--- Log opened Sun Apr 01 00:00:24 2007
00:11 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has joined #webgui
00:11 -!- mode/#webgui [+o vayde] by ChanServ
01:13 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit []
01:42 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui []
01:54 <@vayde> cap10morgan, how irritating is that leading space problem in DateTime?
01:54 < cap10morgan> vayde: heh, pretty annoying
01:54 < cap10morgan> oh, that's probably already reported as a bug, isn't it?
01:54 < cap10morgan> it just occurred to me that i didn't even check... :/
01:54 <@vayde> The reason I ask, is that's the proper behavior of the perl DateTime module
01:55 < cap10morgan> vayde: oh...
01:55 < cap10morgan> suck
01:55 <@vayde> Yeah, you have been burining up the bug reports
01:55 < cap10morgan> haha, it's true
01:55 <@vayde> I can figure a way to work around it, but i'm wondering if that's put in there for a reason.
01:55 <@vayde> I don't know what that reason might be though.
01:55 < cap10morgan> vayde: yeah, seems pretty weird
01:56 < cap10morgan> the month %M one doesn't do that
01:56 <@vayde> that's cos there's a workaround in the wG version.
01:57 <@vayde> now that you point that out, that tells me what to do.  thanks
01:57 <@vayde> I just didn't want to change it before giving someone a chance to point out why the leading space was necessary in some obscure way.
02:00 <@vayde> Fixed your '+' in emails too btw
02:11 < cap10morgan> yeah, i saw that thanks
02:11 < cap10morgan> thanks for fixing this one too :)
02:12 < cap10morgan> if you told a workflow to run in the scheduler (i.e. the manual "Run" link), and it just didn't do anything (nothing in the log, not even at info level), what would be the first things to check?
02:25 -!- cap10morgan is now known as cap10morgan_afk
02:28 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
02:37 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["90% of the problems that people have with GNU/Linux are to impute to Windows."]
03:32 -!- cap10morgan_afk [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has quit []
03:33 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui
03:37 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has joined #webgui
03:37 -!- mode/#webgui [+o vayde] by ChanServ
07:48 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has quit []
08:15 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui
08:15 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ
08:58 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
09:06 -!- besonen_mobile [n=besonen_@71-220-225-182.eugn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
09:28 -!- besonen_mobile [n=besonen_@71-220-225-182.eugn.qwest.net] has joined #webgui
09:52 -!- cap10morgan_afk [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has joined #webgui
13:45 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #webgui
16:38 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui
16:39 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ
18:13 -!- cap10morgan_afk is now known as cap10morgan
18:31 -!- Netsplit leguin.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: SDuensin
18:31 -!- Netsplit over, joins: SDuensin
18:38 -!- Netsplit leguin.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: SDuensin
18:38 -!- Netsplit over, joins: SDuensin
18:55 -!- Netsplit leguin.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: SDuensin
18:57 -!- Netsplit over, joins: SDuensin
19:19 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has joined #webgui
19:19 -!- mode/#webgui [+o vayde] by ChanServ
19:42 -!- Netsplit leguin.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: SDuensin
19:47 -!- Netsplit over, joins: SDuensin
21:42 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
22:05 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
--- Day changed Mon Apr 02 2007
01:04 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI
02:02 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui []
02:10 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui
02:33 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit []
03:13 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui
03:14 -!- mode/#webgui [+v Radix-wrk] by ChanServ
03:49 -!- vayde_ [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has joined #webgui
03:51 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
03:58 -!- vayde_ [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
04:24 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has joined #webgui
04:24 -!- mode/#webgui [+o vayde] by ChanServ
06:08 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui
06:08 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ
07:42 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui
07:42 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ
07:42 <+perlDreamer> vayde!  You're up late tonight
07:43 <@vayde> Late?  Oh I don't know
07:44 <@vayde> Mostly been hangin out hopin you'd show up
07:44 <+perlDreamer> I was in Seattle over the weekend
07:45 <+perlDreamer> any luck with your www_view stuff?
07:45 <@vayde> I haven't really messed with it this weekend.  I was hunting other bugs
07:46 <+perlDreamer> I buttoned up the isSingleton one just now.
07:46 <+perlDreamer> isSingleton wasn't checked in www_editSaveWorkflow
07:46 <+perlDreamer> :(
07:46 <@vayde> It really only showed up in a test wobject I was playing with, so I chalked it up to my mistake.  However I get the same puzzler with debugs put into Asset.pm
07:46 <@vayde> damn.  I was gonna start the day tomorrow with a simple one.
07:47 <+perlDreamer> ah, sorry about that.  But I know why you're having www_view problems.
07:47 <+perlDreamer> Wobjects inherit from Wobject.pm
07:47 <@vayde> Please enlighten me
07:47 <+perlDreamer> Wobject.pm's www_view does not call SUPER
07:48 <@vayde> I must have mistyped
07:48 <+perlDreamer> you put stuff into Wobject.pm's www_view and it doesn't get called?
07:48 <@vayde> that works allright
07:49 <@vayde> putting stuff into Asset.pm 's www_view method doesn't work
07:49 <@vayde> putting them in both yields Wobject.pm 's message only.
07:49 <@vayde> hence it looked like somehow the base class was overriding the derived class
07:49 <+perlDreamer> it is
07:49 <+perlDreamer> Wobject.pm has a www_view
07:50 <+perlDreamer> it doesn't call SUPER
07:50 <+perlDreamer> so it's overridden, not extended
07:50 <@vayde> Oh duh!  Wobject inherits from Asset, not the other way around
07:51 <@vayde> I was thinking Article, and putting my statements into Asset
07:51 <@vayde> Well, I knew there was a problem, and it turns out that problem is me!
07:52 <+perlDreamer> I don't suppose preaction said anything about MrHairGrease's proposed Post.pm fix?
07:52 <@preaction> perlDreamer: didn't work.
07:52 <+perlDreamer> bummer
07:54 <+perlDreamer> I've been drooling over this
07:54 <+perlDreamer> http://sourceforge.net/projects/smolder
08:00 <+perlDreamer> Back in December I did some P6 test hacking.
08:00 <+perlDreamer> They use something that looks like Smolder (may actually be)
08:00 <+perlDreamer> It was awesome
08:01 <@vayde> Hmm.  No, it's not just me.  Putting the following into Article.pm yields nothing:  $self->session->errorHandler->warn('foo');  print STDERR "foo \n";
08:02 <@vayde> neither on the page or in the logs.  It's like the method isn't being called.
08:03 <+perlDreamer> restarted Apache after changing it?
08:03 <@vayde> yeah, couple of times
08:03 <@vayde> and dumped the caceh
08:03 <@vayde> cache
08:05 <@vayde> Been wracking my brain trying to find out how that would even be possible, and if it is, how we're doing it.  Seems to be an interesting trick.
08:06 <@vayde> even this doesn't work: die "ARRRGH! \n";
08:09 <+perlDreamer> I'm getting the same thing
08:09 <+perlDreamer> Wobject's www_view is being called
08:09 <@vayde> Oh good, then it's not just me.
08:10 <@vayde> rizen said something about it being a wG thing, but didn't have time to explain.  I may not have communicated what was going on precisely though
08:10 <+perlDreamer> hang on, I have an idea
08:11 <+perlDreamer> The article you're looking at, is it inside a Layout?
08:11 <@vayde> Page layout?  Yes.
08:11 <+perlDreamer> that is why
08:11 <+perlDreamer> I think
08:11 <+perlDreamer> Layout calls the child Asset's prepareView directly
08:12 <+perlDreamer> so it never invokes www_view
08:12 <+perlDreamer> The Wobject call is from the Layout, not from the article
08:12 <+perlDreamer> if you view the Article URL directly, you should see it pop-up
08:12 <@vayde> Since Layout basically means a page, isn't everything technically in a Layout?
08:12 <+perlDreamer> no
08:13 <+perlDreamer> Assets, in wG 6.3, were originally concieved to be "pageless".
08:13 <+perlDreamer> you wouldn't need a container Asset to have a single Article.
08:13 <+perlDreamer> But most entry level wG users couldn't get the idea into their heards, so the Layout is used everywhere
08:14 <@vayde> Aha!  Light dawns on shady brook!
08:14 <+perlDreamer> but if you go directly to any Asset's URL, it will use whatever page style it is configured to have and render you "a page".
08:14 <@vayde> If I call it directly it dies screaming.  That's gratifying
08:14 <+perlDreamer> It's one of the hiccups people have with the CS
08:15 <+perlDreamer> some want it to remain "embedded" in the current page, rather than pushing down into the core CS asset itself
08:16 <+perlDreamer> this also means that cache specific behavior for the Article is not propagated up to the page through www_view.
08:17 <+perlDreamer> that's worth bringing up to JT, since viewing an Article on a page will increase the load on the server
08:18 <@vayde> I'll mention it to him
08:19 <+perlDreamer> tomorrow, if you like, I can show you the test scripts
08:19 <+perlDreamer> I've been told that my tests are a little confusing
08:19 <@vayde> I'll take any help you have time/interest in offering
08:20 <@vayde> especially when it prevents me from bugging JT or preaction.  I sense they cringe when I log on
08:21 <+Radix-wrk> "But most entry level wG users couldn't get the idea into their heards, so the Layout is used everywhere" - not just entry level wG users - I'm still this way and don't think that will ever change to be honest.
08:22 <+perlDreamer> I must be making large (and false) assumptions.
08:22 <+perlDreamer> my apologies
08:22 <+Radix-wrk> none taken ;)
08:22 <@vayde> I didn't really think of 'Layout' and 'Page Layout' as the same thing.  I just figured the page layout thing was a fancy interface to the page's properties.
08:23 <+perlDreamer> it is
08:24 <+perlDreamer> Layout is just a container.
08:24 <+perlDreamer> Like a Folder
08:24 <+perlDreamer> The Wiki is also pretty much a container.
08:24 <+perlDreamer> and the CS
08:24 <+perlDreamer> and the Calendar
08:24 <+perlDreamer> they don't really do much beyond aggregate data from their children
08:24 <@vayde> I see that now.  Thanks.  
08:32 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit [""more hacking in the morning""]
08:48 <@vayde> Well, that's it for me.  'night all
08:48 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
09:46 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
10:04 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui
10:05 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has quit []
10:08 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui
10:08 -!- mode/#webgui [+v Radix-wrk] by ChanServ
10:16 -!- Netsplit leguin.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: Hinrik, ckotil, perlbot, Radix__, cga, nuba, SDuensin, pjesi, +Radix-wrk, AMH_mari,  (+3 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
10:16 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @preaction, +Radix-wrk, AMH_mari, Hinrik, SDuensin, cga, besonen_mobile, Radix__, |thunder, ckotil (+3 more)
11:18 -!- Radix__ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
11:19 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has joined #webgui
11:19 -!- mode/#webgui [+v Radix_] by ChanServ
11:51 < nuba> so, while using WWW::Mechanize to mass migrate some content to Articles w/ file attachements i had to manually add the file input to the form before posting it, as it is currently added by javascript. should I file that as a bug ?
12:13 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"]
14:07 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
14:22 -!- AMH_bob [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui
15:49 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@91.sub-75-206-2.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI
15:49 < SDuensin> Good morning.
15:50 < pjesi> hi SDuensin
15:51 < SDuensin> Hey pjesi 
16:50 -!- vayde [n=vayde@209.134.142.196] has joined #webgui
16:50 -!- mode/#webgui [+o vayde] by ChanServ
17:12 -!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@ip70-189-104-178.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #webgui
17:37 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has joined #webgui
18:06 -!- AMH_bob [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 1.5.0.10/0000000000]"]
18:26 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:41 -!- preaction_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui
18:46 < preaction_> can someone here try to access http://commctrl.com and get a default webgui install page?
18:46 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
18:46 -!- preaction_ is now known as preaction
18:46 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ
18:46 <@preaction> just trying to check that my router is working right
18:47 < ckotil> its just loading and loading....
18:47 < ckotil> timed out
18:48 <@preaction> that's not as good
18:48 <@preaction> that sounds like what manuel does, since it's trying to run Perl CGI on a 90mhz machine.
18:48 <@preaction> when the router should be pointing to wyoh...
18:49 < ckotil> heh
18:49 < pjesi> I get a page
18:49 <@preaction> pjesi: a page with green on the top?
18:50 < pjesi> sorry I dont
18:50  * pjesi looked at the wrong tab
18:52 <@preaction> rofl... my DNS provider reset my settings?
18:52 < ckotil> I just experienced some wierd shit, was editing an asset, but never got attached to a version tag.
18:53 <@preaction> what kind of asset?
18:53 < ckotil> folder asset
18:54 <@preaction> that is weird
18:56 < ckotil> tell me about it. quite scary too
18:56 < ckotil> the manager caught the problem.
18:56 < ckotil> i have yet to expirience it
18:57 < ckotil> im hoping its related to me clearing the file cache via a scheduled task
18:59 -!- bopbop_ [n=kristi@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui
19:01 < perlmonkey2> preaction: run your own DNS cacheing service and no more problems with DNS providers :)
19:01 <@preaction> i lied, nothing in the DNS changed
19:01 <@preaction> the router restarted itself
19:01 <@preaction> everything Should work
19:01 <@preaction> it works internally, with my /etc/hosts files updated accordingly
19:12 < ckotil> damn, WebGUI dir is at half a gig now
19:13 < SDuensin> That's all?  You're not trying!
19:14 < ckotil> good to hear
19:14 < ckotil> pastebin paste
19:15 < ckotil> perlbot paste
19:15 < perlbot> Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.
19:15 < ckotil> http://sial.org/pbot/23946
19:15 < SDuensin> I've got one of about 5 sites half built and I'm at 1.5.  Moving it to my host is going to take forever.  :-)
19:15 < ckotil> weatherdata is really screwing me
19:17 < pjesi> topic is old :)
19:18 <@preaction> ckotil: you're going to have to comment out the sub that adds that column so that your upgrade can run successfully, after you restore from backup
19:19 <@preaction> one of these days someone should remind me to ask TMRFE for a week or two to build a better upgrade system
19:19 < ckotil> ok. so i need to restore my back up first?
19:19 < ckotil> then run upgrade.pl with the commented out sub?
19:20 <@preaction> yes, that upgrade (.10-.11) didn't get to finish because it died in the middle
19:20 < ckotil> ok, ya i see an open version tag
19:20 <@preaction> but the upgrade.pl script kept on going, which i would consider a bug but JT would call an RFE
19:21 < ckotil> heh
19:21 < ckotil> so this sub updateTemplates{}
19:21 <@preaction> no
19:21 <@preaction> there's a section after WebGUI::Session->open that is a list of subroutine calls
19:22 <@preaction> nevermind, there's only that one thing in that upgrade anyway
19:22 < ckotil> in  updrade_7.3.10-7.3.11.pl?
19:22 <@preaction> yeah, after my $session = start();
19:22 <@preaction> it's fixWeather or something
19:23 < ckotil> got it.
19:23 < ckotil> can i just rerun the upgrade script or must i bring up my backup?
19:23 <@preaction> how long has it been since the backup?
19:23 < ckotil> just did it a minute ago
19:24 < ckotil> jsut before the upgrade
19:24 <@preaction> it would probably be best to bring up the backup
19:24 < ckotil> k
19:24 <@preaction> somehow your site got the additional weather column without running the upgrade
19:24 < ckotil> i was told to add it while trying to fix  bug
19:24 < ckotil> :/
19:25 <@preaction> that'd be why
19:25 <@preaction> it's best to bring up the backup in case something in the 7.3.11 upgrade relies on something in the upgrade that failed
19:25 < ckotil> k
19:25 <@preaction> in this case, it probably did not happen, but better safe than sorry and other trite expressions
19:26 < ckotil> always
19:32 < ckotil> upgrade complete
19:32 < ckotil> thx
19:45 < ckotil> mmm paginated commite version goodness
19:45 < ckotil> commited
19:49 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has quit []
19:53 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui
19:53 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ
19:54 < SDuensin> Hey rizen 
19:54 <@rizen> howdy
20:12 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has joined #webgui
20:12 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ
20:55 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-3.adsl.indra.com] has joined #webgui
21:06 -!- wgGuest98 [n=wgGuest9@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui
21:07 -!- wgGuest98 is now known as snapcount
21:07 -!- mode/#webgui [+v snapcount] by ChanServ
21:07 <+snapcount> anybody home?
21:08 <+perlDreamer> hola
21:08 < pjesi> hæ
21:08 <+perlDreamer> how you doing, man?
21:09 <+snapcount> life is rough... I have to wait for at least 2 hours before WoW downloads
21:09 <+snapcount> =)
21:09 <+perlDreamer> I've been feeding your crickets
21:09 <+snapcount> heh
21:10 <+snapcount> I should enter the style wcc
21:10 <+snapcount> that would be funny
21:10 <+snapcount> Steve would get nausea
21:10 <+snapcount> lime green with orange
21:10 <+snapcount> lots of <blink> tags
21:10 <+snapcount> show off my design prowess
21:11 <+perlDreamer> blink is so 90's
21:11 <+perlDreamer> we need to update it for y2k
21:11 <+snapcount> I can bring it back
21:11 <+perlDreamer> we'll call it the "bling" tag
21:11 <+snapcount> there ya go
21:13 <+snapcount> I haven't had a chance to check out the acme entries...
21:13 <+snapcount> any good ones?
21:13  * SDuensin thinks so.   :-)
21:13 <+snapcount> what did you submit?
21:13 < SDuensin> The HGR Macro.
21:14 <+snapcount> what does it do?
21:14 < SDuensin> Lets you use Apple II high resolution images as assets.  :-D
21:15 <+snapcount> is there a reason that you couldn't do that without the macro?
21:15 <+snapcount> I don't really know what an Apple II high res image is or what's unique about it
21:15 < SDuensin> It reads them right off Apple II ProDOS formatted disk images and displays them as PNGs.
21:15 < pjesi> haha
21:15 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["90% of the problems that people have with GNU/Linux are to impute to Windows."]
21:16 < SDuensin> Apple II images are 240x192 six color images saved as an 8k raw memory dump of the video page of an Apple II.
21:16 < SDuensin> They're encoded really funky like.  Woz managed to get six displayable colors (there are actually 8, but two are white and two are black) out of a 1 bit memory map.
21:17 <+snapcount> well that definitely sounds like an acme contrib =)
21:17 <+snapcount> nicely done
21:17 < SDuensin> :-)
21:17 < SDuensin> I figured that was weird enough.
21:17 <+snapcount> I'm fresh out of Apple II's though
21:17 <+snapcount> so I guess I can't try it out
21:18 < SDuensin> I put a sample image in the archive.
21:18 <+snapcount> so the image can be stored on other OS's and still requires the macro?
21:18 <+snapcount> what does it do... translate to a web friendly binary format?
21:19 < SDuensin> Makes it a PNG
21:19 <+snapcount> ok the light bulb is starting to come on
21:19 <+snapcount> sounds pretty cool
21:20 < SDuensin> You can have multiple 8k pictures stored in a 140k ProDOS disk image.
21:20 < pjesi> SDuensin: how long time did it take you?
21:20 < SDuensin> Few days.  WebGUI API was the hardest part.   :-)
21:20 <+snapcount> I want to write a code breaking wobject
21:21 <+snapcount> for substitution ciphers
21:21 <+snapcount> not brute force though, that's gay
21:21 <+snapcount> I was going to have it use a frequency method
21:21 < SDuensin> Do a one-time pad.  Each run needs a new PM module.
21:21 <+snapcount> based on the language the message is in
21:22 < cap10morgan> so, we have around 55 domains in our webgui 7 installation
21:22 < cap10morgan> but spectre seems to be getting further and further behind
21:22 <+snapcount> The thing that interested me was the algorithim for breaking the cipher so I was going to write it all from scratch
21:22 <+snapcount> I just like to use WebGUI because of the API
21:22 <+snapcount> granted it's probably more familiar to me =)
21:23 < cap10morgan> the server has plenty more horsepower to throw at it, but how do i tell spectre to use it?
21:23 < cap10morgan> i've tried increasing the number of maxWorkers to 25
21:23 < cap10morgan> what else should i do?
21:23 <+snapcount> what is spectre getting hung up on?
21:24 < cap10morgan> the workflow queue just keeps getting longer and longer
21:24 < cap10morgan> it's processing through it all
21:24 < cap10morgan> but it just keeps growing
21:24 <+snapcount> latest version?
21:24 < cap10morgan> yeah
21:24 < cap10morgan> 7.3.13 in WRE 0.7.2
21:24 < cap10morgan> on RHEL 4
21:24 <+snapcount> there is probably a workflow that is hanging up
21:24 <+snapcount> spectre doesn't ignore those anymore
21:24 < cap10morgan> i'm watching spectre run, there doesn't seem to be
21:24 <+snapcount> it pushes them to the bottom of the que
21:25 <+snapcount> so if you have a list that is growing... that would be my first guess
21:25 < cap10morgan> ok
21:25  * SDuensin is excited - he just ordered a virtual server to put his WebGUI (and other) STUFF ON!  WHOOO!
21:25 <+snapcount> basically if the wf has a problem it becomes priority 0
21:25 <+snapcount> so spectre runs the other stuff and then trys those again
21:26 <+snapcount> set your logging to debug and see if you have errors
21:26 < cap10morgan> ok
21:27 <+snapcount> btw this is just community advice
21:27 <+snapcount> I don't work for pb anymore so this isn't official support
21:27 <+snapcount> just so you know
21:27 < cap10morgan> ok
21:27 < SDuensin> That means we don't have to pay you.  :-)
21:27 < cap10morgan> haha
21:27 <+snapcount> that's one way to look at it =)
21:28 <+snapcount> SDuensin: where did you get your server?
21:29 < SDuensin> LiquidWeb.  I've been using them for some time.  Support is excellent.  (I'd have done PlainBlack, but I need root access and can't afford them - yet!)
21:29 < cap10morgan> one of our domains just added a ton of workflow instances to the queue at priority 20
21:30 <+snapcount> I think that higher number == lower priority
21:30 < SDuensin> snapcount - I just got this:  https://www.liquidweb.com/shared/plan4.htm
21:30 <+snapcount> I never looked at that code after rizen re-wrote it
21:31 <+snapcount> I need to setup a virtual machine in windows... what do you guys recommend?
21:31 <+snapcount> VMWare appears to cost $$$
21:31 <+perlDreamer> installing linux :)
21:31 <+snapcount> and I don't like that
21:31 < cap10morgan> VMWare Server is free
21:32 < cap10morgan> that's what i use
21:32 <+snapcount> My bodybugg doesn't work in Linux
21:32 <+snapcount> so I need windoze
21:32 <+snapcount> and I have the muscle to run a virtual machine pretty snappy
21:32 <+perlDreamer> what's a bodybugg?
21:33 <+snapcount> amazing what 4 sata2 baracuddas in Raid 0 will do for performance
21:33 <+snapcount> it's a "Make yourself un-fat monitor"
21:33 <+snapcount> its an armband that measures the amount of calories you're burning
21:33 <+snapcount> I want to loose 2lbs/week
21:34 <+snapcount> so I need to burn 1000 calories more than I consume each day
21:34 <+snapcount> this tells me how many I'm burning and the food log part of the software tells me how much is going in
21:35 <+snapcount> the software is all web based but uses active x controls so it requires IE
21:35 < perlmonkey2> how does it know how many you are burning?
21:36 <+snapcount> it measures a lot of things like number of steps, heart rate, and the electrical conduction between two points on your skin
21:36 <+snapcount> some how all of that crap into some formula lets them figure it out
21:36 <+snapcount> pretty amazing
21:36 <+snapcount> also your skin temperature I think
21:36 < perlmonkey2> that is amazing.
21:36 <+snapcount> www.bodybugg.com
21:37 < pjesi> snapcount: that is no excuse
21:37 < pjesi> http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Main_Page
21:38 -!- snapcount [n=wgGuest9@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit []
21:38 -!- wgGuest49 [n=wgGuest4@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui
21:38 < pjesi> :P
21:38 < wgGuest49> what the f
21:38 < perlmonkey2> IEs4Linux++
21:39 -!- wgGuest49 is now known as snapcount
21:39 -!- mode/#webgui [+v snapcount] by ChanServ
21:39 <+snapcount> apparently this chat java applet doesn't like it when you minimize the window
21:40 < pjesi> did you see the url?
21:40 <+snapcount> no
21:41 < pjesi> [19:37] <pjesi> http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Main_Page
21:43 <+snapcount> will active x controls work?
21:43 <+snapcount> I think that's how it interfaces with the hardware
21:43 < SDuensin> This is a better URL:   http://goodbye-microsoft.com/
21:43 < SDuensin> :-)
21:44 <+snapcount> that's funny
21:44 < SDuensin> snapcount, just snag VMWare Server.  It works great.
21:44 < SDuensin> Video is slow on the Server edition, but you just minimize it and SSH in anyway.  :-)
21:44 <+snapcount> will that allow you to create the virtual machine?
21:44 < cap10morgan> snapcount: yes
21:44 < SDuensin> Or you could be completely psycho and use CoLinux.
21:44 < SDuensin> Yes.
21:45 <+snapcount> ok that sounds good... vmware server is the free one right
21:45 < SDuensin> BillSoft also gives away VirtualPC now, too.  I prefer VMWare Server though.
21:45 < SDuensin> Yep.  Free.
21:45 <+snapcount> cool
21:45 <+snapcount> It will slow down my WoW download for a bit but I suppose that's acceptable
21:46 < SDuensin> hehehe
21:46 <+snapcount> 3.18 GB
21:46 < SDuensin> You're a digital crack addict.
21:46 <+snapcount> 20% done woo hoo
21:46 <+snapcount> digital crack eh?
21:46 <+snapcount> haven't heard that one yet
21:46 < SDuensin> That reminds me - I need to install CentOS in a VM.
21:46 <+snapcount> but it sound appropriate
21:46 < SDuensin> World of Warcrack?
21:46 <+snapcount> ahh
21:47 <+snapcount> I haven't played in quite a while
21:47 <+snapcount> I'm starting up again
21:47  * snapcount has a relapse
21:47 < SDuensin> It's the newer, more addictive, version of EverCrack.
21:47 <+perlDreamer> Intervention!
21:47  * SDuensin just sticks with IRC.  It's the same, but with lower system requirements.
21:47 <+snapcount> always wanted to be on TV
21:47 <+snapcount> I finally have a system that can play games again
21:47 <+snapcount> so I'm happy
21:48 < SDuensin> I do, too.  Just can't find *time* to play them!
21:50 <+snapcount> ah yes
21:50 <+snapcount> time
21:51 < SDuensin> I bought a GameBoy DS game.  Figured I could play it while on the couch or wherever and maybe get to game a bit.  My two year old has played it more than I have.  (She's watched the intro at least two hundred times.)
21:53 <+snapcount> my Mom hijacked my DS when I visited her last
21:53 <+snapcount> now she has her own
21:53 <+snapcount> thank God
21:53 <+snapcount> she got hooked on Brain Age
21:53 < SDuensin> hehe
21:54 < SDuensin> The game I got was "Hotel Dusk:  215".  What I've seen of it is pretty cool.
21:55 <+snapcount> crap I keep forgetting this is a 64 bit machine
21:55 <+snapcount> I'm constantly downloading the wrong stuff
21:55 < SDuensin> ehe
21:56 < SDuensin> hehe
22:36 -!- bopbop [n=kristi@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui
22:36 -!- bopbop_ [n=kristi@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
23:21 < ckotil> brain age is neat
23:23 -!- snapcount [n=wgGuest4@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
23:24 -!- bopbop [n=kristi@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has left #webgui []
23:26 < SDuensin> Wow, ckotil, you got some lag.  :-P
23:28 < ckotil> heh
23:28  * ckotil blames the 3 beers at lunch
23:28 < ckotil> it acutually just clicked now in my head what brain age was.
23:28 < cap10morgan> so, i have a custom workflow that i wrote that runs fine on my development box
23:28  * ckotil 's brain age is 200
23:29 < SDuensin> hehe
23:29 < cap10morgan> but on my server, it doesn't run
23:29 < cap10morgan> it doesn't spit out any errors or anything in the log
23:29 < cap10morgan> even when i run it manually in the scheduler admin console
23:29 < cap10morgan> any idea what to check?
23:30 < cap10morgan> i have a once every 5 minute schedule for it to run, but it just doesn't
23:30 < ckotil> what does it do?
23:30 < ckotil> what kind of workflow?
23:30 < cap10morgan> it processes "actions"
23:31 < cap10morgan> which are basically dataform submissions
23:31 < cap10morgan> once it's done its work, it marks the datafrom_entry as processed in the db (using a new field)
23:31 < cap10morgan> but that's not happening
23:31 < cap10morgan> i see no evidence anywhere that it's even attempting to run... :/
23:32 < cap10morgan> hahaha
23:33 < cap10morgan> it just ran
23:33 < cap10morgan> finally!
23:33 < cap10morgan> :)
23:33 < ckotil> heh
23:33 < ckotil> so spectre took a while to process it?
23:33 < cap10morgan> wow, it took it like half an hour to run
23:33 < cap10morgan> well, it didn't even attempt to run it until just now
23:33 < ckotil> thats one of my biggest complaints with webgui right now
23:33 < cap10morgan> and then it completed basically instantly
23:34 < cap10morgan> how asynchronous spectre is?
23:35 < ckotil> not sure.
23:35 < ckotil> seems to be quite a bit tho
23:35 < ckotil> otherwise why would jobs take so long to process , or even get into the queue?
23:39 <+perlDreamer> It's very hard to debug spectre problems on dev systems
23:41 <@rizen> pd, i disagree
23:41 <@rizen> spectre has all kinds of debug and testing stuff now
23:41 <+perlDreamer> I should be more clear
23:41 <+perlDreamer> It's hard to replicate some spectre problems on dev systems
23:41 <@rizen> and as for synchronicity problems, it's got to be a config error, or you've found a new bug that no one else has reported
23:41 <+perlDreamer> spectre seems to be very situatinos dependent
23:42 <@rizen> have you guys done: perl spectre.pl --status
23:42 <@rizen> It tells you what's in the queue and how long it's been running
23:42 <@rizen> what the status of each things is as well
23:51 < SDuensin> Ok, heading home.  Later all.
23:51 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@91.sub-75-206-2.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:57 -!- estivenrpo [n=estivenr@200.58.205.236] has joined #webgui
--- Day changed Tue Apr 03 2007
00:32 -!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@ip70-189-104-178.ok.ok.cox.net] has left #webgui []
00:36 -!- rizen_ [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui
00:36 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
00:41 < cap10morgan> spectre.pl --status is pretty interesting
00:42 < cap10morgan> i have a bunch (over 400) waiting workflows, all at priority 20 or 21
00:42 < cap10morgan> the ones at 21 are complete
00:42 < cap10morgan> the ones at 20 are all "never run"
00:42 < rizen_> "complete" means that it successfully ran it's last task
00:42 -!- rizen_ is now known as rizen
00:42 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ
00:46 < cap10morgan> does 400 workflows seem normal for ~10 domains?
00:46 <@rizen> not even close to normal
00:46 < cap10morgan> kinda what i thought...
00:46 < cap10morgan> hmm...
00:46 <@rizen> it does depend on your spectre settings though
00:47 <@rizen> what does your spectre config look like?
00:47 <@rizen> the defaults aren't really adequate for a multi-domain server
00:47 < cap10morgan> ok to paste to channel?
00:47 <@rizen> perlbot paste?
00:47 < perlbot> Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.
00:48 < cap10morgan> http://sial.org/pbot/23951
00:49 <@rizen> wow
00:49 < cap10morgan> i love ~70 domains by the time this is a production server
00:49 <@rizen> i wouldn't set max workers higher than 5
00:49 < cap10morgan> oh, ok
00:50 <@rizen> also, time between workflows should probably be 1 second
00:50 < cap10morgan> ok, changing those
00:51 <@rizen> generally speaking you want the list of running workflows to be empty
00:51 <@rizen> aka zero latency
00:51 < cap10morgan> right
00:53 <@rizen> for example: http://sial.org/pbot/23952
00:53 <@rizen> this particular box has 90 sites running on it
00:54 <@rizen> the only ones sitting in the queue are ones that are waiting for approval
00:54 < cap10morgan> is priority 20 the lowest priority?
00:54 <@rizen> nope
00:54 <@rizen> well wait
00:54 <@rizen> by lowest do you mean "least"
00:54 <@rizen> the priorities are 0, 10, and 20
00:54 <@rizen> the starting
00:55 <@rizen> something with a priority of 0 will be run immedietly
00:55 < cap10morgan> ok
00:55 < cap10morgan> gotcha
00:55 <@rizen> as things are executed, their priority will increase
00:55 < cap10morgan> alright, my queue is steadily declining now
00:55 <@rizen> you may see something like 243/20 as a priority
00:56 <@rizen> meaning that it has executed 223 times
00:56 <@rizen> and started at 20
00:56 < cap10morgan> oh, ok
00:56 <@rizen> generally, anything running that long is going to be problematic
00:56 < cap10morgan> right, makes sense
00:56 <@rizen> everything that comes with webgui will fully complete withing 5-15 executions
01:04 < cap10morgan> thanks rizen, that's working much more smoothly now
01:04 <@rizen> glad to hear it
01:05 <@rizen> incidentally there's a lot of info about spectre included in the upcoming "WebGUI Administrators Guide" book that i'm writing
01:05 <@rizen> you should check it out
01:05 <@rizen> it should be out mid may
01:05 < cap10morgan> oh, cool
01:06 -!- Netsplit leguin.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: Hinrik, +perlDreamer, cap10morgan, ckotil, perlbot, @vayde, nuba, pjesi, @rizen, @preaction,  (+3 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
01:07 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @vayde, Hinrik, |thunder, pjesi, @preaction, +Radix_
01:07 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @rizen
01:07 -!- Netsplit over, joins: cap10morgan, besonen_mobile, ckotil, perlbot, nuba
01:07 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []
01:07 -!- Netsplit over, joins: +perlDreamer
01:09 < cap10morgan> well that was fun
01:09 <+perlDreamer> vayde, you want to talk tests?
01:10 <+perlDreamer> cap10morgan: indeed.  at least it was short
01:10 < cap10morgan> :)
01:10 <@vayde> sure, let's talk tests
01:10 <+perlDreamer> We'll do the email one first, it's the easiest.
01:11 <+perlDreamer> 1) Grab a copy of my wG testing talk from http://www.sunsetpres.org/web/webgui
01:11 <+perlDreamer> 2)Skim it (10-15 minutes tops)
01:11 <+perlDreamer> 3) Holler back
01:11 <@vayde> will do
01:14 <@vayde> Woah, pD.  I just looked at the clock.  I have to teach shortly.  I'll read it and check back with you either later tonight if you're around or tomorrow
01:15 <+perlDreamer> no problem
01:15 <+perlDreamer> hack on, it whatever medium you need to
01:17 -!- estivenrpo [n=estivenr@200.58.205.236] has left #webgui []
01:17 -!- estivenrpo [n=estivenr@200.58.205.236] has joined #webgui
01:21 -!- estivenrpo [n=estivenr@200.58.205.236] has quit []
01:59 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI
02:19 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-3.adsl.indra.com] has quit []
02:20 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-3.adsl.indra.com] has joined #webgui
02:51 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]
03:25 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-3.adsl.indra.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
--- Log closed Tue Apr 03 03:58:51 2007
--- Log opened Tue Apr 03 12:58:56 2007
12:58 -!- xdanger [i=xdanger@i.should.be.in.a.mentalhouse.net] has joined #webgui
12:58 -!- Irssi: #webgui: Total of 12 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 1 voices, 11 normal]
12:58 -!- Irssi: Join to #webgui was synced in 3 secs
13:18 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui
13:23 -!- Hinrik_ [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
14:08 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
15:57 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@52.sub-75-207-10.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI
15:57 < SDuensin> Blargh.  Morning.
15:59 < AMH_bob> Goodmorning
16:04 < SDuensin> Hey AMH_bob 
16:04  * SDuensin is already having a bad day.  :-(
16:05 < SDuensin> You'd think a company the size of Apple would be able to pay their bills.
16:06  * SDuensin has the worst luck getting paid for his work.  <sigh>
16:19 < AMH_bob> They make pretty good stuff, that's all I know!
16:21  * SDuensin is on a MacBook Pro right now.  :-)
16:24 < AMH_bob> would like to be on a MacBook Pro right now :P
16:25 < AMH_bob> I'm in The Netherlands, it seems that this channel gets busy when I head off to home ... :(
16:25 < AMH_bob> its 3:24 pm here 
16:32 < AMH_bob> I'm crash coursing wobjects now... it is starting to make sence
16:32 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@wlan-145-94-246-128.wlan.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui
16:32 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ
16:35 < SDuensin> Cool, AMH_bob - I get to learn that yet.  
16:35 < SDuensin> I *almost* had it figured out in the 5.x series.  Then I went away for a bit.  :-)
16:35 < SDuensin> Hey MrHairgrease 
16:37 <+MrHairgrease> hi
16:38 -!- MrHairgrease is now known as MrAfkGrease
16:45 -!- MrAfkGrease is now known as MrHairgrease
16:55 -!- vayde [n=vayde@209.134.142.196] has joined #webgui
16:55 -!- mode/#webgui [+o vayde] by ChanServ
17:44 -!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@casr-dev.fwsm2ppuser.ou.edu] has joined #webgui
18:03 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
18:03 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #webgui
18:03 < cga> ciao a tutti =)
18:04 < cga> ohps sorry
18:04 <+MrHairgrease> hi
18:14 -!- AMH_bob [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
18:33 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has joined #webgui
18:33 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ
18:47 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@wlan-145-94-246-128.wlan.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui []
19:16 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui
19:16 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ
19:21 <+perlDreamer> MrHairGrease: Do you know if there's a EuroWUC this year?
19:22 <+MrHairgrease> While I am not certain
19:22 <+MrHairgrease> I think no
19:22 <+MrHairgrease> It there is, I would've prolly heard about it
19:22 <+perlDreamer> okay, thanks
19:23 <+MrHairgrease> that is, if oit wer to be in NL
19:23 <+perlDreamer> well, you are well connected in the Euro wG community
19:23 <+MrHairgrease> only in the dutch incrowd
19:23 <+MrHairgrease> most of the other euro guys i have never seen
21:01 -!- dgm [n=dgm@24-119-133-72.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #webgui
21:02 < dgm> trying to install webgui from source....  and I have to say... the instructions are severly lacking.  
21:02 < perlmonkey2> How long would it take to port WebGUI to use Moose?  I've already tested Moose with Poe with no issues.
21:03 < perlmonkey2> Although I don't start the Poe event loop until the Moose post-constructor BUILD call.
21:03 < SDuensin> Moose?
21:04 < perlmonkey2> Moose is Perl6 OO in Perl5
21:04 < SDuensin> Ah.
21:04 < SDuensin> dgm - you mean the WRE?
21:05 < dgm> no, the source
21:05 < perlmonkey2> yes, rewrite all of the source in Moose.  
21:06 < SDuensin> Source of WebGUI?  Or compile the WRE from source?
21:06 <+perlDreamer> installing wG from source couldn't take more than 15-30 minutes, with most of that being downloading and installing perl modules from CPAN
21:06 < dgm> webgui source
21:06 < dgm> on ubunto 6.06
21:06 < dgm> cpan modules wouldn't all install
21:06 <+perlDreamer> which ones?
21:07 < SDuensin> Why not use the WRE for Ubuntu?
21:08 < dgm> I already have other apahce websites....  doesn't the WRE supply another apache?
21:08 < SDuensin> Two more, in fact.  :-)
21:08 < perlmonkey2> dgm, I originally thought the documentation was lacking, because I didn't have a lot of modules installed.  The real problem was the documentation was too thorough and I had skimmed a lot of it, missing crucial steps.  Everything I had to do to get WebGui source running on brand new Fedora boxes was in the documentation.
21:09 < dgm> the cpan stuff should be earlier
21:10 < dgm> the instructions show the apache config before showing the cpan stuff, but some perl stuff needs to be installed before the web server is restarted
21:11 < dgm> gah.   I have to give up for today... 3 hours is too much
21:12 -!- dgm [n=dgm@24-119-133-72.cpe.cableone.net] has left #webgui []
21:12 < SDuensin> He was fun.
21:12 <+perlDreamer> yes, but too bad he wouldn't give more details
21:12 <+perlDreamer> dgm is a PHP/perl/rails dev
21:12 < SDuensin> Ah
21:13 <+perlDreamer> perlmonkey2: it would be a big task to rewrite everything in Moose.
21:13  * SDuensin is a whatever-the-source-is-in dev.
21:14 < perlmonkey2> perlDreamer: probably makes more sense to wait until Perl6 is production worthy?
21:14 <+perlDreamer> rizen would like to move to p6 when that happens
21:15 <+perlDreamer> It would be nice (very nice) to have the power of p6 today, but don't you think it would be much slower than regular old p5?
21:15 < perlmonkey2> I've signed up to the pugs project, but haven't had time to contibute :(
21:15 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI can always use more perl hackers
21:15 < perlmonkey2> Slower?  Definetely.  Noticeably?  Probably not.
21:16 <+perlDreamer> are there any Moose benchmarks out there for comparison?
21:16  * perlmonkey2 would love to be a full time Perl project hacker.
21:18 <+perlDreamer> I found a little info in Moose::Cookbook::FAQ
21:19 <+perlDreamer> the big risk in such a big rewrite is that there's no wG-wide test suite to back you up.
21:20 < perlmonkey2> yes, it wasn't a very well thought out idea.  But irc is perfect for those :P
21:20 < perlmonkey2> Plus, since p6 is ontrack for xmas2007, the rewrite would just be wrapped up when p6 design work would need to be started.
21:21 <+perlDreamer> maybe we should flesh out wG's test suite to make such ideas easier to implement?
21:21 < perlmonkey2> And the p6 rewrite will be magnitudes more fun.
21:22 < perlmonkey2> With threading functional and working, I wonder if POE will be necessary anymore?
21:22 <+perlDreamer> p6 has been on track for xmas 2\d\d\d for a long time
21:23 < perlmonkey2> #perl6 is very assuring on this issue.
21:26  * perlmonkey2 gets a little sick to his stomach thinking about a redesign of WebGui that would not entail using POE.
21:27  * perlDreamer heads off to lunch. bbl
21:31 < SDuensin> WTF is POE anyway?  All I know is that I updated it.  :-)
21:32 < ckotil> http://poe.perl.org/?POE_Components_List
21:34 < perlmonkey2> POE is a psuedo operating system/event handler.
21:35 < SDuensin> ah
21:37 < SDuensin> Man, there's POE crap for everything.  :-)
21:39 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui
21:39 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ
21:43 < perlmonkey2> yes, POE is like butta
22:08 -!- rbroen [n=chatzill@cp47104-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has joined #webgui
22:08 -!- rbroen is now known as AHM_Bob
22:13 -!- AHM_Bob [n=chatzill@cp47104-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has left #webgui []
22:14 -!- AHM_Bob [n=chatzill@cp47104-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has joined #webgui
22:15 -!- AHM_Bob is now known as AMH_bob
22:58 <+perlDreamer> vayde, want to talk tests?
22:59 <@vayde> I'd love to, but I have to squash something for JT first
22:59 < SDuensin> He's scared of spiders, eh?
22:59 <@vayde> gimme a few to puzzle over it, maybe you can explain it to me
23:00 <@vayde> call me the Orkin man...  Nik Bash Bugs!
23:01 <+perlDreamer> are we going to release tomorrow?
23:04 <@vayde> I don't know.  I'm pretty low on the totem pole
23:18 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
23:43 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@52.sub-75-207-10.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:47 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui
23:55 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["90% of the problems that people have with GNU/Linux are to impute to Windows."]
--- Day changed Wed Apr 04 2007
00:28 <@preaction> god i remember saying that same thing a few months ago
00:36 <@vayde> ahh, the good old days  eh?
00:37 <@vayde> now you're the 'elder brother' as we would say in kung fu
01:12 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui []
01:18 <@preaction> of course, kohai
01:20 <@vayde> wrong country round eye.  To me you're 'sihing'.
01:20 <@preaction> that's racist, dog
01:20 <@preaction> they're not round, they're more droopy
01:23 <@vayde> Hey, as a Japanese/Swedish/Scot I reserve the right to use 'round eye' any time I want.  Don't make me serve you raw lutefisk while wearing a kilt!
01:24 <@preaction> Japanese/Swedish/Scot who teaches Chinese martial art?
01:24  * preaction braces for "wrong country, <insert racist term>"
01:24 <@vayde> Yup.  My great-great-great grandfather was samurai, and I only do chinese martial arts.  My family is very disappointed
01:25 <@preaction> i'd break out the "slope", but i'm white, so therefore I cannot play with racism.
01:26 <@preaction> yeah, i'd say so. how long did Japan have to defend itself against Chinese/Mandarin tyrants?
01:27 <@vayde> At least twice, but other than the Mongols, I don't really remember.
01:27 <@vayde> I'm more familiar with the times it wen't the other way
01:30 <@preaction> the evil japanese imperialists? I remember one, and vaguely remember that another one might've been a factor in a mongol occupation before the mongols established a dynasty. but i'm probably just admitting my own ignorance
01:31 <@vayde> I have a weapon style/form that was specifically tailored to fight the japanese katana. 
01:32 <@vayde> I'm not much of an historian, really.  I just hit stuff.
02:09 <@vayde> Is there a support/hosting price list somewhere?
02:12 <+perlDreamer> https://www.plainblack.com/store/services
02:18 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: PBstore is https://www.plainblack.com/store/services
02:18 < perlbot> added PBstore to the database
02:18 <@vayde> duh.  found it
02:24 <+Radix_> mornin'
02:25 <+Radix_> I'm winning on the ACME contest so far.. of course noone else has voted and I voted for myself, but hey..
02:25 <+Radix_> ;)
02:35 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]
02:53 -!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@casr-dev.fwsm2ppuser.ou.edu] has left #webgui []
02:55 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@177.sub-75-206-140.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI
03:06 -!- Hinrik_ [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui
03:19 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
04:00 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui
04:00 -!- mode/#webgui [+v Radix-wrk] by ChanServ
05:12 -!- Radix-work [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui
05:12 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
05:21 -!- Radix-work [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
05:58 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui
05:59  * PedersenMJ wavers.
06:05 -!- vayde [n=vayde@209.134.142.196] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
06:17 < pjesi> \o
06:18 < pjesi> PedersenMJ: how many styles do you plan to submit to the contest? :-)
06:18 < PedersenMJ> I still thought it had to be all original? And, though I can convert without problem, making a new one? I suck.
06:23 < pjesi> it has been changed?
06:23 < pjesi> I think
06:23 < pjesi> you can convert open source templates
06:25 < PedersenMJ> Ah, cool. In that case, I might have time to convert a good three or four of them :)
06:25 < pjesi> nice!
06:25 < pjesi> I was hoping I can find the time for one!
06:26 < PedersenMJ> Hey, they're pretty easy. Just go down the tutorial I wrote, working on any given theme. Shouldn't take but 3 to 4 hours, depending on complexity.
06:26 < PedersenMJ> Some could take longer, sure, but they're pretty easy overall.
06:26 < pjesi> PedersenMJ: yeah I know how to make them, but just really busy
06:27 < pjesi> for instance I am pulling an "allnighter" as we speak
06:27 < PedersenMJ> Ah, ditto. Still, it's a chance for another $250, so I can make some time.
06:27 < pjesi> :)
06:27 < PedersenMJ> Just got home from work half an hour ago myself (it's now 11:30pm).
06:27 < pjesi> Im doing final assignments for a msc course
06:28 < pjesi> I have written more code in the last three week then the entire year 2006
06:28 < pjesi> weeks*
06:28 < PedersenMJ> Well, if it was for you, rather than for a course, I'd say congrats on these 3 weeks.
06:28 < pjesi> it is 4:28 over here 
06:28 < pjesi> :)
06:29 < pjesi> Im just really tired, have to submit at noon
06:29 < PedersenMJ> That's never any fun.
06:30 < pjesi> but I learned a lot on these three weeks, so I dont regret it
06:34 < pjesi> but it would be nice to do some fun work that does not require much "brains" like converting a style :)
06:34 < PedersenMJ> Heh. I'm working on finishing a python app of mine before I allow myself some of the fun stuff.
06:36 < PedersenMJ> Wonder if it could be done for perl, actually? It's a three piece tool for python scripts.
06:36 < PedersenMJ> 1) Run a compile process over all files.
06:37 < PedersenMJ> 2) Run a documentation checker, making sure that all docs are written, properly tagged, etc
06:37 < PedersenMJ> 3) Run a unit test coverage checker, which makes sure that every method has a unit test, and that the test actually calls the method
06:37 < PedersenMJ> (woops, 4 parts) 4) Run the unit tests
06:39 < PedersenMJ> I don't doubt it could be done in/for perl, but I have no idea how I'd go about it.
06:43 < pjesi> python is cool
06:44 < pjesi> the web frameworks look really promising
06:44 < PedersenMJ> Can be, sure. I dunno. I'm using it because it's the best tool for the job I've got in mind, but I can't honestly say I really like it. Sorry, but the mandatory whitespace thing really bugs me.
06:46 < PedersenMJ> Okay, this one made me LOL: http://www.bash.org/?258104
06:46 < pjesi> I dont mind it
06:47 < pjesi> hehe
07:02 < PedersenMJ> Yeowch. Here's one I'd not soon try on *any* machine I cared about (unless it was Windows... wait, I did say cared abotu, which eliminates Windows anyway): http://www.bash.org/?96164
07:02 <@preaction> roflrofl
07:04 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui
07:05 < PedersenMJ> Shh! he's back!
07:05 <@preaction> don't say that, now he knows!
07:06 < PedersenMJ> Damn! Hinrik, please log out, log back in again, and pretend you haven't seen anything, okay?
07:18 -!- Hinrik_ [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
07:18 < PedersenMJ> Video that you need to see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFpp1zRrDfg
07:18 < PedersenMJ> Well, will enjoy seeing, if you like flight.
07:30 < pjesi> what did I miss? :s
07:30 < pjesi> Hinrik: you better upload pictures of the kitten real soon, I want to see the soldier
07:32 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has quit []
08:30 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui
08:30 -!- mode/#webgui [+v Radix-wrk] by ChanServ
08:31 -!- AMH_bob [n=chatzill@cp47104-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
08:37 < Hinrik> talking about me eh...
08:43 < Hinrik> pjesi: here you go
08:43 < Hinrik> http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/2674/kitty1fu1.jpg
08:43 < Hinrik> http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/8739/kitty2tf5.jpg
08:43 < Hinrik> http://img482.imageshack.us/img482/1848/kitty3hl1.jpg
08:43 < Hinrik> http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/7666/kitty4ra3.jpg
08:43 < Hinrik> http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/8611/kitty5fq2.jpg
08:43 < Hinrik> http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1086/kitty6xm7.jpg
08:44 < Hinrik> excuse the toes
08:48 <@preaction> KITTIES
08:48 <@preaction> ooh, he's a teenager and he's all gangly and CUUUUUTE
08:48 <@preaction> oh.. it was just that one pichar he looked gangly
08:57 < pjesi> pie
08:59 < Hinrik> she
09:37 -!- AMH_bob [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui
10:07 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui
10:19 <@preaction> i hate learning that my assumptions were wrong and having to undo 4 hours of work at 2:00 in the morning...
10:19  * preaction goes to bed instead
10:25 <+Radix-wrk> heh
10:26 <@preaction> and my gf wonders why i'm gaining weight... no time to do anything but sit here with a computer on my lap...
10:26  * preaction stops whining
10:26 <+Radix-wrk> I had a similar ordeal today
10:26 <@preaction> eventually, i mean
10:26 <@preaction> yum
10:26 <+Radix-wrk> assumptions are killers
10:27 <@preaction> one of those "I want to build an EMP so that every computer will die and we'll have to use tech manuals to build our technology back up to current level over a slow period of a few decades"?
10:28 <+Radix-wrk> heh
10:28 <+Radix-wrk> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18099897
10:29 <+Radix-wrk> did I post that one in here?
10:30 <@preaction> not that i know of
10:32 <@preaction> 3 minutes into it and ... wow...
10:33 <+Radix-wrk> yeah
10:34 <@preaction> of course, all he had to do was say "hold the power button for 6 seconds"
10:34 <+Radix-wrk> personally I think both are idiots.. the dell tech was obviously following protocol by asking for his basic questions.. knowing that if he didn't get them up front the guy would hang up
10:34 <@preaction> i hate level 1 techs
10:35 <+Radix-wrk> that said, he could have told the guy this up front so the guy didn't go on and on
10:35 <+Radix-wrk> but obviously the second guy is an idiot also who just likes the sound of his own voice and likes to yell and abuse.
10:36 <@preaction> i dunno man, after an hour screwing around with those automated systems, i want to kill people too
10:37 <@preaction> that added to the "it's so simple I'm stupid for not figuring it out" embarassment of how to turn the thing Off
10:37 <@preaction> after the first bit of yelling, i'd deviate from script and say "hold the power button down for a few seconds"
10:40 <@preaction> and now i'm reading this thread and i'm wondering why more people do NOT yell at the tech support people...
10:40 <@preaction> their bosses seem to think that support is just a waste of money. a "120 second handle time", what if it's actually a real PROBLEM?
10:44 <+Radix-wrk> yup, which is why i said both are idiots
10:53 <@preaction> http://customerssuck.com <- some hilarity here
11:14 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
11:14 -!- AMH_bob [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
11:17 -!- AMH_bob [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui
11:33 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui
11:55 <@preaction> has anyone seen ubuntu's launchpad recently? https://launchpad.net
11:55 <@preaction> wonder if the new webgui.org site could do things as straightforward as this
12:02 <+Radix-wrk> it's very nice
12:02 <@preaction> screw that, it's amazing
12:03 <@preaction> RFE for built-in bug tracking to the project manager perhaps?
12:03 <@preaction> plainblack is just using a CS right now
12:04 <@preaction> built-in release tracking too maybe? mark bugs for certain releases and then the release can have a percentage done
12:08 <@preaction> mark RFEs as well, put them in the same system (being able to choose between "RFE", "Minor", "Major", "Critical" or "Fatal")
12:21 <+Radix-wrk> hehe.. I want to download it and install it on a server here to manage our own projects.. wish we could!
12:21 <+Radix-wrk> anyways.. hometime now.. adios
12:21 <@preaction> cya
12:22 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"]
13:28 <+Radix_> I should prolly write this up in the wiki sometime I guess - http://www.plainblack.com/web_design_templates_and_themes/newbie-how-to-set-navigation-for-different-areas-of-the-site
13:30 <@preaction> snippets are cached, so the slowdown with assetproxy calls is minimal compared to the time it saves you. processor time is less expensive than programmer time (which i try to convince my bosses of every time they tell me to optimize before implementation)
13:31  * preaction remembers that the channel is listening and there are logs...
13:31 <@preaction> but yes, that would make a bully wiki article
13:33 <+Radix_> "The awesome power of snippets and assetproxy - or how to make your site more dynamic than ever"
13:49 <+Radix_> http://www.biggercheese.com/comics/0332.png
13:50 <@preaction> they h4x0r3d t3h g1b50n!
14:08 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@177.sub-75-206-140.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
15:53 < ckotil> If you have a workflow w/ object type WebGUI::VersionTag , can you create a scheduled event to execute a workflow w/ object type WebGUI::User without getting errors?
15:57 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@211.sub-75-206-158.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI
15:58 < SDuensin> Good morning.
15:58 <@preaction> ckotil: iirc versiontag and user workflows don't work under the scheduler (since they require objects)
15:58 < ckotil> I see
15:58 < ckotil> that makes sense
15:59 < ckotil> Can I safely delete the workflow from the WorkflowInstance table?
16:01 <@preaction> maybe, maybe not
16:02 <@preaction> i personally haven't had any major problems removing things from the WorkflowInstance table, and you might want to go remove things from WorkflowInstanceScratch too, but ymmv
16:02 < ckotil> the bulk of the workflow ran fine, its just this last activity in the workflow that is getting hung up bc its a create scheduled event w/ WebGUI::User
16:03 < ckotil> yah. ive done it in the past, and nothing got screwed up
16:05 < ckotil> I had this workflow creating a scheduled event to send an email notifying users that there is a pending version tag needing to be approved
16:05 < ckotil> it just occured to me i can pull this off with this activity i have that lets me send an personilzed email message to any email address
16:43 -!- vayde [n=vayde@209.134.142.196] has joined #webgui
16:43 -!- mode/#webgui [+o vayde] by ChanServ
16:43 -!- bopbop [n=kmccombs@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui
16:44 -!- mode/#webgui [+o bopbop] by ChanServ
17:16 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@wlan-145-94-244-178.wlan.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui
17:16 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ
17:28 < ckotil> i think i found a bad bug 
17:28 < ckotil> w/ editing file assets.
17:29 < ckotil> when you click save, the file gets downlaoded and an warning is thrown
17:29 < ckotil>  WARN - globalnoc.webgui.conf - main::[[undef]] - Couldn't call method editSave on asset for url:
17:29 < ckotil> Root cause: Can't call method "setPrivileges" on an undefined value at /gnoc/globalnoc/htdocs/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/File.pm line 251.
17:29 <@vayde> ugh
17:30 < ckotil> im about to revert to a backup
17:30 < ckotil> bc i have to be able to have users edit file assets
17:30 <@vayde> when did that start?
17:30 < ckotil> today
17:30 <@vayde> which version?
17:30 < ckotil> i upgraded yesterday
17:31 < ckotil> 7.3.13
17:32 <@vayde> write it up so we have a record of it in the system, and I'll jump on it right away
17:32 < ckotil> submitting a post to the PB Support forum
17:32 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui
17:32 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ
17:35 < ckotil> http://www.plainblack.com/plain_black_support/wierd-behavior-when-editing-file-asset
17:35 <@rizen> why are you giving me that url?
17:39 < ckotil> habbit
17:39 < ckotil> sorry
17:46 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@wlan-145-94-244-178.wlan.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui []
18:06 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"]
18:09 -!- AMH_bob [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
18:16 -!- AMH_bob [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui
18:51 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
18:51 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has joined #webgui
18:51 -!- mode/#webgui [+v Radix_] by ChanServ
19:03 < ckotil> thanks jt
19:04 <@rizen> np
19:32 -!- AMH_bob [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20:23 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has joined #webgui
20:23 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ
20:27 <+perlDreamer> bunches and bunches of PB people today
20:27 <+perlDreamer> hello PB people!
20:28 <@preaction> hello perlDearest
20:40 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui
20:40 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ
20:55 <@rizen> preaction......your wording scares me sometimes
20:55 <@preaction> "wording"?
20:55 <@rizen> perlDearest
20:56 <@rizen> and i remember one time you saying something like "yes JT sweetums" or something like that to me
20:56 <@preaction> it's a good gauge of my mood: the more eloquent the speech, the more embarassed or ashamed or... oh, you're talking about THAT
20:56 <@preaction> that's just good ol fashioned fun!
20:56 <+MrHairgrease> what's wrong with that sweetums?
20:56 <@preaction> yeah, pookie-pie?
20:57  * preaction might have just gone too far
20:57 <+MrHairgrease> nah
20:57 <+MrHairgrease> you have to call jt my little p[onie for that
20:57 <+MrHairgrease> or
20:57 <@preaction> is that a reference to Plone? one of the Axis of Evil?
20:57 <+MrHairgrease> maybe carebear\
20:58 <@rizen> i hate you guys
20:58 <+MrHairgrease> fyr!
20:58 <+MrHairgrease> i can't belive that you liked the bofh macro better than the l33tout
20:58 <@preaction> MrHairgrease: i wasn't able to get the l33tout to work :'(
20:59 <+MrHairgrease> what?
20:59 <+MrHairgrease> what went wrong
20:59 <@rizen> and l33tout is a remake, where bofh is brand new
20:59 <+MrHairgrease> i didn't say so in the rules
20:59 <+MrHairgrease> but then again
20:59 <@preaction> couldn't call method "get" on an undefined value at line something, i can dig it up hang on
20:59 <+MrHairgrease> i do not care that much
20:59 <+MrHairgrease> oh
20:59 <+MrHairgrease> weird
21:00 <@rizen> there's nothing saying you can't do a remake...just that i prefer new stuff to a remake
21:00 <+MrHairgrease> file a bug report =)
21:00 <+MrHairgrease> ok
21:00 <+MrHairgrease> fair enough
21:00 <@rizen> also...bofh gives you something new an hillarious everytime
21:00 <+MrHairgrease> try explain that to marijn
21:01 <+perlDreamer> so who is marijn?
21:01 <+perlDreamer> you were going to tell us about her last week but were suffering
21:01 <+perlDreamer> from EBC
21:01 <+MrHairgrease> a girl who like ultrahip eurothrash with sex appeal
21:01 <+perlDreamer> can she hack?
21:01 <+MrHairgrease> no
21:01 <+MrHairgrease> but she can drink
21:01 <+MrHairgrease> which is a virtue in itself
21:01 <+perlDreamer> 1/2 isn't bad!
21:01 <+MrHairgrease> right?
21:02 <@rizen> i'm not certain why she likes ultruhip eurotrash though
21:02 <@preaction> can she outdrink a german?
21:02 <+perlDreamer> it's the sex appeal
21:02 <@preaction> no, can she outdrink an Irishman?
21:02 <+perlDreamer> well, bring her to Wisconsin in October
21:02 <+perlDreamer> we'll teach her perl
21:02 <@preaction> we can test the german one then
21:03 <+MrHairgrease> ok pd
21:03 <+MrHairgrease> you get joeri to ay expenses for marijn
21:03 <+MrHairgrease> and i might bvring her
21:03 <+MrHairgrease> actually
21:03 <+perlDreamer> she's part of your staff
21:03 <+perlDreamer> required for travel
21:03 <+perlDreamer> it's not an option
21:03 <+MrHairgrease> there's a picture of her in the spot gooey section
21:03 <+MrHairgrease> no staff!
21:04 <+MrHairgrease> i don't have any staff
21:04 <+MrHairgrease> being a minion muself
21:04 <+perlDreamer> who is going to check your flights, handle appointments, speaking engagements and the autograph event?
21:04 <+MrHairgrease> joeri is
21:04 <+MrHairgrease> but he also pays my bills
21:04 <+MrHairgrease> oh
21:04 <+MrHairgrease> diners ready
21:04 -!- MrHairgrease is now known as MrFoodGrease
21:34 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit []
21:40 <+perlDreamer> w00t! release.
21:40 < ckotil> hrm, i cant seem to recall wehre the code is that will prevent me from uploading an htm file. automatically turns it into a txt
21:40 -!- rizen changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.3.14 | WRE 0.7.2 ][ New Contest Open -- Acme Code Contribution -- Win $$$ and Karma (www.plainblack.com/wcc) ]
21:42 <+perlDreamer> Storage.pm
21:42 < ckotil> thx p
21:42 < ckotil> d
21:43 <+perlDreamer> ckotil: btw, I haven't had a chance to look at your workflow bug.  It may be a while, so if you'd like someone else to look at it it's fine by me.
21:44 < ckotil> no problem.
21:44 < ckotil> none of the bugs seem to be urgently requiring attention
21:52 -!- rizen changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.3.14 | WRE 0.7.2 ][ New Contest: Theme Design -- Win $$$ and Karma (www.plainblack.com/wcc) ]
22:03 -!- MrFoodGrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui []
22:28  * SDuensin has been busy as crap today.
22:31  * pjesi has not slept for 37 hours
22:35 < SDuensin> I slept, but I don't know if it did any good.
22:35  * ckotil bites
22:35 < ckotil> why?
22:44 < pjesi> three deadlines at noon
22:44 < ckotil> thats hardcore
22:45 < pjesi> yeah I should know
22:48 < SDuensin> Been there, done that.  You can keep it.
22:49 < pjesi> I dont want to be rude and sit on it alone
22:49 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []
22:57 <@vayde> Hey pD!  Im in the club!  I just broke a couple pb servers!
22:57  * SDuensin cheers!
22:58 <@vayde> well, I didn't totally break them, it was just a flesh wound...
23:00 < pjesi> Hinrik once did rm -r mysql in wre on a site launch day, that was a good day
23:00 < pjesi> :)
23:00 < Hinrik> yes
23:01 <@vayde> I'm still in the bush leagues I guess.  I think I already fixed what I did.  Hafta try harder next time I guess
23:04 < ckotil> heh
23:38 <+perlDreamer> how did you do it, vayde?
23:38 <+perlDreamer> share your pain....
23:38 <@vayde> Oh, no biggie, really, I just screwed up how the CS mail handler works.
23:39 <@vayde> It should be fixed now, but of course, now that I'm waiting for the email to circulate, they are g o i n g  v e r y  s l o w l y
23:39 <+perlDreamer> that's a pretty good one.  Broke all notifications and subscriptions for forums.
23:39 <+perlDreamer> that's at least a 7
23:40 <@vayde> wow, and it only took 3 or 4 lines
23:40 <@vayde> gifted I guess
23:41 <@vayde> actually, come to think of it, I've been claiming my real talent to be in the field of destruction for years now
23:42 <+perlDreamer> analyze your enemies weaknesses and use them to defeat him?  Or is that the wrong philosophy?
23:43 <@vayde> close.  
23:43 <@vayde> Actually the art of war says that being invulnerable lies with you, but being vulnerable lies with the enemy
23:43 <@vayde> therefore great warriors made themselves invulnerable, and then awaited the moment when the enemy could be defeated
23:43 <@vayde> all I can really do is make myself invulnerable.  
23:44 <@vayde> you are responsible for leaving an opening.  all I do is use it when you present it
23:45 -!- bopbop [n=kmccombs@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has left #webgui []
23:48 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@211.sub-75-206-158.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
--- Day changed Thu Apr 05 2007
00:11 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui
00:11 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ
00:12 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit]
00:59 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui
00:59 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ
01:08 -!- |thunder [n=e@c-68-60-143-198.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
02:33 <+Radix_> I love deadlines
02:33 <+Radix_> I especially like the wooshing sound they make when they go past.
02:38 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]
03:18 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui
03:18 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ
03:33 < nuba> Radix_: thats a classic line :)
03:50 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
03:50 -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ
03:50 <+crythias> hrm
03:50 <+crythias> ch-ch-ch-changes
03:53 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui
03:53 -!- mode/#webgui [+v Radix-wrk] by ChanServ
03:53 <+crythias> Jesse!
03:54 <+crythias> Hiya, Radix-wek
03:54 <+crythias> erm. Radix-wrk
03:54 <+Radix-wrk> Hiya
03:54 <+Radix-wrk> Just got into the office :)
03:55 <+crythias> Ah. :) 
03:55 <+Radix-wrk> last day of work before a nice long easter weekend :)
03:55 <+crythias> likewise
03:55 <+crythias> actually, I'll be taking off Thursday :)
03:56 <+crythias> So, Roy's gone, hmm?
03:56 <+Radix-wrk> gone?
03:57 <+crythias> Apparently, no longer staff @plainblack...
03:57 <+Radix-wrk> Ahh.. i see
03:58 <+crythias> CTS.. speaking of /topic...
03:59 <+crythias> http://crythias.blogspot.com/2007/04/from-picture-choose-color-scheme.html
04:00 <+Radix-wrk> cool idea
04:03 -!- vayde [n=vayde@209.134.142.196] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
04:13 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI
04:23 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui
04:24 < PedersenMJ> good evening
04:25 < SDuensin> Hey PedersenMJ 
04:25 < PedersenMJ> How's it going?
04:26 < SDuensin> Other than I'm sick as a dog, not bad.  :-)
04:26 <@preaction> that's not good
04:27 <@preaction> in fact, i would go so far as to call that abd
04:28 < PedersenMJ> Meh, I dunno. I've known some sick dogs, and more often than not, it just turns out they need some simple meds, and they're fine.
04:28 < PedersenMJ> Of course, the whole neutering thing sucks.
04:28 <@preaction> whoa, this conversation took a very bad turn
04:29 < SDuensin> hehehe
04:30 < PedersenMJ> Well, whatever you do, don't get sick as a dog. Lest somebody decide you should be neutered.
04:30 <+crythias> ugh
04:32 <+Radix-wrk> Umm.. yeah
04:32 <+Radix-wrk> Hi Ped
04:33 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has joined #webgui
04:33 -!- mode/#webgui [+o vayde] by ChanServ
04:33 < PedersenMJ> Hey, Radix. You're not that sick, are you?
04:33 <+Radix-wrk> I'm pretty sick.. but physically I'm just fine.
04:33 <@preaction> take them both out back and shoot them?
04:34 < PedersenMJ> Nah, that's for horses.
04:34 <@preaction> *sniff* they were the best devs a guy could want
04:34  * SDuensin is, that's true.
04:34 < SDuensin> :-P
04:35 <+Radix-wrk> I think you're all pretty sick.
04:36 <@vayde> wouldn't be here if we weren't
04:36 < PedersenMJ> Uh-uh. Definitely not sick. Not with chats of neutering and shooting going on.
04:36 <@vayde> or maybe, we wouldn't feel comfortable here if we weren't sick
04:36 <@vayde> Jeez, you guys have all the interesting chats after I log off
04:37 <+Radix-wrk> PedersenMJ, you're the only one obsessed with neutering I think ;)
04:37 < PedersenMJ> Hey, it was SDuension who said he was sick as a dog.
04:38 <@preaction> a simple figure of speech turns into a bloodbath of neutering and euthenasia
04:39 <+Radix-wrk> hence why I think you're all pretty sick.. in the head. ;)
04:39 <+Radix-wrk> Have you guys ever heard the term "fully sik"?
04:40 <@preaction> i've not not heard of it!
04:40 <@preaction> no wait. just regular not
04:41 <+Radix-wrk> It's an aussie slang used by greeks and lebanese over here to say something is pretty cool
04:41 <+Radix-wrk> ie. "That car is fully sick Habib!"
04:41 <+Radix-wrk> sick/sic/sik are used interchangeably in those sentences
04:42 <@preaction> it's west-coast slang in america, not very midwest yet
04:42 <+Radix-wrk> Became a big thing after the aussie show and movie "Fat Pizza"
04:42 <@preaction> nik's west-coast i think. come to think of it i don't know where nik lives
04:43 <@preaction> ... and fixing one bug reveals another...
04:43 <+Radix-wrk> So to be called "sick" has other connotations over here.. it can also mean very cool
04:44 <@vayde> Im midwest.  Minneapolis.  Sick here is just, sick.
04:45 <@preaction> vayde: wait, don't we have a staff get-together this weekend sometime?
04:45 <@vayde> week from friday
04:46 <@preaction> good. i thought i forgot. way too much stuff piling up
04:46 <@vayde> Friday the 13th actually.
04:46 <@vayde> fitting I thought
04:47 <@preaction> dear jeebus
04:47 <@preaction> i'll need to bring my garlic
04:47 <@preaction> does garlic work on you people?
04:49 <@vayde> nope, not crucifixes either.  We're different sorts of terrible evil
04:49 <@vayde> you could try beer, or women.  I confess to having a weakness for either.
04:50 <@vayde> they don't really ward off the evil, just keep it distracted for a while
04:55 <@preaction> how can i ward off evil with evil? more beer?
05:00 <+Radix-wrk> Just bring buffy along
05:01 <@preaction> but buffy is part of the "evil-that-is-greater-than-nik"
05:01 <@vayde> everything's better with more beer
05:01 <@vayde> and yes, please bring buffy
05:02 <@vayde> I like her kind of evil...
05:02 <@preaction> the pretty one or sarah michelle gellar?
05:02 <@vayde> the original please
05:04 <@vayde> speaking of that kind of evil, you guys are lucky, I have managed to persuade the GF that the 'staff get together' is just for staff
05:04 <@vayde> If you think meeting me is a shock, wait till you meet her.
05:05 <+Radix-wrk> You mean this buffy? - http://next-episode.net/babe-of-the-day/babe/470.html
05:05 <+Radix-wrk> Personally, I prefer the series
05:06 <@vayde> yeah, that's the one.
05:06 <@preaction> my gf's 5 foot nothing and about 120 lbs. i'm six-three, 190. our maturity levels are so different she could be my daughter if i weren't always pawing her. i doubt you can shock me :p
05:06 <@preaction> kristy swanson! that's her name
05:06 <+Radix-wrk> favourite episode was Hush - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hush_(Buffy_episode)
05:06 <@vayde> Ok, you thought that the Japanese-Swedish-Scot chinese martial artist who has delusions of being a developer was bad?
05:07 <@vayde> my gf's a costume designer for renaissance festivals, not to mention a slinky, redheaded, tatooed, ex dominatrix and stripper
05:07 <@preaction> i'm shocked
05:08 <@preaction> SHOCK AND AWE
05:08 <@vayde> I win
05:08 <+Radix-wrk> awesome
05:08 <@vayde> just another lure for the next WUC.  I don't think you want to put it on the ads though
05:08 <+Radix-wrk> My gf sells drugs for a living - and makes a nice bit of money out of it.
05:09  * SDuensin takes more of an interested in what vayde has to say
05:10 <@vayde> heh, I don't know if I can top myself.
05:11 < SDuensin> Well, if your girl is the dominatrix, that makes you a bottom.  :-P
05:11 <+Radix-wrk> I went out with a Madam once
05:11 < PedersenMJ> Hmm, lessee: Buy drugs from Radix's gf, or ogle vayde's gf. One legal, one not. One liable to get me punched by three people (vayde, vayde's gf, and my wife), one liable to get me thrown to the ground by large men in blue uniforms who will place me in a large building to stay with large men named Bubba. Tough choice.
05:11 <@vayde> lol
05:12 <@preaction> PedersenMJ: you'd survive the blue men. i'm not sure you'd survive vayde
05:12 <@vayde> naw, she stopped the dominatrix gig a while ago
05:12 < PedersenMJ> Survive the blue men? Sure. Dunno that I'd survive the Bubba's, though.
05:12 <@vayde> I pop the cores of heavy bags with punches.
05:12 <@preaction> webgui question: should different revisions to the same assetId under the same version tag create new revisions? or should an asset only get one revision per version tag?
05:13 <+Radix-wrk> Hmm.. interesting one
05:13 <+Radix-wrk> Currently it does new revisions
05:13 <@preaction> right, but i don't know why
05:13 <@preaction> i mean, when debugging javascript, i've got like 60 revisions of this template
05:14 <+Radix-wrk> Well if something is being edited multiple times before it's committed then you don't necessarily want to lose those changes
05:14 <@preaction> true
05:14 <+Radix-wrk> I think it should really combine all of the revisions done under a revision tag when it's actually committed tho
05:15 <@preaction> what if after its committed some higher power decides they want B (which was deleted when committed)?
05:15 <@preaction> seems to me the issue is all-or-nothing, and there's a better argument for all
05:15 <+Radix-wrk> they'd roll back to the revision prior to the latest commit
05:16 <@preaction> but the changes that made B are lost, A being the original, C being the new
05:16 <@preaction> if B and C were created under the same version tag
05:16 <+Radix-wrk> Oh I see what you mean
05:16 <+Radix-wrk> Yeah.. better argument for all then for those cases
05:17 < PedersenMJ> Too bad there's no good ui to allow the user to choose whether or not to collapse the changes.
05:19 <@preaction> you can delete revisions. perhaps a revision manager much like the asset manager? with a checkbox list so you can select multiple revisions to delete?
05:48 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui
05:48 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ
05:48 <+perlDreamer> crythias: How you doing, man?
05:51 <+perlDreamer> vayde: I got you test email.  I forwarded it back to you with all headers for inspection.
05:51 <@vayde> cool.  It turned out there WAS a server issue
05:52 <@vayde> I finally got all the test emails I sent out this afternoon.  Boy my 'delete' key got tired
05:52 <+perlDreamer> especially after handling a room of "monsters"
05:53 <@vayde> Yeah, years ago we called them the 'baby class', but word got out, and they were offended.
05:53 <@vayde> then we started calling them the monsters, and word got out.  they're proud of it
05:55 <+perlDreamer> it's amazing how labeling works
05:56 <@vayde> It's a fun class. 4~6 yr olds.  Not the most technical class around mind you, but entertaining.
06:01 <@preaction> that's cute
06:02 <@preaction> almost as cute as kittens.
06:02 <+perlDreamer> preaction: maybe you'd like to go class and tell them that?
06:02 <+perlDreamer> I can see it now
06:02 <@preaction> and have them beat the crap out of me? my gf's 6-year old brother already does that, and he isn't being training in martial art
06:03 <+perlDreamer> vayde can fix that...
06:03 <@preaction> true, though i'm not sure what martial art vayde teaches
06:03 <+perlDreamer> W.A.
06:03 <@preaction> that means nothing to me :(
06:04 <+perlDreamer> it's a redneck term.  Whoop Ass
06:04 <@vayde> Hsing-I, Bagua, Taiji, Northern Shaolin Longfist, and Southern Hung Gar
06:04 <@preaction> ah
06:04 <@preaction> and now i know as much as i did before ;)
06:04 <+perlDreamer> usually stored in cans, hence the phrase, "Open up a can of Whoop Ass on you"
06:04 <@vayde> I'll show you guys a bit of it when we're in person
06:05 <@preaction> i imagine there are better disciplines for different types of people?
06:05 <@vayde> It all comes down to physics and physiology.  The difference between styles is largely a matter of approach and taste
06:05 <+perlDreamer> okay, needing a clue here.  Why would one use $asset->getValue('assetProperty') instead of $asset->get('assetProperty')?
06:07 <@preaction> pd: i believe getValue has the added benefit of looking at the form first. at least, from the docs i read on it?
06:07 <@preaction> it sounded to me like you could use $asset->getValue() as the value of a form element in an asset edit form and it would automatically survive preview / edit errors
06:07 <+crythias> sorry for delay... perlDreamer. I'm fine.
06:07 <@preaction> of course, i've never used it as such
06:08 <+perlDreamer> preaction: I think the docs lie
06:08 <@preaction> i do too, because i didn't see anything referring to session->form
06:08 <+perlDreamer> pinging rizen.
06:08 <+perlDreamer> rizen, please report to IRC to beat your clueless volunteer dev
06:10 -!- crythias is now known as cluelessnewb
06:10 <+cluelessnewb> what's a webgui? izzat like a browser?
06:11 <+perlDreamer> naw
06:12 <+perlDreamer> preaction: getValue just looks like it dupes some of the code in new, for providing defaults from the definition sub.
06:13 <@preaction> perlbot be cluelessnewb 
06:13 < perlbot> <cluelessnewb> How I can make teh web wit pearl?!?!
06:13 <+cluelessnewb> how do I get webgui off of me?
06:13 <+perlDreamer> cluelessnewb: lava soap and a camel hair brush
06:14 <+perlDreamer> either that, or wd40
06:14 <+perlDreamer> it fixes everything
06:14 <+cluelessnewb> webgui sounds like something a spider shoots out of its butt.
06:15 <+cluelessnewb> can you imagine Spderman being more anatomically correct?
06:15 <@vayde> my gf thought the mascot should be cthlulu
06:15 <@preaction> omg gooey totally reminds me of a baby cthlulu
06:15 <@vayde> that's what she said too
06:16 <@vayde> that's alright though, remember, 'evil' spelled backwards is 'live'
06:17 <+cluelessnewb> and Maisey backwards is es I am
06:17 <+cluelessnewb> Yes I am
06:17 <@preaction> Naomi I moan
06:17 <@preaction> A toyota's a toyota
06:17 <@preaction> A dog! A panic in a pagoda!
06:18 <+cluelessnewb> A man a plan a canal. Panama.
06:18 <@vayde> If I could reach you, I would hurt you
06:18 -!- cluelessnewb is now known as crythias
06:19 <@preaction> i palindome i!
06:19 <@preaction> someday mother will die and i'll get the money
06:20 <+crythias> I can't believe it's not butter.
06:22 <@rizen> let the beating commence
06:22  * PedersenMJ breaks out the popcorn.
06:22 <+perlDreamer> greetings, sensei.  Why does one use getValue vs get?
06:22 <@vayde> hajime!
06:22 <+Radix-wrk> !Ah Satan - Natasha!
06:22 <+crythias> Speaking of Cthulhu ... http://www.electric-escape.net/node/1425
06:24 <@vayde> I got a button for christmas that said: "Jesus saves, Moses invests, Cthulu forcloses!"
06:24 <@rizen> get is the value stored in the db
06:24 <@rizen> getValue is a helper
06:24 <@rizen> it checks the value from form() first
06:24 <@rizen> $session->form->param()
06:24 <@rizen> then gets the value from the db
06:24 <@rizen> then gets the default
06:25 <@rizen> so basically, if the form value exists, it uses that
06:25 <+perlDreamer> the form->param part is missing from getValue
06:25 <@rizen> it is?
06:25 <+perlDreamer> yup
06:25 <@rizen> i wonder when it was removed
06:27 <+perlDreamer> before rev 1152
06:27 <+Radix-wrk> http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=2401
06:27 <+perlDreamer> before rev 24
06:28 <+perlDreamer> a very long time ago
06:28 <+perlDreamer> are the CVS archives still online?
06:29 <@rizen> hmmm...perhaps i removed it on purpose
06:29 <@rizen> if it's been gone that long
06:29 <@rizen> then it probably shouldn't be there
06:29 <@rizen> and i just don't remember it
06:30 <+perlDreamer> so the real difference is that get gives you values from the db, and getValue will give you values from the db OR defaults from the definition sub.
06:31 <@rizen> yup
06:32 <@rizen> we probably don't need getValue() anymore
06:32 <@rizen> we can probably change get() to do that
06:32 <@rizen> and then write getValue() out of existence in the 8.x series
06:32 <@rizen> but that's so far off, who cares
06:32 <+perlDreamer> or new could pull defaults out of the def sub
06:33 <+perlDreamer> then we could drop getValue and leave get as is
06:33 <@rizen> either or...but for now it stays as is
06:33 <@rizen> as i said, who cares
06:33 <@rizen> it's too far off to start thinking about 8.x now
06:33 <+perlDreamer> got it, chief
06:34 <+perlDreamer> I'll update the POD
06:36 <+perlDreamer> I'll send you a Beating IOU, for another time
06:37 <@rizen> bah...no need
06:37 <@rizen> i'll just take it out on sarah
06:37 <@rizen> =)
06:37 <+perlDreamer> oh dear
06:38 <+perlDreamer> oh, while you're here, care to confirm or deny the rumor of WebGUI-Microsoft connection?
06:39 <+Radix-wrk> heh
06:39 <@rizen> what have you heard
06:39 <@rizen> i will admit there have been talks
06:40 <+perlDreamer> well, it seems strange that several PB people would choose to move to the only city whose airport letters are MSN
06:40 <+perlDreamer> from there it was easy to connect the dots
06:40 <+perlDreamer> increased workload
06:40 <+perlDreamer> decreased productivity
06:40 <+perlDreamer> (everyone moved to using Microsoft desktops)
06:41 <@vayde> maybe you should hand over that IOU after all...
06:41 <@rizen> pd: you know why i hired vayde, right?
06:42 <@rizen> it's to conduct beatings on my behalf
06:42 <@rizen> all i can do is brute force the beatings
06:42 <+perlDreamer> He's a db expert
06:42 <+perlDreamer> (Designated Beater)
06:42 <@rizen> but he knows how to kill you in 6 different styles
06:42 <@vayde> I'm the complaint department
06:42 <+Radix-wrk> heh
06:45 <+Radix-wrk> heh.. PB Support board just hit 100000 views
06:46 <+Radix-wrk> http://www.plainblack.com/discuss
06:46 <@rizen> that seems very low
06:47 <+Radix-wrk> rizen: could you do me a favour and rate my rfe when you have a minute?
06:47 <+Radix-wrk> http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/additional-post-template-variables-for-cs
06:49 <+Radix-wrk> Compared to the other forums it seems low, but obviously only support users can see the forum, so it's pretty impressive if you look at it that way
06:50 <@rizen> true
06:50 <@rizen> i don't like your RFE's radix
06:50 <+Radix-wrk> why?
06:52 <@rizen> mostly because they are written by you
06:52 <+Radix-wrk> :P
06:53 <@rizen> what if i told you that you can already do this
06:53 <+Radix-wrk> how?  I'd love to know
06:53 <@rizen> and even moreso than that, it has far more power than what you're asking for
06:54 <+perlDreamer> "dumber than a box of rocks"  rjacobsen is too funny
06:54 <@rizen> what is this information worth to you?
06:54 <@rizen> perhaps you will punch perlDreamer in the arm?
06:55 <+Radix-wrk> sure
06:55 <@rizen> hehe
06:55 <+perlDreamer> left arm please, I have to perform this weekend
06:55 <@vayde> ooh!  ooh!  pick me!
06:55 <@rizen> the answer you are looking for is ^-;
06:56 <@rizen> let's say you write an article^-; that looks like this
06:56 <@rizen> your synopsis will now be "let's say you write an article"
06:57 <@rizen> the ^-; special character tells webgui where you want to grab the synopsis from
06:57 <@rizen> so rather than taking after the first carriage return
06:57 <@rizen> it will stop at ^-;
06:57 <@rizen> wherever that is in the text
06:57 <@rizen> in addition to that
06:57 <+Radix-wrk> Ahh.. well there's a macro I never knew existed.  You're right, that works a treat.
06:57 <@rizen> it's not a macro
06:58 <@rizen> it's just s special sequence of characters
06:58 <@rizen> anyway...in addition to that, you can actually go one step further
06:58 <@rizen> you can expose the synopsis field directly
06:58 <@rizen> then you can type something wholly new into the synopsis if you like
06:59 <@rizen> anyway...i'm going to go ahead and delete your RFE
06:59 <+Radix-wrk> k
06:59 <@rizen> because i would have rejected it anyway
07:00 <@rizen> adding variables like those to the collaboration system would have slowed it down tremendouslyy
07:01 <@rizen> go forth and share this knowledge
07:01 <@rizen> in the form of a wiki article
07:01 <+Radix-wrk> fair enough - preaction did mention that too - but he didn't tell me about ^-;
07:01 <@rizen> he probably didn't know about it
07:01 <+perlDreamer> It also works in the Article
07:02 <@rizen> true 
07:02 <@rizen> most people don't even know that the article asset supports pagination
07:03 <+perlDreamer> most people don't read the docs, that's why
07:03 <+Radix-wrk> Happy to write a wiki article for it - though I don't follow the step further you described or how I would do any of that
07:03 <@rizen> it's actually already done for you
07:03 <@rizen> take a look at the "submission form" template vs the "post form" template
07:04 <@rizen> submission form sets up the synopsis as a separate field
07:06 <+perlDreamer> that's another good thing to mention.  The marker only works if there is no explicit synopsis.
07:08 <+Radix-wrk> So is this documented anywhere currently?
07:08 <+perlDreamer> no
07:11 <+perlDreamer> it is now, but only in the template variables.
07:12 <+perlDreamer> We can't document it via hover help since there's no hover help for the Post Edit form.
07:12 <+perlDreamer> that's why a wiki article would be great
07:13 <+Radix-wrk> any ideas what the wiki article name should be called?
07:13 <+perlDreamer> rizen's righteous post content synopsis marker
07:13 <+Radix-wrk> I'll write one up now, and at least to describe how to use it in collaboration system posts
07:16 < PedersenMJ> post title: How To Add A Synopsis To Your Collaboration System Posts
07:16 <@rizen> hey pedersenmj
07:16 <@rizen> i've been meaning to talk to you
07:17 < PedersenMJ> Uh-oh...
07:17 <@rizen> one of our hosting customers just launched a new site
07:17 <@rizen> that i think you'll want to check out
07:17 < PedersenMJ> Done esta?
07:17 <@rizen> http://www.playstationnationpodcast.com/
07:17 < PedersenMJ> Donde esta, even?
07:17 <+Radix-wrk> hehe.. cool
07:17 <+Radix-wrk> burned theme
07:17 < PedersenMJ> Too cool!
07:18 < PedersenMJ> That totally took me by surprise. Thank you :)
07:18 <@rizen> so see
07:18 <@rizen> your work paid off already
07:18 <@rizen> you should do more of those for the contest we have going on right now
07:18 <+Radix-wrk> needs to be original work tho
07:18 < PedersenMJ> I'm going to. Calypso is going to go up this week. I think MultiFlex next week.
07:18 <@rizen> nope
07:19 <@rizen> i had kristi change the rules
07:19 < PedersenMJ> Dunno which one for the week after, though.
07:19 <+Radix-wrk> Oh?
07:19 <@rizen> you can use open source designs
07:19 <@rizen> provided you provide a link back to the original
07:19 <@rizen> so we know you didn't rip it off
07:19 <+Radix-wrk> Oh cool.. means I could look at entering too then
07:19 <@rizen> sweet
07:19 <+Radix-wrk> I could never do my own.. but I can rip off someone elses witht he best of them ;)
07:20 <+perlDreamer> andreas01
07:20 < PedersenMJ> Ditto here. I suck at original, but rip a theme? That's easy.
07:20 <@rizen> oh btw guys, i'll be sending out your schwag and whatnot next week for the wiki contest
07:20 <@rizen> i'm a little behind
07:20 <@rizen> sorry about that
07:21 <+Radix-wrk> np :)
07:21 < PedersenMJ> That's cool.
07:21 <@rizen> we're short two people, and i have another on vacation
07:21 <@rizen> so i'm working 4 jobs right now
07:21 <@rizen> =)
07:21 < PedersenMJ> If I'm really lucky, I can get a bit more outta the theme contest ;)
07:21 <@rizen> true
07:21 <@rizen> anyway...gotta get some sleep
07:21 <@rizen> later
07:22 < PedersenMJ> l8r
07:22 <+perlDreamer> he works too hard
07:22 <+perlDreamer> Bill should give him a raise
07:24 <@vayde> Bill?
07:24 <+perlDreamer> Gates
07:24 <@vayde> lol
07:37 <+Radix-wrk> http://www.plainblack.com/community-wiki/how-to-add-a-synopsis-to-your-collaboration-system-templates
07:39 <+perlDreamer> Radix-*, you rock
07:39 <+Radix-wrk> hopefully I've explained it well enough for ppl to understand
07:44 < PedersenMJ> Radix: What are post templates?
07:47 < PedersenMJ> http://www.bash.org/?21784
07:50 <+Radix-wrk> http://www.plainblack.com/?op=viewHelp;hid=collaboration%20post%20list%20template%20variables;namespace=Asset_Collaboration
07:50 <+perlDreamer> having re-re-vanquished the monster, our hero exists stage left
07:50 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."]
07:51 < PedersenMJ> Damn, I didn't expect you to reply to that with anything other than a growl.
07:52 <@vayde> ugh, need sleep.  Later gents
07:53 <@preaction> you people and your "sleep"
07:53 <@preaction> it's so cute
07:53 <+Radix-wrk> cya vayde
07:53 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
07:53 < PedersenMJ> I'm heading for sleep too.
07:53 <+Radix-wrk> wuss
07:53 <@preaction> is it bad that i do not remember the last time i slept?
07:53 < PedersenMJ> Yeah, I am. I start to pass out at 1am in a non-recoverable fashion.
07:54 < PedersenMJ> l8r all
07:54 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has quit []
07:56 <+Radix-wrk> sleep probs preaction?
07:56 <@preaction> so much to do, caffiene to do it, caffiene causes inability to sleep, then eventually it becomes "if i sleep now, i won't get up in time for *"
07:57 <@preaction> like now: in order to make the meeting tomorrow at 8a, i need to drop my car off at the shop tonight, walk home. meaning another hour of wake-time
07:57 <@preaction> meaning 6.5 hours of sleep
07:57 <+Radix-wrk> better than nothing
07:57 <@preaction> as JT said, we're working more than one person's job :p
07:58 <+Radix-wrk> He mentioned that you guys are down two people - roy is one obviously.. who was the other?
08:00 <@preaction> Drake
08:00 <@preaction> left before the new year
08:00 <+Radix-wrk> He was barely a blip on the radar really
08:01 <@preaction> durno, he was hired before i was. i think instead of me actually
08:01 <+Radix-wrk> he was hired around the same time the WUC was on.. I spoke to him briefly then and he was only just starting
08:02 <+Radix-wrk> So September to December - maybe two/three months..
08:02 <@preaction> yeah, if it weren't for him, you'd've been meeting me ;)
08:02 <@preaction> 18 years old, i still can't believe it
08:02 <+Radix-wrk> eeks.. scary
08:03 <@preaction> i would've been meek kitten though, instead, when you meet me, i get to be power-webgui-god
08:03 <@preaction> i'll need a suit
08:03 <+Radix-wrk> heh
08:03 <@preaction> a white suit
08:03 <@preaction> white top hat and cane
08:03 <@preaction> unf
08:04 <+Radix-wrk> sounds like a photo op - with your gf dressed up next to ya ;)
08:05 <@preaction> pfft, i'll get my hos on my wings, boi
08:13 <@preaction> anyway, gone drop car off / sleep. cya
09:28 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui
10:22 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
11:19 -!- wgGuest84 [n=wgGuest8@s208148.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #webgui
11:20 < wgGuest84> hello
11:20 < wgGuest84> i need some help on troubleshooting webgui 7.3.13 installation
11:22 < wgGuest84> can I get help from somebody ?
11:23 <+Radix-wrk> wassup
11:23 <+Radix-wrk> can't guarantee i can help, but I can listen! :)
11:24 < wgGuest84> thnx
11:24 < wgGuest84> i installed webgui 7.3.13
11:24 < wgGuest84> and did all the setup
11:24 < wgGuest84> when I try to run the apache +
11:25 < wgGuest84> Starting WebGUI 7.3.13
11:25 < wgGuest84> Loading www.domain.com.conf
11:25 < wgGuest84> WebGUI Started!
11:25 < wgGuest84> usr/local/apache2/bin/apachectl: line 78:  5622 7d424e863057307e3057305f            $HTTPD -k $ARGV
11:25 < wgGuest84> and the server stops responding for a while
11:25 < wgGuest84> i checked with # /data/WebGUI/sbin/perl preload.perl 
11:25 < wgGuest84> it shows: +
11:26 < wgGuest84> Can't locate object method "server" via package "Apache2::ServerUtil" at preload.perl line 57..
11:26 < wgGuest84> i posted this trouble in forum (last message in http://www.plainblack.com/etcetera/cant-locate-object-method-server/3)
11:27 < wgGuest84> can you please give me any idea ?
11:41 < wgGuest84> r u listening Radix-wrk ?
11:43 <+Radix-wrk> Sorry.. was busy for a bit then.. lemme catch up.
11:43 <+Radix-wrk> How are you installing webgui?  are you using the WRE?
11:44 < wgGuest84> no
11:44 < wgGuest84> from source
11:44 < wgGuest84> in a centOS
11:44 <+Radix-wrk> okay.. have you checked your perl setup using /data/WebGUI/sbin/testEnvironment.pl
11:44 < wgGuest84> yes..
11:46 <+Radix-wrk> Sounds like a perl module is missing from the error message, but not sure what it would be I'm afraid.
11:46 <+Radix-wrk> Any particular reason you're not using the WRE?
11:46 < wgGuest84> i checked.. Apache2::ServerUtil is there
11:47 < wgGuest84> actually I am preparing a development server.. where there will be a lots of changes in source
11:47 <+Radix-wrk> WebGUI has a lot of perl dependencies, and the WRE is the recommended installation method for this very reason
11:48 <+Radix-wrk> there is a WRE installation for centos though, and it makes life soooo much easier
11:48 <+Radix-wrk> that's what we're using
11:48 < wgGuest84> actually I used another previous version before 
11:48 < wgGuest84> 7.3... 
11:49 < wgGuest84> i installed from source that time..
11:49 < wgGuest84> but didnt face such problem
11:49 < wgGuest84> it's a requirement anyway to install from the source
11:49 < wgGuest84> i am stucked with this error from yesterday :(
11:50 <+Radix-wrk> I don't know I'm afraid.. it sounds like there's a missing perl module that isn't tested in testEnvironment, but not sure how to fix it offhand.
11:50 <+Radix-wrk> Most of the developers are asleep at the moment, preaction and rizen might be able to tell you what it is when they wake up.
11:51 < wgGuest84> could u have a look in the details of my problem that i posted in the forum?
11:51 <+Radix-wrk> but that probably won't be for several hours - it's the middle of the night for them atm
11:51 < wgGuest84> i c
11:51 <+Radix-wrk> yeah, I've had a look - I'm not that familiar with the source install and perl modules needed these days tho
11:51 < wgGuest84> i c
11:51 <+Radix-wrk> I use Centos myself, but I installed the WRE for it
11:51 <+Radix-wrk> it is THE best way to install webgui - without a doubt
11:52 <+Radix-wrk> I can do a base install of webgui on centos within minutes
11:52 <+Radix-wrk> using the wre for rhel4
11:52 < wgGuest84> but since there is a source release.. that is of some use surely like we are using..:)
11:53 < wgGuest84> in fact webGUI did great on our last project..
11:53 <+Radix-wrk> Yeah, I haven't used a source install since version 6.8 tho
11:53 < wgGuest84> so, what do u suggest as of now ?
11:53 <+Radix-wrk> I was having odd issues with perl modules on my previous setup and when i switched to the WRE they all went away - I've been with the WRE ever since
11:54 <+Radix-wrk> I'd highly recommend taking a look at the WRE if you can
11:54 <+Radix-wrk> if you must stick with a source install, I'd come back in say 5-6 hours and try and catch preaction or rizen
11:54 < wgGuest84> is it like.. installing from WRE then I can use the source installation ?
11:55 <+Radix-wrk> the WRE gives you all of the perl source if that's what you mean
11:55 <+Radix-wrk> the WRE is a tar.gz file that contains everything you need to run WebGUI - all the perl modules, mysql, apache, etc all in one big file
11:56 <+Radix-wrk> well.. kinda.. it downloads the latest webgui source and installs that really
11:56 <+Radix-wrk> the WRE is everything you need to RUN webgui
11:56 < wgGuest84> o..the team leader just solved the problem
11:56 < wgGuest84> webGUI is now running fine
11:56 <+Radix-wrk> excellent
11:56 <+Radix-wrk> what was it then?
11:58 <+Radix-wrk> I'd still recommend the WRE.  Using the wre simplifies upgrades and comes with fully preconfigured apache optimised for webgui.  It also has some nice scripts to quickly add new webgui websites with ease
11:59 <+Radix-wrk> it also makes backing up and cloning a webgui setup so much easier - just copy one directory onto a blank system.
11:59 < wgGuest84> sorry.. was talking to him
11:59 <+Radix-wrk> No probs
11:59 < wgGuest84> actually he changed some settings in apache-> httpd.conf
11:59 < wgGuest84> he added user "daemon" and Group "daemon" 
12:00 < wgGuest84> probably its the spectre who needs those
12:00 <+Radix-wrk> wierd.. didn't sound like that was where the problem was to me.. but if it fixed it who am I to argue! :)
12:00 < wgGuest84> :)
12:01 < wgGuest84> yeah.. the error message was misleading
12:01 <+Radix-wrk> I'm afraid I'm gonna head off.. 5pm here (and 6pm for you I suspect) - have a good easter! :)
12:01 < wgGuest84> o..thanks
12:01 < wgGuest84> it ws nice talking to u
12:01 <+Radix-wrk> Do itashimashite!
12:01 < wgGuest84> wow !!
12:01 < wgGuest84> u know japanese
12:01 < wgGuest84> btw... where r u ?
12:02 <+Radix-wrk> I know a little
12:02 <+Radix-wrk> from Perth, Western Australia
12:02 < wgGuest84> i c
12:02 < wgGuest84> one question if u dont mind
12:02 <+Radix-wrk> I've been to tokyo though and know a lot of japanese :)
12:02 < wgGuest84> how can i join this irc channel from visual iRC
12:02 < wgGuest84> ( that's cool :) )
12:02 <+Radix-wrk> jump on the server irc.freenode.net I think and the channel is #webgui
12:03 < wgGuest84> i couldnt find irc.freenode.net.. actually I am not much used to use IRC
12:03 <+Radix-wrk> try using something like /server irc.freenode.net and it should get you here
12:03 <+Radix-wrk> then /join #webgui
12:03 < wgGuest84> o...i will try.. 
12:04 < wgGuest84> thanks a lot for ur help
12:04 <+Radix-wrk> no probs.. hope to see you here more often in future!
12:04 < wgGuest84> i hope too :)
12:04 <+Radix-wrk> lots of useful and interesting stuff gets discussed here, so worthwhile dropping in and idling like I do :)
12:04 < wgGuest84> that's good.. i would like to do that..
12:04 <+Radix-wrk> ja ne!
12:05 < wgGuest84> arigatou-gozaimasu
12:05 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"]
12:05 -!- wgGuest84 [n=wgGuest8@s208148.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit []
13:07 -!- syedm [n=Tanvir@s208148.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #webgui
13:08 < syedm> nick sstanvir
13:09 -!- syedm is now known as sstanvir
13:09 <+Radix_> Home! :)
13:10 < sstanvir> good :)
13:10 < sstanvir> so.. that ws ur work nick Radix_wrk ?
13:10 <+Radix_> yup
13:10 < sstanvir> i ws also thinking so
13:11 < sstanvir> mystery is my problem came back again :(
13:12 <+Radix_> what do the apache logs say?
13:12 <+Radix_> and what is in webgui.log
13:12 <+Radix_> perlbot paste
13:12 < perlbot> Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.
13:12 < sstanvir> in the apache log nothing
13:12 <+Radix_> You can paste the info using one of those instead of spamming it to the channel
13:13 < sstanvir> i c, ok
13:13 < sstanvir> thnx for the info
13:13 <+Radix_> np
13:13 < sstanvir> but I dont want to disturb u with the issues 
13:13 < sstanvir> otsukare-sama-desu :)
13:14 <+Radix_> With your dev box.. do you have anything else on it?
13:14 <+Radix_> or is it set up just for webgui?
13:15 < sstanvir> its newly setup
13:15 <+Radix_> If it's just for webgui, then there's absolutely no reason not to use the WRE
13:15 <+Radix_> you can install the wre and webgui within minutes on a blank centos box
13:15 < sstanvir> actuallly what is the difference between the WRE and the source release ?
13:16 <+Radix_> the WRE is everything you need to run WebGUI - so it's a special distribution of apache/mysql/perl and all the perl modules webgui depends on.  It also includes scripts to help you get started quickly with Webgui.
13:17 <+Radix_> It doesn't actually include webgui itself - it downloads that as part of the setup
13:17 < sstanvir> i c
13:18 < sstanvir> brb
13:20 <+Radix_> with centos I generally do a basic install, no mysql, apache, perl, etc at all installed
13:20 <+Radix_> then you install the wre and run the setup
13:20 < sstanvir> understood
13:21 < sstanvir> actually it depends on the team leader.. I will try to convince him
13:21 <+Radix_> the only gotcha I've found is you need to make sure you delete any /etc/my.cnf files that might be there
13:22 <+Radix_> I might point out that the WRE is the recommended method for using webgui according to plainblack - and the best way to get support also
13:22 <+Radix_> there's info in the wiki on doing an install too
13:23 < sstanvir> yes.. i checked the web
13:24 < sstanvir> it looks simple to install from the wre.. 
13:25 <+Radix_> it is.. it's great :)
13:25 < sstanvir> you already convinced me
13:25 <+Radix_> good.. my job is done here then ;)
13:25 < sstanvir> haha
13:26 < sstanvir> but now is the toughest part to convince the Tl 
13:26 < sstanvir> anyway...
13:26 < sstanvir> thanks a lot for ur time
13:26 <+Radix_> Good luck! :)
13:26 <+Radix_> time for me to get supplies for the easter long weekend here :)
13:26 <+Radix_> four days holiday have just started for me :)
13:26 < sstanvir> wow!
13:27 < sstanvir> i am sure u have lots of plans
13:27 <+Radix_> got a friend's wedding to attend, and looks like we might be doing some archery and some karaoke this weekend too.. should be fun! :)
13:27 < sstanvir> great
13:27 < sstanvir> Have a nice holidays !!
13:28 < sstanvir> Catch you again!
13:29 < sstanvir> bye
13:31 -!- sstanvir [n=Tanvir@s208148.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has left #webgui []
14:53 -!- AMH_bob [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui
15:04 < nuba> nice holidays folks!
15:26 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@wlan-145-94-247-137.wlan.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui
15:26 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ
15:45 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16:09 -!- bopbop_ [n=kristi@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui
16:10 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has joined #webgui
16:10 -!- mode/#webgui [+v Radix_] by ChanServ
16:24 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #webgui
16:38 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has quit ["Windows doesn't have users, it has hostages."]
16:49 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has joined #webgui
16:49 -!- mode/#webgui [+v Radix_] by ChanServ
16:54 -!- vayde [n=vayde@209.134.142.196] has joined #webgui
16:54 -!- mode/#webgui [+o vayde] by ChanServ
16:58 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["90% of the problems that people have with GNU/Linux are to impute to Windows."]
17:31 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@wlan-145-94-247-137.wlan.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui []
17:59 -!- AMH_bob [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []
18:01 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
18:01 -!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui
18:06 -!- AMH_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit ["leaving"]
18:20 < SDuensin> Good morningish.
18:26 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has joined #webgui
18:26 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ
19:11 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
19:11 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat054.mxim.com] has joined #webgui
19:11 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ
19:20 -!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@casr-dev.fwsm2ppuser.ou.edu] has joined #webgui
19:29 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #webgui
20:45 -!- bopbop_ [n=kristi@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has left #webgui []
20:51 < perlmonkey2> quiet today
20:51 <+perlDreamer> muy
20:51 < perlmonkey2> webgui religious holiday?
20:51 <+perlDreamer> how goes the Moose rewrite?
20:51 < perlmonkey2> heh
20:51 < perlmonkey2> I think I'll focus my extra time on p6.
20:52 <+perlDreamer> I did some p6 test suite hacking for a few weeks
20:52 <+perlDreamer> then the spec changed from under me
20:52 <+perlDreamer> so I worked around it
20:52 <+perlDreamer> then it changed again, and I gave up
20:52 < perlmonkey2> a very fluid dev env.
20:53 <+perlDreamer> it is
20:53 <+perlDreamer> which allows for very powerful dynamics
20:53 <+perlDreamer> but also exposes you to lots of criticism from outside observers
20:54 < perlmonkey2> I only take criticism from Perl::Critic.
20:54 < perlmonkey2> or anyone else who bothers to tell me my work is crap ;)
21:10 <@vayde> We need a wG forum/nick translation hash.
21:13 <+perlDreamer> can gooeybot help us?
21:14 <+perlDreamer> or perlbot?
21:14 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: rizen?
21:16 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: perlDreamer?
21:22 -!- MrHairgreas1 [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui
21:24 <@vayde> :q
21:24 <@vayde> oops, wrong window ;P
21:25 <+perlDreamer> Never quit, never surrender
21:25 <@vayde> that file couldn't handle any more attention from me
21:25 <@vayde> the wimp
22:12 < ckotil> perlbot channel log
22:14 <@rizen> perlbot: perlbot?
22:14 < perlbot> Perl OO tricks and examples - http://perldoc.perl.org/perlbot.html
22:15 < ckotil> perlbot: log
22:15 < ckotil> perlbot: log?
22:16 < ckotil> bah, perlbot isnt playing nice
22:16 <@rizen> perlbot, rizen is JT, the creator of WebGUI, aka TMRFE
22:16 < perlbot> added rizen to the database
22:16 <@rizen> perlbot: rizen?
22:16 < perlbot> JT, the creator of WebGUI, aka TMRFE
22:16 <@rizen> perlbot, perlDreamer is Colin Kuskie, Contributor of the Year, and jack of all trades
22:16 < perlbot> added perlDreamer to the database
22:17 <@rizen> how's that for your pd?
22:18 <@rizen> perlbot, vayde Nik Ogura, aka bengchoi, aka Nik, is a WebGUI padawan learner
22:18 < perlbot> added vayde Nik Ogura, aka bengchoi, aka Nik, to the database
22:19 <@rizen> perlbot vayde?
22:19 <@rizen> perlbot forget vayde Nik Ogura, aka bengchoi, aka Nik,
22:19 < perlbot> removed vayde Nik Ogura, aka bengchoi, aka Nik, from the database
22:19 <@rizen> perlbot, vayde is Nik Ogura, aka bengchoi, aka Nik, is a WebGUI padawan learner
22:19 < perlbot> added vayde to the database
22:21 < MrHairgreas1> perlbot TMRFE?
22:21 < perlbot> The Man Responsible For Everything -- Sometimes you DO have someone to blame.
22:22 < MrHairgreas1> perlbot pomade?
22:22 < MrHairgreas1> perlbot MrHairgrease
22:22 < MrHairgreas1> perlbot MrHairgrease?
22:25 <@vayde> Jeez, I pop off for a bite, and everyone's talking about me behind my back
22:33 <@rizen> perlbot, MrHairGrease is Martin Kamerbeek, aka MrCookingGrease, aka Eurotrash with sex appeal, and is a Contributor of the Year
22:33 < perlbot> added MrHairGrease to the database
22:33 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
22:34 -!- MrHairgreas1 is now known as MrHairgrease
22:34 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ
22:35 <+MrHairgrease> perlbot maxscience?
22:35 <+MrHairgrease> perlbot iPhoneGuy?
22:35 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui
22:35 <+MrHairgrease> ha well, ignorance is bliss i think
22:37 <@rizen> perlbot, maxscience is iPhoneGuy, some ridiculous bastard from Italy that bitches as loud as he can scream, but is unwilling to lift a finger to help out
22:37 < perlbot> added maxscience to the database
22:38 <@vayde> sounds like there's quite a story there
22:38 <@preaction> what's the WebGUI::Commerce::Item->handler sub for? is it executed after the item is purchased?
22:38 <@preaction> after checkout, say?
22:39 <@rizen> dont' know...i'd have to track it down in the code
22:39 <@rizen> perhaps MrHairGrease knows
22:39 <@preaction> the docs for the sub say "this executes the handler". no real description of its actual purpose
22:45 <+MrHairgrease> the handler is executed on payment
22:46 <+MrHairgrease> it handles the group timeout extension for subscriptions for instance
22:47 <@preaction> when the transaction is completed, i see now
22:47 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
22:47 <+MrHairgrease> and also on complete recurring payments
22:47 <@preaction> which means technically there's no cart at that moment, correct?
22:48 <+MrHairgrease> yes
22:48 <+MrHairgrease> well
22:48 <+MrHairgrease> i would think so
22:48 <+MrHairgrease> it has been some time since i last looked at it
22:49 <@preaction> the idea is this: i need the ID of the cart that the item belonged to
22:49 <+MrHairgrease> carts don't don't have an id
22:49 <+MrHairgrease> a cart i tied to a session
22:49 <+MrHairgrease> maybe you mean the transaction id?
22:49 <@preaction> then how do carts survive across sessions?
22:50 <+MrHairgrease> they don't
22:50 <@preaction> how can i logout and log back in and still have items in my cart?
22:50 <+MrHairgrease> oh
22:50 <+MrHairgrease> let me see
22:51 <+MrHairgrease> i know
22:51 <+MrHairgrease> if you log out
22:51 <+MrHairgrease> your session id stays the same
22:51 <+MrHairgrease> but visiutor is tied to it
22:52 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
22:52 <+MrHairgrease> that must be it
22:53 <+MrHairgrease> WG::C::ShoppingCart->new doesn't have any userId awareness
22:53 <+MrHairgrease> only sessionId
22:57 <@vayde> Is there an easy way to tell when a modification was placed into the core?  Right now I'm doing it the hard way, but downloading the old version, untarring it and looking at the file.  We're all way to lazy to put up with that b.s. for long
22:58 <@preaction> svn blame
22:58 <@preaction> gives you the revision number of lines of the code iirc
22:59 <@vayde> thanks 
23:02 <@vayde> Ok, now having found the right svn version, how do I relate that to an actual release?  (I'm very new to svn)
23:11 <@preaction> http://svn.webgui.org <- look up the messages around the revision, the first one that says "X.X.X released" is the version it was in
23:11 <@vayde> ahh.  little things that make all the difference.  thanks
23:28 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit []
23:29 -!- vayde [n=vayde@209.134.142.196] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
23:31 -!- vayde [n=vayde@209.134.142.196] has joined #webgui
23:31 -!- mode/#webgui [+o vayde] by ChanServ
23:32 <@vayde> Wow, JT asked me about the picture of me on my studio website, so I sent him an older one, his reaction was so violent that it crashed both my IRC client, and Gaim.
23:32 <@vayde> Now that's some bad-assed kung fu!
23:33 <+MrHairgrease> show it! show it!
23:33 <@vayde> um, how do I do that here?  It's not online
23:34 <+MrHairgrease> oh
23:34 <+perlDreamer> post it on PB.com in the contribs area?
23:34 <@preaction> >_> <_> <_<
23:34 <+perlDreamer> email it out?
23:34 <@preaction> ^(--@^@--)>
23:34 <@preaction> youtube!
23:34 <@preaction> show us the monsters!
23:34 <+MrHairgrease> http://www.themonsters.ch
23:35 <+MrHairgrease> tomorrow I'm gonna see them play in utrecht
23:36 <@preaction> nice
23:37 <+perlDreamer> they suck.  Their website uses frames.
23:38 <+MrHairgrease> who cares
23:38 <+MrHairgrease> I'm not going all the way to utrecht just to watch their stupid website =)
23:38 <@vayde> http://www.uma-mn.com/Pics/Rennaissance.JPG
23:39 <@vayde> that's about 12 - 15 yrs old
23:39 <@vayde> 12-15 years ago anyway
23:39 <@vayde> http://www.uma-mn.com/Pics/img_2672.jpg
23:39 <@vayde> that's last year
23:39  * MrHairgrease 's gaim is about to implode
23:40 <+MrHairgrease> what is it?
23:40 <+MrHairgrease> some kind of medieval reenaction?
23:40 <@vayde> the thing next to the girl is me
23:41 <+MrHairgrease> didn't know you ware red dresses
23:41 <@vayde> heh
23:41 <+MrHairgrease> there's that eurotrash humor for you =)
23:41 <+MrHairgrease> don't even try to laugh
23:43 <@vayde> I sincerely you don't have girls over there with as much facial hair as I have.
23:44 <+MrHairgrease> who can what's what with all these costumes
23:44 <+MrHairgrease> can tell*
23:44 <@vayde> what can I say, that's how the gf makes a living, working up those court gowns
23:46 <+MrHairgrease> ok
23:47 <+MrHairgrease> but i can imagine jt's reaction
23:48 <@vayde> he brought it up
23:50 < SDuensin> Dang vayde - looked at your pics.  Now I want to go to Pennsic again.
23:50 <@vayde> Pennsic?
23:51  * SDuensin smacks his head
23:51 < SDuensin> Only the largest SCA event ever.
23:51 <@vayde> Ahh.
23:51 < SDuensin> http://www.pennsic.net/
23:51 <@vayde> I had bad experiences with the SVA crowd.  I hope they're better these days
23:52 < SDuensin> Probably depends on the group.  I've never had problems myself.  Now some other groups, that's a different story.
23:52 <@vayde> One incident when I was berated for my heraldic design from a guy who was wearing a metal watch, photogrey glasses, and had his armor held together with duct tape
23:52 < SDuensin> hehehehe
23:58 < SDuensin> You'd have been proud of me.  Some chick with frickin' skull and crossbones tights and elf ears wandered into our camp.  I chased her off with Yard Guard.
23:59 <@vayde> LOL
23:59 < SDuensin> "We're gypsies!"  No, you're morons.
--- Day changed Fri Apr 06 2007
00:00 < SDuensin> I'm no authenticity police, but man, come on - at least try.  Elf ears?!
00:00  * SDuensin doesn't mind the Coke can at feast.
00:01 <@vayde> I have fun.  The gf's daughter is 16, and very popular with the lads.  I get to growl and stomp.  "Hi there you must be the new vict- er boyfriend"
00:01 < SDuensin> ehhehe
00:02 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["90% of the problems that people have with GNU/Linux are to impute to Windows."]
00:12 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #webgui
00:13 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
00:26 <+perlDreamer> maybe they'd like to come to the 5-year old class to help out?
00:27 <+perlDreamer> They're only five years old, after all...
00:31 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui
00:31 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ
00:32 <@rizen> i need some opinions
00:32 <@rizen> who's got em to spare?
00:32 <+MrHairgrease> sure
00:32 <+perlDreamer> yo
00:32 <@rizen> http://jt.plainblack.com/uploads/DZ/Hu/DZHuIEGTBk7z_HU-JOW-iw/Webgui-site-rev4.jpg
00:32 <+MrHairgrease> positive or negative?
00:32 <@rizen> honest
00:33 <+MrHairgrease> you suck =)
00:33 <@rizen> this is the potential design for the new webgui.org
00:33 <@rizen> split off from plainblack.com
00:33 <@rizen> i'm pretty happy with it
00:33 <@rizen> but before we proceed, i'd like a few gut reactions
00:33 <+perlDreamer> not bad for a front page
00:34 <+MrHairgrease> the design is good
00:34 <+MrHairgrease> but i don't like the yellow
00:34 <+perlDreamer> what does real front page look like (the one that analogs pb.com/support)?
00:34 <@rizen> pd, this isn't about content
00:34 <@rizen> this is about style
00:34 <+MrHairgrease> what is good
00:34 <+MrHairgrease> at least i guess
00:35 <+MrHairgrease> is that is does not have the generic-clean-look that mambo and joomla etc have
00:35 <+MrHairgrease> it kinda makes it stand out
00:35 <+MrHairgrease> otoh those 'clean' layouts have a more professional touch
00:36 <+MrHairgrease> sober like the tax department
00:37 <+MrHairgrease> also
00:37 <@rizen> i think it looks clean, it's just not sparse like those
00:37 <+MrHairgrease> i don't like the blue webgui logo
00:37 <@rizen> the logo is orange like always
00:37 <+MrHairgrease> left of that
00:37 <@rizen> or do you mean the font that says "webgui"
00:37 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
00:37 <+MrHairgrease> the font is just not my thing
00:38 <@rizen> ok, it's one thing to say that you don't like the colors (yellow background, blue font), but i need to know why
00:38 <+MrHairgrease> it has this 90's a have website appeal
00:38 <@rizen> without the why, i can't change it to something good
00:38 <+MrHairgrease> ok
00:38 <+MrHairgrease> let me think on how to word that
00:38 <@rizen> so you also don't like the modern font?
00:38 <@rizen> in addition to the color?
00:40 <+MrHairgrease> yes
00:40 <+MrHairgrease> and it's background
00:40 <+MrHairgrease> it just doesn't fit in with the rest
00:40 <@vayde> I think the yellow draws the attention away from the content.  It should frame it, point it up, not overwhelm it
00:40 <+MrHairgrease> i guess why i don't like the color is
00:41 <+MrHairgrease> b/c their 'weak' 
00:41 <+perlDreamer> it needs more content area
00:41 <+MrHairgrease> i know the dutch word
00:41 <+MrHairgrease> but i dunno the translation
00:41 <@vayde> more content area, yeah.  content seems buried
00:41 <+MrHairgrease> no
00:41 <+MrHairgrease> little content on the frontpage is good
00:41 <+MrHairgrease> people will only read two lines or so
00:41 <+perlDreamer> but rizen said this is "the style"
00:42 <+perlDreamer> are sub-page style different rizen?
00:42 <@vayde> right, but that's what we're talking about
00:42 <+MrHairgrease> the download button is good
00:42 <+MrHairgrease> very visible
00:42 <@vayde> not necessarily what the content is, but the balance between the content area and the stuff on the left seems visually off.
00:43 <+perlDreamer> the links to the forums and wiki needs to be as visible
00:44 <@rizen> the design you're looking at is the front page design, but all the other pages will be a variation on a theme
00:44 <@rizen> for example
00:44 <+MrHairgrease> yeah, but that's those three buttons below the content right?
00:44 <+perlDreamer> if so, then I'm happy
00:44 <@rizen> the banner for the webgui conference is will not be on every page, that's only to show off an example crown
00:45 <@rizen> on most content pages, the content section will be pushed up
00:45 <+MrHairgrease> what i mean by colors and visibility is eg. the firebug page
00:45 <+MrHairgrease> http://www.getfirebug.com/
00:45 <+MrHairgrease> strong colors
00:45 <@rizen> also the page will be stretchy, it won't be limited to the width you're seeing it at now
00:45 <+MrHairgrease> big content that says what the stuff does
00:45 <@rizen> so there will be plenty of room for content
00:45 <+MrHairgrease> and a big install me button
00:45 <+perlDreamer> Let me roll up my opinion.  I like it.  It's bright and different without looking bad.  Links to wiki and forum need to be prominent and content areas should be maximized .
00:46 <@rizen> on the pages that need it the yellow strip on the right side will be stretched out, and the "recent discussion" macro will go in there
00:47 <@rizen> MrHairGrease, I could also argue that the colors of the firebug site are weak
00:47 <@rizen> mustard yellow is not a weak color
00:47 <@rizen> it's not like canary yellow
00:47 <+MrHairgrease> you asked my my opinion
00:47 <+perlDreamer> how does Gooey look on there?  does he clash?
00:47 <+MrHairgrease> that's one of the few things that is not negotiable with me =)
00:48 <@rizen> i know...and i'm not trying to say that your opinion is wrong, just that i don't agree that the colors are weak
00:48 <+MrHairgrease> what i mean with weak is their too pastel for my tastes
00:48 <@rizen> gooey looks great
00:48 <@rizen> gooey is pastel you moron
00:48 <@rizen> =)
00:48 <+MrHairgrease> never said i liked gooey too =)
00:49 <+perlDreamer> watch out, them's fighting words!
00:49 <+perlDreamer> insulting a project's mascot is like making a website in baby-puke yellow
00:49 <+MrHairgrease> never had any children
00:49 <@rizen> purple and yellow are great colors together...that's part of the reason we chose yellow as the background color here
00:49 <+MrHairgrease> wouldn't know what that looks like
00:49 <@rizen> purple and yellow are the colors of royalty
00:50 <+MrHairgrease> ha
00:50 <+perlDreamer> trust me on this one, MHG.  Given the bilious nature of stomach acid, it's baby-puke yellow.
00:50 <+MrHairgrease> the only royalty i care for is royaly sized drinks
00:50 <@vayde> not to mention the colors of the MN Vikings
00:50 <+MrHairgrease> pd: thanks for the tip
00:50 <+perlDreamer> But this is Wisconsin.....?
00:50 <+MrHairgrease> i'll put children on hold for even longer =)
00:51  * SDuensin still doesn't like the yellow.
00:51 <@rizen> webgui is bigger than wisconsin
00:51 <+perlDreamer> MrHairGrease, if you weaken and need a refresher, we can take care of you.
00:51 <+MrHairgrease> pd thanks
00:51 <@rizen> SDuensin...is it because you don't like yellow as a color, or the particular yellows that we've chosen?
00:51 <+MrHairgrease> nice to be able to count on people
00:52 <+MrHairgrease> rizen, with weak is meant pale
00:52 <+MrHairgrease> that's the word i was looking for
00:52 < SDuensin> I just don't care for it as the base color on a web site.
00:53 <@rizen> so your bias is against yellow in general then
00:53 <@rizen> not specifically the colors we've chosen
00:53 < SDuensin> Yea
00:55 <@rizen> ok...quick poll...who here won't like this design no matter what variety of yellow we put on it?
00:56 <+MrHairgrease> it's not really my taste
00:56 < SDuensin> Design is fine with me.  The font on the lozenges is a bit hard to read.
00:57 <@vayde> the lozenge font is hard to read
00:57 <@rizen> we'll be using a different font on the lozenge when we go out, cuz i can't read it either
00:57 <@vayde> the Z's could be taken for an attempt at a lower case L
00:58 <+MrHairgrease> it's the same font as the webgui image
00:58 <+MrHairgrease> next to the logo
00:58 <@rizen> yeah, but big you can read it. small you can't
00:58 <@rizen> some fonts are just like that
00:58 <@vayde> It's cool, it just takes a couple more seconds to decipher
01:23 <+MrHairgrease> vayde don't you worry about that photo you sent jt
01:23 <+MrHairgrease> check this out:
01:23 <+MrHairgrease> http://jt.plainblack.com/uploads/ph/Wv/phWv1xzJkxfxxHor9fVVew/jt_face.jpg
01:24 <@rizen> that's a beautiful face
01:25 <+perlDreamer> it's the face of death!
01:25 <+perlDreamer> or at least badly hungover
01:25 <@rizen> this is an even better close-up, you can really see the detail in the eyes
01:25 <@rizen> http://www.bownds.net/uploads/xW/WS/xWWS5RE23tXxpVwiFQbtkg/jteyes-small.jpg
01:26 <@preaction> remind me to never do anything to annoy JT again
01:26 <+perlDreamer> don't call him sweetie, preaction
01:26 <@preaction> checkaroonie
01:26 <+perlDreamer> it makes his eyeballs spin in the other direction
01:26 <@rizen> oooh...and the hand tatoo http://www.bownds.net/uploads/xW/WS/xWWS5RE23tXxpVwiFQbtkg/jt_side.jpg
01:26 <+MrHairgrease> perlbot carebare is the ever cuddly rizen
01:26 < perlbot> added carebare to the database
01:26 <@preaction> rizen: LARP?
01:27 <@rizen> nope...halloween 2002
01:27 <@preaction> ah
01:27 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: LARP?
01:27 <+MrHairgrease> ha
01:27 <+perlDreamer> Los Angeles Riot Police?
01:27 <@rizen> a little less scary in 2004: http://www.bownds.net/uploads/nW/GU/nWGUUFrr4y5NA-9ko6xt4w/jt_and_sarah_as_fred_and_wilma.jpg
01:27 <@preaction> perlbot LARP is Live-Action Role Playing -- One of the last vestiges of the uber-geek.
01:27 < perlbot> added LARP to the database
01:27 <+MrHairgrease> the 2nd image does remind me of something
01:29 <@rizen> what jt would look like if he were dutch: http://www.bownds.net/uploads/K-/K4/K-K4NLygFyXYXeTJNUru3Q/PICT1224.JPG
01:29 <@preaction> rizen: so I have this fix for the EMS / gama problem. What should I do with existing shopping carts / sessions that will create problems (since they don't have matching entries in the new table)? should i just delete them? expire the session perhaps? or just leave a note in the gotchas?
01:30 <+MrHairgrease> oh man
01:30 <+MrHairgrease> i really need wooden shoes now
01:30 <@vayde> dear sweet god!
01:30 <@rizen> leave a note in the gotchas
01:30 <@preaction> k
01:30 <@rizen> and write some sort of an sql report that we can give to gama
01:30 <@rizen> so they can sort out the mess
01:32 <+MrHairgrease> ewww
01:32 <+MrHairgrease> never new ryan could be so gross
01:32 <+MrHairgrease> http://jt.plainblack.com/uploads/R3/yz/R3yzI23c8d_3a9gGj9Msmg/ryan_kristi.jpg
01:37 <+MrHairgrease> anyway
01:37 <+MrHairgrease> time for those sweet dreams
01:44 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui []
01:50 -!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@casr-dev.fwsm2ppuser.ou.edu] has left #webgui []
02:22 <@preaction> rizen: should i go ahead and install the fix for gama? or will they have to wait for 7.3.15? there's an upgrade script, so i'd think wait, but the upgrade script will still work if it just happens to be run multiple times (create table if not exists)
02:23 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat054.mxim.com] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]
02:25 <@rizen> if it will still work
02:25 <@rizen> then install it now
02:25 <@preaction> k
02:25 <@rizen> be sure to backup their database before installing
02:25 <@preaction> will do
03:49 < SDuensin> Muhahahaha - got WebGUI 7.3.14 running on my host.  So easy!
03:54 < SDuensin> Used the RHLE4 WRE.  My host is running CentOS4.  Works like a champ.
04:04 <@preaction> woohoo!
04:06 <@preaction> i'm starting to understand the Event Management System. and i feel dirty
04:07 < SDuensin> hehehe
04:07  * SDuensin feels guilty for not hosting with PB.
04:08 <@preaction> why? it's good to get more spread for webgui
04:08 <@preaction> of course, why CentOS? why not ubuntu or debian?
04:09 < SDuensin> That's what my host uses.  I have a "virtual private server".  Full root access to do whatever I want.  $60 a month.  Not bad at all.
04:09 <@preactio