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01:31 < perlmonkey2> Oh man....this sucks.  I deleted a webgui page that another webgui page was grabbing an RSS feed from.  Now a few hours later the site is crashed and won't come back up.  Mysql won't restart and modproxy.error.log is saying error reading status line from remote server 
01:32 < perlmonkey2> Where does the wre write the mysql error logs to, I don't see them in var/log
01:36 < perlmonkey2> What does this mean when I try to manually start mysql? Starting MySQL ERROR! Couldn't find MySQL manager or server
01:39 <@preaction> are you running the right environment?
01:46 < perlmonkey2> network issues
01:46  * perlmonkey2 really really really wishes his client would have went with PB hosting.
01:47 < perlmonkey2> although if you could point me at anything that could help me with WRE backups, I'd appreciate it.  The wiki search didn't return anything.
01:50 <@preaction> you mean automatic backups using wre/sbin/backup.pl?
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02:27 < perlmonkey2> preaction: yes.  The backup users doesn't have permissions, and I can't connect to the wre mysql with the mysql CL client.
02:29 <@preaction> so you have a backup user, and in that user's cron you source in the WRE's environment and then run backup.pl?
02:29 <@preaction> i think you have to do it as root probably
02:30 < perlmonkey2> preaction: I am running the wre sbin/backup.pl as root, but the error is that the backup mysql user doesn't have permissions.
02:30 < perlmonkey2> Couldn't connect to MySQL because DBI connect('test;host=localhost;port=3306','backup',...) failed: Access denied for user 'backup'@'localhost' (using password: YES) at /data/wre/lib/WRE/Mysql.pm line 93
02:30 < perlmonkey2>  at ./backup.pl line 79
02:30 <@preaction> oh. you might need to set up that user, or use the root user
02:30 < perlmonkey2> I would, but I can not connect to the mysql server with the mysql client.
02:31 < perlmonkey2> Is there something I need to set up to connect to the wre instance of mysqld?
02:31 <@preaction> not that i know of
02:31 <@preaction> are you getting a permissions denied using the cli client too?
02:32 < perlmonkey2> no, just
02:32 < perlmonkey2> [root@li6-7 etc]# mysql -uwebgui -p
02:32 < perlmonkey2> Enter password: 
02:32 < perlmonkey2> ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock' (2)
02:32 <@preaction> you aren't using the right environment
02:32 < perlmonkey2> DOH!
02:32 < perlmonkey2> arg!
02:33 < perlmonkey2> dumb, stupid perlmonkey2
02:33 < perlmonkey2> I beg forgiveness for wasting your time.
02:33 <@preaction> i need someone who isn't a mac fanboi to give an opinion on a Mac Mini
02:34 <@preaction> it's about $1050 to get the one I want, tricked out with power, but i could probably fix my newly-broken computer for a tenth of that
02:34 <@preaction> i'm just tired of dealing with computer hardware
02:35 < perlmonkey2> A Mac Mini sounds cool
02:35 <@preaction> 1) Web / Internet 2) DVD / Music 3) Emulators 4) BitTorrent. the only problem is 4 requires massive amounts of hard disk space, which the mini don't have
02:35 <@preaction> those are the 4 things my tv computer currently does
02:35 <@preaction> i think i should move number 4 out to another, dedicated system
02:36 <@preaction> i've got a computer that's been sitting dead for at least 4 months now, i could resurrect it with the parts from the TV computer
02:37 < perlmonkey2> the mac mini's drive not only is small but it is slow.... at 5400 rpm laptop drive.
02:38 <@preaction> i don't think the mini's designed with high performance in mind
02:38 <@preaction> i think it's single-task oriented
02:38 <@preaction> a mac pro would do the job, but those are even more expensive
02:40 < perlmonkey2> I have a Q6600 4 GB DDR667, 350GB 7200 SATA2, with case for $700.
02:40 <@preaction> you're selling?
02:40 < perlmonkey2> no
02:40 < perlmonkey2> hah
02:41 < perlmonkey2> That's what I built it for
02:41 < perlmonkey2> It is my main desktop/workstation
02:41 <@preaction> i think i built my TV computer for about that. with twice the storage and half the RAM. $150 on the GFX card itself.
02:41 < perlmonkey2> and that was like last August...things should be cheaper.
02:42 <@preaction> that's just it though, building computers is boring. maintaining hardware is boring
02:42 <@preaction> and frustrating
02:42 < perlmonkey2> I agree
02:42 <@preaction> just out of the blue the TV computer (selene) starts a spontaneous reboot cycle
02:42 < perlmonkey2> but a lot cheaper
02:42 < perlmonkey2> suck
02:42 <@preaction> i'm willing to bet it's due to the cooling system dying
02:42 < perlmonkey2> btb, where does the wre write the mysql logs too.  It still wont' start up.
02:42 <@preaction> or the power supply dying
02:43 < perlmonkey2> power is likely
02:43 <@preaction> should be /data/wre/var/mysqldata/something.err
02:43 < perlmonkey2> cooling is easy to check....does it reboot right afte ryou start it, or after it is working.
02:44 <@preaction> after it's working for a while, but hasn't finished the initial load. OS gets booted, XP starts and gets into explorer, then before it's done loading components and drivers and such, it bombs
02:44 <@preaction> then it either gets a little less further next time, or just sits there spinning
02:44 < perlmonkey2> sounds like power
02:45 <@preaction> and the case i have under the TV has a special, tiny power supply... gotta find one of thems...
02:45 < perlmonkey2> Hmm, ./wreservice.pl --start mysql 
02:45 < perlmonkey2> Start MySQL:          FAILED!
02:45 < perlmonkey2> Yet nothing in the mysql.err logs
02:45 <@preaction> not that, using mysqld_safe or something
02:46 <@preaction> that wreservice.pl script hides a lot of things
02:46 < perlmonkey2> k, I'll try it directly
02:46 <@preaction> might be in a log though, /data/wre/var/logs somewhere perhaps
02:47 < perlmonkey2> No, nothing in the logs.
02:47 < perlmonkey2> I'm running tail -f var/logs/* 
02:47 < perlmonkey2> [root@li6-7 mysql]# ./mysql.server start
02:47 < perlmonkey2> Starting MySQL ERROR! Couldn't find MySQL manager or server
02:50 <@preaction> mysql.server is a shell script, right?
02:50 < perlmonkey2> I think it is the actual mysql binary...I'll open it
02:50 < perlmonkey2> oh, sheel
02:51 < perlmonkey2> wife is sick...brb
03:01 < perlmonkey2> I bet this is because I changed the company name .... It went from working fine to a few hours later, not working and no one did anything.
03:02 <@preaction> doesn't sound like that would screw things up
03:03 < perlmonkey2> But mysql keeps failing to start and there is nothing in the logs
03:04 <@preaction> it says something like "Couldn't find MySQL manager or server", which means that the shell script doesn't know where to look for the mysqld
03:04 < perlmonkey2> but I've ran the setenv script
03:05 < perlmonkey2> I can see the LD env params 
03:05 <@preaction> right, i had this happen to me once, and i don't remember how i fixed it or what was actually wrong
03:05 < perlmonkey2> wow, this really sucks...I've got a client wondering what happened to his site.
03:06 <@preaction> i just remember i looked in that script and echoed out the paths the script got
03:06 < perlmonkey2> I guess I'll tell him he shoul dhave wnet with PB
03:06 < perlmonkey2> k
03:06 < perlmonkey2> I'll try that.
03:06 <@preaction> did you try running /data/wre/prereqs/bin/mysqld_safe ?
03:09 < perlmonkey2> not yet
03:09 < perlmonkey2> something is horribly wrong.....
03:09 <@preaction> that's the shell script i was talking about, not the other thing
03:13 < perlmonkey2> okay, finally got the error output: 080210 20:12:42 [ERROR] /data/wre/prereqs/libexec/mysqld: Can't create/write to file '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.pid' (Errcode: 2)
03:13 < perlmonkey2> 080210 20:12:42 [ERROR] Can't start server: can't create PID file: No such file or directory
03:13 < perlmonkey2> should I create a mysqld directory in /var/run?
03:14 < perlmonkey2> what has happened?
03:14 <@preaction> it shouldn't be trying to do that. you can specify on the command-line what you want the pid file to be i think. somewhere in that shell script is the key
03:15 < perlmonkey2> But hwo would the my.cnf file be changed?
03:15 <@preaction> it wasn't. that script can override the my.cnf file
03:15 < perlmonkey2> wait a second.....there shouldn't be a my.cnf in /etc/
03:16 <@preaction> no, there shouldn't
03:16 <@preaction> it shouldn't be looking for one either. that script shouldn't have any reference to it
03:16 < perlmonkey2> looks like my clients two bit hoster does one of those "reimages" where htey "auto-fix" anything tha tisn't normal.
03:17 < perlmonkey2> removing the /etc/my.cnf fixed it.
03:17 <@preaction> nice
03:17 < perlmonkey2> the wre install isntructions say to copy it to .old
03:17 < perlmonkey2> wow.....maybe it isn't too late for me to get them to move to PB.
03:18 <@preaction> we have VPS at reasonable rates
03:22 < perlmonkey2> the client didn't go with PB because of disk.
03:23 < perlmonkey2> But if their two bit hoster can't stop playing with the os config files, it wont' matter how much disk they have.
03:34 < perlmonkey2> well this is no good, the root password for mysql isn't working, now that i can connect.
03:34 <@preaction> uhoh
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03:36 < perlmonkey2> I can reset it, but how did it get changed :D
03:37 < Samus_Aran> does anyone know why WebGUI might be running in ultra slow motion ?  it is taking an average 5 to 10 seconds to load a page, on an unloaded server with tons of RAM
03:37 < Samus_Aran> the spectre perl daemon keeps on ending up with hundreds of MiB of RAM used.  and wait state is the main thing that seems to be shooting up in top
03:37 < Samus_Aran> the apache processes are using little CPU themselves
03:38 < Samus_Aran> I am using the latest stable release.  I haven't used WebGUI since version 4.x, which was lightning fast even on an old system, so I'm not too sure what's going on now
03:39 < perlmonkey2> hey, I'm having that exact same problem
03:39 < perlmonkey2>  Does the wre phone home and autoupdate?
03:39 < Samus_Aran> perlmonkey2: hm
03:40 < Samus_Aran> what is a wre ?
03:41 < perlmonkey2> webgui runtime environment
03:41 < Samus_Aran> ah.  I don't know much about the WRE, as I installed manually.  the server has other web sites and databases on it, so I can't use the WRE
03:41 <+Radix-wrk> Samus_Aran: I'd highly recommend the wre if you want a fast/optimised webgui setup these days
03:42 < Samus_Aran> Radix-wrk: we have only one server, and it already runs database and web content.  not sure how the WRE could be usable in such a situation
03:43 < perlmonkey2> Radix-wrk: I'm on my second server meltdown using the wre....never had any problems with source.
03:43 < Samus_Aran> does anyone know if this ultra sluggy issue is just with the most recent release, or if it has been a problem for people for a while ?  (or is it just me)
03:43 <+Radix-wrk> Fair enough - though you may want to look at some of the settings for the wre and how it's set up to get an idea of how to optimise things
03:43 < perlmonkey2> I can't log into the database with root, even though I reset the password
03:43 < perlmonkey2> or at least think I did.
03:43 < Samus_Aran> I followed the guide more or less exactly.  it is up and running without visible errors
03:44 < Samus_Aran> but the spectre script is using huge amounts of RAM, which doesn't seem normal to me.  and there is apparently heavy disk writing, as the IO wait time goes up to 60% for many seconds after I do something on the WebGUI site
03:45 < Samus_Aran> I don't mind up or downgrading if it might help
03:45 <@preaction> what is spectre spinning its gears on?
03:45 < Samus_Aran> I have no content yet ... but it took me ten minutes just to delete a couple items off the menus.  =/
03:45 <@preaction> if you turn off spectre, does the site respond faster?
03:46 < Samus_Aran> preaction: I thought spectre was required for it to run.  or is it only required for versioning ?  I will most likely not be using versioning on this site, just server backups
03:46 < Samus_Aran> I will try closing spectre
03:46 <@preaction> spectre is required for executing workflows and scheduled tasks (which spawn workflows). it's the offline execution engine. 
03:46 <@preaction> things will work without it, but some things won't happen unless it's running
03:46 <@preaction> like sending mail
03:46 <@preaction> or committing version tags
03:47 < Samus_Aran> well, the contact form needs to e-mail the message
03:47 < Samus_Aran> does that use spectre ?
03:47 <@preaction> even if you're not using versioning, you may need spectre (if your default workflow is not "Commit Content Immediately")
03:47 <@preaction> yes
03:47 <@preaction> we're trying to narrow down the list of possible causes here
03:47 <@preaction> so we turn off spectre, and then try loading pages
03:48 <@preaction> what kind of system are you running this on? 1Ghz / 1Gig are about the minimum i would attempt to run WebGUI on these days
03:48 < Samus_Aran> I did "perl spectre.pl --shutdown" and continued to use the web pages.  it is still the same slow speed
03:48 < Samus_Aran> dual 1.6Ghz, 1GiB RAM
03:49 <@preaction> okay. how's vmstat look? are we swapping in and/or out?
03:49 < Samus_Aran> preaction: that is a pretty sad minimum requirement.  sigh.  I guess I should have researched before trying WebGUI 7.x
03:50 <@preaction> why? webgui is huge. and in order to get quicker responses it does a lot of caching, both on-disk and in-memory
03:50 < Samus_Aran> the Linux kernel caches things very well, caching by the app will only end up swapping to disk
03:51 <@preaction> it caches mysql queries? perl object instanciation?
03:51 < Samus_Aran> files
03:51 < Samus_Aran> other PHP code that uses databases on this system is instantaneous.  page loads in under .1 second
03:51 < Samus_Aran> minimum 5 seconds on WeGUI currently, with an average of around 8 seconds
03:52 < Samus_Aran> sometimes 20-30
03:52 <@preaction> you can't compare "other PHP code that uses databases" to "WebGUI". they're entirely different beasts
03:52 < Samus_Aran> also spectre is often using up 8-10% CPU when no page requests are going on, that seems quite excessive for a background monitoring daemon
03:53 <@preaction> WebGUI has an average of 30 db reads and 1 write per request
03:53 <@preaction> it's not a monitoring daemon, it's an offline execution daemon
03:53 < Samus_Aran> so long as the database is left open, that would still be nearly instantaneous on this system
03:53 <@preaction> it runs things that would cause browsers to time-out or that users don't want to see running
03:53 <@preaction> which is why we're troubleshooting, no?
03:54 < Samus_Aran> which way do you want me to check the vmstat you asked about ?
03:55 <@preaction> i just wanted to see if your box was swapping. that could cause significant delays and IO wait. are you running webgui in its own apache or alongside mod_php and others?
03:55 <@preaction> you're using prefork right?
03:56 < Samus_Aran> preaction: (regarding the multiple database queries, one of the other sites here sometimes has dozens of database queries per hit as well, always under half a second)
03:56 < Samus_Aran> apache you mean ?
03:57 < Samus_Aran> apache2-mpm-prefork is already the newest version.
03:57 < Samus_Aran> that's what is on there now
03:57 < Samus_Aran> the server is running Ubuntu 6.06 LTS
03:57 < Samus_Aran> Apache/2.0.55
03:57 <@preaction> okay. now, you're using PerlRequire /data/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl right?
03:59 <@preaction> you're also using Apache2::Reload to make sure the apache processes don't get out of control, right?
03:59 < Samus_Aran> http://rafb.net/p/iJzHcV35.txt  << this is the virtual host
03:59 < Samus_Aran> (I replaced the domain name with "foo")
04:00 <@preaction> er.. sizelimit, right. not reload
04:00 < Samus_Aran> how would I check about Apache2::Reload ?
04:00 <@preaction> don't worry about it, devs would use it
04:00 <@preaction> bad for production servers
04:01 <@preaction> uhm... WebguiRoot is /data/WebGUI but PerlRequire /var/www/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl ? where is WebGUI really?
04:01 <@preaction> how many megs are these apache processes taking up? shouldn't be any more than 80 or 90M
04:01 < Samus_Aran> WebGUI is installed to /var/www/WebGUI.  for each place the documentation mentioned a path in a file, I updated it accordingly
04:02 < Samus_Aran> Apache2::Reload is up to date (0.09).
04:02 < Samus_Aran> (from cpan
04:02 < Samus_Aran> )
04:02 <@preaction> so why PerlSetVar WebguiRoot /data/WebGUI ?
04:03 < Samus_Aran> http://rafb.net/p/mh7NHq38.txt  << apache processes
04:03 < Samus_Aran> it is ?  I redid the virtual host at some point after I messed things up, I may have missed it the second time.  *goes to look*
04:04 < Samus_Aran> how could it run without that being set ?
04:04 < Samus_Aran> I have adjusted it now, restarting apache
04:11 < Samus_Aran> I have noticed since restarting Apache that the initial apache process, the one run by root that I assume spawns the others, is sitting there using CPU (3-10% average)
04:11 < Samus_Aran> hm
04:12 < Samus_Aran> no change in page loading/editing speed
04:14 <@preaction> i would say the problem is probably that since WebGUI isn't the only thing being done by that apache, it doesn't keep a lot of the WebGUI stuff in-memory (frees space to be used to load other scripts)
04:14 <@preaction> is this a production box? could you test with only webgui vhost on?
04:14 <@preaction> i run the WRE, so i got no clue. but you could run the WRE's mod_perl instance behind your own apache running mod_proxy (much like the WRE does)
04:15 < Samus_Aran> it is a production box, however the organisation is not large, and it only really needs to be functional during weekdays
04:15 <+Radix-wrk> I use the wre, but have a separate apache install for php websites and use the wre's modproxy to do the work
04:15 < Samus_Aran> so I could try something else right now
04:16 <+Radix-wrk> so mod_perl for webgui is on port 81, mod_php on port 82, etc
04:17 <+Radix-wrk> does the webgui admin guide have much info on tuning apache/mod_proxy?
04:17 <@apeiron> Radix-wrk, So the mod_proxy server receives all the requests on 80, and then forwards internally to 81 or 82, etc., es?
04:17 <@apeiron> s/es/yes/
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04:19 < Samus_Aran> I am willing to try the WRE in that way.  didn't know it could co-exist with a regular Apache/PHP/Perl/MySQL setup
04:20 <@preaction> yeah. the WRE is two apache instances: one mod_proxy, one mod_perl. i've had a few people forgoe the mod
04:20 <@preaction> _proxy one and just run the mod_perl one
04:24 <+Radix-wrk> the biggest issue is more with mysql - as it won't co-exist with another instance
04:25 <+Radix-wrk> I switched distro's mysql databases over to the wre one myself, but you can do it the other way if you want too
04:25 <+Radix-wrk> that's the only hassle with co-existance really though
04:26 <@preaction> yeah, shouldn't matter if you do or do not use the wre's mysql really
04:26 <@preaction> hell. you might be able to get by just by stealing the modperl.conf file out of the WRE and running it with your own apache
04:27 <@preaction> whether it's the WRE's apache or not shouldn't matter. just give webgui its own dedicated bit of apache + memory (2 processes perhaps)
04:28 <+Radix-wrk> I run my wre on a virtual server with 256mb ram myself - seems to run fine
04:28 <@preaction> how much cache does mysql have? 300M+?
04:28 <+Radix-wrk> I did tweak the mysql settings down a bit to compensate, but juga.biz is still pretty fast
04:29 <+Radix-wrk> I forget what I actually changed tho :)
04:33 <+Radix-wrk> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m715140a5 - that's a copy of my my.cnf file with 256MB ram
04:49 < Samus_Aran> okay.  I was away a bit, back now.
04:49 < Samus_Aran> preaction: how do you think I should proceed at this point ?
04:49 < Samus_Aran> trying a manual install of the latest beta or using the WRE with my existing setup, or ?
04:50 <@preaction> see how well webgui runs when it's the only thing on the apache server, probably by making a seperate apache instance that only runs WebGUI (on a different port)
04:50 < Samus_Aran> I don't mind turning off Apache/MySQL/etc. for testing
04:51 <@preaction> well, it's not spectre, you could probably turn that back on
04:51 < Samus_Aran> will try the WRE in /data/WebGUI then
04:51 <@preaction> wait, what?
04:52 < Samus_Aran> mm ?
04:52 < Samus_Aran> I was going to turn off MySQL and Apache and try the WRE by itself, to check perormance
04:52 < Samus_Aran> *performance
04:52 <@preaction> ok
04:54 < Samus_Aran> is wre-0.8.1-ubuntu-6_server-ia32.tar.gz the correct file ?
04:54 <@preaction> probably. are you running a 32-bit cpu?
04:54 < Samus_Aran> yes
05:04 < Samus_Aran> the install notes have conflicting information about the directory structure underneath /data
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05:04 < Samus_Aran> the non-symlink instructions will end up with /data/wre and the symlink instructions will give you /data/wre/wre
05:04 < Samus_Aran> I assume with only one "wre" is the correct structure
05:06 < Samus_Aran> "Create your DNS entries (or add entries to /etc/hosts) for the sites you will be using, including the AWStats site."
05:06 < Samus_Aran> what is AWStats ?
05:07 <@preaction> it's an apache log analyzer
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06:58 < Samus_Aran> preaction: I was away, back to trying out the WRE now.  I thought it came with its own MySQL ?  it is saying when going through the web based installer that it couldn't connect to a MySQL server
06:59 < Samus_Aran> Couldn't connect to MySQL because DBI connect('test;host=localhost;port=3306','root',...) failed
06:59 < Samus_Aran> I shut down MySQL and Apache, and renamed the my.conf file, prior to running this installer
06:59 <@preaction> it does, did you start it? are you running the right environment? before working with the WRE stuff you need to source in ". /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment.sh"
07:00 <@preaction> (the space between the . and / is important)
07:01 < Samus_Aran> I did "source setenvironment.sh" prior to starting the web installer
07:02 < Samus_Aran> which should be the same as .
07:02 <@preaction> what does wreservice.pl --ping mysql say?
07:04 < Samus_Aran> I have both /data/WebGUI and /data/wre, is that correct ?
07:05 < Samus_Aran> Ping MySQL:           FAILED!
07:06 <@preaction> that means the wre's mysql isn't up or can't be reached
07:07 < Samus_Aran> I would like to find out why it can't start it
07:07 <@preaction> try doing "mysqld_safe"
07:07 < Samus_Aran> I didn't change any of the MySQL settings other than the passwort
07:07 < Samus_Aran> mysqld_safe from where ?
07:09 < Samus_Aran> nevermind, it's in the path after the source environment thing
07:09 < Samus_Aran> anyhow, I went back to the other screen, and it has error messages about setting up MySQL.  looking over them now
07:10 < Samus_Aran> ERROR: 1  Can't create/write to file '/data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql/db.MYI' (Errcode: 13)
07:10 < Samus_Aran> 080210 20:57:49 [ERROR] Aborting                                                                      
07:10 < Samus_Aran> not sure why it couldn't create it
07:10 < Samus_Aran> I ran the script as root
07:11 <@preaction> does mysqldata/mysql exist?
07:11 < Samus_Aran> drwx------ 2 webgui root 4.0K 2008-02-10 20:57 /data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql/
07:12 < Samus_Aran> odd permissions, root is the group, but it should ignore the "no write permission"
07:14 < Samus_Aran> any suggestions ?
07:20 < Samus_Aran> When I run mysqld_safe I get the following:
07:20 < Samus_Aran> Starting mysqld daemon with databases from /data/wre/var/mysqldata
07:20 < Samus_Aran> STOPPING server from pid file /data/wre/var/mysqldata/my_hostname.pid
07:20 < Samus_Aran> 080210 21:19:37  mysqld ended
07:20 < Samus_Aran> and there are no MySQL processes running
07:21 < Samus_Aran> I found an error log file with this in it: [ERROR] Can't start server : Bind on unix socket: Permission denied
07:21 <@preaction> check in /var/mysqldata/*.err
07:22 < Samus_Aran> [ERROR] Do you already have another mysqld server running on socket: /data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql.sock ?
07:22 < Samus_Aran> that's from that error file you mentioned
07:22 < Samus_Aran> there are no processes with "my" in it
07:22 < Samus_Aran> in the command name, I mean
07:24 < Samus_Aran> I didn't get an answer from you above about the structure of /data.  is there supposed to be /data/wre or /data/wre/wre ?  and should there be a /data/WebGUI directory as well ?
07:24 < Samus_Aran> the documentation has errors in it regarding this
07:26 -!- preaction_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui
07:26 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction_] by ChanServ
07:28 <@preaction_> it should be /data/wre and /data/WebGUI. no /data/wre/wre
07:30 < Samus_Aran> is there some way to track down why it thinks that it has already started its MySQL server ?
07:32 < Samus_Aran> looked through the running processes and see the previous spectre.pl still running.  closed that now
07:33 < Samus_Aran> made no difference
07:35 < Samus_Aran> I just realised that /data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql.sock does not exist
07:35 < Samus_Aran> it's not that something else is using it, it was just never created
07:37  * Samus_Aran sighs
07:39 < Samus_Aran> starting over
07:41 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
07:45 < Samus_Aran> the web installer asks for a MySQL username and password.  I changed the password, and then it doesn't work.  it works with the default password
07:46 < Samus_Aran> why does it give you the option to change the password if it is not going to be using it ?
07:46 <@preaction_> the error that happened about starting the server probably caused the wreconsole to not update the password
07:46 <@preaction_> it has to be able to start the mysqld in order to change the password
07:47 < Samus_Aran> but the only change I made was this time not changing the password -- and then MySQL started fine
07:47 <@preaction_> mysql doesn't need a password to start
07:48 <@preaction_> who knows what happened, the point is you could change that password now if you wanted to
07:52 < Samus_Aran> there is nowhere in the web interface that I see to change the password, only the setup
07:55 < Samus_Aran> when I click on Spectre in the list of services tab, it says starting, and then goes back to a [Start] button
07:55 < Samus_Aran> no errors
07:55 < Samus_Aran> the other services started
07:56 < Samus_Aran> sorry, there was an error, just couldn't see it, it was so small: "Spectre did not start successfully.
07:56 < Samus_Aran> "
07:56 < Samus_Aran> "to_json" is not exported by the JSON module                                                          
07:56 < Samus_Aran> Can't continue after import errors at ../lib/Spectre/Cron.pm line 22
07:59 < Samus_Aran> sigh.  I can't add a site using the web interface.  I don't know the MySQL password
07:59 < Samus_Aran> I thought it was qwe123
08:03 < Samus_Aran> 123qwe ...
08:08 < Samus_Aran> anyhow, the WRE's Spectre is broken
08:08 < Samus_Aran> it has issues with its own Perl modules
08:08 < Samus_Aran> assuming that the JSON thing is part of the WRE
08:09 < Samus_Aran> when I try to connect to the new WebGUI site I get: Bad Gateway - The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.
08:13 <+Radix-wrk> the mysql password is specified when you first installed the wre
08:13 < Samus_Aran> I know, but it wouldn't let me change it, so I used the default, which I didn't remember
08:14 < Samus_Aran> this is an absolute nightmare to set up compared to WebGUI 4.x
08:14 -!- preaction__ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui
08:14 <+Radix-wrk> agreed - though admittedly it's changed hugely since version 4 too
08:14 < Samus_Aran> all of the UI changes I have seen thus far I find to be far worse
08:14 -!- preaction_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
08:14 <+Radix-wrk> that said.. I've had no problems installing a wre system out of the box within 10 minutes in the past
08:15 < Samus_Aran> on the old versions it was clear to a new user where to go to get things done
08:15 < Samus_Aran> now the menus are utterly confusing
08:15 < Samus_Aran> something as simple as adding a content item to a page is confusing
08:15 <+Radix-wrk> why?
08:15 <+Radix-wrk> it's pretty easy.. click new content on the left, and select what object you want
08:16 < Samus_Aran> the UI says it is adding a new page when you do that
08:16 <+Radix-wrk> everything is a "page" in webgui
08:17 <+Radix-wrk> every object has it's own url
08:17 < preaction__> version 5 added the "asset" system, no?
08:17 < preaction__> or was it 6.x series?
08:17 < preaction__> there have been so many changes, Samus_Aran, you may as well treat it as an entirely different system
08:17 < Samus_Aran> I'm talking about a section on a page.  the things you drag around
08:18 < preaction__> they are pages too
08:18 < preaction__> they have urls
08:18 < Samus_Aran> a column or section
08:18 < preaction__> you can go to just them
08:18 < Samus_Aran> well that is extremely messed up
08:18 < preaction__> and that is an extremely obtuse opinion
08:18 <+Radix-wrk> Actually I tend to agree there to a certain extent.. I wish pages were the only thing that had urls
08:19 <+Radix-wrk> but that said, it's never really bothered me
08:19 < Samus_Aran> it is entirely counter-intuitive
08:19 < preaction__> only container assets?
08:19 <+Radix-wrk> I just don't care what urls objects have, as long as my pages have the urls I want
08:19 < preaction__> so message boards, page layouts, and wikis
08:19 <+Radix-wrk> they're the only ones that appear in navigation items anyway
08:19 < preaction__> but how do you get to a wiki page then?
08:19 < preaction__> myWikiUrl?node=something?
08:20 < preaction__> that's ugly
08:20 < preaction__> how do you get to a forum post? myMessageBoard?collab=id;thread=id;post=id?
08:20 < preaction__> that's better than myMessageBoard/collab/thread/post?
08:20 <+Radix-wrk> I think of pages, forums, etc as containers
08:21 < preaction__> what if i think of a thread as a container? do i lose out?
08:21 < preaction__> is a calendar a container or can their event be containers too?
08:21 <+Radix-wrk> well I find it all pretty confusing actually :)
08:22 < preaction__> i agree it can be counter-intuitive, even backwards, but everything in the system has a URL, no matter what
08:22 < preaction__> would you prefer a query string or something friendly?
08:22 < preaction__> bonus: we don't use mod_rewrite to do it
08:23 < Samus_Aran> I am considering going back to 4.x.  It worked, was fast and did the things I needed it to do
08:24 < preaction__> 4.x even still works as a CGI, instead of mod_perl
08:24 <+Radix-wrk> Samus_Aran: that's a shame - there's a lot to love in the new versions imho
08:25 <+Radix-wrk> version control for one
08:25 <+Radix-wrk> depends what you're after though I guess
08:30 < Samus_Aran> version control is another example of how confusing WebGUI 7.xi s
08:30 < Samus_Aran> *7.x is
08:30 < Samus_Aran> I tried to use it and immediately the whole site was destroyed
08:30 < Samus_Aran> didn't even have a template
08:30 < preaction__> buy the content manager's guide perhaps?
08:31 < Samus_Aran> I shouldn't have to purchase a book to use an open source product.  WebGUI 4.x was easy to use with the help at the time
08:31 < preaction__> Samus_Aran, then keep pushing on, eventually you'll understand it
08:31 < Samus_Aran> and I would have to justify the book purchase and it would take at least a week
08:31 < preaction__> you don't need to purchase the book, it just makes it easier
08:31 < Samus_Aran> I don't have a week to sit on my hands
08:33 < Samus_Aran> I would find a versioning system the same as a Wiki quite useful.  WebGUI seems to use some other strange system
08:34 < Samus_Aran> plus there is no description of how to use it from the actual page.  I clicked on the first item in the list and it promptly destroyed the whole WebGUI install
08:35 < preaction__> no, it didn't. unless you clicked a big red X 
08:35 < Samus_Aran> I believe it reverted to a pre-install state
08:36 < Samus_Aran> I was trying to reset some changes I had done, to see how it worked
08:36 < preaction__> and i don't believe you. any deleting of a version tag or any content pops up a javascript alert box saying "Are you sure?"
08:36 < Samus_Aran> but it erased everything, including the template
08:36 < Samus_Aran> the site wasjust white after that
08:36 < Samus_Aran> *was jsut
08:36 < Samus_Aran> *just
08:36 < preaction__> so you had rollback version tag?
08:36 < preaction__> the current one, the Autotag for Admin?
08:36 < Samus_Aran> there was one item in a list, I clicked on rollback, assuming it would rollback to the base-install time
08:37 < Samus_Aran> or whatever the feature is that I thought was a rollback
08:37 < preaction__> what list? what item? under the Version Tags icon of the Admin Console?
08:37 < Samus_Aran> I am not sure from my memory
08:37 < Samus_Aran> I can't even load the WRE version of WebGUI
08:37 < Samus_Aran> Bad Gateway
08:37 < preaction__> the white page was probably the URL you were on disappearing, since you deleted the content
08:37 < Samus_Aran> The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.
08:38 < Samus_Aran> it still had a basic menu, but there was no longer any template
08:38 < preaction__> means the proxied server isn't running. the proxy can't reach the server it's trying to reach
08:38 < preaction__> so there was a menu on the left side with a list of a bunch of stuff, right?
08:38 < preaction__> plus maybe a list in the larger area on the right perhaps?
08:39 < Samus_Aran> I am talking about clicking on something about versioning on the left administrator menu, then on the right page that loads, choosing the only version listed, then telling it to use that one
08:39 < Samus_Aran> and it proceeding (after the JS warning) to erase everything
08:40 < Samus_Aran> what sort of performance can be expected from a WebGUI install that is actually working properly ?
08:41 < Samus_Aran> on WebGUI 4.x on a crappy old computer running Debian where I was testing it, it ran extremely fast with 8-10 users
08:41 < preaction__> we run 50-60 webgui sites on 2x2.4Ghz / 4G servers running CentOS 5
08:41 < preaction__> we run servers with 30,000+ registered users on one of those boxes, dedicated
08:41 < Samus_Aran> this was back in 2002 or 2001 I think.  whenever 4.x was around
08:42 < preaction__> load stays less than 0.5, response times for a 300kB page are around 10 seconds
08:42 <+Radix-wrk> you seen demo.plainblack.com?
08:42 < Samus_Aran> are you saying you dedicate a dual 2.4Ghz system to 1 site ?  or 50-60 sites ?
08:42 < Samus_Aran> yes, I have used the demo
08:42 <+Radix-wrk> 50-60 sites
08:42 < preaction__> we've got one box with 80 sites, and that stays at about 2 load. we dont' monitor that one anymore (the owner was told of the consequences of having more than 70 sites)
08:43 < preaction__> both. 1 site with 30,000+ registered users
08:43 < preaction__> and 50-60 smaller sites
08:43 < Samus_Aran> 10 seconds response time for LAN access is ludicrous
08:43 < preaction__> i'm talking internet
08:43 < preaction__> i don't live in the datacenter
08:44 < preaction__> i have DSL. 100kB/s when i'm not using it for other purposes
08:44 < Samus_Aran> I mean, we will be updating and using the site on a LAN.  300KiB in 10 seconds is only 30KiB/sec, which I assume you have way more bandwidth than that
08:44 < Samus_Aran> so the bottleneck is CPU
08:44 < Samus_Aran> or disk access
08:44 < preaction__> if there was a CPU bottleneck, the load would be far higher than .5
08:44 < Samus_Aran> even our basic business DSL account gets use 60KiB/sec upstream
08:44 < Samus_Aran> *gets us
08:45 < preaction__> okay. we must be talking two different languages here
08:45 < Samus_Aran> so why then does it take 10 seconds to load a page ?
08:45 < preaction__> I... Me personally... do not live anywhere near the datacenter we use
08:45 < Samus_Aran> do you have broadband ?
08:45 < Samus_Aran> if so, it should make no difference
08:45 < preaction__> I... Me personally... at my home... have a crappy DSL connection that is being 75% used by bittorrent at all time.
08:46 <+Radix-wrk> our webgui server is a 3GHz P4 with 1GB ram - that runs a website with about 9300 users (who access it rarely) and over 5200 assets and it's on our lan and I usually get a page in a second or two at most.
08:46 < preaction__> i will load the site i am talking about right now and report on the time it takes
08:46 <+Radix-wrk> that's our website, intranet, extranet, users account server, all in one
08:47 < Samus_Aran> I would like to find out why my manual install of WebGUI was going in slow motion on an otherwise unloaded server
08:47 < Samus_Aran> if you're saying it should now be that way
08:47 < Samus_Aran> but I would also like to know why spectre was using hundreds and hundreds of megs of RAM
08:47 < preaction__> if you want support, plain black offers ad hoc login support at reasonable rates
08:47 < Samus_Aran> and the apache threads were using almost 100MiB each
08:48 < preaction__> i've explained the apache threads to you already: mod_perl, WebGUI, mod_php, etc... all take up memory
08:48 < preaction__> the reason we use Apache2::SizeLimit is because mod_perl doesn't seem to like cleaning up after itself. apache also, because it kills its own children after so many connections / so much time
08:49 < preaction__> Apache2::SizeLimit is just more efficient and more configurable about how the processes die
08:49 < Samus_Aran> what is an empty WebGUI site doing that requires more than half a gig of RAM ?
08:50 < Samus_Aran> my fresh install was using around 650MiB RAM in total
08:50 < preaction__> it's not half a gig. WebGUI before it forks (mpm_prefork) takes about 70M (that's apache process + perl code + memory cache)
08:50 < preaction__> 70M per process
08:50 < preaction__> * 5 processes (apache's default StartServers)
08:50 < Samus_Aran> and 350MiB for spectre
08:50 < preaction__> 350M
08:51 < preaction__> spectre grows slowly, usually due to errors talking to WebGUI
08:51 < Samus_Aran> it had only been running, idle, for 2.5 days
08:52 < Samus_Aran> I worked on it on Thursday
08:52 < Samus_Aran> and then again now on Sunday
08:52 < Samus_Aran> if it keeps growing, how does a hosted WebGUI server manage to not constantly run out of RAM ?
08:53 < Samus_Aran> cronjobs to kill and restart the service constantly ?
08:53 <+Radix-wrk> spectre is using 20mb on my server and 58-68mb for each apache process
08:53 -!- ryuu_ro [n=rory@194.171.50.69] has joined #webgui
08:53 <+Radix-wrk> load average is 0.05 for me
08:53 < Samus_Aran> Radix-wrk: how long has spectre been running ?
08:54 <+Radix-wrk> up 34 days
08:54 < preaction__> if there are problems connecting to WebGUI, it slowly grows.
08:55 <+Radix-wrk> that's with a stock wre install that I compiled myself
08:55 < preaction__> we restart it on the demo box because when demo sites are removed, it needs to be restarted
08:56 <+Radix-wrk> that's running on a via C7 1Ghz processor with 1GB ram - and is my home router/gateway/pc
08:56 < preaction__> it's been more than 3 hours of you complaining about WebGUI. if you want real support, Plain Black offers it. if you follow the advice i've given you, others have given you, and the instructions, you can fix your problems.
08:56 < Samus_Aran> this is my WRE, by default without any modifications: 37080+504+34544+57988+57672+57668+57668+57668+57668+2248+2432+2328+2328+2328+2332+2264
08:57 < Samus_Aran> and no spectre, as it won't load
08:57 < Samus_Aran> 434720 KiB
08:57 < Samus_Aran> RSS column of PS, grepping for things from /data/
08:58 < Samus_Aran> preaction__: you stopped answering my questions about an hour ago
08:58 < Samus_Aran> preaction__: I don't think you owe anything to me, but don't say that I wasn't following
08:58 < Samus_Aran> I was trying my very best to try everything you said I should try
08:58 < Samus_Aran> and your help is very much appreciated
08:59 < Samus_Aran> Spectre will not load for me with a stock WRE
08:59 < Samus_Aran> it complains about JSON
08:59 < Samus_Aran> and I can't connect to the WebGUI site I added, with the above proxy error
09:00 <+Radix-wrk> there's some stuff in gotchas.txt about JSON I seem to recall
09:00  * Samus_Aran goes to look
09:00 < preaction__> the 0.8.1 WRE needs updated JSON and Config::JSON. this will be fixed in WRE 0.8.2
09:00 <+Radix-wrk> stable version of webgui doesn't like newest version of JSON - and new 7.5.1 version fixes it or something
09:01 < preaction__> no. latest stable (7.4.22) and latest beta (7.5.1) both need JSON 2.04 and Config::JSON 1.1.4
09:01 < Samus_Aran> "to_json" is not exported by the JSON module
09:01 < Samus_Aran> Can't continue after import errors at ../lib/Spectre/Cron.pm line 22
09:01 < Samus_Aran> is the error
09:01 <+Radix-wrk> run testEnvironment.pl
09:02 < preaction__> won't work. you need to force install Config::JSON
09:02 < Samus_Aran> Config::JSON is up to date (1.1.4).
09:03 < Samus_Aran> when I did the manual install, testEnvironment.pl found every module it checked, other than one which it would always say it didn't find, even though it was installed
09:03 < Samus_Aran> though I thought the WRE contained the complete Perl environment ?
09:03 < preaction__> spectre is being run under the WRE? you're running testEnvironment.pl under the WRE's environment? what does echo $PATH say?
09:03 < Samus_Aran> I haven't run testEnvironment.pl from the WRE
09:04 < preaction__> did you run cpan from the WRE's environment?
09:04 < Samus_Aran> you mean the all-in-one WRE is distributed broken ?
09:05 < Samus_Aran> that rather defeats the purpose of an all-in-one download with all the servers
09:05 <+Radix-wrk> it just needs a few updated perl modules for the newer versions that've come out since it was released
09:07 < Samus_Aran> I am updating the modules using the testEnvironment.pl script.  hopefully that will place the modules in the correct perl
09:08 < preaction__> it only will if you tell it to
09:08 < Samus_Aran> what do you mean ?
09:08 < preaction__> it will put the modules in the correct place for the perl that is running
09:09 < Samus_Aran> the perl that is running is whatever perl the testEnvironment.pl script launched
09:09 <+Radix-wrk> you need to use ". /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment"
09:09 < Samus_Aran> with the setenvironment.sh run first
09:09 < Samus_Aran> yes
09:09 < Samus_Aran> *sourced, not run
09:10 <+Radix-wrk> as long as 'which perl' comes up with the one in the /data/wre directory you're fine
09:13 < Samus_Aran> it has already installed at least a dozen Perl modules
09:13 < Samus_Aran> prereq's for the JSON update
09:15 < Samus_Aran> hm, a lot more than a dozen.  maybe 40.  it's just whipping through them
09:20 < Samus_Aran> Checking for module Config::JSON: 1.1.1 is installed, but we need at least 1.1.2, do you want to upgrade it now? {y|n} [y]
09:21 < Samus_Aran> Going to read /root/.cpan-webgui/Metadata
09:21 < Samus_Aran> Config::JSON is up to date.
09:21 < Samus_Aran> so if cpan doesn't have it, how do I get 1.1.2 as needed ?
09:22 < preaction__> you want 1.1.4. cpan does have it. you need to force install it
09:24 <+Radix-wrk> I think it might be a bug in 1.1.1 - it reports itself as 1.1.4 or something
09:24 < Samus_Aran> okay, done
09:25 < Samus_Aran> only one not OK now is:
09:25 < Samus_Aran> Checking for module Graphics::Magick:             Not Installed, but it's optional anyway             
09:25 < Samus_Aran> I would like that to be installed, but it doesn't seem to have a cpan listing.  I installed it through Ubuntu
09:25 < preaction__> you want image::magic, not graphics::magick
09:26 < Samus_Aran> I think it requires a full ImageMagick to be installed
09:26 < Samus_Aran> image::magic or magick ?
09:26 < preaction__> magick
09:26 < Samus_Aran> Image::Magick is up to date.
09:26 < preaction__> so you're fine
09:27 < Samus_Aran> when I did the manual install, I got Graphics::Magick installed, so that the testEnvironment.pl script gave it an OK
09:27 < Samus_Aran> are you saying the script is checking for something that is not used ?
09:27 < preaction__> that's the "but it's optional anyway" part
09:27 <+Radix-wrk> Graphics::Magick was added for FreeBSD I seem to recall.. which had problems with imagemagick
09:28 < Samus_Aran> I would like all features to be available, is what I mean
09:28 < preaction__> yah, but apeiron got IM compiling under WRE for FreeBSD so we don't need GM anymore
09:28 < Samus_Aran> e.g. Aspell is also optional, but I installed it
09:28 <+Radix-wrk> you won't need it
09:28 < Samus_Aran> okay, thank you
09:28 < preaction__> it uses one or the other, not both. if you have IM, it uses that. otherwise it tries to use GM. if it doesn't find either, it dies
09:29 < Samus_Aran> okay, everything seems to be working now.  Spectre started successfully
09:29 < Samus_Aran> I still get the other error when trying to access the domain, though:
09:29 < Samus_Aran> Bad Gateway
09:29 < Samus_Aran> The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.
09:30 < preaction__> as i said before: it means that the proxy server can't connect to the server it's supposed to be proxy for
09:30 < Samus_Aran> isn't the server it is supposed to connect to the apache running in the WRE ?
09:31 < preaction__> is the modperl server running?
09:31 < Samus_Aran> which is running on the default ports during the install
09:31 < Samus_Aran> everything is running now
09:31 < preaction__> did you add any sites?
09:31 < Samus_Aran> MySQL, Apache Modperl, Apache Modproxy, Spectre, WRE Console
09:31 < Samus_Aran> I added one site
09:32 < preaction__> and that hostname is resolvable? can you connect to the modperl server directly using its port?
09:33 < Samus_Aran> I am stopping all the servers now, and restarting them
09:33 < Samus_Aran> yes, DNS is fine
09:34 <+Radix-wrk> try going to www.site.com:81
09:34 < preaction__> WRE 0.8 uses 8081 now
09:34 <+Radix-wrk> or whatever port you set modperl to be on
09:34 <+Radix-wrk> okay.. 8081 then
09:35 -!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui
09:36 < Samus_Aran> 'objToJson' will be obsoleted. Please use 'to_json' instead. at /data/wre/sbin/wreconsole.pl line 312
09:36 < Samus_Aran> Can't locate object method "autoconv" via package "JSON" at /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/JSON.pm line 122.
09:37 < Samus_Aran> is that error important ?
09:37 < Samus_Aran> not the deprecation part, but the autoconv
09:37 < preaction__> depends, what are you doing?
09:37 < preaction__> are you running 7.5.1 or 7.4.22?
09:37 < Samus_Aran> that was from the wreconsole.pl
09:37 < Samus_Aran> it died
09:38 < Samus_Aran> it dies when I go to the Settings tab of the web setup interface
09:38 < preaction__> yeah, it's going to do that until 0.8.2 is released
09:38 < Samus_Aran> okay
09:40 < Samus_Aran> I also don't like that it added a ServerAlias automatically.  I just realised that the regular web site would not be offline, it would be mapping to this beta sub-domain
09:40 < Samus_Aran> which seems quite wrong
09:41 < Samus_Aran> joe.mysite.com should not automatically show up at mysite.com
09:41 < preaction__> submit an RFE
09:41 < Samus_Aran> that defeats the whole purpose of sub-domains
09:41 < Samus_Aran> perhaps if the subdomain is "www" then it would be an alright default
09:41 < Samus_Aran> though a redirect is the proper way to handle that, not a ServerAlias
09:42 < Samus_Aran> ServerAlias's should pretty much not ever be used
09:42 < Samus_Aran> otherwise Google and such will end up with two copies of the site
09:44 < Samus_Aran> preaction__: to your question, I am on 7.4.22
09:44 < Samus_Aran> er, I think I am.  I was when I manually installed it
09:45 < Samus_Aran> now I'm on whatever the WRE installed
09:45 < Samus_Aran> I didn't see it mentioned
09:45 < Samus_Aran> is the mod proxy on 8081 allow access from anywhere, or just LAN ?
09:46 < Samus_Aran> and would I use the foo-server name or the domain name ?
09:47 < Samus_Aran> I am working remotely.  I did an SSH tunnel to access the foo-server:60834 at work
09:47 < Samus_Aran> would I need a similar tunnel for 8081, or should going to the domain name (which has proper DNS to the computer in question) be enough ?
09:52 < preaction__> it's meant to allow access from the box itself, localhost. not sure what your firewall allows
09:56 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"]
09:59 < Samus_Aran> I mean should I be able to access it using foobar.com:8081 ?
09:59 < Samus_Aran> I can not currently
10:00 < Samus_Aran> and yes, foobar.com's DNS does point to the appropriate IP and it is forwarded to the server in question
10:00 < Samus_Aran> or is it
10:00  * Samus_Aran goes to check the catch-all
10:08 < Samus_Aran> okay, forwarded a port manually and now I get to a login when going to the 8081 prot
10:08 < Samus_Aran> *port
10:09 < Samus_Aran> how can I fix the proxy so that I get to the site setup thing not on port 8081 ?
10:19 -!- preaction__ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Client Quit]
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15:52 < SDuensin> Greetings.
15:52 < ckotil> good morning
15:53 < SDuensin> Howdy.
15:58 < nuba> morning
16:13 < AMH_bob> mornin'
16:46 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui
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16:51 < BartJol> morning everyone
17:15 < perlmonkey2> preaction: Wanted to thank you for all your help yesterday.
17:19 <@preaction> morning
17:27 -!- ryuu_ro [n=rory@194.171.50.69] has quit []
17:37 < perlmonkey2> what would you think is wrong with the wre if netstat -ap returned about 15 pages of this: http://pastebin.com/d52d7b70c
17:40 < nuba> google docs now has forms to help the everyman collect data into spreadsheets http://www.google.com/google-d-s/whatsnew.html
17:41 < nuba> in a certain way, it sounds like a Thingy (Lite Edition)
17:43 < nuba> things would become more interesting the moment they start allowing people to link data from one spreadsheet to another
17:43 < perlmonkey2> hah, I was just wondering if they had an api for it :P
17:45 < nuba> there you go http://code.google.com/apis/spreadsheets/overview.html
17:47 -!- khenn [n=khenn@24-159-239-186.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
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18:19 < perlmonkey2> Ah, should there be a webgui user in the mysql.user table for the wre install?
18:19 < perlmonkey2> I have 4 users, root, test, backup and ''
18:20 < perlmonkey2> oh....no it is a random string...I'm guessing tha tis the webgui user.
18:20 < perlmonkey2> nm :)
18:22 <@preaction> each site has its own db user, which the wre system creates with that random string
18:25 < perlmonkey2> Do these start up wre log errors look fatal or abnormal? http://pastebin.com/d36421f85
18:25 < BartJol> you can find it in your config
18:25 < BartJol> sorry, i should mind my own business
18:26 < perlmonkey2> BartJol: ??? why?  I appreciate anyone's help
18:26 < BartJol> yeah, but i'm only confusing you right now
18:26 < perlmonkey2> No, I know what you mean.  
18:26 < BartJol> by using the wre, you create a config, so you can't look it up
18:27 < perlmonkey2> It's in the Webgui/etc/.conf :)
18:27 < BartJol> yeah that one :)
18:27 < BartJol> but dies anyone here now a thing or two about scratch variables?
18:28 < perlmonkey2> I'm on like hour 10 of trying to figure out why when webgui starts it creates 400 or so localhost tproxy connections, and would try to make more, but for os limits.
18:28 < BartJol> does not dies
18:28 < perlmonkey2> BartJol: I dream of the day when I can quit my job and learn all about webgui.
18:29 < BartJol> well, I'm allowed to spend a couple of hours a week programming
18:29 < BartJol> for my amusement and learning curve
18:30 < BartJol> but about the connections, I'm afraid I don't know
18:30 < perlmonkey2> completely driving me insane...the error logs are worthless.
18:36 < perlmonkey2> Is this a bad thing to see in the wre error logs: Compilation failed in require at /data/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl line 72.
18:37 < BartJol> well
18:37 < BartJol> not really
18:37 < perlmonkey2> I just don't get it......everything was working fine.  Nothing changed, but all of a sudden it wasn't.
18:38 < BartJol> mostly a script that is handled by perl and has some strange mistakes in them can give that
18:38 < perlmonkey2> the wre doesn't auto-update does it?
18:38 < BartJol> nop[e
18:38 < BartJol> you did do " .setenvironment.pl"
18:39 < BartJol> i suppose
18:39 < perlmonkey2> yes
18:39 < perlmonkey2> every time I'm starting something I do that.
18:39 < BartJol> can't do that often enough it seems
18:40 < perlmonkey2> heh, my path is like 400 lines long now I'v ran it so much.
18:41 < BartJol> but does the log also refer to another script?
18:41 < perlmonkey2> ?
18:41 < BartJol> or does your modperl log say something about it
18:41 < perlmonkey2> that is the error log for mod_perl
18:41 < perlmonkey2> just I'll relook
18:41 < BartJol> ah, darn
18:41 <@preaction> you might want to try running preload.perl by itself quick
18:42 < perlmonkey2> BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm line 21.
18:42 < perlmonkey2> Compilation failed in require at /data/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl line 72.
18:42 < perlmonkey2> is the full line.
18:42 < perlmonkey2> okay preaction I"ll try that.
18:42 <@preaction> ha
18:42 <@preaction> Image::ExifTool <- you're missing that i think
18:43 <@preaction> when you see BEGIN failed -- compilation aborted, try doing a: cd /data/WebGUI/lib; perl -c WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm
18:43 <@preaction> that'll show you the real error
18:44 < perlmonkey2> I'm missing a lot of files
18:44 < perlmonkey2> I get a lot of those.
18:44 < perlmonkey2> Can't locate Image/ExifTool.pm
18:44 <@preaction> which means you're missing that perl module
18:45 < perlmonkey2> Actually , if no one complains about the spam:
18:45 < perlmonkey2> Can't locate Image/ExifTool.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/5.8.8/i686-linux /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/5.8.8 /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/i686-linux /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8 /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl .) at WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm line 21.
18:45 < perlmonkey2> BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm line 21.
18:45 < perlmonkey2> preaction: But how could I be missing it, if I'm using the wre?
18:45 <@preaction> it's a new requirement
18:45 <@preaction> after 0.8.1 was released
18:46 < perlmonkey2> I'm just not sure how I got a version of webgui tha tneeds something the wre didn't supply.  and why it worked for a long time then stopped working.
18:46 < perlmonkey2> Should I update the wre?
18:46 <@preaction> there is no 0.8.2
18:46 < perlmonkey2> wreupgrade.pl
18:46 < perlmonkey2> oh.
18:46 < perlmonkey2> ah.
18:47 < perlmonkey2> so the wre is broken?
18:47 < perlmonkey2> and somehow I got an update of webgui that needs something that the wre doesn't have?
18:47 <@preaction> no. it's just missing some new developments in WebGUI
18:47 < perlmonkey2> oh...so this isn't the fatal issue I'm having?
18:48 <@preaction> this is the fatal issue you're having. even the WRE's installation instructions suggest running testEnvironment.pl
18:48  * perlmonkey2 has soooo much to learn about WebGUI.
18:50  * perlmonkey2 has money if you have a WG dev guide beta book :D
18:50 <@preaction> dev guide doesn't cover this stuff. this is admin guide stuff
18:51 <@preaction> dev guide covers coding and API
18:51 < perlmonkey2> yeah, something I would have instantly caught if I wasn't useing the WRE.
18:51 < perlmonkey2> I just assumed that there could not be any perl lib issues with the WRE.
18:51 <@preaction> you could probably post a bug as a reminder to JT to include that module in the WRE 0.8.2 when he's ready
18:51 < perlmonkey2> there are like 5
18:52 < perlmonkey2> modules that failed
18:52 <@preaction> Archive::Any, Image::ExifTool, are the two i know of
18:52 < perlmonkey2> oh
18:52 < perlmonkey2> those are the two I have
18:53 <@preaction> those are the two i added for the Gallery
18:53 < perlmonkey2> with broken cpan requirements trees
18:53 < perlmonkey2> thanks :D
18:53 <@preaction> the updated JSON and Config::JSON, but i think there's already a bug out there about those
18:53 < perlmonkey2> yeah, that seems fixed.
18:53 < perlmonkey2> I just don't get how it worked on my system, then stopped working without an upgrade or anything.
18:54  * perlmonkey2 just realized he's updating perl in /usr/lib instead of /dat
18:55 < nuba> happens
18:55 < nuba> sometimes
18:55 < perlmonkey2> oh, no I'm not....setEnv , duh
18:55 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat039.mxim.com] has joined #webgui
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18:56 <+perlDreamer> whoa!
18:56 <+perlDreamer> It's xdanger
18:56 <+perlDreamer> he's back
18:56 <+perlDreamer> (at least in bot form)
18:57 < perlmonkey2> preaction: that didn't fix things, but it made the error logs a lot cleaner: http://pastebin.com/d12e825f9
18:58 <@preaction> if your server reached MaxClients, with no users, you have a problem. modperl's httpd.conf is at /data/wre/etc/modperl.conf
18:58 < perlmonkey2> that error log is associated with about 400 tproxy localhost connections creating and dieing as fast as the OS can do it.
18:59 < nuba> sounds like fun..                  not.
18:59 < perlmonkey2> hah......more than mere words can express :)
19:01 < nuba> perlmonkey2: you can add something like this to setenv: export PS1="now im setenv'ed - $PS1"
19:02 < perlmonkey2> nuba: I know I have the env correct.  But I manually ran preload.perl and got this: Starting WebGUI 7.5.0
19:02 < perlmonkey2> Can't locate object method "server" via package "Apache2::ServerUtil" at preload.perl line 80.
19:02 < perlmonkey2> is that just because I'm running it manually?
19:02 <+perlDreamer> yeah
19:03 < perlmonkey2> the modperl.conf looks completely normal.  I just wish there was some sort of error output for what is going on.
19:03 < nuba> i suppose you have enabled more verbose logging for apache?
19:04 < perlmonkey2> nope...thanks I'll look up how to do that :)
19:04 < nuba> if not thats a way to troubleshooting
19:04 < nuba> run a single apache instance as well
19:04 < nuba> enable mod_status
19:04 < nuba> let me see..
19:06 < BartJol> hi perldreamer
19:06 < nuba> i have modperl.error.log and modproxy.error.log on /data/wre/prereqs/apache/logs
19:06 <+perlDreamer> Yo, BartJol
19:06 < BartJol> my macro works
19:06 <+perlDreamer> Awesome!
19:06 < nuba> thats 0.7 wWRE
19:06 < BartJol> now I have to extend it, because it works on every reload i believe
19:06 <+perlDreamer> huh?
19:06 < BartJol> that's a bit to much, so, i will incoporate a scratch variable
19:06 < perlmonkey2> nuba: that tree doens't exist in 8.1.  I'll see if I can find where apache is now.
19:07 < BartJol> you mean it is cached?
19:07 < nuba> you can try "find /data/wre -name modperl.error.log"
19:08 <+perlDreamer> If you have admin mode turned on, caching is disabled.
19:08 <+perlDreamer> But then it would transfer karma on every page load
19:08 <+perlDreamer> so a scratch variables could be good.
19:08 < BartJol> yeah, and if the session is longer than the cache time out, it also runs too often
19:09 < BartJol> and 1 more thing, it should not work when the current user is also the owner of an object
19:09 < perlmonkey2> nuba: I ran from wre/ find . -depth|grep .log$ and no appache.error.log showed up.  Only var/logs with modproxy and modperl
19:09 <+perlDreamer> that's pretty easy to detect
19:10 < BartJol> I know
19:10 < BartJol> something like WebGUI::Session->getUserId
19:10 <+perlDreamer> $session->user->userId
19:12 < BartJol> and a new session object, I'm not using that currently
19:12 < BartJol> I'm stupid
19:12 < BartJol> first shift
19:12 < BartJol> always
19:12 <+perlDreamer> every macro gets a session sent to it automatically
19:13 < BartJol> I realise that now
19:16 < BartJol> the last one is already implemented
19:16 < BartJol> scratch variable not yet, but first I'm gonna have dinner\
19:18 < BartJol> maybe tonight if I really don't feel like preparing a presentation on the commerce system
19:18 <+perlDreamer> The commerce system is going to change
19:19 < BartJol> yeah, that's what the presentation is about
19:19 < BartJol> the 44 page pdf is already in my bag
19:21 < BartJol> but I'll be back to annoy you soon :)
19:21  * perlmonkey2 installed all the perl reqs in cent 5.1, I'll see if I can do it in cent 5.0
19:21 <@preaction> BartJol, you're doing the presentation on the new commerce? nice
19:21 < BartJol> you at Arjan's place
19:21 < BartJol> united knowledge
19:22 < BartJol> not at the wuc
19:22 < BartJol> if I come it will be on the use of macro's
19:22 <@preaction> oh
19:22 <@preaction> :p
19:22 < BartJol> maybe I can do 2
19:23 < BartJol> will it be ready?
19:23 < BartJol> :)
19:23 < BartJol> otherwise it is a bit of a roadmap talk
19:24 <@preaction> i think that's why rizen is offline presently, besides the convention he was just at
19:24 <+perlDreamer> Well, I think the new commerce idea of basing all currency on the rupee is wrong.
19:24 <@preaction> WDK and Commerce are his two goals for the next couple months
19:24 <+perlDreamer> It's pretty stable wrt the dollar and the Euro, but still.
19:24 <@preaction> Rupees are the new currency! they're good enough for Link
19:29 < BartJol> well, I'll think about it, first have a look whether I can come at all
19:29 < BartJol> bye
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19:32 <@apeiron> Dangit, I'm doing one on commerce. I refuse to give up my talk on one of the Next Big Things in WebGUI.
19:32 <@apeiron> I didn't want to give up a talk on the nonexistent API of Thingy, do you think I'm going to give up one on Commerce?
19:32 <@preaction> uhm... no?
19:33 <@preaction> i wonder which ones i'm going to have to give up
19:33 <@preaction> i don't want to give up any either
19:33 <@preaction> there's no Thingy API? there's no way to plug-in different kinds of handlers or something?
19:35 <@apeiron> JT said to me in email "There's no pluggable API for thingy".
19:35 <@apeiron> This was after I said I didn't want to give up that talk. :)
19:35 <@preaction> damn...
19:36 <@preaction> who knows, maybe it won't need one
19:36 <@preaction> but technically there's no pluggable API for the Gallery currently. you have to edit the Gallery itself to plug-in a new File type
19:36 <@preaction> i suppose i should start pondering that eventually
20:09 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template
20:09 <+perlDreamer> "there is no spoon"
20:10 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template
20:10 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template
20:10 <+perlDreamer> CIA-21: you've got the squirts
20:16  * perlmonkey2 really wishes WG didn't use Apache::Request2
20:16 <+perlDreamer> what should it use instead?
20:17 < perlmonkey2> something that most linux distros support out of the box instead of requiring a PhD in operating systems to install.
20:17 <@preaction> Apache2::Request is part of mod_perl and libapr
20:17 <+perlDreamer> yeah, yum it
20:17 <+perlDreamer> I haven't needed to compile anything for Fedora for a very long time
20:17 <@preaction> or apt-get, or emerge, whatever your distro does
20:18 <+perlDreamer> well, until the wre
20:18 <+perlDreamer> but the WRE comes with everything except for some of the modules
20:19 <+perlDreamer> perl-libapreq2
20:20 <+perlDreamer> that's from FC6, and it should be the same on RHEL 5/CentOs/SciLinux
20:20 < perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: this is cent
20:20 <+perlDreamer> 4 or 5?
20:21 < perlmonkey2> 5
20:21 < perlmonkey2> I have apr, apr-devel, mod_perl, mod_perl-devel, apache, apache-devel
20:21 < perlmonkey2> it makes, but failes on make test.
20:24 < perlmonkey2> I'm just an idiot....test suites were failing because I was root.
20:27 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template
20:29 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2: Here's someone else's experience with libapreq2 and CentOs 5
20:29 <+perlDreamer> https://webwork.maa.org/moodle/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=5717
20:30 < perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: You see what I said above?  I was running the test suites as root.
20:31 < perlmonkey2> which is a big nono
20:31 < perlmonkey2> my own fault
20:31 < perlmonkey2> but all the libs are built now.  So I can move my wre install to a source install and see if the network issues continue.
20:32 < perlmonkey2> what is funny is the way I'm having to do the mp3 rss feed for the client, it would have worked the same if we had used PB hosting and a 5/month hoster for disk, and about $10/month cheaper.
20:38 <@preaction> pb does offer disk space upgrades. they should be in the store
20:39 < perlmonkey2> They found some hoster that gave 100GB for $7.99/month or some such.
20:39 < perlmonkey2> and most of the VPS's they wanted gave 15GB to 20GB for $30-$40/month.
20:40 < perlmonkey2> I really wish I could offload this project onto PlainBlack :D
20:41 < nuba> perlmonkey2: i just tried some cheapass hosting which gave me 120GB/8.99/mo
20:41 < nuba> where i was dumping my backups
20:42 < nuba> next thing is they block the account a couple of weeks afterwards, saying that it goes against their TOS
20:42 < perlmonkey2> nuba: My plan was an XML::RSS daemon on the cheapass server up the mp3/video to the WG server.
20:42 < perlmonkey2> nuba: yeah, what I was figuring.
20:42 < perlmonkey2> no one gives that much disk away
20:42 < nuba> i somehow talked my way out of that and told them I planned to serve these "machine snapshots" to my friends
20:42 < nuba> in a website
20:42 < perlmonkey2> sucker you in with lies and then it is too painful to leave.
20:43 < nuba> as of yet, its still on, that was a couple of months ago
20:44 < nuba> I told them I was just the sysadmin, and the user was another guy, and that I would forward the warning but "please send me the part of your TOS with the wording that says I cant do that"
20:44 < nuba> i never heard back from them with the wording
20:44 < nuba> checked the TOS myself, found nothing
20:44 < nuba> so all ok until now, of course they can just change the TOS and ruin the party if they want to
20:54 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template
20:55 < perlmonkey2> hah, I think I know what is going on.
20:55 < perlmonkey2> this is classic
20:55 < perlmonkey2> the rss feed on the front page is grabbing an rss producing collab object on another page.  That collab object is now gone.
20:55 < nuba> gremlins?
20:56 < perlmonkey2> but the rss feed is hammering the server trying to get that feed
20:56 < perlmonkey2> that just makes me sad
20:56 < nuba> isnt that a bug?
20:56 < perlmonkey2> a huge one
20:57 < perlmonkey2> that has wasted maybe 24 solid hours of my time I didn't have to waste.
20:57 < nuba> hammering the server until it gets the feed it wants
20:57 < perlmonkey2> I'm not 100% sure that is the problme
20:57 < perlmonkey2> but once I commit the removal of the rss feed, I'll know for sure.
20:57 < perlmonkey2> if I can get to the commit page.
20:58 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2: iirc, Spectre does the RSS prefetch
20:59 <+perlDreamer> so disabling that workflow may immediatly reduce your load
20:59 < perlmonkey2> spectre isn't running ....
20:59 < perlmonkey2> I'll try to commit the changes which remove the rss feed and then disable that workflow
21:01 < perlmonkey2> do workflows do anything when spectre isn't running?
21:01 <+perlDreamer> they shouldn't
21:01 < perlmonkey2> would it be the EMS Precache?
21:02 <@preaction> do you have a Syndicated Content wobject? if there is no RSS prefetch, then the SC asset tries to do i t
21:02 <@preaction> workflows can run without spectre. spectre just tips them off. WebGUI does the real work
21:02 < perlmonkey2> yes
21:03 <+perlDreamer> it's the GetSyndicatedContent Workflow activity that prefetches RSS
21:03 < perlmonkey2> that has to be what is happening.
21:03 < perlmonkey2> and the wobject shows locked and all versions committed.
21:03 < CIA-21> WebGUI: graham * r5413 /wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.template: add comment about uploads security to modproxy template
21:04 <@preaction> wtf is CIA on a loop or something?
21:04 <@apeiron> I think it's subtly trying to tell us how important that commit is.
21:05 <@preaction> it's not being very subtle about it
21:05 < nuba> well at least its not flooding the channel
21:06 -!- SDuensin_ [n=Scott@130.sub-75-205-112.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI
21:07 <@apeiron> preaction, http://code.google.com/p/cia-vc/issues/detail?id=2
21:07 <@apeiron> Seems other people are seeing this too.
21:07 < perlmonkey2> the explosion only happens when I go to the I have a SC that is locked on the front page.  I'm 99% sure it is the problem.  How do I unlock it?  Spectre is running.
21:08 <@preaction> perlmonkey2, you have to wait for spectre to process the commit
21:09 <@preaction> cia.vc seems to be only partially reachable at the moment. so i don't know if i can even remove the bot
21:09 < nuba> most repeated revisions by CIA bots, from my partial irclogs:
21:09 < nuba> hq% grep -E '< CIA.* \* r.*' \#webgui.200* | awk '{print $7, $5}' | uniq -c | sort -rn | head 6 r5413 graham 6 r5207 jt 3 r5255 doug 3 r5209 jt 2 r5391 doug 2 r5292 jt
21:10 < nuba> oops some linebreaks are missing there
21:10 < nuba> 6 r5413 graham
21:10 < nuba> 6 r5207 jt
21:10  * apeiron would rather the paste be on one line than flood the channel. :)
21:10 < nuba> heh true
21:11 < perlmonkey2> wow
21:11 -!- BartJol [n=plainstu@54-167.surfsnel.dsl.internl.net] has joined #webgui
21:11 < perlmonkey2> so the SC was the problem
21:11 < perlmonkey2> don't ever have an SC pointing at a bad uri....or at least one you own, cause it will DOS yoru machine.
21:12 < nuba> rank of revisions where CIA bots got stuck, NOW ON PASTEBIN! http://webgui.pastebin.com/m26f05bef
21:14 < nuba> graham's r5413 is in a tie with JT's r5207 in the first place
21:15 < nuba> im rooting for graham, hes such a bug fixing whiz!
21:15 < nuba> go graham go
21:16 < nuba> >cause it will DOS yoru machine.
21:16 < nuba> dont forget aobut DOSing someone else's machine
21:19 < perlmonkey2> nuba: well that would have been btter...they could have blocked the requests and let me know I was DOS'ing them.
21:19 < perlmonkey2> instead the machine just died.
21:21 < perlmonkey2> wow, that bug just cost me a lot of money
21:21 < perlmonkey2> suck
21:22 < BartJol> does a scratch variable just have 1 value, that can be altered?
21:22 < BartJol> oh and hi guys
21:22 < BartJol> or can it contain more values?
21:22 <+perlDreamer> you'd have to manually serialize it yourself, BartJol
21:23 < BartJol> serialize?
21:23 <+perlDreamer> transform from multiple values into 1 value (like a string)
21:23 < BartJol> ah
21:24 < BartJol> because I just want to store the visted url's in a session
21:24 < BartJol> so I have to make a variable each time an url is visited?
21:25 <+perlDreamer> Something has to keep track of where the user has been and how long ago
21:25 <+perlDreamer> Kind of sounds like the passive profiling system
21:25 < BartJol> well, the time is not very interesting to me
21:25 <+perlDreamer> is it one time ever?
21:25 <+perlDreamer> only once?
21:25 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@68.sub-75-205-18.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:26 < BartJol> yes, well at least, one per session
21:26 -!- SDuensin_ is now known as SDuensin
21:26 < BartJol> one for always is also possible, but then I have to store it somewhere
21:26 < BartJol> in the db
21:27 < BartJol> that would be a disc consuming business
21:27 <@preaction> session->scratch is cleaned up when the session is cleaned up
21:27 < BartJol> I know, but that is no really objection to me
21:27  * perlDreamer lunches
21:28 < nuba> BartJol: you need to keep track of it in the cookie?
21:28 < BartJol> no, in a session
21:28 < nuba> BartJol: would storing a row with (date, userid, pageurl) in a DB work for you?
21:29 < BartJol> well, only when it's done when my macro is axecuted, not on page loading
21:29 < nuba> you could regularly expire old records
21:29 < nuba> and its simple to do that with a macro
21:30 < BartJol> can it be done within the api?
21:30 < BartJol> I rather not do it by writuing directly into the db
21:31 < BartJol> then I may have to reprogram it for a new version
21:32 < BartJol> you know what my macro is doing?
21:32 < nuba> well I wold create another DB instead of using WebGUI's
21:32 < nuba> and there, create a table
21:32 < nuba> then theres this, i dont know what you want to do with this data
21:32 < BartJol> well
21:33 < nuba> if you use your DB, your table, your SQL queries wont change
21:33 < BartJol> it's an AddKarma macro, to be executed within a template
21:33 < nuba> unless you change your DB schema
21:33 < BartJol> I'll keep it in mind
21:33 < BartJol> thanks
21:33 < nuba> so you wont have to change it every time WebGUI is released
21:33 < nuba> with a change in the DB
21:34 < BartJol> but it should give karma to the owner of an asset when it's visted
21:35 < BartJol> and I want to implement, that it is possible only once per session
21:35 < BartJol> for one asset
21:35 < nuba> so you want the macro to know what asset it is being called from?
21:35 < BartJol> so I'd like to store the url, so it can check whether the asset is already visited
21:36 < BartJol> yes, but that part is already working
21:37 < BartJol> the url (or in the future you can also choose the Id) is given with the macro by a tmpl_var
21:37 < nuba> sounds interesting. would be great if there was a "run on session expire" feature in webgui.
21:38 < nuba> like event handlers
21:38 < BartJol> but maybe I should also build a choice that it is only possible once per asset revision or asset
21:40 < BartJol> but a db creation is quite usefull, especially for the last option
21:40 < BartJol> will be difficult to check revisions
21:42 < BartJol> and i also have to keep the user visitor in mind
21:42 < nuba> you can store the session hash as well
21:42 -!- wgGuest88 [n=wgGuest8@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has joined #webgui
21:43 < nuba> instead of the user. or both.
21:43 < nuba> if tracking users is of relevance
21:43 < wgGuest88> hello
21:43 < BartJol> hi
21:44 < BartJol> well that was why i limiting it to sessions
21:44 < nuba> BartJol: gimme a sec.
21:44 < BartJol> sure
21:44 < BartJol> what's up wgGuest 88?
21:45 < wgGuest88> i have a question related to the sql forms, when i go to a sql form, it shows the search template as default
21:45 < BartJol> yes
21:46 < wgGuest88> can i change it to show to the template that have the fields to add a new record?
21:47 < BartJol> I suppose so
21:47 < wgGuest88> how can i change it?
21:47 < wgGuest88> do you know?
21:48 < BartJol> oh, there is only one opption, but you did create a new template?
21:49 < BartJol> or do you mean the template that is shown while creating the form?
21:49 -!- wgGuest88 [n=wgGuest8@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has quit []
21:49 -!- wgGuest81 [n=wgGuest8@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has joined #webgui
21:49 < wgGuest81> hello
21:50 < wgGuest81> bartJol, now i am wgGuest81
21:50 < BartJol> i suspected already
21:50 < BartJol> did you get the last remark?
21:50 < wgGuest81> i need to put the template that shows the form as a default when someone go to the sql form
21:51 < BartJol> mmm, I should make an sql form myself, to test it
21:51 < wgGuest81> ok
21:54 -!- wgGuest43 [n=wgGuest4@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has joined #webgui
21:54 < nuba> BartJol: i added this line to my site's modproxy apache config file: CustomLog /tmp/BartJol.log "%{wgSession}C %h %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %b"
21:54 < nuba> then head -1 /tmp/BartJol.log
21:54 < nuba> lGtANrQ0lwU2sHC00wBSEw 201.78.30.151 - - [11/Feb/2008:17:24:49 -0200] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 18738
21:54 < wgGuest43> hi
21:54 < nuba> so you could keep track of urls being visited in a session this way too
21:55 < BartJol> and how do I check that from within the macro
21:55 < nuba> write to a log, then process/rotate it with a cron job
21:55 < wgGuest43> i try to run spectre.pl and Displays the following error: 'jsonToObj' will be obsoleted. Please use 'from_json' instead. at /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8/Config/JSON.pm line 134
21:56 < BartJol> mmm sounds possible, but maybe a bit above my knowledge right now
21:56 < wgGuest43> how i can fix this?
21:56 < BartJol> oh joy JSON again
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21:57 < wgGuest25> hi
21:57 < nuba> maybe it should be added to the topic. "jsonToObj errors? update JSON and Config::JSON!"
21:57 <@khenn> the JSON issue will need to be fixed.  It shouldn't cause any problems though
21:58 <@khenn> just make sure you are running WebGUI 7.4.22
21:58 < BartJol> but I will try to help on the sql issue of wgguest 81/88 template thingy
21:58 <@apeiron> Hmm, if memory serves that's a warning not an error, yes? The "'jsonToObj will be obsoleted'"
21:59 < BartJol> with emphasise on try
21:59 < nuba> another good one for the topic: "Something broke? Did you check docs/gotcha.txt?"
21:59 <@khenn> yes , it's a warning
21:59 <@khenn> nothing breaks
22:00 <@khenn> log it as a bug on pb.com if it's not already there
22:00 < wgGuest25> yes a warning
22:00 < wgGuest25> but, i don't see my webpage
22:01 < wgGuest25> i saw in blank
22:01 <@khenn> that's not because of spectre
22:01 <@khenn> that's a different problem
22:01 < wgGuest81> BartJol, if a call a macro in a template and it returns a collections or records, is posible to show a list of this record directly in the template?
22:01 <@khenn> check the the modproxy logs
22:03 < BartJol> wgguest 81, sorry, I have some issues creating another database, I'm a bit of a sql newby
22:04 < wgGuest81> ok
22:05 < BartJol> still trying though, have to learn
22:07 < wgGuest81> hello all
22:07 < metanil> <tmpl_var form.start> will return the form tag with its proper action.. with i found it doesn't have name..  how can i able to give a simple name to this form.. (implicitly in form.start)
22:08 < wgGuest81> if a call a macro in a template and it returns a collections or records, is posible to show a list of this record directly in the template?
22:08 <@preaction> you can't. you could write your own form.start though (in the template)
22:08 < Samus_Aran> preaction: are you around today ?  I could use a bit of help if you are
22:08 <@preaction> wgGuest81, macros are processed after the template is processed. dunno if that answers your question
22:08 <@preaction> Samus_Aran, can't. taking lunch and buying compy parts
22:08  * preaction &
22:10 < metanil> preaction, you mean 'template' i could see 'form.start' in the template itself. there must be some .pm file which drives this.. is it?
22:10 < Samus_Aran> Radix_: or you, as you mentioned using the proxy thing.  I would like to use the WRE with the pre-existing Apache, using a mod_proxy to hand off requests as appropriate
22:10 < Samus_Aran> preaction: no problem.  enjoy
22:10 < wgGuest81> preaction, if a put the macro in the beggining of the template, it will be executed after the template, too?
22:11 < BartJol> yes
22:12 <@khenn> metainl
22:12 <@khenn> :
22:12 <@khenn> copy the html from <tmpl_var form.start>
22:12 <@khenn> then go into the template
22:12 <@khenn> remove <tmpl_var form.start>
22:12 <@khenn> paste in what it was printing out
22:12 <@khenn> and modify as necessary
22:12 <@khenn> don't change the action
22:12 <@khenn> then you can name it whatever you want
22:13 < BartJol> mmm, mysql won't let me create the db and I don't rmember the db admin passwd comination... so I'm afraid I can't help you at the moment wgguest 81
22:13 <@khenn> you don't need to modify the core of WebGUI to make template changes
22:13 < BartJol> have to fix that first
22:13 < Samus_Aran> does anyone else know anything about using the WRE alongside an existing Apache/Perl/MySQL install ?
22:13 < BartJol> and I like to improve my macro, which also eats time
22:14 < Samus_Aran> as the manual install runs in ultra slow motion for me, quite unusable
22:14 <@khenn> I know it can be a pain to install manually.
22:14 < Samus_Aran> or is there simply some way I can test the WRE on an alternate port ?
22:14 <@khenn> but you know that too
22:14 < metanil> khenn, i am thinking of changing WebGUI::Form::formHeader.. .. is it ok?
22:14 < wgGuest81> thanks BartJol
22:14 <@khenn> no
22:14 <@khenn> don't change that
22:15 <@khenn> next upgrade you'll lose your changes
22:15 <@khenn> just replace <tmpl_var form.start> with raw HTML
22:15 < Samus_Aran> I got it installed manually quite well, without any issues I thought, but then it was going in slow motion.  10 to 30 seconds to load any page, on an unused server
22:15 <@khenn> as long as you have the same action, it will be fine
22:15 <@khenn> Samus, it could be a number of things
22:15 < Samus_Aran> so now I want to try the WRE.  almost got the WRE working on the weekend, but couldn't access the site through the proxy
22:16 < metanil> hmm.. thanks khenn.. 
22:16 <@khenn> it could be: the number of child processes in apache
22:16 <@khenn> I believe WebGUI itself uses 3
22:16 < Samus_Aran> I reduced the children, as they were using tons of RAM
22:17 <@khenn> what did you reduce it to?
22:17 < Samus_Aran> it was at 8 or 10 I think, and each was using around 78MiB RAM
22:17 <@khenn> I think I run my dev server at 5
22:17 < Samus_Aran> which seems highly excessive
22:17 < metanil> khenn, what if that template is used by several pages???
22:17 < Samus_Aran> the server is a dual-CPU 1.6Ghz with 1GiB RAM currently
22:18 <@khenn> metanil: what is the action?
22:18 <@khenn> on each of the pages
22:18 <@khenn> is it posting to itself?
22:18 <@khenn> if so, use the page macro as the action
22:18 <@khenn> Samus:  have you checked DNS
22:18 < metanil> its the page which add this template
22:18 <@khenn> we had issues a few weeks back where the server wasn't recognizing DNS
22:18 <@khenn> which was causing every image to load ultra slow
22:18 -!- wgGuest25 [n=wgGuest2@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
22:19 <@khenn> Haarg would know more about the DNS stuff than I would
22:19 < metanil> khenn, like /home/music/genre/form
22:19 <@khenn> I think we had to explicitly put something in /etc/hosts
22:19 < metanil> for this will only work for form page right?
22:19 <@khenn> metanil: I think the page macro should work fine
22:19 <@khenn> I can't remember what it is
22:19 < metanil> ummm.. yaa. that would be great.
22:19 <@khenn> though
22:19 <@khenn> just set the action of the form to the page macro
22:19 < metanil> (why didn't i think about it before)
22:20 < Samus_Aran> khenn: MinSpareServers      2, MaxSpareServers      4, MaxClients           20
22:20 < metanil> khenn,, and macro will return exact page url, right
22:20 < wgGuest81> BartJol, can you help me tomorrow with the sql form?
22:21 < wgGuest81> i am going to test at night and if a get something i will tell you tomorrow
22:21 < BartJol> well other people know more about it
22:21 < wgGuest81> Who?
22:22 < Samus_Aran> khenn: and I added a MaxRequestsPerChild  300, as I was concerned about a memory leak such as was present with spectre (using 350MiB RAM after 2 days)
22:22 < BartJol> but tomorrow I'm only available til 6 pm cet
22:22 < wgGuest81> ok
22:22 < BartJol> well, I suspect everyone :)
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22:23 <@khenn> metanil: the macro will return the page it's on
22:23 <@khenn> so that actually might not work
22:23 < Samus_Aran> khenn: my Apache threads normally use 4.3MiB RAM, and with WebGUI that goes up to around 78MiB each.  it seems that WebGUI does not play well in a shared environment
22:23 <@khenn> unless the asset itself is the page
22:24 <@khenn> if that's the case, it'll work great
22:24 <@khenn> if the asset is on a page
22:24 < BartJol> wgGuest81, dapperedodo and Mr Hairgrease know a lot about it, but are on holidays right now
22:24 <@khenn> then the post will not work correctly when on the page
22:24 < Samus_Aran> as there are other web sites, which will now use tons of RAM even serving simple HTML pages
22:24 < metanil> hmm.. ya.. i think so..
22:24 < BartJol> but they have a site
22:25 <@khenn> Samus:  here's what I would recommend doing
22:25 < perlmonkey2> is there anyway to have cgi-bin be a functional scriptalias passthru?  I can't seem to make it work.
22:25 <@khenn> download the latest WRE and install it on a test box (or virtual machine)
22:26 <@khenn> then look at how we've configured apache / mod perl / etc
22:26 < BartJol> sorry wgGuest81, I was mistaken, it was on the sqlreport and in dutch.. which might cause some trouble
22:26 < BartJol> but it is www.sqlreport.org
22:26 <@khenn> I run on the WRE 0.81 on a P3 550 with only 512 megs of ram
22:26 <@khenn> and it's actually pretty fast
22:27 <@khenn> so it's definitely something with your configuration
22:27 <@khenn> oh I'm running on Centos
22:27 <@khenn> I also have a dev box on my mac
22:27 <@khenn> but that's a different story
22:28 <@khenn> perlmonkey2:  you need to set up a rewrite rule in apache
22:28 < perlmonkey2> khenn: okay, thanks :)
22:28 < Samus_Aran> khenn: how much RAM do your Apache threads use each ?  mine are 60 to 70MiB each as soon as WebGUI is enabled
22:29 <@khenn> on my P3, I get up to 380 megs used at times
22:29 < Samus_Aran> (with a manual install)
22:29 <@khenn> I've never had the box crash
22:29 <@khenn> and I've never had it run ultra slow
22:29 <@khenn> but again, I'm not using a manual install
22:29 <@khenn> so I'm guessing it's a config / fine tuning issue
22:30 < Samus_Aran> but how much do individual threads of Apache use ?  I want to know if my manual install is completely borked, or if it's normal to use that much
22:30 <@khenn> I don't know how much each individual thread of Apache uses
22:30 <@khenn> I'm not even sure how I would find that out.
22:31 <@khenn> all I can see is how much total ram is being used by Apache
22:31 <@khenn> all I know how to see anyway
22:32 <@khenn> unfortunately we are pretty much at the limit of what I know how to troubleshoot
22:34 < Samus_Aran> if you wanted to see RAM used, this command will do it: \ps ww -e -o rss,args | grep httpd | grep -v grep
22:34 < Samus_Aran> it will display kilobytes of RAM for each Apache thread
22:34 < Samus_Aran> for some unknown reason, when I started up the WebGUI running from the manual install, it is fast
22:35 < Samus_Aran> there is now the /WRE in /data.  perhaps it is using something from in there, even though it shouldn't.  I'm not sure
22:35 <@khenn> i'll check my dev box
22:35 < Samus_Aran> the WRE isn't being used currently
22:35 < Samus_Aran> but pages are loading <1 second
22:35 < Samus_Aran> weird
22:35 <@khenn> hmm
22:36 <@khenn> yeah I'm not sure
22:36 < Samus_Aran> it was a minimum of 5-8 seconds when I was working on it Thursday
22:36 < Samus_Aran> and often 30
22:36 <@khenn> sounds like something you did along the way fixed the problem
22:36 < Samus_Aran> and since then I have not touched my manual install, I just moved it and put it back today
22:36 < Samus_Aran> oh well.  if it's working, it's working
22:36 < Samus_Aran> [until it decides to stop working again, hehe]
22:38 < Samus_Aran> it is perfectly fine now, nice and fast
22:38 <@khenn> I ran that command
22:39 <@khenn> each apache thread is using < 75k
22:39 <@khenn> er < 65k
22:39 <@khenn> er > 65k
22:39 <@khenn> heh
22:39 <@khenn> less than
22:39 < Samus_Aran> I think I will test if it is using some component of the WRE I installed in /data.  I will stop apache, rename /data and then try again
22:39 <@khenn> I take it you have WebGUI installed somewhere besides /data
22:40 <@khenn> ie: /data/WebGUI/lib
22:40 <@khenn> otherwise you might just want to rename /data/wre
22:42 < Samus_Aran> I have my manual install in /var/www/WebGUI and my domain at /var/www/foo.com
22:42 < Samus_Aran> okay, renamed the old /data and restarted ... lemme see if it is slow now
22:42 < Samus_Aran> made no difference.  still nice and fast
22:43 < Samus_Aran> I guess I can remove the WRE now and get on with developing the web site
22:43 <@khenn> well, it's a mystery but it's solved
22:43 < Samus_Aran> phew !
22:43 < Samus_Aran> thanks for your help, khenn and preaction and Radix_ 
22:43 <@khenn> sure thing
22:43 < Samus_Aran> I haven't used WebGUI since v4.x, it has changed a lot.  I find it more confusing now
22:44 < Samus_Aran> but I will try to figure it out
22:44 <@khenn> it's 1000 times the size
22:44 <@khenn> wow WebGUI 4 eh?
22:44 <@khenn> that's a long time ago
22:45 <@khenn> Having used both versions, I can honestly say version 7 is much better
22:45 <@khenn> especially from a developers standpoint
22:45 <@khenn> it's a lot more customizeable
22:45 < Samus_Aran> I find the UI more confusing, however I see a huge number of new features
22:45 < Samus_Aran> and I like features =)
22:46 <@khenn> you think the UI is more confusing?
22:46 < wgGuest24> i have webgui 7.4.18 and don't see my page
22:46 <@khenn> I thought it was much worse when all of the admin stuff was right in the middle of your page
22:46 <@khenn> what do you mean you don't see your page?
22:46 < Samus_Aran> khenn: for example adding a section to a page.  it used to be intuitive, now I'm not even sure how to do it
22:46 < wgGuest24> and in the webgui.log i found this error:  ERROR - spectre.conf - POE::Kernel::_dispatch_event[1012] - ADMIN: Couldn't connect to WebGUI site
22:47 < wgGuest24> what i must do?
22:47 <@khenn> sounds like a configuration problem
22:47 <@khenn> my guess is you have the IP address or port misconfigured
22:47 <@khenn> for spectre
22:47 < Samus_Aran> khenn: e.g. a new column or a paragraph of text.  in 4.x it was very clear what to do, now all I see is "pages".  preaction said that all the sections are pages now, which seems kind of strange
22:48 < wgGuest24> i do a copy of spectre.conf.original 
22:48 < wgGuest24> and don't modified
22:48 <@khenn> the problem is likely in your webgui config file
22:48 <@khenn> do a search for spectre in there
22:49 <@khenn> Samus:  anything in WebGUI can be a page these days
22:49 <@khenn> for instance
22:49 <@khenn> if you wanted to create a page that only had one article on it
22:49 <@khenn> you could simply add the article as a child of home or something else
22:49 <@khenn> expose it to the navigation
22:50 <@khenn> and presto, it's a page
22:50 <@khenn> the only time you really need to use "Pages" per say, is when you want to display more than one  "thing" on a "page"
22:50 <@khenn> I guess that can be a bit confusing
22:51 < Samus_Aran> in WebGUI 4.x, there would often be dozens of items on the page
22:52 < Samus_Aran> each section was self-contained, so you could cut/paste it somewhere else, or move it to a new column, etc.
22:52 < Samus_Aran> I'm not sure how to do that type of management in 7.x
22:53 <@khenn> it's drag and drop now
22:53 <@khenn> add a page layout
22:53 <@khenn> then you can start adding things to that page layout
22:53 <@khenn> those things become children of the page layout
22:53 <@khenn> and you can drag and drop them or move them about via the asset manager
22:54 <@khenn> actually, we have published an entire book on managing content in WebGUI
22:54 <@khenn> https://www.plainblack.com/store/services/books2/webgui-content-managers-guide
22:55 <@khenn> there is a great deal of content in there
22:55 <@khenn> about using pretty much everything in WebGUI
22:55 <@khenn> (in terms of content)
22:55 <@khenn> I gotta run.  BBL
22:55 -!- khenn is now known as khenn_afk
22:55 < wgGuest24> my spectre.conf looks good
22:56 < wgGuest24> i don't know that do?
23:04 < perlmonkey2> With the $15/month PB hoster, there is no way to run custom macros?
23:06 < wgGuest24> que debo hacer??
23:09 < nuba> pregunta y espera
23:10 < nuba> en el entremedio, puedes leer al wiki o a los foruns
23:10 < nuba> lo mejor es que pregunte en inglés
23:11 < nuba> your questions will reach more people this way
23:13 < BartJol> well the session logging seems to work reasonly
23:13 < BartJol> and the owner does not get karma anymore
23:14 < BartJol> but the session logging does not always work great
23:14 < wgGuest24> ya pregunte en ingles y nada
23:14 < wgGuest24> they tell me that my spectre.conf is wrong, but this it's good
23:16 < nuba> wgGuest24: can you handle yourself with a shell?
23:16 < BartJol> but maybe it is just caching
23:16 < nuba> wgGuest24: fire a shell, go to /data/wre/sbin, type '. ./setenvironment' without the quotes
23:17 < nuba> that will set your environment properly
23:17 < nuba> then go to /data/WebGUI/sbin and run 'perl spectre.pl --test'
23:18 < nuba> if you see 'Tests completed.' and no error, your spectre is ok
23:18 < nuba> otherwise it'll spit some error for you
23:18 < wgGuest24> i dn't have wre i have the source
23:18 < nuba> which you should use as your starting point
23:18 < nuba> whoops
23:19 < nuba> its been a while since I used to run webgui without the WRE, not sure I can help you then
23:20 < nuba> anyway, try 'perl spectre.pl --test from wherever it is your WebGUI/sbin is located now
23:20 < wgGuest24> ok
23:20 < wgGuest24> 'jsonToObj' will be obsoleted. Please use 'from_json' instead. at /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8/Config/JSON.pm line 134
23:21 < nuba> perlbot: life with cpan
23:21 < perlbot> Information pertaining to the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN) can be found at http://sial.org/howto/perl/life-with-cpan/
23:21 < wgGuest24> couldn't connect www.ejemplo.com
23:23 < nuba> did you add the proper DNS entries for your www.ejemplo.com site?
23:23 < nuba> or added it to /etc/hosts
23:23 < nuba> ?
23:23 < wgGuest24> yes
23:23 < wgGuest24> and restart apache2
23:23 < nuba> if you type 'host www.ejemplo.com', is it pointing to your machine's IP or some IP apache would be listening at?
23:24 < wgGuest24> yes, my ip, because it's local
23:24 < nuba> what is your webgui release again?
23:24 < wgGuest24> 7.4.18
23:25 < nuba> is this a fresh install ? any reason for not using the latest stable?
23:25 < nuba> actually, any reason for not using the wre?
23:26 < wgGuest24> i have this before, and reinstall my ubuntu and now is install webgui
23:27 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2: you can't run any custom perl code on PB's hosting, unless you get your own server.
23:27 < Samus_Aran> wgGuest24: if it is local, do you have a DNS server or is it in your hosts file ?
23:28 < nuba> you know you could use the wre, install webgui 7.4.18 on it, add a site with the same name of what you had before, then replace the database for the one you had, and place the uploads under /data/domains/www.ejemplo.com/public, and live happly ever after, dont you?
23:29 < nuba> by using the WRE it will be easier for you to get help from the community
23:30 < nuba> ie. in my case I dont really remember a lot of configuring/troubleshooting a lone webgui install, no WRE
23:31 < BartJol> perlDreamer, you mentioned a time ago something about wrting tests
23:31 <+perlDreamer> yeah man
23:31 <+perlDreamer> ready to learn?
23:31 < BartJol> I feel I get in the stage that that might get usefull
23:31 <+perlDreamer> okay, let me throw some resources your way
23:31 < BartJol> ah, that would be nice
23:32 < BartJol> need my mail?
23:32 <+perlDreamer> 1) Get a copy of my Testing Tutorial from WUC 2006.  Koen, Joeri, Martin should all have copies
23:32 <+perlDreamer> 2) perldoc Test::Tutorial
23:32 <+perlDreamer> 3) perldoc Test::More
23:32 <+perlDreamer> if you can't get a copy of my WUC talk, let me know and I'll email you one
23:33 < BartJol> ok, Ill check that tomorrow
23:33 < perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: that's what I remembered, but I wanted to make sure.  Thanks
23:34 <+perlDreamer> and from what I see on their site, $15 hosting is now $20 hosting
23:34 <+perlDreamer> So good job for purchasing early :)
23:35 <+perlDreamer> BartJol: In the meantime, have a look at the tests in /data/WebGUI/t/Macro for ideas and stuff to borrow.
23:35 < BartJol> but it seems to run quite ok right now, but it really needs testing
23:36 <+perlDreamer> with automated tests, no more loading, and reloading, and so on.
23:36 <+perlDreamer> You set it up once, and keep using it.
23:37 < BartJol> but you can do tests what happens on a reload?
23:37 <+perlDreamer> Sure.  Reload is the second time the user accesses the macro.
23:37 < BartJol> check
23:38 < BartJol> right now I already feel a bit proud that I came this far
23:38 < perlmonkey2> what ever happened to crythias?
23:38 <+perlDreamer> You should, man!  You've worked hard and done well.
23:39 < BartJol> it takes some initialisation time, but after that it goes quite ok
23:39 < BartJol> easier to fix mistakes and stuff
23:42 < Samus_Aran> does anyone have any idea why the site search might not work ?
23:42 < wgGuest24> yes i have /data/domain/ejemplo.com/www/public
23:42 < Samus_Aran> I don't get any errors, just no results.  it puts me on the search page again
23:43 < Samus_Aran> hm.  apparently if you use ^c; for the company name, it won't find it when you type part of the name
23:43 < Samus_Aran> I tried some other words and they were found
23:43 < BartJol> ah, yes I heard that it is a bit sensitive sometimes
23:43 <+perlDreamer> Samus_Aran: I _think_ you have to run the site indexer manually when you start the site.
23:43 < Samus_Aran> actually, that isn't the issue.  hm
23:44 < Samus_Aran> it seems to be ignoring my Contact form text
23:44 < Samus_Aran> perlDreamer: I will look into that
23:44 < Samus_Aran> it finds the page names, but not text on the page
23:48 < BartJol> but I'm gonna relax now and test later
23:51 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@130.sub-75-205-112.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:57 <+perlDreamer> I think the SpectreCheck macro needs to use the most maligned HTML tag of all time.
23:57 < Samus_Aran> Does anyone know how I can make the news post immediately ?  it is set to "Commit without approval"
23:57 < Samus_Aran> I thought <blink> was the most maligned
23:58 <+perlDreamer> Yup.  If spectre is broken, then I want it to be very visible.
23:58 <+perlDreamer> Samus_Aran: This is a guess, but try the sitewide settings for autocommit and autoapprove.  They should make that intermediate page go away.
23:59 <+perlDreamer> But they will apply to ALL asset commits, not just the News
23:59 -!- cap10morgan [n=cap10mor@h19-afsc.ded.indra.com] has joined #webgui
23:59 < BartJol> can't you call the macro with tehe rolling eyes of jt?
23:59 < BartJol> xeyes evaluated
--- Day changed Tue Feb 12 2008
00:00 < cap10morgan> What are common causes of this error when trying to exec a workflow instance: "Couldn't execute operation ... Root cause: can't build entity: no body, and not multipart"?
00:00 < BartJol> oh, sorry, it was an acme, and then it would be usefull
00:00 -!- wgGuest24 [n=wgGuest2@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
00:00 < Samus_Aran> perlDreamer: it is a small site, I don't think we will need much of a workflow.  realtime is alright
00:00 <+perlDreamer> cap10morgan: That's a new one on us.
00:01 < cap10morgan> perlDreamer: great! :)
00:01 <+perlDreamer> wanna nopaste some log file output?
00:01 < cap10morgan> that's all of it
00:01 < cap10morgan> w/o turning up the logging level
00:01 <+perlDreamer> webgui.log or error.log?
00:01 < cap10morgan> which i may have to do here shortly...
00:02 < cap10morgan> webgui.log
00:02 <+perlDreamer> check the error.log
00:02 <+perlDreamer> that's not a WebGUI error
00:03 < cap10morgan> hmm, the error.log says nothing when i generate that error
00:03 < cap10morgan> but it does have tons of Apache2::SizeLimit messages
00:03 < cap10morgan> over and over
00:03 < cap10morgan> it's killing processes left and right
00:03 < cap10morgan> hmm...
00:03 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5414 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Macro/_macro.skeleton: added POD to the macro skeleton
00:04 < Samus_Aran> perlDreamer: I really do not understand the versioning used in 7.x
00:04 < Samus_Aran> perlDreamer: I went and clicked on "commit my changes" and it reverted all the work I did
00:05 <+perlDreamer> is Spectre running and configured properly?
00:05 < Samus_Aran> perlDreamer: at this point I am unsure what is going on =/
00:05 < Samus_Aran> running, yes.  configured properly, I don't know
00:05 < Samus_Aran> I did a manual install via the instructions on the web site
00:06 <+perlDreamer> head over to the WebGUI sbin directory and do a perl spectre.pl --test
00:07 < Samus_Aran> ERROR: Spectre cannot communicate with WebGUI. Perhaps you need to adjust the spectreSubnets setting in this config file: <domain>.conf
00:07 <+perlDreamer> well, there you go
00:07 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI can't talk to spectre to commit your assets, so they're locked
00:08 <+perlDreamer> while they're locked, the site doesn't display them
00:08 < Samus_Aran> when I clicked commit, it lcoked them
00:08 < Samus_Aran> *locked
00:08 <+perlDreamer> yup
00:08 < Samus_Aran> okay, going to look
00:08 < Samus_Aran> oh I know what's going on
00:09 < Samus_Aran> or not.
00:09 < Samus_Aran> (I thought it was an incorrect password)
00:09 <+perlDreamer> Samus_Aran: If you've found any of our help useful today, you can help us by making a wiki page with what you've learned today.
00:11 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has quit ["Windows doesn't have users, it has hostages."]
00:12 < Samus_Aran> "spectreSubnets" : [ "127.0.0.1/32" ],  "spectreIp" : "127.0.0.1",  "spectrePort" : 32323,
00:12 < Samus_Aran> that is normal, is it not ?
00:13 <+perlDreamer> looks okay, but then again, I'm not all that familiar with Spectre.
00:13 <+perlDreamer> what's in spectre.conf?
00:14 < BartJol> what happens when you change the ip to the real ip?
00:14 < Samus_Aran> "ip" : "127.0.0.1",  "port" : 32323,  "maxWorkers" : 3,  "webguiPort" : 80,  
00:14 < BartJol> and I've seen other subnets than 32
00:15 < BartJol> I got it working once by changing it to 16 or 24 I believe
00:16 < Samus_Aran> oh my gosh:
00:16 < Samus_Aran> -rw-r--r-- 1 www-data root 246M 2008-02-11 14:15 /var/log/webgui.log
00:16 < Samus_Aran> that is a large log file, considering I have done almost nothing on WebGUI so far
00:16 < Samus_Aran> heh
00:18 < Samus_Aran> hm
00:18 < Samus_Aran> I see this in the log file:
00:18 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5414 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Macro/_macro.skeleton: added POD to the macro skeleton
00:18 < Samus_Aran> main::[[undef]] - Visitor (1) connecting from <external_ip> attempted to make a Spectre workflow runner request, but we're on ly allowed to accept requests from 127.0.0.1/32.
00:18 < Samus_Aran> that appears a lot
00:19 < Samus_Aran> so presumably the router is giving my connection the external IP
00:19 < Samus_Aran> even though both this computer and the server are on the same LAN
00:19 < Samus_Aran> though I thought it was just the webgui process that would connect to it, in which case the IP shouldn't matter
00:20 < Samus_Aran> as it never leaves localhost
00:20 < Samus_Aran> I'm not entirely clear on this whole webgui/spectre communication thing
00:22 < Samus_Aran> this error appears a lot: "Couldn't get UI level of WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WeatherData. Root cause: Can't locate object method "getUiLevel""
00:22 < Samus_Aran> via package "WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WeatherData" at /var/www/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm line 696.
00:24 < BartJol> Samus_Aran, the subnet was changed to 16
00:24 -!- wgGuest81 [n=wgGuest8@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has quit []
00:30 < metanil> Can i have "File submitted by", "File submitted at (time)", "File last accessed by" beside "description" and "last updated" field in the File asset.??
00:31 < BartJol> well you can, if the template variables exist
00:31 <@preaction> not last accessed (unless that means last changed). submitted by is probably easy (<tmpl_var ownerUserId>)
00:32 <@preaction> but you'll need to get the username out of that. probably with a macro. dunno if any macros built-in will do it
00:34 < Samus_Aran> preaction: could you help me figure out why spectre can't communicate with my manually installed webgui ?  it is running very fast now, by the way
00:34 < Samus_Aran> not sure why, but I'm not complaining
00:35 <@preaction> i would bet that spectre is for some reason binding on the external IP. or if your /etc/hosts has yourdomain.com pointing to that external IP, it might show up like that. your best bet would be to do what the error message from spectre.pl --test said, and put your external IP in spectreSubnets
00:37 < Samus_Aran> I just got a new error, when restarting apache and spectre
00:39 < Samus_Aran> actually that error seems to only be because I had stopped apache and then loaded spectre first
00:39 < Samus_Aran> afk brb
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00:58 < Samus_Aran> everything seems to be working now.  added the external IP as a subnet to Spectre
00:59 < Samus_Aran> not sure why Spectre is even looking at the external IP when it's on the same computer as WebGUI
00:59 < Samus_Aran> all my changes reappeared
00:59 <+perlDreamer> Spectre processed the version workflow
01:00 < nuba> i think it would be good if every wiki update would appear here with the wikipage title, and the webgui.org nickname of the person who did the change
01:00 <+perlDreamer> nuba: PB's contract with their provider says "NO IRC"
01:00 <+perlDreamer> You'd have to screen scrape it.
01:01 < nuba> like "Wiki: WebGUI Search System edited by knowmad"
01:01 < nuba> "Wiki: Subscriptions, Manage added by knowmad"
01:02 < Samus_Aran> can the wiki provide a dump of the most recent 50 posts, in xml or csv ?  that would be simple enough to check once per 5 minutes or similar
01:02 < nuba> theres http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki?func=recentChanges
01:02 < nuba> i can whip that up with irssi
01:03 < nuba> perlDreamer: if they can run a irc client from their servers, they can have a irc bot
01:03 < nuba> but maybe even that they cannot do
01:03 <+perlDreamer> it isn't on their servers, it runs locally on the web client in Java
01:04 <+perlDreamer> I've been hounding JT about this for two years.
01:04 <+perlDreamer> He's very adamant about the contract.
01:04 < nuba> it happens that irc client, some bots, and a private ircd (for work), well, thats exactly what I do from my dedacated server :)
01:05 < Samus_Aran> you could also set up an SSH tunnel from the server
01:05 < nuba> never had any issue with the providers. but then my ircd is wrapped with SSL, with a password to connect to the ircd too
01:06 < nuba> and this is a very very low traffic machine
01:09 <@preaction> nuba, if you're willing, JT has said he will accept me building an interface (a la JSON or XML or somesuch) to the data that your bot could use
01:10 <@preaction> of course, one of the features i want to see in the wiki is the ability to subscribe to a wikipage
01:11 <@preaction> which would fulfill the same purpose really
01:11 < nuba> the wiki having a RSS feed would be good enough
01:11 < nuba> does it?
01:11 < nuba> otherwise im scraping it
01:12 < nuba> it would make a lot of sense for me this of people subscribing to a RSS feed of recent changes in a wiki
01:12 < Samus_Aran> nuba: if they can modify the wiki to dump in csv or xml, it will save the server from sending more data than it needs (a whole HTML page)
01:13 < cap10morgan> hmm, a bunch of my modperl instances are segfaulting
01:13 < cap10morgan> any clever tricks to debug why that's happening?
01:13 < cap10morgan> i should say, modperl processes
01:13 < nuba> ktrace?
01:13 < nuba> and kdump?
01:13 < nuba> you can have hours of fun with that
01:14 <+perlDreamer> PB people: When is the rizenator back?
01:14 < nuba> for some offbeat definition of fun, of course
01:14 <@preaction> nuba, i can build a shortcut to the wiki that will give you whatever you want in whatever serialization you want, JSON, XML, or otherwise. (i'd prefer JSON, more possibilities)
01:14 < cap10morgan> nuba: hmm, googling, thanks for the suggestion
01:15 < cap10morgan> nuba: does ktrace work on linux?
01:15 <+perlDreamer> http://www.presicient.com/langjobs/usajobs.html
01:15 < cap10morgan> looks like a bsd thing
01:15 < nuba> cap10morgan: if you launch a single instance of apache, enable ktrace, and reproduce the error, skip to about the end of your dump and its probably around there
01:16 < nuba> thats what I sometimes do on freebsd, dunno what you'd use in linux
01:16 < cap10morgan> ah, ok
01:16 < cap10morgan> i guess that would be strace
01:17 <@preaction> Debugging and profiling mod_perl applications: http://www.perl.com/lpt/a/974
01:20 < nuba> Samus_Aran: for a 18566 bytes html, its ~66MB/day plus some little overhead to retrieve /community-wiki?func=recentChanges every minute and scrap it
01:21 < nuba> preaction: if I can ask, I'd first ask that the wiki outputs RSS so that besides scrapping I can subscribe to it
01:21 <+perlDreamer> yeah!
01:21 <+perlDreamer> RSS
01:21 < nuba> or any webgui wiki
01:21 <@preaction> i could write something to do that, yes
01:22 <@preaction> give me until tomorrow
01:22 < nuba> afterwards looking for other formats like JSON would be ok, but the RSS is the thing I think most people wouldbenefit from
01:22 < nuba> preaction: can plainblack live with 66Mb/day for a few days?
01:22 <@preaction> what do you mean?
01:23 < nuba> if yes im getting this bot to scrap the page and post new updates here today
01:23 <+perlDreamer> one WebGUI download / day from PB is bigger than that, nuba
01:23 <@preaction> yes, but the download doesn't go through webgui
01:23 < nuba> i knkow, but since Samus_Aran brought the worry about MB/day up..
01:23 < metanil> is there any method available in webgui core that will return username from userid (as parameter)???
01:24 <+perlDreamer> metanil: not yet :)
01:24 <@preaction> metanil, print WebGUI::User->new( $session, $userId )->username;
01:24 <+perlDreamer> Sounds like a good RFE
01:25 < metanil> hmm..
01:25 < metanil> ok i'll write my own.
01:29 <+perlDreamer> preaction: How about some golfing :)
01:30 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI::User->new(@_)->username;
01:30 <@preaction> touche
01:30 <+perlDreamer> but it leaves you open to user creation attacks
01:33 < CIA-21> WebGUI: colin * r5415 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (i18n/English/Macro_SpectreCheck.pm Macro/SpectreCheck.pm): adding the SpectreCheck Macro, per the RFE
01:34 <@preaction> what does the SpectreCheck macro do?
01:34 <+perlDreamer> It says whether or not a connection could be made to Spectre
01:35 <@preaction> i suppose that could be useful
01:36 <+perlDreamer> I think it would be more useful displayed in the AdminBar.
01:36 <+perlDreamer> What do you think?
01:36 <@preaction> didn't that RFE say something about displaying it during a commit?
01:36 <+perlDreamer> it's 3-fold
01:36 <+perlDreamer> 1) When committing
01:37 <+perlDreamer> 2) When auto-committing (which is TBD)
01:37 <+perlDreamer> 3) Macro for displaying status
01:42 < cap10morgan> hmm, yeah, strace indicates that i'm sometimes getting segfaults something is retrieved from the db cache
01:42 < cap10morgan> clearing the cache and restarting doesn't help
01:42 < cap10morgan> but switching to file cache does
01:43 < nuba> nice
01:43 < cap10morgan> yep, "select content from cache..." precedes the segfault every time
01:44 <@preaction> weirdness
01:44 < cap10morgan> that seems bad overall
01:44 <@preaction> what does myisamchk say about the cache table?
01:44 < cap10morgan> it's in a bunch of different sites' databases
01:45 < cap10morgan> i mean, i could check anyway, but seems unlikely they're all affected
01:47 < cap10morgan> says 1 client is using or hasn't closed properly
01:47 < cap10morgan> and usable but should be fixed
01:47 < cap10morgan> on 2 sites that exhibit the problem
01:48 < Samus_Aran> How can I check why my contact form is not sending an e-mail to the To and Cc addresses ?
01:49 <+perlDreamer> Samus_Aran: Either a mail server or a spectre problem
01:49 < Samus_Aran> it only saves the data on the page
01:49 < Samus_Aran> perlDreamer: does it use sendmail to send it, or Perl directly, or what ?
01:49 <+perlDreamer> It uses what you told it to in the site Settings
01:49 < Samus_Aran> is there a log file that would show an error ?
01:49 <+perlDreamer> yes
01:49 <+perlDreamer> webgui.log
01:49 < Samus_Aran> okay, will look for site settings
01:50 <+perlDreamer> although, if spectre isn't running, then the workflow to send the emails won't run either
01:52 < Samus_Aran> Spectre is fine now
01:52 < Samus_Aran> after adding the external IP
01:53 < Samus_Aran> I see in Settings under the Messaging tab "SMTP Server" set to "localhost".  it doesn't have options for port numbers or authentication
01:53 < Samus_Aran> I guess I will have to set up a localhost mail server to relay
01:54 < Samus_Aran> I don't think the server has one currently
01:54 <+perlDreamer> i'd bet you can type anything you want in there
01:54  * cap10morgan is disabling Database cache on all his sites
01:54 < Samus_Aran> the mail server we use here requires user/pass authentication and a non-standard port
01:54  * nuba sent a mail asking for the admin of http://chl.be/mascots/ to add gooey there
01:55 < nuba> and now meet ..
01:55 -!- GoeyOfSteel [n=puppetma@hq.imaterial.org] has joined #webgui
01:55 < Samus_Aran> gooey meat.
01:55 < nuba> this is another irssi in my box, which will be my bot
01:55 -!- GoeyOfSteel is now known as GooeyOfSteel
01:55 < nuba> better now
01:56 < nuba> instead of the defunct project2501, which somehow wasnt very popular here
01:57 < nuba> GooeyOfSteel: hello
01:57 <@apeiron> Your puppet master seems the taciturn sort.
01:58 < nuba> i added eliza to it once, let me check..
01:58 < nuba> he was very talkative by then...
01:58 <@apeiron> Or she. :o
01:58 < nuba> the idea was to somehow extract more info from people coming here asking for help
01:59 < nuba> to make troubleshooting easier, after the people had already been milked out of information about their issues :)
02:00 < nuba> it didnt worked as I thought it could, it was a good idea for a startup, unfortunately i forgot to add buzzwords like web2.0 and AJAX to help sell the idea, you know?..
02:01 <@apeiron> nuba, Depending upon the strategy you want to take with it (active vs passive seeding), you may want to take a look at the infobot code.
02:02 <+perlDreamer> Samus_Aran: I'm guessing all that can be specified, but I have no idea how to do it.
02:04 <@preaction> perlDreamer, Samus_Aran: no. it's not. it would be a relatively painless RFE though
02:05 < Samus_Aran> okay
02:05 < Samus_Aran> thank you both
02:05 < Samus_Aran> infobot is nice
02:05 < Samus_Aran> once it gets a large database, that is
02:05 <+perlDreamer> Samus_Aran: submit the RFE, wait for it to be approved, then dump a little karma into it
02:06 < Samus_Aran> is there some way to sort the menu items (flexmenu) ?
02:06 < Samus_Aran> also, where are the descriptions used, when you create a page ?
02:07 < Samus_Aran> in the sitemap, or search or what ?
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02:09 <@preaction> it's available to the template, so most anywhere. it's indexed too, so search yes
02:10 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-226-44-250.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI
02:12 < GooeyOfSteel> GooeyOfSteel: breathe!
02:12 < nuba> oops
02:12 < nuba> GooeyOfSteel: breathe!
02:13 < GooeyOfSteel> nuba: Please go on.
02:13 < nuba> there is eliza again.. now onto the wiki update things...
02:13  * apeiron hands nuba the +5 mace of recalcitrant bot subdoing.
02:13 <@apeiron> er, subduing
02:14 <+perlDreamer> oh no, I think subdoing is much more appropriate for a bot
02:15 < GooeyOfSteel> perlDreamer: Why?
02:15 < metanil> to make a new template variable available in the template, where should i add it? like $var{newtemplatevar} = "val"; .. where should i do this?
02:15 <+perlDreamer> bots are subs doing stuff
02:16 < nuba> perlDreamer: you must prefix your phrases with 'GooeyOfSteel: '
02:16 <@apeiron> nuba, I have an RFE for your bot!
02:16 < nuba> in case you want to talk with GooeyOfSteel...
02:16 <+perlDreamer> GooeyOfSteel: bots are subs doing stuff
02:16 < GooeyOfSteel> perlDreamer: Did you think they might not be subs doing stuff?
02:16 <+perlDreamer> GooeyOfSteel: That is the core concern of any programmer, but you already knew that
02:17 < GooeyOfSteel> perlDreamer: Oh, I already knew that?
02:17 <+perlDreamer> GooeyOfSteel: Of course.  Aren't you self-aware?
02:17 < GooeyOfSteel> perlDreamer: Oh, I self-aware?
02:18 <@apeiron> s/GooeyOfSteel/GumbyBRAIN/g
02:20 <+perlDreamer> indeed
02:20 <@apeiron> perlDreamer, You've met Gumby?
02:21 <+perlDreamer> Like the bendy green guy?
02:21 <@apeiron> Not quite.
02:21 < Samus_Aran> what was Gumby's horse's name ?
02:22 <+perlDreamer> Pokie?
02:22 < Samus_Aran> yes.
02:23 < Samus_Aran> can someone remind me what the item is called that is used for News ?  I accidentally got it removed (I cut it to paste somewhere else, then restarted WebGUI and it went poof)
02:26 -!- cap10morgan [n=cap10mor@h19-afsc.ded.indra.com] has quit []
02:27 < Samus_Aran> I just realised that I only want one set of data, for both the events calendar and the news items, as there is overlap
02:27 < Samus_Aran> not sure how I could do that, though
02:28 <+perlDreamer> pull RSS/Ical from the Events Calendar as you news feed?
02:28 < Samus_Aran> basically one view of the data in month view, and another view of the data in most recent
02:29 < Samus_Aran> I mean, a plain list
02:29 <+perlDreamer> The calendar doesn't do a list view yet.
02:30 < Samus_Aran> if I tell it to export an RSS, can I get a item-by-item listing from that using another plugin ?
02:31  * perlDreamer decides to double check whether the calendar supports RSS before answering
02:31 <@preaction> no
02:31 <@preaction> just iCal
02:31 <@preaction> but you can make RSS out of any asset using shortcuts and template overrides
02:32 <+perlDreamer> are we still planning a general RSS solution for Assets?
02:32 < Samus_Aran> it seems that news and events would go together for many people
02:32 <+perlDreamer> to replace RSSCapable and RSSFromParent?
02:32 < Samus_Aran> I mean, any upcoming event is a newsworthy item
02:34 <+Radix-wrk> the collaboration system has an rss mode doesn't it?
02:34 <@preaction> Samus_Aran, please. if you have RFEs, post them to the RFE list. complaining about WebGUI's shortcomings here is counter-productive. patches are welcome.
02:34 <@preaction> Radix-wrk, yes. same with Syndicated Content assets
02:34 < Samus_Aran> any idea why the heading used for News is more prominent than that used by Calendar ?
02:35 <+Radix-wrk> prolly just different css used in each
02:35 <+Radix-wrk> you can change that through the template easily enough
02:35 <+Radix-wrk> Is the Thingy in 7.5.x yet?
02:35 < Samus_Aran> News uses <h2> and Calendar uses <h1>
02:36 <+perlDreamer> It's just the default template
02:36 < Samus_Aran> they should both be of the same importance
02:36 <+Radix-wrk> file it as a bug then
02:39 <@preaction> or edit the template and attach a package to the bug
02:39 < Samus_Aran> I just checked, and all other objects in my site are using <h2>, so it is the calendar that is doing it wrong
02:39 < Samus_Aran> where is the template ?
02:40 <+Radix-wrk> edit calendar, go to display tab and select edit next to the calendar template
02:41 <+Radix-wrk> easiest way would be to get rid of the title altogether tho :)
02:41 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat039.mxim.com] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]
02:42 <+Radix-wrk> looks like you'd need to edit each different view of the calendar otherwise
02:46 < Samus_Aran> I updated the 4 views.  quite easy, thank you
02:47 <@preaction> a note: if you edited the default templates, they can be overwritten by an upgrade. or you could submit the bug report and attach your changed templates
02:47 <@preaction> or you could copy the default templates and make changes to your copies
02:49 < Samus_Aran> how do I stop an item from taking over the page ?  e.g. on my "News & Events" page I have a News section then a Calendar section.  if any of the items on the calendar are clicked on, such as changing the view, it leaves the page and never goes back
02:50 < Samus_Aran> I don't want an end user seeing any of the sub-pages
02:50 < Samus_Aran> I mean, single components
02:53 <@preaction> didn't we discuss this last night? I know radix shared your sentiments, but it's not possible to do what you want and still get any functionality
02:54 <@preaction> okay, it is possible, but the resulting URLs would be horrendous
02:54 <@preaction> i believe i gave examples using the collaboration system
02:56 < Samus_Aran> I'm not concerned about the URLs, I am concerned about the end user being yanked out of the page they are in the middle of and being confused about how to get the rest of the content on the page
02:56 < Samus_Aran> if someone is scrolling down a page somewhere in the middle, and click a tab on a calendar, the rest of the page shouldn't magically disappear on them
02:57 < Samus_Aran> I haven't seen other web sites behave that way
02:57 < perlmonkey2> Okay, I need to start joining the survey system into WG.  Is the wiki wobject guide + skeleton still the best way to learn how to create wobjects?
02:59 < nuba> perlmonkey2: cool!
02:59 <@preaction> perlmonkey2, yes, for the most part. i've been told that the Gallery is the pinnacle of WebGUI development (i was told to build it as such), so look there for style and ideas on how to do permissions and such
02:59 < perlmonkey2> hah, cool until you realize how complicated WG is
03:00 <@preaction> the skeleton is a bit out of date. there are better ways to do some things
03:00 < perlmonkey2> preaction: thanks :)
03:00 <@preaction> i've been meaning to fix it, but no time (Gallery not done yet)
03:00 < perlmonkey2> preaction: that is what I thought.  I've looked at code and the skeleton and they don't match up well.
03:01 <@preaction> the gallery, galleryalbum and photo assets do things the best way we currently know how
03:02 < perlmonkey2> I don't see a Gallery?  Only the galleryalbulm and utility?
03:02 < perlmonkey2> I don't see a photo either
03:02 < perlmonkey2> not in the source tree yet?
03:03 <@preaction> they're in there
03:03 <@preaction> lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Gallery.pm lib/WebGUI/Asset/File/Image/Photo.pm
03:03 < perlmonkey2> preaction: wow.....I just did svn update 1 hour ago and I'm not seeing that....let me re update
03:04 < perlmonkey2> okay, found Photo.pm
03:05 < Samus_Aran> any idea why, when I have "filter code: nothing" it still doesn't display ^c; as the company name ?  this is on a news item displayed as a weblog
03:05 < perlmonkey2> but Gallery.pm isn't showing up ofr me
03:05  * perlmonkey2 wonders off to try to fix his subversion checkout
03:11 < perlmonkey2> preaction: you just submitted another version, yet I still can't get svn to get that file.  I can see it by browsing to the directory.  Strange.
03:11 <@preaction> weird indeed
03:11 <@preaction> maybe try a full checkout in another directory?
03:15 < perlmonkey2> hmm, reverted to a previous version then updated, and got it.
03:15 <@preaction> weird
03:16 < Samus_Aran> more issues with the weblog display for news: it only displays 8 words, instead of a couple paragrahs, before the "more" link
03:16 < Samus_Aran> *paragraphs
03:16 < Samus_Aran> where would I go to increase this limit ?
03:17 < Samus_Aran> I don't see anything in the template
03:18 < CIA-21> WebGUI: doug * r5416 /WebGUI/ (7 files in 5 dirs): 
03:18 < CIA-21> WebGUI: add: i18n for more Gallery templates
03:18 < CIA-21> WebGUI: add: International macro now takes sprintf arguments as third and subsequent parameters
03:18 < CIA-21> WebGUI: add: Keywords are now processed and given to the photo template, along with a url to search the gallery for the keyword.
03:18 < CIA-21> WebGUI: add: Photos now track views
03:18 < CIA-21> WebGUI: doug * r5417 /WebGUI/docs/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fix: multiple Gallery template fixes
03:19 < perlmonkey2> Samus_Aran: Good question.  What's the template name and I'll look at it.
03:19 < Samus_Aran> weblog under news
03:20 < perlmonkey2> an asset search for weblog brings back one template "weblog".  Is that it?
03:20 < Samus_Aran> Collaboration System Template: Weblog
03:20 < perlmonkey2> k
03:20 < Samus_Aran> yes
03:21 < perlmonkey2> looks like <tmpl_var synopsis> is being set in the wobject
03:22 <+Radix-wrk> tmpl_var synopsis usually picks up everything until the first newline in the text from memory
03:23 <@preaction> or up to the ^; marker (i think that's what it is)
03:23 <+Radix-wrk> ^-; ?
03:23 <@preaction> yeah, that
03:23 <+Radix-wrk> It's something funny like that
03:23 < perlmonkey2> the word synopsis shows up three times in the wobject.....I have no idea what is going on in any three.
03:23 < perlmonkey2> only that one is an rss item.
03:24 < Samus_Aran> "The ^c; beta web site is now up"\
03:24 < Samus_Aran> *all
03:24 < Samus_Aran> that is aklk it shows for me
03:24 < perlmonkey2> $var->{"synopsis.label"} = $i18n->get("synopsis");
03:24 < Samus_Aran> it also doesn't conver the ^c; into a company name, even with filters set to none
03:24 < Samus_Aran> *convert
03:24 < Samus_Aran> (this laptop keyboard sucks)
03:25 <+Radix-wrk> is the c macro listed in your webgui.conf file?
03:25 <+Radix-wrk> it might be disabled by default for some wierd reason
03:25 < Samus_Aran> I will look
03:25 < perlmonkey2> Samus_Aran: Just ot make sure I'm lookin at the right part of the template, the very next thing after the synopsis text, is the weblogReadMore div?
03:28 < Samus_Aran> Radix-wrk: where would webgui.conf normally reside ?
03:29 < Samus_Aran> I have a $PREFIX/etc/WebGUI.conf.original, but don't see any WebGUI.conf or webgui.conf file.  I don't recall instructions telling me to create that one
03:30 < Samus_Aran> I created one for my domain and one for spectre and one for logging
03:30 < Samus_Aran> perlmonkey2: <tmpl_var synopsis> \n <div class="weblogReadMore">
03:33 < Samus_Aran> where would I find the code for: $i18n->get("synopsis");  being called in "lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Collaboration.pm"
03:34 < perlmonkey2> That's whI have no idea how the synopsis is created.  I created a entry.  then changed the text of the entry.  The synopsis still shows the original ocntent even after I cleared the cache and forced a reload.  
03:35 < Samus_Aran> hm
03:36 < Samus_Aran> a simpler question: how do I create a page under another ?
03:36 < Samus_Aran> I don't get what a Folder is versus a Page Layout
03:36 < perlmonkey2> you create page layouts
03:36 < perlmonkey2> a page layouts contains assets
03:36 < Samus_Aran> is a Page Layout an asset ?
03:36 < perlmonkey2> the