--- Log opened Tue Jan 01 00:00:28 2008
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05:18 < CIA-19> WebGUI: colin * r5217 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Asset.t: add tests for getTitle and getMenuTitle
06:18 < CIA-19> WebGUI: colin * r5218 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Asset.t: tests for getToolbarState, toggleToolbar and getUiLevel
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14:03 < CIA-19> WebGUI: doug * r5219 /branch/doug-experimental/lib/WebGUI/ (Asset/Report.pm i18n/English/Asset_Report.pm): Nightly checkin because you forgot
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20:23 < perlmonkey2> Hello?
20:23 < perlmonkey2> Everyone still hung over?
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21:39 < BartJol> well happy new year everybody
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21:48 < CIA-19> WebGUI: colin * r5220 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Asset.t: 
21:48 < CIA-19> WebGUI: Add the failing test for assetAddPrivileges back in, but don't run it.
21:48 < CIA-19> WebGUI: Add tests for assetUiLevel and getUiLevel.
23:48 < CIA-19> WebGUI: colin * r5221 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Asset.t: Coverage tests for assetExists.
--- Day changed Wed Jan 02 2008
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00:12 < dannymk> cap10morgan, please contact me when you get a chance.  I would like to add your patch to my module, however I have a few questions.
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01:18 < dannymk> Hi preaction
01:18 < dannymk> happy new year.
01:18 <@preaction> indeed
01:19 < dannymk> I am in the process of adding Authentication 2.0 to the OpenId module
01:20 <@preaction> nice
01:21 < dannymk> as you requested.   However, the rest will have to wait.  Just started a new Perl training job that is taking up a lot of my time.
01:22 < dannymk> Have you seen cap10morgan on this channel in the last month?
01:22 <@preaction> no problem, i've finally got time and my own branch to start experimenting with, but i've got some productivity things to do first (since everything I do would be so much easier if I didn't copy/paste it every single time, and instead subclassed it)
01:22 <@preaction> yes, once in a while
01:25 < dannymk> I need to talk to him about his patch.  Where can I find his email?
01:26 <@preaction> is his profile private?
01:26 < dannymk> yes
01:29 <@preaction> you might want to just reply to the thread, he'll get an e-mail if he's subscribed to it
01:29 < dannymk> Done!
01:30 < dannymk> I also would like to work on the WChat object.  Since I have been away a while I expect someone else took on the module.
01:30 < dannymk> has it been worked on?
01:30 <@preaction> nope, we've been busy on other things
01:31 < dannymk> Darn, I need to work on that too.
01:31 <@preaction> I've got a little ajax-enabled Shoutbox asset though, if you want the code for that
01:31 < dannymk> Really would love to have that Chat WObject
01:31 <@preaction> i made it as part of the WUC last october
01:31 <@preaction> you still haven't gotten it? we tried about 10 different ways
01:32 < dannymk> yes, I have it now.  Just have not worked on the code
01:32 <@preaction> ah
01:32 < dannymk> would like it to be done!  :-P
01:32 < dannymk> Guess, I have to work on it.
01:32 <@preaction> it'd be nice, to be sure
01:33 <@preaction> but imho there are more important things. the chat wobject is a flashy eye-candy thing, i've got internal mechanical things that i need to work on to make webgui better
01:33 <@preaction> that isn't to say that the chat wobject won't bring more people into webgui than my work
01:35 < dannymk> you guys have your hands full and that is why I help when I can.
01:35 < dannymk> I appreciate the software.  It is clean, simple and somewhat well documented.
01:35 < dannymk> :-)
01:35 <@preaction> have you seen the new URL / Content handlers, they're insanely awesome
01:36 <@preaction> the new developments in 7.5 (HEAD) are going to kick even more ass than 7.4 did
01:38 <@preaction> perlbot crud
01:38 <@preaction> perlbot learn crud as Create, Retrieve, Update, Delete -- the four corners of a proper database management tool
01:38 < perlbot> added crud to the database
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01:47 < dannymk> Not yet, very immersed in this new project I have in my new job
01:47 <@preaction> understandable, new jobs are always fun
01:47 < dannymk> I hate sysadmin/developer work but I hae to make a living :-)
01:47 < dannymk> hae=have
01:47 <@preaction> why do you hate sysadmin/developer work? what would you rather be doing?
01:47 < dannymk> that is why I don't login during the day any longer
01:47 < dannymk> I just rather be just a developer
01:48 <@preaction> ah
01:48 < dannymk> in these jobs I have to be a jack of all trades.  Sysadmin, DBA, Developer, Designer, etc...
01:48 <@preaction> eh, i'm a generalist. i learned how to be a developer, and now that i've got a very decent job doing that, i'm teaching myself how to sysadmin / netadmin / network, etc..
01:48 <@preaction> i like knowing as much as possible about everything
01:49 < dannymk> I have been doing it almost 20 years and my mind can't take all the junk :-(
01:49 < dannymk> just too much to learn
01:50 < dannymk> don't mind working on stuff a bit but when it becomes part of my job then it becomes a problem
01:50 < dannymk> that is why I left my last job after 18 years
01:50 < dannymk> was tired of carrying the DBA
01:51 <@preaction> another middle manager trying to cut corners by making you work three jobs?
01:52 < dannymk> NO, we had a sysadmin which I had to train then we had an older guy that really did not understand Oracle working as an Oracle DBA
01:55 <@preaction> much fun
01:55 <@preaction> as they say, everyone gets promoted just to their level of incompetence
01:55 <@preaction> i feel that some people are better at faking competence than others
01:56 < dannymk> Peter principle all the way, but that is the motto of the federal govt.
01:56 < dannymk> oops, did I say that :-)
01:57 <@preaction> surprisingly we've got a few gov't clients, and they're very helpful when it comes to testing / exercising the code we write for them
01:58 < dannymk> Ah, not every office is like that
01:58 <@preaction> i mean, we've probably doubled the size of WebGUI with one of our projects, and there remain little-to-no bugs in their code since they're so thorough in tracking them down
01:59 < dannymk> Good to know.
01:59 <@preaction> but, it just means they've got competent people. that and their entire department lives and breathes their website
02:00 <@preaction> which is another testament to the stability and usefulness of WebGUI ;)
02:00 < dannymk> well, that may be a well designed office.  Can't say the same for the place I worked.
02:00 < dannymk> yup.
02:02 <@preaction> it's almost as if the bigger an office gets, the more people rubbing shoulders and bumping elbows, the more BS gets floated around, the more market-speak team-building d'ya-have-a-second-to-help-this-guy-every-day-for-his-entire-career, and in a creative business like software development, the best people can't thrive
02:10 < dannymk> ah, you have experience in this area :-)
02:11 < dannymk> LOL.  Well, I hope the new year brings us better circumstances.  Take care and again,  Happy New Year....
02:12 < dannymk> later...
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03:59 < ascii> how ya like dstat
04:00 < ascii> erp
04:48 < CIA-19> WebGUI: colin * r5222 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Asset.t: 
04:48 < CIA-19> WebGUI: Cover several other small utility routines. More getNotFound
04:48 < CIA-19> WebGUI: tests need to be written.
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15:47 < SDuensin> Greetings.
15:50 < BartJol> hi
15:52 < AMH_bob> HAPPY NEWYEAR!!!!
15:52 < BartJol> dito
15:53 < Radix__> Yeah, a belated Happy New Year from me too guys :)
16:12 < SDuensin> Blah.  New Year means I had to go back to work.  :-P
16:26 < Radix__> I'm off until monday
16:27 < Radix__> but I wish I was back at work
16:27 < Radix__> 40'C tomorrow, no aircon at home, and power shortages to boot
16:29 < Radix__> tempted to go in tomorrow and take monday off in lieu ;)
16:30 < Radix__> Oh no.. maybe not.. monday is forecast for 40'C too
16:30 < BartJol> Australian whether isn't much fun, I understand
16:30 < BartJol> wheather
16:31 < Radix__> Actually for most of the year it's great
16:31 < Radix__> just summer sucks
16:31 < Radix__> you get days where it's 40-45'C
16:31 < Radix__> last week we had a temp of 45.5'c
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16:31 < Radix__> highest on record for december since 1963 
16:32 < Radix__> jan/feb always sucks for temps
16:32 < Radix__> http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/wrap_fwo.pl?IDW12300.txt
16:32 < BartJol> here it's about 1 C
16:32 < Radix__> yah, well our temp doesn't really go that low generally.. or very rarely ;)
16:37 < nuba> summer here in Rio sucks a bit too
16:37 < nuba> too hot sometimes
16:38 < nuba> thanks god for A/C
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17:55 <@khenn> happy new year =)
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18:23 < teflond0n> anyone here have any luck importing users into a database for webgui?
18:23 < teflond0n> still havent had any luck with the userImport.pl
18:24 < Radix__> I had no problems at all with userImport.pl
18:25 < Radix__> What's happening exactly? are you getting errors?
18:25 < teflond0n> its saying DateTime isnt defined....   for some reason the perl mods arent wanting to cooperate
18:30 < teflond0n> is there another way to just have it import a csv file or something
18:30 <@rizen> you need to set a TZ environment variable
18:31 <@rizen> like TZ=America/Chicago
18:36 < Radix__> tzselect should help with that
18:36 < Radix__> or tzconfig
18:37 < Radix__> you're going to have other issues later on if you don't sort out the DateTime issue now anyway
18:38 < nuba> spectre would fail for me with 'Cannot determine local time zone' 
18:38 < nuba> until I did a "cp /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Sao_Paulo /etc/localtime"
18:39 < nuba> do your /etc/localtime file exists?
18:50 < Radix__> actually /etc/localtime should be a symlink - and the correct way to configure it is to use tzselect or tzconfig
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18:53 < nuba> makes sense
18:54 < nuba> cp worked fine for me tho ;)
18:56 < nuba> hey, freebsd's tzsetup prefers "cp" too, just tested and it makes a copy, not a symlink
18:57 < Radix__> it'll work.. just not as nice as a symlink ;)
18:57 < Radix__> ubuntu/debian/centos all create symlinks
18:58 < nuba> maybe it's a "Junior" sindrome, these linux kids, always choosing to do different than their daddy (freebsd) ;D
18:59 < Radix__> pfft
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19:24 < teflond0n> i do see the etc/localtime file
19:25 < teflond0n> but I am running it on Mac osx
19:25 < teflond0n> not sure if that will cause any issues with it
19:38 < teflond0n> hey nuba since I live near the Atlanta, GA area would should it be /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/New_York ?
19:44 < Radix__> if it's in the same timezone as you, then yeah, that'd work
19:44 < perlDreamer> ... and WebGUI slowly wakes up from its week-long slumber
19:46 < nuba> 'morning, webgui!
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19:56 < teflond0n> anyone know what the equivalent would be in osx for the tzconfig or tzsetup
19:56 < perlDreamer> sorry, I don't use osx
19:59 <@rizen> you shouldn't need it on osx
20:00 < nuba> i think you can find that under "system preferences"
20:00 <@rizen> osx sets it automatically when you edit your clock
20:00 <@rizen> perhaps you're not using the right perl
20:00 <@rizen> did you do
20:00 <@rizen> . /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment.sh
20:00 <@rizen> note the dot and the space that come before the command
20:02 < teflond0n> i did the command from that directory so it was ./data/wre/sbin/setenvironment.sh
20:02 < teflond0n> no spaces
20:15 < teflond0n> would it be bad to comment that out in the userImport where it asks for the DateTime
20:17 < teflond0n> er possible
20:18 < teflond0n> rizen any more suggestions
20:18 <@rizen> that's bad
20:18 <@rizen> and you need the space
20:19 <@rizen> it's absolutely important
20:19 <@rizen> that's almost certainly where your problem is at this point
20:19 <@rizen> and if it's not, i'd recommend you get plain black support
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20:30 < perlmonkey2> Making the YUI widgets look good is killing me.
20:30 <@khenn> which ones?
20:30 < perlmonkey2> rizen: I'm not that great at layout/design.  Is there a way to make regular html inputs look sexy, because the YUI widgets are too hard to manipulate given they are buried in like 3 objects when created with JS.
20:30 < perlmonkey2> khenn: Menu and buttons.
20:31 <@khenn> the newest yui menu is all CSS based
20:31 <@khenn> never played with the buttons
20:31 <@khenn> but we've made some pretty cool looking drop down menus
20:32 < perlmonkey2> khenn: When selecting a question type in the menu, I dynamically generate options for that question type.  The divs grows and shrinks and I have to do a bunch of crazy stuff to make them look like I want.
20:33 <@khenn> hmm, I guess I'm not following.  You lost me with "question type"
20:34 <@rizen> he's working on the survey
20:34 <@rizen> it's a new ajax style interface for the survey
20:34 <@khenn> ah
20:34 < perlmonkey2> If they had a menu option that was multiple select, I'd just use that.  
20:34 <@rizen> pm2, i'm not a good one to ask. both khenn and preaction have played with yui a lot more than me
20:35 <@rizen> i just use it for adding functionality to form controls
20:35 < perlmonkey2> There button objects, while prettier than radio buttons, are still large and clunky.
20:35 < perlmonkey2> s/there/their/
20:35 < perlmonkey2> I could use css to make them pretty, but that isn't what I do :)
20:35 < perlDreamer> rizen: I think maxscience/iPhoneGuy had a 3rd alias that was also mac related
20:36 <@khenn> css is how to make stuff in yui pretty though
20:36 <@khenn> so you will definitely find it difficult to do w/o it
20:37 <@rizen> perlmonkey2 if you make it work and then give me some sort of documentation on one css classes and ids you've exposed
20:37 <@rizen> i can have our designer come up with the pretty css for you
20:37 <@rizen> or rather, i'll just introduce you to our designer when he comes back from vacation
20:37 < perlmonkey2> rizen: that would be great.  
20:38 < perlmonkey2> rizen: I guess that means I can stop futzing with the layout and just throw it on the page and worry about functionality.
20:38 <@rizen> yup
20:39 <@rizen> what's your email address, i'll send an introductory email to steve 
20:49 < teflond0n> can anyone let me know where the sql database is that contains the list of users ?
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20:49 < perlDreamer> it called "users"
20:50 < perlDreamer> and the groups one is called "groups"
20:50 < ckotil> what about settings?
20:50 < perlDreamer> hmmmm
20:50 < perlDreamer> I think it's called settings
20:50 < ckotil> i dont get it.
20:50 < perlDreamer> and the one for assets is called asset
20:50 < ckotil> who came up with that scheme?
20:50 < perlDreamer> some guy named JT
20:51 < ckotil> he's too smart.
20:51 <@rizen> he's an idiot
20:51 <@rizen> you give him too much credit
20:51 < perlDreamer> what?  you mean he didn't come up with that schema?
20:51 < ckotil> coworker of mine installed the new wre on RH5.
20:52 < ckotil> he said it the installation was a breeze.
20:52 < ckotil> and it was really easy to setup 3 sites.
20:52 < ckotil> he rarely touches webgui, but since i talk about it all the time he decided to try it out.
20:52 <@rizen> nice
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20:54 < perlmonkey2> I set of the WRE on cent5.1 a few weeks ago and it was extremely nice.
20:56 <@rizen> you guys have no idea how glad it makes me to hear that
20:56 < perlmonkey2> I wanted to throw out an idea and see what people thought.  Since disk is becoming really cheap, but CPU/Ram is still expensive as far as hosting is concerned.  What about a Wobject that would allow files to be remotely hosted, but WebGUI would treat them like local files?  Maybe build in DAV support, or something like it?
20:56 <@rizen> it means that the 400+ hours that I put into WRE 0.8 was worth it
20:56 < perlmonkey2> rizen: Yeah, I would never use anything but the WRE for production now.
20:57 <@rizen> pm2: re your idea, i'd need further description to understand what you'd want and why before i could make a judgement
20:57 < perlmonkey2> rizen: Like the file pile but would store the files on a remote file server.
20:59 <@rizen> why would that be good?
20:59 <@rizen> that would actually increase the use of the CPU and memory because then all those files would have to be served through mod_perl so it could request them from the dav server
21:00 <@rizen> that is unless the dav server also had a straight http url for the file and you were willing to expose that url directly to your users
21:00 < perlmonkey2> rizen: I was actually thinking that WebGUI would do a one time authen for the users ip, and the remote file server would directly serve to them that once.
21:01 < perlmonkey2> This may be a solution that doesn't really fit any given problem though.
21:01 <@rizen> hrmm.. i guess off the top of my head i can't see anyone actually using that so it's not something i'd allow in the core
21:01 <@rizen> i do want to go the other way around however
21:02 <@rizen> i want to create a dav interface into webgui
21:02 < nuba> i've been toying about the idea of sending static content somewhere else, too
21:02 <@rizen> so you can use webgui as a file store
21:02 < nuba> keeping only the webgui brains running in my dedicated box, 
21:02 < nuba> and push uploads etc to a cheap hosting elsewhere
21:02 <@rizen> nuba, you can already do that
21:02 < nuba> you can do that with modproxy and rewrites, yeah
21:02 <@rizen> you can just push all the static uploads to a file server using a remote mount
21:02 < nuba> but how about sync etc?
21:03 < nuba> suppose there's no remote mounting
21:03 <@rizen> and then change your uploads folder to point to http://files.example.com/uploads/
21:03 < nuba> you won't see that in the feature list of these mega-cheap hosting plans
21:03 < perlDreamer> you also won't see WebGUI there, nuba
21:03 < perlDreamer> unfortunately
21:03 <@rizen> you can use ftp as a remote mount
21:03 < nuba> yeah, thats why i dont even think about pushing webgui there
21:03 < nuba> just the uploads etc
21:03 <@rizen> you can also use FUSE scpfs
21:03 < perlmonkey2> those mega cheap hosters allow ftp
21:04 < perlmonkey2> I've found that those mega cheap hosters are also extremely slow.  They brag about 1 million TB connections to the net, but the reality is like 128kb
21:04 < nuba> yeah, then theres the latency between uploading the file to the webgui host and it being pushed to the cheapass server
21:06 < perlDreamer> rizen: tonight could you please turn on the -v switch to testCodebase so I can diagnose the failing DeleteExpiringWorkflows test?
21:06 < perlDreamer> actually, doesn't have to be tonight.  Any night would be good.
21:10 < nuba> to be honest, i didnt stop to think thoroughly about this yet, of coupling webgui dox + cheapass server
21:11 < nuba> for now a single dedicated box is good enough for me
21:12 < nuba> a seducing "next step" lately has been checking the amazon's EC2 thing
21:13 < perlDreamer> I looked at that as a smoke testing platform
21:13 < perlDreamer> Seemed expensive for a volunteer budget
21:13 < nuba> instead of ugly hacking and glueing of scattered hosting services here and there
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21:16 < nuba> rizen: wont PB.com be interested in funding the smoke test box?
21:18 < perlDreamer> they run a smoke test now
21:18 < perlDreamer> but I was thinking bigger.  Multiple OS'es, multiple WRE's
21:18 < nuba> i see. like a testing farm.
21:18 < perlDreamer> yeah
21:18 < perlDreamer> it's been really hard to get other people into testing wG
21:21 < nuba> what are the requirements if one wants to help?
21:22 < perlDreamer> there are two main testing needs
21:22 < perlDreamer> 1) We need lots more tests to be written
21:23 < perlDreamer> and that can be done piecemeal
21:23 < perlDreamer> 2) I think we need a testing aggregator to take smoke reports from lots of users and coallate them
21:23 < perlDreamer> but we don't have the lots of users part yet so it's a lower priority
21:24 <@rizen> pd: just turned on the -v flag, please let me know when we can turn it off again
21:24 < perlDreamer> okay.  Tomorrow should be good to turn off.  It will just make a BIG smoke report tonight
21:24 < perlDreamer> hm.  Maybe I should add in diagnostics so we can truly do it in one shot...
21:25 < perlDreamer> I think a test may be leaking Session information, which is why the test DeleteExpiredSession test is failing
21:25 <@rizen> pd, i have a spare box running vmware that i use for compiling and testing the wre on multiple platforms (everything except mac and windows)
21:26 <@rizen> however, the problem with using that is when it comes time to build a new WRE, i'll have to resetup all the tests again
21:26 <@rizen> that's more work for me
21:26 < perlDreamer> right
21:26 <@rizen> and i'm already a big bottlekneck
21:26 < perlDreamer> it would be good if it was scriptable
21:27 < perlDreamer> the host would instanciate the virtual sessions, run a test on them, submit the smoke report for each
21:27 < perlDreamer> but I don't know if that is possible on VMware or not
21:27 < perlDreamer> besides, it would be good to get more people in the community involved if possible
21:27 < nuba> vmware has a perl api
21:28 < nuba> so you could switch machines on, off, etc with a script if you want
21:28 <@rizen> all the vmware hosts are up all the time
21:28 <@rizen> so we don't need to turn them on or off
21:28 <@rizen> it's a beefy box
21:28 <@rizen> dual proc xeon with 4gigs of ram
21:28 <@rizen> so it can actually run about 6 os'es at the same time reliably
21:29 < nuba> nice
21:29 <@rizen> pd, i could give you access to the box if you would like to set it up as a test system for multiple platforms
21:29 < nuba> sounds like you're proud of you muscle car^H^H^Hserver ;)
21:30 < perlDreamer> sounds like I need start researching aggregators then :)
21:30 < nuba> webgui@home
21:30 < perlDreamer> smolder
21:30 <@rizen> we could have them all post to the smoke tests forum
21:31 < perlDreamer> yes, but aggregators can also generate reports with the data, like "This test started failing on this platform at that SVN rev"
21:31 < perlDreamer> but while the research gets done, it wouldn't hurt to post them
21:32 <@rizen> ah
21:32 <@rizen> that's very cool
21:32 <@rizen> i didn't know such a thing was even possible
21:32 <@rizen> you rock pd
21:33 <@rizen> btw, hop on IM and i'll give you the login info for that box
21:38 < nuba> rizem, why is it a good idea for spectre to handle tasks to a mod_perl enabled httpd instead of launching a WebGUI::Session-enabled, lean, script?
21:38 < nuba> rizen*
21:39 <@rizen> for lots of reasons
21:39 <@rizen> 1) spectre is single threaded
21:39 <@rizen> so if something crashes
21:39 <@rizen> it would crash spectre
21:39 <@rizen> by keeping spectre small and clean, less chance of crash
21:40 <@rizen> 2) the mod_perl processes are already running so why not use them instead of loading all that code into ram yet again
21:40 <@rizen> 3) you can load balance workflows by adding more webgui nodes
21:40 <@rizen> and thusly the workflow engine can grow with your web site
21:40 <@rizen> is that good enough?
21:40 < nuba> you could work around 1 with 'perl spectre_worker_instance.pl "do stuff"' with return code
21:41 <@rizen> i could, and i did in the early versions of it
21:41 <@rizen> but 2 and 3 made me realize that was dumb
21:42 < nuba> ok, thanks for the reply
21:48 < nuba> another thing: i was editing some branches having many posts (about 3k total), and when clicking on 'save' the mod_proxy httpd would timeout while waiting for the mod_perl httpd's reply to the post. I didnt check the code but I risk guessing a branch edit means finding every descendant asset and creating a revision, creating the workflow instances, etc, all in a single request, is that right? 
21:50 <@preaction> yeah
21:53 < nuba> and then, these timeouts became such a pita, and the toones of workflows became such a pita, that i deleted the entire site, and migrated again from scratch, this time adjusting all I wanted while creating the asset, to avoid "branch edits"
21:57 < nuba> but basically, the idea is that "branch edit" dont seem to be scaling the way it works now
21:58 <@rizen> they don't scale well right now
21:58 <@rizen> it's on my todo list to fix eventualy
21:58 <@rizen> they work fine if you have less than 100 children
21:58 <@rizen> but if you have more than 1000 children they are a concern
22:00 < nuba> k
22:02 < nuba> i wonder if slicing the work with a recursive approach would be better, doing stuff like 1) edit me, 2) queue the task of editing for my children.
22:03 <@rizen> it needs to be fixed in one of two ways
22:03 < nuba> just my $0.02
22:03 <@rizen> either generate a workflow that will make all the edits to children
22:03 <@rizen> or change the screen to stream informtation back to the browser
22:03 <@rizen> as it makes changes
22:03 <@rizen> so that it doesn't time out
22:04 <@rizen> and the user gets immediate feedback
22:04 < nuba> yup
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22:23 < nuba> i had more questions but can wait 'till hes not afkb anymore ;)
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22:24 < nuba> spanishinquisiti: nobody expected you here
22:25 < nuba> NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!
22:25 < spanishinquisiti> si`
22:26 < nuba> well i'll paste the questions here, so rizen can asnwer later if he wants, or not at all..
22:29 < nuba> 1) is WebGU::Session memory-hungry or its just me? While importing the 3k posts (photo gallery, each post w/ at least one pic), i had to do it in chunks (of about a hundred posts each), otherwise the import script would grow to eat all available memory and then die.
22:34 < nuba> thats all for now :)
22:41 <@preaction> WebGUI::Session is huge, yes. but it has everything inside of it
22:41 <@preaction> there are things though, that might be able to be taken out when developing/running utility scripts, such as the query log, if it's possible
22:56 < perlDreamer> preaction: have you ever tinkered with Test::Builder?
22:56 <@preaction> not as such, no
22:56 < perlDreamer> I've been trying to fix the problem with TODO tests with wg::Test::Maker::* and haven't had any luck
23:02 <@preaction> do we assume that anyone running SVN HEAD does a resetdev after every svn update? (or at least, if things break spectacularly)?
23:02 < perlDreamer> if things break spectacularly, resetdev is the first thing I do
23:02 <@preaction> or should we start instituting a plan to make running HEAD more managable, if/when the new upgrade system is implemented
23:03 <@preaction> oh, dur, new upgrade system negates the need for it
23:03 < perlDreamer> what's the new upgrade system?
23:04 <@preaction> when it gets implemented: it's basically a way for each commit to SVN to be a "release"
23:04 <@preaction> releases are based on patches, which may or may not have associated collateral / executables
23:05 <@preaction> of course, there's a -stable and -unstable branch, etc... full-featured, etc...
23:11 < perlDreamer> rizenisafk: amazon is getting into the self-publishing biz.  I don't know how their rates compare to Lulu
23:17 < perlDreamer> That should help locate the extra session leaker.
23:18 < CIA-19> WebGUI: colin * r5223 /WebGUI/t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm: add more diagnostics to help find the leaking session. These will be removed or hidden behind conditionals later
23:34 <@preaction> it's possible to test the operation of a utility script, correct?
23:34 <@preaction> i suppose the better question is should I? if it's being added to core
23:38 < perlDreamer> I would, but I'm prejudiced that way
23:38 < perlDreamer> I think new "Perl" way to do script testing is to wrap the guts in a module
23:38 < perlDreamer> and both the script and test exercise the guts
23:38 < perlDreamer> kind of MVC for scripts
23:44 <@preaction> it's for migrating different types of content into a Gallery, i don't like the idea of putting "addAlbumFromCollaborationThread" in the Gallery, though the idea does have merit
23:44 <@preaction> it's just the modular way seems messy and the monolithic way seems messy
23:44 < perlDreamer> or make a Gallery::Utility module?
23:44 <@preaction> ah, true
23:45 <@preaction> that sounds good, i'll do that
23:45 <@preaction> then i can also add the addAlbumFromFilesystem and i think there was another script that they wanted
23:47 < perlDreamer> cool!
23:49 < perlDreamer> you're right about the messiness.
23:50 < perlDreamer> Either it's all monolithic and you have to drive it with system calls
23:50 < perlDreamer> or you pull it into two pieces
23:50 < perlDreamer> which both need documentation, etc
23:52 <@preaction> it'll be good writing the Gallery::Utility framework though, and provide a way for people to make their own migration things
--- Day changed Thu Jan 03 2008
00:07 < perlDreamer> So hopefully by tomorrow I'll have the failing DeleteExpiredSessions test diagnosed
00:07 < perlDreamer> and that will just leave us with the TODO'ed and SKIP'ed Gallery* tests
00:07 < perlDreamer> the eternally failing i18n label tests
00:07 < perlDreamer> and the help.t test which is failing on empty Gallery* keys
00:07 <@preaction> the failing i18n/help tests are false keys
00:07 <@preaction> yeah
00:08 <@preaction> i'll be working on all that for the next week or two, so no need to worry about those
00:08 < perlDreamer> some of the i18n are false keys, the rest are from WebGUI::Setup and nested scope with i18n calls
00:08 <@preaction> (admittedly, in addition to new dev)
00:08 <@preaction> but there is one i'm still wondering about: one test in the gallery still fails
00:08 <@preaction> Test::Deep says "expected 6, recieved 6"
00:08 <@preaction> so afaik it should pass
00:09 < perlDreamer> Well, yes and no.
00:09 < perlDreamer> That's actually a false warning
00:09 < perlDreamer> I worked on that a little yesterday
00:09 < perlDreamer> Check the commit log and that test for more info
00:09 <@preaction> k
00:09 < perlDreamer> The "real" problem is that asset sizes are wrong between the two methods of fetching the file_loop
00:10 <@preaction> oh, ew
00:10 < perlDreamer> yeah, one says 311 bytes, the other says 313
00:10 < perlDreamer> only two bytes different
00:10 < perlDreamer> very strange
00:10 <@preaction> so we leave it for now?
00:10 <@preaction> i mean, hiding it behind TODO or SKIP seems wron
00:10 <@preaction> g
00:11 < perlDreamer> I TODO'ed it for now, so that when it gets fixed it will "Unexpectedly pass"
00:11 <@preaction> sounds good
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00:25 < perlDreamer> vayde: can you take this guy? http://www.zedshaw.com/rants/rails_is_a_ghetto.html
00:26 < vayde> sure.  want me to rip his lungs out?
00:26 < perlDreamer> Nah.  He's only ranting at ruby people.
00:26 < perlDreamer> besides, if you break his toes one by one it's better
00:27 < vayde> dunno if I have the patience for that.  I tend to prefer one good hard cross to the throat
00:27 <@preaction> this post, from the first few paragraphs, sounds like pure win
00:28 < vayde> though as I glance down this page, I feel the urge to do a similar page for the morons who originally wrote the code I'm hacking these days
00:28 < vayde> doStuff(\%$ref);
00:29 < vayde> long time no chat preaction, how's things?
00:29 < perlDreamer> That might actually be useful, as I think it creates a "safe" ref back to $ref that doesn't allow stomping on it.
00:29 < perlDreamer> but it could be written more clearly
00:29 <@preaction> doStuff sounds like fun
00:29 <@preaction> things going about as normal, much new ideas but no time to implement them
00:29 < vayde> yeah, it *could* be useful like that perlDreamer, but they thought they had the original $ref to wrik with
00:30 < vayde> sweet.  Just before christmas I finished rewriting this one site's code a 3rd time cos the morons supporting it don't think that changing a site I'm migrating will affect the schedule
00:31 < vayde> even the project managers are starting to talk about buying me a ticket to go 'talk' to the bozos
00:32 < nuba> heh
00:32 <@preaction> lol
00:33 < nuba> >Their ideas were horrendously lame. I swear if someone says they.re starting a social network I.m gonna beat them with the heel of my shoe.
00:33 < nuba> poor guy
00:33 < CIA-19> WebGUI: graham * r5224 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetTrash.pm): fix: Assets with no committed versions may be left as orphans when parent is purged
00:33 < perlDreamer> Haarg: You beastie.  Hack on!
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00:39 < vayde> jeez this guy's got a head of steam going.  where did you find this?
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00:39 < perlDreamer> slashdot
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00:40 < vayde> hmm, musta missed it this morning.  Bank woulda filtered it out anyway
00:40 < perlDreamer> it just popped up within the last hour or so
00:40 < perlDreamer> you woulda seen it tomorrow
00:42 <@preaction> the argument on ThoughtWorks and the Consulting thing is spot-on
00:48 < CIA-19> WebGUI: graham * r5225 / (3 files in 3 dirs): 
00:48 < CIA-19> WebGUI: Merged revisions 5224 via svnmerge from
00:48 < CIA-19> WebGUI: https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/branch/WebGUI_7.4
00:48 < CIA-19> WebGUI: ........
00:48 < CIA-19> WebGUI:  r5224 | graham | 2008-01-02 16:18:53 -0600 (Wed, 02 Jan 2008) | 1 line
00:48 < CIA-19> WebGUI:  fix: Assets with no committed versions may be left as orphans when parent is purged
00:48 < CIA-19> WebGUI: ........
00:48 < CIA-19> WebGUI: chrisn * r5226 /WebGUI/ (6 files in 5 dirs): 
00:48 < CIA-19> WebGUI: Add fine-grained export controls. You can now specify whether you want specific
00:48 < CIA-19> WebGUI: assets to be exportable. If any of an asset's parents aren't exportable, that
00:48 < CIA-19> WebGUI: asset also won't be exportable.
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00:51 < perlDreamer> apeiron: with a default of 0, won't that disable exporting for the whole site when the user upgrades?
00:51 <@apeiron> perlDreamer, hm.
00:52 < perlDreamer> or am I reading the sense of the bit backwards?
00:52 <@apeiron> No, you've got it right.
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00:55 <@apeiron> perlDreamer, But on the other hand, if it defaults to 1, those who *don't* want to export the entire site when they upgrade have to change a lot of assets.
00:56 < perlDreamer> Exactly, but currently wG allows exporting the entire site.  At the very least I think it would need something in the gotchas.txt file for the release.
00:56 < perlDreamer> and, they'd only need to change the website root (defaultAsset), since it checks all parents
00:57 < perlDreamer> so, if the default is 1, then you set any "node" to 0 to disable all of its children from exporting
00:57 <@apeiron> Good point, sir.
01:01 <@preaction> yeah, i'm with colin: every upgrade must maintain the status quo. if they want change, they can do the work
01:01 <@preaction> is there an edit branch entry for the exportable property?
01:02 <@apeiron> Not yet anyway.
01:04 < perlDreamer> preaction: I'm in violent agreement with you preaction, with the caveat "maintain the status quo whenever possible".
01:04 < perlDreamer> In any case, I think this is a cool feature to add to wG
01:04 <@apeiron> Violent agreement? 
01:04 <@apeiron> You're taking up arms? :)
01:05 < perlDreamer> You ever watch an arguement where two people totally agree with one another but disagree on semantics?
01:05 < perlDreamer> "violent agreement"
01:18 < CIA-19> WebGUI: chrisn * r5227 /WebGUI/ (lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.4.18-7.5.0.pl): Maintain status quo and keep the default of exporting all assets.
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02:23 <@rizen> nuba: WebGUI::Session is not memory hungry that I know of. Are you sure it wasn't just your script? Could you provide me with your script so I could use it as a test case?
02:24 <@rizen> preaction: yes we assume that svn update means reset dev in a lot of cases
02:25 <@rizen> perldreamer, do you have a link to the amazon self publish?
02:28 < perlDreamer> re amazon: AP article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080102/ap_on_hi_te/business_of_life;_ylt=AhD5AwPjqeEzMAkaVBdrWqMDW7oF
02:28 < perlDreamer> amazon in particular: createspace.com
02:33 < CIA-19> WebGUI: colin * r5228 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.4.18-7.5.0.pl: reorder upgrade steps so that addIsExportable happens before we try to update the templates
02:33 < CIA-19> WebGUI: colin * r5229 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Asset.t: update plan and invert test for new default for isExportable
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15:56 < SDuensin> Greetings.
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17:57 < BartJo1> yeah, just made my first sql report with template and it works!
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19:12 < perlDreamer> Now, that's what I call a test log!
19:27 < perlmonkey2> Setting visibility to hidden in a div should make all the children of that dom be inivisible.  That is unless you are using YUI which will laugh at your css and make you cry.
19:28 < nuba> heh
19:29 < perlmonkey2> Even doing this after all the YUI objects have been created does nothing: var temp = document.getElementById("editanswer");
19:29 < perlmonkey2> 146             temp.setattribute("visibility","hidden");
19:29 < perlmonkey2> I need a stick to beat YUI with.
19:30  * nuba handles perlmonkey2 a large trout
19:31  * perlmonkey2 wraps it in tinfoil and butter and places it over a camp fire.
19:32 < nuba> very good, indeed its better to tell horror stories at night about YUI than resorting to violence :)
19:33 < nuba> YUI the CSS eater
19:34 < perlmonkey2> heh
19:35 < perlmonkey2> I can't be too mad at it, I have some groovy drag and drop boxes with some totally cool menus that change dynammically depending on what you click.  Looks slick.
19:44 < perlmonkey2> My JS-foo was rusty.  setattribute is not synonymous with .style.
19:50 < perlDreamer> rizen: ping
19:50 <@rizen> pong
19:51 < perlDreamer> does each child apache process end up with a session?
19:51 <@rizen> no
19:51 <@rizen> each page request ends up with a session
19:51 <@rizen> and the session is destroyed at the end of the request
19:51 < perlDreamer> how 'bout each spectre runner?
19:51 <@rizen> when i say destroyed i mean closed by the way, not deleted
19:52 < perlDreamer> right
19:52 <@rizen> spectre does the same thing because as far as webgui is concerned it's just another web browser
19:52 <@rizen> and spectre keeps track of the session id cookie just like a browser, so it reuses the cookie for subsequent requests
19:53 <@rizen> must get lunch now, be back in 10 min
19:53 < perlDreamer> it's okay, you can have 30
20:00 <@rizen> back
20:00 <@rizen> i can eat lunch whilst answering your questions
20:01 <@rizen> mmmmmm. leftover meatloaf sandwiches
20:11 < perlDreamer> Well, instead of digging, let me tell you what I see from the big test log of 2008
20:11 < perlDreamer> The tests start with 3 pre-existing sessions.
20:12 < perlDreamer> Sessions also seem to be added and deleted, regardless of whether or not the test creates and cleans them up
20:12 < perlDreamer> so I was trying to figure out where they might come from
20:13 < perlDreamer> here's the summary of the session info:
20:13 < perlDreamer> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m61f41342
20:13 < perlDreamer> so that's the mystery
20:13 < perlDreamer> the good news is that it has little, if anything to do with the DeleteExpiredSessions test failing
20:14 <@rizen> is that session objects or session ids?
20:14 < perlDreamer> session ids
20:14 < perlDreamer> select sessionId from userSession
20:14 <@rizen> all the tests get the session from WebGUI::Test->getSession though don't they?
20:14 < perlDreamer> yes and no
20:15 <@rizen> so if there's a problem wouldn't it be there?
20:15 < perlDreamer> they all get their main session from getSession
20:15 < perlDreamer> but some of them create auxiliary sessions for testing using Session->opn
20:15 < perlDreamer> open
20:16  * perlDreamer digs a little
20:16 <@rizen> there shouldn't be many of those though, so it should be easy to locate and clean up problematic ones, right?
20:16 < perlDreamer> yes, but the first test run does not create 3 additional sessions
20:17 < perlDreamer> they were there before
20:17 < perlDreamer> the test started
20:18 < CIA-48> WebGUI: jt * r5230 /tools/makerelease.pl: added verbose option and turned on <pre> blocks in message board formatting
20:18 < perlDreamer> to me it looks like something else aside from the test is using the database
20:20 <@rizen> well the build script uses the database
20:20 <@rizen> to construct the create.sql
20:21 <@rizen> the tests actually run as part of the nightly build process
20:21 <@rizen> which has to generate a create.sql script
20:22 <@rizen> that means it also runs the upgrade script
20:22 <@rizen> it does that before the test process starts running
20:32 < perlDreamer> that would explain it
20:32 < perlDreamer> I did find a test that is leaking sessions
20:32 < perlDreamer> Session/Scratch.t
20:44 < nuba> rizen: do we stick with the Locator name for the map asset?
20:44 < nuba> maybe Map instead?
20:45 <@rizen> don't care
20:45 < nuba> k
20:45 < nuba> just so you know, im back working on it since yesterday
20:46 <@rizen> nice
20:47 < nuba> ive cleaned up my notes, and now I happen to know webgui's api better, so im rebooting the project and reusing some of the stuff i wrote hastly in aug/07
20:47 < nuba> what do you recommend, check out the head or work on 7.4.19-stable?
20:48 < perlDreamer> usually, all new dev is supposed to happen on HEAD
20:48 < CIA-48> WebGUI: colin * r5231 /WebGUI/t/ (Session/Scratch.t Workflow/Activity/DeleteExpiredSessions.t): 
20:48 < CIA-48> WebGUI: Clean up all temporary session info in Session/Scratch.t
20:48 < CIA-48> WebGUI: Add a preliminary run of DeleteExpiredSessions to DeleteExpiredSessions.t
20:48 < CIA-48> WebGUI: to clean up any old, funky sessions which might just be lying around
20:48 < CIA-48> WebGUI: and interfering with the test.
20:48 <@rizen> check out head
20:49 <@rizen> feel free to branch head for your own work if need be like preaction did for the calendar
20:49 <@rizen> that way you can continuously commit
20:49 <@rizen> and not lose any work if your computer dies
20:49 <@rizen> then you can merge back to head when you're done
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21:13 < perlDreamer> rizen: please pull the -v switch from the nightly smoke test run.  That test should pass now.
21:31 <@rizen> ok
21:33 < CIA-48> WebGUI: jt * r5232 /tools/makerelease.pl: don't need the -v anymore
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22:54 < nuba> checking out HEAD to my SVK mirror..
22:54 < nuba> will branch from there
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23:16 < nuba> actually, head, body, limbs, etc.
23:18 < perlDreamer> nuba: was it hard to plug WebGUI's SVN into SVK?
23:18 < perlDreamer> I've wanted to try for years, but haven't spent the time to actually do it
23:18 < nuba> just followed http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/subversion
23:19 < perlDreamer> and then import that into your SVK repo?
23:19 < perlDreamer> nm, I see there's a new section in there
23:20 < nuba> yeah, the only thing missing there is "svk depotmap --init"
23:23 < nuba> it me took about 30 mins to go from rev 1 to rev 5232
23:25 < nuba> it was like history flashing before my eyes! :D
23:30 < perlDreamer> it imported the whole thing?  That would be huge!
23:31 < nuba> 157M    .svk/
23:32 < nuba> not as mammothy as i expected, too
23:33 < perlDreamer> I kinda wish we also had imported the CVS history into there, too.
23:46 < nuba> is that still available somewhere?
23:46 < perlDreamer> maybe.  if it's anywhere, it would be on sourceforge
23:47 < perlDreamer> project name pbwebgui
23:48 < CIA-48> WebGUI: colin * r5233 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Post.t: 
23:48 < CIA-48> WebGUI: AssetTrash bugfix exposes bad test code. There's no need to
23:48 < CIA-48> WebGUI: purge when you can roll back a commit container asset like the CS.
23:52 < nuba> its still there http://pbwebgui.cvs.sourceforge.net/pbwebgui/
23:53 < perlDreamer> cool
23:53 < nuba> goes as far as beta 3.7.0 
23:53 < perlDreamer> researching the history in SVN is a little tricky because there was a repo reorg last year
23:54 < nuba> yep
--- Day changed Fri Jan 04 2008
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00:24 < nuba> hey, how do you guys go about running HEAD? manually check upgrade_7.4.18-7.5.0.pl for changes every update?
00:25 < nuba> i just got a fatal cause column isExportable didnt exist yet..
00:26 < perlDreamer> what rev did you pull?
00:26 < nuba> is this a mistake (whoever added it to upgrade_7.4.18-7.5.0.pl forgot to add it to create.sql) ?
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00:26 < perlDreamer> It's not a mistake, since create.sql is for VERSION-1
00:27 < perlDreamer> you install create.sql and then run the updater
00:27 < nuba> 5234 
00:27 < perlDreamer> that's also what I'm running, and it installs fine
00:28 < perlDreamer> can you paste your resetdev script output please?
00:28 < nuba> ok. now, what about keeping it in sync?
00:28 < nuba> its manual tracking of upgrade_7.4.18-7.5.0.pl, isnt it?
00:29 < nuba> i mean, the way to go
00:29 < perlDreamer> you mean between your branch and HEAD?
00:29 < perlDreamer> yes, manually
00:29 < nuba> ok, thx
00:31 < nuba> i've no resetdev below /data/
00:32 < nuba> is that edible?
00:32 < nuba> :)
00:32 < perlDreamer> it's a script that everyone has made.
00:32 < perlDreamer> there should be one in the core
00:33 < nuba> this is on wre 0.7.
00:33 < nuba> is it a wre script?
00:33 < perlDreamer> I don't use the wre, so I'm not sure
00:33 < perlDreamer> see this: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m681280b
00:38 < nuba> thanks
00:39 < nuba> i'll modify this to fit my setup
00:39 < nuba> so this is THE resetdev?
00:40 < perlDreamer> no, it's just mine
00:41 < perlDreamer> for THE resetdev, I'd ask a Plain Black staffer
00:41 < nuba> looks like something useful to have at  https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/browse/tools/
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01:14 < nuba> perlDreamer: you may want to look into upgrade.pl's --skipBackup --skipDelete --skipMaintenance for line 18 of http://webgui.pastebin.com/m681280b
01:15 < nuba> to make it faster
01:16 < perlDreamer> thanks, nuba!
01:17 < perlDreamer> preaction: does the WRE have a builtin resetdev script?
01:17 <@preaction> not that i'm aware of
01:17 <@preaction> there's a better solution that graham was working on that didn't require so many passwords, but dunno how far he gots
01:17 <@preaction> i made some of my own improvements to resetdev, but it's still a hack
01:18 < perlDreamer> care to share?
01:18 <@preaction> one sec
01:18 < perlDreamer> just don't paste it directly channel.  It makes Doug mad.
01:21 <@preaction> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m96d02d1
01:24 < nuba> good, incorporating lines 16-20 into my hacked version of pD's resetdev lookalike
01:24 < perlDreamer> nuba: you only need to do that if you want to go through the initial site setup
01:25 < perlDreamer> if I understand what's going on correctly
01:25 < nuba> yeah, i got it
01:25 <@preaction> 16 is the site setup, 17 is show debug more, 18-20 is start with auto-commit and real-time workflows
01:26 < perlDreamer> I have an idea
01:26 < perlDreamer> Why don't we make one that is universal, in two flavors
01:26 < perlDreamer> WRE and non-WRE?
01:26 < perlDreamer> and then check them into the /tools area in SVN?
01:27 <@preaction> there's a tools area?
01:27 < perlDreamer> Yeah
01:27 < perlDreamer> It's at the top-level
01:27 < nuba> https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/browse/tools/
01:28 < nuba> or maybe, if you're going to try doing it WRE/non-WRE neutral, at WebGUI/sbin
01:30 <@preaction> it should be possible to do one resetdev for both WRE and non-WRE, with some decent sanity checks
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01:32 < perlDreamer> hail, rizen
01:33 <@rizen> only here for 32 seconds
01:33 <@rizen> don't hail me =(
01:33 < perlDreamer> ah
01:33 < perlDreamer> not hailed like a taxi-cab, hail like greeted with honor and respect
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01:52 < perlmonkey2> If anyone cares the survey system is coming along nicely.  Tomorrow I'll put something public up for those who care to see how it is going.
01:52 < perlmonkey2> It isn't tied to WebGUI yet, just javascript scalfolding for creating surveys.
01:52 < perlmonkey2> g'night.
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01:59 <@preaction> should've gotten him his own branch
02:00 < perlDreamer> yeah
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02:12 < dionak> perlDreamer, are you awake?
02:17 < perlDreamer> I'm here
02:22 < perlDreamer> well, kinda here anyway
02:22 < perlDreamer> dionak: I'll be bouncing back and forth between two cubes, but I'm around.
02:23 < dionak> perlDreamer: Hm. Sounds like you're busy. You had asked the other day if I have read Perl Best Practices and I just wanted to answer. It is on my list but has not been completely read yet. 
02:31 < perlDreamer> yes, I remember that. I had a question about stringy eval, but it's since been answered by JT checking in WebGUI::Pluggable
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02:41 < dionak> interesting...
02:41 <@rizen> what is?
02:41 < dionak> WebGUI::Pluggable
02:43 <@rizen> oh, i'm quite proud of how it turned out
02:44 < dionak> I can see why. :) I didn't realize you were planning a plugin system. How are you envisioning this to be used? 
02:45 < dionak> it looks like you've been doing quite a bit of work.
02:45 <@rizen> most of the work i'm doing these days hasn't shown up in svn yet
02:45 <@rizen> only little things
02:46 <@rizen> but if you look at the pluggable urls, content handlers, or auth system (WebGUI::Operation::Auth) you'll see how it's used
02:46 < dionak> looking..
02:46 <@rizen> tonight i'll convert macros and some other plugin points to use it as well
02:46 < dionak> thats really cool, JT
02:47 <@rizen> WebGUI::Pluggable is meant to be used at all plugin points to provide a speedy, easy, and secure way of loading plugins
02:47 < dionak> so we could create our own plugin for a new auth method, for instance...
02:47 <@rizen> you always could, it's just that now there's a standard way that all plugins are loaded, rather than having each plugin system write it's own mechanism for loading them
02:48 <@rizen> WebGUI::Pluggable is really meant to be used by core developers that create plugin entry points
02:48 <@rizen> not so much for people who write plugins
02:48 < dionak> ah, ok.
02:49 <@rizen> so if at some point you decided "JT, I think that session sub-objects should be pluggable?" 
02:49 <@rizen> i'd say, great, let's use WebGUI::Pluggable to make that happen
02:50 < dionak> gotcha
02:56 <@rizen> have you seen the pluggable URL and content handlers
02:56 <@rizen> i would think that those would probably be quite useful to Knowmad
02:57 < dionak> i'm trying to envision how to use that
02:58 < perlDreamer> you could use it to call PHP
02:58 < dionak> so we could setup urls that handle content in a certain way?
02:58 <@rizen> well for URL handlers
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02:59 <@rizen> you can write a custom application at a specific URL that is not an asset
02:59 <@rizen> therefore it doesn't load the asset system on those requests
02:59 <@rizen> and thusly is much faster
02:59 <@rizen> and less resource intensive
02:59 < dionak> nice...
02:59 < dionak> so we could use that for integrating software 
02:59 < dionak> which we do a lot
02:59 <@rizen> also, some people don't want to write assets because they are too complicated, or you never want more than one instance of it on a site
02:59 <@rizen> absolutely
02:59 <@rizen> that's a great example
03:00 <@rizen> you still have all of webgui's resources available, but you choose how to use them
03:00 <@rizen> rather than being confined to the asset architecture
03:00 <@rizen> for reusable content objects, asssets are great
03:00 < dionak> wow, that's really very useful. 
03:00 <@rizen> but for integration, assets are rarely great
03:00 <@rizen> and for content handlers...have you ever wished you could have  your own pluggable operations?
03:01 < dionak> yea, 
03:01 <@rizen> well with content handlers you could make your own operations system that would do whatever you wanted it to do
03:02 <@rizen> instead of op= you could have knowmad=
03:02 <@rizen> as in /page?knowmad=dothis
03:02 <@rizen> all the existing ops will still work
03:02 <@rizen> but now you can add your own things
03:02 <@rizen> and since it's not using the op= interface
03:02 <@rizen> you don't have to worry about conflicting with future changes in webgui
03:02 <@rizen> because knowmad= is your own namespace
03:03 < dionak> so if i wanted to use another piece of software for say, forums or blogging or whatnot, I could just hook it in? That will certainly open up the possibilities for selling the CMS. 
03:03 <@rizen> oh yeah
03:03 < dionak> Yea, that will work well. I'm looking forward to trying that
03:03 <@rizen> ever since i built the asset system into webgui it has become more of a cms and less of a framework
03:03 <@rizen> it's moving away from it's framework roots
03:03 <@rizen> so i decided it needs to get back tot he basics
03:04 <@rizen> which is why i introduced pluggable url and content handlers
03:04 <@rizen> if you're interested, there's an article in the black blog that explains it a little
03:05 < dionak> cool, i'll share it with the group and check out the blog. Btw, I just noticed how few articles are on Sitepoint.com for perl.  Looks like a good writing opportunity.
03:06 <@rizen> never even heard of that site
03:06 <@rizen> but if it's low on perl articles, you're right
03:06 <@rizen> a great opportunity
03:07 < dionak> it's a top site on the web
03:07 < dionak> check it out. i have to grab some dinner. thanks for the info!
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03:18 < CIA-48> WebGUI: jt * r5234 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Macro.pm: switched macro system to use WebGUI::Pluggable
03:33 < CIA-48> WebGUI: jt * r5235 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation.pm: converted WebGUI::Operation to use WebGUI::Pluggable
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05:15 < nuba> 'night folks
05:15 <@rizen> howdy
05:15 < nuba> off to bed!
05:16 <@rizen> bye
07:15 <@preaction> although i get annoyed by it, i am liking how the writing of tests are revealing bugs in almost completely unrelated areas
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07:16 <@preaction> latest bug: I seem to get intermittent "Cannot call purgeRevision on an undefined value" when rolling back a version tag containing Threads, but rolling back by going into the site itself works just fine
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08:33 < CIA-48> WebGUI: doug * r5236 /WebGUI/ (6 files in 6 dirs): Added migration utility for Gallery
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14:03 < CIA-48> WebGUI: doug * r5237 /branch/doug-experimental/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Nightly checkin because you forgot
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15:38 < SDuensin> FrIdAy!
15:55 < BartJol> good morning to you
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17:05 < wgGuest40> hello
17:05 < wgGuest40> i have a question
17:06 < wgGuest40> a macro can return a array of elements?
17:07 < BartJol> well I think so
17:09 < BartJol> it might complicate your return statement
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17:13 < wgGuest40> why?
17:14 < wgGuest40> why the return statement will be complicated?
17:16 < BartJol> well, just a layout thingy, if all the output is placed on one line without delimiters
17:17 < BartJol> I'm not an expert in these matters, just trying to help...
17:18 <@rizen> macro can't return an array
17:18 <@rizen> it must return a string
17:18 <@rizen> that said, if you want it to return a comma delimited string
17:18 <@rizen> that string could then be passed in to to another macro
17:22 < wgGuest40> ok
17:23 < wgGuest40> thanks
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17:42 < perlmonkey2> It could return a Storable object which could be any complex data structure.
17:42 < perlmonkey2> oh, they left.
17:42 < perlmonkey2> freeze is so underutialized :P
17:42 <@rizen> freeze is bad
17:42 <@rizen> and not allowed in webgui
17:43 < perlmonkey2> serializing is bad?
17:43 <@rizen> actually storable isn't allowed in webgui
17:43 <@rizen> no serializing is good
17:43 <@rizen> storable is bad
17:43 <@rizen> because it's binary storage, which is architecture dependant
17:43 <@rizen> so it's not portable
17:43 <@rizen> we recommend serializing to json
17:44 < perlmonkey2> hmm......so freezing on my x64-86 won't thaw on my x86?
17:45 < perlmonkey2> json is good too.  json is also underutialized.  it is especially good for moving data to/from JS :)
17:52 < perlmonkey2> FYI: Storable has 'nstore' which is arch independant.
18:08 < BartJol> well, it's weekend for me, beers, here I come
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18:09 <@rizen> it's supposed to be arch independent
18:09 <@rizen> but we had some problems with it a while back
18:10 <@rizen> people transitioning from PPC to intel on mac lost a bunch of poll data as a result
18:10 <@rizen> so we decided then that it was time for it to go away
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19:00 < perlmonkey2> Wow, well that sucks.  I won't be using Storable anymore then.
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19:24 < perlDreamer> yeah!  "Clean" test results again!
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20:00 <@rizen> wahoo pd
20:00 <@rizen> nice job
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20:21 < perlDreamer> rizen: Do the modules in Operation/*.pm need to be Plug'ed, too?
20:21 <@rizen> are there any other than auth that load plugins?
20:21 <@rizen> i don't think so
20:22 <@rizen> i already made Operation.pm use pluggable
20:22 < perlDreamer> Several of the modules load things using eval.
20:22 <@rizen> oh
20:22 < perlDreamer> SpellCheck, Workflow
20:22 <@rizen> then yes we should do it
20:22 <@rizen> oh good point
20:22 <@rizen> i forgot about those
20:22 <@rizen> you want me to do it, or are you going to do it?
20:22 <@rizen> i suppose i should
20:22 < perlDreamer> I can do a few of them today
20:22 <@rizen> i shouldn't make you clean up my mess
20:22 <@rizen> that's bad
20:23 <@rizen> i'll do it
20:23 < perlDreamer> as you wish
20:23 <@rizen> i'll do it now
20:23 < perlDreamer> ack eval Operation/*
20:23 <@rizen> i'm going to leave commerce as is for now
20:23 <@rizen> since i'm working on replacing it
20:24 <@rizen> ooh
20:25 <@rizen> i should be using $class->can in WebGUI::Pluggable
20:25 <@rizen> that would be a good extra check
20:25 < perlDreamer> would that work on procedural code?
20:25 < perlDreamer> or just on objects?
20:25 <@rizen> no just on the objects
20:25 <@rizen> i don't think that would work on procedural
20:25 <@rizen> but if it would, that would be sweet
20:25 <@rizen> could you look that up for me?
20:26 < perlDreamer> yup
20:26 < perlDreamer> no procedural code
20:26 < perlDreamer> and doesn't work on AUTOLOADs
20:30 <@rizen> oh crap
20:30 <@rizen> then maybe i shouldn't do it
20:30 <@rizen> because then i can't use instanciate() on form controls
20:31 < perlDreamer> not unless you call the form directly, instead of going through WebGUI::Form
20:31 < perlDreamer> iirc, WGBP says that AUTOLOAD is not recommended
20:31 < perlDreamer> but I don't know if we've thought that far ahead yet
20:32 <@rizen> yeah, but autoload makes the form system usable
20:32 <@rizen> without it, the form system wouldn't be nearly as cool
20:42 <@rizen> wow there are a lot of plugin points in webgui that i forgot about
20:43 <@khenn> like what?
20:43 <@rizen> form controls, workflow activities, form helpers, workflow helpers
20:43 <@rizen> just to name 4
20:43 < perlDreamer> Asset constructors
20:43 < perlDreamer> i18n
20:43 < perlDreamer> Help
20:44 <@rizen> no, you did the last 2
20:44 <@rizen> and i know about asset, i just don't know how to do that one yet
20:44 < perlDreamer> I was just adding to the list of plugin points
20:44 <@rizen> it's a bit more complicated
20:44 <@rizen> oh, i thought this was a list of ones i forgot
20:44 <@rizen> not a complete list
20:44 <@khenn> yeah the ones you forgot
20:44 < perlDreamer> my bad
20:44 <@khenn> pd just started listing them all =)
20:44 <@rizen> for a complete list we also have auth modules, macros, url and content handlers
20:47 <@rizen> oh and any object for that matter
20:47 <@rizen> as a parameter to a workflow activity
20:53 < perlDreamer> whoa
20:53 < perlDreamer> I think I found the first WebGUI constructor that doesn't take a session object
20:54 <@rizen> which is?
20:54 < perlDreamer> WebGUI::Search::Index
20:54 <@rizen> that's a mistake if that's the case
20:55 <@rizen> it certainly should have a session
20:55 < perlDreamer> hm
20:56 < perlDreamer> I guess it does get a session, but it takes an asset as an argument
20:56 < perlDreamer> it must get the session from that
20:56 <@rizen> ah
20:56 <@rizen> yeah it doesn't make sense to pass it in twice
21:01 <@rizen> pd could you look at line 323 of WebGUI::Workflow::Instance for me
21:02 < perlDreamer> sure
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21:02 <@rizen> it seems like that shouldn't work
21:02 <@rizen> because $params is an array reference
21:03 <@rizen> and i think it should be @{$params} to make it work
21:03 <@rizen> but there haven't been any complaints, so i don't know what's up
21:03 < perlDreamer> maybe they don't take params yet?
21:03 < perlDreamer> or all expect array references?
21:07 < perlDreamer> my Workflow/Spectre-fu isn't that great
21:07 < perlDreamer> but it looks like it's creating itself over again
21:07 < perlDreamer> because $class and $method come from $self, rather than the activity
21:10 < perlDreamer> obviously, I'm not paying enough attention in the Workflow class :)
21:10 <@rizen> i think i'm going to stop second guessing myself
21:11 <@rizen> it's obviously working or workflows everywhere would be going to hell in a handbasket
21:12 < perlDreamer> in my Workflow Instance table, all classes and methods are NULL
21:13 <@rizen> you probably only have maintenance workflows up right now
21:13 <@rizen> which have no objects
21:13 <@rizen> most workflows are maintenance type
21:13 <@rizen> but approval workflows work on version tags
21:13 <@rizen> and lots of other workflows work on groups and users
21:14 < perlDreamer> you're right, I don't have any of those running right now
21:14 <@rizen> workflow is kind of an insane bitch
21:14 <@rizen> but i'm glad i wrote it
21:14 <@rizen> it makes so many other things in webgui so much nicer
21:14 < perlDreamer> I'll understand it better once I've tested it
21:14 <@rizen> like the new commerce system for example
21:17 < perlDreamer> I'll understand that once I've tested it, too
21:17 <@rizen> you won't have to test that
21:17  * perlDreamer briefly considers changing his nick to V'GER
21:18 <@rizen> i'm building it doing test driven dev
21:18 <@rizen> holy crap, i just cut about 40 lines out of WebGUI::Workflow::Instance due to WebGUI::Pluggable
21:19 < perlDreamer> refactoring rocks
21:19 <@rizen> overall I'd say WebGUI::Pluggable has eliminated about 250 lines of code
21:27 <@rizen> oh wait, ->can will work with the forms system
21:27 <@rizen> because it's in the AUTOLOAD method that we call can
21:28 <@rizen> we're not calling it on an autoload method
21:34 < CIA-48> WebGUI: jt * r5238 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (4 files in 3 dirs): converted workflow system to use WebGUI::Pluggable
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21:41 < cap10morgan> should ?op=spectreGetSiteData ever return an empty json object? (i.e. just "{}")
21:42 <@rizen> no, at the very least it should have 2 nodes, the workflow and schedule nodes
21:42 <@rizen> i forget the exact labeling
21:42 < cap10morgan> ok, that's what i thought
21:42 < cap10morgan> hmm, my sites are returning empty objects
21:42 < cap10morgan> on 7.4.14
21:42 < cap10morgan> i'll try restarting
21:42 <@rizen> those nodes may be empty if you have no schedules or workflows
21:42 <@rizen> but they should at least exist
21:42 < perlDreamer> is there anything in your webgui.log?
21:43 < cap10morgan> right
21:43 < cap10morgan> no, i need to turn up the logging level though
21:43 < perlDreamer> there is one way for it to return {}
21:43 < perlDreamer> and that's if you make an out of subnet request
21:44 < cap10morgan> perlDreamer: ah, that could be
21:44 < perlDreamer> see line 62 of Operation/Spectre.pm in HEAD for an example
21:44 < perlDreamer> if the request is out of subnet, it will issue a security warning and then fall through to the bottom
21:44 < cap10morgan> yep, that was it
21:44 < cap10morgan> thanks pD
21:44 < perlDreamer> no sweat
22:11 <@rizen> pd you around?
22:11 <@rizen> i don't understand what i'm looking at in WebGUI::Operation::Help _loadHelp
22:12 <@rizen> oh nevermind
22:12 <@rizen> now i do
22:14 <@rizen> crap
22:14 <@rizen> i don't know how to load it though
22:18 < CIA-48> WebGUI: jt * r5239 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (4 files in 2 dirs): migrated forms system to use WebGUI::Pluggable
22:18 < CIA-48> WebGUI: jt * r5240 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/ProfileSettings.pm: converted to use WebGUI::Pluggable
22:32 <@preaction> would non-508-compliant asset templates in the core be considered a minor/cosmetic bug?
22:33 <@rizen> depends upon the asset
22:33 <@preaction> or since WebGUI is international, is there an international standard we can achieve?
22:33 <@preaction> i seem to be getting bunches of questions about 508 and accessibility these days
22:33 <@rizen> the internatlonal standard is WAI compliance put forth by the W3C, however many countries (including the US) require their own compliance standards
22:34 <@rizen> for example, the project manager asset as far as i'm concerned, doesn't need to be WAI compliant because it is an intranet style app
22:34 <@preaction> my reply is invariably: depends on what the designer does, but a minor audit i conducted gave a few places where we could improve (if we're not, in fact, breaking 508)
22:34 <@rizen> however, any app used by the general public should be WAI or section 508 compliant
22:34 <@preaction> ah, of course
22:34 <@preaction> the Collab System being one of those that might need a little 508 help
22:35 <@rizen> probably
22:35 <@rizen> it's such a big ass app these days
22:35 <@preaction> inaccessible tables, there needs to be all manners of weird tags in tables
22:35 <@preaction> that too
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23:03 < CIA-48> WebGUI: doug * r5241 /WebGUI/ (10 files in 4 dirs): Removed old .tmpl files from upgrades. All upgrade collateral must now be in .wgpkg packages
23:04 <@rizen> soooooooooooo cooool
23:04 <@rizen> i'm going to have to bring that up in one of the black blog NEXT posts
23:32 < perlDreamer> rizen: I'd split it into two parts
23:32 < perlDreamer> 1) the load
23:32 < perlDreamer> 2) the data access
23:33 <@rizen> i'm thinking about leaving it as is
23:33 <@rizen> since it's a special case anyway
23:33 <@rizen> or does that seem bad?
23:36 < perlDreamer> "It's always easy to stay within strong boundaries."
23:36 < perlDreamer> I'd covert the load to use Pluggable
23:38 <@rizen> your mom is a ______
23:38 <@preaction> when a workflow activity has an error, it's supposed to increment the priority level, correct?
23:38 < perlDreamer> ex-nurse
23:39 <@rizen> in spectre yes
23:39 <@rizen> not in the workflow table
23:39 <@preaction> ok
23:40 <@preaction> seems to not be happening, which is causing the same 5 activities to keep running over and over. i'll try to find out why
23:41 <@rizen> blame apeiron
23:41 <@rizen> it's fun
23:42 <@apeiron> No, see, that's apeiron v1.0, the 2.0 model isn't fun any more.
23:42 <@apeiron> However, recent versions of khenn are still fun to blame.
23:42 < perlDreamer> does it throw an exception when falsely blamed?
23:43 <@apeiron> Of course.
23:44 < perlDreamer> must be good code then
23:45 <@rizen> let's try
23:46 <@rizen> my $apeiron = $pb->getEmployee("chris");
23:46 <@rizen> say $apeiron->blame;
23:46 < perlDreamer> you forgot to catch the exception
23:47 <@rizen> i'm waiting to see die output
23:47 <@rizen> so far nothing is printing
23:47 <@rizen> this is a slow program
23:47 <@rizen> hrmmm...maybe it's hung
23:47 <@preaction> it's backed up with errors from other processes
23:47 <@rizen> i guess i'll have to kill it
23:47 <@rizen> `killall apeiron`
23:48 -!- apeiron was kicked from #webgui by rizen [rizen]
23:48 < perlDreamer> it's a remote process, all you did was detach it
23:48 <@rizen> that seemed to work
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23:49 <@rizen> oh no
23:49 <@rizen> kill one employee object and an old one pops up in it's place
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23:50 <@rizen> ping vayde
23:50 -!- apeiron [n=apeiron@c-71-230-67-187.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
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23:51 <@rizen> hrm
23:51 <@preaction> resurrected!
23:51 <@rizen> it's not responding either
23:51 <@rizen> but the apeiron process spawned again
23:51 <@rizen> it appears that killall needs a --stay-dead option
23:51 <@preaction> so the getSuspendedQueue in spectre is supposed to have the same priority as the original workflow. and the "workingPriority" is the new priority that spectre itself uses?
23:51 < perlDreamer> I told you that this was just a remote connection
23:52 <@apeiron> Error: caught fatal MessingWithApeiron exception! Aborting...
23:52 <@rizen> finally some output from that damn program
23:53 <@rizen> i guess he was right, you can't blame him without trapping the exception
23:53 < vayde> hey rizen, how you been?
23:53 <@rizen> preaction: that sounds right, but i don't know unless i look at the code
23:53 <@rizen> terrible
23:53 <@rizen> wow i must need a new computer
23:53 <@rizen> my ping command took forever to respond
23:53 <@rizen> and it didn't follow protocol either
23:54 <@rizen> the vayde program is broken
23:54 < vayde> lol.  yeah.  I get that alot
--- Day changed Sat Jan 05 2008
00:04 <@preaction> looks like it's just the spectre.pl --status message, it doesn't show the right working priority for suspended workflows, i expect because they're added to the suspended queue at their original priority
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00:29 <@preaction> there's still legacy workflow activities that have a 60-second run-time, would it be cool if I made that configurable? i've got 26000 e-mails and a site that seems to add them faster than they can be removed
00:30 < perlDreamer> I think 60 seconds might be an "important" number
00:30 < perlDreamer> like, the spectre time ping interval
00:30 <@preaction> it was, but that was changed iirc
00:31 <@preaction> because now we have the workingPriority thing
00:31 < perlDreamer> well, if that's so (and admittedly, my spectre-fu is weak) then it should be okay to configure it.  TMRFE buy-in is always good.
00:32 <@preaction> i updated the time, the job runs every minute now, but it still only gets rid of about 20 each time, which takes (say) two minutes (due to spectre overhead and other factors)
00:33 <@preaction> perlbot math (26000 / 20 * 2) / 60 / 24
00:33 < perlbot> 1.80555555555556
00:33 < perlDreamer> 20 email/minute seems very, very slow
00:33 <@preaction> it'll take two DAYS to get through these...
00:33 < perlDreamer> which server is that?
00:33 <@preaction> the Alumni site
00:34 <@preaction> they continue to stress parts of WebGUI that I don't think anybody else does
00:34 < perlDreamer> I meant, which email server?  sendmail, qmail, exchange .. ?
00:34 <@preaction> we use sendmail iirc
00:35 < perlDreamer> and it will take two days as long as no new ones are added
00:35 <@preaction> they have applications that allow them to send large HTML-formatted mails
00:35 < perlDreamer> and they're using the collab as an email list server?
00:35 <@preaction> to every user in their database
00:35 <@preaction> 20,000+
00:35 <@preaction> so i think they used it once, maybe twice (since they can also configure who gets the messages, so not everyone has to)
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00:36 <@preaction> so i was thinking some sort of message priority / first-in-first-out system
00:36 <@preaction> since important messages like lost passwords and welcome messages with important instructions are not getting sent out because they're behind (ordered by what though) other, less important messages
00:37 < perlDreamer> A FIFO system will still block, but the messaging priority sounds good.
00:37 <@preaction> ordered by priority first, FIFO second (to make sure there's absolutely no chance that this kind of thing can happen again, unless the priorities are messed up
00:38 < perlDreamer> I see. ORDER BY priority, dateSubmitted
00:38 <@preaction> so i propose both really, because if you send a huge mass at the same priority, and then add another mass, but expect the first to be send before the second, you'll be disappointed
00:39 <@preaction> laugh, i'm up to 28000 now :p
00:39 < perlDreamer> see, that's 10% more in 5 minutes
00:40 < perlDreamer> we need to find a better way to do large messages/large recipient sets
00:41 <@preaction> since most of there are the same message? but it's possible to personalize, no?
00:41 <@preaction> isn't that what the "toGroup" thing in mailQueue is for?
00:42 < perlDreamer> sure, but would a forking dispatcher help?  Is sendmail the limiting factor, or is it Spectre?
00:42 <@preaction> the application generates a list, but it could generate a Group instead
00:42 <@preaction> it seems like some get sent faster than others
00:43 < perlDreamer> I'll be back in a while
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01:29 <@preaction> perlbot math (28000 / 20 * 2) / 60 / 24
01:29 < perlbot> 1.94444444444444
02:48 < CIA-48> WebGUI: chrisn * r5242 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm: 
02:48 < CIA-48> WebGUI: Add a check in update() for whether isExportable exists, preventing problems
02:48 < CIA-48> WebGUI: with users upgrading from previous versions of WebGUI. Tested in an upgrade
02:48 < CIA-48> WebGUI: from 7.4.0 -> SVN head (i.e., 7.5.0).
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03:33 < CIA-48> WebGUI: chrisn * r5243 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.4.18-7.5.0.pl: Add a missing \t in the output of addIsExportable.
04:33 < CIA-48> WebGUI: colin * r5244 /WebGUI/t/lib/WebGUI/Test.pm: 
04:33 < CIA-48> WebGUI: Keep the session tracking, but hide it behind an environment
04:33 < CIA-48> WebGUI: variable to keep the line noise down. Also, add user and
04:33 < CIA-48> WebGUI: group tracking.
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06:18 < CIA-48> WebGUI: colin * r5245 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Asset.t: 
06:18 < CIA-48> WebGUI: Add a stub test for newByDynamicUrl, that really should
06:18 < CIA-48> WebGUI: have been a stub test for update.
06:18 < CIA-48> WebGUI: Add tests for getNotFound, testing what is returned for both
06:18 < CIA-48> WebGUI: a page and a Snippet.
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06:19 <+perlDreamer> preaction: are you awake and willing to answer inane testing related questions?
06:19 <@preaction> that depends, are you inane enough to handle the answer?
06:19 <+perlDreamer> maybe
06:23 <@preaction> then fire away
06:23 <+perlDreamer> I'm having no luck trying to use Test::Builder to TODO-ify tests in Test::Maker
06:23  * nuba wonders if hes inane enough to watch the exchange..
06:24 <+perlDreamer> So I'm wondering why it isn't working
06:24 <+perlDreamer> the only thing I can think of is that it's OO instead of procedural
06:24  * diakopter lurks
06:25 < nuba> diakopter: want some popcorn?
06:25 <@preaction> so because Test::More doesn't see that it's currently inside of a named TODO: block at some nesting depth, it doesn't truly label them as TODO?
06:25 < diakopter> nuba: i have plenty, thank you
06:25 <+perlDreamer> Right
06:25 <+perlDreamer> Maybe I should commit the code
06:26 <+perlDreamer> It's harmless (useless)
06:26 <+perlDreamer> so you can look
06:27 <@preaction> k
06:27 <+perlDreamer> it's in
06:27 <+perlDreamer> the code is straight out of the Test::Builder::Module docs
06:29 <@preaction> perhaps todo_skip would be better? does that work?
06:29 <+perlDreamer> yes and no
06:29 <+perlDreamer> skip will make the tests not run
06:29 <+perlDreamer> I want these tests to run
06:32 <+perlDreamer> I wonder
06:32 <+perlDreamer> since nothing is exported, import is never called
06:32 <@preaction> look at Test::Builder and look for <level> and tell me if that's what we're looking for
06:33 <+perlDreamer> I did.  The Builder docs are bad
06:33 <+perlDreamer> That's why I chose Builder::Module
06:33 <+perlDreamer> but maybe the whole premise is wrong
06:33 < CIA-48> WebGUI: colin * r5246 /WebGUI/t/lib/WebGUI/Test/ (Maker.pm Maker/Permission.pm): add prototype Test code to allow Test::Maker modules to handle TODO
06:33 <+perlDreamer> and I should include that stuff in new
06:35 <+perlDreamer> I'll try retrofitting to tht
06:35 <+perlDreamer> that
06:35 <@preaction> uhm, is there two package statements in WebGUI::Test::Maker now?
06:36 <+perlDreamer> No.  Why do you ask?
06:36 <@preaction> it looks like the entire module got duplicated and pasted into itself
06:36 <@preaction> weird
06:37 <@preaction> i think it might've been there for a while
06:37 <@preaction> it should only be 192 lines, not 384
06:38 <@preaction> same thing with Test::Maker::Permission
06:38 <+perlDreamer> the svn repo looks okay
06:38 <+perlDreamer> my local copy looks okay
06:38 <+perlDreamer> for Test::Maker
06:38 <+perlDreamer> I'll check Permission next
06:38 <+perlDreamer> It looks okay, too.
06:39 <@preaction> ha, i think it's because i'm looking at a different codebase :p
06:39 <@preaction> yeah :p
06:39 <+perlDreamer> phew
06:40 <@preaction> is there a test i can use to play with? I'm going to start messing around with Test::Builder and/or Test::More to see why it's happening
06:40 <+perlDreamer> Asset/Asset.t
06:41 <+perlDreamer> see the commented out code for canAddMaker2
06:41 <@preaction> k
06:41 <+perlDreamer> that's also what I'm using, so it should be easy to duplicate results
06:41 <@preaction> so i uncomment the code and try that?
06:41 <+perlDreamer> yes
06:41 <+perlDreamer> and also the TODO code down below that calls the run method
06:42 <@preaction> k
06:44 <+perlDreamer> level looks right.  It should kick things up 1 level
06:44 <@preaction> so 92 and 93 are failing, when in fact they should be TODOing
06:44 <+perlDreamer> right, they should fail AND be TODO'ed
06:45 <@preaction> right, but it's not one level, they've decended a level because they're being called inside the Test::Maker
06:45 <@preaction> though i really don't quite understand it
06:46 <@preaction> ok() is called in Test::Builder, up one level would be the TODO: block, up one more would be main::, in a normal situation
06:47 <@preaction> so if ok in Test::Builder is instead called in Test::Maker, which is called in a TODO: block, which is called from main, it would need to go up one more, no?
06:47 <+perlDreamer> yes
06:47 <+perlDreamer> so adding 1 to Test::Builder::Level, localized?
06:47 <@preaction> lets try
06:48 <@preaction> omg it works
06:48 <+perlDreamer> using Builder::Module?
06:50 <@preaction> adding 'local $Test::Builder::Level = $Test::Builder::Level+1;' as line 189 (or somewhere at the top of the run() sub)
06:50 <@preaction> i think it's using Builder::Module, it's using runUsers()
06:51 <+perlDreamer> You're a genius
06:51 <+perlDreamer> You know what happens now right?
06:51 <+perlDreamer> I have to bow to you.
06:51 <@preaction> but then, wouldn't that runUsers introduce another level of depth?
06:51 <@preaction> so why does it work?
06:52 <+perlDreamer> maybe it's caller depth, not stack depth
06:52 <+perlDreamer> we're two packages deep, regardless of how many subroutines are called
06:53 <@preaction> that sounds weird. Test::Builder uses caller() to try to find it, isn't that the stack depth?
06:53 <+perlDreamer> I'm not sure.
06:53 <@preaction> meh, i expect it'll be an exercise for a later day, after we find another way to break things ;)
06:54  * perlDreamer bows
06:54 <+perlDreamer> Thanks for collaborating, preaction
06:55 <@preaction> np, interesting problems are always fun, i don't come across nearly enough in my daily work ;)
06:55 <+perlDreamer> any luck with the email bomb?
06:55 <@preaction> new ways on how to manage site-wide collateral data and reporting are so boring i'm making some superclasses that will cut my work by at least 70%
06:56 <@preaction> yes and no, the e-mails have stopped increasing, but there's nothing i can do to keep things going faster really
06:56 <@preaction> it only came to our attention because of some problems with version tags, perpetual.
06:56 <+perlDreamer> yeah, I found another good buglet today
06:56 <+perlDreamer> but it's not really fixable
06:56 <+perlDreamer> If you instanciate an object inside a version tag, then commit the object
06:56 <@preaction> i've put enough logging info it's pouring out of my eyeballs and i can't find the exact piece of code causing a workflow activity to be created and the version tag and all assets gets destroyed, but the activity remains
06:57 <+perlDreamer> weird
06:57 <@preaction> the bug graham fixed last week might cause it, so i'll be putting that patch in
06:57 <+perlDreamer> yeah, it mucks things up if you purge a parent before a child now
06:57 <@preaction> they're getting upgraded to the first 7.5.0 beta as soon as it gets released, so there's that blessing (right now they're running a patched 7.4.13)
06:58 <@preaction> i think there might also be a problem with trying to create a child while the parent is still in a pending state, but i could've swore i tried that one already
06:58 <+perlDreamer> is it a collab system?
06:59 <+perlDreamer> if so, there's definitely a problem
06:59 <@preaction> custom application allowing users to post photos, stores those photos in a folder
06:59 <@preaction> seems that most of the problems happen when the folder is created
06:59 <+perlDreamer> if a child ever has to get getParent, it will puke
06:59 <+perlDreamer> getParent can't find uncommitted parents
06:59 <@preaction> that... doesn't sound good
07:00 <+perlDreamer> it's exactly what we found in the Gallery/Album tests
07:00 <@preaction> getParent should, imho, always get the parent. if there's no committed parent it should get the uncommitted one
07:01 <@preaction> but then, how could there be a committed child ... because i don't test for that before allowing children to be added to Gallery
07:01 <+perlDreamer> so long as you don't access a method that calls getParent, you can do anything you like
07:02 <+perlDreamer> I think all the containers should override and extend addChild to make sure of it
07:02 <+perlDreamer> right now it's checked in the interface, but not the API
07:03 < nuba> hey guys, quick question: on the maps asset im generating some javascript which I'd think would be better if using a template instead of mixing perl code and many chunks of HEREDOCs or string concats..
07:04 <+perlDreamer> templating tends to be slow
07:04 <+perlDreamer> how about sprintf?
07:04 < nuba> the thing is, if I create a template, chances are the users could delete it and break the asset
07:05 <@preaction> that's the chance you take with all assets
07:06 <@preaction> Time Tracker, Project Manager, huge parts have javascript that unless copied perfectly will break
07:06 <@preaction> i would suggest a snippet though, or if it's absolutely necessary for all asset functionality, a script in the Extras folder
07:06 <+perlDreamer> but I think it's variable, that's why he wants to template it
07:07 <@preaction> you could either include it yourself using session->http->setScript or have the template do it
07:07 <@preaction> oh
07:07 <@preaction> no way to make it an Object of some kind?
07:07 <+perlDreamer> nuba: for stuff like that I use sprintf with a heredoc.  It's the lightest weight template available in pure, core perl.
07:08 < nuba> i wanted to throw it in the headBlock of the template, just to figure out that headBlock isnt processed, just included as is in the head.
07:08 <@preaction> i would offer up the Event www_edit method as an example of how that can go horribly horribly wrong
07:09 <@preaction> put it on top of the markup in the Template area, or make it an object of some kind that you instanciate in the template part
07:09 < nuba> personally, i'm inclined to embed a template in a $javascript_template scalar, and process it
07:10 < nuba> possibly with TT instead of HTML::Template if it starts to get more complicated. would that be ok?
07:10 < nuba> or thats not the webgui way?
07:10 <@preaction> no way to just write out some JSON? 
07:10 <+perlDreamer> preaction: I see what you mean.  But you're still using quoting and string concat vs a HEREDOC/sprintf
07:11 < nuba> well if I write JSON then i'll move the complexity to javascript. 
07:11 <+perlDreamer> nuba: there's no "good" way to do it.  It's either slow or ugly.
07:11 < nuba> i'd rather keep it in perl
07:12 < nuba> by complexity i mean the decisions of what javascript to run
07:12 < nuba> i'd rather decide at the perl code what javascript to create
07:13 <@preaction> not sure on the policy of TT v. HTML::Template. I hear rumors of moving to TT exclusively using an updated WebGUI::Asset::Template
07:13 <@preaction> but i don't know what'll happen to them
07:13 <@preaction> i expect HTML::Template will remain the defacto standard for now
07:13 < nuba> i think i'll stick with heredocs for now
07:13 < nuba> but thanks guys for the input
07:16 <+perlDreamer> I heard rizen talk about the templating, too, preaction.  There's a HTML::Template dialect in TT now.
07:16 <@preaction> perlDreamer, imma commit this, the test is commenting up
07:16 <@preaction> yeah, that's what he was talking about i think
07:16 <+perlDreamer> already committed
07:16 <@preaction> oh k
07:18 < CIA-48> WebGUI: colin * r5247 /WebGUI/t/lib/WebGUI/Test/ (Maker.pm Maker/Permission.pm): make Maker/Permission.pm handle TODO tests
07:18 < CIA-48> WebGUI: colin * r5248 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Asset.t: convert the commented out code into TODOs
07:20 < nuba> looks like $session->style->setRawHeadTags is my new friend..
07:23 <+perlDreamer> it's good stuff
07:23 <+perlDreamer> it even has a test suite
07:33 < CIA-48> WebGUI: doug * r5249 /WebGUI/t/lib/WebGUI/Test/ (Maker.pm Maker/HTML.pm Maker/Permission.pm): fixed Test::Maker::HTML Level. added some comments for future generations
07:48 < CIA-48> WebGUI: colin * r5250 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Asset.t: refine the one newByDynamicClass test
07:51 <+perlDreamer> now if only I could get the related bug fixed with addAssetPrivilege, we could resolve the test and unTODO it
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19:56 < diakopter> JT: you around?
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22:18 < CIA-20> WebGUI: colin * r5251 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Gallery/Utility.pm: remove whitespace interfering with POD formatting
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08:01 <+Radix-wrk> anyone about?
08:03 <+Radix-wrk> I've got an old 6.8.10 webgui setup - can I download the latest wre and upgrade it using that to the latest?
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10:24 < AMH_bob> Hallo Diego,
10:24 < AMH_bob> Heb je een link naar de opzet gemaakt voor de product catalogue?
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10:37 < BartJol> does anyone knows what version of WebGUI is currently on the translation site? we plan to try to keep the Dutch translation up to date, but I can't find the version. Is it always the one most recent?
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12:20 < xdanger> shouldn't the read_limit be a little higher by default than 64Mb?
12:20 < xdanger> http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/server-wont-upload-big-files
12:23 < BartJol> maybe someyhing to do with users that randomly uploading files
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15:55 < SDuensin> Greetings.
16:47 < BartJol> Same question as this morning (at least morning for me), is the WebGUI version on the translation server always the latest version?
17:05 < nuba> BartJol: i believe whoever is working on any translation for webgui, is using the translation server
17:06 < BartJol> well, no\
17:06 < nuba> since most people would prefer a web based interface than editing the source files, i guess
17:06 < BartJol> Arjan is working on a local machine
17:06 < BartJol> and I'm not sure whether he commited the translation
17:06 < nuba> the translation server also has the convenience of automatically keeping track of new strings as they're added to the releases
17:07 < BartJol> I know
17:07 < nuba> well in the early days you had to mail JT the translation to be imported there
17:07 < BartJol> I remember from my first translation a couple of years ago
17:08 < BartJol> but, is the server always running the latest (stable) version?
17:10 < nuba> dunno
17:11 < BartJol> but probably we will be using the PB translation server in the future
17:11 < nuba> oh sorry i just  read you question again, i got it wrong
17:11 < nuba> i thought you asked if the translations at the translation server were always the latest ones
17:11 < nuba> you were asking about the webgui version tho
17:11 < nuba> my bad
17:11 < BartJol> no sweat, thanks
17:11 < BartJol> is the script I send you working?
17:12 < nuba> i didnt use it yet, im hacking other pressing things atm
17:12 < nuba> but i'll have use for it, thanks for sending :)
17:13 < nuba> just not while this deadlines are breathing in my neck :/
17:13 < BartJol> :)
17:13 < BartJol> off course
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19:41 < wgGuest26> hello
19:41 < wgGuest26> i have a small problem at installation
19:41 < wgGuest26> ca someone please helpme ?
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19:43 < wgGuest82> hello
19:44 < wgGuest82> someone can help me with a problem at installation please?
19:50 < nuba> whats going wrong?
20:13 < wgGuest82> hello nuba
20:14 < wgGuest82> when i am runnig wreconsole.pl i am getting this message
20:14 < wgGuest82> [root@localhost sbin]# /usr/bin/perl wreconsole.pl
20:15 < wgGuest82> 'jsonToObj' will be obsoleted. Please use 'from_json' instead. at /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.8/Config/JSON.pm line 134
20:15 < wgGuest82> 'jsonToObj' will be obsoleted. Please use 'from_json' instead. at wreconsole.pl line 1024
20:15 < wgGuest82> malformed JSON string, neither array, object, number, string or atom, at character offset 0 ["(end of string)"] at 
20:31 <@preaction> why are you using your system's perl when you should be using the WRE's perl?
20:35 < wgGuest82> i did not knew
20:36 <@preaction> best to do this: . /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment.sh <- note the space between the . and the /
20:37 <@preaction> then just "perl wreconsole.pl" or even just "wreconsole.pl"
20:37 <@preaction> the JSON that ships with the WRE should wokr
20:37 < wgGuest82> one moment
20:37 < wgGuest82> i try this now
20:38 <@preaction> but, if you could open up a new terminal, do a perldoc -l JSON, and let me know what the $VERSION is, I would appreciate it
20:38 <@preaction> if they're going to deprecate something, we're going to need to prepare for it
20:40 < wgGuest82> ok
20:40 < wgGuest82> 1 sec please
20:42 < wgGuest82> the version of perl is 5.8.8 and version of webgui si 0.8.1
20:44 <@preaction> i mean what version of the JSON module you were using that gave you that error
20:45 <@preaction> also, just to make sure, you're using the WRE 0.8.1, which probably downloaded WebGUI 7.4.18
20:47 < wgGuest82> yes i am using wre 0.8.1
20:48 < wgGuest82> in the JSON.pm i found a variabile that states version=2.04
20:48 < wgGuest82> i dont have much experience with perl modules
20:50 < wgGuest82> perldoc -l JSON echo the path /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.8/JSON.pm
20:50 < wgGuest82> perldoc -l JSON echo the path /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/JSON.pm
21:02 <@preaction> now open up that file and look for $VERSION
21:04 < wgGuest82> i found $JSON::VERSION='2.04'
21:04 <@preaction> that works, thanks
21:04 < wgGuest82> $XS_VERSION='2.01'
21:05 < wgGuest82> ok
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21:51 < perlDreamer> to answer BartJol's question from this morning, I believe the translation server runs off of SVN HEAD, not the latest stable version.
21:56 < wgGuest82> perldreamer can you help me with some problems at installation please
21:56 < wgGuest82> ?
21:56 < perlDreamer> what kind of problems are you having, wgGuest82?
21:58 < wgGuest82> one moment please
21:59 < wgGuest82> 'jsonToObj' will be obsoleted. Please use 'from_json' instead. at /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.8/Config/JSON.pm line 134
22:00 < wgGuest82> this is the error i getting
22:00 < perlDreamer> Are you using the WRE?
22:00 < wgGuest82> JSON is version 2.04
22:00 < wgGuest82> perl is 5.8.8
22:00 < wgGuest82> i am running red hat with wre 0.8.1
22:01 < perlDreamer> the WRE supplies its own JSON and perl and apache and mysql
22:01 < perlDreamer> you must not be running it
22:01 < perlDreamer> did you run . setEnvironment from the WRE sbin directory?
22:01 < wgGuest82> i don run apache or mysql
22:01 < wgGuest82> yes
22:01 < perlDreamer> what does perl -v report?
22:02 < perlDreamer> actually, hold on a sec
22:02 < perlDreamer> how can you run WebGUI without using apache or mysql?
22:02 < wgGuest82> This is perl, v5.8.8 built for i386
22:02 < wgGuest82> etc
22:03 < wgGuest82> i am using apache
22:03 < wgGuest82> i just dont have the service started
22:04 < perlDreamer> what are you doing to produce the error message?
22:04 < wgGuest82> perl wreconsole.pl
22:04 < wgGuest82> after that localhost.localdomain:60834
22:04 < perlDreamer> and you continue to get this error message after you do the . setEnvironment ?
22:04 < wgGuest82> yes
22:05 < perlDreamer> which shell are you using?
22:05 < wgGuest82> bash
22:06 < wgGuest82> after i run setenviroment.sh i run echo $? and it returns 0
22:06 < perlDreamer> please do echo $PATH > myPath and paste it using the pastebin site in the title.  webgui.pastebin.com
22:06 < perlDreamer> then paste the URL here
22:07 < perlDreamer> it's not possible that you run the setenvironment script and still point to an operating system perl library.
22:07 < nuba> besides the jsonToObj warnings wgGuest82 is getting this too
22:07 < nuba> wgGuest82> malformed JSON string, neither array, object, number, string or atom, at character offset 0 ["(end of string)"] at
22:07 < nuba> looks like a malformed json file to me
22:07 < wgGuest82> hello nuba
22:08 < wgGuest82> you're back
22:09 < nuba> yup. im always online on irc, even if im not at the computer, i leave the client connected here
22:09 < wgGuest82> http://webgui.pastebin.com/d3e852bf5
22:09 -!- ckotil [n=newtrino@snare.grnoc.iu.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
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22:09 < nuba> just found out this week's FLOSS is about YUI
22:09 -!- Netsplit orwell.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: CIA-20
22:10 < nuba> FLOSS Weekly 23: The Yahoo User Interface Library
22:10 < nuba> http://twit.tv/floss23
22:10 < perlDreamer> wgGuest82: your path is not being set by the setEnvironment script
22:11 < perlDreamer> so it's still pointing to the system perl, not the WRE one
22:11 -!- Netsplit over, joins: CIA-20
22:11 < perlDreamer> and hence your JSON warning about obsolence
22:11 < wgGuest82> you are right
22:11 < wgGuest82> how do i corect this
22:11 < perlDreamer> I _think_ the setenvironment script is in /data/wre/sbin
22:12 < perlDreamer> head over there and see if I'm right
22:12 < perlDreamer> I don't use the WRE myself
22:12 < wgGuest82> yes it is there
22:12 < wgGuest82> and from there i run it
22:13 < nuba> you run it with . /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment
22:13 < perlDreamer> . <space> setenvironment ?
22:13 < nuba> its a dot, a space, then 
22:13 < nuba> /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment
22:13 < perlDreamer> yeah, what nuba said
22:13 < wgGuest82> yes
22:13 < wgGuest82> i try again now
22:14 < nuba> it would be nice havin setenvironment setting a $WRE variable
22:14 < nuba> so you could just ask people to paste here the output of echo $WRE
22:16 < nuba> or maybe echo $SHELL $WRE
22:16 < perlDreamer> I like it.  Make it an RFE and I'll see if I can implement it.
22:16 < wgGuest82> guys thanks for the help
22:17 < wgGuest82> it is working now
22:17 < nuba> cool
22:17 < wgGuest82> i probably messed up something
22:17 < perlDreamer> I'm guessing your earlier problem was not specifying the whole path to setenvironment
22:17 < perlDreamer> but in any case, I'm glad it's working for you now
22:17 < wgGuest82> i run wreconsole.pl with the perl from wre
22:17 < wgGuest82> thks for you help and patience
22:18 < wgGuest82> have a good night
22:18 < wgGuest82> :d
22:18 < nuba> you too
22:18 < nuba> oh also
22:18 < nuba> you can change your nick with /nick mynewnick
22:18 < nuba> so you can hang out here with a proper nick instead of wgGuestxx if you want
22:19 -!- wgGuest82 is now known as Bodanel
22:19 < Bodanel> ok
22:20 < nuba> there you go
22:20 < Bodanel> i dont use irc channels so much
22:20 <@apeiron> Although if you're gonna do that, you may as well get a proper IRC client. :) irc.freenode.net, #webgui
22:20 < nuba> next time a Bodanel joins here we may remember its you :)
22:20 < Bodanel> il do that
22:20 < Bodanel> ok
22:21 < Bodanel> you will see me again
22:21 < Bodanel> now i am experimenting webgui
22:21 < Bodanel> bye everybody
22:21 < perlDreamer> later
22:21 < nuba> have fun
22:21 <@apeiron> Ciao, have fun.
22:37 -!- Bodanel [n=wgGuest8@86.121.144.173] has quit []
23:10 < perlDreamer> He was very persistent.  That's a  good trait in new users
23:10 <@preaction> as long as he learns / listens
23:11 < perlDreamer> "indeed"
23:19 < nuba> yeah
23:20 < nuba> he seemed thankful, and looking forward to come back as he goes experimenting
23:20 < nuba> it would be good if experimenters of today turned channel regulars of tomorrow :)
23:25 <@preaction> i'm starting to think there needs to be a measure of critical installed mass to start upping the population here
23:27 < nuba> worried it could turn all of us into 1st level of customer support ? :)
23:27 < nuba> that can be scary :/
23:29 <@preaction> not really, we kinda are
23:30 <@preaction> for my purpose, in order to keep on top of what's going on in the WebGUI community, i read every board and post when it's appropriate
23:31 <@preaction> usually when i notice something that could be wrong with WebGUI, such as the new JSON API that's going to cause problems unless we switch
23:50 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@153.sub-75-206-47.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
--- Day changed Tue Jan 08 2008
00:32 < Radix__> woohoo.. my source build of the wre completed
00:34 < Radix__> didn't think that was ever going to happen to be honest :)
00:41 <@preaction> :p oh ye of little faith
00:46 < Radix__> it kept on failing at GSSAPI
00:47 < Radix__> it'd try and install Authen::SASL, which had a required module gssapi and it would always fail to install
00:47 < Radix__> I found the right things to apt-get to get it working in the end
00:48 <@preaction> what version of debian/ubuntu?
00:48 < Radix__> still wouldn't build tho.. so ended up doing a full clean and rebuild and went to bed
00:48 < Radix__> debian 4, etch
00:48 <@preaction> might want to post a build log to the dev list with the difficulties you went through
00:48 < CIA-20> WebGUI: doug * r5252 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Added userDefined fields to GalleryAlbum assets. Modified Gallery::Utility to migrate userDefined fields from Threads to GalleryAlbums. Added tests for the previous.
00:48 < Radix__> the prebuilt one didn't work.. wanted a specific version of glibc
00:49 < Radix__> would it be worth packaging this one up as a binary for debian 4?
00:49 < perlDreamer> preaction: could you please add asset committing to the Gallery Utility test while your'e working on it?
00:50 <@preaction> is that why the purgeRevision is failing?
00:50 < perlDreamer> yes
00:50 <@preaction> better question: is that a bug in purgeRevision?
00:50 < perlDreamer> perhaps, but why get the working tag if you're not going to commit it?
00:51 <@preaction> to isolate my changes and be able to roll them all back at the end
00:51 < perlDreamer> that won't isolate your changes since each addChild will get the current working tag anyway
00:52 <@preaction> it also creates the working tag so that i have it to be able to roll it back without having to go look for it
00:52 < perlDreamer> I didn't know that uncommitted tags could be rolled back
00:53 < perlDreamer> I'll have to study the versioning code some more
00:54 <@preaction> all a rollback does is purge all the assets in the version tag
00:54 <@preaction> rather, all the revisions
00:54 <@preaction> revisions can be pending and still be purged
00:55 < perlDreamer> I see
00:55 < perlDreamer> but then you're still stuck with getParent always failing
00:56 <@preaction> is getParent versioning-aware? that might be a bug too
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01:47 < perlDreamer> preaction: my biggest frustration is always trying to figure out what is a bug in code, vs poorly written code.
01:47 < perlDreamer> In other words, who is wrong?
01:48 < perlDreamer> Only rizen can answer that question
01:48 < perlDreamer> since he wrote it
01:49 <@preaction> i tend to think about what I would want, i would want versioning to be a completely-working method to change as much as I want without pushing them to the live version until i'm satisfied
01:49 <@preaction> no matter if i'm using code or actually editing it myself
01:49 <@preaction> so to say, the "spirit" of the code, not the letter ;)
01:50 < perlDreamer> If rizen's cool with changing that, I'm perfectly cool with it too.  I just like passing test suites
01:50 <@preaction> i'm more a fan of failing test suites, it exposes bugs ;)
01:50 <@preaction> correct tests that fail ;)
01:51 < perlDreamer> well, if y'all have a weekly kind of meeting, maybe you could bring it up and talk it through
01:51 < perlDreamer> if the API can change or be altered/fixed, then it should be done
01:55 <@preaction> not sure if those are API issues really, some parts of the Asset class just aren't very aware of versioning, and we're running into them a lot
01:55 <@preaction> i can write something to the dev list about it
01:58 <@preaction> ... and after an hour of migrating content, i begin to worry that the script is just spinning its gears...
01:59 -!- elnino [n=ninow@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #webgui
02:01 < elnino> hi.  The help file system is very powerful with the i18n support and all, but my macros are really only useful to us. Is there a way I can write help files within WebGUI, without having to create a corresponding i18n file as well?
02:01 < perlDreamer> no
02:01 < perlDreamer> although the macro help has been pulled out of the core and put into the wiki instead
02:01 < perlDreamer> you could take a similar approach
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02:03 < elnino> so, my custom macros will no longer list automatically in the webgui help?
02:06 < perlDreamer> it's been a while since i've worked in that system
02:06 < perlDreamer> I think they'll list
02:06 < perlDreamer> I don't think they link anymroe
02:08 < perlDreamer> that's as of 7.4, btw
02:08 < elnino> That's too bad, It was certainly convienent to see al the "help" in one place.  But Good to know before I spend all my time writing .pm help files.  Is there 
02:08 < elnino> I'll look at the 7.4 readme/history to see if I can figure it out...
02:08 < elnino> Thanks!
02:13 <@preaction> i'm thinking about re-writing the Settings tab in order to (a) accomodate as much stuff from the .conf file as possible and (b) since there'll be a whole slew of new stuff, adding some search capabilities to make setting things easier
02:13 <@preaction> yea or ney? it's a longer-term project, since the Report asset is first
02:14 <@preaction> something like CompizConfig Settings Manager, with the tabs on the side and a searchbar thingy
02:16 < nuba> two thumbs here for moving things from .conf to Setting!
02:16 < nuba> thumbs up, that is
02:17 <@preaction> in order to start up, though, the DSN, database user, and database password must remain in the config file, but those are unlikely to ever need changing, whereas installing assets requires changing config
02:18 < elnino> The only thing the change log says is that they removed the Table of Contents - which is where the macros help files were linked into. I suspect that there are people out there that have put in a lot of time customizing help, I'm surprised that this was removed? Was this a reqeust?
02:18 <@preaction> it's a performance issue, i18n is loaded into memory, being Perl data structures
02:18 <@preaction> without the i18n for the Help files, we cut something like 12M resident
02:19 <@preaction> iirc. the IRC logs have the true answer
02:19 < elnino> Hmm. That makes sense> I guess I would have had it as an install option. But I'm glad I found out before writing a bunch of help files.
02:20 < elnino> re config: less config files more settings via the application I think is much easier. Sounds good to me.
02:21 < nuba> i like config files having just as little as required to boot
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02:22 <@preaction> actually i'll have to look. i'm pretty sure preload.perl does some magic with the configured class names. that might have to change to use either Module::Pluggable or WebGUI::Pluggable
02:23 <@preaction> which could increase the resident size, since all the classes in WebGUI::Form, WebGUI::Macro, WebGUI::Asset WebGUI::Workflow::Activity will be loaded at the get-go, no matter if any site is configured to use them
02:25 < nuba> true
02:27 < perlDreamer> preaction: you might want to check the IRC archives for a discussion on that
02:27 < perlDreamer> rizen hasn't been favorable about that in the past
02:28 < perlDreamer> something about the config being loaded on startup, where as settings are hit on every request
02:28 <@preaction> humph... sounds like a challenge to me ;)
02:28 <@preaction> but yes, that would be bad
02:29 < perlDreamer> you know where the online archives are...
02:29 < nuba> are the irclogs archived somewhere?
02:29 < perlDreamer> yes
02:29 < perlDreamer> jukka does it for us
02:29 < perlDreamer> http://mentalhouse.net/irc/logs/webgui/
02:30 < nuba> cool. i've got irssi on auto-logging, but of course that works only when im here :)
02:32 <@preaction> i'll write something to download them and index them later :p
02:35 <@preaction> would it be prudent to make an Asset/api.t test that can be copy/pasted to make sure that all assets conform to the same API? perhaps an additional one for Wobjects?
02:35 <@preaction> god.. give me a week off and just see what explodes out of my head :P
02:36 < perlDreamer> preaction: I think the real answer is Test::Class
02:36 < perlDreamer> copy and paste is bad
02:36 < perlDreamer> very bad
02:36 < nuba> preaction: wget -r to download, grep to search :)
02:36 <@preaction> ooh
02:36 <@preaction> nuba, thanks
02:37 <@preaction> perlDreamer, will investigate before i start writing this api test for my new Report interface
02:37 < nuba> grep -i to make it case insensitive, and -C 10 to give you 10 lines beore and after each grep hit
02:37 < perlDreamer> I'd love to see the Gallery tests refactored to reuse code, rather than copy and paste
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02:38 < Khaytsus> I updated my WebGUI from 7.3.18 to 7.3.22, no problem.  Updated 7.3.22 to 7.4.19 and now when I restart httpd I get this:
02:38 < Khaytsus> Error loading WebGUI::Asset::Template::TemplateToolkit! - Can't locate Template.pm
02:38 < Khaytsus> Didn't have any upgrade errors...  And I'm not finding anything on this error.  Any suggestions?  The website sorta shows, but doesn't load much beyond the main page content.
02:39 <@preaction> Khaytsus, is Template installed?
02:39 < perlDreamer> It's probably coming through the config file, with TT as a plug-in
02:39 < Khaytsus> Is it separate?  I'm really not sure
02:39 < Khaytsus> Let me look at config
02:39 <@preaction> Template is perl's Template Toolkit
02:40 <@preaction> TT or TT2
02:40 < Khaytsus> Hmm, let me check that
02:40 < Khaytsus> Template::Toolkit ?
02:40 <@preaction> perlDreamer, i like Test::Class. I like it a lot. it could compartmentalize our tests immensely (each test sub could create its own version tag and rollback after its done)
02:41 <@preaction> Khaytsus, no. it's just Template
02:41 < perlDreamer> yes
02:41 <@preaction> Template.pm
02:41 < perlDreamer> but think of the rewrite
02:41  * perlDreamer shudders
02:41 <@preaction> perlDreamer, admittedly, but if we can use it going forward
02:42 < perlDreamer> I agree, but I won't have time myself to work on it until after the testing book chapter is written
02:42 < perlDreamer> it would need a branch
02:42 < perlDreamer> 'cause we won't make 7.5 either
02:42 <@preaction> and it's an ugly rewrite, but it doesn't have to be a rewrite really, they can co-exist until the Test::Class heirarchy covers enough
02:42 < Khaytsus> preaction: Okay I'm a moron, I'm not sure where to find that then..  cpan I'm coming up with a bunch of template related stuff, but.
02:42 <@preaction> Khaytsus, try cpan Bundle-Template perhaps?
02:42 <@preaction> durno though
02:43 <@preaction> you don't need to install it
02:43 <@preaction> unless you actually use it
02:43  * perlDreamer heads home
02:43 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat039.mxim.com] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]
02:43 < Khaytsus> Okay, let me peep in the config now
02:43 < Khaytsus> Aha, I found their website
02:43 < Khaytsus> duh, just "install Template"
02:43 <@preaction> you can just remove the WebGUI::Asset::Template::TemplateToolkit from your Template Plugins section
02:46  * Khaytsus hugs preaction 
02:46 < Khaytsus> Nothing in the config, but installing TT2 did it :D
02:48 < Khaytsus> Thank you!
02:48 < Khaytsus> Do you happen to know one other question?  I had some collaboration systems set to 1 year archive, didn't really mean to..  Is there an *easy* way to find the articles, assuming I can't just search for them?  Ie:  I want to unarchive all of them.  I've searched Assets all over, they stashed anywhere together?
02:50 <@preaction> they're all in the database. they're in the same place, really, just have a different state
02:50 <@preaction> search the wiki for "magic numbers"
02:50 <@preaction> sorry, it's "status"
02:52 < Khaytsus> I saw a reference to that, let me read it closer
02:55 < Khaytsus> So the most direct method is sql queries for status=archived ?
02:55 <@preaction> yeah
02:55 <@preaction> otherwise, though i don't know what other consequences this might have, just update assetData set status=approved where status=archived
02:56 <@preaction> if i'm not mistaken, the only thing that uses the archived status is the collab system
02:56 < Khaytsus> k
03:01 <@preaction> standard disclaimers apply
03:04 < Khaytsus> yep, I'm umm..  attempting a select first..  sql is not a strength :)
03:04 < Khaytsus> aha, got it
03:05 < Khaytsus> select title from assetData where status like 'archived';
03:05 < Khaytsus> Looks safe
03:07 < Khaytsus> hmm, I see dups..  I wonder if it archives old versions
03:08 <@preaction> probably. not sure if the archive system is version-aware
03:09 < Khaytsus> I'm reading the entries to see
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03:13 < Khaytsus> aha yeah I can do selective updates with a title,revisionDate query
03:34 < Khaytsus> Yep, that worked.  I had to edit something else so it would let me commmit, then the 'fixed' threads are showing :)
03:37 <@preaction> oh, since you did a raw DB edit, clear the cache by rm -rf /tmp/WebGUICache
03:38 < Khaytsus> restart httpd and/or spectre?
03:40 < Khaytsus> Hmm, why can't I find the "help" level..  It's extremely wordy right now in settings etc
03:40 < metanil> hello everyone
03:40 < metanil> what should i do if want to aggregate some articles and show it in new article page? .. is there any assets/tool available?
03:48 <@preaction> like from an RSS feed?
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03:51 < metanil> yes
03:53 < metanil> actually i want to show them in my dashboard(asset).
03:54 <@preaction> i think you'd need to make a Syndicated Content asset, and then you can make that available to the dashboard
03:54 <@preaction> but i'm not an expert on the dashboard at all
03:54 <@preaction> if there's not one already, it would be a good idea to write a tutorial on the WebGUI wiki on adding content widgets to the dashboard.
03:55 <+Radix-wrk> yay.. I got my new WRE/WebGUI install working :)
03:55 <@preaction> woot!
03:56 <@preaction> is it just me, or is this channel been unusually active since the new year?
03:56 <+Radix-wrk> now to recreate the content I had before (couldn't be bothered upgrading as only had a few pages and it was still using 6.8.10)
04:05 < metanil> So currently we don't have syndicated content asset.. right?
04:06 <@preaction> metanil, what do you mean? There's a Syndicated Content asset
04:06 <@preaction> not sure if it's allowed in dashboards
04:07 <+Radix-wrk> yeah, you can use it in dashboards
04:07 <+Radix-wrk> I use it at work to get the weather info on our intranet dashboard
04:07 <@preaction> dashboard is a crazy-powerful piece of worksmanship that needs to start coming into its own. i wonder how many people actually use it
04:08 <@preaction> sounds like a good poll for WebGUI.org
04:10 <+Radix-wrk> I didn't really get a feel for how to use the dashboard until I went to the WUC and someone mentioned it
04:11 <+Radix-wrk> it's an unusual, but very cool asset
04:11 < metanil> oops.. it was only available after logging using admin user
04:12 <@preaction> that's probably a ui level issue
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04:27 < metanil> i think the URL to RSS should be pointed to something which return RSS .. right?
04:27 <@preaction> hover over the label for "URL to RSS", it should pop-up a little help box
04:28 < metanil> yes.. i did it. and rss site will return like charm.
04:28 < metanil> but nothing showed up if pointed to some articles. 
04:28 < metanil> i mean articles(assets) of webgui
04:31 <@preaction> so it's not an RSS feed at all
04:31 <@preaction> you might be able to make a shortcut to the page, or make shortcuts to those assets, or something of that nature
04:31 < metanil> like link?
04:32 <@preaction> no, Shortcut
04:32 <@preaction> a Shortcut asset
04:32 < metanil> hmmm
04:32 <@preaction> a Redirect asset is more like a link. a Shortcut allows you to do fun things
04:32 <@preaction> like override templates, content, title, url, groups, etc...
04:33 < metanil> but i don't see any assets that called something "shortcut"..
04:33 < metanil> BTW, i'm quite new to webgui 
04:34 <@preaction> i know. you might be interested in buying some of the books that plainblack offers, as this place is not really to be used for people learning how to do things in WebGUI
04:34 <@preaction> ah, you have to click on the More link in the asset manager to get Create Shortcut
04:35 <@preaction> then you can move that shortcut where you want it
04:36 <@preaction> it's not going to be an aggragate, unless you shortcut the page (then it'll get the page, which gets all the articles on the page)
04:36 <@preaction> consequently, you might prefer to use a Collaboration System just so you can get the RSS feed it produces
04:36 <@preaction> (instead of Articles)
04:40 < metanil> hmmm..
04:40 < metanil> i'm looking at shortcut.. 
04:40 < metanil> its cool!
04:42 <@preaction> it's crazy. there are some seriously awesome things you can do with them
04:42 <@preaction> and they work great with dashboards
04:45 < metanil> ya.. but the i have to do aggregation manually to each articles description.
04:46 < metanil> i cannot automate it.. so i think if i change the source code for description in shortcut asset, then it will work.
04:46 -!- ascii [n=ascii@host-64-139-233-19.nctv.com] has quit ["leaving"]
04:56 < metanil> btw, when i log out and then log in why it tries remain in same page (rather than home page)?
04:58 <@preaction> because that's how it works. it's more convenient imho
04:58 <@preaction> you can change that, but i forget how
04:58 <@preaction> something like returnUrl or proceed
04:58 <@preaction> probably returnUrl
05:08 <+Radix-wrk> Hmm.. if I have the wre/webgui on 80/81 - and I have another apache server running a couple of static html/php websites on port 82/83/84/85 etc.. what's the best way to add them to the wre modproxy setup without breaking any of the wre addsite functionality?
05:09 <@preaction> creating new "sitename.modproxy" with <VirtualHost> blocks?
05:09 <@preaction> shouldn't interfere with addsite
05:09 <+Radix-wrk> yeah?  okay.. that'd do it then
05:09 <@preaction> i'd advise against adding anything to httpd.modproxy.conf
05:09 <+Radix-wrk> yeah, was thinking the same
05:09 <@preaction> since i think that can be overwritten by the wreconsole.pl script
05:09 <+Radix-wrk> wasn't sure what the best way to do it was tho :)
05:10 <@preaction> dunno if wreconsole does things intelligently. i think httpd.modproxy.conf is just a processed template output now
05:11 <+Radix-wrk> cheers doug
05:11 <@preaction> though you might want to not try to make a new site using the addsite script with the same name as one of the site you're adding manually
05:12 <+Radix-wrk> yah, that'd be silly :)
05:12 <@preaction> the old wre 0.7 would cheerfully overwrite everything
05:12 <@preaction> i don't know if the new WRE 0.8 changed that
05:29 < metanil> returnUrl is macro?
05:29 <@preaction> no, it's a url parameter
05:37 < metanil> any example.. actually url parameter has to be some value.
05:37 < metanil> http://webgui.example.com/home/utilities?op=auth;method=logout;op=returnUrl;
05:37 < metanil> ?
05:38 < metanil> i searched both wiki and forum.. but couldn't get results.
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05:41 <@preaction> the url parameter is named "returnUrl", and again, i'm not sure
05:41 <@preaction> the value would be the url you want them returned to
05:44 < metanil> hmm.. i think both proceed and returnUrl is not working.. .. its showing same page.
05:45 <@preaction> not sure it's supposed to work when logging out, but i'm pretty sure it works when logging in
05:46 < metanil> hmm.. lets try then.
05:46 <@preaction> sorry, it's "redirectAfterLogin"
05:47 < metanil> o o.. 
05:47 < metanil> it should be parameter while login in  right?
05:47 < metanil> not while logging out.
05:48 <@preaction> dunno if any of it works. looks like it's a session scratch, not really a url parameter.
05:48 < metanil> oops
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08:09 < metanil> http://webgui.pastebin.com/d48841d30 is the code which makes redirection after login .. right?
08:10 <@preaction> yes. it gets the session scratch variable
08:20 < metanil> so if i don't want redirection (or redirection to only one page) we need to modify this file OR is there exists a same thing from webgui admin console.
08:21 <@preaction> you can set the appropriate scratch variable if you want
08:22 <@preaction> i'd suggest making a macro that would set the scratch variable
08:22 <@preaction> modifications to that file would need to be maintained through upgrades, which could get annoying
08:23 < metanil> hmm..
08:27 <@preaction> you could even make a simple, stupid macro called SetScratch that would take a scratch name and set the value. post it onto an RFE and i could probably get it into WebGUI core
08:28 <@preaction> or, at least, draw the developers' attention to the fact that there's no easy way to redirect after login
08:32 < metanil> hmm.. first i'll try it by myself.
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09:07 < metanil> is the webgui configuration file is /data/WebGUI/etc/WebGUI.conf.original?
09:07 <@preaction> no, that's the original one. there should be something in there like www.example.com.conf
09:07 <@preaction> with your site name
09:08 < metanil> oo
09:08 < metanil> ya
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09:42 < metanil> i did http://webgui.pastebin.com/d38e39cd but its still not working.
09:42 < metanil> i did this through macro
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09:52 < metanil> it now worked!!
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11:46 < BartJol> morning
11:47 <@preaction> morning
11:47 < BartJol> hee
11:47 < BartJol> maybe you know
11:48 <@preaction> oh i expect i might
11:48 < BartJol> do you know the policy of the version management on the translation server
11:48 < BartJol> when it is replaced
11:48 < BartJol> what version it is currently
11:49 <@preaction> it's taken out of SVN HEAD
11:49 <@preaction> from what i understand
11:49 <@preaction> maybe it's current beta / testing
11:49 <@preaction> yeah, that sounds more accurate, current beta / testing
11:49 < BartJol> ah, mmm
11:49 <@preaction> it's running on plainblack.com
11:49 < BartJol> yes
11:50 <@preaction> let me finish this ugly SQL statement and i'll check for real
11:50 < BartJol> ok
11:50 < BartJol> thanks
11:52 < BartJol> it also might be usefull to have a banner "currently we are translating WebGUI version x.x.x" you don't see the version even in the html or the exported tar
11:52 < BartJol> or maybe you can, I'm quite stupid you know
11:53 <@preaction> writing an SQL query that can extract text from HTML is not fun. but it's even worse when the HTML is not well-formed or valid...
11:53 < BartJol> is that why you are up so late?
11:54 < BartJol> or are you watching the pre-elections?
11:54 <@preaction> that's why i'm up so late
11:54 < BartJol> can imagine
11:55 <@preaction> 12 hours watching a long migration script run multiple times to fix bugs, and now a couple hours fixing bugs in a different client's SQLReports that I wrote to make RSS feeds
11:55 <@preaction> lesson learned number 1) Don't force SQLReports into doing things it can't handle
11:55 <@preaction> 2) Don't let anyone tell you "We only want this." They don't know it yet, but they want more.
11:55 < BartJol> sound familiar
11:56 < BartJol> especially #2
11:56 <@preaction> can't go back now though, the original spec was for something that wouldn't even do what this SQLReport does :(
11:59 < BartJol> but does it have to extract from html documents or from generated html?
11:59 < BartJol> not that i can help you with this... sorry
12:00 < BartJol> just moral support: those bastard customers!
12:02 <@preaction> it extracts from html that's copy/pasted into an HTMLArea, i could've swore i cleaned it up some, since there were already problems with bad markup, but apparently not enough
12:02 <@preaction> but no parser that i know of can make bad html into well-formed html
12:03 <@preaction> anyway, the i18n editor pulls from /data/WebGUI, so it's the same webgui that plainblack.com is running
12:03 <@preaction> that's where the template comes from, the files are saved outside of that and then committed to SVN
12:03 < BartJol> ah, ok, that's nice to know
12:04 < BartJol> so each upgrade of plainblack also updates the translation server
12:04 < BartJol> is there a possibilty that we can get a notification before pb.com is upgraded?
12:05 <@preaction> in essence, yes. there will be new variables to edit, if any
12:05 <@preaction> pb.com is upgraded immediately before every WebGUI release
12:05 <@preaction> so if you know when the release is, you know when pb.com is being updated
12:06 < BartJol> ah, just keep checking the forum, irc aand website
12:06 <@preaction> or use your RSS reader to subscribe to the plainblack.com newsfeed, or the webgui.org newsfeed
12:07 < BartJol> ah, that might be wise
12:07 < BartJol> thanks
12:07 <@preaction> np
12:09 < BartJol> good luck with the sql rreport
12:09 < BartJol> and don't forget to sleep
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16:51 < perlmonkey2> Were any webgui sites effected by this weekends injection attacks (I would assume no)?
16:56 < bartjol> not as far as I know, everything seems to be ok here
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19:35 < perlDreamer> rizen: the problem is that there aren't enough whackos
19:35 <@rizen> are you referring to tbb?
19:35 < perlDreamer> yup
19:36 <@rizen> well if all whackos are as good as you, i'll take 10,000 please
19:37 < perlDreamer> I'm an off-the-curve whacko
19:37 < perlDreamer> few are as whacked as me
19:37 < perlDreamer> except for you
19:39 <@rizen> every time i think about contributors i think, how do i get more colins
19:41 < perlDreamer> tuba playing church webmaster perl bigots are rare
19:43 < perlDreamer> especially chip designers who have crappy jobs with lots of spare time for daytime hackery
19:43 <@rizen> hehe
19:44 <@rizen> so true
19:44 <@rizen> maybe there are others where you work
19:44 < perlDreamer> Well, there's a python bigot across the hall
19:44 < perlDreamer> And one guy who builds cars from scratch
19:44 < perlDreamer> (not at work)
19:44 <@rizen> i could send you some t-shirts, gooeys, and wg stickers so you can start a covert webgui contributors group where you work
19:44 <@rizen> they don't have to be coders
19:45 < perlDreamer> I'll start with Tim and Peter!
19:45 <@rizen> article writers, template designers, documentation writers, etc are all welcome
19:45 <@rizen> must go get food now
19:45 -!- rizen is now known as rizenishungry
19:46 < perlDreamer> I don't know man
19:46 < perlDreamer> Eating is the number one contributor to obesity
19:47 < perlDreamer> Causes gas
19:47 < perlDreamer> Think of how your water bill would shrink if you could throw away that toilet
19:47 < perlDreamer> medical studies have shown that a lower metabolism (caused by reduced food intake) extends life
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20:10 < perlmonkey2> Yay, all I have to do is ad  a method for the drag and drop reorder of questions and the questions should be mostly done in the survey.  Then cut and paste a lot of code for the questions.  Do the survey load and survey save.  And then I'm mostly done with the survey edit part of the project.  And since the WebGUI and survey display should be more like normal CGI dev, it shoudl go fast.  Maybe by Friday this thing can be in Alpa :D
20:10 < perlDreamer> people won't ever run a test suite on a production database, right?
20:10 < perlmonkey2> /for the questions/for the answer types/
21:14  * perlDreamer goes to the gym
21:22 < nuba> perlmonkey2: eating less, working out.. jeesh!
21:22 < nuba> weirdo
21:22 < nuba> oops, that was for perlDreamer 
21:22 -!- rizenishungry is now known as rizen
21:22 < perlmonkey2> yeah, I do the opposite.
21:34 < nuba> yeah, eating out, working less, sounds much better ;)
22:27 < perlDreamer> works for me :)
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22:56 < perlDreamer> I love Test::Deep
22:57 < nuba> deep love?
22:58 < perlDreamer> deep test love
22:58 < perlDreamer> It provides a way to check that an element in a data structure is a number along with a fudge factor
22:58 < perlDreamer> so that it makes it easy to compare times
23:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI: colin * r5253 /WebGUI/ (lib/WebGUI/Session/Id.pm t/Session/Id.t): 
23:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI: Add a method that returns the regexp used to validate generated GUIDs. This should
23:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI: prevent the regexp from proliferating all through tests and code.
23:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI: Also, add a test for the method, which just checks that it returns a regexp.
23:04 < perlDreamer> preaction: Hey buddy, got your ears on?  What's your 10-20?
23:06 < perlDreamer> I've been looking at PassiveProfiling and wondering how bad the impact would be of using getLineage instead of the SQL query in addPage
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23:11 < perlDreamer> wgGuest89: what's up?
23:18 <@rizen> perlDreamer, don't make the switch
23:18 <@rizen> it will be worse
23:19 < perlDreamer> ok
23:20 < perlDreamer> I've been reading WGBP and thinking a lot about encapsulation and DRY
23:21  * perlDreamer solemnly swears not to let the air out of wG's tires.
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23:24 < wgGuest11> Hello everyone
23:24 < perlDreamer> wgGuest11: Hello
23:24 < perlDreamer> Do you have a question to ask
23:25 < wgGuest11> I do
23:25 < perlDreamer> Well, let's have it, man!
23:25 < perlDreamer> Don't be shy
23:25 < perlDreamer> Sail it on out here.
23:25 < wgGuest11> For some reason typing from IE it's extremely slow, so please bare with me
23:28 < wgGuest11> In our company, we have users authenticating via NT domain.  Can NT authentication be added to WebGUI 0.8.0?
23:28 < perlDreamer> Yes, but it would take a custom Authentication plugin
23:29 < perlDreamer> Also, WebGUI is at version 7.4.xx, the WRE is at 0.8.0 (and currently at 0.8.1)
23:31 < wgGuest11> you can tell I'm new to this
23:31 < perlDreamer> It's not a problem.
23:31 < perlDreamer> We were all new at one point
23:32 < wgGuest11> Is there any custom plugin created? That you know of.  I thought I saw something about that on the forum but for version 6
23:32 <@rizen> version 5 had one
23:32 <@rizen> called SMB auth
23:32 <@rizen> but it would need to be rewritten
23:32 <@rizen> to match the 7.x auth system
23:33 <@rizen> it used to be included in webgui, but everyone ditched NT domains for active directory domains a long time ago, so we got rid of the module
23:33 < perlDreamer> well, almost everyone :)
23:33 <@rizen> hehe
23:34 < wgGuest11> What can you suggest I do?  I not a programmer.  Experts-exchange? :)
23:35 <@rizen> hire plain black to make it
23:35 <@rizen> experts exchange likely won't help you becaue they aren't familiar with webgui
23:35 <@rizen> you need to hire a webgui specialist
23:36 <@rizen> perlDreamer consulting might be able to help you out too
23:36 < perlDreamer> I've heard that perlDreamer consulting is booked up through mid February with Commerce and Book work
23:40 < perlDreamer> besides, Plain Black knows the Auth stuff inside and out
23:57 < wgGuest11> Do you any idea how much something like that would cost?
--- Day changed Wed Jan 09 2008
00:00  * perlmonkey2 thinks .oO(If you have to ask)
00:02 < nuba> maybe an arm, maybe an arm and a leg, you'll have to ask 'em
00:02 < nuba> :D
00:04 < wgGuest11> "maybe an arm, maybe an arm and a leg, you'll have to ask 'em " Don't scare me please.  
00:04 < wgGuest11> :)
00:07 < nuba> hehe
00:08 < perlDreamer> wgGuest11: it would take a while to look at, but offhand/unofficially/don't quote me I would say it would be several k$ as an outer bound.
00:09 < nuba> myself, i can ensure you, and you can quote me on that, that zero dollars will certainly be a lower bound :)
00:09 < wgGuest11> 2 , 3 , 4?  I just need to have an idea if it's worthless or if I should wait until we migrate to AD.  Also, can LDAP be used with NT?  Maybe using OpenLDAP?
00:10 < nuba> i think there's no chance they'll ask for less than zero dollars 
00:10 < wgGuest11> "or less than zero dollars "  ????
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00:10 < nuba> sorry im feeling a bit comic today. thats what happens when mathematicians act funny.
00:10 < wgGuest11> lol
00:11 < wgGuest11> don't confuse me more. As a latino, I'm already confused enough.
00:12 < nuba> cool, where are you from?
00:13 < nuba> im from Brazil, but I wouldn't say we are inherently confused
00:13 < wgGuest11> PR but live in FL
00:14 < wgGuest11> I know nuba... :) 
00:15 < nuba> so, wgGuest11, this channel is mostly a hangout place for people in the webgui community,
00:15 < nuba> some plainblack staffers are around, but im not sure this is the best place to get a quote from them
00:17 < nuba> if none of them replies, your best bet is calling them or sending an email, contacts should be easy to find at the website
00:18 < perlmonkey2> If I weren't so busy, I would offer to do it for 1 million dollars.
00:19 < wgGuest11> you are mean
00:19 < wgGuest11> lol
00:19 < perlmonkey2> Just betting, I'd say somewhere between 2-4$
00:19 < wgGuest11> I was just trying to get a freebie :)  I noticed there was something already created for version 6 and I figured why not to ask.
00:20 < wgGuest11> Can anyone suggest a good starting point to learn Perl?
00:21 <@preaction> perlbot learn perl
00:21 < perlbot> http://learn.perl.org/library/beginning_perl/
00:22 < perlDreamer> go Haarg!
00:22 < perlDreamer> He's famous now.
00:22 <@preaction> uhoh
00:24 < wgGuest11> perlbot learn perl, a book?
00:24 < wgGuest11> never mind
00:24 < perlDreamer> Learning Perl, by Randal Schwartz is a good book to use to learn perl
00:25 < wgGuest11> how about the blackpearl
00:25 < perlDreamer> I've heard that's good, too, but unless you're a programmer, you may want to start down a notch or two.
00:25 <@preaction> the perl black book is what JT always recommends, but I prefer Learning Perl and Beginning Perl
00:26 <@preaction> Learning Perl is for those who know how to program and want to learn how to do it in Perl. Beginning Perl is for those who don't know how to program
00:26 <@preaction> BP taught me how to program, for that matter
00:27 < wgGuest11> I started school in Computer Science and then moved to Networking.  I know basic of C++, VB .net
00:28 < nuba> you can throw in Mastering Algorithms in Perl, too, if you want to increase the computer science content of your perl studies
00:28 <@preaction> if you know programming concepts already, Learning Perl and Programming Perl (the llama and the camel) are probably your best bets
00:29 < wgGuest11> http://www.perl101.org/
00:29 < wgGuest11> Cool, guys, thanks a whole lot for your help.  Take it easy
00:30 < nuba> talking about books, anyone reading MJD's Higher Order Perl?
00:30 < perlmonkey2> nuba: Actually that reminds me.  I ordered that like a month ago and it never showed up
00:30 < wgGuest11> need books, www.ebookee.com :)
00:30 < nuba> i've just started on it and its good so far
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00:36 < perlmonkey2> The new surveys will be made up of sections of questions.  Can anyone think of any options a section shoudl have besides randomizing the questions it contains?  
00:36 <@preaction> required / optional?
00:37 <@preaction> timed?
00:37 <@preaction> (just brainstorming here, up to you of course)
00:37 < perlmonkey2> the qeuestions themselves have optional options.....I wonder if that should be settable in the section to make it global....I like it.
00:37 <@preaction> probably need a "description"
00:37 < perlmonkey2> not sure what to do about timed......
00:37 <@preaction> yeah, timed might be far more trouble than its worth
00:38 < perlmonkey2> I have a header text, which will all a text to come before a new set of questions.  you can have empty sections to have a page just of text seperating questions.
00:38 <@preaction> it'd need a JS timer that would submit with the questions
00:39 < perlmonkey2> preaction: perhaps a little simpler?  Just have the timestamp of when the survey was opened and compare the the latest question submission.  If time has run out, post "so sorry", if time has not ran out, post normally but with the "time left" data posted for the JS to display.
00:40 < perlmonkey2> But that might be a survey wide attribute rather than sections.....but I like the way you're thinking.
00:40 <@preaction> right, but then you run into the problem where they don't get to submit what they've completed
00:40 <@rizen> pm2 the second option is probably better
00:40 <@rizen> and can't be cheated
00:40 <@preaction> a la standardized testing
00:40 <@rizen> sections might have section pointers
00:40 <@preaction> i suppose a message, or a periodic submit after questions. perhaps "timer" should be a global thing
00:41 <@rizen> like after you've completed this section, what section do you go to next
00:41 <@preaction> save your progress every once in a while
00:41 < perlmonkey2> sections will go in order, but question answers can be dragged onto questions in other sections.  So you can have three questions in S1 that go to S2, S3, S4, depending on the answer.
00:41 <@rizen> people seem to like colors too
00:42 <@rizen> maybe sections should have a color
00:42 <@rizen> i have no idea why or how you'd apply that
00:42 <@rizen> sorry, just spewing nonsense
00:42 < perlmonkey2> I mean three answers in S1Q1 so S1Q1A1 goes to S1 etc.
00:42 <@rizen> i'll stop now
00:42 < perlmonkey2> I like the color idea....in the edit screen was going to make sections a different colored bar in the questions div.
00:43 < perlmonkey2> http://www.lostokies.com:81/tree.html only new question does anything for now.  
00:43 < perlmonkey2> also, something is wrong with it in opera....haven't diagnosed.
00:46 < perlmonkey2> rizen: I'll really need your graphics guy.  I keep moving the buttons around but can't find a layout I like.
00:46 <@rizen> he's back from vacation
00:46 <@rizen> did you email him?
00:47 < perlmonkey2> The questions div could grow to hundreds in size.  Answers will probably have an upper bound of 20.  So there could be a situation where a person has to scroll waaay down to click on a question to edit, then scroll waaay back up to edit it in the edit box.  
00:47 < perlmonkey2> That will be party solved by sections being clickable so that they hide all the questions in them.
00:47 < perlmonkey2> not yet.
00:47 < perlmonkey2> but I will tonight
00:50 <@rizen> nice fix
00:50 <@rizen> i like that, the closing sections thing
01:23 < perlmonkey2> rizen: Sorry, work.  
01:24 < perlmonkey2> but yes, I hated the idea of hundreds of questions scrolling down forever, so the "tree"-ish sections idea pretty much solves it.
01:25 < perlmonkey2> rizen: I'll email your guy when I get home (I don't use my personal email at work).
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02:02 < nuba> any recommendations for javascript debugging? besides firebug..
02:03 <@apeiron> nuba, I've been using Firebug in tandem with the Web Developer plugin.
02:03 <@apeiron> Although I imagine someone else here probably has a better suggestion. :)
02:06 < nuba> im using both here too
02:11 < nuba> thx anyway, lets see if someone else posts something else..
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02:29 < cap10morgan_> in the 0.8.0 addsite script, when it calls $site->create(), it sends parameters named "siteDatabaseUser" and "siteDatabasePassword" but then the create sub looks for params named "databaseUser" and "databasePassword". Is it changing the name somewhere or am I looking at the wrong thing?
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02:44 < perlDreamer> I'm looking at the SVN version, and it's exactly the same there
02:44 < perlDreamer> I'd say it's a bug
02:44 < perlDreamer> good catch!
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02:46 < cap10morgan_> ah, i see :)
02:48 < CIA-20> WebGUI: colin * r5254 /WebGUI/t/PassiveProfiling.t: beginning to write tests for PassiveProfiling. This is so I can learn how to test Asset->logView
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07:11 < metanil> the name of the template is "style 03" with URL "style_03" .. but the body is referencing "style3/*****.jpg"..
07:11 < metanil> where is folder "style3".. how can i change that jpg file?
07:11 <+perlDreamer> there may not be a folder with that url
07:12 <+perlDreamer> remember, in WebGUI URLs are decoupled from physical organization
07:12 <+perlDreamer> so then you ask, "Well, how am I supposed to find it?"
07:12 < metanil> yes exactly
07:12 <+perlDreamer> in admin mode, if you go to that URL, you should get an editing bar for the image, or the edit form
07:13 <+perlDreamer> also, changing default wG components isn't recommended, since an upgrade could undo your work
07:13 <+perlDreamer> it's probably better to make a copy and work on that instead
07:13 <@preaction> but then he has to change every asset to use his new style
07:13 < metanil> copy means creating another template right?
07:13 <+perlDreamer> yes
07:14 < metanil> yes i did that. 
07:14 < metanil> thats why.. the new template is referecing the old image. 
07:14 < metanil> :D
07:14 <+perlDreamer> preaction: what's the name of that thing that lets people edit assets hierarchically?
07:14 < metanil> what should be name of new 'style3/***.jpg'?
07:14 <+perlDreamer> anything you want
07:15 < metanil> as style3 will reference to old want..
07:15 <@preaction> Edit Tree, or Edit Branch or something
07:15 <+perlDreamer> yeah, that's it
07:15 <@preaction> there's also a nice wiki article on how to do just about everything to create your own style
07:15 <+perlDreamer> thanks, my brain is shot tonight
07:15 <@preaction> eh, i'm working on 16-hour-day number 2
07:16 <+perlDreamer> I did something like that once, 16 hour days, 7 days/week for 3 months
07:16 <@preaction> 8 doing normal work and 8 doing things that will make my normal work easier and more efficient
07:16 <+perlDreamer> It was nuts
07:16 <@preaction> jeesus. i couldn't manage that for more than 3 weeks
07:17 <+perlDreamer> It's a little easier with a wife, aside from not seeing her and my boys, since she can do laundry and cook food
07:17 <+perlDreamer> but we vowed to never do that again
07:17 <+perlDreamer> ever
07:17 <+perlDreamer> so take it easy on yourself
07:18 <@preaction> ah, remind me to get my live-in girlfriend to start doing her fair share ;)
07:18 <+perlDreamer> otherwise, I'll have to come out to Wisconsin and chew you out
07:18 <@preaction> you'll like what i'm making, trust me
07:18 <+perlDreamer> I'm patient, I can wait a few more days for it
07:18 <@preaction> oh, btw, did you want your own branch? for anything?
07:18 <+perlDreamer> not right now
07:18 <@preaction> k
07:18 <+perlDreamer> I'm pretty tied up with writing a book chapter
07:19 <@preaction> frank gave me next week off to do my last one, thank vishnu
07:19 <+perlDreamer> take advantage of it ;)
07:20 <@preaction> oh i will, it's a chapter on writing Assets, so i expect it'll take the whole week
07:20 < metanil> i got it.. thanks guys.. 
07:21 <+perlDreamer> np, metanil
07:21 < metanil> actually my brain was also shot tonight :D
07:21 <@preaction> np, good luck
07:22 <+perlDreamer> time for the board of woe
07:22 <+perlDreamer> be back in 15
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07:44 <+perlDreamer> ouch
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09:49 < Bodanel> hello
09:49 < Bodanel> someone present ?
09:50 < metanil> everybody's here... 
09:50 < Bodanel> i have a small problem
09:51 < Bodanel> if i forgot about mysql configuration file my.cf and mysql dont start how can i fix the problem
09:51 < Bodanel> ?
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14:22 <+MrHairgrease> howdy
14:22 < BartJol> heee
14:23 <+MrHairgrease> hey bart!
14:37 <+Radix_> evenin martin, bart
14:37 < BartJol> afternoon Jesse
14:38 <+Radix_> been ice skating lately?
14:38 < BartJol> nope, but Martin has been skiing
14:39 <+Radix_> Dutch guy from my work went back home for christmas and said he got to ice skate - was pretty cool he said.
14:39 <+Radix_> cool
14:39 < BartJol> yeah, it was possible, but I was busy doing notthing
14:40 <+Radix_> heh
14:42 <+Radix_> I miss the beers from delft - managed to get a bottle of Weinerstephan Krystal here, but it's not the same as what it was like when i had it with you guys
14:42 < BartJol> well, you're always welcome
14:43 < BartJol> or otherwise maybe at the WUC
14:43 <+Radix_> yeah, but a bit of a long way to travel for a beer :)
14:44 <+MrHairgrease> hey radix
14:44 <+MrHairgrease> how are you?
14:44 <+MrHairgrease> miss the netherlands already?
14:45 <+MrHairgrease> than have two beers
14:45 <+MrHairgrease> halves the travel/beer ratio
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15:07 < Bodanel> Hello all
15:07 < Bodanel> can someone please help me with something
15:07 < Bodanel> ?
15:07 < BartJol> maybe\
15:07 < Bodanel> :
15:07 < Bodanel> ok
15:07 < BartJol> depends on the problem
15:08 < Bodanel> one of my collegues installed wre  0.8.1 but forgot to remove my.cnf file for sql
15:08 < Bodanel> and now sql dont start
15:08 < Bodanel> i dont know how to fix this
15:09 < Bodanel> may you help me BartJol?
15:09 < BartJol> ah, sorry I'm learning right know about installing
15:09 <+MrHairgrease> try to remove (or rename) the my.cnf
15:09 < Bodanel> ok
15:09 <+MrHairgrease> and run the setup again
15:09 <+MrHairgrease> i guess that'll do it
15:09 <+MrHairgrease> if not
15:09 < Bodanel> yes ?
15:09 <+MrHairgrease> just in stall the wre again
15:10 < Bodanel> ok
15:10 <+MrHairgrease> install*
15:10 < Bodanel> but how i undo the modications that wre already did to my system?
15:10 < Bodanel> or this modifications dont matter?
15:11 <+MrHairgrease> everything the wre installs is under /data
15:11 < Bodanel> so i remove the /data directory
15:11 < Bodanel> ?
15:11 <+MrHairgrease> so if you want to completely reinstall just remove everything under it.
15:11 <+MrHairgrease> and extract the tra ball again
15:11 <+MrHairgrease> tar*
15:12 < Bodanel> ok
15:12 < Bodanel> thks
15:12 < Bodanel> il try
15:12 <+MrHairgrease> i reckon you don't have any live sites in there right?
15:12 < Bodanel> no
15:12 <+MrHairgrease> ok
15:12 <+MrHairgrease> than that must work
15:12 < Bodanel> i found ou about webgui last week
15:12 < Bodanel> and now i am in process of testing
15:12 <+MrHairgrease> but i guess just running setup again will do the trick too
15:13 <+MrHairgrease> you can run setup by starting the wre console
15:13 <+MrHairgrease> and then goin to the localhost:60???/setup url that's in the docs
15:13 <+MrHairgrease> dunno the port number by hart
15:13 < Bodanel> 60834
15:13 < Bodanel>  :D
15:13 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
15:13 < Bodanel> ok
15:14 < Bodanel> il try just to run the setup and if this does not work il try to remove /data directory
15:14 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
15:14 <+MrHairgrease> just follow the install doc
15:14 < Bodanel> thks for your help
15:14 <+MrHairgrease> worked fine for me 
15:14 <+MrHairgrease> np
15:15 < Bodanel> and  for me
15:15 < Bodanel> but this installation was not done by me
15:15 < Bodanel> it was one of our web developers
15:16 < Bodanel> and he does not know linux so much
15:16 <+MrHairgrease> well
15:16 <+MrHairgrease> he should =)
15:16 < Bodanel> it is an old fashion guy
15:16 <+MrHairgrease> you mean he only knows vms?
15:16 < Bodanel> yes
15:17 < Bodanel> :(
15:17 <+MrHairgrease> hehe
15:17 < Bodanel> he started working in it when windows 3.11 was a state of the art
15:17 < Bodanel> and since then he worked only on windows
15:18 < Bodanel> the systems with linux were installed by the admin who was here before me
15:18 < Bodanel> thks
15:18 < Bodanel> thks agian
15:18 < Bodanel> i am going back to work now
15:19 < Bodanel> by
15:19 <+MrHairgrease> ok
15:19 <+MrHairgrease> good luck
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15:37 <+Radix_> Hey Martin - yeah, I miss the netherlands already - was one of my favourite spots that I visited on that trip - mostly because it was so relaxed and easy going and you guys made me feel so welcome :)
15:38 <+Radix_> As for how I am.. I'm good.. Yumi's looking at buying a house at the moment - so we're pretty excited about that.
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16:43 < perlmonkey2> Hmm, this is very interesting: http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/Making-Money-With-Open-Source-Part-1-Turning-Users-Into-Buyers-61083.html
16:43 < perlmonkey2> Seems like PB already knwos this.
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17:10 < CIA-20> WebGUI: doug * r5255 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fixes for Gallery and Gallery Utility
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17:48 < CIA-20> WebGUI: doug * r5255 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fixes for Gallery and Gallery Utility
18:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI: doug * r5255 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fixes for Gallery and Gallery Utility
18:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI: graham * r5256 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Keyword.pm): fix: Tag cloud was limited to 50 least commonly used tags
18:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI: graham * r5257 / (3 files in 3 dirs): 
18:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI: Merged revisions 5256 via svnmerge from
18:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI: https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/branch/WebGUI_7.4
18:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI: ........
18:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI:  r5256 | graham | 2008-01-09 05:43:02 -0600 (Wed, 09 Jan 2008) | 1 line
18:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI:  fix: Tag cloud was limited to 50 least commonly used tags
18:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI: ........
18:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI: doug * r5258 /branch/doug-experimental/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Nightly checkin because you forgot
18:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI: graham * r5259 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm): Use UTF8 for database connection when connecting to MySQL
18:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI: graham * r5260 / (3 files in 3 dirs): 
18:04 < CIA-20> WebGUI: Merged revisions 5259 via svnmerge from
18:04 < CIA-20> WebGUI: https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/branch/WebGUI_7.4
18:04 < CIA-20> WebGUI: ........
18:04 < CIA-20> WebGUI:  r5259 | graham | 2008-01-09 06:35:57 -0600 (Wed, 09 Jan 2008) | 1 line
18:04 < CIA-20> WebGUI:  Use UTF8 for database connection when connecting to MySQL
18:04 < CIA-20> WebGUI: ........
18:04 < CIA-20> WebGUI: graham * r5261 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/docs/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fix: Calendar Edit template refers to non-existant and other unneeded javascript files
18:04 < CIA-20> WebGUI: graham * r5262 / (4 files in 4 dirs): 
18:04 < CIA-20> WebGUI: Merged revisions 5261 via svnmerge from
18:04 < CIA-20> WebGUI: https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/branch/WebGUI_7.4
18:04 < CIA-20> WebGUI: ........
18:04 < CIA-20> WebGUI:  r5261 | graham | 2008-01-09 07:55:49 -0600 (Wed, 09 Jan 2008) | 1 line
18:04 < CIA-20> WebGUI:  fix: Calendar Edit template refers to non-existant and other unneeded javascript files
18:04 < CIA-20> WebGUI: ........
18:42 <@rizen> quick poll for whomever is listening
18:43 <@rizen> as i design the commerce system the thing that keeps hitting me over and over again is that i either need to store what currency or unit of measurement each monetary unit or weight is entered using
18:44 <@rizen> or i have to assume that the store, will always use the same weight unit or currency type through-out the store, and that way i don't have to keep track of it
18:44 <@rizen> i think the later is the better approach simply because it makes it compatible with any available currency or weight type
18:45 <@rizen> and perhaps more importantly, there's no unit conversion that has to be done (on the fly currency conversion is not easy or cheap to do properly
18:46 <@rizen> so my question is: a) store units of measurement, b) assume units of measurement to be uniform store-wide
18:49 < nuba> i like a) better
18:51 < nuba> how's it re: currency conversion rates, do you have a feed service from somewhere?
18:53 <@rizen> currency conversion rates would require that the store owner purchase a feed from somewhere
18:53 <@rizen> and i'd have to then find some feeds available for purchase and add them into the store
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18:56 < perlmonkey2> rizen: I think there are free feeds
18:56 < perlmonkey2> rizen: Google is probably up to date for most merchants.
18:57 < perlmonkey2> Just depends on how badarse you want the commerce system.  B is probably good enough for 90%
18:57 <@rizen> if i can get it at all from google, it won't be a live feed, and there will be a per day transaction limit, and the user will still have to register for a google key
18:57 <@rizen> my goal is to make it as streamlined as possible for a user to set up a store
18:58 <@rizen> fill out one form and you get your merchant account automatically registered and you're ready to sell
18:58 <@rizen> if i add in all this other bs, then it takes out the streamlining
19:00 < perlmonkey2> http://www.bankofcanada.ca/rss/fx/noon/fx-noon-all.xml
19:00 < perlmonkey2> rizen: I agree with you.
19:00 < perlmonkey2> the currency could be a plugin?
19:00 < perlmonkey2> version 2.0
19:01 < perlmonkey2> I like the agile programming guideline of setting a minimum spec and getting it out th edoor, then adding to it as needed.  But best to get something out the door first.
19:02 < nuba> another one http://www.webservicex.net/CurrencyConvertor.asmx/ConversionRate?FromCurrency=EUR&ToCurrency=USD
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19:03 <@rizen> from the time i clicked on that link until the time i received a response was approximately 40 seconds. Not fast enough.
19:03 <@rizen> at least not for doing realtime currency conversion into the user's native currency
19:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI: graham * r5263 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.4.20 release
19:04 <@rizen> i guess it would be ok if there was a background process that picked up the conversion rate every hour or something
19:04 < perlDreamer> it could be a workflow activity
19:04 <@rizen> background process = workflow activity
19:04 <@rizen> as far as webgui is concerned
19:05 <@rizen> it goes without saying
19:05 < perlDreamer> I'll say no more
19:05 <@rizen> heh
19:05 <@rizen> perlmonkey2  as far as getting this out the door and then adding to it
19:05 <@rizen> this is a very fundamental change
19:06 <@rizen> it's not something that can just be easily strapped on
19:06 <@rizen> as all objects in the system need to account for it if we're going to do it
19:06 <@rizen> so we might as well get it out of the way now...decide once and for all
19:06 < nuba> another one http://finance.yahoo.com/d/quotes.csv?e=.csv&f=s,l1,t1,d1&s=EURUSD=X'
19:07 < nuba> this one needs some massaging tho
19:07 <@rizen> yeah, but at least it was fast
19:07 < perlmonkey2> rizen: well.......then I'd go with adding the multiple currencies I guess.
19:08 <@rizen> why though?
19:08 <@rizen> who's going to use that?
19:08 < perlmonkey2> actually good point.
19:08 <@rizen> i've been looking around the internet for a store that does it
19:08 <@rizen> and haven't found one
19:08 < perlmonkey2> someone not paying for support won't be large enough to handle international shipping taxes and laws.
19:09 < perlmonkey2> mini-itx.org
19:09 < perlmonkey2> pounds and dollars
19:09 < perlmonkey2> and I think euros
19:09 < perlmonkey2> but they are hard coded or have a cheesy home brew 
19:10 < perlmonkey2> http://www.mini-itx.com/store/
19:10 < perlmonkey2> but they might be the exception that proves the rule.
19:10 <@rizen> all seem to be sold in pounds
19:10 < perlmonkey2> you can change the currency type in th eupper right.
19:10 < perlmonkey2> "reckoner"
19:10 <@rizen> ah
19:11 <@rizen> sorry didn't see that
19:11 < perlmonkey2> seems like most sites have a different site for each country they deal in.
19:11 < perlmonkey2> Plus paypal and CC's will handle the currency conversion for you, rihgt?
19:11 < nuba> better now 'http://finance.yahoo.com/d/quotes.csv?e=.csv&f=sl1t1d1&s=EURUSD=X'
19:11 < nuba> EURUSD=X",1.4664,"12:10pm","1/9/2008"
19:12 < nuba> reqs minimal massaging now
19:12 < nuba> and its fast
19:12 < nuba> wget -O - 'http://finance.yahoo.com/d/quotes.csv?e=.csv&f=sl1t1d1&s=EURUSD=X'  0.00s user 0.01s system 4% cpu 0.133 total
19:14 < nuba> rizen: i found this finance url in Jojo CMS
19:14 < nuba> http://pluginsvn.jojocms.org/jojo_convert_currency/tags/1.0b1/classes/JOJO/Currency.php
19:18 < CIA-20> WebGUI: graham * r5264 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm): reverting UTF-8 change
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19:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: jt * r5265 /releases/WebGUI_7.4.20-stable: Release 7.4.20-stable
19:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: graham * r5266 / (3 files in 3 dirs): 
19:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: Merged revisions 5264 via svnmerge from
19:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/branch/WebGUI_7.4
19:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: ........
19:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI:  r5264 | graham | 2008-01-09 10:59:46 -0600 (Wed, 09 Jan 2008) | 1 line
19:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI:  reverting UTF-8 change
19:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: ........
19:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: graham * r5267 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (4 files in 4 dirs): preparing for 7.4.21 dev
19:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: colin * r5268 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Gallery/Utility.pm: remove more bad whitespace from Gallery/Utility.pm
19:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: graham * r5269 /WebGUI/docs/ (5 files in 2 dirs): merging 7.4 changes
19:34 < perlDreamer> Is the Dashboard on the cutting block?
19:35 <@rizen> not that i'm aware of
19:35 < perlDreamer> The poll on the site made me curious
19:36 < perlmonkey2> Are there any stats on the number of WebGUI users?
19:37 <@rizen> we (plain black) are aware of around 10,000 webgui deployments
19:37 <@rizen> how many webgui users that makes i don't know
19:38 < perlmonkey2> That seems largish
19:38 < perlmonkey2> for an enterprise level CMS
19:48 < CIA-20> WebGUI: colin * r5270 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Asset.t: resolved bug/question about assetAddPrivilege and Turn On Admin group. Fixing test
19:52  * perlmonkey2 can't get focused on JS dev this morning
20:02 < nuba> rizen: how do you want people to add their googlemaps key to the site?
20:03 < nuba> i thought of a '3rd party plugins' tab in settings
20:03 <@rizen> per the spec it should be a property of the asset
20:03 < nuba> and to make it a textarea field, so people can just paste a single key there, 
20:04 <@rizen> text field not textarea
20:04 < nuba> or write domain.com herethekeyfordomain1
20:04 < nuba> domain2 herethekeyfordomain2
20:04 <@rizen> huh?
20:04 < nuba> i mean textarea, not a single-line textfield
20:05 < nuba> suppose, like plainblack.com and webgui.org
20:05 <@rizen> because you're going to allow for multiple keys?
20:05 < nuba> you need a different key for each
20:05 < nuba> yep
20:05 < nuba> so unless we add some key management feature where people add domain/key pairs
20:05 <@rizen> i suppose then a text area would work, but it might be easier for the user if you searated them into individual text fields 2 each line
20:05 <@rizen> domain and key
20:06 <@rizen> i really don't care though
20:06 <@rizen> just as long as it's an asset property
20:06 <@rizen> i thought about making it global to the site
20:06 < nuba> now theres this thing, i've written a Form::Location too
20:06 <@rizen> but in reality most people will likely only put one or two maps onto their site
20:07 <@rizen> and Form::Location also uses the key?
20:07 < nuba> well actually i think we need to talk a bit
20:07 < nuba> got a few minutes?
20:07 <@rizen> sure
20:07 < nuba> i have a vision in which you could attach location to any thing in webgui
20:08 < nuba> :)
20:08 < perlDreamer> Event calendar
20:08 <@rizen> ah
20:08 < perlDreamer> Wiki page
20:08 < nuba> thats why i wrote WebGUI::Form::Location
20:08 <@rizen> geo tagging
20:08 < nuba> yeah
20:08 < nuba> profiles
20:08 < nuba> whatever
20:08 <@rizen> ok
20:08 <@rizen> well in that case, perhaps your keylist should be specified as a setting in the settings page
20:09 <@rizen> but then in the asset properties, you should provide a note that the key must be set in your settings in order for the maps to display
20:09 < perlDreamer> If I'm kibitzing, please tell me to butt out, but if _any_ user can add a location, would each user need their own key, or would they all use the site one?
20:10 < nuba> my thinking is the site owner sets the site's keys
20:10 < nuba> user wont know it
20:11 < nuba> for the map asset, user would be able to see/add/edit/delete locations based on privileges set at the map
20:12 < nuba> another thing, rizen, i remember you said about porting Keywords to other things besides wikipages
20:12 < nuba> keywords/tagclouds
20:12 < nuba> whats your take on that
20:12 < nuba> ?
20:13 <@rizen> what's my take on what? keywords?
20:13 < nuba> porting it to other things
20:13 < nuba> like events, or posts, etc
20:13 <@rizen> it's already done
20:13 <@rizen> when i built it the keywords system was built directly into assets
20:13 <@rizen> it just needs to be exposed as a user interface
20:13 <@rizen> to each asset type that wants to suppor it
20:13 < nuba> oh i didnt see it yet then
20:14 < nuba> well when i thought this Keywords had been just written..
20:14 < nuba> anyway
20:14  * perlmonkey2 finally gives up on figuring out a good method for namespacing his JS objects.  
20:14 < nuba> i thought if could be nice if you could add locations to anything the same way you could with keywords
20:14 < perlmonkey2> function question function answer function whatever shall now be globally namespaced to trample on whomever is included with the same name.
20:15 < ckotil> adding a UI to add additional keywords will be great.
20:15 < ckotil> bc i have seen some cases where the indexing script doesnt do a well enough job.
20:16 < nuba> then i thought what this is doing is like "annotating content"
20:16 < nuba> you enable an "annotation" of the type Keyword, then enable another "annotation" of the type Location
20:16 < ckotil> you can use the summary/synospsis for that.
20:16 < ckotil> or even add more meta data.
20:17 <@rizen> nuba, i'm not in favor of adding a location field to every asset
20:17 < ckotil> i added a new metadata field to all of my assets recently. with the goal of creating customized views for our documentation system. which sits inline with our website.
20:17 <@rizen> some assets could certainly use it
20:17 < nuba> me too, not to every asset.
20:17 <@rizen> like the ones you mentioned
20:17 <@rizen> but it shouldn't be a property of WebGUI::Asset
20:17 < nuba> whats the best way for that, then?
20:18 <@rizen> but keywords are a property of WebGUI::Asset
20:18 <@rizen> for any assets that could use a location, there should be a location property added to them
20:19 <@rizen> as far as i see that right now, WebGUI::Asset::Event is the only one for sure
20:19 <@rizen> others may be useful
20:19 <@rizen> like Article
20:19 <@rizen> and WikiPage
20:19 < nuba> ok the second part is how to make sense of that location property
20:19 <@rizen> but certainly not things like Navigation, or Image
20:19 < nuba> ie. exposing the location in geocoded RSS is great
20:20 < perlDreamer> How about Photo?
20:20 < nuba> yeah
20:20 <@rizen> photo could definitely use a location
20:20 < perlDreamer> Post?
20:20 < nuba> maybe
20:20 <@rizen> probably not post
20:20 < nuba> depends on whats the collab asset being used for
20:20 <@rizen> yeah, and the collab is already too big
20:20 <@rizen> so i don't want to add more shit to it
20:20 <@rizen> =)
20:21 < perlDreamer> Would there be a macro version so that you could use maps in the user profile?
20:21 < perlDreamer> or other operations?
20:21 < nuba> my motivation in writing this all is for a content gallery (mainly photos) to be plotted in a map
20:21 <@rizen> you shouldn't need a macro for the user profile
20:21 < nuba> thats what picasa is doing now
20:21 < nuba> flickr too
20:21 <@rizen> yeah, i can totally see that
20:21 < perlDreamer> but that would be in the Gallery, not the CS
20:22 <@rizen> the photos in the gallery, and eventually videos once the plugin is made
20:22 <@rizen> should have a location
20:22 < nuba> job postings?
20:22 < nuba> travel blogs?
20:22 <@rizen> if there was a job object sure, but not in the collab
20:23 <@rizen> the collab needs to be refactored into several systems that are derived from collab
20:23 <@rizen> so that this sort of specialty stuff can be added
20:23 <@rizen> without clutter
20:23 < nuba> would it be possible to exist a matrix where you could have 'keywords, location' as columns, assets as lines, and checkboxes ?
20:24 < nuba> so dynamically enable/disable types of "annotations"?
20:24 <@rizen> anything is possible, but how about you start with getting the mapping system done first
20:24 < nuba> heh
20:24 < nuba> im getting it done
20:25 <@rizen> i also want to build an online auction system too, but i think i better get the commerce system done first
20:25 < nuba> and what is your comment about that matrix i just said?
20:26 < nuba> if you could have pluggable types of "annotations" to be enabled/disabled, using class::insideout?
20:26 <@rizen> the comment i just gave you is all you'll get from me until i see a completed mapping system checked in with tests, documentation, i18n, and templates into svn
20:27 < nuba> so you wont even allow for a sounding board and discuss the idea?
20:27 <@rizen> sure, go ahead and discuss all you want
20:27 < nuba> boy i was so excited when i saw a pattern in keywords and my location idea
20:28 < nuba> and thought of bringing it up
20:28 <@rizen> i don't like commenting on a future that is more than 3 months out
20:28 <@rizen> too much is variables
20:29 < nuba> ok
20:30 <@rizen> s/s//
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20:36 < cap10morgan> you know what would be cool? a generic JSON consumer asset that reflected the JSON into template variables
20:37 < cap10morgan> and then you could get JSON from web services, other external applications, etc.
20:37 <@rizen> that would be cool, but i have an even cooler idea, that i'll probably never get to
20:37 < cap10morgan> hahaha
20:37 <@rizen> i want to build a "Data Handler" asset
20:38 <@rizen> it would have a protocol handler
20:38 <@rizen> and a format handler
20:38 <@rizen> and then would be able to grab data from http, ftp, filesystem (protocol part)
20:38 <@rizen> oh...and sql
20:39 <@rizen> and then the format handler would be able to parse the resulting data set (xml, rss, json, DBI result set, etc) into a list of template varaiables
20:39 < cap10morgan> oh, yeah, that would be cool
20:40 < cap10morgan> what if you made it so that existing assets could be chained?
20:40 <@rizen> and since we're talking super pipe dream, optionally tie it into the graphing system
20:40 < cap10morgan> so the report-type assets could be protocol handlers
20:40 <@rizen> huh?
20:40 < cap10morgan> and the display-type assets could be format handlers
20:40 < cap10morgan> so you could say, here's a web service client asset, and it spits out json (or whatever)
20:41 < perlDreamer> he wants asset pipelines
20:41 < cap10morgan> and here's an article that consumes it and displays it
20:41 < cap10morgan> yeah
20:41 < cap10morgan> or a calendar, or whatever
20:41 <@rizen> and while you're at it, here's your cake, and you can eat it too
20:41 < cap10morgan> hahaha
20:42 < perlDreamer> Haarg: are you around?
20:42 <@Haarg> yeah
20:42 < perlDreamer> Is the Textarea also using yui-ext?
20:42 <@Haarg> no, it is using the correct path - extjs
20:43 < perlDreamer> Thanks.  I'll be more careful with my ack'ing next time
20:44 <@Haarg> the calendar was including a bunch of js files it didn't need
20:45 < perlDreamer> and they were using the wrong path to boot?
20:45 <@rizen> nuba: not true
20:45 <@rizen> textarea is using yui-ext for the draggable sizing
20:49 < nuba> ?
20:49 < perlDreamer> I think he meant me
20:50 < perlDreamer> and _I_ really meant to say extjs, which the Textarea doesn't use.
20:52 <@rizen> yui-ext, extjs, Ext...all the same thing
20:52 <@rizen> don't care what you call it
20:52 <@rizen> but textarea is using it
21:04 <@Haarg> Textarea uses extjs for resizing.  the calendar was trying to include that too, but had the wrong path (yui-ext).  additionally, it didn't need it.
21:28 -!- wgGuest87 [n=wgGuest8@168.8.72.205] has joined #webgui
21:28 < perlDreamer> wgGuest87: back so soon?
21:29 < wgGuest87> yea
21:29 < wgGuest87> firefox wasnt loading the chat correctly :P
21:29 -!- wgGuest87 is now known as spanishinquisiti
21:29 -!- spanishinquisiti is now known as spanishinquisitn
21:30 < spanishinquisitn> question for you guys
21:30 < spanishinquisitn> when I upload an image using the new image asset
21:30 < spanishinquisitn> its only showing a 481b file
21:30 < spanishinquisitn> and its not actually there...
21:30 < spanishinquisitn> any idea what is causing it?
21:31 < spanishinquisitn> because its only doing it SOME of the time
21:32 < nuba> is there anything in your webgui.log ?
21:37 < spanishinquisitn> it says permission denied - 
21:37 < spanishinquisitn> so its a permissions issue
21:37 < spanishinquisitn> but why does it work some and not other times
21:38 < perlDreamer> the permissions are changing in the filesystem?
21:39 < spanishinquisitn> I'm not a linux guy so I don't know what would cause that....   especially since no one has touched the computer
21:39 < spanishinquisitn> but if its a webgui thing permissions should be fine 
21:41 < ckotil> might need to perform a chown apache:apache -R /data/WebGUI/www/public/
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22:47 < ckotil> grr. asset doesnt exist, yet it thinks its locked.
22:47 < perlDreamer> asset doesn't exist in which table?
22:47 < ckotil> it tells me all that in the front end.
22:47 < ckotil> im poking around in the backend, and not having much luck either.
22:48 < perlDreamer> for problems like that, you have to use the db
22:48 < ckotil> the url is. 'iunoc'
22:48 < ckotil> so i run thi. 'select * from assetData where url = 'iunoc';
22:48 < ckotil> returns empty set.
22:48 < perlDreamer> so how does it act like it is locked?
22:49 < ckotil> webgui tells me so in the frontend.
22:49 < ckotil> is asset table the only place lock's are set?
22:49 < perlDreamer> there are 2 asset tables
22:49 < perlDreamer> asset and assetData
22:49 < ckotil> right.
22:49 < perlDreamer> locks are in asset
22:49 < perlDreamer> urls are in assetData
22:50 < perlDreamer> the assetId is the common link between them
22:50 < ckotil> right.
22:50 < perlDreamer> so, I would say that you have something cached by assetId, which says that it is locked. but since the url doesn't exist you can't access it
22:50 < perlDreamer> try clearing the cache and see if that helps
22:50 < ckotil> ok, good idea.
22:51 < ckotil> 2.5MB's!!!
22:51 < perlDreamer> big cache
22:51 < ckotil> largest i ever saw the cache.
22:52 <@rizen> 2.5 mb or gb?
22:52 < ckotil> MB
22:52 <@rizen> cuz i've seen caches grow to almost a gig
22:52 < ckotil> Permission Denied!
22:52 < ckotil> This Asset is locked for editing under a version tag different from the one that you are using. 
22:52 < ckotil> yikes. thats huge.
22:52 < perlDreamer> any uncommitted versionTags?
22:53 < ckotil> yes, a few, but this particular asset isnt in any of them.
22:53 < ckotil> i should just commit these tags.
22:53 < ckotil> theyve been outstanding for a month.
22:53 < ckotil> bastard users.
22:53 < perlDreamer> hehe
22:53 < perlDreamer> BUFH
22:53 < ckotil> ;)
22:53 < perlDreamer> now that would be a story worth reading
22:54 < perlDreamer> BOFH vs BUFH
22:54 < perlDreamer> who will win?
22:54 < ckotil> phew.
22:54 < perlDreamer> better?
22:54 < ckotil> that worked. commiting 3 old version tags.
22:55 < ckotil> yes.
22:55 < ckotil> thanks for the help.
22:55 < nuba> BOFH vs BUFH <-- both lose, competition wins
22:55 < perlDreamer> kind of like Alien vs Predator?
22:55 < nuba> competition as in other places where BOFHs and BUFHs aren't busy in war
22:55 < nuba> yeah
22:58 < ckotil> O's can snubb out the U's
22:59 -!- BartJol [n=Administ@k5023.upc-k.chello.nl] has joined #webgui
23:21 < perlDreamer> crap
23:21 < perlDreamer> I think I bricked my Sansa
23:38 -!- wgGuest01 [n=wgGuest0@host162.braishfield.com] has joined #webgui
23:38 < wgGuest01> hello everyone
23:38 < perlDreamer> hello '01
23:39 < perlDreamer> Do you have a question?
23:39 < metanil> could it be possible to put a link 'edit' in the side of the title ?
23:39 < perlDreamer> Do you mean instead of the toolbar?
23:39 < wgGuest01> how is the AD authentication set up on WebGUI?  not sure how to set up LDAP.
23:39 < metanil> ya not in 'admin mode on'
23:40 < perlDreamer> Editing requires being in Admin mode
23:40 < perlDreamer> so even if you show the link it wouldn't work
23:41 < metanil> but putting a link  like ...?func=edit will switch to admin mode, isn't it?
23:41 < perlDreamer> No
23:41 < metanil> really?
23:41 < metanil> i'll try again
23:41 <@preaction> you don't need to be in Admin Mode to edit an asset, really
23:41 <@preaction> just need ?func=edit
23:41 < perlDreamer> really?
23:41 <@preaction> Admin Mode just exposes the interface to those pages
23:41 <@preaction> and adds the Admin accordian
23:42 < perlDreamer> huh!
23:42 < wgGuest01> zzzZZZ :)
23:42 <@preaction> i find Admin Mode to be an annoyance for small changes
23:42 < metanil> i think i can edit without explicitly going into admin mode
23:42 <@preaction> wgGuest01, LDAP is something that doesn't even have a decent Wiki article. i've never had to set one up, and those who do usually get help from Plain Black Support
23:42 < ckotil> ive tried to setup LDAP a few times.
23:43 < ckotil> failed miserably each time.
23:43 <@rizen> the webgui admin guide shows you how to do it
23:43 < ckotil> we dont have a production LDAP server yet, so it isn that big of a deal for me... yet
23:43 < ckotil> the book I gotta buy?
23:43 <@rizen> yup
23:43 < ckotil> cool. 
23:44 < ckotil> it'd be nice to have a production LDAP server. leopard server would tie into it nicely i bet.
23:44 < ckotil> which would then allow me to kerberize the damned thing. which would  work nicely for ical server!
23:44 < ckotil> ical server is pretty depressing overall.
23:44 < wgGuest01> if I have users on AD and I want them to use their username and password from AD or have WebGUI authentica automatically with the user's account, is LDAP what I need?
23:44 < ckotil> it works great with the ical client, but thats it. sunbird is a hassle to get it working.
23:45 < metanil> preaction: do u know how to put an edit link on the side of the title?
23:45 <@rizen> 01: yes, use LDAP with AD
23:46 <@preaction> metanil, just adding ?func=edit to the url should work
23:46 < wgGuest01> are the users going to be able to open the intranet page and get automatically signed into webgui?
23:46 < metanil> preation, yes.. but i want it to be appear on side of the title.
23:47 < metanil> automation would be even great!
23:47 <@rizen> 01: no, webgui does single login (one username across all systems), but not single signon
23:49 <@preaction> metanil, you'd have to alter the template
23:50 < metanil> hmm..
23:50 < metanil> i think i got it..
23:50 <@preaction> remember to copy the template and make changes to your copy, then make your asset use the copy. changing default templates may cause problems when you update
23:50 < wgGuest01> I need to be able to show pages, links, menus based on the user/group permissions.  For example, I want to have a main page for every one, and only show certain info to accounting that maybe HR can't see.  How can that work with single sign login?  
23:51 <@preaction> wgGuest01, you don't need SSO for that. you just need Groups. anybody who's not in the "Group to View" an asset will not be able to see that asset
23:52 < ckotil> the same way it wold work with normal login. you would require a user to be in group XXX to view an asset.
23:52 < ckotil> then you can get really fancy with <tmpl_if's
23:52 <@rizen> and you can even tie your LDAP groups to your webgui groups
23:52 <@rizen> that's also explained in the WebGUI Admin Guide
23:52 < ckotil> ohh. i want that.
23:53 < perlDreamer> buy it!
23:53 < ckotil> im already at the store ;)
23:53 < perlDreamer> Good man
23:53 < wgGuest01> right, but I'm trying to avoid having another password for the users to remember.
23:53 < perlDreamer> rizen: Do I still get a commission? :)
23:53 <@rizen> they won't have another passwrod
23:53 <@rizen> they'll use their windows AD username and password in webgui
23:54 -!- nuba [n=nuba@hq.imaterial.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
23:54 <@rizen> perhaps you're confused about the difference between single login and single signon
23:54 <@rizen> single signon means that you log in to windows
23:54 <@rizen> and you're automatically logged into webgui
23:54 <@rizen> single login means you log into windows
23:54 <@rizen> and you still have to log into webgui
23:54 <@rizen> but you use the same username and password to do both
23:56 < ckotil> sent the message to my secratary to order the book. she'll place the order in the mornig.
23:57 < ckotil> with that. im heading home. later all.
23:57 < perlDreamer> I wish _I_ had a secretary
23:57 < perlDreamer> she could write code so that I could write more tests
--- Day changed Thu Jan 10 2008
00:00 < metanil> what is the current article url?? is it <tmpl_var pageUrl>  ??
00:04 < perlDreamer> ^PageUrl; works
00:04 < wgGuest01> sooo, if someone log in to windows they will log in to webgui and depending on the way I set up their user access they'll be able to access what I want them to access?  
00:04 < perlDreamer> wgGuest01: yes
00:06 <@preaction> metanil, the online help has all the template variables everywhere, along with friendly descriptions
00:06 < perlDreamer> Yes, and as rizen said, you can setup LDAP so you only have to set up the access in one "realm" AD vs WebGUI
00:06 < wgGuest01> great
00:06 < wgGuest01> now I don't have to pay a leg and an arm ;)
00:07 < perlDreamer> No, you don't because you don't have to install SharePoint or anything else
00:07 < perlDreamer> but you can help support wG by buying the Admin guide/ Content Manager's guide and other stuff
00:07 < wgGuest01> or get a custom NTLM module ;)
00:07 < perlDreamer> since that's how Plain Black stays afloat
00:08 < perlDreamer> right, or get a custom NT auth module, or resurrect the old SMB one
00:08 < wgGuest01> how 7K for a custom module sound?
00:08 < wgGuest01> it hurts
00:08 < wgGuest01> I'll wait to migrate to AD in two months
00:09 < perlDreamer> I agree, but it's better than buying CAL packs from MS
00:09 < wgGuest01> :) true
00:10 < wgGuest01> My company will get the complete support from PlainBlack for the first year and we'll go from there.  We might not need after the first year everything but the online support.
00:11 < perlDreamer> That's very wise.  Get trained with all the basics, then step down to the level you need
00:12 < wgGuest01> Right, I'm an Asst. System Admin, not a web developer.  This will help me to get my skills sharpen, specially perl.  
00:12 < perlDreamer> Maybe, but the real thing to think about is being able to put editing and content management tools out in the hands of your users, instead of having to do it all yourself.
00:13 < perlDreamer> You may not even need to learn perl, although I'd recommend it.
00:13 < wgGuest01> I love FireBug, it will help me a lot to understand CSS, etc.
00:13 < wgGuest01> I like the challenge :)
00:19 < wgGuest01> Finally, do I have to add every single username in AD to WebGUI manually?
00:20 < perlDreamer> I've never really used LDAP/AD, but if there isn't a workflow activity that does it, there is a script to do it
00:20 < perlDreamer> called userImport
00:22 < wgGuest01> great
00:22 < wgGuest01> How do I change my username (wgGuest01)?
00:22 <@preaction> use /nick <newname>
00:22 -!- perlDreamer is now known as myNewNickname
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00:22 < wgGuest01> lol
00:22 < wgGuest01> cool
00:22 < wgGuest01> thanks
00:22 <@preaction> or you can use a proper IRC client to connect to: irc.freenode.net #webgui
00:22 <@preaction> then you don't have to use that Java POS
00:23 < wgGuest01> user /nick geeKinpuT
00:23 -!- wgGuest01 is now known as geeKinpuT
00:23 < geeKinpuT> duh
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00:24 < perlDreamer> I think we're going to like him
00:25 <@rizen> um
00:26 <@rizen> methinks he may be the new ehab
00:26 <@rizen> and we haven't even gotten rid of our old ehab
00:26 <@rizen> so that means we have two ehabs
00:26 <@rizen> which may or may not be a good thing
00:27 < perlDreamer> I know you don't always appreciate ehab's feedback, but at least he gives _some_ feedback.
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00:27 <@preaction> if they take what they know and propagate it. community advocates, etc... that's a good thing
00:27 <@rizen> yup
00:27 <@rizen> that's a good thing
00:27 <@preaction> had a guy last week who made a forum post and came to IRC, and was nice enough when he got the answer on IRC to reply to his own post with the answer
00:27 <@rizen> as long as they spread what they learn
00:28 <@rizen> see that's cool
00:28 < perlDreamer> We need to be sure to encourage all new users to be good community members
00:28 <@preaction> we lead by example
00:28 < perlDreamer> Yeah, so long as I don't keep giving people the wrong answers to their questions it will be fine :)
00:28 <@rizen> ehab turns everything into a rant about how plain black isn't doing something or other right
00:29 <@rizen> and for the most part, it's just cuz he's to cheap to buy the things we provide so he can do it right, or to take the time and initiative to learn it for himself
00:30 <@rizen> i like ehab, he's fun to talk to and often has good ideas
00:30 <@preaction> http://www.slash7.com/pages <- fun article on "Help Vampires", which reminds me that we should build some FAQ topics on the wiki
00:31 <@rizen> i just don't like that he's a "give me the world for $0.01 or less please" type of person
00:33 < perlDreamer> I took a class from Amy at OSCON two years ago.
00:33 < perlDreamer> She did well
00:34 <@rizen> THAT'S A GOOD ARTICLE
00:34 < perlDreamer> indeed
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00:34 < SynQ> jahoo!
00:34 < SynQ> nerd time
00:35 <@preaction> unf
00:35 < perlDreamer> Howdy, SynQ!
00:35 < perlDreamer> Is your beautiful wife pregnant yet?
00:35 < SynQ> nope
00:35 < SynQ> sorry
00:35 < SynQ> direct questions, direct answers
00:35 <@rizen> if she was, it would be with my beautiful baby
00:36 < perlDreamer> Well, you were quiet excited about kids at the WUC.  So I had to ask.
00:36 <@rizen> =)
00:36 < SynQ> hehe
00:36 < SynQ> :)
00:36 < SynQ> I'm quite exited about the hat sarah found for me
00:36 < SynQ> the one of the butcher
00:36 < BartJol> jeah, and he never stops talking about getting kids
00:36 < SynQ> hehe
00:37 < SynQ> at least at my house bart gets to sleep in a bed >:)
00:37 < SynQ> but that's more cause our couch is smaller than JT's :)
00:37 < BartJol> indeed it is
00:38 < SynQ> JT!
00:38 <@rizen> my couch is very comfortable
00:38 < SynQ> I love WebGUI!
00:38 <@rizen> i fall asleep on it all the time
00:38 < SynQ> just had to say
00:38 <@rizen> sweet
00:38 < SynQ> sorry
00:38 <@rizen> now go write six articles about it and get them published in major press junkets
00:38 < SynQ> didn't mean to get mushy or something
00:38 < SynQ> uh
00:39 < SynQ> I could if you got someone to die over WebGUI
00:39 < SynQ> someone has to make a sacrifice
00:39 < SynQ> perhaps Doug?
00:39 < SynQ> we could habashi him?
00:39 < BartJol> ah, that would be me  being sacrificed by Koen?
00:39 < SynQ> nope
00:39 < metanil> i can't find template variable in wiki.. any links?
00:39 < SynQ> bart, you are too precious
00:40 <@rizen> template variables are documented in the online help that comes with webgui
00:40 < SynQ> doug whould suit being a sacrifice much better
00:40 <@rizen> i need him
00:40 <@rizen> sacrifice vrby
00:40 < SynQ> he'd tell silly jokes while the blood is pooring from him
00:40 < SynQ> vrby?
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00:40 < BartJol> but he very kindly helped me this week at 3 am
00:40 < SynQ> sorry, vrbsky is too funny
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00:41 <@rizen> well i need vrby too, so sacrifice martin
00:41 <@rizen> or vayde
00:41 < SynQ> we could take one of the sons of rian?
00:41 <@rizen> vayde says he wants to help the community
00:41 < BartJol> shouldn't it be a beautifull virgin?
00:41 <@rizen> so maybe he'd be willing to make a sacrifice
00:41 < SynQ> oh yeah it should
00:41 < SynQ> didn't frank have a doughter?
00:41 <@rizen> vayde might be a virgin
00:41 < BartJol> hows the gooey underwear doing?
00:41 <@rizen> but beautiful.......nah
00:42 < vayde> close enough, with the action I get these days
00:42 < vayde> which altar may I leave my heart on?
00:42 < SynQ> that's the spirit!
00:42 <@preaction> the alter of mediocre sorrow
00:42 < vayde> oh, is that all?  been there for a while now
00:43 < SynQ> hehe
00:43 < SynQ> and there comes the man of my first choice
00:43 < SynQ> or, as I'd like to call him 'habashi man'
00:43 < SynQ> or was it 'hibashi man'
00:43 <@preaction> hibachi i think
00:43 < SynQ> ah
00:44 < SynQ> so 'hibachi man' it is :)
00:45 < SynQ> I'm looking forward to the WUC allready
00:45 <@preaction> is it worse when code doesn't work but you don't know why, or when it Does work and you don't know why? (and you're the one who wrote it)
00:45 <@preaction> surprisingly, so am i. I've been thinking up topics i want to speak about already ;)
00:46 < SynQ> sure
00:46 < SynQ> talk about primary needs, like coffee, sleep, or sex
00:46 < SynQ> or hibachi
00:46 < vayde> I'll have to come in with horror stories about how not to write code
00:46 <@preaction> definately hibachi
00:46 < BartJol> you need Doug?
00:47 < BartJol> mmm, maybe I should move a couple of feet
00:47 < SynQ> I'm sure by now bartjol is really curious about what hibashi is
00:47 < BartJol> sound like raw fish
00:47 < SynQ> not raw
00:47 < SynQ> fried stuff
00:47 < SynQ> fried everything
00:48 < SynQ> your flatmate Janne can learn from that
00:48 < BartJol> :)
00:48 < BartJol> well, but he combines mayonaise with more stuff
00:48 <@preaction> a big hotplate / grill thing in the table, cook comes and fries up steak, vegetables, seafood, rice, everything right there
00:49 < SynQ> and graham can eat from it too
00:49 < BartJol> sounds nice
00:49 < SynQ> he's actually quite good at it
00:50 < SynQ> has graham gained any weight since the wuc?
00:50 < perlDreamer> Not according to his picture
00:50 < perlDreamer> oh, btw, Frank has a son
00:50 < SynQ> ah
00:50 < SynQ> who has a doughter then?
00:52 < SynQ> sorry daughter i mean
00:52 < SynQ> damn language
00:53 <@rizen> ryan and kristi just had a little baby girl
00:53 < SynQ> ah 
00:53 < SynQ> but the boys deserve a sister
00:53 < BartJol> Koen, you're falling behind
00:53 <@rizen> kristi was the preggo one at the wuc
00:53 < SynQ> I know
00:53 <@rizen> ok
00:54 < SynQ> and a fine looking one too :)
00:54 <@rizen> are you talking about me or her =)
00:54 < BartJol> Koen get me something to drink
00:54 <@rizen> gotta go
00:54 < BartJol> you too JT
00:54 < SynQ> hehe
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00:54 < BartJol> you handsome fellow
00:55 < SynQ> JT, you've got a nice belly too :)
00:59 < SynQ> JT, is sarah around?
01:00 < SynQ> afk
01:00 < SynQ> is it lunch time or something?
01:02 < BartJol> well some people have to work around midnight
01:04 < metanil> where is the source file for template variable controls??  or where this variable is handled?
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01:10 < metanil> template variable 'controls' is for the toolbar.
01:11 < SynQ> I've got a WRE for debian etch
01:12 <@preaction> metanil, controls is usually handled by either Asset::processTemplate, or somewhere in the asset itself with getToolbar().
01:15 < metanil> one quick question. pageUrl will point to current page whether the article is within inside some other page layout .. if i want to get current article url directly, is there any template variable..? I looked through online help but there is no such thing.. 
01:21 <@preaction> you don't want to use the PageUrl macro. you want to edit the asset's view template to use its own url (<tmpl_var url>) to add the edit link
01:22 < SynQ> almost time for bed
01:25 < perlDreamer> perlbot vamp is http://www.slash7.com/articles/2006/12/22/vampires
01:25 < perlbot> added vamp to the database
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01:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: chrisn * r5271 /WebGUI/ (6 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)
01:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: Add the Widget macro. This enables assets to be widgetized (easily embedded in
01:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: another page). Usage as such: ^Widget(assetId, width, height, templateId);
01:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: assetId is the ID of the asset to widgetize, width and height are the size of
01:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: the iframe, templateId is the template ID of the template to use for the widget
01:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: itself. This will pop up an icon that shows you some markup to put on another
01:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: page to embed the asset in widget form. If no template given, will use the
01:36 < perlDreamer> apeiron: how is a widgetized asset different from an assetProxied asset?
01:36 <@apeiron> perlDreamer, Widgets let you have WebGUI content on a non-WebGUI, possibly static, site.
01:37 <@apeiron> perlDreamer, widgetbox.com has a large library of examples of the kind of thing that the Widget macro in WebGUI seeks to achieve.
01:38 < perlDreamer> thanks, I'll check it out!
01:38 <@apeiron> perlDreamer, So say you have a static server, right, and a dynamic server. The dynamic server has a poll on it... you widgetize the poll, stick the markup on the static server, and voila, dynamic on static. :)
01:48 < CIA-20> WebGUI: colin * r5272 /WebGUI/t/PassiveProfiling.t: 
01:48 < CIA-20> WebGUI: Rework the PassiveProfiling test to use newly created macros.
01:48 < CIA-20> WebGUI: Add coverage for addPage in the tests.
01:49 < perlDreamer> another module bites the dust
01:50 <@preaction> woot!
01:50 <@preaction> coverage++
01:50 <@preaction> perlDreamer++
01:50 <@preaction> unless you  mean some other form of "bite the dust"
01:50 < perlDreamer> Nope
01:50 < perlDreamer> Although...
01:50 < perlDreamer> I did think of a way to make it run faster
01:50 < perlDreamer> addPage calls add in a loop
01:51 < perlDreamer> it should send the list of assetIds to add, and add should do a prepare, loop -> execute on data
01:51 < perlDreamer> it should be faster that way
01:52 < metanil> the page in the admin mode is not the same in  normal mode. is it due to cache? (i just change the template)
01:52 < perlDreamer> metanil: that should be cache related
01:53 < metanil> i clear the local cache.. but that doesn't sovle the problem. 
01:53 < metanil> and i've also restart both modproxy and modperl.
01:53 < metanil> on the server
01:54 <@preaction> Version Tag
01:54 <@preaction> did you read the article on How to Give WebGUI Your Own Style? it has a lot of useful information for working with webgui
01:55 < perlDreamer> That's in the wiki, right?
01:56 <@preaction> yeah
01:58 < metanil> thats great article.. i solve by clearing cache
01:58 < perlDreamer> clearing cache on the server?
02:08 < metanil> yes
02:08 < metanil> i mean in webgui itselt
02:09 < perlDreamer> The visitor cache can be quite long, which is why it's bypassed in admin mode.
02:09 < metanil> anybody know what profileField("uiLevel") will do? could this be accessed through template level using template variable?
02:09 < perlDreamer> metanil: You need to spend some time with the wiki
02:09 < perlDreamer> that's all described in there
02:09 < metanil> oops
02:09 < perlDreamer> 'salright
02:15 < perlDreamer> btw, I've only been wrong twice today
02:16 < perlDreamer> If I'm wrong again, I'll eat my words and write the wiki page
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04:09 < metanil> groupidadminuser is groupid for admin .. but what is groupidadminuseradd??
04:10 < metanil> users to allow to add other users?
04:10 <@preaction> hold your mouse over the name of the permission on the settings page, it describes what it does
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15:36 < spnishinqusition> anyone here have webgui installed on mac osX ?
15:40 < dapperedodo> yes
15:41 < dapperedodo> on an intel mac with leopard 
15:41 < spnishinqusition> have you previously installed on linux as well?
15:45 < dapperedodo> yes on debian
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15:56 < spnishinqusition> which did you find easyier to install and setup on?
15:57 < spnishinqusition> easier*
15:57 < dapperedodo> on the mac, that was precompiled
15:58 < dapperedodo> On debian I had to do it from source
15:58 < dapperedodo> But the Debian now also has a precompiled version
15:59 < spnishinqusition> well i have it installed on a mac - but it tends to give me problems from time to time
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16:00 < dapperedodo> I did not have problems so far on both installs
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16:15 < SDuensin> Greetings!
16:15 < perlmonkey2> Salutations.
16:16 <+MrHairgrease> greasings
16:16 < perlmonkey2> hah
16:21 < SDuensin> :-)
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17:18 < wgGuest33> hello
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17:19 < wgGuest33> I like to upload a picture by the collaborative system and you do not get off the resolution?
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17:21 < wgGuest33> hello
17:22 < wgGuest33> someone knows?
17:37 < ckotil> can you clarify the last part of your question?
17:40 < wgGuest33> when i up an image for the collaboration system this is bad
17:40 < wgGuest33> down the resolution
17:41 <+MrHairgrease> do you mean that your image is automatically scaled to a lower resolution?
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17:41 < wgGuest33> yes
17:42 <+MrHairgrease> chage the max image size in the setting panel of the admin console
17:42 <+MrHairgrease> that should do it
17:42 < wgGuest33> ok, wait a minute
17:45 < perlmonkey2> I've been reading about FOSS businesses, and it seems that the norm is 2% paying customers out of total users.  Does that sound reasonable for WebGUI?
17:46 <@rizen> no
17:47 <@rizen> we're at about 20%
17:47 <@rizen> and that number is growing year after year
17:47 <@rizen> very slowly
17:47 < perlmonkey2> that is frik'n nuts......that is HUGE!
17:47 <+MrHairgrease> that a 1000% improvement =)
17:47 < perlmonkey2> so you guys are like FOSS rock stars when it comes to making money off of FOSS?
17:49 < perlmonkey2> too cool
17:55 < wgGuest33> this max size image that is?
17:57 <+MrHairgrease> if you upload an image to your site which has a width, height (or both) that is larger than the number you enter in the max image size box
17:57 <+MrHairgrease> webgui will scale the image down to that number
17:57 <+MrHairgrease> the number is in pixels
17:58 < wgGuest33> Then I suggest that value to put
17:59 <+MrHairgrease> if you don't want wg to scale your images
18:00 <+MrHairgrease> just set that value to 100000 or some other insanely high value
18:02 < wgGuest33> mmm the size image is 139 pixels
18:02 < wgGuest33> then why happend?
18:02 < wgGuest33> when i upload the image for the ftp, this not happen
18:02 < wgGuest33> but when i do for the collaboration system, yes
18:03 <+MrHairgrease> i do not understand what you mean
18:04 <+MrHairgrease> oh
18:04 <+MrHairgrease> the collaboration system also has its own max image size
18:04 < wgGuest33> nop
18:04 < wgGuest33> no
18:04 <+MrHairgrease> to change that edit your cs and go to the display tab
18:05 <+MrHairgrease> if you set the value to 0 it'll used the sitewide default
18:05 <+MrHairgrease> that's not it?
18:05 <+MrHairgrease> you are aware that a thumbnail is generated right?
18:05 < wgGuest33> yes
18:06 < wgGuest33> in the box thumbnail i have 139
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18:06 <+MrHairgrease> so what is the problem?
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18:09 < wgGuest33> When upload an image is generated by FTP and the html image does not drop the resolution, but when the upload system for collaboration that its low resolution
18:10 <+MrHairgrease> first there is no ftp inside webgui
18:11 < wgGuest33> i know
18:11 <+MrHairgrease> secondly what is your max image size setting
18:11 < wgGuest33> 100000
18:11 < wgGuest33> and the image that upload is 139 pixels
18:11 <+MrHairgrease> yeah, but that's the thumbnail right?
18:12 <+MrHairgrease> or is it also 139 px if you click on the thumbnail?
18:12 < wgGuest33> also
18:12 <+MrHairgrease> then i dunno...
18:12 <+MrHairgrease> what version are you running?
18:13 <+MrHairgrease> and what's the url of the image that has been scaled down?
18:13 < GeeKinpuT> Can someone explain how the databases for WebGUI work?  Are they saved on the data\wre folder? Can they be viewed using MySQL Administrator.
18:13 < wgGuest33> version 7.4.15
18:14 <+MrHairgrease> geekinput: they are saved somewhere in the /data/wre/.../var folder
18:15 <+MrHairgrease> and you cpuld prolly connect to them using your mysql admin tool thingy
18:15 <@rizen> http://www.webgui.org/dev/db-schema
18:16 < wgGuest33> http://www.supernotariado.gov.co/home/elementos-interface/sistema-colaborativo-banners-izquierdo/portal-de-contratacin#cvuLoidMmhM3UTqKn8AhPw
18:18 <+MrHairgrease> hmm
18:18 <+MrHairgrease> well, maybe you've hit a bug.
18:19 <+MrHairgrease> can you reproduce the behaviour on demo.webgui.org?
18:19 < GeeKinpuT> do they have a size limit?  Can they be optimized?  The reason I ask is because I want to put a lot of documents, forms, eventually video training, etc.  I wasn't sure what get saved on the databases and what goes to a directory.  I wan't to make sure I have enough room on the server.
18:19 <+MrHairgrease> if so, please submit a bug report on webgui.org/bugs
18:19 <+MrHairgrease> collateral data is saved to the filesystem
18:20 <+MrHairgrease> stuff like files and images that is
18:21 <+MrHairgrease> rizen: are the wuc talks digitized yet?
18:22 <@rizen> no
18:23 <@rizen> we won't digitize until we have a video plugin for the gallery
18:23 <+MrHairgrease> ok
18:23 <@rizen> because we don't want to digitize twice
18:23 <@rizen> so if you want to volunteer to write that
18:23 <@rizen> then we'll digitize
18:23 <@rizen> =)
18:23 <+MrHairgrease> heh
18:23 <+MrHairgrease> i could do that
18:23 <+MrHairgrease> if you volunteer to do my graduation for me
18:23 <+MrHairgrease> =)
18:23 <@rizen> unfortunately i overestimated the free time that our devs (including me) were going to have
18:23 <+MrHairgrease> same here
18:23 <@rizen> so i thought we'd be able to get it done early in the year
18:24 <@rizen> but it's looking more like summer or after before we can get the video plugin done
18:24 <+MrHairgrease> ok
18:24 <@rizen> unless some client comes along to pay for it
18:24 <@rizen> or someone volunteers
18:24 <+MrHairgrease> what's that suposed to look like?
18:24 <+MrHairgrease> flv format?
18:24 <@rizen> i'm really sorry about that, cuz i'd love to have webgui tube up
18:24 <@rizen> it will probably be flv
18:24 <@rizen> but it might also be mpeg
18:24 <+MrHairgrease> ok 
18:24 <@rizen> for swf
18:25 <@rizen> it just depends upon which player we decide to go with
18:25 <+MrHairgrease> it seems like a cool project
18:25 < perlmonkey2> Since JS apparently can't use a '~' in a function name, what would be a good standard for calling destructors?
18:25 <+MrHairgrease> when i have time again and still think it's cool i'll let you know =)
18:26 <@rizen> ok
18:26 <@rizen> i also think it is cool
18:26 <+MrHairgrease> the thing is
18:26 <@rizen> and if i didn't have to prepare speeches for all the trade shws andother talks
18:26 < perlmonkey2> this.delete?  this.fubar, this.eraseme, this.free, this.mylastday, this.!malloc?
18:26 <@rizen> as well as write the commerce system
18:26 <@rizen> i'd do it
18:26 <+MrHairgrease> i need something like that for the koornbeurs
18:26 <@rizen> this.DESTROY
18:27 <+MrHairgrease> but that's on the todo stack for a long time already
18:27 < perlmonkey2> rizen: hah, why didn't I think of that
18:27 < GeeKinpuT> is this for suse  wre-0.8.1-sles-10_sp1-ia32.tar.gz?
18:27 <+MrHairgrease> guess so
18:28 <+MrHairgrease> rizen: one last question
18:28 <+MrHairgrease> would the gallery be usable under 7.4.x/
18:29 <+MrHairgrease> ?
18:29 <+MrHairgrease> or at least easily backportable?
18:29 <@rizen> yes
18:29 <@rizen> well it should be
18:29 <+MrHairgrease> =)
18:29 <@rizen> cuz it just uses normal webgui subsystems
18:29 <@rizen> nothing new was developed for it
18:29 <+MrHairgrease> no fancy new stuff
18:29 <+MrHairgrease> ok
18:29 < GeeKinpuT> I was wondering if it works with OpenSuSe.  Can anyone suggest linux distro to run WebGUI?
18:29 <+MrHairgrease> i use ubuntu or debian
18:30 <+MrHairgrease> both work fine
18:30 <+MrHairgrease> and
18:30 <+MrHairgrease> you can also compile it
18:30 <+MrHairgrease> on my laptop it only takes abot 40 minutes
18:31 <@rizen> plain black deploys on RHEL and CentOS
18:31 <@rizen> so if you want something that's guaranteed to work, those are good choices
18:31 <+MrHairgrease> i think the best distro to use webgui on is the one you feel most comfortable with
18:31 <@rizen> that's a good point
18:31 <+MrHairgrease> if there's no binary for it yet
18:31 <+MrHairgrease> just compile it 
18:32 <@rizen> i don't recommend deploying on windows for a production environment though
18:32 < GeeKinpuT> RHEL, but I have to purchase support for it, right?
18:32 <+MrHairgrease> and upload it to sourceforge so other can benefit from you rcompile session
18:32 <@rizen> WRE on windows is very good, but still not as good as the *nix versions
18:32 <+MrHairgrease> since when is windows a linux distro =)
18:33 <@rizen> RHEL is for a fee, but centos is the free version of the same thing
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18:36 < GeeKinpuT> So I would use wre-0.8.1-rhel-5-ia32.tar.gz to install on CenOS 5?
18:37 < perlmonkey2> GeeKinpuT: pretty much.  I used the rhel to install on Fedora, without issue.
18:38 < GeeKinpuT> great
18:38 < perlmonkey2> and centos will be closer to RHEL than fedora.
18:38 < GeeKinpuT> Thanks
18:48 < CIA-20> WebGUI: colin * r5273 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/PassiveProfiling.pm: refactor PassiveProfiling into using placeholders for speedup
18:48 < CIA-20> WebGUI: colin * r5274 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm: fix pad POD spacing in www_widgetView
18:49 <+MrHairgrease> i'm going home
18:49 <+MrHairgrease> see you guys later
18:50 < perlDreamer> later, MrHairGrease
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20:02 < elnino> hi. quick question. I want to create a form to search a external database on our site. Do I use the "Data Form" or the "SQL Form"? I have a macor that will take the form parameters and display the data for me already. Or do I just write the html in a snippet?
20:03 < perlDreamer> You wouldn't use the DataForm.
20:03 < perlDreamer> If it's an existing database, it might easiest to use the SQL Report
20:04 < perlDreamer> the SQL Form will import other, existing, table (I think), but it adds a whole bunch of stuff to it.
20:04 < perlDreamer> I'd use the SQL Report
20:04 < perlDreamer> In fact, it can already handle getting form parameters, so you shouldn't need a macro at all
20:05 < perlDreamer> Just the form code, and a submit button.
20:06 < perlDreamer> did all that make sense?
20:07 < elnino> yep. So it sounds like the form code should be in a snippet. I didn't use sqlreport, because the code to display the data was too complex for it. I was hopingn for a user friendly asset to create the search form so that marketing can change it if they want.
20:07 < perlDreamer> Well, as long as you don't mind SQL Report altering the remote table, you can use it
20:08 < elnino> Opps you lost me on the last comment. (Thank you for your quick responses!)
20:09 < perlDreamer> The SQL Report will add version control and several other columns to any table it works with.
20:09 < elnino> you mean sql form... I was under the impress that SQL report is a "display data only"
20:10 < elnino> ... right? or am i messed up?
20:10 < perlDreamer> I don't know about the messed up part :)
20:10 < perlDreamer> Just incorrect as to the SQL Report
20:11 < perlDreamer> SQL Report will do dynamic data display using forms that you build yourself
20:11 < elnino> right
20:11 < perlDreamer> SQL Form will do dynamic input and display using forms that it helps build
20:11 < perlDreamer> and you're right, I mistyped earlier
20:12 < elnino> OK  Thanks. I'm followign you now. I appreciate your input! 
20:14 < perlDreamer> I'm curious.  What do you have to display that the SQL Report won't handle?
20:16 < elnino> oh. I had to take a zip code, and calculate proximity and produce data from that criteria, and the display portion had to reformat incorrectly formated urls and check for existance of images and stuff. It was long ago and painful.
20:18 < perlDreamer> yeah, that's definitely macro work
20:19 < elnino> thanks again, perlDreamer, it's llunch time.  bye.
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20:36 < perlDreamer> crap
20:36 < perlDreamer> One step closer to Test::Class
20:39 <@preaction> is it really that bad? ;)
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20:40 < perlDreamer> No, I just don't want to spend all that time refactoring tests
20:40 < perlDreamer> but I'm sick and very tired of setup code buggering up my test scripts
20:40 < perlDreamer> and needing the same asset, user and group setup code in multiple places
20:41 <@preaction> amen to that
20:41 < perlDreamer> Maybe it's time now
20:41 <@preaction> want that branch then?
20:41 < perlDreamer> yes please
20:42 <@preaction> k, 5-10 minutes, gotta find out how bad i keep screwing myself by forgetting i have 10-hour processes running in an ssh session without nohup
20:42 <@preaction> then closing my computer down :p
20:42 < perlDreamer> you should use screen
20:43 < perlDreamer> it will fix all that kind of stuff
20:43 <@preaction> i should. i should make it a required install on all plainblack servers
20:43 < perlDreamer> yes!
20:43 < perlDreamer> Actually, I can't think of any PB server I've been on without it
20:43 < perlDreamer> it's standard with RHEL
20:43 <@preaction> plus i usually put "screen -RR && exit" in my .login so i'm always in screen when i login ;)
20:44 <@preaction> that's what i do at home at least, doubt people around here would want to be forced to deal with screen
20:48 < perlDreamer> hm
20:48 < perlDreamer> maybe it's not so bad after all
20:49 < perlDreamer> rizen: I'd like to add another module to the core, Test::Class.  How many organs will that cost?
20:50 <@preaction> they're all gone right now, out to lunch. i'm alone in JT's house. imho the obvious benefits outweigh any possible costs: even easier test writing is good for everyone. just the fact of implementing Test::Class will improve our coverage (due to inheritence). it's the Right Thing To Do
20:51 <@preaction> wait. JT's IRC client pings him when JT is said?
20:51 <@preaction> rofl, it DOES
20:51 <@preaction> note to self: saying JT will make his computer make noise, just as rizen will ;)
20:52 < perlDreamer> Did they go to Teddy Wedgers?
20:53 <@preaction> couldn't tell ya. i slept in (slept 2 hours instead of 1 hour) so i got here late, caused a ruckus, and ate on the car ride here
20:53 < perlDreamer> I'm not sure if I agree with the coverage argument.  Devel::Cover covers lines of code, so testing a parent and child class that inherits tests the same code (parent) twice.
20:53 < perlDreamer> but it makes sure that the inheritance is set up correctly
20:54 < perlDreamer> which our current tests don't do
20:54 < perlDreamer> but I agree about it being the right thing to do
20:55 < perlDreamer> Maybe he'd open a franchise store in Hillsboro
20:55 < perlDreamer> all we have here is Scottish pasties, and they're a plate lunch
20:56 <@preaction> is it like a pot pie?
20:56 <@preaction> those crazy english meat pies?
20:56 < perlDreamer> yeah, only with no gravy inside
20:56 < perlDreamer> You haven't had one yet?
20:56 <@preaction> nope
20:57 < perlDreamer> Here, I'll give you directions
20:57 <@preaction> sounds like something my gf's grandmother made though, she put hamburger and sauerkraut in it
20:57 < perlDreamer> Go out the front door, turn right
20:57 < perlDreamer> to the first intersection, turn left and go down the street past the Church
20:58 < perlDreamer> When you get to the capitol, walk clockwise around the block
20:58 < perlDreamer> It should be on the other side from where you enter, on the outside of the circle
20:58 < perlDreamer> Buy two, and ship me the other
20:59 < perlDreamer> No sauerkraut, they're more like calzones with meat and vegetable/cheese fillings
21:00 <@preaction> that sounds like something i could get the gf to eat. must find a recipe and make some
21:01 <@preaction> (she's a rather picky eater, which frustrates me to no end since I love experimenting in the kitchen)
21:01  * perlDreamer heads off to the gym, and dreams of TeddyWedgers
21:01 <@preaction> keep dreamin, pal
21:01 <@preaction> have fun
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21:08 < perlmonkey2> Can anyone here tell me if 512kbps is good enough upload speed to run a home server with perhaps a little bit of media (I'm thinking of switching my home service to a small business plan that allows servers in the TOS).
21:09 < perlmonkey2> If I use my home server too often I trigger a port block on 81 and 443, and I've been using my home machine as a test box and keep triggering their "don't use residential as commercial" script
21:09 <@preaction> depends on what you plan on doing. i have 376kbps upstream, i just dont do much on the internet. lucky for me, my ISP doesn't give a rat's what i do. I even got them to stop firewalling me
21:10 <@preaction> just need to get them to allow me to control the reverse DNS for my IP and i'm allllll set
21:10 < perlmonkey2> preaction: "don't do much on the internet".  what does that mean?  You don't serve a lot of content, or don't download a lot of content?
21:11 <@preaction> otherwise, 512 sounds fine, just don't pay through the nose if you can shop around for a better deal on a less restrictive connection
21:11 <@preaction> i don't serve much high-bandwidth content to the internet
21:11 < perlmonkey2> Looks like for $80/month I can get 5 static ips, dns serving, TOS says I can run servers, and no blocked ports.
21:11 < perlmonkey2> at 512 up and 7Mbps down.
21:12 <@preaction> where? from who? where do you live again?
21:12 < perlmonkey2> I pay $60 now for 16Mbps down and 1Mbps up, but 25, 80, 8080 are blocked and if they see to much outside traffic on any other port, they block it.
21:12 <@preaction> i pay $50 (DSL + phone) for 1.5m/376k
21:12 < perlmonkey2> preaction: Oklahoma city.
21:12 < perlmonkey2> preaction: But is that a static line with servers explicity allowed?
21:13 <@preaction> no, they aren't explicitly allowed since my ISP doesn't care. static IP and if you ask for "bridged mode" you control everything the connection does
21:13 < perlmonkey2> preaction: you must live in a non-metro area with a smaller name hoster....
21:14 <@preaction> basically
21:14 <@preaction> SLTC (Small Local Telephone Company)
21:14 < perlmonkey2> preaction: I have a friend who lives in the sticks and has *much* better TOS on his connection than I could pay for.
21:15 <@preaction> right, but i couldn't get the speed of the connection you described unless i paid $300 a month for Time Warner cable
21:15 <@preaction> they have a "business plan" which sounds worse than anything i've ever heard
21:16 < perlmonkey2> I only use the 16Mbps down twice a year.....when a fedora release comes out.
21:16 < perlmonkey2> otherwise I don't view much video and only download a few songs from amazon every blue moon.
21:16 <@preaction> oh, then the $80 sounds like a good idea
21:16 < perlmonkey2> so 7mbps would be fine for m.e
21:17 < perlmonkey2> but, back of envelope, to serve a 5MB image at 512kbps would take like 80 seconds.
21:17 < perlmonkey2> 64KB/s :(
21:18 <@preaction> it's the nature of the beast, internet wasn't built full-duplex, it was built producer-to-consumer. 
21:18 <@preaction> nobody realized that it would evolve into this: everyone's a producer
21:19 < ckotil> yah, its too bad.
21:19 < perlmonkey2> they didn't want it to evolve that way.  The late 90's showed all the big ISP's trying to produce all the content so the sheeple would have to consume directly form them.
21:19 < perlmonkey2> luckily they sucked
21:20 < ckotil> aol and prodigy are the only two i can think of right now. wasn there another big one, compu-something?
21:21 < perlmonkey2> compuserv?
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21:22 <@preaction> compuserve, yeah.
21:23 <@preaction> in the end, iirc, compuserve and prodigy tried to merge to take on AOL, but then (at least in my area) the small ISPs that offered ISDN and DSL took over. and when cable came it was all over for AOL
21:24 < perlmonkey2> Yeah, cable just can't be competed with.  
21:25 < perlmonkey2> Around here every time ATT drops their DSL prices, Cox matches their price with twice the bandwidth.
21:31 <@preaction> there are certain operations that, when run from a browser, take a long time and time-out (and then stop running)
21:32 <@preaction> do you think some sort of hook in spectre would work to change that? delay the execution but run it through spectre (which won't time-out, hopefully)
21:33 <@preaction> i mean, huge version tags with lots of storage locations will take 10 minutes + to delete
21:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: jt * r5275 /branch/colin-experimental: Created colin's branch. Only colin is allowed to commit to this branch. May he use this branch to bring swift death to his foes.
22:31 < perlDreamer> kaplah!
22:32 < perlDreamer> thanks, rizen
22:32 < perlDreamer> Even if you did go to TeddyWedger's without me :(
22:32 <@rizen> nope
22:32 <@rizen> mekongs
22:32 <@rizen> or did you mean some other day?
22:32 < perlDreamer> No, I meant today
22:32 < perlDreamer> What is a mekongs?
22:33 <@rizen> cuz then i've been to casbah and a bunch of other places without you as well
22:33 <@rizen> mekongs is this vietnameese place by my house that rules
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22:34 <@rizen> but you've been here, you know that there are basically 100+ amazing restaurants within walking distance of my house
22:34 < perlDreamer> Yes
22:34 <@preaction> main reason i want to move here :p
22:34 <@khenn> apeiron wants to move here as well
22:35 < perlDreamer> I thought khenn lived in a different here than rizen, et. al.
22:35 <@khenn> only the cool people live in the Madison area
22:35 <@khenn> I live only 30 minutes from Madison
22:35 <@khenn> just about a suburb =p
22:36 <@preaction> laugh. calling Janesville a suburb :p
22:37 < BartJol> delft is also nice
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22:45 <@rizen> delft is pretty nice
22:45 <@rizen> but if i moved to holland i'd probably go to amsterdam
22:45 < BartJol> what?!
22:45 <@rizen> been to both, but liked the hustle and bustle of amsterdam more
22:45 <@rizen> delft was a little too laid back for me
22:46 < BartJol> yeah, ok
22:46 < BartJol> but now I'm doubting whether I allow you to sleep on my couch
22:46 < BartJol> dissing Delft, shame yourself
22:46 < BartJol> :)
22:47 < BartJol> but you're right, it's a bit of a suburb
22:47 <@rizen> you'd let me have your couch
22:47 < BartJol> and there is no red light district in Delft
22:47 <@rizen> if nothing else i can call in the iou you left when you used my couch =)
22:48 < BartJol> well, if a plan to buy another anyway
22:48 < BartJol> but mine is a bit smaller
22:49 < BartJol> but finally i managed to install wre and webgui today, victory!
22:49 < BartJol> i should feel ashamed, for not being enough nerd
22:50 < perlDreamer> no, you should be proud of yourself that you're learning
22:51 < BartJol> yeah, now the next step, programming a macro or something like that
22:51 < perlDreamer> you could write a test, too
22:51 < perlDreamer> much easier than writing a macro
22:52 < BartJol> ah
22:52  * perlDreamer goes to a meeting. grrr
22:52 < BartJol> what kind of test?
22:53 < BartJol> oh, bye colin
22:57 < perlDreamer> on second thought, write a macro, then I'll teach you how to test it
22:57 < perlDreamer> that would be even better
22:58 < BartJol> ooh, sounds nice
22:59 < BartJol> there was some topic on a kind of addKarma function, so I was thinking of writing something for that
23:01 <@apeiron> Macros are easy. If you can do HTML, you can do macros. :)
23:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI: chrisn * r5276 /wrebuild/wre/lib/WRE/Spectre.pm: 
23:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI: WRE::Spectre::getPriorities was processing the report data incorrectly, causing
23:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI: false positives. Fix this. Lesson of the day: Don't Be Clever. (PBP pg. 453)
23:03 < BartJol> well a bit of html is not out of my limits
23:05 < BartJol> I was talking about http://www.plainblack.com/etcetera/website-referral-program#rcI4lRnABODsdixksvxf0g
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23:48 <@rizen> perlDreamer, you're giving yourself more work?
23:48 <@rizen> are you crazy?
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23:50 < BartJol> hi Mr
23:50 <+MrHairgrease> bart!
23:51 < BartJol> yeah that's me
23:51 <+MrHairgrease> i know
23:52 < BartJol> working tomorrow?
23:52 <+MrHairgrease> yes
23:52 < BartJol> gezellig
23:52 <+MrHairgrease> beer tomorrow?
23:53 < BartJol> yes
23:53 <+MrHairgrease> gezellig
23:53 < BartJol> to celebrate my first wegbgui install
23:53  * MrHairgrease starts practicing for tomorrow already
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00:50 < nuba> the only difference between http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/wobject/asset-migration-guide and porting-wobjects-to-webgui-version-7 is that titles are numbered in the former
00:52 < BartJol> mm I saw something strange, might be a caching problem, but I refreshed a couple of times and cleared the cache
00:52 < BartJol> in 7.4.20-> admin console-> users->profile
00:53 < BartJol> the option button browse for a photo is in dutch
00:55 < BartJol> and everything else is in english
00:55 < BartJol> the text is "Bladeren"
00:55 < BartJol> but in i18n, cat * |grep Bladeren doesn't show anything
00:56 < nuba> looks like the dutch are invading webgui surreptitiously
00:56 < BartJol> I did install the dutch package
00:57 < BartJol> yeah, Koen want to take over PB since JT got more results while googling themselves
00:57 < nuba> did you find any beer when you opened the package?
00:58 < BartJol> well, there is some next to my laptop and some in my stomach
00:58 <+MrHairgrease> bart try `grep -R laderen *` from the lib dir
00:59 < BartJol> it's thinking
01:05 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []
01:07 < BartJol> well, looks ok, probably the caching anyway
01:08 < BartJol> will look again tomorrow
01:09 < BartJol> well, going to sleep
01:09 < BartJol> bye
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01:38 < metanil> currently i cannot send and receive mail within WebGUI. any links that discuss about this?
01:39 < metanil> i think i need to create smtp server on my machine.
01:53 < metanil> i've got  main::[[undef]] - Couldn't connect to mail server: localhost error in webgui.log
02:13 < perlDreamer> rizen: BartJol is part of the Dutch team.  He's like family.  I'll teach him testing.
02:13 < perlDreamer> or were you talking about someting else?
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02:35 < metanil> why "photo gallery" and "request tracker" assets redirected to Collaboration System?
02:37 < metanil> wiki says its content prototyping
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02:46 < perlDreamer> metanil, those are content prototypes, specially preconfigured Collaboaration Systems that are setup as a Photo Gallery and Request Tracker
02:46 <+Radix-wrk> the collaboration system is incredibly flexible - so it's used for several things - just using different templates.
02:47 < metanil> hmm.. i am exploring it.. 
02:47 <+Radix-wrk> Yeah, as PD said, they're prototypes
02:47 <+Radix-wrk> you can create your own prototypes too - I have one in my system called Flash Gallery that I've set up using my own custom template
02:48 < metanil> have link?
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02:48 <+Radix-wrk> link?
02:48 <+Radix-wrk> I haven't shared it as it's kinda specific to how we do things
02:49 < metanil> oh.. thats ok
02:49 <+Radix-wrk> our webserver has a small internet link, so we tend to use a us host to store all of our larger files/data/downloads on
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02:50 <+Radix-wrk> So I created a flash gallery template that expects the files to be in a certain location on our remote server :)
02:50 < metanil> thats ok .. just want to see other prototypes
02:50 <+Radix-wrk> http://www.formsys.com/maxsurf/videos
02:51 <+Radix-wrk> that's an example of it in use if you wanted to see it
02:52 <+Radix-wrk> it works great - as our developers can easily create flash movies of our software and just upload it and describe it and don't have to worry about the html/flash side of things
02:52 <+Radix-wrk> we use it all the time now to show off new features and as part of our online training videos
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02:55 <+Radix-wrk> the nice thing about that template is it has all the styling embedded into it.. two tone colouring, picture borders and drop shadowing, play button, etc
02:58 <+Radix-wrk> templating is where webgui really shows it's flexibility and power imho :)
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02:59 <+Radix-wrk> whoah.. party in the WG house.. everyone's on tonight!
02:59 <+Radix-wrk> just need PD and you'll have a who's who of webgui online :)
03:08 < metanil> great!
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03:58 < metanil> why its not showing the security tab (while editing article) even i'm in Admin group??
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04:34 < metanil> I cannot see security tab while editing page layout.. actually i change the owner of that pagelayout to current users... is this a problem?
04:43 < perlmonkey2> bah, all these PHP CMS's tick me off.
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05:08 < metanil> anybody know how to change the rank of asset in asset manager?
05:15 < metanil> oops.. we can do it easily by drag n drop.. 
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15:58 < SDuensin> Morning.
15:59 < AMH_bob> Indeed.
16:00 < SDuensin> At least it's FRIDAY morning!
16:07 <+Radix_> for you maybe :)
16:07 <+Radix_> Friday is almost over here ;)
16:07 < SDuensin> hehe
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16:23 <+MrHairgrease> I must be suffering from friday afternoon brainlessness
16:23 <+MrHairgrease> but I try to add a field to the edit func of a custom asset
16:23 <+MrHairgrease> but for some reason i don't get it to work
16:23 <+MrHairgrease> here it is: http://webgui.pastebin.com/m3d855703
16:24 <+MrHairgrease> I've done this a million time before but it just won't show up this time
16:24 <+MrHairgrease> no errors or whatever
16:24 <+MrHairgrease> the readOnly field just doesn't show up
16:24 <+MrHairgrease> anybody an idea?
16:24 < SDuensin> Sure you're editing in the right place?  I do that a lot - edit in a backup copy or a test directory and not my live file.
16:25 <+MrHairgrease> yes
16:25 <+MrHairgrease> positive
16:26 < SDuensin> That's all I got.  :-(
16:26  * SDuensin isn't a WebGUI API guy.
16:26 <+MrHairgrease> I am
16:26 <+MrHairgrease> that's the worst part
16:26 <+MrHairgrease> I must be screwing something up
16:26 < SDuensin> hehehe
16:27 <+MrHairgrease> but I just cannot find it
16:29 < nuba> restarted apache, or using Apache2::Reload ?
16:30 <+MrHairgrease> yes
16:32 < nuba> could it be missing the -name ?
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16:33 <+MrHairgrease> no
16:33 <+MrHairgrease> but i know what's wrong now
16:33 <+MrHairgrease> and I suck
16:33 <+MrHairgrease> Subroutine getEditForm redefined at ....
16:33  * MrHairgrease is banging his head againt the wall
16:34 < nuba> heh
16:34 <+MrHairgrease> it is not funny!!!!
16:34 <+MrHairgrease> =)
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16:53 < GeeKinpuT> hello everyone!!!
16:55 <+MrHairgrease> hi geekinput
16:55 < GeeKinpuT> I just installed CentOS and I'm on the firewall screen, and I was wondering if I have to pick www(http) from the trusted services in order to run WebGUI or any other service.
16:56 <+MrHairgrease> if you want to use webgui you should obviously open port 80
16:57 <+MrHairgrease> the wre also uses port 81 and 3306
16:57 <+MrHairgrease> but connects to those through localhost
16:57 < GeeKinpuT> so I don't have to pick anything but the www service?
16:58 < GeeKinpuT> do i have to have MySQL and mod_perl previously installed, or do they get added with WRE?
16:59 <+MrHairgrease> the wre includes them
16:59 < GeeKinpuT> 10-4
16:59 < GeeKinpuT> thanks
16:59 <+MrHairgrease> you cannot hgave another mysql on the box you run the wre on
16:59 <+MrHairgrease> also you cannot have an apache on either port 80 and 81
17:00 <+MrHairgrease> it's in the docs if I'm correct
17:00 <+MrHairgrease> in /data/wre/docs/install.txt
17:00 <+MrHairgrease> or something like that
17:00 < GeeKinpuT> so pretty much I don't need to have neither apache, mysql or perl installed on the box because the are included with WRE, right?
17:01 <+Radix_> yup
17:01 <+MrHairgrease> you can have perl installed
17:01 <+Radix_> don't need it tho
17:01 <+MrHairgrease> depends on your distro
17:01 <+MrHairgrease> ubuntu debian need perl to do packagemanagement and other admin tasks
17:02 <+MrHairgrease> dunno if the same applies to centos though
17:02 <+Radix_> yeah, I think it's hard to avoid perl with centos too, but don't need it by default
17:02 < GeeKinpuT> cool, thanks.
17:02 < GeeKinpuT> C YA
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17:03 <+Radix_> i noticed that the wre is configured to use port 80 and 8081 now too
17:03 <+MrHairgrease> oh
17:03 <+Radix_> at least the wre-source is
17:03 <+MrHairgrease> ok
17:03 <+Radix_> that's what the new wre console uses by default
17:03 <+MrHairgrease> in that case it's 80, 8081 and 3306
17:04 <+Radix_> you can pick which ports you want to run them on tho
17:04 <+MrHairgrease> the wreconsole uses 60834
17:04 <+MrHairgrease> by default
17:04 <+Radix_> I set mine to 80/81 just because it was familiar :)
17:04 <+Radix_> and configured the distro version of apache (with php, etc) to run on port 82 :)
17:05 <+MrHairgrease> yeah i did somethiong similar
17:05 <+MrHairgrease> because I needed a php apache too
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17:37 <+MrHairgrease> does anybody know the speed difference between template toolkit and html::template?
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17:46 < ckotil> pretty sure template toolkit is more advanced and allows you to do more
17:46 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
17:46 < ckotil> more what i dont really know. havent played with it yet
17:46 <+MrHairgrease> but is it much slower
17:46 <+MrHairgrease> oh ok
17:46 <+MrHairgrease> me neither
17:46 < ckotil> im pushing h:t:e as far as it can go right now.
17:46 < ckotil> might have to switch to tt soon
17:47 <+MrHairgrease> i'm still using h::t exclusively
17:47 <+MrHairgrease> but it's a pain
17:47 < ckotil> i bet.
17:47 <+MrHairgrease> in some cases
17:50 < ckotil> i had to do some qwirky things such as make a link a differnet color if it pointed to something that was only viewable by a certain group.
17:50 < ckotil> had to ues h:t:e
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18:36 < teflond0n> anyone here using mac osX for their install base
18:36 < perlDreamer> wG is developed on Mac OS X
18:36 < teflond0n> I
18:36 < teflond0n> I'm having permissions issues on the upload folder
18:36 < teflond0n> sometimes the uploads work - others they dont
18:37 < perlDreamer> have you checked the permissions of the folder and all subfolders?
18:37 < teflond0n> what I need to know is what should the permissions be set for the uploads folder
18:37 < teflond0n> is there a particular "user/group" that needs certain permissions
18:37 < perlDreamer> yes
18:38 < perlDreamer> it needs to be readable and writable by the same user used by Apache
18:38 < teflond0n> so would that be the WebGUI user?
18:38 < perlDreamer> I don't use the WRE, but I would guess so
18:39 < teflond0n> is there a security risk with giving webgui rwx permissions on the uploads folder?
18:40 < perlDreamer> not really
18:40 < teflond0n> what about the wheel group having rwx permissions
18:41 < nuba> check the first column of "ps auxwww | grep /data/wre/prereqs/apache/bin/httpd" if you use the wre
18:42 < perlDreamer> that sounds like it could be a standard WRE setup.  It's probably explained in the WebGUI Admin book
18:44 < teflond0n> im not seeing an apache folder in /data/wre/prereqs
18:44 < nuba> teflond0n: i have here the wre 0.7.x
18:44 < nuba> its not the latest
18:46 < nuba> you can use this to find exactly what users are being used by apache (modproxy and modperl)
18:46 < nuba> find /data/wre/prereqs/apache/conf -type f  | xargs grep -E '^User'
18:46 < nuba> of course you need to adapth the path to your wre setup
18:53 < nuba> afterwards to ajust the ownership do a chown -R username /data/domains/*/public
18:53 < nuba> again, of course adjusting the username and the path accordingly to your local setup
18:57 < nuba> makes sense ?
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18:59 < nuba> hope he got it before timing out...
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19:09 < perlmonkey2> WebGUI woudln't interfer with apache settings on compressing content would it?
19:10 < perlDreamer> Of course not!
19:10 < perlDreamer> How dare you insinuate that.
19:10 < perlDreamer> Why, is it happening? :)
19:10 < perlmonkey2> I wouldn't have imagined so as the admin would have to change that setting as far as I understand.
19:10 < perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: No, but I'm looking for all the excuses in the world to move my personal net connection to a static connection, but my upstream gets cut in half when I do that.
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22:23 < dionak> quick question about the isInGroup method in User.pm. Will it return true if the user is in a group that is a member of the groupId passed in? 
22:25 < dionak> in other words, parent/child relationships of groups?
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22:27 < elnino> if I do a count of assets of the class "page layout" will that give me the number of pages on my site?
22:27 < elnino> (as a sql query)
22:44 <@preaction> not really. assets don't need page layouts to be a "page"
22:45 < elnino> well. I know we don't have assets as "pages" themselves. So I should be ok. right?
22:46 <@preaction> it will be inaccurate in any case, since "pages" are not really defined in WebGUI
22:46 <@preaction> also, you might want to restrict it to certain sections of the site
22:46 <@preaction> but if it's just a statistic you're looking for, go for it
22:46 <@preaction> all statistics are wrong anyway, but nobody remembers that when they're looking at it
22:47 <@preaction> i mean, each thread in a collab is not part of a page layout, but might be considered a "page" by someone
22:47 < elnino> =)  I'm trying tofigure out how many "pages" we have because alot of these 'free indexes" limit it to 500 pages, and I think we're close.
22:48 < elnino> hmm. forgot about those threads.
22:49 < elnino> I should have said that we don't use "article assets" as pages. so I'm thinking if I count page layouts, threads, I should be close.
22:53 <@preaction> Events for calendars too
22:53 <@preaction> and etc... 
22:54 < elnino> oh geez. thanks!  sneaky little assets.  I appreciate your input!
22:54 <@preaction> if you're going for Search Engine Optimization, you may as well stop now. most of it is snake-oil except the part where it comes to implementing the w3c standards and using semantic markup
22:55 < elnino> don't tell that to my mktg person. The seo consultant has been already hired...
22:55 <@preaction> i wish i could be an SEO consultant, they make so much money for doing nothing
22:56 <@preaction> put a stupid link farm on the site, which ends up depressing the Page Rank
22:56 < elnino> =)
22:56 < elnino> my thoughts exactly.
22:57 <@preaction> oh, and yell at your designers for not being semantic
22:58 <@preaction> do stupid things with headline tags, like use h3 for paragraphs, because h3 is "more important to search engines"
22:58 <@rizen> dionak: yes
22:59 < elnino> got that one covered. I insisted that they *didn't* give me the html. I recreated their "design" myself.  
23:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI: chrisn * r5277 /WebGUI/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt: Fix Freudian slip in widget entry: s/templatize/widgetize/
23:07 <@apeiron> http://www.frozen-perl.org/mpw2008/schedule <-- can I have a clone for that day so I can go to both tracks?
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23:09 < elnino_> I'm trying to implement the Sitemap thingy on our site, and according to the wiki there is a macro called LastModifiedPage. I don't have this, is this a newer macro? I'm using 7.22.* somthing or other.
23:11 <@preaction> it's just called LastModified
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23:12 < dionak> rizen: thanks. 
23:12 < elnino_> Thatn's what I thought. And afer I "fixed" he wiki, I realized that in her example, she is passsing in thhe url - which is not a parameter for the distributed "LastModified" macro that I'm accusom to.
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23:57 < perlmonkey2> dang, I really need another dev to bounce ideas off of (I'm the only dev at my work).  For the JS side of the survey system, each object was responsible for changing all its display characteristics and then clearing what came before.  This turned into a mess.  Duh, have a display manager that takes a request for display, then tells the requester to display itself and whatever was displayed before to clear itself.  One central singleton f
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05:01 <@preaction> anyone here think of any features they'd want in an IRC bot in this channel? i've already thought of RSS Notification (for webgui news, plainblack news). bug and rfe searching. wiki searching (for the webgui help wiki)
05:03 <+Radix_> message delivery for offline users?
05:03 <@preaction> you can do that already with memoserv on this network
05:03 <@preaction> though only for registered users
05:03 <+Radix_> Ahh k
05:04 <+Radix_> I've seen it in other irc servers, not this one tho :)
05:04 <@preaction> i was thinking user lookup if the user's profile was public, but i don't think most people on plainblack/webgui.org realize they (a) have profiles (b) have private profiles
05:04 <@preaction> freenode has seenserv, which i've only seen here
05:04 <@preaction> you can message seenserv seen "nickname" and it will tell you the last time the user was on the network
05:05 <+Radix_> yeah
05:05 <+Radix_> Well the features you've proposed are great to me
05:05 <@preaction> might add SVN / repo log polling, so we can get rid of CIA-20 (since it's completely out of our control)
05:06 <@preaction> but CIA-20 does increase exposure for webgui (since it's yet another site the project is registered on)
05:06 <@preaction> oh, i want to add "dig <domain> [@host]" so that we can lookup DNS, and other networking troubleshooting issues
05:07 <+Radix_> sounds good
05:07 <@preaction> might try to do something like "wg info <domain>" to get information about someone's site, like what version of WebGUI, what version of apache, etc...
05:08 <@preaction> we should add something about the WRE in the WRE's apache's ServerTokens
05:08 <+Radix_> awesome
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08:27 < metanil> can't we add individual description per image within a Photo gallery. (not just description for group of images).?
09:14 <@preaction> you could make a single post per image, but there's a better way to make a photo gallery: Image assets inside of a Folder. use the "synopsis" field of the Image to make a description
09:15 <@preaction> metanil, of course, there's a proper Gallery asset coming up in 7.5.0, but you'll be able to migrate your stuff from either the "Photo Gallery" (which is a collaboration system actually) or the Folder w/ Images i just described
09:31 < ckotil> nice.
09:32 < ckotil> ive done a simlliar thing w/ the folder asset turning it into a 'file reposity'
09:36 <@preaction> yeah, Gallery will eventually replace that (since Gallery allows more controls over normal users, plus comments, plus a better programming API)
09:37 < ckotil> yeah? sweet. think it could work as a file repository too?
09:38 <@preaction> yes, that's the idea
09:39 <@preaction> that's why it's not called Photo Gallery asset. it will be for files, movies, flash, images, etc...
09:40 <@preaction> i wonder how the Slideshow will be implemented with Flash (but i'm excited at the prospect of having both Flickr AND YouTube with the same Gallery asset)
09:40 <@preaction> slideshow == playlist. users can use the "make shortcut" feature to create their own playlists (for a youtube-style site)
09:40 <@preaction> if someone can do what Viddler did and integrate the comments feature right into the flash player itself, that would be awesome
09:41 < ckotil> sounds awsome.
09:42 < ckotil> im off to bed. night.
10:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI: doug * r5278 /WebGUI/ (5 files in 4 dirs): 
10:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI: fix: Mails sent from WebGUI now wrap at 78 characters to prevent a problem with
10:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI: SMTP servers that do not accept lines longer than 998 characters. This is per
10:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI: the SMTP RFCs. Added testing for this fix, still much to test for
10:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI: WebGUI::Mail::Send. Added API method to facilitate testing.
10:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI: doug * r5279 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (5 files in 4 dirs): backport 5278
10:06 <@preaction> ok, that is far too much spam... imma make a better bot for that
10:18 < CIA-20> WebGUI: doug * r5280 /WebGUI/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt: change attribution for bug report
10:24 < metanil> thanks preaction.
14:04 < CIA-20> WebGUI: doug * r5281 /branch/doug-experimental/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Nightly checkin because you forgot
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21:34 < perlmonkey2> So quiet
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22:30 < perlmonkey2> Very quiet.
22:35 <+perlDreamer> sssh, I'm trying to concentrate
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22:45 < perlmonkey2> heh
23:34  * perlmonkey2 just finished his 4th rewrite of the sections and questions handlers for the survey system.  But I think I've finally found a paradigm I like.  Writing good clean JS is harder than I thought.
23:36 < perlmonkey2> Anyone interested in looking at it now, here's the link: http://www.lostokies.com:81/javascript/editsurvey.js  Drag and drop are active but don't reorder yet.  Sections don't open and close their questions yet.  And you can't add answers.  But hopefully that will all change in a few hours now that I can stop repeating my work.
23:36 <+perlDreamer> yeah, why didn't someone think of integrating perl into the browser 10 years ago?
23:37 < perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: That would be incredible.  I sometimes here on #perl6 that perl6 might live in a parrot-clientside interperter
23:37 < perlmonkey2> s/here/hear/
23:38 <+perlDreamer> perl6 will be in a parrot interpreter.  Do you mean that there will be a browser plugin for parrot?
23:39 < perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: I'm not sure it is a plugin, but integrated into mozilla products which could force it into IE.
23:39 < perlmonkey2> since parrot will execute JS, Python, etc.  
23:39 < perlmonkey2> it could replace the JS engine.
23:39 <+perlDreamer> sweet
23:40 < perlmonkey2> more than mere words can describe.
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02:51 < beginwebgui> hello people
02:53 < beginwebgui> i want to show all users profiles on the site. Where should i start as i am beginner to webgui. Do i have to create marcro.. or template variable. However, i can change Operation/User.pm to return the profile. But how can i get them from the website and display??
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05:24 < beginwebgui> hello people
05:24 < beginwebgui> i want to show all users profiles on the site. Where should i start as i am beginner to webgui. Do i have to create marcro.. or template variable. However, i can change Operation/User.pm to return the profile. But how can i get them from the website and display??
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05:40 < beginwebgui> i have created a macro which will query the database and return formatted(HTML) results. Couldn't i use this macro in the description of an article asset?. I could use this macro in template but i just want this in a article/"page layout".
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17:06 < Syn2> oi
17:07 < Syn2> the WRE rocks!
17:07 < Syn2> sky high
17:08 <@preaction> amen
17:08  * preaction &
17:11 < Syn2> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m314b0924
17:11 < Syn2> does that sound familiar?
17:14 <+MrHairgrease> koen what server is that?
17:15 < Syn2> that is a new virtual server
17:15 < Syn2> with wre 0.8.1
17:15 < Syn2> and webgui 7.4.20
17:15 <+MrHairgrease> i know it's related to a bug i found some moths ago
17:15 <+MrHairgrease> months
17:16 <+MrHairgrease> and that looks like error code i built in
17:16 < Syn2> ah
17:16 <+MrHairgrease> i guess it comes from the patch i attached to the report
17:17 <+MrHairgrease> dunno what causes it though
17:17 <+MrHairgrease> i'm pretty sure i knew it
17:17 <+MrHairgrease> but i forgot
17:17 < Syn2> hmm
17:18 < Syn2> do you know what bug it was?
17:18 <+MrHairgrease> just grep the source code for Group->new
17:18 <+MrHairgrease> the bug was that wg::group just ignored the fact that the group did not exist
17:18 < Syn2> ah
17:18 <+MrHairgrease> and just let you do stuff on non-existant groups
17:18 <+MrHairgrease> which is bad
17:18 < Syn2> true
17:19 <+MrHairgrease> since it did screw something up indirectly
17:19 < Syn2> and that bug was fixed in which version?
17:19 <+MrHairgrease> 7.4.something
17:21 <+MrHairgrease> if it happens the code triggering it should handle it
17:21 <+MrHairgrease> if it doesn't you'll know because now it returns undef
17:21 <+MrHairgrease> which causes a fatal error if you don't handle it
17:22 <+MrHairgrease> since you cannot excute methods on undefined vars
17:22 <+MrHairgrease> but now i gotta  get groceries before the store closes
17:23 < Syn2> the code is in WebGUI/Group.pm
17:23 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
17:23 <+MrHairgrease> it was added ion rev 4733
17:23 <+MrHairgrease> by graham
17:23 < Syn2> ah
17:23 < Syn2> hmm
17:28 < Syn2> the strange thing is..
17:28 < Syn2> I cannot find out where Ln8bEGAqHJpOmoqQF7OfNw is coming from
17:28 <+MrHairgrease> of course b/c it does not exist
17:28 < Syn2> its not in  select groupId from groups;
17:29 < Syn2> I don't get it
17:29 <+MrHairgrease> Ln8bEGAqHJpOmoqQF7OfNw is a non-existant groupId
17:29 < Syn2> WebGUI has to get that id from somewhere
17:29 <+MrHairgrease> hence the rror
17:30 <+MrHairgrease> that can come from a lot of places
17:30 < Syn2> it adds a line to the log every time I visit a page on that site
17:30 < Syn2> webgui.procolix.com
17:30 <+MrHairgrease> aha
17:30 <+MrHairgrease> each time with adifferent id?
17:30 < Syn2> nope
17:30 < Syn2> the same each time
17:30 < Syn2> over and over again
17:31 < Syn2> I guess it has something to do with importing packages
17:31 <+MrHairgrease> it's probably the subscription groupId of a collaboration system
17:32 < Syn2> but there are no collaboration systems on that site
17:32 <+MrHairgrease> or an asset with viewgroup id set to that
17:32 <+MrHairgrease> try something like this
17:33 <+MrHairgrease> select assetId from assetData where groupIdView = 'Ln8bEGAqHJpOmoqQF7OfNw'
17:33 < Syn2> ok
17:33 < Syn2> hang on
17:33 < Syn2> http://webgui.pastebin.com/d72579e17
17:33 < Syn2> indeed
17:34 < Syn2> quite some lines found
17:34 <+MrHairgrease> so what has happened is this
17:34 <+MrHairgrease> you had some group with that group id
17:34 < Syn2> in the old site
17:34 < Syn2> probably
17:34 <+MrHairgrease> and set the view group of a number oif assets to it
17:34 < Syn2> indeed
17:34 < Syn2> and I imported them
17:34 <+MrHairgrease> then at some time you deleted that group
17:34 < Syn2> from a package
17:35 <+MrHairgrease> oh
17:35 <+MrHairgrease> yeah that must be it in your case
17:35 < Syn2> and the package import doesn't reset the permissions
17:35 <+MrHairgrease> reset to what
17:35 < Syn2> would you consider that a bug in the package import?
17:35 <+MrHairgrease> no
17:35 < Syn2> reset to a 'default' group
17:35 <+MrHairgrease> b/c there's no way for the import system to know what that default group is
17:36 <+MrHairgrease> after import
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17:36 <+MrHairgrease> just do a edeit branch
17:36 < Syn2> that I understand
17:36 <+MrHairgrease> and set em yourself
17:36 < Syn2> I will
17:36 <+MrHairgrease> you could make it an rfe i guess
17:36 < Syn2> indeed
17:36 <+MrHairgrease> to let the imported asset inherit the perms of their prent asset
17:36 < Syn2> an rfe for: warn for non-existant groups when importing
17:36 <+MrHairgrease> if you wanna know for sure if it's a bug
17:37 < Syn2> or inherit the perms of the parent indeed
17:37 <+MrHairgrease> ask the pb guys
17:37 < Syn2> :)
17:37 < Syn2> ok
17:37 < Syn2> the fastest way for that is just to submit a bug report
17:37 <+MrHairgrease> heh
17:37 <+MrHairgrease> but i'm ging to the stre now
17:37 < Syn2> if it isn't considered a bug the bug report will be closed
17:37 <+MrHairgrease> later
17:37 < Syn2> okie
17:37 < Syn2> later
17:37 -!- MrHairgrease is now known as MrAfkGrease
18:04 < Syn2> http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/let-package-import-inherit-permissions
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19:08 < Syn2> ah
19:08 < Syn2> re
19:09 <+MrHairgrease> re?
19:09 < Syn2> re=hallo again
19:10 <+MrHairgrease> are you on drugs again?
19:10 < Syn2> if you'd call potter's drugs
19:10 < Syn2> then yes
19:10 <+MrHairgrease> I'm on pan tostado's
19:11 < Syn2> I went to the emergency exit yesterday
19:11 <+MrHairgrease> much better
19:11 <+MrHairgrease> oh crap
19:11 <+MrHairgrease> forgot about that
19:11 < Syn2> it was fabulous!
19:11 <+MrHairgrease> cool
20:17 < perlmonkey2> I need help on the WebGUI survey.  On the DOM side, I have a UL full of LI's indexed on their ID.  A section has an id of S# and a question has an id of Q#.  Functionally, sections and questions are objects.  A section has an array of questions which belong to it (In the DOM, their LI occurs directly below the section's LI.  The problem is how best to map the section's array of questions model to the DOM single list model.
20:18 < perlmonkey2> When you drag a section below another section, the first section should be moved below the last question of the second section, and all the first section's questions should also be moved in order.  
20:19 < perlmonkey2> Hah, the programmers stone is right.  Just trying to explain the problem provides key insight to the questioner.
20:22 < perlmonkey2> The whole thing is simple  Since a question knows which section it belongs to (When a new question is added, the highlighted section is used, or if no section is highlighted, the last section), when the user drags a section onto a question belonging to another section, simply move that section and all its questions below the last question in the new section.  
20:23 < perlmonkey2> Does anyone have a better way to move these objects than by deleting the existing dom object and creating new ones, appended to the bottom question node?
20:27 < perlmonkey2> So if section A was drug onto question 23 of section B, we would tell section A and all its questions to delete their dom nodes.  Then we would get the last dom node of question B and tell section A to append itself to that node, and all its questions following.  So sections need a method to delete their nodes, then create a new need after a given node.  Then loop through all their questions telling them to append to the node in front of
20:27 < perlmonkey2> hah, I think that will work.
20:31 < perlmonkey2> But now we need to renumber everything......which will be a nightmare since references to other objects are everywhere.  I need to use a different parameter, besides the objects' index, for storing order of presentation.  That way referential integrity isn't forever broken because I can't track down every reference to an id, when the id has to change because everything was reordred.
20:32 < perlmonkey2> So reordering is as simple as after a drag and drop, going from the beginning of the list to the end and updating the order param by adding one to the order param in the previous node.  
20:32 < perlmonkey2> easy
21:29 < Syn2> http://webgui.pastebin.com/ma7ebe24
21:29 < Syn2> wre 0.8.1 error
21:30 < Syn2> ah
21:30 < Syn2> http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/pdf2txt_pl-points-to-non-existing-prereqs/bin/pdf2txt/1 is the same
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14:05 < CIA-20> WebGUI: doug * r5282 /branch/doug-experimental/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Nightly checkin because you forgot
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16:17 < SDuensin> Greetings.
16:19 < BartJol> hi
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16:46  * perlmonkey2 is completely stuck on the survey module.
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16:49 <@preaction> perlmonkey2, being completely stuck is a bad thing
16:50 < perlmonkey2> yes......it sucks.....chased my tail all weekend.
16:51 < perlmonkey2> http://www.lostokies.com:81/tree.html add a few questions and sections then tell me the use cases for dragging them around......
16:52 < perlmonkey2> questions should belong to sections, and sections just contain a header for the survey section plus metadata for how the questions it holds should behave.
16:53 <@preaction> what if some suit decides that asking about a person's demographics should occur first? or asking question about salary should be before asking their age-group
16:54 < perlmonkey2> That's the point of making sections draggable.  If you have demographics section at the end of the survey, but decide to make it first, you can simply drag it to the top.
16:54 < perlmonkey2> and all its questoins will go to the top with it.
16:55 < perlmonkey2> wait....I have a very simple solution.....I'm going to play with tis for a second.  every question and section has a unique id.  Order is completely ignored until submission, where the order everythign is in is recorded.
16:56 < perlmonkey2> Which means I can't have Section 1, I'll just say "Section: sectiontext.substr(1..25)" in the section block.
16:56 < perlmonkey2> not having to track order when the users are dragging and dropping makes it a billion times easier.
16:56 <@preaction> amen to that
16:58 < perlmonkey2> But is that okay?  Won't users like being able to reference "Question 17"
16:58 < perlmonkey2> Instead of "in the second section about 20 questoins in, is the multiple choice asking about widgets"
16:59 <@preaction> but if the survey works right, there are questions they might never see, correct?
16:59 <@preaction> so if the numbering is pre-assigned, they'll wonder about the questions they "missed"
16:59 < perlmonkey2> preaction: The survey taker, yes.
17:00 < perlmonkey2> but this for the survey editor.
17:00 <@preaction> they could both just use the question itself. or if necessary you could assign them a small ID string
17:01 <@preaction> or even keep the numbering, just re-number them each time they're moved around maybe? durno really
17:01 < perlmonkey2> that's what I've been trying.
17:03 < perlmonkey2> hmm.....If I just kept the order info local for each section, then I could have two Questions 1's as long as they were in two seperate sections.
17:03 < perlmonkey2> That would remove the problems I was having of updating every single question's order during a drag and drop.
17:03 <@preaction> ah. so S1Q1 and S2Q1
17:04 < perlmonkey2> Bah, the problem is these things take like 2-4 hours to implement in code, until I realize the paradigm is too complex to be really viable.
17:05 < perlmonkey2> But I like that......It means I only have to update order in the local section (or two sections if the question is drug to another section).  but it limits the scope of the effects on the rest of the survey.
17:06 <@preaction> btw, your UI is beautiful and intuitive
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17:11 < perlmonkey2> preaction: You are the first person to say it looks nice....thank you very much.
17:12 < wgGuest53> Hi!  Is this the place to ask questions?
17:12 < perlmonkey2> yes
17:12 <@preaction> just one of many places
17:12 < wgGuest53> i was wanting to use the project manager and time tracker.  Can that be used to track time for various users?
17:13 <@preaction> uhm... uhmmmmm.... uhhhhhhmmmmmmm..... have you tried them out? played around with them?
17:14 < wgGuest53> I just installed them and I can see where i can track my time, but can a person log on without admin rights?  Maybe that should be the question I'm asking.
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17:14 <+MrHairgrease> hi
17:14 <+MrHairgrease> i have this one site running 7.3.22
17:14 <@preaction> yes, people can log on without admin rights if they have an account
17:14 < wgGuest53> ah.
17:14 <@preaction> MrHairgrease, get with the times, man
17:15 <+MrHairgrease> and all content in the uploads directories is delivered anyway regardless of the contents of .wgaccess
17:15 <+MrHairgrease> any idea what it can be?
17:15 <@preaction> MrHairgrease, using WRE and mod_proxy instance?
17:16 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
17:16 <@preaction> the mod_proxy instance doesn't check .wgaccess
17:16 <+MrHairgrease> aha
17:16 <@preaction> you need WebGUI to do that, and mod_proxy doesn't have WebGUI
17:16 <+MrHairgrease> ic
17:17 <+MrHairgrease> but i can tell modproxy to deliver the uploads request through webgui right
17:17 <+MrHairgrease> ?
17:17 <@preaction> yes, there should be a line in wre/etc/yoursite.modproxy
17:18  * MrHairgrease is checking it out
17:18 <+MrHairgrease> hang on
17:18 <+MrHairgrease> yup
17:18 <+MrHairgrease> uncommenting it now
17:19 <+MrHairgrease> hmmm
17:19 <@preaction> you mean commenting? the line should be a rewriterule that stops the proxy from happening
17:21 <+MrHairgrease> crappy wifi
17:22 <+MrHairgrease> keeps dropping my connection
17:22 <+MrHairgrease> anyway
17:22 <+MrHairgrease> #       RewriteRule ^/uploads/ - [L]
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17:22 <+MrHairgrease> now it works
17:22 <+MrHairgrease> as intended
17:22 <@preaction> good
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17:22 <+MrHairgrease> oh
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17:22 <+MrHairgrease> i see
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17:23 <+MrHairgrease> i meant commenting it out
17:23 <+MrHairgrease> not uncommenting
17:23 <+MrHairgrease> it's the dutch <-> english thing
17:23 <@preaction> yeah, blame it on the translation ;-)
17:23 <+MrHairgrease> in the Netherlands i would say i were to 'outcomment' it
17:23 <+MrHairgrease> hence the typo
17:23 <@preaction> not another one of your Dutch "liquid lunches"
17:23  * MrHairgrease is running to the coffe machine
17:24 <@preaction> irish coffee?
17:24 <+MrHairgrease> something like that
17:24 <+MrHairgrease> but w/o the coffee
17:24 < BartJol> liquid lunch? where?
17:24 <+MrHairgrease> cause it distracts you from the key point of irish coffee
17:24 <@preaction> outcomment makes sense, since we say "comment out"
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> sure it does
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> but it is a wrong word
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> uncommenting is not as far as i know
17:25 <@preaction> crazy bavarian compound-words
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> so i just migled that 
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> hey
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> i'm not german
17:26 <@preaction> near enough that their decadent culture is gnawing at your mind ;)
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17:27 <@preaction> (he says as he sits in the middle of red-neck, white-bread, over-religious Amerika)
17:27  * MrHairgrease thinks preaction should go back herding his cows
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> or whatever people do in wisconsin
17:27 <@preaction> definately the cows
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> heh
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> anyway
17:27 <@preaction> spoiling milk to make gold
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> thanks for the help
17:28 <+MrHairgrease> i couldn't understand why the uploadhandler wasn't beiong called
17:28 <+MrHairgrease> but now it makes sence
17:28 <+MrHairgrease> sense*
17:28 < perlmonkey2> I'm totally screwed
17:29 < perlmonkey2> I just got an email "When do you expect to have the survey system ready for testing/trainign.  We need to schedule a visit from a visiting grant sponsor from Sandia labs to train on it."
17:29 <+MrHairgrease> so tell em to schdule it next year =)
17:29 <@preaction> yay deadlines!
17:30 < perlmonkey2> hah, I like next year !
17:31 < perlmonkey2> Once I finish the survey system, how long does it normally take for a new core system, developed outside of PB, to be incorporated?
17:31 < perlmonkey2> My people want to know how long it will have to be used as a seperate Wobject rather than a core component.
17:32 < perlmonkey2> I guess this depends a lot on if it is a POS :P
17:32 <@preaction> i believe JT has said that the feature freeze is happening at the end of this month
17:32 < perlmonkey2> well if it isn't done by then, it probably isn't getting done.
17:32 <@preaction> so probably the 7.6 dev cycle then, which we're starting 6-month release cycles
17:33 <@preaction> the 23rd he said was the first of the beta releases of 7.5, but he said he might give PB a day during our yearly meeting to implement whatever RFEs we want that have bugged us
17:34 <@preaction> so i think features might still be added after the 7.5 releases get started
17:34 < perlmonkey2> sweet........that is great news.
17:34 <@preaction> i believe we've got the Survey, the Maps that nuba (i think) is working on, and someone is doing the Thingy (but not sure who or the status of it)
17:34 < perlmonkey2> I'm excited about Thingy.
17:35 <@preaction> if that holds true, i might even be able to get the Asset Report into 7.5
17:35 < perlmonkey2> No idea what it really does, but it sounds cool.
17:35 <@preaction> as an application, it's huge. from what i understand, it's like MS Access
17:35 < perlmonkey2> dang........
17:35 <@preaction> you can create a database, create forms and reports for that database
17:35 <@preaction> create templates for those reports and forms
17:36 < perlmonkey2> programming logic in the forms?
17:36 <@preaction> dunno
17:36 <@preaction> i would hope
17:36 < perlmonkey2> so you could say, if answer A go to question 2 if answer B go to question 3?
17:36 <@preaction> i think it's more of a simple database. it's the DataForm, SQLForm, and more rolled into one
17:37 <@preaction> address book, contacts, almost like a CRM, but not that powerful
17:37 < perlmonkey2> oh....wow
17:38 <@preaction> dunno what the actual definition of a CRM is, what makes those different from just a database, but whatevz
17:39 < perlmonkey2> heh
17:39 <@preaction> and the most fun about JS applications inside of asset edit forms: you're already in a form. but you don't know which form, where it is, how it is, or what it contains
17:40 <@preaction> so it's going to be a slew of "getElementsByTagName" and ugly functions to get and set the values i need to get and set...
17:42 < perlmonkey2> for the Thingy?
17:42 < perlmonkey2> it is going to be mostly implemented in JS?
17:43 <@preaction> no, i'm not doing the thingy. i'm making the Asset Report, which is inheriting from a generic Report framework
17:43 < perlmonkey2> ooooohh
17:43 < perlmonkey2> yes, that sounds painful.
17:43 <@preaction> the Report framework is going to allow multiple views, each view having a different template and style (so you could make RSS feeds with a Report subclass, or XML feeds, or JSON feeds, or whatever)
17:44 <@preaction> i've at least got a decent system in place, just whenever i have to write javascript my brain turns to mush. especially when there are no puzzles left to solve
17:45 < perlmonkey2> oh yes....javascript is more tedious than Java.
17:45 <+MrHairgrease> js sucks
17:45 < perlmonkey2> when I think I've got the arch of the applicatoin figured out, implementing it in JS is like hammering nails into my kneecap.
17:46 <+MrHairgrease> do you guys know this book
17:46 <+MrHairgrease> http://www.amazon.com/Pro-JavaScript-Techniques-John-Resig/dp/1590597273/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200325531&sr=8-1
17:46 <+MrHairgrease> it's pretty good
17:46 < perlmonkey2> nope, I have a 5 year old O'reilly book.....But I don't really need a book much for JS anymore.
17:47 <+MrHairgrease> it's about the only book that has helped me wrap my mind around how to write readable and maintainable javascript stuff
17:47 <@preaction> i find my JS is becoming a mixture of BSD-style C and PBP-style Perl
17:48 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
17:48 <+MrHairgrease> but that's not the best way to code in js
17:48 < perlmonkey2> MrHairgrease: I may have to order it then.  Does this look maintainable to you? http://www.lostokies.com:81/javascript/editsurvey.js
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17:49 <+MrHairgrease> dunno
17:49 <+MrHairgrease> it has global vars
17:49 <+MrHairgrease> which suck
17:50 <@preaction> yeah, globals are bad
17:50 <@preaction> put them in your namespace instead
17:50 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
17:50 <+MrHairgrease> that's one thing the book explains
17:50 <@preaction> same with your functions: WebGUI.Survey.functionName = function ( args ) { ... }
17:50 <+MrHairgrease> but it still have to get my feet wet with large js apps
17:52 < perlmonkey2> preaction: but that makes it a singleton.
17:52 <@preaction> i suppose i might be mad for saying so: you can get away with that, since there will never be more than one survey management system per page
17:52 <@preaction> will there?
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17:53 <+MrHairgrease> http://javascript.crockford.com/
17:54 < perlmonkey2> This is for editing the survey, so I know it won't conflict, since you'd never edit two surveys, let alone two systems on the same page.
17:54 <+MrHairgrease> you should read the prototypal inheritance articlke on that page
17:54 <@preaction> and it doesn't have to be a singleton, if you have an object constructor: WebGUI.Survey.Manager, then you can add methods to it via WebGUI.Survey.Manager.prototype.functionName = function ( args ) {...}
17:54 < perlmonkey2> And for the display, it won't involve much JS.  Probably just submit and reload with ajax....but maybe not for version 1.  Probably do the survey executation as normal CGI.
17:55 < perlmonkey2> But then there will only be 1 WebGUI.Survey.Manager.
17:55 < perlmonkey2> I need a question object for every question created.
17:57 < perlmonkey2> I guess I could create WebGUI.Survey.Questions and just make all the members arrays, and then question 1 would be found in the zero index of the arrays, q2 in the 1 index, ect.  But that sounds backwards.
17:58 <@preaction> that's what the prototype can be used for: WebGUI.Survey.Question = function ( ) { }; WebGUI.Survey.Question.prototype.MethodName = function { ... }; var q = new WebGUI.Survey.Question; q.MethodName <- calls my method
17:59 <+MrHairgrease> the book describes all this stuff
17:59 <+MrHairgrease> in various ways
17:59 <+MrHairgrease> and also how 'this' behaves
17:59 < perlmonkey2> preaction: Look at the Display Manager
18:00 < perlmonkey2> You are saying I could do var dm = new WebGUI.DM; and dm would contain a second instance of the WebGUI.DM object?
18:01 <@preaction> right
18:01 < perlmonkey2> Which is cool, but in order to clean up the namespace, you create superfulous instances of objects, since the first instance of WebGUI.DM would never be used.
18:01 <@preaction> in this instance, no, a second instance is not needed
18:01 <@preaction> but as you said, there are multiple questions
18:02 <@preaction> and sections
18:02 <@preaction> sections contain questions, so section objects have question objects inside them. asking a section to draw itself will make the section ask the questions to draw themselves
18:02 <@preaction> which, now that i've been able to actually say this, means that i've been thinking about my javascript all wrong 
18:03 < perlmonkey2> var temp = new WebGUI.DM; //is not a constructor is the error.
18:03 <@preaction> does WebGUI.DM = function () { ... }; ?
18:03 < perlmonkey2> WebGUI.DM = function(){
18:03 < perlmonkey2>     var lastQId = -1;//Current Question
18:03 < perlmonkey2>     var lastSId = -1;//Current Question
18:03 < perlmonkey2>     var lastAId = -1;//Current Question
18:03 < perlmonkey2>     var lastObject; 
18:04 <@preaction> i think you need the () after new WebGUI.DM
18:06 < wgGuest53> Hi!  Question:  Say I wanted to edit a line in the In/Out Board module.  Can I FTP to my site to do that? or is there a better way?
18:06 < perlmonkey2> WebGUI.DM = function(){...}(); is what I have.
18:07 <@preaction> wgGuest53, it's not recommended that you edit WebGUI modules, since an upgrade will destroy your changes. what does the IOB not do that you need it to do?
18:07 < perlmonkey2> preaction: I've tried this before.  In all the examples and texts I could find online, the only example of objects that can be called with new, are functions.  And I've never seen a function that can have a full namespace.
18:08 < wgGuest53> Where it says: "What's Happening" I would like to say "Expiration Date".  I'm using it to show which workers have taken a particular test (in/out) and when their expiration date on their card is.
18:09 < wgGuest53> so i'm using in/out to say yes/no.
18:09 < wgGuest53> but i need to change the label "what's happening" to "expiration date".
18:09 < wgGuest53> does that make sense?
18:11 <@preaction> yes. it sounds like you should be using something else, like a dataform perhaps. otherwise you want to edit the i18n file, since that is where that text is defined
18:12 <@preaction> perlmonkey2, http://webgui.pastebin.com/m3b3f7f91 <- a proof-of-concept
18:12 < wgGuest53> ok.  i'll try that.  thanks!
18:12 <@preaction> i'm not sure if it's "this" or just being called with "new" that causes JS to create an object instance
18:16 < perlmonkey2> preaction: ack....I can't get it to work with the list object syntax.
18:16 <@preaction> pastebin is in the topic, put the problem code there
18:16 <@preaction> perhaps a minimal testcase is in order as well?
18:17 <@preaction> the ##javascript channel on this network has been helpful to me in the past
18:17 < perlmonkey2> http://webgui.pastebin.com/d46f1a08d
18:18 <@preaction> when assigning properties to an object you need to use "this", not "var". this.property = "value";
18:18 <@preaction> nothing is returned from an object constructor
18:18 <@preaction> just the act of calling "new" creates an object
18:19 <@preaction> to assign methods to object, use Object.prototype.Method = function ..., as i did in my code
18:19 <@preaction> Object must resolve to a function, so in your case: WebGUI.DM.prototype.Method
18:22 < perlmonkey2> preaction: I thought this and var controlled if it was private or public
18:22 < perlmonkey2> but I just got it to work.
18:22 < perlmonkey2> This is so frick'n sweat.  I can use the list syntax for object creation and they can actually be real objects callable with new.
18:22 < perlmonkey2> so I get pretty syntax, full namespaces, and real objects.
18:23 <@preaction> var defines the scope of the variable. once the block that "var" is in ends, the variable is garbage
18:23 <@preaction> it's like my, only not precisely
18:23 < perlmonkey2> preaction: I don't like the prototype method......too much like inside out objects.  I like the list syntax.
18:24 <@preaction> list syntax is the old way of doing things, prototype method is, from what i understand, the inheritable way to do things
18:24 < perlmonkey2> good lord it is ugly and defines objects in several statements.
18:24 <@preaction> it defines the methods in different statements, yes.
18:24 < perlmonkey2> and I shoudl be able to inherit superclasses with this syntax.
18:24 <@preaction> it's more like regular OO-programming, like Perl or Jaa
18:25 <@preaction> true, i guess
18:26 < perlmonkey2> Well cool, thanks for the help
18:35 < wgGuest53> may i ask a question about the dataform?
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18:38 < perlDreamer> whoa
18:38 < perlDreamer> the whole gang's here!
18:38 < wgGuest53> when listing the data entries, it lists the "entry id":(oHRJt14iGhgjSFkYIFDFjg) instead of the user name.  It also lists the "yes/no" response as "1/2".  How can I make it report the username and yes/no?
18:45 < perlDreamer> wgGuest53, are you talking about the DataForm?
18:45 < wgGuest53> yes
18:46 < perlDreamer> Have you looked through the freely available online Help to get a list of template variables for the DataForm List Template?
18:47 < perlDreamer> Like, by going into Admin mode, hitting the Help icon (which looks like a ship's lifesaver)
18:47 < perlDreamer> Scrolling down to the DataForm List Template Variables entry
18:48 < perlDreamer> and reading through the list of template variables
18:48 < wgGuest53> ah.  ok.  thanks.  sorry.
18:48 < perlDreamer> No problem.
18:48 < perlDreamer> As the 1/2 yes/no issue, that sounds like a bug, especially if you're using a default template
18:48 < perlDreamer> Please file it in the Report a Bug section on the website.
18:48 < wgGuest53> ok.  thanks.  i'll check it out.
18:49 < perlDreamer> be sure to mention what version of wG (not the WRE) that you're using
18:49 <@preaction> i'll bet it has to be 1/2 (and not 0/1) because of HTML::Template (0 is false which won't get properly assigned)
18:51 < perlDreamer> It looks like in the DataForm yes and no are translated from strings "yes" and "no" to 1 and 0
18:53 <@preaction> that's weird. the WebGUI::Form::YesNo stores them as 0 (no) and 1 (yes). maybe the template has to do the actual showing of "yes" or "no" based on a conditional
18:53 < perlDreamer> maybe.  In any case, 1/2 is not right.
19:05 < wgGuest53> I see the list of template variables.  where do I go to use or edit the template?
19:06 < perlDreamer> The easiest way, IIRC, is to edit the DataForm, then flip to the Display tab where the templates are
19:06 < perlDreamer> Next to the Data Form List template, there should be an edit button
19:06 < perlDreamer> now, for working with templates
19:06 < perlDreamer> you should never, ever modify a default wG template, because upgrades may stomp on your changes
19:06 < perlDreamer> Make a copy of that template, change it, and then tell the dataform to use your copy
19:12 < perlDreamer> wgGuest53, you may learn a ton from looking at the Wiki at http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki
19:12 < perlDreamer> and the Content Manager's Guide from Plain Black also covers a ton of these learning WebGUI Issues
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20:19 < xdanger> is there a payment plugint for webgui that you can use in europe?
20:19 < wgGuest53> I have an issue with SQLFORMS
20:20 < wgGuest53> when I attempt to create a field in "SQLFORM, ADD/EDIT FIELD" I receive the following error: Problem With Request"We have encountered a problem with your request. Please use your back button and try again. If this problem persists, please contact us with what you were trying to do and the time and date of the problem."  Then it logs me out.
20:20 < wgGuest53> can someone please speak with me about this?
20:21 < wgGuest53> I've been looking through the forums
20:24 <@preaction> Problem With Request will be in the error log
20:26 < perlDreamer> webgui.log
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20:40 < wgGuest53> where is webgui.log?
20:40 < perlDreamer> usually in /var/log/webgui.log
20:40 < perlDreamer> but it depends on your system
20:40 < perlDreamer> and if you use the WRE
20:41 < perlDreamer> preaction is right, it's good to check the apache error log too
20:50 < wgGuest53> I'm being hosted on plainblack server: http://web368.plainblack.net/ but can't FTP into it.  any suggestions?
20:51 < perlDreamer> If you're hosted by PB, then you might try the paid support board.
20:55 < wgGuest53> when i log in at "http://www.plainblack.com/plain_black_support" it shows me as logged in, but tells me: "Permission Denied!"
20:56 < perlDreamer> Are you paying for support, or just hosting?
20:57 < wgGuest53> I am on the $50/mo - Supported WebGUI Hosting plan
20:58 < perlDreamer> In that case, you should call them and report the problem with not being able to access the support board.
20:58 < perlDreamer> then, after that is fixed, post your SQL Form problem over theer
20:59 < wgGuest53> cool.  is there a phone number i should have access to?
20:59 < perlDreamer> I would guess that the one on the website would work?
21:00 < wgGuest53> d'oh!  thanks.
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--- Day changed Tue Jan 15 2008
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00:20 < Syn2> this one is for JT: http://xkcd.com
00:20 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
00:20 <+MrHairgrease> that's a cool comic
00:23 < Syn2> :)
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00:23 < Syn2> when will IRC karma points be introduced?
00:24 < perlDreamer> they already work
00:24 < Syn2> i got to get more karma than morekarmathankoenandbart
00:24 < perlDreamer> ++ Syn2
00:24 < Syn2> :)
00:24 < perlDreamer> karma Syn2
00:24 < perlDreamer> perlbot: karms Syn2
00:24 < perlDreamer> perlbot: karma Syn2
00:24 < perlbot> Syn2 doesn't have any karma
00:24 < perlDreamer> Syn2++
00:24 < perlDreamer> perlbot: karma Syn2
00:24 < perlbot> Karma for Syn2: 1
00:24 < Syn2> huu
00:24 < Syn2> that is scary indeed
00:24 <+MrHairgrease> Syn2--
00:25 < perlDreamer> perlbot: karma
00:25 < perlbot> pass out karma to those who deserve it (GumbyGumby++) and retract it from those who don't (php--)
00:25 <+MrHairgrease> that'll get your feet on the ground again =)
00:25 < Syn2> SexOnTheBeach++
00:25 <+MrHairgrease> I would never ever give someone called gumbygumby karma
00:25 <+MrHairgrease> ever
00:26 <+MrHairgrease> SandInYourAss--
00:26 <+MrHairgrease> =)
00:26 < Syn2> would you give carma to someone who has perl in his nick?
00:26 < perlDreamer> nah.  guys like that are losers and hacker wannabes
00:26 <+MrHairgrease> perlDreamer++
00:27 <+MrHairgrease> b/c I like losers and wnnabee hackers
00:27 < Syn2> hehe
00:27 < Syn2> I knew you liked me :)
00:28 < perlDreamer> thank you, MrHairGrease
00:28 < perlDreamer> Not only are you an uber-hacker and EuroTrash, you're also a gentleman
00:28 < Syn2> hehe
00:28 < Syn2> eurotrash, does that consist at least partly out of belgian beer?
00:28 <+MrHairgrease> don't forget the ultrahip
00:28 <+MrHairgrease> and what was the other thing again
00:29 < Syn2> overconfident?
00:29 < perlDreamer> Chief Spokesman for Murray's ?
00:29 <+MrHairgrease> hang on
00:29 <+MrHairgrease> i'm chceking the irc logs
00:29 < perlDreamer> Baron of Beer Consumption?
00:29 <+MrHairgrease> oh yeah
00:29 <+MrHairgrease> sexappeal
00:30 <+MrHairgrease> or however you spell that
00:30 <+MrHairgrease> =)
00:30 < Syn2> I gotta lie down for half an hour before I embark on a trip of night hacking
00:30 < Syn2> brb
00:43 <+MrHairgrease> rizen: thanks for the chocolates btw
00:43 <+MrHairgrease> they're nice
00:43 <@rizen> you're quite welcome
00:53 < perlDreamer> does anyone know how TT benchmarks vs H::T?
00:53 <+MrHairgrease> i asked the same friday
00:53 <+MrHairgrease> so please relay your findings to me too
00:55 <@rizen> i don't remember where i saw the benchmarks, but when i first decided to go with H::T vs TT it was close to 10:1 difference
00:56 <@rizen> however, we're talking ms here, so in the greater scheme of things, 10:1 isn't noticable on a single page ivew
00:56 <@rizen> it only becomes apparent across the entire site
00:57 <@rizen> the one advantage that TT has over H::T in most situations (but not in webgui) is that it can optionally generate some templates
00:57 <@rizen> template tags that is
00:57 < perlDreamer> http://www.chamas.com/bench/index.html#2000
00:57 <@rizen> because you can pass in subrefs
00:57 < perlDreamer> TT is slightly faster, but uses 3X the memory
00:58 <+MrHairgrease> who cares
00:58 < perlDreamer> and that comparison is 5 years old
00:58 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
00:58 <@rizen> that's not the one i saw
00:58 <+MrHairgrease> i can imagine that the difference fot h::t is minimal though
01:01 <@rizen> keep in mind that no matter what charts you can find, they won't apply to webgui because webgui was written with HTML::Template in mind, not TT
01:02 <@rizen> so H:T has a big advantage in wg
01:02 <+MrHairgrease> it very well could be
01:02 <+MrHairgrease> but how is wg specifically written for h::t?
01:02 < perlDreamer> Don't you just build a hash and shove it into the templating engnie?
01:02 < perlDreamer> yeah, what MrHairgrease said
01:02 < perlDreamer> MrHairgrease++
01:03 <@rizen> because we prebuild a bunch of crap that you wouldn't prebuild for TT
01:03 <+MrHairgrease> i imagine that all template systems in essence just get a gob of data
01:03 <+MrHairgrease> and so something with it
01:03 <@rizen> because for example
01:03 <+MrHairgrease> oh i see
01:03 <@rizen> there's no way to do $a == $b
01:03 <@rizen> in H:T
01:03 <+MrHairgrease> but i can imagine that if you don't do all those complex things with tt
01:03 <@rizen> but if we were optimized for TT, then we wouldn't do those things
01:03 <+MrHairgrease> it'll be faster than if you do
01:04 <+MrHairgrease> so the difference is prolly not as bad as you say
01:04 <@rizen> you're missing it
01:04 <+MrHairgrease> no
01:04 <@rizen> or i'm not explaining it right
01:04 < perlDreamer> so it's the difference between precompiling stuff that might not be needed
01:04 <@rizen> yes
01:04 <+MrHairgrease> sure
01:04 <@rizen> pd gets the cookie
01:04 <+MrHairgrease> but that overhead is there for h::t to
01:04 <@rizen> but it's not just variables
01:04 <+MrHairgrease> i'm saying 
01:04 <+MrHairgrease> wait a sec
01:05 <+MrHairgrease> i think you're not getting me =)
01:05 <@rizen> it's also because TT can get sub refs passed into it
01:05 <@rizen> to conditionally process stuff
01:05 <+MrHairgrease> i know
01:05 <@rizen> and the other difference is, that TT is loading its ability to do all that other crap
01:05 <@rizen> even though you don't use it in webgui
01:05 <@rizen> whereas H:T doesn't have it, so it doesn't load it
01:05 <@rizen> that's why i say that WebGUI was built with H:T in mind, not TT
01:06 <+MrHairgrease> what i tried to say is that if all the crap is precalculated you don't have to do that in tt
01:06 <@rizen> and why H:T has an advantage in WebGUI that TT doesn't
01:06 <+MrHairgrease> and use tt just like you'd use h::t
01:06 <@rizen> right, that's what we do
01:06 <+MrHairgrease> i understand that still tt would priolly be slower
01:06 <+MrHairgrease> but it's not as bad as to have and calculate it all AGAIN in tt
01:06 <@rizen> however, if we redesigned things to work with TT natively, TT could definitely get a performance boost in webgui
01:07 < perlmonkey2> MrHairgrease: I'm sad to say that I have decided to not follow your advice.  I am going to go with the OOP module used in the YUI examples.
01:07 < perlmonkey2> Which is kind of a mismatch of literal singletons and namespaced functions.
01:08 < perlmonkey2> But thank you for the links and help :)
01:08 <+MrHairgrease> is there an OOP module in the yui?
01:08 <+MrHairgrease> do you have a link
01:08 < perlmonkey2> MrHairgrease: No, there is no module, there is just examples of them using an oop paradigm
01:08 <+MrHairgrease> going yui style is prolly not bad
01:09 <+MrHairgrease> all that stuff is designed by douglas crockford
01:09 <+MrHairgrease> which is one of the most guru-est js guru's
01:09 <+MrHairgrease> still do you have a link?
01:10 <+MrHairgrease> rizen: anyway, i'm staying with h::t whenever I can
01:10 <+MrHairgrease> however I've gotten fed up with the stuff that it can't do now and then
01:10 <@rizen> mrhairgrease, i'm not advocating H:T
01:11 <+MrHairgrease> so I figured i'd use tt for that
01:11 <+MrHairgrease> i know
01:11 <@rizen> just stating how things are in webgui, if i had the time and inclination to do it, i'd convert everyting in webgui to tt
01:11 <+MrHairgrease> really???
01:12 < perlmonkey2> MrHairgrease: That stuff is designed by crockford?  But the link you sent me showed an entirely different style.
01:12 <+MrHairgrease> i thought you always wanted to prevent building a server pages thing at the core of webgui
01:12 <+MrHairgrease> it is
01:12 < perlmonkey2> rizen++ for TT
01:13 <+MrHairgrease> he has more styles on that page as well
01:13 <+MrHairgrease> but in essence js has prototypal inheritence
01:13 <+MrHairgrease> which makes it pretty powerful
01:13 <+MrHairgrease> but also very difficult to program in
01:14 <@rizen> MrHairgrease, i absolutely do want to prevent webgui from having server page language, but i think i can do that in the confines of TT, and still allow some of the power of TT to those that need it, all without supporting H:T, H:T:E, and TT
01:14 <+MrHairgrease> since its paradigm is so different from the perl's
01:14 <@rizen> which is what we do now
01:14 < perlmonkey2> MrHairgrease: this.inherit= superClass;    this.inherit([superclassparams); this.superclassmethod(); is that what you mean?
01:16 <+MrHairgrease> that's his way to wrap a classlike inheritance model around it
01:17 < perlmonkey2> well, then that is super duper cool because the only thing I have to change in my code is the function constructor line from "function name(){...}" to full.name.space = function(){...}" and everything else is already correct...woot.
01:18 <+MrHairgrease> http://javascript.crockford.com/inheritance.html
01:18 <+MrHairgrease> i think it's there
01:19 <+MrHairgrease> anyway the book i mentioned explains all styles
01:19 < perlmonkey2> did he write it?
01:19 <+MrHairgrease> no
01:19 <+MrHairgrease> john resig did
01:19 <+MrHairgrease> the guy that built JQuery
01:19 < perlmonkey2> then I guess I should order it.
01:19 <+MrHairgrease> but crockfords method is mentioned in it
01:20 <+MrHairgrease> as far as i'm concerned it's the only good js book i've ever read
01:20 <+MrHairgrease> and i've only read a couple of chapters
01:20 <+MrHairgrease> the rest will come when i have time for it
01:21 < perlmonkey2> right on.....thanks again
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01:41 < perlDreamer> hey, you can pass H::T subref's, too
01:41 < perlDreamer> that means that we have a chance to lighten the load on some of the bigger templates
01:54 < metanil> how can i get the actual link to get picture from user profile? I can see "photo" field in table userProfileData, how can i convert it into some HTML path.?
01:54 < perlDreamer> where do you want to use this picture?
01:55 < metanil> i want to make a custom profile page that will display information of all users including their personal photo
01:55 < perlDreamer> How about changing the user profile template?
01:56 < perlDreamer> I say that because it's not currently possible to do what you're asking.
01:56 < metanil> huh? is it there.. i don't think there is any asset.. which means a template.. lemme check it out.
01:56 < perlDreamer> it's there
01:57 < perlDreamer> Just be careful, because I'm pretty sure you can't tell wG to use a different one, which means it always uses the default template, so your customizations could be lost in an upgrade to the template
01:59 < metanil> you mean "Default Profile Display template"??
01:59 < perlDreamer> that sounds right
02:00 < metanil> Is there any existing assets/page that were using it?
02:01 < perlDreamer> templates are used by assets, macros and operations
02:01 < perlDreamer> In this case, it would be the User Profile operation
02:01 < perlDreamer> Nothing else should be using it
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02:14 < metanil> perlDreamer, i can't still figure out how to use that template in some page.
02:15 < perlDreamer> well, technically, you can't, but you can customize the user's profile.  I'm sorry if I misled you.
02:15 < perlDreamer> So is it just a URL issue?
02:15 < perlDreamer> instead of ?op=viewProfile=Jerry, you like http://mysite/jerry ?
02:17 < metanil> btw, is this work http://mysite?op=viewProfile;uid=GtEOfAf8yGCqrer2MuanOQ?
02:17 < perlDreamer> yes, if the user has their profile to be public
02:18 < metanil> i can
02:18 < metanil> oops
02:18 <+Radix-wrk> you can set it public by default if you want - simply change the visitor user's profile accordingly - but it will not affect existing users - only new users
02:18 < perlDreamer> right
02:19 < perlDreamer> I have an idea
02:19 < perlDreamer> Why don't you make a forum posting with a full, verbose description of what you want to do
02:19 < perlDreamer> That will let a bunch of us read it, think about it, then let you if/how it can be done
02:19 < metanil> but i can see a checkbox that say "make profile public" --> true
02:19 < perlDreamer> Yes, but it's only for you, and for new users
02:19 < perlDreamer> existing users will not be changed by that
02:23 < metanil> weird! why is http://mysite/home?op=auth;method=displayAccount is not working for me?
02:23 < metanil> even for admin account
02:24 < metanil> i should get a page that would allow me change some personal setting right?
02:25 < perlDreamer> what does it say when you try that?
02:26 < metanil> nothing .. just return back to the first page (home)
02:26 < metanil> i guess something is wrong
02:26 < perlDreamer> check your webgui.log file
02:28 < metanil> ........................... main::[[undef]] - Couldn't connect to mail server: localhost .... weird!!
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02:30 < metanil> oops .. no log entry
02:30 < metanil> no error is logged in webgui.log file.
02:32 < perlDreamer> Did you change anything in the site?
02:32 < metanil> yes. i guess.
02:32 < metanil> in Operation/User.pm
02:33 < metanil> i guess thats the only file i touched
02:33 < perlDreamer> are you using version control for your customized wG?
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02:34 < metanil> yes.. but i am getting this issue quite a while. i thought it was normal. 
02:34 < perlDreamer> No
02:34 < perlDreamer> It should work
02:35 < perlDreamer> Check it out on a demo site
02:35 < perlDreamer> It will work fine
02:36 < metanil> ya i know, when i first install the webgui.. it was working.. but then i didn't use it .. so i don't know .. but when check it few days back .. its giving me like that.
02:36 < metanil> ok i'll backtrace my changes and look for it
02:37 < perlDreamer> time for me to head home
02:37 < perlDreamer> good luck, metanil
02:37 < metanil> thnx.
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02:38 < metanil> btw, it this related to showing user profile?
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05:53 < elnino> long shot - anyone here related to valuecms.com - a hosting company that uses webgui for their customers?
06:18 < perlmonkey2> When customizing the coolmenu nav bar, I should just edit the coolmenu settings directly, right?
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08:43 < beginwebgui> hello .whats the function of WebGUI::Paginator?
08:45 < beginwebgui> "Retrieves a data set from a database and replaces whatever data set was passed in through the constructor."??
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09:40 <@preaction> beginwebgui, the purpose of the paginator is to paginate data easily. 
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12:59 <@preaction> Okay. The Syndicated Content Wobject needs a rewrite... this thing is ugly times ugly squared...
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14:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI: doug * r5283 /branch/doug-experimental/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Nightly checkin because you forgot
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16:03 < SDuensin> Morning.
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16:08 < perlmonkey2> Good morning
16:09 <@preaction> morning
16:22 < bartjol> morning
16:26 < perlmonkey2> blah, I just can't start working today.
16:27 < SDuensin> I support that attitude.
16:28 <@preaction> pfft. lazy gits
16:31 < SDuensin> Is it still lazyness if you just don't care?
16:34 <@preaction> apathy breeds laziness
16:51 < SDuensin> That would concern me, if I cared.  :-P
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17:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: graham * r5284 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (4 files in 4 dirs): fix: Fatal errors kill login session
17:38 < perlmonkey2> tbb's rss feed isn't updating for me?  Has anyone else had  aproblem seeing the latest blog entries?
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19:04 <@preaction> i still wish they made the exact same headset I use everyday for skype, but in a bluetooth version
19:04 <@preaction> every bluetooth "headset" i see are those one-ear things. nothing two-ear + microphone
19:05 <+perlDreamer> I'm filing a bug for the HTML::Template loop/boolean bug
19:06 <@preaction> yeah, i don't even understand that one
19:07 <@preaction> as long as it's not used as a tmpl_var, it shouldn't throw that error
19:07 <+perlDreamer> I agree
19:07 <+perlDreamer> If you write a patch for it, I'll include it with my bug report :)
19:12 <@preaction> good god the code that does that is ugly...
19:15  * perlDreamer waits for diakopter to chime in...
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19:17 <+perlDreamer> I think I see the problem...
19:17 <+perlDreamer> $param_map
19:17 <@preaction> and that is one damned scary regular expression that parses the template
19:17 <@preaction> yeah, i'm trying to track down how that gets populated
19:18 <@preaction> if there's an _IF but no _VAR, then you should be able to set anything to that param
19:18 <@preaction> (that's what i would expect, at least)
19:23 <@preaction> looks like 2355-2370 are what resolve pending conditionals. if a conditional never has a tmpl_Var or tmpl_loop, it's set to a tmpl_var
19:23 <@preaction> 2360-2363 actually create the new VAR object and assign it to the right places
19:24 <+perlDreamer> I'm trying the direct approach
19:24 <+perlDreamer> line 2564
19:25 <@preaction> yeah, i tried that. param_map is created by parsing the template, which happens before that. i think first _parse needs to keep track of conditionals that it doesn't know are LOOP or VAR, and then down by 2564 we can handle appropriately
19:26 <@preaction> so i think there needs to be an HTML::Template::BOOLEAN type that can function as a bool until something better comes along
19:28 <@preaction> or just an UNKNOWN type that's functionally equivalent to VAR but doesn't error near 2564
19:30 <@preaction> and also allows setting of a VAR or LOOP type
19:31 <+perlDreamer> No, you're right.  It wants a BOOLEAN type.
19:31 <+perlDreamer> Something that allows scalar/array checking to happen normally
19:31 <+perlDreamer> but doesn't care so long as it can be true/false
19:32 <@preaction> and _parse has to know that it when it sees a VAR or a LOOP and the param_map already contains a BOOLEAN there, the param_map needs to be changed
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19:32 <+perlDreamer> I think that's actually how it's supposed to be working right now
19:33 <+perlDreamer> First you find the var from the conditional
19:33 <+perlDreamer> then it gets reassigned to a LOOP
19:33 <+perlDreamer> and everyone is accidently happy
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19:35 <@preaction> given this: <tmpl_if X><tmpl_var X></tmpl_if> _parse sees tmpl_if X, and adds X to @ucstack of "unconnected conditionals" (because it isn't connected to a VAR or a LOOP, $param_map{"X"} doesn't exist)
19:35 <@preaction> then it sees <tmpl_var X>, X is added to param_map, and later when it cleans up the ucstack, it can assign properly
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19:36 <@preaction> given this: <tmpl_if X>Some Text</tmpl_if>, when cleaning up the ucstack, it doesn't know what X is, so like 2360 just says "It's a HTML::Template::VAR and that's FINAL!" and storms off like a petulant child
19:36 <@preaction> 2360 being line 2360
19:36 <+perlDreamer> yawp
19:37 <@preaction> then later you call param( X => []) and it blows up
19:38 <+perlDreamer> if VARIABLE_TYPE_VAR =~ VARIABLE_TYPE_LOOP, then we'd be fine
19:38 <+perlDreamer> it's type checking
19:38 <+perlDreamer> and it doesnt' need to
19:39 <+perlDreamer> see lines 2365-67
19:39 <@preaction> so i figure when cleaning up the ucstack (there are two places where it happens 2119 and 2360), just assign them HTML::Template::BOOLEAN instead or maybe "DEFERRED" or "UNKNOWN" and set the type after we get the value from param() 
19:39 <@preaction> oh, the COND has a variable type too
19:39 <@preaction> why should we care?
19:40 <@preaction> why doesn't the LOOP and VAR objects have some sort of method that the CONDs can use to determine their boolean state?
19:40 <+perlDreamer> exactly
19:40 <+perlDreamer> no type checking
19:40 <+perlDreamer> oh, that code is pasted in here twice...
19:41 <@preaction> right, but we're still left with the original problem, which is a way to tell every bit of HTML::Template that this is neither a LOOP nor a VAR, and could be set to either by param()
19:41 <@preaction> it's not so much pasted as it is some evil magic
19:41 <+perlDreamer> oh no, I'm pretty sure it's copy/pasted into two places
19:42 <@preaction> looks like a tmpl_loop creates a whole new context, and manipulates typeglobs to hide the original context
19:42 <+perlDreamer> check the block near 2127, and the bock near 2365
19:42 <@preaction> evil. it looks like it should have some sort of recursion
19:42 <+perlDreamer> or call a subroutine?
19:42 <@preaction> right
19:43 <@preaction> we won't even get into that gnarly regex up there... whoever thunk that one up should be shot and killed
19:43 <@preaction> maybe it's faster, i dunno
19:44 <+perlDreamer> the regex is fine, it's just blown out into caselessness
19:44 <@preaction> i would think it'd be more logical to grab <tmpl_([^>]+)> and then move on from $1
19:51 <+perlDreamer> I wonder if it's really faster to have all this code unrolled like this
19:51 <+perlDreamer> it's gotta be a nightmare to keep track of
20:02 <@preaction> okay, i think i'm close, but can you think of any reason why something might be true as a scalar but false as an array?
20:02 <+perlDreamer> undef
20:02 <+perlDreamer> uh, wait
20:02 <+perlDreamer> that's false as a scalar and true as an array
20:03 <@preaction> 2749 in sub output does type checking for conditionals, 2759 is what does it for loops, i'm just setting it as an UNKNOWN, which is not a VAR so goes to the second line
20:03 <@preaction> i'm thinking i can get rid of the check completely
20:03 <+perlDreamer> it will be interesting to see if this passes the test suite
20:03 <@preaction> yes indeed
20:03 <+perlDreamer> I'll email you the testlet I wrote for the loop/boolean
20:03 <@preaction> k
20:04 <+perlDreamer> it's on its way
20:05 <+perlDreamer> and, why oh why, is jamie the only guy at PB whose email address is not his first name?
20:06 <+perlDreamer> I always forget it, and then it bounces.
20:07 < perlmonkey2> Where is the link to the Plainblack link to this channel?  I'm wondering about the web irc clien.t
20:08 <+perlDreamer> It's in the wiki?
20:08 <@preaction> because everyone calls him vrby
20:09 <@preaction> it's on webgui.org/forums too i think
20:09 <+perlDreamer> true
20:10 <@preaction> i'm getting close but this hack is ugly as all hell...
20:10 <@preaction> it works except i don't allow overwriting of UNKNOWN yet
20:11 <@rizen> actually jamie at pb should work too
20:11 <@rizen> i set up an alias when i made is account
20:11 <+perlDreamer> It bounced
20:11 <+perlDreamer> I'll try again
20:11 <+perlDreamer> and forward you the bounc
20:11 <+perlDreamer> e
20:50 <@preaction> perlDreamer, does the unchanged version of HTML::Template pass all of its default tests? i've got things that look like they couldn't fail but are failing
20:52 <+perlDreamer> I'm pretty sure it does
20:52 <+perlDreamer> let me revert and retest
20:53 <@preaction> i think i've got my scalar refs messed up. VAR can be either a scalar or a coderef and is stuck inside a scalar ref
20:54 <@preaction> ha! passes the original suite now
20:54 <@preaction> now to your new tests
20:54 <+perlDreamer> all tests pass with the original code
20:54 <+perlDreamer> note, you'll need to handrun 12-loop-boolean, since I coded it as a TODO
20:54 <@preaction> i get 1/3 unexpectedly succeeded
20:55 <+perlDreamer> oh, in that case, it's probably really good
20:55 <+perlDreamer> from the module directory, do a perl -Mblib t/12-loop-boolean.t
20:56 <@preaction> i'm failing on the is($value, 'You have a loop')
20:57 <+perlDreamer> that's a problem
20:59 <@preaction> shouldn't $value be $template->output after you set $template->param ?
20:59 <+perlDreamer> yup
20:59 <+perlDreamer> bad test
21:00 <@preaction> er.. that doesn't seem to work either :(
21:01 <+perlDreamer> yup
21:01 <@preaction> but it might not be the test now
21:01 <+perlDreamer> bad code, too
21:03 <@preaction> use_ok doesn't set %INC? or is it %LIB?
21:03 <+perlDreamer> I don't know
21:08 <+perlDreamer> It should set both of them
21:08 <+perlDreamer> use_ok just wraps a use in an eval
21:08  * perlDreamer heads off to the gym
21:08 <@preaction> something else was happening, i got it figured out. should have something later. have fun
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22:08 < wgGuest23> hello
22:09 < wgGuest23> i have a question related to colaboration systems
22:10 < wgGuest23> i am checking the templates and i found that the tmpl_loop post_loop is where the threads are shown
22:11 < wgGuest23> if i have several threads it shows all of them 
22:11 < wgGuest23> how can i show only one thread using the same loop, if i have several threads
22:11 < wgGuest23> is there something to break the loop?
22:12 < khenn_> no but you could use <tmpl_unless __FIRST__>
22:12 < khenn_> or <tmpl_unless __LAST__>
22:13 < khenn_> it would still loop through all of the items returned
22:13 < khenn_> so you could set pagination to 1
22:13 < khenn_> if you only want to display one thing
22:13 < khenn_> and then remove the pagination
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22:15 < wgGuest23> ok
22:15 < wgGuest23> thanks
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22:18 < CIA-20> WebGUI: graham * r5285 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Event.pm): fix: Calendar Event recurrence stretching over daylight savings time changes use wrong times
22:21 <@preaction> good lord i hate the calendar
22:21 <@preaction> calendars in general how about?
22:21 <@khenn> why?
22:21 <@khenn> what are you doing with the calendar?
22:21 <@preaction> that fix that graham just did
22:22 <@preaction> just one of many little fixes because date/time is completely illogical and impossible to work with
22:22 <@khenn> yeah anything to do with date/time sucks
22:22 <@preaction> throw time-zones and daylight savings time into the mix and you've got your own personal slice of hell
22:24 <@preaction> i need to make the code that will share packages between sites, and otherwise increase what packages are capable (singleton packages, can't be deployed and/or do not show up in the Packages tab)
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22:34 < wgGuest38> hello
22:35 < wgGuest38> if i use <tmpl_if __FIRST__> in a loop in the colaboration system template i will be show only the first thread
22:36 < wgGuest38> ?
22:36 <@khenn> yes
22:36 <@khenn> true
22:36 <@preaction> try it and see
22:36 <@khenn> <tmpl_if __LAST__> will show the last item
22:36 <@khenn> well it will execute on the last item in the loop
22:36 < wgGuest38> yes, i tried but i continue seeing all the threads
22:40 < wgGuest38> yes, i tried again and works
22:41 <@preaction> browser cache
22:42 < wgGuest38> if i am inside of one thread, in that template can i use a loop where i can see the rest of threads that the colaborations systems has?
22:43 <@preaction> no
22:43 <@preaction> the online help (Help tab in the admin console) has all the template variables allowed in templates
22:44 < wgGuest38> do you know coppermime?
22:46 < wgGuest38> it is a photo gallery when the user can create his own albums and the rest of the people can rate his/her photos and can put messages on each one
22:46 <@preaction> sounds like the Gallery that's in webgui 7.5
22:48 < wgGuest38> when the webgui 7.5 stable release is online?
22:48 <@preaction> there hasn't even been a beta release yet
22:50 < wgGuest38> in the webgui 7.5 will be a photo gallery like i described before?
22:51 <@preaction> without the rating feature
22:52 <@rizen> I just submitted 4 talk proposals to OSCON and 4 more to YAPC. Man, I hope some of them get accepted.
22:53 < wgGuest38> why without the rating feature?
22:53 < wgGuest38> do you thinks to include it in a future version?
22:54 < wgGuest38> we want to create a photo gallery like i described before, do you believe that i can wait the webgui 7.5?
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22:57 <+perlDreamer> preaction++
22:57 <@preaction> wgGuest38, it was planned to put rating in but I ran out of time for it. not sure on the timetable for the 7.5 release cycle, but the a pre-release is happening next week I believe
22:58 < wgGuest38> ok
22:58 < wgGuest38> thanks for your help
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22:59 <@preaction> perlDreamer, i just hope i didn't break something else with that hack
23:00 <+perlDreamer> there's only one way to find out :)
23:00 <@preaction> but now that i remember i'm technically running my changed version of H::T in my WRE, so i'll probably be first to know ;)
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23:38 <@rizen> perlDreamer, i've figured out why you like testing so much
23:48 < xdanger> rizen: could you comment my last comment about this: http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/use-user-profile-for-javascript-calendars-timeformat
23:48 <@rizen> yeah, i'm looking at this right now, how did you know?
23:48 < xdanger> out =)
23:48 <@rizen> sorry for the delay, but i get a lot of email everyday, so much that I sometimes have to do email catch up days like today
23:49 < xdanger> No problem, I'm not in a hurry...
23:49 < xdanger> just that noticed that you were online and talking, and remembered the thing myself
23:51 <+perlDreamer> rizen: Why do I like testing? :)
23:52 <@rizen> because you spend your free time with the sci fi channel, and a typical critical plot point in sci fi shows is a diagnostic
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23:59 <+perlDreamer> I thought it was because I excel at maintenance tasks that no one else does.
23:59 <+perlDreamer> Like church website
23:59 <+perlDreamer> documentation
23:59 <+perlDreamer> etc.
--- Day changed Wed Jan 16 2008
00:00 <@rizen> yeah, but that's not nearly as funny
00:00 <+perlDreamer> No, funny is going to be my testing chapter
00:00 <@rizen> hehe
00:01 <+perlDreamer> All the examples are from my family
00:01 <@rizen> good we need some humor in there
00:01 <+perlDreamer> cmp_ok ( $olderSon->train_rides, '>=', 3, 'older son is happy');
00:01 <@rizen> hehe
00:02 <+perlDreamer> is( $youngerSon->askedFor, 'hot dogs', 'Younger son is happy');
00:02 <+perlDreamer> That test always fails
00:02 <+perlDreamer> :(
00:13 < metanil> perlDreamer, we left one question incomplete yesterday.. remember.
00:14 < metanil> i see the photo field in userProfileData; but its just varchar(20) type.. i guess its just a 'key' and data should be in other table.. do you know which one?
00:14 <@rizen> at OSCON we're going to have over 1000 gooey's stacked in our booth
00:15 <@rizen> it should be quite the sight to see
00:15 < metanil> OR could we get path from that photo field value directly?
00:18 <+perlDreamer> The data in the photo field is a storageId
00:18 <+perlDreamer> It's not stored in a table
00:18 <+perlDreamer> rizen: you should advertise it as a new WebGUI clustering solution
00:20 < metanil> oh! its a storageId... how do we get data from that id?
00:21 <@rizen> that's a great idea pd
00:21 <@rizen> but i also think it will make one hell of a photo
00:24 < metanil> is there any method available in webgui library to get that?
00:24 <+perlDreamer> metanil: Yes, but only in the API, not the macro level
00:24 <+perlDreamer> I'm still confused why you want to duplicate the user profile page
00:26 < metanil> yes. but i want to customize it on my own.. and moreover learning webgui core side by side.
00:27 <+perlDreamer> Okay, if you're using the API, then check out WebGUI::Storage::Image.pm
00:28 < metanil> cool!!!!
00:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: graham * r5286 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fix: In IE, 'Insert WebGUI Image' loses some attributes
00:33 <+perlDreamer> Haarg++
00:34 <+perlDreamer> He's a bug fixing machine!
00:39 <+perlDreamer> metanil, reverse engineering Form/Image.pm and ProfileField will help you learn a lot about that, too.
00:39 < metanil> superb!!
00:40 <+perlDreamer> metanil: What kind of site are you going to build?
00:41 < metanil> its currently very simple but if i could learn a lot then it could be very big project.
00:41 <+perlDreamer> You should also join the developer's mailing list, then.
00:42 < metanil> but as always main decision is made by our boss.
00:42 <+perlDreamer> Give us access to his API, we'll "patch" him.
00:43 < metanil> currently we're at starting phase just like "proof of concept" thing.
00:44 < metanil> but sure .. you're welcome guys
00:59 <+perlDreamer> Sorry, that was a bad joke about patching your boss'es API so that he'd choose WebGUI
01:09 <+perlDreamer> um, is webgui.org down right now?
01:09 <@rizen> nop
01:09 <@rizen> i can get there
01:09 <+perlDreamer> try the forums
01:10 <@rizen> yup, can get there too
01:12 <+perlDreamer> hm, maybe if I restart the browser
01:12 <+perlDreamer> yup, that's better
01:13 <@rizen> i was going to be pissed that i didn't get a page if it was down
01:13 <+perlDreamer> Are you lusting after the new Air books yet?
01:14 <@rizen> haven't seen it yet
01:14 <@rizen> watching the keynote now
01:18 <@apeiron> Air books?
01:19 <+perlDreamer> Check out Job's keynote
01:19 <+perlDreamer> from today at MacWorld
01:20 <+perlDreamer> or read Slashdot
01:23 <@apeiron> Oh, I thought you meant Adobe Air.
01:24 <+perlDreamer> Next year I want him to make one I can fold up and put in my back pocket
01:25 <@rizen> it's called iphone
01:26 <+perlDreamer> It comes with gvim? ;)
01:26 <@rizen> it will in february
01:29 <+perlDreamer> so close: http://news.perlfoundation.org/2008/01/i_need_a_crm_package.html
01:32 <@rizen> webgui needs a crm at some point
01:33 <@rizen> in the short term the thingy will do it nicely
01:33 <@rizen> but in the long term we need a full blown one
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02:57 < knowma1> has anyone ever had a problem with WebGUI (v7.3.22) not creating a new asset? here's the log output -- "attempted to to call a non-existent method add;class=WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Layout on"
03:23 < knowma1> i've found where this message is occurring -- WebGUI.pm, page(). it appears that the url is not being parsed correctly due to the semi-colons instead of ampersands; don't know why that would have changed though....
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06:13 < perlmonkey2> no rizen?
06:13 < perlmonkey2> what a slacker...never here anymore.
06:13 <+perlDreamer> sorry, we're rizenless tonight
06:13 <+perlDreamer> Drop him an email and tell him that you'd like to meet one night
06:13 < perlmonkey2> Naw, there is a call for papers for an academic journal
06:14 <+perlDreamer> oooh, which one?
06:14 < perlmonkey2> Thought he might want to submit something or force one of his lackeys to write something
06:14 < perlmonkey2> http://www.cw2008.uga.edu/cw_pages/index.htm
06:14 < perlmonkey2> The subject is open source software, specifically alternative academic CMS's to WebCT.
06:15 < perlmonkey2> My wife and I will be collarborating on a paper, but if he doesn't submit anything, I'll want to talk about WebGUI.
06:15 <+perlDreamer> Go for it!
06:15 <+perlDreamer> He's already booked for like 5 speaking engagements this year
06:15 < perlmonkey2> the trials and tribulations of the FOSS rock stars.
06:15 <+perlDreamer> He does it well
06:16 <+perlDreamer> How goes the ajaxified survey?
06:16 < perlmonkey2> Today I got the hard part finished.
06:17 < perlmonkey2> Now it is just getting something working so the testing/revisioning can begin.
06:17 <+perlDreamer> will you be writing any automated tests for it?
06:18 < perlmonkey2> Next Wednesday I have it reviewed by two researchers who have bought every single survey product offered and hate them all.  So I'm sure they'll be able to tell me what sucks and what needs to be changed.  But I'm working from their specs for now, so hopefully WebGUI will be getting the benefit of two ninja academic survey users
06:18 < perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: I haven't even thought about the Perl side.  It will be very straightforward, but I'll probably have to eventually write automated tests if I ever wnat it in the core?
06:19 <+perlDreamer> perl API level tests would be great, but despite assertions to the contrary, new code without tests is making it into the core.
06:20 < perlmonkey2> hah....that doesn't sound sfae.
06:20 < perlmonkey2> safe
06:20 <+perlDreamer> nope
06:20 <+perlDreamer> The new commerce system will be well tested though.
06:21 <+perlDreamer> and we don't have any infrastructure for front-end testing yet
06:22 < perlmonkey2> Well the front end.....we can run one of those web scrambler thingies that just tries every combination of input :)
06:33 < perlmonkey2> hah, these guys want to be able to have a random element from a number range or list used in a question string, and then remembered for use throughout the rest of the section.  ie. Q1 How do you feel about [red,yellow,green]?  Then depending on which color was randomly picked, Q2 would use that same one.  And that is just one of the crazy things they asked for.  I think the new survey system will really fill a lot of people's needs.
06:33 <+perlDreamer> cool
06:33 <+perlDreamer> we were talking today about a CRM
06:33 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI could have been used by The Perl Foundation if it had a CRM module.
06:36 < perlmonkey2> Hmm.......I have a lot of experience in data mining and profiling web data :D  We could build a CRM that completely exploits all possible information sources on everyone in the DB.  Using neural networks to optimize our bloodsucking customer module :D
06:38 < perlmonkey2> But it seems like it would be intersting to work on.
06:38 < perlmonkey2> But it seems like CRM is more of a organizational process for handling customers supported by technology.  Hmm.....
06:39 < perlmonkey2> s/customers/cusomters,/
06:42 < perlmonkey2> So at its core, a CRM is a technological crutch for the marketing people......But it would need hooks into the commerce system, if just to profile the customer for automated upselling or closing the deal (plus to automatically add them into the system upon purchase).
06:44 < perlmonkey2> I really like Joel Spolsky's use of machine learning in his commerce systems.  Maybe WebGUI could work something like that in there.
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10:34 < metanil> are there any documentation related to WebGUI Dashboard.. and its API
10:34 < metanil> ?
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15:58 < Radix__> Sun have bought MySQL: http://blogs.mysql.com/kaj/sun-acquires-mysql.html/ (and discussion at http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/01/16/135243)
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16:10 < SDuensin> Morning.
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17:21 <@khenn> anyone know the flag to use when untarring a file that preserves privileges?
17:31 <@apeiron_> -p should work
17:31  * apeiron_ notes his _
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18:17 <+perlDreamer> Holy acquisitions, Batman!
18:17 <+perlDreamer> Sun is buying MySQL
18:19 < SDuensin> Whoa.  Hey, at least we'll have good JDBC support.  :-)
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18:36 < perlmonkey2> Fantaisie-Impropmtu in C sharp minor........life is good.
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19:13 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin: Does using java make you schizo?
19:13 < SDuensin> No, that'd be Windows.
19:13 <+perlDreamer> Oh dear.  You use both Windows _and_ Java?
19:14 < SDuensin> Don't get me started.   :-P
19:48  * perlDreamer is appropriately warned
19:51 <+perlDreamer> CIA-19: help
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20:31 <+perlDreamer> preaction: which branches does CIA monitor?
20:31 <@preaction> all
20:31 <@preaction> rather, the entire svn.webgui.org/plainblack tree
20:32 <+perlDreamer> I committed a file to branches/colin_experimental a while ago, and haven't seen anything
20:32 <+perlDreamer> maybe CIA-19 needs some Botamucil?
20:32 <@preaction> most likely
20:33 <@preaction> i've got a friend who made an apparently pluggable bot, imma see if i can make some plugins for him
20:33 <@preaction> otherwise i'll just make a new Bot::BasicBot
20:33 < CIA-19> WebGUI: colin * r5287 /branch/colin-experimental/sbin/testEnvironment.pl: Add a requirement for Test::Class in my experimental branch.
21:16 <+perlDreamer> preaction: Test::Class is not too bad at all
21:16 <@preaction> in what context?
21:16 <+perlDreamer> I started converting WebGUI::Storage over to using it
21:17 <+perlDreamer> and I thought it would be difficult/tedious/etc
21:17 <+perlDreamer> but it's not too bad
21:17 <+perlDreamer> one sub per "block"
21:17 <+perlDreamer> and you use POD to document it
21:17 <+perlDreamer> you can define global and local setup and teardown routines
21:17 <+perlDreamer> test plans can still be dynamically generated
21:18 <+perlDreamer> and Storage::Image will be able to inherit all those tests
21:18 < CIA-19> WebGUI: colin * r5288 /branch/colin-experimental/t/ (Storage.t lib/WebGUI/Storage/Test.pm lib/WebGUI/Storage): Begin converting WebGUI::Storage tests to use Test::Class.
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23:56 <+perlDreamer> preaction: If you haven't already, please set the sticky bit on your new post to the Forum.  It's awesome!
23:57 <@preaction> yeah, i did. it should look like a splat
23:59 < perlmonkey2> Which post?
23:59 <@preaction> my "Before you Post" post
23:59 <@preaction> trying to get some FAQs going
--- Day changed Thu Jan 17 2008
00:00 <@preaction> i want to make a bot for this channel that will search the webgui.org wiki (of course, it'd need permission to run on plainblack.com)
00:01 <@rizen> we can't run IRC related stuff on our servers
00:01 <@rizen> it's part of our data center contract
00:01 <@rizen> however, i'd be willing to let you write a web service api to the wiki search
00:03 <@preaction> i could make a Report asset. it has a hook for searching inside the report. then the report could spit out XML or JSON or some such. something to ponder. the bot thing is a longish-term thing
00:04 < perlmonkey2> This report asset sounds misnamed......should be something like "super-data-extraction-badass-et"
00:05 <@preaction> eh, it's just simple. no limitations
00:07 < perlmonkey2> Maybe I can forgoe the survey report portion of the new survey and just have your reporting tool generate output.
00:07 <@preaction> i wouldn't rely on it. it's meant to be an external thing, not part of any asset
00:08 <@preaction> the survey is an application, so it should report on itself
00:09 <@preaction> the Report is a power-tool. like the SQLReport. worse, it's just a framework, by itself it does absolutely nothing (just nothing with no limitations ;)
00:14 <@rizen> perlDreamer, browse around webgui.org and tell me if you notice anything
00:14 <@rizen> different
00:15 <@preaction> dear jesus
00:16 <+perlDreamer> Interesting new title on the about page :)
00:16 <+perlDreamer> I miss Haarg, though
00:16 <@rizen> it'st not actually on the about page
00:16 <@preaction> it's adspace
00:16 <@rizen> yeah
00:17 <+perlDreamer> Is it random?
00:17 <@rizen> yup
00:17 <@rizen> haven't you ever used webgui's adspace system?
00:17 <+perlDreamer> I tested all the underlying API, but not the front end
00:17 <@rizen> webgui has an advertisement system built in
00:17 <@rizen> ah
00:17 <@rizen> so that's what drives the crowns on webgui.org
00:18 <@rizen> i figured we should advertise the IRC channel
00:18 <@rizen> so that's the ad i came up with
00:19 <+perlDreamer> That's not actually in the logs, is it?
00:19 <@rizen> though it may not seem like it, because we've only really ever put the PBWG up in the crown, that crown space is supposed to be used for advertising community related things
00:19 <@rizen> no
00:19 <@rizen> i couldn't find the place where he said it
00:19 <@rizen> but i remember that conversation
00:20 <@rizen> so i paraphrased
00:21 < perlmonkey2> hah, that is great
00:23 < Radix__> I remember that discussion.. who was iPhoneGuy tho.. I can't recall
00:23 <+perlDreamer> iPhoneGuy == maxscience
00:23 < Radix__> ahh.. that's right
00:24 <@preaction> might've happened on the forums, but it still works
00:24 < Radix__> I don't know whether it's good to call webgui crap tho - even good crap
00:24 <@rizen> it is meant to be funny
00:24 <@rizen> it's not as if i'm calling it crap
00:25 < Radix__> is it?
00:25 <@rizen> perlmonkey2 laughed
00:25 < Radix__> uhuh :)
00:25 <@preaction> i laughed because i remember that drama
00:25 <@rizen> if you like, i could put a line above it in there where iPhoneGuy says it's a pile of crap
00:26 < perlmonkey2> Its like the old saying about democracy.  Worst form of governments except for all the rest.
00:26 <+perlDreamer> I remember part of that conversation
00:26 <+perlDreamer> I came in on the middle of it
00:26 <+perlDreamer> except it wasn't crap it was shit
00:27 <@rizen> i didn't want to say shit on the site
00:27 <@rizen> that might turn some conservative types off
00:29 <@preaction> i could swear that our corporate culture did that already ;-)
00:29 < Radix__> heh
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00:35 <@rizen> there, i changed it to account for Radix_ hesitation
00:38 < Radix__> you did?
00:38 <@rizen> you didn't see the change?
00:38 < Radix__> Ahh.. I see
00:39 < Radix__> yeah, I like that better
00:43 <@rizen> egg salad
00:43 <@rizen> then everyone is happy
00:43 <@rizen> well, except for iphoneguy
00:50 < Radix__> :)
00:50 <+perlDreamer> He'll love the attention.
00:59 <@preaction> http://webgui.pastebin.com/m3bef3c00 anybody have any idea why these three regexen don't always match, even though there are enough data to make a full match
00:59 <@preaction> i'll change it to match a minimum of 0 up to a maximum of $num, but i don't think that's the issue
01:00 <+perlDreamer> ($num) says to match literally $num and capture it
01:00 <+perlDreamer> don't you want curly brackets in there?
01:01 <@preaction> they are curly brackets
01:01 <@preaction> might not be visible because of the horrible highlighting + syntax coloring
01:02 <+perlDreamer> ok
01:02 <@preaction> it works in most cases, but 5% of cases looks like it fails
01:04 <+perlDreamer> Can you nopaste some failing data, too?  I'm stumped
01:04 <@preaction> putting {0,$num} made one formerly failing pass, but 5 formerly passing fail. going to write a proper test script
01:05 <@preaction> unfortunately i can't. the data is client data. imma write a proper test script for it and see if i can't replicate
01:10 <+perlDreamer> well, in that case, I'm going to leave in a huff and renew my driver's license
01:10 <+perlDreamer> :)
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02:18 < CIA-19> WebGUI: graham * r5289 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post/Thread.pm docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt): fix: Collaboration System threads sometimes unable to find next/previous thread
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04:56 < elnino> when I use a redirect in webgui , does it return a 301 or a 302?
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05:18 < CIA-19> WebGUI: graham * r5290 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.4.21 release
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05:33 < CIA-19> WebGUI: graham * r5291 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post/Thread.pm: fix thread next/prev sql
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05:44 -!- Radix-wrk changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.21-stable | WRE 0.8.1 ] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org | Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com/
05:52 < CIA-19> WebGUI: jt * r5292 /releases/WebGUI_7.4.21-stable: Release 7.4.21-stable
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06:34 < CIA-19> WebGUI: jt * r5292 /releases/WebGUI_7.4.21-stable: Release 7.4.21-stable
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16:26 < SDuensin> Morning.
16:31 <@preaction> morning
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18:14 <@khenn> ping Mrhairgrease
18:15 <+MrHairgrease> pong
18:16 < SDuensin> Anybody know an SVN client that's worth a crap for the Mac?
18:17 <+MrHairgrease> svn?
18:17 < SDuensin> Yea.
18:17 <+MrHairgrease> no I mean 'svn' 
18:17 < SDuensin> :-P
18:17 <+MrHairgrease> the command lin eclient
18:17 <+MrHairgrease> works great
18:17 < SDuensin> I want pretty pictures I can drag around.
18:18 <+MrHairgrease> ok
18:18 <+MrHairgrease> so drag your console around on your dektop
18:18 <+MrHairgrease> otherwise
18:18 <+MrHairgrease> i dunno
18:18 < SDuensin> hehe
18:18 <+MrHairgrease> i think tortoise is a gui svn client
18:18 <+MrHairgrease> for windows
18:18 < SDuensin> Yea, it's great.  
18:18 <+MrHairgrease> dunno if it is available for mac
18:18 < SDuensin> I'm just gonna use Eclipse open on an empty workspace.  
18:19 < SDuensin> Nope, Tortoise is Winders only.
18:21 <+MrHairgrease> khenn
18:21 <+MrHairgrease> what do you need me for?
18:21 <@khenn> could you IM me?
18:22 <@preaction> pretty pichars are overrated
18:22 <@khenn> AIM - FRANKLD75
18:22 <+MrHairgrease> i'm not on aim
18:22  * SDuensin likes pichars
18:23 <+MrHairgrease> but is just msg'd you
18:29 < ckotil> This wG Admin Guide Book is nice.n
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21:41 < perlmonkey2> So quiet today.
21:41 < perlmonkey2> Any word on the WG dev book?
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22:06 <@rizen> it's coming along
22:06 <@rizen> probably won't be available until late april
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22:11 < perlmonkey2> Ah, April.  So far away.  I'm sure it will be worth the wait.
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22:31 <@rizen> it's hard because it's being written by the entire pb dev team
22:32 <@rizen> so there has to be time set aside from project work
22:32 <+perlDreamer> s/hard/slow/
22:32 <@rizen> and i'm writing about 5 chapters myself (the most out of the entire staff)
22:32 <@rizen> which is also hard, because i have lots of other things going on with running the company
22:33 <@rizen> i think the book will be worth the wait, but it certainly won't be all encompassing
22:33 <@rizen> there's too much we could talk about to make it all encompassing
22:34 <@rizen> we're just going to get as far as we can as fast as we can, and add more when we have time in the future
22:35 < ckotil> got the admin book. its nice.
22:35 < ckotil> now im not so indispensible anymore
22:36 <@rizen> there's knowledge (which can be contained in the book), but there's also experience, which you have and can't be contained in the book
22:36 <@rizen> you're not indespensible
22:36 < ckotil> i know. im just kidding.
22:36 <@rizen> ckotil, as i was writing that book, i ran out of ideas on what would be useful to cover, so if you find areas that you think should be expanded upon, or that weren't covered at all, please email me those ideas
22:37 < perlmonkey2> rizen: yeah, I can see the dev book being hard to contain the scope.  Where does the WG API end and the other Perl libs begin?
22:37 < ckotil> sure thing.
22:37 < perlmonkey2> How much of H::T should be covered?, etc etc
22:37 <+perlDreamer> None of it
22:38 <@rizen> perlmonkey2: we're covering all the webgui plugin points (assets, macros, auth modules, form controls, etc)
22:38 < perlmonkey2> hah, (see CPAN) for  H::T in the index :P
22:38 <@rizen> as well as some theory points like WebGUI::Session
22:38 <@rizen> but the book contains no API stuff, as that's all available for free
22:38 <@rizen> this is more howto and reasons behind how stuff works type stuff
22:38 < perlmonkey2> cool, well i can't wait.  My knowledge is full of holes that I only fill when I have a problem to solve.
22:39 < perlmonkey2> Be fun to have something that walks me through all of WG in an ordered fashion.
22:40 < perlmonkey2> For now I have to figure out the sanest way to update all the questions and sections at the end of a dragdrop event.
22:41 < perlmonkey2> I'm thinking everytime a dragdrop ends, tell the entire list to step through themselves in order and update themselves if they are in a new place.  But If you drap the first question to the end of the questions and you have 1,000 questions, then all 1,000 will have to update.
22:41 < perlmonkey2> Must be a better way
22:41 <@preaction> perlmonkey2, why not only allow two kinds of moves: 1) move within a section, 2) move to a section. the question is added as the last question in the section
22:42 <+perlDreamer> Sounds like the same problem that the Asset Manager has to handle
22:42 <@preaction> so only one section is displayed at any one time, cutting down on the display time
22:43 <+MrHairgrease> did you benchmark it?
22:43 < perlmonkey2> preaction: If only.....I really wish i could do it that way, but all sections and questions have to be available for DD at any given time, because they need to be targets for dropped answers.
22:43 <+MrHairgrease> if it only takes a fraction of a second who cares
22:43 < perlmonkey2> MrHairgrease: haven't done it yet....not sure that it will be that bad.  Just "feels" ugly.
22:43 <@rizen> perlmonkey2, perhaps go simpler
22:43 <@rizen> sectionId:questionId:answerId:rank
22:44 < perlmonkey2> MrHairgrease: an update will simply seeing if it needs to change its ID and displayed DOM text, and then tell all the answers pointing at it to now point at the new qid.
22:44 <@rizen> send that back to webgui on the drop event
22:44 <@rizen> and then let the backend figure out the rest
22:44 < perlmonkey2> rizen: I wasn't planning on sending an update to WG until they clicked submit.
22:44 <+MrHairgrease> why would the qid change
22:44 <+MrHairgrease> ?
22:44 <@rizen> oh...nevermind then
22:44 < perlmonkey2> MrHairgrease: If they drag Q1 to Q10, then Q2-10 should decrement and Q1 shoudl become Q10.
22:45 <+perlDreamer> MrHairgrease: it wouldn't but you need all that to identify who moved
22:45 < perlmonkey2> rizen: But I really like that idea.  Store nothing client side.
22:45 <+MrHairgrease> oh 
22:45 <+MrHairgrease> i thought you meant the guid of the question
22:46 <@preaction> why would it be a problem that only one section's questions are shown at any given time? clicking on a section head opens that section and closes all the others. then you can DD answers to the questions in it
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22:46 < perlmonkey2> you can only see the answers for the currently selected question.
22:46 < perlmonkey2> the answers UL is populated with the last question's answers.
22:47 <@preaction> can a single answer be linked to multiple questions?
22:47 < perlmonkey2> preaction: But I'm not sure how much that buys me.  It would only mean I'd have to do the update on a single section instead of the entire survey.  
22:47 <+MrHairgrease> wouldn't this work? each question is an object, each answer is an object too. relations are defined by refs to the objects. Also each question has an index
22:48 < perlmonkey2> preaction: No.  A single answer can only fork to one question/section.
22:48 < perlmonkey2> MrHairgrease: That is precisely how I have it.
22:48 <+MrHairgrease> ok
22:48 <@preaction> so why have that second answers area at all? why not have a drill-down-type menu?
22:48 < perlmonkey2> preaction: to keep it simpler.
22:48 <+MrHairgrease> so in that you only have to update the index right?
22:48 < perlmonkey2> preaction: ultimetely I would have hoped for an actual tree.  But DD in a tree was to difficult for my first cut at this.
22:49 <+MrHairgrease> why should you update  all the answers too?
22:49 < perlmonkey2> MrHairgrease: Right, a question knows which answers are forking to it.  So when it changes it tells those answers to change their index to the new one.
22:49 <@preaction> i'd go with martin on this then, build it first and see if there's actually a problem with latency. premature optimization is the root of most evils
22:49 < perlmonkey2> Not an expensive update, but still there.
22:49 < perlmonkey2> hah, very good point preaction.
22:50 <+MrHairgrease> sure
22:50 <+MrHairgrease> but you'll have to change something when moving stuff around
22:51 < perlmonkey2> I need to sit and grok rizens idea of not storing data locally.  
22:51 <+MrHairgrease> that's a good idea anyway
22:51 <+MrHairgrease> b/c if the browser crashes
22:52 <+MrHairgrease> people loose their work
22:52 <+MrHairgrease> but hooking that in afterwards is very easy
22:52 < perlmonkey2> or any number of other problems.
22:52 <@preaction> i'd say keep the javascript dealings. cancelling the asset revision will be different if you have automatic updates during an edit
22:52 <+MrHairgrease> just add a ajax request to each update routine
22:52 < perlmonkey2> yeah, just call the updateData function every so often.
22:53 <@preaction> is editing the survey versioned?
22:53 <@preaction> if not, then just disregard my objections
22:53 < perlmonkey2> I wasn't planning on versioning it.
22:54 < perlmonkey2> They can create copies, which shoudl be good enough.
22:54 <+MrHairgrease> i agree
22:55 < perlmonkey2> Well, since I have to have a functioning prototype by Wednesday, I'll just go with the entire list update on every drag drop for now :)
22:55 <@preaction> the reporting sounds like fun though: person A took the survey at time 1. admin edits the survey at time 2 to remove and add and move and etc... person B takes the survey at time 3. how's that going to work?
22:55 <@preaction> not that i need discussion or justification, just an interesting problem
22:56 < perlmonkey2> preaction: yes, interesting, but I don't know how many survey apps address that issue.  Most surveys collecting real data are not updated after data collection starts.
22:56 <@preaction> indeed
22:57 <@preaction> it's not something that should be worried about in Version 1.0 at least
22:57 < perlmonkey2> hah, thanks for saying that.....my mind got locked on the versionnig problem.
22:59 <+MrHairgrease> asset movements are not versioned for about the same reason
23:11 <+perlDreamer> preaction, if you have a chance, please check out rev 5293 in my branch
23:11 <+perlDreamer> and let me know what you think about the segmenting and ordering
23:12 <@preaction> k
23:12 <+perlDreamer> it's a bit out there...
23:18 < CIA-20> WebGUI: colin * r5293 /branch/colin-experimental/t/lib/WebGUI/Storage/Test.pm: batch conversion, up to the initial delete test
23:20 <@preaction> this is just opinion of course, but i don't know if i like the numbering thing. i liked more the idea of test subs being little test scripts of their own, completely autonomous
23:20 <@preaction> but then you'd probably have it where multiple things are tested in a single sub
23:21 <+perlDreamer> right
23:21 <@preaction> so less granularity
23:22 <@preaction> no matter what the initial tests are created with, though, because of the nature of Test::Class, one sub doesn't have to worry about another sub trampling on its data
23:22 <@preaction> unless it wants to
23:22 <+perlDreamer> yes.  You can see where I shared an object between several tests
23:22 <+perlDreamer> and noted what was used and what wasn't
23:22 <+perlDreamer> in the pod
23:22 <@preaction> yeah
23:22 <+perlDreamer> I love having pod in the tests
23:22 <@preaction> amen to that
23:22 <+perlDreamer> so at least it's now documented
23:24 <+perlDreamer> actually, there's nothing that says I can't put POD in other tests, too
23:24 <@preaction> i still might suggest that instead of the method you're testing, perhaps the behavior you're testing? there might be multiple times one needs to test the get() method, once to test the GUID is gotten right, and once to test... okay bad example
23:24 <+perlDreamer> No, that's a good example
23:24 <@preaction> create(), for example. once for case-sensitive, once for non-case sensitive
23:25 <+perlDreamer> that was how I was going to test it, since that's how it's tested now
23:26 <@preaction> the hardest part of "which methods to test together" remains: where do you draw the line between "related to this" and "unrelated"...
23:27 <@preaction> was going to suggest something about grouping all createCaseSensitive tests (create, getId, getPathFrag, getPath) together, but that's probably too much
23:28 <@preaction> i'm sure it'll become more clear in time
23:28 <@preaction> you can't have both TODO and non-TODO tests in the same sub?
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00:15 <+perlDreamer> preaction: no
00:15 <+perlDreamer> It sux
00:16 <@preaction> not even with another closure in there? those jerks
00:16 <+perlDreamer> haven't tried another block yet
00:16 <+perlDreamer> that might work
00:23 <+perlDreamer> yup, adding scope works
00:26 <+perlDreamer> I like the dynamic planning, too
00:32 <+perlDreamer> in order for these tests to be inheritable, object creation has to be overrideable
00:32 <+perlDreamer> which means it can't be in the test routines
00:32 <+perlDreamer> together with the tests
00:32 <+perlDreamer> it has to be in a routine that the child can override
00:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: colin * r5294 /branch/colin-experimental/t/lib/WebGUI/Storage/Test.pm: 
00:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: Found out that adding scope allows embedded TODOs in methods.
00:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: Got rid of the teardown method, since it's run after each
00:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: test and added the object clean-up to delete.
00:48 < CIA-20> WebGUI: colin * r5295 /branch/colin-experimental/t/lib/WebGUI/Storage/Test.pm: 
00:48 < CIA-20> WebGUI: Clean-up converted tests
00:48 < CIA-20> WebGUI: Make the test inheritable by avoiding hardcoding paths anywhere.
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01:21 <+perlDreamer> preaction: were you concerned about the session variable being a package "global"?
01:22 <@preaction> i didn't notice that, but it might be better off inside the object
01:23 <+perlDreamer> yeah, I'll fix that, too
01:33 <+perlDreamer> Okay, I'm now convinced that Test::Class is "good stuff"
01:33 <@preaction> good stuff indeed
01:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: colin * r5296 /branch/colin-experimental/t/lib/WebGUI/Storage/Test.pm: 
01:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: Encapsulate the session variable into the object.
01:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: Convert over a whole bunch of tests.
01:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: Wrote the first dynamic test which determines the number of
01:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: tests at runtime. Interestingly, it puts the plan at the end,
01:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: which still appears to be valid TAP.
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13:26 < l-e-o-n> hi, i'm having a problem with the new wre 0.8.1, it installs and runs the console perfectly but when i get to add a site when i press add it goes offline
13:31 < l-e-o-n> no one here ?
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15:07 < l-e-o-n> still away ?
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15:10 < l-e-o-n> zZzZz
15:28 < l-e-o-n> Can't locate Class/InsideOut.pm in @INC (@INC contains: ../lib /data/wre/prereqs/perl/lib/5.8.8/i686-linux /data/wre/prereqs/perl/lib/5.8.8 /data/wre/prereqs/perl/lib/site_perl/5.8.8/i686-linux /data/wre/prereqs/perl/lib/site_perl/5.8.8 /data/wre/prereqs/perl/lib/site_perl .) at ../lib/WebGUI/Config.pm line 18.
15:28 < l-e-o-n> i can't start mod_perl
15:29 < l-e-o-n> and i can't find any help
15:29 <+MrHairgrease> did you set your environment
15:30 < l-e-o-n> hmm how ?
15:30 < l-e-o-n> it was working before, i tried an upgrade
15:30 < l-e-o-n> and failed
15:31 <+MrHairgrease> upgrade?
15:31 <+MrHairgrease> from what to what?
15:32 < l-e-o-n> hmm not sure which version i had before, as mysql database failed and couldn't solve the problem so i tried an upgrade to 7.4.12
15:33 < l-e-o-n> forgot which version i had :/
15:33 <+MrHairgrease> oh 
15:33 <+MrHairgrease> i see
15:33 < l-e-o-n> but wasn't that old
15:33 <+MrHairgrease> and you don't have class::insideout?
15:33 <+MrHairgrease> do this
15:34 <+MrHairgrease> type '. /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment'
15:34 < l-e-o-n> did that right now
15:34 <+MrHairgrease> without the quotes of course
15:34 <+MrHairgrease> then do
15:34 <+MrHairgrease> cd /data/WebGUI/sbin
15:35 <+MrHairgrease> and then 'perl testEnvironment.pl'
15:35 < l-e-o-n> perl testEnvironment.pl
15:35 <+MrHairgrease> correct
15:35 <+MrHairgrease> the setenvironment line ensures that perl is now the perl shipped with the wre
15:36 < l-e-o-n> ic
15:36 < l-e-o-n> this is a different thing now :/
15:36 < l-e-o-n> i trid this 3 times
15:38 < l-e-o-n> does it affect if i do . /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment or go into sbin and type ./setenvironment ?
15:38 <+MrHairgrease> you have to use the single dot in front 
15:38 <+MrHairgrease> so you could also do
15:39 <+MrHairgrease> cd /data/wre/sbin
15:39 <+MrHairgrease> . ./setenvironment
15:39 < l-e-o-n> ah ic
15:39 <+MrHairgrease> the dot is a bash construct
15:39 < l-e-o-n> finally :)
15:39 < l-e-o-n> its up
15:39 <+MrHairgrease> i believe it used to be calle source or whatever
15:39 <+MrHairgrease> good =)
15:39 < l-e-o-n> well i had a problem with wre 0.8.1
15:40 < l-e-o-n> as after i upgraded and didn't work i ssaid ok let me just and install the new one
15:40 < l-e-o-n> but for some reason i didn't let me add new sites..
15:40 <+MrHairgrease> oh?
15:40 <+MrHairgrease> strange...
15:40 < l-e-o-n> will try later on next week maybe restalling
15:41 < l-e-o-n> it failed everytime i tried to add a new site from the console
15:41 < l-e-o-n> it went offline
15:41 <+MrHairgrease> did you run the /setup through your browser?
15:41 < l-e-o-n> yep
15:41 <+MrHairgrease> maybe it's a permission problem
15:41 < l-e-o-n> all services where up
15:41 <+MrHairgrease> no
15:41 < l-e-o-n> when i tried to add a new site the console when offline
15:41 <+MrHairgrease> i mean in you filesystem
15:41 < l-e-o-n> yeah it can be
15:41 < l-e-o-n> i'll try next week maybe
15:41 <+MrHairgrease> maybe the /data/domains forlder wasn't set correctly
15:42 <+MrHairgrease> also 
15:42 < l-e-o-n> because it seems good hehe
15:42 <+MrHairgrease> did you run setenvironment prior to starting the wreconsole?
15:42 < l-e-o-n> and i replace the files with the old one from 0.7.2 (the website files and database) will it work ?
15:42 < l-e-o-n> it can be because i was doing ./seteenvironment too
15:43 <+MrHairgrease> if you omit the first dot
15:43 <+MrHairgrease> that won't work
15:43 < l-e-o-n> yep i think that was the problem
15:44 <+MrHairgrease> to go from wre 0.7.2 -> wre 0.8 please read this: http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/migration-to-wre-0.8
15:44 <+MrHairgrease> also
15:44 <+MrHairgrease> one last thing
15:44 <+MrHairgrease> if you start the wreconsole with sudo, it prolly won't work either
15:44 <+MrHairgrease> that is if you do this
15:45 <+MrHairgrease> . ./setenvironment
15:45 <+MrHairgrease> sudo wreconsole.pl
15:45 < l-e-o-n> ic
15:45 <+MrHairgrease> b/c the env is not set for your root session within sudo
15:45 <+MrHairgrease> (i guess)
15:45 <+MrHairgrease> not sure though
15:45 < l-e-o-n> there is something written in the installation procidure help
15:46 <+MrHairgrease> i never restart servers using the wreconsole so i don't need to sudo it
15:46 < l-e-o-n> i prefere ssh
15:47 < l-e-o-n> it gives you more info lol
15:47 <+MrHairgrease> ssh is something diffrent
15:47 <+MrHairgrease> you ssh to a box
15:47 < l-e-o-n> the difference to 0.8.1 is only to setup sites ?
15:47 <+MrHairgrease> no
15:47 < l-e-o-n> or even the webgui itself
15:47 <+MrHairgrease> wre 0.8.1 is completely differen
15:48 < l-e-o-n> ah even the webgui ?
15:48 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@160.sub-75-207-102.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI
15:48 <+MrHairgrease> in order to upgrade to it read the wiki link i just posted
15:48 < l-e-o-n> yep cheers for that
15:48 < SDuensin> Greetings.
15:49 <+MrHairgrease> Greasings
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17:34 <@preaction> ooh, full dance guard today
17:42 < elnino> are there any plans of adding the ability to package a wiki page, add folders to categorize wikis or ability to have custom fields for wikis? - I see none of it in 7.3.22.
17:43 < elnino> I have the need to format the content of a wiki in a particular format.
17:43 < elnino> And I suppose I could just have muliple wikis instead of "folders"
17:44 <@preaction> instead of "Categories" in 7.4 added Tags (or "keywords")
17:45 < elnino> ok that might work.
17:47 <@preaction> userDefined fields aren't in there, but i don't think the wikipage edit form is templatable, and that'd be a bit of a hassle. you're free to RFE for it though
17:50 <@preaction> note the tag cloud on wiki.webgui.org <- that's what the keywords do. then you get a list of those articles with that keyword
17:54 < elnino> actually I think the wikipage edit form is., it's accessible under the properties of the main "wiki" asset. I was hoping the "wiki" was like the collaboration system, where you could edit the properiteis of each thread or "wiki page" but it
17:55 < elnino> 's not quite the same yet.  Maybe in later versions. 
17:56 < elnino> oh never mind. I apparently need more sleep. I have to play with this wiki thing some more. Thanks for your response! I'll think about the tag cloud some more.
18:03 -!- wgGuest63 [n=wgGuest6@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has joined #webgui
18:03 < elnino> ok. here's a question. I have groups that are based on an SQL statemnt that looks at values of cookies to determine if the user is authenticted. (read: no webgui user account)
18:03 < elnino> If I give that group permissins to edit a page, would it still go thru the approval process?
18:03 < wgGuest63> hello
18:03 < elnino> hi.
18:05 < wgGuest63> i have a question, i have a site with several colaboration system.  Each one have the content manager rich editor as default html editor
18:07 < wgGuest63> the problem is when i try to add a thread, all the bottoms of the html editor appear in a vertical form
18:07 < wgGuest63> so the scroll is large to see all of them
18:08 < wgGuest63> is it a error?
18:08 <@preaction> do you have a screenshot of what you're talking about? what browser are you seeing this with?
18:08 < elnino> have you been modifying the template for the cs edit form? or modifing the tinymce? what version are you using?
18:08 < wgGuest63> in firefox
18:09 <@preaction> elnino, it will still go through the approval process, unless of course the user is part of the Group to Approve (then they're assumed to be approved)
18:11 < wgGuest63> in Internet Explorer exists the same problem
18:11 <+MrHairgrease> wgGuest63: that probably happens b/c img tags are set to display: block for images somewhere in you css
18:12 <@preaction> so not really a bug, but something that could probably be handled better
18:12 < wgGuest63> i was checking the apache error log and found some errors related that the file es.js in some path did not exists
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18:15 < wgGuest63> one of the path was /data/WebGUI/www/extras/tinymce2/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/pagetree/langs
18:15 < elnino> Preaction: well that's it, the user isn't a "user" in webgui. and the group that is based on an sql statement has no users in it.so there really isn't a "user". The group's sql simply returns "1" if it's supporting sql returns a recordset of more than one row. So, how would the approval process work without a user id? or maybe 1 is the id of "visitor"? It's been a while since I've done these.
18:15 <@preaction> how can someone visiting a webgui site not have a userId?
18:16 < elnino> your right. And then that's probably why I chose to return "1" it's probably visitor's id.
18:16 <@preaction> most likely
18:17 < elnino> I just woulnd't know what visitior, because they actually do "login" from antoher site.  I did this so that I could tie two sites together. clever if I may say so myself.  I was pretty happy when my idea worked.
18:18 <@preaction> can anyone think of some reason why the asset's autoGenerateForms would be set to 0 and getEditForm method would NOT be overridden?
18:19 < wgGuest63> do you know what is the problem about?
18:19 < wgGuest63> how can i fix it?
18:19 <+MrHairgrease> as i said: it's probably a css problem
18:19 <@preaction> wgGuest63, MrHairgrease said that you have img { display: block; } in your CSS.
18:19 <@preaction> or some other selector that happens to select those images
18:20 <+MrHairgrease> if you install firebug you can 'Inspect' the images
18:20 <+MrHairgrease> and it'll tell you where that is being applied
18:20 <+MrHairgrease> getfirebug.com
18:20 <+MrHairgrease> awesome software
18:21 < steveo_aa> Is there a document somewhere that describes how to properly add a Wobject to a Folder using addChild?
18:22 <@preaction> I'm thinking that the autoGenerateForms asset attribute is unnecessary, since if the WebGUI::Asset->getEditForm is called, that means the programmer wants it to be called
18:23 <@preaction> steveo_aa, did you read perldoc WebGUI::AssetLineage ?
18:23 < bartjol> Mr Hairgrease and me are of for beer
18:23 < bartjol> off
18:23 <+MrHairgrease> i guess so
18:23 <@preaction> b-b-but beer is a happy time!
18:23 <+MrHairgrease> later guys
18:24 < bartjol> e
18:24 < steveo_aa> that perldoc is for addChild, but I guess I need more because that does not describe how to install a functional Wobject::Collaboration object.
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18:25 <@preaction> steveo_aa, are you running WebGUI 7.4? there were changes to Asset->update that makes adding assets through code easier
18:25 < wgGuest63> now i am checking the default submission template and found in the css one line that has that line display:block
18:25 < steveo_aa> Yes
18:26 < wgGuest63> i have to eliminate it?
18:26 <@preaction> steveo_aa, so what's not working about it? did you commit the version tag you made?
18:26 <@preaction> wgGuest63, no. none of the default templates should have created the problem you describe.
18:26 < elnino> wgquest63 - only if it's for img. Did you modify any of the templates?
18:26 < steveo_aa> The perldocs are great at telling what the method can use, but not how to use the tool
18:26 < wgGuest63> no
18:27 < elnino> wgquest - did you have a similar line in with your site's css?
18:27 <@preaction> steveo_aa, the WebGUI Developers Guide will assist in that. it's currently under development
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18:27 <@preaction> colin!
18:27 <@preaction> buddy!
18:27 <@preaction> pal!
18:27 < wgGuest63> i am going to check
18:27 <+perlDreamer> What did I do this time?
18:27 <@preaction> nothing. just saying hi to my buddy
18:27  * perlDreamer starts backlogging
18:28 <@preaction> you do an unbelievable amount of good work for WebGUI, and Test::Class is just one more awesome thing
18:28 < elnino> perlDreamer - that sounds suspicious to me if you ask me.
18:28 <@preaction> maybe it's the fact that i'm having one of those caffiene-loaded energy drinks, my first caffiene in a week
18:28 <+perlDreamer> oh yeah.  that would do it
18:28 <+perlDreamer> Why the need for Friday-caffeination?
18:29 <@preaction> still, i think that autoGenerateForms is useless, since if it's set to 0, the programmer has to override getEditForm
18:29 < steveo_aa> What's wrong with this?  
18:29 < steveo_aa>     my $properties =
18:29 < steveo_aa>       $session->db->dbh->selectrow_hashref(
18:29 < steveo_aa>         "SELECT * FROM Collaboration WHERE assetId=? ORDER BY revisionDate DESC LIMIT 1",
18:29 < steveo_aa>         {}, $asset->getId );
18:29 < steveo_aa>     delete $properties->{ assetId };
18:29 < steveo_aa>     delete $properties->{ revisionDate };
18:29 < steveo_aa>     $properties->{ collaborationTemplateId } = 'NewsCommon000001';
18:29 < steveo_aa>     $properties->{ postFormTemplateId }      = 'NewsPost00000001';
18:29 < steveo_aa>     $properties->{ threadTemplateId }        = 'NewsThread000001';
18:29 < steveo_aa>     $properties->{ className }               = 'WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Collaboration';
18:29 -!- mode/#webgui [+b steveo_aa!*@*] by preaction
18:29 <+perlDreamer> two problems
18:29 <+perlDreamer> 1) you pasted into the channel
18:29 <+perlDreamer> when it clearly and politely asks that you use the paste site
18:29 <@preaction> steveo_aa, pm me when that paste stops sending...
18:30 <@rizen> preaction: you could be right, but only because WebGUI::Asset's getEditForm didn't used to autogenerate
18:30 <@rizen> that used to be a wobject only thing
18:31 <@preaction> so it's just vestigial
18:31 <@rizen> probably
18:31 -!- mode/#webgui [-b steveo_aa!*@*] by preaction
18:31 <@rizen> we'd have to remove it to be sure
18:31 < steveo_aa> Holy cow that's tight policy
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18:32 <@preaction> i've got a plan to write a proper test suite for the definition sub, which should be an exercise in itself. once that's done, we can start changing things
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18:32 < wgGuest63> i am checking my css file and did not find that line
18:32 <+perlDreamer> a test suite for the def sub would be an amazing accomplishment
18:32 <@preaction> steveo_aa, IRC etiquette laws do not keep themselves. they must be enforced. http://webgui.pastebin.com <- pastebin
18:33 <@rizen> steveo_aa: why would you do that?
18:33 <+perlDreamer> making Devel::Cover not puke on $a = $b || sub_that_returns_default would be even better?
18:33 <@preaction> pd: probably
18:33 <@preaction> getting asset properties using SQL is not a good idea, use the API
18:34 <@khenn> I've written a macro which generates a random number using the same logic that WebGUI does for noCache
18:34 <@khenn> so randint(0,1000) . ":" . $session->datetime->time()
18:34 <@khenn> why on earth would calling this macro several times return the exact same number?
18:34 < wgGuest63> preaction, i ckecked my css file and did not find anything related to display:block
18:35 <@khenn> I would assume that each separate call to the macro would generate a new random int before the ":"
18:35 <@rizen> cuz that's how macros work
18:35 <@rizen> if you call the macro with the same parameters
18:35 <@khenn> but calling it several times on the same page produces the exact same number
18:35 <@khenn> ah
18:35 <@preaction> wgGuest63, then you're going to need to give a URL so we can see the problem
18:35 <@khenn> so if we pass in different params the number will change?
18:35 <@rizen> it just assumes you want the same thing
18:35 <@khenn> I get it
18:35 <@rizen> and it will not run the macro again
18:36 < wgGuest63> ok
18:36 < steveo_aa> So there is no documentation for doing what I 'm trying to do.
18:36 <@preaction> steveo_aa, no. you have yet to show us what you're trying to do
18:36 <@rizen> we don't know what you're trying to do
18:36 <@rizen> hehe
18:36 < steveo_aa> The last time I showed you I got banned.
18:36 <@rizen> in other words, don't tell us what you're doing
18:36 <@rizen> tell us what you want to accomplish
18:37 <@preaction> read the /topic, google "pastebin", put your code in a pastebin and give us the URL
18:37 <@rizen> Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com/
18:37 <@rizen> but you shouldn't need code
18:37 <@rizen> to tell us what you want to achieve
18:39 < steveo_aa> I want to clone an object from one folder to another.
18:39 < steveo_aa> Using code
18:39 <+perlDreamer> why not use the API to do a copy and paste?
18:40 < steveo_aa> Because it was requested that it be done in code.
18:40 <+perlDreamer> right
18:40 <@rizen> yes
18:40 <@rizen> you can do it in code
18:40 <@rizen> $asset->cut
18:40 <@preaction> there's a duplicate() subroutine
18:40 <@rizen> $asset->paste
18:40 <@rizen> sorry
18:40 <@rizen> yeah duplicate
18:40 <@preaction> so first duplicate(), then cut the duplicate, and then paste the duplicate. these are in AssetClipboard i think
18:41 < steveo_aa> What if I want to make changes to the object before it is added?
18:41 <@preaction> why not after?
18:41 <@rizen> why not make them after
18:41 <@rizen> damn it, i'm going to shut up
18:41 <@preaction> ;)
18:41 < steveo_aa> Because they are actually going to reside in the same folder for a time.
18:41 <@rizen> preaction types faster than me
18:41 <@rizen> so?
18:41 <@preaction> using update() will make it appear like they were never different. update() doesn't add a revision
18:41 <@rizen> the new one will have a new assetid
18:44 < steveo_aa> I'll try duplicate.  It sounds like what I was looking for when I was told there was no clone function
18:47 <+perlDreamer> The dev book is going to help a lot of people
18:47 <@preaction> steveo_aa, some more clarification about the pasting thing: while your IRC client showed that everything got sent immediately, it didn't send everything immediately, that would've gotten you kicked off the network. So we only got half of it before i stopped you sending to the channel. which is why we kept asking you to show us using the pastebin
18:48 <@preaction> for the future, anyway
18:49 <+perlDreamer> elnino: thank you very much for adding that page to the wiki.
18:49 < wgGuest63> preaction, you can get the screenshot  from the next url http://win.colegiosvirtuales.com/Pantallazo.png
18:49 <+perlDreamer> It's only 5 pages, but you probably just saved us from answering that question about 3 more times.
18:50 <+perlDreamer> that helps a ton!
18:50 <+perlDreamer> uh, s/pages/words/
18:50 < steveo_aa> Sounds like some people are using crappy clients.  
18:51 <@preaction> wgGuest63, i need the URL because i need to see the markup and the CSS.
18:52 < wgGuest63> ok
18:53 < steveo_aa> http://webgui.pastebin.com/d53ab9524
18:54 <@rizen> ding ding ding, we have a winner
18:54 <@rizen> however, you're not following WGBP
18:54 <@rizen> $new_asset should be $newAsset
18:55 < wgGuest63> preaction, the url is http://www.viajesveracruz.com/home/novedosos/cruceros
18:55 < steveo_aa> Camelhump?  Really?
18:55 <@rizen> indeed
18:55 <@preaction> wgGuest63, i tried that already, i think you have a different IP for that domain than i do
18:55 <@rizen> it's not the perl way, but it is the webgui way
18:55 < steveo_aa> I much prefer to use CH in package names and JS
18:56 <@preaction> i hate it equally everywhere, but when in rome...
18:56 <@rizen> in webgui we use CH for everything...database fields and tables, javascript, package names, methods, variables
18:56 <@rizen> sorry, it comes from my days of hacking java
18:57 < steveo_aa> omg
18:57 <@rizen> and wanting my java cohorts feeling comfortable when they came to hack on webgui
18:57 < steveo_aa> No wonder I couldn't Jib WGBP with PBP
18:57 <@preaction> it's just style, and as Dr. Conway says: the most trivial things seem to make for the most venomous arguments
18:58 <@rizen> and he also says, it doesn't really matter what you do as long as you pick a standard and stick to it
18:58 < steveo_aa> No wonder multi-project contractors get headaches.  :)
18:59 <@rizen> perlDreamer, i hadn't looked at tax stuff in the commerce system before
18:59 <@rizen> you did a nice job with that
19:00 < wgGuest63> preaction, i have a problem, one of the server's administrators told me that the site is not online yet
19:03 <@preaction> wgGuest63, then we're probably not going to be able to diagnose. best of luck though. you might want to install firebug and figure out where the display: block is coming from, then make that selector more specific
19:05 < wgGuest63> ok
19:14 < wgGuest63> preaction, i have installed the firebug and have found some lines that have display:block
19:14 <@preaction> so you probably need to change the selector to be less general
19:17 <+perlDreamer> thanks, rizen, although I think it was post hacked by drake so I can't take all the credit.
19:17 <@rizen> since it was drake, you can take all the credit
19:19 < wgGuest63> i am in the html selector
19:21 < wgGuest63> there are some tags that have the display:block
19:22 <@preaction> Firebug lets you edit the CSS live. so start removing some of those until you find the one that fixes it. (click the little circle with a slash to disable that property)
19:29 < steveo_aa> Apparently my PM is blocked
19:29 < steveo_aa> preaction please ICQ me.
19:29 <+perlDreamer> steveo_aa: Do you have a registered nick?
19:30 < steveo_aa> apparently not
19:30 <@preaction> do /msg nickserv help register
19:30 <+perlDreamer> You have to register your nick to PM people on freenode
19:40 <@rizen> it's not conceivable that any locale would charge more than 100% tax is it?
19:41 < perlmonkey2> rizen: I think it is conceivable
19:42 < perlmonkey2> rizen: Lots of smaller countries charge incredible duties products that threaten domestic production.
19:42 <@rizen> ok, but how about greater than 999.99%
19:42 <@rizen> i have the tax field as a float(3,2)
19:43 < wgGuest63> thanks preaction
19:43 <@rizen> but i'm wondering if i should just make it a full float of 11,2
19:43 < perlmonkey2> hah, that sounds crazy high.
19:43 -!- wgGuest63 [n=wgGuest6@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has quit []
19:43 <@khenn> iphoneguy just IM'd me and thinks approves of our new banner on webgui.org =)
19:43 < perlmonkey2> And I'm not sure WebGUI needs to take into account crazy protection taxes.
19:43 <@khenn> s/approves//
19:43 < perlmonkey2> sounds kind of iffy.
19:43 <@preaction> khenn, nice ;)
19:43 <@rizen> ok
19:43 <@preaction> i would say why limit the commerce system if we can avoid it?
19:44  * perlmonkey2 agrees with preaction
19:44 <@rizen> my original thought was to protect users from accidentally typing in big numbers, and to limit the database size (good database design doesn't make the field any bigger than it should be)
19:44 <@rizen> but i guess disk space is cheap
19:44 <@rizen> and it isn't that much more info
19:45 <@rizen> and users don't need to be protected from themselves that much
19:45 <@preaction> and i could swear that floats only take up two bytes no matter what
19:45 <@rizen> someone will yell at them if they put in a huge tax
19:45 <@rizen> ok, follow up question
19:45 <@rizen> is two decimal places good enough
19:45 < perlmonkey2> I wonder how many WG users are in third world countries that are desperately trying to protect their plastic poop market from cheap Chinese imports?
19:45 <@rizen> are there locales that that might charge a wierd tax amount
19:45 <@rizen> like 10.0003%
19:46 <@rizen> or is 10.01 good enough
19:46 < perlmonkey2> Good question....could just keep it at two decimals and always round up?
19:46 <@preaction> i'd just say make it a double and allow users to do whatever they want with it. 8-byte length, but decimals out to 54 places
19:46 <@rizen> that's what i'm doing now
19:46 <@rizen> ah
19:46 <@rizen> a double rather than a float
19:46 <@rizen> not a bad plan
19:46 <@preaction> float is 4-bytes, 24-places
19:47 <@rizen> wait
19:48 <@rizen> that doesn't help
19:48 <@rizen> in mysql you still have to decide how many digits are allowed after the decimal
19:48 <@rizen> so that brings me back to my original question
19:48 <@preaction> you don't have to specify the precision at all
19:48 <@preaction> just DOUBLE with no (1,2)
19:48 <@rizen> i'm looking at the manual and it says you do
19:49 <@preaction> mysql> create table TEST (ha DOUBLE);
19:49 <@preaction> Query OK, 0 rows affected (0.00 sec)
19:49 <@rizen> oh wait, i just found the section that says you don't
19:49 <@rizen> for compatibility
19:50 <@rizen> mysql's native syntax requires it, but the compatibility doesn't require it
19:54 < perlmonkey2> rizen: If I have a properly configured WB instance, kept up to date, can I expect it to protect hosted content that is extremely sensitive?  What I'm asking is, if the machine is compromised, it won't be through WG, right?
19:54 <@rizen> i can't guarantee that
19:55 <@rizen> but yes, we take every measure possible to make sure that webgui is secure
19:55 < perlmonkey2> But there is no history of security issues?
19:55 <@rizen> there have been 5 or 6 times in the past 7 years that someone has found a security hole
19:55 <@rizen> and we patched it same day
19:56 < perlmonkey2> that is an incredible record
19:56 <@rizen> to my knowledge, there has never been a machine compromised due to webgui
19:56 < perlmonkey2> Not many CMS's can say that.
19:56 <@rizen> well, it could be that we just haven't been tested all that hard by really nasty hackers
19:57 <@rizen> or it could be that we
19:57 <@rizen> 've got good people looking at the code and finding problems
19:58 <+perlDreamer> I vote for 3 decimal places, so that you can do 1 and 1/8 % tax
19:58 <@rizen> i did what preaction suggested and just removed decimal precision from the definition of the fields
19:58 < perlmonkey2> Well, just your CMS paradigm seems to predispose you to high security.  But I'll be hosting data that is highly sensitive, yet we really want the convenience of net access to it.
19:59 <+perlDreamer> lucah is incredible at code audits
19:59 <@rizen> yeah, we're really lucky to have lucas
19:59 <@rizen> also, we've passed security audits by at least 2 professional security teams
19:59 < perlmonkey2> If only all my users ran linux, I could just set them to ssh tunnel into the network like a VPN.
19:59 <+perlDreamer> really? I didn't know that
19:59 <@rizen> because of some of the clients we have
19:59 <+perlDreamer> You should publish that
20:00 < perlmonkey2> that is huge
20:00 <+perlDreamer> I mean, to someplace beside the IRC log :)
20:00 < perlmonkey2> hah
20:00 <@rizen> i think we'd have to get permission from the m to publish their names on it
20:00 <+perlDreamer> speaking of which, we all owe Jukka a big thanks for the logs
20:00 <@rizen> indeed
20:01 <@rizen> oh, and we've also passed several federal government security audits
20:01 <@rizen> though i'm not privvy to what exactly they test during those audits
20:02 <+perlDreamer> brian_d_foy posted an article about OSCON talks to O'Reilly net that may be worth a read, rizen
20:02 <+perlDreamer> http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2008/01/18/how-to-tell-your-perl-story.html
20:08 -!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@casr-dev.fwsm2ppuser.ou.edu] has quit ["Leaving."]
20:19  * apeiron feeds the RNG so FF won't randomly crash again.
20:19 <@rizen> i've submitted 5 talks to each OSCON and YAPC
20:19 <+perlDreamer> wow
20:19 <@rizen> plus tavis is going to submit another to OSCON
20:20 <@rizen> both the best and worst case scenario is if all 5 talks get picked up
20:20 <@rizen> which they won't
20:20 <@rizen> well, they might at YAPC if they don't get enough speakers
20:21 <@rizen> but definitely not at OSCON
20:21 <+perlDreamer> You can have your own track :)
20:21 <@rizen> hehe
20:21 <@rizen> i may just use a few of these at WUC'08
20:21 <+perlDreamer> The boys were very excited when they heard they might get to meet you
20:22 <@rizen> i think for the first few days of the week, we should pull a batman and say "oh, you just missed him, he was right here"
20:22 <+perlDreamer> yeah!
20:22 <@rizen> cuz screwing with kids is fun
20:22 <+perlDreamer> Actually, we'll just ambush you at the airport
20:22 <+perlDreamer> and I'll call everyone coming out of security JT
20:23 <+perlDreamer> "Dad!  That's a lady."
20:23 <+perlDreamer> "Well son, there's something that I need to tell you about JT...."
20:23 <@rizen> oh, Sarah says she wants to come out an hang out with kathy during the conference
20:23 <+perlDreamer> I'll let her know.
20:23 <@rizen> she also wants to visit some friends and relatives while she's out there
20:24 <+perlDreamer> It's kind of a group package, though
20:24 <@rizen> so it wouldn't be a total domination of kathy
20:24 <+perlDreamer> 1 wife, 2 kids, 1 golden retriever and some cats
20:24 <@rizen> oh sure
20:24 <@rizen> she knows
20:24 <@rizen> she just really liked hanging out with you guys
20:24 <@rizen> and she thought that maybe we (the 6 of us) could do dinner one or two nights after the conference
20:25 <@rizen> i guess it would be 7 if you count tavis
20:25 <+perlDreamer> with enough notice, we could cut that down by two, and stay out late a night
20:25 <@rizen> well here's your notice
20:25 <@rizen> =)
20:25  * perlDreamer is duly notified
20:26 <@rizen> her step brother also lives in portland, so she'll be spending quite a bit of time over there is my guess
20:27 <+perlDreamer> Nuestra casa es veustra casa
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20:55 <+perlDreamer> I wish Test::Class was a little more flexible about setup and teardown methods
20:55 <+perlDreamer> so that you could say whether a method had one
20:56 <+perlDreamer> you can do that by using different modules (one with and one without setup/teardown), but it seems weird to do that.
21:00 <+perlDreamer> I think all of our tests need to use quotes from The Shawshank Redemption
21:18 < CIA-20> WebGUI: colin * r5297 /branch/colin-experimental/t/lib/WebGUI/Storage/Test.pm: 
21:18 < CIA-20> WebGUI: Made method names to follow WGBP guidelines.
21:18 < CIA-20> WebGUI: Converted random data in quotes from The Shawshank Redemption.
21:18 < CIA-20> WebGUI: Added a simple skeleton method for this test class.
21:18 < CIA-20> WebGUI: Converted 3 more chunks of tests.
21:22 <@rizen> i concur with perlDreamers assertion
21:25 <@preaction> sure it shouldn't be Demolition Man? what's your boggle?
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21:27 <+perlDreamer> is($rizen->concur, $perlDreamer->assert())
21:27 <+perlDreamer> Get busy hackin', or get busy dyin'
21:27 <+perlDreamer> tests just up and disappeared like a fart in the wind, man
21:28 <@rizen> that test has no earthly business being there
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21:28 <+perlDreamer> all they found was a vim editor, worn down to the nubbin'
21:28 <@rizen> $test->areYouGuilty
21:28 <@rizen> it always returns no
21:29 <+perlDreamer> and in list context, it tells you why
21:29  * perlDreamer goes afk to lunch
21:30 <@rizen> and the colosal WebGUi stood there looking magnanamus
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22:05 <@preaction> what's a good name for a single entry in an address book? 
22:05 <@preaction> InfoCard?
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22:11 <@apeiron> preaction, InfoCard is, or rather was, the name of an MS technology dealing with identity -- not sure you want to use it.
22:11 <@preaction> it's close to vCard though, which is a standard for identity info
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22:12 <@preaction> the idea being that this chapter leads into the next chapter (Frank's wobject chapter, if he desires), which is about how to make something that can display and manage InfoCard assets
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22:14 <@rizen> vcard
22:14 <@rizen> business card
22:15 <@rizen> person
22:15 <@rizen> person in rolodex
22:15 <@rizen> address in addressbook
22:18 <@preaction> vcard or infocard sounds good. i need to use something that doesn't sound like it's leading to something else, just in case frank doesn't want to continue the theme
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22:33 < wgGuest78> im having some issues uploading documents using webgui.  it seems from the logs that I dont have permissions set correctly on the public folder.
22:33 < wgGuest78> can anyone tell me what the settings should be.
22:33 < wgGuest78> (im using WRE on osX
22:36 <@preaction> i would guess that the user that apache is running as needs to be able to write to the public folder
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22:39 < wgGuest78> by default in webgui what is the User it runs as?
22:40 <@preaction> webgui runs as whatever the apache is running as.
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22:51 < wgGuest78> thx ill give that a try
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23:59 <@rizen> would you say there have been more, less, or the same number of people coming to IRC since I put the IRC ad up a few days ago?
23:59 <+perlDreamer> maybe a few more
--- Day changed Sat Jan 19 2008
00:00 <@rizen> i know it hasn't been a very long time since the ad went up
00:00 <@rizen> just thought i'd check about the initial results
00:00 <+perlDreamer> has anyone jumped on the VPS bandwagon?
00:00 <@rizen> we haven't launched it yet
00:00 <@rizen> but i'm sure some people will jump on it fairly quickly
00:01 <@preaction> i know at least one client that will probably want it, since they continue to request things of webgui that require custom code
00:01 <@rizen> i'm actually considering changing the os on those boxes to ubuntu rather than cent
00:02 <@rizen> because the data center will only support cent on the vps if we use 64-bit cent
00:02 <@rizen> and that means i have to compile the wre for 64-bit cent
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00:09 <+perlDreamer> ..need a new SR quote
00:09 <@rizen> did you use the magnanamus one yet?
00:10 <+perlDreamer> No
00:10 <@rizen> and the colosal WebGUi stood there looking magnanamus
00:10 <@rizen> mag is spelled wrong though
00:10 <@rizen> magnanimous 
00:10 <@rizen> there we go
00:11 <@rizen> WebGUI is a bit of a rock hound
00:11 <@preaction> i know we have prepareView for content-chunking, but why? is it the expense of instantiating the template? or is it the lack of expense of doing it?
00:11 <@rizen> i'll test one side with alabaster and the other side with soap stone
00:11 <@preaction> if it were expensive, wouldn't we want to send the header before we instantiated the template?
00:11 <@rizen> we do it so that the template can shove stuff into the header
00:11 <@preaction> ha, thanks
00:12 <@rizen> do you need more than those perlDreamer?
00:12 <+perlDreamer> Nope, I'm good
00:12 <+perlDreamer> I did some IMDB surfing and chose :We sat and drank with the sun on our shoulders and felt like free men.
00:12 <@rizen> hehe, i can quote almost the entire movie from memory
00:13 <@rizen> oh, so you're using real quotes
00:13 <@rizen> not the ones i'm interjecting with webgui speak
00:13 <+perlDreamer> Drink it up while it's cold, Gooey's
00:14 <+perlDreamer> You're going to look awfully funny testing my code with no teeth.
00:15 <@rizen> Far as Gooey's concerned, there's only three ways to spend the taxpayer's hard-earned when it comes to testing. More tests. More tests. More tests.
00:16 <+perlDreamer> We should have done this Test::Class thing years ago
00:16 <+perlDreamer> It's good stuff
00:17 <@rizen> I mean, seriously, how often do you really look at Gooey's shoes?
00:18 <+perlDreamer> The following April, WebGUI did websites for half the guards at Shawshank
00:18 <@rizen> hehe
00:19 <@rizen> Java is a dangerous thing. Drive a man insane. It's got no place here. Better get used to the idea.
00:19 <+perlDreamer> I don't have WebGUI stuffed down the front of my pants right now, I'm sorry to say, but I'll get it.
00:20 <@rizen> I like to think Gooey was singin' about something so beautiful it can't be expressed in words, and makes your heart ache because of it.
00:21 <@rizen> Gooey was here.
00:21 <@rizen> you can't beat that one
00:21 <@rizen> it's unbeatable
00:21 <+perlDreamer> We oughta file that under 'Educational' too, oughten we?
00:21 <@rizen> hehe
00:22 <+perlDreamer> "rizen was too"
00:22 <@rizen> I doubt their kick up any fuss. Not for an old hacker like me.
00:23 <@rizen> greatest movie ever made
00:23 <+perlDreamer> Promise me, JT.  If you ever get out, you'll find that spot.
00:25 <@rizen> You've had worse from hacking. What'd you do to set him off?
00:26 <@rizen> ok...got to stop quoting now and actually watch the movie
00:26 <@rizen> it's friday afternoon
00:26 <@rizen> it's time
00:26 <+perlDreamer> time for you
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00:49 <@rizen> I ain't gonna count to 3. I ain't even goin' ta count to 1. You will shut the fuck up or I will sing you a lullabye.
00:50 <@rizen> Hadley is one of the coolest characters ever made.
00:50 <@rizen> And no one could have played him better than Clancy Brown
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01:27 <+perlDreamer> No, he was perfect in that role.
01:27 <+perlDreamer> Maybe Michael Ironside, but he doesn't have Brown's presence.
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01:38 < metanil> i searched wiki but there isn't any information about Dashboard, is there any place to get that information like Dashboard API ?
01:47 <@preaction> the source is really the only way
01:47 <@preaction> it's not a very complicated asset, it just calls the view method of other assets
01:48 <@preaction> in the order that the user specifies (or the default order)
01:48 <@preaction> i was in there fixing things a couple months ago. there isn't much to it really, even though it could use a bit of a cleanup
01:50 < metanil> in some step .. it use shortcuts .. does that mean its creating shortcut asset from real assets??
01:51 <+perlDreamer> yes
01:51 <+perlDreamer> that's part of how you define what a dashboard can use
01:52 <@preaction> looks like shortcuts are the only way you can define what a dashboard can use. the code looks like it's expecting shortcuts
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02:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI: colin * r5298 /branch/colin-experimental/t/lib/WebGUI/Storage/Test.pm: 
02:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI: Convert a whole chunk of tests
02:03 < CIA-20> WebGUI: Try using Test::Differences instead of Test::Deep for small arrays.
02:29 < metanil> I put some articles inside dashboard assets in asset manager. Those article appears while we view dashboard.
02:30 <@preaction> weird. the code seems to want shortcuts, maybe i'm just looking at it wrong. it's some seriously ugly code
02:33 < metanil> :)
02:46 < metanil> in dashboard API i cannot figure out where the content(body) of Asset(say article) is set. 
02:46 < metanil> If the api itself create shortcuts for any asset then does it handle the content to show (within same Article) in dashboard by itself??
02:46 <@preaction> no, it calls the view() method
02:48 < metanil> you mean content=>$child->view .. ?/
02:48 < metanil> (i guess it is)
02:53 <@preaction> yes
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03:30 < metanil> Can i use like 'description.first.100words' while displaying the content of article in dashboard.  I looked around Asset::Shortcut but couldn't find how to do it.
03:41 <@preaction> you'd have to override the template in the shortcut, and give it your own template
03:42 < metanil> hmm..
03:42 < metanil> does getShortcutByCriteria method in Asset::Shortcut will created shortcuts for all assets having their metadata criteria matched. (no matter where those assets resides.. not only within dashboard asset)?
03:45 <@preaction> dunno, i've never seen that method used
03:45 <@preaction> don't rightly know why it's even there
03:45 < metanil> :D
03:47 < metanil> but it seems like interesting to me.. cause it might be able show content in the dashboard according to related "phrase" or "word" given in metadata of any assets.
03:59 < metanil> BTW, earlier you mentioned that i need to change the template in the shortcut to get that. I did already changed it and it worked obviously .. but i do not want to change it in original article template. I just want it apply when showing in dashboard.. Now both original article and dashboard content is get filtered.
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06:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: colin * r5299 /branch/colin-experimental/t/lib/WebGUI/Storage/Test.pm: Convert temporary storage tests.
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07:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: colin * r5300 /branch/colin-experimental/t/ (4 files in 2 dirs): 
07:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: Add some Shawshank quotes for collateral.
07:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: Remove the use of Test::Differences, it's only good for
07:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: ordered data.
07:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: Convert copy method to Test::Class
08:33 < CIA-20> WebGUI: colin * r5301 /branch/colin-experimental/t/lib/WebGUI/Storage/Test.pm: Finish conversion of WebGUI::Storage to Test::Class
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11:48 < af_> Hi, I have to move an existing webgui install to a fresh system. there is any doc about it?
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15:33 < Klaus_> Hi, I'm lookin for an easy implementation for integrating a ticker in webgui. Perhaps within an article and a macro. Is there something in YUI I can use? I haven't yet found something. Any other ideas?
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16:41 < WebGUI> I am tha big cahuna
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18:03 < el_rawyy> Hi, 
18:04 <@preaction> hi
18:06 < el_rawyy> I'm new and I need some help, anyone can?
18:06 <@preaction> perlbot anyone
18:06 < perlbot> Somewhere, someplace, in some universe, somebody uses whatever you just asked about. However, if you actually want help with it, please just ask a question; don't ask to ask, or ask if anyone can help.
18:06 < perlmonkey2> hi
18:06 < perlmonkey2> perlbot help
18:06 < perlbot> (fact) : tell (who) about (what) : (what) > (who) : learn (what) as (info) : relearn (fact) as (info) : phone (phone #) : shorten (url) : shorten it : search (keyword) : cpan (module) : docs (module) : perldoc -f (function) : jargon (term) : math (expr): fortune : flip : host (type) (record) : rot13 (text) : roll (die) : tempconv (temp) : scramble (foo) : 8ball (question) : slap (who) : diss (who) : top/bottom (number) karma : geoip (ip)
18:06 <@preaction> perlbot ask
18:07 < perlbot> Don't ask to ask, just ask.
18:07 < perlmonkey2> el_rawyy: What do you need help with?  
18:08 < el_rawyy> I'm sorry, I'm using ubuntu 7.04 and wre 0.8.1
18:08 < perlmonkey2> Don't be sorry, you were just being polite :P
18:08 < perlmonkey2> What's the problem?
18:09 < el_rawyy> I'm too confused I have an idea and I can't do it in webgui
18:09 < el_rawyy> I want to make a form , and db and I don't know how to make it as a macro?
18:10 <@preaction> you want to make a way for someone to enter data?
18:10 < el_rawyy> I'm sorry again , but I used to be php developer but it is too different with webgui?
18:10 < el_rawyy> My idea is a dictionary.
18:10 < perlmonkey2> el_rawyy: Well, it is different in that WG uses Perl.
18:11 <@preaction> macros shouldn't be used for data entry, as something has to process the form. if you want to make an application, or anything that accepts and stores data, you want to make an Asset
18:11 < el_rawyy> Yeah, I know perl enough to program but I don't know how to make my idea in webgui?
18:11 <@preaction> but, can you not make an interface to an existing dictionary system? it would be easier to make a frontend to Aspell or something
18:13 < el_rawyy> Preaction : You mean I can't make a form in a web page and retrieve data from my sql.
18:14 <@preaction> sure you can, you could even use Macros to do it, but why would you?
18:14 <@preaction> why would you use macros when an asset would be easier?
18:14 < el_rawyy> I thought that macros is easier in programming
18:15 <@preaction> it is easier to program a macro to do what a macro should do than it is to program an asset to do what an asset should do
18:16 <@preaction> it is harder to program a macro to do what an asset should do than it is to program an asset to do what an asset should do
18:16 <@preaction> thusly, since what you want to do is what an asset should do, you should make an asset
18:17 < el_rawyy> Forgive me I'm completely new and my boss force me to use webgui as a developer and I'm lost , I've read wiki and discuss but it wasn't enough to understand how each process.
18:18 <@preaction> hopefully we'll have the developer's guide out soon, but JT says it'll be april
18:18 <@preaction> just power through, slow and steady wins the race
18:18 < el_rawyy> Yeah, but he request from me to do that in 3 weeks.
18:19 <@preaction> you might want to look at the Article wobject first, lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Article.pm, it's just about the most simple asset that exists.
18:19 <@preaction> pay attention to the definition() sub, that's probably the most important thing, and the view() sub, which ties for first
18:20 < el_rawyy> Thank you preaction, for your help.
18:20 <@preaction> if you want to make a copy of the Article and play with it, you'll need to change the package line, the tableName and className in the definition, and then you'll need to make the table in the database with your tableName (and copy the Article table probably). then you can start mucking around
18:21 < el_rawyy> I'm sorry, but one more question?
18:21 <@preaction> Folders are another simpler one, but it does displaying of other assets
18:21 <@preaction> go ahead, that's what we're here for
18:21 <@preaction> and if i'm not here, i expect other people are. we're just about a 24-hour shop
18:22 < el_rawyy> Thank you, for all.
18:23 < el_rawyy> I want to know , when I do some thing like a web page and database and so on , I have to make it through an asset?
18:24 < el_rawyy> I mean like web page design.
18:24 <@preaction> think of an asset as an application
18:24 < el_rawyy> Forgive me all, English is not my native language.
18:24 <@preaction> if it's just a page you're looking for, to give some information to the user, there are already assets that can do that
18:25 <@preaction> a DataForm asset could even do what you've described, keep track of dictionary entries
18:25 <@preaction> if you want webgui to interact with the user in a new way, you're going to need to make an asset
18:26 < el_rawyy> Thank you , I think it is more clear to me now.
18:27 < el_rawyy> I'm going to begin and I will back to you again if you don't mind.
18:28 < el_rawyy> Thank you very much.
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18:30 < perlmonkey2> suck.....took me 10 minutes to read through "Pro JavaScript Techniques" and cover the interesting stuff I didn't know about.
18:30 < perlmonkey2> $45 for that.
18:31 <@preaction> whoops
18:31 < perlmonkey2> Oh well, it is a good reference book also.
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19:59 < Klaus_> Hi, I'm lookin for an easy implementation for integrating a ticker in webgui. Perhaps within an article and a macro. Is there something in YUI I can use? I haven't yet found something. Any other ideas?
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21:27 < WebGUI> If I use a subscription... the WebGUI Content Managers Guide 7.4 says: the user should be added to the appropriate group....
21:27 < WebGUI> I use the 'Cash' payment method
21:29 < WebGUI> yet, when I go to the list pending transactions after a user has requested a payment (and bought me a beer at the local bar) when I click 'complete transaction' the user Admin is placed in the group I created the subscription for, not the user that requested the payment
21:30 < WebGUI> I cannot seem to find any clues nor in the Content managers guide or the commerce primer
21:30 < WebGUI> :)
21:36 < WebGUI> shouldn't the user that requested the payment automatically be added to the product group?
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21:46 <@preaction> that sounds a bit bugg
21:46 <@preaction> y
21:46 <@preaction> but then, i don't think subscriptions were designed with the idea of paying in cash, as they're a recurring payment
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21:53 <@preaction> WebGUI, yes, it's a bug. i'd post it to the bug list
21:55 < WebGUI> oh man
21:55 < WebGUI> why am I alway stumbling upon bug after bug
21:55 < WebGUI> I must be doomed
21:55 <@preaction> you might be able to get around it by using a Product with an Action
21:56 <@preaction> because you're using parts of webgui that most people don't use?
21:56 < WebGUI> because I am using parts that were never designed to be really used?
21:57 <@preaction> plainblack's been using the subscription system since WebGUI Done Right
21:57 < WebGUI> ah
21:57 <@preaction> just not in conjunction with the Cash plugin, since that didn't exist (iirc)
21:57 < WebGUI> but not using manual 
21:57 < WebGUI> yup
21:57 < WebGUI> that
21:57 < WebGUI> now the european people are not into using creditcard
21:57 < WebGUI> cards
21:58 <@preaction> JT has admitted that the current Commerce system is pretty much crap, and he's been busy for the last couple months designing the specifications for the new one
21:58 < WebGUI> so I'll have to hack in using paypall or Ideal or something
21:58 < WebGUI> I know
21:58 <@preaction> did you try using a Product instead? you can add users to groups with products these days
21:58 < WebGUI> but I have an eager brother that wants to be able to sell content from his site 
21:58 <@preaction> buying a product can add a user to a group
21:58 < WebGUI> ah
21:59 < WebGUI> I think I am using a mix of products and subscriptions
21:59 < WebGUI> I think
22:00 <@preaction> laugh. the product uses the current user as well
22:00 < WebGUI> adding payed costumers to a group by hand might be the right solution while JT is still programming
22:00 < WebGUI> hehe
22:00 < WebGUI> so it's flawed anyway
22:00 < WebGUI> :)
22:00 < WebGUI> sounds like some great copy paste programming 
22:01 <@preaction> yeah, there's no way to get the user that's doing it, but please post the bug so that JT knows this is a problem
22:01 <@preaction> i can't comment on what was going on, but when i added that Product Actions Tab thing, i complained long and hard about the state of the commerce system :p
22:02 < WebGUI> hehe
22:03 < WebGUI> and all that helped was to frustrate some people?
22:03 <@preaction> it was planned that the 8.0 release is the release that Commerce will be fixed in. and if JT's speccing it out now, I expect that will be happening sooner rather than later
22:04 < WebGUI> I've mailed it to JT
22:04 <@preaction> there is a bug list
22:04 < WebGUI> and I even sent you a cc of it :)
22:04 <@preaction> i mean, even if it's not fixable because it's an API issue, it's easier to keep track of things on the bug list
22:05 < WebGUI> I know
22:05 < WebGUI> read the pre-able of my e-mail and find out just how lazy I am
22:06 <@preaction> not too lazy to change your nickname :p
22:07 < WebGUI> uh
22:07 < WebGUI> /whoami
22:07 -!- WebGUI is now known as SynGUI
22:07 < SynGUI> that is better :)
22:12 < SynGUI> sooner is often months or even years away though
22:14 <@preaction> yeah, but later is even later ;)
22:17 < SynGUI> are there example site who are using paypal in conjunction with WebGUI to sell content?
22:18 <@preaction> not sure it can be done, since paypal requires you go to their site. i believe there used to be a paypal gateway, not sure if it still works though
22:18 < SynGUI> hmm
22:19 <@preaction> in the contribs section, i mean
22:19 < SynGUI> yea
22:21 < SynGUI> I cannot find anyting in the 'get add ons' section on paypal
22:21 <@preaction> must not work then
22:22 < SynGUI> http://www.webgui.org/etcetera/secure-selling-w/-expiring-download
22:23 < SynGUI> that sound promising but it is old
22:24 <@preaction> wouldn't the payment gateway include some sort of transactionID, which the site can then (a) keep track of and (b) verify using some sort of API?
22:24 <@preaction> i mean, in the request back to the site
22:25 <@preaction> eh. it'll be part of the new commerce system, which of course is of little recourse to you
22:25 < SynGUI> I don't know
22:25 < SynGUI> yea
22:26 < SynGUI> it's a repetition of my life using webgui, I always want to use a part of webgui that hasn't been buillt or completed yet and I always need it now, not in 6 months
22:26 < SynGUI> and paying for it often isn't an option too
22:27 < SynGUI> and having it programmed by someone else or myself isn't either
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22:39 < SynGUI> hey
22:39 < BartJol> hi
22:39 < SynGUI> if it isn't bart
22:40 < BartJol> well it is
22:40 <@preaction> is it?
22:40 < SynGUI> it is
22:40 < BartJol> yes
22:41 < SynGUI> this is what we need... https://www.paypal.com/IntegrationCenter/ic_expresscheckout.html
22:43 < BartJol> for the clothing guy you mean?
22:43 < SynGUI> nope
22:43 < SynGUI> for www.rozekoeken.nl
22:43 < BartJol> ah
22:43 < SynGUI> that together with Ideal
22:43 < SynGUI> and for our own site too
22:44 < BartJol> could eb usefull
22:44 < SynGUI> is vital
22:45 < BartJol> well, apt get it
22:45 < SynGUI> I can see plainblack is only accepting creditcard payments right now
22:47 < BartJol> just here because the driving exam cd crashed....
22:47 < SynGUI> ah
22:47 < BartJol> mm credit cards aren't enough in holland
22:48 < SynGUI> creditcards are not very secure too
22:48 < BartJol> like ov-chipcards
22:48 < SynGUI> hehe
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22:54 <+MrHairgrease> SynQhasAstrangeN: kook in je eigen sop gaar!
22:54 < SynQhasAstrangeN> mistahairgrease
22:54 < SynQhasAstrangeN> :)
22:54 <+MrHairgrease> hoi
22:54 < SynQhasAstrangeN> I allready found out this nice link... https://www.paypal.com/IntegrationCenter/ic_expresscheckout.html
22:54 < BartJol> hey martin
22:55 <+MrHairgrease> bart!
22:57 < BartJol> koen is leaving
22:58 < SynQhasAstrangeN> I'm going to take the A2 now (that's the route 66 of the netherlands)
22:58 < SynQhasAstrangeN> listening to some fine 'de dijk' blues
22:58 <+MrHairgrease> de dijk?
22:59 <+MrHairgrease> well you rather than me =)
22:59 < SynQhasAstrangeN> eheh
23:02 < SynQhasAstrangeN> l8er
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00:39 < Syunk> re
00:40 <+MrHairgrease> Syunk?
00:40 <+MrHairgrease> what happened to synq?
00:41 < Syunk> dunno
00:41 < Syunk> nick name taken
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00:41 < Syunk> probably by me
00:42 <+MrHairgrease> ah
00:46 <@preaction> [16:46] * synq :No such nick/channel
00:46 <@preaction> LIES!
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00:54 < SynQ> that is better
00:55 < SynQ> http://xkcd.com
00:55 < SynQ> specially for bart
00:57 < SynQ> doug: happy now?
00:58 <+MrHairgrease> changing your doesn't make you less a lyer
00:58 <+MrHairgrease> =)
00:58 < SynQ> I didn't deny that though :)
01:00 < SynQ> where is rizen?
01:00 < SynQ> he has no kids, so that can't be why he isn't here
01:00 <@preaction> he's working on managing his time better, so he's getting rid of a lot of his distractions
01:01 < SynQ> ah
01:01 < SynQ> so now we have been degraded to mere distractions
01:01 < SynQ> oh I see, he has left the distractions to be handled by you doug
01:02 < SynQ> but then I have to ask you, are we doing a good job at distracting the replacement handler of JT's distractions?
01:03 <@preaction> let me answer your question by posing another: have i finished my last chapter for the WebGUI Developer's Guide?
01:03 < SynQ> is that a rhetorical question?
01:04 < SynQ> :)
01:08 <@preaction> no
01:08 <@preaction> and no
01:08 <@preaction> but i'm close i think
01:08 < SynQ> great
01:08 <@preaction> another 4-6 hours (to complete another 2-4 pages)
01:08 < SynQ> what is is about?
01:08 < SynQ> it
01:08 < SynQ> the last chapter?
01:13 <@preaction> creating assets
01:13 < SynQ> ah
01:13 <@preaction> though Frank is writing about creating Wobjects, so my scope is limited
01:14 < SynQ> hmm
01:14 < SynQ> Frank the once in a two year tank?
01:14 <@preaction> exactly
01:15 < SynQ> great
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01:22 < SynQ> oi mister hairgrease
01:22 <+MrHairgrease> koen
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08:25 < wgGuest26> Greetings
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15:32 < SynQ> awake
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16:41 < SynQ> mr. hairgrease, awake again?
16:41 <+MrHairgrease> sure
16:41 <+MrHairgrease> like everyday
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17:11 < SynQ> oi Doug
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17:20 <@preaction> oi indeed
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17:55 < perlmonkey2> any day you don't wake up  is probably going to be a bad day.
18:19  * perlmonkey2 had a freak out moment when he almost abandoned all the survey code and start over.....Was going to move everything to a super thin client paradigm, with every object being updated after every change, for about 2K of uncompressed bandwidth for every change to the survey.  But I found a simple elegant solution right before I started fresh.  yay for ephipanies.
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18:23 < perlmonkey2> Crap, my solution was to make each section li have its own ul to contain question li's.  But an event handler for 'click' on the section li means that clicking on a question will always trigger only the section li's click event.
18:23  * perlmonkey2 ponders quiting and digging ditches.
18:26 <@preaction> perlmonkey2, but the "affected element" will be the question LI
18:26 <@preaction> Event.element or something or other
18:26 < perlmonkey2> Hah, create two sepeate ul's inside of a div, instead of having one ul embedded in another.  Then each ul can have its own click event, but the section ul can be a draggable handle for the parent div.
18:26 <@preaction> in this way you could put an onclick even on the <body> and still figure out exactly what element was clicked
18:27 < perlmonkey2> http://www.lostokies.com:81/tree.html create a new section then add a qestion to that new section.  If you click on a question, the section event is fired.
18:27 < perlmonkey2> I guess you can just create a new qusetion and the default section will show the point, but the default section is not draggable.
18:28 < perlmonkey2> When you click on a question, its configuration should show up in the edit div.  But instead the sections config info does.
18:29 < perlmonkey2> But, a parent div with two sibling ul's will work.  Just make the section UL the draggable handle for the entire div.  I'm so glad I went through every example in the YUI lib.
18:29 <@preaction> i do love large javascript applications, but they are a pain in the ass to build :p
18:32 < perlmonkey2> I was thinking about JT's idea of a super thin client.  But then the state of the survey is stored on the server.  And at least 1 DB call will have to be made per click of the mouse in the client.  So everythign would have to be extremely optimized for the user experience not to suck.  Plus I'm not sure how much clockwork it saves me in the client, since the client still needs to know how to update any possible change, or reload the enti
18:34 <@preaction> i think his idea was to do things in Perl, rather than JS where they belong
18:35 <@preaction> i'd agree with him if i didn't spend 2 days doing tree-building and storage exercises in both
18:37 < perlmonkey2> Adding a network layer to the display logic just seems like a whole lot of "hard".
18:37 < perlmonkey2> and JS is a fairly handy language :)
18:37 < perlmonkey2> Plus minimizing the network traffic will make the app "feel" much faster.
18:37 <@preaction> it is. it has a lot of perl-isms that i like. it's not too OO
18:37 <@preaction> objects can be anything, etc...
18:38 < perlmonkey2> yes, I really like that part.
18:38 < perlmonkey2> amorphous things you can just slap together.
18:38 < perlmonkey2> tack on bits when you need to.
18:38 <@preaction> the tricky bits are the browser implementations, but that's what YUI is for. i sometimes wonder if we should've gone with something lighter though
18:39 < perlmonkey2> Okay, it made it ugly, but it worked :) http://www.lostokies.com:81/tree.html
18:39 <@preaction> i have sites where page loads are 200+kB, and they're international sites
18:39 < perlmonkey2> I'm guessing that outer div needs to have the style info with the section ul, and the section ul should have no style.
18:39 < perlmonkey2> ouch
18:39 < perlmonkey2> 200KB is a large site if it isn't cached.
18:40 <@preaction> 200kB is just YUI, not counting the content
18:40 < perlmonkey2> oh, that isn't bad....YUI will all be cached.
18:40 < perlmonkey2> so the first page load sucks, but after that it is a simple ping/no-update taking up 2Xlatency.
18:40 <@preaction> i lied. the entire page is 354KB
18:40 < perlmonkey2> sweet jumping bullfrogs, that is huge.
18:41 <@preaction> that's the home page, with barely any content
18:41 <@preaction> and now that i'm looking at it, these JPGs do not need to be that big. they could be GIFs or PNGs and be much smaller
18:42 <@preaction> a 220x90 JPG is 6KB, in a 24bpp PNG it would be...
18:42 <@preaction> perlbot math 24 * 220 * 90 /1024
18:42 < perlbot> 464.0625
18:42 <@preaction> yay i'm smart!
18:43 < perlmonkey2> hah
18:43 <@preaction> but there's the compression factor
18:43 < perlmonkey2> now if you can do that 100 more times, you'll havea  fast page :P
18:43 <@preaction> oh, dur, it's BITS per pixel, not bytes
18:43 <@preaction> perlbot math 24 * 220 * 90 / 1024 / 8
18:43 < perlbot> 58.0078125
18:43 <@preaction> now we can add compression to 58kB
18:52 < perlmonkey2> Actually the more I learn about JS, the more I like it.  This is kind of fun stuff.
18:53 < perlmonkey2> never thought I'd want to do GUI dev work, as it always seemed so transient.  Maybe its good today, but what have you really accomplished in the world?  But it is a lot more satisfying than I ever thought it would be.
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--- Log opened Sun Jan 20 20:06:20 2008
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--- Day changed Mon Jan 21 2008
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00:06 < dionak> i've removed some sites from our server and it appears that Spectre is still trying to run cron jobs for these sites. does anyone know how to clear out these cron jobs or where the info is stored?
00:06 < dionak> it's filling our logs and causing service issues. 
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01:58 <@preaction> you know the books we write are good when I can learn something from them ;)
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02:10 < SynQ2> and moving from desk to bed
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02:21 < SynQ2> oi radix
02:21 < SynQ2> are you there?
02:22 <+Radix-wrk> yah
02:22 <+Radix-wrk> I'm here
02:22 < SynQ2> how are you?
02:22 <+Radix-wrk> I'm good :)
02:23 <+Radix-wrk> yourself?
02:23 < SynQ2> just fine
02:23 <+Radix-wrk> Good to hear :)
02:23 < SynQ2> I was thinking about you last week
02:23 < SynQ2> when I found all those clippy koala's
02:23 <+Radix-wrk> hehe
02:24 < SynQ2> they are all over the place
02:24 <+Radix-wrk> haha
02:24 <+Radix-wrk> sorry.. I did end up bringing quite a few :)
02:24 < SynQ2> hehe
02:25 < SynQ2> remind me to take a shipload of wooden shoes if I ever come to australia
02:25 <+Radix-wrk> hehe
02:25 <+Radix-wrk> done :)
02:26 <+Radix-wrk> Well I'm eagerly hoping my free playstation3 will arrive this week.
02:27 < SynQ2> wow
02:27 < SynQ2> how come free
02:27 <+Radix-wrk> Sony are doing a deal where they give away a free ps3 with every hidef lcd bought
02:27 <+Radix-wrk> and I bought one just after christmas :)
02:28 < SynQ2> ah
02:28 < SynQ2> good deal
02:28 <+Radix-wrk> nice big 40" lcd - 1920x1080 res
02:28 < SynQ2> not bad
02:28 < SynQ2> still a bit of a low res panel though ;)
02:28 <+Radix-wrk> yeah - hoping the ps3 arrives this week
02:28 <+Radix-wrk> oh? so what do you have? :)
02:29 < SynQ2> 30" dell wrsomething 2056x1600
02:29 <+Radix-wrk> but only 30"!
02:29 < SynQ2> it's the resolution that counts
02:29 <+Radix-wrk> yeah, trying to get anything at that high a resolution is hard tho :)
02:29 < SynQ2> just today I was looking if I could allready buy a higher res screen
02:29 < SynQ2> it sure is
02:30 <+Radix-wrk> there's some cool curved screens coming soon according to the recent CES
02:30 < SynQ2> I bought a new videocard just to do that
02:30 <+Radix-wrk> alienware and NEC both have some funky new thing that's the equivalent of three 22"s all stuck together as one
02:31 <+Radix-wrk> I have 2 x 22" lcd's on my desktop here at work - 3360 x 1050 res
02:31 < SynQ2> hmm
02:31 < SynQ2> I might just buy a second 30" screen
02:31 < SynQ2> :)
02:32 <+Radix-wrk> you'll get a sore neck :)
02:32 <+Radix-wrk> I couldn't give up two monitors myself - had dual screens for years now and couldn't give it up
02:32 <+Radix-wrk> just too handy having two maximized apps on screen at any one time
02:33 < SynQ2> well
02:34 < SynQ2> since I have that 30" i don't like maximized apps som much
02:34 < SynQ2> especially firefoxes
02:34 <+Radix-wrk> yeah
02:34 <@preaction> pfft, virtual desktops work just fine
02:35 <+Radix-wrk> preaction: nah.. I find I like having a dev environment in one window and application running in another.. so handy for debugging gui stuff
02:36 < SynQ2> virtual desktops are handy too
02:36 < SynQ2> but screen real estate is wonderfull
02:37 <+Radix-wrk> this utility is handy on windows for large screens btw - http://reptils.free.fr/
02:39 < SynQ2> and this utility is handy for wasting time http://www.handdrawngames.com/DesktopTD/Game.asp
02:39 <+Radix-wrk> haha.. yes, I've played that one :)
02:39 <@preaction> dtd is pwn
02:40 <+Radix-wrk> I've been playing ogame.org lately
02:40 <@preaction> the multiplayer one they have on casualcollective is fun
02:40 <+Radix-wrk> that's a good timewaster too
02:40 <@preaction> worldofsolitaire.com was built using YUI
02:40 < SynQ2> hmm
02:40 < SynQ2> perhaps I should play ogame.org when I fail at dtd
02:41 <+Radix-wrk> It's very time consuming at the start.. but fun too once you get going
02:41 < SynQ2> hmm
02:41 < SynQ2> it's 1:40 here
02:42 < SynQ2> in the middle of the night
02:42 <+Radix-wrk> heh
02:42 <+Radix-wrk> you're 8 hours behind me :)
02:42 < SynQ2> uh huh
02:42 < SynQ2> is it monday with you then?
02:42 <+Radix-wrk> aye
02:43 < SynQ2> ok
02:44 < SynQ2> then I am indeed
02:45 <+Radix-wrk> go to bed.. even your typing is sounding tired :)
02:45 < SynQ2> I am in bed
03:33 < CIA-14> WebGUI: colin * r5302 /branch/colin-experimental/t/ (4 files in 3 dirs): 
03:33 < CIA-14> WebGUI: Subclass WebGUI::Storage::Test for WebGUI::Storage::Image::Test.
03:33 < CIA-14> WebGUI: The tests are running twice for some reason, and inheritance isn't
03:33 < CIA-14> WebGUI: working correctly, although I thought I followed the POD recipe
03:33 < CIA-14> WebGUI: exactly.
03:33 < CIA-14> WebGUI: Add a testing stub for Storage/Image.t
03:33 < CIA-14> WebGUI: Make sure each testing module returns true on purpose.
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05:48 < CIA-14> WebGUI: doug * r5303 /branch/doug-experimental/ (4 files in 3 dirs): views tab works, i think. view_* methods seem to work. now to build a report sub-class and start testing.
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06:03 < CIA-14> WebGUI: doug * r5304 /branch/doug-experimental/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Report.pm: all the bugs seem to be fixed. now to make the Asset Report asset. another fun JS application
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--- Log opened Mon Jan 21 10:28:10 2008
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13:23 < diakopter> Haarg: ping
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15:33 < SDuensin> Morning.
15:34 < AMH_bob> Good morning!
15:34 < AMH_bob> ow, i hope it's a good one for yiou....
15:35 < SDuensin> Eh.
15:35 < SDuensin> Holiday here for most.  Not me.
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18:48 < CIA-14> WebGUI: colin * r5305 /branch/colin-experimental/t/lib/WebGUI/Storage/ (Test.pm Image/Test.pm): interim check-in while I work on a gcc bug in perl
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20:28 < perlmonkey2> Its the end of the world
20:29 < perlmonkey2> When I remove a dom node with YUI drag and drop events, even after unregistering the events, a new node using the same node id with new events doens't work.
20:29 < perlmonkey2> WTF, it just magically started working
20:29 < perlmonkey2> can anyone here verify this is working?
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20:45 <+perlDreamer> preaction: looking for a favor...
20:45 <@preaction> what up
20:46 <+perlDreamer> I think I found a core perl bug
20:46 <+perlDreamer> I can duplicate it on two different machines
20:46 <@preaction> noice
20:46 <+perlDreamer> Want to try for three? :)
20:46 <@preaction> surely
20:46 <+perlDreamer> check out my branch
20:46 <+perlDreamer> install Test::Class
20:46 <+perlDreamer> then cd into the t directory
20:46 <+perlDreamer> and do
20:46 <+perlDreamer> env WEBGUI_CONFIG=/data/WebGUI/etc/mywebgui.conf perl Storage/Image.t
20:47 <+perlDreamer> with the right WebGUI config file
20:47 <+perlDreamer> you should see this
20:47 <+perlDreamer> Creating image
20:47 <+perlDreamer> *** glibc detected *** perl: double free or corruption (fasttop): 0x0a748208 ***
20:47 <+perlDreamer> at the end of some TAP output
20:48 <+MrHairgrease> pd: couldn't it be that you get the same error on two boxes because both are running the wre and thus the same perl?
20:49 <@preaction> but everybody's running perl 5.8.8
20:50 <@preaction> you might want to include the build flags in the error report, but still
20:50 <@preaction> wait, i don't think colin is running WRE
20:50 <+MrHairgrease> oh ok
20:50 <+MrHairgrease> never mind then
20:51 <@preaction> still loading Test::Class, but i got a site under your branch
20:51 <@preaction> making Chili+Cheese dip for lunch. that + corn chips = mmmm
20:52  * MrHairgrease is more into diner right now
20:54 <@preaction> looks like a no on reproducing under the WRE in MacOSX 10.5 Intel Core Duo (32bit)
20:57 <@preaction> perlDreamer, http://webgui.pastebin.com/m6fa5ec57 <- response
21:06 <+perlDreamer> maybe it's fedora specific
21:06 <+perlDreamer> The two boxes are FC7 and FC6
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21:14 < spnshinquisition> I got an easy question for you guys today
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21:14 < spnshinquisition> I have set up some message boards using the collaboration system - and it sends out an email after each reply - is there an easy way to turn that off?
21:17 <@preaction> it's one of the collab system properties
21:20 < perlmonkey2> Okay, YUI drag and drop manager doens't handle it well when you remove a unregister event handlers on a node id, delete that node, then create a new node with that idea and register new handlers.  It works about 50% of the time.
21:20 < perlmonkey2> So would it be okay to add an attribute to the dom node that isn't standard?
21:21 <@preaction> it might work, try in the a-grade browsers
21:22 <+perlDreamer> re WRE, I don't use the WRE
21:22 < perlmonkey2> Unless I make the id's some sort of random number and create an array to map them to their respective data objects.  That way the event handlers never need to be altered unless the node is deleted.
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22:44 < wgGuest86> hello
22:44 < wgGuest86> i have a question
22:45 <@preaction> you've got questions, we've got answers
22:46 < wgGuest86> i created a colaboration system without any problem but when i go to create a shortcut from this colaboration, i obtain an error
22:46 < wgGuest86> and inmediatly the admin sesssion finish
22:46 < wgGuest86> i dont know what is happening?
22:47 <@preaction> what does the error logs say?
22:48 < wgGuest86> Couldn't call method createShortcut on asset for url: home/tusazon/frutas/prueba Root cause: ModPerl::Util::exit: (120000) exit was called at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Session/ErrorHandler.pm line 231
22:51 <@preaction> there should be something in the modperl error log then
22:52 < wgGuest86> Couldn't execute prepared statement: insert into asset (assetId, parentId, lineage, creationDate, createdBy, className, state) values (?,?,?,?,?,?,'published') : With place holders: nmtweTilSUqqjuQsOHHstA, PBasset000000000000002, old___000001000001000002, 1200945006, 3, WebGUI::Asset::Shortcut.  Root cause: Duplicate entry 'old___000001000001000002' for key 2
22:53 <@preaction> what version is this?
22:53 < wgGuest86> i am going to check the modperl error log
22:54 <@preaction> looks like your lineage got messed up, calling sbin/rebuildLineage.pl should fix it
22:54 < perlmonkey2> What if in the survey editor, no numbering was shown.  Just an unnumbered list of sections and questions.  Order will be discerned upon submitting the survey by examining the dom.
22:55 < wgGuest86> DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Duplicate entry 'old___000001000001000002' for key 2 at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL/ResultSet.pm line 135
22:55 < wgGuest86> this is the error in modperl log
22:56 <@preaction> wgGuest86, read above, your fix is to rebuildLineage
22:56 < wgGuest86> ok
22:57 <@preaction> perlmonkey2, numbering probably isn't necessary, but the server doesn't exactly get things in order, so the javascript would have to assemble the order
22:58 < perlmonkey2> preaction: I was thinking that when they clicked submit, the js would create an in order JSON object to submit.
22:58 < perlmonkey2> The last order of the DOM would be how everything was ordered in the JSON.
22:58 <@preaction> yeah, that sounds like it'd work
22:58 < perlmonkey2> But I think I need to keep numbering in the system.  People wno't like it when they have to refer to question "80th or so".
23:01 < wgGuest86> preaction, after executing rebuildlineage.pl i obtained the next error
23:02 < wgGuest86> DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Duplicate entry 'old___000001000001000014000001' for key 2 at ../lib/WebGUI/SQL/ResultSet.pm line 135.
23:02 <@preaction> that's the same error. what version are you running?
23:02 < wgGuest86> excusem
23:02 < wgGuest86> e
23:03 < wgGuest86> there is not the same
23:03 <@preaction> you're right, it's another instance of the same error. the same cause for the error, but the error is still happening
23:03 <@preaction> now, WHAT VERSION ARE YOU RUNNING?
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23:04 <@preaction> if you're running the latest stable version, i'd post a bug, because that shouldn't happen
23:04 < wgGuest86> no
23:04 < wgGuest86> it is 7.3.18
23:05 <@preaction> then you probably need to upgrade
23:13 < wgGuest86> there is not solution without upgrade
23:15 < wgGuest86> when i execute the rebuildlineage.pl, have to stop the spectre or not?
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23:20 < wgGuest86> and not only with the colaboration systems, if i try to create a shortcut from some asset and obtain the same error
23:20 < wgGuest18> Hi
23:20 <@preaction> can you reproduce on the demo site? if so, post a bug. otherwise upgrade.
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23:21 <+perlDreamer> wgGuest18: Don't be shy.  If you have a question, please go ahead and ask it.
23:24 <@preaction> maybe they're just hanging out
23:24 <@preaction> this is a cool place to hang out
23:24 <@preaction> though admittedly it's usually cooler to hang out with a real IRC client, connecting to irc.freenode.net and joining channel #webgui
23:25 <+perlDreamer> yep
23:25 < wgGuest18> I have a question about the collaborative sistem
23:25 < wgGuest18> Can I do change the order of the post in a collaborative sistem?
23:26 <@preaction> sure, it's on the Display tab of the collaboration settings
23:26 < wgGuest86> preaction,to execute rebuildlineage.pl, have to stop the spectre?
23:26 <@preaction> the special value "Sequence Number" is the same as the order in the asset manager
23:26 < wgGuest18> To ordering how I do want?
23:26 <@preaction> wgGuest86, no
23:26 <@preaction> wgGuest18, yes
23:26 < wgGuest86> ok
23:27 <+perlDreamer> wgGuest18: It will give you several options for ordering
23:29 < wgGuest18> Ok, please
23:33 -!- SynQ [n=koen@k5023.upc-k.chello.nl] has joined #webgui
23:33 < SynQ> hi there
23:33 <@preaction> hi here!
23:33 <+perlDreamer> the man, the myth, the legend returns!
23:33 < SynQ> oeh
23:33 < SynQ> thanks
23:33 <+MrHairgrease> yes here i am
23:33 <+MrHairgrease> =)
23:33 < SynQ> that was just what my ego needed
23:33 <+perlDreamer> I'm hoping for a raise :)
23:34 < SynQ> I think I need to drive my car at least 15 minutes a day
23:34 < SynQ> now I'm frustrated for not been out there on the road in my vehicle
23:35 < SynQ> martin: you should drive more often too
23:35 <+MrHairgrease> didn't you go to your work today koen?
23:35 < SynQ> it can be so soothing
23:35 < SynQ> I worked from home
23:35 <+MrHairgrease> maybe
23:35 <+MrHairgrease> i think i'll have to go to the ikea
23:35 < SynQ> from 8:15 till 17:30
23:35 <+MrHairgrease> so you did drive today
23:35 < SynQ> the Ikea is no place for leet hackers like yourself
23:36 <+MrHairgrease> what's the problem
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23:36 <+MrHairgrease> it is for leet hackers like myself with no mey
23:36 < SynQ> I only drove to the supermarket today
23:36 < SynQ> and back
23:36 <+MrHairgrease> money*
23:36 <+MrHairgrease> how did you go to wrok then?
23:36 < SynQ> that's a 2 minute drive
23:36 <+MrHairgrease> you stayed in Delft?
23:36 < SynQ> I got dressed and sat down at my desk
23:37 < SynQ> I stayed in Dordrecht indeed
23:37 < SynQ> 10:36:47 PM) SynQ: I worked from home
23:37 <+MrHairgrease> yeah so you didn't go to the office
23:37 < SynQ> no I didn't
23:37 < SynQ> to my great regret
23:37 <+MrHairgrease> you should drive more
23:37 < SynQ> I should
23:37 < SynQ> it's good for the climate too
23:37 <+MrHairgrease> socialize with the other drones in the traffic jams
23:37 <+MrHairgrease> you know
23:38 <+MrHairgrease> the fun stuff
23:38 < SynQ> yea
23:38 < SynQ> I call it capsule socializing
23:38 <@preaction> pfft, i wish i lived in a place where i could walk to the grocery store, then i'd never need my car ever
23:38 <+MrHairgrease> i like to socialize in bars though
23:38 <+MrHairgrease> i never walk to the grocery store
23:38 <+perlDreamer> preaction: madcity, dude!
23:38 <+MrHairgrease> i alway go by bike
23:38 < SynQ> hmm
23:39 < SynQ> doug: cars are leet
23:39 <@preaction> ooh bike
23:39 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
23:39 <@preaction> can't bike in the winter, but still the right track
23:39 < SynQ> take for example JT's car
23:39 <+MrHairgrease> the one i used in my sqlform talk
23:40 <@preaction> SynQ, that's stealing
23:40 < SynQ> oh no, bad example
23:40 <+MrHairgrease> i don't think preation is allowed to take jt's car
23:40 < SynQ> is there a way to summon JT into the IRC channel?
23:40 < SynQ> doug, can you call him
23:41 <@preaction> he's doing the accounting thing today and is not to be disturbed
23:41 < SynQ> and tell him that distraction got the better of him?
23:41 < SynQ> pff
23:41 < SynQ> he needs to get out on the irc channel more often
23:42 <@preaction> indeed, he needs to waste more time
23:42 < SynQ> i agree
23:42 < SynQ> it's good for his healt
23:42 < SynQ> heath
23:42 < SynQ> damn keys
23:42 < SynQ> ok
23:43 < SynQ> radix: is aussyland awake yet?
23:44 < wgGuest18> Hi, please i really need the answer about the order of threads
23:44 < SynQ> ah
23:44 < SynQ> first is 1 then 2
23:44 < SynQ> what is the question about the order of threads?
23:44 <+perlDreamer> wgGuest18: Earlier you asked if the order could be changed.
23:44 <+perlDreamer> What order to you want?
23:44 <+perlDreamer> And is it not in th Display tab of the Collaboration System/
23:45 < SynQ> lets spend some carma
23:46 < SynQ> karma even
23:48 < wgGuest18> I want order the thread in a colaboration sistem
23:48 < wgGuest18> But, not for date of modification
23:49 <@preaction> wgGuest18, so what in that list of possibilities doesn't suit your purposes? or how are you wanting to order them?
23:52 <+perlDreamer> wgGuest18: There is ordered by title, ordered by amount of karma each post has, ordered by date submitted.  You can even order them by custom, user defined fields that you have added to posts.
23:53 <@preaction> and if you order by Sequence Number, you can order them completely arbitrarily (the same order as the threads in the asset manager)
23:54 < wgGuest18> Ok, but, How i want create a style of ordening itself?
23:55 <+perlDreamer> Log in as Admin
23:55 <+perlDreamer> Turn on Admin mode
23:55 <+perlDreamer> go to the Collaboration System
23:55 <+perlDreamer> Click on the Edit button next to the Collaboration System
23:55 <+perlDreamer> Click on the tab that says Display
23:56 <+perlDreamer> Find the option called Sort By
23:56 <+perlDreamer> Choose which option you want
23:56 <+perlDreamer> Hit the Save button to update the Collaboration System.
23:56 <+perlDreamer> Then, commit your asset tag to make the change permanent
23:58 < wgGuest18> Ok, i can see that, but what happen if i choose the user defined user 1?
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23:59 <@preaction> then it will be sorted by the user defined 1 field
23:59 <+perlDreamer> user defined fields are extra fields that can optionally added to Posts
--- Day changed Tue Jan 22 2008
00:01 < wgGuest18> oK, how can i do to define a style myself?
00:01 <@preaction> the wiki has an article on how to give webgui your own style
00:01 <@preaction> or do you mean a method of sorting?
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00:07 < wgGuest18> I need ordering the threads according to the user who is the poster
00:07 < wgGuest18> for example
00:08 < wgGuest18> I have three threads
00:08 < wgGuest18> I want to change the first one that i create to the last
00:09 < wgGuest18> and the last to the first one
00:09 <@preaction> your best bet, then, would be to order by Sequence Number and do the ordering in the Asset Manager
00:09 < wgGuest18> How to add a field in a thread?
00:10 <@preaction> you edit the Edit Post template to make a new form field
00:10 < wgGuest18> Ok thanks, i go to test
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00:16 < SynQ> hmm
00:17 < SynQ> karma well spent
00:18 < wgGuest18> It Works, tks
00:19 <@preaction> SynQ, the red lantern RFE?
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00:20 < SynQ> uh huh
00:20 < SynQ> more karma to the red lantern RFE
00:23 < SynQ> doug: got some karma to spare?
00:23 <@preaction> depends on what i'm spending it on
00:23 < SynQ> I see you still have 8931
00:23 -!- wgGuest18 [n=wgGuest1@static-adsl201-232-86-73.epm.net.co] has quit []
00:23 <@preaction> i pumped a bunch to try to get OpenID into webgui core
00:24 < SynQ> 8931 is more then enough to get the red lantern request to the top of the list
00:25 <@preaction> and just why should i waste my karma on a red herring?
00:26 <+perlDreamer> Red herrings go to the second to last
00:26 <+perlDreamer> that's a different RFE
00:26 < SynQ> real karma isn't worth anything
00:27 < SynQ> red herring
00:27 < SynQ> where?
00:27 <+perlDreamer> Sorry, bad joke on my part.
00:28 < SynQ> oh that's allright, I just didn't get it
00:28 < SynQ> I was allready searching the RFE list :)
00:30 < SynQ> ok
00:30 < SynQ> enough karma hunting for tonight
00:31 < SynQ> say hi to JT for me
00:31 < SynQ> I'm going to be
00:31 < SynQ> bed
00:31 < SynQ> let me rephrase that: I'm going to be bad in bed :P
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01:00 <@preaction> okay, for some reason in the real-world i have a macro that doesn't function, but using the same data in my test environment it functions fine
01:01 <@preaction> even running the same version of webgui...
01:01 <+perlDreamer> the arguments are different?
01:01 <+perlDreamer> caching problem?
01:02 <@preaction> does it cache over multiple page loads?
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01:02 <@preaction> the arguments are different, but it doens't matter because if they're the same, they'll get the same output
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01:04 <+perlDreamer> so you're saying that if you put your "page" macro calls into the test env, they fail too?
01:04 <@preaction> nope, they succeed
01:04 <@preaction> doing WebGUI::Macro::process( $session, \"^BreakText( ... );" );
01:05 <@preaction> or similar
01:05 <+perlDreamer> Could you be having quoting problems?
01:05 <+perlDreamer> Macros aren't made for handling that kind of stuff
01:06 <+perlDreamer> every quote in there has to be escaped
01:06 <+perlDreamer> or else the macro processor will die
01:06 <@preaction> wouldn't they manifest by showing something crazy?
01:06 <+perlDreamer> quietly
01:06 <@preaction> oooooooh
01:06 <+perlDreamer> not always
01:06 <@preaction> sunnuva...
01:06 <@preaction> that's it
01:06 <+perlDreamer> sorry, I should have thought of that last week when you brought it up
01:07 <@preaction> not your fault
01:07 <@preaction> i didn't think it died peacefully i thought it died violently
01:08 <@preaction> if only parse::recdescent was decently fast...
01:08 <+perlDreamer> It's not
01:08 <+perlDreamer> but only because of Text::Balanced being slow
01:08 <+perlDreamer> and it's not your macro's fault, it's Macro.pm
01:08 <@preaction> yeah, i wrote a grammar that parsed macros, could only do like 20 per second
01:08 <+perlDreamer> Have you tried a HOP parser?
01:09 <@preaction> no clue what that is
01:09 <+perlDreamer> Mark-Jason Dominus's Higher Order Perl 
01:09 <+perlDreamer> specifies a different kind of parser
01:09 <+perlDreamer> my OSCON notes are at home
01:09 <+perlDreamer> but I think someone put one up on CPAN
01:11 <+perlDreamer> http://search.cpan.org/~ovid/HOP-Lexer-0.032/lib/HOP/Lexer/Article.pod
01:13 <+perlDreamer> HOP is a great book
01:14 <+perlDreamer> because even if you never use anything you learn from it
01:14 <+perlDreamer> it makes you think in different ways
01:14 <+perlDreamer> (without resorting to narcotics)
01:15 <@preaction> it does look nice, and if it's as fast as the regex (or only minor bits slower), we might be able to do it
01:17 <@preaction> looks like it's really lines 138-142 in Macro.pm, the thing that parses between the ^( and );
01:20 <@preaction> isn't there an anchor that matches at the end of the last match for //g patterns?
01:20 <+perlDreamer> \G
01:21 <@preaction> thanks
01:22 <+perlDreamer> some random advice
01:22 <+perlDreamer> build a gnarly test suite
01:22 <+perlDreamer> time it before and after your changes
01:25 <+perlDreamer> that test that is giving me the double free error from gcc?
01:25 <+perlDreamer> It works fine except under Test::Class
01:25 <@preaction> weird
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01:45 <@preaction> just so i understand: i'd run it through my lexer and get a bunch of tokens. once i have the tokens i'd try to make sense of them if i could, a la if ^BreakText(" then the first param will end with a ",  then what's after that will decide what the next param begins with. the lexer should also be able to understand q{ } and etc
01:46 <+perlDreamer> the lexer shouldn't have to understand q{ }, because that's perl, not macro-ese
01:46 <@preaction> right, but if i add that, i can survive most problems with putting HTML through the macro parser
01:47 <@preaction> if some idiot decides to put unquoted HTML through it, they deserve what they get, a la ^BreakText("pattern", <tmpl_var content>);
01:48 <@preaction> i could do q{<tmpl_var content>} and be relatively safe
01:48 <+perlDreamer> but how many users are going to remember the "q" part?
01:48 <+perlDreamer> how 'bout just {}
01:48 <+perlDreamer> or is that valid in JS?
01:49 <@preaction> yeah, JS wouldn't work, there'd be plenty of } and }); in JS
01:49 <@preaction> there's just no way...
01:50 <@preaction> except for the "making an asset" way, which i don't have time to implement... even though i'm very close to completing it
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02:05 <+perlDreamer> I don't think making an asset will help
02:05 <+perlDreamer> what we really need are safe quotes
02:05 <+perlDreamer> "" or '' or something
02:06 <@preaction> right now '' aren't allowed as quotes (they aren't handled as quotes at least)
02:07 <@preaction> i just can't think of anything that can't mess up somehow
02:07 <@preaction> making an asset would negate the need for the BreakText macro, as i'll be able to do what it should do by myself
02:08 <+perlDreamer> it needs some unique, random string of characters, but then you lose ease of use for the user.
02:08 <+perlDreamer> @#$ will probably never, ever occur
02:08 <@preaction> probably, not certainly :p
02:08 <+perlDreamer> true
02:09 <@preaction> something like {''' ... '''} would also never happen
02:09 <@preaction> probably
02:09 <@preaction> but as soon as someone knows the delimiter, they can start mucking things up
02:09 <+perlDreamer> yes, always
02:09 <@preaction> which sucks, because macros can do so many fun things
02:10 <+perlDreamer> except work with HTML and JS and CSS
02:10 <@preaction> we'd be better off with what i like to call Response handlers, which instead of printing the HTML, you give WebGUI.pm an object that it can call the print method on. then you still have template variables accessible to you, so you can play with them if you want
02:11 <@preaction> just like URL and Content handlers are new in 7.5, two more handlers (Session for creating and munging sessions and Response for munging the response right before the print) could expose every bit of the request cycle to custom code
02:24 <+perlDreamer> That's the key right there.
02:24 <+perlDreamer> The macro and template processors need to be smart and interact
02:25 <+perlDreamer> If anyone typed in literal quotes, then their local Admin can shoot them
02:26 <+perlDreamer> but people expect macros to handle template variables
02:26 <+perlDreamer> which then need to be processed recursively for embedded macros
02:27 <+perlDreamer> the problem comes when the template processor expands a variable into some mess to hand to the macro processor
02:27 <+perlDreamer> which then pukes and cries
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03:03  * diakopter pukes and cries
03:04  * preaction gets the mop
03:30 <@preaction> or, theoretically, if we controlled the markup and changed all " into &quot;, then " in macros would survive
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04:28 < vayde> anybody know off hand, if you set +GlobalRequest with mod_perl, that global request is still private to a given request cycle right?
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05:59 < vayde> hey perlDreamer, how's your mod_perl trivia?
06:07 <+perlDreamer> eh, only so so
06:07 <+perlDreamer> Why dost thou ask, noble petitioner?
06:17 <+perlDreamer> vayde: speak, friend, and enter
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06:28 < vayde> +GlobalRequest option.  each request object is still private to a given request as it goes through the cycle right?
06:34 <+perlDreamer> I think so.
06:34 <+perlDreamer> Had to google for an answer, though
06:35 < vayde> what's the downside then?
06:35 < vayde> I can't seem to find any data on it
06:35 <+perlDreamer> http://perl.apache.org/docs/2.0/user/config/config.html
06:35 <+perlDreamer> It sounds like apache does extra work when you set +GlobalRequest
06:35 <+perlDreamer> so throughput would suffer
06:36 <+perlDreamer> ?
06:36 < vayde> so it's a performance thing
06:36 <+perlDreamer> that's my guess
06:36 <+perlDreamer> You're asking Apache to do more work
06:36 <+perlDreamer> The overhead may not be that big, though
06:37 < vayde> hmm.  this program is behaving very wierdly
06:37 < vayde> I've been all over that site, and by their examples, it shouldn't be necessary
06:37 <+perlDreamer> what does it do?
06:38 < vayde> it started just not firing it's cleanup handler for no apparent reason
06:38 < vayde> no warning, no explanation, and worse yet, no error
06:39 <+perlDreamer> "It just started"...
06:39 <+perlDreamer> No updates?
06:39 < vayde> finally one of the guys found a really wierd backdoor way to register the cleanup handler from within the init handler, and not by usint $r->push_handler either
06:39 < vayde> yeah, no updates
06:39 < vayde> extremely wierd
06:39 < vayde> I should say, 'no updates that I am aware of'.  with an outfit like usbank, you can never be sure
06:40 <+perlDreamer> I'd check there first.
06:40 < vayde> too many cooks in the kitchen
06:40 <+perlDreamer> Code just doesn't start breaking consistently
06:40 < vayde> well, we got a workaround going, and it works fine, without needing GlobalRequest
06:40 < vayde> passing the request object explicitly to the cleanup handler
06:41 < vayde> but me being me, I'm still trying to tweak it and understand.  and today it just starts working normally as advertised
06:41 < vayde> last week, putting PerlCleanupHandler <module::name> in the conf didn't fly, today it does
06:42 <+perlDreamer> yeah.  Something else is going on.
06:42 < vayde> the upside however, apart from it working at all now, is the stuff we did made for lke a 500% speed increase
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06:43 <+perlDreamer> maybe something is dying upstream so that the CleanupHandler is never being set
06:43 <+perlDreamer> but it should log an error.
06:43 < vayde> that's what I thought too, but no errors
06:43 < vayde> and it works fine when you register the cleanup handler from within the init handler
06:43 <+perlDreamer> Right, which makes it sound like there's a problem in between
06:43 < vayde> very odd.  we have it working, but I'd still like to know why
06:43 <+perlDreamer> can you drop something in error.log with a warn?
06:44 <+perlDreamer> to make sure it's logging okay?
06:44 < vayde> logging is working fine
06:44 < vayde> now anyway
06:45 < vayde> could well be we didn't dot an 'i' or cross a 't' while the testers were jumping around like organ grinder's monkeys
06:45 < vayde> It really was a mess.
06:45 <+perlDreamer> was.... is :)
06:45 < vayde> hey, how's this for 'bank software':
06:46 < vayde> if ($username eq 'starsky' && $passwd eq 'hutch') {
06:46 < vayde> that was in actual production code.
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06:47 <+perlDreamer> that's scary
06:47 < vayde> yeah
06:47 <+perlDreamer> you do know that this channel is publicly logged, right?
06:47 < vayde> it's fine.  it's gone
06:47 < vayde> I wouldn't have posted it if it was still in use
06:47 <+perlDreamer> was it backdoor/admin code?
06:48 < vayde> couldn't say with these chimps.  I'd like to believe it was something someone put in for a test, and then forgot
06:48 < vayde> but i couldn't say
06:48 <+Radix-wrk> vayde: that's scary.. it really is.
06:48 <+Radix-wrk> but not surprising in the least
06:49 < vayde> naw, remember the story about the infinite number of monkeys with typewriters?
06:49 < vayde> they originally wrote the code I'm hacking
06:50 < vayde> and what's worse, is the division who wrote the crap is up in arms about our 'fixing' it
06:51 < vayde> cos sql injection sites in your code shouldn't be removed apparently
06:53 <+perlDreamer> Of course not, they should be exploited and cost the business millions of dollars in lost business, lawsuits and bad PR
06:54 < vayde> luckily my boss not only knows he hired a barbarian with no political skills, I suspect he likes it.
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07:21 < vayde> interestnig perlDreamer, GlobalRequest or not, the only way I seem to be able to be sure I have the same reference is to pass it explicitly to the cleanup handler from the init handler
07:22 < vayde> mayhap that they are functionally identical, but they're different references to be sure
07:25 <+perlDreamer> there is a way to find out the memory address of an object, which would answer the question definitively
07:25 < vayde> thats what I was doing
07:25 < vayde> well, I was printing the reference to STDERR and comparing the values
07:25 <+perlDreamer> that would do it
07:25 < vayde> though I'm now suspecting my server wasn't fully restarting between tests
07:26 < vayde> stand by for a retest
07:28 < vayde> nope, same behavior.  different memory address even with GlobalRequest
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07:31 < vayde> ahh well, the quest goes on.  Thanks for the help pD.  night all
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10:00 < patspam> is there any good reason why Session::Var::new() re-uses the same sessionId when it creates a new session after one has expired?
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17:05 < BartJol> is someone working on the webgui.org site?
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17:09 < BartJol> hi
17:10 <@preaction> morning
17:11 < BartJol> are you bugging the webgui.org site?
17:11 <@preaction> bugging how?
17:13 < BartJol> it's rather sluggish
17:13 < BartJol> it works, but slowly
17:13 <@preaction> yeah, i'm trying to go to the forums and i can't. i'll check it out
17:14 < perlmonkey2> Will someone finish the survfey system for me?  I resolved all the YUI bugginess issues, so it is ready to go.  I just can't rewrite these methods again......
17:14 < BartJol> thanks, otherwise, I never will be able to get more karma then Koen...
17:14 <@preaction> holy hell, load is at 7 on that box
17:14 <@preaction> and has been for the last 20 minutes
17:15 < BartJol> mmm, doesn't sound good
17:15 < perlmonkey2> hah...7.....that is high
17:15 <@preaction> might be getting ready for 7.5 release perhaps
17:15 < perlmonkey2> a constant 77% cpu useage onmy box is 3.52
17:16 < BartJol> mmm 7.5 has a sluggishness feature?
17:16 <@preaction> it's a quad-core box, so 7 is 60% on all 4 cores
17:16 < perlmonkey2> You build releases on your webserver?
17:16 < perlmonkey2> preaction: I have a quad core.
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17:20 <@preaction> box is under some maintenance due to a problem that cropped up last night, rebuildlineage takes a lot of juice
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17:21 <+MrHairgrease> howdy!
17:21 < BartJol> ah, ok, nice to know that there aren't any real problems...
17:22 < BartJol> MrHair, I've passed my theory exam
17:22 <@preaction> the real problem is somehow a lineage got made that didn't have an asset attached to it, so i don't know if there is or isn't one
17:22 <+MrHairgrease> good show bart
17:26 < BartJol> thanks
17:27 < perlmonkey2> hola, MrHairgrease
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17:44 <+MrHairgrease> stupid university wifi
17:45 <+MrHairgrease> it's always disconnecting me
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18:00 <+perlDreamer> is pb.com slower than molasses in Wisconsin, or is it just my browser again?
18:00  * MrHairgrease will try over the wonderous dut network
18:00 <+MrHairgrease> 4s
18:00 <+MrHairgrease> 5s
18:00 <+MrHairgrease> 6s
18:00 <+MrHairgrease> 7s
18:00 <+MrHairgrease> 8s
18:01 <+MrHairgrease> slow as molasses i guess...
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18:06 <+perlDreamer> Thanks for checking.
18:06 <@preaction> there's some things running on it. it'll probably be back up soon
18:06 <@preaction> before christmas
18:07 <+perlDreamer> Oh, good!
18:07 <+perlDreamer> What are y'all running on it?
18:07 <@preaction> rebuildlineage and clearing cache
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18:14 < BartJol> bye
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18:18 < perlmonkey2> What about a WebGUI module that serves as an internal IRC?
18:18 < perlmonkey2> I think gmail does its IRC by leaving open an ajax handle, and pushing updates.
18:18 <@preaction> the chat module, not quite IRC (since IRC is stateful), was being worked on by danny_mk
18:19 <@preaction> there is a shoutbox that I wrote but haven't released which does its stuff with AJAX. with a couple features and a bit of refactoring it could probably evolve into a sort of almost-real-time chat asset
18:19 < perlmonkey2> is it still being worked on?
18:20 <@preaction> i don't know. haven't seen danny_mk in here in a while. not since the last OpenID spec was released
18:20 < perlmonkey2> does it push or pull updates?
18:20 <@preaction> pull. server push is bad
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18:20 < perlmonkey2> so each client is constantly pinging for new data?  ooogly
18:21 <@preaction> not constant, configurable. but better than the server keeping 30+ connections open (it's a web server, it's not meant to keep those connections open)
18:21 < perlmonkey2> I guess one check per second wouldn't be oppressive and fast enough for chatting.
18:22 <@preaction> plus it's simple enough to make some decent caching algorithm so that the checks are a very minimal hit 
18:22 < perlmonkey2> since on average they'd only wait .5 seconds after the last update.
18:22 <@preaction> i would think 5 or 10 seconds would be better. if they want real-time chat there are better ways to achieve it.
18:22 <@preaction> IRC, or a java or flash application
18:23 < perlmonkey2> I was thinking an intranet irc server.....but our people would moan about installing an IRC client.
18:23 < perlmonkey2> mmmmm, flash
18:23 < perlmonkey2> Flash would handle that very well......and there is a perl flash server module.
18:24 < perlmonkey2> coldfusion I mean
18:24 <@preaction> the Java IRC client