--- Log opened Sat Sep 01 00:00:58 2007
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00:19 < Radix-europe> Greetings from Prague
00:20 < Radix-europe> YAPC finished yesterday.. was fun, though I didn't really learn much perl from it.. most of it went woosh over my head.  Still.. I scored a Learning Perl book to take home and got it signed by Larry Wall, so that'll help me :)
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22:30 <+MrHairgrease> Hey Jesse
22:30 <+MrHairgrease> how's the eurotrip going?
22:30 < Radix-europe> Hey Martin
22:30 < Radix-europe> going well
22:31 < Radix-europe> In Prague atm, off to Berlin tomorrow
22:31 <+MrHairgrease> I thought it was was yapc this weekend.
22:31 <+MrHairgrease> but aparently it's not =)
22:32 < Radix-europe> YAPC::Europe was fun, though most of it went over my head, but I scored a copy of Learning Perl and got it signed by Larry Wall, so I'm happy :)
22:32 <+MrHairgrease> cool
22:32 < Radix-europe> YAPC was from Tues-Thurs
22:32 <+MrHairgrease> oh ok
22:32 < Radix-europe> We caught a train to Prague the day after it
22:32 < Radix-europe> and head off again tomorrow
22:33 <+MrHairgrease> how's prague?
22:33 < Radix-europe> got three days in Berlin to see the place, then we're off to Belgium after that it looks like
22:33 < Radix-europe> Prague is fun, nice cheap beer and has a fun atmosphere
22:33 < Radix-europe> We went and saw a couple of castles today and did a city tour
22:34 < Radix-europe> it's cheaper to buy a half litre of beer than it is to buy 250ml of juice
22:35 <+MrHairgrease> heh
22:35 < Radix-europe> 50cl is less than 1 euro to buy
22:35 <+MrHairgrease> yeah 
22:35 <+MrHairgrease> that's the spirit
22:35 <+MrHairgrease> so I've heard from some friends of mine
22:35 <+MrHairgrease> who've been there
22:35 <+MrHairgrease> aparently beer's even cheaper outside of prague
22:36 <+MrHairgrease> it's insane
22:36 < Radix-europe> though you have to be careful. don't buy beer out in stare mesto with a view.. you pay twice the price
22:36 <+MrHairgrease> omg
22:36 <+MrHairgrease> 2 euros for a pint
22:36 <+MrHairgrease> that's still cheap
22:36 <+MrHairgrease> =)
22:36 < Radix-europe> if you order a beer in the garden out the back, it's 24kc - if you buy it out front it's 65kc
22:36 < Radix-europe> you literally pay for the view ;)
22:36 <+MrHairgrease> pay per view
22:36 <+MrHairgrease> it's the future trhey say
22:37 < Radix-europe> heh
22:37 <+MrHairgrease> =)
22:38 < Radix-europe> Did I send you our blog url?
22:38 <+MrHairgrease> no
22:38 < Radix-europe> jesseandyumi.blogspot.com
22:39 <+MrHairgrease> thanks
22:39 <+MrHairgrease> i'll check it out
22:39 < Radix-europe> Got photos up to first day in vienna so far up
22:40 < Radix-europe> I didn't get much of YAPC tho.. didn't take my camera along
22:40 <+MrHairgrease> too bad
22:40 < Radix-europe> you can find them all on flickr from other ppl tho.. search for the tag yapceu07
22:41 <+MrHairgrease> i was really longing for photo's of flocking men with beards and sandals =)
22:41 < Radix-europe> I know.. that's why I thought you'd like that tag :)
22:41 < Radix-europe> hehe
22:43 <+MrHairgrease> http://flickr.com/photos/maddingue/1280150410/
22:44 <+MrHairgrease> i think that's even a low estimate =)
22:45 < Radix-europe> hehe.. that was a funny talk that one
22:45 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
22:45 < Radix-europe> he used 95% for everything
22:45 <+MrHairgrease> that would be my guess too
22:45 <+MrHairgrease> heh
22:45 < Radix-europe> including 95% of statistics are made up
22:46 <+MrHairgrease> =)
22:46 <+MrHairgrease> are the talks available onliune somewhere
22:46 <+MrHairgrease> that you know of 
22:46 < Radix-europe> Umm.. each speaker seemed to have their own place to put their slides I found
22:46 < Radix-europe> I wrote down a few addresses in my notebook
22:47 < Radix-europe> and every one of them is in a different location
22:47 <+MrHairgrease> hmm
22:47 <+MrHairgrease> oh well
22:47 < Radix-europe> One talk that was interesting
22:48 < Radix-europe> Some guy has created another content management system like webgui - he's way behind technology wise it looked like, but he's doing it solely by himself - called Spine
22:48 <+MrHairgrease> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3828282759372324573
22:48 < Radix-europe> he said he'd heard of WebGUI, but never tried it
22:48 <+MrHairgrease> it is the yapc::Asia though
22:49 <+MrHairgrease> but the same guy
22:49 < Radix-europe> same talk tho
22:49 <+MrHairgrease> indeed
22:49 < Radix-europe> his talk was still in japanese
22:49 < Radix-europe> but with english subtitles :)
22:49 < Radix-europe> the arm wrestle with damian conway was funny
22:50 <+MrHairgrease> you armwrestled damian conway?
22:50 < Radix-europe> lol.. sif
22:50 < Radix-europe> nah.. one of the other guys did for the auction at the end
22:50 < Radix-europe> thomas klausner
22:51 < Radix-europe> they even did it shirtless
22:51 < Radix-europe> the auction at the end was crazy
22:51 < Radix-europe> the next yapc is in copenhagen, so they decided to auction off the guys from copenhagen to do something.
22:52 <+MrHairgrease> http://youtube.com/watch?v=QDK4FdbsySI
22:52 < Radix-europe> they decided that it was going to be a tattoo.. and the decision in the end was to get them all to put swedish flag tattoos on their forehead
22:52 < Radix-europe> that they have to wear for the next yapc
22:52 <+MrHairgrease> copenhagen
22:52 <+MrHairgrease> cool
22:53 <+MrHairgrease> maybe i'll go
22:53 <+MrHairgrease> never been there
22:57 < Radix-europe> Well I'm off to bed.. keep checking the blog.. we'll be putting up more photos and blog entries as we go :)
22:57 <+MrHairgrease> ok
22:57 <+MrHairgrease> will do
22:57 <+MrHairgrease> have a good trip
22:57 < Radix-europe> Will do :)
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21:22 < xootom> hi all, does anyone know how to send private messages in wg? my site doesn't show the send private message link in user profiles like webgui.org :S
21:34 <@preaction> give me a minute and i'll find it
21:36 <@preaction> ?op=sendPrivateMessage
21:36 <@preaction> you'll need a uid too
21:42 < xootom> ah so it's not built into the user profile, is there a user profile template?
21:42 < xootom> i'm sure i read it wasn't yet
21:42 <@preaction> no, profile isn't templatable yet
21:43 < xootom> i wonder how that works on webgui.org
21:43 <@preaction> i can find out
21:44 < xootom> yeah that'd be useful, thanks. do you know what the roadmap is for things like 'whos online' lists, chat, friends lists etc, is it documented publicly?
21:45 <@preaction> chat is being written by danny_mk from here, friends is apparently implemented in 7.5, who's online is possible with a rather simple macro (using active sessions and a single argument specifying the length of time to consider one active)
21:46 < xootom> great, thanks!
21:46 <@preaction> we've got a little pow-wow to get ready for the WUC, so i've got a week in which i get to be bored out of my mind. i'll make that macro and try to get JT's approval for 7.5
21:46 <@preaction> it looks like it's built-in to the profile code, there must be a flag for "Allow private messages" or something
21:47 <@preaction> there is, there's a profile field called "allowPrivateMessages"
21:47 < xootom> yes, such a switch is in edit profile, as you can make the profile hidden and private messages possible
21:47 < xootom> yes, per-user
21:48 <@preaction> if that switch is on, you get the Send Private Message link at the bottom of the profile
21:48 < xootom> i've enabled those for my account and from other accounts there isn't the link, though they can see my profile
21:48 <@preaction> okay, that's weir
21:49 < xootom> hiding email address flag works, and hiding profile
21:50 <@preaction> if you look at line 308 of lib/WebGUI/Operation/Profile.pm it should add the link for the sendPrivateMessage link
21:54 < xootom> my line 308 is        return $session->style->userStyle(WebGUI::Asset::Template->new($session,"PBtmpl0000000000000052")->process($vars));
21:55 <@preaction> above that do you see an if ($session->user->userId eq $session->form->process("uid")) { 
21:55 <@preaction> with an else { block?
21:55 < xootom> it doesn't have an else block, the if just looks like it's showing account options
21:56 <@preaction> what version are you using?
21:56 < xootom> 7.4.5
21:57 <@preaction> yeah, looks like JT fixed that for 7.4.6
21:57 <@preaction> i send send you a link to a diff
21:57 < xootom> ahhh ok, great
21:58 <@preaction> https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/diff/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/Profile.pm?rev1=4627;rev2=4628;mime=text/plain
21:58 < xootom> thanks
22:05 < xootom> that did the trick, thanks! it won't break the upgrade to 7.4.6 will it?
22:05 <@preaction> no, the upgrade to 7.4.6 will replace that code with that code
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20:53 <+MrHairgrease> wow
20:53 <+MrHairgrease> the new wre is awesome
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14:56 < knowmad> Is there a method to get the userId if I only have a username?
14:57 < AMH_henry>  $u = WebGUI::User->newByUsername($session, $username);
15:01 < knowmad> is that a new object or does it create a new user in the db?
15:01 < knowmad> it's a bit misleading
15:01 < AMH_henry> Instanciates a user by username. Returns undef if the username could not be found.
15:01 < AMH_henry> Visitor may not be looked up with this method.
15:02 < AMH_henry> from the documentation :)
15:02 < knowmad> thanks!
15:02 < AMH_henry> yw
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17:25 <+MrHairgrease> hi
17:26 <+MrHairgrease> preaction
17:26 <+MrHairgrease> do you know if the tmpl_var session.isVisitor
17:26 <+MrHairgrease> is available in the navigation template?
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19:00 < sno> Why does WebGUI::FormProcessor::date("recruitStartDate"); return a value but WebGUI::FormProcessor::text("recruitDepartment"); gives undefined on a valid vorm with these values populated?
19:00 < sno> "valid form"
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21:49 < elnino> hello.
21:49 < elnino> apparantly, there is a new "feature" in the upgrade I installed that messed up what I was trying to do, so I'm trying to find an alternative.
21:50 < elnino> I was putting html in the menutitle field to differenciate some menu items. 7.3.22 strips out all html. is this a bug or "feature"?
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22:32 < elnino> is there a way I can put html in the menu title field? where would the code be? 7.2.1 used to let me do this, and 7.3.22 is stripping it out. I need ot be able to have html in the menutitle field.
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00:02 < ckotil> can we resize dashboard items yet?
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00:32 < xootom> ckotil, what do you mean resize dashboard items?
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15:39 < ckotil> xootom: when you add a new item to your dashboard, you cant change the dimensiions of the 'widget'
15:40 < ckotil> at least in version 7.3.22
15:40 < xootom> same as if the item appears anywhere else though, how do you see it working?
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16:10 < ckotil> zoom/pan/scaling/resizing ;-)
16:10 < ckotil> I just feel so locked down and constrained being unable to resize the widgets
16:11 < ckotil> i spent some time yesterday examining whether or not I could leverage the dashboard asset for use as a customer portal. we have lots of small tools that customers use on a daily basis. to have the wrapped up nicely in a dashboard would be ideal.
16:12 < ckotil> but none of the tools would fit in the small confines of the widget. they are long enough, but not wide enough.
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16:14 < SDuensin> Greetings.
16:17 < xootom> could you edit the template and add a fourth column (not sure if it's constrained to use 3 though)
16:17 < xootom> hi SDuensin
16:17 < SDuensin> Hey xootom 
16:19 < xootom> ckotil, with 7.3.22 are you finding that new users get a blank dashboard?
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16:40 < ckotil> i didnt try viewing the dash w/ another user.
16:40 < ckotil> ill give it a shot.
17:07 < ckotil> it is blank, but the assets are available for the user to add from the content list.
17:15 < xootom> yeah same here, it doesn't take on the default look
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19:42 < ckotil> i think thats by design tho
19:42 < ckotil> a default setup might be a good feature tho
19:43 < ckotil> opera works quite well with webgui :)
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21:52 < professorfrink_> i'm building a site in 7.3.22, and i keep running into a couple of weird problems with the control buttons and the admin bar
21:52 < professorfrink_> it's stacking all the buttons in the page and in the content manager's RFE
21:52 < professorfrink_> and not displaying text, only icons in the admin bar
21:53 < professorfrink_> has anyone else seen this?
22:35 < xdanger> which browser?
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23:15 < professorfrink_> i'm using firefox 2.0, but it's happening in every browser i've tried
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16:35 < SDuensin> Greetings.
16:42 < xootom> hi!
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16:21 < rjacobsen> good morning - i have found a bug in webgui and no way around it - when I put the company name in the "Company Name" section of the "Settings" in the "Admin Console" it will not accept a single quote.... if i put in (for example) Granny Pooh's Corner - it always puts in double quote rather than single quote..... any way around this?
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16:48 < SDuensin> Greetings.
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16:56 < rjacobsen> good morning - i have found a bug in webgui and no way around it - when I put the company name in the "Company Name" section of the "Settings" in the "Admin Console" it will not accept a single quote.... if i put in (for example) Granny Pooh's Corner - it always puts in double quote rather than single quote..... any way around this?
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18:03 <@rizen> bug --
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18:06 < elnino> hello.  I recently upgraded to 7.3.22 and I had html tags in some of my menu title fields, and they are now being filtered out. Is there any code I can modify so that webgui wil keep the html code in that field?
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18:11 < xootom> can anyone from pb tell me the difference between the level of support offered with the supported hosting package @ 50 per month that includes unlimited web-based support, and the 1000 per year online support?
18:14 <@rizen> there is really no difference
18:14 <@rizen> it's just that if you're hosting with us, you aren't going to ask as many questions cuz we take care of the environment for you
18:15 <@rizen> the online support is for people who don't host with us
18:16 < elnino> is there any incentive for recommending you as a hosting company  to a friend/company?
18:17 < xootom> i'm thinking of using the supported hosting for a dev/test area, as our main server is now production so it'd be a good place to ensure updates work before hitting live, without having to 'waste a box' here and keep it up to date, would that scenario be ok?
18:18 <@rizen> yup, you know that they're going to get the best webgui hosting available. =)
18:19 <@rizen> we don't allow custom code or ssh access on our virtual hosting accounts
18:19 <@rizen> we have unsupported dev servers available for that purpose for $150 per month though
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18:21 < rjacobsen> good morning
18:21 < rjacobsen> why cant i type in here?
18:21 <@preaction> i don't know? can't you?
18:21 < rjacobsen> i guess i got it workin niow
18:21 < rjacobsen> now
18:22 < rjacobsen> did anyone see what i typed above about the settings in webgui?
18:22 <@preaction> no, it was probably too long
18:22 < rjacobsen> if not ill paste it in again....
18:22 <@preaction> paste != type
18:22 < rjacobsen> ok well the long and short of it is...
18:23 < xootom> ahh so not able to put own macros on shared hosting, what about non-standard tables to use with sql reports?
18:23 < rjacobsen> for some reason if i type Kid's in the Company Name slot in settings it displays Kid"s (with double quotes) on the home page
18:24 < rjacobsen> why is it displaying the single quotes as double quotes and is there a fix?
18:26 < elnino>  hello I had html tags in some of my asset's menu title. I recently upgraded to 7.3.22 and and now they are being filtered out (they weren't before). Is there any code I can modify so that webgui will keep the html code in that field?
18:36 <@rizen> bug --
18:36 < elnino> it's a bug?
18:37 <@rizen> bug --
18:37 <@rizen> no, i'm not talking to you elninio
18:37 < elnino> oh. =)
18:37 <@rizen> as i've stated previously, i don't provide support here, so i can't comment on your question
18:38 < elnino> are you talking to me now?
18:38 < rjacobsen> rizen is there any work around for this bug?
18:38 <@rizen> i have no idea what you're talking about rjacobson
18:39 < elnino> i'm so confused. =)
18:40 < rjacobsen> ok for some reason when i put a company name in the settings box in webgui and it has a single quote in the company name it changes the single quote to double quote when it displays the company name
18:40 < rjacobsen> did you see all that?
18:40 <@rizen> i saw that, but as i just told elnino, i don't provide support here
18:40 <@rizen> if someone else wants to answer you that's fine, but not me
18:41 < rjacobsen> it is a bug in webgui - a sql query is not being escaped in the webgui code - so who can fix it?
18:41 <@rizen> how about you submit it to the bug list like everyone else http://webgui.org/bugs
18:41 < elnino> rjacobsen - I'd would submit a bug report on webgui's site.
18:42 < rjacobsen> and wait 3 months...... i have customers down my throat now that their company name is not displaying right
18:43 < rjacobsen> kinda a big thing since webgui uses what the customer puts in the company name box of webgui for title of the website
18:43 <@rizen> phone support includes priority bug fixes
18:44 < rjacobsen> this is not something i should have to pay to fix since it is obviously something in the webgui coding that is broken
18:45 < rjacobsen> unless your willing to give access to webgui code....
18:45 < rjacobsen> only way you could actually charge for this problem is if i actually had access to the code to modify it
18:45 <@preaction> rjacobsen, you have access to the webgui code, make a patch and submit it?
18:45 <@rizen> you're not paying for us to fix it
18:45 <@preaction> webgui is free, open source under the GPL
18:45 <@rizen> you're paying us to put it a tthe top of our priority list
18:45 < elnino> rjacobsen- are you being hosted by plainblack?
18:46 <@preaction> plainblack runs the same version of webgui as is released on webgui.org
18:46 < rjacobsen> why is this becoming a big problem? it takes 2 seconds to open the code, escape the sql query, and close the code
18:46 < rjacobsen> bug fixed
18:46 <@preaction> post a bug, follow the process. we're fixing bugs today.
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19:10 < diakopter> rjacobsen: graham fixed that two weeks ago: https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/diff/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/HTML.pm?rev1=4616;rev2=4617
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19:53 < sanyock> Hi All, please let me know to whom it is better to contact for submitting small patches for issues like: http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/not-able-to-call-stored-procedures-from-94sql-macro/1
19:55 < sanyock> if a patch is done according to http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/subversion
19:55 <@rizen> if you submit the patch as an RFE,  it will be added to the next dev cycle
19:55 <@rizen> submitting it as a bug means that it will go into the current stable, and we don't allow new features in the current stable
19:56 < sanyock> did you split SVN into two branches?
19:56 < sanyock> stable and beta?
19:56 <@rizen> 7.5 hasn't been branched yet
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20:00 < sanyock> would a patch for stored procedures be accepted, do you have any policy on usefulness of feature to be included ?
20:00 <@rizen> if i tested it and it worked, it would be allowed
20:00 <@rizen> stored procedures are generically useful to lots of people
20:00 < sanyock> thanks
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20:04 < sanyock> what is preferred development environment of WebGUI developers? For example java people use eclipse
20:04 <@rizen> most use vim
20:05 <@rizen> most don't use an ide
20:05 < sanyock> :)
20:05  * sanyock prefers nano
20:05 < sanyock> how about debugging, sure stored proc issue does not need it but for other things it may be needed
20:06 <@rizen> as long as you conform to the best practices, you may use whatever you like
20:06 < sanyock> I just wonder to save time  on selection
20:06 <@rizen> you know how to put webgui into debug mode, right?
20:06 < sanyock> only for SQL reports
20:07 <@rizen> admin console > settings > miscellaneous > show debug
20:07 < sanyock> I saw it but did not try yet
20:56 < elnino> I recently upgraded to 7.3.22 and I had html tags in some of my menu title fields, and they are now being filtered out. is this a bug or was it intended?
21:04 <@rizen> bug --
21:04 <@rizen> bug --
21:04 <@rizen> bug --
21:07 <@rizen> bug --
21:09 < elnino> I'm assuming you're talking to me this time? =)
21:11 <@rizen> bug --
21:11 <@rizen> bug -- has nothing to do with you
21:11 <@rizen> it means a bug has been fixed
21:11 <@rizen> it's not directed AT anyone
21:11 <@rizen> just FYI
21:12 < elnino> oh. now I get it. I'm very glad you are squashing a bunch of bugs today. Good job!
21:24 <@rizen> bug --
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21:28 <@rizen> bug --
21:38 < elnino> hi. I'm still wondering if stripping html from an assets menutitle is intentional or a bug.
21:38 <@rizen> intentional
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21:54 < elnino> if it's intentional, can you point me to the pm file that I may modify to remove this? It used to work in 7.2.1 and it was a bit of a surprise when it was changed.
21:55 <@rizen> i'm afraid not
21:55 <@rizen> bug --
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22:01 < elnino> ok, then can you suggest an alternative method in stylizing the menu title independantly from the stucture of the site?
22:02 <@rizen> i don't provide support here
22:11 < ckotil> does webgui support ldaps?
22:11 <@rizen> not currently
22:11 <@rizen> you have to use it over stunnel
22:11 <@rizen> if you want it encrypted
22:11 < ckotil> ya. i do that for my db connection now.
22:12 < ckotil> do you have a timeframe in mind for ldaps?
22:12 <@rizen> nope...it's in the RFE list i think
22:12 < ckotil> kthx.
22:19 < ckotil> its kind of obscure, but its there. http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/ldap2
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22:53 <@rizen> bug --
22:53 <@rizen> bug --
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18:26 <+MrHairgrease> hi
18:26 <+MrHairgrease> so i have this weird behaviour
18:27 <+MrHairgrease> and i'm wondering if you've seen it too
18:27 <+MrHairgrease> what happens is that all of a sudden saving a snippet will blow up apache
18:27 <+MrHairgrease> getting it to use 99.9% cpu
18:27 <+MrHairgrease> before it saved easily
18:28 <+MrHairgrease> now the weird thing comes
18:28 <+MrHairgrease> the former save was done with firefox
18:28 <+MrHairgrease> so i tried with opera
18:28 <+MrHairgrease> nothing wrong
18:28 <+MrHairgrease> the snippet saves no infinite loop
18:29 <+MrHairgrease> i clear everything in firefox (cookies, cache, etc) even close it and start it again
18:29 <+MrHairgrease> try to save that snippet once again
18:29 <+MrHairgrease> bam, the server blows up
18:29 <+MrHairgrease> other snippets work fine
18:29 <+MrHairgrease> opera also still saves correctly
18:30 <+MrHairgrease> so i decide to use opera to save that particular asset for the time being
18:30 <+MrHairgrease> now the even weirder part comes
18:30 <+MrHairgrease> after a number of saves using opera the server blows up again
18:31 <+MrHairgrease> but currently it's working again under firefox.
18:31 <+MrHairgrease> I cannot figure out what's triggering it
18:31 <+MrHairgrease> it's on 7.4.2
18:31 <+MrHairgrease> anybody seen this behaviour too?
18:32 <+MrHairgrease> I've seen it happen on my laptop, my colleague's iBook and Arjan has seen it too.
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16:08 < SDuensin> Welcome to Monday.
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23:06 <+MrHairgrease> rizen
23:07 <+MrHairgrease> or someone else
23:07 <@rizen> mhg
23:07 <+MrHairgrease> a quick question
23:07 <@rizen> yes, i know your mom works that street corner
23:07 <@rizen> but my girls gotta eat too
23:07 <+MrHairgrease> is it possible to make a nav containing previous/next page links relative to the current page
23:08 <+MrHairgrease> next and previous would be the sibling next to the current page
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23:08 <+MrHairgrease> i need to know for my wuc presentation
23:09 <@rizen> not any way i can think of using the current variables
23:10 <@rizen> well...i guess you could load all the data into a javascript structure
23:10 <@rizen> and then you'd know whether there was a prev / next page
23:10 <@rizen> for the current page
23:10 <@rizen> because you could check array lengths and such
23:10 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
23:11 <+MrHairgrease> that crossed my mind too
23:11 <+MrHairgrease> oh well
23:11 <+MrHairgrease> javascript would be good for acme i guess
23:11 <+MrHairgrease> thanks
23:11 <@rizen> np
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--- Day changed Tue Sep 11 2007
00:06 <+MrHairgrease> the javascript thingy did the trick btw
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01:41 <@preaction> does anyone think people would be interested in a patch to switch to graphics magic in 7.3.22?
01:41 <@preaction> and/or a small shell script to translate custom code to use graphics magic?
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03:23 < wgGuest63> hello everyone!
03:23 < wgGuest63> I have a question for you all . . . 
03:26 < wgGuest63> has anyone in here used webgui for a school or university?
03:26 < rizen_> dozens of our clients are universities and schools
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03:28 <@rizen> the 8th and 9th largest school districts in the US use WebGUI (Philadelphia School District and the Hawaii Department of Education)
03:30 < wgGuest63> excellent
03:31 < wgGuest63> I'm the network administrator and helpdesk manager for our college in Chicago, IL
03:31 <@rizen> Cool.
03:31 < wgGuest63> and we currently have a unix server running Fedora 7 with the basic public_html directories
03:31 < wgGuest63> nothing fancy
03:31 < wgGuest63> www.site.com/~username
03:32 < wgGuest63> but a small % of instructors use this
03:32 < wgGuest63> and webgui seems like it will make everyone's life easier
03:32 < wgGuest63> but
03:33 < wgGuest63> as far as transitioing goes, . . . what are the URL's for a user that, . . let say registers and builds a page?
03:33 <@rizen> Well, that's up to you, because a user doesn't get a page unless you as an admin gives it to them
03:34 < wgGuest63> would I need to install this on a separate server and call it http://faculty.xxx.xxx.edu
03:34 <@rizen> You can do that a couple different ways
03:34 < wgGuest63> hmm
03:34 <@rizen> You can either do it manually
03:34 < wgGuest63> well, . . . whats the most common way you've seen it done
03:34 <@rizen> or automated
03:34 < wgGuest63> when a user registers for an account on www.domain.com
03:35 < wgGuest63> is the user's site www.domain.com/user, etc?
03:35 < wgGuest63> I'm trying to get a better sense of how this works
03:35 < wgGuest63> and as a matter of fact
03:35 <@rizen> Usually the admins I know do it manually because individual users don't get pages, it's departments that get pages, and then a department manager hands out pages to individuals if necessary
03:35 <@rizen> the url can be basically whatever you want, but generally speaking it would be something like
03:35 <@rizen> domain.com/faculty/username
03:36 <@rizen> or faculty.domain.com/username would work fine too
03:36 < wgGuest63> the only downside I see right now is that I need to put this on a separate server
03:36 <@rizen> some people set up a workflow that will automatically create a user's page and assign rights when the user is created
03:37 <@rizen> fyi, webgui has a built in workflow engine to automate such tasks
03:37 < wgGuest63> only because I'm thinking about using our main campus webserver with the Joomla CMS!
03:37 < wgGuest63> because we have scrict guidelines in terms of our corporate image
03:37 < wgGuest63> so I'm designing a template for it
03:37 < wgGuest63> but we do have faculty homepages that students visit for course syllabi and whatnot
03:37 <@rizen> why would you go joomla for the main site and webgui for these substes?
03:37 <@rizen> instead of webgui everywhere?
03:38 < wgGuest63> well, I could
03:38 < wgGuest63> but I would need to learn how to customize my current website to look exactly as is with webgui
03:38 < wgGuest63> do you want to see our current page?
03:38 <@rizen> sure
03:38 < wgGuest63> remember, this is a corporate theme, so I can't modify it that much
03:39 <@rizen> there's a book that can help you wiht that
03:39 < wgGuest63> I need to design it so it looks lamost identical
03:39 < wgGuest63> http://www.dpg.devry.edu
03:39 <@rizen> https://www.plainblack.com/store/services/books2/webgui-designers-guide
03:39 < wgGuest63> Joomla has some great template designs that would fit my needs
03:39 < wgGuest63> and then webgui would be great for faculty
03:40 <@rizen> webgui could do that design quite easily
03:40 <@rizen> for that matter, i've never seen a design that webgui can't do
03:40 < wgGuest63> the faculty webpage is a separate entity, and faculty would love the webgui interface and functionality
03:41 < wgGuest63> however, according to the webui FAQ, I can't coexist apache and mysql on the same server as webgui?
03:41 < wgGuest63> I didnt quite understand that
03:41 <@rizen> actually you can
03:41 <@rizen> could you point me to the faq that says that?
03:43 < wgGuest63> http://www.plainblack.com/community-wiki/wre-installation
03:43 < wgGuest63> Down the page it says make sure apache is not running at sstartup and make sure apache and mysql are not running during install
03:43 <@rizen> ic that's not an faq, but a wiki page
03:44 <@rizen> and the reason that it's saying that is that the WRE comes with it's own apache and MySQL built in
03:44 <@rizen> so you don't need your own mysql and apache
03:44 < wgGuest63> ahhh
03:44 < wgGuest63> thats what I thought
03:44 < wgGuest63> hmmm
03:45 < wgGuest63> I am going to install it on my play server
03:45 < wgGuest63> but webgui matches perfectly for our faculty
03:46 < wgGuest63> and the install seems straight forward
03:46 <@rizen> Incidentally you're not the only college down there running WebGUI
03:46 <@rizen> University of Illinois Chicago already runs WebGUI
03:46 <@rizen> at the Library, and a few other departments
03:47 <@rizen> And so does Wheaton College Library
03:47 < wgGuest63> nice
03:47 < wgGuest63> if I have any questions with the install
03:47 < wgGuest63> can I ask?
03:48 <@rizen> you can certainly ask, but i'm afraid we charge for support...others here though will probably help you for free
03:50 < wgGuest63> thats fine
03:50 < wgGuest63> the instructions seem straight forward
03:50 < wgGuest63> thanks again for your input
03:52 <@rizen> np
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04:34 < wgGuest63> where do you put the US/Central time zone setting in the rc.webgui file?
04:34 < wgGuest63> how would you handle this config settikng?
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05:11 <@preaction> wgGuest63, you need to alter the Visitor user's profile
05:11 <@preaction> nothing to do with rc.webgui
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06:33 < wgGuest63> anyone have problems with AWSTATS?
06:33 < wgGuest63> I have the system installed
06:33 < wgGuest63> but struggling to get the homepage loaded
06:34 < wgGuest63> it continues to complain about the awstats config file
06:34 < wgGuest63> unfortunately, I can't seem to figure this one out
06:40 <@rizen> mv all of the stats related files out of /data/wre/etc until you have your first working site
06:40 <@rizen> screw around with stats later
06:50 < wgGuest63> argh!
06:50 < wgGuest63> I know I'm close here
06:51 < wgGuest63> but I moved all the files out of the /data/wre/etc directory to a backup dir and still no go
06:51 < wgGuest63> it still complains about the awstats config
06:51 < wgGuest63> should I re-install again without the awstats option?
06:52 < wgGuest63> I don't get why its not workingyet
06:54 < wgGuest63> I've installed this almost 10 times
06:54 < wgGuest63> and everything seems to install flawlessl
06:59 < wgGuest63> will try again
06:59 <@rizen> don't know what to tell you...don't have any quick and dirty help
07:00 <@rizen> if you follow the instructions to the letter
07:00 <@rizen> it should "just work"
07:00 < wgGuest63> I probably missed something
07:00 < wgGuest63> I'm going to try it again
07:00 <@rizen> if you want you could try the new technology preview WRE 0.8
07:01 < wgGuest63> very true
07:01 <@rizen> http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds/wre/
07:01 < wgGuest63> thanks
07:01 < wgGuest63> I'll try the stable first
07:01 <@rizen> comment out line 41 of wreconsole.pl
07:01 < wgGuest63> when I run the addsite command on the last step, . .. is that the admin site?
07:01 <@rizen> there is no admin site
07:02 <@rizen> each site is a fully functioning version of webgui
07:02 < wgGuest63> hmm
07:02 <@rizen> and completely separate from each other site
07:02 <@rizen> WRE 0.8 has the WRE Console, which is a web based admin panel
07:02 <@rizen> so maybe you read something about that
07:02 <@rizen> and it's confusing you
07:02 < wgGuest63> right. . I might have read it
07:03 < wgGuest63> but with the stable version
07:03 < wgGuest63> if I create one site
07:03 <@rizen> the stable version has no wreconsole.p
07:03 <@rizen> if you add one site
07:03 <@rizen> then that's a working webgui
07:03 < wgGuest63> how would I go about creating multipe sites for faculty, per say?
07:03 <@rizen> that you can publish data to
07:03 <@rizen> you want each faculty member to have a full webgui site?
07:04 <@rizen> or just a section within a big site?
07:04 < wgGuest63> well
07:04 < wgGuest63> I suppose one section each per the one webgui
07:04 <@rizen> then you'd need to log in as admin
07:04 <@rizen> create the user
07:04 <@rizen> create the page
07:04 <@rizen> and assign rights to the page to the user
07:04 <@rizen> or set up a workflow to do that for you
07:05 < wgGuest63> but each of them will want freedom to create their own page layout, color, theme, etc.
07:05 < wgGuest63> is this possible the way you described?
07:05 <@rizen> yes
07:05 <@rizen> every page in the site can have a unique style if that's what you want
07:05 < wgGuest63> once I create lets say user1 and user2
07:06 < wgGuest63> and a page for each
07:06 < wgGuest63> user 1 will be able to modify his page
07:06 < wgGuest63> I'll have to play around with it myself
07:06 < wgGuest63> but faculty usually have more than one page
07:06 <@rizen> rather than going through the hassle of installing it, why not play with this out on demo.webgui.org
07:07 <@rizen> yeah, once they have one page
07:07 <@rizen> they can add additional pages
07:07 <@rizen> under that main page
07:07 < wgGuest63> right
07:07 < wgGuest63> and then I can create a link on my campus website to link to each faculty page
07:07 < wgGuest63> lemme try thisinstall one more time
07:08 <@rizen> if you set it up right, you can actually have webgui keep your faculty page up to date automatically
07:08 <@rizen> so that when you add a new faculty member
07:08 <@rizen> or delete one
07:08 <@rizen> the main page is automatically updated
07:08 < wgGuest63> cool, hold on
07:09 < wgGuest63> (installing . . . )
07:11 < wgGuest63> unpacking webgui
07:11 < wgGuest63> almost done!
07:11 < wgGuest63> =)
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07:24 < wgGuest27> I'm back
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18:06 < ckotil> hrm htmp::template::expr isnt handing my conditionals as I intend it to.
18:07 < ckotil> ?? pastebin
18:08 < ckotil> http://www.pastebin.ca/692077
18:08 < ckotil> nothing too fancey..
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18:19 < ckotil> so i simplified the conditionals. and it works.
18:19 < ckotil> perhaps thats a bug?
18:20 < ckotil> http://pastebin.ca/692095 simplified.
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19:58 < elnino> hi. I have some pages that need to be approved by one manager, and other pages be approved by another. Is there a way to do this? or is this an RFE?
20:02 <@preaction> how are they split? by sections of the site? currently there's no automatic way to do it, but you can choose which workflow your version tag runs under
20:03 <@preaction> so you can make two workflows: Commit With Approval from Manager One, and CWA from Manager Two, and assign different groups to the "Request Approval" workflow activity
20:07 < elnino> so, when a user in a particular group "creates a version tag" is there a way to default which workflow they get? (based on the group they are in?)
20:07 <@preaction> no
20:07 < elnino> oh. so I have to teach them  how to responsibly select the correct approval work flow? =)
20:08 <@preaction> you might want to take a look inside the RequestApproval something something workflow activity
20:08 <@preaction> it's really quite simple, you might be able to hack it yourself
20:09 < elnino> work flow activies scare me.  and make no sense to me. I'm just glad the default ones work.  =)
20:09 <@preaction> i actually wrote one that does what you require, using the RequestApproval as a base, for a client. problem is that it's completely custom for their site (there's no way to alter it to fit anyone's needs, it's a monster)
20:10 <@preaction> might want to post an RFE for a "Request Approval workflow activity with Multiple Approval Groups". it seems I get asked about it a bit
20:11 <@preaction> not sure if it'll pass muster with JT, but it'd be the simplest solution to the problem
20:11 <@preaction> make sure to mention that we shouldn't stop with just one extra User Group to Approval Group relationship, that multiples should be available
20:11 <@preaction> (it'd be a power admin's toy, but it would be very powerful)
20:13 < elnino> thanks! you are very helpful. It looks liek workflows are little more intuitive from the old version I had. I'll see if I can dig around.
20:14 <@preaction> i might just add it to my list, even if JT doesn't approve it, usually he'll take patches if he's coerced about the usefulness of it
20:15 <@preaction> i mean, still make the RFE, but if it's not approved don't give up hope
20:16 <@preaction> i think two new approval activities: one by group as you described, and one by asset lineage (so you can demarcate a section of your site to be under the control of certain users) will work out splendidly
20:20 < elnino> ok. I'll create an rfe. Thanks!  ANother question. I have 7.3.22 and we're planning on going live this friday. Would it be advisable to upgrade to the latest stable?  I'm hoping there aren't any nasty surprises....
20:20 <@preaction> 7.3.22 is the latest stable
20:20 <@preaction> 7.4 is still in beta, afaik on-track to release stable this week or next
20:27 < elnino> So, I have another question. I'm the "admin" user of webgui, and all the pages on the site are owned by me.  is this the typical setup? or should the pages be owned by the group that can modify it?
20:28 < elnino> what would the pros and cons be?
20:30 < elnino> rfe made.
20:30 <@preaction> assets are owned by a single user, that user is allowed (usually) to edit that asset (i believe, even if they aren't in the group that allows editing)
20:30 <@preaction> i'm not really too sure about owner, since it usually  never comes up 
20:30 <@preaction> i'd imagine though, it's mostly used for things like Posts to collab systems
20:30 <@preaction> or Events
20:30 <@preaction> user-posted content
20:44 < elnino> yep, the owner has full editing rights regardless of edit group. Just wondierng if my setup is typical? or if people take the time to give the ownership of pages to other groups other than admin. no biggy, just curious.
20:48 <@preaction> it's typical except for the user-posted content like Events and Posts/Threads
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20:52 < elnino> ok. glad I'm typical. =)
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22:51 < dionak> quick, easy question...i have a list of userIds in a template. How do I get the username for each userId? The userName macro just gets the logged in user according to the wiki...
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22:51 < dionak> sounds easy anyways..
22:52 < rizenisaway> you would need to write a macro that looks up the username based upon user id
22:52 < dionak> ok..cool. thanks
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10:35 < wgGuest98> \nick todor_k
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16:57 < ckotil> <3 webgui
16:57 < knowmad> awwww :)
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17:03 <@rizen> sweet...did it do something particularly kick ass for you?
17:07 <@rizen> how's bithznethz knowmad?
17:07 < ckotil> yeah, the templating system
17:08 < ckotil> html::template::expr in particular
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17:09 <@rizen> ah yes...our design staff is particularly fond of that
17:10 <@rizen> i just like that the templating system can scale with your needs/skill level
17:10 <@rizen> noob = H:T
17:10 <@rizen> some xp = H:T:E
17:10 <@rizen> power user = TT
17:11 < ckotil> tho i wasnt able to combine conditionals with || &&.
17:11 <@rizen> you can do that with TT
17:11 < ckotil> oh, i see
17:11 <@rizen> TT is pretty much a full on programming language
17:11 <@rizen> you can inline perl code right into it
17:11 < ckotil> awsome.
17:12 <@rizen> but it's too challenging for most users, that's why we start everybody with H:T
17:12 < ckotil> I can see that being very useful
17:15 <@rizen> it's not too shabby
17:16 <@rizen> ckotil, were you planning on coming to the WUC?
17:17 <@rizen> the reason i bring it up is that our director of operations told me yesterday that there's only a few seats left. for the first time in history we're probably going to sell all our available seats
17:17 <@rizen> so if you want one, you should sign up soon
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17:43 < ckotil> No, thanks though.
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18:03 < xootom> hi, very much looking forward to 7.4.6 and 7.5, can anyone hint at when they might be available?
18:03 <@rizen> 7.4.6 will come out today
18:03 <@rizen> 7.5 will come out when it does
18:03 < xootom> ah lovely, thanks
18:04 < xootom> np :)
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19:13 < knowmad> hey rizen, bithznethz is good. we're working on redoing our website packages to all incorporate WebGUI (except an ecommerce offering that uses another product)
19:14 < knowmad> how about you guys
19:32 <@rizen> quite good actually
19:32 <@rizen> we're busy working out the details for some new products and services that we'll be offering starting at the wuc
19:33 <@rizen> and we also have some pretty high profile organizations that we're working out contracts for
19:34 <@rizen> is the other system "OS Commerce"?
19:34 < knowmad> no. we're using CS-Cart
19:34 < knowmad> glad to hear you're keeping busy. i assumed as much seeing the job postings going up
19:34 < knowmad> i look forward to hearing about the new stuff at the WUC
19:35 <@rizen> hmmm...haven't heard of cs cart
19:35 <@rizen> hopefully the new features i'm working on, which i'll show a small demo of at the wuc will be enough to eliminate the need for cs cart
19:36 < knowmad> I'd be so happy if you can pull that off
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19:37 < knowmad> It's just hard for a universal CMS to be as competent as a package which is devoted to that one concept (e.g., shopping cart, blogging)
19:37 <@rizen> it won't be until early next year before you'll be able to use the new commerce features
19:37 <@rizen> oh yeah, i know that
19:37 < knowmad> i'm just glad to hear they are coming!
19:38 <@rizen> i hope to suprize everyone a bit when we come out with the new commerce stuff
19:38 < knowmad> on the other hand, folks probably use 25-50% of the features of these devoted pkgs
19:38 <@rizen> actually...it's funny you say that
19:38 < knowmad> so if WebGUI can do the main features, we can customize the special stuff
19:38 < knowmad> I like surprises :)
19:38 < knowmad> well, good ones anyhow
19:38 <@rizen> one of our internal development goals is for webgui to have the most used 50% of features in any given category that it competes in
19:39 <@rizen> we figure that the last 50% are so specialized, that they likely aren't worth the bang/buck
19:39 < knowmad> Nice! That's a lofty goal.
19:39 < knowmad> have you identified the apps you are competing with in each of the Assets?
19:39 < knowmad> is that open to discussion?
19:39 <@rizen> because, as you state, it's nearly impossible for a general purpose tool to compete with a specialized one
19:40 <@rizen> we have for some of them
19:40 <@rizen> CS = phpBB
19:40 <@rizen> and i think we have the 50% covered there
19:40 <@rizen> and then some
19:40 <@rizen> wiki = mediawiki
19:40 <@rizen> we have a ways to go
19:41 < knowmad> unfortunately, i have to agree with that
19:41 <@rizen> but we only just introduced our wiki
19:41 <@rizen> they've been around for ever
19:41 < knowmad> i'd love to start using the wiki for our internal docs but need some features like more refined permissions control per entry
19:41 < knowmad> yeah, and it's getting better
19:41 <@rizen> yeah, the 7.4 wiki is a very usable wiki, though not feature rich
19:42 <@rizen> for commerce our 50% goal is measured against OS Commerce
19:42 <@rizen> arguably the leader in the shopping cart arena
19:42 < knowmad> i've not used OS Commerce. it's prob similar to CS-cart and X-Cart
19:44 <@rizen> my goal is to reach our 50% commerce goal by the end of 2008
19:45 <@rizen> the calendar is really starting to get close too
19:45 <@rizen> it only needs the list view, and subscriptions and we're there
19:45 <@rizen> of course "there" is a dynamic thing
19:46 <@rizen> people are always adding new features
19:50 < knowmad> great. what are you comparing calendar to?
19:53 <@rizen> calcium
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19:54 <@rizen> at some point we may need to update our views and compare it to something like google calendars, or phpGroupware, or evite....something that has resource scheduling and event planning capabilities
19:55 <@rizen> but for now, we're just trying to make the best event calendar we can make
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21:32 < knowmad> hey, rizen. sorry to fall off. had a client call.
21:32 < knowmad> then lunch was calling
21:33 < knowmad> I like your ideas of making the calendar work for resource scheduling and event planning.
22:14 < xootom> is it possible to change the url the user is sent to after they have confirmed their account via email? by default the url contains the place they started registering from, so short of making the site's registration link point to a page preceeding the actual registration, then having different assets for 'registered users' on this page. can I override the url in the confirm email?
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23:25 <+MrHairgrease> weirdness
23:25 <+MrHairgrease> if you paste this code into the description of a page
23:26 <+MrHairgrease> apche will jump to 100% processor and eat up your machine
23:26 <+MrHairgrease> http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-perl-737.html
23:26 <+MrHairgrease> my guess is it's doin something with macro's
23:28 <@preaction> that's crazy talk there
23:28 <+MrHairgrease> but it does run
23:29 <+MrHairgrease> it's an amazing piece of code
23:31 <@preaction> indeed
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00:36 <@preaction> i haven't seen colin around in a while
00:37 <+MrHairgrease> i was thinking the same when I just joined the channel today
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00:37 <@preaction> i'm writing some tests for that code you pasted to try to debug why and ensure it doesn't ever become a problem again, and i was thinking about some changes to the structure of our tests
00:38 <@preaction> wanted to run it by him... hum...
00:38 <@rizen> colin hasn't been around for a while because he injured himself
00:38 <@rizen> so instead of coding time
00:39 <@rizen> he has therapy time
00:39 <+MrHairgrease> injured?
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00:39 <+MrHairgrease> will he be at the wuc?
00:40 <@rizen> yes he'll be there
00:40 <+MrHairgrease> ok
00:40 <+MrHairgrease> that's good
00:41 <@preaction> my test succeeds, but it takes a few seconds in the test environment.
00:41 <@rizen> yo mamma
00:42 <@preaction> during which, i imagine, the process is 100% cpu
00:42 <@preaction> or not... weird
00:43 <@preaction> maybe it's because there's only the weird text itself, and not a page style around it
00:46 <@preaction> there are five macros that get opened in that string, and only one of them gets closed, so the processor i assume keeps going until it reaches the end of the text. the problem is the regex recursion, since it's one regex, it's causing that intensive loop
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02:11 < xootom> is password recovery with email address working for other people?
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02:14 < cap10morgan> Am I correct in assuming that the HTTP proxy wobject can't handle redirects from the thing it's proxying?
02:30 < cap10morgan> oh, no, it seems i am not. the code is there, but something's not working, hmm...
02:31 <@rizen> do you have follow redirects turned on
02:31 <@rizen> in the http proxy
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02:47 < xootom> if I set allow password recovery to email address, there is no password recovery form on my site, what could be breaking it?
02:48 < xootom> with user profile fields is ok though
02:50 <@preaction> xootom, what version? there were some necessary fixes to the system, and a complete overhaul in 7.4
02:52 < xootom> 7.4.5, i've just tried with another site on the same wre/webgui though which is ok
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03:05 < xootom> doesnt seem to be a template problem
03:09 <@rizen> i doubt it's a bug since it works on plainblack.com
03:12 < xootom> yeah it works on my server on other instances of the site too
03:12 < xootom> the form is just missing though on my main site
03:16 <@preaction> there were changes to the form, are you using the default template?
03:17 < xootom> yeah and compared it with a working site, its the same
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03:44 < xootom> strange, I think I'll have to abandon it for today, in the WebGUI auth in sub emailRecoverPassword it's rendering hidden fields and the form, but the text, email and submit elements aren't coming through
03:46 < xootom> could it be conflicting with my utility interface template's login form i wonder
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06:00 < cap10morgan> rizen: yeah, i have follow redirects on (sorry, just saw your response)
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15:34 < knowmad> can anyone enlighten me about using session scratch to store stuff?
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16:41 <@rizen> $session->scratch->set("x", "here's my data");
16:42 <@rizen> scratch variables persist for the duration of the session
16:42 <@rizen> so until the user logs out, or is logged out by session time out
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17:45 < ckotil> then is it <tmpl_var x> to call on it?
17:48 <@rizen> to call on what?
17:48 <@rizen> scratch variables?
17:56 < knowmad> ok, thanks rizen. i'm actually on a different course b/c like ckotil points out, i'm not sure how to grab it back out. 
17:57 < knowmad> plus i need to grab it back on a per-user basis while iterating over a loop in the InOutBoard wobject. it makes more sense to set the profile field during login.
17:58 < knowmad> are you guys using the runOnLogin config option? I've got a post to the support forum about it. I don't see how it works because it looks like it's using the macro module to process the command.
17:58 <@rizen> runOnLogin is being used by one of our clients
17:58 <@rizen> $session->scratch->get("x) is how you get it back out
17:58 < knowmad> good. so it does work.
17:59 <@rizen> $session->scratch->get("x")
17:59 < knowmad> but how would that work inside the loop in InOutBoard where i'm iterating over many users. i'd have to instantiate new sessions for each user to get their scratch setting wouldn't I?
18:00 <@rizen> yes
18:00 <@rizen> if you were trying to set it on each user's session
18:00 < knowmad> with >50 users, that sounds slow
18:00 <@rizen> assuming they even have sessions
18:00 < knowmad> that's a good point as well
18:00 < knowmad> that's why i'm thinking using the runOnLogin script to set a profile value
18:01 <@rizen> perhaps you should just tell me what you're trying to do
18:01 < knowmad> i just don't know what's coming into that script when it is called.
18:01 <@rizen> the end result
18:01 < knowmad> end result is to set a phone ext for each user as they login
18:01 < knowmad> each day the user may be at a different extension and we need to show that info in the inout board
18:02 <@rizen> so how could you use runOnLogin to do that?
18:02 < knowmad> it's working with a profile field but changing it is a pain, esp since they do not allow users to alter their profiles which means an admin would have to do it
18:02 < knowmad> i could use a script to take an extra form param from the login form and set the profile field
18:02 <@rizen> nope
18:03 <@rizen> the form data isn't being sent to the runOnLogin command
18:03 < knowmad> if session obj is passed to script, i could use session->form->param(). or maybe not....
18:03 <@rizen> you can't pass an object to a script
18:03 < knowmad> then i could pass it in on a command line via FormParam macro?
18:03 <@rizen> think about it
18:03 < knowmad> yeah, i see...
18:03 < knowmad> about passing an object
18:04 < knowmad> to be honest, i don't see how that script is getting called
18:04 <@rizen> the script gets called like this:
18:04 < knowmad> it looks like it's using the macro utility to do it and the macros do receive objects
18:04 <@rizen> here: /path/to/script ^@; ^whatever; ^somemacro;
18:05 <@rizen> it is'nt sending objects
18:05 <@rizen> it's sending strings
18:05 <@rizen> so your script needs to read those from ARGV
18:05 <@rizen> and the command string
18:05 <@rizen> is what you put in the config file
18:06 <@rizen> macros and all
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18:06 < knowmad> so i should use the _utility.skeleton to base my script on
18:06 <@rizen> yup
18:07 < knowmad> do you think using the FormParam macro will work?
18:07 <@rizen> provided that you customize your login form to add the extra value
18:07 <@rizen> then yyes
18:07 < knowmad> great. i'll let you know how it goes
18:08 < knowmad> so can you tell me why the WebGUI::Macro::process method is used to call the command? i'd think that it would process a Macro instead of execute a command.
18:09 < knowmad> see WebGUI::Auth.pm line 678
18:10 < knowmad> the comment in WebGUI::Macro.pm says: "Runs all the WebGUI macros to and replaces them in the HTML with their output."
18:10 < knowmad> what does that mean?
18:11 < knowmad> ohh, i see, it's how you replace the macro with the output in the command string
18:11 < knowmad> still, it looks like there's a typo in the comment
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19:03 < dionak> does anyone know of any plans to work on the inbox? I'm looking into this feature and am curious if work is already going on in this area...
19:03 <@rizen> 7.4 and 7.5 both have improvements to the inbox
19:04 <@rizen> 7.4 has a whole new interface as well as private messaging
19:04 <@rizen> 7.5 adds a friends system, so you can easily send messages back and forth between friends
19:05 < dionak> i've noticed...the private messaging but i didn't see the messages between friends. i'm looking at the source in svn...
19:05 < dionak> i need to be able to delete messages and i created a test for WebGUI::Inbox. 
19:06 < dionak> i have delete working btw. 
19:06 < dionak> where do i find the messages between friends?
19:07 <@rizen> it's not in svn yet cuz we haven't branched for 7.5 yet
19:07 < dionak> oh, ok. is there a timeline in place? 
19:07 <@rizen> incidentally, i won't accept the delete code unless it simply marks the message deleted, and doesn't display it
19:07 <@rizen> it can't actually delete the message
19:08 < dionak> that would be my preference but i'm currently using the delete method that existed. are you planning to make an inbox look like any existing mail application? 
19:08 < dionak> i could change the code to set status = 'deleted' if that's acceptable
19:08 <@rizen> yup, that's fine
19:08 < dionak> cool
19:09 <@rizen> the look and feel of the inbox as it is in 7.4 is the only change we have planned for the short term
19:09 <@rizen> longer term we plan on building a whole new account management screen set
19:09 <@rizen> including the inbox
19:10 <@rizen> but i don't know what version that would be
19:10 < dionak> i'd be happy to contribute to the inbox if that's useful. 
19:10 <@rizen> we're always up for contributions. simply document what you want to change, and email it to me.
19:11 < dionak> ok, will do. thanks
19:11 <@rizen> then once we're branched for 7.5 you can start checking in your changes
19:11 < dionak> gotcha
19:11 <@rizen> does anyone here know how to use Parse::RecDescent
19:12 <@rizen> i'm having a hard time with it
19:12 < dionak> knowmad is pretty familiar with that...
19:12 <@rizen> knowmad, r u around?
19:13 < knowmad> hey rizen, what's up?
19:13 < knowmad> ahh, recdescent. that's a fun module!
19:13 <@rizen> i'm trying to learn it
19:14 <@rizen> so i've created a custom config file format for screwing around with
19:14 < knowmad> yeah, it's a mind bender
19:14 <@rizen> and i've started writing my grammar
19:14 <@rizen> but it doesn't work
19:14 < knowmad> but it's awesome when you get it working
19:14 <@rizen> here's the perl
19:14 <@rizen> http://rafb.net/p/LZjqLB48.html
19:14 < knowmad> you read my mind :)
19:14 < knowmad> what about the config file?
19:14 <@rizen> here's the config
19:14 <@rizen> http://rafb.net/p/BB3sAo80.html
19:15 <@rizen> i just recently made a change that makes it so it won't even run
19:15 <@rizen> let me remove that and paste again
19:16 <@rizen> ok, new code: http://rafb.net/p/RBuIbh56.html
19:16 <@rizen> and here's the output i'm getting: http://rafb.net/p/2cNy2d22.html
19:17 <@rizen> i'm getting the data just fine
19:17 <@rizen> but i want the structure to include the directives too...like a hash reference, so i know what the data represents
19:17 < knowmad> i'm running it local
19:20 < knowmad> there are callbacks you can run when matching to grab that info
19:20 < knowmad> i've got a lunch mtg to get to but can find an example for you when i get back in around 3ish
19:20 <@rizen> thanks
19:20 < knowmad> i'll im when i get back to see where you get
19:20 < knowmad> you'll prob. figure it out while i'm out ;)
19:20 <@rizen> i'm probably going to have to give up
19:21 <@rizen> i don't really have enough time to do this right now
19:21 < knowmad> leave it and i'll get back to you this afternoon
19:43 < dionak> jt, do you have a guesstimate on the branch for 7.5? 
19:44 <@rizen> when all the bugs on the bug list for 7.4 are gone
19:44 <@rizen> hopefully next week
19:45 <@rizen> but that's really up to Haarg and the rest of the community
19:45 < dionak> ok, thanks. 
19:45 < dionak> where is the bug list?
19:45 <@rizen> webgui.org/bugs
19:45 <@rizen> exclude any plainblack.com, and wre bugs
19:45 <@rizen> the only ones that matter for stable are WebGUI bugs
19:46 < dionak> ok. how do you make sure people aren't working on the same thing?
19:46 < dionak> or do you?
19:48 <@rizen> the tradition is that while you're working on a bug you reply to it and say you're working on it
19:48 <@rizen> and then you reply again when you're no longer working
19:48 < dionak> cool. thanks. 
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22:38 < knowmad> rizen, yt?
22:39 < knowmad> i've got something for you to play with.
22:40 < knowmad> http://rafb.net/p/cpSFb868.html
22:40 < cap10morgan> anyone know of someone working on adding OpenID authentication to WebGUI?
22:41 < knowmad> yeah, there's a post in add ons for it
22:41 < cap10morgan> oh yeah?
22:41 < cap10morgan> groovy
22:41 < knowmad> and it sounds pretty complete. i'm hoping for a project to be able to try it myself.
22:42 < cap10morgan> yeah, i've got one now, so this is good news. :) thanks knowmad
22:42 < knowmad> but none so far. please post a reply to the guy if you try it.
22:42 < cap10morgan> for sure
22:42 < knowmad> yes, it's always a joy to find out that someone else has done the dirty work for you :)
22:42 < cap10morgan> no doubt
22:42 < knowmad> maybe you can help me
22:43 < knowmad> i need to update a user profile field from an external script
22:43 < knowmad> assuming i have a user object, any suggestions for what to use to do this?
22:44 <@rizen> if you have a user object then you just call the profileField method
22:44 <@rizen> $user->profileField("email", 'me@you.com');
22:45 <@rizen> thanks for the code
22:45 <@rizen> i'll take a look
22:45 < knowmad> yeah, hope it works out. i'm sure you'll figure out how to get the output you need
22:46 <@rizen> ohly crap
22:46 <@rizen> it just works
22:47 < knowmad> :)
22:47 <@rizen> i've been playing with the return strings now for quite a while
22:47 < knowmad> RD is like that! Hats off to Damian.
22:47 <@rizen> and got close, but still not right
22:47 <@rizen> i don't understand why yours works though
22:47 <@rizen> you're creating strings
22:48 <@rizen> is the return value supposed to be a string?
22:48 <@rizen> oh wait
22:48 < knowmad> that's my understanding but to be honest i grabbed that code from an old script I wrote and plugged it in. let me send you a bunch of url's i used while developing it
22:48 <@rizen> nevermind, yours isn't working
22:48 <@rizen> yours is just returning strings
22:48 < knowmad> i thought that was strange that you'd want it in that format
22:49 <@rizen> not an actual hash
22:49 <@rizen> no, what i want is for it to create a hash
22:49 < knowmad> i suspect you can change that behavior
22:49 <@rizen> i'm sure i can, but it's going to take a lot more dinking around
22:49 < knowmad> lemme pull the POD
22:50 <@rizen> i can get it to the point where it gives me an array of hash references
22:50 <@rizen> which i suppose i can then just merge into a giant hash
22:51 < knowmad> but that'd take addt'l work outside of the parser 
22:52 < knowmad> there's a way to populate a hash as you parse. hold on a sec...
22:53 <@rizen> i've got it working, now, but through a total jury rig
22:53 <@rizen> i'm sure there is a better way to do it
22:55 <@rizen> here's my code that works
22:55 <@rizen> http://rafb.net/p/PG2fo869.html
22:55 <@rizen> and the output: http://rafb.net/p/Vd52EQ26.html
22:55 <@rizen> but i'm cheating cuz i'm using an external hash
22:56 <@rizen> rather than the data structure created by Parse::RecDescent
22:57 < knowmad> ok, got somethin
22:57 < knowmad> but you beat me to the punch
22:58 <@rizen> so you're using an external hash too?
22:58 < knowmad> and i see that you break out value and units in yours
22:58 < knowmad> yes, an external hash that gets populated via the parser
22:58 < knowmad> wanna see the code?
22:58 <@rizen> sure
22:58 <@rizen> isn't that cheating though?
22:58 <@rizen> or is that the way you're supposed to do it?
22:59 < knowmad> http://rafb.net/p/fmb1Dt34.html
22:59 < knowmad> using an external hash?
22:59 <@rizen> yeah?
22:59 <@rizen> shouldn't we be using the data structure that the parser creates?
22:59 < knowmad> i don't see why it's cheating but I'm no PRD expert
23:00 <@preaction> parser doesn't really create a structure. it can modify text in-place if you give it a scalar-ref instead of a scalar
23:00 < knowmad> check out this - http://search.cpan.org/~dconway/Parse-RecDescent-1.94/lib/Parse/RecDescent.pod#Autoactions
23:00 <@preaction> it's weird, i just got into it yesterday
23:01 <@preaction> had to use local for the first time ever (at least, proper use of local)
23:01 <@rizen> it does create a structure preaction
23:01 <@preaction> oh, hmm
23:01 < knowmad> his example shows using the code blocks (though not an external data structure)
23:01 <@rizen> if you do Dumper($parser->parse) it outputs an array ref
23:01 <@preaction> ohhh that's what $return is
23:01 <@rizen> right
23:01 <@preaction> dur, that would work far better than what i was doing for the macros
23:02 < knowmad> are there methods that can be called on the object?
23:02 < knowmad> but return is just a string
23:02 < knowmad> actually i take that back
23:02 < knowmad> looking at the POD he shows examples of return returnings an array. so i guess it could also return a hashref which is essentially what i did in my latest code example.
23:03 <@preaction> rizen, fyi: the few benchmarks i've been able to complete (hard to do due to Out Of Memory errors) say that with just one macro containing one nested macro, PRD is 25% faster
23:03 <@preaction> with 7 of those macros in the same text, it's almost 1000% faster
23:03 <@rizen> yeah, but i want to see it inside of a bunch of HTML
23:03 <@rizen> that's the true benchmark
23:04 <@rizen> if you just take the output of a default site
23:04 <@rizen> and run it on that
23:04 <@preaction> i can only do a few hundred iterations, but i'll assemble a style from a demo
23:05 <@rizen> incidentally Haarg wrote one using a different kind of regex that was also 1000% faster
23:05 <@preaction> nice
23:05 <@rizen> however, his didnt' take into account macros that output macro code
23:05 <@rizen> like when you call ^AssetProxy();
23:05 <@rizen> that might output macros
23:05 <@rizen> does yours take care of that?
23:06 <@Haarg> mine could do that, i just haven't written it to do so yet
23:06 <@preaction> i'm not sure, i just call the parser to parse nested macros
23:06 <@preaction> i don't think it does for a couple cases yet
23:06 <@rizen> I know Haarg, but your benchmarks don't include that
23:07 <@rizen> it's all well and good to say that A outperforms B by 1000%. But if A and B aren't doing the same thing then it's not a very good test
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23:07 <@Haarg> yeah
23:07 <+MrHairgrease> rizen
23:07 <@rizen> mhg
23:08 <@Haarg> i'm pretty sure it would still be significantly faster
23:08 <+MrHairgrease> it is true that importAssetData is not being called if you extend it in a wobject?
23:08 <@rizen> i'm not saying it wouldn't
23:08 <@rizen> and i hope it is
23:08 <@rizen> just like i hope preaction's is
23:08 <@preaction> i've got a benchmark script, but it seems to destroy sites
23:08 <+MrHairgrease> maybe i'm just fucking up
23:09 <@preaction> (probably because of the OOM errors and not being able to properly rollback)
23:09 <@rizen> well you have to do $self->SUPER::importAssetData(@_);
23:09 <+MrHairgrease> but i'm trying to fix roys memory wobject so that it also exports some collateral data
23:09 <@rizen> are you doing that?
23:09 <+MrHairgrease> i did that
23:09 <@rizen> well then it should be
23:10 <+MrHairgrease> the thing is that I put a whole bunch of warns in there to monitor what it's doing
23:10 <+MrHairgrease> and they're not showing up in the logs
23:10 <@rizen> did you restart apache afterward?
23:10 <+MrHairgrease> nor does some table get updated
23:10 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
23:10 <+MrHairgrease> but
23:10 <+MrHairgrease> let me try again
23:12 <+MrHairgrease> hmm
23:12 <+MrHairgrease> still doesn't work
23:13 <+MrHairgrease> I get some weird errors though
23:13 < cap10morgan> is there a way to manually reset a webgui user's password in the db? i've tried setting it to the output of md5(password), old_password(password), and password(password), but no luck
23:13 < cap10morgan> (the identifier field in the authentication table)
23:13 <+MrHairgrease> 2007/09/13 22:11:25 - ERROR - dev2.conf - Log::Log4perl::Layout::PatternLayout::render[[undef]] - Could not set uid/gid on '/data/domains/dev2/public/uploads/4-/lH/4-lHDT_qzyaWK3X
23:13 <+MrHairgrease> vdlH-tQ/thumb-roy.png
23:13 <+MrHairgrease> but that file is there _with_ the right privs
23:14 <+MrHairgrease> somehow WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Memory->importAssetData is not called
23:14 <+MrHairgrease> or so it seems
23:14 <+MrHairgrease> oh crap
23:15 <+MrHairgrease> I think i found it
23:15 <+MrHairgrease> 197         my $asset = $assets{$data->{properties}{parentId}} || $self;
23:15 <+MrHairgrease> 198         my $newAsset = $asset->importAssetData($data);
23:15 <+MrHairgrease> so importAssetData is called on another asset than the one that is being imported
23:15 <+MrHairgrease> right?
23:16 <+MrHairgrease> it is
23:16 <+MrHairgrease> the parent asset to be precise
23:17 <+MrHairgrease> so the importAssetData method is called on the wrong asset
23:17 <+MrHairgrease> or maybe not the wrong
23:17 <+MrHairgrease> but in a way that I cannot extend it
23:17 <@rizen> you can extend it
23:17 <@rizen> if you couldn't then you wouldn't be able to import images
23:18 <@rizen> which are an extension of a file
23:18 <@rizen> oh, but nevermind
23:18 <+MrHairgrease> hmm
23:18 <@rizen> that doesn't override anything
23:18 <@rizen> it just inherits
23:18 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
23:18 <+MrHairgrease> that's what i mean
23:18 <+MrHairgrease> but let me check it out to be sure
23:19 <+MrHairgrease> Image assets don't have the method
23:19 <+MrHairgrease> oh
23:19 <+MrHairgrease> thta was what you were saying
23:20 <+MrHairgrease> actually
23:20 <+MrHairgrease> ont AssetPackage.pm has it
23:21 <+MrHairgrease> exporting collateral data works great by the
23:21 <+MrHairgrease> exportAssetData is extendible
23:22 <@rizen> i don't understand why is import not extendible?
23:23 <@rizen> oh
23:23 <@rizen> nevermind
23:23 <@rizen> it's the same reason that when you call www_add
23:23 <@rizen> you're calling it on the parent
23:23 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
23:23 <@rizen> the asset doesn't exist yet
23:23 <@rizen> so why do you need to extend it?
23:23 <+MrHairgrease> b/c
23:23 <@rizen> if www_add works, then so should import
23:24 <+MrHairgrease> the memory asset has images for the memory cards
23:24 <+MrHairgrease> and stores them in a table called MemoryImage
23:24 <+MrHairgrease> teh images are in storage locations
23:24 <+MrHairgrease> exporting and importing the images themselves work fine
23:25 <+MrHairgrease> but inserting the correct rows in that table must be done from importassetdata
23:25 <+MrHairgrease> and no
23:25 <+MrHairgrease> www_add is called on the parent
23:25 <@rizen> that's what i said
23:25 <+MrHairgrease> which call geteditform on the to be created asset
23:25 <+MrHairgrease> so ther you can do your magick
23:25 <+MrHairgrease> not in add
23:26 <@rizen> ok, so the problem here is that you have collateral data
23:26 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
23:26 <@rizen> and the import system doesn't account for that
23:26 <+MrHairgrease> apparently
23:26 <+MrHairgrease> however
23:27 <+MrHairgrease> it's perfectly possible to export collateral data into apckage
23:27 <+MrHairgrease> a package*
23:27 <+MrHairgrease> you just cannot import it again
23:27 <+MrHairgrease> which kind of defies the purpous of being able to export it =)
23:27 <@rizen> right
23:28 <@rizen> so add a method to WebGUI::AssetPackage called importAssetCollateralData
23:28 <@rizen> make it empty by default
23:28 <+MrHairgrease> that would work
23:28 <@rizen> and have it called on the newly imported asset
23:28 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
23:28 <@rizen> you have my blessing to do so and add it to svn
23:28 <+MrHairgrease> ok
23:28 <+MrHairgrease> will do
23:29 <+MrHairgrease> there's also another bug i found
23:29 <+MrHairgrease> by default JSON will return objects called JSON::NotString (ort something like that) in the datastructures returned by JSON::jsonToObj
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23:30 <+MrHairgrease> which will cause the import to die
23:30 <+MrHairgrease> the fix is setting this before you convert the datasturcture
23:30 < knowmad> rizen, here's my refactored version of a RD parser using the built-in $return object --> http://rafb.net/p/scUEbb94.html
23:30 <+MrHairgrease> $JSON::UnMapping = 1;
23:31 <@rizen> mhg: that fix won't cause any other problems anywhere?
23:31 <+MrHairgrease> I have no idea
23:31 <+MrHairgrease> but we can set it back
23:31 <+MrHairgrease> what it does is
23:31 <+MrHairgrease> return null as undef true as 1
23:31 <+MrHairgrease> and false a zero
23:32 <+MrHairgrease> in stead of JSON::NoStriong objects
23:32 <+MrHairgrease> if you don't do it webgui will complain like this:
23:32 <+MrHairgrease> 2007/09/13 12:47:43 - WARN - dev2.conf - Log::Log4perl::Logger::__ANON__[41] - Couldn't call method importPackage on asset for url: root Root cause: Operation "eq": no method foun
23:32 <+MrHairgrease> d,
23:32 <+MrHairgrease>         left argument in overloaded package JSON::NotString,
23:32 <+MrHairgrease>         right argument has no overloaded magic at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm line 2097.
23:33 <+MrHairgrease> this was caused by an undef synopsis field
23:33 <@rizen> knowmad, thanks, but i did that before
23:33 <@rizen> you'll note that isn't the same output
23:33 <@rizen> it's creating an array of hashreferences
23:34 <@rizen> i c
23:34 <@rizen> in that case, do it mhg
23:34 <+MrHairgrease> ok
23:34 <+MrHairgrease> but first
23:34 <+MrHairgrease> im gonna have dinner
23:34 <+MrHairgrease> it's 22:30 over here
23:35 <+MrHairgrease> and I'm getting hungry =)
23:35 <@rizen> hehe
23:35 <@rizen> have a beer too
23:35 <+MrHairgrease> I already have
23:35 <@rizen> but don't hack webgui druknk
23:35 <@rizen> drunk
23:35 <+MrHairgrease> no worries
23:36 <+MrHairgrease> I prolly don't have time before monday
23:36 <+MrHairgrease> ok
23:36 <+MrHairgrease> see you
23:39 <@Haarg> that fix with $JSON::UnMapping is already in
23:39 <+MrHairgrease> ok
23:39 <+MrHairgrease> cool
23:39 <+MrHairgrease> bye
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23:39 <@rizen> Haarg rules
23:44 < knowmad> rizen, can i see your solution?
23:46 <@rizen> sure, but it's pretty much the same as before: http://rafb.net/p/mbbxV466.html
23:46 <@rizen> although one of your examples did teach me the cool rulevar directive
23:47 < knowmad> cool. it's different than the version you posted before lunch.
23:47 <@rizen> oh
23:47 <@rizen> sorry, about 3pm ish when you came back i posted it again
23:47 < knowmad> musta missed it
23:47 <@rizen> i must not have caught your attention though
23:48 <@rizen> it's cool that you can write your own little programming language with Parse::RecDescent
23:48 <@rizen> i'm starting to wonder why more modules don't use it
23:48 < knowmad> yeah, it's a fascinating module
23:48 <@rizen> i'd think that template toolkit and HTML::Template would be faster if they were written using it
23:49 < knowmad> i don't know what the overhead is for using it. seems like i saw some discussion about that somewhere.
23:50 <@rizen> thanks for your help btw
23:50 < knowmad> yw
23:50 <@rizen> the reason i started learning this is because at perl mongers tonight i'm doing a talk on using perl for system adminstration
23:50 <@rizen> and there are lots of config file parsers out there
23:50 < knowmad> it was a fun challenge and i don't use PRD enough in my day-to-day work
23:51 <@rizen> but i wanted to show them what they could do if they couldn't find one to parse some config they come across
23:51 <@rizen> yeah...it's not something you'd use every day
23:51 < knowmad> wish i could be there. sounds like fun.
23:51 <@rizen> the presentation and an mp3 file will be posted to madmongers.org afterward if you are interested
23:52 < knowmad> great. i'll check it out.
23:52 <@rizen> again, thanks
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23:53 <@rizen> btw...there are a couple of bofs at the wuc you may  be interested in
23:53 < knowmad> have a good one
23:53 <@rizen> check out the wuc wiki and sign up if you're interested
23:53 < knowmad> where are the BOFs posted?
23:53 < knowmad> plainblack.com/wuc?
23:53 <@rizen> yup
23:53 < knowmad> ok, will do
23:53 < knowmad> i didn't know about the BOF's. might be a good news piece.
23:54 <@rizen> good point
23:54 <@rizen> i'll have kristi write something up
--- Day changed Fri Sep 14 2007
00:14 < nuba> hey jt
00:14 <@rizen> howdy
00:14 <@rizen> how's maps?
00:14 < nuba> just saw your email from yesterday
00:14 < nuba> no good news, im afraid :/
00:14 < nuba> many things happened here
00:15 < nuba> got a monster flu and stayed in bed for week+
00:15 <@rizen> i'm sorry to hear that
00:15 <@rizen> any chance it will be working before the wuc?
00:15 < nuba> then hectic schedule at work, post-vacation, if you know what i mean
00:16 < nuba> then on top of that my grandma is hanging in a thread, not sure if i'll stay in rio or travel to middle of south-america at any moment
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00:16 <@rizen> crappy
00:16 < nuba> so yeah yo ucan say its all working agsint the idea of the sept 15 target date
00:16 <@preaction> when i'm running benchmarks for these things, do i have to destroy/re-open the session between iterations? i get some impossible figures: 0.021 seconds to run 500 pages through the REGEX engine
00:16 < nuba> maybe for the wuc
00:16 < nuba> not for sept 15 for sure
00:17 < nuba> i did a lot more of research on googlemaps after 7.4 was released
00:18 < nuba> did all tutorials on a couple of hacking-googlemaps books i got
00:18 < nuba> and some coding to the asset, but not a lot
00:18 < nuba> thats the state of the union 
00:19 <@rizen> sorry to hear about your grandma, thanks for the update
00:19 < nuba> np, sorry for the delay, im not being online a lot lately
00:19 <@rizen> preaction: better if you do
00:20 < nuba> thanks re: grandma
00:21 < nuba> hows the schedule plan for 7.5 ? got any already?
00:22 <@rizen> that will be announced at the wuc
00:23 < nuba> that meaning no 7.5.0 before mid-oct, then?
00:24 <@rizen> correct
00:24 < nuba> ok
00:24 <@rizen> at least as far as i'm willing to say publically at this time
00:25 < nuba> ok
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02:08 < cap10morgan> most of the time when i commit things, spectre gets a 500 internal server error on the first try (and sometimes the second...); i have no idea what's going on, but is there any place to start debugging it? if i restart spectre, it will commit just fine.
02:09 <@preaction> can WebGUI connect to spectre? are the spectreIp and spectrePort settings in your webgui.conf correct?
02:09 < cap10morgan> yeah, like i said, it will eventually go through, and if i restart spectre, it goes through
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04:11 < dionak> does anyone know where the hover help js and css is?
04:11 < dionak> for instance, when you're in a tab in admin and hover over an element, hover help is displayed in a box...
04:12 < wgGuest08> How do I edit the rc.webgui - adding TZ info?
04:14 < dionak> what are you trying to do?
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04:16 < wgGuest08> I'm following WRE instruction for Binaries and it's the last step before I start WRE
04:24 < dionak> i see why you're asking. it sounds like a top level variable. i'm not a plainblack developer, btw. have you tried adding it as a top level variable? unfortunately, i'm running wre 0.8 so I don't have rc.webgui anymore to test...
04:24 < dionak> just upgraded today
04:25 < dionak> or you could set it command line tonight via export and post to support or the forums
04:26 < dionak> another thought, if it works exporting via command line...you could add the export to the .bashrc of the user that starts webgui on boot. 
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04:28 < wgGuest08> I'm setting up a server at home for testing before I get commercial hosting. I don't knoe much about webgui, but I was following the WRE Instructions fine until I got to the time zone issue
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04:36 < dionak> so you echoed $TZ and got nothing back i'm guessing. i think any of these suggestions would work. i'm lazy so if i were testing, i would first try setting it command line and, if that worked, add it to the .bashrc of the user starting the rc.webgui (probably root)
04:37 < dionak> try that and let me know if it works
04:39 < wgGuest08> I'm on SSH - what exactly do I have to do. I'm the only user.
04:40 < dionak> try typing 'export TZ=<your timezone>' and starting rc.webgui
04:40 < dionak> oh, after typing export TZ=<timezone>, type 'echo $TZ' to see what the result is..
04:41 < dionak> you should get whatever you entered. make sure it's a valid tz
04:41 < dionak> where are you?
04:42 < dionak> i'm 'America/New York'
04:42 < wgGuest08> Same
04:42 < dionak> or US/Eastern
04:42 < dionak> try US/Eastern
04:43 < wgGuest08> The export cmd worked. 
04:43 < wgGuest08> Thank you
04:43 < dionak> is webgui working?
04:43 < dionak> you're welcome
04:45 < wgGuest08> WebGUI started.
04:45 < dionak> great! 
04:45 < dionak> glad i could help...
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07:28 < elnino> hello.  I thought I saw somewhere in webgui a place where you can "temporarily" turn off webgui and put upa "maaintainance page" was I dreaming?
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07:37 < elnino> sorry, I lost connection. 
07:38 < elnino> I thought I saw somewhere in webgui where I could temporarily take down webgui andput up a maintainance page. Was I dreaming?
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17:06 <@rizen> the end of the world is near
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17:08 <@rizen> see, i told you
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19:17 < nuba> rizen: i once submitted a bug with the subject "TagCloud (Keywords.pm)", with a patch,
19:17 < nuba> so that "this thing" would be treated as a single tag
19:17 < nuba> instead of '"this' being one tag, and 'thing"' being another tag
19:18 < nuba> i see the bug was closed long ago, but browsing the HEAD for Keyword.pm, it seems it was just ignored
19:21 < nuba> it is still splitting on " "
19:23 < nuba> .oO(btw assuming Perl Best Practices is to be followed to the line, then it should be q{ } instead of " ")
19:25 < nuba> oh i searched the thread and im seeing your reply only now. 
19:26 < nuba> you think the escaped tag with " feature is "neither intended nor desired" ?
19:28 < nuba> its funny, having to use only single-word tags sounds weird, counter-intuitive to me
19:31 <@rizen> tags on almost every site in the world are single word tags
19:31 <@rizen> that's why i rejected it
19:32 <@rizen> however, feel free to reopen the RFE, and i'll approve it this time. i've thought about it since i closed the rfe and decided that it doesn't really hurt anything to allow multi-word keywords
19:40 < nuba> it was a bug; should I reopen the bug or head for a RFE instead?
20:01 < dionak> sounds like an RFE...
20:37 <@rizen> rfe
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20:54 < jdan> Hi, Is it any function in API to validate date before make some farther operations? I'm using setToEpoch function and if someone enter wrong date function aborts
20:55 <@preaction_> "aborts"? it doesn't return undef?
20:55 < jdan> In my case WebGUI reports: 2007/09/14 15:34:23 - WARN - webgui7.conf - main::[[undef]] - Couldn't call method editOfferSave on asset for url: oferty Root cause: Invalid day of month (day = 31 - month = 09)  at /usr/share/perl5/DateTime/Format/Strptime.pm line 444
20:56 <@preaction_> might want to use DateTime yourself then. there's a nice wrapper around it for WebGUI: WebGUI::DateTime
20:57 <@preaction_> or you could trap with an eval BLOCK
20:59 < jdan> I tried it but I had some problems. Of course I'll try one more.
21:00 < jdan> Another question is how to use WebGUI::HTMLForm in wobect function? When I use it form is incomlet and JavaScripts not supoort pools like date.
21:01 < jdan> My pools don't have popup callendars etc
21:02 <@preaction_> uhm. you're going to need to give me a more specific question and an example of what you're doing, what it does, and what you want it to do
21:02 <@preaction_> perlbot pastebin
21:02 < perlbot> (see paste)
21:03 <@preaction_> perlbot paste
21:03 < perlbot> Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.
21:03 < jdan> not pool, data fileld ... sory
21:04 <@preaction_> the session->style->setScript is called by the WebGUI::Form::DateTime control and gets the proper javascript it needs
21:08 < jdan> I pasted my little code. See it at http://sial.org/pbot/27490
21:09 < jdan> At this code I have two importand problems. First is date validation. Second is attachments display. It doesn't work the same like in operations mode. 
21:11 <@preaction_> date validation should happen at the javascript level, but no date calendar is popping up? are there any script errors?
21:11 <@preaction_> what is "operations mode"?
21:13 < jdan> For me opration mode is when I call ?op=opertion
21:14 <@preaction_> what version are you running?
21:15 < jdan> I think last, I'll check it
21:16 < jdan> 7.3.21-stable
21:18 <@preaction_> the only thing i can think of for the attachments code is that you seem to be duplicating what the Image control does. it handles all the displaying and validating of attachments for you
21:18 <@preaction_> and date you're going to have to eval { }
21:21 < jdan> okey, I'am adding eval block
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21:49 < jdan> It's little complex for me. How should I use WebGUI::DateTime in order to get data from form? When I run: $publicToDate = WebGUI::DateTime->new($session->form->process("publicToDate"));    it return undef to variable
22:00 < seriftron> Hi, I am having some issues importing a package into 7.5.6-beta. I get errors like "Could not set uid/gid on '/data/WebGUI/www/uploads/7P/7B/7P7BOhr303Qz7x2110miCA/thumb-headerBg.gif' for all of the files in the package. When I check the user/group permissions on the file manually, all appears to be well. The files do not appear, though. And, strangely, I can see a listing of the package's files under the version tag I try to
22:00 < seriftron>  import under.
22:00 < seriftron> Has anyone else experienced this?
22:01 <@rizen> there is no 7.5.6
22:01 < seriftron> Ack - 7.4.6-beta.
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22:04 < jdan> Regarding to my problems with date. I managed using $session->datetime->setToEpoch. It parses both human forms: short(without time) and long. And if date is wrong it doesn't abort wobject function.
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22:22 <@rizen> seriftron: most likely it's a privileges or path problem
22:23 <@rizen> usually your uploadsPath would be /data/domains/www.example.com/public/uploads
22:23 <@rizen> but i see you have something iddferent
22:23 < seriftron> Hmm. Where is that set?
22:23 <@rizen> in your webgui config file
22:24 <@rizen> the other thing could be that your "uploads" folder needs to be recursively owned by your web user, which is usually "nobody"
22:30 <@preaction_> jdan, you know, if you're using a Date form control, you can just use $session->form->process("name","Date"); and it will give you the epoch time back
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23:02 < jdan> preaction_, thanks. Your advice were perfect.
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14:55 < nuba> rizen: i saw the rfe was accepted, cool, thx
14:57 < nuba> rizen: just for the record, i was being funny in the rfe, not sarcastic
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17:55 <@rizen> is there a difference?
17:55 <@rizen> sarcastic is funny
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19:22 <@khenn> happy day before monday
19:22 <@rizen> so it is
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18:19 < danny_mk> Hmmm... what is            "$webguiRoot{id $self} = $webguiPath;"  in Config.pm???
18:19 < danny_mk> is that right?
18:20 < danny_mk> I know that it is a hash, I am a little concerned about the key because I am getting errors on one of my sites.
18:21 < danny_mk> it is on line 160 of Config.pm
18:22 <@rizen> that's right
18:23 <@rizen> did you upgrade to Config::JSON 1.1.0 or higher?
18:24 < danny_mk> hold on, let me check
18:25 < danny_mk> darnit, I have to stop asking questions.  You always catch me with these simple errors that have to do with updates.
18:25 < danny_mk> Config::JSON -- '1.0.3'
18:26 < danny_mk> thanks
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20:16 < dionak> quick question for anyone that can answer. I need to export data from a dataform object via command line. What's the most direct way to do this? Is there an existing command or script?
20:17 <@preaction> use wget to call the appropriate URL?
20:17 <@preaction> or curl?
20:18 < dionak> idk...it might be easier to just access the db.
20:18 <@preaction> the export URL gives you a csv doesn't it?
20:19 < dionak> yes but i would need to have the script create a session and login before getting the url. 
20:20 <+MrHairgrease> why not write a utility script
20:20 <+MrHairgrease> just instantiate the asset
20:20 <+MrHairgrease> and call www_exportTab on it
20:20 < dionak> that sounds appropriate. 
20:20 < dionak> i'll look into that. thanks. 
20:20 <+MrHairgrease> it returns the plain tab seperated file
20:20 <+MrHairgrease> ok
20:21 < dionak> that would be fine...
20:21 < dionak> great! thanks MrHairgrease and preaction.
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21:03 < rjacobsen> did you guys ever come out with a way to limit the things that would show up in the admin console for different user groups?
21:04 <@rizen> yes...in 7.4
21:04 <@rizen> under settings
21:04 < rjacobsen> and allow (for example) group A to make a new page 
21:04 < rjacobsen> but group B could not do anything
21:05 <+MrHairgrease> that would be asset privs
21:05 <+MrHairgrease> those are in the conf file
21:05 <@rizen> not to mention the security tab in each asset
21:05 < rjacobsen> yikes
21:05 <+MrHairgrease> security tab?
21:06 <+MrHairgrease> those settings would set who can change an asset right?
21:06 < rjacobsen> i have a group and all i want to allow them to do is to create a new web page, import images(file pile)
21:06 <+MrHairgrease> not who can create new instances
21:07 < rjacobsen> and i would like to limit what they see in the admin console to add a new page
21:07 < rjacobsen> and file pile
21:07 <+MrHairgrease> you should be able to set that in the conf file
21:07 <+MrHairgrease> check out the default file that comes with webgui
21:08 <+MrHairgrease> i think it's socumented there
21:08 <+MrHairgrease> s/s/d/
21:09 < rjacobsen> i have to get with my it for that i guess
21:09 < rjacobsen> i wish they would implement the change i asked for :(
21:10 < rjacobsen> where when you select a group in webgui, it would bring up a list of admin console items and you could put a check next to the ones you want displayed
21:11 < rjacobsen> would make running multiple site and multiple groups very easy to manage
21:12 <+MrHairgrease> you should make that an rfe
21:12 <+MrHairgrease> i you haven't already
21:13 < rjacobsen> i have
21:13 < rjacobsen> twice
21:13 <+MrHairgrease> =)
21:13 < rjacobsen> and was told (by email) that it was implimented 3 patches ago
21:13 < rjacobsen> and ......it has not
21:14 <+MrHairgrease> ok
21:14 <+MrHairgrease> i cannot comment on that
21:14 <+MrHairgrease> nor do i want to
21:14 < rjacobsen> lol
21:14 <+MrHairgrease> i have no idea about the ins and outs
21:14 <+MrHairgrease> i'm just hip, fashionable eurotrash with loads of sex appeal =)
21:15 < rjacobsen> umm..... O K
21:22 <+MrHairgrease> perlbot MrHairgrease
21:22 < perlbot> Martin Kamerbeek, aka MrCookingGrease, aka Eurotrash with sex appeal, and is a Contributor of the Year
21:22 <+MrHairgrease> see? =)
21:28 < dionak> lol
21:29 <+crythia1> hee
21:30 <+crythia1> perlbot crythias
21:30 <+crythia1> whew
21:39 <@preaction_> rjacobsen, your RFE was implemented in 7.4. In the Settings tab under the Admin console you can pick what group can see what Admin function. none of the Asset functions are affected by this though
21:40 <@preaction_> there's a new tab on the settings screen called Permissions
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23:18 < rjacobsen> ok when will stable 7.4 be released? my IT guy refuses to update from 7.3.22 until the 7.4 stable is released :(
23:18 <@preaction_> from all reports: this week
23:18 <@preaction_> if something bad wrong happens, next
23:19 < rjacobsen> ok cool
23:19 < rjacobsen> thank you
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--- Day changed Tue Sep 18 2007
00:03 < xootom> With one of two sites on my codebase, when I try and import a package, the log contains: Could not set uid/gid on... for every file, though the file has been uploaded and extracted. Looks like someone else had this problem with 7.3.18, and the only other reference Google returns is directly to Archive::Tar. Could it be the filesystem?
00:25 <+MrHairgrease> I've seen the same thing, but upon inspection the uid/gid were set
00:25 <+MrHairgrease> and everything worked
00:25 <+MrHairgrease> so I guess it's not a biggie
00:26 <+MrHairgrease> rizen
00:26 <+MrHairgrease> when you said that I could add the import collateral data thingy
00:26 <+MrHairgrease> did you mean right now?
00:26 <+MrHairgrease> or should I wait for the 7.5 dev cycle?
00:27 <@rizen> you can add it now as long as you're willing to test it very well. only a very small population of users actually use packages, so i don't think it will hurt much
00:27 <+MrHairgrease> ok
00:28 <+MrHairgrease> it's a very pailess procedure
00:28 <+MrHairgrease> painless
00:29 <+MrHairgrease> it'll take only a couple of lines
00:35 <@rizen> any aussie's online today?
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00:46 < xootom> MrHairgrease - yeah it seems to work just nothing appears in the asset tree
00:47 <+MrHairgrease> oh
00:47 <+MrHairgrease> which version are you on?
00:47 <+MrHairgrease> You'll prolly get errors concerning JSON::NoString in your logs as well rigt?
00:49 < xootom> 7.4.6, umm no other errors really, and my main site on the same wre is fine
00:51 <+MrHairgrease> hmm
00:51 <+MrHairgrease> that bug was fixed in 7.4.6
00:51 <+MrHairgrease> dunno then
00:51 < xootom> not to worry it's only a hobby site
00:51 <+MrHairgrease> i'm tsting importing packages too
00:52 <+MrHairgrease> when i find something
00:52 <+MrHairgrease> i'll let you know
00:52 < xootom> ok thanks :)
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02:57 <@preaction_> webgui has ads out on google adsense?
02:57  * preaction_ just ran across one
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08:12 < xdanger> hmm... I'm importing data through a script but every asset I create has it's own versionTag. Can someone help?
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09:02 <@preaction_> xdanger, pastebin your code somewhere?
09:02 <@preaction_> are you committing your version tag?
09:02 <@preaction_> are you skipping the autocommit workflows?
09:03 < xdanger> I just found out about "skipAutoCommitWorkflows"
09:03 < xdanger> on addChild
09:03 <@preaction_> they only happen on Post/Thread, WikiPage, or Event objects currently
09:04 < xdanger> it's threads i'm importing
09:04 < xdanger> wohoo... It works... kinda
09:05 < xdanger> urls are not that hot...
09:05 <@preaction_> kinda?
09:05 <@preaction_> when using the API to import data, nothing gets done for you
09:05 < xdanger> It doesn't do any of the automatic Thread stuff... like urls, menutitles or like that
09:05 <@preaction_> so you have to make your own url, probably using $session->url->urlize( parenturl . menuTitle )
09:06 < xdanger> but that's where edit branch comes handy ;)
09:06 <@preaction_> or that
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10:52 < xdanger> it takes a long time to commit 4000 new threads =)
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16:42 < SDuensin> Morning
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20:08 < MrHairgreas1> no here's a fun bug
20:08 < MrHairgreas1> if you set some asset's edit group to group X
20:08 < MrHairgreas1> and after that you delete group X
20:08 < MrHairgreas1> you won't be able to do anything with it anymore
20:08 < MrHairgreas1> since canEdit will always be false
20:09 < MrHairgreas1> unless you're the owner I think
20:09 < MrHairgreas1> the reason for this is that WebGUI::Group->new doesn't check if the groupId is actually valid
20:10 < MrHairgreas1> and will happily instantiate a new wg::group object
20:10 < MrHairgreas1> what i did to fix it is this
20:10 < MrHairgreas1> let wg::Group->new check if the groupid is valid
20:10 < MrHairgreas1> if not return undef
20:11 < MrHairgreas1> in canEdit I put a check if the group object is undef
20:11 < MrHairgreas1> if it is use the admin group
20:11 < MrHairgreas1> The thing is
20:12 < MrHairgreas1> I'm uncertain if that is the right approach?
20:12 < MrHairgreas1> any comments?
20:12 <@rizen> it's certainly the right approach, but i can't say for sure that it won't break something
20:13 < MrHairgreas1> indeed
20:13 <@rizen> but i think in this case better to deal with those consequences, than broken code
20:13 < MrHairgreas1> the other approch i considred
20:13 < MrHairgreas1> is let wg::group return the admin group in case of an invalid gid
20:13 < MrHairgreas1> but that seems wrong
20:14 < MrHairgreas1> otoh
20:14 <@rizen> yeah, don't do that
20:14 < MrHairgreas1> that wouldn't break stuff for sure
20:14 < MrHairgreas1> but i agree with you not to do it
20:14 < MrHairgreas1> shall i fix it in svn?
20:14 < MrHairgreas1> the way i described it at first?
20:15 <@rizen> yes please
20:15 < MrHairgreas1> ok
20:15 < MrHairgreas1> will do
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21:33 < beatnik> at the perl conference a few weeks ago, recommended I'd take a look at webgui after my talk on the CMS I talked about.. but I have a small question..
21:33 < beatnik> is it really a good idea to include apache, perl, mysql, imagemagick and awstats in the "binary" package?
21:35 < knowmad> hi beatnik, what is your concern with doing it this way?
21:35 < beatnik> that it might screw up my existing perl, apache, mysql and imagemagick installation?
21:36 <@rizen> there are only two points at which you can have that kind of overlap
21:37 < knowmad> ports are the only problem i can see
21:37 <@rizen> one is if you use a mysql config file in /etc/my.cnf
21:37 <@rizen> and the other is ports
21:37 < knowmad> ah, forgot about the my.cnf file
21:37 <@rizen> you obviously can't have two programs running on the same port
21:37 < beatnik> but is there a reason to actually include all that stuff?
21:37 <@rizen> yes
21:37 <@rizen> lots of reasons
21:37 <@rizen> 1) most operating systems are way behind...don't have all the latest versions that we require
21:37 <@rizen> mysql 5 is a big example
21:38 <@rizen> for some stupid reason a lot of os's still use mysql 4
21:38 <@rizen> also apache 2
21:38 < beatnik> but if you set it as a requirement?
21:38 <@rizen> for some reason a lot use 1.3
21:38 <@rizen> hold on
21:38 <@rizen> and because of that, most people don't know how to compile their own versions of those things to get them up to date
21:39 <@rizen> 2) the versions of software that come with operating systems are compiled and tuned for a general purpose use
21:39 <@rizen> the versions that come with the wre are compiled and tuned for webgui
21:39 <@rizen> 3) webgui has a lot of prereqs
21:39 <@rizen> most package management systems don't include all the prereqs
21:39 <@rizen> especially in the area of perl modules
21:40 <@rizen> 4) because the wre has standard versions of everything, and standard file locations
21:40 <@rizen> it makes it far easier for us to support
21:40 <@rizen> us as a company, and us as a community
21:40 <@rizen> 5) because of the complex nature of the install and config process for webgui
21:40 <@rizen> most people either would never get it installed
21:40 <@rizen> or it would take them a week
21:41 <@rizen> the wre allows you to get it up and running in under an hour
21:41 <@rizen> and the new wre takes that time to less than 10 minutes
21:41 <@rizen> ok...so that's our reasoning
21:41 <@rizen> go ahead and ask your questions
21:42 < knowmad> For my part, I like it because it falls right in line with the Perl virute of Laziness (which I think sums up rizen's response)
21:42 < beatnik> ok but let's assume that you want to run other stuff on that apache too?
21:43 < beatnik> are you stuck then?
21:43 <@rizen> nope
21:43 <@rizen> you have three options
21:43 <@rizen> 1) you can install your other stuff to run under the WRE
21:44 <@rizen> 2) you can configure the WRE or your OS to use different ports so both can be running simultanously
21:44 <@rizen> 3) you can run your other stuff on your own apache under some weird port, and then use the WRE's modproxy to bring it under port 80
21:45 <@rizen> we do this for example on one of our servers
21:45 <@rizen> www.webgui.org is running on the WRE
21:45 < beatnik> ok but in "production", running it on different ports is not an option
21:45 <@rizen> and svn.webgui.org is running on a different IP and apache on the same box
21:45 <@rizen> yes it is
21:45 <@rizen> you can either run it on separate IPs
21:45 <@rizen> like i just said
21:46 <@rizen> or you can run it on a weird port, and then use modproxy to bring it into port 80
21:46 < beatnik> I understand what you mean and technically it makes sense..
21:46 <@rizen> also like i just said
21:46 <@rizen> also
21:46 <@rizen> there's nothing stopping you from just installing WebGUI from source
21:46 <@rizen> other than a whole lot of time to get all the prereqs installed
21:46 <@rizen> we don't force anybody to use the WRE
21:47 <@rizen> we just recommend it because your life will be easier, guaranteed
21:47 < beatnik> forgive me for being a pain in the ass :)
21:47 <@rizen> you're not
21:47 <@rizen> this is a common question
21:47 <@rizen> because it goes outside normal thought patterns
21:47 <@rizen> but this is actually becoming more and more the standard
21:48 <@rizen> Damian Conway gave a speech about this very topic at OSCON this year
21:48 <@rizen> do you know who he is?
21:48 < beatnik> the only talk I saw Damian give this year was in Vienna about physics
21:48 < beatnik> in fact, I have 2 of his books.. signed ;)
21:48 <@rizen> excellent
21:48 <@rizen> then you know that he's not a dumb guy
21:49 < beatnik> au contraire :D
21:49 < beatnik> I know that big companies are also providing "packages"
21:49 < beatnik> but those packages are usually running on dedicated servers..
21:50 <@rizen> the WRE is really designed to run on a dedicated box too
21:50 <@rizen> but many people share it
21:50 <@rizen> including us, as i just stated
21:51 < beatnik> I'm forced to think about a lot of those things too.. as I said before, I also have a CMS
21:51 <@rizen> anyway...my point is that the WRE is easy, it's good, and it's useful...but you don't have to use it
21:51 <@rizen> what is your CMS?
21:51 < beatnik> spine
21:52 < beatnik> http://spine.sf.net
21:52 < beatnik> quite a bit of the same prereqs
21:52 < beatnik> but not extremly specific
21:53 <@rizen> it looks pretty nice
21:53 < beatnik> it lacks lots of documentation
21:54 < beatnik> and it's pretty much a one man show
21:55 <@rizen> hmmm..perhaps we can convince you to come over to the darkside
21:55 < beatnik> but the install procedure is pretty much : install the perl modules (the standard way), import database, copy images. copy config to apache conf dir (+edit) and restart
21:55 <@rizen> migrate your user base into webgui, and help us make webgui a better product
21:55 < beatnik> :)
21:55 < beatnik> very tempting.. now if I even had a userbase ;)
21:56 < beatnik> I've been working on this for the past 7 years.. after that long, I'm not eager to change
21:56 <@rizen> understood
21:56 <@rizen> won't mention it agian
21:56 <@rizen> s/agian/again/
21:56 < beatnik> no prob for asking..
21:57 < beatnik> it's more of a therapy for me.. but your colleague webgui user told me to look into webgui and I will
21:58 <@rizen> man..it's amazing how similar that looks to the early webgui days
21:59 <@rizen> looking at screenshots now
21:59 < beatnik> the look pretty much remained unchanged since the early days
21:59 < beatnik> I should have a link to the presentation handy
21:59 <@rizen> hehe...we used to do the enter to <br> thing too
22:00 <@rizen> we also used to use the unix-like privilege system
22:00 <@rizen> very cool
22:00 < beatnik> what made you change?
22:00 <@rizen> lots and lots of user experience
22:00 <@rizen> feedback
22:00 <@rizen> webgui is very much a product of our users
22:01 <@rizen> there are about 10,000 deployments of webgui world wide
22:01 < beatnik> see.. I dont have that feedback.. unfortunatly
22:01 <@rizen> we're the most widely deployed modperl2 app on the planet
22:01 <@rizen> what have you done to promote your community?
22:02 <@rizen> or are you not doing it simply because it's therapy for you?
22:02 <@rizen> wow we used to have the file manager thing too
22:02 < beatnik> promotion is not all that easy..
22:02 <@rizen> although we called it collateral manager
22:02 <@rizen> but it looked very very similar
22:02 < beatnik> actually, the filemanager is a more recent addition
22:03 < beatnik> recent as in.. last 2 years or so
22:03 <@rizen> 2 years ago is when we got rid of ours
22:03 <@rizen> we moved to something we call the asset tree
22:03 <@rizen> which is kind of a virtual filesystem
22:04 <@rizen> but in this way, files, images, templates, and content can all be comingled
22:04 < beatnik> what I did to promote it: cmsmatrix, talked about it at yapc, blogged about it, put it in mod_perl app list
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22:04 <@rizen> do you also publish press releases to cmsinfo.org, and newsforge?
22:04 <@rizen> also, get linked on oscom.org
22:04 < beatnik> nope..
22:05 <@rizen> all the things you did are good
22:05 < beatnik> I'm even porting back to CGI too ;)
22:05 <@rizen> also, regular releases to freshmeat.net are a big help
22:06 < beatnik> this is why I like communities :)
22:07 < beatnik> http://www.ldl48.org/hendrik/Introduction.ppt  # presentation I did at yapc...
22:08 <@rizen> i spoke at YAPC::NA last year too
22:09 <@rizen> it's good, but it's a bit like preaching to the choir
22:09 <@rizen> also, it's hard to get the word out about a cms these days
22:09 <@rizen> there are an estimated 2,000 content products on the market
22:10 <@rizen> downloading your pres
22:10 < knowmad> rizen, where did you get that figure?
22:10 <@rizen> yahoo
22:10 <@rizen> they did a study of it a while back
22:10 <@rizen> and published the study on developer.yahoo.com or something like that i believe
22:10 < beatnik> there are quite a bit out there indeed
22:10 < knowmad> that's some heavy competition but also good for us integrators to throw around ;)
22:11 <@rizen> there are over 800 of them listed on cmsmatrix.org alone
22:11 < beatnik> when I started, there were a handful
22:12 < beatnik> setup: "dev only" ?
22:13 <@rizen> yup, same as me
22:13 < knowmad> has anyone here integrated the suckerfish menus into webgui navigation template?
22:14 <@rizen> beatnik, i think that spine will run quite well under the WRE
22:14 <@rizen> probably much faster than you're used to
22:14 < beatnik> BTW suggestion: the setup process probably can use the ****** thingie for the mysql passwd
22:14 <@rizen> even if you don't want to have anything to do with WebGUI, you might want to check out the WRE
22:14 <@rizen> true
22:14 < beatnik> I'll see if I can document on how to get it running on wre.. once I get it installed
22:29 < beatnik> "Do you have WebGUI local or should I get it from a mirror?"  What is the correct answer on this one.. and why?
22:31 <@rizen> mirror
22:31 <@rizen> local means you've already downloaded it
22:31 <@rizen> that wording has been improved in the 0.8 installer
22:31 < beatnik> aah.. is there a way to restart it?
22:31 <@rizen> unfortunately not with 0.7
22:31 <@rizen> the install process was messy and error prone
22:32 <@rizen> i'd recommend playing with the 0.8 technology preview version
22:32 <@rizen> it's much better
22:32 <@rizen> and will be out as stable in less than a month
22:32 <@rizen> http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds/wre/
22:33 <@rizen> the only caveat if you decide to use it is that if you're on a linux platform you need to comment out line 41 in wreconsole.pl
22:33 <@rizen> that's fixed in the real version, but not in the tech preview version
22:33 < beatnik> downloading..
22:33 < beatnik> macosx here
22:34 <@rizen> ok, with macosx the special notes you need to follow are in the install.txt
22:34 <@rizen> you just have to comment out two lines for osx
22:35 <@rizen> and that is automated in the final version also
22:45 <+MrHairgrease> beatnick: have you been talking to Jesse at the yapc?
22:47 < beatnik> good question.. I have his card somewhere
22:47 < beatnik> I believe he was american tho
22:47 <+MrHairgrease> he's from australia
22:48 < beatnik> mmm lemme see if I can dig up his card
22:48 < beatnik> he pointed me to this channel :)
22:48 <+MrHairgrease> muyst be him
22:48 <+MrHairgrease> he's the only webgui guy I know to have been there
22:50 <@rizen> he's not american though
22:50 <@rizen> he's australian
22:50 <+MrHairgrease> so I said =)
22:51 <@rizen> oh crap
22:51 <@rizen> sorry
22:52 < beatnik> found card..yes, jesse kinroy-smith
22:52 <+MrHairgrease> cool
22:53 <+MrHairgrease> he was on his euro trip
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22:55 < beatnik> if you fancy seeing the conference pics, I can probably point you to some links
22:55 <@rizen> cool
22:55 <@rizen> beatnik, if you play around with webgui, and have any feedback for us, i'd love to hear about it
22:56 < beatnik> I will play and feed back :)
22:56 < beatnik> http://use.perl.org/~barbie/journal/34454
22:56 < beatnik> barbies pics
22:56 <@rizen> it's always interesting to get feedback from someone who has going through the same trials and tribulations we have
22:57 < beatnik> same on this side..
22:57 < beatnik> http://picasaweb.google.com/hendrik.vanbelleghem/     # see Vienna City and Conference pics
22:58 < beatnik> the "install wizard" idea has been stuck in my head for a few months too.. found it a bit tricky to do for me tho
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23:05 <@rizen> feel free to steal ideas
23:06 <@rizen> just give credit if any is due
23:08 < beatnik> obviously..
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23:51 <+MrHairgrease> rizen
23:51 <+MrHairgrease> do you want to issue a warn if a nonexistant groupId is used?
23:54 <@rizen> yup
23:54 <+MrHairgrease> ok
--- Day changed Wed Sep 19 2007
00:06 <+MrHairgrease> I take it the importCollateralAssetData thing should not be labeled fix?
00:06 <+MrHairgrease> or should it
00:06 <+MrHairgrease> in the changelog
00:08 <@rizen> why not?
00:08 <@rizen> it is a fix
00:09 <@rizen> the api was broken
00:09 <+MrHairgrease> i thought so too
00:09 <+MrHairgrease> but i sensed from your response the other day that it was not completely =)
00:09  * MrHairgrease start cleaning his crystal sphere
00:14 <@rizen> well i'm a little hesitant because it is an api change even though it's fixing the broken api
00:15 <@rizen> and my biggest concern is that i want 7.4 rock solid going into the wuc
00:15 <@rizen> so therefore it's imperative that you test everything very thoroughly 
00:17 <+MrHairgrease> you mean the group thing?
00:17 <@rizen> i mean ANYTHING you check in to svn
00:17 <+MrHairgrease> sure
00:17 <+MrHairgrease> I always test before comitting
00:17 <@rizen> i don't mean usual testing
00:17 <@rizen> i mean hard core wrack your brain testing
00:18 <+MrHairgrease> ok
00:18 <@rizen> like i said, i need 7.4 to be absolutely solid going into the wuc
00:18 <+MrHairgrease> about the import thing i'm harcorewreckedgazillionpercent sure it won't break
00:18 <@rizen> pb has spent a lot of time and energy on this, so i wouldn't want anything else to influence it
00:19 <+MrHairgrease> The group thing will cause all kinds of hell if it is not fixed
00:19 <+MrHairgrease> more exact
00:19 <+MrHairgrease> the kinds of hell I have been debugging this afternoon =)
00:19 <@rizen> i'm glad you're looking into that
00:19 <@rizen> please don't check it in until you're sure it's 1000000000000009999.9999% fixed
00:23 <+MrHairgrease> for the import thing I am
00:23 <+MrHairgrease> the group fix however is very hard to be that certain that nothing will break
00:23 <+MrHairgrease> b/c it's used pretty often
00:23 <+MrHairgrease> however
00:23 <+MrHairgrease> if things bork with this fix
00:24 <+MrHairgrease> they will do so noticably
00:24 <+MrHairgrease> in stead of silently f*ck shit up
00:24 <+MrHairgrease> as is the case now
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00:36 <+MrHairgrease> the import thing is in
00:36 <+MrHairgrease> the group thing you may decide on
00:37 <+MrHairgrease> wnat the diffs?
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02:11 < cap10morgan> exporting data form submissions as tab delimited spits them out in totally random order
02:11 < cap10morgan> I've looked at the code and it's sorting by sequenceNumber in the sql query
02:11 < cap10morgan> but it doesn't end up that way in the tab delimited
02:11 < cap10morgan> is that a known issue? (in 7.3.22)
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02:37 <+MrHairgrease> cap10morgan
02:37 <+MrHairgrease> check the changelogs
02:38 <+MrHairgrease> if it is not in there
02:38 <+MrHairgrease> it's probably not known =)
02:39 <+MrHairgrease> https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/view/WebGUI/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt
02:41 < cap10morgan> thanks MHg
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17:28 < rjacobsen> i just went and did a test site in webgui to see the changes coming and apparently you guys did not understand my rfe....
17:30 < rjacobsen> when someone logs in with "turn admin on" for instance... they should only see what they are allowed to do in the new content/admin console window....
17:31 < rjacobsen> so now im logged in with a limited account and i have a whole list of stuff to be able to do under "New Content", but all of it except a few items say "Permission Denied"
17:31 < rjacobsen> so why not just hide what that user group cannot do?
17:32 < xootom> that sounds like an rfe i created at http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/hide-new-content-side-panel-for-non-privileged-users#-kBnY4ZNMM8V1FNOgrT3ig
17:39 < rjacobsen> well I have had my RFE posted twice now and they finally make it live and it doesnt have the fix I was asking for :( .... I think the "New Content" section should only display what that user/group is allowed to do to eliminate many headaches
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17:45 < xootom> it does respect what the user's group is allowed to do, i.e. which wobjects they're allowed to add, e.g. i've only got about 6 for most users, so they only see article etc in the new content menu, and when i'm logged in i see sql report etc
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17:46 < xootom> my rfe was that the new content panel should be hidden, like when youre on the user profile page, when you're on a page you don't have access to add new content onto, is that the same as your rfe?
17:50 < rjacobsen> ya basically - i dont think the limited user should see anything they are not allowed to do - and with running 24 sites in webgui, and adding 14 more in the next month, I am sure you can see the tech support issues this can cause
17:51 < rjacobsen> easiest way to eliminate questions is to never let them see the source of the question in the first place
17:51 < xootom> i just reread your original message, you say that limited users can see certain wobjects that they don't have access to add, e.g. they can see sql report if they aren't in a group that can add it? that doesn't happen with me, which version are you running
17:53 < rjacobsen> i was just using the test version of 7.4.6 (demo site in webgui)
17:53 < rjacobsen> and when i log into the limited user account I can see everything under the New Content heading
17:54 < xootom> how did you add the privileges for different types of content to the demo site on webgui? e.g. to give only admins sql form:    "assetAddPrivilege" : { "WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::SQLForm" : "3" },
17:54 < xootom> in the config file
17:54 < rjacobsen> i dont think i can access the config file in the test site
17:55 < xootom> i think turn admin on users would have access to add all asset types if it's not set in the config file
17:55 < rjacobsen> http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1190211545_960/ is the site - test is the username and 1234 is the password
17:57 < xootom> yes that user will have permission to add any type of asset... but yes it's the problem in my rfe, that it doesn't hide the new content panel for pages the user isn't an editor of
17:58 < rjacobsen> i think the "New Content" menu should reflect what only that group can do, or simply not show at all
17:58 < xootom> i agree, you could add some karma to my rfe :)
18:00 < rjacobsen> i burned all mine on my last one :(
18:00 < rjacobsen> gave you my last 10 karma lol
18:01 < xootom> :-) lol
18:05 < rjacobsen> well have a good day.... time for me to get back to work
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19:09 < rjacobsen> good morning all - I was interested possibly in purchasing the webgui content managers guide for webgui and making it into a simple pdf to put on a web page for the 20+ site holders we have inside our main webgui platform to use
19:09 < rjacobsen> is this possible?
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19:10 < rjacobsen> we make the site, and host them for our dealers, and i was wanting to put some documentation on how to do stuff inside the sites
19:10 < rjacobsen> the webgui content managers guide seems to fit the bill if i were allowed to buy a copy and make it available on an online web page that only our dealers could see
19:11 < rjacobsen> in like a pdf format they could read and use for guidance
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19:29 < xootom> i've seen that asked before and i'm pretty sure it's a no no
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20:19 < danny_mk> http://www.webgui.org/downloads/builds/7.4.6-beta/api/HTML.html
20:20 < danny_mk> look at the makeParameterSafe method
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20:40 < danny_mk> OK, is there a good way to sanitize or "makeParameterSafe" from a posted form?
20:54 < danny_mk> I guess I am going to have to do it with JavaScript before I post to the form.
20:54 < danny_mk> s/post to the form/submit the form/
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20:59 < wgGuest98> I need basic help from anyone - I have a basic Jpg image Im loading to be the entire page but I have a text field to the left which is pushing my image to the right. How do I remove this text field 
20:59 < wgGuest98> See it at - http://www.vacumi.com/playerspack
21:00 < danny_mk> OK, that is easy.
21:01 < wgGuest98> cool - how?
21:03 < danny_mk> create a style that only contains the basic html and within the body tag put <tmpl_var body.content>
21:05 < wgGuest98> Sorry to be so stupid, but is this creating a new design template and how do I do this?
21:06 < danny_mk> OK, turn admin on
21:07 < wgGuest98> yep
21:07 < danny_mk> Under the admin console click on assets
21:07 < wgGuest98> done
21:08 < danny_mk> click on the root node
21:08 < wgGuest98> ok
21:09 < danny_mk> click on the "import node"
21:09 < wgGuest98> ok
21:10 < danny_mk> under new content click on Folder and call your folder "my templates" or whatever you prefer
21:12 < wgGuest98> ok
21:13 < danny_mk> click on the folder so that you can put your new template there
21:13 < danny_mk> sorry template = style
21:13 < wgGuest98> ok
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21:14 < danny_mk> under new content click "Template"
21:15 < wgGuest98> k
21:16 < danny_mk> Enter a name for the template but make sure that you use a url for the style like "mystyles/blank" and that the Namespace is set to "style"
21:17 < danny_mk> then within the body simply put <html><head><title>myStyle</title></head><body><tmpl_var body.content></body></html>
21:19 < danny_mk> well, actually myStyle should probably read "Players Pack"
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21:21 < wgGuest43> this window timed out on me - I have a few questions about the style template 
21:22 < danny_mk> ok
21:22 < wgGuest43> So for title - Im calling it "HTML jpg page"
21:22 < wgGuest43> For menu title - blank?
21:22 < wgGuest43> For URL - playerspack/blank?
21:23 < wgGuest43> Namespace - style
21:23 < wgGuest43> Template - <html><head><title>Playerpack</title></head><body><tmpl_var body.content></body></html> 
21:23 < danny_mk> you can use whatever you want there, the important thing is to remember to keep the namespace as "style" and the url something you will remember "playerspack/blank" is good
21:23 < wgGuest43> ok
21:24 < wgGuest43> what about the template part as - <html><head><title>Playerpack</title></head><body><tmpl_var body.content></body></html> 
21:25 < wgGuest43> thanks for the help by the way.
21:25 < danny_mk> then, go to the page and change the style template to "playerspack/blank"
21:26 < wgGuest43> ok, let me try this.
21:26 < wgGuest43> actually - sorry but where on the page do I do this?
21:27 < danny_mk> go into the asset tree
21:27 < wgGuest43> ok
21:27 < danny_mk> and click on the edit link for the page playerspack
21:28 < wgGuest43> Not seeing that
21:29 < danny_mk> http://www.vacumi.com/root?func=manageAssets
21:29 < wgGuest43> ok
21:30 < danny_mk> try:  http://www.vacumi.com/playespack?func=edit;proceed=manageAssets
21:30 < wgGuest43> ok
21:31 < wgGuest43> change the style template and printable style to HTML jpg page?
21:32 < wgGuest43> sweet!
21:32 < danny_mk> don't worry about the printable style.
21:33 < danny_mk> don't forget to commit your changes
21:33 < wgGuest43> ok, that is awesome. Thank you very much - you're worth your weight in gold!
21:33 < danny_mk> no problem.  Have to run.  good luck.
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09:39 < AMH_bob> :P
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18:27 < xootom> can anyone tell me, is it possible to execute a script if the admin deletes a user? there appear to be "on create user" and "on update user" settings, but not deletion
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18:41 < ckotil> im pretty sure its on the list of things to do
18:42 < ckotil> some of the code is alredy in place.
18:42 < ckotil> all thats missing is the actual script execution and UI stuff.
18:44 < xootom> ahh no problem thanks
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12:25 < dapperedodo>  /msg nickserv link dodo 10bier
12:25 < dapperedodo> set email irc@dapperedodo.com
12:26 <@preaction> uh... you might want to change that password
12:30 < dapperedodo> already done:)
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20:57 < cap10morgan> danny_mk: you there?
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21:42 < danny_mk> I am here now!
21:43 < danny_mk> I at at work and use a KVM switch to go between my desktop and my notebook (this system)
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22:08 < cap10morgan> danny_mk: hey
22:08 < cap10morgan> i sent you a message on webgui.org
22:08 < cap10morgan> about your OpenID module
22:09 < cap10morgan> I think it's great and I want to help get it included in core
22:09 < cap10morgan> are you going to the WUC?
22:10 < danny_mk> I will try to get there
22:10 < danny_mk> not sure yet
22:11 < danny_mk> I am guessing you have used it right?
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22:54 < cap10morgan> yes, i have
22:54 < danny_mk> cool
22:54 < cap10morgan> i'm planning to roll it out to 70+ sites :)
22:54 < cap10morgan> so i'd love to see it get included in core
22:55 < danny_mk> I actually think it is a great approach for authentication
22:55 < cap10morgan> i'm hoping we can organize a little pet-RFE boot camp at the wuc where PB staff can help us get our favorite RFE's ready for core inclusion in 7.5
22:55 < cap10morgan> (or maybe 7.6 by then)
22:55 < danny_mk> I use a few different containers and languages, I would like to manage my users with one tool and provide authentication and authorization across my projects
22:55 < cap10morgan> yeah, definitely
22:56 < danny_mk> well, let me know if you are doing the pet-RFE, I am not sure if I will be able to make the WUC but I am trying
22:57 < cap10morgan> ok, will do
22:57 < cap10morgan> i posted a patch for OpenId.pm
22:57 < danny_mk> I thought I fixed the protocol issue in the latest release
22:57 < cap10morgan> did you see that?
22:57 < danny_mk> no
22:57 < cap10morgan> it basically makes it so you can enter me.domain.com, http://me.domain.com, or http://me.domain.com/ and it'll work
22:57 < danny_mk> Are you sure the fix was not included in my latest release?
22:58 < cap10morgan> well, it wasn't working :)
22:58 < cap10morgan> when did you upload the latest?
22:58 < danny_mk> hmm.... I thought I fixed that.  Let me check my copy.
23:00 < danny_mk> Hmmm.... I don't see the fix in my version
23:00 < danny_mk> I will have to look for the patch.
23:01 < danny_mk> Ah, you put it in the actual authentication module.
23:02 < danny_mk> it should really go in the Macro instead.
23:16 < cap10morgan> danny_mk: i'm hoping to use the module outside the macro in some things i'm working on
23:16 < cap10morgan> so more forgiveness of the data at that level benefits me
23:20 < danny_mk> OK, but remember.  You need to sanitize the data your passing to the module before you use the module.
23:20 < cap10morgan> sure, but one of things that my patch fixes is the data entry in the user edit form
23:21 < cap10morgan> it sanitizes that a little
23:21 < cap10morgan> (just checks for "http://" on the front and adds it if it's not there)
23:21 < cap10morgan> so that the form it's stored in in the database is more similar to what the openid provider sends back
23:22 < danny_mk> Ah, you mean when a user admin is editing that field for a user
23:22 < cap10morgan> i also changed it so that it uses the value it gets back from the provider as the url it looks up in the db
23:22 < cap10morgan> yep
23:22 < cap10morgan> that helps sanitize it for free
23:22 < cap10morgan> since the provider will usually send back the "canonical" form
23:23 < cap10morgan> then the only other thing it does is see if there is a trailing slash on the entry (in the login macro field) and puts a "?" after in a regexp or a "/?" if there's not one
23:23 < cap10morgan> that way the db value can have a trailing slash or not and it will still work
23:24 < cap10morgan> since it seems like that's always going to a thorn in peoples' sides, regardless of what the spec says
23:24 < danny_mk> OK.  I will take a look at the patch later.  I have to finish this online test before I go home tonight   :-(
23:24 < cap10morgan> ok, no worries
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04:54 < diakopter> http://blogs.technet.com/askperf/archive/2007/09/18/internet-explorer-a-bigger-cookie-jar.aspx
04:55 < diakopter> that could explain many of the IE issues I've experienced with web apps over the last decade.
04:58 < diakopter> also http://therealcrisp.xs4all.nl/blog/2007/02/12/ie-and-2-letter-domain-names/
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09:54 <+Radix_> Well I'm back home now :)
09:54 <+Radix_> hey dapperedodo :)
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09:55 < dapperedodo> hai
09:55 < AMH_bob> haai
09:55 <+Radix_> :)
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09:56 <+Radix_> Arrived back from London last night
09:56 <+Radix_> Was an awesome trip :)
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16:28 < sno> In the Project Tracker discussion forum, is there a way to exclude closed tickets/discussions from the display?
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17:27 < sno> In the Project Tracker discussion forum, is there a way to exclude closed tickets/discussions from the display?
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19:10 < danny_mk> Has anyone run into problems passing quoted strings that contain commas to db->execute([@_]); in a macro?
19:11 <@preaction> does it make it to the macro? the macro parser is a regular expression that sometimes doesn't do things exactly right (but it's faster than the alternative)
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19:45 < danny_mk> yup, I had to write a wrapper around the FormParam just in case someone submitted a form with commas in the text
19:45 < danny_mk> I am sure there is another way to do it I just had to get this done quickly
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20:19 < dionak> i'm trying to create a theme for webgui but i'm having some trouble exporting the associated images. i packaged them up with the styles and templates but upon importing them into another system, the images aren't there. 
20:19 < dionak> i tried downloading a theme from add-ons and am getting the same thing
20:19 < dionak> has anyone else experienced this?
20:20 < dionak> or is it just me?
20:20 < dionak> when i go to view an image, i get redirected to /uploads/.... and get a 404
20:20 <@preaction> check the error log?
20:21 < dionak> looking...
20:21 <@preaction> perlbot step 1
20:21 <@preaction> perlbot step 1 is No matter what, step 1 is always "Check the Error Log"
20:21 < perlbot> added step 1 to the database
20:22 < dionak> thanks..
20:22 < dionak> Could not set uid/gid on '/data/WebGUI/www/uploads/sF/OV/sFOVQaxRwTFa7z-Ypu2ONA/comment.gif'
20:22 < dionak> Couldn't read image to check the size of it: Exception 495: Unable to access configuration file (magic.mgk)
20:23 <@preaction> haven't seen that one before
20:24 < dionak> they are on my system...in the uploads
20:24 < dionak> perhaps that last error is in relation to a failure to make thumbs?
20:25 <@preaction> yes
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23:15 <@rizen> dionak that means you're using the wre 0.8 alpha
23:16 <@rizen> and graphics magick is broken in that
23:16 < dionak> isn't WG moving to another graphic lib?
23:16 <@rizen> yes, graphics magick
23:16 < dionak> maybe i need to set that up instead?
23:16 < dionak> oh
23:16 <@rizen> no, that's what's in the WRE 0.8 alpha
23:17 <@rizen> it's missing a config file
23:17 < dionak> hm, any advice?
23:17 <@rizen> create a file at /data/wre/prereqs/lib/GraphicsMagick-1.1.7/config/magic.mgk
23:17 <@rizen> and put this into it:
23:17 <@rizen> <?xml version="1.0"?>
23:17 <@rizen>   <magicmap>
23:17 <@rizen>   </magicmap>
23:18 <@rizen> but you shouldn't be using 0.8 in prod yet
23:18 < dionak> we're not. we're using it for in house dev 
23:18 < dionak> on our local boxes
23:21 <@rizen> ok
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23:21 <@rizen> there will be a new alpha out at the end of the week that fixes the problem directly
23:21 <@rizen> but you can fix it by just doing that
23:22 <@rizen> the new alpha will also support windows
23:22 < dionak> cool. i'm giving it a try. 
23:22 < dionak> yes, i heard! i'm excited about that despite my lack of love for windows. 
23:29 < dionak> i have had an issue with modproxy since installing the new alpha but it seems likely to be an apache issue. i'm trying to run it on port 8080 but modproxy continues to try to connect to port 80
23:30 < dionak> eventually, i'll get a chance to look into it further
23:33 <@rizen> there are several places that you need to change that port number
23:34 <@rizen> did you do it during the install? or did you do it after the fact?
23:34 <@rizen> if you do it during the install then webgui should take care of modifying it everywhere
23:34 < dionak> during the install
23:34 <@rizen> s/webgui/wre/
23:34 <@rizen> hmm
23:34 <@rizen> ok i'll have to have a look at that
23:35 < dionak> i took a look at WRE::ModProxy and printed out the start command. it appears to be passing in the correct conf /data/wre/etc/modproxy.conf
23:36 < dionak> which defines Listen as 127.0.0.1:8080. then i checked my included configs. not sure what's happening. 
23:36 < dionak> that's what made me wonder if it was an apache thing
23:50 < dionak> The "Could not set uid/gid" from earlier is coming from Archive::Tar (Storage.pm) 
--- Day changed Tue Sep 25 2007
00:00 <@rizen> is your uploads folder recursively owned by the user that you set the WRE to run as?
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00:10 < dionak>  WebGUI/www/uploads/ was but domain/../public/uploads wasn't. fixed that but still see the error from Archive::Tar. 
00:11 <@rizen> also check your uploadsPath in your config file
00:11 <@rizen> that's also broken in alpha3
00:11 < dionak> ok
00:15 < dionak> it looks correct in my site.conf (/data/WebGUI/etc). The file I'm looking for exists in /data/WebGUI/www/uploads. i'm noticing a 'data' dir in domains/dev.localhost.localdomain/public/uploads/.
00:16 < dionak> my site config reads "uploadsPath" : "/data/WebGUI/www/uploads",
00:17 <@preaction> i think that's a bug, i get that a lot with the new WRE
00:17 <@preaction> the misconfigured uploadsPath
00:17 < dionak> what should it be?
00:17 <@preaction> the /data/domains/<yourdomain>/public/uploads
00:17 < dionak> ah
00:23 < dionak> ok, this is looking a lot better. :)
00:23 < dionak> i'll make a note of that bug and pass the info around the office. thanks for your help!
00:23 < dionak> would you like me to file a bug or is there one already?
00:24 <@preaction> go ahead i think, i'm not sure if it really is one
00:24 < dionak> ok
00:25 <@preaction> you get the karma, but also get the backlash ;)
00:25 < dionak> lol, is that why there's not one? haha
00:26 <@preaction> no, i'm just the wrong kind of lazy that way
00:26 <@preaction> perlbot laziness
00:26 < perlbot> The quality that makes you go to great effort to reduce overall energy expenditure. It makes you write labor-saving programs that other people will find useful, and document what you wrote so you don't have to answer so many questions about it. Hence, the first great virtue of a programmer.
00:26 <@rizen> it's already fixed
00:26 <@rizen> in 0.8 alpha 4
00:26 < dionak> nice, that's my kind of lazy. cool, thanks rizen
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23:51 <+MrHairgrease> the ^GooeyDate; macro is broken on pb.com
23:51 <+MrHairgrease> http://www.plainblack.com/wg/contribute
23:51 <+MrHairgrease> bottom of page
23:51 <@rizen> i'll fix it
23:51 <+MrHairgrease> below the poll
23:51 <+MrHairgrease> ok
23:52 <+MrHairgrease> hey the wuc sold out
23:52 <+MrHairgrease> coolio!
23:52 <@rizen> fixed
23:53 <+MrHairgrease> Now it says 'Hi!'
23:54 <+MrHairgrease> shouldn't it display an octopus or something like that?
23:54 <@rizen> man you're picky
23:55 <+MrHairgrease> just practicing for the stump the chump session
23:59 <@rizen> fixed
23:59 <@rizen> i haven't tested yet though
23:59 <@rizen> so give me a sec
23:59 <+MrHairgrease> it works
23:59 <@rizen> yay
--- Day changed Wed Sep 26 2007
00:04 <@rizen> i can't believe that the WUC sold out this year
00:04 <@rizen> it's great
00:05 <+MrHairgrease> so
00:05 <+MrHairgrease> how many seats are there?
00:05 <@rizen> 50
00:05 <+MrHairgrease> ok
00:05 <+MrHairgrease> cool
00:05 <@rizen> well for the conference there are 50
00:05 <@rizen> 10 each for the two workshops
00:05 <@rizen> but those are supposed to be smaller
00:06 <+MrHairgrease> Joeri and I are going to watch Henri Rollins wednesday
00:06 <+MrHairgrease> in the barrymore theatre
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00:06 <@rizen> nice
00:06 <@rizen> Have you ever seen him?
00:06 <+MrHairgrease> no
00:06 <+MrHairgrease> but 
00:06 <+MrHairgrease> i know his spoken word stuff
00:06 <@rizen> Is he doing spoken word stuff, or the henry rollins band?
00:06 <+MrHairgrease> spoken word
00:06 <+MrHairgrease> which is much btter
00:06 <@rizen> yeah
00:07 <@rizen> the band is ok, but the spoken word stuff is much better
00:07 <+MrHairgrease> muscially henri was at his best in Black Flag
00:07 <+MrHairgrease> which is easily one of the mostest bestest bands ever
00:07 <@rizen> i've got comedy club tickets for friday night for the entire dutch team and pb staff
00:07 <+MrHairgrease> cool
00:07 <+MrHairgrease> is it like the amsterdam thing?
00:08 <@rizen> not improve
00:08 <@rizen> improv
00:08 <@rizen> it's a stage act
00:08 <+MrHairgrease> ok
00:08 <@rizen> so standard comedy stand-up stuff
00:08 <+MrHairgrease> cool
00:08 <+MrHairgrease> i never go to that stuff in holland
00:08 <+MrHairgrease> stand-up is not really part of dutch culture
00:08 <@rizen> could you pass the word about that to the rest of the dutch team so they don't plan anything for friday night?
00:09 <+MrHairgrease> sure
00:09 <@rizen> thanks
00:09 <+MrHairgrease> i'll send them a mail
00:09 <@rizen> i've got dinner reservations for all of you too
00:09 <+MrHairgrease> great
00:09 <+MrHairgrease> I like to eat =)
00:10 <@rizen> it's at the best steak place in madison
00:10 <@rizen> or at least as far as i'm concerned...it's the best
00:11 <+MrHairgrease> Won't argue with the master =)
00:12 <+MrHairgrease> I'm really looking forward to the wuc
00:15 <@preaction> infect us with your strange currency and your crazy "passeporte"
00:16 <+MrHairgrease> you mean our beautiful and eurotrashy 'paspoort' right?
00:16 <+MrHairgrease> =)
00:16 <@preaction> you said the e-word, not me
00:17 <+MrHairgrease> I'm not blaming you for not saying it
00:18 <@preaction> oh, we were ALL thinking it ;)
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02:09 <+MrHairgrease> no shit
02:09 <+MrHairgrease> there's a wg user on antarctica
02:09 < cap10morgan_> any chance we could have an "RFE marathon" at the WUC?
02:10 < cap10morgan_> i.e. hole up in a room one night, pick our favorite RFE, PB staff helps us get it ready for possible inclusion
02:10 < cap10morgan_> we code until we drop
02:10 < cap10morgan_> :)
02:10 <+MrHairgrease> there's the hackathon
02:10 <+MrHairgrease> which is well suited for that
02:10 < cap10morgan_> true
02:10 <+MrHairgrease> http://www.plainblack.com/wuc/wiki/hackathon
02:11 <+MrHairgrease> I'll prolly work on some project of my own then
02:11 <+MrHairgrease> but that'll be cool too
02:11 <+MrHairgrease> although you might not need it =)
02:11 < cap10morgan_> on that list now :)
02:11 <+MrHairgrease> cool
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02:13 <+MrHairgrease> hey jesse
02:13 <+MrHairgrease> you finished your eurotrip?
02:14 < cap10morgan_> should this RFE's difficulty be adjusted in light of the implementation that danny_mk did: http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/openid#mRsVPo4-VT3Cv61eV1rRcw ?
02:52 <+Radix_> Hey Martin! - yup, back at work now - and just heading off now actually :)
02:53 <+MrHairgrease> oh
02:53 <+MrHairgrease> i'm thinking of going to bed =)
02:53 <+MrHairgrease> see you later
02:54 <+Radix_> see ya :)
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16:21 < SDuensin> Greetings
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16:48 < rizen_> salutations
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16:49 < SDuensin> Hey rizen 
16:50 <@rizen> how goes it sd?
16:51 < SDuensin> Slowly.  :-)
16:51 < SDuensin> Hey, got a question for you...  
16:51 < SDuensin> Can I make WebGUI run the same site with multiple brands at one time?  ...
16:52 < SDuensin> For example, if people visit "site1.com" they get different content and themes than "site2.com", however, both sites use the same assets so I don't have to maintain them separately.
16:53 <@rizen> yes
16:53 <@rizen> that's what plainblack.com and webgui.org do
16:53 <@rizen> they are the same physical webgui site
16:55 < SDuensin> What about content?  If there's a forum on one, it'll be the same as on the other - right?
16:55 < SDuensin> (That's not what I want.)
16:55 < SDuensin> I've got a project that will have around six sites.  When I add features to one, I don't want to have to copy it manually into the others.  However, I want their content to be separate.  Make sense?
17:01 <@rizen> Huh?
17:02 <@rizen> So are you saying you want the same assets on all the sites, but you want the content of those assets to be different?
17:13 < SDuensin> Yea.  Weird, eh?  :-)
17:18 < xootom> isn't that just sharing a single code base using wre to addsite?
17:19 <@rizen> you can't maintain the same assets with two separate sets of content
17:19 < SDuensin> Kinda, xootom, but I want the site layout to persist.
17:19 < SDuensin> rizen - I figured that was the case.
17:19 <@rizen> an instance of an asset includes the content
17:19 <@rizen> however, what you could do is make packages out of the first site
17:20 <@rizen> and deploy those packages to the other 5 sites
17:20 < SDuensin> Guess I get to build one and hire a peon to copy it to the others.  :-)
17:20 <@rizen> so at least during the creation process
17:20 <@rizen> you wouldn't have to copy the settings
17:20 < SDuensin> rizen - That was my thought.
17:21 < xootom> the package idea, import into the other site and you could asset proxy in the theme components if they had the same url, and it would look different in each site?
17:23 < SDuensin> I have a few ideas that are close enough to actually make money from.  Problem is getting started.
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17:34 < elnino> hi. is there a way to produce a report of all the filepile assets?
17:35 <@rizen> filepile is a meta asset, so it creates other assets, namely files and images
17:35 <@rizen> you could do something like this:
17:35 <@rizen> select * from asset where className like 'WebGUI::Asset::File%';
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17:37 < elnino> sweet. Thanks!
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18:17 < elnino> in an rss object, is there a way to get more choices in the edit field that uses tinymce? I have about 5 buttons for choices. but I'll like to see all of them hat I see when I edit an article.
18:22 < elnino> my settings are already guru.
18:26 < elnino> never mind, I had to set the settings of the CS system to content manager
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18:42 < xootom> i've got a collaboration system using the weblog template, it shows the first bit of the thread then a read more link, but i can't get it to show more than a random number of words, one looks particularly silly as it's just showing "The" !
18:42 < xootom> how can i extend this?
18:45 < dionak> I understood that the synopsis (in one of the tabs) effects this...like you could write a custom 'teaser' and it would display that.  
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18:49 < dionak> i wish the blog worked more like wordpress. JT, which blog software do you look to for features?
18:49 <@rizen> i don't...we don't have a blog
18:49 <@rizen> we have the collaboration system
18:49 <@rizen> which is an animial completely to itself
18:49 <@rizen> s/animial/animal/
18:50 < elnino> Hi on the old webgui done right site, there used to be examples of sql reports. Have those been ported anywhere? I can't seem to find them.
18:52 <@rizen> dionak: at some point we should probably build a blog asset, and in that case i'd probably look at either wordpress, movable type, or blogger.com
18:58 < xootom> dionak: thanks, i was using the default posting template not the submission one, so hadn't seen the summary item - that's great, thanks
19:00 < xootom> i notice that all my cs posts are rated -1, could that be googlebot rating them? any way of finding out who did rate things?
19:11 < dionak> rizen: i would be happy to volunteer to be a part of that development. 
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19:47 < dionak> where can i find the DataForm template docs? it seems to be missing 
19:47 < dionak> from the help system
19:50 < dionak> nvrmind. i pasted the url string on webgui.org and found it
19:54 < elnino>  Hi on the old webgui done right site, there used to be examples of sql reports. Have those been ported anywhere? I can't seem to find them.
19:54 <@rizen> deleted
19:55 <@rizen> they were no longer useful and we no longer recommend going sql reporting directly against your webgui database unless you know what you're doing
19:55 <@rizen> because the schema has become very complex
20:00 < elnino> that's too bad, becaus ethere was a really good one about listing assets and incorrporating latest revision and such.
20:01 <@rizen> it was flawed
20:03 < elnino> well, it was exactly what I needed. I'd like to do a listing of all the assets that are pdfs. is there a recommendation? someone gave me select * from asset where classname like ... but I don't know what table to link to to get the url of the asset, title, the latestrevision, etc.
20:04 < elnino> did that display right?  I need to list pdfs on our site, and they are splattered everywhere.
20:05 <@rizen> contact pb support
20:05 <@rizen> or wait around here and see if anyone can help you...that's always an option
20:10 < elnino> here's another question. I'm trying to put a <div class="something"> in an article and the class attribute is getting stripped. Is this intentional?
20:11 <@rizen> depends upon your rich editor settings
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20:46 < elnino> oh sorry, i should have specified. I'n trying to put the div class="something"in an article template and it's being stripped from the template.
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20:57 < elnino> oh strange, I changed the name of the class and it works now.
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21:18 < dionak> maybe it was a class name being used by the editor?
21:24 < danny_mk> rizen:  What is your approach using db->execute([@_]); within a macro if the passed FormParam(*) contains commas?
21:25 <@rizen> how are you getting FormParam content into db->execute()
21:26 <@rizen> db->execute is an API level thing and FormParam is a macro
21:26 <@rizen> normally at an api level i'd do:
21:26 < danny_mk> give me a second, I i will get the code
21:26 <@rizen> $db->execute([$form->get("someField")]);
21:26 <@rizen> perlbot paste
21:26 < perlbot> Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.
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21:27 < danny_mk> http://sial.org/pbot/27742
21:28 < danny_mk> darnit, sorry that is the wrong code
21:28 <@rizen> i was going to say...i see no problem with that code
21:33 < danny_mk> Actually, that is the right piece of code.  It seems that if $_[4] contaings the string "Insert this string, into the table, right"
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21:34 < danny_mk> I will a message like "query expected 7 values but got 9" 
21:34 < danny_mk> s/will a/will get a/
21:34 < elnino> hi. is there a log of deleted items?  the system trash is empty, but I want to see if seomthing was deleted before the trash was purged.  Things misteriously disappear, and I think it's the users, but I can't prove anything.
21:37 <@rizen> the comma's inside a variable are irrelevant to that method
21:37 <@rizen> however, i don't know what's in your array there
21:38 <@rizen> the @_
21:38 <@rizen> perhaps there is a hash in there somewhere, cuz that would cause you some problems
21:38 <@preaction_> elnino, the assetHistory table might have something for you
21:38 < elnino> thanks. I'll look. but I supose I'll need a asset id?
21:41 < danny_mk> I will get back to you on the fix. 
21:43 < dionak> i'm writing a utility script to get all the entries out of a dataform asset using www_exportTab. I need to get the entryId of each of the entries. www_exportTab doesn't return this and it's obvious why. Is there an easier way to get the entryId than building a complex SQL statement? 
21:44 < danny_mk> Seems like I am not going to be able to make the WUC after all.  I may be down in GA for about 5 months.
21:44 < danny_mk> good luck with the conference
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21:48 <@rizen> dionak: to do what you want you're looking at some good old fashioned sql. no other way to do it
21:48 <@rizen> danny_mk: did you register for the wuc?
21:49 < danny_mk> No, I was not sure I was attending so I did not!
21:49 <@rizen> we sold out a couple days ago
21:49 <@rizen> no more seats left
21:49 < dionak> what was the limit?
21:49 <@rizen> 50
21:50 < danny_mk> I was hoping to talk about the OpenId module at the conference
21:50 <@rizen> you can still do it next year
21:50 <@rizen> hell, by then it may even be a part of the core, with 1000 new features added to it...then you'd really have a talk on your hands
21:51 < danny_mk> I think capt10morgan will be talking about OpenId at the conference.
21:51 < danny_mk> sounds good.
21:52 <@rizen> hmmm..no one has contacted us about that
21:52 <@rizen> does he need a BOF room?
21:52 < danny_mk> he was on this list a few days ago talking about it.  Not sure what his plan is.
21:52 <@rizen> i wish he were here right now. he brought up the idea of using the hackaton as an RFE-a-thon
21:53 <@rizen> i think that's a good idea
21:53 < danny_mk> that would be a great idea!
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01:54 < dj_perl> Hello all,
01:55 < dj_perl> Does WebGUI install out-of-the-box on Mac OS X?
01:56 < dj_perl> I'm getting errors connecting to MySQL, while running setup.
01:56 < dj_perl> ( This is Ashwin, working on WebGUI for PlainBlack )
01:58 <@preaction> OSX Intel?
01:58 <@preaction> WRE install?
02:08 < dj_perl> Yes
02:08 < dj_perl> and Yes
02:09 <@preaction> the latest WRE 0.8 alpha release?
02:11 <@preaction> is the wre/var/logs directory writable by everyone?
02:12 <@preaction> is there a "webgui" user? 
02:12 <@preaction> i know that was a hurdle, i had to find a script to make one
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02:33 < dj_perl> I have wre-0.7.2
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02:34 < dj_perl> There's no wre/var/logs directory 
02:34 < dj_perl> There'
02:34 < dj_perl> There's also no "webgui" user.
02:35 < dj_perl> The wre/docs/install.txt doesn't mention creating a webgui user.
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02:55 < dj_perl> brb
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03:59 < dj_perl> Anyone home?
04:01 <@preaction_> yes'm
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04:13 < elnino> Hi. if I purge old revisions older than a week (as a weekly workflow), will the history still remain in the assetHistory table?
04:14 < elnino> so I can see if things got renamed by someone at a later date and caused havoc?
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04:44 < elnino> Hi. if I purge old revisions older than a week (as a weekly workflow), will the history still remain in the assetHistory table, so I can see if things got renamed by someone at a later date and caused havoc?
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05:03 < cap10morgan> this is possibly a stupid question: can you add a new tab to every asset's properties w/o editing Asset.pm (or any other standard files)?
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05:10 <@preaction_> no
05:10 <@preaction_> if it's not in the definition, it's not in the club
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05:20 < elnino> Hi. I'm trying to find out what happened to a page that got Mysteriously "deleted" I suspect the url was redefined. I purge old revisions older than a week. I found nothing in the trash and nothing in the assetHistory table. Does the assetHistory table hold the revision information? 
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05:21 < elnino> in other words, is there a log table that might still have the history for that page? 
05:22 < elnino> or,  when I purge revisions, is that clearing out the assetHistory table?
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07:40 < elnino> when things are deleted, it seems that it is NOT tracked by version tags. Is this correct?
07:40 < elnino> s/things/assets
07:40 <+Radix-wrk> yes
07:41 < elnino> is there a log of things deleted that I can view (even after trash has been purged?)
07:41 <+Radix-wrk> Hmm.. no idea I'm afraid
07:42 <+Radix-wrk> probably not
07:42 < elnino> hmm. Do you know if after things are purged, if data is removed from the assetHistory table?
07:42 < elnino> let me restate.
07:42 <+Radix-wrk> I would expect so
07:42 <+Radix-wrk> but I don't know I'm afraid.. or I would've answered you earlier :)
07:43 < elnino> if trash is purged, are the corresponding records in the assetHistory tabled deleted.
07:43 < elnino> =)
07:44 < elnino> ok, how about this.  Do you purge your trash at all? or do you leave it as is? I've been doing it weekly, but maybe that is unecessary? I have a pretty powerful machine. I just like to keep things clean. but maybe too clean.
07:45 <+Radix-wrk> I generally leave it as is.. mine doesn't fill up that fast
07:45 <+Radix-wrk> there's a workflow to purge trash - I think it does it every month on my system
07:45 <+Radix-wrk> I might have set that myself tho.. seem to recall it being longer than that by default
07:45 < elnino> yes, I changed it to weekly. 
07:46 < elnino> I wonder if trash is the same as revision history?
07:46 < elnino> because I purget that too after a week.
07:46 < elnino> maybe I shouldn't.
07:46 <+Radix-wrk> err.. revision history is not trash
07:47 <+Radix-wrk> You shouldn't purge your revision history that often.. it means you can only roll back to a maximum of a week.
07:48 < elnino> actually I can see all the committed versions. that's kinda confusing.
07:48 < elnino> well, the reason why I clean the revision hsitory (particularly the urls) is because my users would keep changing the urls, and if the rev hsitory wasn't purged, they could never "recoop" a url that they wanted to use in the first place.
07:48 <+Radix-wrk> yeah, because urls are reserved if an object ever uses it
07:49 <+Radix-wrk> I think the better way to get around that is use the change url option in the asset view - that gives the option of renaming it permanently and straight away
07:50 < elnino> do "normal (content writers)" users have the ability to do that?
07:50 <+Radix-wrk> no idea actually :(
07:51 < elnino> so, it's been awhile since I've done this... in my weekly workflow, I have "delete asset revisions older than a week from the database"  do I just delete that so that it isn't run anymore?
07:52 <+Radix-wrk> I'd keep it, but run it less frequently
07:52 <+Radix-wrk> I think I have mine set to three months
07:53 < elnino> Well, the other reason why I made mine shorter, was because that's a long time to wait if you "broke" anything by changing a url. doyou know what I mean?  How do people check to see if they fixed all the links if they change a url?
07:53 < elnino> especially when wg keeps track of all the old urls?
07:53 < elnino> and honors them.
07:54 < elnino> I feel like Im missing something fundamental here.
07:54 <+Radix-wrk> Yeah - hasn't really been a problem for me yet
07:54 <+Radix-wrk> I know what you mean tho
07:56 < elnino> so.  a page gets "deleted" - I'm assuming that they renamed the url. but remains "active" until the revision history is purged either a week or 3 months later, and all of a sudden a page is really gone. and I'm supposed to figure out how it happened?
07:57 < elnino> there has got to be a way to figure this out, because I feel like they think I did it.
08:02 < elnino> ok. here's another question. The other angle I'm tryin is this: the parent of this page asset was deleted. are the children of this parent asset considered to be "live" or are they put into the trash too?
08:03 < elnino> or, is it only when the trash is purged is when the parent and children get purged?
08:03 <+Radix-wrk> children are put in trash too
08:04 < elnino> ok, so they can no longer be accessed either.
08:05 < elnino> so, things in the trash are considered "gone" from the website and can not be accessed at all. correct?
08:06 < elnino> it's late, I know that's an obvious question. Just making sure.... =)
08:28 <@preaction> no, things in the trash can still be accessed by assetproxy and some other ways too
08:29 < elnino> oh...  good to know. how about via browser url if the user knows the url of the asset?
08:29 <@preaction> not sure, i think no though
08:31 < elnino> how do you personally change a url of an asset? via properites or via asset manager with the change url option?
08:34 <@preaction> i tend to keep all my assets neat and clean by edit branch and making the URLs the parent URL -> menu title
08:34 <@preaction> which means maintaining the proper structure in the asset manager, which is easier for me logically
08:35 < elnino> for me too, but the people in the  mktg dept aren't me =)
08:36 <@preaction> meh, they're in the marketing department, you out-rank them on the website
08:36 <@preaction> though JT says the webmaster is dead, i tend to disagree
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08:37 <@preaction> damnit, this is why we shouldn't be wearing powers all the time...
08:38 < elnino> yeah, the webmaster is now the one to blame if things go bad and caused by mktg user error. whereas I was taking full responsibility because I was fully responsible for the website intrastructure AND content.
08:38 < elnino> before wg came along for us.
08:39 <@preaction> why not make the url property have a uiLevel of 9 and give everyone a uiLevel of 8?
08:39 <@preaction> personally, i dislike the idea of having a URL be completely arbitrary to where an asset is located in the tree
08:40 < elnino> yes, it does definately cause problems.
08:40 < elnino> how do I do that? and can't a user change their own uilevel under their account?
08:40 <@preaction> it doesn't let us do such wonderful things as directory handlers, where an asset could control an entire block
08:40 <@preaction> only people in the Admins group can change ui levels
08:43 < elnino> hmm. I'll have to think about thsi, there are instances where they do have to have a specific url format (not the path, but the end of it- traditionall what would be the "filename")
08:45 <@preaction> tell them to change the "menu title"
08:46 < elnino> but then the menu title isn't very pretty.  specifically, the portion of our site, the "filename" is the sku, and the title ane menu title is the product name. but I supose I can have them change the menu title AFTER the page has been created and saved.
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08:49 < elnino> preaction: thanks for the idea. I'll sleep on it. Good night. bye
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16:13 < SDuensin> 7.4.x STABLE!  WHOOO!
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16:40 -!- rizen_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.8-stable | WRE 0.7.2 / WRE 0.8 preview ]
16:58 < SDuensin> Hey rizen_ - how "preview" is WRE 0.8?
16:59 < rizen_> there's quite a few bugs in it that i've already fixed in the new version
16:59 < rizen_> there will be a new version out early next week. wait
17:00 < rizen_> plus, there's no upgrade path from WRE 0.8
17:00 < rizen_> 0.8 alpha that is
17:00 < SDuensin> Awesome.  Just curious.
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17:00 <@rizen> cap10morgan
17:00 < SDuensin> I'm excited about 7.4.8.  Gonna try out my new backup server and then upgrade!  :-)
17:01 <@rizen> i think your idea of making the hackathon into an RFE-a-thon is a good one
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17:01 < cap10morgan> yeah?
17:01 < cap10morgan> oh, cool
17:01 <@rizen> updated the wiki to say so
17:01 < cap10morgan> great. i'll probably be working on the OpenID auth RFE.
17:01 <@rizen> oh yeah, about that
17:02 <@rizen> someone was telling me that you plan on talking about OpenID at the wuc this year
17:02 < SDuensin> OpenID!  w00t!
17:02 <@rizen> but you haven't talked to us about a slot
17:02 < cap10morgan> i do? :)
17:02 <@rizen> are you planning on just doing it informally?
17:02 <@rizen> or were they out of their mind?
17:02 <@rizen> ok
17:02 < cap10morgan> possibly :)
17:02 <@rizen> i guess that answers that
17:02 < cap10morgan> i guess i could...
17:03 < cap10morgan> i've been working w/ it all summer
17:03 <@rizen> we don't have any slots for you unless you just want to do a BOF, then we could probably get a room for you after hours for that
17:04 < cap10morgan> yeah, that could be cool; seems like there might be others interested in it and/or willing to help hack the auth module together (it's 90% of the way there, thanks to danny_mk)
17:08 <@rizen> i think you might have more participation if we make the open id bof a subset of the hackathon bof
17:08 <@rizen> rather than putting it in it's own room
17:08 <@rizen> what do you think?
17:08 < cap10morgan> yeah, that sounds good
17:09 <@rizen> please go out to the wiki and add the open id bof
17:09 < cap10morgan> will do
17:09 <@rizen> thx
17:09 < cap10morgan> thank you
17:10 <@rizen> i'll make sure you have your own half of the room for that
17:10 <@rizen> then people that are interested, can go over there
17:10 < cap10morgan> great
17:10 < SDuensin> How many people typically attend the WUC?
17:10 <@rizen> last year there were 70 or so
17:11 <@rizen> this year we capped it at 50
17:11 < SDuensin> Not bad.  Hopefully one of these years I'
17:11 < SDuensin> ll make it.
17:11 <@rizen> last year was a bigger event cuz it was our 5 year anniversary
17:11 <@rizen> and because we were in las vegas
17:11 <@rizen> some people come just for that
17:12 <@rizen> we're thinking about capping from now on though. if we don't cap it, then we have to plan for 100 people showing up, which is much more expensive
17:12 < cap10morgan> i'm a wiki asset n00b; do WikiWords get turned into links?
17:12 <@rizen> nope, it's the titles of other wiki articles
17:13 <@rizen> There's an article called "BOFs" for example
17:13 <@rizen> so if you type that (no matter the case) it will be autolinked
17:13 < cap10morgan> i see
17:13 <@rizen> or if you type "JT Smith" it will autolink to my page in the wiki
17:15 < cap10morgan> hmm, now i'm struggling to see how you add an article to it
17:17 <@rizen> works like wikipedia
17:17 <@rizen> first you search
17:17 <@rizen> then you see the add link
17:18 < cap10morgan> i see, thanks
17:18 <@rizen> that ensures you're not adding content that is already there
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18:04 < streamlines> Hello folks. I'm trying to use the optional argument to the product macro to format the product info. The optional arg points to a templateId. I learned this is possible POD for Product.pm and at http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/product-macro 
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18:04 < streamlines> So two quick Qs, (please bear with newbie):
18:05 < streamlines> 1) What do I use for the templateId? Is it the title, the URL, the assetID (e.g. _hJBHAK-3yZibaiPALkrDg) or something else?
18:05 <@rizen> asset id
18:06 < streamlines> With the underscore, exactly as it appears when template is edited onscreen?
18:07 < streamlines> 2) When I edit my desired template, There is an uneditable field "namespace" that says "Product" , not "Macro/Product" as I'd like. How do I edit/change that? I notice at http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/wobject/asset-migration-guide: "the concept of namespace no longer exists." 
18:08 < streamlines> IT needs to be Macro/Product, according to the documentation for Product macro.
18:08 < streamlines> BTW, thanks rizen.
18:09 < streamlines> I neglected to mention that I've put a template inside a folder called Macro/Product (which I created under Import Node, patterning after existing ones Macro/Subscriptionitem, Macro/File, etc.). This was my attempt to get the correct namespace.
18:10 < streamlines> FYI I don't really know what "namespace" is---worse yet I can't edit it.
18:11 < streamlines> BTW running 7.4.8
18:13 <@rizen> you can only set the namespace when you create a template
18:13 <@rizen> after that it's set in stone
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18:15 < SDuensin> Why is that, rizen?
18:16 <@rizen> i honestly can't remember, but it probably had something to do with users screwing up namespaces
18:16 <@rizen> it's probably a "protect you from yourself" kind of thing
18:16 < SDuensin> hehehe
18:16 <@rizen> it's been that way since templates have existed in webgui
18:17 < SDuensin> Well, for me, it's a "damn, I gotta re-do that" kinda thing.
18:17 <@rizen> then submit an rfe to change it
18:18 < SDuensin> I was just curious.  I usually copy something and modify it when I create templates and things, so it doesn't bug me anymore.  :-)
18:25 < streamlines> So the concept of namespace still exists? OR rather, is still important? Contrary to http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/wobject/asset-migration-guide?
18:26 <@rizen> yes namespace still exists and is important
18:26 < streamlines> Thanks. do I have to "create" the namespce someplace before I create a new template and set it?
18:26 <@rizen> namespace for assets is completely different for namespace for templates
18:27 <@rizen> go to the asset manager and create a template
18:27 <@rizen> it's in the list
18:27 <@rizen> then on the properties tab there will be a namespace field
18:28 <@rizen> or if you copy any template with the appropriate namespace, you'll have it already
18:29 < streamlines> oh. thanks. I'll give that a whack....I see. I had copied--so I ended up with Product instead of Macro/Product. Seemed like no template already existed with Macro/Product namespace?
18:30 <@rizen> there's at least one
18:30 <@rizen> or you wouldn't ever see a product macro if you place it
18:30 < streamlines> RE syntax to call the second parater in the macro, just separate the two args by a comma? and assetId is case sensitive?
18:31 < streamlines> Oh I see re Macro/Product.
18:32 < streamlines> I need to learn OO perl. Is the concept of namespace a WebGUI thing or an OO Perl thing? 
18:33 <@rizen> both
18:34 <@rizen> template namespaces are used to separate templates so that when you see a drop down list of templates
18:34 <@rizen> you don't see all 300 of them 
18:34 <@rizen> only the ones that are useful to that particular thing
18:34 < streamlines> ah..makes sense. thank you very much. 
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18:42 < streamlines> rizen, when I go to create a new template, Macro/Product isn't in the dropdown list of namespaces. Didn't you say such a namespace should already exist (by virtue of at least one template having it)? 
18:42 <@rizen> it should, unless there is a bug
18:43 <@rizen> however, for this macro, namespace is irrelevant
18:44 < streamlines> can I leave the dropdown list unset and TYPE Macro/Product in the blank field beside it?
18:45 < streamlines> Remember, it not just the base macro function I need--that already works. I want to use the optional argument ti pull a template. The documentation says such a template must have MAcro/Product namespace. 
18:45 < streamlines> Is the documentation wrong?
18:46 < streamlines> See: http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/product-macro
18:46 <@rizen> from Product.pm it is looking for WebGUI::Asset::Template->new($session,$templateId)->process(\%var);
18:47 <@rizen> which is asset id
18:47 <@rizen> i don't see anything wrong in the product macro docs
18:47 <@rizen> maybe vague
18:47 <@rizen> but nothing worng
18:47 <@rizen> wrong
18:48 <@rizen> if you want additional support you're going to have to ask someone else, or contact plain black support. i'm busy.
18:48 < streamlines> I was coming to that....I have multiple Product.pms---maybe from upgrading since early 7.3? 
18:49 < streamlines> whoa....sorry man. I didn't mean to...
18:49 <@rizen> i'm not angry...just busy
18:50 < streamlines> I was't trying to be rude, rizen when I asked about docs wrong....I was  just acknowledging that you seem to know more that the docs. And I didn't see your busy statement till after I hit enter on the last thing. sorry man. 
18:50 < streamlines> (or woman). 
18:50 < streamlines> no offense. I' new at alll of this. 
18:51 <@rizen> again i'm not angry
18:51 < streamlines> thx.
18:51 <@rizen> i haven't been offended
18:51 <@rizen> i've just got other stuff to do
18:51 < streamlines> cool. thanks for you time already. you've been very helpful.
18:58 < streamlines> rizen: "it should, unless there is a bug"  you think I should submit a bug report? I'm happy to go figure out how.
18:59 < streamlines> cause Product/Macro really wasn't there. but my Product macro works to pull product only (not with optional 2nd arg)
18:59 < streamlines> sorry "Macro/Product" mistype above.
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19:29 < streamlines> I'm having a problem using a macro that accepts 2 arguments.  Since I've never done this before (but it works fine iwth just one arg),  I want to confirm my syntax is correct:
19:29 < streamlines> Can someone please type an example of how to type the ^Product(SKU or productId, [templateId]); format? 
19:30 < streamlines> Is the comma necessary? square brackets are required?
19:32 < streamlines> I know "^Macroname(argument);" is standard, but the question is how do I type the second arg, practically?
19:35 < xootom> the square brackets mean it's optional, so you don't need templateId
19:35 < xootom> you don't type in the brackets though
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19:36 < xootom> so ^Product(123); is valid, and ^Product(123, abc); is valid
19:36 < streamlines> I thought so. Thanks. comma separates the 2? space between comma and each arg matters?
19:36 <+MrHairgrease> yes
19:36 <+MrHairgrease> spaces are important
19:37 <+MrHairgrease> so you don not want to use them
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19:37 < streamlines> thanks. then I must be using the wrong thing for 2nd arg---rizen said assetId---thats the 23 characters displayed at the very top of the edit screen, right?
19:37 <+MrHairgrease> 22 characters
19:38 <+MrHairgrease> looks like garbled crap
19:38 < streamlines> yes..thats called a GUID, right? 
19:39 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
19:39 <+MrHairgrease> you should use the assetId of the template you want to use
19:39 < streamlines> hmm. then I guess I have a bug. Product macro doesn't work as described at http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/product-macro
19:40 < streamlines> mine, anyway.
19:40 <+MrHairgrease> what's the problem?
19:41 <+MrHairgrease> I just joined the channel so I missed the first part
19:41 < streamlines> well, it works as expected with just one arg. 
19:41 < streamlines> I'll fill you in , thank you for asking. 
19:41 < streamlines> so for the 2nd arg, I createda template....
19:43 < streamlines> First I didn't knwo what namespace was...rizen pointed out it must be set on templ. creation.  so I set namespace Macro/Product (as per documentation) on a new templ.
19:44 < streamlines> when I add that asset Id of that new templ as 2nd arg to ^Product, the macro simple shows in its entirety in the snippet
19:45 <+MrHairgrease> i see
19:46 <+MrHairgrease> you mean you see ^Product(sku,templId); on your page
19:46 <+MrHairgrease> in stead of it's desired outpiut
19:46 < streamlines> The macro is the ONLY thing in my snippet. and when I add 2nd arg, the entire syntax of the snippets's contents is displayed. YES.
19:46 < streamlines> RIGHT. 
19:46 <+MrHairgrease> ok
19:46 <+MrHairgrease> i know what's going wrong
19:46 <+MrHairgrease> but not yet why
19:46 <+MrHairgrease> =)
19:46 < streamlines> I tried playing with variations of the syntax, and sometimes I get the expected product not fount (or similar)
19:47 <+MrHairgrease> what I think is happening is that the template cannot be instanciated
19:47 < streamlines> Ahhh. :-) I'm happy you're here then.
19:47 <+MrHairgrease> in your webgui.log you'll prolly find errors concerning that macro and method being called on undefined values
19:48 <+MrHairgrease> do you have any spaces in your macro call?
19:48 < streamlines> Spaces? no. its a one-liner, and typed as discussed above. 
19:48 < streamlines> is that what you mean?
19:48 <+MrHairgrease> also did you commit the template?
19:48 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
19:48 <+MrHairgrease> like this
19:49 < streamlines> yes. lemme clear cache and reload to see whazzup. 
19:49 <+MrHairgrease> ^Product(mySKU, abcdefghEtc );
19:49 <+MrHairgrease> noticed the spaces before and after the templId
19:49 <+MrHairgrease> those should not be there
19:50 < streamlines> AHHHH. willcheck/fix right now.  You rock. 
19:51 <+MrHairgrease> So does Elvis =)
19:51 < streamlines> EUREKA!!! 
19:51 < streamlines> woooo hooo1
19:51 < streamlines> !!
19:51 <+MrHairgrease> I guess it works then?
19:51 < streamlines> someone should doc this!
19:51 <+MrHairgrease> probably
19:51 < streamlines> YES it workded. didnt even need to commit. 
19:52 <+MrHairgrease> also the macro should checj if it gets a valid templateId
19:52 <+MrHairgrease> no 
19:52 <+MrHairgrease> you don't have to commit if you are under the same version tag
19:52 <+MrHairgrease> as the template
19:52 < streamlines> This negates the need to sync---oh nevermind. Elvis lives!
19:53 <+MrHairgrease> I know he does
19:53 <+MrHairgrease> He's just been abducted by aliens
19:53 < streamlines> you a PB staff?
19:53 -!- xootom [n=tom@195.224.29.66] has quit ["Leaving."]
19:53 <+MrHairgrease> no
19:53 < streamlines> indie perl contractor?
19:53 <+MrHairgrease> no
19:53 <+MrHairgrease> i work for oqapi
19:53 <+MrHairgrease> oqapi.nl
19:54 < streamlines> so you jus tdo this for fun?
19:54 <+MrHairgrease> but only one day a week
19:54 <+MrHairgrease> you could see it as a paid hobby
19:54 <+MrHairgrease> this irc stuff i do just for fun
19:54 <+MrHairgrease> though
19:55 <+MrHairgrease> http://www.webgui.org/webgui/campaigns/people
19:55 < streamlines> pb takes care of you then? I don't mean to pry. just curious. don't answer if you prefer...
19:55 <+MrHairgrease> there you cfan find interviews with a number of wg developers
19:55 <+MrHairgrease> no i can take perfectly good care for myself
19:55 < streamlines> :-)
19:55 <+MrHairgrease> oqapi pays me to work on webgui
19:56 <+MrHairgrease> and the rest of the time i'm trying to graduate
19:56 <+MrHairgrease> oqapi is a dutch software company that does a lot of webapps
19:56 <+MrHairgrease> for which we use webgui
19:56 <+MrHairgrease> we used to be part of procolix
19:56 <+MrHairgrease> maybe you've heard of them before
19:57 < streamlines> ahhh yes. I remember you now. the hollader who hates american beers, right? yup I heard of procolix.
19:57 <+MrHairgrease> i never said I hate american beers
19:57 <+MrHairgrease> i hate light beers
19:57 <+MrHairgrease> which have no taste at all
19:58 <+MrHairgrease> I actually like the miller mgd stuff
19:58 < streamlines> I know. I'm just pulling your leg. *I* said I hate american beers. 
19:58 <+MrHairgrease> are you attending the wuc btw?
19:59 < streamlines> All the same, you helped out a great deal. No wuc for me this year. 
19:59 <+MrHairgrease> ok
19:59 < streamlines> and you---you'll be there?
19:59 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
20:00 <+MrHairgrease> but I gotta go to the grocery store
20:00 <+MrHairgrease> I'm hungry
20:00 -!- MrHairgrease is now known as MrAFkGrease
20:00 < streamlines> I have a love/hate relationship with WebGUI---tell you more later.
20:02 < streamlines> Do you know if theres now a simple GUI way to re-order navigation items? or to prevent /newasset from being /newasset2 if /newasset once existed? 
20:31 < cap10morgan_> i'm trying to import a package from a temporary storage location (all via the API) in 7.3.22
20:31 < cap10morgan_> but i get "Unsuccessful stat on filename containing newline" when I call $root->importPackage($storage)
20:32 < cap10morgan_> i didn't used to get that error in previous 7.x versions
20:32 < cap10morgan_> any ideas what's going on there?
20:32 -!- MrAFkGrease is now known as MrHairgrease
20:33 <+MrHairgrease> streamlines: You can order assets by dragging them in the asset manager
20:33 <+MrHairgrease> you should drag the rank#
20:33 <+MrHairgrease> you can only reuse that url if there is no revision of an asset witrh the url in the db
20:34 <+MrHairgrease> that includes revisions of trashed assets
20:34 < streamlines> thanks. I had thought of that, but it didn't work in 7.3.22---is that new in 7.4.x
20:34 < streamlines> ?
20:34 <+MrHairgrease> that has been in webgui for ages
20:35 <+MrHairgrease> cap10morgan: not sure but my guess from the error is that a filename gets borked
20:35 <+MrHairgrease> presumably a newline character is added after it
20:35 <+MrHairgrease> it could be a known bug though
20:35 <+MrHairgrease> check the changelog
20:35 < streamlines> Thanks MrHAirgrease . I mean the draggin of the rank is new? Mine maybe wasn't working. I'll try
20:36 <+MrHairgrease> also did you succesfully import the package you are trying out now in other versions?
20:36 <+MrHairgrease> or is it another package
20:36 <+MrHairgrease> streamlines: rank dragging has been in webgui for ages
20:37 < streamlines> okaay then . supported in firefox?
20:38 <+MrHairgrease> yes
20:38 <+MrHairgrease> just tried it on demo.plainblack.com
20:38 <+MrHairgrease> worked fine
20:38 <+MrHairgrease> that's not 7.3.22 though
20:39 <+MrHairgrease> just checked on a 7.3.22 site
20:40 <+MrHairgrease> rank dragging works fine
20:40 < streamlines> wow. I'm still hunting for where I'd re-oder items on my front page navigation--sorry I'm not so familiar with WG. I'm hunting thru assets now.
20:40 <+MrHairgrease> in ff 2.0.0.6/Linux
20:40 <+MrHairgrease> There is another way to move assets around
20:40 <+MrHairgrease> turn on admin
20:41 <+MrHairgrease> click on the icon of your asset left of the delete/edit/cut/copy toolbar
20:41 <+MrHairgrease> a menu will pop up
20:41 <+MrHairgrease> use the promote/demote links in that menu
20:47 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui
20:47 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ
20:47 < streamlines> ooookay. my wg must be really shot. I have a list of assets---left of the rank number theres a checkbox for each. Then below the total list, there a single toolbar, delete, cut copy/dupliceate, applies to anything checked. 
20:48 <+MrHairgrease> i mean the toolbar appering at the top of each asset when you view it
20:48 <+MrHairgrease> not in the asset manager
20:49 < streamlines> but no icon for each asset left of ----oooh. I see what you mean now. wow. cool. 
20:50 < streamlines> but I still can't reorder menu items--cause each on isnt an asset. or do I re-rank the  the page layouts? I'm going to try.
20:52 < streamlines> Elvis is the king. Now I know why you're called MrHAirgrease. 
20:52 < streamlines> Thank you.
20:52 <+MrHairgrease> Evrything you can include in a navigation is an asset
20:53 <+MrHairgrease> and has a rank
20:53 <+MrHairgrease> which you can reorder
20:54 < streamlines> kewl. next time I'm buying lunch. 
21:05 < streamlines> I have a page layout template in Root >Inport Node > Layout. It used to be the default layout for any new new page layouts I made--but I seem to have lost that behaviour somehow...
21:05 < streamlines> Can someone tell me how to get that back? (my site theme folder doesn't have a page laouyt in it). This is my last Q. really!
21:07 < streamlines> would copying (or moving) that layout template into my theme folder work? 
21:11 <@preaction> that page layout was a prototype? maybe change it back to a prototype?
21:14 < streamlines> Thanks. I'm not sure what a prototype is/does again. Have to go reading. that gives me a start though. would simply copying it to my theme folder and re-applyiong theme to site work, tho? 
21:16 <@preaction> not that i know of: "theme" is probably synonymous with "style", the style template has little to do with the page layout template. 
21:16 <@preaction> style templates go around the individual asset templates, so to speak
21:17 < streamlines> Ohh.. .I that explains why I didn't put it there to begin with :-). its not set as package or prototype. namespace is "Layout".  So what would make it the default template for all new page layouts? 
21:17 <@preaction> the idea being that the style template controls how the site looks, and the individual asset templates just use CSS to get their look-and-feel (and so are more for functionality than look)
21:17 <@preaction> nothing would. you could make it a prototype and then that layout would show up in the New Content menu
21:19 < streamlines> I get it. I'll try that. There were several issues I was having that cleared up (it seems) with upgrade from 7.3.13 to 7.3.22 then to 7.4.8
21:21 < streamlines> I'm confused by URLS, folders, and page layouts. Can a page layout appear within a page layout? I think that's when things broke--i tried that (because the url should appear below the url or parent layout). 
21:24 < streamlines> Seems like one has to keep a mental hierarchy of URLs matching hierarchy of corresponding  folders and/or hierarchy of page layouts. Add to the mix the fact that some urls wont show in a page layout, I feel overwhelmed.  
21:24 < streamlines> I mean, WG allows each of thos heirarchies to be independent of each other. The GUI user has to remember the relationships. 
21:25 < streamlines> sorry--just venting some frustrations now. I'm gald y'all are here to listen.
21:26 < streamlines> perlbot botsnack
21:26 < perlbot> I'm not your prank monkey
21:27 < streamlines> hmmm. 
21:30 <+MrHairgrease> streamlines: the urls do not have any hierachy
21:30 <+MrHairgrease> the one and only hierarchy is parent-child
21:30 <+MrHairgrease> as is shown in the assetmanager
21:31 <+MrHairgrease> siblings are ordered by their rank
21:31 <+MrHairgrease> the url of an asset has _nothing_ to do with its place in the asset hierarchy
21:31 <+MrHairgrease> you should interpret the url as a unique title
21:32 < streamlines> ahh. but to a web visitor, URLS do ---right? parent/child at least. 
21:32 <+MrHairgrease> why should web visitors bother with that?
21:33 <@preaction> you can use Edit Branch to "fix" your url heirarchy to keep it neat and clean and organized with your asset heirarchy
21:33 <+MrHairgrease> also a lot of cms-es have urls like index.php?pageId=12345
21:33 <@preaction> personally, i recommend it, i find it easier to manage
21:33 < streamlines> so I can arrange assets anyhow, assign URLs anyplace as I please---right?
21:33 <+MrHairgrease> where's the hiererchy in that
21:33 <+MrHairgrease> yes
21:33 <+MrHairgrease> but
21:33 <+MrHairgrease> keep in mind that urls are unique
21:33 <+MrHairgrease> which means only one asset can have url x
21:34 <+MrHairgrease> if you change that assets' url
21:34 <+MrHairgrease> to y
21:34 < streamlines> But thas' what All web visitors *know"*. products/nozzles should appear under /products because of a logical relationship. A content manager would want to preserver that perception. 
21:34 <+MrHairgrease> then url x is still tied to that asset
21:34 <@preaction> sure, but /products doesn't have to be anywhere near the Root asset in the heirarchy
21:34 <+MrHairgrease> b/c in an older revision of that asset the url is still x
21:35 <+MrHairgrease> also trashed assets that have not been purged yet still claim their original urls
21:35 < streamlines> right---but the Assets have that parent/child as you said. I want to present the URLS in logical heirarchy--so I have to mentally know the relationships between assets oand the URLS---OR go look--or use a GUI way ot organize them.
21:36 <+MrHairgrease> why?
21:36 < streamlines> its the *relationships* that the conternt manager needs to see. 
21:36 <+MrHairgrease> you see the hierarchy as you browse through the site as a content manager right?
21:36 <+MrHairgrease> anyway
21:36 <+MrHairgrease> if you leave the url field empty
21:37 <+MrHairgrease> webgui will use the menutitle prepended by the url of the parent
21:37 <+MrHairgrease> so there's your hierarchical url being generated autiomatically
21:37 < streamlines> As I brows I see heirarchy of assets. YES.
21:37 <+MrHairgrease> and as preaction said
21:38 <+MrHairgrease> you can make th url represent the plac
21:38 <+MrHairgrease> location* of the asset in the tree
21:38 <+MrHairgrease> using the edit branch functinality
21:40 < streamlines> but they (can) have random urls. How can I organize my assets by usrl---I'd use a folder, or page layouts--but you see those have their own urls.  After I use the edit branch, I still can't *see* where the URL of the branch goes, without inspection. 
21:41 < streamlines> Which inspection may/or may not be helpful, since (if the branch wasn't edited) the url found by such inspection may be entirely independent of a sibling!
21:41 < streamlines> I know I'm not really making much sense, and all this is perfectly clear to WG architects.
21:42 <+MrHairgrease> indeed =)
21:42 <+MrHairgrease> how you order your urls is entierly up to you
21:43 <+MrHairgrease> if you edit your assets and keep the url field empty
21:43 <+MrHairgrease> and you do that consquently
21:43 <+MrHairgrease> then all of your urls will exectly reflect the place in the asset tree
21:43 <+MrHairgrease> including the root node
21:43 <+MrHairgrease> since /root is the url of the root node
21:44 < streamlines> and if I  inherit a WG install from some disgruntled employee who didn't adhere to proper WG practice? 
21:45 < streamlines> Is there a was for me to see which assets map to which urls---since they're one to one--that should be easy to do--right? 
21:45 <+MrHairgrease> you can use edit branch
21:45 <+MrHairgrease> to 'fix' such a site
21:45 <+MrHairgrease> do this
21:45 < streamlines> no. that would destry the exisitg URLS and google rankings. 
21:46 < streamlines> people linking to my site would break. 
21:46 < streamlines> (not the people--their links) :-)
21:46 <+MrHairgrease> sure
21:46 <+MrHairgrease> but what do you want then?
21:47 <+MrHairgrease> you want to change your urls to a hierarchical system without changing them
21:47 <+MrHairgrease> I know the USA is the country of of unlimited possibilities
21:47 <+MrHairgrease> but I don't see this being possible even there =)
21:48 <+MrHairgrease> but then again, I'm Dutch
21:49 < streamlines> Sure. WG is incredibly powerful---but I want a GUI to see what my WEB users would see.  right now I have WebFUZZY. ;-) no offense to the noble developers. I still think WG iIS the most powerul CMS out there.
21:50 <+MrHairgrease> if you do not want your users to be able to edit urls (and thus effectively keeping the url input field empty hence creating hirarchical urls)
21:51 <@preaction> uhm. isn't the site itself what your web users would see?
21:51 <+MrHairgrease> you should put down their uilevel
21:51 < streamlines> BTW, we can write a webcrawler/bot to see what URLS are presented by httpd---then match them (simple one-to-one) with know assets. Sounds like a job for perl--maybe someone will need a GUI' like this enough to fund a feature.
21:51 <+MrHairgrease> so that they will not see the url field
21:51 <@preaction> otherwise if you want a list of asset title, lineage, and url, make an SQL report
21:52 <+MrHairgrease> the uilevel of url is 3
21:53 <+MrHairgrease> or just create a nav for descendants of root
21:53 <+MrHairgrease> will take a while to process though
21:54 < streamlines> OK. Thanks for listening though. the feedback is helpful. I'll go figure out how to do the SQL report. Now where did I put that MYSQL book? :-)
22:21 -!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #webgui
22:21 < streamlines> erm---MrHairgrease?
22:27 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
22:33 < streamlines> MrHairgrease earlier pointed out that the to use the ^Product(); macro with the optional 2nd parameter, I need to omit the space between the 2nd parameters and the comma. 
22:33 < streamlines> I'm using that parameter to specify a template for formatting the product's appearance, and my macro now pulls that template and some product data. 
22:34 < streamlines> What's missing is my little "add to cart" link--normally placed there with the ^Product(SKU); call. ITs not there when I use the template. Any leads?
22:35 < streamlines> IE "add to cart" link isn't there when I uset the optional template 2nd parameter. Ideas?
22:36 <@preaction> the add to cart link isn't in your template?
22:39 < streamlines> well, I don't know. I always find add to cart magically appears if I just do ^Product(SKU)  in a snippet. so....
22:40 <@preaction> of course, it's using the default template which includes that link
22:41 < streamlines> I grabbed a template from the regular 'Product' (is that a wobject?) thing...and ....oh. default template? a Macro uses a default template? sorry. I guess I should read the code of that macro?
22:43 < streamlines> I only know a little  non-OO perl--but I dont know how things work together in WG. would I find a reference to the appropriate template in Product.pm?
22:45 <@preaction> the product macro is different than the product wobject, the macro is the one that has the add to cart link
22:49 -!- cap10morgan_ [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-71.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has quit []
22:49 < streamlines> I noticed that. So how can I find the default template that the Product macro uses when I call it from a snippet? 
22:51 <@preaction> looks like the product itself can define a template id
22:53 < streamlines> OK. meantime as I was looking around, I got "<sitename> has sent an incorrect or unexpected message. Error Code: -12263. " Have you experience with that?
22:54 <@preaction> no
22:55 < streamlines> I've seen it several times recently.  That dialog pops up and  I can't access the asset in question. I'm admin. I googled and searched pb, but nothing. 
22:57 <@preaction> webgui.log?
22:58 < streamlines> hate to seem so stupid, but which one is the webgui log, please? I've got modperl.error.log modproxy.error.log . what filename, please?
23:01 <@preaction> its /data/wre/var/webgui.log
23:01 <@preaction> or /var/log/webgui.log, depending on whether or not you're using the wre
23:01 < streamlines> sorry, I'm actually red hat certified, but I just don't know what's a wobject or which is the webgui log. its a whole different world. I don't want to waste anyone time..thanks. I'm using the wre.
23:04 -!- elnino [n=ninow@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #webgui
23:05 < streamlines> big file. I'm coming up with the tail in a moment...thx. here: 
23:05 < streamlines> 2007/09/27 15:04:11 - ERROR - spectre.conf - POE::Kernel::_dispatch_event[1013] - WORKFLOW: Something bad happened on the return of TVD_p41X-uqbmETWSIN1ug. <HTML>
23:05 < streamlines> <HEAD><TITLE>An Error Occurred</TITLE></HEAD>
23:05 < streamlines> <BODY>
23:05 < streamlines> <H1>An Error Occurred</H1>
23:05 < streamlines> 200 OK
23:05 < streamlines> </BODY>
23:05 < streamlines> </HTML>
23:06 -!- elnino [n=ninow@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has left #webgui ["Leaving"]
23:06 <@preaction> usually not polite to paste into IRC channels
23:07 <@preaction> but something's wrong with your apache configuration
23:07 < streamlines> oh. sorry. I didn't know. IRC relative newbie.
23:07 <@preaction> perlbot paste
23:07 < perlbot> Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.
23:09 < streamlines> I see something else happening  very periodically...I'll paste as per perlbots suggestion
23:11 < streamlines> pasted.
23:11 < streamlines> http://sial.org/pbot/27755
23:11 < streamlines> sufficient.
23:11 < streamlines> ?
23:11 <@preaction> a thread about error 12263: http://boards.fool.co.uk/Message.asp?mid=10354751&sort=whole
23:12 < streamlines> thats being logged for each site I have. 
23:12 <@preaction> that's a bug, what version are you running?
23:12 < streamlines> thanks! I swear that wasn't there yesterday. :-)
23:12 < streamlines> 7.4.8
23:12 < streamlines> on RHEL4
23:16 <@preaction> it wasn't there yesterday, i assume you updated today?
23:17 <@preaction> http://webgui.org/bugs <- post the contents of your paste there, it's a relatively simple fix
23:19 < streamlines> you mean the error 12263 or the regular calendarupdatefeeds thing?
23:23 <@preaction> the calendarUpdateFeeds on
23:23 <@preaction> 12263 is a misconfiguration in SSL for your browser, or your server
23:25 -!- elnino_ [n=ninow@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #webgui
23:25 -!- elnino_ [n=ninow@user-38q49cv.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Client Quit]
23:27 < streamlines> 'k. will do. 
23:28 < streamlines> thanks very much. 
23:28 < xootom> can anyone tell me how passive profiling works, can i say look at the pages a user has viewed somehow?
23:29 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-3.adsl.indra.com] has joined #webgui
23:29 < streamlines> and thanks for the gentle education re: ettiquette posting on IRC. truly grateful :-)
23:38 <@preaction> xootom, i believe it has something to do with metadata. you might have to poke around and find out, as i can't find any docs on it
23:38 < streamlines> but just a sec--there isn't any SSL happening when I get my error 12263. the assets aren't behind SSL--never been flagged such. There's no SSL transaction happening (That I know of) for there to be a server or browser issue. Plus, there's more:: 
23:39 <@preaction> that's a Firefox error code, i assume? any google ads? anything on the page at all that might somehow use an SSL connection?
23:40 < streamlines> Few days ago, suddenly, just ONE of my WG sites (on same server) quit working. Any attempt to load it gave Fatal Internal Error (or very similar) to browser. I tore my hair out for two days---and found some problems with my system. 
23:40 <@preaction> unrelated most likely
23:41 < streamlines> OK, but it started with the 12263. Then it went downhill to Fatal Internal Error.
23:41 < streamlines> But only one site was doing it. 
23:41 <@preaction> what was the fatal internal error about?
23:41 <@preaction> xootom: http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/content-profiling
23:42 < xootom> ah thanks
23:42 <@preaction> it looks like a way to get a different kind of aggregate stats for your site
23:42 < streamlines> After many revamps and recompiles and learning that wth WRE perl was co-existing badly with my /usr/bin/perl, the issue went away. 
23:43 <@preaction> like putting "Section: Store" on the store portion of your site and "Section: Articles" and seeing how many users are there for the store or there for the articles
23:44 < streamlines> The fatal internal error may have been related a mysql hack attempt. I had reason to think so---don't reaclly why jsut now--and I had to reset perms on mysql dirs, my.cnf, and mysql.sock
23:45 <@preaction> anybody have any clue as to what this is? Show content based upon criteria
23:45 <@preaction> The Wobject Proxy allows you to select content based upon criteria
23:45 < streamlines> I was frustrated and didn't always act systematically---at the time i didn't know where all WG logfiles are....you enlightened me today RE: webgui.conf. I might have looked there first. 
23:45 <@preaction> are you using WRE 0.8 alpha?
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23:46 < streamlines> had I known. I had read thru installation sectino (I thought there was a troubleshooting one too) but references to these flies are always vague if you haven't  been around webgui for a while:
23:46 < streamlines> eg
23:46 < streamlines> EG: I found dozens of references to the webgui config fiile. what the heck is it called? 
23:47 <@preaction> it's in /data/WebGUI/etc, and it usually has the same name as your website plus .conf
23:47 < streamlines> hunted and and found webgui.conf.original---appaetly not webgui.config file
23:47 < streamlines> see that's what's not obvious from the avail documentation.
23:48 < streamlines> I once asked for a main WG archecteure doc, but one wasn't avail then.
23:49 < streamlines> THanks--yes I did realize that sitename.conf was what was to be considered the webgui config file.  
23:49 <@preaction> http://wiki.webgui.org <- feel free to help add / fix the free documentation
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23:57 < streamlines> Now, don't get me wrong---I used to markup EE phd theses for a living and I don't like my time wasted--I'm not trying to blow a trumpet--I can't stand people that do. But I can't help but being frustrated by the absence of real information.  I think PB should package WG and sell it. I feel like I own a Ferrari, but can't find the car keys. Again, I just want an open, friendly  discussion....
23:57 < streamlines> ...This is the right place, right? Anyone? 
23:58 <@preaction> i feel there's more to be gained by WebGUI remaining F/OSS software than by WebGUI becoming commercial
23:59 <@preaction> being F/OSS, it's in the hands of the users how they want to use it. they aren't only stuck in how plainblack wants it to be used
23:59 <@rizen> there are 4 books on the subject of webgui, and a fifth one due out next week
23:59 <@rizen> have you read even one of them?
--- Day changed Fri Sep 28 2007
00:00 < streamlines> yes, I have one. I saw a new one release today. I read all the preview.
00:00 <@rizen> there are also workshops in two weeks that tell you exactly how to do the kinds of things you've been asking on here today, have you registered for them?
00:00 < streamlines> can't . I'll be out of the US courting new clients.
00:01 < streamlines> preaction: I know why you feel that way.
00:03 < streamlines> IMHO, I think its an organizational groupthink thing. If WG really is the most powerful CMS on the planet---it didn't get there because the users chose perl, or html:template, or anything. who made those calls?
00:03 <@preaction> there's also the point that Perl is almost impossible to "lock-down" in any appreciable manner, being an interpreted language. why forbid something you can't actually control?
00:04 < streamlines> PB--right?
00:04 < streamlines> I don't understand what you said about perl. you mean security?
00:04 <@preaction> RedHat has Fedora. Canonical has Ubuntu. Mozilla has Firefox. these are not small names
00:04 <@preaction> yes, if you want a closed-source WebGUI, you can't use an interpreted language
00:05 <@preaction> it's like being surprised you get robbed when you leave your front door wide open
00:05 < streamlines> Oh I see. hmmmm.
00:05 < streamlines> duh. 
00:06 <@preaction> hell, Novell has SUSE now, they made an acquisition of a major linux distribution and continue to distribute it F/OSS
00:07 <@preaction> i believe that JT made a good article on the business model of a company that develops FOSS software, http://plainblack.com/tbb
00:07 < streamlines> What I want is not closed source.  what's the PB parallel to RHEL (eg), and the flagship products of these mega-giants? The support? 
00:08 <@preaction> basically
00:08 < streamlines> I really don't care about who sells what, unser what business model. End user-s don't run the company---but
00:09 <@preaction> the support, hosting, development, and documentation that plainblack offers, while simultaneously developing, maintaining, and adding-to the areas the community uses for free documentation
00:09 < streamlines> "typo: under what business...."
00:09 <@preaction> "end-users don't run the company"? i'd think that what your users want, you'd want to provide, before somebody else does
00:09 <@rizen> preaction is right. we do package and sell webgui, we just don't put it in a box
00:10 <@rizen> we put up hosting servers
00:10 <@rizen> sell support, books, training
00:10 <@preaction> (in webgui, we have the RFE boards and the karma system for getting them bumped to the top of the list, and a promise to implement X number of them each minor version)
00:11 <@rizen> streamlines, i've read back on your comments today, and i think one thing that you don't get...or maybe you do now but you didn't at the beginning of the day is that the webgui file system is entirely virtual
00:11 < streamlines> That's true RE: end users to be sure. But is the primary revenue Service or Product?
00:11 <@rizen> there's no magic to the folders
00:11 <@rizen> they are just folders
00:11 <@rizen> so moving stuff around in them won't do anything for you
00:11 <@rizen> except move them around
00:11 <@preaction> there is no actual revenue from the Product, but the Product sells the Service
00:12 < streamlines> I know I'm missing more that half of webgui. Assume I'm the CIO of ---oh , I don;'t know---some mega corporation. 
00:12 < streamlines> Then ...
00:12 <@preaction> and, through either luck or good business sense (imho almost interchangable), WebGUI sells Plainblack, which is good for WebGUI
00:13 < streamlines> assume I've been given 1 week and 2 employees to eval the viability of a vendor/product using open standards.
00:14 < streamlines> I once read a paper of a guy who recommended WG as a CMS for some university.. you know that one? 
00:14 < streamlines> it was his MAster's degree work.
00:15 < streamlines> took him several months of course. 
00:15 <@preaction> nope, haven't come across that one
00:15 < streamlines> I have it downloaded somplace. I'll post sometime. 
00:15 < streamlines> But back to the CIO--this Masters candidate had MONTS of time on his hands.
00:15 <@preaction> why does this work: DocumentRoot /data/domains/mysite/public RewriteRule ^/extras/ - [L] <- there's no extras directory in public, it's supposed to be an alias? is it an alias in the modproxy httpd.conf?
00:17 <@preaction> 1 week is probably not enough time to make an informed decision about a product, given that you start with a list of products and no information about them
00:17 <@rizen> if you're a cio of a major corp and you have 2 employees to work on the project then you'd also have some money to spend. in order i'd recommend doing it this way:
00:17 <@rizen> a) host it with plain black initially, move it in house if needs be later (that way you don't have to muck with installs)
00:18 <@rizen> b) hire PB or some other firm to do the design for you so you don't have to learn templates instantly, cuz it takes some time to do that
00:18 <@rizen> c) get some sort of training from PB or some other firm
00:18 <@rizen> d) have your 2 employees build out the site after training
00:18 <@rizen> e) you'll have a live site in a week
00:19 <@preaction> those Months were probably spent by him actually testing the product himself, admittedly WebGUI has some ground to gain in the realm of good press, but that's what your employees will be using
00:19 < streamlines> A CIO---possible fresh from his own Master's program--- will encounter terms like SPECTRE, (nevermind the definition I saw in code someplace), wobject, magic, etc. etc. and not clear definitions of what  these do --or why. Isn't that the market you want---Professional people who care about the initial availabilit, reliability , security, and manageability  of a tool. 
00:19 < streamlines> ?
00:19 <@rizen> oh, and as far as evaluation goes, contact sales. they'll be happy to give you a demonstration of how webgui works
00:20 <@preaction> and since what's good for WebGUI is good for PB, plainblack has begun campaigns for good press
00:21 <@preaction> i guess i don't understand your concern: WebGUI is and will continue to be the best product that the community can make it. Plain Black Corp. will continue to pump time (which is money) into WebGUI because what's good for WebGUI is good for Plain Black Corp.
00:21 < streamlines> My last client spent over $US20,000 on proprietary software that worked perfectly in the demo. Today, that 20k is lost becuse:
00:22 < streamlines> the actual thing didn't work like in the demo
00:22 < streamlines> and they couln't modify it. 
00:22 <@preaction> http://demo.plainblack.com <- the latest version of webgui, always available for instant trial
00:22 -!- rizen is now known as rizen_is_away
00:22 <@preaction> er... also demo.webgui.org
00:23 < streamlines> The CDs are great coasters tho. I gues I'm saying--to an experience CIO--a demo doesn't mean squat. I was as the Win95 uveiling. :-)
00:23 < streamlines> ie. not the guy fresh from his Master's degree--who doesn;t get paid all that much anyway. 
00:24 < streamlines> I'm saying that real revenue comes from the service, although the product synergistically drives some of that----
00:25 <@preaction> you seem to be talking about Reputation
00:25 < streamlines> Not really....Big decision makers (read spenders)  will need a way to measure/guage the caliber of Service they'll get--thaty where they have to explaiun why they spent what they did to someone else./ 
00:26 < streamlines> And I'm further saying that the quality of the product doesn't give an indication of the service---what 's the closes thing that migh? 
00:27 <@preaction> of course, the company's reputation (either self-espoused or otherwise) is what give them their opinion of the company. the company ends up advertising itself, success stories and the like
00:27 < streamlines> the closes thing that could possibly tell them what kind of service they can expectis:
00:28 < streamlines> documentation. Sure, you can wait for the reputation to build---or you can create your own "demo" of your service. You  decide how. But the wikis and mailing lists don't tell me what PB will dleiver for my $$.
00:28 < streamlines> The workshops I admit are good for that tho. 
00:32 <@preaction> the WUC itself is a measure of our devotion to support and training, this year's is (i'm told) going to be the best ever (this is my first WUC)
00:34 < streamlines> The $20,000 software was purchased on Reputation. I'd love to throw 20k at PB--even if not my own--on behalf of my clients.  I believe in the product, but I also think that allowing anyone  do your "service demo"  (your primary revenue thing) is like drifting at sea without anchor or sail. Please don't be offended---its just an simple little opinion. I'll shut up now. Thak you very much for...
00:34 < streamlines> ...setting me straight on several issues. 
00:34 <@preaction> though i notice that there are WebGUI Success Stories, there are no Plain Black Success Stories
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00:35 < dj_perl_> Hello Haarg,
00:35 <@preaction> i do believe a lot of our adoption happens in a sort of word-of-mouth: a hobbyist tries webgui for his/her own site, ends up liking it a lot, question comes up in a meeting, they suggest WebGUI, and things start rolling from there
00:35 < streamlines> Anyone can put up a wiki. What can PB do for me? how do I measure that? just  reputation? 
00:35 < streamlines> wait--sorry I just saw your last post....
00:36 <@preaction> Plain Black does WebGUI hosting, support, development, or really anything WebGUI-related you need. as much or as little as you need.
00:36 <@preaction> start out with training perhaps, which also happens to be a demo of the system
00:38 < dj_perl_> It would be great if WRE installed right out of the box. Right now, it doesn't.
00:38 < streamlines> But REAL money isn't to be had from the hobbyists (take me, for example). Ah, yes...I should start out with training. That I hadn't thought of ---it wasn't present and ready in my mind. I've paid RedHAt for training, for example. I had a personal instructor! Yes, I should consider that. 
00:39 <@preaction> from the plainblack.com/training/on-site -> 1,600 per day. you could have 15 days of training (3 weeks) before you had to pay more than just buying the software for the other system
00:39 <@preaction> 15 days being entirely unnecessary, i believe Kristi and/or Steve usually end up only spending 2-3 days for a complete walkthrough of every feature of the system (short of how to write Perl, Javascript, SQL, etc...)
00:40 < streamlines> I should've done that. 
00:40 <@preaction> dj_perl_, what OS and version? what WRE version? building or pre-built?
00:40 <@preaction> eh, the idea for that just came to me
00:40 < dj_perl_> WRE 0.7.2, OSX Intel 10.4.2
00:41 <@preaction> WRE 0.7 doesn't work on OSX Intel
00:41 <@preaction> i know JT tried, and i think one or two of us plainblack people got it working, but i never did even with their help
00:41 < streamlines> PB's job is to create the value of that before I spend the $$. You have to make me WANT to. 
00:41 <@preaction> the latest Alpha of 0.8 works almost out-of-the-box on OSX Intel
00:42 < dj_perl_> Argh!! Wish someone'd told me that. I've spent the last 2 days trying to get it to work.
00:42 < dj_perl_> Thanks, I'll get 0.8 alpha
00:42 <@preaction> streamlines, that's what WebGUI is supposed to do. that's why it's free. you can try a demo, you can install on a dev box using free documentation and live community help (right here)
00:42 <@preaction> dj_perl_, and i'll be here for the hangups, i believe there are two of them, but i don't remember them at all
00:43 < dj_perl_> what do you mean by hangups?
00:43 < dj_perl_> install hitches?
00:43 <@preaction> dj_perl_, two completely undocumented steps that you need to do
00:44 <@preaction> i know one is create the "webgui" user, it's documented but you have to find the right way to do it on OSX. i ended up downloading a useradd script from somewhere
00:44 < dj_perl_> ok. i might as well check those into the docs, while i'm on it.
00:44 <@preaction> netinfo is annoying as all hell, too... but whatevz
00:44 < dj_perl_> i downloaded the useradd script also.
00:44 <@preaction> must be i just don't understand
00:44 <@preaction> i think then it's all pretty straightforward. there's a prebuilt for OSX intel 10.4
00:45 <@preaction> alpha3 i believe, it's on the dev forum
00:49 < streamlines> Hey thanks preaction and rizen for putting up with me. must grab dinner now. Really appreciate you humoring me. You folks really are good-natured. Hope we meet someday.  :-)
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01:15 <@rizen_is_away> dj_perl_
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01:15 < dj_perl_> yes?
01:15 <@rizen> i can help you with the couple of undocumented things you have to do
01:15 <@rizen> they are things we figured out after we put out the alpha
01:16 <@rizen> first: download from here http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds/wre/
01:16 <@rizen> 2) do the install per the instructions provided in the distro
01:16 <@rizen> 3) go into /data/wre/etc/modperl.conf
01:17 <@rizen> and comment out these two lines
01:17 <@rizen> #PerlRequire /data/wre/etc/modperl.pl
01:17 <@rizen> #PerlCleanupHandler Apache2::SizeLimit
01:18 <@rizen> 4) create /data/wre/prereqs/lib/GraphicsMagick-1.1.7/config/magic.mgk
01:18 <@rizen> with this in it:
01:18 <@rizen> <?xml version="1.0"?>
01:18 <@rizen>   <magicmap>
01:18 <@rizen>   </magicmap>
01:18 <@rizen> 5) edit your webgui config to make your uploadsPath point to your actual uploads directory
01:19 <@rizen> due to a bug it points to /data/WebGUI/www/uploads
01:19 <@rizen> that's it
01:19 <@rizen> other than that it works out of the box
01:19 <@rizen> the final version has those  problems all fixed
01:19 < dj_perl_> Ok, thanks. I'll let you know how it goes as soon as the download finishes.
01:19 < dj_perl_> Alright, then I won't document these additional steps.
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16:12 <+MrHairgrease> I have a whole lot of workflow instances that try to get mail for non existing CS-es.
16:12 <+MrHairgrease> Obviously they error
16:13 <+MrHairgrease> can I remove them by simply ditching all instances from the WorkflowInstance table with status = 'error' ?
16:13 <+MrHairgrease> Or do I have to clean up somewhere else too?
16:16 <@rizen> you can ditch them from the workflow instance table
16:17 <+MrHairgrease> ok
16:17 <+MrHairgrease> thanks
16:17 <@rizen> but you'll also need to get rid of them in the WorkflowSchedule table
16:17 <+MrHairgrease> other question
16:17 <+MrHairgrease> ah
16:17 <@rizen> so they don't get created again
16:17 <+MrHairgrease> ok
16:17 <+MrHairgrease> also
16:17 <+MrHairgrease> if I return WAITING from an activity
16:18 <+MrHairgrease> that activity is executed again in the next run?
16:18 <@rizen> yup
16:18 <+MrHairgrease> and the interval between runs is defined in spectre.conf right
16:18 <@rizen> forever, until you return complete
16:18 <@rizen> yup
16:18 <+MrHairgrease> ok
16:18 <+MrHairgrease> thanks a lot
16:18 <@rizen> np
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17:20 < knowmad> morning folks (those in the US anyhow). does the FormParam macro only read POST params or can it do GET as well?
17:21 <@rizen> either
17:21 < dionak> is this doc for this macro correct? http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/form-parameter-macro
17:22 <@rizen> other than the sql report part yes
17:22 <@rizen> fixing that
17:23 < knowmad> can you add that it handles both GET and POST params?
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17:23 <+MrHairgrease> Joeri!
17:23 < dapperedodo> Hi
17:24 <+MrHairgrease> biertje?
17:25 < dionak> i'm trying to pull a specific param off the url to use in another macro. how do i go about doing that? 
17:26 < dionak> i'm looking at source but i just don't grok it
17:27 <@rizen> ^OtherMacro(^FormParam(phoneNumber););
17:28 < dionak> thanks
17:28 < knowmad> is the macro you are calling configured in the .conf file?
17:29 < dionak> yes
17:29 < dionak> so this macro really pulls data from url by processing the submitted form. i see
17:49 < dionak> can a macro live in a snippet?
17:49 < dionak> if i tell the snippet to process as a template?
17:49 <+MrHairgrease> yes it can
17:50 <+MrHairgrease> and you do not have to process it as a template to do that
17:50 <+MrHairgrease> b/c macro != tmpl_var
17:50 < dionak> ok, cool. thanks. 
17:51 < dionak> out of curiosity, are macros always processed?
17:51 <+MrHairgrease> afaik yes
17:51 <+MrHairgrease> but not in profile fields
17:52 <+MrHairgrease> i think...
17:52 <@rizen> macros are implemented as an output filter in webgui
17:52 <@rizen> it's the last thing that happens before the content is returned to the browser
17:52 < dionak> ok. that makes sense
17:54 < knowmad> along these lines why is there the limitation on embedding macros that return commas or double-quotes? seems like there could be a way to escape that data so that embedding macros worked more cleanly without those caveats
17:55 < knowmad> on another topic, will the SQLForm in 7.4 ever get back the ability to do a single-select list? in 7.3 I could set a fieldtype as selectList and set the height to 1 and it would generate a drop-down select. in 7.4 it is always generating a multi-select field.
17:56 < dionak> as i recall, there's a select list and a select box
17:56 < knowmad> oh, maybe they've been separated out in 7.4
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18:05 <@rizen> i know nothing about sql form
18:05 <@rizen> as far as macro parsing, you're welcome to try to write a better parser.  a couple people on my staff are attempting to do it. it's not an easy task.
18:06 <+MrHairgrease> Koen!
18:06 <+MrHairgrease> biertje?
18:06 <+MrHairgrease> knowmad: if you want to use selectlists with one option
18:06 <+MrHairgrease> use the selectbox
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18:10 <@rizen> knowmad...i don't mean to sound discouraging about writing a macro parser
18:10 <@rizen> that was supposed to be an invitation, but it didn't come out that way
18:11 <@rizen> i'd love to see a macro processor written in Parse::RecDecent
18:11 <@rizen> or even a better regex parser
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18:28 < knowmad> MrHairgrease: thanks for the input
18:32 <+MrHairgrease> rizen
18:32 <+MrHairgrease> a File form plugin
18:32 <+MrHairgrease> the viewValue method returns a file icon plus the filename
18:32 <@rizen> MrHairgrease: there's something on the wing
18:32 <@rizen> some thing
18:33 <+MrHairgrease> but it is not clickable and no url to the file.
18:33 <+MrHairgrease> is that a bug?
18:33 <+MrHairgrease> sorry for the garbled crap =)
18:33 <@rizen> what garbled crap?
18:33 <@rizen> honestly, i've never even looked at that code so i can't say for sure
18:34 <@rizen> but i think that the viewValue was designed for the profiling system
18:34 <+MrHairgrease> what happens is this
18:34 <@rizen> it's certainly not very useful the way it is as you describe it
18:34 < knowmad> rizen: glad to hear that others are working on a new processor; unfortunately, i don't have enough tuits to do myself
18:34 <+MrHairgrease> a person can upload a file into his or her profile
18:34 <@rizen> but...i'm not sure that file should even be allowed to be attached to profile fields
18:34 <+MrHairgrease> but you are never able to download it when vieing the profile
18:34 <+MrHairgrease> why not?
18:35 <@rizen> spammers
18:35 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
18:35 <@rizen> create an account on someone's webgui server
18:35 <@rizen> upload a file or files
18:35 <+MrHairgrease> but you could also think of resume
18:35 <@rizen> now you can use their bandwidth
18:35 <+MrHairgrease> i see
18:35 <@rizen> go ahead and change it
18:35 <+MrHairgrease> ok
18:35 <+MrHairgrease> when?
18:36 <+MrHairgrease> now
18:36 <+MrHairgrease> or in 7.5
18:36 <@rizen> now is fine
18:37 <@rizen> tuits?
18:37 <@rizen> what's a tuit knowmad?
18:37 <+MrHairgrease> tuits?
18:37 < knowmad> http://www.passco.com/tuit.htm
18:37 <+MrHairgrease> oh
18:37 <+MrHairgrease> i think he means cojones =)
18:38 <@rizen> i c
18:38 < knowmad> cojones ?
18:38 <@rizen> i keep getting tuits and losing them
18:38 < knowmad> check for holes in your pockets
18:39 <@rizen> i'm a tuit black hole in the universe
18:40 <@rizen> or perhaps i'm a tuit furnace. maybe i get them and burn them up.
18:40 < knowmad> i've heard about people like you ;)
18:41 <@rizen> unfortunately i just can't seem to hire enough staff to take my day to day responsibilities so that i can focus on getting a round tuit
18:41 <@rizen> =)
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19:25 < dionak> has the svn branch occurred yet?
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19:59 < dionak> i'm writing a macro to query a linked database. i just want to run the logic by someone more familiar to lessen the server restarts (users are on the server). I'm using WebGUI::DatabaseLink in the macro. Then I assign $dbLink = WebGUI::DatabaseLink($session, 'dbLinkId'), using the Link id from the admin. 
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20:00 < dionak> i then assign $db = $dbLink->db and call $db->quickArray() with my sql. am i missing anything?
20:11 <@rizen> dionak: no, next week
20:12 <@rizen> that should work
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20:14 < dionak> cool. thanks. :)
20:24 < cap10morgan> i have some templates for a custom asset that use a specific namespace, but whenever i edit them, the new revision's namespace is set to "Page"
20:25 < cap10morgan> and that's what it shows in the metadata tab too
20:25 < cap10morgan> but the db says "AssetReport" as it should in template.namespace
20:25 < cap10morgan> any idea where that value is coming from?
20:27 < dionak> hm. i'm getting the error "cannot locate object method quickArray via package WebGUI::DatabaseLink". i'm definitely missing something.
20:28 < dionak> like the WebGUI::SQL object
20:29 < dionak> but db() should be returning that. 
20:33 <@rizen> dionak: perhaps your database link isn't valid
20:34 <@rizen> cap: i think the default namespace is "Page" when a namespace isn't set
20:34 <@rizen> so likely somewhere you aren't setting the namespace
20:34 <@rizen> or you're setting it to empty/null
20:34 < cap10morgan> well, i'm setting it everywhere i can see to set it
20:34 < cap10morgan> such as getEditForm in AssetReport.pm
20:35 < cap10morgan> and i can't change it for these templates
20:36 <@rizen> definition?
20:36 <@rizen> i don't know how to help you without looking at the code, and right now i'm busy with the wre so i can't take time to look over your code
20:36 <@rizen> sorry
20:40 < cap10morgan> ah, yep. adding it to the definition did the trick. thanks rizen.
20:41 <@rizen> np
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21:11 < dionak> rizen: that was it. thanks!
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22:25 < dionak> going back to an earlier conversation from today, we've noticed the selectBox option is missing from the sqlform. wondering if this was intentional? rizen, i remember your disclaimer earlier re: sqlform. 
22:25 < dionak> this is on 7.4.8 stable
22:29 < dionak> hm, it seems selectBox is just no longer in the definition for SQLForm.pm
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22:31 < dionak> adding a bug report
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23:56 < wgGuest06> Someone around to help me out?
23:56 <@preaction> perlbot ask
23:56 < perlbot> Ask forth your question to the all-knowing channel and we shall bestow upon you the answer of correctitude.
23:56 < wgGuest06> Can you tell me the server that i should have the DNS point to?
23:57 <@preaction> huh?
23:57 < wgGuest06> We're switching from our current webhosting to plainblack today
23:57 < wgGuest06> and I don't know the DNS server that I should have the domain point to
23:57 <@preaction> i can help you, but in the future plainblack support is at http://plainblack.com/support
23:57 <@preaction> are you using our DNS or your own?
23:57 <@preaction> what's the domain name you were given? the webXXX.plainblack.net one?
23:58 < wgGuest06> Yeah
23:58 < wgGuest06> webxxx
23:58 <@preaction> but what?
23:58 < wgGuest06> oh
23:58 < wgGuest06> web358.plainblack.net
23:58 <@preaction> without that i can't find what server you're being hosted on
23:58 <@preaction> now, are you hosting your own DNS server or are you using ours?
--- Day changed Sat Sep 29 2007
00:00 <@preaction> plainblack's DNS is "cold.plainblack.com", backup is "frozen.plainblack.com". the server you're being hosted on is "frost.plainblack.com" and has an IP address of "207.44.136.120"
00:00 < wgGuest06> um
00:00 <@preaction> so if you're hosting your own DNS, you need to have it point your domain name to that last IP. otherwise you need to update your A record to point to our DNS servers
00:00 < wgGuest06> well
00:01 < wgGuest06> we currently pay for the 50 dollar a month plan....
00:01 <@rizen> wgGuest06
00:01 < wgGuest06> I sort of forget if that included your hosting
00:01 <@rizen> where will you be updating this "DNS" you speak of
00:01 <@preaction> most likely if you were running your own DNS, you'd know. so tell your domain registrar that your DNS servers are now cold and frozen
00:01 <@rizen> where are you making the settings changes
00:01 < wgGuest06> ah, alright
00:01 <@rizen> if you can answer that, i can tell you for sure whether you're using our dns or not
00:02 < wgGuest06> i'm going to do it through networksolutions.com
00:02 <@rizen> and our DNS hosting is included in the price of all hosting packages
00:02 <@rizen> ok...yeah, then you're using our dns
00:02 <@rizen> so in the NetSol page put in cod.plainblack.com
00:02 <@rizen> and frozen.plainblack.com
00:02 <@rizen> cold.plainblack.com
00:02 <@rizen> not cod
00:02 <@rizen> sorry
00:04 < wgGuest06> alright
00:04 < wgGuest06> once i point it to that itll be all set?
00:06 <@preaction> global DNS like that takes time to propagate, but yes
00:06 < wgGuest06> yeah, we're prepared for a 2 day downtime
00:06 <@preaction> shouldn't take more than 24 hours, and the old site will still be "active" until it's changed
00:07 < wgGuest06> alright, great
00:07 < wgGuest06> thanks a lot.
00:08 < wgGuest06> take care
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16:28 < wgGuest57> Is this in a standard IRC network so I can use a regular IRC client?  If so, what's the IRC network and channel name?
16:30 < nuba> wgGuest57: server irc.freenode.net channel #webgui
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16:35 < wgGuest57> Thanks.  I already use freenode.
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