--- Log opened Thu Jun 07 17:51:11 2007
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23:50 < wgGuest39> hello
23:51 < wgGuest39> i need help
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--- Day changed Fri Jun 08 2007
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02:01 < ckotil> any reason why I cant return www_managePendingVersions() instead of www_manageVersions() at the end of www_approveVersionTag() ? it takes me to the adminOnly() screen...and im admin. any ideas?
02:02 < ckotil> im working in Operations/ VersionTag.pm
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07:16 <+perlDreamer> Using WebGUI::Form, how do you change the text shown in a button from Save to something else?
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13:36 < pjesi> morgning
13:37 < pjesi> I finally managed to figure out what got fubar after updating to .18
13:39 < pjesi> the CS table has not been migrated
13:39 < pjesi> so SQL statements fails
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16:20 < SDuensin> Greetings.
16:36 < ckotil> hello
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16:40 < SDuensin> Hi ckotil & AMH_bob 
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16:53 < AMH_bob> Good morning!
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20:28 <+perlDreamer> Hey, folks
20:30 < SDuensin> Hey perlDreamer 
20:32 <+perlDreamer> I've been buried in chips.  Anything cool happening out here?
20:34 < SDuensin> Not that I've noticed.  :-/
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22:38 <@rizen> I'm socially retarded
22:38  * SDuensin chuckles
22:41 <+perlDreamer> How do you figure?
22:42 <@rizen> you tell me, i'm the retarded one
22:42 <+perlDreamer> I'm no better
22:43 < SDuensin> You're both nuts.
22:44 <+perlDreamer> Besides, you're part geek, and it's just part of the package
22:44 <+perlDreamer> And, of course, we have to be extra patient with java-hacking geeks
22:45 < SDuensin> Yea!  Those lamers!
22:45 <@rizen> one of these days colin, pow! straight to the moon.
22:45  * SDuensin has been in C++ and Lua lately.
22:46 < SDuensin> Colin?
22:46 <@rizen> sduensin needs to be studying perl and yui so he can make webgui desktop
22:46 <+perlDreamer> Yes.
22:46 <+perlDreamer> Abandon you're java follies and stay on the true path!
22:46 <+perlDreamer> There is no J in LAMP
22:46 < SDuensin> Unfortunately, there is no LAMP at WORK.
22:47  * perlDreamer notes that there is no P in WORK
22:47 <@rizen> step 1: become bruce wayne wealthy
22:47 <@rizen> step 2: build webgui desktop in your newfound free time
22:48 < SDuensin> Tell ya what.  You provide #1 and I'll gladly do #2.
22:48 < nuba> heh
22:48 <+perlDreamer> ditto
22:48 <+perlDreamer> ala Mark Shuttleworth
22:48 <+perlDreamer> see, we even know the strategy works
22:49 <+perlDreamer> rizen: feel like helping me close some bugs?  Do  you have time?
22:51 <@rizen> i neither feel like it nor have the time for it, or i'd be doing it myself...but if you pose questions i'll do my best to respond with something that simulates an answer
22:52 <+perlDreamer> Is it a bug if there someone sets the user session timeout to 0?  This causes people to be automatically logged out after logging in.
22:54 <@rizen> so is your question, if they are an idiot, should we let them be, or should we protect them from themselves?
22:55 <+perlDreamer> Yes :)   I'm leaning toward letting them shoot themselves, and suggesting they put in an rfe for a 15 minute minimum.
22:57 <@rizen> rfe it is
23:00 <+perlDreamer> Next one. When a package is deployed, hidden assets become visible.  Is this by design, or is it a bug?
23:01 <@rizen> yung is already working on that one
23:02 <+perlDreamer> How about the byte ordering problem with the Poll and Storable?
23:07 <@rizen> no idea what you're talking about
23:08 <+perlDreamer> A user switched from a G4 to an Intel Xserve, both running OS X.  Storable started complaining about byte ordering inside of the Poll, relating to the Graph module.
23:08 <+perlDreamer> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/polls-not-working-on-os-x-intel#XL71AxwxkpvKi5to2Iu7kA
23:12 <@rizen> that's a problem with Storable
23:12 <@rizen> nothing we can do about it
23:13 <@rizen> it's a known issue with using storable. the only option we would have is to switch everybody to using some text based serialization system rather than a binary one like storable
23:13 <+perlDreamer> Like JSON, YAML or Dumper.
23:14 <@rizen> yup
23:14 <+perlDreamer> And we use Storable all over the place.
23:15  * SDuensin likes JSON.
23:16 <+perlDreamer> It does mean that WebGUI packages are not cross platform.
23:17 <+perlDreamer> Polls, Events, SQLForms, SyndicatedContent, WSClient all use Storable.
23:17 <@rizen> Packages don't use storable
23:17 <@rizen> they use json
23:17 <@rizen> for that very reason
23:19 <+perlDreamer> Some of the Assets store Storable blobs in the db.
23:23 <@rizen> fine, but that doesn't mean the package system is compromised
23:23 <@rizen> it means those assets are
23:24 <+perlDreamer> right, only packages with assets that store stuff in the db are not portable.
23:24 <+perlDreamer> So far, that only appears to be the Poll
23:25 <@rizen> you should kick mrhairgrease in the nutz for that one
23:26 < SDuensin> Can't you just patch Storable?
23:30 <@rizen> can't you just tell a 32bit system to be a 64 bit system
23:31 < SDuensin> You can, but it'll just giggle.
23:31 <@rizen> then you understand why you can't patch storable
23:31 < SDuensin> perlDreamer said it was an endian problem.  Not a data size problem.
23:32 < SDuensin> Big difference.  :-)
23:32 <@rizen> i'm not saying it's a 32 bit vs 64 bit problem
23:32 <@rizen> i'm saying it's an architecture problem
23:32 <@rizen> it's not something that can be fixed
23:32 <@rizen> it's simply the difference between two platforms
23:33 < SDuensin> Sounds like Storable is kinda crappy.  :-)
23:35 <+perlDreamer> Not crappy, just not portable.
23:35 < SDuensin> Not portable IS crappy!
23:35  * SDuensin is Mr. Portable.
23:36 <@rizen> no, sduensin is mr potable
23:36  * SDuensin suppresses rude comments about rizen "drinking" him.
23:36 <@rizen> you like things to be drinkable, don't you?
23:37 < SDuensin> Yes.  And when my C++ compiler comes out later tonight, I *WILL* be drinking.  :-)
23:47 < SDuensin> OK, it's weekend time!  Later all!
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23:59 <+perlDreamer> You still buried, rizen?
--- Day changed Sat Jun 09 2007
00:00 <@rizen> always man
00:00 <@rizen> always
00:02 <@rizen> it's what happens when you try to grow a company into an empire
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01:01 <+perlDreamer> whoa, a perlbot
01:40 <+perlDreamer> rizen: in the Image asset, why does setSize take the greater of the extra input or the file?
01:40 <+perlDreamer>  my $size = ($input > $storage->getFileSize($self->get("filename"))) ? $input : $storage->getFileSize($self->get("filename"));
01:41 <+perlDreamer> It's really old, rev 3 code
01:42 <@rizen> i believe it's because input is always zero unless it is bigger
01:42 <@rizen> so it's a non zero test
01:47 <+perlDreamer> I've been working on SDuensin's file sizing bug (assets report the wrong size after commit).  That method is causing the bug.  I tested discarding the one from Image and inheriting from File and it works fine.
01:47 <+perlDreamer> Do you see anything I should be wary of?
01:48 <@rizen> ok
01:48 <@rizen> sounds fine
01:48 <+perlDreamer> Sweet!
01:48 <+perlDreamer> --bug
01:48 <+perlDreamer> I'll work on backporting it to 7.3 then.
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02:14 <+perlDreamer> crud.  ++bug
02:14 <+perlDreamer> back to the whiteboard
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02:54 < cap10morgan> i have an ubuntu feisty build of the wre to contribute. where do i upload that again?
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03:03 < cap10morgan> rizen?
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05:17 <@rizen> cap10morgan
05:29 <+Radix_> hey.. got a wre setup with multiple sites on it.  I have a main website www.mydomain.com and several subsites - s1.mydomain, s2.mydomain, etc.  I've configured mydomain.com to go to www.mydomain in hosts/webgui config etc, but it always seems to go to the config that's loaded first alphabetically regardless.
05:30 <@rizen> yup
05:30 <@rizen> it's because you didn't do it right
05:30 <@rizen> that's all the help i can provide
05:30 <+Radix_> Any easy way to fix it?  or do I have to use the modproxy config on the site that's receiving it and redirect it there?
05:31 <+Radix_> :P
05:31 <@rizen> ok, i suppose i can tell you
05:31 <@rizen> the most likely culprit is in your either the last line in your modproxy config for each of your sites, or the ServerName line in the individual modperl files
05:32 <@rizen> for example
05:32 <@rizen> in s1.example.com.modproxy
05:32 <@rizen> you should have ServerName s1.example.ccom
05:33 <+Radix_> atm it's just what the wre generated via addsite
05:33 <@rizen> and RewriteRule ^/(.*) http://%{HTTP_HOST}:81/$1 [P]
05:33 <@rizen> then in modperl you should have Servername s1.example.com
05:34 <@rizen> and in the rewrite rule instead of %{HTTP_HOST} you might have the actual host name
05:34 <@rizen> and if those are all true
05:34 <@rizen> then the next place to look is local dns
05:35 <@rizen> if your local dns doesn't match your external dns, then you'll have problems
05:35 <@rizen> in most cases local dns is nothing more than /etc/hosts
05:35 < SDuensin> Hey rizen - waaaay off topic, but are you a video gamer?  If so, this will be funny:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfkDxF2kn1I   (If not, it's still funny!)
05:35 <@rizen> but sometimes people actually run named on their local box too
05:36 <+Radix_> Bleh.. I just found some serveralias mydomain.com in each of the modproxy files - that has probably caused it
05:36 <+Radix_> typical, as soon as get frustrated enough to ask for help I find the source myself :)
05:37 <@rizen> yeah, stop asking for help
05:37 <+Radix_> hehe.. thanks :)
05:39 <+Radix_> found a bug in the ubuntu 6.10 wre setup btw
05:39 <+Radix_> the default spectre.conf file has a missing comma in it
05:40 <@rizen> that's in all 0.7.2 releases
05:40 <+Radix_> actually.. that may be 7.3.18 instead actually.. since that'd be where that file came from
05:40 <@rizen> it's fixed in wre 0.8.0
05:40 <+Radix_> I added it to the wre installation wiki page
05:41 <+Radix_> along with the force install weather::com::finder steps which are needed for the current wre too
05:41 <@rizen> SD, why oh why would you waste 4 minutes of my life like that
05:41 <@rizen> i'll never get that time back
05:43 < SDuensin> Because it's FUNNY!
05:44 <@rizen> ok, it was kinda funny...but i'm researching CAS
05:45 <@rizen> i must have concentration...not funny
05:46 <@rizen> be sure to check plainblack.com on monday morning
05:46 < SDuensin> CAS?  As in CAS before RAS?
05:47 <@rizen> CAS = Central Authentication Services
05:47 < SDuensin> Eh, mine has something to do with RAM.  Never did understand it.  :-)
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21:06 < perlDreame1> Hey, folk.s
21:06 < perlDreame1> How do you draw good people to a BOF type conference session.
21:06 <@rizen> i'm not sure they're all folks
21:06 < perlDreame1> Food?
21:06 <@rizen> some might be sirs
21:06 < perlDreame1> Schwag?
21:07 < perlDreame1> Empty promises and glitz?
21:07 <@rizen> or ma'am
21:07 <@rizen> beer!!!
21:07 < perlDreame1> I'm thinking of doing a BOF session at OSCON this year
21:07 <@rizen> are bof's done in hallway space at oscon, or do you get a room like they do at apache con?
21:08 < perlDreame1> They're done in rooms
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21:08 < perlDreame1> http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2007/create/e_sess?x-t=os2007_BoF.form
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02:38 < wjw61> evening rizen
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22:43 < ckotil> rizen: I have a CAS authentication module for webgui
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23:19 <@rizen> anybody actually here? need an opinion
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23:27 < xdanger> yup
23:28 <@rizen> Ok, we have the section of our site called "Store" right now, which contains product and service descriptions, as well as lets you buy our products and services
23:28 <@rizen> my question is, is that word descriptive enough
23:28 <@rizen> my favorite word for this link is "offerings"
23:29 <@rizen> but i don't think that it's a good word
23:29 <@rizen> for the general public
23:29 <@rizen> other options would be products, shop, services
23:29 <@rizen> unfortunately there isn't enough room in the menu for "products and services"
23:30 <@rizen> i know this might seem like a trivial thing...but i keep getting complaints that people say that they can't find anything on our site, so i'm trying to make some positive changes
23:30 <@rizen> and this area isn't one i've gotten any suggestions on
23:30 < xdanger> Shop is quite descriptive
23:31 < xdanger> but it's Store in other form...
23:31 <@rizen> being an international user, does one have better meaning to you than the other?
23:32 < xdanger> Offerings doesn't sound so nice for some reason...
23:32 <@rizen> they mean virtually the same thing to the average user here
23:32 <@rizen> no i mean "shop" vs "store"
23:33 < xdanger> Shop is something that many recognices...
23:33 < xdanger> it's more friendly
23:33 <@rizen> k
23:41 < ckotil> what about 'Online Store'
23:41 < ckotil> what were you researching CAS for?
23:41 < ckotil> we have been thinking of dumping CAS and switchign to Cosign
23:42 <@rizen> since it's on our site i think "Online" would be redundant
23:43 < ckotil> but if its a problem of clarity, it would solve that
23:43 <@rizen> i want to implement some single sign on stuff into webgui so that it can be better integrated into various enterprises and also so that you can single sign on between various webgui sites
23:43 < ckotil> right on.
23:43 < ckotil> single sign on between sights has been a problem for me
23:43 < ckotil> between domains really
23:44 < ckotil> even tho i have a single webgui instance for multiple domains, since the cookies are separate from one another it forces users to click the cas login button everytime they switch domains
23:45 < ckotil> dunno an elegant solution for that.
23:45 <@rizen> ah, well i have a solution for that now
23:45 <@rizen> it's built in to 7.4
23:45 < ckotil> awsome
23:45 <@rizen> you can see it in action on plainblack.com right now
23:45 <@rizen> in the upper right corner you can click on the webgui icon
23:46 <@rizen> and it will single sign you on to the webgui.org domain
23:46 <@rizen> completely transparent to the user
23:46 < ckotil> very nice.
23:46 < ckotil> you think it will play nicely with my CAS.pm authentication plugin/
23:46 <@rizen> it's a quick and dirty solution for multiple sites on the same database
23:46 < ckotil> thats my setup
23:47 <@rizen> oh yeah, your cas plugin won't even know about this
23:47 <@rizen> it will work perfectly
23:47 < ckotil> sweet.
23:47 <@rizen> you're welcome to pull the changes you need out of svn and apply them to 7.3.18 if you want
23:47 < ckotil> im tempted to
23:48 < ckotil> if only i had the same multi domain setup on my dev site 
23:48 < ckotil> ill just wait for the official release
23:48 <@rizen> https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/revision/?rev=4181
23:48 <@rizen> coolio
23:48 < ckotil> interesting..only 3 files
23:48 < ckotil> hehe tempting
23:49 <@rizen> it's quite elegant
23:49 <@rizen> only about 15 lines of code in all
23:49 < ckotil> are you manipulating the cookie?
23:49 <@rizen> nope
23:49 <@rizen> it's all done inside the webgui session system
23:50 < ckotil> cool.
23:50 <@rizen> i just link the session from one domain to the other one
23:50 <@rizen> so that you can use the same session in both domains
23:50 < ckotil> thats great.
--- Day changed Mon Jun 11 2007
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00:11 <+crythias> ok. What did I miss?
00:11 <@rizen> only everything
00:12 <+crythias> Figures. No more forum on pb.com?
00:12 <@rizen> we talked about the new pb/wg sites, single sign on
00:12 <@rizen> opinions were asked for and given
00:12 <@rizen> the world came to an end and then began again
00:12 <@rizen> the only forum on plainblack.com is the support forum
00:12 <@rizen> all community stuff has been moved to the other site
00:13 <+crythias> other... site?
00:13 <@rizen> click the wg logo in the upper right corner of pb
00:13 <+crythias> man, I have been out of it.
00:14 <+crythias> ok, so ... no autoredirect for www.plainblack.com/discuss? bummer :(
00:14 <@rizen> i can do that quick
00:14 <@rizen> just didn't think about it
00:16 <+crythias> webgi.org conference logo is beauty, but goes nowhere.
00:16 <+crythias> webgui.org...
00:17 <@rizen> the site's not done yet
00:17 <+crythias> :) ok.
00:17 <@rizen> we're doing it over the weekend so it's ready on monday
00:17 <+crythias> ah. 
00:17 <@rizen> you'll note that the front page has no content either
00:17 <+crythias> lo siento
00:17 <@rizen> there, your redirect is in place
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00:21 <+crythias> :)
00:21 < wgGuest78> what does it take to get ops on this channel
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00:25 < ckotil> ...
00:26 <@preaction> i need to find an IRC client that will warn me about clones
00:32 < ckotil> http://irssi.org/scripts/scripts/clones.pl
00:51 <@rizen> just so you can catch me when i do evil things?
00:51 <@preaction> you didn't even give me time to come up with an appropriately witty response
00:51 <@rizen> i figured if i hung around too long someone would catch on to me
00:52 < ckotil> i was typing a response
00:52 < ckotil> ya, then i noticed the ip
00:52 <@preaction> you don't know about /whowas <nick> ?
00:53 <@rizen> so i take it your computer is all fixed
00:53 <@preaction> colloquy doesn't support it, but if you open the server console you can see the reply
00:53 < ckotil> ohh whowas, thats new to me
00:53 < ckotil> i use irssi
00:53 < ckotil> it rocks
00:53 <@preaction> yeah, 6 hours of driving and mucking about with my car, 4 hours of driving, 10 seconds in the store to pick up the A/C adapter
00:54 < ckotil> ive got one of those ;)
00:54 < ckotil> i take the laptop w/ gps along with me on long trips
00:54 <@preaction> ooh, that's a good idea
00:55 < ckotil> it rocks , i use M$ trips 2007
00:55 < ckotil> im planning on getting that iphone, might make my laptop/gps setup obsolete
00:56 <@preaction> i hear supply shortages, so i'm not going to hold my breath for one
00:56 < ckotil> yeah..
00:56 < ckotil> i think work is placing  a bulk order on some
00:56 < ckotil> i hope that pulls through
00:58 <@rizen> i'm going to be camping out to get one
01:01 < ckotil> nice
01:04 < ckotil> heading out to a bbq.
01:49 <+Radix_> rizen: can you rank my RFE when you get a chance - http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/ability-to-move-changes-from-one-version-tag-to-another#8IN0PZcA38N4nAE3-6i7kg
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01:50 < perlDreame1> I need somebody with 7.4 running to help me verify a bug.
01:50 < perlDreame1> According to wG, Admin's uiLevel is 5
01:50 < perlDreame1> even though in the db it says that it is 9
01:50 < perlDreame1> There's an easy way to test it
01:50 < perlDreame1> Fire up wG
01:50 < perlDreame1> Turn on Admin
01:50 < perlDreame1> then check the New Content section of the Admin Bar
01:51 < perlDreame1> if you don't have the SQL Report in that list, then the UI level is not 9
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02:42 < xdanger> So I have a cs with CommitWithApproval.. and when I'm trying to commit, it warns that: Couldn't execute operation : WebGUI::Operation::VersionTag::www_approveVersionTag. Root cause: Can't locate object method "setApproved" via package "WebGUI::Workflow::Activity::CommitVersionTag" at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/VersionTag.pm line 63.
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03:56 <@rizen> that means that you're trying to run setApproved on the workflow activity
03:57 <@rizen> when you need to run it on the version tag
03:57 <@rizen> you're doing $self->setApproved
03:57 <@rizen> you need $versionTag->setApproved;
03:58 <@rizen> or rather...not you..but the workflow engine
03:58 <@rizen> i'm looking at the code for that module though
03:58 <@rizen> and it looks good
03:59 <@rizen> nevermind
04:00 <@rizen> i think i see what's going on here
04:00 <@rizen> xdanger, are you even still here?
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04:03 < SDuensin> Greetings.
04:03 <@rizen> howdy
04:04 < SDuensin> Hey bud.
04:40 <@rizen> radix: don't know if you're here or not
04:40 <@rizen> but if you are check out webgui.org
04:41 <@rizen> your new people behind webgui banner is BAD ASS
04:41 <@rizen> you almost look like a super hero
04:42 < vayde> looks sweet
04:42 <+Radix-wrk> hehe
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04:43 <+Radix-wrk> I am a super hero ;)
04:43 <+Radix-wrk> "wG hero"! :)
04:45 <+Radix-wrk> :)
04:45 <@rizen> what do you guys think of the new wg site?
04:46 <+Radix-wrk> I like it, though the logo blends in with the yellow a bit much I think
04:46 <+Radix-wrk> White on Yellow isn't that easy to read
04:47 <+Radix-wrk> http://webgui.org/uploads/LK/h9/LKh9er8DR3b1qsuuw0FdkA/corner.jpg
04:47 < vayde> yeah, you have to squint to read it
04:47 <+Radix-wrk> "Web Done Right" - should be in black I reckon
04:47 <@rizen> i've passed your feedback on to our designer
04:48 <@rizen> actually though
04:48 <@rizen> i was talking more about the ability to find things
04:48 <@rizen> now that "community" has been seperated from "content"
04:48 <+Radix-wrk> Love the new menu structure on the side
04:49 <@rizen> s/content/commerce/
04:49 <+Radix-wrk> Much easier to navigate around in
04:50 <+Radix-wrk> Are you going to add a section for webgui hosting companies (including plainblack obviously) anywhere?
04:51 <@rizen> maybe
04:51 <@rizen> i guess it would depend upon what the community wants...and how it benefits us
04:52 <@rizen> we have been talking about letting other webgui professionals buy banners in the space where your super hero banner is
05:04 <@rizen> radix  do you host sites for people?
05:04 <@rizen> is that why you asked?
05:06 <+Radix-wrk> kinda
05:07 <+Radix-wrk> I've just started a sideline - doing a few sites for family/friends really atm and hoping to do more in future
05:07 <+Radix-wrk> I'm using webgui for it all, and enjoying doing it so far
05:08 <+Radix-wrk> it's very small scale at the moment.. just in my spare time - and will be like that for a while I suspect
05:09 <+Radix-wrk> atm an advert would be too much for me right now, I've got more than enough work to last me until I go to europe - but perhaps in future
05:13 <@rizen> i always have to weigh these types of decisions...and they always hurt
05:13 <@rizen> on one hand, it probably would be good for community growth if we provided a list of hosters somewhere
05:13 <@rizen> and what's good for the community is usually good for plain black, though in varing degrees
05:14 <@rizen> on the other hand, i have to look out for a number 1: plain black, cuz without pb turning a profit, there is no webgui, and therefore no community
05:14 <+Radix-wrk> Yeah, I completely understand
05:15 <+Radix-wrk> I'm not really fussed either way, was just asking really.
05:16 <@rizen> i know
05:16 <+Radix-wrk> Atm there doesn't even seem to be any links to you guys even for custom devel/hosting
05:16 <@rizen> but these kinds of questions vex me regardless of the intent of the person asking
05:16 <+Radix-wrk> Yeah, I know
05:17 <@rizen> there are at least two links to us on every page
05:17 <@rizen> upper right corner, and the copyright
05:17 <@rizen> but no, there's no real advertising of our services on this site
05:17 <@rizen> the idea behind the split was to make this the "community's" web site
05:17 <@rizen> so community stuff goes here
05:17 <@rizen> and plain black services stuff goes on our site
05:17 <+Radix-wrk> yep
05:18 <@rizen> its a pretty stark contrast to anything we've ever done before
05:18 <@rizen> i hope it works out in our favor
05:18 <@rizen> "our" being both pb and the community
05:18 <+Radix-wrk> yup
05:18 <+Radix-wrk> I do too :)
05:19 < ckotil> it sounds like a good idea
05:19 < vayde> succeed or fail, ya gotta try new things
05:19 <@rizen> over the next six months we're going to be doing a lot of new things that no one has ever seen us do before
05:19 <@rizen> internally it's called the plan of 8
05:19 <@rizen> 8 big changes
05:19 <@rizen> and this is number 1
05:20 <+Radix-wrk> sounds interesting :)
05:20 < ckotil> awsome.
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08:53 <@rizen> radix
08:53 <+Radix-wrk> yes?
08:54 <@rizen> talked it over with our director of operations...and i think we are going to allow a list of hosters on the site
08:54 <@rizen> for free
08:54 <@rizen> i shouldn't say "I think", I should say, "we are"
08:54 <+Radix-wrk> Sounds good
08:55 <@rizen> it's going to be in the form of a wiki page so people can add themselves to the list
08:55 <+Radix-wrk> I thought of that earlier when we were talking about it.. long as people respect the wiki and don't go adding themselves to the top of the list and stuff
08:56 <+Radix-wrk> that'd be my only fear with that
08:56 <@rizen> I'm going to put some instructions in the wiki page...hopefully people will follow the instructions.
08:56 <@rizen> if not, we'll have to kill the page
08:57 <+Radix-wrk> Why not just add a page that you control and an email method for ppl to add themselves?
08:57 <@rizen> because we don't want to have an approval process on it. the act of doing that is almost like an endorsement of their service
08:57 <@rizen> and we're not going to vet the hosters
08:57 <+Radix-wrk> I suppose a wiki is more manageable and yeah, fair enough
08:58 <+Radix-wrk> always a chance that people will regard that as censorship, etc, etc..
08:58 <+Radix-wrk> Okey.. well when it gets set up I'll put my name down I guess ;)
08:59 <+Radix-wrk> Been enjoying doing a few websites from scratch with webgui lately - not really done that much before
09:05 <@rizen> http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/hosters
09:06 <@rizen> hopefully the rules are clear enough
09:06 <@rizen> and hopefully people will follow them
09:06 <+Radix-wrk> Hmm.. alphabetical huh.. then mine would be on top
09:06 <@rizen> that's good news for you
09:07 <+Radix-wrk> no no.. I'm too small and too busy at the moment :)
09:07 <+Radix-wrk> I'll add myself later when there's more people for me to get lost in :)
09:07 <@rizen> i think the only fair way to do it is alphabetically
09:07 <+Radix-wrk> Yeah, makes sense.
09:10 <+Radix-wrk> Do you remember the website theme that I won the recent style contest with?  See if you recognise it now - http://tenpart.juga.biz/
09:11 <@rizen> it looks pretty similar, just with a logo and a little color chnage
09:11 <@rizen> it was a good design 
09:11 <+Radix-wrk> it's site I'm doing for my step-dad's band
09:11 <@rizen> they have a cool logo
09:11 <+Radix-wrk> yeah, it's a beautiful style to work with
09:12 <@rizen> it's good that you can reuse your work like that
09:12 <+Radix-wrk> yup - that's why I love webgui so much - it lets me reuse stuff :)
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13:05 < pjesi> morning
13:10 < pjesi> did you move everything to the wiki?
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18:00 <@rizen> define "everything"
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18:45 <+perlDreamer> morning folks
18:49 <@rizen> morning
18:50 < ckotil> hello
18:51 <+perlDreamer> what's happening in the www? (Wide World of WebGUI)
18:52 < ckotil> Things are running smooth for me.
18:53 <+perlDreamer> ckotil: would you mind manually running a wG test for me?
18:53 <+perlDreamer> You'd need to have a copy of 7.4 laying around.
18:53 <+perlDreamer> If you don't, then it wouldn't work.
18:54 < ckotil> sure thing
18:54 < ckotil> i dont mind doing it on my dev instance
18:54 <+perlDreamer> head over to /data/WebGUI/t
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18:57 < SDuensin> Greetings.
18:57 <+perlDreamer> howdy
18:57 <+perlDreamer> Seen the new webgui.org website?
18:58 < SDuensin> Yep.  I wasn't ready for it last night and nearly went blind!
18:58 <@rizen> what?
18:58 < SDuensin> All that yellow in a dark room!
18:58 <@rizen> pd, should have my wre working in the next few minutes
18:59 <+perlDreamer> sweet!
19:00 <+perlDreamer> I did some digging around last night, and it sound like my NMI problem may be hardware related, or it could be just X.org having problems.
19:01 <+perlDreamer> Some people said it was memory.
19:19 <@rizen> you said that if i log in with admin
19:19 <@rizen> i won't see sql report
19:19 <@rizen> right?
19:19 <@rizen> cuz of the ui level problem?
19:20 <+perlDreamer> That's one way to see the problem.
19:20 <+perlDreamer> The other way is to run t/Session.t
19:20 <@rizen> i do see the sql report
19:20 <@rizen> running the test now
19:21 <@rizen> all tests successful
19:22 <@rizen> checked out full svn at 10:30am (central) and reset the database at that time
19:22 <+perlDreamer> I'll close the bug then.
19:26 <+perlDreamer> It would be cool to get a new laptop, but expensive
19:26 <+perlDreamer> I wonder what service times and costs are like...
19:26 < ckotil> get a macbook pro and dont worry about service
19:27 <+perlDreamer> I'm a self-avowed linux bigot.
19:28 < ckotil> osx is similiar to unix and you get an awsome gui
19:28 < ckotil> toss parallels into the mix and you have one of the most versative OS's ever
19:28 < ckotil> im installing vista as we speak to my mac
19:29 < ckotil> windows xp runs better on the mac that it does on my desktop at home
19:30 <+perlDreamer> I've heard OSX is very, very cool, but I prefer to run free software.
19:30 < ckotil> me too
19:30 < ckotil> most of it is free
19:35 <@rizen> gotta go, be back in a bit
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20:08 < wjw61> hungry?
20:09 <@RizenHasTheMunch> yup...must go to lunch soon
20:09 < wjw61> When you get back, I have a few questions...  will watch for you here...
20:10 <@RizenHasTheMunch> are they short?
20:10 < wjw61> probably not... :-)
20:10 <@RizenHasTheMunch> hehe
20:10 < wjw61> lol
20:10 <@RizenHasTheMunch> ok
20:17 <@RizenHasTheMunch> so as i was walking out the door i realised i don't have time to go out for lunch cuz i have a meeting at 1pm
20:17 <@RizenHasTheMunch> then i looked in my kitchen and realised i didn't have any good food cuz i haven't been to the store in a week and a half
20:18 <@RizenHasTheMunch> so i'm going to have to settle for 2 carrots and a bowl of cereal
20:18 -!- RizenHasTheMunch is now known as rizen
20:18 <@rizen> go ahead and ask your question
20:19 < wjw61> I noticed a new binary for ubuntu feisty .... have had some trouble getting CVS_XS to compile... does the new binary include it?
20:20 <@rizen> no
20:20 <@rizen> it is wre 0.7.2, so it's the same as all other versions of that release
20:20 <@rizen> has the same modules
20:21 < wjw61> ok... will probably install it anyway... but won't be a priority now... next item...
20:22 < wjw61> I suspect I made by modifying the dev.localhost.localdomain site when playing around.  I think I should have made a new site and left dev.x.x alone...
20:23 <@rizen> are you saying your broke dev.localhost?
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20:23 < wjw61> no.. it works just fine...
20:23 <@rizen> the sentence above doesn't make any sense
20:24 <@rizen> reread then clarify
20:24 < wjw61> what I am attempting to do is have /data/WebGUI be controlled via svn.  When I check out however, mod-perl breaks...
20:25 <+crythias> that's like spooky
20:25 < wjw61> I have yet to track down why it won't start with a fresh svn update... perhaps I should not check out from HEAD?
20:25 <@rizen> do these steps
20:25 <@rizen> cd /data/
20:25 <@rizen> mv WebGUI WebGUI.old
20:25 <@rizen> svn co https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/WebGUI
20:26 <@rizen> cp WebGUI.old/etc/*.conf WebGUI/etc/
20:26 <@rizen> cd sbin
20:26 <@rizen> perl testEnvironment.pl
20:26 <@rizen> that last bit should tell you if you're missing any perl modules
20:28 < wjw61> ok,... this is what I have been doing, but will give it a shot again.. brb
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20:28 <@rizen> if testEnvironment.pl fails to install the perl modules then you should do it the old fashioned way
20:28 <@rizen> cpan
20:28 <@rizen> install PMName
20:29 < wjw61> ..:-)  yup.. tried that too... they fail to compile... 
20:30 < wjw61> ... will however attempt it again...
20:32 < xdanger> rizen: you had a suggestion to my problem?
20:32 <@rizen> refresh my memory, what is your problem?
20:33 < xdanger> < xdanger> So I have a cs with CommitWithApproval.. and when I'm trying to commit, it warns that: Couldn't execute operation :  WebGUI::Operation::VersionTag::www_approveVersionTag. Root cause: Can't locate object method "setApproved" via package  "WebGUI::Workflow::Activity::CommitVersionTag" at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/VersionTag.pm line 63.
20:35 <@rizen> oh right well the problem is that it's trying to execute setApproved on the CommitVersionTag activity, except that its the wrong activity. it should be doing that on the RequestApprovalForVersionTag activity
20:35 <@rizen> i looked through the code and couldn't figure out why it would get into the state that it's in
20:36 <@rizen> so the only thing i'm left with is either you've discovered a massive bug in the workflow engine that nobody else has discovered in a year of using it
20:36 <@rizen> or you have edited your workflows in such a way that they are no longer working properly
20:37 <@rizen> i suppose there could be also something that i'm just not seeing, but those seem to be the most likely options
20:46 < wjw61> rizen.. is Config::JSON a relatively new requirement for wre?  
20:51 <@rizen> yes. it's not even a requirement for wre 0.7.2
20:51 <@rizen> only for 0.8.0
20:51 <@rizen> which isn't out yet
20:51 <+perlDreamer> --bug
20:51 <@rizen> ++++++++++++++bug
20:51 < wjw61> hmm.. when running testEnvironment.pl.. that is the error I get... 
20:52 <@rizen> pd, i'm adding bugs faster than you can fix them
20:52 <@rizen> right, cuz you're using WebGUI 7.4
20:52 <@rizen> which will require WRE 0.8.0
20:53 <@rizen> so you'll need to install any new modules that WebGUI requires of you
20:53 <@rizen> cuz 7.4 will have new requirements
20:54 <+perlDreamer> 7.4 will require Wine, Samba, Bind, Sendmail and M5
20:54 <+perlDreamer> we rewrote it in Fortran for speed
20:55 < wjw61> ok.. will have to troubleshoot the install of Config::JSON then.. it will not compile here for some reason..
20:55 <@rizen> there's nothing to even compile
20:55 <@rizen> i wrote it
20:56 <@rizen> its a pure perl modules
20:56 <@rizen> type "which perl" at your command line right now
20:56 <@rizen> and tell me what you get
20:57 < wjw61> /usr/bin/perl... hmmm... that's not right!
20:57 <@rizen> yeah
20:57 <@rizen> . /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment
20:57 <@rizen> then type cpan
20:57 <@rizen> i bet things go better
20:57 <@rizen> the dot space at the beginning is significant
20:58 < wjw61> yes.. I actually have the in my .profile.. not being picked up... will examine that later...
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23:35 < xdanger> rizaway: I have the default workflow in place...
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--- Day changed Tue Jun 12 2007
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00:50 <@khenn> anyone here know what would cause data to be archived in the SQL Form?
00:51 <@khenn> it seems to be a mysterious process
00:51 <+perlDreamer> no clue, khenn
00:51 <+perlDreamer> You need to talk to MHG
00:51 <@khenn> figured as much
00:52 <@khenn> thanks
00:53 <+perlDreamer> on a quick look, it looks like old data is archived whenever new data is saved
00:53 <+perlDreamer> see line 2809
01:10 <+perlDreamer> You should be able to back trace the @updates array from there.
01:12 -!- rizaway is now known as rizen
01:13 <@rizen> xdanger, i'm afraid that trying to discover what's going on with your site is more than i have time for. either post a bug report with instructions on how to replicate, or take it up in our support board and someone will figure it out with you.
01:14 < xdanger> I'm gonna have a look at it myself when I have time...
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01:14 <+MrHairgrease> hey guys
01:14 <+MrHairgrease> wanna have a laugh
01:14 <@rizen> howdy
01:15 <+MrHairgrease> some guy dared to reply his to me
01:15 <+MrHairgrease>  ok, i will try to show to some one. but for me it's absolutely ok with English too.
01:16 <+MrHairgrease> He also is very sure that sentences without verbs are considered to be correct in the English speaking part of the world
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01:18 < wjw61> ahhhhh... and things work!!
01:31 <@rizen> that's funny mhg
01:31 <@rizen> how is it exactly that you structure a sentence without a verb
01:32 <@rizen> what action could take place?
01:32 <@rizen> i guess it would be a sentence like "the dumb brown cow."
01:32 <@rizen> but then you have to ask yourself, "WHAT?" about the dumb brown cow
01:32 <@rizen> nice job wjw
01:33 < wjw61> :-)
01:33 < wjw61> keeps one guessing ...
01:34 < wjw61> .. yet another sentence without a subject..
01:34 <+MrHairgrease> rizen: i asked the guy that question, and he replied with:
01:34 <+MrHairgrease> yeah, i read it hundreds times and it were ok.
01:37 <@rizen> but even that has a verb
01:38 <@rizen> "read"
01:39 <+MrHairgrease> the sentence i referred to was: 'A molecule with an inner conductive part
01:39 <+MrHairgrease>  57 (delocalized $\pi$-electron systems) connected to an electrode.'
01:39 <+MrHairgrease> ignore the 57
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02:05 <+perlDreamer> khenn, you just missed Martin
02:06 <@khenn> crap
02:06 <@khenn> I figured I wouldn't see him till tomorrow
02:06 <@khenn> it is after midnight in the netherlands afterall =p
02:06 <@khenn> guess he just got home from the pub
02:09 <+perlDreamer> It's hard being Eurotrash
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03:20 <@rizen> hey lucy, you got some splainin to do
03:29 <@preaction> pray you aren't calling me girls names now?
03:51 <@rizen> whatever betty
03:56 <@preaction> rizen: i'm loathe to do this, but i think spectre's cron isn't responding anymore. until i know why i don't want to restart it, but i can't see anything symptomatic.
03:56 <@preaction> i can force jobs to run, and they'll run, but nothing gets started by the scheduler itself
03:57 <@preaction> i ran into this problem on a client site as well, and restarting spectre seemed to fix it
03:57 <@rizen> well you might as well restart it cuz we don't have any real troubleshooting mechanisms to look inside the scheduler
03:58 <@rizen> maybe i need to build in stuff to do it, like i did with workflow
04:00 <@preaction> a way to connect to the process and read what it's doing? like listening on a socket?
04:01 <@rizen> perl spectre.pl --status
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04:01 <@rizen> it tells you what's going on with workflow
04:01 <@rizen> at least enough that you can troubleshoot what's going on with the system
04:02 <@rizen> if i did the same for cron i think we'd be goo
04:02 <@rizen> good
04:02 <@rizen> plus...i made it so no matter how many times it errored, workflows keep running
04:02 <@rizen> so that way once they get corrected we're all good
04:02 <@rizen> i should do the same for cron
04:03 <@preaction> do cron jobs have a "last run" datetime?
04:03 <@rizen> i'd have to look, i don't think so
04:04 <@preaction> doesn't look like it, but that might be a good idea as well
04:05 <@rizen> right, that would be required to work with --status
04:05 <@preaction> once a cron job is posted, it behaves like a normal instance, no?
04:05 <@rizen> probably along with a few other things
04:05 <@rizen> just like i did with workflow
04:05 <@rizen> yes
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06:44 <+Radix-wrk> anyone awake?
06:45 <@rizen> no
06:48 <+Radix-wrk> macro documentation.. where can I find out how to do this?
06:48 <@rizen> wiki
06:49 <+Radix-wrk> I haven't been able to find it using search at all
06:49 <+Radix-wrk> umm.. not creating a macro
06:49 <+Radix-wrk> I mean documenting a macro I've written - ie help files I guess
06:53 <@rizen> http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/macro-development-tutorial
06:53 <@rizen> oh
06:54 <@rizen> http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/the-help-system
06:55 <+Radix-wrk> Hmm.. that works for macros as well as assets?
06:55 <@rizen> anything you want to put in the help
06:55 <@rizen> http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/internationalization
06:55 <+Radix-wrk> k.. I guess I can use an existing one as a basis.. cheers :)
06:55 <+Radix-wrk> no text in this macro, but four parameters - three optional which I wanted to document somewhere other than in the code ;)
06:56 <@rizen> yeah, but you need to use i18n in order to build help
06:56 <@rizen> they are linked
06:56 <+Radix-wrk> Working on my first entry for the macro contest :)
06:56 <+Radix-wrk> k
06:56 <+Radix-wrk> cheers
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15:56 < SDuensin> Good morning.
15:56 < ckotil> good morning
15:57 < SDuensin> Hey ckotil 
15:58 < ckotil> i tried to install mysql5 via rpms on a RHEL AS4 machine. didnt go so well
15:58 < ckotil> had to back it out and go back to 4
15:58 < ckotil> so today im gonna attempt it again
15:58 < ckotil> w/ pre compiled non rpms
15:58 < ckotil> then if that doesnt cut it, ill do it from source
15:58 < ckotil> i want to get the db local.
16:00  * SDuensin isn't a big RPM fan.
16:00 < ckotil> currently its a couple RU's away
16:00 < ckotil> they're nice most of the time
16:00 < ckotil> very fast and clean
16:00 < ckotil> even the init script screwed up w/ the mysql5 isntall
16:01 < ckotil> i should email mysql and let them know.
16:11 < pjesi> is it possible to run the sql migration scripts manually?
16:11 < AMH_bob> Good morning!
16:11 < pjesi> I have the latest sources but the db is not in sync
16:11 < pjesi> good morning!
16:13 < ckotil> dunno
16:14 < pjesi> the CS breaks due to different table structure
16:14 <+Radix_> why via rpm's?
16:14 <+Radix_> why not use yum?
16:14 < SDuensin> Hey AMH_bob, pjesi, Radix_ 
16:15 <+Radix_> Hi SD
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17:19 <@rizen> AMH_bob. How's your project coming along?
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17:35 <@khenn> anyone seen MHG today?
17:35 < ckotil> nope
17:39 < pjesi> rizen: any hints on how to run the sql migration scripts *after* WG has been updated?
17:40 <@rizen> what sql migration scripts?
17:41 < pjesi> which should be execute by the upgrade scripts
17:41 < pjesi> somehow they did not work when I upgraded from 7.3.12 to .18
17:43 <@rizen> if they somehow didn't work, then you need to start over and make them work
17:43 <@rizen> you can't retroactively apply them, you never know what bad stuff might happen
17:44 < AMH_bob> Hi Rizen; the project is going fine... we were all in Amsterdam yesterday, hoping to catch you in person or on a video(conference).
17:44 < AMH_bob> But Amsterdam is never a disappointment :P
17:45 < pjesi> ok
17:45 <@rizen> apparently i was supposed to be speaking there, however, no one told me until yesterday that i was speaking there
17:46 <@rizen> methinks the organizers of said conference are not very organized
17:47 <@rizen> i offered to come in person back in january, but was told not to because they weren't even sure they were doing a conference
17:51 < AMH_bob> No problem, the day wasn't a compleet bust - I always anjoy a good road trip
17:53 < AMH_bob> I'm pretty sure something will be set up soon by Robert Heessels.
17:57 <@rizen> oh...i've always thought that the bob in AMH_bob = Robert Heessels
17:57 <@rizen> i guess not
17:58 < AMH_bob> Nope, my name is Robert Broen, but Because we already had a Robert, I became... Bob!
17:59 < AMH_bob> Robert Heessels is the managing director, I'm just a humble CMS programmer.
18:00 <@rizen> don't say "just", everyone in an organization is important
18:02 < AMH_bob> :D
18:02 <@rizen> well, everyone except preaction that is
18:02 <@rizen> he's completely replaceable
18:03 < AMH_bob> I just spoke with Robert; In 1 or 2 weeks he's going to call you to tell you more about our plans;
18:03 < AMH_bob> 8-)
18:04 <@preaction> woot! replaceable!
18:04 < AMH_bob> (I should stick up for Ubuntu users like that o:-))
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18:09 < AMH_bob> Until next time.... Goodbye!
18:10 <@rizen> later
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18:35 <+perlDreamer> w00t!
18:35 <+perlDreamer> My laptop isn't broken!
18:36 <@rizen> bring it over, i'll break it
18:36  * perlDreamer trundles back to home go fetch the laptop
18:37 <+perlDreamer> rizen: here's something to occupy you while you're waiting: http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2007/06/mycologist_resources.html
18:39 <+perlDreamer> Besides, there's no point in taking it to Wisonsin, you're supposed to be in Europe yesterday, no?
18:39 <@rizen> are you suggesting that i need more things to do?
18:39 <+perlDreamer> No, just trying to save my laptop =)
18:40 <@preaction> i've got a mycology lab next to my shower
18:41 <+perlDreamer> better next to, than inside.  Or on
19:01 < ckotil> theres a fungus amongus
19:03 <@preaction> i'm a fun guy
19:25 <+perlDreamer> Hard to tell if the ensuing silence was due to the pun, or just standard channel lull
19:32 < ckotil> standard lull
20:25 <+perlDreamer> Are we supposed to backport all bug fixes from 7.4 to 7.3 Branch?
20:29 <@rizen> yes
20:30 <@rizen> if they are backportable
21:08 < ckotil> you ever see this while running the testEnvironment.pl? a
21:08 < ckotil> Verifying database connection: perl: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5/i386-linux-thread-multi/auto/DBD/mysql/mysql.so: undefined symbol: DBIc_TRACE_LEVEL
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21:23 <+perlDreamer> ckotil: That's comming out of perl and mysql, not out of WebGUI.  Sounds like a bad compile of mysql.xs
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21:35 < ckotil> yeah.
21:35  * ckotil shakes fist at mysql dev's
21:36 < ckotil> they put out bad rpms AND compiled binaries
21:36 < ckotil> im just gonna have to wait to upgrade the webserver to RHEL5
21:36 < ckotil> that comes with mysql5
21:38 <+perlDreamer> silly question.  JT uses RHEL4, why not do that?
21:39 < ckotil> i hit that roadblock ^^ when trying to go from mysql4 to 5
21:39 < ckotil> on RHEL4
21:40 <+perlDreamer> use the WRE?
21:40 < ckotil> no, already have webgui from source installed. and running
21:40 < ckotil> its using a remote db
21:40 < ckotil> this is my production machine.
21:41 < ckotil> next step would be for me to build mysql5 from source. but i decided to wait to upgrade to rhel5
21:41 < ckotil> we built mysql5 from source on our db machine.
21:41 < ckotil> it runs rhel4
21:42 <+perlDreamer> build the WRE on it, too, but only use the MYSQL component
21:42 <+perlDreamer> lunch date with wife, be back later!
21:43 < ckotil> ill bet $5 the wre wont build on it ;)
21:43 < ckotil> pz
21:43 < ckotil> always fails at lftp
21:57 < professorfrink_> i've been trying to build a dataform in 7.3.18 and i'm having trouble getting it to export properly - 
21:58 < professorfrink_> i set up a field with multiple checkbox values, and when i export tab delimited, the values get pushed into other fields
21:58 < professorfrink_> i'm viewing it as a .ods spreadsheet
21:59 < professorfrink_> it seems to display correctly when i list all entries, and if i view it with a text editor
22:08 <@preaction> can you pastebin a sample?
22:20 < professorfrink_> actually, i think i figured it out - openoffice and neooffice use the semicolon as a separator, pushing the values to the next column
22:20 < professorfrink_> excel doesn't do that, and since everyone who's going to be checking it is going to be using excel, i'm not going to sweat it
22:21 < professorfrink_> but that's an FYI, i guess, for those of us who refuse to use microsoft...
22:21 < professorfrink_> thanks!
22:21 <@rizen> actually you can get oo to use a comma
22:21 <@rizen> you just have to tell it that in advance
22:22 < professorfrink_> mm, good point
22:22 < professorfrink_> yea
22:22 < professorfrink_> i didn't set the import filter correctly
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23:15 <+perlDreamer> whoa!
23:15 <+perlDreamer> new people in the room
23:15 <+perlDreamer> Who let that happen?
23:16 < ckotil> going for a new World Record
23:18 <+perlDreamer> Having a weird sense of deja vu, ckotil.  Why not use the precompilied WRE binaries?
23:18 <+perlDreamer> to get past the lftp compile problem?
23:24 < ckotil> i had a problem with those too.
23:25 < ckotil> im happy with running it from source.
23:25 < ckotil> sure setup takes a while.
23:25 < ckotil> but ive gotten it down to half a day
23:26 < ckotil> plus im running RH5 mostly now.
23:26 < ckotil> theres no RH5 precompiled binary yet
--- Day changed Wed Jun 13 2007
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07:58 <@preaction> i need a new house, with A/C so my darn computers don't die from the heat...
08:33 <@rizen> or just buy a window air conditioner for a few hundred bucks
08:38 <@preaction> it may work, it may not. most of the problem comes from the large sheet of black rubber next to my windows and screen door (the roof of the garage next to me). it basically bakes this tiny apartment
08:38 <@preaction> it will work, it just might cost a bunch in energy
08:51 <@rizen> got a river or lake near your house? run a hose to it and a radiator in your appartment
08:51 <@rizen> you'll freeze yourself out
08:52 <+Radix-wrk> cheaper way is to just use fans and get some circulation going
08:53 <+Radix-wrk> or yeah, get a split system aircon
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10:17 <+Radix-wrk> Rizen: Cache errors with webgui.org - I log in and get - "Hello Meatbop. Click here to log out.     You have 2010 karma to spend.    Turn Admin Off!" and full admin control
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14:23 < nuba> heh
14:25 < AMH_bob> ha
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15:55 < SDuensin> Greetings.
15:56 <@preaction> mornings
15:57 < SDuensin> Hi preaction 
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16:05 <@rizen> radix, you still here?
16:07 < AMH_bob> Good morning
16:07 <@rizen> good morning
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16:19 < preaction_> hmm full dance guard in today
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16:29 <+Radix_> rizen: yeah, just about to head off to bed
16:29 <@rizen> before you go, could you please explain the circumstances around your cache problem
16:29 <@rizen> i need to know if you were physically logged in
16:29 <@rizen> or if it was just a cache problem
16:30 <+Radix_> All I did was pop webgui.org into firefox
16:30 <+Radix_> I hadn't been to the site at all that day
16:30 <@rizen> could you continue browsing the site as the other person?
16:30 <+Radix_> I didn't stay as meatbop for long
16:30 <+Radix_> but I did try turning admin off and that worked
16:30 <@rizen> more than one page?
16:30 <+Radix_> still showed meatbop and his karma
16:30 <@rizen> did you click "log out"
16:31 <+Radix_> yeah
16:31 <+Radix_> then logged in as me
16:31 <@rizen> and after hitting turn admin off you could sttill see his name?
16:31 <+Radix_> it loaded in full admin mode tho
16:31 <+Radix_> yeah
16:31 <@rizen> wtf
16:32 <@rizen> this time when you went to the site you went directly there
16:32 <@rizen> ?
16:32 <@rizen> via typing url into browser?
16:32 <+Radix_> yup, just typed webgui.org and went straight there
16:32 <@rizen> and the last time you went there?
16:32 <@rizen> did you go via plainblack.com
16:32 <@rizen> ?
16:32 <+Radix_> yesterday sometime I think
16:32 <@rizen> clicking on the icon in the upper right corner?
16:33 <+Radix_> I usually have a shortcut for plainblack.com/discuss that I use
16:33 <@rizen> so then you were automatically redirected to webgui.org when you used that bookmark
16:34 <@rizen> are you sure you used that bookmark?
16:34 <+Radix_> I didn't use that bookmark today
16:34 <@rizen> no
16:34 <@rizen> the last time you went to webgui.org
16:34 <+Radix_> yes, I used it last time
16:34 <@rizen> ok
16:34 <@rizen> hmmm...well i'll have to figure it out
16:35 <@rizen> unfortunately nothing you've told me gives me any cluse
16:35 <@rizen> clues
16:35 <+Radix_> sorry
16:35 <@rizen> not your fault
16:35 <+Radix_> if it happens again, what should I do?
16:35 <@rizen> leave yourself logged in and email me
16:35 <@rizen> i'll take a look and see what i can see
16:36 <@rizen> i can't imagine how it would happen
16:36 <+Radix_> there was a cache bug submitted recently I saw
16:37 <@rizen> yeah, but that's not actually a bug, and it only had to do with visitors
16:38 <+Radix_> okey.. well I'll leave it in your hands
16:38 <@rizen> thanks...sleep well
16:38 <+Radix_> if it happens again I'll let ya know :)
16:38 <@rizen> it better not happen again
16:39 <+Radix_> I've had some funny stuff since the new site tho.. logged in on one page, then logged out on another, etc
16:39 <+Radix_> never been logged in as someone else tho
16:39 <+Radix_> anyhow.. I'm off to bed.. nite :)
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18:34 <@khenn> MrHairgrease:  I have a question for you about the SQL Form
18:34 <@khenn> specifically, what is archiving and what causes it?
18:34 <+MrHairgrease> shoot
18:34 <@rizen> don't answer him
18:34 <+MrHairgrease> ok
18:34 <@rizen> he's tryying to pull a fast one on you
18:34 <+MrHairgrease> figure it out yourself =)
18:34 <@rizen> hehe
18:34 <@rizen> ok i suppose you can answer him
18:34 <@rizen> just be careful
18:34 <@rizen> frank has shifty eyes
18:34 <@khenn> it appears that it only happens when you get a new revision of a row of data
18:34 <@khenn> I hate you JT
18:34 <+MrHairgrease> the archive bit says that that version of the record is not the newest
18:35 <@khenn> DIAF
18:35 <@khenn> =p
18:35 <@khenn> I thought so
18:35 <@khenn> thanks
18:35 <+MrHairgrease> np
18:35 <@khenn> I think there's a problem with the SQL Form fyi
18:35 <@khenn> I'm going to confirm
18:35 <@khenn> but I think the query can backfire
18:36 <@khenn> you do a "select distinct(xxx), xxx, xxx, xxx from xxx
18:36 <@khenn> and I think it may, in some cases, grab the archived record
18:37 <@khenn> even if it has a more recent version
18:37 <+MrHairgrease> could be
18:37 <+MrHairgrease> but that is not what it should do
18:37 <@khenn> I'll try to reproduce it
18:37 <+MrHairgrease> ok
19:32 < ckotil> wheres the dev  section now with the new sites?
19:32 < ckotil> im looking for the api docs
19:32 < ckotil> nvm
19:32 < ckotil> www.plainblack.com/dev
19:33 < ckotil> doh. that doesnt appear to be it either
19:33 <@rizen> everything dev related was moved into the wiki
19:33 < ckotil> k
19:33 < ckotil> should redirect plainblack.com/dev to the wiki
19:34 <@rizen> fuck the fucking fuckers
19:35 < ckotil> righton , such a versatile word
19:36 <@rizen> indeed
19:42 <@rizen> there, it's redirected. are you happy now?
19:42 <@rizen> =)
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22:17 < wgGuest58> I'm contemplating using WebGUI to run our intranet.  Folks routinely drag files to folders on our shared drives.  I think getting them to use the webGUI interface to save folder will be too much so I plan to just use links on the pages to the folders.  Is this pretty straight forward?  the demo version had some defaults that wouldn't let me do this.
22:19 <@rizen> yes you can do that
22:19 <@rizen> and it's relatively easy to do...if i understand you correctly
22:19 <@rizen> i think there's also either a macro or an asset
22:19 <@rizen> in the add ons section
22:19 <@rizen> that will read a list of files
22:20 <@rizen> in a folder
22:20 <@rizen> and display links to them in an automated fashion
22:20 <@rizen> if i'm wrong, it would be pretty trivial to create such an animal
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22:21 < wgGuest58> I suspected as much - thanks for the confirmation.  Just to be clear, you say it would
22:21 < wgGuest58> be pretty easy to have a macro have the website reflect what's in the folders?
22:21 < ckotil> yes.
22:22 < wgGuest58> thanks for the help.
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22:22 < ckotil> haha, he's from dslindiana
22:22 < ckotil> didnt know there was such a thing
22:24 <@rizen> must be a regional thing
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22:33 < ckotil> they're based in indianapolis
22:33 < ckotil> interesing new workflow modes!
22:34 <@rizen> what's interesting about them?
22:34 <@rizen> btw...have you started checking in your triggers yet?
22:34 < ckotil> not sure yet. about to read the floating help screen to see whats new
22:34 < ckotil> no, i havent had time to work on them.
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22:35 <@rizen> can you let me know if you don't think you'll get them done by the first week of july?
22:35 <@rizen> i need them to be in 7.4, so i'll have to do it if you can't
22:35 < ckotil> ill squeeze them in before then
22:35 <@rizen> k
22:35 < ckotil> ill keep  you posted.
22:35 <@rizen> thanks
22:35 < ckotil> np
22:36 < ckotil> hrm floating help is too long, it gets hidden by the top of the screen. and  i have a fairly high resolution
22:37 <@rizen> i'll have to check that out and shorten it then
22:37 < ckotil> ya
22:37 <@rizen> i was sure i tested that before
22:37 <@rizen> what browser are you using?
22:37 < ckotil> ff mac
22:37 < ckotil> i can try it in ie too
22:37 < ckotil> ie7*
22:38 < ckotil> and ff windows while im at it
22:39 < ckotil> ya its an issue in ff mac/windows, and IE7
22:39 <@rizen> starting up my 7.4 install so i can look
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22:40 <@rizen> yikes
22:40 <@rizen> i guess i was a bit verbose
22:40 < ckotil> heh
22:40 < ckotil> yeah, how bout 1 -v instead of vvvvvvv
22:41 <@rizen> yeah jt, this is a help pop up not a book
22:41 <@rizen> =)
22:43 < ckotil> im trying to get pending version feedback working. i.e. after approving/denying a pending tag , i want to take my users to the manage pending version tag screen. so far ive been unsuccessful in 7.3.18, so im trying it in 7.4
22:43 < ckotil> graham has been working with me. he claims to have gotten it to work. i keep getting the insufficient credientials screen.
22:44 <@rizen> have you tried tripple clicking?
22:45 < ckotil> I have.
22:45 < ckotil> it works fine
22:45 < ckotil> my users however cannot
22:45 < ckotil> its total bullshit
22:45 < ckotil> they want me to write a script to list out all the pending version tags if i cannot get webgui to play nicely. (i know it will eventually)
22:45 < ckotil> but jeezus, they are so needy!
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22:47 < ckotil> i blame myself. you give them an inch and they take a mile
22:48 <@rizen> i don't know exactly what you're trying to do but if i do understand it, then it sounds trivial
22:49 <@rizen> and if graham made it work quickly you could just ask him for the code to do it
22:49 < ckotil> it does seem trivial
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22:50 < ckotil> and while i havent seen his code yet, it was only a couple lines that were edited. and really they were just substituted
22:50 < ckotil> which is making me think some other modification i made is screwing it up.
22:52 <@rizen> you should just ask him for the code
22:53 < ckotil> i will.
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22:56 <@rizen> there, i have decreased my verbosity
22:56 <@rizen> and still got the message across
22:56 < ckotil> cool
22:57 <@rizen> technically there is only one new mode
22:57 <@rizen> it's just that i gave functionality that was already there a name
22:58 <@rizen> parallel, singleton, and serial modes already existed, they just weren't as neatly specified
22:59 < ckotil> ya, i like it.
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23:44 < ckotil> http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-9729116-7.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-5
23:44 < ckotil> nooo!!
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--- Day changed Thu Jun 14 2007
00:04 <@rizen> are you telling me you don't already have an itunes account?
00:04 < ckotil> correct.
00:05 <@rizen> what kind of lame @$$ #&*#&$*# #&#& #&$*$(&@^&*$ &*# # doesn't have at least one ipod and an itunes account
00:05 <@rizen> o did i say that out loud
00:05 <@rizen> sorry
00:05 <@rizen> retract previous statement
00:05 < ckotil> i guess me
00:05 < ckotil> i dont have an ipod either
00:05 < ckotil> and i assumed iphone had gps...it doesnt.
00:05 <@rizen> do you have an mp3 player?
00:05 < ckotil> i used to have an archos jbmm20
00:05 <@rizen> iphone has gps
00:06 < ckotil> it left a sour taste in my mouth.
00:06 < ckotil> you sure?
00:06 < ckotil> ive read it doesnt.
00:06 <@rizen> i don't know if it has "gps capabilities" but all phones have gps
00:06 <@rizen> it's the law
00:06 < ckotil> well yeah.
00:06 < ckotil> fcc requires it.
00:07 < ckotil> maybe it will use  gps from the tower.
00:09 < ckotil> im just getting cold feet.
00:17 <@rizen> there are many reasons not to buy it
00:17 <@rizen> no third party apps, expensive, no gps
00:17 <@rizen> but there are also lots of reasons to buy it
00:18 <@rizen> one device that does it all, it's cool, it "just works", it does most everything you'd need without third party apps
00:19 <@rizen> i'm going to use mine as a laptop replacement
00:19 <@rizen> almost everywhere i go i take my laptop, for example, to perl mongers meetings
00:19 <@rizen> but i don't actually use my laptop there for anything that the iphone can't do
00:19 <@rizen> i also take my ipod and my digital camera with me
00:20 < ckotil> third part support was confirmed.
00:20 <@rizen> i'll use digital camera on the phone to take pictures, record the audio track using the ipod on the phone, and use the built in web browser if i need to look something up, or bookmark something
00:21 <@rizen> the only third party support you have are web browser apps
00:21 <@rizen> not real apps
00:21 < ckotil> ugh
00:21 <@rizen> granted, web browser apps are pretty cool
00:21 < ckotil> well, thats better than nothin.
00:21 < ckotil> javascript enabled, safari aps
00:21 <@rizen> and they do integrate with the phone
00:21 <@rizen> so you can touch a phone number and it will start a call
00:21 <@rizen> etc
00:21 <@rizen> but yeah, you can't install anything on the phone
00:22 < ckotil> gotcha.
00:22 < ckotil> it will be cool to look up a number via online yellow pages and hit call.
00:22 <@rizen> i think it's because they want everyone to have a "perfect'" experience with the phone...without other apps to slow it down or make it crash
00:22 <@rizen> yeah..that's the thing they demo'd at the conference this week
00:23 <@rizen> they built a web interface to the ldap repo at apple
00:23 <@rizen> and then you could see people's photos, managers, phone numbers, email addresses, and physical addresses
00:23 < ckotil> not to shabby
00:23 <@rizen> and clicking on email addresses and phone numbers did the right thing
00:24 <@rizen> it's cool for sure...but you can't integrate to the camera with that
00:24 <@rizen> or any of the other hardware components
00:25 <@rizen> so i guess it's only "half" cool from that perspective
00:25 <@rizen> but still...the phone is amazing as far as i'm concerned. way better than the phone i have now
00:25 <@rizen> and like i said...when i go places, i no longer have to bring laptop + phone + ipod + camera
00:26 < ckotil> yah, thats the big selling point for me
00:26 <@rizen> honestly the only app i wish it had that it doesn't is ssh
00:26 <@rizen> so if i absolutely had to, i could fix a server from my phone
00:27 < ckotil> no doubt.
00:27 < ckotil> thatd be a god send.
00:27 < ckotil> i hope to have something like that SOON.
00:27 < ckotil> before i move out west , for when im on the slopes skiing and a server goes down
00:28  * ckotil sighs
00:28 < ckotil> some day..
00:29 < ckotil> its about that time. heading home.
00:29 <@rizen> later
01:03 <+perlDreamer> ckotil, found a thread that might interest you...
01:03 <+perlDreamer> http://www.webgui.org/etcetera/wrebuild-error-on-lftp/re-wrebuild-error-on-lftp#idAtUdPPvxrg4jUdkrNgys-g
01:03 <+perlDreamer> these guys had lftp build problems.  They needed a new ncurses-dev
01:19 <+perlDreamer> bug fix pending...
02:00 <+perlDreamer> rizen: I've just finalized my bug fix for this one:
02:00 <+perlDreamer> http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/uploaded-file-sizes-wrong#8ao9yNQrxFyJNTUaU7ARPA
02:00 <+perlDreamer> I now need to write a script to fix all the borken assets in the db with the wrong size
02:00 <+perlDreamer> should I update or commit changes like that?
02:09 <+perlDreamer> The upgrade script could run for a long time, since it needs to iterate over all File and Image assets.
02:09 <+perlDreamer> --bug
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02:39 <+Radix_> pfft.. my windows mobile phone can do everything that the iphone does.. AND it can do ssh ;)
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02:43 < nuba> huh. there's pssh for palm, too
02:44 <+Radix_> yeah, but palm is dead ;)
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03:31 < nuba> well mine is quite alive
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03:51 < nuba> but that's because of pssh, mostly
03:53 < nuba> ie. i never found a mail client for palm better than pine
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05:49 < vayde> Gah!  I just saw an END block inside of a BEGIN block inside of an IF block
05:49  * vayde shudders
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15:05 < pjesi> phew, I managed to fix my mess
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15:33 < SDuensin> Howdy.
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16:11 < AMH_bob> Good morning!
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16:15 < SDuensin> Hey AMH_bob 
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16:33 < AMH_bob> Bake from my break - playing table fussball
16:34 < AMH_bob> eh, back
16:35 < AMH_bob> I'm pumping out production templates right now... about 25 templates in 5 colors each - party time!
16:35 < SDuensin> Fun.
16:35 < AMH_bob> :P
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03:41 < SDuensin> Hmmm...  Interesting...
03:41 < SDuensin> I selected six MP3 files, cut them to the clipboard.  Went to another location in the Asset Manager.  Checked an item, clicked Delete...
03:42 < SDuensin> Went somewhere else in the Asset Manager.  Then I was going to paste the MP3s...   They're gone!  Nowhere to be found!
03:42 < SDuensin> They're not in the trash, not on the clipboard, not in any revisions.
03:42 < SDuensin> I searched the Asset Manager.  Nope.
03:43 < SDuensin> Did a "locate" on the drive.  They're still there.  Ran rebuildLineage for fun.  No dice.
03:43 < nuba> guess webgui now has DRM.. and it blocks people from making copies of mp3 files ;)
03:43 < SDuensin> WTF happened?
03:43  * SDuensin introduces WebGUI to the Creative Commons.  :-)
03:44 < nuba> probably RIAA posted a RFE while no one was looking
03:44 < SDuensin> I can reupload them to WebGUI, but I don't want to confuse it if it thinks they're still out there somewhere.
03:45 <+Radix-wrk> wierd
03:46 <+Radix-wrk> the location you deleted tho..
03:46 <+Radix-wrk> was it the directory where the mp3's were stored?
03:46 < nuba> try a find /data/ -type f -iname "*mp3" to see if you can spot it in the directory tree
03:47 <+Radix-wrk> if you delete the parent - regardless of whether the items were on the clipboard or not, the children are deleted too
03:47 <+Radix-wrk> try checking your trash and system trash
03:48 < SDuensin> Not in the trash.  I don't think they were children.  Maybe though.
03:49 < SDuensin> If I move them out of /data/, should I delete the folders they're in, or will that cause chaos?
03:49 <+Radix-wrk> is the parent item still in the trash?
03:49 <+Radix-wrk> or the item you deleted earlier
03:50 < SDuensin> DOH!  Yes.  I'm an idiot.
03:50 < SDuensin> Thank you.  :-)
03:50 <+Radix-wrk> if so, I'd try restoring that item
03:50 <+Radix-wrk> so the mp3's came back? :)
03:50 < SDuensin> Yes.
03:50 <+Radix-wrk> cool
03:51 <+Radix-wrk> move them - then delete it ;)
03:51 <+Radix-wrk> webgui's copy to clipboard doesn't actually move the files at all - just tags them
03:51 < SDuensin> Good idea.  :-)
03:51 <+Radix-wrk> so if you delete the parent while they're on the clipboard, they go too
03:52 <+Radix-wrk> can be confusing if you're not aware of it I know ;)
03:52 < SDuensin> I knew better.  I've seen other people ask the same thing.
03:53 <+Radix-wrk> Sometimes it takes personal experience to teach a lesson ;)
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15:38 < SDuensin> FRIDAY!
15:53 < ckotil> indeed. and hwat used to be payday
15:54 < ckotil> i got bumped to monthyly salary
15:54 < ckotil> still waiting for my first huge check.
15:55 < SDuensin> Money is good.  :-)
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21:21 <+crythias> ah, yeah. It's me. we can all scatter, now.
21:29 <@rizen> nobody scatters from you, we all scatter to you, and hump your leg like a little puppy
21:29 <@rizen> =)
21:29 <+crythias> I kick y'all off with derision. 
21:29 <+crythias> and wipe the stains from my pant leg.
22:38 <@rizen> FYI, if any of you are coming to the WUC this year, add yourself to the wiki: http://www.plainblack.com/wuc/community
22:38 <@rizen> and and let us know if you want to set up any BOFS http://www.plainblack.com/wuc/wiki/bofs
22:39 <@rizen> so we can make arrangements for rooms to be available
22:40 -!- rizen changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.3.18 | WRE 0.7.2 ] - Come To The WUC http://www.plainblack.com/wuc
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00:16 <+crythias> Interesting. it's not quite clear *when* the wuc is, ... click the schedule, it says, "Day 1" ... Click Hotel it says Rates... Click Registration and you get the badge .. thing.
00:17 <+crythias> ok, well, I meant, if you started on the links ^^^
00:18 <+crythias> If I might make a suggestion, put the dates so they end up in the title of the page.
00:22 <+crythias> oh, and rizen, get off my leg :-P
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00:39 <+perlDreamer> Guys, we need to find a way to get Tina Gasperson to write about WebGUI instead of metadot
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00:44 <+perlDreamer> http://business.newsforge.com/business/07/06/07/207245.shtml?tid=132&tid=3
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01:27 < nuba> getting an error with that url.. >The failure reason is: xarDB_init: Failed to connect to xarmysql://xardba@xaraya-db-2/lc_live1, error message: Too many connections
01:28 < nuba> looks like their Xaraya (just found out its a postnuke fork) setup is broken
01:28 < nuba> just aobut time for them to replace it with WebGUI!!! :)
01:41 <@preaction> postnuke was popular enough to get forks? it was poorly-engineered crap!
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19:00 <@rizen> howdy all
23:04 < diakopter> howdy
23:05 <@rizen> that might be the most delayed howdy in this history of the universe
23:05  * diakopter forks another history of the universe
23:06 <@rizen> if our transaction rate does not increase, we'll be speaking as slow as Ents
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23:56 <+perlDreamer> hoom
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04:07 < cap10morgan> Has anyone ever written a module to allow WebGUI to be an OpenID server? I.e. use the WebGUI auth system to serve OpenIDs for that domain?
05:26  * Radix-wrk googles OpenID to find out what it is.
05:32 <+Radix-wrk> Could be worth USD$5000 to the OS project who implements it according to iwantmyopenid.org
05:32 <+Radix-wrk> http://iwantmyopenid.org/bounty
05:33 < cap10morgan> Radix-wrk: yeah, I saw that. Did you read the requirements? 200,000 users and 5,000 downloads / month. Does WebGUI meet that?
05:34 <+Radix-wrk> no idea
05:38 < cap10morgan> they have lots of popular/crappy CMS's in there
05:38 < cap10morgan> in the list of projects they want to give a bounty for
05:38 < cap10morgan> the big three: Drupal, Joomla, and Plone
05:38 < cap10morgan> actually Plone may not be that bad
05:38 < cap10morgan> I hate Drupal and Joomla
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09:10 <@preaction> cap10morgan: 200,000 end users? 5000 downloads / month? does it count the 400+ plainblack-hosted sites? the sourceforge project averages 150 downloads / day. this isn't to mention the official repo at http://update.webgui.org
09:16 <+Radix-wrk> preaction: http://iwantmyopenid.org/bounty
09:17 <@preaction> i didn't think they were still looking for things after two years
09:18 <+Radix-wrk> 2 years? huh?
09:19 <@preaction> 1 years maybe
09:19 <@preaction> no, this is openID 2.0, they might've offered it for OpenID 1.0 too
09:20 <@preaction> but if you're going to implement openID, why not just go with Yadis?
09:20  * Radix-wrk googles yadis
09:21 <+Radix-wrk> because yadis aren't offering US$5k to implement it?
09:21 <@preaction> but by implementing yadis+openID you get both
09:22 <+Radix-wrk> sure, I guess
09:22 <@preaction> yadis is like an interface layer on top of OpenID/LID
09:23 <@preaction> wait, yadis just describes what interfaces a URL supports
09:23 <+Radix-wrk> preaction: I just went to webgui.org again and I'm logged in as meatbop
09:24 <@preaction> can you access anything?
09:24 <+Radix-wrk> I just hit turn admin on and can now see admin console
09:24 <+Radix-wrk> I went to statistics and can see the full stats for it
09:25 <@preaction> okay, that's bad
09:25 <@preaction> hang on
09:25 <+Radix-wrk> JT asked me to let him know if it happened again
09:25 <+Radix-wrk> this is the second time it's happened
09:25 <+Radix-wrk> Assets:	48303
09:25 <+Radix-wrk> Packages:	11
09:25 <+Radix-wrk> Templates:	364
09:25 <+Radix-wrk> Active Sessions:	186410
09:25 <+Radix-wrk> Users:	8240
09:25 <+Radix-wrk> Groups:	12855
09:27 <+Radix-wrk> my ip should be 203.161.68.67 if you want to see what session I'm in
09:29 <@preaction> i found it, but damned if i know how it happened
09:30 <+Radix-wrk> it's happened twice now, both times I've just typed 'webgui.org' into firefox
09:31 <+Radix-wrk> I'll email JT and just leave the session open for the moment - maybe he can debug it and figure out why
09:31 <@preaction> here's your session id: GmxMBwYIZmgDKuyjUwACAg
09:34 <+Radix-wrk> lol.. taking a screenshot for JT to see, and it's got me as the banner pic - people behind webgui - how poignant!
09:34 <@preaction> lol
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15:57 < SDuensin> Good morning.
16:13 -!- wgGuest17 [n=wgGuest1@69.39.128.166] has joined #webgui
16:14 <@preaction> good morning
16:14 < wgGuest17> I nearly have our IT conviced that we need WebGUI to run our intranet.  His last comment: "how much space does it take up - our servers are limited"  We'll be using the WRE on a windows 2003 server
16:14 < wgGuest17> i downloaded and unzipped it - but I assume installed size is much biggeR?
16:15 <@preaction> WebGUI itself takes about 25M, the WRE takes a bit more (80-100M i think). your site may take lots
16:15 <@preaction> but the overhead for the server is about 100-125M
16:15 <@preaction> (if you're using the WRE, of course)
16:16 < wgGuest17> So 250MB is a safe, over-conservative answer to give him?
16:17 <@preaction> let me verify before i give you inaccurate data
16:19 <@preaction> looks like WRE for windows is only about 75M, so 100M for the server. so 250 should be plenty conservative (Depending on how big you anticipate your site growing)
16:20 < wgGuest17> Thanks a ton.  Once I get it going, I have a few custom ideas so I'll definitely be in touch.  Thanks, Greg  gfulk@paragoncompanies.com
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16:20 <@preaction> good way to start monday: another convert to the cause
16:22 < SDuensin> :-)
16:24 <@preaction> offset by bad way to start monday: after working nearly 96 hours straight I'm not done with my project due in 30 minutes :p
16:25 < SDuensin> Well, quit screwing around here and get to work!
16:35 <@preaction> I bestow upon you the time-waster of all time-wasters: http://www.handdrawngames.com/DesktopTD/
16:36 < SDuensin> Noooo!
17:00 < AMH_bob> :P I'll try that one at 5 pm
17:01 < AMH_bob> Goof morning!
17:15 < SDuensin> Goof indeed.
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03:57 <+Radix-wrk> rizen: you around?
03:57 <@rizen> nope
03:57 <+Radix-wrk> I'm still logged in as meatbop if you're interested
03:57 <@rizen> i never logged you out
03:57 <@rizen> i emailed you some questions
03:58 <+Radix-wrk> all I did was type in 'webgui.org' in firefox's address bar
03:58 <@rizen> i think i know what caused this
03:58 <+Radix-wrk> oh?
04:00 <@rizen> see if you're still logged in as meatbop
04:00 <+Radix-wrk> nup
04:01 <+Radix-wrk> logged me out as soon as I clicked on a link
04:01 <+Radix-wrk> what was it then?
04:02 <@rizen> at one point we had our single sign on stuff going through snippets which were set to cache
04:02 <@rizen> so you picked up steve's sessionId
04:02 <@rizen> then steve never logged out, so his sessionId never went away
04:02 <@rizen> and you got his cookie
04:02 <+Radix-wrk> Ahh k
04:02  * Radix-wrk ate his cookie.
04:03 <+Radix-wrk> Cool.. well glad I found it and not a random visitor.
04:03 <@rizen> me too
04:06 <+Radix-wrk> did you like the screenshot I sent btw.. I thought it rather poignant that the banner of me was there 'people behind webgui' indeed ;)
04:06 <@rizen> honestly didn't notice that part
04:07 <+Radix-wrk> hehe
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16:02 < ckotil> will the calendar asset output an ics file
16:02 < ckotil> ?
16:02 < ckotil> for me to download.
16:16 < SDuensin> Good morning!
18:00 <@preaction> ckotil: yes, ?func=ical
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22:29 < perlmonkey2> Rizen you there?
22:29 <@rizen> yup
22:30 <@rizen> how's the survey coming?
22:30 < perlmonkey2> I'm thinking of taking all of next week off to work on the survey.
22:30 <@rizen> sweet
22:30 < perlmonkey2> Has anything changed?
22:30 <@rizen> nope
22:30 <@rizen> oh, except i have a deadline for 7.4
22:30 <@rizen> we'll be putting out the first beta on Monday July 23.
22:31 <@rizen> All checkins will be due July 21.
22:31 < perlmonkey2> I should be able to make that.
22:42  * SDuensin is waiting for 7.3.19.  :-P
22:42 <@rizen> never going to happen
22:42 <@rizen> just kidding
22:42 <@rizen> it will either be out this week or next
22:43 < SDuensin> All my podcasts are 300 bytes long!
22:43 <@rizen> is that a bug in webgui?
22:43 <@rizen> and has it been fixed in 7.3.19?
22:43 < SDuensin> Yep.  And yep.
22:44 < SDuensin> You upload to a folder asset and it reports everything correctly.  Then you commit the tag and the size changes to 300 or so bytes.
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00:03 < ckotil> preaction: cool. mines not working...im almost certain that its due to malformed ics file
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01:36 < cap10morgan> Has anyone gotten the WRE to compile on an x86_64 machine?
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03:47 <+Radix_> cap10morgan: no, but I managed to use the wre rhel4 binary on an x86-64 machine - just needed some extra libraries and a bit of tweaking
03:52 < cap10morgan> Radix_: yeah, may have to give that a try...
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15:46 < SDuensin> Good morning!
16:02 < ckotil> Hi.
16:03 < ckotil> Im driving up to indianapolis today to install windows server 2003 w/ terminal services..yay!
16:03 < SDuensin> Oh yea.  THAT sounds fun.  :-P
16:04 < ckotil> yeah. shouldnt be too bad.
16:04 < ckotil> ive never done it, but im pretty certain its point n click
16:06 < ckotil> heading out. have a good day
16:06 < SDuensin> It's Windows.  What could _possibly_ go wrong?  :-)
16:06 < SDuensin> Later bud!
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21:37 <@preaction> rizen_: have you frozen for release of 7.3.19 yet?
21:37 < rizen_> nope...it's going out next wednesday instead of today
21:37 <@preaction> ok, thanks
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23:15 <@preaction> how can I edit the URL of a branch? i deployed a package but now I want the sub-assets to take on the url of their parent? will edit branch do this? i've heard conflicting stories about how to accomplish this
23:16 <@rizen> yes
23:16 <@rizen> edit branch will do it
23:16 <@rizen> however, right now edit branch is kind of dangerous if you need to do it on thousands of assets at once
23:16 <@rizen> because it will start the process
23:16 <@rizen> and then apache will time out
23:16 <@preaction> just a dozen or so, so it should be fine
23:17 <@rizen> we need to change edit branch to spew back it's results like the export function does
23:17 <@rizen> Anybody out there worked with perl IO::Socket?
23:17 <@rizen> i need help trying to figure out how to flush a buffer
23:17 <@rizen> i want to do:
23:17 <@rizen> print $socket "this";
23:17 <@rizen> sleep 4;
23:18 <@rizen> print $socket "that";
23:18 <@rizen> the problem is that my content seems to be getting trapped in a buffer
23:18 <@preaction> $io->autoflush(1); i believe
23:18 <@rizen> it's not getting sent until the entire connection closes
23:18 <@preaction> i think that's a part of the IO::Handle superclass
23:19 <@rizen> the IO::Socket documentation says that autoflush is turned on by default
23:19 <@rizen> but i'll give that a try
23:19 <@rizen> i'm desperate
23:29 <@rizen> nevermind....safari is a pile of shit
23:30 <@rizen> doing:   select $socket; $|=1; works in all browsers except safari
23:33 <@preaction> maybe safari itself is buffering
23:34 <@rizen> that's what appears to be happening
23:35 <@rizen> i thought that died with netscape 4
23:36 < nuba> just found theres yet another wysiwyg editor http://xinha.python-hosting.com/wiki/Examples
23:37 < nuba> i just noticed fastmail.fm allows you to choose between fckeditor, htmlarea and xinha
23:38 < nuba> so if its in the same league, i figured you may like to know it exists, if you dont already
23:39 <@rizen> unless it somehow surpasses TinyMCE, don't really care. we do too much tight integration with the rich editor to do it for multiple rich editors
23:39 <@preaction> looks like it works a lot like the TinyMCE
23:42 < nuba> yeah, well, its not like im suggesting to replace the current one with it, i've only mentioned it cause it made a bleep in the radar
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03:31 < cap10morgan> what's the best way to login a user via the API, regardless of the auth method they use?
03:31 < cap10morgan> WebGUI::Auth::authenticate?
03:42 < rizen_> its actually even easier than that
03:43 < rizen_> $session->user({userId=>$id});
03:43 < rizen_> that's it
03:43 < rizen_> or if you already have a user object you can do
03:43 < rizen_> $session->user({user=>$obj});
03:44 < cap10morgan> is there a way to actually authenticate them too? I'm trying to piggyback another login system on top of WebGUI
03:46 < rizen_> that's what i'm saying....you authenticate them using whatever method you want
03:46 < rizen_> and then once authenticated you use the thing i said above
03:47 < rizen_> oh...wait
03:47 < cap10morgan> i want them to enter their webgui username and password, then i want to ask webgui if that's right or not
03:47 < rizen_> i see now
03:47 < rizen_> sorry
03:47 < rizen_> wasn't getting that
03:47 < cap10morgan> no worries, i wasn't very clear
03:48 < rizen_> yes use WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI::authenticate
03:49 < cap10morgan> i need to go straight to the particular auth method?
03:49 < cap10morgan> i think that's ok as i don't have any ldap users currently, but was wondering if i could future proof it a little
03:49 < rizen_> yes...because the base auth method doesn't do passwords
03:49 < cap10morgan> gotcha
03:49 < cap10morgan> i guess i could try both in sequence if i really wanted to support both methods
03:49 <@preaction> or string eval
03:50 < rizen_> use the logic in WebGUI::Operation::Auth to autoload the proper module
03:50 <@preaction> or maybe WebGUI::Auth::$authType::authenticate would actually work
03:50 < rizen_> no, WebGUI::Auth is OO
03:51 < rizen_> so you have to create an object first
03:51 < rizen_> then do $obj->authenticate
03:51 < rizen_> there's a subroutine in WebGUI::Operation::Auth called getInstance that will load the proper auth module for you
03:51 < rizen_> automagically
03:52 < cap10morgan> hey that's pretty slick
03:52 < cap10morgan> i'll use that
03:52 < rizen_> exit
03:52 < rizen_> oops...wrong terminal
03:52 < rizen_> =)
03:52 < cap10morgan> hehe :)
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04:03 < cap10morgan> is there a way to get a user object when you just have a username and password?
04:03 < cap10morgan> I see methods for userId and email, but not the username
04:04 <@rizen> no, but there should be
04:04 <@rizen> it's lame that we don't have that right now
04:12 < cap10morgan> so if i submit a patch, that could end up in 7.3.19? :)
04:13 <@rizen> nope
04:13 <@rizen> it's an api change
04:13 <@rizen> so it would make it into 7.4.0
04:13 <@rizen> but not 7.3.19
04:13 < cap10morgan> oh, ok
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11:57 < xdanger> rizen: I have a client how wants to add the mailing-list functionality to their CS, but they only have imap4s and pop3s access to their mailserver. Do you have any ideas on how I could make that possible?
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16:07 < SDuensin> Good morning.
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16:45 < AMH_bob> Good morning!
17:10 < SDuensin> Hey AMH_bob 
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17:48 <@rizen> howdy
18:03 <@preaction> by default assets inherit the security properties (groupIdView, groupIdEdit) of their parent, correct? without me having to explicitly do that in processPropertiesFromFormPost()?
18:03 <@rizen> yes
18:04 <@rizen> i should say that they do it on the www_add method...that way the user has a chance to override that behavior before hitting safe
18:04 <@rizen> save
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03:24 < wgGuest66> Hi All
03:25 <@rizen> howdy
03:26 < wgGuest66> I had a question that I hoped someone would have an answer to...Is WebGUI able to be an CMS with an ecommerce solution for small businesses online???
03:27 <@rizen> yup...lots of webgui sites sell products, services, and subscriptions
03:27 <@rizen> including plainblack.com
03:27 <@rizen> the Content Manager's Guide shows you how to set up a store
03:29 < wgGuest66> The reason I ask is that ValueCMS hosting gives suitability criteria, and this is what their site says: 
03:30 < wgGuest66> It won't paste...I dislike java sometimes
03:30 <@preaction> paste the link perhaps?
03:30 <@rizen> sure
03:30 <@rizen> let me just go look at their site
03:30 < wgGuest66> okay thanks
03:31 <@rizen> http://www.valuecms.com/is_it_suitable_for_me
03:31 < wgGuest66> yes that is it
03:31 < wgGuest66> I still couldn't paste it
03:31 <@rizen> I'm not using the java IRC client
03:31 <@rizen> i'm connected directly
03:32 <@rizen> anyway...the reason their site says that is because they host WebGUI 5
03:32 <@rizen> but most of the world runs WebGUI 7
03:32 < wgGuest66> okay thanks for the fast response
03:32 <@rizen> they're a few years behind on upgrades
03:32 < wgGuest66> So it is not accurate
03:33 <@rizen> it is accurate for WebGUI 5
03:33 <@rizen> but not for WebGUI 7
03:33 < wgGuest66> I see
03:33 < wgGuest66> Okay
03:33 < wgGuest66> So as far as hosting goes they would not be a good choice
03:33 < wgGuest66> Obviously
03:33 <@rizen> Not if you want ecommerce
03:34 < wgGuest66> Any suggestions outside of PlainBlack hosting
03:35 <@rizen> since i work for plain black not really
03:35 <@rizen> can't bite the hand that feeds
03:35 < wgGuest66> That is okay Thanks...I just wanted something a little less expensive
03:35 < wgGuest66> with support
03:36 <@preaction> it seems that most of the top sites on google for "webgui hosting" are running ancient versions :(
03:36 <@preaction> geekuprising, valuecms, cybersalad
03:37 < wgGuest66> cybersalad did say they would install whatever version of WebGUI you wanted to install, so there is hope, but I still have to check out support
03:38 <@rizen> sorry. i know we're not the cheapest hosting service around, but we are the best.
03:38 < wgGuest66> Thanks Rizen for your help in understanding the dilemma I was having
03:38 <@rizen> if  you find a good hoster you could add it to this list: http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/hosters
03:39 <@preaction> cybersalad's shared hostings says it runs under suexec, this means that the mod_perl-only versions will not work unless you get a dedicated host from them
03:39 <@rizen> we're the only one's listed in north america currentlyy
03:39 <@preaction> i don't know when ecommerce was added, if it was before or after CGI was removed
03:40 <@rizen> after
03:40 <@preaction> that'd be a problem
03:40 < wgGuest66> Rizen what kind of turn around from a support ticket does your company have?
03:40 <@rizen> WebGUI 5.5 was the last version you could reliably run on cgi
03:41 <@rizen> web support tickets posted during business hours are generally answered in 2 hours or less
03:41 < wgGuest66> Good response time
03:41 <@rizen> it gets better as you go up the scale...but price does too
03:42 <@rizen> phone support is usually answered immediately, or at most in less than 1 hour
03:44 < wgGuest66> I have a VDS hosting provider now, and they are running FreeBSD virtual servers, is there any documentation on setting up with this config
03:46 < wgGuest66> I tried today and I have all the requirements, but I am more Linux literate than BSD, so it is half done
03:46 <@rizen> there's no special documentation unless someone has put something in the wiki
03:46 <@rizen> but i can tell you that on FreeBSD you have to install GraphicsMagick in place of ImageMagick
03:47 <@rizen> and change a couple of files in WebGUI, cuz FreeBSD doesn't like ImageMagick for some reason
03:47 <@rizen> it creates seg faults
03:47 <@rizen> because of this starting with WebGUI 7.4 we'll be using GraphicsMagick on all platforms instead of ImageMagick
03:48 <+Radix-wrk> I'd recommend the WRE myself - much better and easier way of setting up WebGUI - but you'll want to use one of the binary WRE distributions if you can - that means ubuntu/rhel3/4 or OSX as the hosting platform
03:49 < wgGuest66> Thanks Rizen my wife is calling for supper...I will be doing more research soon...Cheers
03:49 <+Radix-wrk> haha.. the company I work for used to be called Graphic Magic many years ago (when I first started here) :)
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03:49 <@preaction> is graphicsmagick better than imagemagick? or just different?
03:50 <@preaction> is that why 7.4 requires WRE 0.8?
03:50 <+Radix-wrk> it's derived from imagemagick
03:50 <@preaction> also, i think i finally found a 7.x hoster: http://limedaley.com
03:50 <@preaction> no rate information for WebGUI, of course
03:50 <@rizen> graphics magick is a more stable api...less changes
03:51 <@rizen> it's a fork of image magick
03:51 <@rizen> and that's one of the reasons that 7.4 requires WRE 0.8
03:51 <+Radix-wrk> I've managed to set up webgui on a generic VPS account myself - tis how I'm hosting a few webgui setups for friends/family.
03:51 <@rizen> technically you'll be able to use wre 0.7.2, but you'll need to add a bunch of new modules
03:51 <+Radix-wrk> interestingly enough, it's all running in 256MB ram too
03:52 <@rizen> nicely done radix
03:52 <+Radix-wrk> centos4 box with dual athlon 64-bit processors
03:52 <@preaction> does that mean we'll have an official FreeBSD WRE build? i can offer up a build platform if drip can't handle it
03:52 <+Radix-wrk> cost me US$7.50 to try it out, so figured why not
03:53 <@rizen> yes we will, and drip can handle it
03:53 <@preaction> sweet
03:53 <+Radix-wrk> what's drip?
03:53 <@rizen> it's our vmware server farm
03:53 <@rizen> that's used to do wre builds
03:53 <+Radix-wrk> Ahh cool
03:54 <+Radix-wrk> vmware rocks doesn't it :)
03:54 <@rizen> indeed
03:54 <+Radix-wrk> We have a dedicated testing machine with vmware on it here and about a dozen vmware instances on it - with every kind of OS/config/language you could name for testing our own software on - it's awesome
03:57 <+Radix-wrk> sweet, you rated my RFE :)
03:57  * Radix-wrk bumps it up to the top of the list. ;)
04:02 <+Radix-wrk> I'm a bit disappointed in the lack of competition for the latest macro competition.. mine seems to be the only one so far and it wasn't that impressive. Surely someone else out there can put a macro together
04:02 <+Radix-wrk> I'd love to do one for google maps or something, but I don't know where to start with something like that
04:02 <@preaction> gott, i was just talking with someone who was doing that
04:03 <+Radix-wrk> yeah?
04:03 <@preaction> oh, jamestolley was doing that
04:03 <+Radix-wrk> awesome
04:03 <@preaction> the new full-time dev here
04:04 <+Radix-wrk> Hey.. for something like that you'd need to add stuff to the head block of the page to include the right js/stylesheets/etc.  How can you do that from a macro?
04:04 <@preaction> short answer: you can't
04:04 <+Radix-wrk> :(
04:04 <@preaction> but with JS it's not an issue, they're legal anywhere
04:04 <+Radix-wrk> yeah, I know you can embed it, but it's not as nice
04:04 <@preaction> style is read anywhere, but it won't pass validation
04:05 <@preaction> at least, i haven't found a browser yet that will ignore style inside of body, but that's subject to change should browsers ever start requiring well-formed xhtml
04:05 <+Radix-wrk> I was hoping there was some webgui api call you could make to add to the head section
04:05 <@preaction> it
04:06 <+Radix-wrk> since obviously assets can do that
04:06 <@preaction> 's not that, it's when macros are parsed
04:08 <@preaction> and here i am talking on IRC for 45 minutes when i should be out doing laundry...
04:08 <+Radix-wrk> go do your laundry :)
04:09 <+Radix-wrk> thanks for the chat tho :)
04:12 <@rizen> macros are the very last thing that's processed before the page is sent back to the browser
04:12 <@rizen> and since the page is sent back in chunks
04:12 <@rizen> the head block has usually already been sent by the time your macro would get processed
04:13 <@rizen> unless you rmacro was in the head block
04:21 <+Radix-wrk> Hmm.. so you could use a combination of macros to do it then.. a head block macro, and several page based macros..
04:21 <@rizen> i guess that would depend on what it is you want it to do
04:23 <+Radix-wrk> google maps macros
04:24 <+Radix-wrk> if jamestolley is working on it tho, I'll leave it, but I was considering tackling it earlier after the experience with doing the gravatar macro
04:24 <+Radix-wrk> google maps api is pretty flexible tho, so trying to encapsulate that into a single macro or even a bunch of macros would be hard
04:25 <+Radix-wrk> I might have a look at the flickr api perhaps, see how easy that is to do
04:26 <@rizen> we're going to do a similar contest to this one that integrates an asset into an external service
04:26 <@rizen> the google maps api would be good for that one
04:26 <+Radix-wrk> Ahh, yes - you're right I guess, an asset would be a better container
04:27 <@rizen> macros are good for retrieving stuff in this situation, but not being interactive
04:28 <+Radix-wrk> all stuff i want to learn, which is why I've participated in these comp's - getting me actually attempting to make a macro, etc :)
04:30 <@rizen> excellent..well we're glad you are participating
04:31 <@rizen> i just wish we could get you some competition
04:31 <+Radix-wrk> I know.. I wish there was more too - I could learn from them too :)
04:32 <+Radix-wrk> besides, you're going to be sick of sending me shwag bag's soon! :)
04:32 <@rizen> bah
04:32 <@rizen> i'll keep sending them to you as long as you keep winning
04:32 <@rizen> eventually you'll be able to wear nothing but webgui tshirts
04:32 <@rizen> and decorate your house with gooey's
04:33 <+Radix-wrk> I haven't received the first package yet.. hoping it will come soon.
04:33 <+Radix-wrk> Which reminds me, I need to submit some 'Gooey On The Go' photos when I do my next photoshoot
04:33 <+Radix-wrk> my other hobby is photography :)
04:34 <@rizen> i can't believe you didn't get the first one yet
04:34 <@rizen> that's rediculus
04:34 <@rizen> i sent it to you 4 months ago or something like that
04:34 <+Radix-wrk> Don't spose there was a tracking number or anything like that at all?
04:35 <@rizen> no, i sent it ground cuz otherwise it was going to cost me $100 to airmail it
04:36 <+Radix-wrk> Wiki comp ended march 1st, so prize prolly send mid-late march? - so it'd be two-three months since sent
04:36 <+Radix-wrk> Oh no.. one month of voting too
04:36 <+Radix-wrk> so sent mid-april - 2 months or so
04:36 <@rizen> wiki comp was over at the end of jan
04:37 <@rizen> and voting was over at the end of feb
04:37 <+Radix-wrk> http://webgui.org/wcc/wiki-how-to
04:37 <@rizen> holy crap you're right
04:37 <@rizen> i thought for sure we did that at the beginning of the year
04:37 <+Radix-wrk> prolly when the planning started :)
04:38 <@rizen> anyway..if you have a paypal account, and would prefer i can just send the money to you that way
04:38 <@rizen> and since it will save me shipping and schwag i can up it to $300 instead of $250
04:38 <+Radix-wrk> I have a paypal account
04:38 <@rizen> that way you'll get it instantly rather than having to wait months
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04:39 <+Radix-wrk> jessek@formsys.com
04:39 <@rizen> howdy wes
04:39 < wjw61> evening..
04:39 <@rizen> can you email it to me so i don't forget it?
04:39 <+Radix-wrk> yup, will do it now
04:40 <@rizen> i wont' be doing it now...but probably early next week
04:40 <+Radix-wrk> np
04:40 < wjw61> rizen you on skype?
04:43 <@rizen> i can be
04:43 <@rizen> do you need me to be?
04:46 < wjw61> sorry, jamie just called and answered my question..
04:47 < SDuensin> rizen !  Dude, I got a weird one over here.  Full images have been replaced by thumbnails!  WTF?
04:48 <@rizen> it's the way i prefer it SD
04:48 < SDuensin> Why did it eat my images?
04:49 < SDuensin> The names are all correct in the asset manager.  When you mouse over them, some link to the thumbnail versions!
04:50 <+Radix-wrk> thumbnails are generally displayed in the asset manager for the assets by default
04:51 <+Radix-wrk> if you click on the thumbnail it should show the full image tho
04:51 < SDuensin> But why did some of the links change to the "thumb-" version?
04:52 < SDuensin> With over 2000 images on my other site, I'm kinda concerned!
04:52 <@rizen> SD you can't just come on here and say "why is my site fucked up"
04:52 <@rizen> you haven't told us what's changed
04:52 <@rizen> did you upgrade
04:52 <@rizen> did you move stuff around
04:52 <@rizen> did you put in some custom code
04:52 <@rizen> did gremlins raid your server
04:53 <@rizen> you should know better
04:53 <@rizen> if you want help, help us help you
04:54 < SDuensin> In order:  No.  No.  No.  Maybe.  Apparently I don't.  I'm trying!
04:54 < SDuensin> :-P
04:54 < SDuensin> I really don't know what to tell you.  It was fine.  Now it's not.  I wasn't even working on it.
04:56 < SDuensin> For grins, I tried a rebuildLineage.  Didn't do squat.  Apparently the lineage is fine.
04:56 <@rizen> well stuff like that doesn't just happen
04:56 <@rizen> someone did something
04:56 <@rizen> consult the assetHistory table
04:56 <@rizen> and see if it has any answers for you
04:57 < SDuensin> Uh.  Ok.  Please wait.  :-)
05:00 < SDuensin> Something happened.  Dunno what.
05:00 < SDuensin> How would you even perform an edit like that?
05:02 < SDuensin> The original title and name were "l_7f5adecf55599006cdd8e5fbf525e2fa.jpg".  Now the "Current File" says "thumb-l_7f5adecf55599006cdd8e5fbf525e2fa.jpg".
05:02 <@rizen> where are you seeing that?
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05:02 < SDuensin> Only way I can think to do it would be to download the thumbnail and re-upload it.
05:03 < SDuensin> In the asset manager on the "Edit Image" page.
05:03 <@rizen> yeah i got that
05:03 <@rizen> i don't mean generally
05:03 <@rizen> specifically
05:03 <@rizen> what field displays it?
05:03 < SDuensin> "Title" and "Menu Title" are "l_7f5adecf55599006cdd8e5fbf525e2fa.jpg" as expected.  Current File is "thumb-l_7f5adecf55599006cdd8e5fbf525e2fa.jpg".
05:04 <@rizen> click on the thumbnail and find out the actual url of the file
05:04 < SDuensin> http://vgstest.jaegertech.net/uploads/rZ/UY/rZUYl2DvhCfFSyWUqDCE0w/thumb-l_7f5adecf55599006cdd8e5fbf525e2fa.jpg
05:04 <@rizen> now do:
05:05 <@rizen> cd /data/domains/vgstest.jaegertech.net/public/uploads/rZ/UY/rzUY..../
05:05 <@rizen> and find out what's in that folder
05:06 < SDuensin> .wgaccess
05:06 < SDuensin> l_7f5adecf55599006cdd8e5fbf525e2fa.jpg
05:06 < SDuensin> thumb-l_7f5adecf55599006cdd8e5fbf525e2fa.jpg
05:06 < SDuensin> thumb-thumb-l_7f5adecf55599006cdd8e5fbf525e2fa.jpg
05:07 <@rizen> interesting...now look at the revision history (through the asset manager) of this asset
05:07 <@rizen> and see when it was last edited
05:07 <@rizen> and by who
05:07 <@rizen> and look at the old version and see if it's messed up
05:08 < SDuensin> Two revisions, both by me.  Newest one is wrong, old one is fine.
05:08 <@rizen> and when was the new one created?
05:08 < SDuensin> 6/2/07 @ 9:43AM
05:09 < SDuensin> If I click the "X", will that roll it back?
05:09 <@rizen> so it's been screwed up for quite some time then
05:09 <@rizen> yes
05:09 < SDuensin> Guess so.
05:09 < SDuensin> Very weird.
05:11 <@rizen> gotta go. be back in a few hours
05:11 < SDuensin> Thanks bud.  I'm still your #1 fan.  :-)
05:19 <+Radix-wrk> get in line bud!
05:20  * Radix-wrk takes a peek at SD's website and recognises pjesi's theme with a few tweaks :)
05:23 <+Radix-wrk> SD: notice you're trying to hide the account login portion - one little thing I've been playing with of late is concealing the whole login/adminbar stuff in hidden/visible divs - then using javascript to display it if a little button is pressed
05:24 <+Radix-wrk> there's still a bug in my javascript somewhere - but you're welcome to take a look at it if you wanted and borrow the same idea for your site
05:25 <+Radix-wrk> http://www.juga.biz - there's a tiny little corner piece in the top right part of the style - you need to click it twice the first time tho for it to work (that's the bug)
05:26 < SDuensin> I found the problem!
05:26 < SDuensin> If I edit the URL of an uploaded picture and commit it, it screws it up.
05:27 <+Radix-wrk> Hmm.. interesting - sounds like a bug
05:27  * SDuensin agrees
05:27 < SDuensin> That's two bugs I've found!  I'll post it later - I gotta run.
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07:34 <+perlDreamer> what's WGBP for returning sets of objects if one of the set isn't an object?
07:34 <+perlDreamer> Does it throw a fatal, or  log a warning, or what?
07:52 <@rizen> sets of objects
07:52 <@rizen> and one isn't an object
07:52 <@rizen> can you give me an example?
07:54 <+perlDreamer> Like getting a set of objects from WebGUI::Workflow::Instance, where one of the array members is undef
07:54 <+perlDreamer> http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/spectre-should-check-that-it-has-a-valid-workflow#lHx4BxEUxcacX7rS5VLxeg
07:55 <@rizen> the method that generates the list should be checking for the validity of the objects that it's creating
07:55 <@rizen> removing them from the list if they are invalid
07:56 <@rizen> and throwing an error to the log
07:56 <+perlDreamer> Will do, probably tomorrow
07:57 <+perlDreamer> tomorrow --bug
07:57 <@rizen> hey...you can't count that
07:57 <@rizen> =)
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15:43 < SDuensin> Good morning.
15:56 <+Radix_> evenin' 
16:03  * SDuensin just filed a bug report for his weird image issue.
16:04 <+Radix_> Oh, susanb already posted it
16:04 <+Radix_> she posted it last week
16:04 <+Radix_> I ran into the same bug today myself
16:04 <+Radix_> all I did was change the template used on an image and it screwed up
16:07 < SDuensin> DOH!
16:07 < SDuensin> Well, fix it so we all quit posting about it!   :-P
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16:15 < AMH_bob> Good morning from the beautiful town of Valkenswaard!
16:16 < SDuensin> Greetings.
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17:39 < diakopter> good morning from Wichita, KS.
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20:55 <+perlDreamer> --bug
21:02 < SDuensin> bug++
21:03 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin, you have to submit __unique__ bugs to bug++ :)
21:03 < SDuensin> ++bug--
21:03 <+perlDreamer> It would be cool if perlbot couldn't those automatically
21:03 <+perlDreamer> s/couldn't/count/
21:14 <@preaction> perlbot karma bug
21:14 < perlbot> bug doesn't have any karma
21:14 <@preaction> bug++
21:14 <@preaction> perlbot karma bug
21:14 < perlbot> Karma for bug: 1
21:14 <@preaction> --bug
21:14 <@preaction> perlbot karma bug
21:14 < perlbot> Karma for bug: 1
21:15 <@preaction> it would if you used postfix like normal people
21:16 < SDuensin> hehehe
21:17 <+perlDreamer> Using perl makes me lazy
21:17 <+perlDreamer> prefix guarantees no mystery behavior
21:28 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin, that's a nasty bug
21:28 <+perlDreamer> The good news is that the original file isn't being altered
21:28 <+perlDreamer> It's just the filename
21:28 <+perlDreamer> It's taking the thumbnail filename instead of its original filename
21:29 < SDuensin> Yea.  Major pain.  :-)
21:29 < SDuensin> If I fix my URLs, I break my images!
22:23 <+perlDreamer> Really weird.
22:23 <+perlDreamer> Small images don't seem to trigger it
22:23 <+perlDreamer> Just large ones
22:23 <+perlDreamer> Maybe it's just intermittent.
22:25 < SDuensin> Happened to me every time.  Gotta commit though.
22:31 <+perlDreamer> hm
22:31 <+perlDreamer> I had one without commit happen
22:31 <+perlDreamer> um, I had one happen without committing
22:32 < SDuensin> Wow.  Proactive of it.  :-)
22:32 <+perlDreamer> Well, I did go back and edit the URL before I committed it
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23:50 < dhelsten> Hey guys, I'm not a programmer, but would like to keep more up to date with webgui happenings. 
23:53 <@rizen> great
23:53 <@rizen> are you saying you'd like to contribute?
23:53 <@rizen> or just hang out?
23:53 <@rizen> or something else?
23:54 < dhelsten> In the forums I've read about JT's plans for the overhaul of the SQLform into "Thingy".  I've been tasked with moving some simple MSAccess data onto the web.  I'd prefer to use Webgui on an existing site but I haven't seen enough documentation on SQLform to know if it will do the trick.  Right now I'm toying with coghead and zoho creator to do the job.  Any timeline on the "Thingy"?
23:56 <@rizen> it is being worked on, but no..no timeline
23:56 <@rizen> my guess is not until fall 
23:57 < dhelsten> Would it be worth it to try and create something in SQLform or just wait?  ie will there be an upgrade path?
23:57 <@rizen> there won't be an upgrade path
23:57 <@rizen> they are very different beasts
--- Day changed Sat Jun 23 2007
00:04 < dhelsten> My main goal is to be able to display a single record (ie contact info) and inside of the form for that record to display multiple related records based on critera (ie name of last 5 events they attended)  This would require 3 tables "contact info" "attendance" "events".  Is this something SQLform can do well?  Is this something that Thingy will be able to do?
00:23 <@rizen> sorry for the delay..had a phone call
00:24 <@rizen> The thingy will be able to do it, and i'm pretty sure that SQL Form could as well
00:26 <@rizen> in general though coghead and zoho creator will be better apps for you than SQL Form
00:26 <@rizen> the only advantage SQL Form gives you is that it's in WebGUI
00:26 <@rizen> Thingy wil be more like the other two
00:56 < dhelsten> Thanks for the info.  Now I just need to decide if it can wait.  The data isn't terribly complex so perhaps I will build it in one and then migrate.  Thanks for the info
01:00 < dhelsten> In terms of my intentions, I'd really like to get more into webgui but some of the docs are thin (I learn by example and need more "lets build a page that looks like this and does that" type of documentation")
01:01 < dhelsten> I have a webgui-run site at http://newcastlecapital.com  
01:02 <@rizen> have you got the Content Managers Guide?
01:02 < dhelsten> I bought a WGDR subscription about a year ago.   
01:02 < dhelsten> I just purchased the CMG
01:02 < dhelsten> I was rather disappointed.
01:03 <@rizen> disappointed with CMG?
01:03 <@rizen> or WDR?
01:03 <@rizen> or both?
01:03 < dhelsten> Both actually and the CMG just seemed like a simple reworking of the CMG
01:04 < dhelsten> WDR that is
01:05 < dhelsten> They are both coming from a reference perspective which doesn't work for me.
01:05 <@rizen> You're the first person that has told me they were disappointed with the CMG
01:06 <@rizen> what are you talking about....they literally show you how to do stuff
01:06 <@rizen> step by step
01:06 <@rizen> step 1 do this
01:06 <@rizen> step 2 do that
01:06 <@rizen> there are dozens and dozens of step by step lists in CMG
01:08 < dhelsten> This is true, there are many step by step lists just as the videos in the WDR were had all of the steps.
01:09 < dhelsten> My feeling is that the overall approach seems a bit backward.  
01:09 <@rizen> if it were reference oriented it would just tell you what the fields are
01:09 <@rizen> ok...we want to improve it, so could you tell me how it could be better? what should we be doing differently?
01:11 < dhelsten> To me it feels like it was written with the intent of explaining what every asset (or macro) in webgui does.
01:11 < dhelsten> For example:  
01:13 < dhelsten> Collaboration System - Use this asset if you want to create something which you can use to collaborate with others. 
01:13 < dhelsten> The steps to creating this are "Step 1" Step 2 Step 3
01:14 < dhelsten> This is why I said that it seems more like a reference book, because you start with the asset.
01:15 <@rizen> but then it goes on and shows you how to use it for job postings, photo galleries, and more
01:15 < dhelsten> That is correct.  
01:15 < dhelsten> But you still are starting with the asset first
01:15 < dhelsten> To me that is reference.
01:16 < dhelsten> Let me use photoshop as an example
01:16 <@rizen> ok...so to you that means reference, but you're not saying what is bad about it
01:16 <@rizen> you say you want to be shown how to do something
01:16 < dhelsten> Exactly right.
01:16 <@rizen> and it does show you how to create a photo gallery for example
01:16 <@rizen> and if you look in the table of contents, photo gallery is one of the itemms
01:16 <@rizen> so you can jump straight to that page
01:16 <@rizen> and start reating
01:16 <@rizen> reading
01:17 <@rizen> so what am i missing?
01:18 < dhelsten> I make up that you are pretty defensive about this and perhaps not willing to follow my thoughts well so I'm not sure how productive this exchange will be for either of us.
01:20 < nuba> i agree with dhelsten about the way the exchange is going
01:20 < nuba> i think it started around this point:
01:20 < nuba> 14:04 <@rizen> what are you talking about....they literally show you how to do stuff
01:22 < nuba> dhelsten: you can still elaborate on your feedback and post it here, tho
01:22 <@rizen> you're right, i am being defensive...but not for the reason that you think
01:22 <@rizen> i'm being defensive because you keep saying that it's "a reference" and that's not good, but so far you have yet to say what we could do to make it better
01:22 <@rizen> you keep talking and say nothing
01:23 <@rizen> so i'm not defensive so much as i feel like this conversation is wasting my time
01:23 <@rizen> i'll shut up now and let you talk...i'd just like you to give me a concrete example of what should have been there that you didn't find
01:25 < dhelsten> My purpose is not to waste your time and if you have other things to do, then by all means do them.  I'll go ahead and post my feedback and you can read it at your leisure.
01:27 < nuba> dhelsten: the point is, please elaborate on your feedback
01:27 < nuba> a good feedback is always appreciated
01:27 < dhelsten> I was going to give a photoshop example because that is an area that I'm more familiar with.  While I have built a webgui site, it was mostly by rebuiding the demo site.  Now the example
01:28 < nuba> good as is thought-of, and logically sound
01:28 < nuba> s/is/in/
01:28 <@rizen> nuba: thank you for moderating the discussion
01:28 < nuba> my pleasure
01:29 < dhelsten> First off, in the CMG I was hoping for tutorials.
01:29 < dhelsten> In photoshop a tutorial would mean "lets change the background color of the sky"
01:30 < dhelsten> Here is what we do:  First select the magic wand tool.
01:30 < dhelsten> Second, change the tolerance to 30
01:31 < dhelsten> Third create a new layer by doing such and such
01:31 < dhelsten> 23 use the color picker to choose a dark blue color....
01:32 < dhelsten> In a tutorial as I define it, there is a clear objective that will demostrate the use of multiple tools
01:33 <@rizen> yup i get it...now tell me something you'd want to do in webgui that wasn't explained in the book?
01:33 < dhelsten> If we liken tools in photoshop to the various prebuilt packages in webgui (Gallery, Wiki)
01:33 <@rizen> just the objective
01:33 <@rizen> you don't have to tell me how to do it..i just want the goal that was missing
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01:34 < dhelsten> Then I would like a tutorial that as its objective would be to create a complete web page
01:35 < dhelsten> From start to finish
01:35 < dhelsten> It would go step by step from creating a simple style, a simple page template, a simple css snippet,
01:36 < dhelsten> adding a simple custom CS asset, and a simple navigation element.
01:37 < dhelsten> It wouldn't need to be pretty, but show how everthing ties together. 
01:37 <@rizen> you're talking about design
01:37 <@rizen> that's a whole seperate book
01:37 <@rizen> it's coming out at the end of july
01:38 <@rizen> this is the content managers guide...not the designers guide
01:38 < nuba> i think the key here i think is the 'tie together' part
01:38 <@rizen> and it does show you how to create a page from beginning to end page 9-13
01:39 < nuba> dhelsten: do you know oreilly's "in a nutshell" book series ?
01:39 <@rizen> everything he's asking for is covered both as reference and tutorial in the designers guide
01:40 < dhelsten> Yes I'm familiar with the series
01:41 < nuba> it looks like you were expecting more like the "cookbook" series, then
01:41 < nuba> now, have this in mind,
01:41 < dhelsten> Nuba, I think you've got it.  I learn by example that introduces me to sever elements and how they interact
01:41 < nuba> unlike photoshop, webgui assets aren't so close knit together
01:42 < nuba> and actually the ways they can relate are just a bunch
01:43 < dhelsten> This is true but the interactions between Page Templates, Style Templates, snippets and the prebuilt assets are closely related 
01:43 < nuba> true
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01:43 <@rizen> i think that the reason you are disappointed here is not because the content you're looking for is missing, but rather because you've got the wrong book
01:43 < dhelsten> I guess I misread the intended audience of the CMG.  
01:44 <@rizen> CMG is about publishing, and once you're in the publishing process you're not doing css, navigation, etc
01:44 < nuba> dhelsten: so you think these could have been better explained in the book ?
01:44 < nuba> with a "in a nutshell" state of mind ?
01:45 <@rizen> the designers guide is over 300 pages talking exclusively about HTML, CSS, templates, snippets, navigation, styles, page layouts, and how they relate together
01:45 <@rizen> and more than half the book is "cookbook" style documentation
01:45 < nuba> rizen: the designers guide description sounds cool to me
01:46 < nuba> rizen: but i'd miss some explanation in a "nutshell" kind of book too
01:46 <@rizen> well maybe at some point we'll have to make an "in a nutshell" book, but at this point i think we need to get the main documentation out there
01:46 <@rizen> first was CM Guide
01:46 < nuba> ie. at least someting illustrating how the asset relate to a template
01:46 <@rizen> second is designers
01:46 <@rizen> third is admin
01:46 <@rizen> fourth is Commerce
01:47 <@rizen> what you just said is included in the design book
01:47 < nuba> heh
01:47 < nuba> suppose I already know plenty of html, css, etc.
01:47 <@rizen> i guess i should say it this way
01:47 <@rizen> if it's about how something looks, then it's in the design book
01:48 < nuba> and I only want to know how that fits into the webgui's way 
01:48 <@rizen> if it's about the content, regardless of how it looks, then it's in the cm book
01:48 < nuba> ok. where would go a general map of webgui ?
01:48 <@rizen> what do you mean "general map"
01:49 < nuba> how things relate, where should I look while in the task of understanding the next hop in my quest to build a site with webgui from start to finish
01:49 < nuba> where start would be a fresh install ready and working
01:49 < nuba> not from the "compiling WRE" start
01:49 < nuba> general map as in "big picture"
01:49 <@rizen> the getting started guide in the wiki
01:49 <@rizen> because if you're at that phase
01:49 <@rizen> you likely haven't bought documentation yet
01:50 < nuba> i think thats related to how dhelsten got frustrated
01:50 < dhelsten> yes.  nuba spot on.
01:50 < nuba> he got each tool explained thoroughly
01:50 < dhelsten> but didn't know where to start
01:51 <@rizen> where you start is entirely based upon your perspective
01:51 <@rizen> are you an admin, are you a designer, are you a cm?
01:51 <@rizen> are you building a store?
01:51 <@rizen> and in your case, you may be all those people
01:51 < nuba> a couple of "starting your website" examples would be cool
01:52 < dhelsten> I think for me just a good walk through of how the demo (starting) site is tied together would be a good start. 
01:53 <@rizen> i just don't understand what would go into that sort of thing 
01:53 < nuba> ie. i always start with a clean design and build the tree, then go about adding content with articles, then the non-articles assets, then work on my CSS w/ other programs then back to turn it into a (set of) webgui templates, then build the final navigation.
01:53 < nuba> just look at that paragraph
01:53 < nuba> suppose we would specialize it a bit more
01:53 <@rizen> nuba: what you just said is all covered in the designers guide
01:54 < nuba> turn into three paragraphs
01:54 < nuba> choose a specific kind of website to elaborate on the idea
01:54 < dhelsten> If that is what is in the designer's guide then great, sign me up!
01:55 < nuba> well if I already know all about html, css, etc. it would suck for me to buy a book just for that
01:55 <@rizen> those are each just chapters in that book
01:55 < nuba> maybe its a couple of pages you could include in all books in the series :)
01:55 <@rizen> it doesn't make sense to do that
01:55 <@rizen> a content manager simply does not design anything 
01:55 <@rizen> adding that to the cm guide would only confuse your average content manager
01:56 < nuba> rizen: heh well im afraid in brazil people have to wear sooo many hats that its really alien to see things sliced that way :D
01:56 <@rizen> the problem that you guys are having, and that i seem to be failing to get across is that you are BOTH roles
01:56 <@rizen> yes...that's what i'm saying
01:56 <@rizen> so why the hell would i put designers content into the cm guide
01:56 <@rizen> [if you're both roles
01:56 <@rizen> then you need both books
01:56 <@rizen> perido
01:56 <@rizen> period
01:57 < nuba> not quite
01:57 < nuba> let me elaborate
01:59 < nuba> in my example of paragraph-big cookbook: >i always start with a clean design and build the tree, then go about adding content with articles, then the non-articles assets, >>> then work on my CSS w/ other programs then back to turn it into a (set of) webgui templates <<< then build the final navigation.
01:59 < nuba> see the >> stuff indicated <<<
01:59 < nuba> i would handle the designer a book teaching him html, css, and whatever
02:00 < dhelsten> I agree, when I hear "designer", CSS comes to mind, not really the design of the "webgui structure"
02:01 <@preaction> what good is knowing html/css without knowing how to use it with webgui?
02:01 < nuba> in my opinion, webdesigner ia a thing, information architecture is another, much more close to the content manager's role than to the webdesigner's role
02:03 <@rizen> this going nowhere. until you can see the designers book then you can't comment on it. i've read it. i know what's there and what's not. once it's out we can do this conversation again and you can tell me what's missing
02:04 < nuba> is there a TOC online or anything ?
02:05 <@rizen> the book has not been released yet
02:05 <@rizen> i told you it's coming out at the end of july
02:05 < nuba> TOC = table of contents
02:05 < nuba> or summary
02:05 < nuba> or whatever
02:05 < nuba> is it still in the works ?
02:05 <@rizen> i just said no
02:06 < nuba> k
02:06 < dhelsten> I look forward to it.  I think it will be helpful to getting up and running.  Frankly, there is some basic stuff I don't know. 
02:07 < nuba> well, to wrap it up, dhelsten: it looks like you purchased a reference book, "nutshell" style, while you were hoping for a site building tutorial, à la "cookbook" series, right ?
02:07 < dhelsten> I think that is part of it.  Also, didn't have a clear understanding of content manager vs designer
02:08 < dhelsten> If both had been out and the time I made the purchase, I definitely would have recognized that it was
02:08 < nuba> rizen: it seems to me you have a very strict and clear idea about separation of roles
02:08 < nuba> rizen: maybe if you could elaborate more on that in the material promoting the books,
02:08 < dhelsten> the designer book that I needed.
02:08 < nuba> it would be cool
02:10 < dhelsten> I've gone back and reread the blurb on lulu.  It isn't inaccurate.  Since it was the only book out at the time, I guess thought it would cover more bases.  Now I see that it is just the tip of the iceburg
02:14 < dhelsten> As for specific comments on the book, I will say that the font could be smaller and the inside margin was pretty close to the spine.
02:14 < dhelsten> Since it does go asset by asset, having the asset name at the top or bottom of the page would have been helpful for thumbing through.
02:15 <@rizen> excellent comments
02:15 <@rizen> i also think that the font is HUGE, unfortunately we are required to use that size font
02:16 < nuba> why?
02:16 <@rizen> we work with a lot of schools and governments that have regulations on it for vision impaired people
02:16 < nuba> i see
02:17 <@rizen> also, apparently middle aged people (45+) with eyesight on the way out find it much easier to read
02:19 <@rizen> i've actually received emails and phone calls from people thanking me for the big font
02:22 < nuba> nice
02:24 < dhelsten> Another comment:  While the step by step is very thorough, it is also repetitive.  I would take out the steps that are common to all assets
02:24 <@rizen> we thought about that too
02:24 <@rizen> the problem is that most people don't read it cover to cover
02:24 <@rizen> so if they had to skip around they'd be disappointed
02:25 <@rizen> most people use it as a tutorial to learn exactly what they need to do right now, and then put the book away
02:25 < dhelsten> I figured as much.   
02:26 <@rizen> it's hard pleasing everyone
02:26 < dhelsten> It is now clear to me that this really is a book for an end user who never really sees the inner workings
02:27 < dhelsten> In that context I don't have as many complaints.
02:27 <@rizen> i swear to you that the other book is exactly what you are looking for
02:27 <@rizen> it covers everything you and nuba asked about
02:30 < dhelsten> Frankly, I don't even know how to set up the tree.  For example:  Do I leave the templates in the import node or copy them out?  create new templates in the import node or do I create a separate folder? outside or inside the home directory?  etc? 
02:30 < nuba> well i like cookbooks more than nutshells
02:31 < nuba> i only have the perl nutshell one cause it came with the perl cd bookshelf
02:31 < nuba> cookbooks solving interesting problems with sound and clever strategy, thats much more fun !! :)
02:33 < dhelsten> I hope the designer book discusses the tree and architecture of the site.  I'd also like to see a strategy section related to building asset trees that work in clever ways with navigation.
02:34 <@rizen> both are discussed
02:34 < dhelsten> Great
02:38 < dhelsten> I can't wait until July and have one more question.  Right now I have a Blog CS inside of a Page Layout.  However you click on a story, the link goes straight to the story and I loose the page layout.  How do I make it open inside of the same page layout?
02:38 <@rizen> you have to make sure that the style on the CS is the same as the style on the page
02:40 < dhelsten> The styles are the same.  Let me give two links for an example. http://newcastlecapital.com/en/recent-events11
02:40 < dhelsten> Go to this one, then click on one of the stories.  
02:42 <@rizen> your style doesn't include the things on the left, does it?
02:43 < dhelsten> No it doesn't. 
02:44 <@rizen> if it's not part of the style, then why would you assume that the posts would have it on the page?
02:44 < dhelsten> I figured that the posts would use the same page layout as the master cs
02:45 <@rizen> you are confusing "page layout" with style
02:45 <@rizen> page layout is just an asset that displays other assets
02:45 <@rizen> in this case you told it to display the content of the collaboration system
02:46 <@rizen> but the posts are not the collaboration system..they are each their own assets
02:46 <@rizen> threads can be moved from one CS to another via cut/paste, therefore they aren't part of the same asset
02:47 <@rizen> the page layout will only retain it's content so long as you are viewing the URL of the page layout
02:47 <@rizen> but when you move away from that URL then you're just dealing with whatever the asset is
02:47 <@rizen> it may be another page layout
02:47 <@rizen> it may just be a thread
02:48 < dhelsten> So am I essentially creating one style per page if I want anything other than the content to look differnt
02:48 < dhelsten> ?
02:49 <@rizen> if every page in your site needs to look differently then i suppose you are creating one style per page
02:49 <@rizen> more likely though you'd be creating a style for the entire site, or a style per section
02:50 < dhelsten> right.
02:50 < nuba> i guess i'd love to see yet another book.. this one would be "designing webgui: project decisions and application design, architecture, etc. how it came to be like that, the gory details, etc.. " :)
02:50 < nuba> "hacking webgui" would be cool too
02:51 < nuba> like, the nasty apps people were doing with SQL report back in the day... :D
02:51 < dhelsten> So in general, all nav elements as I'm using them should be part of the style, right?
02:51 <@rizen> yes
02:52 < nuba> all you needed was a database, the database link, and a SQL Report w/ "preprocess macros on query" checked. and there you would go building your webapp in 10 minutes :)
02:55 < dhelsten> I've been too stingy with the style templates.  I had the impression that it was one style per site and was trying to do things with the Page Layout that it isn't supposed to do.  Thanks for the info.  
02:56 < dhelsten> Time to head home.  I appreciate your comments rizen and look forward to the next guide.  Nuba thanks for helping to clarify my disjointed thoughts.  
03:00 < nuba> np
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03:11 < nuba> rizen: i have a webgui-based project im starting and I know I'll have to do some coding, and I'd like to contribute with as much as possible of whatever's created back to webgui. so I wonder if I could discuss this with you a bit
03:11 <@rizen> sure, shoot
03:12 < nuba> ok, let me outline the project a bit. this is a grant i've got from the government, to build a portal dedicated to whats called by unesco 'untangible heritage'
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03:14 < nuba> i need a map, in which it should be possible to add points or lines with comments, and links
03:14 < nuba> for that i plan to use google maps' api
03:14 <@rizen> sweet, i've been wanting to build this myself forever
03:14 <@rizen> just haven't had time
03:15 < nuba> the map people will use to add content like "i went to this place and saw that and that piece of intangible cultural heritage"
03:15 < nuba> and i want them to do add content based on the map
03:15 < nuba> but that should be tied somehow to something like a wiki (?)
03:16 < nuba> people would submit videos, audio, images
03:16 < nuba> in a interface somehow like flickr's 
03:16 < nuba> a good gallery
03:16 < nuba> with a good zoom
03:16 < nuba> not sure if the best bet is the USS asset
03:16 < nuba> i've been thinking of a specialized media-management asset
03:16 < nuba> so you have a random piece of media
03:17 < nuba> and you create attributes based on what you want to manage there
03:17 < nuba> then go on adding content and filling the fields
03:17 < nuba> so, some annotated gallery
03:17 < nuba> and you would need to manage sets of content
03:17 < nuba> arbitrary sets
03:18 < nuba> or sets created by queries on the attributes
03:18 < nuba> that would be for the media
03:18 < nuba> so there we have, a map interface, a gallery, let me see..
03:18 < nuba> just a setc.
03:18 < nuba> sec.
03:19 < nuba> oh, text content is "media" i have to handle too, just for completeness' sake
03:20 < nuba> also, i want to make it as multilingual as possible
03:20 < nuba> is there any elegant way to handle that yet ? or just copy the branch and translate ?
03:21 < nuba> or maybe tonnes of calls to text snippets..
03:21 < nuba> and on the media management thing,
03:21 < nuba> i would need some content review/comment/approval cycle
03:22 < nuba> which i suppose could be handled just fine with the current workflow
03:22 < nuba> system
03:22 < nuba> we have
03:22 < nuba> in webgui :)
03:22 < nuba> so, what do you think ?
03:22 < nuba> thats about it, outline-wise.
03:23 <@rizen> well in order to really be usable i think it will all have to be it's own asset
03:23 <@rizen> rather than trying to integrate the map with a bunch of other assets that have no idea what you're talking about
03:24 < nuba> well i think it could be reduced to two assets, 1) map thing, 2) media management thing
03:24 <@rizen> as far as the multi-lingual thing that pretty much is irrelevant in a site where users are posting their own content...they're going to post in whatever their language is
03:25 <@rizen> but didn't you say that they create a peg on a map and then attach text and photo gallery to it?
03:25 < nuba> for 2), think this: how would you approach the flickr into webgui problem ?
03:25 <@rizen> we're already doing it
03:26 <@rizen> i'm 85% sure it will be released with WebGUI 7.5
03:26 < nuba> cool. wow. can I help?
03:26 <@rizen> frank is in charge of that project so you'd have to ask him
03:26 <@rizen> frank@plainblack.
03:26 <@rizen> com
03:26 < nuba> ok, i'll contact him
03:27 <@rizen> preaction, do you know anything about the flickr project, or is that all frank?
03:30 < nuba> and what about the google maps one ?
03:30 < nuba> what did you have in mind ?
03:31 < nuba> my idea would be to add content in one part of the website, then in the map they would click and add a link to that content
03:31 < nuba> or draw a line
03:31 < nuba> and add comment there too
03:31 <@rizen> the google maps app that i have planned is slightly different
03:32 < nuba> really `a la google maps for directions or whatever
03:32 <@rizen> you create the asset and set a who can add group, which might be only CMs or might be your site visitors
03:32 <@rizen> anyway, the asset is then committed
03:32 <@rizen> and works just like google maps
03:33 <@rizen> except that as a user with the right privileges, you can put a pin into the map  by zooming to the right location and then placing the pin
03:34 <@rizen> upon placing the pin you can enter in a title, an address, a phone number, a description, a link, and a photo
03:34 <@rizen> all fields are optional except title
03:34 < nuba> awesome
03:34 <@rizen> once you've hit save and it's been approved, the pin stays on the map for all other users to see
03:34 < nuba> i'd like to do that
03:35 <@rizen> this can be used for a few things
03:35 < nuba> i can see my need satisfied by a subset of your specs
03:35 <@rizen> in the case of webgui.org, webgui users could tell us where they are from
03:35 < nuba> k
03:35 <@rizen> in the case of a manufacturer, they could use it to show off all their store locations
03:35 < nuba> cool
03:35 <@rizen> the same goes for a restaurant
03:36 < nuba> in my case, people would add media and tell where did it came from with the map
03:36 <@rizen> all  their restaurants could show up on their map
03:36 <@rizen> the only thing i'd like to add to it and that i haven't figured out yet
03:36 <@rizen> is i'd like to be able to do a regional search
03:36 <@rizen> in the US it woudl be a zip code search
03:36 <@rizen> in canada it would be a postal code
03:37 <@rizen> not sure what other countries would use
03:37 < nuba> i have some ideas
03:37 < nuba> ie. you can draw regions in the map
03:37 < nuba> give it a name
03:37 <@rizen> oh really?
03:37 <@rizen> that's awesome
03:37 < nuba> and compute if a given pin is inside it
03:38 <@rizen> well anyway...the search part is the last part of my spec
03:38 < nuba> i can write that
03:38 < nuba> easily
03:38 < nuba> actually not sure about being easy at the interface
03:38 <@rizen> if you wrote it to spec, i'd even send you some money
03:38 < nuba> but the algorithm to compute if its inside the area isnt going to be complicated
03:39 < nuba> please send me the spec
03:39 < nuba> i can send you some code samples
03:39 < nuba> and we can discuss this further
03:39 <@rizen> i don't have one written
03:39 <@rizen> just that
03:39 <@rizen> i'll have to write one
03:39 <@rizen> i just don't know when i'll have the time
03:39 <@rizen> time's tight these days
03:40 <@rizen> if i wrote the spec this sunday
03:40 <@rizen> do you think you could have it done in time for the 7.4 release?
03:40 <@rizen> which is July 20
03:40 < nuba> when is 7.4 scheduled for ?
03:40 <@rizen> July 20 is the cut off date for new features
03:40 <@rizen> that's about a month
03:40 < nuba> possibly
03:41 <@rizen> like a 20% possibly or a 80% possibly?
03:41 < nuba> would like to see the spec and research a few hours before commiting to anything
03:42 <@rizen> you're not committing...i just need to know the likelihood so i can determine whether to write the spec now, or if it can wait a couple weeks
03:42 < nuba> but i'd say like 80%+ or so
03:42 <@rizen> ok, then, i guess i'm working on Sunday
03:42 < nuba> oh well
03:42 <@rizen> twas going to be my first day off in a few weeks, but oh well
03:42 <@rizen> it will be worth it to get this into webgui
03:42 < nuba> huh
03:43 < nuba> well whats the schedule for 7.5 ?
03:49 <@rizen> there isn't one yet
03:49 <@rizen> due to our new stability policy we can't set one
03:49 <@rizen> we can't declare 7.4 stable until all the bugs on the bug list have been cleared 2 weeks after it's release
03:50 <@rizen> and we can't branch for 7.5 until 7.4 is stable
03:56 < nuba> ok
04:01 <@rizen> the reason that frank will be working on flickr for 7.5 is because a client has paid us to write it and backport it to 7.4
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04:12 < nuba> k
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04:46 <+perlDreamer> PB-type people: I need some help with a bug fix.
04:46 <+perlDreamer> I fixed the thumbnail related bug, where if people edited an Image, it started using the thumbnail as the file instead of the original.
04:47 <+perlDreamer> But I don't know how to fix it via an upgrade script.
04:47 <+perlDreamer> http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/problems-with-thumbnails#HxVNDXGa835kjugzu1zVEw
04:47 <@rizen> ou can't
04:48 <+perlDreamer> That's what I was afraid of
04:48 <@rizen> people will just have to manually fix the ones that are broken
04:48 <+perlDreamer> Do you want that in the gotchas, or in the bug report?
04:48 <@rizen> i guess you could test every single file/image asset in the system and see if it starts with thumb-
04:48 <@rizen> and then remove the thumb-
04:48 <@rizen> but that could take a really long time for what is likely a very minor problem
04:49 <+perlDreamer> Yeah.
04:49 <@rizen> yeah, both bugs and gotchas
04:49 <+perlDreamer> Will do.
04:49 <+perlDreamer> We're back into the bug-side-effect bugs.
04:49 <+perlDreamer> Fixing a bug introduces a new bug.
04:50 < nuba> rizen: so the next step re: the google map asset is you contacting me with a spec, right ?
04:50 <@rizen> yes i'll send you an email with the spec
04:50 <@rizen> actually just send me an email now though so i know i have your email addy
04:50 < nuba> ok, in the meanwhile i'll get myself familiar with it
04:50 < nuba> jt@plainblack.com?
04:51 <@rizen> y
04:55 < nuba> sent
04:55 < nuba> remember google maps allows you to use custom maps too, its not restricted to google's only
04:56 < nuba> actually the best would be for you to check this while spec'ing
04:56 < nuba> http://www.google.com/apis/maps/documentation/
04:57 < nuba> so you'll know what it can or can't do
04:57 <+perlDreamer> In the new, snazzier looking bug forum, what do the symbols in the left column mean?
04:57 <@rizen> read or undread
04:57 <@rizen> unread
04:57 <+perlDreamer> Nice
04:58 <+perlDreamer> I can file a bug for this, but there's something off in the Contribute bug display.  It's showing a bug that I closed, and that does not show up in the bug list anymore.
04:58 <@rizen> yup file a report
05:00 <+perlDreamer> That page rocks, b.t.w.
05:00 <+perlDreamer> You get a 1 page summary of everything that's going no.
05:00 <+perlDreamer> I love it!
05:02 <@rizen> yeah, i saw it on some other site and thought to myself that we really needed something like that
05:03 <+perlDreamer> bugs--
05:03 <+perlDreamer> bugs --
05:03 <+perlDreamer> karma bugs
05:03 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: karma bugs
05:03 < perlbot> Karma for bugs: -2
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04:22 < cap10morgan> Is there a way to add fields to a DataForm using the API?
04:23 <@preaction> doesn't look like it
04:23 <@preaction> the entire code for the dataform looks in dire need of a refactor and a whole slew of documentation
04:23 <@preaction> but JT's building the Thingy to replace it, so I imagine that won't get done
04:25 < cap10morgan> the Thingy, eh?
04:25 < cap10morgan> that sounds exciting
04:25 < cap10morgan> and, er, vague
04:25 < cap10morgan> ;)
04:27 <@preaction> it's basically a general-purpose database management tool
04:27 <@preaction> you set up the db, you create the forms, you create the permissions, you create reports from the data, etc...
04:27 <@preaction> we couldn't get a decent description
04:27 <@preaction> just like the collaboration system
04:32 < cap10morgan> gotcha
04:32 < cap10morgan> sounds cool though
04:32 <@preaction> i hope
04:32 < cap10morgan> is there a decent way to get a new id computed when you have a collision? (i.e. inserting things straight into the db)
04:33 < cap10morgan> i'm trying to migrate some dataform fields via a script
04:33 <@preaction> use WebGUI::Session::Id
04:34 < cap10morgan> oh sweet, thanks
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01:58 < nuba> its so quiet here on sundays
01:59 <+Radix_> yes
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15:49 < SDuensin> Good morning.
16:39 < AMH_bob> Good morning!
16:40 < SDuensin> Hi AMH_bob 
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00:24 <+perlDreamer> rizen: I need a bug consult.  Got 10 minutes?
00:25 <+perlDreamer> this is the bug: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/cs-branch-error
00:25 <@rizen> reading
00:27 <@rizen> ok, what is your question
00:28 <@rizen> incidentally there are multiple bugs here
00:28 <@rizen> none of those assets should allow isHidden to be anything other than Yes
00:28 <+perlDreamer> So if Erik wants to be able to, he needs an RFE
00:29 <+perlDreamer> That's my question then.
00:29 <+perlDreamer> Thanks, man!
00:29 <@rizen> i won't allow it
00:29 <@rizen> even if he makes the RFE
00:29 <+perlDreamer> I'll fix all three asset/container combinations for isHidden, probably by sticking it into update instead of addRev or processProperties.
00:29 <+perlDreamer> Okay, rizen. I'll pass that along.
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07:36 <+perlDreamer> preaction: art thou awake this eve?
07:37 <+perlDreamer> rizen: the isHidden fixes are in for Post, Event and WikiPage.
07:37 <+perlDreamer> bug --
07:37 <@rizen> egg salad
07:38 <+perlDreamer> egg salad?
07:38 <+perlDreamer> chloroquinine?
07:38 <@rizen> = good
07:38 <@rizen> excellent 
07:38 <+perlDreamer> coolio
07:42 <+perlDreamer> closed a bug fixed a while ago
07:43 <+perlDreamer> btw, Haarg.  Nice work backporting that fix to 7.3.19.
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11:06 <+Radix-wrk> sweet, got lightbox working with webgui
11:07 <+Radix-wrk> http://juga.biz/home/test - test page with both an individual image and photo gallery with lightbox
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16:08 < SDuensin> Hello all!
16:09 <@rizen> who is all?
16:09 < SDuensin> Um.  Us?
16:09 < SDuensin> I mean, really - who else do you need?
16:10 <@rizen> well perhaps you meant a user named all that isn't here
16:10 <@rizen> or perhaps you meant all creatures in the universe
16:11 < SDuensin> Na.  Just the smart ones.
16:11 <@rizen> or perhaps you mean Al, but added an extra L
16:11 <@rizen> or perhaps a.l.l. is an acronym
16:11 <@rizen> or perhaps i'm just being an ass
16:11 <@rizen> =)
16:11 < SDuensin> Weird A.L.L. runs WebGUI?   Sweet!
16:12 <@rizen> if a.l.l. were an acronym i think it would mean "astute lounge lizards"
16:12 < SDuensin> Leisure Suit Larry!
16:12 <@rizen> or perhaps "acrobatic lilac llamas"
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16:35 < AMH_bob> Good morning! I see y'all woke up in a good mood!
16:36 <+Radix_> I've been awake for hours! :)
16:36 < SDuensin> I've been in a car for hours!
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17:02 < rizen_> radix, nice work
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17:02 <@rizen> on the lightbox thing
17:03 < SDuensin> Lightbox thing?
17:03 <@rizen> http://juga.biz/home/test 
17:03 <@rizen> i tested it on safari 3 this morning and it worked great
17:04 < SDuensin> Looks familiar.  :-)    http://new.duensing.com/rylee/photos/age2/new-swingset
17:05 < SDuensin> I don't have the same level of fancyness displaying the images, but I also allow for grouping of images into sets that can be paged through and to display captions (which that page doesn't show).
17:05 < SDuensin> Still, it looks good.  I like the way it "unrolls" to the proper size.
17:06 <@rizen> yeah, but it's cooler when radix does it, because his doesn't have a picture of a kid
17:06 <@rizen> it has a picture of the webgui site
17:06 < SDuensin> :-P
17:11 < SDuensin> What's the best way to package something like that up to share with people?  For my own sites, I'm using a wpkg.
17:12 <@rizen> that's the best way
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17:13 < SDuensin> No problems with endians and such?
17:14 <@rizen> nope
17:14 <@rizen> cuz webgui package uses JSON to store data
17:16 < SDuensin> Nice.
17:16 < SDuensin> Maybe I'll document the crazy thing then.  :-)
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19:56 <+perlDreamer> Is the web interface to SVN down?
19:56 <+perlDreamer> https://svn.webgui.org gives me a 443 error (Forbidden)
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20:04 <@preaction> not down for me
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20:08 <+perlDreamer> I tweaked the proxy settings to runnel IRC and IM through, I wonder if I broke https...
20:08 <+perlDreamer> preaction: thanks
20:09 <@preaction> the error shouldn't be 443, it should be 403
20:09 <@preaction> perlbot port 443
20:09 < perlbot> port 443: https - http protocol over TLS/SSL
20:09 <@preaction> which is an interesting coincidence
20:09 <+perlDreamer> no, you're right.  I mistyped earlier.
20:10 <+perlDreamer> 403 error on port 443
20:10 <@preaction> darn, i thought i had the makings of a mystery!
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20:12 <+perlDreamer> well, you could solve the mystery of the incorrect Apache proxy for me :)
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20:15 <@preaction> durned if i know, not an expert much over here :(
20:18 <+perlDreamer> me, too
20:19 <+perlDreamer> preaction: I did some Event hacking last night to fix a bug with isHidden.  In 7.4, I had to add the update subroutine back in.  Do you happen to know why it was taken out?  Would you mind giving the new code a once-over as a double check for me?
20:19 <@preaction> i don't remember, i think it was because i figured that isHidden was handled in processPropertiesFromFormPost
20:20 <@preaction> but i suppose that doesn't happen with an editBranch
20:27 <+perlDreamer> No, editBranch calls addRev directly
20:27 <+perlDreamer> But it you put it in addRev, then processPropertiesFFP will override it with info from the parent
20:27 <+perlDreamer> The only way to do it is to put it in update
20:27 <+perlDreamer> well, the only way I could think of
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00:41 <+perlDreamer> rizen: at your discretion, would you please refile this in RFEs? http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/view-profile
00:42 <@rizen> i have really shitty internet access where i am
00:42 <@rizen> i can barely load web pages, please email it to me
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01:06 <+perlDreamer> rizen: it's on its way
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16:41 < AMH_bob> Good morning!
16:41 <@rizen> howdy
16:41 < SDuensin> Hey AMH_bob & rizen 
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05:34  * Radix-wrk makes a backup and prepares to import another 2600 users into his webgui system.
05:34 <+Radix-wrk> currently 5379 users
05:37 < SDuensin> Importing from where?
05:38 <+Radix-wrk> text file
05:38 <+Radix-wrk> using userImport.pl
05:39 < SDuensin> Ah, ok.  I face a Drupal migration in the not-too-distant future.  Fearing it.  :-)
06:00 <@rizen> i love userImport.pl
06:00 <@rizen> one of the best utilities i've ever written for webgui
07:02 <+Radix-wrk> there we go 7862 users in webgui now
07:02 <+Radix-wrk> rizen: yep, it rocks
07:03 <@rizen> nicely done sir, but you have a way to go before you're running the site with the most users
07:03 <+Radix-wrk> Oh sure
07:03 <@rizen> http://www.atomiclearning.com/ = 200,000+ users
07:05 <+Radix-wrk> I saw that one colink posted from royal netherlands football club or soemthing too.. 25million views a day or something
07:05 <+Radix-wrk> amazing.. and just goes to prove that Webgui can do anything :)
07:06 <@rizen> now let's hope that my marketing campaign takes off so that we can increase webgui from 10,000+ deployments to 100,000+ deployments
07:06 <@rizen> =)
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08:10 <@preaction> aww, they're using 6.8.6
08:16 <+Radix-wrk> yeah, but at least they're using webgui :)
08:16 <@preaction> true nuff
08:17 <@preaction> i don't know if i want an iphone or if i want one of these: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973
08:17 <@preaction> iphone has the 4g hard drive and the "it's an iphone", but the open moko platform is open, anyone could write anything for the device
08:18 <+Radix-wrk> iPhone looks neat, but it doesn't really do anything that my current phone doesn't do (or couldn't do)
08:18 <+Radix-wrk> great to see apple spurring on the competition tho
08:18 <@preaction> i think it's more the overall user experience that looks nice on the iphone
08:19 <@preaction> sync w/ itunes from your existing apps
08:19 <+Radix-wrk> I heard that there's no copy/paste on it, which seems crazy
08:19 <@preaction> the UI for the text input could be better probably
08:19 <+Radix-wrk> and the itunes noose grows tighter too
08:19 <@preaction> yeah, that is getting annoying
08:19 <@preaction> "itunes is everything because it's the only thing people on windows use!"
08:21 <@preaction> and the biggest suck is that it's not a dev platform at all
08:21 <@preaction> i mean, even WM5 has an SDK that isn't too hard to get for normal Joe User
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16:49 < AMH_bob> Good morning everybody (I'll do the honors while Scott isn't in)
16:49 <+Radix_> yo
16:50 <@rizen> how's it going in glorious holland today
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17:15 < AMH_bob> All is well! We're pushing it pretty hard :D
17:17 < AMH_bob> The weather is still ok (going to get worse this week); another 5 days and I'm off to sunny Spain!
17:17 <@rizen> vacation?
17:18 < AMH_bob> Yeah, Torremolinos, the south side of spain.
17:18 <@rizen> nice
17:18 < AMH_bob> :D
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22:33 < wgGuest98> hello
22:33 < wgGuest98> Anyone here?
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22:38 <+perlDreamer> hey, people!
22:39 <@preaction> bonjourno! que pata!
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22:40 <+perlDreamer> preaction: I love it when you IM in Italian
22:41 <+perlDreamer> Is the boss around?  The 7.3.19 branch release doesn't look complete, but I don't know if there's going to be a .20 release either.
22:41 <@preaction> doesn't look complete?
22:42 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI.pm still says .19
22:42 <@preaction> oh, he must not've updated that, but then again i remember him saying something about getting haaarg to help with the release
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23:05 <+perlDreamer> bug --
23:05 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: karma bug
23:05 < perlbot> Karma for bug: 1
23:08 < diakopter> bug--
23:08 < diakopter> bug++
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23:19 < vayde> God I miss WebGUI!  
23:20 < vayde> I have never seen 'check the cgi log for more information' INSIDE the cgi log with webgui
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23:21 <@preaction> that sounds... horrific
23:22 < vayde> yeah, it's pretty ugly
23:23 < vayde> the other day I saw an END block inside of a BEGIN block inside of a runtime conditional
23:24 < vayde> though to be fair, that was something  a friend asked me to debug, not produciton code
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01:10 <+perlDreamer> preaction: Is there any way to do something like this, but only in SQL: update table set value=default unless $value, where the unless $value is perl-ish (true)?
01:51 <@preaction> sure
01:51 <+perlDreamer> How?
01:52 <@preaction> update table set `column`="value" where `column` IS NULL || `columns` = "";
01:52 <+perlDreamer> oh
01:52 <@preaction> er.. s/s\b//;
01:52 <+perlDreamer> right
01:52 <+perlDreamer> I'll just verify what empty looks like in there, in case it's also empty string
02:08 <+perlDreamer>  I updated lib/WebGUI.pm to say that it was .20, and added an upgrade script from .19 to .20 as well.
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02:15 <+perlDreamer> Hola
02:16 < SDuensin> Yo
02:22 <+perlDreamer> bug --
02:22 <+perlDreamer> bug --
02:24 <+perlDreamer> bug --
02:24 <@preaction> Perl 5.10 releasing soon: http://www.slideshare.net/acme/whats-new-in-perl-510
02:24 <+perlDreamer> cool!
02:25 <@preaction> i like the "state" feature, wonder if it'll work in mod_perl
02:25 <@preaction> plus "switch" is now native (given/when block)
02:25 <+perlDreamer> no more source hacking
02:25 <+perlDreamer> I'll have to read about "state"
02:26 <@preaction> there's some messed up new features in here
02:26 <+perlDreamer> Do you know what the USER_AGENT string is for Safari 3?
02:26 <@preaction> no
02:27 < SDuensin> I can hit your site with it if you want to see.
02:27 <+perlDreamer> I don't have a public facing site.. :(
02:27 <+perlDreamer> Oh, we could use Sunset's site though...
02:27 < SDuensin> What about browserwatch?
02:28 <+perlDreamer> what's that, SD?
02:28 <+perlDreamer> preaction: please go to www.sunsetpres.org with that browser.
02:28 <@preaction> don't have it :(
02:29 <+perlDreamer> s/preaction/SDuensin/
02:29 <+perlDreamer> my bad
02:29 < SDuensin> Well, it USED to be a browser tracking thing.
02:29 < SDuensin> OK, I've gone there.
02:30 <+perlDreamer> Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/522.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0.2 Safari/522.12
02:30 <@preaction> or go to http://whatsmyuseragent.com
02:30 < SDuensin> That's handy.
02:32 <+perlDreamer> What does it say, SD?
02:32 < SDuensin> same thing you posted
02:35 <+perlDreamer> hey, we get the say command
02:35 <+perlDreamer> defined-or
02:35 < SDuensin> ?
02:36 <+perlDreamer> it's a shortcut for saying
02:36 <+perlDreamer> $a = defined($b) ? $b : $c;
02:36 <+perlDreamer> $a = $b // $c;
02:36 <+Radix_> the first one is taken directly from C
02:36 <+Radix_> but how does the second one work?
02:37 <+perlDreamer> perl has a ternary operator
02:37 <+perlDreamer> but people keep writing $b || $c and wanting to do the definedness check
02:37 <@preaction> i like the smart match '~~' operator
02:37 <+Radix_> Oh.. so // is a boolean check?
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02:37 <+perlDreamer> yes, on definedness
02:38 <+perlDreamer> not truth
02:38 <+perlDreamer> || -> for truth
02:38 <+Radix_> Ahh.. so if b is defined, set that, or set to c
02:38 <+perlDreamer>  and // for definedness
02:38 <+perlDreamer> right
02:38 <+Radix_> cool
02:38 <+perlDreamer> maybe p6 won't ever happen
02:38 <+perlDreamer> between these changes and Moose, p5 is quite p6-y
02:38 <+Radix_> handy for possible undefined default values I guess
02:39 <+perlDreamer> yes, syntactic sugar for saving fingers
02:39 < SDuensin> But!  I want Parrot!
02:39 <+perlDreamer> Parrot is an interpreter, not Perl 6
02:39 <+Radix_> Oh well. time to head off to work for me now :)
02:39 <+perlDreamer> Perl 6 will run on Parrot as one possible implementation
02:39 < SDuensin> I know, but P6 was going to run on it.
02:39 <+perlDreamer> Yes, but it won't be the only P6 out there.
02:41 < SDuensin> P6 confuses me.  :-)
02:41 <+perlDreamer> Which parts?
02:42 < SDuensin> Like if it's ever going to happen.  :-)
02:42 <+perlDreamer> Well, of this much I'm sure.  P6 may not ever exist, but P5 will look more and more like it over time.
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04:22 < Khaytsus> Sometime in the last 3-4 days, all of my assets disapeared off my server.. :(
04:23 < Khaytsus> Not in the trash, can't find them anywhere.
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04:44 < Khaytsus> This is very odd..  I can find my assets by searching, but nowhere else.
04:59 <@preaction> how about in the database? select * from asset; and pastebin an example
04:59 < Khaytsus> Will do
05:00 <@preaction> how about version tags? any major edit branches going on?
05:00 <@preaction> biggest question: what changed? who's been messing around?
05:01 <@preaction> "nothing" is not an answer to that question :p
05:01 < Khaytsus> Nobody, I'm the only person, it's my small personal website.
05:01 < Khaytsus> And unfortunately nothing is true; I haven't changed anything in a least a week and it was fine after.  And that was just an asset change.
05:01 < Khaytsus> (updating an article)
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05:04 < Khaytsus> http://panacea.theblackmoor.net:8082/junk/webgui-output
05:04 < Khaytsus> Not sure how I'd paste all that into pastebin :)
05:05 < Khaytsus> http://webgui.theblackmoor.net:8082/home/linux/v100
05:05 < Khaytsus> Is an article
05:05 < Khaytsus> But go up on, and notice no menu, etc..
05:07 < Khaytsus> erm, meant go up one level in the URL
05:27 < Khaytsus> I posted a forum thread on it too..
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05:34 < wgGuest18> man I hate pjirc.
05:35 < wgGuest18> hold on....
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05:36 < bobn> that's more lik it
05:36 < wgGuest18> bye
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05:37 < bobn> so anyo0ne around?
05:40 < bobn> anyhow, nioce to see something nwritten ninn perl issteads opf all this godless php
05:42 <@preaction> Khaytsus: can you alter that statement you wrote and "order by lineage" for me?
05:44 <@preaction> did you try altering any of the page layout templates?
05:53 < Khaytsus> preaction: I did try adding an asset to the /home but it didn't show up
05:54 <@preaction> i mean, previously, did you alter the page layout templates?
05:54 <@preaction> what does the error log say?
05:54 < Khaytsus> Oh, no errors I can see, and no, I hadn't altered any templates.  At least not for a long time.
05:54 < Khaytsus> Refresh that same page, I updated the sql output.
05:55 <@preaction> nothing out of the ordinary there... :(
05:57 <@preaction> you sure there's nothing in the webgui error log about "cannot call method 'view' on asset '...'"?
05:57 <@preaction> can you pastebin that whole thing?
05:57 <@preaction> perlbot pastebin
05:57 < perlbot> (see paste)
05:57 <@preaction> perlbot paste
05:57 < perlbot> Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.
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06:11 < Khaytsus> preaction: Sorry, got distracted.
06:11 < Khaytsus> Would that be from the spectre debug output?
06:13 < Khaytsus> Ah, hmmmmmm..
06:15 < Khaytsus> http://erxz.com/pb/3324
06:15 < Khaytsus> btw, ignore... um..  indescrete stuff.  I had one forum set up wrong. 
06:15 < Khaytsus> Some spammers posted 4-5 porn threads in it.
06:15 < Khaytsus> Still gets hit on search engines or what not
06:15 < Khaytsus> But yeah, I see some weird stuff about httpproxy
06:21 < Khaytsus> Searching for those, I can view the individual ones okay
06:21 < Khaytsus> They view correctly, etc..  so I dint' think my proxy assets are broken.
06:22 <+Radix-wrk> you sure you didn't accidentally delete /home or something like that?
06:22 <+Radix-wrk> it'd be in your trash, but not viewable via asset view or any other way unless you searched for it
06:22 < Khaytsus> Quite sure, nothing in the trash
06:22 <+Radix-wrk> alternatively you could've cut it on the clipboard - that would do much the same thing
06:22 < Khaytsus> I hadn't deleted anything in a while
06:23 <+Radix-wrk> wierd
06:23 < Khaytsus> It was fine 2 days ago..  I hadn't touched it at all.
06:24 <+Radix-wrk> what's /home/counter?
06:25 <@preaction> Khaytsus: looks like something very bad is going on with an httpproxy asset you have
06:25 <@rizen> bobn: thanks for the appreciation
06:25 <+Radix-wrk> wonder if that object failing is causing the whole page to die half way - and if it's on the home page or even in the style then that'd cause it
06:26 <+Radix-wrk> try hiding that object or something maybe
06:26 < Khaytsus> Yeah, that seems to be it..  but I have no idea what it could be
06:26 <@preaction> look at the line in question, that'll tell you where the problem is
06:26 <@preaction> you know perl?
06:26 < Khaytsus> A bit
06:26 < Khaytsus> http://webgui.theblackmoor.net:8082/home/counter---main
06:27 < Khaytsus> What Id on't get is it IS showing
06:27 < Khaytsus> If I pick it directly
06:27 <+Radix-wrk> it's not /home/counter---main that's failing tho
06:27 <+Radix-wrk> it's /home/counter according to your logs
06:28 < Khaytsus> aha, k
06:28 <+Radix-wrk> Oh no
06:28 <+Radix-wrk> I lie
06:28 <+Radix-wrk> my eyes hid the ---main bit from me ;)
06:28 <@preaction> there are other ones that are failing as well
06:29 < Khaytsus> Yeah
06:29 <+Radix-wrk> only /home/networking/mrtg/mrtg - which also works if you view it directly
06:30 < Khaytsus> yep..  That's what I don't understand.
06:31 <+Radix-wrk> restarted everything?
06:33 <@preaction> nothing's changed in that file since the branch, but something bad is going on.
06:33 < Khaytsus> Would a rollback possibly help?  I haven't tried that.
06:34 <@preaction> it might help you get back to working, but it won't fix this bug
06:35 <@preaction> select * from asset a join assetData ad on a.assetId = ad.assetId and ad.revisionDate = (select MAX(revisionDate) from assetData where assetData.assetId=a.assetId) join HttpProxy hp on a.assetId=hp.assetId AND hp.revisionDate=ad.revisionDate; # try running this and pastebin the output please?
06:38 < Khaytsus> Rolled back the last two changes, nohelp
06:38 < Khaytsus> k, will do
06:38 <@preaction> Khaytsus: is "follow external" on for those httpproxies?
06:40 < Khaytsus> Allow proxying of other domains?  No.  NOt seeing a "follow external"
06:40 <@preaction> yeah, that's the one
06:41 < Khaytsus> I ran that sql, output to the same file.
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06:42 < Khaytsus> btw, the URL to proxy is
06:42 < Khaytsus> http://theblackmoor.net/cgi-bin/allcounter.cgi?theblackmoor.net&/tipstricks.shtml
06:42 < Khaytsus> for example
06:43 < Khaytsus> A script I wrote, couldn't find a better counter so I decided to use it via http proxy
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06:43 <@preaction> i think the issue has to do with follow external, but for some reason there's no error message on the page
06:47 <@preaction> you might want to post this to the bugs list, make file attachments for the last few pages (100 lines maybe) of your webgui error log, and the results of that last query I had you run (which is info on all the httpproxy assets you have) there's something strange here
06:48 <@preaction> after that, to move forward, try deleting those httpproxy assets. maybe make a backup of your database in this state so if someone on the buglist asks you can refer back to it
06:49 <@preaction> how about before we do all that, we try something quick
06:49 <@preaction> change line 367 in lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/HttpProxy.pm to "if ($response && $response->is_success) {
06:51 <@preaction> then we'll also have to change line 400 to -- $var{content} = sprintf $i18n->get('fetch page error'), $proxiedUrl, $proxiedUrl, ($response ? $response->status_line : "");
06:51 <@preaction> save and restart the web server and see what happens
06:55 < Khaytsus> hmm, 500 error when restarting, not sure what did wrong on line 400 (401 actually)
06:56 <@preaction> what does the modperl error log say?
06:56 < Khaytsus> It's from spectre in the webgui log
06:56 <@preaction> what does your webserver doing?
06:57 <@preaction> looks like nothing's changed to me
06:57 < Khaytsus> ah, restarted spectre, nothing did change
06:58 <@preaction> you restarted the web server too? not just spectre?
06:58 < Khaytsus> Yep
06:58 <@preaction> hm... looks like it's to the bug list then :(
06:59 < Khaytsus> I'll stay in here...  I posted to this thread too
06:59 <@preaction> you may also want to remove the http proxy's one at a time (keeping track of the url of each one you remove), and find out when it starts working again
06:59 < Khaytsus> http://www.plainblack.com/etcetera/assets-have-disapeared
06:59 <@preaction> i'd start with the ones referred to in the error log
06:59 < Khaytsus> I'll try that tommorrow.
07:01 < Khaytsus> Thanks for your help and suggestions so far, I'll check in tommorrow.  Must sleep now
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07:08 < cap10morgan> Is there a way to store an object application-wide, so all sessions use the same instance of that object?
07:08 < Khaytsus> btw, I restored a database from before this happened... still broken
07:10 < Khaytsus> Off to bed for me
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07:26 <@preaction> cap10morgan: i believe it is possible in Perl, but i don't believe it works under mod_perl. you may want to try Storable and some sort of locking mechanism (or use locking in mysql perhaps)
07:27 < cap10morgan> so there's nothing built in to WebGUI to do that?
07:28 <@preaction> Wobject->setCollateral maybe?
07:31 < cap10morgan> hmm... i'll check it out
07:38 < cap10morgan> yeah, i don't think that will do it. it's a living, breathing Perl object w/ file handles and internal state, and all that jazz. not just data i can put in a db. hmm...
07:40 <@preaction> the idea sounds bad, there has to be another way to do it
07:41 < cap10morgan> it's an OpenID server library
07:41 < cap10morgan> you create an instance of the server object
07:41 < cap10morgan> that all requests share
07:41 < cap10morgan> i could maybe create a separate for each request instead, but it seems pretty inefficient
07:42 < cap10morgan> i'm writing an asset that makes WebGUI logins work as OpenIDs
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08:38 <@preaction> cap10morgan: you'd want to use an operation for that i assume
08:39 <@preaction> cap10morgan: it might even be prudent to put the openID stuff inside the viewProfile for the specific user
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10:09 <+Radix-wrk> Hmm.. shows where the money is - Endeca - a company that focuses on customised search engines for enterprise will apparently do about $100million in revenue this year.
10:11 <+Radix-wrk> Nice chunk of change there.
10:15  * Radix-wrk puts some more karma on some search engine rfe's.
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10:38 < brinaz> hi all
10:39 < brinaz> went to webgui wiki and got info to this channel.
10:39 < brinaz> i am new user to webgui.
10:39 < brinaz> wrote my first macro for testing.
10:40 <+Radix-wrk> Hiyas
10:40 <+Radix-wrk> Welcome to #webgui :)
10:41 < brinaz> thx radix
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11:46 < pjesi> good morning
11:47 <+Radix-wrk> afternoon
11:48 < pjesi> I am still getting complaints about IE6 caching WG pages for a long time even after updating to 7.3.18
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18:56 <+perlDreamer> bug --
18:57 < pjesi> the IE6 caching?
18:57 <+perlDreamer> sorry, no
18:58 <+perlDreamer> It wasn't even technically a bug, but a user who didn't read the carefully written online docs for SQL based group lookups.
18:58 < pjesi> ahh
18:58 <+perlDreamer> Although I do have a fix for the IE6 caching bug
18:58 <+perlDreamer> s/IE6/FireFox/
18:59 < pjesi> I was sure that the cache bug was fixed in .18 but it is still there
18:59 < pjesi> Im not aware of any problems with firefox
18:59 <+perlDreamer> I know, that's why you should replace IE6 with firefox
19:00 < pjesi> I do not have the power to tell the clients what to use
19:01 < pjesi> and this is only for anonymous users
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20:04 <+perlDreamer> bug --
20:05 <+Radix_> pjesi: try 7.3.19 perhaps?
20:05 -!- Radix_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.3.19 | WRE 0.7.2 ] - Come To The WUC http://www.plainblack.com/wuc
20:21 < pjesi> Radix_: nothing mentioned in .19 but yes I will upgrade over the weekend
20:22 <+perlDreamer> I don't think there were any cache fixes in .19, either
20:23 < pjesi> there are at least two posts on wb.org regarding this
20:25 <+perlDreamer> On the bug list, or the discussion board?
20:35 < pjesi> board
20:36 < pjesi> I recall that rizen told me that this was actually fixed in .18
20:36 <+perlDreamer> He did a lot of work to fix caching problems.
20:36 <+perlDreamer> Not only in the browser, but in the routers.
20:36 <+perlDreamer> I think finally he went back to the HTTP spec itself, and implemented what it suggested.
20:37 < pjesi> router related?
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20:37 < pjesi> I at least can not reproduce this bug here
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20:58 <+perlDreamer> wgGuest21, things are usually pretty quiet in channel
20:58 <+perlDreamer> so don't wait for people to start talking to ask questions
20:59 < wgGuest21> hello? I've never done this...
20:59 <+perlDreamer> You're doing fine so far.
20:59 <+perlDreamer> Do you have a WebGUI related question?
20:59 < wgGuest21> ok. I think I get this. I was talking with colink about a "bug" on pseudo groups. is he around?
20:59 <+perlDreamer> That's me
21:00 < wgGuest21> oh. Hi.  I'm working at home and have a baby so If I "walk" away, that's why. =)
21:00 <+perlDreamer> No problem.
21:00 < wgGuest21> so is everyone listening? just wondering how this works?
21:00 <+perlDreamer> It's like being in a chat room
21:01 <+perlDreamer> Everyone can see what you type.
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21:01 < wgGuest21> oh. so no ones saying anything but us. =)
21:01 <+perlDreamer> Like I mentioned earlier, it's pretty quiet in here most times.
21:01 < wgGuest21> So, let me understand this correctly. I have to return a valid  webgui UID (other than the visitor's which is '1') then it sounds like I need to store my user ids in both webgui and my external database? - I can't believe that people would port all their users over to webgui?
21:02 <+perlDreamer> That is an issue for some people, but it's how WebGUI has always worked.
21:03 <+perlDreamer> LDAP people have to create WebGUI accounts, but they can pull authentication info from there.
21:03 <+perlDreamer> there is work on a SSO system for WebGUI, but it won't be out until 7.4 or so.
21:03 < wgGuest21> is there a way I can override the exception on the UID for the visitor?
21:04 <+perlDreamer> I'm looking at the 7.4 code, and I don't see anything that says user can't be in some externally defined group.
21:04 <+perlDreamer> Check out Group.pm, like 300
21:04 <+perlDreamer> that's the isInGroup method
21:05 < wgGuest21> he he. I can't get to my webgui because I was vpnd and I had to log out to do this... I briefly looked at that. I'll take alook at it again. 
21:06 < wgGuest21> I tried adding the visitor user to my pseudo groups, but webgui didn't let me.
21:06 <+perlDreamer> Visitor shouldn't need to be in the group.
21:07 <+perlDreamer> to be a member via the SQL query.
21:07 < wgGuest21> that's what I thought too.
21:07 < wgGuest21> The other method I tried was this: I created a pseudo user in webgui for each of the pseudo SQL-based queries and modified the queries to return the one UID for that group - which worked, but it required them to login to webgui. So the question then is, how do I accomplish a single sign on without porting all my external users to webqui?
21:08 < wgGuest21> that avoided the "porting all my users to webgui" issue. but I still was forced to login to webgui.
21:08 < wgGuest21> forget the "So the question then is, how do I accomplish a single sign on without porting all my external users to webqui? " statement
21:09 <+perlDreamer> Plain Black implemented a SSO system between PlainBlack.com and webgui.org
21:10 <+perlDreamer> but they logged into 1 webgui site and share the credentials between the two sites.
21:10 <+perlDreamer> I think logging into the wG site may be mandatory.
21:10 <+perlDreamer> but whether they need to create an account is different.
21:10 <+perlDreamer> Is that kind of solution okay?
21:14 < wgGuest21> hmmm I dont' know if I followed other than the user still needs to login to webgui. I'd like to avoid that. I'm still thinking if I can return the id of visitor it would be the smoothist. I'll have to take a look at the code in group.pm to see if there is somethign there that is obvious. If SQL query groups need to return a UID, than '1' should work - I would think.
21:14 < wgGuest21> I'm assuming I have to return a string since all the other UIDs are strings.
21:16 < wgGuest21> I also looked into writting my own auth module, but then all my current webgui users would have to be stored in my other database right?
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21:19 <+perlDreamer> If you wrote your own auth module, any user logging into WebGUI would need to have a WebGUI account.
21:23 <+perlDreamer> have a look at this macro from the contribs section
21:23 <+perlDreamer> http://www.webgui.org/user_contributions/user_contributions/macros/singlesignon-macro-webgui7#yfT0CwwUAT1XkByjxwGWUg
21:27 <+perlDreamer> I think it does what you want.
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21:35 < ckotil> who's gonna be waiting in line for an iphone?
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21:36 < wgGuest55> hello. I'm back. I vpn'd to work to look at the code, so if perlDreamer said anything I didn't get it...
21:36 < wgGuest55> Oh. I see I'm a new person, but webGuest21 is still listed. 
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21:37 < wgGuest55> I triple checked my groups. My group is return '1' if I can validate with the cookies content, '0' if not. (read I'm returning strings)
21:38 <+perlDreamer> have a look at this macro from the contribs section
21:39 <+perlDreamer> http://www.webgui.org/user_contributions/user_contributions/macros/singlesignon-macro-webgui7#yfT0CwwUAT1XkByjxwGWUg
21:39 < wgGuest55> This was a change from before. Now it seems that my page is ALWAYS visible. I think this is because of line 288 in User.pm: return 1 if ($gid eq '1' && $uid eq '1');    # visitors are in the visitors group
21:40 <+perlDreamer> That may be due to group caching.
21:40 < wgGuest55> oh. how do I clear that?  BTW, I'm not useing any macro from the contribs area...? unles you think that SSO one would be helpful?
21:41 <+perlDreamer> It sounds like it does the very thing you want.
21:41 <+perlDreamer> But you should check it out.
21:42 <+perlDreamer> I'm not sure how to clear the group caching, I'd have to dig through the code.
21:42 <+perlDreamer> 7.4 is supposed to be out in the end of July with some kind of SSO built-in
21:42 <+perlDreamer> You sure you can't wait until then?
21:43 < ckotil> i have a CAS SSO module.
21:44 < ckotil> thats what JT went with right?
21:44 < ckotil> http://www.ja-sig.org/products/cas/
21:44 < ckotil> created by yale.
21:44 < ckotil> the IU CAS is slightly differnet. so my cas module pry wont work anywhere else but in my university.
21:48 < wgGuest55> story short, I prefer not to wait. I looked at the macro from Issac 2006 is that the one  you're looking at?
21:48 <+perlDreamer> yes
21:51 < wgGuest55> so If I understand this macro correctly, it changes the user on the fly?
21:51 <+perlDreamer> I haven't read the macro
21:54 < wgGuest55> ckotil, I have downloaded your module, as code to look at in case I do have to write my own auth. I'm assuming that if I write my own auth module, my current webgui users have to be moved to my external database?
21:58 < ckotil> yes.
21:58 < ckotil> the way mine works anyway.
21:59 < ckotil> the university maintains the db.
21:59 < ckotil> so im doing just the opposite and have to recreate all the accounts in webgui.
21:59 < ckotil> eventually i want to get all of my contacts setup in an ldap server to sync with the webgui db. but thats just not feasible at this point in time
21:59 < ckotil> s/contacts/users
22:00 < ckotil> it was pretty easy hacking the webgui.pm auth module to work with IU's CAS.
22:00 < ckotil> soon we may be ditching the university CAS system for a SSO we control. 
22:00 < ckotil> we like Cosign
22:01 < ckotil> would be sweet if wG chose that =]
22:01 <+perlDreamer> What about OpenID?
22:02 < ckotil> never heard of it.
22:02 <+perlDreamer> http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/openid
22:02 <+perlDreamer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_id
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22:15 < wgGuest55> so, if you have all your users in an external database, how do the webgui built-in groups work? do you port those to your external db as well?
22:16 < ckotil> nope. all inrenal to webgui
22:16 < ckotil> internal too.
22:17 < ckotil> its not the most efficient thing in the world, but it works for now. until we begin integrating services into webgui.
22:17 < wgGuest55> then how do you log in as admin? can you use two auth mods at the same time? is the admin user in webgui or the external db?
22:19 < ckotil> http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/06/29/bmw_iphone_integration_woz_in_line_fox_news_mic_jacking.html
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22:24 < wgGuest55> huh?
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22:40 < wgGuest55> I'm logging out again
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22:49 < ckotil> heading out.
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23:13 < brinaz> hi all
23:19 <+perlDreamer> yo
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23:45 <+perlDreamer> Haarg: I'm looking at fixing the bug you posted.  Did you have any specific ideas for fixing it, or am I free to dream stuff up?
23:46 <@Haarg> which bug?
23:46 <+perlDreamer> The package import error log one
23:47 < SDuensin> Hey perlDreamer - I'm all kinds of excited for 7.3.19.  Working on installing it now!
23:47 <@Haarg> no particular ideas, no
23:48 <+perlDreamer> okay, thanks.  I'm thinking of putting in an assetExists method so you can call the right thing and skip the message.
23:48 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin. Cool.  Why are you excited?
23:48 < SDuensin> Because you fixed a lot of bugs that were causing me heartaches!
23:49 <+perlDreamer> You keep posting 'em, we'll keep fixing them :)
23:51 < SDuensin> Well, if I find more, I'll post 'em.  Bugs MUST DIE!
23:52 <+perlDreamer> indeed
23:53 < SDuensin> Now if only you could fix my RAM usage issues on my server.  <sigh>
23:54 < SDuensin> WebGUI keeps butting me against my hard limit.
23:54 <+perlDreamer> I can fix that too.
23:54 <+perlDreamer> RAM is cheap
23:54 < SDuensin> If I owned the hardware, it'd not be an issue.
23:55 <+perlDreamer> Have you unloaded unused Assets and Macros?  That can help a little.
23:56 <@preaction> change the apache2::sizelimit, perhaps change the number of worker threads that get called
23:56 <@preaction> will change out ram usage for response time
23:57 <+perlDreamer> Is there a wiki page for this kind of stuff?  Others would find it useful, too.
23:57 < SDuensin> I'll look into that.  Still running a backup so I can load 7.3.19.
23:57 < SDuensin> Yea.  Wiki it!  :-D
23:57 <+perlDreamer> SD: If this stuff works, make a cool wiki page with what you've learned on it.
23:57 <@preaction> not that i know of, this is just basic server stuff
23:57 <@preaction> SDuensin: more importantly, watch top and vmstat for a while and see what's going on with the memory usage
23:58 <@preaction> you might be able to change the swappiness to move some processes to swap instead
23:58 <@preaction> at the expense of disk I/O should you need those processes (which is very very bad)
--- Day changed Sat Jun 30 2007
00:00 < SDuensin> I'm hoping to get more stuff moved to WebGUI so I can turn off my other Apache.
00:00 <@preaction> you have the WRE running?
00:01 < SDuensin> Yes.
00:01 <@preaction> why not use the mod_proxy instance to run those?
00:01 <@preaction> it'd be as simple as moving the virtualhost blocks to a <file>.modproxy into /data/wre/etc
00:01 < SDuensin> I'll look into that.
00:03 < SDuensin> Yea.  Here's an example of my problem:
00:03 < SDuensin> Which mirror would you like to download from? [plainblack] 
00:03 < SDuensin> Downloading from mirror:                Out of memory!
00:05 <@preaction> how much memory / swap do you have free right now?
00:05 < SDuensin> Mem:   8298332k total,  8282788k used,    15544k free,    52616k buffers
00:05 < SDuensin> Swap:  6289436k total,     2236k used,  6287200k free,  4535604k cached
00:05 < SDuensin> I've never had to deal with this before.  I usually just pop in more RAM.
00:06 <@preaction> uhm... what limit is it butting up against? you have 6 gigabytes of available swap
00:06 < SDuensin> I don't know.  This is a VM running under VPS.
00:06 <@preaction> that's the WRE install/update script, right?
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00:07 < SDuensin> Yes.
00:07 < SDuensin> Here's from VPS:
00:07 < SDuensin> ID	Current Use	Soft Limit	Hard Limit	Units	Description	 
00:07 < SDuensin> privvmpages	513,486	524,288	524,288	4KB pages	Memory allocation limit
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00:48 < SDuensin> Anybody here have any experience with 1and1?
00:50 <@preaction> yes'm
00:51 < SDuensin> Good, bad, or otherwise?
00:51 <@preaction> they've handled my DNS and domains for about three years now
00:51 < SDuensin> Nice.
00:51 <@preaction> nothing bad to say about them, good clean admin interface
00:51 <@preaction> cheep
00:51 <@preaction> i like their dns settings, i don't have to choose their way or my own DNS, i can do a lot of custom dns stuff
00:53 < SDuensin> This RAM limit is getting on my nerves.  I can get 1 GB (got 512 now) with 1and1 for the same price I pay LiquidWeb.
00:53 <@preaction> why not plainblack? *cough*
00:54 < SDuensin> Not everything I run is WebGUI.  I need root access.
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02:10 <+perlDreamer> bug --
02:11 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: karma bug
02:11 < perlbot> Karma for bug: 1
02:11 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: karma bugs
02:11 < perlbot> Karma for bugs: -2
02:11 <+perlDreamer> bugs --
02:19 <+perlDreamer> dang!
02:19 <+perlDreamer> somebody figured out how to make SQL Form work with WebGUI's db?
02:19 <+perlDreamer> nuts
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06:29 < wgGuest79> hello.  I'm looking at the Group.pm at line 563 version 7.2.1 and it looks like this: my %users = map { $_ => 1 } @users;
06:29 < wgGuest79> Am I to understand that this rewrites the users array to only contains items greater than or equal to one?
06:38 < wgGuest79> hello?
06:50 < wgGuest79> Gotta go get some sleep. bye.
06:50 < vayde> No, that's putting each element of @users as the key and 1 as the value
06:50 < vayde> in the %users hash
06:50 < vayde> sorry bout the delay
06:50 < wgGuest79> hi.
06:51 < wgGuest79> Trying to figure out how to logout of this...  But the next line of code does this: @users = keys %users;
06:51 < vayde> hey.  Things get a bit quiet here on a Friday night
06:51 < wgGuest79> so I don't really understand what those two lines are doing.
06:52 < vayde> seems a little redundant to be sure
06:52 < vayde> this is wG 7.2.1?
06:52 < wgGuest79> yep.
06:53 < vayde> hmm.  I cut my teeth on 7.3, but lemme take a look
06:53 < vayde> from what you posted, the second line is almost useless
06:53 < vayde> unless %users already exists
06:54 < vayde> the first line is putting everything from @users into %users
06:54 < wgGuest79> nope. the first line I showed declares it.
06:54 < wgGuest79> that would explain why commenting it out didn't do anything. =)
06:54 < vayde> yeah
06:55 < wgGuest79> I was talking with colink eariler today. and to make a long story short, I've got a  pseduo group that uses an sql query to return webgui uids. I *WANT* to return the visitors uid which is the number one.
06:55 < wgGuest79> but somewhere in the code, there seems to be an exception to doing that... I thought maybe I found it. =(
06:55 < vayde> the only use I can see for that would be if there was already data in %users, and you added to it, then updated @users with the full list
06:56 < vayde> hmm, well colink/perl_dreamer is one of the best guys here to ask
06:56 < wgGuest79> do you by anychance konw how to clear the user/group cache?
06:57 < vayde> not off the top of my head.  my wG is getting pretty rusty
06:57 < vayde> can't you just flush the whole cache from the settings menu?
06:57 < vayde> or maybe I'm misunderstanding
06:58 < wgGuest79> I tried that, but I dont' think that does the user/group. On that particular screen it says someting about the asset cache. So I don't think it does. I don't know how to verify it either way.
06:59 < wgGuest79> do you know how to log out of this? before, I just closed the screen, and then logged in again and saw my old user still listed. I'm using the chat software provided by wG.
07:00 < vayde> sorry, no.  I didn't know wG HAD chat software.
07:00  * vayde grins sheepishly
07:01 < wgGuest79> http://www.webgui.org/webgui/chat.html - it just comes up... I'm new to this chat thing.
07:01 < vayde> looking
07:02 < wgGuest79> what software do you recommend? This one is lacking in something.
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07:03 < vayde> I'm using xchat from ubuntu linux
07:03 < vayde> you can get here with pidgin pretty easily though
07:03 <@preaction> colloquy on OSX, mIRC on windows, etc...
07:03 < vayde> hit preaction with your question btw, he'll probably know
07:03 <@preaction> chatzilla works nicely too
07:04 <@preaction> yay for being k-lined!
07:04 < wgGuest79> hi preaction.
07:04 <@preaction> more like, yay for using work computers to ssh tunnel into freenode to resolve the k-line...
07:04 <@preaction> i mean
07:05 < vayde> lol
07:05 < wgGuest79> I was talking with colink eariler today. and to make a long story short, I've got a  pseduo group that uses an sql query to return webgui uids. I *WANT* to return the visitors uid which is the number one But somewhere in the code, there seems to be an exception against doing such thing.
07:06 < wgGuest79> Any ideas where this may be? I looked in Groups.pm, User.pm. without much luck. Specifically at the functions: getDatabaseUsers, getAllUsers and isInGroup.
07:06 <@preaction> let me discover the feature you're talking about and see what's up with it
07:07 < wgGuest79> I'm using wG 7.2.1
07:08 <@preaction> what's the query?
07:08 <@preaction> perlbot paste
07:08 < perlbot> Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.
07:08 <@preaction> better, http://pastebin.ca <- use that instead
07:08 < wgGuest79> the query is a query to an external database that uses three ids stored from a cookie tolook up a user's information.  The cookie's data and the query itself has been verified by runningn it in a sqlreport.
07:09 <@preaction> i need the actual query
07:10 < wgGuest79> basically the query either returns 1 or 0.  (one - being the visitors uid) I tried this similarly with actual webgui uids and it works great but I want th visitor's uid.
07:10 <@preaction> nothing in the error log?
07:11 < wgGuest79> nope.
07:11 < wgGuest79> I have to log out to get it.  I need to vpn to get the code. Is there any other code you want me to get before I do this?
07:11 <@preaction> no, as long as it's all verified working (but that means i'm taking your word for it, which is probably not a good idea)
07:11 <@preaction> it works with normal IDs, but not the ID "1"
07:12 < wgGuest79> correct
07:12 < wgGuest79> that's why I think there is some exception disallowing ID "1" somewhere.
07:13 < wgGuest79> one qustion I have is whether to return '1' or 1 (number or string) I think I should be returning a string being that all the other uids are strings. - I'm currently returning  the string '1'
07:13 <@preaction> it shouldn't matter, but the string would probably be best, i remember having some problems with mysql and numbers v. strings
07:13 <@preaction> mysql will interpret 3 = "3sdfaweraowefawlefjaewf" as true
07:14 < wgGuest79> single quotes right?
07:14 <@preaction> yeah
07:14 <@preaction> nothing in the operation adds anything to the dbquery that restricts to a single user
07:14 <@preaction> you might want to grab the group's definition from the database too
07:14 <@preaction> select * from groups where groupId = <whatever>
07:15 < vayde> wgGuest79, ping me sometime and I can talk you around the vpn issue
07:15 < vayde> I'm vpn'ed into the bank at the moment, and still chatting on freenode
07:16 < wgGuest79> oh... that's my networking guy at work. I think he disabled it. Too many people abusing chat and stuff.
07:16 <@preaction> yay for BOFH
07:16 <@preaction> some days i want to learn MIS / Networking just so I can BOFH
07:16 < vayde> everything is locked down at my work.  like I said, there are ways around it
07:17 <@preaction> vpn another compy into it and ssh into that compy perhaps?
07:17 <@preaction> two nic cards required?
07:17 <@preaction> i've never had to vpn
07:17 < vayde> parprouted on the wireless, and a virtual machine
07:18 < vayde> bank won't allow wireless, bridged connections, or non-xp on vpn
07:18 <@preaction> the VM can have as many nic cards as it wants, nice
07:18 < vayde> so of course I'm running ubuntu, wireless, and a bridged connection
07:18  * vayde grins evilly
07:18 < wgGuest79> I vpn to work to get into my webgui install. The webgui isn't live yet, so it isn't public, nor is the server. I'll be back... I haven't figured out how to logout of this thing, so I'll be the next wgGuest person
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07:19 < vayde> he can't log out of the chat client apparently
07:19 <@preaction> it's 11:00p and i'm still working on this javascript app... i got to learn how to build trees using both perl and javascript
07:19 < vayde> fun fun fun
07:19 <@preaction> and how to create the right instructions to rebuild the tree in a stupid language like HTML::Template
07:19 < vayde> hows things in general?
07:19 <@preaction> i appreciate the Navigation wobject so much right now
07:19 < vayde> you don't like HTML::Template?
07:19 <@preaction> i love it, it's just stupid
07:19 <@preaction> it's not smart
07:20 < vayde> ahh, stupid, not stupid
07:20 <@preaction> with TT i could probably do some recursive jazz
07:20 <@preaction> as it is i need to make the instructions on how to build a tree into an array, not just give it a tree
07:20 <@preaction> using such nastiness as indentLoop => [ {}, {}, {}, ];
07:20 < vayde> I wish I could change places with you for a couple of days.  One look at the crap I'm working with and you'd never complain again
07:20 <@preaction> lol
07:21 <@preaction> it's the vpn i don't understand, how is that more secure than an ssh tunnel?
07:21 < vayde> this sh* is a great object lesson in the difference between CAN and SHOULD
07:21 < vayde> I don't know that it is
07:21 <@preaction> oh god, that's always fun
07:21 < vayde> I think somebody thinks it is
07:22 <@preaction> getting people to back down from things they think they need but will just sit unused...
07:22 < vayde> plus with the vpn on windows at least they can shut down all your ports
07:22 < vayde> so you can only go through the vpn tunnel
07:22 < vayde> I don't knwo how that works with a real OS
07:22 <@preaction> with proper user accounting it's simple: if someone breaks the rules, you fire them.
07:23 < vayde> It's stupid though.  If they can't trust me doing things on their network, they can't trust me.  Doesn't matter how I get there
07:23 <@preaction> that too
07:23 < vayde> all it does is slow me down
07:23 <@preaction> it's like they're treating you as a child
07:23 < vayde> I swear there are specs somewhere saying that all software used by the bank must:
07:24 < vayde> a) suck
07:24 < vayde> b) be unreliable
07:24 < vayde> c)be bloated
07:24 < vayde> d) cost way too much $$$
07:24 <@preaction> oh, aren't you eventually porting that Perl to Java? and they wanted to get rid of the bloat/unreliability/suck?
07:25 < vayde> no, I don't think they want to get rid of it
07:25 < vayde> I think they're happy with it
07:25 <@preaction> they hired some real idiots to design this software i imagine, which might be the reason for their current security policy
07:25 < vayde> wouldn't want one piece of software to stand out would you?
07:25 < vayde> It's an interesting education
07:25 <@preaction> some people don't realize what early design decisions can do to a software project :(
07:25 < vayde> I don't know how long I'll put up with it, but I'm glad of the experience
07:26 < vayde> yeah
07:26 < vayde> some of the things they tried to do made some kind of sense, but they didnt stick iwth their 'standards'
07:26 <@preaction> probably didn't enter their heads, but it rarely does
07:26 < vayde> and there's a cherished love of complexity
07:26 <@preaction> (to publish a coding standard)
07:26 < vayde> yeah
07:27 < vayde> plus some of the folks watched 'Office Space' and thought it was a documentary
07:27 < vayde> or a training film
07:27 <@preaction> depends on the type of complexity, i've been reading the Unix Hater's Guide, and there's some wonderful bits about the philosophy of "simple over functional"
07:27 <@preaction> lol
07:27 <@preaction> "Is this good for the company?"
07:28 < vayde> well, by the code they write, they never heard of laziness, impatience, or hubris
07:29 <@preaction> the virtues! how i pine for thee!
07:29 <@preaction> perlbot virtues
07:29 < perlbot> Laziness, Impatience, Hubris, Diligence, Patience and Humility
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07:30 < vayde> hey, I picked up an xps m1210, I see what you mean about your philosophy of laptops
07:30 < wgGuest97> hi. I'm back. where do you want this stuff?
07:30 <@preaction> http://pastebin.ca
07:31 <@preaction> vayde: refresh me?
07:31 <@preaction> lappy doesn't run servers?
07:31 <@preaction> was that ubuntu pre-loaded even?
07:31  * preaction says a lot of wise things and remembers almost none of them 
07:31 < vayde> I had that monster Inspiron 9300
07:32 < vayde> you said something about preferring light and small, and leaving the power for a desktop
07:32 <@preaction> ahh
07:32 <@preaction> it is tiny too
07:32 < vayde> I dunno, I became a believer once I had to lug the monster around
07:32 <@preaction> but it doesn't have ubuntu pre-loaded :(
07:32 < vayde> naw
07:33 <@preaction> that lappy + ubuntu fiesty + beryl = rival to windows vista at half the processing expense
07:33 < vayde> and I'm a little disappointed in the graphics card too
07:33 < wgGuest97> I put a 15 minute experiation on it. not exactly something I want public. 
07:33 < wgGuest97> I up loaded the sql. You want the details of the group too?
07:33 <@preaction> wgGuest97: if there's something in it that's not secure, then the security policy of the site might need to be rethought
07:33 <@preaction> yes please
07:34 < vayde> It's awesome, except for the turbo cache crap.  I should have paid closer attention
07:34 <@preaction> turbo cache?
07:34 < vayde> probably would have bought it anyway though
07:34 < vayde> I thought I was buying a 256 meg Nvidia 7800
07:34 < vayde> 633FSB
07:34 < vayde> it's only got 64 megs onthe card
07:35 < vayde> pulls the rest from system
07:35 <@preaction> god i hate that
07:35 < vayde> it just wasn't labeled clearly
07:35 <@preaction> might've been better off with the I950
07:35 < vayde> Oh, but the FSB is so fast you'll never notice!
07:35 < vayde> oh well, to be honest, I wasn't gonna do much gaming on a 12 inch screen anyway
07:36 <@preaction> well, no
07:36 <@preaction> how thin is it? almost looks more portable than the mbp
07:36 < vayde> It runs Beryl fine, some of the fancier stuff lags a little
07:36 < vayde> inch, inch and a half
07:36 < vayde> somewhere in there
07:36 < vayde> just under 4 lbs
07:36 < vayde> it's a dell, and therefore a brick
07:37 < vayde> I bought a vaio SZ, but returned it
07:37 < vayde> that was tiny and light, but I didn't like it
07:37 < vayde> fingerprint scanner between the mouse buttons made linux hell
07:37 < wgGuest97> groups detail is up now.  I hope that was all you needed?
07:37 <@preaction> i need links to these things?
07:38 <@preaction> wgGuest97: links to the pastebins?
07:38 < vayde> Oh well, I'm outta here.  Good talking to you Doug.  ttyl
07:38 <@preaction> cya, good luck
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07:39 < wgGuest97> http://pastebin.ca/596731 - is the groups details.
07:39 < wgGuest97> http://pastebin.ca/596727 - is the sql statement (which is also shown in the groups details)
07:40 < wgGuest97> they are listed under the user: wg97
07:41 <@preaction> did you try ELSE NULL?
07:43 < wgGuest97> nope. I can try that... but I'll have to log out again.
07:43 <@preaction> so we'll get a bunch of things to try then
07:44 < wgGuest97> I alos just posted isInGroup. I think there is something there that may be preventin gme from returning visitors uid. but I'm not seing it...
07:45 <@preaction> did you clear the cache after you edited the query that returned '1' or '0'? 
07:45 <@preaction> user/group relationships get cached
07:45 <@preaction> that'd be the first thing to check
07:45 <@preaction> there's nothing in there that prevents a visitor from belonging to other groups
07:45 <@preaction> there's something in there that says visitors are in the visitors group, sure
07:46 <@preaction> or that not-visitors are in the registered users group
07:46 < wgGuest97> I tried clearing the cache, but I didn't know whether that cleared just content, or users and groups as well.
07:46 <@preaction> those three lines are to improve performance, if they weren't there, everything would go on as normal
07:46 <@preaction> clear the cache the fun way: rm -rf /tmp/WebGUICache
07:46 < wgGuest97> I can't add the visitor user to any group. WebGUI's GUI prevents that.
07:47 < wgGuest97> I alos posted http://pastebin.ca/596739 getAllUsers. Lines 29 and 30 looke suspicious, but the other chat guy said they didn' do anything.
07:47 <@preaction> right, the GUI in Operation/User.pm prevents that
07:48 <@preaction> they aren't suspicious, they're removing duplicates
07:49 < wgGuest97> oh.
07:49 <@preaction> you can only have one key in a hash with the same name (in this case, user Ids)
07:53 < wgGuest97> hmm. so I'm at a loss.  I'm anxious to try these two things. is there anythign else you can think of that I can try?
07:54 <@preaction> not really, unless you want to try using integer instead of string
07:54 <@preaction> remember to clear cache after changing that query
07:54 < wgGuest97> Do you think I need to add visitor to my group?  Accordign to the documentation (hover help) I shouldn't have to. 
07:55 < wgGuest97> never mind. I can't...
07:55 <@preaction> you shouldn't have to
07:55 < wgGuest97> ok. I'll try these. bye
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08:02 < wgGuest90> well.
08:02 < wgGuest90> I guess im 90 now.
08:03 < wgGuest90> returning a string AND using ELSE NULL, the page is ALWAYS visible no matter if the three macros return valid data or not.
08:03 < wgGuest90> If I return a number 1 the page is hidden. no matter whether the three macros return valid data or not.
08:04 < wgGuest90> I should explain that this is a SSO system. The personid, divisionid, companyid return ids stored from a cookie set from another site. The data in that cookie isused on the other site, so I know that the data is correct.
08:05 < wgGuest90> hope that makes sense.
08:06 < wgGuest90> so inother words whether I'm loggedin or not with the correct creditials. The first page always displays, and the second page always displays the login screen. (i'm dealing with two different groups - similar queries)
08:07 <@preaction> i don't know then man. you might have to do a custom auth module to accomplish this :(
08:08 <@preaction> (overload the isInGroup method to accomodate your users most likely, but there are other complications)
08:08 <@preaction> there's a thread on the dev list about installing your own modules to replace the WebGUI default ones, but still keep the webgui default ones
08:08 <@preaction> then you could override anything you wanted
08:10 < wgGuest90> do you think somewhere there is the logic that a visitor is ALWAYS associated with the VISITOR's group?
08:10 <@preaction> no
08:11 <@preaction> well yes
08:11 <@preaction> but not only the visitors group
08:13 < wgGuest90> is there more to that last thought?
08:14 <@preaction> no
08:14 <@preaction> visitors are automatically part of the visitors group, but i imagine can be part of other groups too
08:14 <@preaction> the GUI may prevent things, but the API does not
08:15 <@preaction> API prevents only things that will cause fatal errors
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08:17 < wgGuest90> well. now that I know how to clear the cache, I'll try more things tomorrow. I would think that i should be able to return 1 as a uid - because it IS a valid uid.... Thanks very much for your help!
08:21 < wgGuest90> hmmm. are you still there?
08:24 < wgGuest90> oh never mind. buy
08:24 < wgGuest90> bye. that is.
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09:16 <@preaction> lol you know you've done too much perl when you get this error in javascript (and laugh)
09:16 <@preaction> "undef is not defined"
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15:37 < wgGuest03> hi
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--- Log closed Sun Jul 01 00:00:49 2007