--- Log opened Fri Dec 01 00:00:38 2006
00:01 -!- Jiggie2 is now known as Jiggie
00:01 < snapcount> here you go perlDreamer 
00:01 < snapcount> http://search.cpan.org/~bingos/POE-Component-IRC-5.14/lib/POE/Component/IRC.pm
00:01 < snapcount> an IRC module for POE
00:02 <+perlDreamer> so instead of plugging it into webgui, we'd plug it into spectre
00:02 <+perlDreamer> that's doable
00:04 < snapcount> this one looks easier
00:04 < snapcount> http://search.cpan.org/~jmuhlich/Net-IRC-0.75/IRC.pm
00:04 < snapcount> trouble is that I don't know POE and I don't know the IRC protocol
00:05 < snapcount> two requirements to use the first one
00:05 <+perlDreamer> if we plug it into Spectre, then it could log _any_ IRC channel.  If we don't we'd have to run _some_ daemon to log data before it's displayed.
00:05 < snapcount> the POE version would be ideal
00:06 < snapcount> it could trigger events in WebGUI like updating the IRC chat wobject
00:06 < snapcount> to show the message that was just typed
00:06 <+perlDreamer> webgui: change admin password to '456rty';
00:06 <+perlDreamer> webgui: commit all version tags
00:07 < snapcount> heh
00:07 <+perlDreamer> that last one isn't so bad
00:07 <+perlDreamer> imagine a WSDL interface into WebGUI.
00:07 < snapcount> that would be sweet
00:08 < snapcount> no browser requirement
00:08 <+perlDreamer> Dial 533 to remove this user's account
00:08 < snapcount> yep
00:08 <+perlDreamer> so, while y'all are here
00:08 < snapcount> please deposit $0.25 to add this asset and press 1
00:08 <+perlDreamer> I need to know enough about SharePoint to convince my friend not to use it for his company.
00:09 <+perlDreamer> He needs something better than "Duh, it's open source and free"
00:09 < snapcount> have you looked at cmsmatrix?
00:09 <+perlDreamer> yes
00:09 <+perlDreamer> it's not convincing, try the comparison yourself.
00:09 <+perlDreamer> hosters are selling SharePoint accounts for $60/month.
00:10 <+perlDreamer> btw, I think the PlainBlack one is a little out of date.
00:10 <+perlDreamer> We haven't had SMB authentication for a long time.
00:10 < snapcount> tell Vrby... he's the matrix overlord
00:11 <+perlDreamer> does perlbot have a memorize command?
00:11 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: help
00:11 < perlbot> (fact)::tell (who) about (what)::(what) > (who)::learn (what) as (info)::relearn (fact) as (info)::phone (phone number)::shorten (url)::shorten it::search (module)::docs (module)::perldoc -f (function)::jargon (term)::math::fortune::flip::host (type) (record)::rot13::roll (die)::tempconv (temp)::scramble (foo)::8ball::slap::diss::what time is it::top/bottom (number) karma::geoip (ip)
00:12 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: learn (Vrby is the matrix overlord) as (vrby)
00:12 < perlbot> added (Vrby to the database
00:12 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: vrby
00:12 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: docs POE::Component::IRC
00:12 < perlbot> Documentation for 'POE::Component::IRC' can be found here: http://xrl.us/tkbq
00:12 < snapcount> perlbot diss snapcount
00:12 < perlbot> snapcount is my little bitch.
00:12 < snapcount> ouch
00:13 <+perlDreamer> lol
00:13 <+perlDreamer> perlbot:: perldoc -f open
00:14 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: perldoc -f open
00:14 < perlbot> Documentation for '-f open' can be found here: http://tinyurl.com/yxzkan
00:15 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: help learn
00:18 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: define vrby : vrby is the matrix overlord
00:18 < perlbot> added define vrby : vrby to the database
00:18 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: vrby
00:19 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: define vrby
00:19 <+perlDreamer> hmmmmm.....
00:20 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: tell snapcount about vrby
00:20 < perlbot> vrby isn't something I know about, perlDreamer
00:20 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: vrby is the matrix overlord
00:20 < perlbot> added vrby to the database
00:21 <+perlDreamer> perlbot: tell snapcount about vrby
00:21 < snapcount> he priv messaged me
00:21 <+perlDreamer> he needs a good user manual
00:21 <+perlDreamer> perlbot, not vrby
00:21 <+perlDreamer> I understand that Mrs. Vrby is quite good at getting Mr. Vrby to do the things she needs.
00:22 < snapcount> hehe
00:22 < snapcount> something cool is about to happen
00:22 -!- snapbot [n=snapbot@224.248.95.24.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui
00:22 < snapcount> hi snapbot
00:22 < snapbot> I am a traffic light, and Alan Ginsberg kidnapped my laundry in 1927!
00:23 < snapcount> yo
00:23 < snapcount> snapbot
00:23 < snapbot> Just walk along and try NOT to think about your INTESTINES being almost FORTY YARDS LONG!!
00:23 < snapcount> snapbot roxors
00:23 < snapbot> I have a VISION!  It's a RANCID double-FISHWICH on an ENRICHED BUN!!
00:23 < snapcount> alrighty then
00:23 < snapcount> Net::IRC works
00:24 <+perlDreamer> s n a p b o t
00:24 < snapcount> snapbot
00:24 < snapbot> My pants just went on a wild rampage through a Long Island Bowling Alley!!
00:24 < snapcount> snapbot
00:24 < snapbot> Is it FUN to be a MIDGET?
00:24 <+perlDreamer> now that's funny
00:24 <+perlDreamer> the pants thing
00:24 < snapcount> snapbot
00:24 < snapbot> Just walk along and try NOT to think about your INTESTINES being almost FORTY YARDS LONG!!
00:24 <+perlDreamer> his random quote generator needs a little work, though
00:24 < snapcount> the Net::IRC module comes with a test script
00:25 < snapcount> I modified it to connect to freenode
00:25 <+perlDreamer> cool!
00:25 <+perlDreamer> so it forks a daemon and then hangs up?
00:25 < snapcount> uhh.. it's running in an infinite loop
00:25 < snapcount> you can bg it though
00:26 < snapcount> not sure how we'd implement this in webgui
00:26 <+perlDreamer> I'd plug it into spectre
00:26 < snapcount> it would have to be POEified
00:26 <+perlDreamer> we'd just use the POE one.
00:26 < snapcount> yeah
00:27 < snapcount> but, I don't think WebGUI knows how to communicate with other POE creatures
00:27 <+perlDreamer> It wouldn't have to.
00:27 < snapcount> I think the interface is very specific to WebGUI <=> Spectre
00:27 <+perlDreamer> all it would do is log things into a db
00:27 <+perlDreamer> then an Asset would just display lines of text from the db.
00:27 <+perlDreamer> should probably limit the db cache
00:28 < snapcount> I'm thinking chat wobject though
00:29 <+perlDreamer> okay
00:29 < snapcount> this thing would have to handle multiple connections
00:30 < snapcount> the idea is you configure the wobject to connect to a irc network/channel
00:30 < snapcount> the user says what nick to use and password (optional)
00:30 < snapcount> then they get a chat window
00:30 < snapcount> that would rule
00:30 < snapcount> but it would probably be easier to do a bot first
00:31 < snapcount> that you configured through webgui
00:31 < snapcount> so there would have to be communication between webgui and irc poe
00:31 < snapcount> should only take you a day
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00:40 <+perlDreamer> yo! crythias
01:01 < Radix__> Morning guys
01:01 <+perlDreamer> howdy
01:03 < Radix__> Anyone know if/when the pdf's from the WUC 06 talks are going to put on the webguidev.com site?
01:03 < Radix__> I've had questions from several people now about creating objects or workflows and stuff - and they'd help so much
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01:26 <+crythias> darn
01:27 <+crythias> hope I catch him later
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02:41 <@preaction-m> Radix__: i've been told that they'd appear after a while, I believe once we get the new support wiki created
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03:59 <+crythia1> where can I find a coder like that.
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04:47 <@preaction-m> like whom?
05:04 <+crythia1> I wish I had Jesse's code.
05:35 < Radix-wrk> my code?
05:39  * Radix-wrk hides his code from everyone.
05:39  * Radix-wrk strokes his code and moans "My Preciousssss...."
06:53 <+crythia1> hee
06:55 <+crythia1> Jesse is a friend. yeah I know he's been a good friend of mine. But lately something's change that ain't hard to define Jessie's got himself some code and I want to make it mine... And it's compiling all those lines... And it's got a hot runtime I just know it. Yeah 'n' he's adding more lines late, late at night...
06:57 <+crythia1> You know, I wish that I had Jessie's code, I wish that I had Jessie's code. Where can I find a code like that? 
06:57  * crythia1 has lost it. It's ok. you can agree.
06:57 <+crythia1> bump Radix-wrk
06:58 <@preaction-m> dude, where did you go?
06:59  * preaction-m wants whatever crythia1 is smoking
06:59 <+crythia1> heh
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07:28 < Radix-wrk> lol
07:29 < Radix-wrk> You know.. I actually started thinking it was something to do with the song "Jesse's Girl" - but then I thought.. no.. he can't be doing something that geeky.
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18:09 <+crythias> hee
18:10 < Radix__> drugs worn off now crythias?
18:10 <+crythias> I thought so. apologies.
18:11 < Radix__> hehe.. no need.. I had a chuckle :)
18:11 < Radix__> at your expense mind you.. but hey.. you did ask for it ;)
18:11 <+crythias> of course. not like you've not been bombarded with this all your life
18:12 < Radix__> It's a song that's been around for quite some time yes ;)
18:12 < Radix__> recently revitalised with the current 70's music revival
18:13 < Radix__> but she's mine.. she's all mine - noone can have my girl ;)
18:15 <+crythias> well I had fun with lyrics
18:15 < Radix__> you did well ;)
18:16 <+crythias> and it's got a hot runtime I just know it.
18:19 < Radix__> well it's past my bedtime.. nite :)
22:38 < ckotil> i think i found a bug in the versioning system
22:38 < ckotil> which prevented me from calling an asset a certain url, and i KNOW for certain there are no other assets with that url.
22:39 < ckotil> i think an open version tag is causing it.
22:39 < ckotil> im not working under the tag. its just sitting there idle. 
22:39 < ckotil> the work thats been done under that tag is entirely unrelated to the work i just tried to do.
22:41 < ckotil> ill file a bug report if/when i commit that open version tag and it sitll doesnt allow me to name the url what i want.
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--- Day changed Sat Dec 02 2006
01:01 < Jiggie> yoo
01:07 <@preaction> yooself?
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01:46 -!- preaction-m changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI (stable 7.2.3) | WRE (0.7.2) | Questions? Ask and wait patiently | Watch for migrant dork herds
01:55 <@preaction-m> so the new Calendar and the old EventsCalendar aren't really that different...
01:56 <@preaction-m> except the Calendar works ;)
01:56  * preaction-m finishes the upgrade script so that he can check in
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02:07 <@preaction-m> royjohnson: if i'm migrating every EventsCalendar wobject into a Calendar wobject, do I need to migrate all the old revisions or just the current revision?
02:08 < royjohnson> what non-sense art thou speaking
02:08 <@preaction-m> royjohnson: it'll also be nice when we get that IRC wobject created, people can join this channel from plainblack.com
02:08 < royjohnson> si 
02:08 <@preaction-m> i'm about to check in the new Calendar
02:08 < royjohnson> oh oh 
02:08 <@preaction-m> so i need to make the upgrade script
02:08 <@preaction-m> so do I migrate all the old revisions, or do I say "fuck em"
02:08 <@preaction-m> since they really have little purpose now
02:09 <@preaction-m> i mean, on the EC, only two columns are getting migrated, and on the Events there is currently no versioning
02:10 < royjohnson> well, you need to do something with them other than deleting them
02:10 <@preaction-m> damnit... i should just do it anyway, somebody's going to complain somehow that they can't revert to an old calendar from three years ago or something...
02:10 < royjohnson> yeah... data loss == bad
02:11 <@preaction-m> i mean i'll migrate the current revision of their EC assets, but the OLD ones
02:11 < royjohnson> is it any harder?
02:11 <@preaction-m> probably easier anyway, just copy one table to another
02:11 <@preaction-m> the asset and assetData tables won't change, except to update to the new className
02:12 <@preaction-m> then set some sane defaults, and get the templates all hunkydory
02:12 <@preaction-m> oh, calculate the recurrence pattern, i hope that works...
02:12 <@preaction-m> what if they deleted one recurrence?
02:13 <@preaction-m> the pattern isn't stored, but it looks like a relationship is...
02:15 <@preaction-m> BETTER IDEA: Don't calculate recurrence pattern at all! since all the events are created already (afaik)
02:15  * preaction-m is now thinking out loud. shutting up
02:15 <@preaction-m> perlbot hello
02:15 < perlbot> hello preaction-m
02:15 <@preaction-m> perlbot botspeak
02:17 <@preaction-m> perlbot 419
02:17 < perlbot> ESTEEMED SIR OR MADAM/DO NOT BE SURPRISED AS I HAVE YOUR NAME BY A NETWORK OF IRC (INTERNET)/I AM ABDUL MARJEEN BUDAHMI SUPERVISING MGR OF BAGDAD IRAQ BUS STATION/RECENT ROUTINE INSPECTION OF LOCKERS REVEALED A PARCEL, WHICH, WHEN OPENED PROVED TO CONTAIN (20 000 US) ANSWERS TO PERL COMPUTER LANGAUGE QUESTIONS.  I SEEK YOUR ASSISTANCE IN MOVING THESE OUT OF THE COUNTRY...
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07:41 < royjohnson> perlbot diss preaction
07:41 < perlbot> OMG preaction sucks.
07:41 <@preaction-m> wtf
07:41 <@preaction-m> i can't figure this out, once I use wG::Asset->new() how do I save the asset to the database?
07:41 <@preaction-m> update()?
07:41 < royjohnson> what?
07:42 < royjohnson> you want to change it's properties?
07:42 < royjohnson> or create a new instance
07:42 <@preaction-m> new instance
07:42 < royjohnson> only way to do that is addChild
07:42 <@preaction-m> i'm too strung out i can't figure a damn thing out
07:42 <@preaction-m> see, if i do it the way i'm doing it, it's impossible to rollback this upgrade if it fails, you'll have to reload the db backup
07:43 <@preaction-m> would that even be prudent? or will I get yelled at for that?
07:44 < royjohnson> why?  Just create a version tag in your code... add all your crap, change all your crap, commit the tag
07:44 <@preaction-m> what i'm doing it changing the database directly
07:44 < royjohnson> bad Doug!
07:44 < royjohnson> no no no
07:44 < royjohnson> =)
07:44 <@preaction-m> it's the best way, otherwise i only get the one version of the asset
07:44 <@preaction-m> this way i get all the previous  versions too
07:45 < royjohnson> why?
07:45 < royjohnson> you can specify revision date to the constructor
07:45 <@preaction-m> so i can get all the revisions and do it that way?
07:45 <@preaction-m> good god...
07:46 < royjohnson> yeah... query all by assetId
07:46 < royjohnson> that will give you every version
07:46 < royjohnson> then pass revisionDate to the constructor
07:47 <@preaction-m> and then get the properties, modify the properties, get the parent, add a child to the parent with the new properties, then trash the old asset
07:47 <@preaction-m> good lord in heaven
07:47 < royjohnson> no
07:47 < royjohnson> use update, it versions the asset
07:47 <@preaction-m> with a new className?
07:47 < royjohnson> if you're changing properties
07:47 < royjohnson> oh no
07:47 < royjohnson> it won't do that =)
07:48 < royjohnson> if you're creating a new asset using the old assets data
07:48 <@preaction-m> i'm changing EventsCalendars into Calendars
07:48 < royjohnson> you have to create one 
07:48 <@preaction-m> yeah
07:48 < royjohnson> using earliest rev date
07:48 < royjohnson> then update it once for each date
07:48 <@preaction-m> ... christ...
07:49 < royjohnson> am I making sense?
07:49 <@preaction-m> with the Events I won't need to go through all that BS, there's actually no way for me to do it that way
07:49 <@preaction-m> yes
07:49 <@preaction-m> it's just crap
07:49 < royjohnson> ok... you just want one asset not one asset for each revision
07:50 < royjohnson> the important thing is to make it work
07:50 < royjohnson> we can make it better later
07:50 <@preaction-m> so I grab the earliest revision, make the asset, and then add revisions
07:50 < royjohnson> just do the best you can and meet the spec
07:50 <@preaction-m> see, I won't be able to do that with the Events
07:50 < royjohnson> can you explain why?  without writing a novel =)
07:50 < royjohnson> or is it overly complex
07:51 <@preaction-m> because the module gets overwritten
07:51 <@preaction-m> i can't create the old asset, because the module is new
07:52 < royjohnson> I see
07:52 < royjohnson> that's kinda fucked
07:52 <@preaction-m> and since there's no way to rollback the Events without a db backup, i may as well not worry about the EC either
07:52 <@preaction-m> just going to have to put in the gotchas: "Do NOT perform this upgrade without a backup."
07:53 < royjohnson> well the upgrade does a backup unless you tell it not too
07:53 < royjohnson> s/too/to
07:53 <@preaction-m> right, but you can tell it not to
07:53 <@preaction-m> and if someone does, and it goes screwy, they're fucked
07:54 <@preaction-m> murphy's law...
07:54 < royjohnson> yeah
07:54 <@preaction-m> and he was an optimist
07:54 < royjohnson> the only way to get around this is to name Event something else, like CalEvent
07:54 < royjohnson> but even then, the upgrade would have to delete the old event module... scary
07:55 <@preaction-m> well, delete after it's succeeded, surely
07:56 <@preaction-m> or even delete it with the 7.4.0 release
07:56 < royjohnson> I think that's bad
07:56 < royjohnson> Have you asked JT his opinion?
07:56 < royjohnson> his the king of doing crazy stuff in an upgrade
07:56 < royjohnson> s/his/he's/
07:57 < royjohnson> sheesh, can't type
07:57 <@preaction-m> looks like he's N/A
07:57 < royjohnson> well, do your best... the release isn't till Wed so if he doesn't like it we can fix it
07:58 < royjohnson> don't get hung up on this, just get the thing working
07:58 <@preaction-m> yeah, i'm just going to do it
07:58 <@preaction-m> i'm going to collapse if i dont... :p
07:58 < royjohnson> and relax... it's just code, you got this =)
07:59 <@preaction-m> yeah, it's cake If i can figure out these error messages
07:59 < royjohnson> what are they?
07:59 <@preaction-m> i've been keeping track of all the ones that I get that aren't straightforward and I hope to go back and fix that situation
07:59 <@preaction-m> this one is "DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Operand should contain 1 column(s) at ../../lib/WebGUI/SQL/ResultSet.pm line 135"
08:00 <@preaction-m> also, I think that the errorHandler needs to be updated, and have some sort of class method to access it (so you don't need a session object to have error handling)
08:01 < royjohnson> That sql looks like a query with no column
08:01 <@preaction-m> select (assetId,revisionDate,defaultMonth) from EventsCalendar
08:02 <@preaction-m> there aren't supposed to be () are there?
08:02 < royjohnson> nope
08:02 <@preaction-m> i hate the little shit...
08:03 < royjohnson> I never noticed that before
08:03 < royjohnson> insert into blah (1,2,3) values (...); but select 1,2,3 from foo
08:03 < royjohnson> weird
08:04 <@preaction-m> hooray for inconsistent language specs :p
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15:06 <+crythias> hey
15:06 <+crythias> preaction
15:08 <+crythias> preaction-m, bump
15:09 <+crythias> Just reading the Calendar/Events Calendar thing
15:09 <+crythias> I don't understand why you have to overwrite EventsCalendar...
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00:41 <@preaction-m> crythias: the old EC will no longer work mainly because of the new Event Asset. It would, of course, be possible to finagle it so that they could co-exist, but I feel this way is better
00:41 <@preaction-m> that, and i was told to do it this way
00:42 <+crythias> k
01:24 <@preaction-m> would anybody here be able to recommend a wireless phone/data carrier? i'm currently looking at cingular with the 8125 smartphone
01:24 <@preaction-m> i wonder if skype would work with it
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13:20 < vidar_> hi
13:20 < Radix__> yo
13:21 < vidar_> have you ever had problems with the Head Block content i a template being displayed inside <body> ?
13:24 < Radix__> What kind of problems?
13:25 < vidar_> the <head> tags to a specific layout template appears not inside <head> of the document but rather inside the <body>
13:26 < Radix__> Hmm.. odd
13:26 < Radix__> by head tags you mean the ones you're adding in the metadata page for the template?
13:26 < vidar_> yes
13:27 < vidar_> special CSS
13:27 < Radix__> Hmm.. not ever had that problem myself
13:27 < Radix__> but to be honest, I've only used the metadata head section once or twice
13:27 < Radix__> I have a global css file I've embedded for the site
14:25 < vidar_> I am trying to use different css for the printable version
14:26 < vidar_> but it always embedds the 3 column layout wiht all the sidabar stuff that is not needed in the print version
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16:42 < Jiggie> sup peoples
16:43 < Jiggie> preaction xdanger how ya been
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16:49 < Jiggie> sup peoples again....
16:55 < Jiggie> what permissions should my mysql apache public folders have and who should own them in webgui
16:55 < Jiggie> my site after a few permission changes does not come up
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17:18 <@preaction-m> Jiggie: check /data/wre/prereqs/mysql/var/`uname -n`.err if your error logs say "cannot connect to database"
17:28 < Jiggie> its connecting now
17:30 < Jiggie> i think i have to run a fix for mysql tables "myisamchk -Br *.MYI"
17:30 < Jiggie> cant seem to remember how to do it. as i'm getting this error now 061204 10:33:30 [ERROR] /data/wre/prereqs/mysql/libexec/mysqld: Can't open file: 'userSessionScratch.MYI
17:30 < Jiggie> ' (errno: 14
17:31 <@preaction-m> what's errno 14? i always have to look them up at mysql.com
17:31 < Jiggie> give me that site u sed to paste code again pls
17:33 <@preaction-m> perlbot pastebin
17:33 < perlbot> (see paste)
17:33 <@preaction-m> perlbot paste
17:33 < perlbot> Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.
17:43 < Jiggie> ermo..no idea and i remember not to check the channels...
17:47 < Jiggie> it says is a bad table and i need to repair it. so i should do REPAIR TABLE userSessionScratch; does that make sense
17:47 <@preaction-m> i don't know. that much is beyond me. i believe that myisamchk or one of the other command-line tools can repair the tables
17:50 < Jiggie> i'll try it, it seems to go with what happened to us. the database got corrupted when the space filled up read here
17:50 < Jiggie> http://www.redrook.com/faqs/mysql-error-cant-open-file-something.myd-errno-145.php
17:52 < Jiggie> that seemd to work
17:52 < Jiggie> wohooo
18:20 < Jiggie> yeah baby this is working
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06:12 <@preaction-m> show us your +o face, roy!
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23:11 < Jiggie> quiet here
23:11 <@preaction-m> too quiet...
23:31 < Jiggie> yeah
23:32 < Jiggie> do i need to come and make some noise
23:55 < Radix__> get jiggie with it
23:55  * Radix__ breaks down and does a boogie.
--- Day changed Wed Dec 06 2006
00:11 < snapcount> I just brought WebGUI to a new low
00:11 < snapcount> yes!
00:11 < snapcount> preaction... you're disturbing my slumber
00:22 <@preaction-m> snapcount you're totally blowing my vibe
00:27 < snapcount> I wrote a bash macro for WebGUI at 3am this morning
00:41 < snapcount> Now people can have random nuggets of vulgar and twisted humor in their wG site!
00:41 < snapcount> yay!
00:41  * snapcount is a tad loopy
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03:06 < Radix-wrk> ooh.. fun stuff
03:06 < Radix-wrk> added a user profile field with type Yes No and now whenever a user goes to edit their profile it comes up with:
03:06 < Radix-wrk> 2006/12/06 09:04:35 - ERROR - webgui.formsys.com.conf - main::[[undef]] - Couldn't execute operation : WebGUI::Operation::Profile::www_editProfile. Root cause: Can't use string ("Yes
03:06 < Radix-wrk> No") as a HASH ref while "strict refs" in use at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ProfileField.pm line 159.
03:14 <@preaction-m> ooh a bug
03:14 <@preaction-m> put it in the bugtracker and we'll fix it tomorrow
03:15 <@preaction-m> what's the best way to make a workflow run immediately?
03:15 < Radix-wrk> go to current workflows and hit run?
03:15 <@preaction-m> there's no "run"
03:15 <@preaction-m> just "enabled"
03:16 <@preaction-m> in the "Show Running Workflows" there's a "run" link, but the workflow hasn't started yet
03:17 < Radix-wrk> Hmm.. can you fake the url that webgui uses to get it to run that way?
03:17 <@preaction-m> not until an instance of the workflow is created
03:18 <@preaction-m> how do workflows get tested?
03:18 < Radix-wrk> good question
03:18 <@preaction-m> i imagine i can write a utility to do it for me
03:21 < Radix-wrk> yeah, you need a workflow instance id first before you can do anything in webgui with it
03:22 <@preaction-m> it's also annoying that I can't just do something to run my hourly tasks right now instead of later, sometimes I want to
03:23 <@preaction-m> i'll make the utility now, and make an RFE to add it to the admin console
03:23 < Radix-wrk> Yeah, a 'run now' next to each scheduled workflow task would be nice
03:42 < Radix-wrk> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/three-profile-field-bugs#WUbOA_Ks3B-PlLvk93pQVg
03:43 < Radix-wrk> Found three bugs in all with user profiles then.  What fun
03:45 <@preaction-m> fun indeed
03:45 <@preaction-m> gives us something to do for bugfix day tomorrow
04:05 < Radix-wrk> You good at sql queries by any chance?
04:05 <@preaction-m> sometimes
04:05 < Radix-wrk> SELECT 
04:05 < Radix-wrk>   a.fieldData AS "Email Address"
04:05 < Radix-wrk>   c.fieldData AS "Opt-Out"
04:05 < Radix-wrk>   users.status AS "User Status"
04:05 < Radix-wrk> FROM 
04:05 < Radix-wrk>   users
04:05 < Radix-wrk>   left join userProfileData as a on users.userId=a.userId and a.fieldName = 'email'
04:05 <@preaction-m> perlbot paste
04:05 < Radix-wrk>   left join groupings as b on users.userId=b.userId
04:05 < perlbot> Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.
04:05 < Radix-wrk>   left join userProfileData as c on users.userId=c.userId and c.fieldName = 'emailoptout'
04:05 < Radix-wrk> WHERE
04:05 < Radix-wrk>   b.groupId = 'IpZgQn75FPEsLgDpxSzL1w'
04:05 < Radix-wrk> ORDER BY 
04:05 < Radix-wrk>   users.dateCreated DESC
04:06 <@preaction-m> or http://pastebin.com or something
04:14 < Radix-wrk> pastebin doesn't seem to respond (submit it and it sits there loading for ages) - the other two seem to be for automating spamming on #perl channel
04:15 <@preaction-m> you can select "none" as a channel
04:15 <@preaction-m> http://sial.org/pbot/none
04:16 < Radix-wrk> http://sial.org/pbot/21635
04:17 < Radix-wrk> I think it's a left-join I'm doing wrong or something.. but not sure how to do it right
04:18 <@preaction-m> are you sure you can use quoted strings for AS?
04:18 < Radix-wrk> I've done it before in a previous sql query (which does work)
04:20 < Radix-wrk> http://sial.org/pbot/21636 is the one I based it on
04:20 <@preaction-m> hang on, i know frank wrote one just like this on another site
04:20 < Radix-wrk> which I wrote a year or so ago
04:21 <@preaction-m> what's the error message?
04:21 < Radix-wrk> it's the double left-join to the same table that I'm not sure about - but don't know how else to do it
04:21 <@preaction-m> the join is fine, frank did it for a client and it seems to work
04:21 < Radix-wrk> 2006/12/06 10:07:49 - WARN - webgui.formsys.com.conf - main::[[undef]] - There was a problem with the query: You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near 'c.fieldData AS "Opt-Out"
04:21 < Radix-wrk>   users.status AS "User Status"
04:21 < Radix-wrk> FROM
04:21 < Radix-wrk>   users
04:21 < Radix-wrk>   lef' at line 3
04:22 <@preaction-m> you forgot commas between the field names
04:22 <@preaction-m> SELECT field, field, field
04:22 < Radix-wrk> Oh god I did too..
04:22 <@preaction-m> i didn't notice until i looked at the working one ;)
04:23 <@preaction-m> they should change "near" to "before", it'd make more sense in those messages
04:23 < Radix-wrk> ooh.. now I'm getting a new one
04:23 < Radix-wrk> 2006/12/06 10:22:47 - WARN - webgui.formsys.com.conf - main::[[undef]] - Unconditional read failed: <rest of the sql follows>
04:24 < Radix-wrk> Ahh.. found it
04:24 <@preaction-m> snapcount: aren't you supposed to be asleep instead of replying to the support boards?
04:25 < Radix-wrk> thanks preaction-m - just needed a different set of eyes :)
04:25 <@preaction-m> i know how that is
04:28 < snapcount> yeah
04:28 < snapcount> I'm over-achieving today
04:28 <@preaction-m> amen to that
04:28 < snapcount> I think sleep depravation is making me crazy
04:29 <@preaction-m> lol you and me both
04:29 < Radix-wrk> heh
04:29 <@preaction-m> is there any special way to test Workflows? 
04:29 <@preaction-m> i mean, i already wrote a utility to do it, but now that i've wasted an hour, tell me it was completely in vain
04:29 < Radix-wrk> sleep deprivation ain't bad for your health - as long as she's cute
04:30 <@preaction-m> she is a rough trick named Frank who looks like an Elvis Impersonator
04:30 < Radix-wrk> heh.. I think I might have seen her in las vegas when I was there then :)
04:30 <@preaction-m> i've been told she frequents the scene down there
04:32 < snapcount> what do you mean by test the workflow?
04:33 < snapcount> like, force it to run?
04:33 <@preaction-m> like test it, develop it, make sure it works
04:33 <@preaction-m> basically
04:33 <@preaction-m> create a new instance and force it to run
04:33 < snapcount> yeah... create a schedule entry for it
04:34 < snapcount> then you click "run" to run it whenever you want
04:34 <@preaction-m> "run" where?
04:34 < snapcount> goto manage cron in the ac
04:34 < snapcount> each schedule is listed, run button to the right
04:34 <@preaction-m> the Scheduler, okay
04:35 <@preaction-m> i could've added a new task here... damnit...
04:35 < snapcount> isn't it fun learning the UI side of wG?
04:35 < snapcount> it's almost like learning something entirely different
04:35 <@preaction-m> sometimes...
04:36 <@preaction-m> sometimes i'm amazed at what I can do with it, other times i'm frustrated by what I can't
04:36 <@preaction-m> either way, it's an hour wasted
04:36 <@preaction-m> in any case, sbin/runWorkflow.pl will be added once I've documented it properly
04:37 < snapcount> I feel like I could use the API to do just about anything... however, I am still so far behind in what WebGUI can already do out of the box
04:37 < snapcount> make sure you clear that with JT on the dev list
04:37 < Radix-wrk> can you use != in sql queries?
04:37 <@preaction-m> Radix-wrk: <> i think
04:37 < snapcount> he'll freak if you check something in that's not approved as a new feature
04:37 < snapcount> <>
04:37 <@preaction-m> snapcount: ahh, i'll clear it tomorrow
04:38 <@preaction-m> it's useful in any case
04:38 < snapcount> I'm sure it will be fine
04:38 < snapcount> sounds useful to me
04:38 <@preaction-m> then an RFE to make "Run" links for Workflows (not just scheduler)
04:39 < snapcount> you mean for activities?
04:39 < snapcount> or on the workflow screen
04:39 <@preaction-m> for entire workflows
04:39 <@preaction-m> or individual activities, whatever
04:39 < snapcount> oh ok, so you can do it from the manage workflows screen
04:40 < snapcount> that would be cool... one less step
04:40 <@preaction-m> some of them shouldn't be forced to run though, like the VersionTag ones
04:40 <@preaction-m> so there'd probably have to be a property to designate which are able to be forced
04:40 < snapcount> isBitch?
04:40 < snapcount> lol
04:40 <@preaction-m> canSmack?
04:41 <@preaction-m> you're evil
04:41 < snapcount> p0wn3d?
04:44 < Radix-wrk> wierd.  <> doesn't work if the value is undefined - and since it's a new profile field, no current user has it defined (except the test user I just set)
04:45 <@preaction-m> IS NOT NULL
04:45 < Radix-wrk> so c.fieldData IS NOT NULL and c.fieldData <> 1
04:49 < Radix-wrk> cool.. didn't know about IS NULL/IS NOT NULL
04:49 <@preaction-m> a shortcoming of the SQL language
04:49 < Radix-wrk> worked out to be (c.fieldData IS NULL OR c.fieldData <> 1) in the end was what I needed
04:50 < Radix-wrk> thanks :)
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17:23 < Jiggie> dd
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20:04 < bipolar> I'm trying to upgrade a webgui instance. It's currently upgraded to 6.8.10, but when I try to upgrade to 7.1.2 it says it needs no upgrades. ./upgrade.pl --doit --history shows that it is at version 6.8.10, and it finds the upgrade executable from 6.8.10 to 6.99.0.
20:24 < bipolar> looks like a bug in the upgrade script. removeing all the upgrade history except for the latest version seems to triger the upgrade.
20:24 < bipolar> I think it's just looking for the last in the list and the sorting confuses it.
21:09 < Jiggie> bipolar
21:09 < Jiggie> u ar ein luck
21:10 < bipolar> hmm?
21:10 < Jiggie> u must drop the database
21:10 < Jiggie> then import it again and try the upgrade script
21:10 < Jiggie> i just went tru that
21:10 < Jiggie> at the same spot
21:12 < bipolar> I did that, and it still stuck. The upgrade script only saw the last version in 'perl ./upgrade.pl --doit --history', and since the sorting made that 6.8.9 and not 6.8.10 it did not know it had an upgrade script available for it.
21:12 < bipolar> so I edited the version table so that .10 was the only one there, and it upgraded it.
21:12 < bipolar> it's working now.
21:13 < bipolar> accept for images only being vewable by people logged in even though they are set to 'everyone'
21:17 < Jiggie> i c
21:17 < Jiggie> it must be permision issues
21:17 < Jiggie> mine crapped out but its now working after a few bumps
21:18 < Jiggie> crap gui is not bad when its running, not so easy to fix when its not
22:09 < bipolar> whenever I change something, then commit the changes, that item is 'locked'. how does an item get unlocked?
22:10 < bipolar> I see this image I changes the metadata on in 'versions' as a pending version, but I see no way to get it out of pending so I can change it again.
22:15 < bipolar> wtf.... In the webgui log, it seems that requests are being sent to spectre from the machines public ip address, not 127.0.0.1.
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02:11  * crythias jumps aside as a migrant dork heard nearly runs him over.
02:11 <+crythias> herd, even
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02:53 < snapcount> you have to watch for those dork herds
02:53  * Radix-wrk looks around in fear.
02:53 -!- snapcount changed the topic of #webgui to: #WebGUI WebGUI (stable 7.2.3) | WRE (0.7.2) | Questions? Ask and wait patiently | Watch for migrant dork herds and bunnies
02:53 < Radix-wrk> Wabbit Season!
03:01 <+crythias> duck season
03:14 < Radix-wrk> Wabbit Season!
03:14 < Radix-wrk> WebGUI Season! Fire!
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05:03 < Radix-wrk> Site down for maintenance huh
05:07 < snapcount> 7.3.0 is in the house
05:07 < snapcount> the wiki is here!!!
05:07 < snapcount> well, it's almost here
05:08 < Radix-wrk> heh
05:08 < Radix-wrk> hasn't finished upgrading yet :)
05:08 < snapcount> assuming the pb.com upgrade doesn't cause fire and brimstone
05:08 < snapcount> nope... event calendar is being replaced with the new calendar
05:08 < snapcount> so it's taking a while to migrate
05:09 < Radix-wrk> ooh.. preaction's new stuff :)
05:09 < snapcount> yeah
05:17 < Radix-wrk> it's dead.. it's dead! :)
05:21 < Radix-wrk> ooh.. proxy error now
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05:29 < Radix-wrk> hehe.. site dead now.. methinks I'll be waiting for 7.3.1 or 7.3.2 ;)
05:38 < snapcount> yeah... some goof didn't check that an object was created before calling a method on it
05:38 < snapcount> this is why we upgrade pb.com before pushing a release
05:39 < snapcount> the upgrade is running again but I left apache offline to make it go faster
05:42 < Radix-wrk> :)
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07:09 < Radix-wrk> cool!.. like the new features in 7.3.0 - sounds good :)
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19:41 < xdanger> Is there a reason for the wiki wobject not to be enabled in the demo.plainblack.com?
19:42 < xdanger> would like to try it out =)
19:46 < snapcount> I added one to demo earlier
19:46 < snapcount> why do you say it's not enabled?
19:49 < xdanger> tried it last night and it wasn't on the asset list
19:50 < snapcount> oh
19:50 < snapcount> last night demo wasn't upgraded
19:50 < snapcount> I upgraded it this morning
19:51 < xdanger> O yes now it is =)
19:51 < xdanger> I didn't really look that hard... just a quick test...
19:51 < xdanger> hmm.. I'll go play ;)
19:51 < snapcount> usually I upgrade right after the release but last night I was tired so I slacked off
19:52 < snapcount> have fun
19:57 < xdanger> There's no "automatic linking" sort of stuff? just normal "link to a page in webgui asset tree"?
19:57 < xdanger> Oh, no there is... I just had a typo =)
19:59 < xdanger> only that it links to /home... not to /whateveryourdemorootis/home/...
20:06 < xdanger> O and it doesn't work with non-ascii characters... like дце
20:11 < snapcount> neither does my irc apparently
20:11 < snapcount> I saw [incompatible encoding] at the end of your message
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21:58 < xdanger> snapcount: when is wre 0.8 coming out? any eta?
21:59 < snapcount> not sure... I have my patches ready for JT for all of the setup improvements, but he's working on some new stuff too so I'm not sure
22:00 < xdanger> ok, I'm just upgrading my webgui fron 6.8 to 7.2 and upgrading the wre in the process...
22:00 < xdanger> I'm just getting ready for testing my own code upgrades...
22:00 < xdanger> (custom assets and macros)
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23:16 < Jiggie> just set up the latyest beta on fedora 6 in less than 15 minutes
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23:27 < william_> anybody here familiar with the SQLForm wobject? I've got a coding question regarding how tables are imported.
23:29 < william_> ok, i'll try the lists
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18:58 < ckotil> Where is this new wiki? is it part of the collaboration system?
18:59 < ckotil> i read wiki object. but i dont see it
18:59 < ckotil> i see the logo's ;)
19:09 < ckotil> nvm.
19:09 < ckotil> i grabbed 7.0.3 lol
19:14 < ckotil> its.... rough
19:21 < ckotil> man. my lead engineer rips on webgui. aknowledging that its a powerful system. but insists the learning curve is steep
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22:42 <@preaction-m> rotatelogs keeps destroying my computer... i think it has problems working with very large log files
22:45 <@snapcount> prolly
22:47 <@preaction-m> so wyoh is down until sunday night when i get home...
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20:42 <@snapcount> anyone around?
22:02 <+crythias> guess so
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15:27 < mindspin> anyone here using stil 5.5.8 and able to give me some advise on HolyMenu questions?
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19:04 < bipolar> Is there a way to have WebGUI's forms send emails via authenticated smtp? Our server does not have the option of anonymous smtp from localhost when sending from an email address from a domain it controls.
19:05 < preaction-m> "does not" or "is not configured to"?
19:05 < preaction-m> to be honest, i don't even know where the configuration settings for the mail server that WebGUI uses
19:07 < bipolar> does not
19:08 < bipolar> there is no option to do that. it's either allow all senders to spoof your domain or none.
19:08 < bipolar> preaction-m: the only thing I see is a field for the mail server's host name.
19:08 < preaction-m> what mail server are you running?
19:08 < bipolar> Citadel
19:09 < bipolar> The only thing I can think of is to setup a postfix frontend for it.
19:09 < preaction-m> must say I've never heard of that one. no chance of running something decent like postfix or sendmail?
19:09 < bipolar> Yeah, I can setup a frontend w/ postfix.
19:10 < bipolar> it's designed to allow that, but it's just another thing to set up and maintain.
19:10 < preaction-m> why not replace citadel w/ postfix?
19:10 < bipolar> although it does allow more control
19:10 < bipolar> citadel is more then smtp
19:10 < preaction-m> also, add an RFE for authenticated smtp
19:10 < bipolar> citadel is a full groupware server.
19:10 < preaction-m> if there isn't one already
19:11 < preaction-m> so smtp+imap?
19:11 < bipolar> well, it has Auth SMTP, thats the problem. I can turn it off so anyone can send mail, or leave it on
19:11 < bipolar> smtp+imap/s+pop3/s+ical+groupdav+kolab... etc... etc.
19:11 < preaction-m> i meant, add an RFE for WebGUI to handle authenticated SMTP
19:11 < bipolar> preaction-m: hehe.. yeah. doh...
19:19 < bipolar> Looks like, at least for the time being, I'm going to have to setup postfix on this box. good thing Citadel has an LMTP socket to make it easier.
19:19 < preaction-m> maybe just setup sendmail and disallow anyone to connect to port 22 on that box
19:19 < preaction-m> (except from localhost of course)
19:22 < bipolar> preaction-m: you mean port 25? thats used by citadel right now, so whatever I setup on that port must replace it's functionality.
19:22 < bipolar> unless webgui can be setup to send mail via a diffrent port... hmmm...
19:24 < bipolar> preaction-m: I don't see an option for a port number in webgui either :\
19:24 < bipolar> it's ok. I've worked with postfix before, I can handle it :)
19:24 < preaction-m> but seriously, RFE for better mail server controls. I
19:24 < preaction-m> m surprised wG doesn't have them already
19:25 < bipolar> yeah... me too.
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05:53 <@snapcount> the community wiki will soon be a reality!
05:54 <@snapcount> Just waiting for someone to sign off on the "we're not responsible for errors or ommissions" statement
05:54 <@snapcount> but I've already started putting stuff in it
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06:03 <@preaction-m> can I only add nodes from the asset manager?
06:03 <@preaction-m> hey... get back here damnit
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12:19 < vidar_> heya
12:20 < vidar_> who was it that did the new calendar again/
12:35 < Radix__> preaction
12:38 < Radix__> Hmm.. just thought I'd check out the demo of it on demo.pb and it crashed when i created a calendar object
12:39 < Radix__> http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1165919754_500/home?op=switchOnAdmin
12:39 < Radix__> Problem with request
12:40 < Radix__> yikes.. assets list seems broken too.. and keeps logging me out
12:42 < Radix__> Oh well.. that's why they call it a beta ;)
14:22 < vidar_> hehe
14:23 < vidar_> I have seen worse things marked stable
14:23 < vidar_> like search function not working
14:23 < vidar_> how is that stable?
14:23 < vidar_> :)
15:52 -!- snapcount [n=royjohns@224.248.95.24.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui
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16:08 < Radix__> I agree with you there vidar! :)
16:58 < xdanger> demo.pb isn't runnings stable =)
16:58 < snapcount> it always runs the latest just like pb.com
17:00 < xdanger> snapcount: vidar_ was earlier saying that search function isn't working =), and then commenting that " < vidar_> how is that stable?"
17:00 < snapcount> oh ok
17:00 < snapcount> late to the party =)
17:01 < snapcount> didn't know search wasn't working though
17:01 < snapcount> I don't think that's on the bug list
17:08 < xdanger> also to recap: 12:40 < Radix__> yikes.. assets list seems broken too.. and keeps logging me out
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19:31 < vidar_> snapcount: is didn't work couple of months ago
19:32 < vidar_> when the conference was held
19:33 < snapcount> are you saying it doesn't work now?
19:33 < snapcount> I know it was broke back then
19:36 < vidar_> I was saying it was broken back then and the version was marked stable
19:55 < ckotil> the PHP BB Skin/Template is sweet. Id like to see a media wiki template for the wiki asset
19:59 < vidar_> gallery2 template would be more practical
19:59 < vidar_> the wiki is so new
20:08 <@preaction-m> I still don't know why they didn't implement it as a tree of user-editable Articles
20:09 < vidar_> implement what?
20:09 < vidar_> the wiki?
20:10 <@preaction-m> yes
20:10 < vidar_> how is it implemented?
20:11 <@preaction-m> there's two new assets: WikiMaster and WikiPage
20:11 <@preaction-m> I'm thinking that WikiPage could've been done without, and instead uses an existing asset/wobject like Post or Article
20:11 < vidar_> like calendar and event I suppose
20:12 <@preaction-m> a little different, Event has functionality that Post doesn't have
20:12 <@preaction-m> though, I could've made Event a subclass of Post
20:12 < vidar_> are you happy with your new calendar?
20:12 < vidar_> I have yet to try it
20:12 < vidar_> but have been looking forward to it
20:12 <@preaction-m> I was rushed. There are bugs that nobody knows about and there are kludges that make me ashamed
20:13 < vidar_> ahh
20:13 <@preaction-m> but otherwise, it's a ten thousand percent improvement over the EventsCalendar
20:13 < ckotil> nice
20:13 < ckotil> gallery2 would be sweet. i use that app at home.
20:13 < vidar_> dont need much to improve that
20:13 < vidar_> the EventsCalendar that is
20:14 < vidar_> perhaps I will look at it at demo.pb
20:14 <@preaction-m> the main problem I have right now is that iCalendar implementation is a kludge. I wrote my own parser and my own recursion generator, something I could've delegated to cpan modules.
20:14 <@preaction-m> it works, but it's not clean code
20:14 < vidar_> can you create events in the past?
20:15 < vidar_> that was a bug in the old one
20:15 <@preaction-m> that and iCalendar has a much richer way of describing recursion, and I haven't implemented that in the Calendar
20:15 <@preaction-m> i see no reason why you can't create events in the past
20:15 <@preaction-m> at least, I didn't put in anything that forces you to create events only in the present/future
20:16 < vidar_> it was a bug in the old one, old omnths were empty
20:17 < vidar_> the most annyoing thing is if you clicked on a date in the small month view then it would pull out only one event from the day and show it to you
20:19 <@preaction-m> yeah, those parts are completely redone. i believe I did it the only logical way I could
20:19 < vidar_> sweet
20:19 <@preaction-m> the only thing the old EC and the new Calendar really shared are what type of view to show by default (Day, Week, Month) and where to start by default (first event, last event, current date, which nobody knows that I haven't implemented yet... sshhh...)
20:20 < vidar_> the old EC could not show week
20:20 <@preaction-m> the more important part about the new Calendar is that it be easily subclassed for such things as a request calendar (request a resource for certain time periods, a vacation calendar) or a project calendar (integration into the project manager anyone?)
20:21 < vidar_> I think the most important part about a calendar is that it works :)
20:21 <@preaction-m> i believe my next project is a vacation-type calendar, which i'm trying to imagine as flexibly as possible
20:21 <@preaction-m> pfft, working is just a side-effect of good design and clean code
20:22 < vidar_> if it compiles, it works
20:22 <@preaction-m> :p what about runtime errors? divide by zero?
20:22 < vidar_> right?
20:22 < vidar_> :P
20:22 < vidar_> the real errors are logical errors
20:23 < vidar_> have seen way to many for the past months
20:23 <@preaction-m> yeah... timezones are not fun to work with. nor generating dates from an english phrase like "Every Sunday Monday and Tuesday on the Third week of every 2 months"
20:24 < vidar_> hehe
20:24 < vidar_> calendar is the nightmare of general programming imo
20:25 <@preaction-m> as it is, i thought of about 10 ways to make it better, as long as I have free reign to break the Calendar API (and I put big warnings on the parts of the API that will change)
20:25 <@preaction-m> i didn't have time for nightmares, i wasn't even sleeping :p
20:28 < vidar_> what about the "no api changes to 2030"?
20:28 < vidar_> :)
20:30 <@preaction-m> that's what he said at the WUC?
20:31 <@preaction-m> but I meant specifically the methods I created in the Calendar
20:31 <@preaction-m> like getEventsIn() and get/setRecurrence
20:44 < snapcount> the rules apply to calendar too preaction-m, but not until it's labeled stable
20:44 < snapcount> at that point your apis have to remain backwards compatible
21:23 <@preaction-m> you're not making 7.3.1 stable are you?
21:24 <@preaction-m> rather: do I get to make the decision when the Calendar is stable?
21:26 <@preaction-m> the main thing is the recurrence patterns: I want them to be in the iCalendar format, which means changing the Event asset's getRecurrence, setRecurrence, and getRecurrenceDates methods. Then I would consider the APIs to be stable (at least, it would be possible to maintain backwards-compatibility)
21:31 < snapcount> no no
21:31 < snapcount> have ya *seen* the bug list =)
21:32 < snapcount> the bug list decides when something is stable
21:32 < snapcount> but I guess I decide what the bug list is telling us
21:33 < snapcount> of course if you have a concern, you should voice it... I won't label a release stable if there are major problems and you know the most about the cal
21:33 < snapcount> so it all comes full circle I guess
21:34 < snapcount> well, I would like to see 7.3 be stable by next week... but it might not be until after the break
21:59 < vidar_> Ill wait
23:57 -!- zor0 [n=ian@c-24-22-67-104.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
23:58 < zor0> I'm trying to install webgui and the wre is horribly breaking the mysql instalation on my ubuntu system, where should I be looking for help?
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00:33 <@preaction-m> it's difficult to install side-by-side the WRE mysql and another mysql
00:33 <@preaction-m> (because mysql INSISTS on using /etc/my.cnf)
00:34 <@preaction-m> you might be better off removing mysql from the wre and just using your existing version
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00:49 < zor0> ok, I dont have a seperate mysql install. I meant it was breaking its own install
00:51 <@preaction-m> what do you mean by breaking its own install?
00:51 < zor0> right now I've got the wre mysql ans apache servers working but the addsite script fails because /data/WebGUI doesn't exist, causing Hoster::WebGUIConfig to fail
00:51 <@preaction-m> why doesn't data/WebGUI exist?
00:52 < zor0> I mean I am running the setup wre script for ubuntu on my linux box and it kills the mysql server it comes with
00:52 < zor0> it dosen't, never got created by the script, theres just /data/wre where all the stuff is
00:52 <@preaction-m> the script should've asked if you wanted to install WebGUI from a mirror
00:53 < zor0> never did
00:53 <@preaction-m> you're using the contributed wre 0.7.1 for ubuntu?
00:54 < zor0> 0.7.2
00:55 < zor0> ok, when it exits it says that some files didn't match and gives me the diff commands do see what has changed, but then says "Setup Complete", so I take it that the script skipped a step and says its done anyway?
00:55 <@preaction-m> might want to destroy /data/wre and try re-installing
00:56 < zor0> I've only done that about 5 times, it never works right
00:56 <@preaction-m> are you following the steps on /data/wre/docs/install.txt ?
00:57 < zor0> this is really close to working, I just need to make it install that stuff apparently, I think it skipped it because I stoped and restarted the install script while tinkering with mysql
00:57 <@preaction-m> yes, the install script is annoying that way
00:57 < zor0> I was following the install.txt doc, but it offer ZERO help the minute I get an error from setup
00:58 < zor0> so, the setup exits because it thinks two config files have been edited manualy
00:58 < zor0> Some of your configs don't match the defaults. Run these diff commands to find out what's different:
00:58 < zor0>         diff /data/wre/etc/stats.modproxy /data/wre/var/setupfiles/stats.modproxy
00:58 < zor0>         diff /data/wre/etc/backup.conf /data/wre/var/setupfiles/backup.conf
00:58 < zor0> Setup Complete!
00:59 < zor0> so, can I delete  /data/wre/var/setupfiles/backup.conf and it will be recreated with whatever new settings the installer is trying to use and then the installer will continue?
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01:09 <@preaction-m> no, you'd want to delete the ones from /data/wre/etc
01:10 < zor0> ok, I've made the files match, now when I run the setup script, it asks me if I want to run it again, I say yes, it does its thing, says "Setup Complete!" and exits
01:10 < zor0> and apprently skipped actually installing /data/WebGUI
01:18 <@preaction-m> you could just download WebGUI
01:18 < zor0> how can I do that?
01:19 < zor0> wait, that dir is just a copy of the non-wre files?
01:19 < zor0> well, I already scrapped it and I'm going to try and document what I'm doing this time
01:19 <@preaction-m> http://www.plainblack.com/getwebgui
01:19 <@preaction-m> under Download Source
01:20 < zor0> oh, I already wiped everything like you suggested
01:24 < zor0> preaction-m: are you a web-gui developer?
01:31 <@preaction-m> i'm employed by Plainblack, yes
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01:34 < zor0> allright, I've figured it out, basically whatever wrapper you hava around sudo is horrible and unreliable
01:34 < zor0> it asks for my password and the script keeps right on runnind, I can't enter the password
01:35 <@preaction-m> there's a reason the WRE is in the 0.* series
01:35 < zor0> so a bunch of stuff fails, and then the setup script borks itself for lack of error checking
01:35 < zor0> why do you guys recomend it and call it "easy to install" then?
01:37 <@preaction-m> because it's far better than installing all the prereqs on each system manually?
01:37 < Radix-wrk> it's a hell of a lot easier than installing all of the perl modules/apache/mysql/etc manually
01:37 < Radix-wrk> I've had a wre setup installed from scratch in about 20 minutes.. including OS install (which took most of that)
01:37 < Radix-wrk> restoring from backup with the wre is even easier
01:38 < zor0> that could all be done automated using apt on debian distros, yum on rh, etc
01:38 <@preaction-m> i dunno man, Roy and I have been trying to bring one of PBs servers up for the last 4 hours
01:38 < Radix-wrk> not easily no
01:38 < Radix-wrk> I've tried managing the webgui stuff with debian using apt-get and it was a mess
01:38 <@preaction-m> zor0: and what about non-apt and non-rpm based distros? what about windows? what about mac os x?
01:38 < zor0> I like the idea, but please make the setup script verbose enough that when it spits out errors I have some idea what it was trying to do
01:39 < Radix-wrk> Webgui requires a LOT of perl modules - and a lot of the ones it depends on are the latest versions
01:39 < zor0> preaction-m: they can use the annoying setup script
01:39 < Radix-wrk> I had to go to debian testing to get half of them.. the other half weren't in debian at all.. and had to get them from cpan
01:39 < zor0> the setup script is fine, it needs to have more error checking and be more helpful when things go wrong
01:40 < Radix-wrk> Yeah, it does
01:40 <@preaction-m> i'll agree
01:40 <@preaction-m> and if i were allowed to touch the WRE, i'd help
01:40 < zor0> it looks like the sudo thing was just coded badly
01:40 < zor0> heh, you aren't allowed to work on it?
01:40 <@preaction-m> for now, it's just JT
01:41 <@preaction-m> the other three devs have their hands full with WebGUI
01:41 < Radix-wrk> snapcount did a few fixes.. and had a few ideas on how to improve it
01:41 < snapcount> they are going in 0.8
01:41 < snapcount> 1.0 will probably be the web based installer
01:41 <@preaction-m> he's got a wonderful idea for a web-based interface that should rock all high
01:41 < snapcount> already started writing it =)
01:42 < Radix-wrk> yup.. I heard his ideas for it at the WUC :)
01:42 < zor0> I build perl web apps, and have plenty of experience with debian/apache/perl/mysql, I just expected this to be easy for me
01:43 < Radix-wrk> what went wrong?
01:43 < zor0> the wre mysql install dies horribly
01:43 < Radix-wrk> did you delete /etc/my.cnf before you started?
01:44 < zor0> it tries to start it, asks for the password to sudo, and then doesn't wait for input, just keeps running 
01:44 < zor0> yeah, I've read install.txt
01:44 < Radix-wrk> err.. you mean you weren't running it as root to start with?
01:44 < zor0> I have no /etc/my.cnf or other mysql/apache install
01:44 < zor0> no, I wasn't
01:44 < zor0> none of the docs tell me to
01:44 < Radix-wrk> well you'll need to run it as root
01:45 < zor0> and the script looked like it was set up to sudo where it needed to
01:45 < zor0> god damit, why doesn't it say that in the docs?
01:46 < Radix-wrk> okay.. so try it in a root shell?
01:46 < zor0> doing it now
01:48 < Radix-wrk> did you delete your /data dir and unzip the wre once more from scratch, or just run it again from where you left off before?  (I know the wre is fussy like that - it will often bomb out if you do the latter, so I do recommend the former)
02:00 < zor0> should everything I unpack into /data be owned by root?
02:00 < zor0> gah!
02:00 < zor0> Do you have WebGUI local or should I get it from a mirror? {local|mirror} mirror
02:00 < zor0> Getting current WebGUI version:         Failed! Continuing without it.
02:00 < zor0> Which version do you want to install? [500 Can't connect to update.webgui.org:80 (Bad hostname 'update.webgui.org')] 
02:00 < zor0> is that down? I can't ping it
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02:01 < Radix-wrk> looks like it :(
02:01 <@preaction-m> more likely it's the DNS that's having a problem, i'm trying to restore this system right now
02:01 < Radix-wrk> zor0 - no, everything in /data should not be owned by root
02:01 < Radix-wrk> PING frozen.plainblack.com (207.44.136.25)
02:01 < Radix-wrk> 52 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 50994ms
02:02 <@preaction-m> frozen is dead now too? 
02:02 < Radix-wrk> looks like it
02:02 < Radix-wrk> update.webgui.org resolves to frozen
02:04 < Radix-wrk> looks like today might not be the best time to install from the wre (unless you download the webgui manually from sf and use local)
02:06 <@preaction-m> i've been told to fix the DNS first, so give me 30 minutes
02:06 < Radix-wrk> in the meantime.. http://www.overclockers.com.au/image.php?pic=images/newspics/rainbow.jpg
02:08 <@preaction-m> try now plz?
02:09 < zor0> I already got it off sourceforge, I'm doing the local install
02:09 < Radix-wrk> frozen still doesn't respond
02:09 <@preaction-m> wtf...
02:09 < Radix-wrk> I can't ping it, and can't ftp to it
02:10 <@preaction-m> it's responding to ssh though... wtf
02:10 < perlm> This may be a really stupid question, but how would I go about editing the file this points at?  <link href="^/;style3/css03.css"
02:11 <@preaction-m> perlm: search through your asset tree for "style3", it should be under there
02:11 <@preaction-m> Radix-wrk: update.webgui.org is up now though
02:11 <@preaction-m> frozen just doesn't seem to respond to pings, might be a firewall issue
02:12 < Radix-wrk> okey.. it is via http
02:12 < Radix-wrk> silly me thought it responded via ftp
02:12 <@preaction-m> at least THAT backup went smoothly...
02:13 < zor0> W00000t!!!! it worketh!
02:13 < Radix-wrk> cool :)
02:13 < Radix-wrk> congrats zor0
02:13 <@preaction-m> someone should go to the community wiki and make sure that the installing WRE says to use root
02:13 < Radix-wrk> there's a wiki? :)
02:13 < zor0> heh, yeah...
02:14 < Radix-wrk> ooh.. there is now too
02:14 <@preaction-m> http://www.plainblack.com/support/community-wiki
02:15 < Radix-wrk> personally.. I think it's kinda obvious myself - I mean all of the shell prompts in that document are: "[root@localhost root]#"
02:16 < Radix-wrk> it also says as a prerequisite that you need root access to your server
02:20 <@preaction-m> #WebGUI WebGUI (stable 7.2.3 | beta 7.3.0) | WRE (0.7.2) | Use the Wiki: http://plainblack.com/support/community-wiki | Questions? Ask and wait patiently | Watch for migrant dork herds
02:20 -!- preaction-m changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI (stable 7.2.3 | beta 7.3.0) | WRE (0.7.2) | Use the Wiki:
02:20 <@preaction-m>                      http://plainblack.com/support/community-wiki | Questions? Ask and wait patiently | Watch for 
02:20 <@preaction-m> HATE...
02:21 <@preaction-m> this is what I get for using irssi through ssh from mac os x...
02:23 <@preaction-m> and it seems that plainblack.com doesn't have the Redirect asset/wobject/whatever that every other WebGUI site i've seen has...
02:24 -!- preaction-m changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI (stable 7.2.3 | beta 7.3.0) | WRE (0.7.2) | Use the Wiki: http://plainblack.com/support/community-wiki | Questions? Ask and wait patiently | Watch for migrant dork herds
02:24 < Radix-wrk> Hmm.. the wiki works differently in IE7 than it does in firefox
02:25 <@preaction-m> not surprised...
02:25 < Radix-wrk> works fine in IE7
02:26 < Radix-wrk> but in firefox 2.0, it doesn't the most popular and recent changes sections as columns - and if I click on a link it reformats the page and compresses the text somewhat, but doesn't follow the link until I press it again
02:27 <@preaction-m> that's a bug
02:27 <@preaction-m> i had that same thing happen, i thought i just wasn't doing something right
02:27 < Radix-wrk> yeah.. it's definitely a bug
02:27 <@preaction-m> and i've got 90 minutes until big Donorware upgrade... have to eat sometime in there...
02:28 < Radix-wrk> hehe.. go eat man :)
02:28 <@preaction-m> www.cmsmatrix.org is still down, but the rest of Cold is back up
02:28 <@preaction-m> for some weird reason a whole bunch of Threads have no Posts...
02:29 <@preaction-m> and if I do a subselect to figure out which ones, i'll basically crash the box
02:29 < Radix-wrk> yikes
02:29 <@preaction-m> so i have to continually test and delete, test and delete
02:30 <@preaction-m> ... wait a minute... why are there 2067 Threads but only 1500 some Posts?
02:30 < perlm> some of the Posts are multi-threaded
02:31 < perlm> ba-da-ding.  Thank you folks, I'll be here all week.
02:31  * preaction-m throws tomatoes
02:31 < perlm> :D
02:31 < Radix-wrk> OT: Professional Hosting Services - http://www.overclockers.com.au/pic.php?pic=images/newspics/Hosting.jpg
02:32 <@preaction-m> horrors of hosting: true stories.
02:37 < Radix-wrk> I'm sure there's a few places around who offer exactly that kind of service :)
02:39 < perlm> preaction-m: I've looked at the assets and I can't find where I would change the page templates to have the default point at a different icon for the page header.
02:41 < perlm> oh......when I looked at the Macro it became clear.
02:43 < Radix-wrk> the ^/; macro just adds http://mysite.com/ to the url
02:44 < Radix-wrk> actually.. I don't even think it adds that.. just / or /index.pl? actually
02:44 < Radix-wrk> which was the old way of doing webgui pages in the 5.x versions
02:45 < perlm> it is like the magical invisible macro
02:45 < Radix-wrk> I removed it for all of my css personally.
02:46 < perlm> The style wizard rules......I won't have to edit any CSS at all.  <Best Pricess Bride Voice>Truuuuuuue  Woooooooove</>
02:46 < Radix-wrk> heh
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08:18 <@preaction-m> four hours later and I return a failure... Stupid old WebGUI not upgrading properly...
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02:01 < perlm> When a new version of WebGUI is released, I wonder how many downloads it gets.
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02:06 < perlm> Should Spectre be ran as root?
02:25 <@preaction-m> perlm: it shouldn't need to be
02:26 < Radix-wrk> as long as it has access to the webgui directory
02:27 < Radix-wrk> webgui itself (with the wre anyway) runs as nobody generally
02:28 -!- Radix-wrk changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI (stable 7.2.3 | beta 7.3.1) | WRE (0.7.2) | Use the Wiki: http://plainblack.com/support/community-wiki | Questions? Ask and wait patiently | Watch for migrant dork herds
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02:56 < perlm> Sweet, thanks.
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06:15 <@preaction-m> anyone else here get the WRE to compile for OS X for Intel Macs?
06:25 < Radix-wrk> Don't use os x myself.
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06:28  * PedersenMJ waves. I've been pondering purchasing access to "WebGUI Done Right", but there is one item that is crucial for me, and I haven't seen reference to it being in there: Does WDR have docs/videos showing how to reskin/retheme webgui? I want to do my own design for it.
06:29 < Radix-wrk> hiya
06:29 < PedersenMJ> Hiya.
06:30 < PedersenMJ> Sorry if I seemed rude with how I asked the question, but many chans I've been to recently have requested that questions be asked just like that.
06:31 <@preaction-m> that's how it's done on freenode usually
06:31 < Radix-wrk> WebGUI Done Right has a section for creating your own templates and "themes" - though ultimately it's only a guide - there are soooo many ways of doing templates that there is no 'right' way of doing them.
06:31 < PedersenMJ> That's okay. I just haven't been able to grok making my own "theme", and need some pointers as to processes I can follow at all.
06:32 < Radix-wrk> The main thing is learning the core template variables
06:32 < Radix-wrk> And how the different templates work together to create the whole
06:32 < Radix-wrk> Once you learn how those work - you can go create your basic css and layout in dreamweaver or frontpage or any other html editor of your choice really
06:33 < PedersenMJ> That, right there, would be the one question I would need to answer then: Does WDR discuss those? I'm not doing it for work, but rather for me, and $125 out of my pocket is kind of steep when I'm not certain it has what I need most.
06:33 < Radix-wrk> Have you checked out the wiki btw?
06:34 < PedersenMJ> Not really, no. I hate to admit it, but I just found the wiki a few minutes ago (at least, just found *a* wiki, over on webguidev).
06:34 < Radix-wrk> Actually.. the wiki is still very light on UI stuff
06:34 < Radix-wrk> I just looked myself
06:35 <@preaction-m> the wiki is very light period... it was just released the other day :p
06:35 < Radix-wrk> There was a great presentation on how to create a site theme given at the WUC this year
06:35 < Radix-wrk> I was hoping the content from that presentation was up there
06:36 < PedersenMJ> See, I don't *mind* spending the $125, just so long as those pieces are in WDR. The money is not, itself, the problem. Rather, the lack of certainty about what is actually *in* it.
06:36 < Radix-wrk> Well.. the WDR will give you a good starting point - there's a page at http://www.plainblack.com/builders/how-to-build-a-style that will get you started and explains the basics
06:37 < Radix-wrk> Actually.. it's been fleshed out since I last looked.. and looks like the content from the WUC talk - so it'll get you going pretty well
06:38 < PedersenMJ> Ah, thanks. I haven't bought the access yet, but now that I know it's there, I'll be buying it this week (maybe tonight, but doubtful, it's kinda late, and I'd prefer to buy it right when I can start using it).
06:38 < Radix-wrk> Glad I could help
06:39 < PedersenMJ> BTW, do you happen to work for plainblack?
06:39 < Radix-wrk> not me
06:39 < Radix-wrk> preaction does
06:39 < Radix-wrk> he's the only one here atm that does though
06:39 <@preaction-m> they can barely handle me, what do you think they'd do with you? ;)
06:40 < Radix-wrk> I'm the webgui lead on my company's site - and idle here most days in the hope of picking up a bit of knowledge or titbit I can use sometime :)
06:40 <@preaction-m> of course, i'm just a kid compared to most of the people i've been meeting these days
06:40 < PedersenMJ> That's okay. preaction, a suggestion for the website? Don't know if it would be well received, or would actually help, but it would have made me buy access a few months ago. A publicly accessible table of contents for what's in WDR would be a very nice thing.
06:41 <@preaction-m> it's a good idea, another one of those things that i'm surprised hasn't been implemented already
06:41 < Radix-wrk> Good idea actually :)
06:41 <@preaction-m> i'll run it by the big-wigs and see if they'll get our tech writer to do it
06:42 < PedersenMJ> Cool. Glad I can give that idea out :)
06:42 < Radix-wrk> Feel free to stick around - we're always here if you need any more help
06:42 <@preaction-m> sometimes even more PB people come in
06:42 <@preaction-m> er... person... er... roy...
06:43 < Radix-wrk> yeah.. like snapcount..
06:43 < PedersenMJ> It's the one thing that held me back, as I said (too many times, so will stop saying it now). In case they're curious, tell them to watch for "Michael J. Pedersen" coming in. Like I said, I won't buy it tonight, but will be surprised if I don't buy it tomorrow now.
06:43 < Radix-wrk> though I have seen JT here once - even got to talk to him for a good hour
06:43 <@preaction-m> and he didn't get tempermental? he hates IRC
06:43 < Radix-wrk> hehe
06:43 <@preaction-m> he's got problems dealing w/ people dumber than him, which unfortunately is a great many people
06:44 <@preaction-m> the lucky barstad
06:44 < PedersenMJ> I try not to fit into that category, but when it comes to WebGUI, I'd be very much dumber than him (or most anybody else).
06:44 < Radix-wrk> Was part of the community feedback sessions prior to WG 7 released.  He held one session late at night (for us aussies and people in our timezone) - and I happened to be the only one on the channel then
06:45 < Radix-wrk> got to air lots of problems, questions, etc with him then - was perfect timing for us too as we were headlong into WG dev
06:45 <@preaction-m> word
06:46 < PedersenMJ> One thing I wish I could see done is an easier time installing everything on Debian. I've not used RH for a while now, and prefer to avoid it. Ah well, shouldn't complain too much. The setup *does* get done, just is not as easy as I'd like :)
06:46 < Radix-wrk> I think he kept on hoping someone else would come along and ask questions before the time went ;)
06:47 < Radix-wrk> PedersenMJ, yeah.. we ended up switching to the WRE on CentOS 4.3 simply because of the ease of install
06:47 < Radix-wrk> Every other system here I have is debian
06:47 <@preaction-m> PedersenMJ: the source install should compile fine, if you apt-get install build-essential
06:47 < Radix-wrk> I tried managing it through apt-get and using a stable/testing mix, but it got to me after a while
06:47 < PedersenMJ> BTW, please call me either Mike or Ped or Pedersen. I couldn't use my regular handles, as somebody else uses them, but really don't go by this too much.
06:48 <@preaction-m> PedersenMJ: i'm using tab-completion, and usually IRC clients highlight your nickname :p
06:48 < PedersenMJ> Actually, preaction, what always gets to me is all of the extra Perl modules, not all of which are listed as requirements. It takes a good couple of hours to go through the whole list.
06:48 < Radix-wrk> I actually had some wierdo issues with navigations dissappearing that drove me crazy until I worked out it was some perl library that debian had grabbed that was different from what PB and everyone else was using that caused it.
06:48 < PedersenMJ> Fair enough. I won't make you shorten it. If you had to type it all, though, then you've got an option.
06:49 < Radix-wrk> I decided if PB recommended the WRE then we'd start using it, and it's been pretty good since
06:49 <@preaction-m> Radix-wrk: that is weird... another reason I want the WRE to have some faster development... snapcount has some excellent ideas that need implementation
06:50 <@preaction-m> and i've got a backup/restore utility i need to write, so what happened last night never happens again
06:50 < Radix-wrk> Yeah.. it'd be great if the WRE matured a bit
06:50 < PedersenMJ> For me, it's not a hugely viable option, though, as I have a single web server, and need to have other stuff on the same server for now.
06:51 <@preaction-m> the WRE's MySQL does not play nice with others, but that's MySQL's fault
06:51 <@preaction-m> the next version of the WRE should have a new setup script that lets you pick and choose what to install/setup
06:51 <@preaction-m> 0.8 i believe
06:51 < Radix-wrk> yeah, know what you mean PedersenMJ.. I kinda faked that by using different hostnames, ports, and our alternate ip for when we really got stuck.
06:52 < Radix-wrk> port forwarding as well of course
06:52 < PedersenMJ> Well, for now, it's working, so I'm not going to complain a lot. Someday, maybe, I'll take the time to work out an improved (in my mind, anyway) setup script. Of course, that means getting some extra .deb's into Debian, which is problematic in and of itself.
06:56 < PedersenMJ> Or.... Hmmm, idea. Have to add it to my list. Might do a webgui repository, so that it would become possible to do "apt-get install webgui", and get the install done.
06:56 < Radix-wrk> Someone (I have no idea who) created some debian deb's for webgui a while back - http://deb.cyberdiscordia.org/
06:56 < Radix-wrk> they're a little dated now tho
06:56 <@preaction-m> it is just me, or has the community seemed to have died a little?
06:57 < Radix-wrk> It's never really built up much unfortunately
06:57 < Radix-wrk> the big gap (2 years) between 5.5.8 and 7.0 didn't help as everything was in chaos during that upgrade
06:57 < PedersenMJ> Never looked into the community, myself. But finding out about webgui isn't exactly easy to do.
06:58 < Radix-wrk> Everyone's still getting used to 7.0 I suspect
06:58 < Radix-wrk> IRC is slowly getting bigger I'm glad to say
06:58 <@preaction-m> probably. i've been doing a lot (a lot) of 6.2-7.x upgrades recently
06:58 < Radix-wrk> It used to be that me and crythias were the only ones here for a while
07:00 < Radix-wrk> the biggest issue with webgui is that it's changing so fast still
07:01 < Radix-wrk> Which is great in some ways.. but annoying in others
07:02 < PedersenMJ> That's not just my imagination then! Good!
07:02 <@preaction-m> i'd like to see a better roadmap, with future API changes clearly marked on a map. 8.x breaks This This and This
07:02 < PedersenMJ> It had always seemed like I could check the webpage once every 4-6 weeks and get a new stable release.
07:03 < Radix-wrk> I'd like to see a more reliable stable release
07:04 < PedersenMJ> What issues have you seen with the stable releases that make you say that?
07:04 <@preaction-m> a lot of stability could be gained at the expense of making API changes
07:04 <@preaction-m> if i made the new error handler I want to, a lot more error messages could be made, and a lot more stability could be achieved
07:05 < Radix-wrk> Atm there's a release every week
07:05 < Radix-wrk> regardless of whether it's a beta or a stable release
07:05 <@preaction-m> mostly bugfix releases
07:05 < Radix-wrk> I'm using 7.0.8 stable atm
07:05 < PedersenMJ> I have no problem with a release every week, personally. After all, new betas could come out that often, easily.
07:06 < Radix-wrk> I'd love to get some of the bugfixes, but there's been three major updates since then - and each one of them has a lot of changes and gotchas, so it's not trivial
07:07 <@preaction-m> the upgrades are still doing things nicely. except for the minor caveat about 7.2.0
07:07 < Radix-wrk> It'd be nicer if the stable releases stuck around for a while.. and were kept uptodate with bugfixes, but no new features.
07:10 < Radix-wrk> I'd like all of the bugfixes up to 7.3.1 - but none of the new features (and possible new bugs as a consequence)
07:12 < Radix-wrk> I'm a software developer myself I might add - we work towards two major releases a year.  Webgui has been aiming at one a month of late :)
07:15 <@preaction-m> there's a point there... but there's so much legacy code to go through and make Work...
07:16 <@preaction-m> it would be nice to branch and only backport bugfixes for a span of at least three months
07:17 < PedersenMJ> anyway... Must be rude again, and get going. After midnight here, and need to get up in the morning (on time, for a change).
07:17 < PedersenMJ> Will chat later.
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07:33 <@preaction-m> i think i figured out the issues. intel macs don't like the OpenSSL, MySQL, or ImageMagick that's included with the WRE...
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08:32 < Radix-wrk> Yeah, sorry for dumping that on you preaction - you don't deserve it.  Guess I needed to get that out of my system tho - your question set me off! ;)
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15:33 < vidar_> does the search find content that the user does not have permission to access?
15:36 < ckotil> no
15:36 < ckotil> it hides it
16:11 < Radix__> yeah.. only shows the content in the search that the user has access to
16:29 < vidar_> that is what I figured, but some clients thought it was not possible
16:30 < vidar_> btw
16:30 < vidar_> there was some talk about a style generator
16:30 < vidar_> do you know what I mean}
16:35 < Radix__> yeah, there's a style generator - does basic layouts
16:36 < vidar_> somehow I have missed hthat one
16:36 < Radix__> it's a sidebar option if you edit a style I recall
16:36 < vidar_> were is it?
16:37 < vidar_> ok
16:37 < Radix__> Go edit a style, then on the left you'll see Style Wizard
16:37 < Radix__> It's very basic though - it then gives you two different styles to pick from
16:38 < Radix__> lets you pick a logo, site name, and the colours
16:39 < Radix__> Quick way to get started
16:39 < Radix__> but not much flexibility :)
16:40 < Radix__> you need to learn css/html and the basic html tags to be able to do more :)
16:41 < vidar_> ahh
16:41 < vidar_> I was hoping it was not for the complete site
16:41 < vidar_> I was hoping it was to divide the content space into regions
16:43 < vidar_> for the less skilled people here
16:47 < Radix__> fraid not :(
16:47 < Radix__> grab dreamweaver or frontpage and do a mock up in that..
16:47 < Radix__> it's not hard once you've done that to put it into webgui
16:48 < vidar_> I know
16:48 < vidar_> I have quite a lot of css/html exp
16:49 < Radix__> would be nicer for the newbies I agree
16:49 < Radix__> ajax driven wizard would be awesome
16:49 < vidar_> :)
16:49 < vidar_> yeah
17:19 < xdanger> Something like this would be nice:  http://blog.davglass.com/files/yui/grids/
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17:23 < Radix__> that would be perfect
17:24 < Radix__> just need to select where the navigation would go and insert the template tags and it'd be done
17:25 < Radix__> it's done with the YUI as well.. so should be simple to put into webgui surely
17:28 < xdanger> there is the sidepanel for navigation...
17:29 < xdanger> but thre should be more options than "left/right" and size...
17:29 < xdanger> like top,bottom, etc..
17:52 < vidar_> can it only have 2 cols?
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18:20 < vidar_> this is good stuff
18:20 < vidar_> would like to see the YUI calendar in webgui
18:20 < vidar_> ;>
18:31 < ckotil> that is pretty badass. the css grid builder
18:31 < ckotil> i should study that. ive been trying to build my sites without the use of tables. only divs, but its really hard.
18:32 < vidar_> the css grid is the most difficult thing to build modern website imo
18:32 < ckotil> tables just scale so easily
18:32 < vidar_> (from a photoshop file)
18:32 < ckotil> ya, i cut up the file the designer has been working on into chunks and throw it in a well laid out table
18:33 < vidar_> hehe
18:34 < vidar_> the problem is that designers that only know photoshop have no idea of how hard it can be to implement their design perfecly without tables
18:35 < ckotil> ya, they just know that it can be done using css
18:35 < ckotil> whenever i try to make a site without using tables, just divs and css they never fucking line up
18:36 < ckotil> so fuckem
18:36 < vidar_> dont understand why designers dont do css themselves
18:36 < ckotil> one more thing to learn
18:36 < vidar_> one more reason to fire them
18:36 < ckotil> they're content in knowing their adobe apps
18:37 < vidar_> I would rather pick up a kid that designs counterstrike websites rather than pro photoshoper
18:37 < ckotil> nah, cant fire thtem.
18:37 < vidar_> because the kids can do both
18:37 < ckotil> im certainly not going to design the site
18:38 < ckotil> heh
18:38 < vidar_> programmer spending his time in css is bad management
18:38 < ckotil> im no programmer
18:38 < ckotil> i dabble
18:38 < ckotil> my title is web developer
18:39 < vidar_> ahh
18:41 < vidar_> have never met one of those
18:42 < vidar_> so you use dw or similar program do to your job?
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19:13 < ckotil> yeah, for the most part.
19:13 < ckotil> but not entirely
19:14 < vidar_> I dont know how to use any of those
19:14 < ckotil> im also handy with a text editor
19:14 < ckotil> just point n click
19:14 < ckotil> ;]
19:14 < vidar_> not really good using the mouse if you know what I mean :>
19:48 <@preaction-m> i've never met a WYSIWYG program that does readable markup/css
19:52 < perlm> Dreamweaver does the best of all the WYSIWYG's I've seen and it is horrible.  css must be hand coded to make sense.
20:02 < ckotil> i spoke with a graphic designer the other night and he was hyping up adobe go live.
20:02 < ckotil> i tried it out. i didnt like it
20:03 <@preaction-m> but that's a designer. he probably doesn't understand a single word of CSS "code"
20:49 < vidar_> he should
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22:53 < ckotil> ya
22:53 < ckotil> these designers can setup a flash web page. thats about it
22:53 < ckotil> recent grads from indiana university bachelor of fine arts program.
22:53 <@preaction-m> so, useless
22:54 < ckotil> as web developers, yes
22:54 <@preaction-m> as functional members of society :p
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04:15 < xdanger> snapcount: are you non-idle?
04:16 < xdanger> Was just wondering about the new calendar... Is there going to be some sort of approval prosess for the events?
04:16 < xdanger> so that I could let my users input events and I could approve or reject them...
04:17 <@snapcount> preaction-m would know
04:17 <@snapcount> I'm not familiar with the original spec
04:18 < xdanger> preaction-m: so?-)
04:18 <@preaction> that's an RFE. currently the workflow activity that commits the events is hard-coded to "Commit without approval", but it could be changed once a config value is created for it
04:20 < xdanger> doesn't sound like much of work =)
04:20 <@preaction> it wouldn't be, no. but for the problem of the recurring events: you'd have to go in and approve each occurrence of a recurring event
04:20 <@preaction> or... the commit process would have to do it for you
04:21 < xdanger> can't you but them under the same versiontag?
04:21 <@preaction> that, and i'd like for the commit process to actually generate those occurrences, rather than having the user wait forever
04:21 <@preaction> it'd probably work, sure
04:22 <@preaction> atm i'm trying to get the WRE working on this intel mac, so JT stops yelling that he bought me a 3000 computer that I don't do dev work on
04:22 < xdanger> 8)
04:23 <@preaction> i've broken down, i'm installing ubuntu on it :p
04:23 < Radix-wrk> hehe
04:23 < xdanger> btw. is there a way to tell spectre to use some other host than the config option sitename?
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04:24 <@preaction> not that i know of
04:26 < xdanger> so i'll just have to tweak /etc/hosts for every site... nice
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09:10 < Radix-wrk> snapcount's in hiding ;)
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00:54 < perlm> Almost everything I know about POE I learned from SPECTRE
00:55 < perlm> WebGUI is the gift that keeps on giving.
00:59 <+crythias> heh
00:59 <+crythias> now we need something called Edgar ... and raven
01:00 <+crythias> and usher
01:00 <+crythias> 6.2.11 - "The Pit" ... 7.x "The Pendulum"
01:20 <@preaction-m> 8.x - The Beating of His Hideous Heart?
01:44 <+crythias> The Cask
02:07 < snapcount> we should come up with a codename for 8.x
02:08 < snapcount> rabid monkey
02:08 < snapcount> the cleaner
02:08 < snapcount> longhorn
02:08 < snapcount> oh wait
02:08 < snapcount> =)
02:18 < perlm> I'm writing an application which is targetted at the desktop, but I wonder if it is presumptious of me to think users could install Apache and use WebGUI as the front end?
02:39 <@preaction> there is the WRE
02:39 <@preaction> but probably presumptuous
02:39 <@preaction> why not a web service? some sort of web-based interface to a program that stores things on the client's computer
02:54 <+crythias> It's presumptuous to assume people can install WebGUI.
02:59 < Radix__> I dunno.. if you use the windows wre and tweak it to use different port addresses from the norm - you'd probably have a pretty good chance of it working
03:00 < Radix__> the old webgui unzip n run actually worked surprisingly well I found.. unless something was already using port 80 (like IIS)
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04:58 < Radix__> hello likemick
04:58 < likemick> hi there
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06:47  * PedersenMJ waves.
06:48 < PedersenMJ> I've got an idea for something fairly large to plugin to webgui, but don't know if this would be a bad one. I've got a squid proxy at work, and am thinking that writing up a plugin for webgui which can write that config file might be a good thing.
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--- Log closed Sat Dec 16 10:19:12 2006
--- Log opened Sun Dec 17 20:18:16 2006
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22:02 < ckotil> i cant install the wre. i run sh build.sh as root.
22:02 < ckotil> Stop in /usr/data/wrebuild/source/utils/lftp-3.3.4.
22:02 < ckotil> WRE ERROR: lftp make did not complete successfully.
22:02 < ckotil> fails at lftp
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00:00 <+perlDreamer> Hey, all
00:00 <+perlDreamer> I'm fixing WebGUI bugs today.
00:01 <+perlDreamer> I'm working on a Wiki bug in particular right now, and am stuck using an old browser here at work.
00:01 <+perlDreamer> Is anyone willing to do a little testing for me?
00:01 <+perlDreamer> You would need to have a SVN copy of wG running.
00:09 < ckotil> im running 7.3.1
00:10 <+perlDreamer> That would work, but having a copy of 7.3.2 would be better.
00:10 < ckotil> and have the wiki on the front page
00:10 <@preaction-m> perlDreamer: let me update SVN, restart wG, and see what's up
00:10 < ckotil> http://newt.grnoc.iu.edu/webgui
00:10 <+perlDreamer> ckotil: You okay doing manual patches?
00:10 < ckotil> sure/
00:11 < ckotil> ive done them in the past. just haev to go in order.
00:11 < ckotil> in teh past (before i knew about upgrade.pm --doit
00:11 <+perlDreamer> The bug I'm working on has to do with Wiki page history.  So first, please create some wiki page and then make 3 consecutive edits to it.
00:11 <+perlDreamer> this upgrade will be _much_ more manual than that.  This is text editor work
00:12 < ckotil> o
00:12 <@preaction-m> perlDreamer: run an svn diff?
00:12 < ckotil> never done it.
00:12 < ckotil> sorry
00:12 <+perlDreamer> svn diff would work as long as I'm diffing against 7.3.1
00:13 <+perlDreamer> preaction-m: this might be better to do with you since you're also a wG hacker.  You got time?
00:13 <@preaction-m> you should be able to pass a -r to diff, iirc
00:13 <@preaction-m> that's the thing, i've got an emergency install, if this person gets my login working
00:13 <@preaction-m> might have a few minutes
00:13 < ckotil> in that case. im heading home. good luck
00:13 <+perlDreamer> thanks for the offer, ckotil
00:14 <+perlDreamer> Doug, try this:
00:14 <+perlDreamer> Go into lib/WebGUI/Asset/WikiPage.pm
00:14 <+perlDreamer> jump to  line 316
00:15 <+perlDreamer> change all selfs into revisions so that they refer to revisions of the page rather than the current page.
00:15 <+perlDreamer> i.e. date => $date->epochToHuman($revision->get("revisionDate"))
00:15 <@preaction-m> k, give me a moment
00:16 <+perlDreamer> I'm like 99.995% positive this is right, but I really don't like checking in untested code
00:16 <+perlDreamer> due to hard experience
00:16 <@preaction-m> you don't have a web-facing dev server?
00:17 <+perlDreamer> Oh, I have a dev server, but a really old browser that doesn't work well with Ajax or YUI
00:17 <+perlDreamer> Mozilla 1.4
00:17 <@preaction-m> web-facing, so I could see it
00:17 <+perlDreamer> oh, no
00:17 <+perlDreamer> not here at $dayJob
00:17 <+perlDreamer> During the day I design chips for cell phone batteries
00:18 <+perlDreamer> During the night I become perlDreamer, hack of wG tests, bugs and documentation
00:18 <@preaction-m> i've been asking JT to get one... demo only works for latest release. i'd like a "test" that would use latest SVN, updated at the click of a button
00:18 <@preaction-m> he keeps telling me it's pointless
00:18 <@preaction-m> maybe i'll install a reverse proxy and use a semi-dormant computer i have for it
00:18 <+perlDreamer> It would require a lot of manual intervention.  You'd want to lock it while 1 dev is using it.
00:19 <+perlDreamer> otherwise I could reset it while you're trying to use it and vice versa
00:19 <@preaction-m> it would just update the source, using Apache2::Reload so it shouldn't mess things up (unless someone goes all ape-shit on it)
00:19 <@preaction-m> but i suppose I could make it lockable, give certain users passwords, etc...
00:20 <@preaction-m> another thing on my list after better Error handling and a full backup/recovery suite...
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00:20 <+perlDreamer> and documenting the Calendar and Event Assets? :)
00:20 <@preaction-m> pfft. low on the list. make them use the source :p
00:21 <@preaction-m> but i do need to do some rewriting to the API
00:24 <@preaction-m> altered, testing
00:24 <+perlDreamer> Just create a Wiki page, make 2-3 page edits, then look at the page history.
00:25 <+perlDreamer> In the original bug, all icons should have URLs that point to the same revision (current)
00:25 <+perlDreamer> If the bug is fixed,all URLs will be different.
00:25 <+perlDreamer> Dates will be affected the same way (with bug, all same (current), w/o fix, different and correct)
00:27 <@preaction-m> looks like i had a failed upgrade... must fix
00:29 <+perlDreamer> brb
00:33 <+perlDreamer> back
00:33 <@preaction-m> um... where can I add a wikipage? i think things have gotten messed up a little bit
00:34 <+perlDreamer> You add wikipages on the search interface
00:34 <@preaction-m> not seeing a link there
00:34 <@preaction-m> i'm upgrading to 7.3.2
00:39 <@preaction-m> and for some reason Apache2::Reload isn't working appropriately
00:40 <@preaction-m> your fix works
00:44 <+perlDreamer> sweet!
00:44 <+perlDreamer> Thanks, Doug
00:44 <@preaction-m> no problem
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01:47 < perlm> WebGUI's search passed the XSS "><SCRIPT>alert('XSS%20Testing')</SCRIPT> attack
01:47 < perlm> bravo
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06:52 < Radix-wrk> Hmm.. how do you import a package into webgui these days?  I want to import the phpbb skin, but can't figure out where to do so
06:54 < Radix-wrk> And while I'm asking questions.. how do you create a new page in the webgui wiki?
06:54 < Radix-wrk> the community wiki I mean
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06:57 < davo> Radix r u there?
06:58 < davo> Jesse?
07:00 < davo> i just read your reply to my post ("How to offer free blogs to users?")
07:00 < davo> thanks for answer
07:01 < davo> i want to talk you about ideas in order to build some perl code to achive this goal...
07:03 -!- davo is now known as vcb
07:06 < vcb> my name is David.. by the way...
07:20 < Radix-wrk> hiya
07:20 < vcb> hi
07:21 < vcb> thanks for post
07:21 < Radix-wrk> I'm no expert when it comes to using the API - but I've scratched the surface of it a bit, so got a feel for how powerful it is :)
07:22 < vcb> did you write any code for webgui yet?
07:23 < Radix-wrk> nothing in webgui no, just a small script to create users and set them up that we use in the office here.
07:23 < vcb> i see..
07:24 < Radix-wrk> You can do prettymuch anything with the WebGUI API if you put your mind to it - and it's pretty well documented (webguidev.com)
07:24 < vcb> i was thinking about your suggest...
07:25 < Radix-wrk> I'd try it manually to start with.. add a user, add a group, make the user belong to the group, then add a blog page, and set permissions for the page so that members of that group have edit permissions
07:25 < vcb> cool
07:26 < Radix-wrk> Once you're happy with the process - you could look at automating it a bit using the API
07:26 < vcb> what about the performance handling many groups (one for each user)? i hope to host about 50,000 users 
07:26 < Radix-wrk> maybe when the user signs up they can click on a button which sets them up with their own blog page (and creates the group, page and permissions automatically)
07:27 < Radix-wrk> now that's something I've no idea on really
07:28 < vcb> you think webgui can handle several groups?
07:28 < Radix-wrk> We have about 4000 users here, but they don't have edit privileges - I'm sure the edit side of things will add more load than a browsing user
07:28 < Radix-wrk> All depends what kind of server you have too :)
07:29 < Radix-wrk> you can cluster mysql servers for example.. and if you're using the wre you'll get big performance boost from the modproxy setup
07:29 < vcb> mm.. by the way.. it's better to use WRE over manually install?
07:30 < Radix-wrk> the WRE is the recommended way to install webgui
07:30 < vcb> even if i have a dedicated proxy in front of webgui host?
07:31 < Radix-wrk> it has everything you need built in, it's optimised and far easier to set up than using the webgui source
07:31 < Radix-wrk> that said.. if you have it set up already, and you're confident with apache/mysql tweaking - you'll probably do better on your own :)
07:32 < vcb> jeje.. ok
07:32 < Radix-wrk> the only thing I've ever found is that sometimes the perl modules that ship with the WRE are better tested than the ones you get with distros
07:32 < vcb> yes WRE should be more stable
07:33 < Radix-wrk> I had a wierd nav bug that bugged me for ages before I found out it was a bug in some perl module I was using
07:33 < vcb> but i always prefer to be a tester
07:33 < vcb> what module?
07:33 < vcb> which one>
07:33 < Radix-wrk> I don't know
07:33 < vcb> ;)
07:34 < Radix-wrk> I ditched debian and switched to the WRE around that time :)
07:35 < vcb> I'm looking forward to learn how API works...
07:38 < Radix-wrk> you know perl I hope? :)
07:41 < Radix-wrk> for my script I used the importUser.pl script that came with webgui as the base.. just rewrote it to accept some parameters and created the user accounts that way.  You'd need to use a different example, but maybe there's something in the sbin that could give you a few pointers.
07:41 < vcb> yes.. love perl
07:42 < Radix-wrk> cool
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07:42 < Radix-wrk> You'll have a ball then.  I had to learn perl as I went ;)
07:43 < vcb> i see..
07:45 < vcb> do you think there is a chance of hearing some ideas from core developers about this feature?
07:46 < Radix-wrk> You can always talk to PB directly about it sure.  That's where the PB support contract comes in handy - you can bounce things off them and ask for help if you get stuck (or run into a problem)
07:47 < vcb> i see
07:47 < Radix-wrk> preaction on here works for PB (though he's a new recruit, so is still learning himself in some ways), and occasionally other developers jump on here too
07:50 < Radix-wrk> http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds/7.3.1-beta/api/ - take a look at the API
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18:11 < fdillon> hey Martin, are you around?
18:11 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
18:12 < fdillon> sweet
18:12 < fdillon> I have a question for you
18:12 <+MrHairgrease> shoot
18:12 < fdillon> give me a minute
18:12 < fdillon> distractions and stuff
18:12 <+MrHairgrease> ok
18:13 < fdillon> do you know anything about the WRE for 6.2.11?
18:13 <+MrHairgrease> no
18:13 < fdillon> alright then
18:13 < fdillon> that's my question
18:14 <+MrHairgrease> I tried to compile the wre for gentoo last weekend
18:14 <+MrHairgrease> it failed
18:14 <+MrHairgrease> but my guess is
18:14 <+MrHairgrease> that it's a problem of the getoo install
18:14 <+MrHairgrease> never used the wre before
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22:57 < camidin> hello! how to mix collaboration system properties with a data for asset (how to allow comments to each entry of data form).
23:40 < vcb> maybe creating a forum dynamicly, using the dataform post ID as the collaboration system url?
--- Day changed Wed Dec 20 2006
00:20 < vcb> is there a way to create content using a macro? for example: ^newContent(Forum, title, /home/aforum, templateid) ??
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01:01 < camidin> thanks vcb.. working on your ideas
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16:36 < ckotil> id like to be able to xfer assets from one gui installation to another.
16:37 < ckotil> WebGUI*
17:04 < ckotil> is ther a find/relpace function?
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22:15 < ckotil> is there a known bug with http proxy that prevents rewritten links from being followed properly? they dont seem to retain the page layout. they just go off on there own. so i lose my template styling
22:28 < ckotil> seems to be in 7.2.1
22:28 < ckotil> guess i must upgrade
22:42 <@preaction-m> ckotil: I thought I fixed that
22:45 < ckotil> yeah in 7.2.3
22:45 < ckotil> im good now thanks
23:09 < ckotil> 7.2.2*
--- Day changed Thu Dec 21 2006
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15:39 < ckotil> preaction-m: http proxy's hide from navigation doesnt do squat.
15:39 < ckotil> Id like for it not to be hidden.
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18:20 <+crythia1> yawn
18:21 <+crythia1> hee
18:21 <+crythia1> someone needs to fix the wiki
18:22 <+crythia1> preaction preaction-m buzz buzz buzz
20:23 <@preaction-m> fix the wiki how?
20:23 <+crythia1> heh
20:23 <+crythia1> it's fixed, now
20:23 <@preaction-m> and odon't mention the Calendar stuff that fell out of scope
20:23 <@preaction-m> thank ckotil
20:23 <+crythia1> it used to say "An internationalization label...."
20:23 <@preaction-m> oh, that crap
20:24 <+crythia1> hee
20:24 <+crythia1> I solved the encryption thing and he didn't like it.
20:24 <@preaction-m> is it PB policy to work devs until they collapse? drake just did :p
20:25 <+crythia1> drake worked a developer or collapsed?
20:25 <@preaction-m> encryption thing? oh.. tikititiktitititi
20:25 <@preaction-m> collapsed
20:25 <+crythia1> bummer.
20:25 <@preaction-m> c'est la vie, frank's going apeshit right now
20:25 <+crythia1> oh?
20:26 <+crythia1> and.. "la vee"
20:26 <@preaction-m> three projects reaching deadline, plus normal operations
20:26 <@preaction-m> and the end-of-year blitz to get people upgraded to 7.x
20:26 <@preaction-m> (because they just HAD to wait until the last minute)
20:27 <@preaction-m> should've told Sparton to frell off... but whatevz
20:27 <@preaction-m> uh... i mean... hi!
20:27  * preaction-m hides
20:28 -!- preaction-m changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI (stable 7.2.3 | beta 7.3.2) | WRE (0.7.2) | Use the Wiki: http://plainblack.com/support/community-wiki | Questions? Ask and wait patiently | Watch for migrant dork herds
20:30 <+crythia1> once again, bug fixes in beta. GRUMBLE!
20:30 <+crythia1> I'm sick of this.
20:30 <+crythia1> I don't care if the next one is stable, I'm tempted to just stop.
20:32 <@preaction-m> the huh now?
20:32 <@preaction-m> i'll be the first to apologize, i haven't been able to get the "bugs" out of the calendar, because i've been on other projects
20:33 <+crythia1> it doesn't do the general populace any good to release bugfixes as part of a beta release
20:33 <@preaction-m> hell, i haven't been able to do any bugfixes, it's all "Do this soap masquerade CGI script" or "Do this alumni project" or "do this instead of bugfixen"
20:34 <+crythia1> Plainblack might as well just link to the nightly build as a "release" and go on with life.
20:34 <@preaction-m> imho, they should stop trying to release every week, unless there's a bugfix. and we should branch for each minor version (and also make a branch for the next major version, so I can toy with breaking API)
20:35 <@preaction-m> or just make a branch for me. WebGUI-doug
20:35 <+crythia1> the main thing that irritates me is that bug fixes, including oh, I don't know... PHISHING ATTACK bug fixes should maybe make it into a STABLE release.
20:36 <@preaction-m> that we had long discussion about, it might've had to break API
20:36 <@preaction-m> imho it wasn't ba bug if you set up apache to filter based on referer
20:36  * crythia1 shrugs
20:37 <@preaction-m> (of course, that does make an extra step from direct-linking to uploads)
20:37 <+crythia1> not my problem. "This fixes all these issues, but don't put it in production..."
20:37 <@preaction-m> some of our devs don't backport fixes correctly
20:37 <@preaction-m> when we branch, at least
20:37 <@preaction-m> currently there is no branch, so no backporting
20:37 <+crythia1> again, backport isn't a thang. 
20:38 <@preaction-m> but if we did branch, we'd always have a stable release, and all bugfixen would make it into a stable release
20:38 <+crythia1> *gasp*
20:39 <+crythia1> and I said in the dev list I don't even care if you make a for-vendor release.
20:39 <+crythia1> er. for-client
20:39 <+crythia1> doesn't make me no nevermind.
20:39 <@preaction-m> when? i need to restart spectre on plainblack.com because it's gunked up again...
20:39 <+crythia1> chad?
20:40 <+crythia1> erm. I mean spectre...
20:40 <@preaction-m> i'm not familiar with that acronym
20:40 <+crythia1> as in ... hanging...
20:41 <@preaction-m> funny thing is JT making a talk about it at Madison.pm, should I go heckle him about the bugs? rofl
20:42 <+crythia1> stoopid search
20:42 < ckotil> chad here
20:42 <+crythia1> heh
20:42 < ckotil> doh!
20:43 <@preaction-m> yyou know what, screw this. i'm setting up an hourly cronjob to restart spectre on frozen...
20:43 < ckotil> luckily i only heard that a handful of times back during those electiions
20:43 < ckotil> i setup a script to restart it 24hrs
20:43 < ckotil> cron + script
20:43 <+crythia1> search is broken
20:43 < ckotil> in what version?
20:43 <+crythia1> current
20:44 <+crythia1> plainblack.com
20:44 <+crythia1> http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/dev/discuss?func=search
20:44 <+crythia1> I put in *my* username
20:44 <+crythia1> why would I see *every* post?
20:45 <+crythia1> even if the post isn't checking username for the search, it does check content.
20:45 <+crythia1> I guarantee I won't show up in 7.3.2 is Released
20:47 <+crythia1> preaction: http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/dev/discuss/svn-branched-for-7.2
20:50 <@preaction-m> i've been pondering a new upgrade system, using diffs and pluggable modules (so one part of the upgrade can fail and decide if the rest of the upgrade should continue)
20:50 <@preaction-m> would also fix the problem of upgrade "steps", as the diffs would be applied per-version
20:51 <+crythia1> IMO, there should be no reason that any upgrade path can't handle the steps.
20:52 <@preaction-m> like the 7.2 step because of a bugfix in the trash function?
20:52 <+crythia1> "For those of you concerned about bug fixes, I'll give you this reassurance at least. No new R&D (or releases) will be done to WebGUI core by Plain Black staff until all the bugs on the bug board are cleared up. The only exception to this rule is for client funded features because they deserve to get their features without waiting for them. In this way there should be far more bugfix releases than normal releases. In addition, this will be the policy going f
20:54 <@preaction-m> we have only been working on client-funded features, though I don't know about the wiki
20:56 <@preaction-m> i'd pipe up, but the thread is old. backporting fixes is as easy as `svn diff > backport.patch; cd Old_WebGUI; patch -p0 < /path/to/backport.patch"
20:56 <+crythia1> mhmm.. 
20:57 <@preaction-m> give me some more time to get stable in this environment, I'm making plans
20:59 <+crythia1> In the market for a laptop? http://www.costcentral.com/proddetail/HP_Compaq_Business_Notebook_nx6325/RB544UTABA/K36949/extended/
21:00 <@preaction-m> nope, JT bought me a MacBook Pro, and gets pissed when I tell him I can't compile the WRE on it. so i've been tying to get a linux kernel to work apporpriately (i always lose at least one necessary piece of hardware, no matter what version kernel)
21:02 <@preaction-m> if it's not wireless internet, it's sound. those seem to be the two features i can't get to cooperate together
21:07 <@preaction-m> ... it's been two hours since i started on the boards... breaktime!
21:18 < ckotil> heres a security question for you guys. Is it ok for me to keep both public and private (group access controlled) files in the same folder asset?
21:18 < ckotil> or should i setup a private folder to contain them
21:21 <@preaction-m> it should be fine, if it isn't fine, that's a bug
21:32 < ckotil> kthx
21:32 < ckotil> i set them up in their own folders just for good practice
21:51 < ckotil> phpbbforum template is busted in 7.2.3
21:52 < ckotil> sonuva bitch. i was gonna wow my coworkers with that.
21:52 < ckotil> says invalid asset where addtopic would be. :/
21:57 < ckotil> and where'd the wiki go?
21:57 < ckotil> oh its in the beta.
21:57 < ckotil> shit
21:58 < ckotil> i just cant win today
22:10 <@preaction-m> amen to that...
22:13 < ckotil> anyone have more than 15megs in their cache?
22:13 <@preaction-m> i've seen gigs of cache before
22:14 < ckotil> killer.
22:14 <@preaction-m> pb.com has hundreds of MBs
22:14 < ckotil> then im not worried abotu scalability at all
22:14 < ckotil> thats great news
22:14 <@preaction-m> 20 minutes to just do an rm -rf on the WebGUICache
22:14 < ckotil> hehe
22:15 <@preaction-m> i'd worry more about processor / disk speed first
22:15 <@preaction-m> the /. effect (how pretentious..)
22:16 < ckotil> word.
22:17 < ckotil> damnit....did the clipboard happen to break lately?
22:17 < ckotil> between 7.2.1 and 7.2.3 ?
22:17 <@preaction-m> not that i'm aware of, did you make sure it was committed before you tried to copy/paste it?
22:17 < ckotil> sorry. wasnt on the right version tag
22:30 < ckotil> im unable to add posts to my forums/message boards.
22:52 < ckotil> im dealing with a bug here.
22:52 < ckotil> i have a collaboration system/forum i setup weeks ago. 
22:52 < ckotil> it still works fine
22:52 < ckotil> but i cant create a new one
22:53 < ckotil> ive even tried copy & pastre
22:56 < ckotil> i almost think its stemming from the fact that i rigged an rss asset before one shipped with webgui. by using a code snipet and navigation asset
23:01 < ckotil> FUCK
23:46 < ckotil> i really hope i didnt screw something up permanantly.
23:46 <@preaction-m> does your rigged RSS asset screw with things in the core?
23:46 < ckotil> like i used to back in the good ole days
23:47 < ckotil> no not at all
23:47 < ckotil> it was jsut a snippet to output the xml
23:47 <@preaction-m> the new RSSfromParent thingy should do what you need it to
23:47 < ckotil> and then a navigatiotn asset to cycle through the threads
23:47 <@preaction-m> are you trying to create a CS with your RSS thingy?
23:47 < ckotil> im sure the rssfrom parent will be fine. its just that right now i can no longer create new threads
23:48 < ckotil> im not concerned with the rss right now
23:48 < ckotil> im just listing that as apossibility for my problem
23:48 <@preaction-m> i'm just trying to verify that it's not your code
23:48 < ckotil> which is when i create a collab system or message board. i cant create new posts
23:48 < ckotil> i didnt touch the code
23:48 <@preaction-m> so we can get to proper diagnosis
23:48  * ckotil nods
23:48 <@preaction-m> did you commit the CS before you tried to make a post?
23:48 < ckotil> ;]
23:49 <@preaction-m> that changed recently
23:49 < ckotil> if thats the case. ill be damned
23:49 < ckotil> ill give it a shot
23:49 <@preaction-m> something about packages containing CSs and Threads, and weird stuff
23:49 < ckotil> id hug you right now if i could
23:49 <@preaction-m> it was a horrible bug, it's probably still a bug, but forcing the CS to be committed seems to fix it
23:50 < ckotil> thanks.
23:50 <@preaction-m> better idea: tell me i'm right about this: http://www.plainblack.com/etcetera/webgui-bashing-at-glaven_org
23:51 <@preaction-m> this person is a donorware employee, so i totally understand all their grievances with WebGUI and JT
23:51 <@preaction-m> but, being honest, Donorware is a bit of a punishment around here. I do it because I'm polite and I seem to handle it better than everyone else
23:52 <@preaction-m> they're about to get a bill from PB for about 5 extra support hours ($1,000) so I don't know how much they'll like me after that
23:52 <@preaction-m> plus whatever i do tonight, probably 3-5 more hours
23:53 < ckotil> this guy is an idiot.
23:53 < ckotil> i like #23 . about multiple sites
23:53 <@preaction-m> i wantd to say that, but i'm staff, so i have to be polite
23:54 < ckotil> i run multiple sites on multiple domains
23:54 < ckotil> i pulled some shit out of my ass. but hey, it works very well
23:54 < ckotil> mod_rewrite
23:54 <@preaction-m> and i'm not up on the ancient versions, so it Might have been a problem back then, but it's definately not now
23:54 < ckotil> #27 wg's config files are a mess..   uhm hello. thats unix
23:54 < ckotil> yeah i joined around 6.9
23:54 <@preaction-m> they're JSON now, they were PlainConfig which was INI-style
23:54 < ckotil> just as 7 was about to come out
23:55 < ckotil> his issues with search have been fixed.
23:55 <@preaction-m> JSON is messier i believe, but they're data structures, which is not INI-friendly
23:55 < ckotil> im gonna reply to the thread
23:56 <@preaction-m> and i didn't add anything about JT, but JT can be an ass sometimes (he's a geek, social graces aren't required learning)
23:56 < ckotil> heh
23:57 < ckotil> I like JT. he's always been straight with me
23:57 <@preaction-m> that's it, he's straight and to the point, not polite, they're mutually exclusive
23:58 <@preaction-m> were i more fragile, i could say he's an ass, but he's also in charge, i'll argue my case with him and sometimes i can even win
23:58 <@preaction-m> if i stand up for myself and my position. he's alpha geek
23:59 <@preaction-m> "The adminstrative overhead is too high.." Donorware has so much crap going on in their system it's unbelievable... Now that they're migrating to the WRE, it's all going to be great
--- Day changed Fri Dec 22 2006
00:00 <@preaction-m> i should get back to work though, if Frank finds out i took an hour to write that, he'll KILL ME
00:01 < ckotil> hehe
00:01 < ckotil> thanks for the help. im out of here. i wrote  a little something to that thread
00:11 <@preaction-m> thanks, have fun
00:13 < xdanger> hehe, the point 1... I run webgui on 4.1 wich comes with debian =D
00:13 < xdanger> and if that's not stable, then mysql isn't ever stable...
00:13 < xdanger> wait.. it isn't =DD
00:13 < xdanger> I hate mysql
00:13 < xdanger> postgresql for teh win!
00:16 <@preaction-m> i hate postgresql, SQLite FTW!
00:16 <@preaction-m> oi could never figure out PG's configuration
00:23 < xdanger> well.. i liked sqlite until I had to use it for a reporting project..
00:25 < xdanger> if you do int/int=int so 5/2=3, you have to cast(x as fload)/y to get the right solution
00:25 < xdanger> PG is hard to configure, I give you that.. put that's small price to pay for a real DB
00:26 < xdanger> we played with the idea of converting webgui to postgresql, but we have better things to do
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--- Log opened Fri Dec 22 02:10:06 2006
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02:50 < Radix__> mornin all
03:10 <@preaction-m> mornin indeed
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07:23 <+crythias> Merry Christmas!
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12:23 < Radix__> Merry Christmas :)
12:24 < Radix__> Was a very hot christmas day here - 35'C - but a good one :)
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23:15 <@preaction-m> Merry Xmas everyone. I get to celebrate by installing WinXP over a  WinME install at my mom's house
--- Day changed Tue Dec 26 2006
03:44 < Radix__> You need one of those thinkgeek t's - "No, I will not fix your computer."  I have one and wear it to all family gatherings.
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18:44 <+MrHairgrease> anybody out there?
18:45 <+MrHairgrease> where's the webgui.log supposed to be in teh wre?
18:45 <+crythias> check the .confs
18:45 <+crythias> but it's probably in logs dir
18:45 <+crythias>  /data/wre/apache/logs or some such
18:50 <+MrHairgrease> yeah but what if it's not in the conf?
18:50 <+crythias> modperl.conf or modproxy.conf?
18:51 <+MrHairgrease> oh
18:51 <+MrHairgrease> of course
18:51 <+MrHairgrease> i'm being a dumbass
18:51 <+MrHairgrease> =)
18:51 <+MrHairgrease> thanks
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21:17 < cap10morgan> Hey, I'm trying to upgrade 6.8.10 to 7.1.3 and I'm getting this error: "Cannot open config file:  at ../../lib/WebGUI/Config.pm line 348, <DATA> line 225." Like there's a blank config file key in the %configs hash in upgrade.pl. Any idea what could be causing this?
21:17 < cap10morgan> I thought it filled the keys of that hash w/ every file that ends in .conf that's not log.conf or spectre.conf?
21:19 <+crythias> can't open config file is generally any path problem. 
21:19 <+crythias> start with where you're running upgrade.pl
21:19 <+crythias> don't put your .conf there, but ...
21:19 < cap10morgan> i'm running it in webgui_root/sbin
21:19 <+MrHairgrease> did you set the configfile in the apache.conf?
21:19 <+crythias> if you're not in WebGUI/sbin, the relative path might...
21:19 <+MrHairgrease> in the vhost taht is
21:20 < cap10morgan> sudo perl upgrade.pl --doit --skipBackup
21:20 < cap10morgan> it's a bunch of different configfiles
21:20 < cap10morgan> for lots of sites
21:20 <+crythias> don't sudo
21:20 <+MrHairgrease> you don't have to sudo 
21:20 <+crythias> run as root
21:21 <+MrHairgrease> oh
21:21 <+MrHairgrease> one thing
21:21 <+MrHairgrease> iirc
21:21 <+MrHairgrease> you first have to ugrade to 6.99
21:22 <+MrHairgrease> and then upgrade further to 7.1.3
21:22 <+crythias> no
21:22 <+crythias> 6.8.10-> 7.1.3 is ok
21:22 <+MrHairgrease> ok
21:23 < cap10morgan> crythias: sudo is root
21:23 <+crythias> uh. so su
21:23 < cap10morgan> i don't have root's password, that's why we use sudo :)
21:24 < cap10morgan> i've done an upgrade before w/ sudo, and it worked fine (as well as everything else i do w/ sudo)
21:24 < cap10morgan> and even this script is processing some of the config files fine
21:24 < cap10morgan> but then it gets to this error and bails
21:25 <+crythias> and also check your preload.perl
21:25 <+MrHairgrease> could it be that some conf file is not correct?
21:25 < cap10morgan> checked preload.perl, webgui root is fine
21:25 <+MrHairgrease> preload.perl is only relevant for running apache
21:25 <+MrHairgrease> not for upgrading
21:26 <+crythias> also make sure the conf is in JSON format
21:26 <+MrHairgrease> indeed
21:26 <+MrHairgrease> the upgrade is supposed to handle that though
21:27 <+MrHairgrease> testEenvironments.pl works right?
21:28 < cap10morgan> yep, passes w/ flying colors
21:28 < cap10morgan> also claims i'm using 7.1.3-stable
21:28 < cap10morgan> :)
21:29 <+crythias> um.
21:29 <+crythias> oops
21:29 < cap10morgan> my ultimate goal is to upgrade from 6.6.5 to latest 7.x
21:29 < cap10morgan> so i'm going 6.6.5 -> 6.8.10 -> 7.1.3 -> 7.2.3
21:29 < cap10morgan> so i should be at 6.8.10 now
21:29 <+crythias> you've messed up a step, then.
21:30 < cap10morgan> ok, i'm not sure what that could be, as i'm using upgrade.pl and reading the gotchas and everything
21:30 <+crythias> if your site says 7.1.3, you're at 7.1.3 so you have to back to 6.8.10 and try again
21:31 <+MrHairgrease> sorry guys
21:31 <+MrHairgrease> gotta go
21:31 <+MrHairgrease> good luck
21:31 -!- MrHairgrease is now known as MrAfkGrease
21:31 < cap10morgan> ok, but won't that leave me in the same boat?
21:31 <+crythias> dunno.
21:32 <+crythias> there has to be other reasons to fail..
21:32 < cap10morgan> ok, guess it can't hurt to try
22:05  * cap10morgan is almost back to 6.6.5 starting point
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02:32 < Radix__> Hi JT
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04:27 <@preaction-m> to this day I cannot say the phrase "Eddies in the space-time continuum" without laughing.
04:28 <+perlDreamer> is that where the teacher sent him for putting the tack on his chair?
04:30 <@preaction-m> never knew that "one of these days" was an eyewitness account
04:40 <@rizen> i
04:41 <@rizen> sorry, i should have said AFK before
04:42 <@preaction-m> it's expected, this network hosts an IdleRPG instance (or two) ;)
04:42 <@rizen> so how's it going doug?
04:43 <@preaction-m> not too bad, trying to pick up some slack on the DoS Alumni project
04:43 <@rizen> ah. how was your hanukkah-mas
04:43 <@rizen> and...you're supposed to be taking this week off
04:44 <+perlDreamer> all PB people are workaholics.  Y'all should know tha
04:44 <@rizen> no not exactly
04:44 <@preaction-m> standard family affair, new clothes, some stuff for the house, a ticket because someone decided that a single yellow line in the opposite lane is "passing in a no-passing zone" and browbeat a dispatcher into getting an officer to write me up for it
04:44 <@rizen> most of us are
04:44 <@rizen> almost all in fact
04:44 <@preaction-m> except Vrby
04:45 <@preaction-m> or is steve the whipping boy this week? ;)
04:45 <@rizen> all you want for xmas is a ticket?
04:45 <@rizen> drake is my current whipping boy
04:46 <@rizen> for leaving for xmas break 2 days early without telling anyone, and without finishing his project.
04:46 <@rizen> i should say, without telling anyone in advance
04:46 <@preaction-m> "want"? no, that's what I got :p I get a nice court date on the 15th of january, which btw I'll need to miss work for
04:46 <@rizen> no problem man
04:46 <@rizen> just send an email to the staff list
04:46 <@preaction-m> i'm not paying $200 for passing someone legally on one of the worst roads in Fond du Lac county
04:47 <@preaction-m> will do, when we reconvene
04:47 <@rizen> yeah, i'd fight it too
04:47 <@preaction-m> if I fail, at least they can take my $200 and turn the blind corner I passed (techincally legally) on into a No Passing Zone
04:48 <@rizen> i can't wait until we all get together next week
04:48 <@rizen> i want everyone to throw around their ideas for where we go next
04:49 <+perlDreamer> Guadalajara?
04:49 <@preaction-m> indeed. i've been kicking a few things about, some definately stupid, some unworkably awesome
04:49 <@rizen> last year we did it, and roy came up with the worst idea of the year
04:49 <@rizen> so it's going to be a great time i'm sure
04:50 <@preaction-m> plus I get to meet these foreigners. these southerners... these infidels who want to do horrible things to a crucial part of my body...
04:51 <@rizen> true enough
04:51 <@rizen> i have a few totally awesome yet probably unworkable ideas as well
04:52 <@rizen> how you been colin?
04:52 <@rizen> happy festivus?
04:53 <@preaction-m> Merry Chrismahannukwanzika!
04:53 <+perlDreamer> It's very wet here
04:53 <+perlDreamer> But Christmas was good.
04:53 <+perlDreamer> Got to give the kids remote control IR wooden trains
04:53 <+perlDreamer> Haven't seen them in two days
04:53 <+perlDreamer> I've been eating lots of chocolate from an unnamed company in Wisconsin
04:55 <+perlDreamer> and reading 200 hundred pages of Kristi's edits to the help
04:55 <@rizen> hehe
04:55 <+perlDreamer> Fixed 2 bugs in the Rich Editor
04:55 <@preaction-m> Just another thing that I had no idea was even possible when I was a kid, but now that I'm too old to appreciate, complain about.
04:55 <@rizen> glad to hear that you're eating the chocolate, but that was meant to be an apology to kathy
04:55 <@rizen> for having you work on webgui all the time
04:55 <@rizen> =_
04:55 <@rizen> just kidding
04:56 <+perlDreamer> I gave her a TV-B-Gone for Christmas
04:56 <+perlDreamer> she asked if it came in a model for laptops
04:56 <@rizen> huh?
04:56 <@rizen> what is that?
04:56 <+perlDreamer> http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/755e/
04:59 <@rizen> interesting
04:59 <@rizen> so how quickly does it work on your tv?
04:59 <+perlDreamer> 3 seconds.
04:59 <@rizen> nice
04:59 <+perlDreamer> I'm guessing that the laptop thing could be done.
04:59 <@rizen> i don't think so
04:59 <@rizen> i think it would take an emp
04:59 <+perlDreamer> Just hook up an IR receiver to the lid closing sensor and initiate a suspend
05:00 <@rizen> yeah, but that requires an external device
05:00 <+perlDreamer> hmmm.....
05:00 <+perlDreamer> a secure port with authentication over 802.11b
05:00 <+perlDreamer> and a daemon listening to the port of course
05:01 <@rizen> also requires the user to have that running on the box
05:01 <@rizen> the beauty of tv-b-gone is no mod to the tv
05:01 <@rizen> it "just works"
05:01 <@rizen> the only way to do that to a laptop is emp
05:03 <+perlDreamer> yeah, and it would turn off the TV while you're at it, too.
05:03 <+perlDreamer> Maybe we could submit that as a Super TV-B-Gone for next year's April Fools
05:04 <@rizen> indeed
05:04 <@rizen> i'll get kristi to write up some marketing schpeel
05:04 <@rizen> and steve to craft a device picture
05:05 <@rizen> and maybe some packaging
05:06 <+perlDreamer> They've added a form for new product submissions.  Just tag it as "April Fools" and they should get it.
05:08 <+perlDreamer> Did you have a nice Christmas?
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05:08 <@rizen> i guess...too much family time
05:08 <@rizen> but overall it was good
05:09 <+perlDreamer> new toys?
05:09 <@rizen> i bought myself a new gaming rig today
05:09 <@rizen> i give gifts, but i don't really get them
05:09 <@rizen> partly because i already have everything i want
05:09 <@preaction-m> what Do you get the man who has everything?
05:09 <@rizen> and partly because people know i'm pretty picky
05:10 <@rizen> my new gaming rig is amazing
05:10 <+perlDreamer> preaction-m: gift certificates/cash
05:10 <@rizen> intel quad core extreme processor
05:10 <@rizen> 4 gig ram
05:10 <@rizen> 2 - Nvidia 8800 video cards hooked via sli
05:10 <@rizen> each with 768mb of ram
05:10 <@preaction-m> ... i don't have 4 gig of ram in my entire network... combined...
05:11 <+perlDreamer> At work, I use a 300 MHz UltraSparc
05:11 <+perlDreamer> My new cellphone has more processing power than that.
05:11 <@rizen> yeah, this machine is pretty much top of the line
05:11 <@rizen> it's 5 times more powerful than the machine i use for work
05:11 <@rizen> at least 5 times
05:12 <@rizen> oh...and to make sure it really screams
05:12 <+perlDreamer> water cooling?
05:12 <@rizen> it has 4 3g/s sata2 drives striped at raid 0
05:12 <@rizen> yup, liquid cooled
05:13 <@rizen> i haven't bought a non-work computer in almost 6 years
05:13 <@rizen> so i made sure that i got the top of the line
05:13 <@preaction-m> i am officially demasculated... i'm leaving to go scrape up what's left of my nerdiness... i think i just coughed it into the other room...
05:13 <@rizen> so it will last me for another 6 years
05:14 <+perlDreamer> XP or advanced copy of Vista?
05:14 <@rizen> you shouldn't feel bad..the machine that i bought you for work is amazing for a laptop
05:14 <@rizen> xp...i'm not putting vista on it ever
05:14 <@rizen> did you read what they're doing with vista
05:14 <@rizen> ??
05:14 <+perlDreamer> yes
05:14 <@rizen> screw that
05:14 <+perlDreamer> but some people make strange choices
05:14 <+perlDreamer> to play games
05:15 <@rizen> i just bought the best hardware on the market
05:15 <@rizen> only to have it run half as fast
05:15 <@rizen> and not as good
05:15 <@preaction-m> what's this about vista? i haven't listened since they made me buy XP about 3 times
05:15 <@rizen> because ms decided to create a drm system
05:15 <@preaction-m> ah yes, trustless computing
05:15 <@rizen> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
05:16 <+perlDreamer> I've seen that post mentioned, but haven't read it yet.
05:16 <@rizen> you should read it
05:16 <@rizen> i've been researching this new rig for about 3 months now
05:16 <@rizen> and i was waiting for vista to buy it
05:16 <@rizen> cuz i wanted the best of the best
05:17 <@rizen> but when i read that, i decided to buy it today
05:17 <@rizen> cuz i wanted to make sure i got a copy of xp with it
05:17 <+perlDreamer> XP will still be around for while, even after Vista is released
05:17 <@preaction-m> wtf, i'm two paragraphs in and this was considered a Good Idea (tm)?
05:17 <@rizen> yeah i know they've said it
05:17 <@rizen> but if i'm not waiting for vista
05:17 <@rizen> there was no reason to wait
05:18 <@rizen> plus the company i ordered it through still was running their xmas sale
05:18 <@rizen> which gave an extra 5% off and a free liquid cooling system
05:18 <+perlDreamer> nice
05:19 <@rizen> yeah doug...now you know why i'm pissed about it
05:19 <@rizen> granted that it doesn't take me much to get pissed
05:19 <@rizen> right gerald?
05:20 <+perlDreamer> It is a good idea, it's just a question of whom it is good for.
05:20 <@preaction-m> this is impossible, it's unworkable, inconceivable, in---something... adjectives fail me for how...
05:20 <+perlDreamer> it sucks?
05:20 <@rizen> indeed
05:21 <@preaction-m> no, it can't be done. no business will buy hardware that only works in Vista, and hardware manufacturers aren't going to waste time writing drivers for every different kernel in the wild
05:22 <+perlDreamer> I don't care much for Bill Gates, but I have to give him one credit.  He knows how to use Microsoft to make money.
05:22 <+perlDreamer> Some people will buy into this.
05:22 <@rizen> doug: frank just told me to tell you that he won't be online until after 10am tomorrow...got stuck with inlaws
05:22 <@rizen> and most people won't know about it until it's too late
05:23 <+perlDreamer> right.  Most people are ignorant.
05:23 <@preaction-m> "You'll never get another virus again!"
05:24 <+perlDreamer> It's the 2x4 solution to dirty windows.
05:24 -!- perlDreamer is now known as perlDreamer_afk
05:24 <+perlDreamer_afk> be back soon
05:33 < Radix__> Rizen: sounds like a mighty fine gaming rig you have there - but the big question is.. what games do you plan to play on it? :)
05:33 <@rizen> it was built for only one game
05:34 <@rizen> Supreme Commander
05:34 <@rizen> http://www.supremecommander.com/
05:34 <@rizen> However, I'm sure it will work quite fine for the other games that I play.
05:34 <@rizen> Which include 4X games like Sword of the Stars
05:35 <@rizen> Tactical shooters like Swat 4
05:35 <@rizen> and anything else that hits me
05:36 < Radix__> hehe
05:36 <@rizen> do you game?
05:36 < Radix__> yup
05:36 <@rizen> and if so, what kinds of games?
05:37 < Radix__> not as much as I used to
05:37 < Radix__> had a mini-lan with a couple of mates yesterday even.. we played a few bouts of rise of nations: rise of legends
05:37 <@rizen> For me gaming allows me to not think about WebGUI for a while...so it actually makes my code and designs better to BSU (blow shit up).
05:37 < Radix__> company of heroes is good too
05:38 < Radix__> both rts style games
05:38 <@rizen> rise of nations is awesome
05:38 <@rizen> haven't played company of heros
05:38 < Radix__> I have a nice dell laptop I bought especially for gaming - very nice for lans also :)
05:38 < Radix__> one of the dell xps 1710 laptops with all the fruit
05:38 <@rizen> nice
05:39 <@rizen> i thought about the laptop route, but i only drag my rig to a lan party once per year (if that)
05:39 <@rizen> so i figured i could do better with a big box
05:39 <@rizen> most of the time i play with friends over the net
05:39 < Radix__> more upgradeable that way too
05:40 <@rizen> indeed
05:40 <@rizen> or in my case...easier to replace parts
05:40 <@rizen> if they go bad
05:40 <@rizen> since it's pretty much topped out
05:40 < Radix__> I have a desktop box, but upgrading it was going to cost a lot as I needed a new everything
05:40 <@rizen> yeah...me too
05:40 < Radix__> we can get laptops as a salary sacrifice here in australia so it's tax exempt
05:41 <@rizen> actually..the funny thing is that even though my current gaming box is better than most people's boxes
05:41 <@rizen> it's still not good enough for supreme commander
05:41 <@rizen> so i had to upgrade
05:41 < Radix__> so I picked up a $5k laptop and it cost me half that in reality :)
05:41 <@rizen> nice
05:41 <@rizen> that's really cool
05:41 < Radix__> and my desktop machine is now my file server :)
05:41 < Radix__> yeah, it's pretty cool.. pay it off over the year too
05:42 <@rizen> my sister is in college and needs a new computer, so i'm giving her my old gaming rig
05:42 < Radix__> cool
05:42 <@rizen> it's a 2.1 ghz p4 with a gig of ram
05:43 <@rizen> more than enough for writing papers, checking email, and browsing the web
05:43 <@rizen> which is all she does
05:43 < Radix__> yeah, that's about what my old desktop is like.. p2.4 (which overclocks nicely to 3Ghz) with a gig of ram
05:43 < Radix__> and a decent radeon vid card (well.. for it's time anyway)
05:44 <@rizen> yeah...me too
05:44 <@rizen> mine was a geforce 4
05:44 <@rizen> which was top of the line when i bought it
05:44 <@rizen> 6 years ago
05:44 <@rizen> =)
05:44 < Radix__> that's the thing with this industry.. everything is changing so rapidly
05:46 < Radix__> keeps things interesting for us, but also makes computers such a bad investment
05:47 <@rizen> do you think that an asset code generator would be useful?
05:47 < Radix__> asset code generator?  how would that work?
05:47 <@rizen> basically, you create a database table (or tables if you have collateral)
05:48 <@rizen> and then you run the code generator against it
05:48 <@rizen> and it creates the various getters, setters
05:48 <@rizen> www_ methods
05:48 <@rizen> definition method
05:48 <@rizen> and the install/uninstall subroutines
05:48 < Radix__> hmm.. kinda like a customised sql form then
05:49 < Radix__> interesting idea
05:49 <@rizen> i guess so...but the idea is to replace the Asset and or Wobject templates
05:49 <@rizen> or rather "skeletons"
05:49 <@rizen> it would get you up and running faster with working code
05:50 < Radix__> Is that what most people create assets to do then?  just retrieve/set data from a table?
05:50 <@rizen> that's the basic part of it
05:50 < Radix__> I've never needed to create an asset myself
05:51 <@rizen> but then they could add their own special functions
05:51 <@rizen> so it starts out with these basic things
05:51 <@rizen> like, if you were going to create an asset that interoperates with google maps
05:51 <@rizen> it would have a table for the asset itself
05:52 <@rizen> and then it would probably have a collateral table with locations on the map to point out
05:52 <@rizen> you could run this code generator, which would give you the base asset
05:52 < Radix__> yeah, I see what you mean - makes sense I guess
05:52 <@rizen> and then as a developer you'd have to write the functions that actually deal with the google integration
05:52 <@rizen> ruby on rails does this
05:53 <@rizen> which is part of why people love it
05:53 < Radix__> I just used an article and added the javascript in the head portion :)
05:53 < Radix__> when I did a google maps object that is :)
05:53 <@rizen> but what gave me the idea to do it, is that i'm writing an asset right now, that has 10 collateral tables
05:53 < Radix__> that's quite a few! :)
05:53 <@rizen> i didn't even write an asset for google maps when i did it
05:54 <@rizen> i just pasted the code into a snippet
05:58 < Radix__> snippets rock :)
05:59 <@rizen> Steve (our graphics guy) calls them "a designer's best friend"
05:59 < Radix__> Yeah, they're so useful
06:00 < Radix__> I used some to create a handful of variables for versions of our software - then I can change the snippets and all of the links for our demos, release notes, patches, etc automatically change when they do.
06:01 < Radix__> got half a dozen locations on our website where we need to put the latest version number - so this saves me heaps of time and much less chance of error :)
06:03 <@rizen> that's pretty cool...but for small info like that it would probably be more efficient to put that stuff into your config file
06:03 <@rizen> and then write a Config macro
06:03 <@rizen> that returns values from the config file
06:03 <@rizen> either way though...good way to go
06:03 <@rizen> better than hardcoding
06:04 < Radix__> not half as easy to change though
06:04 <@rizen> editing the config file?
06:04 <@rizen> you mean cuz you have to ssh to the server?
06:04 < Radix__> not for end users - no
06:04 <@rizen> ah
06:04 <@rizen> yes
06:04 <@rizen> if end users have to change it
06:04 <@rizen> then yes that's better
06:04 < Radix__> well any one of us could be doing a product release
06:05 < Radix__> it's under version control too, so before we push out the changes we can test it
06:05 <@rizen> true enough
06:06 <@rizen> another good reason for using a snippet
06:08 <+crythias> ick
06:09 <@rizen> ick?
06:09 <+crythias> reading the link...
06:09 <+crythias> Once a weakness is found in a particular driver or device, that driver will have its signature revoked by Microsoft, which means that it will cease to function
06:10 -!- perlDreamer_afk is now known as perlDreamer
06:10 <@rizen> yeah
06:10 <@rizen> rediculous
06:10 <+perlDreamer> Oh, the heady days when I didn't have to stick my fingers into someone's mouth
06:10 <@rizen> i hate kids
06:10 <@rizen> i was around some this weekend
06:10 <@rizen> and they got me sick
06:10 <@rizen> little disease carriers
06:10 <+perlDreamer> germ factories
06:10 < Radix__> lol
06:42 < Radix__> free legal copy of blind write anyone? http://www.giveawayoftheday.com/blindwrite/
06:43 <@rizen> sweet
06:43 <@rizen> there was a program a long time ago called virtualcd
06:44 <@rizen> i didn't know something like this existed anymore
06:45 <@preaction-m> there's daemontools as well, which supports almost every kind of cd image i've been able to throw at it
06:45 <@rizen> i thought daemontools was only for linux
06:46 <@preaction-m> nope, i didn't know there was a linux version
06:46 < Radix__> daemon tools rocks
06:46 < Radix__> http://www.daemon-tools.cc/
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06:46 <@preaction-m> different daemontools, the *nix one is for managing services apparently
06:47 <@rizen> oh
06:47 <@rizen> hehe
06:47 <@rizen> sorry, yeah i didn't know about the windows thingy
06:47 <@rizen> i don't know much about windows
06:47 <@preaction-m> i think i kept having that problem the (seemingly more frequent) times I have to rebuild my WinXP system
06:48 <@preaction-m> i would like a daemontools-workalike for *nix though, mount -o loop just works for ISO images, and I believe there's a kernel driver for bin/cue
06:52 <@rizen> yeah, mac can do it
06:52 <@rizen> it can mount an image for any filesystem it knows about
06:52 <@rizen> i love that it's just built into the os
06:53 <@preaction-m> indeed, so much built into the OS
06:53 <@preaction-m> the stuff that should be, that third-party tools have always been hackishly trying to implement in windows
06:54 <@rizen> so now that you've been using it for a while
06:55 <@rizen> how's yer mac treating you?
06:55 <@preaction-m> aside from the difficulties with the WRE, swimmingly
06:56 <@rizen> if i had an intel mac i'd make a binary wre for it
06:56 <@preaction-m> actually did a side-by-side comparison with ubuntu edgy (installed w/ Bootcamp), and OSX gui is just easier to use
06:56 <@rizen> oh yeah...way easier
06:56 <@rizen> i still prefer the unix of linux
06:56 <@rizen> the command shell
06:56 <@rizen> but, the mac command shell isn't all that bad
06:56 <@rizen> and you get used to it
06:56 <@preaction-m> still some keyboard shortcuts to get used to, but it's been this long and they aren't holding me back any way
06:57 <@preaction-m> OSX's Terminal is comparable to Gnome's gterm emulator
06:57 <@preaction-m> just no tabs
06:57 <@rizen> yeah..sorry i should have been more specific
06:57 <@rizen> it's not the terminal app i don't like
06:57 <@rizen> but rather the filesystem layout is hard to get used to
06:58 <@rizen> i can't find anything when i'm looking for it
06:58 <@rizen> config files and the like
06:58 <@preaction-m> it's a little weird that they didn't work with the grain and worked against it
06:59 <@preaction-m> but i suppose it's weirder that certain things use the unix heirarchy, and other things use apple's additions
07:01 <@preaction-m> i was thinking that maybe updating the sources in the WRE would fix the compile problems, or something, but I haven't been able to test any theories
07:01 <@preaction-m> that, and installing ubuntu fails miserably. either I don't get sound, or I don't get AirPort (both of which are showstoppers)
07:01 <@preaction-m> still working on that one as well
07:02 <@rizen> that's one of the areas that linux really sux
07:02 <@rizen> wifi drivers
07:03 <@preaction-m> well, it works on the 2.17 kernel that comes standard w/ Edgy, but sound doesn't
07:03 <@preaction-m> and my custom 2.18 and 2.19 kernels both lose airport but gain sound
07:03 <@preaction-m> i'm assum
07:03 <@preaction-m> ing it's just
07:03 <@preaction-m>  a 
07:03 <@preaction-m> wtf
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07:04 <@preaction-m> a configuration error, but i've been putting off trying to play around in favor of being productive
07:10 <@preaction-m> otherwise, if it weren't for those major issues, all the minor issues are taken care of. mouse-button emulation, backlight adjustement (after lengthy tinkering), some Fn keys worked out of the box, but I hear there are troubles with the DVI port (mostly because of X)
07:11 <@rizen> eventually you'll get over it and won't want/need ubuntu on your laptop anyway =)
07:12 <@preaction-m> i already kinda don't, it's taking up half the hard drive i could be using to store my music, but the first solution i find for the WRE is the one I use
07:12 <@preaction-m> also, i was surprised, wireless configuration has come a long way (if your drivers work)
07:12 <@rizen> talk to roy
07:12 <@rizen> he has a working wre on mac
07:13 <@rizen> intel mac that is
07:13 <@preaction-m> he told me to talk to drake, and the linguistic acrobatics that requires has made me reticent
07:14 <@rizen> i wonder why he said to do that
07:14 <@rizen> roy has a working wre
07:14 <@preaction-m> i've gotten as far as installing Perl modules, and I believe I remember an e-mail detailing that I had to use cpan and install them all manually, since the compiling didn't work
07:14 <@preaction-m> i think drake's the one that solved roy's problems, or maybe he was just busy that day
07:14 <@rizen> tell roy to fuck off and just tar.gz his wre for you
07:14 <@preaction-m> the BNT stuff perhaps
07:15 <@preaction-m> oh, dur, we can totally do that when everyone's together, at 54Mbps
07:15 <@rizen> hehe
07:15 <@preaction-m> until then, i can limp along with my ssh/home network nightmare
07:15 <@rizen> or you can hook up to my ethernet switch and go even faster
07:16 <@preaction-m> since i need it in 30 seconds not 3 minutes ;)
07:16 <@preaction-m> then we can hopefully restore the HFS+ partition to its full 100gig glory
07:18 <@rizen> i don't know if you can do that or not
07:18 <@rizen> i haven't played with the partitioner in bootcamp
07:18 <@preaction-m> bootcamp let me resize down, i can only hope it'll let me resize up
07:18 <@rizen> the regular disk utility isn't capable of that
07:19 <@preaction-m> either that, or i'll burn the WRE and reinstall OSX, since I think it's bootcamp's BIOS emulation that's been causing problems with my sound card automagically muting my headphones when they get plugged in
07:20 <@preaction-m> would that reflash the EFI though? sigh...
07:20 <@rizen> no idea
07:21 <@rizen> but i do know that reinstalling osx is fairly painless and really speedy
07:22 <@preaction-m> yeah, only true problems i've had with OS installs has been Windows, except back in the linux 2.7 days
07:24 <@preaction-m> (probably more my fault than Linux's)
07:26 <@rizen> i'm signing off
07:26 <@rizen> ttyl
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07:27 <@preaction-m> bah, you and your signing off. NOBODY ESCAPES THE IRC
07:27  * preaction-m is safe, boss's back is turned
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21:32 < cap10morgan> Super weird error: I'm trying to upgrade 6.6.5 -> 7.2.3 so I'm doing 6.6.5 -> 6.8.10 -> 7.1.3 -> 7.2.3
21:33 < cap10morgan> on the 6.8.10 -> 7.1.3 phase, the upgrade is erroring out sometimes.
21:33 < cap10morgan> I've debugged it to the new session creation in the upgrade-6.8.9-6.8.10.pl script (6.8.10 upgrades leaves the version set at 6.8.9 for some reason)
21:34 < cap10morgan> anyway, that call triggers a call to WebGUI::Config->new($webguiRoot,$configFile);
21:34 < cap10morgan> when that is called, it sometimes doesn't have the class as the first thing on the stack
21:35 < cap10morgan> so inside that new method, where it says: my $class = shift; my $webguiRoot = shift; my $configFile = shift; it is sometimes getting the value of $webguiRoot for $class and the value of $configFile for $webguiRoot
21:35 < cap10morgan> i've added a line to spit these variables out to confirm this
21:36 < cap10morgan> does anyone have any idea what could be going on here?
21:48 < cap10morgan> oh, actually, it's not getting the $class variable set on the call to the open method of WebGUI::Session
21:50 < cap10morgan> which is super weird
21:58 < cap10morgan> so apparently perl is not putting the class name as the first argument
21:58 < cap10morgan> that makes no sense
22:00 <@rizen> i don't actually have time to help you, but i can hint that the error you're seeing is likely because some constructor somewhere isn't getting a session object passed into it as the first parameter. all objects in webgui should receive $session as the first parameter.
22:01 < cap10morgan> rizen: does this make sense: in upgrade-6.8.9-6.8.10.pl, WebGUI::Session->open is called as WebGUI::Session::open instead.
22:01 < cap10morgan> would that cause it? and/or is that a bug I should report?
22:01 <@rizen> yes, that would cause it
22:01 <@rizen> we are no longer maintaing those old releases
22:01 <@rizen> no more patches
22:02 <@rizen> so no, there's no reason to report it
22:02 < cap10morgan> this is the script that came w/ 7.1.3
22:02 <@rizen> but do post something to the forums
22:02 <@rizen> oh really?
22:02 < cap10morgan> and people need to be able to upgrade
22:02 <@rizen> nevermind then
22:02 <@rizen> report that
22:02 < cap10morgan> ok, i'll report
22:02 < cap10morgan> thanks
22:02 <@rizen> i didn't think that came with it
22:02 < cap10morgan> oh, well, i'm copying it over an old install to upgrade, so maybe it didn't
22:03 < cap10morgan> but it seems like the new versions should come w/ a new script to overwrite that one. cuz lots of us are scrambling to upgrade before pre-7 EOL! :)
22:03 <@rizen> it can't come with that script
22:03 <@rizen> because that script isn't compatible with 7.0 api's
22:03 <@rizen> that's why the 7.0 stuff doesn't come with the old scripts
22:05 < cap10morgan> but, it isn't used unless someone's upgrading from an old version. which lots of us still need to do. i'm confused why that couldn't be fixed.
22:05 <@rizen> i don't have time to explain it
22:05 <@rizen> just trust me
22:06 <@rizen> it can't be included in 7.x releases
22:06 <@rizen> fix it for yourself 
22:06 <@rizen> and post a note to the upgrades forum
22:06 <@rizen> so other people can find it
22:07 -!- rizen is now known as rizen_afk
22:12 < cap10morgan> that makes no sense. put a new copy of the script in the tarball, overwrite, fix, voila. but whatever, i'll take it to the forums.
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06:38 <@rizen> doug, you here?
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00:11 < cap10morgan> Does WebGUI 7 cache pages somewhere that is persistent across restarts?
00:38 < cap10morgan> ah, yes, yes it does
00:38 < cap10morgan> :)
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01:55 < xdanger> preaction-m: was just reading backlog, and have a hint for you... in mac os x, try iTerm, it's a better terminal...
01:55 < xdanger> wiht tabs, n stuff
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14:02 < arminius> hello @ all :-)
14:03 < Radix__> hello there
14:04 < arminius> just looking around to learn about creating my own styles in WebGUI-7.x.x
14:24 < Radix__> Ahh
14:25 < Radix__> Snippets are way cool for storing all the things associated with the styles (ie. javascript, images, css, etc)
14:26 < arminius> Iґm still using 5.5.8 on my production sites
14:26 < Radix__> as for the styles themselves, everyone does it differently.. I mocked mine up in my favourite gui web editor then copied the lot into webgui and replaced the <insert content here> bits with the appropriate webgui template variables
14:28 < arminius> I tried a few times to upgrade to the 6.x.x Versions, but didnґt succeed
14:30 < arminius> actually Iґm trying to find out how to get a multiple domain server up and running
14:31 < arminius> the wre doesnґt work for me, because my OS is FreeBSD
14:31 < arminius> tried it on a testing machine with debian, worked very well
14:32 < arminius> now I try to get it up and running on FreeBSD manually
14:33 < arminius> and then newly create the production sites on it
14:35 < Radix__> cant compile the WRE for freebsd?
14:36 < arminius> no, it crashes while compiling the tools already
14:36 < Radix__> Hmm..
14:36 < Radix__> Well I have a multi-domain setup here fine with webgui
14:37 < Radix__> my home pc is still using the older 6.8.10 version, been meaning to upgrade it, but it's a non-WRE setup and multi-domain, so always put it on the backburner to be honest
14:37 < Radix__> at work we're using 7.0.8 for our production site
14:38 < arminius> Iґm using jails on my FreeBSD root-server fpor security reasons
14:38 < Radix__> I just have a /data/domains/xxx.xxx/www for each domain
14:39 < Radix__> a config file for each domain
14:39 < Radix__> and each site config in apache points to the appropriate www dir
14:40 < Radix__> can't think of anything else that was required
14:40 < arminius> I managed to get a multi-domain setup up and runnig in an extra jail, but then filde to mke the styles
14:40 < arminius> failed
14:41 < arminius> th versioning system gets me baffled
14:41 < Radix__> it's pretty cool once you get the hang of it
14:42 < Radix__> in version 7 - most things you do get added to your current version tag
14:42 < Radix__> if you don't have one, it creates one for you
14:42 < arminius> tried to copy existing styles, but after a while the copies disappeared
14:42 < Radix__> once you've done it all, you commit it and it gets rolled out onto the site
14:43 < Radix__> You need to have spectre running in order for it to work correctly though - so make sure you have spectre started first
14:43 < Radix__> You can also review your changes before you commit them, roll back to previous versions and do all sorts of cool stuff
14:44  * arminius nods
14:44 < arminius> thatґs what I read about it
14:46 < arminius> still looking for the point where to start, to get my exisitng sites into the new installation of webgui
14:47 < Radix__> that's where the PB support comes in handy I must say
14:47 < Radix__> the Webgui Done Right manual has some help for setting that up too
14:48 < Radix__> and no, I'm not a PB employee ;)
14:48 < arminius> well, I prefer to get to know the system well enough to do that myself
14:48 < arminius> how could I solve problems otherwise?
14:48 < Radix__> Sure, me too, but I learnt most of what I know from reading everyone elses support posts in the PB Support Forum
14:52 < arminius> I read a lot there, but am still missing my starting point 
14:53 < arminius> I assume first I need ti get to know how to set up the styles for the sites, then I can turn them over step by step
14:54 < Radix__> shouldn't be much different from 5.8.8
14:54 < Radix__> I think I remember having to change a few of the variables for some reason
14:55 < Radix__> was annoyed it wasn't done automatically at the time
14:56 < arminius> I think I need to start from scratch and create every site again in 7.x.x
14:58 < arminius> I tried to copy the existing standard webgui style from within asset manager
15:01 < arminius> copied the complete folder and then renamed it, but after a while it disappeared, and I donґt know why
15:33 < Radix__> it would've created a version tag for the copy.  If you didn't commit it, next time when you logged in then you would be given no default version tag, so you wouldn't see those changes
15:33 < Radix__> you only see the changes that were made in your current version tag
15:34 < arminius> so I need to commit each change to see it on the site, right?
15:35 < Radix__> generally you commit the changes at the end.. when all the changes you have made are done.
15:36 < Radix__> have a play with demo.plainblack.com sometime perhaps
15:36 < Radix__> most actions get saved to the current version tag - though there's a couple that don't (delete's being one of them)
15:37 < arminius> my intention was to have copy of a working style and then make changes to it and see what happens
15:37 < Radix__> yup, in that case as long as you're looking at it in the same session then you'd see the changes instantly.
15:38 < Radix__> only if you wanted to log out and test it with different accounts, etc do you run into issues with version tags
15:41 < arminius> But why did the copied Folder disappear?
15:57 < arminius> and where does webgui look for styles to make them appear in the dropdownlist for pages?
16:03 < arminius> there are sytyle-definitions in Root/ImportNode/WebGUI 7 Style 1   Root/ImportNode/WebGUI 7 Style 2   Root/ImportNode/WebGUI 7 Style 3
16:04 < arminius> so I created a new folder in Root/ImportNode called MyStyle01  and then copied the contents of WebGUI 7 Style 3 into it
16:07 < arminius> then committed the changes, but when I try to edit the "Home" page, I canґt select my newly created style
16:13 < arminius> I just tried to select the newly created style in "settings" but the folder already disappeared again
17:25 < Radix__> the styles can be stored anywhere - as long as they're the right template class they'll be found
17:32 < arminius> ok, got that so far, restarting spectre brought my folder back and I changed the class so that the new style can be found 
17:33 < arminius> but now thereґs a referencing problem, I guess
17:35 < arminius> in the original "Style 03" theres a reference to "link href="^/;style3/css03.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"
17:36 < arminius> but I canґt find a folder "style3"
17:37 < arminius> or how do I reference to my /Root/ImportNode/MyStyle01 folder to get the right stylesheet loaded
18:18 < arminius> as far as I figured out now, itґs just a matter of giving the right "url" to the file when saving it, correct me if Iґm wrong
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21:10 < arminius> thanks for the help, c ya
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--- Day changed Sun Dec 31 2006
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16:28 < Radix__> Happy New Year folks! :)
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22:14 <+crythias> anyone here?
22:15 <+crythias> preaction, preaction-m, ckotil, pedersenMJ, perlbot, Radix__, vidar_ xdanger
--- Log closed Mon Jan 01 00:00:04 2007
