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01:31 < perlmonkey2> Oh man....this sucks.  I deleted a webgui page that another webgui page was grabbing an RSS feed from.  Now a few hours later the site is crashed and won't come back up.  Mysql won't restart and modproxy.error.log is saying error reading status line from remote server 
01:32 < perlmonkey2> Where does the wre write the mysql error logs to, I don't see them in var/log
01:36 < perlmonkey2> What does this mean when I try to manually start mysql? Starting MySQL ERROR! Couldn't find MySQL manager or server
01:39 <@preaction> are you running the right environment?
01:46 < perlmonkey2> network issues
01:46  * perlmonkey2 really really really wishes his client would have went with PB hosting.
01:47 < perlmonkey2> although if you could point me at anything that could help me with WRE backups, I'd appreciate it.  The wiki search didn't return anything.
01:50 <@preaction> you mean automatic backups using wre/sbin/backup.pl?
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02:27 < perlmonkey2> preaction: yes.  The backup users doesn't have permissions, and I can't connect to the wre mysql with the mysql CL client.
02:29 <@preaction> so you have a backup user, and in that user's cron you source in the WRE's environment and then run backup.pl?
02:29 <@preaction> i think you have to do it as root probably
02:30 < perlmonkey2> preaction: I am running the wre sbin/backup.pl as root, but the error is that the backup mysql user doesn't have permissions.
02:30 < perlmonkey2> Couldn't connect to MySQL because DBI connect('test;host=localhost;port=3306','backup',...) failed: Access denied for user 'backup'@'localhost' (using password: YES) at /data/wre/lib/WRE/Mysql.pm line 93
02:30 < perlmonkey2>  at ./backup.pl line 79
02:30 <@preaction> oh. you might need to set up that user, or use the root user
02:30 < perlmonkey2> I would, but I can not connect to the mysql server with the mysql client.
02:31 < perlmonkey2> Is there something I need to set up to connect to the wre instance of mysqld?
02:31 <@preaction> not that i know of
02:31 <@preaction> are you getting a permissions denied using the cli client too?
02:32 < perlmonkey2> no, just
02:32 < perlmonkey2> [root@li6-7 etc]# mysql -uwebgui -p
02:32 < perlmonkey2> Enter password: 
02:32 < perlmonkey2> ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock' (2)
02:32 <@preaction> you aren't using the right environment
02:32 < perlmonkey2> DOH!
02:32 < perlmonkey2> arg!
02:33 < perlmonkey2> dumb, stupid perlmonkey2
02:33 < perlmonkey2> I beg forgiveness for wasting your time.
02:33 <@preaction> i need someone who isn't a mac fanboi to give an opinion on a Mac Mini
02:34 <@preaction> it's about $1050 to get the one I want, tricked out with power, but i could probably fix my newly-broken computer for a tenth of that
02:34 <@preaction> i'm just tired of dealing with computer hardware
02:35 < perlmonkey2> A Mac Mini sounds cool
02:35 <@preaction> 1) Web / Internet 2) DVD / Music 3) Emulators 4) BitTorrent. the only problem is 4 requires massive amounts of hard disk space, which the mini don't have
02:35 <@preaction> those are the 4 things my tv computer currently does
02:35 <@preaction> i think i should move number 4 out to another, dedicated system
02:36 <@preaction> i've got a computer that's been sitting dead for at least 4 months now, i could resurrect it with the parts from the TV computer
02:37 < perlmonkey2> the mac mini's drive not only is small but it is slow.... at 5400 rpm laptop drive.
02:38 <@preaction> i don't think the mini's designed with high performance in mind
02:38 <@preaction> i think it's single-task oriented
02:38 <@preaction> a mac pro would do the job, but those are even more expensive
02:40 < perlmonkey2> I have a Q6600 4 GB DDR667, 350GB 7200 SATA2, with case for $700.
02:40 <@preaction> you're selling?
02:40 < perlmonkey2> no
02:40 < perlmonkey2> hah
02:41 < perlmonkey2> That's what I built it for
02:41 < perlmonkey2> It is my main desktop/workstation
02:41 <@preaction> i think i built my TV computer for about that. with twice the storage and half the RAM. $150 on the GFX card itself.
02:41 < perlmonkey2> and that was like last August...things should be cheaper.
02:42 <@preaction> that's just it though, building computers is boring. maintaining hardware is boring
02:42 <@preaction> and frustrating
02:42 < perlmonkey2> I agree
02:42 <@preaction> just out of the blue the TV computer (selene) starts a spontaneous reboot cycle
02:42 < perlmonkey2> but a lot cheaper
02:42 < perlmonkey2> suck
02:42 <@preaction> i'm willing to bet it's due to the cooling system dying
02:42 < perlmonkey2> btb, where does the wre write the mysql logs too.  It still wont' start up.
02:42 <@preaction> or the power supply dying
02:43 < perlmonkey2> power is likely
02:43 <@preaction> should be /data/wre/var/mysqldata/something.err
02:43 < perlmonkey2> cooling is easy to check....does it reboot right afte ryou start it, or after it is working.
02:44 <@preaction> after it's working for a while, but hasn't finished the initial load. OS gets booted, XP starts and gets into explorer, then before it's done loading components and drivers and such, it bombs
02:44 <@preaction> then it either gets a little less further next time, or just sits there spinning
02:44 < perlmonkey2> sounds like power
02:45 <@preaction> and the case i have under the TV has a special, tiny power supply... gotta find one of thems...
02:45 < perlmonkey2> Hmm, ./wreservice.pl --start mysql 
02:45 < perlmonkey2> Start MySQL:          FAILED!
02:45 < perlmonkey2> Yet nothing in the mysql.err logs
02:45 <@preaction> not that, using mysqld_safe or something
02:46 <@preaction> that wreservice.pl script hides a lot of things
02:46 < perlmonkey2> k, I'll try it directly
02:46 <@preaction> might be in a log though, /data/wre/var/logs somewhere perhaps
02:47 < perlmonkey2> No, nothing in the logs.
02:47 < perlmonkey2> I'm running tail -f var/logs/* 
02:47 < perlmonkey2> [root@li6-7 mysql]# ./mysql.server start
02:47 < perlmonkey2> Starting MySQL ERROR! Couldn't find MySQL manager or server
02:50 <@preaction> mysql.server is a shell script, right?
02:50 < perlmonkey2> I think it is the actual mysql binary...I'll open it
02:50 < perlmonkey2> oh, sheel
02:51 < perlmonkey2> wife is sick...brb
03:01 < perlmonkey2> I bet this is because I changed the company name .... It went from working fine to a few hours later, not working and no one did anything.
03:02 <@preaction> doesn't sound like that would screw things up
03:03 < perlmonkey2> But mysql keeps failing to start and there is nothing in the logs
03:04 <@preaction> it says something like "Couldn't find MySQL manager or server", which means that the shell script doesn't know where to look for the mysqld
03:04 < perlmonkey2> but I've ran the setenv script
03:05 < perlmonkey2> I can see the LD env params 
03:05 <@preaction> right, i had this happen to me once, and i don't remember how i fixed it or what was actually wrong
03:05 < perlmonkey2> wow, this really sucks...I've got a client wondering what happened to his site.
03:06 <@preaction> i just remember i looked in that script and echoed out the paths the script got
03:06 < perlmonkey2> I guess I'll tell him he shoul dhave wnet with PB
03:06 < perlmonkey2> k
03:06 < perlmonkey2> I'll try that.
03:06 <@preaction> did you try running /data/wre/prereqs/bin/mysqld_safe ?
03:09 < perlmonkey2> not yet
03:09 < perlmonkey2> something is horribly wrong.....
03:09 <@preaction> that's the shell script i was talking about, not the other thing
03:13 < perlmonkey2> okay, finally got the error output: 080210 20:12:42 [ERROR] /data/wre/prereqs/libexec/mysqld: Can't create/write to file '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.pid' (Errcode: 2)
03:13 < perlmonkey2> 080210 20:12:42 [ERROR] Can't start server: can't create PID file: No such file or directory
03:13 < perlmonkey2> should I create a mysqld directory in /var/run?
03:14 < perlmonkey2> what has happened?
03:14 <@preaction> it shouldn't be trying to do that. you can specify on the command-line what you want the pid file to be i think. somewhere in that shell script is the key
03:15 < perlmonkey2> But hwo would the my.cnf file be changed?
03:15 <@preaction> it wasn't. that script can override the my.cnf file
03:15 < perlmonkey2> wait a second.....there shouldn't be a my.cnf in /etc/
03:16 <@preaction> no, there shouldn't
03:16 <@preaction> it shouldn't be looking for one either. that script shouldn't have any reference to it
03:16 < perlmonkey2> looks like my clients two bit hoster does one of those "reimages" where htey "auto-fix" anything tha tisn't normal.
03:17 < perlmonkey2> removing the /etc/my.cnf fixed it.
03:17 <@preaction> nice
03:17 < perlmonkey2> the wre install isntructions say to copy it to .old
03:17 < perlmonkey2> wow.....maybe it isn't too late for me to get them to move to PB.
03:18 <@preaction> we have VPS at reasonable rates
03:22 < perlmonkey2> the client didn't go with PB because of disk.
03:23 < perlmonkey2> But if their two bit hoster can't stop playing with the os config files, it wont' matter how much disk they have.
03:34 < perlmonkey2> well this is no good, the root password for mysql isn't working, now that i can connect.
03:34 <@preaction> uhoh
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03:36 < perlmonkey2> I can reset it, but how did it get changed :D
03:37 < Samus_Aran> does anyone know why WebGUI might be running in ultra slow motion ?  it is taking an average 5 to 10 seconds to load a page, on an unloaded server with tons of RAM
03:37 < Samus_Aran> the spectre perl daemon keeps on ending up with hundreds of MiB of RAM used.  and wait state is the main thing that seems to be shooting up in top
03:37 < Samus_Aran> the apache processes are using little CPU themselves
03:38 < Samus_Aran> I am using the latest stable release.  I haven't used WebGUI since version 4.x, which was lightning fast even on an old system, so I'm not too sure what's going on now
03:39 < perlmonkey2> hey, I'm having that exact same problem
03:39 < perlmonkey2>  Does the wre phone home and autoupdate?
03:39 < Samus_Aran> perlmonkey2: hm
03:40 < Samus_Aran> what is a wre ?
03:41 < perlmonkey2> webgui runtime environment
03:41 < Samus_Aran> ah.  I don't know much about the WRE, as I installed manually.  the server has other web sites and databases on it, so I can't use the WRE
03:41 <+Radix-wrk> Samus_Aran: I'd highly recommend the wre if you want a fast/optimised webgui setup these days
03:42 < Samus_Aran> Radix-wrk: we have only one server, and it already runs database and web content.  not sure how the WRE could be usable in such a situation
03:43 < perlmonkey2> Radix-wrk: I'm on my second server meltdown using the wre....never had any problems with source.
03:43 < Samus_Aran> does anyone know if this ultra sluggy issue is just with the most recent release, or if it has been a problem for people for a while ?  (or is it just me)
03:43 <+Radix-wrk> Fair enough - though you may want to look at some of the settings for the wre and how it's set up to get an idea of how to optimise things
03:43 < perlmonkey2> I can't log into the database with root, even though I reset the password
03:43 < perlmonkey2> or at least think I did.
03:43 < Samus_Aran> I followed the guide more or less exactly.  it is up and running without visible errors
03:44 < Samus_Aran> but the spectre script is using huge amounts of RAM, which doesn't seem normal to me.  and there is apparently heavy disk writing, as the IO wait time goes up to 60% for many seconds after I do something on the WebGUI site
03:45 < Samus_Aran> I don't mind up or downgrading if it might help
03:45 <@preaction> what is spectre spinning its gears on?
03:45 < Samus_Aran> I have no content yet ... but it took me ten minutes just to delete a couple items off the menus.  =/
03:45 <@preaction> if you turn off spectre, does the site respond faster?
03:46 < Samus_Aran> preaction: I thought spectre was required for it to run.  or is it only required for versioning ?  I will most likely not be using versioning on this site, just server backups
03:46 < Samus_Aran> I will try closing spectre
03:46 <@preaction> spectre is required for executing workflows and scheduled tasks (which spawn workflows). it's the offline execution engine. 
03:46 <@preaction> things will work without it, but some things won't happen unless it's running
03:46 <@preaction> like sending mail
03:46 <@preaction> or committing version tags
03:47 < Samus_Aran> well, the contact form needs to e-mail the message
03:47 < Samus_Aran> does that use spectre ?
03:47 <@preaction> even if you're not using versioning, you may need spectre (if your default workflow is not "Commit Content Immediately")
03:47 <@preaction> yes
03:47 <@preaction> we're trying to narrow down the list of possible causes here
03:47 <@preaction> so we turn off spectre, and then try loading pages
03:48 <@preaction> what kind of system are you running this on? 1Ghz / 1Gig are about the minimum i would attempt to run WebGUI on these days
03:48 < Samus_Aran> I did "perl spectre.pl --shutdown" and continued to use the web pages.  it is still the same slow speed
03:48 < Samus_Aran> dual 1.6Ghz, 1GiB RAM
03:49 <@preaction> okay. how's vmstat look? are we swapping in and/or out?
03:49 < Samus_Aran> preaction: that is a pretty sad minimum requirement.  sigh.  I guess I should have researched before trying WebGUI 7.x
03:50 <@preaction> why? webgui is huge. and in order to get quicker responses it does a lot of caching, both on-disk and in-memory
03:50 < Samus_Aran> the Linux kernel caches things very well, caching by the app will only end up swapping to disk
03:51 <@preaction> it caches mysql queries? perl object instanciation?
03:51 < Samus_Aran> files
03:51 < Samus_Aran> other PHP code that uses databases on this system is instantaneous.  page loads in under .1 second
03:51 < Samus_Aran> minimum 5 seconds on WeGUI currently, with an average of around 8 seconds
03:52 < Samus_Aran> sometimes 20-30
03:52 <@preaction> you can't compare "other PHP code that uses databases" to "WebGUI". they're entirely different beasts
03:52 < Samus_Aran> also spectre is often using up 8-10% CPU when no page requests are going on, that seems quite excessive for a background monitoring daemon
03:53 <@preaction> WebGUI has an average of 30 db reads and 1 write per request
03:53 <@preaction> it's not a monitoring daemon, it's an offline execution daemon
03:53 < Samus_Aran> so long as the database is left open, that would still be nearly instantaneous on this system
03:53 <@preaction> it runs things that would cause browsers to time-out or that users don't want to see running
03:53 <@preaction> which is why we're troubleshooting, no?
03:54 < Samus_Aran> which way do you want me to check the vmstat you asked about ?
03:55 <@preaction> i just wanted to see if your box was swapping. that could cause significant delays and IO wait. are you running webgui in its own apache or alongside mod_php and others?
03:55 <@preaction> you're using prefork right?
03:56 < Samus_Aran> preaction: (regarding the multiple database queries, one of the other sites here sometimes has dozens of database queries per hit as well, always under half a second)
03:56 < Samus_Aran> apache you mean ?
03:57 < Samus_Aran> apache2-mpm-prefork is already the newest version.
03:57 < Samus_Aran> that's what is on there now
03:57 < Samus_Aran> the server is running Ubuntu 6.06 LTS
03:57 < Samus_Aran> Apache/2.0.55
03:57 <@preaction> okay. now, you're using PerlRequire /data/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl right?
03:59 <@preaction> you're also using Apache2::Reload to make sure the apache processes don't get out of control, right?
03:59 < Samus_Aran> http://rafb.net/p/iJzHcV35.txt  << this is the virtual host
03:59 < Samus_Aran> (I replaced the domain name with "foo")
04:00 <@preaction> er.. sizelimit, right. not reload
04:00 < Samus_Aran> how would I check about Apache2::Reload ?
04:00 <@preaction> don't worry about it, devs would use it
04:00 <@preaction> bad for production servers
04:01 <@preaction> uhm... WebguiRoot is /data/WebGUI but PerlRequire /var/www/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl ? where is WebGUI really?
04:01 <@preaction> how many megs are these apache processes taking up? shouldn't be any more than 80 or 90M
04:01 < Samus_Aran> WebGUI is installed to /var/www/WebGUI.  for each place the documentation mentioned a path in a file, I updated it accordingly
04:02 < Samus_Aran> Apache2::Reload is up to date (0.09).
04:02 < Samus_Aran> (from cpan
04:02 < Samus_Aran> )
04:02 <@preaction> so why PerlSetVar WebguiRoot /data/WebGUI ?
04:03 < Samus_Aran> http://rafb.net/p/mh7NHq38.txt  << apache processes
04:03 < Samus_Aran> it is ?  I redid the virtual host at some point after I messed things up, I may have missed it the second time.  *goes to look*
04:04 < Samus_Aran> how could it run without that being set ?
04:04 < Samus_Aran> I have adjusted it now, restarting apache
04:11 < Samus_Aran> I have noticed since restarting Apache that the initial apache process, the one run by root that I assume spawns the others, is sitting there using CPU (3-10% average)
04:11 < Samus_Aran> hm
04:12 < Samus_Aran> no change in page loading/editing speed
04:14 <@preaction> i would say the problem is probably that since WebGUI isn't the only thing being done by that apache, it doesn't keep a lot of the WebGUI stuff in-memory (frees space to be used to load other scripts)
04:14 <@preaction> is this a production box? could you test with only webgui vhost on?
04:14 <@preaction> i run the WRE, so i got no clue. but you could run the WRE's mod_perl instance behind your own apache running mod_proxy (much like the WRE does)
04:15 < Samus_Aran> it is a production box, however the organisation is not large, and it only really needs to be functional during weekdays
04:15 <+Radix-wrk> I use the wre, but have a separate apache install for php websites and use the wre's modproxy to do the work
04:15 < Samus_Aran> so I could try something else right now
04:16 <+Radix-wrk> so mod_perl for webgui is on port 81, mod_php on port 82, etc
04:17 <+Radix-wrk> does the webgui admin guide have much info on tuning apache/mod_proxy?
04:17 <@apeiron> Radix-wrk, So the mod_proxy server receives all the requests on 80, and then forwards internally to 81 or 82, etc., es?
04:17 <@apeiron> s/es/yes/
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04:19 < Samus_Aran> I am willing to try the WRE in that way.  didn't know it could co-exist with a regular Apache/PHP/Perl/MySQL setup
04:20 <@preaction> yeah. the WRE is two apache instances: one mod_proxy, one mod_perl. i've had a few people forgoe the mod
04:20 <@preaction> _proxy one and just run the mod_perl one
04:24 <+Radix-wrk> the biggest issue is more with mysql - as it won't co-exist with another instance
04:25 <+Radix-wrk> I switched distro's mysql databases over to the wre one myself, but you can do it the other way if you want too
04:25 <+Radix-wrk> that's the only hassle with co-existance really though
04:26 <@preaction> yeah, shouldn't matter if you do or do not use the wre's mysql really
04:26 <@preaction> hell. you might be able to get by just by stealing the modperl.conf file out of the WRE and running it with your own apache
04:27 <@preaction> whether it's the WRE's apache or not shouldn't matter. just give webgui its own dedicated bit of apache + memory (2 processes perhaps)
04:28 <+Radix-wrk> I run my wre on a virtual server with 256mb ram myself - seems to run fine
04:28 <@preaction> how much cache does mysql have? 300M+?
04:28 <+Radix-wrk> I did tweak the mysql settings down a bit to compensate, but juga.biz is still pretty fast
04:29 <+Radix-wrk> I forget what I actually changed tho :)
04:33 <+Radix-wrk> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m715140a5 - that's a copy of my my.cnf file with 256MB ram
04:49 < Samus_Aran> okay.  I was away a bit, back now.
04:49 < Samus_Aran> preaction: how do you think I should proceed at this point ?
04:49 < Samus_Aran> trying a manual install of the latest beta or using the WRE with my existing setup, or ?
04:50 <@preaction> see how well webgui runs when it's the only thing on the apache server, probably by making a seperate apache instance that only runs WebGUI (on a different port)
04:50 < Samus_Aran> I don't mind turning off Apache/MySQL/etc. for testing
04:51 <@preaction> well, it's not spectre, you could probably turn that back on
04:51 < Samus_Aran> will try the WRE in /data/WebGUI then
04:51 <@preaction> wait, what?
04:52 < Samus_Aran> mm ?
04:52 < Samus_Aran> I was going to turn off MySQL and Apache and try the WRE by itself, to check perormance
04:52 < Samus_Aran> *performance
04:52 <@preaction> ok
04:54 < Samus_Aran> is wre-0.8.1-ubuntu-6_server-ia32.tar.gz the correct file ?
04:54 <@preaction> probably. are you running a 32-bit cpu?
04:54 < Samus_Aran> yes
05:04 < Samus_Aran> the install notes have conflicting information about the directory structure underneath /data
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05:04 < Samus_Aran> the non-symlink instructions will end up with /data/wre and the symlink instructions will give you /data/wre/wre
05:04 < Samus_Aran> I assume with only one "wre" is the correct structure
05:06 < Samus_Aran> "Create your DNS entries (or add entries to /etc/hosts) for the sites you will be using, including the AWStats site."
05:06 < Samus_Aran> what is AWStats ?
05:07 <@preaction> it's an apache log analyzer
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06:58 < Samus_Aran> preaction: I was away, back to trying out the WRE now.  I thought it came with its own MySQL ?  it is saying when going through the web based installer that it couldn't connect to a MySQL server
06:59 < Samus_Aran> Couldn't connect to MySQL because DBI connect('test;host=localhost;port=3306','root',...) failed
06:59 < Samus_Aran> I shut down MySQL and Apache, and renamed the my.conf file, prior to running this installer
06:59 <@preaction> it does, did you start it? are you running the right environment? before working with the WRE stuff you need to source in ". /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment.sh"
07:00 <@preaction> (the space between the . and / is important)
07:01 < Samus_Aran> I did "source setenvironment.sh" prior to starting the web installer
07:02 < Samus_Aran> which should be the same as .
07:02 <@preaction> what does wreservice.pl --ping mysql say?
07:04 < Samus_Aran> I have both /data/WebGUI and /data/wre, is that correct ?
07:05 < Samus_Aran> Ping MySQL:           FAILED!
07:06 <@preaction> that means the wre's mysql isn't up or can't be reached
07:07 < Samus_Aran> I would like to find out why it can't start it
07:07 <@preaction> try doing "mysqld_safe"
07:07 < Samus_Aran> I didn't change any of the MySQL settings other than the passwort
07:07 < Samus_Aran> mysqld_safe from where ?
07:09 < Samus_Aran> nevermind, it's in the path after the source environment thing
07:09 < Samus_Aran> anyhow, I went back to the other screen, and it has error messages about setting up MySQL.  looking over them now
07:10 < Samus_Aran> ERROR: 1  Can't create/write to file '/data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql/db.MYI' (Errcode: 13)
07:10 < Samus_Aran> 080210 20:57:49 [ERROR] Aborting                                                                      
07:10 < Samus_Aran> not sure why it couldn't create it
07:10 < Samus_Aran> I ran the script as root
07:11 <@preaction> does mysqldata/mysql exist?
07:11 < Samus_Aran> drwx------ 2 webgui root 4.0K 2008-02-10 20:57 /data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql/
07:12 < Samus_Aran> odd permissions, root is the group, but it should ignore the "no write permission"
07:14 < Samus_Aran> any suggestions ?
07:20 < Samus_Aran> When I run mysqld_safe I get the following:
07:20 < Samus_Aran> Starting mysqld daemon with databases from /data/wre/var/mysqldata
07:20 < Samus_Aran> STOPPING server from pid file /data/wre/var/mysqldata/my_hostname.pid
07:20 < Samus_Aran> 080210 21:19:37  mysqld ended
07:20 < Samus_Aran> and there are no MySQL processes running
07:21 < Samus_Aran> I found an error log file with this in it: [ERROR] Can't start server : Bind on unix socket: Permission denied
07:21 <@preaction> check in /var/mysqldata/*.err
07:22 < Samus_Aran> [ERROR] Do you already have another mysqld server running on socket: /data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql.sock ?
07:22 < Samus_Aran> that's from that error file you mentioned
07:22 < Samus_Aran> there are no processes with "my" in it
07:22 < Samus_Aran> in the command name, I mean
07:24 < Samus_Aran> I didn't get an answer from you above about the structure of /data.  is there supposed to be /data/wre or /data/wre/wre ?  and should there be a /data/WebGUI directory as well ?
07:24 < Samus_Aran> the documentation has errors in it regarding this
07:26 -!- preaction_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui
07:26 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction_] by ChanServ
07:28 <@preaction_> it should be /data/wre and /data/WebGUI. no /data/wre/wre
07:30 < Samus_Aran> is there some way to track down why it thinks that it has already started its MySQL server ?
07:32 < Samus_Aran> looked through the running processes and see the previous spectre.pl still running.  closed that now
07:33 < Samus_Aran> made no difference
07:35 < Samus_Aran> I just realised that /data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql.sock does not exist
07:35 < Samus_Aran> it's not that something else is using it, it was just never created
07:37  * Samus_Aran sighs
07:39 < Samus_Aran> starting over
07:41 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
07:45 < Samus_Aran> the web installer asks for a MySQL username and password.  I changed the password, and then it doesn't work.  it works with the default password
07:46 < Samus_Aran> why does it give you the option to change the password if it is not going to be using it ?
07:46 <@preaction_> the error that happened about starting the server probably caused the wreconsole to not update the password
07:46 <@preaction_> it has to be able to start the mysqld in order to change the password
07:47 < Samus_Aran> but the only change I made was this time not changing the password -- and then MySQL started fine
07:47 <@preaction_> mysql doesn't need a password to start
07:48 <@preaction_> who knows what happened, the point is you could change that password now if you wanted to
07:52 < Samus_Aran> there is nowhere in the web interface that I see to change the password, only the setup
07:55 < Samus_Aran> when I click on Spectre in the list of services tab, it says starting, and then goes back to a [Start] button
07:55 < Samus_Aran> no errors
07:55 < Samus_Aran> the other services started
07:56 < Samus_Aran> sorry, there was an error, just couldn't see it, it was so small: "Spectre did not start successfully.
07:56 < Samus_Aran> "
07:56 < Samus_Aran> "to_json" is not exported by the JSON module                                                          
07:56 < Samus_Aran> Can't continue after import errors at ../lib/Spectre/Cron.pm line 22
07:59 < Samus_Aran> sigh.  I can't add a site using the web interface.  I don't know the MySQL password
07:59 < Samus_Aran> I thought it was qwe123
08:03 < Samus_Aran> 123qwe ...
08:08 < Samus_Aran> anyhow, the WRE's Spectre is broken
08:08 < Samus_Aran> it has issues with its own Perl modules
08:08 < Samus_Aran> assuming that the JSON thing is part of the WRE
08:09 < Samus_Aran> when I try to connect to the new WebGUI site I get: Bad Gateway - The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.
08:13 <+Radix-wrk> the mysql password is specified when you first installed the wre
08:13 < Samus_Aran> I know, but it wouldn't let me change it, so I used the default, which I didn't remember
08:14 < Samus_Aran> this is an absolute nightmare to set up compared to WebGUI 4.x
08:14 -!- preaction__ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui
08:14 <+Radix-wrk> agreed - though admittedly it's changed hugely since version 4 too
08:14 < Samus_Aran> all of the UI changes I have seen thus far I find to be far worse
08:14 -!- preaction_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
08:14 <+Radix-wrk> that said.. I've had no problems installing a wre system out of the box within 10 minutes in the past
08:15 < Samus_Aran> on the old versions it was clear to a new user where to go to get things done
08:15 < Samus_Aran> now the menus are utterly confusing
08:15 < Samus_Aran> something as simple as adding a content item to a page is confusing
08:15 <+Radix-wrk> why?
08:15 <+Radix-wrk> it's pretty easy.. click new content on the left, and select what object you want
08:16 < Samus_Aran> the UI says it is adding a new page when you do that
08:16 <+Radix-wrk> everything is a "page" in webgui
08:17 <+Radix-wrk> every object has it's own url
08:17 < preaction__> version 5 added the "asset" system, no?
08:17 < preaction__> or was it 6.x series?
08:17 < preaction__> there have been so many changes, Samus_Aran, you may as well treat it as an entirely different system
08:17 < Samus_Aran> I'm talking about a section on a page.  the things you drag around
08:18 < preaction__> they are pages too
08:18 < preaction__> they have urls
08:18 < Samus_Aran> a column or section
08:18 < preaction__> you can go to just them
08:18 < Samus_Aran> well that is extremely messed up
08:18 < preaction__> and that is an extremely obtuse opinion
08:18 <+Radix-wrk> Actually I tend to agree there to a certain extent.. I wish pages were the only thing that had urls
08:19 <+Radix-wrk> but that said, it's never really bothered me
08:19 < Samus_Aran> it is entirely counter-intuitive
08:19 < preaction__> only container assets?
08:19 <+Radix-wrk> I just don't care what urls objects have, as long as my pages have the urls I want
08:19 < preaction__> so message boards, page layouts, and wikis
08:19 <+Radix-wrk> they're the only ones that appear in navigation items anyway
08:19 < preaction__> but how do you get to a wiki page then?
08:19 < preaction__> myWikiUrl?node=something?
08:20 < preaction__> that's ugly
08:20 < preaction__> how do you get to a forum post? myMessageBoard?collab=id;thread=id;post=id?
08:20 < preaction__> that's better than myMessageBoard/collab/thread/post?
08:20 <+Radix-wrk> I think of pages, forums, etc as containers
08:21 < preaction__> what if i think of a thread as a container? do i lose out?
08:21 < preaction__> is a calendar a container or can their event be containers too?
08:21 <+Radix-wrk> well I find it all pretty confusing actually :)
08:22 < preaction__> i agree it can be counter-intuitive, even backwards, but everything in the system has a URL, no matter what
08:22 < preaction__> would you prefer a query string or something friendly?
08:22 < preaction__> bonus: we don't use mod_rewrite to do it
08:23 < Samus_Aran> I am considering going back to 4.x.  It worked, was fast and did the things I needed it to do
08:24 < preaction__> 4.x even still works as a CGI, instead of mod_perl
08:24 <+Radix-wrk> Samus_Aran: that's a shame - there's a lot to love in the new versions imho
08:25 <+Radix-wrk> version control for one
08:25 <+Radix-wrk> depends what you're after though I guess
08:30 < Samus_Aran> version control is another example of how confusing WebGUI 7.xi s
08:30 < Samus_Aran> *7.x is
08:30 < Samus_Aran> I tried to use it and immediately the whole site was destroyed
08:30 < Samus_Aran> didn't even have a template
08:30 < preaction__> buy the content manager's guide perhaps?
08:31 < Samus_Aran> I shouldn't have to purchase a book to use an open source product.  WebGUI 4.x was easy to use with the help at the time
08:31 < preaction__> Samus_Aran, then keep pushing on, eventually you'll understand it
08:31 < Samus_Aran> and I would have to justify the book purchase and it would take at least a week
08:31 < preaction__> you don't need to purchase the book, it just makes it easier
08:31 < Samus_Aran> I don't have a week to sit on my hands
08:33 < Samus_Aran> I would find a versioning system the same as a Wiki quite useful.  WebGUI seems to use some other strange system
08:34 < Samus_Aran> plus there is no description of how to use it from the actual page.  I clicked on the first item in the list and it promptly destroyed the whole WebGUI install
08:35 < preaction__> no, it didn't. unless you clicked a big red X 
08:35 < Samus_Aran> I believe it reverted to a pre-install state
08:36 < Samus_Aran> I was trying to reset some changes I had done, to see how it worked
08:36 < preaction__> and i don't believe you. any deleting of a version tag or any content pops up a javascript alert box saying "Are you sure?"
08:36 < Samus_Aran> but it erased everything, including the template
08:36 < Samus_Aran> the site wasjust white after that
08:36 < Samus_Aran> *was jsut
08:36 < Samus_Aran> *just
08:36 < preaction__> so you had rollback version tag?
08:36 < preaction__> the current one, the Autotag for Admin?
08:36 < Samus_Aran> there was one item in a list, I clicked on rollback, assuming it would rollback to the base-install time
08:37 < Samus_Aran> or whatever the feature is that I thought was a rollback
08:37 < preaction__> what list? what item? under the Version Tags icon of the Admin Console?
08:37 < Samus_Aran> I am not sure from my memory
08:37 < Samus_Aran> I can't even load the WRE version of WebGUI
08:37 < Samus_Aran> Bad Gateway
08:37 < preaction__> the white page was probably the URL you were on disappearing, since you deleted the content
08:37 < Samus_Aran> The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.
08:38 < Samus_Aran> it still had a basic menu, but there was no longer any template
08:38 < preaction__> means the proxied server isn't running. the proxy can't reach the server it's trying to reach
08:38 < preaction__> so there was a menu on the left side with a list of a bunch of stuff, right?
08:38 < preaction__> plus maybe a list in the larger area on the right perhaps?
08:39 < Samus_Aran> I am talking about clicking on something about versioning on the left administrator menu, then on the right page that loads, choosing the only version listed, then telling it to use that one
08:39 < Samus_Aran> and it proceeding (after the JS warning) to erase everything
08:40 < Samus_Aran> what sort of performance can be expected from a WebGUI install that is actually working properly ?
08:41 < Samus_Aran> on WebGUI 4.x on a crappy old computer running Debian where I was testing it, it ran extremely fast with 8-10 users
08:41 < preaction__> we run 50-60 webgui sites on 2x2.4Ghz / 4G servers running CentOS 5
08:41 < preaction__> we run servers with 30,000+ registered users on one of those boxes, dedicated
08:41 < Samus_Aran> this was back in 2002 or 2001 I think.  whenever 4.x was around
08:42 < preaction__> load stays less than 0.5, response times for a 300kB page are around 10 seconds
08:42 <+Radix-wrk> you seen demo.plainblack.com?
08:42 < Samus_Aran> are you saying you dedicate a dual 2.4Ghz system to 1 site ?  or 50-60 sites ?
08:42 < Samus_Aran> yes, I have used the demo
08:42 <+Radix-wrk> 50-60 sites
08:42 < preaction__> we've got one box with 80 sites, and that stays at about 2 load. we dont' monitor that one anymore (the owner was told of the consequences of having more than 70 sites)
08:43 < preaction__> both. 1 site with 30,000+ registered users
08:43 < preaction__> and 50-60 smaller sites
08:43 < Samus_Aran> 10 seconds response time for LAN access is ludicrous
08:43 < preaction__> i'm talking internet
08:43 < preaction__> i don't live in the datacenter
08:44 < preaction__> i have DSL. 100kB/s when i'm not using it for other purposes
08:44 < Samus_Aran> I mean, we will be updating and using the site on a LAN.  300KiB in 10 seconds is only 30KiB/sec, which I assume you have way more bandwidth than that
08:44 < Samus_Aran> so the bottleneck is CPU
08:44 < Samus_Aran> or disk access
08:44 < preaction__> if there was a CPU bottleneck, the load would be far higher than .5
08:44 < Samus_Aran> even our basic business DSL account gets use 60KiB/sec upstream
08:44 < Samus_Aran> *gets us
08:45 < preaction__> okay. we must be talking two different languages here
08:45 < Samus_Aran> so why then does it take 10 seconds to load a page ?
08:45 < preaction__> I... Me personally... do not live anywhere near the datacenter we use
08:45 < Samus_Aran> do you have broadband ?
08:45 < Samus_Aran> if so, it should make no difference
08:45 < preaction__> I... Me personally... at my home... have a crappy DSL connection that is being 75% used by bittorrent at all time.
08:46 <+Radix-wrk> our webgui server is a 3GHz P4 with 1GB ram - that runs a website with about 9300 users (who access it rarely) and over 5200 assets and it's on our lan and I usually get a page in a second or two at most.
08:46 < preaction__> i will load the site i am talking about right now and report on the time it takes
08:46 <+Radix-wrk> that's our website, intranet, extranet, users account server, all in one
08:47 < Samus_Aran> I would like to find out why my manual install of WebGUI was going in slow motion on an otherwise unloaded server
08:47 < Samus_Aran> if you're saying it should now be that way
08:47 < Samus_Aran> but I would also like to know why spectre was using hundreds and hundreds of megs of RAM
08:47 < preaction__> if you want support, plain black offers ad hoc login support at reasonable rates
08:47 < Samus_Aran> and the apache threads were using almost 100MiB each
08:48 < preaction__> i've explained the apache threads to you already: mod_perl, WebGUI, mod_php, etc... all take up memory
08:48 < preaction__> the reason we use Apache2::SizeLimit is because mod_perl doesn't seem to like cleaning up after itself. apache also, because it kills its own children after so many connections / so much time
08:49 < preaction__> Apache2::SizeLimit is just more efficient and more configurable about how the processes die
08:49 < Samus_Aran> what is an empty WebGUI site doing that requires more than half a gig of RAM ?
08:50 < Samus_Aran> my fresh install was using around 650MiB RAM in total
08:50 < preaction__> it's not half a gig. WebGUI before it forks (mpm_prefork) takes about 70M (that's apache process + perl code + memory cache)
08:50 < preaction__> 70M per process
08:50 < preaction__> * 5 processes (apache's default StartServers)
08:50 < Samus_Aran> and 350MiB for spectre
08:50 < preaction__> 350M
08:51 < preaction__> spectre grows slowly, usually due to errors talking to WebGUI
08:51 < Samus_Aran> it had only been running, idle, for 2.5 days
08:52 < Samus_Aran> I worked on it on Thursday
08:52 < Samus_Aran> and then again now on Sunday
08:52 < Samus_Aran> if it keeps growing, how does a hosted WebGUI server manage to not constantly run out of RAM ?
08:53 < Samus_Aran> cronjobs to kill and restart the service constantly ?
08:53 <+Radix-wrk> spectre is using 20mb on my server and 58-68mb for each apache process
08:53 -!- ryuu_ro [n=rory@194.171.50.69] has joined #webgui
08:53 <+Radix-wrk> load average is 0.05 for me
08:53 < Samus_Aran> Radix-wrk: how long has spectre been running ?
08:54 <+Radix-wrk> up 34 days
08:54 < preaction__> if there are problems connecting to WebGUI, it slowly grows.
08:55 <+Radix-wrk> that's with a stock wre install that I compiled myself
08:55 < preaction__> we restart it on the demo box because when demo sites are removed, it needs to be restarted
08:56 <+Radix-wrk> that's running on a via C7 1Ghz processor with 1GB ram - and is my home router/gateway/pc
08:56 < preaction__> it's been more than 3 hours of you complaining about WebGUI. if you want real support, Plain Black offers it. if you follow the advice i've given you, others have given you, and the instructions, you can fix your problems.
08:56 < Samus_Aran> this is my WRE, by default without any modifications: 37080+504+34544+57988+57672+57668+57668+57668+57668+2248+2432+2328+2328+2328+2332+2264
08:57 < Samus_Aran> and no spectre, as it won't load
08:57 < Samus_Aran> 434720 KiB
08:57 < Samus_Aran> RSS column of PS, grepping for things from /data/
08:58 < Samus_Aran> preaction__: you stopped answering my questions about an hour ago
08:58 < Samus_Aran> preaction__: I don't think you owe anything to me, but don't say that I wasn't following
08:58 < Samus_Aran> I was trying my very best to try everything you said I should try
08:58 < Samus_Aran> and your help is very much appreciated
08:59 < Samus_Aran> Spectre will not load for me with a stock WRE
08:59 < Samus_Aran> it complains about JSON
08:59 < Samus_Aran> and I can't connect to the WebGUI site I added, with the above proxy error
09:00 <+Radix-wrk> there's some stuff in gotchas.txt about JSON I seem to recall
09:00  * Samus_Aran goes to look
09:00 < preaction__> the 0.8.1 WRE needs updated JSON and Config::JSON. this will be fixed in WRE 0.8.2
09:00 <+Radix-wrk> stable version of webgui doesn't like newest version of JSON - and new 7.5.1 version fixes it or something
09:01 < preaction__> no. latest stable (7.4.22) and latest beta (7.5.1) both need JSON 2.04 and Config::JSON 1.1.4
09:01 < Samus_Aran> "to_json" is not exported by the JSON module
09:01 < Samus_Aran> Can't continue after import errors at ../lib/Spectre/Cron.pm line 22
09:01 < Samus_Aran> is the error
09:01 <+Radix-wrk> run testEnvironment.pl
09:02 < preaction__> won't work. you need to force install Config::JSON
09:02 < Samus_Aran> Config::JSON is up to date (1.1.4).
09:03 < Samus_Aran> when I did the manual install, testEnvironment.pl found every module it checked, other than one which it would always say it didn't find, even though it was installed
09:03 < Samus_Aran> though I thought the WRE contained the complete Perl environment ?
09:03 < preaction__> spectre is being run under the WRE? you're running testEnvironment.pl under the WRE's environment? what does echo $PATH say?
09:03 < Samus_Aran> I haven't run testEnvironment.pl from the WRE
09:04 < preaction__> did you run cpan from the WRE's environment?
09:04 < Samus_Aran> you mean the all-in-one WRE is distributed broken ?
09:05 < Samus_Aran> that rather defeats the purpose of an all-in-one download with all the servers
09:05 <+Radix-wrk> it just needs a few updated perl modules for the newer versions that've come out since it was released
09:07 < Samus_Aran> I am updating the modules using the testEnvironment.pl script.  hopefully that will place the modules in the correct perl
09:08 < preaction__> it only will if you tell it to
09:08 < Samus_Aran> what do you mean ?
09:08 < preaction__> it will put the modules in the correct place for the perl that is running
09:09 < Samus_Aran> the perl that is running is whatever perl the testEnvironment.pl script launched
09:09 <+Radix-wrk> you need to use ". /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment"
09:09 < Samus_Aran> with the setenvironment.sh run first
09:09 < Samus_Aran> yes
09:09 < Samus_Aran> *sourced, not run
09:10 <+Radix-wrk> as long as 'which perl' comes up with the one in the /data/wre directory you're fine
09:13 < Samus_Aran> it has already installed at least a dozen Perl modules
09:13 < Samus_Aran> prereq's for the JSON update
09:15 < Samus_Aran> hm, a lot more than a dozen.  maybe 40.  it's just whipping through them
09:20 < Samus_Aran> Checking for module Config::JSON: 1.1.1 is installed, but we need at least 1.1.2, do you want to upgrade it now? {y|n} [y]
09:21 < Samus_Aran> Going to read /root/.cpan-webgui/Metadata
09:21 < Samus_Aran> Config::JSON is up to date.
09:21 < Samus_Aran> so if cpan doesn't have it, how do I get 1.1.2 as needed ?
09:22 < preaction__> you want 1.1.4. cpan does have it. you need to force install it
09:24 <+Radix-wrk> I think it might be a bug in 1.1.1 - it reports itself as 1.1.4 or something
09:24 < Samus_Aran> okay, done
09:25 < Samus_Aran> only one not OK now is:
09:25 < Samus_Aran> Checking for module Graphics::Magick:             Not Installed, but it's optional anyway             
09:25 < Samus_Aran> I would like that to be installed, but it doesn't seem to have a cpan listing.  I installed it through Ubuntu
09:25 < preaction__> you want image::magic, not graphics::magick
09:26 < Samus_Aran> I think it requires a full ImageMagick to be installed
09:26 < Samus_Aran> image::magic or magick ?
09:26 < preaction__> magick
09:26 < Samus_Aran> Image::Magick is up to date.
09:26 < preaction__> so you're fine
09:27 < Samus_Aran> when I did the manual install, I got Graphics::Magick installed, so that the testEnvironment.pl script gave it an OK
09:27 < Samus_Aran> are you saying the script is checking for something that is not used ?
09:27 < preaction__> that's the "but it's optional anyway" part
09:27 <+Radix-wrk> Graphics::Magick was added for FreeBSD I seem to recall.. which had problems with imagemagick
09:28 < Samus_Aran> I would like all features to be available, is what I mean
09:28 < preaction__> yah, but apeiron got IM compiling under WRE for FreeBSD so we don't need GM anymore
09:28 < Samus_Aran> e.g. Aspell is also optional, but I installed it
09:28 <+Radix-wrk> you won't need it
09:28 < Samus_Aran> okay, thank you
09:28 < preaction__> it uses one or the other, not both. if you have IM, it uses that. otherwise it tries to use GM. if it doesn't find either, it dies
09:29 < Samus_Aran> okay, everything seems to be working now.  Spectre started successfully
09:29 < Samus_Aran> I still get the other error when trying to access the domain, though:
09:29 < Samus_Aran> Bad Gateway
09:29 < Samus_Aran> The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.
09:30 < preaction__> as i said before: it means that the proxy server can't connect to the server it's supposed to be proxy for
09:30 < Samus_Aran> isn't the server it is supposed to connect to the apache running in the WRE ?
09:31 < preaction__> is the modperl server running?
09:31 < Samus_Aran> which is running on the default ports during the install
09:31 < Samus_Aran> everything is running now
09:31 < preaction__> did you add any sites?
09:31 < Samus_Aran> MySQL, Apache Modperl, Apache Modproxy, Spectre, WRE Console
09:31 < Samus_Aran> I added one site
09:32 < preaction__> and that hostname is resolvable? can you connect to the modperl server directly using its port?
09:33 < Samus_Aran> I am stopping all the servers now, and restarting them
09:33 < Samus_Aran> yes, DNS is fine
09:34 <+Radix-wrk> try going to www.site.com:81
09:34 < preaction__> WRE 0.8 uses 8081 now
09:34 <+Radix-wrk> or whatever port you set modperl to be on
09:34 <+Radix-wrk> okay.. 8081 then
09:35 -!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui
09:36 < Samus_Aran> 'objToJson' will be obsoleted. Please use 'to_json' instead. at /data/wre/sbin/wreconsole.pl line 312
09:36 < Samus_Aran> Can't locate object method "autoconv" via package "JSON" at /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/JSON.pm line 122.
09:37 < Samus_Aran> is that error important ?
09:37 < Samus_Aran> not the deprecation part, but the autoconv
09:37 < preaction__> depends, what are you doing?
09:37 < preaction__> are you running 7.5.1 or 7.4.22?
09:37 < Samus_Aran> that was from the wreconsole.pl
09:37 < Samus_Aran> it died
09:38 < Samus_Aran> it dies when I go to the Settings tab of the web setup interface
09:38 < preaction__> yeah, it's going to do that until 0.8.2 is released
09:38 < Samus_Aran> okay
09:40 < Samus_Aran> I also don't like that it added a ServerAlias automatically.  I just realised that the regular web site would not be offline, it would be mapping to this beta sub-domain
09:40 < Samus_Aran> which seems quite wrong
09:41 < Samus_Aran> joe.mysite.com should not automatically show up at mysite.com
09:41 < preaction__> submit an RFE
09:41 < Samus_Aran> that defeats the whole purpose of sub-domains
09:41 < Samus_Aran> perhaps if the subdomain is "www" then it would be an alright default
09:41 < Samus_Aran> though a redirect is the proper way to handle that, not a ServerAlias
09:42 < Samus_Aran> ServerAlias's should pretty much not ever be used
09:42 < Samus_Aran> otherwise Google and such will end up with two copies of the site
09:44 < Samus_Aran> preaction__: to your question, I am on 7.4.22
09:44 < Samus_Aran> er, I think I am.  I was when I manually installed it
09:45 < Samus_Aran> now I'm on whatever the WRE installed
09:45 < Samus_Aran> I didn't see it mentioned
09:45 < Samus_Aran> is the mod proxy on 8081 allow access from anywhere, or just LAN ?
09:46 < Samus_Aran> and would I use the foo-server name or the domain name ?
09:47 < Samus_Aran> I am working remotely.  I did an SSH tunnel to access the foo-server:60834 at work
09:47 < Samus_Aran> would I need a similar tunnel for 8081, or should going to the domain name (which has proper DNS to the computer in question) be enough ?
09:52 < preaction__> it's meant to allow access from the box itself, localhost. not sure what your firewall allows
09:56 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"]
09:59 < Samus_Aran> I mean should I be able to access it using foobar.com:8081 ?
09:59 < Samus_Aran> I can not currently
10:00 < Samus_Aran> and yes, foobar.com's DNS does point to the appropriate IP and it is forwarded to the server in question
10:00 < Samus_Aran> or is it
10:00  * Samus_Aran goes to check the catch-all
10:08 < Samus_Aran> okay, forwarded a port manually and now I get to a login when going to the 8081 prot
10:08 < Samus_Aran> *port
10:09 < Samus_Aran> how can I fix the proxy so that I get to the site setup thing not on port 8081 ?
10:19 -!- preaction__ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Client Quit]
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15:52 < SDuensin> Greetings.
15:52 < ckotil> good morning
15:53 < SDuensin> Howdy.
15:58 < nuba> morning
16:13 < AMH_bob> mornin'
16:46 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui
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16:51 < BartJol> morning everyone
17:15 < perlmonkey2> preaction: Wanted to thank you for all your help yesterday.
17:19 <@preaction> morning
17:27 -!- ryuu_ro [n=rory@194.171.50.69] has quit []
17:37 < perlmonkey2> what would you think is wrong with the wre if netstat -ap returned about 15 pages of this: http://pastebin.com/d52d7b70c
17:40 < nuba> google docs now has forms to help the everyman collect data into spreadsheets http://www.google.com/google-d-s/whatsnew.html
17:41 < nuba> in a certain way, it sounds like a Thingy (Lite Edition)
17:43 < nuba> things would become more interesting the moment they start allowing people to link data from one spreadsheet to another
17:43 < perlmonkey2> hah, I was just wondering if they had an api for it :P
17:45 < nuba> there you go http://code.google.com/apis/spreadsheets/overview.html
17:47 -!- khenn [n=khenn@24-159-239-186.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
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18:19 < perlmonkey2> Ah, should there be a webgui user in the mysql.user table for the wre install?
18:19 < perlmonkey2> I have 4 users, root, test, backup and ''
18:20 < perlmonkey2> oh....no it is a random string...I'm guessing tha tis the webgui user.
18:20 < perlmonkey2> nm :)
18:22 <@preaction> each site has its own db user, which the wre system creates with that random string
18:25 < perlmonkey2> Do these start up wre log errors look fatal or abnormal? http://pastebin.com/d36421f85
18:25 < BartJol> you can find it in your config
18:25 < BartJol> sorry, i should mind my own business
18:26 < perlmonkey2> BartJol: ??? why?  I appreciate anyone's help
18:26 < BartJol> yeah, but i'm only confusing you right now
18:26 < perlmonkey2> No, I know what you mean.  
18:26 < BartJol> by using the wre, you create a config, so you can't look it up
18:27 < perlmonkey2> It's in the Webgui/etc/.conf :)
18:27 < BartJol> yeah that one :)
18:27 < BartJol> but dies anyone here now a thing or two about scratch variables?
18:28 < perlmonkey2> I'm on like hour 10 of trying to figure out why when webgui starts it creates 400 or so localhost tproxy connections, and would try to make more, but for os limits.
18:28 < BartJol> does not dies
18:28 < perlmonkey2> BartJol: I dream of the day when I can quit my job and learn all about webgui.
18:29 < BartJol> well, I'm allowed to spend a couple of hours a week programming
18:29 < BartJol> for my amusement and learning curve
18:30 < BartJol> but about the connections, I'm afraid I don't know
18:30 < perlmonkey2> completely driving me insane...the error logs are worthless.
18:36 < perlmonkey2> Is this a bad thing to see in the wre error logs: Compilation failed in require at /data/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl line 72.
18:37 < BartJol> well
18:37 < BartJol> not really
18:37 < perlmonkey2> I just don't get it......everything was working fine.  Nothing changed, but all of a sudden it wasn't.
18:38 < BartJol> mostly a script that is handled by perl and has some strange mistakes in them can give that
18:38 < perlmonkey2> the wre doesn't auto-update does it?
18:38 < BartJol> nop[e
18:38 < BartJol> you did do " .setenvironment.pl"
18:39 < BartJol> i suppose
18:39 < perlmonkey2> yes
18:39 < perlmonkey2> every time I'm starting something I do that.
18:39 < BartJol> can't do that often enough it seems
18:40 < perlmonkey2> heh, my path is like 400 lines long now I'v ran it so much.
18:41 < BartJol> but does the log also refer to another script?
18:41 < perlmonkey2> ?
18:41 < BartJol> or does your modperl log say something about it
18:41 < perlmonkey2> that is the error log for mod_perl
18:41 < perlmonkey2> just I'll relook
18:41 < BartJol> ah, darn
18:41 <@preaction> you might want to try running preload.perl by itself quick
18:42 < perlmonkey2> BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm line 21.
18:42 < perlmonkey2> Compilation failed in require at /data/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl line 72.
18:42 < perlmonkey2> is the full line.
18:42 < perlmonkey2> okay preaction I"ll try that.
18:42 <@preaction> ha
18:42 <@preaction> Image::ExifTool <- you're missing that i think
18:43 <@preaction> when you see BEGIN failed -- compilation aborted, try doing a: cd /data/WebGUI/lib; perl -c WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm
18:43 <@preaction> that'll show you the real error
18:44 < perlmonkey2> I'm missing a lot of files
18:44 < perlmonkey2> I get a lot of those.
18:44 < perlmonkey2> Can't locate Image/ExifTool.pm
18:44 <@preaction> which means you're missing that perl module
18:45 < perlmonkey2> Actually , if no one complains about the spam:
18:45 < perlmonkey2> Can't locate Image/ExifTool.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/5.8.8/i686-linux /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/5.8.8 /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/i686-linux /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8 /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl .) at WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm line 21.
18:45 < perlmonkey2> BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm line 21.
18:45 < perlmonkey2> preaction: But how could I be missing it, if I'm using the wre?
18:45 <@preaction> it's a new requirement
18:45 <@preaction> after 0.8.1 was released
18:46 < perlmonkey2> I'm just not sure how I got a version of webgui tha tneeds something the wre didn't supply.  and why it worked for a long time then stopped working.
18:46 < perlmonkey2> Should I update the wre?
18:46 <@preaction> there is no 0.8.2
18:46 < perlmonkey2> wreupgrade.pl
18:46 < perlmonkey2> oh.
18:46 < perlmonkey2> ah.
18:47 < perlmonkey2> so the wre is broken?
18:47 < perlmonkey2> and somehow I got an update of webgui that needs something that the wre doesn't have?
18:47 <@preaction> no. it's just missing some new developments in WebGUI
18:47 < perlmonkey2> oh...so this isn't the fatal issue I'm having?
18:48 <@preaction> this is the fatal issue you're having. even the WRE's installation instructions suggest running testEnvironment.pl
18:48  * perlmonkey2 has soooo much to learn about WebGUI.
18:50  * perlmonkey2 has money if you have a WG dev guide beta book :D
18:50 <@preaction> dev guide doesn't cover this stuff. this is admin guide stuff
18:51 <@preaction> dev guide covers coding and API
18:51 < perlmonkey2> yeah, something I would have instantly caught if I wasn't useing the WRE.
18:51 < perlmonkey2> I just assumed that there could not be any perl lib issues with the WRE.
18:51 <@preaction> you could probably post a bug as a reminder to JT to include that module in the WRE 0.8.2 when he's ready
18:51 < perlmonkey2> there are like 5
18:52 < perlmonkey2> modules that failed
18:52 <@preaction> Archive::Any, Image::ExifTool, are the two i know of
18:52 < perlmonkey2> oh
18:52 < perlmonkey2> those are the two I have
18:53 <@preaction> those are the two i added for the Gallery
18:53 < perlmonkey2> with broken cpan requirements trees
18:53 < perlmonkey2> thanks :D
18:53 <@preaction> the updated JSON and Config::JSON, but i think there's already a bug out there about those
18:53 < perlmonkey2> yeah, that seems fixed.
18:53 < perlmonkey2> I just don't get how it worked on my system, then stopped working without an upgrade or anything.
18:54  * perlmonkey2 just realized he's updating perl in /usr/lib instead of /dat
18:55 < nuba> happens
18:55 < nuba> sometimes
18:55 < perlmonkey2> oh, no I'm not....setEnv , duh
18:55 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat039.mxim.com] has joined #webgui
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18:56 <+perlDreamer> whoa!
18:56 <+perlDreamer> It's xdanger
18:56 <+perlDreamer> he's back
18:56 <+perlDreamer> (at least in bot form)
18:57 < perlmonkey2> preaction: that didn't fix things, but it made the error logs a lot cleaner: http://pastebin.com/d12e825f9
18:58 <@preaction> if your server reached MaxClients, with no users, you have a problem. modperl's httpd.conf is at /data/wre/etc/modperl.conf
18:58 < perlmonkey2> that error log is associated with about 400 tproxy localhost connections creating and dieing as fast as the OS can do it.
18:59 < nuba> sounds like fun..                  not.
18:59 < perlmonkey2> hah......more than mere words can express :)
19:01 < nuba> perlmonkey2: you can add something like this to setenv: export PS1="now im setenv'ed - $PS1"
19:02 < perlmonkey2> nuba: I know I have the env correct.  But I manually ran preload.perl and got this: Starting WebGUI 7.5.0
19:02 < perlmonkey2> Can't locate object method "server" via package "Apache2::ServerUtil" at preload.perl line 80.
19:02 < perlmonkey2> is that just because I'm running it manually?
19:02 <+perlDreamer> yeah
19:03 < perlmonkey2> the modperl.conf looks completely normal.  I just wish there was some sort of error output for what is going on.
19:03 < nuba> i suppose you have enabled more verbose logging for apache?
19:04 < perlmonkey2> nope...thanks I'll look up how to do that :)
19:04 < nuba> if not thats a way to troubleshooting
19:04 < nuba> run a single apache instance as well
19:04 < nuba> enable mod_status
19:04 < nuba> let me see..
19:06 < BartJol> hi perldreamer
19:06 < nuba> i have modperl.error.log and modproxy.error.log on /data/wre/prereqs/apache/logs
19:06 <+perlDreamer> Yo, BartJol
19:06 < BartJol> my macro works
19:06 <+perlDreamer> Awesome!
19:06 < nuba> thats 0.7 wWRE
19:06 < BartJol> now I have to extend it, because it works on every reload i believe
19:06 <+perlDreamer> huh?
19:06 < BartJol> that's a bit to much, so, i will incoporate a scratch variable
19:06 < perlmonkey2> nuba: that tree doens't exist in 8.1.  I'll see if I can find where apache is now.
19:07 < BartJol> you mean it is cached?
19:07 < nuba> you can try "find /data/wre -name modperl.error.log"
19:08 <+perlDreamer> If you have admin mode turned on, caching is disabled.
19:08 <+perlDreamer> But then it would transfer karma on every page load
19:08 <+perlDreamer> so a scratch variables could be good.
19:08 < BartJol> yeah, and if the session is longer than the cache time out, it also runs too often
19:09 < BartJol> and 1 more thing, it should not work when the current user is also the owner of an object
19:09 < perlmonkey2> nuba: I ran from wre/ find . -depth|grep .log$ and no appache.error.log showed up.  Only var/logs with modproxy and modperl
19:09 <+perlDreamer> that's pretty easy to detect
19:10 < BartJol> I know
19:10 < BartJol> something like WebGUI::Session->getUserId
19:10 <+perlDreamer> $session->user->userId
19:12 < BartJol> and a new session object, I'm not using that currently
19:12 < BartJol> I'm stupid
19:12 < BartJol> first shift
19:12 < BartJol> always
19:12 <+perlDreamer> every macro gets a session sent to it automatically
19:13 < BartJol> I realise that now
19:16 < BartJol> the last one is already implemented
19:16 < BartJol> scratch variable not yet, but first I'm gonna have dinner\
19:18 < BartJol> maybe tonight if I really don't feel like preparing a presentation on the commerce system
19:18 <+perlDreamer> The commerce system is going to change
19:19 < BartJol> yeah, that's what the presentation is about
19:19 < BartJol> the 44 page pdf is already in my bag
19:21 < BartJol> but I'll be back to annoy you soon :)
19:21  * perlmonkey2 installed all the perl reqs in cent 5.1, I'll see if I can do it in cent 5.0
19:21 <@preaction> BartJol, you're doing the presentation on the new commerce? nice
19:21 < BartJol> you at Arjan's place
19:21 < BartJol> united knowledge
19:22 < BartJol> not at the wuc
19:22 < BartJol> if I come it will be on the use of macro's
19:22 <@preaction> oh
19:22 <@preaction> :p
19:22 < BartJol> maybe I can do 2
19:23 < BartJol> will it be ready?
19:23 < BartJol> :)
19:23 < BartJol> otherwise it is a bit of a roadmap talk
19:24 <@preaction> i think that's why rizen is offline presently, besides the convention he was just at
19:24 <+perlDreamer> Well, I think the new commerce idea of basing all currency on the rupee is wrong.
19:24 <@preaction> WDK and Commerce are his two goals for the next couple months
19:24 <+perlDreamer> It's pretty stable wrt the dollar and the Euro, but still.
19:24 <@preaction> Rupees are the new currency! they're good enough for Link
19:29 < BartJol> well, I'll think about it, first have a look whether I can come at all
19:29 < BartJol> bye
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19:32 <@apeiron> Dangit, I'm doing one on commerce. I refuse to give up my talk on one of the Next Big Things in WebGUI.
19:32 <@apeiron> I didn't want to give up a talk on the nonexistent API of Thingy, do you think I'm going to give up one on Commerce?
19:32 <@preaction> uhm... no?
19:33 <@preaction> i wonder which ones i'm going to have to give up
19:33 <@preaction> i don't want to give up any either
19:33 <@preaction> there's no Thingy API? there's no way to plug-in different kinds of handlers or something?
19:35 <@apeiron> JT said to me in email "There's no pluggable API for thingy".
19:35 <@apeiron> This was after I said I didn't want to give up that talk. :)
19:35 <@preaction> damn...
19:36 <@preaction> who knows, maybe it won't need one
19:36 <@preaction> but technically there's no pluggable API for the Gallery currently. you have to edit the Gallery itself to plug-in a new File type
19:36 <@preaction> i suppose i should start pondering that eventually
20:09 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template
20:09 <+perlDreamer> "there is no spoon"
20:10 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template
20:10 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template
20:10 <+perlDreamer> CIA-21: you've got the squirts
20:16  * perlmonkey2 really wishes WG didn't use Apache::Request2
20:16 <+perlDreamer> what should it use instead?
20:17 < perlmonkey2> something that most linux distros support out of the box instead of requiring a PhD in operating systems to install.
20:17 <@preaction> Apache2::Request is part of mod_perl and libapr
20:17 <+perlDreamer> yeah, yum it
20:17 <+perlDreamer> I haven't needed to compile anything for Fedora for a very long time
20:17 <@preaction> or apt-get, or emerge, whatever your distro does
20:18 <+perlDreamer> well, until the wre
20:18 <+perlDreamer> but the WRE comes with everything except for some of the modules
20:19 <+perlDreamer> perl-libapreq2
20:20 <+perlDreamer> that's from FC6, and it should be the same on RHEL 5/CentOs/SciLinux
20:20 < perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: this is cent
20:20 <+perlDreamer> 4 or 5?
20:21 < perlmonkey2> 5
20:21 < perlmonkey2> I have apr, apr-devel, mod_perl, mod_perl-devel, apache, apache-devel
20:21 < perlmonkey2> it makes, but failes on make test.
20:24 < perlmonkey2> I'm just an idiot....test suites were failing because I was root.
20:27 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template
20:29 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2: Here's someone else's experience with libapreq2 and CentOs 5
20:29 <+perlDreamer> https://webwork.maa.org/moodle/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=5717
20:30 < perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: You see what I said above?  I was running the test suites as root.
20:31 < perlmonkey2> which is a big nono
20:31 < perlmonkey2> my own fault
20:31 < perlmonkey2> but all the libs are built now.  So I can move my wre install to a source install and see if the network issues continue.
20:32 < perlmonkey2> what is funny is the way I'm having to do the mp3 rss feed for the client, it would have worked the same if we had used PB hosting and a 5/month hoster for disk, and about $10/month cheaper.
20:38 <@preaction> pb does offer disk space upgrades. they should be in the store
20:39 < perlmonkey2> They found some hoster that gave 100GB for $7.99/month or some such.
20:39 < perlmonkey2> and most of the VPS's they wanted gave 15GB to 20GB for $30-$40/month.
20:40 < perlmonkey2> I really wish I could offload this project onto PlainBlack :D
20:41 < nuba> perlmonkey2: i just tried some cheapass hosting which gave me 120GB/8.99/mo
20:41 < nuba> where i was dumping my backups
20:42 < nuba> next thing is they block the account a couple of weeks afterwards, saying that it goes against their TOS
20:42 < perlmonkey2> nuba: My plan was an XML::RSS daemon on the cheapass server up the mp3/video to the WG server.
20:42 < perlmonkey2> nuba: yeah, what I was figuring.
20:42 < perlmonkey2> no one gives that much disk away
20:42 < nuba> i somehow talked my way out of that and told them I planned to serve these "machine snapshots" to my friends
20:42 < nuba> in a website
20:42 < perlmonkey2> sucker you in with lies and then it is too painful to leave.
20:43 < nuba> as of yet, its still on, that was a couple of months ago
20:44 < nuba> I told them I was just the sysadmin, and the user was another guy, and that I would forward the warning but "please send me the part of your TOS with the wording that says I cant do that"
20:44 < nuba> i never heard back from them with the wording
20:44 < nuba> checked the TOS myself, found nothing
20:44 < nuba> so all ok until now, of course they can just change the TOS and ruin the party if they want to
20:54 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template
20:55 < perlmonkey2> hah, I think I know what is going on.
20:55 < perlmonkey2> this is classic
20:55 < perlmonkey2> the rss feed on the front page is grabbing an rss producing collab object on another page.  That collab object is now gone.
20:55 < nuba> gremlins?
20:56 < perlmonkey2> but the rss feed is hammering the server trying to get that feed
20:56 < perlmonkey2> that just makes me sad
20:56 < nuba> isnt that a bug?
20:56 < perlmonkey2> a huge one
20:57 < perlmonkey2> that has wasted maybe 24 solid hours of my time I didn't have to waste.
20:57 < nuba> hammering the server until it gets the feed it wants
20:57 < perlmonkey2> I'm not 100% sure that is the problme
20:57 < perlmonkey2> but once I commit the removal of the rss feed, I'll know for sure.
20:57 < perlmonkey2> if I can get to the commit page.
20:58 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2: iirc, Spectre does the RSS prefetch
20:59 <+perlDreamer> so disabling that workflow may immediatly reduce your load
20:59 < perlmonkey2> spectre isn't running ....
20:59 < perlmonkey2> I'll try to commit the changes which remove the rss feed and then disable that workflow
21:01 < perlmonkey2> do workflows do anything when spectre isn't running?
21:01 <+perlDreamer> they shouldn't
21:01 < perlmonkey2> would it be the EMS Precache?
21:02 <@preaction> do you have a Syndicated Content wobject? if there is no RSS prefetch, then the SC asset tries to do i t
21:02 <@preaction> workflows can run without spectre. spectre just tips them off. WebGUI does the real work
21:02 < perlmonkey2> yes
21:03 <+perlDreamer> it's the GetSyndicatedContent Workflow activity that prefetches RSS
21:03 < perlmonkey2> that has to be what is happening.
21:03 < perlmonkey2> and the wobject shows locked and all versions committed.
21:03 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template
21:04 <@preaction> wtf is CIA on a loop or something?
21:04 <@apeiron> I think it's subtly trying to tell us how important that commit is.
21:05 <@preaction> it's not being very subtle about it
21:05 < nuba> well at least its not flooding the channel
21:06 -!- SDuensin_ [n=Scott@130.sub-75-205-112.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI
21:07 <@apeiron> preaction, http://code.google.com/p/cia-vc/issues/detail?id=2
21:07 <@apeiron> Seems other people are seeing this too.
21:07 < perlmonkey2> the explosion only happens when I go to the I have a SC that is locked on the front page.  I'm 99% sure it is the problem.  How do I unlock it?  Spectre is running.
21:08 <@preaction> perlmonkey2, you have to wait for spectre to process the commit
21:09 <@preaction> cia.vc seems to be only partially reachable at the moment. so i don't know if i can even remove the bot
21:09 < nuba> most repeated revisions by CIA bots, from my partial irclogs:
21:09 < nuba> hq% grep -E '< CIA.* \* r.*' \#webgui.200* | awk '{print $7, $5}' | uniq -c | sort -rn | head 6 r5413 graham 6 r5207 jt 3 r5255 doug 3 r5209 jt 2 r5391 doug 2 r5292 jt
21:10 < nuba> oops some linebreaks are missing there
21:10 < nuba> 6 r5413 graham
21:10 < nuba> 6 r5207 jt
21:10  * apeiron would rather the paste be on one line than flood the channel. :)
21:10 < nuba> heh true
21:11 < perlmonkey2> wow
21:11 -!- BartJol [n=plainstu@54-167.surfsnel.dsl.internl.net] has joined #webgui
21:11 < perlmonkey2> so the SC was the problem
21:11 < perlmonkey2> don't ever have an SC pointing at a bad uri....or at least one you own, cause it will DOS yoru machine.
21:12 < nuba> rank of revisions where CIA bots got stuck, NOW ON PASTEBIN! http://webgui.pastebin.com/m26f05bef
21:14 < nuba> graham's r5413 is in a tie with JT's r5207 in the first place
21:15 < nuba> im rooting for graham, hes such a bug fixing whiz!
21:15 < nuba> go graham go
21:16 < nuba> >cause it will DOS yoru machine.
21:16 < nuba> dont forget aobut DOSing someone else's machine
21:19 < perlmonkey2> nuba: well that would have been btter...they could have blocked the requests and let me know I was DOS'ing them.
21:19 < perlmonkey2> instead the machine just died.
21:21 < perlmonkey2> wow, that bug just cost me a lot of money
21:21 < perlmonkey2> suck
21:22 < BartJol> does a scratch variable just have 1 value, that can be altered?
21:22 < BartJol> oh and hi guys
21:22 < BartJol> or can it contain more values?
21:22 <+perlDreamer> you'd have to manually serialize it yourself, BartJol
21:23 < BartJol> serialize?
21:23 <+perlDreamer> transform from multiple values into 1 value (like a string)
21:23 < BartJol> ah
21:24 < BartJol> because I just want to store the visted url's in a session
21:24 < BartJol> so I have to make a variable each time an url is visited?
21:25 <+perlDreamer> Something has to keep track of where the user has been and how long ago
21:25 <+perlDreamer> Kind of sounds like the passive profiling system
21:25 < BartJol> well, the time is not very interesting to me
21:25 <+perlDreamer> is it one time ever?
21:25 <+perlDreamer> only once?
21:25 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@68.sub-75-205-18.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:26 < BartJol> yes, well at least, one per session
21:26 -!- SDuensin_ is now known as SDuensin
21:26 < BartJol> one for always is also possible, but then I have to store it somewhere
21:26 < BartJol> in the db
21:27 < BartJol> that would be a disc consuming business
21:27 <@preaction> session->scratch is cleaned up when the session is cleaned up
21:27 < BartJol> I know, but that is no really objection to me
21:27  * perlDreamer lunches
21:28 < nuba> BartJol: you need to keep track of it in the cookie?
21:28 < BartJol> no, in a session
21:28 < nuba> BartJol: would storing a row with (date, userid, pageurl) in a DB work for you?
21:29 < BartJol> well, only when it's done when my macro is axecuted, not on page loading
21:29 < nuba> you could regularly expire old records
21:29 < nuba> and its simple to do that with a macro
21:30 < BartJol> can it be done within the api?
21:30 < BartJol> I rather not do it by writuing directly into the db
21:31 < BartJol> then I may have to reprogram it for a new version
21:32 < BartJol> you know what my macro is doing?
21:32 < nuba> well I wold create another DB instead of using WebGUI's
21:32 < nuba> and there, create a table
21:32 < nuba> then theres this, i dont know what you want to do with this data
21:32 < BartJol> well
21:33 < nuba> if you use your DB, your table, your SQL queries wont change
21:33 < BartJol> it's an AddKarma macro, to be executed within a template
21:33 < nuba> unless you change your DB schema
21:33 < BartJol> I'll keep it in mind
21:33 < BartJol> thanks
21:33 < nuba> so you wont have to change it every time WebGUI is released
21:33 < nuba> with a change in the DB
21:34 < BartJol> but it should give karma to the owner of an asset when it's visted
21:35 < BartJol> and I want to implement, that it is possible only once per session
21:35 < BartJol> for one asset
21:35 < nuba> so you want the macro to know what asset it is being called from?
21:35 < BartJol> so I'd like to store the url, so it can check whether the asset is already visited
21:36 < BartJol> yes, but that part is already working
21:37 < BartJol> the url (or in the future you can also choose the Id) is given with the macro by a tmpl_var
21:37 < nuba> sounds interesting. would be great if there was a "run on session expire" feature in webgui.
21:38 < nuba> like event handlers
21:38 < BartJol> but maybe I should also build a choice that it is only possible once per asset revision or asset
21:40 < BartJol> but a db creation is quite usefull, especially for the last option
21:40 < BartJol> will be difficult to check revisions
21:42 < BartJol> and i also have to keep the user visitor in mind
21:42 < nuba> you can store the session hash as well
21:42 -!- wgGuest88 [n=wgGuest8@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has joined #webgui
21:43 < nuba> instead of the user. or both.
21:43 < nuba> if tracking users is of relevance
21:43 < wgGuest88> hello
21:43 < BartJol> hi
21:44 < BartJol> well that was why i limiting it to sessions
21:44 < nuba> BartJol: gimme a sec.
21:44 < BartJol> sure
21:44 < BartJol> what's up wgGuest 88?
21:45 < wgGuest88> i have a question related to the sql forms, when i go to a sql form, it shows the search template as default
21:45 < BartJol> yes
21:46 < wgGuest88> can i change it to show to the template that have the fields to add a new record?
21:47 < BartJol> I suppose so
21:47 < wgGuest88> how can i change it?
21:47 < wgGuest88> do you know?
21:48 < BartJol> oh, there is only one opption, but you did create a new template?
21:49 < BartJol> or do you mean the template that is shown while creating the form?
21:49 -!- wgGuest88 [n=wgGuest8@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has quit []
21:49 -!- wgGuest81 [n=wgGuest8@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has joined #webgui
21:49 < wgGuest81> hello
21:50 < wgGuest81> bartJol, now i am wgGuest81
21:50 < BartJol> i suspected already
21:50 < BartJol> did you get the last remark?
21:50 < wgGuest81> i need to put the template that shows the form as a default when someone go to the sql form
21:51 < BartJol> mmm, I should make an sql form myself, to test it
21:51 < wgGuest81> ok
21:54 -!- wgGuest43 [n=wgGuest4@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has joined #webgui
21:54 < nuba> BartJol: i added this line to my site's modproxy apache config file: CustomLog /tmp/BartJol.log "%{wgSession}C %h %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %b"
21:54 < nuba> then head -1 /tmp/BartJol.log
21:54 < nuba> lGtANrQ0lwU2sHC00wBSEw 201.78.30.151 - - [11/Feb/2008:17:24:49 -0200] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 18738
21:54 < wgGuest43> hi
21:54 < nuba> so you could keep track of urls being visited in a session this way too
21:55 < BartJol> and how do I check that from within the macro
21:55 < nuba> write to a log, then process/rotate it with a cron job
21:55 < wgGuest43> i try to run spectre.pl and Displays the following error: 'jsonToObj' will be obsoleted. Please use 'from_json' instead. at /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8/Config/JSON.pm line 134
21:56 < BartJol> mmm sounds possible, but maybe a bit above my knowledge right now
21:56 < wgGuest43> how i can fix this?
21:56 < BartJol> oh joy JSON again
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21:57 < wgGuest25> hi
21:57 < nuba> maybe it should be added to the topic. "jsonToObj errors? update JSON and Config::JSON!"
21:57 <@khenn> the JSON issue will need to be fixed.  It shouldn't cause any problems though
21:58 <@khenn> just make sure you are running WebGUI 7.4.22
21:58 < BartJol> but I will try to help on the sql issue of wgguest 81/88 template thingy
21:58 <@apeiron> Hmm, if memory serves that's a warning not an error, yes? The "'jsonToObj will be obsoleted'"
21:59 < BartJol> with emphasise on try
21:59 < nuba> another good one for the topic: "Something broke? Did you check docs/gotcha.txt?"
21:59 <@khenn> yes , it's a warning
21:59 <@khenn> nothing breaks
22:00 <@khenn> log it as a bug on pb.com if it's not already there
22:00 < wgGuest25> yes a warning
22:00 < wgGuest25> but, i don't see my webpage
22:01 < wgGuest25> i saw in blank
22:01 <@khenn> that's not because of spectre
22:01 <@khenn> that's a different problem
22:01 < wgGuest81> BartJol, if a call a macro in a template and it returns a collections or records, is posible to show a list of this record directly in the template?
22:01 <@khenn> check the the modproxy logs
22:03 < BartJol> wgguest 81, sorry, I have some issues creating another database, I'm a bit of a sql newby
22:04 < wgGuest81> ok
22:05 < BartJol> still trying though, have to learn
22:07 < wgGuest81> hello all
22:07 < metanil> <tmpl_var form.start> will return the form tag with its proper action.. with i found it doesn't have name..  how can i able to give a simple name to this form.. (implicitly in form.start)
22:08 < wgGuest81> if a call a macro in a template and it returns a collections or records, is posible to show a list of this record directly in the template?
22:08 <@preaction> you can't. you could write your own form.start though (in the template)
22:08 < Samus_Aran> preaction: are you around today ?  I could use a bit of help if you are
22:08 <@preaction> wgGuest81, macros are processed after the template is processed. dunno if that answers your question
22:08 <@preaction> Samus_Aran, can't. taking lunch and buying compy parts
22:08  * preaction &
22:10 < metanil> preaction, you mean 'template' i could see 'form.start' in the template itself. there must be some .pm file which drives this.. is it?
22:10 < Samus_Aran> Radix_: or you, as you mentioned using the proxy thing.  I would like to use the WRE with the pre-existing Apache, using a mod_proxy to hand off requests as appropriate
22:10 < Samus_Aran> preaction: no problem.  enjoy
22:10 < wgGuest81> preaction, if a put the macro in the beggining of the template, it will be executed after the template, too?
22:11 < BartJol> yes
22:12 <@khenn> metainl
22:12 <@khenn> :
22:12 <@khenn> copy the html from <tmpl_var form.start>
22:12 <@khenn> then go into the template
22:12 <@khenn> remove <tmpl_var form.start>
22:12 <@khenn> paste in what it was printing out
22:12 <@khenn> and modify as necessary
22:12 <@khenn> don't change the action
22:12 <@khenn> then you can name it whatever you want
22:13 < BartJol> mmm, mysql won't let me create the db and I don't rmember the db admin passwd comination... so I'm afraid I can't help you at the moment wgguest 81
22:13 <@khenn> you don't need to modify the core of WebGUI to make template changes
22:13 < BartJol> have to fix that first
22:13 < Samus_Aran> does anyone else know anything about using the WRE alongside an existing Apache/Perl/MySQL install ?
22:13 < BartJol> and I like to improve my macro, which also eats time
22:14 < Samus_Aran> as the manual install runs in ultra slow motion for me, quite unusable
22:14 <@khenn> I know it can be a pain to install manually.
22:14 < Samus_Aran> or is there simply some way I can test the WRE on an alternate port ?
22:14 <@khenn> but you know that too
22:14 < metanil> khenn, i am thinking of changing WebGUI::Form::formHeader.. .. is it ok?
22:14 < wgGuest81> thanks BartJol
22:14 <@khenn> no
22:14 <@khenn> don't change that
22:15 <@khenn> next upgrade you'll lose your changes
22:15 <@khenn> just replace <tmpl_var form.start> with raw HTML
22:15 < Samus_Aran> I got it installed manually quite well, without any issues I thought, but then it was going in slow motion.  10 to 30 seconds to load any page, on an unused server
22:15 <@khenn> as long as you have the same action, it will be fine
22:15 <@khenn> Samus, it could be a number of things
22:15 < Samus_Aran> so now I want to try the WRE.  almost got the WRE working on the weekend, but couldn't access the site through the proxy
22:16 < metanil> hmm.. thanks khenn.. 
22:16 <@khenn> it could be: the number of child processes in apache
22:16 <@khenn> I believe WebGUI itself uses 3
22:16 < Samus_Aran> I reduced the children, as they were using tons of RAM
22:17 <@khenn> what did you reduce it to?
22:17 < Samus_Aran> it was at 8 or 10 I think, and each was using around 78MiB RAM
22:17 <@khenn> I think I run my dev server at 5
22:17 < Samus_Aran> which seems highly excessive
22:17 < metanil> khenn, what if that template is used by several pages???
22:17 < Samus_Aran> the server is a dual-CPU 1.6Ghz with 1GiB RAM currently
22:18 <@khenn> metanil: what is the action?
22:18 <@khenn> on each of the pages
22:18 <@khenn> is it posting to itself?
22:18 <@khenn> if so, use the page macro as the action
22:18 <@khenn> Samus:  have you checked DNS
22:18 < metanil> its the page which add this template
22:18 <@khenn> we had issues a few weeks back where the server wasn't recognizing DNS
22:18 <@khenn> which was causing every image to load ultra slow
22:18 -!- wgGuest25 [n=wgGuest2@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
22:19 <@khenn> Haarg would know more about the DNS stuff than I would
22:19 < metanil> khenn, like /home/music/genre/form
22:19 <@khenn> I think we had to explicitly put something in /etc/hosts
22:19 < metanil> for this will only work for form page right?
22:19 <@khenn> metanil: I think the page macro should work fine
22:19 <@khenn> I can't remember what it is
22:19 < metanil> ummm.. yaa. that would be great.
22:19 <@khenn> though
22:19 <@khenn> just set the action of the form to the page macro
22:19 < metanil> (why didn't i think about it before)
22:20 < Samus_Aran> khenn: MinSpareServers      2, MaxSpareServers      4, MaxClients           20
22:20 < metanil> khenn,, and macro will return exact page url, right
22:20 < wgGuest81> BartJol, can you help me tomorrow with the sql form?
22:21 < wgGuest81> i am going to test at night and if a get something i will tell you tomorrow
22:21 < BartJol> well other people know more about it
22:21 < wgGuest81> Who?
22:22 < Samus_Aran> khenn: and I added a MaxRequestsPerChild  300, as I was concerned about a memory leak such as was present with spectre (using 350MiB RAM after 2 days)
22:22 < BartJol> but tomorrow I'm only available til 6 pm cet
22:22 < wgGuest81> ok
22:22 < BartJol> well, I suspect everyone :)
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22:23 <@khenn> metanil: the macro will return the page it's on
22:23 <@khenn> so that actually might not work
22:23 < Samus_Aran> khenn: my Apache threads normally use 4.3MiB RAM, and with WebGUI that goes up to around 78MiB each.  it seems that WebGUI does not play well in a shared environment
22:23 <@khenn> unless the asset itself is the page
22:24 <@khenn> if that's the case, it'll work great
22:24 <@khenn> if the asset is on a page
22:24 < BartJol> wgGuest81, dapperedodo and Mr Hairgrease know a lot about it, but are on holidays right now
22:24 <@khenn> then the post will not work correctly when on the page
22:24 < Samus_Aran> as there are other web sites, which will now use tons of RAM even serving simple HTML pages
22:24 < metanil> hmm.. ya.. i think so..
22:24 < BartJol> but they have a site
22:25 <@khenn> Samus:  here's what I would recommend doing
22:25 < perlmonkey2> is there anyway to have cgi-bin be a functional scriptalias passthru?  I can't seem to make it work.
22:25 <@khenn> download the latest WRE and install it on a test box (or virtual machine)
22:26 <@khenn> then look at how we've configured apache / mod perl / etc
22:26 < BartJol> sorry wgGuest81, I was mistaken, it was on the sqlreport and in dutch.. which might cause some trouble
22:26 < BartJol> but it is www.sqlreport.org
22:26 <@khenn> I run on the WRE 0.81 on a P3 550 with only 512 megs of ram
22:26 <@khenn> and it's actually pretty fast
22:27 <@khenn> so it's definitely something with your configuration
22:27 <@khenn> oh I'm running on Centos
22:27 <@khenn> I also have a dev box on my mac
22:27 <@khenn> but that's a different story
22:28 <@khenn> perlmonkey2:  you need to set up a rewrite rule in apache
22:28 < perlmonkey2> khenn: okay, thanks :)
22:28 < Samus_Aran> khenn: how much RAM do your Apache threads use each ?  mine are 60 to 70MiB each as soon as WebGUI is enabled
22:29 <@khenn> on my P3, I get up to 380 megs used at times
22:29 < Samus_Aran> (with a manual install)
22:29 <@khenn> I've never had the box crash
22:29 <@khenn> and I've never had it run ultra slow
22:29 <@khenn> but again, I'm not using a manual install
22:29 <@khenn> so I'm guessing it's a config / fine tuning issue
22:30 < Samus_Aran> but how much do individual threads of Apache use ?  I want to know if my manual install is completely borked, or if it's normal to use that much
22:30 <@khenn> I don't know how much each individual thread of Apache uses
22:30 <@khenn> I'm not even sure how I would find that out.
22:31 <@khenn> all I can see is how much total ram is being used by Apache
22:31 <@khenn> all I know how to see anyway
22:32 <@khenn> unfortunately we are pretty much at the limit of what I know how to troubleshoot
22:34 < Samus_Aran> if you wanted to see RAM used, this command will do it: \ps ww -e -o rss,args | grep httpd | grep -v grep
22:34 < Samus_Aran> it will display kilobytes of RAM for each Apache thread
22:34 < Samus_Aran> for some unknown reason, when I started up the WebGUI running from the manual install, it is fast
22:35 < Samus_Aran> there is now the /WRE in /data.  perhaps it is using something from in there, even though it shouldn't.  I'm not sure
22:35 <@khenn> i'll check my dev box
22:35 < Samus_Aran> the WRE isn't being used currently
22:35 < Samus_Aran> but pages are loading <1 second
22:35 < Samus_Aran> weird
22:35 <@khenn> hmm
22:36 <@khenn> yeah I'm not sure
22:36 < Samus_Aran> it was a minimum of 5-8 seconds when I was working on it Thursday
22:36 < Samus_Aran> and often 30
22:36 <@khenn> sounds like something you did along the way fixed the problem
22:36 < Samus_Aran> and since then I have not touched my manual install, I just moved it and put it back today
22:36 < Samus_Aran> oh well.  if it's working, it's working
22:36 < Samus_Aran> [until it decides to stop working again, hehe]
22:38 < Samus_Aran> it is perfectly fine now, nice and fast
22:38 <@khenn> I ran that command
22:39 <@khenn> each apache thread is using < 75k
22:39 <@khenn> er < 65k
22:39 <@khenn> er > 65k
22:39 <@khenn> heh
22:39 <@khenn> less than
22:39 < Samus_Aran> I think I will test if it is using some component of the WRE I installed in /data.  I will stop apache, rename /data and then try again
22:39 <@khenn> I take it you have WebGUI installed somewhere besides /data
22:40 <@khenn> ie: /data/WebGUI/lib
22:40 <@khenn> otherwise you might just want to rename /data/wre
22:42 < Samus_Aran> I have my manual install in /var/www/WebGUI and my domain at /var/www/foo.com
22:42 < Samus_Aran> okay, renamed the old /data and restarted ... lemme see if it is slow now
22:42 < Samus_Aran> made no difference.  still nice and fast
22:43 < Samus_Aran> I guess I can remove the WRE now and get on with developing the web site
22:43 <@khenn> well, it's a mystery but it's solved
22:43 < Samus_Aran> phew !
22:43 < Samus_Aran> thanks for your help, khenn and preaction and Radix_ 
22:43 <@khenn> sure thing
22:43 < Samus_Aran> I haven't used WebGUI since v4.x, it has changed a lot.  I find it more confusing now
22:44 < Samus_Aran> but I will try to figure it out
22:44 <@khenn> it's 1000 times the size
22:44 <@khenn> wow WebGUI 4 eh?
22:44 <@khenn> that's a long time ago
22:45 <@khenn> Having used both versions, I can honestly say version 7 is much better
22:45 <@khenn> especially from a developers standpoint
22:45 <@khenn> it's a lot more customizeable
22:45 < Samus_Aran> I find the UI more confusing, however I see a huge number of new features
22:45 < Samus_Aran> and I like features =)
22:46 <@khenn> you think the UI is more confusing?
22:46 < wgGuest24> i have webgui 7.4.18 and don't see my page
22:46 <@khenn> I thought it was much worse when all of the admin stuff was right in the middle of your page
22:46 <@khenn> what do you mean you don't see your page?
22:46 < Samus_Aran> khenn: for example adding a section to a page.  it used to be intuitive, now I'm not even sure how to do it
22:46 < wgGuest24> and in the webgui.log i found this error:  ERROR - spectre.conf - POE::Kernel::_dispatch_event[1012] - ADMIN: Couldn't connect to WebGUI site
22:47 < wgGuest24> what i must do?
22:47 <@khenn> sounds like a configuration problem
22:47 <@khenn> my guess is you have the IP address or port misconfigured
22:47 <@khenn> for spectre
22:47 < Samus_Aran> khenn: e.g. a new column or a paragraph of text.  in 4.x it was very clear what to do, now all I see is "pages".  preaction said that all the sections are pages now, which seems kind of strange
22:48 < wgGuest24> i do a copy of spectre.conf.original 
22:48 < wgGuest24> and don't modified
22:48 <@khenn> the problem is likely in your webgui config file
22:48 <@khenn> do a search for spectre in there
22:49 <@khenn> Samus:  anything in WebGUI can be a page these days
22:49 <@khenn> for instance
22:49 <@khenn> if you wanted to create a page that only had one article on it
22:49 <@khenn> you could simply add the article as a child of home or something else
22:49 <@khenn> expose it to the navigation
22:50 <@khenn> and presto, it's a page
22:50 <@khenn> the only time you really need to use "Pages" per say, is when you want to display more than one  "thing" on a "page"
22:50 <@khenn> I guess that can be a bit confusing
22:51 < Samus_Aran> in WebGUI 4.x, there would often be dozens of items on the page
22:52 < Samus_Aran> each section was self-contained, so you could cut/paste it somewhere else, or move it to a new column, etc.
22:52 < Samus_Aran> I'm not sure how to do that type of management in 7.x
22:53 <@khenn> it's drag and drop now
22:53 <@khenn> add a page layout
22:53 <@khenn> then you can start adding things to that page layout
22:53 <@khenn> those things become children of the page layout
22:53 <@khenn> and you can drag and drop them or move them about via the asset manager
22:54 <@khenn> actually, we have published an entire book on managing content in WebGUI
22:54 <@khenn> https://www.plainblack.com/store/services/books2/webgui-content-managers-guide
22:55 <@khenn> there is a great deal of content in there
22:55 <@khenn> about using pretty much everything in WebGUI
22:55 <@khenn> (in terms of content)
22:55 <@khenn> I gotta run.  BBL
22:55 -!- khenn is now known as khenn_afk
22:55 < wgGuest24> my spectre.conf looks good
22:56 < wgGuest24> i don't know that do?
23:04 < perlmonkey2> With the $15/month PB hoster, there is no way to run custom macros?
23:06 < wgGuest24> que debo hacer??
23:09 < nuba> pregunta y espera
23:10 < nuba> en el entremedio, puedes leer al wiki o a los foruns
23:10 < nuba> lo mejor es que pregunte en inglés
23:11 < nuba> your questions will reach more people this way
23:13 < BartJol> well the session logging seems to work reasonly
23:13 < BartJol> and the owner does not get karma anymore
23:14 < BartJol> but the session logging does not always work great
23:14 < wgGuest24> ya pregunte en ingles y nada
23:14 < wgGuest24> they tell me that my spectre.conf is wrong, but this it's good
23:16 < nuba> wgGuest24: can you handle yourself with a shell?
23:16 < BartJol> but maybe it is just caching
23:16 < nuba> wgGuest24: fire a shell, go to /data/wre/sbin, type '. ./setenvironment' without the quotes
23:17 < nuba> that will set your environment properly
23:17 < nuba> then go to /data/WebGUI/sbin and run 'perl spectre.pl --test'
23:18 < nuba> if you see 'Tests completed.' and no error, your spectre is ok
23:18 < nuba> otherwise it'll spit some error for you
23:18 < wgGuest24> i dn't have wre i have the source
23:18 < nuba> which you should use as your starting point
23:18 < nuba> whoops
23:19 < nuba> its been a while since I used to run webgui without the WRE, not sure I can help you then
23:20 < nuba> anyway, try 'perl spectre.pl --test from wherever it is your WebGUI/sbin is located now
23:20 < wgGuest24> ok
23:20 < wgGuest24> 'jsonToObj' will be obsoleted. Please use 'from_json' instead. at /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8/Config/JSON.pm line 134
23:21 < nuba> perlbot: life with cpan
23:21 < perlbot> Information pertaining to the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN) can be found at http://sial.org/howto/perl/life-with-cpan/
23:21 < wgGuest24> couldn't connect www.ejemplo.com
23:23 < nuba> did you add the proper DNS entries for your www.ejemplo.com site?
23:23 < nuba> or added it to /etc/hosts
23:23 < nuba> ?
23:23 < wgGuest24> yes
23:23 < wgGuest24> and restart apache2
23:23 < nuba> if you type 'host www.ejemplo.com', is it pointing to your machine's IP or some IP apache would be listening at?
23:24 < wgGuest24> yes, my ip, because it's local
23:24 < nuba> what is your webgui release again?
23:24 < wgGuest24> 7.4.18
23:25 < nuba> is this a fresh install ? any reason for not using the latest stable?
23:25 < nuba> actually, any reason for not using the wre?
23:26 < wgGuest24> i have this before, and reinstall my ubuntu and now is install webgui
23:27 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2: you can't run any custom perl code on PB's hosting, unless you get your own server.
23:27 < Samus_Aran> wgGuest24: if it is local, do you have a DNS server or is it in your hosts file ?
23:28 < nuba> you know you could use the wre, install webgui 7.4.18 on it, add a site with the same name of what you had before, then replace the database for the one you had, and place the uploads under /data/domains/www.ejemplo.com/public, and live happly ever after, dont you?
23:29 < nuba> by using the WRE it will be easier for you to get help from the community
23:30 < nuba> ie. in my case I dont really remember a lot of configuring/troubleshooting a lone webgui install, no WRE
23:31 < BartJol> perlDreamer, you mentioned a time ago something about wrting tests
23:31 <+perlDreamer> yeah man
23:31 <+perlDreamer> ready to learn?
23:31 < BartJol> I feel I get in the stage that that might get usefull
23:31 <+perlDreamer> okay, let me throw some resources your way
23:31 < BartJol> ah, that would be nice
23:32 < BartJol> need my mail?
23:32 <+perlDreamer> 1) Get a copy of my Testing Tutorial from WUC 2006.  Koen, Joeri, Martin should all have copies
23:32 <+perlDreamer> 2) perldoc Test::Tutorial
23:32 <+perlDreamer> 3) perldoc Test::More
23:32 <+perlDreamer> if you can't get a copy of my WUC talk, let me know and I'll email you one
23:33 < BartJol> ok, Ill check that tomorrow
23:33 < perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: that's what I remembered, but I wanted to make sure.  Thanks
23:34 <+perlDreamer> and from what I see on their site, $15 hosting is now $20 hosting
23:34 <+perlDreamer> So good job for purchasing early :)
23:35 <+perlDreamer> BartJol: In the meantime, have a look at the tests in /data/WebGUI/t/Macro for ideas and stuff to borrow.
23:35 < BartJol> but it seems to run quite ok right now, but it really needs testing
23:36 <+perlDreamer> with automated tests, no more loading, and reloading, and so on.
23:36 <+perlDreamer> You set it up once, and keep using it.
23:37 < BartJol> but you can do tests what happens on a reload?
23:37 <+perlDreamer> Sure.  Reload is the second time the user accesses the macro.
23:37 < BartJol> check
23:38 < BartJol> right now I already feel a bit proud that I came this far
23:38 < perlmonkey2> what ever happened to crythias?
23:38 <+perlDreamer> You should, man!  You've worked hard and done well.
23:39 < BartJol> it takes some initialisation time, but after that it goes quite ok
23:39 < BartJol> easier to fix mistakes and stuff
23:42 < Samus_Aran> does anyone have any idea why the site search might not work ?
23:42 < wgGuest24> yes i have /data/domain/ejemplo.com/www/public
23:42 < Samus_Aran> I don't get any errors, just no results.  it puts me on the search page again
23:43 < Samus_Aran> hm.  apparently if you use ^c; for the company name, it won't find it when you type part of the name
23:43 < Samus_Aran> I tried some other words and they were found
23:43 < BartJol> ah, yes I heard that it is a bit sensitive sometimes
23:43 <+perlDreamer> Samus_Aran: I _think_ you have to run the site indexer manually when you start the site.
23:43 < Samus_Aran> actually, that isn't the issue.  hm
23:44 < Samus_Aran> it seems to be ignoring my Contact form text
23:44 < Samus_Aran> perlDreamer: I will look into that
23:44 < Samus_Aran> it finds the page names, but not text on the page
23:48 < BartJol> but I'm gonna relax now and test later
23:51 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@130.sub-75-205-112.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:57 <+perlDreamer> I think the SpectreCheck macro needs to use the most maligned HTML tag of all time.
23:57 < Samus_Aran> Does anyone know how I can make the news post immediately ?  it is set to "Commit without approval"
23:57 < Samus_Aran> I thought <blink> was the most maligned
23:58 <+perlDreamer> Yup.  If spectre is broken, then I want it to be very visible.
23:58 <+perlDreamer> Samus_Aran: This is a guess, but try the sitewide settings for autocommit and autoapprove.  They should make that intermediate page go away.
23:59 <+perlDreamer> But they will apply to ALL asset commits, not just the News
23:59 -!- cap10morgan [n=cap10mor@h19-afsc.ded.indra.com] has joined #webgui
23:59 < BartJol> can't you call the macro with tehe rolling eyes of jt?
23:59 < BartJol> xeyes evaluated
--- Day changed Tue Feb 12 2008
00:00 < cap10morgan> What are common causes of this error when trying to exec a workflow instance: "Couldn't execute operation ... Root cause: can't build entity: no body, and not multipart"?
00:00 < BartJol> oh, sorry, it was an acme, and then it would be usefull
00:00 -!- wgGuest24 [n=wgGuest2@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
00:00 < Samus_Aran> perlDreamer: it is a small site, I don't think we will need much of a workflow.  realtime is alright
00:00 <+perlDreamer> cap10morgan: That's a new one on us.
00:01 < cap10morgan> perlDreamer: great! :)
00:01 <+perlDreamer> wanna nopaste some log file output?
00:01 < cap10morgan> that's all of it
00:01 < cap10morgan> w/o turning up the logging level
00:01 <+perlDreamer> webgui.log or error.log?
00:01 < cap10morgan> which i may have to do here shortly...
00:02 < cap10morgan> webgui.log
00:02 <+perlDreamer> check the error.log
00:02 <+perlDreamer> that's not a WebGUI error
00:03 < cap10morgan> hmm, the error.log says nothing when i generate that error
00:03 < cap10morgan> but it does have tons of Apache2::SizeLimit messages
00:03 < cap10morgan> over and over
00:03 < cap10morgan> it's killing processes left and right
00:03 < cap10morgan> hmm...
00:03 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5414 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Macro/_macro.skeleton: added POD to the macro skeleton
00:04 < Samus_Aran> perlDreamer: I really do not understand the versioning used in 7.x
00:04 < Samus_Aran> perlDreamer: I went and clicked on "commit my changes" and it reverted all the work I did
00:05 <+perlDreamer> is Spectre running and configured properly?
00:05 < Samus_Aran> perlDreamer: at this point I am unsure what is going on =/
00:05 < Samus_Aran> running, yes.  configured properly, I don't know
00:05 < Samus_Aran> I did a manual install via the instructions on the web site
00:06 <+perlDreamer> head over to the WebGUI sbin directory and do a perl spectre.pl --test
00:07 < Samus_Aran> ERROR: Spectre cannot communicate with WebGUI. Perhaps you need to adjust the spectreSubnets setting in this config file: <domain>.conf
00:07 <+perlDreamer> well, there you go
00:07 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI can't talk to spectre to commit your assets, so they're locked
00:08 <+perlDreamer> while they're locked, the site doesn't display them
00:08 < Samus_Aran> when I clicked commit, it lcoked them
00:08 < Samus_Aran> *locked
00:08 <+perlDreamer> yup
00:08 < Samus_Aran> okay, going to look
00:08 < Samus_Aran> oh I know what's going on
00:09 < Samus_Aran> or not.
00:09 < Samus_Aran> (I thought it was an incorrect password)
00:09 <+perlDreamer> Samus_Aran: If you've found any of our help useful today, you can help us by making a wiki page with what you've learned today.
00:11 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has quit ["Windows doesn't have users, it has hostages."]
00:12 < Samus_Aran> "spectreSubnets" : [ "127.0.0.1/32" ],  "spectreIp" : "127.0.0.1",  "spectrePort" : 32323,
00:12 < Samus_Aran> that is normal, is it not ?
00:13 <+perlDreamer> looks okay, but then again, I'm not all that familiar with Spectre.
00:13 <+perlDreamer> what's in spectre.conf?
00:14 < BartJol> what happens when you change the ip to the real ip?
00:14 < Samus_Aran> "ip" : "127.0.0.1",  "port" : 32323,  "maxWorkers" : 3,  "webguiPort" : 80,  
00:14 < BartJol> and I've seen other subnets than 32
00:15 < BartJol> I got it working once by changing it to 16 or 24 I believe
00:16 < Samus_Aran> oh my gosh:
00:16 < Samus_Aran> -rw-r--r-- 1 www-data root 246M 2008-02-11 14:15 /var/log/webgui.log
00:16 < Samus_Aran> that is a large log file, considering I have done almost nothing on WebGUI so far
00:16 < Samus_Aran> heh
00:18 < Samus_Aran> hm
00:18 < Samus_Aran> I see this in the log file:
00:18 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5414 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Macro/_macro.skeleton: added POD to the macro skeleton
00:18 < Samus_Aran> main::[[undef]] - Visitor (1) connecting from <external_ip> attempted to make a Spectre workflow runner request, but we're on ly allowed to accept requests from 127.0.0.1/32.
00:18 < Samus_Aran> that appears a lot
00:19 < Samus_Aran> so presumably the router is giving my connection the external IP
00:19 < Samus_Aran> even though both this computer and the server are on the same LAN
00:19 < Samus_Aran> though I thought it was just the webgui process that would connect to it, in which case the IP shouldn't matter
00:20 < Samus_Aran> as it never leaves localhost
00:20 < Samus_Aran> I'm not entirely clear on this whole webgui/spectre communication thing
00:22 < Samus_Aran> this error appears a lot: "Couldn't get UI level of WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WeatherData. Root cause: Can't locate object method "getUiLevel""
00:22 < Samus_Aran> via package "WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WeatherData" at /var/www/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm line 696.
00:24 < BartJol> Samus_Aran, the subnet was changed to 16
00:24 -!- wgGuest81 [n=wgGuest8@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has quit []
00:30 < metanil> Can i have "File submitted by", "File submitted at (time)", "File last accessed by" beside "description" and "last updated" field in the File asset.??
00:31 < BartJol> well you can, if the template variables exist
00:31 <@preaction> not last accessed (unless that means last changed). submitted by is probably easy (<tmpl_var ownerUserId>)
00:32 <@preaction> but you'll need to get the username out of that. probably with a macro. dunno if any macros built-in will do it
00:34 < Samus_Aran> preaction: could you help me figure out why spectre can't communicate with my manually installed webgui ?  it is running very fast now, by the way
00:34 < Samus_Aran> not sure why, but I'm not complaining
00:35 <@preaction> i would bet that spectre is for some reason binding on the external IP. or if your /etc/hosts has yourdomain.com pointing to that external IP, it might show up like that. your best bet would be to do what the error message from spectre.pl --test said, and put your external IP in spectreSubnets
00:37 < Samus_Aran> I just got a new error, when restarting apache and spectre
00:39 < Samus_Aran> actually that error seems to only be because I had stopped apache and then loaded spectre first
00:39 < Samus_Aran> afk brb
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00:58 < Samus_Aran> everything seems to be working now.  added the external IP as a subnet to Spectre
00:59 < Samus_Aran> not sure why Spectre is even looking at the external IP when it's on the same computer as WebGUI
00:59 < Samus_Aran> all my changes reappeared
00:59 <+perlDreamer> Spectre processed the version workflow
01:00 < nuba> i think it would be good if every wiki update would appear here with the wikipage title, and the webgui.org nickname of the person who did the change
01:00 <+perlDreamer> nuba: PB's contract with their provider says "NO IRC"
01:00 <+perlDreamer> You'd have to screen scrape it.
01:01 < nuba> like "Wiki: WebGUI Search System edited by knowmad"
01:01 < nuba> "Wiki: Subscriptions, Manage added by knowmad"
01:02 < Samus_Aran> can the wiki provide a dump of the most recent 50 posts, in xml or csv ?  that would be simple enough to check once per 5 minutes or similar
01:02 < nuba> theres http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki?func=recentChanges
01:02 < nuba> i can whip that up with irssi
01:03 < nuba> perlDreamer: if they can run a irc client from their servers, they can have a irc bot
01:03 < nuba> but maybe even that they cannot do
01:03 <+perlDreamer> it isn't on their servers, it runs locally on the web client in Java
01:04 <+perlDreamer> I've been hounding JT about this for two years.
01:04 <+perlDreamer> He's very adamant about the contract.
01:04 < nuba> it happens that irc client, some bots, and a private ircd (for work), well, thats exactly what I do from my dedacated server :)
01:05 < Samus_Aran> you could also set up an SSH tunnel from the server
01:05 < nuba> never had any issue with the providers. but then my ircd is wrapped with SSL, with a password to connect to the ircd too
01:06 < nuba> and this is a very very low traffic machine
01:09 <@preaction> nuba, if you're willing, JT has said he will accept me building an interface (a la JSON or XML or somesuch) to the data that your bot could use
01:10 <@preaction> of course, one of the features i want to see in the wiki is the ability to subscribe to a wikipage
01:11 <@preaction> which would fulfill the same purpose really
01:11 < nuba> the wiki having a RSS feed would be good enough
01:11 < nuba> does it?
01:11 < nuba> otherwise im scraping it
01:12 < nuba> it would make a lot of sense for me this of people subscribing to a RSS feed of recent changes in a wiki
01:12 < Samus_Aran> nuba: if they can modify the wiki to dump in csv or xml, it will save the server from sending more data than it needs (a whole HTML page)
01:13 < cap10morgan> hmm, a bunch of my modperl instances are segfaulting
01:13 < cap10morgan> any clever tricks to debug why that's happening?
01:13 < cap10morgan> i should say, modperl processes
01:13 < nuba> ktrace?
01:13 < nuba> and kdump?
01:13 < nuba> you can have hours of fun with that
01:14 <+perlDreamer> PB people: When is the rizenator back?
01:14 < nuba> for some offbeat definition of fun, of course
01:14 <@preaction> nuba, i can build a shortcut to the wiki that will give you whatever you want in whatever serialization you want, JSON, XML, or otherwise. (i'd prefer JSON, more possibilities)
01:14 < cap10morgan> nuba: hmm, googling, thanks for the suggestion
01:15 < cap10morgan> nuba: does ktrace work on linux?
01:15 <+perlDreamer> http://www.presicient.com/langjobs/usajobs.html
01:15 < cap10morgan> looks like a bsd thing
01:15 < nuba> cap10morgan: if you launch a single instance of apache, enable ktrace, and reproduce the error, skip to about the end of your dump and its probably around there
01:16 < nuba> thats what I sometimes do on freebsd, dunno what you'd use in linux
01:16 < cap10morgan> ah, ok
01:16 < cap10morgan> i guess that would be strace
01:17 <@preaction> Debugging and profiling mod_perl applications: http://www.perl.com/lpt/a/974
01:20 < nuba> Samus_Aran: for a 18566 bytes html, its ~66MB/day plus some little overhead to retrieve /community-wiki?func=recentChanges every minute and scrap it
01:21 < nuba> preaction: if I can ask, I'd first ask that the wiki outputs RSS so that besides scrapping I can subscribe to it
01:21 <+perlDreamer> yeah!
01:21 <+perlDreamer> RSS
01:21 < nuba> or any webgui wiki
01:21 <@preaction> i could write something to do that, yes
01:22 <@preaction> give me until tomorrow
01:22 < nuba> afterwards looking for other formats like JSON would be ok, but the RSS is the thing I think most people wouldbenefit from
01:22 < nuba> preaction: can plainblack live with 66Mb/day for a few days?
01:22 <@preaction> what do you mean?
01:23 < nuba> if yes im getting this bot to scrap the page and post new updates here today
01:23 <+perlDreamer> one WebGUI download / day from PB is bigger than that, nuba
01:23 <@preaction> yes, but the download doesn't go through webgui
01:23 < nuba> i knkow, but since Samus_Aran brought the worry about MB/day up..
01:23 < metanil> is there any method available in webgui core that will return username from userid (as parameter)???
01:24 <+perlDreamer> metanil: not yet :)
01:24 <@preaction> metanil, print WebGUI::User->new( $session, $userId )->username;
01:24 <+perlDreamer> Sounds like a good RFE
01:25 < metanil> hmm..
01:25 < metanil> ok i'll write my own.
01:29 <+perlDreamer> preaction: How about some golfing :)
01:30 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI::User->new(@_)->username;
01:30 <@preaction> touche
01:30 <+perlDreamer> but it leaves you open to user creation attacks
01:33 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5415 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (i18n/English/Macro_SpectreCheck.pm Macro/SpectreCheck.pm): adding the SpectreCheck Macro, per the RFE
01:34 <@preaction> what does the SpectreCheck macro do?
01:34 <+perlDreamer> It says whether or not a connection could be made to Spectre
01:35 <@preaction> i suppose that could be useful
01:36 <+perlDreamer> I think it would be more useful displayed in the AdminBar.
01:36 <+perlDreamer> What do you think?
01:36 <@preaction> didn't that RFE say something about displaying it during a commit?
01:36 <+perlDreamer> it's 3-fold
01:36 <+perlDreamer> 1) When committing
01:37 <+perlDreamer> 2) When auto-committing (which is TBD)
01:37 <+perlDreamer> 3) Macro for displaying status
01:42 < cap10morgan> hmm, yeah, strace indicates that i'm sometimes getting segfaults something is retrieved from the db cache
01:42 < cap10morgan> clearing the cache and restarting doesn't help
01:42 < cap10morgan> but switching to file cache does
01:43 < nuba> nice
01:43 < cap10morgan> yep, "select content from cache..." precedes the segfault every time
01:44 <@preaction> weirdness
01:44 < cap10morgan> that seems bad overall
01:44 <@preaction> what does myisamchk say about the cache table?
01:44 < cap10morgan> it's in a bunch of different sites' databases
01:45 < cap10morgan> i mean, i could check anyway, but seems unlikely they're all affected
01:47 < cap10morgan> says 1 client is using or hasn't closed properly
01:47 < cap10morgan> and usable but should be fixed
01:47 < cap10morgan> on 2 sites that exhibit the problem
01:48 < Samus_Aran> How can I check why my contact form is not sending an e-mail to the To and Cc addresses ?
01:49 <+perlDreamer> Samus_Aran: Either a mail server or a spectre problem
01:49 < Samus_Aran> it only saves the data on the page
01:49 < Samus_Aran> perlDreamer: does it use sendmail to send it, or Perl directly, or what ?
01:49 <+perlDreamer> It uses what you told it to in the site Settings
01:49 < Samus_Aran> is there a log file that would show an error ?
01:49 <+perlDreamer> yes
01:49 <+perlDreamer> webgui.log
01:49 < Samus_Aran> okay, will look for site settings
01:50 <+perlDreamer> although, if spectre isn't running, then the workflow to send the emails won't run either
01:52 < Samus_Aran> Spectre is fine now
01:52 < Samus_Aran> after adding the external IP
01:53 < Samus_Aran> I see in Settings under the Messaging tab "SMTP Server" set to "localhost".  it doesn't have options for port numbers or authentication
01:53 < Samus_Aran> I guess I will have to set up a localhost mail server to relay
01:54 < Samus_Aran> I don't think the server has one currently
01:54 <+perlDreamer> i'd bet you can type anything you want in there
01:54  * cap10morgan is disabling Database cache on all his sites
01:54 < Samus_Aran> the mail server we use here requires user/pass authentication and a non-standard port
01:54  * nuba sent a mail asking for the admin of http://chl.be/mascots/ to add gooey there
01:55 < nuba> and now meet ..
01:55 -!- GoeyOfSteel [n=puppetma@hq.imaterial.org] has joined #webgui
01:55 < Samus_Aran> gooey meat.
01:55 < nuba> this is another irssi in my box, which will be my bot
01:55 -!- GoeyOfSteel is now known as GooeyOfSteel
01:55 < nuba> better now
01:56 < nuba> instead of the defunct project2501, which somehow wasnt very popular here
01:57 < nuba> GooeyOfSteel: hello
01:57 <@apeiron> Your puppet master seems the taciturn sort.
01:58 < nuba> i added eliza to it once, let me check..
01:58 < nuba> he was very talkative by then...
01:58 <@apeiron> Or she. :o
01:58 < nuba> the idea was to somehow extract more info from people coming here asking for help
01:59 < nuba> to make troubleshooting easier, after the people had already been milked out of information about their issues :)
02:00 < nuba> it didnt worked as I thought it could, it was a good idea for a startup, unfortunately i forgot to add buzzwords like web2.0 and AJAX to help sell the idea, you know?..
02:01 <@apeiron> nuba, Depending upon the strategy you want to take with it (active vs passive seeding), you may want to take a look at the infobot code.
02:02 <+perlDreamer> Samus_Aran: I'm guessing all that can be specified, but I have no idea how to do it.
02:04 <@preaction> perlDreamer, Samus_Aran: no. it's not. it would be a relatively painless RFE though
02:05 < Samus_Aran> okay
02:05 < Samus_Aran> thank you both
02:05 < Samus_Aran> infobot is nice
02:05 < Samus_Aran> once it gets a large database, that is
02:05 <+perlDreamer> Samus_Aran: submit the RFE, wait for it to be approved, then dump a little karma into it
02:06 < Samus_Aran> is there some way to sort the menu items (flexmenu) ?
02:06 < Samus_Aran> also, where are the descriptions used, when you create a page ?
02:07 < Samus_Aran> in the sitemap, or search or what ?
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02:09 <@preaction> it's available to the template, so most anywhere. it's indexed too, so search yes
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02:12 < GooeyOfSteel> GooeyOfSteel: breathe!
02:12 < nuba> oops
02:12 < nuba> GooeyOfSteel: breathe!
02:13 < GooeyOfSteel> nuba: Please go on.
02:13 < nuba> there is eliza again.. now onto the wiki update things...
02:13  * apeiron hands nuba the +5 mace of recalcitrant bot subdoing.
02:13 <@apeiron> er, subduing
02:14 <+perlDreamer> oh no, I think subdoing is much more appropriate for a bot
02:15 < GooeyOfSteel> perlDreamer: Why?
02:15 < metanil> to make a new template variable available in the template, where should i add it? like $var{newtemplatevar} = "val"; .. where should i do this?
02:15 <+perlDreamer> bots are subs doing stuff
02:16 < nuba> perlDreamer: you must prefix your phrases with 'GooeyOfSteel: '
02:16 <@apeiron> nuba, I have an RFE for your bot!
02:16 < nuba> in case you want to talk with GooeyOfSteel...
02:16 <+perlDreamer> GooeyOfSteel: bots are subs doing stuff
02:16 < GooeyOfSteel> perlDreamer: Did you think they might not be subs doing stuff?
02:16 <+perlDreamer> GooeyOfSteel: That is the core concern of any programmer, but you already knew that
02:17 < GooeyOfSteel> perlDreamer: Oh, I already knew that?
02:17 <+perlDreamer> GooeyOfSteel: Of course.  Aren't you self-aware?
02:17 < GooeyOfSteel> perlDreamer: Oh, I self-aware?
02:18 <@apeiron> s/GooeyOfSteel/GumbyBRAIN/g
02:20 <+perlDreamer> indeed
02:20 <@apeiron> perlDreamer, You've met Gumby?
02:21 <+perlDreamer> Like the bendy green guy?
02:21 <@apeiron> Not quite.
02:21 < Samus_Aran> what was Gumby's horse's name ?
02:22 <+perlDreamer> Pokie?
02:22 < Samus_Aran> yes.
02:23 < Samus_Aran> can someone remind me what the item is called that is used for News ?  I accidentally got it removed (I cut it to paste somewhere else, then restarted WebGUI and it went poof)
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02:27 < Samus_Aran> I just realised that I only want one set of data, for both the events calendar and the news items, as there is overlap
02:27 < Samus_Aran> not sure how I could do that, though
02:28 <+perlDreamer> pull RSS/Ical from the Events Calendar as you news feed?
02:28 < Samus_Aran> basically one view of the data in month view, and another view of the data in most recent
02:29 < Samus_Aran> I mean, a plain list
02:29 <+perlDreamer> The calendar doesn't do a list view yet.
02:30 < Samus_Aran> if I tell it to export an RSS, can I get a item-by-item listing from that using another plugin ?
02:31  * perlDreamer decides to double check whether the calendar supports RSS before answering
02:31 <@preaction> no
02:31 <@preaction> just iCal
02:31 <@preaction> but you can make RSS out of any asset using shortcuts and template overrides
02:32 <+perlDreamer> are we still planning a general RSS solution for Assets?
02:32 < Samus_Aran> it seems that news and events would go together for many people
02:32 <+perlDreamer> to replace RSSCapable and RSSFromParent?
02:32 < Samus_Aran> I mean, any upcoming event is a newsworthy item
02:34 <+Radix-wrk> the collaboration system has an rss mode doesn't it?
02:34 <@preaction> Samus_Aran, please. if you have RFEs, post them to the RFE list. complaining about WebGUI's shortcomings here is counter-productive. patches are welcome.
02:34 <@preaction> Radix-wrk, yes. same with Syndicated Content assets
02:34 < Samus_Aran> any idea why the heading used for News is more prominent than that used by Calendar ?
02:35 <+Radix-wrk> prolly just different css used in each
02:35 <+Radix-wrk> you can change that through the template easily enough
02:35 <+Radix-wrk> Is the Thingy in 7.5.x yet?
02:35 < Samus_Aran> News uses <h2> and Calendar uses <h1>
02:36 <+perlDreamer> It's just the default template
02:36 < Samus_Aran> they should both be of the same importance
02:36 <+Radix-wrk> file it as a bug then
02:39 <@preaction> or edit the template and attach a package to the bug
02:39 < Samus_Aran> I just checked, and all other objects in my site are using <h2>, so it is the calendar that is doing it wrong
02:39 < Samus_Aran> where is the template ?
02:40 <+Radix-wrk> edit calendar, go to display tab and select edit next to the calendar template
02:41 <+Radix-wrk> easiest way would be to get rid of the title altogether tho :)
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02:42 <+Radix-wrk> looks like you'd need to edit each different view of the calendar otherwise
02:46 < Samus_Aran> I updated the 4 views.  quite easy, thank you
02:47 <@preaction> a note: if you edited the default templates, they can be overwritten by an upgrade. or you could submit the bug report and attach your changed templates
02:47 <@preaction> or you could copy the default templates and make changes to your copies
02:49 < Samus_Aran> how do I stop an item from taking over the page ?  e.g. on my "News & Events" page I have a News section then a Calendar section.  if any of the items on the calendar are clicked on, such as changing the view, it leaves the page and never goes back
02:50 < Samus_Aran> I don't want an end user seeing any of the sub-pages
02:50 < Samus_Aran> I mean, single components
02:53 <@preaction> didn't we discuss this last night? I know radix shared your sentiments, but it's not possible to do what you want and still get any functionality
02:54 <@preaction> okay, it is possible, but the resulting URLs would be horrendous
02:54 <@preaction> i believe i gave examples using the collaboration system
02:56 < Samus_Aran> I'm not concerned about the URLs, I am concerned about the end user being yanked out of the page they are in the middle of and being confused about how to get the rest of the content on the page
02:56 < Samus_Aran> if someone is scrolling down a page somewhere in the middle, and click a tab on a calendar, the rest of the page shouldn't magically disappear on them
02:57 < Samus_Aran> I haven't seen other web sites behave that way
02:57 < perlmonkey2> Okay, I need to start joining the survey system into WG.  Is the wiki wobject guide + skeleton still the best way to learn how to create wobjects?
02:59 < nuba> perlmonkey2: cool!
02:59 <@preaction> perlmonkey2, yes, for the most part. i've been told that the Gallery is the pinnacle of WebGUI development (i was told to build it as such), so look there for style and ideas on how to do permissions and such
02:59 < perlmonkey2> hah, cool until you realize how complicated WG is
03:00 <@preaction> the skeleton is a bit out of date. there are better ways to do some things
03:00 < perlmonkey2> preaction: thanks :)
03:00 <@preaction> i've been meaning to fix it, but no time (Gallery not done yet)
03:00 < perlmonkey2> preaction: that is what I thought.  I've looked at code and the skeleton and they don't match up well.
03:01 <@preaction> the gallery, galleryalbum and photo assets do things the best way we currently know how
03:02 < perlmonkey2> I don't see a Gallery?  Only the galleryalbulm and utility?
03:02 < perlmonkey2> I don't see a photo either
03:02 < perlmonkey2> not in the source tree yet?
03:03 <@preaction> they're in there
03:03 <@preaction> lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Gallery.pm lib/WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm
03:03 < perlmonkey2> preaction: wow.....I just did svn update 1 hour ago and I'm not seeing that....let me re update
03:04 < perlmonkey2> okay, found Photo.pm
03:05 < Samus_Aran> any idea why, when I have "filter code: nothing" it still doesn't display ^c; as the company name ?  this is on a news item displayed as a weblog
03:05 < perlmonkey2> but Gallery.pm isn't showing up ofr me
03:05  * perlmonkey2 wonders off to try to fix his subversion checkout
03:11 < perlmonkey2> preaction: you just submitted another version, yet I still can't get svn to get that file.  I can see it by browsing to the directory.  Strange.
03:11 <@preaction> weird indeed
03:11 <@preaction> maybe try a full checkout in another directory?
03:15 < perlmonkey2> hmm, reverted to a previous version then updated, and got it.
03:15 <@preaction> weird
03:16 < Samus_Aran> more issues with the weblog display for news: it only displays 8 words, instead of a couple paragrahs, before the "more" link
03:16 < Samus_Aran> *paragraphs
03:16 < Samus_Aran> where would I go to increase this limit ?
03:17 < Samus_Aran> I don't see anything in the template
03:18 < CIA-21> WebGUI: doug * r5416 /WebGUI/ (7 files in 5 dirs): 
03:18 < CIA-21> WebGUI: add: i18n for more Gallery templates
03:18 < CIA-21> WebGUI: add: International macro now takes sprintf arguments as third and subsequent parameters
03:18 < CIA-21> WebGUI: add: Keywords are now processed and given to the photo template, along with a url to search the gallery for the keyword.
03:18 < CIA-21> WebGUI: add: Photos now track views
03:18 < CIA-21> WebGUI: doug * r5417 /WebGUI/docs/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fix: multiple Gallery template fixes
03:19 < perlmonkey2> Samus_Aran: Good question.  What's the template name and I'll look at it.
03:19 < Samus_Aran> weblog under news
03:20 < perlmonkey2> an asset search for weblog brings back one template "weblog".  Is that it?
03:20 < Samus_Aran> Collaboration System Template: Weblog
03:20 < perlmonkey2> k
03:20 < Samus_Aran> yes
03:21 < perlmonkey2> looks like <tmpl_var synopsis> is being set in the wobject
03:22 <+Radix-wrk> tmpl_var synopsis usually picks up everything until the first newline in the text from memory
03:23 <@preaction> or up to the ^; marker (i think that's what it is)
03:23 <+Radix-wrk> ^-; ?
03:23 <@preaction> yeah, that
03:23 <+Radix-wrk> It's something funny like that
03:23 < perlmonkey2> the word synopsis shows up three times in the wobject.....I have no idea what is going on in any three.
03:23 < perlmonkey2> only that one is an rss item.
03:24 < Samus_Aran> "The ^c; beta web site is now up"\
03:24 < Samus_Aran> *all
03:24 < Samus_Aran> that is aklk it shows for me
03:24 < perlmonkey2> $var->{"synopsis.label"} = $i18n->get("synopsis");
03:24 < Samus_Aran> it also doesn't conver the ^c; into a company name, even with filters set to none
03:24 < Samus_Aran> *convert
03:24 < Samus_Aran> (this laptop keyboard sucks)
03:25 <+Radix-wrk> is the c macro listed in your webgui.conf file?
03:25 <+Radix-wrk> it might be disabled by default for some wierd reason
03:25 < Samus_Aran> I will look
03:25 < perlmonkey2> Samus_Aran: Just ot make sure I'm lookin at the right part of the template, the very next thing after the synopsis text, is the weblogReadMore div?
03:28 < Samus_Aran> Radix-wrk: where would webgui.conf normally reside ?
03:29 < Samus_Aran> I have a $PREFIX/etc/WebGUI.conf.original, but don't see any WebGUI.conf or webgui.conf file.  I don't recall instructions telling me to create that one
03:30 < Samus_Aran> I created one for my domain and one for spectre and one for logging
03:30 < Samus_Aran> perlmonkey2: <tmpl_var synopsis> \n <div class="weblogReadMore">
03:33 < Samus_Aran> where would I find the code for: $i18n->get("synopsis");  being called in "lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Collaboration.pm"
03:34 < perlmonkey2> That's whI have no idea how the synopsis is created.  I created a entry.  then changed the text of the entry.  The synopsis still shows the original ocntent even after I cleared the cache and forced a reload.  
03:35 < Samus_Aran> hm
03:36 < Samus_Aran> a simpler question: how do I create a page under another ?
03:36 < Samus_Aran> I don't get what a Folder is versus a Page Layout
03:36 < perlmonkey2> you create page layouts
03:36 < perlmonkey2> a page layouts contains assets
03:36 < Samus_Aran> is a Page Layout an asset ?
03:36 < perlmonkey2> they are what you might consider a "folder"
03:36 < perlmonkey2> yes
03:37 < perlmonkey2> it will be added to the nav bar and will be a "web page"
03:37 < Samus_Aran> and what is the WebGUI Folder ?
03:37 < perlmonkey2> that can contain articles, weblogs
03:37 < perlmonkey2> whatever
03:37 < perlmonkey2> a real file folder
03:37 < perlmonkey2> well
03:37 < perlmonkey2> a virtual file folder
03:37 < Samus_Aran> a real virtual file folder
03:37 < Samus_Aran> heh
03:37 < perlmonkey2> for assets
03:37 < Samus_Aran> so how does it differ from a Page Layout ?
03:38 <+Radix-wrk> it's more for displaying lists of things
03:38 <+Radix-wrk> like lists of files or the like
03:45 < perlmonkey2> where can I find posts to the collab in the database?
03:47 < perlmonkey2> This is so weird.  I can not make the new submission to the collab system show up in the synopsys.
03:51 < perlmonkey2> hmm, I'm guessing clearing the cache doens't effect all wobjects
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04:14 < Samus_Aran> is there any way to rearrange the order of pages after they are placed ?
04:14 < Samus_Aran> the order in which they appear in the flexmenu
04:16 < Samus_Aran> I suppose it's not that hard to cut all the pages, then repaste them in the order I want
04:18  * perlmonkey2 is still trying to figure out the synopsis.  I just don't see what is happening in the code.
04:19 < perlmonkey2> Samus_Aran: In the asset menu
04:19 < perlmonkey2> you can drag and drop them
04:19 < perlmonkey2> which effects how the nav asset displays them.
04:24 < Samus_Aran> perlmonkey2: I just figured out something about the synopsis
04:24 < perlmonkey2> Do tell :)
04:25 < Samus_Aran> strangely, when you edit the weblog entry, it only displays a subject and body
04:25 < Samus_Aran> but if you go to preview, it then shows a "summary"
04:25 < Samus_Aran> which is the synopsis
04:25 < Samus_Aran> so it isn't actually cutting it down, it seems
04:25 < Samus_Aran> it was a field hidden to me
04:25  * Samus_Aran goes to confirm it is only appearing after a preview
04:26 < perlmonkey2> ah
04:26 < perlmonkey2> I'm in preview and don't see a "summary".
04:26 < Samus_Aran> hm.  well it seems to be showing up now, but I know I didn't type in half a sentence before
04:26 < Samus_Aran> I'm not really sure what's going on with it
04:27 < Samus_Aran> I see it any time I go to edit now
04:28  * perlmonkey2 goes to make sure his gui privleges are maxed
04:28 < perlmonkey2> I wonder why I don't see it.
04:28 < perlmonkey2> you are using the weblog template?
04:29 < perlmonkey2> I only see Subject Message evne if I click preview
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04:31  * perlmonkey2 hates when he accidently logs out
04:32 < Samus_Aran> yes, using the weblog template.  however, I used another template at the start, and it imported data to the next template
04:32 < Samus_Aran> and each time it did that, it seemed to randomly do things to the data
04:32 < Samus_Aran> I think that switching through all the templates messed up my article
04:32 < perlmonkey2> In the database I can find the synopsis I see in the wobject table, but the complete post I can not find there.  I can't find it in any table.
04:33 < perlmonkey2> I have no idea which table submissions are stored.
04:33 < Samus_Aran> it just suddenly appeared for me when I went to preview
04:33 < Samus_Aran> and now everything is fine
04:33 < Samus_Aran> try switching to another template such as guestbook, when you already have a submission
04:33 < Samus_Aran> or Q/A, etc.
04:34 < Samus_Aran> I tried them all before I decided to stick with weblog
04:34 < Samus_Aran> and half of them displayed the entry strangely
04:34 < Samus_Aran> including inserting a line break in the middle of a sentence, which was not visible in the web form editing the text
04:35 < Samus_Aran> e.g. "this is a sentence" in the edit box, and when it was displayed on the list of news items, it showed up as: "this is"
04:35 < Samus_Aran> "a sentence"
04:35 < Samus_Aran> it seems that the various templates are not using the same exact variables
04:35 < perlmonkey2> Hah, I am pretty sure I know where the synopsis is coming from now.  PrepareView is a wrapper for the rss call. What you are seing on front is created by the rss feed.
04:35 < Samus_Aran> or not using them in the same way
04:37 < Samus_Aran> it would be nice if there were a way to change the date of the news items
04:38 < Samus_Aran> sometimes you want to post a few hours or days away
04:40 < perlmonkey2> I think the Webgui structure is far too complicated to understand without documentation.
04:40 < perlmonkey2> Trying to track down how this rss call is working is sending me all over the place
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04:42 < perlmonkey2> And still, I can never find where synopsis is set.
04:42 < perlmonkey2> this really sucks.
04:46 < perlmonkey2> Well I'm not sure it even works as I'm still getting the synopsis from my first post even though I've changed it.
04:47 < perlmonkey2> Well this sucks....Plone isn't very useful and I can never get WebGUI to work.
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04:49 < perlmonkey2> Yay, found a problem in the webgui.log
04:50 < perlmonkey2> looks like a permissions issue in my uploads directory.  
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04:53 < perlmonkey2>  main::[[undef]] - Could not instanciate object using new on WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Collaboration. The result is undefined. at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Instance.pm line 322
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06:53 -!- manishmanish [n=manish@OSH-199-188.themetrocondos.net] has joined #webgui
06:54 < manishmanish> hi
07:07 <+Radix-wrk> hi
07:08 < manishmanish> I'm new to webgui
07:08 < manishmanish> So, I'm d/ling, instsalling it now
07:08 < manishmanish> may have questions, but looks like an amazing promising system
07:08 <+Radix-wrk> good luck! :)
07:08 < manishmanish> :)
07:09 <+Radix-wrk> It's good.. installation can be awkward sometimes.. but it's worth it imho :)
07:10 < manishmanish> are there any plugins to allow checking for Domain Names?
07:10 < manishmanish> in the cms itself?
07:10 < manishmanish> i know, it's a wierd question :>
07:14 <+perlDreamer> What do you mean by "checking for Domain Names"?
07:15 < manishmanish> as in, within the CMS, i can test if a certain domain name is taken or not
07:18 <+perlDreamer> no, that's the job of a domain registrar
07:19 <+perlDreamer> we manage content
07:20 < manishmanish> 'k
07:23 < manishmanish> brb
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07:45 < manishmanish> back
07:45 < manishmanish> :)
07:47 < manishmanish> ok the million dollar question
07:47 < manishmanish> joomla vs webgui
07:47 < manishmanish> <i'm evaluating cms's, and leaning towards web gui>
07:47 < manishmanish> but want to make sure right tool, right job
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07:52 <@apeiron> manishmanish, As per your question, while I'm not going to offer advice one way or the other, I can offer a site that'll hopefully help you decide: cmsmatrix.org
07:52 < manishmanish> ok thanks apeiron
07:52 < manishmanish> i appreciate that
07:53 <@apeiron> manishmanish, I do have to concede that it *is* running WebGUI underneath (as you can see by looking at the page source) but there's a lot of info there.
07:53 < manishmanish> whoah
07:56 < manishmanish> 'kay buddy, i'm sold
07:56 < manishmanish> webgui it is
07:56 -!- manishmanish is now known as manish
07:56 -!- manish is now known as manishman
07:57 < Samus_Aran> sigh.  WebGUI is back to being slow, but more importantly it is locked again
07:57  * Samus_Aran goes to find out what's wrong with Spectre this time
07:59 < GooeyOfSteel> manishman: make sure you spend time playing with live demos of both
07:59 < Samus_Aran> there doesn't seem to be any spectre errors
07:59 < Samus_Aran> yet there are locks on various content
07:59 -!- cap10morgan [n=cap10mor@206-124-6-111.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has joined #webgui
08:00 < Samus_Aran> and nowhere to approve/set that content as active
08:00 < Samus_Aran> I already committed all changes
08:02 <@apeiron> Samus_Aran, Are there any other users that have open version tags?
08:02 < manishman> gooey i will
08:02 < manishman> anyone here install this on a mac?
08:02 <@apeiron> manishman, WebGUI yes.
08:02 < Samus_Aran> apeiron: I am setting it up, there are no other users
08:02 < manishman> apeiron cool
08:02 <@apeiron> manishman, If by Mac you mean OSX. :)
08:02 < manishman> yap
08:02 < manishman> os x
08:02 < manishman> :>
08:03 <@apeiron> Samus_Aran, hmm.
08:04 < Samus_Aran> when it was locked before, it was because Spectre was broken.  but I have fixed the Spectre issue now, no errors about it in the log file
08:04 < Samus_Aran> it was working an hour ago from work
08:04 < Samus_Aran> now I am connecting from home (outside the LAN) and it's in slow motion and I can't commit changes properly
08:06 < Samus_Aran> Permission denied: This Asset is locked for editing under a version tag different from the one that you are using.
08:06 < Samus_Aran> blah.
08:06 < Samus_Aran> version tags are all empty, and it says: You are currently working under a tag called: None.
08:07 <@apeiron> Samus_Aran, And under the "manage version tags" menu you don't see any tags, right?
08:07 <@preaction> Pending Version Tags in the right-hand side under the Version Tags icon of the Admin Console
08:08 <@preaction> er.. manage pending version tags i think
08:08 < Samus_Aran> there are two autotags there.  I opened one of them and clicked deleted, but there are still two
08:10 < Samus_Aran> I have now deleted everything inside those two autotags
08:10 < Samus_Aran> but they are still there
08:10 <@preaction> pending means that it's waiting on spectre. did you restart spectre? did it get its data correctly?
08:10 <@preaction> if that worked, those assets shouldn't be locked anymore
08:10 < Samus_Aran> under the "Manage pending versions"
08:10 < Samus_Aran> how do I remove the two autotags ?
08:10 < nuba> Samus_Aran: how's spectre's status, from the prompt?
08:11 <@preaction> but the pending tags will still be there until spectre gets a hold of them (no big deal really)
08:11 <@preaction> if you want to skip spectre in versioning, go to Settings and under Content > Default Workflow choose "Commit Content Immediately". then spectre won't enter the equation at all
08:11 < Samus_Aran> # perl spectre.pl --status
08:11 < Samus_Aran> Unable to connect to 127.0.0.1:32323: Connection refused
08:12 < Samus_Aran> sigh.  Spectre was working fine for hours
08:12 < Samus_Aran> I've restarted it a few times now, but it won't work anymore
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08:15 <@preaction> what does cd /data/WebGUI/sbin; perl spectre.pl --run --debug say? 
08:15 < nuba> launching GooeyOfSteel's wiki watch feature....
08:18 < Samus_Aran> preaction: after launching Apache, you mean ?
08:18 <@preaction> of course, apache, mysql. shut down spectre from the wreservice.pl script, and then run it using the command above
08:18 <@preaction> it will show you a lot of stuff, but the stuff at the beginning is most important
08:19 <@preaction> i suspect if it CAN connect, then something's going wrong with yoursite.com?op=spectreGetSiteData
08:19 <@preaction> it should return a string of JSON that spectre will parse. if it's broken, it will show up as your home page
08:20 <@preaction> sorry to cut in and run, but i've got a very long day ahead of me and i got no sleep last night. good luck
08:21 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: WebGUI Search System - Edited on 2/6/2008 11:30 pm by knowmad  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/webgui-search-system
08:21 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: WebGUI Statistics - Created on 2/6/2008 10:43 pm by knowmad  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/webgui-statistics
08:21 < nuba> from now on every wiki update gets posted here
08:23 <@apeiron> That may be a lot of traffic.
08:23 < nuba> nope, check http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki?func=recentChanges
08:24 < nuba> wiki isnt that lively
08:24 < nuba> unfortunately
08:24 < Samus_Aran> preaction: "perl spectre.pl --run --debug" didn't fail
08:24 <@apeiron> So maybe notthat much.
08:24 < Samus_Aran> why did you use --run and not --daemon ?
08:25 < nuba> now, when people come here for help, and we them for 'please write what youve learned at the wiki', we'll all know if they did it or not
08:25 < nuba> we ask them*
08:25 <@apeiron> --run       Starts Spectre without forking it as a daemon.
08:25 <@apeiron> (which means it won't detach from the terminal so you can see errors it gets)
08:28 < Samus_Aran> when I used --daemon it was still printing errors to the console
08:28 <@apeiron> Arguably, if spectre is dying for some unknown reason and isn't leaving anything in its wake in the logs, then you'll need to see if it's spitting anything to STDERR before going to the big garbage collector in the sky.
08:28 <@apeiron> Possibly before it fully dissociated itself?
08:28 < Samus_Aran> several seconds later
08:28 < Samus_Aran> lemme try again and see
08:29 < Samus_Aran> it is working now, it got rid of those empty version tags
08:29 < Samus_Aran> is there a proper way to stop it when it is started with --run ?
08:29 < Samus_Aran> just Ctrl+C ?
08:30 < nuba> well, kill -9 PID does the job too :)
08:30 <@apeiron> I'd personally keep it running that way for a while and see if the issue you're experiencing with it dying intermittently comes up again.
08:30 < Samus_Aran> what does this mean:
08:30 < Samus_Aran> WORKFLOW: Looks like WBQIpZfKZe1kDQZ5TG_6ZQ at priority 23 would be a good workflow instance to run.
08:30 <@apeiron> You don't want to start it normally again and then several hours later have it die and then wish you had it in debug mode still. :)
08:30 < Samus_Aran> WORKFLOW: Preparing to run workflow instance WBQIpZfKZe1kDQZ5TG_6ZQ.
08:31 < Samus_Aran> that popped up when I wasn't doing anything on the site
08:31 < Samus_Aran> okay, sounds fine
08:31 < Samus_Aran> it is running in GNU Screen, so I can reconnect to the server later if it messes up
08:31 <@apeiron> spectre runs some stuff in the background independent of you doing anything on the site, like daily maintenance.
08:31 < Samus_Aran> the screen session will log 3000 lines back, though that won't be that long considering it's spitting out 3 lines every 3 seconds
08:32 <@apeiron> You can have screen write a hardcopy log of your session.
08:32 < Samus_Aran> but the thing I pasted said "workflow instance"
08:32 <@apeiron> Yes.
08:32 < Samus_Aran> apeiron: I had forgotten all about that
08:32  * Samus_Aran goes to find the command
08:32 <@apeiron> ^a :log on
08:33 < nuba> screen rocks!
08:33 < Samus_Aran> I just did ^a :log
08:33 <@apeiron> The bits of work that spectre does in the background -- at least part of it -- are coded in modules. These modules are workflow activities. :)
08:33 < Samus_Aran> and it started logging
08:33 < Samus_Aran> though it didn't let me choose a filename
08:33 < Samus_Aran> hopefully I'll find it
08:33 < Samus_Aran> hehe
08:34 < Samus_Aran> nuba: screen is one of the greatest inventions of all time =)
08:34 < GooeyOfSteel> it'll bein the folder you were when you started screen
08:34 < Samus_Aran> nuba: I still kick myself for going years without trying it
08:34 <+Radix-wrk> second that.. I'm a big screen fan
08:34 <@apeiron> Hm, where you started screen?
08:34 < Samus_Aran> and that was years ago
08:34 <@apeiron> I thought it just put them in your home directory.
08:34 < GooeyOfSteel> apeiron: anywhere
08:34 <@apeiron> Although I guess I have a tendency to start screen immediately upon logging in so...
08:35 < Samus_Aran> I use screen excessively
08:35 <@apeiron> Samus_Aran, I don't have logins on this FreeBSD machine outside of screen.
08:35 < Samus_Aran> I have all my screens with full English titles and often run out on Ubuntu (it limits to I think 36 screens)
08:35 <@apeiron> 36? wowser.
08:35 < Samus_Aran> I compiled my own on my last distro, but haven't gotten around to doing so on Ubuntu yet
08:36 < GooeyOfSteel> i use screen by subjects - mail + im + irc - dev - sysadmin - remote consoles - etc
08:36 <@apeiron> If you're using xterms, you may want to look into screenwm.
08:36 < nuba> forgot I was in GooeyOfSteel's irssi, not mine :/
08:36 < Samus_Aran> my system is on for an average of 2 months at a time (before the nVIDIA driver leaks RAM and makes me crash or reboot)
08:36 <@apeiron> (I make the suggestion of combining the two in xterms because of the high res you can get in xterm)
08:36 < nuba> did you guys know scren can talk to a serial console directly?
08:36 < Samus_Aran> I use one Gnome-Terminal with transparency
08:36 <+Radix-wrk> I've been using screen since about 1993 :)
08:37 < Samus_Aran> I didn't know screen existed in 1993
08:37 <@apeiron> nuba, Interesting to know, though I've never had the need / hardware for it.
08:37 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Connection timed out]
08:37 < nuba> its like kermit, only much nicer :)
08:37 <+Radix-wrk> screen has been around for AGES
08:37 < Samus_Aran> I use ICEWM as my desktop, and I fullscreen all my apps, including the terminal I'm in atm
08:38 <@apeiron> Samus_Aran, If you're familiar with vim's split screen modes, you'd find screenwm very comfortable.
08:38 <@apeiron> Although it's kinda.. fragile.
08:38 < Samus_Aran> desktop 1 for my terminal apps, desktop 2 for Internet apps (web browsers, bittorrent), desktop 4 for word processing, 5 for GIMP
08:38 < Samus_Aran> I love ICEWM's keyboard control
08:39 < Samus_Aran> better than any other environment I've used
08:39 <+Radix-wrk> I used to use screen back when I was mudding at uni - was handy to appear to be working on my C code when instead I was attacking orcs in the mud I played in back then :)
08:39 < nuba> heh
08:39 < Samus_Aran> I was using DOS in those days
08:39 < Samus_Aran> I had Wishbringer, though.  fun text adventure
08:40 <+Radix-wrk> I got my first unix account in early 1993 - discovered muds shortly afterwards - grades subsequently dropped 20%.. doh
08:40 < Samus_Aran> and the original Amulet of Yendor.  precursor to Hack and NetHack
08:40 < Samus_Aran> Radix-wrk: heh
08:40 <+Radix-wrk> friend introduced me to linux around the same time
08:41 <@apeiron> Samus_Aran, You mean the original rogue?
08:41 < Samus_Aran> I gave up playing NetHack once I found Ancient Domains of Mystery.  I still love playing that.  I've been playing it off and on for I believe ten years now
08:41 <+Radix-wrk> he was running coherent unix around that time
08:42 < Samus_Aran> apeiron: I don't know if Amulet of Yendor or Rogue came out first, but the Rogue I played was more sophisticated than AoY
08:42 < Samus_Aran> apeiron: Hack came after AoY, and once it became open source and worked on over the net, it turned into NetHack
08:42 <@apeiron> Samus_Aran, I fooled around a bit with the original 4.4BSD rogue. Very, very basic. :)
08:42 <+Radix-wrk> Sorry.. I seem to have gotten the conversation offtrack with those comments, but it brings back memories :)
08:43 < Samus_Aran> apeiron: I think I have that on my Palm Pilot, hehe
08:43 < Samus_Aran> apeiron: it is... very bad.
08:43 <@apeiron> Samus_Aran, I have everything from the original rogue to recent versions of nethack, slashem, Linley's Dungeon Crawl, and many *bands installed here.
08:43 < Samus_Aran> apeiron: have you never tried ADOM, or avoid it because it isn't open source ?
08:43 <+Radix-wrk> lol
08:44 <@apeiron> Samus_Aran, Tried it. More a fan of the open source games. :)
08:44 <+Radix-wrk> telengard ftw
08:44 < Samus_Aran> I haven't played NetHack for more than about an hour since I got into ADOM 
08:45 < Samus_Aran> ADOM has a way better plot, extreme character development and moral development, numerous quests, wilderness maps and way more realism than NetHack
08:45 <@apeiron> Roguelike with a plot? No way!
08:45 < Samus_Aran> I dislike how NetHack literally had the kitchen sink.  all over the place.  even has Terminators and Barney
08:46 < Samus_Aran> far more realism in ADOM in that regard.  monsters all have very nicely written, imaginative descriptions
08:47 < Samus_Aran> and if you decide on a career of evil, you will have few friends and the game is way harder
08:47 < Samus_Aran> the ending for evil is to become a Chaos God.  never come close to that ending, so difficult.  but without any spoilers or save-cheating, I beat ADOM as good
08:48 < Samus_Aran> took me a few years =p
08:48 < Samus_Aran> on a good game of ADOM, my character lasts about a week
08:48 < GooeyOfSteel> anyone played a mind forever voyaging?
08:48 < Samus_Aran> of playing too much each day
08:49 < Samus_Aran> GooeyOfSteel: not I\
08:49 <@apeiron> Dammit. There's the inspiration to write my own game again.
08:49 < nuba> nowadays, there are good text adventures/interactive fiction for free
08:49 <@apeiron> Radix-wrk, See what you started?!
08:49 < Samus_Aran> I find that in ADOM, because of the character development and length of gameplay, you get really attached to the character (investing all that time in it), so the fights in ADOM get very epic
08:49 < nuba> and there are good apps like Gargoyle now, which makes the experience much better
08:50 < Samus_Aran> I was looking at that game engine that encourages people to make their own games.  I forget the name, but it may have been "make your own game", heh.  some very creative stuff made with it
08:50 < Samus_Aran> text adventures and graphical games alike
08:51 <+Radix-wrk> lucasarts scumm
08:51 <+Radix-wrk> those games rocked :)
08:51 < Samus_Aran> lots of scumm players for *nix
08:51 < nuba> theres a bunch of languages for writing interactive fiction too
08:51 < nuba> for zork and alikes
08:51 <+Radix-wrk> yeah, there's a scummvm for almost every platform known to man.. tis great :)
08:52 < Samus_Aran> apeiron: ADOM has extreme character development.  not just stats (though there are dozens of things to advance), but the moral choices your character makes really expands the game
08:52 <@apeiron> Samus_Aran, Huh, interesting.
08:53 < Samus_Aran> apeiron: and you get corrupted as time goes by, the closer you get to the source of the chaos that is seeping into the land.  corruptions are things like growing hooves, sulphuric acid dripping from your fingers, your brain growing several times larger, etc.
08:53 < Samus_Aran> the corruptions are both good and bad, and by the end of the game you are one messed up ugly f---er
08:54 < Samus_Aran> you really feel the effect of these corruptions, it makes you want to hurry up and get through the game 
08:54 < nuba> contemporary interactive fiction, for free http://www.ifwiki.org/index.php/XYZZY_Awards_2006
08:54 < Samus_Aran> one of the most annoying is a dark aura.  creatures randomly run screaming from you in fear... and shopkeepers come and attack you for chasing away their customers =p
08:54 < Samus_Aran> nuba: /me checks it otu
08:54 < Samus_Aran> *out
08:57 < Samus_Aran> apeiron: the one time I did beat ADOM, my character was such a mess of corruptions that my ending resulted in roughly:
08:57 < Samus_Aran> "You make your way home to your village, where you become an outcast. Shunned by your friends and family, you die alone and miserable.  But you saved the world."
08:57 <@apeiron> heh heh
08:57 <@apeiron> And on that note, bedtime for me.
08:57 < Samus_Aran> I want to beat it again, with a "happy" ending
08:58 < Samus_Aran> there's also an ending for neutral characters, but I have no idea what it even is
08:58 < Samus_Aran> apeiron: night
09:02 < nuba> GooeyOfSteel: check hq.imaterial.org
09:02 < GooeyOfSteel> hq.imaterial.org 
09:02 < nuba> not working..
09:05 < nuba> GooeyOfSteel: check hq.imaterial.org
09:05 < GooeyOfSteel> hq.imaterial.org   Server: Apache/2.0.59 (Unix) WebGUI/7.5.2 mod_ssl/2.0.59 OpenSSL/0.9.7i mod_apreq2-20051231/2.5.7 mod_perl/2.0.2 Perl/v5.8.8
09:06 < nuba> this is from the HTTP headers
09:06 < nuba> i remember someone mentioned a while ago about having a bot with that here
09:07 < nuba> to help with troubleshooting
09:07 < nuba> there it is
09:07 < nuba> GooeyOfSteel: check rm -rf /
09:07 < GooeyOfSteel> rm-rf / 
09:08 < Samus_Aran> what exactly is "Manage pending versions." and why does WebGUI no longer just let me commit my changes for the last while all at once ?
09:08 < Samus_Aran> there is no commit button on "Manage pending versions", it just shows items
09:09 < Samus_Aran> it was automatically adding version tags for me before, now it just has "none" as the version tag
09:09 < nuba> GooeyOfSteel: check rm -rf /
09:09 < GooeyOfSteel> rm-rf / 
09:09 < Samus_Aran> GooeyOfSteel: check http://localhost/
09:09 < GooeyOfSteel> http//localhost/ 
09:09 < Samus_Aran> GooeyOfSteel: check localhost
09:09 < GooeyOfSteel> localhost   Server: Apache/2.0.59 (Unix) WebGUI/7.5.2 mod_ssl/2.0.59 OpenSSL/0.9.7i mod_apreq2-20051231/2.5.7 mod_perl/2.0.2 Perl/v5.8.8
09:10 < Samus_Aran> GooeyOfSteel: check auk.ca
09:10 < GooeyOfSteel> auk.ca   Server: Apache/2.2.3 (Ubuntu) PHP/5.2.1 mod_ssl/2.2.3 OpenSSL/0.9.8c
09:10 < Samus_Aran> it's nice and fast
09:13 < Samus_Aran> my site has gone back to locking everything, and no way to approve it
09:13 < Samus_Aran> sigh.
09:13 < Samus_Aran> the Spectre is still running fine in debug mode
09:13 < GooeyOfSteel> how many workflows you have there?
09:13 < GooeyOfSteel> check with perl spectre.pl --status
09:13 < Samus_Aran> I don't know what a workflow is
09:14 < GooeyOfSteel> well whats the result of "perl spectre.pl --status | wc -l" ?
09:14 < Samus_Aran> Suspended Workflows    1
09:14 < Samus_Aran>   Waiting Workflows    0
09:14 < Samus_Aran>   Running Workflows    0
09:14 < Samus_Aran> any idea why it would be suspended ?
09:15 < Samus_Aran> what are "Manage pending versions" ?
09:15 < GooeyOfSteel> i thought you may have been running into branch edits with lots of descendants. that happened with me once, total pain in the ass...
09:15 < Samus_Aran> it keeps creating those and locks all my changes with no way to approve them
09:15 < GooeyOfSteel> but its not the case
09:15 < Samus_Aran> this is a very small site with only me as the user
09:16 < Samus_Aran> this is so frustrating.  I can't make any changes to the web site
09:17 < GooeyOfSteel> i've no idea on what could be it
09:17 <+Radix-wrk> GooeyOfSteel: check formsys.com
09:17 < GooeyOfSteel> formsys.com   Server: Apache/2.0.58 (Unix) WebGUI/7.0.8 mod_ssl/2.0.58 OpenSSL/0.9.7i mod_apreq2-20051231/2.5.7 mod_perl/2.0.2 Perl/v5.8.8
09:17 < GooeyOfSteel> maybe a bug, did you consider upgrading to the lates stable?
09:17 <+Radix-wrk> GooeyOfSteel: check juga.org
09:17 < GooeyOfSteel> juga.org   Server: Apache/2.0
09:17 < GooeyOfSteel> Radix-wrk: GooeyOfSteel is me when I forget Im in another irssi
09:17 < GooeyOfSteel> oops
09:17 < nuba> i mean me
09:18 < Samus_Aran> I am on the latest stable
09:18 < Samus_Aran> it's my first install since 4.x
09:18 <+Radix-wrk> GooeyOfSteel: check www.juga.org
09:18 < GooeyOfSteel> www.juga.org   Server: Apache/2.0
09:18 < Samus_Aran> nuba: you should run that irssi as a different user and set a different theme
09:18 < nuba> Radix-wrk: oh i thought you asked me to check the site for some interesting content
09:18 < nuba> heh
09:18 < Samus_Aran> e.g. a red status bar
09:19 <+Radix-wrk> I was taking advantage of your check script :)
09:19 < nuba> Samus_Aran: its a different screen session, logged as a different user
09:19 <+Radix-wrk> interestingly enough - my home setup of webgui doesn't return anything other than apache
09:19 < nuba> but yeah a different theme can help
09:19 < nuba> Radix-wrk: you on WRE?
09:19 < Samus_Aran> GooeyOfSteel: check plainblack.com
09:19 < GooeyOfSteel> plainblack.com   Server: Apache/2.0
09:19 <+Radix-wrk> yeah
09:20 < nuba> you can limit the amount of stuff apache spits out at the config
09:20 < Samus_Aran> how the hell do I commit "pending versions" ?
09:20 <+Radix-wrk> should be using 7.4.20 at home.. compiled wre myself
09:20 < nuba> the lesser, the better
09:20 < Samus_Aran> there are no commit buttons and they're all locked
09:20 <+Radix-wrk> Samus_Aran: it's all done by Spectre
09:20 < Samus_Aran> well why isn't spectre in debug mode showing any errors ?  =/
09:20 <+Radix-wrk> Spectre is the one that processes all commits, workflows, background tasks, etc
09:21 < Samus_Aran> it says the workflow is suspended
09:21 <+Radix-wrk> nothing in the normal webgui log file?
09:21  * Samus_Aran checks
09:22 < Samus_Aran> Asset constructor new() requires an assetId.
09:22 < Samus_Aran> Pass in object came back undefined for activity
09:22 < Samus_Aran> about ten of those
09:22 <+Radix-wrk> Hmm.. what version are you using?
09:23 < nuba> 'night guys, time to sleep, 5am already
09:23 < Samus_Aran> latest stable as of Thursday
09:23 <+Radix-wrk> nite nuba
09:24 < Samus_Aran> manual install, not the WRE
09:24 < Samus_Aran> it works fine for hours, then does odd things
09:25 <+Radix-wrk> I used to get some wierd errors back before I started to use the WRE.  Ones that noone else could reproduce :(  Was one of the main reasons I ended up switching to the WRE.
09:26 <+Radix-wrk> Some debian perl module I'd apt-getted had was causing mysterious things to happen that the WRE and other systems weren't getting I suspect.
09:26 < Samus_Aran> there are thousands of systems out there running Apache, MySQL, Perl, PHP, etc. ... the WRE seems like such a bad idea
09:26 <+Radix-wrk> not at all
09:26 < Samus_Aran> effort should be put into a proper installer
09:26 < Samus_Aran> not forcing people to give up all their services 
09:27 <+Radix-wrk> The WRE isn't perfect, but it's not hard to integrate it with other setups
09:27 < Samus_Aran> running two copies of all the servers on the system is very inefficient
09:27 <+Radix-wrk> And you can literally install a machine from scratch and have the wre up and running in under an hour.
09:28 < Samus_Aran> and when the machine already exists, ...
09:28 < Samus_Aran> it has a dozen web sites on it already
09:28 < Samus_Aran> using the MySQL database
09:28 <+Radix-wrk> yeah, well there's no easy way to integrate those setups
09:28 < Samus_Aran> and that's my point, it should be easy
09:28 < Samus_Aran> there's no reason the script can't just check the versions of the required components and let people know if their versions aren't okay
09:29 < Samus_Aran> it already does this, but it is very fragile outside of the WRE
09:29 <+Radix-wrk> well I think the main problem is the lack of developers outside plainblack working on webgui
09:30 <+Radix-wrk> plainblack is keen to add more power and flexibility in webgui
09:30 < Samus_Aran> the silly organisation I work for bought a very expensive rack mount server (which is sitting on a wood shelf).  perhaps I should just run WebGUI in a virtual machine
09:30 <+Radix-wrk> I do
09:31 <+Radix-wrk> well.. not my production system, but I have a couple of virtual machine images I use for testing
09:31 < Samus_Aran> seems a pain, though.  having two distros to maintain, and CPU/RAM inefficient
09:31 <+Radix-wrk> Feel free to help out if you can - we need more people working on webgui and improving it
09:31 < Samus_Aran> how can I deal with the suspended workflow ?
09:31 < Samus_Aran> "Last State: error"
09:32 <+Radix-wrk> can you force it to run?
09:32 < Samus_Aran> I don't know how
09:32 < Samus_Aran> I've restarted Spectre but it had no effect
09:32 < Samus_Aran> I'll try restarting Apache
09:32 <+Radix-wrk> I'm not as familiar with the latest versions, but you should see a workflows tab in webgui
09:33 <+Radix-wrk> and can see workflows that are stuck there and restart them manually
09:33 < Samus_Aran> that's only in the WRE, isn't it ?
09:33 <+Radix-wrk> no
09:33 < Samus_Aran> okay
09:34 <+Radix-wrk> Go to Workflows
09:34 <+Radix-wrk> and 'Show Running Workflows' on the far right
09:35 <+Radix-wrk> You can also get there by selecting Spectre from Admin Console it looks like
09:35 < Samus_Aran> I restarted Apache and then Spectre, and now it worked
09:35 < Samus_Aran> the pending changes went through
09:35 <+Radix-wrk> cool
09:35 < Samus_Aran> cool that it works, but not cool that it seems to do this at random =/
09:35 <+Radix-wrk> agreed
09:36 <+Radix-wrk> no idea how you'd find that out.. but you should at least be able to see in webgui itself if there are any suspended workflows
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09:38 < ryuu_ro> morning
09:39 <+Radix-wrk> heya
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09:42 < Samus_Aran> sigh.  it's doing the slow motion thing bad.  I clicked on the button to add a new user, and 2 minutes later it still hasn't added the user
09:42 <+Radix-wrk> wierd
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--- Log opened Tue Feb 12 10:43:28 2008
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12:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: graham * r5418 /WebGUI/ (lib/WebGUI/Macro/AdminToggle.pm docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt): fix: don't show Admin mode toggle when not in adminModeSubnets
12:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: graham * r5419 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Content/Setup.pm): fix regression: Site starter style displays incorrectly in IE
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16:53 < SDuensin> Morning all.
16:54 < BartJol> morning
16:59 < AMH_bob> mornin'
16:59 <+Radix_> nite :)
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18:08 < perlmonkey2> Is the collaboration system hopelessly complicated or am I retarded for not being able to figure out how it works?
18:15 < ckotil> i have it commented out, bc its always been a pain in my ass
18:16 < ckotil> i uncommented it only last week , bc someone requested a 'blog' asset, and i immediately got workflow errors in webgui.log
18:16 < ckotil> so i removed it yet again, and ill figure out something else for the blog
18:17 <@khenn> the collab system is complicated, but once you understand it, it makes sense
18:17 <@khenn> what are you having issues with?
18:18 -!- khenn_ [n=khenn@24-159-239-186.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #WebGUI
18:22 < perlmonkey2> khenn I thought it would be a good learning experiment to track down how the post synopsis is created and stored and to try to change its length.  I couldn't even figure out how it is created, let alone stored and then displayed.
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18:43 < nuba> hi folks
18:43 < nuba> GooeyOfSteel is the new wiki watcher bot
18:44 <+perlDreamer> where does he log to, nuba?
18:45 < manishman> morning
18:45 < nuba> its a quick-n-simple hack, uses Tie::File to keep the array of updates in a file
18:46 < nuba> and uses HTML::TreeBuilder to lookup the first <UL> in the content area of http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki?func=recentChanges
18:47 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: WebGUI Statistics - Created on 2/6/2008 10:43 pm by knowmad  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/webgui-statistics
18:47 < khenn_> perlmonkey2:  synopsis is part of each asset.  It's stored automatically
18:48 < nuba> that how it reports wiki activity
18:48 -!- khenn_ is now known as khenn
18:48 -!- mode/#webgui [+o khenn] by ChanServ
18:48 < nuba> thats*
18:48 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui
18:48 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ
18:48 <+perlDreamer> that's very bool
18:48 <@khenn> I'd recommend using a macro if you want to change the way synopsis is displayed.
18:48 <+perlDreamer> cool
18:48 < nuba> GooeyOfSteel also has a "check" feature that may help while debugging problems of people that come here
18:48 <@khenn> you'd have to change core WebGUI otherwise
18:49 < nuba> GooeyOfSteel: check www.imaterial.org
18:49 < GooeyOfSteel> www.imaterial.org   Server: Apache/2.0.59 (Unix) WebGUI/7.4.19 mod_ssl/2.0.59 OpenSSL/0.9.7i mod_apreq2-20051231/2.5.7 mod_perl/2.0.2 Perl/v5.8.8
18:49 <@rizen> that's sweet
18:49 < nuba> hi rizen 
18:49 <@rizen> howdy
18:49 <+perlDreamer> sounds like I'll have two competitors for Contributor of the Year :)
18:49 <@khenn> how was lala land?
18:50 <@rizen> still in it, they gave me something
18:50 <@khenn> gave you something?
18:50 <+perlDreamer> He's sick as a misconfigured Spectre?
18:50 <@rizen> yeah, got some gunk in my head
18:50 <@rizen> drainage
18:51 <@rizen> i'm sure it will go away quickly
18:51 <@rizen> i usually fight this stuff off pretty easily
18:51 < nuba> is there info on perlbot usage anywhere?
18:51 < nuba> perlbot, usage
18:51 < nuba> perlbot, help
18:51 < perlbot> (fact) : tell (who) about (what) : (what) > (who) : learn (what) as (info) : relearn (fact) as (info) : phone (phone #) : shorten (url) : shorten it : search (keyword) : cpan (module) : docs (module) : perldoc -f (function) : jargon (term) : math (expr): fortune : flip : host (type) (record) : rot13 (text) : roll (die) : tempconv (temp) : scramble (foo) : 8ball (question) : slap (who) : diss (who) : top/bottom (number) karma : geoip (ip)
18:52 < nuba> CIA-20, help
18:52 < nuba> CIA-20, usage
19:05 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui
19:05 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ
19:06 -!- wgGuest84 [n=wgGuest8@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has joined #webgui
19:07 < wgGuest84> hello
19:07 < wgGuest84> i try to run the spectre and show me the next error: ADMIN: [Error] Couldn't connect to WebGUI site www.liz.com.conf at http://www.liz.com:80/?op=spectreGetSiteData.  Response: 500 Server closed connection without sending any data back
19:07 < wgGuest84> what i must do?
19:10 < nuba> perlbot: pastebin
19:10 < perlbot> (see paste)
19:10 < nuba> perlbot: pasteb
19:10 < nuba> perlbot: paste
19:10 < perlbot> Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl http://erxz.com/pb or http://p3m.org/pfn/perl and #Perl will be able to view it.
19:10 < wgGuest84> http://pastebin.com/m651f5eb7
19:11 < nuba> wgGuest84: that wasnt directed to you
19:11 < nuba> im just listing the available pastebins
19:12 <@apeiron> nuba, There's a 'search' keyword that you can use to find factoids matching a keyword.
19:12 < wgGuest84> ok
19:12 < nuba> apeiron: thx
19:13 < wgGuest84> then what i do?
19:14 <@khenn> check your www.liz.com.conf to make sure your spectre settings are correct.  The 500 error could be anything really.
19:14 < nuba> is xdanger the one mantaining logs available at http://mentalhouse.net/irc/logs/webgui/ ?
19:15 <@preaction> nuba, yes
19:15 <@khenn> is there anything in the modproxy or modperl error logs?
19:15 <@khenn> if not, bump the log level to "INFO" and see what it says
19:15 <@preaction> wgGuest84, also check the webgui.log. you may also want to try accessing that URL it says to and see what it responds with
19:16 < wgGuest84> no responds
19:16 < wgGuest84> spectre.conf - POE::Kernel::_dispatch_event[1012] - ADMIN: Couldn't connect to WebGUI site www.liz.com.conf at http://www.liz.com:80/?op=spectreGetSiteData.  Response: 500 Server closed connection without sending any data back
19:17 <@preaction> sounds like an apache problem
19:17 <@khenn> yeah, what does it say in the modperl log?
19:21 -!- wgGuest09 [n=wgGuest0@20158245149.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #webgui
19:22 < manishman> !@#$ 
19:22 < wgGuest84> http://pastebin.com/m54935e01
19:22 < wgGuest84> this is error.log from apache2
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19:24 <@khenn> It's complaining about not being able to load Template.pm
19:24 <@khenn> not sure if this is related
19:24 <@khenn> did you make changes to it?
19:24 <@khenn> does it compile?
19:25 < wgGuest84> i don't understand
19:25 < wgGuest84> i don't make changes
19:25 <@khenn> well your apache log seems to indicate that Template.pm can't be loaded
19:25 < wgGuest84> i just install and don't see my pages
19:25 <@khenn> so either it's not there
19:25 <@khenn> or it doesn't compile
19:26 < wgGuest84> mmm ok
19:26 <@khenn> have you run setEnvironment?
19:26 <@preaction> khenn, the new webgui seems to try to load WebGUI::Asset::Template::TemplateToolkit and ::HTMLTemplateExpr automatically
19:26 <@khenn> ie are you using the right Perl?
19:26 < wgGuest84> testEnviroment
19:26 < wgGuest84> yes
19:26 <@preaction> without even having them in the webgui.conf
19:26 <@khenn> hmm
19:26 <@khenn> yeah that's a problem
19:27 <@preaction> renaming those to .pm.disabled or something usually works to fix this problem
19:27 <@preaction> but it's probably a bug
19:29 < wgGuest84> and what i do?
19:29 < wgGuest84> compile Template.pm?
19:30 <+perlDreamer> preaction: preload.exclude
19:31 <@preaction> oh, right
19:33 -!- tteesstt [i=c94e0ebd@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-43e4f51908973664] has joined #webgui
19:35 <+perlDreamer> rizen: <whine> there are no pictures in the SCALE tbb posting </whine>
19:38 <@rizen> what?
19:39 <@rizen> i see pictures
19:39 <+perlDreamer> hm
19:39 <@rizen> did you actually go into the posting
19:39 <@rizen> to see the comments etc
19:39 <@rizen> they don't show on the front page
19:39 <+perlDreamer> No. If you go to pb.com/tbb, there's no direct link to the post
19:39 <@rizen> only in the post
19:39 <+perlDreamer> yeah
19:39 <@rizen> yes
19:40 <@rizen> click on comments
19:40 <+perlDreamer> Okay, got it.
19:42 -!- tteesstt [i=c94e0ebd@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-43e4f51908973664] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"]
19:44 <+perlDreamer> I've started teaching BartJol testing
19:45 <+perlDreamer> He's going to be a monster programmer soon
19:45 <@rizen> excellent
19:45 <@rizen> oh yeah, ihave to send an email to koen to make sure he brings bart to the wuc
19:46 <@rizen> bart really wants to come but isn't sure if koen will bring him
19:46 <@rizen> =)
19:46 <+perlDreamer> He's gotta be there now
19:46 <+perlDreamer> Who else is going to make pumpkin soup?
19:53 < manishman> umm guys
19:53 < manishman> i have an issue here with mysql
19:54 <+perlDreamer> WRE mysql or system mysql?
19:54 < manishman> well i had mysql installed for one of my apps, then installed wre
19:54 < manishman> and now when i start the mysql instance for the apps, it keeps loading the wre data location
19:54 <+perlDreamer> yup
19:54 < manishman> so naturally
19:54 < manishman> where do change it back to my original data location?
19:54 <+perlDreamer> You can't run them both at once
19:55 <+perlDreamer> one can only run one or the other
19:55 < manishman> which is fine PD
19:55 < manishman> how can i tell it to load mysql from my original location tho?
19:55 < manishman> for the data?
19:55 < manishman> it keeps loading data dir from wre location
19:55 <+perlDreamer> I believe that if you shut down mysql, and replace the original /etc/my.conf and then restart that it should work.
19:56 < manishman> 'k
19:56 < manishman> let me try it
19:56 < manishman> thanks
20:00 < manishman> it worked!
20:00 < manishman> thanks PD
20:00 <+perlDreamer> you're welcome, manishman
20:00 < perlmonkey2> I wonder how hard it would be to port Plone's KSS to Perl.  That is a really neat idea.
20:03 < perlmonkey2> If I wanted to grok all the basics of wobject develoment, which is the best wobject to start studying?  I've looked at the wiki and skeleton, but I want to start fleshing out my knowledge.
20:03 <+perlDreamer> The Article
20:03 < perlmonkey2> cool, thanks
20:03 <+perlDreamer> The individual Wobjects are so individual that it's hard to pin down one
20:04 <+perlDreamer> but the Article is the easiest.
20:04 <+perlDreamer> Then Folder
20:04 <+perlDreamer> Nav
20:04 <@rizen> collab system is probably the most complex
20:04 <@rizen> either that or EMS
20:04 <+perlDreamer> The CS is the granddaddy of them all
20:04 < perlmonkey2> rizen: the collab system made me cry.
20:04 < perlmonkey2> I feared for my life.
20:04 <+perlDreamer> it makes him cry, too
20:04 <@rizen> indeed
20:05 <@apeiron> perlmonkey2, One of the trials by fire of working for PB is that they drop you in the CS and tell you to write patches for it in your first few months. :)
20:06 < nuba> heh
20:06 <@preaction> mmmmmmmm collaboration system
20:06 < perlmonkey2> hah....I guess that is sink or swim with a 50lb weight tied to your ankle :D
20:06 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: IRC - Edited on 2/12/2008 11:56 am by nuba  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/irc
20:07 <+perlDreamer> nuba++
20:07 < nuba> thx :)
20:07 <@apeiron> nuba, Maybe make the bot autokarma people's names when they submit wiki changes, like the bots in #perl6 do for commits?
20:08 -!- wgGuest84 [n=wgGuest8@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20:08 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: karma nuba
20:08 < perlbot> Karma for nuba: 2
20:08 < perlmonkey2> wow, nice wiki post.
20:08 < nuba> i thought about that, but then people may have different nicks here on IRC and on webgui.org
20:09 <+perlDreamer> it would involve more screen scraping, but people could keep their nicks in their WebGUI profiles
20:09 < nuba> it would make things simpler
20:09 < nuba> otherwise the bot would have to manage nick maps
20:10 < nuba> did it once, for a punchclock irc bot, its some extra hassle..
20:11 -!- dionak [n=dkidd@adsl-072-149-129-114.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has joined #webgui
20:11 -!- klnielsen [n=klnielse@sceapdsd43-231.989studios.com] has joined #webgui
20:11 < klnielsen> good morning all :D  
20:12 < Samus_Aran> morning
20:12  * Samus_Aran yawns
20:12 < Samus_Aran> Just woke up.
20:14 < dionak> morning
20:15 < klnielsen> Samus - lucky!
20:17 < manishman> ok i'm configuring webgui
20:17 < manishman> it's saying you can test the mysql instance by running mysql-test-run.pl
20:17 < manishman> where is this?
20:19 <+perlDreamer> perhaps wre/sbin?
20:20 < nuba> manishman: you could try 'find /data -name mysql-test-run.pl'
20:20 < nuba> better: /data/wre
20:21 < manishman> thanks nuba
20:22 < manishman> hrm. it's not with this distro
20:28 <@apeiron> Looks like it's part of the MySQL source.
20:30 < manishman> yeah
20:31 < manishman> apeiron: Got a few minutes to get me past a roadblock? I've been at it for a while now
20:31 <@apeiron> manishman, Will try. :)
20:36 < klnielsen> quick question: does anyone out there have any themes to recommend?
20:37 <@preaction> there's a couple nice ones in the Get Add Ons section of WebGUI.org
20:41 < klnielsen> I grabbed NonZero and Envision
20:41 < klnielsen> thank you, as always, sir :)
20:41 < klnielsen> Hope you and Apeiron weren't here too late on Friday
20:51 < klnielsen> Sorry to be a bother, but where is the class icon of the page layout asset that is my home page?
20:51 <+perlDreamer> Are you in Admin mode?
20:51 < klnielsen> yes
20:51 <+perlDreamer> There should be an editing bar.  X Edit Cut Copy Swoosh
20:51 < klnielsen> I got through the first list of steps on how to change one's theme, but...
20:52 <+perlDreamer> To the left of the X is the Page Layout Class icon
20:52 < nuba> icons are in /extras/assets/layout.gif and /extras/assets/small/layout.gif
20:52 < klnielsen> ummm
20:52 < klnielsen> sorry
20:53 < klnielsen> I am trying to do the first step in the second list on this page:  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/how-to-install-a-webgui-site-theme
20:53 < klnielsen> what page am I on when I am doing this?
20:53 < nuba> okay
20:53 < nuba> you will be doing a "branch edit"
20:53 < klnielsen> the page where I uploaded the wgpkg?
20:54 < nuba> that means that the asset and every descendent will be edit
20:54 < nuba> you will click and select "branch edit" in the small icon to the left of the editing toolbar of the asset
20:54 < klnielsen> which asset?
20:54 < nuba> that only appears with admin mode on
20:54 < klnielsen> am I on the assets page?
20:55 < nuba> you can do that from the assets manager, or from browsing the site with admin on
20:55 < klnielsen> ah
20:55 < klnielsen> best practices are?
20:55 < nuba> go to the highest page in the hierarchy from where you want to apply the change, including it
20:56 < nuba> whatevers suits you
20:56 < manishman> YES!
20:56 < manishman> MYSQL CONNECTED!
20:56 < nuba> suppose that /home is the root of your website. go to www.yourwebsite/home?op=switchOnAdmin
20:56 <+perlDreamer> Hack on, manishman!
20:56 < manishman> :)
20:57 < manishman> it's kind of a wierd set up
20:57 <+perlDreamer> You bridged your old data onto the WRE?
20:57 < manishman> no no
20:57 < nuba> look for this image in the highest toolbar you see http://hq.imaterial.org/extras/assets/small/layout.gif
20:57 < manishman> i got old working
20:57 < manishman> but i went back to wre
20:57 < manishman> silly wre set up wouldnt configure mysql
20:57 < manishman> but now it's fine 
20:57 < manishman> i killed and restarted the database
20:57 < manishman> very odd/finicky
20:58 < klnielsen> ack - got it, nuba.  Thank you.  Sorry I am so slow.
20:58 < nuba> np
20:58 < nuba> you can also browse to www.yourwebsite.com/home?func=manageAssets
20:59 < nuba> and click in Home at the crumbtrail
20:59 < klnielsen> woot!
20:59 < klnielsen> this is so neat.
20:59 < nuba> crumbtrail is the "Root > Home" thing
20:59  * klnielsen will be back after her meeting
20:59 < nuba> the same context menu will appear
20:59 < klnielsen> nuba - got it.  I have problems when learning new terms for things.  I am very much a "thingie" "whatsit" kind of person.
20:59 < klnielsen> :/
21:00 < nuba> heh its ok
21:00 <+perlDreamer> klnielsen: You'll be happy to know that we have a Thingy asset in the works already
21:01 <+perlDreamer> If you tell us what a Whatsit is, we'll start planning it next :)
21:05 < nuba> rizen: google now has a forms feature for their spreadsheets, plus the API
21:05 < nuba> http://googledocs.blogspot.com/2008/02/stop-sharing-spreadsheets-start.html and http://code.google.com/apis/spreadsheets/overview.html
21:06 < nuba> isnt this like "Thingy, Lite Edition" ?
21:09 < nuba> klnielsen: just a warning, as far as I know, "edit branch" should be avoided if you have lots of descendants. I used it with ~3000 descendants (posts) and it wasnt a good experience.
21:10 <+perlDreamer> It needs to be a Workflow process
21:10 < nuba> i dont remember whats the reasonable limit, but probably someone else here can hint you on it
21:10 <+perlDreamer> that way long processes don't have to be inside the HTTP timeout
21:11 < nuba> yep
21:12 <@rizen> i suppose it's like a mini thingy
21:12 <@rizen> hard to say without using it
21:12  * perlDreamer goes to the gym
21:19 < nuba> i wonder if it'll turn into a mini-access within google docs, in the same rank as spreadsheets, docs, presentations
21:23 < nuba> google is already touting it "as a database and access data for another application via the Spreadsheets Data API"
21:24 < nuba> from that to a friendly interface for the everyman seems like a small gap to bridge to me
21:31 < nuba> poor ms
21:33 < nuba> rizen: ive got the guy at http://chl.be/mascots/ to add gooey there.
21:33 < nuba> he replied "Thank you for this report. Gooey is so cute that I couldn't wait to add it on my list. However, why don't you show it on your main page?"
21:33 -!- manishman [n=manish@OSH-199-188.themetrocondos.net] has quit []
21:36 < nuba> ( http://chl.be/mascots/ is where wikipedia points to as external link for the list of open source mascots )
21:37 <@rizen> cool
21:40 < nuba> im passing on the reply cause 1) its not my main page, its yours, and 2) i agree gooey should be featured more proeminently, specially since now I have a bot called GooeyOfSteel :)
22:47 < klnielsen> Does anyone know if there is a way to make multiple feeds (on a syndicated content page) sort/display by date/time rather than source?
22:49 <@preaction> Display tab > something about Interlaced
22:49 < klnielsen> As I have mentioned before, you are the best.  :)
23:06 <+perlDreamer> preaction++ rocks!
23:19 <@preaction> so i have a Redirect asset with some enhancements: it also passes whatever query parameters it gets to the URL it's redirecting you to
23:19 <@preaction> but there's one problem: It doesn't work through a login
23:20 <+perlDreamer> so if you have to login to the site it losses the query parameters?
23:20 <@preaction> the login form is given a "returnUrl" which points to the Redirect asset and adds query parameters. when the user logs in, they're redirected to the "returnUrl"
23:20 <@preaction> yes
23:21 <@preaction> so user goes to foo?param=bar; they're shown a form to login that now has a returnUrl of foo?param=bar, they login and for some reason they seem to be redirected to foo?param=bar BUT with the same POST form from the login
23:22 <@preaction> so since it's a POST, apache2::request doesn't give me ?param=bar, and instead gives me the POST parameters
23:22 <+perlDreamer> and you lose the redirect
23:22 <@preaction> i'm about to write some LWP::UserAgent thing that will do automated testing of this. can't I set it to not follow redirects?
23:23  * perlDreamer shrugs "I don't know"
23:23 <+perlDreamer> But recommends using Test::WWW::Mech instead
23:23 <+perlDreamer> or Apache::Test
23:24 < Samus_Aran> back for another day of WebGUI battling, hehe
23:24 <@preaction> POST is not supposed to even BE redirectable... and there is a single HTTP code that says "Don't forward the POST, just use a GET on the URL I give you."
23:24 <@preaction> i'm using that HTTP code now, and it doesn't work
23:27 < nuba> preaction: $ua->simple_request will not follow redirects
23:27 <@preaction> yeah, i'm getting Test::WWW::Mech now to see if it has a similar functionality
23:28 < nuba> and you can make post redirectable with push @{ $ua->requests_redirectable }, 'POST';
23:28 <@preaction> that's probably only when using request(), doing the transparent redirecting thing
23:28 < nuba> WWW;:Mech should have, as its just LWP::UserAgent subclassed iirc
23:29 < nuba> never looked at Test::WWW::Mech tho
23:30 < Samus_Aran> hm.  it seems like the slow motion thing is rather unpredictable.  it was happening yesterday from work for a bit, then was fine the rest of the day.  at home, it was super slow.  now back at work today, it's very fast again (without touching spectre or anything)
23:32 < nuba> gremlins
23:33 < nuba> dont request any rss feed past midnight, and keep the box away from water
23:39  * Samus_Aran loved Gremlins
23:39 < Samus_Aran> I had a stuffed mogwai when I was a kid, very cute
23:40 < Samus_Aran> I think a dog ate it
23:41 < klnielsen> Ok, one more stupid question, sorry.  I can't seem to add a subscription to a calendar.  I type in a url (.ics) and nothing shows up.  I also remember seeing something about Spectre not running currently, but I don't remember where, nor do I remember where the neat start/stop/restart page for mysql/spectre/etc is.  It was there when I was installing, but that was Friday and so long ago.
23:41  * klnielsen 's dogs eat everything
23:42 < nuba> klnielsen: spectre is what will retrieve the ics file for your calendar
23:42 < nuba> spctre does the fetching, mail dispathing, housekeeping, etc
23:42 < klnielsen> ack.  so how do I make sure that spectre is running?
23:42 < nuba> spectre*
23:42 < klnielsen> What a good ghost it is.
23:42 < klnielsen> :D
23:42 < nuba> you on the WRE? 
23:43 < nuba> for me its a /data/wre/sbin/rc.webgui startspectre
23:43 < nuba> and to check if its running, cd /data/WebGUI/sbin ; . /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment ; perl spectre.pl --status
23:44 < nuba> to test spectre: perl spectre.pl --status
23:44 < klnielsen> I don't have rc.webgui in /data/wre/sbin
23:44 <@apeiron> /data/wre/sbin/wreservice.pl --start spectre
23:44 < nuba> oh i forgot to add, this is in a 0.7 WRE
23:45 <+perlDreamer> nuba: you need to update :)
23:45 < klnielsen> I installed fresh last friday... 
23:46 < nuba> will do, as soon as work plate gets cleaned up...
23:47 < klnielsen> ack.  That explains it. connection refused on 32133.  But why?
23:47 -!- dionak [n=dkidd@adsl-072-149-129-114.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
23:48 <+perlDreamer> klnielsen: Are you using SELinux perhaps?  Or some other firewall?
23:49 < Samus_Aran> klnielsen: first off, try restarting Apache
23:49 < klnielsen> actually, it is blocked
23:49 < klnielsen> crap
23:49 < Samus_Aran> mine keeps getting bugged out and won't connect until I restart Apache
23:50 <@preaction> would it be a problem if WebGUI sent a 301 status for every type of redirect?
23:51 < klnielsen> I forgot that this is in the sharenet (a walled-off portion of our intranet)
23:51 < klnielsen> sorry for all the hubbub
23:52 < nuba> preaction: 301 is cacheable, once redirected, the browser wont ask for it again
23:52 < nuba> 302 is temporary, in the sense that the redirect can change, so the browser will ask for it again next time
23:52 < nuba> 301 = moved permanently, 302 = found
23:53 <@preaction> right, but 301 means "re-send the POST to the new address"
23:53 <@preaction> 303 means "just make a Get request to the new address, do not re-send the post'
23:53 <@preaction> i want 303
23:54 < Samus_Aran> anyone have any idea why the news section on my WebGUI says "4 replies" and then when you click on it, there is only one reply ?
23:54 <+perlDreamer> klnielsen: You can always change the port, that's a completely arbitrary number
23:54 <+perlDreamer> it has to be changed in BOTH spectre.conf and the webgui.conf file for your site
23:55 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@245.sub-75-205-172.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:55 < klnielsen> ok, thanks for that info.
23:55 <+perlDreamer> Samus_Aran: Cutting, pasting and deleting posts may throw the count off.
23:55 <+perlDreamer> so can uncommitted or archived posts
23:55 <+perlDreamer> _I think_
23:56 < nuba> preaction: rfc2616 says " Many pre-HTTP/1.1 user agents do not understand the 303 status etc. etc."
23:57 < nuba> you may want to check the contemporary meaning of "Many pre-HTTP/1.1 user agents"
23:57 < nuba> if any is still around ;)
23:57 <@preaction> it also says they treat them like 302, which it also says most UAs treat like 303 (IE no re-POST)
23:58 < nuba> yep
23:58 <@preaction> i'm still getting 301, so the point is really moot...
23:58 < nuba> you changed it and is still getting 301?
23:58 < nuba> maybe the browser cached it then
23:58 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []
23:59 <@preaction> no, i didn't restart. i fixed it in Session::Http->sendHeader
23:59 <@preaction> which, for some reason, doesn't allow you to set your own status code for the redirect
23:59 < nuba> you'd probably need to restart the browser if it cached the 301 redirect
--- Day changed Wed Feb 13 2008
00:07 < perlmonkey2> Why would the doman/../public/uploads directory be owned by nobody if apache needs to write to it?
00:07 <+perlDreamer> apache's user is nobody?
00:07 <+perlDreamer> by default
00:08 < perlmonkey2> oh, not on my machine :)
00:08 <+perlDreamer> except for WRE
00:08 <+perlDreamer> If that's a page of wiki instructions, please feel free to edit them to make them more generic
00:08 < perlmonkey2> I have a meeting in a few, but I'll do that when I get back...../me notes to himself to participate more.
00:09 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2: You do tons already by hanging out here and doing the survey.
00:10 < perlmonkey2> I have a lot to learn about WG before I can attache my survey code to a functioning WG backend.
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00:16 < Samus_Aran> perlDreamer: it seems strange that it is keeping track of the replies manually, rather than simply querying the database
00:17 < Samus_Aran> it only displays one reply, it should be doing the same query that comes up with the one reply
00:17 <@rizen> it caches them for speed
00:21 < CIA-20> WebGUI: colin * r5420 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm: add more POD to www_add
00:22 -!- wgGuest78 [n=wgGuest7@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has joined #webgui
00:22 < wgGuest78> hello
00:22 < wgGuest78> i have a question related to the colaboration systems
00:23 <+perlDreamer> whing it on out, wgGuest78
00:23 <+perlDreamer> nuba!
00:23 <+perlDreamer> Before I forget, the i18n system still has the old help in it
00:23 <+perlDreamer> it doesn't have to be translated
00:23 <+perlDreamer> I'm going work on pruning that out this afternoon
00:24 < wgGuest78> I want to edit the default submission template and to pass the attachement loop to weblog template
00:24 < nuba> oh
00:24 < wgGuest78> is it posible?
00:24 < nuba> i translated a few of those this past weekend...
00:24 < nuba> where is it going?
00:24 <+perlDreamer> away
00:24 <+perlDreamer> removed
00:24 <+perlDreamer> echado
00:24 < nuba> would it happen its been replaced by wiki?
00:25 <+perlDreamer> a snapshot was taken and dumped into the wiki, yes
00:25 <+perlDreamer> but only in English
00:25 < nuba> well, non-english speaking users are going to need their help somewhere :/ ..
00:26 <+perlDreamer> yes :(
00:26 < nuba> is any strategy to preserve the existence of non-english help somewhere?
00:27 < Samus_Aran> rizen: you mean, it caches them for inaccuracy.  is there some way I can get it to stop caching them ?
00:27 < nuba> or are W3 sites supposed to work it out by themselves?
00:27 < nuba> is there*
00:28 <+perlDreamer> nuba: You'd really need to ask rizen.  However, the i18n is in SVN now, so once it is pruned out, it's not gone forever.
00:28 <@rizen> i wasn't here when you were talking about the problem in the beginning, but the solution is to fix whatever caused them to be inaccurate in the first place, not to eliminate the cache
00:28 < nuba> rizen: is there any exit strategy for the internationalized help besides /dev/null ?
00:28 < Samus_Aran> I mean, when it ends up inaccurate, how can someone tell WebGUI to recalculate it ?
00:29 < Samus_Aran> it looks quite unprofessional to the people I demo to that the very first news item is giving off incorrect information
00:29 <@rizen> that depends upon where the inaccuracy is
00:29 <@rizen> like i said, i wasn't here for that part of the conversation
00:30 <+perlDreamer> you didn't miss anything there, rizen
00:30 <@rizen> ok then tell me how it got inaccurate in the first place?
00:30 <@rizen> did somebody do some db manipulation?
00:30 <@rizen> or is it the result of a bug?
00:31  * nuba .o0O( gremlins )
00:31 <@rizen> nuba: currently no plan...thinking about allowing internationalized wiki entries at wiki.plainblack.com
00:31 <@rizen> thats' the only thing i can think of
00:34 < nuba> perlDreamer: i've exported the current translation, so if you prune it I still have the content here
00:34 <+perlDreamer> nuba, it's still in SVN, even if I prune it
00:34 < nuba> true
00:34 <+perlDreamer> I wouldn't purposely throw out reams of someone's hard work.
00:34 <+perlDreamer> Even mine, since I wrote a big chunk of the English Help :)
00:35 < nuba> rizen: i will add a wiki w/ the translated help to webgui.com.br once I get it back up
00:35 < nuba> rizen: what should happen at some point in the near future
00:35 < wgGuest78> perlDreamer, I want to edit the default submission template and to pass the attachement loop to weblog template.  Can i do it?
00:35 < nuba> rizen: btw whats the status of W3, as a project?
00:36 <+perlDreamer> wgGuest78: Do you mean "copy and paste the attachment loop from the default submission template to the weblog template?"
00:36 <@rizen> W3 died long ago, and this summer i rebuilt it as www.webguiworldwide.org
00:36 <@rizen> which is just a conglomeration of webgui related sites
00:36 < wgGuest78> yes
00:36 < wgGuest78> correct
00:36 <@rizen> which may or may not be translated into other languages
00:37 <@rizen> if webgui.com.br isn't in there you should definitely get it added
00:37 <+perlDreamer> Then, yes, I believe so.  Be sure you make a copy of the original weblog submission template and to use it, since future upgrades may overwrite your changes.
00:38 < wgGuest78> i did it, but did not work
00:39 < nuba> webgui.com.br is dead, needs to be relaunched at least as a thin site w/ a board, translation and wiki
00:39 <+perlDreamer> did you commit the template, and then tell your CS to use the new template, and then commit it, too?
00:40 <+perlDreamer> wait a sec.
00:40 <+perlDreamer> No, that won't work.
00:40 <+perlDreamer> the templates have different sets of variables.
00:40 <+perlDreamer> The weblog template is for displaying entries
00:41 -!- wgGuest78 [n=wgGuest7@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has quit []
00:41 <+perlDreamer> the Submission template is for making entries.
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00:44 < wgGuest33> perlDreamer, excuseme i have a problem with my internet.  Can you repeat me again your anwser about my question related to copy code from default submission and paste it in weblog template?
00:44 <+perlDreamer> It won't work
00:44 <+perlDreamer> the templates have different sets of variables.
00:44 <+perlDreamer> The weblog template is for displaying entries
00:45 <+perlDreamer> the Submission template is for making entries.
00:45 < wgGuest33> it not posible that it woks
00:45 <+perlDreamer> Na va a funciona, ni un poquito.
00:45 <+perlDreamer> It won't work.
00:46 < wgGuest33> do you speak spanish?
00:46 <+perlDreamer> Somewhat.  Just common spanish, nothing technical.
00:47 < wgGuest33> ok,
00:47 < wgGuest33> gracias
00:47 <+perlDreamer> De nada
00:47 <+perlDreamer> Si es algo que queries en WebGUI, puedes hacer un "request" aqui:
00:48 < nuba> its only after you write a bot to monitor wiki activity that you notice how little activity there is going on..
00:48 <+perlDreamer> http://www.webgui.org/rfe
00:49 < wgGuest33> gracias perlDreamer, lo tendré en cuenta
00:52 -!- wgGuest33 [n=wgGuest3@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has quit []
00:53 < nuba> for the latest 50 activities at the wiki, ~34 were by koen, elnino, knowmad and faino
00:54 < nuba> only 13 people total
00:55 < nuba> details http://webgui.pastebin.com/m7867c38f
00:57 <@rizen> nuba..you should write some patches for the wiki to make it easier to expose that sort of stuff
00:57 <@rizen> maybe RSS feeds or XML or JSON or something
00:57 <@rizen> i'll accept them
00:57 <+perlDreamer> wiki statistics
00:57 <+perlDreamer> Most frequent creators, most frequent editors
00:57 < Samus_Aran> rizen: to answer your Q, the "Replies" listed on a news item got out of whack.  it says there are 4 replies when there are 1.  no manual db manipulation, just adding/removing/changing template/deleting replies and news items
00:58 <@rizen> yeah, but not just a page that displays it, but also feeds that can be used for external data manipulation
00:58 < nuba> we discussed exposing the wiki's recent changes with RSS then with JSON yesterday
00:58 <@rizen> Samus_Aran: what version were you running when this problem occured?
00:59 <@rizen> nuba: cool...i'm just letting you know in advance that i'd approve any such patches automatically
00:59 < nuba> great
00:59 <@rizen> i think they're all great ideas
01:00 < nuba> i hope that, with debian increasing webgui exposure, we'll see some growth in community activity soon
01:00 < Samus_Aran> latest stable
01:01 <@preaction> i wasn't planning on using the wiki itself, but just making another template and using a shortcut
01:01 < Samus_Aran> rizen: latest stable, manual install on Ubuntu 6.06 LTS
01:02 <@rizen> samus_aran: do you mean latest stable when you had the problem, or the current latest stable?
01:02 <@rizen> if you mean current then submit a bug report about it
01:02 <@rizen> and we'll get the problem fixed
01:03 <@rizen> nuba: the trade shows we're attending should help too...did you read today's black blog?
01:03 <+perlDreamer> Samus_Aran: but we'll need to know how to reproduce the problem
01:03 <@preaction> Samus_Aran, are those replies in the Trash?
01:03 < Samus_Aran> latest stable as of Thursday last week.  have there been any releases since then ?
01:03 < Samus_Aran> preaction: I don't think so.  will check
01:03 <@rizen> no new releases since then
01:04 < nuba> rizen: checked it now, good news
01:05 < nuba> pics appear only when I click on "comment (0)" 
01:05 <@rizen> yup
01:07 < nuba> i know its nitpicking, but having pics behind such link - comments (0) - is a bit counter intuitive, unless you actually did read the text entirely and paid attention that there are pics somewhere to be seen.
01:07 < nuba> and most people just scan their way thru the texts
01:08 <@rizen> don't care
01:08 <@rizen> for people that are just scanning and not reading, the pictures out of context won't make sense anyway
01:08 <@rizen> plus most people will find the black blog through the news or from an rss feed
01:08 <@rizen> which will take you directly to the post
01:09 <@rizen> which contains the pics
01:09  * perlDreamer thinks the title should link to the whole article.
01:09 < nuba> heh i happen to be the minority that checks www.plainblack.com/black-blog directly
01:09 < nuba> in the minority*
01:14 < Samus_Aran> preaction: sorry for the delay, no, there's nothing in the trash
01:16  * rizen hates perlDreamer for being annoyingly correct
01:19 <+perlDreamer> I'm your conscience, rizen
01:20 <+perlDreamer> p.s. Don't forget to buy Sarah roses for Valentine's Day.
01:20 <+perlDreamer> and cook her breakfast in bed
01:24 <@rizen> already got her 2 lbs of customized hershey's chocolate, and sent it to her work so that she gets lots of co-worker attention, which she really craves
01:26 <@rizen> btw...i encourage you guys to check out gooey on the go...added a lot more gooey pics from scale
01:26 <@preaction> okay. so now I'm thinking that both Firefox and Safari are mishandling my 303 Response and re-sending the POST to the redirect's Location
01:26 <@rizen> what is a 303?
01:26 <@preaction> because it can't be Apache
01:26 <@preaction> 303 is See Other
01:26 <@rizen> interesting...haven't heard of that before
01:26 <@preaction> it's supposed to function thus: you 
01:26 <@preaction> POST your login; it sents a 303 Redirect and you simply GET the location, not re-post
01:27 <@preaction> like a 301 redirect is supposed to do
01:27 <+perlDreamer> nice pictures :)
01:27 <@rizen> did you try it with a 301 first
01:27 <@preaction> 301 is what webgui sends all redirects as, until i changed it because i thought that was the problem
01:28 <@preaction> i changed it to accept setStatus like I thought it would
01:28 <@rizen> maybe your browser doesn't know what to do with 303
01:28 <@rizen> so you should just stick with 301
01:29 <@preaction> i'll try 301 with LWP::UserAgent, but LWP::UserAgent does the right thing (the thing I expect) when it's a 303 response. if it does the right thing on a 301 response i'm going to start hurting things
01:32 <@preaction> ok, weird things going on now, but i have something to work with (7 redirects in a row for some reason...)
01:33 < nuba> preaction: 7 redirects in a row is the hard limit set on LWP::UserAgent
01:34 < nuba> if youre getting 7 then its most like because LWP::UserAgent didnt follow the 8th
01:37 <@preaction> it's probably a loop because it keeps re-posting the form because it's 301
01:37 < nuba> http://search.cpan.org/~gaas/libwww-perl-5.805/lib/LWP/UserAgent.pm#$ua-%3Emax_redirect(_$n_)
01:37 <@preaction> posting a form with a returnUrl gets you redirected to the url in returnUrl, 301-style. then the new url you're at reads the form (which contains a login POST), logs you in, and returns you to the returnUrl
01:38 < nuba> preaction: if its of any use to you, when dealing with headers I use firefox's livehttpheaders extension a lot
01:38 <@preaction> yeah, livehttpheaders doesn't show any of these redirects
01:38 < nuba> good for capturing, replays, tweaks, etc
01:41 < nuba> you've seen this one, right? http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec10.html
01:41 <@preaction> it appears that the status code isn't the only thing that's relevant. the status description is also parsed
01:43 <@preaction> if I send 301 Moved Permanently, I break WebGUI. if I just send 301 Redirect, everything works
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01:46 < Samus_Aran> why is there no sitemap in WebGUI ?  it simply uses the menu, which doesn't even display the page titles
01:46 < Samus_Aran> I thought I remembered an actual sitemap in 4.x, though I'm not sure
01:46 <+perlDreamer> Samus_Aran: It's just a navigation asset, with a specific template.
01:47 < Samus_Aran> perlDreamer: which is my point.  a sitemap should have more than just the menu items
01:47 <+perlDreamer> then use a different template than the default :)
01:47 < Samus_Aran> at the very least the page titles, possibly the date the page was updated and by who
01:48 <+perlDreamer> I'm not sure that those are possible with the Navigation Asset, you'd have to check the online help for that list.
01:48 < Samus_Aran> perlDreamer: I didn't see any template that would display titles
01:48 <@preaction> he meant make your own
01:48 <+perlDreamer> you _can_ add new templates?
01:48 < Samus_Aran> and a few of the ones I did try were broken so that I had to click back to even use the site anymore.  like the horizontal menu one, had no edit controls anymore
01:48 <+perlDreamer> preaction: Get out of my head, you HTTP header hacker!
01:49 <+perlDreamer> horizontal menu is for site navigation, not sitemaps
01:49 < Samus_Aran> preaction: I realise I can add one, but what I don't understand is why there is no sitemap in WebGUI after almost a decade
01:49 < Samus_Aran> preaction: I was trying each to see what they looked like
01:49 < Samus_Aran> *perlDreamer
01:50 <+perlDreamer> If you'd like to contribute a beautiful sitemap template, it could be added.
01:50 <+perlDreamer> and there did use to be a sitemap asset in wG 5
01:50 < nuba> Samus_Aran: the old sitemap is easily replaced with the new navigation 
01:50 <@preaction> Samus_Aran, there is a site map that people use and find adequate. just because it is not adequate to you does not mean that WebGUI is inherently broken. this is an open-source project, patches are welcome.
01:51 < Samus_Aran> does the menu asset thing currently being used provide the variable for the page title ?
01:51 <+perlDreamer> Samus_Aran: ?op=viewHelp
01:51 <@rizen> they all provide the variable for not only page title
01:51 <@rizen> but date revized, created, synopsis and more
01:51 <@rizen> methinks you don't want help...you want someone to do it for you
01:52 <+perlDreamer> to be precise: http://www.webgui.org/wg/contribute?op=viewHelp;hid=navigation%20template;namespace=Asset_Navigation
01:56 < Samus_Aran> rizen: no, I am currently creating a site map template.  I found the page.menuTitle and am checking what to change it to
01:57 < Samus_Aran> which is in the URL perlDreamer provided.  thank you
01:57 <+perlDreamer> Samus_Aran: If you poke around in the wiki, and in the online Help that comes with WebGUI, you'll find a lot of useful info.
01:59 <+perlDreamer> after I win the lottery, I need to learn javascript and then write the template editor with smart variable insertion.
01:59 < nuba> that'd be interesting. expose JSON instead of processing, then fill in the DOM
02:00 < Samus_Aran> it's starting to look like a site map.  just need to drop a few more variables in
02:00 < nuba> i wonder if thats really practical
02:00 <+perlDreamer> It may just be a MCE plugin
02:01 <+perlDreamer> that lets you pick from a list of available variables
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02:01 <+perlDreamer> if it was smart, it would add in template end tags automatically
02:01 < nuba> you could just as well change templates on the fly
02:01 < Samus_Aran> except the template editing page doesn't display the original page anymore
02:02 <+perlDreamer> if it was really smart, it would be context sensitive and change the set of variables depending on if you're inside loops or not.
02:02 < Samus_Aran> (unless you're editing a template for the template editing page)
02:03 < nuba> going offline, nite guys
02:06 < Samus_Aran> where does the data in page.synopsis come from ?
02:06 <+perlDreamer> from the synopsis entry in the Asset
02:06 < Samus_Aran> I don't recall seeing one of those.  *goes to look more closely*
02:07 <+perlDreamer> excuse me, it's the "summary" entry
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02:07 < Samus_Aran> okay
02:08 <+Radix-wrk> mornin' all :)
02:08 <+perlDreamer> Yo, Radix-wrk.
02:15 < Samus_Aran> why did WebGUI choose to use JS for opening pages in new windows, rather than a frameset control [which works in all browsers]
02:15 < Samus_Aran> + ?
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02:17 <@preaction> target="" is not XHTML 1.0 Strict compliant
02:17 < Samus_Aran> perlDreamer: that page you gave me doesn't list a last modified date.  is this variable available from somewhere else, or just not exist ?
02:17 < Samus_Aran> preaction: the most common web browser (MSIE) does not support XHTML
02:18 <@preaction> we don't fix IE bugs
02:18 < Samus_Aran> 4.01 Transitional makes a lot more sense
02:18 <@preaction> i'd rather not get into yet another philosophical debate about HTML and XHTML. #css is a much better channel for those
02:19 < Samus_Aran> if a textual user agent tries to use the site and reaches one of those links, they will see <a href="#"> which is completely broken for them
02:19 < Samus_Aran> you mean #web
02:19 <@preaction> i agree that XHTML 1.0 Strict is not the optimal doctype for anything. I would prefer WebGUI to use HTML 4.01 Strict
02:19 < Samus_Aran> CSS is for CSS
02:19 <@preaction> no. i mean the happy people at #css love these kind of debates
02:19 < Samus_Aran> *#CSS is for CSS
02:19 < Samus_Aran> oh
02:19 < Samus_Aran> I've never been in there
02:19 < Samus_Aran> I am talking about end user functionality
02:20 < Samus_Aran> MSIE doesn't support XHTML at all.  user agents without Javascript can not use the site
02:22 < Samus_Aran> is it not possible to at least use the URL in the JS link, so that non-JS aware browsers will go to it in the current page (which is what happens with non-frameset aware browsers with target="") ?
02:22 < Samus_Aran> something like <a href="http://real_url/" onClick...>
02:23 < Samus_Aran> I tend to avoid JS, and especially avoid opening links in new windows, so I'm not too sure if that can work or not
02:23 <@preaction> once again: this is not the place to request features
02:25 < Samus_Aran> that was a question there
02:29 <+perlDreamer> Samus_Aran: The navigation asset doesn't have such a variable right now.  If you'd like one, please submit an RFE.
02:31 < Samus_Aran> perlDreamer: okay, thank you
02:31 < CIA-20> WebGUI: colin * r5421 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Navigation.pm: clarify that synopsis==summary
02:31 <+perlDreamer> It's a pretty simple one to add, I wouldn't doubt that it would be approved.
02:32 < Samus_Aran> I tried adding the page.synopsis to a title="" for the <a> tag, but it is popping up the name of the variable.  is there something a variable needs to be contained inside ?
02:33 < Samus_Aran> oh sorry <tmpl_var >
02:33 < Samus_Aran> missed that with all the < > around there
02:34 <+perlDreamer> title="<tmpl_var page.synopsis>" should work fine
02:34 <+perlDreamer> if it doesn't please submit a bug report, or, you could try the Design Forum on pb.com
02:35 < Samus_Aran> it's working fine
02:35 < Samus_Aran> I just missed that it needed a container
02:36 < Samus_Aran> it pops up a description of the page in the sitemap, if one is available
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02:52 < danny_mk> Hello everyone
02:52 < danny_mk> is there a way to pass parameters to a url in a http proxy?
02:55 < danny_mk> url to proxy:  http://www.mywebsite.com/^FormParam('id');
02:57 <@preaction> http://webgui.pastebin.com/d3c3ef1bf <- here are the headers from the request chain that I set off
02:58 <@preaction> the returnUrl is sent with the POST data, but the Location header from the response is completely wrong
02:58 <@preaction> it's not the Location that my debug code tells me is being sent
02:59 <@preaction> i'm beginning to wonder if it's somehow due to keep-alive reusing the WebGUI session
03:00 <@preaction> because my script that uses LWP::UserAgent to send the same request does the right thing
03:02 <@preaction> but it can't be that because WRE's mod_perl turns off KeepAlive
03:16 <@preaction> it seems to happen if I send a redirect to the same location
03:22 < Samus_Aran> I just added a reply to a comment on the news items (the one where it shows "4 replies" for one reply), and now it shows "7 replies" for the two
03:24 < Samus_Aran> added a reply to the second reply, and it went up to "8 replies"
03:25 < Samus_Aran> it seems a single reply is worth anywhere from 1 to 4 replies for the counter
03:26 <+Radix-wrk> Sounds like a bug to me.. submit it :)
03:30 < Samus_Aran> is there a page handy explaining how to install a wgpkg ?
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03:31 <@preaction> Asset Manager there's a Packages section below the assets, there should be a form input for importing a package in there
03:31 < Samus_Aran> are they zip files (if I wanted to look at the source) ?
03:31 <+Radix-wrk> no
03:32 <@preaction> they're tar files
03:37 < danny_mk> Hi preaction
03:38 < danny_mk> got a quick question for you.
03:38 <@preaction> is it the question you asked at 18:55 about parameters to a URL in an HTTP Proxy?
03:38 < danny_mk> no
03:38 < danny_mk> it is about writting an activity
03:39 < danny_mk> I can't find any good documentation on workflow and activities
03:39 < danny_mk> but I will have to write about 12 of them
03:39 < danny_mk> is there a good example anywhere or do I have to read through the code?
03:40 <+Radix-wrk> nothing in the wiki?
03:40 < danny_mk> nope
03:40 < danny_mk> check it out
03:40 <@preaction> most likely you'll have to read through the code
03:40 < danny_mk> darn
03:41 <+Radix-wrk> there's a workflow skeleton
03:41 < danny_mk> ok
03:41 < danny_mk> I know
03:41 < danny_mk> I got that
03:42 < danny_mk> I think you mean an activity skeleton right?  I did not find any workflow skeletons 
03:43 <+Radix-wrk> yeah
03:43 <+Radix-wrk> they're one and the same I think
03:43 <@preaction> you don't write workflows. workflows are made from the user interface
03:43 <@preaction> they contain activities, which you can write
03:43 < danny_mk> that is what I thought.  I write the activity right?
03:43 < danny_mk> ok
03:44 < danny_mk> however, how do I run the activity at a certain time
03:44 < danny_mk> don't I use the workflow for that?
03:44 <@preaction> you create a workflow that has that activity
03:44 < danny_mk> and that is where I get lost
03:45 < danny_mk> OK, once I ad my own activity and include it in my config file
03:45 <+Radix-wrk> Workflows can run multiple activities
03:45 < danny_mk> then the activity should show up when I create a new workflow
03:45 < danny_mk> right?
03:46 <+Radix-wrk> yep
03:46 < danny_mk> cool.  OK, got it.
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03:47 < danny_mk> how about the http proxy question?
03:47 < danny_mk> not to push my luck to much :-)
03:48 < danny_mk> there is no way to pass it parameters huh?
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05:56 <@preaction> lesson learned today: Redirecting an HTTP UA to the same URL as you POSTed to will POST again regardless of the redirect status code
05:57 <@preaction> so can anyone think of any possible way that making all default login forms POST to the root of the site would backfire on me?
05:57 <@preaction> i'm going to be writing a bunch of WWW::Mech tests to make sure, of course
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09:29 < CIA-20> WebGUI: graham * r5422 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/docs/upgrades/_upgrade.skeleton: Merge 7.5 upgrade skeleton changes
09:29 < CIA-20> WebGUI: graham * r5423 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Start of 7.4.23 dev
09:29 < CIA-20> WebGUI: graham * r5424 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fix CalendarUpdateFeeds causing warnings in logs
09:29 < CIA-20> WebGUI: graham * r5425 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (6 files in 4 dirs): package importing fixes
09:29 < CIA-20> WebGUI: graham * r5426 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/VersionTag.pm): fix rolling back version tags with an asset with a later revisionDate than a child
09:29 < CIA-20> WebGUI: graham * r5427 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/docs/ (3 files in 3 dirs): added tab fields to dataform default email template
09:29 -!- Radix-wrk changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.23-stable | WRE 0.8.1 ] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org | Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com/ | WebGUI to be included in default Debian distribution
09:29 < CIA-20> WebGUI: graham * r5428 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (lib/WebGUI/Macro/AdminToggle.pm docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt): fix: don't show Admin mode toggle when not in adminModeSubnets
09:29 < CIA-20> WebGUI: graham * r5429 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.4.23 release
09:29 < CIA-20> WebGUI: jt * r5430 /releases/WebGUI_7.4.23-stable: Release 7.4.23-stable
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15:56 < nuba> is anyone already playing with the gallery asset?
15:56 < nuba> i cant find where to add albums
16:00 < nuba> hm, manually appending 'func=add;class=WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::GalleryAlbum' to my gallery asset's URL
16:05 < BartJol> ah, i should know, I've made the translations
16:05 < BartJol> but, since that is a mindless job, I don't have it right away
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16:31 < BartJol> nuba, i found this variable for the adding of an album: helpvar url_addAlbum
16:32 < BartJol> but I don't have 7.5 installed, so I can't look for it
16:32 < nuba> thx BartJol. now I wonder if this gallery is currently usable at all or if im doing something wrong
16:33 < BartJol> well, sometimes the wobject had to be submiited via the version tag first, before items can be added to it, have you submitted the version tag?
16:33 < SDuensin> Morning.
16:33 < BartJol> morning
16:34 < nuba> im running SVN HEAD, maybe I should go back to the 7.5.1 release to test this..
16:34 < BartJol> I wouldn't know... sorry
16:35 < nuba> np, thx for the pointer anyway
16:49 < Radix__> cool util - http://www.yougetsignal.com/tools/web-sites-on-web-server/
16:49 < Radix__> I found JT's RareBlack.com server :)
16:55 < nuba> nice
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17:41 < perlmonkey2> Anyone else use lifera?  I can never get it to update the tbb.
17:55 -!- wgGuest57 [n=wgGuest5@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has joined #webgui
17:56 < wgGuest57> hello
17:56 < wgGuest57> 	
17:58 < perlmonkey2> hello
17:58 < perlmonkey2> wgGuest57: howdy howdy
17:59 < wgGuest57> ?
17:59 < wgGuest57> how to do for i get a data from the database in a macro?
18:00 < perlmonkey2> from WG tables or your own custom tables?
18:01 < wgGuest57> of webgui
18:01 < perlmonkey2> the AOIRank Macro is a great example of a simple DB query to WG tables.
18:02 < wgGuest57> thanks
18:02 < perlmonkey2> de nada
18:03 < wgGuest57> me sirve mucho
18:03 < wgGuest57> porque no sabia el link
18:03 < wgGuest57> y necesitaba un ejemplo
18:03 < wgGuest57> gracias
18:05 < perlmonkey2> ah....My Espanol is extremely pico
18:05 < perlmonkey2> sabia?
18:05 < perlmonkey2> ejemplo?
18:05 < perlmonkey2> I'll use a translator :D
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18:07 < wgGuest57> sabia = know
18:07 < wgGuest57> ejemplo = example
18:07 < BartJol> hi rizen thanks for the mail to Koen :)
18:08 <@rizen> np
18:08 < perlmonkey2> wgGuest57: just got that from babelfish :)  Glad I could help (and I really need to study my Spanish more).
18:10 < wgGuest57> i could you helps with spanish
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18:12 < perlmonkey2> I think the kind of help I need requires long hours spent at an online tutorial.  
18:12 < perlmonkey2> I remember most of the rules, but I have forgotten a lot of nouns and verbs.
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18:15 < wgGuest83> test
18:15 < perlmonkey2> 123
18:17 < wgGuest83> Is there any way to setup webgui to clean cache automatically
18:17 < wgGuest57> jajaja
18:17 < wgGuest57> yes
18:17 < wgGuest83> how
18:17 < wgGuest57> yo creo = i think so
18:17 < ckotil> you can schedule a workflow to do it
18:18 < ckotil> or add a cronjob to delete /tmp/filecache (not sure if this is where it actually resides)
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18:25 < BartJol> oh and besides my horrible image editing, this is what I have in mind for the webguiunderwear:
18:25 < BartJol> http://bart.procolix.com/presentatie-webgui-borrel-20080214/andere-toekomst/vragen
18:26 < BartJol> fluffy wastbands are a must
18:26 <@rizen> that's just nasty
18:27 < BartJol> yeah, i said, my image editing is horrible
18:27 < BartJol> I will try to make a female version too
18:28 < BartJol> that might be less appaling
18:28 < perlmonkey2> BartJol: That is *awesome*!
18:28 < BartJol> thanks
18:29 < CIA-20> WebGUI: graham * r5431 /WebGUI/docs/ (3 files in 3 dirs): really added tab fields to dataform default email template
18:29 < CIA-20> WebGUI: graham * r5432 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/ (2 files in 2 dirs): oops
18:29 < CIA-20> WebGUI: jt * r5433 /translations/ (230 files in 23 dirs): fixing problems
18:29 < CIA-20> WebGUI: jt * r5434 /translations/polish: fixing problems
18:33 < BartJol> but I have to go now
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18:39 <@rizen> nuba: you got your wish, gooey is now on the front page of webgui.org
18:39 <+perlDreamer> aw, and he's blushing because we caught him coming out of the shower with his towel on
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18:42 <@apeiron> I hereby volunteer to be the winged toga-wearing gooey mascot at the next WUC.
18:43 <+perlDreamer> I second the motion (to avoid volunteering myself)
18:43 <@rizen> i hereby volunteer perlDreamer to be the cthulu gooey mascot at the next wuc
18:44  * perlDreamer resolves not to shave and to die himself green from head to toenails
18:44 <@rizen> http://www.plainblack.com/extras/macro/GooeyDate/halloween.gif
18:44 < perlmonkey2> heh
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18:47 < wgGuest24> hello
18:47 < wgGuest24> There is some function in webgui I handed the key of the user, which is encrypted and stored in the database?
18:47 <+perlDreamer> yes
18:48 < nuba> when i first saw the halloween version of gooey in the webgui chinese site, i thought it was an hybrid of gooey and a chinese dragon
18:48 < wgGuest24> what?
18:49 < nuba> rizen: cool about gooey there
18:49 < wgGuest24> the password, i mean identifier of table authentication
18:49 <+perlDreamer> yes, it's stored as a base64 MD5 hash
18:50 < wgGuest24> yes, i know, but i need in a macro,
18:51 < wgGuest24> in webgui there some functon that do this?
18:51 < wgGuest24> or i have to construct?
18:51 <+perlDreamer> It's a simple 1-line call : $encryptedPassword = Digest::MD5::md5_base64($password);
18:52 <+perlDreamer> So you'll have to do it yourself, but it's very easy to do.
18:53 <+perlDreamer> You should also check the wiki for a tutorial on how to build macros.
18:54 < nuba> btw i think when I was reading this past month's channel log, someone said you cannot get the password out of the MD5 hash
18:54 <+perlDreamer> well, MD5 has been cryptographically hacked, so technically you can supply a password which will match the hash, but in general, you're right
18:54 < nuba> just so you guys know, you can find a string that causes hash collision
18:55 <+perlDreamer> hashes are supposed to be 1-way functions
18:55 < nuba> depending on the size of the string, its a one day computing job
18:55 < wgGuest24> 	
18:55 < nuba> on the average joe's wprkstation
18:55 < nuba> workstation*
18:56 < nuba> i've done i once to find a 6-letter password in one of the missions at hackthissite.org
18:57 <+perlDreamer> cool
18:57 < nuba> when hackthissite.org was the new thing on the block and I used to hav free time in my hands
18:57 < nuba> have*
18:57 < nuba> looong ago
18:58 <+perlDreamer> I built a hardware SHA-1 implementation, so I've tried to follow the crypto stuff since.
18:58 <+perlDreamer> It's very fun
18:58 <+perlDreamer> but I haven't done any reverse engineering or hacking
18:58 <+perlDreamer> just reading
18:58 < wgGuest24> ?
18:58 <+perlDreamer> wgGuest24: Are you asking a new question, or didn't you see my response above?
18:59 < wgGuest24> new question
19:00 <+perlDreamer> Could you repeat it, please?
19:01 < wgGuest24> What I want to know is whether there is any function that I hand over the key of the user who is logged on, namely that I declare $identifier = ..., and Because when there is an update can change the structure of the database and can be damaged my macro function if I do this manually 
19:01 <+perlDreamer> I did answer that question above.
19:01 <+perlDreamer> It's a simple 1-line call : $encryptedPassword = Digest::MD5::md5_base64($password);
19:01 <+perlDreamer> So you'll have to do it yourself, but it's very easy to do.
19:02 <+perlDreamer> You should also check the wiki for a tutorial on how to build macros.
19:02 < wgGuest24> i know build macros, and too know digest::MD5, but then no there some way of call a function of webgui?
19:04 <+perlDreamer> Well, you'd need a User object.
19:05 <+perlDreamer> Will this macro be called on the current user, or a different one?
19:05 < wgGuest24> current
19:05 <+perlDreamer> in that case, $session->user will give you the user object that you need
19:05 < wgGuest24> yes
19:05 <+perlDreamer> $user->identifier($encryptedIdentifier)
19:05 <+perlDreamer> will change the user's password
19:06 <+perlDreamer> hang on a sec
19:06 <+perlDreamer> that's an old method
19:06 <+perlDreamer> it's going to go away
19:07 < wgGuest24> this is for validated or for change the password?
19:07 <+perlDreamer> change the password
19:07 < wgGuest24> no, i need validated, how to do?
19:08 < wgGuest24> i need compare the password
19:09 <+perlDreamer> That's a little more difficult, since WebGUI allows more than one method for validating users.
19:09 <+perlDreamer> If you'll only, ever use WebGUI authentication, it can be done.
19:09 <+perlDreamer> Why do you need to build a new/different way of validating users?
19:11 < wgGuest24> no, i need compare two password, the is in the database with other that the user write
19:12 <+perlDreamer> In WebGUI, if you don't use WebGUI authentication, or LDAP authentication, you have to build a new authentication plugin (like WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI, or WebGUI::Auth::LDAP)
19:12 < wgGuest24> then i need know if webgui have a function that gives me a pass of user
19:12 <+perlDreamer> The answer to that is no.
19:12 < wgGuest24> ok
19:12 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI only stores encrypted passwords, not plain text ones
19:12 < wgGuest24> thank
19:12 < wgGuest24> yes
19:12 < nuba> wgGuest24: You need to compare the user's password in the database with a string the user will provide?
19:13 < wgGuest24> i need the password in the database, a function that gives me this
19:13 < nuba> perlDreamer: he can compare PWDHASH = md5(string provided by the user)
19:14 < wgGuest24> yes
19:14 < nuba> where PWDHASH is the encrypted password stored in webgui's database
19:14 < wgGuest24> how to get this password Without using a query to the database directly
19:25 < nuba> Im not sure you can get the hash with the WebGUI API
19:26 < nuba> it would most likely be here if it existed http://www.webgui.org/downloads/builds/7.5.1-beta/api/User.html
19:26 <@rizen> you can't get a password because they are stored in a one way hash
19:26 < nuba> rizen: it seems he wants to one-way-hash another string and compare it with the pwd
19:28 <@rizen> you use the authenticate() method for that
19:28 <@rizen> but it won't give you the user's password hashed or not
19:28 < wgGuest24> i need compare two hash
19:28 <@rizen> it just wants you to give it the hash
19:28 <@rizen> it will do the comparison for you
19:29 < wgGuest24> i need convert the text in digest md5
19:29 <@rizen> what you want to do doesn't matter. i'm telling you that the api won't give you the password under any circumstances
19:29 < wgGuest24> i just need the password from the database whitout use a query in the macro
19:30 < nuba> wgGuest24: read about authenticate() at http://www.webgui.org/downloads/builds/7.5.1-beta/api/Auth.html
19:30 < wgGuest24> mmm, then i have to do a query
19:30 < nuba> you pass the string provided by the user to it
19:30 < nuba> and it will do the work for you
19:31 < nuba> instead of thinking what you want to implement, think about what you need to accomplish
19:34 < nuba> it seems to me with authenticate() you'll write less code and reach the same result
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19:47 < nuba> heh, interesting "CMSs in-a-nutshell" from a random guy in #javascript:
19:47 < nuba> lefnire> wordpress if you don't know shit, joomla if you are a developer handing of a client that will manage their own site from now on, drupal if you are in house developing the site but client still wants to manage their own content, django/rails if you're in house doingn all the web work
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19:52 < nuba> btw I dont endorse anything he says nor do I agree with him, just found interesting his effort to build a big picture of the CMSs araound
19:52 < nuba> around*
19:59 <@rizen> perlmonkey2: have you decided whether you can come to the wuc or not? and if so are you willing to talk about survey 2.0?
20:01 < perlmonkey2> I really am planning on it.  But I don't know when I'll be able to work on the survey.  I have a lot of the client side done, but I need to start on the server side, which means I have to learn most of the WG library.
20:01 < perlmonkey2> I've started on that, but there is a lot to learn.
20:01 < perlmonkey2> WG is huge.
20:02 < perlmonkey2> Bah, I'll be there and the survey will have a working version.  I told work I wasn't working many weeknights or weekends anymore, so I'll have time.
20:13 < klnielsen> I was wondering: I have been attempting to add an .ics feed to my calendar, but nothing shows up.  Is there a way to force an update?
20:13 < klnielsen> (Spectre is working, or running at least)
20:16 < nuba> klnielsen: can you manually retrieve the .ics and check if it is is OK?
20:16 < nuba> klnielsen: or did you check if the URL you gave WebGUI for the .ics is OK?
20:18 < klnielsen> I did
20:18 < klnielsen> I am subscribed elsewhere
20:19 < nuba> good
20:19 < nuba> found anything in your webgui.log ?
20:19 < klnielsen> ack
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20:21 < klnielsen> Cannot generate recurring events: Event has no recurrence pattern at /data/WebGui/lib/WebGui/Workflow/Activity/CalendarUpdateFeeds.pm line 394
20:24 <@rizen> perlmonkey2 that's great news
20:24 < perlmonkey2> Hopefully I can get it done in time to help out on the commerce system.
20:25 <@rizen> that would be really cool
20:25 < perlmonkey2> Looks like a lot of fun
20:32 < klnielsen> Not to sound as remedial as I am, but does the logged error above mean that WebGUI simply doesn't like recurring events?
20:33 < klnielsen> it seems odd since the option is offered if you are entering an event by hand
20:33 < klnielsen> is it the ics format?
20:34 < klnielsen> the fact that it is google-hosted?
20:34 <@rizen> it could be a bug in webgui as well
20:34 <@rizen> i don't know anything about the calendar so i shouldn't comment
20:35 < klnielsen> poop.  
20:41 <@preaction> sounds like a bug to me
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20:42 <@preaction> and i do know about the calendar. but i think graham is working on fixing that the right way soon
20:42 < klnielsen> woot
20:42 < klnielsen> thank you, sir
20:42 < klnielsen> sirs
20:42 < klnielsen> everyone
20:42 <@preaction> Haarg, how's the change to using ical recurrence patterns throughout the calendar coming?
20:45 <@Haarg> i have the recurrence stuff ripped out and replaced
20:45 <@preaction> sweet
20:46 <@Haarg> the hardest thing that i haven't dealt with yet is translating the ical to the form
20:47 <@preaction> the module doesn't help with that?
20:47 <@preaction> durn
20:47 <@Haarg> one of them might
20:47 <@preaction> no worries, just wondering
20:47 <@Haarg> the one that generates the recurrence patterns doesn't
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20:50 <@Haarg> actually, i guess i hacked out code to translate ical recurrence to what the calendar is using now
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20:51 <@Haarg> shouldn't be too hard to adapt that to generate the form instead
20:51 < klnielsen> is there another shared calendar format I can use?
20:51 < klnielsen> I think google offers a few...
20:51 < klnielsen> ical would be best, tho
20:51 <@Haarg> ical is what the calendar supports
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20:52 <+perlDreamer> So do y'all have any ideas about the perl bug that I found?
20:52 <+perlDreamer> Since it happens on two different OS'es, I was thinking I could take it back to the perl porters
20:53 <@preaction> perlDreamer, that's where i would start. or misc@perl.org perhaps?
20:53 <@preaction> if there is a misc@
20:53 <+perlDreamer> The big bummer is that when I tried to minimize the bug, it went away
20:55 <+perlDreamer> so you have to install WebGUI to debug it
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21:14 <@rizen> subversion sucks ass
21:14 <@rizen> at least trying to compile subversion sucks ass
21:14 <@rizen> i had forgotten how much i hated it
21:19 <@rizen> wow our irc wiki page is really cool
21:19 <@rizen> i hadn't read it before
21:19 <@rizen> well, at least not since i created it
21:19 < nuba> im using svk and enjoying it. keeps my depot in sync with plainblack's svn, and allows me to branch and commit my work
21:20 <@rizen> i'm compiling a new version of subversion of pb svn
21:20 < klnielsen> rizen: agreed.  I'm getting help because of it.  :)
21:20 <@rizen> can't really use svk for that
21:21 <@rizen> klnielsen: be sure to put whatever knowledge you gain into the wiki so others can bask in it's glory
21:21 <@rizen> =)
21:23 < nuba> rizen: while you're at it, can you delete this? /community-wiki/irc---webgui-channel
21:24 <@rizen> done
21:25 < nuba> thx
21:29 < perlmonkey2> In the source install guide in the wiki I want to change this "chown -Rf nobody uploads" to let people knwo that nobody should be replaced with their httpd user if it isn't nobody.  Should I just put that in parens next to it?
21:29 <@rizen> or a note above or below it
21:31 < nuba> rizen: in the 1189004211 revision of community-wiki/irc baylink added a paragraph stating the channel is not for webgui users, but for developers only. Is that accurate? Dont we want power users, non-devel-people, here too?
21:31 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: Source Install - Edited on 2/13/2008 1:21 pm by perlm  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/source-install
21:32 < nuba> perlmonkey2++
21:33 <@rizen> nuba, sure it's for anybody
21:33 <@preaction> we'll take all comers, really. there's just a limit to how much "WebGUI is broken because it doesn't do what I want how I want" that some people (myself included) will put up with
21:34  * perlmonkey2 is obviously a contributor to preaction headaches.
21:34 <@preaction> doesn't mean i'm issuing +b, but i will start /ignoring
21:34  * rizen also pisses off preaction but for different reasons
21:34 <@preaction> because jt doesn't listen when I say WebGUI is broken because it doesn't do what I want how I want
21:35 < perlmonkey2> rizen: Any chance we'll be able to play with the latest WDK soon?
21:37 <@rizen> nope
21:37 <@rizen> didn't you just hear me say that i hate subversion
21:37 < perlmonkey2> I wonder if git is any better.
21:37 <@rizen> it's not
21:38 <@rizen> and really my problem isn't with subversion, it's with swig, which is what they use for perl bindings
21:38 < perlmonkey2> Oh, subversion's WDK tie in.
21:44 < nuba> where is baylink these day? baylink = jay, right?
21:45 < nuba> days*
21:45 <@apeiron> eeeeeeew, swig
21:46 <@rizen> if you're going to ask, you should ask about someone who actually contributed to the community
21:46 <@rizen> like pederson
21:46 < nuba> yeah, from baylink.pitas.com "I'm Jay Ashworth. I've been an opinionated bastard on the net for about 12 years now, ..."
21:50 < nuba> I think that by nitpicking you he might have helped you elaborate on your ideas and on webgui's design too
21:50 < nuba> even if it wasnt a pleasant experience
21:51 <@rizen> i'm certain that every person i've come in contact with on the webgui project has influenced my decision making...however, there are certainly some that are more valuable than others
21:51 <@rizen> and he's not near the top of my list
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21:53 < nuba> bbiaw
22:03 < perlmonkey2> Does "Survey2.0" or "AJAXSurvey" sound better for the wobject name?
22:04 <@rizen> just Survey
22:04 <@rizen> cuz the old one is going away
22:04 < perlmonkey2> Okay
22:05 <@apeiron> . in package names tends to make perl go asplodey, too.
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22:15 < perlmonkey2> There isn't really any documentation on the webgui libraries, is there?  Like I'm looking at how getEditForm works, but I'm jumping around to try to piece its functionality together, which makes it hard to get the big picture.
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22:16 < wgGuest59> hello
22:16 <@preaction> perlmonkey2, the big picture is in Asset.pm->getEditForm, but you should know that if the definition has autoGenerateForms => 1, you don't need to play with getEditForm.
22:17 < wgGuest59> i have a site that when i go to the map site i obtain an error but only in internet explorer
22:17 < perlmonkey2> preaction: I'm looking through that super right now.  Just trying to see how it all works because the survey editform will have to be a custom template with a whole ton of event methods for handling client callbacks.
22:18 < perlmonkey2> Just hoping there was a "wall of text" laying it out for the simply minded :)
22:18 <@preaction> right, but it should only need that for one of the tabs, no?
22:18 <@preaction> and are you sure you want the Survey editor to be on the same page as the Asset properties?
22:18 < perlmonkey2> preaction: see, I hadn't thought of htat.
22:19 <@preaction> i worry that editing a Survey for an uncommited survey asset will be difficult
22:19 <@preaction> or rather, at the same time you create one
22:19 <+perlDreamer> like a CS, Calendar and Gallery
22:19 < perlmonkey2> well, an asset should be one survey.  And the survey's top level config is going to be all ajaxified too.
22:19 <@preaction> (when the assetId is still "new")
22:19 < perlmonkey2> preaction: okay....very good point.
22:19 <@preaction> top-level config? you mean title, description, and the like? sounds like bad juju
22:19 < perlmonkey2> no fancy smancy until it is created.
22:19 < perlmonkey2> yes
22:20 <@preaction> you can have a proceed=editSurvey in your edit form that will bring the user right to the www_editSurvey method after they click "Save" if you want
22:20 <@preaction> but i'd only do that if it's a new survey
22:21 < perlmonkey2> once the survey is created though, a lot of options will be locked, because it will break the question-answer-response model to change them.
22:21 <@preaction> or make it a select box like it is on Layout assets and Folder assets
22:21 < wgGuest59> the error is that a script is causing that internet explorer is running slowly, the pc would leave of working if the script continues running
22:21 < perlmonkey2> preaction: Okay, sold :)
22:21 < wgGuest59> do you know what is it about?
22:21 <@preaction> perlmonkey2, what if those things that would break the survey are on the editSurvey screen instead? 
22:22 < wgGuest59> because in firefox it works.
22:22 <@preaction> perlmonkey2, nm, dunno how that would work
22:22 < perlmonkey2> preaction: I see no real reason not to do that.  But it would break up the initial survey configuration into multiple screens.
22:23 < perlmonkey2> But if I don't put them on multiple pages I'll have to figure out how to lock out options in the generated tab form.
22:23 <@preaction> it is a chore, yes. but when you start storing questions/answers/sections in the database (in a collateral table i expect, not the Survey table), you're going to thank me
22:24 <@preaction> that's easy enough, make it a readonly instead of a text or select
22:26 < perlmonkey2> preaction: So I would have conditions in the definition?  Or update the properties in the editform?
22:26 <@preaction> you'd have the conditions in the getEditForm method
22:26 <@preaction> and you'd set "autoGenerate => 0" in the properties in the definition for those properties
22:27 < perlmonkey2>  if ($self->get("assetId") ne "new") {//update def properties from inputs to read only ?
22:27 <+perlDreamer> then it can never be altered/updated by the user
22:27 <@preaction> $self->getId, or if that doesn't work then $self->session->form->get('assetId'), but yes
22:27 <@preaction> you might want to do it the other way though
22:28 <@preaction> update them to be editable on creation. with sane defaults.
22:29 < perlmonkey2> preaction: Okay, let me sum up what you've advised.  I should put options that will break the user inputted question-answer model in the survey edit/creation page, and only put non-destructive options in the tabform.  But if I were to put them in the tabform, I could protect them from being altered in the way we just discussed?
22:30 <@preaction> basically, yes
22:30 <@preaction> i would advocate the first opinion though. i don't like the idea of having things you can't re-change on the asset edit screen
22:31 < perlmonkey2> Okay, I'm easily convinced.
22:31 < perlmonkey2> I'm all for best practices.
22:31 <@preaction> but then, i don't like that you can't change those survey things either. but i'm not about to second-guess your opinion
22:31 < perlmonkey2> It is intuative why they can't be changed, but I don't want to let the user shoot themselves in the foot.
22:31 <@preaction> true enough
22:39 < perlmonkey2> Okay, I think I'm getting the overall arch I'll need.  I'll use the tabforms for the survey creation and then replace the current survey's HTMLForms with templates and my JS client code.
22:40 < perlmonkey2> Too bad I can't use the HTMLForms, seems like a very slick generic asset edit templating system.
22:42 <@preaction> it's not much a template system as it is a generator
22:42 <@preaction> and you probably should use it, do you want the user to be able to edit the template of the survey editor?
22:42 < perlmonkey2> no
22:43 <@preaction> then you probably want to use HTMLForm to generate it
22:43 < perlmonkey2> Do generate the edit questions/answers and have the drag and drops, etc?
22:44 <@preaction> you can write raw HTML to an HTMLForm, if necessary
22:46 < perlmonkey2> There will only be one edit survey page.  It will be some static html/css building the layout of the page, and then a whole lot of JS.  Would the HTMLForm be better than a custom template?
22:47 < perlmonkey2> I'm not really going to be able to take advantage of anything the HTMLForm offers except the far right column options and the top halo text
22:48 <+perlDreamer> that's the Admin Console, no the HTML form
22:54 < perlmonkey2> Before I get started on this, I think it needs a lot more planning out.  I dont' want to create a one-off paradigm of doing this.  I mean, how should web2.0 interfaces be grafted into the existing standard asset editing interface?
22:55 < perlmonkey2> The current HTMLForm is for auto-generating html <input>s for needed parameters.  But the new survey will have dynamic params and need input added, deleted, updated.
22:57 <+perlDreamer> you mean like the DataForm?
22:57 < perlmonkey2> I've never looked at the dataform...I'll go look
22:58 <@rizen> perlmonkey2...you're pretty much going to need to one off it for the survey
22:58 <@rizen> and then we'll need to base our design decisions for the asset system going forward based upon what you do there
22:59 <@rizen> i know it sucks, but if you don't do it this way, you'll get mired down into a swamp from which you will never return
22:59 < perlmonkey2> I could fit it into the HTMLForm, but it would basically just be the HTMLForm wrapping everything I do in a raw call.
23:00 <@preaction> perlmonkey2, i've got some unreleased code that does a lot of javascript stuff in the Asset Edit form (no ajax, ajax can't be done in the asset edit form because the edit form is shown before the asset exists in the database)
23:00 < perlmonkey2> Okay...I think I can figure it out from here then :)
23:00 < perlmonkey2> preaction: I'd love to look at it, but the asset edit shouldn' tneed any JS now.
23:00 <@preaction> if you want an example. check out my experimental branch: https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/branch/doug-experimental
23:00 <@preaction> k
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23:23  * perlmonkey2 grumbles about going into work for a 4pm meeting when I'm all excited about actually having the client code working inside WG.  AFK for a few hours.
23:24 < wgGuest59> hello
23:25 < wgGuest59> i have some sites in webgui 7.3.22, can i update directly to the latest version or is better to upgrade first to 7.4.0?
23:27 <@preaction> 7.4.21 is the next step. the 7.5.0 and 7.4.22 upgrades won't let you upgrade from 7.3.22
23:27 < wgGuest59> i have to upgrade from 7.3.22 to 7.4.21
23:33 < wgGuest59> ok
23:33 < wgGuest59> thanks
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23:53  * klnielsen just got back from lunch to find that she has been asking n00b questions in the dev chan.  Sorry everyone!
23:53 <+perlDreamer> n00b questions are fine
23:53 <+perlDreamer> this isn't just a dev chan
23:54 <+perlDreamer> (11:33:39) preaction: we'll take all comers, really. there's just a limit to how much "WebGUI is broken because it doesn't do what I want how I want" that some people (myself included) will put up with
23:54 <+perlDreamer> And the other thing that gets our goat is people who ask questions that are answered in the online help, wiki or discussion board.
23:54 < nuba> klnielsen: i think people here would freak out if someone asked "how do I add an article? Can someone login in my site and do it for me, pretty please with sugar on top ??"
23:57 < klnielsen> I try not to be a poop-head, and to be very grateful, but I will admit to occasionally not knowing what to search for, terminology-wise.  You guys(?) are all really patient, I think.  Nothing like the happy-smiley-clubs that were the the early '90s *nix channels.
--- Day changed Thu Feb 14 2008
00:00  * perlDreamer tries not to feel old with that comment...
00:00 < nuba> heh
00:00 <+perlDreamer> ... and fails
00:00 <@preaction> yeah. those *nix channels still exist, on this network even. #openBSD is my favorite help channel to hang out in
00:01 <@preaction> they don't take any question that's in any manual or on google
00:01 <+perlDreamer> maybe we could train a bot to do that for us
00:01 <+perlDreamer> GueyOfSteel: show lazyUser Editing Templates wiki
00:04 < GooeyOfSteel> lazyUser: http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/templates-add/edit
00:04 < nuba> what the.. ?! GooeyOfSteel its A-L-I-V-E !!!
00:05 -!- CIA-20 [n=CIA@208.69.182.149] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
00:05 < nuba> guess that scared the CIA bot
00:05 <@preaction> sweet
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00:06 < wgGuest80> hello
00:07 < nuba> searching the wiki could return many hits
00:07 < nuba> if GooeyOfSteel posts a list here people will start complaining
00:08 < nuba> maybe just feeding perlbot with a few wiki-related factoids would be good enough
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00:19 <+perlDreamer> I hope you're not here to hunt me down for egregious abuse of the American language
00:19 <@preaction> oh noes!
00:19 < bopbop> no fears
00:19 < bopbop> just popping in to say hello
00:20 <+perlDreamer> How's the youngest McCombs?
00:20 < bopbop> she's great! running the house already
00:30 < klnielsen> preaction: those channels can be helpful if you are a god...  (*nix)
00:31 < klnielsen> and perlDreamer - I am sure I have you beat, age-wise.  I am the old woman at work here... and the only woman on my floor
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00:36 < BartJol> perldreamer, have you already seen my new gadget?
00:36 < BartJol> rizen calls it nasty
00:37 <+perlDreamer> BartJol: gadget?
00:37 < BartJol> yes
00:38 < BartJol> a gooey thing
00:38 <+perlDreamer> Clue me in, dude
00:38 < BartJol> http://bart.procolix.com/presentatie-webgui-borrel-20080214/andere-toekomst/vragen
00:38 < BartJol> have to mail it to Sarah
00:39 < BartJol> to convince JT
00:39 <+perlDreamer> I agree, it's nasty
00:39 <+perlDreamer> It's like the complement of the Face Hugger from Aliens
00:39 < BartJol> but a bit funny though?
00:39  * perlDreamer is very conservative
00:39 <+perlDreamer> but yes
00:40 < BartJol> not quite your style maybe
00:40 <+perlDreamer> No
00:40 < BartJol> :)
00:40 < klnielsen> It's funny :D
00:40 < klnielsen> well drawn, tho... did you do the art?
00:41 < BartJol> well, just downloaded the male figure and put the underwear on
00:41 < BartJol> I hope not to dissapoint you to much Perldreamer
00:41 <+perlDreamer> Oh no
00:41 < BartJol> maybe I've sick mind
00:42 <+perlDreamer> I've been trying to see where to order one in size large :)
00:42 <+perlDreamer> maybe he's one size fits all, with elastic arms
00:42 < BartJol> well, we should make JT to order a batch
00:42 <@rizen> um....
00:42 <@rizen> JT has already used up his marketing budget for the year
00:42 <@rizen> and his underwear budget too
00:43 <+perlDreamer> Even special purple fuzzy Gooey underwear?
00:43 < BartJol> you'll make a big progit out of it
00:43 <+perlDreamer> Just wait 'til the customers roll in from Scale.
00:43 < BartJol> sarah will like it on you, rizen
00:44 <+perlDreamer> Does it come in female version, too?
00:44 < BartJol> it will
00:45 <+perlDreamer> Can you translate the Dutch on the slide?
00:45 < BartJol> my design in any case
00:45 < BartJol> yes
00:45 < BartJol> Einde=end
00:46 < BartJol> Wie weet... = Who knows, next year a valentine-gooey
00:46 < BartJol> Vragen?= Questions
00:46 < BartJol> ?
00:46 < BartJol> the rest is just standard template content
00:47 < BartJol> not really interesting
00:48 < BartJol> but I have to go, 'm really not social right now
00:48 < BartJol> bye
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00:57 < nuba> i sense there has been some splitting in the community lately...
01:01 <+perlDreamer> nuba, per our conversation yesterday, it looks like the Help was pruned out a long time ago
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01:02 <+perlDreamer> the only extra things that I've found are old, plug_in docs for Template help
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01:02 < nuba> perlDreamer: ok, thanks for the heads up
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01:14 <+perlDreamer> perl's hash slicing syntax sucks
01:16 <@preaction> @hash{ qw( key key2 key3 ) }; # how so/
01:16 <+perlDreamer> it doesn't look like a hash anymore
01:16 <@preaction> it's not a hash, it's a hash slice
01:18 <+perlDreamer> It's not symmetrical with array slicing.  They still look like arrays, sigil wise
01:18 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5435 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Asset_SQLReport: remove some crufty files
01:18 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5436 /translations/ (55 files in 19 dirs): remove old, unused template plugin docs
01:24 <+perlDreamer> Does anyone know what the NewMail macro is about?
01:28 <@preaction> probably checking if a user has mail in their inbox
01:29 <+perlDreamer> let's see if CIA-40 pukes on that one :)
01:32 <+perlDreamer> nuba: I found the extra files, they were macro files.  So all the macro docs without pure i18n labels or template info were removed.
01:46 <+perlDreamer> and, due to a bug in my scanning script, I just found the extra entries, too
01:49 < nuba> perlDreamer: ok. any idea of when these modifications are going to appear on i18n.webgui.org ?
01:49 <+perlDreamer> Some have already been committed
01:49 <+perlDreamer> The tag removal will happen as soon as I figure out how to script it.
01:50 <+perlDreamer> The key revision is 5434
01:50 <+perlDreamer> my first rev was 5435
01:54 <+perlDreamer> hm
01:54 <+perlDreamer> it will happen as soon as rizen or maybe Haarg does an svn update for the i18n server
01:54 <+perlDreamer> so for now, all the old stuff is up there
01:55 <@rizen> it will happen when the new 7.5.2 release comes out
01:55 <@rizen> the i18n server reads out of our /data/WebGUI folder
01:56 <+perlDreamer> okay
01:56 <+perlDreamer> I was wondering, since the polish translation still exists (as opposed to Polish)
01:56 < nuba> ok
01:56 <@rizen> god damn it
01:56 <@rizen> i keep deleting it
01:56 <@rizen> and someone keeps recreating it
01:56 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5437 /translations/ (640 files in 19 dirs): remove pruned i18n files for macros and removed Assets
01:56 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5438 /translations/ (4 files in 2 dirs): remove a few other misc files
01:57 <+perlDreamer> so far i've cut out 10 MB of old, crufty i18n
01:57 <+perlDreamer> now there's only 1900 out of date entries in valid files to cut out
01:58 < nuba> what will happen if I "Commit to SVN" now ?
01:58 < nuba> create bogus entries again?
01:58 <+perlDreamer> possibly, but don't worry about it
01:58 <@rizen> commit to svn just stores the translation in svn
01:58 <@rizen> in case someone decides to deface it
01:58 <@rizen> that way we can roll back
01:59 <+perlDreamer> but the changes I've been making need to be merged back into the "master" copy
01:59 < nuba> but how about merging the changes in i18n.webgui.org with ones commited directly to the repo
01:59 < nuba> yeah
01:59  * perlDreamer suspects he just signed up for that job :/
02:00 < nuba> arent both commiting to https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/browse/translations/ ?
02:00 < nuba> looks like that to me
02:00 <+perlDreamer> yup
02:00 < nuba> Last Change: jt: update_from_translation_server
02:00 < nuba> everywhere
02:01 <@rizen> if pd has done changes in svn directly
02:01 <@rizen> and you do a commit to svn
02:01 <@rizen> it will do an update automaticallly
02:02 <+perlDreamer> what if they conflict?
02:03 <+perlDreamer> I just tried committing the Spanish translation, and it looks okay
02:04 <@rizen> if they conflict then we have a problem
02:04 <@rizen> and i have to resolve it manually
02:05 < nuba> I guess I'll just export the translation tgz and timestamp it after work sessions...
02:06 < nuba> rizen: is /tools/translationserver.cgi all I need to run a translation server locally?
02:07 <@rizen> yes, but you should not do that
02:07 <+perlDreamer> nuba: one other thing to keep in mind is that the Help files which point to the i18n don't exist anymore, either.
02:07 <+perlDreamer> so that i18n is essentially orphaned
02:07 <@rizen> having the translations out on a central server is motivational therapy for those looking to update their translations
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02:08 <@rizen> the more we have the more motivational therapy
02:08 < nuba> thats true, man. it really feelt good seeing finnish and french going up too, as I was updating BrazilianPortuguese
02:09 < nuba> but then I would be able to translate HEAD, not the lastest release running on plainblack.com
02:09 < nuba> thats motivational too
02:09 <+perlDreamer> the i18n server is HEAD
02:09 <@rizen> plainblack.com is at most 1 week behind head
02:09 <@rizen> i18n is not head
02:09 <+perlDreamer> no?
02:09 <@rizen> i18n = plainblack.com
02:10 <+perlDreamer> Oh, yeah.
02:10 <+perlDreamer> You're right
02:10 <+perlDreamer> it pulls from /data/WebGUI
02:10 <+perlDreamer> on my system, that is HEAD :)
02:10 < nuba> same here
02:11 <@rizen> tomorrow Haarg will release 7.5.2 and then i18n will be up to head
02:12 < nuba> ok. I wont touch i18n before that and we'll then be sure there are no conflicts
02:12 <+perlDreamer> rizen: translationserver bugs get logged to the bug tracker?
02:12 < nuba> i wasnt planning to, anyway. thats something im doing on the weekends
02:12 <@rizen> yup
02:19 < nuba> rizen: BTW soon there will be no need to differentiate Brazilian Portuguese and Portuguese
02:19 <@rizen> oh yeah?
02:19 <@rizen> why is that?
02:19 < nuba> theres a orthographic reform treaty which has been signed by almost all portuguese speaking countries
02:20 <@rizen> aren't there only 2 portuguese speaking countries?
02:20 < nuba> heh, no. 
02:20 -!- MsGeek [n=chatzill@68.183.31.57] has joined #webgui
02:20 <@rizen> sorry for my ignorance
02:20 < nuba> Spoken in: Angola, Brazil, Cape Verde, East Timor, Guinea Bissau, Chinese S.A.R. of Macau, Mozambique, Portugal and São Tomé and Príncipe.
02:20 < nuba> from wikipedia
02:20 < MsGeek> Hi, I have a couple of Gooey wallpapers for you guys.
02:21 < MsGeek> Where do I email them to?
02:21 <@rizen> there's a site to post them to
02:21 <@rizen> let me get you the url
02:21 < MsGeek> They are based on a pic I took at SCALE 6x
02:21 <@rizen> http://www.webgui.org/wg/promote/wallpapers
02:21 <@rizen> just log in
02:21 < MsGeek> Yes, but there's nowhere to upload.
02:21 <@rizen> and then you'll see an option to post
02:21 < MsGeek> Ah.
02:21 < MsGeek> brb
02:23 < nuba> rizen: having Brazilian Portuguese up to date gives WebGUI a great coverage in south america, plus some of africa 
02:23 < nuba> rizen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_language#Geographic_distribution
02:24 <@rizen> i know. if we had spanish too we'd have prettymuch all of south america covered
02:24 < nuba> SA is not like europe, where there's a different language in every town ;)
02:24 <@rizen> and if we had french covered...that would give us even more of africa
02:25 < nuba> with portuguese+spanish, you cant barely notice the amount you wouldn't cover in SA and Central America too
02:25 < nuba> can barely*
02:25 < MsGeek> Alright, I'm in.
02:25 < nuba> a couple of tiny countries in the Amazon rainfores area
02:27 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5439 /tools/pushrelease.pl: beta vs stable
02:30 <@rizen> that's a lot of gooeys
02:31 <@rizen> Thanks MsGeek
02:31 < MsGeek> Yes, there is.
02:31 <@rizen> did you get your own gooey at the show?
02:31 < MsGeek> And there is now an even more impressive version for widescreen.
02:31 < MsGeek> Yes, I did.
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02:31 < MsGeek> Once I find one of those suction cup hook thingies it's going to stick on my iMac.
02:32 <@rizen> sweet
02:33 <@rizen> had you heard of WebGUI or seen Gooey before Scale?
02:33 < MsGeek> Originally I had an Ayanami Rei (Neon Genesis Evangelion) chibi plushie, but a friend of mine is more of a Gainax fan than I am and he was feeling a little depressed so I gave it to him.
02:33 < MsGeek> No, wasn't aware of it.
02:33 <@rizen> Well, we're glad to have you here now. Welcome.
02:34 < MsGeek> I don't know if my webhost has WebGUI as an option for content management.
02:34 <@rizen> if not, you should request it
02:34 < nuba> you gave away your Ayanami Rei plush doll??
02:35 < MsGeek> It was the Holidays. I was being generous.
02:35  * nuba watched EVA 1-25+3 movies 3x
02:35 < MsGeek> And I figured I'd find another one eventually.
02:35 < MsGeek> This machine I'm on is netnamed Eva00 because it's the same shade of indigo blue.
02:36 < nuba> i had my EVA-enthusiast fad a few years ago
02:36  * MsGeek is looking forward to You Are (Not) Alone when it comes out.
02:37 < metanil> if i want to add a new template variable in an asset, then will  $self->set("templatename","value"); will work.. if it, then which method should i write this code 
02:37 < metanil> ?
02:37 < MsGeek> Anyway, lemme look at what my host offers on Fantastico and get back to you.
02:37 <@rizen> ok...well thanks for the submission
02:38 <@rizen> oh, and if you have any other photos of our booth you'd like to share
02:38 <@rizen> post them here: http://www.webgui.org/webgui/campaigns/gooey-on-the-go
02:41 < MsGeek> They've got everything *but* your product.
02:41 <@rizen> they probably just haven't been properly introduced to it
02:41 <@rizen> =)
02:43 < MsGeek> Drupal Geeklog Joomla Mambo Open Source PHP-Nuke phpWCMS phpWebSite Post-Nuke Siteframe TYPO3 Xoops
02:43 < MsGeek> That's the list.
02:43 <@rizen> all php stuff
02:43 <@rizen> maybe that's why
02:43 <@rizen> maybe they are a php only hoster
02:44 < MsGeek> Yeah, they're big on LAMP there.
02:44 <@rizen> we're lamp to
02:44 < MsGeek> So, oh well.
02:44 <@rizen> where P = Perl
02:44 < MsGeek> Ah.
02:45 < MsGeek> Maybe they aren't Perl fans.
02:46 < MsGeek> One thing for sure, I'd never be crazy enough to run a Nuke site, either PHP-Nuke or Post-Nuke.
02:46 < MsGeek> I did that...once.
02:46 <@rizen> they get hacked every 3rd second
02:46 < MsGeek> Yep!
02:47 < MsGeek> Easy enough to hack even for a crapflooder idiot with only two brain cells to rub together.
02:47 <@rizen> Well MsGeek...even if you can't use WebGUI at your hoster, welcome to our community. We're glad to have you here.
02:48 < MsGeek> Anyway, good talking to you, and I'm glad you liked my pics.
02:48 < MsGeek> Take care all...
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02:48 <@rizen> that's one...now we just need the 700 other people we talked to to come on over
02:48 <@rizen> =)
02:51 < nuba> thats a 0.14% conversion rate until now
02:51 < nuba> from booth visitor to irc visitor
02:52 < nuba> you
02:52 < nuba> you're doing well, considering the came AND contributed
02:52 < nuba> he*
02:52 <@rizen> yeah
02:52 <@rizen> that's amazing
02:52 <@rizen> oh btw
02:52 <@rizen> you guys may be interested to know that the PB staff now has a blog
02:52 <@rizen> http://www.plainblack.com/pr/staff/blog
02:53 <@rizen> they're prettying it up
02:53 <@rizen> but it's already got a number of posts
02:53 < nuba> Can they freely speak there? Workflow is Commit With Approval? ;)
02:54 <@rizen> they can speak freely there
02:54 <@rizen> except about ongoing client projects
02:54 <@rizen> cuz we could be sued for that
02:55 <@rizen> oh and they can't say anything bad about any client, ongoing project or not
02:55 <@rizen> other than that, they can say what they want
02:55 < nuba> fair enough
02:56 < nuba> what about visitors commenting and not following these guidelines
02:57 <@rizen> visitors don't know anything about our clients or client projects
02:57 <@rizen> so they couldn't possibly comment on them
03:01 < nuba> rizen: FYI http://www.plainblack.com/pr/products-and-services isnt listing these /news/news/webgui-vps
03:02 <@rizen> thanks i'll have someone fix it
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03:22 < nuba> 'nite guys, off to bed
04:09 < perlmonkey2> http://www.plainblack.com/intranet/blog/blog.rss formatting is broke, I see wallOfText
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11:27 < ryuu_ro> hi guys, in a navigation template I'm doing something like this  <tmpl_if page.ownerUserId="3">  FOO   </tmpl_if>  
11:28 < ryuu_ro> but then i get a syntax error
11:28 < ryuu_ro> can't i use page.ownerUserId in this way?
12:07 < BartJol> and if you make it <tmpl_if <tmpl_var ownerUserId>="3">?
12:09 < ryuu_ro> give me a sec
12:12 < ryuu_ro> nope
12:12 < BartJol> too bad
12:13 < ryuu_ro> replaced the dot with an underscore, that' too is not the solution
12:32 < BartJol> ryuu_ro , besides the docs I just gave you, I have some more, you can come and check them, if needed
12:32 < ryuu_ro> ok, tnx 
12:32 < ryuu_ro> i gonna check the docs first
12:32 < ryuu_ro> then we'll have lunch :) 
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13:36 < Radix__> what template engine are you using ryuu_ro ?
13:37 < Radix__> html::template won't do that - you need either template toolkit or the extended html::template (I forget the name off the top of my head)
13:38 < Radix__> html::template::expr
13:38 < Radix__> you can use java to bolster the base template engine up a bit, but then you get a javascript requirement
13:39 < Radix__> javascript I mean
13:54 < ryuu_ro> ah tnx Radix, i think i will go back to Template Toolkit then
13:55 < ryuu_ro> on the other hand, i'm using yui for the menu so javascript is already required
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14:28 < BartJol> Hi Radix
14:29 < BartJol> do you know if it harms security if a value, given with a macro can be set to anything?
14:29 < BartJol> default is zero, any other value effectively means 1
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14:32 < BartJol> there is not much happening with the value, just a test whether a calculation should be made or not
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15:55 < Radix__> depends how it's used I guess, probably not
16:02 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@184.sub-75-204-110.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI
16:04 < SDuensin> Good morning.
16:05 -!- wgGuest62 [n=wgGuest6@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has joined #webgui
16:05 < wgGuest62> hello
16:06 < ryuu_ro> morning
16:07 < wgGuest62> about one week ago i did a upgrade of my web sites that were in 7.3.22 to the latest version of webgui.  in that ocassion i had an error, so i had to return to 7.3.22 again
16:08 < wgGuest62> yesterday i tried to do the same but when the upgrade script start, i obtain some errors
16:10 < wgGuest62> you can see the errors at http://webgui.pastebin.com/m27cd57da
16:13 < wgGuest62> if someone can help me, thanks in advance
16:20 < perlmonkey2> wgGuest62: That looks kind of serious.  Like an schema upgrade failed half way through.
16:23 < wgGuest62> i don't know what to do
16:27 < wgGuest62> i am comparing the mysql databases of two versions 7.3.22 vs 7.4.15
16:28 < wgGuest62> in 7.3.22 in the colaboration table does not exist the column threadApprovalWorkflow
16:29 < wgGuest62> the upgrade from 7.3.22 to 7.4.0 will add the column?
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17:05 < wgGuest62> hello
17:05 < wgGuest62> when i run spectre i obtain the next error 'jsonToObj' will be obsoleted. Please use 'from_json' instead. at ../lib/WebGUI/Config.pm line 342
17:06 < wgGuest62> i don't how to fix it?
17:09 -!- wgGuest37 [n=wgGuest3@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has joined #webgui
17:09 < wgGuest37> hello
17:09 < wgGuest37> i can to use the module VUser::Google::ProvisioningAPI in a macro?
17:19 < wgGuest62> hello
17:19 < wgGuest62> help me again
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17:29 < wgGuest37> hi
17:29 < wgGuest62> hi
17:29 < wgGuest37> how are you?
17:31 < wgGuest62> how are you, too
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17:43 < perlmonkey2> wgGuest62: still there?
17:43 < perlmonkey2> wgGuest62: if someone is in irc and you want their attention, say their name.  Most irc clients will alert the person that their name was said.
17:44 < perlmonkey2> wgGuest62: Are you running WG from source or the WRE (I'm guessing source).
17:44 < perlmonkey2> if source, then open the cpan shell by 'cpan' then type 'force install Config::JSON'
17:44 < perlmonkey2> or actually I think the cpan bug is fixed and you can just type 'cpan -i Config::JSON' on the command line.
17:44 < wgGuest62> i am running from source
17:45 < wgGuest62> i have installed config::json without any problems
17:46 < wgGuest62> i was upgrading from 73.22 to 7.4
17:47 < wgGuest62> in 7.3.22 i don't have installed Config::JSON, so to do the upgrade, i installed it
17:48 < wgGuest62> but i obtained some errors in the upgrade, i have to ruturned to 7.3.22
17:49 < wgGuest62> 7.3.22 don't need Config::JSON, so would have some problem if it is installed?
17:52 < wgGuest62> perlmonkey2, do you know what can i do?
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17:54 < ckotil> http://snare.grnoc.iu.edu/free.sub.png
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17:59 < ckotil> thats to penn station btw.
18:12 < perlmonkey2> wgGuest62: You definetely need Config::JSON
18:12 < perlmonkey2> and having the most up to date version *will* break your older webgui install.
18:12 < perlmonkey2> But the point is to upgrade webgui, right?
18:13 < perlmonkey2> the database error is the real trouble.  your upgrade script is trying to create a table that already exists and then erroring out.  I sure hope you followed guidelines and created a full database backup before starting to upgrade.
18:14 < perlmonkey2> But perhaps you can manually delete the table
18:14 < perlmonkey2> but probably best of all, I hear plainblack has an excellent support service, very reasonably priced.
18:15 < perlmonkey2> Whom better to resolve Webgui issues than the masterminds behind webgui?
18:17 < wgGuest37> hello
18:17 < wgGuest37> i have a macro and when i run, webgui.log show me this: ERROR - www.prueba.com.conf - WebGUI::Session::ErrorHandler::error[184] - Could not run  on WebGUI::Macro::Prueba because it does not exist at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Macro.pm line 140, what i must do?
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19:24 < br4k3r> hey all
19:24 < br4k3r> got a problem with my crumbtrail
19:24 <+perlDreamer> yo, br4k4r
19:24 <+perlDreamer> birds?
19:25 <+perlDreamer> or malignant fairy demons bent on stopping you from reaching the city to save the baby?
19:25 < br4k3r> well
19:25 < br4k3r> heres how it's set up
19:26 < br4k3r> Start Point: relative to current url
19:26 < br4k3r> start point ./ (0)
19:26 < br4k3r> ancestor end point ../ (-1)
19:26 < br4k3r> include ancestors, self, decendands, pedigree
19:26 < br4k3r> decendant end point is ./a/ (+1)
19:27 < br4k3r> when i click on a sub link (example Home > About Us)
19:27 < br4k3r> it displays the trail properly... when i go back to the home it displays Home > About Us > Links > Contact Us > Calendar
19:28 <+perlDreamer> two questions:
19:28 <+perlDreamer> 1) what version of wG are you using?
19:28 <+perlDreamer> 2) Can you duplicate this on the demo site?
19:30 < br4k3r> I'm using wG 7.4.22
19:31 < br4k3r> i am not running a demo site
19:31 < br4k3r> as a side note, I created my own theme...
19:31 <+perlDreamer> I understand that, but it's always good to check if it's due to your templating, or due to the core asset.
19:31 <+perlDreamer> So would you please try to duplicate it on the demo site?
19:31 < br4k3r> will do... brb
19:32 <+perlDreamer> Need some bash scripting help
19:33 <@preaction> you've got questions, we've got answers!
19:33 <+perlDreamer> How do I translate this to bash?
19:33 <+perlDreamer> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m59b52df4
19:33 <+perlDreamer> and as a 1-liner?
19:35 <@preaction> svn revert -r .
19:35 <@preaction> sorry, -R
19:36 <+perlDreamer> wow
19:36 <+perlDreamer> I didn't know you could do svn in bash :)
19:36 <@preaction> of course
19:36 <@preaction> bash has access to any program on your PATH
19:37 <+perlDreamer> There's only 2 things stopping me from switching from tcsh to bash
19:37 <@preaction> if you want to pass in a folder to revert, it'd be more like svn revert -R $1
19:37 <+perlDreamer> 1) writing little for scripts
19:37 <+perlDreamer> 2) setting file complete to 1 tab
19:39 <@preaction> for file in *
19:40 <+perlDreamer> Don't you need a "do" in there someplace?
19:40 <@preaction> do; cd $file; svn revert $file; cd ..; done
19:40 <@preaction> ; means a line-break, since i'm lazy
19:40 <+perlDreamer> k
19:41 <@preaction> http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/index.html <- advanced bash-scripting guide. quickly gets to the heart of things
19:42 <+perlDreamer> thanks, preaction
19:50 <+perlDreamer> bug --
19:51 <@apeiron> apply ls *
19:51 <@apeiron> apply > all shell for loops
19:51 <@apeiron> Downside: BSD-only
19:52 <+perlDreamer> I'm pretty linux centric nowadays
19:52 <+perlDreamer> they finally moved us off Solaris at $dayJob to RHEL4
19:53 <+perlDreamer> CIA-40 is going to puke on that commit, too
19:53 < nuba> some nice loops here too http://zsh.sunsite.dk/Doc/Release/zsh_5.html#SEC22
19:53 <+perlDreamer> is zsh syntax compatible with bash?
19:54 < nuba> I dont think so
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19:56 < nuba> I started using bash lately more because of the WRE
19:56 < ckotil> even if you put zsh in the hash bang?
19:56 < nuba> was getting random errors here and there, and all smoother with bash
19:57 <+perlDreamer> that's what I'm thinking, too
19:57 < ckotil> yeah, bash rocks.
19:57 < ckotil> ;)
19:59 < nuba> well I could have tried to find out what was wrong, but I was really busy so i got bash from  /usr/ports and moved on to other things
20:00 < nuba> zsh completion for programm's switches really rocks
20:00 < ckotil> ohh, that sounds cool.
20:06 <@khenn> hey, who did the fancy graphics for the staff blog?
20:06 <@khenn> was that steve?
20:06 <@khenn> looks cool
20:07 <@preaction> yeah, he asked me about it last night
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20:13 <+perlDreamer> meatbop rocks
20:14 <@preaction> indeed
20:22 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5440 /translations/ (330 files in 16 dirs): brought i18n files up to date with HEAD, removing old entries
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20:58 <@preaction> any idea why the ^User("field"); macro would return undef even if I clear the cache and the name of the field is right?
21:00 <@preaction> nm, must be a cache issue. i tried on a user who's never logged in before and it works
21:00 <@preaction> the user cache must be really difficult to clear out
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21:51 < ckotil> its really difficult to make a .swf clickable as a link. i think a good rfe would be implement a click through url into the file asset for swf's
21:52 <@rizen> it's not hard to do it at all
21:52 < ckotil> im able to make my swf clickable in safari and ff (mac only) every other browser will not allow it.
21:52 < ckotil> oh? i placed an invisible div over my swf and wrapped that in an a tag
21:52 <@rizen> you're thinking too hard
21:53 < ckotil> <a href=""><object></object></a> doesnt work.
21:53 < ckotil> please tell me your secret
21:53 <@rizen> maybe i'm not understanding what you want to do
21:53 <@rizen> oh
21:53 <@rizen> wait now i get it
21:53 <@rizen> you actually want the movie to become a link
21:54 < ckotil> correct. done only in html
21:54 <@rizen> not that you want to link to the movie
21:54 <@rizen> ok
21:54 < ckotil> yes.
21:54 <@rizen> yeah, that doesn't work in ie
21:54 < ckotil> youtube does it so gracefully.
21:54 <@rizen> you actually have to build that url into the movie itself
21:54 < ckotil> yah, thats pry how they do it.
21:54 <@rizen> sorry for the confusion there
21:54 < ckotil> our new network weathermap tool is flash based.
21:55 < ckotil> no prob. my heart only skipped a couple beats
21:55 < ckotil> http://atlas.grnoc.iu.edu/I2.html
21:55 < ckotil> and we use the same swf for a small 'mini-map' but neevr hard coded a click through url into the swf.
21:55 < ckotil> thats on the feature request list now tho.
21:56 < ckotil> http://noc.nlr.net/ mini versions.
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23:19 < CIA-40> WebGUI: graham * r5441 /WebGUI/docs/ (2 files in 2 dirs): preparing for 7.5.2 release
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23:57 <+perlDreamer> nuba: Are you awake?
23:58 < nuba> kinda
23:58 < nuba> you took the red pill too?
23:58 <+perlDreamer> In portugese, are the words for button (like clothing) and button (like web page) the same?
23:58 < nuba> nope
23:58 < nuba> actually yes
23:58 < nuba> botao applies to both
23:59 < nuba> botão
23:59 < nuba> with a tilde over tje a
23:59 < nuba> the*
--- Day changed Fri Feb 15 2008
00:01 <+perlDreamer> thanks
00:01 <+perlDreamer> I'm filling in some of the Spanish translation
00:02 < perlmonkey2> when did 8GB flash drives drop to $30?
00:03 < nuba> in spanish is boton and plural botones
00:03 <+perlDreamer> Yes
00:03 <+perlDreamer> Is it better to use UTF-8 characters for accents on web pages, or HTML encodings?
00:03 < nuba> or botón with a ´ over the second o
00:04 <+perlDreamer> never mind, the editor auto translates to encodings
00:04 <@apeiron> perlbot, utf8 ?
00:04 < perlbot> ? U+FFFD "REPLACEMENT CHARACTER", category: "Specials", utf8 bytes: EF BF BD
00:04 < nuba> perlDreamer: if the page encoding is UTF-8, using UTF-8 chars is great
00:04 < nuba> why not?
00:04 <@apeiron> ã perhaps?
00:04 <@apeiron> perlbot, utf8 ã
00:04 < perlbot> ã U+00E3 "LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH TILDE", category: "Latin-1 Supplement", utf8 bytes: C3 A3, upper-case: U+00C3 (Ã)
00:05 <@apeiron> nuba, Your IRC client isn't set to use UTF8, is it?
00:06 < nuba> nope
00:06 < nuba> term_charset = US-ASCII in my irssi
00:09 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5442 /releases/WebGUI_7.5.2-beta: Release 7.5.2-beta
00:09 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5443 /tools/translationserver.cgi: fix a typo so that we can find out why the Polish translation does not work
00:09 < CIA-40> WebGUI: graham * r5444 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): preparing for 7.5.3 dev
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00:40 < spersyn> hello
00:40 <+perlDreamer> howdy
00:40 <+perlDreamer> Do you have a WebGUI question?
00:42 < spersyn> yep: see log at http://webgui.pastebin.com/d3498b7f9
00:43 <+perlDreamer> what version of WebGUI are you running?
00:43 < spersyn> spectre does not start. says:  cann't connect to 127.0.0.1: 32133
00:44 <+perlDreamer> What version of WebGUI are you running, and did you recently upgrade?
00:44 < spersyn> just installed wre 0.8.1 with auto;ated install
00:44 < spersyn> automated
00:44 < spersyn> so should be latest stable release
00:44 < spersyn> 7.5
00:44 <+perlDreamer> 7.5 is not the latest stable release, it's beta
00:45 <+perlDreamer> It sounds like you're running an old version of JSON
00:45 <+perlDreamer> what happens if you go to /data/WebGUI/sbin
00:45 < spersyn> tryint to run tesenvironment.pl: says JSON version is 1.x, should be 2.y
00:45 <+perlDreamer> Yeah, you need to upgrade.
00:46 < spersyn> yes but here is the upgrade result using testenvironment.pl
00:46 < spersyn> http://webgui.pastebin.com/d7e29ebf9
00:47 < spersyn> doesn't want to
00:47 <+perlDreamer> you may have to install it manually
00:47 <+perlDreamer> perl -MCPAN -e shell
00:47 <+perlDreamer> install JSON
00:49 < spersyn> aargg same output if manually done (Writing Makefile for JSON
00:49 < spersyn>     -- NOT OK
00:49 < spersyn> )
00:50 < spersyn> what is the equivqlent of make clean in coan cli?
00:50 < spersyn> cpan cli?
00:50 <+perlDreamer> I don't think there is one
00:50 <+perlDreamer> Which OS are you using?
00:50 < spersyn> mandriva (redhat alike)
00:50 < spersyn> 2008 version
00:52 < spersyn> is there another way, like download the JSON module, and build it manually?
00:52 <+perlDreamer> yes
00:52 <+perlDreamer> Go to search.cpan.org
00:52 < nuba> GooeyOfSteel: check www.plainblack.com
00:52 <+perlDreamer> search for JSON
00:52 < GooeyOfSteel> www.plainblack.com   Server: Apache/2.0 | Generator: WebGUI 7.5.2
00:52 <+perlDreamer> download it
00:52 <+perlDreamer> unpack the file
00:52 <+perlDreamer> cd into the distribution area
00:52 <+perlDreamer> type perl Makefile.PL
00:52 <@apeiron> I've seen that some, possibly lots, of Linux distributions like to ship without things like make installed, for some unfathomable reason.
00:53 <+perlDreamer> ew
00:53 < spersyn> ok thanks I'll try this way, and 'll let you know
00:53 <+perlDreamer> but that shouldn't prevent you from running perl Makefile.PL, would it?
00:53 <@apeiron> perlDreamer, No, just the next command'll b0rk. :)
00:53 <+perlDreamer> yeah, this guy can't even build the Makefile
00:54 < nuba> apeiron: leaving compiling/debugging tools in the system is by some considered to increase insecurity, as these tools would be available to any would-be intruders.
00:54 <@apeiron> nuba, Tell that to the BSD systems that've been doing it since before Linux existed.
00:54 <+perlDreamer> anyone know how to do a variable width, negative look-behind assertion in a regex?
00:54 <@apeiron> nuba, Like... say... OpenBSD. :)
00:55 < nuba> apeiron: i just wanted to shed some light on the "for some unfathomable reason."
00:55 < nuba> im not a slim-as-hell enthusiast, but I do endorse the practice of installing barely the necessary in a server
00:56 < nuba> so more like slim-as-needed
00:56 < nuba> or too slim and you make the sysadmin's job a PITA
00:57 < spersyn> mandriva is distribution let's say for novices in linux. that explains why tehy restrict the possibilities, I assume.. :)
01:00 < nuba> well i think a distro for novices should come with the usual tools ready for use
01:00 < nuba> to ease the learning curve of these novices
01:01 < nuba> spersyn: you need to be a bit beyond the novice level to know exactly what tools you need to install in a server to accompllish a given task
01:03 < spersyn> yes. i'm a little bit more than novice. but just saw that default install of mandriva doesn't even include the make package
01:03 <+perlDreamer> you'll need make eventually
01:03 <+perlDreamer> and gcc
01:03 <+perlDreamer> and a whole raft of other things
01:04 <+perlDreamer> check out the install instructions and check your package list
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01:20 < spersyn> k. I've upgraded JSON and Config::JSON
01:21 < spersyn> let's test by restarting spectre now...
01:22 < spersyn> it works :)
01:24 < spersyn> thanks very ;uch for the help. I had to install the perl modules manually at the end
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01:49 <+perlDreamer> Is colon ':', a valid URL type character?
01:49 <+perlDreamer> In other words, could I have http://mysite.com/left:right/foo as a valid URL?
01:52 <@rizen> : is invalid
01:52 <+perlDreamer> cool.  Thanks!
02:06 <+perlDreamer> bug--
02:08 < metanil> does the the template variable ownerUserId return the owner of the file?
02:08 <+perlDreamer> ownerUserId is whoever owns that Asset.
02:08 <+perlDreamer> regardless of the kind of asset
02:08 < metanil> i upload a file with different user.. but its showing same Id
02:09 < metanil> then it applies for file asset as well.
02:09 <+perlDreamer> yes, although what template are you using?
02:10 < metanil> "File Folder"
02:10 <+perlDreamer> hm
02:10 <+perlDreamer> let me check
02:10 < metanil> there is folder ..and within it there are files.
02:10 <+perlDreamer> ownerUserId does not have a template variable for the owner of all the files
02:10 <+perlDreamer> only for the folder itself
02:11 <+perlDreamer> I mean, Folder does not have a template variable for the owner of the files
02:11 < metanil> oh! that means it is now showing the owner of folder not an individual file.
02:11 <+perlDreamer> Yes
02:11 <+perlDreamer> Check out the file_loop variables in the folder template
02:11 < metanil> .. what if i want to show ownerid for file. 
02:11 < metanil> within a folder
02:11 <+perlDreamer> You'll have to change the folder asset
02:12 < metanil> in method view?
02:12 <+perlDreamer> whereever the template variables are defined
02:12 < metanil> within this -> foreach my $child (@{$children}) {
02:12 <+perlDreamer> view is a good place to start looking
02:13 < metanil> like this http://webgui.pastebin.com/d622a41c6 ?
02:14 <+perlDreamer> is getOwnerUserName a valid WebGUI Asset method call?
02:14 <+perlDreamer> never seen that one
02:14 < metanil> no no.. :D .. i added it
02:14 <+perlDreamer> Did you add it to Asset, or to Folder or to File?
02:15 < metanil> this is from Asset/Wobject/Folder.pm
02:15 <+perlDreamer> well, unless it's available from all of the File Assets (File, Image, ZipArchive), etc. that won't work
02:15 <+perlDreamer> wrong inheritance structure
02:16 < metanil> and $child->getOwnerUserName will call WebGUI::Asset::File
02:16 < metanil> any hints?
02:18 < metanil> But i think its going to each files within that loop.. so calling ownerId would definitely return the owner of that file.. (thats what i had guessed)
02:19 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5445 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fix double and single slash handling in URLs, whether using SSL or not. Add tests to check
02:19 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5446 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt: put fix in correct version
02:20 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5447 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): forward port slash handling fix from 7.4 branch
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02:32 < metanil> so any other good approaches?
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02:58 < metanil> i see 'stateChangedBy' in asset table .. what will it refers?
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03:25 < metanil> i can see 'stateChangedBy' in asset table in database .. what will it refers? is it mean by last updated by??
03:28 <@rizen> stateChangedBy is the userId of the user the published it or put it in the trash or cut it to the clipboard
03:29 < metanil> oh!! .. so if i edit some asset where will it be logged?
03:30 < metanil> there is only createdby field in that table. 
03:31 <@rizen> look in assetData
03:31 <@rizen> that contains the other info you're looking for
03:32 < metanil> thnx.. got it. 
03:51 < metanil> rizen, thanks i got it working..
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09:38 < CIA-40> WebGUI: graham * r5448 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Auth.pm): Reject HTML and macros in usernames
09:38 < CIA-40> WebGUI: graham * r5449 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (3 files in 3 dirs): preparing for 7.4.24 release
09:38 < CIA-40> WebGUI: graham * r5450 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/lib/WebGUI/ (i18n/English/WebGUI.pm Auth.pm): fix HTML and macros rejection for usernames
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13:19 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5451 /releases/WebGUI_7.4.24-stable: Release 7.4.24-stable
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16:15 < wgGuest31> hello
16:15 < BartJol> hi
16:16 < BartJol> what's up?
16:18 < wgGuest31> i have an error with spectre
16:18 < wgGuest31> i upgraded from 7.3.22 to 7.4.21
16:18 < BartJol> in one step?
16:18 < wgGuest31> the error is the next
16:20 < BartJol> yes?
16:20 < wgGuest31> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m3f6d8edf
16:21 < wgGuest31> i thinks i for the json's version
16:22 < ryuu_ro_> wgGuest31: do you run WRE?
16:22 < BartJol> ryuu can help you better on this one
16:22 < wgGuest31> no, i run from source
16:25 < ryuu_ro_> ok, did you run testEnvironment before you upgraded?
16:25 < wgGuest31> yes
16:25 < ryuu_ro_> no errors came up?
16:25 < wgGuest31> no
16:25 < ryuu_ro_> good
16:26 < wgGuest31> i have two servers in the same version
16:27 < wgGuest31> i have been comparing the json's version
16:28 < wgGuest31> and in one fo them i don't have problems and i have json 1.00 and config::json is 1.1.1
16:28 < wgGuest31> in the server that i have this problem i have json 2.06 and config::json 1.1.4
16:29 < ryuu_ro_> in the gotcha file there is something mentioned about force installinng config::json 1.1.0 before upgrading 
16:29 < ryuu_ro_> but i'm not sure for which version
16:30 < wgGuest31> but the problem is that i have config::json 1.1.4 installed
16:30 < wgGuest31> how can uninstall this module to install again?
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16:32 < wgGuest31> in the gotcha.txt from version 7.4.21 i found, You must upgrade to Config::JSON 1.1.0 or higher prior to upgrading.
16:33 < ryuu_ro_> SynQ had a problem with config::Json 1.1.4 too, but he's not online now
16:33 < ryuu_ro_> If you want to downgrade I quess you have to download the tar form cpan and manually install it
16:33 < ryuu_ro_> not sure about this though
16:35 < wgGuest31> is there a problem  if i have both versions installed?
16:35 < wgGuest31> or how can i remove the module?
16:36 <@rizen> you can't remove it, you just have to install over it
16:36 <@rizen> by downloading from cpan directly and then installing the old version
16:36 < wgGuest31> ok
16:36 < wgGuest31> i am going to do
16:36 < wgGuest31> thanks
17:12 < wgGuest31> rizen, i have installed old versions of json and config::json, but i continue with the same problem
17:12 < CIA-40> WebGUI: graham * r5452 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Reject HTML and macros in usernames
17:13 < wgGuest31> what do you think about upgrading from 7.4.21 to 7.4.22?
17:13 <@rizen> why do you call me by name? i don't know what you're talking about. i wasn't here when you were discussing your problem.
17:14 <@rizen> um...it's a good idea
17:14 < wgGuest31> ok
17:14 < wgGuest31> thanks
17:16 <@rizen> you need to be on the latest version of JSON and COnfig::JSOn to do that though
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18:30 < BartJol> perldreamer, Koen has filed his copy of your presentation in a huge pile of paper, cd's etc. And the pile has been badly indexed
18:30 <+perlDreamer> BartJol, I'll email you a copy tonight when I get back to $home
18:30 <+perlDreamer> Please PM me your email address
18:30 < BartJol> great, you're my hero
18:43 <@rizen> perlDreamer: branch/WebGUI_Commerce is the place to work
18:43 <+perlDreamer> cool
18:44 <+perlDreamer> when/how do we start writing tests?
18:45 < BartJol> bye
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18:45 <@rizen> we start now
18:45 <@rizen> i'm setting up a mailing list for us
18:45 <@rizen> or do you think we should just keep discussion on the dev mailing list?
18:46 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5453 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce: A place to put new commerce stuff until it's ready
18:46 <@rizen> i just don't want a bunch of no-nothing opinionated bastards to interrupt our work
18:46 <@rizen> i guess we could just ignore them
18:47 <+perlDreamer> I'm pretty thick skinned these days
18:47 <+perlDreamer> but an email list has the advantage of keeping a record of assignments and decisions
18:47 <+perlDreamer> I think it's a good idea.
18:47 <@rizen> let's just do it on the dev mailing list
18:47 <@rizen> it doesn't get much traffic these days
18:53 <@rizen> ok i threw out the first assignements on the dev mailing list
18:55 <@rizen> pd
18:55 <+perlDreamer> ?
18:55 <@rizen> the testing document you sent me doesn't even mention test::class
18:55 <+perlDreamer> No, it's problematic right now.
18:55 <@rizen> oh
18:55 <+perlDreamer> It's the cause of that perl problem I told you about
18:55 <@rizen> so i should stick with the old tests?
18:56 <+perlDreamer> Yes.
18:56 <@rizen> ok
18:56 <+perlDreamer> It seems to work okay on MacOS, but Fedora/i386 (32 and 64 bit) and BSD don't work
19:01 <+perlDreamer> rizen: I'm not seeing anything from the dev list.
19:01 <+perlDreamer> Was spectre restarted yesterday after the upgrade?
19:01 <@rizen> i just emailed it a couple minutes ago
19:01 <@rizen> it's on a 5 minute cycle methinks
19:01 <+perlDreamer> k
19:02 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5454 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/t/Shop: where the new commerce tests wil go
19:03 <+perlDreamer> I have to go and play disk space cop.  I'll be back in a little while
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19:11 < dionak> hey guys. quick question on removing a site. i recently removed a few sites from our WG installation and ended up with cron jobs trying to run against sites/dbs that no longer existed. Is there an extra step I need to do to prevent this? 
19:11 < dionak> i'm getting ready to remove another...
19:12 <+perlDreamer> Do you mean cron/cron jobs, or Spectre/Cron jobs?
19:13 < dionak> are both created for a site when it's added?
19:13 <+perlDreamer> added via the WRE?
19:13 < dionak> yes, using the add site script. 
19:13 < dionak> i use the remove site script when taking them off
19:14 <+perlDreamer> according to the WRE instructions on the wiki, the cron jobs have to be added manually
19:14 <+perlDreamer> so I'd guess they have to be removed manually, too
19:14 <+perlDreamer> but I'm not a WRE user, so do take that with a grain of salt
19:14 < dionak> what about spectre? should i check to see if a spectre cron is running before removing?
19:19 <@rizen> spectre just needs to be restarted after removing the site
19:19 <@rizen> same with modperl
19:19 <@rizen> and modproxy
19:20 < dionak> that is the normal process. i'm just not sure how those processes were still in the system after removal but i'll see how this one goes.
19:21 <@rizen> what processes are we talking about here? you didn't answer the question above whether you were talking about Spectre cron or unix cron.
19:22 < dionak> i believe they were spectre because I recall seeing pb0000001 (or similar) in the webgui.log relating to the error
19:22 < dionak> not sure about the # of 0's
19:23 < dionak> is that hourly workflows?
19:26 < dionak> is there going to be a presentation at the WUC on workflows? i don't use them often and could probably use a refresher...
19:27 <@rizen> there was one last year
19:27 <@rizen> won't be one this year
19:27 <@rizen> the admin guide goes into workflows in quite a bit of detail
19:27 <@rizen> i think you guys have a copy
19:28 < dionak> ok, we have a copy of that..
19:28 <@rizen> and there is more about workflows in the developers guide coming out in a couple months (i know that doesn't help you know)
19:28 < dionak> ah, but it will. :)
19:28 < dionak> i think i just need an understanding of system workflows and creating them.
19:29 < dionak> for instance, we redeveloped our site under dev.knowmad.com and then I ported the db over to production. i still have some workflows running for RSS feeds that are looking at dev.knowmad.com. 
19:29 < dionak> still trying to find those....
19:33 < dionak> anyways, thanks. i'll go read a bit..
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20:15 <@rizen> perlDreamer just an fyi
20:15 <@rizen> you introduced a bug at
20:15 <@rizen> https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/diff/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Cron.pm?rev1=5356;rev2=5357
20:15 <+perlDreamer> yes, I think Frank mentioned that last week
20:16 <@rizen> that is fixed here: https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/diff/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Cron.pm?rev1=5454;rev2=5455
20:16 <@rizen> the reason i bring i up is to see if there's something you see that i don't see
20:16 <@rizen> you're checking for a hash ref on a  string, cuz the text is still json
20:16 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-226-44-250.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI
20:17 <+perlDreamer> That's based on a fix from the Commerce system which was incorrectly applied here in the Cron
20:17 <@rizen> ok
20:17 <@rizen> nevermind then
20:18 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5455 /WebGUI/ (lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Cron.pm docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt): faulty ref check
20:19 <@rizen> anyway, that is why the emails from dev mailing list weren't going out
20:19 <@rizen> or coming in
20:19 <+perlDreamer> I thought that Frank fixed it last week after talking to me about it.
20:19 <@rizen> looks like it was already fixed in the 7.4 branch
20:19 <@rizen> but not head
20:19 <+perlDreamer> that would explain it
20:20 <@rizen> btw if you find flaws in my spec feel free to point them out
20:20 <@rizen> i'm going to upload an open document version of it shortly
20:20 <@rizen> cuz i found some flaws
20:21 <+perlDreamer> Cool.
20:21 <+perlDreamer> Googe doc, or OO.org?
20:21 <@rizen> oo.org
20:22 <@rizen> would you prefer google doc?
20:22 <+perlDreamer> No.  Just curious
20:28 < nuba> btw Google Docs is HTML. you can switch from/to HTML editing mode there.
20:28 <+perlDreamer> I'm going to ask Peter to help me with translating WebGUI into Spanish
20:30 < nuba> cool
20:30 < nuba> muy bueno
20:31 <@rizen> nuba, how many languages do you speak?
20:31 <+perlDreamer> He had a blast on the Wikipedia article
20:31 <+perlDreamer> I hope this will be as good.
20:32 < nuba> portuguese, english, lots of spanish, some french, some italian
20:33 <@rizen> you are a god to me
20:33 < nuba> you guys?
20:34 <@rizen> my native language is garbled crap
20:34 <@rizen> and i speak a little bit of english
20:34 < nuba> lol
20:36 <+perlDreamer> English, a little spanish, a little german, some phrases in vietnamese, perl, fortran, assembly
20:36 < nuba> i think when you're not in a dominant country you have a strong motivation to learn other languages
20:36 <@rizen> i think most americans are at a strong disadvantage for not speaking at least one additional language
20:36 <@rizen> i know i am
20:37 <+perlDreamer> You should learn English, then, to augment your garbled crap
20:37 <@rizen> i've been trying to learn english, but it's hard
20:40 < nuba> well im still learning english, you guys please let me know if you see me making any weird looking phrases
20:41 <+perlDreamer> Si estara' una problema, nos le dicemos
20:41 <+perlDreamer> First Commit.  w00t!
20:44 < nuba> perlDreamer: its si hay algun problema, te haremos saber.
20:45 <+perlDreamer> "If this is some problem, we make you to know"
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20:45 <+perlDreamer> I see.
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20:45 < nuba> that means "if there is any problem, we`ll let you know"
20:46 <+perlDreamer> Necesito practicar mas
20:46 < nuba> correcto
20:50 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5456 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/t/Shop/Tax.t: add Tax tests for new and session method
21:04 <+perlDreamer> rizen: I have a spec suggestion to make
21:04 <@rizen> ok
21:04 <+perlDreamer> I think we should have a version history page which lists changes in each release
21:04 <+perlDreamer> either that, or have the doc itself under version control
21:04 <+perlDreamer> that way you can quickly find the changes, rather than reading through everything each time
21:04 <@rizen> we already link to the change long
21:05 <@rizen> log
21:05 <@rizen> on getwebgui.com
21:05 <@rizen> what else are you looking for?
21:05 <+perlDreamer> for the commerce spec
21:06 <@rizen> oh
21:06 <@rizen> but even if we versioned the doc you wouldn't be able to see what changed
21:06 <@rizen> it would have to be text or html
21:06 <+perlDreamer> true
21:07 <+perlDreamer> and with text we'd lose the graphics
21:07 <@rizen> which isn't ideal for the graphics and stuff that are in there
21:07 <@rizen> text also isn't good for the tables
21:07 <@rizen> we'd need to use html
21:07 <+perlDreamer> but then the doc isn't flat
21:07 <+perlDreamer> the graphics are stored outside
21:15 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5457 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Tax.pm t/Shop/Tax.t lib/WebGUI/Shop): 
21:15 < CIA-40> WebGUI: Fix a bad use test in Shop/Tax.t
21:15 < CIA-40> WebGUI: Begin Tax.pm, using Class::InsideOut with a basic constructor and a session method.
21:25 < nuba> Google Docs keeps track of every change in the doc, and when you choose to show a specific version it shows who did what.
21:26 < nuba> let me just confirm it...
21:28 < nuba> is there any pastebin-like tool for screenshots ?
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21:38 <@rizen> flickr?
21:48 < nuba> found these http://imagebin.org/ http://imagebin.ca/ and http://www.imagebin.eu/
21:48 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5458 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/t/Shop/Cart.t: base cart tests
21:49 <@rizen> methinks you should add those to the irc page in the wiki
21:49 < nuba> and the creator of imagebin.ca is working on has this project too http://voicebin.ca/
21:50 < nuba> yeah I was already on my way to do that
21:50 < nuba> but testing them first
21:53 < nuba> all work great http://imagebin.org/14033 http://imagebin.ca/view/dk1Ua4ml.html http://www.imagebin.eu/pics/3c168b1f724c7fa24bb1a10bbb4fd874.jpg
22:00 -!- rizen is now known as rizenisaway
22:03 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5459 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (10 files in 2 dirs): per colin's request design docs are included in the repo
22:11 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: IRC - Edited on 2/15/2008 1:55 pm by nuba  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/irc
22:11 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: Getting Started With Development - Edited on 2/14/2008 7:00 am by knowmad  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/getting-started-with-development
22:11 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: Override Core Modules - Created on 2/14/2008 7:00 am by knowmad  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/override-core-modules
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22:12 < nuba> i disabled the the wiki watch feature yesterday by accident when adding the meta generator info to the bot
22:12 < nuba> all up now
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22:44 < wgGuest31> hello
22:46 < wgGuest31> i have serious problem with spectre
22:46 < wgGuest31> when i start it i have the next error 'jsonToObj' will be obsoleted. Please use 'from_json' instead. at /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8/Config/JSON.pm line 134
22:47 < wgGuest31> i have 7.4.21 installed 
22:47 < wgGuest31> json again
22:49 < wgGuest31> in that server i had installed json 2.6 and config::json 1.1.4
22:51 < wgGuest31> comparing with another server in the same version i noticed that the json version is 1.0 and the config::json is 1.1.1
22:51 < wgGuest31> and tried to install both old versions manually but the problem continues?
22:53 < wgGuest31> what do you suggest me, upgrading to 7.3.24 would be the solution, or what else can i do?
22:57 <@rizenisaway> upgrading to the latest 7.4.x version is your best bet
22:57 < wgGuest31> ok
22:57 < wgGuest31> i am going to do
22:58 < wgGuest31> thanks again
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23:41 <+perlDreamer> rizenisaway: if it's a big pain, then just leave the docs as opendoc.  I don't think you can build tables in POD.
23:45 -!- rizenisaway is now known as rizen
23:45 <@rizen> too late
23:46 <+perlDreamer> Got time for some tax talk?
23:46 < nuba> you could keep the extracted open office file in svn
23:46 < nuba> its xml
23:46 < nuba> actually a bunch of xmls
23:46 < nuba> and stuff
23:47 < nuba> but then you can check out a version, compress, and open on OO
23:47 <+perlDreamer> I'm thinking that the value combination of field and value needs to be unique.
23:47 <+perlDreamer> so that you can't have state=WI more than once
23:47 <@rizen> true
23:47 <@rizen> just to protect people from themselves?
23:48 <@rizen> actually i want to talk to you about that too
23:48 <+perlDreamer> okay
23:48 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5460 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Cron.pm: additional health check
23:48 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5461 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Cron.pm: merging changes from 7.5 branch
23:48 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5462 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/ (11 files): easy docs
23:48 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5463 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/ (8 files): removing generated images
23:48 <@rizen> i was considering that you should be able to do a match against city+state = tax rate
23:49 <@rizen> that way you wouldn't have to type in all the zip codes for a city
23:49 <@rizen> but i couldn't figure out a way to make that work nicely for the user
23:49 <@rizen> cuz in many countries it would be city + country
23:49 <@rizen> rather than city + state
23:50 <+perlDreamer> or city + county
23:50 <@rizen> true
23:50 <@rizen> maybe we better just leave it with zip codes
23:50 <@rizen> more precise
23:50 <+perlDreamer> that brings up my other idea
23:50 <@rizen> ok
--- Day changed Sat Feb 16 2008
00:07 <+perlDreamer> if we just use zip codes will that work internationally?
00:07 <@rizen> yes, all countries have post codes
00:08 <@rizen> at least all countries i've shipped to, which is more than 80 of them
00:08 <+perlDreamer> then we reduce the table schema just to taxId, zipCode and taxRate
00:08 <@rizen> no
00:08 <@rizen> cuz there are taxes you might apply per zip code
00:08 <@rizen> but there might also be state tax
00:09 <@rizen> and there might also be country tax
00:09 <@rizen> so if you put in a state tax of 5.0
00:09 <@rizen> and a particular county has a tax rate of 0.5
00:09 <@rizen> then you just add in the post codes for that county at 0.5
00:09 <@rizen> and together it makes 5.5
00:09 <@rizen> get it?
00:09 <+perlDreamer> yup
00:09 <@rizen> that's why i designed it the way i did
00:10 <@rizen> cuz most of the time you can get away with just applying a tax rate for a country or state
00:10 <@rizen> rather than individual zip codes
00:19 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5464 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/ (cart.pod commerce.pod): seperated the cart doc out on it's own
00:24 <@rizen> webguidev hasn't had so much traffic since the late 6.x days
00:25 <+perlDreamer> Nope :)
00:25 <+perlDreamer> I'm about to do a commit.  Please let me know if I've got the right idea for getItems
00:25 <@rizen> hopefully us discussing stuff out there will inspire some others to help us
00:26 <+perlDreamer> so minor questions here, major stuff out there, or do you want as much traffic as possible?
00:27 <@rizen> we can chat back and forth on here, as it's certainly quicker
00:27 <@rizen> but the more stuff we put out on the dev mailing list the more likely people will be to join us
00:28 <@rizen> cuz there aren't that many people in here
00:28 <@rizen> compared to the dev mailing list subscribers
00:28 <@rizen> not to mention the traffic to the web site that isn't subscribed at all
00:28 <+perlDreamer> but you can track that via page views
00:28 <@rizen> we had over 1 million page views last month
00:28 <@rizen> the largest month in our history
00:32 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5465 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 
00:32 < CIA-40> WebGUI: Add the tax table.
00:32 < CIA-40> WebGUI: Add the getItems method, for accessing the entire tax table.
00:37 <@rizen> yup, that looks right pd
00:37 <@rizen> so are you doing development along side testing?
00:38 <+perlDreamer> one method at a time
00:38 <+perlDreamer> test first, then write the method
00:38 <@rizen> i c
00:38 <@rizen> is that how tdd is supposed to work?
00:38 <@rizen> i thought you were supposed to write all your tests first
00:39 <+perlDreamer> I think that's one style of doing it
00:39 <+perlDreamer> I was reading the wikipedia article on it
00:39 <+perlDreamer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test_driven_development
00:40 <+perlDreamer> What I'm doing is probably closer to the refactoring flow
00:40 <@rizen> hmmm
00:40 <@rizen> well that's cool
00:40 <@rizen> unfortunately i can't do that
00:40 <@rizen> the cart relies on the Sku object
00:41 <@rizen> and the Product object
00:41 <@rizen> to succeed
00:41 <@rizen> maybe i should have started there
00:41 <+perlDreamer> Yeah
00:41 <@rizen> but the cart is my baby
00:41 <@rizen> it's the one i spent the most time on
00:41 <@rizen> =)
00:42 <+perlDreamer> It's all yours, I won't touch it
00:42 <@rizen> that's not what i mean
00:42 <@rizen> just i'm proud of how it's designed
00:43 <@rizen> i think the process flow is so much more elegant than the current one
00:45 <+perlDreamer> Are rates stored as multipliers, or as percentages?  5% vs 0.05
00:45 <@rizen> don't care
00:46 <@rizen> just be consistent
00:46 <@rizen> all of that info is handled inside the tax object
00:46 <@rizen> so it doesn't matter what you do
00:46 <+perlDreamer> Okay, I'll document it as percentage in the doc and the POD.
00:47 <+perlDreamer> Humph, it says it right there.
00:47 <+perlDreamer> "A percentage of the sale price to tax."
00:47  * perlDreamer should be scolded for not reading the spec
01:01 <@rizen> Yeah, but the spec is only a guideline
01:02 <@rizen> don't think it's written in stone
01:02 <+perlDreamer> Okay.
01:09 <+perlDreamer> What's the sales tax in Wisconsin like?
01:09 <@preaction> 0.05 in most places
01:10 <@preaction> i think madison has an additional 0.005 for the city
01:10 <@rizen> madison is a good example
01:10 <@rizen> 5% for state
01:10 <@rizen> 0.5% county (dane)
01:10 <@rizen> 0.05% city (madison)
01:11 <@rizen> do you want some madison zipcodes to test with?
01:11 <+perlDreamer> sure!
01:11 <@rizen> 53701 - 53719
01:11 <@rizen> 53703 is jt's zip
01:11 <@rizen> 53715 is plain black's zip
01:11 <+perlDreamer> we'll tax him more!
01:12 <+perlDreamer> then he can throw some tea in the lakes and declare independence from Dane county and make his own county
01:13 <@rizen> i'm not activist enough to do that
01:14 < nuba> RFE: make 53715 expose an easter egg in the commerce system
01:15 <+perlDreamer> let me guess, there's no 53715?
01:15 <+perlDreamer> oh, no
01:15 <+perlDreamer> nm
01:15 <+perlDreamer> I need a break
01:15 <@preaction> make it change the cart style to black background, white and light-blue text
01:16 < nuba> yes there is http://www.plainblack.com/contact_us
01:18 -!- rizen is now known as rizenhasadate
01:18 <+perlDreamer> ALL RIGHT!
01:19 < nuba> have fun
01:21 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5466 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (3 files in 2 dirs): started cart tests, realizing need to build sku first
01:28 <+perlDreamer> Only 88 commits to 5555
01:43 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5467 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 
01:43 < CIA-40> WebGUI: Fix a bug in the upgrade script, with a default applied to the wrong column.
01:43 < CIA-40> WebGUI: Built the add method, and tested it, too.
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08:00 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5468 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Tax.pm t/Shop/Tax.t): Tax: add the delete method, with tests
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09:02 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5469 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Tax.pm t/Shop/Tax.t): 
09:02 < CIA-40> WebGUI: Add input validation for the add method, and test it.
09:02 < CIA-40> WebGUI: Now it's time for the import and export methods.
09:18 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5469 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Tax.pm t/Shop/Tax.t): 
09:18 < CIA-40> WebGUI: Add input validation for the add method, and test it.
09:18 < CIA-40> WebGUI: Now it's time for the import and export methods.
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15:41 < BartJol> Hi Khenn, already awake on satrurday?
15:51 <@khenn> yeah, exercising =)  I'll be working a bit later
15:52 < BartJol> mm, your even strager than I thought
15:53 < BartJol> darn, my english is not very good on saturdays
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16:47 <@apeiron> Greetings from Frozen Perl 2008!
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18:22 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5470 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/sku.pod: separating sku docs from main commerce docs
18:22 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5471 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/commerce.pod: separating sku from main
18:22 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5472 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/sku.pod: formatting problem
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19:47 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5473 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Tax.pm t/Shop/Tax.t): 
19:47 < CIA-40> WebGUI: Added the export method.
19:47 < CIA-40> WebGUI: Basic tests for the export method. Need to check the CSV file
19:47 < CIA-40> WebGUI: to make sure it's created correctly.
19:52 < diakopter> help, anyone?  Spectre did not start successfully.  Can't locate object method "autoconv" via package "JSON" at /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/JSON.pm line 136. 
19:55 < BartJol> have you perfomed an update?
20:07 < nuba> whoa JSON is biting me too! on a HEAD setup, fresh install, w/ JSON and Config::JSON updated, I'm getting this error:
20:07 < nuba> malformed JSON string, neither array, object, number, string or atom, at character offset 0 ["(end of string)"] at /data/wre/prereqs/perl/lib/site_perl/5.8.8/JSON.pm line 154.
20:10 < nuba> any ideas?
20:10 < BartJol> well, something to do with json versions
20:10 < BartJol> depends on the wre/webgui version you're using whether you have to up or doengrade json
20:11 < nuba> im using HEAD, meta generator says WebGUI 7.5.3
20:11 < nuba> but on WRE 0.7.x
20:12 < BartJol> you can look on
20:12 < BartJol> http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/spectre-broken-due-to-json/6
20:12 < nuba> maybe the guilt of not updating the WRE to 0.8.1 is coming back to haunt me ;)
20:12 < BartJol> could very well be
20:13 < nuba> earlier today I was all too happly checking out wg_reset from tools, only to find out it wont work in this WRE
20:14 < nuba> BartJol: read it all, thx. what I have here is latest WebGUI, latest JSON and Config::JSON, vintage WRE
20:15 < BartJol> mmm
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20:17 < nuba> im not fretting, i'll be migrating my dev environment to another machien this monday
20:17 < cap10morgan> For 7.4.24, should I use Config::JSON 1.1.2 or is 1.1.4 OK?
20:18 < BartJol> i don't know exactly what's happening, already tried wiki or forum, there are more json problems, maybe there is something on it
20:18 < nuba> it would be great if someone familiar with the JSON version issues could produce a wiki page
20:18 < nuba> and add a link to it to the topic
20:19 < BartJol> it would
20:19 < nuba> theres a stream of people coming here with JSON issues and questions about versions and all that
20:21 < nuba> and after learning they have to install another version, then they have to learn how to do that with cpan
20:21 < cap10morgan> nuba: yeah, cpan claims 1.1.1 is up to date. :)
20:22 < BartJol> fortunately, I'm not that man
20:22 < nuba> see. its confusing.
20:24  * cap10morgan is doing a manual install of Config::JSON 1.1.2
20:33 < diakopter> nuba: where did you get wg_reset
20:34 < diakopter> nuba: nm
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20:54 < cap10morgan> how do you run WebGUI's perl test suite?
21:04 <@apeiron> nuba, 
21:04 <@apeiron> perlbot, life with cpan
21:04 < perlbot> Information pertaining to the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN) can be found at http://sial.org/howto/perl/life-with-cpan/
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21:08 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: spell checker - Created on 2/16/2008 12:57 pm by elnino  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/spell-checker
21:17 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: spell checker - Edited on 2/16/2008 1:06 pm by elnino  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/spell-checker
21:20 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: spell checker - Edited on 2/16/2008 1:10 pm by elnino  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/spell-checker
21:34 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: spell checker - Edited on 2/16/2008 1:24 pm by elnino  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/spell-checker
22:05 < nuba> apeiron: i'm using CPAN since 2000, but thx anyway
22:06 <@preaction> cap10morgan, cd /data/WebGUI/t; WEBGUI_CONFIG=/data/WebGUI/etc/yourconfig.conf prove -r
22:06 < cap10morgan> preaction: cool, thanks. i found the wiki page also (dev's guide to testing webgui), which was very helpful.
22:07 < nuba> apeiron: i was saying about these people that come here lost re: the JSON ongoing issue
22:07 < nuba> glad to see GooeyOfSteel working
22:07 <@preaction> yeah
22:15 <@apeiron> nuba, I mean you could give people that link. )
22:15 <@apeiron> er, :)
22:17 < nuba> well im not familiar with what combinations of versions (JSON, Config::JSON, WebGUI, WRE) are borken or not
22:17 < nuba> someone, possibly from plainblack, will be more suited to write a wiki article on that than me
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23:39 < nuba> heh is this you, rizen ? http://www.bash.org/?4488
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00:15 < elnino> Hi. I did an upgrade to 7.4.24 and my /home doesn't work anymore.
00:16 < elnino> I went into settings and the hover help is no longer there. 
00:16 < elnino> Does this all seemm right to you? I didn't see anything about this in the gotch file.
00:16 < elnino> the maintainace page is still up after restarting apache twice and starting spectre
00:17 < elnino> there were no errors during the upgrade.pl process. Should I revert? or does this all seem right?
00:18 < elnino> I upgraded from 7.3.22 to 7.4.24
00:40 < elnino> I need close this connection, but I will be back on shortly
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00:55 < elnino> ok. the maintenance page finally went away. It must have been cached in the browser, because I had already tried caching it in webgui.
00:56 < elnino> Still wondering about the hoverhelp though. Are they all supposed to be "spelled out" on the edit page? Or am I missing javascript files somewhere?
01:19 < elnino> spectre icons are missing in the admin menu. Where may I find them?
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02:49 < wld> help
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03:11 <@preaction> uhm... que?
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03:16 < Radix__> help?
03:18 < maritimus> That was a mistype Radix
03:21 < Radix__> good to hear
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03:55 < diakopter> wre 0.8.1, webgui svn latest, JSON errors.  anyone have a suggestion?
03:59 <@rizen> get the latest versions of sbin and lib out of wrebuild
04:00 <@rizen> they are fixed for the new json
04:00 <@rizen> wrebuild in svn
04:01 < diakopter> rizen: thanks! :)
05:16 < diakopter> rizen: do I also need a new Config::JSON ?
05:16 <@rizen> yup
05:17 < diakopter> darn out-of-date cpan mirrors.
05:17 < diakopter> anyone know of a good http one?
05:18 < diakopter> trying http://mirrors.kernel.org/cpan/
05:26 <@rizen> just go to search.cpan.org and download
05:29 < diakopter> rizen: ended up doing that.
05:29 < diakopter> Image/ExifTool.pm and Archive/Any.pm missing from the wre
05:30 < diakopter> 0.8.1 that is. i assume it's in the svn edition
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06:48 <+perlDreamer> Phew
06:48 <+perlDreamer> Just got done with some language work
06:48 <+perlDreamer> It's hard managing a burgeoning 8 year old Spanish translator
06:48 <+perlDreamer> nuba, please forgive me for anything too coarse or wrong
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07:18 <+perlDreamer> jdferm, if you have questions, just ask them
07:18 <+perlDreamer> It's really slow tonight
07:18 <+perlDreamer> and you don't have to ask permission to ask
07:18 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: ask
07:18 < perlbot> Don't ask to ask, just ask.
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07:38 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5474 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/t/Shop/Tax.t: check the CSV output made by export
07:43 < jdferm> Thanks... 
07:43 < jdferm> I was just dropping in to lurk a bit.
07:44 < jdferm> I've gotten about to my wits end with CMS's. I started with Drupal & realized I would need to know CSS to really get anything looking right.
07:44 < jdferm> So I went to Joomla!, and during the "migration" to a new version it thrashed the entire website.
07:45 < jdferm> Then I tried typo3, and found it confusing as heck.
07:45 < jdferm> So now I'm checking out the demo version of webgui & figured I'd lurk here to see what people were saying :D
07:51 <@preaction> i just finished compiling the WRE for OpenBSD 4.2-RELEASE. worked rather nicely
07:58 <@preaction> GooeyOfSteel, help?
07:59 <@preaction> humm... not implemented yet
07:59 <@preaction> there's a very nice article on "How to give WebGUI your own style" on http://wiki.webgui.org
07:59 <@preaction> plus some nice contributed theme packages in the Get Add Ons section
08:00 < jdferm> nice. thanks for the heads up
08:01 <@preaction> WebGUI has some learning curve, but for the most part it's pretty straightforward to get what you want
08:01 <@preaction> just need to know about Style templates (which that article explains) and Asset templates (which are the individual applications/content templates)
08:02 <@preaction> for the most part, you shouldn't need to worry about the Asset templates
08:02 <@preaction> so it's really just a matter of putting <head><tmpl_var head.tags></head><body><tmpl_var body.content></body>
08:03 < jdferm> and miracle of miracles it took me all of 3 minutes to find documentation on how to add a template
08:04 < jdferm> I spent over an hour trying to find info like that for typo3 tonight.
08:04 <@preaction> nice
08:04 < jdferm> then I finally gave up & started looking for a new CMS :D
08:04 <@preaction> good to hear that it can be found. the community's been working hard trying to get better docs out there
08:04 < jdferm> Looks like the wiki has great info
08:05 <@preaction> in addition to the old Help system (used to be on-line help, but we removed it to shave about 15M off resident memory), there's all the stuff that people have added
08:06 <@preaction> for some reason i got it into my head to build a dedicated regression test box using OpenBSD...
08:06 <@preaction> and it's been going surprisingly smooth
08:06 < jdferm> wow. Heck of a way to spend a saturday night ;)
08:06 <@preaction> i would suggest using the WRE to install WebGUI's prerequisites. it has great tools for managing WebGUI as well.
08:07 <@preaction> it's just easier than trying to manage the prereqs yourself
08:07 <@preaction> something that Perl programs tend to have difficulty with
08:07 < jdferm> I'll talk with the SA of the box that I'll be installing this on. He shouldn't have a problem with it.
08:08 <@preaction> yeah, that's what I said the first time. couple hours to get the prereqs installed and a webgui site created. used the WRE and i did it in 15 minutes
08:09 <@preaction> the docs work, but i kept second-guessing them and trying to do things the way i thought my distro wanted them done
08:09 <@preaction> plus it was an ubuntu system, so it's got the weird httpd.conf
08:13 < jdferm> ahh the system I'll be installing on is ubuntu
08:15 <@preaction> bonne chance. it shouldn't be exceedingly hard except for getting all the packages from APT
08:15 < jdferm> is webgui available via apt-get?
08:15 <@preaction> but still, the WRE is easier, and there's probably a pre-built for your version (i know there's a Dapper out there)
08:15 <@preaction> not yet, no
08:15 < jdferm> kk
08:16 <@preaction> it's proposed for the next Debian, so it might make it to ubuntu eventually
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20:28 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: How to Build the WRE on OpenBSD - Created on 2/17/2008 12:17 pm by DBell  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/how-to-build-the-wre-on-openbsd
20:28 <@preaction> wow, GooeyOfSteel is quick on the uptake
20:28 <@preaction> but for one slight problem, it used my username, not my alias
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21:25 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: How to Build the WRE on OpenBSD - Edited on 2/17/2008 1:14 pm by DBell  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/how-to-build-the-wre-on-openbsd
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22:46 <@preaction> apeiron, when you compiled the WRE for FreeBSD, did you need to do anything to the modproxy or modperl Listen directives?
23:04 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: WRE Installation - Edited on 2/17/2008 2:53 pm by DBell  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/wre-installation
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00:40 <@preaction> there is so much fun we could have with integrated statistics...
00:40 <@preaction> plus we'd get rid of awstats, since it's a beast and sucks
00:41 <@preaction> passive stats from processing Apache logs, plus active stats with JS AJAX stuff, or the google analytics-type stuff (iframe or img that gets a CGI page)
00:44 <@apeiron> preaction, I don't believe so, no, nothing that wasn't done already.
00:44 <@preaction> humph...
00:45 <@preaction> i couldn't get apache to translate IPv4 requests to IPv6 addresses, so it wouldn't respond to 127.0.0.1
00:45 <@preaction> i added it to the wiki page and the readme.txt, so hopefully people will figure it out
00:45 <@preaction> don't think too many people who use OpenBSD also use WebGUI
00:46 <@preaction> its running our new dedicated smoke test box though
00:46 <@apeiron> I can't imagine why you'd go with Open rather than Free myself, but /me shrugs.
00:46 <@preaction> once i get the program working
00:46 <@apeiron> For WebGUI at least.
00:47 <@preaction> i've got a specific set of conditions that must be met for me to run OpenBSD for something, including "Doesn't need to co-exist with windows computers" and "for the fun of it" ;-)
00:47 <@apeiron> A VM would work well for that, heh.
00:47 <@preaction> oh, "never holds sensitive data that may need recovery", but that's BSD in general now
00:47 <@preaction> due to my efforts to mount UFS2 under Linux... not fun
00:48 <@apeiron> shrug. I've had UFS's crash before and have recovered stuff.
00:48 <@preaction> it's not the recovery so much as i needed to shuffle stuff around to free up a hard drive
00:48 <@preaction> the hard drive that was booting freebsd
00:49 <@preaction> i still need to find a cluster filesystem that runs on something other than Solaris
00:49 <@apeiron> Does ZFS count?
00:52 <@preaction> zfs clusters over a network?
00:52 <@preaction> sun has lustre, which is their cluster FS. and i think they have a linux driver for it, but not sure about its stability
00:53 <@apeiron> Oh, wow, that's probably not what ZFS is for. :)
00:53 <@rizen> apeiron: how was frozen perl?
00:53 <@apeiron> rizen, Awesome. Quite educational.
00:53 <@rizen> r u back home now?
00:53 <@apeiron> Indeed.
00:53 <@preaction> i know the samba group is working on a cluster file system too, but i don't know their status either
00:53 <@rizen> what was the best talk..and what was it about?
00:54 <@apeiron> Hmm. I think I enjoyed theone about Parrot the most because that was the subject about which I was most curious.
00:54 <@rizen> care to comment on the state of parrot?
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00:55 <@apeiron> ha. I'm not one to make that kind of statement. I'd probably be wrong.
00:55 <@apeiron> The talk wasn't so much about the state of parrot so much as the internals.
00:58 <@apeiron> hmm. Come to think of it I think there was a perl.com article on that recently. Either that or state of perl6 (which is dependent upon Parrot).
00:59 <@rizen> yeah i read that stuff
00:59 <@rizen> just haven't seen it hands on
00:59 <@rizen> don't have time to experiment much these days
00:59 <@rizen> too busy running a company
00:59 <@rizen> =)
00:59 <@apeiron> I think the basic position about its state is that they're... recovering, as it were, from the political issues, but still making progress.
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01:00 <@apeiron> Dan Sidhe I think it was made at least one blog post detailing the political stuff, his clashes with Leo, etc.
01:03 <@rizen> are you guys old enough to remember knight rider?
01:04 <@rizen> the new series premiers tonight
01:05 <@preaction> nobody can beat The Hoff...
01:05 <@preaction> don't they have Matt Damon or someone in his place?
01:05 <@rizen> the hoff is in it
01:05 <@rizen> i think the hoff takes on miles role in this one
01:05 <@rizen> the "mentor" or whatever
01:06 <@rizen> he still plays michael knight...just hands the reigns of driving off to some other dude
01:06 <@preaction> no, Kilmer is KITT, that's who i was thinking of
01:07 <@apeiron> I'm barely old enough to remember it. Never watched it.
01:07 <@preaction> tonight you say? might have to try it out
01:07 <@rizen> the new car is amazing looking
01:07 <@rizen> it's on nbc 
01:07 <@rizen> a 2 hour movie
01:07 <@rizen> to kick it off
01:08 <@rizen> the other thing is that discovery channel has this real life jurrasic park kind of thing on
01:08 <@rizen> doing something with reconstituting dino dna
01:13 < CIA-40> WebGUI: doug * r5475 /wrebuild/ (build.sh readme.txt): Added OpenBSD to the list of build possibilities
01:16 <@preaction> this is the weirdest thing... i can run webgui. i'm sitting here playing with the WebGUI site, but running the tests gives me errors
01:17 <@apeiron> On OpenBSD?
01:17 <@preaction> http://webgui.pastebin.com/d469bd6fb
01:17 <@preaction> yes
01:19 <@apeiron> hmm.
01:19 <@apeiron> And that's the first error?
01:20 <@preaction> yes
01:20 <@preaction> because it can't load WebGUI::Session, everything else breaks
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01:22 <@apeiron> But obviously you're running the site fine.
01:22 <@apeiron> So logically the first step, to me at least, seems to point to investigating how the test suite loads the APR bits, yes?
01:25 <@preaction> Apache2::Request needs it.
01:27 <@preaction> and typing 'reset' into my terminal gives the same error for some reason
01:27 <@apeiron> As the tests failing? oO
01:35 <@preaction> just the undefined symbol error
01:35 <@apeiron> weird.
01:37 <@apeiron> And there isn't a "reset" command installed as part of WebGUI right?
01:58 <@preaction> not that i'm aware of
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02:05 <@preaction> it seems that libapr knows where it is, but libaprutil doesn't
02:14 <@apeiron> hmm. Does Open still ship with Apache? If so, is it possible at all that it's clashing with that Apache?
02:15 <@preaction> it ships with apache 1.3
02:16 <@preaction> i don't think apache 1.3 had APR
02:16 <@apeiron> So fairly unlikely that it's causing an issue then.
02:19 <@preaction> it seems like libapr-0.so.9.16 isn't getting loaded when I 'use Apache2::Request'
02:26 <@preaction> when i change LD_PRELOAD=/data/wre/prereqs/lib/libapr-0.so.9.16, i get a new error. i think i have to preload all the libraries
02:27 <@apeiron> Hmm, perhaps a difference in the way OpenBSD's ld.so works?
02:27 <@apeiron> I wouldn't think it'd be so different from FreeBSD, but maybe it needs to be to be portable?
02:28 <@preaction> when i put both libapr and libaprutil into LD_PRELOAD it works
02:34 <@preaction> i swear. why is THIS problem easier to diagnose than an HTTP POST with a Redirect response POSTing again automatically...
02:37 <@apeiron> Possibly because you get loud failures with reasons explaining the failures?
02:38 <@preaction> must be
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02:39 <@preaction> well, the post problem was obvious too, the second request had variables it shouldn't have
03:03 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5476 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/commerce.pod: 
03:03 < CIA-40> WebGUI: Subs named import do special things in perl. Renaming
03:03 < CIA-40> WebGUI: import and export to importTaxData and exportTaxData,
03:03 < CIA-40> WebGUI: respectively.
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04:58 < perlmonkey2> I haven't had time to program much on wg (polishing the work app for viewing by the people who pay our grant), but I'm trying really hard to extrapolate a automated way of doing 2.0 stuff like wg works now.  With param types/forms being automagically handled.
04:58 < perlmonkey2> No need for templates, at least in the asset edit/configure pages.
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05:48 <@Haarg> found a way to have mod_proxy only use mod_perl for uploads in they aren't world readable
05:49 <+perlDreamer> You're a beastie!
05:49 <+perlDreamer> How does it work?
05:49 <@Haarg> i can't think of any weaknesses at this point
05:49 <@Haarg> using rewrite rules to detect the presence of a .wgaccess file
05:49 <@Haarg> if it doesn't exist, it assumes it is world readable
05:50 <@Haarg> then storage needs to be modified to not write the .wgaccess file for world readable locations
05:50 <@Haarg> but that's a small change
05:50  * apeiron saw "you're a beastie" and thought it was a BSD discussion...
05:51 <+perlDreamer> Just don't forget to modify the tests to account for that.
05:52 <@Haarg> doesn't look like any tests look for wgaccess at this point
05:52 <@preaction> so before i release this new dedicated test box to the world, i should probably figure out why these tests fail on OpenBSD but not CentOS
05:52 <+perlDreamer> Yup.
05:52 <+perlDreamer> Or MacOSX
05:52 <+perlDreamer> or Ubuntu
06:22 <@preaction> looks like you need to be root to run the tests
06:25 <+perlDreamer> that's not good
06:25 <+perlDreamer> I wondery why
06:26 <@preaction> FileCache can't chmod / chown the /tmp/WebGUICache/* folder
06:26 <@preaction> s
06:26 <@preaction> and then prove seems to go all wonky
06:34 <@apeiron> What's the Unix file permissions on /tmp?
06:34 <+perlDreamer> 777?
06:35 <@apeiron> Not good enough.
06:35 <@apeiron> Needs to be sticky.
06:35 <+perlDreamer> yeah, I think that's actually a wG bug
06:35 <@apeiron> well
06:35 <@apeiron> /tmp itself has always needed to be sticky.
06:35 <+perlDreamer> we tell people to set it up to be writable by the httpd user
06:35 <+perlDreamer> but then spectre and the updated come along and muck things up
06:36 <+perlDreamer> since they run as root
06:36 <@apeiron> All the systems I've run across have had a /tmp set up properly.
06:36 <@apeiron> Although I admit I haven't mucked with OpenBSD in several years, and certainly not now that they're into the 4.x releases.
06:36 <+perlDreamer> everything that touches uploads and the fileCache needs to be done as the wG user.
06:36 <+perlDreamer> whoever it is
06:39 <+perlDreamer> So I'm writing the tests for importing tax data from a CSV file
06:39 <+perlDreamer> and I'm pretty sure that I should test for bad file contents
06:39 <+perlDreamer> should that be dynamically created for each test, or a directory full of ugly looking CSV files?
06:40 <@preaction> the import function can't take a string?
06:41 <@rizen> Spectre deoesn't need to run as root, but even if it does, that shouldn't cause any problems cuz spectre doesn't interact with the FS
06:42 <@rizen> i think the test box should run haiku
06:42 <@preaction> ooh BeOS
06:42 <+perlDreamer> ImportTaxData takes a file path to a CSV file
06:43 <+perlDreamer> a string would be easier
06:43 <+perlDreamer> I guess I could decompose it
06:43 <+perlDreamer> WGBP advises line based I/O, rather than slurping.
06:43 <+perlDreamer> but the dataset is small
06:44 <@rizen> the dataset could be pretty big
06:44 <+perlDreamer> 1000 lines?
06:44 <@rizen> if there were specific tax data worldwide
06:44 <@rizen> no...think one entry for every postal code world wide
06:44 <+perlDreamer> oh
06:44 <+perlDreamer> 5 digits
06:44 <@rizen> 9 digits in the us
06:45 <@preaction> or more
06:45 <+perlDreamer> okay, line based it is
06:45 <@rizen> six digits in canada
06:45 <+Radix-wrk> 4 digits in australia
06:45 <+perlDreamer> I'll make a subdirectory for it in the test collateral area
06:45 <+perlDreamer> (God bless the Australians)
06:46 <@rizen> and canada is AlphaNumeric digits...so make sure it accepts alphanum
06:46 <+perlDreamer> So the problem child is really the updater, being run as root?
06:46 <+Radix-wrk> UK is six digits alpha too
06:46 <@apeiron> Ten in the US if you want the - between the 5 and the 4
06:46 <+perlDreamer> 6?
06:46 <+perlDreamer> oh, UK
06:47 <+perlDreamer> It's getting late, and I am extra cranky today
06:47 <+perlDreamer> Trying to learn a new keyboard layout
06:47 <+Radix-wrk> why?
06:47 <+perlDreamer> The Kuskie family made some small contributions to wG i18n this weekend
06:47 <+Radix-wrk> Ahh.. spanish I think you said?
06:47 <+perlDreamer> and it's easier to type spanish using the US International keyboard
06:47  * rizen is thinking about taking a pee but it's so cold outside
06:48 <+perlDreamer> but for some reason, it is ignoring my choice of meta key
06:48 <+Radix-wrk> don't pee on the electric fence!
06:48 <+perlDreamer> and forcing me to type quote-space to get a literal quote
06:48 <+Radix-wrk> don't eat the yellow snow!
06:48 <+perlDreamer> do not _make_ the yellow snow
06:48 <@rizen> i have to make the yellow snow
06:48 <@rizen> no water in my house
06:48 <+perlDreamer> What happened?
06:48 <+Radix-wrk> no water?
06:48 <@rizen> busted water line today
06:49 <+Radix-wrk> yikes
06:49 <@rizen> it was disaster weekend at my house
06:49 <+perlDreamer> Did it freeze from the cold?
06:49 <@rizen> on saturday i got back my computer (gaming rig) from the shop after they had it 6 weeks, and it still doesn't work
06:49 <+Radix-wrk> heh.. disaster weekend here for me.. no broken water line, but lost 700GB of data thanks to an overeager NAS!
06:49 <@preaction> rizen, dear jesus... how long has that thing been out of commission now?
06:50 <@rizen> today my garage almost flooded, so i went out and bought a pump and pumped it out
06:50 <+perlDreamer> Oh, just drive to the office and use their bathroom
06:50 <@rizen> right after i finished pumping out the garage area the water line broke and flooded my kitchen
06:51 <@rizen> luckily i was home so i caught it before it got too bad
06:51 <@rizen> but sarah was absolutely drenched with freezing water
06:51 <+perlDreamer> wife-cicle
06:51 <@rizen> indeed
06:51 <+perlDreamer> does it get that cold in your house that the pipes freeze and burst?
06:51 <@rizen> it didn't freeze from the cold...somehow the water created a pressure bubble in the copper pipe
06:52 <+perlDreamer> PEX
06:52 <@rizen> no, it was an insulated pipe, and it was inside the house, and it was 65 in here when it blew
06:52 <+perlDreamer> PEX is supposed to be burst proof because it will expand under high pressure
06:53 <+perlDreamer> anyway, I'm getting off topic
06:54 <@rizen> preaction: it's been out for 8 weeks now...this time. but overall its been out of commission for 5 of the 13 months i've owned it
06:54 <@rizen> total lemon
06:54 <@preaction> i'd say
06:55 <+perlDreamer> will you home insurance cover it all?
06:57 <+perlDreamer> "yes I want to overwrite it.  The old stuff is garbled crap to quote my friend JT" --Kathy
06:57 <+perlDreamer> You've created a meme.
06:57 <+perlDreamer> Next, it will show up on t-shirts at ThinkGeek, then Wikipedia
06:59 <@rizen> there's no real damage to our house...just need to fix a pipe
06:59 <@rizen> plumber is coming tomorrow
06:59 <@rizen> if it were pvc i'd fix it, but since it's copper i don't want to mess with it
07:00 <@rizen> i
07:00 <+perlDreamer> PEX is good stuff.  Cheaper per foot than copper or PVC, cheaper to install.  more robust.
07:00 <@rizen> i'm pretty good at soldiering, but not good enough to be sure
07:00 <@rizen> PEX is irrelevant, this is copper
07:00 <+perlDreamer> I'm going to replumb my house with it
07:00 <@rizen> what is kathy referring to in that comment?
07:01 <+perlDreamer> A GnuCash report.  XML == Garbled Crap
07:01 <@rizen> your whole house? is it in need of being replumbed?
07:01 <+perlDreamer> Yes and no
07:01 <+perlDreamer> We're moving the location of sinks, washer and dryer and hot water heater.
07:01 <@preaction> sounds fun
07:01 <+perlDreamer> So being frost proof and easily hackable is a good thing to do.
07:02 <+perlDreamer> For practice, I'm rewiring the whole house
07:02 <+perlDreamer> PEX does not use glue or solder.  It is all pressure fittings
07:02 <@preaction> for practice?
07:03 <+perlDreamer> Well, the wiring in the attic
07:03 <+perlDreamer> all the sheathing is breaking down and rotting out
07:03 <+perlDreamer> So I have been pulling new wires to replace them
07:03 <+perlDreamer> To finish it out, we will put in a new circuit breaker box and move it out of the living
07:03 <+perlDreamer> room into the new garage that we had built last summer
07:04 <@rizen> i've personally wired 3 different houses top to bottom. it's not hard when the building is gutted or going up, but it's a total pain once the drywall is up
07:04 <+perlDreamer> yeah
07:04 <@preaction> i've got plaster / lathe. i do not envy having to rewire this place
07:04 <+perlDreamer> Just buy a fishtape, and check into "new-work" boxes.
07:05 <@rizen> plaster/lathe is usually easier because they didn't insulate those old houses as much
07:05 <+perlDreamer> yeah, stay on inside walls
07:05 <+perlDreamer> Also, my wife is a skilled drywall patcher nowadays
07:05 <@preaction> ... if i open up the external walls and find shit for insulation i'm going to be extremely ticked off... and there's going to be a huge project...
07:06 <+perlDreamer> how old is your house?
07:06 <@preaction> interior walls, they insulate those nowadays?
07:06 <@rizen> drywall isn't hard...if you've got a lot of wiring/plumbing to do it may just be easier to drop the old walls and do it from scratch
07:06 <@preaction> i'm guessing about 80 years, could be more
07:06 <+perlDreamer> oy
07:06 <@preaction> best-guess the city has is 80 years
07:06 <+perlDreamer> No insulation in there at all, likely
07:06 <@preaction> er.. +50 years
07:06 <@preaction> that might explain the $250+ heating bill...
07:07 <+perlDreamer> or living in Wisconsin
07:09 <@preaction> ... you might be right. there might be 0 insulation in the walls...
07:09 <@preaction> well, that solves the problem of how to repair the walls after i rewire
07:10 <@rizen> if it was built before 1950 you're lucky if there is anything more than newspaper in the walls
07:10 <@preaction> and the parents keep telling me "Don't spend too much money fixing the place up..."
07:11 <@rizen> some of the old houses i've remodeled i found no insulation, but found license plates, old clothes, newspaper, racy magazines, and tools
07:11 <@preaction> nice
07:12 <@rizen> as far as spending money..it depends upon what you want out of the place...if you're going to live there, then make it as nice as you want
07:12 <+perlDreamer> y'all need to winter in Hillsboro
07:12 <@rizen> if you want to turn it into a rental or sell it, then don't stick too much into it
07:12 <+perlDreamer> 11 degrees for a high
07:12 <+perlDreamer> sheesh
07:17 <@preaction> i guess i am planning to live here at least 5 years, so while i'm here i may as well fix as much as possible
07:17 <@preaction> this might be the best house that i end up owning (until i buy a single-family)
07:19 <@preaction> i mean. doesn't adding insulation, new wiring, new plumbing, add to the value of the house?
07:20 <+perlDreamer> yes, but it might not return 1:1
07:20 <@rizen> absolutely..but depending on market conditions, the location of your house, and other factors...
07:20 <@preaction> ah
07:20 <@preaction> it's a gamble
07:20 <@rizen> honestly, when flipping the thing that adds value to the house is bathrooms, kitchens, and bedroom count
07:20 <+perlDreamer> No, a realtor could tell you how much it will increase the cost of your house
07:21 <+perlDreamer> or a contractor
07:21 <@preaction> one of the contractors gave me an idea to charge $X for rent + heat (X being the approximate value of 1/2 mortgage + average current heat bill)
07:21 <@preaction> so when i fix the windows / insulation, $X means more money
07:22 <@rizen> you should charge whatever the highest amount the market will bear
07:23 <@preaction> right, the market will bear more when there's more percieved value. if the current average elec/heat bill is $200, and I charge $725, when i fix things and bring the heat/elec bill down to $100 avg, that's another $100 for me. 
07:23 <@preaction> otherwise i just charge the $525 for rent
07:24 <@preaction> insulating and fixing windows is now almost worthless, except for keeping tenants
07:24 <@preaction> it's another gamble, of course
07:27  * perlDreamer wishes to renew his older gripe about hash slicing
07:29 <@preaction> uh... line 119 of lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Cron.pm seems to only return the params if the params are the empty string, that's wrong?
07:30 <@preaction> it fixes the tests that were failing, so i guess so
07:30 <+perlDreamer> s/eq/ne/?
07:31 <@preaction> yeah
07:31 <@preaction> the question is were they failing on the existing smoketest box?
07:32 <+perlDreamer> tests 26-29?
07:32 <@preaction> they weren't... why not?
07:32 <@rizen> it's times like these that i'm glad to have a pub open next to my house
07:32 <@preaction> nm, they were
07:32 <+perlDreamer> We don't have a Cron test yet, perhaps?
07:33 <@preaction> Spectre/Workflow.t is failing, and some tests in Group.t and User.t
07:34 <@rizen> perlDreamer: there is no hash at that line
07:34 <@rizen> parameters is still a string
07:34 <+perlDreamer> right but it says if the string is blank, then it's okay
07:34 <+perlDreamer> and it should be that if it is not blank, it is okay
07:35 <@preaction> yeah. i've fixed it and will be checking it in
07:35 <+perlDreamer> does the test pass now?
07:35 <@rizen> oh i see
07:35 <@rizen> what are you talking about with hash slicing then?
07:35 <@rizen> what does that mean?
07:35 <@preaction> $hash->{ "keyone","keytwo","keythree" }
07:36 <@preaction> but i think his problem is @hash{"keyone","keytwo"}
07:36 <@rizen> none of what you just typed has any meaning for me
07:36 <@rizen> nor does it appear to have anything to do with line 119 of Cron.pm
07:37 <+perlDreamer> No, he is responing to my previous hash slice gripe
07:37 <@preaction> you can get an array of values out of a hash by using my %hash = ( a => 1, b => 2); print @hash{"a","b"};
07:37 <@preaction> no, i fixed 119. the tests pass now
07:37 <@rizen> oh
07:37 <+perlDreamer> but I do not think $hash->{@arr} is really a slice
07:37 <+perlDreamer> @{ $hash }{@arr} is a slice
07:37 <@rizen> sorry, i didn't realize we were talking about different things
07:37 <@preaction> i never remember how to take a slice of a hashref
07:38 <@preaction> $hash is not an array ref, it's a hash ref
07:38 <@preaction> that's my only gripe about hash slices, hashref slices gets weird
07:38 <+perlDreamer> right, but you have to sigil it as an array to slice it
07:39 <+perlDreamer> if we had %hash, we'd use @hash to slice it
07:39 <+perlDreamer> if you have a hashref, you have to tell it to consider it a "hashslice", defined by the following index field
07:39 <@preaction> right, but @{} is a deref, not just a sigil change. i think that i agreed with you and was wrong
07:40 <@preaction> but then, a simple test would prove it either way
07:40 <+perlDreamer> see Shop::Tax line 121
07:41 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI::Shop::Tax in the commerce branch
07:42 <@preaction> i fixed the Macro/SQL.t, which was failing because i had a user with NULL as a username for some reason... but User.t and Group.t are failing because of the by IP tests... 
07:43 <@preaction> but that's obviously an IPv6 / IPv4 problem
07:43 <+perlDreamer> time to go stretch
07:43 <+perlDreamer> catch you later guys
07:43 <@preaction> cya
07:43 <@rizen> bye
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07:46 <@rizen> preaction...so since this machine will become the test rig
07:46 <@rizen> does that mean it will also take over nightly builds?
07:47 <@preaction> i was thinking no, mainly because it would then have to upload them to frozen
07:47 <@rizen> isn't it going to upload the test results to frozen?
07:48 <@preaction> yeah
07:48 <@preaction> currently i have a WWW::Mechanize script publishing a new thread to the smoketests forum
07:48 <@rizen> why not just email it in?
07:48 <@rizen> wouldn't that be more foolproof?
07:49 <@preaction> probably, but it already works ;)
07:49 <@preaction> plus i couldn't attach a file using e-mail, if that would work for the Devel::Cover report
07:50 <@rizen> why not?
07:50 <@rizen> email handles attachments
07:51 <@preaction> eh, i can change it once i start adding Devel::Cover and making the box create the site, run the tests, and then delete the site (so we can run tests against newly-created sites, the site starter wizard, and etc...)
08:04 <@preaction> i think these tests are failing because my network's subnet is 192.168.0.0/16, and so the visitor and admin user last logged in from one of those addresses, throwing off the Test::Deep comparison with those two user IDs
08:05 <@rizen> do you think there's any reason to make webgui IPv6 compatible, and what would it take to do that?
08:07 <@preaction> i don't see it as a priority, it will be necessary someday of course
08:08 <@rizen> yeah, doesn't seem like IPv6 adoption is moving forward quickly
08:08 <@preaction> if the tools we're using to compare subnets / IP addresses support IPv6, then it might be as simple as changing data fields to accept IPv6 string size
08:08 <@preaction> but probably not that simple
08:09 <@preaction> i can't think of many places outside of User and Group that we check IPs, and those use Net::Subnets
08:09 <@preaction> not sure if Net::Subnets can handle IPv6 though
08:09 <@rizen> spectre stuff
08:09 <@rizen> and no it can't...at least as of the version that was out when i started using it
08:10 <@preaction> which is the same version out now from what i see, 0.21
08:11 <@preaction> nope, it's expecting 32-bit addresses
08:16 <@preaction> it's something to keep in the back burner probably, and i've found the module that'll do it: http://search.cpan.org/~luismunoz/NetAddr-IP-4.007/Lite/Lite.pm
08:17 <@rizen> wow that module is super cool
08:17 <@rizen> why can i never find those super cool ones when i look
08:17 <@rizen> i must be blind
08:20 <@rizen> incidentally i've found the coolest wiki in the history of the world
08:20 <@rizen> it gives me new ideas for our wiki, as well as new stuff for webgui in general
08:21 <@rizen> it has an ass kicker macro language: http://wiki.opengarden.org/@gui/extensions
08:21 <@rizen> http://wiki.mindtouch.com/Deki_wiki
08:22 <@preaction> its definitely pretty
08:22 <@rizen> ok sleepy time for me
08:22 <@rizen> ttyl
08:22 <@preaction> ha, it uses Viddler. one of my friends is their sysadmin
08:22 <@preaction> cya
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08:33 < CIA-40> WebGUI: doug * r5477 /WebGUI/ (lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Cron.pm t/Group.t t/User.t): 
08:33 < CIA-40> WebGUI: changed User.t and Group.t to use a less used ip address to make tests pass on my network that uses 192.168.0.0/16\
08:33 < CIA-40> WebGUI: fixed a logic bug in WebGUI/Workflow/Cron
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11:19 < SynQ> morning
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11:48 < SynQ> morning bart
11:54 < BartJol> morning
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15:13 < nuba> preaction: >it used my username, not my alias
15:13 < nuba> preaction: it scrapes http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki?func=recentChanges, thats why
15:19 < BartJol> I doubt whether preaction is really awake
15:35 < nuba> well he'll be highlighted anyway
15:41 < BartJol> is he radio-active?
15:53 < nuba> heh dont think so, but if he'll notice it or not will depend on how he uses IRC and on his IRC client's features
15:53 < nuba> any time a highlight happens IRSSI flags the window for me
15:54 < BartJol> mm, moving windows, sound like a vista feature
15:54 < nuba> also if im set as away, it'll list them when I un-away
15:55 < nuba> IRSSI is a text-only IRC client, the window's number turn to red in the status bar
15:55 < nuba> thats the kind of flagging im talking :)
15:55 < BartJol> sorry, I'm just playing that I'n THAT stupid
15:55 < nuba> screen will also warn me of a beep in the irssi's window
15:55 < nuba> so im quite covered ;)
15:55 < nuba> yeah im just playing along..
15:56 < BartJol> thanks
15:56 < nuba> anytime
15:58 < nuba> just watched http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Side_of_the_Rainbow this weekend
15:59 < nuba> it really syncs nicely
16:00 < nuba> plenty of highly probabilistc unlikely coincidences
16:00 < nuba> obviously, it was edited to make it happen
16:02 < nuba> or maybe its just that im a pink floyd enthusiast and my mind wants to believe it
16:14 < BartJol> I I've seen chopper
16:14 < BartJol> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0221073/
16:15 < BartJol> it was a bit strange
16:15 < BartJol> mmm, I'm not really a floyd fan
16:15 < BartJol> but it still sound snice to watch
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17:01 < SynQ> ah rizen
17:02 < SynQ> before I forget
17:02 < SynQ> thank you for the time you put in answering my e-mails
17:03 <@rizen> you're welcome. sorry it took so long
17:03 <@rizen> lots going on these days
17:03 < SynQ> I understand
17:03 < SynQ> same her
17:03 < SynQ> here even
17:03 < SynQ> I'm trying to build a growing business :)
17:04 < nuba> i wanted to force a specific version of JSON for CPAN to install
17:04 < nuba> tried "install http://backpan.perl.org/authors/id/M/MA/MAKAMAKA/JSON-2.04.tar.gz"
17:04 < nuba> and it worked
17:04 < nuba> didnt knew you could do that with CPAN
17:05 < SynQ> JT, who is meatbob?
17:05 <@rizen> wow, i didn't know you could do that either
17:05 <@rizen> meatpop is steve, the pb design guy
17:05 < SynQ> ah
17:05 < nuba> really fits with the "Do what you mean" philosophy
17:06 < SynQ> the 'new' pb design guy?
17:06 -!- bopbop [n=kmccombs@75-134-30-120.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui
17:06 < SynQ> hi bopbop
17:06 < bopbop> good morning
17:07 < SynQ> are you meatbob?
17:07 < SynQ> bopmeat
17:09 < SynQ> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/spectre-broken-due-to-json/8
17:09 <@rizen> bopbop is kristi our training chica
17:09 < bopbop> SynQ: nope
17:09 < SynQ> ah
17:09 < SynQ> :)
17:09  * SynQ hugs kristi
17:10 < bopbop> bopbop hugs SynQ back
17:10 < SynQ> that smoring has a point
17:10 < SynQ> If it's this hard to use the WRE to install the most recent stable version and it simply doesn't run spectre due to incompatibilites with JSON, what chance does one have of successfully getting the product up and running so that you can test with it.
17:10 < SynQ> he says
17:10 < SynQ> I would say
17:11 < SynQ> If WebGUI stable is to break during upgrading
17:11 < SynQ> how stable is it
17:11 < SynQ> bear in mind that I really don't want to bitch here
17:12 < SynQ> but I can imagine that someone who is new to webgui is really gonna have a hard time
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17:16 < br4k3r> hey guys... is there any way to do image maps within WG
17:24 <@rizen> SynQ it isn't our fault that one of the core libraries that we depend on was changed in totally uncompatible ways
17:24 <@rizen> and i'm working on a new version of the WRE that fixes all the problems...but i don't want to put out a piece of crap that doesn't work, so I'm taking my time
17:25 <@rizen> br4k3r do you mean creating an image map or using one?
17:25 <@rizen> using one definitely
17:26 <@rizen> to use one, put your image map tags into a snippet
17:26 <@rizen> along with a reference to the image that you want to use using the ^FileUrl macro
17:28 < SynQ> ah
17:29 < SynQ> I'll stick with WebGUI 7.4.21 till that WRE is out then
17:32 < SynQ> would it be a good recommendation to all WRE users out there to stick with 7.4.21 ?
17:32 < SynQ> due to the Config::JSON problems you might expect?
17:34 < nuba> SynQ: you mean as in "if you cant follow the gotchas.txt please stick with 7.4.21".
17:34 < nuba> ?
17:35 < nuba> gotcha.txt*
17:35 < SynQ> ah
17:35 < SynQ> well
17:35 < br4k3r> using image map
17:36 < SynQ> the gotcha.txt states just to upgrade to Config::JSON 1.1.2
17:36 < SynQ> before
17:36 < SynQ> before upgrading
17:36 < SynQ> now I'm going to try that tonight
17:36 < SynQ> and see if it works
17:37 < SynQ> but I have a feeling that getting it right will require some quite deep perl skills
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17:39 < perlmonkey2> SynQ: Are you trying to start a WG related business?
17:39 < SynQ> hi doug
17:39 < SynQ> perlmonkey2: I am running a WG related business allready
17:40 < nuba> perlmonkey2: hes a veteran
17:40 < SynQ> veteran, that sounds like I've been to war with JT
17:40 < perlmonkey2> groovy
17:40 < perlmonkey2> over JSON?
17:40 < SynQ> hehe
17:40 < SynQ> no way
17:40 < nuba> lol
17:40 < perlmonkey2> heh
17:40 < SynQ> with, as in together with
17:40 < SynQ> not against
17:42 < perlmonkey2> "The 100 year CMS wars fought in the late 20th and 21st century.  The bloodiest single episode of human history."  --Wikipedia entry 2203CE
17:43 <@apeiron> War is great for the economy, something the US could use right now. :)
17:43 <@apeiron> (an economic boost, that is)
17:45 <@preaction> you mean we're not at war right now?
17:45 < nuba> what? dont you US guys qualify the current events in iraq as war already?
17:46 < SynQ> war is bad for everyone
17:46 <@preaction> not for the winner
17:47 < SynQ> also for the winner
17:47 < SynQ> in war everyone looses
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17:51 < nuba> that is so lame. "economy needs a boost, housing bubble is about to explode. Yeah, lets explode some other country instead. We bust some ass and boost ourselves."
17:52 < nuba> i believe the only winners in a war are those making money with the war
17:55 <@rizen> there are no winners in war
17:55 < nuba> and these guys are not necessarily located in the countries who "won" the war
17:55 <@rizen> and war being great for the economy was only true when the government was a bigger portion of the economy
17:55 <@rizen> these days the US government is a tiny fraction of the US economy
17:55 < SynQ> I agree with JT
17:55 < SynQ> on this statement :)
17:56 <@rizen> and the US government is an insignificant fraction of the total global economy
17:58 < jdferm> actually... preaction has a point. The reason we are in a "perpetual war economy" right now in the US is because the powers that be saw how successful WWII was at bringing the U.S. out of the depression it was in.
17:59 < jdferm> err not preaction apeiron.
17:59 < jdferm> sorry for the misstatement
17:59 < SynQ> assumption is the mother of all error
17:59 < SynQ> war is the error
17:59 < SynQ> assumption of the mother is war
17:59 < jdferm> Upgrading joomla is the mother of all error.
18:00 < nuba> i thought the mother and father of all errors of lately were JSON and Config::JSON
18:01 < jdferm> or should I say the subsequent "RESTRICTED ACCESS" on all of my pages after upgrading Joomla! were the mother of all errors.
18:01 <@rizen> with what we spend on the war in iraq alone (not including other military expenditures) we could have a moon base, brought back a dinosaur from extinction, have a maglev train between new york and LA, destroyed joomla, plone and the rest
18:03 < nuba> i wonder when society in general in US will start resenting the governments' military military expenditure
18:03 <@rizen> many of us already do
18:03 <@preaction> never. there's a war on terror going on!
18:03 < nuba> cause even here in brazil, 5k miles away, people wonder about that
18:03 <@preaction> we won the war on drugs, now we're winning the war on terrur!
18:04 <@rizen> politicians use terms like "greatest country on earth" and i keep asking greatest at what?
18:04 <@rizen> military is the only thing we do well
18:04 <@rizen> at least anymore
18:04 <@rizen> we used to be the high tech country, but we lost that a long time ago
18:05 < nuba> btw, Im curious of how's public perception of the 9-11 events *currently* ? Is questioning the offical explanations still seen as overstretched paranoia?
18:05 <@rizen> we used to be the big dawgs in the entertainment world, but there are lots of other countries that make better music and movies than us
18:05 <@preaction> i think our only salvation is going to be to stop the unilateral, heavy-handed global politics and surrender our foreign military bases to the direct supervision of the United Nations or its replacement
18:06 < SynQ> pff
18:06 <@preaction> nuba, yes. even though the evidence is starting to make sense
18:06 < SynQ> the united nations is a US institution
18:06 < SynQ> mostly
18:06 < nuba> these videos and material from scholars-for-911 and alikes are getting somewhat popular here in brazil, between the university folks and faculty...
18:06 <@preaction> SynQ, exactly. it was designed to be completely ineffective at stopping the five major powers from doing what they want
18:07 < SynQ> nice huh
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18:11 <@rizen> wow this channel really turned political rather than technological all of the sudden
18:11 <@rizen> =)
18:11 <@rizen> anybody see the new knight rider last night?
18:11 < SynQ> nope
18:11 <@rizen> i thought it was really good
18:11 < SynQ> but I hear it is a ford mustang
18:12 < ckotil> yeah. i liked it
18:12 < SynQ> and it has no flame thrower
18:12 < ckotil> yet...
18:12 < ckotil> kitt (knigh industries THREE thousand) has nano tech body armor
18:12 < ckotil> the nano machines can even turn the car into any model mustand of any color
18:12 <@rizen> it's the best premier i've seen on television in a number of years
18:13 < SynQ> hehe
18:13 < nuba> is the knight a street-wise, man-next-door, turned hero?
18:13 < SynQ> wait until the new a-team comes out
18:13 < ckotil> sort of. ex army rangers
18:13 <@rizen> ex-army ranger with a gambling problem and babes strapped to each arm
18:14 < nuba> could you describe it as a contemporary version of Captain America?
18:15 <@rizen> i'd say it's more of a bourne identity type thing, only with a sci fi element
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18:17 < nuba> ok.. I'd be scared if some hero to capitalize on "american pride vs. the world" would appear in times like these.
18:17 < nuba> something like "Us vs. Them"
18:17 < nuba> where Them would be "rest of the world"
18:17 <@rizen> actually they are bringing back the captain america comic book
18:17 <@rizen> which i thought was stupid
18:18 < jdferm> I saw the new KITT & thought it looked like something that a couple of teenagers with $1000 at a Pep Boys would have done with a Mustang.
18:18 < jdferm> The whole idea behind KITT was that it looked somewhat like a normal car from the outside.
18:19 <@rizen> the new kit can morph to look like a normal mustang
18:19 <@rizen> s/kit/kitt/
18:20 <@rizen> plus the new kitt is a real car
18:20 <@rizen> ford is actually putting out a limited edition version of it
18:20 < jdferm> LOL
18:20 < jdferm> you know you're hurting for sales when.......
18:20 <@rizen> as you laugh they'll make millions i'm sure
18:21 < jdferm> Hopefully it does better than their last special edition "Bullit" release.
18:21 <@rizen> bullit?
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18:21 < jdferm> Aye
18:21 <@rizen> what was that from?
18:21 < jdferm> Bullit.
18:22 <@rizen> was there a movie called Bullit or something?
18:22 <@rizen> oh yeah
18:22 < jdferm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Mustang_variants#Bullitt
18:22 <@rizen> interesting
18:23 < jdferm> Steve McQueen. An American legend :)
18:26 < jdferm> Ford has this nasty habit of overpricing special edition cars. Consquently they tend to sit on the lot a longer than they should.
18:26 < jdferm> The "new" Thunderbird is another example of that.
18:27 < jdferm> Most people look at the price of the special edition & think "well.. I'm only $2000-3000 away from getting the Cobra" and spend that little bit extra for a big improvement instead of getting a glorified GT>
18:28 <@apeiron> They should just get a Thundercougarfalconbird.
18:28 < nuba> Bah, Mad Max's interceptor is much cooler
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18:37 < jdferm> And after a little bit of research, we find why the new KITT looks so ridiculous.
18:38 < jdferm> "For designers, the first challenge of creating a screen version of the "King of the Road"2008 Shelby GT500KR, was that the car isn't even on the road yet. The solution was to go to Galpin Auto Sports (GAS) who is well-known for creating one-of-a-kind vehicles in the California market."
18:39 <@rizen> why are you hating on the new kitt so much? are you really stuck in the 80's?
18:39 < jdferm> You may know Galpin Auto Sports better from their other show on tv.
18:39 < jdferm> "Galpin Auto Sports is the car garage featured on the USA version of MTV's Pimp My Ride."
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18:41 < jdferm> Rizen, I just think the new KITT is an eyesore & looks like a sad attempt at corporate television & automotive to "get in touch with the youth".
18:42 <@rizen> if you think it's an eyesore that's one thing, but i think you have deeper issues...you just keep going on and on and on and on
18:42 <@rizen> we get it, you don't like it
18:42 <@rizen> move on
18:44 <@rizen> not trying to rip on you, just would rather change the topic 
18:44 <@rizen> too much negativity in the world
18:44 < jdferm> wow... sorry. I was sharing the info I found about why its styling is the way it is. Back on topin... yay webgui.
18:48 < nuba> "get in touch with the youth" LOL
18:51 <@rizen> anybody know where i can find a howto for building subversion with perl bindings
18:51 <@rizen> with the swig bindings...having a problem
18:51 <@rizen> need it for the new WRE
18:51 < nuba> rizen: i assume you did read the swig section of the subversion install or readme docs?
18:51 <@rizen> yes
18:51 <@rizen> i'm following the instructions
18:52 <@rizen> the problem is that i'm getting errors that don't make any sense to me
18:52 < nuba> ok, cant help you there. after so much pain myself I went with /usr/ports
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19:03 <+perlDreamer> preaction: it's impossible for the label test to succeed
19:03 <+perlDreamer> It's a flaw in how the parser works
19:03 <+perlDreamer> If it is passing, you need to double check your smoke setup
19:04 < nuba> perlDreamer> and forcing me to type quote-space to get a literal quote
19:04 < nuba> thats cause youre using a kb layout w/ deadkeys
19:05 < nuba> and quote can be used with some vowels in latin languages
19:05 <+perlDreamer> well, the first time I told it use the compose character, it worked fine
19:05 <+perlDreamer> then I rebooted, and it stopped
19:05 <+perlDreamer> but I will look into the keyboard config again
19:05 <+perlDreamer> because typing spanish the other way was intolerable
19:10 <@preaction> ah. it's because i didn't enable the long tests yet
19:11 <+perlDreamer> nuba, is there a layout without dead keys, or is there a way to disable them?
19:12 < nuba> perlDreamer: you need deadkeys to produce things likt ´+i = í
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19:14 < nuba> otherwise you can use a US layout w/o deadkeys and some app like Character Map to produce things like í
19:14 <+perlDreamer> so what if I want it to do Compose + ' + i = í
19:14 <+perlDreamer> rather than ' + i ?
19:14 < nuba> but I find that worst than having to cope with "<space> to produce a quote
19:14 <+perlDreamer> It is, much worse
19:14 <+perlDreamer> that was round 1
19:14 <+perlDreamer> but it is interfering with my English typing a lot, and my perl string making
19:15 < nuba> perlDreamer: i assume you typed something different than this to me: + ' + i = í
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19:15 < nuba> but it broke on its way to my eyes
19:15 -!- steveo [n=steveo@76.226.180.72] has quit [Client Quit]
19:15 < nuba> probably need to look out term encoding settings...
19:15 < nuba> me, that is
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19:20 <+perlDreamer> hm
19:21 <+perlDreamer> I'm going to try a reboot, because the new keyboard group is not showing up
19:21 <+perlDreamer> bbl
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19:37 <+perlDreamer> No success
19:37 <+perlDreamer> I switched back for now.
19:37 <+perlDreamer> and I'll post on the fedora forums
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19:41 <+perlDreamer> preaction: I think you need to install a few dependencies on your smoke test server
19:41 <+perlDreamer> at least Test::MockObject
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20:40 <+perlDreamer> preaction: I found the $/ undef bug
20:40 <+perlDreamer> It should have been easier than it was, since I did it in the first place
20:41 <+perlDreamer> It was in Storage.pm, getFileContentsAsScalar
20:41 <+perlDreamer> and in a Storage.t test as well
20:41 <+perlDreamer> but it's been fixed in 7.4, HEAD and Commerce branches
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20:46 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5478 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm t/Storage.t): Fix a bug where $/ ended up being undef globally.
20:46 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5479 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/t/Storage.t: sideport new test for $/, and add diagnostics to the getPathFrag test
20:46 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5480 /WebGUI/ (lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm t/Storage.t): Forward port diagnostics and $/ bug fix from 7.4 and Commerce branches.
20:46 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5481 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/t/Storage.t: Port over missing diagnostic for getPathFrag test.
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21:08 <@rizen> inspiration added to translation server: http://i18n.webgui.org/
21:09 < nuba> rizen: if youre considering RFE for the i18n, it would be good if you had #anchors in the list of strings to be translated,
21:10 < nuba> and were sent there after having translated a given string
21:10 < nuba> cause every time i forget to open the editor in a new tab, 
21:10 < nuba> im in for a bunch of scrolling down and "where was I once again?..."
21:11 <@rizen> huh?
21:11 < nuba> not understood?
21:12 <@rizen> yeah i don't understand the request
21:12 < nuba> want me to rephrase it here, by email, or what?..
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21:14 < nuba> in a single line: every edit in the WebGUI namespace (which has 734 items to be translated) sends me to the top of the list after I translate the item and click on "save".
21:15 <@rizen> oh i see
21:15 < nuba> im opening new tabs in firefox for every item I want to translate there
21:15 <@rizen> what if i just filter the items to be translated to the top of the list?
21:15 < nuba> well sometimes the order helps with context
21:15 < nuba> when theres no context info in the item
21:16 < nuba> but not always.
21:16 <@rizen> can you do an anchor tag through a form post?
21:16 < nuba> dunno, never tried adding #ref in the action url.
21:16 <@rizen> let me see if it can be done
21:17 < nuba> but yeah showing the not-translated-yet first would be nice too
21:17 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5482 /tools/translationserver.cgi: added image
21:20 <@rizen> what do you know
21:20 <@rizen> it works
21:20 <@rizen> feature added
21:20 <@rizen> at least it works in safari
21:20 <@rizen> haven't tested in other browsers
21:20 <@rizen> give it a try
21:20 < nuba> coolgreat
21:20 < nuba> works in firefox too
21:21 <@rizen> thanks for the rfe
21:21 < nuba> thanks for the quick implementation
21:21 <@rizen> anything i can do to make it an easier job (within reason) i'm going to do. i know it's a lot of work to translate
21:25 <+perlDreamer> nice gooey graphic
21:27 <@preaction> wait. someone else is doing the French translation too? or did we lose a huge number of possible things to translate?
21:27 <@preaction> it went from 3% to 21% in a couple weeks
21:27 <+perlDreamer> we lost a bunch of stuff last week
21:27 < nuba> but there has been some activity there too
21:28 < nuba> i saw it going up while I was working in BrazilianPortuguese the other day
21:28 <+perlDreamer> Cool.
21:28 <@preaction> ooh
21:28 < nuba> finnish going up too irrc
21:28 < nuba> iirc*
21:28 <+perlDreamer> We did a little Spanish translation over the weekend
21:28 <@preaction> hopefully they're fixing my pidgin french
21:28 <@preaction> je parle francais un peu
21:28 <@preaction> just a little
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21:29 < perlmonkey2> would it not be faster to run all of it through a machine translator and then correct it?
21:30 <+perlDreamer> Only if you have someone to correct it
21:30 <+perlDreamer> and given the quality of machine translation, it's probably faster just to do it by hand
21:30 <+perlDreamer> the machines have no idea of context
21:30 <@preaction> that's what i've been doing. using google translation and verifying by hand
21:30 <@preaction> even with my limited grasp of French, its enough to vet what the machine tells me
21:31 <+perlDreamer> I had to look up half of the labels to see how they're used to make sure the right semantics/side meanings are used
21:31 <@preaction> the machine tells me the nouns i don't know, i come up with the correct sentence structure
21:31 < nuba> I tried machine-translating once, was more work to fix and savage the result
21:31 < nuba> than to read, think, and write
21:32 < nuba> not to mention that savaging a translated text sometimes results in a funny-looking text
21:32 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5483 /tools/translationserver.cgi: anchors remember where you are in long lists
21:32 < nuba> not one that would be produced by a native speaker
21:34 < perlmonkey2> but it is better than nothing for now....If wouldn't have to effect the translator if they decided to ignore it and rewrite from scratch.
21:34 <+perlDreamer> there are slashdot stories about bad machine translations
21:35 <+perlDreamer> "I thought it said WebGUI is here to help you".  -> WebGUI is here to date your sister.
21:35 < nuba> heh yeah
21:38 < nuba> classic example: "the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak." english -> russian -> english, turn into  "The vodka is good, but the meat is rotten"
21:39 <+perlDreamer> I don't see what's inaccurate about that.  I've heard Russian beef isn't that good.
21:47 <@rizen> yeah, but russian women are excellent
21:47 <@rizen> it more than makes up for bad beef
21:49 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5484 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Tax.pm t/Shop/Tax.t): 
21:49 < CIA-40> WebGUI: Renamed the import and export methods to prevent Perl from
21:49 < CIA-40> WebGUI: calling them.
21:49 < CIA-40> WebGUI: Added code and tests for import method. It needs more testing
21:49 < CIA-40> WebGUI: for user input validation.
21:49 <+perlDreamer> rizen: almost done with Shop/Tax, aside from web interface methods and calculateTax
21:50 <@rizen> wish i could say the same for my part
21:50 <@rizen> stupid wre
21:50 <+perlDreamer> stupid wre
21:50 <+perlDreamer> stupid computer
21:50 <+perlDreamer> stupid house/plumbing
21:50 <+perlDreamer> it was a rough weekend
21:50 <+perlDreamer> SVN still giving you problems with SWIG?
21:51 <@rizen> yes
21:51 <@rizen> well now apache started giving me crap as of this morning
21:51 <@rizen> still not sure what that's about
21:54 < nuba> garbled crap?
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21:59 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: garbled crap?
22:04 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5485 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/t/ (3 files in 3 dirs): move the CSV tax table into its own subdirectory
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23:18 < BartJol> perldreamer, dis you receive my e-mail?"
23:18 <+perlDreamer> BartJol
23:18 < BartJol> adress?
23:18 <+perlDreamer> no
23:18 < BartJol> oh
23:18 < BartJol> I tried to
23:19 < BartJol> well it worked this time
23:21 <+perlDreamer> the email filter at my ISP is slow.  I'll check again in a few minutes
23:32 < perlmonkey2> Gooey siting: http://tchung.fedorapeople.org/scale6x/exhibitors/00029.jpg
23:32 < perlmonkey2> From the fedora scale6 photos
23:32 < perlmonkey2> Even better: http://tchung.fedorapeople.org/scale6x/exhibitors/00033.jpg
23:34 <+perlDreamer> rizen: Tax API is done.
23:35 <+perlDreamer> BartJol, still no email
23:35 <@rizen> you are ridiculously cooler than me
23:36 < BartJol> oh
23:36 <+perlDreamer> I'm also drier
23:36 <+perlDreamer> Do you want me to start on the www_ methods, or pick up another piece?
23:37 < perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: You aren't a PB employee right?
23:37 <+perlDreamer> No
23:37 <+perlDreamer> I design chips for a living
23:37 <+perlDreamer> BartJol: My full name is colin kuskie
23:37 < perlmonkey2> oh, *that* is who you are.
23:38 <+perlDreamer> You can email me at firstName.lastName@gmail dot com
23:38 < perlmonkey2> i've heard of the famous chip designer turned perl foss guru
23:39 <+perlDreamer> famous?
23:39 <+perlDreamer> I have a reputation?
23:39 <@rizen> perlDreamer for now i'd say move on to the shipping stuff
23:39 <@rizen> i can't believe you're done
23:39 <@rizen> it's killing me
23:39 <+perlDreamer> It only had like 5 or 6 methods
23:39 <+perlDreamer> no external dependencies
23:39 < perlmonkey2> is it in the source tree?  I want to see it :)
23:39 <+perlDreamer> The commerce branch
23:42 < perlmonkey2> Which module?  I don't see Tax.pm :)
23:42 <+perlDreamer> lib/WebGUI/Shop/Tax.pm
23:42 <@preaction> WebGUI::Shop is the namespace now?
23:43 <@preaction> nm, i'll read the fine manual
23:43 <+perlDreamer> preaction: yes
23:43 <+perlDreamer> 5 year backwards compatibility
23:43 <@preaction> that shouldn't be hard
23:44 < perlmonkey2> WebGUI::UTIL needs a "validateHash(qw/foo bar/)"
23:44 <@preaction> validate hash?
23:45 < perlmonkey2> saw in Tax.pm a loop for doing that and realized it is somethign I do all the time.
23:45 <@preaction> List::Util and List::MoreUtils might have what you need
23:45 < perlmonkey2> oh :)
23:45 <+perlDreamer> Smart matching in 5.10 would be perfect
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23:47 < perlmonkey2> Is "Ruling WebGUI" no longer in the book list?
23:48 <+perlDreamer> well, do I live up to my perl foss guru reputation?
23:48 <+perlDreamer> Blue hand men coming down the hall
23:51 <@preaction> two by two
23:53 < perlmonkey2> What is the "Ruling WebGUI" book now called, since it isn't in the book shop?
23:53 <+perlDreamer> It's in many, many pieces now
23:54 <+perlDreamer> Many pieces are in the wiki
23:54 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5486 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (7 files in 3 dirs): Input validation tests for importTaxData.
23:54 <+perlDreamer> the other parts at the Admin guide, commerce guide, primer and content manager's guide
23:55 < perlmonkey2> thanks perlDreamer
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--- Day changed Tue Feb 19 2008
00:05 <+perlDreamer> rizen: in the Shipper docs, it mentions coupon.   Is that just copy/paste from coupon, or do the two sub classes actually interact?
00:08 <@rizen> let me read quick
00:09 <@rizen> thats a cut/paste error
00:21 < perlmonkey2> How long did it take to write Tax.pm and design the tax table?
00:21 <+perlDreamer> the tax design (table and api) was done by rizen
00:22 <+perlDreamer> I didn't keep track of how long it took me to write it and the tests.
00:22 < perlmonkey2> it took as long as it took :)
00:23 <+perlDreamer> I worked in the evenings, a little on the weekend, and a chunk of today.
00:24 <+perlDreamer> speaking of time, it's time to peel the taters
00:25 < perlmonkey2> mmmm, taters
00:29 <+perlDreamer> my wife makes the world's most awesome potato bread
00:29 <+perlDreamer> So I make taters, and she makes bread
00:29 <+perlDreamer> it's a good division of labor
00:31 < perlmonkey2> synergy
00:31  * perlmonkey2 donks himself for using that word.
00:31 <@preaction> paradigm!
00:32  * perlmonkey2 donks preaction
00:33 <@apeiron> snicker. Ask buubot in #perl about 'managementspeak'. :)
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00:34 < BartJol> peel taters? it's half past 11!!!
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00:50 < perlmonkey2> We are totally going to blow away surveymonkey:http://surveymonkey.com/Home_Pricing.aspx vs WebGUI:FREE!
00:51 < perlmonkey2> and surveymonkey is taking the survey world by storm...but it isn't that great.  The spec I've worked out with the profs here should be just as good.  And the second iteration will blow surveymonkey awya.
00:52 <@rizen> wahoo!!!
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01:12 < danny_mk> Hello cap10morgan
01:13 < danny_mk> did you see the messages I left on the OpenId article?
01:15 < cap10morgan> danny_mk: hey
01:15 < cap10morgan> did you update it today?
01:16 < danny_mk> about a week ago
01:17 < danny_mk> we have to wait for the Net::OpenId::Consumer module to be updated
01:17 < cap10morgan> ah, yes
01:17 < cap10morgan> i did see that
01:20 < cap10morgan> quick opinion poll of webgui devs: i keep running into places where it would be useful to have easy api access to DataForm entries; would it be useful / make sense to create a class to represent those?
01:21 < cap10morgan> i'm thinking some kinda autoloader so you can grab form field values as accessors
01:21 < danny_mk> like CGI::FormBuilder ?
01:22 < cap10morgan> danny_mk: i'm not familiar w/ that module
01:22 < danny_mk> hold on
01:23 < danny_mk> http://www.formbuilder.org/
01:24 < nuba> cap10morgan: you mean instantiating a data form fill out as an object ?
01:24 < cap10morgan> nuba: yep
01:25 < nuba> for things like foreach $form_fillout (@forms_fillouts) { # do something with $form_fillout->attribute('foo') } ?
01:26 < cap10morgan> exactly
01:26 < nuba> well that makes total sense, Im not used to hack on data forms but if I were to I'd be expecting to find such a thing there
01:28 < nuba> or at least to have an array of Ids of form fillouts, and to be able to instantiate them based on Ids
01:28 < cap10morgan> nuba: yeah, it sure would be nice :)
01:29 < nuba> IOW not necessarily expecting I could produce a @forms_fillouts array containing fillout_objects
01:30 < nuba> cap10morgan: btw did you check the mysql HTML doco link i posted for you, re: mysiamchk on tables being currently used?
01:30 < cap10morgan> yeah, that's basically what i was saying in my bug report
01:31 < cap10morgan> that it was saying that because the table was in use
01:31 < nuba> did you actually check the link, or did you just read the excerpt I included there
01:31 < nuba> ?
01:31 < cap10morgan> but thanks for posting official confirmation :)
01:32 < nuba> its not quite a bug but more like a limitation of myisamchk
01:32 < cap10morgan> that's not the bug i was reporting
01:32 < nuba> have you tried to myisamchk them with the mysqld down ?
01:33 < cap10morgan> no
01:33 < cap10morgan> i can't take mysql down too often
01:33 < cap10morgan> it's a production server
01:33 < cap10morgan> i was just demonstrating that myisamchk finds no other problems w/ those tables (besides being open)
01:33 < cap10morgan> because the database cache is making my apache processes segfault
01:33 < nuba> yeah i know how it goes, maintenance window, scheduled maintenances, etc
01:34 < cap10morgan> yeah, good times :)
01:35 < nuba> heh they're good times if you're finished before the window ends
01:35 < nuba> and the production push was succesful
01:35 < cap10morgan> yep :)
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01:37 < nuba> cap10morgan: you know you can make a copy of the table, work on it, then replace in a snap with minimal downtime, right:
01:37 < nuba> cap10morgan: you might want to check mysqlhotcopy
01:38 < nuba> s/right:/right?/
01:38 < cap10morgan> nuba: sure, but it's not the point of this bug report, unless no one will do anything w/ it unless i triple confirm the tables are fine :)
01:38 < nuba> heh got it
01:38 < cap10morgan> in which case, yeah, i'll probably use that :)
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03:20 < Khaytsus> How do I show messaging/pm/etc?  Last post here seems to say it is in 7.4 http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/dev/discuss/sending-messages-to-inbox
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03:21 <@preaction> Khaytsus, if you view another user's profile, there's a link to send them a private message
03:21 < Khaytsus> Not sure how to view other profile then I guess :)
03:22 <+Radix-wrk> forum posts
03:22 <+Radix-wrk> assuming profile is non-private
03:22 < Khaytsus> ahh...  What if they have not posted?
03:23 <@preaction> if you have their userId you can see their profile
03:24 <@preaction> if you have admin privileges you can get their userId
03:24 < Khaytsus> k..  I am, but I was thinking for user-to-user
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03:26 <@preaction> they have to know their userId then
03:26 < Khaytsus>  k
03:26 <@preaction> you could write an SQLReport that would look users up by username
03:27 < Khaytsus> Hmmm..  I'llread up on that
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04:25 < Ceogar> Hola
04:25 < Ceogar> whatts up?
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07:01 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5487 branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/commerce.pod: Fix a few typos
07:01 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5488 branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/ShipperDriver.pm t/Shop/ShipperDriver.t): base work for ShipperDriver module with tests
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15:48 < SDuensin> Morning all.
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15:56 < wgGuest23> helo
15:56 < wgGuest23> hello
15:57 < wgGuest23> i have an error in one of my sites, the error is the next
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15:59 < wgGuest23> asset constructor new() requires an assestid
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16:00 < wgGuest23> do you know what is it about?
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16:03 < wgGuest23> pass in object came back undefined for activity (csactivity000000000001) using WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Collaboration, new
16:03 < wgGuest23> this is the error
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16:37 < wgGuest81> does anyone konw where i can find a detailed explanation of what the content managers or publishers groups are used for in webgui?
16:38 -!- wgGuest81 is now known as teflond0n
16:40 < wgGuest23> hello
16:40 < wgGuest23> i have two assets locked by admin and i want to delete them but i can not 
16:41 < wgGuest23> do you know how to delete them'
16:47 < teflond0n> I would say commit them (which may be why they are locked...) then delete as longs as you have permission
16:49 < wgGuest23> the problem is that i don't have any commit version
16:50 < wgGuest23> i am logged with the admin user and there is not commit version pending
16:50 <+MrHairgrease> wgguest23 make the version tag in which those assets your current version tag
16:50 <+MrHairgrease> and then delete those assets
16:50 <+MrHairgrease> or
16:50 <+MrHairgrease> if these assets are all that's in the tag
16:50 <+MrHairgrease> delete the tag itself
16:54 < wgGuest23> can i delete a tag througout mysql console?
16:55 <+MrHairgrease> you don't want to do that
16:55 <+MrHairgrease> do it through admin console > version tags
17:01 < wgGuest23> MrHairgrease, i am checking in the version tags- commited version, the thing that i have to do is look for the respective tag and delete it?
17:03 <+MrHairgrease> the tag isn't committed yet
17:03 <+MrHairgrease> otherwise the asset wouldn't be locked
17:03 <+MrHairgrease> so find the tag
17:03 <+MrHairgrease> and delete that
17:04 <+MrHairgrease> note that doiing that will delete ALL content under that tag
17:04 <+MrHairgrease> so be sure to remove it only if you wan't to remove all content under the tag
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17:05 < wgGuest23> the problem is that i don't have any version to commit?
17:05 < wgGuest32> hello
17:06 < estiven> hi
17:06 <+MrHairgrease> is the tag still pending?
17:07 < wgGuest23> no, i don't appear as pending
17:07 < wgGuest23> no, it doesn't appear as pending
17:07 <+MrHairgrease> it is either, not commited at all
17:07 <+MrHairgrease> pending
17:07 <+MrHairgrease> or committed
17:08 <+MrHairgrease> in the first two cases an asset appears to be locked
17:08 <+MrHairgrease> in the latter is doesn't
17:08 <+MrHairgrease> so
17:08 <+MrHairgrease> you're assets are either under an uncommitted tag
17:09 <+MrHairgrease> or a pending one (which you don't have so there must be an uncommitted tag)
17:11 < wgGuest23> the problem happened while i was doing an upgrade.  So i did an upgrade ,then i tried to change somenthing in an assest but the commit doesn'nt work because i have a problem with a json library.  so i have to install an older version of json and then i had to upgrade again from 7.3.21 to 7.3.24
17:12 < wgGuest23> now i am in 7.3.24 and i fixed the json problem but i can not edit the assets that i modified before
17:13 <+MrHairgrease> weird...
17:13 <+MrHairgrease> is spectre running okay?
17:13 < wgGuest23> when i was in 7.3.21 in tried to commit the version tag but the assets continues as locked
17:13 < wgGuest23> yes
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17:14 <+MrHairgrease> hmm
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17:14 <+MrHairgrease> i think your best bet is to run spectre in debgu mode for a while
17:14 < wgGuest23> ok
17:14 <+MrHairgrease> so first shut it down: perl spectre.pl --shutdown
17:15 <+MrHairgrease> then perl spectre.pl --rub --debug
17:15 <+MrHairgrease> perl spectre.pl --run --debug
17:15 < wgGuest23> i am going to do
17:15 <+MrHairgrease> from the sbin dir
17:15 <+MrHairgrease> with the correct perl
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17:18 < lisette> hi, i have a script of perl and i try insert to webgui  through a macro and the result is not the same, What shall I do?
17:19 < wgGuest23> i tried it but there is not error
17:19 < wgGuest23> in the webgui.log i have the next error: asset constructor new() requires an assestid
17:19 <@rizen> lisette: you tried using the Execute macro, or you turned your script into a macro?
17:19 <+MrHairgrease> yeah 
17:19 <+MrHairgrease> but did it do anything
17:19 <+MrHairgrease> are the assets now unlocked?
17:20 < wgGuest23> pass in object came back undefined for activity (csactivity000000000001) using WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Collaboration, new 
17:20 < lisette> i execute macro
17:20 < wgGuest23> no, they continue locked
17:20 <+MrHairgrease> ok
17:21 <+MrHairgrease> well, sorry but I really have to do other stuff now so I cannot help you further with this problem
17:21 <+MrHairgrease> maybe some other people in the channel knwo what to do
17:22 <@rizen> lisette: could you please type the format of the macro into irc like this: ^Execute(/path/to/script); so we can see exactly what you've typed?
17:22 < wgGuest23> ok, thanks 
17:23 < wgGuest23> someone knows about the next error:pass in object came back undefined for activity (csactivity000000000001) using WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Collaboration, new
17:26 < lisette> ^Execute("parameters");
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17:29 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
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17:31 <@rizen> lisette: that's your problem
17:31 <@rizen> you need to pass it the full path to your script
17:32 <@rizen> ^Execute(/my/script/is/over/here/script.pl --param1 --param2);
17:32 < lisette> mmm, maybe
17:32 <@rizen> wgGuest23 that is a bug
17:32 <@rizen> it is caused by a bug
17:33 < lisette> but the same code of my script i transcribe in the macro
17:33 <@rizen> so you did put your code into a macro then...that's what i asked you before and you said no
17:33 <@rizen> what did you call the macro?
17:34 < lisette> ^Prueba("parameters")
17:35 < lisette> I put the script as a method within the macro
17:36 <@rizen> put the code of your macro into a Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com/ 
17:36 <@rizen> and then paste the url here
17:39 < lisette> i can't
17:39 < lisette> i have passwords in the code
17:40 <@rizen> then delete the passwords
17:40 <@rizen> and paste
17:40 <@rizen> or i can't help you
17:40 <@rizen> besides you shouldn't have passwords in your code, that's what config files are fore
17:42 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui
17:43 < lisette> i know, but no there way
17:44 <@rizen> delete the passwords and paste the code and i'll show you a very easy way to do it
17:44 < preaction> there's always a way!
17:45 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5489 /wrebuild/build.sh: :
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17:55 < perlmonkey2> wow.....did lisette just come to waste peoples' time or did they really want help?
17:56 < BartJol> i wouldn't have a clue, and that while god tried to help her
17:57 < BartJol> oh eeeh , that is a bit over the top
17:57 < jdferm> It's tough asking for help in a non native language :(
17:57 < jdferm> I would cut them a break.
17:59  * MrHairgrease always wastes peoples time
17:59 < BartJol> ok, but it's a bit strange to leave like that, but you're right too
17:59 < BartJol> like me
17:59 < BartJol> MARTIN!!!!!!
17:59 <+MrHairgrease> bartjol also like to waste peoples time
18:00 < BartJol> yeah, but I always give the opportunity to have a beer while I'm doing it
18:00 <+MrHairgrease> that's why we usually waste each others time
18:00 < BartJol> :)
18:00 <@preaction> perlbot tmrfe
18:00 < perlbot> The Man Responsible For Everything -- Sometimes you DO have someone to blame.
18:02 <@rizen> i agree it's hard asking for help in a non-native language, but at the same time you have to be willing to help the people trying to help you
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18:06 < BartJol> well, don't ponder about it too much, just let it flow away. I'm gonna pick up my trousers
18:06 -!- lisette [n=liraos@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has joined #webgui
18:07 < lisette> i can do a data form with a javascript?
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18:09 < lisette> I mean change the datatype "Text" for password or add type password
18:10 <@preaction> you don't need to do that in javascript. you can alter the template to have the field type you want
18:10 < lisette> thanks
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18:44 <@rizen> perlmonkey2 i'm sad to say that i'm going to have to give up on the wdk, i need to get moving on commerce, so i'm going to have to put out wre 0.8.2 without the wdk
18:46 <+MrHairgrease> rizen, when's the codefreeze for 7.5?
18:46 < perlmonkey2> rizen: ah, I'm sad.  I was looking forward to it.  Oh well, maybe next time :)
18:47 <@rizen> code freeze is may 31st
18:47 <+MrHairgrease> ok thanks
18:48 <@rizen> i would love to keep on working on it, but commerce has a looming deadline, so it needs to be my focus
18:48 <@rizen> besides, perlDreamer has gotten ahead of me and we can't have that
18:49 <+perlDreamer> http://blog.oregonlive.com/nwheadlines/2008/02/dont_get_mad_send_fake_nude_pi.html
18:51 <@rizen> this is real?
18:51 <+perlDreamer> yup
18:51 <@rizen> wow
18:52 <@rizen> i'm going to have to see if i can get sarah fired now
18:52 <@rizen> using those same tactics
18:52 <+perlDreamer> trying to get Sarah fired by sending her nude pictures of yourself won't get her fired
18:53 <@rizen> no, by sending nude pictures of sarah to her boss
18:53 <@rizen> as if it was coming from sarah
18:54 <+MrHairgrease> this one'll prolly have the same effect
18:54 <+MrHairgrease> http://www.webgui.org/uploads/3n/_D/3n_DFu2MkHAmDNQ1sYuWtQ/WUC-2007---10-17-07-108.jpg
18:57 <+perlDreamer> hanging out with cool euro people won't get her fired
18:57 <+perlDreamer> it will get her promoted
18:57 <+MrHairgrease> hmm maybe
18:57 <+MrHairgrease> anyway
18:58 <+MrHairgrease> the cool euro people are heading home
18:58 <+MrHairgrease> bbl
18:58 <+perlDreamer> good night cool euro person
18:58 -!- wgGuest71 [n=wgGuest7@75-134-30-120.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui
18:58 <+MrHairgrease> it's only 18.00 hours over here
18:58 <+MrHairgrease> nowhere near night
18:58 -!- carogray [n=Caroline@h69-131-73-162.nwlnnh.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #webgui
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18:59 <+perlDreamer> welcome to the channel, wgGuest71 and carogray
18:59 <+perlDreamer> if you have questions, please feel free just to ask them
18:59 <+perlDreamer> you don't need permission
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19:11 < carogray> This is the first time I have ever found the web
19:11 < carogray> GUI
19:11 < carogray> IRC channel.
19:12 < carogray> I was just in a training WebGUI Live Webinar and asked for help and just like with the TV repairman when I looked today there you were!
19:12 < carogray> So it was just a test. -Back to work now.
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19:38 <@preaction> 25 people today. i think we're setting new records
19:41 <@apeiron> wow, that is pretty populous.
19:42 <@apeiron> Well, let's be realistic: CIA-40 is a bot, GooeyOfSteel is a bot, and that preaction guy doesn't count.
19:42 <@rizen> we were at 26 yesterday
19:42 <@apeiron> Ah, and perlbot, too.
19:42 <@rizen> i mean this morning
19:43 <@preaction> even with those bots, we've had at least two bots in here most days, i've never seen the list this long before. 5 +o is also something we didn't used to have
19:46 <@preaction> and somehow i seem to have crashed the smoketest box... not responding to ssh...
20:19 < CIA-40> WebGUI: graham * r5490 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Operation/AdSpace.pm): fixed: creating ad spaces was broken
20:21 <@preaction> Haarg, was that my changes that broke that?
20:21 <@Haarg> yeah
20:21 <@preaction> figures...
20:22 <@Haarg> creating a new ad space, $adSpace wasn't defined
20:22 <@preaction> i'll write some WWW::Mech tests for that operation
20:25 <+perlDreamer> I don't know who you are
20:25 <+perlDreamer> but you shouldn't be using preaction's nick
20:25 <+perlDreamer> He hates WWW::Mech and prefers to use his custom getPage method
20:25 <+perlDreamer> that's what gave you away
20:25 <+perlDreamer> now scoot, before we tell on you
20:26 <@preaction> getPage is from the inside, doesn't require a web server and wouldn't work on the old nightly box
20:26 <@preaction> er... would
20:27 <@preaction> the new box if i get it working again will let www::mech tests run
20:34 <@preaction> as long as we get past the site starter wizard
20:43 <+perlDreamer> so what happened to the SSH connection on that box?
20:48 < CIA-40> WebGUI: graham * r5491 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (3 files in 3 dirs): preparing for 7.4.25 dev
20:48 < CIA-40> WebGUI: graham * r5492 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Operation/AdSpace.pm): fixed: creating ad spaces was broken
20:48 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5493 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (5 files in 3 dirs): finalize names and update docs to match
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20:50 <+MrHairgrease> gooeyofsteel help
20:50 <+MrHairgrease> what does gooeyofsteel do?
20:50 <+MrHairgrease> it is a bot right?
20:50 <+perlDreamer> it watches wiki commits
20:51 <+perlDreamer> and can also be an eliza-bot to help guide people through debugs, sometimes
20:51 <+MrHairgrease> what's an eliza bot
20:51 <+MrHairgrease> ?
20:51 <+perlDreamer> Eliza, the psychiatrist program?
20:52 <+perlDreamer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA
20:52  * MrHairgrease always consults with dr sbaitso
20:54 <+perlDreamer> is the Dr also a computer program?
20:55 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
20:55 <+MrHairgrease> it came with my sound blaster pro back in the day
20:55 <+MrHairgrease> i rmember it to be quite fun
20:55 <+MrHairgrease> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Sbaitso
20:55 <+MrHairgrease> but then again, i was only 10 or 11 or so...
21:13 < wgGuest23> hello
21:14 < wgGuest23> i have in my site the anonymous registration enable and i have two languages installed, english and spanish
21:15 < wgGuest23> when a user create an account the default language assgined is english, how can i change it to spanish?
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21:16 <@preaction> wgGuest23, that depends. do you also want the interface for visitors to be spanish?
21:16 < wgGuest23> yes
21:16 <@preaction> visitor meaning "Anybody not registered with the site"
21:16 <@preaction> then change the Visitor user's language
21:21 < wgGuest23> i have already done it but i created an account as a new user and the default language is assigned as english 
21:39 <@khenn> anyone here know a lot about sendmail?
21:40 <@khenn> I'm trying to determine how long it might take to send roughly 26,000 emails
21:40 <@khenn> hours, days, weeks, etc
21:40 <@khenn> it's a very fast server
21:41 <@khenn> but sendmail does not run exclusively on it
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21:50 < wgGuest23> preaction, i have already done it but i created an account as a new user and the default language is assigned as english  
21:52 < wgGuest23> preaction, if only change Visitor user's language, when a new user try to create a new account, his/her default language will be the visitor's default language
21:56 <@preaction> wgGuest23, exactly. any new user created will have their language set to whatever the Visitor's language is set to. if you want to update existing users, you'll need to do it yourself
21:57 <@preaction> wgGuest23, you do it in the Admin Console, Users button. Under the "Profile" tab
22:01 < wgGuest23> ok
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22:42 <+perlDreamer> how do you manually insert a link into a wiki page on wg.org?
22:50 <@preaction> copy the link of the wiki page?
22:50 <@preaction> oh
22:50 <@preaction> there's no link button in the rich editor?
22:50 <+perlDreamer> It's greyed out
22:51 <@preaction> you have to select some text
22:51 <+perlDreamer> ah
22:51 <+perlDreamer> thanks!
22:51 <@preaction> i'm timing how long it takes to send 30,000 emails through sendmail on a plainblack dev box. who wants to bet it takes 6 hours?
22:51 <@preaction> more? less?
22:52 <+perlDreamer> 60*60 = 3600
22:52 <+perlDreamer> 8 hours =~ 30k emails
22:52 <+perlDreamer> that's at 1/second
22:52 <+perlDreamer> I'll say 3.5 hours
22:52 <@preaction> it's doing about 10 every 2 seconds
22:53 <@preaction> perlbot math 30000 / 10 * 2 / 60 / 60
22:53 < perlbot> 1.66666666666667
22:53 <@preaction> perlbot math 30000 / 10 * 2 / 3600
22:53 < perlbot> 1.66666666666667
22:53 <@preaction> 1.6 hours
22:59 <+perlDreamer> edit check, please: http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/setting-the-default-language-on-your-site
23:02 <@preaction> does that work? don't you have to edit the Visitor user as well?
23:02 <+perlDreamer> I must have missed that in your instructions to wgGuest**
23:02 <+perlDreamer> I'll crank up a dev site, since the demo server only speaks english and grabled crap
23:03 <@preaction> the second set of instructions was how to modify existing users to change their language as well
23:03 <@preaction> nothing wrong w/ garbled crap
23:03 <@preaction> i gotta go vote though. wisconsin primary election is today
23:03 <+perlDreamer> no, I know lots of people who speak it
23:03 <@preaction> and i don't know where my polling place is yet... humph
23:03 <+perlDreamer> okay, I'll scroll up and add the other stuff
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23:32 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5494 /tools/translationserver.cgi: put an export link for each language on the main translation server page
23:34 -!- wgGuest38 [n=wgGuest3@adsl-072-149-129-114.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has joined #webgui
23:35 <+perlDreamer> howdy wgGuest38
23:36 < wgGuest38> Does anyone have any suggestions on how to debug this error -- http://webgui.pastebin.org/20295 
23:36 < wgGuest38> hi perl
23:37 < wgGuest38> I did get this error off a windows xp sp2 station
23:37 <+perlDreamer> Have you tried doing it on a demo site?  demo.plainblack.com
23:37 <+perlDreamer> also, which version of WebGUI are you using?
23:38 < wgGuest38> no, this error happens when i visit the Workflow op in admin console
23:38 < wgGuest38> 7.4.24
23:38 <+perlDreamer> okay, then please try this :)
23:38 <+perlDreamer> go to demo.plainblack.com
23:38 <+perlDreamer> create a demo site
23:38 <+perlDreamer> log in as admin
23:38 <+perlDreamer> and try to manually run the Workflow op in the admin console
23:38 <+perlDreamer> that will help us know if it's just your site (config problem) or a core WebGUI problem
23:39 <+perlDreamer> on the demo site, you can skip the "Do you want to configure your site and add some default content step"
23:39 < wgGuest38> works fine on the demo
23:40 <+perlDreamer> Are  you using the WRE, or a source install?
23:40 < wgGuest38> it's not running them, it's just viewing them -- ?op=manageWorkflows
23:40 < wgGuest38> of course i think some of these errors happen when spectre tries to run them
23:40 <+perlDreamer> it's quite likely
23:40 <+perlDreamer> spectre shares that code with WebGUI
23:40 < wgGuest38> it's like the encode method is bad
23:40 < wgGuest38> on this platform
23:40 <+perlDreamer> it's more like new, or pretty
23:40 < wgGuest38> (yes, we're stuck with windoze)
23:40 <+perlDreamer> one of them is returning undef
23:41 <+perlDreamer> Are you using the WRE, or a source install?
23:41 < wgGuest38> wre
23:41 <+perlDreamer> which version?
23:41 < wgGuest38> 0.8.1
23:41 < wgGuest38> is it the JSON module that's causing the error you think?
23:41 <+perlDreamer> what happens if you go to /data/WebGUI/sbin and run perl testEnvironment.pl --simpleReport
23:42 <+perlDreamer> yes, I'm worried about JSON
23:42 <+perlDreamer> when the JSON author changed the API, he's caused us about 5 weeks of headaches
23:42 <+perlDreamer> but such is life in open source
23:42 < wgGuest38> yep, but it's worth it :)
23:43 < wgGuest38> i don't see any active bugs for this issue on cpan's RT interface
23:43 <+perlDreamer> no, it's only in modules that use it
23:43 < wgGuest38> testEnvironment is good
23:43 < wgGuest38> looks like i need to do some debugging on JSON module
23:44 < wgGuest38> why did you upgrade JSON?
23:44 <+perlDreamer> we didn't have much choice, since CPAN will grab the latest and greatest by default
23:45 < wgGuest38> oiy, we need to upgrade testEnvironment to allow us to pin versions on required modules
23:45 < wgGuest38> thanks for the input; i'll see if i can make any headway debugging JSON; do you know what the encode method is doing?
23:45 <+perlDreamer> it's not encode
23:45 < wgGuest38> what format is it encoding to? utf?
23:46 <+perlDreamer> something isn't passing along an object ref
23:46 <+perlDreamer> so the chained method call is failing
23:46 < wgGuest38> oh, so it can't call the method
23:46 <+perlDreamer> right
23:46 <+perlDreamer> it might be "new"...
23:46 < wgGuest38> ok, i'll see what i can find out...
23:47 < wgGuest38> i'm going to do a test on my linux box to make sure i'm comparing apples-to-apples 
23:47 <+perlDreamer> good idea
23:47 < wgGuest38> will report back
23:47 < wgGuest38> tomorrow
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23:48 <+perlDreamer> that sounded like someone I should know...
23:50 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
23:50 <+MrHairgrease> prolly either william or diona
23:51 <+MrHairgrease> the wgguest38 came from the same domain as they do...
23:55 <@preaction> 22000 / 30000 in 1 hour... this is crazy fast
23:55 <@preaction> i just wonder how much CPU time its taking. is this something that can happen concurrently with other processes?
23:56 <+perlDreamer> what kind of hardware is this?
23:56 <+perlDreamer> does it have a hardware TCP-IP engine?
23:57 <@preaction> uh... it's one of our entry-level dedicated boxes
23:57 <+MrHairgrease> afaik sending much mail uses mainly memory
23:57 <+MrHairgrease> not so much cpu
23:57 < knowmad> man, am I that obvious!
23:57 <+MrHairgrease> yes
23:57 <+MrHairgrease> =)
23:57 < knowmad> btw, thanks for the help colin
23:57 <+perlDreamer> no problem
23:58 <@preaction> you know if you ask questions on your normal name, we aren't going to berate you or anything...
23:58 <@preaction> much
23:58 <+perlDreamer> I can't imagine that JSON would behave differently b/w windows and linux
23:58 < knowmad> LOL
23:58 < knowmad> i wasn't at my desk
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23:59 < knowmad> ahhh!
23:59 <@preaction> i predict we're starting to get into the 1:10 talker:lurker ratio. for every 10 people who join, only 1 is going to talk
23:59 <+perlDreamer> found it?
23:59 < knowmad> actually that may be it. we used CPAN to download the package
--- Day changed Wed Feb 20 2008
00:00 < knowmad> however, this is a Winblows box and we don't have a compiler 
00:00 < knowmad> there is some XS code in there as i recall
00:00 <+MrHairgrease> there's also a pure perl implementatiuon
00:00 <+MrHairgrease> i guess your windows box uses that one
00:00 < knowmad> yes, i did see that as well
00:01 <+MrHairgrease> as opposed to the linux wre
00:01 < knowmad> so you think it should fallback to using that
00:01 <+perlDreamer> knowmad, you can stick a $json->is_xs in there and it will tell you if it is
00:01 <+MrHairgrease> (i guess)
00:01 <+perlDreamer> (perldoc JSON)
00:01 <+MrHairgrease> yeah i guess it falls back to pp
00:01 < knowmad> it sounds like you've become quite knowledgeable about this JSON module
00:01 <+perlDreamer> unfortunately so
00:02 <+MrHairgrease> the json api change was good for nothing i think
00:03 <@preaction> nothing except making it more pretty
00:03 < knowmad> sounds like it's good for getting more people looking at the API cause it broke so many things
00:03 <+MrHairgrease> yeah so good for nothing
00:03 < knowmad> seems like he could have deprecated the earlier API for a little while
00:04 <@preaction> he did, kinda
00:04 <+MrHairgrease> did you read the comment on Config::JSON btw?
00:04 <@preaction> objToJson and jsonToObj both work
00:04 <@rizen> yeah, but without any params
00:04 <@rizen> which is useless for us because we use a bunch of params in most cases
00:05 < knowmad> ahh, so rizen is listening
00:05 <@preaction> He is always with us
00:05 <@rizen> i saw a bunch of bouncing in my doc, so i decided to have a peek
00:05 < knowmad> That's a bit scary
00:05 < knowmad> since you're here, did you get my last email re: registering?
00:06 <@rizen> it's there
00:06 <@rizen> just haven't gotten around to it
00:06 < knowmad> ok
00:06 <@rizen> 50+ messages waiting in my inbox
00:06 <@rizen> it's been busy this week
00:06 < knowmad> only 50, eh? you're doing better than me
00:07 <@preaction> does it count if i sent them to myself? i've got 22,000
00:07 <@rizen> 50 that have gone unresponded i get about 100 per day that i have to respond to
00:07 <@preaction> i'm popular!
00:07 <+perlDreamer> your ISP is going to kill you
00:07 < knowmad> or his boss will
00:07 <@preaction> plainblack's mail system is already kinda giving me attitude
00:07 <@preaction> but they are still downloading
00:11 <+perlDreamer> Hey, is GooeyOfSteel broken?
00:11 <+perlDreamer> he didn't register my new wiki page
00:12 <+perlDreamer> I feel slighted
00:13 < wgGuest23> hello
00:13 < wgGuest23> i have enable metadata in the admin console
00:15 < wgGuest23> in one of my collaboration system i have wroten a little description but i can see it
00:15 < wgGuest23> how does it work?
00:15 < wgGuest23> how can i see that description?
00:17 <+perlDreamer> wgGuest23: did you check your template to see if the template variable is used or not?
00:17 <+perlDreamer> It just might not be set up by default.
00:18 <@preaction> i think it's activated by the Show Description property in the Display tab, but i could be wrong
00:20 < wgGuest23> i am going to check
00:22 <+perlDreamer> preaction: I think you're thinking of displayTitle
00:22 <@preaction> probably
00:22 <@preaction> if there isn't one, then it's probably not in the template
00:22 <@preaction> and did you add a Synopsis on the Metadata tab? or a Description on the Properties tab?
00:23 <@preaction> Synopsis may have translated to Description
00:23 < wgGuest23> yes, i have added a synopsis
00:24 <@preaction> the synopsis isn't used in the templates by default, you'd have to add it
00:26 < wgGuest23> in which template?
00:27 <+perlDreamer> In the Collaboration System template that you're using
00:27 < wgGuest23> ok
00:27 < wgGuest23> what is the variable related to synopsis?
00:28 <@preaction> The list of template variables are in the Admin Console > Help section
00:28 <@preaction> look for Collaboration Template
00:29 < wgGuest23> ok
00:29  * preaction teaches men to fish
00:29 <+perlDreamer> or, edit your Collaboration System, choose the display tab, and the hit the edit button next to the template that you have selected.
00:29 <+perlDreamer> it's a shortcut
00:30 <@preaction> not to the help file, that's a shortcut to the template itself
00:30 <@preaction> or is there a link on that page to the help file?
00:30 <+perlDreamer> no, there should be
00:30 <@preaction> if there isn't, that should be a ...
00:31 <@preaction> get out of my head!
00:31  * perlDreamer turns up the gain :)
00:31 <+perlDreamer> ... you ... want ... pizza ....
00:31 <@preaction> could we put a namespace => "String", label in a help definition, and then match them up
00:31 <@preaction> mmmm... i should call glass nickel and get some pizza.
00:31 <@preaction> wait
00:31 <@preaction> YOU JERK!
00:32 <@preaction> it might be a very long lookup though... unless we cached it somehow
00:33 <+perlDreamer> there aren't that many help entries anymore
00:33 <@preaction> true, but do you want to look through potentially all of them?
00:33 <@preaction> i suppose that editing a template isn't a very common process
00:34 <@preaction> caching wouldn't be capital-N NEEDED
00:34 <+perlDreamer> there are 6102 i18n labels used in the help, including every entry and ISA's
00:35 <+perlDreamer> at 10:1, which is skeptical, that's only 610 entries
00:35 <+perlDreamer> not too bad
00:35 <@preaction> not bad at all
00:35 <@preaction> and some entries won't have namespaces, since they're "common" entries or some-such
00:37 <+perlDreamer> it really wants a dynamically generated reverse lookup
00:37 <+perlDreamer> that would be very fast
00:37 <+perlDreamer> at the cost of a 600 bucket hash
00:37 <+perlDreamer> in any case
00:37 <+perlDreamer> it's the first step to the template variable editor
00:37 <+perlDreamer> so it's needed
00:37 <@preaction> indeed
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00:50 < wgGuest23> preaction, in collaboration template variables, i don't find any variable related to metadata's synopsis
00:50 <@preaction> perlDreamer, do we have any place where global metadata variables are added to all asset template vars?
00:51 <+perlDreamer> yes
00:51 <@preaction> wgGuest23, it's <tmpl_var synopsis> <- that should work
00:51 <+perlDreamer> Asset->processTemplate (I think)
00:51 <+perlDreamer> preaction, synopsis is different from metadata
00:51 <+perlDreamer> even though it's in the same tab
00:51 <@preaction> ah
00:51 <@preaction> right
00:51 <@preaction> if it's missing from the Collaboration template though, is missing Help a bug?
00:51 <+perlDreamer> definitely
00:52 <@preaction> wgGuest23, i'd post that on the webgui bugs list: http://webgui.org/bugs
00:52 <+perlDreamer> to use metaData as a template variable, you just call it out by name
00:53 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: Setting the default language on your site - Edited on 2/19/2008 4:01 pm by colink  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/setting-the-default-language-on-your-site
00:53 <+perlDreamer> <tmplVar myMetaDataname>
00:53 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: Setting the default language on your site - Created on 2/19/2008 2:49 pm by colink  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/setting-the-default-language-on-your-site
00:53 <+perlDreamer> GooeyOfSteel: you need to eat more fiber
00:53 < nuba> somehow GooeyOfSteel's wikiwatch failed on a HTML::TreeBuilder error
00:54 < nuba> when erroring, irssi unloads the script
00:54 < nuba> so i just reloaded it
00:55 < wgGuest23> perlDreamer, <tmplVar myMetaDataname>  should work
00:55 <+perlDreamer> yes
00:55 <@preaction> vmpl
00:56 <@preaction> tmpl_var
00:56 <+perlDreamer> yeah, that one. tmpl_var, not tmplVar
00:56 <+perlDreamer> I've been building too many method names
00:56 < wgGuest23> ok
00:58 < wgGuest23> the property in the metadata is summary, so can i use <tmpl_var summary>?
00:58 <+perlDreamer> yes
01:00 <+perlDreamer> afk for a while
01:02 <@preaction> is anyone here who translates WebGUI but doesn't hack on WebGUI?
01:02 <@preaction> is a more descriptive "context" useful when you're translating?
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01:03 <@preaction> i'm starting to be more verbose with my "context" information
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02:25 <+perlDreamer> preaction: more context helps a lot
02:25 <+perlDreamer> otherwise, you have to crawl the core code to find it
02:25 <@preaction> yeah, that's what i was thinking
02:25 <+perlDreamer> the kuskie's have been translating spanish and german
02:26 <@preaction> the labels are only useful to programmers really
02:29 <@preaction> that could be a way for programmers who are not translators to help out. even if it is boring work
02:41 <+perlDreamer> I've found that the shorter a label is, the more context you need.
02:41 <+perlDreamer> Longer messages tend to have embedded context.
02:41 <+perlDreamer> Single words are hard.
02:41 <+perlDreamer> like Add
02:41 <+perlDreamer> Is that 1+1
02:41 <@preaction> yeah
02:41 <+perlDreamer> or "add me to your group"
02:41 <+perlDreamer> time to go home and think more about commerce
02:41 <@preaction> labels for form fields are usually one word
02:42 <@preaction> have fun
02:42 <+perlDreamer> I'm starting to think my reorg from last night was wrong
02:42 <+perlDreamer> Ship, ShipDriver, ShipDriver::FlatRate
02:42 <+perlDreamer> vs Ship, Ship::Driver, Ship::Driver::FlatRate
02:42 <@preaction> is Driver a subclass of Ship?
02:42 <+perlDreamer> as defined originally, yes.
02:42 <+perlDreamer> and the API supports it
02:43 <@preaction> then it should be Ship::Driver
02:43 <+perlDreamer> I (hastily) proposed the first form
02:43 <+perlDreamer> but am not starting to regret it
02:43 <+perlDreamer> now starting
02:43 <@rizen> why are you regretting it?
02:43 <+perlDreamer> because It rips all the guts out of ship
02:43 <+perlDreamer> leaving Ship just a dispatch class, like WebGUI::Form
02:43 <+perlDreamer> it may not be bad
02:43 <@rizen> it's just a package name
02:44 <@rizen> it doesn't have to imply anything else
02:44 <@rizen> Ship::Driver was never a subclass of Ship anyway
02:44 <@rizen> FYI
02:44 <@preaction> why do you need the Driver class at all if it just reimplements Ship stuff
02:44 <@preaction> Ship::FlatRate Ship::ByWeight
02:44 <@rizen> Ship is a factory
02:45 <@rizen> Ship::Driver is the base class for all other drivers
02:45 <@rizen> it's just an interface
02:45 <+perlDreamer> the system is designed like Workflow::Activity
02:45 <+perlDreamer> yeah, what he said
02:45 <@rizen> it's always good to have a standard interface class 
02:45 <@rizen> to start from
02:45 <@preaction> right
02:46 <+perlDreamer> object persistance is done in Ship, or Ship::Driver?
02:46 <@preaction> even if Ship is now really really small, it's probably better to have ShipDriver
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02:47 <@rizen> ship::driver should persist the stuff i would think
02:47 <@rizen> but there is only need for one table
02:47 <+perlDreamer> right
02:48 <@rizen> Ship is the DBI to ShipDriver's DBD
02:48 <@rizen> if that makes any sense to you
02:48 <+perlDreamer> some, I need to think more on it
02:48 <+perlDreamer> seems strange to have an object class without getters and setters (ShipDriver)
02:49 <@preaction> not really. Workflow::Activity doesn't get/set anything
02:49 <@preaction> it has instance scratch, sure
02:49 <+perlDreamer> but if Ship pulls from the DB and builds the object from the driver, it should be fine
02:50 <@rizen> i'm sorry
02:50 <@rizen> i said it backwards before
02:50 <@rizen> Ship does all the data storage
02:50 <@rizen> Ship::Driver is just an engine
02:50 <+perlDreamer> yeah, then I do understand it now
02:50 <+perlDreamer> we'll need to be careful how long running objects are handled, but it's not bad
02:52 <+perlDreamer> catch y'all later
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05:21 < nuba> 25 nicks, 3 bots, yeah, channel is growing
05:22 <@rizen> let's get 100 more bots in here
05:22 < nuba> question: whats the smoothest linux to run WRE on?
05:22 <+Radix-wrk> you guys need multiple logins too.. like me!
05:22 < nuba> im just moving from a freebsd+jail to linux+xen
05:22 < nuba> setup
05:23 <+Radix-wrk> define 'smoothest'?
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05:23 < apeiron__> etc.
05:23 < apeiron__> :)
05:23 <+Radix-wrk> hehe
05:23 -!- apeiron__ [n=apeiron@c-71-230-67-187.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit]
05:23 <+Radix-wrk> go apeiron, apeiron_ and apeiron__!
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05:24 <+Radix-wrk> Well if you looked carefully apeiron - you'd realise mine are from two different ip's :)
05:24 <@rizen> Red Hat Enterprise Linux (or Cent OS) is what PB deploys on
05:24 <+Radix-wrk> I'm using centos myself for that reason :)
05:24 < nuba> Radix-wrk: smooth as in Haagen Dazs...
05:24 <@apeiron> Radix-wrk, Ah yes indeed.
05:26 <@rizen> The big deal is that you should go with the linux that you're most comfortable with
05:26 <@rizen> cuz the WRE works pretty much the same on all linux distros
05:26 < nuba> k
05:26 <@rizen> but if you want the one that's best tested cuz it's the most deployed on, then RHEL/CentOS is your best bet
05:26 <@apeiron> Or just get a Mac. :D
05:27 <@rizen> btw...why are you switching away from freebsd?
05:27 < nuba> this is my personal machine, i want to play with xen on it
05:29 < nuba> its not like im going away from BSD, but im missing some linux action as well
05:30 < nuba> feeling a bit rusty in the linux front
05:30 <@rizen> ic
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06:15 <+perlDreamer> I'm baaack
06:15 <+perlDreamer> you guys are never going to be able to get rid od me :)
06:16 <@rizen> like this: http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/dope/imback.html
06:16 <@rizen> I'm back to put it in motion
06:16 <@rizen> I'm back to tell you no lies
06:16 <@rizen> Sit back and sip on this notion
06:16 <@rizen> I'm back to put it in drive
06:16 <@rizen> Is that how you are?
06:16 <@rizen> Cuz i love that song.
06:17 <@rizen> Saw those guys in concert. They rocked.
06:17 <+perlDreamer> You and me are like Perry Mason and Paul Drake
06:17 <+perlDreamer> In fact, you and Sarah should do the Perry and Della thing for Halloween this year
06:17 <+perlDreamer> now that she's a brunette
06:19 <@rizen> Is paul drake the investigator perry always had working for him?
06:19 <+perlDreamer> Yep.
06:19 <+perlDreamer> He's the one that gets thumped all the time by the bad guys
06:21 <@rizen> Sarah likes that you're already thinking about halloween
06:21 <+perlDreamer> I try to look out for you guys
06:24 <@rizen> the only problem with your theory is the odd evil factor
06:24 <+perlDreamer> Dr. Who isn't evil
06:24 <@rizen> every other year my costume is an evil character
06:24 <@rizen> and dr who was last year
06:24 <+perlDreamer> I see
06:24 <+perlDreamer> I'll think about it :)
06:24 <+perlDreamer> I'm too short to be Perry
06:24 <+perlDreamer> unless Kathy walked around on her knees
06:25 <@rizen> the year before last i was one of the butchers from a movie called Hostel
06:25 <@rizen> I was thinking about maybe doing Satan Claus this year
06:26 <+perlDreamer> You could do the Billy Bob Thornton version
06:27 <+perlDreamer> Or the Dean Koontz version
06:27 <@rizen> santa suit dyed black, fangs, bloodshot eyes, and instead of a bag of goodies it would be sickle or something like that
06:28 <@rizen> i thought about lighting the hat on fire, but that's just too dangerous
06:28 < diakopter> black beard/mustache
06:29 <@rizen> oh of course, i've already got that growing in
06:29 <@rizen> i was also thinking about getting some cool contacts
06:29 <+perlDreamer> slit eyes
06:30 <@rizen> http://www.9mmsfx.com/lenses.html
06:30 <@rizen> my favorite are these: http://9mmsfx.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=9SE&Product_Code=J&Category_Code=SL1
06:33 <+perlDreamer> nice
06:45 <+perlDreamer> I'm glad you didn't go with the pseudo-user commerce idea
06:47 <@rizen> you mean on the black blog?
06:47 <+perlDreamer> yeah
06:47 <@rizen> that was a no brainer
06:48 <@rizen> pd, there's a needed change to the tax system
06:48 <@rizen> actually...maybe i better post this to the dev board
06:51 <+perlDreamer> I'll hold off on starting the ShipDriver, then
06:54 <@rizen> not sure how big of a deal it will be for you to implement, but i just posted
06:54 <@rizen> so go take a look
06:54 <+perlDreamer> actually, that's no problem (yet)
06:55 <+perlDreamer> Without a cart, there's no way to test/build the calculate method
06:55 <@rizen> yeah i know
06:55 <@rizen> and without a sku i can't build the cart
06:56 <+perlDreamer> we just need to be sure that it gets into the design docs
06:56 <+perlDreamer> I can do that.
06:56 <@rizen> so i'm working on sku, but i have to finish the new WRE first because of the stupid json problem
06:56 <@rizen> i'm putting this in the sku design docs
06:56 <@rizen> please update the tax docs
06:56 <+perlDreamer> the WRE/JSON thing will free up tons of time from lots of people
06:56 <+perlDreamer> I'm tired of doing JSON Q/A
06:57 <+perlDreamer> no offense to those stuck asking
06:57 <@rizen> i know...i hoped to have the new wre out today, but i ran into an apache compile problem
06:57 <@rizen> not sure what's going on
06:57 <@rizen> it just stopped compiling for no apparent reason
06:58 <+perlDreamer> weird
06:58 <@rizen> and tomorrow is an accounting day
06:58 <@rizen> so i'm won't get to work onit until thursday again
06:58 <+perlDreamer> So that makes it Thursday before you can get back to WRE
06:58 <@rizen> sorry that i'm lame
06:58 <+perlDreamer> Dude, _all_ you have to do is manage several people, do the accounting, run a company
06:58 <+perlDreamer> get your plumbing fixed, get your computer fixed
06:59 <+perlDreamer> Of course you're lame!
06:59 <+perlDreamer> I suppose you'd like to time to sleep and eat, too?
06:59 <@rizen> no i stopped both of those long ago
06:59 <+perlDreamer> well, that's better
07:00 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5495 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/sku.pod: an override for the default tax rate
07:06 <+perlDreamer> docs committed
07:15 <+perlDreamer> ShipDriver needs a properties accessor, since we're building with Class::InsideOut
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07:24 <@rizen> sorry pd, my computer decided to take a crap
07:24 <@rizen> what was it you were asking?
07:24 <+perlDreamer> Just realized that ShipDriver will need a properties accessor, since we're building with Class::InsideOut
07:24 <@rizen> what does class inside out have anything to do with it?
07:25 <+perlDreamer> Shipper has a get method that returns the contents of the ShipDriver object
07:25 <+perlDreamer> it won't be able to look inside that object to grab the hash directly
07:27 <@rizen> first of all it is never good design practice to do it even if you could
07:28 <@rizen> but secondly...i'm still not seeing what data that Shipper would have to read from ShipDriver
07:29 <@rizen> What am i missing?
07:29 <+perlDreamer> I'm not sure you're missing anything, it's probably me
07:29 <@rizen> what method in Shipper would call this new accessor method in ShipDriver?
07:29 <+perlDreamer> get
07:31 <@rizen> damn it...i was right when i said it earlier today
07:32 <@rizen> that get and set methods should be moved to shipdriver
07:33 <@rizen> Hold on, i'm confusing myself
07:40 <@rizen> crap, now i see why you're so confused by this
07:40 <@rizen> i did a piss poor job designing it
07:40 <+perlDreamer> Let's talk through the design then
07:40 <@rizen> i didn't keep a clear separation between factory and driver
07:40 <@rizen> ok starting from scratch
07:41 <@rizen> Shipper is supposed to be the factory so it should have methods available to tell you what shipdrivers are available, both configured and unconfigured
07:41 <+perlDreamer> www_listShippers
07:41 <@rizen> forget www_methods at this point
07:42 <+perlDreamer> ok
07:42 <@rizen> we're just talking api stuff here
07:42 <@rizen> i should be able to say
07:42 <@rizen> getDrivers
07:42 <@rizen> and getShippers
07:42 <@rizen> getDrivers would just give you a list of the available drivers from the config file
07:42 <@rizen> getShippers would be configured drivers
07:42 <+perlDreamer> okay
07:43 <@rizen> it should also have a create method, which it does
07:43 <@rizen> but that's really just an easy wrapper for a driver
07:43 <@rizen> so that you can do
07:43 <@rizen> my $shipper = WG::Shop::Shipper->create(\%params);
07:44 <@rizen> the same thing for new
07:44 <@rizen> my $shipper = WG::Shop::Shipper->new($id);
07:44 <@rizen> which is returning a WG::Shop::ShipDriver object
07:45 <@rizen> but it's looking up everything from the id
07:45 <@rizen> so you don't have to know it going in
07:45 <+perlDreamer> right
07:45 <@rizen> similar to what newByDynamicClass in Asset
07:45 <+perlDreamer> or User
07:45 <+perlDreamer> I want a brand new one, create
07:45 <+perlDreamer> I want an existing one, new
07:45 <@rizen> exactly
07:46 <@rizen> the idea is that as a programmer you only ever load WebGUI::Shop::Shipper and it dynamically creates/loads all of the driver objects for you
07:46 <@rizen> so WebGUI::Shop::Shipper is really just a helper class
07:47 <+perlDreamer> who does object persistance?
07:47 <+perlDreamer> Shipper?
07:47 <@rizen> WebGUI::Shop::ShipDriver
07:47 <+perlDreamer> okay
07:47 <@rizen> the base class for all drivers
07:48 <+perlDreamer> so all ship driver specifics get stored in the options column of the driver table, as JSON?
07:48 <@rizen> yes
07:48 <@rizen> that part is right
07:48 <@rizen> it's just in the wrong class
07:48 <@rizen> as far as my docs go
07:48 <@rizen> let me update the docs
07:48 <@rizen> i'll do it now
07:48 <+perlDreamer> so delete, getId, get and set all get moved into ShipDriver
07:48 <@rizen> yup
07:49 <@rizen> i have to update the one for payment drivers too cuz that's also screwd
07:49 <+perlDreamer> okay
07:50 <@rizen> i'm sorry for screwing the pooch on the description there...it all made sense in my head as i was writing it
07:51 <+perlDreamer> It probably didn't help with me suggesting format changes, either.
07:51 <+perlDreamer> I'll put on my "chip design" spec reading hat tomorrow, and go through it very carefully.
07:51 <@rizen> no that had nothing to do with it
07:51 <@rizen> its all about my 28mb head
07:52 <@rizen> the commerce system takes about 1 gb of ram to bring it all in at once
07:52 <+perlDreamer> It's a big system
07:52 <+perlDreamer> and it all has to dance together
07:52 <+perlDreamer> and integrate into what we have today.
07:52 <@rizen> especially since i'm also taking into account stuff that isn't documented here, because it's part of the future system that we're building twoard
07:53 <+perlDreamer> I'm going to get on the stretching board
07:53 <+perlDreamer> maybe you could be a physical therapist for Halloween :)
07:53 <+perlDreamer> catch you tomorrow, rizen
07:53 <@rizen> later
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13:21 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5496 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/commerce.pod: update tax calculation taking into account tax override on a per product basis
13:21 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5497 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/commerce.pod: add properties accessor to ship driver
13:21 < CIA-40> WebGUI: graham * r5498 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/File.pm): fixed: editing file assets is broken
13:21 < CIA-40> WebGUI: graham * r5499 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.4.25 release
13:21 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5500 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/ (cart.pod pay.pod commerce.pod shipper.pod sku.pod): fixing pay and shipper docs, and cleaned up special characters in the others
13:21 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5501 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/pay.pod: couple of missing methods
13:21 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5502 /releases/WebGUI_7.4.25-stable: Release 7.4.25-stable
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16:11 < SDuensin> Morning.
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16:13 < BartJol> morning
16:22 < perlmonkey2> morning
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16:30 < BartJol> 7.5.2 dutch i18n files are updated and comiited to svn
16:37  * SDuensin really needs to upgrade his WebGUI.  <sigh>
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16:37 < wgGuest91> hello
16:37 < BartJol> hi
16:37 < BartJol> welcome
16:37 < wgGuest91> thanks
16:38 < wgGuest91> BartJol, i have the next error with spectre Couldn't execute operation : WebGUI::Operation::VersionTag::www_approveVersionTag. Root cause: Can't call method "getNextActivity" on an undefined value at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/VersionTag.pm line 74.
16:38 < wgGuest91> spectre is running, i tested all the sites ok
16:39 < perlmonkey2> SDuensin: Can't you just use 'svn update' :)
16:39 < SDuensin> perlmonkey2 - I'm chicken.  :-)
16:39 < BartJol> ah, and if you do a perl spectre.pl --run --debug?
16:39 < BartJol> what do you see
16:39 < BartJol> (on the server it is)
16:39 < SDuensin> My server is in flux.  Was hoping to get all my domain shuffling done before I did the WebGUI thing.  Taking me forever!
16:40 < BartJol> mostly in /data/WebGUI/sbin
16:40 < wgGuest91> let's me check
16:41 < wgGuest91> if i run spectre perl spectre.pl --run --debug, i don't see any error
16:42 < BartJol> and any workflows being executed?
16:42 < perlmonkey2> SDuensin: domain shuffling?  changing domain names?
16:42 < SDuensin> Moving from one registrar to another.
16:43 < perlmonkey2> ouch
16:43 < wgGuest91> i have 2 workflows suspended
16:44 < BartJol> and you tried to start them manually?
16:44 < BartJol> supposing you do have 7.4.x or higher
16:45 < wgGuest91> yes, i have 7.4.24
16:46 < wgGuest91> no, i don't tried to start manually
16:46 < BartJol> ah, well you can do that via your site
16:46 < BartJol> via the admin console and workflows
16:46 < BartJol> or spectre
16:47 < BartJol> you should see some suspended workflows
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16:47 < BartJol> then you can press run to start them
16:47 < BartJol> heya
16:48 < wgGuest91> i pressed start to run them but they continue suspended 
16:48  * perlmonkey2 needs to find whichever of his neighbors has a HAM radio and cut their power.  I'm tired of hearing morse code tapped out in static on my speakers.
16:48 < BartJol> mmm
16:48 < wgGuest91> they have waiting last state
16:49 < BartJol> no screen appearing, saying that it is done?
16:49 < wgGuest91> no
16:50 < BartJol> well something isn't very good then :)
16:50 < BartJol> mmmm let me think
16:51 < BartJol> where does the error appear, in the webgui.log file?
16:51 < wgGuest91> i have noticed since i upgraded last week certain problem wiht spectre
16:51 < wgGuest91> yes
16:52 < BartJol> have you tried to do one of the next two things
16:52 < BartJol>  - fixed: creating new ad spaces is broken
16:52 < BartJol>  - fixed: editing file assets is broken
16:52 < BartJol> because those are fixed in 7.4.25
16:54 < wgGuest91> the workflows continues suspended but if i run perl spectre.pl --shutdown and then perl spectre.pl --daemon, perl spectre.pl --status, they don't appear as suspended
16:55 < wgGuest91> i wait some seconds and then i run again perl spectre.pl --status and again they are suspended
16:55 < BartJol> and do not appear on the site?
16:55 < BartJol> oh
16:55 < wgGuest91> yes, appear in the site too
16:55 < BartJol> well, they have to wait a little while to feel suspended, it's a new row 
16:57 < BartJol> so that I understand
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16:59 < BartJol> I'm checking the api
16:59 < wgGuest91> ok
17:04 < BartJol> mmm can't find the approve VersionTag activity in the API
17:05 < BartJol> that's strange
17:07 < wgGuest91> yes
17:10 < BartJol> what kind of approval workflow do you use?
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17:14 < wgGuest91> BartJol, commit with approval
17:14 < BartJol> mmm
17:14 < BartJol> if youy set in temporarily to without, are they executed?
17:15 < BartJol> but then correct English
17:17 < BartJol> brb, have to help a collegae
17:18 < wgGuest91> BartJol, i have this warning with spectre and other some assets WebGUI::i18n::Spanish::Spectre failed to compile because Can't locate WebGUI/i18n/Spanish/Spectre.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /data/WebGUI/lib /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.8.8 /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.8 /usr/share/perl/5.8 /usr/local/lib/site_perl . /etc/apache2) at (eval 257) line 2.
17:19 < wgGuest91> the error is clear can not locate Spectre.pm in the spanish's folder
17:20 < wgGuest91> in that folder i don't have the Spectre.pm
17:21 < wgGuest91> where can i obtain that file to put there?
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17:23 < wgGuest67> has anyone seen perlDreamer today?
17:23 < BartJol> not yet wgGuest 67
17:24 < BartJol> well, there are probably quite a few i18n files missing in spanish
17:24 < wgGuest67> thanks BartJol. i need some of his expert help with writing tests
17:24 < BartJol> sounds familiar
17:25 < wgGuest67> cya
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17:26 < BartJol> where did you get the i18n?
17:26 < BartJol> and when?
17:26 < wgGuest91> about one year ago
17:27 < BartJol> i18n.webgui.org: Spanish (8.8% Complete)
17:27 < wgGuest91> correct
17:27 < BartJol> mmm, should default tyo english as far as I know
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17:28 < BartJol> I got that error to in the dutch version somehwere I believe
17:31 <@preaction> if you want a quick fix, make a file called Spectre.pm in that directory with three lines: 
17:31 <@preaction> package WebGUI::i18n::Spanish::Spectre;
17:31 <@preaction> our $I18N = { };
17:31 <@preaction> 1;
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17:32 <@preaction> that might work, not sure though
17:32 <@preaction> it should compile at least, and try to look things up. then when it doesn't find any, it should default to English
17:32 <@preaction> what version of WebGUI are you using? that sounds like a bug, or an RFE that wouldn't be too hard to implement
17:32 < BartJol> was the transaltion for a 7.3 version? that had no spectre at all as far as I rememeber
17:33 < BartJol> he uses 7.4.24
17:33 < BartJol> or she
17:33 <@preaction> 7.3 had spectre, it was added in 6.99 i believe
17:33 < wgGuest91> ok
17:33 <@preaction> not sure if it had any i18n for Spectre though
17:33 < BartJol> yes, but not in the admin console
17:33 <@preaction> right
17:33 < BartJol> that's what i meant, sorry
17:34 <@preaction> a year ago it would've been 7.3 or 7.2
17:34 < BartJol> that's what just sprung to my mind 
17:35 < BartJol> so if you go to i18n, download a translation and install that, it should exist, it is empty however, but should prevent some errors
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17:35 < BartJol> or am I mistaken?
17:35 < BartJol> it is 7.5.2 currently
17:35 <@preaction> it should work, yes
17:36 <@preaction> i just worry that the translation wgGuest91 has is more complete than the current. but the current one has removed a lot of stuff from Help
17:37 <@preaction> we've also got perlDreamer and his family working on that translation. though any help on it would be appreciated i expect
17:38 < BartJol> mm, my spanish is c**p
17:38 <@preaction> likewise
17:38 < BartJol> Uno serveca por favor
17:38 < BartJol> dos mas
17:38 < BartJol> tres mas
17:38 < BartJol> cerveca probably
17:39 <@preaction> one beer please?
17:40 < BartJol> exactly, that's all I learned before going to Barcelona
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17:40 <@preaction> eh, that's all ya need
17:40 < BartJol> but i already vamos a la playa
17:40 < BartJol> already knew
17:40 < BartJol> hee Joeri
17:41 < BartJol> but wgGuest 91 can you let us know what happened after installing a knew language pack?
17:42 < BartJol> new
17:42 < BartJol> arg
17:45 < nuba> BartJol: is that something from the "garbled crap" language pack ?
17:45 < nuba> these things you're muttering..
17:45 < BartJol> :)
17:46 < nuba> we should ask JT to contribute with a Garbled Crap translation
17:46 < BartJol> well, why shouldn't I go to the beach and order a beer
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17:46 < BartJol> Martin will also be very good at that
17:56 < wgGuest91> BartJol, i downloaded the new spanish.tar.gz and put it in the specific folder
17:56 < BartJol> ah, progress
17:57 < wgGuest91> it is more complete than the last version that i had
17:57 < BartJol> well
17:58 < BartJol> your version had some other things probably
17:58 < BartJol> that's not in this translation
17:59 < wgGuest91> ok
18:01 < wgGuest91> BartJol, thanks for your help
18:01 < BartJol> well, let's hope it helps
18:01 < wgGuest91> te debo la cerveza
18:02 < BartJol> ah, come to the wuc
18:03 < BartJol> if that means you want to give me a beer :)
18:03 < BartJol> ask for the Dutch guys...
18:03 < BartJol> what happened to your version tags?
18:03 < nuba> wgGuest91: si te es posible, escrebe en el wiki lo que aprendiste aqui con BartJol para ayudar otros hablantes de espanol
18:04 < nuba> que vengan a tener las mismas dudas que tuviste
18:04 < nuba> durante la instalacion de la traducion de WebGUI
18:04 < wgGuest91> listo
18:05 < wgGuest91> de una
18:05 < nuba> yo no lo hago por que tengo toneladas de tarea, y tambien porque espanol no es mi lengua madre
18:06 < BartJol> I feel a bit excluded
18:06 < wgGuest91> BartJol, the spectre doesn't show me the error again
18:07 < BartJol> great
18:07 < wgGuest91> i have been checked, and all seems to be ok
18:07 < wgGuest91> if i have problems again, i will be ask you
18:07 < wgGuest91> thanks again
18:07 < BartJol> well, I can't solve everything unfortunately
18:07 < BartJol> no problem
18:07 < BartJol> my pleasure
18:08 < nuba> BartJol: get ready to learn some spanish. I saw in the news the other day that due to fertility differences between the white and the latin population in the US, latinos will be the majority of the US population in about 50 years...
18:08 < BartJol> ah, and in the Netherlands?
18:08 < BartJol> but some spanish can be usefull
18:09 < nuba> by then, we should be at WebGUI 57.0.1-beta
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18:09 < BartJol> let's not hope so
18:10 < nuba> and WebGUI will be doing whatever it is CMSs do in the future
18:11 < nuba> like Collab Assets for people to discuss space hostels
18:11 < BartJol> probably also make coffe
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18:16 <+perlDreamer> BartJol: Did you get the email with the testing presentation?
18:16 < BartJol> i did, thank you
18:16 <+perlDreamer> very good
18:17 < BartJol> will be studying it tonight
18:17 < BartJol> and bring the dev book
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18:18 <+perlDreamer> knowmad: You can check the history page in the wiki to see if someone is deleting your attachments.
18:18 < BartJol> with the dev book, did you mean the administrators guide
18:19 <+perlDreamer> No, the soon to be published Developer's Guide
18:19 < BartJol> ah, I don't have that yet then :)
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18:27 < BartJol> Martin!
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18:48 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5503 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/shipper.pod: 
18:48 < CIA-40> WebGUI: In indented (literal) text, POD markup is disabled, so => can be used
18:48 < CIA-40> WebGUI: directly.
18:49 < knowmad> perlDreamer: there's been noone else editing the wiki entry and i know that i didn't delete the attachment
18:49 < knowmad> i'll update the bug report
18:50 <+perlDreamer> well, it's cool that someone isn't hacking your wiki page
18:50 <+perlDreamer> but bummer about losing the files anyway
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19:03 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5504 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Asset.t: add an explicit test for the safe copying of Asset properties inside get
19:03 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5505 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/t/Asset/Asset.t: backport get test
19:03 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5506 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/t/Asset/Asset.t: side porting over new Asset get test from HEAD
19:20 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5507 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/shipper.pod: coupon => shipper table
19:21 <@preaction> wait. are you guys going to get commerce into 7.5?
19:31 < knowmad> perlDreamer: are you going to be around this afternoon? 
19:38 <+perlDreamer> yes
19:38 <+perlDreamer> preaction: yes, too
19:38 <+perlDreamer> I think we have a may deadline?
19:38 < knowmad> great, i have some testing questions for you re: JSON
19:39 <+perlDreamer> I haven't done much JSON testing, but I'll be happy to chat with you
19:39 < knowmad> well, it's more about writing wg tests to expose the bug we're getting in json 
19:39 < knowmad> the current Workflow.t does not expose the issue on our windoze server
19:39 < knowmad> i need to write a Workflow/Instance.t test script
19:39 <+perlDreamer> I can talk/help with that
19:40 <+perlDreamer> actually, Workflow.t could use a good clean-up refactor itself
19:45 < knowmad> great, thanks
19:52 -!- BartJol [n=plainstu@54-167.surfsnel.dsl.internl.net] has joined #webgui
20:23 -!- dapperedodo [n=dappered@ip56503e61.direct-adsl.nl] has quit []
20:33 < nuba> for those having issues with spectre, he just joined #wikipedia
20:34 < nuba> > spectre [n=spectre@84.120.142.216.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #wikipedia
20:34 < nuba> so go there and give him a good beating ;)
20:34 < nuba> tell him to stop making fuss over JSON and his gang
20:35 <@preaction> a piece of your mind wrapped around a baseball bat, served at high velocity
20:36 <@apeiron> preaction, You mean a cluebat?
20:49 <+perlDreamer> w00t!
20:49 <+perlDreamer> I grok the spec
20:54 -!- dapperedodo [n=dappered@ip56503e61.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #webgui
20:55 <+perlDreamer> dapperedodo: that is some spec, for the Ogone plugin
21:00 -!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@wsip-70-164-69-210.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving."]
21:16 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5508 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/pay.pod: eliminate references to the coupon table
21:17 <+MrHairgrease> can someone please debug me?
21:18 <+MrHairgrease> I'm filled to the brim with gooey crap
21:18  * MrHairgrease praises nasal decongestant
21:18 < knowmad> sounds like you need an exorcist rather than a programmer
21:18 < knowmad> what's up?
21:19 <+MrHairgrease> I have this terrible cold
21:19 <+MrHairgrease> some stupid bacteria I guess
21:19 < knowmad> i thought colds were viral
21:19 <+MrHairgrease> I don't care which marketing scheme they use
21:19 <+MrHairgrease> =)
21:19  * perlDreamer goes to the gym
21:20 <+perlDreamer> Exercise is good for the immune system
21:20 < knowmad> if only we had that model
21:20 < knowmad> indeed. i'll miss my swim today due to other mtgs (yuck)
21:20 <+perlDreamer> ;) we do. Program exercise is called tests 
21:20 <+MrHairgrease> exersize, exorsize who cares =)
21:21 <+MrHairgrease> s/s/c/
21:21 <+MrHairgrease> what do you do in the gym?
21:21 <+MrHairgrease> weightlifting
21:21 <+MrHairgrease> tredmilling?
21:24 -!- apeiron [n=apeiron@c-71-230-67-187.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["switching servers"]
21:24 -!- apeiron [n=apeiron@c-71-230-67-187.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
21:24 -!- mode/#webgui [+o apeiron] by ChanServ
21:30 -!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@wsip-70-164-69-210.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #webgui
21:31 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5509 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/commerce_flowchart.png: added missing line between login and payment options
21:40 -!- dapperedodo [n=dappered@ip56503e61.direct-adsl.nl] has quit []
21:41 < BartJol> ah, was the amount of dutch guys on this channel exceeded again? 
21:42 <@apeiron> Wow, 30 nicks before dapper left.
21:47 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5509 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/commerce_flowchart.png: added missing line between login and payment options
21:47 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5510 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/shipper.pod: typo on the calculation
21:59 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: WRE-Building - Edited on 2/20/2008 1:49 pm by knowmad  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/wre-building
22:02 < perlmonkey2> 29 people and rizen isn't even here.
22:05 < knowmad> it looks like he's working on the commerce system
22:06 <@preaction> praise allah he's working on the commerce system
22:19 -!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@wsip-70-164-69-210.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving."]
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22:48 -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ
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23:03 <@preaction> apeiron, seriously? YUI 2.5.0 was released TODAY? talk about coincidence :p
23:03 -!- SynQ [n=koen@e97024.upc-e.chello.nl] has joined #WebGUI
23:03 < SynQ> nite
23:04 <+MrHairgrease> hey koen!
23:04 < BartJol>  Hee martin
23:04 < SynQ> hey martin!
23:04 < SynQ> hi bart
23:04 <+MrHairgrease> hey bart
23:04 < SynQ> the dutch team seizes power
23:05 < BartJol> yeay 3 of 29, we're the majority
23:05 < SynQ> I feel like the Johan Cruyf of the dutch team
23:05 <+MrHairgrease> ah, you like round balls...
23:05 < BartJol> the guy who talks a lot, but no one understands him?
23:05 < SynQ> that one
23:05 < SynQ> :)
23:05 < SynQ> there are two sides to this a and b
23:05 < SynQ> :)
23:06 < BartJol> any json problems anywhere?
23:06 < nuba> everywhere
23:06 < BartJol> well, it must be a feature then
23:06 <+MrHairgrease> specially for koen: http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gi98iEziKQ
23:07 < BartJol> that one
23:07 < BartJol> how's your cold?
23:08 < BartJol> do they still allow you in the clean room?
23:08 <+MrHairgrease> everytime i sneeze it makes my eyes water
23:08 < nuba> whats the status of the JSON messup? is there a list somewhere of compatible versions for WRE, WebGUI, Config::JSON and JSON ?
23:08 <+MrHairgrease> actually i've been there today
23:09 <+MrHairgrease> believeme that an itch in your nose is not the nicest way to work with acids...
23:09 < nuba> cause thats something that needs to go to a wiki article
23:09 <+perlDreamer> nuba: 0.8.2, 7.4.24, 7.5.2, and latest on Config::JSON and JSON
23:09 <+perlDreamer> but that's just working for me here, and I don't use the WRE
23:09 -!- juan [n=juangui@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has left #webgui []
23:09 <+perlDreamer> MrHairgrease: weight lifting, calisthenics, treadmill, bikes
23:09 < nuba> perlDreamer: the latest or the ones recommended in gotcha.txt (which arent the latest iirc) ?
23:10 <+perlDreamer> Latest ones from CPAN
23:10  * MrHairgrease will think again before picking a fight with perlDreamer
23:11 < nuba> perlDreamer: thx. i dont know how that relates to the WRE, but i think JT said here about hurrying a WRE release because of this JSON issue
23:11 <+perlDreamer> I'm a hacker, not a fighter
23:12 <+perlDreamer> nuba: yes.  It's supposed to include the newest JSON stuff
23:12 <@apeiron> preaction, Yeah, today, of all days.
23:15 -!- TheSeparator [n=seppie@ip565f19be.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #webgui
23:15 < SynQ> ok
23:15 < SynQ> at least I can see that the dev-list and the black blog are alive and kicking again
23:16 < SynQ> so now I'm going to do something really dutch and complain about that :P
23:16 < SynQ> it's so hard to read all of it
23:16 < SynQ> it takes so much time
23:16 <+perlDreamer> is it "dutch" to complain?
23:16 < SynQ> but I love that it's alive
23:16 <+perlDreamer> I thought americans had a patent on that
23:16 < SynQ> no way man
23:16 <+MrHairgrease> everybody loves to xcomplain
23:16 < SynQ> dutch people are way better in complaining
23:16 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: be mjd
23:16 < perlbot> <mjd> OMG u r teh gr8est 10x thx k bye!
23:16 < CIA-40> WebGUI: graham * r5511 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm: don't write .wgaccess files for world readable storage locations
23:17 < SynQ> especially if something costs money
23:17 <@apeiron> perlDreamer, You're confusing perlbot with purl unfortunately.
23:17 < CIA-40> WebGUI: graham * r5512 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.5.2-7.5.3.pl: remove unneeded .wgaccess files
23:17 < CIA-40> WebGUI: graham * r5513 /WebGUI/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt: note .wgaccess changes
23:17 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5514 /tools/translationserver.cgi: fixing a typo colin made
23:17 <+perlDreamer> crap!
23:17 <+perlDreamer> what did I do this time?
23:17 < SynQ> hehe
23:17 <@apeiron> The 'be xyz' feature of perlbot doesn't reference specific quotes established for individuals.
23:17 <+MrHairgrease> perlbot: be perlDreamer
23:17 < perlbot> <perlDreamer> OMG u r teh gr8est 10x thx k bye!
23:17 <+MrHairgrease> hahaha
23:17 <@apeiron> perlbot, l2rng
23:17 <@apeiron> perlbot, be MrHairgrease 
23:17 < perlbot> <MrHairgrease> Hi, can I paste this very long script I downloaded and let you fix it for me plz??
23:18 <@apeiron> perlbot, thanks
23:18 < perlbot> If you want to thank us, help out the perl community by sending some money (even if just a couple of dollars) to The Perl Foundation. http://donate.perlfoundation.org/
23:18 < SynQ> pff
23:18 <@apeiron> ^^^ I did it, you can too!
23:18 < SynQ> don't get me started on complaining about the perlbot ;)
23:18 <@apeiron> Talk to Chris62vw over in #perl.
23:18 <+perlDreamer> fist of all, it's not Dutch
23:18 <@apeiron> But be prepared to send patches. :)
23:18 <+perlDreamer> so that sucks
23:18 <+perlDreamer> secondly, it's hard to read and doesn't talk much
23:19 < SynQ> what is hard to read?
23:19 <+perlDreamer> perlbot
23:19 < SynQ> ah
23:19 < SynQ> ok
23:19 < BartJol> or dutch
23:20 < SynQ> you want to learn some practical dutch here on channel?
23:20 <+perlDreamer> sure
23:20 < SynQ> ok let's start with getting out of bed
23:20 <+MrHairgrease> nobody responded?!? can I paste this very long script I downloaded and let you fix it for me plz??
23:20 <+MrHairgrease> here it is: http://webgui.pastebin.org/20470
23:20 < SynQ> huh
23:20 < SynQ> it's 99 bottles of beer
23:21 < SynQ> when you are still in bed and don't have the nerve to get up you might say
23:21 < SynQ> jezus, is het nu alweer ochtend
23:21 <+MrHairgrease> yes but i want it to build my website for me
23:21 < SynQ> which translates: jezus, is it morning allready
23:21 <+MrHairgrease> so you must fix it because you made webgui
23:21 <+MrHairgrease> and webgui makes websites
23:22 <+perlDreamer> How do you pronounce it?
23:22 < SynQ> ah
23:22 <+perlDreamer> does it sound like
23:22 <+perlDreamer> iz bet noo all were awk tend?
23:23 < BartJol> not too bad
23:23 < SynQ> like this: jayzuus, is hit new all weer oogth hint
23:23 < BartJol> now you sound like a german, trying to talk dutch
23:23 < BartJol> well, our g isn't pronounccable
23:23 <@apeiron> Isn't pronouncable or doesn't have a sound?
23:24 <@apeiron> They're different. :)
23:24 < SynQ> pff
23:24 < SynQ> this proves to be harder than I thought
23:24 < SynQ> let's start with some simple swearing then
23:24 <+MrHairgrease> our g is more a throat sound
23:24 < SynQ> 'Je moeder!'
23:24 <+MrHairgrease> en de jouwe
23:24 <@apeiron> It'd be easy but I'm just playing devil's advocate.
23:24 <+perlDreamer> so it's a glottal g
23:24 <+perlDreamer> I can do that
23:24 < SynQ> '
23:24 < BartJol> de g also is available in jiddisch
23:25 <+MrHairgrease> too bad i don't sp[eak jiddish
23:25 < SynQ> 'Je moeder!' means that you might be ugly but you'r mom is actually much worse
23:25 < BartJol> me neither, but I know they have it
23:26 < SynQ> hmm
23:26 < SynQ> my wife is calling me
23:26 < SynQ> seductively i must add
23:26 < BartJol> what is she calling you?
23:26 < BartJol> oh
23:26 <+perlDreamer> babies
23:26 < BartJol> schatje?
23:26 < SynQ> If I'd like to come and join her in bath
23:27 < SynQ> the bath
23:27 < nuba> we need a pastevoice
23:27 < nuba> besides the pastebin and the imagebin
23:27 <+perlDreamer> koen: you want to have kids when you're young
23:27 < SynQ> ok
23:27 < BartJol> yeah, and then you vcan learn me spanish
23:27 < SynQ> I'm off then
23:27 <+perlDreamer> that way, when they jump on you the doctor's bills are smaller
23:27 < SynQ> later
23:27 < SynQ> ~ < hoping for some nice and fertile hours to come :)
23:28 <+perlDreamer> no hot baths
23:28 < nuba> huh
23:28 <+perlDreamer> no tightie whities
23:28 <+perlDreamer> and no alcohol
23:28 < SynQ> ah well
23:29 < SynQ> I'll let you know when we have managed to get pregnant ok
23:29 < SynQ> bye for now
23:29 < BartJol> that's good for us too
23:29 -!- SynQ [n=koen@e97024.upc-e.chello.nl] has quit ["bath time!"]
23:32 <+MrHairgrease> why does koen always put images in my head...
23:33 <+MrHairgrease> it's not good for my psyche
23:33 <+perlDreamer> cool, download links on the i18n server
23:33 < BartJol> I think cantos is jpoining them as well
23:33 <+perlDreamer> who is cantos?
23:33 < BartJol> the dog
23:34 <+perlDreamer> even dogs need baths
23:34 < nuba> and some love.
23:36  * MrHairgrease is grossed out
23:36 < BartJol> but the percentage on dutch is down to 99.9 again :(
23:37 <+perlDreamer> it's only about 10-15 entries, BartJol
23:37 <+perlDreamer> should take you very long at all to fix up
23:37 < BartJol> but I fixed them today already
23:37 < nuba> i wish I knew enough dutch just so I could go there, translate 15 strings, and say "I just finished one translation"
23:38 < BartJol> give me the link to the missing ones then
23:38 <+perlDreamer> there's 1 thing in Asset_SQLForm
23:38 <+perlDreamer> in the edit screen, if you scroll right it gives you the tally 249/250
23:38 < BartJol> ah, that darn empty one
23:39 <+perlDreamer> that's a bug
23:39 <+perlDreamer> I'll look into it
23:39 < BartJol> have it fixed a couple of times, but it feels senseless
23:40 < BartJol> should i make a bug report?
23:40 <+perlDreamer> no
23:40 < BartJol> ok
23:40 < BartJol> it does come back between versions it seems
23:41 < BartJol> well nuba, now it is a luxury, but we worked hard on it
23:41 < BartJol> wish I could help you on spanish
23:42 < BartJol> but only transalting the words beer and beach doesn't help you very much
23:42 <+perlDreamer> fixed in HEAD
23:43 <+perlDreamer> fixed in 7.4 branch
23:44 <+perlDreamer> fixed in the Commerce branch
23:44 <+perlDreamer> that should get them all
23:44 < nuba> BartJol: im not working on spanish, just Brazilian Portuguese
23:44 < nuba> i think perlDreamer was spending time on Spanish tho
23:44 <+perlDreamer> we could really use a native spanish speaker to help with the Spanish translation
23:44 < BartJol> mm, I'm even worse at that
23:45 <+perlDreamer> who does the German translation?
23:45 < BartJol> I think some guys who aren't really active anymore
23:45 < BartJol> I forgot the name
23:46 <+perlDreamer> BartJol: there are 3 missing from the WebGUI namespace
23:46 < nuba> perlDreamer: I can try to get some relatives from Paraguay (spanish speaking country in SA) to check the translation
23:46 <+perlDreamer> Me and Peter will keep plugging away at it
23:46 <+perlDreamer> We're concentrating on the WebGUI namespace right now
23:46 -!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@casr-dev.fwsm2ppuser.ou.edu] has joined #webgui
23:46 < nuba> but they wont know much about webgui or websites in general
23:48 < BartJol> it's guiuser : http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/translate_webgui_org
23:49 -!- TheSeparator [n=seppie@ip565f19be.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
23:49 < BartJol> let's take care of that
23:50 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5515 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_SQLForm.pm: removing empty i18n entry
23:51 <+perlDreamer> I don't see any extra pipes in here... (Asset_RichEdit)
23:52 <+perlDreamer> there it is
23:52 <+perlDreamer> elements subtext
23:52 < BartJol> then I don't remember correctly
23:52 <+perlDreamer> but it's escaped, so it should be fine
23:52 <+perlDreamer> what is HTML encoding for pipe?
23:52 < BartJol> I'll look it up
23:53 <+perlDreamer> MrHairgrease, german for help == Hilfe ?
23:54 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@3.sub-75-205-19.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:54 < BartJol> &#124; or &#166;
23:55 <+perlDreamer> It works for me
23:55 <+perlDreamer> even with the pipe in there
23:56 <+perlDreamer> I translated Help, saved and committed
23:57 <+MrHairgrease> pd: it is
23:57 < BartJol> well, mine went wrong
23:57 < BartJol> 0 % asset rich edit
23:57 <+perlDreamer> Zehr gutt.  Vielen danke, mein freund
23:58 < BartJol> is it possible that the committed version from this afternoon is put back?
23:58 <+perlDreamer> maybe
23:58 < BartJol> for you morning
23:58 <+perlDreamer> let me check out the SVN copy directly and see what's in there
23:58 <+perlDreamer> Do you know how to do that, BartJol?
23:58 < BartJol> i will not touch anything
23:58 < BartJol> well, i saw 1 typo
23:59 < BartJol> corrected it, saved it
23:59 < BartJol> and everything is gone
23:59 < BartJol> but a checked a fes
23:59 < BartJol> few
23:59 <+perlDreamer> hm
23:59 <+perlDreamer> looks good in SVN
23:59 <+perlDreamer> https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/view/translations/Dutch/Dutch/Asset_RichEdit.pm
--- Day changed Thu Feb 21 2008
00:00 < BartJol> yes, I comiited it this morning, is it that version, or the current?
00:01 <+perlDreamer> that's the latest SVN version
00:01 < BartJol> ah
00:01 <+perlDreamer> according to this, nothing has been committed in 6 days
00:01 < nuba> i wish someone from pb would check if the translation server's setup isnt creating syncing problems
00:01 <+perlDreamer> and I did the last commit
00:01 <+perlDreamer> from the command line
00:01 < BartJol> strange
00:02 < BartJol> I commited it today, I swear
00:02 <+perlDreamer> I believe you, but it didn't go the SVN server
00:02 < nuba> BartJol: the i18n.webgui.org isnt kept in sync with SVN
00:02 < BartJol> ah\
00:02 < nuba> i18n only gets updated when a new release is out
00:02 <+perlDreamer> nuba, maybe y'all are talking about different things
00:02 <+perlDreamer> the i18n English reference is only updated on releases
00:02 <+perlDreamer> but your translations should be committed when you hit the commit button
00:04 < nuba> oh yeah, i got confused for a while, i remember now what the problem would be
00:04 < BartJol> but the last 6 days I didn't do very much, so if it can be put back (not a real hurry ) it would be fine
00:04 <+perlDreamer> https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/view/tools/translationserver.cgi
00:04 <+perlDreamer> there's the source code
00:04 <+perlDreamer> see www_commitTranslation
00:04 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5515 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_SQLForm.pm: removing empty i18n entry
00:04 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5516 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_SQLForm.pm: backporting i18n fix
00:04 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5517 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_SQLForm.pm: sideporting i18n fix
00:05 < nuba> problem would be in case of conflict between commits coming from the i18n server Vs. changes commited directly to the SVN repo
00:05 <+perlDreamer> yes
00:05  * perlDreamer starts to have that old familiar "I've broken something" feeling again
00:05 < nuba> since theres no web interface to handle the merge or whatever
00:05 <+perlDreamer> let's see if we can summon some help
00:05 <+perlDreamer> Haarg: Are you listening perhaps?
00:05 <@Haarg> yeah?
00:06 <+perlDreamer> Do you have access to the translation server SVN checkout?
00:06 <@Haarg> i should, but i haven't looked at how it the translation server at all
00:06 <@Haarg> how it works that is
00:06 <+perlDreamer> that's okay
00:06 <+perlDreamer> last week, I did a huge manual purge of the i18n system, removing old entries programmatically
00:07 <+perlDreamer> I think the SVN server checkout is conflicted
00:07 <+perlDreamer> and that's blocking all new commits 
00:07 <+perlDreamer> could you please do a svn status on it?
00:07 <+perlDreamer> to check?
00:07 <@Haarg> let me finish what i'm doing quick and i'll take a look
00:08 <+perlDreamer> thanks, man
00:08 <+perlDreamer> I owe you a TeddyWedger
00:08 < BartJol> I would appreciate that too
00:08 <+perlDreamer> You can buy his drink :)
00:09 < BartJol> as long as he drinks along with me, thats fine with me
00:11 < BartJol> I have downloaded the tar from this afternoon, if that is helpfull
00:11 <+perlDreamer> yeah, untar it and check the see if you can find some file with =====
00:11 <+perlDreamer> in it
00:12 < BartJol> ok
00:14 < nuba> translationserver.cgi <- theres nothing blocking someone from creating a new 'English' translation there
00:14 -!- khenn [n=khenn@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []
00:15 <+perlDreamer> Even if they did, the English reference translation comes from a different area
00:15 <+perlDreamer> but submit a bug with a patch
00:15 <+perlDreamer> bummer
00:16 <+perlDreamer> someone deleted the Garbled Crap translation
00:16 < BartJol> Binary file ./Dutch-7-5-2.tar.gz matches
00:16 < BartJol> that's on ==
00:16 <+perlDreamer> do this:
00:16 <+perlDreamer> tar zxf Dutch-7-5-2.tar.gz
00:16 <+perlDreamer> cd Dutch/Dutch
00:17 <+perlDreamer> grep -l '======' *.pm
00:18 < BartJol> is that a pipe or an l?
00:18 < BartJol> both give nothing anyway
00:18 <+perlDreamer> it is lower case L
00:18 <+perlDreamer> hm
00:19 <+perlDreamer> we'll have to let Haarg clue us in then
00:19 <@Haarg> i'm not seeing any conflicts in the checkout
00:19 <+perlDreamer> Something's not letting commits work
00:19 <+perlDreamer> can you try a commit of...
00:20 <+perlDreamer> German/German/Asset_RichEdit.pm
00:22 < BartJol> me or Haarg
00:23 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, but maybe we should just append new info to the bug and wait 'til he has more time to look at in depth
00:24 < BartJol> well we'vegot the almost complete tar (except the 3 webgui namespace parts)
00:24 < BartJol> so I'm not in a hurry
00:25 <@Haarg> manual commit seems to have worked
00:26 <+perlDreamer> it must be a bug in the app then
00:27 <+perlDreamer> thanks, Haarg.  We'll either append to the current bug or start a new one
00:27 < BartJol> can it be tjhat the app sees some of the translation as part of the coding?
00:28 < BartJol> shall I put the messages that I tried to edit in the bug report?
00:28 <+perlDreamer> yes
00:28 < BartJol> ok
00:30 <@Haarg> it's an ssl problem
00:30 <@Haarg> the environment apache is running under isn't finding the correct certs or something
00:32 < BartJol> but why does it only go awry in the richedit asset?... seems strange to me\
00:32 < BartJol> but what do I know about this
00:32 <@Haarg> you are able to commit other things?
00:33 < BartJol> hadn't had any problems with that, as far as I know
00:33 < BartJol> and I do remember some problems with this asset on our old i18n server
00:34 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, I don't think anythings' been committed for a long time
00:34 <+perlDreamer> https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/log/translations/
00:34 <@Haarg> yeah, that's what it looks like
00:36 <+perlDreamer> It would be good if it told you whether or not the commit was successful
00:36 <+perlDreamer> right now it's blind
00:41 <@preaction> what if the translation server itself doesn't have the right credentials?
00:41 < BartJol> but now I see 2 bugs
00:42 < BartJol> 1 committing to svn is broken
00:42 < BartJol> 2 asset rcih edit empties itself after savinf
00:42 < BartJol> I think they're not the same
00:49 <+perlDreamer> one problem at a time
00:49 < BartJol> I know, just analysing
00:50 < BartJol> but I think I should go to bed shortly
00:51 < BartJol> if you need the dutch tar for anaythin: it's here http://www.webgui.nl/uploads/3B/OD/3BODhxWYg5z7MgOQ1g_jqA/Dutch-7-5-2.tar.gz
00:51 <+perlDreamer> thanks, man.  Go crash out now
00:51 < BartJol> thanks
00:52 < BartJol> good day to you
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00:56 <@Haarg> fixed the ssl issue
00:56 <+perlDreamer> Let me try a web based commit
00:57 <+perlDreamer> yup, it works!
00:57 <+perlDreamer> Thanks, Haarg
00:57 <+perlDreamer> This also may close out a bug from guiuser
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01:11 <@apeiron> (silent failures)--
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01:42 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5518 /translations/German/German/ (WebGUI.pm Macro_SpectreCheck.pm Asset_RichEdit.pm Friends.pm): update_from_translation_server
01:42 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5519 /translations/RedNeck/RedNeck/ (Asset.pm AdSpace.pm WebGUI.pm Macro_SpectreCheck.pm): update_from_translation_server
01:42 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5520 /translations/Spanish/ (10 files in 2 dirs): update_from_translation_server
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02:40 <+perlDreamer> it's been a good day rizen
02:40 <+perlDreamer> we fixed the translation server
02:41 <+perlDreamer> it hadn't been committing for months
02:41 <@rizen> who's we?
02:41 <+perlDreamer> me, BartJol and Haarg
02:41 <@rizen> cool
02:41 <+perlDreamer> knowmad is going to write tests for Workflow::Instance to expose the JSON bug
02:42 <+perlDreamer> koen is going to take a bath with his wife
02:42 <+perlDreamer> not much commerce work today, lots of reading and thinking
02:42 <@rizen> i got a bunch of accounting and filing done...not too glamorous there i'm afraid
02:42 <+perlDreamer> but you gotta do it
02:43 <@rizen> did the new spec make more sense?
02:43 <+perlDreamer> oh yeah
02:43 <@rizen> i'm really sorry about that
02:43 <+perlDreamer> It's okay man
02:43 <@rizen> i don't know where my head was at
02:43 <+perlDreamer> sometimes we goof up specs
02:43 <+perlDreamer> sometimes we break the translation server
02:44 <+perlDreamer> by forgetting my :/
02:44 <+perlDreamer> in any case, I have a prototype design worked out in my head
02:44 <+perlDreamer> so it's time to write tests and code
02:45 <+perlDreamer> but first, I have to help a scared 8-year old learn how to swim
02:45 <@rizen> ooh
02:45 <@rizen> i've done that before
02:45 <@rizen> it's fun and also very wet
02:45 <+perlDreamer> swim? or teach ?
02:45 <@rizen> taught my neices how to swim
02:46 <+perlDreamer> he knows how to swim, but he's scared of when he can't touch
02:46 <+perlDreamer> it must be genetic :)
02:46 <+perlDreamer> any case, I'll let you know how it goes
02:46 <+perlDreamer> catch you later
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04:43 <@rizen> man, yui just keeps getting cooler and cooler
04:44 < nuba> why, big badass feature *freeze*?
04:44 <@rizen> pretty soon i might have to write YuiDesktop to show SD why ZKDesktop sucks
04:44 <@rizen> huh?
04:45 <@rizen> they put out a new release today
04:45 <@rizen> 2.5
04:45 < nuba> >cooler and cooler
04:45 < nuba> i know
04:45 <@rizen> ah
04:45 <@rizen> sorry, too tired to get a joke
04:45 < nuba> can imagine that
04:49 < nuba> you said earlier, "accounting day"
04:50 < nuba> i once had to hack on a ISP billing app, thats one of the most traumatic experiences I ever had. It exposed me a bit to accounting, enough to make me want as much distance from it as possible.
04:53 <@rizen> hehe
04:53 <@rizen> accounting wouldn't be so bad if it were real math
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04:54 <@rizen> but unfortunately simple arithmetic doesn't apply once you start dealing with concepts like depreciation and tax shelters 
05:02 < knowma1> oh man, you're making my head hurt just talking about it.
05:02 < knowma1> see ya'll tomorrow
05:02 <@rizen> sorry
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05:04 < nuba> heh, you want headache? I didnt even start talking about the hairy and hosed custom dialup billing app that I had to make work with the ISP billing app..
05:05 < nuba> oh, hes gone.
05:05 < nuba> that was smart ;)
05:08 < nuba> anyone watching the eclipse ?
05:17 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5521 /translations/RedNeck/RedNeck/Asset_Collaboration.pm: update_from_translation_server
05:20 <@rizen> not much of an astronomy junkie, and it's too bright downtown for me to appreciate just how dark it is without the moon.
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05:32 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5522 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Asset/Sku.pm designdocs/sku.pod t/Asset/Sku.t): Made a little progress on the sku tests and base class.
05:36 <@apeiron> nuba, Unfortunately far too much light pollution in my area as well.
05:48 < nuba> just watched it for a while, it was nice 
05:49 < nuba> now off to bed, 'night guys
05:50 <@apeiron> Night.
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06:30 <+perlDreamer> hola, preaction
06:31 <@preaction> holla!
06:31 <@preaction> i hate computers!
06:31 <@preaction> they will all be destroyed by my hands
06:32 <+perlDreamer> BSD problems, still?
06:32 <@preaction> reduced into their constituent atoms and then fed to third-world children as they are trained to be mentats
06:32 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5523 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Shop/ShipDriver.pm: Stubbing for ShipDriver.pm
06:32 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5524 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Sku.pm: took Sku a bit further
06:32 <@preaction> no. bought a new mac mini, tried to set my display resolution to something better suited to the HDTV i have, and BAM. no warning, no confirmation, no way to go back, i can't see anything
06:32 <+perlDreamer> "Even my name is a killing word"
06:33 <@preaction> so now. 3 hours later, i have VNC running on the mac mini and using my lappy to administrate it
06:33 <+perlDreamer> go rizen go!
06:33 <@rizen> preaction you're so ridiculous
06:33 <@preaction> wtf ridiculous? i'm downright pissed off
06:33 <@rizen> i can't believe you didn't have all that stuff set up on your mac mini before you started dicking with it
06:34 <@rizen> what kind of administrator are you?
06:34 <@rizen> perlDreamer, i just made up for the fact that i had an accounting day
06:34 <@rizen> Sku.pm is now almost completely written
06:34 <@rizen> as are it's tests
06:35 <+perlDreamer> very cool
06:35 <@rizen> now i feel like i actually got something done for once
06:35 <@rizen> but my brain hurts, so i think i'm calling it early tonight
06:35 <@rizen> sorry preaction, didn't mean to piss you off
06:36 <+perlDreamer> any of you in the channel who are lurking
06:36 <@preaction> not you, this is the second computer and we're going on 30 hours trying to get this working
06:36 <+perlDreamer> We dearly need people to help with translating WebGUI into other languages
06:36 <+perlDreamer> we have a nice, easy CGI based translation system
06:36 <+perlDreamer> i18n.webgui.org
06:36 <@preaction> i've now spent almost 1200, and i'm now thinking that it's the durned TV that's the problem
06:36 <@preaction> which will set me back $800
06:37 <@rizen> sorry to hear that
06:37 <@rizen> you've been to my house, clearly the mac mini can switch to HD sized resolutions
06:37 <@preaction> exactly
06:38 <@rizen> then again i think my tv cost $4k
06:38 <@rizen> so i'd be really pissed if shit didn't work with it
06:38 <@preaction> windows has a 1280x720 resolution that works, too. but the TV only reports itself capable of 640x480 - 1024x768 when using DVI
06:38 <@preaction> lesson one: Never buy iLO tvs.
06:38 <+perlDreamer> iLO?
06:38 <@preaction> exactly
06:38 <@preaction> they don't have a website, nobody online seems to know what they are
06:39 <+perlDreamer> is that a brand?
06:39 <@rizen> perlDreamer, nice pitch...we need to get more people on that
06:39 <@preaction> yes
06:39 <@preaction> if you could call it that
06:39 <+perlDreamer> You see, I have an advantage here
06:39 <@rizen> ok guys, have a good nite
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06:39 <+perlDreamer> If it doesn't have maxim chips in it, I don't buy it
06:39 <+perlDreamer> that way I know exactly what sucks and what doesn't
06:40 <@preaction> maxim?
06:40 <@preaction> hmm
06:40 <+perlDreamer> today I ran for 18 minutes, rode exercise bike for 20 minutes, and taught swimming for 30 minutes
06:40 <+perlDreamer> Yeah, I work for maxim.
06:40 <+perlDreamer> Want to see the specs for one of my chips?
06:40 <@preaction> would you have some idea of brands? polaroid? sony?
06:41 <+perlDreamer> we sell lots to sony
06:41 <+perlDreamer> http://datasheets.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/DS2703.pdf
06:42 <+perlDreamer> That's a parasite powered hardware SHA-1
06:42 <+perlDreamer> and one of the only actual implementation of a WOM
06:42 <@preaction> write-only memory?
06:43 <+perlDreamer> yeah
06:43 <+perlDreamer> there are areas that the user can only write to, but never read from
06:44 <+perlDreamer> It used to be one of the biggest jokes
06:44 <+perlDreamer> RAMs, ROMs, and a WOM
06:45 <+perlDreamer> do Asset properties really have to be an Ix::Hash?
06:45 <@preaction> they don't have to be, but then the order displayed in the form gets messed up
06:46 <+perlDreamer> good point
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07:31 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5525 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (3 files in 3 dirs): definition method for ShipDriver, with tests
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07:44 <@apeiron> Why would you want ... doh.
07:44 <@apeiron> Damn people and their whole "going to sleep" thing.
07:47 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5526 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Shop/ShipDriver.pm: add pod
08:01 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: How To Give WebGUI Your Own Style - Edited on 2/20/2008 11:50 pm by tavis.parker  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/how-to-give-webgui-your-own-style
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09:59 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5527 /translations/Spanish/Spanish/Icon.pm: update_from_translation_server
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16:05 < SDuensin> Morning all.
16:07 < knowmad> G'day
16:07 <+MrHairgrease> hi
16:08 < knowmad> hey MHG; you feeling any better yet?
16:08 <+MrHairgrease> i was
16:08 < SDuensin> Man, everyone is sick.
16:08 <+MrHairgrease> but now i'm html-ing
16:09 <+MrHairgrease> so it's going downhill again...
16:09 < knowmad> yes, i understand
16:09 < knowmad> i have people for that these days :)
16:09 <+MrHairgrease> not sick, just filled to the brim with slimy crap
16:09 <+MrHairgrease> we have too
16:10 <+MrHairgrease> but those people apparently have the right to go on hollidays
16:10 <+MrHairgrease> it isn't fair
16:10 < knowmad> not when you have to stay at work with slimy crap as well
16:11 < knowmad> you need to move to the States; the little bit of holiday we have is often unused in our rush to "just do it"
16:11 < knowmad> that way your people wouldn't leave you
16:13 <+MrHairgrease> thanks for the suggestion, but I'm staying in the Netehrlands
16:14 <+MrHairgrease> I'll cope with the occasional html crap
16:14 < knowmad> yeah, you guys know how to take a vacation
16:14 <+MrHairgrease> indeed
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17:29 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: Getting Started in the WebGUI Community - Edited on 2/21/2008 9:18 am by tavis.parker  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/getting-started-in-the-webgui-community
17:42 <@preaction> would it be good to have a ^ParentAsset(); macro that got properties from the current asset's parent? 
17:42 <@rizen> for what purpose?
17:43 <@rizen> not saying no, just would like to know the intended use
17:43 <@preaction> steve just messaged me about a client who wanted a template to have a "Go Back" link that pointed to the parent's URL
17:43 <@preaction> so ^ParentAsset(url);
17:44 <@rizen> that wouldn't work
17:44 <@rizen> a macro has no context
17:45 <@rizen> so it doesn't know what the current asset is let alone the parent
17:45 <@preaction> it would have to be $session->asset->parent->get('url'); # which could lead itself to certain problems, admittedly
17:45 <@rizen> it could try to pull $session->asset but that's not guaranteed to exist
17:45 <@preaction> but no worse than ^PageUrl(); or ^PageTitle;
17:46 < BartJol> well, you can defaultly give the <tmpl_var url> as an obligated variable
17:46 < BartJol> that's what I did
17:46 < BartJol> it is a lousy solution, I know
17:46 <@rizen> the page macros are there for historical consideration
17:47 <@preaction> eh. steve said he's going to use a navigation for it, so he's got another solution
17:47 <@preaction> was just thinking it was a bit of overkill
17:47 <+MrHairgrease> a nav would suffer from the same 'problem'
17:54 < BartJol> norton anti virus has all kinds of problems
18:07 <@rizen> i guess you're right
18:07 <@rizen> preaction, if you want to make the macro, you're welcome to it
18:07 <@rizen> and you can put it in the core
18:08 <@preaction> i'll add the appropriate docs in the wiki about its limitations
18:08 <@preaction> after i figure out how to tweak sendmail to peel through 30,000 emails a bit faster than 2 and a half days
18:12 <@rizen> preaction, the problem isn't really sendmail
18:12 <@rizen> it's the servers you're sending to
18:12 <@preaction> yeah, that's why i'm looking at timeouts
18:12 <@rizen> the only way to overcome it is to have sendmail running lots of additional processes so it can be simultaneously sending 100 or more emails
18:13 <@rizen> don't do timeouts
18:13 <@rizen> you'll get blacklisted
18:13 <@rizen> that's one of the new tests that mail servers are using for spam bots
18:13 <@preaction> right, spamd does that
18:13 <@rizen> lots of spam bots will give up if the mail server doesn't respond quickly
18:13 <@rizen> so mail servers make them wait for 60 seconds or more
18:13 <@preaction> which i should know, as i just got spamd running on my network. spam is down to 5% of what it used to be
18:14 <@rizen> ok then
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18:14 <@preaction> i've got 25 sendmails running, loads at 2.5 so i don't want to up that number any more
18:14 <@rizen> look into seeing if sendmail can be configured to send more messages simulataneously
18:14 <@rizen> actually do it
18:14 <@rizen> put it up to about 50
18:15 <@preaction> k
18:15 <@rizen> or a load of 5
18:15 <@rizen> if it shows a good bump then we can have them invest in a new server just for sending out emails
18:15 <@rizen> cuz then we can have the load up to whatever we want without affecting anything
18:16 <@preaction> if we suggest that, they've got "listserv" boxes. dunno if we could configure them to just be sendmail relays. the boxes / service is apparently free for them
18:17 <@rizen> then why the hell are we wasting time on this?
18:17 <@preaction> if they could just be sendmail relays, that would be ideal. they'd get the configurability of their WebGUI apps, with the speed of a seperate box
18:17 <@preaction> the listserv isn't as configurable as our application for the mailing out
18:18 <@rizen> well have frank ask them if they can be set up as sendmail relays
18:18 <@preaction> sounds good
18:18 <@rizen> i assume we don't have direct access to these?
18:19 <@preaction> don't know. and frank's out running errands right now, so we'll know later
18:20 <@preaction> going a LOT faster now, and loads holding at 3.5 with 30/50 sendmail processes being used
18:26 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: Getting Started in the WebGUI Community - Edited on 2/21/2008 10:15 am by colink  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/getting-started-in-the-webgui-community
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18:29 <@preaction> perlbot math 2000 / 3600
18:29 < perlbot> 0.555555555555556
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19:02 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5528 /wrebuild/wre/ (docs/changelog.txt lib/WRE/Site.pm sbin/addsite.pl): 
19:02 < CIA-40> WebGUI: - Added an option when creating sites to specify a custom database name.
19:02 < CIA-40> WebGUI:  Thanks to Wes Morgan for the patch.
19:02 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5529 /wrebuild/wre/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Changed modproxy configs to pass file privilege checks through to WebGUI.
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19:43 <@preaction> Haarg, are you doing the release yet? i've got a small change i want to get in: Steve finished the icons for the Gallery
19:43 <@Haarg> it'll be a bit, i've been upgrading a server
19:44 <@preaction> k. i'll let you know when i'm done, should be no more than 20 minutes
19:49 <@apeiron> rizen, Looks like someone else had your Halloween idea: *** SatanClaus n=SatanCla@unaffiliated/satanclaus has joined #perl
19:49 < CIA-40> WebGUI: meatbop * r5530 /WebGUI/www/extras/assets/ (6 files in 2 dirs): New Icons for Photo Gallery
19:49 <@rizen> it's not an original idea...it's from a movie called The Last Boyscout
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20:13 <@preaction> Pro Tip: Mplayer is a good media player, but VLC is better: it works with the apple remote
20:15 <@preaction> Haarg, sorry to interrupt you again, but i've hit a snag and will take a bit longer, but this needs to be fixed in 7.5.3 (people can't add Albums to the Gallery)
20:16 <@Haarg> no problem, just let me know when you are finished
20:17 <@rizen> wahfrekinhoo
20:17 <@rizen> figured out why apache stopped building
20:18 <@rizen> now...does anybody here know if you can do a regex match in a bash script?
20:18 <@rizen> i have this
20:18 <@rizen> if [ `uname -r` == "9.1.0" | `uname -r` == "9.2.0" ]; then
20:18 <@rizen> i want to do this
20:19 <@rizen> if [ `uname -r` =~ "^9." ]; then
20:19 <@preaction> use perl to do it? otherwise you might have to use sed
20:19 <@preaction> like if [ `perl whatever` == "9" ]
20:19 <@preaction> cut
20:19 <@preaction> use cut instead
20:19 <@rizen> cut?
20:19 <@preaction> cut -c 1
20:19 <@rizen> is cut available on all *nix systems?
20:19 <@preaction> `uname -r | cut -c 1` may work
20:20 <@rizen> neaver heard of it before today
20:20 <@preaction> yes, it's one of those old-old utils
20:20 <@preaction> 4.2BSD probably
20:20 <@rizen> suit
20:20 <@rizen> sweet
20:20 <@rizen> that rocks
20:20 <@preaction> actually System III UNIX
20:20 <@preaction> very nearly pre-historic ;-)
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20:49 < CIA-40> WebGUI: doug * r5531 /WebGUI/ (8 files in 5 dirs): 
20:49 < CIA-40> WebGUI: More Gallery i18n
20:49 < CIA-40> WebGUI: fix: Add an Album link now appears on Gallery List Albums view
20:50 <@preaction> Haarg, i'm finished, those things are fixed now
20:50 <@Haarg> ok, thanks
20:51 <@Haarg> hmm
20:51 <@Haarg> am i wrong or does this:
20:52 <@Haarg>     RewriteRule ^/(.*) http://%{HTTP_HOST}:8081/$1 [P]
20:52 <@Haarg> mean you could proxy any thing on port 8081
20:52 <@Haarg> since host is sent by the browser
20:52 <@preaction> what do you mean by anything?
20:53 <@preaction> apache is bound to 8081, so only apache will use it
20:53 <@preaction> but if apache thought the HTTP_HOST actually resided on a completely different IP, fun things could happen
20:53 <@Haarg> i mean you can send slashdot.org as the host, and it would proxy to slashdot.org:8081
20:53 <@preaction> you mean an open proxy
20:54 <@preaction> hmm
20:54 <@Haarg> vhosts default to the first one if there isn't a matching servername/alias
20:55 <@Haarg> you wouldn't be able to proxy arbitrary websites because of the port, but it still seems wrong
20:56 <@preaction> we don't even need the whole rewriterule part. it might be better do to ProxyPass / 127.0.0.1; and ProxyPreserveHost On
20:56 <@preaction> the proxypass sends any request for / to 127.0.0.1:8081 (forgot the port)
20:57 <@preaction> and the preservehost makes apache forward the Host: header directly
20:59 <@preaction> all RewriteRule ... [P] does is make ProxyPass configurable with mod_rewrite. we don't need that kind of flexibility since any request that makes it to ProxyPass has already failed all the other checks
20:59 < lisette> hi
21:00 <@rizen> ProxyPass doesn't work with the rewrite rules
21:00 <@rizen> the rewrite rules all take precidence
21:00 < lisette> how to do a macro that do a query in a database different of webgui
21:00 < lisette> ?
21:01 <@rizen> like this lisette
21:01 <@preaction> so once it goes through a single rewriterule, proxypass won't get called? that's lame
21:01 <@rizen> my $db = WebGUI::SQL->connect("DBI:mysql:someotherdb", $user, $pass);
21:01 < lisette> thanks
21:02 <@rizen> preaction: you're welcome to try it, but i dinked around with it for quite a while and couldn't make it work
21:02 <@Haarg> i would think if it didn't get caught by any rewrite rules it would fall through to alias/redirect/proxypass
21:02 <@rizen> but perhaps i was just a moron
21:03 <@rizen> regardless though
21:03 <@rizen> that doesn't solve the problem
21:03 <@rizen> cuz then it will pass on 127.0.0.1 and not pass the host through
21:03 <@rizen> so modperl won't know what site to serve up
21:03 <@preaction> no, that's what ProxyPreserveHost On does
21:04 <@rizen> oh
21:04 <@rizen> sorry, wasn't familiar with that
21:04 <@preaction> so 127.0.0.1 would get a Host: slashdot.org and go "yeah, no."
21:04 < CIA-40> WebGUI: doug * r5531 /WebGUI/ (8 files in 5 dirs): 
21:04 < CIA-40> WebGUI: More Gallery i18n
21:04 < CIA-40> WebGUI: fix: Add an Album link now appears on Gallery List Albums view
21:04 < CIA-40> WebGUI: doug * r5532 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/ (packages-7.5.3/gallery-templates.wgpkg packages-7.5.3): added the new templates to fix the Add an Album button not showing up
21:04 <@Haarg> well, not really
21:05 <@Haarg> it would just default to the first <VirtualHost>
21:05 <@rizen> so the net result would be exactly the same
21:05 <@Haarg> but that's not a problem.  better than proxying random websites.
21:05 <@rizen> oh nevermind
21:05 <@rizen> cuz it would still be pointing to 127.0.0.1
21:06 <@Haarg> yeah
21:39 < lisette> and how to do a query to database diferent of webgui?
21:41 < lisette> same with y @identifier = $session->db->buildArray($sql);	?
21:43 <@rizen> no you created a database object in the previous example i gave you
21:43 <@rizen> so you use that
21:43 <@rizen> my @data = $db->quickArray($sql);
21:43 <@rizen> like that
21:43 < lisette> ok
21:43 < lisette> thanks
21:43 <@rizen> np
21:44 <@rizen> don't forget to $db->disconnect; at the end of your macro.
21:47 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5533 /translations/French/French/ (61 files): update_from_translation_server
21:53 < lisette> if the query is a insert statement, then execute?
21:53 < lisette> then is execute?
21:53 <@rizen> you could do $db->prepare($sql); $db->execute(\@params);
21:54 < lisette> thanks
21:54 <@rizen> or you can just do $db->write($sql); as well
21:54 <@rizen> $db->write($sql, \@params);
21:54 <@rizen> lisette, what is your native language?
22:01 < lisette> spanisj
22:01 < lisette> h
22:03 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5534 /translations/French/French/ (Macro_LoginToggle.pm Macro_a_account.pm Macro_r_printable.pm): update_from_translation_server
22:04 <@rizen> Have you thought about helping translate WebGUI into Spanish? We could really use your help.
22:17 <@rizen> can anybody tell me why this isn't working
22:17 <@rizen> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m39b1b69f
22:17 <@rizen> i'm trying to regex across multiple lines
22:19 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5535 /translations/French/French/ (8 files): update_from_translation_server
22:19 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5536 /translations/French/French/Macro_GroupText.pm: update_from_translation_server
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22:23 <@preaction> rizen, is it matching? perhaps instead you could put the replace string into a variable so it's not so messy inside the regex. i think /x makes the engine ignore all whitespace (so you have to use \s, not just " ")
22:31 <@rizen> i got the answer on the perl forums
22:32 <@rizen>  s{RewriteRule\s+\^/uploads/\s+-\s+\[L\]}
22:32 <@rizen> needed to replace the spaces with \s+
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22:34 < lisette> rizen, no works, there a error with dbi:driver
22:34 < lisette> dbi: driver
22:37 <@rizen> oh sorry, there was supposed to be a $session in there
22:37 < lisette> yes
22:37 <@rizen> my $db = WebGUI::SQL->connect($session, "DBI:mysql:somedb", $user, $pass);
22:38 <@rizen> lisette: Have you thought about helping translate WebGUI into Spanish? We could really use your help.
22:39 <@rizen> http://translate.webgui.org
22:40 < lisette> yes
22:41 < lisette> i know is i18.webgui.org
22:41 < lisette> is the same?
22:46 < lisette> Can't connect to data source '' because I can't work out what driver to use (it doesn't seem to contain a 'dbi:driver:' prefix and the DBI_DRIVER env var is not set) at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm line 322
22:46 < lisette> Can't connect to data source '' because I can't work out what driver to use (it doesn't seem to contain a 'dbi:driver:' prefix and the DBI_DRIVER env var is not set) at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm line 322
22:47 <@rizen> yup they are the same site
22:47 <@rizen> could you paste the line of code you are using to connect to the database?
22:47 <@rizen> that way i can diagnose why you are having a problem
22:50 < lisette> my $db = WebGUI::SQL->connect($session, "DBI:mysql:www_example_data");
22:50 < lisette> the user is root and don't have a password
22:52 <@rizen> you need to put the username in there
22:52 <@rizen> my $db = WebGUI::SQL->connect($session, "DBI:mysql:www_example_data", "root");
22:52 <@rizen> but i would never recommend using a user without a password
22:52 <@rizen> you're just waiting to get hacked
22:54 < lisette> ok
22:54 < lisette> this works, but now the error is Can't locate object method "execute" via package "WebGUI::SQL"
22:55 <@rizen> could you please put your whole macro code into a pastebin ( http://webgui.pastebin.com/) so i can look it over and tell you where the problem is?
22:56 < lisette> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m5d327922
22:57 <@rizen> ok i kind of screwed you up there a bit too cuz i was in a hurry
22:57 <@rizen> give me a sec
22:58 <@rizen> http://webgui.pastebin.com/d64034ba1
22:58 <@rizen> when you do a prepare it creates a new object
22:58 <@rizen> which i put into $statement
22:59 <@rizen> also execute() accepts an array reference
22:59 < lisette> (\@params)
22:59 <@rizen> yup
22:59 < lisette> then in @params put $id and $date
22:59 <@rizen> that's why i wrapped your params into [ ]
22:59 <@rizen> no you don't need to create an array
22:59 < lisette> ok
23:00 <@rizen> you can create an anonymous array reference just like i did
23:00 <@rizen> if you look at the paste bin
23:01 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5537 /translations/French/French/ (WebGUI.pm AuthWebGUI.pm): update_from_translation_server
23:01 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5538 /tools/translationserver.cgi: prevent creating of crappy translation names
23:02 < lisette> rizen, the looks $db->execute(\[$id,$date]); ?
23:04 <@rizen> no slash
23:04 <@rizen> just copy and paste what i put in the paste bin
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23:05 < lisette> i don't see nothign in http://webgui.pastebin.com/m5d327922
23:06 <@rizen> no this one: http://webgui.pastebin.com/d64034ba1
23:10 < jdan> Hi, does anyone know why spectre from last WebUI and WRE 0.8.1 don't compile? The message is: "to_json" is not exported by the JSON module
23:12 <@rizen> you need to upgrade Config::JSON
23:12 <@rizen> cpan
23:13 <@rizen> force install Config::JSON
23:13 <@rizen> that should fix the problem
23:13 <@rizen> and as far as WRE 0.8.1 you need to upgrade to WRE 0.8.2 to fix that problem
23:13 <@rizen> unfortunately the author of JSON broke the API
23:13 <@rizen> so it created a bit of a mess for us
23:14 <@rizen> WRE 0.8.2 will be out tomorrow
23:14 < lisette> rizen, thank this works perfect!
23:14 <@rizen> lisette: you're welcome
23:17 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5539 /wrebuild/ (wre/var/upgrades/upgrade_0.8.1-0.8.2.pl build.sh): fix some 0.8.2. build problems
23:17 < jdan> rizen, thanks. I will wait until next WRE come. I wasted to much time and fill now little break.
23:18 <@rizen> sorry jdan
23:22 < jdan> Last question. I made some Polish translations directli in modules. Probably WebGUI 7.4.15. Who can parse messages  from it and prepare Polish translations?
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23:23 <@rizen> you can create a tarball of it and post it to the dev forum, and we'll see what we can do with it
23:23 <@rizen> or if you prefer
23:23 <@rizen> you could make patches against svn
23:23 <@rizen> https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/browse/translations/Polish/
23:24 <@rizen> https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/translations/Polish/
23:24 <@rizen> svn co https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/translations/Polish/
23:26 < jdan> First time I make tarball and send. It'll be greate if you import it. And next I can develope ...
23:26 <@rizen> well normally you should just edit right in our translation server
23:26 <@rizen> http://i18n.webgui.org
23:26 <@rizen> everybody works together there
23:26 <@rizen> to create translations
23:27 < jdan> Ok, I  can also past & copy 
23:27 <@rizen> let's see if we can auto import first
23:27 <@rizen> i'd hate to see you do a lot of work
23:28 <@rizen> or did you not make many changes?
23:28 < jdan> In minutes I prepare tarball and send, so you can look ...
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23:36 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5540 /translations/French/French/ (AuthWebGUI.pm Macro_SpectreCheck.pm): update_from_translation_server
23:41 <+perlDreamer> I didn't know JT spoke french
23:41 <@rizen> i speak french and whatever other language that someone might commit via i18n.webgui.org
23:42 <@rizen> =)
23:43 <+perlDreamer> it's nice to see translation messages again
23:56 <@rizen> ok, so i'm building a vmware image for people to use
23:56 <@rizen> should i have x start on it
23:56 <@rizen> or just make it super bare bones?
23:56 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5540 /translations/French/French/ (AuthWebGUI.pm Macro_SpectreCheck.pm): update_from_translation_server
23:57 < jdan> rizen, tarbal was sned to Discuss->WebGUI Dev
23:58 <@rizen> good jdan, i'll take a look when i have a chance
23:58 < jdan> thx
--- Day changed Fri Feb 22 2008
00:00 < knowmad> perlDreamer: will you be around for another hour to 2
00:00 < knowmad> 1-2 hrs
00:01 < knowmad> rizen: make it headless
00:01 < knowmad> what distro are you planning to use?
00:03 <+perlDreamer> knowmad: yes
00:03 <@rizen> centos 5
00:03 < knowmad> cool, i have an Instance.t test script and a Windoze issue with WebGUI::Test that i need to run by you
00:04 <+perlDreamer> okay
00:04 <+perlDreamer> afaik, no one has used WebGUI::Test under windows yet
00:04 < knowmad> yeah, i figured as much; i'm off to the gym and we can chat when i get back
00:05 <+perlDreamer> k
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00:14 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5541 /translations/French/French/AuthWebGUI.pm: update_from_translation_server
00:15 <+perlDreamer> whole lot of translating going on
00:15 <+perlDreamer> french, polish
00:16 < lisette> i can use a sentece if in an article?
00:25 <+perlDreamer> lisette, you can put all kinds of content in an article
00:26 <+perlDreamer> sentences, paragraphs or HTML
00:28 < lisette> i need make an if of the result of a macro, how to do?
00:29 <+perlDreamer> ah, that is a little more difficult
00:29 < lisette> like in a template?
00:29 <+perlDreamer> yes
00:29 <+perlDreamer> you can use javascript to do that
00:29 < lisette> ok, tk
00:29 <+perlDreamer> or, you can use a different templating system, like HTML::Template::Expr or Template::Toolkit
00:29 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5542 /translations/French/French/ (AuthLDAP.pm Macros.pm): update_from_translation_server
00:29 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5543 /translations/French/French/Workflow_Activity.pm: update_from_translation_server
00:30 <+perlDreamer> There may be an article on the wiki about using other templating systems
00:31 < lisette> i search
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00:40 <+perlDreamer> rizen: Am I going overboard with the parameter checking, like what I've done in Tax.pm?
00:41 <@rizen> i haven't looked let me do that before i comment
00:42 <@rizen> oh, that's brilliant
00:43 <@rizen> webgui would be a much better system if we did that throughout
00:46 <+perlDreamer> okay
00:46 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5544 /translations/French/French/AuthWebGUI.pm: update_from_translation_server
00:46 <+perlDreamer> I was looking at ShipDriver->new, and wondering if I should validate the options param that gets passed in
00:49 <@rizen> just to see if it's a hashref, or deeper validation?
00:50 <+perlDreamer> deeper
00:51 <+perlDreamer> if it isn't in the def sub, then croak
00:51 <@rizen> "def sub"?
00:51 <+perlDreamer> definition sub
00:51 <+perlDreamer> crap, fell into one of my own mistakes
00:51 <+perlDreamer> maybe I won't need to go looking for more material for that talk after all
00:52 <@rizen> that is probably a bit extreme
00:53 <+perlDreamer> okay
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01:01 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5545 /translations/French/French/Asset_Navigation.pm: update_from_translation_server
01:01 <@rizen> do you have it set to commit with each save now?
01:02 <@rizen> or are they just committing that frequently
01:02 <+perlDreamer> I think they're committing frequencly
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01:17 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5546 /translations/French/French/ (Asset_Layout.pm Asset_Poll.pm): update_from_translation_server
01:17 < CIA-40> WebGUI: graham * r5547 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (4 files in 4 dirs): prepare for 7.4.26
01:17 < CIA-40> WebGUI: graham * r5548 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fixed: rich text editor image uploads deleted immediately
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01:37 < CIA-40> WebGUI: graham * r5549 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): fixed: Rich editor page and image pickers are broken
01:37 < CIA-40> WebGUI: graham * r5550 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Form/HTMLArea.pm: Fixing image uploads
01:37 < knowmad> perlDreamer: check out http://webgui.pastebin.org/20650
01:37 < CIA-40> WebGUI: graham * r5551 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Form.pm: Form header needs to default to post, multipart/form-data for empty data
01:37 < CIA-40> WebGUI: graham * r5552 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Form/HTMLArea.pm: use proper urls for rich editor image uploads
01:37 <+perlDreamer> k
01:37 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5553 /translations/French/French/Asset_FilePile.pm: update_from_translation_server
01:37 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5554 /translations/French/French/Asset_Template.pm: update_from_translation_server
01:38 <+perlDreamer> what problems are you seeing?
01:39 < knowmad> nothing on my linux dev box
01:39 < knowmad> i'm getting ready to run that on my windows system that is having problems with JSON
01:39 <+perlDreamer> you mentioned that it might be a problem with WebGUI::Test, too?
01:39 < knowmad> i also need to make some edits to WebGUI::Test to support windows as it's not pushing the c:/data/WebGUI/lib directory onto @INC
01:40 <+perlDreamer> what's it pushing instead?
01:40 < knowmad> nada
01:40 < knowmad> so it's not finding the WebGUI libs
01:40 < knowmad> i hacked the test scripts to force it on
01:40 < knowmad> but need to fix the source of the problem
01:40 < knowmad> i'm going up front to my windows box
01:41 < knowmad> i'll log back on here as guest
01:41 <+perlDreamer> ok
01:46 -!- wgGuest48 [n=wgGuest4@adsl-072-149-129-114.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has joined #webgui
01:47 <+perlDreamer> wgGuest48, how about nicking yourself to something easier to type?
01:47 < wgGuest48> arggghh... have i said how much i hate windoze?
01:47 -!- wgGuest48 is now known as knowmadremote
01:47 <+perlDreamer> you're preachnig to the choir
01:47 < knowmadremote> i know
01:47 <@preaction> no, but i sympathize
01:47 <+perlDreamer> okay, 1 bug at a time
01:47 <+perlDreamer> first, WG::Test
01:47 <@rizen> knowmadremote: you could stop using it
01:47 <@rizen> don't say you can't
01:47 <+perlDreamer> which version of wG are we talking about here?
01:47 < knowmadremote> $$$
01:47 <+perlDreamer> 7.5 or 7.4?
01:48 < knowmadremote> 7.4
01:48 <+perlDreamer> near line 68, something always gets assigned to WEBGUI_LIB
01:48 < knowmadremote> plus, i'm paving the way for you guys to say wG *really* does work on this bastard of an OS
01:48 <+perlDreamer> and then it's pushed onto @INC
01:48 < knowmadremote> yep
01:48 < knowmadremote> going to test that
01:49 <@rizen> webgui does really work on winblows
01:49 <@rizen> it just doesn't work very well
01:49 <@rizen> from a marketing perspective i've already got all i need =)
01:51 <+perlDreamer> knowmadremote, if you're really serious about windows support, you should set up a smoke test every night, using preaction's soon to be released WRE smoke tools
01:51 < knowmadremote> i'll see about doing that
01:52 <@rizen> preaction is apparently so awesome that he has lots of side projects i don't know about
01:52 <@preaction> heh. you'll need to translate a shell script into a windows command script, but the rest is Perl. all the command script does is build the right environment
01:52 < knowmadremote> going to dump out those vars in Test.pm now
01:52 < knowmadremote> sounds simple enough
01:52 <+perlDreamer> preaction: can we write in perl instead of bash?
01:52 <+perlDreamer> to keep it OS neutral?
01:52 < knowmadremote> rizen: hopefully it's all making the jobs you give him easier :)
01:52 <@preaction> yeah, if i can only stop push @projects; and start shift @projects;...
01:53 <@preaction> perlDreamer, the WRE's environment script is a shell script, and I call that
01:53 <+perlDreamer> ok
01:53 <@rizen> i would assume so, the stuff i've seen so far is pretty cool
01:53 <@rizen> though there's also a bunch of stuff that's just his personal itch scratching methinks
01:54  * perlDreamer hands preaction a webgui powered back scratcher
01:54 < knowmadremote> here's the trouble with Test - $VAR2 = 'C:C:\\data\\WebGUI\\lib';
01:54 < knowmadremote> it's doubling up on the diskname
01:54 <@rizen> but that's why we love him
01:54 <@rizen> oh and preaction, even if you start shift @projects, you'll never stop push @projects
01:54 <@rizen> just the nature of the beast
01:55 <@preaction> true that
01:55 <+perlDreamer> what's WEBGUI_ROOT?
01:55 < knowmadremote> it's correct - $VAR1 = 'C:\\data\\WebGUI';
01:56 < knowmadremote> need to review that line that appends using splitpath
01:56 < knowmadremote> but i'll have to do that later tonite or tomorrow -- it's time for the CharPM meeting
01:56 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5555 /translations/French/French/Asset_RSSCapable.pm: update_from_translation_server
01:56 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5556 /translations/French/French/Asset_RSSFromParent.pm: update_from_translation_server
01:56 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5557 /translations/French/French/Macro_GroupDelete.pm: update_from_translation_server
01:56 <+perlDreamer> yeah, splitpath must reuturn C:\\
01:56 < knowmadremote> social meeting tonite
01:56 <@rizen> me too
01:56 <+perlDreamer> I'll be around tomorrow, too
01:56 < knowmadremote> see ya'll later
01:56 <+perlDreamer> humph
01:56 < knowmadremote> good
01:57 <+perlDreamer> I have to go home and make dinner
01:57 < knowmadremote> how do i log out of this java irc console?
01:57 <+perlDreamer> slash quit?
01:57 < knowmadremote> tks
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01:57 <+perlDreamer> yup, that worked
01:57 <@rizen> hehe
01:58  * rizen is building WRE 0.8.2
01:58 <+perlDreamer> cool
01:58 <+perlDreamer> I'm glad you found the apache problem
01:59 <@rizen> should be up tonight so i can go back to commerce tomorrow
01:59 <+perlDreamer> I really do think you should merge the driver classes
02:00 <@rizen> but when i brought it up you were clearly confused by it...so that doesn't bode well
02:00 <+perlDreamer> only when it mentioned class methods.  I didn't that included the www methods, too.
02:00 <+perlDreamer> To me, Ship ended up being like an operation
02:00 <+perlDreamer> which is fien
02:00 <+perlDreamer> fnie
02:00 <+perlDreamer> fine
02:00 <@rizen> which is it? fien fnie or fine?
02:00 <@rizen> =)
02:01 <+perlDreamer> long day
02:01 <@rizen> understood
02:01 <@rizen> why do you think that they should be merged?
02:01 <+perlDreamer> it gets rid of the extra create method.
02:02 <+perlDreamer> getShipper and getDrivers could easily belong in ShipDriver
02:02 <@rizen> that sounds more like how it would work, not why it should be done
02:03 <+perlDreamer> okay
02:03 <+perlDreamer> we don't need two create methods that do essentially the same thing
02:03 <+perlDreamer> there's no good reason for getShipper and getDrivers to be in one class or the other
02:03 <+perlDreamer> but that's just restating what I said in a different way
02:04 <@rizen> like i said, the main reason i thought the change was good was from a consistency with the asset api
02:04 <@rizen> however, i also think the asset api is way too big
02:04 <@rizen> and if you read any design patterns book, it will tell you to keep the factory classes separate
02:04 <@rizen> which is the way it is now
02:05 <+perlDreamer> that's the problem, I'm design pattern ignorant
02:05 <+perlDreamer> I think of it like this
02:06 <+perlDreamer> I don't want to type db access in 1 table in lots of files
02:06 <+perlDreamer> because they're harder to maintain
02:06 <@rizen> i'm only 0.004% design pattern literate
02:06 <+perlDreamer> if they're all in 1 place, then I can s/old/new/ and get them all
02:06 <+perlDreamer> if they're in multiple places, one might get forgotten
02:06 <+perlDreamer> but that's what tests are for :)
02:07 <@rizen> also most design books will say that objects should be small
02:07 <@rizen> no more than 10 methods
02:07 <@rizen> if you have more then you have not designed it well
02:07 <@rizen> i obviously have broken that rule
02:07 <@rizen> =)
02:07 <+perlDreamer> :)
02:08 <@rizen> asset alone probably has more than 100 methods
02:08 <+perlDreamer> 164
02:09 <@rizen> see, i'm a horrible object architect
02:09 <+perlDreamer> and you need a shave
02:09 <@rizen> how do you know?
02:09 <+perlDreamer> you still haven't found the camera I left in your house
02:10 <+perlDreamer> So what do you do when you want to kill someone, but not spend the jail time?
02:10 <@rizen> don't get caught
02:10 <@rizen> that's what i've done
02:10 <@rizen> er rather what i would do
02:11 <@rizen> is it me?
02:11 <+perlDreamer> not unless you were in my office yelling at me today
02:11 <@rizen> there are lots of people that want me dead...you could form a coalition
02:11 <+perlDreamer> and then talking to my boss behind my back
02:12 <+perlDreamer> and later, when my boss confronts us both, having to take it all back
02:12 <+perlDreamer> which made it better
02:13 <+perlDreamer> but it wasn't a pleasant morning
02:13 <@rizen> you could have someone else do it
02:13 <@rizen> but it would have to be someone you weren't associated with
02:13 <@rizen> yet someone that would do it for free
02:13 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5558 /translations/French/French/WebGUI.pm: update_from_translation_server
02:13 < CIA-40> WebGUI: graham * r5559 /WebGUI/ (66 files in 66 dirs): preparing for 7.5.3 release
02:13 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5560 /translations/French/French/ (Asset.pm Asset_Event.pm WebGUI.pm): update_from_translation_server
02:17 < stubert> Trying to do a 0.8.1 install and keep having trouble with JSON and Spectra. Installed from Binary and Source. Working on Debian Etch... Anyone know what I'm missing here?
02:18 <@rizen> yes
02:18 <+perlDreamer> WRE 0.8.3
02:18 <@rizen> quit for tonight and wait until tomorrow moring
02:18 <@rizen> WRE 0.8.2 is coming out tonight
02:18 < stubert> thanks!
02:18 <@rizen> The problem is that the person that maintains JSON broke the API horribly
02:18 <@rizen> so the new WRE uses the new API for JSON
02:19 < stubert> I see...
02:19 < stubert> Is there a svn repository for the WRE stuff?
02:19 <@rizen> yes you could grab it if you want
02:19 <@rizen> let me get the url for you
02:20 <@rizen> browsable interface: https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/browse/wrebuild/
02:20 <@rizen> repo: https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/wrebuild/
02:20 < stubert> cool.... I'll probably wait for tomorrows release, but I'll file those for later...
02:22 <@rizen> actually you can get the source version already at this URL http://update.webgui.org/wre/source/
02:22 <@rizen> debian etch is not one of our normal builds...that's contributed by somebody
02:22 <@rizen> so that won't be out tomorrow
02:22 <@rizen> now that i think about it
02:22 < stubert> awsome!
02:23 <@rizen> we do OSX, Red Hat Enterprise Linux 3-4-5, FreeBSD 6.2, Ubuntu 6, and SLES 10.1 
02:23 < stubert> no debian?
02:24 <@rizen> nope, we polled our community a while back to see which ones they wanted, and these were the top 7
02:24 <@rizen> 8 if you include windows
02:24 < stubert> good enough...
02:24 <+perlDreamer> SynQ may build a new Debian Etch
02:24 <+perlDreamer> or. stubert, you could do it
02:25 <+perlDreamer> anyone can submit a WRE binary
02:25 <@rizen> Yeah, SynQ runs webgui.nl, and he maintains the debian etch binary
02:25 < stubert> aw...
02:28 -!- rizen is now known as rizenisaway
02:28 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5561 /translations/French/French/WebGUI.pm: update_from_translation_server
02:28 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5562 /translations/French/French/Asset_Event.pm: update_from_translation_server
02:28 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5563 /translations/French/French/AuthWebGUI.pm: update_from_translation_server
02:28 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5564 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/ShipDriver.pm t/Shop/ShipDriver.t): Valiadate inputs to create.
02:29 < stubert> So just so I have a better grip... does the webgui user need to own the /data tree?
02:30 <+perlDreamer> no
02:30 <+perlDreamer> only /data/domains/mydomain
02:30 <+perlDreamer> well, all of domains
02:30 < stubert> Ok
02:31 <@rizenisaway> that's not entirely true
02:31 <@rizenisaway> it also needs to be able to write to the /data/wre/var folder
02:31 <@rizenisaway> i usually just compile the wre as the webgui user
02:32 <@rizenisaway> anyway...now i'm really away
02:32 <@rizenisaway> see you later pd
02:32 < stubert> thanks guys...
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02:50 <@apeiron> May not be *necessary* for the webgui user to own /data but I've certainly found that it makes things easier when you can manage it.
02:59 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5566 /releases/WebGUI_7.5.3-beta: Release 7.5.3-beta
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03:15 < CIA-40> WebGUI: graham * r5567 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): preparing for 7.5.4 dev
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05:39 <@rizenisaway> i also think it is necessary to kick apeiron in the nutz occasionally
05:40 -!- rizenisaway is now known as rizen
05:40 <@apeiron> wtf, what did I do to you?
05:40 <@rizen> apeiron, did the new resizable stuff make it into tonights webgui release
05:40 <@rizen> you don't have to do anything to me, i just like kicking people in the nutz
05:41 <@apeiron> rizen, Still having IE issues. I figured out what was wrong with my previous approach though, am not sure which route I should go. =\
05:41 <@rizen> the yui way is the way you should go
05:41 <@rizen> long term the more yui is doing for you the less you have to maintain
05:41 <@apeiron> True.
05:42 <@rizen> yui definitely is getting cooler and cooler
05:42 <@apeiron> 2.5 is looking pretty neat. Lots of new stuffs.
05:43 <@apeiron> (i.e., stuff ext has -- preaction pointed that out to me)
05:44 <@apeiron> If you happen to know a JS debugger for IE that I can get my hands on that's better than the free one, I'd really appreciate it right about now.
05:45 <@apeiron> The freebie one from MS doesn't do variable watches or anything like that. Basic breakpoints and that's it.
05:47 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5568 /translations/French/French/Asset.pm: update_from_translation_server
05:49 <@rizen> there's always this option: http://www.getfirebug.com/lite.html
05:49 <@rizen> which i know isn't ideal
05:50 <@apeiron> Yeah, preaction mentioned that too. I'll have to give it a shot.
05:50 <@rizen> there's also this list of ie plugins
05:50 <@rizen> http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2007/06/22/from-microsoft-teched-2007-web-development-tools-for-internet-explorer.aspx
05:50 <@apeiron> I guess I shouldn't be surprised that there's plugins written for IE considering how it works.
05:51 <@apeiron> Hmm. I was always searching for "debug" or "debugging" and "js" or "javascript" earlier, probably why I missed that last link.
05:52 <@preaction> apeiron, do you have a link with the IE7 problems? i'm trying to VM my boot camp partition so i can try to help out
05:52 <@apeiron> It's really weird what's happening because it's saying it can't access an object property -- but *only* when I try to use the thing in WebGUI.
05:52 <@apeiron> preaction, Oh, you mean a WebGUI instance that exhibits the issues?
05:52 <@preaction> minimal test case again?
05:52 <@apeiron> hmmm
05:52 <@apeiron> I think, I was messing with a whole bunch of different things.
05:52  * apeiron looks.
05:56 <@apeiron> sec. I have a WebGUI instance that exhibits the error, I need to make sure the firewall is redirecting to the right box.
05:56 <@apeiron> http://coitusmentis.info/tell_a_friend
05:58 <@apeiron> Fine in Firefox, fine in Safari, blows up in IE.
05:59 <@apeiron> It's a little wonky in Opera -- the cursors aren't changed -- but if you drag a handle as usual it does what's expected.
06:00 <@preaction> you'll never guess what was wrong with the test box
06:00 <@preaction> i left the install CD in the drive, it got rebooted and booted the install cd
06:00 <@preaction> go me!
06:00 <@apeiron> heh
06:01 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5569 /translations/French/French/AdSpace.pm: update_from_translation_server
06:02  * apeiron remembers the early days of IE7 beta where you couldn't uninstall it.
06:02 <@preaction> not so sure you can uninstall IE7 even now
06:02 <@apeiron> You can.
06:02 <@apeiron> I've been dinking back and forth several times a day.
06:02 <@preaction> huh. nice
06:03 <@apeiron> No noticeable issues whatsoever.
06:03 <@preaction> why not get Multiple IEs?
06:03 <@preaction> not sure if the installer is still a trojan horse or not
06:03 <@apeiron> It doesn't let you do that.
06:04 <@apeiron> It overwrites your IE6.
06:08 <@rizen> http://tredosoft.com/Multiple_IE
06:08 <@rizen> you can have all versions of ie on your box at the same time
06:10 <@apeiron> Looks hopeful.
06:11 <@rizen> i have it on my windows box
06:11 <@rizen> it works great
06:30 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5570 /translations/French/French/ (Asset.pm Asset_Article.pm): update_from_translation_server
06:30 <@rizen> preaction, is that you?
06:30 <@rizen> on the translation server
06:30 <@preaction> no
06:30 <@preaction> someone else is doing french too now
06:30 <@rizen> you are working on french though?
06:30 <@rizen> sweet
06:30 <@rizen> that's cool
06:31 <@rizen> i'm hoping that lisette decides to help out with spanish
06:31 <@preaction> i haven't been able to for a while, not since our meeting
06:34 <@preaction> someones gotten about 14% of it completed in a week
06:47 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5571 /translations/French/French/ (VersionTag.pm Macro_GroupAdd.pm): update_from_translation_server
06:49 <@rizen> they keep going and going and going
06:52 <@rizen> oh, i set up a stats server for translations so we can see a little bit about who's using it
06:52 <@rizen> http://stats.plainblack.com/?config=translation.webgui.org
06:53 <@rizen> it's only got about a quarter day's data in it right nw
06:53 <@rizen> now
06:53 <@rizen> but it will become cool over time
07:01 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5572 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/t/Shop/ShipDriver.t: 
07:01 < CIA-40> WebGUI: Add more tests for the object instanciated by create. Still
07:01 < CIA-40> WebGUI: needs a db interface, though.
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10:23 < xdanger> Is there a "timed publishing feature" in webgui anymore? I remember that in 6.x at some point you could set startDate and endDate for every asset...
10:24 < xdanger> rizen: ?
10:24 < xdanger> preaction: ?
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10:25 <@rizen> you can do it with workflow, but it's not perfect
10:25 <@rizen> i hope to have a new system in place before 7.5 goes stable
10:25 <@rizen> but no guarantees
10:26 < xdanger> When is 7.5 going to "freeze" ?
10:27 <@rizen> [[may 31
10:28 <@rizen> commerce is my priority though
10:28 < xdanger> I just have couple of goverment projects that I'm doing offers (is that the right word for it... bid?) and most of them require timed publishing
10:28 <@rizen> like i said you can do it now with an existing workflow plugin
10:28 < xdanger> Do you have a idea about timed publishing? I might be able to bring some hours of work in to that
10:28 <@rizen> you could build a better workflow plugin
10:29 <@rizen> or you could build the mechanism i have planned
10:29 <@rizen> yes, i have a way to do it
10:30 <@rizen> the gist of it is that as you commit your version tag...when you come to the "comments" screen you'd also get to set a start date and an end date for the publishing of the version tag
10:30 < xdanger> how you can do that now? I still haven't wrapped my head around the workflow stuff completly...
10:31 < xdanger> aaah, that's a good idea...
10:31 < xdanger> I was still thinking the 6.x way of doing it per asset...
10:31 <@rizen> you'd use the workflow activity that allows you to schedule a cron job
10:31 <@rizen> per asset is lame
10:31 <@rizen> it was all there was in 6.x though
10:31 <@rizen> the future is version tags...being able to publish a group of changes
10:32 <@rizen> cuz in reality, you might on occasion publish one thing to a page
10:32 <@rizen> but more likely you're publishing a whole page and all the stuff on it
10:32 <@rizen> or maybe even a whole section to the site
10:33 < xdanger> true
10:33 < xdanger> that's a better way...
10:34 <@rizen> the other thing is that with what i have planned, you'll be able to schedule some super cool stuff like
10:34 < xdanger> I'm still puzzled about how you could do it with the current stable... I think it has to do with the "Create a Scheduled Event" activity...
10:35 <@rizen> commit tag > publish tag on day X > on day Y move the content to an archive area
10:35 <@rizen> yes it has to do with the scheduled activity
10:35 < xdanger> but is there a way that (in the current system) the workflow could ask the user when he/she wants to publis his/her versiontag?
10:36 <@rizen> what you do is set up your default workflow to only have the "Create A Scheduled Event" workflow activity in it
10:36 <@rizen> then create a secondary workflow that does the commit stuff
10:36 <@rizen> and set the scheduled event to a day or time that you want the content to be published
10:37 <@rizen> no there isn't, but you could write a workflow activity to do that if you want
10:37 < xdanger> That's too much for regular user to handle
10:37 <@rizen> the stuff i just said above isn't handled by a user
10:37 <@rizen> it's handled by you...once
10:37 <@rizen> you set it up
10:37 < xdanger> yes
10:37 <@rizen> and it just works
10:37 < xdanger> =P
10:38 <@rizen> granted it's not nearly as easy or flexible as it should be
10:38 <@rizen> which is why i have the plan i told you about
10:38 < xdanger> ok
10:40 < xdanger> If we get any of these offers through I'll contact you about that...
10:43 < xdanger> and btw. the requirements are the the publishing and archive both can be timed
10:44 <@rizen> yup...my plan covers that as i said above
10:44 < xdanger> problem is that the system should be in use may 30 =D
10:44 <@rizen> 7.5 beta is pretty damn stable
10:45 <@rizen> plainblack.com is using it in production
10:45 <@rizen> and so our a bunch of our biggest clients
10:45 <@rizen> in addition, we have a virtual hosting server dedicated to hosting small sites on the beta version
10:46 <@rizen> and so far we have over 30 small sites that want the beta version and are happy with it
10:46 < xdanger> I think I have to upgrade to that... It's allways a little hassle to upgrade because of my custom modifications...
10:46 <@rizen> are your custom mods things that could go into the core so you don't have to keep making them?
10:47 < xdanger> most of them... some are about finnish modifications
10:47 < xdanger> one is userModified1-5.form.datetime for CS
10:47 <@rizen> then you should propose them on the dev mailing list so we can discuss them
10:47 <@rizen> and get them into the core
10:48 < xdanger> and, for one client we needed to sort storage filelist
10:48 <@rizen> it would save you a lot of work in the long run
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10:48 < xdanger> And we have "metadata" for storagefiles in my modifications..
10:49 < xdanger> custom metadata fields for CS storage files that is
10:49 < xdanger> like here: http://luovapaja.fi/taitajat/mirumari
10:50 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5573 /translations/French/French/Asset_Search.pm: update_from_translation_server
10:50 <@rizen> i'm tired (it's 3am here) and this stuff needs to be discussed publically
10:51 <@rizen> create a detailed post on the dev forum
10:51 <@rizen> we'll get it taken care of
10:51 <@rizen> now i must sleep
10:51 < xdanger> ok,
10:51 < xdanger> good night ;)
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16:12 < knowmad> is anyone awake out there besides the bots?
16:25 < perlmonkey2> I'm kind of awake...trying to get ready for work.
16:25 < perlmonkey2> waiting on second pot of coffee before I brave a shave and shower and the cold drive to work.
16:26 < perlmonkey2> Madison,WI has more snow this winter than ever recorded......suckers!
16:26 < knowmad> yeah, it is a cold morning across the states, even down here in the southeast (Charlotte, NC). whereabouts are you?
16:26 < knowmad> oh, madison
16:27 < knowmad> i bet you are cold. are you on staff?
16:27 < perlmonkey2> no, I'm not from madison...thought most of pb was.
16:27 < perlmonkey2> OKC
16:27 < knowmad> yeah, they are. OKC?
16:27 < perlmonkey2> Oklahoma City
16:27 < perlmonkey2> balmy 28 outside with a nice breeze and zero chance of sunburn.
16:29 < knowmad> lovely day
16:29 < knowmad> do you use wG at work?
16:29 < knowmad> well, speaking of work, i've gotta mtg to get to
16:29 < knowmad> talk to you later
16:29 < perlmonkey2> k
16:29 < perlmonkey2> yes, we use wg at work.
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17:07 < lisette> hi
17:08 < lisette> i have another database diferent of webgui, and i wish to do select, how to obtain the result in a macro?
17:22 < nuba> lisette: in your macro you can open a connection to any database you want
17:22 <@preaction> lisette, the same way you would in any other Perl script, only this time inside of sub execute { }
17:22 < nuba> and I think you can use the WebGUI API to get a handle to any database connection configured in the system too
17:22 <@preaction> WebGUI::DatabaseLink
17:23 < nuba> i never used that, but i remember seeing it at the API documentation
17:23 <@preaction> but as rizen said yesterday, you can use WebGUI::SQL->connect( DSN, username, password ); to get a connection to any database at all
17:23 < lisette> yes i do a execute, but the way to obtain the result of a query is the same way of tha database of webgui or is another?
17:23 < lisette> yes i do this
17:24 <@preaction> so you do my $sth = $db->read( 'SQL' );
17:24 < lisette> ok
17:24 < lisette> thanks
17:24 <@preaction> in that case, $sth is a WebGUI::SQL::ResultSet object
17:24 <@preaction> so you can while ( my $hashRef = $sth->hashRef ) { print Dumper $hashRef }
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18:20 <@apeiron> But again, as rizen said, make sure you close it when you're done. 
18:21 <@apeiron> If you're gonna be doing this a lot, it may make sense to use the DatabaseLink class.
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18:23 < BartJo1> Haarg have you and Perldreamer found the commit to svn of the i18n server?
18:23 < BartJo1> eeh problem somewhere in the sentence
18:24 <@Haarg> seems to be working properly now
18:25 < BartJo1> nice, is there also a probability that the dutch translation can be put back from the tar file?
18:25 < BartJo1> the last one I've got?
18:31 <@Haarg> is there something wrong with what's on the server, or did you just do more work offline?
18:31 < BartJo1>  well, it lost all the translations of the rich editor
18:32 < BartJo1> well, 16 percent is present, but not sure how that came there
18:33 < BartJo1> and the problem is that it often looses that translations
18:34 < BartJo1> according to Martin it can be a problem with a pipe symbol, but we're not 100% certain of that
18:34 < BartJo1> it is used as delimiter in the i18n files
18:37 < BartJo1> a german translator was suffering from the same problem
18:39 < BartJo1> as far as I'm concerned, only that namespace is important
18:41 < BartJo1> but I've got to go
18:42 < BartJo1> the link to the tar file is http://www.webgui.nl/uploads/3B/OD/3BODhxWYg5z7MgOQ1g_jqA/Dutch-7-5-2.tar.gz
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19:09 <@apeiron> rizeniszzzzzzz, That IE thing that you linked me to is causing some problems. It just crashed IE when I tried to click the address ar.
19:09 <@apeiron> er, address bar
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19:58 <+perlDreamer> enough foolish chip design
19:58 <+perlDreamer> time to hack on wG!
19:58 <+perlDreamer> knowmad: Are you around?
19:59 <+perlDreamer> how about knowmad-windoze?
20:11 -!- rizeniszzzzzzz is now known as rizen
20:11 <@rizen> apeiron are you seriously blaming me for some download you got off the internet?
20:12 <@apeiron> rizen, Nope.
20:12 < xdanger> rizen: good morning ;)
20:13 <@rizen> morning
20:13 <@rizen> although, i've actually been away for 4 hours now...just releasing WRE and then on a conference call
20:15 < xdanger> I'm just preparing for a beer & chess night =)
20:15 <@rizen> oooh. i did beer and cards last night before i was talking to you
20:15 <@rizen> it's a good time
20:15 <@rizen> are you a chess wiz?
20:17 < xdanger> nope
20:17 < xdanger> did play alot when I was a kid, but mainly drunk chess now days =)
20:19 < stubert> Just did a build of 0.8.2 and went to run wremonitor.pl. Got the following error accessing the page:
20:19 < stubert> malformed JSON string, neither array, object, number, string or atom, at character offset 0 ["(end of string)"] at /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/JSON.pm line 140.
20:19 < stubert> Then it dumps out of the monitor
20:19 < stubert> Opps...
20:19 < stubert> Ment wreconsole.sh
20:20 < stubert> sorry... brain is just comming up... <g>
20:20 <@rizen> you've got to be crapping me
20:20 < stubert> Nope... what can I check?
20:21 <@rizen> mf: what the hell did i do
20:21 <@rizen> it was working
20:21 <+perlDreamer> stubert, what OS?
20:22 < stubert> Debian
20:22 < stubert> Etch
20:23 < stubert> It has a local perl install as well, do you want me to remove the local perl?
20:23 <+perlDreamer> did you source the setEnvironment script?
20:23 < stubert> yes
20:23 <+perlDreamer> then the other perl won't matter
20:23 <@rizen> no
20:24 <@rizen> there's something wrong with the wre console that i didn't catch before
20:24 <@rizen> but i don't know what it is
20:24 <+perlDreamer> something sent JSON an empty string
20:25 <+perlDreamer> maybe from a config file?
20:25 <@rizen> yes something did, but i don't know what
20:25 <@rizen> god damn it!!!!!!!
20:25 < stubert> I'm trying to get a system up for one of my clients so they can play with it... Is there a version I can download and build that will work so I can let them play?
20:25 <@rizen> i tested the hell out of this
20:26 <@rizen> stubert just give me a couple minutes and i'll tell you what you can fix in your local install
20:26 <@rizen> i'm sure it will be a simple change
20:26 < stubert> cool
20:26 <+perlDreamer> rizen: can you duplicate it on your end?
20:26 <@rizen> yes
20:26 < stubert> Thanks
20:31 <@rizen> found it
20:31 <@rizen> fixing
20:36 <@rizen> i didn't vet a last minute patch from a contributor as well as i should have
20:37 <+perlDreamer> can the bug be protected with a test?
20:38 <@rizen> not sure and right now i don't care
20:38 <@rizen> i just have to fix the problem quickly
20:38 <@rizen> we'll worry about that latel
20:38 <@rizen> later
20:39 <+perlDreamer> gotcha, chief
20:39 < stubert> This whole JSON thing has been a real nightmare for you guys hasn't it...
20:40 <@preaction> you wouldn't believe...
20:40 <+perlDreamer> oh yeah
20:40 <+perlDreamer> every day, people posting bugs and forum posts
20:40 <+perlDreamer> or here in IRC
20:40 <+perlDreamer> it's been hard on everyone
20:42 <+perlDreamer> in tcsh, pwd gives you an absolute path, even if you're in a symlinked directory (like /data/WebGUI)
20:42 <+perlDreamer> how do you do that in bash?
20:42 <@preaction> pwd -L
20:43 <@preaction> or 'help pwd' perhaps
20:43 <+perlDreamer> -P
20:43 <+perlDreamer> thank!
20:44 <+perlDreamer> oh, and I tested and applied knowmad's windows testing patch
20:44 <+perlDreamer> and he said he may set up a windows testing server with the WRE based testing tools
20:44 <+perlDreamer> when they're released
20:44 <@preaction> yeah. working on getting them ready to be used by home
20:44 <@preaction> er. him
20:45 <@preaction> (ie documenting usage and options for testwebgui.pl)
20:45 <@preaction> if i can just get in contact with the test server... it seems to not exist...
20:45 <+perlDreamer> not again :)
20:47 < stubert> hey guys, I've got to run to a service call for about 3 hours... will you be posting new release source?
20:47 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5581 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm): Fix running WebGUI tests on Windows.
20:47 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5582 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm): forward porting Testing fix
20:47 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5583 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm): side porting Windows testing fix
20:48 < stubert> I'll gladly build the new blob and let you know if anything else is up...
20:49 <@rizen> think i have the problem about licked
20:49 <@preaction> the computer does a POST beep, but doesn't turn on the monitor.
20:50 < stubert> good enough... again, I don't have a problem testing for you guys if it will help... I'll stay idle in the channel while out today, and if you need to email me you can at stu@socallinuxexpo.org
20:50 < stubert> bbiab
20:51 <@rizen> ok fixed
20:51 <@rizen> committing
20:52 <@apeiron> preaction, I've seen bad RAM cause that.
20:52 <@preaction> MORE bad RAM... for gott's sake...
20:52 <@apeiron> (excepting the obvious bad monitor / video card / anything in between)
20:53 <@apeiron> preaction, Have you tried swapping out known good RAM?
20:54 <@preaction> haven't really tried anything yet
20:54 <@rizen> stubert: apply this diff https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/revision?rev=5584
20:55 <@rizen> fuck, now i have to go rebuild all the wre's again
20:55 <@rizen> so much for getting back to commerce today
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20:58 <@preaction> i think i may have fried the video port
20:58 <@preaction> brand-new RAM gives same issue
21:00 <@apeiron> If it's just doing tests or something that shouldn't be so bad. Go pick up an el cheapo PCI card and you should be fine, yes?
21:00 <@apeiron> (wonder if they still make PCI video cards)
21:00 <@preaction> yes, they do
21:00 <@apeiron> The question now becomes how you fried the video port. :)
21:01 <@preaction> static electricity probably
21:01 <+perlDreamer> it would have to be staticy
21:01 <@rizen> i was thinking it was when you put the mini through the dish washer
21:01 <+perlDreamer> Most chips are 2kV ESD compliant
21:01 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5584 /wrebuild/wre/ (docs/changelog.txt lib/WRE/Site.pm sbin/wreconsole.pl): - Fixed a bug created by a contributed patch.
21:01 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5585 /wrebuild/wre/var/ (3 files in 2 dirs): preparing for a 0.8.3 release
21:02 <+perlDreamer> and you have to work to make 2kV
21:02 <@preaction> last night when i tried to hook the monitor up, i touched the connector to the pins and the computer started power cycling by itself
21:02 <+perlDreamer> like wearing wool socks in an uninsulated house in Wisconsin during the winter
21:02 <@preaction> but then i power cycled again and the monitor came up with the normal boot stuff, so i turned off the monitor
21:03 <@preaction> now it won't even come back on during boot
21:04 <@apeiron> Another idea, try swappin monitors if you have another one.
21:04 <@preaction> dont have another one. was going to try putting the monitor on another computer, known working video card
21:05 <@rizen> have you tried tripple clicking? i've heard that works
21:06 <@preaction> the power button?
21:06 <+perlDreamer> no, the mouse
21:06 <+perlDreamer> tripple clicking is like wearing ruby slippers
21:06 <+perlDreamer> it always works
21:06 <@preaction> is it anything like triple-clicking?
21:06 <+perlDreamer> oh no, tripple clicking is different
21:07 <@preaction> monitor works just fine like wine
21:08 <@apeiron> Okay, so, in theory, the machine *should* boot just fine with the working RAM right?
21:08 <@apeiron> Even if there's no video output.
21:08 <+perlDreamer> some computers won't boot without a monitor present
21:08 <@preaction> but it doesn't respond to SSH, so there's something wrong with the OS
21:08 <@apeiron> Right, but we can't see what that is yet. Fun.
21:09 <+perlDreamer> try this, connect it to a cheap KVM
21:09 <@apeiron> perlDreamer, Hm, noted.
21:09 <+perlDreamer> that should provide you with a video signal on the far end
21:09 <+perlDreamer> um, nm
21:09 <+perlDreamer> no port, doesn't matter what you connect to it.
21:09 <@preaction> yeah
21:09 <+perlDreamer> I'll just go back to writing buggy code
21:09 <@preaction> i think i have a PCI vid card laying around here, sec
21:12 <@preaction> S3 Trio 64v...
21:12 <@preaction> older than dirt...
21:14 <+perlDreamer> crap
21:14 <@preaction> what if it's running an fsck, which is why it hasn't brought up SSH yet
21:14 <+perlDreamer> what does that make me?
21:15 <@preaction> dirt's older, less attractive uncle?
21:15  * perlDreamer writes a reminder to sign preaction up for the emo-wannabe facebook group
21:16 <@preaction> sorry, i already got kicked off livejournal for being too whiny
21:22 <+perlDreamer> when creating JSON strings, is there any requirement to use "pretty"?
21:22 <+perlDreamer> or is it just good practice?
21:22 <@preaction> i think pretty is good for things that the user might have to edit manually, like config files
21:22 <@preaction> not sure, but pretty may also preserve comments
21:23 <@preaction> and god damn it, it's working
21:23 <+perlDreamer> w00t!
21:23 <@preaction> i blew the vga port on the mobo
21:23 <+perlDreamer> on the MacMini?
21:23 <@preaction> iirc there's a fuse in there, i might be able to repair it
21:23 <@preaction> no. on the test box
21:26 < knowmad> perlDreamer: hey, thanks for taking that patch for a test drive
21:26 <@preaction> yup. returned the monitor to the mobo's vga port and it gives me the triple-beep of "no monitor"...
21:27 < knowmad> get this, the issue I was having with JSON library has disappeared
21:28 <+perlDreamer> weird
21:28 < knowmad> i did a reboot and that cleared things up; i wonder if i had libraries out-of-sync on that server
21:28 < knowmad> and the test script i wrote for Instance.t is passing on Windows and Linux
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21:28 < knowmad> it's not much but do you want to take a look at it?
21:28 <+perlDreamer> sure
21:28 < knowmad> where should i send it?
21:29 <+perlDreamer> why not use the dev list
21:29 <+perlDreamer> and I'll peek at it when I come back from lunch
21:29 <+perlDreamer> you do too much of this and we'll have to give you a commit bit
21:29 < knowmad> i forgot, i added it to pastebin (http://webgui.pastebin.org/20650) but I'll throw it on the dev list as well
21:30 < knowmad> hey, wait a sec
21:30 < knowmad> i don't want that responsibility yet...
21:30 < knowmad> hopefully one day i'll earn it
21:31 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5586 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (3 files in 3 dirs): label is already stored in the options, and never used directly in any method. Code that wants it can instanciate an object
21:31 <@preaction> and yay! there's no option in Intel's BIOS to enable / disable the check for monitor...
21:31 <@preaction> which means that KVM switch i was going to buy is now a necessity...
21:50 < stubert> rizen: Can't modify non-lvalue subroutine call at /data/wre/lib/WRE/Site.pm line 79
21:50 <@rizen> did you apply both diffs?
21:50 <@rizen> there were two on the page i sent you
21:51 <@rizen> actually three, but one is a documentation file
21:51 < stubert> Yes, but I couldn't figure out how to get them in test format, so I did them by hand...
21:51 < stubert> Hell, whats the svn url again?
21:52 < stubert> I'll just grab fresh code from svn
21:52 < stubert> You need to make sure that works anyways... right?
21:54 <@rizen> https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/revision?rev=5584
21:54 <@rizen> i've already tested them on my local box
21:54 <@rizen> i know they work
21:54 <@rizen> and on that svn page there are links to actual diff files
21:54 <@rizen> oh guess there aren't
21:54 <@rizen> they're all formated
21:54 <@rizen> sorry about that
21:55 <@rizen> you can download the files from svn here: https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/browse/wrebuild/wre/
21:55 <@rizen> or rather here: https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/wrebuild/wre/
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22:05 < stubert> Well crap...
22:07 <@rizen> crap?
22:08 < stubert> the source dir isn't in the repo... No worries... It's my learning curve...
22:09 <@rizen> you don't need to rebuild from scratch
22:09 <@rizen> you've already built
22:09 <@rizen> just put the two files into place
22:09 <@rizen> that i edited
22:09 <@rizen> that's it
22:09 <@rizen> https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/wrebuild/wre/lib/WRE/Site.pm
22:10 <@rizen> https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/wrebuild/wre/sbin/wreconsole.pl
22:12 < stubert> You'd think it would be that easy... But my young assistant was trying to be helpful and deleted the /data dir on the dev box...
22:12 < stubert> heh...
22:19 < stubert> It's now building from svn... from scratch... (damn kids)
22:27 <@rizen> ok then just replace those two files in the 0.8.2 tarbal in the wrebuild/wre folder
22:37 < stubert> Ok I'm building with clean 0.8.2 and only those two files.
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22:58 <@rizen> stubert: there's one more file you should copy into /data/wre/var/setupfiles/ after you are done building
22:58 <@rizen> https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template
22:59 < knowmad> rizen: are you going to be re-releasing WRE anytime soon?
22:59 <@rizen> i'm putting together the wre 0.8.3 source file right now with all these changes and some fixed tests
22:59 <@rizen> yes
22:59 < knowmad> cool
22:59 <@rizen> i'm working
23:00 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5587 /wrebuild/wre/ (10 files in 5 dirs): - Fixed some tests that weren't working properly.
23:10 < stubert> rizen: will do... from r5584 or r5587?
23:10 <@rizen> the version at this url: https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template
23:11 <@rizen> sorry for the screw up
23:11 <@rizen> i'm usually more careful than this
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23:41 < wgGuest07> hello
23:41 < wgGuest07> i have a question, can i create collaboration system automatically using a macro?
23:49 <@preaction> that doesn't sound like a very good idea
23:54 < wgGuest07> why?
23:55 < nuba> hey, if i need to hack keywords (tagcloud) into a Collab, is there anything besides just importing the relevant sections from wikipage to post and from wikimaster to collab?
23:56 <@rizen> nuba: not really, all the subsystems are designed to work with any asset, so it's just the front end code that you need
23:56 < nuba> obviously massaging it hile doing the import
23:57 <@rizen> wgGuest07: creating a collaboration system from a macro doesn't make any sense. they have nothing to do with each other. why don't you explain the end result you'd like to achieve instead and maybe someone can offer some advice
23:58 < nuba> rizen: thx
23:59 <@apeiron> wgGuest07, What if someone decided to be a mean person and automated requesting the page where the macro lives?
--- Day changed Sat Feb 23 2008
00:00 <@apeiron> You'd have hundreds or thousands of collab systems.
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00:23 < stubert> rizen: Just a heads up:
00:23 < stubert> 'jsonToObj' will be obsoleted. Please use 'from_json' instead. at /data/wre/lib/WRE/WebguiUpdate.pm line 159
00:23 < stubert> During config...
00:24 <@rizen> yeah that won't affect anything
00:24 <@rizen> and is fixed in svn if you really want to fix it
00:24 <@rizen> and is also fixed in WRE 0.8.3
00:24 <@rizen> which was just released
00:24 < stubert> cool... just doing the "report to the programmer thing"
00:24 <@rizen> appreciate it
00:25 < stubert> Wow! I think it worked!
00:27 <+perlDreamer> rizen: just a heads up.  Probably no commerce work over the weekend.  My laptop is going through an upgrade.
00:27 <@rizen> probably not me either...gotta catch up after this hell week
00:28 <+perlDreamer> did the plumber come yet?
00:28 <@rizen> yeah, and he can't fix it
00:28 <@rizen> so he refunded my money
00:28 <@rizen> so that's back on me too
00:29 <+perlDreamer> that's the water back to your utility sink in the little bathroom off the kitchen?
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00:31 <@apeiron> I need to upgrade the YUI in WebGUI to 2.5.0. There's an existing yui directory. Is there a way I can do this in one operation as far as the repo is concerned?
00:31 <@apeiron> So that there's no possibility someone does an update or a checkout with an inconsistent / nonexistent copy of YUI?
00:32 < stubert> So, did you want me to build a 0.8.3 version and gz it for you using etch?
00:32 <+perlDreamer> just make all the changes, then head to /data/WebGUI and do the commit from there
00:32 <@apeiron> rm the old directory?
00:32 <@apeiron> There may be files not in use in 2.5.0 that are in 2.4.0, I don't see why we need to keep them around.
00:32 <+perlDreamer> svn delete
00:32 <@apeiron> ah.
00:32 <@apeiron> Oh!
00:33 <+perlDreamer> and the upgrade script will need to remove the files by hand
00:33 <@apeiron> 1. Each item specified by a PATH is scheduled for deletion upon next commit.
00:34 <@preaction> and then svn add --force yui once you extract yui to the right place
00:35 <@apeiron> Okie, thanks, gents.
00:35 <+perlDreamer> apeiron, just be sure to test everything with AJAX in it that's in the core.
00:36 <@apeiron> yay, fun.
00:36 <@preaction> you mean everything you can get your grubby testing mitts on. a LOT of stuff uses yui
00:36 <@preaction> mostly, just try adding / editing assets. if that works you should be pretty safe
00:36 <+perlDreamer> how 'bout the gallery?
00:37 <@preaction> the JS in there is getting rewritten. the yui carosel thing i use sucks
00:37 <@apeiron> I sent the login credentials to the staff list, if people want to give me a hand testing.
00:37 <@apeiron> If anyone else wants to help with testing let me know.
00:39 <+perlDreamer> hm, maybe syntax highlighting was invented for a reason...
00:39 <@apeiron> When it works, yeah.
00:39  * apeiron can only imagine the hell that perl6 is going to give syntax highlighters.
00:39 <+perlDreamer> I spent 5 minutes trying to figure why perl couldn't find my new sub
00:40 <+perlDreamer> when it's between =head2 and =cut
00:46 <@preaction> as they say, only perl can parse Perl
01:08 <@apeiron> uhm, yay. Submitting asset descriptions is borked.
01:08 <@rizen> perlDreamer: yes that, and some other utility spigots in the basement and outside
01:09 <@apeiron> Glad I didn't do the commit yet.
01:09 <@rizen> apeiron: the way to go is to just delete the existing YUI folder in svn
01:09 <@rizen> commit
01:09 <@rizen> then extract the new one
01:09 <@rizen> and do an add operation
01:09 <@apeiron> rizen, Okie.
01:10 <@rizen> and apeiron: when you do it, also delete the Ext folder as it will no longer be needed
01:10 <@apeiron> rizen, I'd like to fix these glaring JS bugs first though. :)
01:10 <@rizen> sure
01:10 <@apeiron> rizen, wG/www/extras/extjs ?
01:10 <@rizen> i'm just telling you for future
01:10 <@rizen> yes
01:10 <@apeiron> Noted, thanks.
01:10 <@rizen> ok guys, do you need anything else..cuz i have an appointment
01:12 -!- rizen is now known as rizenisaway
01:12 <@apeiron> Nothing I haven't already requested (i.e., eyes out for new YUI-related bugs)
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01:19 < CIA-40> WebGUI: jt * r5588 /translations/Polish/Polish/ (15 files): update_from_translation_server
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02:13 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5589 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/ShipDriver.pm t/Shop/ShipDriver.t): 
02:13 < CIA-40> WebGUI: getName, getId, set, create with db storage.
02:13 < CIA-40> WebGUI: Added tests for all those methods.
02:13 < CIA-40> WebGUI: Check that definition gets a session object or else.
02:16 <@apeiron> perlDreamer, Or else *what*?
02:16 < stubert> thanks to all! I'm sure I be back... <g>
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02:16 <+perlDreamer> It's the same "or else" that they use in the movies
02:17 <@apeiron> But they never tell you then either!
02:17 <+perlDreamer> No, their secret will be safe forever
02:17 <@apeiron> They just toss the line out there and seem to point to some literally obscene (i.e, "offscene", the original meaning of the word) explanation.
02:19 <+perlDreamer> or else...
02:19 <+perlDreamer> sleeping with the fisher
02:19 <+perlDreamer> wearing a cement tuxedo
02:19 <+perlDreamer> sucking phlegm and die
02:19 <@apeiron> That doesn't sound pleasant! That doesn't sound pleasant at all!
02:19 <+perlDreamer> exploring infinity
02:32 <+perlDreamer> Making Star Trek V
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02:47 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5590 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/ShipDriver.pm t/Shop/ShipDriver.t): 
02:47 < CIA-40> WebGUI: Start working on the new method, with tests.
02:47 < CIA-40> WebGUI: Refactor out the object building code into a private method to be shared by
02:47 < CIA-40> WebGUI: new and create.
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08:31 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5591 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/ShipDriver.pm t/Shop/ShipDriver.t): 
08:31 < CIA-40> WebGUI: Move the delete test after the new test, so that there's an object
08:31 < CIA-40> WebGUI: to pull from the db. Sheesh.
08:31 < CIA-40> WebGUI: Remove the id generation from inside the private build method
08:31 < CIA-40> WebGUI: and make sure it returns the built object.
08:46 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5592 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/ShipDriver.pm t/Shop/ShipDriver.t): add the get tests and method
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12:26 < wgGuest68> Hiya boys and gals
12:26 < wgGuest68> Can someone help me? I keep getting a "BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at ./wreconsole.pl line 18." after trying to start WRE
12:30 < wgGuest68> Now it started all a sudden but when I try to add a site I getting "Site could not be created because MySQL appears to be down. at ./wreconsole.pl line 228"
12:32 < wgGuest68> Anybody there ?
12:39 < wgGuest68> Hello ?
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20:30 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: Installing WRE 0.8.3 - Edited on 2/23/2008 12:19 pm by cap10morgan  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/installing-wre-0.8.3
20:33 < nuba> nice
20:34 < nuba> cap10morgan++
20:49 < CIA-40> WebGUI: doug * r5593 /branch/doug-experimental/lib/WebGUI/ (Form/Interval.pm Asset/Wobject/Calendar.pm): checkin current work on calendar list view so i can merge
23:36 < nuba> hey guys, what is the best way to find the first ancestor of an asset of a specific class?
23:36 < nuba> im at a post, and would like to find the collab asset it belongs to
23:37 < nuba> so first ancestor starting from self and going towards root
23:38 < nuba> otherwise, im going to get the posts's thread, then the thread's parent..
23:39 < nuba> but knowing if theres a upwards lineage lookup would be nice
23:41 <@preaction> nuba, $self->getLineage( [ 'ancestors' ], { includeOnlyClasses => ['WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Collaboration'] } );
23:43 < nuba> duh
23:43 < nuba> thanks
23:46 < nuba> is keywords for the Collab something people would want contributed back?
23:46 <@preaction> most likely
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23:46 <@preaction> i believe it's somehting JT wanted to to, but didn't have time
23:46 < cap10morgan> Have you guys had reports of problems with runCronJob in 7.4.25?
23:46 <@preaction> it's using the WebGUI::Keyword thing, right? by doing $self->update('keywords');
23:48 < cap10morgan> runCronJob seems to fail after upgrading to 7.4.25, which causes spectre to DOS my server :)
23:48 < cap10morgan> extracting 7.4.24 over top and restarting makes all well again
23:48 < cap10morgan> i'm opening a bug report now
23:49 <@preaction> this -stable, -beta thing is becoming bumpy...
23:50 < CIA-40> WebGUI: doug * r5594 /branch/ (657 files in 147 dirs): finished Calendar list view and iCalendar page size selector
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00:15 < CIA-40> WebGUI: doug * r5595 /branch/doug-experimental/docs/upgrades/ (packages-7.5.4/home_calendar-templates.wgpkg packages-7.5.4): added package for default (bad) templates
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06:17 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5596 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 
06:17 < CIA-40> WebGUI: Refactor out the getEditForm code from WebGUI::Workflow::Activity and
06:17 < CIA-40> WebGUI: put it into HTMLForm. Now HTMLForm can generate dynamic, definition
06:17 < CIA-40> WebGUI: based forms for WebGUI.
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08:03 < preaction> i am apparently the #1 person to visit svn.webgui.org
08:03 < preaction> by about 700%
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14:11 < CIA-40> WebGUI: doug * r5597 /branch/doug-experimental/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Calendar.pm: Nightly checkin because you forgot
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15:48 <+MrHairgrease> howdy!
17:04 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: Installing WRE 0.8.3 - Edited on 2/24/2008 8:53 am by tavis.parker  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/installing-wre-0.8.3
17:06 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: Installing WRE 0.8.3 - Edited on 2/24/2008 8:55 am by tavis.parker  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/installing-wre-0.8.3
17:08 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: WebGUI Runtime Environment - Edited on 2/24/2008 8:57 am by tavis.parker  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/webgui-runtime-environment
17:09 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: WebGUI Runtime Environment - Edited on 2/24/2008 8:58 am by tavis.parker  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/webgui-runtime-environment
17:10 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: WebGUI Runtime Environment - Edited on 2/24/2008 9:00 am by tavis.parker  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/webgui-runtime-environment
17:10 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: WebGUI Runtime Environment - Edited on 2/24/2008 8:59 am by tavis.parker  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/webgui-runtime-environment
17:54 <+MrHairgrease> lesson of the day: Never pick your nose after mincing chillis...
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18:48 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: Getting Started in the WebGUI Community - Edited on 2/24/2008 10:37 am by tavis.parker  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/getting-started-in-the-webgui-community
18:52 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: Getting Started in the WebGUI Community - Edited on 2/24/2008 10:41 am by tavis.parker  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/getting-started-in-the-webgui-community
18:53 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: Getting Started in the WebGUI Community - Edited on 2/24/2008 10:42 am by tavis.parker  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/getting-started-in-the-webgui-community
18:57 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: Getting Started in the WebGUI Community - Edited on 2/24/2008 10:46 am by tavis.parker  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/getting-started-in-the-webgui-community
18:59 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: Getting Started in the WebGUI Community - Edited on 2/24/2008 10:48 am by tavis.parker  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/getting-started-in-the-webgui-community
19:03 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: Getting Started in the WebGUI Community - Edited on 2/24/2008 10:52 am by tavis.parker  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/getting-started-in-the-webgui-community
19:05 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: IRC - Edited on 2/24/2008 10:54 am by tavis.parker  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/irc
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19:23 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: Installing WRE 0.8.3 - Edited on 2/24/2008 11:12 am by tavis.parker  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/installing-wre-0.8.3
19:24 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: Installing WRE 0.8.3 - Edited on 2/24/2008 11:13 am by tavis.parker  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/installing-wre-0.8.3
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19:26 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: Installing WRE 0.8.3 - Edited on 2/24/2008 11:15 am by tavis.parker  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/installing-wre-0.8.3
19:26  * perlmonkey2 just realized the Dropkick Murphys have a new album out.....today is a good day.
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21:15 < diakopter> for someone's future reference, on a plain-jane RHEL4/Centos4 install, the packages ncurses and libstdc++ need installed for the wre 0.8.3's mysql to work.
21:59 <@preaction> diakopter, if you want the right people to get that info, you'll probably want to post it to the dev mailing list
21:59 <@preaction> if it's not already in the readme
22:26 < diakopter> fresh 0.8.3 install, all the defaults, wreconsole.pl says ADMIN: [Error] Couldn't fetch Spectre configuration data for [sitename].conf
22:26 < diakopter> where [sitename] is my sitename
22:27 < diakopter> and I did get a success message (just prior) from addsite.pl.  [sitename] was created. Don't forget to restart the web servers and Spectre.  (which I did)
22:28 < diakopter> preaction: any ideas?  This worked a few days ago on wre 0.8.1
22:28 <@preaction> error logs
22:32 < diakopter> preaction: it seems to have healed itself.
22:34 < diakopter> however, now, Spectre 
22:34 < diakopter> preaction: however, now Spectre seems to be abnormally stopping itself without logging an error
22:35 <@preaction> what does perl spectre.pl --run --debug do?
22:37 < diakopter> Couldn't execute operation : WebGUI::Operation::Cron::www_runCronJob. Root cause: malformed JSON string, neither array, object, number, string or atom, at character offset 0 ["(end of string)"] at /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/JSON.pm line 140.
22:37 < diakopter> that's from webgui.log
22:38 < diakopter> (and spectre died).  now launching it from the command line as you requested
22:41 < diakopter> no errors from spectre so far
22:41 < diakopter> trying a versioned operation
22:42 < diakopter> worked just fine
22:42 < diakopter> until now
22:43 <@preaction> 7.4.25 i assume?
22:43 < diakopter> yes; do I need something later?
22:43 <@preaction> grab the WebGUI::Workflow::Cron out of 7.4.24
22:43 <@preaction> 7.4.25 is the latest stable
22:43 -!- preaction changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.25-stable / 7.5.3-beta | WRE 0.8.1 ] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org | Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com/ | WebGUI to be included in default Debian distribution
22:45 <@preaction> i think that fixes it. there's something on the bug list about it
22:45  * diakopter grabs https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/checkout/releases/WebGUI_7.4.24-stable/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Cron.pm
22:47 <@preaction> i expect tomorrow or late tonight i'll figure out what happened, but i imagine a combination of 1) No tests for the 7.4 branch (fixed now) 2) the JSON 2.x fiasco and 3) the tests passing somehow before the release
22:47 <@preaction> (1) being no nightly tests, not no tests period
22:50 < diakopter> preaction: are you the one who will make the WebGUI debian package?
22:50 <@preaction> no
22:51 <@preaction> iirc it's in debian testing right now
22:51 <@preaction> and i don't remember who's doing it, but it might have a maintainer line
22:52 <@preaction> nm, must just be proposed
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02:27 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5598 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/HTMLForm.pm: 
02:27 < CIA-40> WebGUI: getEditForm also needs to accept the name of the hash key where
02:27 < CIA-40> WebGUI: the list of fields is, because it is different in different
02:27 < CIA-40> WebGUI: places in WebGUI.
02:27 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5599 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/ShipDriver.pm t/Shop/ShipDriver.t): Add getEditForm to the ShipDriver, and test it.
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03:02 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5600 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/shipper.pod: GT to >
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08:13 < CIA-40> WebGUI: colin * r5601 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (5 files in 4 dirs): 
08:13 < CIA-40> WebGUI: Interim checkin.
08:13 < CIA-40> WebGUI: FlatRate needs i18n and more tests.
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14:12 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5602 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Cron.pm docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt): fixed: runCronJob operation fails
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15:54 < wgGuest30> hello
15:54 < wgGuest30> i have a question
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16:03 < wgGuest30> i have an error in my site, related to insert a image in a article o collaboration system
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16:04 < wgGuest30> when i uploaded the image i don't have any problem, but when i try to insert it, the webgui.log shows me the next error
16:04 < wgGuest30> Can't make a thumbnail for a file that is not in my storage location
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16:26  * ckotil just saw a ghost
16:26  * MrHairgrease saw it too
16:26 <+MrHairgrease> never knew crythias was undead...
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17:04 -!- rizen changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.25-stable / 7.5.3-beta | WRE 0.8.3 ] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org | Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com/
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17:42 < wgGuest30> hello 
17:43 < wgGuest30> i have an error in my site, related to insert a image in a article o collaboration system 
17:43 < wgGuest30> Can't make a thumbnail for a file that is not in my storage 
17:54 < wgGuest30> MrHairgrease, can you help me ?
17:55 <+MrHairgrease> not right now busy
17:55 <+MrHairgrease> but if you cannot upload images
17:55 <+MrHairgrease> 10 to 1 that your file system privs ar enot correct
17:56 < wgGuest30> i can upload the images, the problem is that i can not insert it in an article
18:02 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui
18:08 < preaction> good morning everybody!
18:09 < wgGuest30> good morning
18:10 < wgGuest30> preaction, are you busy?
18:10 < preaction> always, why
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18:11 < wgGuest30> yes, i know, but i have a question related to sql forms
18:13 <@preaction> i'm not the one to ask on those things, that'd be MrHairgrease
18:14 < wgGuest30> ok
18:14 < wgGuest30> besides i have a problem with the image thumbnail 
18:15 < wgGuest30> i have a user as a content manager and he upload images without problems but when he tries to insert them in an article o collaboration system the webgui.log shows me an error
18:16 < wgGuest30> the error is the next Can't make a thumbnail for a file that is not in my storage location 
18:16 < wgGuest30> do you know what is it about'
18:17 <@preaction> which version
18:17 < wgGuest30> 7.3.24
18:17 < wgGuest30> excuseme 7.4.24
18:17 <@preaction> iirc that's a known issue, upgrade to 7.4.25
18:18 <@preaction> Haarg, you fixed the image upload problems in 7.4.24, right?
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18:18 <@preaction> wgGuest30, is there any other errors before "can't make a thumbnail?"
18:18 <@Haarg> afaik
18:20 < wgGuest30> no, i upload the image without problem
18:20 < wgGuest30> the problem is when i try to insert it in an article
18:21 < wgGuest30> since i upgraded to 7.4.24 i have saw the next error Asset constructor new() requires an assetId.
18:21 < wgGuest30> are the errors related?
18:23 <+MrHairgrease> wgGuest30: if your sqlform problem is not too long I might be able to help you out
18:25 < wgGuest30> MrHairgrease, the thing is that i have a list of items and i want to create a check list to show them.  the user can check some of them but i have noticed that only one answer is been saved
18:25 <+MrHairgrease> what's the db fieldftype?
18:26 <+MrHairgrease> and the form field type
18:26 <+MrHairgrease> checklist or check box
18:26 < wgGuest30> yes, check box
18:27 <+MrHairgrease> checkbox allows for only one answer
18:27 <+MrHairgrease> use checklist
18:27 < wgGuest30> the db field is int
18:27 <+MrHairgrease> also make sure you have the correct db type
18:27 <+MrHairgrease> what did you set that to?
18:27 <+MrHairgrease> int is also a nono if you want to store multiple values
18:27 <+MrHairgrease> you'd be better off using text
18:27 < wgGuest30> and the form field is check list
18:29 <+MrHairgrease> ok so change the field to use checklist/text
18:29 <+MrHairgrease> if you use int you can only store one value.
18:29 <+MrHairgrease> and then only and only if the key of the key/value pair is 100% numeric
18:29 < wgGuest30> ok
18:31 < wgGuest30> i am going to test
18:32 < wgGuest30> thanks MrHairgrease
18:32 <+MrHairgrease> does it work now?
18:33 < wgGuest30> i am creating the field type and the field,
18:33 < wgGuest30> wait a minute please
18:33 <+MrHairgrease> ok
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18:37 <+perlDreamer> morning folks
18:37 <@preaction> morning
18:37 <+MrHairgrease> hi pd
18:38 <+perlDreamer> what happened to the test run from last night?
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18:43 <@preaction> perlDreamer, the SVN instance on my box didn't have log.conf or spectre.conf (just the .originals)
18:43 <+MrHairgrease> i'm off to home. bbl. wgguest30 let me know if you succeeded later.
18:43 < wgGuest30> MrHairgrease, yes it works.  But i have another question, how can i edit o eliminate this option,leave empty-
18:43 <@preaction> don't know why those 7.4 tests are failing, do'nt know if they're actual failures or just test box problems
18:44 <@preaction> i'm upgrading the test box to WRE 0.8.3 right now
18:44 <+perlDreamer> they are actual failures
18:44 <+perlDreamer> I think they're fixed in 7.5 and may just need to be backported
18:44 <@preaction> k
18:45 <@preaction> once i have the WRE 0.8.3 built i'll fix things and run the SVN test again
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19:10 <+perlDreamer> preaction: Did you see my getEditForm hack in the edit branch this weekend?
19:10 <@preaction> no
19:10 <@preaction> which revision?
19:11 <+perlDreamer> 5596 ( and also 5598 with a bug fix)
19:12 <+perlDreamer> basically, I gave HTMLForm a getEditForm method
19:13 <+perlDreamer> so you don't have to reinvent it for all new classes
19:14 <@preaction> sweet
19:14 <+perlDreamer> still need one for the tabform, but it's a start
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19:33  * perlmonkey2 realizes that a mini-itx may be able to run WG, but developing on it is no fun.....30 seconds httpd reboots suck.
19:33 <@preaction> nice
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19:55 < perlmonkey2> Where are the international values stored?  I don't see a db table with international in it.
19:56 <@preaction> lib/WebGUI/i18n/Language/Namespace.pm
19:56 < perlmonkey2> thanks
19:58 < perlmonkey2> hhm, I'm guessing that is only supposed to be edited via the WG asset manager?
19:58 <+perlDreamer> no, it's just perl
19:58 <+perlDreamer> hash of hashes
19:58 <+perlDreamer> you can start with the _i18n.skeleton file
19:58 <+perlDreamer> or, if you prefer, i18n.webgui.org
19:58 < perlmonkey2> right, but it has that lastupdated field.
19:59 <+perlDreamer> right
19:59 < perlmonkey2> usually timestamps imply some interface
19:59 <+perlDreamer> :.!perl -e 's/\d+/time()/e;'
19:59 < perlmonkey2> heh
19:59 < perlmonkey2> okay
19:59 <+perlDreamer> it's just record keeping so that the translators can figure out when something was updated
19:59 <@preaction> the translation system at i18n.webgui.org uses it
19:59 < perlmonkey2> got it, thanks
19:59 <+perlDreamer> that's actually a macro in my .vimrc
19:59 <@preaction> i would suggest using that to update translations
20:00 < perlmonkey2> preaction: this is for the new survey module.
20:00 <@preaction> ah, then no
20:00 <@preaction> make an English translation of what you need
20:00 < perlmonkey2> okay
20:00 <@preaction> i just set lastUpdated to 0 when i initially create my stuff, don't know what that does really
20:01 <@rizen> 0 is good
20:01 <@rizen> it means it hasn't been updated since it's initial add
20:01 <@rizen> that's what i do as well
20:04 < perlmonkey2> In the tabform for the survey, I see a whatNext value of editQuestion, but there isn't an editQuestion sub, only www_editQuestion.  Does WG translate to the www_?
20:05 <+perlDreamer> what OS does the appliance use?
20:05 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2: func=method translates to www_method
20:05 <@rizen> perlDreamer: CentOS 5
20:05 <+perlDreamer> sweet
20:05 <+perlDreamer> we have vmware running on the 2 GHz linux workstations
20:06 < perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: okay, thanks
20:06 <+perlDreamer> I think it's time to upgrade from the 500 MHz dev box :)
20:06 <@rizen> awesome, so the appliance will work for you at $dayJob
20:06 <+perlDreamer> I sure hope so
20:06 <@preaction> also, it should be "proceed" not "whatNext". "proceed" is handled directly by Asset.pm->www_editSave
20:07 < perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: 500Mhz dev box?  And I thought I was suffering with a 1Ghz dev box.
20:07 <@rizen> just so you know, it's not set up in dev mode, but rather in production mode...i can show you how to reset it for dev mode if you like
20:07 <+perlDreamer> not only is it 500 MHz, but it's a P3
20:07 <+perlDreamer> rizen, first I need to see how to install new images
20:07 <+perlDreamer> I may not have enough access to do that
20:07 <@preaction> perlmonkey2, i mean for your new code, the old code is the old code. your new code should use "proceed". see Asset.pm www_editSave to see how that works
20:07 < perlmonkey2> preaction: okay, I'm trying to parse the current survey system and use as much of it as possible, and that is how it handled the tabforms.
20:07 < perlmonkey2> okay
20:07 <@rizen> preaction: the survey predates the asset system that's why it's not currently proceed
20:08 <@preaction> that's what i figured, it's old, but it works. new stuff uses new techniques
20:08 <@rizen> perlDreamer: you'll have full root access on the webgui appliance provided you have the privs to install new vmware appliances
20:08 < perlmonkey2> Heh, this is going to be a *huge* learning experience.
20:09 <+perlDreamer> so, would I stick that in VMWare Player, or VMWare Workstation?
20:10 <@rizen> either
20:10 <+perlDreamer> hm
20:10 <+perlDreamer> 650 Mb
20:11 <@rizen> yeah it's big
20:11 <+perlDreamer> that's bigger than my user quota
20:11 <@rizen> and it's even bigger than that extracted
20:11 <@rizen> at least my system reports it at about 1gb extracted
20:12 <@rizen> that's cuz it has a swap partition, and the operating system on it
20:12 <@rizen> plus the 250mb wre
20:12 <@rizen> plus the 50mb webgui
20:12 <@rizen> and i pruned a lot out of the os
20:13 <@rizen> it doesn't have X or apache or anything extra
20:15 <+perlDreamer> that might be a problem
20:15 <+perlDreamer> we have an authenticated proxy
20:15 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5603 /translations/Polish/Polish/AdSpace.pm: update_from_translation_server
20:15 <+perlDreamer> I'll find a way to do it via wget or links
20:18 <+perlDreamer> hm, free disk space :)
20:19 <+perlDreamer> and a world writable VMware directory
20:19 <@preaction> it'd be a shame if nobody took advantage of that
20:20 <+perlDreamer> yes
20:20 <+perlDreamer> although, the machines are admin'ed with cfengine, so it will be a bit of an experiment for a while
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20:43 < perlmonkey2> I'm guessing calls to view automatically call prepareView first?
20:44 <@rizen> not necessarily
20:44 <@rizen> just depends on the asset
20:44 <@rizen> in general though www_view does both prepareView and view
20:45 < perlmonkey2> For instance, the WeatherData has no explicit call to prepareView.
20:45 <@rizen> right, but the super class's www_view does
20:46 < perlmonkey2> So as long as my Asset is a Wobject, I can count on prepareView being called first.  Groovy.
20:46 <@rizen> and the layout asset explicitly calls prepareView before calling view when inlining it into a page
20:48 < perlmonkey2> use base or @ISA for inheritance?
20:48 <@preaction> use base
20:48 < perlmonkey2> k
20:48 <@preaction> do you have a copy of Perl Best Practices? if not, you should
20:49 < perlmonkey2> Yes, I have a copy.
20:49 <@preaction> with some minor exceptions like camel case and "return undef;", we follow them all
20:49 < perlmonkey2> Do I just assume those are WG best practices?
20:49 < perlmonkey2> k
20:49 <@preaction> basically
20:50 <@rizen> there's also a wiki page that describes webgui's best practices beyond PBP
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20:54 < ckotil> rizen: any thought about a Xen guest WebGUI, similiar to the vmware appliance?
20:55 <@rizen> i'm fine with that, but i'm not going to maintain it....we have enough stuff to maintain at this point
20:55 < ckotil> ive packaged up a xen guest for windows XP pro that i can deploy in almost no time at all.
20:55 < ckotil> gotcha.
20:55 <@rizen> SynQ (koen@procolix.nl) has stated he'd like to maintain one
20:55 <@rizen> but i don't know where he is at present with it
20:56 < ckotil> does the vmware apliance run the wre?
20:56 <@rizen> yes
20:56 < ckotil> cool.
20:56 <@rizen> windows xp wouldn't work as a guest for our appliance though cuz then you need a windows license
20:56 <@rizen> so we used CentOS 5 instead
20:56 <@rizen> cuz it's got a free license
20:57 < ckotil> yah. ive got access to a university license.
20:58 <@rizen> if you're interested in maintaining one, then i'd give you privs to put it up on source forge for distribution, and i'd link to it from getwebgui.com
20:58 < ckotil> i would take you up on that if i used xen guests for webgui. but im just running webgui from source at the moment
21:00 < perlmonkey2> If my wobject edit screens aren't using a tabform or html form, but a processTemplate call, then will I need to call prepareView to get the SUPER call, myself?  
21:01 <@preaction> prepareView is only needed for view and www_view. not for other things
21:01 <@rizen> unless you want to do content chunking
21:02 <@rizen> but on the survey, i don't think that will be necessary
21:02 < perlmonkey2> And I won't need the toolbar.
21:02 < perlmonkey2> cool
21:03 < nuba> you can go from a vmware image to xen
21:03 < nuba> http://ian.blenke.com/vmware/vmdk/xen/hvm/qemu/vmware_to_xen_hvm.html
21:08 < nuba> if this works ok, then you'll need just to mantain the vmware image and most likely automate the creation of the xen image
21:09 < ckotil> nice!
21:10 <@rizen> still not doing it
21:11 <@rizen> perlDreamer: need an opinion
21:11 <@rizen> i'm thinking that all Sku assets should have a Commerce tab, and that's where we put stuff like sku, price, tax override, etc
21:11 <@rizen> what do you think?
21:12 < nuba> rizen: i was suggesting that to ckotil 
21:12 <+perlDreamer> yeah, I like it
21:12 <@rizen> nuba: ok
21:13 <@rizen> perlDreamer: you don't think that it adds too much clutter to have that extra tab?
21:13 <+perlDreamer> rizen :I've been doing more API scheming, but I can't quite figure out how to put getEditForm from the Assets into TabForm, yet.
21:13 <@rizen> i mean, i like it on CS for mail stuff, and on poll for graphing
21:13 <+perlDreamer> I think it's better to have 1 extra tab that puts all the commerce stuff in 1 place
21:13 <@rizen> i'm just worried that people might start getting peeved about over organization
21:13 <+perlDreamer> Does anyone complain about settings?
21:13 <@rizen> yes
21:14 <@rizen> lots of people say that assets have too much to configure
21:14 <@rizen> and are too difficutl
21:14 <+perlDreamer> UI level
21:14 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5604 /translations/Polish/Polish/Asset.pm: update_from_translation_server
21:14 <@rizen> re api scheming, what's the trouble? is the asset definition just too different from the other ones?
21:15 <+perlDreamer> it uses tabs
21:15 <+perlDreamer> I have an idea on how to abstract it out, but haven't tried it yet
21:15 < nuba> rizen: probably lots of people appreciate tabs too, but arent as vocal about it as the ones complaining
21:15 <@rizen> nuba: good point
21:15 <+perlDreamer> the other thing is that it keeps the vital stuff above the fold
21:15 < perlmonkey2> So this is correct.  I would set the template for editing surveys in the definition as a property.  Then when I was processing the template, I would retrieve that setting with $self->getValue correct?
21:16 <@rizen> yes
21:16 < perlmonkey2> cool, thanks
21:16 <@rizen> ok then, Commerce tab it is
21:17 <+perlDreamer> I haven't asset'ed in a while, what's the difference between get and getValue?
21:17 < nuba> get returns the property hash iirc
21:18 <@rizen> get returns the raw value
21:18 <@rizen> getValue returns the raw value if it exists
21:18 <@rizen> otherwise gives you the default
21:18 <@rizen> otherwise gives you the form processed value
21:18 <@rizen> from the current post
21:18 <@rizen> it just adds a little magic
21:18 <@rizen> =)
21:19 <@rizen> and as nuba says, get without a param will also return the property hash
21:19 <+perlDreamer> I'm going to update the POD to say that, since it's a little sparse.
21:19 <@rizen> great!
21:21 <@rizen> ooh
21:21 <@rizen> the form processed value is between raw and default
21:21 <@rizen> methinks
21:21 <+perlDreamer> I don't see any form processing in here.
21:22 <+perlDreamer> it checks get, then it calls the definition sub
21:22 <@rizen> oh that's right...it was removed 
21:23 <@rizen> in my original design for assets it was in there and then i removed it when i created the processPropertiesFromPost method
21:23  * rizen has so much rolling around in head, but no memory left for indexing
21:24 <+perlDreamer> 64 Mb
21:24 <@rizen> 28mb actually...some chips have gone bad over time
21:24 <@rizen> only started with 32mb
21:25 < nuba> that related to abusing from overclocking substances?
21:25 < perlmonkey2> taht isn't bad, look how far Bill got with only 640kb
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21:31 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5605 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm: Update the POD for get and getValue.
21:31 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5606 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm: sideport new POD docs
21:35 <+perlDreamer> this 3 branch thing is getting hard
21:36 <+perlDreamer> get any plumbing done this weekend?
21:44 <@rizen> no
21:44 <@rizen> leaving it until spring
21:45 <@rizen> need to be able to get to the outside of my house to see where some stuff goes
21:45 <@rizen> and it's all buried in snow right now
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21:50 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5607 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm: sideport new POD docs
21:52 < wgGuest95> Hi!
21:52 < wgGuest95> How do I change the layout of the new 7.5.3 gallery? Isn't it templated?  (I'm new here btw ;-)
21:52 <@preaction> yes it's templated, why wouldn't it be?
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21:54 < wgGuest95> because I can't find it.. 
21:54 < wgGuest95> http://beta.webgui.org/demo1203966363_142/home
21:54 <@rizen> perlDreamer: i'm an absolute idiot
21:55 <@preaction> just like any other asset, if you edit the asset's properties, go to the display tab, you see the list of templates being used.
21:55 < wgGuest95> Have erased all standard templates, but none seems to be the "front" template of the gallery...
21:55 < wgGuest95> (erased to make it easier to see the differences)
21:55 <@rizen> i don't know why i never noticed before, but definition() is completely ass backwards...it should just output what it does, and each subsequent method should call it instead of pushing the new data down to the top 
21:56 <@preaction> wgGuest95, the "front" of the gallery is what you configured it to be on the Display tab, by default it's the List Albums view
21:57 <@preaction> uhm... you can't just delete templates and expect this thing to work
21:57 <@preaction> and the templates are still in the trash, which is why they still work
21:58 <@preaction> has anyone run across the WRE's perl modules re-building their Makefile and needing to run build.sh multiple times?
21:59 <@rizen> only if the date is off on the computer i'm working on
21:59 < wgGuest95> just emptied the templates..
21:59 <@preaction> that might explain it, i think the date is off
22:00 < wgGuest95> "Default View" can't be edited...?!?
22:01 <@preaction> of course it can
22:01 < wgGuest95> there are no buttons behind it...
22:01 <@preaction> it's not a template
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22:01 < wgGuest95> I'll make another demo..
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22:10 < wgGuest95> @preaction, mouse is empty :-( will continue tomorrow.. Think I've found out how it works. TNX!
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22:35 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5608 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 
22:35 < CIA-21> WebGUI: Moved the Wiki Help link into i18n so it can be pointed to other sites for
22:35 < CIA-21> WebGUI:  other lanugages.
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22:48 < jdan> Thanks for WRE 0.8.3. I can return to my work tommorow.
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22:59 <+perlDreamer> rizen, do you mean just flattening the structure instead of having multiple arrays of hashes?
23:00 <@rizen> no we need multiple arrays
23:00 <@rizen> so we know which field goes in which table
23:01 <@rizen> i'm just saying that the way it should work is like sub definition { return \%prop };
23:01 <+perlDreamer> and define \%prop as a package variable?
23:01 <@rizen> rather than definition (my $prop = shift; return %{$prop + other stuff}};
23:02 <@rizen> no
23:02 <@rizen> i'm just shortening it for irc
23:02 <@rizen> let me type it out in a paste bin
23:02 <+perlDreamer> thanks, my code abstraction unit is offline
23:02 <+perlDreamer> I had to swap it out for the silicon layout analysis unit
23:02 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5609 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (4 files in 4 dirs): finished sku base class
23:04 <@rizen> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m76ee4d30
23:05 <@rizen> if it were the way it should be then subclass methods would just add to the existing properties hash
23:05 <@rizen> we'd end up with the same data structure
23:06 <@rizen> but we wouldn't be passing the hashref both into and out of the def method at all levels
23:06 <@rizen> it would always just keep coming out
23:06 <@rizen> it really doesn't matter, it works fine. i just hate it when i realize years too late that i did a poor job of designing something
23:12 <+perlDreamer> I hate that feeling, too
23:16 <+perlDreamer> Speaking of which, I'm having another overboard moment
23:16  * diakopter throws perlDreamer overboard
23:16 <+perlDreamer> I'm thinking of having calculate in the ShipDriver class throw an exception
23:17 <+perlDreamer> to force people to override it in the child classes.
23:18 <@rizen> fine by me
23:21 <@rizen> ok i'm an idiot yet again
23:21 <@rizen> i wrote the tests, then i wrote the class
23:21 <+perlDreamer> you didn't use PEX in your plumbing project?
23:21 <@rizen> and never ran the tests to see if it all worked
23:22 <+perlDreamer> eh, we would have found out tomorrow anyway
23:22 <@preaction> oh. did you want me to start testing other branches? like commerce?
23:22 <@preaction> right now it's only 7.4 and trunk
23:22 <+perlDreamer> hey!  cool idea
23:23 <+perlDreamer> Stay out of my HEAD!
23:24 <+MrHairgrease> /me's head just exploded: http://www.shoutfile.com/v/TWdSb0Jj/The_Strangest_Internet_Video_Online_Ever
23:24  * perlDreamer does not have flash at $dayJob, how 'bout a quick summary?
23:25 <+MrHairgrease> take a double dose of lsd and think of the animals
23:25 <+MrHairgrease> nah
23:25 <+MrHairgrease> that doesn't cut it
23:25 <+MrHairgrease> check it out when you're at home
23:27 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5610 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/HTMLForm.pm: remove debugging code
23:27 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5611 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/ShipDriver.pm t/Shop/ShipDriver.t): force the overriding of the calculate class
23:27 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5612 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (4 files in 4 dirs): fixing some bugs
23:27 <+perlDreamer> yet again, the Dutch rock the cultural world
23:27 <+perlDreamer> http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/02/invisible_clothing.html?CMP=OTC-0D6B48984890
23:27 <@rizen> that's is definitely the strangest i've seen
23:27 <@rizen> however, this is the coolest one i've seen in quite a while
23:27 <@rizen> http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2008/02/09/insane-superhuman-french-people/
23:28 <@rizen> shows people doing sholin soccer style moves, but in real life
23:34 <+MrHairgrease> I always thought the french were superhuman...
23:39 < perlmonkey2> templates should always be added via the asset manager and never just insert into the template table?
23:39 <+perlDreamer> the way we do it now is via a package
23:39 <+perlDreamer> there are some scripts for bootstrapping the process
23:40 < perlmonkey2> Okay.  For now though, I'll just use the asset manager.
23:40 <@preaction> right
23:41 <@preaction> build your templates using the existing asset system. put them into a folder under the import node (say, "Survey Templates"), and then when you release them, you make that folder into a package and put it in docs/upgrades/packages-X.X.X
23:50 < wgGuest30> hello
23:50 < wgGuest30> i have a question
23:51 <+perlDreamer> what is it wgGuest30?
23:52 < wgGuest30> i have created a dataform and one of the fields is a select box.  By default if a put the values for it, the property value for each option is the same value that is show in the box
23:52 < wgGuest30> how can i assing one value in the value property and other value to show to the user?
23:52 < wgGuest30> is it posible?
23:53 <@preaction> isn't it value => label?
23:53 <@preaction> i thought that was in the hover help
23:55 <+MrHairgrease> btw wgguest30, the way to get rid of the -leave empty- option in the sqlform is making the field required.
23:55 <+MrHairgrease> dunno about the dataform question
23:55 < wgGuest30> ok, Thanks MrHairgrease
23:56 <+perlDreamer> Nope, it's flat
23:56 <+perlDreamer> displayed option == value
23:56 <+perlDreamer> no way to change it without changing the core code
23:56 <+perlDreamer> see Asset/Wobject/Dataform.pm, lines 80 or so
23:58 < wgGuest30> ok
23:59  * perlmonkey2 is chasing his tail trying to reverse engineer the survey module.
23:59 < perlmonkey2> What is the simplest yet most recent module I can use as example code?
--- Day changed Tue Feb 26 2008
00:00 <+perlDreamer> Asset/Snippet.pm
00:00 < perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: Thanks :)
00:00 <+perlDreamer> then, Asset/Wobject/Article.pm
00:02 < wgGuest30> perlDreamer, but if i change the core code, can exist some risk in the future with an upgrade?
00:02 <@rizen> perlmonkey2: the current survey code is very ugly...you shouldn't waste your time figuring out how it was done...instead write it from scratch, just use it's features as a guideline
00:03 <@rizen> you may also want to look at the wobject tutorial in the wiki
00:04 < perlmonkey2> rizen: I've been over it many times, I'm just trying not to learn stuff that is outdated.  For example, I notice Article is still using @ISA instead of base.  
00:05 <@rizen> yeah many assets are still using that
00:05 <@rizen> but that's a minor tweak
00:08 <+perlDreamer> wgGuest30: definitely
00:10 <+perlDreamer> rizen: I'm an idiot
00:11 <@rizen> ?
00:11 <+perlDreamer> I didn't see far enough forward in making the _buildObj method in ShipDriver
00:11 <+perlDreamer> because it doesn't cover inheritance
00:11 <+perlDreamer> should be an easy tweak, but, sheesh
00:16 < perlmonkey2> So you should have a property for every column in your collateral table?
00:16 <+perlDreamer> basically, yes
00:16 <@preaction> collateral tables no. asset table yes
00:16 <+perlDreamer> although some classes in wG aggregate them all into 1 JSON string
00:16 <+MrHairgrease> if you don't $self->update won't save em
00:17 <@preaction> self->update doesn't do collateral, it does asset properties.
00:17 <+MrHairgrease> i meant the asset table
00:17 <@preaction> yeah, but did perlmonkey2?
00:17 <+MrHairgrease> forgot to put one column in definition.
00:18 <+MrHairgrease> i bet a case of beer that he did
00:18 <+MrHairgrease> =)
00:18 < perlmonkey2> Yes, I meant the asset table :)
00:18 <+MrHairgrease> haha
00:18 <+MrHairgrease> you owe me a case of beer preaction
00:18 <+MrHairgrease> you can hand it over next wuc
00:19 <@preaction> yeah, i'll get you some old milwaukee
00:19 < perlmonkey2> doh
00:19 <+MrHairgrease> what's old milwaukee
00:19 <+MrHairgrease> ?
00:19 <@preaction> the worst of the worst of american beers
00:19 <@preaction> tastes the same going in as it does going out
00:19 <+MrHairgrease> oh that doesn't matter
00:20 <+MrHairgrease> i was planning on sharing it anyway
00:20 <+perlDreamer> so what's the plan for the WUC this year?
00:20 <+perlDreamer> it's only two days long
00:20 <+MrHairgrease> for starters attending i guess
00:20  * perlmonkey2 thought it was three
00:20 <+MrHairgrease> it is two
00:20 <+MrHairgrease> but with three tracks per day
00:21 <@rizen> we changed the format due to feedback we got in our surveys from last year
00:21 <@rizen> it used to be 3x2
00:21 <@rizen> now it's 2x3
00:21 <+perlDreamer> would it really have hurt HTML to define something more advanced than a Text field?  Like have real type checking?
00:21 <@rizen> same amount of content, just over a shorter period
00:22 <+MrHairgrease> so the wuc's transposed?
00:22 <@rizen> indeed
00:22 < perlmonkey2> hah
00:22 <@rizen> we had a bunch of requests asking for the wuc to be divided into beginner, intermediate, and advanced tracks
00:23 <@rizen> and at the same time we had 3 or 4 requests saying that the 3 days was just too long (brain mush)
00:23 <@rizen> so we transposed it
00:23 <@rizen> to accommodate both requests
00:23 <+perlDreamer> that doesn't give me enough time to get sick and worry about my slides
00:24 <+MrHairgrease> pd: the best way to deal with that is by getting your talk scheduled directly after the keynote
00:25 < perlmonkey2> well right on.  Give me a free day to sight see.
00:25 <@rizen> also...a lot of people attend the 2 days worth of workshops before the conference
00:25 <+MrHairgrease> if you go party with the dutch you won't be able to
00:25 <+MrHairgrease> ask Frank =)
00:25 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5613 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Shop/ShipDriver.pm: 
00:25 < CIA-21> WebGUI: Make the private object constructor handle inheritance.
00:25 < CIA-21> WebGUI: Fix a POD typo.
00:25 <@rizen> so in the old format that is 5 days
00:30 <+perlDreamer> curse you Perl, for doing exactly what you were told to do!
00:30 <+perlDreamer> You bring my old, grey head down in shame
00:30 <@preaction> how dare Perl be so presumptuous!
00:30 <+perlDreamer> yes, even down to the grave (Sheol)
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00:32  * perlDreamer remembers to install the DWIM module next time
00:42 <@rizen> perlDreamer, are you doing stuff like this: croak "Need a SKU item." unless (defined $item and $item->isa("WebGUI::Asset::Sku"));
00:43 <@rizen> where you're checking the type of data being passed in as well as that it's defined?
00:43 <@rizen> i'm wondering if i'm going too far
00:43 <+perlDreamer> no, I use ref instead.  that might be old school, though
00:43 <@rizen> then again, i think you said you were actually going to check data structures at one point =)
00:44 <+perlDreamer>     croak "new requires a session object"
00:44 <+perlDreamer>         unless ref $session eq 'WebGUI::Session';
00:44 <@rizen> well ref won't work for me since it will be a subclass of Sku
00:44 <+perlDreamer> good point
00:44 <+perlDreamer> is isa a method, or is it a subroutine call?
00:45 <+perlDreamer> ah, it can be both
00:45 <@rizen> on objects it's a method
00:45 <@rizen> well at least that works
00:45 <@rizen> good to know it can go both ways
00:45 <+perlDreamer> flatRate is done, aside from calculate
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00:46 <@rizen> you are on fire
00:46 <+perlDreamer> I'm 70% idling at $dayJob
00:47 <@rizen> i should have the cart finished by tomorrow afternoon (minus the web methods)
00:47 <@rizen> so we can actually start testing integration points for tax and shipping
00:47 <+perlDreamer> yeah!
00:47 <@rizen> cart is mostly done at this point...one more method to go then i have to do cart item
00:48 <+perlDreamer> we've written 88 tests so far
00:48 <+perlDreamer> not a bad start
00:48 <+perlDreamer> any news from Joeri?
00:48 <@rizen> not bad at all...wondering where joeri and arjan are
00:48 <@rizen> nope
00:48 <+Radix_> Sounds good!
00:49 <+Radix_> I'll be able to write up shipping info for australia post and aussie tax (all +10% GST here)
00:50 <+perlDreamer> http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/living/2008/02/25/me.sbs.where.to.find.cash.cnn
00:51  * Radix_ heads off to work.
00:51 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5614 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (4 files in 4 dirs): 
00:51 < CIA-21> WebGUI: Finish out the FlatRate driver, with tests and i18n.
00:51 < CIA-21> WebGUI: Fix bugs found in ShipDriver by building a driver.
00:52 <@rizen> Radix_ are you offering to fight the good fight and help with commerce dev?
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01:18 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5615 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (3 files in 3 dirs): cart done, moving on to cart item
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01:56 <+perlDreamer> okay, now how do I install this VMware thingy?
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02:33 <@rizen> unzip the files
02:33 <+perlDreamer> done
02:34 <@rizen> then you should be able to import them into the player
02:34 <@rizen> if you're on linux there is a command line tool
02:34 <@rizen> like vmware-install or something
02:34 <@rizen> but there should also be a way to do it in the gui
02:34 <@rizen> i just haven't used a gui before except on mac
02:34 <@rizen> and i know it's different there
02:35 <+perlDreamer> you won't believe this one
02:35 <+perlDreamer> we have an "old" vmware
02:35 <+perlDreamer> it doesn't understand the vmx file
02:36 <@rizen> oh
02:36 <@rizen> yeah it needs a v2 compatible player
02:36 <@rizen> i put that on getwebgui.com
02:36 <@rizen> as a NOTE
02:37 <+Radix-wrk> vmware server is free these days
02:37 <+Radix-wrk> not sure what platforms it runs on tho
02:38 <+Radix-wrk> other than windows I mean
02:38 <+perlDreamer> which version of VMWare starts supporting v2?
02:38 <+perlDreamer> this thing is 5.5.3, release in 2006
02:38 <+perlDreamer> so not that old
02:39 <@rizen> 6
02:39 <@rizen> or vmware fusion v1 on mac
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02:43 <+perlDreamer> there's a converter...
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02:47 <+perlDreamer> not that kind of converter
02:47 <+perlDreamer> more fun tomorrow
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02:57 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5616 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Shop/Ship.pm: add stub for Ship
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03:54 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5617 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Shop/ (CartItems.pm Cart.pm): getting a little closer to having a complete cart
03:54 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5618 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Shop/ (CartItems.pm CartItem.pm): oops, wrong name
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04:50 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5619 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (4 files in 3 dirs): cart should be pretty much working at this point...now need to test and whatnot
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07:31 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5620 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/t/SQL.t: backporting SQL.t fix for not having InnoDB tables
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15:22 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5621 /translations/Dutch/ (10 files in 2 dirs): update_from_translation_server
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16:03 < perlmonkey2> Well /. makes me sad today, that Blackboards ridiculous multiple roles patent has been upheld again.
16:36 -!- SynQ [n=koen@e97024.upc-e.chello.nl] has joined #WebGUI
16:36 < SynQ> heu
16:39 < BartJol> Hi Synq, what's up?
16:43 < SynQ> just loggin in
16:43 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5622 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Asset_RichEdit.pm: update_from_translation_server
16:43 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5623 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Asset_RichEdit.pm: update_from_translation_server
16:46 < perlmonkey2> Does perl best practices cover tabs?
16:53 <@apeiron> Tabs vs. spaces, you mean?
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17:09 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: Templating login, account and the user's profile - Created on 2/26/2008 8:58 am by arjan  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/templating-login-account-and-the-users-profile
17:11 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: Templating login, account and the user's profile - Edited on 2/26/2008 9:00 am by arjan  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/templating-login-account-and-the-users-profile
17:14 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: Templating login, account and the user's profile - Edited on 2/26/2008 9:04 am by arjan  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/templating-login-account-and-the-users-profile
17:19 < AMH_bob> @perlmonkey2: did you refer to http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6629079.html
17:20 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5624 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Asset_RichEdit.pm: update_from_translation_server
17:20 < AMH_bob> patening that should be a crime
17:20 < perlmonkey2> AMH_bob: this /. article: http://news.therecord.com/News/article/312927
17:21 < perlmonkey2> yes
17:21 < perlmonkey2> no, that doesn't look like it
17:23 < perlmonkey2> AMH_bob: This article has a summary of the patent: http://mfeldstein.com/blackboard_patents_the_lms
17:23 < perlmonkey2> Basically it is a patent on multi-roled users in a LMS.
17:24 < perlmonkey2> absolutely mind boggling that this patent stands.
17:24 < perlmonkey2> I personally may have prior art from college apps I wrote.
17:27 < AMH_bob> you could corner every market with patents like this, just change "course" in whatever you do and you've got the networked software coververed!
17:28 <@rizen> it's not mind boggling that patents like this stand
17:28 <@rizen> the US Patent and Trademark office is a joke
17:28 < AMH_bob> why is that?
17:28 < AMH_bob> ahj
17:28 <@rizen> and the US Court system goes with whoever has the most money
17:28 < AMH_bob> :'(
17:29 < AMH_bob> Looks like you'll have to get a competitors software from abroard....
17:30 < AMH_bob> like Europe
17:30 < AMH_bob> :P
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17:30 < wgGuest21> Hi
17:31 < wgGuest21> I have a question about the register system in webgui
17:31 < wgGuest21> How can i do to 
17:35 < wgGuest21> How can i do to when an user log on, the system inmediatly reply a welcome messaje mail?
17:36 < BartJol> on login? or on registration?
17:36 < wgGuest21> Registration
17:37 < BartJol> I think it is in the settings, wait a moment
17:37 < perlmonkey2> How could I remove every instance of a Survey in the system.  I'm about to blow away the current survey module in my instance, and I don't want WG choking when tables schemas change and modules don't line up, just because a previous version contained an old survey.
17:39 < BartJol> wgGuest21 it's in the settings, authentication
17:39 < BartJol> there you can specify and enable a welcoming message
17:39 < BartJol> the immediate is a bit tricky
17:39 < BartJol> because the mail is handled by a workflow
17:39 < BartJol> so it can take a few minutes
17:41 < wgGuest21> How could i change the template?
17:41 < BartJol> what do you want to do exactly
17:41 < BartJol> ?
17:41 <@rizen> perlmonkey2: http://webgui.pastebin.com/d9f84703
17:42 < perlmonkey2> thanks rizen
17:42 <@rizen> np
17:43 < wgGuest21> I would like to, that when an user are registred in my site, the system do a reply a personalized welcome messaje mail
17:43 < BartJol> haha, Dutch translations are up to date again, those Arabs gave me a scare, Ehab probably
17:43 < BartJol> aha
17:44 -!- cap10morgan [n=cap10mor@206-124-6-111.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has quit []
17:44 < perlmonkey2> "SELinux is preventing the /usr/sbin/httpd from using potentially mislabeled files /etc/shadow (shadow_t)."
17:45 <@apeiron> I find it amusing how it's become a competition to keep translations more up to date than other people.
17:45 < perlmonkey2> Why in the world would WG be trying to access my pwd shadow file?
17:45 <@rizen> BartJol did SynQ tell you about the thing i emailed him yesterday?
17:45 < BartJol> wgGuest21 I'm not sure whether there is a template for the welcoming message
17:46 < BartJol> rizen refresh my memory, I didn't work yesterday and was having a hangover
17:46 -!- lisette [n=liraos@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has joined #webgui
17:46 < lisette> hello
17:46 < BartJol> hi
17:46 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5625 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Asset_RichEdit.pm: update_from_translation_server
17:46 <@rizen> wgGuest21 see Settings > Messaging
17:46 < BartJol> arg, I'm stupid
17:46 < lisette> how to do a insert with a databaselink?
17:46 < lisette> in a macro
17:47 <@rizen> BartJol it was that i made a change to the help system in 7.5 so that the url to wiki.webgui.org is now contained in i18n rather than in the code, so you guys can point the dutch help to www.webgui-help.nl rather than wiki.webgui.org
17:47 < BartJol> apeiron well if you make it a sport, it becomes a kind of fun...
17:47 <@apeiron> BartJol, So it seems. :)
17:47 < BartJol> he didn't tell me at all
17:48 < BartJol> but that's very nice !
17:48 <@rizen> you'll be able to make the change starting with 7.5.4
17:48 <@rizen> anyway..i thought that would be good for the various international communities out there
17:48 < BartJol> ah, do have to remember that
17:48 < BartJol> thanks
17:49 <@rizen> on friday (or any point after friday) go into the translation server and edit the "WebGUI" namespace. and find the "external help" label
17:49 <@rizen> that's the one you want to edit
17:49 < BartJol> ok, I'' make a note of that in my calender
17:49 <@rizen> oh and it's a new label, so it won't be easy to miss
17:50 < lisette> ?
17:50 < BartJol> well, the nice colours help
17:50 < lisette>  WebGUI::SQL::ResultSet->prepare ?
17:52 < BartJol> hi lisette, you're writing a macro?
17:52 <@rizen> BartJol has the i18n server gotten better lately with the improvements we've made?
17:52 < BartJol> I think so
17:52 < BartJol> nice to see the svn commit appear, that's really good
17:53 < lisette> yes
17:53 < BartJol> the direct download buttons are also nice
17:53 < ckotil> anyone ever seen 'format a4 is redefined' when running search.pl --indexall ?
17:53 <@rizen> nuba i think had the best idea...to make the namespace list scroll down to where you left off after each edit
17:53 < BartJol> ah, yes, i noticed that too, that saves my arms
17:53 <@rizen> ckotil no..but that is probably related to one of your indexer plugins
17:53 < BartJol> thanks nuba
17:54 < ckotil> could be.
17:54 <@rizen> a4 is a page format
17:54 < BartJol> lisette and you wanna have somethiing from the db to compare a value?
17:54 < BartJol> are to print?
17:54 <@rizen> so maybe you have a pdf or something that's in a4 legal format
17:54 < ckotil> sounds plausible. thanks
17:54 < BartJol> better to look whether you can request for it via the API
17:55 < lisette> i need insert a value in othe database, and i have a $dblink
17:55 < BartJol> aha
17:55 < BartJol> I have that somewhere
17:55 < ckotil> i have lots of pdf's now to index since turning webgui into a document repository inline with my websites.
17:56 < BartJol> mmm only have the code to put a value in the db?
17:56 < BartJol> wanna have?
17:56 < lisette> i have a value in a variable
17:56 < BartJol> that's no problem
17:57 < BartJol> put a question mark on the place where you want your variable: 
17:57 < BartJol> $session->db->write("update users set karma=karma+(?) where userId=(?)",[$karmaraise,$user]);
17:57 < BartJol> like that
17:57 < BartJol> only have to make a new database link
17:57 < BartJol> but I think, that can be doen via the api
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18:00 < lisette> mmm but i don't need modified the database of webgui, is other database, an i do the database link in the macro
18:00 < BartJol>  $dbLink = WebGUI::DatabaseLink->new($session,$databaseLinkId);
18:00 < lisette> yes
18:00 -!- crythia1 [n=gyoung@fl-69-68-148-96.sta.embarqhsd.net] has left #webgui []
18:00 < lisette> and i need insert in this database
18:00 < lisette> how to do?
18:01 < lisette>  WebGUI::SQL::ResultSet->prepare?
18:01 <@rizen> $dblink->db->write($sql, [ $param ]);
18:01 < lisette> thanks
18:02 <@rizen> lisette
18:02 <@rizen> http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds/7.4.25-stable/api/
18:02 <@rizen> there you can find out how to use all the modules in webgui
18:02 < BartJol> well try replace $session->db-> with $dbLink-> and see whether that works
18:02 < BartJol> ah
18:02 < BartJol> rizen is too fast for me
18:17 -!- wgGuest21 [n=wgGuest2@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has quit []
18:19 < perlmonkey2> 23 attempts by httpd to access /etc/shadow and WG is not functioning, but gives no error message.  I'm guessing WG is broke because selinux is stopping it from accessing the password shadow, but why would it need to touch the shadow file?
18:20 <@rizen> it wouldn't
18:20 <@rizen> webgui doesn't do that
18:20  * perlmonkey2 is a little freaked out
18:21 < perlmonkey2> svn update shows my wg files perfectly match the repos.
18:29 -!- BartJol [n=plainstu@194.171.50.123] has left #webgui []
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18:52 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ
18:56  * rizen is very angry with perlDreamer
18:56 <+perlDreamer> okay
18:56 <+perlDreamer> what did I do this time?
18:57 <+perlDreamer> It's hard to sound contrite on IRC
18:57 <@rizen> you're making me look bad
18:57 <@rizen> you've committed more code to commerce than i have
18:57 <@rizen> =)
18:58 <+perlDreamer> You own your own business, get published in journals and websites and _I'm_ making you look bad?
18:58 <@rizen> i'm working hard to catch up though
18:58 <+perlDreamer> Blame it on Tavis
18:58 <@rizen> i just have to razz you a little
18:58 <@rizen> it's fun
18:59 <+perlDreamer> I'll just put out the same volume of code, but put bugs in it.
18:59 <+perlDreamer> that way you can look thoughtful and careful
19:00 < perlmonkey2> ah...silly question, but where are the passwords stored?  I tried a fresh install of wg, but must have skipped a step because I didn't get the first time login new site steps.
19:00 <+perlDreamer> auth table
19:00 <+perlDreamer> called identifeir
19:01 <@rizen> or do: insert into settings values ('specialState','init');
19:01 <@rizen> that will get you your startup wizard again
19:02 < perlmonkey2> hmm....well I deleted the pwd form userid 3 and trying to log in as admin without a pwd still isn't working.
19:02 < perlmonkey2> strange that 123qwe didn't work
19:02 <@rizen> you can't login without a password
19:02 < perlmonkey2> ut oh
19:03 <@rizen> webgui's smarter than that
19:03 <@rizen> =)
19:03 < perlmonkey2> do you use the crypt command?
19:03 <+perlDreamer> it's an base64, MD5
19:03 <@rizen> no it's an md5 hash
19:03 <+perlDreamer> you can pull it from the create.sql file to replace it in the db
19:03 <@rizen> or do the init script again
19:03 < perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: then it should have been 123qwe....strange
19:03 <@rizen> as stated above
19:08 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui
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19:09 < perlmonkey2> the survey system is doomed.  I have the next two weeks to devote just to it, but I made little progress yesterday and today I'm chasing my tail with linux/wg/selinux issues.
19:09 <@rizen> don't panic
19:09 <@rizen> go back to your crap box...cuz at least it worked
19:10 <@rizen> everything will work out just fine
19:10 <@rizen> you should never switch hardware or OS mid-dev...i've learned that many times over through the years
19:12  * perlmonkey2 takes a deep breath.
19:12 -!- GooeyOfSteel [n=puppetma@hq.imaterial.org] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
19:12 -!- nuba [n=nuba@hq.imaterial.org] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
19:14  * perlDreamer recommends alternate nostril breathing
19:14  * rizen is feeling pretty happy about ye olde croak about now
19:14 <+perlDreamer> croak?
19:16 <@rizen> throwing errors
19:16 <@rizen> croak
19:16 <+perlDreamer> yeah
19:16 <+perlDreamer> eval or else :)
19:16 <@rizen> i keep screwing up all over the place because WebGUI::Shop::CartItem's constructors need a WebGUI::Shop::Cart object rather than a WebGUI::Session object
19:16 <@rizen> and my croaks are telling me the right thing
19:17 <+perlDreamer> at first I wasn't really in love with the idea, but making those mistakes myself have helped educate me
19:17 <+perlDreamer> bug--
19:20 <+perlDreamer> about half of my test code looks like eval { some_statement }; like ($@, qr/some error/, 'check for this');
19:20 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5626 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (4 files in 2 dirs): tests are getting closer to working
19:23 <+perlDreamer> do you think Shop::Ship needs a factory-style method?  it has new and create, but no way to get rid of stuff.
19:24 <@rizen> no way to get rid of stuff? what would it get rid of?
19:24 <+perlDreamer> say that I wanted to delete a configured ShipDriver
19:24 <+perlDreamer> I guess it could be disabled, that would do almost the same thing
19:24 <@rizen> the ship driver has that though right?
19:25 <+perlDreamer> yes
19:25 <@rizen> so why would the manager need it?
19:25 <@rizen> unless you wanted to add a method to delete all ship drivers or something
19:25 <+perlDreamer> no
19:26 <@rizen> like in WebGUI::Shop::Cart there is an empty() and a delete() method, but that removes everything from the cart and/or deletes the cart...each WebGUI::Shop::CartItem has the remove() method to get rid of the individual item
19:28 <+perlDreamer> w.r.t Ship Drivers, that sounds like a dangerous button to me, because with 1 click you can destroy all your site's shipping data.
19:31 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
19:32 -!- nuba [n=nuba@hq.imaterial.org] has joined #webgui
19:35 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui
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19:36 -!- GooeyOfSteel [n=puppetma@hq.imaterial.org] has joined #webgui
19:36 < GooeyOfSteel> beep
19:37 <@rizen> yeah i agree pd
19:38 <@rizen> why is gooeyofsteel beeping
19:38 < nuba> guess hess back and happy about that...
19:38 < nuba> -s
19:39 < perlmonkey2> someone should put a "# vim:ft=perl" at the top of the skeletons :)
19:40 < perlmonkey2> so vim views them as perl
19:40 <+MrHairgrease> my vim detects perl files by extension
19:41 <+MrHairgrease> and since you never edit a skeleton directly
19:41 <+MrHairgrease> it would be useless to put that in
19:42 -!- lrobinson [n=luke@lrobinson2.vm.bytemark.co.uk] has quit ["ircII EPIC4-2.6 -- Are we there yet?"]
19:45 < perlmonkey2> But I have the skeleton open for reference, so it is nice to have it high lighted.
19:50 <@rizen> pm2 should know where to post rfe's
19:59 <+perlDreamer> small rfe's with patches are often added the same day they're approved
20:01 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui
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20:06 < perlmonkey2> Error loading WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Survey! - Unknown error
20:06 < perlmonkey2> I'm just out of luck: http://webgui.pastebin.com/d36fcec8b
20:07 <+perlDreamer> you're a vim user?
20:07 <+MrHairgrease> you see that appearing in your webgui.log?
20:07 <+perlDreamer> try :!perl -wc -I /data/WebGUI/lib %
20:08 < perlmonkey2> MrHairgrease: yes
20:08 <+MrHairgrease> perlDreamer everyone with common sense is a vim user =)
20:08 <+perlDreamer> that's dash capital eye :)
20:08 <+MrHairgrease> never seen that
20:08 <+MrHairgrease> the unkonw error error that is
20:08 <+perlDreamer> it's how to syntax check a file
20:08 < perlmonkey2> No, that is in httpd/error.log
20:08 <@rizen> or just go to the lib folder and type perl -c WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey.pm
20:08 <+perlDreamer> for tests, you use :!perl -wc -I /data/WebGUI/lib -I /data/WebGUI/t/lib %
20:09 < perlmonkey2> ahah, thanks!
20:09  * perlmonkey2 should be recording his learning experiences in a wiki/blog somewhere.
20:10 <+MrHairgrease> found the problem?
20:10  * perlmonkey2 would be if his webgui instance wasn't also his dev instance and contantly broken :)
20:10 < perlmonkey2> yes
20:10 <+perlDreamer> what is it?
20:11 <+MrHairgrease> syntax prolly
20:11 < perlmonkey2> I'd say what it was, but then you would all point and laugh at me (bareword WebGUI::Asset::Wobject not allowed) in my use base.
20:11 <+perlDreamer> oh no, I wouldn't laugh
20:11 <+perlDreamer> I read over that 3 times and never saw it
20:11 < perlmonkey2> just mock :P
20:11 <@rizen> i would: hahahahahaahahahahah 
20:12 < perlmonkey2> heh
20:12 <+perlDreamer> people only laugh at you if you break webgui
20:12  * MrHairgrease laughs about everything
20:12 <@rizen> people are laughing at me all day long
20:12 <+perlDreamer> or crying
20:12 <+perlDreamer> because there's nothing better than listening to the lamentations of the women and children
20:13 <+perlDreamer> preaction: which movie?
20:13 <@preaction> Conan the Barbarian?
20:13 <+perlDreamer> yup
20:13 <+perlDreamer> It's good to see the psychic link is still up
20:14 <@rizen> you forgot, "to watch your enemies driven before you"
20:14 <@preaction> "Conan! What is the greatest thing in life?" "CRUSH YOUR ENEMIES! SEE THEM DRIVEN BEFORE YOU! AND HEAR THE LAMENTATION OF THEIR WOMEN!"
20:14 <+perlDreamer> and don't worry about the tests not showing up on the smoke test, they'll show up tomorrow
20:22 <@rizen> Can you get her? Yeah Andy, I don't have her shoved down my pants right now, I'm sorry to say. But I'll get her.
20:23 <@rizen> out of context, it's just so dirty
20:23 <@preaction> Rita Hayworth!
20:24 <@preaction> and the Shawshank Redemption
20:26 <@rizen> alright pd, before we get too far in commerce i'm thinking we should investigate throwing error objects not just throwing errors
20:26 <@rizen> what do you think?
20:31 <@preaction> yes, yes, oh god yes?
20:31 <@preaction> oh. pD not pA
20:31  * perlmonkey2 has always liked the idea of exception objects
20:32 <+perlDreamer> I'm cool with objects
20:32 <+perlDreamer> my WGBP book is at home though, what's the helper module for doing that?
20:35 <+perlDreamer> Is it Exception::Class?
20:36 <@preaction> sounds right
20:36 <+perlDreamer> so, I've been wondering, are you pre-action, or p-reaction?
20:37 <@preaction> most important distinction you can make is: Error with Loading v. Not Found
20:37 <@preaction> Pre-action
20:37 <@preaction> perlbot preaction
20:37 < perlbot> for every action there is a preaction
20:38 <@rizen> i think i'd rather investigate the exception objects on our own
20:38 <@rizen> rather than go with what they recommend blindly
20:38 <@rizen> cuz their recommendation for inside out objects was not good
20:38 <+perlDreamer> gotcha, blinders off :)
20:38 <+perlDreamer> http://search.cpan.org/search?m=all&q=exception&s=1
20:39 <@preaction> oh, we're not doing inside-out objects anymore? i just got the hang of them...
20:39 <@rizen> i still don't exactly understand how it works either...i've played a bit, but it seems like a huge amount of work to use them
20:39 <@rizen> no we are preaction
20:39 <@preaction> k
20:39 <@rizen> we're just not using their recommended package for them
20:39 <@rizen> we're using Class::InsideOut
20:40 <@preaction> i think exception objects are as easy as: if (notfound) { die WebGUI::Exception->notFound( $id ); }
20:40 <@preaction> i suppose, it's another interface to be designed
20:41 <+perlDreamer> yeah, would each class define its own exceptions?  There are some that we should inherit (like missing session object)
20:42 <@rizen> that's the part that makes more work
20:42 <@rizen> we have to define a bunch of exception classes
20:42 <@preaction> i would think invalidArguments would be one exception, then you'd add text about which argument was invalid and what it should be
20:43 <@rizen> sure
20:43 <@rizen> but there's lots of other stuff that we're checking for
20:43 <@preaction> i'd say start off with a couple useful ones, ones that can be handled by the caller, and dump the rest under "fatal" or "unrecoverable"
20:43 <@rizen> like in the cart did you try to add too many to the cart
20:44 <+perlDreamer> or in ShipDriver->new trying to call a driver by id that does not exist
20:44 <@rizen> object didn't exist could be a general one...and subclass it if you need to...but regardless that is one more we'll need
20:45 <@preaction> might be able to get away with defining WebGUI::Exception::Fatal and WebGUI::Exception::Error, then, if necessary, further granulation for special types of errors
20:45 <@preaction> or something similar
20:45 <@preaction> Fatal::NotFound Error::Cart::InvalidItem
20:45 <@preaction> ew... now it's getting complicated
20:46 <+perlDreamer> how about, more generally, NotFound (fetch from db, fetch from filesystem)
20:47 <+perlDreamer> InvalidItem (bad child)
20:47 <+perlDreamer> also, Exception::Class is looking pretty good.
20:47 <+perlDreamer> Exception:Simple uses Moose
20:47 <@rizen> fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck
20:47 <@rizen> pd could use a second opinion
20:47 <@rizen> i'm chasing my own tail here
20:47 <+perlDreamer> stop fucking :)
20:48 <+perlDreamer> what's up?
20:48 <@rizen> just checked in again, update
20:48 <@rizen> then run Cart.t
20:48 <@rizen> i can't figure out what i'm doing wrong, but incrementing quantity doesn't work
20:49 <@rizen> been looking at this for 2 hours now
20:50 <@rizen> and it's super basic
20:50 <@rizen> apparently the fucks helped
20:50 <@rizen> just figured it out
20:51 <+perlDreamer> what is it?
20:51 <@rizen> my $id = $self
20:51 <@rizen> rather than 
20:51 <@rizen> my $id = id $self
20:51 <+perlDreamer> id $self
20:51 <+perlDreamer> oh
20:52 <@rizen> man that was frustrating
20:52 <@rizen> i hate spinning my wheels on small stuff
20:52 <+perlDreamer> breaking encapsulation is dangerous, even inside the class
20:52 <@rizen> anyway, the cart is now complete
20:53 <@rizen> sometimes you sound like you're speaking another language
20:53 <+perlDreamer> Cuando la encapsulacion es roto, crece el peligro
20:53 <@rizen> exactly
20:54 <@rizen> did i tell you i'm operating with a 25% packet loss
20:54 <+perlDreamer> No.
20:54 <+perlDreamer> I'l
20:54 <+perlDreamer> l t
20:54 <+perlDreamer> ry 
20:54 <+perlDreamer> to 
20:54 <+perlDreamer> use
20:54 <+perlDreamer> onl
20:54 <+perlDreamer> y 3
20:54 <@rizen> i'm suprised i can even stay connected to irc
20:54 <+perlDreamer> let
20:54 <+perlDreamer> ter
20:54 <+perlDreamer> s
20:54 <+perlDreamer> Sounds like another plumbing problem
21:02 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5627 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (3 files in 2 dirs): very close to working
21:02 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5628 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Shop/CartItem.pm: fixed last problem. cart works !!!!
21:04 <@rizen> after looking at it, i think you're right Exception::Class is the way to go
21:09 <@rizen> so now the question is do we actually create exception modules
21:09 <@rizen> or just do exceptions inline in the class
21:09 <@rizen> like the documentation shows
21:09  * perlmonkey2 went to make more coffee and the water made my eyes tear with the smell of chlorine.  So sad.
21:12  * perlDreamer is at the gym
21:14 < perlmonkey2> Can I make an autogenerate form go to another url upon save?
21:14 < perlmonkey2> like www_editSurvye ?
21:14 <@rizen> yes put a hidden field in there
21:14 <@rizen> called "proceed" 
21:14 < perlmonkey2> ahah, cool
21:15 < perlmonkey2> I'm guessing you mean in the definition?
21:15 < perlmonkey2> or in the the properties/
21:15 <@preaction> the value is the www_ sub that will be gone to (same as func=). there are some special values, see www_editSave for example)
21:15 <@preaction> no. just the form, getEditForm
21:15 <@rizen> if this is for the default edit form then yes in the definition
21:16 <@preaction> why? then he'd need a column in the asset table, no?
21:16 <@rizen> nope
21:16 <@rizen> you can override that
21:16 <@rizen> looking up the thing now
21:16 < perlmonkey2> it is in the definition not properities
21:17 < perlmonkey2> I thought only properties needed columns in the table.
21:18 <@rizen> it's in the properties part of the definition
21:18 <@rizen> and add noFormPost=>1 to the definition of that property
21:18 < perlmonkey2> okay
21:19 < perlmonkey2> so "editForward => {proceed=>'editSurvey',noFormPost=>1}"
21:20 < perlmonkey2> and probably type=>'hidden'
21:21 <@preaction> no, proceed => { type => 'hidden', value => 'editSurvey', noFormPost => 1 }, <-- should work
21:21 < perlmonkey2> ah-hah
21:21 < perlmonkey2> thanks
21:23 < perlmonkey2> I'm afraid to commit anything since if I change a table schema, will WG break if there is a versioned instance of an asset with the old def?
21:25 <@preaction> no
21:25 <@preaction> as long as the new column exists, and the definition is correct, the old versions of the asset will be instanciated fine
21:25 <@preaction> that's how we add new templates / data to existing assets during upgrade scripts
21:26 < perlmonkey2> got it
21:27  * rizen is going offline for cable guy shortly will be back
21:27 < perlmonkey2> good luck
21:27 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []
21:29 < perlmonkey2> type=>'hidden' didn't hide it from the autogenerate
21:30 < perlmonkey2> proceed => {                value       => "editSurvey",                noFormPost  => 1,                type        => 'hidden',            }, shows a text field with a default value of editSurvey
21:30 <@preaction> fieldType then
21:31 <+MrHairgrease> it is fieldType indeed
21:31 < perlmonkey2> DOH
21:36 < perlmonkey2> DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Unknown column 'proceed' in 'field list' at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL/ResultSet.pm line 135.
21:36 < perlmonkey2> noFormPost  => 1,
21:37 < perlmonkey2> Should I give up on autogenerate and build a tabform for the new asset page?
21:37 <@preaction> change it to noForm and see
21:37 <@preaction> otherwise, there's an easy way to do it without having to build the whole thing yourself
21:38 <+MrHairgrease> no
21:38 <+MrHairgrease> noFormPost should work
21:38 <+MrHairgrease> can you paste your entire module in the pastebin?
21:39 < perlmonkey2> j/s, but this version has noFomr
21:39 <@preaction> it's not working due to changes in Asset->update, it sets all columns to their default value if they are not passed into the sub and they don't already have a true-like value in a previous revision
21:40 <@preaction> that change makes it possible to define only those columns which you deem necessary when building an asset using code (with Asset->addChild( { props } )
21:40 < perlmonkey2> http://pastebin.com/d1c0af340
21:41 <+MrHairgrease> pm it should be noFormPost, even if that doesn't work =)
21:41 <+MrHairgrease> noForm is just wrong
21:42 <@preaction> here's what you'll have to do: remove that thing from the definition, it won't work
21:42 <@preaction> two: override getEditForm to call the superclass getEditForm, grab the WebGUI::TabForm from that, and add the proceed hidden field to that tabform
21:42 <+MrHairgrease> a workaround would be this:
21:42 <+MrHairgrease> well what preacxtion says
21:43 <@preaction> sub getEditForm { my $self = shift; my $tabform = $self->SUPER::getEditForm(@_); $tabform->getTab("properties")->hidden( properties here ); return $tabform; }
21:43 < perlmonkey2> ah......that is very convoluted.
21:43 <+MrHairgrease> no it isn't
21:43 < perlmonkey2> Wouldn't it be cleaner to just create my own tabform?
21:44 <+MrHairgrease> it looks convoluted b/c irc doesn't format it
21:44 <@preaction> good lord, do you want to add every single thing in your definition, and all your superclasses definitions? do you want to edit your getEditForm every time the Asset->definition changes?
21:44 < perlmonkey2> Okay, I'll just make sure to document it so it is clear to any dummies like me who follow, what is going on.
21:44 <+MrHairgrease> it regularly use autogenerate icm getEditForm for specific complex forms that just make definition unreadable
21:44 <@preaction> it's simple OO, inheritence and extending
21:46 < perlmonkey2> Right, but WG has a ton of libraries with a lot of inheritence going on.  Hard for noobs to get it all in their heads.
21:47 < perlmonkey2> I'm guessing I need all three values from the hash?
21:47 <@apeiron> Hmm. Maybe some kind of class diagram would help?
21:48 <@apeiron> Something that you can look at and say "Okay, this particular wG class inherits from this, and this inherits from this, so it has these methods, and these methods..."
21:48 < perlmonkey2> Yay, UML (not)
21:49 <+MrHairgrease> pm: http://pastebin.com/m593ca3ad
21:49 <@apeiron> perlmonkey2, I meant something mortals can understand. :D
21:49 < perlmonkey2> That's what I have :)
21:50 < perlmonkey2> well, but with noFormPost
21:50 <+MrHairgrease> that's not necessary
21:50 <+MrHairgrease> and don't forget to remove the whole proceed thingy from the definition
21:51 <+MrHairgrease> preaction: noFormPost not working would be a bug, right?
21:52 <@preaction> no, noFormPost is working, it's Asset->update that's setting "proceed" to its defaultValue. the alternative is that update doesn't set all things to their default values
21:52 <+MrHairgrease> ok, so what's noFormPost good for then?
21:53 <@preaction> making sure a column isn't automatically processed by Asset.pm->processPropertiesFromFormPost
21:55 <@preaction> the column itself has to exist, yes, but it won't be set unless you explicitly set it
21:55 <+MrHairgrease> yeah, i understand
21:56 <+MrHairgrease> but why require the column
21:56 <+MrHairgrease> ?
21:57 <@preaction> it's a side-effect of a change to Asset.pm->update to make it easier for a developer to use addChild
21:57 <+MrHairgrease> oh well
21:57 <+MrHairgrease> it's easy enough to work around, but it still feels weird
21:57 <+MrHairgrease> anyway, i'm gonna grab some food
21:57 <+MrHairgrease> later
21:58 -!- MrHairgrease is now known as MrAfkGrease
21:59 <@preaction> eh, i've always just assumed anything in the definition properties is a column in the database
22:00 < perlmonkey2> Did I mess up and if proceed is going to editSurvey then my sub has to be www_editSurvey as anything without a www_ can't be redirected to in a url?
22:01 <@preaction> right
22:01 < perlmonkey2> cool
22:01 <@preaction> www_ is accessible as a page, nothing else
22:02 < perlmonkey2> I'm setting $out = 'testing text'; and not seeing that.
22:03 < perlmonkey2> doens't look like www_editSurvey is getting redirected to.
22:03 < perlmonkey2> looks like the default templateId is being shown.
22:04 <+MrAfkGrease> chcek your webgui log
22:04 <+MrAfkGrease> if something fucks up you usually get the view method shown
22:05 <+MrAfkGrease> and that is also shown if your func=blabla doesn't return anything btw
22:05 -!- MrAfkGrease is now known as MrReallyAfkGreas
22:08 < perlmonkey2> wtf, my last entry in webgui.log is 45 minutes ago.
22:08  * perlmonkey2 must be retarded cause it can't be this hard.
22:09 -!- estiven [n=erestrep@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has joined #webgui
22:11 <@preaction> WebGUI/etc/log.conf <- see where your webgui.log is going. it might be /var/log/webgui.log
22:13 < perlmonkey2> that is where it is going.
22:13 < perlmonkey2> and spectre just wrote to it.
22:13 < perlmonkey2> But I'm not seeing antyhing else.
22:14 < perlmonkey2> anything I can do to force a write to the logs just ot make sure?
22:15 <@preaction> $self->session->errorHandler->warn("Hi!");
22:15 <@preaction> make sure the LogLevel is set to something higher than Error, like WARN or DEBUG or INFO
22:24 < perlmonkey2> Couldn't call method editSave on asset for url: home Root cause: Can't locate object method "process" via package "PBtmpl0000000000000062" (perhaps you forgot to load "PBtmpl0000000000000062"?) at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm line 2010.
22:24 < perlmonkey2> I don't know if that comes from this or not: my $out = $self->processTemplate(\%var,undef,$self->getValue("surveyEditTemplateId"));
22:25 <@preaction> most likely. the third argument to processTemplate() is an already instanciated template object
22:25 <@preaction> the second argument is a templateId
22:25 -!- jdan [n=jdan@inet20909ng-3.eranet.pl] has joined #webgui
22:25 < perlmonkey2> okay, then that is the mistake.  Whew, that was painful.
22:29 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui
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22:29 <@preaction> eh. every problem has a solution, and every solution teaches about problems
22:29 < perlmonkey2> If a properties has a defaultvalue of a template that exists, shouldn't I be able to ->getValue?
22:30 < perlmonkey2> and that be a instantiated template that processTemplate will take as a third arguement?
22:30 < perlmonkey2> I see that in a lot of other code.
22:31 <@preaction> no. the third argument that looks like $self->{_viewTemplate} is the template from sub prepareView, already instantiated and prepared
22:31 <@preaction> getValue only returns the exact value from the template
22:31 <@preaction> so either you're reading it wrong, or the code you're reading is wrong
22:32 < perlmonkey2> Matrix.pm doesn't seem to instantiate compareTemplateId anywhere 
22:32 < jdan> I need some advice. How is the best way to make blog for registered users in WebGUI? What wobjects are the best, etc. 
22:32 < perlmonkey2> Collaboration
22:33 <@preaction> collaboration system, yes
22:34 < jdan> Does Collaboration work without administrative access? I know many wobjects, but not Collaboration
22:34 < perlmonkey2> Yes, you can set which groups have access to do whatever.
22:34 < perlmonkey2> read, edit
22:34 <@preaction> add posts, add threads
22:34 < jdan> ok, thanks
22:37 < perlmonkey2> So I will have to manually instantiate any template identified in the properties?
22:37 <+perlDreamer> yes
22:37 <@preaction> no
22:37 <@preaction> $self->processTemplate( $var, $templateId ); instanciates and processes all in one go
22:37 < perlmonkey2> okay, that was going to be my next question...thanks
22:38 <@preaction> don't forget to encase that inside the style template: return $self->processStyle( $self->processTemplate( $var, $templateId ) );
22:38 < perlmonkey2> But I haven't seen that in any of the other modules?
22:39 <@preaction> the view method already has a style template, any www_ methods that you want the style template around need to have processStyle
22:39 <+perlDreamer> most of the other modules (the ones I mentioned yesterday), don't have multiple editing screens
22:39 <@apeiron> Anything I need to know before committing the new YUI?
22:39 <@preaction> the GalleryAlbum is a good example for this
22:39 <@apeiron> Finally got the bugs I saw worked out of the new textarea resizing thing.
22:41 <@preaction> you figured out the ie6 reflow thing?
22:42 <@apeiron> ack, hm
22:43 <@apeiron> I was looking at a different issue, namely, that textarea fields for assets weren't being updated on www_editSave. :)
22:43 <@preaction> eh, i'd still say commit it and work out that problem later
22:43 <@preaction> it works, it just looks weird
22:44 <@apeiron> rizen had told me I can commit it with that issue and then fix it afterwards.
22:45 <@apeiron> Testing it again in IE6 just to see if it's still there.
22:45 <@rizen> yup
22:45 <@preaction> right, that's what i'm suggesting too
22:45 <@rizen> but if you don't fix it in a reasonable amount of time then i will send Guido to your house with a baseball bat
22:45 <@preaction> the big JS things i'd make sure still works: Calendar Event Edit, Calendar Edit Feeds
22:45 <@apeiron> Guido the python guy?
22:45 <@preaction> Luca Brasi
22:49 <@apeiron> I hate Web browsers.
22:49 <@apeiron> (can I get that as an epithet?)
22:49 <@rizen> guido the internet tough guy: http://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/internet-tough-guy.png
22:50 <@apeiron> Add a calendar and it's not displaying anything by default in IE when you view its parent page layout. Works fine in FF.
22:51 <@apeiron> (no errors, either, of course)
22:52 < perlmonkey2> woohoo, okay, now that I have some basic wg skillz to make things happen, the only thing left to decide before importing my template, is to wrap it in processStyle or not?  Without it, there is a lot more space to drag stuff around.  But with it, the user gets to play "inside" his webgui install.
22:53 < perlmonkey2> I'm leaning towards not using processStyle as it gives the user more room, and less buttons to push on tha tmight ruin their ajax session.
22:54 <@preaction> processStyle probably isn't necessary on the editSurvey page, but if there are other pages (like reports or anything), those will need it
22:55 <@rizen> If you don't use processStyle, be sure to provide them a link to get out of the editor without saving.
22:55 < perlmonkey2> Okay.
22:55 <@apeiron> Hmm, now that I look at it, it works that way on the demo site, too.
22:56 <@apeiron> Compare http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1204058107_200/home with IE6 and FF. Interesting.
22:56 < perlmonkey2> Ah, what URL will the ajax calls be made to?  "home/?func=updateAJAXWhatever;class=WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Survey"
22:57 <@preaction> perlmonkey2, they'll be made whereever you want them to, but most likely "surveyUrl"
22:57 <@rizen> no
22:57 <@rizen> preaction is right
22:57 <@rizen> and you'll do that like this
22:58 <@rizen> $self->getUrl("func=mymethod");
22:58 <@rizen> my $url = $self->getUrl("func=mymethod");
22:59 < perlmonkey2> $var{'updateQuestionsPostback'} = $self->getUrl("func=www_updateQuestions");?
22:59 <@rizen> no www_
22:59 < perlmonkey2> okay
22:59 <@rizen> but other than that yes
22:59 <+perlDreamer> func=updateQuzstions
22:59 < perlmonkey2> sweet!
23:00 < perlmonkey2> So I'm guessing my .js will need to be templates so that they always have the correct urls in them.
23:01 < perlmonkey2> or else make them hidden params in the html and have the .js grab the urls from there.
23:02 <@preaction> no. your best bet would be <form action="post"><input type="hidden" name="func" value="whatever"/>
23:02 <@preaction> without a URL, it will post back to the URL the user is on
23:02 <@preaction> and the func=editSurvey will always be at the survey's URL
23:03 <@apeiron> Hmm. Is it a known bug that removing feeds from calendars doesn't actually do the remove with IE6?
23:03  * apeiron goes and looks.
23:03 <@rizen> pm2: you should make most of your javascript into classes that can just exist in /extras
23:03 <@rizen> and then make your templates instantiate those classes and pass the urls and other parameters in at object creation time
23:04 < perlmonkey2> rizen: Okay, that seems easy, so I like it.
23:05 < perlmonkey2> in the template  have <script>var survey = new Survey({addSurvey=<tmpl var=addSurvey> ...});</script> //if I got the syntanx even remotely correct.
23:05 <+perlDreamer> Did the cable guy find your lost packets, rizen?
23:06 <@rizen> nope
23:06 <@rizen> he's sending out another guy to search for them
23:06 <@rizen> he knows they're not in my house
23:06 <@rizen> he checked all the closets and everything
23:06 <+perlDreamer> maybe they got washed away when the plumbing broke?
23:06 <@rizen> he thinks they might be on the street
23:07 < perlmonkey2> My neighbors tree grew through my cable
23:08 < perlmonkey2> now it runs above ground down my fence line until they can bring out a trench digger.
23:09 <+perlDreamer> fiber is much better
23:09 <+perlDreamer> if the power goes out, you just hook up a flashlight and turn it on and off fast
23:09 <@apeiron> Or you just use your battery backups. :)
23:09 <@rizen> the problem is that i live in an old part of town right down near the capitol...so i'm sure the cabling hasn't been updated for 100 years
23:10 <@rizen> in fact, the neighborhood i live in is called "First Settlement", because the first house in madison was built only 2 blocks from here.
23:10  * perlDreamer starts day dreaming about TeddyWedgers again
23:10 <+perlDreamer> Portland is barbaric, no known pastie restaurants in the area
23:11 <+perlDreamer> but you can get a mean yakisoba burrito
23:11 <@rizen> that's terrible pd
23:12 <+perlDreamer> hm
23:13 <+perlDreamer> I need to build a franchise, and while my pasty-making minions serve food I can hack perl.
23:14 < ckotil> when i hear pasty i think of janet jackson and her wardrobe malfunction.
23:14 < perlmonkey2> JSON is a WG req, right?
23:14 < ckotil> amd i waay off the mark?
23:14 <+perlDreamer> pm2: yup
23:15 <+perlDreamer> ckotil: I'll pray for your salvation
23:15 < ckotil> ah pastie. nice.
23:18 <+perlDreamer> when adding things to people's config files (like shipping drivers) do we need to do an existance check first?  To avoid overwriting stuff that might already be there?
23:18 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5629 /translations/Polish/Polish/Asset.pm: update_from_translation_server
23:22 -!- rizen_ [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui
23:23 < rizen_> don't know if anybody said anything about the namespace thing because the cable gods are cruel
23:24 <+perlDreamer> when adding things to people's config files (like shipping drivers) do we need to do an existance check first?  To avoid overwriting stuff that might already be there?
23:25 < rizen_> no you add to what's there
23:25 <+perlDreamer> okay
23:25 < rizen_> WebGUI::Config will handle the rest
23:25 < rizen_> cuz it's smart
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23:33 < CIA-21> WebGUI: chrisn * r5630 /WebGUI/www/extras/ (yui extjs): Remove the old YUI directory to make way for 2.5.0. Remove extjs as it's no longer needed.
23:34 < cap10morgan> Is it possible to simulate clicking the editForm's Save button from a wobject's Perl test suite?
23:34 <@apeiron> I need to put an entry in gotcha.txt documenting the ext/YUI changes, yes?
23:34 <+perlDreamer> cap10morgan: maybe....
23:34 <@preaction> cap10morgan, sure, with WWW::Mechanize
23:35 <+perlDreamer> not with the current test suite for sure though
23:35 <+perlDreamer> preaction: what happened to last night's test runs?
23:35 < cap10morgan> preaction: really, as long it triggers the same code in my wobject, i don't care that it looks 100% like clicking that button to WebGUI
23:35 <@preaction> cap10morgan, then call www_editSave using WebGUI::Test::getPage
23:36 < cap10morgan> preaction: cool, thanks
23:36 <@preaction> perlDreamer, not sure. I tried to install WRE 0.8.3 and failed, settled for re-installing 0.8.1 and updating the JSON stuff. i'll have to check on it
23:37 <+perlDreamer> I think I fixed the failing test last night
23:38 < cap10morgan> hmm, i'm not seeing WebGUI::Test::getPage
23:38 <+perlDreamer> you need to run 7.5
23:39 < cap10morgan> ah, i see
23:39 < cap10morgan> ok
23:39 <+perlDreamer> it's in t/lib/WebGUI/Test, also
23:41 -!- arjancwidlak [n=arjan@widnet.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui
23:41 < arjancwidlak> who
23:41 <@preaction> who dat
23:42 < arjancwidlak> sorry, typo, wanted to see who's there
23:42 < arjancwidlak> He, preaction, I've a question about using subversion not tthat there are two releases;
23:42  * apeiron waits for "Transmitting file data..."
23:42 <+perlDreamer> long wait, dude.
23:43 <@apeiron> Yeah
23:43 <+perlDreamer> thanks for locking SVN for us :)
23:43 <@apeiron> New YUI.
23:43 <@apeiron> Hey, there we go.
23:44 < arjancwidlak> there is a branch WebGUI_7.4 and a 'default' that's mentioned in the wiki https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/WebGUI/
23:44 < arjancwidlak> I suppose I should use the branch WebGUI_7.4 for bugfixes?
23:44 <@preaction> depends, if the bugfix is for 7.4, then you need to submit them to both branches
23:45 <@preaction> i forget how it works best for Haarg. if you submit to just 7.4 or to both
23:45 < arjancwidlak> Ok, clear. And a a feature request such as this one: http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/add-cancel-button-on-editing-listing-page-of-a-matrix
23:46 <@Haarg> RFE's should always be against trunk
23:47 < arjancwidlak> Ok, and a suppose thats the default url in the wiki: https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/WebGUI/
23:47 <@Haarg> yeah
23:47 < arjancwidlak> Ok, thanks.
23:48 <@Haarg> if you post a bug fix, as long as you specify whether it was made using trunk or the branch, either is ok
23:48 < cap10morgan> is it still true that you cannot upgrade to 7.5.x from anything newer than 7.4.21?
23:49 <@Haarg> yes
23:49 <@Haarg> unless you want to do it manually
23:49 < arjancwidlak> Ok, but I wanted to know this because I tried to make a nice diff.
23:49 < CIA-21> WebGUI: chrisn * r5631 /Too many paths: 
23:49 < CIA-21> WebGUI: * resizable text areas now use the YUI 2.5.0 code
23:49 < CIA-21> WebGUI: * add the new YUI release
23:49 < CIA-21> WebGUI: * document the change in both the changelog and gotcha.txt
23:49 <@apeiron> There we go.
23:49  * apeiron pats CIA-21.
23:50 <@Haarg> usually if a bug shows up on trunk and branch, applying it to both is simple
23:51 <@apeiron> I documented my changes in gotcha.txt and the changelog. Is there anything else I need to do?
23:51 <@preaction> nope, you should be fine
23:51 <@apeiron> I recognise that this is a pretty big change and want it to go over as smoothly as possible.
23:52 < arjancwidlak> What I've done is this: I made two directories: WebGUI_7.4 and WebGUI-svn. In the first I did "svn checkout" with the branch and in the second with the trunc. With swich_webgui.pl I switch between the two. Now I wanted to make a diff against both these versions. The head of my diff is the same however: it says: lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Matrix.pm revision 5630
23:52 <@preaction> they are both at the same revision yes
23:52 < arjancwidlak> How do I see the difference between the two in my diff? Not?
23:52 <@preaction> if you make your changes to one branch, before you check in the changes, you can use "svn diff" to get a diff of all your changes
23:53 <@preaction> if you just submitted your changes, and you know what revision they were submitted as, you can do "svn diff -c#" to get the changes in that revision
23:54 <@rizen> arjanwidlak: just to be clear is WebGUI_7.4 just a webgui install, or is it also checked out of subversion?
23:54 < arjancwidlak> It's also checked out of subversion
23:55 -!- wgGuest17 [n=wgGuest1@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has joined #webgui
23:55 < wgGuest17> Hi
23:57 <@preaction> hi
23:59 < arjancwidlak> So, here http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/add-cancel-button-on-editing-listing-page-of-a-matrix I should have added that I made this changed against the latest stable and here http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/wiki-links-to-pages-in-trash#_xzeUHJMSh6owkRNnMQZTg I should have said I made these changes against trunc. And what I should have done is: test the bugfix against both versions and made the RFE for the beta.
--- Day changed Wed Feb 27 2008
00:00 <@preaction> right
00:00 < arjancwidlak> Ok, I will add that to these threads.
00:00 -!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@wsip-70-164-69-210.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving."]
00:01 <+MrReallyAfkGreas> arjan: also check out an old revison of the subversion wiki: http://www.plainblack.com/support/community-wiki/community-wiki/developers-guid-to-svn?func=view;revision=1165814073
00:01 < wgGuest17> I have a question about the template for sending messages
00:02 < wgGuest17> What is this template and where is located
00:02 <+perlDreamer> Sending messages, how?
00:03 <+perlDreamer> from the dataform
00:03 < wgGuest17> Sending the welcome message
00:03 <@apeiron> s/MrReallyAfkGreas/MrNotQuiteSoAfkGreas/ # apparently
00:03 -!- MrReallyAfkGreas is now known as MrHairgrease
00:04 -!- apeiron is now known as apeiron[devils_a
00:04 <@apeiron[devils_a> sigh
00:04 -!- apeiron[devils_a is now known as apeiron
00:05 < wgGuest17> Where is the location of the welcome message template?
00:05 < arjancwidlak> Thanx Martin
00:06 <+perlDreamer> I'm not sure that it is templated.
00:06 <+MrHairgrease> wgguest17: No template
00:06 <+MrHairgrease> you can set the message here: Admin Console > Settings > Authentication tab
00:07 < wgGuest17> Ok, and what is this template Send Private Message Template for?
00:08 <+perlDreamer> it is for private emails between users
00:08 <+perlDreamer> that way you can email somebody in a wG site without knowing their email address
00:09 < wgGuest17> how could I personalize this message (welcome message)
00:09 <+perlDreamer> Go to the Admin Console, to the Settings icon
00:09 <+perlDreamer> the message can be changed in the authentication tab
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00:10 < wgGuest17> I know this, but i want to change the apparience
00:10 <+perlDreamer> What do you want to do?
00:11 < wgGuest17> I want to put in that emmail an image logo and some another text 
00:11 <+perlDreamer> have you tried just typing in the HTML for that into the Settings and see if it works?
00:12 <+perlDreamer> Your only other option is to try and change the WebGUI core code to make it a full HTML field.
00:12 < wgGuest17> Let me trie
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00:14 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: How to make a Google Sitemap of your WebGUI site - Edited on 2/26/2008 4:04 pm by elnino  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/how-to-make-a-google-sitemap-of-your-webgui-site
00:15 <+MrHairgrease> perlDreamer: still there?
00:15 <+perlDreamer> yup
00:15 <+MrHairgrease> then why don't you answer in the private chat?
00:16 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5632 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: unable to remove calendar feeds in IE6
00:16 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5633 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (2 files in 2 dirs): changed iTransact help to refer directly to iTransact website instead of reseller
00:16 <+perlDreamer> didn't get an answer from you
00:16 <+MrHairgrease> you know, th egarbled crap msg
00:16 <+perlDreamer> every time I type to you, it just says <AWAY>
00:16 <+MrHairgrease> well I really did send it
00:16 <+MrHairgrease> oh
00:16 <+perlDreamer> (14:16:27) MrHairgrease <AUTO-REPLY> :  Away
00:17 <+MrHairgrease> I'm unaway now
00:17 <+MrHairgrease> maybe that helps
00:17 <+perlDreamer> nope
00:17 <+perlDreamer> nothing yet
00:17 <+MrHairgrease> stupid irc
00:18 <+MrHairgrease> did you get the loud and clear stuff?
00:18 <+perlDreamer> mp
00:18 <+perlDreamer> no
00:18 <+perlDreamer> it must be on my end
00:19 <+MrHairgrease> screw this 
00:19 <+MrHairgrease> i'll try to msg you
00:19 <+MrHairgrease> hang on
00:19 <+perlDreamer> good idea
00:19 <+MrHairgrease> lot's of pings on the way...
00:20 <+perlDreamer> nada
00:20 <+perlDreamer> let me log out, and log back in in a few minutes
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00:20 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat039.mxim.com] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]
00:23 < arjancwidlak> quit
00:23 < arjancwidlak> exit
00:23 -!- arjancwidlak [n=arjan@widnet.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"]
00:23 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat039.mxim.com] has joined #webgui
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00:23 <+perlDreamer> okay, mhg.  Lay it on me
00:23 <+MrHairgrease> already did
00:23 <+MrHairgrease> still nothing?
00:23 <+perlDreamer> no
00:24 <+MrHairgrease> well death and suffering to irc then
00:24 <+MrHairgrease> you can tell me here why I supposedly talked garbled crap
00:24 <+perlDreamer> well, you said exactly the same thing that I repeated later
00:24 <+perlDreamer> with the welcome message
00:24 <+MrHairgrease> so if you repeat someone they talk garbled crap?
00:25 <+MrHairgrease> oh
00:25 <+perlDreamer> Only if they understand the second person
00:25 <+MrHairgrease> there is a template?
00:25 <+perlDreamer> No, no template
00:25 <+MrHairgrease> so why the garbled crap
00:25 <@rizen> attention all: i've just checked in a basic exception handling system into the commerce branch, could you please take a look and tell me what you think
00:25 <+perlDreamer> because he understood me
00:25 <+MrHairgrease> not that I'm opposed to talking that of course
00:25 <+perlDreamer> so obviously you're speaking garbled crap :)
00:25 <@rizen> https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/browse/branch/WebGUI_Commerce/
00:25 <+MrHairgrease> who isn't these days...
00:26 <@rizen> garbled crap is my native tongue
00:26 < wgGuest17> PearlDreamer.......It Works
00:26 <+perlDreamer> MrHairgrease recently became fluent in it
00:26 <@rizen> i often think that martin and i are long lost brothers
00:26 < wgGuest17> Tks
00:26 <+perlDreamer> you're welcome
00:27 <+MrHairgrease> we have been for years garbled crap wise
00:27 -!- wgGuest17 [n=wgGuest1@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has quit []
00:29 <+MrHairgrease> rizen: is it basically some kind of configurable try-catch like mechanism?
00:29 <@rizen> yes
00:30 <+MrHairgrease> I don't really have formed an opion on it yet
00:30 <@rizen> if you look at this: https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/view/branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Exception.pm
00:30 <@rizen> it shows a synopsis
00:30 <+MrHairgrease> mainly b/c it's 23.30 and it has been a long day
00:30 <@rizen> hehe
00:30 <+MrHairgrease> I read the files in the revison
00:31  * perlDreamer is going to investigate Test::Exception
00:31 <+perlDreamer> to see if it will help
00:31 <+MrHairgrease> but anyway, it's like it is used/implemented easy enoug
00:32 <@preaction> i like it!
00:32 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5634 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/ (Exception/Shop.pm Exception.pm Exception): base exception system
00:32 <+MrHairgrease> and I guess it will not add a layer of bloated clutter, but a layer of useful clutter
00:32 <+MrHairgrease> if you could call it clutter at all\
00:32 <@rizen> is it ok that the namespaces are a little wierd?
00:32 <@rizen> do you see how to add your own exception subclasses since i added one for the shop?
00:33 <+MrHairgrease> yes
00:33 <@rizen> B<NOTE>: Though the package name is WebGUI::Exception, the handler objects that are created are WebGUI::Error.
00:33 <+MrHairgrease> why are they weird btw?
00:33 <+MrHairgrease> oh that
00:33 <+MrHairgrease> you can only throw an exception in case of an error right
00:33 <+MrHairgrease> so how is that weird?
00:33 <@rizen> no i mean that you do a
00:34 <@rizen> use WebGUI::Exception;
00:34 <@rizen> but then later in your code you do
00:34 <@rizen> WebGUI::Error->throw();
00:34 <@rizen> so you use one think
00:34 <@rizen> thing
00:34 <@rizen> but throw another
00:34 <+perlDreamer> why would they be different?
00:34 <@rizen> i couldn't figure out how to do it differently
00:34 <@rizen> well usually you use WebGUI::Something;
00:34 <@rizen> then then do
00:34 <@rizen> WebGUI::Somethin->new
00:35 <+MrHairgrease> yeah i understand
00:35 <@rizen> it's the same namespace everywhere
00:35 <+MrHairgrease> personally I wouldn't loose sleep over it
00:35 <@rizen> but here because i have to create a package that creates packages...i can't reuse the namespace
00:35 <@preaction> it's documented, if they can't read the fine manual then foo on them
00:35 <@rizen> ok
00:35 <@rizen> you realize that "they" in this case is all of you guys right?
00:35 <@preaction> besides, Error will be more used, and it's shorter than Exception, which is good
00:35 <@rizen> =)
00:36 <+MrHairgrease> one thing though
00:36 <+MrHairgrease> isn't it so that in other languages you throw exceptions instead of errors?
00:36 <@rizen> true, but i inverted it here for the reason that preaction said
00:37 <+MrHairgrease> you catch an erro so you throw an exception
00:37 <@rizen> error is shorter
00:37 <+MrHairgrease> oh
00:37 <+MrHairgrease> ok
00:37 <@preaction> i've seen other things use Project::X as their exception class, which is brief, but incomprehensible
00:37 <@rizen> iphone 1.1.4 is out!!!!
00:38 < Radix__> eeks!
00:38 <+perlDreamer> free firmware upgrade?
00:38 <@rizen> hopefully this means the SDK is out too
00:38 <+MrHairgrease> holy overhyped gadgets batman
00:38 <@rizen> yes
00:38 < Radix__> sdk?
00:38 <+perlDreamer> Software Development Kit
00:38 <+perlDreamer> so that wG can run on the iphone
00:38 < Radix__> duh
00:38 <@preaction> wait. are you making WebGUI::Exception::Shop or something?
00:38 <@rizen> i did 
00:38 < Radix__> I know what sdk means, I was meaning.. was it out? :)
00:39 <@rizen> so you could see how to create subclass exceptions
00:39 <+perlDreamer> Radix__: Did you offer to write some commerce code yesterday?
00:39 -!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@wsip-70-164-69-210.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving."]
00:39 <@preaction> i think these things are going to work out nicely
00:39 < Radix__> I offered to add Aussie support, if its not too hard and easy enough
00:39 < Radix__> I have all of Australia Post's shipping prices
00:39 <+perlDreamer> it should be very easy to write shipping plugins
00:40 < Radix__> tax for australia is prettymuch a flat 10% GST applied to everything except foodstuffs and a few other things
00:40 <+perlDreamer> have a look at https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/view/branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Shop/ShipDriver/FlatRate.pm
00:40 <+perlDreamer> that's a shipping plugin
00:40 <+MrHairgrease> radix_: clothing is 10% too?
00:41 < Radix__> yup
00:41 <+MrHairgrease> ok
00:41 <+MrHairgrease> in that case what would be the tax on edible panties?
00:42 < Radix__> 10%
00:42 <+MrHairgrease> but it is foodstuff too
00:42 < Radix__> not all foodstuffs are gst free
00:43 < Radix__> only a few actually are
00:44 <@rizen> an unfinished shipping plugin
00:45 < Radix__> yeah, that shipping plugin has no actual calculation
00:47 <+perlDreamer> it's just missing the shipping cart iterator and summer
00:47 <@rizen> but pd is right, this new system is meant to be super easy for plugging in new stuff
00:47 <@rizen> just 2 methods
00:47 <+perlDreamer> is the shipping for Aussie Post complicated?
00:48 <@rizen> aussie post might be so simple they can just use the flat rate module =)
00:49 <+perlDreamer> I mean, if it fit into the FlatRate model, you wouldn't even have to build another plugin, just customize that one.
00:49 <+perlDreamer> now that was just scary
00:49 <+perlDreamer> you must be picking up a carrier wave from preaction
00:50 < Radix__> pretty simple I think yeah - flat rate inside australia based on weight - international is different tho
00:51 <+perlDreamer> Test::Exception will help us.  Less typing.  I'll try it out after converting from croak to exceptions.
00:51 < Radix__> We have all the info here at work for aussie post, australian air express, dhl, ems, etc
00:51 <+perlDreamer> Radix__: The flat rate model is flatRate + percentage of item costs + per item charges + cost per weight.
00:51 < Radix__> If I can write those up it'd make it hugely useful for aussies wanting to use it
00:52 <+perlDreamer> maybe it would help if we could export configured shipper drivers?
00:52 <+perlDreamer> kind of like taxes
00:53 <@rizen> that's not a bad idea
00:54 <+perlDreamer> export it as JSON, maybe?
00:54 <+perlDreamer> it's too complex for CSV
00:54 <@rizen> that would be simple enough
00:55 <@apeiron> Scrolling up and I see the Exception / Error stuff. I have a question. Let's say that you do an operation. It throws an exception. You handle that exception. The world's happy. Then later you do another operation and check for exceptions.
00:55 <@apeiron> What happens
00:55 <@apeiron> ?
00:59 <@preaction> what do you mean? you either handle it or you send it up the stack
01:01 <@apeiron> if (my $e = WebGUI::Error->caught("WebGUI::Error::ObjectNotFound")) { # say I previously handled an error of this time. There may / may not be a new error waiting for me. Can I be sure that the ObjectNotFound error is removed? What if I haven't checked for errors after the first operation? Are there two errors waiting for me?
01:01 <@apeiron> s/time/type/
01:01 <+perlDreamer> no, I think you have to do it one by one
01:01 <+perlDreamer> no queueing
01:02 <@preaction> if you catch an error, it's removed. if you don't catch it, it gets sent up the stack
01:04 <+perlDreamer> rizen: which version of Test::Exception are we using?  Does it need to go in testEnvironment.pl, too?
01:04 <@apeiron> Hm. Okay. I still don't understand how propagation works.
01:04 <@rizen> We're not using test::exception yet
01:04 <@rizen> Exception::Class
01:04 <+perlDreamer> uh, yeah, that.
01:04 <@rizen> whatever the latest is
01:04 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5635 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (4 files in 4 dirs): 
01:04 < CIA-21> WebGUI: Add the shippingDrivers entry to the config file.
01:04 < CIA-21> WebGUI: Have the update script remove the old shipping plugin and add the new shipping driver entry to config files.
01:04 < CIA-21> WebGUI: Tests for Ship.t. getDrivers and some "new" code for Shop::Ship.
01:04 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5636 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Exception.pm: added WrongObjectType
01:05 <@apeiron> I guess if you do an eval{} of an operation that throws, and then don't check for exceptions, it's just dropped on the floor, right?
01:08 <+perlDreamer> yes
01:10 <@apeiron> Okay, that makes sense.
01:10 <@apeiron> Note to self, don't do that.
01:10 <+perlDreamer> You could be a doctor ;)
01:10 <@apeiron> My handwriting is plenty illegible enough, eesh.
01:14 <+perlDreamer> I think exceptions are going to have some far reaching effects in WebGUI
01:14 <+perlDreamer> Just think how they might interact with WebGUI::Pluggable
01:15 <@Haarg> perlDreamer: we may want to change how merged changes are noted now that we are maintaining two branches
01:16 <+perlDreamer> how do you want the, Haarg?
01:16 <@Haarg> i think we should just note the release a change was added, not listing the new 7.4 releases at all
01:17 <@Haarg> in trunk that is
01:17 <+perlDreamer> do you mean noted in SVN, or noted in changelog?
01:17 <@Haarg> in the changelog
01:17 <@apeiron> perlDreamer, I'm thinking along the lines of making all those "return undef"s and the like actually do something meaningful. :)
01:18 <@preaction> can't
01:18 <@preaction> breaks API
01:18 <+perlDreamer> just be real careful, apeiron.  wG can break really quickly and we don't have total test coverage
01:18 <@apeiron> preaction, In the future, anyway.
01:18 <@preaction> oh, yes
01:18 <@Haarg> i think that's high on everyone's list for where it can be done
01:20 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, back to changelogging, how do we keep track the correlation between 7.4 releases and SVN revision numbers?
01:20 <@preaction> aren't we using tags yet?
01:20 <+perlDreamer> it's very quick in the changelog to say, oh, that bug was fixed in 7.4.22, so please upgrade to that version or newer?
01:20 <@Haarg> we have tags for each release
01:21 <@Haarg> i think we should keep doing the same as before in 7.4
01:21 <@Haarg> but it gets wierd having the new 7.4 releases in the 7.5 changelog
01:21 <@Haarg> and makes it hard to see which 7.5 release a fix was included in
01:21 <+perlDreamer> that's true
01:21 <+perlDreamer> but it makes merging changelogs a little harder, but not badly
01:22 -!- patspam [i=chatzill@ppp59-167-142-241.lns3.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #webgui
01:22 <@Haarg> well, i'd have to do that work anyway for release notes
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01:23 <@Haarg> this way i get to push some of it to you :)
01:24 <+perlDreamer> no problem, man.
01:24 <+perlDreamer> I'll also backport test fixes until the 7.4 tests run clean again
01:24 <@Haarg> i'm going to revise the 7.5 changelog along those lines then when i get a chance
01:25 <+perlDreamer> arjan was in here asking about fixing/merging, too, so it might be worth your time to put together a wiki page/dev posting so everyone knows
01:26 <@Haarg> probably a good idea
01:26 <+perlDreamer> although I'm probably the biggest offender in that area
01:31 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5637 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/sbin/testEnvironment.pl: add testEnvironment check for Exception::Class
01:31 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5638 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Exception.pm: added InvalidParam, renamed WrongObjectType to InvalidObject
01:31 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5639 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Shop/CartItem.pm: converted to use exception handling
01:31 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5640 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Shop/ (CartItem.pm Cart.pm): updated to use exceptions rather than croak
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01:37 < Sunmaster_14> I'm having trouble starting spectre: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m787f7f06
01:37 <+perlDreamer> did you search the wiki and the forums?
01:37 <+perlDreamer> also, the bug database?
01:37 < Sunmaster_14> I'm puzzled. I don't know what caused this problem to start happening. I've looked on the forums and found a similar report, but no answers.
01:38 <+perlDreamer> have you recently updated the WRE or WebGUI?
01:38 < Sunmaster_14> No.
01:38 < Sunmaster_14> Well, actually yes
01:38 < Sunmaster_14> WebGUI now that I think of it, I reran setup and teh wre automatically reinstalled webgui
01:38 -!- vayde [n=vayde@c-24-118-227-55.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
01:38 <+perlDreamer> and did you run the corresponding testEnvironment script to make sure everything is up to date?
01:38 < Sunmaster_14> No.
01:39 <+perlDreamer> try that first
01:39 <+perlDreamer> please
01:40 <+perlDreamer> Sunmaster_14: we always need to know what version of wG you're using, if you're using the WRE or not (and its version if you are).
01:40 < Sunmaster_14> Aha! I think the testEnvironment script found the problem. I'd been getting a JSON error, and it says my JSON version is out of date for the current WebGUI version
01:41 <+perlDreamer> you should need to update JSON, and maybe JSON::Config as well
01:41 < Sunmaster_14> yup, just did so
01:43 <+perlDreamer> did that help with spectre?
01:43 < Sunmaster_14> not yet... now I can't run the wre
01:43 < Sunmaster_14> I'm going to check what version it is
01:43 <+perlDreamer> I would strongly recommend updating to 0.8.3
01:44 < Sunmaster_14> how do I check what version I have?
01:44 <+perlDreamer> that one I don't know
01:45 < Sunmaster_14> ah, I have .8.1
01:45 < Sunmaster_14> according to the docs directory
01:45 < Sunmaster_14> can't run the wreupgrade script though
01:47 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5641 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): added script to remove unneeded .wgaccess files instead of running during upgrade
01:47 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5642 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: unable to remove calendar feeds in IE6
01:47 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5643 /WebGUI/www/extras/ (hoverhelp.js hoverhelp.css): remove hack in hoverhelp that isn't needed with new YUI
01:47 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5644 /WebGUI/docs/gotcha.txt: Simpler gotcha listing re YUI and Ext
01:49 < Sunmaster_14> Yeah, I'm getting this: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m6813e03c when I try to run wreupgrade.pl
01:49 < Sunmaster_14> I could just delete my whole wre and install .8.3
01:50 < Sunmaster_14> it seems like updating JSON broke .8.1
01:50 <+perlDreamer> how about downgrading JSON, and then running the upgrade script?
01:50 < Sunmaster_14> not a bad idea
01:50 < Sunmaster_14> I'm not sure where to install JSON to though.
01:51 <+perlDreamer> it's somewhere in the WRE directory
01:51 <+perlDreamer> find /data/wre -name 'JSON.pm'
01:51 < Sunmaster_14> So is it just that file that needs to be changed?
01:51 <+perlDreamer> no, JSON::Config needs to be downgraded as well
01:57 <+perlDreamer> $rizen->evoke($session);
01:57 <@rizen> evoke?
01:57 <@rizen> are you kicking me from irc?
01:57 <@rizen> oh, that would be revoke
01:57 <+perlDreamer> it's nicer than provoke
01:57 <+perlDreamer> and I'm not using you, so I can't invoke
01:58 <+perlDreamer> I need another exception, for bad user data in a file
01:58 <+perlDreamer> is that a new class Exception::UserDataFile, or just something in Exception?
01:59 <+perlDreamer> it would contain the name of the file, and the line number where the data was found
02:00 <@rizen> that seems pretty generic so i'd go with putting it right in exception
02:00 <@rizen> and i might call it CorruptFile or InvalidFile
02:00 <@rizen> something like that
02:00 <+perlDreamer> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:evoke&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title
02:00 <@rizen> but it's up to you since it's your exception!
02:00 <+perlDreamer> evoke ~~ raise : summon into action or bring into existenace, often as if by magic
02:01 <@rizen> you are magical
02:01 <+perlDreamer> well, I want to design it well
02:01 <@rizen> since Error already has file and line
02:01 <@rizen> make sure you make yours explicit
02:02 <@rizen> like brokenFile and brokenLine
02:02 <+perlDreamer> filename and linenumber
02:02 <+perlDreamer> yours are better
02:03 <@rizen> i'm going to start writing the donation asset so that we have a product we can test with
02:03 <+perlDreamer> cool
02:03 <+perlDreamer> then I'll have to go back and write the tests for Tax
02:04 <@rizen> yeah, once i have this done, there will be lots of testing we can do
02:05 <@rizen> the only crappy part about donation is that it's not shippable
02:05 <@rizen> but the Product asset is going to be a big deal to write/migrate so i don't want to wait that long
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02:05 <+perlDreamer> don't worry about that
02:05 <@rizen> i suppose we can mark the donation asset as shippable for the time being
02:06 <+perlDreamer> I'll be busy for a while with calculation tests
02:06 <+perlDreamer> wait
02:06 <+perlDreamer> are Donations taxable?
02:06 <@rizen> depends on where you are probably
02:06 <@rizen> but again, we can make them taxable for the purposes of this test
02:07 <+perlDreamer> yeah
02:08 <+perlDreamer> Could we just crowbar a bare Sku to do the testing?
02:09 <+perlDreamer> I've done some similar kinds of things with the raw Asset class.
02:09 <@rizen> true, but the reason i want to do donation is that it's easy to do, and it will have a variable price for us to test with
02:10 <@rizen> i guess it doesn't matter thought
02:10 <@rizen> my Cart tests all use Sku
02:10 <+perlDreamer> not to dis' anyone, but now that Sku is built, anyone can build extensions on top of it
02:11 <+perlDreamer> me, Arjan, Radix, Joeri
02:11 <+perlDreamer> you need to stay high level
02:12 <@rizen> i need to stay high level?
02:13 <+perlDreamer> yeah
02:13 <+perlDreamer> It's like terraforming
02:13 <+perlDreamer> Worry about the atmosphere, the water ecology
02:13 <@rizen> i think i need to keep building..cuz if i don't then you'll have to write everything yourself
02:13 <+perlDreamer> and let someone else plant shrubs
02:13 <@rizen> i haven't seen anybody else planting shrubs
02:13 <@rizen> except you
02:13 <+perlDreamer> true
02:13 <@rizen> besides...i like getting my hands dirty
02:13 <@rizen> =)
02:13 <+perlDreamer> true
02:14 <@rizen> and
02:14 <@rizen> the faster that we get all the stuff that has to get done done
02:14 <@rizen> the cooler we can make it
02:14 <+perlDreamer> indeed
02:14 <@rizen> the EMS is going to be a big bear to tackle
02:14 <+perlDreamer> yeah, and it's not tested
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02:14 <+perlDreamer> it ought to be last
02:15 <@rizen> subscriptions and products won't be easy, but they won't be anything in comparison
02:15 <+perlDreamer> I know it's a big app, but how many people use the EMS vs commerce?
02:15 <@rizen> actually i think i'm going to work on EMS after i get done with donation, and you can work with either product or subscription
02:15 <@rizen> i guess we still have all the UI stuff to do too
02:15 <@rizen> so i shouldn't get too far ahead of myself
02:17 <+perlDreamer> any news from joeri about payment?
02:17 <+perlDreamer> Maybe we have almost all the API done
02:17 <@rizen> nothing
02:17 <@rizen> i guess i should email him
02:18 <+perlDreamer> I have Tax converted to use wG::Exception
02:18 <+perlDreamer> I'd like to tinker a little with Test::Exception next
02:19 <@rizen> sweet
02:19 <@rizen> on tinkering
02:20 <+perlDreamer> after I have Tax completed, I'll sweep back through ShipDriver* and then end back up in Ship
02:20 <@rizen> i'm thinking all sku's should have a description field just like wobjects, what say you?
02:20 <+perlDreamer> Yeah
02:20 <+perlDreamer> This is a blah blah blah
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02:36 <@Haarg> perlDreamer: can you think of any reason not to port WebGUI::Test from trunk to 7.4?
02:36 <@Haarg> the adspace operation test is failing because it was written using ->getPage, which doesn't exist in 7.4's version
02:39 <@preaction> it should be fine
02:39 <@Haarg> yeah, it looks fine to me
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02:44 <+perlDreamer> rock on
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02:45 <@rizen> someone should update either GooeyOfSteel or perlbot to automatically check the rss feeds from the black blog and the staff blog for new titles
02:49 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5645 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm: fix leaking undef $/ in storage
02:49 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5646 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/ (Shop/Tax.pm Exception.pm): convert Shop::Tax to use exceptions
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02:59 <@rizen> el capeetan
02:59 <@rizen> tavisto tells me he has been harassing you
03:00 <@rizen> hope he's not getting too annoying
03:10 <@preaction> he's bad. his pretty face staring at me from his IM window... drives me insane. keeps me up some nights
03:18 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5647 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm: porting WebGUI::Test from trunk
03:18 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5648 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.4.26 release
03:18 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5649 /releases/WebGUI_7.4.26-stable: Release 7.4.26-stable
03:18 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5650 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (4 files in 4 dirs): preparing for 7.4.27
03:48 < diakopter> preaction: I downgraded the runCronJob as you suggested.  same error though.  Couldn't execute operation : WebGUI::Operation::Cron::www_runCronJob. Root cause: malformed JSON string, neither array, object, number, string or atom, at character offset 0 ["(end of string)"] at /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/JSON.pm line 140.
03:48 <@preaction> upgrade to the latest release? that should be fixed now
03:48 < diakopter> will do
03:49 <@preaction> this is on 7.4, no?
03:49 < diakopter> 7.4, though I'm going to upgrade to trunk asap
03:50 <@preaction> if you go to 7.4.22 or higher, you can't get to 7.5 until 7.5 goes stable
03:50 < diakopter> oh; ok.
03:50 < diakopter> thanks for the heads up
03:50  * diakopter starts over with the wre 0.8.3, for good measure.
04:07 < diakopter> preaction: yes, those errors have been fixed.
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04:14 < Sunmaster_14> I'm having an interesting problem: I created a test site in the wre console, then removed that site. Now that the site is removed, I'm getting errors when I try to start modperl, that say that it can't connect to the database because access is denied for the user that was created for the test site but no longer exists.
04:14 < Sunmaster_14> (I'm in v 0.8.3)
04:15 <@preaction> did you name the site "test"?
04:15 < Sunmaster_14> no, I named it testsite
04:15 <@preaction> can you add another site and start modperl?
04:17 < Sunmaster_14> dunno, I can try that... what about moving and restoring the my.cnf file? would that help, d'you think?
04:19 <@preaction> why? my.cnf has nothing to do with the users in the mysql database
04:19 < Sunmaster_14> huh, apparently there was a stored user "". When I created the new site, it said "Would you like to change the stored password for user ?"
04:20 <@preaction> that isn't right. it's supposed to create a random user name
04:20 < Sunmaster_14> yeah.
04:20 < Sunmaster_14> it did last time
04:20 < Sunmaster_14> modperl is still not starting
04:21 < Sunmaster_14> still access denied for the same old user
04:22 <@preaction> does the config file for that old site still exist?
04:22 <@preaction> are you running the wreconsole as root?
04:23 < diakopter> preaction: well, spectre suicided again.  I don't see any errors in the logs.
04:24 <@preaction> perl spectre.pl --test, perl spectre.pl --run --debug, same as usual
04:24 < Sunmaster_14> am running as root...  dnno if this is useful info, but at some point I got the following error in the wreconsole: /data/wre/prereqs/share/mysql/mysql.server: line 159: kill: (15484) - No such process
04:24 < Sunmaster_14> and the config file for the old one is gone
04:26 <@preaction> Sunmaster_14, then modperl shouldn't be trying to load the old site's user
04:26 < Sunmaster_14> preaction: Right. But the old site's user's name shouldn't be blank either.
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04:46 < Sunmaster_14> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m6f095f7 suggestions, anyone?
04:52 <@preaction> restart modperl? find which site is trying to connect using that user?
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04:54 < Sunmaster_14> well, I can't run modperl
04:54 < Sunmaster_14> that's the old user I was talking about
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05:04 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5651 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (15 files in 11 dirs): created donation asset
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06:13 < Sunmaster_14> greetings, cap10morgan 
06:13 < Sunmaster_14> (this is dfrishberg)
06:19 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: sqlreport - Created on 2/26/2008 10:08 pm by elnino  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/sqlreport
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06:25 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: sqlreport - Edited on 2/26/2008 10:14 pm by elnino  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/sqlreport
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07:03 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: sqlreport - Edited on 2/26/2008 10:53 pm by elnino  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/sqlreport
07:16 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: sqlreport - Edited on 2/26/2008 11:05 pm by elnino  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/sqlreport
07:27 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: sqlreport - Edited on 2/26/2008 11:16 pm by elnino  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/sqlreport
08:03 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: sqlreport - Edited on 2/26/2008 11:53 pm by elnino  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/sqlreport
08:06 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: sqlreport - Edited on 2/26/2008 11:56 pm by elnino  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/sqlreport
08:26 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: sqlreport - Edited on 2/27/2008 12:16 am by elnino  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/sqlreport
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17:12 <@rizen> pd!
17:12 <@rizen> are you always up this early?
17:13 <@rizen> rizen to perlDreamer, come in perlDreamer
17:14 <@rizen> must just be a ghost
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17:37 < rjacobsen> good morning everyone, I have a quick question if anyone has time please
17:38 < BartJol> well, should be possible
17:38 < BartJol> just a minute, have to make a call
17:38 < rjacobsen> ok
17:38 < BartJol> just describe your problem
17:39 < BartJol> in the meantime
17:40 < rjacobsen> Our current version of webgui that we are using is 7.3.22, and we are hosting 45+ websites in webgui. Due to the fact we do not want anything to break we have refrained from updating webgui. All that aside, I am simply wanting the "New Content" panel in the "Admin Console" to ONLY show up for Admins and no one else. Is there an easy way to do this?
17:41 < BartJol> well, I should have to check on that
17:42 < rjacobsen> It would be awesome if we could find where to check to see if an "admin" is logged in and to only enable the "New Content" panel if only an "admin" was logged in
17:42 < BartJol> Those groups are embedded in the system, so probably some default have to be altered
17:44 <@rizen> see WebGUI.conf.original a setting calle assetAddPrivilege
17:47 < BartJol> mmm, but then you have to do that for each type of asset
17:47 <@rizen> http://www.bbspot.com/News/2001/03/perl_test.html
17:49 < BartJol> ah, that's a referral especially for me?
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17:51 <+perlDreamer> heh
17:51 <+perlDreamer> forgot to logout last night
17:53 <@rizen> yes bart
17:53 <@rizen> that's for you
17:54 <@rizen> pd, i've decided that the commerce ui stuff should come in as a new content handler rather than ops
17:54 <@rizen> do you have any objections?
17:54 <+perlDreamer> no objections from the peanut gallery
17:55 <+perlDreamer> Test::Exceptions makes _simple_ exception testing really easy
17:55 <+perlDreamer> however, more in depth tests still have to be done manually
17:55 <+perlDreamer> maybe I should write Test::Exception::Deep
17:56 <+perlDreamer> ya see, it will check the class, OR it will check the stringification
17:56 <+perlDreamer> but it won't check parameters or the error field
17:57 <+perlDreamer> I wonder how he tested that in Exception::Class
17:57 < BartJol> rizen, you make me sad, and all those lousy customers too
17:58 <@rizen> lousy?
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17:58 <@rizen> are you saying our customers have lice?
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17:59 <@rizen> pd: i'm pretty excited about this whole exception handling thing..it's something i've wanted to do for a long time
18:00 < BartJol> yes 6 calls in 15 minutes
18:00 <+perlDreamer> it's good stuff
18:00 <@rizen> i think i'm going to apply it to the content and url handlers since i already did croak there
18:00 <+perlDreamer> BartJol: Did you tell them all to upgrade JSON ?
18:00 <@rizen> oh, you're saying your customers have lice
18:00 <@rizen> that's ok then
18:00 <+perlDreamer> rizen: cool
18:01 < BartJol> well, they have a windows problem: they have it
18:01 < BartJol> almost the same as lice
18:01 < BartJol> we do some other stuff too
18:07 <+perlDreamer> cool.  7.4 is passing all tests (except the label test)
18:09 <@preaction> you mean the test box works? it did what it was told?
18:10 <@preaction> i really need to improve the robustness of that code before I should've released it to the wild... the slightest thing wrong and it starts screwing up the disk
18:10 < BartJol> but do you mean you can also do it by stating "WebGUI::Asset" : 3 ?
18:21 <+perlDreamer> whoa
18:21 <+perlDreamer> check this out
18:21 <+perlDreamer> http://blog.oregonlive.com/breakingnews/2008/02/hermiston_high_dunk_generates.html
18:21 <+perlDreamer> cross court pass and dunk
18:21 <+perlDreamer> by high schoolers!
18:23 < ckotil> nice play
18:24 <@rizen> someone was eating their wheaties
18:24 <+perlDreamer> I think hermiston has 1000 people in it
18:24 <+perlDreamer> It's the last town on Hwy 80 before you go into Washington
18:25 <+perlDreamer> hm, try about 14.5 kPeople
18:25 <+perlDreamer> it's bigger than I thought
18:25 <+perlDreamer> anyway, time to head into work
18:25 <+perlDreamer> be back in 30
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18:29 < perlmonkey2> The survey js should be placed in a survey folder in extras, right?
18:29 < perlmonkey2> ahah, wobject/survey
18:29 <@rizen> yup
18:44 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5652 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (2 files in 2 dirs): added commerce ui glue
18:44 < BartJol> well, if you are only gonna be mean to me, Ican just as well go home :)
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19:25 < Sunmaster_14> I'm having spectre issues (wre .8.3, latest webgui). spectre.pl --test gives me this: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m600d68e3
19:25 < Sunmaster_14> SPECTRE runs but I can't commit changes. I've looked through the fora.
19:27 <@preaction> you don't have that perl module or you ran spectre without using the WRE's environment
19:29 <+perlDreamer> since you're using the WRE, you are probably having setEnvironment problems
19:29 < Sunmaster_14> Whoops, preaction: I forgot to set the environment, you're right: now it says I need to adjust my spectrePort or spectreIP. The IP is right. How do I know what the port needs to be?
19:30 < Sunmaster_14> It's currently 32133.
19:30 <@preaction> did you change the port in spectre.conf or webgui.conf?
19:31 < Sunmaster_14> No.
19:32 <@preaction> then you don't need to change the port
19:32 <+perlDreamer> preaction: aside from rampant disk destruction, the test server rocks!
19:32 < Sunmaster_14> The port's the same in spectre.conf, and I don't know where to find WebGUI.conf (it's not in /data/WebGUI/etc, just WebGUI.conf.original is there)
19:33 <@preaction> Sunmaster_14, then you don't have any webgui sites configured, which might explain why spectre can't connect to any of them
19:33 < Sunmaster_14> preaction: Interesting. How do I configure a WebGUI site other than creating it in the WRE Console?
19:34 <@preaction> wreconsole not working to create sites?
19:34 <@preaction> addsite.pl --help <- a command-line way that i find easier to use for my purposes
19:34 < Sunmaster_14> It is, in that I can create and edit them, but I can't commit changes.
19:34 < Sunmaster_14> ok
19:34 <@preaction> so you created a site with the wreconsole.pl, and no <sitename>.conf file shows up in /data/WebGUI/etc
19:35 < Sunmaster_14> No, there's a sitename.conf file
19:35 < Sunmaster_14> but no WebGUI.conf
19:35 <+perlDreamer> sitename.conf _is_ a WebGUI.conf file
19:35 <@preaction> ... okay. from now on, when anyone ever asks about your WebGUI conf file, they mean the <sitename>.conf file for your site
19:36 < Sunmaster_14> ah
19:36 < Sunmaster_14> sorry
19:36 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: WebGUI.conf is a nickname for <yourSiteName>.conf
19:36 < perlbot> WebGUI.conf is a nickname for <yourSiteName isn't something I know about, perlDreamer
19:36 < Sunmaster_14> Understood.
19:36 < Sunmaster_14> Well, both of those show port 32133, as does spectre.conf
19:36 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: WebGUI.conf is a nickname for _yourSiteName_.conf
19:36 < perlbot> added WebGUI.conf to the database
19:37 < Sunmaster_14> so the port is not the issue... anything else you know of that could be causing that message?
19:37 <@preaction> spectre not binding to the right IP, the host not knowing that the first siteName in your webgui conf is actually on the system it's currently on
19:40 < Sunmaster_14> ok, so I ran with --debug set, and it's definitely binding...
19:40 < Sunmaster_14> for each workflow instance it tries to handle, it says ERROR: <instance name> had a communications error.
19:40 < Sunmaster_14> 500 Internal Server Error
19:41 <@preaction> it's not that it isn't binding, it's that it is binding to the wrong address
19:41 < Sunmaster_14> ok, it binds to localhost:32133, which is where it's supposed to
19:41 <@preaction> or that WebGUI doesn't allow that address to send workflow runner requests
19:41 <@preaction> localhost is 127.0.0.1 in your /etc/hosts?
19:42 < Sunmaster_14> well, what it says in the script output is 127.0.0.1:32133
19:42 < Sunmaster_14> It's actually testsite that's set to 127.0.0.1
19:42 < Sunmaster_14> which is the name of my site
19:42 <@preaction> and 127.0.0.1/32 is one of your spectreSubnets in your webgui conf?
19:42 <@preaction> 127.0.0.1 is your spectreIp in your webgui conf?
19:42 < Sunmaster_14> yes to both
19:42 <@preaction> the webgui.log says that it sees a workflow runner request from 127.0.0.1, which it is deying?
19:43 <@preaction> denying?
19:43 < Sunmaster_14> not denying
19:43 < Sunmaster_14> it says "adding schedule such-and-such from testsite to queue at priority 10 (sometimes 20"
19:44 < Sunmaster_14> posting workflow instance to http://testsite:80
19:44 <@preaction> that's spectre recieving a responce from webgui
19:44 <@preaction> that's spectre sending a request to webgui
19:44 < Sunmaster_14> oh
19:46 < Sunmaster_14> Then I don't know how to check whether it's receiving a request from webgui
19:46 <@preaction> the webgui.log file would have it
19:46 < Sunmaster_14> good clal
19:46 < Sunmaster_14> call*
19:48 < Sunmaster_14> yeah, it says it couldn't connect to 127.0.0.1:32133
19:48 <@preaction> that was when spectre wasn't running
19:48 < Sunmaster_14> ok
19:48 <+perlDreamer> might want to try a commit now and see if it works
19:50 < Sunmaster_14> Didn't work.... it says http://webgui.pastebin.com/m53da788a
19:51 < Sunmaster_14> then it gives a little html ditty that says 500 internal server error
19:51 <@preaction> and perl spectre.pl --test says everything passes?
19:52 <@preaction> testsite is defined in your /etc/hosts?
19:52 < Sunmaster_14> yes to both
19:52 <@preaction> what does doing "curl testsite?op=spectreGetSiteData" on the system do?
19:53 < Sunmaster_14> gives a big hash array, want me to paste it?
19:53 < Sunmaster_14> I'm not sure what the salient points are, but sitename is "testsite"
19:53 < Sunmaster_14> priority is 2
19:54 <@preaction> no, if it gives you a JSON string then it's working
19:54 < Sunmaster_14> ah, that's json
19:54 < Sunmaster_14> ok
19:54 <@preaction> is there something with an instanceId?
19:54 < Sunmaster_14> yes
19:54 < Sunmaster_14> It is identical to the one in the paste
19:55 <@preaction> run this: curl testsite?op=runWorkflow;instanceId=OpTdoaWc4XdyH08w2by0PQ
19:55 < Sunmaster_14> btw, preaction: I appreciate the help. I'm kind of strapped for time today otherwise I'd have been more thorough searching the forums
19:55 < Sunmaster_14> it says "error"
19:56 <@preaction> look in the webgui.log, find out what the error is
19:56 < Sunmaster_14> no instance id passed to workflow runner
19:56 < Sunmaster_14> huh.
19:57 <@preaction> because ; is a special character in sh. try encasing the URL in single-quotes
19:57 <@preaction> 'testsite?op=blah;instanceId=blah'
19:57 < Sunmaster_14> complete
19:58 <@preaction> it's working fine then
19:58 <@preaction> oh, but for one more thing: what is your webguiPort in spectre.conf?
19:58 <@preaction> it should be the port you set up for modperl, 8081 by default
19:59 < Sunmaster_14> hmm, it says 80
19:59 < Sunmaster_14> I thought modperl was 80 and modproxy was 8081 by default
19:59 <@preaction> no. it's the other way around
20:00 <@preaction> modproxy is the front-line. modperl is behind it so that modproxy can do some things to keep unnecessary load off of modperl
20:00 < Sunmaster_14> ok, I mean it's set to whatever it got set to when I installed it
20:01 <@preaction> so set the webguiPort in spectre.conf to 8081 and then restart spectre
20:01 < Sunmaster_14> hmm, just did, commit still fails :(
20:02 <@preaction> so you click Save, then you click Commit My Changes, then you click Save in the comment screen, and you wait for spectre to process it and it never does
20:02 <@preaction> without being on the box, i can't diagnose this further
20:02 < Sunmaster_14> ok
20:03 < Sunmaster_14> well, thanks again for all your help
20:04 <@preaction> the only thing i can think of is that spectre isn't actually running at all. you can do commits manually, as you saw with that ?op=runWorkflow thing. that's all spectre does is request that exact URL
20:04 <@preaction> is "testsite" the first sitename in your webgui conf?
20:04 <@preaction> what does wreservice.pl --ping spectre <- say?
20:05 < Sunmaster_14> it says "OK"
20:06 < Sunmaster_14> testsite is the first and only name in my webgui conf
20:06 <@preaction> dunno then
20:06 < Sunmaster_14> One other thing: when I first created the site (after a fresh install of everything, i.e. build.sh --all), it said "Would you like to change the stored password for ?"
20:07 < Sunmaster_14> I thought that was weird.
20:07 < Sunmaster_14> However, the only users shown in mysql are root, backup, test, and the autogenerated user for testsite.
20:29 < Sunmaster_14> Is there any way of making an http proxy follow links inside the proxy, i.e. you click a link, and it presents the linked page within the proxy asset?
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20:39 < Sunmaster_14> nm, think I just foud it
20:39 < Sunmaster_14> found*
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20:49 <@rizen> perlDreamer, whatcha working on?
20:49 <+perlDreamer> VNC access to a win2K box and layouts
20:50 <@rizen> ic
20:50 <@rizen> sounds terribly exciting
20:52 <+perlDreamer> what's up?
20:52  * diakopter does not make chip layouts for a living
20:53 <+perlDreamer> w.r.t wG, I'm trying not to be horribly upset at Test::Exception not being cooler
20:53 <@rizen> you could always make it a project to make it cooler and contribute the coolness back to it's author
20:53 <+perlDreamer> but then I wouldn't be working on the commerce system
20:54 <@rizen> well you'd be working on making all of webgui better because testing would be better
20:54 <@rizen> but beyond that, you don't have to do the changes now
20:54 <@rizen> you can wait until you're sick of commerce
20:54 <+perlDreamer> okay
20:58 <@rizen> the reason i ask what you're up to is that i'm working on building out the cart UI and so it's time to do integration with shipping and tax and stuff...thought you might want to work together
20:58 <@rizen> but since you're busy, we can do it another time, or i can work on it by myself when that point comes
21:00 <+perlDreamer> I still need to sweep back through ShipDriver* and convert to exceptions
21:00 <+perlDreamer> so don't wait for me if you have time
21:00 <+perlDreamer> although it would be cool to learn some UI design
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21:37 <+perlDreamer> diakopter: scratch the idea of taking Cody to the Australian outback - http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/02/27/australia.snake.ap/index.html?iref=mpstoryview
21:43 < diakopter> perlDreamer: maybe I'll purchase a baby python as a toy for him.  Hopefully he'll kill it before it gets too big.
21:44 <+perlDreamer> if not, you can train the python to get you a drink from the fridge
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21:48 <+perlDreamer> $self->away("gym")
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22:38 < rjacobsen> is there a way to send emails with webgui? like i want to place a php file in the root of webgui and be able to send emails using a flash script..... i just need to know if webgui has email protocol built in and where would i place the php file
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23:35 < Sunmaster_14> I have an HTTP Proxy with url rewriting turned on so that when you click a link it goes to the new location within the asset. How do I set it so that some of the links, but not all, actually leave the webgui site?
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23:46 < ckotil> i think there is an option in the http proxy asset to proxy external content.
23:46 < ckotil> turn that off and links should let you leave the site.
23:46 < ckotil> its been a while since ive used that asset. caused me some headaches..
23:54 <@preaction> i could swear we added regex to define which links are or are not rewritten
23:55 <@preaction> we did. in the display tab
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00:26 <+perlDreamer> I need a double check on something
00:26 <+perlDreamer> I think I'm going overboard on this exception testing
00:26 <+perlDreamer> Do y'all think it's necessary just to check the type of exception thrown, or
00:27 <+perlDreamer> should exception parameters (message and fields) also be checked?
00:28 <@preaction> message and fields. if a change doesn't break a test we're not testing right ;-)
00:29 <+perlDreamer> good point
00:30 <+perlDreamer> I need to write a testing module
00:30 <+perlDreamer> crap
00:30 <+perlDreamer> more delay
00:30 <@rizen> pd you're crazy
00:31 <+perlDreamer> it takes from 2-5 tests to test each exception
00:31 <+perlDreamer> doing the same thing every time
00:31 <+perlDreamer> check the class
00:31 <+perlDreamer> check the message
00:31 <+perlDreamer> then check fields
00:32 <+perlDreamer> It's begging for Test::Deep style set of tests that rolls it all up into 1 test
00:33 <+perlDreamer> give some test method an exception, and tell it what to look for
00:40 <+perlDreamer> yeah, crazy
00:41 <@preaction> crazy like a FOX
00:41 <+perlDreamer> crazy like a lazy perl programmer
01:14 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5653 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (5 files in 5 dirs): started adding cart UI
01:28 <+perlDreamer> preaction: how many teddywedgers does it cost to have the smoke test server run the tests as user webgui instead of root?
01:29 <@preaction> uhm... i believe last time i tried that i blew myself up
01:29 <+perlDreamer> that's strange
01:29 <+perlDreamer> did it hurt?
01:29 <@preaction> but, if i just su webgui; /data/testwebgui.pl --options; exit; it might work
01:29 <@preaction> i'll look into it
01:30 <+perlDreamer> cool
01:30 <+perlDreamer> that's one I owe both you and Haarg
01:30 <+perlDreamer> don't forget
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01:34 <+perlDreamer> the BSDs must have a self destruct mechanism
01:34 <+perlDreamer> hey, you're not supposed to be this user
01:34 <+perlDreamer> pull back and nuke the disk from orbit
01:50 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5654 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (3 files in 3 dirs): a little closer
01:51 <+perlDreamer> Shop::Tax is converted over to exceptions, and they're all tested.
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02:17 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5655 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Tax.pm t/Shop/Tax.t): 
02:17 < CIA-21> WebGUI: Finish testing all of shop tax's exceptions.
02:17 < CIA-21> WebGUI: Convert a few exceptions to better types in import.
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02:50 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5656 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/ShipDriver.pm t/Shop/ShipDriver.t): begin conversion of ShipDriver to use exceptions, in code and in test
03:15 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5657 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Shop/ (CartItem.pm Cart.pm): some fixes
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04:43 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5658 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (6 files in 5 dirs): base cart UI is working
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06:39 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5659 /wrebuild/wre/ (2 files in 2 dirs): ImageMagick fixes for windows
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08:20 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5661 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/ShipDriver.pm t/Shop/ShipDriver.t): convert over to use exceptions. A few tests still need to be written, they are written as todo tests
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14:47 < CIA-21> WebGUI: martin * r5662 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/designdocs/pay.pod: fixed small pod typo in pay.pod designdocs
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16:27 <+MrHairgrease> howdy rizen
16:27 <+MrHairgrease> i'm working on the payment driver stuff
16:27 <+MrHairgrease> and of course i have a question
16:27 <@rizen> howdy
16:28 <@rizen> you are? i though joeri was personally going to do it
16:28 <@rizen> ok, shoot
16:28 <+MrHairgrease> the WG::S::PayDriver->create method has four db fields: pgId, label, class and options
16:29 <+MrHairgrease> but the params in the spec are create( session, options )
16:29 <+MrHairgrease> there's no label in the params
16:29 <+MrHairgrease> should I get the label from the option hashref
16:29 <+MrHairgrease> or should it be passed as an extra param
16:29 <+MrHairgrease> also
16:30 <+MrHairgrease> if i should fetch it from the options hashref, should i delete it from that hash before serializing the hash to be stored in the db?
16:30 <+MrHairgrease> joeri and i are both gonna work on it
16:30 <+MrHairgrease> i'm joeri's minion remember =)
16:32 <@rizen> oh, label should be passed in
16:32 <+MrHairgrease> ok
16:32 <+MrHairgrease> thought so, but just checking
16:32 <+MrHairgrease> tyhanks
16:32 <@rizen> this spec is certainly not perfect. and if you see room for improvement absolutely bring it up
16:33 <@rizen> i've changed things pretty massively in both the cart and the sku since i originally put out the spec
16:33 <@rizen> and i've guided colin through making some big changes in tax and shipping as well
16:33 <+MrHairgrease> ok
16:34 <+MrHairgrease> I pretty much took colins ship test as a base and added some todo's for extra tests
16:34 <@rizen> the spec is really just a bunch of random thoughts that i wrote down as i was going over all the things that the commerce system needed to do
16:34 <@rizen> excellent
16:34 <+MrHairgrease> if other stuff pops up you'll be the first to know it
16:34 <+MrHairgrease> oh
16:34 <+MrHairgrease> one already does
16:35 <+MrHairgrease> shouldn't payment drivers also have a geteditform method
16:35 <+MrHairgrease> like ship drivers
16:36 <+MrHairgrease> and another: is paymentGatewayId generated by WebGUI or do we get it from the psp?
16:37 <@rizen> paymentGatewayId is the local webgui id
16:37 <@rizen> if the psp has a separate id then that will be stored in the options
16:37 <+MrHairgrease> ok
16:37 <@rizen> and yes, it should have a gedEditForm method that should be autogenerated just like ship drivers
16:38 <+MrHairgrease> ok
16:38 <@rizen> btw, i hope you're not too mad at me about replacing the commerce system you wrote
16:39 <@rizen> i paid you to write and design it in a hurry, not to be a be all end all system
16:39 <@rizen> so i figured you were ok
16:39 <+MrHairgrease> actually I have an email of you saying that the product manager is FRICKING AWESOME. and you like it the best in all of webgui
16:39 <+MrHairgrease> so that's enough already
16:39 <@rizen> i still think that
16:39 <@rizen> the variations thing is super cool
16:40 <@rizen> i'm still not 100% sure how to fit that into the product asset...but i'll make it work
16:40 <@rizen> cuz variations rock
16:40 <+MrHairgrease> so does Elvis
16:40 <+MrHairgrease> It's cool to do some core dev stuff again
16:40 <@rizen> elvis used to rock...now he just rots in the ground
16:41 <+MrHairgrease> I've been slammed with customer work the last year or so
16:41 <+MrHairgrease> and, so that you know, elvis still rock on mars
16:41 <@rizen> i hate customer work, which is why i'm so glad to have apeiron, haarg, preaction, and khenn to do it for me
16:41 <@rizen> =)
16:41 <+MrHairgrease> i've read somewhere that he's been abducted by aliens
16:42 <+MrHairgrease> heh
16:42 <+MrHairgrease> the last project was cool to do
16:42 <+MrHairgrease> but since I have only about one day a week available, it consumed all of my webgui time
16:43 <@rizen> btw are you doing anything with the video plugin to the gallery?
16:43 <+MrHairgrease> haven't started on that yet
16:43 <@rizen> i know you're busy, and that's a volunteer gig, i just thought i'd ask
16:43 <@rizen> ok
16:44 <+MrHairgrease> you ask/spam/harass me about stuff like that all the time =)
16:44 <+MrHairgrease> it just has very little use =)
16:44 <+MrHairgrease> the problem starts with the fact that there's only 24 hours in a day...
16:45 <+MrHairgrease> but anyway, the code freeze is May 31st right?
16:45 <@rizen> i know. i've been trying to figure out how to make it 72 hours
16:45 <@rizen> but no luck 
16:45 <@rizen> yes may 31
16:45 <@rizen> if it doesn't get done then it doesn't get done
16:45 <@rizen> no worries
16:45 <+MrHairgrease> I think I'll pull it off
16:46 <+MrHairgrease> we'll see
16:46 <@rizen> however, if it does get done, then i'll publish all the vids from previous year's wucs to it so everyone can laugh at us
16:46 <+MrHairgrease> i know
16:46 <+MrHairgrease> that was one of the reasons to do it
16:47 <+MrHairgrease> you are not gonna sell those vids btw?
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16:50 <@rizen> well wuc speakers get access to the vid library for free
16:50 <@rizen> and so do plain black hosters and support clients
16:50 <@rizen> not planning on selling them directly, but rather just setting up restricted access to them
16:50 <+MrHairgrease> ok, the word 'everyone' triggered the question
16:51 <@rizen> yeah, understood
16:51 <@rizen> ok everyone that is in those three groups will be able to laugh at us
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16:56 < wgGuest96> hello
16:56 < BartJol> hi
16:56 < wgGuest96> i have a question, in a macro can i create a group and add a user to this group?
16:57 <+MrHairgrease> yes
16:57 <+MrHairgrease> you can
16:58 < wgGuest96> and if i want to create a collaboration system, and modify its properties, is it posible, too?
16:58 <+MrHairgrease> yes
16:58 <+MrHairgrease> but I'm not sure if you would wanna do something like that from a macro
16:59 <+MrHairgrease> all  of webgui's components are accessible through the api, so it would be possible to do from a macro
17:01 < wgGuest96> the thing that i want to do is when a user try to register in my site, create a collaboration system and modify its properties
17:01 <+MrHairgrease> ah i see
17:02 < wgGuest96> is like a personal collaboration system simulating a blog
17:02 <+MrHairgrease> in that case what i would do is create a utility script
17:02 <+MrHairgrease> you can run a command on registration
17:02 <+MrHairgrease> or 
17:02 <+MrHairgrease> even better
17:03 <+MrHairgrease> if your webgui is new enough to support execution of a workflow on registration
17:03 <+MrHairgrease> create a workflow activity that add the CS
17:03 <+MrHairgrease> i think the registration workflow trigger was added in 7.4.
17:04 < wgGuest96> if the specific user is only the person that has the possiblitity to modify the CS, is neccesary create a group per user?
17:04 <+MrHairgrease> no
17:04 <+MrHairgrease> just set the edit group to admins
17:05 <+MrHairgrease> and make the user owner of the cs
17:05 <+MrHairgrease> i think that would work
17:06 < wgGuest96> if the user is the owner of the CS, he can edit it
17:07 <+MrHairgrease> i'd think so
17:07 <+MrHairgrease> yes
17:08 <+MrHairgrease> see WebGUI::Asset->canEdit
17:08 < wgGuest96> ok
17:09 < wgGuest96> i am going to try, and if i have a question related, i will be ask you
17:09 <+MrHairgrease> rizen: what if I'd use paymentId instead of paymentGatewayId
17:09 <+MrHairgrease> ?
17:09 <+MrHairgrease> paymentGatewayId implies the id is generated by the psp
17:10 <+MrHairgrease> while paymentId is more consitent with webgui naming
17:10 <+MrHairgrease> and shorter
17:10 <@rizen> the reason i didn't use that was i was concerned that it might be confused with an actual physical payment made by a patron of the shop
17:11 <@rizen> when a programmer disects the system later
17:12 <@rizen> how about just "payId"
17:12 <@rizen> then at least it fits with the module name
17:12 <@rizen> and that would be consistent with shipId on the other side
17:13 <+MrHairgrease> hmm
17:13 <+MrHairgrease> i think it's an ugly word
17:13 <@rizen> i guess it's actually shipperId on the other side
17:13 <+MrHairgrease> but then again
17:13 <+MrHairgrease> it is short
17:13 <+MrHairgrease> yeah it's shipperId
17:13 <+MrHairgrease> which is also confusing
17:14 <+MrHairgrease> or are those really related to a shipper?
17:14 <+MrHairgrease> in stead of an instance of a shipment
17:15 <@rizen> it's an instance of a ship driver
17:16 <@rizen> but again, not a shipment which is an individual package being shipped out
17:19 <+MrHairgrease> what about payDriverId?
17:22 <@preaction> what is in a name?
17:22 <@preaction> that which we call a rose, by any other name, would smell like feet
17:23 <+MrHairgrease> ususally an n, an a, an m and an e
17:23 <@preaction> don't forget that other a
17:23 <+MrHairgrease> is this one of your movie allusions?
17:24 < wgGuest96> MrHairgrease, i have created a CS with the admin user and then i changed the owner to a specific user and in who can post, who can edit, Who can post a thread, i put the admin group
17:24 <@preaction> 'a name' <- has two a's
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> yeah i guess
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> that works
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> the best way to find out is to try it =)
17:25 < wgGuest96> when i am logged in with the specific user and try to add  something to the CS, i obtained an error that i don't have the permission
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> preaction, i was refering to the set of constituent of 'a name'
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> i actually forgot the space
17:26 <@rizen> payDriverId is fine by me
17:26 <@preaction> how dare you forget the most important bit! otherwise it'd be 'aname', which is just crazy!
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> wgGuest96 the owner should be able to post
17:27 <@preaction> is the CS committed?
17:27 <@preaction> can't post to a CS that isn't committed
17:27 < wgGuest96> yes
17:29 <+MrHairgrease> can you start a thread as admin?
17:29 < wgGuest96> yes, i can start a thread as admin
17:30 <+MrHairgrease> in that case the the user that is the owner should be able to post a new thread
17:30 <+MrHairgrease> try to reproduce it on demo.webgui.org
17:30 <+MrHairgrease> and if you succeed in doing that post a bug report
17:32 < wgGuest96> i created the CS with the admin user, then i changedthe owner, but only the admin is the person who can add a thread
17:34 <+MrHairgrease> did you commit after changing the owner?
17:34 < wgGuest96> yes
17:34 <+MrHairgrease> then I dunno, are you able to recreate on demo.webgui.org?
17:35 < wgGuest96> i am going to try in demo.webgui.org
17:35 <+MrHairgrease> ok
17:38 < BartJol> I'm trying to create a test for my macro, can I make an virtual asset (complete with all or some fields, especially the createdBy) in the test, just for testing purposes?
17:39 <@preaction> yes
17:39 < BartJol> just a simple yes or no is enough I'll try to find it myself, for my learning purpose
17:39 < BartJol> great
17:39 <@preaction> or you could create an actual asset and then remove it when you're done
17:40 < BartJol> ah, and you can refer to the asset in the test by something like WebGUI::Asset->new(session, assetId)
17:41 < BartJol> if you actually create the asset
17:41 <@preaction> you can a reference from $importNode->addChild
17:42 <@preaction> so my $asset = WebGUI::Asset->getImportNode( $session )->addChild( ... );
17:43 < BartJol> ah, I'll try to go on from here then
17:43 < BartJol> thanks
17:46 < wgGuest96> MrHairgrease, i have tested the CS in demo.webgui.org, i obtained the same situation, only the admin can add a thread
17:51 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5663 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: wiki pages link to deleted pages
17:51 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5664 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): add another index to SQL Form tables
17:54 < wgGuest96> i have another question, i want to create a survey and add a question, i want that the question can have two diffentes types of anwser, for example multichoice and a text where the user can explain his/her anwser 
17:54 < wgGuest96> can i do that?
17:55 <+MrHairgrease> wgguest96: I can confirm the problem
17:56 <+MrHairgrease> please p[ost a bug report about it
17:56 <+MrHairgrease> afaik a survey question can have only one type
17:56 <+MrHairgrease> but maybe you can use two questions instead
17:56 <+MrHairgrease> one of each type...
17:57 < wgGuest96> ok
17:58 < BartJol> well, after adding a answer, you can also slect at what next? to add a comment field to the answer
17:58 < BartJol> didn't fully tried it out, but the option exists
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18:07 <+MrHairgrease> rizen: what did you have in mind for the plugin settings?
18:07 <+MrHairgrease> stuff like vendor id, urlk to post to
18:07 <+MrHairgrease> etc
18:07 <+MrHairgrease> etc
18:07 <+MrHairgrease> etc
18:08 < BartJol> mmm, it works a bit different then I thought, seems not be able to do that wgGuest96
18:16 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5665 /WebGUI/sbin/spectre.pl: properly daemonize spectre
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18:27 <+MrHairgrease> rizen: just uploaded wre-0.8.3-ubuntu-7.04-feisty-ia32.tar.gz to the sf.net ftp server
18:32 < wgGuest96> BartJol, thanks i solved the problem
18:35 < wgGuest96> i have another question, in one of my sites i want that the users can change the apparience of the sites.  For example in a specific part of the site, they can change the background, the font etc
18:35 < wgGuest96> how can i save the preferences per user?
18:36 < wgGuest96> maybe with a macro
18:40 <@preaction> in the user profile system, and then using the ^User(); macro to get that profile field. probably the best solution
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18:46 <+perlDreamer> preaction: ya big perl hackin', french translating stud!
18:46 < wgGuest96> preaction,  for example if a create a field in user profile related to the background color that the user choose, how can set the value to that field?
18:47 <@preaction> wgGuest96, they would edit their profile, see the field for "Select background color" and change it to what they like.
18:49 <@rizen> file published, thanks mrhg
18:50 < perlmonkey2> The current survey templates have a namespace for each template.  Should I continue this?  ie, the Survey Edit template goes in Survey/Edit ?
18:50 <@rizen> MrHairgrease: yes the plugin settings will contain whatever is variable about that psp
18:50 <@rizen> although url probably isn't one of those things
18:51 < wgGuest96> but i want that the user can change the background only for an specific section
18:51 < perlmonkey2> I'm guessing yes, as if there are multiple edit templates, we'd want them in the same namespace?
18:51 <+perlDreamer> right on the money, perlmonkey2
18:51 <+perlDreamer> it also prevents users from choosing an edit template for displaying surveys
18:51 < perlmonkey2> groovy
18:51 <+perlDreamer> which causes all sorts of problems
18:51 < wgGuest96> if i change using the user profile, the background will be change to all the site?
18:51 < perlmonkey2> hah, wow, there really is a rhyme and reason to all of this :)
18:52 <+perlDreamer> So what's the hardest thing about using the asset system, as an experienced programmer new to wG?
18:52 < perlmonkey2> me?  I find the asset system quite intuative.  I'm just having growing pains learning the WG library.
18:52 <@preaction> wgGuest96, no. the change will be only in the place you put the ^User(); macro.
18:53 <+perlDreamer> like what?  (note, I'm fishing for material for a presentation)
18:53 < perlmonkey2> hah
18:53 <@rizen> and i'm fishing for information for a book
18:53 <@preaction> i hate the name of processPropertiesFromFormPost. it's too long and FromForm is so hard to see if you misspelled it
18:54 <+perlDreamer> rizen: try something by Stephen King :)
18:54 < perlmonkey2> the biggest thing is lack of example code.  It seems that every asset does the same thing in a different way, or uses a lib that might be abstracted away by another lib in the next asset over.
18:54 <@rizen> preaction, but it's very descriptive
18:54 <@preaction> processEditForm, like getEditForm ;-)
18:54 < perlmonkey2> but that is probably because I'm so new to the library.  As I learn more, things seem to make more sense.
18:54 <@rizen> perlmonkey2 what you're looking at there is history
18:55 <@rizen> there is lots of example code..every plugin is an example
18:55 < wgGuest96> ok
18:55 <@rizen> but they're done differntly because of passage of tiem
18:55 <@rizen> we get better over time and write them better
18:55 <@rizen> also, they're all written by different people
18:55 <@preaction> at different stages in their knowledge of WebGUI
18:55 < perlmonkey2> that was what I guessed.  I know WG is a fairly new app, especially in its current form.
18:56 <@preaction> I wrote the Calendar and the Gallery, and now I'm going back over the Calendar to make it look more like the Gallery
18:57 < perlmonkey2> Maybe a list of exercises for new developers.  Use these libs to do X, and these for Y.
18:57 < wgGuest96> preaction, i am going to test and if i have another question i will ask you.
18:57 <@preaction> wgGuest96, don't you have Plain Black Support? might be a good idea to ask them, since I fade in and out of here
18:57 < perlmonkey2> There are three ways to create the new/edit form for an Asset.  Autogenerate, tabforms, and a new template.
18:57 < perlmonkey2> etc etc
18:58 < perlmonkey2> probably 4 ways, since isn't there an htmlform also?
18:58 <@preaction> perlmonkey2, but we need all three ways. and autogenerate / create-your-own-tabform are two sides of the same coin really
18:58 <@preaction> Tabform is just a bunch of HTMLforms
18:58 <@preaction> thrown together with the tabbing glue
18:58 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@166.sub-75-204-143.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI
18:58 <+perlDreamer> autogenerate is a wrapper around tabform
18:58 < perlmonkey2> I'm not saying get rid of them, but maybe some exercises to familarize the new devs with them.
18:59 <@rizen> got it, a form processing chapter in the dev book
18:59 < perlmonkey2> But the automated portions of wg were the hardest to learn.  I'm fairly comfortable with them now, at least enough to ask question.  Now that I'm working on the part that acts as a traditional MVC, I'm not running into anything too difficult.
19:00 <@rizen> going offline...see you guys later
19:00 < perlmonkey2> And it is a well designed system that makes sense, once I had a bunch of help walking through it :)
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19:00 < SDuensin> Good morning.
19:01 < perlmonkey2> Good morning.
19:01 <+perlDreamer> morning, SDuensin
19:01 <+perlDreamer> how's life in Java-ville?
19:03 < SDuensin> Damn good, actually.  :-)
19:03 < SDuensin> Things are working well.
19:04 < SDuensin> Hey, anybody here an Apache guru?
19:05  * perlDreamer is perl-centric
19:05 < SDuensin> Yea, kinda noticed you're not apacheDreamer.  :-P
19:05 <+perlDreamer> why don't you just ask your question, and see what pops up?
19:06 < SDuensin> OK.  I have a ton of web servers I run for development purposes.  At the moment, I've slung them all off oddball port numbers so I can reach them through my firewall...
19:06 <+MrHairgrease> hey pd
19:06 <+MrHairgrease> just made my first perl tests today
19:06 < SDuensin> What I want is for one server to reverse proxy the incoming requests to the correct server based on the name in the HTTP header.
19:06 <+perlDreamer> "You've made your first step into a larger world"
19:07 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin, sounds exactly like WRE's mod_proxy setup
19:07 <+MrHairgrease> well, i took your shipping tests and modified/extended them to work for the pyment stuff
19:07 <+MrHairgrease> sduensin, you could do that with rewriterules
19:07 < SDuensin> So a request to www.site1.com goes to what the proxy box's DNS says is www.site1.com and www.site2.com goes to it's address, etc.
19:07 < SDuensin> Rewrite won't work because the internal boxes aren't visible to the outside world.
19:08 <+MrHairgrease> mod_rewrite can also proxy pages
19:08 <+MrHairgrease> that's what the wre does
19:08 <@preaction> SDuensin, that's a simple reverse proxy, apache's mod_proxy and ProxyPass / ProxyPassReverse will work just fine
19:08 -!- estiven [n=erestrep@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
19:08 <@preaction> the people in the #apache channel might have docs on the situation
19:09 < SDuensin> preaction - but do I have to teach it about every server inside my net?  I just want it to blindly fire at whatever is requested so I don't have to screw with it.  :-)
19:09 < SDuensin> Yea, I know #apache is better, but I was already here.  :-D
19:09 <+MrHairgrease> yeah but mod_proxy cannot make decisions based on http header data right?
19:09  * SDuensin has no idea.
19:10 <@preaction> you don't need to teach it. with a RewriteCond to grab the HTTP host and a RewriteRule with [P] for the proxy
19:10 <@preaction> but, the reverse proxy server will need to know the internal IPs of the hosts
19:10 <+MrHairgrease> yea +> hence use mod_rewrite
19:10 <@preaction> the hosts need to resolve to the internal IPs
19:10 <@preaction> on that box
19:10 < SDuensin> They do.
19:10 <+MrHairgrease> anyway, time to go home
19:11 <+MrHairgrease> see you later
19:11 < SDuensin> mod_rewrite hurts my brain.  But [P] gives me something to look into.
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19:11 <+perlDreamer> preaction: if the proxy box knows the IP addresses, could they be name addressed instead?
19:12 <@preaction> they will be. the RP Apache gets a request for HTTP_HOST, it then does a proxy to that same host, which resolves to a different IP for the RP Apache
19:12 <@preaction> it's... suboptimal... but it might work
19:12 < SDuensin> So what is... optimal...?
19:13 < SDuensin> In the time I've read about doing it in Apache, I could have written it in Java.  :-)
19:17 <@preaction> a vhost for each host the reverse proxy serves and either the same general proxy or a specific proxy for each host.
19:17 <@preaction> i mean, if someone else will have to maintain this someday, the overriding all-encompassing proxy thing might be a bit difficult to understand
19:18 < SDuensin> Na, it's just for me.
19:18 <@preaction> ah, then whatever works
19:18 < SDuensin> All this crap runs in my house.  "Real" servers get dedicated hosting.
19:18 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5666 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Conver the FlatRate shipping driver to use exceptions.
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19:22 < SDuensin> Well, thanks for the brain food.  :-)
19:22 < SDuensin> Now I have a WebGUI question...
19:23 < SDuensin> Do the latest builds of WebGUI (7.4.25) still work with the old WRE?
19:23 <+perlDreamer> no
19:23 <@preaction> JSON incompatibilities
19:23 < SDuensin> I was afraid of that.  :-)
19:23 <+perlDreamer> new wG's need new WREs, for the JSON fiasco of 2k8
19:23 < SDuensin> JSON Fiasco of 2k8?  API changes?
19:23 <@preaction> catastrophe!
19:23  * SDuensin loves JSON.
19:23 <+perlDreamer> oy
19:23 <+perlDreamer> JSON
19:23 <+perlDreamer> rocks
19:23 <@preaction> the horrendous JSON kablooie!
19:24 <+perlDreamer> JSON.pm changed it's API, and wG broke bad
19:24 <+perlDreamer> it's taken us 6 weeks to recover
19:24 <@preaction> Haarg, I'm merging and testing my changes in SVN HEAD now. So I should be done in a bit so you can release after.
19:25 <+perlDreamer> one more module to convert over to exceptions...
19:26 <@Haarg> the annoying thing is that the new version JSON was supposed to be compatible
19:27 <+perlDreamer> it is API compatible, but now it throws exceptions instead of returning undef/''
19:27 <@Haarg> the api isn't compatible though, not if you use the extra parameters
19:27 <+perlDreamer> oh.  I didn't know that.
19:39 < perlmonkey2> How do you go about complex template development?  Do you edit in the asset manager and then view your results in wg?
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19:40 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2: I hack all my templates in vim, and then upload into wG via a script called templateFiler
19:40 <+perlDreamer> it's in the contribs area
19:41 < perlmonkey2> okay
19:41 < perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: while you are hacking on them, how to you view iterations of them?
19:41 <+perlDreamer> iterations?
19:42 <+perlDreamer> my cycle looks like this
19:42 <+perlDreamer> hack, upload, test (view/use) repeat
19:43 <@preaction> Haarg, i lied, this is going to take longer. I can't commit to my experimental branch because SVN hates the fact that I tried to merge from HEAD
19:43 <@Haarg> heh
19:43 < perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: heh, I don't like that process :P  Lots of busy work inbetween cycles.
19:43 < perlmonkey2> maybe I should write something.....
19:44 <@Haarg> svn merging is rather painful
19:44 <@Haarg> i kind of gave up on svnmerge
19:44 <+perlDreamer> back to doing it by hand?
19:45 <@Haarg> actually i'm using git now
19:45 <+perlDreamer> bridged over to svn?
19:45 <@Haarg> yeah
19:45 <+perlDreamer> I keep meaning to learn svk
19:45 <@preaction> imma try to make a patch from what i've changed, then attempt to fix my experimental at some future time
19:46 <@Haarg> i tried svk, but there's several things that bugged me about it
19:46 <+perlDreamer> like what?
19:47 <@Haarg> lack of relocatable working areas is one thing that annoyed me from the start
19:47 <@Haarg> i always ended up having to go hack its config files because they were out of sync with reality
19:48 <@Haarg> and i wasn't impressed with the speed either
19:48 <+perlDreamer> well, it is written in perl
19:53 < perlmonkey2> Ah, for some reason the info in my template's head block is not being used.  If I put the links in the body of the template they work, but if I put them in the head block, they aren't rendered.
19:54 < perlmonkey2> title link ans script tags are in the head block and don't ever get rendered.  Am I doing something wrong?
19:55 <@preaction> put it through the W3C's validator
19:56 <@preaction> no style template. view the source and see if there even is a head block
19:57 < perlmonkey2> preaction: no, when I view the source, it doens't have a head
19:57 < perlmonkey2> but if I take the exact same code, wrap it in <head> tags and put it bad in the body of the template, it works.
19:58 <@preaction> you either need a style template / processStyle, or you need to make the <html> <head> </head> <body> </body> </html> yourself
19:58 < perlmonkey2> Also, it looks like the YUI version in Wg may be a littledated and missing some library files I need.  Should Ijust add them to the yui tree, update my yui tree, or add them to the extras/wobject/Survey dir?
19:58 <@preaction> the yui version in SVN HEAD is 2.5.0, so you can update to that if you'd like
19:58 < perlmonkey2> preaction: Oh, since I'm not running processStyle anything put in the template head portion is ignored...okay, that makes sense.
20:01 < perlmonkey2> /yui/build/menu/assets should contain skins/sam/menu.css
20:01 < perlmonkey2> oh....svn update just added a ton new yui files
20:02 <+perlDreamer> Getting an RSS feed of HEAD is a very good idea :)
20:02 <+perlDreamer> especially if you're developing
20:03 < perlmonkey2> that is a really good idea, but liferea doesn't like WG feeds for some reason.
20:05 -!- wgGuest02 [n=wgGuest0@97.66.185.250] has joined #webgui
20:06 < wgGuest02> Hey perlDreamer!
20:07 -!- MrHairgreas1 [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui
20:07 < wgGuest02> We got a macro testing question for you.
20:07 <+perlDreamer> lay it on me
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20:09 < wgGuest02> Do you have a model of how to test a macro.
20:09 < wgGuest02> Writing a macro to setup a queue type system but need some way of testing it
20:09 <+perlDreamer> well, first of all I always test the interface.
20:10 <+perlDreamer> Then I test using it
20:10 <+perlDreamer> You'd have to tell me more about the system for me to be more specific
20:11 < wgGuest02> bascally this macro will return an account number but it needs to run a select query then an update query
20:12 < wgGuest02> And i need a way to test this.. weather its a test script or just doing it threw webgui
20:12 < wgGuest02> but i like to output text along the way to ensure its doing what i want
20:12 < wgGuest02> but of course in the live version i just need it to return the account number once its called
20:13 <+perlDreamer> I'd use webgui's logging for the interim data
20:13 <+perlDreamer> but It should be very testable through our current test setup
20:14 <+perlDreamer> make a macro call, check the output returned
20:14 <+perlDreamer> verify that the db update happened
20:15 <+perlDreamer> did that make sense?
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20:16 < wgGuest02> can we access resources in webgui like database links
20:17 <+perlDreamer> sure
20:17 <+perlDreamer> you can make any API call that you like
20:17 < wgGuest02> awesome
20:17 <+perlDreamer> all tests start with a session, that gives you pretty much the whole package
20:18 < wgGuest02> alright
20:18 <+perlDreamer> the only thing we're missing now is Cookie handling
20:18 < wgGuest02> What did you mean by test the interface?
20:18 <+perlDreamer> does the macro accept parameters?
20:18 <+perlDreamer> ^macro(param1,param2); ?
20:18 < wgGuest02> Yes
20:18 < wgGuest02> it will
20:19 <+perlDreamer> then you should make sure that the macro behaves well when the parameters aren't there
20:19 <+perlDreamer> that's what I call interface testing
20:19 < wgGuest02> alright
20:19 < wgGuest02> Do you recommand a test script that we can start from?
20:20 <+perlDreamer> t/Macro/a_account.t
20:20 <+perlDreamer> I have a meeting to go to in 5 minutes, but you can leave notes here, or email me questions on the dev list
20:20 <+perlDreamer> btw, who are you?
20:21 < wgGuest02> Josh with knowmad
20:21 <+perlDreamer> glad I could help you, Josh
20:21 < wgGuest02> thank you!
20:21 <+perlDreamer> knowmad seems to be doing a lot of wG work
20:22 < wgGuest02> we try
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20:50 <@preaction> Haarg, i'm done and committed (finally)
20:55 < CIA-21> WebGUI: doug * r5667 /WebGUI/ (11 files in 10 dirs): 
20:55 < CIA-21> WebGUI: add: Calendar List view and associated Help
20:55 < CIA-21> WebGUI: add: Ical Page length
20:55 < CIA-21> WebGUI: add: WWW::Mech tests for Auth and Redirect
20:56 <@Haarg> that'll make a lot of people happy
20:57 <@preaction> that's the plan
20:57 <@preaction> one issue though: i have to ask those happy people to make a template to put in the core. the one that's there is not good at all
20:57 <@preaction> and wasn't meant to be good, for that matter
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22:57 <+perlDreamer> I really like that people are using the Java client to talk to us
22:57 <+perlDreamer> but I wish it would make them identify themselves
23:01 < BartJol> thankfully I've got the sjon-blues to :)
23:07 <+perlDreamer> sing it, brother
23:08 < BartJol> maybe I've got a real song for the WUV
23:08 < BartJol> Wuc
23:08 < BartJol> well
23:09 < BartJol> JSON text must be an object or array (but found number, string, true, false or null, use allow_nonref to allow this) at /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/Config/JSON.pm line 134
23:09 < BartJol> updating to 7.4.22 seemed to go ok
23:09 < BartJol> but it won't restart
23:11 < BartJol> changed the JSON objt to the from_JSON in json.pm
23:11 < BartJol> but this is gonna be a very bad song-text
23:12 < BartJol> is it the Config::JSON?
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23:58 <+perlDreamer> BartJol, if you can, I'd upgrade all the way to 7.4.25
--- Day changed Fri Feb 29 2008
00:01 <+perlDreamer> and then upgrade both JSON and Config::JSON
00:01 <+perlDreamer> that seems to be stable
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00:18 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5668 /translations/Polish/ (5 files in 2 dirs): update_from_translation_server
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00:26 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: WRE Installation - Edited on 2/28/2008 4:15 pm by JayDaley  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/wre-installation
00:34 <+perlDreamer> who decides who catches an exception?
00:34 <@preaction> what do you mean?
00:35 <+perlDreamer> Right now I'm building the wrapper for the shipping driver.
00:35 <+perlDreamer> Shop::Ship
00:35 <+perlDreamer> Shop::Ship has a create method that is a factory class for all the ShipDrivers
00:36 <+perlDreamer> If a ShipDriver constructor should throw an exception when building a requested driver object, should Shop::Ship->create catch it, or should it be allowed to float higher up in the stack?
00:36 <@preaction> what would you do if you caught it?
00:36 <+perlDreamer> that's the question
00:36 <+perlDreamer> I think it should get caught higher up
00:37 <+perlDreamer> But I'm just a chip hacker, not a highly trained computer science guy
00:37 <+perlDreamer> s/chip hacker/dumb, stupid, ugly, frustrated chip hacker/
00:38 <@preaction> i think it should just let it propagate, with the end result either being caught by the www_ method and displaying a friendly error message, or going all the way up and logging an error
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00:39 < wgGuest99> hello
00:41 < wgGuest99> i want to create a collaboration system in a macro, i am using the next sentence  WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Collaboration->newByUrl($session);
00:41 < wgGuest99> the macro don't show me an error but i don't know if really the collaboration system is created
00:41 <@preaction> newByUrl instantiates, doesn't create
00:41 < GooeyOfSteel> Wiki: WRE Installation - Edited on 2/28/2008 4:31 pm by JayDaley  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/wre-installation
00:41 <@preaction> addChild is the only real way to create an asset
00:42  * perlDreamer agrees with the delegate from Wisconsin
00:42 <@preaction> the motion is carried
00:43  * preaction bangs gavel
00:45 < Samus_Aran> anyone know how to stop spectre from filling up hundreds of megabytes of Apache log files ?
00:46 <+perlDreamer> killall -9 'spectre'
00:46 < Samus_Aran> . . .
00:46 <@preaction> which log file? the error log? the access log?
00:46 < Samus_Aran> access
00:46 < wgGuest99> preaction, the sentence will be like this WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Collaboration->addChild({});
00:46 <@preaction> wgGuest99, no. read the documentation for addChild. it's in AssetLineage.pm
00:46 < wgGuest99> the properties will be the template id, the permissions, etc
00:46 < Samus_Aran> it's hitting it constantly, and diluting the log file
00:49 <@preaction> Samus_Aran, anything that requests something from apache goes to the access log
00:50 < Samus_Aran> preaction: so everyone elses webgui has millions of spectre hits showing up ?  I would have assumed that the packaged webgui ignored them
00:51 <@preaction> why? how?
00:52 < Samus_Aran> ?
00:52 <@preaction> why would webgui want to ignore spectre?
00:52 <@preaction> how could webgui ignore spectre and have things still work?
00:52 <@preaction> if apache processes it, apache logs it. that's how it works
00:52 < Samus_Aran> I'm talking about Apache not logging spectre hits
00:53 < Samus_Aran> I'm asking if people using the packaged WebGUI also have the millions of hits showing, or is the packaged Apache instructed not to log them ?
00:54 <@preaction> do you mean the WRE? i don't know what you mean by "packaged WebGUI". and the WRE directs spectre to the modperl instance, while it logs on the modproxy instance
00:55 <@preaction> of course, it doesn't do that by default, but that would do what you're asking
00:57 < Samus_Aran> I did a manual install following the web site instructions, WRE was the packaged one I was talking about, I forgot the acronym
00:57 <@preaction> unless someone specifically directs spectre to the mod_perl instance of the WRE, it will hit the mod_proxy instance and get logged in the access log
00:58 < Samus_Aran> on a manual install, can I 'direct spectre to the mod_perl instance' ?
00:59 <@preaction> i don't know. do you have two instances of apache running?
00:59 <+perlDreamer> time to build a ballot box stuffer
00:59 <+perlDreamer> http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/02/28/2029218&from=rss
01:00 <+perlDreamer> we all know what ubuntu _really_ needs is a good perl based CMS
01:00 < MrHairgreas1> dammit
01:00 < MrHairgreas1> Tavis is sending threat emails
01:00 < MrHairgreas1> Okay Martin! WHAT THE FUUUUUUK?  I'M GONNA BE MESSIN WID YOU MAN! 
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01:00 < MrHairgreas1> what are you feeding him?
01:01 < Samus_Aran> in only a couple weeks of Spectre being up, there are already 933,821 hits
01:01 -!- MrHairgreas1 is now known as MrHairgrease
01:01 < Samus_Aran> it seems excessive
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01:01 < Samus_Aran> preaction: I have one instance running
01:01 <+perlDreamer> Raw meat laced with Murray' Hair Pomade
01:01 <@preaction> then you only have one instance to point spectre at
01:02 <+MrHairgrease> Samus_Aran: spectre talks to webgui through http
01:02 < Samus_Aran> MrHairgrease: yes, I understand that.  I just want it to not log it
01:02 < Samus_Aran> I am trying to figure out how to instruct Apache to ignore it
01:03 <+MrHairgrease> Ah
01:03 <+MrHairgrease> I'm not sure how to do that either
01:03 <+MrHairgrease> maybe you could use some log filter
01:03 <+perlDreamer> you don't
01:03 <+perlDreamer> use you a good log filter
01:04 < cap10morgan> Can you test the creation of a wobject the way it would be created via admin interface (i.e. it runs ProcessPropertiesFromFormPost w/ assetId == 'new')?
01:04 <@preaction> cap10morgan, yes
01:04 <+perlDreamer> func=add ?
01:04 <@preaction> either with getPage func=add or with WWW::Mech
01:05 <@preaction> it's func=editSave actually
01:05 <+perlDreamer> start with func=add, use mech to get/configure the fields, then call editSave
01:05 <@preaction> func=editSave;assetId=new;class=<classname> on the parent asset will create a new asset
01:05 <@preaction> not sure if it's class= or className=, but it is one of those two
01:05 < cap10morgan> and can I get the assetId from that to then start testing w/ the new instance?
01:06 <@preaction> you'd have to look it up
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01:17 < cap10morgan> like this?: http://webgui.pastebin.com/d310ceada
01:23 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5669 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm: add more POD docs about Asset constructors and instanciators
01:23 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5670 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm: forward port better POD docs for Asset instanciators
01:23 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5671 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm: side port better POD docs for Asset instanciators
01:23 <+perlDreamer> preaction: those should help in the future
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01:24 <@preaction> cap10morgan, yeah, that should work
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01:24 <+perlDreamer> ++perlmonkey2
01:24 < Samus_Aran> perlDreamer: what do you mean by "a good log filter" ?
01:25 < cap10morgan> preaction: hmm, ok. when i run it, i seem to be getting the edit form back in $html, with assetId set to 'new' in a hidden form field.
01:25 < Samus_Aran> I don't want spectre hits logged at all.  if there are errors, those are fine to log
01:25 < Samus_Aran> they are pointless and constant, and number in the millions
01:25 <@preaction> Samus_Aran, as i've said numerous times now: If it hits Apache, it gets logged.
01:25 <+perlDreamer> sounds like you need to build a custom logger then
01:26 <@preaction> Apache questions can be directed to #apache
01:26 < Samus_Aran> preaction: unless you tell apache to not log it.  all I ever asked about was if the WRE already has that Apache option enabled, as I am trying to figure out what it is
01:26 <+MrHairgrease> Samus_Aran: http://www.google.nl/search?hl=nl&q=apache+log+filter&btnG=Google+zoeken&meta=
01:27 <+perlDreamer> Samus_Aran: as far we know, there are no special logging instructions in the WRE
01:29 <+MrHairgrease> http://cronolog.org/usage.html
01:29 <+MrHairgrease> maybe you can also bolt the logfilter.org software into your apache
01:29 < Samus_Aran> MrHairgrease: thank you.  however I use a custom log format which is tab separated and easy to parse.  my issue is it being slow to process hundreds of megabytes of needless logging
01:29 <+MrHairgrease> CustomLog "|/path/to/cronolog       [OPTIONS] logfile-spec" [format]
01:30 <+MrHairgrease> if you use some filtering command in stead of /path/to/chronolog i'm pretty sure you can filter all the crap out andprevent it from being included in your log file
01:31 <+MrHairgrease> In other words, in that way you can keep your format and still prevent spectre hits from popping up in your log.
01:32 <+MrHairgrease> As far as i know this is your only option
01:32 <+MrHairgrease> of course you could alway log to /dev/null =)
01:45 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5672 /translations/Polish/Polish/ (Asset.pm Asset_Article.pm): update_from_translation_server
01:45 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5673 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (4 files in 4 dirs): 
01:45 < CIA-21> WebGUI: Add more POD to Pluggable.
01:45 < CIA-21> WebGUI: Add more POD to FlatRate.pm, for the to be written calculate method.
01:45 < CIA-21> WebGUI: Build create and new methods for Ship, convert existing code to throw exceptions.
01:45 < CIA-21> WebGUI: Tests for Ship, that look suspiciously similar to ShipDriver.
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01:53 < Samus_Aran> MrHairgrease: got it working, if you or anyone else is interested
01:53 <+MrHairgrease> sure
01:53 <+MrHairgrease> what did you do
01:57 <+MrHairgrease> Samus_Aran: could you tell me what you did to get it working?
01:58 <+perlDreamer> Samus_Aran: You can always make a wiki page for it
02:01 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5674 /translations/Polish/Polish/ (Icon.pm Asset_Article.pm AuthWebGUI.pm Form_Captcha.pm): update_from_translation_server
02:01 <+perlDreamer> go jdan go!
02:02 < Samus_Aran> (sorry, net at the office died, and thus so did my SSH connection to home)
02:02 <+perlDreamer> We suggested that you make a wiki page
02:02 <+perlDreamer> so that others can benefit from what you've learned
02:02 < Samus_Aran> do I need to create an account, or can anyone add a page ?
02:02 < jdan> perlDreamer: thanks, but tommorow. I mast go sleep. It is 1 am :-(
02:02 < Samus_Aran> I don't have time to create an account at the moment
02:03 <+MrHairgrease> so how did you do it then?
02:03 <+perlDreamer> I'm guessing that you need to create an account.
02:03 < Samus_Aran> SetEnvIf User-Agent Spectre WebGUI_Spectre
02:03 < Samus_Aran> CustomLog /var/log/apache2/access.log General env=!WebGUI_Spectre
02:03 < Samus_Aran> where General is the name of the LogFormat
02:05 <+MrHairgrease> ok
02:05 <+MrHairgrease> cool
02:05 <+perlDreamer> sleep well, jdan
02:05 < jdan> perlDreamer: I would like show you my commerce system which I made in WebGUI 5 version. It support 30 e-shops at Poland. Maybe my knowledge will be helpful.
02:09 < Samus_Aran> MrHairgrease: the setenvif thing sets the variable if it find a match (User-Agent variable = Spectre) and then it specifies to log only if the environment variable WebGUI_Spectre is not set
02:09 <+perlDreamer> I'd love to see it.  I'm sure JT would, too
02:09 < Samus_Aran> *finds
02:09  * Samus_Aran gets back to work
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02:11 < jdan> ok, so see tommorow. 
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02:29 <@rizen> hey pd!
02:30 <@rizen> when is jdan going to show us his code?
02:44 < Samus_Aran> anyone know why, after importing a bunch of themes in wgpkg format, then trying to use the theme, they have no images and are all screwed up looking ?
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02:46 < Samus_Aran> none of them look even remotely like the screenshots did.  even the default webgui theme seems messed odd, as it is completely plain, just like all these ones I now installed
02:47 <@preaction> is there anything in the webgui.log? something like "could not create storage location"?
02:47 < perlmonkey2> When, installed cent and now building a WG env on my faster server, so I can actually develop wg without constantly waiting on a slow machine.
02:47 < Samus_Aran> preaction: I will look
02:48 < Samus_Aran> a lot of "Asset constructor new() requires an assetId." and "Pass in object came back undefined for activity using WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Collaboration"
02:49 < Samus_Aran> and: Couldn't get UI level of WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WeatherData. Root cause: Can't locate object method "getUiLevel"
02:50 < Samus_Aran> okay, I had to scroll up a bunch: Could not set uid/gid
02:50 <@preaction> the Asset constructor new() / Pass-in object came back are symptoms of the same problem: some collab systems got deleted, but their workflows for updating their stuff wasn't
02:50 < Samus_Aran> why would it have that issue ?
02:50 < Samus_Aran> there is one couldn't set permission thing for every new file added
02:50 <@preaction> that's also a non-issue, you imported a package and the user who was trying to chown wasn't root
02:51 <@preaction> couldn't set permissions might be a problem though
02:51 <@preaction> the uid/gid isn't a problem
02:51 <@preaction> is the uploads directory owned by the same user apache is running as?
02:52 < Samus_Aran> I have a script to set the permissions for all the web sites, will run that now
02:54 < Samus_Aran> in the sidebar, there is a new section called Package now, and opening it and clicking one of the items doesn't seem to do anything.  what is it supposed to do ?
02:56 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5675 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Ship.pm t/Shop/Ship.t): add Tests for getShippers, and some code for the method too.
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02:58 < Samus_Aran> I just compared the screenshots of one of the themes (Zenlike) to what is showing up, and it is missing all the images
02:58 <@preaction> it deploys the package inside the current asset
02:58 < Samus_Aran> if the the uid/gid wasn't a problem, then there were no problems importing
02:59 <@preaction> no 404 errors in the apache error log?
03:02 < Samus_Aran> no, just hundreds of: Could not set uid/gid on '/var/www/WebGUI/www/uploads/temp/...'
03:02 < Samus_Aran> the permissions are fine, though
03:02 < Samus_Aran> accessible by the web server
03:03 < Samus_Aran> all I did was go to the assets, browse to import the wgpkg file, clicked import, went to a page, selected the display theme that was installed
03:03 <@preaction> i'd suspect that the themes themselves are broken, if not for that the default style is broken too
03:03 < Samus_Aran> are those the correct steps ?
03:03 < Samus_Aran> I think the default is broken, but I don't know what it is supposed to look like.  does it use any images ?
03:03 < Samus_Aran> the 4.x is the last one I used, and it was far more stylish than the current one
03:04 < Samus_Aran> it's just one box currently
03:04 < Samus_Aran> (the default theme)
03:04 < Samus_Aran> Radix-wrk: it is your theme I am looking at right now, the Zenlike one
03:04 <@preaction> did you use the style wizard? (click Yes, Please in the Site Starter Wizard)
03:05 < Samus_Aran> no, I did the steps I listed above
03:05 <@preaction> if so, then you made your own style, and that style has only one image that I know of, the logo you set in that wizard
03:05 <@preaction> i mean when you created the site
03:05 <@preaction> the initial configuration
03:06 < Samus_Aran> the logo I set in the wizard never appeared
03:06 < Samus_Aran> it just says "logo"
03:07 < Samus_Aran> I uploaded the org's logo successfully, so said the wizard, but it doesn't appear, either
03:08 <@preaction> so it would seem you have problems with all images. what version are you running? there was an issue with one of the 7.4s
03:09 < Samus_Aran> <meta name="generator" content="WebGUI 7.4.22" />
03:09 <@preaction> try upgrading
03:10 < Samus_Aran> to the beta ?
03:10 <@preaction> no, the latest stable
03:10 -!- preaction changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.26-stable / 7.5.4-beta | WRE 0.8.3 ] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org | Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com/
03:10 <@preaction> you can't go to the beta anyway, you're past 7.4.21
03:12 < Samus_Aran> okay, will try an upgrade
03:12 < Samus_Aran> thank you
03:36 <+Radix-wrk> I've imported those themes into 7.4.19 fine and not had an issue.
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06:19 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5676 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (lib/WebGUI/Shop/Ship.pm t/Shop/Ship.t): Finalize getShippers, along with tests.
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06:31 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5677 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 
06:31 < CIA-21> WebGUI: Add a field to the InvalidParam exception.
06:31 < CIA-21> WebGUI: Use it in Ship.pm for documenting bad requested classes, and test
06:31 < CIA-21> WebGUI: its use.
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09:16 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5678 /WebGUI/ (t/Asset/Redirect/mech.t lib/WebGUI/Storage.pm t/Storage.t): fixing test warnings, Storage should always return to the correct directory
09:16 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5679 /WebGUI/docs/ (changelog/7.x.x.txt create.sql): preparing for 7.5.4 release
09:31 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5680 /releases/WebGUI_7.5.4-beta: Release 7.5.4-beta
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15:58 < SDuensin> Morning.
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16:19 < bartjol> morning
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17:00 < lisette> hello
17:01 < lisette> how to do a javascript that recived a result from a macro?
17:03 < bartjol> is it not working?
17:04 < bartjol> can be that the javascript is executed before the macro
17:06 < lisette> and how to?
17:07 <@preaction> macros are executed right before the page is sent to the user, javascript is executed after the page is sent to the user
17:10 < lisette> and how to get a result of macro?
17:10 <@preaction> you put it in the page and it runs/
17:11 < lisette> yes, but my macro return 1 or 0, and i need obtain this result with a fuction javascript
17:11 <@preaction> so put it in a javascript variable/
17:13 < bartjol> sorry, sometimes I confuse server and client side... should be working on that
17:13 < bartjol> but then there shouldn't be a problem, especially if you store it in a variable
17:16 < lisette> i try
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17:22 < lisette> Equalled a variable to the macro? i mean var = ^macro(); ?
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17:30 < bartjol> yes  but don't forget to assign the variable  var myvar=^macro();
17:30 < bartjol> I believe
17:32 < lisette> thanks
17:32 < bartjol> good luck
17:33 < bartjol> mm and maybe yoy should put parenthsesis around the macro: "^macro();" 
17:43 -!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@casr-dev.fwsm2ppuser.ou.edu] has joined #webgui
17:46 <@preaction> yeah. the macro will get processed before the JS, so the JS will never see the ^Macro(); stuff
17:46 <@preaction> it goes: Template, Macros, then Sent to client
17:47 -!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@casr-dev.fwsm2ppuser.ou.edu] has quit [Client Quit]
17:48 -!- apeiron_ is now known as apeiron
17:50 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5681 /tools/translationserver.cgi: added maintainers notes
17:50 -!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@casr-dev.fwsm2ppuser.ou.edu] has joined #webgui
17:52 < bartjol> preaction sorry I learn and forget it seems, but well, it's friday afternoon and beers are calling me
17:56 <+Radix_> enjoy, drink a weinerstephan for me will ya :)
18:01 < bartjol> not yet unfortunately, I'm not allowed to leave before 7.5.4 is translated
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18:20 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5682 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): preparing for 7.5.5 dev
18:21 <+perlDreamer> what is jQuery?
18:29 < bartjol> jQuery is a fast, concise, JavaScript Library that simplifies how you traverse HTML documents, handle events, perform animations, and add Ajax interactions to your web pages.
18:30 < bartjol> :)
18:31 <@preaction> it's JAJSL - Just Another JavaScript Library ;-)
18:33 < bartjol> now, the translation is done, committed, and found 3 typo's in the English
18:33 < bartjol> time for beer
18:33 <@preaction> pfft... correcting my English you jerk
18:33 < bartjol> sorry, but you're allowed tyo correct mu dutch if you want
18:33 < bartjol> and my english :)
18:34 <@preaction> oh, and then insult me by insinuating I don't know Dutch
18:34 <@preaction> well the joke's on you! I don't know Dutch at all!
18:34 <@preaction> er... wait
18:34 < bartjol> bye, have fun
18:34 < bartjol> waiting
18:35 <+perlDreamer> are the typos posted, or did you fix them?
18:35 -!- wgGuest57 [n=wgGuest5@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has joined #webgui
18:35 <@preaction> he posted them ;-)
18:35 <@preaction> they're mainly in the Calendar help i just wrote i think
18:35 < bartjol> poisted them
18:35 <+perlDreamer> want me to fix them?
18:35 <@preaction> if you'd like, go ahead
18:36 < bartjol> can't change the english, unless you give me commit access
18:36 < bartjol> but bye, joeri says I've gotta go
18:36 <@preaction> may want to let me know if it's understandable, i tried to get the whole Calendar / Event vars relationship, but I don't know if it's understandable
18:37 < wgGuest57> hello
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18:37 <@preaction> plus the new Calendar Date/Time Variables page
18:37 <@preaction> wgGuest57, hello
18:37 < wgGuest57> i have a question
18:37 <@preaction> we've got answers
18:38 -!- estiven [n=estiven@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has joined #webgui
18:38 < wgGuest57> i have created a collaboration system using a macro but when it is created a commit version is stablished.  how can i commit this version tag?
18:40 < wgGuest57> each user has the posibility to create his own collaboration system, but how to commit the version tag created per user?
18:40 <+perlDreamer> 1) Read the API docs for the whole Asset system
18:40 <+perlDreamer> 2) Fetch the versiontag from the Collaboration System
18:40 <+perlDreamer> 3) Commit it manually
18:41 <@preaction> just commit the working version tag, read the WebGUI::VersionTag API. look at getWorking and commit
18:41 <+perlDreamer> http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/api
18:41 <@preaction> is there a wiki page on how to create and use wgpkg files yet?
18:41 < wgGuest57> ok
18:41 <@preaction> i'm not finding one
18:41 <+perlDreamer> preaction: calendar docs are in 7.5 or 7.4?
18:41 < wgGuest57> i am going to check
18:41 <@preaction> 7.5
18:42 <@preaction> i added the List View
18:42 <@preaction> and a way to set the iCalendar page size
18:44 <+perlDreamer> just as an FYI, using q|| fixes more problems than using single quotes
18:45 <@preaction> we could use double-quotes and then the quotemeta() perl function and we'd be golden probably
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18:45 <@preaction> i still say it should be some sort of serialization / markup language in there. then we wouldn't have parsing problems at all
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18:48 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5683 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Asset_Calendar.pm: update_from_translation_server
18:48 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5684 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed some typos in the calendar help
18:51 < wgGuest57> i want to know the content of this book, Become an Active WebGUI Community Member.  What can i find in it?
18:54 < wgGuest57> we want to know more documentation about create wobjects
18:59 <+perlDreamer> there are examples on the wiki of how to build wobjects
19:00 <+perlDreamer> the other one is a recording of a live web talk, it isn't a book
19:04 <+perlDreamer> later this year, the WebGUI Developer's book will be out
19:16 <@preaction> http://www.plainblack.com/pr/staff/blog/its-back-the-calendar-list-view-needs-your-help <- it's away. Open contest for a Calendar List View Template
19:17 <+perlDreamer> To answer your questions
19:17 <+perlDreamer> Everything. See #1. No
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19:21 <@rizen> and i'm back in the game
19:22 <+perlDreamer> welcome back player
19:22 <+perlDreamer> your health is at 97%
19:22 <+perlDreamer> and you are fully equipped
19:22 <@rizen> feels like 85%
19:22 <@rizen> fully equipped is good though
19:23 <@rizen> it's time to kick ass and chew bubble gum, and i'm all out of gum
19:23 <@rizen> so where are we at re: commerce
19:23 <@rizen> any significant developments
19:24 <+perlDreamer> All modules converted to exceptions, with tests
19:24 <+perlDreamer> ShipDrivers, done, except for the calculate method and UI
19:24 <+perlDreamer> Tax, done, except for calculate method and UI
19:24 <+perlDreamer> Ship done, except for getOptions and UI
19:24 <+perlDreamer> I need more cart contents to finish them out
19:24 <+perlDreamer> which reminds me
19:25 <+perlDreamer> how are Product and Sku related?
19:25 <@rizen> product is a subclass of sku
19:25 <@rizen> or rather will be
19:25 <@rizen> or at least WebGUI::Asset::Sku::Product will be
19:25 <+perlDreamer> I was a little confused, since it isn't in the sku docs.
19:25 <+perlDreamer> right
19:26 <@rizen> in the docs i kind of use the words item, sku, and product interchangably
19:26 <@rizen> maybe i shouldn't
19:26 <@rizen> but to me their all just stuff you sell
19:26 <+perlDreamer> oh, and I need a consult on this:
19:26 <+perlDreamer> perl -lane 'printf("bcd80 %40s bcd80 %40s\n", @F);'
19:26 <+perlDreamer> any idea why it would not work?
19:27 <@rizen> you're missing s on the front of prinf
19:27 <@rizen> printf
19:27 <+perlDreamer> printf is a valid function
19:27 <+perlDreamer> perldoc -f printf
19:28 <@rizen> oh
19:29 <+perlDreamer> it must be a vim problem, since it works on the command line
19:29 <@rizen> what does -lane do
19:29 <+perlDreamer> -l autoremove line endings
19:29 <@rizen> e is execute
19:29 <+perlDreamer> -a autosplit into the @F array using whitespace by default
19:29 <+perlDreamer> -n, wrap the -e code in this:
19:29 <+perlDreamer> while (<>) { __your_code__ }
19:30 <+perlDreamer> as opposed to -p
19:30 <+perlDreamer> while (<>) { __your_code__ } continue { print }
19:30 <+perlDreamer> oh, -l not only removes line endings, but if you use -p it puts them back for you, too
19:30 <+perlDreamer> and -i, edit in place
19:31 <+perlDreamer> memorizing those saves me hours in text editors
19:33 <+perlDreamer> I need some richer cart content to really test ShipDriver and Tax
19:34 < CIA-21> WebGUI: doug * r5685 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): 
19:34 < CIA-21> WebGUI: fix: List View now begins at the beginning of the day of the date/time passed in
19:34 < CIA-21> WebGUI: removed a spurious warning
19:34 <+perlDreamer> since you can't ship Donations
19:34 <+perlDreamer> and I suspect they aren't taxable, either
19:35 <+perlDreamer> but I can always write the tax table converter in the meantime
19:35 <+perlDreamer> and I'm down 8 pounds so far :)
19:36 <@rizen> they are taxable by default
19:36 <@rizen> unless you say otherwise
19:36 <@rizen> and you can make them shippable if you like
19:37 <@rizen> regardless i guess i'll start working on tax ui and calculations
19:38 <+perlDreamer> I'd have to hack the Donation asset to make them shippable.
19:39 <+perlDreamer> and I was thinking that legally you couldn't tax a donation
19:41 <@preaction> laws differ and change though
19:41 <@rizen> pd i'm telling you that the donation asset is taxable
19:41 <@rizen> i don't care whether it is locally legal or not
19:42 <@rizen> i cannot make decisions about what someone may or may not use the donation asset
19:42 <@rizen> maybe some people will use it for just straight payments
19:42 <@rizen> let's say i sell something on ebay
19:42 <@rizen> then i tell people go to my site and pay for what you bought
19:43 <@rizen> they type in the amount
19:43 <@rizen> and pay
19:44 <+perlDreamer> maybe we should call it Payment, then, since Donations are a subset of that
19:44 -!- Samus_Aran [n=ILL@about/linux/supportwhirlwind/SamusAran] has quit [""You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake." -- Jeannette Rankin"]
19:44 <@rizen> feel free to go rename it
19:45 <@rizen> i don't care enough about labels to worry about it
19:46 <@rizen> besides it's more likely to be used as donations than payments
19:46 <@rizen> that's my guess at least
19:47 <@rizen> if we keep worrying about stuff that doesn't matter though we're not going to ever complete the system
19:47 -!- Samus_Aran [n=ILL@about/linux/supportwhirlwind/SamusAran] has joined #WebGUI
19:47 <+perlDreamer> that's true, and worrying is one of my specialties
19:52 <@rizen> man i'm dumb sometimes
19:52 <@rizen> stupid little typos cause hours of grief
19:53 <+perlDreamer> tax problems?
19:54 <@rizen> cart item problems
19:54 <@rizen> fixed now though, so i can move on to tax
19:54 <@rizen> actually...
19:54 <@rizen> which would you prefer to integrate into the cart...tax or shipping?
19:54 <@rizen> i'll do the other
19:55 <@rizen> oh wait
19:55 <@rizen> nobody has done the address book stuff yet have they?
19:55 <@rizen> i have to do that before we can integrate either
19:55 <@rizen> cuz you can't calculate either without an address
19:56 < CIA-21> WebGUI: jt * r5686 /branch/WebGUI_Commerce/lib/WebGUI/Shop/CartItem.pm: stupid typo that i should kick myself in the nutz for
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20:00 <@rizen> ooh that brings up an interesting consequence that i hadn't thought of before
20:01 <@rizen> the user isn't logged in yet, how can they choose from an address book
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20:28 <+perlDreamer> In the past we've forced them to be logged in to use the commerce
20:29 <+perlDreamer> past = Commerce vs Shop
20:29 <@rizen> yeah, i think i've got it figured out
20:30 <@rizen> i'm going to attach their address book to a session and then when they log in, convert it to a user
20:30 <@rizen> and if they already have an address book after logging in, i'll merge the two
20:30 <@rizen> cuz i don't want people to have to log in until they can see the final bill of sale
20:30 <@rizen> which is the shopping cart configured with shipping, tax, and coupons
20:31 <+perlDreamer> which requires the addressbook
20:31 <@rizen> yup...so that's why i'm going to do the conversion thing
20:31 <@rizen> might have to put a note on the address book page of "if you were logged in, you could see your existing address book
20:31 <@rizen> or something like that
20:31 <+perlDreamer> yeah
20:32 <+perlDreamer> most of the carts that I use recommend logging in before checkout
20:32 <+perlDreamer> or at the start of checkout
20:33 <@rizen> yeah, we're going to force them to be logged in before checkout
20:33 <@rizen> this is just for the cart screen
20:34 <@rizen> or you could tell him to behave or i'll knee cap him, pull out his fingernails with a rusty pair of pliers, and finish up by cutting his vocal cords with a box cutter.
20:34 <+perlDreamer> worse, make him replumb your house
20:35 <@rizen> ooh, that would be worse
20:35 <+perlDreamer> Disney is supporting OSCON this year
20:35 <@rizen> oh, then i better be on my best behavior
20:35 <@rizen> so i can get cool disney swag and contracts
20:36 <+perlDreamer> yeah
20:36 <+perlDreamer> Disney.com runs on WRE
20:36 <@rizen> i'm officially faxing in my booth registration today
20:36 <+perlDreamer> that's a headline
20:48 < vayde> rizen, do you remember off the top of your head the method for finding which Apache2 package a given method is in?
20:48 <+perlDreamer> google?
20:48 < vayde> there's a simple package somewhere in the api
20:48 < vayde> you can do it from the command line
20:49 -!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@wsip-70-164-69-210.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #webgui
20:50 <@rizen> never knew there was one 
20:50 <@rizen> i just search the docs over at perl.apache.org
20:50 < vayde> when I find it again, I'll post back
20:50 <@rizen> and that tells me
20:54 < vayde> http://perl.apache.org/docs/2.0/api/ModPerl/MethodLookup.html#Command_Line_Lookups
20:54 < vayde> there it is
20:57 <+perlDreamer> cool! thanks, vayde
20:57 < vayde> anytime I can give back
20:59 < vayde> oh btw rizen, thanks for making me prepare that WUC seminar on the wG handler that I never gave.  
20:59 < vayde> there's a bunch of peeps here that think perl cgi scripting == ModPerl::Registry scripts
21:00 < vayde> they're seriously being schooled 
21:09 < wgGuest57> hello
21:11 < wgGuest57> if i want that i a user can change the color of a specific section in my site, how could i do that?
21:24 <@preaction> put your CSS in a snippet. put a User Profile Field that allows them to pick a color. Put a macro in that CSS Snippet that pulls the profile field's value and puts it in the CSS.
21:24 <@preaction> the ^User("profilefield"); macro does that
21:24 <@preaction> and i could swear i answered this question yesterday
21:24 <@preaction> do we have logs still?
21:24 <+perlDreamer> yes
21:25 <@preaction> you think xdanger would object if i put them in the /topic?
21:25 <+perlDreamer> I don't know
21:28 < wgGuest57> preaction, i will create a profile field to show all the name colors that i want to show
21:29 < wgGuest57> the field could be a selected box
21:29 <@preaction> yes
21:29 <@rizen> vayde: glad to hear it
21:31 < ckotil> Is it possible to grant admin access by IP address?
21:31 <@preaction> settings > adminIp i think
21:32 <@preaction> under Misc maybe?
21:32 < ckotil> im thinkng about a dead link crawler that would be able to crawl protected content
21:43 <@preaction> should work. dunno how that setting works
21:57 < cap10morgan_> i'm doing some testing in 7.5.4 (using prove), but i'm not seeing the errorHandler output. shouldn't that go to stdout when testing?
21:58 <@rizen> no
21:58 <@rizen> that gets hidden
21:58 <@rizen> either do perl test.t
21:58 <@rizen> or prove -v test.t
21:58 <@rizen> i think it's -v
21:58 <@rizen> prove pretty much hides everything by default
21:58 < cap10morgan_> yeah, i'm doing prove -v
21:59 <@rizen> try just perl test.t and see if you get a better result
21:59 < cap10morgan_> nope, still not seeing it
21:59 <@rizen> did you try triple clicking? i hear that works. =
21:59 <@rizen> =)
22:00 < cap10morgan_> hehe
22:01 < cap10morgan_> i'm trying to see output from something that's being triggered in the END block, which is just $versionTag->rollback();
22:01 < cap10morgan_> maybe that's why
22:02 < cap10morgan_> oh, nope, it should be triggering some before that too
22:02 < cap10morgan_> hmm...
22:02 <@rizen> perlDreamer who is not here at the moment is the resident expert on testing
22:02 <@rizen> he could probably tell you in two heartbeats
22:02 < cap10morgan_> oh, ok
22:03 < cap10morgan_> i'll ask him then
22:03 <@rizen> he should be back in 30 minutes or so
22:03 < cap10morgan_> cool
22:54 <@preaction> rizen, can we add Module::Pluggable to WebGUI? WebGUI::International::getLanguages() only searches /data/WebGUI/lib, not all the directories in @INC
22:55 <@rizen> i'd have to research module::pluggable to understand what it does and what it's prereqs are
22:56 <@rizen> it's not something i can say yes or no to right at this momeent
22:56 <@preaction> k
22:57 <@preaction> it's a client site, so i'll write the code and put it into their local/ directory, so if/when you say "yes" we have something to implement right away
23:12 <@rizen> preaction does Module::Pluggable do basically what webgui pluggable does only a bit better? 
23:13 <@rizen> cuz reading it, that's what it looks like
23:13 <@preaction> no, Module::Pluggable returns a list of class names based on the given parameters
23:14 <@rizen> but it can also instanciate them it says
23:14 <@preaction> yeah, it's the list thing that i need
23:15 <@preaction> WebGUI::Pluggable is optimal for working with known class names. Module::Pluggable does unknown class names
23:16 <@preaction> when we've been doing raw directory parsing ourselves
23:16 <@rizen> i'm not getting how this module works by reading pod, so until i have a chance to play with it i'm going to have to say no for it going into core
23:16 <@preaction> it takes the directories in @INC and searches them for modules under a namespace you specify, say WebGUI::i18n
23:16 <@rizen> it seems to me like it overlaps with WebGUI::Pluggable, and if that's the case then we should either modify WebGUI::Pluggable, or replace WebGUI::Pluggable
23:17 <@rizen> yeah, but that's not ALL it does
23:17 <@rizen> i know what you want out of it
23:17 <@rizen> and understand that
23:17 <@rizen> but i want to understand all that it does
23:19 <@rizen> if i can finish what i'm working on before vrby gets here then i'll spend some time playing with it this afternoon
23:20 <@preaction> no rush. i can do things without needing it to be in the core by 7.5.5
23:33 <@preaction> or... it might be better to roll-our-own. Module::Pluggable is severely limited... i just want WebGUI::i18n::* not WebGUI::i18n::*::*, and I'm not seeing any way to do it
23:34 <@preaction> just a simple: getClasses( [ directories or class path ], { options like recurse => } );
23:34 <@preaction> well. not so simple i guess
23:35 <@rizen> adding our own stuff to WebGUI::Pluggable if no cpan module does what you need
23:38 <@preaction> i'll end up doing it, but this is low-priority now that it's going to take that long
23:43 < wgGuest57> hello
23:45 < wgGuest57> i am going to create a group in a macro.  I have been checking the api and i found the next sentence to create a group $g = WebGUI::Group->new($session,3); or  $g = WebGUI::Group->new($session,"new"); 
23:47 <+perlDreamer> cap10morgan_: In WebGUI::Test.pm, it mocks the logging object so that you can test error logging without parsing the WebGUI.log file
23:48 <+perlDreamer> it needs to be made into a switch, instead of being unconditional
23:48 <+perlDreamer> that's where your error output is going
23:48 < wgGuest57> i am testing but i am obtaining the next error WebGUI::Group->new called with a non-existant groupId:[User_prueba]
23:48 < cap10morgan_> perlDreamer: ok, but what do i have to do actually see it? (I'm a Perl testing n00b)
23:49 <+perlDreamer> check these variables
23:49 <+perlDreamer> $WebGUI::Test::logger_warns
23:49 <+perlDreamer> _debug
23:49 <+perlDreamer> _info
23:49 <+perlDreamer> _error
23:49 < cap10morgan_> oh, ok. so it basically treats those vars as output buffers
23:49 <+perlDreamer> right
23:49 < cap10morgan_> for the different logging levels
23:49 < cap10morgan_> ok
23:49 < cap10morgan_> thanks
23:49 <+perlDreamer> actually, I've been meaning to fix that for a while
23:50 <+perlDreamer> hold on a sec, and I'll commit a fix
23:50 < cap10morgan_> sweet, thanks
23:50  * cap10morgan_ realizes he'd better start using SVN HEAD for testing
23:50 <+perlDreamer> yes :)
23:50 -!- cap10morgan_ is now known as cap10morgan
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23:54 < wgGuest79> hello
23:54 <@rizen> pd do you think we should allow for multiple line addresses, or just make people type the whole address on one line?
23:54 <@rizen> i like address on one line
23:54 <@rizen> Radix_ can you tell me whether Oz would have any implications on address and line numbers?
23:54 <+perlDreamer> I think people are used to seeing their addresses on multiple lines
23:54 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@231.sub-75-204-20.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:55 <@rizen> nuba you too
23:55 <@rizen> and xdanger too
23:55 <+perlDreamer> but with form completion in the browsers nowadays, I can't see any other reason to prefer one over the other.
23:55 < cap10morgan> rizen: I thought read / heard somewhere that you were using something that lets you maintain your own separate svn repo of WebGUI but resync it w/ upstream from time to time (or maybe it's built in to the WDK). Am I smoking crack?
23:55 <+perlDreamer> that would be either git or SVK
23:55 <+perlDreamer> they have SVN plugins
23:55 <@rizen> Haarg is doing that
23:56 <@rizen> i'm not
23:56 < cap10morgan> ah, ok
23:56 < wgGuest79> perlDreamer, can you help me?
23:56 <+perlDreamer> what is your question, wgGuest79?
23:56 < cap10morgan> Haarg: what are you using to keep a local svn repo of WebGUI?
23:56 < cap10morgan> perlDreamer: ok, i'll look into those
23:57 <+perlDreamer> Haarg uses git
23:57 <@Haarg> for dev, yes
23:57 <+perlDreamer> He tried SVK and had a bad experience with it
23:57 < wgGuest79> i am using the next sentence to create a group in a macro $g = WebGUI::Group->new($session,3); or  $g = WebGUI::Group->new($session,"new");
23:57 <+perlDreamer> create a brand new group, or access an existing group?
23:57 < wgGuest79> create a brand new group
23:58 <+perlDreamer> then you need to use the create method, not new
23:58 < wgGuest79> new  is to access an existing group?
23:59 <+perlDreamer> yes
23:59 <+perlDreamer> new => pull an existing group
23:59 <+perlDreamer> create => make a new group
--- Log closed Sat Mar 01 00:00:00 2008