--- Log opened Sun Jul 01 00:00:49 2007
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04:52 <+Radix_> Anyone about?
04:53 <+Radix_> dw
05:00 <+Radix_> 2007/07/01 09:57:39 - WARN - mycompany.com.conf - main::[[undef]] - Couldn't call method edit on asset for url: style/read/templates/read-navigation-template Root cause: Can't locate object method "new" via package "HTMLTemplate" (perhaps you forgot to load "HTMLTemplate"?) at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Template.pm line 252.
05:01 <+Radix_> happens whenever I try and edit a navigation template I'd created.. yet if I keep clicking on edit then it eventually works and opens it fine
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12:54 < tichy> Could not set uid/gid on '/var/www/domains/rab2/uploads/temp/qy/qySOEpf2dOLv1rEeorBPZg/ZheCfsFTMBtiBlSe-oDoAw.storage'
12:55 < tichy> whenn uploading a webui packages, but permissions seem to be right
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20:44 <+MrHairgrease> rizen
20:44 <+MrHairgrease> are you there?
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21:14 <@rizen> now i am
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21:15 <@rizen> for a few seconds
21:19 <+MrHairgrease> ok
21:19 <+MrHairgrease> the recent addons thingy seems to show only first revison of posts
21:19 <+MrHairgrease> http://www.plainblack.com/wg/contribute
21:20 <+MrHairgrease> untitled should be GoogleMaps Macro
21:25 <@rizen> post a bug report
21:25 <+MrHairgrease> ok
21:25 <+MrHairgrease> will do
21:25 <@rizen> oh and go get a hair cut, you hippie
21:30 <+MrHairgrease> just got one last week
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00:53 <+perlDreamer> You know it's bad when you don't pay attention to the bugs reported by your own tests...
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16:01 < SDuensin> Good morning.
16:11 < ckotil> hello
16:11 < ckotil> got an iPhone 
16:11 < ckotil> its great.
16:12 < ckotil> had to fight with att all day saturday to 'port'  my old cell number.
16:12 < ckotil> i didnt know it was called porting until the 4th call, back and forth between carriers.
16:18  * SDuensin iGroans.
16:19 < SDuensin> I'll wait until it's got a decent data network.
16:19 < ckotil> yah
16:19 < ckotil> web pages take about a minute to load, as do youtube videos
16:19 < ckotil> its excellent on wifi tho
16:20 < ckotil> i love being able to catch up on news while im on the toilet
16:20 < SDuensin> heheheh
17:11 <+Radix_> lol
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17:13 <+Radix_> http://www.tuaw.com/2007/07/01/prepaid-iphone-in-a-nutshell/
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18:03 < pjesi> I dont get the fuzz
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01:07 <@preaction>  http://www.ohloh.net/projects/103 <- interesting website about OSS
01:09 <@preaction> says that webgui would take about 10 million USD to build from scratch
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02:36 <+perlDreamer> rizen: I need a consult for a deprecation notice.
02:36 <+perlDreamer> We're not allowed to add new session variables, but the current ones are okay?
02:37 <+perlDreamer> That's from Asset::Template::Parser, line 37 or so
02:37 <+perlDreamer> But in the docs themselves it says bluntly that session vars are deprecated, wholesale.
02:37 <+perlDreamer> Which is it?
02:42 <@preaction> current ones are okay i think, new ones are a bad idea
02:42 <@preaction> i imagine they should be added somewhere else
02:42 <@preaction> or macros
02:42 <+perlDreamer> That's what I was thinking, too.
02:42 <@preaction> is there something that requires them?
02:42 <@rizen> current ones are ok now, but will eventually be eliminated
02:43 <+perlDreamer> So they should be marked and doc'ed as deprecated.
02:43 <@rizen> yes
02:43 <+perlDreamer> In that case, I'll rework the example in Style Template without them.
02:43 <@rizen> they will eventually be replaced with something else
02:43 <@rizen> like a macro or something
02:44 <+perlDreamer> cool
02:44 < SDuensin> Hi rizen, perlDreamer, preaction.
02:44 <+perlDreamer> thanks, rizen (and you too preaction)
02:44 <+perlDreamer> It's good to know y'all are on the same wavelength.
02:45 <@preaction> that's what JT's magic hammer is for
02:45  * preaction nurses a few bruises
02:46 <+perlDreamer> You should be glad he used the blunt end :)
02:46 <+perlDreamer> Hey, SD.
02:49 < SDuensin> My brain hurts.
02:53 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin: are you using an iPhone?
02:53 < SDuensin> Frack no.
02:53 <+perlDreamer> Then what's the cause of your cerebral distress?
02:54 < SDuensin> I'm trying to learn cross-platform real-time 3D rendering.
02:54 <@preaction> OpenGL? SDL?
02:54 < SDuensin> Depends on the platform.  :-)
02:54 < SDuensin> Ogre3D is the graphics thingie.  Lots of other code involved, too.
02:56 <+perlDreamer> rizen, preaction: what do y'all think of this: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/view-profile
02:56 <+perlDreamer> bug or RFE?
02:56 <@preaction> sounds like a site style issue to me
02:56 <@preaction> oh, it's logged against plainblack.com
02:56 <+perlDreamer> It's small enough that I was thinking we should just stick do it.
02:57 <@rizen> i'll send steve an email
02:57 <+perlDreamer> preaction: it is style based, but I think a lot of the navs and styles suffer from it.
02:57 <@rizen> steve's bug to fix
02:57 <+perlDreamer> okay.
02:58 < SDuensin> Hey rizen - does PB do any charity stuff?
02:58 <@rizen> rarely
02:58 <@rizen> what is it for?
02:59 <+perlDreamer> Do you mean like giving away their software for free? :)
02:59 < SDuensin> Ok.  Just curious.  I donated server space and WebGUI hosting to a new foundation for a guy who died in a triathlon.  They have no idea how to manage it.  Wondered if you'd be interested in kicking them a couple Primers or something.
02:59  * SDuensin is doing his best to teach them.
03:03 <@rizen> some guy died?
03:03 <@rizen> that doesn't seem like much of a charity
03:05 < SDuensin> Yes.  And to be honest, I don't know where they're sending the money they raise.  If I had to guess, it'd be to LiveStrong, but that's just a guess.
03:05 < SDuensin> It's been a rough week.  Dude was a coworker of mine.
03:06 < SDuensin> http://www.kevinmhuntfoundation.org
03:06 < SDuensin> Horribly ugly site.  Done in 2 days by my poor boss who is trying to learn WebGUI as she goes.
03:07 < SDuensin> Hehe - looks like she just figured out two column layouts.  :-)
03:07 <@rizen> i'll have to say i pass.  i'm sure he was a great guy and all, but 14,4000 people die on the planet every day. i can't set that sort of precident
03:07 < SDuensin> That's fine dude.  Never hurts to ask, so I figured I would.  :-)
03:11 < SDuensin> I really hope she changes that "logo".  It screams of Windows Paint.
03:20 <+perlDreamer> Haarg: I found knowmad's template editing bug.
03:20 <+perlDreamer> The Help has an autogenerated list of template parsers, based on the config file.
03:21 <+perlDreamer> It stomps on the config file entry, because it's a reference.
03:21 <@preaction> you're joking
03:21 <+perlDreamer> No
03:21 <@preaction> god damn it
03:21 <@preaction> nice
03:21 <+perlDreamer> I know, I suck
03:22 <+perlDreamer> It's probably not the only one, either.  I'll check the other autogenerated docs as well.
03:27 <+perlDreamer> Macros are okay
03:28 <+perlDreamer> Assets are okay
03:29 <+perlDreamer> Workflow Activities are okay
03:29 <+perlDreamer> It's just the template parsers.
03:29 <+perlDreamer> I didn't make a copy, just dereferenced.
03:29 <+perlDreamer> and then altered $_ inside the loop of a map, which changes the parent, which is what config points to
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04:00 <+perlDreamer> when is 7.3.20 scheduled for release?
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04:06 <+perlDreamer> I'm almost ready to commit a fix
04:06 <+perlDreamer> It looks like it could cause the bug, but I don't see a way for the config variables in one session variable to be leaking into the session var for the next request.
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06:19 <+perlDreamer> preaction: there's no code to prevent you from using the WebGUI database link that I can find.
06:19 <@preaction> it's supposed to
06:19 <@preaction> i thought there was, to prevent exactly what that caused that bug
06:20 <+perlDreamer> there's code to remove it from the select list, but that's it
06:20 <+perlDreamer> if you update the db manually, or hack the form it would work fine.
06:20 <@preaction> we might have to ask martin about it
06:20 <+perlDreamer> I'll try to catch him tomorrow.
06:21 <+perlDreamer> btw, do you know when 7.3.20 is due to be released?
06:22 <@preaction> probably wednesday
06:23 <+perlDreamer> the 4th?
06:23 <@preaction> oh
06:23 <@preaction> uhm... durno then
06:24 <+perlDreamer> You have any plans for the 4th?
06:24 <+perlDreamer> Family, gf, bbq, blow things up?
06:24 <@preaction> nope, i imagine i'll be working
06:37 <+perlDreamer> later
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07:25 < vayde> rizen, you going to be around Sunday night?  I'll be in town.  Wanna grab a brew?
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15:41 < SDuensin> Good morning!
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15:56 < Leon> hi
15:56 < Leon> any one can help me out ?
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16:05 <+Radix_> not in 6 minutes, no
16:05  * SDuensin chuckles
16:07 < ckotil> heh
16:07 < ckotil> i think i got an iPaperWeight
16:07 < ckotil> battery seems like its bad.
16:07 < ckotil> its not going a full day, with minimal use.
16:08 < SDuensin> Dead battery?  That'll be $85 please.
16:08 < ckotil> yarly.
16:08 < SDuensin> You using the WiFi or just letting it sit?
16:09 < ckotil> i turned off wifi and email check.,
16:09 <+Radix_> replacement battery from apple = return the device and they'll solder a new one on for you for $$$
16:09 < ckotil> man..id be so pissed off if they charge me.
16:09 < ckotil> as if i hadnt paid enough already
16:09 < SDuensin> Yea.  Apple announced the battery is $85.95.
16:09 < ckotil> and we learned yesteray about how much this thing costs apple.
16:09 < ckotil> its under $300.
16:09 < SDuensin> I'd think you're well within whatever sad warranty they offer.
16:10 < ckotil> omfg.
16:10 < ckotil> id thihnk since i just got it, they'd give me a nwe phone.
16:11 < ckotil> ya.
16:16 <+Radix_> if they still have stock to give you one
16:21  * SDuensin has a RAZR.  It sucks, but it plays DOOM!
16:21 <+Radix_> I have an o2 atom which rocks.
16:24 < nuba> o2 atoms dont rock, they oxidise
16:26 < nuba> and actually its not o2 atoms, o2 its the entire molecule
16:29 <+Radix_> Umm.. yeah
16:36 < nuba> in fact its all wrong. you write O2, no chemical element is written with the first letter in smallcaps
16:37 < nuba> let me see, did I left anything out of the nitpicking ? 
16:37 < nuba> :)
16:37 <+Radix_> http://www.seeo2.com/product/XdaAtom/template/XdaAtomProductInfo.vm
17:08 -!- Irssi: #webgui: Total of 14 nicks [3 ops, 0 halfops, 2 voices, 9 normal]
17:09 < xdanger> hmm.. Is it possible to edit a CS submission before Approving it?
17:10 < xdanger> We have a user updated list, and sometimes they have badly formated text or something like that... But we have to approve it first so that content managers can edit it...
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19:35 <@rizen> radix, are you here?
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20:09 <+perlDreamer> (Time appropriate greeting), folks
20:48 <+perlDreamer> preaction: can you give me a pointer to the DBI grant code that you mentioned a while ago?
20:55  * perlDreamer hates log file gaps
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00:46 <+perlDreamer> Things are hopping in the channel today
00:46 <+perlDreamer> Must be because of the holiday
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01:26 <+perlDreamer> Hola, SDuensin
01:26 < SDuensin> Yo
01:30 <+perlDreamer> What's up nt he java desktop world?
01:52 < SDuensin> WonderGrid is almost ready to ship!  It's an awesome database editor.
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02:14 < cap10morgan> so, http proxy assets rewrite form fields so they have HttpProxy_ as a prefix
02:14 < cap10morgan> do you basically just have to modify the script that they post to to handle the new names?
02:14 < cap10morgan> or can you turn that rewriting off?
02:15 <+perlDreamer> No idea.
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03:59 <+Radix-wrk> ckotil: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/07/03/iphone_hacking_progress/
04:32 <@preaction> and again i must point out that they are talking about CRACKERS not hackers...
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07:11  * vayde waves to perlDreamer
07:12 <+perlDreamer> yo, vayde!
07:13 <+perlDreamer> The daughter of a friend of mine is taking martial arts.
07:13 <+perlDreamer> "uwe..." something
07:13 < vayde> Cool.  What style?
07:13 <+perlDreamer> Means the formless way?
07:13 <+perlDreamer> Shapeless way?
07:13 <+perlDreamer> Basically, she's going to be a tough street chik
07:14 < vayde> Ude perhaps
07:14 < vayde> good
07:14 < vayde> ladies need to be touch
07:14 < vayde> er tough
07:14 <+perlDreamer> they need both, but only on their terms :)
07:15 < vayde> lol
07:16 < vayde> sadly I've not met an adult woman who hasn't felt she was tossed around or at some guy's mercy at some time in their life
07:17 < vayde> It's nothing sinister.  Men are, on average, larger.  You judge the world by yourself.  Force you think is appropriate is too much for a smaller person.
07:21 <+perlDreamer> Looking at the bug list, you would never guess that we had it down to 6 bugs
07:24 <+perlDreamer> I'm going to crash out.  Catch you later, vayde
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10:00 < nuba> anyone ever got this error when trying to start httpd.modperl ? Fatal error 'Spinlock called when not threaded.' at line 83 in file /usr/src/lib/libpthread/thread/thr_spinlock.c (errno = 2)
10:01 < nuba> this is in a freebsd 5.3-RELEASE running the latest wre
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15:53 < nuba> morning folks, if anyone has any idea on this 'Spinlock called when not threaded.' error, please let me know
15:54 < nuba> i've found about freebsd's /etc/libmap.conf, but it seems it isnt changing anything :/
16:01 <+Radix_> Sorry nuba - never encountered it before
16:02 <+Radix_> I've also never used freebsd tho
16:08 < nuba> ok, thx anyway
16:43 <@rizen> nuba, contact len@ilance.nl
16:43 <@rizen> that's Len Kranendonk, i think you met him at the WUC
16:43 <@rizen> he uses FreeBSD in webgui hosting
16:43 <@rizen> he may have an answer for you
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22:16 < nuba> back
22:17 < nuba> cool, thx rizen, yeah i remember len
22:17 < nuba> very cool guy
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23:48 <+perlDreamer> MrHairGrease!
23:49 <+perlDreamer> Just the guy that I need to talk to.
23:49 <+perlDreamer> MrHairgrease...?
23:50 <+MrHairgrease> perldreamer
23:50 <+MrHairgrease> talk!
23:50 <+perlDreamer> I have some SQLForm questions for you.
23:50 <+MrHairgrease> oh
23:50 <+MrHairgrease> ok
23:50 <+perlDreamer> 1) Where is the code that prevents you from using the WebGUI database.
23:50 <+MrHairgrease> shoot
23:51 <+MrHairgrease> there is no such code
23:51 <+MrHairgrease> the sqlform only drops the default db link from the list
23:51 <+MrHairgrease> so you can use the wg db by creating an extra db link
23:51 <+perlDreamer> Somebody nuked their site using the SQLForm
23:52 <+perlDreamer> http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/webgui-stops-working#wl1NfdrT4VgFU_KC1eg3cQ
23:52 <+MrHairgrease> and they did that by using the default dblink
23:52 <+MrHairgrease> id=0
23:52 <+MrHairgrease> ?
23:52 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
23:52 <+MrHairgrease> i read the report
23:53 <+perlDreamer> Did you read the other bug report about the SQLForm permissions?
23:53 <+MrHairgrease> prolly
23:53 <+MrHairgrease> mostly i skim through the bug reports
23:54 <+perlDreamer> they specified a wildcard in the grant for the database name
23:54 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
23:54 <+perlDreamer> why do permissions need to be checked?
23:54 <+MrHairgrease> i didn't even know that you could do that
23:54 <+perlDreamer> me either
23:55 <+MrHairgrease> b/c if you don't have the right perms
23:55 <+MrHairgrease> wg will fatal error
23:55 <+MrHairgrease> and leave half an asset dangling in the tree
23:55 <+MrHairgrease> and all that crap
23:55 <+perlDreamer> ew.  So you think that the SQLForm should handle the wildcard search?
23:56 <+MrHairgrease> i guess so
23:56 <+MrHairgrease> well
23:56 <+MrHairgrease> actually i think mysql should ditch those wildcards in db names
23:56 <+MrHairgrease> =)
23:56 <+MrHairgrease> or even better
23:56 <+perlDreamer> I think the DBI should provide a way to tell if a user has certain permissions in the database.
23:56 <+MrHairgrease> create a generic meachnism to query perms
23:57 <+MrHairgrease> and return those in one way
23:57 <+MrHairgrease> yeah that too
23:57 <+MrHairgrease> but it doesn't
23:57 <+perlDreamer> no
23:57 <+MrHairgrease> I actually spent a lot of time on figuring out a better way to do it
23:57 <+MrHairgrease> but I failed
23:58 <+perlDreamer> It's really pretty robust, but it has some edge cases.
23:58  * MrHairgrease retract into a corner and cries
23:58 <+MrHairgrease> did you see my googlemaps macro btw?
23:58  * perlDreamer pats MrHairgrease on the head and hands him a scotch on the rocks.
23:58 <+perlDreamer> Yes.
23:58 <@preaction> i personally think we need to get rid of RaiseError in the DBI connections and handle all the errors ourselves (that way it would be possible to recover from things like that)
23:58 <+perlDreamer> Very nice.  I even voted for it.
23:58 <+MrHairgrease> wow
23:59 <+MrHairgrease> recognition =)
23:59 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
23:59 <+MrHairgrease> fatals on sql queries are a pain in the ass
23:59 <+MrHairgrease> otoh we now know when the db's getting messed up =)
23:59 <+perlDreamer> I've been having this idea for a website, and I need exactly that kind of functionality, but wrapped in an Asset.
23:59 <+perlDreamer> The db will mess itself up, without our help.
--- Day changed Thu Jul 05 2007
00:00 <+perlDreamer> db corruption sucks
00:00 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
00:00 <+MrHairgrease> but that' partly due to the lack of referential integrity in the wg schema
00:00 <+MrHairgrease> i don't think there are any foreign keys in the db
00:01 <+perlDreamer> no
00:01 <+perlDreamer> no foreign keys
00:01 <+MrHairgrease> so we have to rely on our leet haxor skills
00:01 <+MrHairgrease> to keep it together
00:01 <+perlDreamer> I need to learn SQL, because I don't know what a foreign key is.
00:01 <+MrHairgrease> and i think we are doing a good job at that
00:01 <+perlDreamer> It could be easier?
00:02 <+MrHairgrease> i hear ya brother
00:02 <+MrHairgrease> i'm in the same league
00:03 <+perlDreamer> Okay, so it sounds like the SQLForm will happily let you shoot yourself in the foot.  No fix
00:03 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
00:03 <+perlDreamer> But we should handle wildcard database names.
00:03 <+perlDreamer> I can write tests for that.
00:04 <+perlDreamer> I'll mock the DBI, and force it to send back data that I can shove into the _dbPermissions sub from SQLForm.
00:04 <+MrHairgrease> it's just almost impossible to detect the actual db's that are in a link
00:04 <+MrHairgrease> ok that'll be cool
00:05 <+MrHairgrease> i'm really very busy with my graduation thingy
00:05 <+perlDreamer> Is it related to your LED paper?
00:05 <+MrHairgrease> but I'll be on my way to France by next monday
00:05 <+MrHairgrease> no
00:05 <+MrHairgrease> tunneljunctions
00:05 <+MrHairgrease> i'll show you some stuff at the wuc
00:06 <+perlDreamer> Cool!
00:06 <+perlDreamer> Maybe I should bring some 1-wire parts, with the SHA-1 inside.
00:06 <+perlDreamer> wait, tunnel junctions.
00:06 <+MrHairgrease> cool
00:06 <+perlDreamer> Are you doing EEPROM/Flash stuff?
00:07 <+MrHairgrease> i won't be bringing parts though
00:07 <+MrHairgrease> just images
00:07 <+perlDreamer> okay
00:07 <+MrHairgrease> you mean for my graduation?
00:07 <+MrHairgrease> relating to the flash stuff
00:07 <+perlDreamer> yes
00:07 <+MrHairgrease> no
00:07 <+MrHairgrease> it's more physics than electronics
00:08 <+perlDreamer> ok
00:09 <+perlDreamer> _databaseLinkHasPrivileges really belongs in DatabaseLink.pm, don't you think?
00:09 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
00:09 <+MrHairgrease> i think i discussed that with jt some day
00:10 <+perlDreamer> On IRC?
00:10 <+MrHairgrease> could be
00:10 <+MrHairgrease> prolly
00:10 <+perlDreamer> we need a dedicated logger in the channel with a search engine.
00:10 <+MrHairgrease> or otherwise on the devlist
00:10 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
00:10 <+MrHairgrease> irc is quicker
00:10 <+perlDreamer> much quicker
00:10 <+MrHairgrease> but i kinda miss the devlist
00:11 <+MrHairgrease> espescially since i'm in another tz
00:11 <+perlDreamer> This is true.
00:11 <+MrHairgrease> and lately i'm not on the channel very much
00:11 <+perlDreamer> I'll throw the question out there, then you can reply and sound all sage and wise since we've already talked it through here :)
00:11 <+MrHairgrease> ha
00:12 <+MrHairgrease> i'll just paste my irc log
00:12 <+MrHairgrease> easy money =)
00:12 <+MrHairgrease> s/money/sageness/
00:13 <+perlDreamer> I don't suppose Joeri is sitting around nearby?
00:13 <+MrHairgrease> no
00:13 <+perlDreamer> It should really be SQL.
00:13 <+MrHairgrease> he isn't on msn either
00:14 <+MrHairgrease> joeri should be sql?
00:14 <+perlDreamer> No, there should be a SQL way of determining user rights.
00:14 <+MrHairgrease> i agree
00:14 <+perlDreamer> One that wraps the internal engine's API.
00:14 <+perlDreamer> in a consistent, external query.
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00:25 <+perlDreamer> bug --
00:25 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: karma bug
00:25 < perlbot> Karma for bug: 1
00:25 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: karma bugs
00:25 < perlbot> Karma for bugs: -2
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05:35 < preaction_> question for those who go to geek meetings (perl mongers, LUG)
05:35 < preaction_> would a porn joke be considered "out of line"?
05:35 < preaction_> i'm thinking making a folder called XXX and putting a bunch of work documents, quipping "That's the name of the folder for stuff I don't like to look at"
05:37 < vayde> I don't consider that out of line, but I'm not yr average geek
05:38 < preaction_> i suppose it might be ... sexist, and we already have a big enough problem with women in the CS field...
05:38 < vayde> I would use that, and far worse in the course of my classes
05:38 < preaction_> i've got a two-hour presentation due in 8 days. i think i'm a little ... screwed
05:39 < preaction_> but i work better under pressure ;)
05:39 < vayde> If I can help, just holler
05:39 < vayde> but I think that remark is pretty tame
05:39 < preaction_> i googled for "perl one-liners" and found a wealth of material, just gotta cut it down and make it flow
05:40 < preaction_> a one-line HTTP server: perl -MIO::All -e 'io(":8080")->fork->accept->(sub { $_[0] < io(-x $1 ? "./$1 |" : $1) if /^GET \/(.*) / })'
05:40 < vayde> nice
05:40 < preaction_> you wouldn't happen to have any favorite modules to use in one-liners?
05:41 < preaction_> i mean, LWP::Simple, CPAN, File::Path perhaps
05:41 < preaction_> ooh, totally forgot about File::Path, I hate having to create deep directories1
05:41 < vayde> not me.  I'm not much of a one liner guy.  I'll ask one of my guys
05:41 < preaction_> perl -MFile::Path -e'mkpath "this/is/a/deep/directory"';
05:42 < vayde> you're doing a presentation on one liners?
05:42 < preaction_> yup
05:42 < vayde> that's pretty cool
05:42 < preaction_> http://madmongers.org/calendar/quick-and-dirty
05:43 < preaction_> if i do nicely i might ask if one or more of the local LUGs would like to hear it (more converts for the fire)
05:43 < vayde> very cool
05:44 < preaction_> i think it's more of a rite-of-passage into complete nerd-dom. trial-by-fire and all that jazz
05:44 < vayde> yeah, well, certain folks we both know like that kind of stuff
05:45 < preaction_> if andy'll be there, he's already given a presentation on this, so i imagine i'll have some experts to ... assist in my... baptism
05:45 < vayde> You'll do fine
05:45 < preaction_> who do you think told me i had to do this ;)
05:45  * vayde nods, rolling his eyes
05:45 < preaction_> it's not the presentation part i'm too worried about, i've got an actor's mentality to public speaking
05:45 < vayde> how much public speaking/presentation experience do you have?
05:45 < vayde> ahh, good
05:45 < preaction_> it's that i'm going to be faking a lot of knowledge i won't have
05:46 < preaction_> but i imagine "i don't know, but i can guess..." will be okay for this group
05:46 < preaction_> or "i don't know, but i know where you can find the answer to that..."
05:46 < vayde> so don't fake it.  present what you know concisely
05:46 < vayde> that will be fine I'm sure
05:47 < vayde> one of the coolest and most liberating things about being a teacher in any capacity is the ability to say 'I don't know'
05:47 < preaction_> a lot of it will be CPAN modules, so there's an out ("look on CPAN for the X::X module")
05:48 < preaction_> but then again, learning while writing this thing is the main reason i'm doing it
05:49 < vayde> should be fun
05:49 < preaction_> i hope so. plus i imagine JT'll be there, so not entirely hostile audience (someone I can bounce bad jokes off of)
05:50 < vayde> Or at least hide behind if the crowd gets too surly.
05:50 < vayde> big dude like that will block many thrown objects
05:51 < preaction_> i dunno, if they start chucking laptops i think i'm going to have to find something female to distract them while i make a break for it
05:51 < preaction_> i'll bring the GF!
05:51 < vayde> Are you in Madison?
05:52 < preaction_> no, Oshkosh is about 90 minutes away
05:52 < vayde> I'll be in town on Sunday
05:53 < vayde> Hmm I'll have to look at a map, if it's not too far off the path, maybe we can grab a brew?
05:53 < preaction_> it's up hwy 151 (60 minutes) until hwy 26 (30 minutes)
05:54 < preaction_> what time would you be thinking?
05:54 < vayde> I'm done about 5-ish
05:55 < vayde> I'll need to eat something, and then head for home
05:55 < preaction_> ah
05:56 < vayde> I'll have some time though.  Just have to be back in time for work on Mon
05:57 < preaction_> iirc i was planning on going to Wild Rose sunday during the day, which would put me closer to madison than oshkosh.
05:58 < preaction_> the issue being my gf would be coming with, and she's not yet of the age to go bar-hopping
05:58 < preaction_> i imagine there're decent bar/grills around madtown though
05:58 < vayde> honestly, I probably shouldn't do a lot of drinking witha 4 hr drive ahead of me
05:58 < preaction_> which would work better anyway
05:58 < vayde> last I heard, my gf is coming along too, we could at least have dinner
05:59 < preaction_> 4 hrs? why do you need to be in madison?
05:59 < vayde> I have students there.
05:59 < preaction_> so once a month or bi-weekly or something?
05:59 < vayde> I don't really want to drive 4 hours each way and spend my only down day in a seminar, but the kids are so dedicated
05:59 < vayde> monthly
06:00 < vayde> at least in theory
06:00 < preaction_> ahh
06:00 < vayde> It was less of a problem when I didn't have 2 jobs
06:00 < vayde> or when the second job was technically IN madison
06:36 < vayde> hey preaction_, did JT finish the new version of the wre?
06:37 < preaction_> i'm not quite sure if it's finished yet, we've been busy
06:37 < preaction_> i think that was his hope this week, but right now he's at the origins games expo thingy
06:37 < preaction_> but it was also his hope last week, and iirc the week before too
06:37 < vayde> hmm, my wre is incompatible with the latest version of wg.  
06:37 < preaction_> 7.4 requires 0.8 i think
06:38 < preaction_> at least, the modules that come with 0.8
06:38 < preaction_> might have to run sbin/testEnvironment.pl
06:38 < vayde> is that whats in the repo right now?  7.4?
06:38 < preaction_> that's the trunk, yes
06:39 < vayde> yeah, that would explain the errors
06:39 < vayde> but wre 0.8 isn't out?
06:39 < preaction_> not that i'm aware of yet
06:39 < preaction_> major changes from what i hear, and the abolishment of a separate windows WRE
06:41 < vayde> wild.  be interested to see how that was accomplished
06:42 < preaction_> i'm more interested in the new features, apparently a perldoc server has been added
06:42 < preaction_> to view perldoc of WebGUI modules
06:42 < vayde> cool
06:42 < vayde> god I miss wG
06:43 < vayde> I keep thinking once things settle down a bit I'll be able to do some more development here
06:43 < preaction_> word. it's hard to believe that just a few weeks ago the bug list was down to 6 :(
06:43 < vayde> lol
06:43 < vayde> I haven't looked at it
06:44 < vayde> any of them with the email password recovery?
06:44 < preaction_> not that i remember
06:44 < vayde> that's nice.  
06:45 < vayde> I can't make heads or tails of the new site.  It's pretty, but I can't find anything.
06:45 < vayde> where's the buglist?
06:45 < preaction_> http://webgui.org/bugs
06:46 < vayde> ahh, now I see
06:46 < vayde> that's the nice thing about wG.  I'd actually like to solve probelms with it, learn more about it
06:46 < vayde> with the crap I'm working on right now.  It's hard to care
06:47 < vayde> It's kinda like diagnosing problems on windows:  Step 1) use something else
06:47 < preaction_> lol
06:48 < vayde> the only good note is it's just temporary.  We all hate it.
06:48 < preaction_> indeed
06:50 < vayde> there we go.  dev environment is back up
06:50 < vayde> now I better go back to the *fun* stuff
06:50 < preaction_> goodluck
06:51 < vayde> you should see the autoloader on this bastard
06:51 < vayde> I'd post it, but that might violate something
06:51 < preaction_> mmmm NDAs
06:51 < preaction_> proprietary systems
06:51 < vayde> no NDA
06:52 < preaction_> trade sekrits?
06:52 < vayde> that kinda surprised me
06:52 < vayde> I'm sure somebody thinks so
06:52 < vayde> they've been surprisingly lax
06:52 < preaction_> i imagine you signed your rights to your code away? like responsible colleges do to professors on fellowship?
06:52 < vayde> no, nothing
06:53 < preaction_> huh
06:53 < vayde> I had to sign more to work with PB than I did to work for usbank
06:53 < vayde> I've signed _nothing_
07:51 < vayde> gf is not coming, but we could still grab dinner if you like preaction_
07:51 < vayde> do you have my cell?
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07:58 < preaction_> uhm, i'd like to but it looks like wild rose is a bit further from madison than I anticipated (2 hrs.), and the idea with going to WR is to introduce the GF to the mother (and hopefully the siblings)
07:58 < preaction_> is it always the first weekend of the month? that's rocky weekend
08:04 < vayde> naw, depends on when all involved are free
08:04 < vayde> there'll be another time
08:04 < vayde> I'll be back on the 12th of August
08:05 < preaction_> was just wondering, if you had a place to stay the Velvet Darkness does their thing the 1,3,5 saturday at 11:30p at the Orpheum
08:05 < preaction_> another time, then
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08:07 < vayde> cool.  I'd come out Sat. night if I had somewhere to stay, but as it is, I'll just drive out early and drive back in late
08:07 < preaction_> ah
08:07 < vayde> I'd stay with my students, but they have dogs, and you know me... delicate
08:07 < preaction_> yes... delicate
08:13 < vayde> http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/incorrect-content#ALpxo5ydXhwsVd9c6ySbuw
08:13 < vayde> that's not much of a bug
08:14 < vayde> recon you can squash it real quick.  I don't have access anymore
08:14 < preaction_> eh, i could if i weren't doing other things
08:14 < vayde> just lettin you know...
08:17 < preaction_> actually that's a wiki page, everybody should be able to change that. and those two tutorials should be in the wiki somewhere already
08:17 < vayde> I'll see what I can do
08:24 < vayde> new site is slicker than snake snot
08:29 < vayde> you ever check out vimperator?
08:30 < preaction_> nope
08:30 < vayde> It's pretty cool.  turns firefox into vim mor ore less
08:31 < vayde> keybindings, commands, etc
08:31 < preaction_> nice
08:31 < vayde> pretty cool, doesn't play nice with wG though apparently.  
08:33 < preaction_> would be interesting, i find myself using vim commands in firefox on a regular basis (space to page down, / to find, ctrl+b to go back a page, etc...)
08:34 < vayde> check it out
08:35 < vayde> actually, it's pretty easy to get it to play with wG now that I find the trick
08:36 < vayde> can I close the bug?  or do I have to tell someone to do it?
08:38 < preaction_> i think you'd have to tell someone to do it
08:39 < vayde> someone other than you?
08:39 < preaction_> nono, i can do it
08:39 < vayde> lol
08:39 < vayde> no worries, sooner or later someone with the power will look at it, and take care of it
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15:36 < SDuensin> Good morning!
15:38 < ckotil> hello
15:40 < SDuensin> Hi ckotil 
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20:32  * pjesi misses news on the frontpage
20:36  * cap10morgan does too
20:46 <@preaction> like release news?
20:59 < pjesi> for instance
20:59 < pjesi> it is now only on the commercial site
21:26 <@preaction> anyone know who wrote the new user invite thing for 7.4? was it perlDreamer?
21:31 <@preaction> as a side note, i like 7.4 and think it will be teh awesome. a lot of RFEs went into this one
21:32 <@preaction> first release in 2 weeks
21:32 <@preaction> maybe 3
22:02  * pjesi does not yet had a look at it
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23:03 < perlmonkey2> Is it possible to do a passthrough on a cgi directory?
23:04 <@preaction> passthrough tells webgui to ignore it, you'd have to tell apache what to do with it, but it might be better to have that directory bypass webgui entirely using a <Directory> or a <Location> directive (either that or you have to do both, i forget which)
23:39 < perlmonkey2> What do you mean by directory bypass?  
23:48 <@preaction> perlmonkey2: http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/how-to-get-passthruurls-to-work
23:49 <@preaction> i imagine you can SetHandler cgi-script .pl .cgi after SetHandler None (to remove the mod_perl handler)
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23:51 < perlmonkey2> Weird, it was the sethandler none that worked.  I had sethandler PerlScript and that just gave me the .pl code.
23:52 <@preaction> that's an apache issue, #apache can help, but might i suggest SetHandler cgi-script .pl
23:52 < perlmonkey2> preaction: no, sethandler none fixed it.  now it works.  just strange.
--- Day changed Fri Jul 06 2007
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00:00 <+perlDreamer> preaction: you were looking for me?
00:01 <@preaction> do you have any idea why the value for a required on registration element would be "HASH(0xblah)"?
00:01 <@preaction> i've got one site from unitedknowledge that's doing this
00:01 <@preaction> and i have so little information about what's going on there that i can't figure it out
00:02 <@preaction> i can't reproduce
00:02 <+perlDreamer> Is that part of User Invite, or the password recovery stuff?
00:02 <@preaction> http://arjan.unitedknowledge.nl/?op=auth;method=createAccount <- this
00:03 <@preaction> i noticed some weird code in the createAccount sub: $emailField = {}; but later it's treated as a scalar (when getting the e-mail from the invite code)
00:04 <+perlDreamer> that might explain the email address, but not the second field.
00:06 <+perlDreamer> Hm.  With user invites turned off, the hash ref leaks through.
00:06 <+perlDreamer> That's a bug.
00:07 <@preaction> oh, it happens when it's turned OFF... god
00:08 <+perlDreamer> How do you pull an old rev out of SVN?
00:08 <@preaction> svn up -r<revision>
00:08 <@preaction> i was thinking that too, it might be a bug already fixed
00:10 <+perlDreamer> No, I'm running on head and it's still in there.
00:11 <+perlDreamer> And there's the other bug, stomping on the required fields.
00:12 <@preaction> wtf why does it not show up on my site?
00:12 <+perlDreamer> Do you have user invitations turned on?
00:12 <@preaction> i tried it turned on, i tried it turned off
00:12 <@preaction> neither
00:13 <+perlDreamer> what rev are you running?
00:13 <+perlDreamer> And do you have profile fields set as required?
00:14 <@preaction> i'm running HEAD, and i set them as show on registration, i'll check required
00:14 <@preaction> email is: visible, editable, required, and show at registration
00:15 <+perlDreamer> The fix is very simple
00:15 <+perlDreamer> vim Auth.pm
00:15 <+perlDreamer> s/emailAddress = \{\}/emailAddress = undef/
00:16 <@preaction> oh god, i couldn't see it because i had fixed it already
00:16 <+perlDreamer> Dude, you're psychic!
00:16 <@preaction> christ...
00:16 <+perlDreamer> Commit the fix and remember to chastise me thoroughly in the commit log
00:17 <@preaction> k
01:41 <+perlDreamer> why does Config->set have to write the config file?
01:47 < nuba> whoa, i've just received the June edition of IEEE's computer magazine
01:47 < nuba> there's a nice article about this tool called Koala
01:47 <+perlDreamer> what is it?
01:47 < nuba> being developed by IBM, targetting web scripting for the masses
01:48 < nuba> you go to a website, use it, fill a form, submit, do stuff, etc.
01:48 < nuba> all that gets recorded by a firefox sidebar
01:48 < nuba> in plaintext format
01:48 < nuba> you can share that script, edit it, etc
01:48 < nuba> it recognizes the places in which you have to fill for stuff and asks the user for it
01:49 <+perlDreamer> like HTTP::Recorder ?
01:49 < nuba> really cool when it comes to automating using websites
01:49 < nuba> from what i understand, HTTP::Recorder works like a proxy, right ?
01:50 <+perlDreamer> Yes.  If you combine it with WWW::Mechanize, it would do what you're talking abuot
01:50 <+perlDreamer> but requires hacker-level proficiency, not typical-user
01:50 < nuba> but the researcher there states the goal of this tool is to help "small teams easily automate their own idiosyncratic workflows"
01:50 < nuba> and to build a community of people sharing these automations on the web
01:50 < nuba> yeah im familiar with www::mechanize
01:52 < nuba> you really have to see the screenshots of the sidebar with the script to get the gist of it
01:52 <+perlDreamer> Is it online publicly?
01:53 < nuba> its sooo like stuff my parents would be able to use
01:53 < nuba> just a sec..
01:54 < nuba> yeah here you have it: http://www.computer.org/portal/site/computer/menuitem.eb7d70008ce52e4b0ef1bd108bcd45f3/index.jsp?&pName=computer_level1&path=computer/homepage/June07&file=invisible.xml&xsl=article.xsl&;jsessionid=GN2rhtFcSdyv4pLTT1TCdBH4v9vm3ngJT0j81y1kLvL29kZ9g2vS!1599257154
01:54 < nuba> or http://tinyurl.com/3eyk4x
01:55 < nuba> i went to IBM's website right away but its not yet available 
01:56 <+perlDreamer> You're right.  It's very social.   Kind of like a scripted, interactive HOWTO.
01:56 <+perlDreamer> But I also see where it could be used to browser level test automation.
01:56 < nuba> notice in one of the images, this toolbar: "open in sidebar" "run" "edit" "duplicate" etc.
01:57 < nuba> and below the script, the comments from other usres
01:57 < nuba> users*
01:57 < nuba> this pic: http://tinyurl.com/3a5vh8
01:58 < nuba> yeah this would make writing automated tests also very easy
01:58 < nuba> i have some problems with www::mechanize, mostly because of javascript editing the dom
01:58 <+perlDreamer> The interface reminds of VB macros in Microsoft Office.
01:59 <+perlDreamer> Yeah, I've looked a little at Selenium to handle problems like that, but it seems like a steep learning curve.
02:00 < nuba> well when that happens with me i have to grab the html from the mech, edit it as needed myself, and feed it again to the mech
02:00 < nuba> so that means coupling www::mechanize with firefox's webdeveloper and livehttpheader extensions
02:00 < nuba> its really messy
02:02 < nuba> looking at selenium now
02:05 <+perlDreamer> Doea Koala require installing a plug-in, or does it work entirely in Javascript?
02:08 < nuba> well as of yet it seems like a firefox extension to me
02:09 < nuba> theres a nice video in the ibm website too
02:09 <+perlDreamer> I'll have to check that out at home.
02:09 <+perlDreamer> No multimedia at $dayJob
02:09 < nuba> heh i'll stop now
02:10 < nuba> heh btw im by no means whatsoever involved with IBM or the koala initiative etc. etc.
02:10 < nuba> :)
02:10 <+perlDreamer> Hey, it does sound very cool.
02:10 <+perlDreamer> I'd rather write koala than Selenium/Mech code any day.
02:10 <+perlDreamer> It's natural language.
02:11 <+perlDreamer> That means we could get WebGUI users to record bug statements and then publish them.
02:11 <+perlDreamer> No more trying to guess how they did something.
02:11 <+perlDreamer> Then those bugs become part of the permanent record for wG.
02:11 < nuba> yeah its amazing what you could do with that
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15:39 < SDuensin> Good morning.
17:12 <+Radix_> evenin'
17:12 < SDuensin> Hi Radix_ 
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17:50 <+perlDreamer> Morning folks
17:51 <@preaction> morning
17:54 <+perlDreamer> I noted your commt from last night, preaction
17:54 <+perlDreamer> You forgot to chastise me :)
17:54 <@preaction> meh
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18:36 <+crythias> and then I said to her... Necklace? I thought you said Perl Module...
18:37 <+perlDreamer> That's how you always get the girls, crythias.
18:37 <+crythias> Somehow, "Let me insert my module in your filesystem" just doesn't seem to be an aphrodisiac with most women.
18:38 <+perlDreamer> no, filesystems are about storage.
18:38 <+perlDreamer> They want to be a module in your kernel, not some peripheral.
18:38 <+crythias> "I promise it's taint safe"
18:39 <+crythias> well, as long as I can insmod or kldmod
18:39 <+perlDreamer> So what's up in the BSD-using WebGUI world?
18:40 < nuba> suffering
18:40 < nuba> with thread libs and modperl crashing
18:40 < nuba> > Fatal error 'Spinlock called when not threaded.' at line 83 in file /usr/src/lib/libpthread/thread/thr_spinlock.c (errno = 2)
18:40 <+crythias> well, what with it using ImageMagick.
18:41 < nuba> ?
18:41 <+crythias> grr
18:41 <+perlDreamer> It's only 3 weeks 'til the 7.4 WebGUI and 0.8 WRE release.
18:41 <+crythias> oh?
18:41 <+perlDreamer> Then it will start using GraphicsMagick instead
18:41 <+perlDreamer> Yes
18:41 <+crythias> I spose I should update my faq
18:44 < nuba> no shit!
18:44 < nuba> its gone!!! :o
18:44 <+perlDreamer> Serious, nuba.
18:44 <+perlDreamer> Huh?
18:44 <+perlDreamer> What do you mean?
18:44 < nuba> its been three days since this was kicking my ass
18:44 <+perlDreamer> mod_perl stuff on BSD?
18:44 < nuba> oh damn
18:44 < nuba> not really, its still here
18:44 < nuba> ugh
18:45 < nuba> yes, mod_perl, threads, freebsd...
18:46 < nuba> now its not producing that Spinlock error anymore
18:46 < nuba> its only silently segfaulting
18:46 < nuba> aint it lovely?
18:46 <+perlDreamer> Is switching to a different BSD or Linux an option?
18:46 < nuba> this is with the 7.2 wre, btw
18:46 < nuba> is gonna be, if it continues like this
18:47 < nuba> wre on linux has always been smooth for me
18:48 <+perlDreamer> I haven't used the WRE yet.  I've always used Fedora's packages.
18:48 < nuba> with freebsd the install is all about "ok, lets find out about what went wrong this time" moments
18:48 < nuba> at least for me
18:51 < nuba> ok, this is looking good
18:51 < nuba> now for the record, if anyone else gets stuck on this
18:51  * perlDreamer suggests a wiki page
18:51 <+perlDreamer> instead of an IRC log
18:52 < nuba> hmm can be
18:52 <+perlDreamer> It _is_more work, but you'll reach a whole lot more people that way.
18:53 < nuba> true
18:53 <+perlDreamer> Make you a deal.  If you'll share the fix, I can make the wiki page.
18:55 < nuba> im already at the wiki, thx anyway :)
18:56 < nuba> where would freebsd-specific notes go there ? a new wiki page, or as a section into the http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/wre-building one?
18:57 <+perlDreamer> I would make a new page.  WRE-Building-on-BSD
18:57 < nuba> k
18:58 < nuba> these I have here are just are just scattered notes, no text structure or much coment, is that fine ?
18:58 < nuba> i figure its a good seed
18:58 <+perlDreamer> Sure.
18:58 < nuba> if someone wants to build upon it later
18:59 <+perlDreamer> The new version may make the info unnecessary, but it will help people today, and who don't want to upgrade yet.
19:03 <+perlDreamer> preaction: ping
19:03 <@preaction> ACK!
19:03 <+perlDreamer> Can you please move this http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/webguiuser-has-no-way-to-get-a-user-when-you-only-know-their-username
19:03 <+perlDreamer> to the RFE section?
19:04 <@preaction> k
19:05 <+perlDreamer> thanks
19:06 <@preaction> i imagine assigning it a difficulty of 1 would be prudent, since the patch seems stable
19:07 <+perlDreamer> indeed.
19:07 <+perlDreamer> In fact, maybe someone with SVN access will add it himself.  Perhaps even write test code for it.
19:07 <+perlDreamer> But it has to be an RFE for that ;)
19:07 < nuba> no words for how im happy after getting modperl to act straight on freebsd :)
19:08 < nuba> they joy of bugfixing :)
19:08 <+perlDreamer> Should I be worried that it took 3 days for an email to the WebGUI dev list to come through?
19:08 < nuba> or rather, circunventing
19:20 <@preaction> i just nudged spectre, i think there's still a problem with the cron code
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19:25 < nuba> im so lucky
19:25 < nuba> getting an error with spectre now
19:25 < nuba> root@aviva# date
19:25 < nuba> Fri Jul  6 08:19:25 UTC 2007
19:25 < nuba> root@aviva# perl spectre.pl --run
19:25 < nuba> Cannot determine local time zone
19:25 < nuba> should I fill a bug ?
19:25 <+perlDreamer> That may not be a WebGUI bug, but a DateTime bug.
19:26 < ckotil> we're encountering a bug with date time, not webgui related tho
19:26 <+perlDreamer> do share :)
19:26 < nuba> it triggers here
19:26 < nuba> 211:            POE::Kernel->run();
19:27 < nuba> leaves the spectre.pl code here
19:27 < nuba> main::(./spectre.pl:107):               Spectre::Admin->new($config, $debug);
19:27 < ckotil> im not sure of the specifics.
19:27 < nuba> im trying with the machine's date not set to UTC
19:31 < nuba> ok, doing this..
19:31 < nuba> root@aviva# cp /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Sao_Paulo /etc/localtime
19:31 < nuba> root@aviva# perl ./spectre.pl --run
19:31 < nuba> it works fine
19:32 < nuba> is that a bug?
19:32 <+perlDreamer> Only for the operating system.
19:33 < nuba> i see
19:52 < nuba> i know this may look dumb, but how do i add a new topic to the wiki ?
19:52 < nuba> i tried addind a link to the toc and work from there, but it didnt worked
19:52 <+perlDreamer> It's not dumb.  It's obfuscated.
19:52 <+perlDreamer> Search for a page
19:52 <+perlDreamer> The search results page will give you a link to add a new page.
19:52 < nuba> ok. thx
20:02 <+perlDreamer> preaction: is that RFE considered "approved"?
20:02 <@preaction> i don't know, while i would approve it, i don't know what TMRFE will say to it
20:02 <+perlDreamer> well, I have it all prepped, including testing code.
20:02 <+perlDreamer> I'll wait till he weighs in 
20:07 <+perlDreamer> Anyone know cap10morgan's real name?
20:09 < nuba> added http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/wre-building-on-freebsd-5.3 to the wiki
20:17 <+perlDreamer> Thanks, nuba!
20:18 <+perlDreamer> ckotil: you may want to read that article, since he also had lftp building problems.
20:24 < nuba> bbiaw
21:53 <+perlDreamer> lunch, then Transformers.  cya later
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23:37 < ckotil> ah, thanks.
23:38 < ckotil> transformers rockd!
23:41 < nuba> it transformed me
23:41 < nuba> in a dissatisfied moviegoer
23:41 < nuba> :/
23:42 < nuba> i think it didnt live up to my expectations as one who watched transformer toons as a kid
23:43 < nuba> dunno
23:44 < nuba> i felt like the trailers i've seen were better than the movie (!)
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00:26 < ckotil> heh
00:26 < ckotil> heading home.
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08:34 <@preaction> Radix_: you around? have you heard anything good or bad about the Nokia N75 phone?
08:40 <+Radix_> Hiya
08:41 <+Radix_> I really don't know much about nokia smartphone's myself.  I went windows mobile years ago and haven't looked back :)  I like reading ebooks too much.
08:41 <@preaction> sup
08:42 <@preaction> yeah, it'd be nice to get a WM5 phone, but i also have to think about what plainblack will buy me
08:42 <+Radix_> Ahh.. salary sacrificing for it or something like that?
08:43 <@preaction> no, i got a raise for taking on the responsibility of being on-call
08:43 <@preaction> so they'll pay for a phone/plan
08:43 <@preaction> within reason
08:43 <+Radix_> heh.. k
08:43 <@preaction> they won't pay for an iphone, but a $50 i'm sure i can convince vrby
08:43 <@preaction> i got the financing for my house, so i'll be broke for a few months because of the down payment
08:44 <@preaction> unfortunately, when i can't even make calls because the damn antenna is gone on my motorola 8200
08:44 <+Radix_> doh
08:44 <@preaction> plus, it'd be very very nice to find a phone with bluetooth DUN
08:44 <+Radix_> sony ericson make some nice phones, but they're not really smartphones
08:44 <@preaction> nokia N75 has it, but i've been reading these reviews saying that the battery life is rather low (it says 4 hours of talk, 8 days of standby, but these reviewers say less)
08:45 <@preaction> doesn't have to be very smart
08:45 <@preaction> i need: mp3, bluetooth DUN, link with any OS
08:46 <@preaction> and apparently branded phones are crap, but that's about all you can get in the US
08:46 <+Radix_> my gf has the sony ericson k800i and is pretty happy with it
08:46 <@preaction> http://www.myrateplan.com/iphone_compare/ <- i've been looking at this thing
08:47 <@preaction> the ericson W810i is on there, and that seems nice
08:47 <@preaction> except for the no high-speed data (EDGE / HDsomething)
08:47 <+Radix_> hers has a 3.2mp camera which takes some pretty good shots
08:47 <@preaction> jesus
08:49 <@preaction> it's a camera that happens to be a phone
08:50 <+Radix_> it's actually a pretty decent phone too
08:50 <@preaction> yeah, it does look nice, would work for just about all i need, now to find a carrier
08:50 <+Radix_> We don't really have anything faster than edge here tho, so don't know about hsdpa
08:56 <@preaction> sometimes i swear the america gets shafted because of our system of "phone goes with network plan"
08:57 <@preaction> http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n95-1716.php <- holy crap me wanty!
08:58 <@preaction> which is, of course, $700 for the phone
09:09 <+Radix_> They have a phone/plan combo here too.. which is how most people buy stuff.. but you can buy a phone outright as well - it just costs a bit more
09:09 <+Radix_> especially for the higher end phones, as the lower ones get subsidized a lot
09:21 <@preaction> i'm tempted to wait until open moko is released on a phone
09:21 <@preaction> a free OS for mobile phones would be awesome
09:21 <+Radix_> heh
09:25 <@preaction> it's like we're at the cusp of a mobile computing revolution, and it'd be stupid to try to find a decent one until the dust settles
09:26 <@preaction> on one end, you have the iphone, on another end, the neo1973, and you've got every other company pushing to get towards the iphone
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00:02 <+perlDreamer> Does anyone know why WebGUI::Storage::Image doesn't recoginize tiff's or bmp's as image files?
00:04 <+MrHairgrease> no
00:04 <+MrHairgrease> ther just not is some array in trhat file
00:04 <+MrHairgrease> but why they aren't i do not know
00:07 <+perlDreamer> Dude, this cannot be.  I thought you knew everything?!
00:07 <+MrHairgrease> i do
00:07 <+MrHairgrease> but tomorrow i'll be off to France
00:07 <+MrHairgrease> so i'm on vacation
00:07 <+MrHairgrease> ask me again in three weeks =)
00:07 <+perlDreamer> You have a good vacation, Martin.  You've earned it.
00:08 <+perlDreamer> Drink some great wine and eat some stinky cheese.
00:09 <+MrHairgrease> i hate cheese
00:09 <+MrHairgrease> but i'll compensate with some extra wine
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00:59 <@rizen> nuba, r u here?
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03:32 <+Radix-wrk> http://video.on.nytimes.com/?fr_story=f390265dcbb9e1f1da97a69637e921d39b6c99aa - iPhone: the Musical
03:47 <@rizen> that's hillarious
03:56 <+Radix-wrk> :)
03:57 <+Radix-wrk> He seems to do a good assessment of the pro's and con's too :)
03:57 <+Radix-wrk> you got one yet JT?
03:57 <@rizen> well at least of the perceived pros and cons
03:57 <@rizen> yup
03:57 <@rizen> got it on iphone friday
03:57 <+Radix-wrk> heh
03:57 <+Radix-wrk> Got root access yet?
03:58 <@rizen> no, don't care to
03:58 <@rizen> not at least until people learn how to install applications on it
03:58 <+Radix-wrk> not even curious? :)
03:58 <@rizen> last week i was on site at a convention that one of our clients was running, and i took the iphone
03:58 <@rizen> but i left my laptop in the room
03:59 <@rizen> while on the convention floor i used the iphone to look up informaiton on the web, check the status of some web sites, keep in touch with my staff and convention folks through email and phone
03:59 <@rizen> i took notes of software issues, kept all my appointments with the calendar
03:59 <@rizen> woke myself up each morning with the built in alarm clock
03:59 <+Radix-wrk> cool
04:00 <@rizen> and took pictures of the convention attendees
04:00 <@rizen> i can honestly say, that the iphone was AWESOME for this
04:00 <+Radix-wrk> Do you guys have data charges in the US for web browsing/email/etc?
04:00 <@rizen> not a single problem
04:00 <@rizen> it's built in to the cell phone
04:00 <@rizen> unlimited data transfer
04:00 <@rizen> built into the plan i mean
04:01 <+Radix-wrk> What kind of plan is that?
04:01 <+Radix-wrk> cost?
04:02 <@rizen> my wife and i both have iphones, and we get 400 SMS messages, 1400 anytime minutes, free in-network calling, unlimited nights and weekends, and unlimited data transfer for $130 (total for the 2 phones)
04:02 <@rizen> $130/month
04:03 <+Radix-wrk> Hmm.. expensive plan
04:03 <@rizen> expensive compared to a regular cell phone plan
04:04 <@rizen> but cheap compared to most PDA / Smartphone plans
04:04 <@rizen> at least in the US
04:04 <@rizen> don't know about abroad
04:04 <@rizen> most smartphone plans don't have unlimited data
04:05 <@rizen> and most only come with 100 sms messages
04:05 <@rizen> for that price
04:05 <+Radix-wrk> Ahh k.. that sounds more like it is here then
04:13 <@rizen> i went to a wedding this weekend where half of the people there were from oz
04:13 <@rizen> the groom is a friend of mine from sydney
04:14 <@rizen> but people came in from all over 
04:15 <+Radix-wrk> We get around :)
04:15 <+Radix-wrk> Besides.. it's cold and wet here.. so of course we'd want to go north :)
04:31 <+Radix-wrk> http://www.gearlive.com/news/article/q307-how-to-use-irc-on-the-iphone/
04:33 <@rizen> requires your local pc to be on and in range
04:34 <+Radix-wrk> true
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07:56 < sstanvir> hello!
07:56 < rizen_> howdy
07:56 < sstanvir> how r u doing?
07:57 < rizen_> terrible, and you?
07:57 < sstanvir> haha..
07:57 < sstanvir> i dont know how I am now ...;)
07:57 < sstanvir> i am having serious problem with webGUI cache
07:58 < sstanvir> r u in the mood of discussion ?
07:58 < rizen_> i'll see what i can do
07:58 < sstanvir> great
07:58 < rizen_> be warned that i don't really do support on this channel...but we'll see
07:59 < sstanvir> thats enough.. thnx
07:59 < sstanvir> the problem is..
07:59 < sstanvir> our customer is always complaining that +
07:59 < sstanvir> he is always gets old content (from our server that uses webGUI)
07:59 < sstanvir> we setup the "prevent proxy-caching"
08:00 < sstanvir> +
08:00 < sstanvir> but now its like.. +
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08:00 < sstanvir> when we refresh a page.. it still shows the old content+
08:00 < sstanvir> it only shows the new content when we close the browser +
08:00 < sstanvir> and reopen it
08:00 < sstanvir> (browser = IE)
08:01 < sstanvir> what should I do now?
08:02 < rizen_> what version do you use?
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08:03 < sstanvir> 7.0.6
08:05 < rizen_> that's the problem
08:05 < sstanvir> ?
08:05 < rizen_> 7.3.18 and above has all cache problems fixed
08:06 < rizen_> there's no easy way to backport them to 7.0
08:07 < sstanvir> hmm 
08:07 < sstanvir> I am afraid. management can't afford to setup new version of webGUI at the moment
08:07 < sstanvir> it's a always up server ..
08:08 < sstanvir> isn't there any patch or something like that?
08:08 < rizen_> i just said no
08:08 < rizen_> and you don't need to set up a new server
08:08 < rizen_> you just need to upgrade
08:08 < sstanvir> hmm
08:09 < sstanvir> problem is original sources have been changed to meet requirements..
08:10 < rizen_> well if you want to try and patch it yourself you can
08:11 < rizen_> the changes were made in lib/WebGUI.pm
08:11 < rizen_> and lib/WebGUI/Session/Http.pm
08:11 < rizen_> i think that's it
08:11 < sstanvir> ah.. cool
08:11 <+Radix-wrk> rizen: is wg 7.4 going to have those changes to allow users to change their passwords easier?  (without involving entering in profile fields like 7.3 does?)
08:11 < rizen_> if you search through https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/WebGUI
08:11 < rizen_> you might be able to find the specific patches made
08:11 < rizen_> yes
08:12 <+Radix-wrk> cool.. just checking :)
08:12 <+Radix-wrk> We're still using 7.08 because of that ourselves
08:13 < sstanvir> ok rizen, I will pass on the info to my team lead.. 
08:14 < sstanvir> lets see if it works patching  lib/WebGUI.pm and lib/WebGUI/Session/Http.pm
08:14 < sstanvir> thank u very much
08:15 < rizen_> why would you change the core of WebGUI/
08:15 < rizen_> ?
08:16 < sstanvir> well.. i dont know much.. but
08:16 < sstanvir> like instead of webGUI authentication method.. some other modules have been made 
08:16 < sstanvir> i guess not much change.. 
08:16 < sstanvir> but drop by drop it made huge changes
08:17 < rizen_> yeah, and it sounds like you used plugin points
08:17 < rizen_> and if that's true
08:17 < rizen_> then there's no problem
08:17 < sstanvir> i guess so
08:18 <+Radix-wrk> any authentication modules the rest of us could benefit from? :)
08:22 < sstanvir> :)
08:23 < sstanvir> actually its nothing special ..
08:24 < sstanvir> just changed too add some function for user validation or password recovery methods..
08:59 <+Radix-wrk> http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BeyondElvisEinsteinAndMortNewProgrammingStereotypesForWeb20.aspx
09:02 <+Radix-wrk> hehe.. I'm right at the end in that - the "Not-The-Sysadmin" guy :)
09:13 <+Radix-wrk> On a related note: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/33210
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15:49 < SDuensin> Good morning!
15:53 < ckotil> good morning
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20:26 < Khaytsus> preaction: Remember my "asses have disapeared" issue from a week ago?  It's mysteriously fixed.
20:26 < Khaytsus> One clue I've gotten is someone said "I went to your page, went to register, filled it out, got the email, and when I clicked the link to verify, the page was blank"
20:26 < Khaytsus> And that was ~7 days ago
20:27 < Khaytsus> So my guess is some process involved in that did some maintenance or something.....  I've disabled anonymous registration for now.
20:27 <@rizen> nuba, are you around?
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22:17 < nuba> rizen: around?
22:18 <@rizen> yeah, on phone...be with you in a min
22:18 < nuba> ok, bbiab, relocating..
22:20 <@rizen> i'm back when you are
22:20 < nuba> hey
22:20 < nuba> im @ university atm, will be back at home later today
22:20 < nuba> whats up?
22:21 <@rizen> was wondering what the status of the maps asset was....do you think you'll be finished by the feature freeze date (July 2)
22:21 <@rizen> July 20
22:21 < nuba> i hope so
22:22 < nuba> whats the real deadline, for me to submit this to you ?
22:22 < nuba> i understand you want to launch 7.4 onjuly 20, isn't it so ?
22:23 <@rizen> yes...july 20
22:23 <@rizen> that's the real deadline
22:24 < nuba> getting this to you on july 20's noon time would be ok ?
22:25 <@rizen> yup
22:26 < nuba> awesome. will keep it in mind, of course the sooner the better :)
22:27 < nuba> i've got a couple of gmaps ebooks to boost me up to speed
22:28 < nuba> so im confident i'll make it in time for the deadline
22:28 <@rizen> sweet
22:28 <@rizen> i really want to use it on webgui.org
22:28 <@rizen> so webgui users can stick a pin in it for wherever they are and we'll know how far reaching the community is
22:29 < nuba> that'd be rad!
22:29 <@rizen> it would also be neat to see if there are other users local to yourself
22:29 <@rizen> so in my case, how many webgui users in wisconsin
22:29 <@rizen> or in your case, brazil
22:29 <@preaction> rizen: the new 7.4 password recovery, should it be possible to turn it off? or should it always be "email" unless it is "profile field"?
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22:30 <@rizen> it should be "off", "email", or "profile based"
22:30 <@rizen> that way we can also add others later if we want
22:30 <@rizen> and some sites don't want you to get back in if you lost your account
22:30 <@preaction> because either this patch wasn't finished or whoever wrote it was being durned lazy...
22:30 <@rizen> that sux
22:30 <@preaction> eh, to be expected
22:31 <@rizen> the good news is that whomever wrote it doesn't work here anymore, and therefore we don't have to put up with crap from them
22:33 < nuba> huh
22:35 <@rizen> nothing for you to worry about nuba
22:35 <@rizen> just an RFE for 7.4 that one of our former employees only half wrote, but that said was done
22:37 <@preaction> yeah, this is what'll take my day today...
22:41 <@preaction> if i'd like the WebGUI::Operation::Settings->www_editSettings to be able to display an error message, knowing that the settings that comprise the form can come from anywhere, would i have to use a session scratch variable (like WebGUI::Asset->www_edit currently does)?
22:42 <@preaction> nevermind, i think i have a good idea
22:50 < nuba> bbiaw
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23:48 < Khaytsus> preaction: You notice I mentioend my assetts problem went away earlier? :)
23:49 <@preaction> yup
23:49 < Khaytsus> Go figure
23:50 < Khaytsus> DAMN work cache..  Just gave me a scare, I thought it was broke again
23:59 <@jamestolley> anyone have an idea how I might change the background color on locked assets?
23:59 <@preaction> in the asset manager i hope?
--- Day changed Tue Jul 10 2007
00:00 <@jamestolley> I don't think so... I think it's to show up on each page, if the thing is locked... it looked hairy to me..
00:04 <@preaction> it might mean when admin mode is on, notice the grey bar above each asset on the page? that's encased in a div. you should be able to edit the template to change the background color of that div
00:04 <@preaction> it doesn't sound like a good idea to me, but whatevz
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01:42 <@jamestolley> ... is this your understanding as well  ? That these are the places, and nowhere in the code, where these background-colors need to be edited (to be dynamiuc, of course)
01:42 <@jamestolley> oops!
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01:43 <+perlDreamer> rizen: If WebGUI wins the community choice award, are you coming out to Portland to accept it?
01:45 < nuba> sourceforge's community awards are great to raise awareness about a given software
01:45 < nuba> im crossing my fingers for webgui
01:46 <+perlDreamer> I'll wear my supply of WebGUI T-shirts to the conference.
01:46 < nuba> i can see a ultramegaboost in the community size if that happens
01:48 < nuba> cause that means appearing in all sorts of medias
01:48  * perlDreamer hopes for more testing whackos
01:48 < nuba> in all sorts of places
01:48 <+perlDreamer> we need to bootstrap the automated browser testing of WebGUI
01:49 < nuba> perlDreamer: was it you who i've talked with about koala ?
01:49 <+perlDreamer> Yes.
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01:55 < nuba> in a broader sense, generally speaking, programs which have a GUI could have as well means to report their GUI's features and resources so that they could be programmed. a specific instance of this would be the browser reporting all "hotspots" of a html document being rendered, be it html, embedded plugins, etc.
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01:56 <+perlDreamer> kind of makes you wonder if that's already been done, automatic GUI testing, rather than the subset of automated browser testing.
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01:56 < nuba> if you think about koala, its just at the browser level, just at the html
01:57 < nuba> i wonder when we would see something of which koala would be a specialization
01:57 <+perlDreamer> It's more than HTML, because it's automating clicks and other operations, isn't it?
01:59 < nuba> yes
01:59 < nuba> but i bet it wont support clicking on a embedded flash in a page
02:00 < nuba> or java applets
02:00 < nuba> etc.
02:00 < nuba> i used to do lots of automation with this tool long ago http://www.networkautomation.com/automate/interface.htm
02:00 < nuba> but that was more like the usual recorded macros thing
02:09 <@rizen> stupid irc client
02:17 < Radix__> perlDreamer: koala could work on IE as well if it worked well with IETab
02:23 <+perlDreamer> What's IETab?  Does it read and interpret FireFox extensions?
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05:06 <+Radix-wrk> preaction: http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/09/openmoko-neo-1973-and-advanced-dev-kit-finally-for-sale/
05:07 <@preaction> damnit damnit damnit
05:07 <@preaction> you'll never guess what i just bought...
05:08 <+Radix-wrk> heh
05:08 <+Radix-wrk> What?
05:08 <+Radix-wrk> the openmoko website is dead anyway.. you'd never get an order in :)
05:08 <@preaction> samsung upstage
05:09 <@preaction> i've got a thirty-day grace period
05:09 <@preaction> but it's the only phone i've found that supports bluetooth DUN, and is a half-way decent mp3 player
05:09  * Radix-wrk googles.
05:09 <+Radix-wrk> looks chunky
05:10 <@preaction> how so? this thing is tiny
05:10 <+Radix-wrk> 3.5mm jack - that's good
05:10 <@preaction> 3.5cm by 9cm by .6cm about
05:10 <+Radix-wrk> Oh.. sorry.. with the battery wallet
05:11 <@preaction> yeah, that's a little bigger
05:11 <+Radix-wrk> Okay.. so it's two sided with a button switching between them?
05:11 <@preaction> yup
05:11 <@preaction> only slightly annoying
05:12 <+Radix-wrk> candy bar design.. hmm.. looks nice enough
05:13 <+Radix-wrk> Dunno about samsung tho
05:13 <+Radix-wrk> How easy is it to connect to your pc and get files on/off it?
05:14 <@preaction> it's decently easy, the samsung drivers appear to support everything standard windows
05:14 <@preaction> haven't tried OSX yet
05:14 <+Radix-wrk> cool
05:14 <@preaction> plus they have a not-quite-intuitive music syncing program (not as good as itunes by a long chalk)
05:14 <+Radix-wrk> Never used a samsung phone myself.. but I know my mum's LG syncing software is diabolical
05:15 <+Radix-wrk> every company does it differently :)
05:15 <@preaction> yeah, it'd be best if they all just decided to support the One Standard (the USB file sync and/or bluetooth file sync)
05:16 <+Radix-wrk> All should have mini usb connectors imho :)
05:16 <@preaction> haven't figured out if it supports bluetooth A2DP yet, there's another phone at spring that does, but it's as big as my old phone (a fracking brick)
05:18 < nuba> why isn't webgui listed here: http://freenode.net/primary_groups.shtml ?
05:18 <+Radix-wrk> yeah, a2dp is nice, though I ended up not using my stereo bluetooth headset as much as I'd thought I would so sold it to a friend
05:18 < nuba> err, #webgui
05:18 < nuba> rizen: ?
05:19 <@rizen> yes nuba
05:19 < nuba> why isn't webgui listed here: http://freenode.net/primary_groups.shtml ?
05:19 <@preaction> i want a2dp so i can get a bluetooth enabled head unit for my car, then my awesome will be complete
05:19 < nuba> im just curious, not whining..
05:20 <@rizen> that's preactions job
05:20 <@rizen> he's in charge of irc
05:21 < nuba> it seems they can be contacted at web@freenode.net for comments on that page
05:22 <@preaction> i'd have to have vrby or you do all the paperwork, they want a contact address / phone number before they'll give out stuff like that if i remember correctly
05:22 < nuba> i'd comment that "webgui is missing" :)
05:23 <@preaction> they're verified by phone it seems, if i were to fill out a group contact form
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10:24 < nuba> here's the reply from web@freenode.net re: link to webgui missing on freenode's website: http://sial.org/pbot/26170
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16:06 < SDuensin> Good morning!
17:01 <@rizen> Nooooooooooooooo!
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17:15 < perlmonkey2> rizen: I've got bad news and worse news.  The bad news if I haven't started.  The worse news is my project milestone has been pushed back to the middle of next week.  So I won't start having, what normal people call, downtime until the middle of next week where I can start on the new survey system.  Yes, I am a luser.
17:16 <@rizen> that's horrible and terrible news
17:21 < perlmonkey2> 7.4 is released on the 20th, right?
17:47 <@rizen> yes
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20:57 < perlmonkey2> Does WebGUI have any way of accepting/managing payments?
20:59 <@preaction> the Commerce module, currently "beta"
20:59 <@preaction> you can build plugins for payment gateways, currently comes with an Itransact gateway
21:00 <@preaction> and i believe there's a community-contributed Paypal one, but don't quote me on that
21:00 <@preaction> however, from what i hear Commerce is being completely re-written for 8.0, and done right
21:03 < perlmonkey2> 8.0?  When is 8.0 coming out?
21:08 <@preaction> probably quite a while from now
21:09 <@preaction> we've gone from 7.1 to 7.4 in the last 10 months of my tenure here, so i'd assume late next year at the very earliest, but that's just idle speculation
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21:26 < Khaytsus> Goes fairly fast..  I missed about 12 updates in 3 months it seemeed when I last updated.
21:29 < Khaytsus> Ad I think I am behind again :)
21:39 < Khaytsus> Yep, one release..  But no biggie, I'll wait.  It upgradesnicely anyway.
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--- Day changed Wed Jul 11 2007
01:34 < perlmonkey2> I don't want this to sound like a criticism, because it is an honest question, but why does WebGUI need to be installed in the root directory (I've installed it elsewhere, but I had to change hard coded paths in code).
01:35 <+perlDreamer> it's just the convention
01:35 <@preaction> it's easier to manage. it'd be possible to make the directory configurable, but nobody's done it yet (and i don't know if JT would authorize it)
01:36 < perlmonkey2> Good, I like it.  I'm documenting my app for delievery, and I'm looking for reasons as to why I force them into installing it in the root directory.
01:37 < perlmonkey2> And since I'm already being a nusance, can someone point me at the svn URL?  I need to grab the latest.
01:38 <+perlDreamer> latest, like 7.4 or latest version of 7.3?
01:38 <+perlDreamer> I'm pretty sure it's on the wiki
01:38 < perlmonkey2> Okay, I'll check there, thanks.
01:39 <+perlDreamer> that has the SVN URL, which is HEAD, which is 7.4
01:40 <+perlDreamer> a copy of 7.3 would be found in https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/branch/WebGUI_7.3
01:41 < perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: Cool thanks.  But if I'm going to try to write something for 7.4 release, shouldn't I be using the 7.4 code base?
01:41 <+perlDreamer> yes, but it isn't stable
01:41 <+perlDreamer> use at your own risk
01:43 < perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: Unless someone is working on a new survey system that happens to use my test namespace, I should be fine :)
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01:47 <+perlDreamer> http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/webgui-releases-and-svn-revision-numbers
01:48 <+perlDreamer> Anyone know why the table feature is disabled in the Wiki?
01:50 <@preaction> probably because it's just using the Post Rich Editor, which has tables disabled
01:51 <@preaction> you could configure it differently, of course
01:51 <+perlDreamer> or you could flip into HTML mode and enter it directly, too ;)
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03:46 <@preaction> should admins be automatically in the Visitors group?
03:50 <+Radix-wrk> aren't admins by definition in every group
03:54 <@preaction> yes, but visitors group is only visitors, no?
03:54 <@preaction> i mean, in the code, there doesn't seem to be an automatic admins <-> visitors relationship
03:56 <+Radix-wrk> Hmm.. visitors may be the exception really.. and kinda makes sense
03:57 <+Radix-wrk> there's probably a fair bit of "if not visitor" code around
03:59 <@preaction> exactly
03:59 <@preaction> but if not visitor = registered user
03:59 <@preaction> that's probably better to do
04:02 <@preaction> unf, better
04:02 <@preaction> fixed that bug
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04:41 <+crythia1> heya
04:42 <+Radix-wrk> howdy stranger
04:42 <+crythia1> images as assets/attachments?
04:43 <+Radix-wrk> yes?
04:43 <+crythia1> has a concensus been made?
04:44 <+Radix-wrk> I must have missed the discussion - not sure what you're talking about :)
04:44 <+crythia1> dev
04:44 <+crythia1> dev list thing
04:46 <+Radix-wrk> Ahh.. I see the thread
04:46 <+Radix-wrk> I'm with the asset crowd
04:46 <@preaction> crythia1: the discussion is the dev list, this is more quick one-on-one. for long-term project goals and stuff that needs all the community involved, that's the dev list
04:46 <@preaction> reply so JT knows what the community wants
04:47 <+Radix-wrk> I still want images inserted into through the html editor to link to the asset, not the image too.
04:47 <+Radix-wrk> Was just thinking of adding that as an RFE again
04:47 <@preaction> i'm more towards storing JSON objects in the database with more information about attachments
04:47 <+crythia1> well, yeah i just wanted to know if anything was hashed out here
04:49 <+crythia1> why can't things be hybrids?
04:49 <+crythia1> hee
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04:50 <+crythia1> they're attached but they can be referenced either as an attachment or asset, depending what you want to do with them.
04:54 <+crythia1> meh
04:54 <+crythia1> ttfn
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05:22  * Radix-wrk adds a new RFE and waits for JT to say he hates it.
05:31  * diakopter says JT hates it, for him.
05:31 < diakopter> (j/k; I haven't even looked at the rfe)
05:37 < perlmonkey2> Is there a standard object for use to communicate with Ajaxified pages?
05:40 <@preaction> nope, unless you want httpproxy
05:40 < perlmonkey2> Or would you just use the standard www_ calls and have the ajax handle the results?
05:41 < perlmonkey2> Which probably means a framework of objects on the ajax side shoudl be developed with YUI.
05:41 <@preaction> that's what i do, usually i call them www_ajax*
05:41 < perlmonkey2> preaction: cool.
05:41 <@preaction> and that's underway too, in www/extras/yui-webgui
05:41 < perlmonkey2> you guys think of everything :)
05:42 <@preaction> not everything, but a lot
06:12 < Khaytsus> I should try the project management and wiki..  I haven't yet
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06:20  * Radix-wrk just uploaded a Lightbox2 webgui package to webgui.org for anyone interested.
06:24 < Khaytsus> What would that be?
06:26 < Khaytsus> Project Management is a little klunky, but usable mostly
06:26 <@preaction> yeah, that one needs to be redone
06:27 <+Radix-wrk> http://www.webgui.org/user_contributions/user_contributions/packages/lightbox2-template-package
06:27 <+Radix-wrk> Just added a link to my test page showing examples of it's use
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06:29 < Khaytsus> That's pretty cool
06:29 < Khaytsus> I have been meaning to put a limited photo album in mine, but have yet to do it
06:30 <+Radix-wrk> yeah, that's what I thought, so I got it to work in webgui :)
06:30 < Khaytsus> heh
06:30 < Khaytsus> So you're a webgui consultant?  Interesting.
06:31 <+Radix-wrk> yeah, just starting it up as a business really.
06:31 <+Radix-wrk> just a sideline afterhours really
06:32 < Khaytsus> ah, gotcha..  WebGUI is a good platform.  I use about 2% of it I think ;-)
06:33 < Khaytsus> Man I know I'm a complete tard, but I'm not even sure how to start a WIki page..  Guess I'll try editing the content with some standard wiki stuff and see what happens..
06:37 <+Radix-wrk> you have to search for something before it'll let you add new
06:38 < Khaytsus> oh, doh..  That's a shortcut to it in TWiki, didn't think about that.
06:38 < Khaytsus> I always make a WikiWord so it's not orphaned
06:38 < Khaytsus> That's a little unclear...
06:39 <+Radix-wrk> I happen to agree :)
06:42 < Khaytsus> And the WikiWord links are... odd
06:42 < Khaytsus> ThisWord, the link is Word
06:47 < Khaytsus> I'll have to try that template tommorrow, neat stuff
06:56 < Khaytsus> Hey, that was easy ;-)
06:56 < Khaytsus> I need to resize the images, ahem :)
07:00 < Khaytsus> Be nice if I could figure out how to display all the images directly, rather than in an album below the main page.
07:01 < Khaytsus> I must be missing something :)
07:07 <+Radix-wrk> Hmm.. not sure how you'd do that, but it might be possible
07:07 <+Radix-wrk> the images are attached to a thread - and essentially you're viewing a thread when you click on an album
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07:27 <@preaction> would it be prudent for a feature to make links? i mean everything else can be handled by the HTML editor, but perhaps let [[WikiWord]] be a wiki link?
07:27 <@preaction> that would probably make things a lot better for the wiki
07:27 <@preaction> that and adding Category pages
07:27 <@preaction> or Tag pages
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08:14 <@rizen> tags are in
08:14 <@rizen> added it to 7.4 
08:15 <@rizen> as far as making links, i'd prefer that stuff only gets automagically linked or hand linked. i don't like wikis that link to pages that don't exist
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13:39 < Khaytsus> I personally prefer to make preferences to WikiWords that I plan on defining, then defining them.  Yes, I doo hate when those WikiWords don't get defined, but at least the template is there.
13:40 < Khaytsus> That's always how I create pages in TWiki myself; fill in content and WikiWords as I go along, then go in and fill in each of the WikiWords content.
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15:44 < SDuensin> Greetings!
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17:22 < jdan> Hi everybody. I'm new to WebGUI 7, but very familiar with WebGUI 5. I am looking form document which describe how to testing new Perl modules. The problem is that I have to restart Apache every time I change source. Could someone point me any solution how to set my environment?
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17:46 < Radix__> jdan: is this what you're looking for?  http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/configure-the-wre-for-developers
17:48 < Radix__> http://www.webgui.org/webgui/dev/discuss/stop--start/6 - this topic has more info as well on how to configure Apache2::Reload
17:49 < jdan> Radix__: Almost. I don't use WRE. So I am trying configure my Apache2 to work with Apache2::Reload. Unfortunately I don't know how to set WebGUI path to @INC in config
17:50 < Radix__> Check out that second topic then
17:50 < Radix__> IMHO if you're not using the WRE then you're shooting yourself in the foot from the get-go ;)
17:51 < Radix__> Good luck! :)
17:51  * Radix__ wanders off to bed.
17:52 < jdan> ok, I will install WRE on my Debian.
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18:05 < jdan> Radix__: I found solution. I added "PerlSwitches -Ipath-to-webgui_lib" and Apache2 reload modules if it is changed
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21:17 <+perlDreamer> I need a cross platform check on a test that's failing.
21:17 <+perlDreamer> Does anyone have 5 minutes to run a test for me on their system?
21:21 <@rizen> i have osx ppc, will that work?
21:21 <+perlDreamer> sure.
21:21 <@rizen> and i only have 7.4 set up right now...can i use that?
21:21 <+perlDreamer> Yes.
21:21 <@rizen> ok then
21:21 <@rizen> what do you need?
21:22 <+perlDreamer> export WEBGUI_CONFIG=/data/WebGUI/etc/rizens.conf
21:22 <@rizen> done
21:22 <+perlDreamer> cd /data/WebGUI/t
21:22 <+perlDreamer> perl Macro/FetchMimeType.t
21:22 <@rizen> should i update to latest?
21:22 <@rizen> i'm probably a few hours behind
21:22 <+perlDreamer> It won't matter
21:22 <@rizen> k
21:23 <+perlDreamer> Does the test pass?
21:23 <@rizen> running
21:23 <@rizen> no
21:23 <@rizen> 1..7
21:23 <@rizen> ok 1 - use WebGUI::Macro::FetchMimeType;
21:23 <@rizen> ok 2 - gif
21:23 <@rizen> ok 3 - jpeg
21:23 <@rizen> not ok 4 - plain text
21:23 <@rizen> #   Failed test 'plain text'
21:23 <@rizen> #   in Macro/FetchMimeType.t at line 73.
21:23 <@rizen> #          got: 'application/octet-stream'
21:23 <@rizen> #     expected: 'text/plain'
21:23 <@rizen> ok 5 - octet-stream for unknown type
21:23 <@rizen> ok 6 - Null path returns application/octet-stream
21:23 <@rizen> ok 7 - Undef path returns undef
21:23 <@rizen> # Looks like you failed 1 test of 7.
21:23 <+perlDreamer> weird
21:24 <+perlDreamer> It looks like javascript files are handled differently than they have been in the past.
21:24 <+perlDreamer> I'll update the test.
21:25 <+perlDreamer> The test suite caught two fatal bugs today, so now I'm doing other triage.
21:26 <@rizen> cool
21:42 <+perlDreamer> 13788 tests run, all clean
21:42 <+perlDreamer> I'll run the CODE_COP tests later, too
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01:40 < Khaytsus> Hmmmm, how does one convert an article into a thread?  I was thinking I saw a way to do that once.  I have a handful of articles that I now want to put into a collaboration system (Topics template0
01:40 < Khaytsus> Copy and paste I suppose...  I tried just moving them into the Collaboration System under Manage, but that didn't do much :)
01:40 <@rizen> copy and paste the content
01:40 < Khaytsus> k, I figured that was gonna be the asnwer.
01:41 <@rizen> if it were more than a handful, it may be useful to write a program to do it
01:41 <@rizen> but in this case..not really
01:41 < Khaytsus> Nah, not too many
01:42 < Khaytsus> Just figured I might be missing something
01:42 < Khaytsus> Thanks :)
02:11 -!- Radix__ is now known as Radix_
02:11 -!- Radix_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.3.20 | WRE 0.7.2 ] - Come To The WUC http://www.plainblack.com/wuc
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02:21 <+Radix_> preaction: what's with the multiple personalities? :)  ie. DBell and preaction on the forums
02:23 <@preaction> apparently "alias" isn't good enough for some parts of WebGUI
02:23 <@preaction> i imagine i'll go into the db and change my username someday
02:23 <+Radix_> heh
02:25 <+Radix_> Alias works - but each thread post must embed the name used or something
02:25 <+Radix_> http://www.webgui.org/install/upgrade_help/installing-webgui-7_3_19-problem/5#idALwBgIblIekyP2AiAldqOA
02:25 <+Radix_> your first reply is listed as DBell, then the second is preaction
02:25 <+Radix_> same userid each time tho
02:25 <@preaction> yeah, between there i changed my alias
02:26 <@preaction> (the original alias defaults to username)
02:30 <+Radix_> do you know if a 7.3.21 is planned at all?
02:32 <@preaction> i think it is, i think there'll be one more stable release before 7.4
02:32 <+Radix_> if you get a chance, could you roll this one line change into it? - http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/left-admin-bar-overlap-problem
02:32 <@preaction> but 7.4 was pushed back, so there might be another
02:33 <+Radix_> it was posted a while back, but I don't think anyone noticed
02:33 <@preaction> it was just a damned specificity problem?
02:33 <+Radix_> just z-index wasn't set for the right object
02:33 <+Radix_> or rather was set in wrong css tag
02:34 <@preaction> .slidePanel and #slidePanel refer to the same thing (in theory), but classes are "less specific" than IDs, which assigns them less weight to the cascade, so z-index: 100; becomes more important
02:34 <@preaction> i'll put this on my to-do list
02:35 <+Radix_> no, .slidepanel is included only if class="slidepanel", #slidepanel is only included if id="slidepanel"
02:36 <+Radix_> cheers anyway
02:38  * Radix_ heads off to work.
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03:08 <@rizen> radix, yes there will be a 7.3.21 release
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03:56 < perlmonkey2> rizen: (Concerning the survey) Since a lot of survey's are eventually exported either into number crunchers like SPSS, or to reporting applications, could we add a way to assign user defined variable names to each question, and then an export option which would transpose the results with the columns labeled with the user defined variable names?
03:57 <@rizen> can you do it in such a way that doesn't make the export system difficult to use?
03:57 <+Radix-wrk> Why not just use webgui to display the results?
03:57 <@rizen> cuz a lot of people just want to export to a spreadsheet or something
03:58 < perlmonkey2> rizen: definetly, I'd make the user defined variable names optional and just another column in the question table, not used until the user exports as TAB TRANSPOSED or something.
03:59 <@rizen> i'm all for making the system better
03:59 <@rizen> so sure
03:59 < perlmonkey2> groovy
04:00 < perlmonkey2> by-the-by, the new (I guess it is new) youtube vid is pretty slick.  Nice graphics and voice over.
04:02 <@rizen> it's actually been on our site for 6 months
04:02 <@rizen> but the reorg of our site brought it front and center
04:02 <@rizen> thanks
04:02 < perlmonkey2> I usually look at your site from work where I'm running 64 bit fedora ie no Flash.
04:03 <+Radix-wrk> imho it's not wow enough - it's just a powerpoint slide with a voiceover
04:03 < perlmonkey2> For a FOSS project it's pretty frik'n major.
04:03 <+Radix-wrk> that said, it's better than one I could make :)
04:04 <@rizen> we're talking about a business productivity tool here...how wow can you get?
04:04 <@rizen> it's not like we're doing 3d animation, or cutting off people's heads
04:05 <@rizen> =)
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04:44 < perlmonkey2> Okay, I'm an idiot, and not afraid to admit it.  On my fresh install of F7, I'm trying to creating a WebGUI instance from the svn latest.  But I'm missing jpg's and the admin bar won't appear.  I'm positive this has to do with permissions, but I've given apache the golden key to everything.
05:06 < perlmonkey2> Is someone working on the workflow?
05:06 < perlmonkey2> "Root cause: Unknown column 'mode' in 'where clause'"
05:08 <@rizen> yes i made some changes to workflow
05:08 <@rizen> you need to run the upgrade
05:16 < perlmonkey2> running the upgrade didn't work.  "NO UPGRADES NECESSARY".  Is there a way to force it?
05:17 <@rizen> what version is your database?
05:17 < perlmonkey2> crap
05:17 <@rizen> this is just a dev instance right?
05:17 < perlmonkey2> no, the database should be the latest.
05:17 < perlmonkey2> correct
05:17 <@rizen> ok then do this
05:17 < perlmonkey2> I recreated the database after svn update
05:18 <@rizen> mysql -e "drop database dbname; create database dbname"
05:18 <@rizen> mysql dbname < /data/WebGUI/docs/previousVersion.sql
05:18 <@rizen> cd /data/WebGUI/sbin
05:18 <@rizen> perl upgrade.pl
05:18 < perlmonkey2> ic....cool, thanks.
05:18 <@rizen> if you do that, then you'll be all good
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05:19 <@rizen> i usually create a script to do that among other things
05:19 <@rizen> cuz i screw up my database a lot while developing
05:19 <@rizen> you may want to consider making one too
05:19 < perlmonkey2> Good idea, I'll do that.
05:20 <@rizen> if you want, i can give you my script
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05:21 < perlmonkey2> That would be even better.
05:25 <@rizen> http://rafb.net/p/tL6yRZ40.html
05:26 < perlmonkey2> Thanks
05:26 <@rizen> np
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10:01 < Leon> any one here ?
10:03 <+Radix-wrk> Yup
10:03 < Leon> is this a help channel or what ? hehe
10:03 <+Radix-wrk> To a certain extent.. if we can help anyway :)
10:03 < Leon> hehe...
10:03 < Leon> listen then.. maybe you can
10:03 < Leon> i installed webgui 7.3.19 yest..
10:04 < Leon> but having a problem with images, and can't get the idea of what the problem can be as i tried all permisions..
10:04 < Leon> www.ecwdp.com
10:04 <+Radix-wrk> Checked your webgui logs?
10:05 < Leon> can it be a problem with spectre ?
10:05 <+Radix-wrk> perlbot paste
10:05 < perlbot> Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.
10:06 <+Radix-wrk> paste a copy of your webgui.log in using one of those sites and let me know the url you get.
10:06 <+Radix-wrk> I reckon your permissions are setup wrong though at a guess
10:07 <+Radix-wrk> you have to ensure that the entire uploads folder is chown to nobody:nobody
10:07 < Leon> http://sial.org/pbot/26233
10:07 < Leon> yep nobody.nobody
10:08 <+Radix-wrk> and what is apache set to run under?
10:08 <+Radix-wrk> most distro's use nobody, but perhaps it's using something different?
10:08 <+Radix-wrk> www or something maybe
10:08 < Leon> i setted up apache to run as nobody.nobody
10:09 < Leon> # User/Group: The name (or #number) of the user/group to run httpd as.
10:09 < Leon> # It is usually good practice to create a dedicated user and group for
10:09 < Leon> # running httpd, as with most system services.
10:09 < Leon> #
10:09 < Leon> User nobody
10:09 < Leon> Group nobody
10:09 < Leon> </IfModule>
10:10 < Leon> i have 2 apaches running on the same machine..
10:10 <+Radix-wrk> and what are the permissions on that file/dir?
10:10 < Leon> apache1 and apache2
10:10 <+Radix-wrk> on the /home/WebGUI/www/ one
10:10 < Leon> tried with 600, 666, 755, 775
10:10 <+Radix-wrk> Hmm.. wierd
10:11 < Leon> yeah i can't get the idea of what the problem is :/
10:11 < Leon> can it be a problem with spectre ?
10:11 <+Radix-wrk> no, doesn't look like it's getting that far
10:11 <+Radix-wrk> WebGUI is trying to simply store the files on the disk, and it's failing to create the directories at all
10:12 <+Radix-wrk> what distro are you using?
10:12 < Leon> red hat enterprise 4
10:12 <+Radix-wrk> and where did you get the apache from?  yum or the cd itself?
10:12 < Leon> and apache 2.2.4
10:13 < Leon> from apache's website
10:13 <+Radix-wrk> Oh.. so you compiled it yourself?
10:13 < Leon> yep
10:13 <+Radix-wrk> Hmm..
10:13 <+Radix-wrk> Are you sure it's using the apache.conf that you think it is?
10:14 < Leon> the httpd.conf you mean ?
10:14 <+Radix-wrk> yeah
10:14 < Leon> yeah apache1 and apache2 are running on different ip's
10:14 <+Radix-wrk> using two separate copies of apache?
10:15 < Leon> yes
10:15 < Leon> cpanel only works with apache1 atm
10:15 <+Radix-wrk> could the webgui apache be using the httpd.conf from the other apache setup?
10:16 < Leon> no i don't think so..
10:17 < Leon> because there isn't the setup of mod_perl on the apache1
10:17 < Leon> and i have another server with same setup... i have webgui 5.2.12 on it
10:17 < Leon> it works fine
10:18 <+Radix-wrk> Hmm...
10:18 <+Radix-wrk> When you dumped the module config before from your httpd.conf - you said "<Leon> </IfModule>" at the end
10:19 <+Radix-wrk> what module was that?
10:19 < Leon> aha
10:19 < Leon> <IfModule !mpm_netware_module>
10:20 <+Radix-wrk> err..
10:20 < Leon> apache kemm with it..
10:20 <+Radix-wrk> user and group shouldn't need to be defined inside a ifmodule tag
10:20 < Leon> *came
10:21 < Leon> i tried to make them outside the tag
10:21 < Leon> but the start
10:21 < Leon> *didn't
10:23  * Radix-wrk applies his language parser to the above few lines and tries to make head or tail of its meaning.
10:23 < Leon> lol
10:24 < Leon> i tried defining the user and group outside the ifmodule tag..
10:24 < Leon> but then apache didn't start
10:24 <+Radix-wrk> Hmm.. that's odd
10:24 <+Radix-wrk> Any particular reason why you didn't just use the wre?
10:25 < Leon> hmm no i don't think so..
10:25 < Leon> wre if i have perl already installed it will skip it or ?
10:25 <+Radix-wrk> the WRE is complete by itself
10:26 < Leon> so it won't clash with already installed?
10:26 <+Radix-wrk> Good question
10:26 < Leon> hehe
10:27 <+Radix-wrk> ideally no, though I know the wre mysql will be overridden if you already have one
10:27 <+Radix-wrk> it comes with a compiled and optimised apache/modperl/modproxy setup
10:27 <+Radix-wrk> and some very nifty scripts for adding sites, etc
10:27 < Leon> hmm..
10:27 <+Radix-wrk> it's also the recommended way of installing Webgui
10:28 <+Radix-wrk> WebGUI relies on a lot of perl scripts, and the ones in cpan aren't always the best ones to use
10:28 < Leon> hehe.. i installed the 5.2.12 without wre and thought 7.3.19 would be something simimalr
10:28 < Leon> what was that of mysql thing ?
10:29 <+Radix-wrk> yeah, the 5.x series was a lot easier to install, webgui has grown heaps since then, but also added a lot more perl modules
10:29 <+Radix-wrk> the WRE makes all that so much easier to manage
10:29 < Leon> i'll try it off..
10:29 < Leon> it won't earase my databases right ?
10:30 <+Radix-wrk> yikes, I should hope not :)
10:30 < Leon> i hope so..
10:30 < Leon> lol
10:30 <+Radix-wrk> that said, always make a backup!
10:31 < Leon> i'll try it off.. 
10:31 < Leon> thanks for your help :)
10:31 <+Radix-wrk> np
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11:58 < Leon> any one can help ?
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14:07 < Khaytsus> I haven't tried the WRE, as I didn't want to dedicate the whole server to webgui.  I have other cgi's, php, etc, running on the box.  Perhaps there's a way to coexist or have the WRE use the existing httpd.
14:07 < Khaytsus> (Just a statement... :)
14:08 < Khaytsus> I wonder if 7.x has gotten more difficul to install..  6.8 wasn't too bad, but it took a heck of a lot of compiling modules (some of which would compile on their own, some I had to compile...  which was odd)
14:59 < pjesi> Khaytsus: they are coexisting over here 
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15:36 < SDuensin> Good morning.
15:53 < Khaytsus> pjesi: I'll have to try it, I read it as they wouldn't.
16:09 < pjesi> my setup is basically WRE + normal http
16:09 < pjesi> I use the mod_proxy in the WRE to serve requests to the regualr http
16:10 < pjesi> mod_proxy on 80, mod_perl on 81, and then the distro http with whatever php and stuff on other port
16:28 < jdan> Hey, how $self->session->form->process works? I can't found 'process' subroutine. I have to view it to learn how it works.
16:31 < jdan> Definitely I don't know how WebGUI::Form inherit process subroutine
16:43 < pjesi> SDuensin: you in #eclipse? :P
16:45 < SDuensin> Yep.  I'm losing a battle with it and seriously need help.
16:48 < pjesi> sorry I have not had that usecase for it
16:55 < SDuensin> I have, and it's a serious issue.  :-(
16:59 < pjesi> what are you using eclipse for?
17:00 < SDuensin> My ZK Desktop project.
17:01 < pjesi> are you using Europa?
17:01 < SDuensin> Yea
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17:17 < jdan> Sorry for my foolish question. I mistaked WebGUI::Form with WebGUI::Session::Form. Ech
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18:56 < wenzu> anyone here ?
18:57 <@preaction> yes'm
18:57 < wenzu> what does the commit changes does in webgui ?
18:57 < wenzu> i'm used with old webgui and can't figure out how to change style in the new one
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18:58 <@preaction> when you change an asset, you create a new Revision of that asset. that revision is marked as "pending" until it's committed (when it's marked as "approved")
18:59 <@preaction> the latest version of an approved asset is the one that appears, unless you have your own pending version (are working under your own version tag)
19:00 < wenzu> couse before i created my own style... done it in webgui and everything.. and i was seeing it logged in.. when i logged out everything was gone..
19:00 <@preaction> because you did not commit your version tag
19:01 < wenzu> so.. i'll create a version tag..
19:01 < wenzu> do everything, and then commit ?
19:01 <@preaction> they're created automatically
19:02 < wenzu> and what things come locked ?
19:02 < wenzu> *why
19:03 <@preaction> because they're being edited under a different version tag
19:03 < wenzu> ah ic
19:03 <@preaction> (incidentally, this and more is all explained in the Content Manager's Guide from Plain Black)
19:03 < wenzu> so my main problem are the version tags
19:03 < wenzu> hehe
19:04 < wenzu> ah shi...
19:04 < wenzu> i was only looking at webgui.org
19:06 <@preaction> i'm an employee at plainblack, gotta push the product (especially when it answers so many questions)
19:07 < wenzu> didn't release how much webgui changed from my old 5.1.12
19:07 < wenzu> totally different
19:08 <@rizen> once you get used to it, i think you'll find that it may be totally different, but it's totally better
19:08 <@preaction> yeah, hopefully people start coming out from the 5.x/6.x rock
19:13 < wenzu> i'll just press commit my changes and thats all ?
19:14 <@preaction> the comment page will pop up and request you insert a comment, but that's optional, and then "save" and then spectre will do the commit, usually in a few seconds
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19:18 < wenzu> sorry i'm going to annoy you... 
19:19 < wenzu> i created a folder.. commited changes.. and folder isn't there
19:20 <@rizen> is this on a custom server or on demo.webgui.org?
19:20 < wenzu> custom
19:20 <@rizen> are you sure you have spectre set up correctly?
19:20 <@rizen> log in to your server
19:20 <@rizen> and type
19:20 <@rizen> cd /data/WebGUI/sbin
19:20 < wenzu> aha
19:20 <@rizen> perl spectre.pl --test
19:21 <@rizen> spectre is the workflow governor
19:21 <@rizen> you can't commit changes without it
19:21 < wenzu> ah shit
19:21 < wenzu> ERROR: Spectre cannot communicate with WebGUI. Perhaps you need to adjust the spectreSubnets setting in this config file:
19:22 <@rizen> *ding* - we have a winner
19:22 <@rizen> =)
19:22 < wenzu> lol
19:23 < wenzu> this webgui is making me mad
19:23 <@rizen> don't be mad
19:23 <@rizen> you have to have some faith...once you get it up and running, you're going to love 7.x
19:23 <@rizen> and not know how you ever even survived with 5.x
19:23 < wenzu> hehe
19:24 <@rizen> i quite literally hear that all the time
19:24 <@rizen> people always hate 7 if they've used 5
19:24 <@rizen> but then they get used to it
19:24 <@rizen> and can't imagine how they ever used 5
19:24 < wenzu> 5 is nice and easy :P
19:24 <@rizen> you say that now
19:25 <@rizen> i'll talk to you at the beginning of august
19:25 <@rizen> after you've been using 7 for a bit
19:25 < wenzu> and easy too install too :P
19:25 <@rizen> so is webgui 7
19:25 <@rizen> if you do it following the instructions
19:25 <@rizen> meaning use the WRE
19:25 < wenzu> i did
19:25 < wenzu> but now i got this error in spectre 
19:26 <@rizen> did you answer the question about subnets correctly when you installed the WRE?
19:27 < wenzu> i guess yes
19:27 <@rizen> edit your webgui config
19:27 < wenzu> i can't see the subnet setting in spectre.conf :/
19:27 <@rizen> look for spectreSubnets
19:27 <@rizen> it's not in there it's in the webgui config
19:28 <@rizen> make sure it looks like
19:28 < wenzu> ah this is strange... i only have WebGUI.conf.original
19:28 < SDuensin> wenzu - I was a huge fan of 5.x and never went to 6.  After 7 "clicks" with you, 5 looks downright primitive.  It's fantastic.
19:28 < SDuensin> (Hi rizen)
19:28 <@rizen> "spectreSubnets" : ["127.0.0.1/32", "1.1.1.1/32"],
19:28 <@rizen> where 1.1.1.1 is replaced with your server's IP
19:29 <@rizen> howdy SD
19:29 < wenzu> i only have WebGUI.conf.original
19:29 < wenzu> strange eh ?
19:29 <@rizen> you should also have
19:29 <@rizen> www.yoursite.com.conf
19:29 <@rizen> that's your webgui config
19:29 < wenzu> a ok
19:30 < SDuensin> rizen - Totally off topic, but I shipped a HUGE update to the ZK Desktop.  The new super-duper Wonder Grid CRUD tool is in!
19:30 <@rizen> ZK Desktop is only for doobie smokers and crank yankers
19:30 <@rizen> WebGUI Desktop is where it's at
19:30 <@rizen> =)
19:31 <@rizen> thanks for the heads up SD, i'll have to get a download
19:31 < SDuensin> Yea, and on that front, I did some reading about YUI + EXT today.  Wow does that produce some awesome looking UIs.
19:32 <@rizen> yeah YUI and Ext are amazing, they just aren't neat autogen frameworks like ZK is
19:32 <@rizen> they have the super flexible, powerful, and well documented API's
19:33 <@rizen> but it would be nice if they also had some prebuilt power tools like zk
19:33 <@rizen> i suppose then
19:33 <@rizen> they couldn't be server side neutral though
19:33 <@rizen> which is why they don't do it
19:33 < SDuensin> Like I said before, my whole reason for ZK was the server-side stuff.  It's great not having to deal with the browser.
19:33 < SDuensin> Yup.
19:34 < wenzu> its ok now..
19:34 < wenzu> thanks rizen :)
19:34 < wenzu> one other think..
19:35 < wenzu> can i edit something so that when i create a new site its config will be with the right subnet ?
19:36 <@rizen> yes
19:37 <@rizen> it's /data/wre/var/hoster.arg.cache
19:37 <@rizen> if you make it look like this then you'll be good:
19:37 <@rizen> spectreSubnets:10.0.0.101/32, \
19:37 <@rizen>     127.0.0.1/32
19:37 < wenzu> k fixed :)
19:38 < wenzu> ur the king of the swing
19:38 <@rizen> use 7 for a month, then i dare you to tell me you still like 5 better than 7
19:39 < wenzu> hehe
19:39 <@rizen> i say there's a 95% chance you won't be able to do it
19:39 < wenzu> i hope so..
19:39 < wenzu> and is the adminbar a bit bugged or is mine a bit fu.... ?
19:39 < SDuensin> 99%   :-)
19:40 < wenzu> ah i think the "bug" was the spectre lol
19:41 < wenzu> ok this is far better now working fine :)
19:42 < wenzu> let me take the opportunity and ask another thing that i didn't find on 5..
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19:42 < wenzu> can i make like a page in the style lets say.. on the right hand side of the website.. and it will be updateable..
19:43 < wenzu> bot a template with the numbers like 5 was.. i want it in every page and updateable
19:43 < wenzu> *not
19:43 < SDuensin> Same thing on each page?
19:43 < wenzu> yes
19:43 < SDuensin> Shortcuts!
19:44 < SDuensin> You can make a shortcut of an asset and paste it elsewhere on the site.
19:44 < SDuensin> Or include the asset in the style with a macro.
19:44 < wenzu> hmm
19:44 < wenzu> i'll try that
19:45 < wenzu> cheers :)
19:45 < SDuensin> Enjoy!
19:46 < wenzu> i'll do
19:47 < wenzu> its surely faster eh
19:48 <@rizen> Read the wiki about the ^AssetProxy(); macr
19:48 <@rizen> macro
19:48 < wenzu> thanks again :)
19:48 < wenzu> very helpfull guys
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20:52 < ckotil> anyone hear of cosign integration into webgui?
20:52 < ckotil> its another sso solution.
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21:00 <@rizen> i heard it when you said it on irc last week
21:00 <@rizen> =)
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21:16 < ckotil> yah, i said we were thinking about moving to cosign
21:17 < ckotil> we have development cosign servers up and running.
21:17 < ckotil> its going to be a breeze to switch everything to cosign, and since it has a kerberos backend. the change will not be very drastic, only a cosmetic change to our users.
21:18 < ckotil> but, so far we havent figured out an elegant solution to make a pluggable authentication module for webgui.
22:18 <@preaction> what's the backend? are there command-line authorization scripts? are there Perl modules for authentication or perhaps something you can use with Inline::* modules?
22:24 < ckotil> its perl.
22:24 < ckotil> dunno about using modules with it.
22:26 <@preaction> if it's written in Perl it should be trivial to build an auth module against it (or at least not exceedingly difficult)
22:30 <@preaction> this looks like C
22:32 < ckotil> compiled cgi
22:32 < ckotil> hrmm maybe the daemon IS c
22:32 < ckotil> *3001#12345#* type this into your iPhones!
22:32 < ckotil> 'field info'
22:32 < ckotil> aka debug mode
22:33 <@preaction> theoretically though wouldn't you use the cosign server to actually do the auth, and only use the WebGUI::Auth::Cosign to get a username from the cosign cookie?
22:34 <@preaction> so you only really need to be able to read the cookie and get a webgui userId from it
22:34 < ckotil> ah.
22:34 < ckotil> yeah that sounds good.
22:34 < ckotil> pretty much how CAS sso works.
22:34 <@preaction> unfortunately, like most code that i get to read, nobody ever documents or comments, so since i don't really know C, this is a lot of gibberish
22:36 <@preaction> but it looks like a cookie named "cosign" is created with two text strings separated by a / (one called "new_cookiebuf" and another called "tv.tv_sec") <- if you find out what those two things are, you can find out who's logged in and what's happening with it
22:37 <@preaction> but it also seems that cosign requires SSL
22:39 <@preaction> have you ever looked at Yadis / OpenID (or LID)? i know OpenID is written in Perl and would be easy to port to WebGUI
22:41 < ckotil> we have not.
22:42 < ckotil> so the problem we're going to run into with cosign is that it pretty mcuh requires webgui to be behind mod_cosign.
22:42 < ckotil> which will be  a problem.
22:42 < ckotil> and you cannot remotley check on teh cosigns cookie.
22:43 <@preaction> i dunno, it seems that cosign serves central auth. there must be a remote interface for apps to verify auth
22:44 < ckotil> they have these things called filters.
22:44 < ckotil> which allow for remote checking of the cookies.
22:44 < ckotil> but supposedly they are a bi0tch to create.
22:45 < ckotil> i have a more pressing issue. i upgraded to red hat 5, and now when i try to execute perl preload.perl it tries to run perl5.5.8 rather than 5.8.8
22:46 < ckotil> i ran into this when i first started using webgui, and i forgot how to fix it.
22:46 <@preaction> what does ls -l /usr/bin/perl say? you might have to point /usr/bin/perl somewhere else
22:46 < ckotil> ./usr/bin/perl
22:52 < ckotil> and perl -v shows 5.8.8
22:53 < ckotil> my only guess is that APR or libapreq are majorly screwed up
22:55 <@rizen> FYI: http://www.plainblack.com/news/news/webgui/perl-developer-position#lc7UqGyASnjmvbougzs8YQ
22:56 <@rizen> FYI: http://www.plainblack.com/news/news/web-support-and-training-specialist
22:57 < ckotil> rizen: scroll up and type that number into your iphone.
22:57 < ckotil> via the phone keypad
22:57 <@rizen> how do i get back out of that mode?
22:58 < ckotil> home button.
22:58 < ckotil> back out with the tabs.
22:58 < ckotil> you're not stuck there or anything.
22:59 <@rizen> cool
22:59 < ckotil> ya, some witty developer can use this to triangulate your location
23:17 < perlmonkey2> I can answer the Perl dev questions pretty easy, but I'm morally obligated to continue at my current place.
23:19 < perlmonkey2> and '\r' are the devil.
23:20 < perlmonkey2> But wouldn't it be cool to work, like as a job, for WebGUI?
23:23 < perlmonkey2> document.getElementById("x").innerHTML implies x is a <div> right?
23:23 < perlmonkey2> My JS is rusty.
23:23 <@preaction> i'm bound by desire to keep my body parts to not help you with that one :(
23:23 < perlmonkey2> discussing that probably defeats the purpose of it being on the job post, so I"ll go back to shutting up.
23:44 < diakopter> perlmonkey: no, that doesn't assume x is a <div>
23:44 < diakopter> perlmonkey2 I mean
23:49 <@preaction> a note though: innerHTML, while supported by FF and IE (and maybe WebKit), is not W3C canon
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23:53 <@rizen> preaction, shouldn't you be leaving soon?
23:54 <@preaction> i've got an hour yet, yes
23:54 <@preaction> if the durned bank didn't have a crisis over my ability to pay (and i didn't have to come up with an additional $750) i wouldn't be 5 hours behind today... i'm going to look like someone strung me out for a week...
23:55 < perlmonkey2> 1. I read up on innerhtml and while I only have exp. using it in the way I spoke, I was wrong.  2.  I'm a jackarse for even talking about it, because this is a test for interviewers, and someone reading here could unfairly pass that hurdle.
23:56 < ckotil> heh
--- Day changed Fri Jul 13 2007
00:13 < nuba> *sigh* >... US Citizen, and able to pass Federal security clearance.
00:14 < nuba> poor us people, non-US people :/
00:17 <@rizen> poor plain black for not being able to hire non-us people
00:17 < nuba> heh
00:18 < nuba> you need a sister company, which then gets contracted by plainblack ;)
00:20 < nuba> BlackPlain LCC
00:20 < perlmonkey2> BlainPlack
00:21 < nuba> PainBlack, "for you painfull coding needs!"
00:21 < nuba> -l
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00:30 <@rizen> i'm afraid we still couldn't hire you
00:30 <@rizen> for the same reasons
00:30 <@rizen> or at least you couldn't work on government projects
00:30 <@rizen> which we have a lot of
00:40 < ckotil> heh
00:40 < ckotil> anyone know how to remove things from @INC?
00:40 < ckotil> ive got soo many paths to old perl versions
00:41 <@rizen> shift
00:41 <@rizen> pop
00:41 <@rizen> poop
00:44 < ckotil> but is that permanent?
00:44 < ckotil> id rather not have to do it for every perl applicatiotn.
00:44 <@rizen> no
00:44 <@rizen> no idea where the permanent file is for that
00:44 < ckotil> well, preload.perl seems to be the only thing that complains.
00:44 <@rizen> try perlmonks
00:44 < ckotil> ok ill just shift it out.
00:44 < ckotil> thx
00:45 <@rizen> i was kidding about shift
00:45 <@rizen> i don't know if that will work or not
00:45 < ckotil> might.
00:45 <@rizen> might
00:45 < ckotil> get this. my ihone had the shittiest battery out of all the iphones ive seen. theres 6 of them in my office.
00:45 <@rizen> you're just lucky i guess
00:46 < ckotil> i haev a loaner from apple while mine is in the shop. its going on 3 days straight with the factory charge.
00:46 <@rizen> btw...are you ready to check in those triggers?
00:46 < ckotil> i want to keep this phone...
00:46 < ckotil> sort of.
00:46 < ckotil> half anyway
00:46 < ckotil> ill get you them tonight.
00:48 < ckotil> sorry for slacking.
00:48 < ckotil> heading home now.
00:51 < perlmonkey2> ckotil: I think you have to recompile and the consensus on #perl appears to agree.
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03:01 <@khenn> diakopter:  send me a PM on IM:  FRANKLD75
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11:31 < wenzu> why is webgui showing wrong time ?
11:45 <+Radix-wrk> your user profile has a timezone setting
11:46 <+Radix-wrk> if you want to change the default timezone, then change the visitor account's timezone in their profile and all new users will then get that as the default
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16:25 < SDuensin> Greetings.
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19:24 <+perlDreamer> Is there an SQL query that will tell you the name of the database that you're working on?
19:25 <@preaction> that's a good question, might want to pop over to #mysql and see if they know (because i don't)
19:26 <+perlDreamer> but preaction, you're my javascript/SQL/webtech goto guy... :)
19:26 <@preaction> there are limits to even my knowledge :(
19:26 <+perlDreamer> how did your talk go last night?
19:26 <@preaction> my greatness lies in knowing those limits
19:26 <@preaction> imho, C-
19:26 <@preaction> i presented the data, i was woefully under-prepared, i had half the amount of materiel i should have had
19:27 <@preaction> i did feel and work with the audience better than i anticipated
19:28 <@preaction> and being my first presentation like that in about 3 years has rekindled all that knowledge from before when i could actually go up in front of people and move them
19:28 <@preaction> so if i start now, i should have some good presentations for the WUC
19:28 <+perlDreamer> that's actually some good motivation for me to get started, too
19:29 <@preaction> also, this presentation was a lot of examples / hands-on sort of things (since perl one-liners is so easy to give examples for)
19:30 <@preaction> the YUI talk i'm giving i can provide examples, but the splitting webgui sites one would be unlikely (which reminds me that's still theoretical, i haven't proven it works yet), and the upgrading webgui i can't really show examples of (since it might take time i don't have to waste)
19:31 <+perlDreamer> Damian Conway has some modules that mockup real time displays of code executing.
19:31 <+perlDreamer> That might help
19:32 <@preaction> like as it runs the code it prints out the code that's running?
19:32 <+perlDreamer> Like, it just spews out whatever you want so that you don't have to worry about delays or mistakes in realtime demos
19:33 <@preaction> ah, so basically faking real scripts
19:33 <+perlDreamer> yup
19:36 <@preaction> what is maintenance mode again? isn't it a special apache instance that runs in place of modperl while modperl is doing the upgrade tasks?
19:36 <+perlDreamer> No, it throws up a splash screen and prevents db access.
19:36 <+perlDreamer> Check out WebGUI.pm
19:41 <+perlDreamer> precation: SELECT DATABASE()
19:43 <+perlDreamer> that probably only works in MySQL, though.
19:47 <@preaction> there's a lot of stuff webgui does that only works in mysql now
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19:55 <@rizen> pd: if it's for the core, then it's ok if it only works in mysql
19:55 <@rizen> if it's supposed to work with the Database Link, then it has to be generic
19:55 <+perlDreamer> It's for a test against the DSN from the webgui config file
19:55 <@rizen> for example, if it's for SQL Report
19:55 <@rizen> then it has to be generic
19:55 <@rizen> that can be mysql specific
19:57 <+perlDreamer> The big goal is the fixing of the SQLForm privileges bug
19:57 <@preaction> to prevent messing with the WebGUI database? or just to give them a stern warning that they can (and probably will) screw up their system?
19:57 <@rizen> SQLForm is mysql only
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21:13 < perlmonkey2> quiet here today.
21:15 < SDuensin> Shhh
21:27 <@preaction> it's so quiet i can't hear myself think!
21:36 < SDuensin> Nice.  The installation docs I'm writing have a link to the IMDB entry for "Aliens".  How many enterprise software projects can claim that?
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22:15 < perlmonkey2> SDuensin: I think that needs an explanation (the aliens link).
22:20 < SDuensin> The docs say that if you already have some of the tools installed and you just tweak them instead of following my instructions that the best thing to do is "...take off and nuke the site from orbit.  It's the only way to be sure."
22:20 < SDuensin> I also have a section on the Care and Feeding of Your New IDE.
22:20 <@rizenaway> care and feeding of your SD
22:21 < SDuensin> Hey!  You're supposed to be away!
22:21 <@rizenaway> i'm here for 5 min
22:21 < SDuensin> Oh yea.  Sure.  Just long enough to harass people.  :-P
22:21 < SDuensin> Hey, my boss in the next office is working with WebGUI.  She's loving it.  :-D
22:47 <@rizenaway> bah...she'd like it better if she had webgui desktop
22:48 < SDuensin> Well, she DOES love ZK Desktop.  :-P
23:38 < perlmonkey2> WebGUI is going to be ported to ZKDesktop?
23:42 < SDuensin> I wish.
23:43 < SDuensin> rizenaway and I were talking about writing *another* desktop for it that doesn't rely on Java and Tomcat.
23:45 < perlmonkey2> Should wait for Perl 6
23:45 < SDuensin> Could be a long wait.
23:45 <@preaction> which has turned into vaporware?
23:46 <@preaction> will it be released before Duke Nukem Forever?
23:46 < SDuensin> hehe
23:46 < perlmonkey2> I thought it was on schedule for December.
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23:47 <@preaction> you mean "before christmas"?
23:48 <@preaction> before christmas seems to be the Perl world's way of saying "you'll get it when you get it"
23:49 < SDuensin> He didn't say WHICH December.
23:51 < SDuensin> Ut oh.  The new server I just ordered is 64 bit Linux.  Time to rebuild the WRE.  <sigh>
23:51 < diakopter> perlmonkey2: you can help with Perl 6, if you want.
23:51  * SDuensin wants Parrot.  And things to run on it, of course.
23:52 < perlmonkey2> diakopter: First I have a WebGUI project I need to finish.
23:53 < perlmonkey2> diakopter: And I still have a 60 hour work week at work until next Wednesday.
23:53 < diakopter> perlmonkey2: whee!
23:59 < perlmonkey2> diakopter: How do you manage to have time to do FOSS and work a job?
--- Day changed Sat Jul 14 2007
00:00 < SDuensin> Gotta get 'em to play together.  My job let me release ZK Desktop as FOSS, so I get paid to maintain it.
00:00 <@preaction> dedication and lack of a social life, like the rest of us
00:01 < diakopter> perlmonkey2: heh :P ... I don't *do* FOSS, truly.  I just help do admin junk.  like keep out the spammers from #perl6.  or buying domain names.  or doing other enabling stuff.
00:01 < diakopter> preaction++ # those too.
00:02 < perlmonkey2> diakopter: That sounds like something even a monkey could do......a perlmonkey
00:02 < diakopter> well sure
00:02 < diakopter> there are plenty of tasks like that that still need attention.
00:02 < diakopter> admin junk is never ending.
00:03 < perlmonkey2> well, I have a 7.27 deadline for the 7.4 release, so I'll talk to you about it after then.
00:03 < diakopter> perlmonkey2: get off irc and finish your wG project! :P
00:03 < perlmonkey2> diakopter: No, I document until 5, then finish wG.
00:03 < diakopter> ahhh
00:04 < perlmonkey2> and irc is much more fun then documentation.
00:05  * diakopter is readying a wG(svn-latest) install for a site that literally 25 domain names (will) point to.  including perl6.com and perlsix.com, and tons of variants.
00:05 < perlmonkey2> operator's manual, installiation manual, trouble shooting guide, QA'ing the code comments.  A one man shop means one man gets to do all the crud work too.
00:05 < perlmonkey2> 25 virtual hosts?
00:05 <@preaction> may want to avoid svn-latest, there are lots of untested features there (even though those features are awesomecore)
00:07 < diakopter> yes, but all redirecting (or rewriteruleing, haven't decided) to various paths within the main site.
00:07 < diakopter> preaction: I can handle it.
00:07 < diakopter> if i find a bug, I'll nopaste a patch here.
00:08 <@preaction> or buglist (someone may not be here to get your patch)
00:08 < SDuensin> Outta here!   Headed home.  Later!
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00:12 < diakopter> now... others may veto the use of wG for these sites... ;) and demand a more CPAN-ish web application platform, but whatever; I'm setting it up anyway for now.
00:15 < diakopter> oh, that reminds me, I'll need to make a custom auth method that uses Apache2 htpasswd lists... unless someone has already contributed one.
00:16 < diakopter> er, I take that back, the credentials are also in a sqlite3 db
00:16 < diakopter> that's easier.
00:16 <@preaction> i don't believe i've seen one, but the htpasswd list would be a nice addition (the auth system is kinda ugly atm, i'm trying to fix a bug in it right now)
00:17 < diakopter> preaction: which bug
00:18 <@preaction> there's a bug where deactiveAccountConfirm returns a WebGUI::User object (instead of the login form)
00:18 <@preaction> i would assume if i explicitly return undef; from that sub in WebGUI::Auth, it would work
00:18 <@preaction> but i'm trying to make a nice message saying "username has been deactivated."
00:19 <@preaction> but it seems that calling $self->displayLogin would require me to know things about the subclasses, which is impossible
00:19 <@preaction> example: the WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI->displayLogin has no arguments (while WebGUI::Auth->displayLogin has method, and vars arguments)
00:20 <@preaction> i lied, wG::Auth::WebGUI has one argument, the method
00:20 <@preaction> no wait, it's the message itself
00:20 <@preaction> god... not documented...
00:21 <@preaction> the problem being is this the same prototype as Auth::LDAP? or Auth::MyCompany?
00:22 <@preaction> worse: if i change it, what API will i break?
00:27 < diakopter> preaction: have you yourself seen the error message in question that results from deactivateAccountConfirm returning a WebGUI::User object?  or only user-reported?
00:28 <@preaction> i've seen it
00:28 <@preaction> it shows: WebGUI::User(0xblah)
00:28 < diakopter> when you deactivated yourself, or some other user.
00:28 <@preaction> yourself
00:28 < diakopter> oh... patch forthcoming.
00:42 < diakopter> http://rafb.net/p/Dd3h5Q41.html
00:44 <@preaction> k, seems simple enough
00:44 < diakopter> well, er
00:44 < diakopter> forgot about the api difference there
00:44 < diakopter> insert 'login', after displayLogin( :D
00:44 <@preaction> yeah, i'm thinking it won't work just yet to have that message
00:45 <@preaction> because using an explicit "login" doesn't allow for other auth subclasses to specify different login methods, and calling $self->displayLogin goes first to that subclass which (the WebGUI Auth one for example) has a different prototype than the Auth.pm superclass
00:46 <@preaction> so it would require fixing the API, which afaik i can't do until the API unfreeze
00:47 < diakopter> okay, then this: http://rafb.net/p/ZfYzLE81.html
00:49 <@preaction> that plus an explicit return undef in the Auth.pm should do it
00:49 < diakopter> shouldn't need to change anything in the Auth.pm:deactivateAccountConfirm()
00:50 < diakopter> since none of its callers care what it returns
00:50 < diakopter> or, shouldn't at least.
00:50 <@preaction> if they don't care, then they won't care that i explicitly return undef instead of returning the webgui user object
00:50 < diakopter> true :D
00:53 < diakopter> bbl
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09:25 < diakopter> anyone around?
09:25 <+Radix_> no
09:25 < diakopter> anyone around with svn commit?
09:26 <+Radix_> no
09:26 <+Radix_> ;)
09:26 < diakopter> k; I'll post the patch tomorrow.
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18:05 < perlmonkey2> the hoverHelp property of Wobjects now takes a template id instead of plain text?
18:07 < perlmonkey2> Bah, duh, no. 
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19:04 < perlmonkey2> So I've never designed webpages in Linux before (I've always had access to Dreamweaver).  If you use *nix only, what's your favorite HTML designer tool?
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19:55 <+Radix_> vi
19:55 <@rizenaway> vim
19:55 -!- rizenaway is now known as rizen
19:56 -!- rizen is now known as rizen-in-out
20:14 < perlmonkey2> Can someone point me at an ajaxified wobject?
20:20 <@rizen-in-out> none of them use YUI yet, that's why we decided to standardize...cuz they were all using their own stuff....but
20:20 <@rizen-in-out> Dashboard
20:20 <@rizen-in-out> Project Management
20:20 <@rizen-in-out> Time Tracker
20:43 < perlmonkey2> rizen-in-out: Looks like your AJAX code is kept in extras.  Should I just throw the complete YUI into extras?
20:43 < perlmonkey2> oh.
20:43 < perlmonkey2> nevermind.
20:43 <@rizen-in-out> it is
20:43 < perlmonkey2> I see it :)
20:50 < perlmonkey2> For the survey, I a survey admin selects that the survey/quiz is a multi-session, I'm going to add a choice of length of time from start and also a hard datestamp, at which point the user will no longer be able to complete the survey/quiz.  Sound reasonable?
20:51 < perlmonkey2> Put that logic into "response.isComplete"
20:53 < perlmonkey2> s/ I / if /
20:59 <@rizen-in-out> yup
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22:47 <+perlDreamer> Anyone home?
22:55 < perlmonkey2> kind of
22:55 <+perlDreamer> By chance, do you have any idea what an Oracle DSN for the DBI would look like?
22:55 < perlmonkey2> mocking up the pages and JS for the ajax survey before I port them to WebGUI.
22:56 <@preaction> iirc oracle can use the ODBC driver, but otherwise i don't think oracle has a working DBD anymore
22:56 < perlmonkey2> hmm.....I would have to fire up my XP box which has my backups from an old job where I connected to Oracle.  But I think it was very similiar.
22:56 <+perlDreamer> okay
22:57 <+perlDreamer> I'm moving some of the functionality out of the SQL Form into the DatabaseLink.
22:57 <+perlDreamer> Things like finding the database name from the DSN and determining privileges.
22:57 <@preaction> www.orafaq.com/faqperl.htm
22:57 <+perlDreamer> That way they can be tested and kept track of.
22:57 <+perlDreamer> preaction: thanks
23:00 < perlmonkey2> oracle uses a normal dsn with "Oracle" as the driver name.  so 'dbi:Oracle:database=db;host=localhost;port=666',uid,pwd
23:00 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2: many thanks
23:02 < perlmonkey2> Which requires DBD::Oracle, which preaction says is flaky?
23:02 <@preaction> i don't know
23:02 <+perlDreamer> I think he said unmaintained.
23:02 <@preaction> i don't know why Frank needed to use Java instead of Perl for this migration we had to do before
23:03 <@preaction> perhaps it's just non-free
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23:17 < perlmonkey2> Someone how my www.host.com.conf has been converted into a JSON format.  Anyway to revert it?
23:18 < SDuensin> No idea dude.  :-(
23:18 < SDuensin> Got my own issues here.
23:18  * SDuensin is trying to build the WRE on RHEL x64.
23:20 <@preaction> perlmonkey2: it's supposed to be JSON
23:21 <@preaction> starting, i want to say, with 6.99
23:23 < perlmonkey2> preaction: So after initial configuration, it is converted to JSON.  Cool. 
23:23 < perlmonkey2> SDuensin: Wow.  That doesn't sound like fun at all.  apreqlib?
23:24 < SDuensin> I have no idea.  Fails building perl.  I think my libs are in the wrong place.  Complains about all the math functions.
23:24 <@preaction> perlmonkey2: no, new installs of 6.99-7.x should come with JSON config files. or are we not talking about the WebGUI config file?
23:24 < perlmonkey2> I think you misspelled "building perl" which should better be spelled "Fails because for some crazy reason I'm doing a full rebuild of Perl when RHEL comes with 5.8.8".
23:25 <@preaction> perlmonkey2: the WRE comes with its own Perl, its own everything
23:25 < SDuensin> perlmonkey2 - Trying to build the WRE.
23:25 < perlmonkey2> preaction: We are.  and I'm just retarded.  The comments in the webgui.conf.example through me off.  I'm just not used to seeing JSON outside of javascript.
23:26 < perlmonkey2> SDuensin: you have my most sincere sympathies.
23:26 <@preaction> the idea being you can just install the bare minimum system, download the WRE, get GNU make and GCC and you can compile a working WebGUI system
23:26 < perlmonkey2> s/through/threw/
23:26 < SDuensin> preaction - That's a great theory.  :-P
23:27 <@preaction> it's probably complaining about the math libs because they're all 64bit, you may have to point Perl to the correct place for your 32-bit compatibility libs
23:29 < SDuensin> Greek, dude.  This is the first 64 bit box I've worked with.
23:30 <@preaction> 64bit boxes have the 32bit libraries installed along with a translation layer for the kernel, somewhere on your system are those libraries
23:30 <@preaction> either that or you have to find a 64bit perl
23:30 <@preaction> it's greek to me too, i don't know thing one about compiling programs and finding dependancies
23:30 < SDuensin> How does the WRE know which one it's building?
23:30 <@preaction> there are flags to GCC in the build.sh script
23:31 < SDuensin> Yea.  I was poking around in there.
23:37  * perlmonkey2 stabs spectre in the neck.  Why won't you stop dieing and write to webgui.log
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03:23 < diakopter> testEnvironment.pl is missing HTML::TagCloud
03:24 < diakopter> er, no it's not
03:37  * perlmonkey2 ponders what in WebGUI could use HTML::TagCloud.
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04:24 <+Radix_> the wiki?
04:25 < perlmonkey2> Keyword.pm is the only package that uses HTML::TagCloud it appears.
04:27 < perlmonkey2> Ah, create and modify keywords used by the asset system.  
04:30 <@preaction> new feature that currently is used by the wiki, but may be adapted to other assets (like CS posts)
04:31 < perlmonkey2> rizen-in-out: I have a q about the survey.  I'm going with the flowchart option, but have started poking about the line drawing for connecting nodes.  Putting in some logic to make the lines curve around other questions/answers would be a bit tricky.  So for now, I'll have the lines draw straight over anything in the way and let the user drag things around to keep the flowchart clean. 
04:33 < perlmonkey2> Also, for now, it might appear a bit chunky.  Each q will be a draggable div, but contain a table with the q on top, and answers stacked in rows below.  The user will be able to select an answer and drag it to another question, which will cause a line to be drawn between that answer and question (the answer div will snap back to the original question).
04:35 < perlmonkey2> The flowchart will grow to the right, with forks going vertical (down), although the user will be able to drag them wherever they want.  Answers will default a connection to the next question id, or none at all.  
04:36 < perlmonkey2> Since the flowcharts will quickly cause the screen to scroll, adding q&a's will be done with right click context menus.  Deleting nodes will be done with double click, and will orphan children.
04:37 < perlmonkey2> right click context menus will bring up a dialog with all the options.  
04:38 < perlmonkey2> At least that's how I'm going to prototype the system unless you say otherwise ;)
04:42 < perlmonkey2> I'm just trying to cram in all the functionality for 7.4 and make it pretty, smooth and sexy for 7.4.1
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06:51 <@rizen-in-out> i trust you to do the right thing
06:51 <@rizen-in-out> everything sounds fine to me so far
07:00 < SDuensin> Hey rizen-in-out 
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07:13 < perlmonkey2> cool.  I'm outy for the night.
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19:45 <@rizen-in-out> diakopter r u here?
20:29 < perlmonkey2> Whatever happened to snapcount?
20:31 <@rizen-in-out> he's still around from time to time
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11:51 < l-e-o-n> anyone here ?
11:57 < l-e-o-n> where does webgui creates the "virtualhosts" for apache ?
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13:08 < AMH_bob> l-e-o-n shows little patience
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13:26 <+Radix_> aye, that he does.
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15:45 < SDuensin> Greetings.
15:45 < AMH_bob> Good morning! (You beat me to it)
15:45 < SDuensin> hehe
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16:44 <@rizen-in-out> AMH_bob's speech pattern this morning reads deceptively similar to that of optimus prime
17:00 < AMH_bob> :P
17:01 < AMH_bob> just a co-inkydinky, I haven't seen it yet :D
17:05 <@rizen-in-out> you should...very cool
17:10 < pjesi> I have to write some CRUD pages for an external db, should I start with some of the SQL assets or perhaps just do it in perl as a new asset?
17:12 <@rizen-in-out> depends on what you need
17:12 <@rizen-in-out> SQLForm is pretty good for most CRUD duty
17:12 <@rizen-in-out> but it's not highly templatable
17:13 < pjesi> ok so if layout is not a big concern then SQLForm is the way to go, if I need pretty pages then a custom asset?
17:13 <@rizen-in-out> yup
17:13 < pjesi> ok thanks for the advice
17:13 <@rizen-in-out> also if you need something complex that the SQL Form doesn't handle
17:13 -!- rizen-in-out is now known as rizen
17:14 < pjesi> I doubt that is going to be the case here :)
17:44 <@rizen> anybody around that wants to help with a bit of javascript debugging?
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18:02 < AMH_bob> for which part do you need help....
18:03 < AMH_bob> (AMH_henry wanted to know more... we're tempted to help)
18:03 < AMH_bob> @rizen: ?
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18:08 < diakopter> rizen: yay; javascript debuggin
18:10 <@rizen> sorry was on the phone
18:11 <@rizen> ok if you check out the latest from svn head
18:11 <@rizen> there is a folder called www/extras/styleDesigner/
18:12 <@rizen> then point your browser to the example.html page in that folder
18:12 <@rizen> the problem is that IE doesn't appear to like the color picker
18:12 <@rizen> it's not popping it up
18:12 <@rizen> and it's not throwing an error
18:12 < AMH_bob> Sorry, we don't support IE
18:12 <@rizen> i wish i didn't have to either
18:12 <@rizen> but this is going in the core
18:13 < AMH_henry> I'll take a look at it when i get home (in about ten minutes ;)
18:13 < AMH_bob> ok, than I'm off too, bye!
18:14 <@rizen> thanks guys
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18:28 < diakopter> rizen: IE6 throws an error for me...
18:29 <@rizen> really, can you put it in a pastepin?
18:29 <@rizen> pastebin and link it?
18:29 < diakopter> sure
18:29 < diakopter> but I'd rather fix it real quick first and nopaste a patch ;)
18:30 <@rizen> ok?
18:30 <@rizen> or
18:30 <@rizen> just check in your patch
18:30 < diakopter> the only helpful info it says is: WebguiColorPicker is undefined
18:30 <@rizen> why don't i get that damn error?
18:30 <@rizen> i'm using IE6 as well
18:32 < diakopter> the yellow exclamation point in the bottom left of the status bar?
18:32 <@rizen> no, nothing
18:32 < diakopter> hrm; *shrugs*
18:33 <@rizen> the other thing that's boggling me is that firefox and safari work just fine
18:33 <@rizen> so this has to be an IE only problem
18:34 < diakopter> oh, I see the problem
18:34 < diakopter> hang on
18:35 < diakopter> fancy JS here... ;)
18:35 < diakopter> currying and so forth
18:37 <@rizen> currying?
18:37 <@rizen> i'm trying to follow Yahoo!'s design guidelines for javascript by doing encapsulated objects and whatnot
18:38 <@rizen> i figure they know 10,000 times what i do about javascript so i should follow them
18:40 <@rizen> ok so the problem appears to be with the color picker code rather than the style designer
18:40 <@rizen> cuz the color picker doesn't pop anywhere in webgui when using IE
18:41 < diakopter> right
18:42 <@rizen> sorry, i didn't check that before cuz i thought i tested it in IE when I put the new color picker into the system
18:42 <@rizen> i guess i didn't test IE though since it's obviously not working
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18:47 < diakopter> well no, the reason it's not working there is you didn't change webguiColorPicker to WebguiColorPicker everywhere
18:47 <@rizen> then how come it works in firefox and safari?
18:48 <@rizen> are they case insensitive?
18:48 < diakopter> well, a reason.
18:48 <@rizen> in addition
18:48 <@rizen> if i grep for the lower case version
18:48 <@rizen> it doesn't exist
18:48 <@rizen> so where didn't i change it?
18:50 < diakopter> rizen: https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/checkout/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Form/Color.pm
18:50 <@rizen> that's actually changed too
18:50 <@rizen> just not checked in yet
18:50 < diakopter> oh; heh :)
18:50 <@rizen> but you don't need to test there
18:50 <@rizen> just use example.html
18:50 <@rizen> in the colorpicker folder
18:50 <@rizen> it doesn't work in IE
18:50 <@rizen> and throws no errors
18:52 <@rizen> i should have mentioned i've only checked in what i needed to to show you this problem
18:55 <@rizen> methinks that IE isn't even parsing colorpicker.js
18:55 <@rizen> if you just put a window.alert() at the top of the file it doesn't even pop up
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18:59 <@rizen> found one problem
19:00 <@rizen> checked in
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19:09 <@rizen> ok, now that the comma that was causing it not to load the js file is gone
19:09 <@rizen> i'm able to execute the init() method
19:09 <@rizen> but the display method doesn't do anything
19:09 <@rizen> never even gets called
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19:32 <@rizen> ok, i've narrowed it down a bit further and have discovered that IE dies in the display method at ddPicker = Dom.get("ddPicker");
19:33 <+crythias> you can pick your nose...
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19:39 <@rizen> well that's ****ed up
19:39 <@rizen> if i change the variable so it doesn't have the same name as the div id, then the picker shows up
19:57 < diakopter> ahhhhhh; silly IE and its aliasing global JS variables to each DOM node id.
19:57 < diakopter> good find...
19:58 <@rizen> are you kidding me?
19:58 <@rizen> that's a "feature"
19:58 <@rizen> i still have one problem left though
19:59 <@rizen> in IE, the color shader doesn't work on the picker
19:59 <@rizen> it's just always grey, which is the background image
20:01 <@rizen> actually i think i know what that is too
20:02 <@rizen> yup..fixed
20:08 < diakopter> dunno how you did it, but  I did  if (YAHOO.util.Event.isIE) {
20:09 <@rizen> i did if (navigator.appName == 'Microsoft Internet Explorer') {
20:09 <@rizen> but I'll change it to that
20:17 < diakopter> oo oo 
20:17 < diakopter> (found it.. committing)
20:19 < diakopter> aw drat, you beat me to it, yet agin.  still you should wrap the correctPNG() call in that isIE conditional.
20:20 <@rizen> why?
20:21 <@rizen> i put the wrapper in the correctPNG call instead
20:21 <@rizen> that way it's only done if it's IE no matter where you call correctPNG from
20:21 <@rizen> thinking of future scenarios
20:21 < diakopter> oh; i missed that diff
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22:09 <@rizen> in CSS i can do  .navigation A { color: orange; }
22:10 <@rizen> how do i accomplish the same thing using javascript
22:11 < preaction_> getElementsByTagName("a")
22:11 < preaction_> assuming you know where .navigation is
22:12 < preaction_> i believe Yui has a getElementsByClassName you can use
22:12 <@rizen> so lets say it was #navigation instead
22:12 <@rizen> Dom.get("navigation").getElementsByTagName("a")
22:12 < SDuensin> Hey gang.  Dang, what a morning.
22:12 <@rizen> then loop over the list
22:12 < preaction_> so that'd be a loop over document.getElementById("navigation").getElementsByTagName("a")
22:12 <@rizen> and apply the style?
22:12 < preaction_> should work
22:13 <@rizen> ok
22:13 <@rizen> i'll give that a try
22:13 <@rizen> i was hoping there would be a nice shortcut
22:13 <@rizen> but i guess this isn't too bad
22:16 <@rizen> ok one more
22:16 <@rizen> what about
22:16 <@rizen> #navigation A:visited
22:17 <@rizen> would that just be:
22:17 <@rizen> tags[i].vlinkColor
22:20 <@rizen> crap...your loop idea doesn't work
22:20 <@rizen> http://rafb.net/p/9gF9Us56.html
22:20 <@rizen> that's what i have
22:20 <@rizen> any other ideas?
22:20 <@rizen> also "this.value" comes from a case statement that this thing is inside of
22:21 <@rizen> and when i say it doesn't work i mean that the color doesn't get set, and no error is thrown
22:32 < preaction_> tags[i].style.color
22:35 <@rizen> damn i'm an idiot 
22:35 <@rizen> also..damn javascript sux
22:35 <@rizen> it should have thrown an error
22:37 < preaction_> i love that FF allows trailing commas but IE barfs on them, usually with no error
22:37 <@rizen> had that problem this morning
22:37 <@rizen> firefox, safari, and opera all did the right thing
22:37 <@rizen> ie of course didn't
22:38 < preaction_> there is an MS script debugger for JS, but it's rather... difficult
22:38 < preaction_> works in IE7 that i know, i think it works in IE6 as well
22:41 <@rizen> yeah and you need to know MS Office to get it
22:41 <@rizen> s/know/own/
22:42 < preaction_> really? i've got it and use it, even considering how much it sucks
22:42 <@rizen> it's supposedly on the MS Office CD
22:42 <@rizen> i couldn't find a download for it anywhere
22:42 < preaction_> http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2004/10/26/247912.aspx
22:44 < diakopter> or for those who don't want to validate their Windows license: http://download.microsoft.com/download/winscript56/Install/1.0a/NT45XP/EN-US/scd10en.exe
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23:33 <+perlDreamer> On the Contrib's page, the PBWG icon still points to Radix_, but the Ad Space pulls up Yung.
23:35 <@rizen> that image wasn't even supposed to be there anymore
23:35 <@rizen> removed
23:37 <+perlDreamer> rizen: have you decided if you're coming out to OSCON to pick up your sourceforge award or not?
23:38 <@rizen> we haven't won it yet
23:39 <+perlDreamer> eh, it's just a matter of time
23:39 <@rizen> regardless though, i can't actually come out...i have a client upgrade to do that weekend
23:39  * diakopter is attending Oscon
23:39 <@rizen> methinks that 2006 WebGUI Contributor of the Year should accept the award on our behalf
23:40 <+perlDreamer> Martin is coming to OSCON?
23:40 <@rizen> hehe...no silly
23:41 <+perlDreamer> If he's not going to be there, I guess I could do it.
23:48 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@64.sub-75-204-153.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
--- Day changed Tue Jul 17 2007
00:10  * perlDreamer makes a note not to wear t-shirt and gym shorts on Tuesday
00:13 <+perlDreamer> bug--
00:13 <@rizen> bug++
00:13 <@rizen> have to introduce them as fast as you fix them so we're not out of balance
00:13 <@rizen> =)
00:14 <+perlDreamer> I'm hoping that there's a limiting factor to my theory.
00:14 <+perlDreamer> Fixing them slowly may allow the balance point to be reset.
00:14 <@rizen> from now on also tell me how hard the bug was for you to fix, so i can introduce one that's equally hard
00:15 <+perlDreamer> Just stuff in anything JS related.  That will be hard enough.
00:15 <@rizen> i've been fixing JS bugs in my new code all day so that you wouldn't have to fix them
00:15 <@rizen> i guess i should have left them in
00:16 <+perlDreamer> When do the plainblack.com bugs get fixed? ;)
00:18 <@rizen> as someone gets to them
00:18 <@rizen> generally as they come in i assign them either to myself or someone else
00:19 <@rizen> sometimes they'll fall through the cracks as we work on other projects
00:19 <@rizen> regardless though, graham is supposed to be fixing bugs every day
00:19 <@rizen> Haarg....are you here?
00:19 <@rizen> if not, why not?
00:20 <+perlDreamer> There are at least two easy bugs to close on the boards
00:20 <+perlDreamer> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/link-and-javascript-headers-output-in-wrong-place#neN0aD9fHhDQZoqUBG8_-A
00:20 <+perlDreamer> which is content chunking, not a bug
00:20 <@Haarg> yeah, i'm here
00:20 <+perlDreamer> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/polls-not-working-on-os-x-intel#XL71AxwxkpvKi5to2Iu7kA
00:20 <+perlDreamer> which is "tough stuff it doesn't work"
00:20 <+perlDreamer> portability
00:20 <@rizen> please note what colin is saying and make them a priority to close out some bugs
00:25 <@rizen> pd, until you mentioned it today, i didn't think anybody was even reading the black blog
00:30 <+perlDreamer> Have do the logs say?
00:30 <+perlDreamer> s/Have/What/
00:30 < diakopter> I've read every entry...
00:31 < diakopter> but that's why I spoke up just now.  getLineage isn't working worth beans on this wG (svn trunk) installation.
00:31 < diakopter> that's not why, I mean.  <sigh>
00:32 <+perlDreamer> Does the test pass?
00:32 <+perlDreamer> t/Asset/AssetLineage
00:32 < diakopter> good q
00:32 <+perlDreamer> actually, just do a prove -r Asset
00:32 <+perlDreamer> run them all!
00:32 <+perlDreamer> I think Lineage has been static for a while
00:33 < diakopter> hmm; gotta come up with a non-destructive WEBGUI_CONFIG
00:33 < preaction_> i changed some of it in 7.3.0, but other than that i think lineage hasn't changed much
00:33 < diakopter> or are the tests non destructive?
00:33 <+perlDreamer> The tests are not non-destructive.
00:33 < preaction_> the tests are supposed to be non-destructive
00:33 <+perlDreamer> So you have two options
00:33 <+perlDreamer> 1) Dump, test, restore
00:33 < diakopter> dump it is
00:33 <+perlDreamer> 2) Create a disposable database
00:33 <+perlDreamer> and site uploads area
00:34 < diakopter> ick ick ick ;)
00:34 <+perlDreamer> We could make that a goal for OSCON
00:34 <+perlDreamer> Completely non-destructive tests
00:34 <+perlDreamer> It shouldn't be that hard to achieve
00:34 < diakopter> although I suppose option 2 is rather more one-time than the other.
00:35 <+perlDreamer> It's what I do, along with the old "resetdev" script
00:35 < diakopter> I wish Test.pm would just prompt for mysql root password, and create its own temp dirs and temp db, importing create.sql etc.
00:36 < preaction_> http://webgui.org/user_contributions/user_contributions/miscellaneous/switch_webgui_pl----switch-between-webgui-source-directories <- this is what i do. let me upload my latest fixes to it
00:37 <+perlDreamer> diakopter, that's a great idea, but it would prompt on EVERY test.  Need to use Test::Class or something similar.
00:37 <+perlDreamer> Maybe a create test sandbox script?
00:37 < diakopter> preaction_: thanks
00:38 <+crythias> or maybe just read the configs from mytest.inc.php
00:38 <+crythias> oh. um. oops
00:39 < diakopter> crythias: boo-yuh
00:39 <+perlDreamer> afk for 15
00:39 <+crythias> I meant. mysql-test.conf
00:39 <+crythias> boo-yah
00:41 < preaction_> done, now it enables/disables both the modperl and modproxy entries of the WRE. it's configurable enough to allow for almost any Apache+WebGUI combination
00:41 < preaction_> it's kinda ugly code, i know. I should be using File::Spec
00:43 < preaction_> but all you do is switch to the WebGUI you want to use, and use the WRE's addsite script to add a site to that webgui. then whenever you switch, the script will enable/disable the sites that are configured with that version of the webgui source
00:43 < diakopter> Enviroment variable WEBGUI_CONFIG must be set.
00:43 < diakopter> Enviro      ment
00:46 <+crythias> kewl. does that come in sugar free?
00:47 <+crythias> double your pleasure... double your fun.. with rizen's... enviroment gum.
00:48 < diakopter> perlDreamer: nope, AssetLineage DIED. FAILED tests 3, 37, 39, 44, 46, 48, 50, 55-56, 58, 68-72
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00:50 < diakopter> the rest of Asset* tests seem okay, except AssetPackage failed tests 3-7.
00:51 <+perlDreamer> let me do an update
00:52 < diakopter> note that this is stock create.sql, upgraded from 7.3.20svn to 7.4svn
00:53 <+perlDreamer> My test run is clean
00:53  * diakopter tries prove verbose
00:53 <+perlDreamer> what does testEnvironment.pl --simpleReport say?
00:54 < diakopter> all OKs
00:54 <+perlDreamer> my setup is the same as yours
00:55 < diakopter> why would any of that be messed up?  The site generally works.  But no children are ever shown on Layouts, and manageAssets' crumbtrail and child listing are always blank.
00:55 <+perlDreamer> WRE?
00:55 < diakopter> no
00:56 < diakopter> MySQL 5.0.41a-1 (debian)
00:56 <+perlDreamer> oh
00:56 <+perlDreamer> that may be the problem right there
00:56 <+perlDreamer> I've seen bugs posted about using mysql's biggen than 5.0.32
00:56 < diakopter> lovely...
00:57 <+perlDreamer> maybe it was on the boards...
00:57 <@Haarg> http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/mysql-5.0.41
00:57 <+perlDreamer> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/mysql-5/re-mysql-5.0.41#IjsCDJd-hkr3jgCvhwDjLA
00:58 <@Haarg> it's a mysql bug
00:58 < diakopter> Haarg: thanks.
00:58 <+perlDreamer> Is it easy for you to downgrade, diakopter?
00:59 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, does that mean that 5.0.42 and above will be okay?
00:59 < diakopter> eh, maybe.  the whole machine is Debian Sid.  Lemme see what's in the package pipeline...
00:59 < diakopter> 5.0.44
01:01 < diakopter> well, there's 5.1.19beta-1 in debian/experimental, released Jun 11
01:02 <+perlDreamer> We have an easy way to validate it now, via the test suite.
01:03 < diakopter> and 5.1.19 upstream does include that patch.... supposedly...
01:04 <+perlDreamer> Install it then run prove across the whole test suite.  Make sure that CODE_COP=0 and it should take about 15 minutes to check everything.
01:09 < diakopter> sir yes sir
01:09 < diakopter> I wonder if the 60 other users/admins of this machine will mind...
01:09 <+perlDreamer> this is on feather?
01:10 < diakopter> sshhh
01:10 < diakopter> well now that's weird.
01:11 -!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@ip70-189-104-178.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #webgui
01:13 <+perlDreamer> Anyone happen to know the URl for the ImageMagick API docs?
01:22 <@rizen> http://www.imagemagick.org/script/perl-magick.php
01:23 <+perlDreamer> thanks!
01:23 <@rizen> pd, how are you coming with removing the aux help files in 7.4
01:23 <@rizen> two weeks left until release
01:24 <+perlDreamer> Do you know when the files were last updated in the wiki, approximately?
01:24 <+perlDreamer> That way I can track down any changes that need to be moved before they're lost.
01:25 <+perlDreamer> btw. YUI does not play well with SeaMonkey
01:26 <+perlDreamer> SeaMonkey 1.0.3 on RHEL 4 64-bit
01:29 <@rizen> may
01:29 <@rizen> what is seamonkey?
01:29 <+perlDreamer> Mozilla
01:29 <+perlDreamer> Mozilla "abandoned" mozilla, so someone picked it up and started calling it seamonkey
01:30 <+perlDreamer> It's the old integrated suite, instead of being busted up like Firefox, thunderbird, sunbird, etc.
01:31 <+perlDreamer> And we're pulling everything but hoverHelp, template variables and...
01:32 <@rizen> hoverhelp and template variables stay
01:32 <@rizen> all other pages go
01:33 <@rizen> if seamonkey is based on firefox then it should work fine...regardless webgui only supports what yahoo calls A class browsers
01:33 <+perlDreamer> ok
01:34 <+perlDreamer> So the add/edit article page goes, but the hoverHelp behind it stays?
01:34 <@rizen> http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/articles/gbs/
01:34 <+perlDreamer> and the Macro pages should be stripped down to template variables ony
01:34 <@rizen> right
01:34 <@rizen> on both counts
01:36 <+perlDreamer> The autogenerated lists of assets, macros, workflow activities, template parsers also go
01:36 <@rizen> yup
01:37  * perlDreamer whips out his vorpal vim editor
01:37 <@rizen> i guess you could leave the page that shows what macros are enabled or whatever
01:37 <@rizen> but the actual description pages should no longer be there
01:37 <+perlDreamer> Okay, so no linking inside of there.
01:41 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI
01:48 <+perlDreamer> rizen: I'm going to change the name on all the Macro pages that remain to Macro Template Variables, just to be clear
01:48 <+perlDreamer> sound okay?
01:51 <+perlDreamer> If all Help content is either HoverHelp or template variables, we don't need the body tag anymore.
01:59 <+perlDreamer> But existing docs for custom software may use it, so probably better to leave it in
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02:39  * diakopter still downloads mysql5.1.19beta
02:42 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat086.mxim.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
02:44 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui
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04:13 <@preaction> i have a healthy respect for whomever wrote the Navigation asset... I've just basically re-implemented the same tree-building algorithm in my client project...
04:13 <@preaction> the varying ways to represent these things... JS and HTML both require a completely different set of instructions on how to re-create the tree from a flat array...
05:17 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui
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06:47 < diakopter> yes, upgrading to mysql-server-5.1.19beta-1 fixed http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/mysql-5.0.41
07:10 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."]
--- Log closed Tue Jul 17 09:55:58 2007
--- Log opened Tue Jul 17 09:56:02 2007
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16:06 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@5.sub-75-204-184.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI
16:08 < SDuensin> Greetings.
16:09 < AMH_bob> Good morning!
16:10 < SDuensin> Hey AMH_bob 
16:11 < AMH_bob> Hi Scott!
16:16 <@rizen> howdy peeps
16:18 < SDuensin> Hey rizen 
16:20 < SDuensin> rizen, you know of anyone using the WRE on RHEL4 x64?
16:21 <@rizen> no
16:22 < SDuensin> Nuts.
16:25 < diakopter> rizen: I don't see a reference to mod_header(s?) in svn's /wrebuild - was it removed from the mod_proxy.conf at some point?
16:25 <@rizen> no
16:25 < diakopter> hum; I'll keep looking
17:12 -!- l-e-o-n [n=leon@as2p9.access.maltanet.net] has joined #webgui
17:12 < l-e-o-n> anyone here ?
17:17 < SDuensin> Nope.  Nobody at all.
17:17 < l-e-o-n> ah ok then... lol
17:17 < l-e-o-n> u can help me ?
17:18 < SDuensin> Probably not, but I'll try!
17:19 < l-e-o-n> i've installed webgui 7.3.20 wre.. and i had another apache instance running.. but the apache of webgui is on top of it and can't start my other apache
17:20 < diakopter> l-e-o-n: then what's your question
17:20 < l-e-o-n> how can i bind webgui apache to run on an ip
17:20 < l-e-o-n> so i'll bind the other apache on another ip
17:21 < l-e-o-n> cause it's ignoring anything from its httpd.conf
17:21 < SDuensin> It uses modproxy.conf and modperl.conf.
17:21 < SDuensin> (Or something close to that.)
17:23  * diakopter continues to fight with mysql 5.1.19 on debian sid and DBD::mysql
17:23 < diakopter> cpan
17:23 < diakopter> ugh
17:23  * SDuensin is fighting with WRE on RHEL x64.
17:23 < l-e-o-n> can't find any ip's binded on modproxy and modperl
17:23  * SDuensin is losing badly.
17:24 < l-e-o-n> i'm fighting with wre on rhel too but to bind it to an ip grr
17:24 < l-e-o-n> lol
17:24 < diakopter> fun!  Couldn't call method deleteList on asset for url: home Root cause: Transactions not supported by database at /usr/lib/perl5/DBI.pm line 1665.
17:24 < SDuensin> l-e-o-n, look in /data/wre/prereqs/apache/conf
17:25 < SDuensin> It has http.modproxy.conf and http.modperl.conf in it.
17:25 < SDuensin> Find the "Listen" line in those files.
17:25 -!- chatito28 [n=david@130.156.38.11] has joined #webgui
17:26 < chatito28> good morning i am new using webgui and i am trying to get a calendar working can anybody help?
17:27 < diakopter> whee; that fixed it.  (apt-get install libmysqlclient15off=5.1.19beta-1   and then cpan force install DBD::mysql)
17:27 < SDuensin> chatito28 - I've not used that asset, sorry.
17:27 < SDuensin> diakopter - Congrats!
17:27 < SDuensin> diakopter - Now fix mine.  :-)
17:28 <@Haarg> what kind of trouble are you having chatito28?
17:28 < diakopter> rizen: I think the mod_headers stuff got dropped from the port80 apache at some point
17:29 < chatito28> i am trying to add a a event calendar
17:29 < diakopter> not that it matters too much to me; I'm not using the wre.
17:29 < chatito28> and i don't know how to
17:29 < diakopter> chatito28: what version of WebGUI do you have
17:29  * SDuensin longs for the WRE.
17:29 < l-e-o-n> i bindend webgui to run on ip 209.62.91.100.. 
17:29 < l-e-o-n> http://209.62.91.98/
17:30 < l-e-o-n> ah shit
17:30 < l-e-o-n> it seem to work now
17:30 < chatito28> 7.3.18
17:30 < l-e-o-n> lol
17:30 < chatito28> i was looking for a how to or a manual.. but i can't find anything
17:33 < diakopter> da manual is fo sale
17:33 < SDuensin> https://www.plainblack.com/store/services/books2/webgui-content-managers-guide
17:40  * diakopter loves save-and-commit
17:43 < chatito28> my company bough support for webgui , can i see guides with this?
17:47 < diakopter> interesting; I changed this WebGUI site config file, and did *not* restart mod_perl, but the site immediately reflected the change.
17:47 < diakopter> that's a new one
17:48  * diakopter could've sworn the config file was cached permanently by preload.perl
17:51 < diakopter> (the modproxy mod_header line *really* improves admin-mode responsiveness and server load)
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19:16 <+perlDreamer> Morning folks
19:17 <@rizen> morning?
19:17 <@rizen> it's like afternoon or something
19:17 <+perlDreamer> Not in Wisonsin
19:17 <+perlDreamer> You can't fool me, I studied Giograffy
19:17 < diakopter> morning
19:18 <+perlDreamer> But spelling was never my strong poynt
19:18  * diakopter giraffes about
19:21 <+perlDreamer> diakopter, do you want to wiki your mod_header hack?
19:21 < diakopter> well I realized (yet again) that I'm an idiot
19:22 <+perlDreamer> Paraphrasing "The American President", "My idiocy is complex and lies on many levels".
19:22 < diakopter> and that it is still there ..  wre/var/setupfiles/modproxy.conf:   Header set Cache-Control "max-age=36000"
19:25 <+perlDreamer> Great misfortune and woe.
19:25 <+perlDreamer> The SourceForge community awards are Thursday night.
19:32 < diakopter> so they are
19:38 < diakopter> have the winners been announced?  or not till Thursday night?
19:38 <+perlDreamer> Not 'til Thursday night.
19:38 <+perlDreamer> When I'm at rehearsal.
19:39 < diakopter> how could SF rent out the whole Jupiter hotel and invite all of OSCON and offer free drinks?  do the site ads pay that well??!?
19:40 <+perlDreamer> SF also owns Slashdot, ThinkGeek, Linux.com and so on
19:41 < diakopter> oh, I see, all under VA Linux, a publicly traded large company.  gotcha.  plenty of revenue.
19:46 <+perlDreamer> Oodles
19:46 <+perlDreamer> Plus commercial SourceForge, plus support.
19:47 < pjesi> diakopter: was your hacked related to IE6 caching everything internally forever?
19:48 < diakopter> pjesi: no...
19:48 < pjesi> darn..
19:48 < diakopter> unless by everything you mean /extras/*
19:48 < pjesi> nope
19:54 < diakopter> pjesi: is that still a problem?
19:57 < pjesi> indeed it is
19:58 < diakopter> pjesi: is there a bug entry for it?
19:59 < pjesi> I think my co-worker did, I dont have any windows machines here so I can't reproduce the error
20:00 < diakopter> oh
20:01  * pjesi is a university student in a foreign country with very small laptop
20:02 < diakopter> a country foreign to you? or a country foreign to me?
20:03 < pjesi> to me
20:03 < pjesi> I am not in the same country as the company
20:06 < pjesi> well, gotta go bowling!
20:21 <+perlDreamer> If you request the deletion of a file in svn, but don't actually commit, is there a way to cancel the request?
20:24 < diakopter> svn revert theFilename?
20:25 <+perlDreamer> Hey! Thanks, man.
20:25 <+perlDreamer> That worked.
20:25 < diakopter> then make sure svn status doesn't show it D
20:25 <+perlDreamer> You'd think that would be in the SVN book, or in Google, but it isn't.
20:25 <+perlDreamer> Maybe it's so obvious it doesn't need to be... :(
20:25 < diakopter> I bet it's in Google accessible by *some* keyword
20:25 < diakopter> :-P
20:26 <+perlDreamer> it's not in svn undelete or svn cancel delete
20:28 < diakopter> http://www.tigris.org/nonav/scdocs/ddUsingSVN_command-line.html is a lot shorter than svnbook.
20:58 -!- wgGuest01 [n=wgGuest0@h-64-105-49-14.cmbrmaor.covad.net] has joined #webgui
20:59 <+perlDreamer> Welcome, wgGuest01
20:59 -!- wgGuest01 is now known as Dc5e
21:00 < Dc5e> Hey, is anyone here familiar with the commerce in WebGUI?
21:00 <+perlDreamer> somewhat, what are you trying to do with it?
21:00 < Dc5e> well
21:00 < Dc5e> i want to be able to sell some products with it
21:01 < Dc5e> i've set up the products and product macros
21:01 < Dc5e> and when i put in an order using the cash method, the order goes through
21:01 < Dc5e> but on the administrative side, how do i view the order?
21:02 < Dc5e> well, to be more precise, I can view the order in the 'List Transactions' page
21:02 < Dc5e> but is there any way i can edit it? such as change it's status from 'pending' to 'complete' and view where to ship an item?
21:04 <+perlDreamer> good question
21:05 <+perlDreamer> I don't know the answer to it.  I'd recommend posting it on the discussion boards.
21:05 <@preaction> example.com?op=listTransactions (it's under the Commerce tab in the admin console. on the right side menu you'll see List Transactions and List Pending Transactions)
21:05 < Dc5e> yeah, when I get to that page though, it only allows me to delete transactions
21:05 < Dc5e> and 'List Pending Transactions' doesn't work
21:05 < Dc5e> it just brings me to the homepage
21:06 <@preaction> that's a bug: the bug is "listPendingTransactions" is not a valid operation, even though it's referred to
21:07 <@preaction> http://webgui.org/bugs
21:07 <@preaction> (it's not there yet that i know of, if you want to post it)
21:07 <@preaction> most likely all someone has to do is add it to the list in WebGUI::Operation.pm
21:07 < Dc5e> oh ok
21:07 < Dc5e> yeah, because I was wondering about that too, I searched all over the site and saw no mention of it being a bug
21:08 <+perlDreamer> That's a good indication that you're the first :)
21:08 <@preaction> but good idea coming here for us to verify, if you give the buglist all the information i've said someone should be able to fix it in 5-10 minutes (if i'm right about it, at least)
21:09 <+perlDreamer> preaction, you're right, and I've got a fix ready to check in
21:09 < Dc5e> okay
21:10 <@preaction> could you make a patch and attach it to that thread for Dc5e to apply to his WebGUI (so he can get going)?
21:10 <+perlDreamer> Sure.  Dc5e, are you cool with patching your code?  Do you have a hosted server, or run your own?
21:10 < Dc5e> well, right now i'm running on my own
21:10 < Dc5e> but i'm planning to buy the hosting service soon
21:11 <@preaction> it's as simple as: cd /data/WebGUI; patch -p0 < patchfile 
21:11 <@preaction> provided perlDreamer makes the patch out of the same directory (/data/WebGUI)
21:11 <+perlDreamer> I'll provide patch instructions
21:12 <+perlDreamer> rizen: are we scheduled to release .21 tomorrow?
21:12  * preaction goes back into the Collaboration System code, if I'm not back in 2 hours, don't send rescue, just give me a beautiful funeral
21:13 <+perlDreamer> check in Auth i18n first, please?
21:13 <@preaction> that should be done
21:13 <+perlDreamer> Dc5e, give us a holler when you submit that bug.
21:13 < Dc5e> okay
21:13 <@preaction> uhm
21:13 <+perlDreamer> preaction: got it.
21:13 <@preaction> has anyone tried the 7.4 collab system?
21:14 <@preaction> oh, it's been refactored
21:14 <+perlDreamer> Yes
21:14 <+perlDreamer> Inheritable, subclassable now
21:14 <+perlDreamer> To help with the newsletter Asset
21:14 <@preaction> it scared me seeing a 12-line subroutine that i knew should be almost 50
21:15 <@preaction> which sucks because i did that before but apparently forgot to move the changes from a client site into the webgui core. luckily this change and my change can be used together
21:16 <+perlDreamer> Okay, I'm out for lunch for a while.
21:16 <+perlDreamer> Dc5e, I have your bugfix ready to commit.  All we need is your bug report to finish the documentation.
21:18 < Dc5e> okay
21:18 < Dc5e> i just posted the bug
21:26 <+perlDreamer> Fixed, and patch posted
21:26 <+perlDreamer> Now I'm really going to lunch.
21:31  * SDuensin sighs
21:33 < SDuensin> MySQL hates me today.
22:26 <@rizen> yes sir pd, .21 tomorrow
22:26 <@rizen> it may go out slow though cuz i'm teaching graham how to do releases tomorrow
22:28 < SDuensin> Hey, here's a new one...
22:28 < SDuensin> Aspell.so: wrong ELF class
22:29 < SDuensin> Happened during cpan running from testEnvironment.pl.
22:30 <@rizen> if you can figure out how many grasshoppers with wooden legs it would take to kick all of the seeds out of a dill pickle, then i'll tell you how to fix it
22:30 < SDuensin> 42
22:30 <@rizen> nope
22:30 < SDuensin> It is.  You're mistaken.
22:30 <@rizen> hmm..then i guess i'd be mistaken about the other thing too
22:30 < SDuensin> :-P
22:36 < SDuensin> Do I really need Text::Aspell: ?
22:36 <@rizen> you don't need text aspell unless you want to enable webgui spell checking
22:37 < SDuensin> Aww, that'd be nice.  Guess I can worry about it later.
22:40 < SDuensin> Uh, this is bad, isn't it?
22:40 < SDuensin> [root@u15262483 sbin]# . ./setenvironment 
22:40 < SDuensin> [root@u15262483 sbin]# whereis perl
22:40 < SDuensin> perl: /usr/bin/perl /usr/share/man/man1/perl.1.gz
22:42 < SDuensin> Or not.  "which perl" gives the right answer.
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23:53 <@rizen> c of k in the usa
23:53 <+perlDreamer> yo
23:53 <@rizen> hehe...that's soo cool
23:53 <@rizen> oscon, you're going for the whole week?
23:53 <+perlDreamer> Yup.
23:53 <@rizen> man i wish i could go to that
23:54 <+perlDreamer> It's going to be fun.
23:54 <+perlDreamer> I have a lot of hacking to do that week :)
23:54 <@rizen> there's a little something going on at pb that i can't yet talk about that prevents me from going, so i'm going to have to live vicariously through you
23:54 <+perlDreamer> I'll be on IRC and IM as long as batteries allow.
23:55 <+perlDreamer> If you like, put in some requests for sessions to attend and I'll see if I can get to them.
23:55 < diakopter> perlDreamer: we should take turns live blogging...
23:55 <+perlDreamer> Yeah!
23:56 <+perlDreamer> Inbetween hacking the Help...
23:57 <+perlDreamer> rizen: pb changes announced at WUC or sooner?
23:59 <@preaction> are there any enhancements for the packaging system planned? like the ability to ignore revision dates and just take the imported package's version? or a workflow activity to sync packages between sites?
23:59 <@preaction> duh.. search the RFEs
--- Day changed Wed Jul 18 2007
00:00 <@rizen> pd and dk that would be great 
00:00 <@rizen> the private things that are going on now should become public in august with any luck
00:00 <@rizen> preaction yes no yes
00:01 <@rizen> preaction, i'll skype you
00:02 <+perlDreamer> better skype than scalp...
00:12 <+perlDreamer> stupid, accursed, non-intuitive, overly restrictive, broken, non-Vim based, emacs wanna be RTE!
00:17 <@rizen> who wants to do a super simple RFE for me?
00:18 <@rizen> don't everybody jump at once
00:18 <@rizen> diakopter?
00:20 < diakopter> whoosawhat
00:20 < diakopter> sure, why not
00:20 <@rizen> http://www.plainblack.com/user_contributions/user_contributions/miscellaneous/form-codearea-replacement
00:20 <@rizen> add that to the core
00:21 <@rizen> actually
00:21 <@rizen> make sure that the code is an open source license first
00:21 <@rizen> but if it is
00:21 <@rizen> then do it
00:21 < diakopter> WoW
00:22 <@rizen> WoW?
00:22 < diakopter> spiffy
00:22 <@rizen> it is cool
00:22 < diakopter> oh, not World of Warcraft
00:22 < diakopter> it's LGPL
00:22 <@rizen> ok then...add it to the core and test it
00:24 < diakopter> www/extras/codepress like he has it there?
00:24 < diakopter> or somewhere deeper?
00:34 <@preaction> that would probably be best
00:34 <@preaction> (the www/extras/codepress)
00:34 < diakopter> k
00:35 <@preaction> did that say anything about search/replace inside the codearea?
00:36 <@preaction> hmm... that would be nice, but doesn't look like it in the description
00:38 < diakopter> no, doesn't seem to have that feature.
00:38 < diakopter> now if only if could do what subthaedit does... ;)
00:43 <@rizen> that's fine by me
00:53 <+perlDreamer> rizen, do you have 10 minutes to edit my recently submitted Dev Guide to Testing?
00:55 <+perlDreamer> http://www.plainblack.com/community-wiki/developers-guide-to-testing-in-webgui
00:55 <+perlDreamer> oh, and I did a double submit by accident, so could some nice WebGUI.org admin please delete this one
00:55 <+perlDreamer> http://www.plainblack.com/community-wiki/developers-guide-to-testing-in-webgui2
00:56 <@rizen> i'll delete and look
00:57 <+perlDreamer> Thanks
00:57 <+perlDreamer> If I've overstepped any lines, please hack the page, then me.
00:58 <@rizen> oh i'll hack you even if you haven't
00:58 <@rizen> hehe
01:03 <@rizen> there i made some minor edits
01:03 <@rizen> in general it looks great
01:03 <@rizen> and you don't have to ask for my approvla
01:03 <@rizen> approval
01:03 <@rizen> that's the whole idea of a wiki...so everyone can create collaborative knowledge
01:03 <+perlDreamer> Well, I didn't want to set standards for core code without your buyin
01:04 <@rizen> the standards are already set in wgbp
01:04 <@rizen> =)
01:04 <@rizen> you're just telling people how to make sense of it
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01:20 < diakopter> rizen; preaction: the integration of this editor is kind of crappy
01:20 <@preaction> is it fixable? i think i'll defer to JT on this
01:20  * preaction runs
01:20 < diakopter> well it's *extremely* fragile in IE
01:21 < diakopter> barely usable, really.
01:22 < diakopter> I should say, not even usable.
01:22 <@preaction> which IE? 6 or 7?
01:22 < diakopter> 6
01:22 <@preaction> curses...
01:24 < diakopter> but the stupid thing is
01:24 < diakopter> the only feature it adds to the codearea is line numbers.
01:24 < diakopter> and in fact it *removes* the resizable aspect.
01:26 <@preaction> what about the highlighting?
01:26 <@preaction> or do you have to actually specify the highlighting to use? (wouldn't be hard to add that)
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01:40 <+perlDreamer> I'm questioning the statistics a little, but so far I've hacked out ~2 Mb of i18n and Help out of the core.
01:54 <+perlDreamer> And that's just with the docs for the Macros
02:05 <@preaction> nice
02:05 <@preaction> 7.4 will be leaner then? 7.3.x was creeping up towards 20meg
02:06 <+perlDreamer> have you ever run du -s on lib/WebGUI?
02:06 <+perlDreamer> There are several megs of help/i18n
02:06 <+perlDreamer> Althought the biggest area by far is the YUI/icon stuff
02:06 <+perlDreamer> This should trim several Mb off of the running size as well, since Help and i18n are implemented as code.
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02:59 < diakopter> preaction: no, it seems you have to specify the highlighting grammar.  But of course, that can be a runtime dropdown; surely it doesn't need to persist across saves.  On the other, hand, if HTML::Template templates could have their own highlighting grammar, that'd be pretty sweet.
03:08 <+crythias> highlighting grammar. Like... if I fed my mother's mother Uranium?
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04:19 < diakopter> LOL
04:22 <+Radix-wrk> Hmm.. coghead.com are doing some interesting stuff atm
04:37 <+Radix-wrk> ajax application/database design and they've just added coglets - customisable widgets you can put on your website to access the application/database you set up.
04:38 <+Radix-wrk> http://www.coghead.com/coglets
05:17 <+Radix-wrk> rizenisout: that webgui package you sent on May 4th just arrived :)  Surface mail sure takes a while! - 2 months, 14 days
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15:42 < SDuensin> Greetings
15:53 < AMH_bob> Welcome
15:54 < SDuensin> Hey AMH_bob 
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16:43 <@rizenisout> radix_: holy crap balls
16:43 <@rizenisout> that is a long time
16:43 -!- rizenisout is now known as rizen
16:43 <@rizen> diakopter: if it's fragile, do not introduce it into the core
16:43 <@rizen> the last thing i want is more bugs to fix
16:43 < diakopter> that's what I figured
16:43 < diakopter> it's a POS actually
16:43 <@rizen> crap
16:43 <@rizen> it looked cool
16:43 < diakopter> sure, the latest version
16:43 < diakopter> properly configured/integrated
16:44  * SDuensin missed something
16:44 < diakopter> but as the forum attests, the latest version has devastating bugs.
16:44 <@rizen> not worth it then...i guess we'll have to let it stabilize
16:44 < diakopter> yeah :(
16:44 < diakopter> sorry :(
16:45 < SDuensin> What are we talking about?
16:45 < diakopter> el CodeArea.pm
16:45 < diakopter> and some JS editor mod
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20:42 <@rizen> perlDreamer: you are checking your help changes into 7.4 and not 7.3 right?
20:42 <+perlDreamer> oh no!
20:43 <+perlDreamer> yes, I'm doing 7.4 ;)
20:43 <+perlDreamer> There are some help topics for screens that don't have hoverhelp, like user settings.
20:43 <+perlDreamer> Do you want to keep that help, purge it, or what?
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20:44 <@rizen> user settings?
20:44 <+perlDreamer> user profile settings
20:44 <@rizen> goes in the wiki
20:45 <@rizen> i want nothing remaining except regular i18n labels, hover help, and template variables
20:45 <+perlDreamer> got it
20:46 <+perlDreamer> later today, or perhaps tomorrow I'll need to ask you what to do with the Help icon and operations.
20:55 <@rizen> i'm happy to report that the test suite discovered 4 errors this morning before the release
20:55 <@rizen> which we're correcting
20:55 <@rizen> kudos test suite
20:55 <+perlDreamer> w00t!
20:55 <+perlDreamer> What did I break?
20:56 <@rizen> two problems were, i believe frank
20:56 <@rizen> patching a bug in 7.4 but not backporting the fix to 7.3
20:56 <@rizen> and the last two were...i don't know who
20:56 <@rizen> but both have to do with help
20:56 <@rizen> one i18n file had a syntax error
20:57 <@rizen> and now there's a related problem that we're trying to track down
20:57 <@rizen> but having trouble with
20:57 <+perlDreamer> Need help?
20:57 <@rizen> the output from the related test is not easy to follow
20:57 <+perlDreamer> If you paste it, I can tell you what it means
20:58 <+perlDreamer> ok 680 - Help entry: Asset -> asset template from Asset_Layout -> layout template
20:58 <+perlDreamer> for example
20:59 <@Haarg> not ok 164 - Help entry: Workflow_Activity_NotifyAdminsWithOpenVersionTags -> 'notify admins with open version tags' from Workflow_Activity -> list of installed activities
20:59 <+perlDreamer> Ah.
20:59 <+perlDreamer> That means that there is no help for NotifyAdminsWithOpenVersionTags
20:59 <+perlDreamer> Since it's going away for 7.4, might not be a big deal
21:00 <+perlDreamer> It was fixed in 7.4, before I chopped it out
21:01 <@rizen> actually that workflow activity is not supposed to even be there
21:02 <+perlDreamer> Even easier
21:25 <@rizen> colin
21:25 <@rizen> we have a big problem
21:25 <@rizen> with the related help test
21:25 <@rizen> it's somehow pulling stuff in from 7.4 even though those files aren't in our tree
21:25 <@rizen> on my machine it's complaining about Asset_Newsletter
21:25 <@rizen> but that doesn't exist until 7.4
21:26 <+perlDreamer> what's your WEBGUI_CONFIG env var set to?
21:27 <@rizen> does it cache anywhere?
21:27 <@rizen> related.t?
21:27 <+perlDreamer> no
21:27 <@rizen> the config var is set to the right place on both graham and my machines
21:27 <@rizen> we're both getting different sets of errors
21:27 <@rizen> even though at /data/WebGUI
21:27 <@rizen> is our 7.3 branch
21:27 <@rizen> on both machines
21:27 <@rizen> i get: Failed test 'Help entry: Asset_Newsletter -> 'newsletter add/edit' from Asset -> asset list'
21:28 <@rizen> and  Failed test 'Help entry: Macro_Basic -> 'basic' from Macros -> macros list'
21:28 <@rizen> he gets that other one he told you about
21:28 <+perlDreamer> I'll see if I can duplicate it.
21:29 <@rizen> i'm boggled
21:29 <+perlDreamer> I don't get any errors.  that's after updating
21:30 < diakopter> rizen: maybe a 7.4 checkout is in PERL5LIB :/  try starting another shell?
21:30 <@rizen> ok i'll try that
21:30 <+perlDreamer> gtg, be back after lunch
21:31 <@rizen> same errors in a new shell
21:31 <@rizen> oh well, i think we're going to just release with this
21:31 <@rizen> cuz it doesn't seem to be a real problem
21:31 <@rizen> only a problem in the test suite on our boxes
21:31 < diakopter> is svn status   empty?
21:31 <@rizen> yup
21:31 < diakopter> hum
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21:35 <@rizen> Khaytsus, how do you like PostNuke?
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22:08 < pjesi> can someone point me to the 7.4 feature list?
22:10 <@rizen> https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/view/WebGUI/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt
22:11 < pjesi> wow these nominees on SF, I have not heard about 90%
22:11 < pjesi> thanks
22:13 < pjesi> I only voted for Spring and WebGUI
22:13 < pjesi> the rest either used PHP or is for Windows
22:14 < Khaytsus> rizen: I don't.. heh..
22:14 < Khaytsus> rizen: It's a pain in the ass to keep up to date
22:15 <@rizen> as a user of PostNuke is there anything it has over WebGUI?
22:15 <@rizen> other than that it's easier to install
23:17 <+perlDreamer> rizen: You can use PostNuke on a shared hoster?
23:18 <@rizen> yup
23:18 <@rizen> that's what i'm talking about with install stuff though
23:18 <@rizen> php vs mod_perl
23:18 <@rizen> not something i can do anything about
23:30 < perlmonkey2> php performance vs mod_perl
23:30 <@rizen> pd you rule
23:30 <@rizen> webgui is going to scream without all that help in memory
23:33 <@rizen> now if we could just eliminate all labels from templates and use the i18n macro, we'd be sitting pretty
23:39 < Khaytsus> rizen: Not really, only thing I can think of PostNuke might have is more themes readily availably.
23:39 < Khaytsus> But that might be that I just haven't looked around as much ywet for WebGui themes.
23:39 < Khaytsus> Sorry, working here, peep in every so often :)
23:39  * Khaytsus runs home
23:41 <+perlDreamer> rizen, I'm guessing we can drop another 2-3 Mb with the Asset docs and other stuff, but it's getting real lean.
23:41 <@rizen> that's awesome
23:41 <@rizen> it will drop our per process size by around 5mb
23:41 <@rizen> that's a huge overall drop
23:43 <+perlDreamer> It will be easier to maintain, too.  Since it's smaller.
23:43  * SDuensin cheers for RAM savings!
23:44 < SDuensin> WebGUI's RAM use has been kicking my ass lately.  That's fantastic news.
23:46 <+perlDreamer> When I'm done with pruning, I'll run perltidy --WGBP on the Help and i18n files, too
23:48 < SDuensin> Well, time to go home and work on my new WebGUI server!   Later all!
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23:49 < pjesi> "I can see that it is a step up for people whi have used various java based frameworks til now. But when you already have CGI::Builder, Catalyst, Maypole, or even webgui if you want to get really filthy ... why change?"
23:49 < pjesi> from http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.309321.4
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00:52 <+perlDreamer> Haarg, preaction, rizen: would someone please give spectre a kick on pb.com.
00:52 <+perlDreamer> It's stuck again.
00:52 <@preaction> sure
00:52 <@preaction> wait, isn't that part of the fix in today's release?
00:52 <@preaction> are they still releasing?
00:52 <+perlDreamer> You'd sure think so :)
00:52 <+perlDreamer> I don't know
00:53 <@Haarg> the release is out
00:53 <+perlDreamer> A bug was just submitted about plainblack emails not going out.
00:54 <@preaction> Haarg, rizen, do you guys want to debug what's happening right now or can i just restart it?
00:54 <@Haarg> let me take a look quick
00:55 <@preaction> --status shows nothing, --test shows everything's fine
00:57 <@Haarg> yeah, i'm not seeing anything in particular
00:58 <+perlDreamer> for example, JT responded to Yung's post about file attachments
00:59 <+perlDreamer> I never got any emails.
00:59 <+perlDreamer> And that's from the dev list.
01:01 <@preaction> Haarg, the only thing i can think of is that the scheduled tasks stop getting run after X days (but only on pb.com? we haven't had anyone else see this error that I know of). perhaps the libs that Spectre::Cron rely on have been updated recently?
01:01 <@preaction> nevermind, looks like Spectre::Cron is its own scheduler system entirely
01:05 <@Haarg> it might be good to add something about cron jobs to --status
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01:10 <+perlDreamer> oh look, a raft of PB emails!
01:11 <+perlDreamer> thanks, guys
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02:00 <+perlDreamer> You know, as much as I tout the test suite, y'all need to remind me that it's nowhere near totally comprehensive.
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02:18 <+crythias> ... and then I said, "Compiler? But I hardly even know her!"
02:19 <@preaction> uwah ha ha ha ha!!11
02:20 <+crythias> "Clergyperson: Then by the power vested in me by insert local credentializing agency here, I now pronounce you wooter and WiFi. You may now surf the Internet, download MP3s, make Internet phone calls, share files, play network games, and stream high-definition videos simultaneously, and without wires, as long as you both shall function."
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16:25 <@rizen> crythias makes funny jokes
16:27 < SDuensin> Greetings.
16:32 < AMH_bob> Good morning!
16:33 <@rizen> AMH_bob is a liar. it's not morning where he is
16:34 < AMH_bob> Nope, but it's morning somewhere! (I love that country song: It's five O'Clock somewhere)
16:34 <@rizen> hehe
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18:11 < mindspin> hi, I got a weird problem with webgui 5.8.8, when i type the url of the website, some virtual hosts work properly, some others work only when I type url/index.pl and some otehrs refuse to work, firefox is only asking wether it should download index.pl 
18:27 < perlmonkey2> mindspin: Sounds like your webgui.conf for apache isn't set up right.  You need to tell apache how to handle scripts in your /data dir.
18:28 < mindspin> it came out of a sudden 
18:28 < mindspin> could it be that I editet with utf8, instead of iso blah charset?
18:29 < mindspin> because the error log shows cryptic signs
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18:29 < mindspin> like this: Undefined subroutine &Apache::Registry::handl
18:30 < mindspin> it worked properly for three years, real weird thing
18:31 < mindspin> perlmonkey2: I tried to add scriptURL=/ in webgui.conf but with no effect
18:31 < perlmonkey2> If it used to work and just now stopped, I'd roll back whatever changes you just made and also make sure there aren't encoding issues.
18:32 < mindspin> I'll bet its encoding issues
18:32 < mindspin> because only the suites where I uncommented Perl::Registry refuse to work
18:33 < mindspin> I hate it
18:43 < diakopter> mindspin: what editor were you using
18:43 < mindspin> midnight commander
18:45 < mindspin> actually I have a look at httpd.conf with vi
18:47 < diakopter> ahhh.... good old mc.  ick... I've had encoding problems with that built-in editor before.
18:48 < mindspin> but vi shows no crypting chars
18:48 < mindspin> now all pages work with URL/index.pl
18:48 < mindspin> but not with just the url
18:50 < mindspin> all sites i did not touch yesterday work fine...
18:50 < diakopter> mindspin: are you restarting apache/mod_perl after these changes?
18:50 < mindspin> yupp
18:51 < diakopter> why did you uncomment Perl::Registry in those sites?
18:51 < diakopter> (yesterday)
18:51 < mindspin> it gave me internal server errors which needed rfreshing of the site...
18:52 < mindspin> after uncommenting the errors did not appear anymore
18:55 < mindspin> but wether uncommented or not, it has no effects, the site shows up only when I add /index.pl
19:00 < mindspin> now I try some magic, I just change a working config of a garbage site and change the values to the paths of the site i need, I#ll bet its a coding issue
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19:08 < mindspin> nope, magic doesnt do the trick
19:25 < mindspin> hehe its not a webgui issue, its just firefox..... the sites work with konqueror, and IE, weird weird thing
19:33 < diakopter> rizen: just got this in a spam: http://www.scriptlogic.com/landing/server%2Drockstar/
19:35 <@rizen> there are no original ideas left in the world
19:36 < diakopter> nor memes! :)
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20:49 < Dc5e> Has anyone tested the List Pending Transactions since 7.3.21? Supposedly it was fixed but it still does not seem to be working.
20:50 <+perlDreamer> uh oh
20:50 <+perlDreamer> What shows up in your webgui.log file?
20:50 < Dc5e> uh hold on
20:52 < Dc5e> main::[[undef]] - Couldn't execute operation : WebGUI::Operation::Commerce::www_listPendingTransactions. Root cause: Can't locat
20:53 < Dc5e> er hold on
20:53 < Dc5e> main::[[undef]] - Couldn't execute operation : WebGUI::Operation::Commerce::www_listPendingTransactions. Root cause: Can't locate object method "db" via package "WebGUI::Commerce::Transaction" at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Commerce/Transaction.pm line 478.
20:53 < Dc5e> there we go
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20:55 <+perlDreamer> Dc5e, are you comfortable with a text editor?
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20:57 <+perlDreamer> rizen: how many more 7.3's are there going to be?
21:00 <@preaction> i would hope we keep releasing bugfixes to 7.3 until 7.4 goes stable
21:00  * perlDreamer imagines rizen talking on the phone, looking longingly at his IRC client
21:01 <@preaction> he's trying to hire me some durned help around here
21:01 <+perlDreamer> bah
21:03 <+perlDreamer> When the Commerce gets rewritten in 7.(>4), I'm going to have a royal tizzy fit if we don't build a basic test suite to go with it.
21:05 <+perlDreamer> Dc5e: Here's the scoop.  I don't have a way to sandbox the Commerce system during the day.  So when I fixed the operation, it just allowed the next bug to be uncovered.
21:05 <+perlDreamer> I've found this bug, and have a prototype fix for it, but we're again in jeopardy of not having the final solution.
21:05 <+perlDreamer> If you're willing, we can do this together.
21:05 < Dc5e> sorry, i was busy doing something, i'm back now.
21:06 <+perlDreamer> You willing to try a fix for me?
21:07 < Dc5e> well, I'm kind of busy right now...
21:08 <+perlDreamer> Would a time later today be better?
21:08 < Dc5e> possibly
21:09 <+perlDreamer> Alternately, I can give you the fix and let you try it (and downstream stuff) at your leisure
21:09 <+perlDreamer> How does that sound
21:09 < Dc5e> sure
21:10 <+perlDreamer> perlbot pastebin
21:10 < perlbot> (see paste)
21:10 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: paste
21:10 < perlbot> Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.
21:12 <+perlDreamer> Dc5e: here's your patch http://sial.org/pbot/26409
21:13 <+perlDreamer> I'll be afk for a while
21:13 < Dc5e> okay, thanks
21:13 <+perlDreamer> Please post back here if you have more problems, or better yet, file a bug
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21:44 < Dc5e> perlDreamer, the patch worked. Thanks alot.
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21:51 <@rizen> pd, there will be exactly 1 more 7.3 release
21:51 <@rizen> next wednesday
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23:05 < professorfrink_> i'm running 7.3.19 and i'm having trouble with subscriptions to collaboration system - 
23:05 < professorfrink_> in v6, when someone subscribed to a collab system, they got an email any time something was posted or changed
23:06 < professorfrink_> and this worked when we were running an earlier version of 7.3, but then it just stopped working
23:06 < professorfrink_> any thoughts?
23:06 <@preaction> is spectre running? are there queued messages in the "mailQueue" table?
23:08 < professorfrink_> spectre is running, and we're not having any trouble with any other workflows
23:08 < professorfrink_> i'll check the mailqueue
23:17 < professorfrink_> it looks like the notification message is in the mailqueue tab
23:19 <+perlDreamer> Dc5e: So is _everything_ working now, or do you just get the screen now?
23:19 <@preaction> professorfrink_, what version are you running? it might be a good idea to kick spectre (rc.webgui restartspectre)
23:19 < professorfrink_> we're running 7.3.19
23:21 < professorfrink_> i'll give it a shot
23:22 <@preaction> looks like the fix for that isn't until 7.4
23:31 < professorfrink_> hm
23:31 < professorfrink_> yea, restarting spectre didn't seem to help
23:32 < professorfrink_> so it seems like other people are having this problem, not just us?
23:39 <@rizen> curl http://www.yoursite.com:81/?op=spectreGetSiteData
23:39 <@rizen> run that from the command line
23:39 <@rizen> and make sure it returns good data and no errors
23:44 < professorfrink_> looks good to me - returned a bunch of processes and workflows, but no errors
23:45 <@rizen> excellent then that's not the problem
23:48 < professorfrink_> whoa - everything just came through
23:48 < professorfrink_> from the past 3 weeks when it wasn't working
23:50 < professorfrink_> looks like spectre just needed a kick in the pants
23:50 < professorfrink_> thanks for all the help!
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23:51 <+perlDreamer> just be sure to use that trick only on spectre
23:51 < professorfrink_> for sure
23:51 <+perlDreamer> using it on other things, (cars, dogs, etc.) is not guaranteed to work
23:51 < professorfrink_> haha
23:52 < professorfrink_> webgui IRC - not just webgui help, but life advice as well
23:52 <+perlDreamer> We try to be a full service community
23:52 <+perlDreamer> Why, just last week rizen told me why the meringue weeps in my Lemon Meringue pie.
23:52 < professorfrink_> and i appreciate that
23:52 < professorfrink_> oooo
23:52 < professorfrink_> delightful
23:54 < professorfrink_> that was so nice of him
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23:54 < professorfrink_> i need to hang out more often....
23:55 <+perlDreamer> Yeah, I never would have thought of Cream of Tartar as a binding agent.
--- Day changed Fri Jul 20 2007
00:04 <+perlDreamer> Go Haarg!
00:04 <+perlDreamer> Dude, you seem to be blessed.
00:04 <+perlDreamer> Whenever I fix bugs, people keep reporting more
00:04 <@Haarg> heh
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01:13 <+perlDreamer> ++bug
01:13 <+perlDreamer> karma bug
01:13 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: karma bug
01:13 < perlbot> Karma for bug: 1
01:13 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: karma bugs
01:13 < perlbot> Karma for bugs: -2
01:13 <+perlDreamer> --but
01:13 <+perlDreamer> --bug
01:13 <+perlDreamer> ++bugs
01:13 <@rizen> are you drunk?
01:13 <+perlDreamer> no, just misspelling
01:13  * diakopter is crunk
01:14 <+perlDreamer> I closed a WebGUI.org bug because it appeared to go away
01:14 <+perlDreamer> Well, now it's back.
01:17 <@Haarg> maybe i screwed it up when i fixed the other issue with those lists
01:20 <+perlDreamer> It isn't a recent reoccurance, it's been a while.
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15:37 < l-e-o-n> where can i find the virtual hosts for the awstats and how can i disable the demo in wre 0.7.2
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16:00 < SDuensin> Greetings.
16:02 < l-e-o-n> hey SDuensin
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16:28 <@rizen> l-e-o-n, both are in /data/wre/etc
16:35 < SDuensin> Hey rizen 
16:36 <@rizen> how goes it SD?
16:37 < SDuensin> Pretty well.  Got both my servers on the same release of WG last night and transferred all the web data over.  Took forever.  :-)
16:38 < SDuensin> But now I'm ready to install everything and then resync the databases.  Hopefully that'll fix my never ending RAM issues.
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17:33 < AMH_bob> Good afternoon (Better late than never!)
17:36 < SDuensin> Hey AMH_bob 
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17:44 <+crythias> ... and then the ghost said, "Give me a beer... and a mop!" 
17:44 < AMH_bob> Hi Scott, I'm on duty this weekend - I'm going to try keeping the serverparc up using a nokia 770 instead of my laptop
17:44 <+crythias> nokia 770 rocks
17:44 <+crythias> thanks woot!
17:44 < SDuensin> :-)
17:44 < AMH_bob> uh-uh
17:45 < AMH_bob> It's like... so cool dude
17:45 <+crythias> I can't believe what convenience it is.
17:45 <+crythias> except that rdesktop needs bt kbd
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17:46 < AMH_bob> yeah, a mini bluetooth keyboard would be welcome (if real server problems arise)
17:47 <+crythias> I wish I got this one http://www.proporta.com/F02/PPF02P05.php?t_id=1461&t_mode=des
17:52 <+crythias> This would be nice, too. http://freedominput.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=30
17:53 < diakopter> wooton
18:03 < AMH_bob> Yep, that freedom thing is going onto my wishlist. 
18:03 < AMH_bob> To everybody: have a nice weekend!
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19:19 <+perlDreamer> Is rizen going to be around today?
19:22 <@preaction> perlDreamer, no, he's out today
19:23 <+perlDreamer> I'm probably going to be able to finish up the Help hacking today
19:23 <+perlDreamer> Step 2 is what to do with all the Help icons.
19:23 <+perlDreamer> Where do they link to?
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22:34 <+perlDreamer> boy, we have a lot of Assets
22:35 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin: for 64-bit WRE, I think ckotil has done a lot of work on that.
22:36 < SDuensin> Be nice to have one.
22:37 < SDuensin> For now, I've made the 32 bit RHEL one run.
22:37 < SDuensin> In fact, I *just* moved all my sites.  :-)
22:37 <+perlDreamer> were you having problems with the ftp client?
22:37 <+perlDreamer> compiling it?
22:37 < SDuensin> I don't remember.  I had a ton of things that wouldn't build.
22:38 <+perlDreamer> I know you're already all set up, but if you get interested, I think the answers are in the IRC logs and the discussion boards.
22:39 < SDuensin> Logs maybe.  I didn't see anything in the forums.  Well, nothing newer than WRE 6.
22:39 <+perlDreamer> might have been on the paid support forums, but I don't remember.
22:40 <+perlDreamer> ckotil: ping.  Yo!  You around?
22:40 <+perlDreamer> nope, not today.
22:40 < SDuensin> hehe
22:40 < SDuensin> I had some kind of paid support.  No idea what it was - doesn't seem to be an option anymore.
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01:58 <+perlDreamer> preaction, got a sec?
01:58 <@preaction> pourquoi?
01:59 <+perlDreamer> Do mulitple versions of the same asset have different assetIds?
01:59 <@preaction> no
01:59 <+perlDreamer> I didn't think so.
02:00 <+perlDreamer> Same asset can have different URLs, though
02:01 <+perlDreamer> I'm trying to understand the logic behind Asset->urlExists
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21:42 <+crythias> so, I've been thinking about Schriedinger's cat
21:42 <+crythias> s/chri/chro
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--- Day changed Mon Jul 23 2007
00:01 < diakopter> crythias: is it for sale or something?
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09:59 < wgGuest51> Question : Is it possible to setup WebGUI on a shared hosting site?
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10:06 < wgGuest04> Does anyone know where a requirements list might be for installing WebGUI?
10:08 < wgGuest04> Nevermind, found it. There really should be a page instead of only in the wiki though. o.o
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10:31 -!- Radix-wrk changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.3.20 | WRE 0.7.2 ] .:. Come To The WUC http://www.plainblack.com/wuc .:. Feel free to ask questions on here - but make sure you stick around long enough for us to answer! :)
10:46 <@preaction> tomorrow starts the amateur air show in the country, 5 miles away from where i'm sitting, trying to sleep. the tourists have already arrived to wreak havoc on this small city of 60,000 people.
10:46 <@preaction> i feel sorry for our service industry...
11:43 <+Radix-wrk> good luck! :)
11:43 <+Radix-wrk> I
11:44 <+Radix-wrk> I'd be worrying about my house being crashed into by one of the amateur pilots myself! :)
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15:33 <+crythias> hrm
15:33 <+crythias> HI, et al.
15:35 <+crythias> I was thinking about the AssetProxy being added to the rich editor.
15:36 <+crythias> Radix__ you there?
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16:21 < Radix__> yeah
16:25 <+crythias> just was
16:25 <+crythias> sorry
16:26 <+crythias> was thinking about the process to put an asset in rich editor
16:27 < Radix__> Rizen doesn't seem to think it's possible, and closed my request
16:27 < Radix__> not without simply embedding assetproxy calls and then not displaying the image at all
16:27 <+crythias> It seems to me that if the edit screen is more like a ... what is that thing...
16:28 <+crythias> I want to say "desktop" but I mean something else.
16:28 < Radix__> viewer?
16:28 <+crythias> but what if the edit screen was more like a page layout admin mode rather than the way it is, now.
16:29 <+crythias> there's this asset that allows you to move chunks of content around.
16:29 <+crythias> kinda like a mini portal
16:29 < Radix__> I think it's more the way the rich text editor interacts with webgui
16:29 < Radix__> and how the data is passed around that is the problem
16:30 < Radix__> webgui kinda dumps the html out and sends it to the rich text editor, then gets it back at the end
16:31 < Radix__> with images there is some kind of interaction with webgui going on, but the rte still needs valid html to work with
16:32 < Radix__> what you want is some kind of special object reference that gets interpreted the right way to the rte and to webgui when it gets the data back at the end
16:32 <+crythias> dashboard
16:32 < SDuensin> Morning!
16:32 <+crythias> morning
16:32 < Radix__> evenin ;)
16:32 < AMH_bob> Afternoon!
16:32 < SDuensin> Hehehe
16:33 <+crythias> we need a java WYSIWYG that handles the requests better. or perhaps a AJAX-like request/retrieval
16:33 < Radix__> Hey bob - how's the weather in nl atm? :)
16:35 < AMH_bob> it has rained and its a 17C/63F out there...
16:35  * Radix__ will make sure he brings his raincoat when he goes there next weekend.
16:36 < AMH_bob> but I only get to go outside 40 feet to the car and 20 feet from the car to the house..... so it's not that big a deal to me :P
16:36 < Radix__> heh
16:36 < Radix__> it's flooding down here at the moment
16:37 < AMH_bob> Radix, are you comming over? Gonna be in the neighbourhood of Eindhoven?
16:37 < Radix__> but then it's winter for us, so we expect it :)
16:38 < Radix__> AMH_bob: Yup, as of Sunday I leave wet and rainy australia and head north to europe for a couple of months.  Spending two weeks with Oqapi in Delft, then head off on holidays to see the rest of europe :)
16:42 < AMH_bob> Cool, I'll send you my home and office details, jist in case you have time to kill or if you need help with anything.
16:44 < Radix__> cool
16:44 < SDuensin> Anyone ever have the WRE go nuts and eat all the CPU time?
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16:59 < pjesi> SDuensin: yes please
17:01 < SDuensin> Please?  You want it to go nuts?
17:17 < pjesi> hehe no, but I have to restart WRE frequently because of this
17:18 < SDuensin> That's not good.  I need to fix it.
17:19 < pjesi> I know
17:20 < pjesi> actually it is the admins job
17:20 < pjesi> and he insisted on this
17:20 < SDuensin> Well, for me, the sad thing is - *I'M* the admin!
17:21 < pjesi> :)
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17:21 < SDuensin> Trouble has arrived!
17:21 < pjesi> make sure to highlight me if you find something interesting
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18:18 < diakopter> welcome, perlDreamer.  WebGUI is web done right.
18:18 <+perlDreamer> Good morning, all.
18:18 <+perlDreamer> We're reporting live from OSCON.
18:18 < diakopter> OSCON 2007, that is.
18:18 <+perlDreamer> Please forward all questions to the moderator, and we'll answer them on a one by one basis.
18:18 < diakopter> not any past or future ones.
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18:31 <@rizen> what sessions are you guys in right now?
18:31 <+perlDreamer> Advanced VIM Scripting
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18:31 <@rizen> ask if there is a way to start vim in edit mode
18:32 <@rizen> for example, when vim is set as your subversion editor
18:32 <+perlDreamer> There's gotta be a way to do that, because that's how diakopter's vim starts
18:33 <+perlDreamer> he asked me if there was a way to turn it off :)
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19:05 <+Radix_> rizen: vim -y
19:09 <+Radix_> it puts vi in a wierd mode tho.. you need to use ctrl-l to get it into command mode
19:09 <+Radix_> also called evim
19:09 <+Radix_> http://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/htmldoc/starting.html#evim-keys
19:18 <@rizen> what i'm looking for is just to execute i as soon as vim opens
19:18 <@rizen> i don't want to be in a special mode
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19:21 < diakopter> rizen: http://www.vim.org/tips/tip.php?tip_id=297
19:23 < diakopter> or, alias vim=vim -c 'startinsert'
19:24 < diakopter> I mean,   alias vim="vim -c 'startinsert'"
19:28 <+perlDreamer> rizen: just committed a fix to the bug we discussed earlier.
19:28 <+perlDreamer> I'll work on the backport next
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19:35 <+perlDreamer> backport done
19:49 <+perlDreamer> in vim, you can use :match to debug regular expressions
19:49 <+perlDreamer> It will show you what part of the text matches your regex
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21:08 < wgGuest24> nick todor_k
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23:33 <+perlDreamer> full house today
23:33 <+perlDreamer> So now I'm in Advanced Techniques for Parsing
23:33 < diakopter> full here as well.  "A Taste of Haskell"
23:34 <+perlDreamer> I saw your room. There are more people in the channel ;)
23:34 < diakopter> barely any seats open here now
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23:54 <+crythias> Error Message: Your Password Must Be at Least 18770 Characters and Cannot Repeat Any of Your Previous 30689 Passwords
23:55 <+crythias> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q276304/
23:55 <+crythias> and because of this, we learn of the msgina .dll
23:55 <+crythias> gtg
--- Day changed Tue Jul 24 2007
00:03 < diakopter> ohhhh; pronounced Ms. Jyna.  I get it now.
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00:26 < danny_mk> Interesting behavior!  
00:26 < danny_mk> try this:  http://www.yournewwebguiinstallation.com/faq
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01:16 <+perlDreamer> I was going to ask last week, is anyone else going to OSCON?
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01:53 <@preaction> when i'm managing revisions in a tag that has a workflow instance, will i be allowed to approve/deny tags that have already been approved/denied by some other user?
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12:27 < AMH_bob> Goodmorning, your ealy!
12:41 < xootom> morning amh_bob! which country are you in?
12:49 < AMH_bob> The Netherlands
12:49 < AMH_bob> Nice and rainy over here...
12:59 < xootom> ahh over in the uk here, yes it's been very wet
13:03 < pjesi> it is sunny here in the uk
13:10 < xootom> yeah it's nice today, where abouts are you pjesi
13:13 < pjesi> oxford
13:13 < pjesi> I walked down to Thames last night, man it was a lot of water!
13:13 < xootom> i was going to say, wasn't that one of the flooded areas?
13:14 < pjesi> Some of the roads near Thames were closed yesterday, I don't know how bad it was
13:57 <+Radix_> it's been raining cats and dogs here too!
13:57 <+Radix_> We had a section of our office flooded overnight
13:58 <+Radix_> No serious damage tho.. just wet carpets - had huge industrial dryers drying out the carpet all day
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15:36 < SDuensin> Greetings.
16:24 <@rizen> salutations
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16:26 < SDuensin> Hey rizen 
16:27 <@rizen> straw SD
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16:58 < AMH_bob> Hi Guys
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17:02 < chatito28> Good morning .. i have a question. I setup up webgui 7.3.21 from scratch and i am able to get my page through port 81 but not port 80
17:02 < chatito28> what do i need to do
17:02 < chatito28> i get a mssg configure awstats.newweb.conf
17:08 < chatito28> anybody can help me
17:09 <@rizen> mv awstats.newweb.conf awstats.newweb.conf.off
17:09 <@rizen> restart web
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17:21 < chatito28> sorry but now i get the stats when i type http://newweb
17:22 <@rizen> oops, told you to rename the wrong file
17:22 <@rizen> meant stats.modproxy
17:23 < chatito28> so it should be stats.modproxy.off
17:24 <@rizen> y
17:25 <@rizen> anybody know if there are stylesheet properties i could use to lock a div to the lower right corner of a window regardless of whether the window scrolls or not?
17:26 < chatito28> now i get a bad gateway error
17:26 < SDuensin> I think there are.  Don't ask me what they might be though.
17:26 < chatito28> 502 Bad Gateway
17:26 <@rizen> chatito28, that's all i can tell you. for more contact plainblack support
17:35 < chatito28> thanks for the help
17:35 < chatito28> i have karmas .. how do i contact support
17:39 <@rizen> do you have a support contract? 
17:39 <@rizen> if not, go to plainblack.com > store > support
17:42 < chatito28> thanks
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18:00 <@preaction> anyone in here ever notice a problem with empty version tags from users (who should have their stuff auto-committed)?
18:01 <@rizen> i have seen that on occasion, but have not been able to determine what causes it
18:02 <@rizen> i've only ever seen it on one site though, so i thought it might be site related
18:02 <@preaction> which site? the alumni site? they seem to have it happen rather often
18:02 <@rizen> cmsmatrix.org
18:02 <@preaction> interesting
18:03 <@rizen> it never seems to happen on plainblack.com even though we have a lot of people posting there all the time
18:07 <@preaction> perhaps all the people posting there are speaking UTF-8?
18:07 <@preaction> or, the postings aren't subject to approval
18:07 <@preaction> whereas the ones on the alumni site and the cmsmatrix are
18:11 <@rizen> on plainblack.com only the news page is subject to approval
18:11 <@rizen> on cmsmatrix.org only the news page is subject to approval
18:13 <@preaction> doesn't cmsmatrix.org allow anyone to post news though? whereas plainblack only allows us?
18:14 <@rizen> nope, anyone can post news on plainblack.com
18:15 <@rizen> just mostly people don't
18:15 <@preaction> side-note: is anyone allowed to post news to webgui.org?
18:16 <@rizen> it's the same site
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19:48 <@rizen> nuba, how's the google maps thing?
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20:33 < cryolai> anybody have any idea when the commerce module will be updated with a new version?
20:34 <@rizen> 7.5 or beyond
20:34 <@rizen> meaning, not in the next few months
20:40 <@rizen> bug--
20:40 <@preaction> woot
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20:47 < SDuensin> When do we get to start seeing the slimmer, nicer to my RAM, WebGUI?  :-)
20:47 <@rizen> 7.4
20:47 <@rizen> when it is released
20:47 <@rizen> and i've already stated the release date on the dev mailing list
20:47 < SDuensin> Well, get typin'!  I need it!  :-)
20:48 <@preaction> hold yer horses
20:49 < SDuensin> My horses are swappin' like mad!  :-P
20:49 <@preaction> there are so many new features in 7.4, we have to ensure they all get in
20:53 < cryolai> are there any order details that can be seen other than the item bought in the commerce section?
20:53 < cryolai> such as CC #'s, buyers, etc
20:54 <@preaction> cryolai, which version? i believe there was a bug fixed in commerce for this wednesday's release that fixed the View Pending transactions
20:54 < cryolai> the latest version...
20:55 <@rizen> cryolai: you can never view cc numbers, that would be a big security problem
20:55 < cryolai> the view pending doesn't really show any pertinent details
20:55 <@rizen> but you can see what items were purchased, and the total purchase amount, and what user made the purchase
20:56 <@rizen> and when you log in to the itransact account you can see other things like whether it was purchased with a visa/mastercard, etc
20:56 <@rizen> but in general, the commerce system is bare bones right now. it's fine for small stores, but it needs a major upgrade to do fancy stuff
20:56 <@rizen> and that's all coming in later 7.x releases
21:01 < cryolai> where does it show which user made the purchase?
21:02 < cryolai> pending transactions shows transactionID, date, gatewayID...
21:03 <@rizen> my mistake, it is supposed to show that in the list transactions screen
21:03 <@rizen> that's a bug
21:04 < cryolai> oh alright
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21:16 < cryolai> so, does that mean that iTransact will have all the CC information?
21:16 < cryolai> or no
21:16 <@rizen> it has their credit card info, but you are not allowed to see it
21:16 <@rizen> again, that would be a security flaw
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21:39 < cryolai> so..how do you access the contact information that they provided in the form (such as an address for shipping)
21:39 < cryolai> or that is a security issue as well
21:39 <@rizen> i just told you, that's a bug
21:40 <@rizen> it's being worked on as we speak
21:40 < cryolai> oh, okay, sorry
21:40 <@rizen> you should see the user that made the purchase in the transaction list
21:40 <@rizen> and then you can view their address info
21:40 <@rizen> although, you can probably also see that in your iTransact account if you want
22:19 <@Haarg> i have that fixed now.  it will show the user in the transaction lists.
22:20 <@rizen> note, that fix will be in 7.3.22
22:32 < cryolai> when is that coming out?
22:33 < cryolai> tmorrow? :)
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22:40 <@rizen> sometime on wednesday
22:40 <@rizen> it may be wednesday night, so its probably safer to tell you thursday
22:47 < cryolai> awesome
23:38 < cryolai> Thanks for your help
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--- Day changed Wed Jul 25 2007
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00:12 <+perlDreamer> Haarg: no need to forward port the Asset Template help to 7.4.  It was deleted.
00:12 <@Haarg> hmm
00:12 <@Haarg> i did that by accident
00:12 <+perlDreamer> Deleted as part of the Great Help purge of 2007
00:12 <@Haarg> didn't think i committed it
00:12 <+perlDreamer> You didn't, I was just being proactive.
00:13 <@Haarg> ok :)
00:13 <@preaction> Help purge? this is a witch hunt! cossacks!
00:13 <@preaction> help help its being repressed!
00:13 <+perlDreamer> svn del Help/Asset_preaction.pm
00:14 <+perlDreamer> svn commit -m 'For the greater good'
00:14 <@preaction> is there any way to prevent some text from being wiki-linked?
00:14 <@preaction> i think not yet, right?
00:14 <+perlDreamer> Not unless you misspell it.
00:14 <@Haarg> put it in an anchor would work
00:15 <+perlDreamer> In Kwiki-ese, you mean something like !ThisIsNotAWikiLink
00:15 <@preaction> a named anchor? that's evil
00:15 <@preaction> basically, yeah
00:15 <@Haarg> yeah, that's only appropriate in certain places
00:15 <@preaction> i'm almost thinking we'll need to move towards adding wiki-markup for the linking feature :(
00:16 <@preaction> [[wikilink]] [[!don't wiki link this you git]]
00:18  * rizen mumbles something about how he hates wiki markup
00:18 <+perlDreamer> Maybe a noLInker plugin to the RTE?
00:19 <+perlDreamer> &nbsp; inbetween the words may do it, since its regexp based.
00:19 <@rizen> why would you not want to link it if the title exists?
00:19 <@rizen> give me a reason
00:20 <@preaction> it's linking the France part of Francesca because there's a "France" article
00:20 <@rizen> bs...then create a Francesca article
00:21 <@preaction> but they don't want Francesca to be an article
00:21 <@rizen> or link to an external page that is related to francesca
00:21 <@preaction> it's just the name of a person, can't link to her profile because (probably) it's private
00:21 <@preaction> (if she even has a profile)
00:22 <@rizen> sorry, i just don't see it as being a problem
00:36 <@rizen> why don't you submit and RFE and see if people agree with you
00:36 <@rizen> if it gets moved up toward the top of the list i'll be forced to change my mind
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00:38 <@preaction> just the problem or my proposed solution? i could try to take some time to understand the TinyMCE enough to integrate some sort of WYSIWYG way to manipulate wiki linking (as well as handy show-auto-linking-as-you-type)
00:39 <@preaction> probably a better solution, if possible, but far more difficult
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01:15 <+perlDreamer> preaction: how about anchoring the regexp's with \b to enforce whole word matching?
01:16 <@preaction> change all the spaces in the title we're trying to match against to \b\s+\b ?
01:17 <+perlDreamer> no, see line 100 in Asset/Wobject/WikiMaster.pm
01:17 <+perlDreamer> it builds that gnarly regexp then joins them with |'s
01:18 <@Haarg> the problem with that is linking plurals and such
01:18 <+perlDreamer> you'd lose linking to plurals
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01:42 <+perlDreamer> There's a wiki whose markup is POD...
01:44 <@preaction> yeah, not so much
01:45 <@preaction> we don't need to replace anything that HTML can already do
01:50 < SDuensin> ReHi
01:51 <+perlDreamer> howdy
02:02 < SDuensin> Poo.  I was hoping someone was industrious and added a memory reduction page to the wiki.  :-)
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10:34 <@preaction> what's the Graphics admin panel used for?
10:34 <@preaction> there's an entire admin panel that i've never used and is completely undocumented
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10:49 <+Radix-wrk> preaction: it's used for graphs in polls
10:49 <@preaction> that would explain it
11:07 <@preaction> okay, ethical question: should I confront a committer about their blatant disregard for the WebGUI Best Practices?
11:13 <+Radix-wrk> lol
11:13 <+Radix-wrk> Sure, but be nice and helpful too, whoever it is is still contributing!
11:14 <@preaction> second question: what if it's JT?
11:15 <+Radix-wrk> haha... then drop the nice and helpful bit - just tell him ;)
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17:02 < SDuensin> Kinda good morning.
17:05 <@rizen> would be better if preaction wasn't always dissing me
17:06 < SDuensin> You probably deserve it for something.  :-)
17:06 < SDuensin> We still love ya though.
17:07 < SDuensin> I'd love you a lot more if my server quit running it's load up to 35+ when WebGUI is running.  :-(
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17:12 <@rizen> is it my fault that you've set up webgui on a woefully underpowered box?
17:23 < SDuensin> Thing is, it's not.  I have a dual core AMD 64 bit thing with a gig of RAM.
17:24 < SDuensin> I have a sinking feeling it's the "64 bit" part.  Since it's hosted, I don't have a choice of OSs.
17:24 <@rizen> holy balls man. then ram is not your problem, unless the site is just being flooded with thousands and thousands of requests
17:24 < xootom> i was really worried about running webgui on my server, but it performs really well, only 1gb and that's shared with 3 other apaches running metadot, php4 and php5
17:24 < SDuensin> Nope.  It's sitting bored.  Maybe four people on it.
17:24 <@rizen> it's either the 64-bit part, or it's not configured very well
17:25 <@rizen> what does your /data/wre/prereqs/apache/conf/startup.pl look like?
17:25 < SDuensin> What's to configure?  It's the WRE.  I even went in and trimmed down the RAM settings like I did on my old server.
17:25 < xootom> mine was originally 64 bit but i abandoned and reimaged with 32 bit, 64 bit had far too many issues with things not compiling or not available
17:25 <@rizen> even with the WRE there is some tuning that can be done to suit the given environment
17:26 <@rizen> the WRE is configured as well as it can be without knowing the environment
17:26 < SDuensin> I changed startup.pl to this:
17:26 < SDuensin> $Apache2::SizeLimit::MAX_PROCESS_SIZE =  50000;
17:26 < SDuensin> $Apache2::SizeLimit::MAX_UNSHARED_SIZE = 25000;
17:26 < SDuensin> $Apache2::SizeLimit::CHECK_EVERY_N_REQUESTS = 5;
17:26 <@rizen> those are way too low
17:26 <@rizen> i bet if you look at your modperl error log
17:27 <@rizen> you'll see that the processes are being killed after serving just one or two requests
17:27 < SDuensin> I can put them back where they were.  Doesn't seem to matter.
17:27 <@rizen> look at your modperl error log
17:29 < SDuensin> Yea.  It's mad.  Oddly, it also has errors that fork() doesn't have enough memory.
17:29 < SDuensin> I'll put 'em back to 100000 and 75000.
17:30 <@rizen> yeah, and then see what the log says
17:30 < SDuensin> So when does the "Moron's Guide to WebGUI Administration" get released?  :-)
17:30 <@rizen> when i'm done writing it
17:33 < SDuensin> OK, now to sit and watch "top" for awhile.  :-D
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18:16 < SDuensin> What should the perms under /data/domains look like?
18:17 <@rizen> the uploads folder for each site should be owned recursively by nobody 
18:17 <@rizen> other than that it doesn't matter much as long as the web server can get to the uploads folder
18:18 <@rizen> and write logs in the logs folder
18:19 < SDuensin> Thanks
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19:04 <@rizen> nuba, how is the google maps thing coming?
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23:01 < SDuensin> IT'S DOING IT!  httpd is freaking out again.  Load is 17.  WTF?!
23:02 <@rizen> look in modperl error log?
23:02 < SDuensin> I have one httpd process from the WRE that has 87.5% of my RAM.
23:02 <@rizen> do you have wre monitor configured?
23:03 < SDuensin> Pretty sure I do.
23:03 < SDuensin> Wide character in print at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Session/Output.pm line 96.
23:03 < SDuensin> Out of memory!
23:03 < SDuensin> [Mon Jul 23 20:41:11 2007] [notice] child pid 10138 exit signal Segmentation fault (11)
23:03 < SDuensin> Out of memory!
23:04 < SDuensin> I also get these in the modproxy log:
23:04 < SDuensin> [Mon Jul 23 21:00:51 2007] [error] [client 66.249.65.11] proxy: error reading status line from remote server www.kevinmhuntfoundation.org
23:04 < SDuensin> [Mon Jul 23 21:00:52 2007] [error] [client 66.249.65.11] proxy: Error reading from remote server returned by /guestbook/memoriallog
23:05 <@rizen> that's definitely not good, but i don't know what could be causing it
23:05 <@rizen> could be the 64-bit stuff like you said
23:05 <@rizen> we don't have any 64bit boxes to play with it on
23:05 < SDuensin> Apparently someone tried to upload using the filepile.  But just a single image.
23:06 <@rizen> you could use a script like this set up to run once a minute in your crontab to kill the runaways
23:06 <@rizen> http://pastebin.com/m69085e6a
23:06 <@rizen> that's really only a short term bandaid
23:06 < SDuensin> mem > 5 is 5% ?
23:07 <@rizen> but it's something
23:07 <@rizen> yeah
23:07 < SDuensin> I know.  Something is much appreciated.
23:07 <@rizen> we use a script like that on servers with custom code in case the custom code causes any memory problems
23:07 < SDuensin> SONOFA(%#*#(!@
23:08 < SDuensin> So what if wremonitor *isn't* running?  Grrr.
23:08 <@rizen> wremonitor just checks stuff to make sure it's alive once in a while, and restarts it if it isn't
23:08 <@rizen> it's a good thing to run, but you don't have to
23:08 < SDuensin> k
23:08 < SDuensin> Well, *all* my crontab stuff for WebGUI was commented out.  :-(
23:09 <@rizen> likewise, even if it is running, but wremonitor can't connect it will restart the service
23:09 < SDuensin> Still gonna toss in the script you gave me.
23:10 <@rizen> yeah...we run them both on the servers where we're worried about runaways
23:10 <@rizen> you might need to tweak that script i gave you though
23:10 <@rizen> cuz it uses top
23:10 <@rizen> and top's output is a little different on different platforms
23:10 < SDuensin> k
23:14 < SDuensin> Wow.  Nice regex.
23:14 <@rizen> sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do
23:16 < SDuensin> We need to get you a 64 bit box for the next WRE.
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23:29 <+perlDreamer> hey, all!
23:31 < SDuensin> Hey
23:32 <+perlDreamer> What's happening in the WebGUI world?
23:34 < SDuensin> It's running wild!  It's consuming everything in sight!  Save the children!
23:38 <+perlDreamer> heh
23:39 < SDuensin> Something in the WRE is mad about running on x64.  Dunno WTF is going on.
23:41 <+perlDreamer> we need someone to volunteer an x64 box for WRE testing.
23:41 <+perlDreamer> build/compile/etc.
23:43 < SDuensin> If I can find one, it's all yours.  I'm just a bit low on extra hardware at the moment.
23:43 <+perlDreamer> They're not cheap, that's for sure.
23:44 < SDuensin> They're not exactly expensive either.
23:45 <+perlDreamer> Do you mean a dedicated box, or shared, or VPS'ed?
23:46 < SDuensin> I mean just to buy one and set it up under a desk somewhere.
23:52 < SDuensin> About $300 on NewEgg to build a cheap one.
23:52 < SDuensin> I'll poke around.  Maybe I can dig one up.
23:52 < SDuensin> However, for now, I'm going home.  Later all!
23:52 < SDuensin> Thanks again, rizen - you rock!
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--- Day changed Thu Jul 26 2007
00:12 <+perlDreamer> preaction, Haarg: I'm building a new form for additional databaseLink parameters.  I was planning on using a 1 per line syntax.  Do you know if I have to handle Windows newlines as well as Unix newlines, or am I safe using Unix newlines?
00:13 <@preaction> i'd probably go so far as to use JSON inside, or Storable qw(nfreeze), or something less plain-text
00:13 <@preaction> but why aren't we normalizing it?
00:13 <+perlDreamer> Normalizing it?
00:14 <+perlDreamer> Teach me, Obi-wan
00:15 <@preaction> one column for each value
00:15 <@preaction> instead of storing data structures in the database that need to be translated somehow
00:16 <@preaction> i mean, sure, we can perform regex matches to attempt to parse the datastructures using SQL queries, but that's just crazy
00:16 <+perlDreamer> Then you'd have to add them dynamically as the user adds more parameters.
00:17 <@preaction> what are these parameters being used for?
00:17 <@preaction> and the new userProfileData table does exactly that
00:17 <+perlDreamer> DatabaseLink, additional db parameters
00:17 <+perlDreamer> If it was generalized, I'd be happy to plug it into a new table
00:18 <@preaction> parameters like what? more options to DBI->connect perhaps?
00:18 <+perlDreamer> LongReadLen, LongTruncOK
00:18 <+perlDreamer> See SQL.pm, sub connect for examples.
00:20 <@preaction> somethink like that might be best served using JSON (then you can just jsonToObj, add the other params, and send it right to SQL->connect
00:21 <+perlDreamer> So the user will enter JSON into a text box for additional parameters?
00:23 <@preaction> no, how the user does it is up to you
00:23 <+perlDreamer> Well, that's what I started out asking.  About line endings.
00:24 <@preaction> i'd imagine that a little javascript app would be best, with a list of param names and have them enter the value
00:24 <@preaction> but i think apache translates line endings for you
00:24  * preaction gotta go look at house
00:25 <+perlDreamer> Good luck. and thanks for your help
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01:30 <@rizen> wahooo!!! wikis have attachmetns
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03:33 <@preaction> rizen, is it alright to re-write your code for workflow/form helpers that requires turning off strictures with code that uses UNIVERSAL->can to get a reference to the subroutine? (we'll be able to detect if the sub exists before we try to call it)
03:34 <@preaction> also, is the www_spectreStatus in WebGUI::Operation::Spectre supposed to only allow people in the spectre subnets to see spectre's status via the admin console?
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03:54 < wgGuest07> hello?
03:54 <@preaction> hello
03:54 <@Haarg> hello
03:55 < wgGuest07> oh hi. I think I've talked with preaction before...
03:55 < wgGuest07> I'm really stuck on something. I thought it was the lack of sleep, but I've duplicated it several times and I think Ifoudn a bug with 7.2.1
03:55 < wgGuest07> Oh and Hi Haarg!
03:56 <@preaction> that's to be expected, there's been at least a hundred bugs fixed since 7.2.1 was released
03:56 < wgGuest07> So.  I've created a folder and then file piled images up.  Like 50-80 of them
03:56 < wgGuest07> I then reference their url in an http proxied page
03:56 < wgGuest07> I think I have 7.2.1, but I'd have to vpn to find out...
03:57 < wgGuest07> and the image won't show up in the http proxy page. UNLESS I go to the image, edit it and save it without making changes
03:57 <@preaction> 7.3.22 was released today, so you'd have to reproduce there before we could do anything. http://demo.webgui.org <- if you can reproduce on a demo site, we can help you more
03:57 < wgGuest07> it's weird. but I've done it several times.
03:57 < wgGuest07> so my question is. I can deal with the bug fine, but I really don't want to modify all these images
03:58 < wgGuest07> is there an fla being set when I "save" the image that I can set via SQL?
03:59 <@Haarg> is this a problem with thumbnails?
03:59 < wgGuest07> nope. I'm referencing the imges them selves.
03:59 < wgGuest07> I've even looked to see if they were in the uplaod directory and they are.
03:59 <@preaction> their webgui URL or their url in the /uploads/XX/XX/XXXXXXXXX...
03:59 < wgGuest07> I reference the webgui URL in the http proxied page.
04:00 < wgGuest07> but eiher url (webgui or the uploads) will produce a 404 error unless I resave the image (without changing anything)
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04:02 < wgGuest07> I should be a little more specific. I've I put the webgui or upload url in the address box in my broswer (forget the proxy page) I get a 404.
04:03 < wgGuest07> geez I type to fast. hopefully people understood me.
04:03 <@preaction> is that after you commit the changes? there seems to be an unspecific "Storage bug" fixed in 7.3.11
04:04 <@preaction> if you can reproduce this behavior on a demo site, then i'd suggest posting a bug report on the bug list
04:04 < wgGuest07> yep. the first time this happened was last night. I committed my changes. I've cleared my cached (rm -f method) and waited a day. Then I reproduced it several times today.
04:05 <@preaction> but can you reproduce on the latest webgui? http://demo.webgui.org <- make a demo, set up the situation, and see if it happens. is there someplace i can see this happening?
04:06 <@rizen> preaction: yes you can rewrite stuff to use UNIVERSAL->can
04:06 <@preaction> i mean, we're talking 7.2.1 here, and admittedly though it's a roundabout bug, there've been at least a hundred bugs fixed since then, one of them might've been this one
04:06 < wgGuest07> unfortunately it's behind our firewall right now. I'm doing the demo now. I hope I don't have to upload 80 photos to repro this.
04:06 <@rizen> preaction: no spectre status is supposed to work for admins
04:07 <@preaction> rizen, okay, will fix
04:07 < wgGuest07> I guess I was just hoping to have a sql update statement I can use or select query to see what maybe changing when I "save" an image. 
04:08 <@preaction> wgGuest07, since i'm not sure what's causing it, i don't know what you or i could do to fix it
04:09 < wgGuest07> what table is the data stored in for images?
04:09 < wgGuest07> I uploaded one photo on webgui demo and it seemed to work I haven't tried 80 photos yet.
04:09 <@preaction> wgGuest07, asset, assetData, File, and Image
04:09 <@rizen> FileAsset and ImageAsset actually
04:10 <@rizen> crap fuck crap fuck
04:10 <@preaction> that... doesnt'... sound... good...
04:10 <@rizen> all the changes i made to the upgrade script were lost when Haarg renamed it
04:10 <@rizen> which he was suppsoed to do
04:10 <@rizen> not his fault
04:10 <@rizen> svn's fault
04:11 < wgGuest07> 80 photos is a pain. I'll look at those tables to see if anything changes when I "resave" an image. Thanks!
04:11 <@rizen> i'm 99.99999% sure that bug is fixed in a later version wgGuest07
04:11 <@preaction> wgGuest07, i believe away back when there was a bug that caused a new storage location to be created every time you saved a file/image asset
04:11 <@rizen> check the change log if you like, but i'm sure i remember someone fixed that
04:12 < wgGuest07> what table is the storage location kept? because if I go directly to the directory it says the image is in, its there. even though I get a 404. I copied pasted so I shouldn't have had typo errors going on.
04:13 < wgGuest07> so maybe the storage location wasn't "saved" when I filepiled.
04:13 <@preaction> wgGuest07, it's in the FileAsset table
04:14 < wgGuest07> ok. I'll watch that specific field. I can't do anythign now, because I'm not vpned in.  Thanks! I might be back later. 
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04:16 < wgGuest07> how do you log out of this? I'm using plainblacks provided software...
04:16 <@preaction> just close it
04:16 < wgGuest07> k bye
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04:16 <@rizen> it's amazing how many people use that web thing
04:16 <@rizen> it's a pile compared to a real irc client
04:16 <@preaction> it is
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04:43 < nuba> rizen: im working on the asset now, and keeping the deadline in mind
04:43 < nuba> rizen: just replied to your email
04:44 <@rizen> shall i assume that you just started on the asset today?
04:44 <@rizen> based upon what you've said, that's what it sounds like
04:46 < nuba> yes, i was working with googlemaps but outside webgui until today
04:47 < nuba> i was planning to do that sooner but some local issues kept me busy these last days
04:48 < nuba> but I usually perform better under tight deadlines and high pressure, so I hope it will turn out a good asset :)
04:48 < nuba> thats seriously
04:49 <@rizen> i'm concerned that we're only 2 days away and you're just starting. my concern is for the stability of the code
04:50 < nuba> i see. well I hope the code will pass your scrutinity
04:51 < nuba> i can say i follow some best practices while designing or coding something
04:51 < nuba> s/scrutinity/scrutiny/ 
05:22 <+Radix-wrk> heh.. you got WebGUI running on your iphone yet rizen?  I hear someone has apache, python and various other apps running on it now :)
05:22 <@rizen> of course i do
05:22 <@rizen> actually runs pretty well
05:22 <+Radix-wrk> no, I mean compiled and running as a webserver ;)
05:22 <@rizen> can't get image magick to work
05:22 <@rizen> thats what i'm saying
05:22 <+Radix-wrk> Oh.. cool!
05:22 <@rizen> i have the WRE mostly working on it
05:23 <+Radix-wrk> awesome
05:23 <@rizen> i'm actually just screwing with you. i've been so busy with 7.4 stuff that i haven't really had time to  play with any iphone hacking
05:24 <+Radix-wrk> Aww..
05:24 <+Radix-wrk> http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/25/1225242&from=rss
05:24 <@rizen> i've seen the article
05:24 <+Radix-wrk> iphone doom is jsut around the corner :)
05:24 <@rizen> just haven't done anything with the info
05:24 <@rizen> when i have the time the first thing i'm going to do is replace the SMS sound
05:24 <@rizen> it's so quiet i can't even hear it
05:25 <+Radix-wrk> heh.. I use the old ICQ sound for my SMS's - Uhoh!
05:29 < SDuensin> Oh no.  If they make Doom run on it, then I have to buy one.
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05:45 < wgGuest53> hi. 
05:46 < wgGuest53> am going to attempt an upgrade, but I think I may have modified some of the templates that webgui comes with. Are those going to be slammed over?
05:46 <@rizen> you created copies or modified the defaults?
05:47 < wgGuest53> unfortunately, modified a couple of the defaults.  like assets and little things splattered around the system.
05:48 <@rizen> whether or not they get overwritten in that case depends upon whether there were any modifications by the developers to those templates....the core templates only get updated if a new feature was added or they needed to be modified to fix a bug
05:49 <@rizen> either way though, your old templates will still be in the system, due to the version control system
05:49 < wgGuest53> oh. as a prior version to the upgrade?
05:49 <@rizen> you'll just have to go rescue them if they get written over
05:49 < wgGuest53> is there a way I can query the database to see which ones I changed?
05:49 <@rizen> yeah...anything new that happens will be in a new version tag specific to the upgrade
05:49 <@rizen> yup
05:50 <@rizen> just go look for the version tag for the upgrades
05:50 < wgGuest53> to see the ones *I* changed?
05:50 <@rizen> oh...no not easily
05:50 < wgGuest53> dang.
05:51 < wgGuest53> I have no idea which ones I've changed.  Maybe there is a modify date somewhere?
05:51 <@rizen> it's possible, but requires quite a bit of database querying...more than i have time to help you with
05:51 <@rizen> absolutely there is on every single one
05:51 <@rizen> but you need something to compare it to
05:52 < wgGuest53> well, the date ofthe last version? no? I'm running 7.2.1 yeah, it's me again. =
05:52 <@rizen> this query will get you started, but from there you'll need to figure it out:
05:52 < wgGuest53> =)
05:52 < wgGuest53> any help would be great!
05:54 <@rizen> select assetData.title, assetData.url, assetData.assetId, template.namespace from assetData left join template on assetData.assetId=template.assetId and assetData.revisionDate=template.revisionDate where template.revisionDate > unix_timestamp('2007-03-01') order by template.revisionDate desc
05:54 <@rizen> i think that will work
05:54 <@rizen> but if it doesn't you're on your own troubleshooting
05:55 < wgGuest53> That's fine. Thanks!
05:55 < wgGuest53> hopefully an easier question. The reason why I never upgraded was because they Totally redid the calendar thing in 7.3.0 which scares me. What am I to expect?
05:56 <@rizen> the new calendar is absolutely amazing compared to the old calendar
05:56 < wgGuest53> the gotchas says custom templates will be deleted. then in 7.38 they are purged, so how am I to get them back if I need it?
05:57 < wgGuest53> hope it's amazing. Does it have an Rss feed? I hope so.
05:57 <@rizen> not an RSS feed, it has an ical feed, which is the standard internet feed type for calendars
05:58 <@rizen> it's what outlook and google and apple mail all use
05:58 < wgGuest53> or is it so amazing that I won't need my templates?  does it replace my templates with it's own? or will I have a template-less calendar.
05:58 < wgGuest53> I guess I haven't done this before. =(
05:58 <@rizen> it replaces your templates with it's own
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05:58 < wgGuest53> I've seen the ical. Do you recommend a site to read up on it?
06:00 <@rizen> just search google for ical
06:01 < wgGuest53> hmm.  here's a thought. I'm the one with a bunch of 404 errors on my filepiled images. Is an upgrade going to fix the data? or do I still need to resave each one manually? (I haven't dug into the db yet)
06:02 < wgGuest53> oh. I wasn't talking with rizen about that.. I was talking with preaction. I suppose you have no idea what I'm talking about =)
06:03 <@rizen> i saw your discussion, and i honestly don't know if you have to manually resave each one or not
06:04 <@rizen> i believe that perlDreamer was the one that fixed that problem, so check back tomorrow or later tonight and see if he's on
06:04 <@rizen> he can tell you
06:04 <@rizen> or just upgrade...you'll know soon enough
06:04 <@rizen> if you have to manually do it, you're in no worse shape than you're in right now
06:05 < wgGuest53> I'm thinking this is a "tomorrow night" project. it's already late. probably a good idea to get some good sleep before this.  I'm a bit nervous....
06:08 <@rizen> probably a good idea
06:08 <@rizen> and make sure you have a good clean backup
06:08 <@rizen> BEFORE you start the upgrade
06:10 < wgGuest53> I'm pretty sure it dumps every night. I've never done a recovery though. Hopefuly I don't need to.
06:10 <+Radix-wrk> is this the image/thumbnails bug?
06:10 < wgGuest53> mmm. image storage bug
06:10 <+Radix-wrk> the one where if you edit the picture it replaces it with the thumbnail instead?
06:11 < wgGuest53> no, I filepiled a bunch of images, and they are all 404's until I "resave" them.
06:11 <+Radix-wrk> Oh.. ok.. haven't encountered that one.
06:12 < wgGuest53> yeah, it's nasty when you file piled a boat load.  =)
06:12 <+Radix-wrk> I bet!
06:12 < wgGuest53> re upgrading: If I have uncommitted changes. what happens to them if i upgrade without committng first?
06:13 < wgGuest53> where are my manners? Hi Radix-wrk.  =)
06:13 <@rizen> nothing
06:13 <@preaction> wgGuest53, if you have uncommitted changes before you upgrade you'll have those same things after you upgrade.
06:13 <+Radix-wrk> Hiya :)
06:15 < wgGuest53> oh good. Thanks everyone!! Have a good night. I'm sure I'll be back tomorrow night=)
06:16 <+Radix-wrk> wgGuest53: can I suggest you get a regular irc client (xchat, mirc, etc) and join the channel that way, it's much nicer than the java based one
06:16 <+Radix-wrk> and in our favour, you'll be more likely to stick around - always good to see new faces on here :)
06:16 < wgGuest53> yes. you may suggest.  =)  
06:16 <+Radix-wrk> heh k :)
06:17 < wgGuest53> I'm on windows now. do you have recommendations? I dont' "chat" at all. other than with you guys.
06:18 <+Radix-wrk> there's lots of free windows clients.  I use xchat personally - www.silverex.org - but any of the others will work as well
06:19 < wgGuest53> ok. I'll give those a try. Thanks again!
06:19 <+Radix-wrk> good luck with your upgrade :)
06:20 < wgGuest53> thanks! bye.
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06:27 <@rizen> whaooo!! with that checkin i'm officially done with my must-have todo list for 7.4
06:28 <@rizen> now i can look into a few "what ifs"
06:29 < vayde> hey rizen, I'll be in Madison on the 12th.  Got time for a brew?
06:31 <@rizen> let me check the calendar
06:31 <@rizen> i'll be here, but we'll have to play it by ear. doing a mail server upgrade that weekend
06:32 <@rizen> give me a call when you have some free time
06:32 < vayde> Ok.  I'll be done with the troops about 16:00 or 16:30
06:32 < vayde> Technically I'll be in Waunakee, but close enough.
06:33 <@rizen> yeah...that's only a few miles from here
06:33 <@rizen> actually, there's a great little pub between here and there
06:34 <@rizen> http://aleasylum.com/cms/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1
06:34 < vayde> got it.  I'll call you when I'm done with the class and see if you have time.
06:34 <@rizen> vrby will be in town too cuz he's working on the mail server upgrade with me
06:34 < vayde> excellent.  be good to tip a few back with you two.
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07:13 <@preaction> jeebus, what haven't we added in 7.4?
07:13 <@rizen> are you referring to all the tickets i'm closing?
07:13 <@preaction> yeah
07:14 <@rizen> hehe
07:14 <@rizen> we added quite a bit
07:14 <@preaction> i mean, i knew a few of the big ones, but apparently there's been a lot of little things as well
07:14 <@rizen> and i'm only doing a quick once over
07:21 <@Haarg> apparently my rewritten macro parser is anywhere from 10% to 1000% faster
07:25 <+Radix-wrk> woot.. that sounds good :)
07:25 <@rizen> 10 to 1000?
07:25 <@rizen> why such a big difference?
07:26 <@rizen> when i hear things that vary that much it makes me suspicious
07:26 <@Haarg> depends on the complexity of the macros
07:26 <@Haarg> it's pretty consitant for each macro text i give it
07:26 <@rizen> like number and nesting?
07:26 <@Haarg> yeah
07:26 <@Haarg> i'm going to add some more tests though
07:26 <@rizen> take the output of the front page of your webgui install
07:27 <@rizen> comment out macro processing so they are left in the HTML
07:27 <@rizen> then run your parser versus the original
07:27 <@rizen> that's an "average" webgui page
07:27 <@Haarg> yeah
07:27 <@rizen> run it 10 times for each parser and average them
07:27 <@rizen> then you'll know
07:29 <+Radix-wrk> are there any perl profilers?
07:29 <@Haarg> i'm using Benchmark
07:29 <@preaction> Devel::DProf
07:30 <@preaction> works under mod_perl with the right settings
07:30 <@preaction> http://www.perl.com/lpt/a/974
07:30 <+Radix-wrk> so that'd be the way youd want to benchmark that kind of stuff and measure performance then
07:32 <@rizen> if you want a lot of detail that's the way you do it
07:32 <@rizen> but for quick benchmarking Time::HiRes is just as good
07:33 <@rizen> i think i've officially closed as many tickets as i can
07:33 <@rizen> that's got to be close to 50 rfe's closed for this release
07:33 <@rizen> people should be happy
07:34 <@rizen> what am i saying. no one is ever happy.
07:34 <@preaction> i'm happy?
07:34 <+Radix-wrk> Who are these 'people' you speak of?  Do I know any of them?
07:36 <+Radix-wrk> If there is going to be any more 7.3.x releases - Could someone please apply my fix for the admin bar zindex bug - it's a one line change.
07:37 <@preaction> i think Haarg tried to do it and replied that it didn't quite work?
07:37 <+Radix-wrk> it definitely does
07:37 <@preaction> i durno, the thread should have his reply
07:38 <+Radix-wrk> just add z-index: 100; to slidepanel.css in the first css block
07:38 <+Radix-wrk> (to .slidePanel)
07:39 <+Radix-wrk> Hmm..
07:41 <+Radix-wrk> Ahh.. it's actually a different bug - just sounded the same. My bad.
07:41 <+Radix-wrk> the z-index fix I made definitely fixes the zenlike theme problem
07:41 <@rizen> radix, no more 7.3 releases
07:42 <+Radix-wrk> and 7.4 won't use the same adminbar, right?
07:42 <@rizen> as of right now it still is
07:42 <@rizen> i'm going to work on that tomorrow
07:42 <+Radix-wrk> k, cool - not worth worrying over then
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08:15 <@rizen> well, i'm outty. ttyl
09:21 <@preaction> beautiful. only 1 hour of bugfixing / testing for 10 hours of coding. that's better than the usual projected 25%
09:21 <@preaction> admin console now can give permissions on a per-panel basis
09:27 <@preaction> i believe this was one of your RFE's, jesse
09:31 <+Radix-wrk> Awesome
09:33 <@preaction> it's not very granular, but all the existing groups are represented, and every panel has at least one group. it's also written in such a way to make future, more granular permissions easy to implement
09:33 <@preaction> hopefully
09:33 <@preaction> oh sunnuva bitch i just did what JT did earlier...
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10:06 <+Radix-wrk> preaction: you could probably close my other rfe related to that item btw - http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/finer-control-of-admin-privileges
10:07 <@preaction> depends, do you want to modify that RFE to include the granularity?
10:08 <@preaction> i mean, imho the current granularity is just about right. but i can close this one and then later someone can open a new one with more specific needs
10:08 <+Radix-wrk> I don't know how your stuff works - but I'd say close it and if I need more granularity then I'll open a new one
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10:09 <+Radix-wrk> All I want is to be able to give user admin to some users - ie. list/add/delete/reset passwords/etc, but not for them to have complete site admin privs
10:09 <@preaction> a 25 difficulty? wtf was he thinking? and he gave the other one a 3 difficulty. it actually took me 12 hours :p
10:10 <+Radix-wrk> yeah, jt doesn't like my rfe's :)
10:10 <@preaction> that'll be possible, easily
10:10 <@preaction> well, we've also had two clients ask for that same feature
10:10 <+Radix-wrk> bonus :)
10:11 <@preaction> we actually implemented it once with uiLevels, and the result is less than awesome
10:11 <@preaction> my new code only shows the user those admin tabs that they can actually use ;)
10:13 <@preaction> well, except for the weird admin functions, like the asset manager, trash, and other stuff that's done as part of WebGUI::Asset (and not as a WebGUI::Operation)
10:13 <+Radix-wrk> that's what you want.. if they can't see it, they can't f**k it up ;)
10:13 <@preaction> well, they could be able to see it, but not be able to actually use it (get a "Permission denied" error when clicking on it)
10:13 <@preaction> but that's just sloppy craftsmanship
10:16  * Radix-wrk dumps a few thousand karma on http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/attache-deletes-to-version-tags
10:16 <+Radix-wrk> JT should've made that easier tho, surely it isn't a difficulty 15 to do that
10:16 <@preaction> the problem is it's a sweeping change
10:17 <@preaction> when you're part of that version tag it must appear as if that asset is deleted
10:17 <@preaction> it's not the work that's hard, it'll be the tracking down all the caveats
10:17 <@preaction> i mean, there are still places that do not use AssetLineage to get assets (AL being able to do what this requires)
10:18 <+Radix-wrk> The way we have to do it now is mark an item as content managers only - and tag it for deletion - then once that version tag has been implemented we delete it.
10:18 <@preaction> i do like the idea though
10:18 <@preaction> perlbot math 9000 / 15
10:18 < perlbot> 600
10:18 <@preaction> i could bump it up a bit
10:19 <@preaction> wait, does that delete the asset when the tag is deleted? or when the tag is committed?
10:19 <+Radix-wrk> when the tag is committed
10:20 <@preaction> but then we lose the biggest thing about versioning: the ability to rollback
10:20 <+Radix-wrk> deletes aren't subject to that anyway
10:20 <@preaction> currently, no, but it'd be nice
10:20 <+Radix-wrk> sure
10:20 <+Radix-wrk> but it's a step in the right direction :)
10:21 <@preaction> if you create what amounts to be an empty asset (basically as barren as possible) and if its status is "approved" and deleteTag is defined, the asset is now deleted
10:21 <@preaction> then you could rollback that revision and it'd be undeleted
10:22 <+Radix-wrk> yes
10:22 <+Radix-wrk> Oh.. 
10:22 <@preaction> currently, all fields in the asset tables need to be able to be undefined anyway, so it'd be possible to do without horrific problems
10:22 <+Radix-wrk> if you created it in that version tag, and deleted it in that version tag - then it wouldn't exist at all
10:23 <@preaction> that'd be a special case, you wouldn't set deleteTag, you'd just remove it
10:23 <+Radix-wrk> yeah
10:23 <@preaction> basically only if the asset is already "approved" would a new revision be added
10:24 <+Radix-wrk> sounds good.. ship it! :)
10:24 <@preaction> there are precedents, only CS with one "approved" version are allowed to have children, for example
10:27 <@preaction> caveat: urls wouldn't be released
10:28 <@preaction> and we already have the trash, do we really need this?
10:29 <@preaction> good idea, but unnecessary and too difficult to need
10:29 <@preaction> just being able to see what will happen before you move an asset to the trash is probably good enough
10:29 <+Radix-wrk> deletes are one of the major things that doesnt' fit into version tags at the moment tho
10:29 <@preaction> right, but i assume that the "delete" is actually "move to trash"
10:30 <@preaction> so it'd be possible to recover from the trash if necessary
10:30 <+Radix-wrk> the big advantage with version tags is that you can work on the site and then deploy the changes in one hit
10:31 <+Radix-wrk> We use it for every major software release, we make changes to a number of pages, restructure things, etc and get everything ready for the day we actually ship it and want to make it available.
10:31 <@preaction> right, that's handled under the current RFE
10:32 <+Radix-wrk> JT's RFE yes
10:32 <@preaction> yeah
10:32 <@preaction> what i was thinking of would basically replace the Trash
10:33 <+Radix-wrk> isn't that what we were talking about?
10:33 <@preaction> i think i actually proposed this earlier
10:33 <@preaction> i was saying being able to rollback a delete AFTER it's committed
10:33 <@preaction> but i forgot about the trash
10:33 <+Radix-wrk> Ahh.. yes, trash would cover that case.
10:34 <+Radix-wrk> though surely a version tag rollback would do the same thing
10:34 <@preaction> no, once the tag is committed, the commit process would see "hmm... we have a deleteTag, okay, time to move this asset to the trash" and everyting would go on as normal
10:35 <@preaction> wait, isn't that what the trash-limbo state is for?
10:36 <@preaction> meh, durno, way too late for me to be doing heavy thinking
10:36  * Radix-wrk looks at the 10 day weather forecast for Amsterdam and sees a lot of rainy days ahead.
10:38 <+Radix-wrk> 3 days before I leave on my webgui sabbatical - and only one working day to go after today.
10:39  * Radix-wrk is pretty excited :)
10:40 <@preaction> sabbatical?
10:42 <+Radix-wrk> I'm spending two weeks with Oqapi in delft, netherlands and immersing myself in webgui, perl and sql and learning everything I can off martin and the other oqapi guys.
10:42 <@preaction> nice
10:42 <+Radix-wrk> then my gf joins me and we set off around europe together for 6 weeks.
10:43 <+Radix-wrk> with a brief stop in vienna for the YAPC::Europe perl conference
10:43 <@preaction> wow
10:44 <+Radix-wrk> judging from the talks at the conference, 90% or so of it is going to go woosh above my head as my knowledge of perl is still very basic, but by the end of it I hope I'll have absorbed something :)
10:44 <@preaction> that's what i've been doing with languages, just listening until i start getting Something ;)
10:44 <@preaction> hell, that's why you're here, no?
10:44 <+Radix-wrk> heh.. you can follow our blog if you like - http://jesseandyumi.blogspot.com/
10:44 <+Radix-wrk> yep - a lot of it goes over my head here, but every now and then I can help out too
10:45 <+Radix-wrk> and yeah, learn by absorption
10:45 <+Radix-wrk> ;)
10:45 <@preaction> okay, i guess i'm ignorant american here, but don't you need to know some other languages to go to these places?
10:45 <+Radix-wrk> I'm a C++ programmer, so familiar with programming, just unfamiliar with perl - and very unfamiliar with perl libraries and development
10:46 <+Radix-wrk> preaction: heh.. I hope not - I only know english myself - but I'll have a phrasebook with me ;)
10:46 <@preaction> i mean, i want to tool around europe for a while someday as well, so i'm trying to learn French (took some in school so doing that one first) and Spanish. then later in life I want to visit India and/or Japan
10:47 <@preaction> jeebus. you're going to do all of this in just 8 weeks?
10:47 <+Radix-wrk> India they speak english pretty well these days ;)
10:47 <+Radix-wrk> LOL - yeah, scary isn't it :)
10:48 <+Radix-wrk> the amsterdam - paris bit is all part of a packaged tour
10:48 <+Radix-wrk> we'll be doing all of that in just 12 days.. so it's a lightning tour with only rome, switzerland and paris being stopped at for more than one day I think
10:49 <+Radix-wrk> then we're off to vienna for the conference (she's going to be exploring vienna while I attend it for three days)
10:50 <+Radix-wrk> We're going to be sick of planes, trains and buses by the end of it I'm sure :)
10:50 <@preaction> oh i imagine
10:50 <@preaction> but, oh, the places you'll go
10:50 <+Radix-wrk> yeah :)
10:50 <+Radix-wrk> looking forward to that side of things :)
10:51 <+Radix-wrk> I just hope the weather improves a bit! :)
10:51 <@preaction> it's europe, isn't it getting up on the rainy season?
10:51 <+Radix-wrk> well, it's their summer - but yeah, they've been getting a lot of rain lately
10:52 <+Radix-wrk> http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/tenday/NLXX0002?from=36hr_outlet_business
10:52 <@preaction> wait, a phrasebook? you've got like 5-6 languages here
10:52 <+Radix-wrk> got a generic european one with all the basic phrases in it actually :)
10:52 <@preaction> ahh
10:52 <@preaction> bonne chance mon ami
10:52 <+Radix-wrk> about 6-7 languages
10:53 <@preaction> je parles francais en peu, mais je parles anglais tres bien
10:53 <+Radix-wrk> and if they can't speak english.. there's always hand signals :)
10:53 <@preaction> true that
10:53 <+Radix-wrk> Just hope I don't hit on the wrong combination and offend someone ;)
10:54 <@preaction> MY MOTHER WAS A SAINT!
10:54 <@preaction> je voudrais une royale avec fromage!
10:54 <+Radix-wrk> hehe ;)
10:55 <@preaction> anyway, i think bedtime. 3:00am isn't bad these days
10:55 <+Radix-wrk> the blog I created a couple of days ago and it's pretty cool.. I can email my photos to a special flickr account and it puts them all in my flickr account and also creates a blog post for me with the text and links the photos on it.
10:55 <@preaction> ttyl, if i don't get a chance have fun on your trip
10:55 <+Radix-wrk> Will do :)
10:55 <+Radix-wrk> nite doug :)
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15:49 < SDuensin> Greetings.
15:52 <@rizen> some people stay up way too late talking
15:56 < SDuensin> hehe
15:56 < SDuensin> I think I found a fix for my WRE problem...
15:56 < SDuensin> I erased the server.  :-)
15:56 < SDuensin> I found out that I can get a 32 bit OS on it.
15:59 <@rizen> seems drastic, but if it works, who cares
16:01 < SDuensin> Well, 64 bit was going nowhere.  Not only did I have the issues with the WRE running wild, but you couldn't upload anything.
16:02 <@rizen> not to mention that you weren't likely going to get any help fixing it since we don't have a way to test on 64 bit yet
16:02 < SDuensin> Yup.  :-)
16:02 < SDuensin> I'm still asking around to get you root space on a 64 bit box somewhere.
16:14 <@rizen> sweet
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20:23 < cap10morgan> Is it possible to set some properties of an asset as required? So when someone deploys a new one or edits an existing one, they have to set this property or it won't save.
20:23 <@rizen> nope
20:24 <@rizen> what's the problem you're trying to solve?
20:24 < cap10morgan> i have a custom asset that we deploy quite a bit (glorified dataform, basically), but my content folks often forget to set one of the properties in it and it makes it just not work
20:24 < cap10morgan> so i was hoping i could spit an error at them when they try to do that
20:25 <@rizen> so this is an asset you wrote?
20:25 < cap10morgan> yeah
20:25 <@rizen> there is an error handler mechanism you could employ to force it if you like
20:25 <@rizen> i thought you were talking about core assets
20:26 < cap10morgan> ah, sorry, nope
20:26 < cap10morgan> ok, i'll look into that
20:27 <@rizen> here's how it works
20:27 <@rizen> in processPropertiesFromFormPost
20:27 <@rizen> all you have to do is return an error message
20:27 <@rizen> then the new object will be purged
20:27 <@rizen> and you'll be returned to the edit screen
20:27 <@rizen> along with the error message
20:27 < cap10morgan> ok, cool
20:28 <@rizen> you can see an example of this in SQL Form
20:31  * SDuensin is 32 bit again!   Whooo!
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21:55 < SDuensin> In modperl.error.log, is this bad?
21:55 < SDuensin> [Thu Jul 26 06:50:23 2007] [warn] Init: Session Cache is not configured [hint: SSLSessionCache]
21:59 <@rizen> no
22:04 < SDuensin> k
22:04 < SDuensin> thanks
22:34 < cap10morgan> rizen: at the last WUC you or someone else was saying that you guys were working on a WebGUI third-party developers directory kinda thing. has any progress been made on that?
22:35 <@rizen> i did?
22:35 < cap10morgan> may not have been you :)
22:35 <@rizen> it must have been someone else
22:35 < cap10morgan> some PB staff person though
22:35 <@rizen> maybe it was frank
22:35 < cap10morgan> they said PB had too much going on, so they wanted to get a network of certified third-party providers together to send folks to
22:35 <@rizen> he was thinking about implementing some sort of a bounty network
22:36 <@rizen> we certainly do have a lot going on. are you interested in doing some contract work?
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22:37 < cap10morgan> possibly, but i'm mainly interested in who all i should be submitting requests for quotes and proposals to for webgui work
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22:37 < cap10morgan> we also have a lot more going on than we can handle internally :)
22:38 <@rizen> well we have a network of developers that we use, so you can submit it to us, and if we can't handle it we'll either manage it and bring in contract developers, or hand it off directly
22:38 <@rizen> most of our developers though don't like doing the project management part of it
22:38 <@rizen> so we usually do that, and then they do the work
22:40 <@rizen> we always have more than we can handle, but we always seem to get stuff done on time too. that's the beauty of a contractor pool i guess
22:40 < cap10morgan> gotcha
22:41 <@preaction> couldn't we set up a forum on the webgui.org site for webgui job postings?
22:41 <@rizen> we could but then they aren't qualified
22:42 <@rizen> that's the problem with hiring someone out of the netherworld
22:42 <@preaction> i'm saying for other people to use, plainblack can do what plainblack does, cap10morgan wanted a way to get in touch with contractors (i think)
22:43 < cap10morgan> preaction: yep
22:43 <@rizen> and he can just post out there for that sort of thing
22:43 <@rizen> what i'm saying though is that he's not going to know who he's getting hiring from the netherworld
22:43 <@preaction> with an auction asset in "bid down" mode, you could submit a job with a proposed completion time and/or cost and have the contractors bid on it ;)
22:44 <@preaction> true enough
22:44 < cap10morgan> i realize it's sort of not in your best interest to help potential clients find other providers of the services you guys sell, but since frank mentioned something about it at the wuc, i thought i'd ask :)
22:44 <@preaction> but same is true for any job-posting site really, you'd need to interview and conduct your own screening process
22:44 <@rizen> in the end people mostly come back to us anyway even if they end up going somewhere else first
22:45 <@rizen> so it's not as big of a burden as one might think
22:45 <@preaction> well, we are the best
22:45  * preaction pats himself on the back
22:45 <@rizen> either the person they hired to build it did a bad job or isn't getting it done on time
22:45 <@rizen> or that person did the initial work, but now doesn't want to do the maintenance work or the add-ons
22:45 <@rizen> either way most people end up coming back to us
22:46 < SDuensin> It's cause we love you, rizen.
22:46 <@rizen> i think it's just the difference between hiring a freelancer and a company
22:46 <@rizen> the company is always there, the freelancer can do the gig and leave
22:46 <@preaction> which means it's almost like a lead-in to an account with plainblack ;)
23:15 <@rizen> anybody have IE7 to test with?
23:15 <@rizen> and can check out from subversion?
23:15 <@rizen> i need to make sure the new admin bar will work with 7
23:17 <@rizen> or for that matter i can send you a zip file to test with
23:17 <@rizen> email
23:17 <@preaction> i can do that
23:17 <@preaction> i can't checkout, my test env is not visible to my IE currently
23:17 <@preaction> but i can look at the zip file
23:17 <@rizen> it's just html
23:17 <@rizen> no perl
23:19 <@rizen> ok zip file is on it's way
23:19 <@preaction> kk
23:19 <@rizen> oh crap
23:19 <@rizen> i just realized that it's looking for yui and everything too
23:19 <@rizen> you won't be able to test it that way
23:20 <@rizen> i'll have to find another way
23:20 <@preaction> you can use the URLs from yahooapis.com if you want
23:21 <@preaction> http://yui.yahooapis.com/2.2.2/build/yahoo/yahoo-min.js <- like that
23:22 <@rizen> graham is brilliant
23:22 <@rizen> multipleies
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23:32 <@preaction> rizen, works beautifully in IE7
23:38 <@rizen> sweet, thanks
23:39 <@rizen> just tested in ie7 myself seems to work there too
23:39 <@rizen> sorry, i mean ie6
23:39 <@rizen> interestingly enough it doesn't work in ie3
23:39 <@rizen> but it does downgrade
23:40 <@preaction> you mean ie3 actually renders the thing?
23:40 <@rizen> it renders it as a definition list
23:40 <@rizen> so yes
23:40 <@rizen> it renders it
23:40 <@preaction> not bad
23:41 <@rizen> now i just have to integrate it in with the current monster so that people don't have to update their templates
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23:46 <+crythias> hee
23:47 <+crythias> so then I wooted the other day to get those usb sd cards...
23:47 <+crythias> 'cause I wanted to have some portable bootable DamnSmall Linux. because I could.
23:48 <+crythias> yeah. a bootable Os to fit in your wallet.
23:48 <+crythias> and then someone suggested to me that I might try to put WebGUI on one. 'cept it might be hard to compress down to 512MB. Maybe. 
23:49 <+crythias> but then, what to call it?
23:49 <+crythias> A-ha! PenGUI
23:49 <+crythias> and then I thought... how cool is that? It's like penguin without the N.
23:49 <+crythias> ah. fun times, fun times. 
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23:50  * crythias paypals y'all a quarter so ya ken pay attention.
23:54 <@rizen> crythias...i'm taking your advice
23:54 <+crythias> oh?
23:54 <@rizen> the new adminbar is going to use position:fixed instead of sliding
23:54 <@rizen> and i found a trick to make that work in ie6
23:54 <+crythias> what the heck made those word come from your fingertips?
23:55 <@rizen> it's just a better way to go
23:55 <@rizen> the thing that changed my mind was that i found a way to work around the problem in ie6
23:55 <+crythias> um. but you're still going to shift content on the page, though, right?
23:56 <@rizen> yes
23:56 <@rizen> that is until i get the new admin console up and running
23:56 <@rizen> then all the content will be in an iframe, so i won't need to shift it over
23:56 <+crythias> mmhm. that makes sense to me.
23:57 <@rizen> this is a stop gap, cuz it's going to take a really long time to do what i want to do with the admin console
23:57 <@rizen> mainly cuz i'm slow at javascripting
23:57 <@preaction> why would apache be consistently stopping sending a page when it reaches 1.32M
23:57 <+crythias> well, cool.
23:58 <@rizen> preaction: no idea
23:58 <+crythias> and I'm trying to figure out something about the difference between desktop publishing, asset positioning and tinymce javascript.
23:59 <+crythias> but you solved the issue before I thought too hard about it.
--- Day changed Fri Jul 27 2007
00:00 <+crythias> the long and short was trying to figure out if there was a way to combine tinymce and asset positioning in a text area. I can't explain it much more than a microcosm of the admin mode in a text area.
00:00 <+crythias> admin mode/page layout
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02:11 < dannymk> Hi everyone
02:11 <@rizen> howdy
02:12 < dannymk> does anyone know what is the current version of yui for the latest version of WebGUI?
02:12 <@rizen> Radix_ you were the one that really wanted the new admin bar, right?
02:12 < dannymk> nope
02:12 < dannymk> I am building a new Wobject to share with the community
02:12 <@rizen> if so then i just checked it in and it works in ie6 and 7 as well as safari and firefox
02:12 <@rizen> dannymk i was talking to Radix_
02:12 < dannymk> ah, sorry
02:12 <@rizen> what is your new asset?
02:13 <@rizen> 7.4, which comes out monday has the latest and greatest yui
02:13 < dannymk> Well, you guys are going to flip but I believe WebGUI needs a native chat Wobject
02:13 < dannymk> I don't want to configure or stand up a Jabber server or join one
02:14 < dannymk> I really think that webgui is missing such a wobject
02:14 <@rizen> the current version is 0.12.0
02:14 <@rizen> we have actually written one
02:14 <@rizen> it just isn't ready for the core yet
02:14 <@rizen> so we haven't put it in
02:14 < dannymk> are you talking to me?
02:14 <@rizen> yes
02:15 <@rizen> preaction wrote the chat engine for webgui
02:15 < dannymk> ok, did you take advanatage of yui xmlrequest
02:15 <@rizen> yup
02:15 < dannymk> ok cool
02:15 < dannymk> when will it be available?
02:15 <@rizen> that doesn't mean that yours wouldn't be better
02:15 <@rizen> no eta...we don't have anyone to finish it right now
02:15 <@rizen> to put it into the core
02:16 <@rizen> it's up and running as is, but it needs some cleanup work
02:16 < dannymk> can I get the source?
02:16 <@rizen> so you're volunteering?
02:16 < dannymk> if no one is doing it and I am beggining to build one I think it is only fair, right?
02:17 <@preaction> it doesn't use ajax, it was a requirement that it didn't. the groundwork is in place but the wobject was done to other specifications
02:17 < dannymk> why was it a requirement 
02:17 <@rizen> really? i thought it was a requirement that it had to use ajax?
02:18 <@preaction> oh, right, one screen does use ajax
02:18 <@preaction> but the main, user-facing screen for the chat does not
02:18 < dannymk> that is one application that cries for ajax
02:18 <@preaction> the moderator / "guest" screen is completely ajax
02:19 < dannymk> OK, can I see it?
02:19 <@rizen> dannymk, if you're willing to do the few cleanup things that we need done
02:19 < dannymk> do you have a spec document or a requirement document?
02:19 <@preaction> i could take an hour or so this weekend and do some cleanup. there's at least one bad programming practice i should remove before i give it to anyone
02:19 <@rizen> fair enough
02:20 <@rizen> can you wait until monday dannymk?
02:20 < dannymk> sure
02:20 <@preaction> (basically there's an ajax app on the chat session edit form that will update things without hitting "Save", which is not good)
02:20 < dannymk> can I ask a few questions about it?
02:20 <@preaction> surely
02:20 <@rizen> preaction will clean up what he needs to, and i'll come up with a list of things i need done
02:20 < dannymk> how did you implement the actual chat box for the users?  Did you use a macro?
02:21 <@preaction> i'm also going to clean the moderator / "guest" screen up a bit
02:21 <@preaction> the users, during the chat, are brought to an html file in the uploads node (currently). this was a requirement because there could potentially be thousands of users hitting that asset during the session. it may not be a requirement now
02:22 <@preaction> the html file is updated every 60 seconds with a workflow activity, and javascript will refresh them
02:22 <@preaction> basically it's just an asset, the main view() method is the actual conversation
02:23 < dannymk> OK, I am guessing that you added a profile field to the users called "Chat nick" or something like that?
02:23 <@preaction> there are three assets: the chat list wobject, which contains chat session wobjects, which contains chat post assets
02:23 <@preaction> nope, it uses their username / alias like the rest of webgui
02:24 < dannymk> I was thinking that the username would be a bad field to use, I thought using a "Chat Nick" would be best
02:24 <@preaction> it's a lot like the collaboration system, just faster
02:25 <@preaction> why would it be bad? i mean, there could be a special-case for Visitors if you want to allow them to participate
02:25 < dannymk> NO, some companies do not like their users listed that way.
02:25 < dannymk> they think if you have the username that is half the battle
02:26 <@rizen> that's why there is an Alias field
02:26 <@preaction> all the user profile info is exposed to the template, you can use the firstName / lastName fields if you desire
02:26 <@rizen> which is what preaction said
02:27 < dannymk> OK, the alias it is!
02:27 <@preaction> and we should probably aim for full sub-classing, so people can make their own chat session or chat post objects (to override the getTemplateVars method)
02:27 < dannymk> I was thinking of adding a banned user list per user, did you do that?
02:28 <@preaction> per user? no. but you'd probably want it per-session, or you can remove the user from the "Group to participate" group
02:28 <@preaction> also, all the chats are moderated chats currently. only moderators can approve / deny posts
02:29 < dannymk> OK, so we can make improvements.  Where did you guys come up with the idea?
02:29 <@preaction> there'd probably have to be an option for "don't require moderator approval" for a session, so that moderators can still remove posts, but they don't have to approve them
02:30 < dannymk> well, I think that like with almost any chat program individuals should be able to decide who they want to accept messages from
02:30 <@preaction> away back when we added the link to the IRC client on plainblack.com was when it was first thought of (i think snapcount proposed it)
02:30 <@preaction> oh, private messages aren't handled by this at all
02:30 <@preaction> if you want private messages, 7.4 already has a mechanism for it
02:31 < dannymk> we have to get that in there eventually
02:31 <@preaction> it'd be up to JT if that feature needed to be added
02:31 <@preaction> and if it did, then an ignore feature would need to be added too, as you said
02:32 < dannymk> cool
02:32 <@preaction> i can just imagine WWW::Mechanize bots spamming users of this thing :p
02:32 < dannymk> maybe there could be a way to avoid the bots
02:32 <@rizen> it really needs two interfaces
02:33 <@rizen> a dynamic ajax interface with all the bells and whistles for small chat groups
02:33 < dannymk> The one I wrote about 6 years ago had 2
02:33 <@preaction> if anything, you can just use my code as a guide. there are probably things that could be done better (the monolithic setPost sub in the chat session object was probably a Bad Idea on my part)
02:33 <@rizen> and  the flat html one that it has now
02:33 < dannymk> OK
02:34 <@rizen> as preaction said, this one is designed to handle thousands of simultaneous users
02:34 <@preaction> the code itself is pretty solid though, it's the cleanup and some refactoring needed, then the features it's mising
02:34 <@rizen> a flashy ajax one wouldn't be able to handle that many users without a huge cluster
02:34 < dannymk> I bet
02:35 < dannymk> maybe we can build a setting into the Wobject to turn Ajax on/off
02:35 <@rizen> yup
02:35 <@preaction> well, if you sent a "lastUpdated" time to the server with your ajax update request, it could return to you only those posts that actually changed. it would keep XX posts in the buffer, update / add / remove as necessary, prune to XX, and then redraw the page
02:35 <@rizen> and that would just change the link for users from one to the other
02:35 <@preaction> so to minimize the amount of data needed for each ajax request
02:36 <@rizen> yeah, but no matter what, that's going against code and the database
02:36 <@rizen> and that's slower than a flat file
02:36 <@preaction> yeah
02:36 <@rizen> anyway...gotta head...talkl to you guys later
02:36 < dannymk> Is there a way to use the MemCache without overwhelming the system?
02:36 <@preaction> have fun
02:36 < dannymk> later
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02:37 <@preaction> dannymk, i think memcache is a new 7.4 feature, and probably, yes. there are optimizations that can be done, but we should probably wait for that (to figure out where it needs them)
02:37 <@preaction> plus, since they're all assets, there's some caching already built-in
02:38 <@preaction> i'll attempt to get it cleaned up for you for monday, but i'm moving into my new house tomorrow so it may be a little later
02:38 < dannymk> no problem
02:39 < dannymk> just send me an email to danny_mk@yahoo.com when you get it done so that I can take a look at it
02:39 < dannymk> I will stop the development on the one I was working on and work on something else for now
02:40 < dannymk> By the way, is there a "New features coming in release x.x" anywhere on the WebGUI site?
02:40 <@preaction> https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/browse/WebGUI/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt
02:41 < dannymk> Thank you.
02:41 <@preaction> https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/view/WebGUI/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt <- this is it
02:42 < dannymk> yup, I got an error the first time
02:45 < dannymk> Is there a captcha enable for the login template?
02:46 <@preaction> it's in the Auth settings i think
02:46 < dannymk> yup, I have that set but id does not seem to display
02:47 < dannymk> oh well, I will have to play with it a bit.
02:47 <@preaction> are you using the default webgui anonymous registration template?
02:47 < dannymk> yup
02:47 <@preaction> weird. you might want to check the error log
02:51 < dannymk> hmmm... no errors
02:51 < dannymk> and this is a brand new installatino of 7.4
02:52 < dannymk> 7.3.21-stable
02:52 < dannymk> sorry, wishful thinking :-)
03:00 < dannymk> Hmmm... I can see the "create.form.captcha" vars in the template but the image just does not show up
03:00 < dannymk> have you ever seen that work?
03:30 <@preaction> i remember, check your mod_proxy error log for 404 errors
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04:19 < wgGuest41> hello?
04:19 <+Radix-wrk> hello
04:19 < wgGuest41> I just tried an upgrade and I got a bunch of errors. would you be able to help?
04:20 <+Radix-wrk> Hmm.. if you get an error, the first thing I'd suggest is to roll back to your previous backup.
04:20 <+Radix-wrk> perlbot paste
04:20 < perlbot> Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.
04:21 <+Radix-wrk> and use one of the above links to post your errors into
04:21 < wgGuest41> I'm not too worried. it's a test site.  It's the upgrade script that gave errors like: DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Unknown column 'skipNotification' in 'field list' at
04:21 < wgGuest41> I'm going from 7.2.1 to 7.3.9
04:22 <+Radix-wrk> Why 7.3.9? and not 7.3.20?
04:22 < wgGuest41> I didn't see 7.3.20 =)
04:22 <+Radix-wrk> Actually.. 7.3.22 is the latest
04:22 < wgGuest41> oh.
04:22 -!- Radix-wrk changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.3.22 | WRE 0.7.2 ] .:. Come To The WUC http://www.plainblack.com/wuc .:. Feel free to ask questions on here - but make sure you stick around long enough for us to answer! :)
04:23 <+Radix-wrk> Okay.. I'd roll back and then try upgrading to 7.3.22 instead
04:23 < wgGuest41> ok. I gotta step a way a second here. 
04:24 <+Radix-wrk> I do recall some upgrade script bugs in the earlier 7.3 builds - and they'd be fixed in the newer version.
04:25 <@preaction> yeah, that bug was fixed later
04:27 < wgGuest41> ok. im back
04:28 < wgGuest41> I guess i'll rollback and start over.
04:28 <+Radix-wrk> Good luck :)
04:28 < wgGuest41> do i just rollback the db or do I have to reciover my files?
04:29 <+Radix-wrk> Just rollback the db should be enough
04:29 < wgGuest41> k.I have to log off here. I;m sure I'll be back later tonight.
04:29 < wgGuest41> thanks!
04:29 <+Radix-wrk> np :)
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04:53 <+Radix-wrk> Anyone got any clue as to why people seeing my webgui sites are seeing old versions.  Neither IE nor Firefox seem to refresh the pages correctly - they always load from cache and I have to get them to manually purge their cache before they can see any of the changes I've made
04:53 <+Radix-wrk> WRE 0.7.2 and 7.3.21
04:55 <+Radix-wrk> Even in firefox, if I load a page and it shows the old one, I have to hold down shift and reload before it picks up the proper version of it.
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05:10 < wgGuest02> hello?
05:10 < wgGuest02> I'm back. - I'm the one with the upgrade from 7.2.1 to 7.3.*22*
05:11 < wgGuest02> the upgrade went actually much better than the first round.  
05:11 < wgGuest02> however, when it came to installing Weather::Com::Finder, it kinda blew up.  Any ideas?
05:11 < wgGuest02> It crashed at installing the dependancy Time::Format
05:14 < wgGuest02> what information will you need? hoping forsome pointers. basically make test returned bad status, won't install without force. Is it ok to install with force?
05:22 < wgGuest02> hello? I hope somebody is here.
05:23 <@preaction> wgGuest02, yes, it's okay to force install that module
05:24 < wgGuest02> oh hi!
05:25 < wgGuest02> I've never had much luck with cpan. It makes me nervous.
05:26 < wgGuest02> on a nother topic. I tried xchat, didn't quite understand how to use it. I have to connect to ircnet and then specify the channel #webgui, right?
05:26 <@preaction> right
05:26 <@preaction> we're on freenode
05:28 < wgGuest02> oh.good grief. I have no idea where I got that idea. I read your page on your site.
05:28 < wgGuest02> that would explain why no one was in that chatroom. =)
05:28 < wgGuest02> I'm going to force install the thing. Gotta log off to do it. Thanks for your help!
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05:43 < elnino> hello?
05:45 < elnino> I was just talking with preaction. Hopefully this xchat is working now.
05:45 <@preaction> its working, but i'm away
05:46 < elnino> I just did an upgrade to 7.3.22. went swimmingly with the help of you all. Thank you.
05:47 < elnino> however, I still have the problem that I had before the upgrade.
05:48 < elnino> and that is that when I filepiled a boatload of images,and when try to access them via the browser either with the webgui url or the upload/* url, it returns a 404 error.
05:49 < elnino> I can "fix" the error by resaving each image (without making any changes) and the image will appear. but that is aLOT of images to manually resave.
05:59 < elnino> was wondering if there is something I can look at to figure out what the problem may be?
06:00 < elnino> I know that when I resave it, the upload/* url doesn't change. So I'm wondering if there is something else, like a flag in the db
06:00 < elnino> all things have been committed, and cache has been cleared (rm -r method)
06:02 <+Radix-wrk> Hi elnino
06:02 <+Radix-wrk> fraid I can't help much with the image problem tho
06:02 < elnino> hi.
06:02 <+Radix-wrk> preaction might be more help when he comes back
06:03 < elnino> That's ok. while I was waiting, I thought of something I could try.  I'll come back in about 10 mintues. 
06:03 < elnino> when do you think preaction will be back? it's kinda late over here.
06:03 <+Radix-wrk> One thing you could try tho - take a snapshot of the sql, resave one file - then take another snapshot of the sql and do a diff
06:03 < elnino> =) that's exactly what I was going to do!!!
06:03 <+Radix-wrk> preaction is a bit of a night owl :)
06:04 < elnino> hmm. well, I'll try it and see if I can see anything. I'll be back.
06:04 < elnino> thanks!
06:04 <+Radix-wrk> no telling what time he'll stay up until
06:04 <+Radix-wrk> good luck :)
06:04 < elnino> bye
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06:10 < cap10morgan> dlobo: we can do the trunk merge now if you want to
06:10 < cap10morgan> oops, sorry, wrong channel :)
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06:59 < elnino> hello?
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07:03 < elnino> hey radix, if you are there.. I just wanted to let you know tha tI did a diff, and it was completely useless, because I was doing extended inserts. So I changed my backup scipt to use complete inserts so the next time this happens, I'll be able to compare readable stuff.
07:03 < elnino> I guess I have to manually resave all the images. I'm not too excited about that...
07:05 <+Radix-wrk> bummer, that sucks
07:05 < elnino> yes. Well, I had enough fun. It was a sucessfull upgrade. Thanks!
07:06 < elnino> bye.
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07:07 <@rizenisaway> he should have stuck around
07:07 <@rizenisaway> select * from asset left join assetData using (assetId) left join FileAsset using (assetId,revisionDate) left join ImageAsset using (assetId,revisionDate) where assetId='xxx';
07:07 <@rizenisaway> if he ran  that before and after a save
07:08 <@rizenisaway> it would have told him everything he needs to know
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16:47 < AMH_bob> Good morning everyone, it's a lovely day here in Holland, 21 deg C / 70 deg F, the sun is shining and it's almost weekend.
16:48 <+MrHairgrease> Good morning
16:48 <+MrHairgrease> My day is good too
16:48 <+MrHairgrease> Just returne from hollidays
16:48 < nuba> morning. its rainy, windy, and cold in Rio de Janeiro/Brazil
16:48 <+MrHairgrease> and the weekend is already beginning
16:48 < AMH_bob> :-D
16:51 <@rizenisaway> it rained last night, and now it's humid here
16:51 -!- rizenisaway is now known as rizen
16:52 -!- rizen is now known as rizenishere
16:54 < nuba> rizenishere: how's the clock ticking for 7.4 ? how many hours do I have left ?
16:56 <@rizenishere> you have until midnight
16:56 < nuba> cool
16:58 <+MrHairgrease> it's nice to see that the dev list is being used again
16:58 < nuba> you'll have it
16:58 <@rizenishere> that's my plan
16:58 <@rizenishere> i've decided that i'm going to pose a question to it every week
16:59 <@rizenishere> i'm sort of the one that killed it
16:59 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
16:59 <@rizenishere> i used to pose questions to it, but then i moved here
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17:03 <+crythias> howdy
17:03 <+MrHairgrease> hi
17:04 < AMH_bob> Hello
17:04 <+crythias> I just posted an rfe that could pay $$$
17:04 <@rizenishere> are you talking about openid?
17:04 <+crythias> yeah
17:05 <@rizenishere> it's a duplicate
17:05 <+crythias> oh?oh.
17:05 <+crythias> sorry.
17:05 <+crythias> 4000 entries, of course I'd find a duplicate.
17:05 <+crythias> sniff
17:05 <@rizenishere> i only know that cuz i went through the whole list yesterday cleaning it up
17:06 <+crythias> ok. deleted
17:06 <@rizenishere> http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/openid#mRsVPo4-VT3Cv61eV1rRcw
17:06 <@rizenishere> and the original has karma already
17:06 <@rizenishere> =)
17:06 <+crythias> mm hm. 
17:07 <+crythias> ok. so... is the bounty accessible to WebGUI?
17:08 <+crythias> I don't know your dl volume.
17:08 <@rizenishere> apparently we're not worthy
17:09 <@rizenishere> we get over 5k in downloads per month
17:09 <@rizenishere> but i have no idea how to know how man public internet users we have
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17:09 <@rizenishere> i'm sure it's over 200k though
17:09 <@rizenishere> one of our clients alone has 100,000 people registered on their site
17:09 <+crythias> I would have to agree with that, though WebGUI isn't necessarily a "Portal"
17:11 <+crythias> change one config setting... I at first thought, nah. but then again, yeah. only config change is in the authmethod of .conf
17:11 <+crythias> I mean, for the user, I'd guess.
17:11 <@rizenishere> or the default auth method in the settings
17:12 <+crythias> ok.
17:12 <+crythias> It would be nice to be able to support the ability to share logon across multiple webgui dbs.
17:13 <@rizenishere> cry you don't have to convince me, i've wanted to add it to webgui for a long time, i just don't have the resources to assign to it and i have too much stuff to do as it is
17:17 <+crythias> :) ok. that's a good enough answer for me.
17:17 < ckotil> isnt that in 7.4 ?
17:17 <@rizenishere> maybe i'll find some time in 7.5 to do it
17:17 <@rizenishere> no
17:17 < ckotil> doh.
17:17 < ckotil> ive been hyping that up for weeks now
17:17 < ckotil> to my group
17:17 < ckotil> o well.
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17:18 < ckotil> oh db's
17:18 < ckotil> sorry. i read that as domains
17:18 < ckotil> ;)
17:18 < ckotil> that IS in 7.4 , no?
17:18 <@rizenishere> i said that looking into some sort of single sign on is on my maybe list for 7.4
17:18 <@rizenishere> but it i didn't make it 
17:18 < ckotil> im working some magic to get cosign integrated.
17:19 < AMH_bob> OpenID, hmmm, I've just checked it out... looks all right
17:20  * MrHairgrease checks out a cool beer which also happens to look all right...
17:20 <+crythias> on another note, I realize WebGUI will be too big to put on the same 512MB SD card as the OS.
17:20 <@rizenishere> openid is pretty cool, and i do want it in webgui for the unwashed masses, but for my needs it's not cool enough
17:21 <+crythias> my realization makes me sad, but I'm sure I'll be ok if I simply use one for os boot and the other to hold /data
17:22 <+crythias> which, on the face of it, is pretty darn cool.
17:22 <+crythias> I'll boot ubuntu on one of the disks and run WebGUI off the other.
17:22 <+crythias> and fit it in my wallet
17:23 <+crythias> (I wooted the USB capable 512MB SD cards the other day)
17:25 <+crythias> hee :) solid state WebGUI.
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> rizen
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> is the template for the dev cs based on the phpbb templates?
17:27 <@rizenishere> MrHairgrease
17:27 <@rizenishere> could be...don't know, steve designed it
17:28 <@rizenishere> but i think you're probably right
17:28 <+MrHairgrease> it looks good
17:28 <+MrHairgrease> and i need something like those
17:28 <@rizenishere> i think he contributed it to the user contribs area
17:28 <+MrHairgrease> i'll try the phpbb templates
17:28 <+MrHairgrease> yeah i know
17:30 <@rizenishere> martin: 1pm, day 3, is you
17:30 <+MrHairgrease> ok
17:30 <+MrHairgrease> thanks
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18:41 < ckotil> yay! cosign is integrated.
18:41 < ckotil> we had to use a macro as a redirect that accepetd a parameter that contained the users current location.
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20:54 <@rizenishere> hello me, i hate me, why do i suck so much, that is the question
20:54 <@rizenishere> stupid config files
22:56 < nuba> hey, question..
22:57 < nuba> my asset needs to call some javascript which in turn needs to be changed dynamically
22:57 < nuba> what im doing is having a www_mapFunctions sub,
22:58 <@rizenishere> with you so far
22:58 < nuba> which does as $self->session->http->setMimeType('application/javascript');
22:58 <@rizenishere> should probably be text/javascript
22:58 -!- rizenishere is now known as rizen
22:59 < nuba> ok
22:59 <@rizen> continue
23:00 < nuba> well is that ok? instead of trying to separate some js code on /extras/wobject/myasset/foo.js and the vars set at the head..
23:00 <@rizen> absolutely
23:00 <@rizen> if the javascript is static then it would be better to serve it out of extras
23:00 <@rizen> but if it's dynamic, as you said
23:00 <@rizen> then there's nothing wrong witht hat
23:00 < nuba> ok
23:00 < nuba> thx
23:52 <@rizen> svn co https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/WebGUI
23:52 <@rizen> ckotil can you see that
23:52 <@rizen> you don't seem to see the stuff i type in private messaging
--- Day changed Sat Jul 28 2007
00:07 < nuba> can I use the IntSlider WebGUI::Form when using autoGenerate ? 
00:08 < nuba> i'll give it a try
00:09 <@rizen> i don't see why not
00:10 <@rizen> ckotil did you see what i typed to you?
00:35 < ckotil> got it
00:36 < ckotil> thx
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01:38 < nuba> whohaowhaohwa! almost there!
01:40 <@rizen> sweet
01:40 <@rizen> can't wait to see it
02:15 < nuba> rizen: around?
02:17 < nuba> im in doubt about how to handle the infoWindows (these marquee-like things on google maps)
02:19 < nuba> wether to download them together right away and assign the content at the time the markers are drawn
02:19 < nuba> or requesting the infoWidow content from WebGUI on every click to a marker
02:20 < nuba> the first makes most sense
02:21 < nuba> ok, moving on with it..
02:22 <@rizen> methinks every click
02:22 <@rizen> the reason i say that is because if there are a lot of markers then it will take forever to generate/download
02:23 < nuba> yes
02:23 <@rizen> for example, what if we do a who's using webgui map, and there are 20,000 webgui users
02:23 < nuba> now I could be getting only the content, with little formatting, using JSON
02:23 < nuba> instead of getting the formatted html for each marker
02:23 < nuba> and for this case of 20k users..
02:24 <@rizen> i understand that, and you should do that, but even then, downloading 20,000 people worth of markers is big
02:24 < nuba> i'll have to add some optimization to this code after 7.4.0
02:24 <@rizen> or is it only downloading the markers for people that are visible
02:24 < nuba> ie. treat lots of small points like a cluster
02:24 <@rizen> ok...well do what you think is right, and then we'll optimize after the release
02:25 < nuba> yep
02:25 <@rizen> as long as it's feature complete, that's what matters
02:25 <@rizen> anymore questions? i'm shutting down for a while
02:25 < nuba> yes, well, this is it
02:25 < nuba> the drag from outside the map
02:26 < nuba> onto the map
02:26 < nuba> thats a bit complicated, so i'm working out  different interface to add markers and set the zoom/center
02:26 <@rizen> fair enough. 
02:27 <@rizen> as long as it works in a point and click manner
02:27 < nuba> it'll be two buttons, one labeled 'lock zoom' and the other 'set center'
02:27 <@rizen> so that the user doesn't have to know lat/long codes
02:27 < nuba> it wont
02:27 <@rizen> you mean "they" not "it" right?
02:27 <@rizen> the users won't
02:27 < nuba> also, in that spec, you added some fields like Address, Zip, State, etc. 
02:28 < nuba> we could make use of the geocoding to have that "extracted"from the map instead of entering by hand
02:28 < nuba> that would look better, i think
02:28 <@rizen> not sure what geocoding is
02:28 < nuba> i meant: it wont require the user to know lat/long
02:29 <@rizen> if it makes it easier for the user i'm ok with it, but it has to be 100% accurate, because i envision people using this as a store/business locator on a lot of web sites
02:29 <@rizen> so the address has to be perfect
02:29 < nuba> i see
02:29 <@rizen> it's not just about being visual
02:29 <@rizen> it's also about using it to actually mail something somewhere, or drive there
02:30 < nuba> geocoding is translating from "1600 amphitheatre mtn view ca" to lat/long and pretty addresses like "1600 Amphitheatre Pkwy, Mountain View, CA 94043, USA"
02:30 < nuba> I did read about adding directions to it, but I guess thats too much to cram into 7.4 now
02:31 <@rizen> you seem to know a lot more about this stuff than i do, so i'll trust you. as long as it accomplishes the main task that i set out for you in the spec which are:
02:31 < nuba> but I'm excited about this asset, and I'm all for making it nicer and better
02:31 <@rizen> 1) no lat/long, just point and click
02:31 <@rizen> 2) it has to work as a business locator
02:31 <@rizen> 3) it has to work as a "where are webgui users"
02:31 <@rizen> that's awesome...i hope that the first version of it rules
02:32 <@rizen> and then in 7.5 we can make the second version blow people's sox off
02:32 <@rizen> =)
02:32 < nuba> cool
02:32 <@rizen> ok, checking out for a while...i'll be back later tonight
02:32 -!- rizen is now known as rizenisout
02:32 < nuba> ok, ttyl
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04:39 < nuba> whats and where is the sub to collect all child assets of a given asset ?
04:40 < nuba> or should I use the lineage manually do achieve that?
04:40 < nuba> err, add a please on top of these questions.. :)
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04:44 < nuba> oh just found AssetLineage.pm, looks like it
04:44 < nuba> i love find+grep :)
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09:07 <@rizen> nuba, i don't see a checkin
09:08 < nuba> thats accurate
09:08 < nuba> its not ready :/
09:08 < nuba> this is how it is now: http://hq.imaterial.org/home/test/test-locator
09:09 <@rizen> which is what?
09:09 <@rizen> i just see a map
09:09 < nuba> let me pm you a login ..
09:09 <@rizen> no other functionality
09:11 <@rizen> i definitely see a map asset, but i don't see any other functinoality  other than base level google map
09:12 < nuba> ok let me give you a quick tour then
09:12 <@rizen> oh wait
09:12 <@rizen> now i see something
09:12 < nuba> we have the WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Locator, and the WebGUI::Asset::LocatorMarker
09:13 <@rizen> you shouldn't put all that stuff into a google bubble
09:13 <@rizen> it's pretty much unusable
09:13 < nuba> yeah well thats your spec
09:13 < nuba> i was going to discuss this with you
09:13 <@rizen> no, the output
09:13 <@rizen> not the input
09:14 < nuba> so, at the moment there are three things to note there
09:14 < nuba> 1 - the blue markers, this is a geocoded feed from flickr
09:14 <@rizen> hmmm. i'm missing something
09:14 < nuba> 2 - chicago's loop, thats a kml too
09:15 <@rizen> i don't see any blue markers
09:15 < nuba> blue markers in the US
09:15 <@rizen> yeah, i just see a map
09:15 < nuba> and 3- the red markers around the world
09:15 <@rizen> and that's it
09:15 < nuba> the red ones are Asset::LocatorMarkers
09:16 <@rizen> ah, that's the problem
09:16 <@rizen> it doesn't work in safari
09:16 <@rizen> works in firefox
09:16 < nuba> ah, great
09:16 < nuba> good way to start..
09:16 < nuba> i tried IE and it was working until a bit ago
09:16 <@rizen> the edit screen shows up if you click anywhere on the map in safari
09:17 < nuba> but im mostly on firefox & misc extensions atm
09:17 <@rizen> but no markers
09:17 < nuba> red markers ? check africa etc..
09:17 < nuba> or blue ones ? you should see'em
09:17 <@rizen> in firefox i see both
09:17 < nuba> are you logged in or just visitor?
09:17 <@rizen> in safari i see just the map
09:18 <@rizen> logged in
09:19 < nuba> now whats sucking me in is the ajax
09:19 < nuba> specially with that tiny little form :)
09:19 <@rizen> where we stand now though i don't see how you could be done with a stable product even if i gave you another day to finish
09:20 <@rizen> the chicago trains thing is pretty cool
09:21 < nuba> heh if you knew where I was this morning..
09:21 < nuba> in terms of progress.
09:21 <@rizen> i do know where you were, basically not even started
09:21 <@rizen> remember, we talked this morning
09:21 <@rizen> you've made amazing progress...i'll give you that
09:22 < nuba> but yeah i wasn't expeting to drag me feet this way with the ajax part
09:22 < nuba> I would really love to push this into 2.4, but I can see where you stand too
09:22 <@rizen> i'm going to have to spend some time testing the rest of 7.4 tomorrow
09:22 < nuba> so I won't enjoy it but I can cope with this not entering this release if you think thats better.
09:22 <@rizen> you have until i'm done testing to show me how far you can get
09:23 <@rizen> sunday i'm releasing though
09:23 < nuba> thats amazing
09:23 <@rizen> provided my tests are finished on saturday
09:23 <@rizen> what's amazing
09:23 < nuba> i think there'sa good ground between me and saturday's end
09:24 < nuba> so maybe it'll be ok by then. who knows, maybe I'll even write some tests ;)
09:24 <@rizen> i'm not saying you should check this in. i'll need to be shown that it's robust enough to go into the core
09:24 < nuba> of course Im not intending to check it in
09:24 <@rizen> but i'm giving you a bit of time
09:24 < nuba> not without your blessing
09:25 <@rizen> my hope is to be done testing by 3pm central today (saturday)
09:25 < nuba> i see
09:25 < nuba> okay dokey
09:25 <@rizen> so you have until then to show me what you can show me
09:26 <@rizen> that gives you a little over 12 hours
09:26 <@rizen> 13.5 i guess
09:26 <@rizen> and i assume you're going to sleep in there somewhere
09:27 < nuba> not quite
09:27 < nuba> i've slept two hours already between yesterday and today :)
09:27 <@rizen> anyway, i'm going to get some sleep now. have lots of testing to do when i wake up
09:27 -!- rizen is now known as rizenisaway
09:28 < nuba> ok, ttyl, enjoy :)
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16:21 < nuba> rizenisaway: looks like i will have to work on this asset for 7.5 :(
16:21 < nuba> it turns out i had some family thing scheduled for today
16:21 < nuba> as I was -not so- friendly reminded by my wife this morning..
16:21 < nuba> huh
16:22 < nuba> well, actually i think that will be for the greater good
16:22 < nuba> cause then I will get to build the asset like im envisioning it
16:22 < nuba> give it the proper love
16:23 < nuba> instead of turning out some rushed out thing that would most likely be heavily modified afterwards
16:25 < nuba> also, this way I will have the chance to ask here for more best-practices or hints re: doing things with the WebGUI API
16:25 < nuba> so, well, thats it!
16:26 < nuba> i think this way this will be a better asset, which will integrate smoothly into webgui and really kick ass :) 
16:32 < nuba> in the end I hope you'll still be excited about it and think spontaneously about sending me some cash reward :D
16:33 < nuba> as obviously the spec will be but a small subset of the features we'll have on it
16:33 < nuba> alright gotta split, bback by the end of the day
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--- Day changed Sun Jul 29 2007
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00:02 < danny_mk> Hi everyone, anyone here have experience debugging at the API level?
00:03 < nuba> danny_mk: you can enable debugging output to the logs at the /data/WebGUI/etc/log.conf file
00:04 < nuba> replace "log4perl.logger = WARN, mainlog" with "log4perl.logger = DEBUG, mainlog"
00:05 <@rizenisaway> i have some experience with that
00:05 <@rizenisaway> =)
00:05 < nuba> otherwise I've been using Data::Dumper too
00:05 <@rizenisaway> i'm not really here...leaving for the rest of the day in about 2 minutes
00:05 < nuba> would love to learn more debugging technique
00:05 < nuba> for webgui
00:06 < nuba> i really miss using things like ddd 
00:09 <@rizenisaway> don't know what ddd is
00:09 <@rizenisaway> but debugging is best done by putting info message in
00:09 <@rizenisaway> my $error = $session->errorHandler;
00:09 <@rizenisaway> $error->info("executing this function")
00:09 <@rizenisaway> $error->info("now doing this");
00:10 <@rizenisaway> $error->info("got to this point");
00:10 <@rizenisaway> and then setting your log level at "INFO"
00:10 <@rizenisaway> that way you can leave your debug code in even in production environments
00:10 <@rizenisaway> if you truely are outputting debug data though
00:10 <@rizenisaway> then you should use the debug method
00:11 < nuba> i think i've heard about changing debug level during runtime with log4perl
00:11 < danny_mk> I just trying adding a Wiki to a couple of the sites that I maintain and I get a sql error
00:11 < danny_mk> however when I run the same query from the log on the sql prompt it works perfect
00:11 <@rizenisaway> $error->debug("Output of array X: ".Data::Dumper::Dumper(\@array));
00:11 < nuba> or turning it on just for a specific package too
00:11 < nuba> rizenisaway: is there any runtime debugging tool for webgui ?
00:12 <@rizenisaway> oh, in that case you want to actually turn on DEBUG mode
00:12 <@rizenisaway> yes
00:12 < danny_mk> ok, let me try that
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00:12 <@rizenisaway> go into Admin Console > Settings > Misc
00:12 <@rizenisaway> and turn on "Show Debugging"
00:12 < nuba> that is the debug info at the bottom of the page, right?
00:12 <@rizenisaway> if it's on a production site you can also specify your ip address in CIDR notation and then only you'll see the debug
00:13 <@rizenisaway> yeah
00:13 < nuba> i mean with 'next', 'step into', etc.
00:13 <@rizenisaway> 10.0.0.1/32
00:13 <@rizenisaway> no
00:13 <@rizenisaway> you can't really do that on the web
00:13 <@rizenisaway> that works well in event driven programming
00:13 <@rizenisaway> like desktop apps
00:13 <@rizenisaway> but it's not so good for stateless linear programming like the web
00:14 < danny_mk> darnit!!!
00:14 < danny_mk> WebGUI::Session::ErrorHandler::fatal[208] - Stack trace for FATAL Couldn't execute prepared statement: select asset.assetId, revisionDate from assetData left join asset on assetData.assetId=asset.assetId where
00:14 < danny_mk>         lineage like ? and lineage<>? and status='approved' order by revisionDate desc limit ? : With place holders: 000001000002000017%, 000001000002000017, 10.  Root cause: You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near ''10'' at line 2
00:14 < nuba> rizenisaway: well i think i vaguely remember seeing something about doing that before
00:15 < nuba> it was something about debugging remotely
00:16 < nuba> using ptkdb iirc
00:17 < nuba> this was it: http://perl.apache.org/docs/1.0/guide/debug.html#Interactive_mod_perl_Debugging
00:17 <@rizenisaway> i don't see any errors in what you're showing danny_mk
00:18 < nuba> and http://perl.apache.org/docs/1.0/guide/debug.html#ptkdb_and_Interactive_mod_perl_Debugging specifically re:ptkdb
00:18 <@rizenisaway> perhaps you have a corrupt database table or something
00:18 <@rizenisaway> cd /path/to/mysql/databases
00:18 <@rizenisaway> shutdown mysql
00:18 <@rizenisaway> myisamchk -r *.MYI
00:18 <01:05 -!- wgGuest13 [n=wgGuest7@208.255.24.131] has joined #webgui
01:05 < wgGuest13> yo
01:06 < wgGuest13> what network is this? I normaly use a different IRC client
01:06 < wgGuest13> oh freenode
01:06 < wgGuest13> cool
01:06 < wgGuest13> brb
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02:10 < danny_mk> GotIT!
02:10 < danny_mk> I had an earlier version of DBD::mysql
02:16 < danny_mk> later...
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05:35 < nuba> here is the link to the graphical remote mod_perl runtime debugging http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/perl-modperl/200307.mbox/%3CPine.LNX.4.33.0307231255130.22147-300000@sharkey.morinda.com%3E
05:36 < nuba> a nice article on that too, here http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2006/02/09/debug_mod_perl.html?page=1
05:41 < nuba> now, if you drop the 'graphical remote' part there's no need to patch anything
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18:12 <+MrHairgrease> does anybody know the url of the 7.3.x stable svn repo?
18:13 -!- rizenisaway is now known as rizen
18:13 <@rizen> yup
18:13 <@rizen> https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/branch/WebGUI_7.3
18:14 <@rizen> that will be $100 please
18:14 <+MrHairgrease> sorry
18:14 <+MrHairgrease> i don't hand out petty cash
18:14 <@rizen> sorry for what?
18:14 <@rizen> hehe
18:15 <+MrHairgrease> thanks
18:15 <@rizen> sorry, that was a typo on my part
18:15 <@rizen> it was supposed to be $100bn
18:15 <+MrHairgrease> ah
18:15 <+MrHairgrease> like i said
18:15 <+MrHairgrease> i meant pretty cash
18:15 <+MrHairgrease> =)
18:15 <@rizen> you are aware that there are no more 7.3 releases, right?
18:15 <+MrHairgrease> yes i am
18:15 <@rizen> k
18:16 <+MrHairgrease> oh
18:16 <+MrHairgrease> i wasnt come to think of it
18:16 <@rizen> just didn't want you to do a bunch of work and then find out that it would never be released
18:16 <+MrHairgrease> i though .4 bugfixes were backp[oterd
18:16 <@rizen> 7.4.0 comes out tomorrow
18:16 <+MrHairgrease> anyway
18:16 <+MrHairgrease> i needed it for reference only
18:17 <@rizen> if you ever need to find out what's in the repo
18:17 <@rizen> you can browse it directly here https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/
18:17 <@rizen> or with a pretty interface here: https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack
18:17 <+MrHairgrease> hey thanks
18:18 <+MrHairgrease> that's convenient
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19:23 < WebGUI> hello :)
19:23 <+MrHairgrease> hi
19:23 < WebGUI> nice :)
19:24 <+MrHairgrease> hi koen
19:24 < WebGUI> hi martin
19:24 <+MrHairgrease> =)
19:24 < WebGUI> is mr rizen also here?
19:24 <@rizen> yes
19:24 <@rizen> long time no talk man
19:24 <@rizen> welcome
19:24 < WebGUI> thanks
19:25 < WebGUI> I'm putting new energy into getting webgui to run smootly on our servers recently
19:25 < WebGUI> I overheared someone speaking about a new wre
19:26 <@rizen> indeed
19:26 < WebGUI> what is the news?
19:26 <@rizen> i'm working on a new wre
19:26 <@rizen> the two main new features include
19:27 <@rizen> a completely rebuilt API that can be tied into a provisioning systemm
19:27 <@rizen> and a web based interface for managing the WRE, which also uses the new API
19:27 < WebGUI> cool
19:27 <@rizen> in addition, many updated modules, and tweaks suggested by users
19:28 < WebGUI> should I wait for that?
19:28 <@rizen> depends on what kind of a rush you're in
19:28 <@rizen> it should be out in the next few weeks
19:28 <@rizen> before the end of august for sure
19:28 <@rizen> so if you need it now, then don't wait
19:28 <@rizen> but if you can wait 2-4 weeks then yes you should
19:30 < WebGUI> ok 
19:30 < WebGUI> I will wait then
19:31 < WebGUI> and put my efforts into virtualisation of the os instead of getting the wre to run smootly on ubuntu lts
19:31 <@rizen> in the next week or so i'm going to need help with testing and whatnot, should i give you holler?
19:31 <@rizen> ubuntu is one of the OS's I plan to support natively for the WRE going forward
19:32 <@rizen> RHEL, Ubuntu, OSX, FreeBSD, and Windows
19:32 < WebGUI> sure
19:32 < WebGUI> I can help out in the testing of it
19:33 <@rizen> i guess is should mention the one other big feature that no one knows about yet except my staff
19:33 < WebGUI> what version of freebsd would you want to support?
19:33 <@rizen> there will be two versions of the WRE
19:33 <@rizen> WRE and WDK
19:33 < WebGUI> ah
19:33 < WebGUI> wdk?
19:33 <@rizen> WDK will have development tools built into it like subversion, api browser, etc
19:33 < WebGUI> ah
19:34 < WebGUI> the special developers edition of the wre
19:34 <@rizen> indeed
19:34 <@rizen> WDK = WebGUI Developers Kit
19:34 < WebGUI> nice
19:35 <@rizen> 6.2
19:35 <@rizen> for freebsd
19:35 < WebGUI> will the wre contain cluster availability stuff?
19:35 < WebGUI> ah ok
19:35 <@rizen> no, that's for WRE 0.9
19:35 < WebGUI> ok
19:35 < WebGUI> who is doing the development on wre? just you?
19:36 <@rizen> yup, that's why it's going so slowly
19:36 < WebGUI> ah
19:36 < WebGUI> give me a call when you've got something worthy enough to test
19:36 <@rizen> will do
19:36 < WebGUI> I'll run it trough freebsd ubuntu and windows
19:36 <@rizen> thanks for volunteering
19:37 < WebGUI> it's about time 
19:37 < WebGUI> i've been too busy running a business for the last 8 months
19:38 < WebGUI> that and rebuilding a house and getting married of course :)
19:38 <@rizen> holy crap, you got married?
19:38 <@rizen> i didn't know that
19:38 <@rizen> MrHairGrease...how could you not keep me informed?
19:38 < WebGUI> I sure did
19:39 <@rizen> congrats
19:39 < WebGUI> thanks
19:39 <+MrHairgrease> i was probably drunk =)
19:39 < WebGUI> hehe
19:39 <+MrHairgrease> but that was Koen's fault as usual
19:39 <@rizen> if i had been invited, i would have flown over just for that
19:39 <+MrHairgrease> =)
19:39 < WebGUI> i bet you would :)
19:40 < WebGUI> I have to walk the dog, be back in 15 ok
19:40 <@rizen> ok, i have to get back to 7.4 testing
19:40 < WebGUI> ~
19:40 <+MrHairgrease> later
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20:14 < WebGU1> re
20:26 < WebGU1> the vrbsky softball team
20:26 < WebGU1> is what my eye sees
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20:34 < WebGU1> huh
--- Day changed Mon Jul 30 2007
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00:23 < SynQ> hello again
00:23 <@rizen> howdy
00:24 < SynQ> I'm working on getting ubuntu installed on my home-desktop
00:24 < SynQ> putting vmware server on there
00:25 < SynQ> then I will put ubuntu 6.06 lts server on vmware
00:25 <@rizen> you're getting the latest version right?
00:25 < SynQ> and then wre on that
00:25 < SynQ> :)
00:25 < SynQ> 0.7.2
00:25 < SynQ> wre
00:26 < SynQ> one of the first things I've noticed are: I need a new home-desktop computer
00:27 < SynQ> and second: I need loads and loads of ram
00:27 < SynQ> :)
00:27 <@rizen> webgui pretty much requires 1GB of ram these days
00:27 <@rizen> you can get away with less, but you need to configure the WRE differently
00:27 < SynQ> I was thinking more along the lines of 12Gb ram
00:27 <@rizen> 7.4 reduces the amount of ram used by 5MB per process
00:28 < SynQ> for the entire workstation
00:28 <@rizen> oh
00:28 <@rizen> yeah for sure
00:28 < SynQ> and about 4Gb per virtual machine
00:28 <@rizen> if you're running vm's on it
00:28 < SynQ> running 3 of them in parralel
00:28 < SynQ> parrrralllllelll
00:29 < SynQ> I'm also looking at blade servers for use in our data-center
00:29 <@rizen> i hate blades
00:29 <@rizen> always underpowered
00:29 < SynQ> 4 times quad core processor per blade?
00:29 <@rizen> does your datacenter charge you by the U?
00:29 < SynQ> that is not underpowered
00:29 < SynQ> nope
00:30 < SynQ> by power and bandwith
00:30 < SynQ> you sort of get rackspace for free
00:30 <@rizen> ok, well i should say then that every blade i've had access to from our clients has been a big pile of shit
00:30 < SynQ> but it's not for the consolidation on price that I want blade servers
00:30 < SynQ> I want them for ease of administration
00:31 < SynQ> 2 chassis with each 10 or so blades in them
00:31 < SynQ> but I'm still calculating
00:31 < SynQ> scale is everything with them blades
00:33 < SynQ> what kind of hardware does plainblack use these days?
00:33 < SynQ> we use mostly opteron supermicro servers
00:34 < SynQ> with sata disks
00:36 <@rizen> we use dual xeons with dual cores
00:36 <@rizen> and scsi disks
00:36 <@rizen> although we're starting to experiment with sata disks
00:37 < SynQ> no unattached storage?
00:37 <@rizen> we don't get charged for space either, so instead of using rack mounted hardware (which is more expensive), we just use tower boxes, which we can buy real cheap
00:37 <@rizen> no NAS
00:37 <@rizen> well i shouldn't say that
00:37 <@rizen> we use NAS in our clusters
00:37 <@rizen> but not as a general rule on all storage
00:38 < SynQ> ah
00:38 < SynQ> tower boxes seem to get you a lot of clutter
00:38 < SynQ> but well, they are cheap
00:38 <@rizen> they do, but our data center has tons of free space
00:39 <@rizen> racks and rails and rack mounted cases are expensive comparatively
00:39 <@rizen> and basically for no reason
00:39 < SynQ> that is true
00:40 < SynQ> well, the reason is that there are no millions of servers produced
00:40 <@rizen> i think the reason is they know only business uses them, and so they soak the businesses for as much as they can
00:41 < SynQ> that could also be true
01:38 < SynQ> ok, time for bed
01:38 < SynQ> ~
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01:41 <@rizen> bye SynQ
01:41 < SynQ> later
01:41 < SynQ> I'll be awaiting your 'look at this' call
01:41 <@rizen> you shall have it asap
01:41 < SynQ> :)
01:41 < SynQ> ~
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01:56 <+crythias> does anyone play risk?
01:57 <@rizen> i do
01:58 <+crythias> I host a java risk game once in a while.
01:58 <+crythias> I mean, it's more of a pick=up game than a scheduled event.
02:00 <+crythias> http://jrisk.sourceforge.net/
02:00 <+crythias> probably one of the best versions I've played
02:00 <@rizen> i play iconquer a lot
02:01 <@rizen> http://www.kavasoft.com/iConquer/index.php
02:01 <@rizen> well i shouldn't say a lot
02:01 <@rizen> i should say whenever i play risk
02:02 <@rizen> i don't have a lot of time to play games these days
02:02 <@rizen> summers are very busy for me
02:03 <@rizen> i'd love to play you in risk sometime
02:03 <+crythias> np.
02:04 <+crythias> I'm currently playing said version atm. 
02:04 <+crythias> game runs about <10 minutes.
02:05 <@rizen> i'm testing for 7.4 at the moment
02:05 <@rizen> and my computer is running so slow i can barely load a web page
02:06 <+crythias> is there any way that WRE doesn't have to expand to almost 400MB?
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02:06 <@rizen> it doesn't have any non-essentials
02:07 <@rizen> however, i'm adding a build option in to WRE 0.8 for
02:07 <@rizen> WDK
02:07 <@rizen> WRE will be just what you need to run WebGUI
02:07 <@rizen> and WDK will include development tools
02:08 <@rizen> that way we can try to streamline WRE as much as possible for runtime
02:08  * SDuensin cheers for rizen 
02:08 <+crythias> As I had mentioned previously, I had purchased a bunch of 512MB SD cards from woot.
02:08 <@rizen> my thought is that it can remove things like the api browser, documentation, and so forth
02:09 <@rizen> what is a bunch?
02:09 <+crythias> well, it was a 2fer, so 3x2=6
02:09 <+crythias> not "bunch" but certainly more than one.
02:10 <@rizen> i thought maybe you meant like an overstock sale or a discontinued sale
02:10 <@rizen> so you bought 1000 of them
02:10 <@rizen> or something
02:10 <+crythias> but the thing is, these have built-in USB. Ostensibly, it means this card could possibly boot
02:11 <@rizen> well if you get a tiny linux distro
02:11 <@rizen> you might be able to do
02:11 <@rizen> it
02:11 <+crythias> yeah, it's gotta be super tiny. 
02:12 <+crythias> but I need to start with a recent kernel.
02:14 <+crythias> http://code.google.com/p/ubuntutrinux/
02:14 <+crythias> this might be a good start
02:35 <@rizen> i have now conducted two full days of testing on 7.4 and believe it's ready for the beta cycle
02:39 <+crythias> :)
02:57 < nuba> cool
02:57 < nuba> rizen: how's the schedule ahead, after 7.4.0 ?
03:11 <@rizen> there is no schedule beyond 7.4 
03:11 <@rizen> per our new stability program
03:11 <@rizen> we don't branch for the next release until the current release has an empty bug list
03:25 < nuba> ok
03:27 < nuba> i was reading the backlog, cool about the wdk
03:27 <@rizen> we'll see if it's cool or not.
03:27 <@rizen> i'm hoping so
03:27 < nuba> well it sounds cool at least
03:27 <@rizen> but you never know
03:28 <@rizen> people may get pissed that there are two seperate types of wres
03:28 < nuba> well wont it be just like an add-on to the wre ?
03:29 <@rizen> no, it will be two separate distributions
03:29 <@rizen> from the wre source you decide whether or not you want the wdk tools at build time
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03:41 <@rizen> anybody got some free time to play with a cool new feature?
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04:50 -!- rizen changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.0 | WRE 0.7.2 ] .:. Come To The WUC http://www.plainblack.com/wuc .:. Feel free to ask questions on here - but make sure you stick around long enough for us to answer! :)
04:50 <@rizen> 7.4.0 has been unleashed upon the world
04:50 <@rizen> all hail it's brilliance 
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08:52 < elnino> hello?
08:54 < elnino> I just upgraded to the newest and greatest webgui , and have a question about the new improved calendar.
08:54 <@rizen> what newest. 7.3.22 or 7.4.0?
08:55 < elnino> 7.3.22
08:55 < elnino> I was just hoping for a way to provide our users a list of events. 
08:56 < elnino> I modified the monthly view default to list the events, but I don't know how to get the event's past the "current month"
08:57 < elnino> sorry, I just want to list ALL the events in the calendar. but it only seems to list the current month's events. Hopeufally that makes more sense.
08:57 <@rizen> the 7.3 calendar does not have a list view
08:57 <@rizen> it's on the feature request list
08:58 < elnino> I just found http://www.webgui.org/user_contributions/user_contributions/packages/calendar-event-list-for-7.3.11
08:58 < elnino> I'm wondering if that will work.
08:58 <@rizen> no idea
08:58 < elnino> the file exentions is wqpkg  does that mean anything to you?
08:59 <@rizen> yes, that's a webgui package
08:59 <@rizen> you import it through the asset manager
09:00 < elnino> hmm. ok. is that something new? I dont' recall anything called that.
09:00 <@rizen> been in there since 6.8
09:01 < elnino> oh. I'll see what I can do with it. I guess I haven't done this before.
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09:14 < elnino> hello
09:14 < elnino> I just imported that package I just found when I was talking with rizen, and my home page doesn't display anymore.
09:15 <@rizen> did you import it on your homepage?
09:15 < elnino> no. that's the weird thing.
09:15 <@rizen> does your homepage have a calendar?
09:15 < elnino> Well, at least I don't think I did.
09:15 < elnino> no. the home page doesn't have a calendar.
09:16 <@rizen> no idea then
09:16 <@rizen> go rollback the package
09:16 <@rizen> example.com?op=adminConsole
09:16 < elnino> whew Glad to know I can do that. 
09:17 < elnino> it's weird, I went to assets and my home page exists with all of it's stuff (in the asset tree), but it just doesn't display. weird. I'll go roll back now....
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09:20 < elnino_> Thanks rizen, my home page is back. weird, just weird. I've had enough fun now. 
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12:58 < Radix-laptop> Greetings from Holland :)
13:10 < AMH_bob> :P Aussie infiltration alert!
13:10 < AMH_bob> Boy, did you bring bad weather!
13:11 < Radix-laptop> oi!  I brought good weather!
13:12 < Radix-laptop> Was sunny in London when I arrived at Heathrow.. they were all raving about how it finally looked like summer had arrived.  And it's been nice so far here in Delft.. was a little rain this morning, but should be a nice week :)
13:17 < AMH_bob> Ok, I'll hold you to that! Have a great vacation!
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16:09 < AMH_bob> Goodmorning
16:10 < AMH_bob> Hurried for nothing, turns out you entered the room 19 min ago!
16:22 < SDuensin> Hehehe
16:22 < SDuensin> Greetings!
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18:06  * SDuensin screams at the WRE again
18:07 < SDuensin>  2290 nobody    25   0 74320  60m 2816 R 33.3  6.1  10:36.23 httpd                                                      
18:07 < SDuensin>  2666 nobody    25   0 75076  61m 2836 R 33.3  6.2   0:57.38 httpd                                                      
18:07 < SDuensin>  2675 nobody    25   0 74416  60m 2832 R 33.3  6.1   4:04.86 httpd  
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18:29 <@rizen> so radix, what are you doing in delft? i thought you were hanging out with the folks from UnitedKnowledge
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18:56 < SDuensin> rizen, any idea where I should even begin to look to see why my httpds are running away on me?  I'm using FC4, stock WRE, stock WebGUI.  Pretty standard setup.
18:56 <@rizen> nope
18:56 < SDuensin> I even tried to kick it.
18:57 < SDuensin> How can WebGUI hate it's #1 fan so much?
18:58 <@rizen> are you looking in the logs?
18:58 <@rizen> how often are processes being killed?
18:58 <@rizen> are you still running the runaway monitor?
18:58 <@rizen> if so, how often are you getting runways?
18:58 < SDuensin> Runaway thing doesn't work on FC4 and I've not had time to fix it.
18:59 <@rizen> FC4 btw is not a standard setup
18:59 <@rizen> FC4 is very old
18:59 < SDuensin> Yea, but it's as close as I could get.
19:00 < SDuensin> Looks like Apache2::SizeLimit is killing things on occasion.
19:00 <@rizen> it should be killing them on occasion
19:00 < SDuensin> Yea.
19:00 <@rizen> the question is how often
19:00 <@rizen> how many requests
19:00 <@rizen> second, you need to get the runaway monitor working so you can see how often you have runaways
19:01 <@rizen> that may give some indication of why they are happening
19:01 < SDuensin> Oh, here's a possible lead...  The last entries in modproxy's error log are connection attempts from the WebGUI HTTP Proxy asset.
19:01 <@rizen> i was just going to say
19:01 <@rizen> there have been reports of the HTTP Proxy causing runaways
19:02 <@rizen> i've never been able to reproduce, but i've heard it before
19:02 < SDuensin> Ah, ok.  I'd bet that's the culprit.  It's used on one of my more popular sites.
19:02 <@rizen> instead of using an HTTP proxy, try using an <iframe> in a snippet
19:03 < SDuensin> I'll suggest that.
19:03 < SDuensin> The responsible party is in the next office over from me.  :-)
19:04 < SDuensin> Oh, and she bought the book.  It's nice!  I want one for me now.  I can put it on my shelf next to Gui (who I also need to buy).
19:05 <@rizen> the next book in the series was finished last week
19:05 <@rizen> it's in editing now
19:05 < SDuensin> Oh!?
19:05 < SDuensin> What's it cover?
19:05 <@rizen> it's about design topics, templating, navigation, etc
19:05 < SDuensin> Excellent.
19:05 < SDuensin> You guys are kickin' ass.
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--- Day changed Tue Jul 31 2007
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00:56 <@preaction> is there a way we can detect if an asset gets corrupted and deal with it automatically? apparently i've got about a dozen version tags trying to commit assets that are missing data
00:57 <@rizen> yup you can automatically log yourself in to mysql, and automatically type your username and password, and automatically manually massage the data
00:57 <@rizen> =)
00:59 <@preaction> good thing we're both on the same page
00:59 <@rizen> the problem with corruption is the API doesn' tknow how to deal with it
00:59 <@rizen> that's why it's corrupt
01:00 <@rizen> so there's no way for us to fix that without adding some functionality to do that, and at that point why not just deal with the corruption rather than deleting it
01:00 <@preaction> i think that mysql is rather vocal about failures, buried in the logs somewhere i imagine is the exact problem
01:01 <@preaction> and we're running with RaiseError => 0; why do DBI/mysql problems still cause fatals?
01:02 <@preaction> weird...
01:05 <@rizen> because you're a threadjacker
01:06 <@preaction> karma is a cruel mistress indeed
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01:30 < SDuensin> Hello!
02:30 <@preaction> rizen, you wouldn't happen to know if the new password recovery feature for 7.4 only works with the WebGUI authType? it seems like it should work with any authType (as long as hooks are written correctly)
02:31 <@preaction> i've got a problem where it looks for the correct authType, but my authType is "otherauthtype" it just inherits everything from Auth/WebGUI
02:32 <@preaction> better yet: i should make a getType method that gets the value that should be in the authType field, and use that instead of hard-coded stuff
02:38 <@preaction> nevermind, that seems to be what the authMethod() sub is for. 
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05:14 <+crythias> hrm
05:15 <@preaction> i need to get more commits than drake and steve so i can feel better about myself. should i just commit random changes to the changelog?
05:15 <@preaction> i need 27 more commits
05:15 <+crythias> I don't think people realize the importance of the idea of css rollovers.
05:15 <@preaction> http://www.ohloh.net/projects/103/analyses/latest/contributors
05:15 <+crythias> sure, people can do cool things like this... http://yellatducks.com/css-rollovers-simplified
05:16 <@preaction> always love the moving background rollover
05:16 <+crythias> but I was thinking... why not have some jointed puppet point at (or eyes looking at) the selection.
05:17 <+crythias> then again, I was thinking why does this have to be limited to menu items.
05:17 <+crythias> Like, you know those things called "Fashion Plates" back in the day?
05:18 <+crythias> you could put different blouses, skirts, legs, whatever under a piece of paper and rub colored pencils on it to get the whole outfit like a charcoal rubbing.
05:19 <+crythias> well, the point is ... um somewhere. like, um. images of people that could change torsoes or heads by hovering over them. yeah.
05:20 <@preaction> sounds more like flash, you could so some very fun things that way
05:20 <@preaction> or SVG + javascript
05:20 <+crythias> somewhere, in the vast reaches of space, a star just went nova ... and then collapsed into itself.
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05:23 <+crythias> awe. 
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05:49 < crythia2> hrm
05:50 < crythia2> /recover crythia1
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05:52 < crythia2> freakin doppelganger
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06:01 < crythia2> hrm.
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06:30 <@rizen> i need to commit 1000 more times to be inline with colin
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07:01 < crythia2> btw doesn't change to userprofiledata table= api change?
07:07 <@rizen> no, the api is the same
07:07 <@rizen> the database is different
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15:46 < SDuensin> Greetings.
16:03 < xootom> hi sduensin
16:07 < SDuensin> Hey xootom 
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17:19 < xootom> has anyone here used the adduser.pl script?
17:21 <@rizen> yup
17:25 < xootom> is it possible to call it by url? i'm wondering if it's a solution to my problem, i need to add users to a company, where the company is from an external database, so I can use an SQL Report to create the url for adduser.pl...? and set the user profile field workName from that
17:26 < Radix-europe> I have written a url version of it
17:27 < xootom> or is there another way of setting a user profile field for an existing user from a query
17:27 < Radix-europe> it's in the contribs section I think
17:27 < xootom> i think i found it, but didn't know where to install it in the filesystem so it's accessible through the browser, without webgui trying to parse the url
17:27 < Radix-europe> Are you using the wre?
17:27 < xootom> yep
17:28 < Radix-europe> then you can use the cgi-bin directory
17:28 < xootom> ah that makes sense
17:28 < xootom> thanks
17:28 < Radix-europe> in /data/wre/prereqs/apache/cgi-bin
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17:28 < AMH_bob> perlbot math 1 + 1
17:28 < perlbot> 2
17:29 < Radix-europe> except in extreme values of 1
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17:29 < AMH_bob> :P
17:31 < xootom> webgui returns a page not found error when i try /cgi-bin/adduser.pl, after putting the file there
17:36 < Radix-europe> got execute permissions?
17:36 < xootom> yeah
17:37 < Radix-europe> Hmm.. not sure what else it might be
17:37 < Radix-europe> check your apache configs - maybe the cgi-bin bit isn't enabled?
17:38 < Radix-europe> there's a wiki page I wrote to tell you how to allow paths to drop through in webgui too if you get stuck
17:38 < xootom> yeah it seems to be, script alias etc all looks fine
17:38 < xootom> ahh that'll help, i'll have a look thanks
17:39 < Radix-europe> http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/how-to-get-passthruurls-to-work
17:40 < Radix-europe> Well I'm off - so good luck with it! :)
17:40 < xootom> thanks :)
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17:44 < elnino> hello?
17:45 < elnino> Good morning... I was wondering how you can unarchive items from a collarboration system. SQL is acceptable.
17:45 < elnino> running 7.3.22
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17:54 < elnino> does a user have to have certain permissions to see the items she archived in a collaboration system? When I'm logged in as here, I don't see them in the asset tree.
17:58 <@rizen> archived threads are only available via searching
17:58 <@rizen> you can unarchive a thread by searching for it, and then clicking the unarchive link on the thread
18:00 < elnino> we tried that, but non of them came up.. I'll try it again.
18:01 < elnino> are you here all the time rizen?
18:02 <@rizen> no not all the time
18:02 <@rizen> just most of the time
18:02 < elnino> well, thanks for all your help. I'll give the search thing a try again. bye
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18:05 < elnino> hi rizen.  nope, searching doesn't help.  Do you know what that search is searching? Actually, I should have been a little more specific. I'm talking about the job posting collaboration system
18:06 <@rizen> it doesn't matter what collaboration system
18:06 < elnino> the two jobs I know that are archived are both engineers, and searching for engineer didn't come up with any. Is there a place in the assets area to view them?
18:06 <@rizen> if they aren't coming up, then they aren't archived, they are deleted
18:06 < elnino> nope, I watched her do it. And we immediately searched for them.
18:06 <@rizen> if you look in the asset manager you can see all threads archived or not
18:06 <@rizen> if they aren't there then they don't exist
18:07 < elnino> then there is a bug... but I'll look again to make sure. I'll check the trash too. bye.
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18:11 < elnino> hi rizen. We're both right.
18:11 < elnino> If I search in the asset tree, they come up
18:12 < elnino> but if I click on the thread I want, it goes to the location that it is, but doesn't show up.
18:12 < elnino> and from the webgui front end, the search doesn't display them either.
18:12 < elnino> so they do exist, but aren't showing up.
18:13 < elnino> hopefully that makes sense. 
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18:20 < xootom> online help table of contents has vanished from my site, 7.4.0 bug?
18:21 <@rizen> no
18:21 <@rizen> did you read the new help
18:21 <@rizen> the very top of the page
18:21 < SDuensin> WHOA!  WAIT!  7.4.0?!  When did that happen?!
18:21 <@rizen> sunday night
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18:21  * SDuensin smacks his head
18:22 < SDuensin> I read the topic several times a day to keep current.  Talk about asleep at the wheel!
18:25 < elnino> is there a way I run a query to get my archived items back to display for content managers and within the asset tree (via manage) The only place they show up is asset search. hohpefauly that makes sense.
18:26 <@rizen> SD, you should subscribe to the advisories list on getwebgui.com
18:26 < SDuensin> Good idea.  Thanks.
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18:27 < SDuensin> Oh, and our proxy asset that was killing the WRE was trying to pull a page that had disappeared.  Oops.
18:27 < SDuensin> Maybe that'll help track down the problem.
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18:29 < xootom> the top of the help page, says more help in the wiki, is that what you mena
18:29 < xootom> *mean
18:31 < xootom> there's still the view contents link at the edge, to viewhelptoc, which just goes back to the main site
18:45 < SDuensin> Dang rizen - that's quite the update.
18:45 < SDuensin> Do you recommend 7.4 or wait until it's stable?
18:45 <@rizen> stable
18:46 < SDuensin> Is there a schedule for that?  Or is it one of those "when we feel warm and fuzzy"?
18:46  * SDuensin is excited.
19:05 <@rizen> it's when the buglist is clean
19:07 < SDuensin> Makes sense.
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20:16 < wgGuest68> hello - i was wondering if anyone could help me, as when useing addsite to make a site it makes all the files in the /etc direcory and the / instead of /data/WebGUI/etc
20:16 < wgGuest68> does this make any sence to any of you?
20:16 <@preaction> not really. do you mean it put the webgui configuration into /etc instead of /data/WebGUI/etc?
20:17 < wgGuest68> no - its decided to make the files in the /etc direcory - everything else is setup in the /data/WebGUI
20:18 <@preaction> what do you mean by "make the files"?
20:18 < wgGuest68> well - if i run addsite - it gives the following: [peter@ns sbin]$ ./addsite --sitename=217.199.191.178 --admin-db-pass=PASSWORD
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20:19 <@preaction> wgGuest68, you should probably be running addsite as root, unless "peter" has access to /data/domains and /data/WebGUI
20:19 < wgGuest68> i've tried doing the same with root as well as my usename
20:20 < wgGuest68> do you know where webgui sets the varibles for its defult directory?
20:21 <@preaction> what versions of webgui / wre are you running? 
20:22 < wgGuest68> i'm running wre 0.7.2 and the latest webgui - but in the middle of updating my perl modules to cope - as have recently run the upgrade.pl script
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20:24 <@preaction> wgGuest68, do you have /data/wre/lib/Hoster directory?
20:24 < wgGuest68> yes
20:25 < wgGuest68> thanks alot for this!
20:25 < wgGuest68> i've been going round in circles for hours
20:25 <@preaction> i can't seem to find where the webgui-home option is set to a default, so maybe if you add the --webgui-home=/data/WebGUI to your addsite?
20:25 < wgGuest68> ok - will give that a go
20:28 <@preaction> while you're at it, you may have to specify a domain-home=/data/domains as well
20:30 <@preaction> and while you're at it also, you may want to post a bug. i don't know why nobody's noticed this before, or maybe i'm just off my rocker, but i can't see anywhere where the default for those options are set
20:30 <@rizen> check /data/wre/var/hoster.arg.cache
20:31 < wgGuest68> ok - well - addsite has now stoped working
20:31 < wgGuest68> arghhh
20:31 < wgGuest68> i think i need another cup of coffee!!!
20:31 <@preaction> okay, now i see how it all works
20:33 <@rizen> what's a word for when you're talking down to someone
20:33 <@rizen> as in you think that you're smarter than they are
20:33 <@rizen> They are _____ you.
20:33 <@preaction> beneath?
20:33 <@rizen> no
20:33 <@rizen> i'm actually looking for the word that describes it
20:34 <@rizen> it's not sarcasm
20:34 <+MrHairgrease> they are more studist than you
20:34 < wgGuest68> i've been searching everywhere for an answer - i think what i'm going to do is keep ure sugestions in mind then post a message board post when i sort it out!
20:34 <+MrHairgrease> stupidist*
20:34 <@preaction> condescending?
20:34 < wgGuest68> is it patronizing
20:34 <@rizen> there you go
20:34 <@rizen> both of those will work
20:34 <@rizen> thank you
20:37 < wgGuest68> anyway - thanks for your help preaction
20:37 < wgGuest68> see u all soon
20:37 < wgGuest68> bye byue
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20:59 < xootom> hi all, i posted this a while ago on the forum but didnt get a reply, has anyone got any ideas on how i can go about it: a more dynamic group membership? Say 10000 organisations in a database, that is updated through a crm system. Users in WebGui need to be attached to an organisation. I dont think this is really compatible with WebGUI groups (which are more like roles for security etc) ... rather a profile field containing the
21:01 <@rizen> is it in the same database server (even if in separate databases) as webgui?
21:01 < xootom> yep
21:01 <@rizen> then you should be able to to use the Group SQL stuff to map them to WebGUI
21:02 <@rizen> mind you, it involves creating all the groups in WebGUI, but at least the users could be looked up dynamically
21:02 < xootom> isn't the group sql just to authenticate a user to be in a group
21:02 <@rizen> maybe you better explain *exactly* what you're trying to accomplish
21:03 <@rizen> what's the end result
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21:03 < sno> Hello
21:04 <@rizen> howdy
21:04 < xootom> sure, it's for schools, so there is a huge database of schools. the users are teachers and students. They all need to be assigned to their school. The teachers then need to be able to pull SQL reports of their students, but not students in other schools, so only of a matching school id. The schools are all set up in a CRM database, there are 40 thousand or so.. maybe only 1000 schools will ever use it but students need the full
21:05 < sno> Any experience with wre-0.7.2 on SUSE 10.2 x86_64?
21:05 <@rizen> are the students and teachers all in the crm also, or just the schools?
21:06 <@rizen> WRE on 64bit is entirely untested
21:06 < xootom> just the schools, any new user (student) could register into any school, but we would manually assign teachers to a school for security
21:06 <@rizen> not saying it can't work, just that we have no 64bit servers to test on
21:06 < sno> I guess I'm at the bleeding edge then.
21:06 <@preaction> i think SDuensin tried it already and had some problems with mysql
21:06 < xootom> i had bit problems with 64 bit... various things just dont quite work
21:06 < xootom> mainly all the perl modules and their dependencies, or compiling the wre
21:06 <@rizen> yeah but where are the teachers assigned to the schools, in the crm or in webgui?
21:07 < sno> The latest GCC doesn't like a syntax in one of the cpp code blocks.
21:07 < SDuensin> Compiling the WRE on x64 wasn't fun.
21:07 < SDuensin> I ended up using the 32 bit one.
21:07 < sno> perl5.8.8 Configure doesn't know about /lib64 or /usr/lib64
21:07 < sno> I resolved those, but mod_perl is a PITA
21:08 < xootom> rizen: teachers would be assigned in webgui
21:08 <@rizen> xootom, ok that's what i wasn't getting
21:09 <@rizen> in that case what you're going to need to do is write a script that can run as a cron and keep the school data in sync between webgui and your CRM
21:09 <@rizen> the WebGUI side of things is pretty easy since we provide easy to access API's to our group system
21:09 < xootom> would that still be using groups?
21:09 <@rizen> but i don't know if that's true of your CRM
21:09 <@rizen> yes, you should always use groups for grouping users regardless of whether it's just logical groups, or groups for security
21:10 < xootom> would it handle 40k groups?
21:10 <@rizen> the group api is both powerful and fast, so that's your way forward
21:10 <@rizen> easily
21:10 < SDuensin> 40k?  Egads.
21:10 <@rizen> actually, just let me look up how many groups we have on pb.com for example
21:10 <@rizen> i think you'll be stunned
21:11 <@preaction> there are 65,000+ on my current client project
21:11 < xootom> it's sugarcrm so it's a pretty simple mysql structure
21:11 <@rizen> hmmm...less than i thought, but still 13,338
21:11 <@rizen> but we have one client who i know has more than 250,000 groups
21:11 < xootom> wow
21:12 <@preaction> i think i needed to add single-column indexes to the groupings table on userId and groupId to improve performance of some client scripts (which I believe I added to 7.3.20's upgrade script)
21:12 < xootom> one question if they are groups, how would the user choose the correct group, i guess i could use the group add macro and create a search?
21:13 <@rizen> yeah, you can use the groupadd macro
21:13 <@rizen> or you can even create a custom asset that provides more functionality
21:13 < xootom> yeah, thanks
21:14 <@rizen> you know when you click on "subscribe" in a collaboration system, that's actually sticking you in a group
21:14 <@rizen> one group for the cs itself, and then one group for each thread that you subscribe to
21:14 < xootom> ahh i didnt realise, are all those groups hidden from the group manager?
21:14 <@rizen> yes
21:14 <@rizen> groups that are dynamically created by the WebGUI subsystems hide themselves
21:15 <@rizen> groups are your way forward, not the profiling system
21:16 < xootom> great, are there docs for the group api?
21:16 <@rizen> http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds/7.3.22-stable/api/Group.html
21:16 <@preaction> cd /data/WebGUI/lib; perldoc WebGUI::Group
21:17 < xootom> thank you 
21:17 <@rizen> there are also some group related methods in User.pm you want to check out
21:17 <@rizen> http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds/7.3.22-stable/api/User.html
21:17 <@rizen> but most of it is in Group.pm
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21:18 <@rizen> you're welcome
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21:44 <@rizen> doug, remember the hate i had for you yesterday?
21:45 <@rizen> it's gone now. i just used your perl one liners thing to solve a huge problem i was having with the wre build script
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22:23 < sno> risen: are you familiar with recompile with -fPIC errors?
22:25 < sno> The best I can determine, it is requesting that I recompile the perl 5.8.8 with this flag so that mod_perl can use Dynaloader.o
22:25 < sno> GCC 4.1.2
22:26 <@rizen> no idea man
22:26 <@rizen> i'm actually very bad at the whole gcc thing, i just muddle my way through on an error by error basis
22:26 < sno> I suspect you may need to be at some point.
22:26 <@rizen> i don't actually know how to troubleshoot that stuff
22:26 <@rizen> perhaps, but that is not today
22:27 < sno> I'm trying, but the wre build takes about 30 minutes to get to that error for me.
22:27 <@rizen> you know you don't have to build the whole wre all at once, right?
22:27 < sno> 30 seconds to try something else, and 30 minutes to find out if it worked.
22:27 <@rizen> ./build.sh --perl
22:27 <@rizen> ./build.sh --apache
22:27 <@rizen> ./build.sh --mysql
22:28 <@rizen> you can run them individually
22:28 < sno> Ah, I see
22:28 <@rizen> type ./build.sh --help
22:28 <@rizen> for a list of commands
22:29 < sno> By doing that, it doesn't do clean?
22:30 <@rizen> i don't remember if it does or not in 0.7.2 (i've been working with 0.8.0 for so long), but it doesn't matter
22:30 <@rizen> because you already have the binaries for the previous steps
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--- Log closed Wed Aug 01 00:00:33 2007