conflict with some handler for TinyMCE?
18:34 <@preaction> it might
18:36 < wgGuest> any idea on a workaround to get my JS and the TinyMCE JS to both do things onLoad?
18:43 <@perlmonkey2> hmm, I seem to recall that there is another event you want to hook into for onLoad, since you can clobber other onLoads.  Can't remember what it is.
18:44 <@perlmonkey2> onDOMReady
18:50 <@preaction> wgGuest, did you first just try removing your stuff to see if the tinymce loads?
18:51 < wgGuest> no, I will do that.
18:55 < wgGuest> that has enabled the TineMCE editor, so I guess it's now just a question of figuring out how to do the various onLoad things for mine and TinyMCE's JS.
18:56 < wgGuest> Thanks for helping with this.
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19:16  * perlDreamer goes to the gym.
19:21 < Mech422> wgGuest: Plone uses a 'register()' type js function to allow multiple functions to be called when onLoad() fires...
19:21 < Mech422> wgGuest: perhaps you can do something like that ?
19:21 <@perlmonkey2> Tricky question about the SQLReports and the direct access hash for the template db columns.  row.field.name with spaces.value will never work.  So if you want to use a direct access to a column, outside of a loop, of a name with spaces, it won't work.  Is there any reason we can't replaces \s with _ ?
19:21 < wgGuest> Mech422, I actually removed my initialization stuff from the onLoad
19:21 < wgGuest> and used setTimeout
19:21 < wgGuest> to call that
19:21 < wgGuest> but it's still hosing the editor
19:22 < wgGuest> TinyMCE loads and is usable for a 2 seconds (the length of the timer on my setTimeout) but as soon as my code runs, TinyMCE stops working, and I'm not sure why.
19:23 < wgGuest> my code basically sets up some clouds scrolling in the background
19:23 < wgGuest> so I'm not sure if it's because it's modifying the DOM by adding elements
19:23 < wgGuest> or what.
19:24 < wgGuest> but something in there is doing something TinyMCE can't cope with.
19:24 < Mech422> wgGuest: Hmm - adding elements might piss it off... have you tried running your code FIRST, then tinymce ?
19:25 < Mech422> this way, the dom doesn't change after tinymce is initialized ?
19:28 < wgGuest> I'm not sure how to do that, TinyMCE is adding it's onload (or whatever) handler somewhere in its code and I don't have access to that
19:28 < wgGuest> it's be added by WG.
19:28 < wgGuest> unless you know of a way to tweak that?
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19:33 < Mech422> wgGuest: oh - its not a custom template ?
19:34 < Mech422> wgGuest: I thought you had a custom template you were hacking and could just reverse the includes :-P
19:37 < wgGuest> no, it is custom, but the blog editor that uses TinyMCE is generated by WG and it's adding in all of the JS includes
19:37 < wgGuest> is there a way to tweak that stuff?
19:37 < wgGuest> I am by no means a WG expert.
19:37 < wgGuest> but I'm sure that's fairly obvious.
19:39 < Mech422> my understanding is that you can change the template used to display each type of content, as well as the overall page...
19:40 < Mech422> I would probably create a 'custom template' for the blog stuff, and manually build up the js stuff just so I could see what was going on
19:40 < wgGuest> I guess I'll have to do some reading on that, I'm not at all familiar with the process.
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20:09 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2: I think you're good to go with that.  No problems with backwards compatibility :)
20:10 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: that's what knowmad and I concluded
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20:10 <+perlDreamer> well, y'all are the pros
20:21 < CIA-6> WebGUI: doug * r8334 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: DataForm now allows you to edit existing tabs
20:21 < CIA-6> WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r8335 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): SQLReport now replaces field name spaces with hyphens for the direct access template params.
20:21 < CIA-6> WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r8336 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): SQLReport now replaces field name spaces with hyphens for the direct access template params.
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20:33 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2, perlmonkey2
20:33 <+perlDreamer> He's our man
20:33 <+perlDreamer> If he can't
20:33 <+perlDreamer> do it
20:33 <+perlDreamer> We're in deep shit
20:33 < knowmad> Aye! Go perlmonkey2!
20:33 <+perlDreamer> ...That should be an indicator of just how crappy $dayJob is currently.
20:33 <@perlmonkey2> hahahahaha
20:34 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: I hear there is always a place for you in Madison.
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20:35 <+perlDreamer> I have thought a lot about that, perlmonkey2.
20:35 < knowmad> hey, perlDreamer hope you're tunneling this IRC conversation :)
20:35 <+perlDreamer> No.  They know that morale is poor.
20:36 < knowmad> that sucks but i like that chatter i'm hearing here....
20:54 < bunniefoofoo> is there a way to increase the rate the spectre processes workflows, I don't think it is fast enough to keep up with 70 sites
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20:57 < bunniefoofoo> I had 120 workflows waiting last night, now I have 940
20:58 < bunniefoofoo> the sites are not live so I am wondering whats wrong
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21:18 < knowmad> you sure spectre is working?
21:18 < knowmad> have you run spectre --test?
21:20 <@rizen> bunniefoofoo are your maxworkers set to 5, and seconds between workflows set to 1?
21:32 <+perlDreamer> preaction: How do I attach the i18n object to a master/container object?
21:37 <+perlDreamer> I made a half-hearted attempt to port what was in DataTable for i18n to the AssetManager
21:43 <@preaction> perlDreamer, in your constructor do something like this.i18n = new WebGUI.i18n();
21:43 <@preaction> then you can put the namespace and keys you need in that new WebGUI.i18n( ... ) call
21:44 <+perlDreamer> yes
21:44 <@preaction> you can also have it run something when it gets the answer back from the server, like your object's real init function
21:49 <+perlDreamer> preaction: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m72f6c3f6
21:49 <+perlDreamer> Lines 332-344 is the init code
21:49 <+perlDreamer> and I try to use it on line 64 to i18n the Edit label
21:50 <@preaction> ah, that's not OO code, that's functional code
21:51 <@preaction> so instead of this, try something like WebGUI.AssetManager.i18n = 
21:51 <@preaction> then use that to refer to it
21:51 <@preaction> ill admit it's a bit clunky
21:51 <+perlDreamer> for access, WebGUI.AssetManager.i18n.get
21:51 <+perlDreamer> ?
21:51 <@preaction> yeah
21:52 <+perlDreamer> I was feeling my oats this morning with the i18n issues, but I think for now I'll leave the declunkification of the AssetManager to the masters
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21:57 < bunniefoofoo> rizen, it was on workers 3 time between 4, I changed to 5/1 and I'll see if that works, thanks
21:57 <@rizen> that will work
21:59 <+perlDreamer> preaction, no go.  I'll repaste some more code.
22:01 <+perlDreamer> after lunch
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22:51 <@perlmonkey2> preaction: what should happen when a user clicks on a package in the assetManager?
22:52 <@perlmonkey2> shoudl it deploy that package to the parent of hte page?
22:53 <@perlmonkey2> or is the problem it deploys to that page, but then also shows view on the new asset?
23:00 <@Haarg> sounds like the problem is that it views the new asset
23:01 <@Haarg> instead of returning to the asset manager
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--- Day changed Wed Nov 12 2008
00:00 <@perlmonkey2> assets containing other assets is done through lineage, right?  So if there is a bug where moving an asset to another asset causes all of its revisions to also move, that would be something altering the lineage of all versions?
00:00 <@preaction> perlmonkey2, lineage isn't versioned
00:01 <@preaction> somehow all the revisions are being placed under the same tagId (located in the assetData table)
00:01 <@perlmonkey2> and it is also how assets know their child/parent relation?
00:01 <@preaction> lineage and parentId are how they know, yes
00:02 <@perlmonkey2> if lineage isn't versioned, then when an asset is moved, all of its versions are also moved, rigth?
00:02 <@Haarg> moved in the tree, yes
00:03 <@perlmonkey2> then is http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/8837  a bug then?
00:03 <@preaction> i wouldn't think of it like that, lineage and versioning do not interact. that's why cut and copy warn you "this change is not versioned"
00:03 <@perlmonkey2> oh, I'm misreading the bug.  Its about moving an asset into a version, not under a new asset.
00:04 <@preaction> yeah, it's the WebGUI::Operation::VersionTag screen
00:04 <@preaction> www_manageRevisionsInTag or something
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00:10 <@preaction> quick OT question: Is it RFC822 / 2822 legal to not have a From: header in an e-mail?
00:16 <@Haarg> perlmonkey2: looks like it's a problem in Asset::setVersionTag
00:18 <@perlmonkey2> ah, someone with higher privs than me, can you tell me if force ssl login is set at pb.com?
00:18 < Lisette> how to do to get the total price of the cart?
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00:25 <+perlDreamer> Lisette: perldoc WebGUI::Shop::Cart
00:33 <+perlDreamer> preaction, no luck with clunky assignment
00:33 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI.AssetManager.i18n = new WebGUI.i18n( {
00:33 <@perlmonkey2> can an asset get its version id?
00:34 <@perlmonkey2> $self->session->db->write("update assetData set tagId=? where assetId=?", [$tagId, $self->getId]); needs to only update the tagId of the selected tagId, not all assetId's.
00:34 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2, that's exactly right
00:35 <@perlmonkey2> so now I need to find out how to get the current version tag id.
00:35 <+perlDreamer> in sql or in perl?
00:35 <+perlDreamer> in sql, I'd use max versionDate
00:35 <@Haarg> ->get('tagId')
00:36 <@Haarg> or ->get('revisionDate')
00:36 <@perlmonkey2> where assetId = $self->getId() and tagId = $self->get('tagId')
00:36 <@perlmonkey2> that will get the current version's info and not the last version's info?
00:37 <@perlmonkey2> I guess so.  only makes sense.
00:37 <@perlmonkey2> else versioning wouldn't work :)
00:38 <@Haarg> hmm
00:38 <@Haarg> well, from the look of the ui, it is revision based, not asset based
00:39 <@Haarg> so you'd want to follow what it says in the pod for setVersionTag - change only the current revision
00:39 <@preaction> perlDreamer, the issue is that it makes an AJAX call, so you need to wait for that to return before you can use any labels. 
00:40 <@preaction> AJAX is async, so you have to have a callback, hence the "onpreload" event
00:41 <@preaction> question for the crowd: Is it Good that we allow multiple revisions of the same asset in a single version tag, or should those be consolidated into one revision?
00:41 <@preaction> imho it's more confusing than anything
00:42 <@preaction> (having multiple revisions of the same asset in a version tag)
00:42 <@Haarg> i'm not sure
00:43 <@preaction> i understand the benefits, but i don't think the added complexity is worth it
00:43 <@Haarg> added complexity for the user you mean?
00:43 <@Haarg> because changing it would involve extra complexity in the code unless i'm missing something
00:44 <@preaction> yeah for the end-user
00:44 <@preaction> it wouldn't be too much complexity in the code, a hook in addRevision, no?
00:44 <@preaction> well, some code in there at least
00:44 <@preaction> that may not be the ideal solution of course
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01:09 <+perlDreamer> preaction, I'm going to need some help with the callback, too.
01:11 <@preaction> perlDreamer, okay. basically take everything that was in that initialization function and put it in a new function (initDataTable perhaps). then create the i18n in the original init function and have it have the following additional config:
01:12 <@preaction> onpreload : WebGUI.AssetManager.initDataTable
01:12 <@preaction> that should work
01:12 <@preaction> if it doesn't, try -- onpreload : { fn: WebGUI.AssetManager.initDataTable }
01:12 <+perlDreamer> so the only thing in WebGUI.AssetManager.initManager should be the i18n instanciation?
01:13 <@preaction> yup
01:13 <@preaction> unless there's something you don't need i18n for
01:14 <@preaction> i realize it's kind of a roundabout way to do this, but imho it's cleaner maintenance: it keeps everything in JS. there's more of the asset manager that could be in the JS, and just the data methods are AJAX calls written in Perl
01:16 <+perlDreamer> I agree.  And I like the wholesale prefetch better than a post-init, fetch on demand
01:16 <+perlDreamer> but it's not working
01:16 <+perlDreamer> now the whole data table is gone
01:16 <+perlDreamer> and the error console is empty of everything but sam warnings
01:18 <+perlDreamer> Here's a paste: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m7054bc48
01:19 <@preaction> perlDreamer, trailing comma line 221
01:19 <@preaction> also line 217
01:20 <@preaction> and 351-363 aren't needed
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01:36 <@Haarg> perlmonkey2, you around?
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01:46 <+perlDreamer> preaction: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m555e3f21
01:46 <+perlDreamer> still no datatable
01:50 <@preaction> caching problem perhaps? firebug active?
02:01 <+perlDreamer> no firebug
02:01 <+perlDreamer> I'll kill my caches on server and client and try agani
02:01 <+perlDreamer> again
02:03 < SDuensin> Evening all.
02:08 <+perlDreamer> Howdy, SDuensin
02:10 < SDuensin> What's the word?  I've been out.
02:11  * perlDreamer does not know JS.  That's the word.
02:11 <@preaction> Thunderbird!
02:12 < SDuensin> JS isn't too bad once you get the hang of it.
02:17 < SDuensin> Go crazy and just use ObjJ.  :-)
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03:48 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8337 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/ (Wobject/SyndicatedContent.pm Event.pm Wobject/Survey.pm): clean up pod, syntax, warning problems
03:48 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8338 /WebGUI/ (8 files in 8 dirs): improved performance of file uploads and changed format of created uploads locations, avoiding case sensitivity problems
03:48 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8339 /WebGUI/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.6.3 release
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04:59 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8340 /WebGUI/ (25 files in 11 dirs): Backing out Survey for now
04:59 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8341 /WebGUI/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.6.3 release
05:01 <+perlDreamer> No Survey2?
05:02 <+perlDreamer> What's up?
05:02 <@khenn> I believe survey2 is getting a manicure
05:02 <@Haarg> upgrade is messed up
05:02 <+perlDreamer> I see.  Cuticles, nails, buff and polish?
05:03 <@Haarg> i'm not going to be able to get it working tonight, so i'm pulling it out so i can release
05:03 <@khenn> or that
05:04 <+perlDreamer> You were close, khenn
05:05 <@khenn> close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear bombs
05:05 <@khenn> =)
05:05 <+perlDreamer> What about bean farts?
05:06 <@khenn> nope
05:06 <+perlDreamer> or is that included in the nuclear bomb category?
05:06 <@khenn> heh
05:06 <+perlDreamer> time to transform from overworked chip designer into child hygiene specialist
05:06 <+perlDreamer> bbiaw
05:06 <@khenn> I suppose 
05:31 < CIA-6> WebGUI: jt * r8342 /releases/WebGUI_7.6.3-beta: Release 7.6.3-beta
05:31 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8343 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): preparing for 7.6.4 dev
05:31 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8344 /WebGUI/ (25 files in 10 dirs): adding survey back in
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15:31 < CIA-6> WebGUI: translation * r8345 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (6 files): Update from translation server
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16:22 < SDuensin> Greetings.
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16:31 < ckotil> Any ideas on this workflow error Im seeing after upgrading? http://webgui.pastebin.com/m7a55d78d
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16:39 < ckotil> could the 'wait until' activity be the reason for the undefined value as a scalar reference?
16:39 < ckotil> the wait until activity is missing from my workflows.
16:40 < BartJol> I think it cam
16:40 < BartJol> can
16:40 < ckotil> i sure hope so
16:40 < BartJol> if it's undefined
16:40 < ckotil> will i need to recreate my workflows to incorporate hte new activity?
16:41 < BartJol> if that is the problem, yes
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16:41 < BartJol> :)
16:42 < ckotil> THanks
16:42 < Lisette> anyone knows in which table of database of webgui keeps the data when i add a product in the cart?
16:42 < BartJol> well, thank me when it helped
16:43 < BartJol> Lisette: several
16:43 < Lisette> you can tell me?
16:44 < BartJol> depends on what you need
16:45 < BartJol> Products are assets, so in the assetData table, in the Product table
16:45 < BartJol> maybe more
16:47 < Lisette> i need knows that user add a product in the cart
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16:55 < Lisette> how to do to knows that user add a product in the cart and which?
16:56 < topsub> you want to know when a user adds a product to the cart and what product?
16:57 < Lisette> yes
17:05 < topsub> One way might to alter the add to cart function to call a macro or something to let you know what just got added
17:05 <@rizen> Lisette at any time you can query the cart to find out what's in it
17:06 < SDuensin> Hey rizen - Sorry I missed your message yesterday.  I was busy being unconscious.
17:06 <@rizen> but to have it trigger an event in your code...that's not really likely unless you write your own sku's
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17:08 < Lisette> the table is called cart?
17:10 < Lisette> he cart does not distinguish a cart for each user?
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17:13 <@bopbop> Lisette: I think the cart distinguishes by session, not user
17:13 <@bopbop> but that's about all I know
17:13 < SDuensin> Hey rizen_ - Sorry I missed your message yesterday.  I was busy being unconscious.   (Resent since you pinged out.)
17:15 < rizen_> Lisette: if you call my $cart = WebGUI::Shop::Cart->newBySession($session);
17:15 < rizen_> that will get you a cart object
17:15 < rizen_> and then you can call getItems() on the cart object
17:15 -!- rizen_ is now known as rizen
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17:16 <@rizen> that will get you a list of items that are in the cart
17:16 <@rizen> for the current user
17:20 < Lisette> thanks
17:22 < Lisette> and how to do to know when the checkout is successful, the keeps in any table?
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17:27 <@preaction> Lisette, once the checkout is successful it's not a cart anymore, it's a transaction. you can use WebGUI::Shop::Transaction to get at it
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17:31 < Lisette> i can use this in a macro?
17:34 < Lisette> alls transactions are in the table transaction?
17:34 <@rizen> yes, but don't query the table directly
17:34 <@rizen> use the API
17:36 < Lisette> if i need consult that user buy a specific item in any time, i can use the api? 
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17:46 < Lisette> ?
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17:53 < carogray> quick question on looking at list of users in Admin Console
17:53 < carogray> good morning/afternoon
17:54 < carogray> in the column that says "status" 2 people have "success" in their row
17:54 < carogray> what does "success" mean and what about the people who have nothing in the "status" column in their row - what is going with them?
17:56 <+MrHairgrease> lisette: you can use the api for virtually anything you want to ask webgui
17:57 <+MrHairgrease> if you are writing sql queries againt the webgui tables there's a big chance you should be using the api
17:57 <@rizen> success means they have successfully logged in
17:57 <@rizen> at some point
17:58 < Lisette> but how to create the new object? i have do a query with the id?
17:58 <+MrHairgrease> no
17:58 <+MrHairgrease> just read the documentation
17:58 < Lisette> ok
17:58 <@rizen> carogray...it shows you whether their last login was successful, a failure, or if they never tried to log in
17:58 <+MrHairgrease> you proilly want to look at WebGUI::Shop::transaction
17:59 <+MrHairgrease> and WG::S::TransactionItem
17:59 <+MrHairgrease> anyway
17:59 <+MrHairgrease> bye
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18:05 < CIA-6> WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r8346 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetVersioning.pm): When you move an asset to a new version, only the current version is moved, instead of all of them.
18:05 < CIA-6> WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r8347 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetVersioning.pm): When you move an asset to a new version, only the current version is moved, instead of all of them.
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18:46 < Lisette> i can know the transaction specific of an user of a item specific?
18:47 < carogray> rizen: thanks for the answers, but does this information get updated when we get an upgrade? One of my editors just tried to login, he has been logging in not frequently but has done so a number of times in the last 2 years and there is no "success" next to his name?
18:48 < carogray> in fact..he phoned me cause He couldn't login - wouldn't that constitute a 'failure" he had the right user name but not the right pw
18:49 < Lisette> or i have to do process all transaction for a specified user and process all items for each transaction?
18:49 <@rizen> carogray: for a full detailed list check the user login history in the admin console
18:50 <@rizen> carogray: also note that the user login history only lasts for 90 days, there is a workflow the cleans it up...but you can change that if you like
18:50 < topsub> is there an api to add keywords to an asset?
18:50 <@rizen> $asset->update(keywords=>"list of keywords goes here"
18:52 <@perlmonkey2> Anyone have any novel ideas on how to resolve this bug?  I've look through the db and logs and just don't see how it happened.  http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/authentication-problem
18:54 <@rizen> it's likely a problem with SSO.pm in Operation or the two SSO buttons in the upper right corner of the plainblack / webgui site
18:54 < topsub> ahh thanks rizen
18:55 <@rizen> if those buttons got cached somehow..they could cause the problem i suppose
18:55 < Lisette> ???
18:58 <@rizen> Lisette: i have no idea what you're asking, and unfortunately i now have to leave
18:58 <@rizen> read the API
18:58 -!- rizen is now known as rizenisaway
19:06 <@Haarg> perlmonkey2, i've looked at that bug several times and still can't come up with anything
19:06 <@perlmonkey2> Haarg: close it as unrepeatable?
19:07 <@Haarg> my only thought is that the random number generator created two duplicate session ids, but that seems very unlikely
19:07 <@Haarg> i guess
19:07 <@Haarg> best i can dome up with
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19:30 <+perlDreamer> preaction, willing to have another go at it?
19:30 <+perlDreamer> I'll start trying to get firebug installed
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19:35 <@preaction> perlDreamer, i can try to help, but i've got this pesky server performance problem to work out today
19:36 <+perlDreamer> Okay.  I'm just not sure how to go about debugging the js from here.
19:36 <+perlDreamer> the DataTable in the AssetManager is not showing up at all
19:36 <+perlDreamer> and the Error Console is empty
20:11 <@preaction> perlDreamer, firstly, open Firebug and choose the "Script" tab, then on one of the Options menus there is "Break on all errors", select that and reload
20:11 <@preaction> be careful though, that may cause firefox itself to start locking up, so have your Force Quit ready
20:12 <+perlDreamer> kill -9 fixes all evils ;)
20:14 <@preaction> doesn't fix init :P
20:30 <+perlDreamer> preaction: var postJson = 'request=' + YAHOO.lang.JSON.stringify( obj ) ; ---> YAHOO.lang.JSON has no properties"
20:31 <@preaction> perlDreamer, you need to include $session->url->extras( 'yui/build/json/json-min.js' ); in the page
20:53 <+perlDreamer> you mean that JS doesn't drag it its own dependencies, and they have to be manually resolved at the top?
20:53 <@preaction> essentially yes
20:54 <@preaction> i developed that code before the YUI Loader went stable
20:54 <@preaction> and not sure if it is stable yet technically
20:56 < carogray> rizen: thanks
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22:05 <+perlDreamer> Just came across a good one I thought that I'd share
22:06 <+perlDreamer> I tried to start apache and got this:
22:06 <+perlDreamer> [Wed Nov 12 11:09:08 2008] [crit] (28)No space left on device: mod_rewrite: could not create rewrite_log_lock
22:06 <+perlDreamer> Googling says that I'm out of sockets, but none of the recommended scripts worked correctly, so I hacked them up to get this:
22:06 <+perlDreamer> ipcs -s | perl -ane 'next unless /apache/; print `ipcrm sem $F[1]`;'
22:06 <+perlDreamer> and it worked
22:07 < SDuensin> That's voodoo, man!
22:09 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin, I'm a command-line voodoo shaman
22:09 <+perlDreamer> for perl
22:11 < SDuensin> Nice.  WebGUI + Mac = Painless.
22:11 <+perlDreamer> All the PB guys dev on Macs.  That's why.
22:11 < SDuensin> They're geniuses.  I knew it.
22:14 <+perlDreamer> I heard that Jobs gives them a kickback
22:15 < SDuensin> Hell.  I should get one.  Even got my M$ Vista Fanboy coworker using a Mac.  :-)
22:20 -!- rizenisaway is now known as rizen
22:23 < SDuensin> He's back!
22:23 < SDuensin> That was a hell of a lunch.  :-)
22:35 < Lisette> i can save data in a different database of webgui in an utility? 
22:36 <@preaction> Lisette, you can use DBI to connect to whatever database you want, sure
22:36 < Lisette> how to do, with $session->dbh?
22:37 < Lisette> off course i have $databaseLink
22:42 <@preaction> Lisette, if you have a databaselink then do $databaseLink->dbh
22:43 <@preaction> er... $databaseLink->db (it's a WebGUI::SQL object, just like $session->db)
22:43 <@preaction> or you could use DBI directly: use DBI; my $dbh = DBI->connect( ... );
22:44 <+perlDreamer> preaction: no more JS errors, but no DataTable either
22:46 < Lisette> ok! then i don't need to add of webgui! thanks
22:50 <@preaction> perlDreamer, i would next try to make sure my code was being run. By using the Script tab, you can view the scripts (click on the text next to Inspect to see a list of scripts). You can set a breakpoint on the far left clicking in the gutter.
22:51 <+perlDreamer> roger that, coach
22:51 <@preaction> if the initDataTable isn't getting run, it means something's up with the i18n
22:51 <@preaction> also, check the Console tab, it should have a list of all the AJAX calls made, along with the response and request data for them
22:52 <@preaction> if the i18n ajax call failed, that might cause what you're seeing
22:55 <+perlDreamer> what do green line numbers mean?
22:55 <@preaction> where? in the console?
22:55 <+perlDreamer> when inspecting a script
22:55 <@preaction> dunno, don't think i've seen a green line number
22:57 <@preaction> looks like green line numbers are executable lines
22:57 <@preaction> maybe that means you could enter them into the console command-line?
22:59 <+perlDreamer> I only have green line numbers in the top 20 lines of the file.
22:59 <+perlDreamer> No dangling comments or anything
22:59 <+perlDreamer> I'll set the breakpoint, in any case.
22:59 <+perlDreamer> After setting the breakpoint, how do I rerun the JS?
23:00 <@preaction> reload the page
23:00 <@preaction> the firebug will keep across reloads or clicked links
23:02 <+perlDreamer> BP1 hit okay
23:02 <+perlDreamer> but...
23:02 <+perlDreamer> a 2nd breakpoint inside the initDataTable function is not hit
23:02 <+perlDreamer> it's like the preload callback inside the i18n isn't being called
23:03 <+perlDreamer> onpreload   : {  fn       : WebGUI.AssetManager.initDataTable222   }
23:03 <+perlDreamer> no 222's there
23:03 <+perlDreamer> onpreload   : {  fn       : WebGUI.AssetManager.initDataTable   }
23:06 <@preaction> now here's the fun part... set a breakpoint inside www/extras/yui-webgui/build/i18n/i18n.js inside the "success" callback
23:06 <@preaction> set it so you can step through it and see if/where it stops running
23:06 < SDuensin> Saw some talk about git in here awhile back when I was lurking.  PlainBlack still uses SVN, right?
23:07 <@preaction> alternatively, you could add console.log("HI"); to various points in the i18n.js file to see what's happening
23:07 <@preaction> console.log() gets picked up by Firebug and put into the Console tab
23:07 <@preaction> i didn't ask: Did a POST show up in the Console tab?
23:07 <@preaction> SDuensin, i believe we'll be moving to git someday
23:07 <@preaction> unless you don't want us to, then we'll stay with SVN
23:08 < SDuensin> Oh, good.  :-)
23:08 <@preaction> wait... am i supposed to help you or hinder you?
23:08  * SDuensin was wanting to learn git anyway.
23:09 < SDuensin> Currently yanking down the SVNs of 7.5 and 7.6 though.
23:12 < Lisette> if i want to know the id of a product or an asset i do the next? $asset->getId; ??
23:13 <+perlDreamer> Yes, Lisette.
23:14 < Lisette> thanks
23:14 < Lisette> :D
23:20 <+perlDreamer> preaction: console panel is disabled
23:20 <@preaction> perlDreamer, that's weird... sounds like a kill -9 situation
23:21 <@preaction> or maybe i just don't know, but that's what i do when firebug starts misbehaving like that
23:21 <+perlDreamer> I think it's working right, I just need to enable the panel
23:21 <+perlDreamer> are onpreload.obj and opt.onpreload.override optional?
23:21 <+perlDreamer> alternately, how do I check out this.subscribe?
23:22 <+perlDreamer> wait a sec
23:22 <+perlDreamer> when is the callback supposed to be triggered?
23:22 <+perlDreamer> on a call to get?
23:22 <+perlDreamer> (crap, meeting in 8 minutes)
23:24 <@preaction> the callback is supposed to get called after the AJAX call returns
23:24 <@preaction> see i18n.load 
23:25 <@preaction> it uses YUI Connection to grab a page, and gives a callback to Connection.asyncRequest. this callback then calls the onpreload callback
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23:29 < CIA-6> WebGUI: jt * r8348 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed some caching and parsing problems
23:29 < CIA-6> WebGUI: jt * r8349 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/GetSyndicatedContent.pm: a little better handling of scratch variables
23:29 < CIA-6> WebGUI: jt * r8350 /WebGUI/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt: fixes for syndicated content
23:29 < CIA-6> WebGUI: doug * r8351 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/ProfileField.pm): fixed: ProfileField->formField now uses the correct method for determining if the form field was submitted with the current request
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23:55 <@perlmonkey2> Haarg: hmm, does wgd --reset do anything?
23:55 <@perlmonkey2> looking at the code, I don't see anything
23:55 <@Haarg> shouldn't
23:55 <@Haarg> wgd reset does
23:55 <@Haarg> but very little without extra options
23:58 <@perlmonkey2> perl wgd --config-file=.conf reset -d or something , Haarg ?
23:58 <@Haarg> well
23:59 <@Haarg> if you have it executable and in your path you don't need the perl
--- Day changed Thu Nov 13 2008
00:00 <@perlmonkey2> Haarg: that thing is amazing.  There are a gazillion options.
00:00 <@Haarg> and if you have environment variables set you don't need the --config-file
00:00 <@Haarg> or if you only have one site
00:01 <@perlmonkey2> how long have you been working on that?
00:02 <@Haarg> heh
00:02 <@Haarg> i don't know exactly, i started working on it before last year's wuc
00:02 <@Haarg> and it's just evolved since then
00:03 <@perlmonkey2> well it is a really cool tool to have.  the old tools I used all the time, but this thing looks a lot more powerful.
00:03 <@Haarg> reset isn't substantially different, but it's set up to have plugins
00:04 <@Haarg> and has a basic api for doing simple things
00:04 <@Haarg> i have a separate script that combines a set of .pm files into that one script so it is easy to distribute
00:06 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8352 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Session/Style.pm: encode html entities when used in a setLink or setScript attribute value
00:06 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8353 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/SyndicatedContent.pm: use epoch date for syndicated content items
00:06 < CIA-6> WebGUI: doug * r8354 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ProfileField.pm: apply r8351 to 7.6
00:06 <@perlmonkey2> nice
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00:21 < Lisette> the method $asset->getId, shows me an error, how to do to get the id of an asset that i create recently?
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00:23 <@Haarg> that is how you do it
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00:23 <@Haarg> if it isn't working, there's probably something wrong with how you are creating the asset
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00:25 <@preaction> what's the error you get?
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00:25 < Lisette> Can't call method "getId" on an undefined value at videoImport.pl line 214.
00:25 < Lisette> but i see in the website and the asset are created correctly
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00:32 <+perlDreamer> patspam, you're making me dizzy.
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00:33 <@preaction> shit...
00:33 -!- mode/#webgui [+b patspam*!*@*] by preaction
00:33 <@preaction> oh, wait
00:34 <@preaction> humph... should i just let him message someone to get let back in?
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00:36 < Lisette> i can call $asset->getId later of create it?
00:37 < patspam> perlmonkey2: sorry
00:37 < patspam> laptop fighting with my desktop for irc supremacy
00:37 <@preaction> didn't know if you were there or not
00:41 < Lisette> don't works asset->getId
00:41 <@preaction> Lisette, what is the error message you get? "doesn't work" is useless information
00:43 < Lisette> Can't call method "getId" on an undefined value at videoImport.pl line 217.
00:43 <@preaction> Lisette, that means $asset is undefined. 
00:44 < Lisette> ok, thanks
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01:10 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8355 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Macro.pm: better variable name in macro parser
01:10 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8356 /branch/frank/ (28 files in 11 dirs): lots of changes
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01:56 < SDuensin> Evening
01:56 <@preaction> evening
01:56 <@preaction> i found an Article on my site that takes 556 seconds to render!
01:56 <@preaction> i think that makes me awesome
01:58 < nuba> scary
01:58 < SDuensin> Good lord.
01:58 < SDuensin> Hope you're not using my HGR macro.  :-)
01:58 <@preaction> nope
01:58 <@preaction> average time for my articles is 5 seconds. i think something's wrong
01:59 <@preaction> and i have a gut feeling it's in my Navigations
02:02 <+Radix-wrk> Almost 10 minutes to render one article?
02:03 <+Radix-wrk> err.. something is definitely wrong
02:03 <@preaction> yeah
02:03 < SDuensin> Maybe it's a really good article?
02:03 <@preaction> i went to the URL in my browser and it took 30 seconds for a response
02:03 < nuba> well, unless you have something like  ^sleep(556); on it
02:03 < nuba> maybe it calls a macro that does number crunching
02:04 <+Radix-wrk> that page is a honeypot for IIS hackers perhaps?
02:04 < nuba> like, ^proteinfolding(albumin);
02:04 <@preaction> Radix-wrk, no, i wish it were that simple
02:04 <+Radix-wrk> I mean, IIS users would expect that kind of delay
02:05 <+Radix-wrk> the page is seceding from the site and it's part of it's revolt
02:06 < nuba> you mean, like a hunger strike?..
02:06 < nuba> "i refuse to be rendered unless my demands are met"
02:06 < nuba> sounds nice
02:08 <+Radix-wrk> yeah, it's a plausable explanation anyway!
02:09 < SDuensin> What could it possibly want?  You're letting it run on WebGUI!
02:10 < nuba> maybe thats what spoiled it
02:10 < nuba> gets everything all too easily
02:11 < nuba> you know what? give that article a day in p*nukeland
02:11  * SDuensin shudders
02:12 < nuba> that lil'punk will learn it the hard way
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02:25 <+perlDreamer> preaction: Maybe it's time to write the article called, "WebGUI _is_ your problem".
02:26 <@preaction> UNPOSSIBLE!
02:27 < SDuensin> hehehe
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03:00 <+Radix-wrk> Hmm.. anyone know the template variable in the file object template to get the summary field?
03:03 <+Radix-wrk> Ahh.. don't worry.. figured it out
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08:52 < MikeXYZ> i dont have a ssh option with my hostingprovider....
08:52 < MikeXYZ> can i still install webgui? 
08:58 <@preaction> MikeXYZ, no
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16:04 < SDuensin> Morning.
16:06 <+MrHairgrease> greasings!
16:07 < SDuensin> How's things?
16:08 <+MrHairgrease> I'm trying to compile wre 0.8.5 fow ubuntu 8.10
16:08 <+MrHairgrease> which is kinda
16:08 <+MrHairgrease> not very fun
16:09 <+MrHairgrease> ubuntu 8.10 comes with a new compiler with more stricter compile flag built in
16:09 <+MrHairgrease> anyway
16:09 <+MrHairgrease> the result is that I have to patch to much stuff
16:10 <+MrHairgrease> that isn't the bad thing though
16:10 <+MrHairgrease> finding how to patch em is
16:10 < SDuensin> I was just a wimp and installed the existing WRE for Ubuntu.
16:11 <+MrHairgrease> woohoo
16:11 <+MrHairgrease> mysql compiled without fixing stuff!
16:12 < SDuensin> :-D
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17:31 <+MrHairgrease> whew, everything compiles now
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17:46 < CIA-6> WebGUI: amhhenry * r8357 /branch/alphamega/t/VersionTag.t: Added tests for versionTagMode
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17:50  * SDuensin cheers for MrHairgrease 
17:54 <+MrHairgrease> thanks
17:54 <+MrHairgrease> I'm running ./build.sh --all right now
17:54 <+MrHairgrease> to be sure I forgot nothing
17:55 <+crythias> WebGUI is pretty neat. Although, I am having a bit of trouble with "Hide from navigation" override
17:55 <+MrHairgrease> but compiling the wre for ubuntu 8.10 surely is a pain in the ass
17:55 <+MrHairgrease> what's the problem crythias
17:55 < SDuensin> What's the major advantage over the existing 6.06 WRE?  Other than it's not built against old stuff.
17:56 <+crythias> hide from navigation override for shortcut seems to not function with me.
17:56 <+crythias> 7.5.21
17:56 <+MrHairgrease> well, on my laptop i run 8.10
17:56 <+MrHairgrease> I guessing the ubuntu crew updated some libs over the last 2.5 years
17:57 <+MrHairgrease> so you prolly can't run the 6.06 wre on 8.10
17:57 < SDuensin> I run 8.10, too.  Just didn't bother updating the WRE.
17:57 < SDuensin> No.  It runs.  :-)
17:57 <+MrHairgrease> heh
17:58 <+MrHairgrease> crythias have you checked the changelog?
17:58 <+MrHairgrease> maybe it's fixed in a later version
17:58 <+MrHairgrease> if not post a bug report
17:58 <+MrHairgrease> but first try to reproduce on beta.wegui,org
18:01 < bunniefoofoo> should I have spectre and apache/modperl running when I do webguiupdate?
18:07 <@rizen> crythias: the overrides work only for display in the asset
18:08 <@rizen> it won't work for other assets using the asset
18:08 <@rizen> for example, in navigation
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18:08 <+crythias> OK, so when does that navigation override option actually work?
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18:11 <+snapcount> does the helpdesk in the experimental branch require 7.6 or will it work with 7.5
18:23 <@Haarg> 7.6 only
18:25  * SDuensin keeps drooling on 7.6.
18:27 <@rizen> crythias: i don't know what you're talking about
18:27 <@rizen> what version are you looking at
18:27 <@rizen> cuz in any recent version there is no specific override for it
18:27 <@rizen> there's the overrides tab
18:27 <@rizen> which will allow you to generically override anything
18:28 <@rizen> but again, that only helps you if you're overriding something for display
18:38 <@rizen> SDuensin: why are you drueling over 7.6
18:39 < SDuensin> It has nice shiny new toys!
18:40 <@rizen> so does that mean that you always drule over every new version?
18:40 < SDuensin> Of course!
18:41  * MrHairgrease drools over wobbly windows
18:41 <@rizen> snapcount: are you in need of a helpdesk app?
18:41  * SDuensin had wobbly windows on one of those tiny Eee laptops.  Sweet!
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18:43 <@rizen> interesting. you guys drool over software features
18:43 <@rizen> while i drool over hot women. =)
18:43  * perlDreamer wipes his chin
18:43 <+perlDreamer> How about women who write software?
18:43 <@rizen> as long as they're hot
18:43 < SDuensin> Well, I *got* women.  :-P
18:44 <@rizen> me too
18:44 <@rizen> that doesn't mean i don't want more
18:44 <@rizen> =)
18:44 <@rizen> my middle name is "greed"
18:44 <+MrHairgrease> rizen: inot software features. I just happen to have a _very_ thin screen
18:44 <+perlDreamer> I thought your middle name was "porn-flavored"
18:44 <@rizen> hehe
18:44 <+MrHairgrease> ah greed
18:45 <+MrHairgrease> I always wondered what that T stood for
18:45 <@rizen> i season all my food with porn flavorin
18:45 <@rizen> g
18:45 <+perlDreamer> T isn't his middle name
18:45 <+perlDreamer> His name is JT P Smith
18:45  * MrHairgrease doesn't care what rizen eats
18:45 <+MrHairgrease> as long as I don't have to watch
18:47 < ckotil> wierd. asset manager works on https, but not on http
18:47 <@rizen> ckotil: that's a switch i installed just for your site
18:48 < ckotil> Im not so sure. asset manager works fine on http on my dev site
18:49 < SDuensin> Damn.  Figures I was in another window when the porn talk started.
18:50 < ckotil> ah, it has to be due to my apache settings. the fancy rewriting. http works on my other domains, just not my primary.
18:51 <+perlDreamer> preaction: this new bug sounds like your Nav slowness from yesterday: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/9096
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18:59 < ckotil> any YUI enabled templates built into the 7.5.32?
19:00 <+perlDreamer> sure
19:00 < ckotil> i just looked for nav templates w/ YUI but didnt see any
19:00 <+perlDreamer> Shop
19:00 <+perlDreamer> EMS
19:00 < ckotil> asset manager.
19:00 <+perlDreamer> Yes
19:00 < ckotil> cool.
19:00 < ckotil> i think someone has a free YUI nav template in the baazar
19:01 < ckotil> webgui app store, heh.
19:01 <+snapcount> rizen: yeah we're looking to put everything in WebGUI
19:01 <+snapcount> including our helpdesk
19:01 <+snapcount> which is currently a standalone program
19:01 < SDuensin> Me too, snapcount.
19:01 < ckotil> We have all of our help desks documentation in webgui
19:02 < ckotil> all of engineerings documentation as well
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19:02 < danny_mk> Good day
19:02 <@rizen> snapcount: the helpdesk is a great app, just know that if you use it, it's experimental. there's no support on it at all.
19:03 <+snapcount> I see
19:03 < ckotil> ohh, a new asset?
19:03 <+snapcount> is it a planned feature for 7.6?
19:03 <+snapcount> or is it planned for a later release
19:03 <@rizen> no, it's not planned to go into any release at this point
19:03 <@rizen> it was built for our site specifically
19:03 <+snapcount> ok so that's the diff between beta and experimental?
19:03 <@rizen> however, there is an RFE out there to get it into some other release
19:04 <@rizen> there's also an RFE to put the bazaar into the core
19:04 <+snapcount> both great tools
19:04 <+snapcount> also more to support and maintain =D
19:04 <+perlDreamer> preaction: I found it.
19:04 <@rizen> they're experimental because they don't live up to the standards necessary to make it into the core
19:04 <+perlDreamer> AjaxI18N is not added to the user's webgui.conf file
19:04 <+perlDreamer> so when it does a POST, it doesn't get back AJAX
19:04 <+perlDreamer> it gets the home page
19:05 <+perlDreamer> which parseJSON does not like in the least
19:05 <+perlDreamer> (kind of like Roast Beast, which is a feast I can't stand in the least)
19:05 <+perlDreamer> Let me see if adding it helps out a big
19:05 <+perlDreamer> bit
19:05 <+snapcount> unless of course your homepage consists entirely of properly formed JSON 
19:05 <+perlDreamer> then I'll post an upgrade script
19:05 < SDuensin> Try Perfectly Normal Beast.  As a sandwich.
19:05 <+perlDreamer> Sliced thin, with a bit of au jus?
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19:07 < AMH_henry> rizen: i'm merging changes back to head.. should updates for tables etc. go into upgrade_7.6.3-7.6.4.pl?
19:07 <@rizen> yes please
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19:13 < danny_mk> alright, looking at the Google: doGoogleSearch WS template I see that there are variables set for the results. If a webservice returns a structure such as [ { one => "one", two => "two" }] what should the tmpl_var values within the template be?
19:13 < danny_mk> I thought they would be <tmpl_var one> <tmpl_var two>
19:14 < danny_mk> and these should be within the    <tmpl_loop results> loop
19:14 <+perlDreamer> danny_mk: Have you read the friendly, online template docs?
19:14 < danny_mk> I have
19:14 < danny_mk> I am pretty familiar with HTML::Template
19:15 < danny_mk> however the results of WSClient are unclear
19:16 <+perlDreamer> hm
19:16 <+perlDreamer> It says that you get back a loop called results
19:16 <+perlDreamer> results are paginated
19:17 < danny_mk> alright, let me play around with it a bit.  I will let you know how it works out.  Boss calling for a meeting ...brb
19:17 <+perlDreamer> you've checked the error variables to make sure that there were no fetching or decoding problems?
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19:27 <+perlDreamer> nice test, AMH_henry!
19:27 < BartJol> Hi I've got a problem in 7.3.22 with an asset that won't be edited
19:28 < BartJol> MrHairgrease also doesn't get it
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19:28 < BartJol> it is not locked
19:28 < BartJol> in the db the settings for editing are set to admin
19:28 < BartJol> the ownerId to
19:29 < BartJol> too
19:29 < BartJol> and I'm admin
19:29 <+perlDreamer> what happens when you try to edit it?
19:29 <+perlDreamer> and what kind of asset is it?
19:29 < BartJol> it's a page layout and it says that I have not sufficient rights
19:29 < BartJol> privileges
19:30 <+perlDreamer> webgui.log messages?
19:30 < BartJol> nope
19:32 <+perlDreamer> You're sure that it is not locked?
19:32 < BartJol> probably something happened with a group that was set to edting rights that hs been deleted
19:32 < BartJol> quite sure
19:33 < BartJol> well, I just did a commit, maybe that got stuck
19:33 <+perlDreamer> that could be
19:33 <+perlDreamer> although it would give you a different message
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19:33 < BartJol> can I check in the db whether it is locked?
19:33 <+perlDreamer> yes
19:34 < BartJol> status is approved
19:34 <+perlDreamer> what is in the isLockedBy column?
19:35 < BartJol> which table?
19:35 < BartJol> I'm looking in assetData
19:35 <+perlDreamer> asset table
19:36 < BartJol> it says NULL
19:36 <+perlDreamer> NULL is good
19:37 < BartJol> stateChanged seems a bit old
19:37 < CIA-6> WebGUI: amhhenry * r8358 /WebGUI/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Merged versionTagMode support from amh development branch. Upgrade scripts not updated yet
19:37 < CIA-6> WebGUI: amhhenry * r8359 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.6.3-7.6.4.pl: Updated upgrade script for versionTagMode support
19:37 <+perlDreamer> brb
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19:44 <+perlDreamer> obviously, it is something MrHairgrease did, BartJol, so follow up with him
19:44  * MrHairgrease didn't do it
19:45 < BartJol> well, he didn't touch it before it was broken
19:45 <+perlDreamer> That's bad.  He broke it and doesn't even know about it.
19:45 < BartJol> so I can support him for his cliam for not guilty
19:46 < BartJol> noe perlDreamer, that's me
19:46 < BartJol> I do such stuff
19:46 < BartJol> but this time, even that wasn't the case
19:46  * perlDreamer too
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19:47 <+MrHairgrease> crapass wireless....
19:47 < BartJol> ah, like in that hotel/conference centre
19:49 < BartJol> in the groups table, some fields are not null, but empty
19:50 <+perlDreamer> that's usually okay
19:52 < BartJol> so, explain the problem, without having a look at the db or error logs....
19:52 <+perlDreamer> huh?
19:52 < BartJol> sorry, i'm getting a bit fed up with it all
19:53 <+perlDreamer> You have a page layout that won't let you edit it
19:53 <+perlDreamer> You are Admin, so this is offensive
19:53 < BartJol> indeed
19:53 < BartJol> aaffirmative
19:53 <+perlDreamer> can you paste the db entries from the assetData and asset table for this asset?
19:53 < BartJol> sure
19:54 <+perlDreamer> preaction: adding the AjaxI18N handler cleaned up errors in the console, but didn't help with the DataTable
19:55 < BartJol> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m751fb917
19:56 <+perlDreamer> BartJol, please sort that by revisionDate
19:57 < BartJol> oh, nou I've thrown away the asset table data
19:58 < BartJol> and it's back
19:59 <+perlDreamer> like, it's back and working?
19:59 < BartJol> no
20:06 < BartJol> it is still broken
20:08 < BartJol> but I have to go and called the customer that I had only 5 minutes left, so he kept talking to me on the phone for 10...
20:08 < BartJol> instead of letting me work
20:08 < BartJol> starnge fellows
20:10 < BartJol> but sorry I really have to go
20:10 <+perlDreamer> ok
20:10 < BartJol> so unless you really feel like it, stop looking at it
20:10 < BartJol> maybe I'll be back tonight
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20:13 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8360 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm: do not make a user object unless it is needed
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20:24 <@perlmonkey2> is there a perltidy ruleset we're supposed to use?
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20:28 <+crythias> rizen: I'm at 7.5.21
20:28 <+crythias> I have an asset shortcut on a different page layout
20:29 <+crythias> I click th asset-container (edit) and click |Overrides|
20:29 <+crythias> I click (edit) on Hide from navigation
20:30 <+crythias> then "Hide from Navigation? (*) Yes ( ) No and [save]
20:31 <+crythias> not the asset-container, but the shortcut container of the asset.
20:32 <+crythias> the ... nm.. I had to hide the shortcut from navigation
20:34 <+crythias> In any case, I can't see how that "override" does anything visible.
20:35 <@preaction> it changes how the asset inside the shortcut works
20:35 <@preaction> so if you override Title for example, that'll be visible
20:35 <+crythias> Yes, yes, but the override for navigation does ntohing
20:35 <+crythias> nothing
20:36 <@preaction> but it was the Shortcut itself that showed up in the navigation
20:36 <+crythias> I'm not disagreeing with that, preaction.
20:36 <@preaction> that does seem weird
20:37 <@preaction> the overrides aren't necessarily guaranteed to work. you can override the URL and that'll probably break the thing
20:37 <+crythias> hrm.
20:38 <+crythias> hey.. I know I can do this myself... is there any other reason the (edit)(cut)(copy) aren't/can't be in the clickndrag bar of an asset?
20:39 <@preaction> i can't think of one
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20:40 < danny_mk> OK, back
20:40 < danny_mk> perlmonkey2:  were you trying to answer my question about the webservice?
20:41 <+crythias> OK, I have a hidden asset (a .xml file)  that I'd like to edit without remembering the URL or going through Assets or unclicking [x] hiddenasset.xml 
20:42 <+crythias> I wonder ... is it possible to have hidden assets show up like redirects show up?
20:43 <+crythias> that is, no "content" but the (edit)(cut)(copy) line?
20:45 <@preaction> crythias, not on the page, no, but that might be a nice feature
20:46 <@preaction> something like the toolbar, the title, and then (hidden). perhaps with a button to hide/unhide?
20:46 <+crythias> I was looking at Default Page template
20:46 <+crythias> preaction: yes. 
20:46 <+crythias> Like I said, I don't mind not seeing the content if it's "hidden"
20:46 <+crythias> especially since my goal is to click edit on it anyway.
20:47 <@preaction> post the RFE please, i'll see how my tomorrow night looks (feature freeze is in a day or two)
20:48 <+crythias> it's already closed
20:48 <+crythias> 442
20:49 <+crythias> http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/hidden-assets-should-be-seen-in-admin-view
20:49 <@preaction> closed as what?
20:49 <+crythias> denied by rizen
20:49 <@preaction> damn
20:50 <+crythias> However, if hidden assets are treated the same way as redirects, I would place that as less of an objection than full content.
20:51 <@preaction> yeah, it's possible he was thinking "The entire asset's view() method should show up in admin mode", which would be as he said: confusing
20:51 <@preaction> might want to reply to the RFE and mention that
20:52 <@preaction> same way as redirects and templates sounds to me like a good idea. plus that button to hide/unhide. i hate having to edit the page layout in order to check the Hide Asset box
20:52 <@preaction> it's confusing to me since i can't see what asset i'm hiding, i only see its title
20:53 <+crythias> well, I'm not going for hide/unhide in my RFE. At least, not right now. 
20:54 <+crythias> preaction: if I had a BIG RFE, I'd have thumbnails and drag-n-drop ordering in the Display screen.
20:54 <+crythias> and cut/copy/edit
20:58 < CIA-6> WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r8361 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.6.3-7.6.4.pl: Fixed survey migration
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21:09 <+crythias> "WebGUI? What's that?" "You're soaking in it."
21:38 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2, there's one in SVN
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21:57 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2: docs/perltidyrc
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22:06 < CIA-6> WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r8362 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/ (Survey/SurveyJSON.pm Survey/ResponseJSON.pm Survey.pm): Removed some debug statements and perltidied the code
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22:42 < bunniefoofoo> I just upgraded to 7.5.32 from 7.4.40 and the calendar list view is broken: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m14bb94fc
22:42 <@preaction> bunniefoofoo, it can't find your template for some reason
22:43 <@preaction> or rather, you don't have a tempate in that field
22:43 <@preaction> if you open the edit screen of the Calendar and just click "Save" right away, that should fix the problem
22:43 < bunniefoofoo> ok, i'll go deeper, thanks
22:43 <@preaction> but still post a bug, that field should be auto-filled
22:47 <+perlDreamer> preaction: re AssetManager i18n.  After instanciating the i18n object, do I need to do anything to it?
22:47 <@preaction> nope, it should call load() all by its self
22:47 <@preaction> is it?
22:47 <@preaction> that' WebGUI.i18n.load of course
22:50 <+perlDreamer> yeah
22:54 <+perlDreamer> I've even single stepped into the YUI JS to trace the loading, but it's really hard to do that since it's all newline eliminated
22:54 <+perlDreamer> All I know at this point is that the i18n onpreload callback isn't being called
22:54 <+perlDreamer> can I just init the thing directly instead?
22:55 <@preaction> no, because you won't have the i18n labels. you have to wait
22:55 <@preaction> let me see the code again?
22:56 <+perlDreamer> pastification on the way
22:57 <+perlDreamer> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m2952562a
22:59 <@preaction> ok, one sec
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23:08 <@preaction> perlDreamer, are you also loading the i18n.js in the asset manager?
23:09 <@preaction> i'm testing your code and i see the database, but it doesn't load correctly cuz there's an error
23:12 <+perlDreamer> Yup, loading yui-webgui/build/i18n/i18n.js
23:12 <+perlDreamer> and json-min
23:13 <+perlDreamer> I could commit the change to the Content handler since it's inocuous
23:13 <+perlDreamer> without the corresponing JS changes
23:15 <@preaction> so you see nothing then? no column headings? no "Loading..."?
23:15 <@preaction> does the Console tab show a 
23:15 <@preaction> POST request?
23:15 <+perlDreamer> Only Loading....
23:15 <+perlDreamer> Post request is okay, and has the right key
23:16 <@preaction> okay, so the initDataTable is being called
23:16 <@preaction> so you're seeing what I saw
23:16 <@preaction> are you sure there's no errors showing up?
23:16 <@preaction> i saw an error, your .get call only says "edit", when it needs "Asset","edit"
23:16 <@preaction> so it tries to get the namespace "edit" and fails, and throws an error
23:18 <+perlDreamer> that's weird
23:26 <@preaction> so yes, if you change line 66 to have this instead: WebGUI.AssetManager.i18n.get('Asset','edit') 
23:26 <@preaction> it should work
23:29 <+perlDreamer> w00t!
23:29 < SDuensin> Random annoying question:   Any sign of PayPal in 7.6.x yet?
23:29 <+perlDreamer> No
23:30 < SDuensin> Random annoying thanks!
23:30 <@preaction> SDuensin, not so far. someone had promised to do so, but they've since disappeared
23:30 <+perlDreamer> You haven't written it yet ;)
23:30 <@preaction> i haven't disappeared though
23:31 < SDuensin> I'm working on a contract at the moment that wants it, so you never know.  :-)
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23:47 <@preaction> so the safety routines of WebGUI::Session::Stow->get are apparently extremely slow
23:49 <+perlDreamer> safety routines?
23:49 < SDuensin> Ok, back after the commute from hell.  Later all.
23:49 <@Haarg> it also doesn't match the pod
23:49 <+perlDreamer> preaction, oh yeah.  How about using Clone?
23:50 <@Haarg> also seems odd that it doesn't work with cache
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23:50 <+perlDreamer> Stow is basically a cache, I guess.
23:50 <@Haarg> aren't there things that use stow for non-cache things?
23:50 <@preaction> there shouldn't be
23:50 <@preaction> stow is a caching mechanism, nothing else
23:51 <@preaction> it is not a way to hack global variables or share variables
23:51 <+perlDreamer> Stow has always had that line in there
23:51 <@Haarg> dataform used to do that
23:51  * perlDreamer goes to shower, will be back in 20
23:51 <@preaction> yeah, and i believe JT was pissed about it
23:52 <@Haarg> gone now, but i was thinking other areas might have done that as well
23:52 <@Haarg> pod says you get references you can modify though
23:52 <@preaction> they shouldn't, as pd said that line's been there in forever
23:53 <@preaction> heh, nice
23:53 <@preaction> well shit
23:53 <@Haarg> Clone or Storable::dclone would be a better approach though if we want safe references
23:53 <@preaction> i'm thinking of adding an options hashref and one of the options being "nocopy" or "copy => 0"
23:53 <@preaction> Clone says it's faster, i'm going to find out how much faster
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23:54 <@Haarg> and really, if we want safe references it should do a clone on set as well
23:54 <@preaction> i'm thinking that if the routine isn't going to change the reference, we don't need to make a copy
23:54 <@Haarg> Clone says dclone is faster
23:54 <@preaction> so we can save ourselves a bit there
23:55 <@preaction> "For a slower, but more flexible solution see Storable's dclone()."
23:55 <@Haarg> but if you store a ref then modify it afterward
23:55 <@Haarg> bleh
23:55  * Haarg no read good
23:55 <@preaction> yeah, i see your argument for set, and that i can see not needing an option
23:56 <@preaction> but would you agree that an option to not clone on get would be a good idea?
23:56 <@preaction> i mean, the datastructure i'm talking about is the group stow, which can grow to a huge hash by the time a single request is completed
23:57 <@preaction> i was also thinking of using Readonly::XS and just making everyone else do copying if they need it
23:59 <@preaction> hm... maybe not as cool
23:59 <@Haarg> Readonly::XS (vs Readonly) wouldn't really get you much for speed in this case
23:59 <@Haarg> since it is a data structure
--- Day changed Fri Nov 14 2008
00:00 <@preaction> it's a reference though... oh. you can't modify the reference, but you can modify the data structure being referenced
00:00 <@Haarg> Readonly::XS only works for scalars
00:01 <@Haarg> read only hashes and arrays are still handled via tie
00:01 <@preaction> right, a reference is a scalar. so you can't change what structure the reference is pointing to, but you can still change the underlying structure
00:02 <@Haarg> i'm not really certain of the best solution
00:03 <@Haarg> having an option flag seems like it could be ok
00:03 <@preaction> i'm thinking Clone
00:03 <@Haarg> how fast is clone?
00:03 <@preaction> i'm going to find out
00:04 <@perlmonkey2> On the wiki, what is the expected behavior as apposed to this bug: http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/tinymce-overview 
00:05 <@perlmonkey2> Should this be a case where there are three divs, one for each button, and the non-selected two are hidden?
00:05 <@Haarg> yeah
00:05 <@perlmonkey2> okay, should be a simple fix :)
00:05 <@Haarg> the html in that page is malformed
00:05 <@perlmonkey2> oh noes!
00:05 <@Haarg> in the wiki page that is
00:05 <@Haarg> we don't have a simple solution for that
00:05 <@perlmonkey2> hmm, I bet something I did broke it
00:05 <@perlmonkey2> oh
00:05 <@perlmonkey2> then I'll skip that one.
00:06 <@Haarg> heh
00:06 <@Haarg> or not
00:06 <@Haarg> sorry, i was assuming it was a problem i had seen before
00:06 <@Haarg> let me look at it quick
00:06 <@perlmonkey2> okay
00:07 < danny_mk> Hmmm.... I have a bit of a problem here deciding weather I should report an issue as a bug or an RFE
00:08 <@preaction> danny_mk, what's the issue?
00:09 < danny_mk> While using the webservice objec I found out that if the webservice returns a structure like [ {one=>"first value", two=>"Second value},{three=>"Third...",fourth=>"fourth..."}]
00:09 <@preaction> you can report a bug but it won't get fixed
00:09 <@preaction> the WSClient is a pile of junk that simply does not work
00:10 <@preaction> last i heard it was getting removed
00:10 <@perlmonkey2> maybe you should rewrite it?
00:10 < danny_mk> it gets placed in the results:  http://webgui.pastebin.com/m6bd644d9
00:10 <@perlmonkey2> Use some R&D time and make it super-sexy
00:10 < danny_mk> I had to, my boss was on my shit about getting this working
00:10 <@preaction> yeah, there's going to be a replacement, but it won't be SOAP, it'll just be XML
00:11 < danny_mk> Did you see the pastebin stuff?
00:11 <@preaction> also, there are far more pressing things I want to do for my own R&D
00:11 <@preaction> looks like a UTF-8 mishap
00:11 <@perlmonkey2> the ability to use web services seems kind of important though
00:11 <@preaction> what are "web services" though?
00:11 <@perlmonkey2> yeah, I don't think that has anything to do with the asset.
00:12 <@perlmonkey2> I thought there were specs?
00:12 <@perlmonkey2> soap and xmlrpc or something?
00:12 <@preaction> there are, dozens of different protocols
00:12 <@preaction> DAV is one, for example
00:12 <@preaction> SOAP
00:12 <@preaction> or just straight-up XML
00:12 <@preaction> XMLRPC is like SOAP
00:13 <@perlmonkey2> except makes a crapload more sense
00:13 <@preaction> with SOAP you need a WSDL file to actually figure out how to use the service
00:13 <@perlmonkey2> soap is so tedious it has had me pondering self eyeball mutiliation before
00:13 <@preaction> SOAP is a way to send messages really. a protocol, not an interface
00:14 <@preaction> so if the SOAP server returns a scalar, what do you do? how about an array? an array of hashes? a hash of arrays? an array of arrays of hashes of arrays?
00:14 <@perlmonkey2> but what do users want and need?
00:14 <@preaction> some of these things can't be represented by HTML::Template
00:14 <@perlmonkey2> preaction: well I thought it was up to the user to make sure their template could consume the data?
00:15 <@preaction> i argue that if users want/need, they'll put their money where their mouth is
00:15 <@preaction> but many SOAP interfaces aren't controlled by the user
00:15 <@Haarg> but the data can't even be passed to html::template sometimes
00:15 <@perlmonkey2> I like the way you thing
00:15 <@perlmonkey2> think
00:15 <@preaction> and the WSClient can't even handle certain data, like one simple scalar
00:15 <@Haarg> i'm going to spend some r&d time on wsclient
00:15 <@Haarg> removing it from webgui, that is
00:15 <@perlmonkey2> heh
00:16 < danny_mk> my template can consume the data
00:16 <@preaction> it could use a rewrite and then could work, but i'm for removing it and letting it stew until it's ready to be added again
00:17 <@perlmonkey2> danny_mk: it looks like you have an encoding issue.
00:17 < danny_mk> however it can't figure out an anonymous array within an array for tmpl_loop, what would be the loop name if there is no name for the internal array?
00:17 < danny_mk> that is a minor problem right now
00:17 < danny_mk> the bigger issue is the array within the array
00:17 <@preaction> danny_mk, that's a limitation of the WSClient. you'll have to code for it
00:18 <@preaction> the only real solution to the problem is, i think, a way to parse the WSDL and then map the template vars using the data in the WSDL
00:18 <@perlmonkey2> your example was two hashes in an array?
00:18 < danny_mk> yes
00:18 < danny_mk> preaction: that is what I did 
00:19 <@preaction> danny_mk, no, because the WSClient does not do that
00:19 <@preaction> im talking an interface where you picked a certain piece of the data structure and assigned it a variable
00:19 < danny_mk> I did it in WebGUI::Asset::Template::HTMLTemplate
00:21 < danny_mk> Which is not the way to go because it has nothing to do with the results variable anyway
00:21 < danny_mk> however, that is the way I had to deal with it for now.
00:25 < danny_mk> More than likely I will have to deal with it in:  $template->prepare($self->getMetaDataAsTemplateVariables);  which is in WSClient.pm
00:40 <+perlDreamer> preaction: Do you know if it's possible to i18n the paginator results?
00:40 <@preaction> i believe you can change the labels in the yahoo paginator widget, yes
00:40 <+perlDreamer> I'll check the docs
00:41 <+perlDreamer> I should be able to handle that much
00:41 <+perlDreamer> I hope... ;)
00:41 <@preaction> http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/paginator/
00:42 <@preaction> ... i'm not optimistic... this new Paginator seems wonky
00:43 <+perlDreamer> I'm willing to close the bug with just Edit and More i18n'ed
00:43 <+perlDreamer> but it's BartJol, so I'd like to dig just a bit deeper
00:46 <@preaction> http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/examples/paginator/pag_configuration.html <- looks like there are lastPageLinkLabel, previousPageLinkLabel, nextPageLinkLabel etc... configuration options for the Paginator class
00:47 <@preaction> so uh.. why would using Clone make my page unrenderable?
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00:47 <@preaction> ... so apparently we can't use Clone or Storable::dclone
00:48 <+perlDreamer> I just used Clone a little while ago...
00:48 <+perlDreamer> In the update method of Asset.pm
00:48 <+perlDreamer> worked fine
00:49 <+perlDreamer> use Clone qw(clone);
00:49 <+perlDreamer> https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/revision/?rev=8324
00:50 <@preaction> i'm using it in Stow, dclone seems to choke on CODE refs, so i'm wondering if thats the case with clone
00:51 <@preaction> we should add Clone to testEnvironment in case one of the other reqs that use it stop using it
00:52 <+perlDreamer> Just as long as people understand that we're not adding new prerequisites, and just taking advantage of an existing one.
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01:03 < CIA-6> WebGUI: patspam * r8363 /WebGUI/ (t/Asset/Wobject/Survey.t lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey.pm): 
01:03 < CIA-6> WebGUI: Added skeleton Survey2 test file.
01:03 < CIA-6> WebGUI: Changed debug logging from ERROR level to DEBUG
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01:09 <@preaction> is it correct to assume that any of the WebGUI::Session::* modules should not use Stow
01:10 <@preaction> since they exist for the entire duration of the request, you can just $self->{whatever} on them
01:11 <+perlDreamer> No, they should encapsulate
01:12 <+perlDreamer> The more of that direct object hash stuff we do, the worse we'll be off if we switch to C::IO, or even Perl6
01:13 <@preaction> okay, we're only talking milliseconds here anyway
01:13 <@preaction> it's the 5.5 SECONDS for the other 400 calls to stow that are my problem
01:13 <+perlDreamer> Is Clone really that slow?
01:13 <@preaction> 200 calls take 5ms, 400 other calls take 5.5s
01:13 <@preaction> no, this is the old code
01:13 <@preaction> Clone doesn't work, period
01:13 <@preaction> dclone yells about CODE refs
01:14 <@preaction> so i assume that's the same problem Clone is having
01:14 <+perlDreamer> who is storing sub refs in Stow?
01:14 <@preaction> i don't know
01:15 <@preaction> doesn't matter though, we allowed it so we have to keep allowing it
01:15 <@preaction> the problem is the huge isInGroup data structure
01:16 <@preaction> ... what if there were a way to get a part of a data structure instead of the whole thing?
01:16 <@preaction> too complicated. imma add a flag to turn off the cloning
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01:16 <@Haarg> when was the cloning added?
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01:20 <@preaction> Haarg, revision 7152
01:20 <@preaction> 2008-08-02
01:20 <@preaction> so, in this dev cycle it seems
01:21 <+perlDreamer> that might have been part of the fix for the group method that I talked about at the WUC
01:21 <@preaction> it is a fix, i'm not denying that
01:21 <+perlDreamer> just that it's dog slow
01:21 <@preaction> yeah
01:22 <@preaction> and there's no way to fix it at the source
01:22 <+perlDreamer> "source"?
01:23 <+perlDreamer> I'll see if I can't find where the code refs are coming frow
01:24 <@preaction> but we can't stop them, it would break compatibility
01:24 <@preaction> the source being stow::get
01:25 <@Haarg> there's $Storable::Deparse
01:26 <@Haarg> but that would probably be worse than disallowing code refs
01:29 <+perlDreamer> I'm not finding where wG stores code refs
01:30 <@preaction> maybe it stores objects?
01:30 <@Haarg> do you have an example of it failing?
01:30 <+perlDreamer> It stows VersionTag objects
01:30 <+perlDreamer> although I don't see why
01:30 <+perlDreamer> that call never seems to be used anywhere
01:31 <@preaction> 2008/11/13 16:47:08 - ERROR - alumni.conf - WebGUI::Macro::process[142] - Can't store
01:31 <@preaction>  CODE items at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Session/Stow.pm line 116.
01:31 <@Haarg> can't you dump a Carp::longmess when that happens?
01:31 <@preaction> perlDreamer, getWorking
01:32 <@preaction> isnt there a way in Log4Perl to get a traceback on certain levels?
01:33 <@preaction> that sounds like a nice feature
01:33 <@Haarg> yes there is, but i never bothered to figure out how
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01:34 <+perlDreamer> No stows used in Macro.pm
01:34 <+perlDreamer> 1 in Macro/AdSpace
01:34 <+perlDreamer> and it gets a boolean
01:35 <+perlDreamer> maybe it's in custom code?
01:36 <@preaction> uh.. it's in WebGUI::AssetVersioning getCurrentRevisionDate
01:36 <@preaction> wtf
01:37 <@preaction> line 226 though
01:37 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8364 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): begin to i18n the AssetManager. Cannot be backported to 7.5 due to reliance on i18n.js
01:38  * perlDreamer suspects evilness
01:38 <+perlDreamer> that should be a data structure
01:38 <@preaction> uh... no, seriously how is that working
01:38 <@preaction> it is always treated as a hashref, but i don't see it getting initialized to anything
01:39 <+perlDreamer> it will autovivify
01:39 <@preaction> but it's undef
01:39 <@preaction> you can't do anything to undef
01:40 <@Haarg> you can in that context
01:41 <@Haarg> perl -e'use strict; my $f; $f->{s} = "r"; print ($f->{s}, "\n");'
01:42 <@preaction> good lord...
01:42 <@Haarg> can you Data::Dumper whatever it is trying to clone that is failing?
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01:43 <@preaction> hang on, i seem to have had a mishap with my stupidity
01:43 <@Haarg> possibly with $Data::Dumper::Deparse=1
01:45 <+perlDreamer> preaction: happens to me all the time
01:46 <+perlDreamer> for example, Session/Stow.pm, line 214 is dead code
01:46 <+perlDreamer> it will never get reached
01:46 <+perlDreamer> uh, apparently I'm dyslexic, too.  It's line 124
01:48 <@Haarg> with this i'd almost prefer to change the places that use stow to not modify the ref unless they intend to
01:51 <@preaction> okay, so the problem is the groupObj structure
01:51 <@preaction> it stores a reference to every group created during the course of the session
01:52 <+perlDreamer> why is that a code ref?
01:52 <@preaction> it includes the session object
01:53 <@preaction> it's a recursive data structure...
01:53 <+perlDreamer> ah
01:55 <@preaction> i haven't found a subref yet though
01:55 <@Haarg> session includes the apache request
01:56 <@Haarg> there's likely one in there somewhere
01:56 <+perlDreamer> yup
01:56 <+perlDreamer> and that's an easy, fix too.
01:56 <+perlDreamer> Null the session object in the group where it is stored
01:56 <@preaction> how?
01:56 <+perlDreamer> and add it back in when fetched
01:57 <@preaction> ok, i'll try it
01:57 <@Haarg> that's an api break though
01:57 <+perlDreamer> Yes, and it will also break in VersionTag, since it stores a copy of itself there, too.
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01:58 <@preaction> how is it an API break?
01:58 <@Haarg> because you can't just stuff an object in there
01:58 <@preaction> ah
01:58 <@preaction> right
01:58 <+perlDreamer> we've broken API for bug fixes before
01:59 <@preaction> we can't here
02:00 <+perlDreamer> What about the other option?  Using Clone everywhere else?
02:00 <@preaction> i like the flag to prevent cloning myself
02:00 <@Haarg> what is the issue the cloning was attempting to fix?
02:01 <+perlDreamer> Being able to manipulate the stow directly/accidently
02:01 <@Haarg> technically a flag like you mention is an api break as well
02:01 <@Haarg> since the pod says you get a direct ref
02:01 <@preaction> the pod is wrong
02:01 <+perlDreamer> The POD is wrong, and has been for 100 revs
02:01 <@Haarg> 100 revs isn't very long
02:01 <@preaction> 600+
02:01 <@preaction> it was rev 7415 that cloning was added
02:01 <@Haarg> that was an api change though, it just wasn't noted as one
02:02 <@preaction> make that 1200 revs
02:02 <@preaction> it was added 3 months ago
02:02 <+perlDreamer> we've been busy
02:02 <@Haarg> i get the preventing of accidents thing
02:02 <@preaction> (7152-8361)
02:02 <@Haarg> but was there an actual bug it was fixing?
02:02 <+perlDreamer> Yes.
02:03 <@preaction> yes, i had added something that assumed i was getting a safe copy
02:03 <@preaction> or something like that
02:03 <+perlDreamer> getGroupsIn
02:03 <+perlDreamer> and that's why we need to have a safe API.  Even experienced devs fall into that trap
02:03 <@preaction> yeah, that was returning the refs and perpetuating the problem
02:04 <+perlDreamer> it actually worked on both ends.  setting and getting
02:05 <@preaction> i'd agree with you, Haarg, if the bugs that non-safe references cause weren't so god-damned hard to track down
02:06 <@preaction> so i say give them safe refs unless they specifically ask for the actual ref
02:06 <@Haarg> what about objects?
02:06 <@preaction> $obj->clone perhaps?
02:07 <@preaction> or do what we're doing now, unsafely return them
02:07 <@Haarg> i think unsafe is about the only choice
02:07 <+perlDreamer> and what about circular data structures?
02:07 <+perlDreamer> nevermind
02:08 <@Haarg> does Clone deal with them?
02:08 <+perlDreamer> I'd guess so, it's probably just the apache request like you mentioned that's the problem
02:08 <+perlDreamer> but we wouldn't know without more checking
02:09 <@Haarg> yeah, and you can't just check if it's an object, else clone
02:09 <@Haarg> because what about data structures with objects in them
02:10 <@preaction> i'll update the pod to be more accurate, add in the "WARNING: This will ATTEMPT to make a safe copy, but cannot safely copy Objects alone or inside of other structures"
02:13 <@preaction> ... what if we added Storable hooks to WebGUI::Session?
02:14 <@preaction> how would we get the Apache2::Request object back in...
02:14 <@Haarg> i don't hate the idea
02:14 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8365 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.5.33 release
02:16 <@preaction> but?
02:16 <@Haarg> it's not simple to do
02:17 <+perlDreamer> and Storable is SLOW
02:19 <@preaction> it's faster than my $copy = [ @{ $orig } ]
02:20 <@preaction> at least, it has to be...
02:21 <+perlDreamer> what if we only cloned for simple array/hash refs?
02:22 <@Haarg> how do you define simple?
02:22 <@preaction> you can't define simple. you'd have to look at it and then you'd be wasting time
02:24 <@Haarg> you know what i do hate?  democleanup.pl  apparently it doesn't do a very good job of cleaning up
02:24 <@preaction> we had a problem last night, democleanup.pl took down the box
02:24 <@preaction> we had to kill it
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02:49 < CIA-6> WebGUI: jt * r8366 /releases/WebGUI_7.5.33-stable: Release 7.5.33-stable
02:49 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8367 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (4 files in 4 dirs): preparing for 7.5.34 dev
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03:27 < metanil> what is 'value' in CheckList ('option' is enough, isn't it?), its derived from Form::Control??
03:27 <@preaction> the value is the currently selected checkboxes
03:28 < metanil> ooo.. the keys of the options??
03:28 <@preaction> yes
03:28 < metanil> sweet
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06:15 < patspam> is the Nav system flexible enough to allow me to create Prev/Next buttons for navigating between nested pages (depth first search)?
06:15 < patspam> or do i need to roll my own using AssetLineage?
06:16 <@preaction> a macro might be better
06:16 <@preaction> there has to be a getNextSibling and getPreviousSibling method
06:16 <@preaction> if not, it seems trivial to make
06:17 < patspam> ok.. i need DFS though, was hoping i wouldn't have to manually walk the tree too much
06:18 < patspam> but i guess with getLineageIterator the performance hit might not be too bad
06:19 <@preaction> i think the default order by of getLineage is depth-first
06:20 <@preaction> if you order by lineage, it's depth-first
06:20 <@preaction> so you could getLineage(...{ limit => 1})
06:20 <@preaction> also, i've been doing benchmarking on getLineage, and it's surprisingly fast
06:22 < patspam> excellent
06:23 < patspam> but I still have to walk the tree.. for example if my start node is some leaf node, the "next" node might be the parent's sibling, or the parent's parent's sibling, etc..
06:23 <@preaction> ah
06:23 <@preaction> then yes
06:23 < patspam> unless i generate the full tree from the root and then find my start node in the tree..
06:23 < patspam> but that sounds worse
06:24 <@preaction> wouldn't be too bad if you just did it like: SELECT lineage FROM asset
06:25 <@preaction> or you could hack it together using lineage as a string
06:26 <@preaction> there is WebGUI::Asset->newByLineage, if you can just find the right lineage
06:26 < patspam> ok... sounds like i should go read up on how the lineage string is contructed
06:27 <@preaction> you have the developer's guide?
06:28 < patspam> the source code?
06:32 <@preaction> that will work, but the dev guide has an excellent chapter on lineage
06:33 < patspam> ah damn
06:33 <@preaction> i can save you some trouble, run the query SELECT lineage FROM asset <- it should be readily apparent
06:36 < patspam> ahhhhhhh
06:36 < patspam> nice
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11:33 < CIA-6> WebGUI: amhhenry * r8368 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Version tag mode: updated help text, changelog and credits.
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14:40 < SquOnk> Hi everyone
15:40 < SquOnk> Would it be terrible to replace default.ttf (which is currently non-free at all) with another default.ttf which is free?
15:48 < SquOnk> Is there any reason why extras/contextMenu is still there, yet empty?
15:48 < SquOnk> (I mean, in WebGUI_7.5)
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16:19 < CIA-6> WebGUI: ernesto * r8369 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/www/extras/contextMenu: Remove empty extras/contextMenu directory.
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16:30 < SDuensin> Greetings.
16:30 < SquOnk> SDuensin: Hi there
16:31  * SDuensin is alarmingly low on coffee
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16:37 < rjacobsen> good morning all
16:38 < SquOnk> rjacobsen: Good morning
16:38 < rjacobsen> i was wondering if there is a help macro - I have looked under the list of available macros and i dont see it
16:38 <@perlmonkey2> hola SDuensin
16:40 <@perlmonkey2> rjacobsen: what would this help macro do?
16:41 < rjacobsen> well... just give a user with limited priviledges the ability to click a "help" button and it would open the help topic I plug into the macro
16:42 <@bopbop> couldn't you just do that with a snippet and an asset proxy?
16:42 < rjacobsen> probably have to make my own macro...
16:42 < rjacobsen> ya
16:42 < rjacobsen> just answered my own question lol
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16:52 < CIA-6> WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r8370 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/ (Survey/SurveyJSON.pm Survey/ResponseJSON.pm Survey.pm): Used WG perltidyrc to clean up files
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16:58 < SquOnk> LDAP over SSL stopped working in 7.5.32
16:59 < SquOnk> Net::LDAP->new($uri->host, (port=>$uri->port)))
16:59 < SquOnk> If one uses port => ... then handling SSL has to be done manually too
16:59 < SquOnk> But if one uses just an URI (the proper one) everything works out of the box
17:00 < SquOnk> ldaps://whatever:636 and ldaps://whatever do work
17:00  * SquOnk fixes that
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17:43 < rjacobsen> can anyone tell me where i can find the "controls" asset that is used in "<tmpl_var controls>" please?
17:44 <@rizen> it is generated from the getToolbar() method in Asset.pm
17:46 < rjacobsen> so there is no asset per say that i can put ^GroupText(Admins, ); around to only show the controls if admins is logged in globally?
17:47 < rjacobsen> ...without having to change <tml_var controls> to ^GroupText(Admins, <tmpl_var controls>): on every single template...
17:48 <@rizen> if you're even trying to do that then you're probably setting up your site inappropriately
17:48 <@rizen> what is the actual problem you're trying to solve?
17:50 < rjacobsen> i want to be able to let people add a forum to a message board.... but in order to do such, they have to turn admin on, which opens a whole new can of worms where they can edit, copy, and even delete stuff..... where as if i can just hide the controls, they can turn admin on all day long and not see the controls
17:50 < rjacobsen> but still be able to add a forum
17:50 <@rizen> why do you need to let them turn admin mode on?
17:51 <@rizen> they can add a forum without going into admin mode
17:51 <@rizen> provided you give the appropriate privs
17:51 < rjacobsen> how else will they have the ability to add a forum?
17:51 < rjacobsen> because i have tried everything (that I know)
17:51 <@rizen> I assume that you have a Message Board asset that they will be adding a forum to?
17:51 < rjacobsen> yes
17:52 <@rizen> ok, so make that asset editable by a particular group (i'll call that Group X)
17:52 < rjacobsen> right
17:52 <@rizen> then edit the template of that message board
17:52 < rjacobsen> i do that
17:52 < rjacobsen> but add a forum only shows up if they turn admin on
17:52 <@rizen> adding ^GroupText(); macro around the add forum
17:52 <@rizen> link
17:53 <@rizen> and get rid of the <tmpl_if session.var.adminOn> wrapper around that link
17:53 <@rizen> then the link will only show up to the people that have privileges to add a forum
17:53 <@rizen> and not when they're in admin mode
17:53 < rjacobsen> kk ill try that 
17:56 < rjacobsen> ahhhhhh...... i totally missed the session.var.adminon.......... 
17:56 < rjacobsen> ty rizen
17:57 <@rizen> you're welcome. pay me back by helping out someone else on the forums or IRC sometime
17:57 < rjacobsen> i try lol
17:57 < rjacobsen> also can you put more than 1 group in grouptext macro?
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18:24 <@rizen> no
18:25 <@rizen> but you can create a new group
18:25 <@rizen> that includes multiple groups
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18:56 < Lisette> i do a new payDriver and when i execute shows me the next error.....  ERROR - www.pruebas.com.conf - WebGUI::URL::Content::__ANON__[62] - Can't call method "canUse" on an undefined value at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Shop/Pay.pm line 116. ..... what is my error?
18:59 < Lisette> which is the undefined value, which is the value that need the pay.pm?? 
19:00 <@perlmonkey2> So what does everyone think.  Move the admin tab to the left like the bug says?  http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/8923
19:01 <@rizen> Lisette: it's exactly the same thing that you hit us up for yeterday or two days ago
19:01 <@rizen> you're using an undefined reference
19:01 < SDuensin> perlmonkey2 - Can't get the PNG to show up.
19:01 <@rizen> why don't you try to actually read the error and figure it out for yourself before posting here
19:01 <@rizen> that's one of the simplest errors
19:01 <@perlmonkey2> SDuensin: why, is your screen resolution too low :P
19:01 < SDuensin> :-P
19:02 <@perlmonkey2> but really, I don't have any problem with it showing.
19:02 < SDuensin> No, but the funny part is - I get taken to the asset screen and the list covers the controls.  :-)
19:02 <@perlmonkey2> but it just shows the asset manager header bar overlapping the admin div.
19:02 <@perlmonkey2> hahahhahaa
19:02 < SDuensin> Instant screen shot!  :-D
19:02 <@perlmonkey2> that is funny
19:03 <@rizen> perlmonkey2 it's not a bug
19:03 < SDuensin> I can see how that'd be annoying.  Don't think it's a bug though.
19:03 <@rizen> i've tolder her it's not a bug
19:03 <@perlmonkey2> you da boss
19:03 <@rizen> and i'm telling her again now
19:03 <@perlmonkey2> okay, I shall close the bug and relay the message
19:03 < SDuensin> The real bug is people using small ass screens!
19:03 <@perlmonkey2> no doubt
19:03 <@perlmonkey2> WG wasn't meant for your PSP
19:04 <@rizen> i already did pm2
19:04 < SDuensin> Damn!  Guess I'll go back to Windows Mobile.   :-P
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19:07 < SDuensin> rizen - The stuff you mailed me.  Want all the pages back or just the signed ones?
19:08 <@rizen> all
19:08 < SDuensin> ko
19:08 < SDuensin> Scanning!
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19:57 < Lisette> ????
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20:05 < CIA-6> WebGUI: yung * r8371 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt www/extras/wobject/Thingy/thingy.js): fixed #9076: Thingy broken in latest beta, Save and Close buttons missing from Add/Edit Field dialogs
20:12 < Lisette> anyone knows the PayDrivers?
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21:16 < rjacobsen> afternoon all..... wondering if anyone happens to know what the tmpl_var variable is for the fullsize image asset in the photo gallery.... i know the thumbnail is <tmpl_var thumbnail> and the url to the page it is on is <tmpl_var url>
21:16 <@preaction> fileUrl
21:16 < rjacobsen> so <tmpl_var fileUrl>?
21:16 <@preaction> well, probably. check the help
21:17 < rjacobsen> i have looked in the help with no success
21:20 <@preaction> ?op=viewHelp;hid=help view;namespace=Asset_Photo <- it's in the "Photo -- Normal View" section
21:21 < rjacobsen> ok thanx ill try that
21:22 < Lisette> someone can help me?
21:22 < rjacobsen> ill try
21:24 < rjacobsen> preaction - <tmpl_var fileUrl> brings up nothing
21:27 < rjacobsen> let me explain what i am trying to do preaction.... the normal way a photo is displayed in the gallery is a user clicks it to see that thumbnail by itself, and then clicks it again to see it full size in a blank window leaving the webgui site.... 
21:28 < rjacobsen> i want to make it to where when they click the thumbnail it uses javascript to open a popup window with the fullsize image in the window
21:28 < rjacobsen> so
21:29 < rjacobsen> i need the url of the fullsize image to pass it to javascript.... and fileUrl doesnt seem to be doing it
21:30 <@preaction> rjacobsen, are you using the Gallery asset?
21:30 <@preaction> what page are you looking at?
21:30 < rjacobsen> yes
21:30 < rjacobsen> the photo gallery template
21:31 < rjacobsen> photo_gallery
21:31 < rjacobsen> can i paste code in this window?
21:31 < rjacobsen> if so i will show you what i have
21:32 <@Haarg> http://webgui.pastebin.com/
21:32 <@preaction> you mean the Collaboration System photo_gallery?
21:32 < rjacobsen> yes preaction
21:32 < rjacobsen> <tmpl_loop post_loop>
21:32 < rjacobsen> 	<div class="picture">
21:32 < rjacobsen> 		<div style="text-align: center;">
21:32 < rjacobsen> 			<tmpl_if user.isPoster><div>(<tmpl_var status>)</div></tmpl_if>
21:32 < rjacobsen> 			<div><a href="<tmpl_var url>" target="_blank"><img src="<tmpl_var thumbnail>" alt="<tmpl_var title>" /></a></div>
21:32 < rjacobsen> 			<div><a href="<tmpl_var url>" target="_blank"><tmpl_var title> url:<tmpl_var url> thumbnail:<tmpl_var fileUrl></a></div>
21:32 < rjacobsen> 		</div>
21:32 < rjacobsen> 	</div>
21:32 < rjacobsen> </tmpl_loop>
21:32 < rjacobsen> that is what it looks like
21:33 < rizen_> rjacobsen
21:33 <@preaction> rjacobsen, DO NOT PASTE TO THE CHANNEL
21:33 < rizen_> that's not the gallery asset
21:33 < rjacobsen> sorry
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21:33 <@rizen> that is a gallery template for the collaboration system
21:33 < rjacobsen> ok
21:33 <@rizen> There actually is a gallery asset
21:33 <@preaction> but yes, that's not the Gallery asset, and i doubt you'll be able to do what you want with it
21:33 <@preaction> there's also a migration script
21:35 <@preaction> rjacobsen, did you try using "url" for your purposes?
21:35 <@preaction> the URL to download an image is the URL of the image
21:36 < rjacobsen> right... the problem is we have like 50+ websites, so I am trying to edit the main template so it affects all the sites without having to do each individual site
21:37 <@preaction> i don't understand. you can use the <tmpl_var url> to get the url to the image
21:37 < rjacobsen> it doesnt
21:37 <@preaction> what URL does it get then?
21:38 < rjacobsen> it gives the url to the page it is on PLUS the url to the image - which means it opens the whole webgui page the image sits on and the image itself in it
21:38 <@preaction> so your image is using a template then?
21:38 < rjacobsen> so <tmpl_var url> would give something like /photogallery2/test2#jhaevoeaherjijaj
21:39 < rjacobsen> photogallery2 being the page
21:39 < rjacobsen> test2 being the image name
21:39 < rjacobsen> and the rest being the actual asset url
21:39 <@preaction> are you inside the attachmentLoop?
21:40 <@preaction> oh... that's not an absolute url
21:40 < rjacobsen> and i cant seem to single out the asset
21:40 < rjacobsen> ya
21:40 <@preaction> you need /<tmpl_var url> <- like that
21:40 <@preaction> or better: ^FileUrl(<tmpl_var url>);
21:41 < rjacobsen> invalid asset url
21:41 <@preaction> then try the first one
21:42 < rjacobsen> all that does is put an extra / in front of the url i typed above
21:43 < rjacobsen> unless it needs the  <- at the end of it too
21:43 <@preaction> so which template are you in again? the namespace, not the name
21:43 < rjacobsen> collaberation template > photo_gallery
21:44 <@preaction> that's the name, not the namespace. look on the Metadata tab of the template
21:44 < rjacobsen> Collaboration is the Namespace
21:47 <@preaction> did you try the <tmpl_var image.url>?
21:47 < rjacobsen> see the variables i see that work for sure are <tmpl_var title> (image title) <tmpl_var thumbnail> (url to the thumbnail) <tmpl_var url> (url to the page the image sits on and places the thumbnail there)
21:47 <@preaction> the Collaboration template shows all the threads, and it doesn't get into the attachment loop. it gets the first attachment, but that's all
21:47 <@preaction> <tmpl_var url> is the URL to the Post
21:48 < rjacobsen> that was it preaction
21:48 < rjacobsen> <tmpl_var image.url> works
21:49 <@preaction> that's in the Post List Template Variables, which is linked from the Collaboration Template Variables. look in the right side area for linked entries
21:51 < rjacobsen> its wierd cuz i dont see image.url in there anywhere
21:51 < rjacobsen> oops
21:51 < rjacobsen> it is in the main part
21:51 < rjacobsen> i see it now
21:53 < rjacobsen> i do thankyou for your help preaction and i apologize again for pasting into the window
22:09 < Lisette> how to do a post from a .pm? more specific from a paydriver rediret an another page and later this new page returns me some parameter to the paydriver?
22:36 < CIA-6> WebGUI: doug * r8372 /branch/frank/t/Account.t: added test
23:15 <@preaction> anyone available to discuss a bug i can't seem to find a way to fix?
23:15 <@preaction> the WebGUI::ProfileField does the wrong thing when trying to grab its value from the current request, but doing the right thing breaks it even more
23:17 <@preaction> Line 249 of WebGUI::ProfileField, if (defined $self->session->form->process($properties->{name}, $self->get(
23:17 <@preaction> currently that's my fix that broke it worse
23:18 <@preaction> i'm adding tests to prevent that regression again, but the only thing i can think of to truly fix is to change 249 to if ( $form->get( ... ) ne $self->get('dataDefault') )
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--- Day changed Sat Nov 15 2008
00:07 < CIA-6> WebGUI: amhhenry * r8373 /branch/alphamega/ (152 files in 58 dirs): Synced branch with HEAD
00:09 <@preaction> how come that syncing stuff is so easy for everybody except me?
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00:48 < CIA-6> WebGUI: doug * r8374 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (5 files in 3 dirs): 
00:48 < CIA-6> WebGUI: fixed: Regression in WebGUI::ProfileFiled
00:48 < CIA-6> WebGUI: added tests to prevent any possible future regression
00:48 < CIA-6> WebGUI: doug * r8375 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 2 dirs): merging 8374
01:14 <@perlmonkey2> can anyone else replicate this?  http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/8792
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01:23 < CIA-6> WebGUI: doug * r8376 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (5 files in 4 dirs): fixed performance issue with Stow by adding a way to bypass safety for speed
01:23 < CIA-6> WebGUI: doug * r8377 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 3 dirs): merge 8376
01:24 <@perlmonkey2> That bug is defeating firebug's attempts to see if a http call is even being made
01:27 <@preaction> heh, nice
01:27 <@preaction> is it showing up for you though?
01:31 <@perlmonkey2> no, it isn't.  But to me it is looking like the ajax call is never being made
01:31 <@perlmonkey2> preaction: I just wanted to verify.
01:31 <@perlmonkey2> and in firebug, I'm only seeing a short js script being used.
01:35 <@perlmonkey2> oh well, I'll be back later
01:37 <@perlmonkey2> oh, duh, that isn't and ajax call, but just a play call to Op for a HTMLFrom www_imageTree
01:40 <+perlDreamer> Yay!  No more 500 MHz dev system
01:42 <+perlDreamer> preaction: paginator i18n works
01:42 <@preaction> woot!
01:46 <+perlDreamer> bug--
01:59 <+perlDreamer> bug--
01:59 <@preaction> yay!
02:01 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8378 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/WebGUI.pm: fix i18n problem with version tag mode entries. Missing context and lastUpdated.
02:01 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8379 /WebGUI/ (5 files in 5 dirs): final asssetManager i18n re: 4214
02:01 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8380 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fixing date duration i18n
02:02 <@preaction> perlbot 3.4 / 0.3
02:02 <@preaction> perlbot math 3.4 / 0.3
02:02 < perlbot> 11.3333333333333
02:03 <@preaction> 1133% performance increase on my website from the changes to stow
02:05 <+perlDreamer> sincere aplogies
02:05 <@preaction> not your fault
02:05 <@preaction> you did the right thing
02:05 <+perlDreamer> I talked with JT about it
02:05 <@preaction> i kept what you did, and added a way to bypass it that's all
02:06 <+perlDreamer> He'd like us to remove all the checking and make sure that people clone stuff at need
02:06 <@preaction> oh, do i get to share in doing the wrong thing now? ;)
02:06 <@preaction> how can we enforce that?
02:06 <+perlDreamer> No, that's squarely on my shoulders
02:06 <+perlDreamer> We can't
02:06 <+perlDreamer> It's a loaded pistol
02:06 <+perlDreamer> Don't aim at your foot
02:07 <+perlDreamer> When using the Wand of Fireballs, you must disable the sprinkler system
02:07 <+perlDreamer> etc. etc.
02:07 <@preaction> i like this way, hand them a loaded pistol with the safety on, let them click it off if they want
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02:34 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8381 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (3 files in 3 dirs): backporting date duration i18n from HEAD
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03:06 <@rizen> doug doug he's our man if he can't do it, someone else will
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03:47 < CIA-6> WebGUI: jt * r8382 /WebGUI/ (9 files in 6 dirs): 
03:47 < CIA-6> WebGUI: - Added Cashier/Point of Sale mode for the Shop.
03:47 < CIA-6> WebGUI: - Added the notion of a default address to the Shop's address book.
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04:51 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8383 /branch/frank/ (47 files in 15 dirs): Account release candidate - final changes before merge
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05:20 <+perlDreamer> Does anyone know anything about the code from AMH?
05:30 <+perlDreamer> bad move rizen.
05:30 <+perlDreamer> Now we can say WebGUI is a POS
05:31 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8384 /branch/frank/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.6.1-7.6.2.pl: deleted my version of the upgrade script - need to add to 7.6.4
05:31 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8385 /branch/frank/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.6.1-7.6.2.pl: current version in head
06:03 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8386 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.6.3-7.6.4.pl: 
06:03 < CIA-6> WebGUI: Change how the versionTagMode work is updated.
06:03 < CIA-6> WebGUI: Use the API so that all profile field work is done correctly.
06:03 < CIA-6> WebGUI: Previously, adding users and any profile data was broken.
06:03 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8387 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): do not show an edit link in the Asset Manager unless the asset is editable
06:03 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8388 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (3 files in 3 dirs): backport and merge asset manager edit fixes
06:03 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8389 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Three UserList bug fixes from Bernd.
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06:34 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8390 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): backporting UserList bug fixes
07:21 < khenn_> the reformatting of the code in the past 2 weeks is just insane
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08:44 <@perlmonkey2> khenn: what's different about the code formatting?
08:44 <@khenn> I'm not convinced it's that anymore
08:44 <@khenn> I think svn merge just blows
08:44 <@khenn> I can't get it to merge without skipping 800,000 files
08:46 <@perlmonkey2> nice
08:46 <@khenn> yeah
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13:36 < CIA-6> WebGUI: amhhenry * r8391 /branch/alphamega/ (23 files in 14 dirs): Synced branch with HEAD r8390
14:14 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8392 /WebGUI/ (59 files in 19 dirs): Pluggable Account system added to WebGUI with new Profile, Inbox, Friends, User, and Shop interfaces.
14:14 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8393 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (Account.pm Shop/Transaction.pm Account/Shop.pm): Forgot one cleanup item. Transactions now properly redirect to the account module when directly called
17:06 < CIA-6> WebGUI: jt * r8394 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/packages-7.6.4/ (3 files): forgot to add these with the shop upgrades last night
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20:38 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8395 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Shop/Cart.pm: Fixed a problem where getShippingAddress was not throwing an error but still returning undef in some situations causing the cart to fail.
21:18 < CIA-6> WebGUI: jt * r8396 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Shop/ (Cart.pm AddressBook.pm): the real fix to the problem frank just checked in
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01:02 < CIA-6> WebGUI: jt * r8397 /experimental/ (15 files in 7 dirs): plain black's automated hosting system
01:02 < CIA-6> WebGUI: jt * r8398 / (experimental/Lift Lift): moving the experimental upgrade system into it's proper location
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02:15 < CIA-6> WebGUI: jt * r8399 /experimental/Automat/sbin/ (Automat-install.pl Automat-importSiteListFromCsv.pl): an importer
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05:42 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8400 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fix dataform inTab template variable
05:42 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8401 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): forward porting DataForm inTab template variable fix
05:43 <+perlDreamer> Go colin!
05:43 <+perlDreamer> He's fixed like 3 bugs so far, and committed patches for two more.
05:46 <@rizen> wait a minute
05:46 <@rizen> are you cheering yourself?
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07:02 <+perlDreamer> patspam: ping
07:07 < patspam> hey!
07:08 < patspam> perlDreamer: pong
07:31 <+perlDreamer> I can't duplicate your edit workflow bug.
07:31 <+perlDreamer> Not on my dev box
07:31 <+perlDreamer> but I can on the demo server
07:31 <+perlDreamer> I think it depends on which workflows you have enabled in your config
07:32 <+perlDreamer> by chance, do you have one for ProcessRecurringPayments?
07:39 < patspam> ah yes I think I saw an error coming out of ProcessRecurringPayments a week later and disabled it
07:39 < patspam> not sure if the edit workflow bug is still biting me, I'll check
07:40 <+perlDreamer> I'll add some code to trap that, like you did, in any case
07:45 < patspam> yep, just reproduced it: Can't locate object method "getName" via package "WebGUI::Workflow::Activity::ProcessRecurringPayments" at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/Workflow.pm line 221. 
07:46 < patspam> but you only see the error if you wrap www_editWorkflow in WebGUI::Operation::Workflow in an eval
07:46 <+perlDreamer> I can get it with debug mode turned on.
07:47 < patspam> ah yes, that would do it too :)
07:47 <+perlDreamer> At first, I hoped that the bug had been fixed accidently and i was going to close the bug.
07:47 < patspam> lately I've started wrapping my Content Handlers in an eval so that errors get logged
07:47 <+perlDreamer> that's a good idea
07:48 <+perlDreamer> eventually, they'll probably throw exceptions
07:48 < patspam> yeah that would be nice
07:54 <+perlDreamer> in any case, you'll want to disable to workflow activity and remove it from your workflows.  It's not working.
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07:59 <+perlDreamer> and a bigger question is, how in the world did that survive the Shop upgrade in 7.5.11?
08:00 <+perlDreamer> patspam, would you send me a copy of that workflow activity?  I'd like to use it for testing purposes.
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10:16 < CIA-6> WebGUI: jt * r8402 /experimental/Automat/ (9 files in 3 dirs): move domain to be a child of customer instead of site
10:49 < CIA-6> WebGUI: jt * r8403 /experimental/Automat/lib/ (WebGUI/Asset/Automat.pm Automat/DomainRecord.pm): bug fixes
11:09 < CIA-6> WebGUI: jt * r8404 /experimental/Automat/lib/Automat/ (Site.pm DomainName.pm): more bug fixes
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18:51 < CIA-6> WebGUI: jt * r8405 /experimental/Automat/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 
18:51 < CIA-6> WebGUI: bug fixes
18:51 < CIA-6> WebGUI: automatically delete domain name if no records remain
20:35 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8406 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ProfileField.pm: Fixed a bug where formField was setting the formProcess value in certain cases even if the form hadn't been posted. This was causing the stored value of fields to be set to the default value when it shouldn't have been.
21:16 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8407 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ProfileCategory.pm: Added properties argument to getCategories and getFields methods which allow you to specify the states of visible, editable, and in the case of getFields required.
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23:39 < CIA-6> WebGUI: yung * r8408 /branch/WebGUI_Matrix2/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Adding more features to Matrix v2
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--- Day changed Mon Nov 17 2008
00:16 < CIA-6> WebGUI: translation * r8409 /translations/German/German/ (Asset_Collaboration.pm Asset_DataTable.pm): Update from translation server
00:16 < CIA-6> WebGUI: translation * r8410 /translations/German/German/ (Asset_ProjectManager.pm Asset_Sku.pm): Update from translation server
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02:06 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8411 /WebGUI/ (7 files in 7 dirs): Fixed a number of issues with the profile and refactored some of the code to make it more efficient.
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04:55 <+perlDreamer> preaction, perlmonkey2: need some hacking advice
04:55 <@perlmonkey2> ut oh
04:55 <+perlDreamer> yeah, I did it again
04:55 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: use something sharp?
04:56 <+perlDreamer> Just my head
04:56 <@perlmonkey2> what's the dillio?
04:56 <+perlDreamer> Please check out bug 8845
04:56 <+perlDreamer> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/8845
04:57 <+perlDreamer> can we teach perlbot to format bug URLs for us?
04:57 <+perlDreamer> The problem is two-fold
04:57 <+perlDreamer> 1) We left a bad workflow activity in the user's config file from the 7.5.10-7.5.11 upgrade
04:57 <+perlDreamer> 2) In the Edit Workflow activity screen, it tries to load that activity
04:58 <+perlDreamer> of course, it can't so it pukes
04:58 <+perlDreamer> but that's the problem, it shouldn't puke
04:58 <@perlmonkey2> catch a require?
04:58 <+perlDreamer> yes/no
04:58 <+perlDreamer> See Workflow/Activity.pm, lines 335-348
04:58 <+perlDreamer> sub newByPropertyHashRef
04:59 <@perlmonkey2> oh
04:59 <+perlDreamer> in particular, lines 341,342
04:59 <@perlmonkey2> already does that :)
04:59 <@perlmonkey2> ah
04:59 <+perlDreamer> It tries to load $class, not $className
04:59 <+perlDreamer> $class is ... Workflow::Activity
05:00 <+perlDreamer> which will always work
05:00 <+perlDreamer> (well, pretty much always)
05:00 <+perlDreamer> so it tries to load Workflow::Activity, but blesses into $className
05:00 <@perlmonkey2> (as an aside, Pluggable does not look like a good thing to me)
05:00 <+perlDreamer> and whammo, loading errors are skipped
05:01 <@perlmonkey2> so, will it exploped if you change the load to className/
05:01 <@perlmonkey2> since we want to load the activity module?
05:02 <+perlDreamer> No.  It will return undef.
05:02 <+perlDreamer> I keep going back to rizen's email about symptoms and causes.
05:02 <@perlmonkey2> so it should return an error object?  do we have those?
05:02 <+perlDreamer> it probably should throw an exception
05:02 <+perlDreamer> except it doesn't now
05:02 <+perlDreamer> it returns undef
05:03 <@perlmonkey2> If an activity is asked for that doesn't exists, there are only a few options.
05:03 <@perlmonkey2> that doesn't seem very WG-ish :P
05:03 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8412 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): 
05:03 < CIA-6> WebGUI: Trap trying to instance bad workflow activities.
05:03 < CIA-6> WebGUI: Remove the ProcessRecurringPayments activity from the user's config.
05:03 <@perlmonkey2> it should throw $@
05:03 <@perlmonkey2> probably with a code or something to say it doesn't exists
05:03 <@perlmonkey2> exist
05:04 <@perlmonkey2> but then every thing that calls newByPropertyHash needs to be updated to look for exceptions.
05:04 <+perlDreamer> returning undef is historically wG.  Exceptions are the new WGBP way of doing things
05:04 <+perlDreamer> and that's the rub, we can't modify the API
05:04 <@perlmonkey2> I like throwing exceptions and handling them.  Then I never find my bugs, but the app kind of crawls along, being so fault tolerant :P
05:05 <+perlDreamer> kind of like greasing your windmills with bird guts? ;)
05:05 <+perlDreamer> sorry, that's not the best analogy
05:05 <@perlmonkey2> ah, I hope you just made that up, because if that ever really happend I'll lose all faith in windmills.
05:06 <@perlmonkey2> so it is an 8.0 update
05:06 <+perlDreamer> I think so
05:06 <+perlDreamer> Have you started building windmills yet?
05:07 <@perlmonkey2> so what we'll see if we look for implementations is a bunch of "my $activity = Workflow::Activity->newByPropertyHashRef($class,$session,$props)" and there just isn't anyway to make $activity do double duty.  
05:08 <@perlmonkey2> or is it an actual $asset that's being called, and Pluggable::load($class) looks at the object type?
05:10 <+perlDreamer> it's told to look at $class (Workflow::Activity) instead of (Workflow::Activity::activityName)
05:10 <@perlmonkey2> no, I haven't started on windmills yet.  I keep going to auctions for welders, but haven't found a steal just yet.
05:11  * apeiron can't resist making a steel pun
05:11 <@perlmonkey2> although I found plans for a 100W for $150.  Made out of 6 inch PVC and a cheopo alternator from ebay.
05:12 <+perlDreamer> cool
05:13 <@perlmonkey2> could probably discombubalate the alteranator and cast it in resin so that it would last forever, but I'm really looking forward to having a welder.
05:13 <@perlmonkey2> no more mickey mouse LCD's mounts in my truck.  
05:14 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2: You're hardcore.
05:14 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: why do you say that?
05:14 <+perlDreamer> the whole metal working thing
05:14 <+perlDreamer> I just hack stuff
05:15 <+perlDreamer> drywall, romex, cat-5, perl
05:15 <+perlDreamer> you actually build stuff from scratch
05:15 <+perlDreamer> very cool
05:15 <@perlmonkey2> I haven't actually done the metal working yet.  So far I just go to auctions, look at welders, and wonder if I can get this $2K welder and generator for a few hundred bucks :P  
05:16 <@perlmonkey2> drywall, romex?
05:16 <+perlDreamer> well, in any case, it sounds good
05:16 <@perlmonkey2> I don't build cat-5 from scratch ?  :P
05:16 <+perlDreamer> yeah. Remodeling. drywall = gypsum board
05:16 <@perlmonkey2> oh
05:16 <+perlDreamer> romex is the plastic sheathed stuff for electrical wire
05:16 <@perlmonkey2> conduit?
05:17 <+perlDreamer> No, just the regular old stuff.  White sheating around color coded wires
05:17 <+perlDreamer> conduit is hard to work with
05:17 <@perlmonkey2> I'm guessing there are a lot of welders out there who would prefert to be able to hack perl :P
05:18 <+perlDreamer> probably :)
05:18 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: you're like so hardcore, Chuck Norris once asked you to write a test for him.
05:18 <+perlDreamer> Indeed he did.  And the test did what Chuck said, or else!
05:19 <@perlmonkey2> yeah, I was just being silly.  Everyone knows Chuck Norris codes with a magnet, cosmic rays, and flash rom.
05:26  * perlDreamer goes to check on the kids, bbiaw
05:26 <+perlDreamer> I have big news, perlmonkey2.  News release tomorrow
05:27 <@perlmonkey2> eh?
05:27 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: you cna't do that.
05:36 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8413 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (Workflow/Activity.pm Operation/Workflow.pm): refix the Workflow bug the correct way
05:36 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8414 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (5 files in 5 dirs): backport Workflow::Activity class loading and error handling fix
06:05 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: so?  
06:06 <@perlmonkey2> you going to enlighten?
06:06 <@perlmonkey2> In Europe its already Monday.  Just tell them, on this channel.
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06:13 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8415 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Account.pm: fixed a corner case where template variables could overlap.
06:21 <+perlDreamer> sorry, no leakies
06:27 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: wow, that is just cruel :)
06:27 <@perlmonkey2> okay, I'm outy 5000
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06:42 <+Radix-wrk> it's been monday for ages already
06:46 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8416 /WebGUI/docs/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fix the template of a newsletter template
06:46 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8417 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/ (2 files in 2 dirs): move package into the right directory
06:46 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8418 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.6.4: also remove bogus directory
07:00 <+perlDreamer> In firebug, can I get to a command line and talk to the interpreter directly?
07:00 <+perlDreamer> like perl's debugger mode?
07:00 <@khenn> not sure what you mean
07:00 <@khenn> you can change stuff
07:01 <+perlDreamer> I want to ask it what it thinks a variable is
07:01 <@khenn> javascript you mean?
07:01 <+perlDreamer> yes
07:01 <@khenn> I don't know
07:01 <@khenn> I've never used the javascript stuff
07:01 <+perlDreamer> I've used it a bit over the last few days.  It's very handy.
07:01 <+perlDreamer> with help from preaction++, I set breakpoints and debugged some bad JS I wrote
07:03 <+perlDreamer> It's Ctrl-Shift-L to  bring up the command line
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07:16 <@khenn> nice
07:16 <@khenn> I'll have to try it
07:17 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8419 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fix the template of a newsletter template
07:17 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8420 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Account/Profile.pm: updated view method to use new way of calling ProfileCategory methods
07:17 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8421 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Inbox.pm: Fixed a bug which would cause the query to return inbox messages to fail if the user wasn't a member of any groups.
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07:49 < CIA-6> WebGUI: patspam * r8422 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (12 files in 4 dirs): Merge branch 'survey2' into flux
07:49 < CIA-6> WebGUI: patspam * r8423 /branch/WebGUI_flux/t/Asset/Wobject/Survey.t: Merge branch 'survey2' into flux
07:49 < CIA-6> WebGUI: patspam * r8424 /branch/WebGUI_flux/lib/WebGUI/Flux.pm: Improved experimental getHighestSticky method so that is can optionally skip rules in a linear progression
07:49 < CIA-6> WebGUI: patspam * r8425 /branch/WebGUI_flux/fluxdesigndocs/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Added flux odt presentations
07:49 < CIA-6> WebGUI: patspam * r8426 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (51 files in 30 dirs): 
07:49 < CIA-6> WebGUI: Merge branch '7.6.3-beta' into flux
07:49 < CIA-6> WebGUI: Conflicts:
07:49 < CIA-6> WebGUI:  lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm
07:49 < CIA-6> WebGUI:  lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm
07:49 < CIA-6> WebGUI: patspam * r8427 /branch/WebGUI_flux/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/ (Survey/SurveyJSON.pm Survey/ResponseJSON.pm Survey.pm): Cherry-picked latest Survey from trunk
07:49 < CIA-6> WebGUI: patspam * r8428 /branch/WebGUI_flux/lib/WebGUI/Flux.pm: Refactored getHighestSticky into more usable getLinearProgression, now returns entrie progression.
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11:24 < CIA-6> WebGUI: translation * r8429 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Shop.pm: Update from translation server
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16:09 < SDuensin> Greetings.
16:10 <@preaction> morning
16:11  * SDuensin is gonna dive into WebGUI today!
16:11 <@preaction> yay!
16:13 < SDuensin> You say that now.  Wait until the questions start!
16:15 < SDuensin> And here they go...
16:15 < SDuensin> I installed WRE and WebGUI 7.5.3x from tarballs.  Now I have WebGUI 7.5.x from SVN.  Should I run the upgrade scripts?  How do I know when SVN has database changes I need to apply?
16:16 <@preaction> grab the "wgreset" script from svn.webgui.org/plainblack/tools
16:16 < SDuensin> And for you Mac-based developers, what tools do you prefer for working with WebGUI?
16:16 <@preaction> use that to reset your dev copy when you "svn up"
16:16 <@preaction> i use vim with perl support and OSX's default terminal program
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16:17 <@preaction> the other PB devs use Komodo IDE
16:17 < SDuensin> VIM?  Yea.  Ok, remind me not to ask you again.  :-P
16:18  * SDuensin is a JOE fan!
16:22 < SDuensin> They're kinda proud of Komodo, aren't they?
16:22 <@preaction> who are?
16:22 < SDuensin> ActiveState
16:23 <@preaction> uh... it makes them money?
16:23 < SDuensin> I know.  Just been spoiled lately.  Been head-down in FOSS-land.
16:23  * SDuensin has no wgreset in tools.
16:23 < SDuensin> :-/
16:24 <@preaction> SDuensin, it's in the svn repo
16:24 < SDuensin> Yea, I pulled it with:  svn co https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/tools tools 
16:26 <@preaction> looks like it's called "wgd" now, and it's a little more involved than it used to be
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16:29 < SDuensin> That thing does quite a bit.
16:29  * SDuensin is reading code
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16:33 <@perlmonkey2> yeah, wgd is da bomb
16:33  * SDuensin bets he can make it bomb.  :-)
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17:00 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8430 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Account/User.pm: Fixed an issue which was causing the wrong style template to be used in certain cases.
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17:52 <+perlDreamer> Morning folks
17:53 < SDuensin> Hey perlDreamer 
17:53 <+perlDreamer> I have an announcement to make.
17:53 <+perlDreamer> I am no longer a chip designer
17:53 <+perlDreamer> I was layed-off last Friday
17:53 < SDuensin> :-(
17:53 <+perlDreamer> From today on, I am now the proprietor and owner of perlDreamer Consulting, LLC
17:53 <+perlDreamer> specializing in WebGUI programming
17:54 < SDuensin> perlDreamer, we can be scared together then.  Filing my resignation letter today.
17:54 <+perlDreamer> (and assorted housework)
17:54 <+perlDreamer> good luck SDuensin
17:54 < SDuensin> My wife is gonna shit bricks.
17:56 <@rizen> SD, i thought you already quit
17:57 <@rizen> you haven't discussed this with your wife? seems like a bad idea.
17:59 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: holy moly rolly polly
18:00 < Bernd_> perlDreamer, congratulations!
18:00 < Bernd_> Is that going to make you a rich man, eventually?
18:00 <+perlDreamer> Probably not, but I'm planning on a happier life through perl programming ;)
18:01 < Bernd_> And will I have to pay for advice in the future?
18:01 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: tough times to start a consulting business, but people will be looking to save cash, and you can sell them on savings with WG migrations.
18:01 < Bernd_> Just be cheaper than plain black ;-)
18:01 <+perlDreamer> Bernd_: The plan is to keep doing what I have been doing.  It's just that I'm available for consulting purposes.
18:02 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: you aren't going to market yourself?
18:02 < Bernd_> That is great news!
18:02 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: how will you get business?
18:02 <+perlDreamer> Well, one thing that helped me make this decision is that I already have two customers.
18:03 <+perlDreamer> But I will need to market myself.  It's something I'm going to have to work on.
18:05 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: my sis pays $5k/month in marketing for her business :P
18:05 <@perlmonkey2> I'm not sure that is the way to go.
18:05 <+perlDreamer> uh, not for me.  Not yet.
18:05 <+perlDreamer> But if she can spend $5K/month on marketing, she must be doing well
18:06 <@perlmonkey2> well, there is a lot of cash floating around, I'm just not sure how much she hangs on to.
18:06 < Bernd_> I could quit my current job and do the marketing for $5K/month.
18:06 < Bernd_> Not sure though if my services are worth that much :-)
18:06 <@perlmonkey2> That 5K covers some serious advertising exposure though.
18:07 < Bernd_> I see.
18:07 < Bernd_> Rather going to keep my job.
18:08 < dionak> is ProcessRecurringPayments no longer a valid workflow? it's in the conf file but I can't locate the perl class in the Workflow directory 
18:09 < dionak> wg 7.5
18:09 <@rizen> not needed anymore
18:09 <@rizen> dionak
18:10 < dionak> so it should be removed from the conf file...
18:11 < dionak> is this considered a bug?
18:11 <@preaction> dionak, i think it's already posted. there were a couple bugs about "unable to edit workflows", which was caused by that
18:11 < dionak> ah
18:11 < dionak> k, thanks
18:12 < dionak> didn't see that in my first search..
18:14 < BartJol> oh perlDreamer, my problem of last thursday solved itself (or I was stupid and too unpatient foe some caching problem)
18:14 <+perlDreamer> Cool.
18:15 < BartJol> so no chip designing for you huh
18:15 <+perlDreamer> Not any more
18:16 < BartJol> maybe you can ask money for being online here and answering questions
18:16 < BartJol> by minute
18:16 <+perlDreamer> 5 cents, please
18:17 < BartJol> yeah, well, since I seem to be your manager in this case, I ask 50% from all revenues
18:17 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer support LLC.  $1 to ask an easy question, $10 per hard question, $100 for hand holding.
18:17 -!- bopbop [n=kmccombs@68-114-219-232.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit ["bye"]
18:17 < BartJol> initial consult is 85 euro an hour
18:18 < BartJol> so I get 84,975 euro from you
18:19 < BartJol> can I add that to a "BartJol may ask stupid questions" fund?
18:19 < BartJol> darn, first stupid question
18:19 <+perlDreamer> BartJol, I don't plan on selling IRC support.  _You_ may always ask questions
18:20 < BartJol> hip hip hooray
18:22 <+perlDreamer> but i18n bugs cost 1 euro each
18:22 < BartJol> ?
18:22 < Bernd_> What about applying patches?
18:22 < Bernd_> Still free?
18:22 <+perlDreamer> sure
18:22 < BartJol> so you can't stand that I correct you in your english?
18:23 <+perlDreamer> I can stand it.  I just need a backup cash flow.
18:23 < BartJol> :)
18:23 <+perlDreamer> I meen kassh floow
18:23 < BartJol> mmm, maybe I'll just stop reporting them
18:23 < BartJol> who gets the invoice?
18:23 <+perlDreamer> Koen, of course
18:24 < BartJol> that sounds reasonable
18:25 <+perlDreamer> How is Tessa doing?
18:25 < BartJol> well, still pretty ok 
18:25 < BartJol> I didn't talk with her that much last friday\
18:25 < BartJol> but she seemed ok
18:25 <+perlDreamer> good
18:30 < BartJol> I do have a recent pictue, but without zoom on her belly
18:31 <@perlmonkey2> babies++
18:33 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2: Planning on forking any processes?
18:33 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: heh, not anytime soon
18:34 < BartJol> mmm, my  stalled workflows seem to withhold me from getting the picture on my site
18:37 < Bernd_> We do!
18:38 < Bernd_> 6th week. So it is still a bit early to talk about it.
18:38 < BartJol> well, I'm off to home
18:39 < BartJol> so have fun talking about babies
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18:53 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8431 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): prevent calendar feed workflow activity from creating version tags unless it needs to
19:03 -!- Bernd_ [n=spunky@193.197.72.74] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
19:07 <@perlmonkey2> Bernd_ is 6 weeks into a forking call?
19:08 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@h19-afsc.ded.indra.com] has joined #webgui
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19:09 <@rizen> bug--
19:09 <@rizen> go pd go
19:09 <@rizen> go pd go
19:20  * perlDreamer only hates JS 95% now
19:20 < SDuensin> hehe
19:21  * SDuensin shows perlDreamer ObjJ.
19:21 <@preaction> objJ? there's a MORE object-oriented java?
19:21 <+perlDreamer> ObjJ?
19:22 < SDuensin> ObjJ is a super-set of JS modeled after Objective-C.  It's spiffy.
19:22  * SDuensin waits for rizen to scream "NOOOOO!"
19:22 <@preaction> that doesn't sound so bad
19:22 < SDuensin> No, it's very cool.
19:24 <+perlDreamer> preaction: When a JS object method is called, how does it get a copy of the object?
19:24 <+perlDreamer> is it "this"?
19:24 <@preaction> yes
19:24 <@preaction> "this" is magic
19:24 <@preaction> just like "new"
19:25 <@preaction> most OO systems are metric butt-tons of magic / keywords
19:25 <@preaction> except, of course, Perls
19:25 <+perlDreamer> hm
19:27 <+perlDreamer> more assetManager questions, then
19:27 <+perlDreamer> the custom paginator query function is not being called
19:27 <+perlDreamer> assetManager.js, like 253
19:27 <@preaction> heh, that sounds like a JT question. he fixed that part of it
19:28 <+perlDreamer> rizen: ping
19:39 < SDuensin> rizen: timed out
19:40 < SDuensin> Anyone want to direct my clueless butt towards a development workflow of some kind?
19:41 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin, do you want a sample Workflow Activity, or something different?
19:42 < SDuensin> No, no.  Not WebGUI workflows.  What I need to do to work on WebGUI.  I checked out the code, tools, etc.  Now what?
19:43 <+perlDreamer> Fire up mysql, httpd and spectre
19:43 -!- rjacobsen [n=rjacobse@74-142-170-75.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #webgui
19:43 < SDuensin> Fired.
19:43 <+perlDreamer> Now, what kind of code do you want to build?
19:44 < SDuensin> All I know is that there's still no contact from the colony and that a xenomorph may be involved...    It's a bug hunt.
19:44  * SDuensin wants to be able to fix bugs in WebGUI.
19:44 < rjacobsen> good afternoon - wondering if someone could look at http://www.cdsforkids.net/photo_gallery2/making-of-the-mediak-dvd?func=thumbnails for me and tell me why when the mouse is rolled over a thumbnail it brings up an image, but when the mouse rolls off the image does not go away?
19:45 < rjacobsen> i am using the default webgui gallery thumbnail asset
19:45 < rjacobsen> and i think someone of the javascript is messed up, but not sure how you folks intended for it to work
19:45 < rjacobsen> some*
19:45  * SDuensin is looking, rjacobsen 
19:47 < rjacobsen> i just confirmed it does it in both ie and firefox
19:55  * SDuensin is still learning his way around the source.  He's slow.
19:58 <@preaction> SDuensin, that code is in "thumbnails.js", located in the Gallery Templates folder under the root node
19:58 < SDuensin> ko
19:58 < rjacobsen> ya i saw that
19:58 <@preaction> it's... a bit tricky, so i'm not suprised that sometimes it doesn't work right
19:59 < rjacobsen> but not sure what code to manipulate to fix it
19:59 < rjacobsen> it looks like the yahoo code
19:59 <@preaction> it doesn't work at all in IE6, so that browser doesn't see it
20:02 < rjacobsen> something else interesting.... if after you roll the mouse over the new popup image, the popup image goes away like it is supposed to
20:02 < rjacobsen> but not till you roll the mouse over the popup
20:03 < SDuensin> rjacobsen - which template are you using?  Default Gallery View Photo?
20:04 <@preaction> the popup is supposed to be exactly over the original thumbnail. if it isn't, then that's the problem
20:04 < rjacobsen> i edited the default gallery view photo template
20:04 < SDuensin> preaction - the original thumbnail doesn't trap the mouseout?
20:05 <@preaction> it can't, there's a bigger image on top of it
20:05 < rjacobsen> the only change i made tho was to make the image open in a new window rather than a blank window taking people away from the website
20:05 < SDuensin> Not on rjacobsen's page.  :-P
20:06 <@preaction> there's a plainblack.com gallery that has the same problem. i suspect that feature will need to be removed :(
20:06 < SDuensin> Or fixed.  :-P
20:06 < rjacobsen> i would like the popup thumbnails removed if you can tell me what code to remove
20:07 < rjacobsen> and i would just like to put a  link to my javascript function to open the image in a popup window
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20:08 < rjacobsen> kind of like the code i have on this page >> http://www.cdsforkids.net/photo_gallery2/making-of-the-mediak-dvd/mediakshoot6
20:08 < rjacobsen> if you click the image it opens in a new window rather than in a new blank window taking the viewer away from the website entirely
20:09 < SDuensin> rjacobsen - Look at this one:  http://vgs.jaegertech.net/photos/vgs
20:09 < SDuensin> I can send you the package if you want it.
20:09 < rjacobsen> feel free to use the code i have on the page if you like by the way - i think this is a better idea than the old way
20:10 <@preaction> opening a new window is considered bad practice for websites, and webgui's default templates should never do it
20:10 < SDuensin> Yes.  Windows == BAAAAAAD!
20:10 < rjacobsen> wow sduensin!! i like that!!
20:10 < rjacobsen> please tell me how you did that!
20:10  * SDuensin hacked that together before the Gallery was introduced.
20:10 < rjacobsen> rofl
20:10 < SDuensin> It's just a folder with my Photo Gallery template on it.
20:11 < SDuensin> Lemme export one for you.
20:11 < rjacobsen> thanx so much
20:11 < rjacobsen> pls tell me what i have to do on my end to make it work
20:12 < SDuensin> Just import it, put a Folder on the page, File Pile all your images into it, and set the template to Photo Gallery.
20:12 < SDuensin> You can put captions on the pics, too, but I never use that.
20:12 < rjacobsen> coolness
20:13 < SDuensin> It also does multiple galleries on a single page with the next/previous links limited to each individual library.
20:14 < SDuensin> Can I DCC it over?  It's 22k.
20:14 < rjacobsen> DCC?
20:14 < SDuensin> Ok, I'll use PipeBytes.  URL on the way.
20:14 < rjacobsen> zip and email to rjacobsen@mediak.com if you like
20:15 < SDuensin> rjacobsen (and nobody else) - Go here:   http://host01.pipebytes.com/get.php?key=10134717321867
20:16 < rjacobsen> got it - let me see if i can get it to work :)
20:16 < SDuensin> Just import it using the asset manager.  To turn a folder of images into a gallery, set the Folder Template to "Photo Gallery Style".
20:17 < SDuensin> Lots of people like that.  I should put it in the bizarre bazaar. 
20:22 < rjacobsen> there may be a problem with this sduensin
20:22 < SDuensin> yea?
20:23 < rjacobsen> i have like 50 websites...... how would i put this on a website to where the owner can simply upload some photos
20:23 < SDuensin> Just make it so they can add files to the folder.
20:28 <+perlDreamer> Dude, I just wrote Javascript.
20:29 <+perlDreamer> Now I know the world is upside down
20:29 < SDuensin> :-P
20:30 < apeiron> I knew the world was upside down on Wednesday the fifth when xkcd was late and a Democrat was elected President.
20:32 <+perlDreamer> This vim macro fill autoformat a PB bug request into a changelog style comment
20:32 <+perlDreamer>  %hhd$0WWWPa ^[BhhxxxEx: <80>kb<80>kb<80>kbli:^[
20:33 < rjacobsen> hey sduensin - this is nice - how can i add the title of the image to the window that opens?
20:34 <+perlDreamer> time to take a short break
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20:34 < SDuensin> rjacobsen - Lemme look it up.  I forgot!
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20:36 < SDuensin> It appears that it displays the synopsis of the file for the description.
20:36 < rjacobsen> ya i see that
20:37 < rjacobsen> you know...... why couldnt i just use your code combined with the gallery?
20:37 < SDuensin> I'm sure you can.  Like I said, there was no gallery when I wrote it.
20:37 < rjacobsen> im gonna do it :)
20:38 < SDuensin> Rock on.
20:38 < rjacobsen> ill give ya a finished product when im done and you can give your ok
20:38 < SDuensin> Sure.  I just did some hacking to get it all nice in WebGUI.  The JS was some PD code I found elsewhere.
20:39 -!- khenn [n=khenn@97.92.186.139] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
20:39 < rjacobsen> well if i can get it working, maybe others would like it too
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20:44 < rjacobsen> stupid question...... i havent seen the ^/; macro before.... what does it point to?
20:44 < rjacobsen> the web root?
20:46 <@preaction> it's the gateway macro
20:46 <@preaction> there's a macro help pdf available in the bazaar
20:46 <+perlDreamer> rjacobsen, for a default webgui site, you'll never need it.  But if you design things for the core, or for others to use, it's always a good idea to use it.
20:47 <@khenn> best way to figure out what it will do is to just create an article somewhere, throw it in there, and then look at it
20:47 < rjacobsen> kk
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21:01 < rjacobsen> sduensin if you are still there.... it almost works as you can see here > http://www.cdsforkids.net/photo_gallery3/test/mediakshoot9 ....but for whatever reason the box on the right overlaps the thumbnail image
21:01 -!- wgGuest95 [n=wgGuest9@kayiwa.lib.uic.edu] has joined #webgui
21:01  * SDuensin is here
21:01 < SDuensin> Loading
21:01 -!- wgGuest95 [n=wgGuest9@kayiwa.lib.uic.edu] has quit [Client Quit]
21:01 < SDuensin> Cool.
21:01  * SDuensin likes the lightbox effect.
21:02 < rjacobsen> tryin to figure out how to make the stuff on the right not overlap the thumbnail
21:07 <+perlDreamer> demo.plainblack.com is running 7.5,right?
21:07 <@Haarg> yes
21:08 <+perlDreamer> is beta running 7.6?
21:08 <@Haarg> yep
21:09 <+perlDreamer> thanks, Haarg
21:12 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8432 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fix assetManager paginator and column sorting
21:30 <+perlDreamer> Haarg: re this bug http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/more-menu-doesnt-appear-for-current-asset-on-crumb-trail
21:30 <+perlDreamer> The More menu is working for me on FF/Linux
21:31 <+perlDreamer> in both 7.5 and 7.6
21:31 <+perlDreamer> Can you still see this bug?
21:35 <@Haarg> let me look
21:37 <@Haarg> not working for me
21:37 <@Haarg> the more menu on the items themselves works
21:37 <@Haarg> but not on the crumb trail at the top
21:37 <+perlDreamer> oh, the one on the crumb trail!  I looked at the wrong one
21:37 <+perlDreamer> sorry about that
21:38 <@Haarg> yeah, the code for it just doesn't exist i believe
21:40 < dionak> are the presentations from the wuc still up somewhere?
21:42 < dionak> i'm looking for arjan's config file presentation...
21:43 < dionak> nvrmind..had to login
21:43 < dionak> doh
21:55 <+perlDreamer> I see the code (and understand it) for making the more menu, but I don't know how to create something to attach it to that element of the crumb trail.
21:55 <+perlDreamer> I'll try reading the YUI menu widget docs
21:56 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
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22:04  * perlDreamer goes for a run.
22:14 <@perlmonkey2> Hmm, I wonder if I can drum up some business for perlDreamer.
22:14 < SDuensin> Me too!  :-P
22:14  * SDuensin is trying to file his resignation letter today.  Except actual work keeps getting in the way.
22:15 <@perlmonkey2> SDuensin: hahaha
22:15 <@perlmonkey2> you are so busy working you can't quit?
22:16 < SDuensin> Sucks!  :-)
22:16 < SDuensin> Trying to do a simple little import.  Usually goes fine.  Today?  Just 2032 errors.
22:28 < Mech422> WooHoo!
22:28 < Mech422> finally - a true 64Bit flash player for linux :-)
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22:39 < danny_mk> Good day
22:40 < SDuensin> Greetings.
22:40 < SDuensin> Mech422 - About time, eh?
22:40 < danny_mk> hey, preaction.  I had to fix the array issue in WObject/WSClient.pm by replacing  $var{'results'} = \@result;  with ref $result[0] eq 'ARRAY' ? ( $var{'results'} = shift(@result) ) : ( $var{'results'} = \@result );
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22:42 < Mech422> SDuensin: yeah - except I can't get it installed :-P
22:43 < rjacobsen> well sduensin... i think i got it working
22:43 < Mech422> seems the tarball doesn't include the .xpt file
22:43 -!- carogra1 [n=Caroline@c-76-24-169-61.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has left #webgui []
22:43 < SDuensin> Mech422 - Minor detail.  There's probably a Flash video explaining it.  :-P
22:43 < SDuensin> rjacobsen - Yea?  Cool!
22:43 < rjacobsen> http://www.cdsforkids.net/new_photo_gallery <<< check it out
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22:45 < rjacobsen> only thing i wish is i could figure out how to get that dang layout not to overlap the photograph in the view photo template
22:45 < SDuensin> rjacobsen - it's still overprinting the details & more details boxes on the image for me.
22:45 < SDuensin> Vuja-De!
22:45 < SDuensin> :-)
22:46 < rjacobsen> just cant seem to figure out how
22:46 < rjacobsen> i just cant seem to find the dang css for that
22:46 < rjacobsen> or whatever
22:46 <+MrHairgrease> anybody ever came across this log message? http://webgui.pastebin.com/d57e45c19
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22:50 < SDuensin> MrHairgrease - An upgrade gone crazy?
22:50 -!- crythias is now known as Guest5497
22:51 <+MrHairgrease> sduensin: don't think so. I should really upgrade that thing
22:51 <+MrHairgrease> It's running something _old_
22:51 -!- crythias1 is now known as crythias
22:51 <+MrHairgrease> and grepping on imgsrc doesn't return anything
22:51 < SDuensin> I remember those days.  Finally bit the bullet and did it.  Jumped like 47 releases in one shot.
22:52 <+MrHairgrease> oh yeah
22:52 <+MrHairgrease> i do that regularly
22:52 <+MrHairgrease> but this is a site i maintain voluntarily
22:52 <+MrHairgrease> so I always have to find time to do stuff like that
22:53 <+MrHairgrease> besides, it's heaviliy integrated with mailman
22:53 <+MrHairgrease> and I really don't wanna screw that up
22:53 <+MrHairgrease> although nothing should go wrong
22:54 < SDuensin> I also jumped two WREs.  :-)
22:56 <+MrHairgrease> hehe
22:58 <+crythias> ok. so the draggable bar is above the edit bar.
22:59 <+MrHairgrease> so it should be
22:59 <+MrHairgrease> or else you wouldn't be able to drag small assets
22:59 <+MrHairgrease> small as in not-wide
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23:11  * SDuensin has officially resignated!
23:12 <@preaction> yay!
23:13 <@perlmonkey2> SDuensin: so....screwed to death?
23:13 <@perlmonkey2> scared
23:13 <@perlmonkey2> I meant scared
23:16 <+MrHairgrease> so, now what are you gonna do?
23:16 <+MrHairgrease> move to euro trash land?
23:20 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2: drum all you wish ;)  Just don't let it be javascript!
23:20 <+perlDreamer> MrHairgrease: I have a new job
23:25 <+MrHairgrease> you have?
23:25 <+perlDreamer> I was layed-off last Friday.
23:25 <+MrHairgrease> you were laid ogg
23:26 <+MrHairgrease> or you resigned yourself?
23:26 <+perlDreamer> laid off
23:26 <+MrHairgrease> why?
23:26 <+perlDreamer> low stock price
23:26 <+MrHairgrease> wow
23:26 <+MrHairgrease> so now you do what?
23:27 <+MrHairgrease> or is that a rethoroical question =)
23:27 <+perlDreamer> from the ashes of silicon design rises perlDreamer Consulting
23:28 <+perlDreamer> time to put my hacking where my mouth is
23:29 <+MrHairgrease> right
23:29 <+MrHairgrease> you're gonna do webgui/perl stuff only
23:29 <+MrHairgrease> or are you still gonna be hacking chips
23:29 <+MrHairgrease> in vhdl or whatever you used for that
23:30 <+perlDreamer> webgui/perl only
23:30 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: I have a friend who is now a millionaire, in something like your situation.  Only he did chip design consulting, and then built a goofy kids website on the side, which he then sold for millions.
23:30 <@perlmonkey2> now he just travels the world and skiis.
23:30 <+perlDreamer> wow
23:30 <@preaction> some friend...
23:31 <@preaction> wait, was it ... zombo com?
23:31 <@perlmonkey2> I can't say
23:31 <@preaction> you can do anything at zombo com
23:32 <@perlmonkey2> no, I mean he told me I couldnt' tell anyone until the buying company does their big press release.
23:32 <@preaction> i'm pretty sure it's not zombo com
23:32 <@preaction> but zombo com is awesome anyway
23:32 -!- danny_mk [n=chatzill@64-204-40-34.client.dsl.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
23:33 <@perlmonkey2> it's a goofy kids flash/ajax site though.
23:33 <@perlmonkey2> hahahhaa, that is funny
23:34 <@perlmonkey2> ah, nothing is possible at zombo.com
23:34 <@rizen> no!
23:34 <@preaction> ... EVERYTHING is possible at zombo.com
23:34 <@rizen> ANYTHING is possible at zombocom
23:34 <@preaction> the only limit is yourself
23:35 < CIA-6> WebGUI: jt * r8433 /experimental/Automat/ (2 files in 2 dirs): bug fixes
23:35 < CIA-6> WebGUI: jt * r8434 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Crud.pm: better handling of defaults
23:36 <@rizen> the infinite is possible at zombocom
23:36 <@rizen> the unattainable is unknown at zombocom
23:37  * SDuensin is confused at zombo com.
23:38 <@perlmonkey2> if you stare too long at that site, you will become victim of the  subliminal messages and you will end up buying more ovaltine.
23:39 <+perlDreamer> I've gotta help Little Orphan Annie by drinking my ovaltine!
23:45 < Mech422> ok ... i has flash
23:45 < Mech422> and youtube still sucks
23:45 < Mech422> that is all
23:47 < Mech422> best reason I know to get flash working on my machine: http://www.fantasticcontraption.com
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23:50 < apeiron> Mech422, Ooh, thank you for reminding me about that.
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23:56 <+perlDreamer> rizen, khenn.  What's the plan for new style Account vs the old account management interfaces?
23:57 <@khenn> what do you mean?
23:57 <@khenn> the old ones go away
23:57 <@khenn> it's in the gotchas
23:59 <+perlDreamer> it's just weird seeing Content code mixed in with Operation code.  I thought that it would completely switch over.
--- Day changed Tue Nov 18 2008
00:04 <@khenn> not sure what you mean
00:05 <@khenn> are you talking about the calls to: WebGUI::Account::Content::getInstance?
00:05 <@khenn> those are simply there for backward compatibility
00:05 <@khenn> you shouldn't be touching those ops anymore
00:05 <+perlDreamer> No, I'm talking about WebGUI:Operation::Profile still existing
00:05 <@khenn> yeah
00:05 <@khenn> has to
00:05 <+perlDreamer> oh, okay
00:05 <@khenn> Those files are all deprecated
00:05 <@khenn> going away once WebGUI 8 is out
00:06 <+perlDreamer> I've been trying to fix some of the bugs, and a few have to do with profile fields and password recovery.
00:06 <@khenn> they are there so if someone is sitting out there with an email that says:  visit my profile at http://www.perldreamer.com?op=viewProfile;uid=fekwe44s
00:06 <@khenn> that still works
00:06 <@khenn> I fixed a ton of profile field stuff
00:06 <+perlDreamer> I bet.
00:06 <@khenn> forward me the bugs and I'll let you know if it's fixed or not
00:06 <@khenn> you can IM them to me
00:06 <+perlDreamer> Are you all done with Account, or still tinkering?
00:07 <@khenn> still tinkering
00:07 <@khenn> I'm just finishing up the "Invite a friend" stuff
00:08 <@khenn> and I have to document it as well
00:08 <@khenn> and fix a few other things
00:08 <+perlDreamer> Okay.  I'll limit those bug fixes to 7.5 then
00:08 <@khenn> I'll be done tonight at some point
00:08 <@khenn> with all my tinkering
00:09 <@khenn> and then I'm going to be adding as many features as I can before the feature freeze =)
00:10 <@khenn> perlDreamer:  if it's not clear that something is deprecated, let me know and I'll try to make it more obvious
00:10 <@khenn> I'm pretty sure I used the word DEPRECATED in those files like 100 times
00:11 <+perlDreamer> yep, it's there in the POD for each method.
00:17  * rizen hearts account manager
00:18 <+perlDreamer> It's a very nice interface.
00:21 <@rizen> khenn, do you already have someone working on retemplating it?
00:21 <@khenn> not presently
00:21 <@khenn> I was expecting to hear from vrby at some point
00:21 <@rizen> did you already put in the request for it?
00:22 <@khenn> no because you did
00:22 <@rizen> i did?
00:22 <+perlDreamer> http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/11/16/depression_2009_what_would_it_look_like/?page=full
00:22 <@rizen> man, the second thing to go is the memory
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00:24 <@khenn> perlDreamer, what do you think of it?
00:24 <@khenn> do you like the new account system?
00:25 <+perlDreamer> I do.
00:25 <+perlDreamer> It looks nice.
00:25 <+perlDreamer> All on 1 screen
00:25 <+perlDreamer> tabular
00:25 <+perlDreamer> I half expected it to be ajax based from the interface
00:25 <@khenn> no, it had to be 508 compliant
00:26 <@khenn> so ajax wouldn't work
00:26 <@khenn> I used YUI for the tabs
00:26 <@khenn> I couldn't use YUI Datatables because sorting options are either: dump everythign to the page and let the client paginate or use AJAX
00:27 <@khenn> and large inboxes are a concern there
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00:29 <+perlDreamer> patspam: Can I add the GraphViz dependency to the testEnvironment.pl in your WebGUI_Flux branch?
00:30 < patspam> perlDreamer: good idea
00:31 < patspam> GraphViz was just a path of least resistance for visualising the flux graph, could well be replaced with something else later
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00:38 <@perlmonkey2> flux has a graph?
00:38 <@perlmonkey2> is it a graph of auth relationships?
00:40 < patspam> it's a graph of any rules you've created
00:41 < patspam> and since rules and depend on other rules, you get funky visualisations
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00:48 -!- Radix-wrk changed the topic of #webgui to:  [ WebGUI 7.5.33-stable | WRE 0.8.5 ] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org | Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com/
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00:57 < CIA-6> WebGUI: jt * r8435 /experimental/Automat/sbin/ (Automat-install.pl Automat-importSiteListFromCsv.pl): better folders
00:57 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8436 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): update the docs for Calendar List View start.* and end.* template variables
00:57 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8437 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): backporting calendar template var docs update
00:57 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8438 /branch/WebGUI_flux/sbin/testEnvironment.pl: add dependency on GraphViz
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01:36 < CIA-6> WebGUI: jt * r8439 /experimental/Automat/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Automat.pm: case sensitivity problem
01:36 < CIA-6> WebGUI: jt * r8440 /experimental/Automat/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Automat.pm: i'm stupid
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02:11 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8441 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (lib/WebGUI/Macro/PrevNext.pm t/Macro/PrevNext.t): first cut at Previous/Next macro
02:11 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8442 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/Settings.pm: Fixed a problem in error reporting in the saveSettings method
02:11 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8443 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Account/Friends.pm: Fixed an issue where settings weren't being saved correctly.
02:11 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8444 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (lib/WebGUI/Macro/PrevNext.pm t/Macro/PrevNext.t): add code and tests for recursing up when looking for next child
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02:34 < patspam> perlmonkey2: you awake?
02:35 <@perlmonkey2> word yo
02:35 <@perlmonkey2> patspam: what's up?
02:35 < patspam> survey2 currently uses a blank style template by default, right?
02:35 <@perlmonkey2> for which template?
02:36 < patspam> for the "style" template, e.g. the overall site template
02:36 < patspam> the one that all wobjects have
02:36 <@perlmonkey2> yes, 
02:37 < patspam> sorry, i'm talking in circles
02:37 < patspam> what I really wanted to say is..
02:37 < patspam> i think that most people will want the Take Survey screen to use the site style template
02:38 < patspam> whereas by default it uses a very minimal template
02:38 <@perlmonkey2> yeah, probably so.
02:39 <@perlmonkey2> originally it was for scientific surveys which didn't want anything else cluttering the screen.
02:39 < patspam> yeah, i think that's valid in a lot of cases
02:39 <@perlmonkey2> But the default should probably be to use the site style.
02:39 < patspam> but our case is research-based and they want styling
02:40 <@perlmonkey2> and then if people don't want styling, they can remove it.
02:40 < patspam> yeah. my designer starts copy/pasting the main style template into the Take Survey template, which quickly led to a maintenance problem
02:41 < patspam> bad designer, stop that!
02:41 <@perlmonkey2> heh
02:42 < patspam> so I'll put in an RFE saying that Survey should make use of the style template on the Take Survey screen?
02:42 <@perlmonkey2> j/s
02:42 <@perlmonkey2> I'm trying to shift gears and see what needs to be done.  Might be a two second fix.
02:42 < patspam> ah-k
02:45 <@perlmonkey2> hmm, if I wrap the return in the style call, then people would have to alter the style for the page layout to show nothing if they don't want anything shown. 
02:45 <@perlmonkey2> Which should just be a simple blank style.
02:47 <@perlmonkey2> and then my default templates aren't set up to be inside a style template.
02:47 < CIA-6> WebGUI: yung * r8445 /branch/WebGUI_Matrix2/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Adding search and some compare features to Matrix v2
02:48 <@perlmonkey2> oh well, those templates are about to get an overhaul.
02:48 < patspam> yeah, I would have thought the std  wg approach would be to require people to create a new style for the stripped-down one (or use the bundled Blank Style) if they wanted anything other than the default style
02:49 <@perlmonkey2> done
02:49 < patspam> legend :)
02:50 <@perlmonkey2> hah, you mean luser for not doing it the normal way and then using a blank site style for surveys as needed.
02:52 < patspam> innovating man, that's what you were doing
02:52 <@perlmonkey2> patspam: too kind :P
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03:25 < CIA-6> WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r8446 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey.pm: Take survey now uses the site style.
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05:53 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8447 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/User.pm: fixed a bug which would allow visitors to be added to your friends list.
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06:34 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8448 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Account.pm: Fixed WebGUI::Macro::process call which was being called incorrectly but working for some reason.
07:07 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8449 /WebGUI/ (13 files in 9 dirs): Merged the "Invite a Friend" application into the Account system and cleaned up the templates in the Inbox
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07:46 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8450 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (lib/WebGUI/Macro/PrevNext.pm t/Macro/PrevNext.t): 
07:46 < CIA-6> WebGUI: Add POD.
07:46 < CIA-6> WebGUI: Add getPrevious with tests. Backward recursion still needs to be implemented.
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08:11 <@khenn> anyone here?
08:11 <@khenn> preaction?
08:20 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8451 /branch/WebGUI_flux/lib/WebGUI/Macro/PrevNext.pm: take advantage of lineage and simplify getNext. All tests pass
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09:33 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8452 /WebGUI/ (13 files in 8 dirs): 
09:33 < CIA-6> WebGUI: Replaced the account.options loop in the displayAccount auth methods with new
09:33 < CIA-6> WebGUI: macros for displaying deactivate account and back to site links. Another macro
09:33 < CIA-6> WebGUI: which allows text to be displayed according to whether the value passed in is
09:33 < CIA-6> WebGUI: empty or not was added to allow functionality similar to that which currently
09:33 < CIA-6> WebGUI: exists.
09:33 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8453 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/packages-7.6.4/ (2 files): committed the wrong level of the macro package.
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10:08 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8454 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Account_Inbox.pm: Updated the text of the users invitations to include verbiage explaining that anonymous registration must also be enabled in order for it to work.
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10:55 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8455 /WebGUI/ (5 files in 5 dirs): Cleaned up Friends templates.
11:00 <@preaction> good lord you're still UP?
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12:14 < CIA-6> WebGUI: translation * r8456 /translations/German/German/Asset_Thingy.pm: Update from translation server
12:14 < CIA-6> WebGUI: translation * r8457 /translations/German/German/Asset_Thingy.pm: Update from translation server
12:14 < CIA-6> WebGUI: translation * r8458 /translations/German/German/Asset_Thingy.pm: Update from translation server
12:14 < CIA-6> WebGUI: translation * r8459 /translations/German/German/Asset_Thingy.pm: Update from translation server
12:14 < CIA-6> WebGUI: translation * r8460 /translations/German/German/Asset_Thingy.pm: Update from translation server
12:30 <@preaction> woot, go germany!
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15:08 < CIA-6> WebGUI: ernesto * r8461 /WebGUI/ (docs/credits.txt lib/default.ttf): (log message trimmed)
15:08 < CIA-6> WebGUI: * The TrueType font provided for CAPTCHA and chart label generation
15:08 < CIA-6> WebGUI:  has limited support for Unicode glyph and also has a restricted
15:08 < CIA-6> WebGUI:  license that forbids modification, forbids redistribution and
15:08 < CIA-6> WebGUI:  does not provide source code for it, thus making it non free in
15:08 < CIA-6> WebGUI:  the FOSS sense. It has been replaced with the TrueType font
15:08 < CIA-6> WebGUI:  Deja Vu Sans that has a similar visual appearance, has complete
15:08 < CIA-6> WebGUI: ernesto * r8462 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/lib/default.ttf: (log message trimmed)
15:09 < CIA-6> WebGUI: * The TrueType font provided for CAPTCHA and chart label generation
15:09 < CIA-6> WebGUI:  has limited support for Unicode glyph and also has a restricted
15:09 < CIA-6> WebGUI:  license that forbids modification, forbids redistribution and
15:09 < CIA-6> WebGUI:  does not provide source code for it, thus making it non free in
15:09 < CIA-6> WebGUI:  the FOSS sense. It has been replaced with the TrueType font
15:09 < CIA-6> WebGUI:  Deja Vu Sans that has a similar visual appearance, has complete
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16:13 < John> Hi guys
16:13 <@perlmonkey2> whooohooo, RFE dy
16:13 <@perlmonkey2> day
16:13 -!- John is now known as Guest66585
16:14 <@perlmonkey2> put your red hot requests in, put your red hot requests in.
16:14 <@perlmonkey2> Karma them up and watch 'em get done.
16:14 < Guest66585> Has anybody worked with auth memcookie
16:14 < Guest66585> ?
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16:20 < SDuensin> Greetings.
16:21 <@perlmonkey2> Guest66585: you got a link to that?  memcookie?
16:21 <@perlmonkey2> SDuensin: word yo!
16:21 < SDuensin> Hey perlmonkey2 
16:24 < Guest66585> Yep, the reference link is
16:24 < Guest66585> http://authmemcookie.sourceforge.net/
16:24 < Guest66585> But I don't really know exactly how to work with it
16:30 <@perlmonkey2> Guest66585: so Apache would need to be recompiled with this module?
16:30 <@perlmonkey2> I've never heard of this.
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16:31 <@perlmonkey2> wow, I'm lazy when I won't get up and walk 2 feet to get my Apache book and instead track down the docs on their site.
16:33 < Guest66585> I'm trying to develop an authentication module to work with simpleSAMLphp (Single Sign-On) and I think auth memcookie is a great solution
16:33 < Guest66585> WebGUI is developed in perl so it's difficult make it work with php
16:33 < Guest66585> Or do you know an alternative?
16:34 <@perlmonkey2> Guest66585: I don't know why it wouldn't work.
16:34 <@perlmonkey2> reading the docs, it could work as an auth plugin.
16:35 <@perlmonkey2> But this is a fairly big project
16:35 < Guest66585> Yeah! It's difficult
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16:36 < SDuensin> Not too bad to hack up a new auth module.  Just copy an existing one and edit it.
16:36 < Guest66585> But how to do this with authmemcookie?
16:37 < Guest66585> I'm not an expert jeje
16:37 < Guest66585> Or an alternative?
16:38 <@perlmonkey2> Guest66585: well, there are a couple of ways to go about this.  Try to get a webgui dev/hacker/hanger-on interested in writing it.  Learn Perl and write it yourself.  Create and RFE, and add enough karma that it gets near the top of the list.  Or pay someone to write it for you (lots of options here).
16:38 < SDuensin> I don't even know what authmemcookie is.  But sounds like something I need to learn.  :-)
16:38 <@perlmonkey2> SDuensin: you pass coookie information to apache and then apache passes you session information if a session matches a good cookie.
16:40 < SDuensin> Interesting.  I was gonna hack something like that together myself.  Guess I need to try The Google more often.
16:40  * SDuensin wants to integrate an IMAP reader into WebGUI.
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16:57 <@rizen> all hail perlmonkey2
16:57 <@perlmonkey2> rizen: eh?
16:57 <@rizen> do you prefer not to be hailed?
16:58 <@perlmonkey2> rizen: only when I'm king for a day, which isn't for a few more months.
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17:20 <@perlmonkey2> rizen: the grahaminator
17:24 < SDuensin> Morning, rizen.
17:26 <@rizen> morning SD
17:28 < SDuensin> rizen, no email from the mothership yet.
17:28 <@rizen> huh?
17:28 < SDuensin> You said I'd get mail from someone so I could start causing damage.
17:29 <@rizen> monday
17:29 <@rizen> plus, feel free to email him: vrby@plainblack.com
17:29 < SDuensin> Ah, ok, cool.
17:29 < SDuensin> Monday is good.  :-)
17:29 <@rizen> in the meant time, fix bugs
17:30  * SDuensin is learning.
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17:44 < topsub> We installed a SQLForm.pm asset on 7.5.30 and when we are trying to do table joins we get javascript error "AjaxRequest is not defined". We are trying to select the current webgui table. Is this not allowed?
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17:50 <@perlmonkey2> topsub: j/s looking to see when the SQLForm was removed
17:51 < topsub> When this asset was isntalled doesn't seem like the Help nor the il8n directory was put into our lib folder. Would this have an effect?
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17:59 <@preaction> topsub, at best it wouldn't show certain labels, at worse it won't work at all
18:00 < topsub> lol hmm
18:00 < topsub> maybe i shoudl put those in there
18:00 < topsub> not sure why they weren't installed
18:02 < topsub> so i guess its possible that because the il8n folder isn't there that is cause the error?
18:04 <@preaction> is possible yes
18:20 < CIA-6> WebGUI: graham * r8463 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: Get CS Mail workflow doesn't commit version tags created
18:26 < topsub> I added the other i8ln and help and still get the "AjaxRequest is not defined"
18:26 < topsub> I only get the error when i select certain databases
18:27 < topsub> the ones i don't get the error shows the table dropdown list but its empty
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19:07 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8464 /WebGUI/ (7 files in 3 dirs): Deactivate macro no longer needs a template. HasValueText macro is now called If
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19:13 <+MrHairgrease> howdy!
19:14 <+MrHairgrease> how was the rfe day?
19:17 <@preaction> is! and i've been bugfixing all day
19:17 <+MrHairgrease> oh,
19:17 <+MrHairgrease> i forgot about the tz difference
19:18 <+MrHairgrease> i just came home from my non-oqapi job
19:18 <@preaction> is it at least a fun job?
19:18 <@preaction> dare i say, a GOOEY job?
19:19 <+MrHairgrease> i get to handle with dangerous chemicals and expensive equipment
19:19 <+MrHairgrease> so i'd  say yeah
19:19 <+MrHairgrease> tomorrow will be gooey time again
19:19 < nuba_> dangerous chemicals!? nice
19:19 < nuba_> you may end up growing some appendages
19:20 < nuba_> any radioactive materials too?
19:20 < nuba_> thatd be even more cooler
19:20 < nuba_> or maybe hotter..
19:21 <+MrHairgrease> no, no radioactive materials
19:22 <+MrHairgrease> which is why i still have only two eyes
19:23 <+MrHairgrease> when will the feature freeze be excatly btw? is that 00:00 chicago time or just when 'you guys get up'
19:23 <@khenn> it's whenever "tomorrow" is for you
19:24 <@khenn> so if tomorrow for you is midnight Alaska, it's still good =)
19:27 <+MrHairgrease> I was asking that to see if i could still check two things in when it's tomorrow for me, but you guys are (hopefully for you) still vast asleep. 
19:41 < rjacobsen> sduensin: good afternoon
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19:43 < rjacobsen> sduensin: i have the gallery template working awesome except for 1 minor problem.... the view album page (in internet explorer) drops the images below each other, where as in firefox it lines them up to the edge of the page and then loops
19:45 < rjacobsen> not sure how i can tell in the <tmpl_var file_loop> what number image it is on to be able to tell it to <br> at say 4 images so I can put the images in table cells
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20:37 < CIA-6> WebGUI: yung * r8465 /branch/WebGUI_Matrix2/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Adding more features to Matrix v2
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20:51 <@tavisto> rizen, you never responded to Lauralyn's follow-up questions on RFE #618.  Are there any legitimate parts to this or should I close since she was mistaken about content profiling?
20:52 <@rizen> i'l look
20:52 -!- AMH_henry [n=henry@erica.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui
20:52 <@rizen> are we talking about 618 (syndicated content asset)?
20:53 <@rizen> http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/syndicated-content-asset-make-images-in-the-downloaded-rss-feeds-available-in-the-template
20:53 <@tavisto> crap 614 sorry
20:53 <@tavisto> sheesh helps if I give you the correct #
20:55 <@rizen> i'll reply
20:55 <@tavisto> k
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22:30  * perlmonkey2 stabs Thingy in the eye
22:32 <@perlmonkey2> Am I just missing something or does the paginator take a template variable for copying items?
22:33 <@perlmonkey2> not that I can find the paginator template :)
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22:38 < npinansky> hey is there any way to make a property of an asset require a value without manually coding it?
22:56 <@preaction> you mean like not allow it to be blank?
22:56 <@preaction> or set a default?
23:02 < npinansky> yes not allowed to be blank
23:10 <@preaction> i believe it must be manually coded in processPropertiesFromFormPost
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23:16 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8466 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Account.pm: Fixed an issue where a variable was declared more than once.
23:16 < CIA-6> WebGUI: jt * r8467 /WebGUI/ (6 files in 6 dirs): 
23:16 < CIA-6> WebGUI: - rfe: Event hover detail exclusions (#8761)
23:16 < CIA-6> WebGUI: - rfe: Database Link test (#513)
23:16 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8468 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (lib/WebGUI/Macro/PrevNext.pm t/Macro/PrevNext.t): continue refactor, add more tests, fix POD
23:16 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2, do you read Slashdot?
23:16 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: yes
23:16 <+perlDreamer> you see the new wind turbine generator article today?
23:16 <@perlmonkey2> yeah
23:17 <@perlmonkey2> pretty cool, but probably not for people like me.
23:17 <+perlDreamer> Nah, not until you're a PUC
23:17 <@perlmonkey2> the cheapest I've seen home builts is about $1.50 per watt.  Commercial turbines easily break the $1 per watt barrier.
23:18 <@perlmonkey2> although if commodity prices keep dropping, maybe they'll be easily affordable by everyone soon.
23:19 <+perlDreamer> Lots of interest in green energy right now.
23:20 <+perlDreamer> And even if the cost was $3/watt for this new generator, it might pay itself off in the higher efficiency
23:20 <@perlmonkey2> If it had higher efficiency, it would be lower cost per watt :P
23:20 <+perlDreamer> hm, yeah
23:20 <+perlDreamer> no wonder they laid me off last Friday.... ;)
23:21 <@perlmonkey2> well I'm jut being pedantic as there are a billion ways to measure wattage.
23:21 <@perlmonkey2> I prefer 12mph output.
23:22 <@tavisto> wow, was looking at this RFE and realized wG doesn't have a max # of login attempts feature... that really surprises me
23:22 <+perlDreamer> why don't you submit it, tavisto?
23:23 <@perlmonkey2> tavisto: yeah, just hook your rainbow table up to WG and try away.
23:23 <@perlmonkey2> oh, but you need to know username's first.
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23:23 <@tavisto> although I'm assuming the big peeps using wG right now tie into some sort of LDAP and I believe that the account would be locked from the LDAP or AD side
23:23 <@perlmonkey2> so hmm....I guess a rainbow table is useless without a list of usernames.
23:23 <@tavisto> perlDreamer, that's the RFE
23:24 <@tavisto> I just didn't believe it when I first read the RFE... I definitely would have bet money that it was an existing feature. :) Guess I lose
23:25 <@perlmonkey2> tavisto: I don't think it is needed.  Since WG doesn't tell you if you have the correct username or not, an attacker would have to get the username and password correct.
23:26 <@tavisto> Well this is an old RFE from 2006. I'm wondering if it has any merit or if I should close it then. (#18)
23:27 <@tavisto> This person is also suggesting that owner of the account should be able to unlock the account by requesting an email to be sent to his profile email account.
23:29 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: if you are bored, I have a nut for you to crack. http://pastebin.com/d3b54c969
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23:30 <@perlmonkey2> actually anyone bored want to take a look?  http://pastebin.com/d3b54c969
23:30 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2: needs quoting
23:30 <+perlDreamer> the values need quoting
23:31 <@perlmonkey2> but they are placeholders?
23:32 <@perlmonkey2> hm, so if I'm going to quote them, how do I tell which columns are strings or not?
23:32 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2, you're right.  The values are placeholders, but the field names aren't
23:32 <@perlmonkey2> you wouldn't want to insert into a INT column "0"
23:32 <@perlmonkey2> oh
23:32 <@perlmonkey2> gotcha
23:32 <+perlDreamer> That needs to be done in the UserList, too, from the bugs I see
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23:33 <+perlDreamer> AMH_henry, still awake?
23:33 < AMH_henry> perlDreamer: yes. btw. thanx for fixing the upgrade script
23:34 <+perlDreamer> You're welcome.  I wanted to make sure that was okay with you guys.
23:34 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: eh?  UserList?
23:34 <@perlmonkey2> Bugs in my code, or in the bugs list?
23:34 <+perlDreamer> bugs list
23:34 <+perlDreamer> I thought Yung wrote UserList?
23:34 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: $hash->{$db->dbh->quote_identifier($keyName)} = $newId; was the problem.  That added an extra column.
23:35 <@perlmonkey2> ``$keyName``
23:35 <@perlmonkey2> and `$keyName` :D
23:35 <@perlmonkey2> whups
23:35 <@perlmonkey2> now after I check in about 50 things you'll be able to copy thingy data.
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23:39 <+perlDreamer> bopbop: get any postcards yet?
23:40 <@bopbop> he says four so far
23:40 <+perlDreamer> Peter and Tim got theirs out, mine got lost in a pile, so there should be at least one more on the way.
23:41 <@bopbop> cool
23:41 < AMH_henry> perlDreamer: the code is a lot better using the API. i should have done that in the first place. 
23:42 <+perlDreamer> The WebGUI API is huge, and it keeps changing and expanding.
23:43 <@perlmonkey2> I guess I should have checked with someone in charge, but I added to the Wobject API the copyCollateral method.
23:43 <@preaction> WebGUI 8 is the Eve of Destruction!
23:43 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2, in general, adding API is fine.  Especially if it can be reused.
23:43 <@preaction> collateral isn't handled by Wobject class anymore, it's best done in an OO manner
23:43 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI 9 is the port to Rakudo
23:43 <@perlmonkey2> preaction: wow, that sucks.
23:44 <@perlmonkey2> oh well, that is how Thingy does it.
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23:50 < AMH_henry> So in WebGUI 9 we can start writing assets in C++ ;)
23:51 < CIA-6> WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r8469 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/ (Wobject.pm Wobject/Thingy.pm Wobject/Survey.pm): Thingy now has a copy thing data option.
23:51 < CIA-6> WebGUI: perlmonkey2 * r8470 /WebGUI/docs/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Thingy copy thing data docs.
23:55 <+perlDreamer> If I can build a where clause that makes getLineage do the wrong thing, is that considered a bug?
23:56 <@preaction> like a broken where clause?
23:56 <+perlDreamer> no, it's all valid SQL, but getLineage will return unexpected data.
23:58 <+perlDreamer> I'll post it as a bug, and y'all can tell me how foolish I'm being there.
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00:04 <@preaction> that's weird. mysql sucks if it allows that
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00:09 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8471 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Account/Profile.pm: removed contentPosition filters as they are not needed.
00:11 <+perlDreamer> gotta go to the bank to open up an account for perlDreamer Consulting.  bbl.
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00:49 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8472 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Content/Account.pm: privileges being checked in the wrong place
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02:48 < CIA-6> WebGUI: doug * r8473 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 3 dirs): reverted FileUrl macro, added new StorageUrl macro
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03:20 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8474 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (5 files in 5 dirs): 
03:20 < CIA-6> WebGUI: Help for macro template variables.
03:20 < CIA-6> WebGUI: Template for macro, with i18n.
03:20 < CIA-6> WebGUI: Final tests for previous/next logic, and for template logic and some basic output checks.
03:20 < CIA-6> WebGUI: jt * r8475 /WebGUI/ (21 files in 6 dirs): 
03:20 < CIA-6> WebGUI: - Added a wait timeout parameter to the WAITING method, so that Spectre
03:20 < CIA-6> WebGUI:  doesn't have to check something that the workflow activity knows it will
03:21 < CIA-6> WebGUI:  have to wait on for a while.
03:21 < CIA-6> WebGUI: - Added --stop and --start aliases to spectre.pl.
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04:10 <@perlmonkey2> lot's of coming and going
04:31 <+perlDreamer> yeah, what's up with that?
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05:14  * perlDreamer switches to Daddy mode.  BBL
05:46 < CIA-6> WebGUI: yung * r8476 /branch/WebGUI_Matrix2/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Fixed some yui features in Matrix v2
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06:27 < elnino> Hi! I have a website that has about 10 different domains.  I want them all pointing to the same site. So I modified the modproxy and the modperl and it works great. Just wondering if and why I need to add it to the .conf file under "sitename"? I currently do not have it listed there. so I wonder what the setting is for.
06:56 < CIA-6> WebGUI: patspam * r8477 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (lib/WebGUI/Flux/Rule.pm t/Flux/Rule.t): Tolerate whitespace in combinedExpression
06:56 < CIA-6> WebGUI: patspam * r8478 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 
06:56 < CIA-6> WebGUI: Added a couple of failing PrevNext tests
06:56 < CIA-6> WebGUI: Added previous/next menuTitle and title templates vars for descriptive links
06:56 < CIA-6> WebGUI: patspam * r8479 /branch/WebGUI_flux/docs/upgrades/default_prev_next.wgpkg: Updated PrevNext default template to show descriptive link titles and some extra styling
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07:31 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8480 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Macro/StorageUrl.pm: wrong constructor called on WebGUI::Storage::Image
07:31 < CIA-6> WebGUI: yung * r8481 /branch/WebGUI_Matrix2/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Some code cleanup
07:31 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8482 /WebGUI/ (8 files in 6 dirs): rfe: User Profile Privacy Settings (#507) - users now have granular control of whether or not their profile fields are viewable - admin settings still apply
07:31 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r8483 /branch/WebGUI_flux/lib/WebGUI/ (Help/Macro_PrevNext.pm i18n/English/Macro_PrevNext.pm): add title template variables
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08:36 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8484 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/WaitUntil.pm: removed irritating debug messages
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10:04 < CIA-6> WebGUI: frank * r8485 /WebGUI/ (5 files in 5 dirs): Added Contributions Account Pluggin which displays assets a user has contributed to the site
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11:49 < CIA-6> WebGUI: martin * r8486 /WebGUI/etc/WebGUI.conf.original: Fixed borked defaul config file.
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12:18 < CIA-6> WebGUI: martin * r8487 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Added switch to allow for non-recurring subscriptions.
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16:42 <@perlmonkey2> As per the /. article, PB will no longer be paying employees for the time spent booting their computers.  Unfortunetly for PB, the Mac's boot in about 15 seconds, so this will average to 0 minutes unpaid.
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17:04 < SDuensin> Howdy.
17:05 < nuba_> not quite. you accrue 15 seconds in every boot
17:05 < nuba_> thats one minute every 4
17:06 < nuba_> guess about 15 minutes per month or so
17:06 < nuba_> if you reboot a lot
17:06 < nuba_> thats something
17:06 < SDuensin> But you don't have to reboot a Mac!
17:07 < nuba_> well, you can
17:11 <@perlmonkey2> heh
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17:12 < SDuensin> If I get paid for boot time, I'm going to start using my IIgs that needs six floppies to reach the desktop.
17:16 <+MrHairgrease> good luck finding a computer with a disk drive
17:16 < SDuensin> It's a IIgs!  It has *TWO*!  One for each size!
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17:29 < BartJol> I'm paid for boot time and Koen wants me to have Windows...., maybe that's why I