--- Log opened Wed Oct 01 00:00:39 2008
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01:02 <@Haarg> perlDreamer, you around?
01:05 <+perlDreamer> yup
01:05 <@Haarg> Can't coerce array into hash at upgrade_7.5.24-7.6.0.pl line 85.
01:05 <@Haarg> thoughts?
01:06 <+perlDreamer> $config->get('assets') is not an array anymore?
01:06 <+perlDreamer> it's a set of hash refs
01:06 <@Haarg> this is part of the product import fix
01:06 <@Haarg> "Repairing broken Products that were imported"
01:07 <+perlDreamer> line 85 is a blank line for me
01:07 <+perlDreamer> is your config updated/committed?
01:07 <+perlDreamer> s/config/update script/
01:07 <@Haarg> yeah
01:08 <+perlDreamer> I have that on line 91
01:08 <@Haarg> next COLLATERAL unless exists $collateral->{sku}; is the line that's failing
01:09 <+perlDreamer> COLLATERAL: foreach my $collateral (@{ $product->getAllCollateral('variantsJSON') }) {
01:09 <+perlDreamer> the collateral has to be de-refed into an array so it can be iterated over
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01:11 <+perlDreamer> I just committed a fix
01:11 <+perlDreamer> and backported it to 7.5
01:14 <@Haarg> thanks
01:14 <@Haarg> i need to spend a weekend reading through all the shop code
01:14 <+perlDreamer> You're welcome.   I should have set up a test of the upgrade.
01:15 <+perlDreamer> A suggestion.  Spend a little extra time in the PayDriver.  I couldn't figure out the multiple labels myself.
01:15 <+perlDreamer> It would be nice to brainstorm with people.
01:16 <@Haarg> looks like that upgrade bug helped my catch a bug in the forking upgrade script though
01:16 <@Haarg> no fix yet, but for some upgrade errors it doesn't notice the failure
01:17 <@Haarg> and i didn't see the error on the console either
01:17 <@Haarg> which isn't good.
01:17 <+perlDreamer> no
01:19 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7786 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.5.24-7.6.0.pl: 
01:19 < CIA-39> WebGUI: Dereference the array ref of collateral into an array so foreach
01:19 < CIA-39> WebGUI: can iterate over it.
01:19 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7787 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.5.24-7.5.25.pl: backporting upgrade script fix for array deref
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01:52 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7788 /WebGUI/sbin/upgrade.pl: get upgrade.pl to fail properly if upgrade script dies
01:56 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, did we ever finalize on a recursion depth for Macro.pm?
01:56 <@Haarg> hmm
01:56 <@Haarg> i didn't end up changing it
01:56 <@Haarg> how deep did you start running into problems?
01:56 <+perlDreamer> I don't remember.  I'll repeat the experiment.
01:58 <+perlDreamer> 32 is too big
01:58 <+perlDreamer> 16 is okay
01:58 <@Haarg> 16 sounds fine with me
01:58 <+perlDreamer> 24 is too big
01:59 <+perlDreamer> maybe we can squeeze in 20
01:59 <@Haarg> if anyone ever got up to 10 they are probably doing something wrong
01:59 <+perlDreamer> 20 works
02:00 <+perlDreamer> and if anyone uses anything as crappy as I do for production, they have earned their problems
02:00 <+perlDreamer> 20 sound good, just for margin?
02:00 <@Haarg> i suppose
02:00 <+perlDreamer> you like 16/10 better?
02:01 <@Haarg> if 24 is giving you trouble, i'm something more like 16
02:01 <+perlDreamer> 16 it is
02:01 <@Haarg> hmm
02:02 <@Haarg> keep noticing problems i want to fix before releasing
02:02 <+perlDreamer> I have a little time, if you like :)
02:03 <+perlDreamer> there's the intermittent Workflow/Activity/NotifyAboutLowStock test failures, too
02:03 <+perlDreamer> I've never been able to duplicate those
02:03 <+perlDreamer> They're somehow related to the Inbox
02:06 <@Haarg> heh, i was wondering why there were so many entries missing from the changelog
02:06 <@Haarg> looks like i only did half of what i needed to
02:14 <+perlDreamer> Shelf test is badly broken
02:16 <+perlDreamer> Asset.pm seems broken, too
02:16 <@Haarg> how so?
02:17 <+perlDreamer> Nothing can call getUrl
02:17 <@Haarg> o_O
02:17 <@Haarg> there was a pod bug causing that
02:17 <@Haarg> that i fixed
02:17 <+perlDreamer> I'm up to date
02:17 <+perlDreamer> and I saw that commit
02:18 <+perlDreamer> syntax checks okay
02:19 <+perlDreamer> but perl t/Asset/Asset.t dies
02:19 <+perlDreamer> Can't locate object method "getUrl" via package "WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Folder" at t/Asset/Asset.t line 395.
02:19 <@Haarg> 7.6?
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02:20 <+perlDreamer> 7.5
02:20 <@Haarg> maybe that fix needs a backport then
02:21 <+perlDreamer> I'll track it down
02:22 <+perlDreamer> that double =cut doesn't exist in 7.5
02:23 <+perlDreamer> I'll run the syntax check test to see if it helps
02:26 <+perlDreamer> found it
02:26 <+perlDreamer> I was split between two branches
02:30 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7789 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/t/templateChecker.t: Add test to make sure that default templates do not contain bad gateway macros.
02:30 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7790 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (3 files in 3 dirs): backporting product import csv file format fix
02:30 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7791 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Macro.pm: reset recursion depth on macros to 16
02:30 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7792 /WebGUI/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt: merge 7.5.22-7.5.24 changelog entries
02:30 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7793 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/t/ (2 files in 2 dirs): continue backporting Shelf tests for product import
02:30 < CIA-39> WebGUI: jt * r7794 /releases/WebGUI_7.6.0: Release 7.6.0
02:30 < CIA-39> WebGUI: jt * r7795 /releases/WebGUI_7.6.0-beta: Release 7.6.0-beta
02:30 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7796 /releases/WebGUI_7.6.0: erroneous tag
02:30 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7797 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): preparing for 7.6.1 dev
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03:02 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7798 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm: backport POD fix for getUrl
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03:17 < SDuensin> Oooo!  Just got the 7.6.0 beta mail.  New toys!
03:19 <@rizen> mesa likey new toys
03:22 < elnino> what's the different between package and prototype, other than you can import and export packages.  as far as to the content manager, packages are under packages and prototypes are under the "new contnet" menu. Other than that, are there any other differences I'm missing?
03:25 <@preaction> packages are a lineage, they can contain more than one asset
03:25 <@preaction> prototypes are just one asset
03:26 <@rizen> and packages are exact copies as you deploy them
03:26 <@rizen> a prototype sets up "defaults" but lets you change them as you create the prototype
03:26 <@rizen> as you create the asset from the prototype i mean
03:26 <@preaction> so, say you need to use a different default Article template. you can set up a prototype and (if you want) remove the original from the New Content menu
03:32 < patspam> packages are the best thing since sliced bread
03:33 < patspam> they make syncing changes between dev and production servers a breeze
03:36 < elnino> oh.. I use packages as a template. Content managers add a pagelayout that has been a defined as a package, and then they make their modifications. So we have "about 200" pages built from a package. But it sounds like that isn't what it was meant for.
03:37 < elnino> I'll write a wiki.  =)
03:41 <@preaction> what it was meant for is of no concern. 
03:41 <@preaction> the best things in webgui are used for things they weren't meant for
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04:01 < elnino> new wiki: http://www.plainblack.com/community-wiki/packages-vs-prototypes - Thanks guys!
04:01 < elnino> I also did this too from yesterdays conversation: http://www.plainblack.com/community-wiki/subscription-overview
04:04 < elnino> preaction, rizen feel free to modify if I misrepresented anything you guys said on these topics.
04:07 < elnino> and patspam =)
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05:00 < patspam> elnino: I was disappointed you didn't put the bit in about sliced bread
05:01 <@rizen> me too
05:06 < patspam> whose idea was packages? I've often thought i want to buy them a beer at the next WUC
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05:30 <@rizen> me
05:31 <@rizen> actually, i take that back...it was a guy i used to work with back when i started webgui named Michael Blakeslee
05:31 <@rizen> not the idea to be able to copy packages between sites though
05:31 <@rizen> that was me
05:31 <@rizen> his idea was being able to have a package on a site to be able to redeploy it over and over again
05:32 <@rizen> and i felt we needed a way to be able to sync content between sites
05:32 <@rizen> so packages just seemed to be the ideal place to stick that feature in
05:32 <@rizen> rather than creating yet another switch
05:33 <@rizen> these days i'm not sure which side of packages are used more often
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06:06 < patspam> i think i'll owe you a whole slab of beer by the the next wuc in that case :)
06:07 <@rizen> i don't think so
06:07 <@rizen> i think by next wuc i'll owe you a whole slab of beer
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06:07 < patspam> hah we can get drunk together then. but seriously, packages save me SO much time
06:07 <@rizen> if you keep contributing and actually get the enhancements to thingy and other things done
06:07 <@rizen> add the crypto
06:08 <@rizen> add the privileges thing
06:08 <@rizen> you'll be contributor of the year
06:08 < patspam> hah if i actually finish anything =p
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06:08 < patspam> does the crypto thing interest you though?
06:08 <@rizen> it has promise
06:08 <@rizen> and i'm certain that some of our government clients would be interested
06:09 <@rizen> we've also recently started doing some low level medical stuff
06:09 <@rizen> nothing that includes personal info
06:09 <@rizen> but eventually, if we go further then we could use it there as well
06:09 < patspam> ah great. I'll definitely go ahead with building a prototype system then
06:09 <@rizen> i've been avoiding posting to your thread cuz i wanted to see what other people said first
06:10 < patspam> yeah that's ok, the most important thing to know is that you don't think it's a complete waste of time
06:10 <@rizen> btw...would you be interested in starting some sort of WebGUI Oz group like the Dutch guys did for holland?
06:10 < patspam> absolutely
06:10 < patspam> if there are enough numbers..?
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06:11 <@rizen> encryption isn't a waste of time...i'm just not a fan of having the crypto in the hands of humans
06:11 <@rizen> humans are falable
06:11 < patspam> yeah humans suck
06:12 < patspam> they mess everything up for the rest of us
06:12 <@rizen> there are about six WebGUI related companies in Oz that i'm aware of
06:12 < patspam> oh wow, cool i didn't realise there were that many
06:12 <@rizen> but i havent' been in contact with any of them for a while
06:12 <@rizen> i'll see what i can do to dig them out and get you guys together
06:12 < patspam> I'd be more than happy to coordinate stuff
06:13 <@rizen> there's one in sydney that has something to do with building legal sites
06:13 <@rizen> if you turn on passive profiling you'll see a warning message pop up
06:13 <@rizen> that's because of those guys
06:13 < patspam> heh yeah i saw that at the WUC!
06:13 <@rizen> apparently passive profiling is illegal in oz
06:14 < patspam> I was sceptical about that, but i guess if they're into the legal stuff then they'd know better than me
06:14 < patspam> i thought you just had to be up front about how much info you're collecting
06:14 <@rizen> well maybe that's it 
06:15 <@rizen> but the warning is just about making sure you know your local laws
06:15 <@rizen> before using it
06:15 <@rizen> anyway, they are the ones that told ust o put it in there
06:16 <@rizen> Radix-wrk is from Perth
06:16 <@rizen> so he's another aussie
06:16 < patspam> yeah he's the only one i know about
06:16 <@rizen> he came to the wuc a couple years back
06:16 <@rizen> the problem is that oz is so big (kind of like the states) that it may not be possible for you to put a group together
06:17 <@rizen> at least not a physical group like they do in the netherlands
06:17 < patspam> yeah the tyranny of distance..
06:18 <@rizen> SGE is also from there
06:18 <@rizen> http://www.sge.com/
06:18 < patspam> it's not so bad in the states because your population is so much greater
06:18 <@rizen> i can't think of anybody's name from there that i know off the top of my head
06:18 <@rizen> but i've talked to them a couple times
06:18 < patspam> heh my old company built the sge website
06:19 <@rizen> see you guys are already connected!
06:19 < patspam> hah yeah, except some links are better left broken!
06:19 <@rizen> you can't lead a group and think that way
06:19 < patspam> heh yeah, I'm just joking
06:19 <@rizen> it's about finding commonalities and focusing on those
06:20 <@rizen> otherwise you end up like our president
06:20 < patspam> really rich and in charge of the most powerful country in the world?
06:20 <@rizen> the law group is: http://www.lawsocietywa.asn.au/
06:21 <@rizen> no: a total jackass that everybody hates, and that can't put together coherent sentences to save his life
06:22 <@rizen> email for the guy that put that site together is: terminus@terminus.net.au
06:22 < patspam> so the dutch group, do they have any overriding goals? or is it just to help people connect?
06:23 <@rizen> the main focus is to promote webgui as a business platform in holland
06:23 <@rizen> but it's also to bring together a group of webgui professionals to share ideas, and resources
06:24 <@rizen> because we're all a bunch of small companies (in the webgui community) so we need to get help from each other from time to time
06:24 < patspam> yeah for sure
06:25 <@rizen> i'll try to get you the contact information for some other australian companies using webgui...just can't remember them off the top of my head right now
06:25 <@rizen> but you have four so far
06:25 <@rizen> so you could get started
06:26 <@rizen> four is more than the dutch team started with
06:26 <@rizen> originally there were only two dutch companies involved in wossa
06:26 <@rizen> now i think there are 7
06:26 <@rizen> granted that 4 of them are either procolix or offshoots from procolix
06:27 < patspam> yeah i think it's a great idea, I'll give it a shot
06:29 <@rizen> the terminus guy is in perth with radix
06:29 <@rizen> where are you again?
06:31 < patspam> Melbourne
06:32 <@rizen> yikes
06:32 <@rizen> holy other side of the country batman
06:32 < patspam> heh yeah, well, everything is far away from Perth
06:33 < diakopter> hee
06:33 < patspam> most geographically isolated city in the world i think?
06:33 <@rizen> please...
06:33 <@rizen> Darwin is more isolated
06:34 < patspam> nah you've got Alice Springs etc.. nearby
06:34 <@rizen> I've always wanted to go to Darwin...mainly cuz it's name is Darwin
06:35 < patspam> it's awesome
06:35 < patspam> especially if you like tropical weather
06:35 <@rizen> one of these days i've got to get back to australia
06:35 <@rizen> only been there once, and it was great
06:35 < patspam> WUC next year man :)
06:36 <@rizen> yeah, if we want only 2 of us to show up. =)
06:36 <@rizen> as much as i like to think of webgui as a worldwide phenomena, it's mainly a U.S. thing. =)
06:38 <@rizen> i take it back, i don't want to go back to australia
06:38 <@rizen> i've been to sydney and katoomba
06:39 <@rizen> the rest of the country can't be that much different. =)
06:40 <@rizen> that's a little like saying you've been to Madison and Chicago, so there's nothing to see in New York or San Franciso
06:40 <@rizen> co
06:40 < patspam> heh.. it's definitely not as diverse here as the states or europe though
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06:42 <@rizen> i think that you guys don't use very much spice in your cooking
06:42 <@rizen> the only places i liked to eat while i was there were asian
06:43 <@rizen> maybe i just kept going to the wrong places
06:56 <+Radix-wrk> unfortunately, we have far too many brits here who don't like spices.. so the majority eat plain food. Personally I love spices in my food.. hence why I'm engaged to a Chinese/Malaysian woman ;)
06:57 <@rizen> ah that's what it is, the british influence
06:57 <+Radix-wrk> meat and potatoes
06:58 <+Radix-wrk> and lots of salt
06:58 <@rizen> even meat and potatoes can have spices
06:58 <@preaction> chives, oregano, laury's
06:58 <+Radix-wrk> yeah, but it's amazing how many of them don't use em
07:05 <+Radix-wrk> speaking of which.. I have some of my special homemade pizza in the fridge and it's lunchtime :)
07:05 <@preaction> nice
07:06 <+Radix-wrk> best pizza base ever = 4 cups of flour, pinch of salt, lots of mixed herbs, cajun spices and one bottle of beer - mix it all up and makes 3 pizza bases
07:07 <+Radix-wrk> oh.. by one bottle I mean 375ml - your typical can here
07:08 <@preaction> hand-tossed?
07:08 <@preaction> or just stretch on a baking sheet?
07:13 <+Radix-wrk> mix and knead.. but shouldn't need much needing
07:13 <+Radix-wrk> then divide into three and roll it out as flat as you can on a pizza tray
07:13 <@rizen> recipe for webgui pizza?
07:13 <@rizen> perhaps it should be in the wiki +0
07:13 <+Radix-wrk> I made a couple of bacon and potato pizza's, and a prawn and coriander pizza last night.. delicious
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08:16 < Mech4221> Umm - are the webgui books real books ? or e-books ?  and if real paper - anyone know how long shipping takes ?
08:18 <@rizen> real books
08:18 <@rizen> shipping usually takes about a week because they are print on demand
08:19 <@rizen> however, you can also email info@plainblack.com to find out what books we have in stock (cuz we keep some)
08:19 <@rizen> and those can be expressed to you
08:21 < Mech4221> rizen: Umm - probably the developers guide and the template guide ...
08:22 < Mech4221> rizen: maybe the others if we decide to implement with webgui
08:22 <@rizen> i don't know what we have in stock
08:22 <@rizen> that's why i'm saying email info
08:22 < Mech4221> rizen: LOL - sorry
08:22 < Mech4221> rizen; are the on-line docs enough to get a 'feel' for developing with webgui ?
08:22 <@rizen> we keep a very limited number of books on hand
08:22 <@rizen> online docs?
08:23 <@rizen> you mean the wiki?
08:23 <@rizen> and the pod?
08:23 < Mech4221> yeah - I thought I saw some 'tutorial' type info on the website...
08:23 < Mech4221> though I've looked at so many, I might be confusing it with something else
08:23 <@rizen> it really depends upon how motivated you are and if you need a complete reference 
08:23 <@rizen> the books that we write are certainly not complete, but they are the closest thing to complete there is
08:24 <@rizen> the free docs are very good, but they are mostly community maintained, so not nearly as complete as our books
08:24 < Mech4221> I just need to do a sort of 'bake off' - maybe develop a 'content type' - recreate our template/theme, etc. 
08:24 <@rizen> total free documentation is somewhere around 400 pages
08:25 < Mech4221> ahh - that should be plenty then :-)
08:25 <@rizen> total books (paid docs) is around 1300 pages
08:25 <@rizen> 400 pages may sound like a lot, but keep in mind that WebGUI is an absolutely gigantic system
08:26 < Mech4221> rizen: yeah - I'm hoping I won't have to cover all 1500 to start out with :-) 
08:26 < Mech4221> rizen: yeah - I was rather surprised to see SVN installed as part of wre - is that for versioning content or something ?
08:27 <@rizen> that's there fore WDK 
08:27 <@rizen> WDK is the WebGUI Development Kit
08:27 <@rizen> which is a special version of the WRE
08:27 <@rizen> and it's currently just an alpha features that we're testing out
08:27 < Mech4221> ahh yes, I did install that as well
08:27 <@rizen> webgui has it's own versioning system and doesn't need subversion
08:28 <@rizen> but our goal was to give webgui developers the ability to set up their own subversion repositories with little to no trouble
08:28 < Mech4221> ahh - nice :-)
08:28 <@rizen> however, subversion will likely be removed from the wdk in the future, because we've gotten feedback that most developers don't care about that...they already have their own repos set up
08:29 < Mech4221> yeah - personally,  I prefer mercurial ...
08:29 < Mech4221> and that neon lib causes build issues on 64 bit platforms
08:29 <@rizen> yeah and a lot of people like git these days
08:30 <@rizen> so subversion will probably go away...and like you say, neon and swig and a bunch of that other stuff you need for subversion is all a pain to get built
08:30 <@rizen> even on 32 bit systems
08:31 < Mech4221> yeah - there's a lot of activity in source control lately - git, darcs, monotone, bazaar...  seems like they've all gotten pretty good lately.
08:31 <@rizen> and a lot of them are starting to offer hosted solutions
08:31 <@rizen> which makes it even easier to use them
08:31 <@rizen> and provides even less utility for us to include it in the wdk
08:32 < Mech4221> rizen: can you think of any special features/weak area's I should look at during the eval ?
08:32 < Mech4221> rizen: anything your especially proud of or find especially useful ?
08:34 <@rizen> it would help to know what you plan on using webgui for
08:34 <@rizen> as i said, it's a big system
08:35 <@rizen> in general, i'd say that you need to understand that WebGUI doesn't try to be the "best" in any one subject area. instead, it tries to give you the 70%-80% of each subject area that you are likely to use
08:35 < Mech4221> umm - mostly blogging, some light e-commerce (classifieds/job listings), and a subscription area for 'members'...
08:36 <@rizen> there are a lot of solutions out there that try to give you every feature you could possibly need in a particular vertical  (like wikis, or blogs, or photo galleries, or forums, or whatever)
08:36 <@rizen> webgui instead tries to give you a little of everything, because most people need a little of everything
08:37 <@rizen> well for blogging you want to take a look at the Collaboration System. It may be a bit confusing at first, but it is hella powerful.
08:37 <@rizen> especially it's ability to let you email in blog posts
08:37 < Mech4221> ohh - I hadn't seen that yet...
08:38 <@rizen> there's a subscription asset that will let you sell access to restricted areas of the site
08:38 <@rizen> so that's going to cover you there
08:38 < Mech4221> very nice :-)
08:38 <@rizen> we don't really have a classifieds or job listings system...but the collaboration system has templates for both of those so you can simulate them
08:39 < Mech4221> I was also pretty pleased with the performance...  Even 'outta the box' - it out performs Plone on the same configuration
08:39 <@rizen> however, you won't be able to sell posting to them
08:39 <@rizen> at least individual posts
08:39 <@rizen> instead you set up a subscription
08:39 <@rizen> and once somebody has the subscription, they can post all they want during their subscription period
08:40 <@rizen> webgui runs pretty damn fast with the default configuration...but there are lots of tuning tricks you can do to make it even faster
08:41 <@rizen> you just have to learn your usage patterns and then you can really make it sing
08:42 <@rizen> to go back to your question about what i'm proud of...that changes with each new release
08:42 <@rizen> right now i'm thinking about 7.6 stuff cuz that's what we're working on
08:42 <@rizen> but you're probably using 7.4 or 7.5
08:42 <@rizen> in 7.5 i really like our new photo gallery asset
08:43 <@rizen> and we just rewrote the commerce underpinnings
08:43 <@rizen> so i'm happy about that
08:43 <@rizen> but the commerce stuff will get even better over time now that we have a solid foundation to build from
08:44 < Mech4221> wow - sounds like a lot of cool stuff...
08:44 < Mech4221> I'd better get to it, and start poking around :-)
08:45 <@rizen> i'm heading to bed. good luck in your eval.
08:45 < Mech4221> thanks again for all the info. :-)
08:45 < Mech4221> g'nite :-)
08:45 <@rizen> oh, and feel free to send an email to info@plainblack.com to set up a webinar if want to have someone do a live demo for you
08:46 < Mech4221> oh great!  Didn't know you offered those....
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16:07 < SDuensin> Howdy.
16:11 < BartJol> goodday
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16:35 < carogra1> morning/afternoon
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16:36 < carogra1> with 7.5.22 has the menu title stopped automatically inheriting the value of the title in assets?
16:37 < carogra1> I used to be able to enter the title of an asset skip menu title and go straight to URL, I could even simply delete the value in a menu title field and save, the title would automatically pop into menu title box
16:37 < carogra1> no longer seems to be the case?
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16:56 <@rizen> carogra1: try it on demo.plainblack.com, if it's not doing that then it's a bg
16:56 <@rizen> bug
16:56 <@rizen> however, if it's working on demo, then it must be a configuration issue on your site, and you can put in a support request
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17:16 < estiven> Hello
17:16 < estiven> I need to buy hardware for a new proyect
17:17 < estiven> and i need to know how many users i can have with that configuration..
17:17 < estiven> the idea is use WebGui...
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17:23 <@perlmonkey2> estiven: What type of site is it?  Will the users be using the site 8 hard hours a day or casually over 24?
17:25 <@perlmonkey2> Also, how much content will be on the site?  Will it be 50GB of hosted content, or 50MB of text and forums?
17:25 < estiven> the site is allways 24 hours online...
17:25 < estiven> the site is for a new community....
17:26 < estiven> the idea use a NAS for the storage...
17:26 < estiven> my problen is't the storage....
17:27 < estiven> my problen is with the performance..
17:28 < estiven> i don'n know whit who hardware i can have who many users...
17:28 <@preaction> a decent dual-core processor and 4 gigs of ram should serve you until you start breaking the 10,000 users mark
17:30 < estiven> mm, and who many current conected users?
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17:44 <@perlmonkey2> estiven: Think of pages served per second.
17:44 <@perlmonkey2> How pages do you need to serve per second?
17:44 <@perlmonkey2> 1?  10? 100?
17:47 <@perlmonkey2> The last test I did I could serve 2 pages of dynamic content per second on an old P4 with 512 MB of ram with WG.  Cached/static content would be served much faster.  What I'm saying is on a dedicated machine, you would need a rather large body of users before hardware becomes an issue.  Bandwidth will be a much larger issue and if you are paying for the required bandwidth, hardware costs will be small in comparison.
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17:51 <@preaction> hardware is cheap these days, i'd buy the fastest one you can afford and benchmark it
17:51 <@preaction> until you actually test, you'll never know how many users you can have really
17:52 <@perlmonkey2> I just replaced m y study light with a "ecosmart" CFI which uses 14W and is a 60W equiv, and only costs $1.10 per bulb.  They were so cheap I thought they would suck, but are the best CFI's I've ever seen (nice warm glow but not missing the blue light that's lack would put you to sleep), and by far the cheapest.  And the 75W it replaced means my lappy is now running for free :D
17:53 <@preaction> nice
17:54 < topsub> lol
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18:02 < estiven> Ok, thanks
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18:28 < bartjol> hee, the search functiopn doesn't give me anything on webgui.org
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18:29 < bartjol> content area is just white
18:29 < bartjol> lets report a bug
18:34 < bartjol> and reported..
18:49 < bartjol> perlDreamer: I got a new typo for you
18:49 < bartjol> more will follow prolly
18:50 <+perlDreamer> bring it on bartjol
18:52 < bartjol> it's in the bug page
18:52 < bartjol> collecting karma...
18:53 < bartjol> that's a new task that Koen assigned to me
18:53 < bartjol> :)
18:53 <+perlDreamer> and what does Koen want with your new karma?
18:57 < bartjol> dunno exactly
18:57 < bartjol> new world order
18:58 < bartjol> I think he wants me to have status, other than gained by large amounts of beer
18:58 <+perlDreamer> How is Mrs. Koen doing?
18:58 <+perlDreamer> Wir sind die Frau Koen?
18:58 <+perlDreamer> Como esta' la Senora Koen?
18:59 <+perlDreamer> I think that German one is wrong
19:00 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7799 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_EventManagementSystem.pm: fix i18n typo
19:00 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7800 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (9 files): Update from translation server
19:06 < bartjol> oh theu're ok
19:07 < bartjol> the German means We are misses Koen
19:07 <+perlDreamer> that would be a problem
19:07 <+perlDreamer> a BIG problem
19:07 <@perlmonkey2> perlDreamer is Mrs. Koen?  That is strange.
19:07 < bartjol> Koen wasn't feeling particularly well today
19:07 < bartjol> like my yping
19:08 < bartjol> typing
19:08 < bartjol> as far as I know, Tessa's finre
19:09 < bartjol> but it's getting beer time
19:11 <+perlDreamer> I don't see anymore i18n typos
19:13 < bartjol> not yet
19:13 < bartjol> they will come, believe me
19:13 < topsub> Has anyone had to maintain a product site  along with a staging server, while the production server is  being update with content, making code changes to the staging server and push your changings to production and not overwrite anything?
19:13 < topsub> First thought was db replication, but seems that coudl lead to trouble
19:14 < topsub> any change made to production pushed into staging database
19:16 < bartjol> well bye
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19:31 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7801 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (3 files in 3 dirs): backport buying EMSBadge when none are available fix from HEAD
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19:41 <@preaction> topsub, we do this a lot. we don't make changes to the dev database, and we sync dev with production regularly
19:42 <@preaction> we make scripts to do the migrations / db changes that are necessary, testing them on the dev/staging
19:43 < topsub> How do you keep track of the changes you do to stagings so you know what to push to production?
19:43 < topsub> version tag?
19:46 < topsub> We have a site going live that will get a ton of updates to production, but we need to keep doing dev work on staging.  We just trying to figure out the best way to handle pushing the changes without overwriting data thats new from production
19:47 <@preaction> packages?
19:49 < topsub> Does your scripts make use of the version tags?
19:49 < topsub> Any work that can be done under version tags go under a certain version tag then push everything from that version tag to production
19:52 <@preaction> no, we just use packages usually
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21:40 < topsub> preaction, just got back.. ah so you create everything under a folder or something and then package it up and reimport it on production
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22:05 <+perlDreamer> preaction: http://www.linux.com/feature/148751
22:05 <+perlDreamer> OpenGoo
22:07 <@preaction> sounds like a good candidate for a web services company
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22:35 < topsub> Is there a bug with the DateTime form control?  I have added few extra fields to the EventManagementSystem.pm definition and i change the date but it stays "1969-12-31 18:00:00"
22:37 <@preaction> are you upgraded to the latest version? yes, i think there are some issues with that form control
22:37 <@preaction> did you set a default value?
22:37 < topsub> nope, no default value in there
22:38 < topsub> we are on version 	7.5.24-stable
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22:38 < topsub> it does say "Latest version available:	7.6.0"
22:39 < wgGuest34> hey guys, is anyone there?
22:39 <@preaction> yeah, ignore that for now
22:39 < topsub> So there is an issue with the form control?
22:39 <@preaction> topsub, set a default value of "2008-01-01 00:00:00" or something, see if that helps
22:39 < wgGuest34> can anyone help me with some questions i have about webgui and yui
22:39 <@preaction> i think it's an issue with the form control, yes
22:39 <@preaction> wgGuest34, don't ask to ask, just ask
22:40 < topsub> Would that explain tho when i try to change the value it stay that 1969 one tho?
22:40 <@preaction> topsub, yes. it's got an epoch time, but it's treating it as a mysql time
22:40 < wgGuest34> i work for a non-profit organization that makes websites for other non-profits.. we use webgui so that the end user can make changes to their sites without us
22:40 <@preaction> and that would be considered a bug imho
22:40 < topsub> k, thanks.. will try that
22:41 < wgGuest34> the sys admin here wants us to find a way to integrate more javascript into the sites to make the look nicer
22:41 < wgGuest34> so I'm kind of stuck, I don't know how to go about this, I want to use YUI because they have so many little features
22:41 < wgGuest34> but am not sure how to integrate the two..
22:42 <@preaction> yui is already included with webgui
22:42 < wgGuest34> I have been reading in the forums but am kind of lost.. any ideas?
22:42 < wgGuest34> Yes, I saw that.. but how can I use all the features for example drag and drop..
22:42 <@preaction> it's in the extras folder. you can get at them using the ^Extras(); macro
22:42 < wgGuest34> do you know of a tutorial somewhere that could help me through that.. I am really new to webgui
22:43 < wgGuest34> learning the basics still.. and can't find much help..
22:43 <@preaction> i did a presentation at the '07 WUC about YUI and WebGUI, but that's not free (from what I know)
22:44 < topsub> The YUI dosc should help you with learning how to use YUI
22:44 <@preaction> you might look into some of the WebGUI design documents, they go through how to edit templates and such
22:44 <@preaction> that's how you'd have to add the javascript
22:44 < wgGuest34> I have played around with YUI and have been able to use it without webgui.. I just can't figure out how to make things work with webgui
22:45 < topsub> Are you not able to figure out how to include that javascript files into the webgui templates?
22:45 < wgGuest34> yes
22:45 < topsub> so you need tolearn how to edit the style templates for example and include the YUI scripts into it so its site wide
22:45 < wgGuest34> I was just wondering if any of you knew where I could find a tutorial or example on how to do such tasks
22:46 < wgGuest34> Okay.. I will work on that, I have been playing with the templates
22:46 <@preaction> wgGuest34, look in the Gallery templates or the Thingy templates, YUI is used in there quite a bit
22:46 < wgGuest34> I am used to make websites by hand coding and all the splitting up of the templates has been tripping me out
22:46 <@preaction> the Gallery slideshow and thumbnails page
22:47 < topsub> the event management system does ajax request with YUI you could look at its templates for examples
22:47 < topsub> Parses JSON objects and such
22:47 <@preaction> otherwise, honestly, you could be using Yahoo's servers to get the YUI files
22:47 <@preaction> might be easier
22:47 <@preaction> i've heard that soon, by default, WebGUI will be doing just that
22:48 < topsub> what parsing JSON objects?
22:49 <@preaction> no, getting the YUI files from http://yahooapis.com
22:49 < wgGuest34> okay guys, thanks for the help!
22:49 < topsub> Ah instead of putting them in the core?
22:49 < wgGuest34> I'm going to look into those things and see if I can get something going!
22:49 < CIA-39> WebGUI: chrisn * r7802 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): 
22:49 < CIA-39> WebGUI: changed: the list of extensions for the export system to pass through
22:49 < CIA-39> WebGUI: unmodified has been moved to the configuration file under the
22:49 < CIA-39> WebGUI: "exportBianryExtensions" field.
22:51 < topsub> When i added the default value for the DateTime form control i get an error now http://pastebin.com/m58be102d
22:51 < topsub> Guess i need post bug report about it..
22:55 < wgGuest34> is event management a part of the calendar function?
22:55 <@Haarg> no
22:56 <@Haarg> event management has its own asset for management and ties in the the shop
22:57 < wgGuest34> k, thanks, im going to ask someone in the office to help me find that
23:02 < topsub> Okay so i switched it to just Date and i am seeing the same results.
23:02 < topsub> Is Date form control bugged to?
23:02 <@preaction> most likely yes, they all use the same basic code (copypasta)
23:13 < dionak> mmm, pasta
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23:46 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, can I backport your SIG WARN fixes to 7.5?
23:46 <@Haarg> if you want to
23:46 <+perlDreamer> Now that there are test reports per night, the less line noise the better
23:46 <@Haarg> yeah
23:47 <+perlDreamer> Did I break the "no commit" rule while you were releasing 7.6 last night?
23:47 <@preaction> is the SIG warn fix in sbin/testCodebase.pl or in the test file itself?
23:47 <@Haarg> nah, i was fixing stuff, and those were good things to get in as well
23:47 <+perlDreamer> preaction, test file itself
23:47 <@Haarg> in the test itself
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23:48 <@Haarg> it's only for some small cases where the warnings are expected
23:48 <@Haarg> my UNIVERSAL::isa just has "package UNIVERSAL::isa; 1;" now
23:49 <@Haarg> so i don't have to deal with whatever bug is causing all those false positives
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23:58 <+perlDreamer> has anyone tried to generate a dependency tree for WebGUI CPAN modules?
23:58 <+perlDreamer> To see just how many we use?
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23:59 <@Haarg> no, but i have been thinking about doing something like that
--- Day changed Thu Oct 02 2008
00:00 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7803 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/t/ (Group.t SQL.t Macro/SQL.t): backport the fix for quieting test output due to warns
00:05 <+perlDreamer> I'd like to use Clone for some tests
00:05 <+perlDreamer> but I don't want to inject another test dependency
00:06 <+perlDreamer> especially because I'm pretty sure we already require it
00:06 <+perlDreamer> through some other modules
00:06 <@Haarg> well, you can check the wre
00:06 <@Haarg> if it's in there you're probably fine
00:06 <+perlDreamer> where is the src kept in SVN?
00:07 <@Haarg> https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/wrebuild/build.sh
00:08 <@Haarg> Clone-0.20
00:09 <+perlDreamer> all right!
00:11 <@Haarg> what is the difference between Clone::clone and Storable::dclone?
00:11 <+perlDreamer> It's much faster
00:12 <+perlDreamer> http://cpanratings.perl.org/dist/Clone
00:45 <+perlDreamer> 7.5's template.t will pass tomorrow
00:45  * perlDreamer looks at assetExportHtml with trepidation
00:46 <@Haarg> that one shouldn't be too big of a deal
00:47 <+perlDreamer> do you think we could convince rizen to implement a pre-commit hook for syntax checks of perl  modules?
00:47 <@Haarg> possibly
00:48 <@Haarg> ideally they would be clean of compile warnings as well
00:48 <+perlDreamer> ha
00:48 <@Haarg> not warnings in general
00:49 <+perlDreamer> You've run perl -wc on most of the code.  It's not compile warn clean
00:49 <@Haarg> yeah
00:49 <@Haarg> the main thing that comes up are circular requirements
00:49 <+perlDreamer> it could be made compile warn clean, but it would take some work
00:49 <@Haarg> anything else is pretty simple to fix
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01:00 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7804 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/upgrades/packages-7.5.25/ (8 files): backport templates with bad gateway macros
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01:26 <@Haarg> perlDreamer, getting it to be warning clear is actually pretty easy.  the only warnings i'm seeing are some my variable masking issues.
01:28 <@Haarg> the test should probably be changed a bit.  it's probably a bit slower right now than it needs to be.
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01:32 <@Haarg> oh wow
01:32 <@Haarg> i love Matrix.pm line 791
01:42 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, I guess that's why Matrix2 was started :)
01:43 <+perlDreamer> I just hope it turns out better than UserList
01:43 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, which test are you talking about, being slow?
01:43 <@Haarg> compile test
01:44 <@Haarg> i just fixed all the real compile warnings
01:44 <+perlDreamer> using Module::Find instead of File::Find?
01:44 <@Haarg> no, although that may be worth doing
01:45 <@Haarg> module find would search outside the WebGUI/lib folder though
01:45 <@Haarg> so maybe not
01:45 <@Haarg> if you just add -w to the compile check, you get lots of redefinition warnings
01:46 <@Haarg> that's because for example Post does use ::Thread
01:46 <@Haarg> and Thread does use ::Post
01:46 <+perlDreamer> circular dependencies
01:46 <@Haarg> but when it gets to that, Post isn't in %INC yet
01:47 <@Haarg> if instead you do: perl -we'require "WebGUI/Asset/Post.pm";'
01:47 <@Haarg> it is basically the same test
01:47 <@Haarg> but it loads post into %INC
01:47 <@Haarg> that's actually a run test instead of a compile test, but for modules that is essentially the same thing
01:48 <@Haarg> the other option is having the test just require them directly
01:48 <@Haarg> that would speed it up a ton
01:48 <+perlDreamer> and do the require inside of an eval so that it doesn't puke
01:48 <@Haarg> but there is some value in testing them in isolation
01:49 <@Haarg> if they used a external module without loading it first for example
01:50 <@Haarg> perl -w -mWebGUI::Asset::Post -e';' might be another way to go if we wanted to work with class names instead of file names
01:51 <+perlDreamer> -e 1
01:51 <@Haarg> yeah, that's probably better
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02:10 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7805 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (6 files in 4 dirs): clear out some compile warnings
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04:58 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7806 /translations/Spanish/Spanish/ (Workflow_Activity_NotifyAboutLowStock.pm Shop.pm): Update from translation server
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08:21 < elnino> is there a way to subscribe other people to your thread on a cs system?
08:25 < elnino> I'm thinking not. I'll write an RFE. good night everyone!
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10:54 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7807 /translations/German/German/ (Asset_WikiPage.pm Workflow_Activity_NotifyAboutLowStock.pm): Update from translation server
11:14 < patspam> Haarg: (if you're awake) how's that git repo coming along?
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16:50 < CIA-39> WebGUI: frank * r7809 /experimental/HelpDesk/ (6 files in 5 dirs): Migration to plainblack.com working - needs a bit more testing as I don't think uploads came over properly
16:50 < CIA-39> WebGUI: frank * r7810 /experimental/HelpDesk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): forgot to commit migration script and some new files
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17:15 <@rizen> Top of the morning to you, largest group i've ever seen on IRC this early in the morning.
17:16 <+MrHairgrease> well, that depends on where you are of course...
17:16 <@rizen> you are forgetting
17:16 <@rizen> everything is relative to me
17:17 <@rizen> we no longer measure time by GMT or UTC
17:17 <@rizen> it's now just JT
17:17 <+MrHairgrease> i see
17:17 < SDuensin> Greetings.
17:17 <@rizen> which makes time calculations even more interesting, since i can move between time zones
17:18 <+MrHairgrease> well, if you just eliminate the whole tz crap, I'll thank you for it
17:19 <+MrHairgrease> and while you're at it, please fmake sure that utf-8 is the only char set
17:19 <+MrHairgrease> so, how many JT is it over here then?
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17:20 <@rizen> it's JT -0
17:21 <@rizen> but relative time that makes it 9am
17:21 <@rizen> =)
17:21 <+MrHairgrease> minus zero
17:21 <@rizen> ok, i'll be willing to give up JT time to get rid of both time zones and daylight savings time adjustments
17:22 <@rizen> cuz both are absolutely stupid
17:22 <+MrHairgrease> well, tz's help to define things like morning and evening
17:23 <@rizen> nope
17:24 <@rizen> morning and evening are relative to position of sun in the sky..it really has nothing to do with time of day
17:24 <@rizen> we have just set up our time system so they correlate
17:24 <+MrHairgrease> In the netherlands the position of the sun is determined by the time
17:25 <@rizen> interesting
17:25 <@rizen> does the sun revolve around the earth in the netherlands?
17:26 <+MrHairgrease> No, the sun and the earth too for that matter, revolve around Delft
17:26 <@rizen> ah
17:26 <@rizen> well delft is the engineering capitol of the world
17:26 <+MrHairgrease> And sometime around the LHC
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> if they're trying to destroy earth again
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> true
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> Delft houses the smartest people
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> and the best looking too
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> both groups tend to overlap
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17:29 < bartjol> damn, I'm only good looking
17:30 <+MrHairgrease> of course you are
17:30 <+MrHairgrease> you're from delft
17:30 <@rizen> i've been to delft, does that count for anything?
17:30 <+MrHairgrease> and therefore you must be pretty smart too
17:30 < bartjol> is there a possiblility that nl.js (for tinymce) will be in the WebGUI distro
17:30 < bartjol> ?
17:30 <@rizen> bart is it not in there now?
17:30 < bartjol> nope
17:30 <+MrHairgrease> rizen: only a bit, but it wears off over time
17:30 <@rizen> add a bug report
17:30 < bartjol> well, on my server it is
17:30 <@rizen> we'll get it in for you
17:30 < bartjol> I allready did
17:30 <+MrHairgrease> so yo0u really should come over again
17:31 <@rizen> hehe, ok mrhairgrease
17:31 < bartjol> His wife is coming in may/june MrHairgrease
17:31 <@rizen> i'll be close next summer...Portugal
17:31 <+MrHairgrease> yeah the yapc
17:31 < bartjol> Portugese people are ugly
17:31 <+MrHairgrease> oqapi is going there too
17:31 <+MrHairgrease> if everything goes ok
17:35 < bartjol> rizen: is nl.js WebGUI specific with other words, do you need a translation from me, or is it a default one?
17:36 <@rizen> it's the default one
17:36 <@rizen> we always just use their translations
17:36 < bartjol> ok, then I won't bother about that
17:36 < bartjol> the german's missing too
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18:30 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7811 /WebGUI/ (7 files in 4 dirs): fixed: some default assets have ids shorter than 22 characters
18:30 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7812 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: failure when submitting a dataform that sends mail with an empty file field
18:30 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7813 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: DataForm ignores height on textarea fields
18:30 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7814 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: DataForm doesn't keep posted values properly when data fails validation
18:30 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7815 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: failure when submitting a dataform that sends mail with an empty file field
18:30 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7816 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: DataForm ignores height on textarea fields
18:30 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7817 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: DataForm doesn't keep posted values properly when data fails validation
18:31 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7818 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fixed: DataForm entry table isn't properly indexed
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18:40 <+perlDreamer> go Haarg!
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19:02 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7819 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: DataForm can't export fields containing newlines
19:06 <@preaction> I want to make it so I could define "value => label" inside of Thingy list-type form elements (and DataForm, and Profile), can anyone think of why this might be a bad idea?
19:06 <@preaction> (this is for the "Possible Values" field)
19:07 <+perlDreamer> so that it works like Profile Fields?
19:09 <@Haarg> don't like pipes?
19:12 <@preaction> pipes is how it does it now?
19:12 <@Haarg> yeah
19:12 <@preaction> in lib/WebGUI/Form/DynamicField.pm it doesn't seem to do any translating at all
19:12 <@Haarg> it's in the form controls
19:13 <@Haarg> list
19:13 <@preaction> yeah, i see it now
19:14 <@preaction> i'll update all the docs, Dataform and thingy don't have that in there
19:14 <@preaction> pretty sure Profile doesn't either
19:14 <@Haarg> profile handles it separately
19:14 <@preaction> good lord why?
19:15 <@Haarg> because that's how it was written
19:15 <@preaction> anyway
19:15 <@Haarg> profile uses real perl hashes
19:15 <+perlDreamer> put that on the wG 8 TODO list ;)
19:15 <@Haarg> and secureevals them
19:15 <@Haarg> yeah, it's something that is planned to change
19:16 <@preaction> where are these plans? i've been leaving #TODO: comments in the code so future generations know what needs to be fixed
19:16 <+perlDreamer> Can we start a wiki page for them?
19:17 <@preaction> i'm lazy, so i wouldn't expect that page to be used :(
19:20 <@preaction> or by change do we mean the Form::Control getEditForm method?
19:21 <@Haarg> i meant how the profile system handles multiple values/evals
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19:32 < CIA-39> WebGUI: doug * r7820 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 2 dirs): fixed documentation for dataform and thingy Possible Values field
19:32 < CIA-39> WebGUI: doug * r7821 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (3 files in 2 dirs): backport 7820
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19:55 <@rizen> perlDreamer: regarding webgui 8 changes. right now i'm just keeping the list in my head. this is mainly because i simply don't want people commenting on this stuff until i've had a chance to work it out in my head
19:55 <@rizen> that's why there is no public list anywhere
19:55 <@rizen> it sucks to have people second guessing you when you are still second guessing yourself
19:56 <@rizen> but yes, there will be some rather massive changes to the forms system in webgui 8
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20:03 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7822 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (lib/WebGUI/Asset/Shortcut.pm docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt): fixed: Shortcuts includes HTML head data twice
20:03 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7823 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (4 files in 3 dirs): fixed: some default assets have ids shorter than 22 characters
20:03 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7824 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.5.24-7.5.25.pl: typo in upgrade script
20:03 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7825 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.5.24-7.5.25.pl: forgot to add upgrade function to be ran
20:03 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7826 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/ (4 files in 2 dirs): fixed: UserList templates use incorrect variable names
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20:36 <+perlDreamer> got it, rizen.
20:36 <+perlDreamer> Ixnay on the ikiway
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20:42 < zylopfa> Greetingd
20:42 < zylopfa> woops greetings that is
20:43 < zylopfa> I am about to make a english language version of my website and i want it to be in the /en directory
20:43 < zylopfa> Anyone know how i make a full copy of the /home branch?
20:44 <+perlDreamer> zylopfa, I _think_ that you go to the /home page and edit the page
20:44 <+perlDreamer> Find the Make Package setting, and set it to yes.
20:45 <+perlDreamer> then, go to the Asset Manager
20:45 <+perlDreamer> Navigate to where you want to place the copy
20:45 <+perlDreamer> then Deploy the package
20:45 < zylopfa> ahh thanks a lot friend
20:46 <+perlDreamer> you're welcome, but do try it out to make sure I'm right first  ;)
20:46 < zylopfa> yeah I am on it :D
20:58 < zylopfa> Thanks a lot perlDreamer it works !
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20:59 <+perlDreamer> cool.  You can wiki that if you wish.
21:06 <+perlDreamer> Yay, bopbop!
21:06 <@apeiron> /Users/apeiron/.irssi/scripts/bgtriggers/receive.sh
21:06 <+perlDreamer> ....and jt for president
21:06 <@apeiron> /Users/apeiron/.irssi/scripts/bgtriggers/receive.sh
21:06 <+perlDreamer> is apeiron really a bot?
21:06 <@apeiron> /Users/apeiron/.irssi/scripts/bgtriggers/receive.sh
21:06 <+perlDreamer> interesting
21:06 <@apeiron> /Users/apeiron/.irssi/scripts/bgtriggers/receive.sh
21:06 <@apeiron> that's not right
21:07 <+perlDreamer> I wouldn't think so
21:07 <@apeiron> o_O
21:07 <@apeiron> perlDreamer, Thanks for pinging me, I wouldn't have noticed that otherwise.
21:07 <+perlDreamer> It just started a few messages ago
21:08 <@apeiron> Yeah, trying to set up a script to notify me of privmsgs and I seem to be Doing It Wrong.
21:09 <@apeiron> ah, now I get it.
21:09 <+perlDreamer>   /Users/apeiron/.irssi/scripts/bgtriggers/receive.sh
21:10 <@apeiron> perlDreamer++ # helping me debug stuff
21:11 <@apeiron> Sorry for the spam, folks; on the plus side, I shouldn't miss any privmsgs now unless I'm actually gone. :)
21:11 <@rizen> apeiron, if you just used a real irc client it would do that for you anyway
21:12 <@rizen> =)
21:12 <@apeiron> rizen, I've been thinking about that, too, actually.
21:13 <@rizen> colloquy is what most of PB uses, but there are plenty of others for the mac as well
21:13  * apeiron nods
21:13 <@preaction> XChat Aqua doesn't piss me off as much as Colloquy does
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21:13 < Lisette> i can do an utility that send email?
21:13 <@preaction> yes
21:14 < Lisette> the api is the same for the macros?
21:14 < Lisette> for the send emails?
21:14 <+perlDreamer> No
21:14 <+perlDreamer> Macro API is very different from sending emails
21:14 < Lisette> how to do?
21:14 <@apeiron> Perhaps Lisette's question is: is the API for sending mail from a utility the same as it is for sending mail from a macro?
21:14 < Lisette> i can use the package WebGUI::Send
21:15 <@apeiron> That's what it seems to be to me, anyway.
21:15 <@preaction> Lisette, yes. WebGUI::Mail::Send
21:15 < Lisette> ok, thanks
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22:39 < Bernd_> Question to everyone: How do I test for unset variables or empty strings?
22:39 < Bernd_> I need to check template variables that are filled by a macro.
22:40 < Bernd_> If the macro does not work correctly, the variables may be either undef or empty.
22:40 < Bernd_> What would be a failsafe testing expression?=
22:40 <+perlDreamer> Bernd_: is this for your user's logged in macro?
22:40 < Bernd_> Yes.
22:41 <+perlDreamer> Well, I think you just need to set up a test case where all template variables are guaranteed to be filled in.
22:41 < Bernd_> So far I have defined a boolean variable that is true by default.
22:41 < Bernd_> Afterwards, I add tests with the expression "flag &&= <expression>"
22:42 < Bernd_> No, you got me wrong.
22:42 < Bernd_> I want to test, whether all variables do contain a value after having parsed the JSON structure.
22:43 < Bernd_> I mean, I want to know whether the macro has filled them all correctly.
22:43 <+perlDreamer> use Test::Deep
22:44 < Bernd_> That is for comparing nested arrays and hashes, right?
22:44 <+perlDreamer> Yes
22:44 < Bernd_> But I do not have anything to compare against.
22:44 <+perlDreamer> You'll  have to make one by hand
22:44 < Bernd_> Check this pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com/dfbceb15
22:44 < Bernd_> Maybe, it is clearer then.
22:45 <+perlDreamer> Yes, it is clearer
22:45 < Bernd_> Except for a few variables I do not know what to expect.
22:45 < Bernd_> I just want to be sure variables have been set.
22:45 < Bernd_> But the current code does not work properly.
22:45 <+perlDreamer> Do you know what kind of data to expect?
22:45 <+perlDreamer> is it a number
22:45 <+perlDreamer> or a string
22:45 <+perlDreamer> or something else?
22:45 < Bernd_> Mostly.
22:46 < Bernd_> But for the moment I just want to check that it is not empty or undefined.
22:46 <+perlDreamer> Well, Test::Deep will let you test for exactness, or for classes of stuff
22:46 <+perlDreamer> you can specify a regex, for example
22:46 <+perlDreamer> or you can ignore fields completely, using the ignore() method
22:46 <+perlDreamer> perldoc Test::Deep
22:47 < Bernd_> Ok, I will check. Thanks!
22:48 <+perlDreamer> for example, the "bool" method may be of use
22:48 <+perlDreamer> but it will fail on 0
22:48 <+perlDreamer> which might be valid data
22:49 < Bernd_> You are right.
22:49 < Bernd_> I think it is something similar that happens.
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22:50 < Bernd_> Would it be enough to test for the length of strings to be larger than 0?
22:50 <+perlDreamer> I with Test::Deep had a defined method built in
22:51 <+perlDreamer> but, in the meantime, re('.') should work okay
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22:51 <+perlDreamer> which matches any 1 character
22:51 < Bernd_> I am going to check.
22:51 <+perlDreamer> if it is undef or empty string, that regex will fail
22:51 < Bernd_> Thanks again!
22:52 <+perlDreamer> You're welcome, Bernd.
22:55 -!- lisette_ [n=chatzill@201.232.58.66] has joined #webgui
22:56 < lisette_> Ji Lissete
22:56 < lisette_> Hi
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22:56 < lisette_> How are you
22:59 < lisette_> Anybody knows the best solution to integrate a chat with webGui
22:59 < Bernd_> lisette_: There is a simple chat asset in the bazaar.
23:00 <@rizen> lisette_ yeah, point them to irc with a link
23:00 <@rizen> =)
23:00 <@rizen> irc://irc.freenode.net#nameyourchannel
23:00 < Bernd_> Not sure if it is still working.
23:01 < Bernd_> Alternatively, you could use cgiirc.
23:01 < Bernd_> That is an IRC web client written in perl
23:01 < Bernd_> Runs inside the WRE.
23:01 < Bernd_> That is what we are using on our site.
23:01 < Bernd_> However, integration is poor.
23:07 < Bernd_> perlDreamer: Seems to work!
23:08 < Bernd_> But I have one more question.
23:08 <+perlDreamer> ask away
23:08 < Bernd_> I also need to check for the presence of the default template.
23:08 <+perlDreamer> yes
23:08 <+perlDreamer> I have done that in two ways
23:08 < Bernd_> An instance can be created with my $defTemplate = WebGUI::Asset->new($session, 'pUwYHCjfQUMcRXRmKOlaRQ');
23:08 <+perlDreamer> 1) Use lots of little regular expressions
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23:09 <+perlDreamer> 2) Use HTML::Parser to do light weight parsing of the HTML
23:09 <+perlDreamer> I would fully test with the JSON template
23:09 <+perlDreamer> and then restrict the default template testing to 1 user
23:09 <+perlDreamer> just 1 user
23:09 < Bernd_> ???
23:09 < Bernd_> I cannot follow.
23:10 < Bernd_> I meant, I want to check whether the default template for the macro was delivered with WebGUI.
23:10 < Bernd_> What is the best way for testing that?
23:10 <+perlDreamer> oh, in that case, yes.  Build an instance to the template.
23:10 < Bernd_> Shall I create an instance and catch any errors with eval?
23:10 <+perlDreamer> yes
23:10 < elnino_home> Hi!  Can the newsletter handle a two column format for email delivery?
23:11 < Bernd_> Alright. I think that's it. Thanks again!
23:11 <+perlDreamer> Bitteschoen
23:11 < Bernd_> I wonder how many more times I am going to write that last sentence :-)
23:11 < Bernd_> Danke schön!
23:11 <+perlDreamer> I need to use an international keyboard
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23:23 < topsub> can we make it so if your not logged into the website ( webgui.org) and try to post something helpful to the wiki it will tell you before you type all this usefull information in there and it says "Permission Denied!"
23:24 < topsub> Tried to updated the wiki with this information and lost it now due to i'm not logged in which ididn't know
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23:24 <@preaction> topsub, hitting back doesn't make your browser keep the form as it was?
23:24 < topsub> no :-(
23:24 < topsub> didn't for me
23:24 < topsub> FF3
23:25 <@preaction> it shouldn't allow you to see the edit tab if you can't edit. i would consider that a bug (but others may disagree)
23:25 < topsub> i'm not logged in right now and i can see the edit tab
23:25 <+perlDreamer> file it
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23:28 < juan> i have a lot pages in active sessions, the respective workflow to delet them is not executing
23:28 < Bernd_> rizen, I think I am done with the testing function for the UsersOnline macro.
23:29 < Bernd_> But I would like to know your opinion on what should be tested.
23:29 <@rizen> nice job Bernd_
23:29 < Bernd_> I have implemented the following tests:
23:29 < Bernd_> - labels are set correctly
23:29 < Bernd_> - all template variables are filled
23:29 < Bernd_> - the default template is there
23:29 < juan> how can i delete them?
23:30 < Bernd_> - artificially created users show up
23:30 < juan> why my workflows are not executing?
23:30 < Bernd_> - some logic on returned numers
23:30 < Bernd_> numbers, of course
23:30 < Bernd_> Is there anything else to do?
23:30 <@rizen> do you test any/all parameters that can be passed into the macro
23:31 <@rizen> to make sure that a) it doesn't crash or worse, and b) that it does the right thing with that data
23:31 < Bernd_> Not really.
23:31 <@rizen> what params can be passed in?
23:31 < Bernd_> a) Max number of users and visitors to be listed
23:32 < Bernd_> b) Max time since last activity for being considered active
23:32 < Bernd_> Default values are set in the macro
23:32 <@rizen> are they easily testable by parsing the output?
23:32 < Bernd_> Not sure what would be good test values
23:32 <+perlDreamer> 0 is a good test value
23:33 <@preaction> or 1
23:33 < Bernd_> Ok, I am going to include 0 and 1.
23:33 <+perlDreamer> Bernd_: just make sure that they work the way you expect
23:33 < Bernd_> Hm, difficult to check.
23:33 <@rizen> our next RFE day is in two weeks
23:33 <@rizen> if you can have your tests and everything completd by then
23:33 <@rizen> we can review the macro
23:33 <@rizen> and get it into the core
23:34 < Bernd_> Sounds great!
23:34 < Bernd_> But I think it is possible.
23:34 < Bernd_> Ok, back to work.
23:34 < Bernd_> Thanks everyone!
23:34 <@rizen> holy crap!
23:34 <+perlDreamer> Hack on, Bernd_
23:34 <@rizen> there are 33 people in IRC
23:34 <+perlDreamer> Yeah, dude.  Where have you been?
23:35 <@rizen> that's a lot considering today isn't a special event or anything
23:35 <@rizen> it seems to average around 26 or so
23:35 <+perlDreamer> "Today is Thursday.  Everybody " is in IRC " on Thursday."
23:40 <@perlmonkey2> all i can say is this is probably the smartest solution I've ever come up with: http://pastebin.com/d42b9562a
23:40 < Lisette> whats mean ITransact?
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23:41 <+perlDreamer> ITransact is the name of a company that handles credit card processing on the internet.
23:43 < Lisette> thanks
23:49 < BartJol> well, peaks shouldn't last too long, so bye
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23:50 < elnino_home> hello! we're going to be using teh newsletter asset now, was wondering if it can handle a two column format for email delivery? 
23:50 < elnino_home> or maybe the question is: can you select a "page layout" type thing for newsletters?
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23:52 < elnino_home> hmmm. still not seeing that type of functionality.  That kinda stinks.
23:53 < elnino_home> I wonder if there is a way to use pagelayouts, and workflows to take a pagelayout and sent IT as the newsletter?
--- Day changed Fri Oct 03 2008
00:10 < elnino_home> ah. newsletter is a cs system, so I have userdefined fields.that might work.
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00:17 <@Haarg> i need to get the POD test working at some point.  it would be really easy to add the pod it is complaining about
00:17 <@Haarg> then we'd just have the labels test failing
00:21 < juan> i have the next error when i try to edit a post
00:21 < juan> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m21da2908
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00:23 <@Haarg> perlDreamer, did those modifications to the syntax checker i was talking about yesterday sound reasonable?
00:23 < juan> i can not save the post
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00:25 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, yes.  I'd still prefer the pre-commit hook, though
00:25 <+perlDreamer> No need to commit broken code
00:26 <@preaction> i think that a hook to test code would encourage reliance on the testing to catch stupid mistakes (instead of testing yourself)
00:32 <@Haarg> do you think it should test them in an eval or a subprocess?
00:33 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, I'm not sure what the difference would be.
00:33 <+perlDreamer> People always complain about speed, though
00:33 <@Haarg> mainly if it attempted to use a module without 'use'ing it
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00:51 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7827 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/t/Asset/Wobject/GalleryAlbum/permission.t: make GalleryAlbum test run, and fix it
00:51 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7828 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.5.10-7.5.11.pl: fix upgrade script setting defaults
00:51 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7829 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.5.25 release
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02:28 < Lisette> i can do a list of wish in the shop?
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02:28 <+perlDreamer> The shop does not have a wish list feature yet
02:29 < Lisette> ok, thanks
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02:37 < Bernd_> Alright, I have implemented some tests on parameters.
02:37 < Bernd_> An update is available in the bazaar.
02:38 < CIA-39> WebGUI: jt * r7830 /releases/WebGUI_7.5.25-stable: Release 7.5.25-stable
02:38 < Bernd_> Tomorrow, I am going to submit an RFE for inclusion into the core.
02:38 < Bernd_> Good night and happy coding!
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02:45 <@Haarg> perlDreamer, thoughts on this? http://webgui.pastebin.com/m43489b4c
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03:19 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7831 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (4 files in 4 dirs): preparing for 7.5.26 dev
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12:31 < kurios63> hello all
12:38 < BartJol> hi
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16:18 < SDuensin> Greetings.
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16:56 < estiven> Morning..
16:57 < estiven> I want to install the spectre in other machine.. (actually run in the same machine when i have install WG)....
16:59 < estiven> what files do i need  to install in the new machine?
16:59 < BartJol> it is just a new machine?
16:59 < BartJol> that hasn't got spectre yet?
17:00 < BartJol> it should be in the WG install
17:00 < estiven> yes is a new machine...
17:00 < estiven> mm, ok
17:00 < BartJol> can't you just install the wre
17:01 < BartJol> spectre is in /data/WebGUI/sbin
17:01 < estiven> ok, no problem...
17:01 < BartJol> and the spectre.conf in /data/WebGUI/etc
17:01 < BartJol> should work
17:02 < estiven> but, the configuration that i have in the WG....  is the same that i need in the new mahcine...
17:02 < estiven> only change the parametres for spectre conect...
17:02 < estiven> ip, port, etc...
17:02 < BartJol> well, copy your config to the other machine
17:02 < BartJol> change the necessary information
17:03 < BartJol> that is configuration :)
17:03 < estiven> jeje, ok, but if i change the configuration in the one machine i need to change to the other...?
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17:04 < estiven> or just share the configuration files in a central storage...
17:04 < BartJol> you want two machines use the same spectre?
17:04 < estiven> yes..
17:04 < BartJol> sorry, two WebGUI installs
17:05 < estiven> or more
17:05 < estiven> no
17:05 < estiven> i what to use a balancer..
17:05 < BartJol> same spectre or same spectre configuration?
17:06 < estiven> same spectre configuration...
17:07 < estiven> the espectre in the new machine run the spectre install there
17:07 < BartJol> well, I'm not sure about this
17:08 < estiven> jmm,
17:08 < estiven> so  i need to try..
17:08 < BartJol> indeed
17:08 < BartJol> but spectre itself also has an IP
17:08 < BartJol> so ig you use 1 config, I think u use 1 spectre
17:09 < BartJol> s/\sig/if/
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17:11 < estiven> ok, I will try it and I will tell you about it...
17:11 < BartJol> that would be nice
17:12 < estiven> thanks
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18:54 < SquOnk> Hi everyone
18:54 < SquOnk> Updated 7.5.24 Debian packages at the usual place.
18:58 <@perlmonkey2> swa-eet
19:07 < SquOnk> I have a nice proposal for a Module::Build installation schema, sans test running :-)
19:07 < SquOnk> I'll probably get it done by next weekend. I have to take and grade 40 tests next tuesday...
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20:33 <@Haarg> perlDreamer, see any issues with this? http://webgui.pastebin.com/m43489b4c
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20:34 <+perlDreamer> on phone, will look soon
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20:48 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, it looks fine.  I only see one thing that I might tweak, and it's very nit-picky
20:48 <+perlDreamer> I'd create another enclosing scope around the foreach, and do the ^W and SIG-WARN stuff just once
20:48 <+perlDreamer> actually, that's so minor I'd just skip it
20:49 <@Haarg> there's no need to have the ENV check in that, since it runs fast
20:50 <@Haarg> so i'll probably just remove it
20:51 <@Haarg> the $SIG{__WARN__} can't go outside the loop
20:52 <@Haarg> since it needs to reference the $warnings that is defined inside the for
20:52 <+perlDreamer> ah, yeah
20:52 <+perlDreamer> you're right
21:27 <@perlmonkey2> If you only want to attach information during a single post session, can you attach it to the session object?
21:27 <@perlmonkey2> $self->session->{myTempInfo}?
21:30 <@preaction> perlmonkey2, use stow
21:31 <@preaction> WebGUI::Session::Stow
21:47 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7832 /translations/Spanish/Spanish/ (Tax.pm ShipDriver_FlatRate.pm PayDriver_Cash.pm Shop.pm): Update from translation server
21:47 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7833 /translations/Spanish/Spanish/Asset_Sku.pm: Update from translation server
21:47 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7834 /translations/Spanish/Spanish/ (Asset_StockData.pm Asset_Sku.pm): Update from translation server
21:51 < ckotil> Anyone know if there is an rfe for changing an assets ranking when you drag and drop an asset in the web view?
21:52 <+perlDreamer> ckotil, doesn't that work now?  Drag and drop in the Asset Manager?  Or are you talking about in the Page view?
21:52 < ckotil> page view.
21:52 <+perlDreamer> I think those are different mechanisms
21:52 <+perlDreamer> asset rank is the default order
21:52 < ckotil> It seems that webgui keeps track of order when you drag and drop, but it doesnt update the ranking
21:53 <@preaction> it keeps track of the order in a different way, because of the different content positions
21:53 <+perlDreamer> if you move stuff in the page view, it says, "The user does not want ranking order anymore, but a custom order"
21:53 <@preaction> Layout positions are not asset ranks
21:53 <+perlDreamer> That is so succinct
21:53 < ckotil> id rather it say 'User changed the order, so change the rank'
21:53 <+perlDreamer> That would make an RFE
21:54 < ckotil> OK, thanks
21:57 < ckotil> http://www.palinwink.com/
21:58 <@preaction> when McCain and Palin win there will be dancing in the streets!
21:59 <@preaction> and the Top Gun theme played at high volume throughout the land!
21:59 <@preaction> he should've played Maverick, since he's such a maverick
22:01 <@rizen> preaction must die
22:01 <@rizen> $100 to the first person to kill preaction
22:01 <@rizen> oh wait, that's not worth anything
22:01 <@rizen> 100 euros to the first person to kill preaction
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22:14 <@perlmonkey2> for some strange reason the dollar is getting stronger against the euro through all of this.
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22:20 < ckotil> longest RFE i've made.
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22:38 < jlittlewood> does anyone know if ^FormParam() works over ssl?
22:38 <@Haarg> it should
22:38 < jlittlewood> it is doing some funky funky stuff
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22:39 < jlittlewood> I'm trying to passthru info in a URL (a membership ID #) and put ^FormParam() into a field in a table... the first couple 'o times you to the page it doesn't seem to populate the field, but on the 3rd try it does.
22:40 < Lisette> i can do a pin with a product and this expires me
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22:58 < isaac_> yoyo
22:59 < isaac_> Ok.  I'm getting ready to trace down this spectre problem. but wanted to check here and see if anyone has seen/fixed this already.
23:00 < isaac_> here's the dealio:
23:00 < isaac_> 		$instance->delete;\n	return $self->COMPLETE;		
23:00 < isaac_>  is not working for me in an activity
23:00 < isaac_> spectre basically deletes from it's queue before it gets the response.
23:01 < isaac_> so I see this when running debug:
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23:01 < isaac_> WORKFLOW: Deleting workflow instance nPhqKqKm-0qGTFMs-JCMbg from queue.
23:01 < isaac_> WORKFLOW: Retrieving response from workflow instance.
23:01 < isaac_> WORKFLOW: Response retrieved is for nPhqKqKm-0qGTFMs-JCMbg
23:01 < isaac_> WORKFLOW: Response for nPhqKqKm-0qGTFMs-JCMbg retrieved successfully
23:02 < isaac_> then it goes to post the status on the workflow and starts error'ing out since the object still exists in spectre but it's empty
23:02 < isaac_> WORKFLOW: Preparing to run workflow instance .
23:02 < isaac_> WORKFLOW: Posting workflow instance  to http://:80.
23:03 < isaac_> WORKFLOW: Workflow instance  posted.
23:03 < isaac_> afk for a few min.  since no seems to be here atm.  (lunch?)
23:03 <+perlDreamer> isaac_, please paste all that into a pastebin.
23:03 <+perlDreamer> Otherwise, when preaction comes back he'll boot you from the channel
23:03 <@Haarg> also first thing to do is check your sitename
23:04 <@Haarg> it needs to be a hostname you can access the site through
23:04 <+perlDreamer> whoa
23:04 <+perlDreamer> new webgui.org styling
23:05 <@preaction> perlDreamer, where?
23:05 <+perlDreamer> participate page
23:05 <+perlDreamer> faded bg's
23:05 <+perlDreamer> looks nice
23:05 <@preaction> indeed, me likes
23:05 <+perlDreamer> is that steve-o?
23:06 <+perlDreamer> or tabbbbbbbbbbbb
23:06 <@preaction> dunno
23:06 <@preaction> where are the designers today?
23:09 <@perlmonkey2> Designing?
23:10 < isaac_> pastebin?
23:11 < isaac_> what's a pastebin?
23:11 <@preaction> isaac_, webgui.pastebin.com <- paste large blocks of text there
23:11 <@preaction> then give us the URL
23:11 < isaac_> hah... k
23:11 < isaac_> sry
23:12 < isaac_> http://webgui.pastebin.com/d29a8bfa6
23:12 < isaac_> for anyone inteested.
23:13 <@preaction> wth... spectre is running a blank workflow?
23:13 <@preaction> restart spectre perhaps?
23:14 <@preaction> oh, you're trying to stop the instance from running anymore, i remember now
23:14 < isaac_> yeah.    I was going with a another workaround.  setting the instance to the last activity
23:14 < isaac_> but it ends up wanting to instanciate another instance of my object at the very end for some reason, which causes me more problems
23:15 < isaac_> so I'm trying to go back to this, since it's more clean/kosher anyhow
23:15 <@preaction> pastebin your whole activity and let me see
23:15 < isaac_> k.
23:16 < isaac_> http://webgui.pastebin.com/d3a558e5d
23:16 < isaac_> there's alot of commented out stuff since I've been chewing on it
23:17 < isaac_> the relevant portion is lines  111-119
23:17 <@preaction> and you're using 7.5.x?
23:17 < isaac_> no
23:18 < isaac_> just upgraded to 7.4.40
23:18 < isaac_> on my dev system
23:18 < isaac_> am moving to 7.5 shortly. but was trying to get this fixed before I can do that.
23:19 < isaac_> I didn't really see anything int he bugs about this when I searched.  I was about to go browse the depot to see if there were any relavant spectre chnages since 7.4..40 that might pertain
23:21 <@preaction> isaac_, change $instance->delete to $instance->delete(1); and see what happens
23:22 < isaac_> tried that.
23:22 < isaac_> no luck.  I'll verify again. 1 sec
23:22 <@preaction> nm then
23:22 <@preaction> i can only say to make a dev instance of 7.5.x and see if it works
23:22 <@preaction> or better yet, SVN HEAD
23:23 < isaac_> k.  That's what I figured. Just thought I'd check
23:23 < isaac_> thanks
23:25 < isaac_> hmm...
23:25 < isaac_> now it's working
23:25 < isaac_> I must not have reset everything after trying the ->delete(1) before
23:25 < isaac_> argh
23:25 < isaac_> <loose nut behind the keyboard porblem>
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23:25 <@preaction> it's weird that it works, but if it does it might mean that the existing activities in webgui are broken
23:27 < isaac_> it looked like a timing issue before, since it deletes before it has the return status ont he activity.  then gets the return status and basically creates and empty wofklow object in spectre to put the return status in
23:28 < isaac_> I haven't spent much time in the lib/Spectre/* stuff lately
23:28 < isaac_> I was pretty sure this wasn't working before. But then I was in 7.4.16 so something may have changed since then.
23:28 < isaac_> that impacted this. Now I just have to chew through these JSON 2 issues.
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--- Day changed Sat Oct 04 2008
00:06 < isaac_> bbl
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01:40 < Mech422> hi all - I'm just starting to go thru the dev. info on the wiki, and I was wondering what the difference is between an 'asset' and a 'wobject' ?
01:40 <@preaction> depends: Are you a programmer?
01:41 <@preaction> if you're not a programmer: there is no difference
01:41 <@preaction> if you're a programmer: A Wobject is a broad type of Asset that provides additional basic functionality like style templates
01:42 < Mech422> preaction: I'm a programmer - but haven't done anything with webgui yet
01:42 < Mech422> preaction: do you develop with webgui ?
01:42 <@preaction> yes
01:42 <@preaction> all the +o in this channel are Plain Black staff
01:42 < Mech422> preaction: oh sorry
01:43 <@preaction> they aren't all programmers though
01:43 <@preaction> tavisto couldn't find a closure with both hands in broad daylight if you gave him a map and there were pretty girls standing next to it
01:43 < Mech422> I was gonna ask you about the learning curve, and what sort of payoff you got in application development time - but if your with plain black, you probably didn't have a learning curve - you sort of defined it ?
01:44 <@preaction> uh... Jt wrote WebGUI, he's the only one who really didn't have a learning curve
01:44 <@tavisto> that is correct.
01:44 <@preaction> i'm not JT, I had to learn everything myself
01:45 <@preaction> the learning curve is dependant on your fluency with Perl and OO systems
01:45 <@preaction> if you're good with Perl and good with OO, then you shouldn't have to worry too much
01:45 <@preaction> I suggest picking up the WebGUI Developer's Guide
01:46 < Mech422> preaction: I did some pretty strong OO perl stuff - but that was about 10 years ago before Moose, POE, etc.
01:46 <@preaction> we don't use any of that stuff really
01:46 <@preaction> Spectre uses POE, but you don't have to worry about it (the real functionality isn't in POE)
01:46 < Mech422> preaction: yeah - if we go with webgui, I'll need to order a full set of manuals... for now, we're just playing...
01:46 <@preaction> we use Class::InsideOut for some things now, but most of the plugin points are standard Perl OO stuff
01:47 <@preaction> we also do on-site training, i'm going to a couple places over the next couple weeks to do design, front-end, and programming training
01:47 < Mech422> preaction: I've got about 20 hours this weekend to attempt some 'simple' tasks and try and get a 'realistic' feel for learning curve vs. dev. time stuff
01:47 <@preaction> it's not that bad really, as long as you start small
01:47 <@preaction> check out lib/WebGUI/Asset/_asset.skeleton
01:48 <@preaction> lib/WebGUI/Macro/_macro.skeleton
01:48 <@preaction> lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/_wobject.skeleton
01:48 <@preaction> there are a bunch more skeletons like that
01:48 < Mech422> heh - the starting small part is gonna be tough, as webgui already provides most stuff 'out of the box' 
01:48 <@preaction> yeah, there is that
01:48 < Mech422> I might have to re-create a simple content type just to have something to benchmark
01:49 <@preaction> Thingy especially takes a lot of the work out of programmer's hands
01:49 < Mech422> on the other hand, that would allow me to see how mine compared to the 'reference implementation'
01:49 < Mech422> Ahh - yeah, I've heard good things about Thingy - but haven't gotten to anything about it on the wiki yet
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01:50 < Mech422> (I'm reading the 'getting started with development' page and all linked refereneces)
01:50 <@preaction> to re-create the Article asset, for example, would probably take me just a couple hours. a lot of functionality of WebGUI is in WebGUI::Form::Control and its subclasses, the Asset->definition sub, and otherwise
01:51 < Mech422> I was thinking much simpler - like maybe a static text asset or something :-)
01:51 <@preaction> that's kinda what the Article is, plus file attachments (easy to do with a WebGUI::Form::File control)
01:51 <@preaction> oh, it's templatable too i guess
01:52 < Mech422> this trivia object in the wobject tutorial could be good too
01:52 <@preaction> if you just want a static text asset: package WebGUI::Asset::StaticText; sub view { return "Hello, World\n" }
01:52 <@preaction> then add "WebGUI::Asset::StaticText" to your configuration file (under the "assets" section), and it should work
01:53 < Mech422> oh...umm..yeah, that might be a bit too small :-)
01:53 <@preaction> then add to that, a definition sub, which defines a table in the database for the asset to store data
01:54 <@preaction> the form to edit the asset is generated automatically, so all you need to do is get the data using $self->get("yourParameterName")
01:55 < Mech422> hmm - sql is handled in-line via basic strings right ?  no ORM or whatnot ?
01:56 <@preaction> the asset itself is the ORM, though if you want collateral data in a 1-1 or 1-many relationship you can use WebGUI::Crud (added in 7.6.0)
01:56 <@preaction> but no forced ORM, no
01:57 <@preaction> WebGUI doesn't try to overcomplicate things (unless its absolutely necessary)
01:58 < Mech422> looking at this trivia wobject - the code seems fairly straight forward
02:00 <@preaction> yeah, simple stuff is pretty simple to do. no fancy relationship building, no requiring templates or otherwise
02:04 < Mech422> how about js enabled form controls / ajax ?  Is there an included js library or a 'preferred' library for use with webgui ?
02:05 <@preaction> we include and use YUI with WebGUI
02:05 <@preaction> the Date / Time controls use YUI's calendar
02:05 <@preaction> there will be a DataForm control in 7.6.x that uses YUI
02:05 <@preaction> DataForms are used all over, in fact
02:06 <@preaction> that doesn't preclude using other JS libraries
02:06 <@preaction> it just means that YUI is what the default code will use, admin tools and such
02:07 < Mech422> ahh cool...
02:09 < Mech422> do 'DataForms' support some sort of automated validation and redisplayed?  For instance, if a required field is missing when a user submits a form, can it re-display the form with an error message and preserve the values they had entered originally (so all they have to do is populate the missing required field) ?
02:10 <@preaction> the Dataform asset? it should
02:10 < Mech422> nice - that sort of functionality removes a lot of drudge work :-)
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02:12 <@preaction> tavisto, when's the next free webinar? or have we stopped doing that sort of stuff now?
02:12 <@tavisto> This wednesday @ 2pm EDT (GMT -4)
02:12 <@tavisto> Register online @ www.plainblack.com/webinar
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02:13 <@tavisto> gah sorry GMT -5
02:13 < Mech422> oh thanks guys - I'll do that now
02:13 <@preaction> are there topics? or just "whatever we wnt to talk about"?
02:15 <@tavisto> it's always a sales tool used for introducing WebGUI to potential customers and users
02:15 <@tavisto> in the future we'll offer other webinars when we have time. :)
02:15 <@tavisto> it would be great to have weekly design and development webinars
02:16 <@preaction> like step 2 webinars
02:16 <@tavisto> exactly.
02:16 <@preaction> step 1: what is webgui? what does it do?
02:16 <@preaction> step 2: How to start your WebGUI site
02:17 < Mech422> preaction: one thing we've found with our plone stuff...
02:18 < Mech422> 'skinners' / designers generally need some sort of 'light weight' training
02:18 < Mech422> that doesn't 'fit' well with 'normal' programmer training
02:18 <@preaction> how do you mean "doesn't fit well"?
02:18 <@tavisto> I agree... give em a little push into the learning curve so they're excited and know what to do
02:19 <@preaction> webgui style templates are pretty straightforward, add in macros and how to make Navigation assets and you're set
02:19 <@preaction> 5-8 hours of training and they're up and running really. provided they've already got strong HTML and CSS skills
02:20 <@preaction> that's like classroom style training
02:20 <@preaction> it depends, always, on the students (of course)
02:20 < Mech422> Heh - Plone skinning are generally at least 3 days :-P
02:21 < Mech422> s/skinning/skinning classes/
02:21 < CIA-39> WebGUI: doug * r7835 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): added a new permission denied page for the manageVersionTags screen
02:22 <@preaction> the hardest part is the Navigations really, you can get some extremely complex setups. and editing navigation templates can be simple, or it can be a nightmare
02:23 <@preaction> http://www.webgui.org/bazaar/underground-style <- this style took me about 2 hours to do, starting with an HTML/CSS template and making it into a WebGUI style
02:23 <@preaction> i'm also a programmer by trade, though i've got pretty strong HTML/CSS
02:24 < Mech422> the biggest problem we have with nav is people always want 'exceptions' - "move this to the top of the nav", "only show this if that" - since plone autogenerates nav, 'exceptions' are a pain
02:25 <@preaction> "only show this" is easy in WebGUI, the only things that show up in navs are assets the user is allowed to see
02:25 <@preaction> "move this to the top" is also easy, WebGUI uses a "rank" system to order assets in navigations
02:25 <@preaction> the Asset Manager manages the Rank of the asset. type in a new rank and click "Update" and it's moved
02:26 < Mech422> plone considers security - but there's not a 'rank' type feature
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02:26 < Mech422> oh - Here's Donna (SnowWrite)
02:27 < Mech422> She does a bunch of Plone Skinning
02:27 < SnowWrite_> :-) heard you guys were talking about skinning for WebGui :-) couldn't resist
02:27 < SnowWrite_> what templating language does WebGui use?
02:27  * SnowWrite_ checks
02:27 <@preaction> otherwise, if you need more flexibility over "Only show X if Y" then you can write a macro, the easiest thing to do for dev
02:27 <@preaction> by default, right now, HTML::Template
02:28 <@preaction> if you want, it can use HTML::Template::Expr or Template Toolkit
02:30 < Mech422> Hmm - I18N looks pretty simple - no mucking about with getText like plone :-P
02:30 < Mech422> just a module for each language with a dict of values ?
02:30 <@preaction> nope. there's even a translation server to make a translation for you: http://i18n.webgui.org
02:30 <@preaction> yeah, essentially
02:31 < Mech422> cool :-)
02:32 < SnowWrite_> hm, sexy template, http://www.lrnelson.com/ - not too sure about the green but I like the overall look
02:33 <@preaction> navigation template in the bottom left could use some zazz
02:33 <@preaction> same with the Article
02:33 <@tavisto> I just recently put a bunch of those sites in the sightings area
02:33 <@tavisto> there are hundreds of sites that still need to be posted.... 
02:34 <@preaction> tavisto, you're doing that for all the PB hosted sites? ;)
02:34 <@tavisto> the other sites listed at the bottom of that site are also powered by WebGUI
02:34 <@tavisto> no, but that's what I mean...
02:34 <@tavisto> there are hundreds that aren't posted.
02:34 <@tavisto> I've been putting up a bunch of the ones I know about. But we have all sorts of types that aren't on there yet. In addition, I have a whole pile of success stories going up on the pb site
02:35 <@preaction> wonder who did these sites, they're nice
02:35 < SnowWrite_> some of them are really nice
02:35 <@preaction> lazybones! get to it!
02:39 <@tavisto> alright gang I'm off... ttyl
02:39 <@preaction> cya
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02:41 <@preaction> apeiron, perlmonkey2, perlDreamer: quick question for you guys: Would it be a Bad Idea to refactor WebGUI::AssetBranch->www_editBranchSave to have an WebGUI::Asset->editBranch method?
02:41 <@preaction> the only way i can see this working is if it accepts a hashref of { name => value, } and also { name => sub { ... } }
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02:42 <@preaction> the sub would get the asset as its first arg and would return the value to be saved
02:42 <@preaction> this way we could build the URLs based on the asset's parent
02:43 <@apeiron> preaction, www_editBranchSave is too big to fit on my screen; for that reasoning alone I say refactor it.
02:43 <@apeiron> (my terminal has 59-60 some lines)
02:43 <@preaction> but the optional subref thing... is that too complicated? is there a simpler way to do it?
02:44 < Mech422> WOW! lineage looks slick!
02:44 <@preaction> there seems a goodly amount of places we could be using subrefs like this that would simplify some of our code, this is one of them
02:44 < Mech422> why didn't I think of something like that ?  I've been mucking around with self-referential table joins to do that sort of thing !
02:44 <@perlmonkey2> I like it
02:45 <@preaction> Mech422, god yes. lineage is a lifesaver when working with the asset tree
02:45 < Mech422> I've been beating my head silly trying to figure out how to eager load children etc etc.... 
02:45  * Mech422 bows to #webgui
02:45 <@preaction> yeah, i was saying the same thing first time i saw lineage
02:46 <@preaction> walking up the tree using just the parentId is painful
02:46 < Mech422> oh! btw - consider that idea stolen^H^H^H^H^H^H borrowed...
02:46 < Mech422> that is just too dam cool
02:46 <+perlDreamer> 1st, build tests
02:46 <+perlDreamer> then, refactor
02:46 <@preaction> if you use webgui, you don't have to stea^W borrow it
02:46 <+perlDreamer> anything else is WebGUI 8
02:47 <@preaction> perlDreamer, i hate you, but i shall do as you request
02:47 <@preaction> ;)
02:47 <+perlDreamer> :)
02:47 < Mech422> preaction: true - but its just such a cool general purpose idea...
02:47 <@preaction> indeed
02:48 < Mech422> preaction: like it would fit nicely in a 'category' system I'm doing for a banner ad server
02:48 < Mech422> I was using self-referential joins to allow me to get an object and all its children in 1 query - but its just sooo clunky compared to lineage
02:48 <+perlDreamer> Mech422: WebGUI has a banner ad system built in
02:49 < Mech422> perlDreamer: :-D
02:49 <@preaction> not just banner images, any HTML really
02:49 <+perlDreamer> Keep going, SquOnk, you're almost at 50%!
02:50 <+perlDreamer> preaction, also Flash, right?
02:50 <@preaction> yup
02:50 <@preaction> <object>, <embed>, or just <p> if you're lazy
02:52 <@preaction> okay... what would you devs say to an extensible www_editBranch. such that (for example) the MessageBoard asset could expose more stuff to edit multiple Collab Systems at once
02:52 <@preaction> or Gallery could edit multiple Albums at once
02:52 <+perlDreamer> extensibility that isn't available in the generic UI isn't useful (IMO)
02:53 <@preaction> how so?
02:53 <+perlDreamer> in other words, if it doesn't work one level up, then users would see a different UI
02:53 <@preaction> ah
02:53 <+perlDreamer> But I'm also assuming an implementation
02:53 <@preaction> there is that
02:54 <+perlDreamer> and limitnig you mad creative genius
02:54 <@preaction> i wasn't planning on making an implementation really, just a better way of doing edit branch. right now it assumes only two asset types: WebGUI::Asset and WebGUI::Asset::Wobject. if I use the definition() to detect fields I can allow all type
02:55 <@preaction> but yeah, there is that roadblock
02:56 <@preaction> okay, editBranch() won't be limited, if necessary it will do detecting to prevent errors. a new view could be added to those assets I mentioned that makes use of the editBranch() method
02:56 <@preaction> it's something to ponder though. and editBranch needs to be done as a workflow anyway (since it can take more time than a browser allows)
03:04 <+perlDreamer> yes!
03:04 <+perlDreamer> It must be a workflow
03:04 <+perlDreamer> that notifies the user somehow at the end
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03:23 < dionak> quick question if anyone knows. i'm writing a test that creates a product and variant info and then executes a macro that queries the db for the variant info for all products. i'm not getting the behavior i'm expecting. do i need to commit the test version tag or update the product asset to get the test values to populate in the db? 
03:23 <@preaction> you might need to, if the macro isn't being run under the same session
03:23 < dionak> it's not...
03:24 < dionak> oh, wait. yes, it should be the same session
03:24 <@preaction> yeah, unless you're specifically opening a new session, you shouldn't need to
03:24 < dionak> ok, thanks
03:25 < dionak> just curious if setCollateral automatically populated the db or was stored in memory. 
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03:37 <@preaction> automatically populates the DB
03:42 < dionak> oh, it looks like i have the asset in memory and not in the db. 
03:43 <@preaction> did you use addChild?
03:43 < dionak> yes
03:43 < dionak> i could show you the code in pastebin
03:44 <@preaction> then the asset should be in the database
03:44 <@preaction> okay
03:45 < dionak> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m16af69d0
03:46 < dionak> adding variants works fine in the web interface, just wanted to expand the test for the macro
03:46 < dionak> the macro thinks there are no webinar products with a price of 0. just a sanity check on the code would help
03:46 < dionak> btw, i didn't know the new windows was out...just saw a commercial
03:46 < dionak> dionak is a mac user
03:47 <@preaction> windows 7 is out? or "Mojave"?
03:47 < dionak> guess so...
03:47 < dionak> Mojave
03:47 < dionak> a commercial just came on advertising that people should upgrade
03:47 <@preaction> Mojave is Vista
03:47 <@preaction> http://mojaveexperiment.com
03:48 <@preaction> they're trying to get over the stigma
03:48 < dionak> interesting..
03:48 < dionak> wonder if they fixed anything
03:49 < dionak> guess they did via software patches and now need to overcome the initial problems
03:49 <@preaction> they fixed a lot, i've used it and it works fine if I don't care about program compatibility
03:49 <@preaction> it's still a huge break in the windows API
03:51 <@preaction> dionak, your test looks okay to me, but i'm not very up on the product collateral code. perlDreamer could help more
03:51 < dionak> ok, thanks for looking doug
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04:13 < elnino> Mech4221 - webgui is pretty cool,I've been using it for two years now, and usually when I think I have to do something "custom" they've already thought of it, and it just ends up being something that needs tweeking. Macros are easy to write, and everyhting I've seen pretty clean code. Before going 'custom'make sure you ask, so you don't reinvent the wheel. Webgui is really feature rich.
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06:11 <+perlDreamer> preaction, are you awake?
06:12 <+perlDreamer> I can't believe the guy that posted the XSS bug about WebGUI
06:12 <+perlDreamer> "Please contact us if you want a patch"
06:13 <+perlDreamer> why in the world wouldn't they submit the patch to the bug?
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10:58 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7836 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/t/Asset/AssetExportHtml.t: fix writing to root and depending on config file values
10:58 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7837 /WebGUI/t/Asset/AssetExportHtml.t: forward port test fixes for AssetExportHtml
10:58 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7838 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/lib/WebGUI/ (AssetExportHtml.pm International.pm i18n/English/Asset.pm): begin internationalizing AssetExportHtml error messages. This required adding a new character to the safe regexp in International.pm
10:58 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7839 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/t/Asset/AssetExportHtml.t: update test to reflect error message changes
10:58 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7840 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 3 dirs): forward port i18n AssetExportHtml error messages
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17:43 < CIA-39> WebGUI: chrisn * r7841 /WebGUI/docs/credits.txt: fix typo
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05:11 < elnino> Hi all! Not EXACTLY webui question, but somewhat related. =)  Is there a typical port to use when installing a second instance of apache? - 
05:19 <@Haarg> not really
05:19 <@Haarg> there are some used commonly, like 8080, but it really doesn't make much difference
05:23 < elnino> ok. thanks.
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05:47 < elnino> help. I need to shutdown everything and I'm unable to use wreserver to stop anything. I'm geting a "malformed JSON string, neither array, object, number, string or atom, at character offset 0 ["(end of string)"] at /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/Config/JSON.pm line 135." error for some reason. Ideas?
05:48 <@Haarg> possibly something wrong with your wre.conf file
05:52 < elnino> yikes!  it's size 0. That's bad.
05:53 < elnino> happened 12 hours ago.  Very bad.
05:56 < elnino> which logfile tells you who logs in again? Auth.log isn't telling me much
06:05 < elnino> what is the recommended ownership of the wre and webgui configuration files?
06:10 <@preaction> root owned, apache readable
06:12 < elnino> so... 701? did I do my math correct?
06:12 <@Haarg> not executable
06:12 <@Haarg> so 601 or 611
06:13 < elnino>  for al of wre and webgui configuration files?
06:14 <@preaction> should be fine
06:15 <@preaction> 610 might work depending on the group ownership
06:17 <@Haarg> they probably don't need to be readable by anyone but root actually
06:17 < elnino> it's currenty root:root
06:18 < elnino> and they are currently 644 which is -rw-r--r--
06:18 < elnino> or am I doning my math wrong again..
06:18 <@Haarg> no, that's correct
06:19 < elnino> ok. so 644 root:root and some of them are webgui:webgui
06:19 <@Haarg> sorry, i was mistaken.  644 or 604 is probably what you want.
06:20 <@Haarg> if you make them all chgrp webgui, you could do 640
06:21 < elnino> ok. well. I'm really confused then what could of happned. i disabled root to ssh. and I have the only account that can log in. so when I was logged in, I found that my drive was maxed. so I deleted all old log files and finally got that cleared up.
06:22 < elnino> but then saw that my wre.conf was size zero. 
06:22 <@preaction> what version of Config::JSON are you using?
06:22 < elnino> umm.. I have wre. 085
06:23 < elnino> I may have installed JSON thru cpan because of the gotchas. but I don't know because I have several servers.
06:23 < elnino> let me look if test environment gives me any thing.
06:23 <@preaction> i would suspect that the WRE tried to change its config, the monitor perhaps, which destroyed the config and then when it tried to rewrite it failed somehow (no disk space maybe)
06:24 <@preaction> Config::JSON is most likely culprit. it should do it more safely (try to write a temp config, then replace the old config only if the temp config is successfully written)
06:24 <@Haarg> backup script alters the config file
06:25 <@Haarg> so that seems the likely cause
06:26 < elnino> I thought I disabled your back up script. I have my own. mybe the upgrade from 083 to 084 and 085 overwrote it.
06:26 <@preaction> you can grab a backup WRE config from the wre's backup, if you still had that going
06:29 < elnino> I did.
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06:30 < elnino> currently everything is still shut down. I'm just trying to make sure everything is as it should be before I start up again. That was scary, so I'm hoping you're correct about the JSON thing.
06:31 < elnino> I'n having a difficutl time determining the version of JSON. perldoc perllocal didn't list it.
06:31 <@Haarg> perl -mJSON -e'print JSON->VERSION, "\n"'
06:32 <@preaction> it's Config::JSON, the JSON module doesn't write files
06:32 < elnino> 2.05
06:32 <@preaction> so like that, but Config::JSON instead
06:32 < elnino> 1.1.4
06:32 <@preaction> you should have 1.14 i believe, the latest version. i fixed a bug relating to this, but i didn't anticipate the drive full issue
06:33 <@preaction> so this might be a bug in there
06:33 < elnino> I hope you mean 1.1.4
06:33 <@preaction> yeah
06:33 < elnino> I didn't either!
06:34 < elnino> I was at 67%. I cleaned up and am now at 46% usage. So that's good. Glad I could be a test bed.  Would you like mt ot open a bug report?
06:35 < elnino> yep: http://search.cpan.org/~rizen/Config-JSON-1.1.4/lib/Config/JSON.pm  1.1.4 is the latest
06:38 <@preaction> 67%? your disk wasn't rull?
06:38 <@preaction> er.. full
06:38 < elnino> it was. but I cleane dit up.
06:39 <@preaction> yeah you might want to open a report just to make sure we remember
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06:54 < elnino> hmm.  Trying to start up everything, but mod_perl fails. Looked at the log file and it says that /userSession is marked as crashed and should be repaired. 
06:54 < elnino> is webgui myISAM?
06:58 <@preaction> yes
06:59 < elnino> ok. thanks
07:05 < elnino> hmmm. I'm getting a blank screen when trying to search webgui.org. 
07:15 < elnino> all is well now.  Thanks for your help preaction and Haarg!
07:15 <@Haarg> there's a bug report about the blank search thing.  i'm trying to fix it now.
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08:32 <+cap10morgan> Does the PerformanceProfiler still work?
08:32 <+cap10morgan> i get crazy high (and large negative) values from it for durations
08:32 <+cap10morgan> on 7.5.24
08:33 <+cap10morgan> and it gobbles up memory like it's going out of style
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23:10 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7842 /WebGUI/t/syntaxCheck.t: syntax check is faster, always runs, and tests for warnings as well
23:10 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7843 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Shortcut.pm): fixed: Shortcuts includes HTML head data twice
23:10 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7844 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Wobject/GalleryAlbum/permission.t: make GalleryAlbum test run, and fix it
23:10 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7845 /WebGUI/docs/ (changelog/7.x.x.txt upgrades/upgrade_7.6.0-7.6.1.pl): fixed: DataForm entry table isn't properly indexed
23:10 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7846 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: DataForm can't export fields containing newlines
23:10 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7847 /WebGUI/docs/ (4 files in 2 dirs): fixed: UserList templates use incorrect variable names
--- Day changed Mon Oct 06 2008
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02:38 < SynQ> hi there
02:38 < SynQ> 7.5.22-stable ?
02:39 < SynQ> that seems old to me
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02:55 < SynQ> hi there Radix
02:55 < SynQ> working day started allready huh?
03:11 < CIA-39> WebGUI: patspam * r7852 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Refactored exceptions
03:13 <+Radix-wrk> yup
03:13 <+Radix-wrk> 7.45am and I'm at work already
03:13 <+Radix-wrk> get to leave early in return tho ;)
03:14 < SynQ> early :)
03:14 <+Radix-wrk> How's things?
03:25 < SynQ> busy
03:25 < SynQ> very busy
03:25 < SynQ> right now i'm going to be
03:25 < SynQ> bed
03:25 < SynQ> I just finished a midnight database migration
03:29 < SynQ> later
03:49 <+Radix-wrk> nite :)
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11:18 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7855 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (5 files in 3 dirs): fixed: SelectSlider form control is broken
11:18 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7856 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (sbin/testEnvironment.pl docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt): fixed: testEnvironment.pl can't find WebGUI modules after installing a prerequisite
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11:56 < CIA-39> WebGUI: yung * r7857 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Fixed select slider and key/value pair support for list type form elements in Thingy
11:56 < CIA-39> WebGUI: yung * r7858 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Fixed select slider and key/value pair support for list type form elements in Thingy
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16:15 < SDuensin> Greetings.
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16:46 < CIA-39> WebGUI: yung * r7860 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): fixed: Combo box does not show possible values in Thingy
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18:49 < zylopfa> Greetings all
18:50 < zylopfa> I am making a paymentdriver for the danish PBS (joint payment provider for danish banks)
18:55 < dionak> wasn't there a newsletter feature in webgui? not seeing it on demo...
18:57 < zylopfa> dionak, you have to enable it in the config file for the site, its not enabled by default
18:58 <@rizen> it's enabled by default on beta.webgui.org
18:58 < dionak> ah..guess it's not enabled for the webgui demo 
18:59 <@rizen> and is defaultly enabled on all new 7.6 sites
18:59 < zylopfa> Ahh ok
18:59 < zylopfa> rizen, has there been worked on the newsletter asset?
19:00 <@rizen> nope, i just noticed that it wasn't in there when i was redoing the new content menu, so i added it
19:00 < zylopfa> Ahh ok
19:00 < zylopfa> Anyway i am making a new PaymentDriver
19:00 < zylopfa> I will share it with the community when i am done
19:00 <@rizen> dionak: the newsletter asset is only useful if you enable content profiling
19:01 < dionak> i like the warning telling me to enable content profiling
19:01 < dionak> very helpful
19:01 < zylopfa> yeah
19:02 < dionak> zylopfa, i'm sure the other dutch users will appreciate it. 
19:02 < zylopfa> Danish ;D
19:02 < zylopfa> If the paypal driver is not made yet I will also make that
19:02 <@rizen> zylopfa: very cool
19:02 < dionak> haha, yea. not that we don't appreciate it. 
19:02 < zylopfa> Its a good exercice in webgui api
19:02 < dionak> that would be great!
19:03 < zylopfa> I realy love the pluggability of webgui
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19:04 < BartJol> Someone already has done something with paypall
19:04 < BartJol>  Ibelieve
19:04 < BartJol> I think Jori
19:04 < BartJol> Joeri
19:05 < zylopfa> yeah i think so too
19:05 < zylopfa> was announced a while ago that it would be in 7.6
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19:05 < dionak> when is 7.6 due again?
19:05 <+perlDreamer> 7.6 is stable in January
19:06 < dionak> cool, that's not far off
19:06 < zylopfa> I wonder when payment gateways will be cheap to use
19:07 < BartJol> mm, it's not in the site i expected ir to be
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19:09 < dionak> btw, rizen. when developers add new columns to the database, when do the upgrade scripts get updated with that info?
19:12 <@preaction> dionak, the previousVersion.sql and create.sql are created as part of the build process
19:13 <@Haarg> all database changes are done through upgrade scripts
19:13 < dionak> i ask because i recently updated, deleted my test local db and then recreated and was still missing columns. i'll try it again this evening. 
19:13 <@perlmonkey2> Should you ever have a Post with the same idea as its Thread?
19:14 <@perlmonkey2> s/idea/id/
19:14 < zylopfa> I bought the developers guide
19:14 < zylopfa> from plainblack
19:14 <@Haarg> the thread is a post, so yes
19:15 <@perlmonkey2> that makes my head hurt.
19:15 < zylopfa> The thread is the parent?
19:15 <@preaction> post is the parent class of thread, yes
19:16 <@perlmonkey2> preaction: then there is nothing really wrong with the first link we were talking about?  And it also can't be moved in the Thread?
19:17 <@preaction> no, there's nothing really wrong. but no it can't be moved (since the Thread post is always first)
19:17 <@perlmonkey2> The PostThread will always be the first Post in its Thread?
19:17 <@preaction> yes
19:21 <@perlmonkey2> preaction: so in order to get rid of the first post in that thread, I'll need to create a new thread of the second post then move all the other posts to it and then have it replace the original postthread.
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19:21 <@preaction> you should be able to just add a new post with the Thread post's contents and then remove the thread post's contents
19:22 < Lisette> how to do an utility that add products?
19:22 <@preaction> Lisette, Products are just assets, so the same way you'd add an asset
19:23 < Lisette> thanks
19:26 < zylopfa> I like the new payment system
19:28 <+perlDreamer> Lisette, you can look at /data/WebGUI/t/Asset/Sku/Product.t for examples.
19:30 <@rizen> perlmonkey2: no, if you get rid of the threads, all posts after it follow, period
19:31 <@rizen> perlmonkey2: in other words, don't jury rig something to generate some post as a thread that wasn't originally a thread
19:34 <@perlmonkey2> rizen: I'm just going t take the second post, move its info to the first, then delete the second.
19:34 <@rizen> why are you doing this at all?
19:35 <@perlmonkey2> they dont' want the first post anymore
19:35 <@perlmonkey2> not for thta 'section'
19:35 <@rizen> who is 'they'?
19:36 < zylopfa> Cant it be done altering the template?
19:42 < zylopfa> I need to ask a question. I am making this payment driver and i was wondering if i could locate a transaction id, based on the cartId
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19:45 < miloidrr> Hi, perldreamer how are you?. I have a question about a cs. I'm checking the WebGUI Versions 7.4.40 and  7.5.23 but i don't found the karma options. Do you know something about this?  
19:46 < miloidrr> In The new version it not appear
19:50 < BartJol> miloidrr: maybe a stupid question, but you did enable it in the sttings?
19:54 < miloidrr> In the world there is not any stupid question, but tks for your help bartjol
19:54 < BartJol> so you did enable it?
19:54 < miloidrr> Yes
19:54 < BartJol> because in 7.5.24 I do see the options
19:54 < miloidrr> yes i can see it now
19:55 < miloidrr> It was a mental lapse
19:55 < BartJol> ah
19:55 < BartJol> :)
19:55 <@rizen> zylopfa: no, cuz there is no transaction id yet at that point
19:56 < miloidrr> :)
19:58 < zylopfa> rizen, i thought as much. I am making something wrong then
19:58 < zylopfa> I am creating a payment driver, where it only should generate a pay button
19:59 < zylopfa> and with that i need to send an identifier for the payment
19:59 < zylopfa> so i can find the order when the paymentgateway calls back my callback function
19:59 < zylopfa> rizen, can you find a transaction based on a cartid?
20:00 < zylopfa> It goes like this: user presses pay button --> user enter details at paymentgw(carddetails) --> gets redirected to reciept at my place
20:00 < zylopfa> -> the reciept finishes the transaction 
20:01 < zylopfa> But the gateway then post callback to my site
20:01 < zylopfa> and from that i need to find the order
20:01 <@rizen> there still is no tranaction id at that point
20:01 <@rizen> because you're doing an off-site transaction
20:01 < zylopfa> maybe i do it in the wrong order
20:02 < zylopfa> yeah i am 
20:02 <@rizen> everything you said was correct, but...
20:02 <@rizen> hold on...looking something up
20:04 <@rizen> ok...
20:04 <@rizen> your postback method
20:05 <@rizen> needs to call processTransaction
20:05 <@rizen> which creates the transaction
20:05 <@rizen> from the cart
20:05 < zylopfa> but rizen 
20:05 < zylopfa> Its the payment gateway that call the method
20:05 < zylopfa> and he don't know the details
20:06 < zylopfa> I mean the card/cookiedetails/users session is lost 
20:06 < zylopfa> so it wont be able to know what to process
20:06 <@rizen> i understand that
20:06 < zylopfa> unless it has some kind of identifier
20:06 <@rizen> just listen
20:06 < zylopfa> ok
20:06 <@rizen> create a method called www_postBackFromProvider
20:07 <@rizen> the provider passes back the cart id
20:07 <@rizen> which you sent to it
20:07 < zylopfa> aaah ofc
20:07 < zylopfa> THANKS A LOT!!
20:07 < zylopfa> lol i did it differnet
20:08 < zylopfa> and then i put:  $cart->getId(); in the push-button-form!
20:08 <@rizen> right
20:08 < zylopfa> You are awesome
20:08 <@rizen> and then in www_postBackFromProvider you instanciate the cart 
20:08 <@rizen> using the cart id
20:09 < zylopfa> and then create transaction
20:09 <@rizen> yup
20:09 < zylopfa> can i ask some last thing
20:09 <@rizen> nope
20:09 < zylopfa> ok
20:09 <@rizen> i don't answer questions when you ask whether you can ask them
20:09 <@rizen> =)
20:09 <@rizen> of course if you just ask, then i'll answer
20:09 <@rizen> =)
20:10 < zylopfa> ok, the user get a "confitmation screen" from my site (he gets redirected to it from gw)
20:10 < zylopfa> and in "parallel" the callback script gets called
20:10 < BartJol> and you can recognise him when he says "shut up and listen, I'm god"
20:10 < zylopfa> Then i ask: should i pr. default say to user "your order has been completed"
20:10 < BartJol> sorry...
20:11 < zylopfa> Because i cant expect the callback to be called first
20:11 < zylopfa> depends on the speed of the payment gateway
20:11 <@rizen> right
20:11 <@rizen> you probably should say
20:11 <@rizen> "we're processing your order"
20:11 < zylopfa> yeah, here are your preliminary details
20:12 <@rizen> and "when your order has been processed, it will show up in <link>your account history</link>"
20:12 < zylopfa> and then list the "invoice"
20:12 < zylopfa> yeah good idea
20:12 <@rizen> and link them to the my transactions page
20:12 < zylopfa> ahh yeah
20:12 < zylopfa> This is so awesome
20:13 <@rizen> another thing we could do for 7.6
20:14 <@rizen> is allow you to create the transaction in advance
20:14 <@rizen> and pass it in to processTransaction()
20:14 <@rizen> so that you could use the transaction id
20:14 <@rizen> instead of the cart
20:14 < zylopfa> ahh yeah, could be a good idea
20:14 < zylopfa> and then flag it "partial" or something
20:14 < zylopfa> rizen, maybe if the payment-gw is smart, it wont redirect the user to me before it posted to callback?
20:15 <@rizen> who knows though...can't rely on systems you don't control
20:15 < zylopfa> indeed
20:15 < zylopfa> better make it robust
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20:46 < zylopfa> Whats wrong with the following? :
20:46 < zylopfa>   my $fields = $session->form->paramsHashRef();
20:46 < zylopfa>   my $cartid = %$fields{'reference'};
20:46 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, that new syntax check test is fast!
20:46 <@preaction> zylopfa, syntax error. my $cartid = $fields->{'reference'}
20:47 <@preaction> zylopfa, see perldoc perldsc or perldoc perlref for more info
20:47 < zylopfa> but dont it need to be dereferenced?
20:47 <@preaction> -> is the deref operator
20:47 < zylopfa> i need to learn hashes
20:47 < zylopfa> and programming
20:48 <@Haarg> it's nice to have it run faster.  might convince people to use it more.
20:48 < zylopfa> I love the perl developer book, that it start with testing
20:49 < zylopfa> that shows the webgui is very onto good coding
20:49 < zylopfa> the webgui team
20:50 < zylopfa> Haarg, i also noticed that when you choose what group will get the notification of a new sale on the site
20:51 < zylopfa> and you choose a group like "ShopKeepers"
20:51 < zylopfa> then the Admin group will still get an email
20:51 < zylopfa> is this a feature?
20:51 <@Haarg> yes, the admin group is a member of all groups by default
20:52 < zylopfa> ahh ok
20:53 < zylopfa> Makes no sense to make more than 1 admin 
20:53 < zylopfa> you can make sub-admins or helpers and so
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20:59 < miloidrr> PerlDreamer hi, i have a question about the karma in the gallery of the webgui version 7.5.23
20:59 <+perlDreamer> okay, I don't know much about the gallery, but please ask
21:00 <@preaction> i wasn't sure karma was part of the Gallery
21:00 <+perlDreamer> preaction, maybe we should ask the guy who wrote it
21:00 <@preaction> that jerk? i'm not so sure about that
21:00 <+perlDreamer> Hey, he's not a jerk.  He's just kind of touchy
21:00 <@preaction> but he doesn't have to be so MEAN
21:01 <+perlDreamer> Indeed.
21:01 < miloidrr> I cant see this option in this
21:01 <@preaction> which option?
21:01 < zylopfa> perlDreamer, if there are any one who want additional payment driver, i shall make them on request
21:02 <+perlDreamer> zylopfa, I'd read through the boards on webgui.org
21:02 < zylopfa> roger that
21:02 <+perlDreamer> I think someone requested a driver or too
21:02 <+perlDreamer> also, check RFEs
21:02 < miloidrr> Karma option in the asset gallery
21:02 < zylopfa> Sweet
21:02 <@preaction> miloidrr, there isn't any
21:04 < BartJol> miloidrr: maybe if you want karma in a gellery, you can use the cs with the photo gallery template
21:04 < miloidrr> This option isn't enable to the asset gallery?
21:05 <@preaction> miloidrr, there is no karma in the gallery asset, no.
21:05 < miloidrr> :-(
21:08 < zylopfa> I have a question again :D
21:08 < zylopfa> In the payment PayDriver i make, the callback gets called from the paymentGW
21:08 < zylopfa> and i was wondering if the parameters then 
21:08 < zylopfa> sub www_callback {
21:08 < zylopfa>   my $self    = shift;
21:08 < zylopfa>   my $session = $self->session;
21:09 < zylopfa> The $self is wrong isn't it? cause its not been instantiated?
21:09 < zylopfa> so it only gets the $session passed in right?
21:09 <@preaction> where is this callback being called from? are you sure it's not instantiated?
21:10 < zylopfa> Its from the paymentgateqay
21:10 < zylopfa> they call this method through a POST
21:10 <@preaction> right, but follow the entire flow of the request
21:10 < zylopfa> yeah the callback is called from the PayDriver
21:10 < zylopfa>  my $cart = WebGUI::Shop::Cart->new($session,"$cartid");
21:10 < zylopfa>  my $paydriver = WebGUI::Shop::PayDriver->new($session,"$driverid");
21:10 < zylopfa>  my $transaction = WebGUI::Shop::Transaction->create({ cart=>$cart, paymentMethod=>$paydriver});
21:11 < zylopfa> gives me errors that something is an unblessed reference
21:11 <@preaction> zylopfa, stop pasting to the channel
21:11 < zylopfa> sorry Sir
21:11 <@preaction> and what is the unblessed reference?
21:11 < zylopfa> thr transaction
21:12 < zylopfa> the
21:12 <@preaction> you mean the line that's creating the transaction?
21:13 < zylopfa> yeah
21:13 <@preaction> so then $cart or $paydriver are undefined
21:13 < zylopfa> I will debug that then thanks
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21:19 < elnino> hi!  This last upgrade that I did that converted non-utf8 to utf-8 did quite the number on our site. We have a LOT of "boxes" and "question marks" where there were copywrite and registered marks. Is there a way to do a global fix for these? we're looking at 200-300 pages we need to fix.
21:24 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7861 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (lib/WebGUI/Session/Url.pm docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt): fixed: Cross site scripting issue on operation pages
21:24 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7862 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Session/Url.pm): fixed: Cross site scripting issue on operation pages
21:24 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7863 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Search.pm): fixed: Search asset shows blank page after searching
21:25 < dionak> the most direct route would probably be a script to convert the characters to utf-8 in the db
21:27 < dionak> is there a way to upload a compressed archive of images to webgui media and have webgui uncompress the archive?
21:27 < elnino> Apparantly that is what the upgrade did. 
21:27 < elnino> there is an asset call ziparchive - that may wwork for you.
21:28 < elnino> although it doesn't put it in the media folder structure.
21:28 < elnino> hmm, but it would if youwere in the media folder in the asset manager.
21:31 < elnino> so - anyway, the upgrade script is what converted all the data into utf-8. the copyright and registered markes were not utf-8 before. but they are now, and they are displayed as boxes or question marks depending on the browser used. So apparantly not all utf-8 characters are supported in html? So maybe I need to do something in my page layout to display utf-8?
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21:36 < dionak> is your charset in the meta tags utf-8? not sure if this will help, just curious
21:36 <+perlDreamer> elnino, it would unpack the zip file in a storage location, outside of the asset hierarchy
21:38 < dionak> so a content manager couldn't use this to upload an archive of images right?
21:38 <+perlDreamer> Asset::File::Images, no.  jpegs and gifs, yes
21:38 < dionak> looks like this asset might be intended to display the contents of the archive on a particular page
21:38 <+perlDreamer> yes, exactly
21:39 <+perlDreamer> Maybe in addition to FilePile, we need CompressedPile
21:39 <+perlDreamer> using Archive::Any to unpack and then deferring to FilePile type asset creation
21:46 < elnino> perlDreamer, dionak  - that's a bummer. Sorry to mislead.
21:46 < dionak> np
21:46 < elnino> dionak - yep. My meta tags is set to utf-8 currently.
21:47 < elnino> So I don't know what else I need to do to make these characters display correctly. If I look at the source of the html, the registered and copyright symbols show up correctly, just not in the browser.
21:47 < dionak> my last guess is that the browser doesn't handle utf-8 characters correctly. Is it IE? 
21:48 <@preaction> no, the issue was that iso-8897-1 (latin-1) chars were being saved to a utf-8 field. those chars need to be replaced with &copy; &reg; and the other HTML entities for those characters
21:50 < elnino> preaction - so I'm confused, that if the update converted iso-8897-1 to utf-8, why they don't appear correctly? what were they converted to?
21:50 < dionak> so is it correct in thinking that IE doesn't handle &#169? Haven't tested. I usually use &copy
21:51 < elnino> I'm pretty sure it's ie and firefox. let me double check...
21:53 < elnino> yep. firefox doesn't display it either. nor does safari
21:53 < elnino> In the code it doesn't show &#169; either, it literally shows a registered mark. I'm using notepad to view it. So it got converted to something weird, not &copy; and not &reg;
21:53 < elnino> http://www.comtrol.com/comtrol-news/press-releases/comtrollodginglinkandrsi - is the page.
21:54 <@preaction> elnino, because it was latin-1 being stored in utf-8 fields. we converted to binary, and then converted back, and the latin-1 codepoints don't correspond to utf-8 codepoints (except for the most basic characters)
21:54 <@preaction> worse, it was probably cp-whatever, the windows encoding
21:54 < dionak> so it's a bug
21:54 <@preaction> no, it's not
21:54 < elnino> ah. it was windows. I just didn't know how it couldn't display if it was correctly converted to utf-8.
21:55 <@preaction> notepad is using the encoding that it was made with, Latin-1
21:55 < elnino> but it seems that it wasn't converted correctly.
21:55 <@preaction> Latin-1 and utf-8 have overlap
21:56 < elnino> well, if I write a sql statement or something to convert x to &copy; what is x?
21:56 <@preaction> x is the character, copied and pasted, hopefully. it might work
21:57 <@preaction> there are a lot of things that do auto-conversion, perl is one of them. so it may work, it may not
21:57 < elnino> and it appears that it only occured in title and menutitle fields, correct? the article assests seem to be still ok - from what we've seen so far.
21:58 < elnino> I gues I don't understand what I'm converting. utf-8 to utf-8? 
21:58 < elnino> or is it bcause not all of utf-8 is presentable via html?
21:58 <@preaction> no, you're converting iso-8897 to an HTML entity
21:58 < elnino> I already did the upgrade.. it's been converted.
21:59 < elnino> Am I confused?
22:00 < elnino> this is all an enigma to me.
22:00 <@preaction> character encoding is hell
22:01 < dionak> so what was the character before it got mangled?
22:01 < elnino> I'm feeling the heat
22:01 <@preaction> the only comfort i can offer: copy/paste the character from one terminal window (the mysql output) to another (your fixer script), and change it to the proper HTML entity
22:02 < elnino> the character that was there before the upgrade was something most likely copied from MSWord.
22:03 < elnino> after the upgrade it was supposedly converted to utf-8
22:03 < dionak> oh, joy
22:03 < elnino> which now displays as a box or ? depending on browser.
22:03 <@preaction> the columns were converted, not necessarily the data
22:03 < elnino> In the source code using notepad, it shows upas a registered mark or copyright.
22:04 < elnino> preaction - OH!  so the data may still be whatever word is.
22:04 <@preaction> elnino, since the column was utf-8, but the data could've been anything (latin1 windows russian)
22:04 <@preaction> our columns were correct, but we weren't forcing anything for the data
22:04 <@preaction> that's changed
22:06 < elnino> if utf-8 is an encoding, what is latin1, widows, and russian called? are they subsets? or are they encoding too?
22:06 <@preaction> they're different encodings
22:07 < elnino> and msword uses iso-8897 encoding?
22:08 <@preaction> msword uses whatever you have set, but most likely cp-13.. something. there's a windows-specific encoding that shares a lot with latin-1
22:08 < elnino> so how do I explain what happened to the the data during the upgrade to marketing without scaring them?
22:08 < elnino> AND hopefully this type of thing won't happen again...
22:09 <@preaction> webgui fixed character encoding and translation issues, but some data was unable to be fixed (since we did not know what kind of characters they were). 
22:10 <@preaction> and as far as i know, this issue is fixed. we've got two major groups using the i18n and character encoding features of webgui, and they've had time to test
22:11 < elnino> oh. That reminds me, I was going to take a look at my translated pages. I hope they aren't boxes.
22:12 < elnino> crud.  about half of them made it thru.
22:14 <@preaction> graham may know how to fix those
22:14 <@preaction> or you might be able to use Word to change the encoding from whatever it was to utf-8
22:16 < elnino> I don't have word. =(  I have open office. I refuse to use or install word. 
22:17 < elnino> So, I put those pages up by coping from notepad. Are you saying notepad can handle any encoding? Could Ijust repaste them from notepad?
22:17 <@preaction> make the marketing team do it then? they need to know this in order to prevent it from happening again
22:17 <@preaction> you might be able to, but you'd need to make sure it was utf-8 before you pasted
22:17 <@preaction> i don't even know that Word can do this
22:17 <@preaction> it might just make it into gibberish
22:18 < elnino> so... to put a registered mark on a page.  do they type &reg; in the wysiwyg editor? or do they need to go to the html source?  
22:19 < elnino> I do believe they need to now type &copy; and &reg; in the menutitle and title from now on, right?
22:19 <@preaction> there's a button to "Insert HTML Entity"
22:19 <@preaction> i don't know
22:19 < elnino> oh. that works. ok. Let me play around wth this more.
22:19 <@preaction> in the HTML editor, the ? symbol
22:20 <@Haarg> if it doesn't work to copy and paste a &reg; symbol into the rich editor, what software are they using?
22:21 < elnino> Haarg - they are copyingn straight from word to the wysiwyg editor
22:23 < elnino>  - to the best of my knowledge. They *may* be coping from quark
22:26 < elnino> oh. interesting. I went tot hat page. clicked edit. it all appeared "correctly", so I made no modifications. Clicked save. and the marks have been "converted" to html entities.
22:26 < elnino> it didn't know what to do with the special "apostrophe" though.
22:29 < elnino> So if there is a way to write a script to "resave" every page in our site. That should do it. because apparantly somewhere between editing and saving it converts them correctly to entities.
22:30 <@preaction> it probably has to be saved from the front-end though
22:30 <@preaction> not even WWW::Mech could do it, since it doesn't do JS
22:32 < elnino> bummer.
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22:53 < zylopfa> DAmn i am still having problems coding this payment driver :(
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23:25 <@perlmonkey2> FYI for all you greenies.  Part of the bail out included a $7500 federal rebate for plug-in hybrids.
23:27 <@preaction> yay chevy volt!
23:28 < zylopfa> :D
23:28 < zylopfa> Anyone familiar with the PayDriver system in webgui?
23:28 < zylopfa> I am trying to make a cart object from a cartid
23:29 < zylopfa> but whenever i use any methods from the new object i get
23:29 < zylopfa> WebGUI::Shop::Address:166 - Address not in this address book.
23:29 < zylopfa> I think its because the system thinks the user (Visitor) doesn't own the address
23:30 < zylopfa> I need to use this user cause its the CallBack from the paymentgateway
23:31 < zylopfa> rizen, are you here ;D
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23:36 <+perlDreamer> zylopfa, address books are not user owned, they are owned by a "session".
23:37 < zylopfa> i just dont understand this
23:37 < zylopfa> it my payment driver and not all is done in the same session
23:38 < zylopfa> because its calling a website to do the creditcard checks
23:38 < zylopfa> and then it calls back 
23:38 <+perlDreamer> if you do it as visitor, and it creates a different session, you won't get the expected results
23:38 < zylopfa> But i have problems instantiating the Cart, in the callback
23:38 < zylopfa> but perlDreamer what to do :(
23:38 <+cap10morgan> is it possible to have both automatic ldap registration and anonymous registration at the same time?
23:39 <+perlDreamer> Can you have the remote website pass back the sessionId?
23:39 <+perlDreamer> that sounds dangerous, too
23:39 <+perlDreamer> for session hijacking
23:39 < zylopfa> perlDreamer, yeah i can 
23:39 < zylopfa> but i dont understand
23:39 < zylopfa> why i cant create an instance of the Cart
23:39 < zylopfa> and use it regardless
23:40 < zylopfa>   my $fields = $session->form->paramsHashRef();
23:40 < zylopfa>   my $cartid = $fields->{'reference'};
23:40 < zylopfa>   my $driverid = $fields->{'paymentGatewayId'};
23:40 < zylopfa>   my $cart = WebGUI::Shop::Cart->new($session,"$cartid");
23:40 < zylopfa>  
23:40 < zylopfa> that is what i do in the eecallback
23:40 < zylopfa> in the www_callback
23:41 < zylopfa> but when i access the methods in $cart, i get address book errors
23:41 < zylopfa> I mean if i make the object from the cart id, shouldnt it reflect the object with the details from the cartId?
23:41 < zylopfa> All information in the perldoc suggests so
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23:43 <+perlDreamer> zylopfa, preaction will kick you out of the channel if you keep doing that.
23:43 <+perlDreamer> use webgui.pastebin.com
23:43 < zylopfa> yeah sorry ok
23:44 < zylopfa> perlDreamer?
23:44 <+perlDreamer> yes?
23:44 < zylopfa> does it make sense to instantiate a whole new PayDriver object in the callback method?
23:44 <+perlDreamer> not if you have an existing one that's configured correctly
23:44 < zylopfa> no
23:45 < zylopfa> I just dont get why thisdont wotk
23:45 < zylopfa> work
23:45 < zylopfa> It cant be true that i have to do "select from card where cardid=xxx"
23:46 < zylopfa> when the object have methods for it
23:46 <+perlDreamer> but it's not the "cart" that you're having problems with, correct?
23:46 < zylopfa> well now it is
23:46 <+perlDreamer> this is what I suggest.
23:46 < zylopfa> cause in order to make the transaction final i need to use the card object
23:47 < zylopfa> mysite -> paymentgw -> callback-function on my site
23:47 < zylopfa> thats how it goes
23:47 < zylopfa> so i need to recreate the Cart, and i have the cart id
23:48 <+perlDreamer> you use the ->new method
23:48 < zylopfa> my $cart = WebGUI::Shop::Cart->new($session,"$cartid");
23:48 < zylopfa> yes
23:48 <+perlDreamer> and you're saying that throws an error?
23:48 < zylopfa> and i get the cartid from the paymentgw when it post to me
23:49 < zylopfa> no not that call
23:49 <+perlDreamer> which call?
23:49 < zylopfa> but when i access the $cart objects methods
23:49 < zylopfa> my $total = $cart->calculateTotal();
23:49 <+perlDreamer> which object methods?
23:49 < zylopfa> I did that just to test
23:49 < zylopfa> if i could use the object
23:49 <+perlDreamer> to calculateTotal, it calculates shipping, which requires an address
23:49 <+perlDreamer> and tax, which requires an address
23:50 < zylopfa> but perlDreamer 
23:50 <+perlDreamer> I think you're having the same, old problem you described earlier
23:50 < zylopfa> the Card object has all those things
23:50 < zylopfa> Cart even
23:50 <+perlDreamer> can you paste the error from the webgui.log into a pastebin?
23:50 < zylopfa> yeah
23:51 < zylopfa> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m2edbe47c
23:52 < zylopfa> The first is just a debug to see if the CartId came through
23:52 < zylopfa> and i have looked in the cart table in the db, that the cart exist with that id
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23:55 <+perlDreamer> I will look at it in a bit
23:55 < zylopfa> thanks a lot
23:56 < zylopfa> btw. i have also checked that the cart items is present in the database
23:56 < zylopfa> So basically i can recreate the order from the data in the db. but its a nasty hack if i have to use sql instead of the build-in methods
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--- Day changed Tue Oct 07 2008
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00:02 < zylopfa> perlbot, I am a bit further in the investigation and i have tried to get the items from the cart through object methods
00:03 < zylopfa> and i am able to get them
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00:03 < zylopfa> Seems like a shipping address haven't been associated with the cart object
00:03 <+perlDreamer> Sounds vaguely familiar ;)
00:03 < zylopfa> which is odd, cause i choose an address in the start before i exited to the payment gw
00:04 < zylopfa> woops i ment perlDreamer 
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00:05 < zylopfa> Hmmm, no it cant be that cause a shippingAddress id is in the record in the database table cart
00:07 <+perlDreamer> Good luck, khenn_
00:07 < khenn_> with?
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00:08 <+perlDreamer> Bug/RFE upgrades today, yes?
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00:15 <+MrHairgrease> He's going to Lisbon!
00:15 <+MrHairgrease> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7908232974188401388&ei=MnzqSNuVEI2wiALavp2uCA&q=brian+d+foy&vt=lf
00:15 <+MrHairgrease> 1:58
00:15 <+perlDreamer> Huh?
00:16 <+perlDreamer> No video at work, most esteemed EuroTrash Dude
00:16 <+MrHairgrease> too bad
00:16 <+MrHairgrease> email it to yourself for when you are at home
00:17 <+perlDreamer> they are worried about the internet affecting our productivity
00:17 <+MrHairgrease> that's why they keep irc open
00:17 <+perlDreamer> exactly
00:17 <+MrHairgrease> that makes sense...
00:20 < zylopfa> perlDreamer, I am now trying to send the AddressId to the gateway also
00:20 < zylopfa> If it work then, I suggest some changes to the api
00:20 < zylopfa> because imo. the shipping address should be saved to the Cart object
00:31 <+cap10morgan> I'm using WebGUI::PerformanceProfiler on 7.5.24, but I get huge negative times for many calls. Is that normal?
00:33 <+MrHairgrease> dunno, but you might wanna try Devel::NYTProf::Apache
00:34 <+MrHairgrease> I have been playing with that for areally tiny bit
00:34 <+MrHairgrease> haven't been able to get the profiling data to be converted to something readble though
00:34 <+MrHairgrease> more info: http://perlbuzz.com/2008/07/develnytprof-will-knock-your-socks-off.html
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00:38 <+cap10morgan> MrHairgrease: cool, will check that out
00:38 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
00:39 <+MrHairgrease> if you know how to process the files it dumps in /tmp please let me know
00:41 <+cap10morgan> ok, i'll let you know if i figure anything out there
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00:57 < carogray> Is there some reason I should put a data email form on a page rather than just simply leave it as an asset with its own page style? ..other than the fact that I might want to display it in a collection of other assets?
00:58 < carogray> I am inclined to simply use it by itelf without creaing a page for it. what would be the drawbacks of this solution?
01:00 <@preaction> just what you mentioned, you can't put other assets around it on a page
01:00 < carogray> is that the ONLY drawback?
01:01 <@preaction> the only one i can think of
01:01 < carogray> that was the only one I could think of too. So I think I am just going to go with it - streamlining, doncha know. thanks preaction.
01:04 < dionak> lol, it's the palin effect...doncha know
01:06 < zylopfa> haah shit my payment providers gateway is down 
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01:18 < zylopfa> perlDreamer, 
01:18 < grink> zylopfa: who?
01:18 < zylopfa> I figured something out
01:18 < zylopfa> Its the danish PBS
01:18 < zylopfa> payment provider for all danish banks
01:18 < zylopfa> but its up again
01:18 <+perlDreamer> excellent!
01:19 < zylopfa> perlDreamer, you know the addressbook
01:19 <+perlDreamer> I am familiar with it
01:19 < zylopfa> whe it looks up the address for the order
01:19 < zylopfa> it does: select * from address where addressId='LqhhtazoYUwzGuoB70c3BA';
01:19 < zylopfa> which is good
01:19 < zylopfa> but! it dubble checks if its the sessions addressbook
01:20 < zylopfa> which makes it impossible to use callback
01:20 <+perlDreamer> this is also good, but unfortunate for what you are trying to do
01:20 < zylopfa> yes
01:20 < zylopfa> I backtracked the webgui code
01:21 < zylopfa> its crazy if i have to create an addressbook object myself
01:21 < zylopfa> to have the decired addressbook id
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01:24 <@preaction> the cart should have an address for you
01:24 < zylopfa> yes
01:24 < zylopfa> BUT
01:24 < zylopfa> The cart was created for the USER logged in
01:25 < zylopfa> And the callback function is called from the gateway
01:25 <@preaction> okay
01:25 < zylopfa> and it wont be logged in as other than visitor
01:25 <@preaction> so your gateway kinda works like Paypal, you go to an external site and then get sent back to webgui, right?
01:25 < zylopfa> so it cant readily access the addresses stored for the user making the purchace
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01:25 < zylopfa> Yes Sir
01:26 <@preaction> but when they come back, the session isn't the same?
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01:26 < zylopfa> preaction, the session the user gets returned to is the same
01:27 < zylopfa> but the GWserver that does callback has no usersession ofc
01:28 < zylopfa> preaction, I have to make some sql code in the new driver then
01:29 <@preaction> why? what do you need to give to the gateway?
01:29 < zylopfa> ok here it goes
01:29 < zylopfa> MY SIte -> gateway
01:29 < zylopfa> this stage i get over to gateway and put payment info
01:29 < zylopfa> which work fine ofc
01:29 < zylopfa> then next stage
01:30 < zylopfa> gateway REDIRECTS user to "grats on buying from us" page
01:30 < zylopfa> which works fine!
01:30 < zylopfa> BUT
01:30 < zylopfa> then the GATEWAY calls a callback url to inform on status of the transactrion
01:30 < zylopfa> THIS is whre it goes wrong
01:31 < zylopfa> I am not accepting a payment before i get ok from the gateway
01:31 < zylopfa> else its the same as taking candy from a child
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01:31 < zylopfa> Its 1 line in the addressbook for commerce that ruin it all
01:32 <@preaction> i'd post to the webgui dev list, there might be a better discussion there
01:32 < zylopfa> yeah i guess
01:32 <@preaction> perhaps adding your patch to remove that line
01:32 < zylopfa> maybe its there for another reason
01:32 < zylopfa> but i dont realy k now
01:34 < zylopfa> Or else i will override the processTransaction in my module
01:34 < zylopfa> so i hardcode what i want it to do 
01:38 < zylopfa> preaction, i just read more of the code
01:39 < zylopfa> and everything in the payment system is build to take user information from users logged in currently
01:39 < zylopfa> It never anticipated that the user might be Visitor, because thats how it is with callback
01:43 <@preaction> you'll have to put the Transaction in some sort of "Pending" state then
01:43 <@preaction> is that an option?
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01:50 < zylopfa> I think i got is soon
01:51 < zylopfa> FUCKING EEHHH
01:51 < zylopfa> preaction, I got it!!
01:52 < zylopfa> This is awesome
01:52 < zylopfa> Basically i made a new addressbook object, providing the addressbook id
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01:52 < zylopfa> and then i made a new adress object providing the address id
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04:48 < wgGuest43> sup
04:49 < wgGuest43> anyone here?
04:50 <@khenn> sorta
04:50 <@khenn> =)
04:52 < wgGuest43> :)
04:52 < wgGuest43> so i been looking around the site for this question i have and havn't found anything, so i thought i would try the chat
04:52 < wgGuest43> where is my question, is there any progress going on for forum intergration? 
04:52 <@khenn> what do you mean?
04:53 <@khenn> integration with what?
04:53 < wgGuest43> for example phpbb and IPB intergration. or at least when memebers register, they get registered on the forum aswell.
04:53 < wgGuest43> actually khenn, can you tell me what irc server this is please. i would like to join with my irc client :P
04:54 <@khenn> there isn't anything at the moment.  We've looked into PHPBB before and there really aren't any integration points or webservices that would enable us to incorporate Single Signon
04:54 <@khenn> this is freenode.net
04:54 <@khenn> #WebGUI
04:54 <@khenn> irc.freenode.net
04:54 < wgGuest43> awesome
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04:55 < Syphosis> much better
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04:55 < Syphosis> Do you know why there is isn't and intergration? because of the way the user groups are and stuff?
04:56 <@khenn> everything is different
04:56 <@khenn> we'd need some sort of web service or API integration points
04:57 <@khenn> PHP BB uses mysql so migration is a possibility
04:57 < Syphosis> IPB does aswell :D
04:57 <@khenn> so there you go
04:57 <@khenn> both can be migrated
04:57 < Syphosis> I know for other CMS'es, the intergration part all it does is add the username and password for the forum, and everything else is different
04:57 < Syphosis> like user groups and what not..
04:58 <@khenn> hmm
04:58 < Syphosis> so you have different user groups for the site, and the forums. which would be ok for me. but its not full intergration :P which is really not what i am looking for
04:58 <@khenn> I don't really know enough about them to be able to say how it could be done
04:58 <@khenn> or if it can be done
04:59 <@khenn> SSO might be able to be done with cookies
04:59 <@khenn> and storing info in the user profile
05:25 <@preaction> you could also do WebGUI auth with another forum system if you want. or write an auth module to integrate WebGUI's auth with the other system
05:27 <@preaction> i think the reason people don't is because it's easier to just migrate the content instead of trying to integrate the two systems
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07:41 < elnino> anyone use the newsletter feature here?
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09:55 < CIA-39> WebGUI: frank * r7864 /experimental/HelpDesk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): final changes. Ready to migrate
09:55 < CIA-39> WebGUI: frank * r7865 /experimental/HelpDesk/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/GetHelpDeskMail.pm: Fixed a syntax error
09:55 < CIA-39> WebGUI: frank * r7866 /experimental/HelpDesk/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/HelpDesk.pm: fixed a problem with install script
09:55 < CIA-39> WebGUI: frank * r7867 /experimental/HelpDesk/sbin/migrateHelpDesk.pl: commented out everything but RFEs which we are testing
09:55 < CIA-39> WebGUI: frank * r7868 /experimental/HelpDesk/sbin/migrateHelpDesk.pl: alumni bugs, rfes, medintellibase
09:55 < CIA-39> WebGUI: frank * r7869 /experimental/HelpDesk/sbin/migrateHelpDesk.pl: final 2 migrations
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11:28 < CIA-39> WebGUI: yung * r7870 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): Updated Thingy's edit instructions and search description fields to HTMLAreas
13:02 < CIA-39> WebGUI: yung * r7871 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): rfe: Thingy Private Rows
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16:01 < khenn_> morning
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16:54 < SDuensin> Greetings.
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18:08 <+crythias> anyone here?
18:14 <+crythias> perldreamer rizen tavisto bopbop apeiron haarg 
18:14 <@Haarg> crythias crythias crythias crythias crythias
18:14 <@rizen> just us chickens
18:14 <+crythias> hi
18:14 <@rizen> welcome, long time no see
18:14 <@tavisto> Who dares disturb the wizard!
18:15 <+crythias> how do I get  a search in a header to not return results but return results in a page?
18:15 <+crythias> that is, a search box... 
18:15 <@rizen> what version of webgui are you using?
18:15 <+crythias> ooh. ... I knew I shoulda known that
18:15 <@tavisto> hah.. rookie.
18:16 <+crythias> 7.5.21
18:16 <@rizen> 7.5 and above has a "Use Containers?" switch
18:16 <@rizen> in the properties tab of the search asset
18:17 <+crythias> checking.
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18:18 <+crythias> hrm.
18:18 <+crythias> not working.
18:18 <@rizen> maybe i don't understand what you are asking then
18:18 <+crythias> because I'm using asset proxy for the search window.
18:18 <@rizen> could you rephrase the question
18:19 <+crythias> I have header ... it has the search box in it, but the search results are coming in the header.
18:19 <@rizen> are you saying you want the search results to appear in the header of your site?
18:19 <@rizen> oh, you're saying you don't want them up there
18:19 <@rizen> and they are
18:19 <+crythias> I don't want that. I goofed using an asset proxy
18:19 <@rizen> right, you should just copy the HTML of the search form
18:19 <@rizen> into your header
18:19 <@rizen> rather than using an asset proxy
18:20 <+crythias> yep. that makes sense to me.
18:20 <+crythias> sounds like something I've told someone back in the day.
18:21 <@rizen> assetproxy copies functionality
18:21 <@rizen> you just want to copy the form
18:21 <@rizen> not the functionality
18:22 <+crythias> yeo
18:22 <+crythias> yep
18:22 <+crythias> dude. sweet
18:23 <@rizen> what's mine say? DUDE
18:23 <@rizen> what's mine say? SWEET
18:23 <+crythias> What about mine?
18:23 <+crythias> SUHWEET
18:23 <@rizen> DUDE
18:24 <@rizen> so crythias, does this mean you're back in the game?
18:24 <+perlDreamer> nice app, khenn_
18:24 <+perlDreamer> Bug tracker looks cool
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18:26 <@khenn> thanks
18:28 <+crythias> am I back in the game? I could be. I chose WG for our new site ... finally got the people involved.
18:29 <+crythias> it was this or html... I'm like... you're kidding, right?
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19:00 < zylopfa> Greetings
19:01 < dionak> hey zylopfa, did you get your payment gateway finished?
19:03 < zylopfa> I am working on it
19:03 < zylopfa> I found out its not good api wise
19:03 < zylopfa> i have to do it the other way around
19:03 < zylopfa> So i have to make the transaction first
19:03 < zylopfa> and then hand over to the gateway
19:03 < zylopfa> and then get callback from the gw
19:04 < zylopfa> and finish it like that
19:04 < zylopfa> The shipping system is reliant on the user logged in 
19:04 < zylopfa> so it cant handle callback
19:04 < zylopfa> when the callback server is Visitor
19:05 < zylopfa> as they always are when its Callback
19:07 <@rizen> you can log the user in on the callback too
19:07 <@rizen> you have the cart id
19:07 <@rizen> which means you have the session id
19:07 <@rizen> which means you have the user id
19:07 < zylopfa> But rizen
19:07 < zylopfa> isnt session made for the callback?
19:07 <@rizen> no if ands or buts, go directly to bed without dinner
19:08 < zylopfa> i mean a session is for all things initiating connection
19:08 < zylopfa> and the gateway does that
19:08 < zylopfa> but yes i have the cartid
19:08 < zylopfa> how can i make a session for the callback then?
19:09 < zylopfa> I am pretty noob at this but i looked at it for 10 hours straight yesterday
19:11 <@rizen> my $newSession = WebGUI::Session->open($webguiRoot, $session->config->getFilename, $session->request, $session->server, $sessionId);
19:11 < zylopfa> and Rizen how can i get the sessionid?
19:12 <@rizen> $cart->get('sessionId');
19:12 < zylopfa> sick
19:12 < zylopfa> I need to ask oyu
19:12 < zylopfa> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m25379da7
19:12 <@rizen> $session->server->dir_config('WebguiRoot')
19:12 < zylopfa> This is my current none working
19:12 <@rizen> is how you get webgui root
19:13 < zylopfa> You are very kind
19:13 <@rizen> you are the first person on earth to think or say that. =)
19:13 < zylopfa> haah you are kidding
19:13 <@rizen> and you won't think it for long
19:14 < zylopfa> yeah I will
19:14 < zylopfa> you saved my year
19:14 < dionak> oh, i like the bug tracker interface on webgui.org
19:14 < dionak> very nice
19:14 <@rizen> just ask dionak
19:14 <+perlDreamer> khenn++
19:14 <@rizen> or Haarg
19:14 <@rizen> or perlDreamer
19:14 <+perlDreamer> I think you rock, rizen-ator.
19:14 <@rizen> damn it pd, you're not helping my cause. =)
19:15 <+perlDreamer> A running mate always supports his primary candidate
19:15 <@rizen> true
19:15 <@rizen> so are we winning?
19:15 <@rizen> i haven't checked the polls
19:15 <+perlDreamer> Uh, no.  We're not winning
19:15 <+perlDreamer> But we have the moral high ground
19:16 <@rizen> well at least we make this look good
19:16 < dionak> rizen's a little grumpy at times, but rock'n nonetheless
19:16 < zylopfa> perlDreamer, what are you winning?
19:16 <@khenn> I'm waiting for something to be assigned to someone on the new request tracker
19:16 <+perlDreamer> rizen and I are running for office
19:16 < zylopfa> imba
19:16 <@khenn> someone other than me =)
19:17 <+perlDreamer> Actually, rizen's running for office and dragging me along for the ride.
19:17 <@khenn> what office is rizen running for?
19:17 <+perlDreamer> President of the United States of America
19:17 <@khenn> erm yeah
19:19 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui
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19:19 <+MrHairgrease> hi
19:19 <@khenn> hi
19:19 <+MrHairgrease> is it possible with webgui to let it set multi domain cookies?
19:20 <+MrHairgrease> so if a.mydomain.com and b.mydomain.com are running  the same wg
19:20 <+MrHairgrease> if you are logged on to a.mydomain.com you should also automatically be logged on to b.mydomain.com
19:21 <@rizen> yes
19:21 <+MrHairgrease> it has to do with the domain property of the cookie
19:21 <@rizen> you set it in the config file
19:21 <+MrHairgrease> so if i could set that
19:21 <+MrHairgrease> ah
19:21 <+MrHairgrease> thanks
19:21 <@rizen> just set it to .mydomain.com
19:21 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
19:21 <+MrHairgrease> i knew taht part
19:21 <+MrHairgrease> but not weher to set it
19:21 <+MrHairgrease> mucho gracias
19:22 < zylopfa> rizen, 
19:22 < zylopfa> when i make the $card object in the callback
19:23 < zylopfa> my $cart = WebGUI::Shop::Cart->new($session,"$cartid");
19:23 < zylopfa> this is what i do
19:23 < zylopfa> but will the card not be attacked to the old session?
19:23 < zylopfa> attacked even
19:23 < zylopfa> shit attached
19:23 <@rizen> yeah, but that's why you use $newSession
19:23 < zylopfa> true
19:23 < zylopfa> but nresession needs $cart
19:24 <@rizen> you will have to instanciate the cart twice
19:24 < zylopfa> to get the session id
19:24 < zylopfa> ohh
19:24 <@rizen> yup
19:26 < zylopfa> So I also have to make a new PayDriver instance?
19:26 < zylopfa> cause i guess the old in the callback method is attacked to the old $session 
19:29 -!- elnino [n=ninow@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #webgui
19:37 <@rizen> either that or wait until tomorrow
19:39 <@rizen> i'll implement that patch we talked about regarding transactions later today
19:39 <@rizen> and then you can take a look at that and see if it helps you
19:39 <@rizen> if it does you can apply it to your site
19:39 <@rizen> and it will be built in to 7.6
19:41 < zylopfa> Awesome rizen, thanks a lot for your help
19:41 <@rizen> you are contributing this plugin back to the bazaar after all this, right?
19:41 <@rizen> so i'm not just helping you
19:41 <@rizen> i'm helping the community
19:42 <@rizen> maybe we can start a Danish WebGUI Community out of this
19:42 -!- rizen is now known as rizeneatslunch
19:43 < zylopfa> yeah ofcourse rizen
19:43 < zylopfa> And I will make more plugins for other providers: stormpay, paypal (if not made) and others that might be needed
19:57 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, the new syntaxCheck.t test fails unless it's run from the sbin directory.
19:57 <+perlDreamer> None of the scripts check as clean.
19:58 -!- wgGuest09 [n=wgGuest0@adsl-75-24-6-72.dsl.yntwoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #webgui
19:59 <+MrHairgrease> Time for the webgui-world-domination-campaign team to come into action: http://perlbuzz.com/2008/10/whats-the-state-of-perl-web-frameworks.html
20:02 <@tavisto> MrHairgrease, what's up my brotha from a dutch motha?
20:03 <+MrHairgrease> I have become a worker
20:03 <+MrHairgrease> my life is over...
20:03 <+MrHairgrease> but than again
20:04 < wgGuest09> does anyone know who SUBE is? I'd like to talk with him.
20:04 < wgGuest09> or how to message him
20:05 <+MrHairgrease> wgGuest09: never heard of that nick
20:05 <+MrHairgrease> where did you find him?
20:05 < wgGuest09> support
20:05 <+MrHairgrease> on the webgui.org site?
20:05 < wgGuest09> yes
20:05 < wgGuest09> he's posted in support
20:05 <+MrHairgrease> maybe you could send him a message
20:05 < wgGuest09> I didn't know if he was active here or not.
20:05 <+MrHairgrease> not sure how you do that within webgui
20:05 <+MrHairgrease> not on irc
20:06 < wgGuest09> I'm not sure how to message him from WebGUI. His profile is private.
20:06 < wgGuest09> thanks anyway
20:07 <+MrHairgrease> ok
20:08 <+perlDreamer> Sube works with Susanb for that university in California
20:09 <+perlDreamer> no, wait a sec
20:09 <+perlDreamer> that's Some
20:09  * perlDreamer is confused
20:11 < zylopfa> Where can i vote for webui?
20:11 < zylopfa> on that site
20:11 <@tavisto> wgGuest09, Sube is a she and we're working with her to fix her new shop.
20:12 <@tavisto> MrHairGrease, how about this link for Perl Frameworks:   http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?web_frameworks
20:12 < wgGuest09> we had a bunch of $5 transactions go through our site also
20:12 <+MrHairgrease> tavisto: nice
20:13 <@tavisto> Did you post it on the support board? Sube has a bunch of unrelated problems due to improper setup I believe. So, they aren't going to be a good resource at this point
20:13 <@tavisto> yeah Rizen had me add WebGUI to the list awhile back
20:13 <+MrHairgrease> zylopfa: you can't vote
20:13 < wgGuest09> no I didn't post it I wasn't sure it was WebGUI related
20:13 <+MrHairgrease> but you _Can_ tell how great webgui is
20:13 <@tavisto> Are the $5 transactions attached to a specific account?
20:14 <@tavisto> I definitely think you should post it if given that this is the 2nd report of it happening.
20:14 < wgGuest09> I don't think it came through our sites. The IP was Malaysia and the card numbers were different.
20:14 <@tavisto> Could be a security issue here so if you could post it with as much detail as possible, that would be excellent.
20:15 < wgGuest09> okay, will do.  How do I change to my username in this chat? I'm not used to irc
20:16 <+perlDreamer> say "/nick whoIAm"
20:16 -!- wgGuest09 is now known as gama
20:16 <+perlDreamer> Jodie?
20:16 < gama> Joby
20:17 < gama> there is a Jodie, but I'm not here
20:17 < gama> her
20:17 <+perlDreamer> well, when you all say "gama", it makes guessing hard :)
20:17 < zylopfa> Webgui is just sick good, after i read the "WebGUI developers guide" i am beginning to understand what it can do
20:17 < zylopfa> = all
20:17 <@tavisto> Please be sure to include how many transactions have been processed, whether or not they were processed by your merchant account, and anything else you think that might be useful. The more I think about this the more nervous I am. Do you even have any $5 products available for purchase?
20:18  * perlDreamer is still looking for that yayhoo from Donorware who posts security fixes publicly and then says we can ask him for a patch.
20:19 < zylopfa> Good Sirs and Mamm's
20:19 < zylopfa> I have a small question 
20:19 <+perlDreamer> Bring it on, zylopfa
20:19 < zylopfa> my $configFile = $session->config->getFilename;
20:19 <+perlDreamer> yes
20:19 < zylopfa> This is wrong, i found out
20:20 <+perlDreamer> zylopfa, you sure about that?
20:21 <+perlDreamer> That method is inherited from Config::JSON, and is part of the nightly test suite.
20:21 < zylopfa> I am printing the variable in error handler
20:21 < zylopfa> and it shows 0
20:21 < zylopfa> I got it to show the $webguiRoot
20:21 < gama> no $5 items
20:21 < zylopfa> but blank strinkg
20:22 < zylopfa> shit
20:22 < zylopfa> never mind
20:22 < zylopfa> I am blind as a worm
20:22 <+MrHairgrease> who isn't
20:22 < zylopfa> Sorry perlDreamer and others
20:22 <+perlDreamer> Not a problem, zylopfa.
20:22 <+perlDreamer> We all do that :)
20:22 <+MrHairgrease> nowedon't!! =)
20:22 <+perlDreamer> Well, everyone except MrHairgrease
20:23 <+MrHairgrease> Koen makes my mistakes
20:23 <+MrHairgrease> by definition =)
20:23 <+perlDreamer> That _would_ explain a few things
20:23 <+MrHairgrease> it probably would 
20:23 < zylopfa> perlDreamer, I am gonna recreate the old $session in my callback
20:24 < gama> actually we don't have any of our EMS available to the public at this time
20:24 < zylopfa> so i can get access to all the things made in that.like the cart
20:24 <+perlDreamer> I backlogged and saw you and rizeneatslunch talk about that
20:24 -!- MrHairgrease is now known as MrAfkGrease
20:25 < zylopfa> I am moving forward slowly!!
20:26 < zylopfa> User for this session: zylopfa, i got out on the log, so i got the session created now
20:35 <@tavisto> gama that's very strange and I would include that as well
20:36 <@tavisto> I'm beginning to wonder if this is trickery from the Dutch team in an attempt to raise funds for JT's campaign.
20:37 <@tavisto> what is your position on that claim perlDreamer? I need a statement from your campaign please.
20:38 <+perlDreamer> Our team is categorically opposed to the illegal raising of campaign funds.
20:38 <+perlDreamer> In fact, receiving large amounts of funds is counter to good sense, and American law
20:38 <@tavisto> illegal in the US or in Europe?
20:38 <+perlDreamer> Fortunately, this funding is coming from Europe...
20:38 <@tavisto> exactly.
20:39 <+perlDreamer> arg, Haarg
20:49 < zylopfa> perlDreamer, its going forward now
20:49 < zylopfa> Now i have a session object with the user making order + the identical cart object he made
21:06 -!- rizeneatslunch is now known as rizen
21:06 <@rizen> zylopfa: https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/revision?rev=7873
21:08 < zylopfa> haha imba rizen  :D thanks a lot
21:08 <@rizen> imba?
21:08 < zylopfa> means awesome :D
21:08 <@rizen> ok
21:17 < CIA-39> WebGUI: jt * r7872 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Macro/ViewCart.pm): 
21:17 < CIA-39> WebGUI: - Removed cart icon from ViewCart macro.
21:17 < CIA-39> WebGUI: - Updated WebGUI::Shop::PayDriver::processTransaction() to accept a
21:17 < CIA-39> WebGUI:  transaction as a param.
21:17 < CIA-39> WebGUI: jt * r7873 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Shop/PayDriver.pm: 
21:17 < CIA-39> WebGUI: - Updated WebGUI::Shop::PayDriver::processTransaction() to accept a
21:17 < CIA-39> WebGUI:  transaction as a param.
21:27 < zylopfa> This is getting corny now
21:28 < zylopfa> I am making a new PayDriver instance in my callback function
21:28 < zylopfa> my $paydriver = WebGUI::Shop::PayDriver->new($newSession,"$gwid");
21:29 < zylopfa> But now it say i need to override processPayment
21:29 < zylopfa> ohh wait
21:31 < zylopfa> rizen, perlDreamer !!!
21:31 < zylopfa> I DID IT !!
21:32 <@rizen> wahoo!
21:32 <@rizen> it works?
21:32 < zylopfa> its sick
21:32 <@rizen> did you use the new patch i just provided, or did you go the old way?
21:33 < zylopfa> I did the old way!
21:33 < zylopfa> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m77abe61
21:34 < zylopfa> rizen, the above is my final callback script
21:34 < zylopfa> Ok its not finished but i got the mechanics to work, so it will work with me
21:34 < zylopfa> I need to place some checks ofc to see if the payment is legit
21:35 < zylopfa> This is sick good, I have been trying to work it out for days now
21:35 < zylopfa> But the best thing is I learn alot about webgui doing it
21:36 <@rizen> you know, since you are passing the session id, you need not pass the cart id
21:36 <@rizen> webgui can figure out the cart from the session
21:36 < zylopfa> It can?
21:36 <@rizen> indeed
21:36 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@h19-afsc.ded.indra.com] has joined #webgui
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21:36 <@rizen> newBySession()
21:36 <@rizen> that's what it does
21:38 < zylopfa> so i do $cart = $newSession->newBySession(something)
21:38 <@rizen> no
21:38 < zylopfa> naaa $cart =  WebGUI::Shop::Cart->newBySession($newSession)
21:38 <@rizen> yup
21:39 < zylopfa> Webgui is sick
21:39 < zylopfa> and thanks a lot rizen , you saved the year
21:39 <@rizen> the year isn't over yet
21:39 < zylopfa> btw. do you know about the paypal driver?
21:39 <@rizen> no
21:39 < zylopfa> I can easy make it now, i have before made it from normal perl
21:39 <@rizen> what should i know about it?
21:39 < zylopfa> and now i know how to integrate it
21:39 <@rizen> oh, very cool, so are you interested in doing it?
21:40 < zylopfa> yeah
21:40 <@rizen> if you are, i'd love to see it
21:40 < zylopfa> Awesome
21:40 < zylopfa> I am
21:40 <@rizen> if the work is quality enough we'd accept it into the core
21:40 < zylopfa> Sweet, I will do my best and more
21:40 <@rizen> Do you think you can have it done by November 19th?
21:40 < zylopfa> yeah i think thats possible
21:40 <@rizen> that is the feature freeze date for WebGUI 7.6
21:40 < zylopfa> ahhh
21:40 <@rizen> otherwise it will have to wait for WebGUI 7.7
21:41 < zylopfa> I will get it done till then
21:41 <@rizen> sweet
21:41 <@rizen> i know lots of users will appreciate it
21:41 < zylopfa> also with recurring and all that
21:41 <@rizen> cool
21:53 <+perlDreamer> rizen, some guy named JT is making wiki pages
21:53 <@rizen> yeah, he's an asshole
21:53 <+perlDreamer> and you were saying earlier that you're the worst guy in here
21:54 <@rizen> what's he doing trying to help people
21:55 <@rizen> i still submit i'm the worst guy in here
21:56 <@rizen> this JT character will not take the title from me
21:56 <@rizen> he's not nearly bitchy enough
21:56 <+perlDreamer> give him some time, I'm sure he'll show his true colors
22:19 -!- elnino [n=ninow@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:29 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@fl-69-68-148-96.sta.embarqhsd.net] has joined #webgui
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22:30 <@rizen> perlDreamer, did you know that crythias is back in the game?
22:34 <+perlDreamer> I heard that
22:34 <@rizen> that is just SUPER cool
22:38 < topsub> I am writing a test for a custom macro and i am seeing some weird Results, wondering if i could get another eye on it..
22:38 <+perlDreamer> sure
22:39 < topsub> test: http://pastebin.com/m56264fc4  macro: http://pastebin.com/m2c6efcf4
22:39 < topsub> i am expecting results to come back
22:40 < topsub> my ul to have 1 entry in it
22:40 < topsub> but if i run it say 5 times
22:40 < topsub> sometimes i see something
22:40 < topsub> other times i don't
22:40 < topsub> its like when i am trying to create an asset on the fly it doesn't work randomly
22:40 < topsub> or something
22:45 <+perlDreamer> well, about the test
22:45 <+perlDreamer> you shouldn't have to manually include the test library, or the WebGUI library
22:46 <+perlDreamer> but that's a nitpick that I'll come back to
22:46 < topsub> hehe k
22:46 < topsub> Be gentle i am new
22:47 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7874 /WebGUI/t/Session/Url.t: Update test to track code change for escaping requested URLs.
22:47 <+perlDreamer> The only two tests that fail are the last two?
22:47 < topsub> the last one is the one i need help with
22:47 < topsub> it "passes"
22:47 <+perlDreamer> the one that says "unlike $output
22:47 < topsub> yes
22:47 -!- Bernd_ [n=spunky@dslb-088-074-128-047.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #webgui
22:47 <+perlDreamer> Test looks fine to me.
22:47 < topsub> when iam printing the output statement
22:48 <+perlDreamer> ah
22:48 < topsub> there are times when it comes back <ul id="webinarList"></ul>
22:48 <+perlDreamer> for tests, in general you want to use diag, not print
22:48 < topsub> but i am expecting <ul id="webinarList"><li>Test Webinar  - <a href="/testwebinar?func=edit;">Edit Webinar</a><br/><a href="/testwebinar?func=editVariant&vid=3W6aCIHk3iH6EvNOivgOsQ">Edit Event - N/a</a></li></ul>
22:48 < topsub> i ran this test back to back 5 times
22:48 < Bernd_> Hey!
22:48 < topsub> 4 of them had an empty ul
22:48 < Bernd_> Who of you guys has been working on the new request tracker?
22:48 < topsub> 1 of them had what i just posted with a populated UL
22:49 < Bernd_> rizen, was that you?
22:50 < Bernd_> Great work!
22:50 < Bernd_> Except for one thing...
22:51 <+perlDreamer> topsub, I would suggest adding a test for _getWebinars to make sure _it_ is doing the right thing.
22:51 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@fl-69-68-148-96.sta.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
22:51 < Bernd_> It seems that e-mails do not contain the message text when a new request is created.
22:51 <+perlDreamer> and I think your group by clause has to be a valid field
22:51 <+perlDreamer> liek w.assetId or ad.assetId
22:51 <@rizen> Bernd_ it was khenn and now Haarg
22:51 < Bernd_> Alright, thanks!
22:51 < Bernd_> Haarg, are you online?
22:52 <@rizen> regardless though
22:52 <@rizen> this is not an RFE list
22:52 <@rizen> if you want something, put it in the RFE list
22:52 < Bernd_> Ok, I apologize.
22:52 <@Haarg> yeah, i saw that issue Bernd_
22:52 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, does the escaped URL fix need to be backported to 7.5?
22:52 < Bernd_> I thought that it simply might have been forgotten.
22:52 < topsub> pd, i know on line 65 i put a print statement trying to print all the assetId's and titles of the webinars. and sometimes it would have both my test assets i added or just one.
22:53 < Bernd_> Shall I submit an RFE on this?
22:53 < topsub> pd, i will write a test for that getWebinars and see thanks
22:53 < Bernd_> Or did you plan to fix this anyway?
22:53 <@Haarg> perlDreamer, yes
22:53 <@Haarg> just a sec though
22:53 <+perlDreamer> I'm backporting test fixes, so if you want, I can do it too
22:53 <@khenn> I noticed that too
22:53 <+perlDreamer> just let me know when it is okay
22:54 <@khenn> Haarg - it's probably being filtered out of the template
22:59 < topsub> pd, do i need to create a version tag? Did you see my little bit of code were i was creating one. But i am kinda confused ifi  need to or not.
23:00 <+perlDreamer> strictly speaking, if you're using the same session and user, you do not
23:00 < topsub> Seems by purging what i create under that version tag it removes it.
23:00 <+perlDreamer> but it makes clean-up quick and easy if you have lots of things to clean up
23:00 <+perlDreamer> yes, when you nuke a version tag is does the same as $asset->purge
23:00 < topsub> right now by running this test i am running it as a visitor right?
23:00 <+perlDreamer> yes
23:01 < topsub> but i do alot of editing and altering assets and it creates a lot of entries its best to create a version tag so its eaiser to clean up vs trying to purge 15 assets
23:01 <+perlDreamer> ++laziness
23:01 < topsub> lol k
23:01 <+perlDreamer> altering assets is fine, you don't need a version tag for calling $asset->update
23:02 <+perlDreamer> just creation
23:02 < topsub> i remember i wrote an import script for PDFs and didn't use a version tag the first time. and had like 50 entries inside a version tag. 
23:02 < topsub> that left open and i didn't know until i ran it about 15 times
23:02 <+perlDreamer> oy
23:02 < topsub> i learned the hard way that day
23:02 < topsub> i quickly put that in a version tag
23:03 < topsub> because if one thing messed up i tried to remove everything before it
23:03 <+perlDreamer> utility scripts should probably always use version tags
23:03 < topsub> putting that in a version tag made it easy as pie
23:03 <+perlDreamer> but tests don't have to
23:03 < topsub> Oh i learned that.. lol
23:06 -!- Bernd_ [n=spunky@dslb-088-074-128-047.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
23:22 < zylopfa> I need someone to tell me how to make a  cartid "q_ajRrw2jn57NjSigmfKBQ" into only alfanumeric a-zA-Z0-9
23:22 < zylopfa> and still keeping it unique
23:22 <+perlDreamer> zylopfa, that's not possible
23:22 < zylopfa> damn
23:22 <+perlDreamer> how about encoding the cartid to make it URL safe?
23:23 < zylopfa> The lame gateway will not accept other than a-zA-Z0-9 in the field for the order number
23:23 < zylopfa> perlDreamer, good idea, will it still keep its uniqueness?
23:23 < zylopfa> well i guess it will
23:23 <+perlDreamer> URL encoding will use things like %2F
23:23 < zylopfa> that wont work
23:23 <+perlDreamer> yeah
23:23 < zylopfa> Its lame the gateway check for nummeric
23:24 < zylopfa> i mean it has only alfanumeric allowed in that field
23:24 < zylopfa> perlDreamer, is there a quick function for it in webgui?
23:24 <+perlDreamer> on phone, bb soon
23:26 <@rizen> zylopfa
23:26 <@rizen> you can turn it into a hex
23:26 <@rizen> it will be longer
23:26 <@rizen> but it will be unique and alphanumeric only
23:26 < zylopfa> good idea rizen also
23:26 < zylopfa> thats what i need
23:26 < zylopfa> is that pack i use?
23:29 <@rizen> $session->id->toHex($guid)
23:29 <@rizen> or better yet
23:29 <@rizen> just use MIME::Base64
23:30 <@rizen> nevermind
23:30 <@rizen> that won't work either
23:31 -!- topsub [n=josh@97.66.185.250] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:32 < zylopfa> $cartid =~ s/(.|\n)/sprintf("%02lx", ord $1)/eg;
23:33 < zylopfa> But i think the toHex is nicer
23:33 < zylopfa> why not use it when its there
23:33 <@rizen> cuz there's no way to convert it back
23:33 <@rizen> at least not built in 
23:34 < zylopfa> yeah but the $session->id->toHex($guid)
23:41 <@Haarg> $guid = MIME::Base64::encode_base64(pack "H*", $hex); $guid =~ tr{+/}{_-}; $guid =~ s/=+$//;
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23:42 < zylopfa> Insane, thanks a lot
23:42 < zylopfa> I will use the toHex($guid) though
23:42 < zylopfa> its not important the number
23:43 < zylopfa> its just required by the gateway
23:43 < zylopfa> Internal in webgui it takes care of transaction numbers
23:43 <@Haarg> you don't need to translate it back?
23:43 <@Haarg> toHex is what i would recommend, that thing i pasted is to translate from hex
23:44 <@Haarg> we don't currently have a function for that
23:44 < zylopfa> i can just do:   $cartidHEXed == toHex('idbackfromgw')
23:44 < zylopfa> to check if i get correct number back from the gw
23:45 < zylopfa> sorry that is:   toHex($cartid) == $hexedidbackfromgw
23:45 <@Haarg> well, if you are sending it to them in hex, you wouldn't want to hex it again when it came back from them
23:45 <@Haarg> yeah
23:45 <@Haarg> well, eq not ==
23:45 < zylopfa> yeah eq
23:45 <@Haarg> that depends on you already having the cart id though
23:46 < zylopfa> I have the cartid
23:46 < zylopfa> but the "OrderNumber" field wont take anything but alphanumeric not including - _
23:47 < zylopfa> so i use the "reference" field to pass the session id to gw
23:47 < zylopfa> it can have all sorts 
23:48 <@Haarg> is this for recurring transactions?
23:50 < zylopfa> yeah
23:50 <@Haarg> i don't think you can use the session then
23:50 <@Haarg> sessions expire
23:50 <@Haarg> among other things
23:50 < zylopfa> Haarg, there is a problem, the OrderNR must only be 20 chars
23:50 < zylopfa> No this is not for recurrring
23:50 < zylopfa> the thing i do now but it will be made recurring
23:51 < zylopfa> but thats in another function
23:51 <@Haarg> in what context is the result coming back from the gateway then?
23:51 < zylopfa> Damn i just need how i get a number that wont be the same in any post, and will be 20 chars max
23:52 <@Haarg> well, you can just make one up then
23:52 <@Haarg> take a guid, filter out + and /
23:53 < zylopfa> hmm yeah Haarg but wont it be possible to get the same one 2 times?
23:53 < zylopfa> if i filter some _-+ out and place it with something else
23:53 <+perlDreamer> that's a 1-way transformation
23:53 <+perlDreamer> no way to reverse map it
23:53 <+perlDreamer> unless...
23:54 <+perlDreamer> unless you build a translation table
23:54 <+perlDreamer> in the db
23:54 < zylopfa> yeah
23:54 <+perlDreamer> so that you can look them up on return
23:54 <@Haarg> if you need to reverse it you would need a lookup table yeah
23:54 <@Haarg> guids are unique enough that losing a little precision will be ok
23:54 < zylopfa> The Cartid is good to use, cause in recurring i can look up the transaction id
23:54 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, okay to commit backported url encoding fixes and tests?
23:54 <@Haarg> yeah
23:55 < zylopfa> i cant give the gateway the transaction id cause i dont have it before the thing is over
23:55 <+perlDreamer> zylopfa, all IDs in WebGUI are 22 character
23:55 < zylopfa> perlDreamer, yeah but the gateway wont take chars like -,_ in the ordernr
23:56 < zylopfa> Well its actually no matter what the number is as it will be put with the transaction when its done
23:56 < zylopfa> just a 1 to 10000000 will be ok 
23:57 < zylopfa> but i need to be sure its a unique number
23:57 < zylopfa> or string
23:57 <+perlDreamer> that's why I think you should build a translation table
23:57 <+perlDreamer> go from something that will not be unique to use for talking to the remote server
23:58 <+perlDreamer> and then use it to look up the real thing locally
23:58 <+perlDreamer> and double check that no one tries to spoof you
23:58 <@Haarg> for now, you can just use a guid with /+ removed and cut to 20 characters
23:58 <@Haarg> when you want recurring, you'll probably need a translation table like perlDreamer is saying
23:58 < zylopfa> Haarg, its no problem with recurring
23:58 < zylopfa> cause this happens
23:59 < zylopfa> GW-send OrderNumber -> callbackfunction
23:59 < zylopfa> and i look up ordernumber in the transaction table 
--- Day changed Wed Oct 08 2008
00:00 < zylopfa> transactionCode is the field i use for it
00:00 < zylopfa> in the transaction table
00:01 < zylopfa> The GUID's are A-Za-z0-9 and -_ ?
00:01 <@Haarg> yes
00:02 <@Haarg> case sensitive
00:02 < zylopfa> so its 2 characters i need to substitute with something else
00:02 <@Haarg> or just cut out
00:02 <+perlDreamer> Yes, and you have to clip it to 20 characters
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00:04 < zylopfa> Curse this gateway
00:07 < zylopfa> perlDreamer, i can use the orderNumber in transaction and increment the biggest int in it with 1 to get a new
00:07 < zylopfa> but if there are 100000 ordering at the same time it wont work
00:07 < zylopfa> as they might get the same ordernr
00:15 < zylopfa> I can also use the perl time() function but thats only 1 pr second
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00:15 < eddy> Hello!
00:15 < zylopfa> Hello eddy 
00:15 < eddy> :)
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00:17 <+perlDreamer> zylopfa, and order number is per user, so it can clash
00:17 <+perlDreamer> uh oh
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00:18 < eddy> help
00:18 < eddy> sorry
00:18 <+perlDreamer> Ask away, eddy
00:19 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7875 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/t/Session/Url.t: Backporting URL encoding XSS fix and updated tests.
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00:40 <+perlDreamer> I would like to assign myself a Shop bug.
00:49 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7876 /WebGUI/ (lib/WebGUI/Session/Http.pm t/Session/Http.t): Update test to work with XSS fix.
00:49 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7877 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (lib/WebGUI/Session/Http.pm t/Session/Http.t): backport Session/Http.t test fixes
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01:22 <+perlDreamer> tavisto, what is a nice car?
01:31 <@tavisto> uh...
01:32 <@tavisto> nice car for what?
01:32 <+perlDreamer> impressing people and driving fast
01:33 <@tavisto> I would go with the 2009 Turbocharged Range Rover or a Cadillac XLR-V
01:33 <+perlDreamer> How much does it cost?
01:34 <+perlDreamer> and what does it weigh?
01:34 <@tavisto> Turbo range is about 130k and XLR-V is probably 90k
01:34 <@tavisto> range is 6500 curb weight, xlr prob 3k
01:35 <@tavisto> the other vehicle that is nice is the Cadillac Escalade Hybrid.. Ultimate in luxury and green tech for big suvs
01:43 <+perlDreamer> Is something up with webgui.org?  It seems dog slow
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01:58 <+perlDreamer> Would a kind PB person please close a bug for me?
01:58 <+perlDreamer> http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/8766
02:00 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7878 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 
02:00 < CIA-39> WebGUI: Fix a bug with shipping costs as a percentage of weight. Build
02:00 < CIA-39> WebGUI: a test to test the fix.
02:00 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7879 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (3 files in 3 dirs): backport fix for percent of shipping weight fix with test
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02:36 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7880 /WebGUI/t/Asset/AssetExportHtml.t: begin guardbanding the test to survive being run by root
02:36 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7881 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset.pm: fix an i18n typo. Sorry Bart
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05:03 < elnino> preaction, or perldreamer, which one of you was I talking to about encoding and utf-8?
05:03 <@preaction> probably me
05:04 < elnino> I have another question =)
05:04 < elnino> I'm in the middle of fixing some translated pages.
05:04 < elnino> and they are turning up well now, however, the title and menutitle are
05:04 < elnino> displaying as jibberish in the asset manager.
05:05 < elnino> that totally confuses me since the pages show up fine. 
05:05 < elnino> is it because the asset manager meta content type isn't utf-8?
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05:06 < elnino> opps. I just looked, the content type is utf-9. maybe because the lang isn't defined?
05:06 < elnino> or defined as english?
05:07 <@preaction> language doesn't enter into it, just character encoding
05:07 < elnino> basically in asset manager, I'm viewing 20 different languages in one page. so maybe that isn't possible.
05:07 < elnino> (20 different menu titles in 20 different languages)
05:08 < elnino> hmm. I just realized tha tthe messed up languages are RTL as opposed to LTR,
05:09 < elnino> but before the upgrade, it looked like they were displaying right.
05:09 <@preaction> it's possible. are you using the right RTL and LTR markers?
05:09 < elnino> but now the characters aren't even close to what they are on the html page.
05:09 <@preaction> that might be a different issue though
05:10 < elnino> I took care of the "RTL" in the pagelayout template. I didn't specify RTL in the menu title or title fields.
05:12 <@preaction> there are special zero-width RTL and LTR markers. I suspect they would have to be put in the appropriate places in the title / menutitle
05:12 <@preaction> that may work, i don't know
05:13 < elnino> hmm. interesting. ok. I'm just copying from notepad.
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06:18 <+perlDreamer> any luck with the macro, topsub?
06:18 < topsub> Ya, it seems to work now once i fixed that SQL
06:18 <+perlDreamer> sweet
06:18 < topsub> i might end up writing that test for the getWebinars 
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06:18 <+perlDreamer> that's a good idea
06:19 <+perlDreamer> I got bit by my own rule today
06:19 < topsub> hehe how so?
06:19 <+perlDreamer> Didn't write a test for the FlatRate pay driver
06:19 <+perlDreamer> and it had a bug
06:19 <+perlDreamer> in the untested part
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07:22 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7882 /WebGUI/t/Asset/AssetExportHtml.t: 
07:22 < CIA-39> WebGUI: More guardbanding tests for root.
07:22 < CIA-39> WebGUI: No more dumping files into /
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07:26 < patspam> ooooh
07:26 < patspam> !
07:26  * patspam just discovered inputEx
07:26 <+perlDreamer> ??
07:26 < patspam> a form element library for YUI
07:26 < patspam> for situations where you don't want to build form elements from html markup
07:27 < patspam> e.g. where you don't need graceful degredation
07:27 < patspam> http://javascript.neyric.com/inputex/
07:27 <+perlDreamer> I see.  Like the Calendar
07:27 < patspam> yeah. I've been missing that since i switched from ExtJS to YUI for wg dev
07:28 < patspam> YUI 3.x looks pretty sweet too, looking forward to the anticipated beta release at the end of the year
07:28 < patspam> much less verbose for a start ;)
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12:00 < wgGuest53> Hi, for a new WRE-server, whats the best bet? Centos 4 or 5? (Besides debian and ubuntu)
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17:14 <+MrHairgrease> ah
17:14 <+MrHairgrease> rizen
17:14 <@rizen> howdy
17:14 <+MrHairgrease> if asset duplication does not duplicat its keywords
17:14 <+MrHairgrease> is that a bug or a feature
17:14 <+MrHairgrease> i hope it's a bug
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17:25 <@rizen> yeah it should
17:26 <+MrHairgrease> ok
17:26 <+MrHairgrease> good
17:26 <@rizen> keywords are also not copied by packages and they should be
17:26 <+MrHairgrease> i have a patch already
17:26 <@rizen> feel free to apply
17:26 <@rizen> there's a new 7.5 release out tomorrow
17:26 <+MrHairgrease> hmm
17:26 <+MrHairgrease> the problem is that I'm in the middle of a project running on an older svn rev
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> the patch is easy though
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> and tested
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> is it possible that i post it in a bug report
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> and someone with a current dev environment apply it for me, if possible?
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17:39 <+MrHairgrease> Here it is: http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/8776
17:40 <+MrHairgrease> if someone could find the time to apply it I would really appreciate it
17:46 <@rizen> i'll make sure Haarg does it as soon as he gets in
17:47 <+MrHairgrease> super!
17:47 <+MrHairgrease> thanks a bunch
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18:17 < carogray> someone who wants to look at our database tables, whom we and plainblack have given permission wants to login. He has a  username and password, where/how does he login?  It is our domain name? Is it the server name that PlainBlack has assigned our server? 
18:18 <+crythias> a sql report can look at them...
18:18 <+crythias> usually without password b/c it uses internal mysql passwd
18:19 <+crythias> the dbpasswd and db usernamte is in webgui/etc/yoursite.conf
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18:21 < carogray> he has a user name and password - the question is - where does he go?
18:21 <+crythias> first, what does he need to do?
18:21 < carogray> I thought it was the plainblack server that we enter the name of when we put in login requests
18:22 <+crythias> you should ask pb
18:23 < carogray> PlainBlack already knows about this. He wants to login and look at the tables and databases...I am not sure what he wants to do, but they have said they have opened the ports for his IP address and given him both SSH and SSL access
18:23 < carogray> Unfortunately, I'm getting "can't connect" errors when I try to access that server by SSH and MySQL:  -bash-3.00$ ssh server36.plainblack.net ssh: connect to host server36.plainblack.net port 22: Connection timed out -bash-3.00$ mysql -h server36.plainblack.net -u mlri -p Enter password: ERROR 2003 (HY000): Can't connect to MySQL server on 'server36.plainblack.net' (110)
18:23 <+crythias> np.
18:23 < carogray> sorry not SSL access - my dodo mistake
18:24 <+crythias> ssh?
18:24 <+crythias> mysql?
18:24 <+crythias> if he merely wants to look at tables, use a sql report
18:24 <+crythias> in WebGUI
18:25 <+crythias> if he's going to edit them directly...
18:27 < carogray> yeah - both. Haarg said he opened both" I can open either the ssh port, the mysql port, or both" .
18:27 < carogray> in the end he said he opened both
18:28 < carogray> he said he created a system user and an mysql user. 
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19:27 < topsub> When i am adding an Item from transaction object from $transaction->addItem({}) can i set a classname threw the api? Or does it just create it in the transactionItem table?
19:27 < ckotil> ohhh, i like the new message boards on plainblack.com
19:30 <+perlDreamer> topsub, transactionItem takes a cartItem which contains an Asset::Sku
19:32 <+perlDreamer> I think cartItem contains an assetId and a set of options (internally serialized to JSON).
19:32 <+perlDreamer> but that's worth a double check
19:36 < topsub> ya... trying to think of best way to fake a purchase just to test if i can pull information from transaction and transactionItems table.
19:36 <+perlDreamer> I think I'd set up a cart, then use Cash to check-out
19:37 < topsub> ya. seems i am going to have to do the process of checking out and buying a product so i can create an asset with my custom product
19:38 <+perlDreamer> Note, if you make that test generic enough, it would be nice to have it in the core.
19:38 <+perlDreamer> We don't have anything like that in there yet.
19:38 < topsub> using WebGUI::Shop::Transaction i can create a transaction and an transactionTiem but i can't assign it a custom className to say its my custom asset
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19:47 <+MrHairgrease> question about the new bugtracker: is it intended behaviour that the emails it sends don't contain the actual message?
19:48 <+MrHairgrease> it shows only severity etc
19:48 <+perlDreamer> There's already a bug filed for that, MrHairgrease
19:48 <+MrHairgrease> oh
19:48 <+MrHairgrease> good
19:48 <+MrHairgrease> thanks d
19:48 <+MrHairgrease> pd*
19:48 <+perlDreamer> As usual, your reverse precognition is working at 100%
19:49 <+MrHairgrease> hehe it came in just 30 secs ago =)
19:49 <+MrHairgrease> at least i guess
19:49 <+MrHairgrease> oh
19:49 <+MrHairgrease> no that's another =)
19:50 <+perlDreamer> I would have sworn I saw a bug like that yesterday. Blank emails and everything.
19:51 <+MrHairgrease> oh that could be
19:51 <+perlDreamer> Well, in any case, it's worth filing now :)
19:51 <+MrHairgrease> looking for that now
19:51 <+MrHairgrease> but i was refering to a bug named 'Bug Tracker' filed by you
19:52 <+MrHairgrease> since I didn't say in the email what it was abvout
19:52 <+MrHairgrease> I though I'd just add 1 and 1
19:52 <+perlDreamer> ah, that bug is about bad flow
19:52 <+MrHairgrease> but that's not alwats 2 i guess
19:52 <+perlDreamer> you do a search
19:52 <+perlDreamer> click on a ticket
19:52 <+perlDreamer> say "go back to tickets"
19:52 <+perlDreamer> and it takes  you back to the search screen, and not the ticket list
19:53 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, AssetExportHtml.t is now root/root clean
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20:02 <+perlDreamer> and I've backported it to both branches
20:02 <+perlDreamer> If you'd give it a double check to make sure I didn't miss any root access, I'd appreciate it.
20:14 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7883 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): final fixes for AssetExportHtml test
20:14 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7884 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (lib/WebGUI/AssetExportHtml.pm t/Asset/AssetExportHtml.t): backport final AssetExportHtml test fixes
20:14 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7885 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm: fix bad whitespace in Thingy POD
20:14 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7886 /WebGUI/t/Macro/ViewCart.t: update Macro/ViewCart test to track macro changes
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21:07 <@perlmonkey2> can anyone think of a wobject the returns files to IE6/7?
21:07 <@perlmonkey2> The current Survey doesn't.
21:14 <@perlmonkey2> That was a dumb question wasn't it.
21:27 < topsub> hey perlDreamer you here?
21:35 <@perlmonkey2> Why would IE6 throw an error if you set the mime to 'application/octet-strem' and then return a tab-delimted text blob?  
21:45 <@Haarg> what kind of error?
21:47 < ckotil> ID 10 T error , i think
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22:06 < lisette> Hi
22:07 < lisette> There is a diagram component Diagram of WebGUI?
22:15 <@bopbop> lisette: can you try to clarify?
22:16 < lisette> I want a diagram specified of components of webgui like a UML Diagram
22:17 <+perlDreamer> perlDreamer is here
22:17 <+perlDreamer> speak to me, topsub
22:18 < lisette> perlDreamer hi
22:18 <+perlDreamer> hi lisette!
22:18 < lisette> I want a diagram specified of components of webgui like a UML Diagram
22:18 < lisette> There is a diagram component Diagram of WebGUI?
22:19 <+perlDreamer> No
22:24 <+perlDreamer> No UML, no schema documentation
22:24 <+perlDreamer> no component diagrams
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22:52 < Lisett1> how to do to add a variant of a product by code?
22:53 <+perlDreamer> Lisett1, you can see an example of that in /data/WebGUI/t/Asset/Sku/Product.t
22:54 < Lisett1> thanks.
23:01 < Lisett1> then, i create a product like an asset, and then call the method www_editVariantSave?
23:02 <+perlDreamer> No
23:04 <+perlDreamer> Lisett1, I owe you an apology.
23:04 <+perlDreamer> There is no example code in /data/WebGUI/t/Asset/Sku/Product.t
23:05 < Lisett1> mmmm
23:05 < Lisett1> ok
23:05 < Lisett1> where i found?
23:06 <+perlDreamer> It is in /data/WebGUI/t/Shop/ShipDriver/FlatRate.t, between lines 252-287
23:06 <+perlDreamer> that sets up a product with 3 variants
23:07 < Lisett1> ok, thanks
23:07 < Lisett1> i see
23:07 <+perlDreamer> sorry about that
23:08 < Lisett1> tranquilo
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23:09 < Lisett1> the file FlatRate only have 115 lines
23:10 <+perlDreamer> which version of WebGUI are you using?
23:11 <+perlDreamer> You can also find the example here: https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/checkout/WebGUI/t/Shop/ShipDriver/FlatRate.t?rev=7878
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23:34 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7887 /WebGUI/t/Shop/Tax.t: better cleanup of products for Shop/Tax test
23:34 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7888 /WebGUI/t/Shop/ShipDriver/FlatRate.t: fix clean-up of Products in FlatRate test
23:34 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7889 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/t/Shop/ (Tax.t ShipDriver/FlatRate.t): backport test clean-ups for Products
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23:46 < Lisett1> the file FlatRate only have 115 lines
23:46 < Lisett1> sorry my connectios has down
23:47 <+perlDreamer> You can also see the code here: https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/checkout/WebGUI/t/Shop/ShipDriver/FlatRate.t?rev=7878
23:50 < Lisett1> thanks
23:54 <+perlDreamer> Is this more rockemite code?
23:55 <+crythias> rebooting pidgin.
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--- Day changed Thu Oct 09 2008
00:07 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7890 /translations/Spanish/Spanish/Asset.pm: Update from translation server
00:07 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7891 /translations/Spanish/Spanish/ (4 files): Update from translation server
00:09 < Lisett1> not
00:09 -!- SquOnk [n=emhn@bolivar.unesr.edu.ve] has joined #webgui
00:09 < Lisett1> is for utility that add videos in a website channel
00:09 < SquOnk> Hi everyone
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00:09 < Lisett1> like a product and the people buy per view
00:10 < SquOnk> Updated 7.5.25 Debian packages at the usual place.
00:10 <+perlDreamer> cool (to both of you)
00:10 < SquOnk> For the next release, there will be Debconf support, i.e. after aptitude install webgui it will ask you for some info and then generate a proper webgui.conf and apache.config files
00:10 < SquOnk> Quick question:
00:11 <+perlDreamer> shoot
00:11 < SquOnk> I have a webgui server that's behind a firewall preventing direct web access: it has to go through a proxy.
00:11 < SquOnk> webgui will be used internally, but they want to have RSS feeds and HTTP Proxy assets...
00:11 < SquOnk> ...where can I set webgui's proxy?
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00:12 <+perlDreamer> SquOnk, I don't remember off the top of my head, but if you search the forum for that, I think you'll find it.
00:12 < SquOnk> perlDreamer: On my way...
00:12 < SquOnk> Another thing is I haven't been able to use LDAP over SSL.
00:13 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI doesn't support that currently
00:13 < SquOnk> If I use ldaps://my.ldap:636/ it barfs miserably!
00:13 < SquOnk> Figures...
00:13 <+perlDreamer> patches welcome :)
00:13 < SquOnk> ...will do.
00:13 < SquOnk> Net::LDAP does that magic itself, so we should only be asking for the URI.
00:13 <+perlDreamer> The next WebGUI RFE day is coming up, so it's a good opportunity to get it into 7.6 quickly
00:14 < SquOnk> perlDreamer: I'm more interested in the Module::Build thing. But I'm doing that myself :-)
00:14 < SquOnk> perl Build.pl
00:14 <+perlDreamer> Module::Build?
00:14 < SquOnk> ./Build
00:14 < SquOnk> ./Build install
00:14 <+perlDreamer> oh, a setup for installing WebGUI
00:14 < SquOnk> perlDreamer: Yep.
00:15 <+perlDreamer> Any Lenny news?
00:15 < SquOnk> perlDreamer: And it has nice things like installing in a different root, or installing in a way such as to ease packaging (as in Debian :-)
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00:15 <+perlDreamer> Did you see my Fedora rpm perl module package summary on the dev list, SquOnk?
00:15 < SquOnk> perlDreamer: And it can install along the Perl distribution, so finding the WebGUI root will not be an issue anymore. WebGUI modules will become part of the installed Perl modules.
00:16 < SquOnk> perlDreamer: Nope
00:16 <+perlDreamer> There are two outdated modules, and 10 missing ones.
00:16 < SquOnk> perlDreamer: I'm bogged down with my classes. I've got a full class this quarter.
00:16 < SquOnk> 40 students plus managing the labs.
00:16 <+perlDreamer> wow
00:17 < SquOnk> They had their first exam yesterday. Not a pretty picture, I must say.
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00:17 < SquOnk> Got some incredibly amazing questions.
00:17 < SquOnk> "The question says 'even length word longer than two characters', why ISN'T the null word in the language then?"
00:18 < SquOnk> I looked in disbelief and asked "What's the length of the null word?"
00:18 < SquOnk> The student replied "Zero. But zero IS an even number too?!"
00:18 < SquOnk> I almost broke a leg trying not to laugh.
00:19 < SquOnk> I've got the Spanish translation to 50% today...
00:19 <+perlDreamer> I saw that
00:19 <+crythias> a doubleword is even length longer than a word :)
00:20 <+perlDreamer> I think you and Bernd and Klaus should race to see who gets to 100% first and be the second official fully translated language for wG.
00:20 < SquOnk> perlDreamer: I'll get it to 101% and beat the dutch!
00:20 <+perlDreamer> Maybe you could offer extra credit to your students...
00:20 < SquOnk> perlDreamer: They're lazy bastards. "Bad" lazy, if you know what I mean...
00:21 <+crythias> I espeakeh espanish in the eschool.
00:21 <+perlDreamer> Gotcha.  Lazy as in bastards, not lazy as in perl.
00:21 < SquOnk> Yeah
00:21 < SquOnk> brb
00:22 <+perlDreamer> crythias, I don't know that you've met SquOnk yet.  SquOnk is this year's WebGUI contributor of the year.
00:22 <+perlDreamer> He's trying to get WebGUI into Debian Lenny
00:22 <+crythias> ooh. Mucho Gusto!
00:22 <+perlDreamer> and has a full set of apt's for doing it now
00:22 <+crythias> apartments? appointments? 
00:23 <+perlDreamer> Debian packages
00:23 <+crythias> oh. yeah. *blush*
00:23  * perlDreamer is hampered when speaking Debian-ese due to my Fedora-ness.
00:24 <+crythias> don't mind me. I have flashes of brilliance that stunt my vision of the obvious.
00:25 <+crythias> Got to hand it to these people...
00:25 <+crythias> http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory?id=5983765
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00:52 < knowmad> hey folks, has anyone here compiled mod_php against the WRE?
00:52  * knowmad ducks
00:55 < SquOnk> Why would anyone want to do that?
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00:56 <+cap10morgan_> hmm, Devel::NYTProf reports that WebGUI spends 9 seconds in the DateTime::TimeZone::new sub
00:56 <+cap10morgan_> but i can't even find a place that gets called
00:56 <+cap10morgan_> as far as I can tell, WebGUI just calls all_names() from that module
01:03 <+perlDreamer> cap10morgan_, maybe DateTime does it internally
01:03 <+perlDreamer> and I can believe 9 seconds
01:03 <+perlDreamer> since it's loading some huge text file of data
01:03 <+cap10morgan_> i don't see where it is doing that internally, but yeah i guess it still could be
01:03 <+cap10morgan_> and this is everytime i hit my site, 9 seconds for a time zone check
01:04 <+cap10morgan_> that's wayyyyyy too slow
01:04 <+perlDreamer> that I don't believe
01:04 <+perlDreamer> it doesn't take 9 seconds to load a page on wG
01:04 <+cap10morgan_> it often takes longer than that for me
01:04 <+cap10morgan_> what i'm trying to troubleshoot
01:05 <+perlDreamer> Could it be custom code?
01:05 <+perlDreamer> Are you running vanilla WebGUI?
01:06 < knowmad> SquOnk: cause webgui doesn't do digital downloads
01:07 <+perlDreamer> Doesn't do digital downloads?
01:07 < SquOnk> knowmad: Pray tell what a "digital download" is? I've always believed all my downloads were digital after all...
01:07 < knowmad> buy a product that is delivered digitally then provide limited time, protected access
01:07 <+perlDreamer> knowmad, you're the second person who's asked for that
01:08 <+perlDreamer> elnino was the first
01:08 < knowmad> it's going to become more common
01:08 <+perlDreamer> why don't we build one, then?
01:08 < knowmad> there was discussion in the forums which led me to the DLGuard.com product which requires php
01:08 < knowmad> looks easy enough and has plenty of features including integration with loads of payment gateways
01:09 < knowmad> Hey SquOnk, this is the first time we've "met". Congrats on your Contributor of the Year. Hope you can come up and join us at the WUC next year.
01:09 < SquOnk> knowmad: Thanks. Those are my intentions, along with trying for a second CoTY in a row... :-)
01:09 < knowmad> perlDreamer: love the idea of adding it to wG shop but this is a business decision right now and buy is tons cheaper than build
01:10 <+perlDreamer> and quicker
01:10 < knowmad> Hey, you gave away our goals too :)
01:10 < knowmad> i wanna be like perlDreamer!
01:11 < knowmad> i'll update the wiki if i can get this to work
01:12 < knowmad> it looks like all the apache headers are shipped in wre/prereqs/include so this just might work once i get all my requisite libs like gd, curl, etc
01:12 < SquOnk> I just gave a presentation on WebGUI's benefits for a local university that happens to be my customer for other IT things...
01:13 < SquOnk> ...and I guess we'll have like 20 spanish translators and translation-debuggers very soon.
01:13  * SquOnk used The Force
01:13 < SquOnk> ...it was unfair to the PHP crowd here
01:14 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7892 /translations/Spanish/Spanish/ (Macro_LoginToggle.pm Macro_L_loginBox.pm): Update from translation server
01:14 < knowmad> That's awesome. We're about to rollout 18 sites that are powered by 2 webgui instances for a client that does HR training across the US.
01:14 <+perlDreamer> Who were you competing against?
01:15 < SquOnk> perlDreamer: In-house two-time undisputed failures written in PHP and Joomla.
01:16 < knowmad> Can you submit this to Tavis for a case study?
01:16 < knowmad> I bet he'd be drooling for a story like that ;)
01:18 < SquOnk> Once we get this show on the road, we will...
01:18 < knowmad> Great. Thanks for the chat ya'll. It's quiting time.
01:18 < SquOnk> ...this is a public university that bases its courses in "virtual classrooms" (whatever that may mean :-)
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01:19 < SquOnk> The use things like Moodle which work fine, but have had _serious_ difficulties setting up a proper intra/extra/inter/ultra/propernet :-)
01:19 < SquOnk> ...and they always wanted the sort of functionality that WebGUI has, but were so PHP-biased that never considered it.
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01:20 <+perlDreamer> Sounds like they need a Debian-based, perl friendly consultant to help them over their biases.
01:20 < SquOnk> The success of RequestTracker and a couple of Perl-based solutions by yours truly led them to believe that "this guy might know a bit or two, let's ask him"
01:21 < SquOnk> perlDreamer: They have always been Debian-based, in fact they run one of the official venezuelan mirrors
01:21 <+perlDreamer> Nice
01:30 < SquOnk> Got to go
01:30 < SquOnk> See you guys tomorrow
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02:46 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7893 /WebGUI/t/Shop/ShipDriver/FlatRate.t: add another FlatRate calculate test
02:46 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7894 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/t/Shop/ShipDriver/FlatRate.t: backport new FlatRate test
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05:33 < Mech4221> Umm - stupid newb question... I've created a new macro (following the  stuff in the wiki...) but I what sort of 'asset' interpolates macros ?
05:34 < Mech4221> (eg I have no idea what type of content to place a call to my new macro to see if its works ?)
06:17 < Mech4221> ahh - it appears articles _do_ interpret macros....
06:17 < Mech4221> mine must just be busted
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06:54 < elnino> Hello - Good evening!
06:54 < elnino> I had enabled archiving on my CS systems, and things haven't been archiving after a year. Is there something else I need to enable for archiveing to hapepen?
06:56 < knowmad> elnino: hello; you're up late tonite too
06:56 < elnino> yep. I need to not do this.
06:57 < knowmad> Mech4221: unless you have time and patience for reloading your server, writing tests are the best way to build macros; check out some of the existing tests in WebGUI/t/Macro for examples
06:57 < knowmad> elnino: LOL. that'd make two of us
06:58 < knowmad> not sure about the archiving; we've not used it yet
06:58 < knowmad> i'd be suspicious about spectre
06:58 < elnino> I found a vauge wiki.  I guess I have to create a work flow. So I did. So now I wait. =)
06:58 < knowmad> are there any workflows that are stuck in the queue?
06:59 < knowmad> i'm surprised wG wouldn't do that as part of the daily maintenance workflow
07:02 < elnino> nothing stuck, I just don't know how often workflows run.
07:02 < elnino> I'm a bit surprised too. I may have deleted it. long ago.
07:03 < elnino> I updated the wiki a little bit so it's not as vague. http://www.plainblack.com/community-wiki/archive-old-threads
07:07 < Mech4221> knowmad: thanks :-)  I just got confused because my macro just appears as text (e.g. "^SteveTest;") instead of getting 'eaten' or throwing an error...so I just assumed Articles didn't interpolate macros
07:08 < Mech4221> another silly question - looking at the WObject tutorial on the wiki - the wobject's template is stored in the DB...
07:08 < Mech4221> so how does one go about 'updating' the template ?
07:08 < elnino> haarg - it seems the www.webgui.org search is still broken, you mentioned you were working on it several days ago, perhaps you're still working on it? specifically the bazzar one isn't working, the wiki one works.
07:08 <@Haarg> broken how?
07:11 < elnino> um.. Site search works, but he bazzar one just comes up blank, regardless what I search for.
07:15 < elnino> Mech4221 - which wobject? - when you view properties of an asset or wobject, there is a display tab, and usually on that tab there are drop lists of templates used.
07:15 < elnino> and right of that drop list there is an edit and manage button - 
07:15 < knowmad> Mech4221: or are you talking about the www_view template?
07:15 < elnino> clicking on that will bring you to the template that is stored in the db.
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07:15 < knowmad> also, if you're macro gets spit back out, check rt.log
07:15 < knowmad> usu. in /data/wre/var/logs
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07:16 < elnino> hello again patspam
07:16 < Mech4221> www_view template ( the 'widget' portion ...  but I'd like to put the 'style' templates shown on the display_tab in SVN too) 
07:17 < Mech4221> ahh - so templates are a purely DB thing ?  no filesystem option ?
07:17 < elnino> as far as I know, knowmad may know differently.
07:18 < Mech4221> if so, how do you guys do source control on templates ?
07:18 < elnino> they are versioned, and you can create your own.
07:18 <@Haarg> elnino, this is a different problemthan before.  not sure what yet.  previously there was an error in the code.  now it's just returning nothing.
07:18 < elnino> ok.  just wanted to let you know. Sorry.  =(
07:19 < knowmad> Mech4221: it sounds like you have a system that you are trying to fit into wG
07:19 < knowmad> what is it you're trying to accomplish?
07:20 < Mech4221> knowmad: Umm - not particularly - though I have mostly a 'web framework' and 'general purpose scripting' background - so I tend to want stuff like SVN (actually, mercurial) plus my favorite editor (Kate) etc etc
07:21 < Mech4221> We (plone developers in general) had a hard time with 'thru-the-web' development - So I've used that model before as well
07:21 < knowmad> we use SVN in conjunction with our wG projects but more for managing macros, wobjects and custom tests
07:22 < knowmad> as elnino said, templates are versioned via WebGUI itself; JT has been exploring ways to get filesystem-like access into the database but is hitting obstacles last i heard
07:22 < knowmad> that still wouldn't be exactly like svn though
07:22 < elnino> Mech4221- think of webgui as svn and the asset manager as your file system. Then you'll be fine =) 
07:22 < Mech4221> ok, I wondered if there was some way of using the 'Storage' module to do it and I just wasn't seeing it 
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07:23 < Mech4221> so are there any other pieces that 'live' in the DB? or is everything else FS based ?
07:23 < Mech4221> snippets are db only, right ?
07:23 < knowmad> i wasn't going to mention it, but i'm sure you could write your own www_view to use external files
07:24 < knowmad> then run those through the template engine of your choice (default is HTML::Template)
07:24 < Mech4221> knowmad: just pass my own template thru to the HTML:Template renderer?  We do it that way in pylons...
07:24 < knowmad> 95% is DB-based
07:24 < knowmad> yeah, exactly; we do that with macros to separate concerns
07:25 < Mech4221> knowmad: I could probably grok that given a sample or two...
07:25 < knowmad> but we're using snippets just to keep things all together
07:25 < knowmad> hang on...
07:25 < Mech4221> knowmad: but sounds like I'll need some more experience before worrying about it
07:25 < Mech4221> I'm still on 'Hello World' - so re-jiggering template rendering might be a bit 'advanced' :-)
07:26 < elnino> Mech4221  - handy thing to know. 
07:26 < elnino> when you go around in the asset manger, and come across an asset or template or whatever, 
07:27 < elnino> in the upper right hand corner there is a list of versions and when they were last modified.
07:27 < elnino> you can also view the revisions and roll back if needed.
07:27 < knowmad> yeah, i'd stick with Hello World first; i can't put my hands on a macro with an example of using external template right now
07:27 < knowmad> email me on the forums if you'd like
07:28 < knowmad> Etc would be best
07:28 < elnino> oh.. I just came across one... m.. what was it...
07:28 < Mech4221> elnino: Ahh - found it !  Thanks :-)
07:28 < elnino> the right hand corner?
07:28 < elnino> =)
07:28 < knowmad> Mech4221: did you add the macro to your conf file and restart modperl server?
07:28 < Mech4221> lol - yep - right across from the left hand corner :-)
07:29 < elnino> LOL. 
07:29 < Mech4221> knowmad: the 'restart' was the problem - I ran wreconsole as the 'webgui' user, so I think it lied to me and said modperl restarted when it didn't have the privs to do it ?
07:29 < Mech4221> restarted wreconsole as 'root' and everything was hunky-dory
07:31 < knowmad> yeah, i typically run as root 
07:31 < knowmad> but don't leave it running on a live site as it's unprotected
07:32 < Mech4221> knowmad: yeah - this is just a toy vm for evaling webgui
07:32 < Mech4221> I actually was supposed to have done the eval last weekend - but I got slammed with other work
07:33 < Mech4221> so far my biggest concern is there is a lot to learn...
07:33 < Mech4221> stuff seems pretty logical, performance is good (even on a small vm) - there's just a lot of ground to cover
07:34 < knowmad> there is a definite learning curve but the features and application framework have made the investment worthwhile for us
07:34 < knowmad> what are you looking to accomplish?
07:35 < Mech4221> knowmad: initially - nothing too tough, we need a generic blog app, plus e-commerce for job-postings
07:35 < knowmad> in addition to the free Primer, there are books available that cover content mgt, design, sys admin and development. they can help you get a jumpstart on the process
07:35 < Mech4221> eventually, we'll need to tie into several vendors systems via web-rpc stuff 
07:35 < Mech4221> knowmad: yeah - I've already made it known we need to buy a full set if we're going to attempt to use wG
07:36 < knowmad> the Collab System would support both the blog and the job-postings 
07:36 < Mech4221> the client actually didn't bitch much about the cost of the books - which surprised me :-)
07:36 < knowmad> the web-rpc stuff would prob need to be custom macros or wobjects
07:36 < knowmad> well the software is free after all
07:37 < Mech4221> knowmad: yeah - there's lots of cool stuff in there - it appears after playing with the wG wiki that we might have a wiki as well :-P
07:37 < Mech4221> knowmad: oh yeah - I'm not complaining - just surprised to have found an 'enlightened' client :-)
07:37 < knowmad> oh yeah, that's there and there's a brand new bug tracker coming online in 7.6 which you can see at webgui.org now
07:37 < knowmad> yes, i see your point
07:38 < knowmad> we've been using it for a couple years and have about 15 sites built out
07:38 < knowmad> www.knowmad.com
07:38 < Mech4221> knowmad: have you used other systems besided webgui ?  How did it compare ? strengths/weaknesses ?
07:38 < knowmad> we like the flexibility it provides; there's also a very international user community
07:39 < Mech4221> knowmad: nice looking portfolio sites on your homepage :-)
07:39 < knowmad> we did a review 2 years ago when deciding on a solution
07:39 < knowmad> at this point we've used typo3 and modx via client projects; personally i'm not a big fan of PHP so am a bit biased against those solutions
07:40 < Mech4221> ahh - interesting - modx was one I was thinking we should investigate for this project
07:40 < knowmad> they're great for one off sites but as an agency, we need a solution that helps us to manage multiple sites
07:40 < Mech4221> typo3 looks nice - but I hear its a killer to learn ?
07:40 < knowmad> we can run dozens of sites off a single wG instance
07:40 < knowmad> oiy, let me tell you
07:41 < knowmad> and the version my client is running doesn't even work in Firefox (it's not that old either; maybe a year)
07:41 < knowmad> it seems to have a big european following from what i can tell
07:41 < elnino> Mech4221- I'ved used joomla and dotnetnuke - webgui wins hands down.  We evaluated webgui agains 30K solutions, and typo3, webgui won. 
07:41 < knowmad> i've seen joomla and wouldn't touch it; the plugin system is too loose and ends up not tying back into core functions
07:42 < Mech4221> elnino: joomla just seemed scary - no real security system last I checked ?
07:42 < knowmad> one of my colleagues here in charlotte showed us dotnetnuke and i was somewhat impressed with what he could do; not enough to switch mind you :)
07:42 < elnino> I never looked back on the decision to pick webgui - when ever I think it can't handle something I find out that that it can. - or just needs minor tweaking to fullfil our needs.
07:43 < elnino> I used Joomla for a couple clients. I'm trying to convert them. 
07:43 < Mech4221> we did a 'big' eval about 8 years ago - looked at all sorts of stuff - midgard, typo3, *Nuke, etc etc
07:43 < Mech4221> we ended up with Plone (Python, Zope based)
07:43 < knowmad> that's exactly the problem i saw with one of the modules we were looking at; no file security b/c the developer was a photographer and hadn't bother to figure out how to tie his module back into the core security system
07:43 < knowmad> did you use TAL templates?
07:43 < Mech4221> hell - back then, we used DTML - TAL is the 'new' stuff :-)
07:44 < knowmad> i'm a big fan of TAL; there's a perl module, Petal, which i used for years before switching to wG
07:44 < Mech4221> actually - Plone worked well for us... but the market has changed in the past 8 years, and it was time for a replacement
07:44 < knowmad> one day i might actually port it to wG
07:44 < Mech4221> knowmad: TAL's not bad - very 'elegant' in the use of namespaces to keep the html clean and validating
07:45 < Mech4221> knowmad: but its _slow_
07:45 < Mech4221> knowmad: there's a 'new tal' (z3c) thats a LOT faster
07:45 < knowmad> webgui was rebuilt in 2005-2006 so has a clean API that makes it a great platform for us as a dev shop to do custom work
07:45 < knowmad> plus we get all the security and common features built-in to boot
07:46 < knowmad> i hadn't heard of z3c; i'll check it out
07:46 < Mech4221> its just gotten to the point where the huge system requirements and relatively slow performance of plone wasn't justified by the feature set.  8 years ago - little could touch zope/plone in terms of features and maturity - now its a different story
07:46 < knowmad> yeah, it suffers from being almost too elegant and definitely slow
07:47 < Mech4221> knowmad: check out 'grok' too - its a re-do of a lot Zope technology to support a more 'railsish' application development model...
07:47 < knowmad> do you work with an agency?
07:48 < Mech4221> knowmad: the sad part is Zope 3 is a LOT faster and cleaner then Zope 2 - but plone isn't compatible with it
07:48 < knowmad> yeah, that sounds like it might be a painful upgrade
07:48 < Mech4221> knowmad: I'm a principal in a little shop - just 2 of us and some sub-contractors :-)
07:48 < knowmad> we have 4 staff plus 2 regular subs
07:48 < knowmad> where are you guys located?
07:49 < Mech4221> knowmad: after working with Zope/Plone for so long, I had sort of a 'full-stack toolkit' backlash and started playing with pylons ..
07:49 < Mech4221> oh, we're in San Jose CA
07:49 < knowmad> how did you like that? the community college here uses it and the dev i know really likes it
07:50 < Mech4221> pylons is a very nice 'little' framework... Oh, I _LOVE_ it :-)
07:50 < knowmad> i've done a bit of python pgmming for process automation, mostly maintenance work; it has some nice features which will hopefully make it into Perl 6
07:50 < Mech4221> if you know python, you know pylons :-)  Very small, very simple
07:50 < Mech4221> but not a lot of functionality 'baked in'...
07:50 < knowmad> good to know
07:51 < knowmad> i think that's what php gives for web developers
07:51 < elnino> I'm going to sleep!!!  See ya, nice chatting.
07:51 < knowmad> but 3000+ functions is simply ridiculous and leads to some crappy code
07:51 < Mech4221> you get simple sql connectivity, fast templating language, sessions, routes for dispatching, and a very simple security framework - thats _it_
07:51 < knowmad> elnino: yeah, i need to do the same. good to catch up with you.
07:51 < Mech4221> elnino: nice talking to you too :-)
07:55 < knowmad> Mech4221: hey, i think i'm going to follow elnino. good talking to you. feel free to email me if you have any other questions -- william@knowmad.com
07:56 < Mech4221> knowmad: Thanks!
07:56 < Mech4221> will do :-)
07:56 < Mech4221> and thanks for the help :-)
07:56 < knowmad> yw
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08:46 < wgGuest87> hello?
08:46 < Mech4221> hi
08:46 < wgGuest87> Hi Mech
08:46 < Mech4221> Hi Guest :-)
08:47 < wgGuest87> Hi. My name is Oren BTW 
08:47 < wgGuest87> anyone else here?
08:47 < Mech4221> Hi Oren :-)
08:48 < Mech4221> I think everyone went to bed....
08:49 < wgGuest87> You are in the U.S?
08:49 < Mech4221> yes - I'm in California 
08:49 < Mech4221> you ?
08:49 < wgGuest87> I'm in Israel. It's early morning in this part of the world...
08:51 < Mech4221> ahh... It's almost midnight here :-)
08:51 < wgGuest87> Yea 8 hours differnce
08:51 < Mech4221> though the Europeans might be getting up soon 
08:52 < wgGuest87> I guess so. Anyway, maybe you can help me with a WegGui issue?
08:52 < Mech4221> really ?  I thought Israel was further east (or further east then europe anyway... )
08:52 < Mech4221> I doubt it - but I'm willing to try :-)
08:53 < wgGuest87> Actualy I already posted a question about this in the forum
08:54 < wgGuest87> but in any case I am trying to set up a site... and this is my first experience with WebGui
08:54 < Mech4221> mine too :-)
08:55 < wgGuest87> One of the main features I need is that users will have a personal space... a home page or something like that, that they can edit
08:55 < wgGuest87> I know how to create page layouts owned by users
08:56 < Mech4221> oh - doesn't the 'dashboard' thingy do that ?
08:56 < wgGuest87> It might
08:56 < wgGuest87> I tried useing it and it seem to mess up the whole page
08:57 < wgGuest87> I can use regular page layouts too, I guess
08:58 < wgGuest87> but my question is different: How do I create a page (or any kind of asset for that matter) automaticaly for users when they register
08:58 < Mech4221> Umm - I not sure in wG - but in other CMS systems I've used, that would be in the workflows ?
08:58 < Mech4221> s/I/I'm/
08:59 < wgGuest87> Maybe..
08:59 < wgGuest87> I will check that
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08:59 < wgGuest87> Hi Bob
08:59 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@87.213.33.210] has joined #webgui
09:00 < AMH_bob> Hi wgGuest87
09:00 < wgGuest87> :-)
09:00 < AMH_bob> and dapperedodo of course ...
09:00 < wgGuest87> Hi Dapper
09:00 < Mech4221> wgGuest87: oh hey - they have training videos... http://www.plainblack.com/wgtv/dashboards
09:01 < wgGuest87> Thanks, I'll have a look
09:02 < Mech4221> wgGuest87: if it helps any - its says admin 'doesn't get to play' with dashboards... so maybe you were admin when it messed up your page ?
09:03 < wgGuest87> Maybe.
09:04 < dapperedodo> morning
09:04 < wgGuest87> May I repeat my question for the people who just joun? Perhaps one of you can help me?
09:05 < wgGuest87> I am setting up a site which is part like a social network
09:06 < wgGuest87> so I need users to have "home pages" that they can edit, add assets to, etc.
09:06 < wgGuest87> These pages may be dashboards or just plain page layouts. That is not the problem
09:07 < wgGuest87> My problem is this: I want the home pages of users to be created for them when tehy register
09:07 < wgGuest87> I also want that when users login they will go to their home pages and not to the root
09:09 < wgGuest87> hello?
09:11 < Mech4221> wgGuest87: sorry - thats beyond me :-/
09:11 < wgGuest87> Anyone else?
09:12 < wgGuest87> I just need some kind of a general recepie. I can figure out the details myself, I guess...
09:13 < wgGuest87> Okay, Thanks anyway :-)
09:13 < wgGuest87> You did help me with the link to the dashboard help. I might be able to use that...
09:14 < wgGuest87> bye
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16:48 < SDuensin> Hello!
16:48 <+MrHairgrease> Howdy!
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16:52 < AMH_bob> howdy
16:52 < SDuensin> I finally worked out my psycho WebGUI upgrade and tested it.  Now I just need "real" work to get out of the way so I can do it.  :-)
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17:25 < carogray> what would be the syntax for getting the right AM or PM when using meridiem variable for an events time
17:25 < carogray> ?
17:25 < carogray> good morning/afternoon
17:32 <@perlmonkey2> We SOOOOO need a new wobject that uses a carousel to rotate articles
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17:33 <@perlmonkey2> That would be frick'n sexy beyond words if people could whip up a fancy carousel in a few seconds and then stick it anywhere they wanted.
17:33 <@perlmonkey2> YUI 2.6 now has one
17:33 <+MrHairgrease> pm2: you could prolly do that by integrating the yui caroussel into a layout template
17:34 <@perlmonkey2> MrHairgrease: brilliant
17:34 <+MrHairgrease> it is =)
17:35 <@perlmonkey2> wow, I going to have to try to do that tonight.
17:35 <@perlmonkey2> s/I/I am/
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17:41 < dionak> that is nice
17:42 < dionak> and would be very useful for articles, especially on news sites implemented in webgui
17:50 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7895 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetClipboard.pm): fixed #8776: duplicate does not duplicate keywords
17:50 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7896 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetClipboard.pm): fixed #8776: duplicate does not duplicate keywords
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18:50 < crythias1> hrm.
18:52 < crythias1> is there a field for an article's date of commit/save/post/something?
18:53 <@Haarg> revisionDate or creationDate
18:53 <@Haarg> revisionDate is last edit
18:54 < crythias1> probably revisionDate, to include pretty print in an article template
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18:56 < crythias1> so... do I need to sqlreport article revisionDate?
19:00 <@perlmonkey2> content-dispositionattachment; filename="test-survey-2_composite.tab"
19:00 <@perlmonkey2> content-dispositionattachment; filename="test%20survey%202.tab"
19:00 <@perlmonkey2> Is that an encoding issue, an html entities issue, or what?  Because IE6 is cool with the first and chokes on the second.
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19:04 <@Haarg> i'd have to check the specs on that
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19:13 <+perlDreamer> In the new bug system, if I comment on a closed bug does it automatically reopen?
19:14 <@Haarg> closed no
19:14 <@Haarg> resolved yes
19:14 < Lisette> hi perlDreamer
19:14 <+perlDreamer> Semantically, what is the difference between resolved and closed?
19:14 < Lisette> what is the parentId of the product?
19:14 <@Haarg> one automatically reopens :)
19:15 <+perlDreamer> Lisette, assets are laid out like a tree
19:15 <+perlDreamer> the parentId is the assetId of whichever asset "owns" the Product.
19:15 <+perlDreamer> Haarg: gotcha :)
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19:29 < zylopfa> Can anyone tell me how i can get script errors displayed in error log?
19:29 < zylopfa> like if i forget a ; or a " 
19:29 <+perlDreamer> use $session->log->warn
19:29 <+perlDreamer> oh
19:29 <+perlDreamer> no way to do that for a script
19:29 < zylopfa> I dont get normal error message
19:29 < zylopfa> damn it
19:29 <+perlDreamer> how about doing perl -wc myScript.pl
19:29 < zylopfa> Its very long development time for me like that
19:30 < zylopfa> no its in a module
19:30 < zylopfa> Payment module i make
19:30 <+perlDreamer> same thing, zylopfa
19:30 < zylopfa> so its warning?
19:30 <+perlDreamer> perl -wc -I /data/WebGUI/lib myModule.pm
19:30 < zylopfa> ohh sweet
19:30 <+perlDreamer> and you don't even need to restart Apache to do that
19:30 <+perlDreamer> in vim, you can make a bindkey to do it for you
19:31 <+perlDreamer> or you can override the write method to automatically syntax check before it writes
19:31 < zylopfa> perlDreamer, it goes to some interactive mode when i write it
19:32 <+perlDreamer> perl -wc -(Capital I) /data/WebGUI/lib myModule.pm 
19:32 < zylopfa> so i need the entire path?
19:32 <+perlDreamer> yes
19:32 < zylopfa> ahh ofc
19:32 < zylopfa> i need the lib
19:33 <+perlDreamer> yes, because, depending on where you invoke perl, it doesn't know how to find any webgui modules that your module uses
19:33 < zylopfa> yeah ofc :D
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19:34 < zylopfa> Thanks a 1000 million perlDreamer 
19:34 < zylopfa> this just took hours off my development
19:34 < zylopfa> cause i some times forget a " or something else thats a syntax error
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19:36 < zylopfa> perlDreamer, when i do a $output .= << "EndOfText";
19:36 < zylopfa> and i interpolate variables inside
19:36 < zylopfa> it says error
19:37 < zylopfa> that it require explicit package name
19:37 <+perlDreamer> zylopfa, are you using "use strict" in your module?
19:37 < zylopfa> yeah
19:37 <@apeiron> zylopfa, Declare $output.
19:37 < zylopfa> It is 
19:37 < zylopfa> my $output = "something";
19:37 <@apeiron> zylopfa, Pastebot the code, please.
19:37 < zylopfa> roger that
19:38 <@apeiron> There's a communications error between you and perl. :)
19:38 < zylopfa> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m7aac9b74
19:38 < zylopfa> haha yeah
19:38 < zylopfa> LOL
19:38 < zylopfa> its a typo
19:38 < zylopfa> sorry apeiron to waste your time
19:39 < zylopfa> its a case sensitive error
19:39 <@apeiron> No worries, I do the same thing all the time.
19:39 < zylopfa> Most my errors are like that
19:40 <+perlDreamer> zylopfa, if this payment module is to be put into the core, it will need to be internationalized.
19:40 < zylopfa> I got a good testing tip from perlDreamer : 
19:40 < zylopfa> perlDreamer, exactly
19:40 <+perlDreamer> good, just checking :)
19:40 < zylopfa> i am just making some testing
19:40 < zylopfa> the perl -wc -I ... trick realy saved me
19:43 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7897 /translations/German/German/ (Asset_Matrix.pm Asset_WikiMaster.pm Asset_WikiPage.pm): Update from translation server
19:44 < zylopfa> I am gonna internationalize it now, its best to do it as you go, imo
19:57 < zylopfa> Does anyone know if Digest::SHA is default installed with webgui?
19:57 < zylopfa> or a similar thing that can calcualte sha-512 digests
19:57 < carogray> trying to use meridiem calendar date variable and getting stuck
19:58 < carogray> anyone up for this q?
19:58 < zylopfa> Not sure what you mean
19:59 < carogray> meridiem keeps giving me AM - no matter what
20:01 < zylopfa> Isn't it a setting in the user profile?
20:01 < zylopfa> wether to use am times or military time
20:01 < zylopfa> ohh propablt not whatr you asked
20:01 < zylopfa> I dont know about this :(
20:02 < carogray> Calendar Date/Time variables
20:02 < carogray> Sometimes these variables have a prefix, like "start" or "end".                                  In that case, the first letter of the variables below is capitalized, so                                 "monthName" with a prefix of "start" becomes "startMonthName".
20:02 < carogray> meridiem is one of these variables
20:03 < carogray> I am getting eventStartDateHour and eventStartDateMinute to work as well as corresponding End variables, but can't get the meridiem to work
20:04 < zylopfa> I am dont know anything about the calendar :(
20:04 < carogray> I would have thought it would show up if I put in eventStartDateMeridiem
20:04 < carogray> that gives nothing
20:05 < carogray> hmmm well I will just keep asking...thanks
20:06 <+perlDreamer> carogray, I would file it as a bug
20:06 <+perlDreamer> Give the complete setup on how to duplicate it
20:08 < carogray> I keep thinking I am just not asking for the right combination of these words like should it just be eventStartMeridiem, or eventStartDateHourMeridiem, etc - not a bug if I am the buggy one
20:15 <@perlmonkey2> So a wobject can't override header settings by calls to session->http?  I'm trying to change the cache-control header and not having any luck.
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20:25 <+perlDreamer> unless you're dealing with a layout, due to chunking, by the time a wobject is called it's too late.
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20:26 <+perlDreamer> at least, that's how I think it works...
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20:46 <+perlDreamer> carogray, the list of Template variables is in the online Help for the Event Calendar.  Have you looked there?
20:46 <+perlDreamer> You shouldn't have to guess.
21:02 < zylopfa> perlDreamer, what when my payment module use SHA-512 digests and its  not in the WRE?
21:28 < CIA-39> WebGUI: frank * r7898 /experimental/HelpDesk/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Ticket.pm: fixed a permissions problem for individual tickets. Should be checking parent view privielges, not super
21:28 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7899 /translations/German/German/ (Asset.pm Auth.pm): Update from translation server
21:28 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7900 /translations/German/German/Asset_Matrix.pm: Update from translation server
21:28 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7901 /translations/German/German/Asset_Photo.pm: Update from translation server
21:39 <+perlDreamer> zylopfa, if it's not in the WRE, then there's a problem.
21:40 <+perlDreamer> people will need to install the module by hand
21:40 <+perlDreamer> and wait for the next WRE release before it is included by default
21:40 < zylopfa> ahh ok
21:40 < zylopfa> who do i need to contact, so they can put it in?
21:40 <+perlDreamer> well, first of all, we should determine if it's already in the WRE
21:41 <+perlDreamer> rizen approves/denies all new module proposals
21:41 < zylopfa> ahh ok
21:41 < zylopfa> I installed webgui from source, so i dont quite know if its in
21:41 <+perlDreamer> WRE includes Digest-HMAC, Digest-MD5, DIgest-SHA1
21:42 <+perlDreamer> https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/view/wrebuild/build.sh
21:42 < zylopfa> ahh sweet
21:42 <+perlDreamer> URL to WRE build script with all modules currently included
21:42 < zylopfa> thanks a lot
21:43 < carogray> perDreamer: I keep thinking I am just not asking for the right combination of these words like should it just be eventStartMeridiem, or eventStartDateHourMeridiem, etc - not a bug if I am the buggy one 
21:43 < carogray> that's where I read about these various things...
21:44 < carogray> the variable in the help just is meridiem
21:45 < carogray> but the instructions tell me I might need to put different words in front - so far I guessed right with the eventStartDateHour and eventStartDateMinute and the same for end
21:45 < carogray> just can't figure out what it should be for meridiem
21:45 < carogray> same pattern or different
21:53 <+perlDreamer> well, if you guess a variable that does not exist, it won't print anything
21:53 <+perlDreamer> so the fact that it always says AM tells me that it is a bug
21:55 < carogray> oh I see
21:56 < carogray> I was just thinking it didn't know what meridiem I was asking it for...like the meridiem of the start or the meridiem of the end or the hour or...you know
21:56 < carogray> ok - actually I think I have never posted a bug before - is it somewhere on sourceforge I go?
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21:58 <@Haarg> http://www.webgui.org/bugs
22:00 < carogray> Haarg: thanks
22:02 <+perlDreamer> carogray, posting bugs gives you karma
22:02 <+perlDreamer> which you can use to vote on RFEs, or buy merchandise from PB.com
22:02 < carogray> oh brother - now I am really stupid
22:03 < carogray> I went there, I searched on "meridiem" without quotes - 0 results, but now, how do I post it?
22:03 <+perlDreamer> Click on the Report a Bug link above the search screen
22:04 < carogray> do I have to be logged in?
22:05 <+perlDreamer> I've never tried to submit a ticket without being logged, so I don't know
22:05 < carogray> oh I guess I must if you are talking about karma
22:05 <+perlDreamer> Yes
22:05 <+perlDreamer> if you want the karma, you must be logged in.
22:05 < carogray> ok - yep
22:05 < carogray> if I want to report a bug I have to be logged in!
22:05 <+perlDreamer> Yep.  I just logged out and saw that too.
22:05 < carogray> allright here I go
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22:25 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7902 /translations/German/German/Asset_RichEdit.pm: Update from translation server
22:25 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7903 /translations/German/German/Activity_RequestApprovalForVersionTag_ByCommitterGroup.pm: Update from translation server
22:38 < zylopfa> is the 'eq' operator case sensitive?
22:40 <+perlDreamer> yes
22:40 < zylopfa> ok :D
22:40 < zylopfa> thanks
22:40 <@apeiron> zylopfa, Unless the programmer asks otherwise, all text operations in Perl are case-sensitive.
22:40 <+perlDreamer> perldoc perlop 
22:40 < zylopfa> uc is my friend then
22:40 <+perlDreamer> exactly
22:40 <@apeiron> Or lc.
22:40 <+perlDreamer> or lc
22:40 < zylopfa> i am comparing sha-256 strings
22:40  * apeiron eyes perlDreamer 
22:41 < zylopfa> so i am uc'ing them
22:41 <+perlDreamer> Just ignore the neurocannula apeiron
22:41 <@apeiron> er?
22:41 < zylopfa> cause the gw sends it in upper
22:41 <@apeiron> If you're comparing SHA-256 digests, shouldn't case be important?
22:41 < zylopfa> and perl make em in lower as default
22:41 < zylopfa> aperion not when i have hex'ed it
22:41 <@apeiron> Ah, only one case? whoops. <_<
22:41 <+perlDreamer> apeiron: http://www.itsf.org/resources/factsheet.php?fsID=206
22:41 < zylopfa> its hex digits
22:42 <@apeiron> perlDreamer, ooh, neat.
22:42 < zylopfa> perlDreamer, I already found errors in my Payment Gateway Providers documentation
22:42 < zylopfa> but its not much its a posted variable they say is called Signature but its called signature with a small s
22:46 < zylopfa> I will uppercase both signatures just in case the provider change his to lowercase
22:47 < zylopfa> perlDreamer, which part of a GUID is most likely to be random among other GUIDS. is it the first part or the last?
22:48 <+perlDreamer> It's a cryptographic hash.  All parts are equally random.
22:48 < zylopfa> ahh ok
22:48 <+perlDreamer> Unless you use one of the existing MD5 cracking algorithms to create a duplicate hash
22:48 < zylopfa> I am still working on my problem cause i need it to be 20 alphanumeric digits
22:48 <+perlDreamer> In which case it's not random at all...
22:49 < zylopfa> I just cant understand why my gateway provider choose that order numbers can only be 20 alphanumeric digits
22:49 < zylopfa> its a bug imo
22:49 <+perlDreamer> probably due to their choice of db
22:49 < zylopfa> haah yeha 
22:51 < zylopfa> but perlDreamer the "reference" field that you can also post is 255 chars, and can be anything you want
22:51 <+perlDreamer> hmmmm......
22:51 <+perlDreamer> perhaps you can put a GUID in there?
22:52 < zylopfa> I am
22:52 < zylopfa> BUT!
22:52 < zylopfa> I am suspecting that when i do recurring
22:52 <@Haarg> even with 20 characters of random alpha numeric, the chances of duplication are so small you don't need to worry about it
22:52 < zylopfa> that the gw will only send the order number for reference
22:52 < zylopfa> So Haarg can i create a random 20 char string myself? and "hope" it wont dublicate
22:53 <@Haarg> use a guid, replace the characters that are invalid, and cut it at 22 characters
22:53 <@Haarg> 20 rather
22:53 < zylopfa> Thanks a lot!
22:54 < zylopfa> I have tested the gw, it will make error also if its dublicate
23:19 < zylopfa> Sometimes i wonder why Webgui isnt heard of so much as the noob cms systems like drupal
23:20 < zylopfa> In denmark yesterday they got a problem with drupal on a newspaper site
23:20 < zylopfa> all visitors suddenly had full admin access to the site
23:21 < zylopfa> They said it was because of an admin cookie that was set
23:21 < zylopfa> Must be a flawed access system, if they set admin access variables in cookies
23:21 < zylopfa> instead of checking sessions against the database
23:22 < metanil> how do i create a page automatically within any perlmodule..(say from macro)?
23:22 < zylopfa> I want to know that also metanil 
23:22 <+perlDreamer> what do you mean by "create a page"?
23:23 < zylopfa> for example upon user creation
23:23 < zylopfa> create a user subtree
23:23 < zylopfa>  /siteusers/user
23:23 < metanil> rather than going manually from admin menu.. create a asset (page) and fill the content in it.. do "Save".. 
23:23 < zylopfa> and under there create pages or content automatically
23:24 < metanil> zylofa: i'm kinda doing same.. ;)
23:24 < Bernd_> Check "perldoc asset"
23:24 < Bernd_> There is a function for creating new assets
23:25 < Bernd_> I assume that it is inherited by other wobjects.
23:25 < Bernd_> Right, perlDreamer?
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23:28 < metanil> i think we can use direct asset (like page, layout, Wiki, Calendar...) for creating them.. 
23:29 < zylopfa> Awesome Bernd_ 
23:29 < zylopfa> Also we can look at the function for "site startup" when you make a new webgui site, it create a site starter
23:29 < zylopfa> where you can choose different things for layout and it create a site itself
23:31 < Bernd_> Hmm, there is no function for creating a new Page Layout in Layout.pm
23:31 < Bernd_> Must be somewhere in Asset.pm or Wobject.pm
23:32 <+perlDreamer> You use Asset->addChild to add new pages
23:32 < zylopfa> imba
23:32 <+perlDreamer> so, build an asset that you want to hold the page
23:32 <+perlDreamer> my $genericHome = WebGUI::Asset->getDefault($session);
23:32 <+perlDreamer> my $userHome = $genericHome->addChild({lots of parameters go in here});
23:33 <+perlDreamer> you can build a custom workflow which runs on user creation
23:33 <+perlDreamer> look for that in the settings
23:33 < Bernd_> Are you sure? addChild does not exist according to docs.
23:33 < zylopfa> Sick awesome!
23:33 < Bernd_> Wasn't there a getImportNode in between?
23:33 <+perlDreamer> perldoc WebGUI::AssetLineage, or WebGUI::AssetBranch
23:33 < zylopfa> perlDreamer, you have to make sure the user in the $session is the admin user
23:33 <+perlDreamer> yes, but the importNode is for other purposes
23:33 <+perlDreamer> zylopfa, not always
23:33 < zylopfa> ohh
23:34 <+perlDreamer> but it must be a user who can edit the defaultHome
23:34 < zylopfa> ahh yeah
23:34 <+perlDreamer> so, admin is good
23:35 < Bernd_> perlDreamer, is AssetLineage mixed into Asset?
23:35 <+perlDreamer> Bernd_: yes
23:35 < Bernd_> Alright. Now I understand.
23:35 <+perlDreamer> it makes it hard to track down methods
23:36 <+perlDreamer> I need to learn to use tags in vim
23:36 < Bernd_> Is that mentioned in the docs or do I have to check the source for that.
23:36 < Bernd_> ?
23:36 <+perlDreamer> which docs?
23:36 < Bernd_> POD
23:36 <+perlDreamer> I would love a POD patch which said which other modules to check for asset methods
23:37 < Bernd_> So it is not obvious from POD currently.
23:37 <+perlDreamer> no
23:37 < Bernd_> Thanks.
23:37 <+perlDreamer> you have to know that Asset uses AssetLineage, AssetBranch, AssetVersion, AssetExportHtml, etc.
23:38 < Bernd_> But isn't the export of methods from these packages stated somewhere?
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23:39 <+perlDreamer> only in use statements in Asset.pm
23:39 < Bernd_> I can ss
23:39 < Bernd_> I can see "use" declarations.
23:39 < Bernd_> But nothing else.
23:40 < Bernd_> I thought that exported methods need to be declared?
23:40 <@Haarg> those other files don't have their own package
23:40 <+perlDreamer> Bernd_, I'm sorry.  methods are not exported
23:40 <+perlDreamer> only subroutines are
23:40 <@Haarg> they have the package WebGUI::Asset
23:40 <@Haarg> so the subs all end up in the same package/class
23:41 < Bernd_> But AssetLineage.pm declares the package WebGUI::AssetLineage
23:41 < Bernd_> So why can I call methods in AssetLineage
23:41 < Bernd_> through Asset?
23:41 <@Haarg> check the files
23:42 <@Haarg> the package they go into has no relation to the filename
23:42 <@Haarg> AssetLineage.pm line 1: package WebGUI::Asset;
23:42 < Bernd_> You are right.
23:42 <+perlDreamer> It's an easy way to create mixins
23:42 < Mech4221> whee!  busy channel - Did I miss anything interesting in the scrollback ?
23:42 < Bernd_> But POD is wrong then.
23:43 <+perlDreamer> No
23:43 <+perlDreamer> POD is file based
23:43 <+perlDreamer> not package based
23:43 < Bernd_> There is a line Package WebGUI::AssetLineage
23:43 < Bernd_> later on.
23:43 < Bernd_> I mean in the doc section.
23:43 < Bernd_> Should be changed, maybe.
23:44 < Bernd_> I am talking about line 21 in AssetLineage.pm
23:45 <+perlDreamer> I see it.
23:45 < Bernd_> Is that correct?
23:45 < Bernd_> I find it somewhat confusing.
23:45 <+perlDreamer> I think it's a stumbling block.
23:45 <@Haarg> it should probably be changed
23:45 < Bernd_> RFE? Or bug report?
23:46 <@Haarg> bug
23:46 <+perlDreamer> patch ? ;)
23:46 < Bernd_> I do not have access.
23:46 < Bernd_> The patch is up to you.
23:46 <+perlDreamer> you can still make a patch
23:46 <+perlDreamer> I'll apply it
23:46 <@Haarg> you can still make a patch and post it
23:46 <+perlDreamer> bugs with patches almost always get fixed immediately
23:47 < Bernd_> Isn't that a bit cumbersome?
23:47 <+perlDreamer> Oh no
23:47 <+perlDreamer> Saves us tons of time
23:47 < Bernd_> I mean, can't you change it while we are talking?
23:47 <+perlDreamer> Not and keep doing my day job
23:47 < Bernd_> I mean, in this particular case?
23:47 <@Haarg> well, it shouldn't just be changing the package
23:48 <+perlDreamer> There is a very large, angry ex-Football player who demands that schedules be met
23:48 <@Haarg> it should note how the mixins work
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23:48 < Bernd_> So, what has to be in the patch.
23:48 < Bernd_> I mean apart from that single line change.
23:49 < Bernd_> Oh, you mean I should update documentation?
23:50 <@Haarg> i'm not certain the best way to document it really
23:51 < Bernd_> Stating it in the synopsis should probably be fine.
23:51 < Bernd_> Currently, the lineage is mentioned.
23:51 < Bernd_> But it is not clear that it is mixed in.
23:51 <@Haarg> well, it is stated, the language just isn't entirely clear.
23:51 <@Haarg> i'm going to have to mess with assetexporthtml.t some more i guess.  is uses the default site content instead of creating its own.
23:51 < Bernd_> Well, I did not get it for my part.
23:52 < Bernd_> assetexporthtml.t?
23:52 <@Haarg> unrelated to this issue
23:52 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@129.sub-75-207-80.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:52 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, what do you want done?  It's passing on the smoke test
23:53 <+perlDreamer> and on my box
23:53 <+perlDreamer> brb
23:53 <@Haarg> my reset script clears all the default content from the pages - the articles and images etc
23:53 < Bernd_> Alright, going to bed.
23:53 < Bernd_> Enjoy hacking!
23:53 <@Haarg> so it fails for me
23:53 -!- Bernd_ [n=spunky@dslb-092-078-012-040.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
23:54 <@Haarg> overall i just think it would be better if it didn't depend on the default page content
23:54 < Mech4221> I was looking at 'The people behind WG last nite'...
23:55 < Mech4221> and was interested to see how many of them are NOT programmers
23:55 < Mech4221> kinda cool - its not often an open source projects gives 'non-coders' such recognition
23:55 < Mech4221> :-)
23:56 <+perlDreamer> Mech4221, we need everyone :)
23:56 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, make you a deal
23:56 <+perlDreamer> I'll create a set of content to make
23:56 <+perlDreamer> if you'll tackle the syntaxCheck.t failures
23:56 <@Haarg> sure :)
23:56 <@Haarg> syntaxCheck is failing now?
23:56 <+perlDreamer> yes
23:57 <@Haarg> i'm running through the tests right now, so i'll be going over it.
23:57 <+perlDreamer> on my box, and in the nightlies from preactino
23:57 <@Haarg> ok
23:57 <+perlDreamer> For me, no script passes
23:57 <@Haarg> you know what kind of failures it is getting?
23:58 <+perlDreamer> I'll rerun and paste you some data
23:59 <+perlDreamer> perl is throwing these kinds of errors:
23:59 <+perlDreamer> Can't ignore signal CHLD, forcing to default
23:59 <@Haarg> hmm
23:59 <+perlDreamer> the syntax check is clean, but perl still returns -1
23:59 <+perlDreamer> so both the output and status checks fail
23:59 <@Haarg> odd.  i'll look into it though
--- Day changed Fri Oct 10 2008
00:04 < Mech4221> oh - someone asked an interesting question last nite....
00:05 < Mech4221> How do you automagically populate content / create pages when a user registers with a webgui site?  Is that done via a workflow ?
00:08 <@Haarg> that could be done with a custom workflow
00:09 <+perlDreamer> Mech4221, backlog about about an hour or so
00:09 <+perlDreamer> we talked about this
00:10 <@Haarg> perlDreamer, i can't duplicate that here or on a redhat 4 server
00:10 <+perlDreamer> hm
00:10 <@Haarg> can you paste your perl -V
00:10 < Mech4221> perlDreamer: ahh cool - I got lazy as the backlog was so long :-)
00:12 <+perlDreamer> Haarg: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m3eeb53bd
00:13 <@Haarg> and what distro?
00:14 <+perlDreamer> FC6
00:14 <+perlDreamer> I can try on FC9 tonight
00:14 < Mech4221> perlDreamer: cool - good to know the hooks are there ...
00:15 <+perlDreamer> we do try, Mech4221
00:15 < Mech4221> perlDreamer: one other stupid newb question - I was watching the 'cool javascript tricks' video on wgtv last nite...
00:15  * perlDreamer points out that his nick is not jsDreamer ;)
00:15 < Mech4221> perlDreamer: and the one thing they didn't cover was how you get the js libs (YUI say) into the templates...
00:15 <+perlDreamer> just load them in a script tag
00:16 < Mech4221> perlDreamer: Do you have to modify the templates directly, or is there some sort of generic 'include this' type functionality - like there is for keywords ?
00:17 <+perlDreamer> Mech4221, from the user point of view, unless the asset already loads the JS in the HTTP header, they would have to be included manually.
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00:17 <@rizen> Mech4221: how do you know about wgtv?
00:17 < Mech4221> perlDreamer: thanks :-)
00:17 < Mech4221> rizen: umm... I think site search pulled up a result from it... then I went to get back to it later and couldn't find it in the site nav.
00:18 <@rizen> i c
00:18 < Mech4221> rizen: btw - we couldn't get the 'database driven developement' video to fully stream - it breaks about 2 miinutes in..
00:18 <@rizen> it's not officially launched yet
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00:18 <@rizen> there are probably all kinds of problems with it
00:21 <+perlDreamer> good luck on PPW this weekend rizen
00:21 <@rizen> i'm not on the schedule yet
00:21 <+perlDreamer> huh?
00:21 <@rizen> s/yet/anymore/
00:21 <+perlDreamer> you got bumped?
00:21 <@rizen> yeah
00:21 <+perlDreamer> dude
00:21 <+perlDreamer> well, one less trip
00:22 <@rizen> i was originally supposed to get a 4 hour workshop and a 1 hour speech
00:22 <@rizen> they gave me the speech but not the workshop
00:22 <@rizen> and i have a lot of stuff going on at PB right now, so i decided to skip it
00:22 <@rizen> wasn't worth making the trip to pittsburgh for 1 hour
00:22 <@rizen> especially since it's going to be maybe 20 peeps attending my session
00:23 <@rizen> given the other talks that were going on at the same time
00:24 < zylopfa> Aha nice rizen , just saw now that you are JT Smith
00:24 <@rizen> indeed
00:25 <@rizen> so Mech4221, since you did see wgtv, what do you think so far? a good resource?
00:25 < zylopfa> rizen, btw i bought the developer book 
00:26 <@rizen> sweet zylopfa. has it arrived yet?
00:26 -!- bopbop [n=kmccombs@68-114-219-232.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []
00:26 < zylopfa> yeah and i love it
00:26 < zylopfa> It really got me out of the starthole
00:26 <@rizen> it would be super sweet to see a review of the book online some place
00:26 <@rizen> would you be interested in writing it?
00:26 < zylopfa> I have some corrections for it though, some of the code wont run, but its good cause then you are forced to understand it to make it work
00:26 < zylopfa> yeah I would indeed
00:27 <@apeiron> I'm pretty sure use.perl takes book reviews. perlmonks does, too.
00:27 < Mech4221> rizen: it looked pretty slick - I especially liked having the notes available for download along with the video - most conf. videos don't show the screen very well, and this makes it easy to follow along..
00:27 < Mech4221> rizen: SnowWrite (my partner in crime) does skinning (plone mostly) - and she would _really_ like the skinning webgui video to work...
00:28 <@rizen> Mech4221: once wgtv is announced, if they are still borked, post a bug about it and we'll try to fix it. in some cases the archival video is borked so there's nothing we can do about it
00:28 <@rizen> but in other cases, just re-encoding the vid will fix it
00:30 < Mech4221> rizen: it looks like a very good resource :-)
00:31 <@rizen> mech4221: i hope so. it doesn't beat buying docs, support, or attending a live WUC, but it is something to fit in between those resources
00:31 < Mech4221> rizen: the problem is, the docs are understandably expensive - the video's fill the 'quick overview' niche for people like us that are just 'eval'ing the system
00:32 < Mech4221> rizen: for instance, one of the standard 'build a wiki in 15 minutes with webgui' videos would be nice..
00:32 < Mech4221> rizen: even though webgui has a wiki built in, that is the 'standard' demo that other toolkits use
00:32 < Mech4221> rizen: so it would be a good way to compare webgui development to other systems.
00:35 <@rizen> Mech4221: please make that an RFE and we'll put someone on doing that
00:36 < Mech4221> rizen: umm - sure... lemme go poke plainblacks website and see if I can figure out where/how :-)
00:36 <@rizen> webgui.org/rfe
00:36 <@rizen> you need to be logged in to post
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00:37 < Mech4221> LOL - SnowWrite wants a stuffed Gooey - she says its very cute branding :-)
00:38 <+perlDreamer> __everybody__ wants a stuffed Gooey
00:38 <@rizen> you get them free at the WUC and the various trade shows we attend
00:38 <@rizen> or you can buy them at webguistore.com
00:40 <@rizen> we gave out 1100 of them at OSCON this year: http://www.webgui.org/wg/promote/gooey-on-the-go/oscon-2008-colins-pictures
00:40 < zylopfa> rizen do you know drupal?
00:41 <@rizen> more pics: http://www.webgui.org/wg/promote/gooey-on-the-go/oscon-2008
00:41 <@rizen> zylopfa: i know how to use it a little, but i've never programmed for it
00:42 < zylopfa> There was a story in denmark about it, it was sending out cookies that made all visitors have full admin rights
00:42 < zylopfa> it was to a news site
00:43 <@rizen> we all have our security gaffs
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00:43 < zylopfa> yeah
00:43 < zylopfa> I need to learn how to make test suites also for my PayDriver modules
00:43 <@rizen> early on in webgui's history there was a bug that if you did the right thing in exactly the right way, you could make all your pages editable by visitor, without even logging in
00:44 <@rizen> there is a great testing chapter in the book you just bought...written by perlDreamer
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00:46 < zylopfa> sweet rizen i saw about that, its good its first makes a statement about the code quality aspired by webguiteam
00:47 <+perlDreamer> first?
00:47  * perlDreamer gulps
00:47 < zylopfa> yeah more or less
00:47 <+perlDreamer> I hope bopbop reviewed it very carefully
00:47 < zylopfa> there is a little overview first
00:48 <+perlDreamer> zylopfa, were the jokes too corny?
00:48 < SnowWrite> Hi, I wanted to introduce myself :)
00:48 < Mech4221> oh god
00:48  * Mech4221 runs
00:48 < zylopfa> haah no perlDreamer it was good
00:48 < SnowWrite> LOL get back here
00:48 < Mech4221> I dun wanna!
00:48 < zylopfa> I think it was expensive for euro-people
00:48 < zylopfa> but its well worth it anyway for me
00:49 < Mech4221> Umm - this is my partner (in crime?) SnowWrite
00:49 < zylopfa> Greetings SnowWrite 
00:49 < Mech4221> she does our skinning and project management stuff
00:49 < SnowWrite> hi zylopfa :-)
00:49 <@rizen> Welcome SnowWrite
00:49 < Mech4221> and training, and everything else that doesn't involve a power cord
00:49 <+perlDreamer> Mech4221, what's your company called?
00:49 < Mech4221> C Squared Tech - http://www.csquaredtech.com
00:49 < SnowWrite> oh bleah.. don't look at our website yet
00:49 < SnowWrite> noooo
00:50 < Mech4221> Ha!
00:50 < Mech4221> Now you _have_ to update the dam site :-P
00:50 < SnowWrite> I'm updating it darnit.. lol
00:50 <+perlDreamer> That's one way to motivate your graphics designer
00:50 < SnowWrite> actually I'm not the designer.. I do the templating :-) we hired someone..and I haven't finished the template yet
00:50 <@rizen> Plone!
00:50  * SnowWrite blushes
00:50 < SnowWrite> totally LOL
00:51 <@rizen> Mech4221: you said you're evalling webgui, but i've seen you in the channel before...how long have you been evalling?
00:51 < Mech4221> rizen: on and off for about 2 weeks now..
00:51  * SnowWrite has been doing Plone for 8 years
00:51  * SnowWrite is ready for a change
00:52  * perlDreamer is stuck using Plone for $dayJob
00:52 < Mech4221> rizen: I was supposed to do a 'toy project' in webgui last weekend to play with macros, assets, etc  -but I got hammered with other work
00:52 < zylopfa> My company "under development site" is this: http://titlan.globalcontrol.biz/
00:52 <+perlDreamer> It sucks
00:52 < SnowWrite> which version perlDreamer?
00:52 < Mech4221> rizen: but I've spent about 40+ hours reading, googling and watching the videos
00:52  * SnowWrite is interested in the skinning aspect of WebGui
00:52 < Mech4221> perlDreamer: Really?  How would you compare webgui to plone ?
00:53 < SnowWrite> and of course the stuffed Gooey too
00:53 <+perlDreamer> Mech4221: It's just as a user.  I have no idea how to check the version.
00:54 < Mech4221> perlDreamer: ahh - plone 2.X had a pretty abstruse programming model - very steep learning curve (the 'Z' shaped learning curve)
00:54 < Mech4221> perlDreamer: plone 3.X is a lot cleaner - but still lots of 'magic' to it
00:54 < zylopfa> perlDreamer, i need your opinion
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00:54 <+perlDreamer> lay it on me, zylopfa
00:54 < SnowWrite>  /me must go for a bit.. 
00:54 < zylopfa> My PayDriver for this danish provider has 2 ways to do it
00:54  * SnowWrite will be back
00:54 < zylopfa> one where the data it sends back is just as is
00:55 < zylopfa> and one where the data is send +a signature of the fields + a codeword only it know (its sha256 hashed)
00:55 < zylopfa> I am going to make the sha512 version only
00:55 < Mech4221> ok..gotta run to the office...bbl
00:55 < zylopfa> so my PayDriver has it as default, well only that
00:56 < zylopfa> cause its just a "password key" you have to put in the providers admin area
00:56 < zylopfa> and its so much more safe
00:56 < zylopfa> So I deny my users of the module to use the unsafe way
00:56 <+perlDreamer> that's not a problem
00:56 < zylopfa> Is it good or bad, or should i provide both methods?
00:57 < zylopfa> Its no extra effort on the user, its 1 extra field in the gw-system to fill in
00:57 <+perlDreamer> Is the communication with the gateway over SSL?
00:57 < zylopfa> no, the gw handle all the sensitive data on their site
00:57 < zylopfa> and they post back to me
00:57 < zylopfa> its in clear text
00:58 < zylopfa> the postback is status of the transaction and that sorts
00:58 <+perlDreamer> in that case, I would definitely use the more secure method
00:58 < zylopfa> yeah
00:58 <+perlDreamer> so that people can't probe your site by pushing data back at you.
00:58 < zylopfa> indeed
00:58 < zylopfa> They also highly reccomend the safe way
00:59 < zylopfa> dont know why they support the other way though as they are the clearing-house of payments for all banks in denmark
00:59 <@rizen> SnowWrite: there are basically only 5 things you need to know to do a skin for WebGUI
00:59 <+perlDreamer> Mech4221, I have only used Plone as a user, not as a programmer.
00:59 < zylopfa> but ofc its not their ass getting burnt if someone post back to my site
00:59 <@rizen> SnowWrite: two template variables <tmpl_var head.tags> (goes in the head block) and <tmpl_var body.content> (goes where you want the content to appear)
00:59 <+perlDreamer> but the user interface for WebGUI is way better
01:00 <+perlDreamer> summed up in this statement: 1-click file downloads
01:00 <@rizen> SnowWrite:  and 3 macros: ^AdminBar; (right after the body tag), ^AssetProxy(); and ^FileUrl(); to place images, snippets, and other assets in your style
01:04 < zylopfa> Thanks a lot for your help this day, i am nearly done with my Danish PayDriver cause of you all
01:04 < zylopfa> Take care untill next time
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01:20 < doc777> Hello friends. Anyone know if ^LastModified(,%y-%m-%dT%h:%n:%s+00:00);  is broken? For me it always returns the same date which I think is the date the template was created...
01:29 < Mech422> perlDreamer: the big 'problem' we have with Plone from the 'standard cms' side of stuff is the 'forced consistency'... Plone tries very hard to make sites totally consistent from a design standpoint.  That really doesn't work for anything except very large sites.  Most of our clients have 'exceptions' to their design - "We want all pages to have this banner, _except_ page foo - which should have some other banner"...
01:29 < Mech422> perlDreamer: so you end up having to 'fight the system' to do stuff
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01:30 < Mech422> perlDreamer: on the plus side - the 'portlets' system is very nice for setting up 'side-bars' on sites.
01:32 < Mech422> an interesting note: Plone is a 'page based' system, as opposed to an 'element based' system like webGui - there is a content type called 'collage' which allows a sort of element based page construction, and there seems to be some interest in making it part of the core.  So plone may move to a more element based setup in the future
01:37 < doc777> Is there a way to make ^LastModified(tmpl_var page.url); return the modified date of the page you pass it? I seem to be thinking it does something it does not ;-)
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01:51 <@Haarg> now with the macro as it exists now
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02:11 <@Haarg> err, not with the macro as it exists now
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02:12 <+perlDreamer> doc777, you had a leading comma in your original question above
02:12 <+perlDreamer> Mech422, you hit it on the head
02:12 <+perlDreamer> I'm limited by the system.
02:12 <+perlDreamer> and there doesn't seem to be a way to relax stuff
02:12 <+perlDreamer> like in wG
02:13 <+perlDreamer> you can choose what you put into the Rich Text Editor
02:13 <+perlDreamer> what you filter, and so on
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02:17 < Mech422> perlDreamer: there are ways around it - writing templates, etc - but honestly, if you need to fight with the system to accomplish the 'common case', why bother ?
02:18 < Mech422> perlDreamer: also, the system requirements and performance no longer justified by the feature set.  There are numerous frameworks/cms's now that provide a similiar level of functionality with faster performance and smaller footprint
02:36 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7904 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Auth/WebGUI.pm): fixed: anonymous registration with email confirmation is broken
02:36 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7905 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fixed #8790: email password recovery allows sending recovery mail to arbitrary address
02:36 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7906 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fixed: Submitting recurring events generates multiple version tags
02:36 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7907 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (lib/WebGUI/Session/Url.pm t/Session/Url.t): only escape dangerous characters
02:36 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7908 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.5.26 release
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03:16 < CIA-39> WebGUI: jt * r7909 /releases/WebGUI_7.5.26-stable: Release 7.5.26-stable
03:16 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7910 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (4 files in 4 dirs): preparing for 7.5.27 dev
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04:03 < Mech422> hehe... I seem to have annoyed wreconsole - it just told me to 'stop dicking around!'
04:22 <+Radix-wrk> heh
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15:43 < BartJol> khenn, you know when the next beta is due?
15:43 <@khenn> as in 7.7?
15:44 < BartJol> no 7.6.1
15:47 <@khenn> I would assume this week
15:47 <@khenn> but I don't know
15:47 <@khenn> ask Haarg
15:47 < BartJol> ok
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16:15 < SDuensin> FRIDAY!
16:26 < BartJol> beer!
16:30 < SDuensin> YES!
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16:33 < BartJol> and caps lock key remove day maybe...
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17:04 < miloidrr> Hi I've seen the Bazzar in Plain Black, there is news organized in diffrent categories: Most Downloaded, Highly Rated, Most Visited. Someone knows how can i do to sort the post of a CS like this
17:05 <+MrHairgrease> miloidrr: you can't
17:05 <+MrHairgrease> tha bazaar is not a CS
17:05 <+MrHairgrease> it's an seperate asset
17:06 <@rizenisaway> miloidrr: me thinks you want the story manager: http://www.webgui.org/webgui/roadmap
17:07 < zylopfa> wtf i got a segmentation fault upon starting apache :O never seen that before. Worked second restart though
17:07 <@rizenisaway> why are you breaking apache into pieces zylopfa
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17:08 < zylopfa> hah its my PayDriver
17:08 < zylopfa> I am making it into recurring payment now
17:08 < zylopfa> Think apache just got stressed
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17:08 < zylopfa> My payment gateway dont handle anything recurring, only a flag you set in the payment form
17:09 < zylopfa> and then you must take care of the rest in your own code
17:09 < miloidrr> Rizenisaway, do you speak spanish?
17:13 <+MrHairgrease> rizen: I had to extend the Subscription sku so that it can also be used for non-recurring one time groups subscriptions
17:14 <+MrHairgrease> is that something you'd like built into the real subscription?
17:15 <+MrHairgrease> this is the code: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m320b9e9
17:16 <@preaction> anyone remember the form control that did syntax highlighting? is that somewhere in the bazaar (i can't seem to find it)
17:16 <@preaction> like CSS or HTML or JavaScript syntax highlighting
17:16 <+MrHairgrease> do we have that?
17:16 <@preaction> i thought someone was working on it, or had worked on it
17:16 <+MrHairgrease> that's pretty cool...
17:16 <@preaction> maybe it's in an RFE
17:17 <@rizen> MrHairgrease...that's cool. sure put it in 7.6.
17:18 <+MrHairgrease> ok
17:18 <+MrHairgrease> will do when I have the time
17:18 <@rizen> preaction, i don't think there ever was such a beast
17:18 <+MrHairgrease> prolly next week
17:18 <@preaction> must've been my pipe dream... or someone else's
17:18 <@rizen> we have a module in the wre HTML-Highlight
17:18 <+MrHairgrease> developer.yahoo.com uses some highlighter
17:18 <@rizen> but that's to highlight parts of html documents
17:19 <@rizen> like search terms
17:19 <+MrHairgrease> yes
17:19 <@preaction> there's a JS thing that will do syntax highlighting, so I could probably add that to the snippet
17:19 <+MrHairgrease> you could use the Kate highlighter engine
17:19 <+MrHairgrease> yeah that js thing is what yahoo uses too
17:19 <@preaction> but it's probably quite large
17:23 <+MrHairgrease> rizen: just curious, what are your hobbies and are you looking for in a love interest?
17:24 < BartJol> me thinks he mainly likes collecting pink elephants
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17:28 <@rizen> my interests are stuffed animals, chocolate, and long walks on the beach
17:29 <@rizen> in a lover i'm looking for a stark raving mad lunatic who has sex like it's the last time she'll ever have sex, but every time
17:29 <+MrHairgrease> maybe you should make a video about that.
17:29 <@rizen> hehe
17:29 <+MrHairgrease> not too explicit please
17:29 <+MrHairgrease> I can handle only so much 
17:29 <+MrHairgrease> you know me
17:30 < BartJol> and don't put anything about eggs in it
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17:31 <+MrHairgrease> DON't
17:31 <+MrHairgrease> MENTION
17:31 <+MrHairgrease> THE EGGS!
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18:14 < elnino> good morning eveyone - boy there are a lot of you here today!
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18:14 < elnino> Was wondering if there is a way to have the rss feeds handle images that are put into the cs system (via description) not attachment. 
18:22 <@Haarg> what do you mean by handle?
18:23 <@Haarg> iirc you can switch the rss to include the post content instead of the synopsis
18:24 <@Haarg> which would have it include the full html in the feed
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18:31 < topsub> If i have a collab obj i am able to call "setCollateral"  corrrect? i need to set the userDefined5 to 1?
18:35 <@preaction> topsub, that's not collateral, that's an asset property
18:36 <@Haarg> setCollateral is for when you have an additional table with multiple values
18:36 < topsub> ah, so i need to call update then?
18:36 <@Haarg> multiple rows of values rather
18:36 <@Haarg> update or add
18:36 <@Haarg> addRevision
18:36 < topsub> ah. i see now. thanks
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18:52 < BartJol> Haarg, when is 7.6.1 due?
18:52 <@Haarg> tuesday
18:52 < BartJol> thanks
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19:18 < elnino> Haarg: sorry, I steped away. "handel" images, meaning that I should see the images when viewing the rssfeed thru my reader. but when you look at the xml, it doesn't appear to be there.
19:19 < elnino> you mentioned that you can switch the rss to include the post content instead...
19:19 <@Haarg> then what i said about changing the template should work
19:19 < elnino> maybe that is what it is? I didn't modify the template.. Sothe variable is description instead of synopsis?
19:20 <@Haarg> i don't remember what it is actaull
19:20 <@Haarg> y
19:20 <@Haarg> it may be description, or it could be content
19:20 < zylopfa> Damn the internationalize process takes long if you dont do it from the start as you code
19:20 < elnino> ok. I'lll give it a try! Thanks!  Never would have thought of that..
19:25 <+perlDreamer> zylopfa, I should teach you about $i18n->echo
19:27 < zylopfa> :O gonna manual that
19:29 < elnino> what is the template "default uss" for? (a cs template)
19:33 <+perlDreamer> CS used to be called USS
19:33 <+perlDreamer> User Submission System
19:34 <+perlDreamer> zylopfa, in general with $i18n->echo
19:34 <+perlDreamer> it lets you quickly prototype your work
19:34 < elnino> haarg - the "default rss" feed already outputs the description. so it appears that the images are stripped, as opposed to using the <image> element. =(
19:34 < zylopfa> i am all ears perlDreamer 
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19:34 <+perlDreamer> then you run a script on the module
19:34 < elnino> thanks perlDreamer.
19:34 <+perlDreamer> and it changes ->echo to ->get and builds the i18n file for you :)
19:34 <@Haarg> elnino, i think description is the wrong variable then
19:35 < elnino> description is content for other templates.
19:35 < elnino> well, at least for article assests.
19:35 < elnino> I don't know about others.
19:35 <@Haarg> posts don't actually have a description field though
19:35 < elnino> oh.
19:35 < zylopfa> perlDreamer, thats insane
19:35 <@Haarg> they have 'content' instead
19:35 < zylopfa> like i have now: $i18n->get('signaturekey label')
19:36 < zylopfa> so i write: $i18n->echo();
19:36 < zylopfa> or so i write echo("the text for this element")
19:36 < zylopfa> or ("name of this element") ?
19:36 <@Haarg> content might not be exposed in the template though
19:37 <+perlDreamer> you write $i18n->echo("the text for this element");
19:37 <+perlDreamer> echo will echo it back
19:37 < elnino> I cahnged the variable to content instead of description.  nothing displayed on the rssfeed at all.
19:37 < zylopfa> perlDreamer, thats sick good
19:38 <+perlDreamer> zylopfa, yup
19:38 <+perlDreamer> No one likes writing i18n files
19:38 < zylopfa> true words
19:38 <+perlDreamer> they like writing Help files even less
19:38 <+perlDreamer> but I haven't found a way to make it easier yet
19:38 < zylopfa> haah yeah!
19:39 < zylopfa> there are so many "labels" and "hover helps" in my payment driver
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19:45 < topsub> i have my collab obj and thought i can just do update and update the column but i am missing something.. my like test if failing because the column doesn't seem to be updating.. any ideas? http://webgui.pastebin.com/m9a6f528
19:47 < elnino> is the rss feeds supposed to be rss 2.0 compliant/
19:47 <@Haarg> i think so
19:48 < elnino> Ah! I found an rfe hidden down below. This was reported last year....
19:49 < elnino> http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/syndicated-content-asset-make-images-in-the-downloaded-rss-feeds-available-in-the-template
19:50 < elnino> doh! can I have my karma back? =( somebody sponsered it with money I guess.
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20:11 <+perlDreamer> In the Folder, there are two template variables isFile and isImage
20:12 < zylopfa> perlDreamer, do you think it would be interesting to write some help about autogenerating pages / content ?
20:12 <+perlDreamer> Are images supposed to be files and images, or should they be exclusive?
20:12 <+perlDreamer> zylopfa, in the wiki? sure!
20:12 < zylopfa> I am thinking about writing something about it
20:12 < zylopfa> as i am working on it myself
20:13 <+perlDreamer> Last year, at the WUC, I gave a presentation on many of the bugs I found in WebGUI
20:14 < zylopfa> have you found many?
20:14 <+perlDreamer> oh yeah
20:14 <+perlDreamer> tons
20:14 <+perlDreamer> just look at last year's changelog
20:14 < zylopfa> Its awesome you find them
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20:24 < zylopfa> perlDreamer, Layouts can be children of layouts?
20:24 < zylopfa> and Layouts can have children which are assets?
20:24 < zylopfa> i mean wobjects
20:25 <+perlDreamer> yes
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20:25 <@Haarg> with some small exceptions, any asset can be a child of any other asset
20:25 < zylopfa> Thanks a lot
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20:29 <@Haarg> elnino: i don't think that rfe applies to what you are talking about
20:29 <@Haarg> that is about handling images when reading feeds with the syndicated content asset
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20:29 <@Haarg> you are wanting to serve the feeds properly from the cs
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20:35 < elnino_laptop> Haarg - yes. and yes.
20:35 < elnino_laptop> kinda
20:35 < elnino_laptop> it's all related.
20:35 < elnino_laptop> THe xml that you are producingn from the cs is stripping out any and all images from the content.
20:35 < elnino_laptop> therefore, the syndicated content asset isn't displaying images. =)
20:36 < elnino_laptop> And, well, I also trying to use your sydicated content asset to read other feeds that do have images, and they don't appear.
20:36 < elnino_laptop> at least that is what I'm finding.
20:36 < elnino_laptop> this explains how the xml handles images: http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/rss/rss.html#ltimagegtSubelementOfLtchannelgt
20:37 < zylopfa> haah this is sick!
20:37 < zylopfa> I just auto created a folder
20:37 < zylopfa> It might not seem like much but its a step on the way of creating automatic content
20:39 < zylopfa> Its sick insane you can create all the things in code, by looking at the definition in the code and then backtracking into its parents to see more parameters
20:40 < zylopfa> I am definately making a wiki explaining auto generation of content
20:41 < zylopfa> Damn webgui is build insane ordered
20:42 <@preaction> so i've got this code syntax highlighter thing i downloaded and integrated into WebGUI's codearea (called CodeMirror)
20:42 <@preaction> it seems to work automagically, but it screws with the tab key
20:42 <@preaction> i'll make a package with a patch so someone can try it if they want
20:42 < zylopfa> auch, is it a js thing?
20:42 < zylopfa> yeah it must be
20:42 <@preaction> yes, it has to be
20:43 <@preaction> it's progressive-enhancement, so it works w/o js, but the rest of the admin console doesn't anyway
20:43 < zylopfa> Is it in all browsers it mess up?
20:43 <@preaction> well, the Tab key is all messed up in Textareas anyway
20:43 <@preaction> we use JS to fix it for our codearea
20:43 <@preaction> but i had to remove that to make this work
20:43 < zylopfa> ahh I see
20:43 <@preaction> i could look into editing CodeMirror a bit (it's BSD licensed) to make tab work as expected
20:44 < zylopfa> sounds insane good, is it a Form object?
20:44 <+perlDreamer> but then we'll have to get it accepted upstream, or maintain the patches forever
20:44 <@preaction> right
20:44 < zylopfa> so you can use it in definitions like all other types like  YesNOT
20:44 < zylopfa> No
20:44 < zylopfa> and Text and SelectBox
20:44 <@preaction> zylopfa, yes, it's the WebGUI::Form::Codearea
20:44 < zylopfa> Sick, cant it be accepted into the tree?
20:45 <@preaction> that's up to the powers that be of course
20:45 < zylopfa> yeah ofcourse
20:46 < Mech422> Umm - does anyone know where log.conf is supposed to _go_ ??  /data/wre/etc or something ?
20:46 <@preaction> data/WebGUI/etc
20:46 < zylopfa> yeah thats right
20:47 < Mech422> Danke :-)
20:48 < Mech422> I have annoyed Gooey - if I click on my asset, it just goes back to the site 'home' page - not the 'display' tab of the add item stuff.  But there is no error in the log files, so I need to crank up the verbosity
20:49 < zylopfa> ahh
20:49 < zylopfa> I had that a lot also when making my payment driver
20:50 < zylopfa> but always some in WARN or ERROR in the log
20:50 < zylopfa> you look in /var/log/webgui right?
20:50 < Mech422> zylopfa: I think I just borked the template or something... Umm - lemme double check..
20:52 < Mech422> zylopfa: yeah - basically all my logs seem to be in /data/wre
20:52 < Mech422> (err - /data/wre/var/log)
20:53 <@preaction> http://www.webgui.org/bazaar/codemirror-codearea-syntax-highlighting-and-auto-indent <- anyone feel like trying that out for me?
20:53 < zylopfa> sweet preaction I will dl it now
20:58 < zylopfa> preaction, what do i do wrong?
20:59 <@preaction> hm?
20:59 < zylopfa> its just waiting for input when i do the patch thing
20:59 <@preaction> oh, hell
20:59 <@preaction> patch -p0 < patches/thepatchfile.patch
20:59 < zylopfa> I am not so good at patching
20:59 < zylopfa> ahhh thanks
20:59 <@preaction> yeah, my bad
21:00 < zylopfa> Its not very intrusive the patch
21:00 <@preaction> no, it's not
21:00 <@preaction> it's mostly the CodeMirror library
21:03 <@preaction> so if you use the Snippet or Template asset, it should work
21:03 <@preaction> though i haven't tried it on existing snippets or templates
21:03 < zylopfa> preaction, isn't is supposed to show up in the DataForm asset?
21:04 < zylopfa> when you create form fields?
21:04 <@preaction> Codearea? i dunno, maybe not
21:04 < zylopfa> hmm
21:04 < zylopfa> how can i test it then? In a homemade asset/wobject?
21:05 <@preaction> make a Snippet
21:05 <@preaction> or a Template
21:05 <@preaction> the codearea is being used in those
21:08 < zylopfa> preaction, I dont understand it
21:08 <@preaction> is it being colored?
21:08 < zylopfa> Isn't it supposed to be used like a Form field for using like the other types like Email, YesNo etc.
21:08 <@preaction> it's just for HTML, CSS, and JS right now
21:09 <@preaction> it is a form field, yes, it's WebGUI::Form::Codearea. it's a default webgui one, i just changed it to do this syntax highlighting stuff
21:09 < zylopfa> I can see it changes something when i write
21:09 <@preaction> so if you use WebGUI::Form::Codearea anywhere, it'll do that syntaxing stuff
21:10 <@preaction> so if you make an asset property of "fieldType => "codearea"", it will use that WebGUI::Form::Codearea
21:10 < zylopfa> There is no highlighting atm though
21:11 <@preaction> hmm... is this a web-facing thing i could look at to see?
21:11 < zylopfa> preaction, its imba this
21:11 < zylopfa> I made a test asset
21:11 < zylopfa> and made a fieldtype=>codearea
21:11 < zylopfa> I can see it gets formatted as <pre> but no highlighting
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21:11 < zylopfa> second
21:12 <@preaction> are you doing HTML, CSS, or JS?
21:12 -!- apeiron_ is now known as apeiron
21:12 < zylopfa> Not much preaction 
21:12 <@preaction> ok, looks like it only works right now if it's mixed, so it's HTML <html><style>function thisIsJS() { }</style>
21:13 < zylopfa> ahh
21:13 <@preaction> the CodeMirror highlighter thing only does HTML, CSS, and JS
21:13 <@preaction> so i'll have to add a select box thing...
21:13 < Mech422> ahh - it looks like its a problem with i18n...  I tried commenting out the i18n stuff from the asset _skeleton to make it match the tutorial 
21:14 < Mech422> but www_edit has a call to International in the render
21:14 <@preaction> you don't need that www_edit method at all, the default is just fine
21:15 < zylopfa> pre it work with codehilight
21:15 < zylopfa> if i use html
21:16 <@preaction> yeah, i'll be adding a select box to select "Mixed" "CSS" "JS" and "HTML"
21:16 < zylopfa> imba
21:16 <@preaction> templates should be mixed, period. but snippets can be all of the above
21:16 < zylopfa> yeah
21:16 < zylopfa> How do you make it show for templates and the field in snippets?
21:17 < zylopfa> Do you override something?
21:17 < Mech422> preaction: it is ? Hmm - according to the log, its failing in WebGUI::International with "Can't locate object method "session" via package "edit asset" "
21:17 <+perlDreamer> Mech422: paste the code into webgui.pastebin.com
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21:19 < Mech422> perlDreamer: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m823dbcb
21:19 < elnino_laptop> Haarg. Huh. description is the synopsis in the cs default rss feed template. I get it now. Thanks!
21:19 <@Haarg> yeah
21:20 <+perlDreamer> Mech422: where did you get the tutorial/skeleton for that?
21:20 <@Haarg> it would be pretty simple to also include the full content in a template variable
21:20 <+perlDreamer> is it online, or from some book?
21:20 < Mech422> perlDreamer: _Asset.skeleton or somesuch
21:20 <@preaction> that's probably the _newasset.skeleton. it's... changed... a lot
21:20 <@Haarg> so if you added an rfe for that it would be really easy to do
21:20 < Mech422> perlDreamer: no - from my WRE
21:20 <+perlDreamer> Please file a bug on that, because it's badly out of date
21:21 <+perlDreamer> you can safely delete www_edit, like preaction said
21:22 < Mech422> perldreamer: file a bug stating " the _Asset.skeleton file included with the wre is out of date" ?
21:23 <+perlDreamer> it's not in the WRE, it's in core WebGUI
21:23 <+perlDreamer> grrrr
21:23 <+perlDreamer> Yes, please file a bug on it
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21:25 < Mech422> Yeah - sorry, I just got the path now - I'll file the bug
21:27 < Mech422> ok - filed
21:27 <+perlDreamer> Mech422, can you read SVN patches?
21:27 < Mech422> perlDreamer: Umm - I think the VM has svn on it...
21:28 < Mech422> perlDreamer: I could install it if its not
21:28 < Mech422> (I tend to like mercurial myself :-) )
21:28 <+perlDreamer> when I patch this, I'll send you the URL for the patch so you can see what kind of changes need to be made
21:28 <+perlDreamer> you don't need to have SVN installed
21:29 < Mech422> oh thanks :-)
21:31 < elnino_laptop> haarg - so does xml support full html formating? - if so , then I 'll file for the full content, but if it doesn't, it woulnd't make sense to do so, would it?
21:31 <@Haarg> you can encode html to put it into an rss feed
21:32 < elnino_laptop> ok.   It was just confusing, because the "description" template variable is usually the full content, and the synopsis is ususally the summary. in otherwords, the variables for the rss template don't match what is used in cs templates.
21:32 <+perlDreamer> rizen: there are no more procedural calls in WebGUI::International, right?
21:33 < zylopfa> Sirs, is the asset id the same as the template id when you make your own templates?
21:33 <+perlDreamer> zylopfa, no
21:33 <+perlDreamer> all ids should be unique in the db
21:33 < zylopfa> ok that
21:40 <@rizen> procedural calls?
21:40 <@rizen> you mean WebGUI::International::get()?
21:40 <+perlDreamer> yes
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21:40 <@rizen> not that i'm aware of, but that doesn't mean you can change it
21:40 <@rizen> API freeze remember,
21:41 <+perlDreamer> What I saw was old, bad code in the Asset skeleton, saying to do WebGUI::International::get
21:41 <+perlDreamer> which hasn't been that way for a really long time
21:41 <@rizen> ah
21:41 <@rizen> well skeletons you can change
21:42 <@Haarg> get can't be called procedurally
21:43 < zylopfa> This is sick right here! I am auto creating pages now
21:43 < zylopfa> with my magic coding
21:44 < zylopfa> perlDreamer, the asset id of a template IS the same as the template id it has
21:46 <@preaction> zylopfa, perlDreamer, yes. "templateId" is the asset id of the template
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21:46 < zylopfa> yeah
21:47 < zylopfa> I just looked in the html when you select a template and saw it was the asset id it picked
21:50 < elnino_laptop> zylopfa - that is because a template *IS* an asset and every asset has a assetid.
21:50 < elnino_laptop> right preaction?
21:50 < zylopfa> yeah sounds right
21:51 < elnino_laptop> it's just a special type of asset that doesn't display on a pagelayout etc.
21:51 <@rizen> perlDreamer: i'm wrong
21:52 <@rizen> apparently that hasn't been available since 6.8
21:52 < zylopfa> rizen, we need documentation to create pages from code
21:52 < zylopfa> and i am making that
21:53 <@rizen> we do?
21:53 < zylopfa> Its good if you want user areas, where each user has its own set of assets layed out
21:53 <@rizen> my $child = $somepage->addChild($propertiesForChild);
21:53 < zylopfa> so you make a Workflow when a user is created, that make his site
21:53 < zylopfa> yeah rizen but its not explained what you can do with it
21:54 < zylopfa> and how you find out what properties, if you are a noob like me 
21:54 <@rizen> i guess i'll have to read the wiki page you write. perhaps i can't see what you're talking about cuz i'm too close to it.
21:54 < zylopfa> yeah i guess
21:55 < zylopfa> Normally you create pages from within webgui, but its nice to know that you can create them in code also
21:56 < zylopfa> for example you can create a subtree /testwebgui/testnumerxxx  where users can test webgui with a premade site structure
21:56 < zylopfa> just like you have on your site
21:56 <@rizen> normally "you" create pages from within webgui. i only create them from code. =)
21:56 < Mech422> zylopfa: we called that 'populating' in Plone - you can automagically populate a folder (eg the users 'home' folder) when a user is created
21:56 < zylopfa> you are crazy
21:57 < zylopfa> is it true rizen ?
21:57 <@rizen> no
21:57 < zylopfa> haha <3
21:57 <@Haarg> yes, he is crazy
21:57 <@rizen> although i did create the code that creates pages that you use through the user interface, so i guess in a way it's true. =)
21:57 < zylopfa> but you can see the idea of creating them automagically right+0
21:58 <@rizen> zylopfa: absolutely. if i couldn't,t hen i wouldn't have created the API you're using.
21:58 < zylopfa> the api is sick good i must say
21:58 < elnino_laptop> zylopfa - are you creating user home pages when a user registers?
21:58 < zylopfa> yeah elnino_laptop 
21:58 < elnino_laptop> so were you wguest3-something yesterday?
21:58 < zylopfa> with articles in it and other wobjects they can use
21:59 < elnino_laptop> was that you? or was that someone else wanting to do the same thing?
21:59 < zylopfa> it was me
21:59 < zylopfa> and i am making a wiki about it
21:59 < elnino_laptop> ah!  That is so cool!  are you going to put it in the bazzar?
21:59 <@rizen> perlDreamer: wait until zylopfa understands how easy it is to just duplicate an existing branch rather than creating them all from scratch. that will blow his freakin mind. =)
21:59 < zylopfa> haha rizen !
21:59 < elnino_laptop> basically, you're doing a workflow, right?
21:59 < zylopfa> I was thingking about that
22:00 < zylopfa> yeah elnino_laptop 
22:00 < zylopfa> but right now i am making utility script, to test that i get it right
22:00 < zylopfa> so i dontr have to restart all the time
22:02 < elnino_laptop> cool.  you got me thinking about doin gthe same thing yesterday - I don't really have a need to do it, but it would be way cool for an intranet. I look forward to seeing what you came up with.
22:02 < Mech422> zylopfa: if you 'copy' (duplicate) a specific, known folder (or branch ?) to the users home dir - the site admins can populate the 'template' folder with whatever content they want users to have... that would be really configurable/reusable :-)
22:02 < zylopfa> yeah Mech422 the more i think about it, the more it makes sense
22:03 < Mech422> zylopfa: it would be a really nice general purpose thing to have :-D
22:03 < zylopfa> I am looking at the asset.pm now 
22:03 < elnino_laptop> and you'd have to create a new group and set the new page to that new group so that only that person can modify that page and the stuff below it.
22:03 < zylopfa> yeah elnino_laptop 
22:03 < zylopfa> Will be a helluva lot of groups :O
22:04 <@rizen> you don't need to do that
22:04 < Mech422> btw - do 'logged in' users bog down webGUI any ?? we had issues with Plone where the extra personalization and security checks done to logged in users killed performance ?
22:04 <@rizen> just make them the owner of the group
22:04 <@rizen> i mean of the asset
22:04 < zylopfa> ahah sick rizen 
22:04 <@rizen> and then they can edit to their heart's content
22:05 < zylopfa> this is so awesome
22:05 < zylopfa> The more i work with webgui and get tips from you  the more insane good i find it
22:05 <@rizen> Mech422: do you mean logged in, but not active on the site?
22:05 <@rizen> Mech422: as in, their session is still alive, but they are no longer browsing?
22:05 < Mech422> rizen: no - simultaneous, non-anoymous users  - that killed cacheablity due to personalization for instance....
22:06 < Mech422> rizen: no - still browsing
22:06 <@rizen> Mech422: let's say a static apache page is a 1 and a visitor in WebGUI due to caching is a 2
22:06 <@rizen> a logged in user is then a 3 according to that scale
22:06 <@rizen> however, a logged in user in admin mode is a 10
22:07 <@rizen> admin mode is a killer
22:07 < Mech422> Hmm - interesting
22:07 < elnino_laptop> rizen - I thought ownsers could only be groups?
22:07 <@rizen> logged in users aren't too bad, though they are much worse than a visitor
22:07 <@rizen> elnino_laptop: there are three privs on every asset: owner user, group to view, and group to edit
22:07 < zylopfa> elnino_laptop, some one own the asset also
22:07 < zylopfa> default is the one that made it i think
22:08 < zylopfa> you can set that i guess with $myasset->setowner or so
22:08 < zylopfa> havent looked up the right function
22:08 < Mech422> rizen: pylons (and I think rails?) has an interesting concept of a 'html include' - basically, you can handle personalization by sending just a plain 'anonymous' page (and caching it)... then 'including' a small personalization file
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22:08 <@rizen> Mech422: so to get back to your question, no logged in users won't kill your server, but certainly some things can't be cached that they can see
22:09 < elnino_laptop> looky there!! I thought owners had a drop list of group names. my bad. 
22:09 < Mech422> rizen: seemed like an interesting comprimise - helps with caching, but not with security checks
22:09 <@rizen> Mech422: adding something like that would require a rewrite of webgui
22:09 < Mech422> rizen: it sounds like a much less severe problem then it is in Plone - on your scale, logged in users would probably be like a '5' or '7'
22:09 <@rizen> Mech422: plus, it's not needed
22:10 <+perlDreamer> Could someone please assign bug 8807 to me?
22:10 <+perlDreamer> I have it almost done
22:10 < Mech422> rizen: oh - I wasn't suggesting it ... I just found it an interesting 'hack' to improve cachability :-)
22:10 <@rizen> perlDreamer: why can't you do it yourself? you are in the group
22:10 <@rizen> perlDreamer: don't you see the edit icon next to assigned to?
22:11 < zylopfa>  $myasset->set({ownerUserId=>"$uid"}); sets the user owner i believe
22:11 <+perlDreamer> when I hit edit, I only get a pulldown for ticket status
22:11 <+perlDreamer> No way to assign
22:11 <@rizen> Mech422: agreed. we continue to look for things like that too.
22:11 <@rizen> perlDreamer: i'm going to "become" you so i can see this problem first hand
22:12 <+perlDreamer> I'm using FF 2.0.0.11
22:12 <@bopbop> oops, I just assigned him
22:12 <@bopbop> wasn't reading this...
22:13 < Mech422> rizen: I discusses a similiar approach with one of the devs - do the personalization _all_ in javascript (say using css id's to know what to replace) - then serve your 'anonymous' file to everyone, and logged in users got a small snippet of js with they're username, date, time etc - the let the client merge it together...
22:14 < Mech422> rizen: and I can't type for crap today, so I'm gonna shut up now :-)
22:14 <@rizen> perlDreamer: it appears that this is a bug of the new system
22:14 <@rizen> perlDreamer: because you have edit rights to everything else, just not the assigned to field
22:15 < Mech422> zylopfa: I'd love to see your wiki page when you finish it - I can imagine needing to do similar stuff in the future :-)
22:15 <@rizen> i'm submitting a bug report for you
22:15 <+perlDreamer> thanks, dude
22:15 <+perlDreamer> I owe you one
22:15 < zylopfa> sounds awesome Mech422 
22:16 -!- wgGuest08 [n=wgGuest0@201.222.115.14] has joined #webgui
22:17 < wgGuest08> hello
22:17 <+perlDreamer> hello, wgGuest08
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22:17 <@rizen> Mech422: that would never work for us either. you might notice that we don't use a lot of javascript in the public facing interfaces. that's because we have a lot of government users that have limitations on javascript use
22:19 < Mech422> rizen: yeah - but it was a slick idea :-)  He actually wanted to do it client side with xml/xslt (?)  but that just seemed waay overkill :-)
22:19 < Mech422> rizen: that was my 1 good idea, so I try to get a lot milage out of it :-P
22:20 < zylopfa> I found the duplicateBranch() function now like rizen said
22:21 < CIA-39> WebGUI: yung * r7911 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Added Thingy RFEs: Max entries per user AND Export extra fields
22:21 < CIA-39> WebGUI: yung * r7912 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fixed: #4174: UserList template show links that should be hidden
22:21 < CIA-39> WebGUI: jt * r7913 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): enable/disable pagination in asset manager (#756)
22:21 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7914 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Folder.pm): 8802 fix Folder template variable problem
22:21 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7915 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Folder.pm docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt): backport folder template variable fix #8802
22:21 < CIA-39> WebGUI: graham * r7916 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/ (changelog/7.x.x.txt upgrades/upgrade_7.5.26-7.5.27.pl): fixed: EMSBadge doesn't have a template field
22:32 < zylopfa> Mech422, I am making a portal thing now, so when users are created a branch is made, containing "Calendar", "Webshop", "Weather at user", "Forum" etc.
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22:46 <@preaction> are you using the Dashboard for it? that'd be great to see
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22:48 < zylopfa> preaction,  I am just making a site in a branch /templates/usersite
22:48 < zylopfa> and then copying the branch in code
22:48 < zylopfa> and changing different things via code also
22:49 < zylopfa> preaction, can you tell me what function to use, if i have a url /memberarea and i want it to return the object that this url is 
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22:59 < Mech422> zylopfa: that sounds pretty slick :-)
22:59 < zylopfa> yeah i am making good speed atm
23:00 < Mech422> zylopfa: I'm still fighting my stupid Asset skeleton I thik
23:00 < Mech422> s/thik/think/
23:00 < zylopfa> Damn it :(
23:00 < zylopfa> I am making an utility script atm to test this out
23:05 <@rizen> Mech422: what are you writing?
23:05 < Mech422> rizen: just a 'toy' asset...
23:06 < Mech422> rizen: It'll eventually just use js or an img tag to display an OpenAds/OpenX ad on the page
23:06 < Mech422> rizen: so just 1 field, no processing, and a very simple template
23:07 <@rizen> is it just cuz you want to write an asset? sounds like something you could do with a macro, which would be much simpler to write.
23:07 < Mech422> yeah - I sorta need to get a feel for how easy / how long asset development takes - so I figured this was about the most trivial thing I could think of
23:08 < Mech422> right now, I'm trying to figure out "Can't locate object method "getFileUrl" via package "WebGUI::Asset::OpenX""
23:10 <@rizen> getFileUrl is not a method from Asset
23:10 <@rizen> where are you getting that from?
23:11 <@rizen> There is a method called that in File.pm
23:11 <@rizen> oh...and i now see that it's in the skeleton too
23:11 <@rizen> that's not right
23:11 < Mech422> yeah - thats where I got it :-)
23:12 < Mech422> basically, I just have the skeleton with 1 extra field defined, and a template defined
23:12 < Mech422> everything else is 'stock' at this point
23:12 <@preaction> zylopfa, WebGUI::Asset->newByUrl( $session, $url );
23:13 < zylopfa> yeah i got it thanks a lot ;D
23:13 < zylopfa> Helps to use perldoc
23:13 <@preaction> indeed
23:14 <@rizen> Mech422: https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/diff/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/_NewAsset.skeleton?rev1=7916;rev2=7917
23:15 <@rizen> looks like i need to spend some time reviewing the skeleton files...they appear not to be up to snuff
23:17 <@rizen> Mech422: have you seen this: http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/wobject-development-tutorial
23:33 < CIA-39> WebGUI: jt * r7917 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/_NewAsset.skeleton: removed extraneous bs
23:37 <@preaction> if i had a button that saves an asset and then returns the user to the edit screen, what should it be labelled?
23:37 <@preaction> "Save and Edit" is what i have right now
23:38 <@preaction> (the button is like the Save and Commit button, it shows up in the normal asset edit form)
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23:43 < zylopfa> or "Update"?
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23:52 <@preaction> ha!
23:52 <@preaction> yes, Update
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23:54 < zylopfa> preaction, if you set an owner of an asset, will the owner be the same if you create children of it
23:55 < zylopfa> or do you have to explicitly set the owner on children
23:55 <@preaction> no. Owner is the person creating the asset
23:55 < zylopfa> yeah i know
23:55 < zylopfa> but i am programming
23:55 <@preaction> you would have to do an Edit Branch
23:55 < zylopfa> are you sure?
23:55 < zylopfa> In my utility script i am woeking as admin
23:55 <@preaction> yep, that'd be the only way
23:55 <@preaction> oh
23:55 < zylopfa> and i make a user dir /members/$username
23:55 <@preaction> yeah, you'd have to explicitly set the ownerUserId (well, try it and see)
23:56 < zylopfa> and then i set it to be owned by the userid of the user
23:56 < zylopfa> yeah i will
23:57 < zylopfa> btw preaction , if i delete a folder in webgui asset interface, will the descendants be deleted also, or will they float around as orphans?
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23:57 < zylopfa> I think they will be deleted but the trashcan only show the top most directory
23:58 <@rizen> preaction: "apply"
23:58 < zylopfa> rizen, can you answer me that?
--- Day changed Sat Oct 11 2008
00:00 <@rizen> they will be deleted
00:00 <@preaction> rizen, would you want that to be enabled in the config? or should it just be up there? and can i commit this to 7.6 and get rid of the RFE for this?
00:00 < zylopfa> thanks a lot rizen 
00:01 < Mech422> rizen: oh cool - lemme grab the new skeleton (sorry - I was in a meeting...)
00:01 <@rizen> preaction, yes you can commit it to 7.6...how did you implement it btw...there's a super easy way and a hard way
00:01 <@preaction> i did it the super easy way
00:01 <@preaction> i'll pastebin the patch
00:02 <@preaction> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m73970b17 <- the easy way
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00:10 < Mech422> rizen: I think the www_edit method is supposed to be removed too ?
00:10 < Mech422> rizen: yes, that looks like the tutorial I'm following
00:13 <@rizen> preaction: i was thinking of a way even easier than that, but that's pretty easy
00:13 <@preaction> and should that be on by default? should i even make it a configurable thing?
00:14 <@rizen> Mech422: in most cases you won't need a www_edit method, but it should be in the skeleton just to show you how
00:14 <@rizen> preaction: always on
00:14 <@preaction> sounds good
00:15 < Mech422> rizen: ahh...
00:15 < zylopfa> is there a way to set owner of asset in code?
00:15 < zylopfa> (there is i know, but how?)
00:16 <@rizen> zylopfa: $self->update({ownerUserId=>$userId});
00:16 < zylopfa> sweett
00:16 < zylopfa> rizen,  i am making awesome programming for member area creation
00:17 < Mech422> rizen: Cool - that 'fixed' it :-)  Now to actually write some code
00:18 < Mech422> btw - for anyone interested...
00:18 < Mech422> I'm going to recommend webGUI for this project, so we'll probably end up going with it
00:18 < zylopfa> sounds awesome Mech422 
00:18 < Mech422> unfortunately, the decision was not as easy as the featureset should have made it...
00:18 < zylopfa> Good to hear it indeed
00:19 < zylopfa> what did they wanna use else?
00:19 < Mech422> without the support/guidance provided here on channel, I would have had to pass webgui up
00:19 < zylopfa> I am always willing to help even though i am semi new to programming with it
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00:20 < Mech422> zylopfa: Umm - well - we had a 'short list' of 2 cms/2 frameworks to look at 'in depth' - including modx, webgui, plyons, and either cakephp or code igniter
00:20 < zylopfa> ahh nice :D
00:21 < Mech422> zylopfa: we actually tossed out typo3 because we were worried about documentation, learning curve, etc
00:21 < zylopfa> I am happy you suggested webgui
00:21 < zylopfa> The good thing with webgui imo, is that its a complete framework and api
00:22 < Mech422> but we really should update/create a wiki page for people to compare/contrast webgui with other cms/frameworks
00:22 < zylopfa> It takes some time to know the api though, but still when you get to know it its very easy to prototype things
00:22 < zylopfa> yeah good idea Mech422 
00:22 <+perlDreame1> Mech422, see cmsmatrix.com
00:22 < Mech422> perlDreame1: yeah - thats plain blacks biggest asset in this regard...
00:23 < Mech422> it seems to be the only 'blow by blow, feature by feature' type comparison they have
00:23 < Mech422> anyway, if anyone is interested in what would have made the comparison easy / more insightful for me, I'd be glad to help
00:24 < Mech422> s/easy/easier/  - dam I can't type today
00:25 < zylopfa> Kerberos Authentication isn't that apache that handle that?
00:27 < zylopfa> doesn't webgui have PointOfSale capability?
00:28 < zylopfa> i mean the "Cash" PaymentDriver is just for that
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00:40 <@rizen> Mech422 i'd love to hear what would have made it easier...obviously that video that you have an RFE for is one thing
00:40 <@rizen> what else?
00:46 < CIA-39> WebGUI: doug * r7918 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): added RFE #480: Apply button for assets
00:49 < Mech422> rizen: basically - just more of the same - more 'code centeric' material
00:49 <@rizen> that's not a suggestion
00:50 < Mech422> rizen: there are a lot of refugees from other cms systems out there now (hell, anyone who's working on the web now has used at least one)
00:50 < Mech422> rizen: so some way of comparing / contrasting webgui with 'what you already know'
00:50 <@rizen> but you want a compare contrast of programming stuff, rather than feature set
00:50 < Mech422> rizen: for instance, db based development will be a big change for a lot of people
00:51 <@preaction> from the frontend or from the backend? so "This is a django app, and this is a webgui app." viewing the code of each
00:51 < Mech422> rizen: yeah - something that lets you see the parts of say an asset, so you can get 'a feel' for how much effort its going to be to learn/create stuff
00:51 < Mech422> preaction: maybe not quite 1 to 1 - but yeah, being able to compare 'common tasks' across systems
00:51 < Mech422> preaction: for instance - it took me 2 hours to make my first template...
00:52 < Mech422> err..first macro
00:52 <@rizen> Mech422: the only problem with doing that kind of a comparison, would be that we'd have to learn all those systems
00:52 <@rizen> and there are more than 2000 out there
00:52 < Mech422> 2 minutes to make the macro, and 2 hours to figure out whether or not article should be interpolating it ...
00:53 <@rizen> doing a video to show you how to build something is one thing, doing something that can give you any kind of meaningful comparison to system X is quite something else
00:53 < Mech422> rizen: well - you only need to do the 'webgui' side of it... the hard part would be determining the 'common tasks' - like the 15 minute wiki demo
00:53 < Mech422> rizen: ok... Umm - how do you eval new libraries ?
00:53 < Mech422> rizen: you look at the docs, right ?
00:53 <@rizen> so give me a list of 5 common tasks you wish would have been on the site when you got here
00:53 < Mech422> rizen: some sample code (hopefully code similiar to what you want to do..)
00:54 < Mech422> rizen: and then maybe look at what support options are available (forumn/irc/books/consultants/etc) 
00:54 < Mech422> right ?
00:54 <@rizen> and all of that stuff is already on the site
00:55 <@rizen> perhaps we just need a better focus point for it
00:55 <@rizen> like a "Getting Started For Developers"
00:55 < Mech422> rizen: ah - Yes!!
00:55 <@rizen> and a "Getting Started for Designers"
00:56 < Mech422> rizen: I keep bringing up the wiki example - but it would have been cool to see an app that everyone is familiar with, build from the 'ground up'
00:56 <@rizen> we have examples like those in our books
00:56 < Mech422> the trivia example was a start - but a lot of the methods in it weren't covered in the tutorial (mostly the editing of questions/answers)
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00:56 < Mech422> rizen: yeah - I'm assuming thats all in the books...
00:57 <@rizen> every type of plugin we make has at least two examples in the dev guide
00:57 < Mech422> rizen: but before people get to that point - they want to sorta figure out, how the tool will fit for them
00:58 < Mech422> rizen: like form handling, templating, routing
00:58 <@rizen> step 1, don't start with assets
00:58 <@rizen> assets are the hardest thing you can build in webgui
00:59 <@preaction> yeah, start with macros, then learn the session object
00:59 < Mech422> rizen: maybe some performance numbers - "You can serve XXX pages/day of this type on a core-duo 2Ghz with 1G RAM"
00:59 < zylopfa> Start with Macros imo
00:59 <@rizen> impossible
00:59 <@rizen> and anybody that quotes that is lying
00:59 < Mech422> rizen: I know you can't be _accurate_ but you can give a _feel_
00:59 <@rizen> unless they are saying something from a static html perspective
00:59 < Mech422> rizen: for instance, Plone is known to be 'slow'...
01:00 < Mech422> rizen: how slow, depends on the app - but it's no-where near as fast as say drupal
01:00 <@rizen> Mech422, you obviously don't run a community. if you did you'd know that me publishing that sort of thing means that someone would try to hold me to it for all cases
01:00 < Mech422> rizen: ok ok...
01:00 < zylopfa> if you need to change the owner of descendants of a particular asset, do you do a foreach loop on your own or is there a fast method build in?
01:01 <+perlDreame1> zylopfa, UI or code?
01:01 < zylopfa> code
01:01 <+perlDreame1> use getLineage to get all descendants, then iterate with foreach/while
01:01 < zylopfa>    my $children = $userfolder->getLineage(["self","descendants"],{returnObjects=>1});
01:01 < zylopfa>    foreach my $descendant (@$children) {
01:01 < zylopfa>         .. do it here
01:01 < zylopfa>    }
01:01 < zylopfa> sorry for that
01:01 < zylopfa> but that was what i had in mind
01:01 <@rizen> Mech422: ok, i'll see what i can do about what you've said...obviously i want people to find and use webgui
01:01 <+perlDreame1> that's exactly right
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01:02 < zylopfa> perlDreame1, i am getting the hang of it slowly
01:02 < Mech422> rizen: I'm just saying seeing some 'real world' estimates for performance would be helpful - hell - just publish the stats for say cmsmatrix.com ?
01:02 <@rizen> Mech422: but at the same time, been doing this long enough to know that no matter what i do, tomorrow i'll get another guy just like you in here saying that i didn't do enough. =)
01:02 < Mech422> rizen: true - your right - running a community is a difficult task....
01:03 < Mech422> rizen: and more and more lately, OSS is a 'marketing' issue rather then a coding one :-/
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01:04 <+perlDreame1> rizen: I would also say (like you need more to do) that use.perl.org journals would be good.
01:05 <+perlDreame1> Maybe just something like this: http://use.perl.org/~sri/journal/37629
01:05 <@rizen> pd: not going to happen
01:05 < Mech422> rizen: btw - the thing about 'don't  start with assets - start with macros', even though its in the tutorial will confuse people from other CMS systems 
01:05 <@rizen> i can barely find enough time to write a black blog
01:05 <@rizen> entry once per week
01:05 < Mech422> rizen: because in most systems, 'macros' are toys and to do any real work you need to create a 'content-type' or 'workflow'
01:06 <@rizen> Mech422: webgui's not really like any other system out there
01:06 <@rizen> at least not any i've tried
01:06 < Mech422> rizen: right - but people that don't know webgui don't know that :-)
01:06 <@rizen> well then i'll have to say *that* first so they know
01:07 < Mech422> rizen: from what I've seen, a wG 'macro' is basically a perl method complete with parameters and full access to any .pm's you care to use ?
01:07 <@rizen> indeed
01:07 < Mech422> thats _mighty_ powerful compared to 'macros' in other systems
01:07 <@rizen> the idea is to put a little programmer functionality in the hands of a normal user
01:08 < Mech422> rizen: right - but your idea of a 'little' is far more then most others :-)  You could basically write whole apps in wG just using macros and template vars
01:08 <@rizen> a user might not be able to write what the AssetProxy macro can do for example, but they certainly can use the AssetProxy macro
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01:09 <@rizen> Mech422: hardly, but i get your point
01:09 < Mech422> rizen:hell - your macros even nest :-D
01:10 < Mech422> but anyway, thats the sort of thing I mean - people are going to have all kinds of 'baggage' from whatever cms/framework they used before
01:10 < Mech422> macro == toy, perl == hard to read, whatever
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01:11 < Mech422> the whole db driven development thing will be a big switch for a lot of people
01:12 < Mech422> and it didn't work out too well for plone - so people that heard the plone horror stories are gonna be hestitant about it...
01:13 < Mech422> The actual feature set of wG is HUGE - and cms maxtrix makes it abundantly clear how powerful wG is...
01:13 < zylopfa> Mech422, a good way to learn webgui better is to buy the developer guide
01:13 < Mech422> but its the whole "where do I go from here...." thing
01:13 < zylopfa> and its not an ad for it i make
01:13 < zylopfa> I bought it myself
01:13 < zylopfa> and i had A lot of loose ends before i read it
01:13 <@rizen> well Mech422, you've given me a lot to think about...i'll see what i can do to make it a bit easier for the next guy
01:13 < Mech422> zylopfa: I have to make sure the client signs off on wG first, but I'll be buying a full set of the books :-)
01:14 < zylopfa> Now i am programming payment gateways and such
01:14 < Mech422> rizen: I'll be happy to help with docs or whatever if you like
01:14 < zylopfa> just finished 1 gateway
01:14 < zylopfa> I will make a paypal gateway also
01:14 < zylopfa> i mean PayDriver ofc
01:14 < Mech422> rizen: and please, don't think I'm bitching - wG is awesome and the support you guys have provided on channel is really above and beyond
01:15 < zylopfa> What got me real going was also the community
01:15 < Mech422> rizen: I just hoped the info could help you with growing the community
01:15 <@rizen> it all helps, it's just about finding enough hours in the day
01:15 <@rizen> =)
01:15 < Mech422> (and in the future, make it easier for me to get wG consulting gigs based on the huge user base/ community  :-) )
01:16 <@rizen> i have a staff of 15 full time people, and i still can't find enough hours in the day. =)
01:16 < zylopfa> woo shit rizen 
01:17 < Mech422> rizen: I hear ya - we're a 2 man web shop - you never get everything done (hell, just look at our website for that :-P )
01:17 < Mech422> rizen: 15 ?  wow - that would make you like the 3rd largest plone shop in the world !
01:17 < zylopfa> I am a cms provider and hoster and designs pages also (outsourced the last part to russia)
01:17 < Mech422> rizen: the biggest zope shop is only 40 people (zope corp) 
01:18 < Mech422> rizen: so your already outstriping them :-)
01:18 <@rizen> if you add in my contractors then i've got them bet on that
01:18 < Mech422> LOL
01:18 <@rizen> we have a stable of about 40 contractors that we use regularly
01:18 <@rizen> s/bet/beat/
01:19 < Mech422> nice!
01:19 < Mech422> thats another problem with plone - finding zope/plone people - they're _scarce_ and expensive
01:19 < zylopfa> Mech422, I made a little commandline script to make automatic user areas if you wanna see
01:19 <@rizen> but honestly, these days we're being dwarfed by the businesses that are out there making their money on webgui
01:20 <@rizen> most of them are pretty small 2-10 people each, but there's lots and lots of them, all over the world
01:20 < zylopfa> yeah :(
01:20 < zylopfa> I guess i am one of those
01:20 < Mech422> zylopfa: Oh cool - are you gonna put it on the bazaar ? 
01:21 < zylopfa> Yeah but i need to make it more general first, like it is now it takes
01:21 < zylopfa> perl createpages.pl -configFile=zhtest.globalcontrol.biz.conf --userName=zylopfa
01:21 < Mech422> rizen: do you do sub-contract work ?  people like us almost always need subs when we get a big job ?
01:21 < zylopfa> and it create a user home for user zylopfa
01:21 < zylopfa> and make a plage and an article on the users home
01:21 < zylopfa> and makes it owned by the user
01:22 <@rizen> Mech422: yes we do...and if we don't have the time for it, then we can put you in touch with some other webgui vendors
01:22 < zylopfa> s/plage/page/
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01:24 < Mech422> rizen: using small shops like us as 'account reps' to help keep a steady stream of work might provide some economies of scale..
01:24 < Mech422> rizen: for instance, we couldn't afford a full-time webgui guy - let alone 15 of them...
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01:25 <@rizen> well for that matter we often ask smaller shops to do work for us too
01:26 <@rizen> us acting like a hub for work helps keep the community working
01:26 < Mech422> rizen: right..
01:26 < Mech422> rizen: one thing the small plone shops talked about was donating to the plone foundation for the creator of nice plone collaterals
01:27 < Mech422> rizen: that the foundation could order in bulk, and the small shops could purchase in smaller quantities
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01:29 <+perlDreame1> right now, PB = wG Foundation
01:31 < Mech422> ahh...
01:31 <@rizen> you think so PB?
01:31 <@rizen> pd?
01:32 < Mech422> well - if any of the small shops want to do something similiar - I wouldn't mind dropping a lil cash on some wG glossies
01:32 <+perlDreame1> rizen, who else evangelizes/sells wG?
01:32 <+perlDreame1> who else supports the community?
01:32 <+perlDreame1> (here in the states)
01:32 <+perlDreame1> I can't speak to the EU and AU crews
01:33 < Mech422> rizen: users guides are another one.... it costs too much for us to develop our own - so we always just buy a book to give our clients
01:34 <@tavisto> I've brought up the idea of a non-profit wG before but I'm not sure the timing is right
01:34 <@tavisto> Mech422, we definitely want to include a starting point for developers in the new getting started area. The goal is for new devs to have a focused couple of resources for understanding development in wG
01:34 <@tavisto> Mech422, you do know about the free Primer right?
01:34 < Mech422> tavisto: I'm not so much suggesting a foundation - but I would suggest/participate in some sort of advertising materials 'thing'
01:35 < Mech422> tavisto: right now, I have _zero_ collaterals to show clients about wG - and I'd rather buy them then try to do it myself :-P
01:36 < Mech422> tavisto: somebody (pb?) must have some nice wG slicks/glossies they can 'de-brand' and just leave the generic wG info ?
01:37 < Mech422> that would be something I'd buy (say 100-200 at a time)
01:37 <@tavisto> we have a collection of brochures but they are currently all branded versions
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01:38 < Mech422> tavisto: that would be a nice add up on the webshop with the books ?
01:39 <@rizen> Are you looking for printed brochures or just PDFs of the brochures?
01:39 < Mech422> rizen: either would work - I can run up to Kinko's :-)
01:40 < Mech422> rizen: it would also give you an opportunity to 'brand' wG consistently, and present a nice professional image of wG from even the smallest of shops
01:44 < metanil> when we create an assset object the data is take from processPropertiesFromFormPost.. but what if i want to pass my own data onto it without using form??
01:44 <@tavisto> Mech422, well for the bazaar we'd like to put the books on as .PDFs but unfortunately their is a huge piracy issues
01:44 <@tavisto> we've looked at some options but none of them were totally secure or cost efficient
01:45 < Mech422> tavisto: hmm - that sucks
01:45 < Mech422> tavisto: especially from a 'community' project
01:46 <@tavisto> well it's a much better way of delivering books to the international community
01:46 < Mech422> tavisto: I used to buy pdf copies of the webmin manual - and I got a similiar complaint from that author as well
01:46 <@rizen> Mech422: a long time ago we only had one book rather than the piles of them we have now...and we distributed it as PDF...then it kept showing up in google because people would buy it, and publish it to a public web site
01:46 <@tavisto> but we even have piracy issues right now with old versions of 5.5 Ruling WebGUI from years back
01:47 <@tavisto> But, the free primer is a great start for new users
01:47 < Mech422> well - I'm happy either way.... pdf is ok for a quick read - but nothing beats a real printed manual for stuff you reference constantly
01:47 <@tavisto> exactly the way I feel
01:47 <@apeiron> I would argue the other way for quick reference. Computers search faster than I can. :)
01:48 < Mech422> apeiron: just hard to annotate your screen :-D
01:48 <@apeiron> Mech422, Get a better PDF reader. :)
01:49 <@apeiron> Both Preview.app (as of Leopard) and Skim for OS X allow for annotations.
01:49  * Mech422 is a KDE user
01:49 <@apeiron> um... file an RFE?
01:49 <+perlDreame1> RFE: Mech422 to switch to MacOSX
01:49 <+perlDreame1> I don't think that would be accepted, apeiron ;)
01:49 < Mech422> hehe ....
01:50 <@tavisto> I always like to go through tech manuals with a nice big highlighter and pen
01:50 <@apeiron> Actually, I meant for kpdf or such.
01:51 < metanil> when we create an asset object, normally data is taken from processPropertiesFromFormPost.. but what if i want to pass my own data onto it without using form??
01:52 <+perlDreame1> metanil, use $asset->update()
01:52  * SnowWrite will probably get shot for this..but this is a good example..just updated to Plone 3
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01:52 < SnowWrite> https://www.plonebook.info/books
01:52 <@apeiron> Mech422, http://okular.kde.org/formats.php seems to be your best bet for annotations for KDE.
01:53 <@tavisto> Mech422, we also have a basic white paper on plainblack.com/success
01:56 < metanil> perlDreame1: thanks, i need to set all variables in Asset->definition..
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01:59 <@rizen> HEAR YE! HEAR YE!
02:00 <@rizen> After months of planning and effort, WebGUI TV is officially live on webgui.org
02:00 <@rizen> Go to http://www.webgui.org/wgtv
02:04 <@rizen> and with the crickets chirping
02:05 <@rizen> i guess i will bid you all farewell!
02:05 -!- rizen is now known as rizenisaway
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02:10 < zylopfa> aha nice i will check it now
02:17 <+perlDreame1> metanil, you only need to set the ones that you don't want defaults for
02:17 < zylopfa> perlDreame1, can you tell me if this "create pages" automatically utility script would be something people could use for inspiration?
02:18 <+perlDreame1> zylopfa, maybe.  But if you made it a workflow...
02:18 <+perlDreame1> that would be truly useful
02:18 < zylopfa> ok i will, but first will you look at it?
02:18 < zylopfa> then i make it into a workflow if the idea is good
02:18 <+perlDreame1> sure!
02:19 < zylopfa> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m41748092
02:20 <+perlDreame1> did you start with _script.skeleton in the sbin directory?
02:21 < zylopfa> perlDreame1, i also thought of making a wobject that takes a branch as input eg. /root/home/usersite, and then make a user area for each user under /members/membername
02:21 < zylopfa> using the skeleton in the /root/home/usersite
02:21 <+perlDreame1> that would be more of a operation than a wobject
02:21 < zylopfa> perlDreame1, no
02:21 < zylopfa> yeah perlDreame1 its a utility script atm
02:22 <+perlDreame1> Sure.  We have utility script skeletons, too.  It handles making sessions and closing them to save you a little typing
02:22 <+perlDreame1> For next time ;)
02:22 < zylopfa> The reason i need this is i want users to have their own "place" on the site
02:22 < zylopfa> with their own personal Calendar, Stockpicker, Forum etc.
02:22 <+perlDreame1> In the Version::Tag, you should include the user's name in the tag name for easy tracking later
02:22 < zylopfa> ahh good idea
02:23 < zylopfa> and then i can just create the site as it would look and then run the script when they user is made
02:23 < zylopfa> so they get access to their private site within the site
02:23 <+perlDreame1> Yes.  And the Workflow will automate the running for you.
02:23 < zylopfa> yes indeed
02:23 <+perlDreame1> Since we have a workflow that runs on User creation
02:23 <+perlDreame1> and one that runs on deactivation, too, IIRC
02:24 < zylopfa> sweet so it can clean up
02:24 <+perlDreame1> so you can clean up old stuff from users who leave the site
02:24 <+perlDreame1> double check that one, though
02:24 <+perlDreame1> It's in Settings.
02:24 < zylopfa> yeah i will
02:24 < zylopfa> since i started webgui i wanted to solve this problem
02:25 < zylopfa> i know its kind of what the dashbord is for
02:25 < zylopfa> but i could never figure it out
02:25 <+perlDreame1> You're not the only person who wants this
02:25 <+perlDreame1> The dashboard is hard.
02:25 < zylopfa> like this you can just create the page
02:25 < zylopfa> and then "userify" it with the program i am making as a workflow
02:27 <+perlDreame1> One other idea to think about.
02:27 < zylopfa> hit me!
02:27 <+perlDreame1> Instead of making the new content by hand, you could just deploy a package
02:27 <+perlDreame1> Are you familiar with packages yet?
02:27 < zylopfa> yeah semi, you use it on a branch and create it
02:27 < zylopfa> then you can "paste" sort of 
02:27 < zylopfa> into another branch
02:28 <+perlDreame1> yes, think clone instead of paste
02:28 < zylopfa> yeah clone
02:28 <+perlDreame1> For the customization, you use lots of macros
02:28 <+perlDreame1> for example, in the title, instead of " $username's page " you say "^User(username);'s page"
02:29 < zylopfa> ahhh yeah perlDreame1 
02:29 < zylopfa> I wanted to make it in code first, to check it out
02:29 <+perlDreame1> you would still need to spider it and change all the permissions
02:29 < zylopfa> yeah thats what i do in the end
02:29 <+perlDreame1> The advantage is that someone who does not know how to code can setup your user branch.
02:29 < zylopfa>    my $children = $userfolder->getLineage(["self","descendants"],{returnObjects=>1});
02:29 < zylopfa>    foreach my $descendant (@$children) {
02:29 < zylopfa>      $descendant->update({ownerUserId=>$userobj->userId});
02:29 < zylopfa>    }
02:30 <+perlDreame1> exactly
02:30 < zylopfa> yeah perlDreame1 it has to be as little developer knowlege as possible
02:30 < zylopfa> and as flexible as possible at the same time
02:30 <+perlDreame1> the disadvantage is that it is another parameter to track : url/assetId of package
02:31 < zylopfa> ahh yeah
02:31 < zylopfa> I just found out today that all the parameters you supply when creating assets in code
02:32 < zylopfa> is located in the definition for  the asset you want
02:32 < zylopfa> and if you follow the inheritance line you can find other parameters
02:33 < zylopfa> like Layout.pm also have Asset.pm definition
02:33 < zylopfa> and Wobject 
02:33 <+perlDreame1> yes
02:33 < zylopfa> I know its just the way object oriented programming is supposed to work
02:33 < zylopfa> but i think its good to  be told anyway
02:33 <+perlDreame1> but it is a little confusing at first
02:34 < zylopfa> yeah for me it was, as i only programmed in none object oriented perl, with some use of objects, but not consistent
02:35 < zylopfa> I am a cms provider and with my new knowledge i can make what you also have on webgui.org
02:35 < zylopfa> the "Try your own webgui"
02:37 <+perlDreame1> actually, the WRE comes with a demo account server
02:37 <+perlDreame1> so you can also do beta.webgui.org
02:37 <+perlDreame1> and demo.plainblack.com
02:37 < zylopfa> ahah nice, I never knew that
02:37 < zylopfa> I installed from source
02:37 <+perlDreame1> rizen really gets Free Software and Open Source
02:37 <+perlDreame1> It's worth your time to look at the WRE
02:38 <+perlDreame1> what OS do you use?
02:38 < zylopfa> i use redhat fedora
02:38 <+perlDreame1> for hosting,too?
02:38 < zylopfa> yeah
02:38 <+perlDreame1> well, that's 1/2 good news
02:38 <+perlDreame1> you may need to compile the WRE from source
02:38 <+perlDreame1> since there are no fedora packages for it
02:38 < zylopfa> ahhh thats no problem
02:38 <+perlDreame1> but you could try a RedHat binary
02:39 < zylopfa> I realy like to set up things on my own though, so i know how its configured
02:40 < zylopfa> I also made scripts to create sites, so i just do ./create-site.pl www.domain.com
02:40 <+perlDreame1> The WRE provides those as well
02:40 < zylopfa> then it sets up a blank site
02:40 < zylopfa> ahah insane
02:41 < zylopfa> its a good idea with the wre i think
02:41 < SnowWrite> darn, the site style video still doesn't work
02:41 < zylopfa> cause many can be frightened to set it all uå
02:41 < SnowWrite> err doesn't work
02:42 <+perlDreame1> please post a bug SnowWrite
02:42 <+perlDreame1> wgtv is brand spanking new
02:42 < SnowWrite> k
02:42 < zylopfa> sweet
02:42  * SnowWrite will ask Mech422 how do do that :-)
02:42 < Mech422> ok guys - SnowWrite is gonna wanna watch wGTV all nite, and I still have to learn all this wG stuff...
02:42 <+perlDreame1> Head over to www.webgui.org/bugs
02:42 <+perlDreame1> log in/create user account
02:42 <+perlDreame1> Submit a new bug
02:43 < Mech422> so we're gonna head out home - and get some food :-)
02:43 <+perlDreame1> earn karma for submitting a bug
02:43 < SnowWrite> can I get more karma then Mech422??
02:43 < Mech422> thanks again for all the help everyone!
02:43 < Mech422> SnowWrite: Nev-ahh !
02:43  * SnowWrite is just wondering *ducks*
02:43  * Mech422 cackles evily....
02:43 < SnowWrite> ok gotta post this bug first
02:43 < zylopfa> perlDreame1, i am also gonna make a Mp3 Wobject, so you can embed a player + add songs to it  and add/edit/delete playlists etc.
02:45 <+perlDreame1> cool!
02:46 < zylopfa> Its good to make it a wobject cause it has colatteral data such as playlists
02:47 < zylopfa> It will be an upload thing, shown to the user and it will take x mp3 files either in a zipped package or 1 by 1
02:47 < zylopfa> and then unzip / save the files in the directory for those things
02:47 < zylopfa> and then take the mp3-tag out from the files
02:47 < Mech422> oh - that reminds me - Storage.pm looks cool... need to look into it more
02:48 < zylopfa> and populate a "My Songs" list, used to select songs from
02:48 < zylopfa> so you can add them to playlists 
02:48 < zylopfa> Mech422, I haven't even looked at that yet
02:48 < Mech422> zylopfa: Storage has methods for storing files on various backends and retrieving them...
02:49 < Mech422> zylopfa: so you could store mp3's on the file system and not in the DB
02:49 < Mech422> zylopfa: and I can use it to store stuff for 'Varnish' to cache :-)
02:50 < zylopfa> pretty sweet indeed
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03:03 <@preaction> who do i get to blame for the WGTV design? it is 50% awesome, 50% functional, and 50% awesome
03:03 <@preaction> yeah, that's 150% baby!
03:04 < zylopfa> haah <3
03:04 <@preaction> wait... webgui.org style just got updated?
03:04 <@preaction> oh, i see, not used by all pages yet
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05:09 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7919 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 
05:09 < CIA-39> WebGUI: Update the Asset skeleton so that it doesn't try to call
05:09 < CIA-39> WebGUI: the International system with procedural calls. Update
05:09 < CIA-39> WebGUI: International pod to remove procedural calls as well.
05:09 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7920 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (3 files in 3 dirs): backport Asset skeleton and International pod fixes
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06:51 < elnino> cool videos!! Thanks for posting them!
06:52 < elnino> I'll be telling everyone about wgtv!
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18:51 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7922 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Folder.pm: remove debug code and do Folder check via isa
18:51 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7923 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Folder.pm: fix syntax error and move Folder check to isa
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20:14 < elnino> rizen - I like wgtv  - good job!
20:18 <+perlDreamer> rizen rocks
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20:32 <@rizen> thanks
20:33 <@rizen> elninio: will webgui tv have any impact on whether you attend the next wuc or not?
20:53 <+perlDreamer> rizen, did you implement karma decay on webgui.org?
20:53 <@rizen> not yet
20:54 <+perlDreamer> Hm.  I've been noticing weird things happening with my karma.  I'll graph it and look more closely.
20:54 < zylopfa> Greetings restles souls
20:54 <+perlDreamer> Howdy, zylopfa.
20:54 < zylopfa> I am writing workflows now
20:55 < zylopfa> For the bazaar
20:55 <+perlDreamer> Excellent.  If you decide to write tests, you can base them on /data/WebGUI/t/Workflow/Activity/NotifyAboutLowStock.pm.
20:55 <+perlDreamer> zylopfa, you are a hosting provider?
20:56 < zylopfa> yeah hosting, designing, developing
20:56 <+perlDreamer> 1-man shop?
20:56 < zylopfa> yeah, the designs i have outsourced to some from russia though
20:58 <+perlDreamer> Have you added your company to the hosters wiki page?
20:58 <+perlDreamer> http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/hosters
20:58 < zylopfa> ahh let me check on that
20:59 < zylopfa> Sweet I will add myself
20:59 < zylopfa> thanks a lot
21:00 <+perlDreamer> It's free advertising ;)
21:00 <+perlDreamer> Just be sure to follow the guidelines on the page.
21:00 < elnino> rizen - sorry I steped a way.
21:01 <+perlDreamer> I keep thinking about what Mech422 was saying yesterday.
21:01 <+perlDreamer> the Plone community seems to be huge
21:01 < zylopfa> Indeed I will perlDreamer, my company is from denmark but i have hosting provider in germany
21:01 < zylopfa> I rent servers from them
21:01 <+perlDreamer> but more and more WebGUI people keep popping up
21:02 < zylopfa> I hope so perlDreamer 
21:02 < elnino> well, it depends if I still work for the company next year =) I think they saw a lot of value of me going. So I hope that I would be able to go again.
21:02 < zylopfa> Thin is webgui isnt some shit you set up in 14 seconds and just play.
21:02 <+perlDreamer> indeed
21:02 < zylopfa> Webgui is serious shit imo, and it deserves the time it takes to know it
21:03 <+perlDreamer> yeah, you can't just walk into it
21:03 < zylopfa> Thats why many give up i think
21:03 <+perlDreamer> I wonder how many people try, and then get frustrated and walk away
21:03 <+perlDreamer> yeah
21:03 < zylopfa> yeah, but they should know its a serious platform and a well designed api
21:03 <@rizen> elnino, i'm not asking whether or not you are coming, but whether or not webgui tv influences your decision to come
21:03 < zylopfa> its not just some php thats put together over a weekend
21:04 < elnino> no, I would still go.  Networking in person is invaluable, and you don't get that by watching videos.
21:04 <@rizen> zylopfa: nope, it's some perl that was put together over a weekend. =)
21:05 < zylopfa> yeah rizen which is much better!! I hate php cause I have seen to many php utilities, sites , tools that always have html embedded
21:05 <@rizen> elnino, i'm glad that's your response. the other important factor is that you can't ask questions to a video. =)
21:05 < zylopfa> I dont think its right to embed content and code
21:06 < elnino> and on the other side of things, I think it would encourage me to go because of the wide variety of great topics you covered.
21:06 <@rizen> zylopfa, i would embed html but perlDreamer charges me $20 each time i do
21:06 < zylopfa> AWESOME!! good work perlDreamer !!
21:07 < zylopfa> I can mostly never read some php coded site without vommiting blood :D
21:07 <@rizen> perlDreamer i need some advice
21:07 <@rizen> i just implemented WebGUI's first aspect
21:08 <+perlDreamer> aspect?
21:08 <@rizen> aspects are things you can add to an asset, but aren't assets themselves
21:08 < zylopfa> whats that
21:08 <@rizen> for example, i just created the "Comments" aspect
21:08 <@rizen> which allows you to add bazaar style comments to anything
21:08 <@rizen> with about 2 lines of code
21:08 < zylopfa> woo
21:08 <+perlDreamer> is it like keywords/mixins ?
21:08 <@rizen> it's like mixins
21:08 < zylopfa> ahh rizen there is where the inheritance comes to fruit
21:08 <@rizen> aspect = role = mixin = trait are all used interchangably in the dev world
21:09 < zylopfa> cause all is an asset (nearly) and then you change the asset class 1 bit?
21:09 <@rizen> anyway, the advice i need from you is to how to write tests for it
21:09 <@rizen> it's not an asset itself
21:09 <@rizen> it can't exist outside of another asset
21:09 < zylopfa> damn
21:09 <@rizen> so how do you test it?
21:10 <+perlDreamer> In the test file, write a dummy asset that uses it
21:10 <+perlDreamer> DummyAsset isa Asset with mixins
21:10 <+perlDreamer> nothing else
21:10 <+perlDreamer> just put it in t/lib/WebGUI
21:10 <@rizen> what if i have a real asset that uses it (Cuz i'm going to make wikipage use it) is it fair to test it there?
21:10 <+perlDreamer> sure
21:10 <+perlDreamer> that's how I did JSON collateral
21:10 <@rizen> ok thanks
21:10 <+perlDreamer> which, imo, needs to be the next aspect
21:11 <@rizen> well once you see how i did this one, you can easily write that one. =)
21:11 < zylopfa> perlDreamer, when you make tests is it the same as creating the assets in code? and test that it work ?
21:11 <+perlDreamer> zylopfa, yes
21:11 < zylopfa> ahhh
21:11 <+perlDreamer> you build something (Asset, Group, User), etc. and then exercise it
21:11 <+perlDreamer> eventually we will build tests with automated browsers
21:11 < zylopfa> for all the classes of different things you can do
21:12 <+perlDreamer> Yes.  Today's wG tests only really do API coverage
21:12 <+perlDreamer> we need to begin to test the UI for wG
21:12 < zylopfa> how does one test the UI?
21:12 < zylopfa> Parsing xhtml?
21:12 <+perlDreamer> Look up Selenium
21:12 <+perlDreamer> it's a UI testing framework for web programming
21:13 <+perlDreamer> Essentially, it sits in a real browser, and you push instructions into it
21:13 <+perlDreamer> it does the hard lifting for you
21:13 < zylopfa> woo shit, i just looked at it
21:13 < zylopfa> and its OS
21:13 <+perlDreamer> Kind of like Test::More
21:13 <+perlDreamer> yes
21:13 < zylopfa> Stupid thing is you have to make xhtml so it work in ie
21:14 < zylopfa> but ofc you can run it in more browsers
21:14 <+perlDreamer> My long term dream is to do WebGUI QA on all levels.
21:14 < zylopfa> thats pretty sweet
21:17 <@rizen> and that's one of the big reasons i love perlDreamer <3
21:17 < zylopfa> He is the testing man right?
21:17 < zylopfa> among other things
21:17  * perlDreamer has been slipping recently.  Committed bugs 2 out of the last 3 days.
21:18 <@rizen> he's just "the man"
21:18 < zylopfa> awesome
21:18 < zylopfa> He helps me insane much also, well you do too
21:18 <@rizen> i'm going to stop helping you now though zylopfa, cuz you're from denmark
21:19 <+perlDreamer> rizen has never gotten over the drubbing the Danish navy gave the Americans early on
21:19 < zylopfa> haha rizen yeah :D
21:19 <@rizen> that and i'm jealous of Denmark's national energy infrastructure
21:20 <+perlDreamer> rizen, you should buy Iceland
21:20 <+perlDreamer> I hear it's cheap right now
21:20 < zylopfa> yours are on the brink of anihilation?
21:20 < zylopfa> I heard your powergrids aren't up to par
21:20 <+perlDreamer> Much of the USA infrastructure isn't maintained well
21:20 < zylopfa> so you cant just make clean energy and put it on the wire 
21:21 < zylopfa> cause its already loaded to much
21:21 <@rizen> nope, that's not the reason
21:21 <@rizen> we can't do it because we have stupid politicians and stupid people that back them
21:22 < zylopfa> :(
21:22 < zylopfa> Its a big machine of interests and looking out for your own
21:22 <@rizen> oh and stupid corporations that think the only place you can innovate is in how to make more money, not how to make better products
21:23 < zylopfa> hah yah thats lame, but the sad truth
21:23 <@rizen> perlDreamer: do you think that's the reason that people have nominated us for president?
21:24 <+perlDreamer> "us" for president?  I think _you're_ the one they nominated.
21:24 <+perlDreamer> Since you picked for me running mate, the campaign popularity has waned ;)
21:25 <@rizen> so you are my sarah palin?
21:25 < zylopfa> It was awesome the president video they made
21:25 <+perlDreamer> Yes, but I don't look so good in heels.
21:26 <@rizen> maybe not, but you at least have a measurable iq
21:26 <+perlDreamer> and my wife has never used her influence to get Vrbsky fired
21:26 <@rizen> hehe
21:26 <@rizen> wait...here's the big question
21:27 <@rizen> Did you or did you not get your first passport before 2007?
21:27 < zylopfa> I am gonna make a workflow that automatically print a "You are fired" letter and sends it, to whom ever deleted content :D
21:27 <+perlDreamer> First passport was in 1993
21:27 <@rizen> nice zylopfa
21:27 <+perlDreamer> to chase my girlfriend to Europe
21:27 <@rizen> that would be a great "ACME" workflow activity
21:27 <@rizen> see pd, you already have more world experience than palin
21:28 <@rizen> she thinks that living next to canada and russia is world experience =)
21:28 <+perlDreamer> Maybe I should call McCain
21:29 <@rizen> you should, you could save the ticket
21:29 <@rizen> my respect for him has gone down incredibly over the past couple of months....and at least half of that is due to him choosing palin
21:31 < zylopfa> Sirs, I have a little question about Workflows
21:31 <+perlDreamer> ask away, Sir Z
21:31 <+perlDreamer> note, I have to leave in 10 minutes
21:31 < zylopfa> I am making my own now and its onCreateUserByUser
21:31 < zylopfa> I want it to execute when a user is created
21:31 <+perlDreamer> ok
21:32 <@rizen> also note that i'm not helping you anymore you silly Dane
21:32 < zylopfa> but in the settings /user
21:32 < zylopfa> the workflow wont show up
21:32 <+perlDreamer> Did you add it to your WebGUI config file?
21:32 < zylopfa> I have put it into the config file
21:32 < zylopfa>      "WebGUI::User" : [
21:32 < zylopfa>          "WebGUI::Workflow::Activity::CreateCronJob",
21:32 < zylopfa>          "WebGUI::Workflow::Activity::NotifyAboutUser",
21:32 < zylopfa>          "WebGUI::Workflow::Activity::onCreateUserByUser"
21:32 < zylopfa>       ]
21:32 < zylopfa> under the user thing
21:33 < zylopfa> as it think its there it should be?
21:34 <+perlDreamer> restarted WebGUI after editing the config file?
21:35 < zylopfa> yes Sir
21:35 < zylopfa> will do it again and see
21:35 <+perlDreamer> Have you created a workflow that contains the Activity?
21:36 < zylopfa> When i am creating it, i choose "Add New Workflow" and i get to choose the object
21:37 < zylopfa> where i choose "WebGUI::User"
21:37 <+perlDreamer> yes
21:37 <+perlDreamer> then add an activity to that workflow
21:37 < zylopfa> But i can only see the 2 activities that is standard
21:37 <+perlDreamer> Just so that we're on the same page...
21:38 < zylopfa> yes
21:38 <+perlDreamer> You went into the Admin Console and chose Workflows
21:38 <+perlDreamer> then said add new workflow
21:38 < zylopfa> yeah
21:38 <+perlDreamer> hm
21:38 <+perlDreamer> I'll have to dig some more to see what's going on.
21:38 <+perlDreamer> Your workflow is in Workflow/Activity/onCreateUserbyUser.pm ?
21:40 < zylopfa>  /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/onCreateUserByUser.pm yes
21:40 <+perlDreamer> Gotta scoot.  I may be back on later today, maybe not.
21:40 <+perlDreamer> Try reestablishing formal negotiations with rizen ;)
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21:40 < zylopfa> ok friend, i will try to add it manually
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21:44 <@rizen> zylopfa: does your workflow activity compile? checking that is my only advice
21:45 < zylopfa> perl -wc -I /data/WebGUI/lib onCreateUserByUser.pm ?
21:45 < zylopfa> that returns syntax error ok
21:45 < zylopfa> but i dont know if thats what you mean
21:46 <@rizen> that's what i mean
21:46 < zylopfa> no errors in error log also
21:46 < zylopfa> maybe error in config file somewhere
21:52 < zylopfa> I have also tried to add the activity manually by making this url
21:52 < zylopfa> http://zhtest.globalcontrol.biz/home?op=editWorkflowActivity;className=WebGUI::Workflow::Activity::onCreateUserByUser;workflowId=FJay2b-DZGwQ4-scputdag
21:52 < zylopfa> It then show a default edit screen, but not like the one i have defined
21:54 < zylopfa> Wait it looks like the one i defined anyway
21:57 < zylopfa> rizen, I am sorry to have taken your time. But i found out what was wrong
21:57 < zylopfa> In my eager to Internationalize the Workflow Activity, I  forgot to rename the: package PackageName; in the i18n file
22:01 <@rizen> excellent
22:02 < zylopfa> Its a real noob error i know, most of my errors are like that
22:04 <@rizen> bah, i make those same errors sometimes
22:05 < zylopfa> its just sick what you can do with webgui, never had so much fun programming against anything
22:06 <@rizen> I'm glad you like it. I hope you'll be a contributor for years to come.
22:06 <@rizen> Plus, you can try and win the Colin Kuskie Contributor of the Year award.
22:09 < zylopfa> I will share all i do with the community (well all i do that work)
22:10 < zylopfa> tuesday next week i will contribute with a PayDriver, for the danish banks payment processor
22:10 < zylopfa> I am having them enable recurring payments on the test server, so they have to do that before i can finish the recurring part
22:11 <@rizen> do you know, are there other people in the danish webgui communty?
22:11 < zylopfa> I dont know of any, I saw their site, its not been updated for very long
22:11 < zylopfa> they still use version 6.something
22:12 <@rizen> there used to be others, but sadly they have gone away
22:12 < zylopfa> yeah
22:12 <@rizen> the Danish translation (http://i18n.webgui.org/) was once at 100%
22:12 <@rizen> but now it is only at 5.6%
22:12 < zylopfa> woo shit are you kidding
22:12 < zylopfa> I am working on it
22:12 < zylopfa> think its my 5% there is in it now
22:12 <@rizen> hehe
22:12 <@rizen> probably so
22:12 < zylopfa> yeah it is
22:13 < zylopfa> I need to do it all but it takes good time and danish is very poor on computer-terms
22:13 < zylopfa> german for example has translations for all things like Harddisk, diskette etc. but danish just use the english ones
22:13 <@rizen> ah
22:14 < zylopfa> they tried to make words of their own in the 80's but they never stuck 
22:14 <@rizen> perhaps you should start a danish webgui users group and see if you can get some help for translation?
22:14 < zylopfa> yeah that would be awesome
22:14 < zylopfa> where is it best to start it at?
22:15 <@rizen> australia and holland both have them
22:15 <@rizen> well you should definitely announce it on webgui.org
22:15 < zylopfa> yeah i will do that!
22:15 <@rizen> and post your meetings to the webgui community calendar
22:15 <@rizen> but you probably need a web site
22:15 <@rizen> for example, in holland they have put up webgui.nl
22:15 < zylopfa> yeah i can make one no problem
22:15 < zylopfa> the webgui.dk is taken sadly
22:16 <@rizen> you could ask the webgui.dk peeps if they'd let you have it
22:16 <@rizen> tell them that you want to revitalize it
22:16 <@rizen> maybe seeing that you're interested, they'd even become your first members
22:16 < zylopfa> yeah good idea, the last post is from march in their forum
22:17 < zylopfa> 2008-3-22 @ 23:47  ¬  peter WRE still not usable for windows xp
22:17 < zylopfa> and rizen may I say I am happy you stopped supporting windows
22:17 < zylopfa> Not cause i hate windows
22:17 < zylopfa> But as I see it perl, apache and all the other things you use, are native to unix / linux
22:18 < zylopfa> you also mentioned there was problems with it a lot, just sad it took so much of the time :/
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23:35 < CIA-39> WebGUI: jt * r7924 /WebGUI/ (16 files in 11 dirs): 
23:35 < CIA-39> WebGUI: - Added Comments asset aspect, which allows comments to be added to any asset
23:35 < CIA-39> WebGUI:  easily.
23:35 < CIA-39> WebGUI: - Added comments aspect to wiki.
23:35 < CIA-39> WebGUI: jt * r7925 /experimental/Bazaar/lib/WebGUI/Asset/ (Sku/BazaarItem.pm Wobject/Bazaar.pm): Updated Bazaar to use Comments aspect
--- Day changed Sun Oct 12 2008
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02:08 <+perlDreamer> rizen: What is Class::C3?
02:08 <+perlDreamer> do we need it in testEnvironment.pl?
02:09 < Mech4221> rizen: Client signed off - we'll be ordering books and such Monday :-)
02:10 < Mech4221> OT:  anyone know a good quality, relatively high speed  USB 2.0 or Firewire external HD ?
02:10 <+perlDreamer> Mech4221: I've always bought external USB enclosures for used laptop hard drives.
02:11 <+perlDreamer> And congrats on the client :)
02:11 < Mech4221> perlDreamer: thanks :-D   We usually buy Seagate SATA drives, but the Seagate 'FreeAgent' external is getting some pretty mixed reviews ?
02:12  * perlDreamer is a chip designer for cellphones.  WebGUI hacking is a hobby.
02:12 <+perlDreamer> bbl
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02:33 < zylopfa> I have a question. i am making a workflow and it gets: my ($self,$userobj,$instance) = @_;  passed as the 3 objects
02:34 < zylopfa> I was wondering why the $self->$session is infact the users session
02:35 < zylopfa> I thought the workflow activity was running as admin ? or does it run as the user, and also the passed in user object is the user logged in?
02:43 <@preaction> you can make the session be whatever user you want it to be
02:44 < zylopfa> yeah preaction i was just wondering why both the $session and $user is the user triggering the workflow->activity
02:44 < zylopfa> $userobj even
02:44 <@preaction> because of the way workflow objects work. the session being the current user is not the official way to work on an object
02:45 <@preaction> the $user object that's passed in is the correct way
02:45 < zylopfa> yeah but i am working on it as it says
02:45 < zylopfa> I am making a workflow that triggers when a user have registered on the site
02:46 <@preaction> right, work on the user object passed in
02:46 <@preaction> the session object is the currently logged-in user only because its currently being run realtime
02:46 < zylopfa> yeah i will, and i will set the session object to the admin
02:46 <@preaction> i wouldn't suggest doing that unless you have a good reason
02:46 < zylopfa> so i can do the work the workflow needs, as admin
02:46 < zylopfa> my workflow needs to create folders and pages for new user
02:47 <@preaction> you have addChild, you don't need permission
02:47 < zylopfa> it cant create it if its the user logged in
02:47 <@preaction> permissions are only for the web interface
02:47 < zylopfa> but the user just created have no right
02:47 <@preaction> but you have the CODE
02:47 < zylopfa> ohh i see
02:47 < zylopfa> yeah!
02:48 < zylopfa> Just wondering then why it wont create my assets
02:48 <@preaction> did you commit the version tag it made?
02:48 < zylopfa> yes Sir
02:48 < zylopfa>  $versionTag->commit;
02:48 <@preaction> does the version tag show up under Manage Pending Versions in the Version Tag tab of the Admin Console?
02:49 < zylopfa> no
02:49 <@preaction> good
02:49 < zylopfa> and i did some error log messages
02:49 <@preaction> are the assets showing up as status="approved" in the database? that col is in the assetData table
02:49 < zylopfa> and i can see the activity goes into the branches where i create content
02:49 < zylopfa> will look at that
02:52 < zylopfa> yeah 1825
02:53 < zylopfa> I was searching also for the url of the assets i was creating (i created them by url) and its not in there
02:55 <@preaction> created them by url? there's only one way to create a new asset, and that's addChild
02:55 <@preaction> you can instantiate by url, that's what newByUrl does
02:55 < zylopfa> $userfolder= $memberfolder->addChild({className=>'WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Folder',title=>"$username",url=>"$buildin/$username"});
02:55 < zylopfa> I make them like that
02:56 < zylopfa> i mean i create them with the url of my own choice
02:56 < zylopfa> so it don't default to its own scheme
02:56 <@preaction> and it gets created successfully? $userfolder is defined after that?
02:56 < zylopfa> preaction, !!! I figured it out!!
02:57 < zylopfa> Yesterday i made some tests for this, in a utility script
02:57 < zylopfa> and it seems the members directory was in the trash
02:57 < zylopfa> so it couldn't be created it seems
02:58 < zylopfa> if ( WebGUI::Asset->urlExists( $session, "memberarea" ))
02:58 < zylopfa> does not take into account that the item might be in trash and therefore technically exist still
02:58 < zylopfa> but the function to create the asset takes this into account
03:00 <@preaction> urlExists takes into account the trash, yes
03:01 <@preaction> pretty sure you can addChild into assets in the trash too
03:02 <@preaction> of course, the asset that's created won't work correctly
03:02 < zylopfa> it wont be created cause i tell it to use a defined url
03:02 < zylopfa> and that url exist in the trash
03:15 < zylopfa> preaction, 
03:15 < zylopfa> I found out that the directory i had deleted /memberarea
03:16 < zylopfa> naa never mind you said it should work like that
03:16 < zylopfa> maybe i should make another test then to see if the thing i create is in the trash
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03:36 < zylopfa> preaction, I am making a check: if ($memberfolder->isInTrash()) so i can abort the workflow in that case
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03:44 < zylopfa> damn the workflow engine is smart
03:44 < zylopfa> when i did return error when the folder was in trash, it tried again a little later to run it
03:44 < zylopfa> and it then worked cause i in the meantime has emptied the trash
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05:27 <@preaction> i like these little 2-3 hour feature hunts i go on
05:33 < zylopfa> what have you hunted Sir?
05:33 <@preaction> patspam wanted the Template Upgrade Protection to be smarter, so it now is smarter
05:33 <@preaction> also that code highlighter only took a couple hours
05:34 <@preaction> and the "Apply" button
05:34 <@preaction> spontaneous fun for the whole community!
05:35 < zylopfa> haha <3
05:35 < zylopfa> Awesome  work preaction 
05:35 <@preaction> code highlighter can't be core yet: i dont like how it works...
05:35 <@preaction> i'm trying to understand it so i can fix it
05:36 < zylopfa> yeah, I am still using it on my site
05:36 <@preaction> right now, if i just have a CSS snippet, it doesn't auto-detect (it would have to be inside a <style> tag)
05:36 < zylopfa> works pretty well, just not the resizing
05:36 <@preaction> so i want a select box so i can choose what code i'm editing
05:36 <@preaction> also the auto-tabbing kinda annoys me sometimes, so i want the option to turn it off
05:36 <@preaction> CodeMirror wasn't designed to be that dynamic of adding / removing features
05:37 < zylopfa> preaction, cant it make a check about what kind of Asset it is residing in?
05:37 <@preaction> not really. i could pass the Codearea control a flag for which highlighting it should use, but the Snippet problem remains
05:37 <@preaction> a snippet can be CSS, JS, or HTML, or anything really, and i don't know what it is until the user starts typing
05:37 < zylopfa> like: if(ref($parentasset) =~/snippet/ 
05:38 < zylopfa> ahh ofcourse not
05:38 <@preaction> not like that, a property for the form control would be better
05:38 < zylopfa> yeah
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05:38 <@preaction> so like "parser => "htmlmixed"" or "parser => "javascript""
05:38 <@preaction> but even then, to be able to dynamically choose and have it reparse the text would be ideal
05:43 < zylopfa> yeah would be awesome if you could make it do that
05:44 <@preaction> ... so now i found the codearea that i REALLY wanted: http://cdolivet.net/editarea/editarea/exemples/exemple_full.html
05:45 < zylopfa> woo fuck, that looks so sick
05:45 <@preaction> doesn't support mixed HTML, CSS, JS, but it is less annoying than CodeMirror
05:46 <@preaction> apparently supports i18n already too
05:46 <@preaction> please tell me it's GPL-compatible...
05:46 < zylopfa> yeah
05:47 <@preaction> OMFG Find/Replace!
05:50 < zylopfa> haha sickkk
05:50 < zylopfa> it can do it all :O
05:50 < zylopfa> preaction, i just made a little curiosity for the bazaar
05:51 < zylopfa> a workflow activity that create personal user areas automatically
05:51 <@preaction> i can't wait until JT fixes the bazaar so i can subscribe to the whole thing
05:51 <@preaction> nice
05:51 <@preaction> i can remember more than a few people wanting just that
05:52 < zylopfa> Its not exhaustive yet and it can be made much smarter, but its just to show the concept to people
05:52 < zylopfa> I know i used lonnggg time to understand it
05:52 < zylopfa> and i couldnt find anything about it
05:52 <@preaction> Release Early, Release Often
05:52 < zylopfa> indeed!
05:52 <@preaction> that CodeMirror thing is out there, and now i'm already replacing it ;-)
05:52 < zylopfa> ahahah sweetness
05:52 < zylopfa> keep it up!
05:55 < zylopfa> I haven't had so much fun coding since i met webgui
06:00 <+Radix_> preaction: you still awake?
06:00 <@preaction> temporarily, yes
06:00 <+Radix_> I'm trying to upgrade my wre/webgui install
06:01 <+Radix_> I think I have 7.4.40 atm, and installed the new wre first
06:01 <+Radix_> now I'm getting a 'malformed JSON string, neither array, object, number, string or atom, at character offset 0 ["(end of string)"] at /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/Config/JSON.pm line 135'
06:01 <@preaction> when are you getting it? sounds like a config got clobbered
06:01 <+Radix_> In the forums Graham said I need to upgrade my webgui.. but the ./webguiupdate script doesn't work now either
06:01 <@preaction> did you run the wreupgrade.pl first?
06:02 <+Radix_> no
06:02 <@preaction> in /data/wre/sbin/wreupgrade.pl <-- try that maybe?
06:02 <@preaction> you had an 0.8 and are upgrading to another 0.8 right?
06:02 <+Radix_> yeah
06:02 <@preaction> yeah, then you need to run that upgrade
06:03 <+Radix_> that comes up with the same error
06:03 <@preaction> ok. what's the size of /data/wre/etc/wre.conf ?
06:03 <+Radix_> 0
06:03 <@preaction> is there a /data/wre/docs/install.txt or something? i haven't upgraded my WRE to 0.8.5
06:03 <@preaction> yeah. it got clobbered...
06:03 <@preaction> but why...
06:04 <@preaction> i would ask someone to take a look at that issue, i don't think you're the first to have that happen trying to upgrade to the new WRE (elnino had it happen)
06:04 <@preaction> (ie. file a bug)
06:04 <+Radix_> okey.. what's the best way to fix it?  retrieve the one from the backup and then run wreupgrade?
06:04 <@preaction> that might work
06:05 <@preaction> or if that fails, running the wreconsole and going through setup might work too
06:05 <@preaction> otherwise, you don't really need the new WRE to run the new WebGUI, provided you run /data/webGUI/sbin/testEnvironment.pl before you try running WebGUI's upgrade script
06:05 <+Radix_> what does that file usually contain?  don't think I've ever looked at it before
06:06 <@preaction> wre.conf is a JSON object of various configuration stuff
06:06 <@preaction> mysql port, backup config, wremonitor config
06:06 <@preaction> nothing, i think, that can't be redone quite easily
06:08 <+Radix_> Hmm.. wierd.. my backup one is 0 bytes too
06:09 <@preaction> and the one before that?
06:09 <@preaction> there was an old bug in Config::JSON that would cause that
06:09 <+Radix_> only got one backup of this site atm.. it's just my personal site so never bothered to organise backups
06:10 <@preaction> or try the wreconsole.pl to re-setup the place. just make sure you pick "Manual Install" of webgui
06:14 <+Radix_> hmm.. how do you recreate wre.conf using the wreconsole?  It seems to recognise my existing setup already
06:16 <@preaction> oh ?func=setup i think.. let me find it
06:16 <@preaction> the URL it gave you and /setup
06:16 <@preaction> so localhost:63842/setup or whatever
06:21 < CIA-39> WebGUI: doug * r7926 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Template.pm): - added: "Duplicate this template and edit" now updates the asset we came from, if any
06:21 < CIA-39> WebGUI: jt * r7927 /WebGUI/ (sbin/testEnvironment.pl docs/gotcha.txt): WebGUI now requires Class::C3 version 0.19 or greater.
06:23 <+Radix_> cheers preaction.. think that got it going
06:23 <@preaction> sweet
06:23 <+Radix_> it's still spitting out a couple of errors on mod-perl startup, but works regardless
06:23 <+Radix_> ap_get_server_banner() not available until httpd/2.2.4 falling back to ap_get_server_version() at /data/wre/pr
06:23 <+Radix_> ereqs/lib/perl5/5.8.8/i686-linux/XSLoader.pm line 94, <DATA> line 225
06:23 <+Radix_> a couple like that
06:24 <@preaction> that's a known issue, i forget what causes it but it's safe to ignore
06:24 <+Radix_> the wreconsole doesn't think mod_perl has started because of it it seems
06:24 <+Radix_> but it's running
06:26 <+Radix_> many thanks for your help
06:26 <@preaction> np
06:29 <+Radix_> I have 7.4.40.. can I upgrade straight from this to 7.5.26 ?  or do I need to stop somewhere else along the way?
06:29 <@preaction> check docs/gotcha.txt, but i think you should be able to make it to 7.5.26
06:30 <+Radix_> I'll make another backup and give it a try then :)
06:30 <@preaction> http://www.webgui.org/bazaar/editarea-codearea-editor-with-syntax-highlighting <- here's the new EditArea thing
06:47 < zylopfa> Looks sick awesome preaction 
06:48 <@preaction> yes, i love it
06:48 <@preaction> i also found an idea to import / export the code in that box to a file. sounds like a good RFE to implement
06:49 <@preaction> so just, on-the-fly export the code. edit it in VIM or your favorite editor, then save and import back into the codearea
06:50 < zylopfa> preaction, I am working on yet another Form module
06:51 < zylopfa> its used in definitions
06:51 <@preaction> for doing what?
06:51 < zylopfa> so you can use it in all you do
06:51 < zylopfa> its a spellchecker
06:51 < zylopfa> automatically checking your spelling
06:51 <@preaction> hm... doesn't the HTMLArea already have spellcheck?
06:51 < zylopfa> and you can click what it suggested instead
06:51 <@preaction> or is this a better mousetrap?
06:51 < zylopfa> its a "as you type" spell checker
06:51 <@preaction> ahh
06:52 < zylopfa> which uses google to get the words right
06:52 <@preaction> heh, nice
06:52 < zylopfa> and it also suggest the right words
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18:25 < BartJol> morning
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18:46 <@rizen> morning
18:47 < BartJol> rizen, you know whether perlDreamer is coming today, I have a question about a bug he closed
18:48 <@rizen> i don't...but it's church day for him, so if he does come on it won't be for another couple hours at least
18:48 < BartJol> ok
18:48 < BartJol> there is a hardcoded template ID, which will bug me later
19:05 < zylopfa> I am submitting a bug for the PayDriver
19:06 < zylopfa> I can correct it myself but i want some feedbacks as to what i have discovered should be made like i suggest
19:12 < BartJol> well, give us an url
19:14 < zylopfa> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/8816
19:15 < zylopfa> tell me what you think
19:19 < BartJol> zylopfa: where does it get the PBS without USD, isn't the label broken?
19:20 < BartJol> maybe it is chopped of at the whitespace, not sure about that, but labels mostly don't contain spaces
19:26 < zylopfa> BartJol, the PBS is not the label, its the instance name
19:26 < zylopfa> thats the bug
19:27 < zylopfa> [EDIT] - PayDriverName
19:28 < BartJol> I'll have a better look
19:28 < zylopfa> this is the name of the driver class
19:28 < zylopfa> and not the name of the instance of the driver class
19:28 < BartJol> aah
19:29 < BartJol> I understand
19:29 < zylopfa> imo its a bug
19:29 < BartJol> yes, it is confusing
19:29 < zylopfa> cause many paydrivers can be configured in 1000 ways
19:30 < BartJol> strange, well, the label of the instance should be available in the loop I suppose
19:30 < zylopfa> BartJol, also when the custumer choose payment method
19:30 < zylopfa> its also the Class Name of the driver instead of the labe for the instance of it
19:31 < BartJol> I think it should be an easy fix...
19:31 < zylopfa> yeah i can fix it myself
19:31 < zylopfa> just wanted to know if some agreed with me on it
19:31 < BartJol> I do
19:31 < zylopfa> Awesome
19:32 < zylopfa> I have just finished a PayDriver for a Danish Payment Provider
19:32 < BartJol> oh, but then, do you agree with my bug?
19:32 < zylopfa> well i am laying the last hand on it
19:32 < BartJol> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/8801
19:32 < zylopfa> ler me check
19:33 < BartJol> especially the last comment
19:34 < zylopfa> yeah i just jumped off the chair from that one
19:34 < zylopfa> I have it just like you also, that i never edit the original templates
19:34 < zylopfa> i copy them off to my template directory for the site and change
19:34 < zylopfa> It is definately a bug
19:34 < BartJol> woohoo
19:36 < BartJol> even if it would take a database change instead of a gui setting, it already would be better
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19:36 < BartJol> but even that is awkward for normal users
19:36 < zylopfa> yeah indeed
19:37 < BartJol> but it wouldn't break during an upgrade, like changing the code would
19:39 < zylopfa> PBtmpl0userInviteEmail is hardcoded in?
19:39 < zylopfa> the asset id of the default template
19:39 < zylopfa> ?
19:39 < BartJol> no, it's nott the email template
19:39 < zylopfa> ohh
19:39 < BartJol> but if you want to change the userInvite form
19:40 < BartJol> you can't do that without
19:40 < BartJol> a changing a template original
19:40 < BartJol> or
19:40 < BartJol> b changing the code in Invite.pm
19:40 < zylopfa> damn, thats not good
19:42 < BartJol> stange thing is: the correct message is shown in the email the invitee receives
19:42 < zylopfa> PBtmpl00000userInvite1 hardcoded in the operation
19:42 < BartJol> bt when you are filling in the form, you see another one
19:42 < BartJol> yeah
19:42 < BartJol> that one
19:42 < BartJol> rule 76
19:42 < BartJol> of Operation/Invite.pm
19:43 < zylopfa> The admin,settings, user tab should be changed
19:43 < zylopfa> to ass a "Friend inbvite template" field
19:43 < zylopfa> to add even
19:43 < BartJol> :)
19:43 < zylopfa> I think its a bug
19:43 < BartJol> well, now I know that you don't use a dvorak keyboard
19:43 < zylopfa> Eventhough its an Operation, it should be templateable
19:43 < zylopfa> :D
19:44 < zylopfa> I am gonna comment on your ticket
19:45 < BartJol> yeah, when you make a template for it, it should be really templatable
19:45 < zylopfa> yeah instead of only editing the original
19:48 < zylopfa> BartJol, how do you find the template in the system? I mean if you are a normal user
19:48 < zylopfa> you wouldnt know where it is
19:49 < BartJol> no
19:49 < BartJol> I took me a while to find it
19:49 < BartJol> so I went looking in the code for the operation
19:50 < zylopfa> yeah good idea. After all its designers, that should be able to do this
19:51 < BartJol> well, first I just searched the asset tree and found the template
19:51 < BartJol> then I couldn't find where it was set or requested for
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19:51 < BartJol> then I went to the code
19:51 < zylopfa> its 2 or 3 new lines of code
19:52 < zylopfa> add a new property field to the users tab in the settings
19:52 < zylopfa> and change the operation to get that value 
19:52 < BartJol> but then it should also be set somewhere in the db
19:53 < zylopfa> wont that be automagical?
19:53 < BartJol> don't think so
19:53 < zylopfa> naa it wont
19:53 < zylopfa> well those 3 things then
19:53 < zylopfa> It is a bug
19:55 < BartJol> I gave you a smiley too
19:56 < zylopfa> awesome thanks a lot :D
20:06 < BartJol> so, now I'm going to tackle a much more complicated problem
20:07 < BartJol> "what to make for dinner"
20:07  * BartJol is going to cook
20:10 < zylopfa> haha yeah! good luck with it
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21:26 < zylopfa> Greetings!
21:29 < BartJol> hi
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21:46 < SquOnk> Hi everyone.
21:46 < zylopfa> Greetings SquOnk 
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22:39 < CIA-39> WebGUI: ernesto * r7928 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/LDAPLink.pm: (log message trimmed)
22:39 < CIA-39> WebGUI: Fixed validation so LDAPLink takes ldap:// and ldaps:// URIs.
22:39 < CIA-39> WebGUI: Net::LDAP does The Right Thing (tm) when given an ldaps:// URI
22:39 < CIA-39> WebGUI: provided the administrator has properly set up /etc/ldap/ldap.conf
22:39 < CIA-39> WebGUI: with the CA Cert signing the Server's certificate.
22:39 < CIA-39> WebGUI: Succesfully tested
22:39 < CIA-39> WebGUI: ldap://my.ldap.server/
23:21 < zylopfa> Is anyone on atm?
23:22 < zylopfa> I would like to ask how I can be assigned to fix a bug?
23:27 < BartJol> ooh
23:27 < BartJol> you will have to be with one of the plainblack dudes
23:31 < zylopfa> ahh ok thanks a lot :D
23:31 < BartJol> and I think the fix has to be posted to svn zylopfa, I don't think you have that rights
23:31 < zylopfa> no iguess not :D
23:31 < BartJol> so better is to post it in the report and sweetly ask whether they cabn commit it
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--- Day changed Mon Oct 13 2008
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00:13 < zylopfa> I am translating the danish i18n files :(
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00:46 < BartJol> zylopfa: succes!
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01:42 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7929 /translations/Danish/Danish/ (8 files): Update from translation server
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02:37 < elnino> hi. I just stopped spectre and modperl and modproxy. Did a ps-aux, and see abunch of h /data/wre/prereqs/bin/httpd -f /data/wre/ listed. Shouldn't those be "gone" from the process list?
02:50 <@preaction> probably
02:50 <@preaction> can you reach your site?
02:51 < elnino> oh,. I stil have it down. Trying to investigate between preparing dinner
02:51 < elnino> go this error: Apache2::SizeLimit httpd process too big,
02:51 < elnino> and this: server reached MaxClients setting,...
02:51 < elnino> and this BD::mysql::st execute failed: MySQL server has gone away at...
02:52 < elnino> all will no doubt keep me busy tonight. =(
02:53 < CIA-39> WebGUI: jt * r7930 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 3 dirs): 
02:53 < CIA-39> WebGUI: - Added a basic auth mechanism to WebGUI, which will allow WebGUI to handle
02:53 < CIA-39> WebGUI:  authenticated web service queries.
02:53 < elnino> those were in my modperl error log more intersting ones in my proxylog.
02:54 < elnino> one being: *** glibc detected *** double free or corruption (out): 0x008ae4f8 ***
02:54 < elnino> whatever that means.
02:54 <@preaction> something was trying to free memory that had already been freed
02:55 < elnino> that's doesn't sound good.
02:55 <@preaction> no, it's also rather difficult to do with Perl
02:57 < elnino> well. the first thing I did was look to see if my harddrive was full. It was at 37% capacity. So I'm doing well there, but cat /proc/meminfo didn't show much memory left. So I wonder what keeps going on on sundays?
02:58 < elnino> I don't expect you to answer that one. =)
02:58 < elnino> when does wremonitor start up? is it a "service" that I can start with wreservice?
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03:00 <@preaction> wremonitor is run from a cronjob, usually every 3 minutes
03:00 <@preaction> it checks on stuff, and then it quits
03:00 <@preaction> it's not a long-running process
03:00 < elnino> oh.that right.. ok.
03:04 < elnino> well. sites are back up.  Do you recommend anything that I can use to monitor memory usage?  and send periodic reports?
03:08 <@preaction> zabbix maybe?
03:10 < elnino> ok. I'll take a look at it. Thanks!
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03:40 < CIA-39> WebGUI: jt * r7931 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI.pm: made it basic auth work for browsers too rather than just mechanized requests
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04:29 < SquOnk> Hi
04:41 <+Radix-wrk> Hi SquOnk
04:42 < SquOnk> Radix-wrk: Hey
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07:31 < patspam> how does one upgrade a pre-7.4.21 site given that upgrade_7.4.21-7.5.0.pl is the oldest upgrade file in docs/upgrades?
07:34 < patspam> i guess i can just copy in upgrade files from old webgui versions
07:34 < elnino> patspam, I think what they did, is they mirrored all changes after 7.4.21 with a version 7.5.x 
07:35 < elnino> if that makes sense.
07:35 < patspam> hey elnino. my problem is that the site is 7.3.x!
07:35 < elnino> oh. good luck with that!  =)
07:35 < elnino> I thought I was bad with upgrading.
07:36 < patspam> heh
07:36 < patspam> not my site ;)
07:36 < elnino> I think they have older ones laying around.. let me look.
07:36 < patspam> yeah, I'm pulling them out of an earlier release
07:37 < elnino> http://update.webgui.org/7.x.x/ 
07:38 < elnino> or are those full versions?
07:38 <@preaction> patspam, bad! you have to upgrade to 7.4.0 first
07:38 <@preaction> then 7.4.21
07:38 <@preaction> then 7.5.x
07:38 < patspam> oh joy!
07:39 < patspam> preaction: do i need the full webgui release in place for each of those steps? e.g. does it rely on that version API? or can i just dump in all the relevant upgrade scripts?
07:39 <@preaction> full release
07:40  * patspam sulks
07:40 <@preaction> the gotchas should have more details
07:40 <@preaction> eh, that's what we get for adding things: the definition has properties the table doesn't, and then things go kabloooie
07:41 < patspam> heh yeah, it's fitting punishment for not upgrading sooner
07:41 < patspam> I'll add more details to gotcha.txt and the wiki once I'm done
08:11 < patspam> hmm JSON seems to be a problem
08:41 <+Radix-wrk> I had issues with JSON too
08:44 < patspam> 7.3.22-stable -> WebGUI_7.4.0-beta needed JSON 1.x
08:45 < patspam> but then WebGUI_7.4.0-beta -> WebGUI_7.4.21-stable needs JSON 2.x
08:45 < patspam> fun times
08:45 <+Radix-wrk> yeah, I managed to get 7.4.40 going on mine with the 0.8.5 wre
08:50 < elnino> yep, if you update to latest wre, it has all the prereqs otherwise you have to insatll everything mentioned in the gotchas.
08:50 < patspam> heh, yeah except that you have to force an install of JSON 1.x while you upgrade to 7.4.0, and then go back to JSON 2.x
09:05 <@preaction> blame JSON for that, not us man :(
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09:27 < elnino> rizen - I was wondering if you can point me to the pdfs from wuc2008, I'd like to find your optimization presentation.
09:28 <@preaction> elnino, http://plainblack.com/wuc/presentations i think
09:29 <@preaction> the Site Performance Tips
09:29 < elnino> great. Thanks!
09:38 < elnino> where should preload.exclude be created?
09:39 < elnino> never mind. found it.
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09:59 < elnino> so If I setup the preload.exclude, and I have four sites, and I use sqlreport in one site, but the rest of them I don't - and I comment it out in the site.conf file. Is that doin gme any good? In ortherwords, if I don't disable it, does it load four times?
10:07 < elnino> preactiion.. I have a question about the site performace tips, would you be able to help me understadn the pdf?
10:07 < elnino> well, clarify someting in the pdf...
10:09 < elnino> page 65, "number of used processes" - obviously by the example, it's not ALL processes, so which processes it that page referring to? or is that processORS - I seem to remember rizen talking about processORS 
10:14 < elnino> hey patspam, are you awake? I seem to remember you being at the site performance talk at wuc... 
10:20 < elnino> I see, I'm looking at http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/prefork.html
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15:59 < BartJol> hi bopbop, just out of curiosity, where did you need the screenshot for?
15:59 <@bopbop> to show internationalization capability on the wg features page
16:00 < BartJol> ah, cool
16:00 <@bopbop> yeah, I've been meaning to get a screenshot for ages now- thanks for your help
16:01 < BartJol> no, problem, but... you don't have dutch installed anywhere? strange :)
16:01 <@bopbop> :)
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16:45 <@perlmonkey2> G'morning everyone.
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16:49 < BartJol> goodmorning..
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16:57 < SquOnk> Hi
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17:15 < BartJol> zylopfa: whoa, you translated more than a percent yesterday! good job
17:16 < zylopfa> haahh yeha lol
17:16 < zylopfa> but it takes long alone
17:16 < BartJol> I know, that's why I am impressed
17:16 < zylopfa> taking a little each day
17:17 < zylopfa> Personally i like it best on english
17:17 < zylopfa> but my customers might now
17:17 < zylopfa> not evne
17:17 < zylopfa> even
17:17 < zylopfa> :D
17:18 < zylopfa> Danish is a very poor language when it comes to computer terms
17:18 < BartJol> same in dutch
17:18 < zylopfa> none computer guys wont even understand what the daish mean
17:18 < zylopfa> danish
17:18 < zylopfa> How do you translate "Cache" in dutch?
17:19 < BartJol> not :)
17:19 < zylopfa> I know what it is but its not to translate to danish
17:19 < BartJol> neither translate proxy or asset
17:20 < zylopfa> There is a reason that all book on computer science is in english at the danish university
17:20 < BartJol> sometiomes computer sentences don't even feel right in your own loanguage...
17:20 < zylopfa> haha yeah i feel the same
17:21 < zylopfa> I would have much harder to understand the danish translation than the english
17:21 < BartJol> and in the Netherlands most people do speak english, so I try to avoid making awkward translated dutch, and stick with english when necessary
17:22 < BartJol> can imagine that in Denmark it's the same
17:22 < zylopfa> yeah its the same
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17:31 < SquOnk> Has anyone tested the ldaps:// patch yet?
17:32 < zylopfa> not me :(
17:35 < zylopfa> I am upgrading my test servers now
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19:39 < zylopfa> :D
19:41 < zylopfa> 7.7% of danish translation done now :D
19:56 <+perlDreamer> w00t!
19:56 <+perlDreamer> zylopfa needs a translation team if he's going to catch up to the Spanish and Germans
19:56 < zylopfa> ahah now way
19:56 < zylopfa> no
19:57 < zylopfa> I am not counting on any one cause i know danish is poor in computer words
19:57 < zylopfa> and you have to know a lot of computer jargon to get it translated well
19:59 <@tavisto> nice job on the training preaction!
20:00 < zylopfa> Jesus, in these translations i have to also explain some terms cause they arent in danish
20:01 < zylopfa> like  "the date is in EPOCH format"
20:01 < zylopfa> Normal users seeing this Epoch thing wouldnt know what it is 
20:01 < CIA-39> WebGUI: colin * r7932 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Inbox/Message.pm): fix typo in sql for userId lookup, 8818
20:01 < CIA-39> WebGUI: jt * r7933 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Added the Asset Discovery web service content handler.
20:04 <@rizen> perlDreamer: this weekend i was trying to convince zylopfa to restart the Danish WebGUI users group.
20:04 <@rizen> that would give him some more translation help
20:04 < zylopfa> yeah rizen i will do it
20:05 < zylopfa> but I dont want some randoms to translate it if i have to correct all the errors after 
20:05 < zylopfa> But there are many other good things about restarting it
20:05 < zylopfa> as the danish webgui site is now no wonder no danish know about what it can do
20:06 < zylopfa> Webgui is about patience for the first month or so untill you know your way around the api. and then its payback the rest of the time working with it
20:09 < zylopfa> rizen, when can i correct errors i have found in webgui?
20:10 <+perlDreamer> zylopfa, please post them as bugs
20:11 < zylopfa> yeah i did
20:11 <+perlDreamer> Do you have patches to fix them, too?
20:11 < zylopfa> but i would also like to help with bugs some time
20:11 < zylopfa> i need feedback if some think its a bug
20:11 < zylopfa> BartJol did
20:12 <@rizen> zylopfa, it takes time to get commit access
20:12 <@rizen> for now post your patches
20:12 < zylopfa> yeah ofcourse rizen 
20:12 <@rizen> after we see your code quality
20:12 < zylopfa> yeah
20:12 < zylopfa> I have still much to learn
20:12 <@rizen> commit access is by invitation only
20:12 < zylopfa> I am in a learning phaze now writing some Payment drivers
20:15 <@rizen> you offered to write the Paypal plugin for the shop. If that's of high quality, it will go a long way toward getting you commit access.
20:15 < zylopfa> sweet rizen 
20:15 < zylopfa> I know a good deal about paypal payment
20:15 < zylopfa> and i even found many sites that have done it wrong
20:16 <@rizen> that's good, cuz i know virtually nothing about it, so i was going to have to learn it in order to write it this spring
20:16 <@rizen> you'll be saving me a crapload of time
20:16 < zylopfa> but you are pretty ace as it is
20:16 < zylopfa> I have to read the api for it again also but i thin i can do it
20:17 < zylopfa> I know the api for the webgui part now as i have made 1 payment driver
20:17 < zylopfa> + i remember most of the paypal api
20:17 < zylopfa> from earlier programming
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21:26 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7934 /translations/Spanish/Spanish/ (Asset_Folder.pm Asset_Sku.pm): Update from translation server
21:29 < zylopfa> rizen, do translation give any karma or is it just coding?
21:35 < SquOnk> Speaking of translations...
21:38 < zylopfa> Hit me!
21:38 < zylopfa> hah yeah spanish :D
21:38 < zylopfa> awesome
21:38 < zylopfa> I need to beat them to it
21:39 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@33.sub-75-207-112.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI
21:40 < SquOnk> We've got commitment from a customer. They'll be having half a dozen _web_ _designers_ checking if the translations make sense :-)
21:43 < SDuensin> I'm finally here!
21:45 <@rizen> nice job SquOnk
21:45 <@rizen> zylopfa: right now no karma for translation, but there is an RFE to make that happen
21:46 < SquOnk> rizen: Yeah. I'll be behind them with a whip ;-)
21:46 < zylopfa> I am soon on 10% on the danish one
21:46 < zylopfa> i done it all alone so far
21:46 < SDuensin> Hey!  WebGUI.tv - Awesome!
21:47 < zylopfa> yeah its awesome good
21:47 < zylopfa> things are realy happening on the site these days
21:47  * SDuensin loves WebGUI.
21:47 -!- BartJol [n=plainstu@52-167.surfsnel.dsl.internl.net] has joined #webgui
21:47  * zylopfa thinks its awesome
21:47 <@rizen> SDuensin...it appears that you may have a new contender for webgui fanboi
21:48 < zylopfa> Thats me rizen 
21:48 <@rizen> zylopfa is itching to take the title from you
21:48 < SDuensin> I'll rise to the occasion!
21:48 < zylopfa> yeah i love that system
21:48 < SDuensin> And soon - I announced that I'm gonna quit my job today.
21:48 < zylopfa> It was hard to dance with in the start, but the order it promote is awesome
21:49 < zylopfa> I once programmed a kind of framework for my perl websites in the old days
21:49 < zylopfa> but it was 0 compared to webgui
21:49  * SDuensin danced with 5.x.  6.x punched him in the face.  Now he's back with 7.x and loving it!
21:49 < zylopfa> haah awesome SDuensin !!
21:49 <@rizen> SDuensin: what will you do now that your' out of $dayjob
21:49 < zylopfa> I used it 4 years ago
21:49 < SDuensin> WebGUI!
21:49 < zylopfa> for a little bit
21:49 < SDuensin> What else?  Duh.
21:50 < SDuensin> :-)
21:50 < zylopfa> and then i was doing some other work
21:50 -!- wgGuest38 [n=wgGuest3@82-169-44-69.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #webgui
21:50 -!- wgGuest38 [n=wgGuest3@82-169-44-69.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Client Quit]
21:50 < zylopfa> and then i came back to it a year ago again
21:50 <@rizen> SD, professionally?
21:50 <@rizen> or just for fun
21:50 < SDuensin> rizen - Going to try.
21:50 <@rizen> nice dood
21:50 <@rizen> let me know if i can help
21:50 < zylopfa> Now i am a hoster of webgui sites and developer / designer of them 
21:50 < BartJol> pb needs more people?
21:50 < SDuensin> I'm going to take a lot of the automation I worked out for CloudCircle and apply it to WebGUI.
21:50 < SDuensin> rizen - Sure, mail me bags of money.
21:50 < zylopfa> haha SDuensin 
21:50 < SDuensin> And get Gooey back in stock!  I want a stuffed Gooey!
21:51 < BartJol> dollars? they ain't worth crap
21:51 <@rizen> gooey is in stock
21:51 < zylopfa> Working on webgui is considered "Hours of personal interest" and is not payable in cash.
21:51 < BartJol> SDuensin: we have a box full
21:51 < zylopfa> ;D
21:51 < SDuensin> ACK!
21:51 <@rizen> bartjol: but you paid for that box full
21:51  * SDuensin will have to get back on the store!
21:51 < BartJol> and he can pay us
21:52 < zylopfa> I am gonna get webguis also
21:52 < BartJol> just go to the wuc, you'll get one
21:52 < zylopfa> Being happy about webgui, I have turned evil towards all other CMS systems
21:52 <@rizen> i have to order a few thousand more though
21:52 <@rizen> i think we only still have about 700 at the warehouse
21:53 < zylopfa> ahah sick rizen 
21:53 < BartJol> rizen uses it as mattres filling
21:53  * rizen appreciates zylopfa's enthusiasm
21:53 < BartJol> yeah, and more translations! go zylopha!
21:54 < zylopfa> haha yeah BartJol !
21:54 < zylopfa> I am getting to 10%
21:54 < BartJol> damn serious competition :)
21:55 < SDuensin> I'm wanting to do my sites and help Plainblack a tad in the process.  I plan on charging enough to leave a complete set of printed docs with the client.
21:55 < zylopfa> haah nice SDuensin 
21:56 < SDuensin> How many web developers leave frikkin' docs when they're done?
21:56 < zylopfa> I bought the developers guide
21:56 < zylopfa> and i am so happy with it
21:56 < BartJol> that was what I forgot when leaving the office
21:56 < zylopfa> haha :D
21:57 < BartJol> wanted to program my own rfe..
21:57 < zylopfa> sweet what one BartJol ?
21:57 < BartJol> the leave version tag link
21:58 < SDuensin> rizen - Dunno what Plainblack can do to help me.  If you have ideas for partnering or whatever, lemme know.  Problem is, I'm one of those evil guys who does hosting as well.
21:58 < BartJol> I added the operation, but the method it tries to call isn't called properly
21:59 < zylopfa> SDuensin, welcome to evil guys. I host also :D
22:00 < SDuensin> hehehe
22:00 < zylopfa> ahh nice :D
22:00 < BartJol> perlDreamer: I reopend the bug you closed, do you agree with the way I formulated it?
22:00 < SDuensin> I looked at hosting with PB.  But I like to hack around (read: break) on WebGUI.
22:00 <@rizen> SDuensin: doing hosting isn't evil
22:00 < BartJol> only koen is evil
22:00 < SDuensin> BartJol - hehe
22:01 <@rizen> koen is sooooo evil
22:01 < SDuensin> rizen - Well, it competes with you.  I want to *help* you!
22:01 <@rizen> worry about yourself first
22:01 <@rizen> just having you in business helps me
22:01 < SDuensin> :-)
22:01 < zylopfa> Speaking of translations (before), koen means "the cow" in danish :D
22:01 < SDuensin> Well, you guys ROCK.  Even you, rizen.
22:02  * SDuensin just received an error that there is a syntax error in the template on https://www.plainblack.com/store/merchandise
22:02 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7935 /translations/Spanish/ (Spanish/Asset_Folder.pm notes.txt): Update from translation server
22:03 < BartJol> zylopfa: thanks for that usefull information
22:03 < zylopfa> Any time BartJol !
22:06 <@rizen> zylopfa what is your webgui.org username?
22:06 < zylopfa> titlandata
22:10 < SDuensin> Uh, rizen, am I supposed to be allowed to buy Gooey with just my Karma?
22:12  * SDuensin is gonna say "no" since his karma is now -1001.
22:13 <@rizen> SD yes
22:13 <@rizen> what?
22:13 < SDuensin> Yea.  Apparently I spent karma I didn't have.
22:13 < BartJol> you are allowed to pay with money right?
22:13 < SDuensin> How much karma is Gooey?  I only had like 400-something.
22:13 <@rizen> you shouldn't be able to do it unless you have enough karma
22:13 <@rizen> 1500
22:13 < SDuensin> Yea.  Oops.
22:15 < SDuensin> If you can un-do it, I'll come back with cash.  :_)
22:24 < BartJol> woohoo, second step seems to work
22:26 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7936 /translations/Spanish/ (Spanish/AdSpace.pm notes.txt): Update from translation server
22:26 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7937 /translations/Spanish/ (Spanish/AdminConsole.pm notes.txt): Update from translation server
22:28 < zylopfa> damn those spanatians ;D
22:31 < BartJol> mm, my new table is better for couch programming
22:32 < SDuensin> I can't do couch programming anymore.  It turns into couch sleeping.
22:37 -!- rjholtz [n=spam@68-20-202-162.ded.ameritech.net] has joined #webgui
22:38 < rjholtz> Hello!
22:39 -!- khenn_ [n=khenn@97.92.186.139] has joined #WebGUI
22:41 < BartJol> rjholtz: hi
22:41 < rjholtz> I hope someone might be around to answer a quick question.  I tried searching for an app that can be a upload/download page, kind of like an FTP site, but couldn't find anything
22:41 < rjholtz> Hi BartJol
22:41 < BartJol> well, you can just use a folder
22:42 <@rizen> there it's fixed 
22:42 < SDuensin> Whoo!
22:42  * SDuensin will try not to break anything else today.
22:42 <@rizen> SD, you'll just be in the hole with karma for a while
22:42 <@rizen> =)
22:42 < rjholtz> Just create a folder and users can login to upload and download to?
22:42 <@rizen> i trust that you'll earn it back eventually
22:42 < SDuensin> Hey, that's my usual position.
22:43  * SDuensin is off to buy another Gooey!
22:43 < BartJol> yeah, only thing is that maybe, if they can upload, they might be able to delete
22:43 < SDuensin> (With real money this time!)
22:44 < BartJol> SDuensin: wanna borrow some karma, I have a ridiculous interest rate, but you won't be negative
22:44 < rjholtz> hmm, yeah.  I'll have to work out permissions issues.
22:44 < rjholtz> it will be a rarely used page, but just if we need to let someone access a file outside our company that is larger than 10MB (Mail limit) or if someone needs to get a file to us.
22:46 < BartJol> well, don't make a security hole, but if it is with trusted people only, just add them to a group that can edit the content of the folder
22:50 < rjholtz> sounds good I'll try that BartJol
22:50 < rjholtz> Thanks!
22:50 < BartJol> I hope it works out
22:51 < BartJol> don't forget to set the max upload setting to your linkings
22:51 < BartJol> likings
22:52 < BartJol> perlDreamer?
22:54 <@tavisto> rjholtz, I haven't seen you around here before. Which organization do you work with that uses WebGUI?
22:55 < BartJol> ah, management kicks in
22:55 <@tavisto> yep, BartJol you're fired.
22:55 <@tavisto> er wait.. no that was Koen
22:55 -!- khenn [n=khenn@97.92.186.139] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
22:58 < rjholtz> I work at Midwest Heart Specialists
22:58 < SDuensin> How midwest?  I'm in St. Louis.
22:58 < BartJol> you fire Koen?
22:59 <@bopbop> rjholtz: are you Becky, the designer?
22:59 <@perlmonkey2> BartJol: Yes, but he is hired back at double half his salary.
22:59 < rjholtz> MHS is in Chicago Western 'burbs
22:59 <@tavisto> rjholtz: cool, we're actually interested in doing a WebGUI success story at some point in the near future with your organization
22:59 < SDuensin> rjholtz - Ah, same state as me, wrong end.  :-)
23:00 < rjholtz> no, I am one of the Net Admins, Becky was a designer from the company we hired to do the site
23:00 <@bopbop> ah, ok
23:00 < rjholtz> Tavisto, have you spoken with our Director of IT, Paul?
23:00 <@tavisto> no, my next question was to ask for a point of contact :)
23:01 < rjholtz> I don't know if he would want me to put his name and number here on IRC... but I can tell him that you are looking to contact him.
23:02 <@tavisto> no problem. I was just informed that we do have his contact info so I'll drop him a line
23:02 < rjholtz> ok cool.
23:02 < BartJol> tavistos email is metro@plainblack.com
23:02 < BartJol> sorry Tavis
23:02 <@tavisto> lol nice
23:03 < BartJol> it's late and then my awfull sense of humour kicks in
23:03 <@tavisto> I'll bet JT is setting up that email account right as we speak.
23:03 < rjholtz> inside joke I'm guessing?
23:03 < BartJol> yup
23:04 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7936 /translations/Spanish/ (Spanish/AdSpace.pm notes.txt): Update from translation server
23:04 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7937 /translations/Spanish/ (Spanish/AdminConsole.pm notes.txt): Update from translation server
23:04 < CIA-39> WebGUI: jt * r7938 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/packages-7.6.1/default_product.wgpkg: fixing borked template
23:04 < BartJol> we are just jealous that Tavis is pretty and we are all nerdy guys with glasses
23:04 <@tavisto> just cuz a guy has a little bit of style.. gotta call him metro.. cmon
23:04 < rjholtz> hahaha
23:05 < rjholtz> I'm on the nerdy guys with glasses side myself... haha
23:05 <@tavisto> well Bart, you're obviously pretty too since you are Sarah's dutch boyfriend
23:05 <@bopbop> but he does have glasses, and uses less hair product
23:06 <@tavisto> yeah but he has something very unfair...
23:06 <@tavisto> an accent.
23:06 <@bopbop> so true
23:06 < BartJol> mwoahaha
23:06 <@tavisto> ;)
23:06 < BartJol> but even with that she dumped me
23:07 <@tavisto> that's because SHE had the same accent. The magic doesn't work then
23:07 <@tavisto> oh wait you are saying sarah
23:07 <@tavisto> nm
23:07 < BartJol> who were you referring to, my other ex?
23:08 <@tavisto> yeah, she was dutch right?
23:08 < BartJol> have you met her?
23:08 < topsub> on the beta.webgui.org how can i recover a password? the url i have doesn't work for beta
23:08 < topsub> ?op=auth;method=recoverPassword
23:08 < topsub> Can it be disabled?
23:08 < BartJol> she speaks Brabants, which is a bit similar to Dutch, but the accent is different
23:09 < BartJol> topsub: yeah
23:09 < BartJol> in the settings
23:09 <@tavisto> yeah I met her. You deflated her and brought her over to last year's wuc. We had to pump her back up with JT's air pump remember?
23:09 <@tavisto> :)
23:09 < SDuensin> heheh
23:09 <@tavisto> muwhahaha! back at you bart.
23:09 < BartJol> well, last year I did have a picture of her in my presentation
23:09 < BartJol> damn
23:10 < BartJol> well I'll let it simmer, but then my revenge will be horendous
23:10 <@tavisto> haha
23:11 < BartJol> wait till you get here in the Netherlands
23:11 < BartJol> are you joining with Sarah btw?
23:11 < topsub> believe i found a bug with the password recover template.. Posting a bug about it
23:13 <@tavisto> my goal is to get over to your neck of the woods first quarter next year
23:14 <@tavisto> I don't know about Sarah going over there. Unless you are talking about when JT and Sarah go to Portugal for the YAPC event
23:14 < BartJol> ah, that's sooner then Sarah
23:14 < BartJol> not afaik
23:15 < BartJol> she will be here with to friends
23:15 < BartJol> s/to/two
23:15 <@tavisto> that's cool. Hmm.. I'll have to talk with her and find out when they are going
23:16 < BartJol> you'll be travelling with 3 girls!
23:16 < topsub> tavisto!!
23:16 < BartJol> I don't know whther that's a wet dream or horror
23:16 <@tavisto> hey topsub, what's up
23:16 < rjholtz> Is there a content that I can place on a page that will allow a logged in user to upload a file, but not turn admin on?
23:17 <@tavisto> yeah, you can use the collaboration system for that
23:17 < rjholtz> hmm ok
23:17 <@tavisto> the add link is in the CS so you can configure permissions at the asset level and not have to deal with admin on permissions
23:18 <@tavisto> you can also do the same to the folder I believe
23:18 < rjholtz> I havn't dealt with that yet... basically, end result (i should have started with this): User logs in, can either download a file from a list that is shown, or upload a file.
23:19 < rjholtz> and the collaboration system would do that?
23:19 <@tavisto> Yes it can be used that way
23:20 < rjholtz> thanks, I'll look into that
23:20 <@tavisto> you'll want to use the CS with the CS template of Default USS
23:20 <@tavisto> User submission system
23:20 <@rizen> SDuensin: you really want 2 gooey dolls?
23:20 < rjholtz> CS?
23:20 <@tavisto> Collaboration System
23:21 < rjholtz> duh... 
23:21 <@tavisto> no worries, you'll start speaking wG (webgui) in no time :)
23:22 < SDuensin> No.  The first one was my bad Karma purchase.  Then I bought one with real money.
23:22 < SDuensin> I don't have the karma to buy one, and you don't need to send me a free one.  :-)
23:22 <@rizen> i can either send you two, or refund your karma for one, which do you prefer?
23:22 < SDuensin> Karma, please.  I just need one critter.
23:22 <@rizen> as far as PB is concerned, you have paid for both
23:22 < SDuensin> Thanks.
23:22 <@rizen> ok
23:23  * SDuensin should have bought *everything* and *then* reported the bug!
23:23 < Mech422> Whee! time to order my wG books ! :-D
23:24 -!- topsub [n=josh@97.66.185.250] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:25 < BartJol> strange, it looks like my site commited my versiontag automativcally
23:25 < BartJol> now I do am fooling around with VersionTag.pm, I hope that is not the result
23:37 < SDuensin> Ok, my battery is gonna die.  Logging off until I get home!
23:37 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@33.sub-75-207-112.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:40 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7939 /translations/Spanish/Spanish/Asset.pm: Update from translation server
23:40 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7940 /translations/Danish/ (8 files in 2 dirs): Update from translation server
23:40 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7941 /translations/Spanish/Spanish/Asset.pm: Update from translation server
23:44 <+perlDreamer> BartJol, I'm back now.  What's up?
23:44 < BartJol> ah
23:44 < BartJol> eeeh
23:44 < BartJol> o yeah
23:44 < BartJol> two things, I found some more missing i18n
23:44 < BartJol> already posted that in an earlier bug
23:44 < BartJol> but
23:45 < BartJol> I reformulated the invite a friend template thingy and was wondering whether you might consider it a bug
23:45 < BartJol> http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/8801
23:46 < rjholtz> Thanks guys for the help! Tavisto, I'll let Paul know PB was going to contact him.
23:46 < rjholtz> exit
23:46 < BartJol> because your solution wasn't really possible to do it pretty
23:46 < rjholtz> quit
23:46 <@tavisto> great!
23:46 < rjholtz> damn  I'll just close the window.
23:46 <@tavisto> hehe
23:46 < BartJol> bye rjholtz
23:46 <@tavisto> ttyl rjholtz
23:46 <+perlDreamer> BartJol: whether it's a bug or not would be PB's call.
23:46 -!- rjholtz [n=spam@68-20-202-162.ded.ameritech.net] has quit []
23:47 < BartJol> oh, ok
23:47 < BartJol> oh, I thought you might something to say, as you considered it first as not a bug
23:48 < BartJol> but, beside that, do you agree?
23:50 < zylopfa> perlDreamer, why is it only the Spanish translation thag gets announced?
23:50 < BartJol> do you commit to svn?
23:51 < zylopfa> yeah
23:51 < zylopfa> I am on 11.3% now
23:51 < BartJol> strange, it should come up
23:51 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@h19-afsc.ded.indra.com] has quit []
23:51 < BartJol> maybe with a delay, I don't see the colombians that do most of the spanish translation
23:52 < BartJol> I noticed some delays when I commit
23:52 <+perlDreamer> The SVN bot is slow
23:52 <+perlDreamer> very very slow
23:53 <+perlDreamer> BartJol, sometimes my head is still stuck back before we templated everything
23:53 < BartJol> svn bot drinks a lot of spotted cows
23:53 <+perlDreamer> but since it is user facing, it should be templated.
23:53 < BartJol> ok
23:54 < BartJol> just thinking how to tackle it in the meantime
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23:55 < BartJol> copying and editing prevents breaking during updates
23:56 < BartJol> the template that is
23:56 < BartJol> editing the original template even
23:56 < zylopfa> perlDreamer, its very smart the way translations are managed imo
--- Day changed Tue Oct 14 2008
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00:05 <+perlDreamer> rizen: Does the broken product template need to be backported to 7.5?
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00:14 -!- mode/#webgui [+v snapcount] by ChanServ
00:22 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7942 /translations/Danish/Danish/Asset_Collaboration.pm: Update from translation server
00:22 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7943 /translations/Spanish/Spanish/Asset.pm: Update from translation server
00:22 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7944 /translations/Spanish/Spanish/Asset.pm: Update from translation server
00:23 <+perlDreamer> zylopfa, see, there's some Danish translation for ya.
00:23 < zylopfa> ahah yeah awesome!
00:24 < BartJol> oh and zylopfa, when you commit to svn try to check whether there are namespaces where you didn't do anything
00:24 < BartJol> I had it once that someone was fooling around with it
00:24 < zylopfa> What do you mean BartJol ?
00:24 <@Haarg> perlDreamer, looks like the 7.5 product template is fine
00:24 < BartJol> there were some porn links in it
00:24 < zylopfa> checking that no one has tampered with my translations?
00:24 < zylopfa> ahh yeah
00:24 < BartJol> it rare, but it can happen
00:25 < zylopfa> yeah there are always some autobots crawling and spitting in shit on forms everywhere
00:25 < SquOnk> Most of the spanish translation isn't "spanishy" enough :-)
00:25 < BartJol> a quick check should be enough
00:25 < zylopfa> damn it
00:26 < BartJol> SquOnk: ?
00:26 < SquOnk> BartJol: Some messages look like they were translated with Babelfish or something alike :-)
00:26 < BartJol> ah
00:26 < zylopfa> hahaha
00:26 < SquOnk> BartJol: And there's some inconsistencies
00:26 < zylopfa> I use a lot of time on my translations
00:26 < zylopfa> I build up a little dictionary also
00:26 < SquOnk> BartJol: I started rechecking everything.
00:27 < BartJol> a, my spanish isn't good enough to spot that
00:27 <@rizen> perlDreamer: i didn't test...perhaps it does
00:28 < zylopfa> Can I ask you guys something about payment gateways?
00:28 <@rizen> no
00:28 < zylopfa> good, here goes
00:28 < zylopfa> ;D
00:28 < zylopfa> The payment gw provider i use in denmark, has no control of recurring payment
00:28 < zylopfa> they provide it
00:29 < zylopfa> but you have to send requests to get the cash from the customers card yourself
00:29 < zylopfa> whenever you have agreed with the customer
00:29 < zylopfa> So in essence you have a carte-blanche to draw from the customer
00:29 < zylopfa> Ofc its illegal, but isn't it a bit unsecure?
00:30 <@rizen> ofc?
00:30 < zylopfa> Imo the gateway thing should make the calls for withdrawing subscription money itelf
00:30 <+snapcount> oversized French Unicycle?
00:30 < zylopfa> not the shop owner
00:30 <@rizen> Yes, all good gateways do a callback to the shop system
00:31 <@rizen> rather than the shop system doing a call to the gateway for recurring
00:31 < zylopfa> yeah rizen this one do to for the initial transaction
00:31 <@rizen> otherwise you end up storing personal info about the user at the shop
00:31 < zylopfa> but subsequent ones are done by the users system
00:31 <@rizen> and that's a security nightmare
00:31 < zylopfa> rizen, nothing is stored on my system
00:31 < zylopfa> i have the transaction code
00:31 < BartJol> snapcount: ontario fried chicken
00:31 < zylopfa> which i post to the gw
00:31 < zylopfa> and then it draw from teh card
00:32 <@rizen> zylopfa: with that transaction code, you can draw from the card though, right?
00:32 < zylopfa> yeah indeed
00:32 <+snapcount> BartJol: was wondering if anyone remembered this game =D
00:32 <@rizen> so then isn't it as good as a credit card number?
00:32 < zylopfa> No cause you can only get the payment to the preconfigered bank account
00:32 <@rizen> ah
00:32 <@rizen> ok then
00:32 < zylopfa> but anyway
00:33 < zylopfa> still it leaves me with more control of the recurring settings
00:33 < BartJol> snapcount: sure, maybe it should be an aftersession activity at the wuc
00:33 < zylopfa> so i can say better "3 days free" next 14 is $20 and next month is 15 or so
00:33 <@rizen> not really, because webgui still limits you to a certain number of recurrence types
00:33 < zylopfa> well you can on paypal also
00:33 < zylopfa> but all this data has to go in your buttons
00:34 < zylopfa> rizen, isn't that the PayDriver who decides that?
00:34 <@rizen> no
00:34 <@rizen> the subscription asset for example
00:34 <@rizen> knows nothing of the pay driver
00:34 < zylopfa> what about sku's
00:34 <@rizen> but in the properties you get to select if it's a monthly or annual recurring transaction
00:34 <@rizen> subscription is a sku
00:35 < zylopfa> yeah so i can subclass it and make my own?
00:35 <@rizen> sure you could write your own plugins to circumvent that
00:35 < zylopfa> and that again is what i love about webgui
00:35 <@rizen> but then you will never be able to use anybody else's payment gateways
00:35 <@rizen> and if we make changes to our api's it may break yours because you're not following the core rules
00:35 < zylopfa> rizen, yeah i can but not for that sku
00:35 <+snapcount> BartJol: Onion Flavored Calamari 
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00:36 < zylopfa> ohh ok rizen 
00:36 < zylopfa> Well i will try to stay within those limits then
00:36 < zylopfa> its not all payment gws that let the shopmaster handle the recurring anyway
00:36 < BartJol> snapcount: oreo filled cow
00:36 < zylopfa> they do it "on site"
00:36 < zylopfa> and post info back
00:36 <+perlDreamer> Optional Flatulance Control
00:37 <+perlDreamer> Orthogonal Fluidic Circulation
00:37 < zylopfa> haah its Ofcourse
00:37 < zylopfa> you silly cow perlDreamer 
00:39 < zylopfa> I am gonna create a wobject to control a nuclear powerplant :D
00:40 <+snapcount> perlDreamer: lmao
00:40 <+snapcount> nice one
00:40 <+perlDreamer> It helps to be widely read
00:40 -!- dionak [n=dionak@97.66.185.250] has quit []
00:40 < BartJol> with a random "oops I pushed that red button" functionality?
00:41 < zylopfa> haha yeah BartJol 
00:41 < BartJol> mm, denmark, that's awfully close
00:41 < zylopfa> and then it should send out email messages to people subscribing to "core meltdown" messages
00:41 < zylopfa> when it goes haywirre
00:41 < BartJol> or are you in greenland?
00:42 < zylopfa> No i am on the little land north of germany
00:42 < BartJol> I just north of the nordostsee k=vhannel
00:42 < BartJol> channel?
00:42 < BartJol> arg
00:42 < zylopfa> sweet, thats not very far
00:42 < BartJol> my typing is awfull
00:43 < BartJol> s/I/ah/
00:43 < BartJol> I live in the Netherlands
00:43 < zylopfa> Sweet
00:43 < zylopfa> I can say one thing in nederlands
00:43 < BartJol> but I crossed the channel last year
00:43 < zylopfa> Ik hou van koeien!
00:43 < BartJol> gebakken of in de wei?
00:44 < zylopfa> in de wei
00:45 < zylopfa> but also cooked
00:45 < BartJol> so actually you live 1 day driving from me
00:46 <+perlDreamer> The EuroWUC is reborn!
00:46 < zylopfa> sweet
00:46 < zylopfa> YES!
00:46 < BartJol> two germans, a danish guy and 14 dutchies :)
00:46 <+perlDreamer> Now all you guys have to do is find a venue and some speakers
00:46 < zylopfa> I lost hope for the danes when they don't maintain webgui.dk
00:46 < zylopfa> i bet its cause i dont run on windows
00:47 < zylopfa> all their posts is about "when will it work again on windows"
00:47 <+perlDreamer> It runs on windows now
00:47 < zylopfa> yeah but they are still on 6.something
00:47 <+perlDreamer> You need some auxiliary software though
00:47 <+perlDreamer> It's called VMWare
00:47 <+perlDreamer> :)
00:47 < zylopfa> ahh yeah
00:48 < zylopfa> I am one of those kinds that only run linux anyway 
00:48 < BartJol> maybe you can take over the site
00:48 < zylopfa> yeah!
00:48 < zylopfa> I am gonna ask them
00:48 < zylopfa> its some competitor that own it i think
00:48 < zylopfa> some that also sell webservices and webdesign etc.
00:48 < BartJol> you should work together
00:49 < zylopfa> yeah but i need more enthusiasm than a site running windows with webgui 6.something
00:49 < BartJol> like the dutchies, follow the "poldermodel"
00:49 < zylopfa> whats that model?
00:49 < BartJol> lets check whether a wikipedia page exist on it
00:49 < zylopfa> ok
00:50 < BartJol> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polder_Model
00:50 <+snapcount> anyone interested in the webgui.us domain?
00:50 <+snapcount> I am willing to gift it for community goodness
00:51 <+snapcount> even host if you want
00:51 <+snapcount> I had plans for it but the fact of the matter is I'm lazy
00:51 <+snapcount> I guess I could post those to etcectera
00:52 < zylopfa> sweet snapcount 
00:52 <+snapcount> my original plan was to do a viral marketing campaign for WebGUI
00:52 < zylopfa> I am gonna take over the danish one i think
00:52 <+snapcount> cuz coding is hard
00:52 <+snapcount> and I'm lazy
00:52 <+snapcount> the theme being "WebGUI Us"
00:52 <+snapcount> like you've been marked
00:52 < zylopfa> ahhh nice
00:53 <+snapcount> and be a huge collection of crazy webgui sites
00:53 <+snapcount> or places where Gooey has been
00:53 < zylopfa> haha awesomeness
00:53 < zylopfa> snapcount, the thing i dont like about many of my competitors in denmark
00:53 <+snapcount> kind of a rip off of specific pages on webgui.org
00:53 < zylopfa> is that i can see that they made their sites in a cms system
00:53 <+snapcount> but if it promotes it's a win for community
00:53 < zylopfa> in webgui you dont have that problem
00:53 <+snapcount> indeed
00:53 < zylopfa> unless you are lazy to change templates
00:54 -!- patspam [n=patspam@ppp59-167-65-225.lns1.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #webgui
00:54 <+snapcount> or you know how the M$ ads are all about " I'm a PC and I went to Mars and missed b/c some asshat forgot to convert from metric"
00:55 <+snapcount> I'm a WebGUI site, WebGUI for US
00:55 <+snapcount> instead of it being a U.S. site
00:55 <+snapcount> b/c webgui.org is that already
00:55 <+snapcount> I dunno...
00:55 < zylopfa> snapcount, if the mars explorers ran windows, I always envision their control tower
00:56 < zylopfa> "FFSS now we need someone to go up there and restart it again"
00:56 <+snapcount> hahah
00:56 <+snapcount> Dan put your space suit on... time for the reboot
00:56 < zylopfa> haha yeah!
00:56 < BartJol> you can do without oxygen for 15 minutes, right?
00:56 < zylopfa> hahaah 
00:56 < zylopfa> :D
00:57 <+snapcount> or another idea could be to promote the community it's self
00:57 <+snapcount> "us" being people instead of websites
00:57 < zylopfa> ahah yeah
00:57 <+snapcount> people, companies, etc
00:57 < BartJol> snapcount: would you sell gooey underwear? jt refuses?
00:57 <+snapcount> but it would have to be really crazy somehow to make people go, "what the hell is this"
00:58 -!- topsub [n=josh@cpe-069-132-181-160.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui
00:58 < zylopfa> problem with excecutives that deside what cms system to use is their ignorance
00:58 <+snapcount> some kind of secret insignia
00:58 <+snapcount> what ever
00:58 < zylopfa> IT HAS TO RUN .NET CAUSE I SAW IT IN AN ADD IN THE NEW YORK TIMES
00:58 < BartJol> snapcount: and WebGUI games
00:58 <+snapcount> only if their those edible undies
00:58 <+snapcount> ok maybe not
00:58 <+snapcount> yep have to nix the undies
00:59 <+snapcount> made me uncomfortable =P
00:59 <+snapcount> BartJol: there you go
00:59 < BartJol> mmm, maybe I can make them form cottoned candy
00:59 <+snapcount> I should ask our marketing peeps
00:59 <+snapcount> we have a whole room full of them that do viral stuff
01:00 < BartJol> cool
01:02 <+snapcount> maybe we could start making mini movies that starred a gooey doll
01:02 <+snapcount> like 15 second shorts that are utterly ridiculous
01:02 <+snapcount> but funny and memorable
01:02 < BartJol> that sounds cool
01:03 <+snapcount> I'm thinking Adult Swim style
01:03 <+snapcount> get that on Digg a few times it would at least raise awareness
01:03 < BartJol> maybe a selection of the coolest remarks in irc
01:03 <+snapcount> Hah... a memorable quotes section
01:03 <+snapcount> yeah that's good
01:03 <+snapcount> there have been some good ones
01:04 < BartJol> oh robot chicken!
01:04 <+snapcount> yeah
01:04 <+snapcount> that kind of "feel"
01:05 <+snapcount> damn it
01:06 <+snapcount> now you guys are getting me all motivated
01:06 <+snapcount> I might actually do this now
01:06 <+snapcount> lol
01:06 <+snapcount> we could make it where anyone can upload the vids
01:07 <+snapcount> complete, shameless promotion of WebGUI
01:07 < BartJol> oh, you know the book of suiscide bunnies?
01:07 <+snapcount> link?
01:08 < BartJol> http://city.tomsk.net/~alisher/shared/bunnies/
01:08 < BartJol> but with gooeys and more nerdy
01:08 <+perlDreamer> snapcount, before we do viral marketing, we should complete our take over of Papa John's website.
01:09 <+snapcount> haha
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01:09 <+snapcount> I can't believe you remember that
01:09 <+snapcount> man that was a while ago
01:09 <+snapcount> diabolical plan numero uno
01:09 <+snapcount> BartJol: I can't stand to kill Gooey
01:09 <+snapcount> those comics are disturbingly funny though
01:09 < BartJol> gooey homicides?
01:10 <+snapcount> gooey could be a crazed destroyer of crappy websites
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01:11 < zylopfa> I am writing to the owner of the webgui.dk site now
01:12 < zylopfa> I am basically persuading him to hand over the domain name for a resonable low price
01:12 < zylopfa> and if he denies, i will buy another domain for it 
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01:13 < BartJol> I already see a "Dutch gooey" pictue
01:13 < BartJol> only have to make it
01:15 <+perlDreamer> snapcount, I also remember to feed your trout with the crikets.
01:15 < BartJol> but Papa John?
01:15 <+snapcount> someone should do a Gooey characture of Martin's PBWG photo
01:15 <+snapcount> that could be the Dutch logo =)
01:16 < BartJol> refresh my memory
01:16 -!- SnowWrite [n=chatzill@dsl081-052-015.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #webgui
01:16 <+perlDreamer> BartJol: The evil looknig one where he's chewing on a cigar.
01:16 < BartJol> aaah, that one
01:17 <+snapcount> http://www.webgui.org/uploads/R3/y9/R3y9fUXrq_REG9rmo6TqlQ/martin.png
01:17 <+snapcount> James Bond Gooey
01:17 <+snapcount> if only I had creative talent
01:17 <+snapcount> crap I have to go to dance lessons
01:18 <+snapcount> bbl
01:18 <+perlDreamer> This is cool: http://www.extremetech.com/slideshow_viewer/0,2849,l%253D%2526a%253D232928%2526po%253D2,00.asp?p=y
01:19 < BartJol> looks noisy
01:19 < BartJol> but cool
01:21 < zylopfa> do you think these guys will hand over the webgui.dk domain name to me?
01:21 < BartJol> dunno, I don't know them
01:22 < zylopfa> I told them it seems to be not very updated and that the community needs a site which is up to speed with the webgui development
01:22 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7945 /translations/Spanish/Spanish/Asset.pm: Update from translation server
01:22 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7946 /translations/Spanish/Spanish/ (Asset.pm Asset_Article.pm): Update from translation server
01:22 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7947 /translations/Spanish/Spanish/Asset_Article.pm: Update from translation server
01:22 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7948 /translations/Spanish/Spanish/Asset_Article.pm: Update from translation server
01:22 < CIA-39> WebGUI: translation * r7949 /translations/Spanish/Spanish/Asset_Article.pm: Update from translation server
01:22  * SnowWrite wonders if it's appropriate to have a webguigirls.com
01:22  * SnowWrite ponders
01:22 < BartJol> well, you have to be a bit nice
01:22 < zylopfa> yeah i know their egos might be crushed
01:23 < zylopfa> when i subtlely tell them that they basically suck at making something out of it
01:23 < zylopfa> well i use nice wording
01:23 < zylopfa> but i bet they smell money when i want to get the domain name
01:23 <+perlDreamer> "Hey, doodz.  Your site sucks.  Give it to me."
01:23 < BartJol> yeah, or you give them a wakeup call
01:23 < zylopfa> BartJol, they are beyond wakeup calls
01:23 < zylopfa> then they have to learn linux first
01:24 < BartJol> :)
01:24 < zylopfa> they only host windows
01:24 < zylopfa> I am just buying another domain for it if they refuse
01:24 < zylopfa> no biggie there
01:24 < zylopfa> www.theofficialdanishwebguisite.dk :D
01:25 < zylopfa> naa
01:25 < BartJol> are a lot of danish people using webgui?
01:25 < zylopfa> no 0 i think
01:25 < zylopfa> was the only site i ever saw with it
01:25 < zylopfa> But its more to do with lack of skills than anything else
01:26 < zylopfa> They can't administer the servers
01:26 < BartJol> but the dutch forum is also not that full
01:26 < zylopfa> cause they always read that .net was the way to go
01:26 < zylopfa> well BartJol i expect an advocate site of webgui to run atleast the lastes stable version
01:27 < zylopfa> and have a bit more than 0 tips and tricks in the "tips and tricks" section
01:27 < BartJol> oops
01:27 < SquOnk> See you guys tomorrow
01:27 < zylopfa> take care SquOnk 
01:27 -!- SquOnk [n=emhn@201.248.19.52] has quit ["Yippie kay-ai-yay fudder muckers!"]
01:27 < BartJol> will plan an updat for webgui.nl soon them :)
01:28 < zylopfa> haah <3
01:28 < BartJol> but at leat it is 7.4.x
01:28 < zylopfa> thats far enough up
01:28 < BartJol> by the end of the year we are trying to have everything running latest stable
01:29 < zylopfa> sweet BartJol 
01:29 < BartJol> but I'm gonna have troubles with the 5.x versions
01:29 < zylopfa> how come?
01:30 < BartJol> the upgrade path is hard, especially the custom templates will break
01:30 < zylopfa> yeah 
01:30 < zylopfa> I got many errors from that also
01:31 < zylopfa> from now on i will update my production servers to the lastes stable as it gets out
01:31 < BartJol> so first I have to get them so far that I can put them all in a wre environment
01:31 < zylopfa> yeah trie
01:31 < zylopfa> true
01:32 < BartJol> then it will get better
01:32 <@rizen> it may be hard, but at least there is an upgrade path
01:32 < zylopfa> indeed rizen 
01:32 < BartJol> true
01:32 <@rizen> technically you can upgrade WebGUI 0.9.0 all the way to WebGUI 7.6.1
01:33 <@rizen> We're the only CMS out there I know of that has a complete upgrade path for it's entire history
01:33 < zylopfa> thats pretty awesome
01:34 < BartJol> and probably I'll learn a lot along the way
01:34 < BartJol> and drink a lot of coffee
01:34 <@rizen> and don't forget a lot of beer at the end!
01:35 < BartJol> indeed
01:35 < zylopfa> rizen, is php object oriented (read: can it be)?
01:35 <@rizen> i've heard that php 5 and above can be
01:35 < zylopfa> ohh ok
01:35 <@rizen> but i havent' coded much php in my life
01:35 < zylopfa> I dont understand why php was needed
01:36 < zylopfa> I have coded some in it cause some i worked for demanded it
01:36 < BartJol> rizen: know your enemy (besides koen)
01:36  * rizen detests all forms of server page languages
01:36 < zylopfa> YES IRZEN!!
01:36 < zylopfa> woops RIZEN
01:36 < zylopfa> I hate embedded shit languages
01:36 < zylopfa> in the start it was what everyone wanted thats why they made php
01:37 < zylopfa> which in syntax co-incidentally looks exactly like perl
01:37  * BartJol is going sleeping
01:37 -!- BartJol [n=plainstu@52-167.surfsnel.dsl.internl.net] has left #webgui []
01:38 <@rizen> i've been very lucky that i've only had to use perl, javascript, and pascal in most of my programming life, with only a few brief stints in php, ruby, c#, java, cobol, assembler, modula2, and basic
01:38 <@rizen> oh and C and RPG
01:38 < zylopfa> yeah same with me mostly
01:39 <+perlDreamer> humph
01:39 <+perlDreamer> you haven't lived til you've programmed in Lisp
01:39 < zylopfa> how old are you rizen to have been programming in cobol?
01:39 <+perlDreamer> and PIC assembly
01:39 < zylopfa> i have programmed that also perlDreamer 
01:40 < zylopfa> for some led strobelight project
01:40 < zylopfa> I found a way to build a programmer circuit on the net
01:40 < zylopfa> for them
01:40 <+perlDreamer> rizen is 62 this year
01:40 < zylopfa> woo sick
01:40 <+perlDreamer> which explains his great wisdom and knowledge.
01:40 < zylopfa> i bet he was programming for the Y2K bug
01:41 < zylopfa> i mean the problem code ;D
01:44 <@rizen> i wrote one Lisp program in college...a solution to the 8 queens problem
01:44 < zylopfa> :O
01:44 <@rizen> get it right pd, i'm 162
01:44 < zylopfa> woo shit
01:45 <@rizen> which thusly makes you what, 204?
01:45 < zylopfa> is Webgui year 2038 compatible?
01:45 <@rizen> no
01:45 <@rizen> it is if you're running on 64 bit hardware
01:45 <@rizen> but not if you're on 32 bit
01:45 < zylopfa> yeah then it wont run over
01:46 < zylopfa> well its propablt more an OS issue than a webgui one?
01:47 <@rizen> if i had designed everything using real dates instead of epochs then we wouldn't have the problem
01:48 <@rizen> but alas, i was short sighted
01:48 <+perlDreamer> Hey, can you legally be president?
01:48 <@rizen> perlDreamer, no, i haven't held public office before
01:48 <+perlDreamer> I mean, are you old enough to be president?
01:48 <@rizen> and i wasn't born in the united states
01:48 < zylopfa> you have to be a senator?
01:49 <@rizen> of course i'm old enough, i'm 162
01:49 -!- elnino [n=elnino@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer]
01:49 < zylopfa> you look smashing for a 162 year old
01:49 <@rizen> pd, no i'm not old enough either...1 more year
01:49 -!- elnino [n=elnino@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #WEBGUI
01:49 <+perlDreamer> He bathes in the blood of newbie WebGUI programmers.
01:50 < zylopfa> haaa O.O
01:50 < zylopfa> I am one of those
01:51 <@rizen> john mccain is so old he presided over the YM bug
01:51 <@rizen> Year = 1000
01:51 <@rizen> =)
01:51 <@rizen> i'm so funny i could shoot myself in the head
01:52 < zylopfa> who do you vote for rizen ?
01:52 <+perlDreamer> zylopfa, if he asks you for a small donation, just give it to him.  It's better than the alternative...
01:53 < zylopfa> sure thing perlDreamer !
01:54 <@rizen> this year, barrack obama
01:55 < zylopfa> thanks :D
01:55 <@rizen> he doesn't really represent my ideals, but i think he will be really good for the country, especially with respect to regaining some trust with our allies, and getting us on the track to having a real medical system like the rest of the civilized world
01:56 < zylopfa> yeah i guess that will be good
01:56 < zylopfa> if there are money for it
01:56 <@rizen> In Denmark you guys have 100% free healthcare?
01:56 < zylopfa> rizen, do you make all your presentations in the us?
01:56 < zylopfa> rizen, yeah but we also have the highest tax pressure in the world
01:56 <@rizen> no i present in europe from time to time
01:56 < zylopfa> both on consumer goods and in personal income tax
01:57 < zylopfa> we have 25% vat. on all products
01:57 <@rizen> i'll be presenting in portugal next summer
01:57 < zylopfa> Sweet
01:57 < zylopfa> I think i will attend that then
01:57 < zylopfa> or else if you present anythuing in the states at any major tradeshows
01:58 <@rizen> that's pretty high...but you also have one of the cleanest energy programs in the world
01:58 <@rizen> so that tax helps pay the true cost of the goods your using
01:58 < zylopfa> yeah you are right
01:58 <@rizen> whereas in the US we may get cheap goods, but we pay for it in pollution
01:58 < CIA-39> WebGUI: patspam * r7950 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (lib/EnableFlux.pm enable_flux.pl): Refactored enable_flux.pl into EnableFlux.pm
01:59 < zylopfa> I haven't left my country though eventhough i whine about taxes
01:59 <@rizen> people whine about taxes everywhere...it's part of living under a government... =)
01:59 < zylopfa> rizen, have you ever presented at CES?
01:59 <@rizen> no
02:00 <@rizen> webgui isn't a consumer product
02:00 < zylopfa> Well i go to portugal i think in the summer
02:00 <@rizen> the biggest show we did this year was OSCON, and perlDreamer was there for that
02:00 <@rizen> we gave away over 1000 gooeys to people, and there was much rejoicing about that =)
02:00 < zylopfa> woo shit!
02:00 < zylopfa> thats a lot 
02:01 <@rizen> perlDreamer has pics of his kids buried in gooey dolls
02:01 < zylopfa> ahaah nice one
02:01 < zylopfa> its a good mascot cause it can do a shitload of things at the same time like webgui
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02:04 < zylopfa> greetings preaction 
02:04 <@preaction> evening
02:06 < zylopfa> perlDreamer	40666, thats sick much karma
02:06 <@preaction> should i kill myself by getting spaghetti alla carbonera? or should i play it safer with a seafood alfredo
02:07 < zylopfa> carbonera imo, its yummy
02:07 <+perlDreamer> How about a nice pesto and grilled chicken?
02:08 < zylopfa> I have to go now, its dead late in denmark atm
02:08 < zylopfa> Take care all and see you tomorrow
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02:32 < SDuensin> Evening.
02:32 <@preaction> evening
02:33 < SDuensin> You know, there's one problem with me striking out on my own to do web development...
02:33 < SDuensin> ...I have no idea how/what to charge!
02:38 <@preaction> rentacoder.com perhaps to get some ideas?
02:39 < SDuensin> Maybe.  I kinda consider that site amateur hour.  :-)
02:41 < patspam> SDuensin: don't be afraid to charge what you think you're really worth (lots of people undervalue themselves)
02:42 < SDuensin> I seriously undervalue myself.  :-(
02:43 < patspam> often if you charge dirt-cheap rates you end up with clients who don't want to pay much and don't value the quality of your work
02:44 < SDuensin> I've found that out.  Clients that like to stiff you, too.  (Like Apple of all places.  F*ckers.)
02:46 < patspam> clients can be great too, but getting it right is the hard bit
02:50 <@rizen> i seriously undervalue patspam
02:50 <@rizen> sometimes he gives me his 2 cents, but i only take half that
02:51 < patspam> case in point!
02:51 < patspam> =p
02:52 < SDuensin> hehe
02:52  * patspam svn commit spam in T minus 3 minutes..
02:52 < SDuensin> Oh, all and mighty rizen!  I welcome all advice you have for a newly starving IT geek!
02:53 <@rizen> i've got no advice
02:53 <@rizen> well i have lots of advice, but i hate sounding like a horses ass
02:53 < SDuensin> Not even "get some sense, you fool?"
02:53 <@rizen> pay yourself first
02:54 <@rizen> in any business dealings, professional or personal, that should be your motto
02:54 < SDuensin> That's the plan, man.
02:55 < SDuensin> My problem is, I'm no salesperson.  I also don't think my work is worth what it could probably make, because I find it easy to do.
02:55 <@rizen> the first rule of the opulent wealth plan (which i wrote as my manifesto when i started plain black) was outsource everything that is not your core business
02:56 <@rizen> in otherwords, if you can make $40 doing anything at all, then why would do something that you can pay $10 to do for you
02:56 < SDuensin> That's part of my plan, man.  I'm good with code, servers, and not too shabby with WebGUI.  Design is going out for now.
02:57 <@rizen> i just realize i stated that very poorly
02:57 <@rizen> but i think you got the gist
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02:58 <@rizen> my employees sometimes give me shit for this, but i hire a housekeeper crew to come in once every two weeks to do the deep cleaning work at my house
02:58 <@rizen> it takes them 1.5 hours
02:58 <@rizen> and costs me $70
02:58 <@rizen> it would take me all day to do what they do in that short amount of time
02:58 < SDuensin> Yea, but how long would it take you?  And what's your time worth an hour?
02:58 <@rizen> and i bill out at $200 per hour
02:58  * SDuensin gets that.  :-)
02:59 < SDuensin> Two bills, eh?  Damn I work cheap.
02:59 <@rizen> so many people don't understand fundamentals like that, because they are so stuck on the do it yourself mentality
02:59 <@rizen> my employees only bill out at $120 per hour
03:00 < SDuensin> Only makes sense to do it yourself in certain cases.  Stick to your strengths.
03:00 <@rizen> and i don't do a lot of external work anymore, but when i do, it's $200 per hour
03:00 < SDuensin> Which is great, other than getting started.  I can't afford to hire up-front people (like sales).
03:00 <@rizen> most of the time i'm spending time working on the core, or planning for our future
03:00 <@rizen> both of which are easily worth $200 per hour
03:00 <@rizen> =)
03:00 < SDuensin> Good idea.  I like the core.  :-)
03:01 <@rizen> when i first started out, i kept my $dayjob until i couldn't anymore
03:01 < SDuensin> Yea, well, my $dayjob is !killing me.
03:01 <@rizen> it help me build the business
03:01 <@rizen> so i hope you have a nestegg or a supportive wife
03:01 <@rizen> cuz it will take a while to get your business up to full speed
03:02 < SDuensin> Yes, to both.  And I plan on finding other boring ass work for awhile.
03:02 <@rizen> another rule that i applied right from day one is: no credit cards or loans unless there is a clear and direct plan on how to pay it back, and when it will be paid off
03:03 < SDuensin> Amen.  Been in startups that suffered from that problem.
03:03 < CIA-39> WebGUI: patspam * r7951 /branch/WebGUI_flux/.project: Updated .project file
03:03 < patspam> incoming!
03:04 <@rizen> other than that, know that hourly and support work is going to be your bread and butter until you have enough recurring sources (like hosting) to keep you going
03:04 <@rizen> and that's going to be a long long time
03:04 < SDuensin> I don't count on hosting to pay the bills.  
03:05 < SDuensin> I do hosting because I'm good at it.  It's like free money.
03:05 < SDuensin> Well, I'm better than most at it.  :-D
03:05 <@rizen> and finally, find ways to do what you love. if a client wants you to build a web app, and you like developing in webgui, then just build it in webgui...you don't need to tell them that's what you're doing unless they ask. most don't care, they just want it to work
03:06 < SDuensin> I do WebGUI.  I do other things, but mainly WebGUI.
03:06 < SDuensin> Only other web technology that has my eye at the moment is Cappuccino.
03:07 <@rizen> there's a lot of other stuff we could talk about, but this early in the game, none of it will be relevant yet
03:07 < SDuensin> hehe
03:07 < SDuensin> You look at Cappuccino yet?  Wow is it nice.
03:07 <@rizen> yes i have and no it isn't
03:08 < SDuensin> !!!
03:08 < SDuensin> Perl Nazi!
03:08 < SDuensin> :-)
03:08 <@rizen> yui nazi
03:08 < SDuensin> Yui is nice.  Different goal than Cappuccino.
03:08 <@rizen> entirely different goal
03:08 < SDuensin> Yep.
03:08 <@rizen> but much more in line with webgui than cappuccino
03:09 < SDuensin> Oh yea.  Cappuccino isn't for "web sites".
03:09 < SDuensin> But it is cool!  :-)
03:10 < patspam> rizen: you had a play with the yui 3.x preview release?
03:10 < SDuensin> ObjJ interests me because ObjC interests me.
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03:11 <@rizen> patspam, no just read the site
03:12 < patspam> SDuensin: objective c has no future (http://tinyurl.com/yhmozu)
03:12 < SDuensin> Bah
03:13 < patspam> and (http://tinyurl.com/6ydcjt)
03:13 < SDuensin> I like what Alan Kay said...
03:13 < SDuensin> 'Actually I made up the term "object-oriented", and I can tell you I did not have C++ in mind.'
03:14 < patspam> he was thinking of moose, but then jt rained on the party
03:14 < SDuensin> hehehe
03:15 < SDuensin> I love the facial hair argument/proof.
03:15 <@rizen> too many moose lovers in the world
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03:17  * SDuensin missed the moose joke
03:18  * perlmonkey2 loves use Moose.
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03:29  * rizen sticks fork in perlmonkey2
03:30 <@perlmonkey2> Moose is a 'real' OO system for Perl.  With all sorts of lovely freebies, like accessors, hooks in methods for pre/post calls, and about a billion other things.
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03:34 < SDuensin> Ah yes, I read about that once upon a time.
03:35 < CIA-39> WebGUI: doug * r7952 /WebGUI/ (155 files in 22 dirs): 
03:35 < CIA-39> WebGUI: added: "EditArea" code highlighter and editing tool for WebGUI::Form::Codearea, used
03:35 < CIA-39> WebGUI: in Template, Snippet, SQLReport, and more
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03:42 <@perlmonkey2> SDuensin: it's fun, but I doubt it would be worth the speed hit.
03:42 <@preaction> talking with an advocate of moose, there is no speed hit. there's a compile-time hit though
03:43 <@perlmonkey2> preaction: I was just compromising my principles about Moose so that rizen won't kill me.
03:46 <@rizen> preaction: if you talk to a cannibal, there's nothing wrong with eating people either
03:47 <@rizen> also, the existence of the speed hit is irrelevant. moose will not be added to webgui because it would double the size of our per process memory footprint
03:47 < SDuensin> That would be bad.
03:50 <@perlmonkey2> yes, Moose is rather large
03:51 <@perlmonkey2> Maybe at Christmas we can use something like Moose when Perl6 comes out :D
03:52 <@rizen> even the moose developers say that moose will be mostly irrelevant when Perl6 comes out
03:52 <@rizen> Christmas 3024
03:52 <@rizen> that's my current bet for perl 6
03:53 <@preaction> i'm not sure my robot body will survive that long
03:53 < patspam> mst has an interesting take on it, he's convinced perl 6 is just a "nice research project" and that by the time it's finished we'll have all of the cool features backported into perl 5 already
03:54 <@rizen> that's probably true
03:54 < patspam> and he's actually making a lot of it happen, which is kind of scary
03:55 < patspam> either way we win :)
03:55 <@rizen> i've decided that if i had to do a ground up rewrite of webgui i likely would turn in my computer and go do anything else
03:57 < SDuensin> hehehehe
03:57 < patspam> any reason why the wre install.txt no longer tells people to add the awstats line to crontab?
03:58 <@rizen> you don't need to
03:58 <@rizen> it's part of log rotation
03:58 < patspam> ahhh
04:01 < patspam> very cool
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04:11 < patspam> preaction: code highlighter is a great idea
04:12 < elnino> is there a way to "rerun" the site designer wizard thing after you ran it once?
04:13 <@preaction> sure, but why?
04:16 < CIA-39> WebGUI: patspam * r7953 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (294 files in 62 dirs): Merge tags/WebGUI_7.6.0-beta into flux
04:16 < CIA-39> WebGUI: patspam * r7954 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (95 files in 14 dirs): Finished merge from tags/WebGUI_7.6.0-beta
04:16 < CIA-39> WebGUI: jt * r7955 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 3 dirs): 
04:16 < CIA-39> WebGUI: Added some web services to the Gallery asset to support the use of remote
04:16 < CIA-39> WebGUI:  apps to post photos and create albums.
04:16 <@preaction> we're making tags now?
04:17 < elnino> because I don't like the look I created.
04:17 < elnino> and actually I didn't know about it, so I'd like to run it now after I had said "no" to the question.
04:17 < elnino> (two different sites: - one I wantt o rerun, the other I want to run it.)
04:17 <@preaction> elnino, you can use the Style wizard at any time. Simply make a new template and look on the right where it says "Style wizard"
04:18 < elnino> oh.  That seems easy. didn't see it there.... Thanks!
04:26 < patspam> perlmonkey2: is Survey2 coming across into 7.6-beta anytime soon?
05:19 < CIA-39> WebGUI: patspam * r7956 /branch/WebGUI_flux/FLUX_README.txt: Minor edit
05:19 < CIA-39> WebGUI: patspam * r7957 /branch/WebGUI_flux/docs/upgrades/ (20 files): Removed empty dirs
05:31 < Mech4221> SDuensin: ping ?
05:31 < patspam> anyone know when 7.6.1-beta is due out?
05:35 < Mech4221> SDuensin: if yer still around - I found that hitting up past employeers and recruiters can help ya started till you develop a client base..
05:35 < dionak> does anyone know if all the templates are being converted to International macro?
05:35 < dionak> heard they were but curious about status
05:36 < Mech4221> SDuensin: lots of recruiters have short term assignments you can snag much quicker then you can load a sales pipeline
05:37 < Mech4221> SDuensin: also, sites like dice can give you an idea what local consulting rates are like - they are probably a lot higher then you think, as most 'job shops' generally pay the contractor at least $45/hr., and typical add at least $40/hr in marging (net $80+/hr)
05:38 < Mech4221> so by cutting out the job shop/recruiter you can charge say $75/hr, and save your clients $5/hr in the process.
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05:43 <@perlmonkey2> patspam: I'm trying really hard to have it wrapped up by wed.
05:43 <@perlmonkey2> Upgrade, copying, and reports are all in process.
05:46 < patspam> perlmonkey2: you're a legend
05:46 <@perlmonkey2> hah
05:47 < patspam> honestly, i can't say how grateful i am :)
05:47 <@perlmonkey2> patspam: no need to be grateful.  This is something I've been wanting to get into the core for a long time.
05:58 < dionak> perlmonkey2, what are you becoming legendary for? 
05:58 < dionak> i mean other than being a master bug squasher and survey coder
05:59 < dionak> just curious what you're up to
05:59 <@perlmonkey2> patspam: needs the survey and I'm just about finished.
06:00 <@perlmonkey2> I was going to say I was legendary for my devilish good looks, charm, and sense of humor, but this being my employer's channel, that would probably be unprofessional
06:01 < patspam> tell me in #whyperlmonkey2isalegend
06:02 <@perlmonkey2> patspam: that channel doesn't exist for a reason :P
06:03 < patspam> h