--- Log opened Thu Jun 07 17:51:11 2007
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23:50 < wgGuest39> hello
23:51 < wgGuest39> i need help
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--- Day changed Fri Jun 08 2007
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02:01 < ckotil> any reason why I cant return www_managePendingVersions() instead of www_manageVersions() at the end of www_approveVersionTag() ? it takes me to the adminOnly() screen...and im admin. any ideas?
02:02 < ckotil> im working in Operations/ VersionTag.pm
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07:16 <+perlDreamer> Using WebGUI::Form, how do you change the text shown in a button from Save to something else?
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13:36 < pjesi> morgning
13:37 < pjesi> I finally managed to figure out what got fubar after updating to .18
13:39 < pjesi> the CS table has not been migrated
13:39 < pjesi> so SQL statements fails
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16:20 < SDuensin> Greetings.
16:36 < ckotil> hello
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16:40 < SDuensin> Hi ckotil & AMH_bob 
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16:53 < AMH_bob> Good morning!
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20:28 <+perlDreamer> Hey, folks
20:30 < SDuensin> Hey perlDreamer 
20:32 <+perlDreamer> I've been buried in chips.  Anything cool happening out here?
20:34 < SDuensin> Not that I've noticed.  :-/
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22:38 <@rizen> I'm socially retarded
22:38  * SDuensin chuckles
22:41 <+perlDreamer> How do you figure?
22:42 <@rizen> you tell me, i'm the retarded one
22:42 <+perlDreamer> I'm no better
22:43 < SDuensin> You're both nuts.
22:44 <+perlDreamer> Besides, you're part geek, and it's just part of the package
22:44 <+perlDreamer> And, of course, we have to be extra patient with java-hacking geeks
22:45 < SDuensin> Yea!  Those lamers!
22:45 <@rizen> one of these days colin, pow! straight to the moon.
22:45  * SDuensin has been in C++ and Lua lately.
22:46 < SDuensin> Colin?
22:46 <@rizen> sduensin needs to be studying perl and yui so he can make webgui desktop
22:46 <+perlDreamer> Yes.
22:46 <+perlDreamer> Abandon you're java follies and stay on the true path!
22:46 <+perlDreamer> There is no J in LAMP
22:46 < SDuensin> Unfortunately, there is no LAMP at WORK.
22:47  * perlDreamer notes that there is no P in WORK
22:47 <@rizen> step 1: become bruce wayne wealthy
22:47 <@rizen> step 2: build webgui desktop in your newfound free time
22:48 < SDuensin> Tell ya what.  You provide #1 and I'll gladly do #2.
22:48 < nuba> heh
22:48 <+perlDreamer> ditto
22:48 <+perlDreamer> ala Mark Shuttleworth
22:48 <+perlDreamer> see, we even know the strategy works
22:49 <+perlDreamer> rizen: feel like helping me close some bugs?  Do  you have time?
22:51 <@rizen> i neither feel like it nor have the time for it, or i'd be doing it myself...but if you pose questions i'll do my best to respond with something that simulates an answer
22:52 <+perlDreamer> Is it a bug if there someone sets the user session timeout to 0?  This causes people to be automatically logged out after logging in.
22:54 <@rizen> so is your question, if they are an idiot, should we let them be, or should we protect them from themselves?
22:55 <+perlDreamer> Yes :)   I'm leaning toward letting them shoot themselves, and suggesting they put in an rfe for a 15 minute minimum.
22:57 <@rizen> rfe it is
23:00 <+perlDreamer> Next one. When a package is deployed, hidden assets become visible.  Is this by design, or is it a bug?
23:01 <@rizen> yung is already working on that one
23:02 <+perlDreamer> How about the byte ordering problem with the Poll and Storable?
23:07 <@rizen> no idea what you're talking about
23:08 <+perlDreamer> A user switched from a G4 to an Intel Xserve, both running OS X.  Storable started complaining about byte ordering inside of the Poll, relating to the Graph module.
23:08 <+perlDreamer> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/polls-not-working-on-os-x-intel#XL71AxwxkpvKi5to2Iu7kA
23:12 <@rizen> that's a problem with Storable
23:12 <@rizen> nothing we can do about it
23:13 <@rizen> it's a known issue with using storable. the only option we would have is to switch everybody to using some text based serialization system rather than a binary one like storable
23:13 <+perlDreamer> Like JSON, YAML or Dumper.
23:14 <@rizen> yup
23:14 <+perlDreamer> And we use Storable all over the place.
23:15  * SDuensin likes JSON.
23:16 <+perlDreamer> It does mean that WebGUI packages are not cross platform.
23:17 <+perlDreamer> Polls, Events, SQLForms, SyndicatedContent, WSClient all use Storable.
23:17 <@rizen> Packages don't use storable
23:17 <@rizen> they use json
23:17 <@rizen> for that very reason
23:19 <+perlDreamer> Some of the Assets store Storable blobs in the db.
23:23 <@rizen> fine, but that doesn't mean the package system is compromised
23:23 <@rizen> it means those assets are
23:24 <+perlDreamer> right, only packages with assets that store stuff in the db are not portable.
23:24 <+perlDreamer> So far, that only appears to be the Poll
23:25 <@rizen> you should kick mrhairgrease in the nutz for that one
23:26 < SDuensin> Can't you just patch Storable?
23:30 <@rizen> can't you just tell a 32bit system to be a 64 bit system
23:31 < SDuensin> You can, but it'll just giggle.
23:31 <@rizen> then you understand why you can't patch storable
23:31 < SDuensin> perlDreamer said it was an endian problem.  Not a data size problem.
23:32 < SDuensin> Big difference.  :-)
23:32 <@rizen> i'm not saying it's a 32 bit vs 64 bit problem
23:32 <@rizen> i'm saying it's an architecture problem
23:32 <@rizen> it's not something that can be fixed
23:32 <@rizen> it's simply the difference between two platforms
23:33 < SDuensin> Sounds like Storable is kinda crappy.  :-)
23:35 <+perlDreamer> Not crappy, just not portable.
23:35 < SDuensin> Not portable IS crappy!
23:35  * SDuensin is Mr. Portable.
23:36 <@rizen> no, sduensin is mr potable
23:36  * SDuensin suppresses rude comments about rizen "drinking" him.
23:36 <@rizen> you like things to be drinkable, don't you?
23:37 < SDuensin> Yes.  And when my C++ compiler comes out later tonight, I *WILL* be drinking.  :-)
23:47 < SDuensin> OK, it's weekend time!  Later all!
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23:59 <+perlDreamer> You still buried, rizen?
--- Day changed Sat Jun 09 2007
00:00 <@rizen> always man
00:00 <@rizen> always
00:02 <@rizen> it's what happens when you try to grow a company into an empire
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01:01 <+perlDreamer> whoa, a perlbot
01:40 <+perlDreamer> rizen: in the Image asset, why does setSize take the greater of the extra input or the file?
01:40 <+perlDreamer>  my $size = ($input > $storage->getFileSize($self->get("filename"))) ? $input : $storage->getFileSize($self->get("filename"));
01:41 <+perlDreamer> It's really old, rev 3 code
01:42 <@rizen> i believe it's because input is always zero unless it is bigger
01:42 <@rizen> so it's a non zero test
01:47 <+perlDreamer> I've been working on SDuensin's file sizing bug (assets report the wrong size after commit).  That method is causing the bug.  I tested discarding the one from Image and inheriting from File and it works fine.
01:47 <+perlDreamer> Do you see anything I should be wary of?
01:48 <@rizen> ok
01:48 <@rizen> sounds fine
01:48 <+perlDreamer> Sweet!
01:48 <+perlDreamer> --bug
01:48 <+perlDreamer> I'll work on backporting it to 7.3 then.
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02:14 <+perlDreamer> crud.  ++bug
02:14 <+perlDreamer> back to the whiteboard
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02:54 < cap10morgan> i have an ubuntu feisty build of the wre to contribute. where do i upload that again?
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03:03 < cap10morgan> rizen?
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05:17 <@rizen> cap10morgan
05:29 <+Radix_> hey.. got a wre setup with multiple sites on it.  I have a main website www.mydomain.com and several subsites - s1.mydomain, s2.mydomain, etc.  I've configured mydomain.com to go to www.mydomain in hosts/webgui config etc, but it always seems to go to the config that's loaded first alphabetically regardless.
05:30 <@rizen> yup
05:30 <@rizen> it's because you didn't do it right
05:30 <@rizen> that's all the help i can provide
05:30 <+Radix_> Any easy way to fix it?  or do I have to use the modproxy config on the site that's receiving it and redirect it there?
05:31 <+Radix_> :P
05:31 <@rizen> ok, i suppose i can tell you
05:31 <@rizen> the most likely culprit is in your either the last line in your modproxy config for each of your sites, or the ServerName line in the individual modperl files
05:32 <@rizen> for example
05:32 <@rizen> in s1.example.com.modproxy
05:32 <@rizen> you should have ServerName s1.example.ccom
05:33 <+Radix_> atm it's just what the wre generated via addsite
05:33 <@rizen> and RewriteRule ^/(.*) http://%{HTTP_HOST}:81/$1 [P]
05:33 <@rizen> then in modperl you should have Servername s1.example.com
05:34 <@rizen> and in the rewrite rule instead of %{HTTP_HOST} you might have the actual host name
05:34 <@rizen> and if those are all true
05:34 <@rizen> then the next place to look is local dns
05:35 <@rizen> if your local dns doesn't match your external dns, then you'll have problems
05:35 <@rizen> in most cases local dns is nothing more than /etc/hosts
05:35 < SDuensin> Hey rizen - waaaay off topic, but are you a video gamer?  If so, this will be funny:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfkDxF2kn1I   (If not, it's still funny!)
05:35 <@rizen> but sometimes people actually run named on their local box too
05:36 <+Radix_> Bleh.. I just found some serveralias mydomain.com in each of the modproxy files - that has probably caused it
05:36 <+Radix_> typical, as soon as get frustrated enough to ask for help I find the source myself :)
05:37 <@rizen> yeah, stop asking for help
05:37 <+Radix_> hehe.. thanks :)
05:39 <+Radix_> found a bug in the ubuntu 6.10 wre setup btw
05:39 <+Radix_> the default spectre.conf file has a missing comma in it
05:40 <@rizen> that's in all 0.7.2 releases
05:40 <+Radix_> actually.. that may be 7.3.18 instead actually.. since that'd be where that file came from
05:40 <@rizen> it's fixed in wre 0.8.0
05:40 <+Radix_> I added it to the wre installation wiki page
05:41 <+Radix_> along with the force install weather::com::finder steps which are needed for the current wre too
05:41 <@rizen> SD, why oh why would you waste 4 minutes of my life like that
05:41 <@rizen> i'll never get that time back
05:43 < SDuensin> Because it's FUNNY!
05:44 <@rizen> ok, it was kinda funny...but i'm researching CAS
05:45 <@rizen> i must have concentration...not funny
05:46 <@rizen> be sure to check plainblack.com on monday morning
05:46 < SDuensin> CAS?  As in CAS before RAS?
05:47 <@rizen> CAS = Central Authentication Services
05:47 < SDuensin> Eh, mine has something to do with RAM.  Never did understand it.  :-)
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21:06 < perlDreame1> Hey, folk.s
21:06 < perlDreame1> How do you draw good people to a BOF type conference session.
21:06 <@rizen> i'm not sure they're all folks
21:06 < perlDreame1> Food?
21:06 <@rizen> some might be sirs
21:06 < perlDreame1> Schwag?
21:07 < perlDreame1> Empty promises and glitz?
21:07 <@rizen> or ma'am
21:07 <@rizen> beer!!!
21:07 < perlDreame1> I'm thinking of doing a BOF session at OSCON this year
21:07 <@rizen> are bof's done in hallway space at oscon, or do you get a room like they do at apache con?
21:08 < perlDreame1> They're done in rooms
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21:08 < perlDreame1> http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2007/create/e_sess?x-t=os2007_BoF.form
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02:38 < wjw61> evening rizen
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22:43 < ckotil> rizen: I have a CAS authentication module for webgui
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23:19 <@rizen> anybody actually here? need an opinion
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23:27 < xdanger> yup
23:28 <@rizen> Ok, we have the section of our site called "Store" right now, which contains product and service descriptions, as well as lets you buy our products and services
23:28 <@rizen> my question is, is that word descriptive enough
23:28 <@rizen> my favorite word for this link is "offerings"
23:29 <@rizen> but i don't think that it's a good word
23:29 <@rizen> for the general public
23:29 <@rizen> other options would be products, shop, services
23:29 <@rizen> unfortunately there isn't enough room in the menu for "products and services"
23:30 <@rizen> i know this might seem like a trivial thing...but i keep getting complaints that people say that they can't find anything on our site, so i'm trying to make some positive changes
23:30 <@rizen> and this area isn't one i've gotten any suggestions on
23:30 < xdanger> Shop is quite descriptive
23:31 < xdanger> but it's Store in other form...
23:31 <@rizen> being an international user, does one have better meaning to you than the other?
23:32 < xdanger> Offerings doesn't sound so nice for some reason...
23:32 <@rizen> they mean virtually the same thing to the average user here
23:32 <@rizen> no i mean "shop" vs "store"
23:33 < xdanger> Shop is something that many recognices...
23:33 < xdanger> it's more friendly
23:33 <@rizen> k
23:41 < ckotil> what about 'Online Store'
23:41 < ckotil> what were you researching CAS for?
23:41 < ckotil> we have been thinking of dumping CAS and switchign to Cosign
23:42 <@rizen> since it's on our site i think "Online" would be redundant
23:43 < ckotil> but if its a problem of clarity, it would solve that
23:43 <@rizen> i want to implement some single sign on stuff into webgui so that it can be better integrated into various enterprises and also so that you can single sign on between various webgui sites
23:43 < ckotil> right on.
23:43 < ckotil> single sign on between sights has been a problem for me
23:43 < ckotil> between domains really
23:44 < ckotil> even tho i have a single webgui instance for multiple domains, since the cookies are separate from one another it forces users to click the cas login button everytime they switch domains
23:45 < ckotil> dunno an elegant solution for that.
23:45 <@rizen> ah, well i have a solution for that now
23:45 <@rizen> it's built in to 7.4
23:45 < ckotil> awsome
23:45 <@rizen> you can see it in action on plainblack.com right now
23:45 <@rizen> in the upper right corner you can click on the webgui icon
23:46 <@rizen> and it will single sign you on to the webgui.org domain
23:46 <@rizen> completely transparent to the user
23:46 < ckotil> very nice.
23:46 < ckotil> you think it will play nicely with my CAS.pm authentication plugin/
23:46 <@rizen> it's a quick and dirty solution for multiple sites on the same database
23:46 < ckotil> thats my setup
23:47 <@rizen> oh yeah, your cas plugin won't even know about this
23:47 <@rizen> it will work perfectly
23:47 < ckotil> sweet.
23:47 <@rizen> you're welcome to pull the changes you need out of svn and apply them to 7.3.18 if you want
23:47 < ckotil> im tempted to
23:48 < ckotil> if only i had the same multi domain setup on my dev site 
23:48 < ckotil> ill just wait for the official release
23:48 <@rizen> https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/revision/?rev=4181
23:48 <@rizen> coolio
23:48 < ckotil> interesting..only 3 files
23:48 < ckotil> hehe tempting
23:49 <@rizen> it's quite elegant
23:49 <@rizen> only about 15 lines of code in all
23:49 < ckotil> are you manipulating the cookie?
23:49 <@rizen> nope
23:49 <@rizen> it's all done inside the webgui session system
23:50 < ckotil> cool.
23:50 <@rizen> i just link the session from one domain to the other one
23:50 <@rizen> so that you can use the same session in both domains
23:50 < ckotil> thats great.
--- Day changed Mon Jun 11 2007
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00:11 <+crythias> ok. What did I miss?
00:11 <@rizen> only everything
00:12 <+crythias> Figures. No more forum on pb.com?
00:12 <@rizen> we talked about the new pb/wg sites, single sign on
00:12 <@rizen> opinions were asked for and given
00:12 <@rizen> the world came to an end and then began again
00:12 <@rizen> the only forum on plainblack.com is the support forum
00:12 <@rizen> all community stuff has been moved to the other site
00:13 <+crythias> other... site?
00:13 <@rizen> click the wg logo in the upper right corner of pb
00:13 <+crythias> man, I have been out of it.
00:14 <+crythias> ok, so ... no autoredirect for www.plainblack.com/discuss? bummer :(
00:14 <@rizen> i can do that quick
00:14 <@rizen> just didn't think about it
00:16 <+crythias> webgi.org conference logo is beauty, but goes nowhere.
00:16 <+crythias> webgui.org...
00:17 <@rizen> the site's not done yet
00:17 <+crythias> :) ok.
00:17 <@rizen> we're doing it over the weekend so it's ready on monday
00:17 <+crythias> ah. 
00:17 <@rizen> you'll note that the front page has no content either
00:17 <+crythias> lo siento
00:17 <@rizen> there, your redirect is in place
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00:21 <+crythias> :)
00:21 < wgGuest78> what does it take to get ops on this channel
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00:25 < ckotil> ...
00:26 <@preaction> i need to find an IRC client that will warn me about clones
00:32 < ckotil> http://irssi.org/scripts/scripts/clones.pl
00:51 <@rizen> just so you can catch me when i do evil things?
00:51 <@preaction> you didn't even give me time to come up with an appropriately witty response
00:51 <@rizen> i figured if i hung around too long someone would catch on to me
00:52 < ckotil> i was typing a response
00:52 < ckotil> ya, then i noticed the ip
00:52 <@preaction> you don't know about /whowas <nick> ?
00:53 <@rizen> so i take it your computer is all fixed
00:53 <@preaction> colloquy doesn't support it, but if you open the server console you can see the reply
00:53 < ckotil> ohh whowas, thats new to me
00:53 < ckotil> i use irssi
00:53 < ckotil> it rocks
00:53 <@preaction> yeah, 6 hours of driving and mucking about with my car, 4 hours of driving, 10 seconds in the store to pick up the A/C adapter
00:54 < ckotil> ive got one of those ;)
00:54 < ckotil> i take the laptop w/ gps along with me on long trips
00:54 <@preaction> ooh, that's a good idea
00:55 < ckotil> it rocks , i use M$ trips 2007
00:55 < ckotil> im planning on getting that iphone, might make my laptop/gps setup obsolete
00:56 <@preaction> i hear supply shortages, so i'm not going to hold my breath for one
00:56 < ckotil> yeah..
00:56 < ckotil> i think work is placing  a bulk order on some
00:56 < ckotil> i hope that pulls through
00:58 <@rizen> i'm going to be camping out to get one
01:01 < ckotil> nice
01:04 < ckotil> heading out to a bbq.
01:49 <+Radix_> rizen: can you rank my RFE when you get a chance - http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/ability-to-move-changes-from-one-version-tag-to-another#8IN0PZcA38N4nAE3-6i7kg
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01:50 < perlDreame1> I need somebody with 7.4 running to help me verify a bug.
01:50 < perlDreame1> According to wG, Admin's uiLevel is 5
01:50 < perlDreame1> even though in the db it says that it is 9
01:50 < perlDreame1> There's an easy way to test it
01:50 < perlDreame1> Fire up wG
01:50 < perlDreame1> Turn on Admin
01:50 < perlDreame1> then check the New Content section of the Admin Bar
01:51 < perlDreame1> if you don't have the SQL Report in that list, then the UI level is not 9
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02:42 < xdanger> So I have a cs with CommitWithApproval.. and when I'm trying to commit, it warns that: Couldn't execute operation : WebGUI::Operation::VersionTag::www_approveVersionTag. Root cause: Can't locate object method "setApproved" via package "WebGUI::Workflow::Activity::CommitVersionTag" at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/VersionTag.pm line 63.
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03:56 <@rizen> that means that you're trying to run setApproved on the workflow activity
03:57 <@rizen> when you need to run it on the version tag
03:57 <@rizen> you're doing $self->setApproved
03:57 <@rizen> you need $versionTag->setApproved;
03:58 <@rizen> or rather...not you..but the workflow engine
03:58 <@rizen> i'm looking at the code for that module though
03:58 <@rizen> and it looks good
03:59 <@rizen> nevermind
04:00 <@rizen> i think i see what's going on here
04:00 <@rizen> xdanger, are you even still here?
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04:03 < SDuensin> Greetings.
04:03 <@rizen> howdy
04:04 < SDuensin> Hey bud.
04:40 <@rizen> radix: don't know if you're here or not
04:40 <@rizen> but if you are check out webgui.org
04:41 <@rizen> your new people behind webgui banner is BAD ASS
04:41 <@rizen> you almost look like a super hero
04:42 < vayde> looks sweet
04:42 <+Radix-wrk> hehe
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04:43 <+Radix-wrk> I am a super hero ;)
04:43 <+Radix-wrk> "wG hero"! :)
04:45 <+Radix-wrk> :)
04:45 <@rizen> what do you guys think of the new wg site?
04:46 <+Radix-wrk> I like it, though the logo blends in with the yellow a bit much I think
04:46 <+Radix-wrk> White on Yellow isn't that easy to read
04:47 <+Radix-wrk> http://webgui.org/uploads/LK/h9/LKh9er8DR3b1qsuuw0FdkA/corner.jpg
04:47 < vayde> yeah, you have to squint to read it
04:47 <+Radix-wrk> "Web Done Right" - should be in black I reckon
04:47 <@rizen> i've passed your feedback on to our designer
04:48 <@rizen> actually though
04:48 <@rizen> i was talking more about the ability to find things
04:48 <@rizen> now that "community" has been seperated from "content"
04:48 <+Radix-wrk> Love the new menu structure on the side
04:49 <@rizen> s/content/commerce/
04:49 <+Radix-wrk> Much easier to navigate around in
04:50 <+Radix-wrk> Are you going to add a section for webgui hosting companies (including plainblack obviously) anywhere?
04:51 <@rizen> maybe
04:51 <@rizen> i guess it would depend upon what the community wants...and how it benefits us
04:52 <@rizen> we have been talking about letting other webgui professionals buy banners in the space where your super hero banner is
05:04 <@rizen> radix  do you host sites for people?
05:04 <@rizen> is that why you asked?
05:06 <+Radix-wrk> kinda
05:07 <+Radix-wrk> I've just started a sideline - doing a few sites for family/friends really atm and hoping to do more in future
05:07 <+Radix-wrk> I'm using webgui for it all, and enjoying doing it so far
05:08 <+Radix-wrk> it's very small scale at the moment.. just in my spare time - and will be like that for a while I suspect
05:09 <+Radix-wrk> atm an advert would be too much for me right now, I've got more than enough work to last me until I go to europe - but perhaps in future
05:13 <@rizen> i always have to weigh these types of decisions...and they always hurt
05:13 <@rizen> on one hand, it probably would be good for community growth if we provided a list of hosters somewhere
05:13 <@rizen> and what's good for the community is usually good for plain black, though in varing degrees
05:14 <@rizen> on the other hand, i have to look out for a number 1: plain black, cuz without pb turning a profit, there is no webgui, and therefore no community
05:14 <+Radix-wrk> Yeah, I completely understand
05:15 <+Radix-wrk> I'm not really fussed either way, was just asking really.
05:16 <@rizen> i know
05:16 <+Radix-wrk> Atm there doesn't even seem to be any links to you guys even for custom devel/hosting
05:16 <@rizen> but these kinds of questions vex me regardless of the intent of the person asking
05:16 <+Radix-wrk> Yeah, I know
05:17 <@rizen> there are at least two links to us on every page
05:17 <@rizen> upper right corner, and the copyright
05:17 <@rizen> but no, there's no real advertising of our services on this site
05:17 <@rizen> the idea behind the split was to make this the "community's" web site
05:17 <@rizen> so community stuff goes here
05:17 <@rizen> and plain black services stuff goes on our site
05:17 <+Radix-wrk> yep
05:18 <@rizen> its a pretty stark contrast to anything we've ever done before
05:18 <@rizen> i hope it works out in our favor
05:18 <@rizen> "our" being both pb and the community
05:18 <+Radix-wrk> yup
05:18 <+Radix-wrk> I do too :)
05:19 < ckotil> it sounds like a good idea
05:19 < vayde> succeed or fail, ya gotta try new things
05:19 <@rizen> over the next six months we're going to be doing a lot of new things that no one has ever seen us do before
05:19 <@rizen> internally it's called the plan of 8
05:19 <@rizen> 8 big changes
05:19 <@rizen> and this is number 1
05:20 <+Radix-wrk> sounds interesting :)
05:20 < ckotil> awsome.
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08:53 <@rizen> radix
08:53 <+Radix-wrk> yes?
08:54 <@rizen> talked it over with our director of operations...and i think we are going to allow a list of hosters on the site
08:54 <@rizen> for free
08:54 <@rizen> i shouldn't say "I think", I should say, "we are"
08:54 <+Radix-wrk> Sounds good
08:55 <@rizen> it's going to be in the form of a wiki page so people can add themselves to the list
08:55 <+Radix-wrk> I thought of that earlier when we were talking about it.. long as people respect the wiki and don't go adding themselves to the top of the list and stuff
08:56 <+Radix-wrk> that'd be my only fear with that
08:56 <@rizen> I'm going to put some instructions in the wiki page...hopefully people will follow the instructions.
08:56 <@rizen> if not, we'll have to kill the page
08:57 <+Radix-wrk> Why not just add a page that you control and an email method for ppl to add themselves?
08:57 <@rizen> because we don't want to have an approval process on it. the act of doing that is almost like an endorsement of their service
08:57 <@rizen> and we're not going to vet the hosters
08:57 <+Radix-wrk> I suppose a wiki is more manageable and yeah, fair enough
08:58 <+Radix-wrk> always a chance that people will regard that as censorship, etc, etc..
08:58 <+Radix-wrk> Okey.. well when it gets set up I'll put my name down I guess ;)
08:59 <+Radix-wrk> Been enjoying doing a few websites from scratch with webgui lately - not really done that much before
09:05 <@rizen> http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/hosters
09:06 <@rizen> hopefully the rules are clear enough
09:06 <@rizen> and hopefully people will follow them
09:06 <+Radix-wrk> Hmm.. alphabetical huh.. then mine would be on top
09:06 <@rizen> that's good news for you
09:07 <+Radix-wrk> no no.. I'm too small and too busy at the moment :)
09:07 <+Radix-wrk> I'll add myself later when there's more people for me to get lost in :)
09:07 <@rizen> i think the only fair way to do it is alphabetically
09:07 <+Radix-wrk> Yeah, makes sense.
09:10 <+Radix-wrk> Do you remember the website theme that I won the recent style contest with?  See if you recognise it now - http://tenpart.juga.biz/
09:11 <@rizen> it looks pretty similar, just with a logo and a little color chnage
09:11 <@rizen> it was a good design 
09:11 <+Radix-wrk> it's site I'm doing for my step-dad's band
09:11 <@rizen> they have a cool logo
09:11 <+Radix-wrk> yeah, it's a beautiful style to work with
09:12 <@rizen> it's good that you can reuse your work like that
09:12 <+Radix-wrk> yup - that's why I love webgui so much - it lets me reuse stuff :)
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13:05 < pjesi> morning
13:10 < pjesi> did you move everything to the wiki?
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18:00 <@rizen> define "everything"
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18:45 <+perlDreamer> morning folks
18:49 <@rizen> morning
18:50 < ckotil> hello
18:51 <+perlDreamer> what's happening in the www? (Wide World of WebGUI)
18:52 < ckotil> Things are running smooth for me.
18:53 <+perlDreamer> ckotil: would you mind manually running a wG test for me?
18:53 <+perlDreamer> You'd need to have a copy of 7.4 laying around.
18:53 <+perlDreamer> If you don't, then it wouldn't work.
18:54 < ckotil> sure thing
18:54 < ckotil> i dont mind doing it on my dev instance
18:54 <+perlDreamer> head over to /data/WebGUI/t
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18:57 < SDuensin> Greetings.
18:57 <+perlDreamer> howdy
18:57 <+perlDreamer> Seen the new webgui.org website?
18:58 < SDuensin> Yep.  I wasn't ready for it last night and nearly went blind!
18:58 <@rizen> what?
18:58 < SDuensin> All that yellow in a dark room!
18:58 <@rizen> pd, should have my wre working in the next few minutes
18:59 <+perlDreamer> sweet!
19:00 <+perlDreamer> I did some digging around last night, and it sound like my NMI problem may be hardware related, or it could be just X.org having problems.
19:01 <+perlDreamer> Some people said it was memory.
19:19 <@rizen> you said that if i log in with admin
19:19 <@rizen> i won't see sql report
19:19 <@rizen> right?
19:19 <@rizen> cuz of the ui level problem?
19:20 <+perlDreamer> That's one way to see the problem.
19:20 <+perlDreamer> The other way is to run t/Session.t
19:20 <@rizen> i do see the sql report
19:20 <@rizen> running the test now
19:21 <@rizen> all tests successful
19:22 <@rizen> checked out full svn at 10:30am (central) and reset the database at that time
19:22 <+perlDreamer> I'll close the bug then.
19:26 <+perlDreamer> It would be cool to get a new laptop, but expensive
19:26 <+perlDreamer> I wonder what service times and costs are like...
19:26 < ckotil> get a macbook pro and dont worry about service
19:27 <+perlDreamer> I'm a self-avowed linux bigot.
19:28 < ckotil> osx is similiar to unix and you get an awsome gui
19:28 < ckotil> toss parallels into the mix and you have one of the most versative OS's ever
19:28 < ckotil> im installing vista as we speak to my mac
19:29 < ckotil> windows xp runs better on the mac that it does on my desktop at home
19:30 <+perlDreamer> I've heard OSX is very, very cool, but I prefer to run free software.
19:30 < ckotil> me too
19:30 < ckotil> most of it is free
19:35 <@rizen> gotta go, be back in a bit
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20:08 < wjw61> hungry?
20:09 <@RizenHasTheMunch> yup...must go to lunch soon
20:09 < wjw61> When you get back, I have a few questions...  will watch for you here...
20:10 <@RizenHasTheMunch> are they short?
20:10 < wjw61> probably not... :-)
20:10 <@RizenHasTheMunch> hehe
20:10 < wjw61> lol
20:10 <@RizenHasTheMunch> ok
20:17 <@RizenHasTheMunch> so as i was walking out the door i realised i don't have time to go out for lunch cuz i have a meeting at 1pm
20:17 <@RizenHasTheMunch> then i looked in my kitchen and realised i didn't have any good food cuz i haven't been to the store in a week and a half
20:18 <@RizenHasTheMunch> so i'm going to have to settle for 2 carrots and a bowl of cereal
20:18 -!- RizenHasTheMunch is now known as rizen
20:18 <@rizen> go ahead and ask your question
20:19 < wjw61> I noticed a new binary for ubuntu feisty .... have had some trouble getting CVS_XS to compile... does the new binary include it?
20:20 <@rizen> no
20:20 <@rizen> it is wre 0.7.2, so it's the same as all other versions of that release
20:20 <@rizen> has the same modules
20:21 < wjw61> ok... will probably install it anyway... but won't be a priority now... next item...
20:22 < wjw61> I suspect I made by modifying the dev.localhost.localdomain site when playing around.  I think I should have made a new site and left dev.x.x alone...
20:23 <@rizen> are you saying your broke dev.localhost?
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20:23 < wjw61> no.. it works just fine...
20:23 <@rizen> the sentence above doesn't make any sense
20:24 <@rizen> reread then clarify
20:24 < wjw61> what I am attempting to do is have /data/WebGUI be controlled via svn.  When I check out however, mod-perl breaks...
20:25 <+crythias> that's like spooky
20:25 < wjw61> I have yet to track down why it won't start with a fresh svn update... perhaps I should not check out from HEAD?
20:25 <@rizen> do these steps
20:25 <@rizen> cd /data/
20:25 <@rizen> mv WebGUI WebGUI.old
20:25 <@rizen> svn co https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/WebGUI
20:26 <@rizen> cp WebGUI.old/etc/*.conf WebGUI/etc/
20:26 <@rizen> cd sbin
20:26 <@rizen> perl testEnvironment.pl
20:26 <@rizen> that last bit should tell you if you're missing any perl modules
20:28 < wjw61> ok,... this is what I have been doing, but will give it a shot again.. brb
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20:28 <@rizen> if testEnvironment.pl fails to install the perl modules then you should do it the old fashioned way
20:28 <@rizen> cpan
20:28 <@rizen> install PMName
20:29 < wjw61> ..:-)  yup.. tried that too... they fail to compile... 
20:30 < wjw61> ... will however attempt it again...
20:32 < xdanger> rizen: you had a suggestion to my problem?
20:32 <@rizen> refresh my memory, what is your problem?
20:33 < xdanger> < xdanger> So I have a cs with CommitWithApproval.. and when I'm trying to commit, it warns that: Couldn't execute operation :  WebGUI::Operation::VersionTag::www_approveVersionTag. Root cause: Can't locate object method "setApproved" via package  "WebGUI::Workflow::Activity::CommitVersionTag" at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/VersionTag.pm line 63.
20:35 <@rizen> oh right well the problem is that it's trying to execute setApproved on the CommitVersionTag activity, except that its the wrong activity. it should be doing that on the RequestApprovalForVersionTag activity
20:35 <@rizen> i looked through the code and couldn't figure out why it would get into the state that it's in
20:36 <@rizen> so the only thing i'm left with is either you've discovered a massive bug in the workflow engine that nobody else has discovered in a year of using it
20:36 <@rizen> or you have edited your workflows in such a way that they are no longer working properly
20:37 <@rizen> i suppose there could be also something that i'm just not seeing, but those seem to be the most likely options
20:46 < wjw61> rizen.. is Config::JSON a relatively new requirement for wre?  
20:51 <@rizen> yes. it's not even a requirement for wre 0.7.2
20:51 <@rizen> only for 0.8.0
20:51 <@rizen> which isn't out yet
20:51 <+perlDreamer> --bug
20:51 <@rizen> ++++++++++++++bug
20:51 < wjw61> hmm.. when running testEnvironment.pl.. that is the error I get... 
20:52 <@rizen> pd, i'm adding bugs faster than you can fix them
20:52 <@rizen> right, cuz you're using WebGUI 7.4
20:52 <@rizen> which will require WRE 0.8.0
20:53 <@rizen> so you'll need to install any new modules that WebGUI requires of you
20:53 <@rizen> cuz 7.4 will have new requirements
20:54 <+perlDreamer> 7.4 will require Wine, Samba, Bind, Sendmail and M5
20:54 <+perlDreamer> we rewrote it in Fortran for speed
20:55 < wjw61> ok.. will have to troubleshoot the install of Config::JSON then.. it will not compile here for some reason..
20:55 <@rizen> there's nothing to even compile
20:55 <@rizen> i wrote it
20:56 <@rizen> its a pure perl modules
20:56 <@rizen> type "which perl" at your command line right now
20:56 <@rizen> and tell me what you get
20:57 < wjw61> /usr/bin/perl... hmmm... that's not right!
20:57 <@rizen> yeah
20:57 <@rizen> . /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment
20:57 <@rizen> then type cpan
20:57 <@rizen> i bet things go better
20:57 <@rizen> the dot space at the beginning is significant
20:58 < wjw61> yes.. I actually have the in my .profile.. not being picked up... will examine that later...
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23:35 < xdanger> rizaway: I have the default workflow in place...
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--- Day changed Tue Jun 12 2007
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00:50 <@khenn> anyone here know what would cause data to be archived in the SQL Form?
00:51 <@khenn> it seems to be a mysterious process
00:51 <+perlDreamer> no clue, khenn
00:51 <+perlDreamer> You need to talk to MHG
00:51 <@khenn> figured as much
00:52 <@khenn> thanks
00:53 <+perlDreamer> on a quick look, it looks like old data is archived whenever new data is saved
00:53 <+perlDreamer> see line 2809
01:10 <+perlDreamer> You should be able to back trace the @updates array from there.
01:12 -!- rizaway is now known as rizen
01:13 <@rizen> xdanger, i'm afraid that trying to discover what's going on with your site is more than i have time for. either post a bug report with instructions on how to replicate, or take it up in our support board and someone will figure it out with you.
01:14 < xdanger> I'm gonna have a look at it myself when I have time...
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01:14 <+MrHairgrease> hey guys
01:14 <+MrHairgrease> wanna have a laugh
01:14 <@rizen> howdy
01:15 <+MrHairgrease> some guy dared to reply his to me
01:15 <+MrHairgrease>  ok, i will try to show to some one. but for me it's absolutely ok with English too.
01:16 <+MrHairgrease> He also is very sure that sentences without verbs are considered to be correct in the English speaking part of the world
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01:18 < wjw61> ahhhhh... and things work!!
01:31 <@rizen> that's funny mhg
01:31 <@rizen> how is it exactly that you structure a sentence without a verb
01:32 <@rizen> what action could take place?
01:32 <@rizen> i guess it would be a sentence like "the dumb brown cow."
01:32 <@rizen> but then you have to ask yourself, "WHAT?" about the dumb brown cow
01:32 <@rizen> nice job wjw
01:33 < wjw61> :-)
01:33 < wjw61> keeps one guessing ...
01:34 < wjw61> .. yet another sentence without a subject..
01:34 <+MrHairgrease> rizen: i asked the guy that question, and he replied with:
01:34 <+MrHairgrease> yeah, i read it hundreds times and it were ok.
01:37 <@rizen> but even that has a verb
01:38 <@rizen> "read"
01:39 <+MrHairgrease> the sentence i referred to was: 'A molecule with an inner conductive part
01:39 <+MrHairgrease>  57 (delocalized $\pi$-electron systems) connected to an electrode.'
01:39 <+MrHairgrease> ignore the 57
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02:05 <+perlDreamer> khenn, you just missed Martin
02:06 <@khenn> crap
02:06 <@khenn> I figured I wouldn't see him till tomorrow
02:06 <@khenn> it is after midnight in the netherlands afterall =p
02:06 <@khenn> guess he just got home from the pub
02:09 <+perlDreamer> It's hard being Eurotrash
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03:20 <@rizen> hey lucy, you got some splainin to do
03:29 <@preaction> pray you aren't calling me girls names now?
03:51 <@rizen> whatever betty
03:56 <@preaction> rizen: i'm loathe to do this, but i think spectre's cron isn't responding anymore. until i know why i don't want to restart it, but i can't see anything symptomatic.
03:56 <@preaction> i can force jobs to run, and they'll run, but nothing gets started by the scheduler itself
03:57 <@preaction> i ran into this problem on a client site as well, and restarting spectre seemed to fix it
03:57 <@rizen> well you might as well restart it cuz we don't have any real troubleshooting mechanisms to look inside the scheduler
03:58 <@rizen> maybe i need to build in stuff to do it, like i did with workflow
04:00 <@preaction> a way to connect to the process and read what it's doing? like listening on a socket?
04:01 <@rizen> perl spectre.pl --status
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04:01 <@rizen> it tells you what's going on with workflow
04:01 <@rizen> at least enough that you can troubleshoot what's going on with the system
04:02 <@rizen> if i did the same for cron i think we'd be goo
04:02 <@rizen> good
04:02 <@rizen> plus...i made it so no matter how many times it errored, workflows keep running
04:02 <@rizen> so that way once they get corrected we're all good
04:02 <@rizen> i should do the same for cron
04:03 <@preaction> do cron jobs have a "last run" datetime?
04:03 <@rizen> i'd have to look, i don't think so
04:04 <@preaction> doesn't look like it, but that might be a good idea as well
04:05 <@rizen> right, that would be required to work with --status
04:05 <@preaction> once a cron job is posted, it behaves like a normal instance, no?
04:05 <@rizen> probably along with a few other things
04:05 <@rizen> just like i did with workflow
04:05 <@rizen> yes
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06:44 <+Radix-wrk> anyone awake?
06:45 <@rizen> no
06:48 <+Radix-wrk> macro documentation.. where can I find out how to do this?
06:48 <@rizen> wiki
06:49 <+Radix-wrk> I haven't been able to find it using search at all
06:49 <+Radix-wrk> umm.. not creating a macro
06:49 <+Radix-wrk> I mean documenting a macro I've written - ie help files I guess
06:53 <@rizen> http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/macro-development-tutorial
06:53 <@rizen> oh
06:54 <@rizen> http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/the-help-system
06:55 <+Radix-wrk> Hmm.. that works for macros as well as assets?
06:55 <@rizen> anything you want to put in the help
06:55 <@rizen> http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/internationalization
06:55 <+Radix-wrk> k.. I guess I can use an existing one as a basis.. cheers :)
06:55 <+Radix-wrk> no text in this macro, but four parameters - three optional which I wanted to document somewhere other than in the code ;)
06:56 <@rizen> yeah, but you need to use i18n in order to build help
06:56 <@rizen> they are linked
06:56 <+Radix-wrk> Working on my first entry for the macro contest :)
06:56 <+Radix-wrk> k
06:56 <+Radix-wrk> cheers
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15:56 < SDuensin> Good morning.
15:56 < ckotil> good morning
15:57 < SDuensin> Hey ckotil 
15:58 < ckotil> i tried to install mysql5 via rpms on a RHEL AS4 machine. didnt go so well
15:58 < ckotil> had to back it out and go back to 4
15:58 < ckotil> so today im gonna attempt it again
15:58 < ckotil> w/ pre compiled non rpms
15:58 < ckotil> then if that doesnt cut it, ill do it from source
15:58 < ckotil> i want to get the db local.
16:00  * SDuensin isn't a big RPM fan.
16:00 < ckotil> currently its a couple RU's away
16:00 < ckotil> they're nice most of the time
16:00 < ckotil> very fast and clean
16:00 < ckotil> even the init script screwed up w/ the mysql5 isntall
16:01 < ckotil> i should email mysql and let them know.
16:11 < pjesi> is it possible to run the sql migration scripts manually?
16:11 < AMH_bob> Good morning!
16:11 < pjesi> I have the latest sources but the db is not in sync
16:11 < pjesi> good morning!
16:13 < ckotil> dunno
16:14 < pjesi> the CS breaks due to different table structure
16:14 <+Radix_> why via rpm's?
16:14 <+Radix_> why not use yum?
16:14 < SDuensin> Hey AMH_bob, pjesi, Radix_ 
16:15 <+Radix_> Hi SD
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17:19 <@rizen> AMH_bob. How's your project coming along?
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17:35 <@khenn> anyone seen MHG today?
17:35 < ckotil> nope
17:39 < pjesi> rizen: any hints on how to run the sql migration scripts *after* WG has been updated?
17:40 <@rizen> what sql migration scripts?
17:41 < pjesi> which should be execute by the upgrade scripts
17:41 < pjesi> somehow they did not work when I upgraded from 7.3.12 to .18
17:43 <@rizen> if they somehow didn't work, then you need to start over and make them work
17:43 <@rizen> you can't retroactively apply them, you never know what bad stuff might happen
17:44 < AMH_bob> Hi Rizen; the project is going fine... we were all in Amsterdam yesterday, hoping to catch you in person or on a video(conference).
17:44 < AMH_bob> But Amsterdam is never a disappointment :P
17:45 < pjesi> ok
17:45 <@rizen> apparently i was supposed to be speaking there, however, no one told me until yesterday that i was speaking there
17:46 <@rizen> methinks the organizers of said conference are not very organized
17:47 <@rizen> i offered to come in person back in january, but was told not to because they weren't even sure they were doing a conference
17:51 < AMH_bob> No problem, the day wasn't a compleet bust - I always anjoy a good road trip
17:53 < AMH_bob> I'm pretty sure something will be set up soon by Robert Heessels.
17:57 <@rizen> oh...i've always thought that the bob in AMH_bob = Robert Heessels
17:57 <@rizen> i guess not
17:58 < AMH_bob> Nope, my name is Robert Broen, but Because we already had a Robert, I became... Bob!
17:59 < AMH_bob> Robert Heessels is the managing director, I'm just a humble CMS programmer.
18:00 <@rizen> don't say "just", everyone in an organization is important
18:02 < AMH_bob> :D
18:02 <@rizen> well, everyone except preaction that is
18:02 <@rizen> he's completely replaceable
18:03 < AMH_bob> I just spoke with Robert; In 1 or 2 weeks he's going to call you to tell you more about our plans;
18:03 < AMH_bob> 8-)
18:04 <@preaction> woot! replaceable!
18:04 < AMH_bob> (I should stick up for Ubuntu users like that o:-))
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18:09 < AMH_bob> Until next time.... Goodbye!
18:10 <@rizen> later
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18:35 <+perlDreamer> w00t!
18:35 <+perlDreamer> My laptop isn't broken!
18:36 <@rizen> bring it over, i'll break it
18:36  * perlDreamer trundles back to home go fetch the laptop
18:37 <+perlDreamer> rizen: here's something to occupy you while you're waiting: http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2007/06/mycologist_resources.html
18:39 <+perlDreamer> Besides, there's no point in taking it to Wisonsin, you're supposed to be in Europe yesterday, no?
18:39 <@rizen> are you suggesting that i need more things to do?
18:39 <+perlDreamer> No, just trying to save my laptop =)
18:40 <@preaction> i've got a mycology lab next to my shower
18:41 <+perlDreamer> better next to, than inside.  Or on
19:01 < ckotil> theres a fungus amongus
19:03 <@preaction> i'm a fun guy
19:25 <+perlDreamer> Hard to tell if the ensuing silence was due to the pun, or just standard channel lull
19:32 < ckotil> standard lull
20:25 <+perlDreamer> Are we supposed to backport all bug fixes from 7.4 to 7.3 Branch?
20:29 <@rizen> yes
20:30 <@rizen> if they are backportable
21:08 < ckotil> you ever see this while running the testEnvironment.pl? a
21:08 < ckotil> Verifying database connection: perl: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5/i386-linux-thread-multi/auto/DBD/mysql/mysql.so: undefined symbol: DBIc_TRACE_LEVEL
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21:23 <+perlDreamer> ckotil: That's comming out of perl and mysql, not out of WebGUI.  Sounds like a bad compile of mysql.xs
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21:35 < ckotil> yeah.
21:35  * ckotil shakes fist at mysql dev's
21:36 < ckotil> they put out bad rpms AND compiled binaries
21:36 < ckotil> im just gonna have to wait to upgrade the webserver to RHEL5
21:36 < ckotil> that comes with mysql5
21:38 <+perlDreamer> silly question.  JT uses RHEL4, why not do that?
21:39 < ckotil> i hit that roadblock ^^ when trying to go from mysql4 to 5
21:39 < ckotil> on RHEL4
21:40 <+perlDreamer> use the WRE?
21:40 < ckotil> no, already have webgui from source installed. and running
21:40 < ckotil> its using a remote db
21:40 < ckotil> this is my production machine.
21:41 < ckotil> next step would be for me to build mysql5 from source. but i decided to wait to upgrade to rhel5
21:41 < ckotil> we built mysql5 from source on our db machine.
21:41 < ckotil> it runs rhel4
21:42 <+perlDreamer> build the WRE on it, too, but only use the MYSQL component
21:42 <+perlDreamer> lunch date with wife, be back later!
21:43 < ckotil> ill bet $5 the wre wont build on it ;)
21:43 < ckotil> pz
21:43 < ckotil> always fails at lftp
21:57 < professorfrink_> i've been trying to build a dataform in 7.3.18 and i'm having trouble getting it to export properly - 
21:58 < professorfrink_> i set up a field with multiple checkbox values, and when i export tab delimited, the values get pushed into other fields
21:58 < professorfrink_> i'm viewing it as a .ods spreadsheet
21:59 < professorfrink_> it seems to display correctly when i list all entries, and if i view it with a text editor
22:08 <@preaction> can you pastebin a sample?
22:20 < professorfrink_> actually, i think i figured it out - openoffice and neooffice use the semicolon as a separator, pushing the values to the next column
22:20 < professorfrink_> excel doesn't do that, and since everyone who's going to be checking it is going to be using excel, i'm not going to sweat it
22:21 < professorfrink_> but that's an FYI, i guess, for those of us who refuse to use microsoft...
22:21 < professorfrink_> thanks!
22:21 <@rizen> actually you can get oo to use a comma
22:21 <@rizen> you just have to tell it that in advance
22:22 < professorfrink_> mm, good point
22:22 < professorfrink_> yea
22:22 < professorfrink_> i didn't set the import filter correctly
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23:15 <+perlDreamer> whoa!
23:15 <+perlDreamer> new people in the room
23:15 <+perlDreamer> Who let that happen?
23:16 < ckotil> going for a new World Record
23:18 <+perlDreamer> Having a weird sense of deja vu, ckotil.  Why not use the precompilied WRE binaries?
23:18 <+perlDreamer> to get past the lftp compile problem?
23:24 < ckotil> i had a problem with those too.
23:25 < ckotil> im happy with running it from source.
23:25 < ckotil> sure setup takes a while.
23:25 < ckotil> but ive gotten it down to half a day
23:26 < ckotil> plus im running RH5 mostly now.
23:26 < ckotil> theres no RH5 precompiled binary yet
--- Day changed Wed Jun 13 2007
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07:58 <@preaction> i need a new house, with A/C so my darn computers don't die from the heat...
08:33 <@rizen> or just buy a window air conditioner for a few hundred bucks
08:38 <@preaction> it may work, it may not. most of the problem comes from the large sheet of black rubber next to my windows and screen door (the roof of the garage next to me). it basically bakes this tiny apartment
08:38 <@preaction> it will work, it just might cost a bunch in energy
08:51 <@rizen> got a river or lake near your house? run a hose to it and a radiator in your appartment
08:51 <@rizen> you'll freeze yourself out
08:52 <+Radix-wrk> cheaper way is to just use fans and get some circulation going
08:53 <+Radix-wrk> or yeah, get a split system aircon
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10:17 <+Radix-wrk> Rizen: Cache errors with webgui.org - I log in and get - "Hello Meatbop. Click here to log out.     You have 2010 karma to spend.    Turn Admin Off!" and full admin control
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14:23 < nuba> heh
14:25 < AMH_bob> ha
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15:55 < SDuensin> Greetings.
15:56 <@preaction> mornings
15:57 < SDuensin> Hi preaction 
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16:05 <@rizen> radix, you still here?
16:07 < AMH_bob> Good morning
16:07 <@rizen> good morning
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16:19 < preaction_> hmm full dance guard in today
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16:29 <+Radix_> rizen: yeah, just about to head off to bed
16:29 <@rizen> before you go, could you please explain the circumstances around your cache problem
16:29 <@rizen> i need to know if you were physically logged in
16:29 <@rizen> or if it was just a cache problem
16:30 <+Radix_> All I did was pop webgui.org into firefox
16:30 <+Radix_> I hadn't been to the site at all that day
16:30 <@rizen> could you continue browsing the site as the other person?
16:30 <+Radix_> I didn't stay as meatbop for long
16:30 <+Radix_> but I did try turning admin off and that worked
16:30 <@rizen> more than one page?
16:30 <+Radix_> still showed meatbop and his karma
16:30 <@rizen> did you click "log out"
16:31 <+Radix_> yeah
16:31 <+Radix_> then logged in as me
16:31 <@rizen> and after hitting turn admin off you could sttill see his name?
16:31 <+Radix_> it loaded in full admin mode tho
16:31 <+Radix_> yeah
16:31 <@rizen> wtf
16:32 <@rizen> this time when you went to the site you went directly there
16:32 <@rizen> ?
16:32 <@rizen> via typing url into browser?
16:32 <+Radix_> yup, just typed webgui.org and went straight there
16:32 <@rizen> and the last time you went there?
16:32 <@rizen> did you go via plainblack.com
16:32 <@rizen> ?
16:32 <+Radix_> yesterday sometime I think
16:32 <@rizen> clicking on the icon in the upper right corner?
16:33 <+Radix_> I usually have a shortcut for plainblack.com/discuss that I use
16:33 <@rizen> so then you were automatically redirected to webgui.org when you used that bookmark
16:34 <@rizen> are you sure you used that bookmark?
16:34 <+Radix_> I didn't use that bookmark today
16:34 <@rizen> no
16:34 <@rizen> the last time you went to webgui.org
16:34 <+Radix_> yes, I used it last time
16:34 <@rizen> ok
16:34 <@rizen> hmmm...well i'll have to figure it out
16:35 <@rizen> unfortunately nothing you've told me gives me any cluse
16:35 <@rizen> clues
16:35 <+Radix_> sorry
16:35 <@rizen> not your fault
16:35 <+Radix_> if it happens again, what should I do?
16:35 <@rizen> leave yourself logged in and email me
16:35 <@rizen> i'll take a look and see what i can see
16:36 <@rizen> i can't imagine how it would happen
16:36 <+Radix_> there was a cache bug submitted recently I saw
16:37 <@rizen> yeah, but that's not actually a bug, and it only had to do with visitors
16:38 <+Radix_> okey.. well I'll leave it in your hands
16:38 <@rizen> thanks...sleep well
16:38 <+Radix_> if it happens again I'll let ya know :)
16:38 <@rizen> it better not happen again
16:39 <+Radix_> I've had some funny stuff since the new site tho.. logged in on one page, then logged out on another, etc
16:39 <+Radix_> never been logged in as someone else tho
16:39 <+Radix_> anyhow.. I'm off to bed.. nite :)
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18:34 <@khenn> MrHairgrease:  I have a question for you about the SQL Form
18:34 <@khenn> specifically, what is archiving and what causes it?
18:34 <+MrHairgrease> shoot
18:34 <@rizen> don't answer him
18:34 <+MrHairgrease> ok
18:34 <@rizen> he's tryying to pull a fast one on you
18:34 <+MrHairgrease> figure it out yourself =)
18:34 <@rizen> hehe
18:34 <@rizen> ok i suppose you can answer him
18:34 <@rizen> just be careful
18:34 <@rizen> frank has shifty eyes
18:34 <@khenn> it appears that it only happens when you get a new revision of a row of data
18:34 <@khenn> I hate you JT
18:34 <+MrHairgrease> the archive bit says that that version of the record is not the newest
18:35 <@khenn> DIAF
18:35 <@khenn> =p
18:35 <@khenn> I thought so
18:35 <@khenn> thanks
18:35 <+MrHairgrease> np
18:35 <@khenn> I think there's a problem with the SQL Form fyi
18:35 <@khenn> I'm going to confirm
18:35 <@khenn> but I think the query can backfire
18:36 <@khenn> you do a "select distinct(xxx), xxx, xxx, xxx from xxx
18:36 <@khenn> and I think it may, in some cases, grab the archived record
18:37 <@khenn> even if it has a more recent version
18:37 <+MrHairgrease> could be
18:37 <+MrHairgrease> but that is not what it should do
18:37 <@khenn> I'll try to reproduce it
18:37 <+MrHairgrease> ok
19:32 < ckotil> wheres the dev  section now with the new sites?
19:32 < ckotil> im looking for the api docs
19:32 < ckotil> nvm
19:32 < ckotil> www.plainblack.com/dev
19:33 < ckotil> doh. that doesnt appear to be it either
19:33 <@rizen> everything dev related was moved into the wiki
19:33 < ckotil> k
19:33 < ckotil> should redirect plainblack.com/dev to the wiki
19:34 <@rizen> fuck the fucking fuckers
19:35 < ckotil> righton , such a versatile word
19:36 <@rizen> indeed
19:42 <@rizen> there, it's redirected. are you happy now?
19:42 <@rizen> =)
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22:17 < wgGuest58> I'm contemplating using WebGUI to run our intranet.  Folks routinely drag files to folders on our shared drives.  I think getting them to use the webGUI interface to save folder will be too much so I plan to just use links on the pages to the folders.  Is this pretty straight forward?  the demo version had some defaults that wouldn't let me do this.
22:19 <@rizen> yes you can do that
22:19 <@rizen> and it's relatively easy to do...if i understand you correctly
22:19 <@rizen> i think there's also either a macro or an asset
22:19 <@rizen> in the add ons section
22:19 <@rizen> that will read a list of files
22:20 <@rizen> in a folder
22:20 <@rizen> and display links to them in an automated fashion
22:20 <@rizen> if i'm wrong, it would be pretty trivial to create such an animal
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22:21 < wgGuest58> I suspected as much - thanks for the confirmation.  Just to be clear, you say it would
22:21 < wgGuest58> be pretty easy to have a macro have the website reflect what's in the folders?
22:21 < ckotil> yes.
22:22 < wgGuest58> thanks for the help.
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22:22 < ckotil> haha, he's from dslindiana
22:22 < ckotil> didnt know there was such a thing
22:24 <@rizen> must be a regional thing
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22:33 < ckotil> they're based in indianapolis
22:33 < ckotil> interesing new workflow modes!
22:34 <@rizen> what's interesting about them?
22:34 <@rizen> btw...have you started checking in your triggers yet?
22:34 < ckotil> not sure yet. about to read the floating help screen to see whats new
22:34 < ckotil> no, i havent had time to work on them.
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22:35 <@rizen> can you let me know if you don't think you'll get them done by the first week of july?
22:35 <@rizen> i need them to be in 7.4, so i'll have to do it if you can't
22:35 < ckotil> ill squeeze them in before then
22:35 <@rizen> k
22:35 < ckotil> ill keep  you posted.
22:35 <@rizen> thanks
22:35 < ckotil> np
22:36 < ckotil> hrm floating help is too long, it gets hidden by the top of the screen. and  i have a fairly high resolution
22:37 <@rizen> i'll have to check that out and shorten it then
22:37 < ckotil> ya
22:37 <@rizen> i was sure i tested that before
22:37 <@rizen> what browser are you using?
22:37 < ckotil> ff mac
22:37 < ckotil> i can try it in ie too
22:37 < ckotil> ie7*
22:38 < ckotil> and ff windows while im at it
22:39 < ckotil> ya its an issue in ff mac/windows, and IE7
22:39 <@rizen> starting up my 7.4 install so i can look
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22:40 <@rizen> yikes
22:40 <@rizen> i guess i was a bit verbose
22:40 < ckotil> heh
22:40 < ckotil> yeah, how bout 1 -v instead of vvvvvvv
22:41 <@rizen> yeah jt, this is a help pop up not a book
22:41 <@rizen> =)
22:43 < ckotil> im trying to get pending version feedback working. i.e. after approving/denying a pending tag , i want to take my users to the manage pending version tag screen. so far ive been unsuccessful in 7.3.18, so im trying it in 7.4
22:43 < ckotil> graham has been working with me. he claims to have gotten it to work. i keep getting the insufficient credientials screen.
22:44 <@rizen> have you tried tripple clicking?
22:45 < ckotil> I have.
22:45 < ckotil> it works fine
22:45 < ckotil> my users however cannot
22:45 < ckotil> its total bullshit
22:45 < ckotil> they want me to write a script to list out all the pending version tags if i cannot get webgui to play nicely. (i know it will eventually)
22:45 < ckotil> but jeezus, they are so needy!
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22:47 < ckotil> i blame myself. you give them an inch and they take a mile
22:48 <@rizen> i don't know exactly what you're trying to do but if i do understand it, then it sounds trivial
22:49 <@rizen> and if graham made it work quickly you could just ask him for the code to do it
22:49 < ckotil> it does seem trivial
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22:50 < ckotil> and while i havent seen his code yet, it was only a couple lines that were edited. and really they were just substituted
22:50 < ckotil> which is making me think some other modification i made is screwing it up.
22:52 <@rizen> you should just ask him for the code
22:53 < ckotil> i will.
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22:56 <@rizen> there, i have decreased my verbosity
22:56 <@rizen> and still got the message across
22:56 < ckotil> cool
22:57 <@rizen> technically there is only one new mode
22:57 <@rizen> it's just that i gave functionality that was already there a name
22:58 <@rizen> parallel, singleton, and serial modes already existed, they just weren't as neatly specified
22:59 < ckotil> ya, i like it.
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23:44 < ckotil> http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-9729116-7.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-5
23:44 < ckotil> nooo!!
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--- Day changed Thu Jun 14 2007
00:04 <@rizen> are you telling me you don't already have an itunes account?
00:04 < ckotil> correct.
00:05 <@rizen> what kind of lame @$$ #&*#&$*# #&#& #&$*$(&@^&*$ &*# # doesn't have at least one ipod and an itunes account
00:05 <@rizen> o did i say that out loud
00:05 <@rizen> sorry
00:05 <@rizen> retract previous statement
00:05 < ckotil> i guess me
00:05 < ckotil> i dont have an ipod either
00:05 < ckotil> and i assumed iphone had gps...it doesnt.
00:05 <@rizen> do you have an mp3 player?
00:05 < ckotil> i used to have an archos jbmm20
00:05 <@rizen> iphone has gps
00:06 < ckotil> it left a sour taste in my mouth.
00:06 < ckotil> you sure?
00:06 < ckotil> ive read it doesnt.
00:06 <@rizen> i don't know if it has "gps capabilities" but all phones have gps
00:06 <@rizen> it's the law
00:06 < ckotil> well yeah.
00:06 < ckotil> fcc requires it.
00:07 < ckotil> maybe it will use  gps from the tower.
00:09 < ckotil> im just getting cold feet.
00:17 <@rizen> there are many reasons not to buy it
00:17 <@rizen> no third party apps, expensive, no gps
00:17 <@rizen> but there are also lots of reasons to buy it
00:18 <@rizen> one device that does it all, it's cool, it "just works", it does most everything you'd need without third party apps
00:19 <@rizen> i'm going to use mine as a laptop replacement
00:19 <@rizen> almost everywhere i go i take my laptop, for example, to perl mongers meetings
00:19 <@rizen> but i don't actually use my laptop there for anything that the iphone can't do
00:19 <@rizen> i also take my ipod and my digital camera with me
00:20 < ckotil> third part support was confirmed.
00:20 <@rizen> i'll use digital camera on the phone to take pictures, record the audio track using the ipod on the phone, and use the built in web browser if i need to look something up, or bookmark something
00:21 <@rizen> the only third party support you have are web browser apps
00:21 <@rizen> not real apps
00:21 < ckotil> ugh
00:21 <@rizen> granted, web browser apps are pretty cool
00:21 < ckotil> well, thats better than nothin.
00:21 < ckotil> javascript enabled, safari aps
00:21 <@rizen> and they do integrate with the phone
00:21 <@rizen> so you can touch a phone number and it will start a call
00:21 <@rizen> etc
00:21 <@rizen> but yeah, you can't install anything on the phone
00:22 < ckotil> gotcha.
00:22 < ckotil> it will be cool to look up a number via online yellow pages and hit call.
00:22 <@rizen> i think it's because they want everyone to have a "perfect'" experience with the phone...without other apps to slow it down or make it crash
00:22 <@rizen> yeah..that's the thing they demo'd at the conference this week
00:23 <@rizen> they built a web interface to the ldap repo at apple
00:23 <@rizen> and then you could see people's photos, managers, phone numbers, email addresses, and physical addresses
00:23 < ckotil> not to shabby
00:23 <@rizen> and clicking on email addresses and phone numbers did the right thing
00:24 <@rizen> it's cool for sure...but you can't integrate to the camera with that
00:24 <@rizen> or any of the other hardware components
00:25 <@rizen> so i guess it's only "half" cool from that perspective
00:25 <@rizen> but still...the phone is amazing as far as i'm concerned. way better than the phone i have now
00:25 <@rizen> and like i said...when i go places, i no longer have to bring laptop + phone + ipod + camera
00:26 < ckotil> yah, thats the big selling point for me
00:26 <@rizen> honestly the only app i wish it had that it doesn't is ssh
00:26 <@rizen> so if i absolutely had to, i could fix a server from my phone
00:27 < ckotil> no doubt.
00:27 < ckotil> thatd be a god send.
00:27 < ckotil> i hope to have something like that SOON.
00:27 < ckotil> before i move out west , for when im on the slopes skiing and a server goes down
00:28  * ckotil sighs
00:28 < ckotil> some day..
00:29 < ckotil> its about that time. heading home.
00:29 <@rizen> later
01:03 <+perlDreamer> ckotil, found a thread that might interest you...
01:03 <+perlDreamer> http://www.webgui.org/etcetera/wrebuild-error-on-lftp/re-wrebuild-error-on-lftp#idAtUdPPvxrg4jUdkrNgys-g
01:03 <+perlDreamer> these guys had lftp build problems.  They needed a new ncurses-dev
01:19 <+perlDreamer> bug fix pending...
02:00 <+perlDreamer> rizen: I've just finalized my bug fix for this one:
02:00 <+perlDreamer> http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/uploaded-file-sizes-wrong#8ao9yNQrxFyJNTUaU7ARPA
02:00 <+perlDreamer> I now need to write a script to fix all the borken assets in the db with the wrong size
02:00 <+perlDreamer> should I update or commit changes like that?
02:09 <+perlDreamer> The upgrade script could run for a long time, since it needs to iterate over all File and Image assets.
02:09 <+perlDreamer> --bug
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02:39 <+Radix_> pfft.. my windows mobile phone can do everything that the iphone does.. AND it can do ssh ;)
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02:43 < nuba> huh. there's pssh for palm, too
02:44 <+Radix_> yeah, but palm is dead ;)
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03:31 < nuba> well mine is quite alive
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03:51 < nuba> but that's because of pssh, mostly
03:53 < nuba> ie. i never found a mail client for palm better than pine
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05:49 < vayde> Gah!  I just saw an END block inside of a BEGIN block inside of an IF block
05:49  * vayde shudders
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15:05 < pjesi> phew, I managed to fix my mess
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15:33 < SDuensin> Howdy.
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16:11 < AMH_bob> Good morning!
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16:15 < SDuensin> Hey AMH_bob 
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16:33 < AMH_bob> Bake from my break - playing table fussball
16:34 < AMH_bob> eh, back
16:35 < AMH_bob> I'm pumping out production templates right now... about 25 templates in 5 colors each - party time!
16:35 < SDuensin> Fun.
16:35 < AMH_bob> :P
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03:41 < SDuensin> Hmmm...  Interesting...
03:41 < SDuensin> I selected six MP3 files, cut them to the clipboard.  Went to another location in the Asset Manager.  Checked an item, clicked Delete...
03:42 < SDuensin> Went somewhere else in the Asset Manager.  Then I was going to paste the MP3s...   They're gone!  Nowhere to be found!
03:42 < SDuensin> They're not in the trash, not on the clipboard, not in any revisions.
03:42 < SDuensin> I searched the Asset Manager.  Nope.
03:43 < SDuensin> Did a "locate" on the drive.  They're still there.  Ran rebuildLineage for fun.  No dice.
03:43 < nuba> guess webgui now has DRM.. and it blocks people from making copies of mp3 files ;)
03:43 < SDuensin> WTF happened?
03:43  * SDuensin introduces WebGUI to the Creative Commons.  :-)
03:44 < nuba> probably RIAA posted a RFE while no one was looking
03:44 < SDuensin> I can reupload them to WebGUI, but I don't want to confuse it if it thinks they're still out there somewhere.
03:45 <+Radix-wrk> wierd
03:46 <+Radix-wrk> the location you deleted tho..
03:46 <+Radix-wrk> was it the directory where the mp3's were stored?
03:46 < nuba> try a find /data/ -type f -iname "*mp3" to see if you can spot it in the directory tree
03:47 <+Radix-wrk> if you delete the parent - regardless of whether the items were on the clipboard or not, the children are deleted too
03:47 <+Radix-wrk> try checking your trash and system trash
03:48 < SDuensin> Not in the trash.  I don't think they were children.  Maybe though.
03:49 < SDuensin> If I move them out of /data/, should I delete the folders they're in, or will that cause chaos?
03:49 <+Radix-wrk> is the parent item still in the trash?
03:49 <+Radix-wrk> or the item you deleted earlier
03:50 < SDuensin> DOH!  Yes.  I'm an idiot.
03:50 < SDuensin> Thank you.  :-)
03:50 <+Radix-wrk> if so, I'd try restoring that item
03:50 <+Radix-wrk> so the mp3's came back? :)
03:50 < SDuensin> Yes.
03:50 <+Radix-wrk> cool
03:51 <+Radix-wrk> move them - then delete it ;)
03:51 <+Radix-wrk> webgui's copy to clipboard doesn't actually move the files at all - just tags them
03:51 < SDuensin> Good idea.  :-)
03:51 <+Radix-wrk> so if you delete the parent while they're on the clipboard, they go too
03:52 <+Radix-wrk> can be confusing if you're not aware of it I know ;)
03:52 < SDuensin> I knew better.  I've seen other people ask the same thing.
03:53 <+Radix-wrk> Sometimes it takes personal experience to teach a lesson ;)
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15:38 < SDuensin> FRIDAY!
15:53 < ckotil> indeed. and hwat used to be payday
15:54 < ckotil> i got bumped to monthyly salary
15:54 < ckotil> still waiting for my first huge check.
15:55 < SDuensin> Money is good.  :-)
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21:21 <+crythias> ah, yeah. It's me. we can all scatter, now.
21:29 <@rizen> nobody scatters from you, we all scatter to you, and hump your leg like a little puppy
21:29 <@rizen> =)
21:29 <+crythias> I kick y'all off with derision. 
21:29 <+crythias> and wipe the stains from my pant leg.
22:38 <@rizen> FYI, if any of you are coming to the WUC this year, add yourself to the wiki: http://www.plainblack.com/wuc/community
22:38 <@rizen> and and let us know if you want to set up any BOFS http://www.plainblack.com/wuc/wiki/bofs
22:39 <@rizen> so we can make arrangements for rooms to be available
22:40 -!- rizen changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.3.18 | WRE 0.7.2 ] - Come To The WUC http://www.plainblack.com/wuc
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00:16 <+crythias> Interesting. it's not quite clear *when* the wuc is, ... click the schedule, it says, "Day 1" ... Click Hotel it says Rates... Click Registration and you get the badge .. thing.
00:17 <+crythias> ok, well, I meant, if you started on the links ^^^
00:18 <+crythias> If I might make a suggestion, put the dates so they end up in the title of the page.
00:22 <+crythias> oh, and rizen, get off my leg :-P
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00:39 <+perlDreamer> Guys, we need to find a way to get Tina Gasperson to write about WebGUI instead of metadot
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00:44 <+perlDreamer> http://business.newsforge.com/business/07/06/07/207245.shtml?tid=132&tid=3
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01:27 < nuba> getting an error with that url.. >The failure reason is: xarDB_init: Failed to connect to xarmysql://xardba@xaraya-db-2/lc_live1, error message: Too many connections
01:28 < nuba> looks like their Xaraya (just found out its a postnuke fork) setup is broken
01:28 < nuba> just aobut time for them to replace it with WebGUI!!! :)
01:41 <@preaction> postnuke was popular enough to get forks? it was poorly-engineered crap!
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19:00 <@rizen> howdy all
23:04 < diakopter> howdy
23:05 <@rizen> that might be the most delayed howdy in this history of the universe
23:05  * diakopter forks another history of the universe
23:06 <@rizen> if our transaction rate does not increase, we'll be speaking as slow as Ents
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23:56 <+perlDreamer> hoom
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04:07 < cap10morgan> Has anyone ever written a module to allow WebGUI to be an OpenID server? I.e. use the WebGUI auth system to serve OpenIDs for that domain?
05:26  * Radix-wrk googles OpenID to find out what it is.
05:32 <+Radix-wrk> Could be worth USD$5000 to the OS project who implements it according to iwantmyopenid.org
05:32 <+Radix-wrk> http://iwantmyopenid.org/bounty
05:33 < cap10morgan> Radix-wrk: yeah, I saw that. Did you read the requirements? 200,000 users and 5,000 downloads / month. Does WebGUI meet that?
05:34 <+Radix-wrk> no idea
05:38 < cap10morgan> they have lots of popular/crappy CMS's in there
05:38 < cap10morgan> in the list of projects they want to give a bounty for
05:38 < cap10morgan> the big three: Drupal, Joomla, and Plone
05:38 < cap10morgan> actually Plone may not be that bad
05:38 < cap10morgan> I hate Drupal and Joomla
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09:10 <@preaction> cap10morgan: 200,000 end users? 5000 downloads / month? does it count the 400+ plainblack-hosted sites? the sourceforge project averages 150 downloads / day. this isn't to mention the official repo at http://update.webgui.org
09:16 <+Radix-wrk> preaction: http://iwantmyopenid.org/bounty
09:17 <@preaction> i didn't think they were still looking for things after two years
09:18 <+Radix-wrk> 2 years? huh?
09:19 <@preaction> 1 years maybe
09:19 <@preaction> no, this is openID 2.0, they might've offered it for OpenID 1.0 too
09:20 <@preaction> but if you're going to implement openID, why not just go with Yadis?
09:20  * Radix-wrk googles yadis
09:21 <+Radix-wrk> because yadis aren't offering US$5k to implement it?
09:21 <@preaction> but by implementing yadis+openID you get both
09:22 <+Radix-wrk> sure, I guess
09:22 <@preaction> yadis is like an interface layer on top of OpenID/LID
09:23 <@preaction> wait, yadis just describes what interfaces a URL supports
09:23 <+Radix-wrk> preaction: I just went to webgui.org again and I'm logged in as meatbop
09:24 <@preaction> can you access anything?
09:24 <+Radix-wrk> I just hit turn admin on and can now see admin console
09:24 <+Radix-wrk> I went to statistics and can see the full stats for it
09:25 <@preaction> okay, that's bad
09:25 <@preaction> hang on
09:25 <+Radix-wrk> JT asked me to let him know if it happened again
09:25 <+Radix-wrk> this is the second time it's happened
09:25 <+Radix-wrk> Assets:	48303
09:25 <+Radix-wrk> Packages:	11
09:25 <+Radix-wrk> Templates:	364
09:25 <+Radix-wrk> Active Sessions:	186410
09:25 <+Radix-wrk> Users:	8240
09:25 <+Radix-wrk> Groups:	12855
09:27 <+Radix-wrk> my ip should be 203.161.68.67 if you want to see what session I'm in
09:29 <@preaction> i found it, but damned if i know how it happened
09:30 <+Radix-wrk> it's happened twice now, both times I've just typed 'webgui.org' into firefox
09:31 <+Radix-wrk> I'll email JT and just leave the session open for the moment - maybe he can debug it and figure out why
09:31 <@preaction> here's your session id: GmxMBwYIZmgDKuyjUwACAg
09:34 <+Radix-wrk> lol.. taking a screenshot for JT to see, and it's got me as the banner pic - people behind webgui - how poignant!
09:34 <@preaction> lol
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15:57 < SDuensin> Good morning.
16:13 -!- wgGuest17 [n=wgGuest1@69.39.128.166] has joined #webgui
16:14 <@preaction> good morning
16:14 < wgGuest17> I nearly have our IT conviced that we need WebGUI to run our intranet.  His last comment: "how much space does it take up - our servers are limited"  We'll be using the WRE on a windows 2003 server
16:14 < wgGuest17> i downloaded and unzipped it - but I assume installed size is much biggeR?
16:15 <@preaction> WebGUI itself takes about 25M, the WRE takes a bit more (80-100M i think). your site may take lots
16:15 <@preaction> but the overhead for the server is about 100-125M
16:15 <@preaction> (if you're using the WRE, of course)
16:16 < wgGuest17> So 250MB is a safe, over-conservative answer to give him?
16:17 <@preaction> let me verify before i give you inaccurate data
16:19 <@preaction> looks like WRE for windows is only about 75M, so 100M for the server. so 250 should be plenty conservative (Depending on how big you anticipate your site growing)
16:20 < wgGuest17> Thanks a ton.  Once I get it going, I have a few custom ideas so I'll definitely be in touch.  Thanks, Greg  gfulk@paragoncompanies.com
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16:20 <@preaction> good way to start monday: another convert to the cause
16:22 < SDuensin> :-)
16:24 <@preaction> offset by bad way to start monday: after working nearly 96 hours straight I'm not done with my project due in 30 minutes :p
16:25 < SDuensin> Well, quit screwing around here and get to work!
16:35 <@preaction> I bestow upon you the time-waster of all time-wasters: http://www.handdrawngames.com/DesktopTD/
16:36 < SDuensin> Noooo!
17:00 < AMH_bob> :P I'll try that one at 5 pm
17:01 < AMH_bob> Goof morning!
17:15 < SDuensin> Goof indeed.
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03:57 <+Radix-wrk> rizen: you around?
03:57 <@rizen> nope
03:57 <+Radix-wrk> I'm still logged in as meatbop if you're interested
03:57 <@rizen> i never logged you out
03:57 <@rizen> i emailed you some questions
03:58 <+Radix-wrk> all I did was type in 'webgui.org' in firefox's address bar
03:58 <@rizen> i think i know what caused this
03:58 <+Radix-wrk> oh?
04:00 <@rizen> see if you're still logged in as meatbop
04:00 <+Radix-wrk> nup
04:01 <+Radix-wrk> logged me out as soon as I clicked on a link
04:01 <+Radix-wrk> what was it then?
04:02 <@rizen> at one point we had our single sign on stuff going through snippets which were set to cache
04:02 <@rizen> so you picked up steve's sessionId
04:02 <@rizen> then steve never logged out, so his sessionId never went away
04:02 <@rizen> and you got his cookie
04:02 <+Radix-wrk> Ahh k
04:02  * Radix-wrk ate his cookie.
04:03 <+Radix-wrk> Cool.. well glad I found it and not a random visitor.
04:03 <@rizen> me too
04:06 <+Radix-wrk> did you like the screenshot I sent btw.. I thought it rather poignant that the banner of me was there 'people behind webgui' indeed ;)
04:06 <@rizen> honestly didn't notice that part
04:07 <+Radix-wrk> hehe
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16:02 < ckotil> will the calendar asset output an ics file
16:02 < ckotil> ?
16:02 < ckotil> for me to download.
16:16 < SDuensin> Good morning!
18:00 <@preaction> ckotil: yes, ?func=ical
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22:29 < perlmonkey2> Rizen you there?
22:29 <@rizen> yup
22:30 <@rizen> how's the survey coming?
22:30 < perlmonkey2> I'm thinking of taking all of next week off to work on the survey.
22:30 <@rizen> sweet
22:30 < perlmonkey2> Has anything changed?
22:30 <@rizen> nope
22:30 <@rizen> oh, except i have a deadline for 7.4
22:30 <@rizen> we'll be putting out the first beta on Monday July 23.
22:31 <@rizen> All checkins will be due July 21.
22:31 < perlmonkey2> I should be able to make that.
22:42  * SDuensin is waiting for 7.3.19.  :-P
22:42 <@rizen> never going to happen
22:42 <@rizen> just kidding
22:42 <@rizen> it will either be out this week or next
22:43 < SDuensin> All my podcasts are 300 bytes long!
22:43 <@rizen> is that a bug in webgui?
22:43 <@rizen> and has it been fixed in 7.3.19?
22:43 < SDuensin> Yep.  And yep.
22:44 < SDuensin> You upload to a folder asset and it reports everything correctly.  Then you commit the tag and the size changes to 300 or so bytes.
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00:03 < ckotil> preaction: cool. mines not working...im almost certain that its due to malformed ics file
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01:36 < cap10morgan> Has anyone gotten the WRE to compile on an x86_64 machine?
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03:47 <+Radix_> cap10morgan: no, but I managed to use the wre rhel4 binary on an x86-64 machine - just needed some extra libraries and a bit of tweaking
03:52 < cap10morgan> Radix_: yeah, may have to give that a try...
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15:46 < SDuensin> Good morning!
16:02 < ckotil> Hi.
16:03 < ckotil> Im driving up to indianapolis today to install windows server 2003 w/ terminal services..yay!
16:03 < SDuensin> Oh yea.  THAT sounds fun.  :-P
16:04 < ckotil> yeah. shouldnt be too bad.
16:04 < ckotil> ive never done it, but im pretty certain its point n click
16:06 < ckotil> heading out. have a good day
16:06 < SDuensin> It's Windows.  What could _possibly_ go wrong?  :-)
16:06 < SDuensin> Later bud!
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21:37 <@preaction> rizen_: have you frozen for release of 7.3.19 yet?
21:37 < rizen_> nope...it's going out next wednesday instead of today
21:37 <@preaction> ok, thanks
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23:15 <@preaction> how can I edit the URL of a branch? i deployed a package but now I want the sub-assets to take on the url of their parent? will edit branch do this? i've heard conflicting stories about how to accomplish this
23:16 <@rizen> yes
23:16 <@rizen> edit branch will do it
23:16 <@rizen> however, right now edit branch is kind of dangerous if you need to do it on thousands of assets at once
23:16 <@rizen> because it will start the process
23:16 <@rizen> and then apache will time out
23:16 <@preaction> just a dozen or so, so it should be fine
23:17 <@rizen> we need to change edit branch to spew back it's results like the export function does
23:17 <@rizen> Anybody out there worked with perl IO::Socket?
23:17 <@rizen> i need help trying to figure out how to flush a buffer
23:17 <@rizen> i want to do:
23:17 <@rizen> print $socket "this";
23:17 <@rizen> sleep 4;
23:18 <@rizen> print $socket "that";
23:18 <@rizen> the problem is that my content seems to be getting trapped in a buffer
23:18 <@preaction> $io->autoflush(1); i believe
23:18 <@rizen> it's not getting sent until the entire connection closes
23:18 <@preaction> i think that's a part of the IO::Handle superclass
23:19 <@rizen> the IO::Socket documentation says that autoflush is turned on by default
23:19 <@rizen> but i'll give that a try
23:19 <@rizen> i'm desperate
23:29 <@rizen> nevermind....safari is a pile of shit
23:30 <@rizen> doing:   select $socket; $|=1; works in all browsers except safari
23:33 <@preaction> maybe safari itself is buffering
23:34 <@rizen> that's what appears to be happening
23:35 <@rizen> i thought that died with netscape 4
23:36 < nuba> just found theres yet another wysiwyg editor http://xinha.python-hosting.com/wiki/Examples
23:37 < nuba> i just noticed fastmail.fm allows you to choose between fckeditor, htmlarea and xinha
23:38 < nuba> so if its in the same league, i figured you may like to know it exists, if you dont already
23:39 <@rizen> unless it somehow surpasses TinyMCE, don't really care. we do too much tight integration with the rich editor to do it for multiple rich editors
23:39 <@preaction> looks like it works a lot like the TinyMCE
23:42 < nuba> yeah, well, its not like im suggesting to replace the current one with it, i've only mentioned it cause it made a bleep in the radar
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03:31 < cap10morgan> what's the best way to login a user via the API, regardless of the auth method they use?
03:31 < cap10morgan> WebGUI::Auth::authenticate?
03:42 < rizen_> its actually even easier than that
03:43 < rizen_> $session->user({userId=>$id});
03:43 < rizen_> that's it
03:43 < rizen_> or if you already have a user object you can do
03:43 < rizen_> $session->user({user=>$obj});
03:44 < cap10morgan> is there a way to actually authenticate them too? I'm trying to piggyback another login system on top of WebGUI
03:46 < rizen_> that's what i'm saying....you authenticate them using whatever method you want
03:46 < rizen_> and then once authenticated you use the thing i said above
03:47 < rizen_> oh...wait
03:47 < cap10morgan> i want them to enter their webgui username and password, then i want to ask webgui if that's right or not
03:47 < rizen_> i see now
03:47 < rizen_> sorry
03:47 < rizen_> wasn't getting that
03:47 < cap10morgan> no worries, i wasn't very clear
03:48 < rizen_> yes use WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI::authenticate
03:49 < cap10morgan> i need to go straight to the particular auth method?
03:49 < cap10morgan> i think that's ok as i don't have any ldap users currently, but was wondering if i could future proof it a little
03:49 < rizen_> yes...because the base auth method doesn't do passwords
03:49 < cap10morgan> gotcha
03:49 < cap10morgan> i guess i could try both in sequence if i really wanted to support both methods
03:49 <@preaction> or string eval
03:50 < rizen_> use the logic in WebGUI::Operation::Auth to autoload the proper module
03:50 <@preaction> or maybe WebGUI::Auth::$authType::authenticate would actually work
03:50 < rizen_> no, WebGUI::Auth is OO
03:51 < rizen_> so you have to create an object first
03:51 < rizen_> then do $obj->authenticate
03:51 < rizen_> there's a subroutine in WebGUI::Operation::Auth called getInstance that will load the proper auth module for you
03:51 < rizen_> automagically
03:52 < cap10morgan> hey that's pretty slick
03:52 < cap10morgan> i'll use that
03:52 < rizen_> exit
03:52 < rizen_> oops...wrong terminal
03:52 < rizen_> =)
03:52 < cap10morgan> hehe :)
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04:03 < cap10morgan> is there a way to get a user object when you just have a username and password?
04:03 < cap10morgan> I see methods for userId and email, but not the username
04:04 <@rizen> no, but there should be
04:04 <@rizen> it's lame that we don't have that right now
04:12 < cap10morgan> so if i submit a patch, that could end up in 7.3.19? :)
04:13 <@rizen> nope
04:13 <@rizen> it's an api change
04:13 <@rizen> so it would make it into 7.4.0
04:13 <@rizen> but not 7.3.19
04:13 < cap10morgan> oh, ok
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11:57 < xdanger> rizen: I have a client how wants to add the mailing-list functionality to their CS, but they only have imap4s and pop3s access to their mailserver. Do you have any ideas on how I could make that possible?
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16:07 < SDuensin> Good morning.
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16:45 < AMH_bob> Good morning!
17:10 < SDuensin> Hey AMH_bob 
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17:48 <@rizen> howdy
18:03 <@preaction> by default assets inherit the security properties (groupIdView, groupIdEdit) of their parent, correct? without me having to explicitly do that in processPropertiesFromFormPost()?
18:03 <@rizen> yes
18:04 <@rizen> i should say that they do it on the www_add method...that way the user has a chance to override that behavior before hitting safe
18:04 <@rizen> save
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03:24 < wgGuest66> Hi All
03:25 <@rizen> howdy
03:26 < wgGuest66> I had a question that I hoped someone would have an answer to...Is WebGUI able to be an CMS with an ecommerce solution for small businesses online???
03:27 <@rizen> yup...lots of webgui sites sell products, services, and subscriptions
03:27 <@rizen> including plainblack.com
03:27 <@rizen> the Content Manager's Guide shows you how to set up a store
03:29 < wgGuest66> The reason I ask is that ValueCMS hosting gives suitability criteria, and this is what their site says: 
03:30 < wgGuest66> It won't paste...I dislike java sometimes
03:30 <@preaction> paste the link perhaps?
03:30 <@rizen> sure
03:30 <@rizen> let me just go look at their site
03:30 < wgGuest66> okay thanks
03:31 <@rizen> http://www.valuecms.com/is_it_suitable_for_me
03:31 < wgGuest66> yes that is it
03:31 < wgGuest66> I still couldn't paste it
03:31 <@rizen> I'm not using the java IRC client
03:31 <@rizen> i'm connected directly
03:32 <@rizen> anyway...the reason their site says that is because they host WebGUI 5
03:32 <@rizen> but most of the world runs WebGUI 7
03:32 < wgGuest66> okay thanks for the fast response
03:32 <@rizen> they're a few years behind on upgrades
03:32 < wgGuest66> So it is not accurate
03:33 <@rizen> it is accurate for WebGUI 5
03:33 <@rizen> but not for WebGUI 7
03:33 < wgGuest66> I see
03:33 < wgGuest66> Okay
03:33 < wgGuest66> So as far as hosting goes they would not be a good choice
03:33 < wgGuest66> Obviously
03:33 <@rizen> Not if you want ecommerce
03:34 < wgGuest66> Any suggestions outside of PlainBlack hosting
03:35 <@rizen> since i work for plain black not really
03:35 <@rizen> can't bite the hand that feeds
03:35 < wgGuest66> That is okay Thanks...I just wanted something a little less expensive
03:35 < wgGuest66> with support
03:36 <@preaction> it seems that most of the top sites on google for "webgui hosting" are running ancient versions :(
03:36 <@preaction> geekuprising, valuecms, cybersalad
03:37 < wgGuest66> cybersalad did say they would install whatever version of WebGUI you wanted to install, so there is hope, but I still have to check out support
03:38 <@rizen> sorry. i know we're not the cheapest hosting service around, but we are the best.
03:38 < wgGuest66> Thanks Rizen for your help in understanding the dilemma I was having
03:38 <@rizen> if  you find a good hoster you could add it to this list: http://www.webgui.o