--- Log opened Wed Aug 01 00:00:33 2007
00:20 < xootom> i remember that copying an asset doesn't also copy its children, is there any way of doing so? (is that the intended copy behaviour or a limitation of wg?) 
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12:18 < Radix-europe> Is there still a developers site for webgui somewhere?  Where is that located now?
12:18 < Radix-europe> I recall there being a site with api documentation and the like somewhere
12:21 < Radix-europe> Ahh.. API in the wiki has the link
13:01 < xootom> hi radix, i got the addusers script passing through using the pass thru, it now executes fine but nothing seems to happen when i try adding users, no error message (unless I omit username etc). Have you tried it with 7.4.0 yourself?
13:36 < Radix-europe> hmm.. not with 7.4 no
13:36 < Radix-europe> try calling it from the command line
13:36 < Radix-europe> see if it spits out any errors
13:37 < Radix-europe> it should work with the 7.4 api fine (well.. unless someone changed something in the api that broke it! ;)
13:39 < Radix-europe> i remember being told that the api is fixed for two years at last years WUC tho :)
14:43 < xootom> ahh thanks that's working now :) when running from command line could see a path error on the config
14:44 < xootom> is it possible to assign the user to a group>
15:07 < Radix-europe> it is, but not using that code I'm afraid
15:08 < Radix-europe> We do our groups using sql lookups to determine membership, so I never needed it when I wrote that code
15:08 < Radix-europe> you could probably adapt the code from the userimport script tho
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15:57 < xootom> ok thanks
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16:06 < SDuensin> Good morning.
16:06 <+MrHairgrease> hi
16:19 <@rizen> thank you radix
16:25 < Radix-europe> ?
16:25 <@rizen> for adding keywords to a bunch of wiki stuff
16:25 < Radix-europe> Ahh.. I saw the keywords there and thought.. cool.. might add a few :)
16:26 < Radix-europe> found a duplicate developers guide too so wiped one of them and kept the newer one
16:26 <@rizen> hopefully everybody else does the same...i think it will make it easier for people to find stuff
16:26 <@rizen> cool
16:26 < Radix-europe> yup, definitely
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16:26 < Radix-europe> when I say wiped I mean blanked it out.. I can't actually delete it
16:27 <@rizen> oh, do you know the url so i can do it?
16:27 <@rizen> nevermind
16:27 <@rizen> found it
16:27 < Radix-europe> yeah, on top of the wiki list
16:27 < Radix-europe> the tags are pretty cool :)
16:28 < Radix-europe> only thing I realised while doing it is that we want to almost standardise on the keywords used in some ways
16:28 <@rizen> that's the problem with all tagging systems
16:29 < Radix-europe> true
16:29 <@rizen> there is a method in the api to merge two tags into one
16:29 <@rizen> buut i couldn't figure out a clean way of exposing that to the UI
16:29 < Radix-europe> I was using the wiki a bit today looking up how to do things anyway, so just added the keywords while doing so :)
16:29 <@rizen> so for now, it will just have to be a command line script or something
16:30 <@rizen> i'm glad to know someone uses it
16:30 <@rizen> i was afraid nobody was
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16:30 < Radix-europe> I like your webgui lite idea btw
16:30 < Radix-europe> but couldn't find anywhere to post comments on it :)
16:31 < Radix-europe> I was thinking about how packages and themes are done at the moment will need to be simplified - and would be nice if it was
16:32 < Radix-europe> atm there's quite a few steps to import a theme like zenlike, etc.. would be nice to make it automatic somehow.. ie. select theme and voila.. applied to every page, navigation working, etc
16:32 <@rizen> there i've enabled comments
16:32 <@rizen> sorry, just didn't realize i hadn't before
16:32 < Radix-europe> np
16:33 <@rizen> that sort of concept only works on small sites
16:33 <@rizen> on large sites you could really **** someone by automatically and indescriminently applying a theme to every page
16:33 < Radix-europe> yeah, but that's what you're aiming at with webgui lite, no? :)
16:33 < Radix-europe> I know :)
16:33 <@rizen> yeah, but that doesn't mean that all of webgui should function to serve the small guy
16:34 <@rizen> it has to be a balance, and that balance is usually going to be applied using switches
16:34 <@rizen> outside of the reach of the small guy
16:34 <@rizen> make decisions for them
16:34 < Radix-europe> Sure.. perhaps a theme wizard that looks for themes in /styles or something like that and then will apply them if they select it
16:34 <@rizen> my thought on that was actually to make it a step in the site starter
16:35 <@rizen> upload a theme and it will be automatically applied
16:35 < Radix-europe> sounds good
16:36 <@rizen> anyway...i'm glad to hear someone is actually reading the blog too, i thought it might only be a couple of people, but lately i've heard from many people who are reading it
16:36 < Radix-europe> I read it all :)
16:36  * MrHairgrease has nothing better to do either =)
16:37 < Radix-europe> hehe
16:38 <@rizen> well now that comments are enabled, i hope to see you guys not only reading, but throwing out feedback
16:40 < Radix-europe> Well if I come up with any other ideas I will :)
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17:07 < AMH_henry> I was looking through the 7.4.0 source code when I saw that WebGUI::AssetClipboard::www_copy is modified to allow duplication of an asset including its children. What I cannot find is where in the UI this feature is enabled. Any ideas?
17:10 <@rizen> it's when you click on the copy button
17:10 < AMH_henry> yes, but it's looking for with as form parameter. I don't see that one posted anywhere
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17:19 <@rizen> ?func=copy;with=children
17:22 < Radix-europe> Speaking of 7.4 - just checked out the new site starter - seems pretty good, though it seems to create the default pages regardless - is this intentional or going to be fixed later?
17:22 <@rizen> it has to create the default pages...they have lots of good information on them like how to log in
17:22 <@rizen> and the introductory movie
17:23 <@rizen> and where to go to get more information
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17:23 < Radix-europe> Hmm.. I don't necessarily agree
17:24 < Radix-europe> Would be nice to have an option for that
17:24 <@rizen> this is the part where i get to tell you that i have scorn for 7 generations of your family and it doesn't matter what you think
17:24 < Radix-europe> For a new user - offer them a tutorial or something perhaps, but an user who's already used webgui before the first thing they will have to do is go and delete the pages etc
17:25 <@rizen> yeah, but those experienced users will at least know how to do that
17:25 <@rizen> stop whining you whiny whiner
17:25 < Radix-europe> Sure, but surely there should be an option to turn it off or not have it if you don't want it ;)
17:25 <@rizen> this is the part where i get to tell you that i'm not an rfe list
17:26 < elnino> time for a topic change?  =)
17:26 < Radix-europe> hehe.. sounds like it ;)
17:26 <@rizen> no, i'm just having fun with radix
17:26 < elnino> ok. you maay continue. =)
17:26 <@rizen> or maybe at the expense of radix
17:26 < Radix-europe> I'm just giving my 2c :)
17:27 <@rizen> and i'm just throwing hate back in your face
17:27 <@rizen> so i think we're even
17:27 <@rizen> =)
17:27 < Radix-europe> uhuh
17:27 <@rizen> ok, let me actually defend my position in a civilized manner rather than just throwing out fud
17:27 < AMH_henry> @rizen: thanx. link works great
17:28 <+crythias> hey. I think we should make webgui be php
17:28 <+crythias> no, no. I mean asp
17:28 <@rizen> 1) experienced users know how to delete pages
17:28 <@rizen> 2) it only takes a few seconds to do so
17:28 <+crythias> webgui as application
17:28 <@rizen> 3) if you expose an option to delete the default pages noobs are going to click on it because they're noobs
17:28 <@rizen> and can't help themselves
17:29 <+crythias> :ACK: blank page!
17:29 <+crythias> It's like I'm in WP5.1 DOS all over again
17:29 < Radix-europe> okay - argument against
17:29 <+crythias> or vim for that matte
17:29 <@rizen> 4) currently the site starter doesn't need to know anything about what pages are in the database and therefore can function even for companies who create their own create.sql to start, which lots of hosting companies do
17:29 <+crythias> matter
17:30 < Radix-europe> 1) it's annoying having to delete them every time
17:30 < Radix-europe> 2) they take up hard disk space and reserve urls
17:30 < Radix-europe> 3) they're redundant once you've read them once - and could easily simply be on the webgui site
17:30 < Radix-europe> since that's where you'd presumably downloaded webgui from anyway
17:32 < Radix-europe> an option to either not add them, or even a command line option to addsite or something would cater for everyone - new and old user alike
17:32 < elnino> are we discussing on whether to have default pages deletable in a new installation?
17:32 < Radix-europe> yes
17:33 < elnino> how about making it an option during installtion?
17:33 < elnino> ie: install default pages, or not
17:33 < Radix-europe> woohoo.. exactly what I've been asking for
17:34 < Radix-europe> Anyway.. I see I won't get anywhere this way, so I'll try making an RFE for it
17:34 <@rizen> the rfe isn't going to help you if you can't defend your argument
17:34 <@rizen> your bullet points are good so far
17:34 <@rizen> but they don't adequately address 3 and 4
17:34 <@rizen> of mine
17:35 < elnino> are # 3 and 4 referring to the person installing? or the person that is doing the content manageent?
17:36 <@rizen> 3 is referring to the new person coming to the webgui demo site, or a brand new webgui hosting site for the first time
17:37 < Radix-europe> #3 can be addressed by simply explaining what the option does - and suggesting that users who are new to webgui click here (ie. recommended or something like that)
17:38 < elnino> to me, the person installing isn't necessarily the person doing the content management. so to have the option to not install the pages during *installation* does seem to address #3a dn 4
17:38 <@rizen> 4 is referring to the many hosting companies out there that create their own create.sql files that are loaded rather than the default webgui create.sql file and therefore has information in it that we wouldn't know how to delete...or worse yet, they've just edited the default pages and so they have their default content which they don't want deleted using our asset ids
17:38 < Radix-europe> #4 - Well it depends how this is implemented - if the default pages are put in a separate sql file and run only when selected then this would solve this
17:38 < elnino> the content managemnt person can delete the pages manually if they want and when they want.
17:38 <@rizen> radix: wrong on number 3 again, because PEOPLE DON'T READ
17:38 <@rizen> they just click
17:39 < elnino> but only the installer can decide whether to isntall them or not, and it would be to their benift to install them i f the content managers are noobs
17:39 < Radix-europe> Sure they do - if you have a big fat (recommended) next to it and it's the default option they'll click it every time
17:39 <@rizen> the default pages are not and will not be in a seperate SQL file
17:39 <@rizen> it's just not possible to do that
17:40 < Radix-europe> why not?
17:40 <@rizen> have you seen the database schema?
17:41 < xootom> is the default site configurable by the super administrator.., so if i'm offering a hosted webgui service, i could have a skeleton that i'd like created for all new sites with info on how to get support from myself, and that would be the new user's default each time, and give them a basic set of pages like contact, forums, gallery...
17:42 < Radix-europe> xootom; at the moment the default site is hardcoded in the sql file - I'm arguing to change that a bit and make it easier for hosters to do exactly that
17:42 <@rizen> look guys, i've got to get back to work. i don't have time to explain how all the internals of webgui work so that you can understand my argument. submit your RFE, and if it makes it to the top then we'll figure out a way to make it work
17:43 < elnino> topic change? =)
17:43 < xootom> could it use asset copy with children to copy a sub-tree out of the import node
17:43 < elnino> or a package
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17:43 < xootom> makes sense to me
17:44 < AMH_henry> how about separate the default pages from create.sql and put them in a separate perl script instead?
17:44 < elnino> suggested already... =)
17:45 < elnino> I have a qeustion about rssfeeds
17:45 < AMH_henry> rizen said that it cannot go to an new sql file, but a perl script is much easier to maintain
17:46 < elnino> what does the "enable rssfeeds" do other than create a child "rss from parent' asset? i would have expectd it to provide an asset that allows a person to get the url of the feed.
17:46 < elnino> or does is simply enable the ability, and I have to create the asset that gives the url to the user?
17:47 < elnino> my guess is that the amount of sql statements it takes to create the default site is too huge for a perl script.
17:48 < AMH_henry> we use scripts here to create pages directly as assets, no sql required
17:49 < elnino> I don't know then.
17:49 < xootom> can anyone help with a problem i've got, i must have overlooked something simple. can I pull an sql report, reporting on members of my class (which is a group) - so something like select * from results where group=myclass, so i can only see results for people in my class. Is there a macro to find the name of my group?
17:50 < elnino> I think you can do that in the administrative side. View users in this group sort of thing.
17:50 <@Haarg> there's a template variable rss.url to get the url for the rss feed
17:51 < elnino> Haarg: is that only availabl ewhen I 'enable rss'?
17:51 < xootom> yeah but i need the results of the sql report that only contain people in the group
17:52 <@Haarg> yes.  and it points to the 'RSS from Parent' asset.
17:52 < elnino> right, it's in the administrave screen, or is your requirement to have it in a sql report?
17:52 < elnino> thanks haarg.
17:52 < Radix-europe> http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/option-to-not-get-the-default-pages-when-you-create-a-new-webgui-site
17:53 < xootom> yes the sql report needs to show different data depending on the group i'm in, so i see data related to my group
17:54 < elnino> xootom: if you enbable debugging: would it display the sql statements being run from the administriave screen so you can copy it to create your sql report?
17:55 < xootom> maybe but that would be the static statement wouldnt it? i need a placeholder in my sql report that reflects the current user's group at the time (if that makes sense)
17:56 < elnino> oh. I'm pretty sure there is a macro that gives you your group. Use that macro in the sql statement that you grab from the debugging.
17:57 < elnino> I have another question: I'm setting a scratch variable in a macro that is called  from a sql-based group: $session->scratch->set("loginat","here");
17:57 < elnino> And then I'm reading it from a displayLogin in my Auth.pm module: $self->session->scratch->get("loginat");
17:57 < elnino> but it doesn't seeem to be able to get it. I read somewhere that scratch variables are renamed, is this the case in which it renames scratch variables?
17:57 < elnino> are scratch variables cookies or session variables?
17:58 <@Haarg> they are linked to your session
17:59 < elnino> is there a way to dump your session variables? because i can set them and read them just fine within the auth module, but not when it's set in a macro and then retrieved from the auth mod.
18:00 <@Haarg> there isn't a macro to get your group. i'm not sure how that would work even, given that users can be in multiple groups.
18:00 <@Haarg> you could look in the database, in the userSessionScratch table
18:01 < elnino> thanks haarg.
18:01 < elnino> xootom, haarg: oh.. I think I've been able to dump groups some how. I'll have to log off to get it.  (site is behind I firewall, and I have to vpn to get there) I'll be back, if you can wait?
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18:02 < xootom> yeah :) thanks
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18:09 < elnino_> xootom. I don't have a macro, but if you create a macro that calls $u->getGroups (from the Users.pm) then I think you'll get what you want.
18:10 < xootom> ok that helps, i'll have a go. many thanks
18:11 < elnino_> I have another question: I create my own auth mod, and would like to redirect users to a offsite login form. Is there an appropriate place in the WebGUI.pm auth (my auth mod is a copy of it) mod, that will allow me to redirect the user before anything is written to the headers?
18:11 < elnino_> I tried doing this in the displayLogin proceedure, but stuff was already written to the headers.
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18:13 < elnino_> hopefully that makes sense?
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18:16 < Radix-europe> Hey doug
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18:20 < elnino_> Hi. I'll reword my question: I've copied the webgui.pm auth module as my own, and would like to instead redirect a user to the login screen (a static page). Is there an appropriate place to do this? I tried within the displayLogin proceedure, but html has been written already, so I couldn't redirect the user. Or is it too late by the time that auth mod is instanciated?
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18:30 < elnino_> hopefully someone can tell?
18:31 < elnino_> *help*
18:32 < pjesi> sorry don't know yet, but I am starting to do similar stuff
18:33 < elnino_> glad to know that it's not a crazy idea.
18:35 < elnino_> I've mananged to rewrite the form so that it submits to the static page, but that's not working to well, and someting tells me that's not really a good idea. The static login page is on a different subdomain. What have you all tried pjesi?
18:36 < pjesi> elnino_: you are way ahead of me, I am just starting to figure out how to implement the custom auth module
18:48 < elnino_> if anyone is looking into my question, plesae let me know and I'll wait, otherwise, I need to log off to vpn into work. - I can't work while logged into this.
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18:59 -!- rizenisaway is now known as rizen
18:59 <@rizen> quick opinion poll
18:59 <@rizen> If you ran the following command: ./wreservice.pl --start mysql
18:59 <@rizen> and it fails
19:00 <@rizen> do you want it to say
19:00 <@rizen> a) nothing
19:00 <@rizen> b) Couldn't start MySQL
19:00 <@rizen> c) A full error message that tells you everything it can about why it couldn't start mysql
19:00 <@rizen> ?
19:00 < xootom> c
19:07 < xootom> can anyone tell me if there is any documentation to the graphing API? Is it accessible through an SQL report, so I can show say a plot instead of a table?
19:09 <@rizen> it is not currently available to the SQL report, although that is something that perlDreamer is working on for 7.5
19:09 <@rizen> there are api docs for it at http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds
19:09 <@rizen> then choose your version
19:10 < xootom> looked through there but couldn't see anything about graphs
19:15 <@rizen> http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds/7.3.22-stable/api/Image.html
19:15 < xootom> ah ha it's under image
19:16 <@rizen> http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds/7.3.22-stable/api/Image/Graph.html
19:16 <@preaction> i'd pick "c" as well, I'd want to know everything
19:17 < xootom> yes, only the admin is going to see it (and panic, trying to find the cause)
19:17 <@preaction> does that mean that the wreservice.pl script is actually going to tail the mysql error log for me?
19:17 <@preaction> because that would be killer
19:18 <@rizen> no, but i suppose it could
19:19 < xootom> not sure how clean that would look, perhaps it could suggest the user tails it, and gives the full command with path, to prompt the admin
19:19 <@rizen> could have a --tail option
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19:22 <@preaction> so wreservice.pl will be the frontend through which individual OSes rc scripts are written?
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19:24 < xootom> rc.webgui already does that doesn't it, e.g. rc.webgui startmysql
19:25 <@preaction> right, i'm thinking wreservice.pl is the new rc.webgui
19:43 < nuba> rizen: b) Couldn't start MySQL. With maybe a pointer to "check /data/wre/prereqs/mysql/var/$hostname.err for more information"
19:45 < nuba> dunno, but i'd rather have the error go to mysql's own error log
19:45 <@preaction> it will be there, mysql does that itself
19:46 <@preaction> i'd just like to avoid going to dig it out myself, so the option to --tail or --verbose would be nice
19:46 < nuba> a --verbose would be fine too
19:53 < xootom> or oppositely a --quiet
19:54 < nuba> heh
19:57 <@preaction> imho quiet should be default. if the program wants to notify the user that there IS more to see with --verbose, it can go ahead
19:57 <@preaction> progressive enhancement, instead of graceful degradation
19:59 < nuba> i think the default should be 'loaded service foo ok' or 'couldn't load service foo'. a --quiet would output nothing except maybe errors to sdterr, and a --verbose would spill the detailed errors too
20:01 < xootom> i suppose it depends if the target user is an admin interactively running the command, then in the use case of it failing, they need to fix it asap with all the info they can get. If it's feeding an error status back to something else, then i can see why detailed errors might not be appropriate
20:01 < nuba> i dont think its fit for a --quiet to produce output like 'loaded foo ok'. when you have a --quiet switch it usually means 'output nothing unless strictly necessary'
20:02 < xootom> i'm not sure why by default you'd want to hide information that might help the admin diagnose why the command failed
20:02 <@preaction> i'm thinking this is THE script to start/stop the wre services, from cron, from remote, from web, from console, from startup, etc...
20:03 <@preaction> by default it should do what most startup scripts do, "Starting Blah... OK" or "Starting Blah... FAILED" (something along those lines)
20:03 < xootom> i'm not sure what the convention is for such scripts within webgui to feed back to the interface, return codes etc.
20:03 < xootom> yeah 
20:03 < nuba> preaction: yup, thats what im understanding too
20:04 < danny_mk> Good afternoon!  preaction:  Did you get the code for the chat Wobject cleaned up?
20:04 < nuba> in such cases when you dont have a --quiet switch you sometimes have to redirect stderr/stdout to /dev/null
20:05 <@preaction> danny_mk, lord no, i'm sitting in a starbucks lounge just so i can put in my 8 hours of work today. i can give you what i have now along with some instructions on what needs to be deleted or cleaned up
20:07 < danny_mk> cool.  Can you mail it to danny_mk@yahoo.com?
20:07 <@preaction> k, give me 30 minutes about.
20:08 < danny_mk> sure, take your time, I have plenty of work to do :-)
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21:25 -!- sno [n=sno@adsl-76-226-124-228.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #WebGUI
21:25 < sno> Good day
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21:54 < nuba> wonder if he thinks he was snobbed away then left
21:55 < nuba> we should have a bot here for handling such cases
21:55 < nuba> eliza-powered
21:56 < nuba> :)
21:59 <@rizen> i thought that's why we set up the nuba bot
21:59 <@rizen> hello nuba, my name is rizen
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22:10 < xootom> rizen, you were helping me yesterday with my problem of how to represent teachers and students in a particular school in webgui, and the way forward was to have each school as a group. now my problem is, how can a report show details about students in one school to the teacher of that school, without having to write custom reports for every school? if the school was a profile field (my original thought) then i'd have been able 
22:12 <@rizen> how is being in a group different from being in a profile field in that sense?
22:12 <@rizen> both are database tables
22:12 < xootom> just that i can write an sql report using the profile fields in where clauses
22:12 <@rizen> you can do the same with groups
22:12 <@rizen> the two tables in question are groups and groupings
22:13 <@rizen> in webgui, unless it's a file, it's stored in the database
22:13 <@rizen> so everything is a table you can report on
22:13 < xootom> true, i'm wondering if there will be a problem if they're in multiple group
22:13 < xootom> s
22:14 <@rizen> why would there be a problem...you're looking for a specific school name and a specific user
22:14 <@rizen> the same as you would be in the profile
22:14 < xootom> yeah of course
22:14 <@rizen> in fact, it will be easier to deal with multiples using groups than with profiles
22:14 <@rizen> cuz groups are designed for multiples
22:14 <@rizen> profiles aren't
22:15 < xootom> that's true. yes i think i'm getting my head too muddled :)
22:15 < SDuensin> Hey rizen - another FYI...  Just posted all-new installation instructions for my desktop app.  MUCH easier to do now.  
22:16 <@rizen> keep in mind that you may be better off writing an asset for this reporting simply because the perl API changes way less frequently than the database schema
22:17 <@rizen> sweet SD. i have to be honest with you though, the main reason i haven't checked it out yet is that my busiest time of the year is april through september...after the WUC i'll have lots more free time
22:17 < SDuensin> That's cool.  I completely understand.  That's why there's no YUI desktop yet.  :-P
22:18 <@rizen> xootom, not that the database schema for users and groups changes that often
22:18 <@rizen> rarely, if ever in fact...but that's not true of most other tables
22:19 <@rizen> just wanted to let you know in advance
22:19 < xootom> yeah i think you might be right
22:20 < xootom> at the moment i'm just trying to get things in place as quickly and simply as possible, my perl skills aren't up to much yet :(
22:20 <@rizen> you should come to the development workshop at the WUC
22:20 <@rizen> two days of intensive perl and webgui api to get you up to speed
22:21 < xootom> would love to but i'm in the uk
22:21 <@rizen> or...you could always contact dev@plainblack.com and have us build it for you
22:21 <@rizen> Radix is in Australia, but he came last year
22:21 <@rizen> we have people from all over the world every year
22:21 < xootom> when is it?
22:22 <@rizen> 3rd week in october: http://www.plainblack.com/wuc 
22:24 < xootom> mmm looks good
22:29 < nuba> rizen: huh
22:29 <@rizen> i was saying you are a bot
22:29 <@rizen> joke didn't work
22:29 <@rizen> nevermind
22:29 < nuba> i was out having some snacks
22:30 < nuba> you know, organic fuels for organic bots aka humans
22:31 < nuba> now, some eliza bot can even be helpful when extracting info from people looking for webgui support
22:31 < nuba> "why do you say that?"
22:31 < nuba> "did you check the forum?" "what do you see at the logs?" etc.
22:34 < nuba> "interesting. can you please be more specific?" thats one inspired on the thx1138 film :)
22:34 <@rizen> it's a public irc channel...write a bot and connect it
22:34 <@rizen> sounds like a good idea
22:38 < nuba> any bot name idea ?
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22:44  * SDuensin has a bot.  It plays Infocom games.  :-)
22:47 <@rizen> how about eliza
22:47 <@rizen> or is that too obvious?
22:48 < nuba> too obvious i think..
22:49 < nuba> using prj2501.. that clued AI bot from ghost in the shell
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22:49 < nuba> prj2501: test
22:50 < nuba> ok its working in private /msgs
22:50 < nuba> let me get it to work here..
23:08 < nuba> prj2501: test
23:09 < prj2501> nuba: I'm not sure I understand you fully.
23:09 < nuba> prj2501: why not? im just saying my webgui isnt working!
23:09 < prj2501> nuba: Is it important to you that your webgui isnt working?
23:09 < nuba> prj2501: of course it is! i have a deadline to meet. can you help me?
23:09 < prj2501> nuba: Do you say you have a deadline to meet for some special reason?
23:10 < nuba> yes, you know, bringing milk to the kids, etc.
23:10 < nuba> oops, it won't work without the nick ..
23:10 < nuba> that would be complicated to handle
23:11 < nuba> will leave it that way
23:12 <@preaction> oh god now we have an elizabot...
23:12 <@preaction> prj2501: You are hereby commanded to help teh n00bz
23:12 < prj2501> preaction: Perhaps you would like to be hereby commanded to help teh n00bz.
23:13 < nuba> hehe
23:14 <@rizen> prj2501 licks balls
23:15 < nuba> prj2501 test
23:16 < nuba> changing the regexp again..
23:27 < xootom> ooo i've just built php against the wre's mysql, every few requests it's not connecting to mysql, webgui sites returning Fatal Internal Error :S
23:27 < SDuensin> :-(
23:31 < nuba> prj2501 licks JT's balls
23:31 < prj2501> nuba: Does talking about this bother you?
23:31 < nuba> there you go
23:33 < nuba> i love irssi
23:33 < nuba> and its embedded perl feature
23:34 < prj2501> me too. i couldnt live without it!
23:35 < prj2501> now go back to work, silly human!
23:35 < nuba> k
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23:43 < xootom> hmm for some reason my wre's mysql is restarting every 30 seconds or so
23:47 < xootom> ahh think it's cos i deleted the test database by accident, so spectre's rebooting it every 30s...blush...
23:47 <@preaction> eh, it happens to the best of us
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--- Day changed Thu Aug 02 2007
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00:24 < elnino> hello? real quick question.  What object (perl module) and method do I use to check to see what url parameters have been pased to a page?
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00:32 <@preaction> elnino, the webgui way? WebGUI::Session::Form
00:32 <@preaction> otherwise you can use CGI.pm
00:34 < elnino> webgui way.  =)  I'm lookin specifically when the ?op=auth;method=init is set.. 
00:34 < elnino> which is kinda weird. What does the semi colon do? isn't that supposed to be an &amp;?
00:34 <@preaction> yes, WebGUI::Session::Form. the $session has a ->form to get the WebGUI::Session::Form object
00:35 <@preaction> no, semicolon is the preferred method these days
00:35 < elnino> oh. that's new. So those are two different parameters. That's what I wanted to know.  Thanks!
00:35 <@preaction> mainly because & is also the start of an HTML entity (as you pointed out, &amp; or &quot; or &lt;)
00:36 < elnino> that would make sense.
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00:36 < elnino> another question that is a little more depth, but it took me for ever to figure out why my form wasn't working.
00:37 <@preaction> elnino, just a word of warning: be careful making a new Auth. some of the subroutines in WebGUI::Auth do not have the same prototype as their children in WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI
00:37 < elnino> any idea why webgu's form defaults to enctype="multipart/form-data" when it should be "application/x-www-form-urlencoded" by default?
00:37 <@preaction> because multipart/formdata allows for file uploads
00:38 <@preaction> application/x-www-form-urlencoded is just one part of a multipart/form-data POST
00:38 < elnino> yea. but I was using that method, not knowing you defaulted it to that, and my form wouldn't work untill I changed it to "application/x-www-form-urlencoded"  that bit me hard for several hours.
00:39 < elnino> opps. did that come accross? it doesn't look right on my chat software.
00:40 <@preaction> that's weird
00:40 < elnino> back to your warning... I copied /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Auth/WebGUI.pm. to create my own auth mod. Should I have copied the parent Auth.pm?
00:41 <@preaction> no, you did right, i'm just saying be careful because it's a lot of messed up in there :(
00:41 < elnino> lot of ??  people?
00:41 <@preaction> no, it's just messy. some bad things that can't be fixed because it will break API
00:42 <@preaction> pardon my broken english
00:43 < elnino> OK.  Thanks for your help, preaction, I'm signing off to read url parameters!
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01:01 < elnino> hi preactioin... What object did yousay I needed to use for looking at url parameters?  I can't seem to find it...
01:01 <@preaction> WebGUI::Session::Form
01:01 <@preaction> it's part of the session object, $session->form->get("parameter name")
01:02 < elnino> oh.. I'll look again. Thanks! bye.
01:02 < elnino> Super.. Thanks!
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01:16 <+crythias> Radix_ you there?
01:16 <+MrHairgrease> he probably is not
01:17 <+MrHairgrease> he's in the Netherolands right now
01:17 <+MrHairgrease> and uses the nick radix_europe
01:17 <+MrHairgrease> but maybe he's using Radix_ too
01:17 <+crythias> heh. OK. I was thinking about the default install of new sites. 
01:18 <+MrHairgrease> ok
01:18 <+crythias> back 8 hours ago.
01:18 <+MrHairgrease> he'll prolly be online tomorrow again
01:18 <+crythias> the problem was about the default install adding pages...
01:18 <+MrHairgrease> in the bestedest timezone of the world =)
01:18 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
01:18 <+MrHairgrease> i read a bit of it
01:19 <+MrHairgrease> but i understand the difficulties
01:19 <@preaction> 7.4 fixed that iirc. you could add something to the wizard that would remove everything
01:20 <+crythias> why not simply have the default site as a package to deploy, even if you don't install it?
01:20 <+MrHairgrease> i dunno
01:20 <+crythias> that *is* a cool way to show what the package thing does.
01:21 <+MrHairgrease> and it's about 00;20 over here
01:21 <+MrHairgrease> so i don;t wanna know right now =)
01:21 <+crythias> ah. I'm -6 hours from you. I should get home.
01:21 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
01:21 <+MrHairgrease> you should
01:21 <+MrHairgrease> =)
01:22 <+MrHairgrease> it's almost weekend =)
01:22 <+MrHairgrease> only two days to go
01:22 <+MrHairgrease> are you attending the wuc this year btw?
01:24 <+crythias> I don't know. 
01:25 <+crythias> I'm going to see. Every year, I think I'm going to go somewhere.
01:25 <+MrHairgrease> somewhere else during the wuc you mean?
01:25 <+crythias> well, last year I thought I was going to be moving.
01:26 <+MrHairgrease> ah i see
01:26 <+MrHairgrease> but you didn't?
01:26 <+MrHairgrease> so you're gonna move this year?
01:26 <+crythias> no. chickened out.
01:26 <+MrHairgrease> ok
01:26 <+MrHairgrease> that's not too bad
01:26 <+MrHairgrease> before you know it
01:26 <+crythias> actually, job is secure, but we were looking to upgrade house.
01:26 <+MrHairgrease> you'll be lik emicheal j fox in back to the future
01:27 <+MrHairgrease> ok
01:27 <+crythias> what? I'll get a Delorean?
01:27 <+crythias> and be able to use a remote control to control it?
01:27 <+MrHairgrease> i read somewhere deloerean is manufacturiong again
01:27 <+MrHairgrease> i'd opt for a kitt
01:27 <+crythias> I'll have my mom think I'm hot?
01:28 <+MrHairgrease> i have this thing for flashing leds
01:28 <+crythias> actually, have my mom think I'm Calvin Klein?
01:28 <+crythias> that's really creapy.
01:28 <+MrHairgrease> wtf?!?!?
01:28 <+MrHairgrease> you aren't calvin klein?
01:28 <+MrHairgrease> that a disappointment
01:28 <+crythias> well, I don't wear CK on my undies, that's for sure.
01:29 <+MrHairgrease> i'm sucking up to the worng people =)
01:29 <+crythias> and not so sure I need to fall out of a tree so my mom can take me in ...
01:29 <+crythias> anyway, how would I be like MJF?
01:29 <+MrHairgrease> MJF?
01:29 <+crythias> Michael J Fox
01:29 <+MrHairgrease> you aren't
01:29 <+crythias> comeon, it's your analogy...
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01:30 <+MrHairgrease> i must have been using drugs
01:30 <+MrHairgrease> without noticing
01:30 <+crythias> (18:26:36) MrHairgrease: that's not too bad
01:30 <+crythias> (18:26:42) MrHairgrease: before you know it
01:30 <+crythias> (18:26:45) crythias: actually, job is secure, but we were looking to upgrade house.
01:30 <+crythias> (18:26:53) MrHairgrease: you'll be lik emicheal j fox in back to the future
01:30 <+MrHairgrease> oh that
01:30 <+MrHairgrease> that was about the chicken part
01:30 <+MrHairgrease> or better said
01:30 <+MrHairgrease> you chickening out
01:30 <+crythias> oh. how he gets all mad being called chicken
01:31 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
01:31 <+crythias> ok.
01:31 <+crythias> 'cause, yaknow, I wouldn't mind having a DeLorean
01:31 <+crythias> heheh
01:31 <+MrHairgrease> sure
01:31 <+MrHairgrease> but where do you get the jigowatts
01:31 <+crythias> Mr. Reactor
01:32 <+MrHairgrease> lightning is seldom over here
01:32 <+MrHairgrease> oh yeah
01:32 <+MrHairgrease> just dump your trash in your car
01:32 <+crythias> but it's all about the petrol
01:32 <+crythias> hey. how do you know that's what I do to my car? oh. you prob. mean the reactor
01:32 <+MrHairgrease> petrol is too expensive over here
01:33 <+MrHairgrease> so for now
01:33 <+MrHairgrease> i'll keep using my bike
01:33 <+crythias> we should be burning bole weevels
01:33 <+MrHairgrease> bole wheevels?
01:33 <+MrHairgrease> what are those
01:33 <+crythias> the scurge of the cotton crops
01:33 <+crythias> scourge
01:33 <+MrHairgrease> ah
01:34 <+MrHairgrease> scourge       (skūrj)  Pronunciation Key   
01:34 <+MrHairgrease>  n.    A source of widespread dreadful affliction and devastation such as that caused by pestilence or war. A means of inflicting severe suffering, vengeance, or punishment. A whip used to inflict punishment.   
01:34 <+MrHairgrease> sounds fun...
01:34 <+crythias> in fact, we could be running on maggot energy.
01:34 <+MrHairgrease> ok
01:34 <+crythias> that's renewable in only a few days.
01:35 <+MrHairgrease> i see it's time to quit and go to bed
01:35 <+MrHairgrease> =)
01:35 <+MrHairgrease> later guys
01:35 <+crythias> making a car with efficient use of protein.. later
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02:48 < elnino> hello. I'm trying to dump the value of a cookie, that has a bunch of key value pairs:
02:48 < elnino> my ($cookies) = $session->http->getCookies;
02:48 < elnino> my $authcook  = $$cookies->{'cookiename'};
02:48 < elnino> return $authcookie->{$hashkey};
02:48 < elnino> but I must be doing something wrong?  I don't quite understand hashes...
02:49 < elnino> oh. geez, I see a variable is named wrong.. Other than that does the code look correct?
03:52 < elnino> I gotta go, Ill try this, and may be back
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04:07 <@preaction> finally EVDO is working for me. I can work from home tomorrow.
04:07 <@preaction> the latency is something like 2 seconds, but i can live with that
04:08 < SDuensin> 2 seconds?!
04:08 < SDuensin> You live on the moon or something?
04:09 <@preaction> no, it's cellular and i'm getting poor reception
04:09 <@preaction> 4 bars of 8, i imagine if i went outside it'd be better
04:09 < SDuensin> I use EVDO every day.  It's NIIIIIIIICE.
04:10 <@preaction> looks like just a few hundred ms now
04:11 < SDuensin> That's better.  :-)
04:11 < SDuensin> Who are you using?  Mine's a Verizon ExpressCard adapter.
04:12 <@preaction> SprintPCS Phone as Modem with a Samsung Upstage
04:12 <@preaction> gotta go, i think my gf just called
04:12 < SDuensin> See ya!
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13:47 < xootom> hi all, does anyone know why when i create groups of groups, the Admins group keeps appearing within groups?
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14:12 < AMH_henry> @xootom: i think admin should get rights from all groups.
14:13 < xootom> Just looks a bit odd as it's a child of every single group
14:15 < AMH_henry> well, if a group A is within group B then group A inherits all rights from group B. it looks a bit odd for admins but at least admins will always have all right
14:15 < AMH_henry> rights
14:21 < xootom> I see what you mean
14:22 < xootom> Just looks confusing when you see it as a tree structure (manage groups in this group) and everything has Admins in it
14:23 < AMH_henry> yes, it look me a while before i got it heheh
14:23 < xootom> Can I run a grouping scenario past you and see if you think it's the best approach?
14:25 < AMH_henry> i'm not an expert on it, but sure I can give it a try
14:28 < xootom> Thanks! I'm using groups to represent schools. So I have a group for each school. I want to group them into partnerships, as the schools work together in partnerships, so I have created a partnerships group, which contains each partnership group, which contains the schools. Now I want to be able to group them into geographical areas (counties).. should I add a group for each county, and add the schools into each county? Or is there a better way of making the sc
14:28 < xootom> I'm not sure how easily it will be manageable though
14:29 < xootom> Plus I have students in each school, so they'll join the school group. Then there are teachers, so they will be in the school group too but also in a teachers group, so they can access reports. But then will I need a separate group for teachers in each school, i.e. two groups for every school, if I want teachers in a school to be able to edit their own set of pages?
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14:45 < AMH_henry> this is a rather complicated problem... to begin with your last question. I would create a teachers group for each school and make all teaches members of it. Also create a students group for each school. And then a school group. A school group will be member of both teacher and student group.
14:46 < AMH_henry> this way if you for example want pages editable by every one in a school then you can you the school group. If you only want access for student then you student group.
14:46 < MrHairgreas1> don't you mean you'll make the teachers and student groups memeber of a school group in stead of the opposite
14:47 < AMH_henry> @MrHairgreas1: to my understanding it works the opposite way. If group A is in group B, then group A inherits all rights from group B. 
14:48 < MrHairgreas1> yeah
14:48 < MrHairgreas1> that's correct
14:49 < MrHairgreas1> maybe i shouldn't respond to questions i haven't heard
14:50 < MrHairgreas1> but in most cases it's logical to put the teachers and student group in a school group
14:50 < MrHairgreas1> that also follows the normal hierarchy
14:50 < AMH_henry> yeah, that's more logical indeed, but unfornately webgui has choosen differently
14:51 < MrHairgreas1> as far as i know webgui hasn't
14:52 < AMH_henry> of course it depends on how you makes use of those groups
14:54 < MrHairgreas1> of course
15:02 < AMH_henry> @xootom: the same for partnerships. each partnership can be member of schools. do you get the idea?
15:07 < MrHairgreas1> hmm
15:07 < MrHairgreas1> i think you're still explaining it upside down
15:07 < MrHairgreas1> if you have partnership group
15:08 < MrHairgreas1> which should contain the schools forming a partnership
15:08 < MrHairgreas1> you should make the schoolgroups a member of that specific partnership group
15:08 < MrHairgreas1> if you make a partnership group a member of a schoolgroup...
15:08 < MrHairgreas1> the school won't be in that partnership
15:09 < MrHairgreas1> however the partnership will be in that schoolgroup
15:09 < MrHairgreas1> but
15:09 < MrHairgreas1> that doesn't make sense b/c the partnership group will be empty
15:09 < MrHairgreas1> in the latter case
15:14 < xootom> yeah mrhairgreas1 that all makes sense
15:15 < MrHairgreas1> just view the groups in groups thing as a tree
15:16 < MrHairgreas1> lower levels have the privileges of higher levels
15:16 < MrHairgreas1> but not the other way around
15:17 < xootom> i think i need to have lots of groups in my system to see how it works
15:17 < MrHairgreas1> ah
15:17 < xootom> if you have thousands of groups set up, do you still get them all in the same long list where you choose to add them to another group?
15:17 < MrHairgreas1> the famous "there's only one way to find out how it works" approach
15:18 < MrHairgreas1> dunno
15:18 < MrHairgreas1> never used that many groups before
15:18 < AMH_henry> @MarHairgreas1: i think you are right if you reasons that way.
15:18 < MrHairgreas1> nor did i ever do very complex groupings
15:19 < MrHairgreas1> rize can prolly answer that question
15:19 < MrHairgreas1> rizen*
15:19 < MrHairgreas1> it might be beneficial to write your own group management interface for that particular purpose though
15:19 < MrHairgreas1> and make it more natural to do the kind of groupings you want to do
15:20 < MrHairgreas1> have it use the Group API in the back
15:20 < xootom> yeah you're probably right
15:20 < MrHairgreas1> it'll happily coexist with the default group manager
15:23 < xootom> going back to my original scenario, if there is a separate group for teachers in a school and students in a school, both within the school group, will the teacher be able to get reports out about the students? as they're in a different branch
15:23 < xootom> or should the teacher be under the students
15:23 < xootom> that might work then i just find the parent group..
15:23 < MrHairgreas1> what do you mean by getting reports out?
15:24 < MrHairgreas1> teachers should never be below students
15:24 < MrHairgreas1> that would be very bad for preserving order in the classroom =)
15:24 < AMH_henry> @xootom: you can always create a separate reports group
15:26 < xootom> it's probably getting over complicated for what I'm trying to set up. example is there are 1000 schools set up, each has say 100 students and 2 teachers with access. I have say 5 different reports, for example report 1 could be a score against each student. Now, I need this report to be available to all teachers in all schools, but it would show the teacher only the scores of the students in their own school
15:26 < xootom> that sums up what I'm trying to achieve (the reports in question are currently sql reports)
15:27 < xootom> on top of that, each school can have its own set of pages, the teachers of that school would have editing rights (that's where the group security element comes in)
15:27 < MrHairgreas1> so set the view group of that sqlreport to the "Teachers of school X" group
15:28 < MrHairgreas1> for the school pages
15:28 < MrHairgreas1> set the privs as follows
15:28 < xootom> yeah but then i'd have to create the 5 reports 1000 times for each school wouldn't i?
15:28 < MrHairgreas1> view: school X group (teachers and students are in it)
15:28 < MrHairgreas1> edit: "teachers of school x" group
15:29 < MrHairgreas1> you'll have to do that anyway i guess
15:29 < xootom> yeah that's fine
15:29 < xootom> just how to have one set of reports, not having to maintain 1000 versions
15:30 < MrHairgreas1> i'm not sure you can do that with just an sql report
15:31 < MrHairgreas1> it depends on how the scores are stored i guess
15:31 < xootom> essentially a table with userId against scores
15:32 < MrHairgreas1> hmm
15:32 < xootom> so i can query the webgui database groupings to find all the users in a group, and find all the scores for those users
15:32 < xootom> but if the teachers and students are in different groups
15:32 < xootom> hmm might just need a more complex query to join it all together
15:32 < MrHairgreas1> what you could do it
15:32 < MrHairgreas1> is*
15:32 < MrHairgreas1> figure out in which school group the teacher is
15:33 < MrHairgreas1> and then get all users in the groups of that group
15:33 < MrHairgreas1> in that case you'll get the uids
15:33 < xootom> yeah i wonder if i could write a macro to do that
15:33 < MrHairgreas1> of both teachers and students for a school
15:34 < MrHairgreas1> for the report the teacher being in there don't matter
15:34 < MrHairgreas1> b/c they don't have score in that table anyway
15:34 < MrHairgreas1> you could write a macro
15:34 < MrHairgreas1> but it could potentiall give you a long list of results
15:34 < MrHairgreas1> what you could also try to do is create a VIEW
15:35 < MrHairgreas1> containing student coupled to teachers or something like that
15:35 < MrHairgreas1> and use that in your query
15:35 < MrHairgreas1> just giving options
15:35 < xootom> ahhh yeah
15:35 < MrHairgreas1> dunno how weel it would work
15:36 < xootom> arr got to go for a bit thanks for all your help :)
15:36 < MrHairgreas1> np
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15:50 < AMH_bob> Goodmorning!
15:51 < MrHairgreas1> hi
15:51 < SDuensin> Hey AMH_bob & MrHairgreas1 
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17:48 < elnino> hello - quick question. What pm module and method do I use to get the current page's viewable group?
17:56 < AMH_henry> @elnino: you mean something like $asset->get('groupIdView')?
17:58 < nuba>  /na
17:58 < nuba> oops
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18:07 < elnino> Im thinking that will do it.  How would I get the current page I'm on?
18:09 < AMH_henry> if you have the current asset you can test if it's a PageLayout. If not, then try its parent.
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18:12 < elnino> oh. ??  I'm coding my own Auth mod, and simply copied webui's a rewrote the login form, so I don't think I have the current asset either.
18:14 < AMH_henry> you can get it by $session->asset
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18:37 < xootom> has anyone got an example of the GroupAdd macro working? its third parameter is a template, when is this displayed?
18:38 <@preaction> the template is used to display the macro itself
18:39 < xootom> i'll experiment
18:40 <@preaction> apparently all the GroupAdd macro does is display a link for the user to add itself to a group if the group is set to "autoAdd" and the user is not yet part of that group
18:41 < xootom> how come the first parameter is groupname, not groupid? there can be multiple groups with the same name, it's not a key field is it?
18:42 <+MrHairgrease> no
18:42 <+MrHairgrease> groupid is the only valid identifier
18:42 <+MrHairgrease> at least the one that won't break
18:42 < elnino> AMH_henry: Thanks for your help! I'll go try it now. bye.
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18:55 < xootom> trying the GroupAdd macro out, it seems to work with groups that don't have spaces in the name. it still showed after i'd joined the group though, which i don't think it should as the conditions for its display are that you're not a member already.
18:55 < xootom> should groups not have spaces in their names? and how do i identify other groups with the same name
18:56 <@rizen> why do you have multiple groups with the same name?
18:56 <@rizen> how would you ever tell them apart
18:56 <@rizen> you shouldn't do that
18:57 < xootom> i just tried it, i probably wouldn't choose to do that, but if I create a duplicate it doesn't say i can't
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18:58 <@rizen> i suppose we should protect users from themselves
18:58 <@rizen> report it as a bug
18:58 < xootom> i suppose in my previous example, each school is a group and could contain a sub-group of "students" and "teachers", there would then be lots of different groups with the same name.. I thought it was only a label, but with GroupAdd it's being used as an identifier
18:59 < elnino> hello. quick question. How do I de-encode a value that is stored in a cookie? the string has a space and when I display it on the webpage, a plus sign is displayed.
18:59 <@rizen> listen to what you are saying
18:59 <@rizen> so if you go into the groups manager
18:59 <@rizen> and you have 10,000 groups called "Students"
18:59 <@rizen> how wouuld you ever tell them apart?
18:59 <@preaction> elnino, cookies are stored urlencoded
19:00 < xootom> oh i know, i wouldn't do that because the groups aren't displayed in a tree, it's not easy to see the structure
19:00 <@rizen> instead your groups should be named "Students of School X"
19:00 <@preaction> elnino, use URI::Escape; uri_unescape(cookie string) # iirc
19:00 < elnino> perfect thanks!
19:00 < xootom> Yeah but they are limited to only 20 odd characters, i can't even fit in my test schools names without the students of school bit
19:01 <@rizen> they aren't stored in a tree simply because they aren't inherently hierarchical
19:01 <@rizen> 20 characters/
19:01 <@rizen> ?
19:01 < elnino> preaction: thanks for your help! bye.
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19:01 < xootom> "Warmley Park Special Needs Sch"
19:01 < xootom> then it chops off
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19:01 <@rizen> 30 characters according to the DB, but that should be increased
19:02 <@rizen> feel free to report that as a bug too
19:02 < xootom> yeah yes you're right 30
19:02 <@rizen> that should be increased to 255 characters
19:03 <@rizen> well maybe not that long
19:03 <@rizen> that's a sentence
19:03 < xootom> lol
19:06 < xootom> the problem if you do have duplicate group names - is that the problem, that it lets you create duplicate group names, as they are supposed to be unique identifiers... or should it be that groupadd takes the groupId as the parameter
19:07 < xootom> and groupadd doesn't seem to work if there are spaces in the group name
19:08 <@preaction> are you quoting the group name?
19:08 < xootom> yeah
19:08 < xootom> and should it disappear once i've joined the group
19:08 <@preaction> yes
19:08 < xootom> so i guess i could replace it with groupdel so they can leave again
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19:16 < xootom> just a random question, is the current version "7.4.0 beta", that will then turn into "7.4.0 (stable)" or will it go 7.4.0 beta to 7.4.1?
19:17 <@preaction> 7.4.0 beta will go to 7.4.1
19:17 < xootom> ok thanks
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20:13 <@rizen> preaction, what's the difference between ubuntu 6 and 7
20:13 <@rizen> is 7 a bleeding edge release?
20:13 <@preaction> no, all their releases are 6-month timespans
20:14 <@preaction> feature freeze at 5 months
20:14 <@preaction> so basically all the software is updated every 6 months
20:14 <@rizen> but it says that 6.06 is supported until 2011 but 7.04 is only supported until 2008
20:14 <@preaction> right, 6.06 was an "LTS" release, supported for 5 years
20:15 <@rizen> ok, so if i'm going to build a WRE for Ubunut, then 6.06 would be the version to choose, right?
20:15 <@preaction> if, for example, you didn't want to upgrade the entire system all tie time
20:15 <@preaction> i don't know, i use ubuntu on the desktop, and i don't know what ubuntu server users do
20:15 <@preaction> i'd say the latest stable
20:16 <@preaction> and if necessary they can backport
20:16 <@rizen> methinks that anybody really serving stuff is going to want long term support
20:17 <@preaction> most likely, and there will always be community builds
20:27 < nuba> rizen: got a couple of minutes?
20:28 < nuba> well just reply when you get around, anyway..
20:29 < nuba> im building a photo gallery using userDefinied{1,2} to store lat and long
20:30 < nuba> i've modified the rss template to include them, and modified the description to get output like this feed "http://api.flickr.com/services/feeds/groups_pool.gne?id=322338@N20&format=rss_200&georss=1"
20:30 < nuba> which then allows me to render them in the googlemaps asset easily
20:31 < nuba> now I wonder if there could be a "location" form gadget for webgui
20:32 < nuba> so that you could point/click or search for a location, 
20:32 < nuba> in this case, this is a photo gallery
20:33 < nuba> but I can see how you could benefit from being able to assign location attributes to random things inside webgui
20:34 <@preaction> Events perhaps?
20:34 < nuba> like, imagine a wiki page with knowledge related to a location
20:35 < nuba> yeah, events could be nice. if you can output rss from the events, then you could render that in the googlemaps asset as well
20:35 < nuba> (i havent really looked at the events asset yet)
20:36 <@preaction> there are some complicated parts, but those should be abstracted out in the future
20:38 < nuba> the "location form gadget" would be something like picasa's "Photo Location
20:38 < nuba> ©2007 Google - Map data ©2007 NAVTEQ. - Terms of Use
20:38 < nuba> "
20:38 < nuba> box
20:38 < nuba> ugh
20:38 < sno> I just built WRE 0.7.2 on Ubuntu server
20:38 < nuba> like the one at the bottom-right corner here: http://picasaweb.google.com/kevin.smilak/BestOfAmericaSGrandCircle/photo#4974034093674070034
20:38 < sno> I used 6.06 because it was best supported by VMWare
20:40 < sno> There were some additional perl modules necessary to get Spectre operational.
20:40 < sno> Outside the WRE package.
20:41 < sno> mod_perl also had some dependancies not provided.
20:41 < nuba> sno: you can add the additional steps you had to perform to the wiki, if you took notes during the setup
20:41 < nuba> that may help someone in the future
20:41 < nuba> or you, in case you lose your notes and have to do it again ;)
20:42 < sno> If my current project is delayed significantly, I can provide documentation for the whole Ubuntu server 6.06 install process.
20:42 < sno> The project comes first though.
20:42 < nuba> cool
20:43 < sno> The base Ubuntu Server install fails to includes some necessary components as well.
20:44 < sno> VMWare is very cool.  I've been using it since v4.2
20:44 < sno> I think Plainblack should create VMWare appliances for WebGUI
20:45 < sno> Lots of organizations have built server instances to plug and play.
20:46 < sno> I know VMWare is not Open Source, but it is still a great resource.  And the VMWare server engine is free distribution.
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21:03 <@rizen> nuba, i don't see any reason not to have a location form control
21:04 <@rizen> sno, the problem with that is keeping it up to date
21:04 <@rizen> i haven't yet found a way to automate the build process
21:04 <@rizen> in addition, the distribution package will be enormous
21:05 <@rizen> regardless, it is on my radar and if the means to automate the build process presents itself, i probably will do it at some point
21:11 < sno> I see it as two problems.  Establishing a baseline install, and then a separate upgrade solution.
21:11 < sno> I've found that getting it going was the hardest part.
21:13 < sno> More people would try WebGUI if they didn't have to abort the installation due to technical problems.
21:14 < sno> I'm a competent package installer and WebGUI is one of the hardest installs I've ever done.
21:15 <@rizen> i agree that it's difficult to do, but that's what the WRE is all about..admittedly it's not quite there yet, but it's getting closer with each release
21:16 < sno> WRE 0.7.2 was a 24 hour install for me.  And I've had practice with older versions.
21:16 <@rizen> yeah, but you compiled it from scratch rather than using a binary
21:16 <@rizen> when i'm using binaries i can install the WRE and WebGUI in under 15 minutes
21:17 < sno> I tried that and dropped it.  Iinstead whent the virtual machine routel
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21:17 < sno> Way too many problems with SUSE 10.2
21:18 < sno> I VM'd Ubuntu 6.06 with WRE 0.7.2 and that took the whole day.  Admittedly, some of the problem was because I used Ubuntu server instead of workstation.
21:19 <@rizen> but there again there isn't a binary...at least not one created by us
21:19 < sno> Ubuntu server leaves some packages out that WebGUI relies on.
21:19 <@rizen> in addition, that's the reason that the WRE is still at a 0.x release level
21:19 < sno> WRE 0.7.2 ubuntu 6.06 isn't a binary?
21:19 <@rizen> we know it's not perfect yet
21:20 <@rizen> i said there isn't one created by us
21:20 < sno> Yep, I understand.
21:20 < sno> Ah, then sourceforge has a contributed one?
21:20 <@rizen> the only binaries we create right now are RHEL, OSX, and Windows
21:20 <@rizen> yes
21:20 < sno> I see.
21:20 <@rizen> starting with WRE 0.8.0 we'll be putting out Ubuntu and FreeBSD as well
21:22 < sno> I'm just thinking that a VM Server that is plug in and play would be a great baseline system for someone to get the feel of WebGUI.  Updating processes would come afterwards.
21:22 < sno> I'm unsure what Xen brings to this 
21:22 <@rizen> and as the owner of a company who want's to put his best foot forward, if it comes from us, I want it to have the latest version, and that means an automated build process
21:23 < sno> Sure.  I understand that too.
21:23 < sno> That doesn't necessarily rule out Way-point type of distributions.
21:24 < sno> Someone isn't going to want to toss their entire operational web site because they want to download the latest prebuilt server.
21:24 < sno> Of course, I'm just talking.  Not insisting here.
21:25 < sno> I'm interested in good things too.
21:27 < sno> Anyway, my thought was that having known way-point VM'd server distributions presents a production base-line for offering enhancements to the latest version.
21:28 < sno> (to get to the latest version)
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21:30 < sno> A VM'd server may not be the best way to handle this for all time.  I'm just thinking of the first-timer.  If someone can get WebGUI operational with a minimum of effort, they might decide it fits their production environment faster.
21:30 < sno> Then they would go to a custom installation.
21:31 < sno> More stable units out there could mean more support requests.
21:33 < nuba> there was some talk of a webgui community appliance once, long ago
21:33 < nuba> by then vmware was running a community appliance contest
21:34 < sno> If you have VMWare Workstation (like I do) an appliance can be built.  I built a VM for my development work this week.  It's not suitable for a public appliance, but it can be done with a little more effore.
21:34 < sno> effort.
21:35 < sno> Ideally, it would not be a WRE install on top of a Linux distribution, but an integrated solution.
21:36 < nuba> well, there are appliances available for most of the linuxes already
21:36 < nuba> i think the fastest way for a webgui appliance
21:36 < nuba> would be downloading one of those for which there's a binary wre available
21:36 < nuba> then get the rig going
21:38 < sno> Doesn't a WRE binary install supplant some installed components, providing it's own environment?
21:39 < nuba> i think so, i had to install some stuff inside a freebsd jail to compile it,
21:39 < sno> It is certainly plausible to build a VM server with WRE binary installation because I've done it.  However, a baseline project should probably be fully integrated with the host opsys.
21:39 < nuba> then inside other jails i only had to copy the /data/wre to get it working
21:40 < nuba> define: fully integrated with the host opsys
21:41 < sno> When I install WRE, I get two full perl instances on my filesystem.  One for the host, and one for WebGUI.
21:41 < sno> The host system having already installed one of them.
21:41 < sno> Same for Apache, etc.
21:42 < nuba> well, remove the OS's apache if you want
21:42 < nuba> wouldn't recommend doing that with perl
21:42 < sno> A source install would be better, but is a slow and bumpy process.
21:42 < nuba> some system scripts could go borke
21:42 < sno> Indeed.
21:43 < sno> If a select few base opsys were chosen, and a WebGUI source deployment applied to it.  That would be the basis for an integrated WebGUI appliance.
21:43 < nuba> I wouldn't worry about integrating with the OS's further than the crontab :)
21:44 < nuba> isnt the goal of what you're proposing just for webgui to get the foot in the doro?
21:44 < nuba> door*
21:44 < nuba> with this appliance?
21:44 < sno> Clean, tight, compact (or as compact as possible).
21:44 < nuba> let the masses try webgui..
21:44 < sno> That is an argument for an appliance.
21:44 < sno> I'm just thinking about how the appliance could/should be deployed.
21:45 < nuba> actually i think the public available demo addresses that nicely
21:45 < sno> But that is not permanent.  
21:45 < nuba> then the vmware appliace would come handy
21:45 < sno> Handing someone an appliance means they have a working environment for all time.
21:45 < sno> Right.
21:46 < nuba> still, one thing is building a 'check this shit out' appliance, 
21:46 < sno> rizen is concerned about providing the latest version at all times.
21:46 < nuba> another thing is a finely tuned custum built webgui appliance for production deployment
21:46 < sno> Right.
21:47 < sno> But there is no reason that a properly configured appliance can not serve both.
21:47 < nuba> not to mention requirements for deployment will be different
21:47 < nuba> then there's clustering...
21:47 < nuba> and so on..
21:47 < sno> And thus support contracts kick in.
21:47 < nuba> things get messy real quickly :)
21:47 < sno> and the revenue stream jumps.
21:48 < sno> Get them in the door, then sell them something.
21:49 < sno> I'm pretty sure WebGUI is built on that model.
21:49 < sno> This just takes it that one step further.  Easy installation.
21:50 < sno> All the mumbo-jumbo about a qualified appliance is really a discussion about what you want your in-the-door product to act like.
21:50 < sno> I much prefer a baseline that can be added to like legos.
21:51 < sno> And then when you outgrow your current set-up, well Plainblack has solutions for you.
21:51 < sno> Friendly, qualified technicians.
21:51 < sno> Oh, and there's the hosting...
21:52 < sno> Like to chat more, but time to go.
21:53 < nuba> ok
21:53 < nuba> you should check plainblack's hosting plans etc
21:54 < nuba> i think they're throwing the net and catching the fish earlier than you think
21:55 < nuba> see the demo, like it ? signup for the cheaper hosting plan.. then grow from there.
22:00 < nuba> anyway, check with rizen, i just hang here :)
22:21 < xootom> got a very quick question, i'm just on my way out :) if i have lots of groups, how are they presented in say the security tab, would hundreds be listed in the 'edit' drop down still?
22:22 <@rizen> yes, although that is getting changed to a selection from control the same as user is in an upcoming 7.4.x release
22:23 <@preaction> if they're "Show In Forms", yes
22:24 <@preaction> rizen, the ajax search thing?
22:24 <@rizen> it's not ajax, it's just a popup window that lets you search users
22:24 <@preaction> ah
22:25 <@rizen> it could be ajax, it just isn't
22:25 < xootom> cool thanks
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22:49 < nuba> interesting: http://perlsurvey.org/
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00:34 < nuba> in the ./Asset/Wobject/Collaboration.pm, sub getRssItems, we have inside the hashrefs pushed to @{$attachmentLoop}, the following: attachment.url, attachment.path, attachment_thumbnail, attachment.length. Why the _ on attachment_thumbnail ?
00:36 <@rizen> because it was created after the new best practices policy change
00:36 <@rizen> template variables can't have . in them anymore
00:36 <@rizen> and starting with 7.5 (probably) all existing template variables will automatically be converted to use _ instead of .
00:36 < nuba> ok
00:37 < nuba> was the new policy published somewhere ?
00:37 <@rizen> yes, the dev mailing list and the wiki
00:37 < nuba> i thought _ would apply to TT templates only
00:37 <@rizen> back in january
00:37 < nuba> ok. thx
00:38 <@rizen> it was part of my new years resolution
00:38 < nuba> i didnt see it, checking out now..
00:38 <@rizen> it's also been talked about on IRC in the months since then, but you may not have been on while we talked about it
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00:45 < nuba> probably
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01:15 < nuba> rizen: regarding the mini-beta thing, is there a "asset style guide" or "feature guide" anywhere ?
01:16 < nuba> like, "if possible, export table-data as CSV or etc"
01:16 <@rizen> what mini beta thing?
01:16 < nuba> "allow for importing and/or exporting in formats usually adopted when dealing with such type of data"
01:17 < nuba> mini-beta thread on dev list from July 7 2007
01:17 <@rizen> url?
01:17 <@rizen> sorry, i don't remember word for word everything that is said on there
01:18 < nuba> well you're complaining about the low quality of the interface or feature set of some assets
01:18 < nuba> low usability
01:18 <@rizen> do you have a url or not?
01:18 < nuba> badly designed interface etc.
01:18 <@rizen> i'll take that as no
01:18 < nuba> http://www.webgui.org/webgui/dev/discuss/mini-beta#O8Qve3OXnIvwnp2GIUFxmQ
01:19 < nuba> sorry I thought first you were asking if I wanted a URL to such a interface/feature guide
01:19 <@rizen> ok
01:19 <@rizen> what do you mean by feature guide?
01:19 < nuba> maybe you or someone should write a small guide of 'feature patterns'
01:20 < nuba> like "if you asset has child assets, provide means to list, search, edit, add, remove them"
01:20 <@rizen> no there isn't such a thing
01:20 < nuba> "when applicable or recommended, block the addition of child assets to your child"
01:21 < nuba> etc.
01:21 <@rizen> i really only have one statement in that regard: "Leave nothing unfinished. Take everything to it's logical conclusion."
01:21 <@rizen> ok that's two statements
01:21 <@rizen> but they mean the same
01:22 < nuba> ok
01:22 <@rizen> you're probably right that at some point someone should write such a document
01:22 <@rizen> but i'm afraid i'm not that guy
01:23 < nuba> well the thing is what you call "unfinished business" could be "good enough" for other people, thats when having such guide would be handy
01:23 <@rizen> i understand why it would be useful
01:23 < nuba> so it could be called a JT-compliant asset
01:23 <@rizen> i'm just not the guy to write ite
01:24 < nuba> k
01:24 < nuba> i may write, or help write one, eventually
01:25 < nuba> right now im mostly learning the webgui way by inspecting other people's code and the api
01:27 <@rizen> currently there's only one file in all of webgui 7.4 that follows the best practices to the letter
01:27 <@rizen> lib/WebGUI/Keywords.pm
01:28 <@rizen> we adopted the Perl Best Practices back in January, but it's going to take a long time before we can bring the entire codebase up to that standard
01:29 < nuba> k
01:39 < nuba> this Keywords.pm looks interesting, im updating to 7.4.1 to see it working
01:39 < nuba> sounds like what I had in mind earlier today, re: mapping random assets inside webgui
01:40 <@rizen> it's basically what other sites call "tags"
01:40 < nuba> im failiar with tags and tagclouds
01:40 <@rizen> but we already have HTML tags, template tags, and version tags
01:40 < nuba> i mean the implementation
01:40 <@rizen> so i didn't want to confuse the situation
01:40 <@rizen> anymore than it already is
01:40 < nuba> i mean a sitewide table 
01:41 <@rizen> well this API is capable of being applied to all assets
01:41 < nuba> i thought of a locations table, with assetId, lat, long
01:41 <@rizen> i just ran out of time
01:41 <@rizen> so currently it's only for the wiki
01:41 < nuba> yeah thats what I saw there
01:41 < nuba> nice
01:42 <@rizen> yeah, i think you'd need something different for the locations, but it would be a similar api
01:42 < nuba> btw a locator form gadget would call for a sitewide googlemaps key
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01:42 < nuba> so for it to work the site admin would have to go and fetch a api key
01:42 < nuba> i suppose you're ok with that reqiurement
01:42 < nuba> in the understanding that you'd be interesting in adding such gadget to the core
01:43 < nuba> oops, interested*
01:43 <@rizen> hmmm...i hadn't considered that
01:43 < nuba> i thought "it would be interesting" but changed mind in the middle of it :)
01:43 <@rizen> i guess it would be ok as long as people didn't have to use the key unless they wanted to use the asset that uses it
01:44 < nuba> well,  i can visualize that being like a WebGUI::Form::Location thing
01:44 < nuba> is that how you think of it too?
01:44 < nuba> or what?
01:45 <@rizen> the form yes
01:45 <@rizen> but the site wide google key...i don't want people to have to register for google keys just so they can create a webgui site
01:45 <@rizen> so this location form control has to automatically disable itself
01:46 <@rizen> unless the user has the key
01:46 < nuba> ok. so if (nokey) { graceously poof }
01:46 <@rizen> or if not disabled, it needs to downgrade gracefully to a simple lat/long field
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01:47 < nuba> ok
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01:57 < nuba> rizen: on the gotcha.txt, line 47, s/tempalates/templates/
02:14 < nuba> also check this string
02:14 < nuba> [root@frozen tools]# head -200 /data/WebGUI/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt 
02:14 < nuba> and some repeated line
02:14 < nuba> on http://www.plainblack.com/getwebgui/advisories/webgui-7_4_0-beta-released
02:15 < nuba> lines*
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03:13 <+crythia1> no public announcement on 7.4.1?
03:13 -!- crythia1 changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.1 | WRE 0.7.2 ] .:. Come To The WUC http://www.plainblack.com/wuc .:. Feel free to ask questions on here - but make sure you stick around long enough for us to answer! :)
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10:51 < Radix-europe> Mornin'
10:52 < AMH_henry> morning :)
10:53 < Radix-europe> :)
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14:09 < xootom> i'm struggling with my groupings problem still, if anyone has a moment.. i mentioned yesterday about having a group for every school, and within this, a group for students of the school and teachers of the school. anyone can join the students group, but access to the teachers group is controlled. if i'm logged on as a teacher, how can i get a list of students of the school? i might be in lots of different groups, so how do i identify which group is a school and
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14:17 < AMH_henry> @xootom: a group has a description field. You could fill that field with something that identify a school uniquely and search for it
14:18 < xootom> ahh you're right, that would help. but how do i know which school i'm in as a teacher, if i get a list of my groups it'll contain all sorts including forum subscriptions, etc etc
14:19 < AMH_henry> teachers also belong to a teachers group, right? You can use the description field in that group
14:23 < xootom> true, maybe all the teachers of school x and teachers of school y groups should sit under a teachers group. then i just find which group they are in which is a child of the teachers group. then i take the description which is the school name, and find the group that is students of that name
14:24 < xootom> not sure if its open to abuse though using descriptions like that, would forum post subscriptions contain school names or anything
14:27 < xootom> perhaps it would be easier without a students group, they are just in the school group
14:28 < xootom> yes that might work, a group of schools containing all the schools, a group of teachers containing a teacher group for every school, then i can find the teacher group for a teacher and using the matching description find the non-teacher school group
14:30 < AMH_henry> who is responsible for adding students and teachers?
14:31 < xootom> self registering students can add themselves to a school, some students will be imported from csv files and added to the school. teachers will all be manually added to their school's teacher group
14:32 < Radix-europe> xootoo - we manage our groups using sql lookups.  Every user has an account, but they don't belong to any groups by default.  Instead we use sql lookups to determine group membership - so we have a table in mysql that equates to each user and simply a number of rows for each group with a boolean flag in each.  Its simple but works a treat for us.
14:33 < xootom> do you need to create them all as webgui groups first?
14:33 < Radix-europe> yes
14:33 < xootom> brb
14:40 < AMH_henry> @xootom: another idea. Instead of using the description field, you could use AssetId as identification. Say each school has a unique number. All Students groups get assetId's like STUDENT<schoolID> (padding to 22 char. long) and all teachers group gets assetId's like TEACHER<schoolId>. This way you can easily find matching groups. It's a bit of an hack, but it's faster than using description field.
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15:55 < xootom> @amh_henry: thanks, what are assetids normally used for?
15:56 < AMH_henry> @xootom: assetId are the unique identifiers for an asset. btw, i meant group id
15:59 < xootom> ahh that's a good idea, i was thinking of having the school group's id the same as the school's id in our crm system, i could prefix it with s_ or t_ or something
16:01 < xootom> yeah if i precede it with teacher_ i can search for the group starting "teacher_" that the user is in to get the school's id
16:01 < xootom> thanks for your help :)
16:05 < AMH_henry> you're welcome :)
16:10 < AMH_henry> Wow! Your version:                                You are using 7.4.0-beta and 7.4.1-beta is available.
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16:20 < xootom> yeah i upgraded yesterday, these versions are coming out swiftly! got to make sure you don't miss one or the upgrade fails though
16:29 < xootom> amh_henry: are groupids max 22 characters?
16:29 < MrHairgreas1> yes
16:29 < MrHairgreas1> all guids are 22 chracters
16:30 < MrHairgreas1> please note that guids MUST be unique
16:31 < MrHairgreas1> so only generate them by yourself if you know what you are doing
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16:31 < xootom> sugar crm ids have 36 chars, maybe i'd be better using webgui to generate groups with random guids, and save those into the sugar db instead, or have another linking table
16:37 < xootom> hmm i've got a groupid 3, admins and a userid also with 3, is that bad?
16:39 < AMH_henry> that's default
16:40 < AMH_henry> groupid and userid are separate things
16:41 < xootom> ok so within a class of asset they must be unique
16:43 < AMH_henry> hmm... assets, groups and users are different entities. They all have their own unique id.
16:47 < MrHairgrease> assets have an owner
16:47 < MrHairgrease> which is a userID
16:47 < MrHairgrease> and a group toe edit and a group to view
16:47 < MrHairgrease> which are both groupId's
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16:53 < danny_mk> Good morning
16:53 < MrHairgrease> hi
16:53 < danny_mk> I know about the Forms
16:54 < danny_mk> however, I was wondering if anyone had a macro that would build a date picker field with a popup calendar
16:54 < danny_mk> since the yui library is already available it should be pretty easy to do
16:55 < MrHairgrease> as far as i know there is no such macro
16:55 < MrHairgrease> but it would be trivial to make
16:55 < MrHairgrease> what i don not understand however
16:55 < danny_mk> well, I am writting it now, just wanted to make sure it was not already done
16:55 < MrHairgrease> is what you want to do with such a macro
16:58 < danny_mk> well, how do you pass n+ fields to a sql report?
16:58 < danny_mk> if the user has to input these fields?
16:59 < MrHairgrease> oh
16:59 < MrHairgrease> i see
16:59 < MrHairgrease> your putting it in a sql report template
16:59 < MrHairgrease> and use the result in the query
16:59 < MrHairgrease> s/result/inputted date/
16:59 < danny_mk> it would be nice to have a macro that created an input tag with a popup calendar and date validation
17:00 < danny_mk> no
17:01 < danny_mk> picture this.  I have a sql report that produces a listing of states, something like:  <a href="/wgasseturl/moreinfo?id=5">Connecticut</a>
17:02 < danny_mk> the moreinfo page has a sql report that shows the current state information
17:03 < danny_mk> underneath that I have an article that contains an html table for fields within that state that I would like to modify
17:04 < danny_mk> the article is actually a form that has an action oofo /wgasseturl/updateinfo/
17:05 < danny_mk> when the contents of the modified state information get posted to updateinfo the database is updated
17:05 < danny_mk> does that help?
17:06 < MrHairgrease> and updateinfo is a custom asset?
17:08 < danny_mk> no, I think a sql report will do the job, have not gotten there yet.   Still working on the date field deal
17:08 < MrHairgrease> how does updateinfo update the db then?
17:09 < danny_mk> I havent gotten to that point yet.  I am still working on the more info page.  I think it can be done with a sql report as well.
17:10 < MrHairgrease> sql reports cannot update the db
17:10 < MrHairgrease> unless you state that your dblink allows that
17:11 < MrHairgrease> but allowing db writes through the sql report
17:11 < MrHairgrease> will almost certainly open security holes
17:11 < danny_mk> I can always write a custom asset, that is not show stopper
17:12 < MrHairgrease> yeah
17:12 < MrHairgrease> but if you do that
17:12 < MrHairgrease> you won't have to use this really complex setup
17:12 < MrHairgrease> also what you might consider using is the sqlform
17:12 < danny_mk> hmm... I did not think it was complex at all
17:12 < MrHairgrease> or maybe even a collaboration system
17:14 < MrHairgrease> if you are using articles to create input form that send data to some other page which will try to update the db without the ability to at least sanity check the data that's being put in
17:14 < MrHairgrease> i think your doing stuff too complicated =)
17:14 < MrHairgrease> but that's just me =)
17:15 < MrHairgrease> my guess is
17:15 < MrHairgrease> that what you want to do is possible using the SQLForm asset
17:15 < MrHairgrease> it's for power users only
17:15 < MrHairgrease> but you seem like one
17:16 < MrHairgrease> so give it a try
17:16 < danny_mk> you know, the save button for sqlform was disabled on my installation, I have to figure out why
17:17 < danny_mk> never mind, I just figured out why :-(
17:18 < MrHairgrease> it's diabled b/c you haven;t typed in a tablename yet
17:18 < MrHairgrease> ok
17:18 < danny_mk> anyway, it would still be nice to have a macro that generated that type of field
17:18 < MrHairgrease> sure
17:19 < MrHairgrease> go ahead and code it
17:19 < MrHairgrease> =)
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17:19 < danny_mk> sort of like ^YUIWGDatePicker("myFieldName");
17:19 < danny_mk> LOL, I was almost done with it when I asked
17:20 < MrHairgrease> heh
17:20 < danny_mk> I just thought to myself, "WHAT THE HELL am I DOING?"
17:20 < danny_mk> LOL
17:22 < danny_mk> I thought that there had to be an easier way, perhaphs someone already coded this or there is a way to do it already
17:28 < xootom> is it intentional that the default group for sql reports' download user group is ad manager?
17:28 < MrHairgrease> i don't think so
17:28 < MrHairgrease> my guess is
17:29 < MrHairgrease> that ad manager has the top position of the select box
17:29 < MrHairgrease> alphabetically it's ranked pretty much on top i guess
17:31 < danny_mk> MrHairGrease:  You know the SQLForm is still in Beta and defiinitely showing some odd behavior.  I got the "save" button enabled once when I typed in the table name
17:32 < danny_mk> but now it just won't enable again, no matter how many times I type in the table name
17:32 < danny_mk> I commited my changes and cleared the cache just in case but no dice
17:33 < MrHairgrease> oh
17:33 < MrHairgrease> that's weird
17:33 < MrHairgrease> you are not importing a table are you?
17:33 < danny_mk> does not matter
17:33 < danny_mk> if I leave it unchecked its dissabled
17:33 < danny_mk> if I check it its disabled
17:34 < MrHairgrease> hmm
17:34 < MrHairgrease> dunno directly what's wrong then
17:34 < danny_mk> have you used it before?
17:34 < MrHairgrease> i wrote it
17:34 < MrHairgrease> but i haven't used it  lately
17:34 < danny_mk> Ah, OK
17:34 < MrHairgrease> still
17:35 < MrHairgrease> if something going wrong t should tell you about it
17:35 < MrHairgrease> in stead of just not work
17:35 < MrHairgrease> =)
17:35 < MrHairgrease> which browser are you on?
17:35 < danny_mk> what is the trigger to get it enabled?  
17:35 < danny_mk> I am using Firefox 2.0.0.6
17:35 < MrHairgrease> ok
17:35 < MrHairgrease> which dblink are you using
17:36 < danny_mk> the one to my db
17:36 < MrHairgrease> not the webgui db right?
17:36 < danny_mk> it works fine for my reporot
17:36 < danny_mk> no, not the webgui one
17:36 < MrHairgrease> ok
17:36 < MrHairgrease> are you allowed to create table in that db?
17:36 < danny_mk> yup
17:37 < MrHairgrease> and this table name you entered
17:37 < danny_mk> hmm... let me check the username for that link
17:37 < MrHairgrease> does that exist already?
17:38 < danny_mk> darnit, in the list of allowed keywords I did not have "create"
17:38 < danny_mk> let me test it again.
17:38 < MrHairgrease> that shouldn't matter afaik
17:38 < danny_mk> well, I did not think it should since the object already exists in the db
17:39 < MrHairgrease> something has prolly gone wrong creating the table
17:39 < MrHairgrease> it's just weird that it didn't complain
17:39 < danny_mk> OK, I don't want to create the table
17:39 < danny_mk> the table already exists
17:39 < MrHairgrease> oh
17:39 < MrHairgrease> in that case
17:39 < MrHairgrease> you must be very careful
17:40 < MrHairgrease> the sqlform will change you table
17:40 < MrHairgrease> drop primary keys
17:40 < MrHairgrease> add columns
17:40 < MrHairgrease> so if you need it the way it is
17:40 < MrHairgrease> don't import it
17:40 < danny_mk> ok, then I can't use the SQLForm
17:40 < MrHairgrease> that why there is an import this table switch
17:40 < danny_mk> I would like to leave these as is
17:40 < MrHairgrease> it will not import tables
17:41 < MrHairgrease> if you do not switch it on
17:41 < MrHairgrease> but it should've told you that
17:41 < MrHairgrease> ok
17:41 < MrHairgrease> in that case
17:41 < MrHairgrease> you'd prolly be best off wrinting an asset specifically for it
17:41 < danny_mk> Ah, LOL.  I am back where I started :-)
17:42 < MrHairgrease> but you can combine the view and edit mode for your db
17:42 < MrHairgrease> in one asset
17:42 < MrHairgrease> in a safe way
17:42 < MrHairgrease> not by posting stuff to sqlreports with dblinks that allow updates
17:42 < MrHairgrease> heh
17:42 < MrHairgrease> good way to start the weekend =)
17:43 < danny_mk> question 2
17:43 < danny_mk> I know there are many webmail clients out there.  I currenly use OpenWebMail.  I was wondering if Webgui had a native WebMail client.  
17:44 < MrHairgrease> no
17:44 < MrHairgrease> not that i know off anyway
17:44 < MrHairgrease> of*
17:45 < danny_mk> OK
17:46 < danny_mk> There was a discussion on single sign on that showed a link to a collaboration suite written in Perl that looked interesting, I will have to find that again
17:46 < danny_mk> I need a good WebMail client for one of my websites.
17:48 < MrHairgrease> i don't think webgui offers you that
17:48 < MrHairgrease> yet
17:48 < MrHairgrease> it would make a pretty cool asset though
17:49 < danny_mk> definitely would
17:50 < danny_mk> Would need a team of developers just for that one I think :-)
17:52 < MrHairgrease> or a lot of time
17:52 < MrHairgrease> =)
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17:55 < nuba> danny_mk: i checked a while ago and the roundcube project was pretty nice
17:55 < nuba> danny_mk: in case you're fishing for webmail recommendations :)
17:56 < danny_mk> sure, however it is hard to find software that is developed either using Perl or Java.  I am trying real hard to keep my servers PHP and other software free
17:56 < danny_mk> just a personal preference. 
17:57 < nuba> same here
17:57 < nuba> not easy tho
17:57 < danny_mk> nope, but I kind of prefer it that way :-)
17:58 < nuba> actually I usually avoid java too, if possible :)
17:58 < danny_mk> RoundCube Webmail is written in PHP
17:58 < danny_mk> darnit!
17:59 < nuba> yes, i know. I've used it for a while, did some custom stuff for a client, check the code, it's not that bad..
18:00 < danny_mk> it is not about the code.   PHP is pretty easy to understand, I just did not want another language to worry about on my apps.
18:01 < nuba> have you found any good looking, perl-based, webmail ? 
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18:01 < nuba> or at least contemporary-looking.. 
18:01 < nuba> i think openwebmail is nice but would use some interface revamp 
18:02 < danny_mk> openwebmail works great, however the interface is a little outdated for me http://openwebmail.org
18:02 < danny_mk> right
18:02 < nuba> yeah its hard to have that as the webmail offering in your portfolio
18:03 < danny_mk> LOL
18:03 < nuba> its feature-rich, but butt-ugly
18:03 < nuba> as people are now used to interfaces like gmail's - for free
18:03 < danny_mk> right
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18:06 < danny_mk> If it would be integrated into WebGUI I bet the interface would benefit from YUI and the WebGUI api 
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21:42 < harleypig> Is there any known problem with starting spectre from the apache startup.pl script?
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01:10 < harleypig> How can I make spectre use localhost instead of going all the way out to the dns server to find my local ip?
01:10 < harleypig> Right now it's trying to connect to mydomain.com instead of localhost, so ithas to resolve the ip everytime.
01:10 <@preaction> set your hostname in /etc/hosts ?
01:11 < harleypig> I'd still have to set the hosts file to the external ip address.
01:11 < harleypig> I guess it's not that big of a deal, now that I think of it.
01:12 <@preaction> no, you could set the hosts file to 127.0.0.1 
01:12 < harleypig> No I can't ... I have other programs that require a valid ip for the domain name.
01:12 < harleypig> I'm slowly getting rid of them though.
01:12 <@preaction> that isn't a valid ip?
01:13 < harleypig> Err .. a valid external ip.
01:13 <@preaction> those sounds like some damned stupid programs :(
01:13 <@preaction> spectre uses the first siteName in your webgui config, unfortunately so do a lot of other things
01:14 <@preaction> (for display purposes, like mail sent out from a CS, but i suppose that's spectre sending out that mail)
01:14 < harleypig> It just occurred to me that I should be setting the spectreSubnet variable to my external ip.
01:14 < harleypig> *blush*
01:14 < harleypig> That's why it's unable to connect.
01:14 <@preaction> probably
01:15 <@preaction> maybe even the spectreIp
01:15 < harleypig> On another note on spectre ... is there a way to pass a command line parm that says exit if already daemonized.
01:15 <@preaction> not that i know of
01:15 < harleypig> I'm starting spectre in my apache startup.pl, but I guess I'm gonna have to add code to check if its already running.
01:15 <@preaction> i don't know if spectre is process-aware of itself
01:16 < harleypig> does spectre leave a pid file lying around?
01:16 < harleypig> checking code
01:21 < harleypig> Doesn'tlook like it
01:22 <@preaction> i dont know if we'd consider that a bug, but rather an RFE (Having spectre become process-aware of itself)
01:23 < harleypig> Yeah, I'd say it was an rfe too.
01:23 <@preaction> but with that feature, we'd be able to connect to running spectre instances, which could allow for some very cool debugging
01:24 <@preaction> feel free to post it, if we can get JT behind it it might make it into 7.5 (he's always looking for ways to minimize the problems people have with spectre)
01:25 < harleypig> Ummm ... how much is acceptable?  I haven't taken a deep enough look, but I know there is at least one module on the cpan that makes this easy.
01:26 < harleypig> I mean, how much change is acceptable?
01:26 <@preaction> how much what? i'd imagine it'd be as simple as spectre.pl checking for a $WEBGUI_ROOT/var/spectre.pid and then trying to connect using $WEBGUI_ROOT/var/spectre.sock
01:27 <@preaction> as long as it doesn't break any existing API (you can extend them, but not break them), it's acceptable
01:27 < harleypig> Ok.
01:27 <@preaction> the difficulty though, will determine how long it takes before plainblack puts hours on it(unless someone in the community does it)
01:27 < harleypig> :]
01:28 <@preaction> posting patches, as long as they follow the WebGUI Best Practices (search the wiki), are usually immediately added to the next beta version (7.5.0 in this case)
01:34 < harleypig> Wait ... connections to spectre are via http correct?  If so, sock programming isn't necessary right?
01:34 <@preaction> spectre connects to webgui via http, but currently there's no way to connect to spectre at all
01:34 <@preaction> wait, webgui can communicate with spectre
01:35 <@preaction> so yes, somehow. i think it's buried in the POE::Component::IKC::Client code
01:35 <@preaction> i dunno, spectre's still a bit of a blackbox to me
01:37 < harleypig> Oh.  Why is it always more complicated than I think it is?
01:37 <@preaction> the lament of every programmer everywhere ;)
01:37 < harleypig> :]
01:38 <@preaction> it always sounds easy, but it never is...
01:38 <@preaction> the 90/10 theory: 90% of the cases take 10% of the work, the other 10% take 90%
01:39 < harleypig> heh ... right.
01:39 < harleypig> wierd ... in the spectre.pl code there is a line that is supposed to check if spectre is already running ... but I'm not seeing that error code.
01:42 < harleypig> I need to back up ...
01:43 < harleypig> I'm trying to get a source install working and I'm getting the following error:
01:43 < harleypig> Couldn't connect to WebGUI site makethebad
01:43 < harleypig> manstop.biz.conf at http://www.makethebadmanstop.biz:80/?op=spectreGetSiteData.  Response: 500 read timeout
01:43 < harleypig> Can anyone help me pinpoint this error?
01:44 <@preaction> can you view that in a web browser?
01:44 <@preaction> did you try: cd /data/WebGUI/sbin; perl spectre.pl --test ?
01:44 < harleypig> No, I get a 500 error ... the log says ...
01:44 < harleypig> I wasn't aware of that option ...
01:44 <@preaction> it just tests connectivity, what does the webgui error log say?
01:45 < harleypig> same thing
01:45 < harleypig> Can't connect to data source 'dbi:mysql;makethebadmanstop_biz;host=localh
01:45 < harleypig> ost' because I can't work out what driver to use (it doesn't seem to contain a 'dbi:driver:'
01:45 <@preaction> that'd be your problem
01:45 < harleypig> err ,,, error_LOG says this
01:45 <@preaction> it should be dbi:mysql: (not ;)
01:47 < harleypig> Oh ... wonder if that was in the default or if I fat fingered it ...
01:47 < harleypig> I fat fingered it.
01:47 < harleypig> *sigh*
01:47 <@preaction> it happens
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01:57 < harleypig> Hmmm ... now that url is returning a json stream of just {}
01:57 < harleypig> and the spectre.pl --test is failing.
01:57 <@preaction> is the site up?
01:57 <@preaction> does the webgui error log say anything? how about the apache error log?
01:57 < harleypig> Ah ... I see ... my ip isn't in the list ... but the ip spectre is coming from is, according to the error message.
01:57 < harleypig> yeah.
01:58 < harleypig> apache error log doesn't say anything
01:58 < harleypig> webgui says samething ... 500 read timeout.
01:59 <@preaction> how about above that? webgui and spectre share the same error log
01:59 <@preaction> or pastebin a tail of your webgui error log
01:59 <@preaction> perlbot paste?
01:59 < perlbot> Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.
02:00 < harleypig> I'm reading the wrong part of the log ... I cleared the screen (pressed enter a bunch of times) and ran the test again.  No error in either log, but the console says: ERROR: WebGUI cannot communicate with Spectre. Perhaps you need to adjust the spectreIp or spectrePort setting the this config file
02:01 <@preaction> spectreIp in spectre.conf is the IP that spectre will try to bind to. spectreIp in the webgui.conf is the IP that webgui expects spectre to be on. both should be the same (and the IP of the box)
02:01 <@preaction> so probably your internet IP
02:02 <@preaction> and then spectreSubnets should probably include that IP as well (but i'm not sure if that's required)
02:03 < harleypig> Hmmm ... I was focusing on the makethebadmanstop.biz.conf file because that's where the variable spectreIp and spectrePort are ...
02:03 < harleypig> but I'll try changing the ip variable as well in spectre.conf
02:03 <@preaction> yeah, that's the right one
02:03 <@preaction> oh, sorry, thought you were meaning webgui.conf
02:04 < harleypig> Isn't webgui.conf the one that should be copied and modified for each site?
02:05 <@preaction> yes
02:05 <@preaction> i just said "webgui.conf" to refer to "yoursite's webgui configuration"
02:06 < harleypig> ah
02:06 < harleypig> makes sense
02:13 < harleypig> wow ... impressive starter once you get it going.
02:13 <@preaction> the new site wizard thing?
02:13 <@preaction> i've never actually tried it
02:13 < harleypig> Yeah
02:14 < harleypig> Makes it easy to get new sites going with virtual hosts ... very cool.
02:15 <@preaction> one of these days i'm going to make a call-to-arms for WebGUI Source Install package maintainers for various distros. it will help since some people seem to dislike the idea of the WRE adding an additional Perl / Mysql / Apache to their system
02:15 < harleypig> I don't ... that's why I went the source route.
02:15 < harleypig> I've already got all three, on a limited space account ... 
02:16 <@preaction> exactly, the type of people we need for "hobby users" (which in turn ask their places of employment to use WebGUI) usually know enough to run their own apache / mysql / perl
02:17 <@preaction> so if we can get a .deb package (depends on Apache2-mpm-prefork, mysql-server, image-magick, perl-5.8.8) and add some simple scripts to create / delete webgui virtual hosts, it would be easy to install webgui from source
02:18 <@preaction> the create script would add the appropriate virtualhost config to the appropriate place
02:18 <@preaction> like a2ensite does for debian
02:19 <@preaction> wg_addsite <sitename> and wg_deletesite <sitename>
02:21 < harleypig> I'm not familiar with those, but I keep my virtual hosts in separate files
02:22 <@preaction> they don't exist yet
02:22 < harleypig> So i wouldn't be comfortable automating thatpart
02:22 < harleypig> ah
02:22 <@preaction> wg_addsite would create a new virtualhost file from a skeleton, replacing the server name, according to the distribution's standard method of doing it
02:22 < harleypig> oic
02:23 <@preaction> it'd be customized for each distribution
02:23 <@preaction> or, theoretically, we could just maintain a man page that would tell the users how do to it
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02:23 < harleypig> and a default of a dumped file they could paste
02:25 <@preaction> something like an entire <VirtualHost *:80> they could customize for themselves
02:27 < harleypig> exactly
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03:31 <+crythias> ... and then I got the Wii and started moving content around with it within WebGUI and then...
03:31 <@preaction> omg 31337!
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18:00 <+crythias> http://www.costcentral.com/proddetail/Lenovo_3000_N200_0769/0769AFU/N03062/extended/
18:05 <+crythias> sorry
18:05 <+crythias> wrong link
18:05 <+crythias> http://www.freakingnews.com/PacMan-Pictures--1129-0.asp
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18:52 < danny_mk> crythias, you around?
18:53 < danny_mk> how bout you nuba?
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19:41 < nuba> just passing by
19:42 < nuba> oh hes not here anymore
19:42 < nuba> nevermind
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20:56 < danny_mk> Hi everyone
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22:35 < danny_mk> hmmm... the encrypt login option does not seem to be available in 7.4.1
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23:21 <+crythias> yawn
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06:10 < wgGuest26> alive or memorex?
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06:13 < crythia2> hm
06:16 < PerlPilot> hmm hm hmmmm hmmm hm hm hm hmmm
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11:10 < Radix-europe> hey dapperedodo - working from home today? :)
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14:54 < arnaud__> hi
14:56  * arnaud__ feels alone...
14:57 < arnaud__> is there an ongoing French translation (i18n part) for the latest version ?
14:59 < xdanger_> http://i18n.webgui.org/
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15:00 < arnaud__> thanks
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15:02 < arnaud__> no unicode...HTML element only ?
15:03 < arnaud__> We (french people) like to throws accent everywhere...
15:09 < arnaud__> forget my last comment... Seems like the editor take care of converting my accents to HTML entities...
15:26 < arnaud__> Should I follow the (english) text inconsistency ? Or correct it in my translation ?
15:26 < arnaud__>  "How many impressions (individual displays of the ad) has the advertiser purchased? If they purchased a number of clicks you can leave this at zero."
15:27 < arnaud__> shouldn't it be : advertiserS/they or advertiser/he ?
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16:07 < AMH_bob> Goodmorning!
16:08 < arnaud__> hi !
16:08 < arnaud__> (good afternoon here in France)
16:09 < AMH_bob> (yeah, same here in Holland :P )
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18:19 < danny_mk> anyone around?
18:27 < nuba> no
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18:37 < danny_mk> nuba, I can't figure out what style is used when visiting any page and passing ?op=auth
18:38 < danny_mk> I thouoght it was failsafe
18:47 <@Haarg> it's whatever is set for the 'User Function Style' in Settings > UI
18:51 < danny_mk> Thank you, darn that was hard to figure out :-)
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19:01 < sanyock> Hi People!
19:02 < sanyock> Unfortunately:
19:02 < sanyock> <tmpl_if session.var.adminOn>
19:02 < sanyock> </tmpl_if>
19:02 < sanyock> does not work for me :(
19:03 < sanyock> 7.3.22
19:05 <@Haarg> when did it stop working?
19:06 < sanyock> I did not use it previously and guess it should work in predefined templates, but it does not work in my template
19:06 < sanyock> Just tried to add it and does not work
19:07 < sanyock> This templates has some other macroses like ^AssetProxy("aulix/style1/navigation");
19:07 < sanyock> and tehy work fine
19:08 < sanyock> In resulting page <tmpl_if session.var.adminOn> does not exist but the text inside it does
19:08 < sanyock> I commited and cleared cache
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19:21 < sanyock> sorry, it was my mistake
19:21 < sanyock> works fine now
19:22 < wgGuest93> Hi. I'am a web designer and I'm new at CMS world. I've been reading and testing the demo of webgui; but I relly need more help (maybe starting from general concepts)
19:24  * sanyock wonders which SSO is the most popular and convenient: CSA or OpenID ?
19:25 < wgGuest93> it is possible to install Webgui in a comercial Hosting?
19:27 < sanyock> VPS
19:27 < sanyock> when u r a root
19:31 < wgGuest93> how i konw if im a root??
19:33 < sanyock> if you do not know about root then most likely you should use plainblack.com shared hosting
19:36 < wgGuest93> in this plainblack hosting, is Webgui pre-installed?
19:42 < sanyock> yes
19:47 < wgGuest93> there are several hosting plans at plainblack.com, will be enough with the "supported WebGUI hosting"?
19:47 < nuba> danny_mk: you can look at the html for any unique-looking string
19:47 < nuba> then search for it in the database
19:48 < nuba> i do that with phpmyadmin, makes searching the entire db really easy
19:52 < nuba> and to search the code i usually do "find /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ -type f | xargs grep 'string' "
19:52 < nuba> sometimes passing additional switches to grep
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19:59 < danny_mk> talking about SSO, is someone working on a Auth module for OpenID or CSA?
19:59 < danny_mk> I would be interested in using such a module.
20:01 < danny_mk> OK nuba, I thought about that but the answer was easier than I expected.  
20:04 < nuba> danny_mk: you'll have to send karma this way: http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/openid
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20:54 < danny_mk> if it does not get done soon I will have to take on the project myself.  It would be good to have this module.  
20:56 < danny_mk> I am still waiting to be passed the baton for the chat Wobject
21:18 <+crythias> oooh... chat.
21:26 <+crythias> seems everyone is doing a php chat thing
21:33 < danny_mk> no, not a php chat one
21:33 < danny_mk> a Perl one for Webgui
21:47 < xdanger_> nuba: just a quick note... why do you use find? why not just grep -R 'string' /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/* ?-)
21:50 < nuba> habits
21:51 < nuba> im used to do lots of things with find|xargs
21:52 < nuba> doing*
21:54 < nuba> plus you have things like mtime, size, etc with find
21:54 < nuba> pruning
21:56 < nuba> find rocks
21:56 < nuba> love it
21:56 < nuba> :)
21:56 < xdanger_> =P
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21:59 < nuba> dumb recursing can be a real pita
22:00 < xdanger_> I've never "really REALLY" mastered the *nix shell =)
22:01 < nuba> well one is always learning :)
22:01 < nuba> its hard to say one has really REALLY mastered anything..
22:03 < xdanger_> I have a friend who (in my opinion) has mastered it... and many other things...
22:05 < xdanger_> he has this incredible memory... he remembers every code that he has ever writen, and even all random generated passwords after just one read...
22:06 < nuba> well, that happens sometimes i guess
22:06 < nuba> now random generated passwords, after one read, thats crazyness :)
22:06 < nuba> is he like "rain man" or anything ?
22:07 < xdanger_> A little maybe...
22:07 < nuba> heh
22:07 < xdanger_> not in the "socialy stupid" but a little akward
22:08 < xdanger_> He's now a very creative person... He always says that he's a little autistic
22:09 < nuba> well they say no one is reeaaaly normal if you look close enough..
22:12 < xdanger_> true
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16:17 < AMH_bob> Hey, good morning!
16:20 < SDuensin> Howdy
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16:33 < danny_mk> preaction, are you around?  Do you have the code cleaned up for the chat Wobject?
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