--- Log opened Thu May 01 00:00:49 2008
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00:39 <+snapcount> argh... why is mysql replication so freaking cumbersome
00:39 <@rizen> remove mysql
00:39 <@rizen> replication is cumbersome
00:40 <+snapcount> heh... I guess that is a better way to put it
00:40 <+snapcount> I've never worked with repl on another rdbms before
00:40 <@rizen> i meant remove it from the sentence
00:41 <+snapcount> so it could be equally crappy on all platforms
00:41 <@rizen> not your server
00:41 <+snapcount> lol
00:41 <+snapcount> "but you said to remove mysql"
00:41 <@rizen> i've used it on oracle, mysql, and sybase
00:41 <@rizen> mysql is the easiest to set up, but has the fewest options out of the ones i've used
00:42 <@rizen> you need a special degree in oracle in order to set up replication in oracle
00:42 <+perlDreamer> snapcount, he means s/mysql //; #all replication is freaking cumbersome
00:43 < Samus_Aran> can someone point me in the direction for updating the logout/login part.  I have a styled login form that I want to appear once the person logs out
00:46 <+snapcount> perlDreamer: indeed =)
00:46 < Samus_Aran> figured it out. 
00:48 <+perlDreamer> Samus_Aran: when a person logs out returns you to the page that you were looking at (if you have permission)
00:48 <+perlDreamer> it doesn't show you a custom relogin form
00:48 <+perlDreamer> so all you can do is style the generic login form
00:51 < Samus_Aran> I found on the Wikie: ^LoginToggle("Click here to log in.","Click here to log out.","/url/to/your/template");
00:51 < Samus_Aran> which seems to be what I want
00:52 < Samus_Aran> that is, if /url/to/your/template contains HTML for the login form.  if not, I'm still lost
00:54 <+perlDreamer> Samus_Aran: I'd suggest the L_loginBox macro instead
00:54 <+perlDreamer> but either may do the trick
00:54 < Samus_Aran> which only appears when they are not logged in?
00:55 < Samus_Aran> maybe I will just keep the login form always visible, as I sometimes change users 
00:55 <+perlDreamer> l_loginBox: If they are logged in, it shows them a link to their account.  If logged out, it shows them a login box for username/passwd
00:55 <+perlDreamer> LoginToggle: show them text 1 with login if logged out, text 2 with logout if logged in
00:56 <+perlDreamer> but you can build more sophisticated stuff as well
00:59 <+snapcount> rsync freaking rules
01:06 < CIA-5> WebGUI: jt * r6283 /WebGUI/ (13 files in 8 dirs): added coupons
01:09 <+snapcount> does anyone know what is being used to announce svn commits in IRC?
01:10 <+snapcount> that is really cool... is it a one off or out there on the interwebs?
01:10 <+snapcount> preaction: is this a custom perlbot you wrote?
01:11 <@preaction> no, see http://cia.vc
01:11 <+snapcount> sweet... thanks man
01:24 < Samus_Aran> snapcount: rsync is great :)
01:25 < Samus_Aran> along with a small script to dump databases, it is very handy for offsite backups
01:26 <+snapcount> it's good for repairing replication when it breaks so you don't have to copy entire snapshots of the dbs
01:26 <+snapcount> esp when the db is like 20GB
01:27 <+snapcount> much faster
01:27 < Samus_Aran> well, these are teeny databases, hehe.  just a few MB
01:27 < Samus_Aran> haven't had to deal with huge ones yet
01:27 <+snapcount> I'm new to it as well
01:27 <+snapcount> we have one now that is appx 750 million rows
01:27 < Samus_Aran> what is in it?
01:27 <+snapcount> people data
01:28 < Samus_Aran> user accounts for a web site ?
01:28 <+snapcount> criminal records, phone book type stuff, real estate transactions, etc
01:28 <+snapcount> professional records
01:28 <+snapcount> judgements, bankruptcies, lienss
01:28 <+snapcount> all kinds of crap
01:29 <+snapcount> not users in a website
01:30 <+snapcount> this is more like all the people in the united states
01:30 <+snapcount> and puerto rico I think
01:32 <+snapcount> thankfully we don't replicate that data =)
01:32 <+snapcount> that would be interesting to say the least
01:32 < CIA-5> WebGUI: jt * r6283 /WebGUI/ (13 files in 8 dirs): added coupons
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01:39 < Samus_Aran> snapcount: what type of hard drive do you have to drive it, and how much RAM ?
01:40 < Samus_Aran> presumably a fast RAID array
01:40 < Samus_Aran> and too many GB of RAM
01:41 <+snapcount> That data is on a RAID 1, SAS 300GB 15K RPM
01:41 <+snapcount> 32GB of memory and dual quad core 2.0 GHz xeons
01:42 < Samus_Aran> it is remarkable how cheap servers are now than a few years ago
01:42 <+snapcount> for sure
01:42 < Samus_Aran> million dollar servers are now available for a few thousand
01:42 < Samus_Aran> kind of scary.
01:42 <+snapcount> that box I think cost me like 5 or 6K
01:42 <+snapcount> but we buy a lot of servers and get a fat discount
01:43 < Samus_Aran> discounts are always nice
01:44 -!- rizen is now known as rizenisaway
01:45 <+snapcount> I tell you what really impresses me is MySQL cluster
01:45 <+snapcount> if they could make it work with complex selects it would solve world hunger =D
01:46 <@apeiron> heh, http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2008/04/the_mysql_appliance.html
01:46 <@apeiron> ^^ that's impressive
01:46 <+snapcount> it is soooo fast and fault tolerant
01:46 <+snapcount> we have a four node setup that handles all of our AAA
01:47 <+snapcount> apeiron: I saw that at the conference a few weeks ago
01:47 <+snapcount> it is impressive but pricey
01:47 <+snapcount> I think bottom floor is like 25K and tops out around $200K
01:48 <+snapcount> but the architecture of using an "SQL Chip" is pretty cool
01:50 <+snapcount> The guy told me they won't be available until late fall
01:50 <+snapcount> but it sucks that they won't sell you the chip only
01:50 <@apeiron> Yeah, 10/14/2008 according to that site.
01:50 <@apeiron> indeed. I'd like to frob it with different DBs.
01:50 <+snapcount> you have to buy the appliance which is just a COTS server with a PCI-X card containing that chip
01:50 <+snapcount> and a diff storage engine for mysql
01:51 <+snapcount> who knows... maybe that will come someday =)
01:55 <+snapcount> finally got replication back up on this box
01:55 <+snapcount> what a PITA
01:57 < CIA-5> WebGUI: jt * r6284 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (7 files in 4 dirs): added missing help files
01:59 <+perlDreamer> rizenisaway: You big stud!
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02:20 < CIA-5> WebGUI: colin * r6285 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Help/Asset_Product.pm: point Product Asset help to Sku help instead of wobject
02:20 < CIA-5> WebGUI: colin * r6286 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): more product variants work, i18n, forms and upgrade script
02:25 < Samus_Aran> once SSD are cheaper and faster, it will effortlessly beat out 15K drives
02:25 < Samus_Aran> it has the potential to be many times faster than any current disks
02:26 < Samus_Aran> and as a bonus is smaller and uses less electricity
02:26 <+perlDreamer> there was a slashdot article saying that now, performance wise, they're much slower than mechanical drives
02:26 < Samus_Aran> currently they just plug into SATA slots and are not economical or particularly efficient
02:27 < Samus_Aran> but it is still the first generation
02:27 < Samus_Aran> I don't think platter drives will be used within 4-5 years
02:28 < Samus_Aran> they will also be cheaper to produce once the manufacturing is behind it
02:28 < Samus_Aran> oh, and great for databases, random access with the same seek time
02:29 < Samus_Aran> I'm about to build a 5.4 TiB array at home (9x SATA 750GB disks).  perhaps by the time that is bursting at the seams, SSD will be cheap =)
02:31 < Samus_Aran> I haven't heard anything about heat, but I imagine SSD are very cool compared to platter disks.  you can heat a house with regular hard drives
02:31 <+perlDreamer> too bad you can't cool them :)
02:32 <+snapcount> my macbook air has the SSD
02:32 <+snapcount> it is a bit slower
02:33 <+snapcount> but the battery lasts for like 4.5 - 5 hrs
02:33 <+snapcount> it's really good at random writes but the mech drives blow it away on sequential writes
02:33 <+snapcount> which makes sense I think
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02:52 < CIA-5> WebGUI: colin * r6287 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): begin migrating Product data into variants
02:55 < Samus_Aran> battery efficiency, speed and storage capacity are going to skyrocket with SSD
02:56 < Samus_Aran> does anyone know how I can duplicate a template so that I can paste in my custom made code ?
02:56 < Samus_Aran> if I go to assets and select a template and do duplicate, it doesn't duplicate the template
02:56 < Samus_Aran> it just creates an empty folder
02:56 < Samus_Aran> not sure how to copy as well the content in it
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04:04 < Samus_Aran> duplicated the template manually, and now it won't let me apply anything to a whole branch... hum
04:05 < Samus_Aran> one question: is there a way without Apache mod_rewrite to make the top of the web site not have a name ?
04:05 < Samus_Aran> for example "home" shows up as http://www.foo.com/home
04:05 < Samus_Aran> but it also shows up as http://www.foo.com/
04:06 < Samus_Aran> which is bad for search engines and caching
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04:15 <+Radix-wrk> sounds like spectre is the cause then
04:15 <+Radix-wrk> spectre shouldn't be timing out
04:15 <+Radix-wrk> check your spectre.conf file for typos, invalid domain names, etc
04:16 -!- DX^ [n=dx@c-24-99-22-37.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
04:16 < DX^> I want to start a circuit schematic archive, so I want the ability to categorize a bunch of content, but I also want it to have tags and comments, so users can add info and search, can I do this with WebGUI?
04:17 <+Radix-wrk> the wiki has tags, and you can add pages, search, etc
04:17 <+Radix-wrk> it doesn't have the concept of comments though
04:17 < Samus_Aran> Radix-wrk: I restarted Apache earlier, then restarted spectre, I haven't changed anything since last time it was started a few weeks ago, hm
04:17 <@apeiron> No comments in non-CS content, anyway.
04:17 <@apeiron> And I think the Gallery has comemnts.
04:18 <@apeiron> But they're simple enough to add.
04:18 <+Radix-wrk> gallery/cs might be your best bet
04:18 <+Radix-wrk> new gallery in 7.5 has tags too doesn't it?
04:18 <@apeiron> hrmmm
04:19 <@apeiron> Not sure, haven't used it much.
04:19 <+Radix-wrk> I'm pretty sure it does
04:19 < DX^> What is CS?
04:19 <@apeiron> Collaboration System.
04:19 < DX^> ah
04:19 <@apeiron> The guy who wrote it isn't here at the moment.
04:19 <@apeiron> (the gallery)
04:19 < DX^> webgui has all this?
04:19 <+Radix-wrk> DX^: Collaboration System - the Gallery is a rewrite of it essentially
04:20 < Samus_Aran> ADMIN: Fetching site data for foo.com.conf
04:20 <+Radix-wrk> these are just a couple of the wobjects available
04:20 < Samus_Aran> ADMIN: [Error] Couldn't connect to WebGUI site foo.com.conf at http://foo.com:80/?op=spectreGetSiteData.  Response: 500 read timeout
04:20 < Samus_Aran> that's all I get
04:20 < Samus_Aran> then it resumes what looks like normal working 
04:20 < Samus_Aran> no more errors
04:20 < Samus_Aran> (using --debug --run)
04:21 < Samus_Aran> should spectre be started before or after Apache ?
04:21 < Samus_Aran> I forget
04:21 <+Radix-wrk> after
04:21 < Samus_Aran> that's what I thought, and what I did.  I guess I'll go dig around in the log files to see if there's anything more helpful
04:22 <@apeiron> Samus_Aran, If you're using the WRE, try the 'all' target.
04:22 <@apeiron> e.g. /data/wre/sbin/wreservice.pl --restart all
04:22 <+Radix-wrk> check the dns resolution for foo.com
04:22 < Samus_Aran> apeiron: manual install via the guide, on an Ubuntu system
04:23 <+Radix-wrk> Also check that the foo.com.conf has specified the right ip block for the spectre
04:23 < Samus_Aran> Radix-wrk: I can get to the site and do all the admin stuff without any apparent issues, except a single lock on the home page item that I need to apply a theme to the whole site
04:23 < Samus_Aran> I can apply versions fine
04:23 < Samus_Aran> I mean commit
04:23 <+Radix-wrk> hmm..
04:24 <+Radix-wrk> so you can commit other things and they go through?
04:24 <+Radix-wrk> might just be a stuck workflow then
04:24 < Samus_Aran> I had issues with spectre before, but those were stopping everything
04:24 <+Radix-wrk> go to workflows and run it manually perhaps
04:25 < DX^> Can someone show me a web site using the collaboration system
04:25 < Samus_Aran> I tried going to the URL the --debug gave me, and it eventually pops up a download window, but after a long time
04:25 < Samus_Aran> perhaps the timeout is set too low
04:25 < Samus_Aran> but I don't know why it would take a long time, the server is pretty fast
04:25 < Samus_Aran> it says file type is text/json
04:25 <+Radix-wrk> DX^: the collaboration system is incredibly flexible.. you can template it to do anything really.  forums, photo galleries, flash video galleries, etc
04:25 < Samus_Aran> pops up after about 60-90 seconds
04:27 <+Radix-wrk> DX^: The collaboration system is probably the most flexible object in webgui imho - and any example we showed you would have the limitations imposed by the template used really.
04:28 <+Radix-wrk> I have a flash video template I use for flash movies on our website - http://www.formsys.com/maxsurf/videos
04:28 < Samus_Aran> clicking on "Show running workflows" is lagging as well, though it isn't appearing even after 2+ minutes
04:29 < DX^> So I can let people add stuff to this?
04:29 < DX^> this seems way too complicated
04:29 < DX^> I don't want to roll my own, hah
04:30 <+Radix-wrk> it's not particularly complicated if you use an existing template
04:30 < Samus_Aran> BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /var/www/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Template/TemplateToolkit.pm line 19.
04:31 < Samus_Aran> line 19 is "use Template;"
04:31 <@apeiron> Samus_Aran, There'll probably be something before that line which explains the error.
04:31 <@apeiron> e.g., "Can't find Template.pm in @INC [...]"
04:32 < Samus_Aran> Error loading WebGUI::Asset::Template::TemplateToolkit! - Can't locate Template.pm in @INC
04:32 <@apeiron> uh huh.
04:32 <@apeiron> Samus_Aran, This site worked before?
04:32 < Samus_Aran> yes, was working fine the past several weeks
04:33 <@apeiron> Looks like your environment isn't set up properly. Using the same perl and such?
04:33 < Samus_Aran> same GNU Screen session with same environment variables
04:33 < Samus_Aran> Apache was updated by Ubuntu somewhere along the line I think
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04:34 <@apeiron> hm. If Apache was updated, did it replace the config?
04:34 <@apeiron> What about modperl?
04:34 < Samus_Aran> @INC conta
04:34 < Samus_Aran> ins: /var/www/WebGUI/lib
04:34 < Samus_Aran> I can't remember if mod_perl was updated.  I run an update every day or two on the server
04:35 < Samus_Aran> the directory contains only WebGUI.pm.  does the Perl @INC also read sub-directories ?
04:35 <@apeiron> If the package name is appropriate.
04:36 <@apeiron> e.g. if you want WebGUI::Session it'll look in /var/www/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI for Session.pm
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04:36 < Samus_Aran> there are five Template .pm files in the sub directories
04:37 < Samus_Aran> /var/www/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Template/TemplateToolkit.pm
04:37 <@apeiron> Yes, they're all below /var/www/WebGUI/lib yes?
04:37 <@apeiron> That means that they're all WebGUI:: packages.
04:37 < Samus_Aran> oh wait, that was the package that tried to load Template.pm
04:37 <@apeiron> Yes.
04:37 <@apeiron> Template.pm is a separate, non-WebGUI module.
04:38 < Samus_Aran> Oh, I see.  confused me with so many Template.pm files in the WebGUI dir.  I will confirm it is installed and up-to-date and all that
04:38 <@apeiron> It has to be, if you've been running WebGUI before.
04:39 <@apeiron> The fact that it's suddenly missing makes me think that either it was uninstalled by one of those updates of yours or some environment variable got broken somehow.
04:40 < Samus_Aran> I will search the hard drive for Template.pm to see where it is
04:41 < Samus_Aran> I ran the perl script to check the environment, and it only checks for HTML::Template:
04:41 < Samus_Aran> is that the Template.pm ?
04:41 < Samus_Aran> and it was installed according to the script
04:42 <@apeiron> That's a different module.
04:42 < Samus_Aran> testEnvironment.pl doesn't check for anything else with Template in it
04:43 < Samus_Aran> installing Template Toolkit Version 2.19 manually
04:43 < Samus_Aran> cpan install Template
04:43 <@apeiron> Don't do that, you'll pull in junoscript.
04:44 <@apeiron> (bit of a bug in the cpan command utility)
04:44 <@apeiron> just run: cpan Template
04:44 <@apeiron> Better, why not use a vendor package?
04:45 < Samus_Aran> you mean apt-get install somethingorother ?
04:45 <@apeiron> Yes.
04:46 < Samus_Aran> I followed the instructions originally from the site, perhaps Ubuntu updated the module and broke things
04:47 < Samus_Aran> it's installing them now
04:47  * Samus_Aran crosses fingers
04:47  * Samus_Aran goes to microwave a burrito...
04:56 < Samus_Aran> different error now: Can't locate Time/Format.pm in @INC
04:57 < Samus_Aran> strange that all the modules were fine before, now they're all bungled up
04:57 <@apeiron> Could be that one of your upgrades broke things.
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05:02 < Samus_Aran> no more errors in the Apache log, but Spectre still gets: Response: 500 read timeout
05:02 < Samus_Aran> will check webgui log
05:03 < Samus_Aran> not completely sure what this means from the debug output of Spectre:
05:03 < Samus_Aran> WORKFLOW: Checking to see if we can run anymore instances right now.
05:03 < Samus_Aran> WORKFLOW: There are 0 running instances.
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05:03 < Samus_Aran> does that mean Spectre isn't running, or just that there are no workflows ?
05:04 <@apeiron> If spectre's not running, there can't be any workflows queued.
05:05 <@apeiron> Are you sure spectre's running?
05:07 < Samus_Aran> I am watching it in debug mode, yes
05:07 < Samus_Aran> okay, the webgui log explains the error as:
05:08 < Samus_Aran> Root cause: Can't call method "get" on an undefined value at /var/www/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/Spectre.pm line 72.
05:08 < Samus_Aran> which is: next unless $instance->getWorkflow->get("enabled");
05:09 <@apeiron> So $instance->getWorkflow is returning undef.
05:09 < Samus_Aran> maybe I should just update to .25
05:09 < Samus_Aran> *35
05:09  * Samus_Aran notices the topic says .32
05:09 < Samus_Aran> the testEnvironment told me .35 was available
05:09 -!- apeiron changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.35-stable / 7.5.10-beta | WRE 0.8.3 ] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org | Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com/ | Find JT and PB at YAPC::NA, buy tickets now! http://conferences.mongueurs.net/yn2008
05:09 <@apeiron> no it doesn't
05:10 <@apeiron> <.<
05:10 < Samus_Aran> hehe
05:10 < Samus_Aran> my mistake
05:10 <@apeiron> No worries, easy mistake to make.
05:10 < Samus_Aran> oh great, now I'm 9 versions behind :p
05:11 < Samus_Aran> will try the update and hopefully this gremlin will take a hike
05:11 <@apeiron> Honestly, first thing I'd try is simply restarting the whole shebang. May not help but I dunno.
05:12 < Samus_Aran> the kernel has probably been updated along the line, though that doesn't usually affect things
05:12 < Samus_Aran> except when the old kernel modules are removed
05:13 < Samus_Aran> it has only been on for 14 days.. the Ubuntu is stupidly running in a VMware Player virtual machine on Windows 2003
05:13 < Samus_Aran> had to do a Windows Update
05:14 < Samus_Aran> I've been given the go ahead to scrap Win2K3 and put Ubuntu straight on the server, but haven't had any time
05:14 <@apeiron> If you're going that route, maybe you should try the WRE?
05:14 < Samus_Aran> there are lots of other web sites and databases running
05:15 <@apeiron> On the Ubuntu VM?
05:15 < Samus_Aran> plus I like security updates to be quick and easy
05:15 < Samus_Aran> yes
05:15 <@apeiron> ah.
05:15 < Samus_Aran> it's quite silly, nothing on Win2K3 is even being used.  the previous tech just sort of patched anything together
05:15 < Samus_Aran> the network was a complete mess, too
05:15 <@apeiron> You could set up Apache's mod_proxy to proxy to the other sites or host them outright, and set up the DB to be shared.
05:16 < Samus_Aran> nothing labelled
05:16 < Samus_Aran> once it isn't in the VM, it will help, as all the RAM will go to the VM.  right now it is limiting it to half
05:16 < Samus_Aran> oh, I checked, only 1/4
05:16 < Samus_Aran> 512MB instead of 2GB
05:16 <@apeiron> Hello, swap city!
05:17 < Samus_Aran> it's also a rack mount server.... sitting on a wooden shelf
05:17 <@apeiron> wood? heh
05:17 < Samus_Aran> they didn't even want to buy a locking metal cabinet with air vents
05:18 < Samus_Aran> anyway, thank you for your help
05:18 < Samus_Aran> I will get back to you after I've done the update if the gremlin lives on
05:18 <@apeiron> no worries, hope things go well for you.
05:18 <@apeiron> I might be in bed by that time, heh
05:18 < Samus_Aran> it will be another day, my brain has melted and it's time for me to go home
05:18 <@apeiron> night night, then.
05:18 < Samus_Aran> goodnight.  *wanders off in the direction of home*
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07:29 < Samus_Aran> be back tomorrow =)
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09:09 < patspam> hi guys, just wondering what the status of Survey 2.0 is? couldn't see it in the 7.5.10 beta
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16:32 < ckotil> If i have a group that can read and edit an asset can i limit access to edit by leaving a user out of the turn admin on group?
16:34 < BartJol> I don't think so...
16:34 < BartJol> the canEdit boolean will be true
16:34 < ckotil> bc if a user cant utrn on admin mode, how will they ever edit an asset?
16:36 < BartJol> trying it
16:36 < ckotil> cool, thanks.
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16:37 < BartJol> ah, indeed
16:37 < ckotil> works?
16:37 < ckotil> nice. this will make my group structure much simpler and easier to manage
16:37 < BartJol> they can't directly
16:38 < BartJol> testing wehether they can do it by a fuvction in the url
16:38 < ckotil> ya i was thinking that.
16:38 < ckotil> ?func=edit
16:39 < BartJol> ah, they can edit, but don't see the edit button
16:39 < ckotil> ok
16:39 < ckotil> thats very good to know. thank you BartJol 
16:41 < BartJol> well it's a free day
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16:41 < BartJol> and it's good for me to know to
16:48 < BartJol> ckotil it's the <tmpl_if showAdmin> variable
16:48 < ckotil> gotcha.
16:48 < BartJol> fror pages
16:49 < BartJol> and 
16:49 < BartJol> <tmpl_if session.var.adminOn for other assets
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16:56 < BartJol> morning
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17:02 < SDuensin> Greetings.
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17:18 <@rizen> I'm thinking that we have to many people from Holland coming to the WUC.
17:18 < BartJol> why?
17:18 <@rizen> And maybe we, as Americans, should stage an uprising and not let them into our country.
17:18 <@rizen> They may invade and try to take us over.
17:18 <@rizen> =)
17:19 < dionak> and make us drink massive amounts of beer?
17:19 < BartJol> so you finally discovered our plans
17:19 < dionak> sounds scary
17:19 <@rizen> exactly dionak
17:20 <@rizen> We still love you Bart
17:20 <@rizen> =)
17:20 < BartJol> well than you just have to feed us beer, and pretend that you're drinking too
17:20 < dionak> lol
17:20 < BartJol> thanks
17:21 < BartJol> today it's national hangover day here
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17:29 < CIA-5> WebGUI: jt * r6288 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 
17:29 < CIA-5> WebGUI: - rfe: subscribe entire user group to a collaboration message board
17:29 < CIA-5> WebGUI: - Added show in forms and is editable properties to group manager.
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17:50 < knowmad> And all's quiet....
17:50 < tavisto> yes it is. heh
17:50 < knowmad> Time for a question!
17:50 < tavisto> I have a question for whoever wants it.
17:50 < knowmad> Shoot
17:51 < BartJol> only thing that happened that JT was expression his fears for dutch people
17:51 < BartJol> but go ahead with the question
17:51 -!- knowmad is now known as aknowmad
17:52 < tavisto> hah, okay.  Has anyone tried using the permissions tab on the settings screen? I created a new user group called "reports" and set the Transactions permissions to that group. However, I tried accessing transactions with a user in that group and it says I dont have the permissions
17:53 < tavisto> I tried to do it directly through the ?op=listTransactions and it comes back with the permissions error
17:53 < BartJol> so that's the commerce system?
17:53 < aknowmad> i haven't tried it
17:54 < tavisto> yeah that's the transactions in WebGUI's commerce system
17:54 < tavisto> but from what I can tell those permissions aren't working
17:55 < aknowmad> 7.5 or 7.4?
17:55 < BartJol> maybe those people should also be in the turn admin on group
17:55 < tavisto> this is latest beta
17:55 < tavisto> yeah I'm just afraid they would mess stuff up :)
17:56 <@preaction> they should only have to be in the correct group
17:56 <@preaction> shouldn't also have to be in Turn Admin On
17:56 < tavisto> yeah, that's what I thought.. I thought you could basically setup ANY regular user group to be able to do those specific functions
17:57 < aknowmad> I've got an SQL question -- what comes back from an unconditional_read request? api docs say it's a result set statement handle. how do I use that to get at the data returned from a SELECT query?
17:58 < BartJol> so your statement is SELECT * from table;?
18:02 < BartJol> oh sorry, misunderstood
18:08 < BartJol> that's a bit too deep for me
18:12 <@preaction> aknowmad, see WebGUI::SQL::ResultSet. something as simple as while ( my $row = $sth->hash ) { ... }
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18:13 < aknowmad> are you referring to api docs or the code?
18:14 < aknowmad> is it a true DBI sth? can I call methods like fetchall_hashref with it?
18:15 <@preaction> not that i know of
18:15 <@preaction> but check the API docs
18:16 < aknowmad> ok, i don't see that method in there so assume it's not availabe
18:16 <@preaction> i don't think it's a subclass, but... if you wanted fetchall_arrayref why are you using $db->read instead of $db->buildArrayRefOfHashRefs
18:16 < aknowmad> i guess it's not a DBI sth
18:17 < aknowmad> ahh, because i didn't know that method was available.... I'm still learning the ins and outs of wG's db workings
18:17 < aknowmad> which brings up another question--when do you recommend using read vs. unconditional_red?
18:17 < aknowmad> s/red/read/
18:20 < aknowmad> also, are these methods essentially helpers that perform prepare and execute in one fell swoop?
18:20 <@preaction> unconditional read is, if i'm not mistaken, "don't error if the statement fails"
18:21 < aknowmad> yes, that's what the docs tell me
18:21 < aknowmad> but i'm wondering what the use case is for this method
18:21 <@preaction> yes, they're essentially helpers that call prepare, execute, and fetch all at once
18:21 <@preaction> when you don't want an error in the read to kill the rest of the process? i dunno, i've never used it
18:21 < aknowmad> that's what i was wondering
18:22 < aknowmad> my thinking is it's not something to use lightly
18:22 < aknowmad> unconditional_read, that is
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18:23 < aknowmad> ok, thanks for the insights preaction
18:23 < aknowmad> morning perlDreamer
18:23 <+perlDreamer> morning aknowmad
18:24 <+perlDreamer> are you _the_ knowmad, or just _a_knowmad?
18:24 < aknowmad> i'm THE knowmad; had some problems with my client reserving just 'knowmad' nick
18:24 < aknowmad> might be b/c i'm laid up in bed sick :(
18:24 <+perlDreamer> oy
18:24 <+perlDreamer> not a good day
18:24 < aknowmad> better than yesterday when i had a 102F fever!
18:25 <+perlDreamer> I recommend lots of hot drinks and SciFi reruns
18:25 < aknowmad> yeah, i've done the teas; i've got a bit of code to write then will be cranking up some Battlestar Galactica reruns
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18:36 < CIA-5> WebGUI: yung * r6289 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): fixed: Thingy: Problem with delete Thing permissions
18:37 <@apeiron> gack, coding while sick is a Bad Idea.
18:37 <+perlDreamer> yeah, it's better to write tests
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23:33 < citronized> hi :)
23:33 <+perlDreamer> Hi
23:33 <+perlDreamer> do you have some WebGUI questions, citronized?
23:35 < citronized> I'm wondering if I can install WebGUI and still use MAMP (Apache+MySQL) for other local sites ?
23:36 <+perlDreamer> yes
23:36 < citronized> do I have to download the source or the WRE ?
23:37 < citronized> I don't want to mess my present configuration :-/
23:37 <+perlDreamer> it is easiest to use the WRE, since it's all optimized to work well together
23:37 <+perlDreamer> and there's nothing stopping you from running other sites on the WRE as static sites
23:38 < citronized> ok, but I'll need to rename some conf files, is that right ?
23:38 <+perlDreamer> perhaps, it depends on what you're trying to do
23:39 < citronized> just trying to try WebGUI :D
23:39 <+perlDreamer> have you tried a demo site yet?
23:39 < citronized> yup
23:39 < citronized> seem to be weel feet to my project :)
23:40 <+perlDreamer> good
23:40 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI tries to meet all sorts of needs
23:40 < citronized> looks like, yup
23:41 < citronized> basically, I need a pool function (perhaps I need to custom it) and an access to a dedicated MySQL DB
23:42 < citronized> and a good user dashboard configuration :)
23:42 < citronized> my project is a free library, so I need to be able to write records, etc.
23:43 < citronized> mange groups
23:43 < citronized> manage
23:44 < citronized> I believe WebGUI is able to meet my needs, isn't it ?
23:44 <+perlDreamer> not sure what a "pool function" is, but WebGUI has very fine grained group and user privileges and a dashboard.
23:47 < citronized> well, I've seen in the demo that polls are limited to 20 answers (excuse my english for the pool :) ) and I might need more answers per question ;)
23:47 <+perlDreamer> ah, not a problem about the english.
23:47 <+perlDreamer> There is a new poll function coming out at the end of May
23:48 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2: ping.  You awake/around?
23:48 < citronized> good news :)
23:48 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2 would know how the new poll works, since he wrote it :)
23:48 < citronized> good
23:49 < citronized> I don't think my needs are that complex :)
23:49 <+perlDreamer> have you seen the i18n.webgui.org site, for translating WebGUI into other languages?
23:49 < citronized> nope
23:49 <+perlDreamer> You can download and install a French language pack
23:49 <+perlDreamer> it's about 38% translated
23:50 <+perlDreamer> or, if you wish, you can actually use that website to contribute back to the project by translating things that aren't done yet
23:51 < citronized> wow, cool way to share, i think :)
23:51 <+perlDreamer> Yeah.  Since I mainly speak english, I try to write tests and help people out in the forums and here on IRC.
23:51 < citronized> perhaps i can help them in spanish too :)
23:52 <+perlDreamer> that would be cool
23:52 <+perlDreamer> there's been a group from Colombia working on the Spanish translation for a while
23:52 <+perlDreamer> they've done a huge amount of work
23:52 < citronized> great
23:53 < citronized> I still haven't read anything about hosting, is there particular server settings needed ?
23:54 <+perlDreamer> http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/source-install
23:54 <+perlDreamer> that's how to do a source install
23:55 < citronized> cool :)
23:56 <+perlDreamer> the wiki has a ton of info on using and installing WebGUI
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23:57 < citronized> mmmh... the source install seems a bit tricky for me :o
23:58 <+perlDreamer> well, you can use the WRE, but you'd need to move your other configs over to its apache
23:59 <+perlDreamer> it might be better to use a different server than your main one for initial tinkering
23:59 < citronized> well, my "server" is my iMac :)
--- Day changed Fri May 02 2008
00:00 <+perlDreamer> that's actually good, since the main WebGUI devs all use Macs
00:00 <+perlDreamer> it will mean fewer hiccups
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00:01 < citronized> what are hiccups ?
00:01 <+perlDreamer> with respect to computers, problems or glitches
00:02 < citronized> ok, aka bugs ? :)
00:02 <+perlDreamer> with respect to people, it's when the diaphragm muscle contracts quickly
00:02 <+perlDreamer> yeah
00:02 < citronized> right, i get it ;)
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00:04 < citronized> to host webgui do I need more then apache, MySQL and PHP ?
00:05 <+perlDreamer> no PHP, perl
00:05 <+perlDreamer> perl and mod_perl
00:05 <+perlDreamer> and yes, you do
00:05 < citronized> oh, ok
00:05 <+perlDreamer> ImageMagick
00:05 < citronized> ok
00:05 <+perlDreamer> a ton of perl modules
00:06 <+perlDreamer> it should all be there in the wiki page
00:06 < citronized> so an Unix server i guess ?
00:06 <+perlDreamer> no, it will run on Windows, Macs and Linux/Unix
00:06 < citronized> ok
00:06 <+perlDreamer> well, Macs nowadays are really BSD/Unix based
00:07 < citronized> i'm gonna look deeper in the wiki then ;)
00:07 < citronized> sure they are
00:08 < citronized> my present personal website use Joomla, but it seems that webgui is even more intuitive :)
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00:11 < citronized> I'm wondering about the client side code, are the webgui site W3C compliant ?
00:11 <@preaction> yes. it uses XHTML 1.0 Strict with a text/html doctype
00:12 < citronized> that's a really good news :)
00:13 <+perlDreamer> citronized: you said this is for a library?
00:13 < citronized> kind of, yup
00:13 < citronized> about mini cars :)
00:14 < citronized> die-cast and stuff :)
00:14 <+perlDreamer> sounds fun
00:14 < citronized> I allready have some 16.000 refs for my DB
00:14 < citronized> but i want it collaborative
00:15 < citronized> i want people to share, build a kind of qualitative library :)
00:16 < citronized> with some control on what people post and share
00:17 < citronized> dunno if it's hard to make a form to write records in an separate DB ?
00:21 <+perlDreamer> for that, either use the SQL Form or the new Thingy that is coming out (end of May)
00:21 <+perlDreamer> for simple reporting, use the SQL Report
00:26 < citronized> ok
00:27 < citronized> seems easy :)
00:28 <+perlDreamer> for the most part it is.
00:28 < citronized> i guess it can be more tricky to control the data
00:29 < citronized> or stuff like that :)
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00:49 < citronized> are those perl module enough to install webgui ? (i may host my site there :) )
00:49 < citronized> http://start.ovh.net/infos/perl.cgi
00:51 <+perlDreamer> will this hoster give you command line access to your site?
00:51 < citronized> dunno :-/
00:51 <+perlDreamer> you have to have command line access to install WebGUI on another hoster
00:51 < citronized> mmh
00:52 < citronized> ok
00:52 <+perlDreamer> in order to start up spectre and edit the config files
00:53 < citronized> right, i've seen that in the installation guide, but i haven't though that the hoster would need it :o
00:54 < citronized> maybe I should start building a local server, but will I be able to migrate it to another host, later ?
00:55 <+perlDreamer> yes, as long as you have command line access
00:55 <+perlDreamer> or, you could use a WebGUI hoster, like Plain Black or Procolix
00:55 <+perlDreamer> Plain Black does a lot of hosting here in the US, and Procolix is a Dutch company
00:57 < citronized> can they host french sites ?
00:57 < citronized> i guess not
00:57 <+perlDreamer> sure, I don't see why not
00:57 < citronized> dunno, sometimes, internet isn't that virtual :)
00:57 <+perlDreamer> true
00:59 < citronized> does plain black allows upgrades ? I mean if my site become serious, will I be able to upgrade datastorage and stuff ?
00:59 <+perlDreamer> yes
01:00 < citronized> cool :)
01:00 < citronized> i should take a look to plain black offers, then :)
01:01 <+perlDreamer> yes
01:02 < citronized> what is the best beginners hosting ? :) 
01:03 <+perlDreamer> unsupported, basic hosting is $20/month
01:03 <+perlDreamer> https://www.plainblack.com/services/hosting/unsupported-site-hosting
01:04 <+perlDreamer> hosting with support is $50/month
01:04 <+perlDreamer> https://www.plainblack.com/services/hosting/supported-virtual-hosting
01:04 <@rizen> a lot of people start out with the $50/mo package and then downgrade to the $20 once they're comfortable
01:04 <+perlDreamer> not speaking Dutch, I can't tell you how the comparable rates are for Procolix
01:05 < citronized> not speakin dutch either :)
01:05 <+perlDreamer> rizen: will Thingy require an extra db like the SQL Form?
01:05 <@rizen> no
01:06 <@rizen> if you email koen@procolix.nl he will speak English with you
01:06 < citronized> ok, ty rizen ;)
01:09 <+perlDreamer> need to reboot, be back in a bit
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01:17 < citronized> seems that plain black is slightly cheaper, and provide more :)
01:19 < citronized> ok guys, thank for your help, it's a bit late here, I need some sleep :)
01:19 <+perlDreamer> good night
01:19 < citronized> hope i'll see you around ;)
01:20 < citronized> bye
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01:21 <+perlDreamer> hopefully we helped another new WebGUI user today :)
01:30 <@rizen> perlDreamer rulez
01:31 <@rizen> if i had to do my PBWG interview over again, on the "What is WebGUI's killer feature?" question, I'd answer: perlDreamer
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01:44 <+perlDreamer> thanks, dude
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02:06 < CIA-5> WebGUI: colin * r6290 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): 
02:06 < CIA-5> WebGUI: Handle null productNumbers in the Product variant translation.
02:06 < CIA-5> WebGUI: Update the product loading script to add more products.
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03:41 < snapcount> yes it finally works!
03:42 < snapcount> I wrote a POE daemon with IKC that wraps a POE IRC bot
03:42 < snapcount> so I can send messages to chat channels from other perl scripts with like three lines of code
03:43 < snapcount> I wanted to use the CIA thing but our repos is not public
03:43 < snapcount> and installing it on your own server was... well a bit messy
03:44 < snapcount> if anyone is interested I'll give you the code... it's very very simple
03:44 < snapcount> but works nicely
03:44 < snapcount> anyways... gotta head home... bbl
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05:22 < patspam> can anyone give me a heads-up on the current state of play with Survey 2.0? I didn't see it in the 7.5.10 beta?
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05:51 <@preaction> patspam, it will hopefully be in 7.5.11. the author says his deadline for his sponsors is this week
05:51 <@preaction> patspam, if you want to try it, there's a Survey 2.0 branch in https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/branch
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06:10 < patspam> ah fantastic, thanks preaction
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06:54 <+perlDreamer> rizen: art thou awake?
07:29 <+perlDreamer> I need some help designing the variant table to work with collateral
07:29 <+perlDreamer> It's probably easier than I'm making it
07:29 <+perlDreamer> but I'll catch you tomorrow
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08:02 < CIA-5> WebGUI: colin * r6291 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.5.10-7.5.11.pl: new variant table schema
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10:31 < BartJol> morning
11:45 < BartJol> awfully quiet here
11:45 < BartJol> well let me state a question then
11:45 < BartJol> I try to turn on my awstats
11:46 < BartJol> [Fri May 02 10:31:14 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] Options ExecCGI is off in this directory: /data/wre/prereqs/wwwroot/awstats.pl
11:46 < BartJol> this error comes up
11:46 < BartJol> I tried to add ExecCGI to alle the necessary options
11:47 < BartJol> but no result and my modproxy want restart because of it
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15:17 < BartJol> hee knowmad, already figured out the unconditionalRead stuff?
15:22 < ckotil> Is there a way to prevent a subset of assets from getting indexed by search?
15:23 < ckotil> users want a 'staging area' on the production sites. bleh
15:23 <+MrHairgrease> well, you could limit the scope of the search assets
15:23 <+MrHairgrease> you can select the brach it searches trhough
15:24 <+MrHairgrease> or you could set the privs of the assets toi something visitors don't see
15:24 < ckotil> yah, that could work. but i have a global search that searches from root on down. perhaps i can tweak that a little.
15:24 <+MrHairgrease> ah
15:24 < ckotil> yah, that could work. ill try it out. thanks MrHairgrease 
15:24 <+MrHairgrease> you prolly don't want that anyway since that also include all the stuff in the import node
15:25 < knowmad> hi BartJol; yes, i got the answer i was needing
15:25 < ckotil> your right :)
15:25 <+MrHairgrease> no problemo
15:25 < ckotil> noones complained about that tho. im waiting to hear somehting like 'what are all these templates doing in search?'
15:25 < BartJol> good to hear
15:25 < knowmad> yeah, and the code I wrote appears to be working!
15:26 < BartJol> congrats
15:26 < knowmad> yeah, we have a team of 20 working round the clock on a queue; had some record locking problems that was causing multiple users to get the same record from the queue which is bad in many ways
15:28 < BartJol> doesn't sound good, and 20 people?! whoah
15:28 < knowmad> yeah, there's lots of potential for race conditions
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15:58 < SDuensin> Greetings.
15:59 <+MrHairgrease> Greasings
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16:36 < CIA-5> WebGUI: martin * r6292 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Shop/Cart.pm: Fixed a bug that prevented updating the cart
16:36 <+MrHairgrease> rizen, are you awake?
16:42 <@rizen> yeah
16:42 <+MrHairgrease> ok
16:42 <+MrHairgrease> I cannot set a shipping address
16:42 <+MrHairgrease> no errors
16:42 <+MrHairgrease> so i strated digging
16:42 <@rizen> it's because i programmed that in there to prevent you from doing it
16:43 <+MrHairgrease> in the end i added an eval in the address book content handler
16:43 <+MrHairgrease> and then it gave me a 'cannot call method session on an undefined value in line 433'
16:44 <+MrHairgrease> that is in Shop::AddressBook->www_view
16:44 <+MrHairgrease> oh crap
16:44 <+MrHairgrease> found it i think
16:44 <+MrHairgrease> let me try
16:46 <+MrHairgrease> yeah that seems to do it
16:46 <+MrHairgrease> the problem was this:
16:46 <+MrHairgrease> if (my $sub = $cart->can($method)) { $sub->() }
16:47 <+MrHairgrease> i changed that to 
16:47 <+MrHairgrease> if (my $sub = $cart->can($method)) { $cart->$method() }
16:48 <+MrHairgrease> why is that construction used anyway?
16:50 <@rizen> oh
16:50 <@rizen> that was something i was trying out, and forgot to put back
16:50 <+MrHairgrease> ok
16:50 <+MrHairgrease> I'll turn it into the working state then
16:50 <@rizen> graham said it would work, but it didn't
16:50 <@rizen> sorry about that
16:51 <+MrHairgrease> nm, chasing weird bugs keeps me off the streets
16:51 <+MrHairgrease> question about the subscriptions
16:51 <+MrHairgrease> should I implement the subscription code thing on a per supscription basis
16:51 <+MrHairgrease> taht is, put it in the subscription asset
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16:52 <@rizen> yes please
16:52 <+MrHairgrease> ok
16:52 <@rizen> and we'll remove the "redeem subscription" link from the profile links
16:52 <@rizen> which nobody could ever find anyway
16:52 <+MrHairgrease> yeah, and move that into the asset of course
16:52 <@rizen> exactly
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16:57 < ckotil> wow, im performing a ginourmous cut/paste. its taking a whle, i hope it doesnt time out.
16:57 < ckotil> thankfully, on a test instance.
17:03 < ckotil> :x thought it was , anyway.
17:03 < ckotil> worked out.
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17:21 <+MrHairgrease> yay, the basic subscription stuff works
17:21 <+MrHairgrease> proceeding with the codes
17:23 < BartJol> oh rizen maybe this is a nice wuc theme "By God, I think the Devil shits Dutchmen!" (Samuel Pepys, English marine officer)
17:24 <+MrHairgrease> Bart, I'm not sure whether that is a Good Thing...
17:25 < BartJol> oh?
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> but it's true anyway =)
17:25 < BartJol> well, from JT's point of biew it is
17:25 < BartJol> and it's historical reoccurring it seems
17:25 < BartJol> the feeling, that is
17:26 <+MrHairgrease> hm, I have not a specific feeling about shitting devils
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> biertje?
17:27 < BartJol> nou
17:27 < BartJol> lijkt me wel wat
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> als jij ze nou even pakt, dan krijg je em van oqapi
17:42 < CIA-5> WebGUI: martin * r6293 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Content/Shop.pm: Reverted a problem which caused the address book content handler to fail
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18:02 < ckotil> anyone have a file import script that also handles directories? turning them into folder assets? fileImport.pl doesnt seem to do that.
18:02 <+MrHairgrease> That's been on my todo list for a long time
18:03 <+MrHairgrease> but I never have found the tim eto do it
18:03 < ckotil> this siteimport.pl might do it actually. but its a pain to use.
18:03 <+MrHairgrease> It shouldn't be to difficult though
18:03 < ckotil> heh, im not a very good programmer.
18:06 < dionak> topsub created a modified version of fileImport.pl to create folders recently.
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18:10 < dionak> basically, the method checked to see if the folder already existed. if not, addChild is called with the className WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Folder to create it
18:13 <+MrHairgrease> rizen: looking at the original code it seems that it was possible to tie multiple subscriptions to a subscription code
18:13 <+MrHairgrease> however the form element seems to have allowed only one
18:14 <+MrHairgrease> is it okay to have a one-to-one subscription<->code relation?
18:14 <@rizen> yup
18:14 <+MrHairgrease> ok
18:16 < ckotil> dionak: is the modified script posted in contributions?
18:17 < dionak> no, it's not. it's not generalized...
18:17 < dionak> but the basic idea is there
18:17 < ckotil> ok
18:18 < dionak> has anyone done subscriptions in 7.4.29? I've been asked to do this. I know you guys are working on it for 7.5.x
18:18 <+MrHairgrease> yeah they exist in 7.4 too
18:18 <+MrHairgrease> that is the old commerce system
18:18 < dionak> ok, let me dig around a bit...
18:19 <+MrHairgrease> there in the admin console
18:19 <+MrHairgrease> gotta gop
18:19 <+MrHairgrease> later
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18:47 < dionak> i just setup some subscriptions but when i try to subscribe, the site reports 'Shipping is not possible because no shipping plugins are enabled'. why would i need shipping for subscriptions? 
18:47 < dionak> or is this what you guys are addressing?
18:48 < dionak> btw, i got the info from the administrator's guide. very helpful
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19:02 <@rizen> shipping determines tax rate
19:02 <@rizen> whether you ship something or not
19:11 < dionak> but how does that tie to subscriptions? there's no option in relation to a subscription for shipping.
19:11 < dionak> i see that for product
19:12 < dionak> oh, wait..
19:13 < dionak> i see. i just enabled shipping in the commerce admin console
19:19 <+perlDreamer> rizen: do you have time to talk about the product variant table?
19:20 <@rizen> i will in a few, i'll let you know
19:20 <@rizen> you can start typing your questions if you want
19:21 <+perlDreamer> I'll start with the background
19:21 <+perlDreamer> table definition at docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.5.10-7.5.11.pl, line 595
19:22 <+perlDreamer> I was thinking that variants should be more Product collateral, so that their display order can be rearranged by the user
19:22 <+perlDreamer> I wanted to use the variant sku as the primary key
19:22 <+perlDreamer> however, the collateral code won't let me use arbitrary keys as collateral indexes
19:23 <+perlDreamer> it really wants to use GUIDs
19:23 <+perlDreamer> similarly, it prefers to use assetId to identify parentage, but I was planning on using mastersku (sku of parent asset) 
19:24 <+perlDreamer> that's all to support inventory sync'ing
19:24 <+perlDreamer> so then I built a table schema that has variant sku, mastersku, assetId and variantId
19:24 <+perlDreamer> and it seems like wasted space
19:24 <+perlDreamer> I'm worrying too much about something in there, but I can't figure out what
19:25 <+perlDreamer> I'm curious how you'd do this, but more importantly, why you would make the decisions you'd make to arrive at a solution
19:25 <@rizen> first, don't store mastersku with the variant
19:25 <@rizen> mastersku is changable by the user
19:26 <@rizen> so the relationship has to be maintained by assetId
19:26 <@rizen> and also, sku is changable by user, therefore using a variantid guid is still a good idea, and therefore collateral still works
19:27 <@rizen> you should never use something changable by a user a as a primary key
19:27 <@rizen> so how i would do it is to have a table that looks like:
19:29 <@rizen> create table Product_variant ( variantId varchar(22) binary not null primary key, assetId varchar(22) binary not null, sku varchar(35) binary not null, ........, sequenceNumber int not null default 1, index assetId_sequenceNumber (assetId, sequenceNumber))
19:29 <@rizen> OR
19:30 <@rizen> even better would be to move all the collateral tables of product into json blob fields as mediumtext into the product, so that the product could be deployed as a package or a prototype
19:31 <+perlDreamer> from what I've seen, packages can be deployed with collateral
19:31 <+perlDreamer> and I've already gone down the path of JSON madness, and it was no fun
19:31 <@rizen> packages can be
19:31 <+perlDreamer> but not prototypes
19:31 <@rizen> but you still lose out on versioning and prototypes
19:32 <+perlDreamer> true
19:32 <@rizen> the json stuff isn't necessary if you don't want to do it...i just think it would be better
19:32 <+perlDreamer> in either case, still need to work out the schema
19:33 <@rizen> the schema for what?
19:33 <+perlDreamer> if you grab the 2008-04 log from mentalhouse and look at line 11509, you'll see that we decided that we needed master sku in the variant for inventory sync'ing
19:33 <@rizen> i just gave you the schema for variant
19:33 <@rizen> no we didn't
19:33 <@rizen> we need a master sku
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19:34 <@rizen> we DON'T need it in the variant
19:34 <+perlDreamer> ah
19:34 <@rizen> we have it in the product
19:34 <@rizen> the product inherits sku from WebGUI::Asset::Sku
19:34 <@rizen> so we have our master sku right there
19:34 <+perlDreamer> okay
19:34 <@rizen> and varients have assetId
19:34 <@rizen> so you have the relationship
19:36 <+perlDreamer> okay, I'm straightened out
19:36 <@rizen> sweet
19:37 <+perlDreamer> so my apprenticeship lessons are:
19:38 <+perlDreamer> 1) Don't get confused by CSV requirements and table schemas
19:38 <+perlDreamer> 2) Don't use anything the user can touch as a primary key
19:39 <@rizen> correct
19:39 <@rizen> oh...and that JSON blobs, while tricky, aren't bad
19:39 <@rizen> they give users more features
19:39 <@rizen> and per my black blog posting today, they may actually become a requirement for collateral storage
19:40  * perlmonkey2 really needs to get his feedreader working with wG.
19:40 <+perlDreamer> well, I'll try to get my feet wet then
19:44 <@apeiron> hmm, has anyone thought about using http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/history/ for the various admin console / func=edit type features in wG? Basically it allows for word processor-like undo/redo and the like for Webapps.
19:45 <@rizen> i've thought about firing you for making suggestions
19:45 <+perlmonkey2> apeiron: wow
19:45 <+perlDreamer> I thought you were trying to give him a complex
19:45 <@rizen> but then i realized that your a valuable employee
19:45 <@rizen> =)
19:46 <@apeiron> You know, psychologically abusing people like that can make them lash out.
19:48 <@rizen> i'm just trying to get you pumped up for the annual Plain Black golden gloves tournament. You're in my weight class aren't you?
19:48 <@rizen> =)
19:48 < dionak> i need to get more input on subscriptions. we have a publication site that has several types of subscriptions. for instance, one group has access to 5 publications, another 6. so we made a group for each publication and then subscription groups, like 'Member' and 'Member Plus'. I created subscriptions and assigned them to each group ('Member', 'Member Plus'). 
19:49 <@rizen> you're right so far dionak
19:49 < dionak> What I'd like to see happen is that when a subscription expires, the user is prompted to subscribe again. How can I set this up so a user is prompted to renew the type of subscription they had and test this?
19:50 < dionak> btw, i've been updating the wiki as I go along here
19:50 <+perlDreamer> isn't there a group expire message field in the group?
19:50 < dionak> looking...
19:50 < CIA-5> WebGUI: graham * r6294 /WebGUI/docs/ (changelog/7.x.x.txt upgrades/upgrade_7.5.10-7.5.11.pl): removed legacy wgFieldUserData table
19:51 <+perlDreamer> exipreNotify, expireOffset, expireNotifyMessage
19:51 <+perlDreamer> not sure if they're exposed through the group interface yet...
19:52 <+perlDreamer> yes it is
19:53 < dionak> so when the subscription expires, the user is expired from the subscription group based on the subscription term or group expiration, or both?
19:54 <+perlDreamer> I _think_ they're tied together, so both
19:54 <+perlDreamer> the group is created based on the subscription?
19:54 < dionak> and the notify occurs via email....
19:54 <+perlDreamer> yes
19:54 <+perlDreamer> also the WebGUI Inbox
19:54 < dionak> well, the group is associated with the subscription.
19:54 <+perlDreamer> Workflow/Activity/ExpireGroupings.pm
19:54 < dionak> ok
19:55 < dionak> so i could use the GroupText macro to test if they are in the group and, if not, i would need to send them back through the commerce piece to choose a subscription.
19:55 < dionak> no way to know what group they were in..
19:55 <@rizen> huh
19:55 < dionak> i'm thinking of the web interface only here
19:55 <+perlDreamer> Different macros for different groups
19:56 <+perlDreamer> well, same macro, different instances checking for different group membership
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19:56 <+perlDreamer> The user's group expire date is set by the subscription, see the apply method in WebGUI::Subscription
19:56 <+perlDreamer> so it will work correctly
19:56 < dionak> but they would be expired from a group, correct?
19:56 <+perlDreamer> yes
19:57 < dionak> so how would i know what their subscription was?
19:57 < dionak> it's not critical but i'm curious
19:57 < dionak> i guess i could look it up in one of the subscription tables?
19:57 <+perlDreamer> you _could_ write a counterpart to the GroupText macro that only displayed text if the user was about to expire
19:58 <+perlDreamer> it would check the Group's expire notify offset settings and display text appropriately
19:59 <+perlDreamer> might be a good core addition too, to complement C2
20:01 < dionak> hm, i wouldn't mind doing that and it would be entertaining (and short) to write but i don't think it fits this situation. we altered search.pm to make a public search. if a user doesn't have permission, i want to prompt them to login or expire. i think i can do this via the login template
20:07 <+perlDreamer> if you can, it should save you the time of writing and testing the macro, so it sounds like a good call
20:18 < CIA-5> WebGUI: graham * r6295 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): fixed: Thingy: Importing data can fail with some internal field Ids
20:21 < dionak> thanks for the input. i'm going to try that route
20:40 < CIA-5> WebGUI: yung * r6296 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): fixed: Thingy: Problem with add_url tmpl_var permissions
20:40 < CIA-5> WebGUI: yung * r6297 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm: fix: Thingy: edit thing doesn't show any saved properties
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21:32 < ckotil> any idea why a 78k pdf would appear to be 3MB in webgui? 
21:33 <+perlmonkey2> Is there a trick to gettign modproxy to like new certs and keys?  I just copied over my existing ones from apache.
21:49 -!- rizenlikeslunch is now known as rizen
22:03 < ckotil> oh i see. the asset has a brazillion revisions.
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22:59 -!- Netsplit over, joins: DX^, diakopter
23:28 < CIA-5> WebGUI: jt * r6298 /WebGUI/ (t/Cache lib/WebGUI/Cache/Database.pm t/Cache/Database.t): added some database cache tests while testing out a theory, the theory is busted, but at least we have some more tests
23:32 <+perlDreamer> rizen, what was the theory?
23:33 <@rizen> it was actually haarg's theory. the idea was that if we cached the prepared statement on database backed cache we'd get a significant performance boost since the query to retrieve cache might be used a hundred times per request
23:34 <@rizen> however, if there was a performance gain, it was so small it couldn't be measured by Time::HiRes
23:34 <@rizen> it was a great theory
23:34 <@rizen> unfortunately it just didn't hold water, which is too bad
23:35 <+perlDreamer> I've heard of other things like that at OSCON talks
23:35 <+perlDreamer> cached queries, memcached being a huge performance gain
23:38 <@rizen> how big of a gain could it be if it's so small that it can't be measured by Time::HiRes
23:38 <@rizen> =)
23:39 <@rizen> the difference is statistically insignificant
23:39 <+perlDreamer> I believe you
23:39 <@rizen> Then again, we are talking about measuring things than are are less than 0.003 seconds
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00:21 < charleyhankins> Hi!  Anyone here really familiar with Thingy?
00:21 <+perlDreamer> nope
00:21 <+perlDreamer> have you checked the forums and the bug list?
00:21 < charleyhankins> yeah.  I've been working in the forums.
00:22 <+perlDreamer> are you having problems, or asking for best practices, or something else?
00:22 < charleyhankins> I'm using it, but having a couple of issues.  wondering if anyone could help me out.
00:22 <+perlDreamer> I'll give it a shot
00:22 <+perlDreamer> what's up?
00:22 < charleyhankins> thanks.  basically i need my thingy search to operate like this: http://goeldorado.com/chamberSearch.aspx?section=work
00:23 < charleyhankins> but having trouble with the category drop down.
00:23 <+perlDreamer> what kind of trouble?
00:23 < charleyhankins> I'm here: http://web402.plainblack.net/home/great-place-to-live/chamber-of-commerce/membership
00:24 < charleyhankins> as you can see.  the drop down pulls directly from the dbase.  And when I search using it, it returns no results.
00:24 < charleyhankins> I also need it be be alphabetical.
00:25 <@rizen> i don't have time to look at it, but if the search isn't working then it very well could be a bug
00:25 <@rizen> as far as alphabetical, that would be an RFE
00:25 <+perlDreamer> yeah, I'd say you found a bug
00:25 <@rizen> although i think that RFE has already been implemented in 7.5.11
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00:25 <@rizen> which won't be released until after May 31st
00:26 <+perlDreamer> charleyharkins: you have a paid support contract from Plain Black?
00:26 < charleyhankins> problem is, I need this fixed by monday.
00:26 < charleyhankins> yeah.
00:26 < charleyhankins> but it's slow going. 
00:26 <@rizen> then post your questions there
00:26 < charleyhankins> i have.
00:27 <@rizen> you have only basic support, which guarantees a response within 48 hours...so yeah, it will be a bit slow going
00:27 <@rizen> and since it's 4:27 on a friday
00:27 <@rizen> i guarantee you that any problems you are having with thingy will not be resolved by monday
00:27 < charleyhankins> i've been working with this for weeks.
00:27 < charleyhankins> right.
00:27 < charleyhankins> anyway, thanks for your help.
00:28 <@rizen> report the bug
00:28 <@rizen> but regarding having problems...i'm sure that this was explained to you when you signed up for the beta server
00:28 <@rizen> it is a beta after all.=)
00:29 < charleyhankins> sure.  let me ask you this question then.  Is there another way to accomplish this within WebGUI? http://www.goeldorado.com/chamberSearch.aspx?section=work
00:30 <@rizen> i have no idea what i'm looking at
00:30 <@rizen> looks like a page to me
00:30 <+perlDreamer> search function with text entry fields and some dropdowns
00:30 < charleyhankins> yes.
00:30 <@rizen> i see a webgui site
00:30 <@rizen> are you guys seeing something else?
00:31 <+perlDreamer> yeah
00:31 <@rizen> hmmm...my dns must be screwed up
00:31 <+perlDreamer> I see a search form with text fields and dropdowns for selecting categories
00:31 < charleyhankins> i have a db of businesses.  they need to be searchable by business name, last name, category.  The category needs to be drop down box.
00:32 <@rizen> have you chosen "Select Box" as your field type in Thingy?
00:32 <@rizen> for category
00:32 < charleyhankins> yes.  and it is when editing the field, but the search box is always a text box.
00:32 <@rizen> if you have, then it will be a dropdown in the search
00:32 <@rizen> oh
00:32 < charleyhankins> no, it's not.
00:33 <@rizen> if it's not display a dropdown in search then that's a bug
00:33 <@rizen> the search should display the same field type as the edit form
00:33 < charleyhankins> can i create a seperate dropdown search for that particular field in the search template?
00:33 <@rizen> i don't know i haven't looked into the templates that much
00:33 < charleyhankins> how would I code that in particular?
00:34 <@rizen> one thing you could do is create another Thing in that Thingy called "Category"
00:34 <@rizen> and populate it with your list of categories
00:34 <@rizen> then that would drop down a list in the search
00:34 < charleyhankins> that's what I have.  and it populates with categories, but does not return results.
00:34 <@rizen> then that's a bug and you should report it
00:35 <@rizen> and as far as fixing it by Monday you're screwed
00:35 < charleyhankins> ha!  ok. thanks.
00:35 <@rizen> the only other advice i have would be to try to create a category using the Radio List field type
00:35 <@rizen> maybe that would display as a radio list in the search results
00:35 <@rizen> which is ugly
00:35 <@rizen> but at least it would work
00:35 < charleyhankins> sure.  but, hey... right
00:36 < charleyhankins> i'll give it a go.
00:36 < charleyhankins> thanks.
00:36 <+perlDreamer> how about not using the template field for that form, but building the select box with a SQL macro and HTML right in the template?
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01:06 <@apeiron> May it be known, across the lands, for all to hear, that apeiron hates JS.
01:06 <+perlDreamer> indeed
01:06 <@apeiron> Well, HTML and CSS, too.
01:06 <@apeiron> And SQL.
01:06 <+perlDreamer> btw, you're not doing too bad.  The message got to Oregon :)
01:07 <+perlDreamer> How does SQL rank against JS?
01:07 <@apeiron> eh
01:07 <@apeiron> Other projects I can use DBIx::Class and such.
01:07 <@apeiron> JS... there's no escape.
01:07 <+perlDreamer> I like SQL better than JS
01:07 <+perlDreamer> because you can hide behind a lot of perl :)
01:08 <@apeiron> yeah.
01:08 <@apeiron> That doesn't make me 'like' SQL any more.
01:08 <@apeiron> If I wasn't a teetotaler, JS would drive me to drink.
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01:17 <+perlmonkey2> apeiron: or is it just the YUI?
01:18 <@apeiron> perlmonkey2, YUI is nice, but JS is JS and there's a hundred different little inconsistencies between browsers that don't exist in perlland.
01:18 <@apeiron> (and the inconsistencies that *do* exist in perlland are documented in perldelta)
01:19 <+perlDreamer> well, to be fair, not all of them are
01:19 <@apeiron> Oh?
01:19 <+perlDreamer> Consider working on Windows, Solaris, and Fedora
01:19 <@apeiron> ah.
01:19 <+perlmonkey2> YUI does insulate you against most of the browser problems.
01:19 <@apeiron> perldoc perlport. :)
01:19 <@apeiron> perlmonkey2, Yeah, when you're doing YUI things.
01:19 <+perlDreamer> that won't cover the fedora issues
01:19 <@apeiron> heh
01:19 <@apeiron> perldoc psychiatrist
01:28 -!- mode/#webgui [+b *!*@189.4.48.48] by apeiron
01:28 <@apeiron> (preventative measures; they were in #perl spewing CCs and SSNs)
01:28 <+perlDreamer> huh?
01:28 <+perlDreamer> what is +b?
01:28 <@apeiron> ban
01:29 <@apeiron> cannot enter channel and if in channel when ban is placed, cannot speak or reenter
01:29 < nuba> awesome, lets quickly /j #perl
01:29 < nuba> now seriously, that sucks
01:30  * apeiron nods
01:30 < nuba> probably some disaffected college student
01:30 <+perlDreamer> yeah, you know those college students
01:31 <+perlDreamer> always causing trouble
01:31  * apeiron looks around shiftily
01:31 <@apeiron> I've, uh, I've no idea what you're talking about!
01:32  * perlDreamer seems to remember that nuba is similarly attending a place of higher education
01:32 < nuba> im a college student here, CS baccaulaureate, but i've left the disaffected part behind already
01:32 < nuba> im just too busy to spend time with that
01:33 < nuba> but you can sense it around, anyway
01:33 < nuba> young people looking for trouble
01:33 < nuba> those punks! 
01:33 < nuba> lol
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02:01 <+perlDreamer> easy there, nuba
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02:04 < Lisette> hello perlDreamer
02:04 <+perlDreamer> congratulations on your team winning the t-shirt contest, lisette
02:04 < Lisette> thanks
02:04 < Lisette> i have a question around apache
02:05 <+perlDreamer> okay
02:05 < Lisette> i can use the apace 1.3.x?
02:05 < Lisette> apache
02:05 <+perlDreamer> I don't think so.  Apache 2.x
02:05 <+perlDreamer> mainly because of mod_perl 2.x
02:05 <+perlDreamer> you could try it, but no promises on how it works
02:05 < Lisette> thanks
02:12 <+perlDreamer> Porque quiere usar un Apache tan viejo?
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07:04 < CIA-5> WebGUI: jt * r6299 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): started migrating ems data
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08:55 < CIA-5> WebGUI: jt * r6300 /WebGUI/ (15 files in 10 dirs): The concept of "realtime" workflow has been eliminated. Instead all workflows are now realtime (synchronous), and roll over to be asynchronous if they cannot complete succesfully and immediately.
08:55 < CIA-5> WebGUI: colin * r6301 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 
08:55 < CIA-5> WebGUI: Product variant creation is held off until we can finalize
08:55 < CIA-5> WebGUI: the variant code.
08:55 < CIA-5> WebGUI: Began building JSON based variant code, and a test for
08:55 < CIA-5> WebGUI: verifying how it works. set, get and delete collateral
08:55 < CIA-5> WebGUI: are implemented. Still need to build moveUp and moveDown.
08:55 < CIA-5> WebGUI: Lots of tests to be written.
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18:37 <+perlDreamer> rizen:  You late night hackin' monster!
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22:33 <+perlDreamer> rizen: you were right (again).  Properly encapsulated, this JSON stuff isn't so bad.
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23:55 < CIA-5> WebGUI: colin * r6302 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Sku/ProductCollateral.t: more product collateral tests
23:55 < CIA-5> WebGUI: colin * r6303 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): deleteCollateral tests, and detab Sku/Product.pm
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00:33 <+perlDreamer> rizen: would it be bad to make moveUp and moveDown collateral to wrap around (in the new Product collateral)?
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01:21 <+perlDreamer> apeiron, preaction_: what's the SQL subquery for getting the latest revision of all assets in a table?
01:22 <+perlDreamer> SELECT p.assetId,  p.revisionDate, a.title, s.sku     FROM Product   AS p     JOIN assetData AS a         on p.assetId=a.assetId and p.revisionDate=a.revisionDate     JOIN sku       AS s         on p.assetId=s.assetId and p.revisionDate=s.revisionDate;
01:22 <+perlDreamer> that's close, but not quote enough
01:22 <+perlDreamer> this is closer: SELECT p.assetId,  p.revisionDate, a.title, s.sku     FROM Product   AS p     JOIN assetData AS a         on p.assetId=a.assetId and p.revisionDate=a.revisionDate     JOIN sku       AS s         on p.assetId=s.assetId and p.revisionDate=s.revisionDate     WHERE p.revisionDate=(SELECT MAX(revisionDate) FROM Product);
01:23 <@apeiron> hm
01:24 <+perlDreamer> I need a max revisionDate for each assetId
01:24 <+perlDreamer> because that gives me the biggest in the whole table
01:24 <@apeiron> How does the latter differ from that?
01:24 <+perlDreamer> let's say I have three assets, a1, a2, a3
01:25 <+perlDreamer> each was committed one minute apart
01:25 <+perlDreamer> my last query will only give me 1 asset, from a3
01:25 <+perlDreamer> rather than the latest versions of a1 and a2
01:25 <@apeiron> Ah.
01:27 <+perlDreamer> the good news is that JSON based collateral is working
01:27 <+perlDreamer> I just can't upgrade from Wobject based products to Sku based products because of the query
01:27 <+perlDreamer> I'll grind on it while I'm taking the tiller to the shop.
01:28 <+perlDreamer> thanks for listening, apeiron!
01:28 <@apeiron> I may have a solution, trying it out.
01:28 <@apeiron> Have you thought of putting a WHERE clause in the subquery?
01:28 <@apeiron> (for the assetId)
02:33 <+perlDreamer> hm
02:34 <+perlDreamer> no, I hadn't
02:36 <+perlDreamer> the problem is that I don't know at that point which assetId I want, since the query returns them
02:37 <+perlDreamer> maybe I need to dig into AssetLineage and see what's going on there
02:37 <+perlDreamer> or the Template form variable
02:42 <+perlDreamer> got it
02:42 <+perlDreamer> SELECT p.assetId,  p.revisionDate, a.title, s.sku     FROM Product   AS p     JOIN assetData AS a         on p.assetId=a.assetId and p.revisionDate=a.revisionDate     JOIN sku       AS s         on p.assetId=s.assetId and p.revisionDate=s.revisionDate     WHERE p.revisionDate=(SELECT MAX(Product.revisionDate) FROM Product where Product.assetId=a.assetId);
02:43 <+perlDreamer> preaction_ is going to get mad if I keep doing that
02:45 <+perlDreamer> apeiron: you were exactly right
02:45 <+perlDreamer> I'm just too SQL-newbified to understand
02:45 <+perlDreamer> thanks for the tip, dude!
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07:49 < CIA-5> WebGUI: colin * r6305 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): conversion of Product from Wobjects to Skus with variants is done
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18:49 <@apeiron> perlDreamer, About the SQL stuff yesterday, was really just a guess on my part. :)
18:51 <+perlDreamer> a good one :)
18:55 <+perlDreamer> with perl, instinct is a valuable commodity
18:57  * apeiron nods, emphatically.
19:04 <+perlDreamer> okay, this is embarrasing
19:04 <+perlDreamer> I need some perl help
19:04 <+perlDreamer> I have an array ref
19:04 <+perlDreamer> I want to make a safe copy of it
19:04 <+perlDreamer> so I start with $ref
19:04 <+perlDreamer> my @copy = @{ $ref }
19:04 <+perlDreamer> I modify @copy
19:04 <+perlDreamer> and right now I'm seeing changes in $ref
19:05 <@apeiron> hrm
19:05 <@apeiron> I've seen a module to do this, I think.
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19:06 <@apeiron> perlDreamer, Storable has a dclone() that you can use.
19:06 <@rizen> if that's showing changes in the ref then i think that webgui is broken all over the place
19:06 <+perlDreamer> I'm going to boil it down and figure it out
19:06 <@rizen> cuz that's always how i make copies of array refs
19:08 <@apeiron> perlDreamer, Does your usage vary much from http://webgui.pastebin.com/d20f4191e ?
19:08 <@apeiron> That DWYM.
19:09 <+perlDreamer> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m34d0b74a
19:10 <+perlDreamer> oh crap
19:10 <+perlDreamer> now I get it
19:10 <+perlDreamer> I'm still dealing with references
19:11 <@rizen> indeed
19:11 <+perlDreamer> perldoc Storable
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19:16 <+perlDreamer> this works better
19:16 <+perlDreamer> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m289c0ffb
19:16 <+perlDreamer> I had to iterate over the array anyway
19:16 < sanyock3> Hi All
19:16 <+perlDreamer> Hi, sanyock3
19:16 <+perlDreamer> Do you have some webgui questions?
19:17 < sanyock3> Sure ;)
19:20 <+perlDreamer> rizen: Have you looked at the new JSON collateral methods?  If I'm way off base, it would be good to know before I get too far along.
19:20 <@rizen> no but i will
19:24 < CIA-5> WebGUI: colin * r6306 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 
19:24 < CIA-5> WebGUI: Convert accessories over to the new Product collateral methods.
19:24 < CIA-5> WebGUI: Add a method to get the JSON collateral indexed, for easy access to indeces.
19:24 < CIA-5> WebGUI: Add tests for the new getIndexedCollateralData method.
19:24 < CIA-5> WebGUI: In the upgrade script, put variants in all versions of the Product. Begin
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19:24 < CIA-5> WebGUI: work on converting the collateral tables over to JSON.
19:25 <@rizen> looks like you're on the right track
19:25 <+perlDreamer> (phew) good.  Thanks for the review.
19:26 <@rizen> though when i genericize it for use in other assets there are a few things i'd change
19:26 <+perlDreamer> okay, what does it need?
19:26 <@rizen> first, while for your purposes of conversion the word "table" makes sense, but to people that never saw table based collateral, it makes no sense
19:27 <+perlDreamer> would $collateral be a better variable to use?  Or something else?
19:27 <@rizen> and it adds to confusion because databases have tables, but json doesn
19:28 <@rizen> second, i wouldn't make it part of the asset, but rather a separate object that the asset can use similar to VersionTag or Keywords
19:28 <+perlDreamer> I was thinking in the long term this would become a mixin
19:29 <@rizen> so you'd do: my $collateral = WebGUI::JsonCollateral->new($self, $fieldName);
19:29 <@rizen> maybe it will, i'm still not convinced about mixins yet though
19:29 <+perlDreamer> Hey, if you want it top-level, top-level it is
19:29 <@rizen> i'm still leaning toward separate objects
19:30 <@rizen> for the purposes of this though
19:30 <@rizen> don't worry about those things
19:30 <@rizen> just get it done
19:30 <@rizen> given the time constraints you don't have time to make this perfect
19:30 <+perlDreamer> true
19:31 <@rizen> besides, i've changed the spec of products on you enough during this
19:31 <@rizen> =)
19:31 -!- newtont_ [n=newtont@dsl-146-54-186.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit ["Leaving"]
19:31 <+perlDreamer> only once.  I just keep flip-flopping implementations
19:31 <@rizen> once is enough
19:31 <@rizen> =)
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20:08 < itnomad> I'm getting ready to install webgui on a CentOS server. I am confused by the instructions for DNS setup. Not much experience there. I am using one site on a computer that I access only by numbered address. Eventually I will get a domain name for this, but for now can I skip the DNS setup or do I have to make up a name for the WRE to use locally?
20:13 < itnomad> Where it says "add your first site"; sitename='can I use a numbered address here?'
20:13 -!- dionak [n=diona@cpe-024-074-132-143.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit []
20:15 <+perlDreamer> itnomad, I'm not a WRE user, but I don't see why not
20:16 < itnomad> By now my nubiness must be clear to all. I have an intranet with a couple computers and am using a router and port forwarding.
20:16 < itnomad> I guess I just need to jump in and give it a shot.
20:16 <+perlDreamer> itnomad, we've all started there.  Don't feel bad because you're new.
20:17 < itnomad> I should go ahead and learn about the /etc/hosts file anyway. It's just that there is so much to do and so little time. Thanks for the encouragement perlDreamer.
20:18 <+perlDreamer> itnomad, if you're truly in a time crunch to set this up, have you considered having someone setup and host your site for you?
20:19 <@rizen> itnomad use the domain name that you think you'll be using when you luanch
20:19 <@rizen> launch
20:19 <@rizen> www.itnomad.com
20:19 <@rizen> for example
20:19 <@apeiron> Then you can put that in /etc/hosts, right?
20:20 <@rizen> yes, and then add an entry to /etc/hosts
20:20 <@rizen> of:
20:20 <@rizen> 10.0.0.1  www.itnomad.com
20:20 <@rizen> replace 10.0.0.1 with your numbered ip
20:21 <@rizen> then you can still access the site using 10.0.0.1 (or whatever your ip is)
20:21 <@rizen> but the WRE is expecting a domain...not an ip address
20:21 < itnomad> okay...got it. That helps a lot!
20:22 < itnomad> Thank you ... onward with the installation.
20:28 <+perlDreamer> rizen: accessory collateral converted over to JSON collateral.  The upgrade process has been tested, but I still need to test the UI.
20:34 < CIA-5> WebGUI: colin * r6307 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): 
20:34 < CIA-5> WebGUI: Convert accessory collateral to JSON based accessory collateral.
20:34 < CIA-5> WebGUI: Add a product with accessory collateral to loadProducts.pl to test the upgrade.
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22:27 < itnomad> installation was painless once I got past that one hump. I went ahead and bought the domain I will be using and put in /etc/hosts with my local ip. Everything is working. Thanks again for the help.  Now for some exercise.
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22:42 <+perlmonkey2> I would like to mark today as a day of celebration.  Microsoft has, at least for now, given up its bid to buy Yahoo.
22:49 <+perlDreamer> Motion seconded
22:49 <+perlDreamer> any comments from the floor?
22:53 <+perlDreamer> barring comments from floor, or an override from the commissioner, motion is passed.
23:14 <+perlmonkey2> hah, perlDreamer++
23:20 <@rizen> i object
23:27 <+perlDreamer> the committee recognizes the commissioner
23:27 <+perlDreamer> Would you please detail the objection for the record?
23:27 <@rizen> i would like to designate today as a day of sour grapes
23:28 <@rizen> i mean, did you read that pity party of a letter that balmer released to the public
23:29 <@rizen> he's so pissed off that someone would thwart his advances, that he's attempting to devalue Yahoo!'s stock price by saying they don't know how to run their own business
23:30 <@rizen> in addition, he talks as if he knows so much about the search business...but if he did, would his company really be a distant 3rd place contender...and note that he's talking to the 2nd place contender here
23:31 <@rizen> therefore i designate today as a day of sour grapes
23:31 <+perlDreamer> the committee would like suggest that we combine the celebration and sour grapes to be a day of "Neener neener boo boo".
23:32 <@rizen> i really want to post what i just said to the black blog, but me thinks that it probably wouldn't be appropriate
23:33 <+perlDreamer> just pull the concept out of it, and write about that
23:33 <+perlDreamer> poor sportsmanship, mud-slinging don't work well with open source
23:34 <@rizen> what fun would that be
23:35 <@rizen> oh, and steve balmer can't do math
23:36 <@rizen> in his letter he claimed that they offered an additional $1 per share (raising it to $33 from $32 per share) which was also rejected
23:36 <@rizen> and he said that extra $1/share was going to cost $5 billion
23:36 <@rizen> later in the letter he said that yahoo would not settle for anything less than $37 per share
23:36 <@rizen> which would cost an additional $5 billion or more
23:37 <@rizen> how is it that $1/share and $4/share both equal $5 billion
23:37 <+perlDreamer> unless the number of shares offered are different, they aren't
23:38 <@rizen> exactly
23:38 <+perlmonkey2> heh
23:39 <+perlmonkey2> It is always fun to see a company, lacking in even the remotest spec of integrity, fall on its face.
23:41 <@rizen> but in far more important news:
23:41 <@rizen> http://gizmodo.com/386877/holy-crap-macgyver-blockbuster-film-coming
23:42 <+perlDreamer> yeah!
23:42 <+perlDreamer> oy
23:42 <+perlDreamer> I already miss the new commerce system
23:44 <@rizen> you already miss it?
23:45 <@rizen> oh...you're working on the old one for that contract
23:45 <@rizen> =)
23:45 <@rizen> what's funny is that i'm writing the same thing you are
23:45 <@rizen> only for the new one
23:45 <@rizen> $0 transactions
23:45 <@rizen> right at this very moment
23:45 <+perlDreamer> have to take a small break
23:46 <+perlDreamer> I have a very important snake tungue surgery to perform
23:52 <+perlDreamer> Yesterday, I was an electrician
23:52 <+perlDreamer> This morning, a programmer
23:52 <+perlDreamer> this afternoon, a veterinarian
23:52 <+perlDreamer> what a day
23:53 <+perlDreamer> plus, I caught a cold
23:57 <+perlmonkey2> rizen: Should I address the cover letter to Frank?
23:57 <@rizen> if you like
23:57 <@rizen> he is going to be the one who interviews you
23:57 <+perlmonkey2> groovy
--- Day changed Mon May 05 2008
00:09 < CIA-5> WebGUI: colin * r6308 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/lib/WebGUI/Operation/ProductManager.pm: price and weight checks were mangled in the ProductManager
01:24 <+perlDreamer> are all WebGUI releases tagged in SVN?
01:25 <@rizen> all releases in the past 6 months or so
01:25 <@rizen> we didn't do it before that
01:25 <@rizen> maybe not even that long ago...i don't remember exactly when we started it
01:25 <+perlDreamer> 7.4.16 is before the JSON fixes, so I'm guessing that it's too old
01:26 <+perlDreamer> it's okay, I'll diff against an original source tree
01:26 <@rizen> no i think 7.4.16 should be in the tags
01:26 <+perlDreamer> I'll check
01:26 <@rizen> https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/browse/releases/WebGUI_7.4.16-stable/
01:27 <@rizen> looks like we've been doing it since the 7.3 days
01:27 <+perlDreamer> yup
01:40 <@rizen> ok calling it quits for the day...ttyl
01:40 -!- rizen is now known as rizenisaway
01:43  * perlDreamer continues with his journey
01:43 <+perlDreamer> leaping from module to module
01:43 <+perlDreamer> writing wrongs from the past
01:45 <+perlDreamer> and hoping that each one will show him the way home
02:16 <+perlDreamer> or at least to a cushy well paying job with Perl
02:22 < CIA-5> WebGUI: colin * r6309 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Sku/FlatDiscount.pm: fix for POD whitespace
02:46 < CIA-5> WebGUI: colin * r6310 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Sku/Product.pm: final accessory changes. UI tests pass as well
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02:52 <+perlDreamer> this new collateral system is so simple, I wonder if the whole thing could be automated, ala the definition sub.
02:53 <+perlDreamer> so when it found a collateral property, it would autogenerate all the move, and delete subs
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05:24 < enriquan> hi all :)
05:29 < enriquan> ...
05:29 < enriquan> nobody's here huh?
05:30 < enriquan> I cant install webgui... cause my server's running apache
05:30 < enriquan> and its my web host... so I dont think I can disable it
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07:01 < CIA-5> WebGUI: colin * r6311 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): convert related over to JSON collateral
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09:27 < citronized> hello :)
09:28 < citronized> i'm trying to install Webgui on a mac... OS 10.5
09:29 < citronized> i'm wondering if there's a special directory in a specific location to create for unpacking ?
09:30 <+Radix-wrk> citronized: I'm not familiar with installing it on a mac, but is there anything in the wiki about a mac install?
09:30 <+Radix-wrk> I'm sure it'd be documented somewhere
09:31 < citronized> perhaps yup, i'm gonna have a look there :)
09:31 <+Radix-wrk> my guess though is that it's the same as for every other platform - you need a /data directory and everything goes under that - that's just a guess tho
09:31 < citronized> yes, but as I have several sessions, I dunno if I have to create the data dir at the root or in one admin session...
09:32 <@rizenisaway> the instructions are the same for *all* platforms, and the wre comes with them in docs/install.txt
09:32 <@rizenisaway> just follow it and you'll be fine
09:33 < citronized> ok, I'll do that :) thank you two ;)
09:33 <+Radix-wrk> you're welcome
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10:19 < citronized> hello again, when i list the services, i have a warning displayed on page : Because you are not an administrator on this machine, you will not be able to start or stop services on ports 1-1024.
10:19 < citronized> so i cannot start Apache Modproxy services :(
10:20 < citronized> i've tried using  a "root" session, but i have the same warning displayed :-/
10:21 <+Radix-wrk> you will need to be root to start webgui, yes, or any apache service.
10:22 < citronized> isn't there a way to start the service in command line, using the root login ?
10:22 -!- BartJol [n=plainstu@host2.procolix.com] has joined #webgui
10:33 < citronized> ok, found it
10:34 < citronized> the command is : "data/wre/sbin/wreservice.pl --start all"
10:34 < citronized> with "su" before :)
10:35 < BartJol> do you know whether su retains the environment settings?
10:36 < citronized> nope, no idea
10:36 < BartJol> quite important
10:36 < BartJol> I think when I sudo'd it didn't go well
10:37 < BartJol> and you need root rights for -all
10:37 <+Radix-wrk> err.. not su
10:37 <+Radix-wrk> sudo
10:37 <+Radix-wrk> or use su to get into root first, then run it I guess
10:38 < BartJol> well that works for me...
10:38 < BartJol> off course
10:38 <+Radix-wrk> either should work really
10:38 < BartJol> ah
10:38 <+Radix-wrk> but you may have to configure sudo first to ensure you have privileges to do it
10:38 < BartJol> well I broke something so I can't test it right now
10:38 < BartJol> ah
10:39 <+Radix-wrk> su is easier imho
10:39 <+Radix-wrk> but sudo is technically safer :)
10:39 <+Radix-wrk> both give you root privs tho :)
10:39 < BartJol> ok
10:39 < citronized> well, i'm just trying to instal webgui to test it localy
10:40 <+Radix-wrk> fair enough
10:40 <+Radix-wrk> webgui is great, but the installation is always the hardest part :)
10:40 < citronized> i can see that, yup !! :)
10:40 < BartJol> with the wre it's quite doable
10:40 <+Radix-wrk> you know about the demo.plainblack.com site right?
10:41 < citronized> yep, but it only last for 1 day, don't it ?
10:41 < BartJol> it does
10:41 < BartJol> or limited time anyway\
10:41 <+Radix-wrk> with the wre it should be doable in about half an hour.. but that assumes you have no mysql, no apache, perl, anything on that system already that might conflict or cause issues
10:42 < BartJol> I had a clean server, that might make a difference
10:42 <+Radix-wrk> yeah, I've found it makes the world of difference
10:43 < citronized> took me less then one hour
10:43 <+Radix-wrk> for your first time that's excellent :)
10:43 < BartJol> so before installing make sure it's clean with a sudo rm -rf / command
10:43 < BartJol> :)
10:43 <+Radix-wrk> hhaha
10:43 < BartJol> sorry, to often made, this joke is
10:44 < citronized> :p
10:44 < BartJol> I'm just not that original :)
10:44 <+Radix-wrk> See your nerd education is still rather lacking that's why Bart.. you're getting there tho :)
10:45 < citronized> how do i quit the "root" mode in terminal ?
10:45 <+Radix-wrk> exit
10:45 < citronized> ty
10:45 < BartJol> ctrl-D
10:46 <+Radix-wrk> you can use the 'id' command to see what privileges you're running as at any time too
10:46 <+Radix-wrk> it should say something like 'uid=0(root) gid=0(root)' if you're running as root
10:47 <+Radix-wrk> and something like 'uid=501(jesse) gid=503(formsys)' if you're as a normal user
10:47 < BartJol> but I'm not called jesse?
10:47 < citronized> :)
10:47 <+Radix-wrk> yes, be grateful for that one :)
10:48 < citronized> gives me that : uid=501(citronized) gid=501(citronized) groups=501(citronized),98(_lpadmin),80(admin)
10:48 <+Radix-wrk> yup, so you're in a normal user session right now then
10:48 < citronized> ;)
10:49 <+Radix-wrk> id is handy if you're like me and logged into half a dozen different machines at any one time and can never remember who you logged in as
10:50 < citronized> i guess :)
10:50 < BartJol> ah, I'm only logged in to maximun three machines simultaneously 
10:50 < BartJol> but, I'm not yet as nerdy...
10:52 <+Radix-wrk> heh
10:53 <+Radix-wrk> Well I'm off home - going to see Iron Man tonight and looking forward to it!
10:53 < BartJol> ah, have fun
10:53 < citronized> :)
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11:02 < citronized> is there a way to custom used fonts for all pages ?
11:03 < BartJol> ? probably there is, but I'm not sure what you mean?
11:04 < BartJol> in the css you can do that
11:04 < BartJol> but you can have a css in the head of the template or a separate css file
11:04 < citronized> the content part use a serif font, i'd like to use a sans-serif font, i don't know how to manage this :)
11:05 < citronized> ok
11:05 < citronized> where is located this css ?
11:05 < BartJol> so you just have to look at your template whether it has css directly in it or via a css file
11:05 < BartJol> you can see it in your template
11:05 < BartJol> probably somewhere in the import node or media folder
11:07 < citronized> right, in the import dir ;) ty
11:07 < BartJol> if the template uses a css file, it should be defined in the head section of your template
11:08 < BartJol> if you have bugzilla (if you use firefox) most of the time you also see what file is used
11:08 < BartJol> the name anyway
11:10 < citronized> i have the webdeveloper tools bar
11:10 < citronized> ;)
11:11 < BartJol> ok
11:22 < citronized> BartJol: do you know how can I add MySQL tables or DB ? Do I have to use the WRE console or there's a phpMyadmin like console ?
11:23 < BartJol> ah
11:23 < BartJol> well
11:24 < BartJol> I would just go into the mysql db
11:24 < BartJol> but with an sql form, maybe you are able to do it too
11:24 < BartJol> but I didn't work with that yet
11:25 < citronized> oh, ok...
11:25 < BartJol> but not via the wreconsole and there isn't a separate console for it
11:26 < citronized> ok, i have to figured out how to manage that
11:27 < BartJol> do you want users to be able to do that? or you just want to add a table?
11:29 < citronized> i just want to add a table in order to manage some records which will be displayed in the site 
11:29 < BartJol> for an extra db, you have to make one in mysql, then add a database link inyour webgui settings
11:31 < citronized> i've seen that i have to do this link, but i dunno if there's a "phpMyadmin like" interface
11:31 < BartJol> your mysql user and password are in your WebGUI conf file
11:31 < BartJol> well, thingy might be able to do that
11:32 < BartJol> but that's only in the beta version
11:32 < BartJol> and these also are local assets, so not page iwde
11:32 < citronized> expected for the end of May, i've heard 
11:33 < BartJol> yeah, well...
11:33 < BartJol> :)
11:33 < BartJol> deadlines are easily passed
11:33 < citronized> i know, i know :)
11:33 < BartJol> but it will be somewhere around there
11:33 < BartJol> it will be before the wuc
11:34 < citronized> what is the wuc ?
11:34 < BartJol> the webgui user conference
11:34 < BartJol> 29th of august in madison, wisconsin
11:34 < BartJol> I believe
11:34 < BartJol> www.webgui.org/wuc
11:35 < citronized> oh ok :)
11:35 < BartJol> it's nice, and you can get to meet all the famous wbegui nerds
11:35 < citronized> i won't be there :)
11:35 < citronized> too far for me
11:35 < BartJol> too bad, 
11:35 < BartJol> we are going with around 12 dutchmen
11:36 < BartJol> and it's far for us too
11:36 < citronized> i guess
11:36 < citronized> maybe if i'm rich and have some holidays :)
11:37 < BartJol> a, we all get our tickets because it's our work
11:37 < BartJol> and all give presentations
11:38 < BartJol> where are you from then?
11:38 < citronized> from france :)
11:38 < BartJol> Straasbourg?\
11:39 < citronized> yup, Mr. Nerd :)
11:39 < citronized> but it's Strasbourg ;)
11:39 < BartJol> thnaks, I consider that a compliment
11:39 < citronized> u can :)
11:39 < BartJol> I know, my typing has to warm up
11:39 < citronized> np
11:40 < BartJol> well, nice to have more persons in the some timezone here
11:40 < citronized> Straasbourg sounds too much german for me :)
11:40 < BartJol> in dutch it's Straatsburg
11:40 < citronized> close
11:41 < citronized> about the tickets, it's not my job, even if i would like it :)
11:42 < BartJol> maybe a career change? :)
11:42 < citronized> i hope
11:42 < citronized> i'm bored with filemaker devs :)
11:42 < citronized> it's unusefull i think
11:43 < BartJol> but do you also work on the french translation? that would be a must for webgui in france
11:43 < BartJol> already 38 percent done
11:44 < citronized> I will
11:44 < BartJol> nice
11:45 < citronized> i discuss of it here with another user, i can't remember his name :|
11:45 < citronized> perl-somethg
11:45 < citronized> sorry for him
11:45 < BartJol> perlmonkey2?
11:45 < citronized> yup
11:45 < BartJol> perlDreamer?
11:45 < citronized> ;)
11:45 < citronized> both, as far as i can remember
11:46 < BartJol> ah, those are both sleeping
11:46 < citronized> i guess, last time i came, was the night here :)
11:46 < BartJol> Is there something like a WebGUI community in France?
11:46 < citronized> i don't know :)
11:47 < citronized> i'm quite comfortable with english, so i didn't even look if one exists
11:47 < BartJol> In the Netherlands we have, if we have a bigger meeting would you like to come here?
11:48 < BartJol> that's not very far
11:48 < citronized> why not
11:48 < citronized> i was in Utrecht this w-e :)
11:48 < BartJol> ah
11:48 < BartJol> nice city
11:48 < citronized> for a car meeting :)
11:49 < citronized> well, not really cars, but Citroën's :)
11:49 < BartJol> mm, Utrecht just banned SUV's from the city centre
11:49 < BartJol> well, the old Citroens are really nice
11:49 < citronized> they really are, i think :)
11:50 < citronized> i'm a citroën scale model collector :)
11:50 < BartJol> well that's not reaaly my type of hobby
11:50 < citronized> and that a part of the point of my website project : buil a scalemodelslibrary :)
11:51 < BartJol> but, if you collect model cars, they can better be nice
11:51 < BartJol> ah
11:51 < citronized> yeah, don't have enough $$ to buy real ones :)
11:51 < BartJol> :)
11:52 < citronized> but i have my grandfather '78 GS :)
11:52 < citronized> for now, it's far enough for me ;)
11:54 < citronized> i have a xantia too, but that's for everyday
11:54 < citronized> well, i'm gonna stop pissing u off with my cars stories :)
11:55 < BartJol> ah, well, I've gotta work too
11:55 < citronized> ;)
11:55 < citronized> maybe i see u later around ;)
11:55 < BartJol> probably
11:55 < BartJol> :)
11:55 < citronized> good work then :)
11:55 < BartJol> thanks, later
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13:49 < citronized> hi again :)
13:50 < citronized> is "Thingy" already available in beta ?
14:02 < BartJol> yeah
14:02 < BartJol> but it not yet fully done
14:03 < BartJol> s/it/it is/
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15:02 < citronized> u mean some functions aren't available ?
15:03 < BartJol> well I thought that the feature set isn't completed yet, but those that are should work
15:04 < citronized> how ca i get this beta ?
15:04 < BartJol> download it! :)
15:05 < citronized> i haven't found any links, that's why i ask :)
15:05 < BartJol> http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=51417&package_id=45293&release_id=591330
15:05 < BartJol> that is the location of the latest beta
15:05 < BartJol> 7.5.10
15:06 < BartJol> but read the gotcha file after unpacking
15:07 < citronized> oh, ok, it's included in the webgui package :)
15:07 < BartJol> yeah, probably in /data/WebGUI/docs
15:07 < citronized> i though it was  a PI or something like that :)
15:08 < BartJol> no the api can be found via the wiki
15:08 < BartJol> also very usefull
15:08 < BartJol> if you start to write your own code
15:13 < BartJol> but the gotcha contains some info on important changes that are sometimes not completely compatible
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15:19 < citronized> do you think it's possible to install this beta side to side with the stable version ?
15:20 < citronized> or do i have to trash my stable version ?
15:20 < BartJol> I think it is possible, but....
15:20 < BartJol> you need to setup another directory tree
15:21 < BartJol> and maybe there are some defaults
15:21 < BartJol> that think that the directory is /data/WebGUI
15:21 < BartJol> so that might take some time to configure
15:22 < BartJol> and it should have another ip address
15:22 < BartJol> such stuff
15:22 < citronized> erf..ok I see :)
15:23 < BartJol> you don't make live easier for yourself
15:23 < BartJol> :)
15:23 < citronized> i'll wait for the stable version then :)
15:23 < BartJol> but for older versions without the wre we have that
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15:24 < BartJol> probably when 7.5 gets stable, there also will be an upgrade path from 7.4
15:25 < citronized> which version is included in the WRE 0.8.3 package ?
15:26 < BartJol> so then there shouldn't be to many problems
15:26 < BartJol> none
15:26 < BartJol> but when you install WebGUI, it will take the latest stable (in this case 7.4.35) version
15:27 < citronized> ok, i've seen that it has dowloaded this stuff during install :)
15:27 < citronized> are upgrades easy once you've installed webgui ?
15:28 < BartJol> normally yes
15:28 < citronized> easy as is the installation or as two clicks on buttons ? :D
15:28 < BartJol> if you have many custom extra's (like in the code) that can cause trouble
15:29 < BartJol> eeh
15:29 < BartJol> well you should run the /data/wre/sbin/webguiupdate.pl script
15:30 < citronized> seems fine to me :)
15:30 < BartJol> but there are also some upgrade instructions on the site
15:30 < BartJol> I would advise to read those :)
15:30 < citronized> ;)
15:31 < BartJol> I didn't do that very often with success
15:31 < BartJol> and I broke my test installation
15:31 < BartJol> so
15:32 < BartJol> still some stuff with the new JSON version
15:32 < citronized> i'm gonna try my SQL Form asset to work, this way, i won't bother u anymore with upgrades and stuff :)
15:33 < BartJol> well, glad to be some help
15:33 < citronized> ty for ur help anyway
15:34 < citronized> it's always great to be more then one in front of an issue ;)
15:34 < BartJol> have fun
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15:41 < BartJol> morning
15:41 < citronized> morning :)
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16:18 <+perlmonkey2> anyone seen the use.perl article on how fresh cpan is?  http://use.perl.org/~LaPerla/journal/36320
16:18 <+perlmonkey2> that is pretty cool.
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16:24 < SDuensin> Morning.
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17:12 <@rizenisaway> MrHairgrease: in iTransact processing do you ever set a "total" amount?
17:12 -!- rizenisaway is now known as rizen
17:13 <@rizen> i'm trying to figure out where to place in-shop credit into this module. 
17:13 <+MrHairgrease> hang on
17:13 <+MrHairgrease> let me check that
17:14 <@rizen> for example, let's say i have a transaction for $20 and i have a $10 credit in the shop. i should be able to make the credit card fee only $10 then instead of the full $20
17:16 <+MrHairgrease> I I recall correctly you pass the per item price/qty to itransact
17:16 <+MrHairgrease> I'll have to check it in their docs
17:16 <+MrHairgrease> gimme a minute
17:17 <@rizen> if that's true, how do you pass in things like tax, shipping, etc
17:17 <@rizen> do you just add extra line items?
17:22 <+MrHairgrease> If you want those seperate, they'll have to be passed as separate items
17:23 <+MrHairgrease> afaik, itransact does not have a seperate tax field
17:23 <@rizen> so is the itransact module not accounting for shipping and tax costs right now?
17:23 <@rizen> if not, i'll add it while i'm in here adding the other stuff
17:23 <+MrHairgrease> let me check
17:23 <@rizen> it doesn't look like it to me
17:23 <@rizen> that's why i'm asking
17:24 <+MrHairgrease> i know
17:24 <@rizen> if you don't know, then it probably isn't
17:24 <+MrHairgrease> ok 
17:24 <+MrHairgrease> It doesn't as far as i can see
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> I thought the getPrice thing calculated the price including tax
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> but that isn't
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> hnce the confusion
17:26 <@rizen> ok thanks
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> ok, now i'm sure
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> it doesn't do it
17:27 <@rizen> alright, i'll add those in too then
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> i can add it too
17:28 <@rizen> i'm working on it right now anyway
17:28 <@rizen> for that credit stuff
17:28 <+MrHairgrease> ok, just add them as seperate items
17:28 <+MrHairgrease> question about the subscriptions
17:29 <+MrHairgrease> it used to be possible to have one subscription code referring to two subscriptions
17:29 <+MrHairgrease> but we agreed that that will not be the case anymore in the new system
17:29 <+MrHairgrease> ie. a one-to-one relationship between code<->susbscription
17:30 <+MrHairgrease> what do you want to happen if there are codes that have multiple subscriptions attached?
17:30 <@rizen> existing codes?
17:31 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
17:31 <@rizen> my guess is that there aren't any because you said the user interface doesn't allow for it, only the api did
17:31 <+MrHairgrease> aparently I was wrong on that
17:31 <+MrHairgrease> b/c when i tried to make a batch of codes for testing the migration script
17:31 <+MrHairgrease> it was possible
17:31 <@rizen> but if you find any then display a warning in the upgrade output AND log, and then convert them to a new code
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17:32 <@rizen> so if there are two subscriptions in the code
17:32 <@rizen> then the first one can use the code
17:32 <@rizen> and the second one gets  a new code
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17:32 <@rizen> and you let people know that in both the upgrade output (print) and in the log
17:36 <+MrHairgrease> how I have done it so far is letting assign one of the subscriptions to the code, thus discarding the other subscriptions for that code
17:36 <+MrHairgrease> creating a new code has about the same effect, since you only really wanna retain codes if you've handed them out already
17:37 <+MrHairgrease> but in that case, the person that received it doesn't know anymore where to redeem it.
17:38 <+MrHairgrease> since the code redemption is moved into the sku
17:38 <+MrHairgrease> and removed from the displayAccount screen
17:38 <+MrHairgrease> so how does creating new codes help?
17:38 <+MrHairgrease> it only complicates matters
17:39 <@rizen> no it helps
17:39 <@rizen> it helps because the store owner doesn't have to manually create the codes 
17:40 <@rizen> he's going to have to send out the codes again sure
17:40 <@rizen> but he doesn't have to manually create it
17:40 <@rizen> so give him the codes and the urls
17:40 <@rizen> then he can send out the emails
17:40 <@rizen> to distribute the new codes to people
17:41 <+MrHairgrease> ok
17:42 <+MrHairgrease> another funny thing i came across: now that subscriptions are assets people without admin privs can add them.
17:42 <+MrHairgrease> So what happens if some evil content manager adds a subscriuption to the admin group and redeems a code for himself?
17:43 <@rizen> set the canAdd value of it to '3'
17:43 <@rizen> that will stop that problem
17:43 <@rizen> and if someone wants to override it, they can do so in their config
17:44 <+MrHairgrease> ok
17:44 <@rizen> good thinking though
17:44 <@rizen> i didn't even consider that
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17:50 <+MrHairgrease> ok, one final question: subscription codes are in batches which belong to subscritions
17:50 <+MrHairgrease> so now each code has a batchId
17:50 <+MrHairgrease> and each batchId has a subscriptionId
17:51 <+MrHairgrease> would it be a bad thing to add a subscriptionId to each code too?
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17:51 <+MrHairgrease> it is a form of data duplication so I left it out
18:14 <@rizen> i'll leave it to your judgement
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18:21 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r6312 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Sku/Product.pm: more collateral conversion. Collateral data does not need to be removed from extra tables in purge method
18:21 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r6313 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Sku/Product.pm: collateral data does not need to be manually duplicated
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18:35 <+perlDreamer> json collateral in the asset table has lots of advantages
18:35 <+perlDreamer> no need for manual duplication or purging
18:36 <+perlDreamer> versioning
18:36 <+perlDreamer> prototyping
18:37 <@rizen> i know
18:37 <@rizen> hence my blog entry
18:37 <@rizen> =)
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18:40 < webmaster> where does the Sybase.pm file need to be and installed
18:40 <+perlDreamer> webmaster, do you mean DBD::Sybase?
18:41 < webmaster> yes
18:41 <+perlDreamer> Are you using the WRE?
18:41 < webmaster> yes
18:41 <+perlDreamer> get a root session
18:41 <+perlDreamer> source the setEnvironment script
18:41 <+perlDreamer> perl -MCPAN -e 'install DBD::Sybase'
18:41 <+perlDreamer> restart apache
18:42 <+perlDreamer> configure a database link to your sybase db
18:42 <+perlDreamer> then use it
18:42 <+perlDreamer> note that you can't use it for the default webgui database
18:42 <+perlDreamer> only for external db queries
18:43 < webmaster> i did that and i even can run a perl script to spit out my server name which is a SQL server. I create a database link in WebGUI and this is what i get
18:43 < webmaster> 2008/05/02 03:06:25 - WARN - bellatrix.conf - Log::Log4perl::Logger::__ANON__[41] - Couldn't call method view on asset for url: tell_a_friend/di-teacher Root cause: install_driver(Sybase) failed: Can't locate DBD/Sybase.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /data/WebGUI/lib /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/5.8.8/i686-linux /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/5.8.8 /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/i686-linux /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8 /data/wre/p
18:43 < webmaster> Perhaps the DBD::Sybase perl module hasn't been fully installed,
18:43 < webmaster> or perhaps the capitalisation of 'Sybase' isn't right.
18:43 < webmaster> Available drivers: DBM, ExampleP, File, Gofer, Proxy, Sponge, mysql.
18:43 < webmaster> so we moved the pm file so webgui could see it
18:43 < webmaster> got this
18:43 < webmaster> 2008/05/02 10:35:07 - WARN - bellatrix.conf - main::[[undef]] - Couldn't call method view on asset for url: tell_a_friend/di-teacher Root cause: Undefined subroutine &DBD::Sybase::db::_login called at /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/i686-linux/DBD/Sybase.pm line 94.
18:43 < webmaster> gave it execute permissions and got his
18:44 < webmaster> 2008/05/02 10:38:05 - WARN - bellatrix.conf - main::[[undef]] - Couldn't call method view on asset for url: tell_a_friend/di-teacher Root cause: install_driver(Sybase) failed: Can't locate loadable object for module DBD::Sybase in @INC (@INC contains: /data/WebGUI/lib /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/5.8.8/i686-linux /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/5.8.8 /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/i686-linux /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8 /data/
18:44 < webmaster> Compilation failed in require at (eval 1695) line 3.
18:44 < webmaster> Perhaps a module that DBD::Sybase requires hasn't been fully installed
18:44 < webmaster>  at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm line 322
18:44 <@rizen> are you sure you installed it into the right perl
18:44 <@rizen> my guess is that you installed it into your local perl rather than the wre
18:44 <+perlDreamer> yeah
18:45 <+perlDreamer> try a locate Sybase.pm
18:45 < webmaster> locate Sybase.pm
18:46 < webmaster> locate Sybase.pm
18:47 < webmaster> "/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/i386-linux-thread-multi/DBD/Sybase.pm"
18:47 < webmaster> "/data/WebGUI/lib/DBIx/DBDescribe/DBD/Sybase.pm
18:47 < webmaster> "/data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/i686-linux/Bundle/DBD/Sybase.pm"
18:47 < webmaster> "/data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/i686-linux/DBD/Sybase.pm"
18:48 < webmaster> we manually put it into the 2 wre folders
18:48 <+perlDreamer> if you manually put it there, you probably didn't install everything that it needed
18:48 <+perlDreamer> use CPAN to install the whole thing into the WRE's perl
18:48 <+perlDreamer> just like the instructions that I gave you earlier
18:48 < webmaster> is there a certain folder i need to be in when i run the command 
18:49 <+perlDreamer> no
18:49 <+perlDreamer> just be sure that you're using the WRE's perl
18:49 <+perlDreamer> which perl
18:49 < webmaster> the "into the WRE's perl" is the part I am not clear on. 
18:49 < webmaster> how do i know i am using WRE perl
18:49 <+perlDreamer> type perl
18:49 <+perlDreamer> "type perl"
18:49 <+perlDreamer> or, "which perl"
18:50 <+perlDreamer> if it doesn't say /data/WRE.....perl, you're not using the right one
18:50 < webmaster> "/user/bin/perl" 
18:50 < webmaster> so how do i stop it and use wre
18:50 <+perlDreamer> ". /data/WRE/sbin/setEnvironment"
18:52 <+perlDreamer> the setEnvironment script will alter your path environment variable so that WRE binaries are found first, rather than system binaries
18:55 <+perlDreamer> webmaster, is that working for you?
18:57 < webmaster> Running make test
18:57 < webmaster>   Make had some problems, maybe interrupted? Won't test
18:57 < webmaster> Running make install
18:57 < webmaster>   Make had some problems, maybe interrupted? Won't install
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19:01 <+perlDreamer> rizen: I know you want this C2 stuff done, but sending a virus to keep me home from work was a little over the top.
19:03 <@rizen> damn it, i told xander to just send over a mild bacterial infection
19:04 <@rizen> xander being my evil bio-warfare henchman of course
19:08 < CIA-6> WebGUI: colin * r6314 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Sku/Product.pm: update the SQL query for related Products