--- Log opened Thu Mar 01 00:00:52 2007 00:01 <+perlDreamer> I could use a little help with a debug. Is there someone in channel with IE7 and willing to help? 00:10 <@rizen> i don't have IE 7, but i'm willing to help 00:10 <@rizen> =) 00:10 <@rizen> i can download it, but i have to leave in 10 minutes..so it will have to wait until either really late tonight or tomorrow 00:11 < pjesi> why do you need ie7? 00:12 <+perlDreamer> I was demo'ing WebGUI to a potential customer this morning with IE7 and the demo site was completely broken. 00:12 <+perlDreamer> It works fine with Mozilla. 00:12 <+perlDreamer> So I'd like a double check before submitting a bug 00:13 <@rizen> steve and frank told me they went through all of webgui and fixed everything ie7 related 00:13 < pjesi> submit the bug to microsoft 00:13 <+perlDreamer> pjesi: that's funny 00:13 < pjesi> well it is their product that is broken 00:13 <+perlDreamer> rizen: I think there are open IE7 bugs on the board 00:14 < pjesi> perlDreamer: is it specific to the demo template? 00:14 <+perlDreamer> pjesi: I don't know 00:15 <+perlDreamer> I beat a hasty retreat, blamed it on release day, and scheduled another meeting next week. 00:17 < pjesi> I have always made sure firefox is available on the presentation computer on meetings 00:17 <+perlDreamer> It was a spur of the moment thing. 00:17 <@preaction> perlDreamer: what about the demo site is broken in IE7? 00:18 <+perlDreamer> I created a demo site and tried to login as admin. 00:18 <+perlDreamer> It kicked me back to the demo create screen. 00:18 <@preaction> k, i just tried that and it worked 00:18 <@preaction> might've been a release thing, when did you do it? 00:19 <+perlDreamer> 8:45am PST 00:19 <@preaction> so 11:45a roy's time 00:19 <+perlDreamer> rizen: I was thinking of the IE6 and "IE and Firefox" bugs. IE7 is clean on the boards 00:19 <+perlDreamer> preaction: yup 00:20 <@preaction> you might've been doing it while the demo sites were being updated 00:22 <+perlDreamer> I'll bring my laptop to the next one, just in case. 01:01 <@preaction> is the empty style supposed to include and the proper head tags? 01:05 <+perlDreamer> I remember coming across that during testing. 01:05 <+perlDreamer> let me check 01:05 <@preaction> it doesn't, but is it supposed to? 01:06 <@preaction> i'm thinking no, that you use the empty style when you generate the entire html doc yourself (or RSS, or otherwise) 01:06 <+perlDreamer> or when embedding in javascript windows, ala FormHelpers 01:10 <+perlDreamer> Have you seen the bug about groupIdEventEdit? 01:11 <+perlDreamer> I think it's actually an opinion. What do you think? 01:12 <@preaction> haven't seen it 01:13 <@preaction> actually, groupIdEventEdit was set to the groupIdEdit of the Calendar 01:13 <@preaction> they can change it. that's the idea 01:14 <+perlDreamer> the bug is that it was set to 3 instead of groupIdEdit 01:14 <@preaction> wait, it's groupIdEventEdit that got changed? 01:15 <@preaction> ohhh, it's from the 7.2.3-7.3.0 upgrade 01:15 <+perlDreamer> bug already fixed? 01:16 <@preaction> no, i believe that it is explicitly set to "3", let me check 01:17 <@preaction> looks like it isn't explicitly set to anything, but defaults to "3" 01:18 <+perlDreamer> sidenote: I added a test to Style.t that explicitly checks for html, head and body tags in the empty style template. 01:18 <@preaction> one-line fix: $properties->{groupIdEventEdit} = $properties->{groupIdEdit}; # line 238 of docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.2.3-7.3.0.pl 01:18 <+perlDreamer> now it will be guaranteed to let us know it changes. 01:18 <+perlDreamer> I'll commit the fix and try to run an upgrade. 01:18 <@preaction> so it succeeds when there ISNT right? because i think i use the empty style on a bunch of ajax stuff that returns JSON 01:19 <+perlDreamer> unlike($styled, qr{(?i)}, 'useEmptyStyle does not have html, head or body tags'); 01:19 <@preaction> word 01:19 <+perlDreamer> it's a pretty simplistic check, but it gets the idea across 01:20 <@preaction> i did a lot of that sort of checking with the output of getPage 01:20 <@preaction> though i do think in the future we should make a nice getPageAsHTMLTokeParser (or something similar) that returns a proper HTML parsing object 01:21 <+perlDreamer> I noticed that you used the same IO tied variable thing that I did. It doesn't work before perl 5.8, though 01:21 <@preaction> nope 01:21 <@preaction> but webgui requires 5.8 01:21 <@preaction> before 5.8 you can use the IO::String (i think, or IO::Scalar, one or the other) 01:21 <+perlDreamer> where does it say that we require 5.8? That's new to me. 01:22 <+perlDreamer> I like it, but I was working under the assumption people would still use earlier perl's 01:22 <@preaction> http://www.plainblack.com/installing_webgui <- maybe testEnvironment.pl should "require v5.8.8" 01:24 <+perlDreamer> your 1-line fix, is that modifying an existing line or adding a line? 01:24 <@preaction> adding a line 01:24 <@preaction> should be right under a couple other $properties changes 01:25 <@preaction> er, crap 01:25 <@preaction> no, wait, that'll work 01:25 <+perlDreamer> I'll download and install a 7.2 and then try an upgrade. 01:26 <+perlDreamer> I think it will work,too, but I've been bitten too many times recently to not test anymore. 01:26 <@preaction> true nuff 01:42 <+perlDreamer> dude, you did the world a service by rewriting the calendar 01:50 <+perlDreamer> um, preaction, will it upgrade calendar with no events? 02:06 <@preaction> it should 02:11 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui 02:17 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI 02:18 < pjesi> damn head.block 02:18 < pjesi> !!! 02:20 <+perlDreamer> pjesi, if you can build a test for it that shows it's a bug, I'll fix it 02:21 < pjesi> perlDreamer: it is so nondeterministic 02:21 < pjesi> I cant figure it out 02:22 <+perlDreamer> so it's working sometimes, in some cases, but not in others? 02:23 < pjesi> yes 02:24 < pjesi> last time it didnt show at all, yesterday it was twice within , today it was once in and once in , later it was correctly only in , now it is only in body 02:25 <@preaction> same asset? which asset type? a page layout (if so, what assets does it contain?) 02:26 < pjesi> Layout.pm 02:26 < pjesi> it contains a whole site 02:27 < pjesi> sorry, it is the head block of the Layout template 02:27 <@preaction> i'm just saying, there are a lot of ways to put head tags up there, and there's one correct way. some of the assets in the Layout might be putting things up there in the wrong way 02:28 <+perlDreamer> preaction: I think he's saying he has a headblock for the layout template, and that info (not any child info) is showing up all over the place, twice or not at all 02:29 <@preaction> so in the Extra Head Tags part of the layout template, which should be put in the area that's handled by the style template? 02:30 < pjesi> sometimes the child info is displayed as well (rss link for example) 02:30 < pjesi> yes is in the Style 02:31 < pjesi> it sometimes prints them there 02:31 < pjesi> sometimes above the normal block 02:32 < pjesi> anyways, I managed to push Hinrik into fixing this 02:41 < pjesi> above normal block is at the top of 02:44 <+perlDreamer> preaction: I figured out what was going on with the upgrade. I short-circuited it and it broke the upgrade process quietly. 02:47 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has quit [""""] 03:01 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] 03:10 < pjesi> it does look like it is injected in head.tags if I am not loged in 03:22 < SDuensin> WHOO HOO! My photo gallery is (mostly) working! 03:36 -!- streamlines [n=streamli@wsip-68-110-129-224.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #webgui 03:39 < SDuensin> Anybody awake? I may be on the verge of a wiki article here. 03:43 < streamlines> I'm here, but likely to be of much use to you. 03:44 < SDuensin> Never know. I just need the name of a template variable. Can't seem to find it... 03:44 < SDuensin> I uploaded a file and changed the menu title field. When I use file.menuTitle, it's blank... 03:44 < SDuensin> If I use menuTitle by itself, I get the title of the folder the file is in. 03:45 < SDuensin> I want to get the menuTitle of the file from inside a template for the parent folder. (This is for a photo gallery.) 03:45 < SDuensin> Make sense? 03:45 < streamlines> Sorry, SDuensin, I'm just getting into WG, still readning literature and figuring stuff out. WQish I could be more helpful. 03:45 < SDuensin> Me too. :-) 03:46 < SDuensin> WebGUI rocks. It's just big. Takes awhile to find everything. 03:46 < streamlines> yup. I'm a tech, and knowenough perl, but yeah, WebGUI is BIG/ 03:47 < SDuensin> "Enough Perl" == "Live Bomb" :-) 03:48 < streamlines> that's exactly right. enuff to cause MAJOR issues. just another hacker. 03:48 < streamlines> how long you been using WG? 03:49 < SDuensin> I'm getting back into it. I used the 5.x series for a lot of sites. Had issues with 6.x and my server. Now I'm back. :-D 03:49 < streamlines> wow. where'd you go? 03:49 < SDuensin> Let me tell you... 7.x is a LOT different from 5.x. Very impressive. 03:50 < streamlines> so you coming back from PHPland? 03:50 <@preaction> SDuensin: it's possible the Image asset doesn't have a menuTitle for some reason. you might want to also try title 03:50 < SDuensin> I've run a lot of other content systems since then. Never happy with any of them. 03:50 < SDuensin> preaction - Isn't file.title the filename? 03:50 < streamlines> any perl-based? 03:50 <@preaction> durned if i know, haven't been inside the Image asset yet 03:51 < SDuensin> No, streamlines. Perl was the problem. My host didn't have hardly any modules installed and my personal server didn't have the bandwidth I needed. 03:51 < SDuensin> preaction - Let me commit my version and show you what I have. I think you'll like it. 03:51 <@preaction> Perl is too awesome for its own good 03:51 < SDuensin> preaction (and streamlines) - take a peek: http://new.duensing.com:2080/home/gallery/rylee/snow 03:51 < streamlines> ahhh....so did you eventuall change hosts? I wonder how many others have that issue a a block to using WG? 03:52 < SDuensin> New host, and more bandwidth on my personal connection. I can run from either of them now. 03:53 <@preaction> the little loading bar thingy doesn't like me :( 03:53 < SDuensin> ? 03:53 <@preaction> i click an image, and the loading bar shows up, but the image doesn't seem to load 03:54 < SDuensin> What browser? 03:54 < streamlines> I've gotta hop a firewall to get to see port 2080 too. That may be why. 03:54 <@preaction> Firefox 2.0.0.1 Intel Mac 03:54 < streamlines> that's why I still dont see anything :-). I'll fix mine. 03:54 < SDuensin> Well, hell, that's what I have. :-) 03:54 < SDuensin> Do you see the coat-of-arms above the menu? (Coat-of-arms == shield thing.) 03:55 <@preaction> i see the coat of arms, but no menu 03:55 < SDuensin> !!!! 03:55 <@preaction> i'm also a Visitor 03:55 < SDuensin> Weiiiiirrd. 03:55 <@preaction> that might be the problem 03:55 < SDuensin> Crap. Menu fixed. 03:56 < SDuensin> For some bizarre reason, it was set to "Ad Managers". 03:56 <@preaction> that happens when it's not set 03:57 < SDuensin> I bet I got a lot more screwed up then. 03:57 <@preaction> oh: to make the rows have a uniform height: surround them in a div that has a height of the maximum height of your thumbnails 03:58 < SDuensin> Yea. Any way to pull that from a variable? 03:58 <@preaction> the clicking works, it just took longer than i anticipated 03:59 <@preaction> umm.... not that i'm aware of 03:59 < SDuensin> Maybe my pipe is clogged. Dang users! 03:59 <@preaction> someone's clogging the intertubes? 03:59 < streamlines> hmm...same problem on my end. Image 10 of 16 works though. odd. I 03:59 < streamlines> noticed some did and some didn't (some == atleast one). c 04:00 * SDuensin blames his LAN. 04:00 < streamlines> clicked around more and no others workd. 04:00 < SDuensin> Only 10 worked? 04:00 < streamlines> didn't click all thumbs thoh. 04:00 < SDuensin> Nothing different about 10. 04:00 <@preaction> i got number 9 04:01 < streamlines> number 10 of 16. popped up the thingy where you can click next to nav to others. 04:01 < streamlines> Ah. so maybe his pipe really is clogged. 04:01 < streamlines> bu nav to tohers from the thingy (next / prev) didnt work either. 04:01 < SDuensin> Dunno. 04:02 < SDuensin> Sounds like clogged pipes. 04:02 <@preaction> i assume tey work, just slowly 04:02 <@preaction> is the thumbnail size a site setting? 04:02 <@preaction> imma try to make a patch 04:02 < SDuensin> For that test gallery, I didn't size those images at all. They're around 2 megapixel and the script scales 'em. 04:02 < SDuensin> I think it's a site setting. 04:03 < SDuensin> Yes. Admin->Settings->Content 04:04 <@preaction> but it can, unfortunately, be overridden per image 04:04 < SDuensin> Yea. I know. 04:04 < streamlines> you trust a script to resize on the fly? what processor---oh yseah, macintel. nevermind 04:05 < SDuensin> I don't trust it. I just know it does it. When this site goes live, I'll scale them myself. 04:05 <@preaction> it's probably just setting a width/height in the CSS 04:05 < SDuensin> That's my guess, preaction. 04:05 < streamlines> ah.. .sorr. maybe some loop in the resize script? preaction got 9 and I got 10 ok? still having trouble loading any others. 04:06 <@preaction> they just take 30 seconds about 04:06 < streamlines> preaction, you getting em all now? 04:06 <@preaction> i'm up to 11 04:06 <@preaction> 12... 04:07 < streamlines> oohhh. sorry. I need to keep quiet. and look at my other monotors every now and again. sorry again. Loading fine as you said. 04:08 < SDuensin> hehehe 04:08 < streamlines> (slink, slink). lurk lurk. 04:09 < streamlines> I'll just go read my BRAND NEW wegui primer book. Amazing how much isn't obvious. 04:09 < SDuensin> Looks like a variable won't help anyway. You can't add in a template thingie, so there's no way to include the margin. 04:09 < SDuensin> I didn't buy the primer. Got the subscription to the docs. 04:10 < streamlines> yeah, got that too. we should wiki article.... 04:11 < SDuensin> I want to wiki this gallery after I get it sorted out. 04:11 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@68.51.234.189] has joined #webgui 04:11 -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ 04:13 < streamlines> I haven't had time to get the BIG picture from the subscription. All is still a bit fuzzy to me. BEst thing in to dive in and test and hack. 04:13 < streamlines> Then feel fuzzy enough to share via wiki. 04:18 < SDuensin> Whoa. I have a template I can't edit. Every time I click "Edit" it acts like I did "View". 04:24 < SDuensin> Grrr. Tried all I can think of. Restarting WebGUI now. Hope that fixes it! 04:25 -!- [1]NetForged_Nea [n=Neal@c-24-20-104-7.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #webgui 04:28 < SDuensin> That fixed it. Weird. 04:33 < SDuensin> Ok, just need to find that template variable for the menuTitle. 04:40 < SDuensin> Anybody? Anybody? Buelher? 04:42 -!- [2]NetForged_Nea [n=Neal@c-24-20-104-7.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #webgui 04:42 -!- NetForged_Neal [n=Neal@c-24-20-104-7.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:42 -!- [2]NetForged_Nea is now known as NetForged_Neal 04:48 -!- streamlines [n=streamli@wsip-68-110-129-224.ga.at.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:58 <@preaction> SDuensin: i think menuTitle is a Wobject property, and Image is only an Asset 04:58 < SDuensin> That hurts my head. 04:58 < SDuensin> Why does it have a field for it then? 04:59 <@preaction> nm, menuTitle is in Asset 04:59 <@preaction> perhaps it's getting clobbered somehow? 04:59 -!- [1]NetForged_Nea [n=Neal@c-24-20-104-7.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:01 < SDuensin> I have no idea. It's inside a loop. 05:37 < Radix-wrk> So were PedersenMJ and my entries the only ones for the wcc - haven't seen any additions to the wiki at all :( 05:38 < SDuensin> I didn't have time to write my photo gallery entry. :-( 05:40 <@preaction> Radix-wrk: there's still 2 hours 20 minutes in the month of February ;) 05:41 < Radix-wrk> Depends what time zone you're in I guess - but even still I'd have expected people to have added something by now 05:41 <@preaction> yeah, i'm thinking no 05:42 < Radix-wrk> Just a bit sad that there was only two of us who contributed. :( 05:42 <@preaction> steve just tapped me for some perl code to add to the design for http://webgui.org, so hopefully after the split we have less people saying that WebGUI is Plain Black 05:43 < Radix-wrk> cool 05:43 <@preaction> plus as evidenced in the IRC channel, the community is re-growing 05:43 < Radix-wrk> yup.. was only two others in here when I started! :) 05:43 < Radix-wrk> and neither of them said anything! 05:44 <@preaction> yeah, back in the good ol' days 05:44 < Radix-wrk> hehe 05:44 <@preaction> well, maybe not so good 05:45 < SDuensin> I still want to write my wiki entry. Just need to figure a few more things out. 05:45 < SDuensin> Unfortunately, it's not going to happen in two hours and 15 minutes. 05:45 <@preaction> eh, i imagine it ends when Roy reads his mail in the morning, so go ahead and submit, and maybe you'll be grandfathered in 05:46 < Radix-wrk> this with the photo gallery template that rizen gave you the other day? or something new since then? 05:46 < SDuensin> I can't finish it tonight. :-/ 05:46 < SDuensin> It's built off what he gave me. 05:46 -!- patspam [n=notgiven@203-214-44-39.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #webgui 05:46 < SDuensin> http://new.duensing.com:2080/home/gallery/rylee/snow 05:46 < SDuensin> My connection seems to be slow tonight, and the images need resized. Give it time when you click on one. 05:46 <@preaction> and unfortunately, i just learned my frypan needs to warm up far more in order to cook proper stirfry 05:47 <@preaction> i blame the fact that i haven't cooked chinese in a while 05:47 < Radix-wrk> electric wok ftw! 05:48 < SDuensin> Like that gallery? 05:48 < Radix-wrk> I have a very nice, deep electric wok (2400w) that is great for instant stirfry.. heats up REAL quick and perfect for all sorts.. tis cool 05:49 <@preaction> something i might need to look into 05:49 < Radix-wrk> my stove sucks, so I tend to use the wok for all sorts of stuff.. pasta, curries, etc 05:50 < Radix-wrk> SDuensin, neat! 05:50 < Radix-wrk> Did you check out that SlideShowPro link I posted the other day? 05:50 < Radix-wrk> Kinda similar in some ways except that one is all flash. 05:50 < SDuensin> Yea. Looked cool. Didn't look free though. (I've been on a hell of an OSS kick lately.) 05:51 < Radix-wrk> nah.. definitely not free 05:51 < SDuensin> It did look good though! 05:51 < Radix-wrk> and yeah, this one looks awesome if it's free 05:51 < SDuensin> This is really easy. Just toss images into a folder asset and assign the gallery template. 05:52 < SDuensin> It's even smart enough to work out multiple galleries on one page and set up the paging for them. 05:52 < SDuensin> I just wish I knew how to get to the menuTitle field of the image assets! 05:52 < Radix-wrk> Hmm.. you know what would really rock.. a webgui object that interfaces/links to a flickr set or something as they do have a full api I'm pretty sure 05:53 < SDuensin> That wouldn't be too hard, I wouldn't think. 05:53 < SDuensin> I'm not much for hosting my content elsewhere. That's why I was looking to do it all with WebGUI. 05:57 < SDuensin> Anyway, I'll ask more weird template questions tomorrow when more people are here. 05:57 < SDuensin> Night! 05:58 < Radix-wrk> Yeah, it's hard for us aussies tho.. upload bandwidth is so limited here (1mbit max prettymuch without forking out a fortune) and it's slow for the rest of the world to boot. We can get away with hosting the images ourselves (providing they're not large ones) off our 1mbit uplink - but everything else, larger files, movies, downloads, pdfs, etc all have to go on external hosting for us or our net link is cactus 06:17 < patspam> what's the proper way to update groupIdView on an asset through the API? 06:17 <@preaction> $asset->update({ groupIdView => "newValue" }); 06:17 <@preaction> unless you want to make a new revision 06:18 < patspam> ah great, thanks 08:35 -!- patspam [n=notgiven@203-214-44-39.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 08:41 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@68.51.234.189] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:42 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:52 < Hinrik> http://paste2.org/p/1605 10:52 < Hinrik> how do I fix this? 10:52 < Hinrik> /data is a symlink to /usr/local/data btw... 10:53 < Hinrik> most non-ascii characters come out wrong 10:53 < Hinrik> this is all supposed to be set to utf8 10:54 < Hinrik> it looks right if I start the client with --default-character-set=utf8, but that should be the default... 11:04 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui 11:05 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has quit [Client Quit] 11:05 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui 14:03 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has quit ["leaving"] 14:11 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:21 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui 14:29 -!- [1]NetForged_Nea [n=Neal@c-24-20-104-7.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #webgui 14:29 -!- NetForged_Neal [n=Neal@c-24-20-104-7.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:29 -!- [1]NetForged_Nea is now known as NetForged_Neal 15:58 -!- pjesi_ [i=pjesi@klefi01.litlahraun.is] has joined #webgui 15:58 < pjesi_> hi guys 15:59 < pjesi_> I was asked to add a discussion board to the site but it doesnt show any controls 15:59 < pjesi_> so I tried the CS 16:00 < pjesi_> it doesnt generate any html 16:00 < pjesi_> any ideas? 16:01 -!- [1]NetForged_Nea [n=Neal@c-24-20-104-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #webgui 16:04 -!- wgGuest97 [n=wgGuest9@zen.ecocoms.com] has joined #webgui 16:04 -!- wgGuest97 is now known as todor_k 16:17 -!- NetForged_Neal [n=Neal@c-24-20-104-7.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:17 -!- [1]NetForged_Nea is now known as NetForged_Neal 16:20 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 16:20 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ 16:55 -!- mediak [n=rjacobse@74-129-192-43.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:12 <@snapcount> woo hoo... vpn time 17:12 <@snapcount> back later 17:17 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui 17:17 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ 17:23 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has quit ["leaving"] 17:31 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:49 < ckotil> How could i programmatically migrate Faq-o-matic entries to webgui , without writing a custom import script? 18:49 <@rizen> you realize that what you just stated is an oxymoron right? 18:49 <@rizen> how can i program without programming? 18:50 * ckotil sighs 18:50 < ckotil> yes. 18:50 <@rizen> i have one way you could do it 18:50 < ckotil> im all ears. 18:50 <@rizen> you could have someone else do the programming for you 18:50 <@rizen> that way *you* didn't do any programming 18:51 < ckotil> thats a technicality 18:51 <@rizen> it's my only suggestiong 18:51 <@rizen> minus the g 18:51 < ckotil> k. 18:51 <@rizen> does SQL count as programming? 18:51 < ckotil> yes. 18:51 <@rizen> k 18:51 <@rizen> no suggestions then 18:52 < ckotil> i might try to write something to crawl the FOM grab the text and create webgui assets 18:52 < ckotil> id rather not do this by hand. (enter all the FOM entries into wG) 18:53 <@rizen> that counts as programming 18:54 < ckotil> indeed it does. i was just asking if there were a way to do it wihtout programming 18:54 < ckotil> or if a script already existed 18:55 < ckotil> crythias uses FOM for his webgui faq 18:55 < ckotil> and theres a question. why not use webgui for the faq. 18:55 < ckotil> to which there is not a good answer. 18:55 <@rizen> he has an answer for that in his faq 18:55 < ckotil> oh, i should reread it then. 18:55 <+MrHairgrease> his provider doesn't allow webgui 18:55 < ckotil> my group just decided to give up the FOM to use webgui 18:55 < ckotil> oh :x hehe 18:56 <@rizen> that isn't the only reason 18:56 <@rizen> nor is it the reason he gives in his faq 18:56 < ckotil> so i setup the file/knowledge repository structure in webgui. 18:56 <+MrHairgrease> let me read the faq then 18:56 <@rizen> in the faq he says something like: i didn't expect to stay with webgui very long 18:56 < ckotil> i use shortcut assets in a few places for redundancy. it has come together quiet nicely, and is starting to fill up with content 18:56 < ckotil> ah. 18:57 < ckotil> navigation assets 0wn me. they are a life saver 18:59 <@rizen> nice to hear, many people say they are the bane of their existience 19:01 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:02 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui 19:02 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ 19:09 < ckotil> at first they were. 19:09 < ckotil> now i make them my bitch 19:52 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has joined #webgui 19:52 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 20:01 -!- pjesi_ [i=pjesi@klefi01.litlahraun.is] has quit ["leaving"] 20:09 <+perlDreamer> ckotil: For your FAQ-o-matic, you could HttpProxy it in, but that's a workaround 20:11 <+perlDreamer> preaction: re SDuensin's folder problems, the Folder only gives you a limited set of child Asset properties. 20:11 <+perlDreamer> It's a bummer 20:11 <@preaction> is it an RFE? i'll pump in some karma 20:12 <+perlDreamer> menuTitle is not in the list 20:12 <+perlDreamer> It would be like a 10 second hack. 20:12 <@preaction> it's easier to get the full gamut than it is to restrict :p 20:12 <+perlDreamer> well, yes and no 20:12 <+perlDreamer> $asset->get vs $asset->getTemplateVars is a whole world of difference 20:13 <@preaction> $asset->get gets menuTitle 20:14 <+perlDreamer> yes, plus it gets every base Asset property, every base Wobject property and every specific Asset/Wobject property. 20:14 <+perlDreamer> We couldn't document that in the generic way that it is now. 20:14 <@preaction> wait, there is a base WebGUI::Asset::getTemplateVars? 20:14 <+perlDreamer> no 20:14 <@preaction> ok 20:15 <+perlDreamer> yes, kind of 20:15 <+perlDreamer> every template in the end does $asset->get and appends it to the template vars passed in. 20:15 <+perlDreamer> (top-level asset template, not child level template vars) 20:16 <+perlDreamer> If every asset had a getTemplateVars, like the oh-so well designed Event and Calendar, it would make sub-classing them possible. 20:16 <+perlDreamer> and testing them easier 20:16 <+perlDreamer> and adding tertiary interfaces possible (think SOAP/WSDL, etc.) 20:16 <@preaction> true enough 20:17 <+perlDreamer> I guess what I'm saying is that we could file a bug report for the missing menuTitle and get it in now, and then talk with the big guy about larger interfaces in 7.4 20:19 <@preaction> using getTemplateVars as the way to get the base template vars of the asset that are general to every www_ method in the asset 20:19 <+perlDreamer> rizen: I need a bug consult. I fixed half of a bug but need to know how to correct things that the bug has already broken. 20:23 <+perlDreamer> preaction:are you saying every www_ method in Asset, or just in Event and Calendar? 20:25 <@preaction> i don't know. it fits for Event because of the processing involved with the dates, but for something like a Folder, $asset->get works fine 20:25 <@preaction> of course, WebGUI::Asset::getTemplateVars could just return $self->get; and let the child classes add to that 20:26 <+perlDreamer> ah, I alluded to that earlier 20:26 <+perlDreamer> ->get and -getTemplateVariables are worlds apart 20:26 <@preaction> that's what i was thinkng you were getting at 20:26 <+perlDreamer> yeah 20:26 <+perlDreamer> ->get would meet 90% of most people's needs 20:26 <+perlDreamer> but also contains yards of Asset cruft 20:27 <+perlDreamer> assetIds, templateIds, groupIds, etc. 20:27 <+perlDreamer> users will want asset names, template names and group names 20:27 <+perlDreamer> that requires getTemplateVars 20:40 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] 20:47 < ckotil> pd: ive deleted every http proxy asset on my site 20:47 < ckotil> it was causing apache to blow up. spiked the cpu and filled up the memory and swap 20:47 < ckotil> web crawlers were pulling down our rrd files 20:47 < ckotil> remember, the funky characters hitting my logs. 20:48 < ckotil> id like to go back to using http proxy asset bc its really nice to get that content inline with the rest of my site 20:56 < ckotil> What's this import script xtopher is using? 20:56 < ckotil> importing content from static sites. i might be able to use that for my FOM entries 21:07 <@rizen> pd, i'm back 21:08 <@rizen> i guess i should say perlDreamer so that it actually makes a sound for you 21:19 <+perlDreamer> I'm here 21:19 <+perlDreamer> You remember the file upload bug from 2-3 days ago? 21:19 <@rizen> i'm not 21:19 <+perlDreamer> oh 21:19 <@rizen> just kidding 21:20 <@rizen> yes 21:20 <+perlDreamer> the bug is fixed, but now people have images with no thumbnails 21:20 <+perlDreamer> should we script a solution for that? 21:20 <@rizen> there's already one 21:20 <@rizen> thumbnailer.pl comes with webgui 21:21 <@rizen> although, you could add a --flag to it 21:21 <@rizen> to only generate thumbs for images that don't have them 21:22 <+perlDreamer> the only side effect I see to that is ZipArchives may upload images, and they'd get thumbnails created in there, but that's not bad 21:22 <+perlDreamer> I'll post that as the response to the bug and add it to the gotchas 21:23 <@rizen> yeah, they'd get them, but it shouldn't affect them 21:23 <@rizen> so i think we're good 21:23 <+perlDreamer> thanks 21:23 <+perlDreamer> is there a general threshold/metric for deciding when to create scripts to fix stuff like this versus not? 21:23 <@rizen> did i do something deserving thanks? 21:23 <+perlDreamer> yes 21:24 <+perlDreamer> you decided whether this should have more work done on it 21:24 <@rizen> generally speaking we should try to fix stuff directly in the upgrade when possible and practical 21:24 <@rizen> in this case, adding the thumbnailer to the upgrade is possible but not practical 21:24 <@rizen> because it will slow down the upgrade considerably 21:25 <@rizen> and my guess is that most people don't care about the thumbnails or we would have had a lot more people raising a big stink about it 21:31 <+perlDreamer> The thumbnailer script doesn't use Getopts for command line arguments. Can I convert it to add the flag? 21:35 < ckotil> http://www.plainblack.com/uploads/3C/X7/3CX7ekuCh7O6SuhqPNj-gQ/IIPImportSites_poland_pl.txt @ $myfolder , im confused at the difference in templateId and styleTemplateId 21:35 < ckotil> at $myfolder , im confused at the difference in templateId and styleTemplateId 21:36 <+perlDreamer> templateId is whatever local/asset specific template the asset uses to display itself. The view method. 21:37 <+perlDreamer> styleTemplate is there so that when you visit an Asset directly (via its url), it gets the style template for the site. 21:37 <+perlDreamer> does that help? 21:37 < ckotil> ya , got it. thanks pd 21:40 <@rizen> pd: yes 21:40 <@rizen> that's one of the very first utility scripts i ever wrote for webgui 21:41 <@rizen> so i'm sure it could use some TLC 21:41 <@rizen> gotta reboot..brb 21:41 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] 21:44 < ckotil> pd im still confused actually... 21:44 < ckotil> im inside.. 21:44 < ckotil> my $page = $parent->addChild({ 21:44 < ckotil> className=>'WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Layout', 21:45 < ckotil> and i see 21:45 < ckotil> templateId=>"ahG2dUzE0GrK2kHWt6Qxdw", 21:45 < ckotil> styleTemplateId=>$templateID, 21:45 < ckotil> why would styleTemplateId match templateId 21:45 < ckotil> shouldnt styleTemplateId be the sites style? 21:46 < ckotil> im about to just go through with it on my dev box,a nd see what happens. ive already got a backup ready 21:47 < ckotil> oh. nvm 21:47 < ckotil> templateId must be different from $templateId 21:48 <+perlDreamer> bad variable naming convention 21:48 <+perlDreamer> it probably should have been called $styleTemplateId instead of $templateId 21:48 <+perlDreamer> One way to check it is to go find the template associated with that Id and check it's template namespace 21:49 < ckotil> ya i didnt that for article, and it checked out pbltmpl0000002. 21:51 <+perlDreamer> huh? 21:52 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 21:52 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ 21:54 < ckotil> i dunno 21:54 < ckotil> here goes nothing. 21:54 * ckotil crosses his fingers 21:55 <@rizen> cut the blue wire!!! 21:56 * perlDreamer points out that rizen is color blind 22:01 <+perlDreamer> Alas, poor ckotil. We knew him well 22:06 <@rizen> he must have died 22:06 <@rizen> not a single reply in over 10 minutes 22:08 <+perlDreamer> You sure about that blue wire? 22:12 <@rizen> hmmm...i could have been mistaken 22:12 <@rizen> it might have been the green wire 22:16 < ckotil> im just frustrated 22:17 < ckotil> im getting 'cannot open config file: at ....../WebGUI/Config.pm line 350, line 225 22:18 <+perlDreamer> the scripts usually accept a bare config file name, without path 22:18 <+perlDreamer> also check read access 22:18 < ckotil> im running as root. 22:18 < ckotil> at first i got this error... 22:18 <@rizen> and make sure you're spelling crap right 22:19 < ckotil> Couldn't parse JSON in config file '' 22:19 <@rizen> i'm a terrible typist so i always mistype 22:19 < ckotil> then i edited where it looks for the coonfig. 22:19 < ckotil> this is how it originially was. my $session = WebGUI::Session->open("../",$configFile); 22:19 < ckotil> i made it my $session = WebGUI::Session->open("../etc/",$configFile); 22:19 < ckotil> running from inside sbin 22:20 < ckotil> then i get the Config.pm error 22:20 <+perlDreamer> Session->open wants a WebGUI root directory 22:20 < ckotil> ok , so it was fine to begin with. 22:20 <+perlDreamer> I'd say the original error is true and you have bad JSON. 22:21 < ckotil> k 22:21 < ckotil> hrm, ive had this config since 6.99 22:28 <+perlDreamer> recently modified? 22:28 < ckotil> i think one my admins hacked it up a while back 22:29 < ckotil> im editing WebGUI.original.conf 22:30 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 22:30 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ 22:37 < ckotil> still couldnt parse JSON in config 22:41 <@snapcount> good lord, somehow I managed to burn this TV dinner 22:41 <@snapcount> still not too bad though... 22:46 < ckotil> hrm. my config has to be JSON 22:46 < ckotil> this script still isnt working for me. any ideas? 22:53 < ckotil> new plan of action 22:54 < ckotil> after realizing this script will not be the end all solution to my problem. i.e grab all the entries of the FOM and represent them as layouts and articles. i will instead use the fileImport script 22:54 < ckotil> and then deal with organizing hte mess of html files 22:54 < ckotil> as file assets. for now 22:57 <@preaction> snapcount: SYN? 22:57 <@snapcount> ack 23:09 < ckotil> yuck what a mess that is 23:10 -!- Vrby [n=Vrby@d11-153.rb2.lax.centurytel.net] has joined #webgui 23:11 -!- Vrby [n=Vrby@d11-153.rb2.lax.centurytel.net] has left #webgui [] 23:20 -!- snapcount_ [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 23:22 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:30 <+perlDreamer> ckotil: how about setting up a CS-based FAQ-o-matic? 23:31 <+perlDreamer> but that takes you back to the JSON stuff 23:32 <@preaction> i'm thinking that the error you're getting should have a filename in those '', otherwise i'm thinking that it's not getting the configuration filename 23:37 < ckotil> a CS-based FOM would be ideal. i think my group would go for that. 23:37 < ckotil> yah, he '' is suspect 23:37 < ckotil> s/he/the 23:38 <@preaction> Session->open($WEBGUI_ROOT, $PATH_TO_CONFIG); # $PATH_TO_CONFIG should include 'etc/' iirc. otherwise WebGUI::Session->open should probably include some more debug code for when it fatals like that 23:39 <@preaction> cannot parse JSON why? you know 23:39 < ckotil> beats me. 23:39 < ckotil> my conf is JSON. has to be. 23:39 <@preaction> check $! or $@ as appropriate 23:39 < ckotil> i even recreated it based on WebGUI.original.conf 23:40 <+perlDreamer> you don't need the ./etc 23:40 * ckotil nods 23:40 < ckotil> i removed it. 23:40 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI::Config adds is automatically 23:40 <+perlDreamer> that didn't help? 23:41 < ckotil> nope. 23:41 < ckotil> in the mean time i ran importFile.pl 23:41 < ckotil> that ran off just fine 23:45 <+perlDreamer> if you like, you can paste that part of your script for us to look at 23:47 < xdanger> my webgui installation isn't sending emails anymore... where should I start to look? 23:47 <+perlDreamer> spectre 23:47 < xdanger> it's running 23:47 <@preaction> mysql mailQueue table 23:47 < xdanger> smtp server is working 23:47 <@rizen> if you're running 7.3.10 or abovve 23:47 <@rizen> do 23:47 <@rizen> perl spectre.pl --status 23:48 <@rizen> and see if there's some stuff gummed up 23:48 <+perlDreamer> preaction: off the top of your head, do you remember the PBP for constructing booleans out of complex conditionals? 23:48 <@preaction> perlDreamer: nope 23:48 <+perlDreamer> k, thanks 23:48 < xdanger> rizen: I'm running 7.3.8 23:49 <@rizen> then do what perlDreamer suggested and look at what's in your mailQueue table 23:50 < ckotil> ill take it to the forums. 23:51 < ckotil> thanks guys 23:51 < xdanger> There's 8 mails, in the queue table... 23:52 <@rizen> and restarting spectre doesn't clear them out? 23:54 < xdanger> nope 23:55 <@rizen> then either you have some other workflow gumming up the works 23:55 <@rizen> check the running workflows screen in webgui 23:55 <@rizen> or your mail server isn't taking the mails 23:55 < xdanger> I was running spectre on --debug --run in screen... restarted that 23:55 <@rizen> check the webgui.log 23:55 < xdanger> nothing in the log 23:55 <@rizen> that's the amount of support i'm willing to give you 23:56 <+perlDreamer> rizen, that would make a great wiki article 23:56 < xdanger> There are 3-4 screens of Hourly Maintenance Tasks in showRunningWorkflows 23:56 <+perlDreamer> and would save you from asking all those questions every time to every spectre question 23:57 <@rizen> good luck with that pd 23:57 <@rizen> i don't write wiki articles 23:57 <@rizen> i write books that are for sale 23:57 <@rizen> and i have over 20 pages of troubleshooting material in that book i'm writing just on spectre --- Day changed Fri Mar 02 2007 00:02 <+perlDreamer> roger that, rizen. Maybe I'll just copy and paste the most basic stuff from the IRC logs and then teach gooeybot a new trick. 00:03 <@preaction> step 1? 00:03 < gooeybot> step 1 is Check the error logs, both WebGUI and Apache. 00:05 < xdanger> spectre debug prints something like this: WORKFLOW: Was told to wait on PihhW8apdQ7RQeke0sTwHg because we're still waiting on some external event. 00:05 < xdanger> all the time 00:06 <+perlDreamer> preaction: can a mysql select statement be constructed to do the setting of groupIdEditEvent to groupIdEdit? It would require joining the tables and doing a revision subselect? 00:06 <@rizen> have you noticed that the irc channel has pretty much killed the dev mailing list? 00:07 <+perlDreamer> devs are impatient? 00:07 <@preaction> perlDreamer: update Calendar set groupIdEditEvent=(select groupIdEdit from assetData where assetData.assetId=Calendar.assetId); # maybe? 00:07 <@preaction> oh, forgot the revision subselect as well 00:08 <@preaction> might just be easier to update the current revision using API though 00:08 <+perlDreamer> yeah 00:08 <@preaction> rizen: i was thinking about mentioning something on the dev list about it, IRC is easier 00:09 <@preaction> and surprisingly it's populated almost 24/7, thanks to our aussie and euro cohorts 00:09 <@rizen> yeah, but it's also realtime 00:09 <@preaction> if someone's active ;) 00:09 <@rizen> which is a gift and a curse 00:11 <+perlDreamer> what's the curse part? 00:11 <+perlDreamer> not being able to queue up and respond to stuff? 00:12 <@rizen> the curse part is you have to be here to participate 00:12 <@rizen> technically you could read the logs...but unless you're dedicated you won't do that 00:13 <@rizen> the dev mailing list is organized by threads 00:13 <@rizen> and it's not real time 00:13 <@rizen> so you can participate in the discussion on your own time 00:13 <@rizen> and only follow the threads that are interesting to you 00:13 <@rizen> if you're not here and you read the logs 00:13 <@rizen> and then respond 2 days later 00:13 <@rizen> nobody will know what you're talking about 00:14 < xdanger> WORKFLOW: Total workflows waiting to run: 720 00:14 <@rizen> on the dev mailing list...everyone knows 00:14 < xdanger> The number isn't going down.. 00:14 <@rizen> there's your problem xdanger...you have a clog 00:14 <@rizen> if you upgrade to 7.3.10+, the ones that can run will 00:14 <@rizen> and the others will be left 00:14 <@rizen> thusly explaining where your clog is 00:14 < xdanger> ok 00:14 < xdanger> great 00:15 < xdanger> Don't have the time to upgrade right now, but will do that tommorrow... 00:15 <@rizen> that's the beauty of the new queuing system in 7.3.10...it can't get clogged 00:15 <+perlDreamer> you can call it DRAINO 00:15 < xdanger> that good =) 00:15 <@rizen> you can have stuff that doesn't work...but everything else continues working 00:15 <@rizen> and you can then just fix the problem children 00:16 <@rizen> pd: why didn't you come up with that when we were talking about it before? 00:16 <@rizen> i could have named it DRAINO 00:16 <@rizen> heeh 00:17 <+perlDreamer> Dynamic Reallocation of Asynchronous INternet Objects 00:17 <@rizen> nope 00:18 <+perlDreamer> time to test thumbnailer 2.0 00:18 <@rizen> that doesn't make any sense 00:18 <@rizen> ooooooh 00:18 <@rizen> thumbnailer 2.0 00:18 <@rizen> that's my favorite 00:18 <@rizen> did you upgrade it to use File::Find 00:18 <@rizen> cuz i should have done that long ago 00:18 <+perlDreamer> yes 00:18 <+perlDreamer> want a preview? 00:18 <+perlDreamer> gooeybot pastebin? 00:18 < gooeybot> pastebin is http://pastebin.ca 00:18 <@rizen> just check it in 00:19 <@rizen> then i'll have a preview 00:19 <+perlDreamer> it's in 00:19 <+perlDreamer> and untested 00:20 <+perlDreamer> 00:20 <@preaction> Dynamic Running of Asychronous INdependant Outcomes 00:20 <@preaction> we need an acrobot in here 00:23 <+perlDreamer> what do you know? the thing worked the first time! 00:23 <+perlDreamer> 00:25 <@rizen> looks good 00:25 <@rizen> ooh 00:25 <@rizen> nevermind 00:25 <@rizen> it's crap 00:25 <@rizen> it doesn't have the standard --help option 00:25 <@rizen> that all other utils do 00:26 <+perlDreamer> --help it is 00:35 <+perlDreamer> -2 bugs 00:46 <+perlDreamer> Is the clipboard now shared by default? 00:52 <@rizen> shared? 00:52 <@rizen> you mean between users? 00:53 <+perlDreamer> yes 00:53 <@rizen> no 00:53 <@rizen> each user has their own clipboard 00:54 <+perlDreamer> I'm looking at susanb's clipboard bug. She cut something from a page and then deleted the page. Since the parentId points to the page, the clipboard item got deleted, too. 00:54 <+perlDreamer> Is that fixable? 00:54 <+perlDreamer> We'd need some "safe" clipboard parent/folder thingy 00:55 <@rizen> that's not fixable 00:55 <@rizen> it's a side effect of the way clipboard is done these days 00:55 <@rizen> the old way was that we moved it to a "clipboard" node 00:56 <@rizen> but in that way, it was impossible to truely "restore" it back to where it was 00:56 <@rizen> so with the asset tree, it's left in place and just marked as clipped 00:56 <@rizen> but that means if it's parent goes away so does it 00:56 <@rizen> which is actually how all operating system filesystems work too 00:56 <@rizen> if you "copy" a file 00:57 <@rizen> and then delete the folder the file belongs to 00:57 <@rizen> and then try to "paste" the file 00:57 <@rizen> you can't do it 00:57 <+perlDreamer> okay, I'll look to see if we can add something to the docs and then close the bug 00:57 < Radix_> can't remove the item from the trash? 00:58 <@rizen> huh? 00:58 <+perlDreamer> Radix_: clipboard, not trash 00:58 <+perlDreamer> although you can't restore from the clipboard either, can you? 00:58 <@rizen> yes you can 00:58 < Radix_> "She cut something from a page and then deleted the page." 00:58 < Radix_> so undelete the page, then it would come back, no? 00:59 <@rizen> Admin Console > Clipboard > Restore 00:59 <@rizen> yes, if she were to restore from trash, the page would come back into existence 00:59 <@rizen> but it would no longer be in the clipboard 00:59 <@rizen> it would be out onthe page 00:59 <@rizen> because she performed a "restore" operation to get it back 00:59 < Radix_> Ahh k.. clipped flag gets reset 00:59 <@rizen> and "restore" republishes 01:00 <+perlDreamer> ah, I see now 01:00 <@rizen> oh and pd 01:00 <+perlDreamer> sir? 01:01 <@rizen> if you try to paste an asset back to the page it was already on..it does a restore operation rather than a paste 01:01 <@rizen> because it's more efficient, and more likely what the user intended 01:01 <@rizen> so that's a shortcut to restore 01:01 <+perlDreamer> I also found out that you can restore an asset copied to the clipboard, which duplicates it on the page where it was copied from. 01:02 <@rizen> right 01:02 <@rizen> because the copy operation works like this: 01:02 <@rizen> 1) duplicate 01:02 <@rizen> 2) cut 01:02 <@rizen> therefore even though you didn't see it, for a split second it was on the page 01:02 <@rizen> =) 01:03 <+perlDreamer> sounds like we need a Clipboard, Using help entry 01:04 <@rizen> probably a wiki page rather than a help page 01:04 <+perlDreamer> why? 01:04 <@rizen> cuz it's more tutorial and less reference 01:04 <@rizen> and the help is a big bloated pile 01:04 <@rizen> already 01:05 <@rizen> and the more shit you keep adding to the help 01:05 <@rizen> the more memory webgui uses 01:05 <@rizen> i'm starting to formulate a plan about it actually 01:05 <@rizen> and that is that the only thing that should go into help 01:05 <@rizen> is stuff that is version specific 01:05 <@rizen> like fields and template variables 01:05 <@rizen> everything else should be linked out to the wiki 01:06 <+perlDreamer> between hoverHelp and the upcoming template variable manager, maybe we wouldn't even need online help. 01:07 <+perlDreamer> just a link to the Wiki 01:07 <@rizen> actually, that's a good point 01:07 <@rizen> and it also solves the searchability problem 01:07 <@rizen> cuz the wiki is searchable 01:07 <@rizen> and will be taggable 01:08 <@rizen> and it makes it far easier for translators 01:08 <@rizen> cuz they don't have to translate all the help in order to make a translation for webgui 01:08 <@rizen> just the stuff that matters 01:08 <+perlDreamer> we wouldn't have any translated docs for wiki entries, though 01:09 <@rizen> it's not like we do now anyway 01:09 <+perlDreamer> no 01:09 <@rizen> we don't have any real translations 01:09 <+perlDreamer> really? 01:09 <+perlDreamer> I've never looked at them 01:09 <@rizen> and on top of that, if someone wants that they can start a wiki on one of the other webgui worldwide sites 01:09 <@rizen> nobody has really translated webgui since 5.x 01:10 <@rizen> the dutch team is supposedly almost finished with a webgui 7 translation 01:10 <@rizen> but i haven't seen it 01:10 <@rizen> the more we can remove from help, the better as a far as webgui's memory usage goes 01:11 <+perlDreamer> yes 01:11 <@rizen> and like i said, since wiki is searchable, it's better for the user as well 01:11 <+perlDreamer> is the help->wiki transition scheduled, or just a generic RFE? 01:12 <@rizen> it's just one of my rough ideas 01:12 <+perlDreamer> I'll stop blowing in more information, except for fields and template variables then. 01:12 <@rizen> it's not officially an rfe or on the scheudle 01:12 <@rizen> but maybe we should do it for 7.4 as we do the template variable translation 01:13 <@rizen> from foo.bar to foo_bar 01:13 -!- preaction_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 01:13 <@rizen> we'll be in there doing major revamp anyway 01:13 <+perlDreamer> as long as we can cut and paste from the online help to the wiki and it's fast, it shouldn't be too much work 01:13 <@rizen> might as well take care of both 01:13 <@rizen> yup 01:13 <+perlDreamer> the downside is that I can't write wiki articles 01:13 <@rizen> you can't? 01:14 <@rizen> why not? 01:14 <@rizen> for the same reason as me? 01:14 <+perlDreamer> not at $dayJob. Old Mozilla doesn't work with YUI tabs 01:14 <@rizen> oh 01:14 <@rizen> that's no bother 01:14 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 01:14 -!- preaction_ is now known as preaction 01:14 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 01:14 <@rizen> i actually can assign a pb staffer to do it 01:14 <@rizen> the copy paste job i mean 01:14 <@rizen> it certainly shouldn't be you doing it 01:14 <@rizen> or me for that matter 01:15 <@rizen> we have more important fish to fry 01:15 <+perlDreamer> why not? I'm a volunteer. I'm cheap. 01:15 <@preaction> rizen: last i heard, the dutch team had a translation of 7.2.3 01:15 <@rizen> you're a highly skilled and talented volunteer 01:15 <@rizen> and therefore not cheap 01:15 <@rizen> time is just as valuable as money 01:15 <@preaction> we need to keep you happy, and we can't use money to do it 01:15 <@rizen> and i have a data entry person on staff 01:16 <@rizen> so she can do it 01:17 <@rizen> i just sent her an email about it. she's out sick this week, so i'll get her started on it next week 01:18 <@rizen> pd: the tabs are supposed to degrade gracefully 01:18 <@rizen> what do you see? 01:18 <+perlDreamer> I see all 3 tabs, but I can't flip between them. 01:18 <+perlDreamer> I only get the view tab 01:19 <@rizen> ah. therein lies the problem 01:20 <@rizen> it's not that you don't have css/javascript capability 01:20 <@rizen> it's that you have a crappy implmeentation of both 01:20 <+perlDreamer> right 01:20 <+perlDreamer> Mozilla 1.4 01:20 -!- Hinrik_ [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 01:21 <+perlDreamer> as she does the copy and paste, if she lets me know I can start pulling the articles out of the help as well 01:21 <+perlDreamer> and all links to it 01:23 <@rizen> we can just do that when she's done 01:23 <@rizen> and then the help icon in webgui will just link directly to http://wiki.webgui.org/ 01:23 <+perlDreamer> Do you know Isaac's last name and company so I can give him credit in the changelog for a bug with patch? 01:24 <@rizen> nope 01:28 <+perlDreamer> the only thing the help will need to do is do inheritance for fields and template variables. 01:30 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@143.sub-75-206-207.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI 01:32 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin: Still looking for help on folder template variables? 01:32 < SDuensin> Yea! 01:32 <+perlDreamer> preaction and I had a long talk about it this morning 01:32 * SDuensin has a broken network at the moment. Storms knocked it out. 01:32 < SDuensin> Oh? 01:33 <+perlDreamer> menuTitle is not an available template variable in the folder. 01:33 <+perlDreamer> http://www.plainblack.com/?op=viewHelp;hid=folder%20template;namespace=Asset_Folder 01:33 < SDuensin> Loding 01:33 < SDuensin> Loading, too. 01:33 <+perlDreamer> Here's our suggestion 01:34 <+perlDreamer> 1) File a bug for the missing menuTitle template var. 01:34 <+perlDreamer> that can be fixed quickly 01:34 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:34 <+perlDreamer> 2) Submit an RFE to review which template vars are provided for each Asset in the folder. 01:35 < SDuensin> Awesome. :-) Thanks! 01:35 <+perlDreamer> It could do something like a $asset->get(), which would populate all the asset variables 01:35 < SDuensin> I can't even get to my WebGUI install with my net down. :-( 01:35 <+perlDreamer> rizen can weigh in on the cost/side effects and give us a good permanent solution 01:36 <@rizen> rizen is not here right now. if you would like to leave a message for rizen, leave it after the beep. 01:36 <@rizen> BEEP 01:36 < SDuensin> :-P 01:36 <+perlDreamer> rizen: would rizen have a cow if inside the Folder file_loop it did $asset->get instead of assigning a subset of template variables? 01:36 <+perlDreamer> it would make the template variables big 01:37 < SDuensin> Big, schmig. RAM is cheap. :-) 01:37 <+perlDreamer> but potentially very handy 01:37 <+perlDreamer> Big = Slow = fewer pages/second 01:37 <@rizen> instead? 01:37 <@rizen> care to restate that 01:37 <+perlDreamer> right now it cherry picks asset variables 01:38 <@rizen> look agai 01:38 <@rizen> again 01:38 <+perlDreamer> inside the file_loop, there's getId, canView, getIcon, getName, getUrl, etc... 01:38 <@rizen> it cherry picks variable. not variables 01:38 <@rizen> the other things are method calls 01:38 <@rizen> therefore, instead = no 01:39 <+perlDreamer> in addition to? 01:39 <@rizen> in addition or as a base, sure 01:39 <+perlDreamer> cool! 01:39 <+perlDreamer> 7.4-ish or 7.3.12-ish? 01:39 < SDuensin> :-) 01:40 <+perlDreamer> wait a second 01:40 <+perlDreamer> this will never work with the template variable editor 01:40 < SDuensin> rizen, I'm expanding the template you gave me into a nice gallery. I want the menuTitle of the images to use as a long description while keeping their filename in the title. 01:41 <+perlDreamer> SDuensin: use the synopsis instead 01:41 <@rizen> pd is right 01:41 < SDuensin> That's what I was thinking after reading the help URL you posted, perlDreamer . 01:42 <+perlDreamer> rizen: you're right. 01:42 <+perlDreamer> the current help system is completely broken 01:42 < SDuensin> Dunno why I couldn't find that help the other night. Looked all over the place. 01:43 <+perlDreamer> in that case, let's put the brakes on the whole concept of altering folder template variables 01:44 < SDuensin> Yea. Synopsis works for me. 01:44 * SDuensin wants his net fixed so he can finish the gallery! 01:44 * SDuensin is going to eat. Thanks again! 01:44 <+perlDreamer> That's why they pay me the big bucks 01:45 < SDuensin> heheh 01:45 <+perlDreamer> besides, it was rizen who put our heads on right 01:46 <@rizen> the folder asset rocks 01:46 <@rizen> that's why we're doing a whole talk on just that at the wuc 01:46 <+perlDreamer> are you covering folder podcasting? 01:47 <@rizen> i don't know exactly what all will be covered 01:47 <@rizen> lots of cool stuff 01:49 <@rizen> steve won't have his outline done until april 01:57 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui 02:01 <+perlDreamer> --bug 02:02 <+perlDreamer> xtopher has been busy today 02:04 <+perlDreamer> --bug 02:13 < Radix-wrk> in the asset view, with the More->Revisions option. If you delete those revisions is that for ONLY that object, or all items in that revision history? 02:16 -!- TheSeparator [i=Seppie@213.51.36.23] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:17 <@preaction> just that asset 02:17 <@preaction> it's probably just delete from assetData, where revisionDate = ? 02:17 <@preaction> (or similar, not exact) 02:17 < Radix-wrk> that's what I thought, but wanted to make sure - never used it before :) 02:18 < Radix-wrk> just answering a question on the forums 02:18 < Radix-wrk> http://www.plainblack.com/etcetera/overwritting-images-in-the-assets-bin 02:19 <@preaction> ah 02:19 < Radix-wrk> wanted to make sure that I was right in my assumptions :) 02:20 < Radix-wrk> If I'm not, I'll blame you now.. it's cool :) 02:20 < Radix-wrk> hehe 02:20 <@preaction> i can be the pariah! 02:45 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has quit [""""] 04:05 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui 04:05 -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ 04:31 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui 04:32 < PedersenMJ> good 04:39 -!- NetForged_Neal [n=Neal@c-24-20-104-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Try something fresh"] 04:49 < Radix-wrk> yo 04:56 < PedersenMJ> How goes it? 04:57 <@rizen> the first of the three books is done 04:57 <@rizen> 400 pages later 04:57 <@rizen> have some formatting to do, and then it will be available for purchase 04:58 < PedersenMJ> Sweet. Which one is it that's done? 04:58 <@rizen> the content managers guide 04:58 <@rizen> i'm 1/3 of the way through the admins guide 04:59 < PedersenMJ> Hard for me to decide which of those two I'd be more interested in buying. Will buy both, most likely. 04:59 <@rizen> there's also the designer's guide 05:00 <@rizen> but that's going to be the last one out 05:00 <@rizen> lots of code examples to generate for that one 05:00 <@rizen> so it takes the longest 05:00 <@rizen> oh...and don't you have WebGUI Done Right 05:00 <@rizen> ?? 05:01 <@rizen> cuz i think we're going to offer coupons to WDR subscribers to get two of the 4 books we have for free if you have 6mo left on your WDR contract 05:02 <@rizen> don't quote me on that though...cuz it hasn't been decided for sure 05:02 < PedersenMJ> I do have that subscription, yeah. 05:02 < PedersenMJ> That would be cool, since I only got that this past Dec. 05:03 < PedersenMJ> Sorry for my idleness, doing banking tonight (yay. paying bills is fun! :p 05:27 <@preaction> gooeybot, smart questions is http://www.mikeash.com/getting_answers.html or http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html 05:27 < gooeybot> OK, preaction. 05:54 <+crythias> gooeybot, gerald is fired. 05:54 < gooeybot> OK, crythias. 05:54 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui 05:54 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 05:54 <+crythias> gerald? 05:54 < gooeybot> gerald is fired. 05:54 <+perlDreamer> oh dear 05:55 * PedersenMJ ponders doing the "smart question" version of "who is Gerald?", but realizes he'd spend an awful lot of time on prepping that question, and is just too impatient. So, who is gerald? 05:55 <+crythias> gooeybot, pi is 3.1415926535 (at least) 05:55 < gooeybot> OK, crythias. 05:55 <+perlDreamer> gerald == crythias 05:56 < PedersenMJ> Crythias: Am hoping you're not saying you're now jobless? 05:56 * PedersenMJ is dense, yes. 05:56 <+perlDreamer> crythias, don't you mean 3.1415926535 +/- 1.0 ? 05:56 <+crythias> oh, no. just relaying rizen's viewpoint. 05:56 < PedersenMJ> gooeybot, perlDreamer is the Indiana State Legislature. 05:56 < gooeybot> ...but perldreamer is bug empowered... 05:56 <+crythias> never ask a question you don't already know the answer to. 05:57 <+crythias> perldreamer: pi is never less than 3, even for very small values of pi. 05:57 <+perlDreamer> now, if only I was bug sponsored... 05:58 <+crythias> now, if only I were more creative in a website... 05:58 <+crythias> design is for pansies. 05:58 <+crythias> erm. oops 05:59 <+crythias> I meant to say, design is for people who have time to make things purty. 05:59 <@rizen> so i just demo'd drupal for the first time 05:59 <+perlDreamer> what did you think? 05:59 <@rizen> and i have to say...it was pretty cool 05:59 <@rizen> someone told me today that drupal was twice as powerful as webgui 05:59 <@rizen> so i had to see for myself 05:59 <+perlDreamer> any lessons we can learn from them? 05:59 <@rizen> if you define power as flexibility...drupal is 1/1000 as powerful as webgui 06:00 <@rizen> if you define power as easy to use then drupal is 1:1 as powerful as webgui 06:00 <@rizen> if you define power as number of features then drupal is 1/100 as powerful as webgui 06:00 <@rizen> BUT 06:00 <+crythias> I love the new cms's coming out : it can do anything you want to do ... as long as you do it. 06:00 <@rizen> if you define power as how quickly you can build your first site without knowing anything, then drupal is 10/1 as powerful as webgui 06:01 <@rizen> which makes me think....we have a weakness 06:01 <@rizen> and it needs to be corrected in 7.4 06:01 < PedersenMJ> Well, to be fair, JT, with that as your yardstick, raw HTML is about 10/1 as powerful as WebGUI. Unless you count interactivity in that list. 06:02 <+perlDreamer> how do we do that? 06:02 <@rizen> bring back an old idea that i had 06:02 <@rizen> but never implemented 06:02 <@rizen> that is 06:03 <@rizen> at the end of the little startup session (asks you your user/pass/email etc) 06:03 <@rizen> we ask the user if they wish to use the new site guided setup 06:03 <@rizen> if they say yes 06:03 <@rizen> then we lead them through a wizard 06:03 <@rizen> it asks them if they want a contact form 06:04 <@rizen> and if so, we add a page with a dataform asset preconfigured on their site 06:04 <@rizen> it asks them if they want forums...if so we put a message board up with a common list of forums in it 06:04 <@rizen> we ask them more about their organization...they provide a paragraph and a logo 06:04 <@rizen> and we create an about us page 06:04 <@rizen> we also hold on to that logo 06:05 <@rizen> because as part of this process 06:05 <+perlDreamer> like the style wizard on steroids 06:05 <@rizen> we give them a little design wizard 06:05 <@rizen> that will help them either pick a predesigned style 06:05 <@rizen> or make one from scratch 06:05 <@rizen> whatever we decide is easiest 06:05 <@rizen> but when they hit "save" for the last time 06:05 <@rizen> they have a fully built site 06:06 <@rizen> without using the regular webgui UI 06:06 <@rizen> and the key here is, that now that they have something familiar to them 06:06 <@rizen> they'll be able to play around with that 06:06 <@rizen> and learn how the regular ui works 06:06 <@rizen> because editng an existng asset 06:06 <@rizen> is far less scary 06:06 <@rizen> than adding a new one for the first time 06:07 <@rizen> everybody agree with the plan? 06:07 <@rizen> and dissenters? 06:07 <@rizen> any changes or additions? 06:07 <+crythias> gerald? 06:07 < gooeybot> gerald is fired. 06:07 <@rizen> gooeybot forget gerald 06:07 < gooeybot> rizen: I forgot gerald 06:07 <@rizen> now he's not fired anymore 06:08 <+crythias> ok... now'm simply forgotten *sniff* 06:08 <+crythias> :) 06:08 <+crythias> anyway, sure, good idea. 06:08 <@rizen> gooeybot, gerald is faq-o-licious 06:08 < gooeybot> OK, rizen. 06:08 <+crythias> faq me? 06:09 <@rizen> no feedback at all from anybody 06:09 <@rizen> except gerald 06:09 <@rizen> who seems pretty ho-hum about it 06:10 <@rizen> gooeybot, everyone is asleep 06:10 < gooeybot> ...but everyone is supposed to think i'm the jackass that shoots everyone's ideas down... 06:10 <@rizen> goeybot forget everyone 06:10 <@rizen> gooeybot, forget everyone 06:10 < gooeybot> rizen: I forgot everyone 06:10 <@rizen> goeybot, everyone is asleep 06:10 < PedersenMJ> Actually, it *is* a good idea. 06:11 <@rizen> gooeybot, everyone is asleep 06:11 < gooeybot> OK, rizen. 06:11 <+perlDreamer> hang on, preparing to nuke the site from orbit 06:11 * crythias smiles just like Might Guy of Naruto... 06:11 < PedersenMJ> Here's my one negative thought about it, though: How is it actually different from what exists right now? 06:12 <@rizen> there's no guided setup to webgui at all right now...you get stuck with a bunch of demo pages that you have no relatonship with 06:12 <+crythias> it allows people to kinda start with "their stuff" rather than "pb's stuff" 06:12 < PedersenMJ> What you actually get right now is a fully functioning website. The only real differences (that I can see from my pov) is that you might add the first few assets for them. 06:12 <@rizen> when the guided setup is over, you'll have a functioning site that is all your content 06:12 <+perlDreamer> well, not all but enough to see where to go from there. 06:13 <@rizen> ok..granted 06:13 <@rizen> but the key here is that it's a siite they can relate to 06:13 <@rizen> not just a bunch of demo content from us 06:13 <+perlDreamer> that's good 06:13 <@rizen> it's got a working style that has their logo in it 06:13 <@rizen> it's got the default pages that they want to have 06:13 < PedersenMJ> Okay, that makes sense. That's the major difference that wasn't clicking for me. 06:14 <@rizen> basically.. the goal is that within 10 minutes 06:14 <@rizen> they should be able to turn on the site and say, hey visitors, look at me, i'm on the web 06:15 <@preaction> can we add an option for a "blank" site as well? that just the import node and the bare minimum of required stuff (and doesnt' create that demo content?) 06:16 < PedersenMJ> Yes, please do! 06:16 <@rizen> i don't think that would be a good idea 06:16 <@preaction> i mean, if we're going that way, may as well go the full nines 06:16 <@rizen> no...that's going the opposite direction 06:16 <@rizen> the only people that will want that are people that already know what they're doing in webgui 06:16 <@rizen> and those people can just as easily delete the existing content 06:17 <@rizen> noob users should never have that option shown to them 06:17 < PedersenMJ> But, it would be nice to be able to have an empty slate right from the start. 06:17 <@rizen> why? 06:17 <@preaction> true, a luser will select it and wonder wtf 06:17 <@rizen> first of all...how fucking lazy are you that you can't spend the 30 seconds to delete the default content 06:18 < PedersenMJ> I work on computers. That right there makes me lazy to some degree. 06:18 <@rizen> and secondly, what does it get you? really...what? 06:18 < PedersenMJ> Nothing other than convenience factor. 06:18 <@rizen> no...what convenience? 06:18 <@rizen> what convenience does it give you? 06:18 < PedersenMJ> The convenience of not having to delete the page layouts and then create new. 06:19 <@rizen> really? are you sure that's what it gives you? 06:19 <@rizen> what it really gives you is extra setup time 06:19 <@rizen> because now you have to create a home page 06:19 <@rizen> and then go into the settings and set it as a home page 06:19 <@rizen> cuz you won't even have a home page under your plan 06:19 <@preaction> the layout itself is there, just no content, no subpages, nothing else, at least that's what i was figuring 06:19 <+perlDreamer> does drupal have a guided installer like this? What makes it easier to do an initial setup 06:20 < PedersenMJ> Unless what is actually installed is just a blank home page. 06:20 <@rizen> drupal has no guided setup...what it has though is no flexibility 06:20 <@rizen> and that's why it's easy to get started 06:20 < Radix-wrk> I have to agree with PedersenMJ - it would be nice to have a blank slate as an option - I think a basic home page with no pictures/articles/etc would be nice. 06:20 <@rizen> let's get it straight: i said no 06:21 < Radix-wrk> Just my 2c 06:21 <@rizen> the whole point of this discussion is to help out noobs 06:21 <@rizen> even having that option available will fuck up noobs 06:21 <@rizen> you can take the 30 seconds to delete the default content 06:21 < PedersenMJ> Actually, it's possible to abuse that option, go through the guided setup, and keep selecting "Nope, don't want that", which will give pretty close to the same result. 06:22 <@rizen> i know you guys have to think about yourself 06:22 <@preaction> PedersenMJ: can't protect against that much stupidity 06:22 <@rizen> but i have to think about the community at large 06:22 <@rizen> and that does not help the community at large 06:22 <@rizen> the number of potential new users is far greater than the number of existing users who are creating a second site 06:23 <@rizen> perlDreamer: back to you 06:23 <@rizen> no guided setup 06:23 <@rizen> but due to lack of flexibility 06:23 <@rizen> it's easy to get started 06:23 < PedersenMJ> Nope, not trying to protect against stupidity. Trying to say that, within JT's idea, it's possible to get pretty close to what I was asking for. 06:23 <@rizen> you go to content creation 06:23 <@rizen> and type in the names of the forums you want to create 06:23 < PedersenMJ> So, for me, it works, and I'll let it go at that :) 06:23 <@rizen> you don't get to place them 06:23 <@rizen> you don't get to choose templates 06:24 <@rizen> you just get to pick name 06:24 <@rizen> s 06:24 <@rizen> and whether or not users have to preview or if it's options 06:24 <@rizen> optional 06:24 < Radix-wrk> The full gui editor stuff sounds great, but a simpler option would be to simply have several different styles come with the distribution and an extra step to let them pick the theme (which would update dynamically or something as they looked at each one. 06:24 <@rizen> then you move on to polls and do the same thing 06:24 <@rizen> and finally you move on to site creation 06:24 <@rizen> and there you type what you want to appear in your menus 06:24 <@rizen> and if you want your menu on the left side or the right side 06:25 <@rizen> and pick from these four style templates 06:25 <@rizen> and choose the colors of them 06:25 <@rizen> and upload your logo 06:25 <@rizen> done 06:25 <@rizen> it's not a guided process 06:25 <@rizen> but what it is, is so inflexible..that it might as well be a guided process 06:26 <@rizen> the difference is that webgui will give you the easy guided process at the beginning 06:26 <@rizen> but then once you figure out what you're doing 06:26 <@rizen> it will also give you all the flexibility and power you could hope for 06:27 <@rizen> radix: as stated above, that was one of the options 06:27 <@rizen> design one or pick one 06:27 < PedersenMJ> Suggestion to go with it? Allow them to choose to import one right then? 06:28 < PedersenMJ> They might well have found an existing .wgpkg which gives them the look they want. Let them import it and choose it. 06:29 <@rizen> PedersonMJ: that's a good idea 06:29 <@rizen> probably just point them straight to the contrbs area 06:29 <@rizen> give them a url 06:29 <@rizen> and say...go pick one 06:29 <@rizen> and upload it 06:29 <@rizen> the shitty part about that though is...no way to put their logo into it 06:30 < PedersenMJ> Well, maybe... 06:30 <@rizen> but maybe if they upload one...we just warn them that they have to put their own logo in 06:30 <@rizen> and if they design one they get it put in automatically 06:30 <+perlDreamer> could we have packages that refer to the uploaded logo instead of one included in the package? 06:30 <+perlDreamer> the logo would have to be restricted to certain sizes/aspects... 06:30 <+perlDreamer> eh 06:30 < PedersenMJ> No *guaranteed* way to put it in. But come up with a simple standard: any theme should include a logo.png (or .jpg, or .gif), and *that* file can be replaced? 06:31 <+perlDreamer> we know the name, it just has to referenced via a macro in the package 06:31 <@rizen> we could request that users upload packages that have logo.png as part of it 06:31 <@rizen> and then just replace it 06:31 <@rizen> yeah pederson 06:31 < PedersenMJ> Any package which honors that standard gets an extra special graphic next to it, or somesuch, so that newbies know this one will work for them. 06:32 < Radix-wrk> it'd be nice to have a standard location in the asset tree for themes too actually 06:32 <@rizen> there is one 06:32 <@rizen> it's called the import node 06:32 <@rizen> =) 06:32 < Radix-wrk> the import node is a mess 06:32 <@rizen> the media folder is where you upload all your content images and files 06:32 <+perlDreamer> the logo can have any name, when we upload we'll assign it a URL and refer to it via an assetproxy macro. 06:32 <@rizen> and the import node is for templates and such 06:33 <@rizen> right pd...as long as the theme designers use the strict name...it doesn't matter what the user calls the image...or for that matter even if it's a jpg, png, or gif 06:33 <@rizen> we can convert it 06:33 < PedersenMJ> yeah, perlDreamer, I like that. A macro which spits out the img tag for the logo. Could even use ImageMagick to resize the logo if necessary. 06:33 <+perlDreamer> PMJ: that macro is the assetproxy macro 06:34 <+perlDreamer> we ask them for it, upload it, stuff it into an asset with known URL which is used by a special subset of packages 06:35 < PedersenMJ> True. What asset should a theme designer use to reference it? 06:35 <+perlDreamer> /company_logo ? 06:35 <@rizen> radix: i don't disagree that it's a mess...especially if you've gone through a lot of uploads...but i don't know what to do to make it better either 06:35 <+perlDreamer> we can set the standard to be anything which doesn't inconvenience the user 06:35 < Radix-wrk> me neither unfortunately :) 06:36 < Radix-wrk> but I find it hard to find templates these days.. with the large number of folders it might be.. search is the only option 06:36 <@rizen> s/uploads/upgrades/ 06:36 <+perlDreamer> the asset manager search makes the import node acceptable 06:36 <@rizen> yeah...but you have search 06:36 <@rizen> that's the key 06:36 < PedersenMJ> Well, for my own purposes, I use a "Themes" folder where I put my templates and the like, and hang that off of root. 06:36 <@rizen> and you also have the asset interface which allows you to edit/manage the templates 06:36 <@rizen> so you don't have to necessarily know where they are 06:37 <@rizen> i mean on the display tab 06:37 <@rizen> the edit/manage buttons next to each template 06:37 < Radix-wrk> I think styles should be standardized on what PedersenMJ has been doing. images/css/js/etc should all be in one place in one directory in the asset tree 06:37 < Radix-wrk> so if you import a package, you know where it's going to be, and you can delete it if you no longer want it and be assured that it'll all be cleaned up 06:37 <+perlDreamer> we're kind of wandering here, guys. 06:38 <+perlDreamer> Issue #1 is the auto-setup idea 06:38 <+perlDreamer> If we like it, we can banter implementation later 06:38 <+perlDreamer> but rizen is asking whether we think it's good or not, not how to do it. 06:38 <+perlDreamer> we can tell him that later :) 06:38 <@rizen> first: do we agree that this is even a problem? 06:38 < PedersenMJ> Definitely wandering, definitely. Sorry about that. Is the idea good? Absolutely. 06:38 <@rizen> the setup time 06:38 < PedersenMJ> Is it a problem? Allow me to say "hell yes!" 06:38 <@rizen> the where do i get started factor 06:38 < Radix-wrk> Yes, I think it is 06:39 <+perlDreamer> Ask Kristi 06:39 <@rizen> second: do we agree that my solution addresses that problem? 06:39 <@rizen> third: are there any ideas to improve the user level process of my idea? 06:39 <@rizen> how the wizard should work for the user 06:40 < PedersenMJ> It will address it to a point. It *will* get people started more easily. The one failing that can still occur is the sheer size/felxibility of WebGUI. People could still balk, and I have no idea how to counter that. 06:40 <@rizen> the only way i can think of to counter that is to either scale back webgui, or hide it from them...and either way..that hurts webgui 06:40 <@rizen> webgui is a monster 06:41 <@rizen> people should know that it's a monster 06:41 <@rizen> but they should also know that the monster is tamable 06:41 <+perlDreamer> Maybe Gooey should be frowning? 06:42 <@rizen> pd: you were just talking about getting off topic 06:42 <+perlDreamer> sorry 06:42 < Radix-wrk> second: yup, sounds great 06:42 <+perlDreamer> We all agree that wG is big, and that makes it hard to setup. 06:42 <+perlDreamer> If we help them set it up, what do we do from there? 06:43 <+perlDreamer> books, wikis, IRC, discussion boards....? 06:43 < Radix-wrk> third: ning.com has some nice ideas for how they set up their stuff, neat little ajax drag'n'drop kinda interface and custom colours. Might be worth a gander. 06:44 <@rizen> in the next few months we're going to have reams of documentation, and training options coming out of our ears. it's up to the community to provide free docs...the best we as developers can do is provide friendly tools to users 06:44 < Radix-wrk> I found that decent.. trick is to make it not too long that it's impossible go through in one setting, and not too short that you don't feel like you had much say in it. 06:44 < PedersenMJ> Hey, here's a truly stupid thought: Why aren't there links to plainblack support pages anywhere in (for instance) the admin console? 06:44 <@rizen> we put the advertising in the demo content 06:45 <@rizen> and as far as the actual support boards, etc...not everyone has access to that stuff 06:46 < PedersenMJ> Yes. But, for instance, why isn't there a link to wiki.webgui.org somewhere visible in a post-installation page, after all demo content would be removed? 06:46 <@rizen> there will be 06:46 <@rizen> in 7.4 the help icon is going to take you to wiki 06:47 <@rizen> no more help in 7.4 06:47 < PedersenMJ> That's what I meant when I asked about a support page link the admin console 06:50 <@rizen> radix: just tried out ning.com 06:50 <@rizen> yes something like that 06:55 <@rizen> ok...sounds like we're in agreement 06:55 <@rizen> oh...and pd..we can't get rid of the help unless we can build the template builder 06:55 <@rizen> which i'm still not 100% sure how to do 06:55 <@rizen> i'm a little scared about that 06:59 <@rizen> ok well, i'm gone for the night. thanks for the feedback guys...much appreciated 06:59 * rizen out 07:06 < Radix-wrk> caio 07:16 <+perlDreamer> I thought for the template builder that we gutted RTE and added a pop-up form for adding template variables. 07:17 < PedersenMJ> Oooh, there's something: Any chance that the list of macros is accessible from with webgui? Basically, add a popup form that shows a list of macros, too. 07:23 <+perlDreamer> isn't there an RFE for that? 07:24 <+perlDreamer> on the RTE, which isn't available in the template editor now, but in other places the ^#; button will bring up a subset of macros. I think. 07:25 < PedersenMJ> Ah, didn't even look for an rfe for that. My bad. 07:26 <+perlDreamer> maybe you should talk with someone who has commit access about implementing that particular RFE for 7.4 :) 07:29 < PedersenMJ> Heh. My idea for it is bigger than just a popup form. With all the info that is available in the online help (and which I assume will continue to be available in the wiki when 7.4 comes out), it should be possible to provide an "IDE" for the macros. 07:29 <+perlDreamer> that's a pretty big idea 07:29 <+perlDreamer> much bigger than populating the current macro selector with the current set of configured macros 07:30 < PedersenMJ> Not a full IDE, mind you. Just something that will provide the template and help for a given macro. 07:31 <+perlDreamer> the current macro editor does a subset of that, it inserts a sample usage for each macro selected 07:32 < PedersenMJ> That's cool. I just haven't gotten to that point yet in my explorations of webgui. 07:32 <+perlDreamer> but it doesn't link to the help yet, and it doesn't show the complete, possible usage of the macro 07:49 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has quit [] 08:17 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 08:41 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:00 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui 09:35 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has quit ["leaving"] 09:37 -!- Hinrik_ is now known as Hinrik 09:42 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui 09:53 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:01 < pjesi> 4x XEON dual core 3.2ghz and yet WebGUI crushing at 4 in load 10:22 -!- pjesi [n=pjesi@client-82-20-29-208.brhm.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:52 -!- SDuensin_ [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI 11:54 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@143.sub-75-206-207.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 13:28 -!- wgGuest62 [n=wgGuest6@85-18-14-23.fastres.net] has joined #webgui 13:30 < wgGuest62> hey 13:38 -!- TheSeparator [i=Seppie@cp43027-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has joined #webgui 13:38 < wgGuest62> is there a way (a macro?) to get the URL of the current user's profile? 13:41 < wgGuest62> ah trought the User iD macro I guess 14:09 -!- SDuensin_ [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:37 -!- wgGuest62 [n=wgGuest6@85-18-14-23.fastres.net] has quit [] 15:24 -!- Hinrik_ [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 15:39 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:39 -!- Hinrik_ is now known as Hinrik 15:49 -!- Hinrik_ [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 15:52 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 16:12 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui 16:12 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ 17:18 < ckotil> I need some guidance on my group structure 17:27 < ckotil> nvm. ive got it figured out. 17:28 < ckotil> i needed it setup so that my engineers can view and edit all of our internal documents, and then at the same time allow our customers to view the documents for their particular network. 17:28 < ckotil> so i create a group for each network and set that to view. and set the able to edit option to group engineers 18:26 -!- Hinrik_ is now known as Hinrik 18:30 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has quit ["Xirc - MacOSX"] 18:34 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has joined #webgui 18:34 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 18:36 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@194.171.50.114] has left #webgui [] 18:49 <@rizen> perlDreamer: are you here!!! 18:49 <@rizen> ??? 18:52 <+perlDreamer> I'm here, I'm there, I'm everywhere 18:52 <+perlDreamer> so beware 18:52 <+perlDreamer> I gotta find the source for that quote 19:03 < ckotil> beatles 19:03 <+perlDreamer> Like Ringo and Paul? 19:04 < ckotil> yah, 'here, there and everywhere' 19:07 < ckotil> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f5d_1172741350 squirrel catapult 19:07 < ckotil> using that import script i creatd 900+ workflows..... 19:07 < ckotil> its gonna take about an hour to cook them all out 19:08 < ckotil> and i didnt even grab the content :/ 19:11 <+perlDreamer> oy 19:12 * perlDreamer hopes for a telnetd attack today 19:25 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] 19:44 < ckotil> i have this pending version tag, and when i run spectre --status, it shows the workflow as waiting. but in the show running workflow screen, the workflow is shown as error. 19:44 < ckotil> not really a bug. 19:44 < ckotil> just wierd. 20:29 < ckotil> hell yeah. the links even work for the faq o matic entries that are now article assets and page layouts 21:01 <+perlDreamer> snapcount_ is good 21:01 < snapcount_> eh? 21:02 < snapcount_> I thought I was bad 21:02 <+perlDreamer> bad is good 21:02 < snapcount_> oh 21:02 <+perlDreamer> ckotil likes the import script 21:02 < snapcount_> ahh 21:02 < snapcount_> I think the one he's using has been passed around a few times 21:02 < snapcount_> JT modified it 21:03 < snapcount_> then I modified it to not create 1500 copies of each image and file asset =) 21:07 <+perlDreamer> that's good 21:46 <+perlDreamer> we keep getting more of those undef Asset bugs 21:55 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@c5375184f.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #webgui 21:56 -!- rjacobsen [n=rjacobse@74-129-192-43.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #webgui 21:58 <+perlDreamer> what is this Dutch obsession with hair and appearance? 21:58 <+perlDreamer> HairGrease, Dapper? 21:58 < rjacobsen> quick question about webgui - is there a macro that will show a product price? and how would i type the macro (ie. ^Product(101,price) )... that one is not working so i need to know how to get the price of a product on my site with this macro and how it should be typed 21:59 <+perlDreamer> The product macro is what you want to use. Be sure that you're giving it proper arguments. 21:59 < rjacobsen> thats my problem - not sure the correct way to insert the arguments 21:59 < rjacobsen> like ^Product(101, ?) 21:59 <+perlDreamer> the online help will tell you what you need to know 22:00 <+perlDreamer> become admin 22:00 <+perlDreamer> turn admin on 22:00 <+perlDreamer> go to the admin bar 22:00 <+perlDreamer> select admin console 22:00 <+perlDreamer> choose the help icon 22:00 <+perlDreamer> select the macro tab 22:00 < rjacobsen> does "price" go where the ? is? 22:00 <+perlDreamer> no 22:00 < rjacobsen> i see variant.price 22:00 <+perlDreamer> that is a template variable 22:00 < rjacobsen> but dont know where to insert it 22:00 <+perlDreamer> not a macro argument 22:01 <+perlDreamer> your product is configured to use a template to display it 22:01 < rjacobsen> right 22:01 <+perlDreamer> that's where you'd use the variant.price variable 22:01 < rjacobsen> i just want to be able to call just the price of the particular product 22:01 <+perlDreamer> you'd have to create a custom template to do that 22:01 * perlDreamer heads to lunch 22:01 <+perlDreamer> namaste 22:01 < rjacobsen> let me explain 22:03 < rjacobsen> i have a page on a shopping cart form that is thru paypal - instead of putting in a hardcoded price in the value, i want to put in a product/price macro that will put the price in for a particular product without having to change the code all the time 22:03 < rjacobsen> so when i change the product price on the product page it will dynamically change the price in the form via the macro 22:04 < rjacobsen> am i makin any sense>? 22:06 < ckotil> yeah that will be possible. 22:06 <@preaction> so you make a template that has one thing: "", and use that template's ID in your product macro 22:06 < ckotil> might have to write acustom macro 22:06 < dapperedodo> You create a template for the product macro with only the in it. Then use the product macro with that template 22:06 <@preaction> great minds think alike 22:07 < dapperedodo> :) 22:07 < rjacobsen> im real stupid when it comes to macros sorry - can u pls explain a little more? 22:07 < dapperedodo> OH, and for perlDreamer: Dapper means brave in Dutch, nothing with appearance 22:08 < rjacobsen> i know how to use them...... but makin em is difficult 22:08 <@preaction> rjacobsen: you dont have to make one. the second argument to ^Product(productId, templateId); allows you to add an arbitrary template for the product 22:08 < rjacobsen> ok so where do i make that template? 22:09 <@preaction> where ever, you just need the ID 22:09 < rjacobsen> the in the product category? 22:09 < rjacobsen> and the ID is the url? 22:09 <@preaction> it doesn't even need a namespace 22:09 <@preaction> no the ID is the ID 22:09 <@preaction> it's the first item on the edit form after you've created it 22:10 < rjacobsen> so i open the product category and click template (for new template) and name that? 22:10 <@preaction> or put the template in the import node, whatevz 22:12 < rjacobsen> i just dont see an ID slot..... i see Title, Menu Title, URL, Namespace 22:12 < rjacobsen> am i missing something? 22:13 <@preaction> you dont get to choose an ID, I said "after you've created it" 22:13 < rjacobsen> sorry 22:13 <@preaction> once it's created, edit it again, and the first item will be "Asset ID" or something similar 22:13 <@preaction> it'll be a seemingly random series of 22 characters 22:13 <@preaction> (random being the idea, so that there's no collision) 22:14 < rjacobsen> AHHHHH 22:14 < rjacobsen> i see 22:14 < rjacobsen> so i put that in the templateID 22:14 <@preaction> so ^Product("sku","templateId"); 22:14 < rjacobsen> so it would be ^Product(101, C4AYMcRfVHkgxuGJGFsntQ); 22:14 <@preaction> probably want to use quotes, but yes 22:14 < rjacobsen> i mean ^Product("101","C4AYMcRfVHkgxuGJGFsntQ"); 22:15 < rjacobsen> now i can call this into a script you think? 22:16 <@preaction> perlbot tias 22:16 < perlbot> Try It And See: the best way to learn if something works. 22:16 < rjacobsen> ill let ya know thanx VERY much for your help 22:16 < rjacobsen> and THANKYOU for fixin the import packages 22:18 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@c5375184f.cable.wanadoo.nl] has quit ["Xirc - MacOSX"] 22:18 <@preaction> that was all pd 22:19 <@preaction> he gets paid so well that he can work on wG for free, the git 22:21 < rjacobsen> i cant get this to work :( 22:22 < rjacobsen> the form code is in the body tag of the page.... and it wont let me pull in the macro 22:22 < rjacobsen> wierd 22:22 < rjacobsen> i try and and still nothing 22:23 < rjacobsen> when it is called it shows nothing 22:23 < rjacobsen> paypal keeps saying please enter a number greater than 0 22:24 <@preaction> are you sure it's supposed to be "variant.amount" and not something else? make sure the macro is working by putting a field you know work, like the sku or something 22:25 < rjacobsen> im not sure how to test it as it goes to the paypal site 22:25 < rjacobsen> this is what inputs into paypal the price of the product 22:25 <@preaction> make an article that mimics the behavior? or maybe an article that just tries the macro? 22:26 < rjacobsen> ok 22:30 < rjacobsen> the macro isnt working 22:31 < rjacobsen> because i tried ^Page("title"); and it showed up fine in the article as the page title.... but the ^Product("103","C4AYMcRfVHkgxuGJGFsntQ"); just shows the code 22:31 <@preaction> product macro not enabled on your site? it isn't by default 22:32 < rjacobsen> it may not be then 22:32 < rjacobsen> how do i enable it? 22:32 <@preaction> add it to the configuration file 22:32 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@c5375184f.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #webgui 22:32 <@preaction> data/WebGUI/etc/yoursite.conf 22:33 < rjacobsen> just add the ^Product("sku","templateID"); to it? 22:35 <@preaction> look in the configuration file, there's a section devoted to Macros, you should be able to see how to add one 22:41 < rjacobsen> that is awesome thank you 23:00 < rjacobsen> ok i enabled the product macro and started out by simply putting in ^Product("101"); and it says cannot find product even though there is a product 101 23:03 < dapperedodo> Did you define the product in the commerce module? 23:05 < rjacobsen> how do i do that? 23:05 < dapperedodo> go to the admin console - click 'Products' 23:06 < rjacobsen> ok there is none listed - wierd 23:06 < rjacobsen> but i have like 20 product pages 23:06 < dapperedodo> Ah, the product wobject is not connected to the commerce module 23:06 < rjacobsen> damm 23:06 < rjacobsen> so how can i make this work? 23:06 < dapperedodo> The product wobject was developed a long time ago 23:07 < dapperedodo> add the products also in the Products 23:07 < rjacobsen> ok 23:07 < dapperedodo> and it will work 23:07 < rjacobsen> ty 23:07 < dapperedodo> It is a little more work 23:09 < rjacobsen> one more question 23:10 < rjacobsen> the current template i created for my product page layout - can i use it for the products in the commerce? 23:10 < rjacobsen> if so i can make it totally dynamic 23:18 < dapperedodo> They are not connected (yet???), but you can try to merge them 23:19 < dapperedodo> The commerce product has no options for extra features and so 23:19 <+perlDreamer> apologies, dapperedodo 23:20 <+perlDreamer> But in English your nick is a well groomed extinct bird 23:20 < dapperedodo> I just looked in the dictionary 23:20 <+perlDreamer> As long as we know that it's the Dutch MySQL powerhouse behind the name, you can call yourself anything you like. 23:20 < dapperedodo> I am fine with it 23:21 < dapperedodo> :) 23:21 <+perlDreamer> So you and your team were spun out from Procolix into an independent business? 23:22 < dapperedodo> yes that's right 23:22 < dapperedodo> We do the hard programming stuf 23:22 <+perlDreamer> Is that going well? 23:22 < dapperedodo> ProcoliX does the hosting stuf 23:22 < dapperedodo> It is going very well 23:22 <+perlDreamer> cool 23:22 < dapperedodo> Programming is much more fun then Hosting 23:22 < rjacobsen> why when i click on the commerce button in the admin console does it just bring me back to the website page i was working on? it does not open any editing options for commerce 23:23 < dapperedodo> and people want to pay for both, so we are both in business 23:23 <+perlDreamer> Oh, so you still work with procolix 23:24 < dapperedodo> Yes, we are a great team, only the business split 23:24 < dapperedodo> clicking the commerce button should get you the commerce settings 23:24 < rjacobsen> it doesnt sir 23:25 <+perlDreamer> rjacobsen, what's in your webgui.log file? 23:25 < rjacobsen> it just brings me back to the web page i was working on before i opened the admin console 23:26 < dapperedodo> I'm off now, see you later 23:26 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@c5375184f.cable.wanadoo.nl] has quit ["Xirc - MacOSX"] 23:27 < rjacobsen> what site is that i use to copy and paste again? to show you the error log? 23:27 <+perlDreamer> gooeybot: paste? 23:27 < gooeybot> somebody said paste was http://paste.biz 23:28 < rjacobsen> http://paste.biz/paste-775.html 23:29 <+perlDreamer> rjacobsen: I need to ask you some questions 23:30 <+perlDreamer> do you host your own server? 23:30 < rjacobsen> yes we do 23:30 < rjacobsen> linux 23:30 < rjacobsen> fadora 23:30 <+perlDreamer> you have shell access? 23:30 < rjacobsen> yes we do - or my boss does anyhow 23:30 <+perlDreamer> have you customized WebGUI? 23:30 < rjacobsen> do you want to talk to him? 23:30 < rjacobsen> yes we have quite a bit 23:31 < rjacobsen> but not much with the base code that i know of 23:31 <+perlDreamer> what version of wG are you running? 23:31 < rjacobsen> second - let me get my boss in the irc channel 23:31 <+perlDreamer> okay 23:32 <+perlDreamer> you're probably missing the Locale::US perl module 23:32 <+perlDreamer> but there are ways to test that 23:36 -!- dwalisser [n=dwalisse@74-129-192-43.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #webgui 23:36 < rjacobsen> ok sir 23:36 < rjacobsen> dwallisser is my boss and has shell access to webgui 23:37 <+perlDreamer> dwalisser, what version of WebGUI are you running? 23:37 < dwalisser> 7.3.10 23:37 < rjacobsen> correction 23:37 < rjacobsen> 7.3.11 23:37 <+perlDreamer> I would like you to run the testEnvironment script in the sbin directory 23:37 < dwalisser> ah, 7.3.11, needed to refresh 23:38 <+perlDreamer> be sure to use the switch to just print out a report 23:38 < dwalisser> ok 23:38 <+perlDreamer> perl testEnvironment.pl --simpleReport 23:38 <+perlDreamer> I'm guessing that you're missing a module, but this will tell us 23:40 < dwalisser> It says HTML::Template outdated, Text::Aspell not installed, Locale::US not installed 23:40 <+perlDreamer> you need to install Locale::US 23:41 < dwalisser> ok 23:41 <+perlDreamer> once you do that, you should be golden 23:41 <+perlDreamer> and do update HTML::Template, the newer version fixes some long standing bugs with template variables that you will eventually run into 23:43 < dwalisser> ok, done. thanks for your help 23:44 <+perlDreamer> no problem. 23:44 <+perlDreamer> rjacobsen is a hard worker and coming up to speed well. 23:44 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI has a steep learning curve 23:46 < rjacobsen> i really appreciate all your help 23:47 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui 23:47 -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ 23:47 <+perlDreamer> You're welcome. Just remember that we've all been where you have been and hang in there. 23:47 < rjacobsen> this seems to fix the problem - although when i put in ^Product("103","C4AYMcRfVHkgxuGJGFsntQ"); i get nothing 23:47 <+perlDreamer> and if you have a chance, answer a question on the boards, post a wiki article or add a contrib. 23:47 < rjacobsen> and i know i put the product in 23:48 < rjacobsen> i can put in ^Product("103"); and it shows the product..... but i use ^Product("103","C4AYMcRfVHkgxuGJGFsntQ"); - which should show the product price only - it does not 23:48 <+perlDreamer> then you have a template problem 23:49 < rjacobsen> the C4AYMcRfVHkgxuGJGFsntQ is the asset ID to the template i made with 23:50 <+perlDreamer> variant.price only exists inside of the variantLoop 23:50 < rjacobsen> ok 23:50 <+perlDreamer> just nest it in a loop, and only have 1 variant 23:50 < rjacobsen> let me explain what i am trying to do sir 23:50 <+perlDreamer> You need to put this in a form to paypal 23:50 < rjacobsen> yes 23:50 <+perlDreamer> (I was lurking earlier) 23:50 < rjacobsen> and send only the price 23:51 <+perlDreamer> if your product only has 1 variant, then there will only be 1 price 23:51 < rjacobsen> so how would i write the code on the template page? 23:51 <+perlDreamer> 23:51 < rjacobsen> ahhhh 23:52 < rjacobsen> let me try that 23:52 <+perlDreamer> may I make a suggestion? 23:52 < rjacobsen> brb 23:52 < rjacobsen> sure sir 23:52 <+perlDreamer> take 30 minutes, and read through some of the online wG docs 23:52 < rjacobsen> i have already 23:52 < rjacobsen> a lot 23:52 <+perlDreamer> all right 23:52 <+perlDreamer> because knowing HTML::Template well is pretty important for getting stuff to work 23:53 < rjacobsen> where can i find the read info on that? you have a url? 23:54 <+perlDreamer> ?op=viewHelp;hid=template%20language;namespace=Asset_Template 23:54 <+perlDreamer> use that op on your site 23:54 <+perlDreamer> kidscorner.us.com?op=..... 23:54 < rjacobsen> ok 23:56 <+perlDreamer> preaction: I need a bug consult. Do you have 10 minutes? 23:57 <@preaction> yo 23:58 <+perlDreamer> read this first: http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/clipboard-to-trash#_ih716rkIGoJIKR1-geK-g 23:58 -!- snapcount_ [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:59 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 23:59 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ 23:59 <+perlDreamer> I think we can handle this one of 3 ways 23:59 <+perlDreamer> 1) Return an error saying that you can't delete uncommitted assets. 23:59 <+perlDreamer> 2) Delete it anyway, leaving the user with an empty, uncommitted version tag --- Day changed Sat Mar 03 2007 00:00 <+perlDreamer> 3) Don't do anything 00:00 <@preaction> with the addition of "enter the revision and remove the revision of this asset manually" 00:00 < rjacobsen> thank you for all your help and sorry if i sound like an idiot here - just tryin to do my job well and make this thing work very well...... before my introduction to webgui i used php-nuke and a LOT of html/database code..... so this is a whole new world........ but i do appreciate the help 00:00 <@preaction> i think for now it'd be better to do 1) with instructions on how to continue, with the future being 2) once tmrfe gets involved 00:01 <+perlDreamer> okay, I'll punt until we get tmrfe'd 00:01 <@preaction> wait, the Admin is trying to remove from the system clipboard? 00:01 <+perlDreamer> Yes 00:01 <@preaction> they should be allowed to do that imho 00:01 <+perlDreamer> I think so too, but what about the empty version tag? 00:02 <+perlDreamer> isn't that bad juju? 00:02 <@preaction> maybe empty trash should detect newly empty version tags and delete them 00:02 <@preaction> in fact, imho, empty version tags should never exist 00:02 <+perlDreamer> it sounds bad. 00:02 <@preaction> to delete them? or to allow them? 00:03 <+perlDreamer> to create empty ones via anymethod 00:03 <@preaction> creating a version tag should be a result of another method 00:03 <+perlDreamer> I'm pretty sure the TrashClipboard workflow activity has this same bug, btw 00:03 <@preaction> addRevision or addChild 00:03 <+perlDreamer> it is, but they're never automatically destroyed when emptied 00:03 <@preaction> do you think they should be? i do 00:04 <@preaction> an empty version tag is useless 00:04 <+perlDreamer> I agree with you, preaction 00:04 <+perlDreamer> You're preachin' to the choir 00:04 <@preaction> sounds like something for the dev list 00:04 <+perlDreamer> The dev list? That's dead :) 00:04 <@preaction> it's not dead so much as we haven't had anything to put there 00:04 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:04 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 00:04 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ 00:04 <@preaction> since when JT hangs out here, he's The Final Word 00:05 <@preaction> which negates the necessity for discussion 00:05 <+perlDreamer> or immediate presence in IRC 00:07 <@preaction> i can't think of any need for a version tag that has nothing in it yet, except when you do WebGUI::VersionTag->getWorking (which creates a tag to prepare for you to do a bunch of stuff under it, if there is no tag already) 00:07 <@preaction> so we can't just remove them willy-nilly 00:08 <@preaction> i think probably as each asset in the trash is deleted, check the tagId and see if we can delete the version tag as well 00:09 <@preaction> that way, too, in the system manage version tags, tags from long ago that have since had all their assets deleted will not show up 00:09 <@preaction> i dunno, i'm over my head now 00:15 < rjacobsen> how can i add/remove stuff from the admin bar on the left side of the screen for users i do not want to see certain things and users i want to see more? example: secondary admin can see "products" but testuser(content manager) can not 00:15 < rjacobsen> is there a way? 00:16 <@preaction> uiLevels 00:17 < rjacobsen> do what? lol 00:17 <@preaction> ask? 00:17 < gooeybot> ask is Don't ask to ask, just ask. Don't repeat. If nobody answers, it probably means nobody knows. While you wait: Check the fine manual, check google, check the source, try different things on a demo site. 00:17 <@preaction> smart questions? 00:17 < gooeybot> smart questions is http://www.mikeash.com/getting_answers.html or http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html 00:17 <@preaction> there's the one 00:18 <@preaction> uiLevels are documented, the way you'll probably want to implement them is in the configuration file 00:22 < dwalisser> can the config file override the ui level hard-coded in the wobject? 00:22 <@preaction> yes it does 00:22 < dwalisser> ah 00:23 <@preaction> you can also override which groups are allowed to add which types of assets in the config file 00:26 < dwalisser> has anyone written a clever script that would allow me to setup one site config file the way I want and copy it to all the others (I have 15 that I want to be identical) 00:27 < dwalisser> the difference being the db user/password and dsn only 00:27 < dwalisser> oh and the sitename 00:27 < dwalisser> ah and the uploadsPath 00:27 < dwalisser> I think that covers it 00:27 <@preaction> the config files are JSON, so write your own. jsonToObj gives you a perl data structure, objToJson puts it back 00:28 < dwalisser> sounds like a simple script then 00:29 <+perlDreamer> dwalisser, that's kind of what the WRE does 00:29 <+perlDreamer> I think it has a template for all new sites it creates 00:29 <+perlDreamer> config files, etc. 00:30 <+perlDreamer> alter the template, and you should be done. 00:30 < dwalisser> yes, I've been using that "WebGUI.conf.original", downside is it is overwritten every time I upgrade 00:31 <+perlDreamer> make a small SVN repository and check it in. 00:31 <+perlDreamer> after the upgrade, do a merge 00:31 <@preaction> or keep a diff, and run the patch 00:31 < dwalisser> yeah 00:35 <+perlDreamer> man, preaction, we know this WebGUI stuff pretty well. Maybe we should look into doing it as more than a hobby. 00:36 <@preaction> no crap, maybe we should be getting paid for this 00:39 <+perlDreamer> how's the hacking coming? 00:39 <@preaction> not so bad 00:40 <@preaction> is it just me, or is it impossible to get a truly deep structure out of the WebGUI::Config interface 00:40 <@preaction> example: workflow activities are a hash of array refs 00:40 <@preaction> i suppose the interface is returning references, so i can work with that 00:40 <+perlDreamer> yeah 00:41 <+perlDreamer> I think this is going to be the highest subrev of wG ever 00:41 <+perlDreamer> .12 00:41 <+perlDreamer> and we're not done yet 00:41 <@preaction> i think we'll be going further than that before 7.4 00:41 <@preaction> but i also think it's very good that we're doing so 00:42 <+perlDreamer> me, too 00:42 <+perlDreamer> a very stable wG will make all of our lives easier 00:42 <@preaction> webgui has a lot of features, and people are clamoring for more, but bugs and a stable maintainable code base are far more important for the future 00:42 <@preaction> i should RFE for "update skeletons to conform to WebGUI Best Practices" 00:43 <+perlDreamer> Do you ever wonder about the features people _don't_ clamor for? 00:43 <+perlDreamer> Could they be removed? 00:43 <@preaction> such as the guided setup? 00:43 <@preaction> or i18n? 00:43 < gooeybot> i guess i18n is overwritten each upgrade 00:43 <@preaction> i18n is a mixed bag, it's the reason some people choose webgui, but it's also just cruft for a lot of people 00:43 <+perlDreamer> yes 00:43 <+perlDreamer> they really want i18n content and UI 00:43 <+perlDreamer> but we only do half that 00:44 <@preaction> well, the UI we have control over, the content they have control over, make a section for each translation 00:45 <@preaction> i mean, if they want multiple languages, they're going to have to do something 00:56 <@preaction> if a scheduled workflow activity isSerial but is not a singleton, that means i can queue up multiple activities that will all run one at a time, correct? 00:56 <@preaction> i mean, it's what the docs say 00:58 <+perlDreamer> that sounds right to me 01:06 <+perlDreamer> have a look at Session.pm, line 638 01:06 -!- dwalisser [n=dwalisse@74-129-192-43.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit ["User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby"] 01:07 <@preaction> WebGUI::Session? 01:07 <+perlDreamer> yes 01:07 <@preaction> 1;? 01:08 <+perlDreamer> $self->var("adminOn") 01:08 <+perlDreamer> var->get("adminOn") or var->isAdminOn 01:08 <+perlDreamer> I've been trying to fix xtopher's dbSlave bug 01:08 <+perlDreamer> it's weird 01:09 <+perlDreamer> that line is a bug, but it won't generate a DBI level connect error 01:09 <+perlDreamer> he says that the slave connections are all okay 01:11 <@preaction> you sure it's session.pm? not db.pm? 01:12 <@preaction> dbSlave, i see 01:12 <@preaction> wrong line 01:13 <+perlDreamer> brb 01:19 <+perlDreamer> back 01:19 <@preaction> it tries to connect to all three, that's probably bad 01:19 <+perlDreamer> yeah 01:20 <+perlDreamer> also, it tries to connect even if it is in adminMode and is going to use the main server anyway 01:20 <@preaction> it's possible that when it tries to connect the second and third time, it negates the other connections, and then it randomly selects one of the negated connections 01:21 <@preaction> though i don't see how, but whatevz 01:21 <+perlDreamer> he's getting a connect error, during connection creation 01:23 <+perlDreamer> I guess the way it's implemented now, it sprays across the servers during a page view, as opposed to randomly choosing a slave for an entire page view 01:23 <+perlDreamer> I think the second would be safer 01:24 <@preaction> might even be faster 01:24 <+perlDreamer> like 3X faster 01:26 <@preaction> where IS jt today? wonder what he's going to do about frank snaking my weekend 01:26 <@preaction> i was supposed to go down to madison to play Supreme Commander in a little LAN party 01:26 <@preaction> the git 01:48 <+perlDreamer> JT took the day off 01:49 <+perlDreamer> said something about setting up a LAN party to play SupCom with out of town guests or something 02:14 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:17 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui 02:17 -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ 02:35 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"] 02:37 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:43 -!- Netsplit leguin.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: Hinrik, gooeybot, Radix_ 03:44 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Hinrik, gooeybot, Radix_ 03:44 -!- Netsplit leguin.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: Radix_ 03:44 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Radix_ 04:52 -!- Radix__ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has joined #webgui 04:52 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui 04:52 -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ 04:53 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #webgui [] 05:12 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:20 -!- TheSeparator [i=Seppie@cp43027-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:57 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui 05:57 < PedersenMJ> Good evening. 06:04 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI 07:06 <@preaction> possible good idea: a Dumb Container wobject to make wG dev easier. You could simply make a definition for a "Address Book Item" asset, sub-class the Dumb Container wobject to simply tell it that it should contain "Address Book Item" assets, and you have an application (in this case, an Address Book) 07:16 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:52 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@c5375184f.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #webgui 07:57 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@c5375184f.cable.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 08:32 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:32 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI 16:17 -!- wgGuest41 [n=wgGuest4@85-18-14-23.fastres.net] has joined #webgui 16:17 < wgGuest41> hi all 16:18 < wgGuest41> Do you know which session timeout setting has plainblack.com? I need to find a compromise between usability and security 17:38 -!- wgGuest41 [n=wgGuest4@85-18-14-23.fastres.net] has quit [] 18:19 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui 18:19 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has quit [Client Quit] 19:01 -!- wgGuest74 [n=wgGuest7@85-18-14-23.fastres.net] has joined #webgui 19:01 < wgGuest74> hi 19:01 < gooeybot> bonjour, wgGuest74 19:01 < wgGuest74> thanks :) 19:01 < wgGuest74> I disconnected before 19:02 < wgGuest74> did you read my session timeout question? :) 19:31 -!- snapcount_ [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 19:31 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:12 -!- wgGuest74 [n=wgGuest7@85-18-14-23.fastres.net] has quit [] --- Day changed Sun Mar 04 2007 00:07 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui 00:07 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 00:08 <+perlDreamer> the deadline has passed 00:08 <+perlDreamer> we should change the title 00:08 <+perlDreamer> the pressure is now on snapcount_ and the other PB staff, who must wade through the dozens of 00:08 <+perlDreamer> wiki entries submitted by the community 00:09 <+perlDreamer> or the dozens of pages submitted by PedersenMJ for his one entry 00:18 <+perlDreamer> in any case, all of WebGUI-dom waits, breathlessly to see who will win the 00:18 <+perlDreamer> latest installment of this contest. 00:36 -!- Hinrik_ [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 00:51 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:54 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:36 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 01:41 -!- Hinrik_ [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:37 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui 04:37 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 05:00 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui 05:00 -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ 05:05 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #webgui [] 06:36 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui 06:36 < PedersenMJ> hello all 06:53 <+perlDreamer> hey, man 06:55 <+perlDreamer> hm 06:56 <+perlDreamer> say that three times fast 06:56 <+perlDreamer> petrolacasaurus 06:57 < PedersenMJ> Is that the gasoline dinosaur that also has a wall outlet in its tail? 06:59 <+perlDreamer> yup, that's him 07:00 <+perlDreamer> The Discovery Channel rocks 07:00 <+perlDreamer> so far I've found two bugs tonight from writing API tests 07:01 < PedersenMJ> unit tests are an amazing thing for finding bugs. 07:03 < PedersenMJ> I always wind up pointing to my first experience with them as evidence of their strength. I had written up (in C) mime encode/decode routines. And had checked them over pretty thoroughly, done some tests, etc. I knew they worked. And then I formalized into unit tests, and found out that one of my decide routines was missing the return statement, making it broken. 07:03 < PedersenMJ> And I had "known" that it worked just fine for months. 07:04 <+perlDreamer> that sounds like a good lesson 07:04 <+perlDreamer> my favorite one was "well, all the tests pass so the design is fine" 07:04 <+perlDreamer> that was before I learned about test coverage 07:05 < PedersenMJ> For me, that was learning about writing *any* tests :) 07:05 < PedersenMJ> However, I know that I'm weak in some testing aspects. Okay, most of them. Any good websites on how to ensure test coverage? 07:05 < PedersenMJ> Or that at least discuss it? 07:06 <+perlDreamer> I don't know of any. 07:06 <+perlDreamer> I went to an OSCON presentation last year and became a believer 07:06 <+perlDreamer> The big testing things seem to be 07:06 <+perlDreamer> 1) Write them 07:06 <+perlDreamer> well, 07:06 <+perlDreamer> 0) Write Unit tests 07:07 <+perlDreamer> 1) Run your coverage on your unit tests 07:07 <+perlDreamer> 2) write integration tests 07:07 < PedersenMJ> That's the part I'm missing. 07:07 <+perlDreamer> integration tests? WebGUI doesn't have any yet either 07:08 < PedersenMJ> I'm working on a python script that will automate a *lot* of the verification of the state of the code and docs for another set of python scripts I'm working on. 07:08 < PedersenMJ> But I have yet to even come close to finding a way to verify (programatically) that enough integration testing is being done. 07:09 <@preaction> what do you mean by integration tests? 07:09 <+perlDreamer> for wG, it would be UI level tests 07:09 <+perlDreamer> things that test multiple things together in a sequence 07:09 <@preaction> so WWW::Mechanize or a series of getPage() 07:09 <+perlDreamer> each may work correctly, but may not call among themselves correctly 07:09 < PedersenMJ> For me, integration tests would be testing the interaction of two modules. 07:10 <+perlDreamer> there may be some integration level testing now, but it's purely by accident 07:12 <+perlDreamer> I'm looking forward to the new OSCON schedule coming out 07:17 <+perlDreamer> preaction: did you read my last dev post? Am I askin' for beatin? 07:18 <@preaction> with wrapper around getLineage? 07:18 <+perlDreamer> yeah 07:19 <@preaction> i agree, actually. getLineage should be the standard method to get assets that you don't know the assetId for 07:19 <+perlDreamer> it's just the potential performance hit, maybe I should try to quantify it 07:19 <@preaction> i prefer code maintainability over performance in most cases 07:20 <+perlDreamer> I think it will save us tons of time down the road 07:20 <@preaction> i mean, it's an extra little bit to do the logic to build the SQL, but the benefits of the encapsulation outweigh that imho 07:20 <+perlDreamer> yeah. Change it in 1 place, and it works everywhere 07:20 <@preaction> then you can do optimization from inside the getLineage and everything gets the benefit 07:20 <+perlDreamer> but because it's more code, it may never reach the speed of the pure SQL query 07:21 <+perlDreamer> he'll weigh in, then we'll do it 07:21 <+perlDreamer> there are other, bigger bugs to worry about anyway 07:21 <@preaction> but getLineage will survive database schema changes, when pure SQL queries probably won't 07:22 <+perlDreamer> I agree 07:24 <+perlDreamer> I'm guessing that the problems we're seeing in the Clipboard also exist in the Trash, and in their Workflow Activities, too. 07:24 <+perlDreamer> The RTE has 4-6 semi-related open bugs 07:24 <+perlDreamer> The calendar has a new batch of bugs 07:24 <+perlDreamer> plus there's the list we've been dragging around 07:25 <+perlDreamer> It's enough to make a dev nuts 07:25 * perlDreamer screams 07:25 <+perlDreamer> shriek, shriek 07:26 <@preaction> i'm lucky, i don't get to deal with core bugs, i'm doing client work ;) 07:26 <+perlDreamer> how's that coming? Did you make your deadline? 07:27 <@preaction> no, the client data migration tool screwed my dev box three times in a row 07:27 <@preaction> and the migration tool takes about 3-4 hours to run 07:27 <@preaction> so i started on other things while that was going 07:27 <+perlDreamer> that must be some set of data 07:28 <+perlDreamer> the whole webgui test set only takes 75 minutes to run on my laptop 07:28 <@preaction> i figured out that there's a niche for a sort of "Dumb Container" wobject, that acts simply as a way to display a list of whatever asset is contained inside it 07:28 <@preaction> there's about 26,000 users 07:28 <@preaction> that's the main thing i need to migrate each time 07:28 <+perlDreamer> For the Dumb Container, it's like the Folder or CS? 07:28 <@preaction> and every time i try to make a backup, so i don't have to re-run the migration 07:28 <@preaction> it dies 07:28 <@preaction> basically 07:29 <@preaction> you'd subclass the dumb container to tell it what asset it should allow, and then write the asset's getEditForm and getTemplateVars methods 07:29 <@preaction> i've written three apps in a row now, that are basically dumb containers that make their sub-assets do all the work 07:30 <@preaction> kind of like the Calendar 07:30 <+perlDreamer> It makes sense. 07:30 <@preaction> it's more of a dev item, the dumb container itself has no value 07:30 <+perlDreamer> It may let us start to specialize the CS instead of making it so generic, which would make JT happy 07:30 <+perlDreamer> He hates that it's gotten so big 07:30 <+perlDreamer> and slow 07:31 <@preaction> well, little value, it'd be possible to make it valuable by itself 07:33 <@preaction> yeah, the CS could be a subclass of this, allowed to contain Threads 07:33 <@preaction> it might obfuscate the code a bit 07:33 <+perlDreamer> but then you could have a specialized photo gallery, and a weblog 07:34 <+perlDreamer> instead of the monster CS that does everything 07:34 <@preaction> true enough, the main code being in the Dumb Container 07:35 <+perlDreamer> Hey! 07:36 <+perlDreamer> User.pm now has 100% coverage, except for the deprecated identifier method 07:36 <@preaction> sweet 07:36 <+perlDreamer> I found two bugs while writing tests for it tonight 07:36 <+perlDreamer> and added a new method to SQL.pm, quickScalar 07:37 <@preaction> gets the first element of the first row of a query? 07:37 <+perlDreamer> yup 07:37 <+perlDreamer> that was one of the bugs that I found in User.pm 07:37 <@preaction> very good idea, too much my ($result) = $db->quickArray("query"); 07:37 <@preaction> there's a lot of that in the code 07:37 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has quit [] 07:38 <+perlDreamer> plus, now you can do things that were broken like this: 07:38 <+perlDreamer> if (!exists $self->{_profile}{$fieldName} && !$self->session->db->quickArray("SELECT COUNT(*) FROM userProfileField WHERE fieldName = ?", [$fieldName])) 07:38 <+perlDreamer> safely 07:38 <+perlDreamer> the array always had 1 element in it, so in scalar context that part of the conditional was always true 07:39 <@preaction> yeah, i don't like the idea of that SQL query inside the IF conditional :p, cleaner to assign it to a var and test it afterward 07:39 <@preaction> but i see your point 07:40 <+perlDreamer> probably more PBP as well 07:40 <+perlDreamer> I remember thinking about that and convincing myself that it was better to do it this way.... 07:41 <+perlDreamer> oh, I remember 07:41 <+perlDreamer> inside the conditional, it only does the query if the profile field doesn't exist 07:42 <@preaction> if you put it as the first line inside the conditional, it's the same thing? 07:42 <+perlDreamer> via nesting? yes 07:42 <@preaction> rather, after the ) { 07:43 <+perlDreamer> I see what you mean, now 07:48 -!- TheSeparator [i=Seppie@cp43027-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has joined #webgui 08:28 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit [""""] 08:43 -!- Radix__ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has quit ["Windows doesn't have users, it has hostages."] 08:53 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has joined #webgui 09:07 -!- Hinrik is now known as Hinrik\ 09:07 -!- Hinrik\ is now known as Hinrik 09:35 -!- todor_k [n=wgGuest9@zen.ecocoms.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:47 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui 09:48 -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ 10:08 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:15 -!- preaction_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 11:23 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:10 -!- Hinrik_ [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 12:24 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:37 < TheSeparator> Looks like Spectre on the Plainblack.com server is on strike... 13:41 < TheSeparator> no new posts appear 13:49 -!- Hinrik_ is now known as Hinrik 16:29 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui 16:29 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ 16:30 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui 16:30 -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ 16:32 -!- crythias [n=Gerald@c-68-51-234-189.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #webgui [] 19:05 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@sbserver.sunsetpres.org] has joined #webgui 19:05 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 19:51 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@sbserver.sunsetpres.org] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:11 -!- snapcount_ [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [] 21:00 -!- Hinrik_ [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 21:14 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:16 -!- Hinrik_ is now known as Hinrik --- Day changed Mon Mar 05 2007 01:17 -!- preaction_ is now known as preaction 01:17 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 01:48 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] 03:28 -!- Netsplit leguin.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: ckotil 03:29 -!- Netsplit over, joins: ckotil 04:04 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui 04:05 < PedersenMJ> heya 04:21 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [] 04:22 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 04:22 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 04:25 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 04:26 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ 05:08 -!- snapcount_ [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 05:25 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:05 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has quit [] 06:52 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@c5375184f.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #webgui 07:00 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@c5375184f.cable.wanadoo.nl] has quit ["Xirc - MacOSX"] 10:11 -!- php-freak [i=tdd1984@74-133-97-232.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #webgui 10:11 < php-freak> is this a xampp channel? 10:11 < Hinrik> why would you think that? 10:23 -!- php-freak [i=tdd1984@74-133-97-232.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [] 12:07 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:46 -!- wgGuest16 [n=wgGuest1@85-18-14-23.fastres.net] has joined #webgui 12:52 -!- wgGuest16 [n=wgGuest1@85-18-14-23.fastres.net] has quit [] 14:07 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:31 -!- pjesi [n=pjesi@nix.is] has joined #webgui 15:20 < Hinrik> how does one make a package? 15:21 < Hinrik> the only think I see is a "Make package?" question under the metadata tab with a yes/no radio button 15:44 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@242.sub-75-206-99.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI 15:54 < pjesi> what if you select @yes@ 15:56 < Hinrik> nm 15:57 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 15:57 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ 15:57 -!- snapcount_ [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:58 < SDuensin> Good morning! 16:08 -!- snapcount_ [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 16:11 < Hinrik> hm, when I try to export a package I created, it just gives me: 16:11 < Hinrik> The requested URL /uploads/temp/JN/JNVATRUgdbd70zMSEkKpLw was not found on this server. 16:11 < Hinrik> it's not a permission problem, this file simply wasn't created 16:12 < Hinrik> if I create the package again, I get the same, just a different URL 16:24 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:50 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 17:50 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 18:01 < snapcount_> Bueller 18:01 < snapcount_> Bueller 18:01 < snapcount_> Bueller 18:01 <@preaction> He's home sick 18:01 < snapcount_> Hinrik: check your error logs, they will guide you to the answers you seek 18:02 < Hinrik> yeah... --- Log opened Mon Mar 05 18:59:09 2007 18:59 -!- xdanger [i=xdanger@217.112.244.70] has joined #webgui 18:59 -!- Irssi: #webgui: Total of 13 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 1 voices, 11 normal] 18:59 -!- Irssi: Join to #webgui was synced in 3 secs 19:11 <+perlDreamer> getAssetsInClipboard really wants to be a class method 19:18 <+perlDreamer> Is anyone else able to use the newly updated Weather Asset? 19:26 < ckotil> havent tried. 19:26 < ckotil> i could check it out, if you want me to 19:26 < ckotil> im not doing anything else really 19:26 < ckotil> just waiting for workflows to cook off 19:27 <+perlDreamer> Please give it a shot 19:27 <+perlDreamer> I think there's a naming problem 19:28 <+perlDreamer> It has to be called Weather::Simple 19:28 <+perlDreamer> but it has to be installed as Weather::Com::Simple 19:28 < ckotil> i need to install htat. 19:28 < ckotil> first. 19:28 < ckotil> so what module am i installing ? 19:29 <+perlDreamer> Weather::Com::Simple 19:29 <+perlDreamer> perl -MCPAN -e shell 19:29 <+perlDreamer> force install Weather::Com::Simple 19:29 < ckotil> got it 19:30 <+perlDreamer> It has a poorly written test that assumes that this year is 2005, that's why the force 19:31 -!- wgGuest46 [n=wgGuest4@user-24-214-222-222.knology.net] has joined #webgui 19:31 < ckotil> is the new weather asset enabled by default? 19:32 <+perlDreamer> I think so 19:32 < ckotil> k. i need to register somewhere right? 19:32 <+perlDreamer> webgui.conf 19:35 < ckotil> ok, is there an article i can read to see what i gotta do? 19:35 <+perlDreamer> just become admin and turn on admin 19:35 < ckotil> well yeah 19:35 <+perlDreamer> if you can deploy it, it will show up in the admin bar 19:36 < ckotil> i add it and commit and it disappears. 19:36 < ckotil> i didnt configure it in webgui.conf bc i dunno wtf to do 19:36 <+perlDreamer> You just add WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WeatherData to your assets 19:36 <+perlDreamer> that's all the config 19:36 < ckotil> o 19:36 < ckotil> i thought we had to register with some www to retrieve info 19:37 < ckotil> well im to the point where i add it from the new content bar 19:37 < ckotil> commit. 19:37 < ckotil> dissapeared 19:38 <+perlDreamer> which WebGUI are you running? 19:38 < ckotil> .10 19:38 < ckotil> i can move to .11 if you need me to. im working this on my dev box 19:38 <+perlDreamer> yeah, that would be good 19:38 <+perlDreamer> this new code was added in .11 19:39 < ckotil> k 19:41 < ckotil> no weather data asset now 19:41 < ckotil> and that line is in my conf 19:41 < snapcount_> perlDreamer: thx for all the bug work you've been up to lately 19:42 <+perlDreamer> you're welcome 19:42 <+perlDreamer> I'm bored to tears at work 19:42 <+perlDreamer> No projects for 7 weeks now 19:42 <+perlDreamer> without wG, I'd be a wreck 19:42 < snapcount_> yay for us! 19:43 <+perlDreamer> I have two more bug fixes coming in, now 19:43 < snapcount_> you should apply to work for us 19:43 < snapcount_> you have the time 19:43 < snapcount_> might as well collect a check =D 19:43 <+perlDreamer> Oh no, I still get paid. I'm salaried 19:43 < snapcount_> I know 19:43 < snapcount_> get paid twice 19:44 < snapcount_> two full-time jobs... you could build your own spaceship 19:44 <+perlDreamer> doing outside consulting at $dayJob is strictly verboten 19:44 < snapcount_> bah 19:44 < snapcount_> hehe 19:44 <+perlDreamer> They are ultra paranoid. 19:44 <+perlDreamer> To get internet access, you have to get a VP signature 19:44 < snapcount_> nice 19:44 <+perlDreamer> I hacked this proxy onto our "allowed pool computer" for group-level internet access 19:45 < ckotil> hehe. spaceship 19:45 < snapcount_> excellent 19:45 < snapcount_> well, I must eat to prevent myself from dying 19:45 < snapcount_> bbl 19:50 < ckotil> pd what now? 19:50 <+perlDreamer> start up wG, become Admin and turn on Admin 19:50 <+perlDreamer> look for the Weather Asset in the Admin Bar 19:51 <+perlDreamer> and then look in WebGUI.log for an error about Asset::Wobject::WeatherData and getUiLevel 19:51 < ckotil> k 19:51 < ckotil> 2007/03/05 17:40:59 - ERROR - newt.webgui.conf - WebGUI::Session::ErrorHandler::error[183] - Couldn't get UI level of WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::StockData. Root cause: Can't locate object method "getUiLevel" via package "WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::StockData" at /gnoc/newt/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm line 520. 19:51 < ckotil> err. 19:52 <+perlDreamer> yup, that's what I'm looking for 19:52 <+perlDreamer> Thanks! 19:52 < ckotil> thats for stock data tho. 19:52 < ckotil> lemme see if i can get a weather data 19:53 < ckotil> 2007/03/05 17:53:01 - ERROR - newt.webgui.conf - WebGUI::Session::ErrorHandler::error[183] - Couldn't get UI level of WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WeatherData. Root cause: Can't locate object method "getUiLevel" via package "WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WeatherData" at /gnoc/newt/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm line 520. 19:53 <+perlDreamer> and you installed Weather::Com, right? 19:54 < ckotil> yes. 19:54 <+perlDreamer> then I've got the right bug, then. 19:54 <+perlDreamer> Thanks for the double check, ckotil! 19:55 < ckotil> np 20:07 < ckotil> ? : webgui will strip out any invalid html that is contained within an article asset. does the wysiwig editor do this? or an internal wg funciton? 20:07 < ckotil> bc since i imported all these articles. some of them have some trialing table shit inside them, and i would like for wg to strip that out. 20:07 < ckotil> is there anyway i can automatically do this? or must i view each article in the wysiwig editor? 20:07 <+perlDreamer> it's in WebGUI::Html, that's the internal function 20:08 < ckotil> can i execute a rebuild lineage? or anything like that to do this stripping automatically? 20:08 <+perlDreamer> I think the stripping is done in realtime, during display 20:08 <+perlDreamer> so the bad HTML is still in the db, but not shown 20:08 < ckotil> seems to only strip when i click edit. 20:09 < ckotil> my engineers will bitch. and i dont wnat to have to go through each page and click edit, then save. 20:11 <+perlDreamer> it may have to go through editSave routine for the Article 20:11 <+perlDreamer> Let me get my phone reinstalled, and I'll check 20:11 < ckotil> ok. basically im wondering if there is a way to execute that without actually clicking edit/save 20:23 -!- wgGuest46 [n=wgGuest4@user-24-214-222-222.knology.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:26 <+perlDreamer> ckotil, you created Article assets via the import script? 20:26 < ckotil> yes. 20:26 < ckotil> i grabbed between a tbale tag 20:26 < ckotil> so there are and in the article 20:26 < ckotil> and its f'ing up my site template 20:26 < ckotil> i use tbales in my site. 20:27 <+perlDreamer> from what I've learned, I'd say the clean-up is from the RTE. 20:27 <+perlDreamer> The filter I mentioned is used in limited cases, like the Post and anywhere where a generic user is allowed to submit content. 20:28 < ckotil> ok 20:28 <+perlDreamer> You could write a selenium script to do it 20:28 < ckotil> so the wysiwig editor must be called. 20:28 <+perlDreamer> but then you'd have to install and learn selenium 20:28 <+perlDreamer> It lets you script your browser into automated tasks, usually for testing. 20:29 < ckotil> nah. right now i just attached a n ote to the section. more of a disclaimer: warning: if this is f'ed up simply edit it and save 20:29 <@preaction> the filter is called in processPropertiesFromFormPost 20:29 < ckotil> werd. 20:30 <+perlDreamer> which pPFFP is it called in? 20:30 <@preaction> probably the WebGUI::Asset one 20:31 <@preaction> you can specify a filter for any property 20:31 <+perlDreamer> right, but there's no filter currently set up for the Article's HTMLArea 20:32 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 20:32 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ 20:32 <@preaction> ah, then i durno 20:32 <@rizen> perlDreamer!!!!! 20:32 < gooeybot> perldreamer is bug empowered 20:32 <+perlDreamer> ahoy, dude 20:32 <@preaction> no, gooeybot, perldreamer is 20:32 < gooeybot> okay, preaction. 20:32 <@rizen> i just like shouting out your name for no apparent reason 20:32 <@rizen> =) 20:33 <+perlDreamer> I thought it was because I'd fixed 9 bugs in 7.3.12 20:35 * rizen reading about what we can do to fix the http caching problem once and for all 20:35 <+perlDreamer> rizen: is xtopher command line savvy? 20:35 <@rizen> he's no unix admin....but he can make his way around pretty well 20:36 <+perlDreamer> okay, I'm going to write a script to verify his dbSlaves. I'm sure that he's got some connection problem that's outside of wG's domain. 20:37 <+perlDreamer> we're running out of bugs that I know how to fix 20:37 <+perlDreamer> there are 6 related to the RTE 20:37 <+perlDreamer> maybe 7 20:37 <+perlDreamer> 3 calendar bugs 20:37 <+perlDreamer> and then all the historical bugs that we haven't fixed yet. 20:38 <@rizen> i'm off of support for the next couple of weeks (except fridays) so that i can work on fixing bugs and coding the next wre 20:38 <+perlDreamer> cool. 20:38 <@rizen> 1/3 of the bugs in the list are WRE related...so getting the new wre out will resolve those 20:38 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI sets a new record this week. 20:38 <@rizen> it does? 20:39 <+perlDreamer> Highest subversion released. 20:39 <+perlDreamer> .12 20:39 <@rizen> ah 20:39 <@rizen> hopefully it will make it up to about 16 20:40 <@rizen> i figure around then we'll be releasing 7.4.0 20:40 <@rizen> cuz i'm hoping at about 7.3.14 20:40 <@rizen> we'll be able to finally branch 20:40 <+perlDreamer> that would be 3 more weeks 20:40 <+perlDreamer> sounds pretty doable 20:41 <+perlDreamer> the http caching thing, it's from mlamar? 20:41 < ckotil> http://hastalasiesta.org/stuffs/nakkeTattis.jpg sfw 20:41 <@rizen> yup and others 20:41 <@rizen> it's constantly a question 20:42 <@rizen> to the best of my knowledge we've done what the W3C has said to do...but now i'm looking for things we missed, and loopholes 20:43 <+perlDreamer> there's a pretty stout test for Session/Http. It should help verify any changes. 20:46 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui 20:46 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ 20:57 <@rizen> ok peeps in working on fixing HTTP caching problems that people are experiencing i'm considering implementing something that i wanted to avoid 20:57 <@rizen> and i'd like some feedback 20:57 <@rizen> The Problem: webgui 7.0 above uses W3C defined practices for setting HTTP cache headers 20:58 <@rizen> which means that pages viewable by the public (or in our case the "visitor" user) should be cachable by cache servers 20:58 <@rizen> and pages viewable by logged in users should not cache at all 20:58 <@rizen> we've done what the W3C recommends 20:58 <@rizen> HOWEVER 20:58 <@rizen> when a user visits a page as a visitor 20:59 <@rizen> and then logs in and visits that page again 20:59 <@rizen> their browser and or cache server shows them the page as they saw it the first time 20:59 <@rizen> because the first time it was supposed to be cached...and therefore it doesn't go back to the server 21:00 <@rizen> the browser / cache server has no idea that they've subsequently logged in and therefore the page should no longer be served from cache 21:00 <@rizen> The Solution(s): 21:00 <@rizen> I see only 2 solutions to this problem: 21:00 <@rizen> a) We tell the cache servers and browsers never to cache webgui pages...but then we're increasing the load on the webgui server, but also increasing usability 21:01 <@rizen> b) We tell the cache servers that they need to check back with webgui on every page request to see if it should be updated, and then if we see that the user is logged in, we tell them to request the new page, but... 21:02 <@rizen> this increases load on the server in that it must do both the revalidation, and then possibly a second request to load the page 21:02 < ckotil> c) dont cache for logged in users 21:02 < ckotil> or is that missing something with a) ? 21:02 <@rizen> and the revalidation is almost as hard on the server as rendering a full page in the first place 21:02 <@rizen> ckotil...we already don't cache for logged in users 21:02 < ckotil> ok, so yeah. 21:02 <@rizen> that's what i said duriing the problem section 21:03 < ckotil> right. 21:03 <@rizen> the problem isn't that we're caching for logged in users 21:03 <+perlDreamer> c2) Don't do anything and tell people not to mix dynamic and static content on the same page? 21:03 <@rizen> it's that when a logged in user visits the url of a page that was cached as a visitor...then they see the cahed page 21:04 <@rizen> c2) even a login box (^L;) is dynamic content 21:04 <+perlDreamer> crap. 21:04 <+perlDreamer> so anything we do increases server load 21:04 <@rizen> and so is doing something like ^a(^@);); 21:04 <@rizen> yes 21:04 <@rizen> probably not by much...because i don't think people revisit a page they've already been to very often anyway 21:05 <@rizen> at least not during the cache timeout period 21:05 <@rizen> but..on some sites they might 21:05 <@rizen> and this would then increase the load dramatically on some sites 21:05 <@rizen> on sites like plainblack.com though, it wouldn't change much 21:05 <+perlDreamer> but on Len's soccer sites it would be awful 21:05 <@rizen> actually no 21:06 <@rizen> on len's soccer site they don't use webgui's caching anyway 21:06 <@rizen> they put squid in front of webgui 21:06 <@rizen> so they set their own HTTP cache headers 21:06 <@rizen> but yeah...if they were using webgui...it would probably be aweful 21:06 <+perlDreamer> but if wG tells upstream cache servers not to cache it, would squid just act like a bypass then? 21:07 <+perlDreamer> if so, then (b) is the only viable option 21:07 <@rizen> webgui says "don't cache me", but then squid sits in front of webgui and says "cache me" 21:07 < ckotil> any js solutions? 21:07 -!- mlamar [n=mlamar@130.157.145.49] has joined #webgui 21:07 <@rizen> a and b are both viable 21:08 <@rizen> i think that a is probably the better performer in our case though 21:08 <+perlDreamer> mlamar, you can get an IRC transcription from http://mentalhouse.net/irc/logs/webgui/2007-03.log 21:08 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@c5375184f.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #webgui 21:08 <@rizen> joeri!!! 21:08 -!- [joeri] [n=joeri@ip56503e61.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #webgui 21:09 <@rizen> joeri, you joined twice? 21:09 <+perlDreamer> he gets two votes 21:09 <@rizen> hehe 21:09 < mlamar> I'm sorry not seeing the b option in the log ... what is it? 21:09 < [joeri]> That's strange indeed 21:10 -!- [joeri] [n=joeri@ip56503e61.direct-adsl.nl] has left #webgui [] 21:10 <+perlDreamer> (11:01:40) rizen: b) We tell the cache servers that they need to check back with webgui on every page request to see if it should be updated, and then if we see that the user is logged in, we tell them to request the new page, but... 21:10 < mlamar> I was working on a fix to the login cache probelm that uses preventProxyCache like functionality only for a limited time after a user logs in 21:11 < mlamar> Right now I've added code to Session:Url.pm to put in the "noCache=..." param if a user is logged in, which works well 21:12 <@rizen> it's a nice idea, but it's a hack...i want a permanent solution. you're not the only person who has brought this up 21:12 <@rizen> and it's not only related to logins 21:13 < mlamar> But then even visitors see a big performance hit with no caching ... 21:14 < mlamar> in what other contexts does this problem come up? 21:14 <@rizen> navigation is the biggest one 21:15 <@rizen> on many sites even if there is no login box on the page 21:15 <@rizen> the navigation changes depending upon who is logged in 21:15 <@rizen> due to page privileges 21:15 <@rizen> therefore if you're served the "visitor" page 21:15 <@rizen> you won't have any of your private navigation 21:15 < mlamar> very similar to our problem actually 21:16 <@rizen> but there's all kinds of little things as well...like ^a(^@);); shows the wrong thing...and that confuses users 21:16 <@rizen> mlamar: just so you know 21:16 <@rizen> there is a temporary solution to this 21:17 <@rizen> just turn on preventProxyCache 21:17 <@rizen> i just want a permanent one 21:17 < mlamar> Why do you feel that adding a param to the url is a hack? 21:17 <@rizen> because it's only a solution for that one problem 21:18 <@rizen> it's solving a symptom 21:18 <@rizen> not the actual problem 21:18 < mlamar> It's forcing the browse to refresh the page -- what problem does it not solve? 21:18 <@rizen> it solves the problem directly after login 21:18 <@rizen> but not for the whole site 21:18 <@rizen> for example 21:19 <@rizen> let's say i go to plainblack.com 21:19 <@rizen> and browse around as a visitor 21:19 <@rizen> looking at various message board posts 21:19 <@rizen> wiki pages 21:19 <@rizen> etc 21:19 <@rizen> then i log in 21:19 <@rizen> using your hack 21:19 <@rizen> it works for the page directly after login 21:19 <@rizen> but if i visit any other page after that which i also visited as visitor 21:19 <@rizen> then the page goes back to the cached version 21:20 < mlamar> ahh, but my "hack" keeps the noCache param for any page after I've logged in 21:20 < mlamar> Ideally it should only show once per page after login 21:20 <@rizen> in addition...you're adding BS to the end of the URL just like preventProxyCache 21:20 <@rizen> which is also a hack 21:20 < gooeybot> okay, rizen. 21:20 < mlamar> to implement that we'd need to add some sort of per-page tracking mechinism 21:20 <@rizen> the problem is in the cache control headers 21:20 <@rizen> and i want to fix it in the cache control headers 21:21 <@rizen> any other solution is irrelevant as far as i'm concerned 21:22 < mlamar> well if you can fix it in the cache control headers without significantly impacting performance, then that's great 21:22 < mlamar> if you can't, I'd rather have junk in my urls 21:22 <@rizen> and you can...as you've already said 21:22 -!- wgGuest67 [n=wgGuest6@85-18-14-23.fastres.net] has joined #webgui 21:22 <@rizen> but i don't want junk in my urls 21:22 < mlamar> yes, but I'm hacking the core, which I don't want to do 21:23 <@rizen> and neither do a lot of my clients...as expressed in their angry emails and support posts 21:23 <@rizen> when i tell them to turn on prevent proxy cache 21:23 < mlamar> well it should be a feature that you control in the conf file 21:24 < mlamar> btw, when I use the prevent proxy cache it breaks my macros due to the comma in the middle of the param 21:24 < mlamar> I changed my code to make that a colon instead -- any reason for the comma? 21:24 < wgGuest67> well I'm not behind a proxy and still I have to reload webgui pages most of the time... 21:25 < wgGuest67> to display that I'm logged in as an example 21:25 < mlamar> yes, that is the problem we are discussing 21:25 < wgGuest67> oh... There will be a fix? 21:25 <@rizen> mlamar: yes because it's supposed to be a comma. it's not a name value pair 21:26 <@rizen> If you use macros like ^Extras(some/thing.jpg); or ^/(page-url-goes-here); 21:26 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@c5375184f.cable.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:26 <@rizen> instead of ^Extras;some/thing.jpg 21:26 <@rizen> and ^/;page-url-goes-here 21:26 <@rizen> then it will work as advertised 21:27 <@rizen> what you've done by changing it into a comma is 21:27 <@rizen> created another name value pair, with only a name and no value 21:28 <@rizen> you have 21:28 <@rizen> noCache=0000000;0000 21:28 <@rizen> which is 21:28 <@rizen> noCache = 00000000 21:28 <@rizen> and 21:28 <@rizen> 0000 = 21:28 <@rizen> two separate fields 21:28 < mlamar> not a semi-colon, just a colon noCache=392:1173120127 21:29 <@rizen> oh...sorry, misread 21:29 <@rizen> colon is just fine 21:29 < mlamar> anyway, I don't care what the character is, as long as it doesn't kill my macros 21:29 <@rizen> i'll change it to a colon in the code then 21:29 < mlamar> thanks! 21:30 < wgGuest67> there will be a fix about the caching issue? 21:30 < mlamar> I gotta go to a lunch meeting, so I'm signing off. Let me know what you decide about the cache problem. -- good to talk to you all. 21:31 -!- mlamar [n=mlamar@130.157.145.49] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:31 < wgGuest67> also in this post http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/dev/discuss/trashing-uncommitted-assets-in-the-clipboard/5 21:31 < wgGuest67> there is On Saturday 03 March 2007 16:15, jt@plainblack.com wrote: 21:32 < wgGuest67> isn't this bad for spam/security? 21:32 <@rizen> max, why do you keep coming back? 21:33 < wgGuest67> cause I made the transition to WebGUI for my website 21:33 <@rizen> but you hate webgui, and you hate me 21:34 < wgGuest67> no I don't 21:34 <@rizen> you've clearly shown your disgust for both of us, and i might mention doug and a few other people as well in your posts 21:34 < wgGuest67> I think you're not the best guy in the world.. But who's perfect 21:34 < wgGuest67> Indeed, I'm not the only one that said those kind of things 21:35 < wgGuest67> glaven.org anyone? 21:35 <@rizen> but he left webgui behind 21:35 <@rizen> he doesn't keep coming back 21:35 < wgGuest67> Because he left the company that was using webgui 21:36 <@rizen> and he was also pissed because he was fired from the job 21:36 <@rizen> that was using webgui 21:36 < wgGuest67> and in the comments other people agree 21:36 <@rizen> yeah...but they don't keep coming back 21:36 < wgGuest67> btw I don't want to start another flame, unlike you seem to do 21:36 <@rizen> that's the key here 21:36 <@rizen> i do want to start another flame, because you don't ask questions...you demand answers 21:37 <@rizen> that's the difference between you and 90% of the other users in the webgui 21:37 <@rizen> community 21:37 < gooeybot> i think community is far more diverse than irc would have you believe 21:37 <@rizen> i'm not talking about irc 21:37 < wgGuest67> Nope I just ask for questions 21:37 <@rizen> i'm talking about people on support boards, forums, mailing lists, bug reports, client phone calls, etc 21:38 < wgGuest67> wait I have a video I recently saw I want to recommend you. Wanna see it? 21:38 <@rizen> if i say no will you send it anyway? 21:38 < wgGuest67> it's a cool video (a conference) believe me 21:39 <@rizen> the answers to your questions above are: yes, and no, in that order 21:39 < wgGuest67> It's a bit long but it's worth it. The part I refer to anyway is about in the middle 21:39 < wgGuest67> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6765603919277760697 21:39 < pjesi> is it not kind of extra overhead to import ical feed to other calendar assets on the same site? 21:40 < wgGuest67> that guys is what you call a real Pro 21:40 < wgGuest67> and he says a lot of the things I said 21:40 < wgGuest67> about open source communities, feedback, etc. 21:41 < wgGuest67> guys = guy 21:41 <@rizen> pjesi: it's overhead from a data storage point of view..but from a display processing point of view (which is 90% of the work), it's less 21:43 < pjesi> rizen: ok but do I need some cronjob to get the thing imported? 21:43 <@rizen> the workflow engine will do it for you 21:43 < wgGuest67> about my questions: 1. that's great. 2. why no? There's an email address that spam robots can easily crawl 21:44 < pjesi> I added the feed earlier today but it does not show up 21:45 <@rizen> pjesi: check to see which of the maintenance workflows it's part of 21:45 <@rizen> i don't remember if it's daily or hourly 21:45 <+perlDreamer> pjesi: I think you have to make sure that the CalendarUpdateFeeds workflow activity is being run. 21:46 < pjesi> I see 21:46 < pjesi> never touched the workflows 21:47 < pjesi> it would be nice to have a import button on the feed tab 21:47 <+perlDreamer> it looks like it is in Hourly Maintenance Tasks 21:47 <@rizen> yup that would be good 21:47 <@rizen> you know where the rfe list is? 21:48 < pjesi> I think so 21:48 * perlDreamer goes running. be back later 21:48 < pjesi> hf 21:49 < wgGuest67> that's the same bug I reported here more than 10 days ago I guess 21:50 < pjesi> it is not a bug 21:50 <@rizen> max, that's another thing about you...if you want us to be responsive to you, then you need to understand that not everything is a bug 21:50 <@rizen> with you...if it's not how you want it to be, it's a bug 21:50 <@rizen> but that's not how it is 21:51 < wgGuest67> Not at all... Probably I misread now. I was referring to the feeds not being updated by the workflow 21:51 < wgGuest67> you're discussing about something different? 21:51 <@rizen> my comment was made in general 21:51 <@rizen> not about that specific thing 21:52 < wgGuest67> whatever, if now I'm right where's the deal? 21:52 <@rizen> and finally...you argue every last thing 21:52 < wgGuest67> we start again... 21:52 < wgGuest67> so what about that video and my last question? 21:52 <@rizen> please understand that as far as i'm concerned...YOU (and only you) are NOT welcome here 21:53 < wgGuest67> that's some news 21:53 -!- snapcount_ is now known as snapcount 21:53 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ 21:54 < wgGuest67> the glaven.org guy is right when he says: you might be CEO of big company X, but plainblack staff will always be rude 21:54 -!- mode/#webgui [+b *!*@85-18-14-23.fastres.net] by snapcount 21:54 -!- wgGuest67 was kicked from #webgui by snapcount [snapcount] 21:57 < SDuensin> Who was that twit? 21:58 * SDuensin quite likes Plain Black. 21:58 <@rizen> his name is maxscience 21:58 <@rizen> he constantly badmouths me, my staff, my company, and webgui to all who will listen 21:58 <@rizen> but also uses webgui 21:59 < SDuensin> Gotta love that. 21:59 <@rizen> because is in his words (paraphrasing) "webgui is a pile of crap, but it's the best pile of crap out there" 22:00 <@rizen> people can bad mouth me, plain black, and webgui all they want. we're public figures and so we'll get critics...but when they start bad mouthing my peeps...that's when it has gone so far 22:00 < SDuensin> :-) 22:00 <@rizen> he's the only person i've ever asked to leave the community 22:01 <@rizen> that was 6 months ago. he keeps coming back every couple of months, but with a new name 22:02 <@snapcount> well, before he comes back in here he'll have to change IP addresses 22:02 < SDuensin> hehe 22:02 <@snapcount> I tried so hard with that guy 22:03 <@snapcount> oh well, can't save 'em all 22:06 <@rizen> i wish i knew his real name and address, i'd put an explicit exclusion in the license file just for him 22:06 < SDuensin> hehehe 22:06 < pjesi> hahahha 22:06 < SDuensin> whois his domain 22:07 < pjesi> then you could not license it as GPL 22:07 < pjesi> (I think) 22:07 <@rizen> no one knows his name 22:07 <@rizen> i mean domain name 22:07 <@rizen> his email address is gmail 22:07 <@rizen> and his ip address is some residental network in italy 22:21 <@snapcount> I have absolutely no problem banning the entire country of Italy =D 22:21 <@snapcount> I'm kidding 22:21 < SDuensin> Give the boot the boot! 22:49 < ckotil> heh 22:49 < ckotil> SDuensin: clever 23:06 <@rizen> perlDreamer 23:06 <@rizen> i'm talking to my data entry person who's going to move all the help into the wiki 23:06 <@rizen> do you think all the macros should be moved as well? 23:06 < SDuensin> WIKI!!!!! 23:06 < gooeybot> well, wiki is http://wiki.webgui.org or yet another place to get help with WebGUI 23:06 <@rizen> i think they should be 23:11 <+perlDreamer> I'd like to make an argument against doing that, but it's not a strong one 23:11 <@snapcount> I OBJECT 23:11 <+perlDreamer> We're leaving things in that could be used for dynamic help, like fields and template variables. 23:11 <@snapcount> sorry... I get overly excited sometimes 23:11 <+perlDreamer> I could see having pop-up macro help as well 23:11 <+perlDreamer> arguments and a 1-liner 23:12 <+perlDreamer> snapcount, when you object, you need to instance first :) 23:12 < SDuensin> Maybe he's static? 23:12 <+perlDreamer> singleton? 23:13 <+perlDreamer> where did he go? 23:13 <+perlDreamer> rizen? 23:13 < gooeybot> i heard rizen was a prolific php writer don't you know 23:13 <@rizen> yes 23:13 <+perlDreamer> what do you think about my counter argument about macros? 23:13 <@rizen> for now i'm going to have her copy over the macro pages 23:13 <+perlDreamer> cool 23:14 <@rizen> i think that even if we do decide to add macros to the template editor, that we'll have to create new help for the macros 23:14 <+perlDreamer> that makes sense 23:14 <@rizen> cuz they don't fit the mould of the template variables 23:14 <@snapcount> my $objection = Roys::Simple::Mind->new("dumby")->objection("Are you saying that an African Swallow carried those coconuts..."); 23:14 <@rizen> $objection->purge; 23:15 <@snapcount> you purged my brain 23:15 <+MrHairgrease> what brauin? 23:15 <@rizen> no...you created an objection object 23:15 <@snapcount> that was a Roys::Simple::Mind object you destroyed 23:15 <@rizen> nope 23:15 <@rizen> read your code again 23:15 < ckotil> http://www.andrewlipson.com/lego.htm 23:15 <@snapcount> oh your right 23:15 <@snapcount> damn you 23:15 <@rizen> your code doesn't return a roy's simple brain object 23:15 <@rizen> instead, it passes it forward into a method 23:16 <@rizen> which appears to create a reference to an objection 23:16 <@rizen> which i assumed was an object 23:16 <@rizen> the reference could have just been a reference id 23:16 <@rizen> but if that's the case, then you misnamed the variable 23:16 <@snapcount> the people rest your honor 23:17 <+perlDreamer> nice site, ckotil 23:17 <+perlDreamer> I can't believe that max complained that it would take up to an hour to fetch an ical feed. 23:17 <@snapcount> blasphamy 23:17 <@snapcount> 23:17 <@snapcount> that should say WebGUI ckotil 23:18 < ckotil> heh. 23:18 < ckotil> not my site 23:18 <@snapcount> but legos rule 23:18 < ckotil> my site does say webgui now. http://blizzie.net 23:18 <+perlDreamer> snapcount: have you done any motors work? servos, etc.? 23:18 <@rizen> roy: xtopher want's to make the dbslave bug a priority request 23:19 <@rizen> which means it's now your priority request since you're on support duty 23:19 <@snapcount> awesome 23:19 <+perlDreamer> I finished that dbSlave checking script, btw 23:19 <+perlDreamer> it may help with that 23:19 <+perlDreamer> I'll attach it to the bug. 23:20 <+MrHairgrease> rizzen 23:20 <+MrHairgrease> i read:"Citizenship: We work on restricted commercial and Federal projects, so we can only accept applications from full United States citizens." 23:21 <+MrHairgrease> does that mean you're not trying to hire eurotrash anymore =) 23:21 <+MrHairgrease> ofcourse i meant fashionable eurotrash =) 23:22 <+perlDreamer> highly educated, fashionable, eurotrash 23:23 <+MrHairgrease> perlDreamer 23:23 <+MrHairgrease> you must be drunk 23:23 <+MrHairgrease> obviously you mean highly educated, fashionable, eurotrash with intense sex-appeal 23:23 <+MrHairgrease> =) 23:23 <+perlDreamer> Personally, I don't find you that sexy 23:24 <+perlDreamer> It's your genetic condition 23:24 <+MrHairgrease> that's because you're not a trashy european 23:24 <+perlDreamer> Get rid of that nasty Y chromosome, and we could talk 23:24 <+MrHairgrease> and who said I needed a job 23:24 <+MrHairgrease> no no 23:24 <+MrHairgrease> i like my chromosomes just where they are 23:26 <@rizen> MrHairGrease...of course not 23:26 <@rizen> it doesn't mean we can't use contractors from anywhere we want 23:27 <@rizen> it just means that contractors (and employees) can't be non-citizens for the restricted projects 23:27 <@rizen> so for all the other projects they can be 23:27 <+MrHairgrease> yeah 23:27 <+MrHairgrease> i figured 23:28 <@rizen> the thing is, that this new employee's job will be working on these restricted projects about 90% of the time 23:28 <+MrHairgrease> i just saw an opportunity to use the eufemism eurotrash 23:28 <@rizen> i c 23:28 <@rizen> use away...i can't stand eurotrash anyway 23:28 <@rizen> especially highly educated, fashionable, eurotrash with intense sex-appeal 23:29 <+MrHairgrease> is this another fy rizen moment 23:29 <@rizen> isn't it always? 23:29 <+MrHairgrease> or is it actually 23:29 <+MrHairgrease> a compliment 23:29 <+MrHairgrease> i think it is the latter 23:29 <+MrHairgrease> oh 23:29 <+MrHairgrease> if you say so =) 23:30 <@snapcount> rizen: can you test dbslaves using the same mysql server so long as it is a seperate database? 23:30 <@snapcount> that should work... 23:31 <@rizen> don't see why not 23:31 <@snapcount> ok... just wanted to make sure it wouldn't trigger some kind of strange voodoo 23:31 <@rizen> even with the same database it should work...but that may not then show the errir 23:32 <@rizen> s/errir/error/ 23:32 <+perlDreamer> snapcount: I just posted that script for testing db slave connections 23:32 <@snapcount> how do I know I can trust you... aren't you from the west coast? 23:35 <@rizen> yeah, he's one of those west coast conservative liberal hippy nazi's 23:37 <+perlDreamer> Just call me moonunit, and pass the organic hummus and rice cakes, please 23:37 <+perlDreamer> it's in the contrib's section 23:37 <@rizen> no..that's only showing your hippy side 23:37 <@rizen> what about your nazi side 23:38 <@rizen> and you put nothing about your conservative and liberal sides in there 23:38 <@rizen> i think to define perlDreamer, you must state that he he somewhere between communism and fascism on the conservative/liberal scale of things 23:39 <@snapcount> well said 23:40 <+perlDreamer> and all my scripts are above board 23:40 <+perlDreamer> the only time to be worried is when I tell you to do a force install via the CPAN module 23:40 <+perlDreamer> ...that's when I sneak in the trojan code 23:40 <@rizen> communism > socialsim > liberal democracy > conservative democracy > fascism > theocracy 23:40 <+perlDreamer> you should see the way some people run their network operations facilities 23:40 <+perlDreamer> messy, messy, messy 23:42 <+perlDreamer> MrHairGrease: why are your neighbors rioting over in Denmark? 23:46 <@rizen> ok, i think i have a solution to the caching problem that won't be too heavy 23:47 <@rizen> if we set Cache-Control: must-revalidate 23:47 <+perlDreamer> sweet 23:47 <@rizen> in all of our headers 23:47 <@rizen> the browser will then send a request back to webgui on each page view that contains: 23:47 <@rizen> If-Modified-Since: Sun, 14 May 2006 21:35:14 GMT 23:47 <@rizen> We can check for the existence of the If-Modified-Since variable 23:48 <@rizen> and also to see if the user is logged in 23:48 <@rizen> if they are not logged in, then we return a "304 Not Modified" response 23:48 <@rizen> If they are logged in, we return the content of the page 23:49 <@rizen> by doing that simple check..it's a little harder on the server (than not checking at all) because it still has to instanciate the session 23:49 <@rizen> but it's not nearly so hard as actually instanciating an asset 23:49 <@rizen> to see if it has been modified 23:50 <@rizen> and because we short circuit the request 23:50 <@rizen> we can either send back content (if the user is logged in), or only send back that HTTP header (if they aren't logged in) 23:50 <+perlDreamer> it sounds like all the changes will be localized to the mod_perl handler 23:51 <+perlDreamer> and maybe Session/Http 23:51 <@rizen> i think so 23:51 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@242.sub-75-206-99.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:52 <@rizen> can anyone poke holes in that plan? 23:52 <@rizen> see any downsides? 23:55 <+perlDreamer> has anyone ever checked to see how the other CMS'es handle it? 23:57 -!- streamlines [n=streamli@wsip-68-110-129-224.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #webgui --- Day changed Tue Mar 06 2007 00:01 <+MrHairgrease> rizen: sounds good 00:01 <+MrHairgrease> perldreamer: what neighbors and which riots 00:02 <@rizen> i looked at a handful 00:02 <@rizen> and almost none of them implement cache control at all 00:02 <@rizen> the only one i found that does it, is Drupal, and then only by manually patching the system via instructions in a mailing list post 00:03 <@rizen> we seem to be the only ones following the W3's rules for cache control headers 00:03 <@rizen> which happen to be the RFC for the HTTP 1.1 protocol too 00:04 <@rizen> a couple of the other ones also mention enabling it using Apache directives...but they have no direct control over it in the code 00:04 <@rizen> they just either force it on/off for certain file types, or serverwide 00:05 <@rizen> i also found an article about cache control that said that most CMS's don't implement cache control because the larger they are the harder it is to implement 00:05 <@rizen> which seems to back up what i found when ii looked at a few others 00:05 <+perlDreamer> I was just thinking we should make sure we aren't missing something else easy. 00:05 <+perlDreamer> The idea sounds good to me. 00:06 <@rizen> well the "easy" solution is to just not implement cache control 00:06 <@rizen> that seems to be the approach everyone else takes 00:06 <+perlDreamer> plus, fully functional W3C HTTP compliance might be another good selling point for wG. 00:06 -!- snapcount changed the topic of #webgui to: New Contest Open -- Acme Code Contribution -- Win $$$ and Karma (www.plainblack.com/wcc) 00:07 <@rizen> ok...since there don't seem to be any dissenting opinions, i'm going to go ahead and implement this 00:07 <@rizen> i'll of course test before committing to make sure it does what i think it's going to do 00:08 <@rizen> i set up HTTP::Proxy to monitor the headers between my dev server and my browser to make sure they're sending the right things back and forth 00:09 * perlDreamer gets sent to the showers 00:29 -!- TheSeparator [i=Seppie@cp43027-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has quit [] 00:40 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [] 00:41 -!- snapcount [n=snapcoun@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 00:51 -!- snapcount [n=snapcoun@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit ["Snak 5.1.5 IRC For Macintosh - http://www.snak.com"] 00:53 < Radix_> http://www.plainblack.com/etcetera/google-summer-of-code#idTKMZsMg-ffjxAfxkJDs4SA 01:00 <+perlDreamer> It's a great idea! 02:19 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui 02:23 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] 02:29 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has quit [""""] 02:42 < Radix-wrk> rizen: Seems unfair if WebGUI gets rejected and yet Drupal/Plone/etc can all participate. Any reason as to why it was rejected for GSOC in the past? 03:16 -!- streamlines [n=streamli@wsip-68-110-129-224.ga.at.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:20 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui 03:20 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 03:31 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:56 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui 03:56 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 04:04 -!- streamlines [n=streamli@wsip-68-110-129-224.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #webgui 04:07 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI 04:14 < Radix-wrk> http://youtube.com/watch?v=sMp8mSRiHow 04:14 < Radix-wrk> "Violence of the Lambs" 04:31 <@preaction> that actually looks pretty decent 04:31 <@preaction> for a B-movie horror-style 04:41 < streamlines> preactin, several days ago you pointed me to mod_rewrite. Indeed black magic. My ssl problem at the time turned out to be a typo in a conf file. Now however.... 04:42 < streamlines> Now I've got a new question: similar topic. Seen this asked over and over in the forums ...I just need a clue to go on....not asking for support 04:43 < streamlines> When a page is set to "encrypt content", which rewrite hooks/directives best to use to make sure that.... 04:44 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:44 < streamlines> non-https pages navigated to subsequently are not served https 04:46 < streamlines> Just using default WG setups, navs, etc. The goal is to have only pages under /mymenuitem server https. But seems like matching /mymenuitem would be cheating. 04:46 < streamlines> how best to do this for any/all pages flagged in WG admin as "encrypt content?" 04:47 < streamlines> sorry typo above: should read "pages under /mymenuitem *SERVED* https"? 04:47 <@preaction> the reason that the encrypt content flag doesn't work with the WRE is because HTTPS is only handled by the proxy, the proxy does an unencrypted request to the mod_perl instance to get the page's data 04:48 <@preaction> so to fix that bug, you'd have to find a way to figure out if any part of the request is being served HTTPS 04:48 <@preaction> or rather, that everything up to and including the mod_proxy request is being served HTTPS 04:49 <@preaction> in other words: you're going to probably have to do what you want on a per-case basis 04:50 <@preaction> i believe as part of the 0.8 cycle of WRE development will be a web-based GUI configuration tool, as part of that tool might a "Force SSL for these pages" utility 04:50 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui 04:50 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 04:50 <+perlDreamer> stupid wireless notebook card 04:50 < streamlines> I read that. what about a rewrite rule using some env vars like referrer, is subreq, etc? no one's done that? 04:51 <@preaction> referer isn't changed by the proxy? as for others, if you can find a way to fix that bug, i'm sure the community would be very grateful 04:52 < streamlines> I'm not sure if this is good ettiquete to ask, but a usere here several days ago was working in the same direction. cap10morgan, I racall. 04:52 < streamlines> is he/she a regular here, or maybe has an ID on the lists I can contact thru? 04:53 <+perlDreamer> cap10morgan posts on the boards sometimes 04:53 < streamlines> and the only way to contact is to post back to the board? 04:53 <+perlDreamer> maybe 04:53 <+perlDreamer> probably 04:54 < streamlines> I mean, would it make sens to reply to a thread several months old? 04:54 <+perlDreamer> sure 04:54 <@preaction> it's still relevant, it's still a bug 04:54 < streamlines> I'm still all very new at the community thing. 04:54 <+perlDreamer> the IRC logger hasn't caught up yet, what's the bug? 04:54 <+perlDreamer> streamlines: you're doing fine. If you're out of line, we'll let you know 04:54 <@preaction> WRE doesn't work with WebGUI's "Force Encrypt" toggle on a page 04:54 < streamlines> OK. thanks. 04:54 <+perlDreamer> oh, that's a good one. 04:55 <+perlDreamer> offhand, I'd say IRC rule #1 is don't bash people. 04:55 <+perlDreamer> rule #2 would be understand that not everything that you think is a bug is a bug 04:55 <+perlDreamer> rule #3 would be just ask, and don't worry 04:55 < streamlines> But that's not really what I'm hoping to address. I'm not sure Id call that a bug, in that I believe that is quite advanced....and probably can be accomplished with someone wh oknows mod_rewrie/mod_proxy well. 04:56 < streamlines> funny you just said rule 2 I wasn't readling (have to look at keyboard) .... 04:56 < streamlines> and I was ack'ing that I don't really think its a bug. 04:56 < streamlines> it just takes above-average coding/config to get by. 04:57 <+perlDreamer> in any case, you did the right thing. 04:57 <+perlDreamer> I'd agree with preaction that it's a WRE bug 04:57 <+perlDreamer> since wG works one way stand-alone, and another way with the WRE 04:57 <+perlDreamer> and if you can fix it, all the better. 04:57 <@preaction> i think it might be a WebGUI bug. in essence, force encrypt would not work with any sort of advanced proxy system 04:58 <@preaction> since it tries to detect from the environment, iirc 04:59 < streamlines> yes, yes, of course you guys define waht bugs are...I'm still monkeying aroud with external compenents....after readin through apache docs, and googling for some time I KNOW i can use rewrite rules to get what I want...I just not sure how. 04:59 < streamlines> what you mean iirc, preaction? 04:59 <@preaction> perlbot iirc 04:59 < perlbot> If I Remember Correctly 05:00 < streamlines> aha. 05:00 <+perlDreamer> be back in 30, have to put kids to bed 05:00 < streamlines> perlbot snack 05:00 <@preaction> botsnack, perlbot 05:00 < perlbot> OMG thank youuuuuu!! :-)!! 05:00 <@preaction> that one changes every time i check it 05:00 <@preaction> perlbot relearn botsnack as I'm not your prank monkey 05:00 < perlbot> relearned entry for botsnack 05:00 < streamlines> :-) memory bad. 05:01 < streamlines> I thought you had to "address" him ie call perlbot first! 05:01 <@preaction> you can 05:01 <@preaction> perlbot botsnack 05:01 < perlbot> I'm not your prank monkey 05:01 <@preaction> or you can postfix it 05:01 <@preaction> hello, perlbot 05:01 < perlbot> hello preaction 05:01 < streamlines> but not midsentence, must end or begin eith "perlbot" 05:01 <@preaction> anyway: forcing HTTPS using Rewrite Rules 05:01 < streamlines> ? 05:02 <@preaction> correct 05:02 < streamlines> mmm.... 05:02 < streamlines> I've forced the https part... 05:02 < streamlines> I just now want to force back to http coming from https. 05:03 <@preaction> the usual answer to that is "it's not bad to keep people in https" 05:04 <@preaction> otherwise, in your , add a RewriteCond !^/ssl_page # followed by: RewriteRule /(.+) http://yourhost.com/$1 [R,L] 05:04 <@preaction> basically: your RewriteCond says "Only run the next RewriteRule if this is true, the condition being the user is NOT in the part of the site you designated as SSL" 05:05 < streamlines> I've heard thatRE: ssl not bad. and whatif site is be very high traffic? i.e. top hit on google 05:05 <@preaction> if you're being slashdotted, you probably will have bigger problems than the performance hit for the SSL encrypt/decrypt routines 05:05 < streamlines> Yes. I saw the "odd" but logical sequence of processing with the rewrite conds 05:05 <@preaction> but still, the above thing (or something similar) should work 05:06 <@preaction> if you want more portions to be allowed SSL, just add [OR] to the end of the RewriteCond, and add another RewriteCond 05:06 < Radix-wrk> We're using SSL with the WRE, but we prettymuch use SSL for everything from the point the user logs in 05:06 <@preaction> look at the Apache2.0 docs for more information on that 05:07 < Radix-wrk> I just set up SSL in the modproxy config 05:07 <@preaction> had a client do, i swear, 40 different RewriteCond/RewriteRule pairs, where the RewriteRule was exactly the same for each different RewriteCond. I laughed 05:07 < Radix-wrk> and ticking the box in webgui to use encrypted login worked fine 05:08 < streamlines> I wasn't using a REwrite cond yet. I thought that https:// prefix would automatically send to vhost:443, so I figured I wasn't needing a cond (since I was happily arriving at my https pages "that were told to encrypt content" 05:09 < Radix-wrk> our rewrites are much the same for the vhost:443 as they are for vhost:80 05:10 < streamlines> YEs, my :80 and :443 look almost identical. What about a ProxyPassRevers after to rewrite rule? essential to get back to http? 05:11 < Radix-wrk> ProxyPassRevers? not ever heard of that 05:11 <@preaction> streamlines: maybe put your config in a pastebin? 05:11 <@preaction> pastebin? 05:11 < gooeybot> i guess pastebin is magic 8ball says "Try again" 05:11 <@preaction> pastebin? 05:11 < gooeybot> pastebin is probably http://pastebin.ca 05:12 < streamlines> sorry bad typing. I'll find a pastebin. 05:15 < streamlines> ha. pastebin: http://www.pastebin.ca/383110 05:16 < Radix-wrk> bout to head off for lunch - but my (working) SSL config is here: http://pastebin.ca/383108 - it's not perfect as the user always stays in SSL after logging in, but it works for us. 05:17 < streamlines> Thansks Radix-wrk. Enjoy. that's exactly what mine does. I just wish it wouldn't. If you folks know how to get round this 05:17 < streamlines> I mean behavior is identical...I haven't lokad at your pastebin yet. 05:18 < Radix-wrk> yup.. yours looks the same as mine.. just not the proxypassreverse bit 05:19 < streamlines> FRom my reading, one can use ProxyPAss (from mod_proxy) to rev proxy, but mod_rewite rules can do the same but more powerfule. 05:20 < streamlines> But each time I see a proxy pass (and in many cases when I see a rewrte intended to proxy) I see a correspondey Revers rule. Maybe I'm googling on the wrong planet :-) 05:21 < streamlines> ie. proxypass roughtly equiv. Rewriterule for proxy. Examples that uses either are usually followed by a "Reverse" rule. 05:21 < streamlines> I'll find a link. 05:23 < streamlines> http://lenya.apache.org/docs/1_2_x/tutorial/mod_proxy_and_lenya.html 05:23 <@preaction> looks like PPR is a good idea, just seems superfluous in the WRE setup. I'll admit that i'm far outside my expertise on this one 05:24 < streamlines> so you mean I've been studying RFC's for nothing? :-) 05:24 < streamlines> just clowing. =) 05:24 <@preaction> not for nothing: knowledge is knowledge :p 05:25 <@preaction> looks like PPR just does some magic if the proxied site happens to send Redirect responses or otherwise 05:25 < streamlines> and I thought a reverse proxy is a reverse proxy. YOu see how the one at the lenya page uses PPR? 05:25 < streamlines> mmm....I wish I could read/write regexps like you guys. 05:26 <@preaction> the trick is to take it slow, very slow 05:27 <@preaction> also keep a good docs next to you 05:27 <@preaction> perlbot perlretut 05:27 < perlbot> Perl regular expressions tutorial - http://perldoc.perl.org/perlretut.html 05:27 <@preaction> perlbot perlre 05:27 < perlbot> Perl regular expressions - http://www.perldoc.com/perl5.8.0/pod/perlre.html 05:30 < streamlines> Kinda like reading music. 05:30 < streamlines> Takes time to get into it. 05:30 <@preaction> exactly. it's a lot of information packed into a very very small area 05:32 < streamlines> I was hoping WG would be the consultants rapid-deploy swiss army knoife for dozens of sites. As the electric guitar, WG rocks. 05:36 <@preaction> give it time, for this client project i wrote about a half-dozen completely divergent applications in the span of a month 05:36 < streamlines> I always regretted not taking time to sweat thru the guitar lessons and to let the fingertips bleed thru practice. Been busy. M y problem is I don't really have the time. I've got some funds tho. 05:37 < streamlines> Although maybe that won't even help, in this case? I mean, sounds like its a bug on the horizon to be fixed? 05:37 <@preaction> the force SSL thing? 05:38 <@preaction> i think it's going to be supplanted by the WRE's new GUI admin thing. or something 05:38 < streamlines> yes. Not just force, mind you. I got SSL working instantly when I tole WG encrypt content. 05:39 < streamlines> I'm trying to setup a store--it not the login time that matters. Its the parts when users browse thru and add stuff to cart etc. 05:39 <@preaction> really only the checkout part when they enter their credit card matters, and that's an operation, meaning they could potentially access it from any page they wanted 05:40 <@preaction> try: http://yoursite.com/?op=checkout 05:40 < streamlines> yes. except perception is key. You've seen the new "green titelbar ssl extended validation thing? 05:40 <@preaction> yeah 05:41 < streamlines> for most users, there' isnt any more enryption---really. 05:41 < streamlines> not practically. 05:41 < streamlines> but their titlebar goes green. 05:41 <@preaction> or yellow in Firefox? 05:41 <@preaction> maybe i haven't seen it 05:42 < streamlines> perception. green/yellow something like that. sells certificates like hot bread. VErisign happy. 05:42 <@preaction> right, the illusion of safety, but it's what's necessary 05:42 < streamlines> the stats suggest that people will QUICKY,. readiyl buy ie checkout 05:42 <@preaction> so the problem is forcing out of SSL? 05:43 < streamlines> if they feel safe. I say, let them feel safe once they enter the store. Tradeoff is that the whole store has the "saftey feel" 05:43 < streamlines> not just when cc data is entered. 05:44 <@preaction> which isn't a problem. anything to get the customer more willing to open their wallet 05:44 < streamlines> plus one could alwasy be snooping/sniffing/profiling their surfing. they fear technologly. yes, agreed. 05:45 < streamlines> so I was sayin taht I'll already pay a "toll' by having the "store" ssl, 05:45 < streamlines> I'd rather not have the rest of all the other pages. 05:45 < streamlines> just a preference ' really. 05:45 <@preaction> it's minimal. processor cycles are far less expensive than programmer time :p 05:45 < streamlines> sometimes we have to listen to the client too. 05:45 < streamlines> :-) 05:45 <@preaction> oh, they want it? 05:46 < streamlines> I'm tryingto figure how to get them to pay PB to do this. 05:46 <@preaction> i can convince a fellow developer, it's clients that i tend to just swallow my objections 05:46 < streamlines> they got sold on the green bar. 05:46 <@preaction> i can find ways to do some really evil stuff, i just dont like it 05:46 < streamlines> quick and dirty. how much time , you estimate? 05:47 <@preaction> to write the rewrite rules? given an exact list of directories that need to be SSL and that need to not be SSL? 05:48 <@preaction> what other criterion? 05:48 < streamlines> Y'know, its the whoel list of directorieds thing I dont like. 05:49 <@preaction> you just want anything that's not marked as "encrypt content" to be forced out of SSL if it's in SSL 05:49 < streamlines> Thats it. 05:49 <@preaction> and it needs to work for the WRE 05:50 < streamlines> precisely. well, the box I've installed is WRE. 05:50 < streamlines> WE could reinstall, if that would make life easire for everyone. 05:50 <@preaction> nono, just defining the parameters 05:52 <@preaction> okay, from the code: it looks like the encryptPage property merely changes the URL returned by getUrl 05:53 < streamlines> I'm already out of pocket and behind schedule...so the fastest way out is my thing at this point. 05:53 < streamlines> I haven't been into the perl yet. getUrl? 05:53 <@preaction> how much Perl do you know? 05:54 < streamlines> I've been messing with the environmental things. Dunno how to define that. Covered Larry's Learning Perl. 05:54 < streamlines> Have most of the reference material., 05:55 <@preaction> this is theoretically a four-line change to the code, starting in lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm line 1074 05:55 < streamlines> O'reilly mostly. writeen a few things here and there just to process logfiles or...eh? 05:56 <@preaction> i mean, you could patch your webgui to do what you want it to 05:56 < streamlines> But isn't code changing strongly discouraged? what about upgrade paths etc. (I know I sadi fastest way). 05:56 <@preaction> keep a patch 05:56 <@preaction> er.. a diff... i forget the exact syntax 05:57 < streamlines> Ok. I think I could handle that. 05:57 <@preaction> diff -un WebGUI_7.3.10 WebGUI_Modified 05:57 <@preaction> or something 05:58 < streamlines> I'll hunt through and then consult with PB if I run into trouble--you think---two hour minimum can cover it? 05:58 <@preaction> you could use that patch and attach it to an RFE, with a message saying that perhaps it should be a site setting or a configuration value ("Minimal SSL" or something) 05:58 <@preaction> depending on how it's decided to be implemented, it seems fairly simple 05:58 <@preaction> the sales dept. would know more 05:59 < streamlines> phew. Maybe upcoming in version 7.4? 05:59 <@preaction> if you submit an RFE, or if there exists an RFE for it already, pump some karma into it 05:59 <@preaction> or post to the RFE what i've told you, the four-line change starting at 1074 of WebGUI::Asset 06:00 <@preaction> or if you fix it yourself, post your patch. if JT approves, it'll probably be added right away to 7.4, since it is such a small thing really 06:01 < streamlines> I don't have much karma just about hundred. OK, I'll give it a shot. BTW, the webcast tomorrow is 10:00AM *CST?* 06:02 < streamlines> thak you for pointing that way. I can tell the RFE's are important. how do they help PB? just directional, give the users what they want type feedbackl? 06:02 <@preaction> yes, CST 06:03 <@preaction> as a rule: for every minor version (7.X), the highest karma RFE is implemented. it also, yes, provides feedback for what people want to see in WebGUI 06:03 <@preaction> we're getting confused here: WebGUI is WebGUI, Plainblack just gets paid to do WebGUI ;) 06:04 <@preaction> as the community re-organizes, hopefully we'll get some more community devs 06:05 < streamlines> Oh, i see. Gotcha. When I get WG to work I'll post all over cyberspace. 06:05 <+perlDreamer> yeah 06:05 < streamlines> SIcen I typically thing I don't know what I'm doing, I tend to keep quite. you'll notinc that even here, I just lurk. what could I possibly contribute? But if I do fixx this 06:06 <+perlDreamer> the current community devs are getting tired 06:06 < streamlines> 06:06 < streamlines> I'll be sure to tell. 06:06 < streamlines> yell. 06:06 <@preaction> there are plenty of bugs on the buglist 06:06 <+perlDreamer> I know 06:06 <+perlDreamer> I've fixed 10 of them since Wednesday 06:07 <@preaction> i'm giving streamlines some things he could help contribute ;) 06:07 <+perlDreamer> oh 06:07 <+perlDreamer> yeah, streamlines, fix some bugs! 06:07 <@preaction> some of the code documentation needs auditing 06:07 <+perlDreamer> we always need more API tests 06:07 <@preaction> unit tests 06:07 < gooeybot> unit tests are an amazing thing for finding bugs. 06:07 <@preaction> yes 06:07 <+perlDreamer> preaction's car needs washing 06:08 <+perlDreamer> wait a minute 06:08 <@preaction> you have no idea 06:08 <@preaction> if i had a man-servant, i'd be able to work more! ;) 06:08 <+perlDreamer> hackers of the world, unite! 06:08 < streamlines> Thanks folks. I try to to take without giving. I'll do the whatever I can. but its tough when one feels like one knows absolutely nothing. 06:08 < streamlines> 06:09 <+perlDreamer> good night, guys 06:09 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:09 -!- preaction changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.3.10 | WRE 0.7.2 ][ New Contest Open -- Acme Code Contribution -- Win $$$ and Karma (www.plainblack.com/wcc) ][ Plainblack Needs You! Perl dev wanted: http://xrl.us/u7c5 06:09 < streamlines> I'm off to bed too. 06:09 < streamlines> Cheers preaction. I'll be luirking tomorrow. 06:10 <@preaction> we'll be here 06:10 < streamlines> botsnack perlbot 06:10 < perlbot> I'm not your prank monkey 06:10 < streamlines> :=) 06:11 -!- streamlines [n=streamli@wsip-68-110-129-224.ga.at.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:25 -!- preaction changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.3.11 | WRE 0.7.2 ][ New Contest Open -- Acme Code Contribution -- Win $$$ and Karma (www.plainblack.com/wcc) ][ Plainblack Needs You! Perl dev wanted: http://xrl.us/u7c5 08:26 <@preaction> i so wish i could enter these contests. i think a good one would be a "fortune" asset, that you could use ^AssetProxy(); on in your style template, or whatever 08:27 <@preaction> however, make it generic enough to be "Grab output from whatever system call", fortune being the default 08:27 <@preaction> change \n to
, and you're set 08:27 < gooeybot> preaction: that doesn't look right 08:27 -!- gooeybot [n=gooeybot@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:27 <@preaction> whoa 08:27 -!- gooeybot [n=gooeybot@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 08:31 -!- Dapperedodo [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui 09:28 * Radix-wrk wonders if he could steal preaction's idea and enter it in. 10:06 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:13 -!- dodo [n=joeri@a82-93-238-59.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui 10:30 -!- Dapperedodo [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:19 -!- pjesi [n=pjesi@nix.is] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:19 -!- pjesi [n=pjesi@perl.is] has joined #webgui 14:01 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:44 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@139.sub-75-207-54.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI 15:45 < SDuensin> Good morning. 15:48 < pjesi> morning 15:51 < SDuensin> Morning it is. :-) 15:52 < pjesi> actually it is afternoon 15:53 < SDuensin> Bum. :-P 15:56 < pjesi> :) 16:07 < rjacobsen> good morning all - is there a way to export products from one webgui site and import them into another webgui site without having to enter them all in manually all over again on each site? 16:08 * SDuensin wishes he knew. 16:09 < pjesi> rjacobsen: create a package of the Asset, then send it from one server to the other and use the import package on the other server 16:10 < rjacobsen> i know how to do that - but a product is not an asset 16:10 < rjacobsen> i see no metadata tab on it - nor import option 16:10 < rjacobsen> or export 16:11 < rjacobsen> products added via the "Products" or "Add a new product" link do not seem to be true assets per say and i cannot find a metadata tab for any of them to be able to make a package 16:13 < pjesi> sorry 16:13 < rjacobsen> if you edit a product the only tabs are "properties" and "actions" and i do not see where they are being placed in the asset tree 16:13 < pjesi> have no idea 16:27 < rjacobsen> ok then maybe you can tell me how to completely duplicate a site in webgui without using the package method 16:34 < pjesi> mysqldump and tar the uploads folder 16:35 < rjacobsen> man there has GOT to be a way to export out products 16:36 <@rizen> there is...wait until we turn products into assets sometime this summer 16:36 <@rizen> =) 16:37 < rjacobsen> that doesnt fix my current problem :( 16:37 <@rizen> i didn't say it did 16:37 <@rizen> but if you do have time travel technology...then i twill 16:37 < rjacobsen> rofl 16:38 < rjacobsen> ok maybe a hack but where is the product info placed when you "add a product"? so maybe i can copy and paste somehow 16:41 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui 16:42 <@rizen> | productParameterOptions | 16:42 <@rizen> | productParameters | 16:42 <@rizen> | productVariants | 16:42 <@rizen> | products 16:45 < rjacobsen> ok here is an idea 16:45 < rjacobsen> is there a macro that could call the product price and product number from a product wobject i created? 16:46 < rjacobsen> if there is - that would fix my problem 17:01 -!- dodo [n=joeri@a82-93-238-59.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:07 -!- ckotil [n=newtrino@snare.grnoc.iu.edu] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 17:13 -!- nutrino [n=newtrino@snare.grnoc.iu.edu] has joined #webgui 17:13 -!- nutrino is now known as ckotil 17:36 < ckotil> http://i6.tinypic.com/2hpod9j.jpg 17:36 < ckotil> eclipse pic 17:58 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has left #webgui [] 18:01 -!- ScottD [i=40c6c7fb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-ec9a40ff901bf507] has joined #webgui 18:01 < ScottD> Hey all - SDuensin here. Is the webinar full? I'm not able to reconnect. 18:03 < pjesi> To join the Meeting, please use one of the following supported operating systems: 18:04 < SDuensin> Meeting is Full says my machine. 18:05 < SDuensin> (The machine with the projector can't connect at all.) 18:05 <@rizen> it's not full 18:05 <@rizen> we can have 1000 participants 18:05 < SDuensin> Look again. 18:05 < SDuensin> When I was on before, it said the max was 11. 18:05 < pjesi> why is it mac/win only? 18:07 < SDuensin> "This meeting is full. Please contact the meeting organizer." 18:07 < ckotil> is it going on now? 18:07 <@rizen> sorry dude...we were told that the meeting was supposed to allow 1000 participants 18:07 <@rizen> there's no way to fix it now 18:08 < SDuensin> Crap. I was in, too. Tried to switch to a machine with a projector on it. 18:08 * SDuensin sighs. 18:08 <@rizen> we're going to leave 18:08 <@rizen> to give room for you 18:09 < SDuensin> I'm in! 18:09 < ckotil> im in. 18:09 < ckotil> theres only 10 attendees 18:10 < ckotil> where do i get sound from? must i call in? 18:11 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 18:11 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ 18:12 <@rizen> yes 18:12 <@rizen> you must call in 18:13 < ckotil> k 18:14 < ckotil> damn, i dont have long distance axx 18:14 < ckotil> lame. 18:14 * ckotil drops off 18:15 -!- ScottD [i=40c6c7fb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-ec9a40ff901bf507] has quit ["CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)"] 18:29 * snapcount sings a jingle "meow meow meow meow meow meow" 18:30 <@rizen> snapcount...please call xtopher 18:30 <@rizen> he has a bunch of priority bug fixes for you 18:31 <@snapcount> ok 18:31 <@rizen> i'll work with you on the RTE related ones 18:39 < pjesi> any of those have to do with feeds in Calendar.pm? 18:40 -!- TheSeparator [n=none@cp43027-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has joined #webgui 18:40 < TheSeparator> How was the WebGUI live experience ? 18:49 < SDuensin> Other than I wish it had VoIP, very nice. 18:49 < ckotil> ya. 18:50 < ckotil> or voice built in 18:50 < ckotil> like i was expecting. 18:50 < ckotil> im just hatin on gotomypc 18:52 < SDuensin> Well, it hated the laptop we tried to use. 18:52 < SDuensin> Managed to make it work on my desktop machine. 18:57 < TheSeparator> Is such a Webinar recorded ? Can it be replayed for those is very different time-zones ? 18:57 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui 18:57 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ 18:58 < SDuensin> The site says they plan on selling them on DVD. 18:59 < TheSeparator> Saw that but this would be time consuming, in Oz and Japan people are asleep.... 19:00 < ckotil> it was just flash, or something similiar. should be possible to just post online. but i dunno 19:00 < ckotil> we use this adobe product here at my edu, for online classes and training sessions. so flash files get posted. they rock 19:01 < TheSeparator> did they use adobe presenter ? 19:01 < ckotil> they used gotomypc.com 19:01 < TheSeparator> understood, thanks. 19:01 < ckotil> we use adobe acrobat pro, formerly known as breeze 19:01 < ckotil> acrobrat pro connect* 19:01 < ckotil> stpuid name. 19:17 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:34 <@snapcount> mmmmm lunch 19:34 <@snapcount> anyone have any ideas yet for the acme contest? 19:34 <@snapcount> if you're just starting out with perl or developing in WebGUI it's a great way to learn 19:35 <@snapcount> I'd like to see someone write a game 19:36 < pjesi> does it have to be totally useless? 19:37 <@snapcount> no 19:37 <@snapcount> but it can be 19:38 <@snapcount> btw I have a strong interest in coding for fun so I'll help anyone out with perl and webgui questions for this 19:43 <@snapcount> actually I had an idea for a hide and seek game that could be fun to do 19:43 <@snapcount> it would have an asset component and a workflow activity component 19:44 <@snapcount> the asset would be the game interface where you start it, track scores, etc 19:44 <@snapcount> and the workflow would randomly hide a piece of content in the site somewhere 19:44 <@snapcount> the content would have a link you click when you find it to tell the asset you've won 19:44 <@snapcount> at which point it would kick off the workflow to hide it in a new spot 19:45 <@snapcount> the game its self is probably for a five year old but it would be a good programming exercise for a beginner 19:51 <@snapcount> a really simple one that would be cool would be a magic eight ball for the dashboard 19:52 < Hinrik> what could be wrong if calendar feeds aren't being updated? 19:52 <@snapcount> do you have any errors in your webgui log? 19:52 < Hinrik> hm 19:52 <@snapcount> that workflow should log errors if something goes wrong 19:52 <@snapcount> activity rather 19:54 <@snapcount> Hinrik: has it ever updated? 19:54 < Hinrik> yes, I added a few events, but only the first two are in the ical feed 19:54 <@snapcount> oh wait 19:55 <@snapcount> are you talking about feeds generated by the calendar or feeds being brought into the calendar 19:55 < Hinrik> genereated 19:55 < Hinrik> -a 19:55 <@snapcount> ahh 19:55 <@snapcount> I was talking about pulling them in 19:55 < Hinrik> Here's the calendar http://arcticportal.org/calendar/caff 19:55 < Hinrik> add ?func=ical for the feed 19:56 <@snapcount> yeah I just tried it... only got two of your events 19:57 <@snapcount> there are no errors in you webgui.log file? 19:57 < Hinrik> this is the only thing that might be relevant: 19:57 < Hinrik> Caught exception executing workflow activity pbwfactivity0000000006 for instance O0i5VA7zhzURUdeEQhNzPg which reported ModPerl::Util::exit: (120000) exit was called at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Session/ErrorHandler.pm line 229 19:58 <@snapcount> well I just spotted a different bug 19:58 < Hinrik> hm? 19:59 <@snapcount> the ical feed should be processing macros before sending the output 19:59 <@snapcount> it's not 19:59 < Hinrik> yeah 19:59 <@snapcount> that should be very easy to fix though 19:59 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui 19:59 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 19:59 < Hinrik> how so? 19:59 <@snapcount> so that error doesn't tell me much 19:59 <@snapcount> is there anything above that error? 20:00 <@snapcount> you just pass a reference of the content to the WebGUI::Macro::process I think it is 20:00 <@snapcount> or evaluate or something 20:00 <@snapcount> I'd have to look at the API 20:00 <@snapcount> perlDreamer: want to help me work on the dbslave bug 20:00 <+perlDreamer> yup, have to use a reference 20:01 <+perlDreamer> snapcount, yeah! 20:01 <@snapcount> sweet 20:01 <+perlDreamer> what can I do? 20:01 <+perlDreamer> it's his dbslave 20:01 < Hinrik> the line above that error has something to do with an asset I'm writing (unrelated to calendars) so it's not related 20:01 <@snapcount> first can you duplicate it b/c I cant 20:01 <+perlDreamer> neither can I 20:01 <+perlDreamer> I think he's got a bad slave 20:01 <+perlDreamer> that's why I wrote the script 20:01 <+perlDreamer> do you have login rights? 20:01 <@snapcount> is there an instance of that asset on the same page as your calendar? 20:01 < Hinrik> no 20:02 <@snapcount> yeah but it's a live system so I can't poke around 20:02 <@snapcount> besides I don't know much about the way they have it configured 20:02 <+perlDreamer> the script I wrote runs stand-alone. it would be safe to run on a live system 20:02 <@snapcount> ok... 20:03 <@snapcount> so we need to make it handle the problem gracefully 20:03 <@snapcount> that's our bug now 20:03 <@snapcount> but I need to recreate a failure in order to do that 20:03 <@snapcount> ideas? 20:03 <+perlDreamer> it's the same kind of bug as the SQLForm one 20:03 <+perlDreamer> we need exceptions 20:03 <@snapcount> indeed 20:03 <@snapcount> but we don't have them yet 20:04 <+perlDreamer> well, to handle it gracefully, we have to eval 20:04 <+perlDreamer> let's see if it can be duplicated, first 20:05 <@snapcount> I currently have two databases running on the same server 20:06 <+perlDreamer> hm 20:06 <@snapcount> I guess I could try deleting it or something and see what the result is 20:06 <+perlDreamer> set up a slave with a bad host dsn, that should give you a connect error 20:06 <@snapcount> but that should be the same as a bad DSN in the config 20:06 <@snapcount> yeah but that is already handled isn't it? 20:07 <+perlDreamer> no 20:07 <@snapcount> eh 20:07 <@snapcount> well that sounds like a good place to start then 20:11 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:11 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 20:11 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 20:13 <+perlDreamer> I used the Session.t test script to duplicate the error 20:13 <+perlDreamer> with this dsn: DBI:mysql:mywebgui;host=192.168.104.202 20:13 <+perlDreamer> (that IP doesn't exist on my network) 20:13 <+perlDreamer> it times out for a very, very long time 20:15 <@snapcount> so the problem comes back to the fatal we throw 20:16 <+perlDreamer> right 20:16 <@snapcount> meaning we can't trap it 20:16 <@snapcount> ok 20:16 <+perlDreamer> well, technically DBI throws the failure 20:16 <+perlDreamer> I think we have a few choices: 20:16 <+perlDreamer> 1) Tell him to fix his slaves 20:16 <+perlDreamer> 2) Trap connect inside an eval 20:17 <+perlDreamer> if the eval fails, return self->db instead 20:17 <+perlDreamer> oh, and not instantiating all 3 slaves at the same time would be good, too 20:18 <@snapcount> ok, I'm going to try and reproduce like you described and see what I can come up with 20:18 < rjacobsen> excuse me (sorry for interrupting) is there a macro in webgui that would call the price and product number from a product wobject? 20:18 -!- gooeybot [n=gooeybot@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:19 <+perlDreamer> rjacobsen: no 20:19 <+perlDreamer> it wouldn't be hard to write, though 20:19 <+perlDreamer> pass it the assetId/URL 20:19 <+perlDreamer> instance the Asset 20:19 <+perlDreamer> use ->get to grab and return the data you want 20:19 <+perlDreamer> 10-15 lines with error checking 20:20 < rjacobsen> (not to be stupid) how do i instance the asset? 20:21 <+perlDreamer> Inside Asset.pm, check out new, newByUrl and newByDynamicClass 20:21 <+perlDreamer> they are all object creators 20:21 < rjacobsen> ok 20:21 < rjacobsen> thanks 20:21 <+perlDreamer> You could use the Page macro as an example 20:21 < rjacobsen> allright thanks 20:21 <+perlDreamer> Although it only grabs stuff out of the current asset from the session var 20:43 <@snapcount> my $asset = WebGUI::Asset->newByUrl($session, "/url/to/asset"); my $value = $asset->get("propertyName"); 20:44 < ckotil> we have a workflow just waiting 20:44 < ckotil> for no reason. 20:44 < ckotil> email never got sent. 20:46 < ckotil> looks like its due to this error 20:46 < ckotil> 2007/03/06 18:38:38 - ERROR - spectre.conf - POE::Kernel::_dispatch_event[983] - CRON: Job globalnoc.webgui.conf-cbAkterTqD1vrvHHSHI5jQ is not in our queue. 20:47 <+perlDreamer> snapcount: is there anything else I can do to help with the dbSlave thing? 20:48 <@snapcount> not right at this second 20:56 <@snapcount> ok perlDreamer, I'm caught up with you now 20:56 <@snapcount> right now where this stands is that it's not a bug 20:56 <@snapcount> webgui is working exactly how it was intended too 20:57 <@snapcount> it throws a fatal if it can't connect to a database 20:57 <@snapcount> I'm sure this will change when we get exceptions (I hope) 20:57 <+perlDreamer> I concur with you 20:58 <+perlDreamer> ("yup") 20:58 <@snapcount> From what I can see the system is not very robust as you pointed out... one slave being unreachable should not cause the site to stop working 20:58 <@snapcount> but it was clearly written to work that way 20:58 <+perlDreamer> yes. dbSlaves must work, or you're hosed with the current code 20:59 <@snapcount> I'm going to re-read the original support request to see how it was decided this was a bug to make sure I'm not missing anything 20:59 <+perlDreamer> JT said to post it as a bug 21:02 <+perlDreamer> You can also see from the bug that I asked xtopher if he'd validated his slaves, and he said he had. But the connect error doesn't lie. 21:03 <@snapcount> well I just realized something else 21:03 <+perlDreamer> ? 21:03 <@snapcount> his problem is intermittent 21:03 <@snapcount> all of the slaves are connected too in the beginning 21:03 <@snapcount> so if this were a connection issue it would never work at all 21:04 <@snapcount> unless the connection is intermittent 21:04 <+perlDreamer> that's what I think 21:04 <@snapcount> but that seems unlikely 21:04 <+perlDreamer> with the dbslave code in Session, there's no chance for intermittent behavior 21:04 <+perlDreamer> it's all or none. 21:04 < ckotil> FUCK. this has to be workflow bug 21:04 < ckotil> i restarted spectre , and now i have 2 waiting workflows 21:05 <+perlDreamer> ckotil: or a POE bug (which the workflow uses) 21:05 < ckotil> trying to send this notify email 21:05 < ckotil> ive got a thread going in PB support 21:06 <+perlDreamer> The PB guys will sort it out. They're top notch. 21:06 < ckotil> yah, im just angry about it 21:06 < ckotil> always something. upgrade and something breaks 21:06 < ckotil> which is fine as long as it isnt crucial to my operation 21:07 < ckotil> ohhh, so get this. a flood of emails just went out 21:07 < ckotil> the past 3 weeks of notify emails 21:07 < ckotil> i just restarted spectre 21:07 < ckotil> seems to me that the restart spectre bug aint fixed 21:08 <+perlDreamer> that could very well be 21:08 <@snapcount> have you updated the perl modules ckotil 21:08 <@snapcount> you need to update POE, POE::Component::IKC, and HTML::Template 21:09 <@snapcount> that last one is not for spectre 21:09 < ckotil> :x 21:09 <@snapcount> but you should update it 21:09 < ckotil> i dont recall if i did. ill assume i didnt 21:09 < ckotil> thx snapcount 21:09 <@snapcount> just try to install them from cpan 21:09 <@snapcount> if there is a newer version, it will install them 21:09 * ckotil nods. 21:10 <@snapcount> don't forget to restart modperl after the update 21:10 < ckotil> ya it updated (POE) 21:10 < ckotil> i cant believe over looked this 21:10 < ckotil> should be in gotcha right? 21:10 <+perlDreamer> don't feel too bad, I did too. 21:11 <+perlDreamer> there's nothing in the gotchas about this 21:12 <+perlDreamer> I think preaction's idea about testEnvironment being a part of a WebGUI/WRE upgrade is a good one. 21:14 -!- snapcount_ [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 21:14 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:15 < snapcount_> am I back? 21:15 < snapcount_> wth 21:15 <+perlDreamer> you're back 21:16 -!- snapcount_ is now known as snapcount 21:16 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ 21:16 <@snapcount> stupid interwebs 21:16 <+perlDreamer> there's gunk in the tubes 21:16 <@snapcount> did that resolve your problems ckotil? 21:16 < SDuensin> "It's a series of tubes! It's... It's not a truck you can just dump stuff on!" 21:17 <@snapcount> hehe 21:18 < ckotil> yeah, we're good. thanks snapcount 21:18 <+perlDreamer> snapcount: are the new module versions in testEnvironment.pl? 21:18 <@snapcount> I don't know 21:18 <@snapcount> this should be in gotchas though 21:19 <@snapcount> I'm pretty sure that updating those poe modules was essentially the "fix" for the spectre bugs 21:19 <@snapcount> all of the code changes on our end were improvements JT made 21:19 <@snapcount> afaik 21:21 <+perlDreamer> ckotil: which versions of POE, POE::Component::IKC got installed? 21:22 < ckotil> .1904 21:22 < ckotil> Running make for G/GW/GWYN/POE-Component-IKC-0.1904.tar.gz 21:23 < ckotil> hrm..wierd. 21:23 < ckotil> then i read this. 21:23 < ckotil> CPAN.pm: Going to build G/GW/GWYN/POE-Component-IKC-0.1904.tar.gz 21:23 < ckotil> --------------------------------------------------------------- 21:23 < ckotil> You currently have POE 0.3601 installed. 21:23 < ckotil> It appears IKC causes POE version 0.29 - 0.36 to exercise a bug in some 21:23 < ckotil> versions of Perl that prevents wheel's DESTROY from being called. This 21:23 < ckotil> issue has been resolved in 0.37. If you can not upgrade your version of 21:23 < ckotil> POE, IKC must work around that calls the wheel's DESTROY explicitly. You 21:23 -!- perlbot [n=perlbot@lv.pm.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:23 < ckotil> may find and reactivate this by uncommenting lines after WORK AROUND in 21:23 < ckotil> IKC/Server.pm, IKC/Channel.pm and IKC/Client.pm 21:23 < ckotil> doesnt make much sense 21:23 -!- perlbot [n=perlbot@lv.pm.org] has joined #webgui 21:23 <+perlDreamer> there's too much guesswork in this 21:24 <+perlDreamer> rizen: what are the canonical versions of modules required for Spectre? POE and POE::Component::IKC? 21:25 < ckotil> ok POE::Component::IKC is up to date (0.1904). 21:25 < ckotil> is what i have now. 21:27 <@snapcount> You need to update POE first, then IKC 21:27 <@snapcount> that should get rid of that warning 21:28 < ckotil> o, i just did IKC 21:28 < ckotil> thx 21:28 <@snapcount> yep 21:36 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit [""""] 21:59 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 22:11 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 22:11 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ 22:25 -!- TheSeparator [n=none@cp43027-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:42 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has joined #webgui 22:43 < cap10morgan> if you were going to move a bunch of collaboration systems (and their contents) from one 7.3.10 site to another, what would be the best way to do that? 22:46 -!- TheSeparator [n=none@cp43027-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has joined #webgui 22:51 <@preaction> did you try making a package 22:54 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui 22:54 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 23:01 < rjacobsen> anyone here please help us - the sql form on our site is not working - here is the errors in the log file http://paste.biz/paste-855.html - it keeps saying when we save the sql form (Some error(s) occurred: 23:01 < rjacobsen> Databaselink does not have enough privileges (Needs ALTER, CREATE, DELETE, INDEX, INSERT, SELECT, UPDATE)) 23:02 < rjacobsen> but we have all those priviledges set 23:03 <+perlDreamer> that's also the bug for a bad DSN. 23:03 <+perlDreamer> uh, not bug, but error message 23:04 < rjacobsen> we used the example directly from your help page 23:06 < cap10morgan> preaction: i was thinking about doing that, but how does that work from one site to another? 23:06 <@preaction> cap10morgan: works fine from what I hear 23:06 <@preaction> except your subscriptions wont get migrated, but i assume you don't want that (and that would require some raw database fun time) 23:07 -!- TheSeparator [n=none@cp43027-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:08 < pjesi> snapcount: do you know what might be causing the ical to be sent without the macro processing? 23:08 <+perlDreamer> rjacobsen: I think the root problem is this: 23:08 <+perlDreamer> 2007/03/06 15:04:56 - WARN - kidscorner.us.com.conf - main::[[undef]] - DatabaseLink [Km4hmZZDkxFwrR4aKJzlWQ] The DSN specified is of an improper format. 23:08 <+perlDreamer> You have a bad DSN. 23:08 <+perlDreamer> no DSN, no database 23:08 <+perlDreamer> no database, no SQL Form 23:08 < cap10morgan> preaction: yeah, that's fine. so the packages menu has the same content regardless of what site you're logged into? (as long as it's the same server) 23:08 < rjacobsen> ok so how do we find out our DSN? what do we put in the DSN? 23:09 <+perlDreamer> well... 23:09 <@preaction> cap10morgan: no, the package has the same content as the asset (at least, at the time of export). they aren't updated cross-site 23:09 <+perlDreamer> You have to have a separate database from the main WebGUI one. 23:10 <+perlDreamer> Do you have such a database setup on your site? 23:11 < cap10morgan> preaction: right, i just mean, the package will be available to deploy on a different site after i've created it on the original? 23:12 <@preaction> no, you have to go to the asset manager, click "export", you'll be given a file to download. then you can go to the asset manager on the other site, and you'll see a spot to import an exported package 23:12 -!- pjesi [n=pjesi@perl.is] has quit ["Changing server"] 23:12 -!- pjesi [i=pjesi@perl.is] has joined #webgui 23:13 < cap10morgan> ah, gotcha 23:13 < cap10morgan> thanks preaction 23:15 < rjacobsen> we do not have a seperate database setup no 23:15 < rjacobsen> so we cant use the existing database? 23:15 <+perlDreamer> no 23:15 < rjacobsen> ahh 23:15 < rjacobsen> ok 23:15 < rjacobsen> brb 23:15 <+perlDreamer> It's a safety feature to protect the main WebGUI db. 23:15 < cap10morgan> can you create packages, export them, and import them using the API? 23:16 <+perlDreamer> yes 23:17 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit [""Be back in 30""] 23:37 < cap10morgan> hmm, the import is doing nothing. i click import after selecting the wgpkg file and the browser spins for a minute, then nothing shows up. ?? 23:37 < cap10morgan> nothing in webgui.log 23:48 <@snapcount> pjesi: yes 23:48 <@snapcount> I told you earlier 23:48 <@snapcount> =) 23:49 < pjesi> really? must have missed that sorry 23:50 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has joined #webgui 23:51 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 23:51 < pjesi> <@snapcount> you just pass a reference of the content to the WebGUI::Macro::process I think it is 23:51 < pjesi> you mean this? 23:51 <@snapcount> yeah 23:51 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@139.sub-75-207-54.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:51 <@snapcount> it's vague I know 23:51 <@snapcount> but that's really the answer 23:52 < ckotil> who worked on the new calendar asset? 23:52 <@snapcount> somewhere there is a variable that contains all of the event details 23:52 <@snapcount> you need to pass a reference of that variable to WebGUI::Macro::process 23:52 < pjesi> snapcount: I see, I just thought the fix was not in the code 23:53 <@snapcount> oh no 23:53 <@snapcount> to fix the macros not processing requires code for sure 23:56 < cap10morgan> anyone know what to check for when packages won't import? 23:57 <+perlDreamer> cap10morgan: what version are you using? 23:58 < cap10morgan> 7.3.10 23:58 < cap10morgan> on both the exporting and the importing side 23:58 <+perlDreamer> You should check the change log. I'm pretty sure there were bugs fixed around 7.3.10. 23:59 <+perlDreamer> yuup 23:59 <+perlDreamer> there was an import package fixed in 7.3.11 23:59 <@preaction> ckotil: just ask the question 23:59 <+perlDreamer> what kind of package are you trying to export and why do you say there's a bug for that? --- Day changed Wed Mar 07 2007 00:01 < ckotil> nah, you wont like it 00:01 < cap10morgan> perlDreamer: correct you are :) upgrading now. 00:01 < ckotil> i created an example of the calendar asset today for my group to check out. and they want it ajaxified 00:01 < ckotil> google calendar spoiled them. 00:02 < ckotil> they like the ical support. 00:02 <@preaction> what do you mean by "ajaxified"? 00:02 < ckotil> able to drag and drop events and info , mostly 00:02 <@preaction> you mean an overabundance of pointless asynchronous requests? 00:03 <@preaction> drag.. and ... drop... from what? 00:03 < ckotil> events to duplicate them for example 00:03 < ckotil> or move an event 00:04 < ckotil> and abiltilty to overlay multiple calendars onto a single view. 00:04 < ckotil> http://globalnoc.iu.edu/i2network/support/maintenance-calendar.html 00:04 -!- Seppie [i=Seppie@cp43027-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has joined #webgui 00:04 <@preaction> your overlay can be done with ^AssetProxy, no? 00:04 < ckotil> hrm... 00:04 < ckotil> no i dont think so. 00:05 < ckotil> the proxied asset would just get appended to the page, rather than actually overlay'd 00:05 <@preaction> you mean you want multiple calendar's Events to be shown on a single calendar 00:05 <@preaction> that's easy, use the iCal feeds 00:05 < ckotil> interesting. 00:05 < ckotil> we already have ical feeds. 00:05 * ckotil tries. 00:07 < ckotil> well i added the feeds. 00:07 < ckotil> now i wait till the workflow is executed. 00:07 <@preaction> or force it to run now 00:07 < ckotil> tru 00:08 < ckotil> hrm i dont see a running workflow. 00:08 < ckotil> for it. or how to update the feeds 00:09 <@preaction> go to Admin Console > Scheduler. look for Hourly Maintenance Tasks and click Run 00:09 <+perlDreamer> hey, where did gooeybot go? 00:09 < ckotil> ah 00:09 < ckotil> he dropped a half hour ago 00:09 <+perlDreamer> he needs to learn runHourly 00:09 <@preaction> weird, let me find him 00:09 <+perlDreamer> gooeybot, runHourly is go to Admin Console > Scheduler. look for Hourly Maintenance Tasks and click Run 00:10 < cap10morgan> does the 7.3.10 package import bug affect the exported packages? i.e. should i re-export under 7.3.11? 00:11 -!- gooeybot [n=gooeybot@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 00:12 <+perlDreamer> gooeybot, runHourly is go to Admin Console > Scheduler. look for Hourly Maintenance Tasks and click Run 00:12 < gooeybot> OK, perlDreamer. 00:13 <+perlDreamer> cap' you shouldn't need to 00:14 < ckotil> werd. 00:14 < ckotil> seems our ical format isnt up to spec. 00:15 < ckotil> or the calendar just barfs after a multi day event. 00:15 < ckotil> not sure which. pry the earlier. 00:15 < ckotil> on that note. im heading home. 00:15 < ckotil> see ya on the flipside 00:15 -!- Seppie [i=Seppie@cp43027-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:16 <@preaction> ckotil: more probably the latter 00:16 <@preaction> ckotil: post a bug and attach the ICS file 00:21 <+perlDreamer> no good iCal parsers on CPAN? 00:21 <@preaction> there are 6 available, Text::vCard being the best interface I saw 00:22 <@preaction> in the WebGUI::Workflow::Activity::CalendarUpdateFeeds I do a rundown of them 00:22 <@preaction> and then roll my own. that activity was written at about 5:00am, 4 hours before deadline 00:22 <+perlDreamer> I'll read your notes 00:22 <+perlDreamer> maybe we could borrow their test suite to validate your parser? 00:22 <@preaction> the format isn't hard actually 00:23 <@preaction> it's not the parser itself, it's more likely there's a way to specify start and end dates that i didn't take into account 00:23 <+perlDreamer> okay 00:24 <@preaction> which is why we'll need ckotil's ICS file 00:24 <+perlDreamer> would the iCal spec help (if there is one)? 00:24 <@preaction> i'd also like, eventually, to get rid of most of the main code in that workflow activity and put it in the calendar for easier maintenance 00:25 <@preaction> there is one, and it Might help, but it'd be easier to know what way they're being specified, or what the parser's choking on 00:25 <@preaction> admittedly, i implemented a bare minimum of the spec, enough to get by 00:26 <@preaction> something like Calendar->addFromFeed(url) 00:26 <@preaction> and why the hell is it snowing again? 00:26 <@preaction> it's like we get 6 weeks of winter, starting February 00:27 <@preaction> what's the name of the workflow activity that's used to notify admins when a version tag needs approval? is there one in the default WebGUI or will I have to make one? 00:29 <+perlDreamer> NotifyAboutVersionTag 00:29 <+perlDreamer> :) 00:33 -!- Seppie [i=Seppie@cp43027-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has joined #webgui 00:33 < cap10morgan> whoah! importing packages works in 7.3.11 but it generates a metric buttload of version tags! 00:33 <@preaction> look at the revisions in the tags, are they empty? 00:35 < cap10morgan> i think so 00:36 < cap10morgan> they would show up on the right if they weren't, right? 00:36 < cap10morgan> oh wait, no they're not 00:36 <@preaction> so the version tags are comitted? 00:36 < cap10morgan> no, they're not 00:36 < cap10morgan> they have revisions in them 00:36 <@preaction> and they're showing up on the right, and they have revisions in them 00:36 < cap10morgan> looks like one for each thread of the collab system that was in this package i just imported 00:36 < cap10morgan> correct 00:37 <@preaction> that is probably a bug, but i'll be durned if i know where 00:39 < cap10morgan> i committed them all and now the package is gone again 00:40 < cap10morgan> and the collab system / threads didn't show up anywhere 00:40 < cap10morgan> oh, i just tried it again and this time it only created one version tag 00:41 < cap10morgan> and it worked! 00:41 < cap10morgan> the content is there! 00:41 < cap10morgan> haha, weird. 00:42 <@preaction> weird enough you might want to report it. whatever happened that first time should not have happened 01:14 <+perlDreamer> rizen, should we change the name space of the help template? 01:21 <+perlDreamer> cap10morgan, if you file it as a bug, you might want to save that package in the bug report as well. Then we can do an apples to apples check instead of trying to hack up some kind of package that may not trigger the bug. 01:22 < cap10morgan> yeah, i'll be doing a lot more testing of this 01:22 < cap10morgan> so if i see it again, i'll definitely report it 01:23 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui 01:23 -!- Seppie [i=Seppie@cp43027-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:24 <+perlDreamer> thanks, man 01:25 <+perlDreamer> it will delay 7.4, but result in a better overall WebGUI 01:25 <@rizen> i don't think so 01:25 <+perlDreamer> no name space change? 01:25 <@rizen> no 01:25 <+perlDreamer> okay 01:26 <@rizen> if it happens again, maybe...but for now let's worry about real bugs 01:26 <@rizen> god i hate accounting 01:26 <@rizen> spent the whole day on it today 01:26 <@rizen> feel like i got nothing done 01:26 <+perlDreamer> I hate that 01:26 <@rizen> time to take a break before a big upgrade this eve 01:26 <@rizen> later 01:26 <+perlDreamer> cya 02:03 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI 02:43 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has quit [""""] 02:58 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [] 04:36 <@rizen> cap10morgan, did you make it into the talk today? 04:37 < cap10morgan> i was on the call and followed along on the demo site 04:37 < cap10morgan> but couldn't get into the gotomeeting 04:37 <@rizen> ok. 04:38 <@rizen> we're planning on doing it again in a week or so due to our flub 04:38 < cap10morgan> i was mainly evaluating it for the organization i work for to see if we'd be interested in purchasing more sessions 04:38 < cap10morgan> oh, ok 04:38 < cap10morgan> great 04:39 <@rizen> i'm really sorry that we inconvenienced you 04:39 < cap10morgan> it's ok; these things happen 04:40 <@rizen> we thought it was supposed to support 1000 participants by default..but we set it up wrong 04:40 <@rizen> we were also really suprised by the turnout 04:40 <@rizen> we expected maybe 5 peeps 04:40 <@rizen> but it was full almost instantly 04:40 <@rizen> so who knows how many peeps will actually be there 05:06 -!- nuba [n=nuba@hq.imaterial.org] has joined #webgui 05:06 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui 05:07 < PedersenMJ> h'lo all. 05:07 < nuba> h'l' 05:08 < PedersenMJ> How's it going? 05:08 < Radix-wrk> hi ped 05:08 < nuba> dunno, just joined the chan :) 05:09 < Radix-wrk> Welcome nuba :) 05:09 < PedersenMJ> Wow. Someone went crazy creating wiki articles recently. 05:09 < PedersenMJ> That's cool :) 05:10 <@rizen> that's tera 05:10 <@rizen> she's on our staff 05:10 < PedersenMJ> Hey, Radix, something for you to ponder, when next you think your contributions were unpopular: That sundark theme I posted is now at -2. 05:11 <@rizen> if i had anything to say about it, i'd give it a -50 05:11 < Radix-wrk> I know why too 05:11 < Radix-wrk> it's a bug in Webgui - visitor has rate privileges 05:11 < PedersenMJ> So would I, probably. But, it wasn't made to be popular. It was made to show a conversion process. 05:11 < Radix-wrk> thought it'd been fixed.. but not for contributions 05:12 < Radix-wrk> it means webbots are probably navigating those pages and hitting rate down/rate up randomly 05:13 < PedersenMJ> As for Tera: She a documenter then? Or is she just getting into the system by documenting some pieces first? 05:13 <@rizen> i was just kidding 05:13 <@rizen> tera is a jack of all trades person for us 05:13 <@rizen> she's currently copyiing portions of the help 05:14 <@rizen> cuz it will be removed from the actual help system to lower the memory usage in webgu 05:14 < PedersenMJ> It's funny: Burned is up at 12. Andreas02 is at 0. And Sundark is at -2. I'm surprised by the fact that Burned is higher ranked, as I thought Andreas02 would be more so. 05:14 < PedersenMJ> JT: I wasn't. Personally, I think Sundark is hideous. However, it was also perfectly simple. So, it got chosen to showcase the process. 05:15 < Radix-wrk> have a look at the forums, and sort by rating - you'll see HEAPS of random values for posts 05:15 < PedersenMJ> Hmmm.... JT, would it be worth it to do some sort of utility script that can post the help files directly, or is that just a very bad idea? 05:17 <@rizen> i'm not sure what you're asking 05:18 < PedersenMJ> Well, here's my thought: The help files are in the code, as HTML. It should be possible to write a script/object which reads them, and posts the html directly, using the webgui api. However, possible doesn't mean it's a good idea. 05:19 <@rizen> first of all she's not copying all the files 05:20 <@rizen> only select ones 05:20 <@rizen> and secondly, we have no devs available currently 05:20 <@rizen> and thirdly...tera costs less than a dev 05:21 < PedersenMJ> So, bad idea. Like I said, possible doesn't mean good. I'd consider trying it, but it sounds like it wouldn't be the right thing to do. 06:51 -!- wgGuest24 [n=wgGuest2@c-67-169-8-99.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #webgui 06:52 -!- wgGuest24 [n=wgGuest2@c-67-169-8-99.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:08 < PedersenMJ> g'night all! hasta la manana! 07:08 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has quit [] 09:31 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:01 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui 10:11 -!- nuba [n=nuba@hq.imaterial.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:12 -!- nuba [n=nuba@hq.imaterial.org] has joined #webgui 14:13 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:02 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@130.sub-75-207-202.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI 17:10 -!- snapcount_ [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 17:12 < ckotil> db up to 36.5 MB 17:27 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:10 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@194.171.50.114] has quit ["Xirc - MacOSX"] 18:11 < rjacobsen> do you have a *current* sql query macro that will access a database outside of webgui? 18:11 < rjacobsen> or a new database inside webgui? 18:12 < rjacobsen> we found the ^SQLExt(); and it doesnt seem to work anymore 18:20 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui 18:20 -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ 18:46 < rjacobsen> hello? 18:46 < gooeybot> Hi, rjacobsen 18:46 < rjacobsen> do you have a *current* sql query macro that will access a database outside of webgui? 18:46 < rjacobsen> or a new database inside webgui? 18:46 < rjacobsen> we found the ^SQLExt(); and it doesnt seem to work anymore 18:54 < ckotil> sqlreport asset lets you query external db's 18:54 < ckotil> it requires you to setup a db link first. 19:32 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has joined #webgui 19:32 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 19:33 <+perlDreamer> rizen: thanks for watching my back, dude 20:40 <@rizen> in what way did i watch your back? 20:40 <@rizen> are you talking about Graphics.pm? 20:41 <+perlDreamer> yeah 20:42 <@rizen> oh...not like you haven't done it 1000 times for me 20:42 <@rizen> =) 20:42 <+perlDreamer> it's good not to work alone 20:42 <+perlDreamer> speaking of which, I have fixes for two calendar bugs 20:42 <@rizen> indeed 20:43 <+perlDreamer> is it safe to commit? 20:43 <@rizen> feel free, no release today 20:43 <@rizen> i have 7 priority bug fixes from rockstar clients to do today 20:43 <@rizen> so i have to drop everythng to do that 20:43 <+perlDreamer> oh, am I duplicating work on the calendar stuff? 20:43 <@rizen> nope 20:43 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui 20:43 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ 20:43 <@rizen> nothing related 20:44 <@rizen> the ones i'm working on are rich edit, cache, and db slaves 20:44 <+perlDreamer> the rich edit one is nasty, very similar to this calendar one 20:44 <+perlDreamer> the js thinks we're sending it relative URLs, so it's appending the parent URL to "help out" 20:45 <+perlDreamer> it doesn't grok the gateway macro 20:45 <+perlDreamer> well, that's one of the RTE bugs. there are probably others 20:46 <+perlDreamer> I'll need you to weigh in on this other calender bug, but I'll post it to the dev list after I get this one cleaned up. 20:58 -!- TheSeparator [i=Seppie@cp43027-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has joined #webgui 21:01 < rjacobsen> have a new problem with trying to delete items from the clipboard >> http://paste.biz/paste-867.html 21:02 <@rizen> this is not the place to report bug 21:02 <@rizen> s 21:02 < rjacobsen> i was just wondering if u knew how i could fix it 21:03 <@rizen> even if we diid, we won't consider looking at iit until you report the bug 21:06 < rjacobsen> just when i thought i was gettin somewhere with this irc channel...... 21:09 <@rizen> you're upset because i'm asking you to follow proper procedure? 21:09 <@rizen> if it's a problem, and we're going to spend our time fixing it...don't you think it's important we fix it for everyone...not just for you? 21:10 <@rizen> or are you that selfish that you think you are more important than the entire community? 21:14 < rjacobsen> i was simply asking if it was a bug and /or was there a way to fix it temporarily 21:14 * SDuensin sets mode +rude #WebGUI 21:14 < rjacobsen> but i found a way around it anyhow 21:18 < rjacobsen> and if anyone else has this problem - simply commit any changes made and then you can delete the item in the clipboard 21:37 < ckotil> ive had probs with the clipboard like that in th epast. you just have to finess it, until the bug can be fixed. 21:45 <+perlDreamer> rjacobsen, another good idea is to search the bugs page. 21:45 <+perlDreamer> that bug has been found, reported and fixed 21:51 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@ip56503e61.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #webgui 22:00 < cap10morgan> is plain black / webgui participating in google's summer of code? 22:03 <@rizen> as of now no 22:03 <@rizen> like i said on the forum, in the past we've always been rejected 22:04 <@rizen> so unless you have a good idea you think will get approved..we're not applying 22:12 -!- Netsplit leguin.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: Radix_ 22:17 < cap10morgan> oh, ok 22:17 < cap10morgan> we're applying, and i was going to put some webgui-based projects on our idea list, but didn't want to duplicate any efforts 22:22 <@rizen> that would be great. let me know how it goes. 22:23 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Radix_ 22:23 < cap10morgan> will do 22:24 < cap10morgan> if you don't mind my asking (and if you know), on what grounds did they reject you? 22:25 <@rizen> i don't have the emails anymore..but i believe it was just a bland rejection letter stating that our ideas didn't match the goals of summer of code 22:25 <@rizen> one of the ideas we had was to develop a javascript based CSS editor 22:26 <@rizen> so you could visually edit CSS right from your web browser 22:26 <@rizen> similar to how you use a rich editor to edit html 22:26 <@rizen> another idea was to ajaxify webgui's admin console 22:27 <@rizen> another idea was to create a google maps asset for webgui 22:27 <@rizen> i can't remember them all 22:27 <@rizen> but we put in 6 ideas total over 2 years 22:27 <@rizen> all 6 were rejected 22:31 < cap10morgan> huh, ok 22:31 < cap10morgan> interesting 22:31 < cap10morgan> i need to beef our ideas page, then :) 22:31 < cap10morgan> thanks jt 22:31 <@rizen> np 23:26 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@ip56503e61.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:47 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@130.sub-75-207-202.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"] --- Day changed Thu Mar 08 2007 00:31 <+perlDreamer> rizen: sometime I'd like you to tell me about what was happening with the CS upgrades and threads with non-existant parents. 00:32 <@rizen> on some sites, there are some corrupt threadds 00:32 <@rizen> and the upgrade failed without the check i added 00:32 <@rizen> i need to write a utility to find/fix/delete corrupt threads 00:33 <@rizen> but for the time being, i just didn't want people's upgrades to fail 00:33 <+perlDreamer> ah, okay 00:42 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has left #webgui [] 00:56 <+perlDreamer> rizen: is this a bug or an RFE: http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/calender#TKMNSvU-0qlmsv3aNk5W7g 00:57 <@rizen> bug for the week view 00:57 <+perlDreamer> I'll fix it 00:57 <@rizen> i don't know how he expects a multi-day event to show up on a day view 00:57 <@rizen> you're only looking at one day 00:58 <+perlDreamer> I don't know. If it's also easy to fix do you want it as well? 00:58 <+perlDreamer> The code that I need to fix the week view is in the month 00:58 <+perlDreamer> I'm guessing it could work for the day as well 00:58 <@rizen> listen to what you are saying 00:58 <@rizen> it is a 1 day view, but a 3 day event 00:59 <@rizen> you can't display it 00:59 <@rizen> wiithout displaying 3 days of data 00:59 <@rizen> on a day view, it should only display for that day 00:59 <@rizen> or any day that it's part of 00:59 <@rizen> you can't display all 3 days though 00:59 <@rizen> that's just rediculous 01:11 <+perlDreamer> now you're going all Billy Crystal, dahling 01:11 <@rizen> i am? 01:12 <+perlDreamer> You said I was rediculous, which I thought was just mahvelous 01:14 <+perlDreamer> btw, they gave me a chip to work on, so my WebGUI bandwidth will be decreasing 01:14 <@rizen> yay you 01:15 <@rizen> boo to them 01:15 <+perlDreamer> I need a patron 01:15 <+perlDreamer> Forget all this working crap. 01:15 <@rizen> patron? 01:16 <@rizen> like a benefactor? 01:16 <+perlDreamer> Yes 01:16 <+perlDreamer> like old-time scientists and artists 01:16 <+perlDreamer> you get a patron 01:16 <+perlDreamer> they tell you what to do 01:16 <+perlDreamer> you do it 01:16 <@rizen> if i were rich, i'd be your patron 01:17 <+perlDreamer> I'd answer support postings, fix bugs, write features, build tests and docs 01:17 <+perlDreamer> kind of like now 01:17 <+perlDreamer> only monetized 01:17 <+MrHairgrease> what's wrong with chips 01:17 <+perlDreamer> chips are great when you get to design them 01:18 <+MrHairgrease> but 01:18 <+perlDreamer> I've spent the last seven weeks being paid to sit on my butt in a cube 01:18 <+MrHairgrease> you don't on this project? 01:18 <+MrHairgrease> i know 01:18 <+MrHairgrease> i do the same 01:18 <+MrHairgrease> but don't get paid 01:18 <+MrHairgrease> =) 01:18 <+perlDreamer> no, even worse, don't you have to pay to get to design chips? 01:18 <+MrHairgrease> at least I have science as an excuse 01:19 <+MrHairgrease> i don't 01:19 <+MrHairgrease> the whole year 01:19 <+MrHairgrease> i will be busy 01:19 <+perlDreamer> school is free in The Netherlands? 01:19 <+MrHairgrease> laying reaaly tiny wires on glass 01:19 <+MrHairgrease> no! 01:19 <+MrHairgrease> but not overly expensive too 01:20 <+MrHairgrease> it's about 1500 euro's each year\] 01:20 <+MrHairgrease> except when you are old 01:20 <@rizen> holy crap 01:20 <+MrHairgrease> and it's not school 01:20 <+MrHairgrease> it's university 01:20 <@rizen> when i went to college (and i went to a cheap state school) it was $16k per year 01:20 <@rizen> and that was over 10 years ago 01:21 <+MrHairgrease> that's just fucked up 01:21 <+perlDreamer> when I went to school, it was $1k/year when I started 01:21 <+perlDreamer> and $10k when I finished (grad school) 01:21 <+MrHairgrease> mind you 01:21 <+MrHairgrease> if you're not a ducth resident 01:21 <+MrHairgrease> it's much more expensive 01:21 <+MrHairgrease> in the 10k$ range 01:22 <@rizen> our government subsidizes also 01:22 <@rizen> both at the state and federal level 01:23 <+perlDreamer> but not as much as the european schools do 01:23 <+MrHairgrease> in NL you also get subsidies 01:23 <+perlDreamer> for beer and pomade? 01:23 <+MrHairgrease> depending on what your parents earn 01:23 <+MrHairgrease> i got about 230 euro's per month 01:23 <+MrHairgrease> but that just covers your rent 01:23 <+MrHairgrease> not anything else 01:24 <+MrHairgrease> beer and pomade is what i work for 01:24 <+MrHairgrease> at oqapi 01:24 <+MrHairgrease> =) 01:24 <+perlDreamer> dude, you're worth far more than beer and pomade 01:24 <+perlDreamer> better add in some liqour 01:24 <+MrHairgrease> i use a LOT 01:24 <+MrHairgrease> both of em 01:25 <+MrHairgrease> =) 01:25 <+MrHairgrease> i like whikey too 01:25 <+MrHairgrease> but i consume that in much smaller quantities 01:25 <+perlDreamer> ratiometric consumption 01:25 <+perlDreamer> very wise of you 01:26 <+perlDreamer> rizen: is preaction slammed? 01:26 <+MrHairgrease> he must earn the same as i do =) 01:26 <@rizen> yes 01:27 <+MrHairgrease> see? 01:27 <@rizen> he's slammed...he's paid more than you though 01:27 <+perlDreamer> okay, the day view of the calendar is part of a much larger bug having to do with windowing times in the calendar 01:27 <+perlDreamer> I'll commit this fix, and then start on that one 01:27 <@rizen> preaction likely won't be available until after march 19 01:28 <+perlDreamer> then it will take me a bit longer, but I'll get it 01:28 * perlDreamer heads to the showers to think about windows 01:30 <+MrHairgrease> I'm getting paid in beercases and cans of pomade 01:30 <+MrHairgrease> isn't preaction? 01:33 <@rizen> he gets paid in bottles of Courvoisier and Caviar 01:33 <+MrHairgrease> yuck 01:33 <+MrHairgrease> caviar 01:33 <@rizen> you don't like cognac? 01:33 <+MrHairgrease> the booze is ok though 01:33 <@rizen> or is it the fish eggs you don't like? 01:33 <+MrHairgrease> ofcourse 01:34 <+MrHairgrease> i don't like fish in general 01:34 <@rizen> me either 01:34 <+MrHairgrease> you know what 01:34 <+MrHairgrease> we'll have a cognac at the wuc then 01:34 <+MrHairgrease> no fishy eggs 01:36 <@rizen> how do you feel about second breakfast? 01:36 <@rizen> and twosies 01:36 <+MrHairgrease> do i wanna know what you're talking about? 01:36 <+MrHairgrease> in delft 01:37 <@rizen> i was referring to lord of the rings 01:37 <@rizen> the hobbits have those 01:37 <+MrHairgrease> 2nd breakfast means something i don't particularly like 01:37 <@rizen> extra meals 01:37 <+MrHairgrease> hey man 01:37 <+MrHairgrease> i'm no friggen hobbit 01:38 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui 01:38 <+MrHairgrease> my feet are only moderately hairy 01:39 <@rizen> wow. you're very sensitive to the hobbitises 01:39 <+MrHairgrease> if you say so... 01:39 <@rizen> i love the word "hobbitses" 01:39 <+MrHairgrease> well 01:39 <+MrHairgrease> i'm glad it cranks you up 01:39 <+MrHairgrease> for me 01:39 <+MrHairgrease> it's time to go to bed 01:40 <@rizen> come on...are you telling me that you don't like golem? 01:40 <+MrHairgrease> no 01:40 <+MrHairgrease> he always remionds me of you 01:40 <+MrHairgrease> =) 01:40 <@rizen> hehe 01:40 <+MrHairgrease> anyway 01:40 <@rizen> ok...well sleep well my friend 01:40 <+MrHairgrease> thanks for the mental pictures 01:41 <+MrHairgrease> i'm sure it'll keep me awake for hours 01:41 <+MrHairgrease> =_ 01:41 <+MrHairgrease> =)* 01:41 <+MrHairgrease> marijn sys hi too btw 01:42 <@rizen> hi back 01:51 <+MrHairgrease> later guys 01:51 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] 02:00 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 02:00 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 03:00 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"] 04:00 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] 04:14 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 04:14 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ 05:24 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has left #webgui [] 05:30 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui 05:30 < PedersenMJ> heya 05:59 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has quit [] 08:23 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:23 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui 10:11 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:19 -!- ahm_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui 12:19 -!- ahm_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:21 -!- amh_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui 12:22 -!- amh_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:23 -!- amh_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui 12:25 -!- amh_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 12:26 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui 12:57 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui [] 12:58 -!- amh_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui 13:01 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui 13:33 -!- amh_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 14:19 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:56 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui 16:00 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@163.sub-75-206-252.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI 16:08 -!- amh_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui 16:08 -!- rjacobsen [n=rjacobse@74-129-192-43.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit ["User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby"] 16:30 -!- amh_bob [n=bob@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 16:43 < ckotil> how's this for an rfe... It kinda goes against the way the nav asset is supposed to work, but check it... Allow assets that exist beneath an asset that is hidden from navigation to be to be allowed to show up in navigation. 16:43 -!- amh_bob [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui 16:44 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:44 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui 16:47 -!- amh_bob [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui ["User is away."] 16:49 -!- AMH_bob [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui 17:00 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"] 17:12 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui 17:49 < ckotil> pb.com's workflow must be really backed up 17:49 -!- wgGuest85 [i=WebGUIUs@c-71-193-121-123.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #webgui 17:49 < wgGuest85> hi all 17:49 < ckotil> hi 17:50 < wgGuest85> can u dl extensions for this cms? 17:50 < ckotil> extensions meaning? 17:50 < wgGuest85> like modules 17:50 < wgGuest85> or feature 17:50 < ckotil> webgui calls them assets. 17:50 < ckotil> and it comes with about everyone that exists. 17:50 < wgGuest85> k 17:50 < ckotil> the community has created some too. 17:51 < ckotil> and you're free to create your own. 17:51 < ckotil> though the process is pretty involved. 17:51 < ckotil> you need to have a real intimate knowldge of webgui 17:51 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has quit [] 17:51 < ckotil> im 8 months into it, and Im just now starting to get a feel for it 17:52 < wgGuest85> k 17:52 < ckotil> if you're a perl guru, you would be able to pick it tright up tho 18:01 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"] 18:03 -!- greghacke [n=greghack@66-162-187-24.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #webgui 18:04 < greghacke> odd question if anyone knows... 18:04 < greghacke> Where is the template for this tmpl_var pulled? 18:06 -!- AMH_bob [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:06 < greghacke> NM 18:19 -!- wgGuest85 [i=WebGUIUs@c-71-193-121-123.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:41 < ckotil> yikes, just got an email about a post i made 2 days ago 18:42 <@rizen> yup..we're having mail queue problems 18:42 < ckotil> ya i think i experienced it too on my site. 18:42 < ckotil> restarting spectre seemed to fix it 18:43 < ckotil> i might turn on the cronjob that restarts spectre every tnight. you think thats worthwhile? 18:43 < ckotil> im gonna be gone all next week. skiing in utah 18:43 < ckotil> gonna hit up vail, CO on teh way. ;) 18:43 < ckotil> leaving tomorrow afternoon 18:43 < ckotil> driving :/ 18:43 < ckotil> Indiana to Utah is 1550 miles 18:43 < greghacke> rizen :: you get in a game of settlers? 18:44 < greghacke> will wanted to know how it went. 18:44 < SDuensin> ckotil - stop in St. Louis and fix my server. :-) 18:44 < ckotil> hehe. cant be fixed remotely? 18:44 <@rizen> if you're on webgui 7.3.10 or above, then you don't need to restart spectre everyday 18:44 <@rizen> otherwise you should 18:44 < ckotil> im on 7.3.10 18:45 <@rizen> greg: yes, 2 in fact 18:45 <@rizen> and it's awesome 18:45 < ckotil> but the restart did seem to fix the workflow thing. OR it could have been restarting mod perl after upgradign POE + POE::Component::IKC 18:45 < SDuensin> ckotil - not with bad hardware. It's really the server, not what's on it. 18:45 * SDuensin hasn't had time to fix it. 18:45 < greghacke> ok, instructions, river, etc. should show up soon 18:45 < ckotil> ouch 18:46 < SDuensin> Got two boxes I can use for it. One has a bad northbridge. The other, no idea. I'm hoping it's just a power supply. 18:47 <@rizen> i got the instructions 18:47 <@rizen> so thanks for that 18:47 < ckotil> rizen: did you get to see my proposed rfe? about 9am this morning, in the channel. 18:47 <@rizen> yes i did 18:47 <@rizen> hence why i ignored it 18:47 <@rizen> =) 18:47 < ckotil> so no go? 18:47 <@rizen> it's very easy to do...but i don't see any need for it 18:48 <@rizen> and on top of that, will likely cause me more support headaches than it's worth 18:48 < ckotil> added flexibility 18:48 < ckotil> k. 18:48 <@rizen> you're going to have to argue a very strong point if you want it added 18:48 < ckotil> luckily for me, my manager doesnt like bread crumb navigation so its not really an issue anymore 18:49 <@rizen> even with bread crumb it's not a problem 19:03 < ckotil> but it is. since im placing the assets that make up our internal repositories beneath an asset thats hidden, the crumb trail nav asset will not recognize the assets that exist beneath the hidden asset 19:04 < ckotil> i have page layout asset (hidden) > oage layout asset > page layout asset | folder asset 19:05 < ckotil> the reason for doing that is because they want the repositories to exist beneath each mini-NOC site. 19:06 < ckotil> and not exist in one place beneath our main NOC site. and then I would use shortcut assets to make it appear to exist u nder each mini NOC site. they didnt want that because in the asset view (whcih noone would ever fucking use) they would see that they dont actually exist beneath each mini NOC site 19:06 < ckotil> 19:11 <@rizen> did you see the show hidden option on the navigation asset? 19:15 < ckotil> <3 19:15 < ckotil> slipped my mind. 19:15 < ckotil> thanks 19:26 -!- greghacke [n=greghack@66-162-187-24.static.twtelecom.net] has left #webgui [] 19:31 < ckotil> this makes my job so easy :) this being webgui 19:32 < ckotil> i like how show hidden pages is separate from show unpriviledge pages 19:33 <@rizen> i'm glad you approve 19:33 < ckotil> heh, riiight. 19:33 < ckotil> im glad you're pretending to be glad 19:34 <@rizen> no, it seriously does make me happy to hear that it makes people's jobs easier 19:34 <@rizen> that's what webgui is supposed to be all about 19:34 < ckotil> good. it really does. 19:34 <@rizen> too often i hear: webgui is too hard to install, or webgui is to hard to learn 19:35 <@rizen> but what they don't realize is that if you take that time investment...it pays off later 19:35 < ckotil> in the right hands those things arent an issue 19:35 < ckotil> indeed 19:40 < SDuensin> My only complaint is that it's too hard to get hosted. Unfortunately, I can't (yet) afford to let PB do it. 19:40 <@rizen> did you see we have a $20 option now? 19:40 < SDuensin> I'll check it out! 19:40 <@rizen> but you are right...it's a big system..and is hard to get hosted 19:44 < SDuensin> I think I'm going to shoot for "Agency Hosting" with you in the (hopefully) near future. For some of my sites, I really need shell access to do bulk imports and such. (At least, I think I need it.) 19:50 <@rizen> agency hosting doesn't give you shell access 19:51 < SDuensin> Yea. I know. 19:51 <@rizen> k 19:51 < SDuensin> Can I bulk-load with the File Pile? 19:51 <@rizen> bulk load what? images? 19:51 < SDuensin> Images, general files. 19:51 < SDuensin> Or what does the zip asset do? 19:51 < SDuensin> Even the file pile would be hell with some of my galleries. 19:51 <@rizen> whatever it is, if it's not a regular occurance we can run fileImport.pl for you 19:52 <@rizen> the file pile will let you upload 10 or so files at a time 19:52 < SDuensin> Yea. We have over 1000 images of our daughter on our site. :-) 19:56 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui 19:56 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ 20:05 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has joined #webgui 20:05 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 20:05 <+perlDreamer> Will the world please slow down so I can get off? 20:06 <@rizen> i agree 20:13 <+perlDreamer> rizen: you can close this RFE with your erik.svanberg fix http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/managecommittedversions-in-reverse-chronological-order#cnQ0RwXVFpzgJRFgvatD3g 20:13 <+perlDreamer> in your copious spare time, of course :) 20:14 <@rizen> my erik svanberg fix isn't the same screen 20:14 <@rizen> it's the manage revisions screen 20:14 <@rizen> for a given asset 20:15 <+perlDreamer> oh, okay 20:15 <@rizen> how many lines of code is your change? 20:15 <@rizen> you say you have it prototyped? 20:15 <+perlDreamer> yes 20:15 <@rizen> mine was a one line fix 20:15 <+perlDreamer> I think it's a sort clause in the SQL query 20:15 <+perlDreamer> It's at home on my laptop 20:15 <@rizen> in that case go ahead an add it 20:16 <@rizen> no reason to wait on that one 20:16 <+perlDreamer> I'll do it tonight 20:16 <+perlDreamer> do you want me to work on his Calendar Feed uiLevel > 5 bug, too? 20:16 <+perlDreamer> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/calender-feed-events#YuUpcHQDo52vSJ-SGI04xw 20:18 <@rizen> sure...i'm still stuck on priority rockstar requests 20:22 <+perlDreamer> three characters may be my smallest bug fix yet, but I'm going to test it anyway ;) 20:55 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 20:55 -!- snapcount_ [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:55 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ 20:57 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@ip56503e61.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #webgui 21:01 < ckotil> hrm seems like another calendar bug. I had deleted the calendar asset i was testing on my site the other day w/ the ical feeds. and now a workflow is trying to run on that asset, but cant find it :/ 21:01 < ckotil> shall I report this? 21:04 <+perlDreamer> Is it trashed or deleted? 21:05 < ckotil> both 21:07 <+perlDreamer> It was trashed, then you deleted it? 21:08 < ckotil> i deleted it. 21:08 < ckotil> then purged the trash 21:08 <@rizen> part of the purge operation should also remove the workflow activity 21:09 <@rizen> if it's not, then that's a bug 21:09 < ckotil> k, its the hourly workflow trying to run. 21:11 <+perlDreamer> feeds get registered in their own table, Calendar_feeds 21:12 <+perlDreamer> delete may not be able to remove them, because they could be used by more than 1 calendar 21:12 <+perlDreamer> I need to check into it more 21:15 <+perlDreamer> yup, Calendar needs a purge method to clean out its feeds 21:15 <+perlDreamer> ckotil: please report this as a bug, and give your 100 karma for wonderful IRC bug reporting 21:15 <+perlDreamer> You didn't bash anybody from PB or WebGUI while doing it 21:16 <+perlDreamer> You didn't whine 21:16 <+perlDreamer> You answered questions promptly 21:19 <+perlDreamer> rizen: as part of this bugfix do we need an update script which deletes unused feeds from the db? 21:20 < ckotil> good deaal. 21:22 <@rizen> yes we need to clean up after ourselves 21:23 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@ip56503e61.direct-adsl.nl] has quit ["Xirc - MacOSX"] 21:24 <@rizen> quick opinion question 21:24 <@rizen> if a user creates a url like: this.foo.bar.php.dish/that.crap.this.home.html/home.html 21:24 < ckotil> uh oh. the workflow errors are piling up. seem to double up each hour (there were two feeds) 21:24 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@ip56503e61.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #webgui 21:25 < ckotil> what do i need to delete, and what table do i look in? 21:25 <@rizen> do you see any reason why it would be bad if webgui automatically changed it to something useful like: this/that/home.html 21:25 <+perlDreamer> ckotil, I'll have some code for you in just a few 21:25 < ckotil> k 21:25 <@rizen> ckotil: just disable those workflows for the time being 21:25 < ckotil> alright. 21:25 <@rizen> or rather the scheduelr 21:25 <@rizen> the scheduler that's kickiing them off 21:26 <+perlDreamer> rizen: so long as there's no clash, why not? 21:26 <@rizen> i don't see any reason why not either 21:26 <@rizen> just one of my rockstar clients actually puts extensions on their urls 21:26 <@rizen> and they want it to automatically remove the extra extensions in the directory structure 21:27 < ckotil> it does that now. 21:27 <@rizen> so if they create page.html and then page.html/article.html 21:27 < ckotil> i add .html as my extension 21:27 <@rizen> it will turn that second url into 21:27 <@rizen> page/article.html 21:27 < ckotil> im PRETTY sure thats how it works now anyway. seems to 21:27 <@rizen> rather than page.html/article.html 21:27 < ckotil> right 21:27 <@rizen> no it doesn't 21:27 <@rizen> i just created the chunk of code to make it do that 21:28 <@rizen> # remove multiple extensions from the url if there are some 21:28 <@rizen> while ($url =~ m{^(.*)\.\w+(/.*)$}) { 21:28 <@rizen> $url =~ s{^(.*)\.\w+(/.*)$}{$1$2}ig; 21:28 <@rizen> } 21:28 < ckotil> =] well its been working like that for me, for some time now 21:28 <@rizen> then i guess you don't care that i'm going to add this piece of code 21:28 < ckotil> not at all. i welcome it. 21:28 < SDuensin> DUCK! FLYING ASCII! 21:30 <+perlDreamer> ckotil, do you want me to scriptify this, or can you pull it from SVN? 21:31 <+perlDreamer> It's 4 lines of code, but it needs a session var 21:31 < ckotil> ive never pulled from SVN before. if you feel like holding my hand through the process, then i wont need the script 21:33 <+perlDreamer> there's probably a way to write it as a subselect, something like: 21:33 <+perlDreamer> DELETE from Calendar_feeds WHERE assetId NOT IN ( select distinct assetId from Calendar) 21:34 <+perlDreamer> DELETE from Calendar_feeds WHERE assetId NOT IN ( select distinct(assetId) from Calendar) 21:35 <+perlDreamer> if you have a backup of your db, you could try the second query 21:36 < ckotil> ill make a new backup and issue that 21:37 < ckotil> 2 rows affected. 21:38 <+perlDreamer> now, try to run the hourly workflow and see if you get bugs again 21:38 <@rizen> hannibal et portus 21:38 < ckotil> k 21:39 <+perlDreamer> looking good? 21:39 <+perlDreamer> btw, where do you work? 21:39 < ckotil> yeah, we're good 21:40 < ckotil> thanks a lot man. 21:40 < ckotil> i work for the global research NOC 21:40 < ckotil> we monitor advanced research networks 21:40 < ckotil> internet2 is the most well known 21:40 < ckotil> but theres also National LambdaRail and some others 21:40 <+perlDreamer> cool. I thought you deserved a mention in the changelog for guinea pigging this 21:40 < ckotil> sweet 21:42 <+perlDreamer> and there's your karma 21:42 <+perlDreamer> now go vote up an RFE or something 21:42 <+perlDreamer> :) 21:43 < ckotil> wikd. 21:44 < ckotil> ive been keeping my karma above 1000. now i have some breathing room for that 21:45 < SDuensin> What good is karma on the PB site? 21:46 < ckotil> boosting rfe rankings 21:46 < ckotil> giving thumbs up or thumbs down on a forum post. 21:46 < ckotil> in the future we might be able to spend it on webgui warez 22:09 <@rizen> ckotil: your users are fired 22:10 <@rizen> and when i say fired...think of me with veins bulging out of my neck and a red face, and I say "FIIIIRRREEDDD!!" 22:10 < ckotil> they are network engineers. 22:10 <@rizen> that's why they are fired 22:10 < ckotil> half are engineers. other half are service desk people. 22:10 < ckotil> and the service desk types are worse. 22:10 <@rizen> if they were normal users, i could see why they would forget to commit 22:10 <@rizen> but these people are technical 22:10 < ckotil> ya, its mind boggling 22:11 < ckotil> http://www.ratemynetworkdiagram.com/index.php?z=1 22:11 < ckotil> not my network. i think its just amazing there exists a site like this 22:13 <@rizen> real network engineers don't use diagrams 22:13 <@rizen> they use the "status" report 22:13 < ckotil> i like this commit reminder macro. 22:14 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@ip56503e61.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:14 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 22:14 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 22:14 <@rizen> you mean because i'm a genius? 22:14 <@rizen> don't mind me...just stroking my own ego. =) 22:14 < ckotil> you rule webgui 22:15 <@rizen> nah..not these days 22:15 <@rizen> these days it's guys like MrHairgrease, preaction, and perlDreamer that rule webgui 22:17 < ckotil> http://www.ratemynetworkdiagram.com/?i=1318 22:20 <@rizen> hehe 22:21 <@rizen> i have lots of neighbors with connections..unfortunately all of them secure them 22:21 <@rizen> damn educated neighbors 22:22 <@rizen> pd, remember that big gaming rig i bought? 22:22 <@rizen> i set up a lan party for last saturday 22:22 <@rizen> some people showed up friday night and we played for a bit 22:22 <@rizen> the next morning i woke up, and sat down ready to play 22:22 <@rizen> and the machine died 22:22 <@rizen> motherboard fried 22:22 <@rizen> or something 22:23 <@rizen> i hate computers 22:23 <@preaction> how? it's been all of a month? 22:23 <@rizen> i know 22:23 <@preaction> and you probably haven't used it much 22:23 <@rizen> the worst part that it was literally working up until the very minute the lan party was supposed to start 22:23 <@preaction> that's messed up 22:24 < ckotil> ouch. 22:24 * preaction spent 12 hours finishing the UEF campaign last night 22:24 < ckotil> ya computers blow 22:34 < ckotil> i set the font size to 40 on that macro. i cant wait to hear everyones reaction. 22:35 <@rizen> did it work 22:35 <@rizen> i wrote it from scratch without testing 22:35 < ckotil> like a charm. 22:35 <@rizen> ok 22:35 < ckotil> thank you 22:35 <@rizen> np 22:35 <@rizen> oh crap..i meant to add some other things to the css 22:35 <@rizen> like position: absolute 22:35 <+MrHairgrease> this compuer doesn't blow 22:35 <+MrHairgrease> http://www.keithley.com/products/currentvoltage/?mn=4200-SCS 22:35 <@rizen> top: 0 22:36 <@rizen> left: 200px; 22:36 <@rizen> that sort of thing 22:36 <+MrHairgrease> even though it runs nt4 22:36 <@rizen> i assume you already did that? 22:36 < ckotil> i kinda like how it works without it. 22:36 < ckotil> ill throw it in, and see how i like it. 22:37 < ckotil> no way in hell someone can forget to commit now >:) 22:45 <@rizen> i would think not 22:45 <@rizen> take a screen shot 22:45 <@rizen> i want to see it 22:45 < ckotil> k 22:48 < ckotil> http://snare.grnoc.iu.edu/stuff/grab.tiff i think 22:49 <+MrHairgrease> be sure to include 22:49 <+MrHairgrease> text-decoration: blink; 22:49 <+MrHairgrease> in the css 22:49 < ckotil> hehehehe 22:49 <+MrHairgrease> to bad the marquee tag is depricated 22:50 <@rizen> nice...i can't imagine that they'd be able to miss that 22:50 <@rizen> you might want to change the text 22:51 <+MrHairgrease> yeah 22:51 <+MrHairgrease> it misses fool 22:51 <+MrHairgrease> or mudsucker 22:51 <@rizen> Commit Your Changes You Fucking Bastards That Should Know Better WIthout Me Having To Put this Big Box Up Here! 22:51 * MrHairgrease has been watching ateam reruns 22:51 < ckotil> hehe 22:51 < ckotil> you should add that to the contributions 22:51 <+MrHairgrease> imagine how that would lokk through the leetout 22:54 <@rizen> you have a broken macro 22:54 <@rizen> ^GetTitle(); 22:56 < ckotil> yeah yeah. thats my dev site. i just leave stuff broken 22:56 < ckotil> noone to impress 22:58 <@rizen> stupid scanner driver 22:58 <@rizen> gotta reboot...brb 22:59 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] 23:16 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 23:17 <+perlDreamer> rizen! 23:17 <+perlDreamer> long time no see 23:17 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ 23:17 <+perlDreamer> sorry to hear about your box 23:31 <@rizen> hey, don't talk about my box that way 23:32 <@rizen> you don't even know sarah that well 23:32 <+perlDreamer> you're the one who said it overheated and died, dude 23:33 <+perlDreamer> she was probably thumping you in SupCom anyway 23:33 <@rizen> i never said it overheated 23:33 <+perlDreamer> true, but fried is usually an overheating problem 23:34 <@rizen> i have decided that i'm never touching a computer again 23:34 <@rizen> or anything electronic 23:34 <@rizen> i'm going to go live in the hills somewhere 23:34 <@rizen> live off the land 23:34 <+perlDreamer> living off the land is hard, you're either hovering or floating 23:34 <+perlDreamer> live on the land instead 23:35 <@preaction> it's not hard, you just have to throw yourself at the ground and miss 23:35 <@rizen> i mean, working the land 23:35 <@rizen> tera is done copying help to wiki 23:37 <+perlDreamer> wow 23:37 <+perlDreamer> she works fast 23:37 <+perlDreamer> should we start the purge on the source code size? 23:38 <@preaction> as in, the help is now a wiki asset inside the default install? 23:39 <+perlDreamer> more like on the wG main site 23:42 <+perlDreamer> preaction: in Calendar getEventsIn, why are Start dates inclusive (<=) but not End dates? 23:43 <@preaction> because if you have: 2006-01-01 01:00:00 until 2006-01-01 02:00:00, and then the next page has 2006-01-01 02:00:00 until (one hour later), if you have an event that is at 2006-01-01 02:00:00, it would show up on both pages 23:44 <+perlDreamer> that makes sense 23:44 <@preaction> basically, one day is 2006-01-01 from 00:00:00 until 23:59:59, and it's easier to show than using < instead of <= 23:59:59 23:44 <+perlDreamer> I'm working on a calendar bug where if you define a week-long event and then go to the day view the event only shows up on the day with the start date 23:44 <@preaction> also, it's possible to have 23:59:60 (leap seconds) 23:45 <+perlDreamer> I want to make sure that I get all the current logic before tinkering 23:45 <@preaction> oh, the reason that happens is because i didn't specifically show the event on more than one day, look at the viewMonth, there's a comment with "Show this event on all the days it spans" 23:45 <+perlDreamer> yup, already did that one 23:45 <@preaction> i believe i was told that i should only do that on the month view 23:46 <@rizen> no, we can't start purging until 7.4 23:46 <@preaction> example: for the day view it's divided into hours, does that mean the event should be shown on every single hour in which it occurs? 23:46 <@rizen> because we can't get rid of the help system interface until we have the template builder thingy in place 23:48 <@rizen> it's been 18 years since the chernobyl disaster, and still no superheros 23:49 <@preaction> Dr. Soresh says it will happen, if we find them. 23:50 < SDuensin> It happened. They're just all that invisible guy. 23:52 <+MrHairgrease> check out the totally rewritten TextImage Macro 23:52 <+MrHairgrease> http://rafb.net/p/nJI6gK84.html 23:53 <+MrHairgrease> it's almost finised 23:53 <@rizen> lame 23:54 * MrHairgrease starts crying 23:54 <@rizen> sweet..i made you cry 23:55 <@rizen> you're using Image::Magick 23:55 <+MrHairgrease> i'm used to it 23:55 <@rizen> but don't "use" it 23:55 <+MrHairgrease> yeah 23:55 <+MrHairgrease> still works though 23:55 <@rizen> and...i think i should shame you 23:55 <@rizen> because you're not using WebGUI::Graphics 23:55 <+MrHairgrease> shame me 23:55 <+MrHairgrease> that's true 23:55 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@163.sub-75-206-252.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:56 <+MrHairgrease> i just rewrote the original 23:56 <+MrHairgrease> fixing some bugs 23:56 <@preaction> where's WebGUI::Graphics? 23:56 <+MrHairgrease> and the 1st one was written before webgui image 23:56 <@rizen> sorry 23:56 <@rizen> webgui::image 23:56 <@preaction> k --- Day changed Fri Mar 09 2007 00:21 <@rizen> ok peeps 00:21 <@rizen> i've finally caught up on all my support 00:21 <@rizen> the question is...should i push out 7.3.12 or should we wait for next week 00:22 <@rizen> it's already pretty late in the day, and I'm guessing that only idiots would upgrade on a friday 00:24 * rizen hears crickets 00:25 <+MrHairgrease> i'd say 00:25 <+MrHairgrease> don't push it 00:26 <+perlDreamer> next week 00:26 <+perlDreamer> more bug fixing 00:26 <+perlDreamer> more WRE work 00:28 <@rizen> i'm going back to working on my caching problem that i started out the week working on 00:30 <@rizen> are you guys aware of just how big of balls you have to have to be me? 00:31 <@rizen> oh...and how perfect and handsome as well 00:31 <@rizen> don't forget that 00:31 <+MrHairgrease> wtf? 00:31 <+MrHairgrease> are you eurotrash too? 00:31 <@rizen> i think you're rubbing off on me 00:31 <+perlDreamer> gooeybot, rizen has big balls that are handsome 00:31 < gooeybot> OK, perlDreamer. 00:32 <+perlDreamer> or something like that 00:43 <+perlDreamer> Don't do the release today! 00:46 <@rizen> ok, i'm doing the release now then 00:48 <+perlDreamer> there's a little bug in WebGUI I just found 00:48 <+perlDreamer> maybe w 00:48 <+perlDreamer> w 00:48 <+perlDreamer> 2 00:48 <@rizen> i wouldn't believe you 00:48 <@preaction> those are features 00:48 <@rizen> bugs in webgui 00:48 <+perlDreamer> try to add an Asset to a dev site running svn head 00:48 <@rizen> unheard of 00:49 <@rizen> hold on...need to update to make sure i have latest stuff 00:49 <+perlDreamer> you don't need to update 00:49 <+perlDreamer> it's already there 00:50 <@rizen> hold on...need to look at pictures of hot girls 00:51 <@rizen> added successfully 00:51 <@rizen> no errors generated 00:51 <+perlDreamer> now turn off your slaves and try it again 00:51 <@rizen> kathy dresses you funny 00:51 <+perlDreamer> it's true 00:52 <+perlDreamer> dbSlave will pull a random hash from the slaves array, even if one does not exist and try to make a connection with it 00:52 <+perlDreamer> that connection will fail and wG has a hissy fit 00:52 <@rizen> it's ok, marjin dresses martin funny as well 00:52 <+perlDreamer> 2007/03/08 14:32:42 - WARN - mywebgui.conf - Log::Log4perl::Logger::__ANON__[41] - Couldn't call method add on asset for url: home Root cause: Can't connect to data source , no database driver specified and DBI_DSN env var not set at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm line 319 00:53 <@rizen> i tested it with the slaves...just not without 00:53 <@rizen> do i get 50% credit? 00:53 <+perlDreamer> yup 00:53 <@rizen> i'll fix 00:53 <@rizen> i broke 00:53 <+perlDreamer> I already have it fixed 00:53 <+perlDreamer> just need to commit 00:53 * perlDreamer has problems with commitment 00:53 <@rizen> so you just wanted to fuck with me then? 00:54 <@rizen> rub my nose in it like a dog that shat on your carpet? 00:54 <+perlDreamer> no, you said you were going to do a release 00:54 <+perlDreamer> and I had to assume that you weren't joking 00:54 <@rizen> no i said i wasn't doing a release 00:54 <+perlDreamer> (14:46:34) rizen: ok, i'm doing the release now then 00:55 <@rizen> that was right after you siad...don't do a release 00:58 <+perlDreamer> I see, you were being contrary 00:59 <@rizen> i'm always contrary 00:59 <@rizen> except when i'm not 00:59 <+perlDreamer> just like you're trying to keep me from dominating the SVN log 00:59 <@rizen> see i'm even contrary to myself 00:59 <@rizen> except when i'm not 00:59 <@rizen> i am? 00:59 <+perlDreamer> yes 00:59 <@rizen> you mean with all the commits i did this week? 00:59 <+perlDreamer> every time I make 19 commits in a row, you add one 00:59 <@rizen> heh 01:00 <@rizen> not my intent...just trying to fix client problems 01:00 <@rizen> and if the person i have on staff to fix bugs would ever fix any..there wouldn't be any bugfixes for you to commit 01:00 <+perlDreamer> you have an on staff bug fixer? 01:01 <@rizen> yes 01:01 <@rizen> well 50% of his job is to do bugfixing 01:01 <@rizen> he and i are going to have to have a chat though..cuz i've noticed that i'm fixing more bugs than him...and i'm not fixing very many 01:03 <+MrHairgrease> my personal fashion guru is honored 01:03 <+MrHairgrease> and she sais hi 01:03 <+MrHairgrease> says* 01:03 <+MrHairgrease> and I say 01:03 <+MrHairgrease> good night 01:03 <@rizen> night 01:03 <+perlDreamer> gute nacht 01:05 <@rizen> what's the url for the irc log? 01:05 <@rizen> i want the url to ckotils screen shot from earlier 01:07 <+perlDreamer> http://mentalhouse.net/irc/logs/webgui/2007-03.log 01:09 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] 01:23 -!- patspam [n=notgiven@203-214-26-249.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #webgui 01:23 < patspam> hey all 01:24 < patspam> I'm populating the options in a select box from user input (entries separated by newlines) 01:24 < patspam> does wG have an escape function i can use to properly escape the user input? 01:26 <+perlDreamer> look in WebGUI::HTML 01:28 < patspam> yeah i had a look in there, nothing really seemed to fit the bill 01:29 < patspam> it might be enough to just replace double quotes in the user input 01:30 <+perlDreamer> I thought somebody put a filtering function in the core somewhere, but I could be wrong. 01:30 <+perlDreamer> You can also ask HTML::Template to do it for you 01:30 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui 01:30 < patspam> ah ok, thanks 01:33 -!- preaction_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 01:36 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI 01:37 < patspam> I think I'll use HTML::Entities::encode() 01:40 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:01 -!- patspam [n=notgiven@203-214-26-249.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 02:11 -!- TheSeparator [i=Seppie@cp43027-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has left #webgui [] 02:29 -!- preaction_ is now known as preaction 02:29 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 02:29 <@preaction> O'Doyle Rules! 02:31 <@rizen> he does? 02:31 <@rizen> why? 02:31 <@rizen> i'm not saying i disagree. 02:34 <@rizen> wahoo...no mobo on the way 02:49 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"] 02:54 < Radix-wrk> no new Heroes for a month and a half :( 02:56 <@rizen> i know..that sux ass 02:56 <@rizen> ok..i need an opinion...we have an open programmer position 02:56 <@rizen> should we pay for advertising on jobs.perl.org 02:57 < Radix-wrk> expensive? 02:57 <@rizen> wisconsinjob.com (biggest jobs site locally) 02:57 <@rizen> or monster 02:57 <@rizen> assume cost doesn't matter 02:57 <@preaction> you have to pay for jobs.perl.org? 02:57 <@preaction> well, you did find me on jobs.perl.org 02:57 <@rizen> you can post for free on jobs.perl.org 02:57 <@rizen> BUT 02:57 <@rizen> you fall off the front page within 3 days 02:58 <@rizen> you can buy a permanent spot on the front page for 30 days 02:58 < Radix-wrk> I'd assume that jobs.perl.org would be the best place to find a perl programmer myself - but depends how determined you are to find someone local I guess. 02:58 <@rizen> local would be nice..but not necessary 02:59 <@rizen> but being local has all sorts of advantages 02:59 < Radix-wrk> try free at least.. if no cost then should be a given 02:59 <@rizen> and by local i mean within driving distance 02:59 <@rizen> i already posted on jobs.perl.org 02:59 < Radix-wrk> k 02:59 <@rizen> and we fell off the list in 3 days 02:59 <@rizen> got 10 resumes 03:00 <@rizen> we're not allowed to post the job again for 60 days on that site 03:00 <@rizen> i suppose i could rewrite the job description a little and call it a new job 03:01 <@rizen> preaction...do you know anybody like you...cuz i'd love to hire another you 03:01 < Radix-wrk> hehe.. clone him! 03:01 <@preaction> find me a cadre of attractive, intelligent womens! i've got your clone right here 03:01 <@rizen> that will take years 03:02 <@rizen> need someone sooner 03:02 <@rizen> =) 03:02 < Radix-wrk> might take a few years to train tho 03:02 <@preaction> damnit, i'm beginning to think there'll be no forced mating at all... 03:02 <@rizen> oh there will be...but it will be to my ugly sister 03:02 <@rizen> =) 03:03 <@rizen> and it won't be a bonus, but rather a punishment...if you miss your current deadline 03:05 <@preaction> you know what they say about the ugly ones... 03:05 <@preaction> but dude, that's your sister 03:06 <@preaction> it'd be evil to inflict me upon her. i'm an arrogant nerd. what part of that is good? 03:06 <@rizen> wait until you meet my sister...you'll change your tune 03:07 <@preaction> i'll bet she's more attractive than at least two of my ex-gfs :p 03:07 <@preaction> i mean, JT with bewbs, could be hot 03:07 * preaction should stop before this gets ugly 03:08 <@rizen> yeah 03:08 <@rizen> on second thought...i don't want another you on staff 03:09 <@preaction> there can be only one! 03:20 <@rizen> i think that as an incentive to get all my employees to move to madison, i will declare fridays "Catan Fridays" 03:20 <@rizen> where we do nothing but play Settlers of Catan every friday 03:25 < xdanger> love that game 03:26 <@rizen> oh yeah..check this out...mayfair games uses webgui 03:26 <@rizen> i'm hoping to bid on the new catanonline.com project 03:26 <@rizen> to build the ajax version of catan online 03:27 <@rizen> and build it IN WEBGUI 03:28 < xdanger> sweet =) 03:29 <@preaction> i've never played, but wikipedia seems to make it look decently fun 03:30 < xdanger> there's a free online java version of it somewhere 03:30 < xdanger> A student project or something like that... nothing fancy 03:32 < xdanger> but now some sleep... 03:42 <@preaction> remind me to take my next paycheque and invest in a decent living room set... this futon is starting to make my bottom hurt like nobody's business 03:48 -!- snapcount_ [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 03:48 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:54 <@rizen> preaction: use your next check to buy a couch 03:54 <@rizen> this is your reminder 03:55 <@preaction> thanks! 04:48 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui 04:48 < PedersenMJ> good evening 04:48 <@preaction> bonjourno, que pata? 04:49 < PedersenMJ> nada mucho, y tu? 04:49 < Radix-wrk> que? 04:50 <@preaction> 13+ days of working 10 hours a day... i'm tire 04:50 < PedersenMJ> nada mucho esta pasando para mi. Solo pregunte lo que pasa para todos de Uds. 04:50 <@preaction> i would totally rather be playing SupCom right now 04:50 < PedersenMJ> A proposito, le que dije fue para Radix. 04:50 <@preaction> but if i start it, i won't get done until 5am 04:51 < PedersenMJ> Well, still sounds like you need a day off anyway... 04:51 * Radix-wrk 's entire spanish vocabulary comes from reruns of Faulty Towers. He doesn't understand a word of what Ped said. 04:51 <@preaction> Radix-wrk: is fawlty towers worth downloading? i did Black Adder and it sucked 04:52 <@preaction> but i did Red Dwarf and that was amazing 04:52 < Radix-wrk> pfft.. shame on you 04:52 <@preaction> i'm on Scrubs right now 04:52 <@preaction> wtf? 04:52 < PedersenMJ> Well, to translate, one line at a time: 04:52 * preaction adjusts his eye-patch 04:52 <@preaction> there aren't any ninjas in here, right? 04:52 < Radix-wrk> Black Adder (with the exception of season 1) is one of the greatest comedy shows ever 04:52 < PedersenMJ> "Nothing much, and you?" 04:52 <@preaction> ohh, so it's season 1 that sucked 04:52 <@preaction> there'd be the reason why i didn't get past it 04:53 < PedersenMJ> "Nothing much is happening for me. I just asked what was happening for all of you." 04:53 <@preaction> but seriously, Red Dwarf tops Black Adder any day of the week 04:53 < PedersenMJ> "By the way, I said that for Radix" 04:53 <@preaction> "He's Arnold, Arnold, Arnold Rimmer / Without him life would be much dimmer." 04:53 < PedersenMJ> Never watched either of those shows. Someday, I'll get around to it. 04:53 < Radix-wrk> Season 1 was pretty poor - but Seasons 2+ are classics, mostly because they got Ben Elton to start writing for them from season 2 onwards 04:54 < PedersenMJ> What I saw of Fawlty Towers, though, was, well, rather sucky. 04:54 <@rizen> you're all wrong, The Colbert Report is the best of all time 04:54 < Radix-wrk> Red Dwarf is funny, but lacks the subtlety of Black Adder 04:54 <@rizen> Which religion wins for best Apocalypse? The Toyota Camry due to it's side impact air bags. 04:55 <@preaction> rizen: have you become spam? 04:55 <@rizen> Most news shows tell the news to you. I swear that as long as I'm on the air, I'll feel the news at you. 04:56 <@rizen> i'm not spam...just telling you quips from the daily show 04:57 <@rizen> sorry, from the colbert report 04:57 <@rizen> what, i can't recite lines, but you guys can 04:57 <@rizen> such a double standard in this place 04:57 <@preaction> nono, it just sounded like those spam e-mails 04:57 < PedersenMJ> nah, those spam emails make less sense. 04:57 < PedersenMJ> I didn't recognize the quotes, but could see there was some form of logic to them. 04:58 < PedersenMJ> What's really scary is that I actually *did* see some logic in there. 05:00 <@preaction> "Star search at age, determined diva was? Mediatilt ya head back, discusses balancing love medley livefrom." 05:00 <@preaction> it's like something out of an eliza-bot 05:01 < PedersenMJ> Now *that* sounds like a spam. 05:05 <@preaction> is there a cache that gets built for lineage or something? it seems the first page view of a page that has a large number of descendants takes a while and does a lot of db queries 05:05 <@preaction> this is after a migration script is run 05:06 <@rizen> is there a nav on that page? 05:06 <@rizen> every asset in that nav has to be instanciated 05:06 <@preaction> there is a nav asset, but all the assets are hidden 05:06 <@rizen> which is why large hierarchical navs in webgui are a bad idea 05:06 <@rizen> doesn't matter if they are hidden 05:06 <@preaction> and later page views do not do the 5300 queries 05:06 <@rizen> it still has to instanciate them to find out that it's hidden 05:07 <@preaction> that doesn't sound good. why not just "where isHidden IS NULL"? 05:07 <@preaction> because it could skip a lineage step, i see 05:07 <@rizen> no 05:08 <@rizen> the problem is that we need to skip descendants of anything that's hidden 05:08 <@rizen> so we need to know what's hidden 05:08 <@rizen> and find out the lineage of that 05:08 <@rizen> because the descendants might not be hidden 05:08 <@rizen> and then skip anything that also has that lineage 05:08 <@preaction> right. it could skip the hidden one, and that one might have children that are hidden (i just didn't write it into english very well) 05:08 <@rizen> why can't you just trust that i'm a genius 05:09 <@preaction> oh... i.uh.. no reason 05:09 <@rizen> navigation is roughly the hardest thing that webgui has to do 05:09 <@preaction> amen to that 05:09 <@preaction> and the flexibility of the nav asset is definitely a testament to your genius 05:09 <@preaction> ability to make breadcrumb trails using it, pure gold 05:11 <@rizen> the original genius for the nav asset is actually len kranendonk 05:11 <@rizen> i just refined his idea to make it what it is 05:11 <@rizen> i'm not a genius 05:11 <@rizen> but i do wish i could make the nav asset less hard on the system 05:13 <@preaction> perhaps add "include classes"? i mean, most of the extra-numerous things are Threads and Events and similar assets. so if someone wants them in their nav, they have to add them to the nav themselves? 05:15 <@rizen> that would probably be somewhat helpful 05:15 <@rizen> but maybe more useful would be "include only containers" 05:16 <@rizen> yes/no 05:16 <@rizen> yours is more flexible 05:16 <@preaction> it'd be easier, sure 05:16 <@rizen> but how often are you going to select stuff other than containers 05:16 <@rizen> except when you want everything 05:16 <@preaction> true, but navigation calls $asset->get, no? 05:16 <@preaction> to get the vars? 05:17 <@rizen> yes 05:17 <@rizen> why do you ask? 05:17 <@preaction> you could totally subvert the entire navigation asset to make a "master calendar" or a "all forum threads" thingy 05:17 <@rizen> it doesn't get the whole set of vars though 05:17 <@preaction> oh, nm 05:17 <@rizen> it only gets those relevant to nav 05:17 <@preaction> that idea remains an idea, once i find a way to implement it 05:17 <@rizen> title, menutitle, synopsis etc 05:18 <@rizen> it could be a really cool idea 05:18 <@preaction> if done properly ;) 05:18 <@rizen> but you'd have to prove to me that it would not only add cool functionality, but that it would increase performance as well 05:18 <@rizen> the nav and the CS don't get to add anything unless they also increase performance 05:19 <@preaction> oh, no, the nav wouldn't get it. i'd make a new wobject to do this (for the reason you said) 05:19 <@preaction> but i think best bet for the nav restricting classes might either be a radio list ("All", "Containers", or "Choose Your Destiny:") or just a list with two extra buttons, one for "Select All" and one for "Select Container Assets" 05:20 <@preaction> the default being "Containers" for anyone with a uiLevel less than X (X being a larger number than 5) 05:20 <@rizen> i've decided to kill you 05:20 <@preaction> quickly? 05:20 <@rizen> slowly 05:20 <@preaction> damnit 05:20 <@rizen> and provide blood transfusions if necessary 05:20 <@rizen> to draw it out 05:21 <@preaction> pour gasoline in my eyes to make sure i don't pass out? 05:21 <@preaction> a new form element! WebGUI::Form::AssetClasses 05:22 <@preaction> i could totally use that on the meta-wobject thingy i described earlier 05:22 <@preaction> could be worse, i haven't been able to touch the webgui core in weeks 05:23 <@rizen> i've been doing the job of 3 people for the week 05:23 <@rizen> and pretty poorly too 05:23 <@preaction> well, you're only two men! 05:23 <@rizen> i know 05:24 <@preaction> get vrby off his lazy butt 05:24 <@preaction> or Kristy, what does she do around here anyway? 05:24 <@rizen> currently she's doing what you wanted to do 05:24 <@preaction> oh, right, vacation 05:24 <@rizen> which was go out to DC and hang out with the DoS peeps 05:25 <@preaction> but then again, she's doing training. so it's really a tossup 05:25 <@rizen> have you found my new employee yet? 05:25 <@preaction> i've been trying the mitosis thing, but i keep just coming up with dead skin cells 05:26 <@rizen> actually, here's an incentive for you 05:26 <@rizen> the faster we find another good perl guy or girl, the less you have to work 05:26 <@preaction> hmm... guilt-free weekends 05:27 <@preaction> where are these resume sites? don't they let me browse for free? 05:29 <@preaction> wait, girl? there are no girls on the internet! 05:29 <@rizen> we have a girl working for us 05:29 <@rizen> or did you forget 05:29 <@rizen> we actually have 2 05:29 <@rizen> kristi and tera 05:29 <@preaction> i haven't met tera, admittedly 05:29 <@preaction> but, case in point, kristi isn't hanging out here ;) 05:30 <@preaction> s/the internet/the IRC/ 05:30 <@rizen> true..but neither does vrby or steve 05:30 <@rizen> which must make them women 05:30 <@preaction> well... now that you mention it 05:31 <@preaction> doesn't mean there aren't guys who are not on the IRC, it just means that all the men on IRC are men, all the women are men, and all the teenagers are FBI agents 05:52 * PedersenMJ reads the job ad. 05:53 < PedersenMJ> My weaknesses: Very little javascript. Just haven't ever done much with it. Have worked with SQL, but usually stayed with PostGreSQL. 05:53 < PedersenMJ> Oh, and I'm not in WI. 05:54 < PedersenMJ> The rest, though, I've got experience with. Which makes me ask if I should send in a resume? 05:54 <@preaction> you've hung out here: do you think you could handle not being able to click "close" to shut us off? 05:55 < PedersenMJ> Heck, the only reason I've actually closed the window was due to needing to go to bed. And if I had the courage to open up the irc ports at work, I'd log in during the day. 05:56 <@preaction> couldn't hurt to submit the resume 05:57 < PedersenMJ> I'll check it out tomorrow night, and make sure it's up to date, before I do so. 05:57 <@preaction> from what i understand, the opening's for client work. so you'd basically be doing what i do 05:57 <@preaction> some core dev, but mostly client projects 05:58 <@preaction> some support 05:58 <@preaction> depending, of course, on where the powers that be are going with the new hiring 05:59 <@rizen> is that me? 06:00 <@rizen> the powers that be? 06:00 < PedersenMJ> I would think so, yes. 06:00 <@preaction> you and the operations manager 06:00 <@rizen> i should put a new alert notice in my irc client 06:00 <@rizen> for "the powers that be" 06:00 <@preaction> but how can we refer to you without having a notice pop up at inopportune times 06:01 <@preaction> like when you're spending time with your special lady 06:01 <@preaction> or your wife? 06:01 <@rizen> i'll just turn off irc when that would be a problem 06:02 < PedersenMJ> So, jt, I'll ask you directly (since subtlety has never been a strong point for me): Should I send in my resume? 06:02 <@preaction> turn... "off"... irc? qu'est-ce que c'est 06:03 <@rizen> absolutely 06:03 <@rizen> i can't rule you out until i know what you can do 06:03 <@rizen> likewise i can't rule you in either 06:03 <@rizen> send it to info@plainblack.com 06:03 <@rizen> ok so i've just proven a theory 06:03 <@rizen> webgui is actually slower with cache in some cases 06:03 <@rizen> than without 06:04 < PedersenMJ> I'll do so. I just want to make sure it's up to date. 06:04 <@rizen> if the file cache grows too big, it can become 10 times slower than without cache 06:22 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [] 06:30 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui 06:30 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 07:15 <+perlDreamer> close them all, rizen! 07:15 <@rizen> i'm closing what i can man 07:15 <@rizen> i'm working on the db fatal sql form one right now 07:15 <@rizen> alsmost fixed 07:16 <+perlDreamer> I thought we had to wait until exceptions in 7.4 to fix that one 07:16 <@rizen> we don't need exceptions to fix this 07:16 <@rizen> roy said that 07:16 <@rizen> he's wrong 07:16 <+perlDreamer> gotcha 07:16 <@rizen> as often he is 07:22 <@rizen> one more down 07:23 < PedersenMJ> g'night all. definitely bed time for me. 07:23 <@rizen> later 07:23 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has quit [] 07:27 <@rizen> oops...didn't take into account what you were doing with dbNotAvailable 07:27 <@rizen> have to implement something simpler 07:28 <+perlDreamer> what did I do? 07:28 <@rizen> i assume you created dbNotAvailable 07:29 <+perlDreamer> I don't think so 07:29 * perlDreamer goes to run svn blame 07:29 <@rizen> doesn't matter 07:38 <+perlDreamer> I need you to remind me if we want to fix the calendar bug with the single day view of a multi-view event 07:39 <@rizen> multi day you mean? 07:39 <+perlDreamer> yes 07:39 <+perlDreamer> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/calender#TKMNSvU-0qlmsv3aNk5W7g 07:39 <+perlDreamer> that one 07:39 <@rizen> maybe i don't understand the problem, but i don't know how you can show a multiday event in a single day display 07:39 <@rizen> by definition you're showing only one day 07:39 <@rizen> so how can you see mutliple days? 07:40 <+perlDreamer> you can't. but if you go to the day view for any of the 3 days that event should show 07:40 <+perlDreamer> as all day 07:40 <@rizen> oh yeah it should definitely show 07:40 <@rizen> ok. so that's what i was missing 07:40 <@rizen> yes, that should be fixed 07:40 <+perlDreamer> okay 07:49 <+perlDreamer> man, it's easy to alter the SQL to find the events, but it makes the display logic a lot more complex. 07:54 <+perlDreamer> rizen: do you know if DateTime objects have an iterator? 07:54 <@rizen> don't know what you mean 07:55 <+perlDreamer> I need to iterate over days in a month. It would be very convenient if each iterated object was not the day, but a DateTime object of that day already set up 07:55 <+perlDreamer> kind of like 07:56 <+perlDreamer> foreach my $monthDay ( $dt->startDate .. $dt2->endDate) 07:56 <@rizen> i see 07:56 <@rizen> there's nothing like that that i know of 07:56 <@rizen> but you could do a while loop easy 07:57 <@rizen> because there is a $dt->add method 07:57 <@rizen> so just keep adding a day to it 07:57 <@rizen> each time 07:57 <+perlDreamer> cool, that should work right 08:01 <@rizen> nearly every bug left out there is calendar releated 08:01 <@rizen> related 08:01 <+perlDreamer> are you bug fixing tomorrow? 08:01 <@rizen> support + fixing 08:01 <@rizen> first bug on tap is that caching one 08:01 <@rizen> from mlamar 08:02 <+perlDreamer> priority bug fix? 08:02 <@rizen> no...just pissing me off 08:02 <@rizen> =) 08:02 <+perlDreamer> that's the same thing, but it doesn't pay as well 08:02 <@rizen> i hope i'm done with priority stuff for the week 08:02 <@rizen> i fixed a lot of shit already this week 08:03 <+perlDreamer> you were a js hacking fiend 08:03 <@rizen> i hate trying to fix tinymce bugs 08:03 <@rizen> it's so touchy 08:04 <+perlDreamer> Do we need to do some additional testing on these new fixes? 08:04 <@rizen> what new fixes? 08:04 <@rizen> everything we've done so far? 08:04 <+perlDreamer> the tinymce fixes 08:04 <@rizen> oh 08:04 <@rizen> i spent 3 hours testing the changes i made 08:05 <@rizen> i think they work 08:05 <@rizen> and tomorrow the client will have a dozen people testing them 08:05 <+perlDreamer> cool 08:05 <+perlDreamer> we do seem to be making more side effect bugs than we used to 08:05 <+perlDreamer> fixing direct bugs but injecting new bugs sideways 08:06 <@rizen> i may have to rewrite the SQL report just because the peeps that have mutilated it into what it is 08:06 <@rizen> were on crack 08:06 <@rizen> it's totally hard to understand these days 08:06 <+perlDreamer> PBP it to death 08:06 <@rizen> that's what i'm thinking 08:06 <@rizen> as i've been going here i've been trying to do that 08:07 <@rizen> all the stuff i've committed has had new comments, white space, }\n else { breaks 08:07 <@rizen> etc 08:07 <+perlDreamer> that's called uncuddled elses 08:07 <@rizen> i knew there was a name.. 08:07 <@rizen> .but couldn't remember 08:08 <+perlDreamer> kristi's wrong search one should be an easy one to close if you need a breather from the heavy stuff. 08:08 <+perlDreamer> but knowmad will want to know about phrase searching 08:08 <@rizen> i need a nightcap 08:08 <@rizen> i'm all pow for the day 08:08 <+perlDreamer> pow? 08:09 <+perlDreamer> Prisoner of WebGUI? 08:09 <@rizen> just sprained my brain on the sql report 08:09 <@rizen> pow = hawaiian for done 08:09 <+perlDreamer> and all this time I thought you were teaching me Chicagoan 08:10 <@rizen> my ex fiance was hawaiian, and that's one of the things i picked up 08:11 <+perlDreamer> well, we'll see you tomorrow then 08:11 <+perlDreamer> same gooey time, same gooey channel 08:11 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit [""good night""] 09:10 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:42 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 09:42 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 10:10 -!- AMH_bob [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui 11:19 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui 14:03 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:49 -!- ckotil [n=newtrino@snare.grnoc.iu.edu] has quit ["leaving"] 16:12 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@15.sub-75-205-235.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI 16:20 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 16:20 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ 16:28 -!- snapcount_ [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:32 <@preaction> perlbot .nl 17:32 < perlbot> .nl is Netherlands 17:32 < gooeybot> i already had it that way, perlbot. 18:04 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"] 18:14 -!- AMH_bob [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui ["User is away."] 18:29 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui 18:29 -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ 18:31 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has joined #webgui 18:31 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 18:32 <+perlDreamer> good work madison, wi 18:32 <+perlDreamer> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070308/ap_on_he_me/fitness_walkable_city;_ylt=AmKpP2Xx9QdhfVAHTUeEI1e9j7AB 18:33 <@rizen> hehe 18:33 <@rizen> we are almost always in the top five best places to live in the nation as well 18:34 <+perlDreamer> You're still trying to seduce us all to move out there, aren't you? 18:34 <+perlDreamer> think about it, no more out of time zone phone calls 18:34 <+perlDreamer> meeting with customers at the pub/coffeehouse down the way 18:34 <+perlDreamer> your life would be so easy 18:34 <@rizen> i'm not trying to ask customers to move here 18:34 <@rizen> but certainly all the devs 18:35 <@rizen> and contributors 18:35 <@rizen> you and crythias should move here 18:35 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI, sponsored by Madison, WI 18:35 <+perlDreamer> you should get the city government to use wG 18:35 <+crythias> don't think wife would like. 18:35 <+perlDreamer> kathy does like snow 18:35 <@rizen> why not? just show her that article 18:36 <@rizen> and she'll be all over it 18:57 <+perlDreamer> oh, man. The tests are screwed 18:59 <@rizen> sweet 18:59 <@rizen> i love screwed tests 19:00 <+perlDreamer> Do you eat them plain or with ketchup? 19:00 <@rizen> mayo usually 19:00 <@rizen> ketchup has too much sugar 19:00 <+perlDreamer> sidebar: Weather::Com needs to be installed on the smoke-test machine 19:00 <@rizen> it is installed 19:01 <@rizen> or at least roy better have installed it when he did the upgrade 19:01 <+perlDreamer> "Can't locate object method "definition" via package WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WeatherData " 19:02 <+perlDreamer> Can't locate Weather/Simple.pm in @INC 19:02 <@rizen> i'm checking it 19:02 <@rizen> hold your horsefeathers together 19:02 <@rizen> you do have horsefeathers don't you? 19:03 <@rizen> it's installed 19:03 <@rizen> weather/simple 19:03 <@rizen> did you paste that? 19:03 <+perlDreamer> Yes, from last night's smoke test run 19:03 <+perlDreamer> http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds/nightly_2007-03-09/test.log 19:03 <@rizen> it's supposed to be weather::com::simple 19:04 <@rizen> someone changed it 19:05 <@rizen> going to svn 19:05 <@rizen> to get evidence to hang someone 19:05 <+perlDreamer> that's me 19:05 * SDuensin loves "blame". 19:05 <+perlDreamer> I'll save you the trip 19:06 <@rizen> why? 19:06 <@rizen> why do you ruin all my beautiful plans? 19:06 <+perlDreamer> I'm addicted to abuse and rejection. 19:07 <@rizen> are you changing it back? 19:07 <+perlDreamer> Yes, right after I make sure I have the right module installed on my end 19:07 <@rizen> and for the love of all that is pure and good...why would you have changed the name? 19:08 <+perlDreamer> I installed the wrong weather module 19:08 <@rizen> you hate me? 19:08 <@rizen> is that it? 19:08 <@rizen> you want each release we put out to be worse than the last? 19:09 <@rizen> is my guilt trip working? 19:09 * perlDreamer goes to iron his hands 19:11 <@rizen> i say off with his head 19:11 <@rizen> who's with me? 19:11 * rizen hears crickets 19:12 <@rizen> ok...then i say, live and be free 19:12 <@rizen> who's with me? 19:12 * rizen still hearing crickets 19:12 <@rizen> apparently no one cares whether you live or die pd 19:13 * perlDreamer is used to getting death threats 19:13 * perlDreamer is most aggrieved 19:14 <@rizen> what's funny is i just don't expect you to make mistakes like that 19:14 <@rizen> you seem to be more careful than everyone (including me) 19:14 <@rizen> oh well...no biggie 19:14 <@rizen> good thing i didn't release yesterday though 19:15 <+perlDreamer> Yes it is 19:15 <@rizen> and good thing for smoke tests 19:15 <@rizen> ok...must go get ears lowered now 19:53 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-3.adsl.indra.com] has joined #webgui 19:54 < cap10morgan> If Spectre doesn't run for awhile, will committed version tags get lost? 19:54 < cap10morgan> i have a site where there's lots of locked assets because spectre wasn't running, but now that it is, it doesn't seem to be unlocking them and committing their changes... 20:13 < cap10morgan> nm, it was just backed up. working fine after all. :) 20:27 <@rizen> yeah, spectre won't lose anything 20:27 <@rizen> all data is persisted to the database until spectre has verified it's completion 20:28 <@rizen> so unless you have a corrupt file system 20:28 <@rizen> or you muck around in the db 20:28 <@rizen> you'll never lose anything 20:30 <+perlDreamer> rizen: do the smoke tests log coverage some place? 20:31 <@rizen> it's supposed to, but doesn't appear to be doing that 20:31 <+perlDreamer> okay, I'll double check the coverage of the tests as I fix them 20:32 <@rizen> i can either fix bugs, or look into that though, so i think i'll keep fixing bugs 20:37 <@rizen> how come you never hear anyone call someone "sweet tits" anymore 20:37 <@rizen> i think it should make a comeback 20:39 <+perlDreamer> must me a mid-west thing 20:40 <@rizen> i think it's just an old 80s movie thing, where there's a bar scene 20:40 <@rizen> i've never actually heard a real person utter it 21:04 < cap10morgan> my roommate calls me that all the time 21:04 < cap10morgan> :) 21:08 <@rizen> are you serious? 21:10 <+crythias> hee 21:15 < cap10morgan> yep, he uses it pretty often 21:15 < cap10morgan> especially in situations where the person is clearly not a "sweet tits" 21:16 < cap10morgan> such as yours truly 21:20 <+perlDreamer> is wG safe from the Time Zone changes happening on Sunday? 21:26 <@rizen> first of all..tz changes are no big deal 21:26 <@rizen> for webgui 21:26 <@rizen> so even if the tz was screwed up 21:27 <@rizen> it's not going to cause millions in damage or anything 21:27 <@rizen> however, you should update your tz file 21:27 <@rizen> DateTime::TimeZone 21:43 <+perlDreamer> should we put a note out there for other users to do the same? 21:49 <@rizen> i'll do an advisory 22:01 <+perlDreamer> You're a good man, Charlie Brown 22:01 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-3.adsl.indra.com] has quit [] 22:03 <+perlDreamer> There's only 1 test left to fix 22:03 <+perlDreamer> Session/Http.t 22:03 <+perlDreamer> should be back to clean running soon 22:08 * perlDreamer goes running, be back later 23:06 <@rizen> so we got an applicant named martin 23:06 <@rizen> do we need to throw it out just so we don't conflict with MrHairgrease? 23:27 <+perlDreamer> he must admit that he is not eurotrash and abstain from pomade of any fair 23:27 <+perlDreamer> if he should claim to be eurotrash in name or deed, then take him to the gate of the city, lay hands on him and stone him until death. 23:27 <+perlDreamer> with stones 23:29 <@rizen> consider it done 23:30 <+perlDreamer> oh, and no eating blood or strangled animals, either 23:30 * perlDreamer just got done reading Deuteronomy 23:41 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@15.sub-75-205-235.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"] --- Day changed Sat Mar 10 2007 00:11 -!- dwalisser [n=dwalisse@74-129-192-43.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #webgui 00:12 < dwalisser> in the macro list of the webgui config is there a way that I can specify the arguments to the macro, or is this just an alias of the macro name? 00:13 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-3.adsl.indra.com] has joined #webgui 00:13 <+perlDreamer> It's just an alias to the name 00:13 < dwalisser> ok thanx 00:14 <+perlDreamer> although, it would be slick if you could define meta-macros with preconfigured arguments 00:14 <+perlDreamer> Kind of like prototypes of Assets 00:14 < dwalisser> yeah, I have SQL macros that get reused everywhere and are pretty ugly to look at 00:14 <+perlDreamer> have you tried to use a snippet to wrap them? 00:16 < dwalisser> no... what macro would I use to call in the snippet? 00:16 <+perlDreamer> ^AssetProxy(/url/to/snippet); 00:17 < dwalisser> I like that, thanx 00:35 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-3.adsl.indra.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:39 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-3.adsl.indra.com] has joined #webgui 01:12 -!- dwalisser [n=dwalisse@74-129-192-43.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:37 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"] 01:39 -!- cap10morgan_ [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-1.adsl.indra.com] has joined #webgui 01:43 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-3.adsl.indra.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:01 -!- snapcount_ [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 02:01 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:03 -!- cap10morgan_ [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-1.adsl.indra.com] has quit [] 02:04 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-1.adsl.indra.com] has joined #webgui 02:48 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-1.adsl.indra.com] has quit [] 03:33 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has left #webgui [] 03:42 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI 05:43 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has joined #webgui 06:50 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui 06:50 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 06:50 <+perlDreamer> rizen: I fixed the last failing session test 06:50 <+perlDreamer> Tomorrow's run should be clean again 06:51 <+perlDreamer> You are officially cleared to release 06:51 <@rizen> no release 06:51 <@rizen> not ever 06:52 <+perlDreamer> You're right. We'll just stay at 7.3.11 06:52 <@rizen> why not, really 06:52 <+perlDreamer> It's for the best, otherwise the second release would be unlucky 06:52 <@rizen> agreed 06:52 <+perlDreamer> Do you think anyone would notice if we didn't release a .13? 06:53 <@rizen> not only that...but we seem to break more than we fix each time 06:53 <+perlDreamer> That's just me. I'll take a break and just write tests for a while. 06:53 <@rizen> hehe...no way 06:53 <@rizen> we need these damn bugs fixed 06:53 <+perlDreamer> which ones? 06:53 <@rizen> all of them 06:54 <@rizen> i'm going to continue all next week on it 06:54 <@rizen> methinks 06:54 <@rizen> unless i get sucked into some client thing 06:54 <+perlDreamer> what about the WRE? 06:54 <@rizen> on hold 06:54 <@rizen> until we get 7.3 done 06:54 <@rizen> it's pissing me off 06:55 <@rizen> actually it's not 7.3 that's pissing me off 06:55 <@rizen> but rather that it seems we can't clean off the damn bug board 06:55 <@rizen> man that gets my goat 06:55 <+perlDreamer> I have mixed feeling about that. 06:55 <+perlDreamer> I'm tired of fixing bugs 06:55 <+perlDreamer> but the more we fix now is less we fix later 06:55 <@rizen> on that you're right 06:55 <@rizen> but i just don't want there to be anymore bugs 06:55 <@rizen> how can there be this many 06:56 <@rizen> is it that i write such shitty code 06:56 <@rizen> is it that there are more users doing more things so they just find more bugs 06:56 <+perlDreamer> That's it exactly. Plus we keep pumping more new features into wG. 06:56 <@rizen> is it that the code base is so huge and complex that there has to be thousands of bugs 06:56 <+perlDreamer> that, too 06:56 <@rizen> no we don't...we haven't added any new features in 3 months 06:56 <+perlDreamer> The Calendar 06:57 <@rizen> yet the bugs are coming in as fast as they ever had 06:57 <@rizen> the calendar was released back in december 06:57 <@rizen> 3 months 06:57 <@rizen> that's what i'm saying...we've been fixing bugs on 7.3 for 3 months 06:57 <@rizen> and the speed at which bugs are coming in is not slowing 06:58 <+perlDreamer> it is slowing a little. I've actually been handling most of them. 06:58 <+perlDreamer> That's something. 06:58 <@rizen> ok but this week i killed a dozen...and so did you 06:58 <@rizen> but at the end of the week, the bug list is the same length...approx 40 bugs 06:59 <+perlDreamer> I don't think the newest 2 are really bugs. 06:59 <@rizen> let me look 07:00 <@rizen> crap...can't simply say no to them without verification 07:01 <@rizen> i was hoping for some easy kills 07:01 <+perlDreamer> I'll take the Open in New Page 07:02 <@rizen> i'm going to bed...and you should too. we'll take it up next week 07:02 <@rizen> this weekend i won't be bug fixing because i have 6 new servers to build 07:02 <@rizen> if you don't rest you'll burn out man 07:02 <@rizen> and i need you 07:02 <@rizen> seeing you here gives me strength 07:03 <+perlDreamer> I'll be careful. 07:03 <+perlDreamer> I'm building a server myself this weekend 07:03 <@rizen> oh yeah? new client? 07:05 <@rizen> ok...well, off to bed for me. 07:05 <@rizen> have a good weekend 07:06 <+perlDreamer> good night, JT 07:23 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:59 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has left #webgui [] 09:46 -!- Hinrik_ [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 10:04 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:01 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 14:01 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ 14:09 -!- snapcount_ [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 19:39 -!- Hinrik_ is now known as Hinrik --- Day changed Sun Mar 11 2007 01:31 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [] 04:31 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has joined #webgui 04:32 < cap10morgan> Anyone know of any existing efforts to integrate a CRM w/ WebGUI? 05:10 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] 05:47 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:34 < Radix_> cap10morgan, rizen has mentioned that others have shown interest in it. He also said that PB has done custom work to integrate with SalesForce and the like 06:35 < Radix_> it would take a lot of work to add a whole CRM infrastructure into webgui tho, and no one company is willing to pay for that work 06:35 < cap10morgan> Radix_: ok 06:35 < cap10morgan> there's a possibility that this summer I and several others will be working to make CiviCRM work w/ WebGUI 06:36 < cap10morgan> so that's obviously more political advocacy focused, as opposed to business... 06:36 < cap10morgan> but we political advocacy :) 06:36 < cap10morgan> er, we do 06:37 < cap10morgan> it will all be open source 08:07 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 08:08 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ 10:36 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has quit ["Windows doesn't have users, it has hostages."] 14:40 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has joined #webgui 15:10 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 16:35 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:54 -!- gooeybot [n=gooeybot@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:43 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI 18:56 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 18:56 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ 21:14 -!- preaction_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 21:30 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:39 -!- preaction_ is now known as preaction 21:39 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ --- Day changed Mon Mar 12 2007 02:05 -!- diakopter [n=diakopte@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has joined #webgui 02:12 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:12 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 02:12 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ 02:27 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui 02:48 -!- diakopter [n=diakopte@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has left #webgui [] 05:40 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:50 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:55 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui 14:30 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has quit ["Windows doesn't have users, it has hostages."] 15:34 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 15:34 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ 16:15 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has joined #webgui 17:15 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has joined #webgui 17:15 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 17:17 <+perlDreamer> rizen: just want to give you a heads up that I patched AssetVersioning->getRevisions to return revisions in revisionDate order 17:17 <@rizen> cool..did you close the RFE then? 17:18 <+perlDreamer> oh, no. I completely forgot about that. That query is stand alone. 17:18 <+perlDreamer> I noticed that in the Wiki that revisions were not in order 17:19 <+perlDreamer> and traced it back to getRevisions in AssetVersioning 17:19 <+perlDreamer> I'll send an email back to $home to remind me to finally do that tonight 18:08 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"] 18:44 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui 18:44 -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ 19:25 <+perlDreamer> rizen, we need to get erik.svanberg in here hacking with us 19:25 <+perlDreamer> That guy is good 19:25 <@rizen> not likely 19:26 <+perlDreamer> he's really busy? 19:26 <@rizen> though he is very good 19:26 <@rizen> he's the CIO of Volvo New Tech 19:26 <@rizen> very busy guy 19:27 <+perlDreamer> his new bug about rolling versions back. Should the rollback URL be hidden from non-Admins? 19:27 <@rizen> check the code...but i think rollback is allowed provided you are a member of the group that can use the tag 19:29 <+perlDreamer> ok........www_rollbackVersionTag is limited to Admin 19:30 <@rizen> ok then, yes it should be hidden 19:32 <+crythias> How hard would it be to make the rollback a bring forward as new tag? 19:33 <@rizen> i'm afraid i don't know what you mean? 19:33 <@rizen> are you looking for an "undo commit" 19:33 <@rizen> sort of thing 19:33 <@rizen> where instead of deleting the content 19:33 <+crythias> not really. I thought that was what rollback was 19:33 <@rizen> it makes it as if the tag was never committed 19:33 <@rizen> rollback deletes all content in tag 19:33 <@rizen> makes it as if tag never existed 19:34 <+crythias> I was actually considering it as never deleting the tag. 19:35 <+crythias> that is, a non-destructive rollback in the sense that time never goes backward. 19:35 <@rizen> what is "it" in your above sentence 19:35 <@rizen> the current rollback or the new thing you're talking about 19:35 <+crythias> the new thing I'm talking about 19:35 <+perlDreamer> I think he's saying that rollback would make the most recent committed tag uncommitted, and only do that. 19:36 <+crythias> no 19:36 <@rizen> try starting from scratch 19:36 <+crythias> I'm saying, if you have a tag that you would roll back to, as normal, it doesn't do anything more than set the stuff in place that the tag you're going to roll back to is now. 19:36 <+crythias> sorry 19:37 <+crythias> let me try again 19:37 <@rizen> don't use the word rollback 19:37 <@rizen> because i think you're using it inapproriately 19:37 <+crythias> committed tags: a,b,c, d 19:37 <@rizen> k 19:37 <+crythias> current rollback to b: a, b 19:37 <@rizen> stop 19:37 <@rizen> don't use rollback 19:37 <@rizen> you're using it wrong 19:37 <@rizen> describe what you mean by rollback without using the word roll back 19:38 <+crythias> revert to b? 19:38 <+crythias> whatever the "go back to version b" is as implemented currently. 19:38 <@rizen> pd: mental note...we need to remove all references to rollback in the system 19:38 <@rizen> so you want to delete tags c and d? 19:39 <+crythias> no 19:39 <+crythias> I want it to be: a,b,c,d,b 19:39 <@rizen> so you want tag "b" to become the most recent tag...thusly changing the revision dates of everything in tag b 19:39 <@rizen> or actually 19:39 <+crythias> a "new" tag with the setup of b 19:39 <@rizen> you want to create tag "e" that is identical to tag "b" 19:39 <+crythias> yeah 19:39 <@rizen> but with new dates 19:39 <+crythias> yes 19:40 <+perlDreamer> Synchronicity calls that skipping 19:40 <@rizen> i think that could be done...but i don't know when it would be useful 19:40 <+crythias> my thought is that all versions are simply versions.. 19:40 <@rizen> could you explain when it would be useful? 19:40 <+crythias> if you want to go to b, you can go to b, but you can still go to d after b 19:41 <+crythias> after (new) b 19:41 <@rizen> cry, i get that...what i'm asking is why would you ever want to do that 19:42 <@rizen> you start with "if you want" 19:42 <@rizen> i want to to know why "if you want" would ever be true 19:42 <@rizen> under what circumstances would adding a new rev to an entire tag without making changes to it 19:42 <+crythias> I'm at point j, and I just realized that there was a really neat feature "I forgot" at point b... I'd like to recreate it... 19:42 <@rizen> be advantageous 19:43 <@rizen> yeah, but you're also creating new revs of all the other shit...not just that one asset 19:43 <@rizen> everything in the tag 19:43 <@rizen> why not just create a new rev of that one asset as in the rev switching abilities of the edit screen on assets? 19:43 <@rizen> i see why it would be advantagous for a single asset 19:44 <@rizen> i don't see why on a whole tag 19:44 <+crythias> fair enough. 19:44 <+crythias> the only other "reason" would be a silly one. "This is what it looked like before..." "This is what it looks like now" 19:49 <+crythias> hello? 19:57 <@rizen> sorry...on phone 19:57 <+crythias> ok. np 19:57 <@rizen> anyway..like i said..i think this is a valid feature for individual assets, but not for version tags 19:58 <@rizen> and you can already do it for individual assets 21:54 -!- crythia1 [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui 21:55 -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythia1] by ChanServ 22:10 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has quit [Read error: 111 (Connection refused)] 23:16 <@rizen> an article about maxscience: http://developers.slashdot.org/developers/07/03/12/1449201.shtml 23:18 < xdanger> yey! my ibooks hard drive broke... 23:18 <+perlDreamer> that's good because now you get a new laptop? 23:19 < xdanger> have to wait until april... 23:19 < xdanger> the the warrenty runs out =) 23:20 < xdanger> that's good because now my data, ssh keys, emails are there... now clients have to wait and I have to chill =P 23:20 < xdanger> only problem that there is a deadline on one of the jobs today 23:32 -!- crythia1 [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has left #webgui [] 23:42 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui 23:42 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ 23:44 <@rizen> DAMN IT 23:44 <@rizen> i'm screwing up dealing with poisonous people 23:44 <+MrHairgrease> ha 23:44 <+MrHairgrease> guess what i'm watching right now 23:44 <@rizen> i'm supposed to ignore them 23:44 <@rizen> i have such a hard time doing that 23:45 <@preaction> even when they're spreading blatant falsehoods, though? 23:45 <@rizen> that's what this video is saying 23:46 <@rizen> oh....they're getting to lies right now 23:46 <@rizen> nevermind...they aren't 23:46 <@preaction> i'm 13 minutes in so far 23:46 <+MrHairgrease> i'm at 8.15 23:46 <@rizen> 40 min in 23:50 <@rizen> crap... at 42:30 they ask me to be nice 23:50 <@rizen> to trolls 23:50 <@preaction> yes :p 23:50 <@rizen> i don't know if ic an do that 23:50 <@preaction> how's our bus-factor doing? 23:51 <@rizen> i think we're doing fine --- Day changed Tue Mar 13 2007 00:04 <+perlDreamer> you can do it 00:05 <+perlDreamer> If I can do it, you can do it 00:05 <@preaction> they also mention that sometimes it's good to have a variety of responses, the good cop bad cop thing 00:05 * perlDreamer can't watch videos at work 00:06 <+perlDreamer> I wonder if that works in reverse 00:06 <+perlDreamer> You have some jerk come in and spout a bunch o' crud 00:06 <+perlDreamer> Then you come back in later and ask your real requests nicely 00:07 <+MrHairgrease> preaction: so they say, but where do the henchmen come in? 00:18 -!- TheSeparator [i=Seppie@cp43027-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has joined #webgui 00:26 -!- TheSeparator [i=Seppie@cp43027-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has quit [] 00:33 <+perlDreamer> rizen: you up for a little bug triage? 00:33 <@rizen> can't right now 00:34 <+perlDreamer> okay 00:35 <@rizen> sorry..today got totally hosed 00:35 <+perlDreamer> not a problem 00:36 <+perlDreamer> I'll catch you tomorrow or something 00:40 < Radix_> good cop/bad cop - so rizen is always the bad cop, and preaction/perlDreamer is the good cop? :) 00:41 < Radix_> haven't you guys been doing that already? :) 00:42 <+perlDreamer> screw you! 00:42 <+perlDreamer> wait, wrong role 00:42 <+perlDreamer> Hey, radix_, how you doing today? 00:42 < Radix_> I'm awake, and about to cycle into work :) 01:05 <@rizen> pd, i have about 20 minutes or so right now 01:05 <@rizen> can we do it in that amount of time? 01:11 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] 01:17 <+perlDreamer> sure 01:17 <+perlDreamer> I'm trying to sort out bugs from user errors from RFEs 01:17 <+perlDreamer> take the CS open in new windows bug 01:17 <+perlDreamer> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/in-default-uss-open-in-new-windows-not-working#PXz6juGS1SJexuK7o8Xnqw 01:18 <+perlDreamer> I think this is an RFE, and we should remove the newWindow.label thing from the CS 01:18 <@rizen> there is a template for that...and if that template isn't working 01:18 <@rizen> then it should work 01:18 <@rizen> and therefore is a bug 01:18 <+perlDreamer> Okay, I'll find the template 01:18 <+perlDreamer> How about the duplicate metadata one? 01:18 <@rizen> ask the user what the templates are that they are using 01:18 <@rizen> and then close it 01:18 <@rizen> see if they respond 01:19 <+perlDreamer> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/duplicate-metadata#XfA5Zv3ZFHR1kv2nY-l33Q 01:19 <@rizen> yeah i'm reading it..you've replied 01:19 <@rizen> close it 01:20 <@rizen> when you reply, close the bug and when they reply it will reopen 01:20 <+perlDreamer> so we go open/close/open/close. All right 01:20 <@rizen> if they are unable or unwilling to answer your questions then its not something we can fix 01:20 <+perlDreamer> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/calendar-wrong-search-results#A8l-9rHsFQuhmhaQJTZlpg 01:20 <+perlDreamer> kristi's wrong search results bug 01:20 <+perlDreamer> search looks in the url 01:21 <+perlDreamer> but then there's knowmad's phrase question 01:21 <+perlDreamer> close and have him post a separate bug? 01:21 <@rizen> yes...he needs to learn to stop hijacking other people's bugs 01:21 <@rizen> he always says "along similar..." 01:22 <@rizen> and i always say...similar is not the same 01:22 <@rizen> open your own bug 01:22 <@rizen> with the implied "you fucking bastard" =) 01:22 <+perlDreamer> okay, this next one is a heads up because I haven't filed it yet 01:22 <+perlDreamer> I'm getting caching problems as Admin 01:22 <@rizen> what kind of caching problems? 01:22 <+perlDreamer> Go to a page as Visitor 01:22 <+perlDreamer> Go to a 2nd page 01:23 <+perlDreamer> Become Admin on that 2nd page 01:23 <+perlDreamer> go back to page 1 01:23 <+perlDreamer> you see the page as Visitor, not as Admin 01:23 <@rizen> pd, sometimes you seem oblivious to conversations that we have 01:23 <@rizen> that is this: http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/stale-pages-after-user-login#mvwxHpNT-lzAQtzpoTmUfg 01:23 <@rizen> which is what i've been saying for the past week and a half 01:24 <@rizen> when i say i'm working on caching 01:24 <@rizen> and it's pissing me off 01:24 <+perlDreamer> ah, I thought with the work you did last week you were done 01:24 <+perlDreamer> my bad 01:25 <@rizen> no...that's why i said i'm going to be working on bugs this week 01:26 <@rizen> so i can finish that 01:26 <@rizen> and work on other bugs 01:26 <@rizen> i did what i said i was going to do last week, but it doesn't work as W3 advertises it 01:26 <@rizen> because browsers don't seem to actually follow the rule 01:27 <+perlDreamer> this is gonna drive you nuts at this rate 01:27 <@rizen> what is "this" 01:28 <+perlDreamer> the caching thing 01:28 <@rizen> it's already driving me nutz 01:29 <@rizen> unfortunately i have to put it on hold because i got some new assignments that have a deadline of tomorrow 01:29 <+perlDreamer> I was going to say that your 20 minutes were up 4 minutes ago 01:29 <@rizen> yeah...i'm done 01:29 <@rizen> i actually had 30 minutes...but i know how i always go over 01:30 <@rizen> bye 01:30 <+perlDreamer> see ya, man 01:32 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"] 02:11 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui 03:17 < cap10morgan> is it possible to instantiate a session remotely via the api? i.e. use a local copy of the api to instantiate a session w/ a webgui server on a different system? 03:19 <@preaction> not quite. you can use nfs and a remote database to fake it, but it's not truly remote 03:20 < cap10morgan> preaction: ok, so there's nothing where you could say like WebGUI::Session->openRemote('ip.of.my.server','username','password'); ? 03:20 < cap10morgan> cuz that would be hella tight 03:22 <@preaction> there are protocols that could be used to develop one, XMLRPC, SOAP, to a lesser extent AJAX 03:32 < cap10morgan> hmm... that would be cool. maybe i'll take a crack at it someday... :) 03:33 < cap10morgan> on a related note (well, related in my brain), where is the api call to turn an asset into a package? 03:34 < cap10morgan> i can't seem to find it in the api docs 03:34 < cap10morgan> unless i'm being daft (wouldn't be the first or last time that's happened) 03:39 < cap10morgan> is it WebGUI::AssetPackage::exportAssetData ? 03:39 < cap10morgan> do you have to call that on an asset before you call exportPackage() ? 03:41 <@preaction> looks like exportPackage goes through and calls exportAssetData for an entire branch of the asset tree, then gives you a WebGUI::Storage object with the package inside a file in it 03:41 < cap10morgan> oh, ok 03:42 < cap10morgan> so you can call that directly w/ just an assetId as the argument? 03:43 < cap10morgan> oh wait, i'd call it as a method on an asset object 03:43 < cap10morgan> right? 03:44 < cap10morgan> yeah, that would make more sense. :) 03:45 <@rizen> to make an asset a package you just do 03:45 <@rizen> $asset->update({isPackage => 1}); 03:45 <@rizen> as far as exporting it from the api, i'd have to look, but that sounds about right 03:45 * rizen is not really hear...you didn't just read that...carry on 05:05 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui 05:05 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 05:11 < Radix-wrk> cheers pD 05:11 <+perlDreamer> hola, Radix-wrk 05:11 <+perlDreamer> how was the ride in? 05:12 < Radix-wrk> very nice.. was nice and cool - sun had only just risen really 05:12 <+perlDreamer> how far do you ride? 05:12 < Radix-wrk> not too far really.. bout 10km - then I jump on the train and take the rest of the trip that way. 05:13 < Radix-wrk> Nice bit of exercise before work - got showers at the office, so can have a quick shower once I get here. 05:14 <+perlDreamer> that's nice 05:14 <+perlDreamer> we have showers and lockers, but no place with covered, locked storage for bikes 05:15 < Radix-wrk> We use the basement here at work to store our bikes.. quite a few of us ride in and plenty of room in the basement to store them luckily. 05:15 <+perlDreamer> So where exactly do you work? Is it a big place? 05:16 < Radix-wrk> Small company in Fremantle, Western Australia. 05:16 < Radix-wrk> We write CAD/CAM software for the marine industry and sell it around the world. 05:17 < Radix-wrk> Only a dozen of us in the office, and a few more who work remotely. 05:17 <+perlDreamer> That's cool. I use CAD software for silicon ship design/simulation/layout. Slightly different scale from your software, I suspect :) 05:18 < Radix-wrk> Yeah.. ours are all using nurb surface modelling 05:18 < Radix-wrk> Fairing (smoothing) of a hull surface is rather important in shipbuilding 05:18 <+perlDreamer> low drag? 05:19 < Radix-wrk> yup 05:21 < Radix-wrk> www.formsys.com if you're interested 05:22 <+perlDreamer> nice, clean design 05:24 < Radix-wrk> All powered by Webgui of course :) 05:25 <+perlDreamer> So are you the resident webmaster/hostmaster/site designer and jack of all trades? 05:25 < Radix-wrk> We have user logins for customers, students, and our own intranet all on there - works well. 05:26 < Radix-wrk> Network Admin/Software Engineer is my official title, but yeah, jack of all trades is pretty much what I do. 05:33 < Radix-wrk> the good thing about being Jack of All Trades is that it keeps the job interesting :) The bad thing is that I have so many focuses that I'm not an expert (nor have the time to learn how to be) at any of them. 05:34 <+perlDreamer> I hear you 05:34 <+perlDreamer> I do design, CAD, system-administration and lab testing. 05:35 < Radix-wrk> Small company too huh? :) 05:37 <+perlDreamer> kind of, we're a small, remote design center for a group that is based out of Texas 05:37 <+perlDreamer> we started off completely self-sufficient, but then the company was bought out and we moved into the building for a larger division of the same company 05:38 <+perlDreamer> so we work next to lots of people with skills and talents, but due to empiricism can't use them 05:39 < Radix-wrk> hehe 05:39 -!- patspam [n=notgiven@203-214-26-249.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #webgui 05:39 < Radix-wrk> Hi patspam 05:41 < patspam> heya 05:48 <@rizen> pd (and others if interested) 05:49 <@rizen> i'm writing a failover mechanism for a client 05:49 <@rizen> that will automatically detect if their master mysql db is down 05:49 <@rizen> and make the slave become the master if that's the case 05:49 <@rizen> it will also change their webgui settings to point to the new host 05:49 <@rizen> but i'm wondering if it might be better 05:49 <@rizen> to change webgui 05:49 <@rizen> so that if the master is down 05:49 <@rizen> it reads from a second configuration option 05:50 <@rizen> to try to connect to a secondary master 05:50 <@rizen> in other words...does it make sense that this should be a built in webgui feature...or should this just remain an external script 05:50 < Radix-wrk> built in would be nicer i think 05:51 <@rizen> anybody setting this up will still have to write something to make their database fail over gracefully 05:51 <@rizen> that can't be part of webgui 05:51 <+perlDreamer> I agree, built-in. but why not use a slave instead of a secondary master? 05:51 <@rizen> but the connection management could be built in 05:52 <@rizen> because that could be dangerous..and not always intended 05:52 <+perlDreamer> slaves are typically read-only? 05:52 <@rizen> at first i thought that too 05:52 <@rizen> but then i was thinking..what if the slave doesn't always become the master 05:52 <@rizen> maybe in some situations, the slaves are updated to read from a new master 05:52 <@rizen> rather than becoming the master 05:52 <+perlDreamer> I see. So this is more general 05:52 <@rizen> yeah...just in case 05:53 <@rizen> i don't know that it will ever be used 05:53 <@rizen> but since i don't know that much about all the possible configurations of database clusters 05:53 <@rizen> i figured safe is better than sorry 05:53 <+perlDreamer> I'd agree 05:54 <@rizen> hmmm..ok..i'll see what i can do to hack this into webgui 06:02 <+perlDreamer> rizen: I know you have a deadline, but maybe we could make this kind of thing pluggable in the future. 06:02 <+perlDreamer> That way people could customize it for their individual setups 06:02 <+perlDreamer> things we could never guess about 06:03 <@rizen> how could this be made pluggable? 06:04 <@rizen> also...i would think it would degrade performance 06:04 <@rizen> because we'd have to check which module should be loaded 06:04 <@rizen> and load it 06:04 <@rizen> just to connect to the db 06:04 <@rizen> and it would be on every request, no matter how trivial the request 06:05 <+perlDreamer> hmmm 06:06 <+perlDreamer> Let's assume that all db connection code is inside of a stand-alone module. WebGUI::DB::Connection 06:06 <+perlDreamer> it handles getting masters and slaves 06:06 <+perlDreamer> The plugging is via overwriting the module 06:06 <+perlDreamer> People can do this now, but they're mucking about in Session.pm, which is dangerous 06:07 <+perlDreamer> we'd get a little safety from confining the db connection info in 1 other file 06:07 <+perlDreamer> maybe we should file this in the moderately out there category 06:07 <@rizen> so then our only overhead is the memory of the extra module, and the extra layer of object call 06:07 <+perlDreamer> yes 06:08 < xdanger> rizen: yo, have you run into a problem with the wre addsite script not working after upgrade? 06:08 <@rizen> upgrade of wre or webgui? 06:08 < xdanger> wre 06:08 < xdanger> It's complaining about JSON 06:08 <@rizen> not if i made the changes to the config files as instructed 06:09 <@rizen> did you copy the new webgui.conf.override? 06:10 < xdanger> I'm not sure =) 06:10 < xdanger> the upgrade was a month ago, and this is the first time I'm adding a site 06:10 <@rizen> the /data/wre/var/setupfiles/webgui.conf.override file needs to be copied over /data/wre/var/webgui.conf.override 06:10 <@rizen> and there were lots of other config file changes too...that the setup script would have told you about 06:12 < xdanger> yea, maybe I missed something there... 06:12 < xdanger> damn.. 06:13 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:14 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui 06:20 -!- patspam [n=notgiven@203-214-26-249.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 06:22 < xdanger> nice... now it didn't create the directories... 06:38 -!- rizen_ [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 06:38 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:41 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 06:41 -!- rizen_ [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:41 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ 06:52 <+perlDreamer> 'night guys 06:53 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:11 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @rizen, Radix-wrk, Radix_, @snapcount, @preaction, SDuensin, Hinrik, cap10morgan, nuba, pjesi (+1 more) 10:04 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:21 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui 16:13 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has left #webgui [] 17:58 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has joined #webgui 17:58 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 17:58 <+perlDreamer> morning, all 17:59 <+perlDreamer> or whatever the appropriate salutation is for your time zone 18:05 <+perlDreamer> PB people, would you consider putting some of the info on this page on the wG bug tracking system? 18:05 <+perlDreamer> http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/03/07/2012225 18:05 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:19 < xdanger> perlDreamer: Is there a hook I could tie asset in at the creation? that has assetId available... 19:20 <+perlDreamer> I'm not sure I follow you, xdanger. 19:20 <+perlDreamer> do you mean a workflow hook? 19:20 < xdanger> I would have to write that assetId to a nother table with some extra data when someone creates a new asset 19:20 <+perlDreamer> for any asset, or a new asset that you're currently designing? 19:21 < xdanger> my extented collaboration system =) 19:21 <+perlDreamer> you can always write your own creation method that calls SUPER then does other things 19:22 < xdanger> But what is executed after the creation? 19:22 <+perlDreamer> give me a sec to mock something up 19:22 < xdanger> mmk 19:24 <+perlDreamer> http://www.pastebin.ca/393545 19:24 <+perlDreamer> Basically, you don' t have to always use Asset->new. You can write your own to "special" stuff 19:25 < xdanger> O, you got me wrong... 19:25 < xdanger> I meant when user creates a asset =) 19:25 < xdanger> not creation in OO 19:26 <+perlDreamer> when the user creates an asset, it calls new 19:26 <+perlDreamer> oh, wait 19:26 <+perlDreamer> then you would want to override www_editSave instead 19:26 <+perlDreamer> and check that the incoming assetId = new 19:26 < xdanger> does that create the assetId for it? 19:27 < xdanger> 'cos I need that information 19:28 <+perlDreamer> you want to subclass addChild 19:28 <+perlDreamer> you'll find that method defined in AssetLineage.pm 19:29 < xdanger> I'll have a look 19:29 <+perlDreamer> addRevision is another good place to try to tie into 19:30 <+perlDreamer> but here's the problems with those 19:30 < xdanger> I only need it once, when the whole collaboration is created... 19:31 <+perlDreamer> and you have to write to a foreign table? 19:31 < xdanger> yeo 19:31 < xdanger> yep 19:31 <+perlDreamer> hm 19:31 < xdanger> we'll their in webgui 19:31 < xdanger> in webgui db I mean.. 19:32 <+perlDreamer> if you subclass addRevision, it will be called each time they do a revision on the asset. 19:32 <+perlDreamer> and for the addClass thing to work, you'd have to subclass it in the parent 19:32 <+perlDreamer> which won't work 19:32 < xdanger> I have to admit that this data isn't versioned =( 19:33 <+perlDreamer> well, in that case there may not be a way to tie into the wG API without lots of changes 19:33 <+perlDreamer> your "extra" data isn't versioned, but the Asset stuff is, right? 19:34 < xdanger> Maybe I just have to do a seeIfCategoryHasBeenInitialized function and call that in www_view or something =) 19:34 < xdanger> yes 19:34 < xdanger> it's 97% in line with the webguis original CS 19:35 <+perlDreamer> and it would be okay if the extra data is rewritten each time a new Asset version is introduced 19:35 < xdanger> well, no... 19:35 <+perlDreamer> even if it was the same data? 19:36 < xdanger> it's writen via DBIx::Tree::NestedSet 19:36 <+perlDreamer> how about checking for existence of the desired record before doing the write? 19:37 < xdanger> so, Id have to check if it existed... 19:37 < xdanger> yea 19:37 < xdanger> so addRevision could be answer to my problem =) 19:38 <+perlDreamer> I'm pretty sure it's the only way to easily, safely tie into the API. 19:38 <+perlDreamer> otherwise, you'll have to insert stuff into addChild in AssetLineage.pm and continue to patch it down the line. 19:41 < xdanger> Have done patching... still do =/ 21:34 -!- diakopter [n=diakopte@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has joined #webgui 21:36 < diakopter> list of files in wG SVN with "descendants" misspelled as "descendents" and that has caused lots of bugs with the new Calendar: 21:37 < diakopter> lib/WebGUI/AssetClipboard.pm 21:37 < diakopter> lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_Navigation.pm 21:37 < diakopter> lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Calendar.pm 21:37 < diakopter> docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.3.9-7.3.10.pl 21:37 < diakopter> docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.3.8-7.3.9.pl 21:38 < diakopter> docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.2.3-7.3.0.pl 21:38 < diakopter> that's it, I think. 21:39 <+perlDreamer> If no one else has done this, then I'll patch it 21:40 < diakopter> you might also want to rerun relevant portions of those upgrades for the next upgrade, if it's crucial. 21:40 <@rizen> i'm still stuck in HA hell 21:41 <+perlDreamer> diakopter, this is funny, because I tested the upgrade for 7.3.8-7.3.9 in the addThreadRating column and it did the right thing anyway 21:42 <+perlDreamer> and the calendar upgrade works in 7.2.3 21:43 < diakopter> hrm 21:45 <+perlDreamer> I'll be out in the lab for a while, but I'll check the logs when I'm back 21:51 < diakopter> perlDreamer: my guess is that getLineage(['someMisspelledTerm']) returns every asset in the asset tree that matches the other criteria. Could explain why certain upgrades take so long. 21:57 <+perlDreamer> yup 21:57 <+perlDreamer> it gets them all it looks like 21:58 <+perlDreamer> kind of a nice fallback, really 21:58 < diakopter> alright then, I retract my claim that it caused lots of bugs... it might have contributed to some bugs, I'll say. 23:04 -!- diakopter [n=diakopte@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has quit [] --- Day changed Wed Mar 14 2007 00:20 <+perlDreamer> http://blogs.sun.com/marigan/entry/how_the_vi_editor_would 00:21 <@rizen> i've decided that making mysql highly available is a giant pain in the ass 00:27 <+perlDreamer> I agree 00:27 <+perlDreamer> let's switch to PostgresQL instead 00:27 <@rizen> ooh..i just found a killer article 00:27 <@rizen> don't know why i didn't see it last night 00:27 <@rizen> http://kjalleda.googlepages.com/mysqlfailover 00:28 <+perlDreamer> are you still trying to put the failover control in wG? 00:30 <@rizen> no..haven't gotten that far 00:31 <@rizen> that will be easy 00:31 <@rizen> what i'm trying to do is make a mysql slave automatically become a master in the event that the real master fails 00:32 <@rizen> i've set up replication many times in the past..the big problem isn't setting up replication 00:32 <@rizen> it's getting mysql slaves to automatically become a master at 4am so i don't have to get my ass out of bed 00:32 <@rizen> and so that the client's site isn't down while i change the configs 00:44 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"] 01:17 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui 02:05 -!- diakopter [n=diakopte@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has joined #webgui 02:37 -!- diakopter [n=diakopte@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has quit [] 02:46 -!- diakopter [n=diakopte@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has joined #webgui 02:51 < diakopter> rizen: did you see http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2006/04/20/advanced-mysql-replication.html 02:51 < diakopter> (it only really works well/easily with 2 nodes) 03:47 -!- rizen_ [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 03:47 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:49 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui 03:49 -!- rizen_ is now known as rizen 03:49 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ 03:50 <@rizen> diakopter...thanks i'll take a read 03:50 <@rizen> i've got a solution that works for the time being, but i'm not all that happy with it 03:50 <@rizen> so perhaps this will be better 04:52 < xdanger> I'm getting "POE::Kernel::_dispatch_event[1013] - ADMIN: Couldn't fetch Spectre configuration data for webgui.server.fi" in the webgui logs 04:52 < xdanger> but it should be fine... 05:21 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui 05:21 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 05:23 <+perlDreamer> preaction: got time for some calendar chat? 05:23 <@preaction> surely 05:23 <+perlDreamer> The event day iteration code needs to be completely rewritten and I'd love your thoughts about it 05:24 <@preaction> day iteration? like the recurrence thing? 05:24 <+perlDreamer> right now, the week view, for example, uses day of week and iterates over that. 05:24 <@preaction> oh 05:24 <+perlDreamer> startDate->dow to endDate->dow 05:24 <+perlDreamer> but if the event starts on Saturday and ends on Sunday, the loop won't run 05:24 <+perlDreamer> so you don't get any days 05:24 <+perlDreamer> so then I thought day of month 05:25 <+perlDreamer> but if you bridge a month you'd get the same problem 05:25 <+perlDreamer> (bridge = day 31 to day 1) 05:25 <@preaction> how about iterate over Rata Die? 05:25 <@preaction> compare to the $dtStart rata die to figure out where it should go in the template loop 05:25 <+perlDreamer> Rata die? 05:26 <@preaction> look in Perldoc DateTime, it's basically the number of days since some day in the past 05:26 <@preaction> like 1950 or something 05:26 <@preaction> basically it would never "roll over" 05:26 <+perlDreamer> that would work 05:27 -!- diakopter [n=diakopte@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has left #webgui [] 05:29 <@preaction> possible pitfall: what if the endDate->dow is past the end of the week? you might have to check and break out the loop. but you know that 05:29 <+perlDreamer> it needs additional logic to check for inclusion in the current week/month/day 05:32 <@rizen> When I was a kid my mother said "Eat your vegetables, think of the starving Chinese." Well I ate my vegetables, and now the Chinese are a superpower! ~ Stephen Colbert 05:32 <+perlDreamer> that saying has been much misunderstood 05:33 <+perlDreamer> You're supposed to eat your veggies so you can handle the up an coming superpower. 05:35 <@rizen> pd: i finally finished the cluster 05:35 <@rizen> so happy 05:35 <@rizen> only took me WAY TOO F***ING LONG 05:38 <+perlDreamer> cool! 05:38 <+perlDreamer> and you lived through it 05:39 <@rizen> it's not perfect, but it turns out i'll need to let mysql 5.1 come out and get stable in order to make it perfect 05:39 <@rizen> but it will work 05:40 <@rizen> oh..that reminds me...i better commit my failover stuff 05:40 <@preaction> IE's "Warning Page Has Expired" is a warning message about a POST request, correct? 05:40 <@rizen> yes 05:40 <@preaction> when clicking the Back button, to avoid resubmitting the post 05:42 <+perlDreamer> preaction: would the other DateTime modules be of any use in this? 05:42 <+perlDreamer> DateTime::Set 05:42 <+perlDreamer> DateTime::Event 05:42 <+perlDreamer> DateTime::Event::Recurrence 05:43 <@preaction> that last one would probably be of use during that horrible algorithm i wrote to make recurring events 05:43 <@preaction> i think there's a specific one for iCal even 05:43 <@preaction> would probably also work in that iCal parser in the workflow activity to update feeds 05:44 -!- diakopter [n=diakopte@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has joined #webgui 06:08 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has quit [] 06:08 <+perlDreamer> preaction: basically we're trying to reimplement DateTime::Set with the display code 06:08 <+perlDreamer> we want to make two sets and calculate their intersection 06:08 <+perlDreamer> set 1 is the viewable window 06:08 <+perlDreamer> set 2 is the event window 06:09 <+perlDreamer> then we need to recurse over the recurrence of days of the event 06:15 <@preaction> so basically thus: you get the events from getEventsIn(). then loop over the days of the event and add them if they intersect the DateTime::Set of the viewable window 06:15 <+perlDreamer> DateTime::Set will do that for us, I think 06:16 <@preaction> do what part for us? 06:16 <@preaction> does the event have a new method? getDateTimeSet($period) 06:17 <+perlDreamer> If we make 1 set that is events, and a second set that is viewable window, then DateTime::Set will calculate the intersection for us 06:17 <@preaction> so we loop over the intersection and add the appropriate vars to the template based on it 06:18 <@rizen> ooh...nice find pd 06:18 <@preaction> would probably be a lot cleaner 06:18 <@rizen> DateTime::Set is very cool 06:18 <+perlDreamer> I worry that coolness comes with a price 06:18 <@preaction> if we're adding that to the required modules for webgui, can we also add the appropriate DateTime modules for iCal? 06:19 <@rizen> i don't see why not 06:19 <@rizen> if it makes webgui better 06:19 <@rizen> then it should be done 06:20 <@rizen> i had to require a new pm to deal with the weather problem 06:20 <@rizen> if this will make webgui code cleaner, performance better, or fix bugs...then i think it should be done 06:20 <@preaction> it'll remove the point of failure from the event and put it in DateTime. also rewriting the CalendarUpdateFeeds to use it would probably get rid of a couple bugs 06:21 <@preaction> but honestly we should be using a real iCalendar parser, like Text::vCard (i think was the best I saw) 06:21 <@preaction> but i do like my little homebrew one 06:21 <@rizen> why did you homebrew one in the first place? 06:22 <+perlDreamer> what if it fixes bugs and makes the code cleaner but slows us down? 06:22 <@rizen> by how much pd? 06:22 <@preaction> it was 10:00pm the night before the deadline. i couldn't do anything else. 06:22 <@rizen> this is complex shit 06:22 <+perlDreamer> I don't know, I'm just worrying at this point 06:24 <@rizen> if we're talking large orders of magnitude then that's a problem 06:24 <@rizen> but if we wrote our own shit to do these complex calculations 06:24 <@rizen> we're likely going to keep having bugs forever 06:24 <@rizen> so if it's not a huge slowdown..then i think it's worth it 06:24 <@rizen> preaction...are we having problems with iCal? 06:24 <@rizen> if not, then leave it how it is for now 06:25 <@rizen> don't replace it just to replace it 06:25 <@rizen> have a reason for everything you do 06:25 <@rizen> prioritize 06:25 <@rizen> bugs come first 06:25 <+perlDreamer> there's a bug for that one on the boards 06:25 <+perlDreamer> from grnoc 06:25 <@preaction> i believe there's one problem with iCal, and i responded but I don't know if they got back to us with the raw iCal info that was bad 06:26 <@preaction> the main thing i'd like to replace is the recurrence generator in the Event asset, there are bugs in it. I'd like to use the DateTime::Recurrence::iCal in its place (which, of course, I currently do not have time to implement) 06:26 <@preaction> there are more than one bug open for the recurrence generator thingy 06:27 <@preaction> and i think it'd be best to store the recurrence pattern in the database as the iCalendar specification formats it (so that it's compliant with the standard) 06:28 <@preaction> instead of the hackery i dreamed up (a string parsed with a regular expression... wtf... it was better than the alternatives i guess) 06:29 <@rizen> pd: tomorrow morning i'll be back on the cache bug, and tomorrow afternoon i have to do a launch for a client 06:29 <@rizen> but then thursday and friday i should have all day to bug fix again 06:29 <+perlDreamer> I'll keep reading about DateTime modules 06:29 <+perlDreamer> and maybe leave some comments about ideas for implementation 06:29 <@rizen> do you want to take the calendar stuff, and i'll take everything else 06:30 <@rizen> or how do you want to work it? 06:30 <@rizen> or just one bug at a time 06:30 <@rizen> =) 06:30 <@rizen> actually, that's probably best 06:30 <+perlDreamer> With this new chip, I don't have the time to do big work 06:30 <@rizen> ok..then i'll just take all bugs 06:31 <+perlDreamer> I'll continue to run interference on the little stuff if you want 06:31 <@rizen> i'm all for you doing whatever you can 06:32 <@rizen> hopefully i can cut through the bug list somewhat with the last two days of the week 06:34 <+perlDreamer> most of the stuff left is medium to really hard stuff 06:34 <@rizen> you've already done an amazing job clearing out the small and medium stuff then 06:35 <@rizen> i wish i could devote my full work week to this...then we wouldn't have a bug list anymore 06:35 <@rizen> growth is hell 06:36 <+perlDreamer> It's the business paradox 06:36 <@rizen> there was a time, that i would fix a new bug as it came in, and then put out a release just for that one bug fix in that same day 06:37 <+perlDreamer> wG 5 time? 06:37 <@rizen> pre 06:37 <@rizen> 0.x - about 4.x 06:37 <+perlDreamer> now you have 6 employees and DOS and Volvo for customers 06:37 <@rizen> sometime in the 4.x timeframe and into 5.x i started getting actual clients that really needed services 06:54 <@rizen> pd, you were a full time dev? 06:54 <+perlDreamer> for 7 weeks I was 06:55 <@rizen> 7 whole weeks eh? 06:55 <+perlDreamer> yup. IRC, boards, bug fixes 06:55 <+perlDreamer> and RFEs 06:55 <+perlDreamer> 6 RFEs 06:55 <+perlDreamer> oh, and some testing 06:55 <+perlDreamer> and doc patches 06:56 <@rizen> so same thing you do here? 06:56 <@rizen> or are you talking about this 06:56 <+perlDreamer> I'm talking about this 06:56 <@rizen> just cuz you were bored? 06:56 <@rizen> =) 06:56 <+perlDreamer> No chips to work on 06:56 <+perlDreamer> No secondary support projects 06:56 <+perlDreamer> Nada 06:56 <@rizen> here's to hoping that your current chip finishes quickly and then you have time to do full time again 06:56 <@rizen> ==) 06:57 <+perlDreamer> amen 06:58 <+perlDreamer> Or the stock market could drive up our stock to $100/share 06:58 <+perlDreamer> that would help, too 06:58 <@rizen> ****ing stock market 07:00 <@rizen> preaction, when we hired you, we had you do a simple skills test, right? 07:00 <@rizen> write a program against a web service? 07:01 <@preaction> yes 07:01 <@preaction> i'd suggest another one as well: write a cogent API 07:01 <@preaction> for something 07:01 <@preaction> just stubs and docs 07:01 <@rizen> the test that i came up with for this one is much better than the one we gave you 07:01 <@preaction> sweet 07:02 <@rizen> and the results are coming back 07:02 <@preaction> may i suggest staff review? 07:02 <@rizen> it's amazing to me every time we do these things how varied the results are 07:02 <@preaction> perlbot timtoady 07:02 <@preaction> towdi 07:02 <@preaction> anyway 07:02 <@preaction> perlbot timtowdi 07:02 <@preaction> i can't speel 07:03 <+perlDreamer> you had it right the first time 07:03 <@preaction> perlbot timtowtdi 07:03 < perlbot> TIMTOWTDI: There is more than one way to do it 07:03 <@preaction> perlbot timtoady is TIMTOWTDI: There is more than one way to do it 07:03 < perlbot> added timtoady to the database 07:03 <@rizen> that's true 07:03 <@rizen> hmmm..i'm guessing it's not legal to share the results on an open pipe like this 07:04 <@rizen> i'll im you a couple URLs 07:04 <+perlDreamer> I'm going to crash out. 07:04 <@preaction> i don't see why not, as long as you don't give any names or identifying information 07:04 <+perlDreamer> You Wisonsin guys party too late 07:04 <@preaction> true dat 07:04 <@rizen> well the urls contain these guy's web sites and personal ip addresses 07:05 <@rizen> cuz i asked them to set it up on their own box 07:05 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit [""more fun tomorrow""] 07:10 <@rizen> the first one that i sent you 07:10 <@rizen> the guy used templates...but it was his own template language 07:11 <@preaction> the first one rolled his own ajax, very nice. did he say how long it took him? 07:11 <@rizen> it couldn't have taken him more than a day 07:11 <@rizen> cuz i just emailed the assignment yesterday around noon 07:12 <@preaction> indeed 07:12 <@rizen> his code is nice and clean 07:12 <@rizen> though he didn't create any packages 07:12 <@rizen> just like the test i gave you 07:12 <@rizen> i offered the data in json, xml, and perl 07:12 <@rizen> and he chose xml 07:12 <@rizen> so that's good 07:12 <@rizen> cuz it's taint safe, unlike perl 07:13 <@rizen> he also left comments in his code 07:13 <@preaction> i like the "msbs" comment 07:13 <@rizen> is that the second one? 07:13 <@preaction> well, marker to denote microsoft bull---- 07:13 <@preaction> the first one 07:14 <@rizen> hah 07:14 <@rizen> i didn't even see that 07:14 <@preaction> in function createRequest() 07:14 <@rizen> the first guy even used session management 07:14 <@preaction> browser = "real"; or "msbs" 07:14 <@rizen> via CGI::Auth 07:15 <@rizen> the second guy has some pluses, like created seperate packages, but somewhat hap hazzardly 07:15 <@rizen> used template toolkit 07:16 <@rizen> but his interface is for shit 07:16 <@rizen> and worse than that he chose to interact with the web service via perl 07:16 <@rizen> which is not taint safe 07:17 <@preaction> i'd almost have liked to see someone implement entirely with JSON / Ajax. it almost looks like the first guy could've done it 07:17 <@rizen> if you're interested here's the service: http://devtest.plainblack.com/test393984.pl 07:18 <@rizen> you could have done it, except that there was a requirement on this one 07:18 <@rizen> that you cache each transaction result 07:18 <@rizen> in the database 07:18 <@rizen> because of high traffic (or that was the fake customer's request in this case) 07:18 <@preaction> ahh 07:18 <@rizen> the reason we did that was we wanted to see how people interacted with dbi 07:19 <@rizen> the first guy doesn't know about place holder params 07:19 <@rizen> the second guy does 07:20 -!- diakopter [n=diakopte@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has quit [] 07:23 <@preaction> from just these frontends, i'd go with number 1. what you're saying about the Perl though... 07:23 <@preaction> what's the primary function of the new hire? client work, correct? 07:23 <@preaction> custom webgui apps? 07:23 <@rizen> dev 07:23 <@preaction> so just standard wG dev 07:24 <@rizen> in my mind, both of them have faults in their code 07:24 <@rizen> client and core webgui dev 07:24 <@rizen> for the time being, lots of client work to help you out 07:24 <@preaction> er.. standard plainblack dev 07:24 <@rizen> but the idea is that both of you would get to work on the core 07:25 <@rizen> so both of you should have some time not devoted to client work so that you can do core stuff 07:25 <@rizen> core stuff is usually more fun 07:25 <@preaction> it might be prudent to hire someone strong in the ajax/javascript-fu, to assist in our future development of that area 07:25 <@rizen> well the second guy doesn't have any of that 07:25 <@preaction> if, of course, their Perl is up to par 07:25 <@rizen> the first guy has some 07:25 <@rizen> there's another guy 07:26 <@rizen> who hasn't submitted yet 07:26 <@preaction> i mean, even if'n the first guy was just showing off (the git) 07:26 <@rizen> who says his ajax-fu is amazing 07:26 <@rizen> so we'll see 07:26 <@rizen> i've narrowed down the list of potential candidates to 5 07:26 <@rizen> so i still need to hear back from 3 of them on the code test 07:26 <@rizen> and then do interviews with each 07:27 <@preaction> grill them about the code? tee hee 07:27 <@rizen> oh yeah 07:27 <@rizen> that's why the skill test is done before the interview 07:27 <@preaction> see how they handle criticism from a hostile audience 07:27 <@rizen> indeed 07:27 <@rizen> i don't even remember how your code test was 07:27 <@rizen> you probably sucked ass 07:27 <@rizen> =) 07:28 <@preaction> pfft, you both told me it was the best Perl you'd ever seen, even if the interface was for crap 07:28 <@preaction> at least, i know Frank said that 07:28 <@preaction> the requirements were easy, admittedly, and i did it in about 20 lines 07:28 <@rizen> the best perl code i've ever seen has never been written 07:28 <@rizen> the requirements on this one were much tougher 07:29 <@rizen> but still something that a decent dev could turn out in an afternoon 07:30 <@preaction> might've taken me longer back then. some days i'm amazed looking back at code i wrote six months ago 07:31 <@preaction> i actually found, courtesy of the wayback machine, the first major Perl CGI application I ever built 07:31 <@rizen> i can't believe you don't write perfect stuff every time like i do 07:32 <@preaction> *cough* so we're not mentioning the bug list? 07:32 <@preaction> we have a place we go to report bugs in your code 07:32 <@rizen> the bugs on the list aren't my code 07:32 <@rizen> for example...most of the bugs are calendar related 07:32 <@preaction> svn blame ;) 07:32 <@rizen> i didn't write a single thing 07:32 <@rizen> in there 07:32 <@preaction> oh, oh no you ditn' 07:32 <@rizen> hehe 07:32 <@rizen> and any code that i did write that a bug was reported on 07:33 <@rizen> clearly the user is erroneous 07:33 <@preaction> it's a feature not a bug! 07:33 <@rizen> they just aren't using it as intended 07:33 < Radix-wrk> hehe 07:33 <@preaction> the universe is just building better idiots 07:34 <@rizen> it's impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenius 07:38 < Radix-wrk> http://www.syswear.com/view/tshirts?d=24 08:46 -!- Hinrik_ [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 08:59 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:09 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [] 09:17 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 09:23 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:23 -!- Hinrik__ [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 09:24 -!- Hinrik_ [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:46 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 10:09 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui 10:10 -!- Hinrik__ [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:30 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:38 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 14:38 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 16:16 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [] 16:32 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:34 -!- preaction_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 16:39 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI 16:42 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:45 -!- preaction_ is now known as preaction 16:45 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 16:49 -!- rjacobsen [n=rjacobse@74-129-192-43.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #webgui 16:49 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:50 < rjacobsen> quick question: is there a way to setup webgui to where only admin sees the "Display" tab when editing a page/article so no one under admin can even see that tab? 16:51 <@preaction> rjacobsen: yes. alter the ui level for the things inside the display tab 16:51 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI 16:51 <@preaction> uilevel override in the config file 16:52 < rjacobsen> thank you 16:53 < rjacobsen> is there a guide somewhere to the ui levels? my guy that has shell access doesnt seem to understand them 16:55 < SDuensin> Morning all. 16:55 < rjacobsen> like the only tab we want people under admin to be able to see is the "Properties" tab - if there is a guide somewhere on how to do this it would be greatly appreciated 17:04 <@preaction> rjacobsen: might be better to ask the forums. maybe search the wiki. (and the forums probably). i'm not sure how to do uiLevel overrides, and i'm fairly certain that in order to do all the overrides you want it's going to be a mess 17:04 <@preaction> rjacobsen: you might be better off just assigning them a very small uiLevel and see how that works out 17:04 <@preaction> 0 or 1, for example 17:04 <@preaction> if you edit the uiLevel of the Visitor user account, that will edit it for new users being created 17:05 * preaction taking the day off to regroup and refocus. 17:05 < rjacobsen> ok 17:06 < rjacobsen> soo -- like in ( #assetUiLevel = WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::WSClient => 7, 17:06 < rjacobsen> # WebGUI::Asset::RichEdit => 4 ) i would set the numbers to either 1 or 0? 17:09 -!- rjacobsen [n=rjacobse@74-129-192-43.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit ["User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby"] 17:42 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has joined #webgui 17:42 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 18:14 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:14 <@rizen> pd, just so you know the release is being built 18:14 <@rizen> don't check anything in 18:17 <+perlDreamer> you mean, anything else... 18:18 <+perlDreamer> but thanks for the heads up 18:18 <@rizen> well just be sure to move your comments from 7.3.12 to 7.3.13 18:18 <@rizen> i just found out myself 18:19 <+perlDreamer> you got it 18:19 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui 18:19 -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ 18:19 <+perlDreamer> one of these days I'll learn not to nest screen sessions 18:19 < SDuensin> You guys are release madmen. :-) 18:19 <@rizen> we are? 18:20 < SDuensin> I've updated three times and haven't even got a site built! 18:21 < SDuensin> (Then again, I'm doing like six sites in parallel, so nobody is going anywhere real fast.) 18:21 < xdanger> yey, I just updated last night... =) 18:21 <+crythias> pd: I'm just learning about transparency in Windows. it rocks. 18:21 <@rizen> but wouldn't you rather have a release early and often mentality when it comes to bug fixes 18:21 <@rizen> rather than some other software companies that do it once a quarter 18:21 <@rizen> or twice a year 18:21 <+perlDreamer> It's the OS manifesto 18:21 <+perlDreamer> release early, release often 18:22 <+crythias> crash often 18:22 <+crythias> oops. 18:22 < SDuensin> Hey, no complaints here. :-) 18:22 <@rizen> cry, that's why we're not doing 7.4 yet...to make sure we don't crash often 18:22 <@rizen> =) 18:22 * perlDreamer whacks crythias with snapcount's trout 18:22 <+perlDreamer> and it's not a good smelling, fresh trout, either 18:22 <+crythias> :) 18:23 <+perlDreamer> dude's been using that thing for months 18:26 <@rizen> i had no idea snapcount even had a trout 18:28 <+perlDreamer> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Amentalhouse.net+trout+webgui&btnG=Search 18:28 <+perlDreamer> He feeds it crickets 18:33 <+perlDreamer> The ones that chirp when no one talks in channel for a long time 18:43 < SDuensin> Ok, I had an asset with a url of "photogallery/photogallery.css". I deleted it, committed the version tag. Now I want to make another asset with that URL and WebGUI is insisting on naming it "photogallery2.css". How can I fix that? 18:44 <+perlDreamer> When you delete an asset, it goes into the trash. 18:44 <+perlDreamer> Is it still there? 18:44 <+perlDreamer> if it is, then the URL is reserved 18:44 < SDuensin> Thank you. :-) 18:44 <+perlDreamer> np 18:44 * SDuensin sits in the corner with his dunce cap. 18:44 <+perlDreamer> oh no, this is one of the hardest things about version control 18:45 <+perlDreamer> There's even a special asset manager feature to help with a more complicated version of this problem 18:45 <+perlDreamer> we may have to use it, but we'll see 18:45 < SDuensin> Now if I could just get the actual CSS to work, I'd be set. :-) 19:13 -!- rjacobsen [n=rjacobse@74-129-192-43.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #webgui 19:14 < rjacobsen> can you not use webgui macros or the sql query macro in javascript? 19:16 * SDuensin has no idea. 19:19 < pjesi> rjacobsen: you can process macros on snippets yes 19:20 < rjacobsen> ok i made an asset of a macro and then tried to call that asset into javascript via ^AssetProxy(iframeid); and it is not pulling into javascript the info 19:21 < SDuensin> WHOO! Photo gallery is working. :-) 19:23 < rjacobsen> the snippet/asset id has ^SQLExt("config","^0;","select iframe_id from config where __archived=0 and sitename=? group by iframe_id", ^Env('SERVER_NAME');); 19:23 < rjacobsen> and then i call that by putting ^AssetProxy(iframeid); 19:24 < rjacobsen> it works anywhere else in the site except when i call it in javascript 19:25 < rjacobsen> then i tried to make a variable in javascript: var iframeID = ^SQLExt("config","^0;","select iframe_id from config where __archived=0 and sitename=? group by iframe_id",^Env('SERVER_NAME'););; to see if that would work..... and no good 19:25 < rjacobsen> it seems i cant use macros in javascript 19:43 <+perlDreamer> rjacobsen: try posting that one on the boards and see if anyone else pipes up 19:44 < rjacobsen> ty 19:46 <+perlDreamer> just out of curiosity, what do you see when the page renders in the browser? 19:47 <+perlDreamer> Do you see a macro call or something else? 20:10 < rjacobsen> i have no clue how or why...... but i cut the macro out of the javascript and pasted it right back in and vwalla - it worked..... no idea what went on there 20:38 <@rizen> holy f*** shit balls 20:38 <@rizen> i just figured out the caching thing 20:41 < pjesi> elaborate 20:42 <@rizen> ok..since 7.0 there has been a problem with caching 20:42 <@rizen> in that if you browse around a webgui site for a while as visitor 20:42 <@rizen> and then log in 20:42 <@rizen> if you browse back to some of the same pages 20:42 <@rizen> it looks like you get logged out 20:42 <@rizen> because those pages are being cached by your browser 20:43 < SDuensin> So you can fix that? 20:43 <@rizen> i've finally figured out how to tell the browser that it's ok to cache those pages, but that it needs to check back with the server 20:43 <@rizen> to make sure that they haven't logged in 20:44 <@rizen> i'm 99.99999% sure i can fix it now 20:44 <@rizen> it just worked in my code test 20:44 < SDuensin> Awesome! 20:44 < rjacobsen> YAY!! i thought i was the only one havin that problem!!! everytime i would make a change it would log me out 20:44 <@rizen> now it's just a matter of making it work in webgui 21:00 -!- rjacobsen [n=rjacobse@74-129-192-43.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit ["User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby"] 22:22 -!- pjesi changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.3.12 | WRE 0.7.2 ][ New Contest Open -- Acme Code Contribution -- Win $$$ and Karma (www.plainblack.com/wcc) ][ Plainblack Needs You! Perl dev wanted: http://xrl.us/u7c5) 22:23 -!- dwalisser [n=dwalisse@74-129-192-43.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #webgui 22:23 < SDuensin> WHOO! 7.3.12! 22:24 < dwalisser> I was wondering if I could get some help with this problem, it is the same as what was posted in the upgrade help forum: https://www.plainblack.com/install/upgrade_help/upgr-7.3.8---7.3.9---no-cannot-upload-files?func=nextThread 22:24 < dwalisser> there are no replies to that problem yet 22:25 < SDuensin> Are you still on 7.3.9? 22:25 < dwalisser> 7.3.10 22:25 < dwalisser> err 7.3.11 22:26 < SDuensin> I had upload issues with 9. Went away when I went to 10. (I think it was with 9.) 22:34 < dwalisser> I have a wierd wre issue too... the group id the httpd is running under isn't nobody (as it should be?) and is something funky 22:34 < dwalisser> mind if I spam the channle with PS output? 22:35 < SDuensin> Not my channel to give permission. 22:36 < xdanger> dwalisser: use pastebin 22:36 < dwalisser> what's the url for the pastebin? 22:38 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: pastebin? 22:38 < perlbot> (see paste) 22:38 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: paste? 22:38 < perlbot> Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it. 22:38 <+perlDreamer> perlbot paste is also http://pastebin.ca 22:38 < perlbot> I already have an entry for paste 22:38 <+perlDreamer> where's gooeybot when you need him???!!!! 22:39 < xdanger> use the google, luke... 22:43 < dwalisser> http://pastebin.ca/395135 22:44 < dwalisser> as a result of this I think a lot of weird stuff is happening 22:44 < dwalisser> one example, everything under uploads/ gets the weird group put on it 22:45 < dwalisser> nice, this would appear to be the highest possible 32-bit number 22:48 <+perlDreamer> that's probably also your upload problem 22:48 <+perlDreamer> your "nobody" user cannot write to the uploads area 22:49 < dwalisser> yeah, I can do a chown to fix the problem temporarily, but it comes back sooner or later 22:51 < dwalisser> ah, its in the apache httpd.conf 22:52 < dwalisser> it says: 22:52 < dwalisser> Group #-1 22:52 < dwalisser> looks intentional to me, question is why was it setup that way 22:55 <+perlDreamer> well, it does kind of highlight the need to change it to something else 22:55 -!- wgGuest98 [i=wgGuest9@nat/ibm/x-af34b3c78a00c3d9] has joined #webgui 22:57 -!- wgGuest98 [i=wgGuest9@nat/ibm/x-af34b3c78a00c3d9] has quit [Client Quit] 23:00 < dwalisser> I think the intention was to leave the group assignment alone... the value -1 has special meaning to setgid etc functions 23:01 < dwalisser> see man setresgid 23:01 < dwalisser> well I am going to change it anyhow since it isn't working as intended 23:01 < dwalisser> theoretically it would be assigned to "root" since that is the user who starts up apache, maybe that is illegal so it uses the funky value 23:02 <+perlDreamer> -1 in an unsigned int is max integer 23:02 < dwalisser> yeah 23:03 < dwalisser> I always run rc.webgui start as root... is this wrong? 23:05 <+perlDreamer> no, that should be okay 23:07 <+perlDreamer> great hack, rizen! 23:14 <+crythias> just wanted to point out that transparency rocks. 23:14 <+crythias> I have been using it to monitor email and will be using it to monitor logs behind work ... 23:15 <+crythias> I've also used it to "copy" information from one app to another. 23:19 <+perlDreamer> in the context that you use it, it sounds like context is more than the ability to see through one window into another 23:22 <+crythias> I think I understand... 23:23 <+crythias> It's not just that "wow, you can see through an app" ... it's more "wow, I can see stuff and use that info that I see. without occupying desk space." 23:23 <+crythias> like putting irc behind the app you're working on. 23:24 <+crythias> you can follow the thread without having to alt-tab to it everytime someone posts. 23:24 <+crythias> and without limiting your workspace by occupying it with the irc app 23:26 < dwalisser> well permissions are fixed, still have the error with collaboration system 23:27 <+crythias> gtg ttfn 23:27 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:28 < dwalisser> this looks like the component (spectre?) that runs periodically the error is spit out every 60 seconds 23:29 < dwalisser> http://pastebin.ca/395207 --- Day changed Thu Mar 15 2007 00:08 -!- dwalisser [n=dwalisse@74-129-192-43.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:36 <+perlDreamer> rizen: do you want me to update the Session/Http test to pass, or should I wait a bit more until everything is tested out? 00:57 <@rizen> to test pass? 01:07 <+perlDreamer> with the new additions that were made to HTTP.pm, HTTP.t will probably start failing 01:38 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"] 02:01 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui 02:04 -!- diakopter [n=diakopte@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has joined #webgui 04:24 -!- diakopter [n=diakopte@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has quit [] 05:39 -!- Netsplit leguin.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: nuba, pjesi 05:40 -!- Netsplit over, joins: nuba 05:40 -!- Netsplit over, joins: pjesi 05:46 <@rizen> nuba? 05:46 <@rizen> nuba prinscali? 05:47 <@rizen> sorry if i misspelled that 05:56 < nuba> sorta 05:56 < nuba> nuba princigalli 05:56 <@rizen> sorry, it's been so long since i've spelled it 05:56 < nuba> yeah, its me 05:56 <@rizen> how have you been man! 05:57 < nuba> yup. its been a while, indeed 05:57 <@rizen> i haven't really talked to you since....i don't know when 05:57 <@rizen> maybe WUC 2004 05:57 <@rizen> are you still at the university? 05:57 < nuba> yeah i've been kept busy as a sysadmin these last two years 05:58 < nuba> university was on standy mode, resuming this semester 05:58 < nuba> (I hope so) :) 05:59 <@rizen> what kind of sysadmin stuff you been up to? 05:59 < nuba> we exchanged words a few times after wuc2004 in the w3 list 05:59 < nuba> not much tho 05:59 <@rizen> yeah. but nothing much 05:59 <@rizen> that list is pretty dead these days 06:00 < nuba> yeah 06:00 <@rizen> are you still doing webgui stuff these days? i see that the brazil site is still up 06:01 < nuba> and actually my w3brasil site went dead not long ago 06:01 < nuba> getting it back up soon 06:01 <@rizen> it did? then what's this: http://www.foco.fae.ufmg.br/ 06:02 < nuba> yeah thats where its hosted, a server at the university 06:02 <@rizen> i think webgui worldwide is a dead concept these days 06:02 <@rizen> i think it's my failure 06:02 <@rizen> i just don't know what i should have done to make it better 06:08 < nuba> back, had to receive pizza at the door :) 06:08 < nuba> so i think there still hope for w3 06:08 <@rizen> pizza is always good 06:09 < nuba> lets discuss that matter further 06:09 <@rizen> really? how do you think there is hope? 06:09 < nuba> but not quite right now, handling some fires at work 06:09 < nuba> also im hungry 06:09 <@rizen> ok 06:09 <@rizen> bring it up on the w3 list 06:09 <@rizen> or on irc later 06:09 <@rizen> i'm almost always on 06:09 <@rizen> have good pizza 06:09 <@rizen> ttyl 06:09 < nuba> heh txh 06:09 < nuba> l8r 06:44 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [] 08:48 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 08:48 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 09:37 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:43 -!- patspam [n=notgiven@203-214-26-249.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #webgui 09:43 < patspam> hey all 09:43 < patspam> anyone about? 09:47 -!- patspam [n=notgiven@203-214-26-249.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Client Quit] 10:10 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui 11:22 < nuba> rizen: www.webgui.com.br is back alive 11:22 < nuba> just for the record :) 11:26 < nuba> downtime of a couple of weeks, most of it cause of bureaucracy 11:27 < nuba> gotta get it hosted out of the university's net asap 11:28 < nuba> when net breaks there its back in minutes or hours 11:30 < nuba> when hardware breaks, its nightmare, paperwork, etc 13:07 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:18 -!- rjacobsen [n=rjacobse@74-129-192-43.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #webgui 15:22 < rjacobsen> please look at http://paste.biz/paste-960.html and tell me how to fix this error 15:38 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@247.sub-75-207-230.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI 16:12 -!- diakopter [n=diakopte@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has joined #webgui 16:31 <@rizen> you shouldn't "demand" answers if you want help 16:42 <@rizen> your uploads folder needs to be recursively owned by your web user 16:42 <@rizen> that has a 99% probability of being your problem 16:46 < diakopter> rizen: did you mean to leave "return $self->{_http}{cacheControl} || 1;" in Http.pm? looks like something one might use for testing. 16:52 <@rizen> yes i did 16:52 <@rizen> in most circumstances the max age for webgui should be 1 second 16:53 <@rizen> meaning, the browser should re-ask webgui everytime whether the page has changed or not 16:54 < rjacobsen> sorry i did not mean to look like i was demanding - was on the phone when i pasted that and tryin to take notes at the same time 16:54 < rjacobsen> but i appreciate the help 16:55 < diakopter> fyi: the wre-ubuntu-0.72 runs just fine on debian etch (testing, about to be stable). 18:42 -!- rjacobsen [n=rjacobse@74-129-192-43.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit ["User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby"] 19:16 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has joined #webgui 19:16 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 19:17 <+perlDreamer> rizen: ever think about partnering with Red Hat to help sell wG? 19:17 <+perlDreamer> http://news.com.com/2100-7344_3-6167370.html 19:28 <@rizen> yup...i think about it 19:33 <@rizen> it's one of those decisions that takes some investment for an undeterminable gain 19:34 <@rizen> right now i feel our resources are better spent eliminating our technical debt (fixing bugs, writing documentation, getting out a new WRE) 19:34 <@rizen> but later in the year, things like this will likely be much more valuable 19:34 <@rizen> because we've killed the largest part of our technical debt 19:37 -!- rjacobsen [n=rjacobse@74-129-192-43.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #webgui 19:38 <+perlDreamer> cool 19:38 <+perlDreamer> killing debt 19:38 <+perlDreamer> smashing bugs 19:38 <+perlDreamer> hacking code 19:38 <+perlDreamer> I feel very Stephen King 19:40 < rjacobsen> i have a question about groups and the admin console if someone could help me - i have searched the forums, and it seems there are a lot of people with the same dilemna but no real answer..... what i want to do is be able to remove stuff from the admin console for the "Turn Admin On" group without removing it from the admin console for the "Admin" group 19:40 <@rizen> you mean you want to set privileges for who can access various features in the admin console? 19:41 < rjacobsen> the users in the "turn admin on" group can click on the items in the admin console, but it just brings up "permission denied" page.... i wanna remove them so they cant even click them 19:41 <@rizen> who can access statistics, who can access 'manage users', etc 19:41 <@rizen> oh, it shouldn't do that 19:41 <@rizen> they should only see stuff they can use 19:41 <@rizen> which items? 19:41 < rjacobsen> it isnt workin in mine 19:43 < rjacobsen> all i want them to see is commit changes if it comes up, clipboard, trash, and version tags 19:43 < rjacobsen> nothing else 19:43 < rjacobsen> not even help 19:43 <@rizen> then submit an rfe 19:44 <@rizen> for a feature that would allow you to set who can access what 19:44 <@rizen> currently those things are hard coded 19:44 < rjacobsen> i see 19:44 < rjacobsen> is there a way maybe to not show the admin console at all? but still allow them to have the edit function next to stuff they are allowed to edit? 19:45 <@rizen> yup...you can submit an RFE for that =) 19:45 < rjacobsen> lol 19:45 < rjacobsen> im battin 0's here 19:46 <@rizen> you have to understand that webgui is designed to give the user power 19:46 <@rizen> not to take power away from them 19:46 < rjacobsen> i understand 19:46 < rjacobsen> its just some of the people using these sites are real idiots 19:47 < rjacobsen> they cant even change their own underware sometimes i think 19:47 <@rizen> yeah, i know 19:47 < rjacobsen> and to eliminate the grief without making them feel totally left out, i wanna simply remove the stuff they can screw up 19:47 <@rizen> that's why we created ui levels 19:48 <@rizen> but that only helps with assets 19:48 <@rizen> not with the admin console 19:48 < rjacobsen> well i set the uilevel of one of the users to 1 and it still shows all the stuff in the admin console 19:48 < rjacobsen> ya 19:48 < rjacobsen> what u said 19:49 < rjacobsen> do you think it would be a good thing to have to be able to edit what powers certain groups/users have? maybe a check list of what a group can and cannot use? 19:50 < rjacobsen> would seem like the easiest fix 19:50 <@rizen> yeah, we can create a screen where you can set which groups can use each of the admin console features 19:50 < rjacobsen> that would be awesome 19:50 <@rizen> that's why i said submit the rfe 19:50 < rjacobsen> ok where do i do that? the forum? 19:51 <@rizen> plainblack.com > support > RFE 19:51 < rjacobsen> ahh ya i just found it as u typed it 20:00 < rjacobsen> http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/admin-console-items#SlCE2hPMGObJw9Fqa35hFQ 20:00 < rjacobsen> done 20:00 < rjacobsen> thank you rizen 20:01 <+perlDreamer> After the RFE has been rated,don't forget to pump some karma into it to bring up on people's RFE radar. The battle for the 7.4 release is still open. 20:01 < rjacobsen> how do i use the karma 20:01 < rjacobsen> i have 353 it seems 20:02 < rjacobsen> lol i used all my karma on it 20:02 < rjacobsen> guess i hope it works lol 20:04 <+perlDreamer> it will work, it's just a question of how it rates against other projects in difficulty. 20:04 <+perlDreamer> see this page for karma details 20:04 <+perlDreamer> http://www.plainblack.com/wg/karma 20:04 <+perlDreamer> basically, board posts, bugs, polls, RFEs and user contribs pump up karma 20:04 < rjacobsen> in see 20:05 < rjacobsen> i put in all my karma and it still says karma rank 0.000004 20:05 <+perlDreamer> The RFE hasn't been rated yet, most likely 20:05 < rjacobsen> shouldnt that be 353.000... 20:05 <+perlDreamer> RFEs are rated according to difficulty 20:05 < rjacobsen> ahh ok 20:05 < rjacobsen> gotcha 20:06 <+perlDreamer> since this one is unrated, it's using the default (WAY TOO HARD TO EVEN DREAM ABOUT, DUDE) 20:06 < rjacobsen> lol 20:06 < rjacobsen> well i know it cant be that hard 20:06 < rjacobsen> everything is there to do it already - just need to add a page with the controls 20:06 <+perlDreamer> You should also know that adding a patch to your RFE to implement it can help get it accepted, even if it isn't at the top of the list. 22:18 < rjacobsen> is there a macro already in webgui that would return a person to the last page visited in webgui if they have left the site to another window like paypal? 22:20 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui 22:20 -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ 22:42 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@247.sub-75-207-230.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:45 -!- diakopter [n=diakopte@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has quit [] 22:49 <+perlDreamer> rjacobsen: no 22:59 < rjacobsen> ill just use http://www.^Env("SERVER_NAME");/^PageUrl; then :) thank anyhoo 22:59 < rjacobsen> thanks* 23:12 <+perlDreamer> If you can use macros, then try ^/(^PageUrl;); 23:12 < rjacobsen> will that pull the current page? 23:12 < rjacobsen> if so that is cool 23:13 <+perlDreamer> ^/ is the gateway macro. Most people have the gateway configured to be / anyway, but it's always good practice 23:13 <+perlDreamer> It will guarantee portability of solutions like this across different sites 23:14 < rjacobsen> so i should have the carrot in front of all my beginning /'s? 23:14 <@preaction> ^/; actually 23:14 < rjacobsen> like /images/file/etc 23:15 <@preaction> what does spectre error: "Error: Couldn't fetch Spectre configuration data for alumni.conf" get fixed? 23:16 <+perlDreamer> it means the spectre.conf couldn't be read? 23:16 <+perlDreamer> rjacobsen, no 23:16 <@rizen> no 23:16 <+perlDreamer> Asset URLs are safe and handled automatically 23:16 <@rizen> preaction: that means that it wasn't able to talk to webgui 23:16 <@rizen> to get the workflow/scheduler data 23:16 <@rizen> for that site 23:16 <@preaction> so that'd be a spectre.conf problem 23:16 <+perlDreamer> but anytime you call out another macro, you should use the gateway macro (^/;) 23:17 <@rizen> it's more likely a alumni.conf problem 23:17 <@rizen> spectreSubnets 23:17 <@preaction> ok, i'll try that 23:17 <@rizen> did you try running perl spectre.pl --test 23:17 <@rizen> while spectre was running 23:18 <@rizen> preaction, also make sure the site is upgraded to 7.3.12 because there was a bug in that retrieval process that could happen intermittently 23:18 <@rizen> in 7.311 23:18 < rjacobsen> wow that is gonna be a whole lotta work...... i didnt know i had to have that in front of all my macros.... i have just been putting ^PageUrl; (for example) ...and what u are saying is it should be ^/;^PageUrl; ? 23:19 <+perlDreamer> ^/(^PageUrl;); 23:19 <+perlDreamer> nested, not appended 23:19 <+perlDreamer> and again, only for pages that you'd like to copy to other sites (like packages), and places where you want to refer back to the site. 23:20 < rjacobsen> i see 23:21 < rjacobsen> and the ^/ is as good as saying http://www.mysite.com/^PageUrl; ? 23:21 < rjacobsen> i mean ^/ takes the place of the beginning url 23:21 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui 23:21 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ 23:21 < rjacobsen> it refers to the site it was called from 23:24 < rjacobsen> wow that is so cool 23:24 < rjacobsen> very nice - thank you perl 23:28 < rjacobsen> its just amazing how one little snippet of code can brighten up your whole day lol - saved me a lot of work there perl 23:28 < rjacobsen> now i just gotta hope paypal accepts it 23:29 <@rizen> AMH_mari: i'm guessing you're one of the people from Alpha Mega Hosting in Holland, is that correct? 23:30 <@rizen> i guess if i looked at your login details that would have been an obvious question 23:33 <+perlDreamer> rjacobsen, if it doesn't contain the site name, then ^H(); will 23:35 < rjacobsen> thanks so much 23:37 < rjacobsen> well for the return url in the form that gets sent to paypal i have put in ^/(^PageUrl;); .....and when i made a snippet with test it pulled up the current page i was on in a new window - so theoretically it should send paypal the page url of the page that sent the customer to the paypal site so paypal has the return url --- Day changed Fri Mar 16 2007 00:04 -!- diakopter [n=diakopte@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has joined #webgui 00:14 <@rizen> well i think we got our new guy 00:15 <+MrHairgrease> your new dev 00:15 <+MrHairgrease> ? 00:15 <@rizen> yup 00:15 <@rizen> still have second round of interviews 00:15 <@rizen> but i'm pretty sure 00:16 <+MrHairgrease> too bad he can't be highly fashionable, ueberhip and whatnot eurotrash =) 00:16 <@rizen> you know i wanted to hire you MrHairgrease 00:16 <@rizen> but we don't hire eurotrash 00:16 <+MrHairgrease> hah 00:16 <+MrHairgrease> You could never give me the benefit oqpai does 00:16 <+MrHairgrease> we have cups with our logo you know =) 00:16 <@rizen> hot naked dancing chicks? 00:16 <+MrHairgrease> for real 00:16 <@rizen> oh you're right 00:16 <+MrHairgrease> hot coffee 00:17 <@rizen> we only have hot naked dancing chicks 00:17 <@rizen> no cups 00:17 <+MrHairgrease> almost the same i'd say =) 00:17 <+MrHairgrease> too bad 00:17 <+MrHairgrease> it's not fo me then 00:17 <@rizen> we have lots of t-shirts though 00:17 <@rizen> could i lure you with a t-shirt? 00:17 <@rizen> heh 00:17 <+MrHairgrease> I already have a bunch 00:17 <@rizen> yeah i know..you keep coming to the wuc 00:17 <+MrHairgrease> Marijn sleeps in em sometimes 00:18 <@rizen> that must help get the eurotrash manstink off of them 00:18 <+MrHairgrease> now that's combining work with pleasure 00:18 <+MrHairgrease> loveodour 00:18 <@rizen> heh 00:18 <+MrHairgrease> =) 00:18 <+MrHairgrease> hey 00:18 <+MrHairgrease> is nuba back? 00:18 <@rizen> indeed 00:18 <+MrHairgrease> cool 00:18 <@rizen> talked to him last night for a minute or too 00:19 <@rizen> he sounds pretty busy though 00:19 <@rizen> but he said he has an idea or two about how to revive the W3 00:19 <@rizen> it's good to have nuba back 00:19 <@rizen> he's great 00:19 <+MrHairgrease> it is 00:19 <+MrHairgrease> he is 00:19 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI 00:20 <@rizen> SDuensin however...not so great to have him back 00:20 <@rizen> he smells like a ZKDesktop user 00:21 <@rizen> oh hi SDuensin 00:22 <@rizen> didn't see you there 00:22 <@rizen> =) 00:22 < SDuensin> Hey! 00:22 <+perlDreamer> ZKDesktop writer, too 00:23 * SDuensin just put 2000+ images on his NEW WEBGUI site. :-P 00:23 < SDuensin> ZK Desktop is work. WebGUI is fun! 00:23 <+perlDreamer> oooh 00:23 <+perlDreamer> how long did that take? 00:24 <+MrHairgrease> a while i guess 00:25 < SDuensin> Yea. Did it all yesterday evening. 00:25 < SDuensin> It's not "live" yet, but: http://new.duensing.com 00:26 <+MrHairgrease> you did it by hand? 00:26 < SDuensin> Well, using the import perl script thing. 00:26 < SDuensin> Still a lot of work. 00:26 < SDuensin> BRB - food time 00:26 <+MrHairgrease> yeah 00:26 <+MrHairgrease> image magick is pretty heavy 00:27 <+perlDreamer> and the import perl script thing worked okay? 00:27 <+MrHairgrease> I guess 00:28 <+MrHairgrease> i use myself all the time 00:28 <+perlDreamer> I did test it after I rewrote it, but it's nice to know that it scaled okay 00:28 <+MrHairgrease> it used to be real bad though 00:28 <+MrHairgrease> you rewrote it? 00:28 <+perlDreamer> yes 00:28 <+MrHairgrease> when? 00:29 <+perlDreamer> wait a minute, I'm thinking of the thumbnailer script 00:29 <@rizen> why is there not a zkdesktop asset in webgui? 00:29 <+perlDreamer> nm 00:29 <@rizen> gotta go make dinner, be back in a bit 00:29 <+perlDreamer> I actually have an idea for a ACME contest entry 00:29 <+MrHairgrease> cool 00:31 < pjesi> me2 00:32 < pjesi> but I dont have time to polish it, so I am forcing Hinrik to do the dirty work for me :P 00:35 <+perlDreamer> what evil hold do you have on him, anyway? ;) 00:44 <@rizen> what's your idea pd? 00:44 <@rizen> and pjesi? 00:45 < pjesi> perlDreamer: if you only knew ;) 00:45 < SDuensin> ZK Desktop + WebGUI = EVERY DEPENDENCY KNOWN TO MAN! :-) 00:46 <@rizen> SDuensin...i'm serious 00:46 <@rizen> i think it should be done 00:46 < pjesi> rizen: youtube/google video asset, I think I talked to you about it before 00:46 <@rizen> that would be SOOOOOOOOOO cool 00:46 <@rizen> pjesi that would be cool 00:46 < SDuensin> rizen, you're insane. 00:46 <@rizen> actually a macro would work for that 00:46 * SDuensin is doing a Flash video thing next. 00:46 <@rizen> why SD 00:47 < pjesi> SDuensin: what kind of flash video thing? 00:47 < SDuensin> It's entirely in Java. Tomcat or Jetty. Not even sure how it'd fit with WebGUI. 00:47 < diakopter> perlDreamer: what's your ACME idea, or is it a secret? 00:47 < SDuensin> pjesi - Just some integration with a little player I found so I can get the videos back on my site. 00:47 <+perlDreamer> it's a secret 00:48 <+perlDreamer> but it will revolutionize content entry into wG by eliminating the keyboard 00:48 <@rizen> SD, sorry, i thought it was a web2.0 desktop 00:48 < SDuensin> Like my image gallery. It's nothing really "new", but I integrated a bunch of parts into WebGUI. 00:48 <@rizen> i didn't realize that it had a full backend as well 00:48 < pjesi> Java all the way 00:48 < diakopter> perlDreamer: some secret :) 00:48 <+perlDreamer> gotta scoot, more hints and tidbits later 00:48 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"] 00:48 < SDuensin> rizen, it is, but it's Java. You code like there's no separation of the server and client logic. Code like a desktop app. :-) 00:48 < pjesi> I think I know his secret 00:51 < diakopter> there's all kinds of nifty JS things that could be created as ACME macros 00:52 < SDuensin> Oh yea. :-) 00:52 < SDuensin> Just write something to neatly handle Google Widgets and you instantly have 2000+ new toys to plug in to a site. 00:57 < diakopter> hmm 00:59 * SDuensin is kind of frightened that everyone in here is suddenly mentioning ZK Desktop. WTF? :-D 01:00 <+MrHairgrease> wtf? 01:00 <+MrHairgrease> isn't this #zkdesktop? 01:00 < SDuensin> :-P 02:00 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui 02:02 <+MrHairgrease> rizen 02:02 <+MrHairgrease> if i inherit from an asset that uses getEditForm 02:02 <@rizen> MrHairgrease 02:02 <@rizen> the answer is 2 02:03 <+MrHairgrease> and my extyending asset uses autoGenerateForms 02:03 <@rizen> or perhaps 42, i forget which 02:03 <+MrHairgrease> is it correct that the autogenerated form 02:03 <+MrHairgrease> is not shown? 02:03 <@rizen> that's probably true 02:04 <@rizen> methinks that y ou need to use autogenerate all the way through to the last one 02:04 <@rizen> the last one need not use auto 02:04 <@rizen> but you can't skip it in the middle 02:04 <+MrHairgrease> ic 02:04 <@rizen> which asset is that? 02:04 <+MrHairgrease> too bad then 02:04 <@rizen> perhaps we could make it use auto 02:04 <+MrHairgrease> it's for the acme comp 02:04 <@rizen> no..which one are you inheriting from 02:04 <+MrHairgrease> layout 02:05 <@rizen> let me look, maybe 7.3.13 can have it use auto 02:05 <+MrHairgrease> don't worry 02:05 < diakopter> the hidden children list might prevent that 02:05 <+MrHairgrease> i'll convert it to geteditform 02:05 <+MrHairgrease> however 02:05 <@rizen> ok 02:05 <+MrHairgrease> the other way round could be bad 02:06 <+MrHairgrease> if you have some asset using autogenerate 02:06 <+MrHairgrease> you cannot extend it with geteditform 02:06 <+MrHairgrease> I'm not sure if you can do everything within autogenerate 02:06 <+MrHairgrease> that you can do in geteditform 02:07 <@rizen> you pretty much can if you're willing to turn everything into form elements 02:07 <@rizen> which may not always be desirable 02:07 <+MrHairgrease> you can't add tabs right? 02:07 < diakopter> or make autogenerate support callbacks 02:07 <+MrHairgrease> callbacks suck 02:07 <@rizen> true, you can't add tabs 02:08 <+MrHairgrease> i think it would be possible to mix both auto and geteditform 02:08 <+MrHairgrease> but it can wait for 7.4 02:08 <@rizen> well if you can make that work that's fine too 02:08 <+MrHairgrease> it seems more 'neat' 02:08 <@rizen> i'm sure it's possible to do that...just don't know what it would take 02:08 <+MrHairgrease> i'll put it on the rfe tomorrow 02:08 <@rizen> k 02:09 <+MrHairgrease> and i'll look into itr when i've got the time 02:34 <+MrHairgrease> I must be insane 02:34 <+MrHairgrease> I can't get it to work 02:35 <@rizen> is it cuz you're lame? 02:35 <@rizen> i think i know why 02:35 <@rizen> is this the leetout? 02:35 <+MrHairgrease> fuck you rizen 02:35 <+MrHairgrease> yeah 02:35 <@rizen> it's due to content chunking 02:35 <+MrHairgrease> but it's a total rewrite 02:35 <+MrHairgrease> no 02:35 <+MrHairgrease> that i've got working 02:35 <@rizen> hmmm 02:35 <@rizen> then what's not working? 02:36 <+MrHairgrease> i can't get the form elements to show up in the form 02:36 <@rizen> weird 02:37 <@rizen> i still submit that it's due to your lameness 02:37 <+MrHairgrease> wait 02:37 <+MrHairgrease> firefox borked 02:37 <+MrHairgrease> i shut it down and restarted it 02:37 <+MrHairgrease> now it works 02:38 <+MrHairgrease> somehow ff isn't refreshing pages sometimes 02:38 <+MrHairgrease> not wg related 02:40 <+MrHairgrease> w00t 02:40 <+MrHairgrease> 1t w0rk$ 02:40 <+MrHairgrease> but 02:40 <@rizen> url 02:40 <@rizen> but? 02:41 <+MrHairgrease> now i've discovered an error in the IntSlider 02:41 <+MrHairgrease> anyway 02:41 <@rizen> yeah that thing sucks 02:41 <+MrHairgrease> I'll fix that tomorrow 02:41 <@rizen> i don't know who wrote it 02:41 <@rizen> =) 02:41 <+MrHairgrease> fur 02:41 <+MrHairgrease> !!! 02:41 <+MrHairgrease> time for bed 02:41 <@rizen> no url for me? 02:41 <+MrHairgrease> see you guys later 02:41 <@rizen> ok then 02:42 <@rizen> sleep tight 02:42 <+MrHairgrease> I'll get you one tomorrow 02:42 <+MrHairgrease> i just reset my db 02:42 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] 02:46 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:10 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:22 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 04:25 -!- diakopter [n=diakopte@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has quit [] 04:26 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:34 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:41 <@preaction> anyone else have those times where you just HOPE against HOPE that the fact that the hard drive's still spinning means that you do NOT have a major problem on your system, even though it's been unresponsive for an hour 04:41 <@preaction> ... and a hard reboot brings you back to a screen where it goes unresponsive without any input from you? 04:42 <@rizen> did you fuck up your mac? 04:42 <@preaction> because if it's still working, it might be a 2-minute fix, but if it's not you'll be spending the next four hours trying to rebuild the system because you have no idea what's wrong 04:42 <@preaction> my dev virtual machine 04:42 <@preaction> which is worse, because i KNOW that there are things i should back up, and being unresponsive means no backup 04:52 < SDuensin> Ouch. 05:06 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui 06:00 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 06:16 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:28 -!- patspam [n=notgiven@203-214-26-249.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #webgui 06:28 < patspam> hey guys 06:30 <@preaction> is the little metal bar on the chinese food boxes okay to put in the microwave? 06:31 < patspam> heh probably not.. 06:32 < patspam> is there a known bug with lastPost in relation to Message Boards? 06:33 <@preaction> you mean it being wrong? 06:33 < patspam> yeah 06:33 < patspam> that one 06:33 <@preaction> check the bug list, and what version? 06:33 <@preaction> i think we tried closing it 06:33 < patspam> 7.3.10 06:34 <@preaction> i think we tried closing it in .11 06:34 <@preaction> but you want .12 06:34 <@preaction> (since there's a known bug in .12 06:34 <@preaction> but then there are a lot of known bugs 06:34 <@preaction> umm.... 06:34 <@preaction> keep updated! 06:34 < patspam> ah cool, "lastpost" search in svn log didn't hit anything, I'll check the plainblack bug site 06:36 < patspam> hmm no hits on pb bug site 06:37 < patspam> and no mention in the changelog 06:37 <@preaction> maybe we didn't fix it 06:37 <@preaction> but i could've swore 06:39 <@rizen> my new girlfriend: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayaan_Hirsi_Ali 07:02 -!- patspam [n=notgiven@203-214-26-249.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 07:15 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 07:26 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:38 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 07:43 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:40 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 08:46 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:10 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:29 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 09:34 -!- Radix-work [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui 09:35 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:37 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:45 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui 09:56 -!- Radix-work [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:09 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 10:22 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:52 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 13:09 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:38 -!- diakopter [n=diakopte@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has joined #webgui 15:51 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@197.sub-75-205-65.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI 15:51 < SDuensin> Good morning! 15:53 < diakopter> morn 16:17 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui 16:17 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ 16:18 <@rizen> howdy 16:18 <+MrHairgrease> rizen are you there? 16:18 <+MrHairgrease> ah 16:18 <@rizen> nope 16:18 <+MrHairgrease> guess so 16:18 <@rizen> just us chickens 16:18 <@rizen> AMH_mari, are you there? 16:18 <+MrHairgrease> I'll be making an extension to the redirect asset 16:19 <+MrHairgrease> which will allow you to redirect based on the url that was called 16:19 <+MrHairgrease> will that have a chance to make it into 7.4? 16:19 <+MrHairgrease> i need to know 16:19 <+MrHairgrease> b/c i'll have to decide wheter i hack the original asset 16:19 <+MrHairgrease> or subclass it 16:20 <@rizen> i don't understand, the redirect asset has only one URL, so how could it do anything different based upon url? 16:20 <+MrHairgrease> think of something like this 16:20 <+MrHairgrease> oqapi.nl/home will redirect to oqapi.nl/home_nl 16:21 <+MrHairgrease> oqapi.com/home -> oqapi.com/home_en 16:21 <@rizen> so it's going to look at the sitename to make the determination 16:21 <+MrHairgrease> yeah 16:21 <+MrHairgrease> we used to do that with rewriterules 16:21 <+MrHairgrease> but those kinda suck 16:21 <+MrHairgrease> for stuff like this anyway 16:22 <@rizen> that sounds good, but what will the UI experience be like for the user 16:22 <@rizen> for example 16:22 <@rizen> let's say someone want's to use it the way it works now 16:22 <@rizen> will they have to type in a sitename? 16:23 <+MrHairgrease> I think i want to build it like this 16:23 <+MrHairgrease> there's a default redirect 16:23 <+MrHairgrease> which is the same as it is right now 16:23 <+MrHairgrease> users with the apropiate ui level however 16:23 <+MrHairgrease> will see a button 16:24 <+MrHairgrease> which says add specific edirect 16:24 <+MrHairgrease> click it and they get a row for a regex and a location 16:24 <+MrHairgrease> and again a button for adding additional rules 16:24 <+MrHairgrease> so in the end 16:25 <+MrHairgrease> the mere mortal end user 16:25 <@rizen> so you're basically rewriting rewrites 16:25 <+MrHairgrease> will notoce no difference 16:25 <+MrHairgrease> no really 16:25 <+MrHairgrease> rewrites ar emore powerful 16:25 <@rizen> ok, you're rewriting rewrites and making them suck 16:25 <@rizen> =) 16:25 <+MrHairgrease> but not very handy since they require shell access and a restart 16:26 <@rizen> one last question 16:26 <+MrHairgrease> dumb down would be the better term 16:26 < pjesi> I like it 16:26 <+MrHairgrease> =) 16:26 <@rizen> if in the future we design a way to tell mod_perl that mod_proxy is in SSL or not 16:26 <@rizen> could that be used in these rules? 16:26 <@rizen> so if you're in SSL redirect here 16:27 <@rizen> if not, redirect there 16:27 <+MrHairgrease> probably 16:27 <@rizen> ok then, you have my blessing 16:27 <@rizen> 7.4 it is 16:27 <+MrHairgrease> That might require an additional switch though 16:27 <+MrHairgrease> not completely sure yet 16:27 <+MrHairgrease> ok cool 16:31 < pjesi> since we are on the topic, can we add a small calendar template for month views to 7.4? I already have the template and the extra template variables for monthView 16:33 <@rizen> sure 16:33 <@rizen> since you're not a core contributor though 16:33 <@rizen> you need to publish your stuff to an RFE 16:33 <@rizen> so we remember to include it 16:38 < rjacobsen> rizen u have a minute? 16:38 <@rizen> sure 16:38 < rjacobsen> i submitted an rfe yesterday and it already has a -1 rating... im not sure people understand what i am asking for... 16:39 < rjacobsen> i think if people knew - they would like it ....but i dont know how to put it in tech terms 16:39 < Radix_> Ahh.. i bet rfe's are another one of the collabs that visitors can rate 16:40 < rjacobsen> real simple - make a list of the items that appear in the admin console with check boxes after them under each group category, then you can turn off or on the item in the admin console for that group 16:40 <@rizen> don't worry about the ratings 16:40 <@rizen> we don't even look at them 16:40 < rjacobsen> this would totally eliminate people in certain groups from seeing different things 16:40 < rjacobsen> ok man 16:40 <@rizen> the only thing that's important to us is the karma 16:41 < rjacobsen> i only had 353 karma and i THINK i fed it all into it.... not sure if i did it right tho 16:42 <@rizen> Karma Rank: 1117.66666666667 16:42 <@rizen> that's your karma rank as of now 16:42 < Radix_> wish my rfe's were that easy 16:43 < rjacobsen> umm why does it show 0.00004 karma rank on my screen? 16:43 < rjacobsen> wierd 16:43 < Radix_> I'm still pumping karma into the search one that aimtec submitted 16:44 <@rizen> probably cached 16:44 < Radix_> and it's ranked about 50 :( 16:44 <@rizen> what's the url radix? 16:44 < Radix_> http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/search-asset-returns-urls 16:44 <@rizen> the difference is that the karma scale for yours is 30 16:45 <@rizen> and the one for rjacobsens is 3 16:45 <@rizen> so you have to have 10 times the amount of karma to get it to the same level 16:45 < Radix_> I know :( 16:46 < Radix_> it's about the only thing I really want in webgui at the moment tho 16:47 < Radix_> can you actually see how much karma I've put into it so far? 16:48 <@rizen> that's easy, just multiply the rank by 30 16:48 <@rizen> karma rank = karma contribiuted / karma scale 16:49 < Radix_> so 1872 karma in there atm then 16:49 <@rizen> someone should put in an RFE to see karma scale and karma contributed 16:49 <@rizen> =) 16:50 < Radix_> pfft.. sif I have any karma left to put into that :P 16:50 <@rizen> you know if you contribute to these contests you get lots of karma 16:50 < Radix_> any news on when the wcc howto contest is going to be judged? 16:50 <@rizen> even if you don't win you still get 250 16:50 < pjesi> rjacobsen: I fixed your rating :) 16:50 < Radix_> I was hoping to get karma from that 16:51 <@rizen> that's a good question 16:51 < Radix_> I submitted about five entries 16:51 <@rizen> roy is in charge of that 16:51 <@rizen> oh, then you'll be getting lots of karma 16:51 < Radix_> that was the plan 16:51 < Radix_> :) 16:51 < rjacobsen> ty pjesi 16:51 <@rizen> when roy comes online i'll find out where that is 16:51 < Radix_> cool :) 16:52 <@rizen> i haven't seen him yet today 16:52 < rjacobsen> you guys should see the detail we have implimented webgui in on our server - these sites we are producing are totally dynamic - i am so loving this cms 16:53 < Radix_> cool 16:53 < rjacobsen> all i need to do now is provide our users an option to upload their own logo and they would be totally dynamic 16:54 < rjacobsen> some stuff on it i dont think anyone has ever thought of :) 16:54 < Radix_> Looking forward to seeing any contributions of cool assets/templates in the contribs section from you then! :) 16:55 < rjacobsen> u can view if ya like ....some of the sites are www.kidscorner.us.com , www.kidsmusiccds.us.com , www.urlittlestarzmusic.com , www.musicformeonline.com , etc 16:55 < rjacobsen> all on the same webgui..... kinda wondering what the limit is of sites we can setup inside it 16:56 <@rizen> roy says the voting poll will be up today 16:56 < Radix_> cool 16:56 < rjacobsen> we did make a really cool flash macro for webgui that works in all browsers 16:57 < Radix_> I know I won't win - pedersen has got that in the bag, but hopefully I'll win something :) 16:57 < rjacobsen> and also made a really cool template that fits and stretches to any browser dimension 16:57 < Radix_> I got one of those on my company page that works pretty well 16:57 < Radix_> can select 800, 1024 or full size 16:57 < Radix_> and it autosizes on the fly :) 16:57 < rjacobsen> so where would i post this flash macro we made? 16:58 <@rizen> contribs 16:58 < rjacobsen> ahh 16:58 <@rizen> http://www.plainblack.com/getwebgui/contributed-downloads 16:58 < rjacobsen> ill do that then :) 16:58 < SDuensin> Flash macro? 16:58 < rjacobsen> yep 16:58 < rjacobsen> really cool one 16:58 < rjacobsen> look at the links above 16:58 < SDuensin> Loading 16:59 < rjacobsen> the macros were designed for dynamic flash objects that recieve their text/properties from the web page that loads it 16:59 < rjacobsen> all those flash objects that have text recieve their text fields from webgui 16:59 < SDuensin> Nice. Sounds kinda like what I'm writing. :-) 17:00 -!- diakopter2 [n=diakopte@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has joined #webgui 17:00 < SDuensin> I'm doing a macro to put FLV video on my site. 17:00 < rjacobsen> they are all nothing more than empty flash objects 17:00 < rjacobsen> nice 17:00 -!- diakopter [n=diakopte@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 17:00 < rjacobsen> i think im about ready to take that test to become a macromedia certified pro...... 17:01 < SDuensin> I need to document all this stuff so I can upload it. 17:01 * SDuensin is a Flash n00b. 17:01 -!- diakopter2 is now known as diakopter 17:06 < rjacobsen> we also have a really cool SQLExt macro we custom made ill add to the contrib too 17:19 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@194.171.50.114] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:20 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui 17:20 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ 17:30 < rjacobsen> just submitted the flash macro to the contrib >> http://www.plainblack.com/user_contributions/user_contributions/macros/flash-macro#-Z7AdYBMS_QezLaVeK-H9A 17:39 < pjesi> is this IE hack really neccessary? 17:51 < rjacobsen> yes 17:51 < rjacobsen> trust me 17:51 < rjacobsen> because opera and ie 6 (which a lot of people still use) broke the flash objects 17:52 < rjacobsen> you can remove it if necessary im sure 17:52 < rjacobsen> but it really helps cross browser support 17:53 < rjacobsen> i will edit the post and upload the .js file as well 18:02 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@194.171.50.114] has left #webgui [] 18:24 -!- khenn [n=fdillon@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #WebGUI 18:24 -!- mode/#webgui [+o khenn] by ChanServ 18:27 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:54 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has joined #webgui 18:54 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 19:04 < rjacobsen> how do i edit my profile on the plainblack site? not sure i like using my email address as my username/nickname 19:05 <+perlDreamer> are you logged in now? 19:08 < rjacobsen> ya i am 19:08 <+perlDreamer> Do you see your login name as a link? 19:08 <+perlDreamer> Hello, loginName, you have XXXXX karma? 19:09 < rjacobsen> ya 19:09 <+perlDreamer> clicking your name will take you to the Edit Account page 19:09 <+perlDreamer> on that page will be a link to change your profile 19:09 < rjacobsen> but it is showin my email address as my login name 19:09 < rjacobsen> fixed 19:09 < rjacobsen> ty 19:12 <+perlDreamer> how are your websites coming along? 19:12 < rjacobsen> they are lookin very nice man 19:13 <+perlDreamer> cool 19:13 < rjacobsen> everything except the logo (if they choose to use one) is dynamic on them 19:13 <+perlDreamer> So you feel like you're coming up to speed in WebGUI? 19:15 < rjacobsen> www.kidscorner.us.com, www.personalizedcdsforkids.com, www.kidsmusiccds.us.com, www.musicalmemories4kids.com, www.musicformeonline.com, www.myspecialname.org, www.funmusicforkids.com, www.treasuresforall.net, and www.urlittlestarzmusic.com 19:15 < rjacobsen> just a few sites 19:15 <+perlDreamer> wow! 19:15 <+perlDreamer> you've been busy 19:16 < rjacobsen> i submitted 2 of my most favorite macros we made for webgui on the contrib page of webgui 19:16 <+perlDreamer> sqlext and the flash macro? 19:16 < rjacobsen> flash.pm and sqlext.pm 19:16 < rjacobsen> yep 19:16 < rjacobsen> im hopin others can use em too 19:17 < rjacobsen> i was gonna post the dynamic flash wobjects i made.... but the explanation could go into pages of writing 19:17 <+perlDreamer> I'm sure they will 19:17 <+perlDreamer> Just know that some people delight in giving things negative ranking for the heck of it 19:18 <+perlDreamer> Kind of like your RFE 19:18 <+perlDreamer> Just ignore it 19:18 < rjacobsen> all the text you see on those sites that have that kids.ttf font are nothing more than empty flash objects with dynamic text boxes being fed info from the current page it sits on in webgui 19:19 < rjacobsen> i love website design and am enjoying workin inside webgui.......... just wish i could get installed on my own personal site, but i dont have access to the computer 19:20 <+perlDreamer> yeah, the hosting requirements for wG are a bummer. 19:20 <+perlDreamer> Although, you can get stuff hosted quite cheaply if you google for wG hosting 19:20 <+perlDreamer> PB has an unsupported account for $20/month 19:23 < rjacobsen> oh really? 19:23 <+perlDreamer> yeah 19:23 < rjacobsen> u have a url for them? 19:23 < rjacobsen> maybe? 19:23 <+perlDreamer> https://www.plainblack.com/services/hosting 19:23 < rjacobsen> cuz i pay $8 a month for my current hosting... 19:23 <+perlDreamer> (had to go look it up) 19:24 < rjacobsen> with that would i have total access to webgui? shell access and all? 19:25 <+perlDreamer> With that account, I don't think there's shell access 19:25 < rjacobsen> ya 19:26 < rjacobsen> im thinkin of settin a pc next to my bosses in their IT building and piggy back their internet 19:26 <+perlDreamer> that would give you shell access 19:26 < rjacobsen> ya 19:32 < rjacobsen> well that wont happen.... i wonder if my cable connection at home would be fast enough to host it myself 19:33 <+perlDreamer> probably, but will they let you run a server on there? 19:33 < rjacobsen> ya 19:33 < rjacobsen> probably 1mb upload speed 19:34 < rjacobsen> dont know if that would be fast enough tho 19:36 <+perlDreamer> sure, why not? 19:36 <+perlDreamer> what kind of data would you host? 19:37 < rjacobsen> just a simple website for a world of wacraft gaming guild and setup a database for a roster and such 19:38 <+perlDreamer> that should be no problem at all 19:38 <+perlDreamer> you only need bandwidth for graphics, audio, multimedia and BIG files 19:38 < rjacobsen> eventually i wanna offer guilds in wow full sites at a cost that i would upkeep for them 19:39 < rjacobsen> something i dont think anyone is doing yet :) 19:40 <+perlDreamer> if you do that, then I'd definitely go with someone hosting it 19:40 <+perlDreamer> that way you offload all the hardware and OS maintenance onto someone else 19:40 <+perlDreamer> and let you concentrate on the core business 19:41 < rjacobsen> but i would need to have shell access 19:42 < rjacobsen> and im not rich lol 19:42 <+perlDreamer> What kind of shell access do you want for wG? 19:43 <+perlDreamer> I mean, most wG stuff is done right through the browser 19:43 < rjacobsen> to be able to create macros and such 19:43 <+perlDreamer> I see 19:43 <+perlDreamer> yeah, for custom code you have to have shell access 19:43 < rjacobsen> i dont think i can create macros in the gui 19:43 < rjacobsen> although that would make a cool RFE 19:44 <+perlDreamer> people have talked about allowing core code uploads, but it's dangerous 19:44 < rjacobsen> to add something that would allow the use to create a custom macro 19:44 < rjacobsen> user* 19:44 <+perlDreamer> since core code is shared among sites, one bad file contaminates everyone's site 19:44 < rjacobsen> ya 19:44 < rjacobsen> oh ya i have found that out 19:45 < rjacobsen> in just the 11 sites we have hosted 19:46 < rjacobsen> well time to get back to flash animation......... good talkin to ya tho :) 19:46 <+perlDreamer> cya 19:59 -!- greghacke [n=greghack@cpe-24-210-44-41.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 20:00 < greghacke> off-kilter q: anyone know where I can D/L a VM of webgui? 20:02 <+perlDreamer> sourceforge 20:02 < greghacke> where i am going now... 20:02 < diakopter> the one I put up there was removed I think 20:03 < diakopter> or at least unlinked/hidden 20:03 <+perlDreamer> oh, well in that case we don't have one anymore 20:03 <+perlDreamer> google? 20:03 < greghacke> looking there now. maay just go with WRE for windows 20:03 < greghacke> (cik) 20:03 < greghacke> (ick) 20:20 < greghacke> or buy a copy of RedHat Enterprise and build a VM myself. 20:24 <+perlDreamer> or use CentOs, which is RHEL 20:24 <+perlDreamer> or Scientific Linux, which is purer RHEL than CentOs 20:24 <+perlDreamer> or use Fedora 20:24 <+perlDreamer> or Ubuntu 20:24 <+perlDreamer> or even OpenSolaris 20:25 <+perlDreamer> I hear that BSD works pretty well 20:27 < greghacke> May try RHEL 20:27 < greghacke> I mean Scientific Linux 20:27 < greghacke> :-) I have CentOS 20:36 -!- greghacke [n=greghack@cpe-24-210-44-41.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:40 -!- greghacke [n=greghack@cpe-24-210-44-41.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 20:44 < diakopter> the wre 0.72 works just great on debian etch. 20:44 < diakopter> so you could use debian etch. 20:45 < greghacke> not a big debian user. Solaris, Slackware and RHEL are my most familiar... 20:49 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui 20:49 -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ 20:49 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has left #webgui [] 21:02 < greghacke> looks like i'm going to build a LiveCD with LAMP and wG7 21:11 -!- greghacke [n=greghack@cpe-24-210-44-41.columbus.res.rr.com] has left #webgui [] 21:41 < pjesi> and he left! 21:41 < pjesi> damn 22:11 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 22:11 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ 22:24 <+perlDreamer> ahoy, snapcount! 22:25 * snapcount coughs 22:25 <@snapcount> I have the plague 22:25 <@preaction> woohoo? 22:25 <+perlDreamer> hang tough 22:25 <+perlDreamer> drink lots of fluids 22:26 <+perlDreamer> and stay away from rats 22:26 <@snapcount> I'm almost undead 22:26 <@snapcount> this week has been hell 22:26 <@snapcount> I was in a state of hibernation last week 22:26 <@snapcount> slow roasting at 101.5 degrees F 22:28 <@preaction> in honey? honey is good 22:28 <@snapcount> mmm cheerios 22:34 <+perlDreamer> yup, he's sick 22:34 <+perlDreamer> two weeks ago it was Chips Ahoy 22:35 <+perlDreamer> look at how far you've fallen 22:39 <@preaction> http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comics/20070314.jpg 22:50 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@197.sub-75-205-65.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:52 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-3.adsl.indra.com] has joined #webgui 23:05 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] 23:48 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 23:48 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ 23:51 -!- diakopter is now known as diakopter_afk 23:52 -!- diakopter_afk is now known as diakopter2 23:56 <@snapcount> that comic is awesome preaction 23:56 <@preaction> yes, yes it is --- Day changed Sat Mar 17 2007 00:15 <+perlDreamer> case insensitive file systems suck 00:16 <@preaction> yes, yes they do 00:38 <+perlDreamer> Do you think we'll try to fix it in code, or abandon Windows? 00:50 <@preaction> it's just storage locations no? we should be able to fix it in code 01:11 -!- diakopter2 is now known as diakopter 01:12 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"] 02:06 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] 02:07 -!- snapcount_ [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 02:19 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI 02:20 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 02:20 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ 02:24 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:25 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-3.adsl.indra.com] has quit [] 02:26 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-3.adsl.indra.com] has joined #webgui 02:34 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-3.adsl.indra.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 02:42 < diakopter> rizen: will there be a non-ACME coding contest sometime this year? 03:05 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:05 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has joined #webgui 04:22 <@preaction> why doesn't WebGUI::Form::SelectList have a toHtmlWithWrapper() sub? 04:24 <@preaction> nevermind, its inherited, theres a different reason my form element doesn' thave a proper wrapper 05:35 < snapcount_> diakopter: yes 05:35 < snapcount_> actually it will be the contest for May 07:11 -!- snapcount_ [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [] 09:43 -!- diakopter [n=diakopte@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:50 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has joined #webgui 11:42 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] 12:48 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has quit [] 13:43 -!- Rugmonster [n=givensdj@user-24-236-70-83.knology.net] has joined #webgui 15:02 -!- Rugmonster [n=givensdj@user-24-236-70-83.knology.net] has quit ["leaving"] 18:10 -!- khenn [n=fdillon@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] 18:24 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 18:24 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ 18:49 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has joined #webgui 19:40 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:14 -!- besonen_mobile_ [n=besonen_@71-220-225-182.eugn.qwest.net] has joined #webgui 21:50 -!- Hinrik_ [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 21:53 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:11 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 23:20 -!- rjacobsen [n=rjacobse@74-129-192-43.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit ["User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby"] 23:25 -!- Hinrik_ [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:32 -!- preaction_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 23:39 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] --- Day changed Sun Mar 18 2007 00:29 -!- Hinrik_ [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 00:43 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:58 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] 01:24 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 01:39 -!- Hinrik_ [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:29 -!- preaction_ is now known as preaction 03:29 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 03:53 -!- bipolar [n=bflong@70.44.53.89] has joined #webgui 03:54 < bipolar> Does anyone else have a problem with pages just not displaying and other strange behavor problems after system upgrades? 04:17 <@preaction> step 1? 04:17 <@preaction> damnit gooeybot 04:18 -!- gooeybot [n=gooeybot@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 04:18 <@preaction> step 1? 04:18 <@preaction> i hate you gooeybot 04:18 <@preaction> bipolar: what does the error log say? 04:20 < bipolar> preaction: 2007/03/17 21:58:55 - WARN - securityservicecompany.com.conf - Log::Log4perl::Appender::log[182] - Couldn't call method view on asset for url: /home Root cause: Can't locate object method "get" via package "WebGUI::Storage::Image" at /usr/local/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Article.pm line 178. 04:20 <@preaction> did you restart? 04:20 -!- gooeybot [n=gooeybot@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:20 < bipolar> the weird thing is, this only happens on the home page 04:20 < bipolar> yes. 04:20 <@preaction> clear cache? 04:20 < bipolar> yep did that 04:21 <@preaction> let me grep the code to see what that error means 04:22 < bipolar> preaction: oh, wait... here's another one. I thought it was the same error over and over but it's this one too... 04:22 < bipolar> 2007/03/17 21:58:54 - ERROR - securityservicecompany.com.conf - Log::Log4perl::Logger::__ANON__[41] - Couldn't get UI level of WebGUI::Asset::File::Image. Root cause: Can't locate object method "getUiLevel" via package "WebGUI::Asset::File::Image" at /usr/local/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm line 494. 04:22 <@preaction> the getUiLevel one is common actually, but i don't think it's a "known bug" yet 04:22 <@preaction> there's something random about it 04:22 < bipolar> yeah... thats what it feels like. 04:23 < bipolar> I'm currently uploading a static "Down for Matainance" page... :\ 04:26 <@preaction> okay, it looks like they might be related, since both seem to be problems with Perl not doing inheritance correctly 04:26 <@preaction> you using the WRE? 04:31 < bipolar> Built from source 04:33 <@preaction> have you run sbin/testEnvironment.pl recently? 04:34 < bipolar> preaction: no, I'm running it now 04:35 < bipolar> XML::Simple is not installed 04:35 <@preaction> any errors in the Apache error log 04:35 < bipolar> preaction: I'll let you know when this is done 04:35 <@preaction> k 04:36 <@preaction> otherwise, using screen is fun too 04:37 < bipolar> preaction: there are quite a few modules that testEnviroment.pl is installing. I'm sure this is the problem. 04:37 <@preaction> what OS? 04:38 < bipolar> Debian Stable 04:38 <@preaction> good man 04:38 < bipolar> An upgrade must have borked perl 04:38 <@preaction> you could use apt to install these dependancies, then they'd stay proper maybe 04:38 <@preaction> or did you mean you built the WRE from source? 04:39 < bipolar> preaction: I don't think they are all in Sarge. I do rember having to install some modules from cpan 04:39 < bipolar> I built just webgui, not the wre 04:39 <@preaction> k 04:41 < bipolar> I guess I should have built the wre.. whould probbly have avoided this problem 04:43 -!- bipolar [n=bflong@70.44.53.89] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:43 -!- bipolar [n=bflong@70.44.53.89] has joined #webgui 04:46 <@preaction> eh, that's what testEnvironment.pl is for 04:46 < bipolar> yep... here's a typical debian problem. 04:46 < bipolar> MagickCore.h is nowhere to be found 04:47 <@preaction> apt-get install perlmagick <- should work 04:47 < bipolar> auto-apt can't find it, and Image::Magick needs it. 04:47 < bipolar> yep. that installed an older version then what's in cpan, but it'll work :) 04:48 <@preaction> sometimes i dislike having imagemagick as a dependancy... someone needs to make WebGUI::Image work with both Image Magick AND GD (GD apparently being so much more awesome) 04:48 * bipolar wonders how his perl install got to be missing all this stuff 04:49 <@preaction> maybe you somehow upgraded to 5.8? or something? 04:49 <@preaction> i don't know, i left debian because of their bass-ackwards release scheduling 04:50 < bipolar> preaction: what do you use now? 04:50 <@preaction> i'm leaving ubuntu because the stability is not nearly as nice as FreeBSD 04:51 <@preaction> the lappy's got Mac OS X, the server is running FreeBSD, the desktop that doesn't do anything is running Ubuntu, and the media center has WinXP 04:51 < bipolar> ah 04:52 <@preaction> i do a lot of work on CentOS, which enhances my hatred of RPM distros 04:52 < bipolar> haha 04:52 <@preaction> it's JTs distro of choice, for some reason I cannot fathom 04:52 < bipolar> yes... I long ago turned my back on rpm. 04:53 < bipolar> I've never seen an RPM system that worked better then below average 04:53 <@preaction> it's just an outdated system, great for its time, but nobody kept it relevant. now APT is a billion times better 04:55 < bipolar> testEnviroment is done, everything is installed. I'm restarting apache2 04:56 < bipolar> preaction: that looks like it did it!@ 04:56 <@preaction> word 04:57 < bipolar> now if I could just figure out how to get rid of this index.pl mess 04:57 <@preaction> huh? 04:57 < bipolar> some pages still point to sitename/index.pl/pagename 04:58 < bipolar> This site's been upgraded since 6.3, when index.pl was still used 04:58 <@preaction> in the before time? in the long-long ago? 05:00 < bipolar> heh 05:02 < bipolar> hmm... now it looks like there is a layout stuck in pending 05:03 <@preaction> is spectre running/ 05:03 < bipolar> heh... of cource not.. thats why. ;) 05:32 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has left #webgui [] 06:36 -!- bipolar [n=bflong@70.44.53.89] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:36 -!- bipolar [n=bflong@70.44.53.89] has joined #webgui 06:41 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 06:41 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 08:41 -!- bipolar [n=bflong@70.44.53.89] has left #webgui ["Konversation terminated!"] 09:02 -!- SDuensin_ [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI 09:12 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:20 -!- Radix__ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has joined #webgui 10:34 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:25 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:36 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 18:34 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui 18:34 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ 21:00 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 21:01 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ 21:53 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 21:53 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ 22:10 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [] --- Day changed Mon Mar 19 2007 00:43 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:32 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui 02:22 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui 02:23 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ 02:40 <@rizen> MrHairGrease...don't you think that there should be an exception to the rule about plain black employee's getting to enter into the acme contest 02:40 <@rizen> especially since i wrote the cool and all powerful BASIC macro? 02:40 <+MrHairgrease> sure it's cool and and all 02:40 <+MrHairgrease> biut does it run linux? 02:41 <@rizen> hells yes it runs on linux 02:41 <@rizen> it's a pure perl interpreter 02:41 <@rizen> it runs everywhere 02:41 <+MrHairgrease> i didn't say 'on' 02:41 <@rizen> oh 02:41 <+MrHairgrease> you obviously don't read slashdot enough 02:41 <@rizen> i suppose if you wrote linux in basic it would...but that would be very difficult since it doesn't give you any sort of device access 02:41 <+MrHairgrease> which is a good thing i guess 02:42 <+MrHairgrease> hell yeah 02:42 <+MrHairgrease> it has peek and poke 02:42 <@rizen> i still say that my basic macro is way better than both your excuse directory and your leetout 02:42 <@rizen> in fact better than both of them combined 02:42 <@rizen> therefore i should win the contest 02:43 <+MrHairgrease> you go win the contest 02:43 < Radix-wrk> Don't we get to vote on it this time? :) 02:43 <+MrHairgrease> i'll go for eternal fame 02:44 <@rizen> we should do it like "win ben steins money" where we put up some cash, and you try to take it from us by beating our submissions 02:44 <@rizen> if we win, we keep the cash 02:44 <@rizen> if you win, you get it 02:44 <@rizen> =) 02:44 <+MrHairgrease> if your best submission involves 60's progframming languages 02:44 <+MrHairgrease> how hard can it be? 02:44 <@rizen> Radix-wrk...you believe that my basic macro is best, don't you? 02:44 <+MrHairgrease> =) 02:45 <@rizen> this is the ACME thing...it's whatever is most useless that wins 02:45 <@rizen> how can you beat that 02:45 <+MrHairgrease> it's bad 02:45 <@rizen> your excuse file could actually be useless 02:45 <+MrHairgrease> because you could use it in templates 02:45 <@rizen> sorry useful 02:45 <+MrHairgrease> to add logic to the presentation 02:45 <@rizen> and the leetout is cool...so therefore can't be totally useless 02:45 <+MrHairgrease> also 02:46 <+MrHairgrease> mine soes not require the end user to do anything 02:46 <+MrHairgrease> yours will tire them 02:46 <@rizen> right, which makes yours even more useful 02:46 <+MrHairgrease> debugging goto statements 02:46 <+MrHairgrease> =) 02:46 <@rizen> if it does all the work 02:46 <@rizen> also...mine has no tie ins to any webgui variables...therefore you can't really use it for logic in templates 02:46 <@rizen> it's completely useless 02:47 <+MrHairgrease> a good acme has an infinite entertainment/effort ratio 02:47 <@rizen> you can't accept any input from the user 02:47 <@rizen> ok...there's nothing entertaining about mine, other than that it's funny to see a 30 year old language emedded in webgui 02:47 <+MrHairgrease> yes but you can put tmpl_var inside a macro which in turn will generate javscript 02:48 <+MrHairgrease> i never said i didn't like it 02:48 <+MrHairgrease> =) 02:48 <+MrHairgrease> Anyway 02:49 <+MrHairgrease> it's bed time over here 02:49 <+MrHairgrease> see you later 02:49 <@rizen> the real reason i wrote it was that i figured it would give you something cool to talk about in your talk at the wuc 02:49 <@rizen> good night 02:49 <+MrHairgrease> i know 02:49 <+MrHairgrease> you started it 02:49 <+MrHairgrease> =) 02:49 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] 03:26 -!- Hinrik_ [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has joined #webgui 03:38 -!- Hinrik [n=hinrik@dsl-228-236.hive.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:25 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui 04:26 < PedersenMJ> g'd evening. 04:39 < Radix-wrk> hey PedersenMJ 04:39 < PedersenMJ> How goes it? 04:39 < Radix-wrk> Good :) 04:39 < Radix-wrk> I see you're winning in the polls so far.. tis good to see :) 04:40 < PedersenMJ> Well, I hope it stays that way for me, I have to admit. 04:40 < Radix-wrk> I'm coming second, third and tied for fourth atm.. hehe 04:41 < PedersenMJ> Heh. Wonder if I could've taken 1st through 5th if I'd broken that one article up into smaller ones somehow ;) 04:41 < Radix-wrk> Oh you won't have any competition - no way.. you'll win hands down 04:41 < Radix-wrk> Well I'm glad you didn't :P 04:42 < PedersenMJ> I hope I win. But I know better than to jinx things by thinking that I will win. 04:42 < Radix-wrk> hehe 04:43 < PedersenMJ> One of the most humiliating losses I can ever remember happened that way. Spelling bee. Given an easy word. Characteristic. Spelled it Charateristic. I try and remember that every time I think that winning is a guarantee. 04:44 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui 04:44 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 04:45 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 04:45 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ 04:46 -!- mode/#webgui [-o snapcount] by snapcount 04:47 < Radix-wrk> heh 04:56 <+perlDreamer> when I reach 20K karma do I get to take over WebGUI? 04:58 < PedersenMJ> Nah, that's when the boss-fight happens. At 20K karma, JT becomes Mega-JT, and you have to duke it out Mortal Kombat style. Except he's also got about 3000 special moves and combos you have to counter. 05:00 <+perlDreamer> I only have 1 special move, but it's a killer 05:01 < PedersenMJ> I'm going to regret asking this, and I know it. And yet, I find myself unable to *not* ask it. What's your special move, pD? 05:04 <+perlDreamer> I'm a tuba player. 'nuff said ;) 05:10 <+perlDreamer> PedersenMJ: how are you doing in the wiki ratings? 05:11 < PedersenMJ> So far, doing well. 05:11 < PedersenMJ> Hopefully, staying there. 05:11 <+perlDreamer> looks like you're well ahead of the competition. 05:11 <@rizen> please, PD, i've got you so beat as far as special moves go 05:12 <+perlDreamer> everyone knows the game is designed so the underdog hero can win 05:13 <@rizen> what makes you think you're the underdog hero and not the chump that is made an example of at the beginning so that everyone thinks the hero can't win 05:13 <+perlDreamer> I've been doing this too long to be the chump at the beginning 05:13 <@rizen> ok...maybe you're just another one in the bracket then along the way to the final match 05:14 <@rizen> hehe 05:14 <@rizen> but yeah, if you get 20k karma you can have webgui, and then i can go take a nap 05:14 <@rizen> =) 05:14 <+perlDreamer> give me a few more months and I'll be there 05:14 <@rizen> why don't you spend your karma on something? or is it a status thing for you? 05:14 <+perlDreamer> what can I spend it on? 05:15 <+perlDreamer> If I want something, I code it. 05:15 <+perlDreamer> I have given some away to some bug reports with patches 05:15 <+perlDreamer> and I was going to give some away to GregHacke, but he never posted the bug solution 05:16 <@rizen> you know you can't give karma to users that way, right? 05:16 <@rizen> currently colin is in the lead karma-wise 05:17 <@rizen> cuz i keep spending my karma 05:17 <+perlDreamer> doesn't rating in the discussion board transfer karma to the user? 05:17 <@rizen> i generally make about 2500 karma a month in posts and whatnot 05:17 <@rizen> the rating transfers 1 from you to them 05:18 <+perlDreamer> is that an RFE-able feature? 05:18 <@rizen> http://rafb.net/p/LsYJhE69.html 05:18 <@rizen> is what an rfeable feature? 05:18 <@rizen> being able to give karma to another user? 05:19 <+perlDreamer> yes 05:19 <@rizen> sure 05:20 <+perlDreamer> any particulars of implementation that I should be wary of? 05:20 <@rizen> why are you thinking of writing it? 05:21 <@rizen> if not, then it doesn't matter 05:21 <+perlDreamer> I wouldn't mind writing it 05:21 <+perlDreamer> but there are lots of bugs to be fixed, still 05:22 <@rizen> feel free to give it a go 05:22 <@rizen> really shouldn't take more than an hour to write it 05:24 <+perlDreamer> it would be good to write it without building a form that lists every user in the system. 05:24 <@rizen> pd...have you installed my BASIC macro yet 05:24 <@rizen> i know you want to 05:24 <@rizen> it's the most useful macro EVER 05:24 <@rizen> =) 05:24 <+perlDreamer> If it's useful, you'll never win the contest 05:24 <+perlDreamer> I should get off my butt and work on my entry. 05:24 <@rizen> it's not useful, that's the point 05:24 <@rizen> i was being sarcastic 05:25 <@rizen> i'm totally going to win that contest, even though i'm ineligible 05:26 <+perlDreamer> so far MHG has the only vaid entry? 05:27 <@rizen> yup 05:27 <@rizen> he's got no competition 05:27 <@rizen> i figured people would rush in on this one 05:27 <+perlDreamer> ACME is a tough category 05:27 <@rizen> it's easy to do something silly 05:27 <+perlDreamer> I'll tell you about my entry if you don't backdoor me 05:27 <+perlDreamer> I'm going to write a new form control 05:27 <+perlDreamer> For the CueCat 05:27 <@rizen> well i won't..but someone else might 05:28 <@rizen> what is CueCat? 05:28 <@rizen> the barcode reader? 05:28 <+perlDreamer> yeah 05:28 <+perlDreamer> http://rafb.net/p/LsYJhE69.html 05:28 <+perlDreamer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cue_cat 05:28 <@rizen> do you have one? 05:29 <+perlDreamer> I think so, tucked away in a dark corner 05:29 <@rizen> i figured someone would come up with the most obvious acme macro ever 05:29 <+perlDreamer> Although, it might actually be useful 05:29 <@rizen> something that would display random pictures of their sister 05:29 <@rizen> or whomever 05:29 < Radix-wrk> heh 05:29 <@rizen> it can't be something that would display just any random pics 05:29 <@rizen> it has to be a predefined set of random pics 05:30 <@rizen> that makes it truely useless 05:30 <+perlDreamer> ^MySisterHasZits(); 05:30 <@rizen> another thing i thought of was if someone made a generic set of toolbar icons 05:30 <@rizen> no programming required 05:30 <@rizen> just some new graphics that said the same thing as the current ones 05:30 < Radix-wrk> Displays all pictures that get votes between 3.2 and 4.0 from hotornot.com 05:30 <@rizen> only they're black and white 05:31 <@rizen> hehe 05:31 <@rizen> yeah..that's the ticket radix 05:31 <@rizen> and don't make it adjustable 05:31 <@rizen> just 3.2 to 4.09 05:31 < Radix-wrk> heh 05:31 <@rizen> actually...some toolbar icons that are completely unintelligble would be cool too 05:32 < Radix-wrk> I'm surprised there isn't an 8-ball macro already 05:32 <+perlDreamer> Answer imminent 05:32 <@rizen> another one i thought of was a set of icons to go in the fileIcons folder for programs that no longer exist 05:32 <@rizen> like if you could get the icon for Lotus 1-2-3 05:33 <+perlDreamer> how about a set of OO icons to replace the standard Microsoft ones? 05:33 <@rizen> that could be construed as useful though 05:33 <+perlDreamer> I'm hopeless at being useless 05:34 <@rizen> no..the cuecat is a good one 05:34 <@rizen> nobody has one of those 05:34 < PedersenMJ> Actually, I think I've got three of them. 05:34 <@rizen> and the only way you could get one is to find it at ebay or something since the company is out of businesss 05:34 <@rizen> that makes it perfectly 05:34 <@rizen> uselss 05:35 <+perlDreamer> okay, time to start hacking 05:35 <+perlDreamer> see y'all tomorrow 05:35 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:35 <@rizen> i should head out too...have a good night everyone 05:35 <@rizen> and PedersenMJ, i expect you to start working on those icons immediately 05:35 <@rizen> =) 05:36 <@rizen> later 05:36 < PedersenMJ> Heh. L8r JT :) 05:41 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [] 05:48 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] 06:06 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has quit [] 06:37 < Radix-wrk> hehe.. http://www.plainblack.com/user_contributions/user_contributions/acme/8-ball-macro 06:38 < Radix-wrk> couldn't help myself ;) 08:11 <@preaction> Radix-wrk: not to give you the inside track or anything, but what about a macro that calls: `fortune` on *nix-type systems? 08:19 < Radix-wrk> Yeah, I thought about that.. as I remember you suggesting it.. but then I realised that JT's ^RandomSisterPic(); macro key is obviously the winning ticket.. 08:19 < Radix-wrk> the thing is.. the fortune one.. would be useful! 08:20 <@preaction> lol 08:20 <@preaction> could be, if you programmed it right 08:20 <@preaction> ACME is meant to be (imho) a quirky display of features 08:20 < Radix-wrk> Yeah, well so was 8-ball - until I hard coded the question.. 08:20 < Radix-wrk> Wouldn't want anyone to get anything useful out of it :) 08:21 <@preaction> you can get useful things out of it, it just can't be useful on it's own 08:21 <@preaction> (again, imho) 08:21 < Radix-wrk> hehe 08:21 <@preaction> implement a macro using Acme::Bleach 08:21 <@preaction> implement something extra-useful using Acme::Bleach rofl 08:22 < Radix-wrk> http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=470390 08:22 <@preaction> get the Abe Vigoda death thingy in a macro 08:22 < Radix-wrk> I really liked this one actually.. but didn't know how to rewrite it to work in webgui 08:22 <@preaction> lol 08:22 < Radix-wrk> obfuscated! 08:23 <@preaction> you could trap the print statement by opening a scalar as a filehandle 08:23 < Radix-wrk> See my perl knowledge is very very limited.. so I wouldn't know how to do that 08:24 < Radix-wrk> I tried assigning the sprintf output to a variable, but that broke the code somehow 08:24 < Radix-wrk> and it wanted an extra } after that 08:24 <@preaction> my $buffer; open my $fh, "<", \$buffer or die "Couldn't open scalar as filehandle: $@"; 08:24 <@preaction> then you select $fh; 08:24 <@preaction> then after the print, you close $fh; and then $buffer will contain what you want 08:24 <@preaction> perlbot -f open 08:24 < Radix-wrk> hehe 08:24 < perlbot> Documentation for 'open' can be found here: http://xrl.us/vdwo 08:25 < Radix-wrk> it's okay.. the code I gave was simple enough :) 08:26 <@preaction> http://www.abevigoda.com/ffb.php <- macro to scrape this site 08:27 <@preaction> or a random chuck norris quote! 08:27 <@preaction> er.. "fact" 08:27 < Radix-wrk> hehe 08:27 <@preaction> omg: RANDOM FARK HEADLINE 08:28 <@preaction> i mean, it's possible with an Syndication Wobject maybe 08:28 <@preaction> god damnit i should be in bed 08:28 < Radix-wrk> yes, I think you should be.. you're going a little crazy with suggestions :) 08:29 <@preaction> i haven't been able to work on anything "WebGUI"-core related in a long time 08:29 <@preaction> makes me antsy in the pantsy 08:29 < Radix-wrk> acme bleach looks funny 08:29 < Radix-wrk> no idea how you would use it tho 08:30 < Radix-wrk> http://www.cloudfactory.org/~barbara/LJ%20photos/moonwalk.jpg 08:31 <@preaction> i forget. something like the first time you run a script made with "use Acme::Bleach", it replaces your source with the bleached version of your source 08:31 <@preaction> meaning: no bugfixen 08:31 <@preaction> rofl 08:33 < Radix-wrk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nRNYG_xM2U 08:33 < Radix-wrk> Tickle Me Emo 08:34 <@preaction> rofl oh god. depress-a-me street 08:34 < Radix-wrk> "i hurt myself to feel" 08:35 <@preaction> good lord god 08:35 * preaction hates emos 08:35 < Radix-wrk> hehe 08:35 < Radix-wrk> I'm sure they hate you right back! 08:35 <@preaction> i could seriously go off on about a three-hour rant about emos 08:35 <@preaction> but see, they care that i hate them, i don't care that they hate me 08:35 < Radix-wrk> please dont 08:35 * preaction shuts up 08:36 < Radix-wrk> hehe 08:36 < Radix-wrk> go to bed :) 08:36 <@preaction> rofl and the emos go to the comments 08:36 * preaction & sleep 09:04 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:07 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui 11:38 < AMH_mari> Hello all 11:39 < AMH_mari> Done the upgrade to WebGUI 7.3.12 last friday and ran into a bit of a problem. 11:40 < AMH_mari> lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm now does things to dots in URLs; diff to 7.3.11. excerpt: 11:40 < AMH_mari> 415,421d407 11:40 < AMH_mari> < 11:40 < AMH_mari> < # remove multiple extensions from the url if there are some 11:40 < AMH_mari> < while ($url =~ m{^(.*)\.\w+(/.*)$}) { 11:40 < AMH_mari> < $url =~ s{^(.*)\.\w+(/.*)$}{$1$2}ig; 11:40 < AMH_mari> < } 11:43 < AMH_mari> An URL like e.g. knktemplatestest2/002.000.011/images/brown/header_bottom_left.gif gets corrupted when addChild() is called with this URL in properties{'url'} 11:45 < AMH_mari> I will change all my URLS so that dot is replaced with e.g. _, but I am a bit surprised with the decision to have WebGUI change URLs like this; is there a specific reason for wanting this? 11:47 < AMH_mari> BTW: my apologies if I'm disturbing anyone's sleep; I'm in timezone GMT+1 11:47 < Radix__> hi mari - I suspect it's for the different template libraries, but I'm no expert I'm afraid 11:48 < Radix__> template toolkit uses .'s in it's templates I believe 11:48 < Radix__> your best bet is to stick around (and idle for a while) until preaction (wakes up), or perldreamer or rizen logs in 11:51 < AMH_mari> Thanks, Radix__, willdo 15:06 -!- wgGuest07 [n=wgGuest0@201.11.22.50] has joined #webgui 15:06 -!- wgGuest07 [n=wgGuest0@201.11.22.50] has quit [Client Quit] 15:44 -!- ckotil [n=newtrino@snare.grnoc.iu.edu] has joined #webgui 15:48 < ckotil> I think i found a bug with how pending version tags are handled. THey show up as having an error, until the version tag is approved. 16:02 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 16:02 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ 16:35 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 16:35 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ 16:36 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:38 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 16:38 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ 16:40 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:03 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has joined #webgui 17:03 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 17:15 < AMH_mari> Hi all, 17:15 < AMH_mari> Done the upgrade to WebGUI 7.3.12 last friday and ran into a bit of a problem. 17:15 < AMH_mari> lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm now does things to dots in URLs; diff to 7.3.11. excerpt: 17:15 < AMH_mari> 415,421d407 17:15 < AMH_mari> < 17:15 < AMH_mari> < # remove multiple extensions from the url if there are some 17:15 < AMH_mari> < while ($url =~ m{^(.*)\.\w+(/.*)$}) { 17:15 < AMH_mari> < $url =~ s{^(.*)\.\w+(/.*)$}{$1$2}ig; 17:15 < AMH_mari> < } 17:15 < AMH_mari> An URL like e.g. knktemplatestest2/002.000.011/images/brown/header_bottom_left.gif gets corrupted when addChild() is called with this URL in properties{'url'} 17:15 < AMH_mari> I will change all my URLS so that dot is replaced with e.g. _, but I am a bit surprised with the decision to have WebGUI change URLs like this; is there a specific reason for wanting this? 17:16 <@rizen> Ye 17:16 <@rizen> Yes 17:16 <@rizen> it was changed like that so not to break exports 17:16 <@rizen> several of our customers use WebGUI to publish content 17:17 <@rizen> to static sources 17:17 <@rizen> so they use the static page export 17:17 <@rizen> what they wanted was to make sure that file extensions were removed from URLs as they are created 17:17 <@rizen> so if you had a page called home.html 17:17 <@rizen> and added a sub page, it used to be home.html/subpage.html 17:17 <@rizen> and now it will be home/subpage.html 17:18 <@rizen> because you couldn't have both a file and a directory called "home.html" 17:18 <@rizen> nor does it make sense 17:18 <@rizen> the URL makes much more sense without the extension 17:19 <@preaction> fyi: the export feature should actually work with home.html/subpage.html now, but i still agree with leaving the ".html" when automatically generating URLs, and rewriting to _ in folders 17:19 <@preaction> *leaving out 17:20 <@rizen> it did, but there was another change added 17:20 <@rizen> where some files can be exported as files instead of folders 17:20 <@rizen> so in those cases it didn't work 17:20 <@preaction> ah 17:21 < AMH_mari> Hello rizen, thanks for your answer. There are good reasons for the change, I understand from the above, so I'll avoid having dots in my URLs. 17:21 < AMH_mari> No problem 17:29 < ckotil> http://snare.grnoc.iu.edu/stuff/pwned.jpg snapped this in utah 17:38 <+perlDreamer> Real friends don't let friends use case insensitive file systems 17:43 < ckotil> hey pd, im seeing a bunch of errors in my webgui.log as soon as a version tag becomes pending, waiting for approval 17:46 < ckotil> it seems to me that when there is a pending version tag, the workflow doesnt execute , and it shows up in the log as an error. 17:46 < ckotil> OR, something is screwed up on my install 17:53 <+perlDreamer> what kind of errors? 17:53 <+perlDreamer> I haven't played with that workflow yet 17:53 < ckotil> POE::Kernel::_Dispatch_event errors 17:53 <+perlDreamer> pastification? 17:53 < ckotil> and CRON , so im guessing thats scheduled events 17:54 < ckotil> im not sure what that is, pastification 17:55 <+perlDreamer> Could you paste some of the errors into a file on one of the IRC-used paste sites 17:55 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: paste? 17:55 < perlbot> Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it. 17:55 <+perlDreamer> pastebin.ca is another good site 17:58 < ckotil> k 18:02 < ckotil> http://erxz.com/pb/1829 18:04 <+perlDreamer> there are three workflow IDs in there with communications problems. We need to figure out what they are. 18:05 < ckotil> pbcron is send queued email. 18:06 < ckotil> the workflow id' 18:06 < ckotil> s ive bene trying to track down, but have been unsuccessful 18:06 < ckotil> QqTBeY... is in workflowInstance table 18:06 < ckotil> but the other 2 i have no idea where they could be 18:11 <+perlDreamer> I'd post a bug about it. 18:11 < ckotil> kthx. 18:15 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"] 18:17 -!- diakopter [n=diakopte@pdpc/supporter/active/diakopter] has joined #webgui 18:41 <+perlDreamer> rizen: DateTime::Set is going to be a very heavy solution for the calendar. 18:41 <+perlDreamer> To build the sets, it makes multiple objects and then iterates over them 18:41 <+perlDreamer> so if we wanted to get the day view for a calendar that had an weekly event for the next year, it would build a set of 52 objects 18:45 <@rizen> ok....but how much memory is that, and how long does it take to create an object 18:45 <@rizen> if each object is only 1k and it takes 0.0003 seconds to create each object, then in the greater scheme of things it's not that big of a deal 18:46 <@rizen> statistics without relativity are useless 18:53 <+perlDreamer> I have no idea, I only know that object creation in perl is a very slow operation 19:08 -!- MrHairgreas1 [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui 20:46 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has left #webgui [] 20:51 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"] 21:52 -!- ckotil [n=newtrino@snare.grnoc.iu.edu] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 21:55 -!- ckotil [n=newtrino@snare.grnoc.iu.edu] has joined #webgui 22:22 -!- MrHairgreas1 [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] 22:22 -!- MrHairgreas1 [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui 22:31 -!- khenn [n=fdillon@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #WEbGUI 22:31 -!- mode/#webgui [+o khenn] by ChanServ 22:32 <@khenn> MrHairgreas: are you arond? 22:32 <@khenn> around? 22:33 < MrHairgreas1> yes 22:33 -!- MrHairgreas1 is now known as MrHairgrease 22:33 <@khenn> question about SQL Form 22:33 <@khenn> can you use a group field? 22:33 <@khenn> do choose from a list of groups in WebGUI? 22:34 <@khenn> I'm guessing not 22:34 < MrHairgrease> to do what? 22:34 < MrHairgrease> oh 22:34 < MrHairgrease> I dunno 22:34 < MrHairgrease> In priciple it should work 22:34 < MrHairgrease> but you cannot use it to do privs 22:34 <@khenn> meaning what? 22:35 < MrHairgrease> You cannot do anything group related with those fields 22:35 < MrHairgrease> just store groupId's 22:35 <@khenn> right 22:35 <@khenn> that's what I need to do 22:36 < MrHairgrease> storing? 22:48 -!- wgGuest96 [n=wgGuest9@207.66.131.242] has joined #webgui 22:49 -!- wgGuest96 is now known as isaacfinnegan 22:49 < isaacfinnegan> can I ask a Plainblack corp. question? --- Log closed Mon Mar 19 22:51:53 2007 --- Log opened Thu Mar 22 17:22:23 2007 17:22 -!- xdanger [i=xdanger@217.112.244.70] has joined #webgui 17:22 -!- Irssi: #webgui: Total of 13 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 1 voices, 11 normal] 17:22 -!- Irssi: Join to #webgui was synced in 3 secs 17:48 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 17:48 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ 17:49 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [] 17:55 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-3.adsl.indra.com] has joined #webgui 18:09 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"] 18:11 -!- AMH_bob [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:35 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui 18:36 -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ 18:44 -!- cap10morgan_ [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-1.adsl.indra.com] has joined #webgui 19:03 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-3.adsl.indra.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:32 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has joined #webgui 19:32 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 19:35 <+perlDreamer> no more IRC logging going on? 19:35 <+perlDreamer> preaction: you're going to love this one 19:35 <+perlDreamer> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/calendar---events-that-span-over-two-months-do-not-appear-in-the-month-view.--patch-is-attached#xoczlYTgnt1v5gGqSqVyGg 19:36 * SDuensin logs the planet. 19:36 <+perlDreamer> It's a simple, elegant patch for the display logic problem in the calendar 19:36 <+perlDreamer> no set logic, just start and end date overrides 19:37 <@preaction> looks good to me 19:38 <+perlDreamer> me, too 19:38 <+perlDreamer> I feel like an idiot for not thinking about it myself 19:38 * SDuensin may actually have an ACME entry soon. 19:38 <@preaction> i'm seriously considering trying to remove that functionality entirely, the showing events that span multiple days on each day 19:38 <@preaction> i hates it 19:38 <+perlDreamer> force everyone to use recurrence? 19:39 <@preaction> or, at least, make it an option to turn off 19:39 <+perlDreamer> options make programming worse 19:39 <@preaction> right, now i remember, easier to make a viewList sub instead 19:40 <@preaction> the other views will get spans as well, i remember JT saying he wanted to see bars in the day view, like most calendar apps, showing the length of time an event spans that day 19:40 <+perlDreamer> making recurrence mandatory would cause more events to be in the db, so it would be a little slower, but not much 19:40 <@preaction> but they aren't really recurring events, they're events that span more than one "day", "hour", or etc... 19:41 <+perlDreamer> well, this patch should work well in any view. And the list view isn't changed by this. 19:41 <@preaction> also, after we convert to using DateTime::Event::iCal, it Might actually be feasible to not store every recurrance of a recurring event in the database 19:42 <@preaction> which could simplify a lot of things 19:42 <+perlDreamer> that's a different set of bugs 19:42 <@preaction> true enough 19:42 <+perlDreamer> just be thankful that this is software and not hardware 19:42 <+perlDreamer> hardware bugs suck 20:06 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-3.adsl.indra.com] has joined #webgui 20:25 -!- cap10morgan_ [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-1.adsl.indra.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:03 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-3.adsl.indra.com] has quit [] 21:04 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-3.adsl.indra.com] has joined #webgui 21:08 <@rizen> ckotil...what version of webgui are you running on that box? 21:08 <@rizen> 7.3.12? 21:11 <@rizen> nevermind...posting to forums 21:12 <+perlDreamer> 7.1.13 21:12 <+perlDreamer> I worked with him yesterday on this 21:12 <+perlDreamer> it's like his apache is using a different perl from his command line 21:17 < ckotil> 7.3.13 21:18 < ckotil> im pretty certain apache is using the right version of perl 21:25 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:26 < SDuensin> Hey rizen. 21:47 -!- perlmonkey2 [n=kmurphy@ip70-189-104-178.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #webgui 22:28 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@246.sub-75-205-74.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:46 < ckotil> heading home 23:37 < cap10morgan> what are some common things to check on when spectre reports "Response for (assetId) had a communications error."? 23:38 < cap10morgan> this is on a custom workflow i wrote, so i'm debugging my own code 23:38 <@rizen> turn on info in your log 23:38 <@rizen> INFO 23:39 <@rizen> and then restart everything and run it again 23:39 < cap10morgan> ok, will do 23:39 <@rizen> then monitor the log and it will give you details as to what's happening 23:39 < cap10morgan> great 23:50 -!- vayde [n=vayde@209.134.142.196] has joined #webgui 23:50 -!- mode/#webgui [+o vayde] by ChanServ 23:50 <+perlDreamer> rizen: can you please give TjECC about a bazillion karma for finding an easy solution to the calendar display problem? 23:58 <+perlDreamer> preaction: what's the DateTime magic invocation for finding the last day of a month? 23:59 <@preaction> perlDreamer: it's in that patch iirc, DateTime->last_day_of_month() or something 23:59 <+perlDreamer> thanks --- Day changed Fri Mar 23 2007 00:11 -!- vayde [n=vayde@209.134.142.196] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:37 <+perlDreamer> closed two calendar bugs 00:37 <+perlDreamer> catch y'all later 00:37 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"] 01:23 <@preaction> rizen: mind if i add the ability to see a userDefined field in the Post edit template as a hidden form element? it's necessary for the alumni project 01:24 <@rizen> you can already do that 01:24 <@rizen> with a custom template 01:25 <@preaction> how? 01:25 <@rizen> 01:26 <@preaction> should that be in Post.pm? 01:27 <@rizen> why would that be in post.pm 01:27 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-3.adsl.indra.com] has quit [] 01:27 <@rizen> you're editing a post right? 01:28 <@rizen> and you want to have the value of userDefined1 or whatever in a hidden field? 01:28 <@preaction> or the value of it 01:28 <@preaction> that would work 01:28 <@rizen> what i just gave you will do that, you just put it into your template 01:28 <@rizen> the post form template 01:28 <@preaction> but i'm not seeing, in Post.pm, anywhere where that variable is set 01:29 <@preaction> 1153-1179 is where the userDefined field vars are made for the edit form 01:30 <@rizen> sorry..you're right, it's not userDefined1.value 01:30 <@rizen> it's just userDefined1 01:30 <@rizen> and userDefined2 01:30 <@rizen> etc 01:30 <@rizen> the processTemplate() method autoadds all the properties of an asset to the template 01:31 <@rizen> 01:31 <@rizen> so that's what you want 01:31 <@preaction> k 01:32 <@preaction> will that survive a preview? 01:33 <@rizen> no 01:33 <@rizen> well...i don't think so 01:33 <@rizen> i don't know for sure 01:34 <@rizen> the answer is no 01:34 <@rizen> definitely not 01:36 <@preaction> so that won't work, they like the preview function 01:37 <@rizen> on line 1155 add 01:37 <@rizen> $var{'userDefined'.$x} = $userDefined; 01:37 <@preaction> k 01:38 <@rizen> then it will survive preview 01:38 <@rizen> and you can commit that to svn 01:38 <@preaction> k 01:46 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui 02:07 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI 02:49 -!- perlmonkey2 [n=kmurphy@ip70-189-104-178.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 02:51 <@rizen> SDuensin you were asking for me before and i wasn't around 02:51 <@rizen> what's up 02:58 < SDuensin> rizen ! 02:58 < SDuensin> Just was saying "hi". 02:59 < SDuensin> Been working on an ACME entry. 02:59 <@rizen> is it going to rule 02:59 <@rizen> ?? 02:59 <@rizen> it's going to have to rule in order to beat martin's new entry 03:00 < Radix-wrk> and mine! :) 03:00 * Radix-wrk snickers softly. 03:00 < SDuensin> It's... bizarre. 03:01 <@rizen> radix, you don't count 03:01 < Radix-wrk> Aww 03:01 <@rizen> you're not an american...we need someone to represent over here 03:01 < Radix-wrk> lol 03:01 < Radix-wrk> I can do an american accent.. that help? 03:01 <@rizen> i suppose 03:02 <@rizen> if it's any consolation, i'll be rooting for you over martin 03:02 < Radix-wrk> hehe 03:02 <@rizen> just because i don't want his ego to get any bigger 03:02 < SDuensin> hehe 03:02 < Radix-wrk> his hair might get even higher if he does! 03:02 <@rizen> exactly 03:02 < Radix-wrk> think of the poor gell 03:03 < Radix-wrk> sorry.. hair grease 03:03 <@rizen> and he can barely get through the door now 03:03 <@rizen> i mean, we only have 7 foot doors and 8 foot ceilings in the united states 03:03 <@rizen> =) 03:03 * SDuensin is starting to be concerned by the competition. 03:03 < Radix-wrk> lol 03:03 <@preaction> if they go insane, you'll be a shoo-in! 03:04 <@preaction> nerp! bagackle! spoo! 03:08 * SDuensin wants extra points for not knowing Perl! 03:09 < Radix-wrk> You ain't the only one :) 03:50 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has joined #webgui 04:20 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] 04:26 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 04:26 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ 04:32 -!- rizen2 [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 04:32 -!- rizen2 [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:33 -!- rizen2 [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 04:33 -!- rizen2 [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:33 -!- rizen3 [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 04:33 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] 04:34 -!- rizen3 is now known as rizen 04:34 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ 04:35 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:35 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 04:35 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ 05:58 <@preaction> rizen: you still awake/aware/alive? 05:58 <@rizen> never 05:58 <@preaction> damnit 05:59 <@rizen> the good news is that even while asleep/unconcsious/dead i can do more than your average ass clown 05:59 <@rizen> =) 06:00 <@preaction> i'm trying to subclass the collaboration system, i was wondering if i can do a little refactoring? i need to filter Posts by a session scratch variable, where userDefined1 is a JSON array (meaning a custom SQL query to get what Threads I need to display) 06:00 <@preaction> i see what i need to do, i just think it'd be easier in the long run if i refactor the CS a bit 06:00 <@rizen> you can't subsclass the CS...it's not possible 06:00 <@preaction> otherwise i copy/paste and just change what i need 06:00 <@rizen> because the various assets that make up the CS, reference each other by name, and by table name 06:01 <@preaction> table name will stay the same, for all intents and purposes it will be possible to call this a Collaboration system 06:01 <@preaction> except when view() 06:01 <@rizen> if you know of a way to make it subclassable...that would be amazing, cuz i've been trying to figure out how to do it for over a year 06:01 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui 06:01 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 06:02 <@preaction> i'm going to push anyway, because any other solution i can think of (and frank can think of) for doing what needs doing is either impossible or very very very ugly 06:02 <@rizen> push? 06:03 <+perlDreamer> Radix-wrk: is the logging on mentalhouse.net down? 06:03 <@preaction> push, just keep going and damn the torpedoes 06:03 <@preaction> make it work at any cost 06:03 <@rizen> i wish you luck 06:03 <@preaction> i might need it 06:03 <@preaction> are we using an SQL query in the CS for performance? or because getLineage won't work? 06:04 <@rizen> i don't know 06:04 <@rizen> which query 06:04 <@preaction> the one in view() that gets the threadIds we need 06:04 <@rizen> incidentally Post.pm specifically refers to Collaboration.pm by name 3 or 4 times 06:04 <@preaction> crap 06:04 <@rizen> and that's why it's not subclassable 06:04 <@preaction> this might be more fun than first anticipated 06:05 <+perlDreamer> preaction: if you give me a summary of all the new Post variables, I'll document them for you. 06:05 <@rizen> i think we're using the SQL statement as a holdover from pre asset days 06:05 <@rizen> feel free to refactor that into getLineage() 06:06 <+perlDreamer> getLineage rocks 06:06 <@preaction> i see it, and i can change those lines in Post.pm to do proper inheritence processing 06:06 <@preaction> getParent->isa("WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Collaboration") 06:06 <@rizen> Thread also refers to collaboration 06:07 <@rizen> and ::Post 06:07 <@preaction> just the once, and it'll only be the collab that needs subclassing, and that once can also be changed to proper inheritence processing 06:07 -!- khenn [n=fdillon@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #WebGUI 06:07 -!- mode/#webgui [+o khenn] by ChanServ 06:07 <@khenn> evenin 06:07 <+perlDreamer> hey 06:07 <@preaction> from what i'm seeing, it's feasible 06:08 <@preaction> provided, of course, i add no medium-to-large number of clock cycles to the processing time 06:09 <@preaction> i might have to leave the SQL statement as-is for that, i think the paginator does things more efficiently than a getLineage call would (and/or the 7.4 changes to the paginator will speed up efficiency, something that getLineage wouldn't do w/o a hack to the collab system) 06:10 <@rizen> oh right 06:11 <@rizen> that's why we're using the sql query 06:11 <@rizen> because of pagination 06:11 <@preaction> for now, it might be best to create a getThreadsPaginator() method in the CS, and then change those things in the Thread/Post assets to do inheritance checking 06:11 <@rizen> i forgot 06:11 <@khenn> pagination is going to get faster in 7.4 06:12 <@preaction> which means it'll be best to keep using it 06:12 <@preaction> getLineage should never support pagination (imho) 06:12 <+perlDreamer> why not? 06:12 <@preaction> okay, it could 06:12 <@preaction> a "skip" param would work, or "start" or whatever, combined with the "limit" param 06:13 <+perlDreamer> the encapsulation it provides is worth added complexity in the API 06:13 <@preaction> true enough 06:13 <@preaction> would also simplify the CS, at minor expense 06:14 <@preaction> but that'd have to wait 06:15 <+perlDreamer> what are you going to do to the paginator to speed it up? 06:17 <@preaction> the paginator is going to parse the SQL and add a limit clause in the appropriate place 06:17 <@preaction> meaning it'll only process "start + length" rows, instead of getting them all and then returning the right ones 06:18 <@preaction> so if you have 8000 threads, and only want the first 20, it'll only go through 20 rows 06:18 <+perlDreamer> sweet 06:18 <+perlDreamer> getLineage would benefit from that as well 06:20 < Radix-wrk> perlDreamer, I don't belong to a mentalhouse, xdanger does. 06:20 < Radix-wrk> ;) 06:20 <@preaction> it has "limit" now, in addition to lineageLength and lineageDepth (or whatevz) 06:20 <@preaction> but doesn't have any way to specify the start point 06:20 <+perlDreamer> no 06:21 <+perlDreamer> you know I'm a SQL newbie, but what about cursors? 06:21 <@preaction> cursors? 06:22 <+perlDreamer> as I understand it, a cursor is like a smart point that remembers where it was between reads 06:22 <+perlDreamer> maybe you'd need a persistent DBI connection to make it work 06:22 <@preaction> looks like for mysql you need a stored procedure 06:23 <@rizen> cursors aren't very useful in a web environment 06:23 <@rizen> they are hella useful in sql programming 06:23 <@rizen> like stored procedures 06:23 <@rizen> but in a web environement 06:24 <@rizen> you have no idea if you're going to get the same DBI connection from request to request 06:24 <@rizen> so you can't really make use of a cursor 06:24 <+perlDreamer> I see 06:24 <+perlDreamer> you'd have to pool connections and return the same one to each session to make it work 06:24 <@rizen> yeah, and that still doesn't help you 06:24 <@rizen> unless you could only use the dbi connection for that one session 06:25 <@rizen> if the dbi connection could be used for other sessions as well 06:25 <@rizen> then they could theoretically move the cursor 06:25 <+perlDreamer> you know, it's good that I mainly do docs and tests ;) 06:25 <+perlDreamer> and bug fixes 06:25 <@rizen> since pb.com let's you keep the same session for up to 2 weeks 06:25 <@rizen> we have about 25000 open sessions at any given time 06:26 <@rizen> don't know if mysql can even handle that many open connections 06:26 <@rizen> but we have the max set at 1000 in the wre anyway 06:26 <@rizen> =) 06:27 <@rizen> pd, i disagree 06:27 <@rizen> i think you'd be an excellent core dev 06:27 <@rizen> if you ever wanted to tackle it 06:27 <@rizen> khenn on the otherhand doesn't like core dev at all...much prefers to write plugins for webgui 06:28 <+perlDreamer> he's just been out of it for a while 06:28 <@rizen> nope...he really doesn't like it 06:28 <@rizen> he likes the instant gratification of building apps with user interfaces 06:28 <@rizen> rather than system level stuff 06:28 <+perlDreamer> I thought he was into software architecture and stuff like that 06:29 <@rizen> he is 06:29 <@rizen> but focuses on user-centric software design 06:29 <@rizen> integration and systems level stuff aren't as fun for him 06:30 <@rizen> or that's what he tells me 06:30 <@rizen> khenn could probably explain it better than i am 06:31 < Radix-wrk> how many users on pb.com? 06:31 <+perlDreamer> I'll try to chat him up tomorrow 06:31 <@preaction> pd: i'm with rizen, you've been helpful designing APIs 06:31 <@preaction> the calendar work you've done, the WebGUI::DateTime, for examples 06:32 <@rizen> holy crap, i was way off on session count 06:33 <@rizen> it's more like 250,000 06:33 < Radix-wrk> whoah 06:33 <@rizen> current session count: 274499 06:33 <@rizen> current user count: 7932 06:35 <+perlDreamer> gotta crash guys. Tomorrow I have to debug someone else's chip. 06:35 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit [""""] 06:35 <@preaction> that almost sounds fun 06:35 <@preaction> electrical engineering 06:42 < Radix-wrk> Active Sessions: 537 06:42 < Radix-wrk> Users: 4928 06:42 <@rizen> where's that? 06:42 <@rizen> on your site? 06:42 <@rizen> at work 06:42 <@rizen> you probably have a short timeout on your site also, right? 06:46 < Radix-wrk> yeah, work 06:46 < Radix-wrk> 24 hr timeout 06:46 <@rizen> oh wow..that's longer than i would have guessed 06:47 < Radix-wrk> Oh no.. 8 hours 06:47 <@rizen> most of our clients that use it for an intranet have it set to between 1 and 4 06:47 <@rizen> sorry 1 and 8 06:47 < Radix-wrk> Just seems like 24 because that's my working day :) 06:47 <@rizen> yeah 06:48 < Radix-wrk> What I'm confused about is "Groups: 681" 06:49 <@preaction> collab systems create subscription groups, so do threads iirc 06:49 <@rizen> yup 06:49 < Radix-wrk> Ahh k 06:50 < Radix-wrk> that'd blow it out quite a lot then and explain it 06:50 < Radix-wrk> Assets: 4653 is pretty scary too :) 06:51 <@rizen> pb assets: 45367 06:51 < Radix-wrk> yikes :) 06:51 <@rizen> we have clients that blow that out of the water 06:51 < Radix-wrk> What's the largest site you've dealt with? # users/assets/etc? 06:51 <@rizen> in fact, we have one client that has more than 100,000 users and groups...and they have no collaboration systems on their site 06:52 <@rizen> the largest number of assets in a single site, i think is just over 200k 06:53 <@rizen> something interesting to check out is your asset/revision ratio 06:53 < Radix-wrk> how do you calc that? 06:54 <@rizen> pb: 1.5427 06:54 <@rizen> select count from assetData, and divide that with count from asset 06:55 <@rizen> i've seen some that have a ratio > 4 06:55 <@rizen> i think that's just crazy 06:56 <@rizen> you want your ratio to be less than 2 in order to be running an efficient site 06:56 <@rizen> the closer to 1 it is the better 06:58 < Radix-wrk> 3.97 06:58 <@rizen> omg 06:58 <@rizen> that means you have edit crazy users 06:58 < Radix-wrk> yep 06:59 < Radix-wrk> We have everyone in the company editing pages 06:59 <@rizen> they edit, decide that they should have done something else, then make a mistake, then change their minds, etc 06:59 < Radix-wrk> always changing faq's, adding new articles, tweaking things 06:59 <@preaction> would it actually Be more efficient to remove ancient revisions? 07:00 < Radix-wrk> we also have a lot of constantly changing data.. ie. version numbers, links to latest downloads, etc.. 07:00 <@rizen> preaction: yes 07:00 <@rizen> and there is a workflow activity that does that 07:01 <@preaction> that's where i was going 07:01 <@rizen> i forget what the default setting is on that 07:01 < Radix-wrk> delete asset revisions older than a year from the database 07:02 <@rizen> yeah 07:02 <@rizen> we set that lower on plainblack.com 07:02 <@rizen> 90 days 07:03 <@rizen> oh i guess we don't 07:03 < Radix-wrk> I just changed ours to 6 months, but would need to check with management if I set it lower :) 07:03 <@rizen> i thought we changed that...but i was wrong 07:14 -!- khenn [n=fdillon@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] 07:17 <@preaction> rizen: can i add the changes that make the CS subclassable to core? 07:17 <@preaction> inheritable? 07:17 <@preaction> whatever the term 07:19 <@rizen> provided you've thoroughly tested them so that i don't get a single new bug report due to your changes 07:19 <@preaction> so tomorrow after I write some tests 07:19 <@rizen> if you can't guarantee me that, then it needs to wait for 7.4 07:20 <@preaction> tomorrow i'll have a guarantee 08:48 <@preaction> is there a known bug with the CS? replies getting mysteriously duplicated? 08:48 <@rizen> nope 08:49 <@preaction> i've put a stacktrace, and it looks like i'm making posts that get submitted more than once 08:49 <@preaction> the sessions are different 08:49 <@rizen> if you click twice on post it happens 08:49 <@preaction> but i clicked "submit" once 08:49 <@rizen> other than that i haven't seen it 08:49 <@preaction> maybe my compy is magically pressing twice 08:49 <@preaction> this is the only bug i've been able to find 08:49 <@rizen> or if you hit save 08:49 <@rizen> and then hit refresh on the page 08:49 <@rizen> that says "be patient" 08:52 <@preaction> i hit "enter" instead, moved to my tailed log, and it still happened. two different sessions (or rather, two different locations in memory where a session is being stored) 08:56 <@preaction> if i can reproduce without my code changes, since i can only seem to reproduce in ubuntu (not from an OSX firefox outside the dev environment), can we say it's a known bug not related to my code changes? 08:58 <@rizen> if you can reproduce it on a vanilla 7.3.13 install (no modifications or custom code of any kind), then yes 09:07 <@preaction> i'm saying it may be a bug related to having 27000 assets, a sizable navigation array, and thus a long time between request and the response headers, causing the browser to think the request failed (thus, a browser bug) 09:08 <@rizen> doubtful 09:08 <@rizen> plainblack is twice as large as that site 09:10 <@preaction> i've reverted and i can still reproduce. although it is 7.3.10 source. imma try restarting and reproducing again 09:12 <@preaction> i couldn't reproduce with latest SVN, but i might try applying latest SVN to the alumni database that I have and see what happens 09:13 <@rizen> might as well, when we go live it will be on latest 09:18 <@preaction> it still creates duplicates 09:18 <@preaction> going to try some other browsers 09:36 <@preaction> i can only reproduce on firefox 2.0.0.2 under ubuntu. with 7.3.10, 7.3.10 + my patch, and latest SVN 09:37 <@preaction> works fine in konqueror and firefox mac osx 09:38 <@preaction> i'll get back to it tomorrow... 09:59 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:10 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui 13:08 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:45 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@13.sub-75-206-150.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI 14:45 < SDuensin> Good morning 16:02 < ckotil> we had a crack head working for us 16:05 < ckotil> http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=41931 16:07 < SDuensin> Hey ckotil 16:09 < SDuensin> I like this charge: "maintaining a common nuisance" - hell, lock us all up! 16:10 < ckotil> yeah , they couldnt outright charge him with dealing or possesion since he was ratted on 16:10 < ckotil> i bet my coworker winds up dead 16:11 < ckotil> ratting on a crack dealer is bad news 16:11 * SDuensin can just see 'em "sittin' on the Group W bench" for causing a nuisance. 16:13 < SDuensin> Our main problem around St. Louis is meth. Usually find the labs when they blow up. 16:14 < ckotil> ya 16:21 -!- bopbop [n=kristi@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 17:30 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has joined #webgui 17:30 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 17:34 <+perlDreamer> preaction: check this out: http://search.cpan.org/~ssoriche/Test-Output-0.10/lib/Test/Output.pm 17:34 <+perlDreamer> STDOUT capturing goodness for tests! 17:41 -!- mode/#webgui [+o bopbop] by rizen 17:42 <@bopbop> I am woman, hear me roar! 17:42 < ckotil> wow, female irc user 17:42 < ckotil> welcome 17:43 < SDuensin> Hello bopbop 17:43 <@bopbop> hi 17:46 <+perlDreamer> greetings, Duchess of Documentation 17:46 <@bopbop> awww 17:46 <@bopbop> warm and fuzzy 17:47 < SDuensin> Docs are Good. We LIKE Docs! 17:47 <@rizen> perldreamer: TjeCC 17:48 <@rizen> you want me to give him karma, for what exactly? 17:48 < SDuensin> Morning, rizen 17:48 <+perlDreamer> remember how I was saying that the display logic for the calendar needed to be rewritten 17:48 <@rizen> morning sd 17:48 <+perlDreamer> DateTime::Set and all that? 17:48 <@rizen> yes 17:48 <+perlDreamer> TjeCC gave us a 4 line patch to do the same thing 17:48 <+perlDreamer> no new modules 17:48 <+perlDreamer> very fast 17:49 <+perlDreamer> see my commit from last night for code 17:49 <@rizen> sweet 17:49 <@rizen> and you think he deserves 1 billion karma for that? 17:49 <@rizen> 1 billion seems a bit steep 17:49 <+perlDreamer> how about a kilokarma? 17:50 <+perlDreamer> reporting a bug and giving a significant patch 17:50 < SDuensin> Nobody has ever answered me. What good is karma? 17:50 <+perlDreamer> Karma is good for getting your RFEs to the top of the list and having PB implement them 17:50 < SDuensin> Ah. Nice. 17:50 <+perlDreamer> see the karma page on PB.com for future possibilities 17:50 <+perlDreamer> plainblack.com/karma 17:51 * SDuensin tends to use /usr/bin/perl to get things implemented. 17:51 <+perlDreamer> rizen: you could consider a quarter kilokarma 17:51 <+perlDreamer> but alliteration would drive us nuts 17:52 <@rizen> he just received a kilokarma 17:53 <+perlDreamer> I need to build that RFE transferer 17:54 <+perlDreamer> thank you, rizen 17:54 <+perlDreamer> we have enough perl hackers in the community that stuff like this should happen more often 17:55 * SDuensin is trying. 17:55 <@rizen> TjeCC is a client and hacker that plainblack / webgui picked up about a year ago from one of my speaking engagements 17:56 <+perlDreamer> cool 17:56 <@rizen> i spoke about WebGUI at Uniforum's PerlSIG 17:56 <+perlDreamer> that's right 17:56 <+perlDreamer> you doing the lecture circuit again this year? yapc, etc? 17:56 <@rizen> nope...mainly cuz i don't have anything significant to talk about 17:56 <@rizen> last year it was webgui 7 17:57 <@rizen> and i hoped to have commerce finished this year so i'd be able to talk about that 17:57 <@rizen> but it will have to wait until next year 17:57 <+perlDreamer> mars needs women/wG needs hackers? 17:57 <@rizen> i'm not the kind of guy that can talk about the same old boring crap time and time again 17:57 <@rizen> that's why this year's WUC is so different from previous years 17:57 <@rizen> i was so sick of giving the same talks 17:58 <@rizen> even my State of WebGUI is going to be significantly different 18:02 * SDuensin could do that one... State of WebGUI == Awesome! 18:04 <+perlDreamer> If you like State of wG, you should see him in the sequel, Stump the Chump 18:05 <@rizen> that's really a horrible name for that session 18:05 <@preaction> it fits 18:05 < SDuensin> hehe 18:05 <@rizen> it's not about stumping me 18:06 <@rizen> it's about getting questions answered 18:06 <@rizen> that weren't answered during the rest of the WUC 18:06 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI Town Hall 18:08 -!- AMH_mari [n=mari@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"] 18:15 <@rizen> that's a better name 18:15 <@rizen> at least more descriptive of what goes on there 18:15 <@rizen> i still say that "One on one with the Great One" is the best name 18:20 < ckotil> how about inquire the sire 18:22 <@preaction> as if the ego needs more stroking 18:22 < ckotil> add a qu and you get squire 18:22 < ckotil> that will knock him down a coulpe pegs 18:22 < ckotil> better rhyming scheme too 18:23 <@preaction> can't knock him down too far though, he has to handle MrHairgrease for the rest of us 18:23 <+perlDreamer> well, if MrHairgrease is Eurohunk, then rizen is .... 18:24 <+perlDreamer> MichiganMan 18:24 <@bopbop> AmerisStud? 18:24 <+perlDreamer> ? 18:25 <@bopbop> Eurohunk...Ameristud 18:26 <+perlDreamer> Ameristud is better than MichiganMan. 18:26 <+perlDreamer> MichiganMan makes me think of MichelinMan 18:26 <+perlDreamer> and JT looks bad in white bandages 18:26 < ckotil> heh 18:26 <@preaction> rizen: my testing for my code (changes to the CS to make it inheritable) left me with this: the only bugs that I can make only occur on FF 2.0.0.2 for Ubuntu, and occur in latest SVN, 7.3.10 w/o my changes, and 7.3.10 w/ my changes 18:27 <@preaction> given all that, i believe it's not my code, and is in fact the browser making multiple POST requests in a random fashion (or by the phases of the moon perhaps) 18:28 < SDuensin> Ever use FireBug? Great for tracking down what the browser is up to. 18:29 < ckotil> i use it 18:29 < ckotil> <3 it 18:30 <@preaction> SDuensin: the problem is that when that browser posts a reply to a collab system thread, the reply shows up twice. a stacktrace reveals that it's the same methods being called from the same places but with different sessions, meaning (I think) that they're different requests 18:31 <@preaction> only seems to happen with a very large database and a very large navigation, creating a largish delay between POST and the server's response 18:31 < SDuensin> Hmm. Sounds like a fun one to find. :-/ 18:32 <@preaction> i spent four hours on it last night, and came up with nothing. i can only reproduce on that browser 18:33 <@preaction> and when rizen gets back from whatever he's doing, i can have him confirm that it's not my changes and i can move forward on the client project 18:33 <@preaction> (since, i'm now 100% sure that it is not my changes causing this idiosyncracy) 18:50 <+perlDreamer> is it the helpful browser prefetch going on? 18:51 < xdanger> prefetch is the invention of the devil! 18:51 <@preaction> why would it prefetch a POST response? with the correct data? 18:51 <+perlDreamer> I don't know, but that URL is stored in memory. If you did a page reload, it would resend the POST data 18:52 <+perlDreamer> try setting up HTTP::Proxy and watching what the browser sends 18:52 <+perlDreamer> and when 19:22 <@preaction> using tcpdump, it seems that one POST happens, and then 9 seconds later a different POST happens 19:23 <@preaction> it wasn't spectre, since spectre connects on a different port 19:28 <+perlDreamer> this is on your dev box? (which means the IP of the referrer won't mean much) 19:29 <@preaction> i'm dumping the entire TCP packet now, before i was just getting the bare minimum of the HTTP header 19:30 * perlDreamer continues to murmur browser prefetch under my breath 19:41 <@preaction> tcpdump confirms, the browser is sending two POST requests 19:41 <+perlDreamer> evil, accursed thing! 20:05 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #webgui 20:05 < cga> hi all 20:06 <@preaction> hello cga 20:07 < cga> ciao preaction , i'm evaluating webgui for my site (i'm using another CMS atm) , i find it very comlete and pw0nn1n9 (sorry for leet) 20:08 < cga> preaction, are you into plainback? 20:08 <@preaction> i'm currently employed by them, yes 20:09 < cga> nice, you ight help then, i have few questions 20:09 <@preaction> feel free to ask, if anyone here can answer, they will 20:09 < cga> what about the virtual hosting? how much control i have on it and what is required? 20:09 < cga> cool 20:10 < cga> if you have FAqs just FAQ me 20:11 < cga> FYI: i'm looking at features , howtos and something else atm , i'll read about hosting virtual server later, but if you can answer that'll be good 20:13 <@preaction> https://www.plainblack.com/services/hosting 20:13 < cga> cool and thanks && oh BTW how much W3C compliant is webgui? 20:14 <@preaction> the standard style03 that comes with WebGUI is XHTML 1.1 / CSS 20:14 < cga> i'm looking for W3C WAI CSS (X)HTML (depending on the one generated by webgui) and ANY 20:14 < cga> cool , what about others? 20:14 <@preaction> valid, even if the mime-type is wrong 20:14 <@preaction> others? that depends on where you get it from, or if you build it yourself it'd depend on your prowess 20:15 < cga> well others are WAI and ANY 20:15 < cga> 8for the ones i look for) 20:15 < cga> s/8/( 20:15 < cga> ok i need to know more by rading and trying webgui 20:16 < cga> *reafing 20:16 < cga> damn typos.. 20:16 < cga> reading 20:16 <@preaction> WebGUI by default is Section 508 compliant, which is the US Goverment's version of WAI 20:17 <@preaction> i can't find the "ANY" acronym on google 20:17 < cga> is not an acronym 20:17 < cga> is ANY browser 20:17 < cga> i read that it supports the main vbrowser + some textiual ones. which is all i should care of.. but ANY is good. what about it? 20:18 < SDuensin> WebGUI's output is entirely template based. You can make it output anything you want. 20:18 <@preaction> firefox and IE are supported for admins, other browsers aren't supported for admin, but afaik work on every non-admin page (with graceful degredation for things like the TinyMCE) 20:19 < cga> oh sorry.. my fault.. i ment ANY for viewing browsers 20:19 < SDuensin> That's only because of the theme used on the admin page. If you removed some of the fancyness, it'd work fine in other browsers, too. 20:19 <@preaction> i believe the main hurdle is the TinyMCE, and that gracefully degrades 20:19 <@preaction> much of it hinges on your HTML/CSS 20:19 < cga> tinymce is nice , the cms i use now uses it 20:20 < SDuensin> Yup. It turns into a nice textbox if the browser doesn't understand it. 20:20 * SDuensin shoots an evil glance at Safari 20:20 < cga> FYI: i'm not a webdsesigner or whatever.. that's why i use a CMS , sorry if i dson't understnd dsomew of the things you say. 20:20 <@preaction> actually, iirc, latest webkit builds finally support the tinyMCE 20:21 < SDuensin> preaction - has that made it into a Safari build yet? 20:21 < SDuensin> cga - Basically, in a nutshell, if the code you put in to WebGUI is compliant, what comes out will be compliant. 20:21 <@preaction> SDuensin: i think, i don't know. 20:21 < SDuensin> (Or, if you're like me, and feed it horrible CSS, what comes out is horrible CSS!) 20:21 < cga> SDuensin, you said about putput of webgui and templates. that's one thing i don't understand for my n00bsness. can you explain please? 20:22 < cga> SDuensin, cool about compiance 20:23 < SDuensin> Everything WebGUI "renders" is done through templates. You can edit (or create new) the template files to change how they look. If the HTML you put in the templates is compliant, what comes out will be, too. 20:23 < SDuensin> WebGUI really doesn't create anything of it's own. It assembles templates and data. 20:24 < cga> oh i see , it seems more difficult than i tought 20:24 < SDuensin> Not really. Most of what you need is already included. :-) 20:24 <@bopbop> cga: have you looked at the demo site yet? 20:24 < SDuensin> WebGUI takes some effort to learn, but believe me - it's worth it. 20:24 <@bopbop> you can test out webgui for free for 24 hours and see all this in action 20:25 < cga> not yet. i just landed on the site and i'm reading other things, i wanna try the demo later 20:25 <@bopbop> I think the template thing will be more apparent then 20:25 < SDuensin> Yea, the demo is cool. It's a fully-working site that you can do anything to. 20:25 < cga> i think so too 20:25 <@bopbop> when in admin mode, click on an asset's Edit button on its toolbar, go to the display tab and you'll see edit buttons next to anything that's a template (style, etc) 20:26 < SDuensin> I used to run WebGUI for everything. Then I was stupid and switched because my new host didn't run WebGUI... 20:26 < SDuensin> Now I'm working to be my own host and WebGUI is coming back strong! 20:27 < cga> ok bopbop , i'll do it later , thanks 20:27 < cga> SDuensin, what i want to do is to take hosting on plainback if it sin't too expesive and let them take care of the hoisting issues, i reall y don't know nothing about it 20:28 < cga> even if i'd like to learn but i'm really busy with other things 20:28 < SDuensin> Only reason I don't use PlainBlack for hosting is that I need to run a lot of odd stuff. :-) 20:29 < cga> well i have only the site atm so it's perfect to migrate everything (beside i can have a blog with webgui and other things) 20:30 < cga> it seems just perfect for what i have in mind 20:32 < SDuensin> I've not run into anything it can't do. Some things take a bit of tweaking, but it sure beats doing it by hand. 20:32 * cga goes back to reafing on webgui's site and thanks you for your kind answers and time 20:33 < cga> i'm sure i'll learn quickly once i understand how it works 20:36 < SDuensin> Play with the demo. Read the online help. 20:37 <@preaction> http://wiki.webgui.org <- a lot of stuff there too 20:39 < cga> cool thanks 21:35 <@preaction> if I do a joinClass in getLineage, wouldn't that be more easily inheritable than includeOnlyClasses? 21:36 <@preaction> say, a WebGUI::Asset::Event has a subclass. if I joinClass on WebGUI::Asset::Event, i'll only get assets that have an assetId in WebGUI::Asset::Event's tables 21:36 <@preaction> no? 21:37 <+perlDreamer> you need to ask someone who understands SQL 21:39 <@preaction> i'm sure i can edit the SQL in getLineage that would make what I'm asking true 21:39 <@preaction> if it doesn't already 21:40 <@preaction> with that, and a grep through the codebase to get rid of all the "if $asset->{className} eq 'something'" and change it to a proper inheritance check, we can have much more flexible assets 21:43 <+perlDreamer> I like that 21:43 <+perlDreamer> Do you know how to tell spectre to dequeue a workflow activity? 21:43 <@preaction> remove an instance? 21:43 <+perlDreamer> yes 21:44 <@preaction> i know of no way except through manual database hack-and-slash 21:44 <+perlDreamer> hmmmm 21:45 <+perlDreamer> sounds like we need to add some API to spectre then 21:45 <+perlDreamer> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/collaboration-system-not-deleting-getcsmail-workflows#_8kYyR3xZywO4b0KnP4r6w 21:45 <+perlDreamer> odds are that more bugs like this exist in the system 21:45 <+perlDreamer> the CS deletes the Cron job on purge, but probably does not dequeue them from spectre 21:45 <@preaction> that would explain some things 21:46 <+perlDreamer> Spectre::Cron does have a deleteJob method 21:46 <+perlDreamer> now, what does it need to be called with 21:47 <+perlDreamer> and would it be better to communicate with Spectre directly, rather than yanking its pants off without warning 21:48 <@preaction> if you remove it from workflowInstance, does that remove it from spectre? 21:49 <+perlDreamer> I don't know 21:49 <+perlDreamer> ....yet :) 21:50 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI::Workflow::Instance::deleteJob looks promising 21:55 <+perlDreamer> ah, and that's how you communicate with Spectre directly 21:55 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI::Workflow::Spectre->new($self->session)->notify("workflow/deleteInstance",$self->getId) 21:57 <+perlDreamer> preaction: you're basically right 21:57 <+perlDreamer> there's an API for removing instances 21:57 <+perlDreamer> but there's no way to fetch a particular instance 21:57 <+perlDreamer> based on criteria 21:58 <+perlDreamer> basically, getLineage for instances does not exist 21:58 <+perlDreamer> but you can get them all and then iterate over them 21:58 <+perlDreamer> Workflow::Instance->getAllInstances() 21:59 <+perlDreamer> so all that's left is identification 22:04 < cap10morgan> when you add a new workflow activity module in lib, do you have to manually an entry for it in the WorkflowActivity table? 22:05 <@rizen> it only goes into the WorkflowActivity table if it is to be made part of an existing workflow 22:05 <@rizen> otherwise you just reference it in your config file 22:05 <@rizen> and then people can build it into their workflows however they wish 22:05 <@rizen> through the ui 22:05 < cap10morgan> ah, ok 22:05 < cap10morgan> duh, that makes sense 22:05 <@rizen> and no matter what, you don't make an entry in WorkflowActivity yourself 22:06 <@rizen> you use the API to do it 22:06 < cap10morgan> gotcha, thanks jt 22:06 <@rizen> if you have to 22:46 <+perlDreamer> rizen: in WebGUI::Workflow::Cron->delete, should skipNotify skip notifying spectre, or should it force notifying spectre? 22:48 <@rizen> anywhere you see "skipNotifiy" then it should skip notification...it's not a sarcastic function 22:48 <@rizen> =) 22:49 <+perlDreamer> that makes sense 22:49 <+perlDreamer> I'll just reverse the logic then, and this should fix Frank's bug 22:49 <+perlDreamer> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/collaboration-system-not-deleting-getcsmail-workflows#_8kYyR3xZywO4b0KnP4r6w 22:49 <+perlDreamer> need to go look for my wallet, be back in a while 22:58 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@13.sub-75-206-150.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:59 -!- bopbop [n=kristi@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has left #webgui [] 23:08 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has left #webgui ["90% of the problems that people have with GNU/Linux are to impute to Windows."] --- Day changed Sat Mar 24 2007 00:06 <@preaction> rizen: using a tcpdump i've proven that the browser is actually sending two POST requests, so i am 100% confident that it does not introduce any bugs into the CS. it's not a full solution to complete subclassing for all parts of the CS, but the Collaboration itself can be subclassed 00:06 <@rizen> cool 00:09 <@preaction> can i add to core then? 00:21 <+perlDreamer> preaction, so you think we should do Calendar permissions #1? That's cool be me 00:21 <@preaction> personally, i don't see any reason why you would have a group that can edit the calendar and NOT add events to it 00:22 <@preaction> instead, might need the Calendar to edit the groups of all children Events when the Calendar permissions get edited, like the collab system does it 00:23 <@preaction> but wait, that could still give erik's bug 00:24 <+perlDreamer> it would be better to do #2, IMO, but you're the architect 00:25 <@preaction> yes, it would 00:25 <@preaction> didn't know what you meant by "adding groups" 00:26 <@preaction> so a person can add an event if and only if they are a member of groupIdEventEdit 00:27 <+perlDreamer> maybe I should do a quick check on the CS to see how it works 00:27 <@preaction> i think i meant a previous bug, where the groupIdEdit for Events wasn't being set properly 00:28 <+perlDreamer> that bug was fixed 00:28 <+perlDreamer> on the CS, you can add posts if you're in the CS editGroup 00:29 <+perlDreamer> and you canedit if you're in the editGroup 00:29 <+perlDreamer> so #1 it is 00:30 <+perlDreamer> um 00:30 <+perlDreamer> it's set up to do that already 00:30 <+perlDreamer> return $session->user->isInGroup($self->getParent->get("groupIdEventEdit")) or $self->SUPER::canEdit; 00:30 <+perlDreamer> Is this a precedence bug? 00:30 <+perlDreamer> return(this) or that? 00:31 <@preaction> no, nevermind, i'm losing it 00:32 <+perlDreamer> I need to test this. I'm like 60% sure this is a precedence bug due to the or operator 00:33 <@preaction> it's possible, but the last statement of a sub is the value implicitly returned, so it might just be confusing / unmaintainable 00:48 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"] 01:34 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui 01:34 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 01:34 <+perlDreamer> preaction: I found the bug. 01:34 <+perlDreamer> Event inherits editSave from Asset.pm 01:35 <@preaction> which it should? 01:35 <+perlDreamer> yes 01:35 <+perlDreamer> hm 01:40 <+perlDreamer> no 01:40 <+perlDreamer> it should not 01:40 <+perlDreamer> Event->canEdit should just return $self->parent->canAddEvent 01:44 <@preaction> will that work? 01:53 <+perlDreamer> I don't know 01:54 <+perlDreamer> it doesn't appear to be calling Event's canEdit, but Calendar's instead 01:54 <+perlDreamer> I'm still tracing and checking 01:54 <@preaction> when you're adding an event, it calls calendar's canEdit 01:54 <@preaction> when your editing an event, it calls the event's canEdit 01:54 <+perlDreamer> I was able to add an event as the owner of the calendar 01:55 <+perlDreamer> when I edit an event, it shows me the form but will not let me save 01:55 <@preaction> weird 02:05 <+perlDreamer> it's probably me 02:05 <+perlDreamer> I'm tired 02:44 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has left #webgui [] 03:04 <+perlDreamer> preaction, just for future reference, I opened up a demo site in another tab and was trying to change local dev code while reloading the demo site 03:09 <+perlDreamer> rizen: I think I did a booboo. 03:10 <+perlDreamer> erik svanberg asked for a priority bug fix 03:10 <+perlDreamer> I didn't know that nik was working on it 03:10 <+perlDreamer> it's fixed 03:31 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI 05:18 <+perlDreamer> it's real quiet tonight 06:14 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:24 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 06:24 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 07:03 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [] 07:18 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has quit [] 08:18 -!- wgGuest08 [n=wgGuest0@cp47104-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has joined #webgui 08:19 -!- wgGuest08 [n=wgGuest0@cp47104-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 14:46 -!- Radix__ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has quit ["Windows doesn't have users, it has hostages."] 14:47 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has joined #webgui 14:49 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:49 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has joined #webgui 14:49 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has quit [Client Quit] 14:50 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has joined #webgui 14:51 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:51 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has joined #webgui 15:55 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #webgui 17:46 -!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@ip70-189-104-178.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #webgui 18:15 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui 18:15 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 19:17 -!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@ip70-189-104-178.ok.ok.cox.net] has left #webgui [] 19:32 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 19:32 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 19:48 <+perlDreamer> preaction! 19:48 <+perlDreamer> good to see you 19:48 <@rizen> what, i'm chppped liver? 19:48 <@preaction> perlDreamer: how's it going 19:48 <+perlDreamer> I've been lying in wait for preaction 19:48 <+perlDreamer> can we talk about the calendar? 19:49 <+perlDreamer> and then rizen can stomp on my theories and tell us really how to fix it? 19:49 <@rizen> if you prefeer, i can just ignore you. =) 19:49 <@rizen> then i don't have to crush your hopes and dreams 19:50 <+perlDreamer> I don't consider it crushing, it usually aligns them with reality again 19:50 <@preaction> ask forth your question! 19:50 <+perlDreamer> what is the recurrence start date for? 19:51 <+perlDreamer> why is it different from the event start date? 19:52 <@preaction> i believe it was because we decided that MS Outlook's handling of recurrence, and they include a startDate iirc 19:53 <@preaction> i'm still half-tempted to remove it and just assume "startDate" to be the first occurance of the event 19:53 <+perlDreamer> that's what I would do 19:53 <+perlDreamer> in fact, I think the recurrence bugs that we've been seeing on the board are all caused by having both dates there 19:54 <+perlDreamer> so removing it makes it easier to use and closes the bugs 19:56 <@rizen> pd: check this out: http://video.google.com/url?docid=2940794006585194361&esrc=sr2&ev=v&q=irack&vidurl=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DKM_MkWgbt3k&usg=AL29H20Obe15ULRN-lON_ivaBT5b_8ea-A 20:00 <+perlDreamer> http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2007-03-04-1.html 20:00 <@preaction> i think the problem we faced was altering the recurrence pattern in an event far into the recurrence pattern 20:01 <@preaction> if you leave the end after # events the same, it'll create a whole slew of them past 20:03 <+perlDreamer> I don't follow you, preaction. 20:05 <+perlDreamer> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/event-calendar-date-start/finish-field-not-working-correctly-with-individual-and-re-occuring-events#Q4evFF9cDBj0nm7-i-icnw 20:05 <+perlDreamer> read that 20:08 <@preaction> removing it would make it simpler 20:09 <@preaction> i'd still like to benchmark what a 7-day recurring event takes to instanciate either (7 assets, or a single DateTime::Event::iCal) 20:11 <+perlDreamer> if DateTime::Event::iCal was used, would it still create 7 event assets? 20:14 <@preaction> no, we'd just check each DateTime::Event::iCal to see if it occurs on the day, and then add the Event to that day in the template 20:15 <+perlDreamer> at first glance, it should be faster to create events, but slower render them 20:16 <+perlDreamer> but like rizen has said, DateTime::Set operations may be so fast we'd never see the slower part 20:16 <@preaction> it's something we might have to use WebGUI::Test::getPage to test properly 20:17 <+perlDreamer> did you see that note I left you about Test::Output? 20:17 <+perlDreamer> it may be easier than doing the tie'ing that we've been doing 20:18 <+perlDreamer> or it may just wrap it in a convenient sub 20:18 <@preaction> if we just point $session->output to STDIN, make sure the session doesn't send the http headers (because loading Apache2::Cookie kills the tests), it might be much nicely 20:19 <+perlDreamer> yes 20:19 <+perlDreamer> Were you thinking of working on converting Event to using DT::E::iCal? If so, I can start trying to duplicate the other bugs and see if we still have them or not 20:19 <@preaction> WebGUI::Test->session could set the appropriate session->http->noHeader or whatever 20:19 <+perlDreamer> yes 20:20 <@preaction> that conversion might be part of my vacation in a few weeks, there are 3-4 more-than-minor things i think the calendar needs 20:20 <+perlDreamer> or we could start mocking Apache2::Cookie 20:20 <@preaction> could we change to use CGI::Cookie? 20:21 <+perlDreamer> what advantage does that have? 20:21 <+perlDreamer> and what else do you want to do to the calendar? 20:22 <@preaction> CGI::Cookie has a far smaller memory footprint (which is why using a2Cookie fails) 20:22 <@preaction> it segfaults 20:23 <@preaction> 1) Feed updates need to be a sub in the Calendar instead of being completely in the workflow activity 20:23 <@preaction> 2) Events that recur should all be created under a single version tag, and then that tag should be committed 20:24 <@preaction> 3) number (2) should happen asynchronously, firing off a spectre workflow to perform it 20:24 <+perlDreamer> but the move to iCal overrides anything you'd do in 2 & 3 20:24 <+perlDreamer> since there is only 1 event created 20:24 <@preaction> true enough 20:25 <+perlDreamer> but I like 1 a lot 20:25 <@preaction> 1 will allow for the AJAX feed updating in the Calendar > Edit Form > Feeds Tab that I wanted originally 20:25 <@preaction> click a button, and the feed gets updated 20:30 <+perlDreamer> using DT::E::iCal is also going to make getEventsIn more difficult 20:31 <@preaction> might actually be simpler, join the _recur table, and use _recur.startDate and _recur.endDate 20:31 <+perlDreamer> ooh 20:31 <+perlDreamer> I hadn't thought of that 20:31 <@preaction> might not be able to use getLineage anymore though 20:31 <+perlDreamer> you can still use getLIneage to get your own events 20:32 <@preaction> i don't think getLineage can do arbitrary joins (but it would probably be a nice feature) 20:34 <+perlDreamer> hm 20:34 <+perlDreamer> still not reaching calendar clarity 20:34 <+perlDreamer> maybe I'll try to duplicate the existing bugs to see if they still exist 20:34 <+perlDreamer> the bug list needs to be shorter 20:34 <@preaction> indeed 20:35 <+perlDreamer> but we also need to fix Iraq and stop emissions 20:35 <+perlDreamer> what a world 22:33 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:38 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui 23:38 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ --- Day changed Sun Mar 25 2007 00:17 <+perlDreamer> rizen: can I use PB to test a patch for this bug? 00:17 <+perlDreamer> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/wrong-location-after-login#1gVCQqlv41L9gQ3kv4Eg-g 00:18 <@rizen> how are you using PB to test the patch? 00:18 <@rizen> are you saying you want to give me a patch? 00:18 <@rizen> and i'll install it 00:19 <+perlDreamer> yes 00:19 <@rizen> ok, sure 00:19 <@rizen> you wanna email it to me, or is it available somewhere? 00:19 <@rizen> svn 00:19 <@rizen> ? 00:19 <+perlDreamer> sure, svn would be great. 00:19 <@rizen> ok 00:19 <+perlDreamer> I'll commit it and tell you the commit # 00:20 <+perlDreamer> 3926 00:20 <@rizen> it doesn't have any db changes, right? 00:20 <+perlDreamer> no 00:20 <+perlDreamer> 1 line perl fix to Auth.pm 00:20 <+perlDreamer> forces wG to always set redirectAfterLogin each time Auth is called, unless redirectAfterLogin contains a URL with an operation 00:21 <@rizen> done 00:21 <@rizen> give it a shot 00:23 <+perlDreamer> it works! 00:23 <+perlDreamer> -1 bug 00:24 <+perlDreamer> thanks, man! 00:26 <@rizen> wahooo 00:26 <@rizen> no no, thank you 00:29 <+perlDreamer> you're welcome 00:30 <+perlDreamer> the bug list is driving me crazy 00:30 <@rizen> i'm having nik cut his teeth by fixing bugs 00:30 <+perlDreamer> I hope I didn't step on his toes last night 00:30 <@preaction> we poor herbivores 00:30 <+perlDreamer> insectivore? 00:31 <@rizen> no biggie 00:33 <@rizen> once i can see him single handedly managing the bug list 00:33 <@rizen> i think i'll know he's ready for prime time 00:33 <@rizen> then he should be able to do support and client projects 00:33 <+perlDreamer> do you want me to back off and let him handle more of them, for training purposes? 00:33 <@rizen> that should take a few weeks, and then i'll have to start the process all over with a new person 00:34 <@rizen> cuz we really need another 00:34 <@rizen> there's plenty out there for him to do, and i'm sure plenty more will be reported, so feel free to keep working on them 00:34 <+perlDreamer> okay 00:34 <@rizen> but if you do see any that you think would be particularly good for him to tackle from a learning perspective 00:34 <@rizen> do feel free to point them out to him 00:35 <@rizen> nik@plainblack.com 00:35 <@rizen> i knew we had some bugs after going through 6.x, but i just never realized it was as bad as it is 00:36 <@rizen> we've fixed several hundred bugs in the 7.3 releases alone 00:36 <@rizen> granted, part of that was preaction cutting his teeth on the calendar app 00:37 <+perlDreamer> okay, I've just found one 00:37 <+perlDreamer> I think the time calculations in the Group system are completely off 00:37 <@rizen> incidentally, i hope to be putting out WRE 0.1.1 for windows tomorrow, and that will clear off all the WRE windows problems 00:38 <+perlDreamer> sweet 00:38 <+perlDreamer> that will clear about 5 bugs? 00:38 <@rizen> yup 00:38 <@rizen> plus 2 that i've already closed 00:47 < SDuensin> Hey gang 00:47 <+perlDreamer> what's up SD? 00:47 < SDuensin> Had a question and need some guidance... 00:48 <+perlDreamer> Don't we all... 00:48 < SDuensin> I have a macro that is going to generate a PNG stream. How do I get WebGUI to display that? 00:48 <+perlDreamer> set the mime type to be image/png 00:48 <@preaction> make a snippet that runs the macro and set the correct mimetype 00:49 < SDuensin> So if I do the snippit thing, then I only need to send back the PNG data? No headers? 00:49 <+perlDreamer> no headers 00:50 <@rizen> that won't work 00:50 <@preaction> you can't call a macro from a URL, so it has to be contained in something 00:50 <@rizen> what you want to do is have the macro output the file into WebGUI::Storage tempspace 00:50 <@rizen> and then have the macro return the URL 00:50 <@rizen> or an image tag with the URL 00:51 < SDuensin> Got any pointers of what to look at that does that so I can learn how? 00:52 <+perlDreamer> you could try the captcha generator in Auth 00:53 <+perlDreamer> Poll graphic generator (which uses WebGUI::Image) 00:53 < SDuensin> WebGUI::Image? Maybe I should just be using that? (Currently I'm using PerlMagick.) 00:54 <+perlDreamer> I'd look into it 00:54 <+perlDreamer> if it doesn't do what you want, you can always extend it 00:54 <+perlDreamer> It provides a way to make nice graphics on top of Image::Magick/PerlMagick 00:54 < SDuensin> Um. Sure. Did I mention I suck at Perl? 00:55 <+perlDreamer> dude, if you can code macros, then you can do this 00:55 < SDuensin> :-) 00:55 <+perlDreamer> plus you have all of us on IRC to back you up 00:55 <+perlDreamer> we wouldn't hang you out to dry 00:55 <+perlDreamer> "Go and reinvent OO. See you in the morning" 00:55 <+perlDreamer> :P 00:55 < SDuensin> Ok, I'm going to go read the API docs for a bit. I don't want to miss the ACME deadline! 00:56 <+perlDreamer> rizen: I sent nik the top bug from the list. 00:57 <@rizen> yeah, i saw that 00:58 <@rizen> my $image = WebGUI::Storage::Image->createTemp($session); 00:58 <@rizen> $image->addFileFrom.....($whatever); 00:58 <@rizen> $image->getUrl($filename); 01:01 < SDuensin> Thanks, rizen - Reading about all those calls now. 01:02 < SDuensin> Does that file get cleaned up when the session expires? 01:03 <@rizen> no..sometime later, by the workflow engine 01:03 <@rizen> i think by default it lasts for 6 hours in temp space 01:03 < SDuensin> Ok, as long as I don't need to do it. 01:15 < SDuensin> How's this look? (Sorry, pastebin is dead right now.) 01:15 < SDuensin> my $image = WebGUI::Image->new($session, width, height); 01:15 < SDuensin> my $magick = $image->image(); 01:15 < SDuensin> -- Draw on $magick here -- 01:15 < SDuensin> my $store = WebGUI::Storage::Image->createTemp($session); 01:15 < SDuensin> $image->setFilename($filename); 01:15 < SDuensin> $image->saveToStorageLocation($store); 01:15 < SDuensin> $store->getURL($filename); 01:16 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: paste? 01:16 < perlbot> Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it. 01:16 < SDuensin> k 01:16 <+perlDreamer> preaction: did gooeybot go bits up? 01:17 < SDuensin> How does it know what kind of image to create? Based on filename? Or does it always make JPGs/GIFs/PNGs/whatever? 01:18 < SDuensin> Code repasted: http://sial.org/pbot/23760 01:18 <+perlDreamer> I would guess by filename 01:18 < SDuensin> So does that code look right? Or am I insane? 01:19 <+perlDreamer> getURL => getUrl 01:19 <+perlDreamer> aside from that, it looks fine 01:19 < SDuensin> Sweet. I might make it into the ACME contest yet! 01:20 < SDuensin> Ok, here's a sick question. I have two small packages I use in my code. Any way to roll them into my single source file so people don't have to get them from CPAN to run this? 01:20 <+perlDreamer> are they pure perl? 01:20 < SDuensin> Yes. 01:20 <+perlDreamer> do you really need them? 01:21 < SDuensin> Oh yea. 01:21 <+perlDreamer> try pasting the contents into your macro wholesale, so that there are 3 package declarations in the file. 01:22 <+perlDreamer> btw, this is not recommended for typical perl programming 01:22 <+perlDreamer> this is just for ACME hacking goodness 01:22 < SDuensin> No, I know it's a Bad Idea (tm). 01:22 < SDuensin> And if this was anything but a quick hack for ACME, I wouldn't even consider it. 01:22 <+perlDreamer> so if you know all this perl, why do you say you suck? 01:23 < SDuensin> Because I have to look every frickin' thing up! 01:23 < SDuensin> I'm a very fluent programmer. Needing to look up the syntax of "for" loops makes me feel dumb. :-) 01:24 < SDuensin> Never fear! I plan on adding Perl to my list of "comfortable" languages just as soon as I can! 01:25 <+perlDreamer> I see, you're just not a native speaker. 01:25 < SDuensin> Right. :-) 01:27 <+perlDreamer> Time for me to switch from WebGUI Hacker to Daddy mode. I'll be back later. 01:27 < SDuensin> I just switched the other direction. :-) 01:27 < SDuensin> See ya, perlDreamer ! 01:31 < SDuensin> When you install the WRE and it asks if this is a development system, exactly what does saying "Yes" change? 01:31 <@rizen> it installs all kinds of viruses and worms on your system 01:32 < SDuensin> SWEET! 04:05 -!- wgGuest21 [n=wgGuest2@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui 04:06 -!- wgGuest21 [n=wgGuest2@10.207.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 06:30 <@preaction> why doesn't the default www_view in WebGUI::Asset do all the stuff that the one in WebGUI::Asset::Wobject does? 06:31 <@rizen> cuz only and idiot would think that it should 06:31 <@rizen> wahoo!! zinged you 06:32 <@rizen> consider yourself zinged!!! 06:32 <@rizen> =) 06:33 <@rizen> for starters styles are a property of wobjects, not assets 06:34 <@rizen> secondly, since Asset is a base class we shouldn't make assumptions about what kind of content that the asset might be serving up 06:34 <@preaction> that'd explain it then 06:34 <@rizen> assets often don't even serve html 06:34 <@rizen> sometimes they serve binary files, sometimes redirects, sometimes other text files like css, xml, javascript, etc 06:35 <@preaction> so the Wobject is just a more feature-rich shell for an Asset 06:35 <@rizen> yup 06:35 <@rizen> i imagine that in the future there might be other shells too 06:36 <@preaction> basically i've noticed that i copy the wobject www_view a lot, which probably means i should be making these things wobjects and not assets 06:36 <@rizen> generally an asset is something simple that returns exactly 1 thing that is not HTML 06:36 <@preaction> par exampla: Events 06:36 <@rizen> event's should be assets 06:37 <@rizen> not wobjects 06:37 <@rizen> but you should not be copying www_view 06:37 <@rizen> well..i shouldn't say that 06:38 <@rizen> it is copied..but you couldn't inherit it from wobject anyway 06:38 <@rizen> because the style doesn't come from the event 06:38 <@rizen> it comes from the calendar 06:38 <@preaction> right 06:43 <@preaction> oh, while i have your strict attention: Would it be prudent to allow an asset to have a definition w/o a table name or a properties hashref? currently it's not allowed, but if you want to subclass and call it something different in the New Content accordian, you have to make a definition, which requires a table/properties 06:44 <@rizen> nope, it's required for a good reason 06:49 <+perlDreamer> cuz if you leave it out, he'll cut off yer thumbs 06:49 <@preaction> in case the superclass changes? so that nobody tries to do something stupid with the properties hashref? i assume it's for a "stop author stupidity" problem and not a technical problem 06:49 <@preaction> of course, the code required to check would be rather ugly 06:49 <@rizen> i just thought i'd leave you hanging 06:50 <@rizen> you don't actually need to know the good reason, do you? 06:50 <+perlDreamer> can't hang him, he won't have no thumbs 06:50 <@rizen> cuz if you ask, then it means you don't trust me 06:50 <@preaction> unless one made a series of getDefinition* subs in WebGUI::Asset that could get things like "tableName" => [ column names ] 06:50 <+perlDreamer> guess there are other things to hang him from 06:50 <@preaction> i'm from missouri 06:50 <@preaction> but you can show me later 06:50 <@rizen> missouri = misery 06:51 <@rizen> or do you say it like = mizoruh 06:51 <@preaction> basically thus: I'd like to call my subclassed asset something different, allow it to co-exist with the superclass, but that requires a basically useless table with assetId and revisionDate 06:52 <@rizen> the good reason is this, while right now you may think to yourself, self, i don't need to add any fields to this thing. the reality of the situation is that you can never think that far ahead, therefore by creating the table now, and therefore having assetId and revisionDate in that table collecting data for revisiions, you can quickly and easily add properties later without a big fuck around operation 06:53 <@preaction> stop author stupidity, got it 06:54 <@preaction> which means instead of code allowing no tableName, i'll end up making code that croaks without one 06:54 <@preaction> (more diagnostically interesting than "cannot use BLAH as a HASH ref" or "cannot execute prepared statement: 'insert into (assetId, revisionDate) values ()" 06:56 <@rizen> i'm hoping to eventually get rid of all asset tables other than asset and assetData 06:56 <@rizen> oh, and assetIndex 06:56 <@preaction> do that data structure thing you were talking about a while back? 06:56 <@rizen> yup 06:57 <@rizen> so much to do and so little time though 06:57 <@preaction> i'm still against it, it would render SQLReports basically useless for a large part of what people use them for 06:57 <@preaction> or force to use regexp to parse whatever serialization we decided on 06:57 <@rizen> true, but i don't care 06:58 <@rizen> cuz what i'm interested in is performance 06:58 <@rizen> if i can double the speed of asset operations, at the cost of using SQL reports in some circumstances...so be it 06:59 <+perlDreamer> we'd just invent the AssetReport instead 06:59 <@rizen> true dat 06:59 <@rizen> someone was already talking about subclassing the nav asset to do that 06:59 <@preaction> me 07:00 <@rizen> oh, right 07:01 <@preaction> the fastest (in cycles) way would probably be to use Storable qw(canonical);, and with an AssetReport wobject with a decent interface, we put more power in user's hands AND have faster asset instanciation 07:01 * preaction approves 07:05 <+perlDreamer> rizen: are we seeing a whole new class of bugs related to browser caching on the list? 07:05 <+perlDreamer> misreported login names 07:05 <+perlDreamer> xtopher file download 07:05 <+perlDreamer> misja's last-modified bug 07:06 <@rizen> maybe, but i doubt it 07:07 <@rizen> i don't think xtophers is cache related 07:07 <+perlDreamer> I can't duplicate it 07:07 <@rizen> no idea on capmorgan 07:07 <+perlDreamer> that's what made me start wondering 07:07 <@rizen> and misja's is a bug i knew about 07:07 <@rizen> that was caused by my new cache fix 07:07 <@rizen> but at the time i couldn't figure out how to fix it 07:08 <@rizen> and my fix + the new bug, was better than the old bug 07:08 <@rizen> for 99% of users 07:08 <+perlDreamer> I'm not saying we should go back to the old way 07:08 <@rizen> i don't think xtopher's is even a bug 07:09 <@rizen> i think whatever problem he's having is due to his local environment 07:09 <+perlDreamer> he's said he's done it twice 07:09 <@rizen> i don't care what he's said 07:09 <@rizen> do you *ever* trust what a user says? 07:09 <+perlDreamer> yes and no 07:09 <@rizen> i never do 07:09 <@rizen> because without fail, they lie 07:10 <@rizen> and they misinterpret 07:10 <+perlDreamer> misinterpret, yes 07:10 <@rizen> user's are ultimately unreliable witnesses 07:10 <+perlDreamer> miscommunicate 07:10 <@rizen> and lie 07:10 <+perlDreamer> exaggerate 07:10 <@rizen> i'll give you an example 07:10 <@rizen> we trust ckotil, right? 07:10 <+perlDreamer> yes 07:10 <@rizen> i trust him too 07:10 <@rizen> he's a good user 07:10 <@rizen> however, he lied to me when i was working a bug with him 07:11 <@rizen> i asked how many perls he had on his box 07:11 <@rizen> he said 1 07:11 <@rizen> yet, when you asked him the same question an hour later on irc 07:11 <@rizen> he said 2 07:11 <@rizen> now, in this case, i think the lie was because he was sure that the second perl wasn't having anything to do with the problem 07:11 <@rizen> but it's still a lie 07:12 <+perlDreamer> did that ever get resolved? 07:12 <@rizen> he wasn't doing it to be mischievous 07:12 <@rizen> he was doing it to direct my focus down the path that he wanted me to look 07:12 <@rizen> users do that all the time 07:12 <@rizen> it's human nature 07:13 <@rizen> i've done it with tech support people before too 07:13 <@rizen> what's a little white lie if you get what you want 07:13 <@rizen> =) 07:13 <@rizen> no, it didn't get resolved 07:13 <@rizen> without logging into his box, i could go no further. so he said since it was a dev box, he'd just reinstall and see if that fixed it 07:15 <@rizen> i can tell you that i catch at least one user in a lie every single week 07:15 <@rizen> and it's almost never malicious 07:15 <@rizen> it's about putting blinders on me so they can try to focus me in whatever direction they want me to go 07:15 <@rizen> but the problem is, that they misinterpreted something to make them think the problem is over there 07:15 <@rizen> and then now i don't know about all these other things over here 07:16 <@rizen> and i can't give them good support 07:17 <+perlDreamer> They're so caught up in the details they can't back up to see the whole thing. 07:18 <@rizen> right. i don't hold it against them. but when you're supporting someone, it's good to know that little truth about people. 07:18 <@rizen> because if you do, you tend to hold open doors that they are trying to force closed 07:18 <@rizen> and you end up being able to provide better support 07:19 <+perlDreamer> so only trust them as far as you can smell them 07:19 <@rizen> nope...don't trust them at all 07:19 <@rizen> have them perform tasks 07:19 <@rizen> and report back results 07:19 <@rizen> so you have facts 07:19 <@rizen> occasionally i've even caught users tampering with the output of commands that i've had them run 07:20 <@rizen> but that is not very often 07:20 <@rizen> you can usually rely upon the output 07:28 <+perlDreamer> ls ~rizen 07:29 <+perlDreamer> bin 07:29 <+perlDreamer> boozeList 07:29 <+perlDreamer> clientelle 07:29 <+perlDreamer> crapper@ 07:29 <+perlDreamer> dev 07:29 <+perlDreamer> emerge 07:30 <+perlDreamer> fubar 07:30 <@rizen> null -> /dev/null 07:31 <+perlDreamer> I'll just try to dupe the bugs and ask them for a recipe if I can't 07:32 <@rizen> huh? 07:32 <@rizen> oh, are you referring to xtopher's bug? 07:33 <+perlDreamer> all of them 07:33 <@rizen> colin, you should know by now that you should do whatever it is that you want to do 07:34 <@rizen> anything you do is better than something you don't do 07:34 <@rizen> =) 07:34 <+perlDreamer> I know, but I'm at a loss as to handle a lot of the bugs on the list 07:34 <+perlDreamer> Most times, I can figure out a bug by reading the report 07:34 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has joined #webgui 07:34 -!- mode/#webgui [+o vayde] by ChanServ 07:35 <+perlDreamer> Every once in a while, I have to duplicate it exactly and then add lots o' errorHandler stuff 07:35 <+perlDreamer> but most of the stuff on there now has me stumped 07:35 <+perlDreamer> can't dupe 07:35 <+perlDreamer> users don't respond back 07:35 <+perlDreamer> or, in the case of the email server thing, I can't test my fix 07:35 <@rizen> you do close the bug when you reply, right? 07:35 <+perlDreamer> not usually. Should that be standard procedure from now on? 07:36 <@rizen> if you can't dupe, and that forces you to ask for more information 07:36 <@rizen> then you should always close the bug at the time that you ask for that info 07:36 <@rizen> it will automatically reopen if the user replies 07:38 <+perlDreamer> you've said that before, I should have remembered it 07:39 <@vayde> perlDreamer, This is Nik. Thanks again for your help. 07:39 <+perlDreamer> hey, nik! You're welcome 07:42 <+perlDreamer> if you're looking for a more challenging bug, try the one from susanb about Post replies not incrementing correctly. 07:43 <+perlDreamer> that's stumped, me, rizen and preaction 07:44 <@vayde> Oh great, the gods fail, and mere mortals must dare? 07:44 <@vayde> I'll get it. Might take a while. I'm taking baby steps at the moment 07:47 <+perlDreamer> we all stand on the shoulders of giants, but ware, lest Atlas shrug 07:56 <+perlDreamer> 'night all 07:57 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit [""""] 08:18 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:33 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["90% of the problems that people have with GNU/Linux are to impute to Windows."] 10:36 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #webgui 11:12 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] 11:41 -!- besonen_mobile [n=besonen_@71-220-225-182.eugn.qwest.net] has joined #webgui 11:42 -!- besonen_mobile_ [n=besonen_@71-220-225-182.eugn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:45 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [] 13:29 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["90% of the problems that people have with GNU/Linux are to impute to Windows."] 19:18 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #webgui 21:29 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 21:29 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 22:36 <@preaction> http://www.acc.umu.se/~zqad/cats/index.html?view=1174329819-shoryukenou0.jpg <- yesterday was caturday. represent 22:42 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has joined #webgui 22:42 -!- mode/#webgui [+o vayde] by ChanServ 23:50 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["90% of the problems that people have with GNU/Linux are to impute to Windows."] --- Day changed Mon Mar 26 2007 02:22 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:23 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has joined #webgui 02:23 -!- mode/#webgui [+o vayde] by ChanServ 02:35 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 02:36 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has joined #webgui 02:36 -!- mode/#webgui [+o vayde] by ChanServ 02:38 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [] 03:15 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui 03:48 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 04:18 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui 05:41 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:43 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui 06:08 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 06:08 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 06:18 -!- vayde_ [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has joined #webgui 06:18 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:34 -!- vayde_ [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 06:34 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has joined #webgui 06:34 -!- mode/#webgui [+o vayde] by ChanServ 07:41 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:04 < Radix-wrk> preaction: who usually rates the RFE's? rizen? 08:05 <@preaction> rizen 08:05 < Radix-wrk> the RFE I added on the 21st still needs to be rated - http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/additional-post-template-variables-for-cs#Vqh5yCK93ub8YQWAxbgfXA 08:05 < Radix-wrk> k, I'll mention it to him then next time I see him 11:14 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:40 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #webgui 14:13 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:52 -!- Netsplit leguin.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: Radix_ 15:04 -!- Netsplit leguin.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: Hinrik, ckotil, perlbot, cga, nuba, pjesi, @preaction, besonen_mobile 15:08 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @preaction, Radix_, cga, besonen_mobile, Hinrik, ckotil, perlbot, pjesi, nuba 15:29 -!- ckotil [n=newtrino@snare.grnoc.iu.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:40 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@204.sub-75-204-227.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI 15:43 < SDuensin> Good morning. 16:10 -!- AMH_bob [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui 17:48 < nuba> @ http://www.plainblack.com/wre/installing , "Look in your porcess list to see if it's running", s/porcess/process/ 18:11 -!- AMH_bob [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 1.5.0.10/0000000000]"] 18:20 -!- ckotil [n=newtrino@snare.grnoc.iu.edu] has joined #webgui 18:20 < ckotil> anyone noticing the right most panel in the admin console seems to disappear and works like a hover? the 'show admin console' 'back to site, turn admin off!, logout' 18:21 < ckotil> the entire admin console is exhibiting wierd hover behavior 18:22 <@preaction> ckotil: what browser? probably a site-specific behavior 18:22 < SDuensin> Not me. Then again, I completely broke my test system, so I'm probably not the right guy to ask. :-) 18:22 < ckotil> ff 2.0 18:22 < ckotil> pry is my browser.. 18:22 < ckotil> i just upgraded it. 18:22 < SDuensin> I notice a few rendering oddities with FF2, but nothing major. 18:23 <@preaction> i've been using FF2.0 for a while 18:24 < ckotil> something wiered is going on. 18:25 < ckotil> safari isnt listing my assets, in the asset manager 18:25 < ckotil> i've an idea on what could be causing it. 18:25 < SDuensin> I've had other weirdness like that... 18:25 < SDuensin> Usually a "rc.webgui restart" fixes it. 18:26 < SDuensin> Don't ask why. 18:31 < ckotil> ok def. a wg issue. 18:31 < ckotil> it happens to me ont he demo site 18:31 < ckotil> im using ff 2.0.0.3 18:33 <@preaction> safari is not a supported browser for the admin console 18:33 < ckotil> k 18:34 < ckotil> im going to file a bug report 19:30 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has joined #webgui 19:30 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 19:31 -!- vayde [n=vayde@209.134.142.196] has joined #webgui 19:31 -!- mode/#webgui [+o vayde] by ChanServ 19:42 -!- bopbop [n=kristi@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 20:12 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [] 20:36 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 20:36 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 22:14 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:14 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 22:14 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 22:41 < SDuensin> Been very quiet in here today. 22:57 < ckotil> thats a good thing! 22:57 < ckotil> no problems 23:01 < SDuensin> Speak for yourself. I can't get the WRE to run for anything today. 23:01 < ckotil> shitty 23:03 < SDuensin> I installed the Ubuntu WRE like always, got wG loaded from a mirror, ran testEnvironment and let it update some things... 23:03 < SDuensin> Spectre won't keep running. Can't connect. 23:04 < SDuensin> Kinda looks like the web server dies, too. 23:04 < SDuensin> WTF?! 23:11 -!- bopbop [n=kristi@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:13 < SDuensin> I don't get it. It just won't run. :-/ 23:14 < SDuensin> Makes me scared to upgrade my 7.3.12 install at home. 23:14 < ckotil> you have a backup to revert to? 23:14 < SDuensin> Not here, this is a clean install. 23:27 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui 23:27 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ 23:34 -!- bopbop [n=kristi@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 23:34 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["90% of the problems that people have with GNU/Linux are to impute to Windows."] 23:41 <+perlDreamer> preaction: you need to set up bopbop's account so that she gets op'ed when she enters the channel 23:41 <@preaction> bopbop needs to register with nickserv 23:41 < bopbop> did 23:41 <@preaction> oh 23:41 < bopbop> I think... 23:42 <@preaction> bopbop: rejoin the chanel (/part /join #webgui) 23:42 <@vayde> SDuensin, ask rizen about it when he's in next. He had to play some games to get my dev enviornment up on my Ubuntu box, but I don't know exactly what he did. 23:42 < SDuensin> Ok, vayde - thanks. 23:42 < SDuensin> I'm headed home now, so I'll screw with it more later. 23:43 <+perlDreamer> you could also check the wiki 23:43 <+MrHairgrease> SDuensin 23:43 <+MrHairgrease> I have a ubuntu 6.10 tar ball 23:43 <+MrHairgrease> a wre tarball for 6.10 that is 23:43 < SDuensin> Never had a problem before. 23:44 <+MrHairgrease> oh ok 23:44 <+MrHairgrease> just came in 23:44 -!- bopbop [n=kristi@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has left #webgui [] 23:44 -!- bopbop [n=kristi@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 23:44 <+MrHairgrease> didn't catch the other conversation 23:44 < SDuensin> I'll be back later. :-) 23:44 < SDuensin> See ya! 23:44 -!- bopbop [n=kristi@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has left #webgui [] 23:44 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@204.sub-75-204-227.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:44 <+MrHairgrease> later 23:45 <@vayde> bye 23:45 <+perlDreamer> MHg, SDuensin was having problems getting apache and spectre to start up on Ubuntu 23:45 <+MrHairgrease> never had that 23:45 <+MrHairgrease> ubuntu does start its own apache by default though 23:46 <+MrHairgrease> But i reckon he already checked that 23:46 <+MrHairgrease> or fixed his init 23:50 <+MrHairgrease> anybody working on an acme thingy? 23:51 <+perlDreamer> no comment 23:51 <+MrHairgrease> no time? 23:52 * perlDreamer is ashamed 23:52 <+perlDreamer> no time 23:52 <+MrHairgrease> that's too bad 23:52 <+MrHairgrease> you are developer of the year 23:52 <+MrHairgrease> why waste time fixing bugs 23:53 <+MrHairgrease> when you can waste it on stuff thta doesn't do anything =) 23:53 <+perlDreamer> I am co-developer of the year, with you, my friend 23:53 <+MrHairgrease> yeah 23:54 <+MrHairgrease> but i haven't done that much this year 23:54 <+perlDreamer> you still have 6 months to go 23:54 <+MrHairgrease> that's true 23:54 <+MrHairgrease> but this graduation thing just eats up almost all of my time 23:55 <+MrHairgrease> and at oqapi i have too much client stuff going on 23:56 <+perlDreamer> school and work are both important. It's good that you make them priorities. 23:56 <+MrHairgrease> Now you're just being very dad like =) 23:56 < ckotil> neither pay the bills 23:56 < ckotil> o wait 23:57 <+MrHairgrease> see it like this 23:57 <+perlDreamer> I am a dad. Didn't know it was rubbing off in other venues 23:57 <+perlDreamer> by the way, stop grabbing your pants and go to th bathroom 23:57 <+MrHairgrease> ha 23:57 <+MrHairgrease> are you getting dirty? 23:57 <+MrHairgrease> =) 23:58 <+perlDreamer> no, that's that I tell my 5-year old every night 23:58 <+MrHairgrease> sure 23:58 <+MrHairgrease> sure --- Day changed Tue Mar 27 2007 00:17 <+MrHairgrease> hey perldreamer 00:17 <+MrHairgrease> could this bug 00:18 <+MrHairgrease> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/last-reply-and-replies-columns-not-updating#bT9Q1wDMLnB80RratGbS9A 00:18 <+MrHairgrease> be caused by the two seperate time() functiuons 00:18 <+MrHairgrease> in the definition sub? 00:18 <+MrHairgrease> s/functiuons/calls/ 00:19 < nuba> question 00:19 <+MrHairgrease> they could be different 00:19 <+MrHairgrease> shoot 00:19 < nuba> oops, wrong channel 00:19 < nuba> heh sorry 00:19 <+MrHairgrease> even better =) 00:19 <+MrHairgrease> np 00:20 <+perlDreamer> MrHairgrease, I don't think so 00:20 <+MrHairgrease> ok 00:20 <+MrHairgrease> it was just a wild guess anyway 00:24 <+perlDreamer> we actually outfitted PB.com with some extra logging code, and when the child post is created, the times are okay 00:24 <+perlDreamer> when it is committed, the times are okay 00:24 <+perlDreamer> that's all we know so far 00:25 <+perlDreamer> ok meaning equal 00:25 <+perlDreamer> but it couldn't hurt to try it out 00:25 <+MrHairgrease> buit the report says that ion some cases both times are not equal 00:25 <+MrHairgrease> anyway 00:25 <+MrHairgrease> it should still be fixed 00:26 <+perlDreamer> I agree 00:26 <+perlDreamer> there is a way to test your theory, but we'd need the elite hacking skills of preaction 00:26 <+MrHairgrease> the chance of both time()s being diffrent is extremely small 00:26 <+MrHairgrease> you don't 00:26 <+MrHairgrease> just put $now at the top of definition() 00:27 <+perlDreamer> do you happen to have a high traffic site sitting around that you're willing to guinea pig to test it out? 00:27 <+MrHairgrease> $now = time() 00:27 <+perlDreamer> dude, I get that 00:27 <+MrHairgrease> i don't 00:27 <+MrHairgrease> sry 00:27 <+MrHairgrease> didn'tmean to belittle you =) 00:27 <@preaction> i still think it has something to do with the addRevision override in Post and Thread 00:27 <+perlDreamer> what I meant was that preaction or rizen could hack it into the wG isntall on PB and we could know in 24 hours if it worked or not 00:27 <+MrHairgrease> ok 00:28 <+MrHairgrease> ic 00:28 <+perlDreamer> that's all I meant. wasn't being defensive 00:28 <+perlDreamer> and I agree that it should be fixed in any case 00:28 <@preaction> ALL RIGHT, EVERYBODY CALM DOWN 00:28 <+perlDreamer> are you game for some PB hackery, preaction? 00:28 <@preaction> who stole the catsup? 00:29 <+perlDreamer> MHG has a theory about the post reply bug 00:29 <+perlDreamer> sub def in Post.pm calls time twice 00:29 <@preaction> ooooooooh 00:29 <@preaction> that's bad 00:29 <+perlDreamer> can you hack PB.com's version and tomorrow we can see if there are any new/bad posts in the boards? 00:30 <@preaction> do we still have that debug crapola running? 00:30 <+perlDreamer> seems like we were getting at least 5-6 bad thread/posts per day when we looked at it last 00:30 <+perlDreamer> probably 00:30 <+perlDreamer> it should be removed 00:30 <+MrHairgrease> shouldn't you let it in place while testing? 00:30 <+perlDreamer> it never gave us any good data 00:30 <+MrHairgrease> oh 00:30 <+perlDreamer> while bad posts were being inputted it said everything was okay 00:31 <+MrHairgrease> ic 00:31 <+perlDreamer> anyway, preaction, if you'd do a baseline SQLReport today, and another tomorrow after the hack, we'd know if that was the problem 00:31 <+perlDreamer> for which, I vote that MHG be given his weight in beer and pomade 00:32 <+MrHairgrease> that's too much 00:32 <+MrHairgrease> i'll settle for the beer =) 00:32 <+perlDreamer> isn't pomade more expensive, per ounce? 00:32 <@preaction> what was the query we were using? what's the problem, that dateSubmitted and date... something aren't both the same for posts that have no replies? 00:33 <+perlDreamer> no, dateSubmitted and dateUpdated start to differ to the reply counter doesn't get updated 00:33 <+perlDreamer> I don't remember the exact query 00:33 <+perlDreamer> we'd need to try the IRC logs 00:33 <+perlDreamer> you had a slick query that you ran against the db to ask it 00:33 <+perlDreamer> it would have been in february 00:34 <+perlDreamer> feb 2 00:34 <+MrHairgrease> pd, it is, but i use only about half a can a month... 00:34 <+MrHairgrease> which is no quite my beer consuption =) 00:52 <+perlDreamer> preaction: we talked about your query, but it's never listed anywhere 00:53 <+perlDreamer> we pasted it a few times 00:53 <+perlDreamer> but those pastes have probably been wiped offline by now 00:57 <+perlDreamer> our converation is here 00:57 <+perlDreamer> http://mentalhouse.net/irc/logs/webgui/2007-02.log 00:57 <+perlDreamer> and you can search for this string to locate it 00:57 <+perlDreamer> of course it's near impossible to read 01:01 <@preaction> i've got a query that'll do it 01:01 <@preaction> 1979 posts have a dateUpdated / dateSubmitted of less than two seconds difference 01:01 <@preaction> seems impossible to me, unless it's a bug 01:03 <@preaction> perlDreamer, MrHairgrease: it's in Post that I want to change, correct? 01:04 <+perlDreamer> that's the one 01:05 <+perlDreamer> sub def 01:05 <+perlDreamer> 1 call to time and use the variable in both places 01:05 <@preaction> 1979 rows, i updated the Post on pb.com, we'll see 01:07 <+perlDreamer> I'm going to do a quick code audit to see if that happens anywhere else in a def sub 01:13 <+perlDreamer> the others look fine 01:14 <+perlDreamer> I did see some cases where time is called inside of a loop as a reference 01:14 <+perlDreamer> but that will just be bad display, not introducing problems 01:17 <+MrHairgrease> in this case the max diff induced by the two time() calls can be 1 sec 01:17 <+MrHairgrease> so if you have two somewhere 01:17 <+MrHairgrease> this isn't the (complete) solution 01:18 <+perlDreamer> you'd sure think so, but in the tests we've increased the limit for checking time difference up to 2 or 3 01:18 <+perlDreamer> server load can make a big difference, which is scary 01:19 <+MrHairgrease> yeah 01:19 <+MrHairgrease> but 01:20 <+MrHairgrease> the calls are directly after each other 01:20 <+MrHairgrease> if server load causes more than 2 secs of diff 01:20 <+MrHairgrease> you've got bigger problems 01:20 <+MrHairgrease> anyway 01:20 <+MrHairgrease> gotta 01:20 <+MrHairgrease> go 01:20 <+MrHairgrease> later guys\ 01:21 <+perlDreamer> later, man 01:26 * perlDreamer will be back in 20 01:26 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] 02:05 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI 02:55 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has quit [""""] 03:28 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:46 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui 04:50 -!- vayde [n=vayde@209.134.142.196] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:07 -!- Radix-work [n=Jesse@202.72.155.2] has joined #webgui 05:08 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:08 -!- Radix-work [n=Jesse@202.72.155.2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:09 -!- Radix-work [n=Jesse@formsys.com] has joined #webgui 05:19 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui 05:20 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 05:22 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@formsys.com] has joined #webgui 05:23 <+perlDreamer> you're getting a little schizo there Radix-wo?rk 05:24 -!- Radix-work [n=Jesse@formsys.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:43 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@formsys.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:47 <+perlDreamer> are there any web designers in the room? 05:48 <+perlDreamer> someone is reporting a bug where they create an image asset 05:48 <+perlDreamer> then upload a new image, with the same name to the asset 05:48 <+perlDreamer> and for a while, they still see the original imgae 05:48 <+perlDreamer> I don't think this is a webgui bug, but browser caching settings 05:48 <+perlDreamer> i.e., the browser checks the file name and says Hey, I already have that one 05:49 <+perlDreamer> so it doesn't download the new one 05:49 <+perlDreamer> anyone seen that before? 05:51 <+perlDreamer> You know, I only ask questions like this because snapcount's crickets get lonely 05:52 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@formsys.com] has joined #webgui 05:52 < Radix-wrk> yeah, a little schitzo.. trying to fix one of our adsl links atm :) 05:54 <+perlDreamer> ah 05:55 <+perlDreamer> you ever seen a bug where you upload a new file with an old file name and your browser ignores it? 05:58 < nuba> yes, cache, agreed. 05:58 < nuba> i usually fix that with ctrl+r in my firefox browser 06:06 <+perlDreamer> so there isn't anything wG can do to fix it. 06:09 < Radix-wrk> no, its a local cache problem i would have thought 06:22 < nuba> thats set by browser.cache.check_doc_frequency on firefox. 1 = Every time I view the page, 0 = Once per session, 3 = When the page is out of date (default), 2 = Never (http://www.mozilla.org/quality/networking/docs/netprefs.html) 06:22 <+perlDreamer> IE has similar settings? 06:23 < nuba> possibly, some random setting buried in the registry 06:25 < nuba> or maybe some setting at IE's user preferences dialogs 06:28 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:45 -!- Radix-work [n=Jesse@202.72.155.2] has joined #webgui 06:46 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@formsys.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:47 -!- Radix-work [n=Jesse@202.72.155.2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:47 -!- Radix-work [n=Jesse@formsys.com] has joined #webgui 06:48 -!- Radix-w [n=Jesse@202.72.155.2] has joined #webgui 06:48 -!- Radix-work [n=Jesse@formsys.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:48 <+perlDreamer> in 06:48 <+perlDreamer> out 06:48 <+perlDreamer> in 06:48 <+perlDreamer> out 06:48 <+perlDreamer> you're making me dizzy! 06:48 -!- Radix-w [n=Jesse@202.72.155.2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:51 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@formsys.com] has joined #webgui 06:58 < Hinrik> does sex make you dizzy too? 06:58 <+perlDreamer> I should have said enter/exit, but I suppose the connotation is the same 06:59 < Hinrik> :) 07:10 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has joined #webgui 07:10 -!- mode/#webgui [+o vayde] by ChanServ 07:23 <+perlDreamer> good luck bug hunting? 07:28 <@vayde> Luck? No. Was I able to follow your breadcrumbs? Yes. 07:29 <@vayde> I spent the day learning why your advice was the solution. 07:30 <@vayde> I thought I was pretty ok at perl until I saw some of the coolness going on in WebGUI. Now I feel a little small. 07:31 < Radix-wrk> hehe 07:37 <+perlDreamer> dude, don't let it get you down 07:37 <+perlDreamer> I started off writing documentation patches 07:37 <+perlDreamer> that was three years ago 07:39 <@vayde> well, there's an old chinese saying: If he goes step by step, even a lame tortoise can walk a mile. 07:39 <@vayde> that may be me for a little bit, but not for too long 07:40 <+perlDreamer> rizen says you show a lot of promise 07:40 <+perlDreamer> from him that is high praise 07:40 <@vayde> that makes me feel a little better. 07:41 <+perlDreamer> after you make your first big mistake, it will go easier 07:41 <@vayde> lol 07:41 <+perlDreamer> I broke the entire wG GUI in November of 2005 07:41 <+perlDreamer> it was broken in various pieces for three weeks 07:41 <@vayde> yeah, after the world doesn't end, you get some perspective 07:41 <@vayde> ouch 07:41 <+perlDreamer> preaction started early with the calendar 07:41 <@vayde> I hope not to nosedive that spectacularly 07:42 <@vayde> then again, crashing with style is cool 07:42 <+perlDreamer> Yeah, I'm (in)famous 07:43 <@vayde> well, I'll say this, PlainBlack, and all of you are one hell of a group to get in with. I'm really impressed 07:43 <+perlDreamer> It's a good community. 07:43 <+perlDreamer> Why don't you tell us about yourself? 07:44 <@vayde> heh. Ok. I'm a kung fu instructor. 07:44 <@vayde> and I do perl 07:44 <+perlDreamer> that's an unusual combination 07:44 <@vayde> I had to learn it to make software for my studio. There wasn't much in the way of martial arts software 07:45 <@vayde> I'm an unusual guy 07:45 <+perlDreamer> you'll fit in well here, then 07:45 <@vayde> I started out as a theater major, dropped out of school to do bird of prey demonstrations at the San Antonio Zoo 07:46 <@vayde> ended back in MN as a truck driver and a locksmith 07:46 <@vayde> Got hired as a tech support guy for a small law firm, and ended up as the head of IT 07:47 <@vayde> for a little while until the firm dissolved to duck some of it's debts 07:47 <@vayde> I started with perl in 2000, but wasn't super serious until a couple years ago 07:48 <@vayde> My first studio software was written in MsAccess, and kept crashing whenever they updated somethign. couldn't do business that way. switched to linux and rewrote the baby 4 times in perl 07:49 <@vayde> now it humms, or I thought it did until I saw wG. 07:49 <@vayde> that too looks a little small now. ;) 07:50 <+perlDreamer> WebGUI is pretty cool 07:50 <@vayde> I dunno, that's about it. I stand around in my pajamas during the evenings and hit stuff. 07:51 <@vayde> and now I'm trying to get up to speed on WebGUI 07:51 <+perlDreamer> there's a lot to learn 07:51 <+perlDreamer> assets, templates, macros, users, groups 07:51 <@vayde> hopefully I will be able to feel like I'm contributing soon, and not like the idiot son 07:51 <+perlDreamer> typical uptime for any new job is 2-3 months 07:52 <+perlDreamer> and JT's thrown you in headfirst 07:52 <+perlDreamer> plus you have the whole channel to back you up, as well as the PB staff 07:52 <+perlDreamer> and they're all good guys 07:53 <@vayde> that's good to hear. I'm not used to working for others. 07:54 <@vayde> this is the first totally programming job I've had. It's pretty overwhelming. 07:54 <@vayde> Fun though. I'm learning alot 07:57 <+perlDreamer> would you like to kick around an idea with me? 07:57 <+perlDreamer> JT's okayed an RFE to allow users to transfer karma between one another. 07:57 <@vayde> sure. hit me 07:57 <+perlDreamer> the code itself is easy 07:57 <+perlDreamer> but the hard part is the UI for the user 07:58 <+perlDreamer> it should be very light weight and easy to implement 07:58 <@vayde> Ok, you gotta back up for a second though. What exactly is karma? 07:58 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: karma? 07:58 < perlbot> pass out karma to those who deserve it (GumbyBRAIN++) and retract it from those who don't (satan--) 07:58 <+perlDreamer> wrong kind of karma 07:58 <+perlDreamer> http://plainblack.com/karma 07:59 <+perlDreamer> it's a way of recognizing user contributions to a site 07:59 <+perlDreamer> posting to discussion boards, voting in polls, uploading content, etc. 07:59 <@vayde> Ok, that's what I gathered from context. 08:00 <@vayde> and users can basically reward each other 08:00 <+perlDreamer> that part is currently missing 08:00 <+perlDreamer> but it would be good for users to thank one another 08:00 <+perlDreamer> right now it only comes from PB staff and the system 08:00 <@vayde> sure. I follow 08:01 <+perlDreamer> so a way needs to be invented to make it easy for users to do this 08:01 <+perlDreamer> without burdening the system with more template variables 08:01 <@vayde> adapting the staff/system mechanism would carry too much overhead? 08:01 <+perlDreamer> staff mechanism is via direct db inserts 08:02 <+perlDreamer> the system mechanism is a little too simple, since it always knows which user it's working on 08:02 <+perlDreamer> $session->user (default session user) 08:02 <+perlDreamer> what doesn't exist is a way for a user to give karma to an arbitrary other user 08:02 <+perlDreamer> here's one example 08:03 <+perlDreamer> we could add a new template variable to the Collaboration System 08:03 <+perlDreamer> but it's already huge and adding new things just slows it down 08:03 <+perlDreamer> and that only does that one Asset. 08:03 <+perlDreamer> it would be better to find a way to get them all at once. 08:03 <+perlDreamer> I'm leaning on extending the user profile interface. 08:04 <+perlDreamer> op=viewProfile 08:04 <+perlDreamer> right now, it either displays the other user's profile or gives you a warning that the profile isn't viewable. 08:04 <+perlDreamer> but it would be easy to add a small form that says: Give this user ______ karma. 08:05 <@vayde> what about a public/private profile for a user? 08:06 <+perlDreamer> if the user's profile was public, the karma transfer form would be added to the top of it 08:06 <+perlDreamer> if it was private, it would be placed just below the message that says it is private 08:07 <@vayde> you mean putting a form on the profile itself where you could transfer karma to that user? 08:08 <+perlDreamer> yes 08:08 <@vayde> like a mailbox basically 08:08 <+perlDreamer> yeah 08:08 <@vayde> or a tin cup 08:08 <+perlDreamer> the other option is to create a Give user (from select list) this much karma: ____. 08:08 <+perlDreamer> but the select list would be huge and slow. 08:09 <+perlDreamer> it's more generic but the user select list is nasty 08:09 <@vayde> yeah. If its not convenient it won't be used 08:10 <@vayde> Hmm. I didn't realize that the profiles were private. My first look at wG was as an admin. 08:11 <@vayde> I'm surprised there isn't a small public portion of a user profile. Seems like there should be one. 08:12 <+perlDreamer> profile are either totally private or totally public. 08:12 <+perlDreamer> it would be a cool RFE to add that particular feature 08:13 <@vayde> that seems like the best way to implement your idea to me. 08:14 <@vayde> we could even get fancy and let you decide which parts you wanted on which side of the wall. 08:14 <@vayde> though that might get ugly to implement 08:15 <+perlDreamer> it shouldn't be harder than an additional db column for each entry and more logic 08:15 <+perlDreamer> but that would be a separate RFE 08:15 <+perlDreamer> and I'm only cleared for the karma one right now 08:17 <@vayde> easiest way to do that imo would put a small public header on the profile. 08:17 <@vayde> of course, I'm saying that without any knowledge of how the critter is put together. 08:17 <+perlDreamer> no, I think that would be it exactly 08:18 <+perlDreamer> the user profile display code is in Operation/Profile.pm 08:18 <+perlDreamer> www_viewProfile 08:20 <@vayde> what are the group numbers in there? and where is that data stored? 08:20 <+perlDreamer> in the groups table 08:20 <+perlDreamer> group 1 is Visitor 08:20 <+perlDreamer> group 2 is Registered Users 08:20 <+perlDreamer> group 3 is Admin 08:20 <+perlDreamer> group 7 is Everyone (I think) 08:20 <+perlDreamer> select groupId, groupName from groups order by groupId; 08:22 <@vayde> aha thanks 08:23 <@vayde> that's been my biggest problem so far. Where do I find X? 08:23 <@vayde> and of course the DBI calls are a wee bit disguised. 08:23 <+perlDreamer> just a bit 08:23 <+perlDreamer> are you familiar with the placeholder syntax? 08:24 <@vayde> yes 08:24 <+perlDreamer> we've been working on converting as much of it as we can over to using placeholders 08:25 <@vayde> is there a way to cheat and use placeholders for things like fieldnames? 08:25 <+perlDreamer> like select ? from table where field=value? 08:25 <@vayde> I realize the db can't prepare the query like that, but I wonder if there's a workaround 08:25 <@vayde> yeah like that. I 08:25 <+perlDreamer> only by interpreting varialbes into the query 08:26 <+perlDreamer> select $field from table where field=value 08:26 <@vayde> right, but that's just what placeholders allow us NOT to do 08:26 <+perlDreamer> yes, but perl will always allow you to shoot yourself in the foot 08:27 <@vayde> I suppose only thing to do is pull the fieldname out of a hash, that way it should barf if injected, but I was wondering if there was a more elegant solution 08:27 <@vayde> well, you gotta practice your aim somehow! 08:51 <@vayde> here's a noobish quesion: If I chown my dev version of wG to my userid, am I gonna break it? (I realize the mysql parts need to be owned by mysql) 08:53 <+perlDreamer> I suppose that if *everything* was run by your userId, it should work 08:53 <+perlDreamer> apache, and the whole 9 yards 08:54 <@vayde> I suppose I can just do the WebGUI tree. I'm getting sick of typing 'sudo svn ...' 08:54 <+perlDreamer> I use screen and pop open a shell where I sudo su - 08:56 < Radix-wrk> apache uses a port address below 1024 though which cannot be started unless the user is root 08:57 <@vayde> I could just do that I suppose. I just get nervous leaving root terminals sitting around 08:57 < Radix-wrk> just use sudo su 08:57 <+perlDreamer> speaking of committing, don't forget to commit any bug fixes before the release tomorrow 08:58 <+perlDreamer> uh, Wednesday 08:58 <@vayde> right. bug fix releases every wed? 08:59 <+perlDreamer> usually 09:00 <+perlDreamer> catch you guys tomorrow! 09:00 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit [""""] 09:11 <@vayde> I'm off too. Night all, and thanks for the help! 09:11 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 11:27 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has joined #webgui 11:50 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@formsys.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:06 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:37 -!- AMH_bob [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui 15:59 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@177.sub-75-206-97.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI 15:59 < SDuensin> Good morning 16:02 < ckotil> hello 16:06 < SDuensin> Never did get my dev box working last night. :-( 16:06 < SDuensin> (Had to take time to watch "24" though!) 16:06 < ckotil> it was a good episode 16:07 < ckotil> hacker rainman 16:08 < SDuensin> :-) 16:08 < SDuensin> So, got any ideas as to why I can't run the WRE in development mode? 16:11 < ckotil> not a single one. 16:11 < ckotil> ive never ran the wre 16:11 < ckotil> ive attempted to compile it a few times. each has failed 16:13 < SDuensin> I use it for my "live" sites, but I want another copy for working on macros and such. 16:13 < SDuensin> (This is the Ubuntu one, BTW.) 16:13 < ckotil> yah. i run a dev instance of wG too. 16:15 < SDuensin> I want to finish my ACME entry! 16:15 < SDuensin> Seems when I went to 7.3.12 from 7.3.11 that someone said to update something from CPAN. 16:17 < SDuensin> (I ran testEnvironment and it's happy.) 16:24 < ckotil> have you updated POE lately? 16:25 < ckotil> Weather::Com::Finder 16:25 < SDuensin> WTF is POE? 16:25 < SDuensin> Weather, yes. 16:25 < ckotil> DateTime::TimeZone , POE::Component::IKC , 16:26 < ckotil> those are the modules ive updated recently 16:26 < SDuensin> Any way for me to know what I already have installed? 16:27 < ckotil> im not sure how 16:29 < SDuensin> POE sounds familiar. I'll give that a shot. 16:35 < SDuensin> Eh, I'll give that a shot as soon as I unbreak the networking on that VM. Grr. 17:02 -!- mindspin [n=mindspin@p54B270D4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #webgui 17:03 < mindspin> hi is it possible to run both WebGUI 5.8.x and WebGUI 7 on the same machine? 17:04 < SDuensin> Yes, but it won't be fun. :-) 17:04 < mindspin> why so? 17:04 < SDuensin> You'll have to change one of them to use different port numbers for everything as well as not want to store it's data in "/data". 17:05 < mindspin> thats not the main problem cause I already have no directory called data ;-) 17:05 < SDuensin> hehe 17:06 < mindspin> the reason is that 5.8 isrunning so smooth an the users are used to it 17:06 < SDuensin> You could load the WRE into /data and just change the port numbers it uses. It would run it's own copies of Perl, Apache, MySQL, etc. 17:06 < mindspin> but I want to try WebGUI7 17:06 < SDuensin> If you just want to try it, make a demo account on www.plainblack.com. 17:06 < SDuensin> You get full-use of a wG7 install for 24 hours. 17:07 < mindspin> 24 hours is not enough, I want to check it out whenever I have time left :-) 17:07 < mindspin> I'll try it locally 17:07 < SDuensin> FYI, I was a *huge* fan of the 5.x series. Had to leave for technical reasons during the 6.x series. Now that I've played with 7.x, I'm moving EVERYTHING I run back to WebGUI. :-) 17:08 < mindspin> back to 5.8? 17:08 < SDuensin> No, to 7.x. It's VERY nice. 17:09 < mindspin> I am sure it is but I do not want my users to move 17:09 < mindspin> too much teaching needed :-) 17:09 < SDuensin> hehe - I hear ya. 17:10 < SDuensin> One of the guys that used to help me run my 5.x sites is still banging his head against 7. Making progress though! 17:10 < mindspin> the plan is , after testing I want to poit all new users to version 7 17:10 < mindspin> but let the old ones stay with 5.8 17:10 < SDuensin> That'll be a hell of an upgrade. :-) 17:10 < mindspin> yup 17:11 < mindspin> I'm gonna test a doubled install.... 17:11 < mindspin> locally 17:12 < SDuensin> What OS are you doing this on? 17:12 < mindspin> debian sarge 17:12 < SDuensin> Close to mine. I'm in Ubuntu. 17:13 < mindspin> maybe ubuntu-server, Iam not sure which I should use 17:13 < mindspin> ubuntu is a bit more up to date :-) 17:13 < SDuensin> If you're going to build a new VM or machine to try this, the Ubuntu 6.06 LTS distro works great with the WRE. 17:14 < mindspin> Iam not sure which, because my mail system is running perfectly under sarge and I've heard that my mail system may fail on ubuntu... 17:15 < SDuensin> You're on your own there. Mail and I don't get along (yet!). 17:15 < mindspin> hehe 17:15 < SDuensin> We *used* to be friends! Not sure what happened. :-) 17:16 < mindspin> http://workaround.org/articles/ispmail-sarge/ 17:16 -!- bopbop [n=kristi@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 17:16 < mindspin> that's a perfect mail config for me 17:16 < SDuensin> I'm toying with this: http://www.zimbra.com/ 17:17 < mindspin> looks nice 17:18 < mindspin> but is not free in the sense of free beer ;-) 17:18 < ckotil> so're we 17:19 < SDuensin> It's free beer enough for what I need. 17:22 -!- bopbop_ [n=kristi@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 17:22 -!- bopbop [n=kristi@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:23 < pjesi> what is it? not free but free? 17:24 < SDuensin> There's an "open source" version that is free that lacks a few features of the commercial version. 17:25 < pjesi> interesting 17:25 < SDuensin> The way I look at it, if I do enough business that I need the commercial features, they're welcome to the money for helping me get there. 17:25 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #webgui 17:25 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 17:25 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ 17:25 < pjesi> so is it still good as OSS? 17:26 < SDuensin> Yea. The free parts are OSS. It's all explained somewhere on their site. 17:26 < SDuensin> Morning, cga & rizen 17:26 < cga> hi SDuensin and everybody =) 17:26 < pjesi> hi guys 17:27 < pjesi> SDuensin: yeah Im sure it is, I just wanted to ask you personal opinion if the OSS version is worth it 17:27 < SDuensin> For me, it does everything I need. Only thing I'd like is to be able to change the branding. Not a big deal. 17:28 < pjesi> cant you do that on source level? 17:29 < SDuensin> Technically, yes. But the license forbids it. 17:30 < pjesi> I see 17:30 < pjesi> that is one hell of an open source license 17:31 < pjesi> :) 17:34 < pjesi> ahh it is mozilla license 17:34 < SDuensin> Yea, well, it's not the GPL. Still pretty generous for a small start up like me. 17:35 < pjesi> looks great 17:36 < SDuensin> Quite awhile back I looked into using it. Seems they're keeping up on things. Time to try again. 17:36 * SDuensin is trying to bring all his hosted services back in-house. 17:38 < SDuensin> OK, rizen, what's the trick to make the WRE work in development mode on Ubuntu? 17:39 -!- vayde [n=vayde@209.134.142.196] has joined #webgui 17:40 -!- mode/#webgui [+o vayde] by ChanServ 17:42 <@rizen> morning everybody 17:42 <@rizen> sd, no trick, just select yes when asked 17:43 < SDuensin> Grrrr. So says you. :-) 17:43 < SDuensin> It hates me. 17:43 <@rizen> we just did it on vayde's ubuntu box last week 17:43 < SDuensin> OK, I'll completely wipe this thing and start over. 17:43 <@rizen> perhaps he has some pointers for you 17:44 < SDuensin> I'm trying to get the last bit of my ACME stuff done. 17:44 < mindspin> are there ubuntu packages of webgui? for installation via apt-get ? 17:44 < SDuensin> mindspin - not that I know of. Been using the WRE. 17:45 <@vayde> There are ubuntu dapper packages available on sf 17:45 < mindspin> cool 17:45 < mindspin> what is sf? 17:46 <@vayde> sourceforge, sorry 17:46 < mindspin> ic 17:46 <@vayde> http://sf.net/projects/pbwebgui 17:46 < mindspin> thanks 17:47 <@vayde> just make sure you sudo su - while you're doing the install 17:47 <@vayde> sudo and sudo bash won't cut it 17:47 < mindspin> i have root log in enabled on my ubuntu server ;-) 17:48 <@vayde> excellent. 17:48 <@vayde> I spent alot of time (and alot of rizen's time) banging my head against that one 17:48 < mindspin> hehe 17:49 < mindspin> I'm used to sudo after being on ubuntu since hoary, but sudo is not handy for remote administration imho 17:49 < pjesi> I always to sudo bash 17:49 < pjesi> ;) 17:50 <@vayde> depends on the task I suppose. I tend to use sudo until I get sick of typing it 17:51 <@vayde> well, something is different between sudo sudo bash and sudo su -. I don't know the particulars, but they end up different in some subtle way 17:51 -!- bopbop_ [n=kristi@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] 17:51 -!- bopbop [n=kristi@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 17:52 < mindspin> what are the advantages of running wre instead of installing it "the old way" i.e. like for 5.xx 17:52 <@vayde> wre is standardized and easier to support 17:52 -!- bopbop [n=kristi@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:53 -!- bopbop [n=kristi@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 17:54 -!- bopbop_ [n=kristi@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 17:54 -!- bopbop [n=kristi@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:54 < mindspin> I'm still runnig 5.8 because it works without any problems since 2 years now... 17:54 <@vayde> well, if it isn't broke... 17:54 < mindspin> but I want to try WebGUI7 17:55 < mindspin> it isnt 17:55 <@vayde> I can't speak to the differences. 7 is my first experience. I'm lobbying pretty heavily for a buddy to get his clients on it though. 17:56 <@vayde> maybe he'll quit bugging me then 17:56 < SDuensin> 7 is an amazing change from 5. 17:56 < mindspin> I#m sure it is 17:57 < mindspin> but as mentioned before, my users are used to 5.8 and I dont want to let them learn everything new ;-) 17:58 < mindspin> I#d like to run both versions on the same machine and pointing new users to 7 after I learned to use it 17:59 < pjesi> what do you guys (or clients) use WG for? 17:59 < mindspin> most use it for their companie's websites 18:00 < SDuensin> I build personal and company sites with it. 18:00 < pjesi> so they use pretty heavily modified templates? 18:00 < mindspin> yupp 18:00 < mindspin> but they are modified by me :-) 18:00 < pjesi> yeah 18:00 < pjesi> that is what I imagined :) 18:00 < SDuensin> Yep. 18:01 < mindspin> my users are just "users" 18:01 <@vayde> mindspin, that's pretty easy to do 18:01 < mindspin> they know how to upload articles, files and pictures 18:01 -!- AMH_bob [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 1.5.0.10/0000000000]"] 18:01 < mindspin> vayde my idea of dual-running? 18:01 -!- bopbop_ [n=kristi@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] 18:01 <@vayde> yes 18:02 < mindspin> can you point me to a howto? 18:02 -!- bopbop [n=kristi@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 18:02 <@vayde> I don't know if there's an official one. 18:02 <@vayde> but I can walk you through it 18:03 <@vayde> download the latest wre, and we can go to town 18:03 < mindspin> ok lets have alook if my testing machine is still on 18:04 < mindspin> can I do it with ip adress instead of name? 18:04 <@vayde> I would think so, but I don't really know. rizen? 18:04 < mindspin> otherwise I have to fix some dns stuff first 18:05 <@vayde> what we did with mine was set it up on localhost, but with alternate ports 18:05 < mindspin> hostnames are mentioned in the WRE description in the wiki 18:05 <@vayde> so it didn't interfere with my normal ubuntu versions of mysql and apache2 18:06 < mindspin> hehe I'mstill running apache 1.39 18:06 <@vayde> again, if it's not broke... 18:07 <@vayde> Here's the howto: 18:07 <@vayde> Download the wre 18:08 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has left #webgui [] 18:08 <@vayde> make sure there is no /etc/my.cnf the wre's version of mysql will get confused. Luckily, ubuntu puts my.cnf into /etc/mysql 18:08 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 18:08 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ 18:09 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has left #webgui [] 18:10 <@vayde> make a directory: /data (or whatever) 18:10 <@vayde> extract the wre tarball into it 18:10 -!- testingkristi [n=jtsmith@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 18:10 -!- testingkristi [n=jtsmith@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has left #webgui [] 18:11 -!- testingkristi [n=jtsmith@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 18:11 < mindspin> still downloading :-) 18:11 <@vayde> go to /data/wre/prereqs and recursively make the mysql directory owned by the user mysql (assuming the user already exists, if not create it) 18:11 -!- testingkristi [n=jtsmith@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has left #webgui [] 18:11 < mindspin> ok 18:11 < mindspin> noted 18:11 -!- testingkristi [n=jtsmith@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 18:11 <@vayde> type the following: . /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment (note space between . and /) 18:11 -!- testingkristi [n=jtsmith@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has left #webgui [] 18:12 <@vayde> start up the mysql server with /data/wre/sbin rc.mysql start 18:12 <@vayde> verify it's alive 18:12 <@vayde> stop it with /data/wre/sbin/rc.mysql stop 18:13 <@vayde> run /data/wre/sbin/setup 18:13 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 18:13 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ 18:13 <@vayde> make sure that during setup you choose to download WebGUI, as your wre download doesn't include WebGUI 18:14 <@vayde> that one got me 18:14 < mindspin> hehe 18:14 <@vayde> and again, make sure you're fully logged in as root when you do all the rc. commands, cos sudo bash don't cut it 18:14 < mindspin> noted 18:15 <@vayde> you will have to disable the wremonitor script after it's all set up 18:16 <@vayde> You will be told to put a few jobs into crontab, one of those is the wremonitor. put it in but comment it out. 18:16 < SDuensin> Why do you need to disable wremonitor? 18:16 <@vayde> I'm told that won't be a problem with a full enviornment 18:16 -!- bopbop [n=kristi@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] 18:17 <@vayde> i don't know why yet, but it crashes the dev environment under ubuntu 18:17 < SDuensin> Don't I know it! :-) 18:17 < mindspin> maybe for sudo reasons too 18:17 -!- bopbop [n=kmccombs@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 18:18 -!- bopbop [n=kmccombs@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has left #webgui [] 18:18 < pjesi> just do sudo bash 18:18 < pjesi> and your problems are solved 18:18 <@vayde> I believe rizen stated that it would work fine in a non-dev install, but honestly with the info he's pouring into my poor brain, I might be confusing parts 18:18 < mindspin> pjesi i have root enabled 18:19 <@vayde> It might well be my box, but sudo bash won't run the rc.mysql scripts. 18:20 <@vayde> I don't understand the difference, or if it's an ubuntu thing, or what. That's just what was biting me over the weekend. 18:21 -!- bopbop [n=kmccombs@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 18:23 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 18:23 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 18:24 <@vayde> Here's a guess at the sudo issue: sudo bash doesn't read environment settings for root. You inherit them from your login (under ubuntu anyway) 18:24 < mindspin> sounds reasoneable 18:24 <@vayde> sudo su - loads all of root's login files. The difference may well be in there 18:25 <@vayde> pjesi, what are you running on your server? 18:27 < pjesi> wre is running on suse 18:28 < mindspin> vayde: and that's all? where do I tweak the ports? 18:28 <@vayde> the difference is probably an ubuntu thing then. 18:28 <@vayde> Ports can be tweaked in the setup 18:28 < mindspin> ic 18:29 < mindspin> nothing to add to the apache conf? 18:30 <@vayde> nope. the setup will take care of it all 18:30 < mindspin> cool 18:30 < mindspin> I'll have a try tomorrow if anything fails I'll be here ;-) 18:30 <@vayde> besides, between mod_proxy adn mod_perl I don't know if I want to be messing around in there yet. 18:31 < mindspin> mod_perl was a must in 5.8 18:32 <@vayde> I'll be here too. 18:32 < mindspin> :-) 18:32 < mindspin> thanks 18:34 < mindspin> does anybody know who is maintaining the ubuntu packages because I would love to see webgui in universe/multiverse 18:35 < mindspin> rizen? 18:36 <@rizen> mindspin? 18:37 < mindspin> you are mentioned as project admin on sf 18:37 <@rizen> indeed 18:37 < mindspin> did you make the ubuntu packages? 18:37 <@rizen> no 18:37 <@rizen> we only make the redhat, windows, and mac osx packages 18:38 < SDuensin> OSX! Whoo! 18:38 < mindspin> who did the ubuntu one? I'd like to contact him/her for getting it to universe/multiverse 18:38 <@rizen> i honestly don't recall 18:38 <@rizen> i recommend posting a message to the dev mailing list 18:39 < mindspin> thats what i was aking to do ;-) 18:39 < mindspin> just asking 18:39 < mindspin> I'll do 18:42 < mindspin> whats the address of the dv ml? 18:42 < mindspin> dev ml 18:42 <@rizen> webguidev@plainblack.com 18:42 < mindspin> thanks 18:42 <@rizen> but you can't email it unless you're subscribed to it 18:42 <@rizen> http://www.plainblack.com/discuss 18:43 < mindspin> ah I thought i would not receive mails but could write 18:43 < mindspin> thanks 18:43 <@rizen> nope...that would allow much spam 19:26 < pjesi> rizen: I only see a message board, how can I subscribe to the list? 19:27 <@rizen> you have to be logged in 19:27 < pjesi> I am 19:27 <@rizen> and then a subscribe link will appear at the top of the board 19:27 <@rizen> not on the discuss page 19:27 <@rizen> but on the individual boards 19:27 < pjesi> ahh sorry, I am blind 19:30 -!- MrHairgreas1 [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui 19:31 < mindspin> sorry i am logged in but see no button for the ml 19:31 -!- MrHairgreas1 [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] 19:31 -!- MrHairgreas1 [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui 19:31 -!- MrHairgreas1 [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] 19:32 -!- MrHairgreas1 [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui 19:32 -!- MrHairgreas1 [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] 19:32 <@rizen> pjesi just found it, perhaps he can describe better than me 19:32 -!- MrHairgreas1 [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui 19:34 < pjesi> mindspin: http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/dev/discuss 19:34 < mindspin> yeah 19:34 < pjesi> direct link: http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/dev/discuss?func=subscribe :D 19:34 < mindspin> and by hitting the subscribe buttun I am added to the list? 19:35 <@rizen> yup 19:35 < mindspin> so i was blindminded... 19:58 < bopbop> Radix- you're up on the site 19:58 < bopbop> Congratulations 19:58 < bopbop> and thanks 19:59 <@preaction> bopbop: what are you using for IRC client? 20:08 -!- MrHairgreas1 [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] 20:29 < ckotil> k. this is wierd. the admin console hide/show issue disappeared 21:06 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui 21:06 -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ 21:33 < ckotil> increasing the # of running workflows didnt help speed up the posting process. i used to create a scheduled event to purge the file cache. any reason why this is a bad idea? 21:34 < ckotil> s/used to/will once again 21:46 -!- bopbop_ [n=kmccombs@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 21:46 -!- bopbop [n=kmccombs@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:47 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["90% of the problems that people have with GNU/Linux are to impute to Windows."] 21:58 -!- mode/#webgui [+o bopbop_] by rizen 22:00 < ckotil> this must be a bug, ERROR - spectre.conf - POE::Kernel::_dispatch_event[1013], when i create a scheduled event to clear the file cache 22:07 <@rizen> i'm not sure how you have it set up 22:07 <@rizen> it may be a bug 22:07 <@rizen> it may be a config issue 22:07 <@rizen> i do know that clearing the cache works when it's in the maintenance workflow 22:07 <@rizen> but you may have discovered some sort of corner case 22:07 < ckotil> im pretty certain its config'd properly. ill cap a screen of it 22:08 < ckotil> ?? pastebin 22:09 < ckotil> eh, ill write it down somewhere 22:10 <@rizen> perlbot pastebin? 22:10 < perlbot> (see paste) 22:10 <@rizen> perlbot paste? 22:10 < perlbot> Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it. 22:12 -!- vayde [n=vayde@209.134.142.196] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:15 < ckotil> http://paste.biz/paste-1327.html 22:16 -!- vayde [n=vayde@209.134.142.196] has joined #webgui 22:16 -!- mode/#webgui [+o vayde] by ChanServ 22:17 * SDuensin is going to scream 22:18 < SDuensin> The new install I just did does the same thing as the old one. You fill in the setup info after starting wG and it just keeps asking for it. 22:19 <@preaction> ctrl+reload after you are asked to re-enter the info? 22:20 < SDuensin> I did. About six more finally got the point across. :-) Thanks. Kinda frazzled over here. 22:43 -!- mindspin [n=mindspin@p54B270D4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:52 < SDuensin> How can I determine the complete path of a file in the asset system so I can open it in my code? I looked at what ^FileUrl() returns and it's close, but not quite, everything I need. 22:54 <@preaction> you might also need the config "uploadsPath" value? 22:54 < SDuensin> Not sure. Do I? :-) 22:54 <@preaction> so we're talking a WebGUI::Asset::File correct? 22:54 < SDuensin> Yes. 22:55 < SDuensin> I want to be able to pass a URL into my macro and have it directly open the file off the filesystem. 22:55 <@preaction> if you use getStorageLocation you can do more 22:55 -!- bopbop_ [n=kmccombs@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:55 -!- bopbop [n=kmccombs@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 22:55 <@preaction> so you're using the URL and WebGUI::Asset->newByUrl to instanctiate a WebGUI::Asset::File object? 22:56 < SDuensin> Not doing anything yet. I was just looking at the FileUrl() macro to see if it was close to what I needed. 22:57 <@preaction> if you get the storage location, you can use the getFileContentsAsScalar maybe? or getPath if you want 22:57 * SDuensin is digging through docs. 23:03 < SDuensin> Perfect. That's just what I needed. Right in front of me, too. Dunno why I didn't see it before! 23:03 <@preaction> because there's a Lot to sort through? 23:03 < SDuensin> To say the least. Still, you can't complain about *too* many docs! 23:09 -!- bopbop [n=kmccombs@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:16 <@rizen> hannibal et portus 23:37 < SDuensin> GACK! *SO* close to having this work! 23:38 < SDuensin> Oh well. More later. I need to go pick up my little girl from daycare. Later all! 23:38 < ckotil> cya 23:38 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@177.sub-75-206-97.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:49 < ckotil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQJSZs-euZU --- Day changed Wed Mar 28 2007 00:44 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has left #webgui [] 02:35 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui 02:35 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ 02:37 <+MrHairgrease> preaction 02:37 <+MrHairgrease> did my fix do the jib? 02:38 <+MrHairgrease> the dual time() call hat is 02:43 <@preaction> let me check 02:44 <@preaction> MrHairgrease: no, there's 5 new ones since yesterday :( 02:44 <+MrHairgrease> i figured so much 02:44 <+MrHairgrease> the chances of that fucking up were very slim 02:45 <+MrHairgrease> still the change should be committed though 02:45 <+MrHairgrease> imho that is 02:45 <@preaction> feel free 02:46 <+MrHairgrease> sure 02:46 <@preaction> it's probably one contributing factor 02:46 <@preaction> we may be looking for a smoking gun when it's more a series of holes 02:46 <+MrHairgrease> i don't think so 02:46 <+MrHairgrease> but it is a race condition 02:46 <+MrHairgrease> it prolly happens once a year or so 02:46 <+MrHairgrease> or even lees 02:46 <+MrHairgrease> due to that 02:49 <+MrHairgrease> well 02:49 <+MrHairgrease> gotto go and sleep 02:50 <@preaction> lazy euros 02:50 <+MrHairgrease> those damned timezones =) 02:50 <@preaction> 7:00pm and already sleeping 02:50 <+MrHairgrease> hip and fashionable eurotrash 02:50 <@preaction> tut tut 02:50 <@preaction> that MAY be 02:50 <+MrHairgrease> with lots o sex appeal 02:50 <@preaction> but we don't complain about a 34 hour work week 02:50 <+MrHairgrease> =) 02:50 <+MrHairgrease> later guys 02:51 <@preaction> cy 02:51 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] 03:26 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui 03:26 < Radix-wrk> Mornin ppls 03:29 <@preaction> you haven't heard yet, have you? 03:29 < Radix-wrk> yes, I have 03:30 <@preaction> do this for me: /msg nickserv link radix 03:31 < Radix-wrk> Unfortunately someone else has the nick Radix on here. 03:31 <@preaction> sunnuva 03:31 <@preaction> do you own radix-wrk? 03:31 < Radix-wrk> yeah, I do 03:31 <@preaction> kk 03:32 < Radix-wrk> Ahh.. hehe.. cool 03:32 <@preaction> why didn't it voice you then? 03:32 <@preaction> must have to rejoin 03:32 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has left #webgui ["Leaving"] 03:32 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui 03:33 -!- mode/#webgui [+v Radix-wrk] by ChanServ 03:33 <@preaction> tada! 03:33 <+Radix-wrk> :) 03:33 <@preaction> about time you joined the +v ranks, congratulations 03:33 <+Radix-wrk> you got access to edit my interview btw? there's a link that got added somehow in the cut/paste 03:34 <@preaction> and they're all broken anyway 03:34 <@preaction> i'll fix it 03:34 <+Radix-wrk> the commctrl.com link 03:34 <+Radix-wrk> I think that's yours or someone elses 03:35 <+Radix-wrk> yeah, it's yours :) 03:35 <@preaction> btw you are a sexy beast 03:35 <@preaction> fixed 03:35 <+Radix-wrk> I know I know.. but I'm taken, sorry. 03:36 <+Radix-wrk> cheers :) 03:47 <+Radix-wrk> Hmm.. looks like the smiley I put in turned into a question mark too on that interview - on the question where it asks if I have any kids. 04:56 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui 04:57 * PedersenMJ wavies. 05:01 -!- vayde [n=vayde@209.134.142.196] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 05:06 <+Radix-wrk> Hi PedersenMJ 05:07 < PedersenMJ> How's it going? 05:07 <+Radix-wrk> I'm famous - did you hear? 05:08 < PedersenMJ> Hmmm, must not be so much. Or I live a very sheltered life. So, nope, not yet :) 05:08 <+Radix-wrk> Oh well.. here I was thinking I could date Angelina Jolie now.. bummer. 05:09 < PedersenMJ> Why? I mean, I suppose I could see having sex with her, but why date? 05:10 < PedersenMJ> Oh, who am I could, it's not an "I suppose". I could definitely see having sex with her. But date her? Nah. 05:10 <+Radix-wrk> you have a point :) 05:11 < PedersenMJ> Anyway, why for you famous? 05:11 <+Radix-wrk> http://www.plainblack.com/support 05:12 < PedersenMJ> Hey, cool! I didn't know that was you! 05:12 * Radix-wrk bows. 05:12 <+Radix-wrk> http://gallery.menalto.com/node/8041 05:16 < PedersenMJ> Cool interview. 05:17 <+Radix-wrk> I should've attached a picture of my niece hugging Gooey tho I reckon :) 05:17 < PedersenMJ> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHzdsFiBbFc 05:18 <+Radix-wrk> hehe.. seen that one :) 05:18 <+Radix-wrk> if you want to read something interesting - check this out - http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=829 05:24 < PedersenMJ> Had heard about that at some point along the way, but still always a fascinating read. 05:25 <+Radix-wrk> yeah, lots of interesting stuff on that website - hence the name I guess ;) 05:26 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has joined #webgui 05:26 -!- mode/#webgui [+o vayde] by ChanServ 05:26 <+Radix-wrk> Hi vayde 05:27 <@vayde> hey 05:33 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:37 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has joined #webgui 05:37 -!- mode/#webgui [+o vayde] by ChanServ 05:43 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 05:43 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has joined #webgui 05:43 -!- mode/#webgui [+o vayde] by ChanServ 05:44 <@vayde> heh. apparently I'm like a cat: I can't decide if I want to be in or out 05:45 < Hinrik> or a penis 05:45 <@vayde> In definitely. 06:29 < PedersenMJ> Damn. There's times that python can be very elegant. And times when it makes me want to remove the genitals of the developers, stew them up, and force feed them back. 06:29 < PedersenMJ> No, I'm not asking for assist, as I know this is perl here, and not python. But I needed to vent a bit over the program I'm working on :) 06:49 -!- vayde_ [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has joined #webgui 06:49 -!- vayde_ [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:49 -!- vayde_ [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has joined #webgui 06:49 -!- vayde_ [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:50 -!- vayde_ [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has joined #webgui 06:51 -!- vayde_ [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:51 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:54 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has joined #webgui 06:54 -!- mode/#webgui [+o vayde] by ChanServ 07:24 < PedersenMJ> Now, off to bed. Later all. 07:24 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [] 07:25 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has quit [] 09:10 -!- Netsplit leguin.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: @vayde 09:10 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @vayde 10:53 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:08 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:38 -!- AMH_bob [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui 13:00 -!- AMH_bob [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 1.5.0.10/0000000000]"] 13:38 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Radix_ 15:10 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #webgui 16:49 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@106.sub-75-207-197.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI 16:49 < SDuensin> Greetings. 16:50 < ckotil> hi 17:10 < SDuensin> I *almost* have my ACME stuff working! 17:19 < ckotil> nice 17:24 < SDuensin> What do you know about WebGUI::Storage? 17:26 < SDuensin> perlbot paste? 17:26 < perlbot> Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it. 17:28 < SDuensin> I did this: 17:28 < SDuensin> http://sial.org/pbot/23839 17:29 < SDuensin> It seems to work, however, the filename returned by the last line doesn't exist. The temp folder the file is supposed to be in *does* exist. Just no image file. 17:30 < ckotil> where do you set $filename ? 17:30 < ckotil> $store too 17:30 < SDuensin> $store comes from that block of code. $filename is something I made up. Assume it equals "myimage.png". 17:31 < ckotil> nvm i see $store 17:34 < ckotil> perhaps my $store = WebGUI::Storage::Image->createTemp($session); shoudl be my $store = WebGUI::Storage::Image->createTemp($self->session); 17:36 < SDuensin> Honestly, I have no idea. Rizen gave me that line. :-) 17:36 < ckotil> i was just reading from http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds/7.3.13-stable/api/Storage.html 17:37 < SDuensin> It's almost like the $image->saveToStorageLocation($store) method isn't doing anything or is erroring out. 17:38 < ckotil> that would make sense. bc i dont see savetostorage as one of the methods in WebGUI::Storage 17:39 < SDuensin> It's in WebGUI::Image 17:39 < ckotil> o 17:43 -!- estivenrpo [n=estivenr@200.58.205.236] has joined #webgui 17:44 < SDuensin> Hello, estivenrpo 17:45 < estivenrpo> Hi 17:48 < estivenrpo> i have a cuestion about the dataform and macros... 17:49 < estivenrpo> any can help me ? 17:50 < SDuensin> Macros, probably. Dataform? Probably not me. 17:52 < estivenrpo> thank you, any way i have a lot of questions, i hope somebody can help me 17:53 < estivenrpo> the idea is to set up a CMS that centralizes othe CMS, we have to do it because we need different levels of karma. And with a single CMS there is only global karma 17:54 < estivenrpo> not karma per community for example 17:55 < SDuensin> Interesting. 17:55 < estivenrpo> do you think is possible to tweak the karma code to allow WebGui to manage different levels of Karma ? 17:56 < estivenrpo> . 17:57 < estivenrpo> so...? 17:57 < ckotil> its possible 17:57 * SDuensin has no idea. Sorry. 17:57 < estivenrpo> thank you SDuensin 17:57 < ckotil> all things are possible with webgui 17:57 < SDuensin> :-) 17:58 < estivenrpo> no doubt, but how? 17:58 < ckotil> it will take some custom coding 17:58 < estivenrpo> of course, whre should we start? 17:59 < estivenrpo> (and in your opinion, how long could it take?) 17:59 < ckotil> sometime today, some of the dev's will be active in here and will be able to give you a real answer, and some direction 18:00 < ckotil> depends if you hacked up the core code, or if you somehow were able to write a macro to handle this 18:03 < ckotil> im thinking the macro would work as follows...you have a global karma count which contains karma for all the sites combined. then the macro would subtract the amount of karma of all the OTHER sites, except for hte site the user is currently in 18:03 < ckotil> and then you would have a unique karma count for each subsite 18:03 < ckotil> the macro would keep track of teh subsites macro in its own table. 18:04 < ckotil> err. the subsites karma in its own table 18:16 < estivenrpo> mmm... it would work for counting... however when someone gets karma on a site, it will be added to the global karma, but when the macro substracts the karmas excepting the current site karma... how could it know where the karma was gotten? 18:16 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 18:16 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 18:17 < SDuensin> Morning, preaction 18:19 < ckotil> the macro would know the users current location. i.e. where the user was in the site when he recieved the karma 18:22 < estivenrpo> I like your idea, the problema is that we would need to manage too many sites, and many ways to get karma, so we would have to put the macro on each thing that gives karma on each site.... must be a way to centralize the macro... tweak the core maybe... 18:23 < ckotil> ya 18:24 < estivenrpo> if this is the best option. we'd have to to do it with the webgui guys, if not it would be a fork and the updates will brake 18:24 < estivenrpo> what do you think? 18:24 < ckotil> are you prepared to drop a few thousand dollars on this? 18:24 < ckotil> it COULD be built into the core 18:25 < estivenrpo> 1 thousand or 9999 thousand? jejeje 18:26 < ckotil> a few. ~3 18:26 < SDuensin> Hell, I'll do it for 9999 thousand. :-) 18:26 < ckotil> you'd have to get a quote from pb 18:26 < ckotil> im just guessing what it would cost 18:27 < estivenrpo> me too, i would pay the 3 thousand and keep the remainder! jejeje 18:27 < ckotil> haha 18:28 < ckotil> are you planning on running a single site with webgui, then having a bunch of subsections/subsites that need to have their own karma count? 18:28 < estivenrpo> I e-mailed dev@plainblack... no answers, is any dev here ???? 18:28 < estivenrpo> exactly 18:28 < estivenrpo> i also tought to use a webgui for each site, the problem there is integrating the authentication 18:29 < SDuensin> LDAP 18:29 < ckotil> i use a single sign on service, known as CAS 18:29 < ckotil> the university maintains it, i just authenticate with it, then webgui authorizes once it recieves the OK from the CAS server 18:30 < estivenrpo> LDAP was implemented, but we could not find a way to pass the users thorugh different CMS without login again 18:31 < estivenrpo> do you use CAS to validate different CMSs ? 18:31 < ckotil> single instance of webgui 18:32 < ckotil> then i create subsites by using subdir's. i.e. globalnoc.iu.edu/site1 globalnoc.iu.edu/site2 ...etc... 18:32 < ckotil> and i do some clever url mod_rewriting 18:32 < ckotil> so that each subsite appears to have its own domain 18:33 < estivenrpo> maybe the parameters could be pass using the POST method, but it is a security hole 18:33 < estivenrpo> :( 18:33 < ckotil> just dont pass the password 18:33 < ckotil> need to have some random generated key 18:34 < estivenrpo> mmm... sounds cool 18:34 < ckotil> investigate some single sign on solutions 18:35 < ckotil> jasig CAS is the CAS version maintained by yale university , that is still in development. 18:35 < ckotil> my university chose to develop its own versoin of CAS. 18:35 < ckotil> its kind of lame. my group is planning on moving away from it soon. 18:37 < estivenrpo> do you think is easier to redevelop the karma in the webgui core or redevelop the webgui authentication system? 18:38 < ckotil> webgui is known for its pluggable authentication. so, id have to say redeveloping the auth. system will be much easier 18:38 < ckotil> i developed CAS.pm in about a day 18:39 <@rizen> estivenrpo, since i talked to you on the boards about this yesterday, it couldn't be more than 24 hours since you sent the email 18:39 <@rizen> be patient 18:40 < SDuensin> rizen! Morning. 18:41 -!- Vrby [n=Vrby@d35-5.rb.lax.centurytel.net] has joined #webgui 18:41 <@rizen> top of the morning to you sd 18:42 -!- Vrby [n=Vrby@d35-5.rb.lax.centurytel.net] has left #webgui [] 18:47 < SDuensin> Hey rizen - couple things... Any ideas on my file saving issue (see scrollback)? And I found a toolkit that looks perfect for doing the app-server stuff we were talking about before. :-) 18:51 <@rizen> i've never used WebGUI::Image 18:51 <@rizen> but if you follow how the poll works then it should work just fine, cuz the poll works just fine 18:52 < SDuensin> Ok, I'll have to dig that up. 18:52 <@rizen> what toolkit is that? 18:52 < SDuensin> Go read this: http://qooxdoo.org/ 18:52 < SDuensin> They're even nice enough to include a Perl RPC component. :-) 18:53 < ckotil> how do you even pronounce that? 18:53 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui 18:53 -!- mode/#webgui [+v crythias] by ChanServ 18:53 <@rizen> and why exactly is that better than YUI? 18:53 < SDuensin> Not a frickin' clue. 18:53 < SDuensin> WTF is YUI? 18:54 < SDuensin> Ah. 18:54 <@rizen> the web2.0 framework 18:54 <@rizen> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdeveloper.yahoo.com%2Fyui%2F&ei=m48KRtWkMZWgogLGjqEG&usg=__nw2ZV3YRM3xD8lAeNd5oXN2Xe4U=&sig2=9q3apGRDUux8IQ3r3yw6DA 18:54 <@rizen> that webgui uses 18:54 <@rizen> already 18:54 < SDuensin> Wow. YUI has gotten bigger since I last saw it. :-) 18:55 < SDuensin> Not sure, but Qooxdoo is frickin' sweet. 18:55 < SDuensin> I love the transparency effects they have on their windows. 18:59 <@rizen> don't get me wrong, it does look cool 18:59 <@rizen> but it doesn't seem to be as rich as yui 18:59 < SDuensin> I'm not that familiar with YUI. Wasn't impressed the first time I saw it. That was right after release though. 19:01 <@rizen> YUI isn't "flashy". Don't get me wrong, it can do some amazing effects. However, it's primary objective is to provide a really flexible API. 19:01 <@rizen> So it's goals are more inline with WebGUI. Get the job done, worry about glitz later. 19:02 <@rizen> In that way, it doesn't provide you with all the controls like qooxdoo, but it provides you with the API's to be able to build them. 19:02 <@rizen> And that's far more important for what we do. 19:02 < SDuensin> That's a Good Thing. I really liked the approach Qooxdoo took, too. It looks very well designed and clean. I'll have to read more about YUI. 19:03 < SDuensin> One thing that caught my eye on the Qooxdoo roadmap was they want to provide for better ways to integrate applications written using it with "page-based" systems. Sounded like what we talked about. --- Log closed Wed Mar 28 19:14:16 2007 --- Log opened Wed Mar 28 19:39:27 2007 19:39 -!- xdanger [i=xdanger@217.112.244.70] has joined #webgui 19:39 -!- Irssi: #webgui: Total of 15 nicks [2 ops, 0 halfops, 2 voices, 11 normal] 19:39 -!- Irssi: Join to #webgui was synced in 3 secs --- Log closed Wed Mar 28 19:45:37 2007 --- Log opened Wed Mar 28 20:00:51 2007 20:00 -!- xdanger [i=xdanger@217.112.244.70] has joined #webgui 20:00 -!- Irssi: #webgui: Total of 16 nicks [2 ops, 0 halfops, 3 voices, 11 normal] 20:00 -!- Irssi: Join to #webgui was synced in 3 secs 20:30 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["90% of the problems that people have with GNU/Linux are to impute to Windows."] 20:32 -!- estivenrpo [n=estivenr@200.58.205.236] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:49 < ckotil> how can i make webgui (or is it apache?) accept a 70MB file pile upload? 20:51 <@rizen> apache can do it 20:51 <@rizen> there are two things that may be blocking you 20:51 <@rizen> bandwidth 20:51 <@rizen> and the webgui max upload size 20:52 <@rizen> max upload size is controlled in the Admin Console > Settings > Content 20:52 <@rizen> bandwidth is a matter of timeouts 20:52 <@rizen> if it takes longer to upload your content, than apache's timeout settings 20:52 <@rizen> then you won't be able to upload it 20:52 <@rizen> my guess is though that the max upload size is where you should start 20:54 < ckotil> ah 20:54 < ckotil> max_body_limit 20:55 <@rizen> what is max body limit? 20:56 <@rizen> is that an apache setting? 20:56 < ckotil> its what im seeing as the bottle neck in the error log 20:56 < ckotil> [Wed Mar 28 17:38:38 2007] [error] [client 129.79.9.43] (20014)Error string not specified yet: Content-Length header (69462367) exceeds configured max_body limit (67108864), referer: http://globalnoc.iu.edu/irnclinks/presentations.html?func=add;class=WebGUI::Asset::FilePile;proceed=manageAssets 20:56 <@rizen> oh, right, then that's internally what apache is probably calling it 20:56 <@rizen> that is controlled by the max upload size in webgui settings 20:56 < ckotil> hrm, but i cant find where to edit this ' max_body_limit' 20:56 <@rizen> are you even reading what i'm saying? 20:56 < SDuensin> Admin panel. Settings. 20:56 < ckotil> ive upped the wg setting to 90000 20:57 < ckotil> yes. 20:57 <@rizen> 90,000 is only 90,000 bytes 20:57 < ckotil> ah. 20:57 < ckotil> 90 000 000 then 20:57 <@rizen> since you're uploading stuff that big 20:58 <@rizen> you might as well just do 99999999999 20:58 < ckotil> its a 1 time deal. 20:58 < ckotil> hrm, still the apache setting is preventing me 20:58 -!- wgGuest34 [n=wgGuest3@83.228.8.109] has joined #webgui 20:59 -!- wgGuest34 [n=wgGuest3@83.228.8.109] has quit [Client Quit] 20:59 <@rizen> don't know 20:59 <@rizen> i haven't seen that setting before 21:00 <@rizen> perhaps it's something that's hard compiled into your local apache 21:05 < ckotil> seems its aka post_max 21:12 < ckotil> APREQ2_ReadLimit httpd.conf variable did it 21:18 <@rizen> MrHairgrease: it appears that you have a little competition now 21:18 <@rizen> Radix with his 8ball, and Patspam with his "Come back" workflow activity 21:18 * SDuensin with his broken macro 21:18 <@rizen> and SDuenins is hard at work 21:18 <@rizen> hehe 21:18 <@rizen> yeah 21:18 <@rizen> that 21:19 < SDuensin> I manage to get it to save an image, but it saves *two* of them. 21:19 <@rizen> i still say that my BASIC macro should be the winner of the contest 21:20 <@rizen> it's way cooler than everything else 21:20 <@rizen> if only because it's written by me 21:20 <@rizen> =) 21:20 < SDuensin> It is pretty spiffy. 21:20 < SDuensin> My macro is kind of the same "vintage" as yours. 21:20 < ckotil> i wish i had my old qbasic programs from back in the day 21:20 < ckotil> i wrote monopoly 21:21 <@rizen> i wrote battleship in both basic and pascal back in the day 21:21 <@rizen> i wish i had those too 21:21 <@rizen> monopoly seems quite a bit harder than battleship though 21:21 < SDuensin> I did an ANSI terminal that had graphics, sound, music, gamepad, mouse, etc. support. Kicked the crap out of RIPterm. :-) 21:22 <@rizen> did your monopoly have AI players? 21:22 < ckotil> no 21:22 <@rizen> my battleship had 4 levels of AI 21:22 <@rizen> but you couldn't play against another player, only the AI 21:22 < ckotil> but it had a sweet animation sequence moving around the board 21:22 <@rizen> because there was no way to hide the screen from the other peeps 21:22 < ckotil> heh , ya 21:22 <@rizen> awesome 21:23 < SDuensin> Hey, my post build event exited with code 2. Thanks. That's very helpful, Microsoft. 21:23 <@rizen> heh 21:25 < SDuensin> I really wish I could write Linux or Mac software for a living instead. 21:26 <@rizen> why can't you? 21:27 < SDuensin> Mainly, because I have a family and can't afford to starve while playing "Startup". 21:28 < SDuensin> I do some stuff on the side, but it's just enough to be annoying. :-) 21:30 <@rizen> but you could go to work for a company that does that stuff 21:30 <@rizen> without starting your own business 21:30 <@rizen> that way you can have your family, and the job you want too 21:31 < SDuensin> I'm in St. Louis. All I've ever found out here is IT work for companies that do internal development. I'm actually lucky to not be stuck with 100% MS tools and languages. 21:31 <+perlDreamer> you could work for a company that allows telecommuters 21:31 <@rizen> i c. you need a telecommuting job 21:31 <@rizen> yeah 21:31 <@rizen> though, they are rare 21:32 <+perlDreamer> I know some people that work for a very good telecommuting company 21:32 <+perlDreamer> good software 21:32 <+perlDreamer> strong IRC community 21:32 < ckotil> some companys are switching to a 'butt in seat' policy. i.e. no telecommuting 21:32 <+perlDreamer> that would be my company 21:32 < ckotil> im allowed to telecommutte 1 day a week 21:32 < SDuensin> Telecommuting would be cool. I can do that on occasion here. 21:32 <@rizen> oh, speaking of telecommuting jobs...we're going to have another opening. this time for a "Troubleshooting Perlhead" 21:33 < SDuensin> If I did that, I'd seriously have to set up a real office at home. 21:33 * SDuensin is more of a Troublemaking Perlhead. 21:33 < ckotil> you mean hire PD? 21:33 <@rizen> i'd love to hire PD 21:33 <@rizen> but he wants $100k per year 21:33 <@rizen> =) 21:33 < ckotil> heh 21:34 < SDuensin> Yea, well, don't we all. :-P 21:34 <@rizen> mainly cuz he's supporting his wife through grad school 21:34 <+perlDreamer> she isn't even in grad school yet 21:34 <@rizen> oh, crap...was i not supposed to say that pd? 21:34 <+perlDreamer> but she's pulling a 4.0 21:34 <+perlDreamer> no, I have no secrets 21:34 <+perlDreamer> Portland is expensive 21:35 <+MrHairgrease> rizen 21:35 <+MrHairgrease> don't worry 21:35 <+MrHairgrease> i'm finishing the acme thingy that will smas your basic macro into oblivion 21:35 <+MrHairgrease> b/c you wrote it =) 21:35 <@rizen> i haven't seen your new killer ACME thing yet 21:35 <+MrHairgrease> you have seen it 21:35 <@rizen> i mean, i've seen it personally 21:35 <@rizen> but it's not up on the site 21:35 <@rizen> so it doesn't count 21:36 <+MrHairgrease> that's b/c i'm _finishing_ it right now 21:36 <@rizen> only 3 days left 21:36 <+MrHairgrease> i know 21:36 <+MrHairgrease> np 21:36 * SDuensin needs help to finish. Stupid Image API! 21:36 <+MrHairgrease> don't say that 21:36 <@rizen> MrHairgrease wrote it 21:36 <@rizen> you should get help from him 21:36 <+MrHairgrease> help the competition???? 21:37 < SDuensin> Good! Then he can tell me why it's saving two files! 21:37 <+MrHairgrease> well ok 21:37 <+MrHairgrease> dunno 21:37 < SDuensin> My guess is that one is the file and one is a thumbnail. 21:37 <@rizen> what are the file names? 21:37 <@rizen> if one has a "thumb-" in it 21:37 <@rizen> then it is 21:37 < SDuensin> Nope. 21:37 <+MrHairgrease> it shouldn't do that 21:37 <+MrHairgrease> file a bug report =) 21:38 < SDuensin> They're GUIDs I get from $session. One is like "guid-0.png" and the other is "guid-1.png". 21:38 <+MrHairgrease> i can't check it out without a code snippet 21:38 <+MrHairgrease> you can email it to me 21:38 < SDuensin> Working on one. :-) 21:39 <+MrHairgrease> martin a t oqapi.nl 21:39 < SDuensin> It's tiny. I can pastebin it. 21:39 <+MrHairgrease> ok 21:40 < SDuensin> http://sial.org/pbot/23847 21:40 < SDuensin> One question I have is if my drawing on $magick actually alters $image. If so, then I have another bug to track down. (I want it to, but the two PNGs it saves are blank!) 21:41 <+MrHairgrease> let me read the code again 21:41 <+MrHairgrease> it has been some time 21:41 < SDuensin> Thanks 21:42 <@rizen> perlDreamer: what if i don't feel like puting out a release today? 21:42 <+MrHairgrease> what do you mean by change $image? 21:43 < SDuensin> What I *think* I'm doing is getting a new image created with Image->new, then getting a reference to it so I can draw on it with the ImageMagick API. But I bet I have a copy of it. 21:44 < SDuensin> Or can I directly manipulate $image->image? 21:44 <+MrHairgrease> It works like this 21:44 <+MrHairgrease> WG::Image is sort of a wrpper for image magick 21:44 <+MrHairgrease> this means that it uses an instance of Image::Magick as a basis 21:45 <+MrHairgrease> the image() method return the Image::Magick instance it is based on 21:45 <+MrHairgrease> so 21:45 <+MrHairgrease> do not use $img->image->new 21:45 <+perlDreamer> rizen: I think you're allowed not to put out a release today 21:46 <+MrHairgrease> afaik new is a class method in Image::Magick 21:46 <+perlDreamer> especially if you're half as tired as I am 21:46 <+MrHairgrease> if you want to create another image use WebGUI::Image->new 21:46 < SDuensin> $image->image->Set('pixel[10,10]'=>'white'); <-- That OK? 21:46 <@rizen> i might just put it out late 21:46 <+MrHairgrease> yeah 21:46 <+MrHairgrease> you can do that 21:47 <+perlDreamer> vayde needs to be op'ed when he's in channel 21:47 <+perlDreamer> and Radix in at least one of his incarnations needs to be voiced since he's PBWG now 21:47 <+MrHairgrease> I don't know why saveToStorageLocation is saving two files though 21:48 <+MrHairgrease> it should only save one 21:49 <+perlDreamer> we should find the guy who wrote that API and make him fix it! 21:49 <+MrHairgrease> maybe 21:49 < SDuensin> Tried it again. Still get two, and they seem to be empty PNGs (which could be another problem, I dunno). 21:49 <+MrHairgrease> if that guy has time tonight 21:49 <+MrHairgrease> he will fixe it 21:50 < SDuensin> Let me save it using saveToFileSystem as well as the storage stuff. See if it writes the same thing out. 21:51 <+MrHairgrease> The poll uses the same scheme 21:51 <+MrHairgrease> and that works right 21:51 <+MrHairgrease> ? 21:51 <+MrHairgrease> 401 my $storage = WebGUI::Storage::Image->createTemp($self->session); 21:51 <+MrHairgrease> 402 my $filename = 'poll'.$self->session->id->generate.".png"; 21:51 <+MrHairgrease> 403 $graph->saveToStorageLocation($storage, $filename); 21:51 < SDuensin> Kinda. It uses Graph instead of Image. 21:51 < SDuensin> But yea, that's where I copied from. 21:52 <+MrHairgrease> WebGUI::Image::Graph is just an extension of WebGUI::Image 21:52 <+MrHairgrease> it doesn't iomplement the save* routines 21:52 <+MrHairgrease> it just inherits 21:53 < SDuensin> I get exactly the same thing using saveToFileSystem, other than it uses my filename as the base name and my specified path. 21:53 <+MrHairgrease> Weird 21:53 < SDuensin> So, $image->saveToFileSystem("/tmp/", "image.png"); produces /tmp/image-0.png and /tmp/image-1.png. 21:53 <+MrHairgrease> can you send me your fulll macro 21:54 < SDuensin> I'm kind of embarrassed to show anyone the code. It's hack-a-licious! 21:54 <+MrHairgrease> who cares 21:55 <+MrHairgrease> my code aparently doesn't work 21:55 <+MrHairgrease> =) 21:55 < SDuensin> Working on getting it somewhere I can mail from. 21:58 <+MrHairgrease> ok 22:00 < SDuensin> Sent. 22:00 < SDuensin> (Man, now my secret project is out!) 22:00 <+MrHairgrease> don't worry 22:00 <+MrHairgrease> I just did a test script 22:00 <+MrHairgrease> and that generates only one file 22:01 < SDuensin> ?! 22:01 < SDuensin> Weird. 22:01 <+MrHairgrease> let me try your macro 22:01 < SDuensin> Then again, I never said I knew what I was doing. :-) 22:12 <+MrHairgrease> I'll be darned 22:12 <+MrHairgrease> it does the same here 22:12 < SDuensin> Weirdness. :-) 22:12 < SDuensin> But - I'm NOT INSANE! :-D 22:12 <+MrHairgrease> ok 22:12 <+MrHairgrease> if you say so 22:13 < SDuensin> Yea. There is the macro itself. 22:15 <+MrHairgrease> I'm trying to find out what sick crap you're pulling inside that puppy =) 22:15 <+MrHairgrease> hang on 22:15 < SDuensin> hehehee 22:15 < SDuensin> It's pretty much as un-optimal as I could make it. 22:16 < SDuensin> I mean, come on! I was reading off 25+ year old hardware specs to write it! 22:16 <+MrHairgrease> ok 22:16 < SDuensin> The really fugly part is that I embedded two other packages so people don't need to install them from CPAN just to run this dumb thing. 22:16 <+MrHairgrease> solved the double filename thingy 22:16 < SDuensin> How!? 22:17 <+MrHairgrease> do not use $image->image->ReadImage('xc:black'); 22:17 <+MrHairgrease> but $image->setBackgroundColor('#000000'); instead 22:17 < SDuensin> So much for reading the instructions. 22:17 <+MrHairgrease> dunno exactly how the im method interferes 22:17 <+MrHairgrease> but it f*cks sh*t *p 22:18 <+MrHairgrease> still it returns a one pixel image 22:18 < SDuensin> Is WebGUI::Image->new honoring the width/height parameters? 22:18 <+MrHairgrease> it should 22:18 <+MrHairgrease> let me check it out 22:19 <+MrHairgrease> hang on 22:19 < SDuensin> Then it should make a 280x192 image. Even if my drawing code is borked. 22:20 <+MrHairgrease> aparently it does not 22:20 <+MrHairgrease> you discovered a bug =) 22:20 < SDuensin> Whoo hoo! 22:20 * MrHairgrease mumbles something about stupid acme contests 22:22 * SDuensin mumbles something about a patch 22:22 <+MrHairgrease> better 22:22 <+MrHairgrease> i have a workaround for you 22:22 < SDuensin> That works. 22:23 < SDuensin> Not like this is world-class code. 22:23 <+MrHairgrease> use the setImageHeight and setImageWidth explicitly 22:23 <+MrHairgrease> let me check if that would do it in your code 22:25 <+MrHairgrease> it works 22:25 < SDuensin> I originally used the ImageMagick $image->Set('blahblah'); syntax until I saw your method that did it for me. :-P 22:26 <+MrHairgrease> http://sial.org/pbot/23848 22:26 <+MrHairgrease> that's the fix with a bit of context 22:26 < SDuensin> Trying it now. 22:26 <+MrHairgrease> ok 22:27 < SDuensin> How did we ever live without virtual machines? 22:28 <+MrHairgrease> heh 22:28 < SDuensin> Hot damn. It works. :-) 22:28 <+MrHairgrease> dunno 22:28 < SDuensin> Thanks! 22:28 <+MrHairgrease> np 22:28 <+MrHairgrease> I appreciate the contributions 22:29 <+MrHairgrease> I'm doing a talk about them at the wuc 22:29 < SDuensin> Any time you have questions about Apple II memory mapping, color generation, or CPU cycle timing, just let me know. :-) 22:29 <+MrHairgrease> do count on it 22:29 <+MrHairgrease> (which doesn't mean i know anything about apple2's 22:30 <+MrHairgrease> do = don't 22:30 < SDuensin> Woz was a genius. The Apple II is an engineering masterpiece. 22:30 < SDuensin> Er, "Woz *IS* a genius." Poor guy isn't dead or anything! 22:33 < SDuensin> So, think that's sufficiently bizarre enough for ACME? 22:34 <+MrHairgrease> prolly 22:35 < SDuensin> I gotta find some disks with more pictures on them. Somewhere, I've got a zillion of the things. 23:19 -!- Netsplit leguin.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: ckotil, +crythias, +MrHairgrease, @preaction, Radix_ 23:19 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @preaction, +MrHairgrease, +crythias, Radix_, ckotil 23:25 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:26 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has joined #webgui 23:45 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has left #webgui [] --- Day changed Thu Mar 29 2007 00:01 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@106.sub-75-207-197.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:47 <+MrHairgrease> it's..... 00:47 <+MrHairgrease> alive 00:47 <+MrHairgrease> http://www.plainblack.com/user_contributions/user_contributions/acme/xeyes-macro#T0cqj5obcSs7PIweT42jPQ 00:47 < pjesi> I was just looking at it :) 00:58 < nuba> i see 01:07 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] 01:57 <@preaction> 23291 lines of code later, the client site is up and running 02:06 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has left #webgui [] 02:33 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 02:33 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 02:33 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:38 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"] 03:38 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI 03:55 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui 03:55 -!- mode/#webgui [+v Radix-wrk] by ChanServ 04:45 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui 04:45 < PedersenMJ> Good evening 04:47 <@rizen> howdy 04:47 < PedersenMJ> How's it going? 04:48 <@rizen> crapaliscious 04:48 < PedersenMJ> That good, eh? What's wrong? 04:49 < SDuensin> HEY! 04:49 < SDuensin> crapaliscious? Aww. My ACME is almost done! 04:52 <+Radix-wrk> perlm's entry is pretty cool - the only real contender so far to the mighty mrhairgrease 04:52 < SDuensin> Mine is just odd. But I like it! 04:52 <+Radix-wrk> cmon SDuensin - finish yours off so we have some more! 04:52 < SDuensin> Doing the docs now. 04:52 <+Radix-wrk> cool :) 04:52 <@rizen> sd: nice 04:53 <@rizen> Who is perlm? 04:53 <@rizen> is that the same as patspam? 04:53 <+Radix-wrk> Oh.. sorry.. 04:53 <+Radix-wrk> I meant patspam 04:53 <@rizen> His almost borders on useful though. 04:53 <+Radix-wrk> it's early for me.. brain mixed up those two names 04:57 <@rizen> i wonder how we can attract more people to the community. we have lots and lots of new businesses signing up to use webgui and purchasing our services 04:57 <@rizen> but we have very few who are just joining the community 04:57 <@rizen> or also joining the community 04:58 <+Radix-wrk> yeah, it's a hard one 04:58 <@rizen> we seem to pick up a dozen new clients a week 04:59 <@rizen> but it seems closer to a dozen new contributors per year 04:59 < SDuensin> Damn. Wish I got a dozen clients a week. 04:59 < PedersenMJ> I wonder if it's the website itself? 05:00 <@rizen> keep in mind that a new client may only spend a few dollars with us. not every one spends thousands 05:00 <@rizen> pdersen, what about the site? 05:00 <+Radix-wrk> Of those clients how many have people that are actually decent with webgui though? 05:00 <+Radix-wrk> I mean quite a few of them I would gather are unable to set up their own site, and just want you to do it for them. 05:01 <@rizen> right 05:01 < PedersenMJ> It's hard to describe without sounding whiny/picky, but... For instance, the WebGUI Community Contests. Is that a PlainBlack effort, or a WebGUI effort? 05:01 <@rizen> i don't know what you mean 05:01 <@rizen> plainblack is funding them 05:01 <+Radix-wrk> It's the companies that have one or two people that are a bit more cluey that might be contributors. 05:01 <@rizen> if that's what you mean 05:02 <@rizen> yeah, those are few and far between 05:02 <+Radix-wrk> I want all the people who attended the WUC's to be part of the community.. they're the people we need 05:03 < PedersenMJ> Plain Black is sponsoring them... My thoughts are a bit muddled right now, but... Where are the contests? Imagine I'm a brand new user, barely ever looked at WebGUI. The contests could show me some of the not normal stuff, not easy to find stuff. (more in a sec). 05:04 <@rizen> radix: i think you may have just hit the nail on the head 05:04 <@rizen> webgui is a different kind of animal in the open source world 05:04 <@rizen> the kind that is used almost exclusively by businesses 05:04 < PedersenMJ> Now, if you go to www.plainblack.com there's little mention of the WCC. One item in the recent news. And that's it. On www.webgui.org ? Not a single mention. 05:04 <@rizen> not hobbiest 05:05 <@rizen> the business people are far more likely to get the job done, and then not get involved 05:05 <+Radix-wrk> yup 05:06 <@rizen> pedersen, i get you now 05:06 <+Radix-wrk> yeah, advertising of the wcc could've been done better 05:07 <@rizen> webgui.org and plainblack.com will soon be seperate sites 05:07 <+Radix-wrk> will be cool when that's done :) 05:07 <@rizen> then it will be easier to do that sort of stuff 05:08 <@rizen> right now there's so much information, that it's hard to discern what is community related and what is commercial 05:08 < PedersenMJ> Actually, that's not even close to the point. They can be the exact same site, exact same home page. But finding information that is *not* just promotional is hard. 05:08 < PedersenMJ> Correction: Finding publicly accessible information that is not just promotional is hard. 05:08 <@rizen> pedersenmj: that IS the point 05:08 <@rizen> plainblack.com is a commercial site, and is therefore very promotional 05:09 <@rizen> when webgui.org is split off from it 05:09 <@rizen> then there won't be all the products to sell 05:09 <@rizen> it's just talking about webgui 05:09 <@rizen> and community stuff 05:09 <@rizen> so there will be more room to put things like an advertisement for the community contest 05:09 < PedersenMJ> As I said, my thoughts are muddled. You are correct in that that was the point I was going for. 05:10 <@rizen> as of today we (plainblack) just finished a huge 6 month project 05:10 <@rizen> that most of our staff and contractors were working on 05:10 < PedersenMJ> Nice! Congratulations. 05:10 <@rizen> so now we'll be able to refocus our efforts on our site 05:10 <@rizen> and other stuff 05:11 < PedersenMJ> Oh, that reminds me. My company's new website is live now. Blah. Hate thinking about that. 05:12 < PedersenMJ> For anybody that wants to see, it's at http://www.6ave.com/ And yes, I can (most likely) help get some sort of deals from the web dept for you. 05:13 < PedersenMJ> JT, you'd get something of a laugh from it. That site took a *year* to implement. 05:14 < SDuensin> ASPX! ACK! :-P 05:14 <@rizen> why? 05:14 <@rizen> why did it take a year? 05:14 <@rizen> just for data entry? 05:14 <@rizen> =) 05:14 < PedersenMJ> Oh, and they're still fixing bugs that are being found. It's not done, not stable, and in active development for some basic functionality (for instance, they were having problems with shipment tracking as of yesterday). 05:16 < PedersenMJ> Nope, because the company that we had hired ... My least favorite companies, starting at #4: Microsoft, Rational (I know, they were bought by IBM), IBS, and Devix. The only thing Devix could make that *wouldn't* suck would be a vacuum cleaner. 05:16 < PedersenMJ> Yes, they're worse than MS. Especially if you look at MS dev quality for Windows 95, and use that as the comparison point. 05:17 < SDuensin> It's up! I've gone ACME! 05:17 <+Radix-wrk> woot! 05:18 < PedersenMJ> They spent most of a week debugging the addition of Paypal as a payment method. Doing Paypal on your site (at least, the way they did it, there might be others) involves getting a certificate from Paypal, and installing it. They couldn't get the permissions right for the installed cert for almost a week. And even then, *I'm* the one that fixed that. 05:18 < PedersenMJ> Congrats SD! 05:18 < SDuensin> Thanks, PedersenMJ 05:18 <@rizen> yeah, congrats sd 05:18 < SDuensin> You need to be at least 30 to appreciate my macro. :-) 05:19 <@rizen> don't be too critical, but this is the first draft of what the new webgui site *may* look like http://jt.plainblack.com/uploads/Wm/Ig/WmIglEaUykp2EPtt3LoM8w/Webgui-site.jpg 05:19 < SDuensin> Thanks, rizen 05:19 <+Radix-wrk> LOL 05:19 < SDuensin> I like the layout. Not the yellow. 05:19 < PedersenMJ> Hey, wanna see a style bug on the 6ave site? http://www.6ave.com/shop/category.aspx?cti=0201&pti=0200 go to the bottom, and compare the alignments of the bullets on the last two items. 05:20 < PedersenMJ> I like that style. Not so fond of yellow as a color, so the background isn't my fave, but that's a decent style. 05:21 <@rizen> that layout bug would be an easy one to fix 05:21 <@rizen> but i must say, you're being pretty nitpicky 05:22 <@rizen> although i can't believe it took a year to create that site 05:22 < PedersenMJ> That's just a very very small item in the scheme of things. 05:22 < PedersenMJ> You want fear? Go to the home page, and do a "view source" in your browser. 05:22 < SDuensin> I can. I did an online software store once. Code wasn't bad. Getting the "corporate" people to agree on anything was like herding cats. 05:23 < PedersenMJ> Explain the snippets of 'style="' attributes all over the place. 05:23 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has joined #webgui 05:23 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 05:24 < PedersenMJ> That could have been a part of it, true. 05:24 <+Radix-wrk> rizen: one of the things that webgui is exceedingly good at is flexibility of layout - one possible idea for the new webgui site is to allow a user to select between several different styles of the webgui website. Now css can do a lot of that kind of stuff, but using different templates would give an awesome overview of the flexibility of webgui imho. 05:24 <@rizen> tell them that 1999 called and they want their html back 05:24 < PedersenMJ> However, one item that occurred was that, on the day the code was supposed to be installed (some 6 months ago), the lead developer went for a month long trip to Israel? 05:25 < PedersenMJ> Sorry, no "?", he went on a trip to Israel. 05:25 <@rizen> radix: user's can't select that in webgui, only site admins can 05:25 <@rizen> or are you suggesting adding that as a feature to webgui? 05:26 <+perlDreamer> NOOOOO 05:26 < PedersenMJ> Anyway, I'll stop ranting about them now :) 05:26 <+perlDreamer> no more features 05:26 <@rizen> i agree with not adding it 05:26 <+perlDreamer> fix bugs 05:26 <+perlDreamer> write tests 05:26 <@rizen> even after fixing bugs and writing tests 05:26 < PedersenMJ> Actually, I'd vote for that feature, or something similar, at some point. 05:27 <@rizen> why? 05:27 <@rizen> what use does it have? 05:27 <@rizen> as a site admin you want the page to look how you want it to look 05:27 < SDuensin> OK, macro is up. I'm going to bed. Later all! 05:27 <+Radix-wrk> hmm.. actually for demonstration it would be useful, for anything else, not so much 05:27 <@rizen> later 05:27 <+Radix-wrk> by SD 05:27 <+Radix-wrk> bye even 05:27 <@rizen> radix: indeed for demo, but for that, screen shots are good enough 05:27 < PedersenMJ> Allow you to setup multiple looks that you are okay with, and then let the user decide which look-n-feel they want. 05:28 < PedersenMJ> Mandatory? Nah, not by a long shot. 05:28 <@rizen> useful, not by a longshot 05:28 < PedersenMJ> Also true. 05:28 <@rizen> used by more than 1% of webgui users, not by a long shot 05:28 <+Radix-wrk> I just feel that it's hard for people to see the power in webgui until they start playing with templates and see how much flexibility is actually there. 05:29 <@rizen> to get people hooked we need them to see how easy it is to use, then show them how powerful it is 05:29 <+Radix-wrk> I guess you could do that with a quick flash demo or something just as easy 05:32 <+Radix-wrk> I had a look at the Zenoss website yesterday as it was mentioned on /. - the thing that struck me with that website was that it really demoed the product great - there's a quick tour option with lots of pictures and great examples of it in use. Look at the webgui.org website in comparison and it just doesn't have any of that. 05:33 <+Radix-wrk> anyway.. just my 2c 05:33 <+Radix-wrk> afk for a bit.. morning tea time in the office 05:33 <@rizen> agreed 05:59 <+perlDreamer> boy,that ruby on rails is getting so advanced 05:59 <+perlDreamer> check our their new date widget http://datetime.toolbocks.com/ 06:01 <@rizen> hehe 06:01 <@rizen> that's the same old date widget we've had for 4 years 06:01 <@rizen> ok, maybe it's only been 3 years 06:04 <+perlDreamer> it's been in WebGUI as long as I can remember 06:05 <@rizen> when we start moving forward again with dev i'm going to be throwing that one out 06:05 <@rizen> and replacing it with the much more powerful YUI version 06:07 <+perlDreamer> not too bad looking. does it have combo time feature? 06:07 <@rizen> no, i'm going to have to write that 06:07 <@rizen> but it does have a date range feature 06:07 <@rizen> which is nice for things like the calendar 06:08 <@rizen> where you have a start and an end date 06:08 <@rizen> you can choose them both on the same calendar 06:08 <+perlDreamer> that's nice 06:16 <+perlDreamer> I'm heading home. I've procrastinated going as long as I can. Time to face the in-laws :( 06:16 <@rizen> ew 06:16 <@rizen> good luck 06:17 <+perlDreamer> The force will be with me. 06:17 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"] 07:05 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] 07:31 < PedersenMJ> g'nite all. see you manana. 07:32 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has quit [] 07:37 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:37 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI 08:48 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 08:48 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 08:50 < nuba> quick question, where do I enable intensive debugging ? scenario: i have a workflow instance giving "An Error Occurred/500 Internal Server Error", tried "log4perl.logger = DEBUG, mainlog" at /data/WebGUI/etc/log.conf, it only made the workflow more verbose. i was hoping i'd see webgui more verbose instead, as to help me troubleshoot the error the workflow is receiving. 08:51 < nuba> another quick question: would the question above be more appropriate for the dev forum instead of here ? 08:54 <+Radix-wrk> nuba: Workflows are processed by spectre - so your best bet is to use the spectre debug mode, not webgui debug mode 08:55 <+Radix-wrk> you can run spectre in debug mode by stopping spectre then restarting it using the --debug flag 08:56 < nuba> Radix-wrk: cool. thanks. 08:56 <@preaction> or you could run webgui in INFO mode, then you'd really get some verbosity 08:56 <@preaction> and a whole bunch of gibberish probably 08:56 <+Radix-wrk> that's not going to give details of workflows tho is it preaction? 08:56 <@preaction> i dunno, i've never tried it 08:57 <@preaction> i'd do what Radix-wrk said. 08:57 < nuba> I've tried DEBUG and INFO. DEBUG is more verbose 09:02 < nuba> well, same output as i've got from "log4perl.logger = DEBUG, mainlog" at /data/WebGUI/etc/log.conf 09:03 < nuba> only it was sent to spectre to stdout instead 09:04 < nuba> i got "WORKFLOW: Workflow instance 7R264sdttZYGEuIRebd1Gw posted." blah blah blah "WORKFLOW: [Error] Response for 7R264sdttZYGEuIRebd1Gw had a communications error. " etc. again 09:05 < nuba> so, once the workflow instance 7R264sdttZYGEuIRebd1Gw is posted to http://my.webgui.site:81/, where is the debugging switch i should flip to see whats going on ? 09:19 <@preaction> nuba: communications error usually means that something was wrong with trying to post to http://my.webgui.ste:81/ 09:19 < nuba> that would make sense 09:21 < nuba> thx, will look into that now 09:25 < nuba> that nailed it 09:25 < nuba> thanks very mucho :) 09:28 < nuba> this specific site was missing from /etc/hosts 09:29 < nuba> i have a "*.my.domain A IP.AD.DR.ESS" wildcard DNS record at bind 09:29 < nuba> so it resolves fine. but it seems it wasn't enough 09:29 < nuba> weird 09:31 < nuba> beautiful: webgui.log: "Running workflow activity pbwfactivity0000000006, which is a WebG 09:31 < nuba> UI::Workflow::Activity::CommitVersionTag, for instance 7R264sdttZYGEuIRebd1Gw." 09:31 < nuba> so DEBUG mode worked as expected 10:03 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [] 10:31 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 10:31 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 11:14 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [] 11:16 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:15 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:08 -!- ckotil [n=newtrino@snare.grnoc.iu.edu] has quit ["leaving"] 16:13 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@133.sub-75-205-113.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI 16:13 < SDuensin> Good morning 16:16 -!- ckotil [n=newtrino@snare.grnoc.iu.edu] has joined #webgui 16:16 < SDuensin> Morning, ckotil 16:34 -!- AMH_bob [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui 16:41 < AMH_bob> Hi, is anybody out there? 16:41 * SDuensin is just another brick in the wall. 16:41 < SDuensin> Hello, AMH_bob 16:42 < AMH_bob> Hi SDuensin, could I run a question by you? 16:42 < SDuensin> Not sure how helpful I'll be, but sure, go ahead. 16:42 < AMH_bob> What is the difference between a wobject and an asset? 16:45 < SDuensin> That's funny. I was going to ask the same thing when some more developers show up today. :-) 16:46 < AMH_bob> Ok, what a coinkidink! 16:47 < AMH_bob> I've followed the Wobject example/tutorial, now I'm starting to dive into the WebGUI framework 16:48 < Radix_> Wobjects are assets, they just have more methods to handle the UI side of things as they're exposed to the UI 16:48 < Radix_> assets are more of a base class really, and useful sometimes when a full wobject isn't needed 16:49 < Radix_> Everything in webgui is an asset 16:49 * SDuensin is still learning the API and butchering macros. :-) 16:49 < Radix_> aren't we all :) 16:50 < AMH_bob> Ok, that clears things up a bit 16:50 < AMH_bob> thank you 16:50 < Radix_> you're welcome 16:52 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has left #webgui ["Leaving"] 16:52 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has joined #webgui 16:52 -!- mode/#webgui [+v Radix_] by ChanServ 17:28 < ckotil> 'mornin 17:29 < ckotil> moved another site to webgui. 17:29 < ckotil> im curious how other people are running multiple websites from a single instance of webgui 17:29 * SDuensin raises his hand 17:29 < ckotil> care to enlighten me? 17:30 < SDuensin> Just keep running "addsite" from the WRE. :-) 17:30 < ckotil> ah. 17:30 < ckotil> ive never used the wre. do you know what addsite does? 17:31 < ckotil> i might try to compile the wre again on my mac to see the 'proper' way of adding a site 17:31 < SDuensin> Makes some vhosts and additional config files for WebGUI. 17:31 < SDuensin> There are Mac WREs already compiled. 17:31 < ckotil> does it create a new dir at the root level? 17:31 < ckotil> oh wikd 17:32 < SDuensin> If it's like the Ubuntu one, you get /data/WebGUI with the WebGUI stuff in it, /data/wre with the WRE files, and /data/domains with your site files. 17:32 < SDuensin> BBL - gotta run for a bit 17:33 < ckotil> k 17:42 -!- bopbop [n=kmccombs@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 17:58 -!- kristi [n=kmccombs@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 17:58 -!- bopbop [n=kmccombs@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:59 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #webgui 17:59 -!- AMH_bob [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 1.5.0.10/0000000000]"] 18:03 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has joined #webgui 18:29 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has joined #webgui 18:29 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 18:51 -!- TheSeparator [i=Seppie@cp43027-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has joined #webgui 19:12 * SDuensin has returned! 19:29 <+perlDreamer> who? 19:30 < SDuensin> "ME! JACK BURTAN!" 19:36 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui 19:36 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ 19:42 <+perlDreamer> hey, Jack. You better stop using Scott's nick. It'll make him mad to no end. 19:43 < SDuensin> Hey MrHairgrease 19:44 <+MrHairgrease> hi 19:47 <+MrHairgrease> whats up sudensin 19:47 < SDuensin> Writing JSON RPC services like a madman. 19:47 <+MrHairgrease> what for? 19:47 < xdanger> using webgui ?-) 19:48 < SDuensin> No, this is for some stuff at work using my ZK Desktop. 19:49 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has quit [] 19:49 -!- |thunder [n=e@c-68-60-143-198.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #webgui 19:49 < |thunder> can webgui be installed and configed via ftp and http like wordpress ? 19:50 <+MrHairgrease> no 19:50 < |thunder> hrm, do i need command lines access ? 19:50 <+MrHairgrease> yes =) 19:50 < |thunder> is it a service or something 19:50 < |thunder> ahh 19:50 < |thunder> ok 19:50 <+MrHairgrease> well 19:50 < |thunder> damn shared server. 19:50 <+MrHairgrease> maybe you could do it w/o shell 19:51 <+MrHairgrease> but that would be very hard 19:51 < SDuensin> Not likely. :-( 19:51 <+MrHairgrease> if not impossible 19:51 < |thunder> i cannot run bin at all 19:51 < SDuensin> Be MUCH easier to just get hosting from PlainBlack or someone. 19:51 <+MrHairgrease> shared servers are not suited for webgui 19:51 * SDuensin hopes to be someone someday. Soon. 19:51 <+MrHairgrease> it has a lot of cpan dependencies 19:52 < |thunder> I am thinking about 2 years from these guys, you know of a better deal? http://www.siteground.com/ 19:53 <+MrHairgrease> if you want to run webgui 19:53 <+MrHairgrease> they seem to do only shared hosting 19:54 <+MrHairgrease> which will render running webgui impossible 19:54 <+MrHairgrease> webgui is also not in their software and tool list 19:54 <+MrHairgrease> so it you ask on #webgui, the answer is 19:54 <+MrHairgrease> ofcourse you can get a better deal 19:54 <+MrHairgrease> one that will allow running webgui =) 19:55 < SDuensin> |thunder - https://www.plainblack.com/services/hosting 19:55 < |thunder> im not paying a 100$ setup fee on top of hosting costs. thats retarded 19:56 <+MrHairgrease> it might 19:56 <+MrHairgrease> it might not 19:56 < SDuensin> No setup with PlainBlack. And nobody knows WebGUI better. 19:56 <+MrHairgrease> that's something you'll have to decide for yourself 19:56 <+MrHairgrease> you could try procolix 19:56 <+MrHairgrease> that's my former company 19:56 < |thunder> siteground is not shared, 4.95x2 years dedicated hosting 19:56 <+MrHairgrease> they do webgui hosting too 19:57 < |thunder> what is so special about a webgui server ? it has cpan-dev installed? 19:57 <+MrHairgrease> wbegui runs as a mod-perl app 19:57 < SDuensin> WebGUI has a lot of dependencies. It's a huge program. 19:57 <+MrHairgrease> inside of apache 19:57 <+MrHairgrease> also it runs a seperate daemon that handles workflow 19:58 <+MrHairgrease> and schduling 19:58 < SDuensin> And, if you use the WRE, it actually runs *two* copies of Apache. :-) 19:58 <+MrHairgrease> and whatnot 19:58 < |thunder> ok, thanks for the info guys. i doubt i'll go with plainblack, hopefully i can get it up and running on on of sitegrounds servers. 19:59 <+MrHairgrease> where's the part on the siteground site that says dedicated server for $5 a month? 19:59 < |thunder> wheres the part that says shared ? 20:00 < |thunder> im going to call them right now and find out for sure 20:00 <+MrHairgrease> if you know of a dedicated box for $5 a month hoster 20:00 <+MrHairgrease> pls let me know 20:00 <+MrHairgrease> ok 20:00 < SDuensin> No kidding. 20:00 < |thunder> i think it is, but gotta buy 2 years 20:01 < SDuensin> Not for $5. No way. 20:01 < |thunder> ive heard sityegroudn is the best. bbiafew, gonna call them and verify 20:01 <+MrHairgrease> ok 20:01 <+MrHairgrease> good luck 20:01 < SDuensin> You really need a shell to install WebGUI. 20:01 < |thunder> k, dont go far 20:02 <+MrHairgrease> http://www.siteground.com/dedicated_servers.htm 20:03 < SDuensin> Yea. That's more like it. 20:04 <+MrHairgrease> btw 20:04 <+MrHairgrease> the plainblack site says: 20:04 <+MrHairgrease> Our unsupported WebGUI hosting service has a monthly cost of only $20 and no setup fee. These are the services included: 20:04 <+MrHairgrease> that is _no setup fee_ 20:04 <+MrHairgrease> https://www.plainblack.com/services/hosting/20/mo---unsupported-webgui-hosting 20:04 <+MrHairgrease> btw. i do not work for plainblack 20:04 < SDuensin> Me either. 20:05 <+MrHairgrease> so sduensin 20:05 <+MrHairgrease> have you already tried my xeyes macro 20:05 <+MrHairgrease> ? 20:06 < SDuensin> Nope. I got my macro uploaded last night and went to bed. :-) 20:06 < SDuensin> Very cool though. 20:06 <+MrHairgrease> even better 20:06 <+MrHairgrease> it has a hidden feature 20:06 <+MrHairgrease> or should i say 20:06 <+MrHairgrease> undocumented 20:06 < SDuensin> It disables the HGR macro? :-P 20:06 <+MrHairgrease> nah 20:07 <+MrHairgrease> i never disable code i debug =) 20:07 < SDuensin> hehehehe 20:08 * SDuensin is still waiting for the Image->new patch! 20:09 * MrHairgrease had to write a presentation an hour before it was due 20:09 <+MrHairgrease> so be patient 20:09 < |thunder> damn, "Sneji: $4.95 package is a shared hosting package, yes" 20:10 < SDuensin> Just givin' you hell, MrHairgrease. 20:10 <+MrHairgrease> those prices are only posible in some utopia 20:10 < SDuensin> Yea. Dedicated is $350 a month. 20:11 <+MrHairgrease> sduensin: bring it on! 20:18 < |thunder> "Sneji: the main difference is the server resources 20:18 < |thunder> Sneji: in addition, on a dedicated server you get SSH access+ root access 20:18 < |thunder> Sneji: you get WHM as well 20:18 < |thunder> Sneji: and great management system " 20:18 <+MrHairgrease> same story everywher 20:18 <+MrHairgrease> you want cvontrol 20:18 <+MrHairgrease> you'll have to pay for it 20:20 < |thunder> i want some one to host MY blade for cheap. just pay for bandwidth and reboot service. 20:20 <+MrHairgrease> ah 20:20 <+MrHairgrease> you should hire some rackspace at an isp 20:20 <+MrHairgrease> i know only dutch companies that do that 20:21 <+MrHairgrease> maybe this'll help 20:21 <+MrHairgrease> http://www.google.nl/search?hl=nl&q=hire+rackspace+isp&btnG=Google+zoeken&meta= 20:21 < SDuensin> Lots of smaller ISPs in the USA will co-locate. 20:21 < |thunder> i'll mail it to holland if they'll do it, :) 20:21 < SDuensin> hehehe 20:22 <+MrHairgrease> =) 20:22 <+MrHairgrease> for the record 20:22 <+MrHairgrease> i know only dutch companies since i'm dutch 20:23 <+MrHairgrease> thea 20:23 <+MrHairgrease> in the usa i dunno them 20:23 <+MrHairgrease> prolly has to do with being ducth =) 20:28 < SDuensin> It's called "co-location" here in the USA. 20:28 <+MrHairgrease> in the netherlands to 20:28 <+MrHairgrease> i must have been on drugs 20:28 <+MrHairgrease> =) 20:28 < SDuensin> It's also called "time for lunch" here. 20:28 < SDuensin> :-) 20:29 <+MrHairgrease> as long as it's not free 20:29 <+MrHairgrease> here it's called diner time 20:37 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] 20:54 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-3.adsl.indra.com] has joined #webgui 21:17 -!- Radix__ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has joined #webgui 21:20 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:58 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui 21:59 < PedersenMJ> Anybody from plainblack: Votes for wcc have gone missing. 21:59 < PedersenMJ> All of them, as far as I can see./ 21:59 <+perlDreamer> no PB people in the room 22:01 < PedersenMJ> Wow, that sucks for timing. 22:01 <+perlDreamer> but I see your point 22:01 <+perlDreamer> dude, you were far and away the leader 22:01 <+perlDreamer> we'll all vouch for you 22:05 < SDuensin> We will? 22:05 < SDuensin> Oh yea. Sure. I will. :-) 22:05 < SDuensin> You were right behind that HGR guy. 22:06 < PedersenMJ> Nah, was hoping they could restore that segment from backup. 'sall. And if there were experiencing a problem and didn't know it, well, this was the one way I could let them know quickly. 22:06 <+perlDreamer> wiki entries, not ACMEs 22:07 < SDuensin> :-( 22:09 < PedersenMJ> Though I will admit that I'd really like the $250. And the book. 22:09 < SDuensin> Yep. That'd be nice. :-) 22:09 < SDuensin> I wasn't able to make the wiki deadline. Oh well. 22:10 < PedersenMJ> What article were you gonna write up? 22:10 < SDuensin> How to make a nice photo gallery using the folder asset. 22:11 <+perlDreamer> I would love to see that article, contest or not 22:12 < kristi> PedersenMJ: you won the wiki contest. I'm in the process of handing out karma and what not now 22:13 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 22:13 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 22:14 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:14 * SDuensin cheers for PedersenMJ ! 22:14 <+perlDreamer> ++PedersenMJ 22:14 <+perlDreamer> Way to go! 22:14 < SDuensin> PedersenMJ - the site I'm working on that uses it is at http://new.duensing.com if you want to see it work. 22:14 <+perlDreamer> The money, the karma, the fame! 22:14 < SDuensin> The book! 22:15 <+perlDreamer> kristi should autograph it 22:15 < kristi> the glory is all yours 22:21 < PedersenMJ> Oh, wow. Cool. Very cool. Thank you :) 22:21 < PedersenMJ> And preaction is right: Show us that article, SD. Definitely would like to see it (sorry for my idly self, I'm on from work, and fixing a small crisis). 22:22 < SDuensin> I still want to write it. :-) I also did a quick-and-dirty FLV player macro that I want to document. 22:22 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 22:22 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ 22:22 < SDuensin> rizen lives! 22:22 <@rizen> and the winner is 22:23 <@rizen> PedersenMJ 22:23 <@rizen> and Radix get's 2nd and 3rd place 22:24 < PedersenMJ> Yeeha! Cool! :) 22:25 < PedersenMJ> Hey, nice layout, SD. I like it. 22:25 < SDuensin> Thanks, PedersenMJ 22:25 <@rizen> pedersenmj 22:25 <@rizen> need you to email me your address 22:25 <@rizen> so i can ship out your prizes 22:26 < kristi> Radix: can you do the same? 22:26 < kristi> You received second and third place 22:26 < PedersenMJ> jt@plainblack.com? 22:26 <@rizen> yup 22:27 < |thunder> PedersenMJ; was your 'changing the site icon in webGUI'? 22:28 < PedersenMJ> Nope, I think that one was Radix. 22:28 < PedersenMJ> I think. 22:28 < PedersenMJ> Mine was the "Give WebGUI Your Own Style" one. 22:28 -!- mode/#webgui [+o kristi] by rizen 22:30 < PedersenMJ> Oh, jt, emailed it already. 22:31 <@rizen> now i know where to send the serial killers 22:31 < PedersenMJ> Dang. Can't you make it just one off killers? Serial killers are so overdone anymore. 22:44 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has left #webgui ["90% of the problems that people have with GNU/Linux are to impute to Windows."] 22:44 <@rizen> i'm fresh out of regular killers 22:44 <@rizen> i have only serial killers 22:44 <@rizen> and guidos 22:46 < PedersenMJ> Damn. Dunno if I could go for a Guido. Not unless he brings along a Nunzio, too. 22:51 < pjesi> PedersenMJ: very nice work on the tutorial! 22:52 < PedersenMJ> Thank you :) 22:52 < pjesi> I wish it was there when I learned to do it the hard way 22:52 < pjesi> :) 22:53 < PedersenMJ> Well, that's why I wrote it. I did it the somewhat hard way, and wanted to make sure I'd have an easier reference later. And the people in-chan helped a lot when I was going about the harder way. 23:01 < ckotil> pjesi: me too 23:03 <@kristi> ckotil: when can I release your little story we worked on last summer?(nag nag) 23:09 < ckotil> yeah, im real sorry about that 23:09 < ckotil> there must have been a snag somewhere in the communications office 23:10 < ckotil> ill ask about it. thanks for the reminder 23:11 <@kristi> sure....perhaps the communication office is communicating so well :) Just let me know 23:12 < ckotil> buncha oxymorons 23:26 < PedersenMJ> Hmmm... Just read the new wcc entry. Possible flaw (depending on POV): It would be possible for me to snag an amazing style from any of the free template sites out there, convert to WebGUI, and submit. 23:26 < SDuensin> New WCC? 23:27 < PedersenMJ> http://www.plainblack.com/wcc/best-webgui-site-style 23:27 <@kristi> let me ask our site designer and see what he thinks 23:28 < SDuensin> That's how I do my themes, PedersenMJ. :-) I suck as a designer! 23:28 < PedersenMJ> Same as me :) 23:28 <@kristi> new rule to be added: original work only 23:28 < PedersenMJ> Thank you :) 23:29 < SDuensin> hehehe 23:29 < PedersenMJ> I remembered speaking with JT some months ago about that, and he (rightfully) was wanting original work only. 23:33 <@kristi> The entry must be original. Submissions must include an attachment of the original design used to create the style (so photoshop, illustrator, etc) 23:34 < PedersenMJ> If somebody uses paper/pencil, will scanned image be acceptable? 23:34 <@kristi> sure, as long as we documentation of the original 23:34 <@kristi> ...have documentation... 23:36 < PedersenMJ> Sounds good. Just wanted to check. Doubt I can do anything with it, but if I can, it'd be nice. 23:36 -!- kristi [n=kmccombs@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has left #webgui [] 23:42 <@rizen> kristi is making that contest so you have to do original works? 23:42 <@rizen> hmm 23:43 < PedersenMJ> I thought that was what you were hoping for? 23:45 <@rizen> well i think originals are better 23:45 <@rizen> less question of copyright or licensing 23:45 <@rizen> but we will likely get fewer participants 23:59 < SDuensin> Headed home. Later gang! 23:59 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@133.sub-75-205-113.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"] --- Day changed Fri Mar 30 2007 00:04 -!- vayde [n=vayde@209.134.142.196] has joined #webgui 00:04 -!- mode/#webgui [+o vayde] by ChanServ 00:09 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 00:09 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 00:11 < pjesi> next wcc, no open source design allowed? 00:12 <@rizen> i'm going to talk to kristi about that 00:12 <@rizen> i'm thinking they should be allowed 00:12 <@rizen> but i'll see what her thoughts are on that 00:13 < pjesi> ok, for those of use who can't paint :) 00:13 < pjesi> s/use/us 00:14 <@rizen> feel free to voice your concerns to her 00:14 <@rizen> she's either kristi or bopbop on irc 00:14 <@rizen> or you can email her at kristi@plainblack.com 00:14 < pjesi> ok thanks 00:36 -!- TheSeparator [i=Seppie@cp43027-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has quit [] 01:45 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI 01:46 <@rizen> kill him!! 01:47 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has left #webgui [] 01:50 * SDuensin hides 02:28 < Radix__> rizen: could you rate my rfe if you have a minute? http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/additional-post-template-variables-for-cs#Vqh5yCK93ub8YQWAxbgfXA 02:29 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] 02:29 < Radix__> guess not 02:29 -!- Radix__ is now known as Radix_ 02:30 -!- mode/#webgui [+v Radix_] by ChanServ 02:32 <+perlDreamer> psst, Radix_ 02:33 <+perlDreamer> don't suggest adding more template vars to the CS 02:33 <+Radix_> hmm? 02:33 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui 02:33 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ 02:33 <+perlDreamer> it just makes it slower 02:33 <+perlDreamer> rizen doesn't like slower 02:33 <+Radix_> Umm.. sure, but what if you want the functionality? 02:33 <+perlDreamer> good point 02:33 <+Radix_> the current synopsis is pretty crappy 02:34 <+Radix_> we want some kind of snippet of each post displayed, but don't want the whole thing 02:34 <+perlDreamer> is that the asset level synopsis? 02:34 <+Radix_> post synopsis 02:34 <+Radix_> it's generated from the post description 02:34 <+Radix_> but it's done in a really bad way 02:35 <+perlDreamer> yeah, first physical line 02:35 <+perlDreamer> I see your point 02:35 <+Radix_> it displays everything in the post up to the first return character 02:36 <+perlDreamer> but if you break things by words, don't you risk having dangling HTML tags? 02:36 <+perlDreamer> wouldn't it be better if there was a marker to indicate the user desired synopsis? 02:36 <+Radix_> yeah, I guess there is that 02:36 <+Radix_> the same problem would exist in the standard article then too 02:36 <+perlDreamer> yes, it does 02:36 <+MrHairgrease> my 2ct 02:37 <+MrHairgrease> although i dunno quite exactly what you guys are talking about 02:37 <+MrHairgrease> is using HTML::TreeBuilder 02:37 <+Radix_> http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/additional-post-template-variables-for-cs#Vqh5yCK93ub8YQWAxbgfXA 02:37 <+MrHairgrease> that thing always fixes html 02:38 <+perlDreamer> MrHairGrease, can the SQLForm do a drill down report (search within last search result set)? 02:38 <+MrHairgrease> no 02:38 <+MrHairgrease> you mean refine search right? 02:39 <+perlDreamer> This user is asking for a drill down, but defining it as a refine, yes. 02:39 <+MrHairgrease> ok 02:40 <+MrHairgrease> let's state it differently 02:40 <+MrHairgrease> search within results? 02:40 <+MrHairgrease> that is waht you mean? 02:41 * MrHairgrease has just returned from the bar and is a little less inteligent right now 02:41 <+Radix_> hehe 02:41 <+MrHairgrease> radix 02:41 <+MrHairgrease> go to work =) 02:41 <+Radix_> shoosh.. yes, I should be heading off to work 02:41 <+MrHairgrease> it's about 1.45am right now 02:41 <+Radix_> 7.42am here 02:42 <+MrHairgrease> gottalove those tz's 02:42 <+MrHairgrease> =) 02:42 <+Radix_> ;) 02:42 <+MrHairgrease> wtf 02:42 <+MrHairgrease> you get up before 12? 02:42 <+Radix_> unfortunately :( 02:42 <+MrHairgrease> no worries 02:42 <+MrHairgrease> when you go to bed 02:42 <+Radix_> got a half day off today tho.. attending a games/entertainment expo this afternoon on work time ;) 02:42 <+MrHairgrease> i'll be cursing the damned time 02:42 <+MrHairgrease> =) 02:43 <+MrHairgrease> for you it's already friday 02:43 <+Radix_> yup 02:43 <+MrHairgrease> that's a good thing i guess 02:43 <+MrHairgrease> marijn says hi btw 02:43 <+MrHairgrease> dunno if you guys know who she is 02:44 <+MrHairgrease> but i'll e3xplain someday 02:44 <+MrHairgrease> =) 02:44 <+MrHairgrease> one hint 02:44 <+MrHairgrease> i know her for about 5 years 02:45 <+MrHairgrease> but we're heavily involved for only 4.something 02:46 <+MrHairgrease> well 02:46 <+MrHairgrease> gotto go to bed 02:46 <+perlDreamer> sleep well, ACME-dude 02:46 <+MrHairgrease> watch out for them crocs mate =) 02:49 <+MrHairgrease> Colin, have you tried it already? 02:51 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui [] 02:51 <+perlDreamer> no 02:52 <+perlDreamer> poor guy, probably crashed out on his keyboard 03:46 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has joined #webgui 03:46 -!- mode/#webgui [+v Radix-wrk] by ChanServ 03:53 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-3.adsl.indra.com] has quit [] 03:54 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-3.adsl.indra.com] has joined #webgui 04:11 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat064.mxim.com] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"] 04:15 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-3.adsl.indra.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:51 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has joined #webgui 05:54 -!- vayde [n=vayde@209.134.142.196] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 06:26 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [] 06:36 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui 06:36 < PedersenMJ> Good evening. 06:49 -!- cap10morgan_ [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has joined #webgui 06:49 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:53 <+Radix-wrk> Hey PedersenMJ - congrats on 1st place for the wiki competition :) 06:53 < PedersenMJ> Thanks. Congrats on sweeping the rest :) 06:55 <+Radix-wrk> ;) 07:08 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #webgui 07:08 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ 07:10 -!- Radix-wrk [n=Jesse@203.161.68.67] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:08 -!- Netsplit leguin.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: Hinrik, PedersenMJ, +perlDreamer, ckotil, perlbot, nuba, cap10morgan_, SDuensin, pjesi, +Radix_, (+2 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 08:08 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 08:08 -!- Netsplit over, joins: +perlDreamer, cap10morgan_, PedersenMJ, SDuensin, +Radix_, |thunder, ckotil, besonen_mobile, Hinrik, perlbot (+2 more) 08:08 -!- ServerMode/#webgui [+ovv preaction perlDreamer Radix_] by irc.freenode.net 08:08 -!- cap10morgan_ [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has quit [] 08:10 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@pool-71-117-209-62.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 08:20 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has quit [] 08:34 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @preaction, SDuensin, +Radix_, |thunder, ckotil, besonen_mobile, Hinrik, perlbot, pjesi, nuba --- Log closed Fri Mar 30 09:13:14 2007 --- Log opened Fri Mar 30 09:21:37 2007 09:21 -!- xdanger [i=xdanger@217.112.244.70] has joined #webgui 09:21 -!- Irssi: #webgui: Total of 11 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 1 voices, 9 normal] 09:21 -!- Irssi: Join to #webgui was synced in 3 secs 10:34 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui 10:34 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ 12:21 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [] 13:30 < pjesi> morning 13:41 <+MrHairgrease> hi 13:56 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@194.171.50.114] has left #webgui [] 14:16 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:50 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@44.sub-75-204-11.myvzw.com] has joined #WebGUI 15:50 < SDuensin> Good morning. 16:06 < pjesi> hi 16:07 < pjesi> I have a question to you guys, what is the best method to add flash to a page? 16:10 < SDuensin> I wrote a little macro. All I do is FLV files though. 16:37 <+Radix_> I use swfobject.js to load it 16:38 < SDuensin> What's that? 16:38 < SDuensin> NM - found it 16:41 < SDuensin> Might have to update my macro to use that. :-) 16:44 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 16:44 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ 16:44 < SDuensin> Greetings, rizen. 16:44 <@rizen> greetings sd 16:56 -!- AMH_bob [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui 16:56 < pjesi> I am thinking for a regular user who wants to put a lot of flash files to WG, some WYSIWYG editors have a flash button to directly create the html code to encapsulate it in a page 16:58 < pjesi> normal users are quite afraid of macros, at least in my experience 16:59 < SDuensin> Normal users are afraid of their computers. :-) 16:59 < pjesi> well, it doesnt stop them wanting to do this to it! :D 17:01 < SDuensin> All my clients tend to go "can you do this?" and then hand me a napkin with some doodle on it. 17:01 < ckotil> heh 17:01 < SDuensin> One of these days, I'm just going to scan it and put it up. 17:02 <@rizen> when people want to use flash, i typically give them a flash template to use with their file assets 17:03 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #webgui 17:06 -!- vayde [n=vayde@209.134.142.196] has joined #webgui 17:06 -!- mode/#webgui [+o vayde] by ChanServ 17:20 < pjesi> SDuensin: yeah, Im in a position where I cant accept napkins (full time student :) 17:21 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has joined #webgui 17:25 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] 17:42 <+Radix_> We use flash movies for training purposes - but we host our flash movies offsite on an ftp in a standard directory. I have a special video CS object I get them to set up, and it has the full base path for the movies in the template. all they do is upload their flash to the directory and add a post with the same basename as the flash movie and it just works. 17:43 <+Radix_> Works well for us and simple enough that anyone can add flash movies easily 17:44 < SDuensin> That's too easy. It'll never work. 17:44 <+Radix_> :) 17:47 < pjesi> :> 18:03 -!- bopbop [n=kmccombs@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 18:14 -!- vayde [n=vayde@209.134.142.196] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:15 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has quit [] 18:17 -!- AMH_bob [n=chatzill@alphamega-dmp.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 1.5.0.10/0000000000]"] 18:18 -!- vayde [n=vayde@209.134.142.196] has joined #webgui 18:18 -!- mode/#webgui [+o vayde] by ChanServ 18:54 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-3.adsl.indra.com] has joined #webgui 18:54 * ckotil chalks up failed attempt #4 + #5 of the wre 18:55 < ckotil> I was trying it on a xen virtualized RHEL AS5 server 18:55 < ckotil> tried rh4 ,and from source. both b0rked 18:56 < ckotil> 'configure: error: no acceptable C compiler found in $PATH' whats an acceptible c compiler? 18:58 * SDuensin just read that as an "ASS server". 18:58 < SDuensin> Maybe it's mad about the version of GCC you have? There are some differences between 3 and 4. 18:59 < SDuensin> (Last time I used Red Hat [and liked it] was the 5.x series, so I may not be the best person to ask!) 19:02 < ckotil> perlbot paste 19:02 < perlbot> Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it. 19:02 < ckotil> http://erxz.com/pb/1980 19:05 < SDuensin> Wow. Nice gibberish error. 19:07 < ckotil> eh, i figured it out 19:07 < ckotil> i ran into this error before actually. 19:07 < ckotil> for some reason $dsn = "DBI:mysql:mysql;host=".getMysqlHost().";port=".getMysqlPort(); 19:07 < ckotil> will not be passed around properly 19:07 < ckotil> so i had to replace $dsn w/ "DBI:mysql:mysql;host=".getMysqlHost().";port=".getMysqlPort() whenever it occured (one other time) 19:08 < ckotil> wahoo. furthest ive ever made it on a wre install! 19:08 < SDuensin> hehe 19:08 < ckotil> doh. 19:08 < ckotil> jinxed it 19:14 < ckotil> yeah. flippin DSN error still 19:22 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui 19:22 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ 19:22 <@rizen> radix...please tell me you're here 19:24 -!- rizen [n=rizen@71-86-227-90.static.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:23 -!- bopbop [n=kmccombs@68-114-216-78.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has left #webgui [] 23:00 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 23:00 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 23:17 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [] 23:53 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@44.sub-75-204-11.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"] --- Day changed Sat Mar 31 2007 00:07 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["90% of the problems that people have with GNU/Linux are to impute to Windows."] 00:38 -!- Radix__ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has joined #webgui 00:39 -!- Radix_ [n=Radix@203.161.71.161.static.amnet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:48 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 02:48 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 03:53 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [] 04:02 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@vc1-868-3.adsl.indra.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:53 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has joined #webgui 04:53 < PedersenMJ> good evening 05:02 <@vayde> Howdy 05:03 -!- vayde [n=vayde@209.134.142.196] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 05:43 -!- SDuensin [n=Scott@12-217-162-173.client.mchsi.com] has joined #WebGUI 05:46 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has joined #webgui 05:46 -!- mode/#webgui [+o vayde] by ChanServ 07:22 -!- PedersenMJ [n=Pedersen@mail.icelus.biz] has quit [] 07:49 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has joined #webgui 08:09 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 08:10 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 08:35 -!- vayde [n=vayde@64-131-48-253.usfamily.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 09:55 -!- preaction_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 10:11 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:19 -!- preaction_ [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:26 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 10:26 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 10:26 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:32 -!- preaction [n=doug@static-72-1-4-143.ntd.net] has joined #webgui 13:33 -!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ 16:03 -!- cga [n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #webgui 17:18 -!- vayde [n=vayde@209.134.142.196] has joined #webgui 17:18 -!- mode/#webgui [+o vayde] by ChanServ 18:28 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has quit [] 19:53 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #webgui 19:53 -!- mode/#webgui [+v MrHairgrease] by ChanServ 22:11 -!- cap10morgan [n=wmorgan@206-124-31-122.denver.dsl.forethought.net] has joined #webgui 22:12 < cap10morgan> Is there a way to instantiate pending assets using the API? WebGUI::Asset->new purposefully ignores pending assets... 22:13 < cap10morgan> unless they're in the current version tag, that is 22:49 <+MrHairgrease> i don't know 22:50 <+MrHairgrease> you could write a small utility script to test that 22:50 <+MrHairgrease> oh sry 22:50 <+MrHairgrease> read your line wrong 22:50 <+MrHairgrease> i dunno how to do that 23:09 -!- vayde [n=vayde@209.134.142.196] has quit [Remote closed the connection] --- Log closed Sun Apr 01 00:00:24 2007