--- Log opened Wed Nov 01 00:00:15 2006
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--- Day changed Thu Nov 02 2006
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03:50 < preaction> has anyone set up the WRE on FreeBSD?
03:51 < preaction> most of the prereqs I need for the entire system, but some I don't know...
03:52 < Radix-wrk> not me
03:52 < Radix-wrk> crythias uses freebsd
03:52 < Radix-wrk> but don't think he's using the wre
03:54 < Radix-wrk> http://gwybsd.homeip.net/fomfiles/cache/15.html
03:54 < Radix-wrk> apparently imagemagick and freebsd is an issue
03:55 < Radix-wrk> http://www.plainblack.com/install/upgrade_help/freebsd--imagemagick--core-dump-among-other-problems#jNRvVtHtOA8J_8f5OPkOxA
03:56 < Radix-wrk> Quite a detailed setup for webgui on freebsd, but that's not using the wre obviously
04:05 < preaction> ha! i remember that one
04:05 < preaction> for some reason, imageMagick just magically doesn't work anymore in my Ubuntu box
04:05 < preaction> i have no idea
04:06 < preaction> some problem with the XS
04:06 < preaction> (not using the WRE, i hate the concept of it)
04:07 < preaction> i'm compiling mod_perl2 right now, because the FreeBSD Apache2.2 package doesn't have it
04:07 < Radix-wrk> I used to use debian, etc myself.. but kept on having wierd issues that noone at plainblack could identify.  navigation bars missing for all users, etc.. drove me crazy.  Could not reproduce the issue on my test system.
04:07 < preaction> lots more setup for this box... mail server, temporary HTTP server until I get another one (which will also be running FreeBSD)
04:07 < preaction> did you copy the /extras directory?
04:07 < Radix-wrk> Figured out it must be some wierd perl library version somewhere that was different from what PB were using
04:07 < preaction> i've noticed a lot of the docs on pb.com are outdated
04:08 < preaction> perhaps i should use my powers to change that situation
04:08 < Radix-wrk> so now I use the WRE
04:08 < Radix-wrk> on Centos 4.3 (RHEL4)
04:08 < preaction> if they didn't give me 2.5 weeks left to do the entire EC rewrite (and i've spent a week and a half just doing Functional Spec and Technical Spec... when can I start CODING?)
04:09 < preaction> the debian WRE i installed for a client the other day, worked right away, very nicely
04:09 < preaction> hmm..
04:10 < preaction> ok, i lied, i like the concept, but not for my own computers ;)
04:15 < Radix-wrk> heh
04:17 < Radix-wrk> Oooh.. functional spec and technical spec before you code - don't tell me you were actually trained as a programmer ;)
04:19 < Radix-wrk> I'm a software engineer by trade myself, and network admin, and tech support, and mr fix it, and .. (insert everything else but the kitchen sink here)
04:43 < preaction> nope, not really trained per-se. my specs used to consist of writing all the documentation beforehand (which i suppose would be considered a techspec)
04:44 < preaction> i'm quickly becoming kitchen sink. my personal home network is my training grounds for *nix network administration, and plainblack is teaching me software engineering
04:44 < preaction> and tech support... monkeys could do it ;)
04:44 < preaction> mod_perl takes damn long to compile on a pentium 90 with 32 megs of ram...
04:45 < preaction> courier-imap took about 6 hours :(
05:08 < Radix-wrk> lol
05:08 < Radix-wrk> pentium 90?  omg.. that takes me back
05:09 < Radix-wrk> I first started with linux on a 386dx40 with 4mb of ram.  I couldn't do kernel compiles at all on that thing.. had to get my friend with 8mb of ram to compile me a cut down kernel for my system!
06:13 < Radix-wrk> new webgui out
06:13 -!- Radix-wrk changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI (stable: WebGUI 7.1.3) || Need help? Ask and wait patiently (it might take awhile)
06:15 < Radix-wrk> heh.. "- Tried to clean up some HttpProxy code. Still very ugly. (need rewrite?)"
07:04 < preaction> there were three different indent styles in that damned thing...
07:25 < Radix-wrk> heh
07:57 < Radix-wrk> Hmm.. odd - if I add some text to the headers section of an article, it gets put in the headers twice
08:02 < preaction> are you viewing the article as part of a page layout?
08:02 < preaction> it's midnight, why am i still up?
08:05 < Radix-wrk> yeah
08:05 < preaction> the page layout has no headers?
08:05 < Radix-wrk> editing an article and putting the headers bit in that, when I view the whole page, I get all the right info, but the bit I put in headers comes up twice
08:05 < Radix-wrk> it's literally duplicated twice right after itself
08:06 < preaction> thats weird
08:06 < Radix-wrk> never really used the headers section much before.. always added it to our global style headers
08:06 < Radix-wrk> but useful for testing out new css/javascript styles and the like - which is what I'm doing
08:07 < Radix-wrk> using 7.0.8 still - so could've been fixed already
08:07 < Radix-wrk> I've been waiting for 7.1.x to settle down a bit before I upgrade our website here.. still too many bugfixes in it for my liking
08:08 < Radix-wrk> Anyways.. odd nevertheless
08:08 < Radix-wrk> Trying to get this working in webgui - http://www.html.it/articoli/niftycube/index.html
08:09 < preaction> wow, it's been a while since i've seen nifty corners
08:10 < Radix-wrk> Would be nice to be able to set up article styles using it.  I'm still relatively new to javascript/css and the like
08:12 < Radix-wrk> I haven't sussed out the window.onload stuff yet.. which is why it doesn't work currently for me
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--- Log closed Thu Nov 02 15:51:04 2006
--- Log opened Thu Nov 02 16:51:05 2006
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17:24 <@snapcount> preaction: ping
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> pong
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> oh wait
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> not for me
17:25 <@snapcount> damn it martin
17:26 <@snapcount> you generated a tcp/ip error now
17:26 <@snapcount> oh wait
17:26 <@snapcount> that's syn/ack
17:26 <@snapcount> icmp error... just as bad!
17:26 < preaction> ack?
17:26 < preaction> ***NO CARRIER***
17:26 <@snapcount> preaction just made a new protocol
17:27 < preaction> the meek shall inherit the net
17:27 <@snapcount> is this the preaction of Wisconsin who hails as Doug?
17:27 < preaction> in the world of mere mortals i am known as such
17:28 <@snapcount> is your nic registered with freenode
17:29 < preaction> should be
17:29 < preaction> yes'm
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17:31 <@preaction> word
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17:32 <@snapcount> is The Drake on here?
17:32 < preaction> i'm not sure, if he is i don't believe he's talked much
17:33 <@snapcount> ok... if he ever logs in I'll set him up to be a pb peep
17:33 < Radix_> hey guys
17:33 <@snapcount> greetings and salutations
17:33 < Radix_> MrHairgrease is martin hey.. figures :)
17:33 < Radix_> hey roy
17:35 <@snapcount> I wish I could do community stuff all day
17:35 <@snapcount> it's more fun than programming some times
17:35 < Radix_> heh.. I just idle.. that way you never miss much :)
17:36 < preaction> exactly
17:36 <+crythias> all that blank white space... it's like watching a bitbucket.. being. drip. filled.
17:36 < Radix_> or grass growing :)
17:36 <@snapcount> BITBUKT
17:36 < preaction> sometimes it gets rather wild in here! woo!
17:36 < Radix_> but when things do happen.. least you don't miss out ;)
17:37 <@snapcount> I have to get the bot back online
17:37 < preaction> there used to be a bot in here?
17:37  * MrHairgrease applauds roy
17:37 < preaction> perlbot is gone for some reason... i don't know why
17:37 <@snapcount> calc pomade
17:37 < Radix_> perlbot? - what did it do?
17:37 <+MrHairgrease> calc pomade
17:37 <@snapcount> that was the best one *ever*
17:37 <+MrHairgrease> that was the good stuff
17:37 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
17:38 <@snapcount> how did it go...
17:38 <@snapcount> <JT> I need some palmade
17:38 <@snapcount> <martin> I hope you mean pomade
17:38 <@snapcount> something like that
17:38 <+MrHairgrease> something like that
17:39 <+MrHairgrease> maybe i have a log somewhere laying around
17:39 <+MrHairgrease> moment
17:39 <@snapcount> thanks for fixing those bugs martin
17:39 <+MrHairgrease> i just fixed another
17:39 <@snapcount> rock on
17:39 <+MrHairgrease> also ldap related
17:39 <@snapcount> what are you trying to say =)
17:40 <@snapcount> Roy broke LDAP cough* cough*
17:40  * MrHairgrease shuts his mouth wisely
17:40 <+MrHairgrease> i dunno who broke it
17:40 <@snapcount> it was me
17:40 <+MrHairgrease> it just sucked all along =)
17:40 <+MrHairgrease> well
17:41 <+MrHairgrease> you do provide me woth income 
17:41 <+MrHairgrease> in some way =)
17:41 <@snapcount> My errors are the result of writing code and not being able to check it in for 3 months
17:41 <@snapcount> then trying to merge
17:41 <+MrHairgrease> oh yeah
17:41 <+MrHairgrease> that sucks
17:41 < Radix_> yikes.. that would
17:43 <+MrHairgrease> here it is
17:43 <+MrHairgrease>  WRE: pomade = <rizen> give me some of that palmade <MrHairGrease> I hope you mean pomade
17:43 <@snapcount> LMAO
17:43 <@snapcount> yep that's it
17:43 <+MrHairgrease>  WRE: mattscode = <pbmdawg> {dangit;} i broke 6.9... beyond repair, probably.
17:43 <+MrHairgrease>  WRE: urine = <pb_M-Train> Did you know that all humans can urinate through their navels?
17:43 <+MrHairgrease> ok I'll stop now
17:44 < Radix_> Well.. I'll leave you guys to your pomade and bugs.. I'm off to bed.  Night all :)
17:44 <@snapcount> I have to get WRE back
17:44 <@snapcount> night Radix_ 
17:44 <+MrHairgrease> later
17:44 <+MrHairgrease> are you from australia or so?
17:44 < Radix_> ya.. I was the aussie at the WUC :)
17:44 <+MrHairgrease> ok 
17:44 <+MrHairgrease> I remember
17:45 <+MrHairgrease> good night
17:45 < Radix_> nite
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23:09 <@preaction> weirdest fucking bug i've ever seen. Image::Magick just FAILS for no reason. restarting apache fixed it...
23:13 <@preaction> probably something to do with me using Apache2::Reload
--- Day changed Fri Nov 03 2006
00:13 <@snapcount> yep
00:13 <@snapcount> like every 10-15 code changes I have bounce apache
00:30  * crythias 's considering rubygui
00:31 <+crythias> calc marriage
00:31 <+crythias> calc crythias
00:31 <+crythias> cruduby.
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02:30 <+crythia1> hm
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03:01 <@preaction> hm indeed
03:01 <@preaction> can someone direct me to the person who wrote the HttpProxy wobject so I may properly pummel them?
03:02 < Radix-wrk> can't you see who initially checked it in in cvs/svn?
03:03 <@preaction> the svn repo was checked in from the earlier cvs repo, and i don't know where that old cvs repo is (if it even exists still)
03:03 < Radix-wrk> ahh
03:04 < Radix-wrk> just blame jt then :)
03:04 <@preaction> he's got enough blame already ;)
03:05 < Radix-wrk> his fault for writing it all.. he gets credit and blame for the same action :)
03:05 <+crythia1> cvs @ sf.net
03:07 <@preaction> ooh, i can find the culprit
03:07 <@preaction> or i could just fix the damned thing
03:07 <+crythia1> 'cept... not there no more.
03:07 <@preaction> damnit
03:12 <+crythia1> http://pbwebgui.cvs.sourceforge.net/pbwebgui/
03:13 <+crythia1> https://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=29894&group_id=1#connection
03:15 < Radix-wrk> http://pbwebgui.cvs.sourceforge.net/pbwebgui/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/HttpProxy/
03:16 < Radix-wrk> written by JT initially
03:17 <@preaction> just says he migrated it
03:17 <@preaction> and it looks like it wasn't touched since away back then
03:18 < Radix-wrk> 21 months 4 weeks ago (isn't that 22 months)
03:19 <+crythia1> well ...
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19:11 <@snapcount> man... been a while since I wrote some code that I actually enjoyed
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20:25 < wdrev> test
21:51 < wdrev> I am trying to evaluate Webgui for my companys use
21:51 < wdrev> Can anyone tell me what would be the steps to add custom fields to a time tracker or a request tracker
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01:44 <@preaction> snapcount, what code would that be?
01:44 <@preaction> (he says 6 hours and 33 minutes later...)
01:45 <@preaction> i've been writing technical documents all week, no time for code :p
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20:04 < perlm> This channel usually pretty quiet?
20:56 <@preaction> yeah
20:56 <@preaction> especially weekends
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22:49 < perlm> Apache2::Request is impossible.
22:50 <@preaction> how so?
22:52 < perlm> Can't install it.  I'm on Fedora Core 6 new install.  Going through the list of modules required and can't get past this one.
22:53 <@preaction> yum?
22:53 < perlm> XS is where the errors start occurring and I won't touch XS code with a ten foot pole.
22:53 <@preaction> there might be a package for it
22:53 < perlm> Apache2::Request doesn't exist in the repos.
22:53 <@preaction> that's dumb
22:54 <@preaction> you're using cpan then?
22:54 <@preaction> you have the headers for apache2 right?
22:54 <@preaction> and axps?
22:54 < perlm> Yeah, using cpan.  But the module has to build.  Yes, axps came with the httpd-devel repo.
22:55 < perlm> ah
22:55 <@preaction> and apache2's headers
22:55 <@preaction> can you get the build-dependencies for apache2?
22:55 < perlm> headers.....yeah.....um......that would indeed be the problem.
22:55 <@preaction> i'm not familiar with yum or whatever RH is using
22:55 <@preaction> i've been debian/ubuntu forever
22:56 < perlm> the generated make file isn't finding the .h's......crap
22:56 <@preaction> edit the makefile.pl?
22:56 < perlm> running dapper?
22:56 <@preaction> dapper for now
22:56 <+crythias> :)
22:56 <@preaction> getting my FreeBSD apache server running so I can go xubuntu edgy
22:56 <+crythias> howdy
22:56 <@preaction> bonjourno
22:57 < perlm> I should fire it up and see how it compares to Core 6.  Core 6 seemed like a huge jump forward for the Fedora line.
22:57 <+crythias> :) :) :)
22:57 <+crythias> read my suse thing
22:57 <+crythias> THE SECRET: 
22:57 <+crythias> cp /usr/include/apache2/modules/perl/* /usr/include/apache2/
22:57 <+crythias> just sayin'
22:58 <+crythias> http://www.plainblack.com/install/upgrade_help/how-i-got-libapreq6.08-to-install-on-suse-10.1/1#idFxOUXj8tcHQrE0KrXapduQ
22:58 <+crythias> or something.
22:59 < perlm> crythias, is that a pitch to get me to move to Suse?
22:59 <+crythias> no.
22:59 <+crythias> It should be rather agnostic.
22:59 <@preaction> he's saying if you copy the mod_perl headers to /usr/include/apache2 it might compile
23:00 < perlm> fedora calls apache2 dirs, httpd.  I'm looking in /usr/include/httpd right now for the headers which *should* be there.
23:00 <+crythias> ok, close enough.
23:01 < perlm> The CVS portion of WebGUI looks really slick.  But if I can treat it like a framework and developer for it....well I probably won't be able to contain my joy.
23:01 < perlm> s/developer/develop/
23:01 <+crythias> heh. and if that were the case, ... I wouldn't be thinking of rube gui
23:01 <@preaction> you're getting the CVS from sourceforge?
23:02 <+crythias> preaction's got a point. cvs on sf.net is ancient.
23:02 < perlm> doh....CMS, not CVS....I can't type today.
23:02 <@preaction> ah
23:02 <+crythias> whew.
23:02 < perlm> and my problem is I'm missing the mod_perl headers from /usr/include/
23:02 <+crythias> 'cause otoh, webgui doesn't support a cvs interface...
23:02 < perlm> should be an easy fix.....:)
23:03 <+crythias> libmodperl2
23:03 <@preaction> otherwise, writing wobjects is pretty easy. figuring out whether to return the data or print the data is harder :(
23:03 <@preaction> i still don't understand what return "chunked" does
23:04 <+crythias> which fedora?
23:05 <+crythias> mod_perl-devel (that's the libmodperl I was looking for)
23:05 < perlm> I haven't even looked at the API yet, but I was curious how hard it would be.  Like writing a custom cookie based user authentication app that WebGUI would be able to use.
23:05 < perlm> crythias, you are fast, I was just installing mod_perl-devel in the hope it contained those libs.
23:05 <@preaction> i've heard JT wants to redo the entire auth system, that's how much he hates it
23:05 <@preaction> i haven't dived into those parts yet
23:06 < perlm> Fedora Core 6
23:06 <+crythias> 'kay, cause I just wanted to know...
23:07 < perlm> The PerlCast JT did completely sold me on WebGUI.  If it works out, I'm hoping to move my entire center over to it in the next year.  Heck, maybe I can start writing in Plainblack support into grant proposals :P
23:08  * crythias just nods
23:08 <+crythias> well, it's been wild.
23:08 < perlm> Watching a long XS build go is worse than watching someone roll dice that you just bet $10,000 on.
23:20 < perlm> Core 6 as apreq2 in the repos.  
23:20 < perlm> s/as/has/
23:20 <@preaction> umm... oops?
23:21 < perlm> yeah....I didn't know apreq2 was shorthand for apache2::request and apach2|request weren't in the package summary.
23:25 < perlm> Okay, I'm onto the configuration of conf files......thanks a million for the install help!
23:25 <@preaction> np
--- Day changed Sun Nov 05 2006
00:02 < perlm> I'm trying to work through this http://www.plainblack.com/installing_webgui but it appears out of order.  For instance, when I try to start spectre, it is obviously looking at the webgui.conf file which I was never told to alter (I created a mydomain.conf).
00:03 < perlm> n/m, I shouldn't have had a WebGUI.conf at all.
00:16 < perlm> I wonder why in the demo when I turn admin on, I get the admin console on the left, but in my new install when I turn admin on, I don't get the install console....strange.
00:16 < perlm> probably have some path messed up somewhere.
00:23 < perlm> Unless I did something wrong, the instructions need to be updated so that when the directory "uploads" is being moved into the instance directory, "extras" is included.
00:23 <@preaction> yeah, extras needs to be included
00:23 <@preaction> let me update that right away so i dont' forget
00:24 < perlm> I can't believe it is running on my home box......all I need is to get it going on 443 and I'm golden!
00:25 < perlm> This could be a whole new way of doing webdev, with a super slick pre-canned front end.
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16:59 < perlm> I wonder if running WebGUI in a named virtual host will confuse Spectre.  I have my domainA on :80 and domainB-virtual also on 80.  How does Spectre get connected to the correct one?
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03:24 < perlm> Hello everyone.
03:27 <@preaction> perlm, spectre shouldn't get confused, it uses the first entry in the SiteName configuration array
03:27  * preaction & shower and edgy install
03:31 < perlm> Yes, spectre has never been a problem.  Trying to put WebGUI in an SSL enabled virtualhost is what took all my time.  But now that it is working, I'm really impressed.
03:32 < perlm> The people at work tomorrow are going to flip when I show them what we'll be able to do without me writing 1 line of code.
03:35 < Radix-wrk> mornin'
03:37 <+crythias>  kewl beanses
03:41 < perlm> I'm guessing people here are part of or closely aligned with Plain Black?  Does anyone know if PB hosting services can assure data security to an IRB looking over our research grant?  We require absolute anomynity.
03:41 < perlm> bbl, hope someone answers :)
03:42 < Radix-wrk> I found the same thing perlm - though I found here that just meant that their expectations went higher - and ended up coding templates, teaching everyone how to get the best out of webgui.. problem solving and learning javascript/html to solve problems that webgui didn't do ;)
03:42 < Radix-wrk> Only preaction and snapcount are PB employees here I think.
03:45 <+crythias> yeah. I don't rank
03:45 <+crythias> I'm just a guy
03:47 < Radix-wrk> I'm in charge of the webgui site at my company so figure if I idle here I might be able to pick up a bit of knowledge about it on the odd occasion.. or help someone with the knowledge i do have :)
03:48 < Radix-wrk> It'd be nice if we had a bigger irc community.. but we're slowly growing..
03:49 <+crythias> yeah.. if all of us have 2 logins... why, we could be like  people... oh.
03:49 <+crythias> 10
03:49 <+crythias> people
03:50 < Radix-wrk> heh
03:50 < Radix-wrk> now now crythias ;)
03:51 <@preaction> like the poor head of a boy with a pituitary disorder, my army is slowly growing larger!
03:54 < Radix-wrk> Well at least we've got two PB employees on here now.. when I first joined I was lucky to see one!
03:56 <@preaction> this is what crythias means by "doesn't rank" :p he's got a whole long interview about him on pb.com
03:59 <@preaction> hell, the reason I'M here is to learn from the users. 5 weeks working with WebGUI does not an expert make
03:59 <@preaction> drake keeps telling us about our "truck number", if JT got hit by a truck right now, the rest of plainblack would be panicking
04:00  * preaction & edgy install for real this time
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06:39 < perlm> Anyone have any idea how much Plain Black charges for template designs?
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07:10 < perlm> Can someone else change a page layout to "Left Column" and see if ^RawHeadTags(); shows up?  
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17:22 <@preaction> good morning everyone!
17:23 -!- preaction changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI (stable: WebGUI 7.1.3) || Need help? Ask and wait patiently (it might take awhile) || The Support Boards are open! Your operator is: preaction
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19:12 < perlm> I just don't understand.  I feel like I've really explored WebGUI from the CMS side (still checking out the API), but this appears light years ahead of commercial products like Novells.  Why do I get the feeling WebGUI doesn't have very deep market penetration?
19:13 <@preaction> because it's free software backed by a company that doesn't have millions to spend on marketing, nor dozens of people to spend on development?
19:14 <@preaction> up until last month, the dev team consisted of four programmers and one designer
19:14 <@preaction> now there's six
19:14 <@preaction> programmers, i mean
19:14 <@preaction> plus the community regulars, there's 4-5 i see often
19:15 < perlm> The last place I worked at spent ~$300K on consultants getting Novell's CMS tool configured.  And to this day it is a buggy unscalable POS that causes them no end of pain.
19:15 <@preaction> ... wow
19:16 < perlm> Sounds like JT needs to hiring a marketing firm.
19:16 <@preaction> i couldn't tell you the figures, but AMLA is getting two weeks of priority bugfixes to make their site completely 100% awesome, and i can guarantee it's less than 50K, probably less than 10K, hell, probably a lot less
19:16 <@preaction> we're loaded as it is :P
19:17 <@preaction> i'm on the support forums today, but otherwise roy's been pulling 60+ hour weeks, i anticipate i'll be doing the same for a couple weeks to get this EventCalendar rebuild released
19:18 <@preaction> today i get to relax, fix some bugs, chat on IRC
19:20 < perlm> loaded for work or loaded for an income stream?
19:20 < perlm> or both :D
19:20 <@preaction> work
19:20 <@preaction> income stream is none of my business, and i'm happier that way
19:21 <@preaction> my paycheque comes in, i work my little code-monkey buns off
19:23 < perlm> sounds like exciting times
19:23 <@preaction> if they'd just sign off on the durned technical specification i could get to real work
19:23 <@preaction> and tomorrow we're having a bugfix day at JT's house
19:24 <@preaction> should be good times
19:31 < perlm> man, that is how you make a living?  going to the boss's house for code parties?  I'm frak'n green over here.
19:33 <@preaction> likewise with the newbness here, this is my third week in my first "real" programming job
19:33 <@preaction> freelancing doesn't count when you're working full-time at walmart
19:36 < perlm> Even if they only pay you with fritos and coke, you might have one of the coolest jobs out there.
19:36 <@preaction> bah. i keep forgetting ubuntu doesn't install build-essential by default
19:37 <@preaction> i love it, except for the not understanding a damned thing part
19:37 <@preaction> i mean, i know Perl, i know CSS, etc... but WebGUI is mammoth
19:37 <@preaction> if JT was hit by a truck, the entire company would be in deep mekrob
19:37 < diakopter> nah
19:38 < perlm> yeah, I just started exploring it 4 years since I first looked at it, and it is incredibely complex
19:39 < diakopter> preaction: depends on the type of truck.
19:39 <@preaction> one of my goals is to tone down the complexity, but i doubt that will happen.
19:40 < diakopter> preaction: what bug are you currently working on?
19:40 <@preaction> AMLA had some bugs in the commerce system, which is getting overhauled for the 8.x series, but i'm fixing this stuff now
19:41 <@preaction> trying to get Apache2::Reload working so i don't have to restart apache a billion times
19:41 <@preaction> and why didn't CPAN notice that i didn't even have make installed?
19:42 < perlm> but exactly what I've been looking for.  The CMS gets sites up and running with minimal design work on my part, and the API is a well structured framework.  What's not to love?
19:43 <@preaction> the one thing that irks me is how the session instance is handled. it gets referenced in almost every single object
19:43 <@preaction> it's also very very large
19:43 < perlm> I wonder if I could put together a Fedora rpm for the repos.  All the libs that require building are in the repos, and everything else was easily found in CPAN.
19:44 < diakopter> preaction: what's wrong with it being large?  It's never duplicated?
19:44 <@preaction> perlm, i was thinking the same thing for ubuntu, but then there's the WRE
19:45 <@preaction> diakopter, which is true, it's a personal preference of mine. it seems inelegant
19:45 < perlm> WRE?  That is great for people who don't know systems, but I like to *know* what's going on under the hood.
19:45 < perlm> as long s the keyword "keys" never appears in OO perl, size and speed are not issues.
19:46 <@preaction> i'm a minimalist at heart, WebGUI can't be minimalist, because the target audience are normal Joe Users
19:47 < diakopter> when's the wiki asset going to make it to svn?
19:47 <@preaction> plus, i'm not privy to the information on why certain things had to happen, so there are still things i don't understand
19:48 <@preaction> that's a durn good question
19:48 <@preaction> snapcount, roy, you got info?
19:48 <@preaction> JT took over devel on it, he might know
19:52 <@preaction> the wiki will make support so much easier, and better documentation
19:52 <@preaction> i believe our tech writer started today too, so that should help the docs
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20:09 < perlm> tech writer?  You must be doing well if you can afford to hire a tech writer.
20:18 <@preaction> or we anticipate doing good in the future with the new contracts
21:17 <+crythias> :)
21:18  * crythias could have attempted tech writing, but never ft
21:22 <@preaction> i can write good docs, but i could never just write docs. i need to code
21:23 <@preaction> i'm always paranoid that people won't understand my docs, but code is code
21:34 <@preaction> anyone here know if something major changed for Template assets between 6.2 and 6.8?
21:35 < perlm> Security tabs not showing up for users in Admin group?
21:35 <+crythias> yeah, lots. try.. um.. version history
21:37 <+crythias> my faq has more info.
21:38 <+crythias> http://www.gwy2.org/fomfiles/cache/52.html
21:38 <@preaction> i mean more to the structure of the Templates table. there's apparently a problem migrating 6.2 CS templates to 7.1.3, and it has to do with something that changed from then to 6.8
21:38 <+crythias> Yeah. no Navigation
21:39 <+crythias> everything got changed to AssetProxy
21:40 <@preaction> remind me to thoroughly bitch these people out for staying back at 6.2 for this long and expecting everything to just work when migrating...
21:41 <@preaction> seems there's a gotcha specifically for Collaboration system templates in 6.3
21:41 <+crythias> mm.. yeah. and I lost lotsa collab stuff
21:49 < perlm> Strange that Admin, who defaults to admin group and a guru level, can't see the security tabs.
21:50 < perlm> strike that as Admin works fine.  just another user error.
21:51 < perlm> Which sounds easier, a macro that changes a users group, or a Paypal asset?
21:52 <@preaction> why a macro?
21:52 <@preaction> Paypal asset? you can't implement it as a WebGUI::Commerce::Payment?
21:53 < perlm> I guess I should look at the API before I go off half-cocked re-inventing the wheel.
21:55 <@preaction> probably
21:55 <@preaction> users can have more than one group, just add them
21:55 <+crythias> um. macro that changes a user's group is easy.
21:55 <+crythias> what preaction said is more relevant.
21:56 <+crythias> I don't get the existing "Add me to a group" macro.
21:56 < perlm> The macro would be for after a data form has been successfully completed, they would be added to a new group giving them access to new page layouts + assets.
21:56 <+crythias> give them the url
21:56 <+crythias> there's already an add me to a group macro
21:58 <+crythias> http://www.plainblack.com/using_webgui?op=viewHelp;hid=group%20add;namespace=Macro_GroupAdd
22:00 < perlm> Very cool, but the user should have completed a data entry form before they can be added.  So the validation of the data form could also add the user to the new group.
22:00 <+crythias> then again, the datafor result screen could have a "Click here" (groupadd macro) when finished reading the dataform successful page.
22:01 <@preaction> perlm, so put the macro on the successful completion template, and they'll get added
22:01 <+crythias> well, they still have to click the link.
22:02 < perlm> Nice
22:15 <@snapcount> did someone say something to me?
22:16 <@snapcount> preaction perhaps?
22:42 <+crythias> you were mentioned in a list ...
23:03 <@snapcount> and here I was thinking I was special
23:03 <@snapcount> sheesh
23:46 <@preaction> you are speshul, short-bus speshul
23:46 <@preaction> but ... maybe... you wouldn't happen to know what's up with the Wiki asset would you?
23:50 <+crythias> heh. short-bus special.
23:57 < perlm> I'm curious as to how something like a Wiki asset gets decided.  With apps like MediaWiki, it would seem like building interfaces to them would also be a good idea.
23:57 <+crythias> well, there's a deal.
23:57 <+crythias> see, wiki is weird.
23:58 <+crythias> I'm rather incensed that there has to be always a "new" way to do what already is done.
23:58 <+crythias> but wiki in WebGUI adds some complications as to how WikiWords (if implemented) will be handled.
23:59 <+crythias> but we've discussed that ...
23:59 <+crythias> http://www.plainblack.com/mods/what-is-a-wiki
--- Day changed Tue Nov 07 2006
00:00 <+crythias> http://www.plainblack.com/mods/twiki_or_usemodwiki#v5uY0G-uS_ZjdPTfitUQ1g
00:00 < perlm> reading now
00:00 <+crythias> http://www.plainblack.com/etcetera/discuss-how-would-you-want-a-wiki-implemented-in-webgui
00:03 <+crythias> http://www.plainblack.com/news/news/first-webgui-7-beta-released-6.99.0/1 "Added a wiki-like feature that will automatically bring a user to the create a page form if they are in admin mode, and click on a link to a page that doesn't exist yet."
00:04 <+crythias> http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/dev/forums/smoke-tests/smoke-test-results1111111111111 (wiki stuff)
00:05 <+crythias> no wiki failed since 10/16/06
00:07 <@preaction> doesn't look like there even is a wiki in the smoke tests
00:07 <+crythias> 10/14 10/15 10/16 had label issues
00:08 <@preaction> oh, duh, at the bottom there
00:09 <+crythias> "My computer won't turn on" "Did you talk nice to it?"
00:10 < perlm> I'm trying to create an HTTP::Proxy Asset to connect to my MediaWiki page and having no luck.
00:10 <+crythias> hm..
00:10 < perlm> My sites can only be accessed via ssl, so that is probably the issue.
00:11 < perlm> Nope, I just proxied my WebGUI site with ssl no problem.
00:12 <+crythias> gtg ttyl
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00:25 < perlm> Hmm.  I got the proxy working for my wiki.  I would either have to have a custom wiki proxy asset to manage userid's and pwd's for the auto-login or else have both sites use LDAP and just pass along the uid/pwd.
01:01 <@preaction> was there ever any talk about implementing everything possible in WebGUI as an Asset?
01:01 <@preaction> Operations as Assets, Auth as Assets, Products as Assets, etc...
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04:39 < Radix-Work> lol - Someone's not a happy chappy - "I started this thread more than three years ago.  I do not even work at the same company any more nor do I use WebGui any longer.  Lets let it die."
04:40 <@preaction> whoa
04:40 < Radix-Work> http://www.plainblack.com/etcetera/using_collateral_image_in_style/4#idaWMnIR3raUfiSM_F8490oA
04:42 < Radix-Work> poor guy.. posted in 2003, and never got an answer until someone asked the same question in response to his thread recently.  I responded and now he's annoyed because he finally got a response.
04:46 <@snapcount> I'd be mad too if a group of people spent thousands of hours writing software, gave it away for free, and didn't take the time to answer my questions for free =)
04:47 <@snapcount> I'll never understand why people undervalue FOSS but have expectations for it that rival every piece of closed source software on the planet
04:49 <@preaction> perlbot hubris
04:49 < perlbot> Excessive pride, the sort of thing Zeus zaps you for. Also the quality that makes you write (and maintain) programs that other people won't want to say bad things about. [Also, the thing that makes you write programs to do something that's already been done, because you believe you can do it better --- Wim.] Hence, the third great virtue of a programmer.
08:01 <@snapcount> perlbot perl
08:01 < perlbot> It's Perl (for the language) or perl (for the interpreter) but NEVER PERL!
08:01 <@snapcount> perlbot epoch
08:02 <@preaction> perlbot bbif
08:02 <@preaction> perlbot keywords
08:02 < perlbot> Check out all the things I know: http://www.chrisangell.com/cgi-bin/botkeywords.cgi Don't want to see the port and country TLD facts? http://chrisangell.com/cgi-bin/botkeywords.cgi?noports=1&nocountries=1
08:03 <@preaction> perlbot help
08:03 < perlbot> (fact)::tell (who) about (what)::(what) > (who)::learn (what) as (info)::relearn (fact) as (info)::phone (phone number)::shorten (url)::shorten it::search (module)::docs (module)::perldoc -f (function)::jargon (term)::math::fortune::flip::host (type) (record)::rot13::roll (die)::tempconv (temp)::scramble (foo)::8ball::slap::diss::what time is it::top/bottom (number) karma::geoip (ip)
08:04 <@preaction> phone 9205791030
08:06 <@preaction> fortune
08:06 <@preaction> perlbot fortune
08:06 < perlbot> He who findeth sensuous pleasures in the bodies of lush, hot, pink damsels is not righteous, but he can have a lot more fun. 
08:06 <@preaction> perlbot fortune
08:06 < perlbot> Physicists do it with charm. 
08:07 < Radix-Work> perlbot fortune
08:07 < perlbot> War is menstruation envy. 
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08:19 < Radix-Work> perlbot learn Lotto as Lotto is a tax for people who can't do math.
08:19 < perlbot> added Lotto to the database
08:19 < Radix-Work> perlbot lotto
08:19 < perlbot> Lotto is a tax for people who can't do math.
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10:16 <@preaction> perlbot doesn't work
10:16 < perlbot> What do you mean it doesn't work?  What happens when you try to run it?  What's the output?  What's the error message?  What did you expect to happen?  We need more information to help you.
10:16 <@preaction> perlbot it doesn't work
10:16 < perlbot> Look buddy, doesn't work is a strong statement.  Does it sit on the couch all day?  Does it want more money?  Is it on IRC all the time? Be specific!  Examples of what doesn't work (or the URL) tend to help too, or pastebin the code
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15:57 < ckotil> Has anyone created a google sitemap of their webgui site?
15:57 < ckotil> http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=34606
16:35 < Radix_> ckotil, I did.. and I used webgui to generate the sitemap file too
16:36 < Radix_> but since switching to the wre I haven't installed python again and haven't got it going again
16:36 < Radix_> it's on my list of todo's.
16:38 < Radix_> I used the text file method - you can use a snippet with an assetproxy to a navigation object with a blank template - and return mime type text.
16:38 < Radix_> then use their sitemap_gen.py script
17:03 < ckotil> what are the settings for the navigation asset? start at root, navigate down to infinity?
17:03 < Radix_> I think that's what I used yeah
17:04 < ckotil> awesome. thanks
17:04 < Radix_> np :)
17:04 < ckotil> i thought about doing it that way, but i figured i had to whip up a template to output the XML
17:04 < ckotil> so i tried the python script, but couldnt get a working config.xml file
17:05 < Radix_> nah.. snippets and assetproxy combo's are great like that
17:05 < ckotil> ya, ive used them a few times in my site.
17:05 < ckotil> which is FINALLY going live tomorrow. thats when the DNS is scheduled to change
17:05 < Radix_> woot.. congrats :)
17:05 < ckotil> thanks.
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18:39 < ckotil> is there a way for me to find out what is causing this workflow error?
18:39 < ckotil> 2006/11/06 23:35:27 - ERROR - spectre.conf - Spectre::Workflow::suspendInstance[387] - WORKFLOW: Workflow instance HMwVOhVuAtM9yEYNrVR6qw has failed to execute 5 times in a row and will no longer attempt to execute.
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19:08 <+perlDreamer> hey guys, a quick reminder
19:08 <+perlDreamer> please rerun the test suite after making changes to core code
19:08 <+perlDreamer> over the last week, most of the Macro tests have been broken
19:08 <+perlDreamer> the Session/Scratch test was broken last night
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19:15 < Hawkaloogie> PARTY AT JT's HOUSE
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22:26 < ckotil> why does the rebuildLineage.pl script fail at? Cleaning up...OK
22:26 < ckotil> Don't forget to clear your cache.
22:26 < ckotil> DBI connect('webgui;host=127.0.0.1','webgui',...) failed: (no error string) at ../lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm line 318
22:27 < ckotil> well i know how to fix it. but i dunno why the parameters dont get passed properly
22:27 < ckotil> i have to set...
22:27 < ckotil>         my $dsn = shift;
22:27 < ckotil>         my $user = shift;
22:27 < ckotil>         my $pass = shift;
22:27 < ckotil> to the real values.
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22:43 < perlm> How's the bug stomping going, Preaction?
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--- Day changed Wed Nov 08 2006
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01:20 < perlm> I'm trying to lay out a preliminary architecture for an application based on WebGUI.  How do you have the user interact with one asset on a page layout and have the results show up in another asset, in that same page layout, preferrabely with AJAX?  Just an idea of the parts of WebGUI which would do this is all I'm asking for.
01:24 < perlm> Is there some sort of event handler?  A message handler?
01:25 < perlm> Or does all asset communication have to be custom developed or through the DB?
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01:27 < Radix_> perlm: you can use scratch variables for that purpose
01:35 < perlm> But there is no Javascript messaging system where one asset can tell another to update itself via an Ajax request?
01:37 < Radix_> no idea sorry
02:06 < perlm> Can anyone remember off the top of their head a Macro that interacts with the Session object I can use as example code?
02:07 < perlm> Nevermind, it appears most of them do :)
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03:13 < perlm> I've learned two things.  The session object is not an inside-out object, and from a macro, I have no idea how to gain access to an asset not from the Macro asset (and I can't find any accessor methods in the docs).
03:16 < perlm> $session->asset->getId(); # returns an idea different from the Article Asset ID from the Properties page.
03:16 < perlm> s/idea/id/
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04:09 < Radix-wrk> wow.. we're up to 10 people in this channel (excluding 2 dupes)
04:12 <+crythia1> oopsies
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06:26 <+perlDreamer> anybody awake tonight?
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08:31 <@preaction> ckotil, enact.sonoma.edu?
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17:19 < perlm> In a Macro, can you use the session object to access a reference to an asset besides the one the macro was inside of?
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22:46 <+crythias> ain't no sunshine when she's gone... 
--- Day changed Thu Nov 09 2006
00:20 <@preaction> after 6 hours of dealing with the Beaurocracy, I finally get to do some work
00:20 <+crythias> mmkay
00:20 <+crythias> heh.
00:20 <+crythias> I just found out I could get an iMac for $55
00:21 <+crythias> oops
00:21 <+crythias> Google sends out kama sutra worm
00:28 <@preaction> iMac like the desktopp one? the little cute thing?
00:28 <+crythias> yeah the old one
00:30 <+crythias> http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?InvtId=IM333-RAS-1B&cm_mmc=Froogle-_-DesktopComputers-_-Apple/MacintoshComputers-_-IM333-RAS-1B
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02:21 <@preaction> snapcount, remember what I said about the secret admirers? Frank's got one bad ;)
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02:22 <@snapcount> is it a hot chick?
02:23 <@preaction> no, it's a Mac OSX junky
02:23 <@preaction> i mean, they're never hot
02:23 <@preaction> look at JT
02:23  * preaction & back to tedious technical writing
02:23 <+crythia1> and that guy from the fly
02:26 <+crythia1> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000156/
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03:38  * DONBH8N ME.
03:38 <+DONBH8N> hrm
03:38 <+DONBH8N> wonderfulness
03:38 < Radix-wrk> ?
03:39 <+DONBH8N> I can't believe it's not butter.
03:39 <+DONBH8N> No, really.
03:39 < Radix-wrk> its not.. it's irc
03:39 <+DONBH8N> I'm soaking in it.
03:39 <+DONBH8N> two great tastes that taste great together.
03:39 <+DONBH8N> By Whamo.
03:40 <+DONBH8N> Think Different.
03:40 <+DONBH8N> good to the last drop.
03:40 < Radix-wrk> Don't worry.. there are some men with white coats ready to take you away to your new room.
03:40 <+DONBH8N> the quicker picker upper.
03:41 <+DONBH8N> It's the economy, stupid.
03:41 <+DONBH8N> I'll buy that for a dollar.
03:42 <+DONBH8N> Believe it!
03:42 <+DONBH8N> It's what's for dinner.
03:43 <+DONBH8N> Always.
03:44 < Radix-wrk> preaction/snapcount: PB website is broken ;) - "^AssetProxy(pb-redesign-2006/nav);"
03:45 <+DONBH8N> yeah, it's bug'd at least twice.
03:45 < Radix-wrk> http://www.plainblack.com/install/upgrade_help
03:45 < Radix-wrk> looks like the collaboration object style is different from the parent page
03:46 <+DONBH8N> just.. why is not support contract a link on the um... support page?
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06:50 < perlm> Say I've got a data entry asset on a page layout and depending on what the user submits in that asset, I want an article asset with a macro in it to display data based on the submission from the data asset.  How does the Macro know the submitted data from the data asset?  Does the session object have it?  Through the DB?
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07:45 < Hawkaloogie> damnit, you have to stay longer than 6 minutes...
08:01 < Radix-wrk> I'd love to know the answer myself.. only way I know of is using scratch variables
08:02 < Radix-wrk> perlbot help
08:02 < perlbot> (fact)::tell (who) about (what)::(what) > (who)::learn (what) as (info)::relearn (fact) as (info)::phone (phone number)::shorten (url)::shorten it::search (module)::docs (module)::perldoc -f (function)::jargon (term)::math::fortune::flip::host (type) (record)::rot13::roll (die)::tempconv (temp)::scramble (foo)::8ball::slap::diss::what time is it::top/bottom (number) karma::geoip (ip)
08:03 < Radix-wrk> Hmm.. perlbot needs a greet function.. then you could leave him his answer when he next logs in :)
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08:46 <@preaction> you could use a scratch variable, you could put a DataForm field containing the user's name (or the user's session, or whatever)
08:46 <@preaction> a user profile field even?
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09:47 < Radix-wrk> ahh.. neat.. hadnt thought of those
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12:16 < maxscience> hi
12:16 < maxscience> I need help :)
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12:46 < Radix_> ask.. and wait
12:46 < Radix_> we're all on diff time zones here.. so you may have to wait a bit.. but be patient and ye will be rewarded ;)
13:21 < maxscience> :P
13:22 < maxscience> http://www.plainblack.com/install/upgrade_help/errors-upgrading-from-7_1_3-to-7_2_0
13:22 < maxscience> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/errors-upgrading-from-7_1_3
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16:28 < Radix_> maxscience, Sorry.. not done an upgrade to 7.13 yet, let alone 7.20 - waiting for it to all stabilise first before I upgrade our server here
16:28 < maxscience> :(
16:29 < maxscience> But do you know how to manually force missing parts of the upgrade to rerun?
16:29 < Radix_> safer to roll back and redo it
16:30 < Radix_> try manually rm -rf /tmp/WebGUICache first
16:30 < maxscience> I manually copied the backed up WebGUI dir over the new one and rerun the update. But it said no updates were necessary
16:30 < Radix_> Personally though.. I'd wait until 7.2 goes stable again.. and not bother until then
16:30 < Radix_> err.. you need to restore the database too
16:31 < Radix_> or did you copy the entire /data dir?
16:31 < maxscience> yeah! But till now I supposed that the webguiupdate script of the WRE did also backup the database...
16:31 < maxscience> it doesn't?
16:31 < maxscience> no I just copied the WebGUI dir
16:31 < Radix_> that doesn't include the database then
16:32 < Radix_> the database is in /data/wre/prereqs/mysql
16:32 < Radix_> ideally you should have a mysqldump of it as well as your /data/ dir backup
16:32 < maxscience> yeah I know but I didn't manually backup the database because I thought webguiupdate script did it
16:32 < Radix_> it does.. but I forget offhand where it puts it..
16:33 < maxscience> mmh :( When it ask where to backup, it's /data/wre/var
16:34 < Radix_> I've never relied on the webgui update backup.. always done my own
16:36 < Radix_> it stores them in /tmp/backups
16:36 < Radix_> unless you specify another dir to put them in
16:37 < Radix_> well.. that's the perl upgrade script anyway.. the wre backup is stored where you specify it
16:37 < maxscience> and the wre backup does mysql backups too?
16:38 < Radix_> the wre update script only seems to copy the /data/WebGUI/etc dir to the dir you specify
16:38 < Radix_> it runs the normal perl upgrade script tho.. so it should've made db backups in /tmp/backups
16:39 < Radix_> of course if you've rebooted since.. your /tmp dir may have been wiped clean already
16:39 < maxscience> no it's there hopefully! mydomain_com_7.1.3.sql
16:40 < Radix_> cool :)
16:40 < Radix_> restore that sql then.. and hopefully you'll get your old db back
16:40 < maxscience> so now I just have to drop the actual mysql db and reload it with the .sql file?
16:40 < Radix_> that's what I'd do.. it might drop them automatically in the sql file tho
16:41 < maxscience> ok thx :)
16:41 < Radix_> np
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17:25 <@preaction> 7.2.1 should be more stable than 7.1.3, and the attitude of "i'll update when it's stable" hurts stability, because it won't get run on a whole bunch of different system until it's "stable", and it won't be stable until it can run on a whole bunch of different systems
17:25 <@preaction> but the decision to tag "stable" is JT's, so we'll leave it to him
17:44 < ckotil> should i upgrade if im taking a site live tomorrow? currently on 7.1.3
17:54 <@preaction> it works now? if i were you i wouldn't. i'd Always (whether tagged "stable" or not) update the dev server and test before bringing live
17:54 <@preaction> if it works now, and you're releasing tomorrow, i'd wait, do the release, and then update the dev server and see how the latest goes with your site
17:55 <@preaction> basically every week, or every couple weeks, keep your dev server updated, then when you can, update production
17:56 <@preaction> you'll have to figure out a routine for moving the wG source and running the sbin/upgrade.pl script
18:09 < crythia3> grr
18:11 < crythia3> look, I [think I] understand linear upgrade path, but ... seriously? 20 bug fixes in a Beta doesn't inspire confidence.
18:12 < maxscience> indeed
18:13 < crythia3> I wonder what's a better business decision/model: dump whatever the heck or do custom programming for the people who want it/pay for it, and let the stable-users get.. oh, I don't know.. stable releases?
18:14 < crythia3> why the heck do we bother with beta releases? Why not simply tell people to get the latest svn nightly build?
18:27 < maxscience> a better decision model would just be to be nice to users reporting bugs and giving feedback instead than yelling at them... Those nerds need to go to the countryside a little bit lol
18:29 < ckotil> kthx
18:29 < ckotil> ill bring up the dev server to 7.2
18:29 < ckotil> ;]
18:31 < ckotil> most people know what a beta is. a small fraction know about nightly svn builds
18:38 < crythia3> and the difference to people who actually run WebGUI in production is...?
19:01 < maxscience> the result is that I have my install screwed up now...
19:19 < perlm> when you hit submit in one asset, is there anyway for another asset to see what was submitted via the API, or must the DB be checked?
19:44 < perlm> If I shouldn't be asking these questions here, would someone let me know?
19:44 < ckotil> this is good place to ask. it just takes time to get answers
19:45 < ckotil> plainblack support forum is goo dtoo
19:45 < ckotil> i just dont know the answer ;]
19:46 < perlm> thanks ckotil, I just didn't want it to be the case where everyone was quietly ignoring me hoping I'd go away.
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20:25 < jZed> hi, I am wanting to play with WebGui on my home debian etch box that already has a ton of perl / apache / mysl stuff ...
20:25 < jZed> can I install the WRE but leave my existing installs intact?
20:31 < perlm> I was under the impression that the WRE was a seperate Perl env.
20:31 < jZed> so maybe install debian on a different partition and put webgui there?
20:31 < perlm> But WebGUI doesn't interfer with your current install.  It may require additional CPAN modules, but you don't have to change Perl params.  
20:32 < perlm> the biggest problem you might have is with the virtual host settings in Apache.
20:32 < perlm> Luckily I have two domains pointing at my server and had WebGUI answer the surplus one.  But you can hax that by editing your /etc/hosts file.
20:33 < jZed> WRE won't mess with paths etc so it will use its own perl and @INC and I can keep using my other perl installs
20:33 < jZed> hmm, couldn't I just have my current apache on port 80 and stick the webgui apache on some other port?
20:33 < ckotil> yes
20:34 < perlm> I am not positive as I didn't install it.  I'm new to WebGUI myself, so can't really answer that.  
20:34 < ckotil> simply edit the webgui.conf file in/data/etc
20:34 < jZed> cool
20:34 < perlm> run two instances of apache?  sure, that would work to
20:35 < perlm> but virtual hosts are much more sexy
20:35 < jZed> ok, so as long as I have my configs right, I can put webgui in the same partition, and not have it interfere with either my current perl or apache setup?
20:35 < jZed> yeah, sure virtual hosts
20:40 < perlm> I'm running WebGUI on my server in a virtual host and it has zero effect on the many other webapps I'm also running.
20:41 < jZed> ok, that answers the apache side, what about perl, do you have multiple perls?
20:43 < jZed> .oO(I suppose from your nick, you do)
20:45 < jZed> webgui sounds like it scales, anyone know the heaviest-traffic / most complex site using it?
20:47 < jZed> the success stories on plainBlack seem to be small to medium sites
21:04 < perlm> it is mod_perl.  I imagine you'd be mem bound before you'd be CPU bound.  Which means you should know about SQUID :)
21:04 < perlm> I only have one instance of Perl (5.8.8) which everything shares happily.
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21:07 <@preaction> jZed, currently a place called DonorWare is running an slew of virtual hosts using wG on a server farm. they're using db caching, nfs mounts, and load balancers.
21:09 <@preaction> i believe they have a load sharing between two servers running about 10 sites + 9 ssl versions
21:09 <@preaction> i've watched, httpd only gets above 5% CPU load when it's restarting, otherwise a calm 2-3%
21:10 <@preaction> i don't know the specs on those boxen though
21:11 < perlm> WebGUI has an easy to use performance feature.  It will show you how long it took to render a page.  So you can do some testing of your own.  
21:12 < perlm> have multiple LWP bots traverse your site and track the page load time to get a metric.
21:12 <@preaction> there's a program called "siege" that can do that for you
21:12 < perlm> nice
21:13 < perlm> okay, I've got to head into the office for a meeting.  Laters
21:13 <@preaction> have fun
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21:21 < jZed> great, thanks for the pointer to DonorWare
21:22 < jZed> btw, I got a strong recommendation to use webgui from one of the top developers in Venezuela! so kudos.
21:28 <@preaction> it is the awesome, and as the newest developer hired by plainblack, i intend to make it more the awesome
21:29 <@preaction> plus with these more developers, roy can work less on support and more on making the awesome
21:32 < jZed> looks like a fantastic project
21:33 <@preaction> it is, i'm ecstatic that i'm getting paid to be a part of it ;)
21:33 < jZed> congrats!
21:33 <@preaction> there's the tedious crap, like trying to upgrade donorware since they INSIST on using the 6.2 and 6.8 versions :p
21:34 <@preaction> (so your 7.1 or 7.2 should be even faster than donorware's)
21:34 < jZed> nice, I won't need performance right away but I gotta know it will scale really big
21:35 < jZed> it looks fairly easy to make plugins too, that will be important
21:35 <@preaction> yes, there are provided skeletons, and the list of required methods is very small
21:36 <@preaction> something you might get tripped up on is the way wG implements content-chunking (apache bit-buckets) 
21:36 <@preaction> the prepareView / View / www_view methods
21:36 <@preaction> but that's what we're here for, the forums are there for, etc...
21:37 < jZed> yeah, community is the key
21:38 < jZed> in the past I've rolled my own with Mason but this looks like it provides more out of the box but is still extensible
21:39 < jZed> any reason it isn't on CPAN?
21:39 <@preaction> configuration handling is the biggest thing. it will draw, process, and provide accessors for whatever configuration you want
21:39 <@preaction> that's a good question actually, maybe because it's on sourceforge
21:40 < jZed> I have stuff on both (i.e. the same stuff on both)
21:41 <@preaction> maybe because there's already a slew of them on cpan? i dunno man
21:41 < jZed> I recommend it
21:41 <@preaction> maybe just lost in the shuffle
21:41 <@preaction> but it would be more publicity (and we seem to be getting a bunch these days)
21:42 < jZed> that way if I get involved my team and I can contribute plugins the standard CPAN way
21:42 <@preaction> maybe that's why: it takes the namespaces out of plainblack control
21:42 < jZed> but I'm just kibbitzing :-)
21:42 <@preaction> there's nothing, of course, preventing you from doing that...
21:42 <@preaction> hmm... i should write a post to the dev list about it
21:43 <@preaction> or maybe look through the archives, someone might've suggested it already
21:43 < jZed> you could do something like DBI does ... Tim assigns prefixes for DBD authors, only the assigned prefixes are guaranteed to work
21:43 <@preaction> DBIx and DBDx
21:43 <@preaction> i get it
21:43 <@preaction> WebGUIx
21:43 < jZed> yeah something like that
21:44 <@preaction> would make contributing custom stuff that much easier, the current plainblack site has contributions, none of which are newer than a few years
21:45 < jZed> I haven't looked, is the database stuff straight DBI or Class::DBI ror DBIx::Class?
21:45 < jZed> or your own?
21:45 <@preaction> it's a wrapper on DBI
21:46 <@preaction> WebGUI only support MySQL, so it's almost superfluous to use DBI
21:46 < jZed> does it provide db objects?
21:47 <@preaction> it's in there somewhere, if there's a well-documented accessor for it, dunno
21:47 <@preaction> might be a $wGsql->{_dbh} sort of thing
21:48 < jZed> no, I don't mean getting the database handle object, I mean objects for tables etc. ala Class::DBI
21:48 <@preaction> no, straight SQL / DBI stuff
21:48 <@preaction> you could use Class::DBI though
21:49 < jZed> personally, I'm a straight DBI guy but some of the other team prefer the Object wrappers/mappers
21:50 <@preaction> i prefer my own wrapper that provides generic get/set/find/delete methods (the find method is unbelievably complex, taken from DBIx::Abstract iirc)
21:50 <@preaction> but since most DBs are layed out with a key for each row, all you need are those four functions
21:51 < jZed> DBIx::Abstract++
21:51 <@preaction> indeed
21:51 <@preaction> admittedly: i have to do two calls for normal search functions, a find() and a get() (because find() only returns IDs)
21:52 <@preaction> but find() could be modified to accept a columns => parameter
21:52 <@preaction> anyway, that's in a past-life, when I wrote my own webapp framework
21:52 < jZed> yeah, or presumably we could subclass your Database.pm and roll our own
21:52 <@preaction> (which surprisingly is a lot like wG was in its infancy)
21:52 <@preaction> that also
21:52 <@preaction> you just increase your dependencies
21:53 < jZed> how are sessions handled? in the db or memcached?
21:53 <@preaction> i'm of the type who hates dependencies, even though wG currently has a whole lot of them
21:53 <@preaction> db
21:53 < jZed> yeah, I agree about dependencies
21:54 < jZed> but I'm gonna have some specific and heavy database needs
21:54 <@preaction> that's another thing i wanted to take a look at, opening sessions is currently the most costly operation wG does often
21:54 < jZed> we had problems with sessions data swamping the db previously
21:54 <@preaction> sometimes a single page load can cause three or four sessions to be opened (for various functions)
21:56 <@preaction> actually, i'm not sure about that. they might be cached somewhere
21:57 <@preaction> i mean, it's mod_perl, so we're technically stateful, so we can keep info like that in memory
21:57 <@preaction> maybe that's why Apache2::SizeLimit is a requirement, the session memory cache gets too large
22:00 < jZed> my CTO is asking about blogs, got a URL I can point hm to?
22:01 <@preaction> start a demo site from http://demo.plainblack.com, create a Collaboration System wobject, and choose the "Blog Layout" under Collaboration System Layout in the Display Tab
22:01 <@preaction> the collab system can do just about any forum-style, thread-like type of site
22:02 < jZed> cool, thanks
22:03 <@preaction> (or something like that, I'm not good with the off-the-cuff answers yet)
22:13 < jZed> ok, well we got lost in creating the collab thing, might want a screenshot of a blog on the site
22:14 < jZed> looks amazing though
22:15 < jZed> can't figure out how to display the blog once it's created, oh well I can muddle through ...
22:15 < jZed> oh there it is
22:18 <@preaction> i believe that new wobjects are hidden from navigation by default, that's on the display tab iirc
22:18 <@preaction> otherwise the navigation usually fills in new assets/wobjects automagically
22:19 < jZed> yeah, I found the display tab and then the new, and then remembered to scroll down on the news page :-)
22:20 < jZed> I'm better at designing these things than using 'em :-)
22:20 <@preaction> likewise
22:21 <@preaction> remember too, that your demo is active for 24 hours, but if you log out without committing the new collab system, your visitors wont see it
22:21 <@preaction> the committing version tags thing still throws me
22:21 < jZed> yeah I committed
22:21 <@preaction> http://tryruby.hobix.com/ <- why doesn't Perl have something awesome like this?
22:21  * preaction wants Perl6 in the worst possible way
22:22 < jZed> um, you could write that app in a one-liner in perl, it isn't on the web because it would be too easy for someone to shoot themselves in the foot :-)
22:23 <@preaction> nono, i meant more of the tutorial thing
22:23 <@preaction> the walk-through, interactive tutorial
22:23 < jZed> oh, haven't tried that
22:23 <@preaction> type "help" into it
22:23 <@preaction> it walks you through it
22:23 < jZed> oh, that *is* nice
22:29 <@preaction> a javascript frontend, with an ajax call to a perl interpreter
22:29 <@preaction> prebuilt module objects
22:29 <@preaction> hmm... something to put in my notebook of WONDERFUL IDEAS
22:35 < jZed> I'd use it
22:35 <@preaction> if i build it awesomely enough, it could be used for perl6 as well
22:35 <@preaction> but i have a whole EventsCalendar to rewrite first
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22:39 < jZed> you could write a webgui interactive demo for it (combine them $ and WONDERFUL IDEAS, best of both worlds)
22:40 <@preaction> that'd be flash, i can't develop flash because i can't afford it (and i run ubuntu, no good flash tools for linux yet)
22:40 < jZed> yep
22:41 <@preaction> but, wG and plainblack are active in the local perl communities, i'm sure one of their sites would like it, perhaps madmongers, or this new whyperl site i saw JT and steve discussing the other day
22:42 < jZed> you could add in some of the perlmonks chatterbox widgets like perldoc://function_name
22:42 < jZed> or cpan://module_name
22:42 <@preaction> this is getting to be some sort of new hotness site
22:43 <@preaction> nah, there's already annocpan
22:43 <@preaction> annocpan rules, and needs more contributers
22:44 <@preaction> in fact, to be honest, the entire perl website community needs to be updated for "WEB 2.0" (buzzword is hilariously ironic)
22:44 <@preaction> it's almost like Perl is an old-man's tool :(
22:44 < jZed> you're preaching to the choir, my last gig was 80% AJAX and 20% Perl
22:44 < jZed> JSON rules
22:45 <@preaction> i'm not hooked on JSON yet, why not yaml or something?
22:46 <@preaction> JSON is ... cranky... an extra , will set it off
22:46 < jZed> because your perl backend can send JSON to an AJAX callback and the callback has a JavaScript structure it can pour into a display widget wtihout messing with any decoding
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22:47 < jZed> you basically write all your JavaScript structures in perl
22:47 <@preaction> or you could use XML / XSL / and XPath
22:47 <@preaction> WebGUI has just started using Yui as a standard JS library, so there should be all sorts of fun things we can do with ajax and the like now
22:47 < jZed> no no no, then you have to do something with it to get it into JavaScript
22:47 <@preaction> okay, i get it now
22:48 < jZed> I mean, sure there are uses for XML but lots of stuff you don't need that step
22:48 <@preaction> you'd have to have a JS function that would use those DOM tools to get things
22:49 < jZed> no, suppose you have a JS display widget that expects an AOH, you create the AOH in perl, wrap it in JSON with one line and send it to the callback whch just hands it to the widget
22:49 < jZed> no parsing or DOM walking at all
22:50 <@preaction> exactly
22:50 <@preaction> i was saying that, instead of using json, you'd have to do what i said
22:50 <@preaction> which is more work
22:50 < jZed> ah, I see, right
22:52 <@preaction> anyway, seriously, i have to rewrite wG's events calendar (which currently is the suck) and I have 11 days to do it (but it will be completely the awesome)
22:52  * preaction & working
22:53 < jZed> excellent, I need that, if you want a tester, email me at jzucker@cpan.org
22:53 < jZed> thanks for all the info
22:53 <@preaction> np
22:54 <@preaction> i need to get my new server, so i can have a web-facing dev server again
22:54 <@preaction> no, no no, i must not IRC, i must not IM, i must WORK... good gravy i'm easily distracted
22:54 < jZed> same here, talk to you later
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23:44 < jZe1> do you folks have a bug-tracking system somewhere or should I file it here? 
23:47 < jZe1> this page http://www.plainblack.com/wre/installing says to decompress the binary but when you run /sbin/setup it asks "Please type the path to the file" : a) you should mention which file and b) it is expecting an compressed wre-version.tar.gz not an uncompressed one like in the docs
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--- Day changed Fri Nov 10 2006
00:00 <@preaction> rizen, durnit, now you got me curious...
00:08 <@rizen> sorry about that
00:09 <@rizen> is anyone actually here
00:09 <@rizen> or is everyone just squatting?
00:09 <@preaction> yes'm
00:10 <@preaction> i shouldn't be, i should be working
00:10 < jZe1> I'm an outsider in the middle of an install, if you folks wants some privacy I'll leave
00:10 <@preaction> nono, this is community place
00:10 < jZe1> thanks
00:10 <@preaction> i dunno why chanserv autoops me, the freenode way is usually ops only appear when something goes very wrong
00:11 <@preaction> and i think only roy and/or rizen have the real chanserv access
00:12 -!- jZe1 is now known as jZed
00:18 < jZed> when sbin/setup asks "Please type the path to the file" what file does it want?
00:18 <@preaction> that's a good question, lemme see
00:19 <@rizen> the full path to the webgui-x.x.x-stable.tar.gz
00:19 <@rizen> that you've supposedly already downloaded
00:19 <@rizen> because you chose not to get it from a mirror
00:19 < jZed> right, but in order to run sbin/setup, you've already unpacked the tar.gz
00:19 <@preaction> jZed, it doesn't have the WebGUI part, just the WRE
00:20 <@rizen> yes, the WRE and WebGUI are two seperate systems
00:20 < jZed> so it wants e.g /data/wre or /data/wre-version.tar.gz
00:20 <@rizen> the WRE doesn't come with WebGUI
00:20 <@rizen> no
00:20 <@rizen> it doesn't want the path to the WRE
00:20 <@rizen> it wants the path to WebGUI
00:20 <@preaction> jZed, no, it wants webgui-7.1.3-stable.tar.gz or whatever
00:20 <@rizen> rather a webgui tarball
00:22 < jZed> I went to the site, i clicked download, it sent me to wre-version.tar.gz
00:22 < jZed> neither it nor the install instructions refer to a webgui...tar.gz
00:23 <@rizen> since you arent' listening to what we've told you
00:23 <@rizen> then the best way i can help you is to tell you to start over
00:23 <@rizen> delete the /data/wre folder
00:23 <@rizen> decomrpress again
00:23 <@rizen> and when you run setup this time
00:23 <@rizen> just chose mirror
00:24 <@rizen> don't choose local
00:24 < jZed> ok, but I still don't see any webgui.tar.gz :-)
00:25 < jZed> thanks
00:26 <@rizen> forget it
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00:28 <@preaction> you'll download it when you choose "mirror"
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00:28 <@preaction> and the reason you have to delete / reinstall is because the setup script is borked. that's why the WRE is in the 0.* series
00:28 < jZed> no problem
00:29 <@preaction> the WRE is also completely JT's domain for now, the rest of us have too much on our plates with wG proper
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16:05 <+MrHairgrease> roy
16:06 <+MrHairgrease> or doug
16:06 <+MrHairgrease> are you guys there?
16:07 < Radix_> hi martin.. ain't heard from him in a while
16:08 < Radix_> last thing he said was about 14 hours ago
16:11 <+MrHairgrease> ah
16:11 <+MrHairgrease> that explains something =)
16:11 <+MrHairgrease> is anybody using the latest svn checkout?
16:12 <+MrHairgrease> or 7.2.1?
16:12 < Radix_> not me
16:12 <+MrHairgrease> ok
16:12 < Radix_> I was going to ask a question too..
16:12 <+MrHairgrease> the admin bar won't show up
16:12 <+MrHairgrease> so I wondering if it's broken
16:12 <+MrHairgrease> or if I'm just being dumb =)
16:12 <+MrHairgrease> what is it?
16:12 < Radix_> anyone using the rss syndication to show up flickr rss feeds? - it seems to stop after the first <p> section ends..
16:13 <+MrHairgrease> no
16:13 <+MrHairgrease> not me
16:13 < Radix_> might have to look at the code.. see if I can figure out why
16:13 <+MrHairgrease> do you have a url to the feed?
16:13 < Radix_> http://api.flickr.com/services/feeds/photos_public.gne?id=90355682@N00&format=rss_200
16:14 <+MrHairgrease> yeah that's the way to go =)
16:14 < Radix_> that's the one I'm using.. my photo collection :)
16:14 <+MrHairgrease> ok
16:14 <+MrHairgrease> I'll have a look later this day
16:14 < Radix_> it stops after 'posted a photo</p>' and never puts the photo
16:15 < Radix_> cool
16:15 <+MrHairgrease> It might be due to the fact that the xml parser also parses the html tags
16:15 <+MrHairgrease> i'm not sure
16:15 <+MrHairgrease> but I can imagine that it is something like that
16:16 < Radix_> yeah.. I suspect so too.. though I wouldn't know how to fix it if it was :)
16:16 <+MrHairgrease> me neither
16:17 <+MrHairgrease> I never looked at that code
16:17 <+MrHairgrease> If you can't fix it, just file a bug report =)
16:22 < Radix_> _strip_html($rss) - hmm.. that'd rip out all the img tags and what not.. bet that's what's doing it
16:26 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
16:26 <+MrHairgrease> it sounds like that anyway
16:27 < Radix_> yup
16:27 <+MrHairgrease> you could try to comment thet function
16:27 <+MrHairgrease> and check if it works
16:28 < Radix_> going to give it a try.. but not on our production server.. and I just wiped my laptop to play with windows vista (that was my test server).. hehe
16:28 <+MrHairgrease> that's a wise decission
16:29 <+MrHairgrease> =)
16:29 < Radix_> heh
16:34 <+MrHairgrease> ah fixed it
16:35 <+MrHairgrease> someone borked WebGUI::User 
16:57 < Radix_> okey.. grub restored, and ubuntu back up on my laptop.. time to give syndicatedcontent.pm a hack :)
17:06 < Radix_> Hmm.. if I rip that bit out.. then it keeps the html.. but spits it out as text in the feed.  converts all the < and > to &lt's and &gt's even
17:07 <+MrHairgrease> oh that sucks
17:08 <+MrHairgrease> I don't have time to look into it
17:08 <+MrHairgrease> sry
17:08 < Radix_> no probs :)
17:08 <+MrHairgrease> i know =)
17:08 < Radix_> I'll have a further play with it.. bout time I started hacking webgui more anyway
17:09 <+MrHairgrease> it's fun
17:09 <+MrHairgrease> you can win prizes with it =)
17:09  * MrHairgrease pats himeself on the back
17:09 < Radix_> heh
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17:39 <@snapcount> what is borked in wg::user?
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17:41 <+MrHairgrease> nothing special
17:41 <+MrHairgrease> check the latest rev in svn
17:42 <@snapcount> is it that IP restricting admin console thingy
17:45 <+MrHairgrease> yes
17:45 <+MrHairgrease> i didn't have the setting in my conf
17:45 <+MrHairgrease> and the admin bar errored
17:45 <@snapcount> the upgrade script should have put a default one there
17:45 <+MrHairgrease> it should
17:45 <@snapcount> hehe
17:46 <+MrHairgrease> but if you are running a dev environment
17:46 <@snapcount> WebGUI *should* do many things =)
17:46 <+MrHairgrease> that's true
17:46 <+MrHairgrease> most people won't notice it
17:46 <+MrHairgrease> but it's cleaner this way
17:47 <+MrHairgrease> the thing was that the setting was put in in the 7.14->7.20
17:47 <+MrHairgrease> but I updated 
17:47 <+MrHairgrease> did a previousVersion.sql
17:47 <+MrHairgrease> and upgraded essentially from 7.2.0 ->7.2.1
17:47 <+MrHairgrease> so it was never run on my env
17:47 <+MrHairgrease> well 
17:47 <+MrHairgrease> it doesn't matter that much
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18:21 < jZed> whaaaa! my apache-fu is not as strong as my perl-fu and I have run the WRE install perhaps 50 times in the last day and still get stumped at mod_perl failed to start, mod_proxy failed to start, Spectre failed to start :-(
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18:22 < jZed> hey, at least I got the WRE MySQL working
18:22 < jZed> I read some forum messages about people with the same problem but not solutions
18:23 < jZed> docs say to check /data/wre/prereqs/apache/logs but there is no such directory since (I believe) apache isn't starting so there are no logs
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18:30 < Radix_> only issue I've ever had with wre mysql was when permissions were not set
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18:30 < jZed> MySQL is working fine, it's mod_perl that won't start
18:30 < jZed> and I don't even know how to troubleshoot since there are no logs
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18:30 < Radix_> check logs in /data/wre/var
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18:31 < Radix_> well.. webgui log is there anyway
18:31 < jZed> yes, it's there and 0 bites since rc.webgui start failed
18:31 < jZed> bytes
18:31 < Radix_> other logs are in /data/wre/prereqs/apache/logs
18:31 < Radix_> try creating the dir if it doesn't exist
18:32 < Radix_> that might be why it's failing to run even
18:32 < jZed> aha! there is wremonitor.log
18:32 < jZed> it says bad hostname ':'
18:33 < jZed> so I guess the hostname is not being set
18:33 < jZed> I am just using localhost since this is my box and no DNS
18:33 < Radix_> wremonitor has always been pretty useless for me.. never used it.. still waiting on a newer wre with a fixed wremonitor myself.
18:34 < Radix_> edit /etc/hosts and add your hostnames there
18:34 < jZed> yeah, already did that as per the docs
18:34 < Radix_> ie. 127.0.0.1 localhost www.mycompany.com mycompany.com
18:34 < jZed> docs say dev.localhost.domain
18:35 < jZed> and wre setup seems to stick the dev. on there
18:35 < Radix_> wierd.. I don't recall that.. and my wre setup didn't
18:37 < jZed> well, hmm, now I get during setup ... Configuring WebGUI...
18:37 < jZed> Use of uninitialized value in subroutine entry at ./setup line 159.
18:37 < jZed> Bad arg length for Socket::inet_ntoa, length is 0, should be 4 at ./setup line 159.
18:37 < jZed> btw, thanks much for your help
18:38 < Radix_> type 'which perl'
18:39 < Radix_> is it returning the /data/wre/prereqs/perl one?  or another copy of perl somewhere?
18:39 < jZed> the script should be, my command line is for another perl
18:39 < jZed> yeah the script shebang points at the WRE perl
18:40 < jZed> I've verified that thought they're both 5.8.8 only the wre one has the wre @INCS
18:40 < Radix_> if you don't set up your environment right though - it won't use the wre perl libraries properly
18:41 < Radix_> hence why I asked you to type 'which perl'
18:41 < jZed> which perl is /usr/local/bin/perl
18:41 < Radix_> the wre is far from perfect.. if you use it right it's great, but there are still bugs and gaps
18:42 < Radix_> biggest one is that not all the scripts set their environment properly
18:42 < jZed> yeah and it would be cleaner if I had an extra partition instead of trying to install where I already have perls, mysql, apache, etc
18:42 < Radix_> best way to fix this is to use ". /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment" before you run ANY wre scripts
18:42 < Radix_> it's the only way you can be sure they'll run right
18:42 < jZed> ah, ok, let me try that, thanks
18:42 < Radix_> note that the space between the dot and the path is deliberate
18:43 < Radix_> . /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment
18:43 < jZed> of course it will probably screw up my mason, python, and php stuff, oh well
18:43 < Radix_> no, shouldn't
18:43 < jZed> oh good :-)
18:43 < Radix_> except any other copy of apache you'll need to run on another port address (other than 80/81)
18:44 <+crythias> well..
18:44 <+crythias> you don't have to.
18:44 <+crythias> I mean, yes, you do..
18:44 < Radix_> ?
18:44 <+crythias> but you can virtualhost lots of stuff...
18:45 <+crythias> different configs per site.
18:45 < Radix_> yeah, but getting php working for the wre is a bitch
18:45 <+crythias> oh.
18:45 <+crythias> :(
18:45 < Radix_> pardon my french
18:45 <+crythias> bummer.
18:45 < Radix_> mod_php is not included in the distro
18:45 <+crythias> I never tried.
18:45 < jZed> I think I'll try to get webgui working then later I can import parts of my old apache conf into it
18:45 < Radix_> so you need to compile it manually
18:46 < jZed> bleh, I think I'll stick with two apaches on two ports
18:46 < Radix_> easier to simply run another apache with mod_php on another port and mod_proxy it in
18:46 < Radix_> you can use the wre mod_proxy to link to it.. and mod-rewrite rules to transparently hide it all so it seems like it's all on one server
18:47 < jZed> hrm, did the setenvironment thing, still getting Use of uninitialized value in subroutine entry at ./setup line 159.
18:47 < jZed> Bad arg length for Socket::inet_ntoa, length is 0, should be 4 at ./setup line 159.
18:47 < jZed> line 159 is looking for gethostname()
18:47 < Radix_> you didn't script up your localhost entry in /etc/hosts when you edited it by any chance?
18:48 < jZed> no, but hostname reports a different name
18:48 < jZed> maybe that's it
18:48 < Radix_> hostname must be in /etc/hosts
18:49 < jZed> can I re-load /etc/hosts without rebooting?
18:49 < Radix_> sure
18:50 < Radix_> just edit it and that's it
18:50 < jZed> hmm but I put a different hostname in and it still shows the old one
18:51 < Radix_> edit /etc/hostname?
18:51 < Radix_> or reboot?
18:51 < jZed> edited but didn't reboot
18:53 < jZed> /etc/hosts shows 127.0.0.1 dev dev.localhost.localdomain
18:57 < jZed> guess Imma reboot, thanks for the tips, back soon 
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19:47 < jZed__> this little script sure comes in handy: rm /data/wre/var/hoster.arg.cache; rm /data/wre/var/version.txt; rm -r /data/We\bGUI; /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment; /data/wre/sbin/setup
19:48 < jZed__> well now mod_proxy starts but mod_perl and Spectre still don't
20:00 < jZed__> allright, I manually created /data/wre/etc and /data/wre/prereqs/apache/logs which weren't there and now at least I have logs to look at
20:01 < jZed__> so I see this in modperl.error.log:
20:01 < jZed__> Cannot load /data/wre/prereqs/apache/modules/mod_apreq2.so into server: libapreq2.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
20:05 <@preaction> jZed__, sounds like your wre install has a major problem
20:05 < jZed__> yeah, I've been working on it since yesterday
20:05 < jZed__> getting frustrated
20:05 < jZed__> must have run setup 75 times
20:05 < jZed__> at least now I have apache logs which I didn't before
20:05 <@preaction> which one did you download?
20:06 < jZed__> 7.1.3-stable
20:06 <@preaction> that's not the WRE
20:06 < jZed__> oh, just a sec
20:06 <@preaction> there are TWO THINGS. one is the WRE, the other is WebGUI
20:06 <@preaction> i don't care about version, i want to know platform
20:06 < jZed__> oh debian
20:07 < jZed__> yes, I understand about the two things now
20:07 < jZed__> wre is just the other apps and an install script
20:07 <@preaction> do you know how to install .deb packages manually? you don't need the WRE, it's just ... more convenient (when it's done)
20:07 < jZed__> is there a url to get the webgui directly, I can't see that listed anywhere so only way I can get it is via mirror
20:07 < jZed__> during setup
20:08 < jZed__> sure I can install debs
20:08 <@preaction> http://www.webgui.org
20:12 <@preaction> are you following the docs/install.txt instructions?
20:12 < jZed__> yep
20:12 < jZed__> every step
20:12 <@preaction> you don't have existing apache2 or mysql or otherwise installs?
20:13 <@preaction> you're running setenvironment before you try to start/restart wG?
20:13 < jZed__> yes I have perl and apache2 and mysql but I made sure to turn them all off
20:13 < jZed__> yes I'm running setenvironment
20:13 <@preaction> you're root
20:14 < jZed__> yep
20:14 <@preaction> you could configure your existing installs to work with WebGUI
20:14 < jZed__> just swap in the conf files?
20:15 <@preaction> http://www.plainblack.com/installing_webgui
20:15 <@preaction> no, i would not do that
20:15 <@preaction> read the link, follow that
20:15 < jZed__> ok thanks for all your help
20:16 <@preaction> you'll need to apt-get install perl-magick (or something similar)
20:16 <@preaction> there are other dependencies too
20:16 <@preaction> i think they're all covered by the link, but you'll have to find them in APT
20:17 < jZed__> oh I have all the perl prereqs
20:17 <@preaction> then you'll also need to create an init.d script for spectre
20:18 <@preaction> you may be able to get away with moving the rc.spectre from the WRE into /etc/init.d/, but you may have to look in and edit it
20:18 < jZed__> ok, I can handle that
20:19 < jZed__> fortunately, like most perl stuff, difficulty of installation does not necessarily bod difficulty of use, thank god
20:22 <@preaction> that's what the WRE is supposed to fix... but imho it'd be better to provide a .deb that had the appropriate dependencies
20:22 <@preaction> gentoo actually has an emerge version of wG that automatically pulls in dependencies, dunno how it is on setup though
20:39 < jZed__> well I was wrong about having all the prereqs, I'd thought that installing Catalyst pulled in everything on CPAN, but webgui needs even more
20:40 < jZed__> but testEnvironment.pl is doing a good job of getting everything
20:59 < jZed__> grr, my absolute least favorit cpan.pm error : test died because of failure of pod coverage # for kripes sakes let us install even if your pod sucks
20:59 < jZed__> Graphics::ColorNames
21:22 <+crythias> force install
21:22 < jZed__> oh sure, did that
21:22 < jZed__> all the perl stuff eventually installed
21:22 < jZed__> I've got webgui to start
21:23 < jZed__> but now i can't seem to get to the admin login
21:24 < jZed__> it should just point at dev.localhost.localdomain if that's in my domains/.conf
21:29 < jZed__> hmm, WebGUI starts, I can get to my old apache directories, I can't get to the WebGui directory, must have messed something up in virtual hosts
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21:36 < jZed__> hrm, closer and closer ... now when I point at the webgui domain dir, I get "Fatal Internal Error"
21:36 < jZed__> must be some sort of Spectre or WebGui error because it doesn't look like a regular Apache one
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22:08 < jZed__> w00000000000000000t!
22:09 < jZed__> webgui is installed, the install from source was much easier than WRE
22:09 < jZed__> thanks everyone for your help
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22:58 < jZed__> installation done, configuration next ... hmm it wants css03.css but there is no such file or it can't find it, so I can't see the admin panel etc. cause no CSS unhides it
23:04 < jZed__> ah no, it's the /extras CSS it can't find, I probably need an alias in apache.conf
23:05 < perlm> did you move the extras to your config instance?
23:08 < jZed__> no 
23:08 < jZed__> but this fixes it in apache.conf: Alias /extras/ "/data/WebGUI/www/extras/"
23:08 < jZed__> or should I copy extras into /domains/public?
23:10 < perlm> yeah, that apache.conf edit sounds like a hack
23:10 < jZed__> the page is very confusing without the css 
23:10 < jZed__> :-)
23:11 < jZed__> but everything is cool, I have webgui and my old PHP and Mason stuff all running off the same port
23:11 < perlm> your domainname.conf in the /WebGUI/etc dir should have "extrasURL" : "/extras", and "extrasPath" : "/data/WebGUI/www/extras",
23:13 < jZed__> yep those are there
23:15 < jZed__> oh well, this works for now
23:15 < perlm> are you using a virtual host?  You should have DocumentRoot /data/WebGUI/domains/www.yourdomain.com/public
23:16 < jZed__> yep
23:16 < perlm> that is strange....../extras should map to /data/WebGUI/domains/www.yourdomain.com/public/extras
23:16 < perlm> without the alias...oh well
23:20 < perlm> holy smokes, I think I just counted 100 individual connections to the server to load an asset configuration page.
23:41 < jZed__> it wasn't me :-)
23:46 < jZed__> "You are currently working under a tag called: None"?
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04:36 <@preaction> how does the <tmpl_var controls> parameter get populated? i can't seem to find a single wobject that does it
04:43 -!- preaction changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI (stable: WebGUI 7.1.3) || Need help? Ask and wait patiently (it might take awhile)
05:35 <+crythia1> hrm
05:35 <+crythia1> preaction you still there?
05:35  * crythia1 is bringin' sexy back.
05:48 <@preaction> i'm back now, had to make food
05:53 <@preaction> found it... $self->getToolbar
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05:16 < preaction-m> damnit roy, get your ass back here
05:17 < Radix-wrk> You just want his ass?
05:17 < preaction-m> you don't?
05:17 < Radix-wrk> No wait.. don't answer that
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07:37 < Radix-wrk> PB webpages are still broken btw.. - https://www.plainblack.com/install/upgrade_help
07:37 < Radix-wrk> getting a ^AssetProxy(pb-redesign-2006/nav); on the side there
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17:55 < perlm> so what's new at PlainBlack this week?
18:09 < perlm> Does anyone know what this means from my /var/log/webgui.log " WORKFLOW: Response for babWLAT6BW20Qv8869RwbQ was redirected"?
18:11 < ckotil> not entirely. all i can get from it is that a workflow process was redirected
18:13 < perlm> The rest of the message says "This should never happen if configured correctly."
18:13 < ckotil> heh
18:13 < perlm> I'm trying to see if spectre is responding to the default port.
18:17 < ckotil> turn on debug mode
18:17 < perlm> Spectre is responding to the default port just fine.  I'm not sure if the problem is in my domain.conf or the spectre.conf.  not sure what there is to even change in spectre.cof.
18:18 < perlm> hah, "What port should we connect to WebGUI on?"  I'm only running on 443, not 80.
18:19 < ckotil> so you're only running under ssl?
18:19 < perlm> yes
18:19 < ckotil> maybe it needs a non ssl instance
18:19 < ckotil> i dont really know
18:21 < perlm> spectre only takes an ip address to talk to WebGUI.  the default host for that IP is not WebGUI.  
18:21 < perlm> I might be SOL on this one.
18:23 < perlm> has anyone gotten WebGUI to run in the default Apache host in a subdir to webroot?  Or does it have to run in its own Virtual Host?
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19:28 < ckotil> i have gotten it to run at http://newt.grnoc.iu.edu/WebGUI
19:29 < ckotil> heres a goofy bug. I add a new ^FlieUrl(); macro and in firefox if i click on the word FileUrl in the wysiwyg editor , firefox2 crashes
19:30 < ckotil> firefox2 likes to show raw file information rather than loading an image or offering a file to download.
19:30 < ckotil> so i had to go back and add ^FileUrl to a lot of my urls
19:31 < ckotil> daaamn. my webgui::Cache::FileCache is up to 12 megs
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21:17 < jZed__> ok, here's a pickle ... I put on debug and now when I go into anything on the admin panel (including settings to turn debug off) all I get is the debug output ... no pages; on non-adming stuff it shows both
21:19 < jZed__> for example the page starts with { "op" : "editSettings" }
21:28 <@preaction> jZed__, you can edit the configuration file manually, but remember to restart apache after you're done
21:28 <@preaction> i'd also file a bug, if you can find the code that's doing it
21:31 < jZed__> hmm, so c /data/WebGUI/etc/domain-name.conf put "debug" : 0, ?
21:32 < jZed__> nope, that didn't work
21:32 <@preaction> did you restart apache?
21:33 < jZed__> yep
21:34 <@preaction> holy crap the Flash Player 9 Beta for Linux actually WORKS
21:35 < jZed__> cool, I'm blocked from lots of stuff because I don't have 9
21:35 < ckotil> preaction: yeah
21:36 < jZed__> is there an easy way to just wipe out a site and start a new one? delete the mysql db and start over?
21:36 < jZed__> or will I need to replace some directories too?
21:39 < jZed__> I'm sorry I've got so many questions, but I need to decide in the next day or two whether to use webgui for a really big project (bigger than any I've seen using webgui), and I'd like to at least have it minimally working before I decide :-)
21:47 <@preaction> jZed__, what kind of project?
21:48 <@preaction> and don't sell it short, WebGUI is running some massive stuff already
21:48 < jZed__> um, it's under NDA, but generally think of MySpace + YouTube + Other stuff
21:48 < ckotil> I just completed a big project, redesigning all of our NOC websites. Now im working to implement customer portal functionality. interfacing with out database of contacts
21:48 <@preaction> Brunswick New Technologies, the US Department of State
21:48 <@preaction> oh, i see...
21:48 <@preaction> umm....
21:48 < jZed__> I'm not selling it short, I'm aiming big :-)
21:49 <@preaction> we'll set aside my complete dislike for the entire idea of MySpace and say this: 
21:49 < ckotil> would webgui be able to power a site with millions of hits a day?
21:49 <@preaction> when you get it to work with webgui, integrated with webgui's stuff, it will be awesome
21:49 <@preaction> Myspace with versioning? hells yes
21:49 < ckotil> heh
21:50 <@preaction> like most CMS, it's limited only by the computer
21:50 < ckotil> im wondering if the server running webgui would be able to keep up with the requests
21:50 < jZed__> preaction, I know, I believe that, but I gotta get it working to convince the CEO
21:51 <@preaction> which reminds me, there's a lot of efficiency stuff i want to do, but it'll break API so it'll have to be in 9.x
21:51 <@preaction> anyway
21:52 < jZed__> so, I now have a totally borked install ... version tags I can't commit because they were locked when spectre quit, the debug stuff that prevents me from doing any admin tasks ... how do I start over?
21:52 <@preaction> if you just re-create the config file and database, you should be fine
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22:11 < perlm> jZed, you ever get things working?
22:13 < jZed__> yes, I got it installed, my virtual hosts are not quite right but I think I can fix that, I just reinstalled a site that had problems and now I am trying without success to create a first page, I commit the version tag but the page is still in pending and I don't know how to get it out
22:16 < jZed__> hrmph, spectre.pl --daemon gives Can't use string ("sitename") as a HASH ref while "strict refs" in use at ../lib/WebGUI/Config.pm line 226.
22:30 <@preaction> jZed__, look in the wG config file, is everything kosher? looks like either $self or $self->{_config} got set to a string for some reason
22:31 <@preaction> are you running 7.2?
22:31 < jZed__> 7.1.3
22:31 < perlm> My problems are with Spectre not being able to talk with WebGUI either.
22:32 < jZed__> this is my conf: "sitename" : [ "dev.localhost.localdomain", "localhost.localdomain"],
22:36 < perlm> I wonder why ^AssetProxy started erroring on every page.
22:38 < perlm> WOOOHOOOOOO, spectre just did a commit without throwing an error and requiring me to manually commit!  
22:39 < perlm> But what does this mean?  Processing failed on macro: ^AssetProxy(style3_coolmenu);: Can't call method "canView" on an undefined value at /usr/share/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post.pm line 117
22:41 <@preaction> perlm, look at line 117 of that file, what is it trying to call a method on?
22:41 < perlm> $self->getThread->getParent->canView
22:41 <@preaction> a lot of these error messages that people are getting should have been TESTED FOR (even if at runtime) and reported with more information
22:41 <@preaction> perlm, it means that the post has no parent Thread
22:41 <@preaction> which is probably bad
22:42 < perlm> but this *just* started showing up.  And the little icon that appears just at the upper right of the admin bar is no longer there.
22:45 <@preaction> no, wait, it's trying to get the Parent of the Thread, which should be the Collaboration System
22:45 <@preaction> meaning there's a CS that doesn't exist, have you deleted one recently? have you deleted anything recently?
22:45 < perlm> yes
22:45 < perlm> lots and lots
22:46 < perlm> I've been adding assets and blowing them away left and right.....mostly with the spectre auto-commit broken and me commiting things manually.
22:46 < perlm> I'm trying to do a rollback to the clean install, but clicking rollback does nothing.
22:47 < jZed__> I did that by deleting and reinstalling the mysql database
22:47 < jZed__> and then restarting apache
22:47 < perlm> yeah, I shoudl do that.....can't remember how to recreate the database.
22:48 <@preaction> rollback doesn't seem to work as described, it's more a "delete this version tag and this version tag only"
22:48 <@preaction> instead of "delete all version tags that occured after this version tag", as I would expect
22:48 < perlm> it won't even rollback just the latest version.
22:49 < perlm> worse, nothing is written to the log saying what went wrong.
22:49 <@preaction> crapbeans
22:49 <@preaction> nothing in modperl error log either?
22:49 < perlm> j/s I'll check
22:50 < perlm> nope
22:50 < perlm> unless mod_perl logs are written somewhere besides the normal apache logs
22:50 <@preaction> no, they shouldn't
22:51 < perlm> I see the message coming in for spectre, but no action.
22:53 < jZed__> well I am stuck with spectre.pl --daemon returning Can't use string ("sitename") as a HASH ref while "strict refs" in use at ../lib/WebGUI/Config.pm line 224.
22:53 < jZed__> I tried putting in a hard-coded $self->{_config} and that just led to other errors :-(
22:54 < perlm> by connecting on 80 instead of 443 I got it to rollback.  I've rolled back to the initial install and am still getting that error.
22:54 < jZed__> duh, the light dawns, lol, perm = perlmonkey2 :-)
22:55 < jZed__> s/perm/perlm/
22:55 < perlm> heh, yep
22:55 < jZed__> it was port 443 that gave you away :-)
22:56 < jZed__> dang, I had spectre.pl working at least some of the time the other day, I wonder why it won't start?
22:57 < perlm> I'd recopy the config file and start over because it sounds like some text got munged somewhere.
23:00 < jZed__> the odd thing is it finds the config for the ip and port and only later bombs on the sitename
23:01 < perlm> okay, I'm upgrading to 7.2 just because I can't remember if I have 1.2 or 1.3 and I need to rebuild the db :P
23:06 < jZed__> ok, I'm nearing the end of my rope, two full days and I still have not been able to create a single page using webgui
23:20 < perlm> it is pretty slick if you can get around the rough edges......
23:20 < jZed__> I hope to get there, but doubting it sometimes
23:21 < perlm> course, now I can't get apache with 7.2 installed to start
23:25 < perlm> I don't remember this from the 7.1.2 install "[error] Can't locate WebGUI.pm in @INC "
23:25 < perlm> that is from my httpd logs.
23:26 <@preaction> perlm, that one's easy: you need to fix your PATH for apache, usually setenv PERL5LIB will do it
23:27 < jZed__> w00t, success
23:27 <@preaction> and of course, pb's spectre just finally spat out the support requests for today... i swear to god...
23:27 <@preaction> so at 3:30pm i finally get all the support requests for the weekend and today... wtf...
23:27 < jZed__> was missing curly braces around the dev_local... config section
23:27 < jZed__> so the JSON bombed
23:27 <@preaction> yeah... i'm not liking JSON, should've used INI or Yaml for the configuration
23:28 < jZed__> well, Config.pm needs a check to make sure JsontoObj() returns an object and complains about bad JSON right there rather than passing a non-object to the requesting routine
23:29 < jZed__> want a patch?
23:33 < jZed__> put this after line 343 in Config.pm : Can't use string ("sitename") as a HASH ref while "strict refs" in use at ../lib/WebGUI/Config.pm line 224.
23:33 < jZed__> er, I mean this:  die "Can't parse JSON in '$filename'\n" unless ref $con\f;
23:34 < jZed__> that's just sloppy error catching, a proper error would have told me where to look right away
23:34 < jZed__> # of course I've done such sloppy things myself too ...
23:34 <@preaction> jZed__, i completely agree, most of my "tests" that i'm required to write have been neglected for better error handling
23:35 <@preaction> the current ErrorHandler thing is horrible (when Carp would give me more functionality, and eval {} would let me pick and choose what to catch)
23:36 < jZed__> yeah I threw in some Carps to debug
23:36 <@preaction> i'll leave a note to add that error
23:36 < jZed__> thanks
23:38 < perlm> Somewhere something is telling apache to add /data/WebGUI to @ISA and my WebGUI is in /usr/share/WebGUI
23:39 < jZed__> I made a symlink from /data to /usr/share/webgui and put WebGUI in that
23:40 < perlm> I had it fine for 7.1.3
23:40 < perlm> I just missed something in the config files
23:40 < jZed__> how do you unlock a version?
23:42 < perlm> commit it?
23:42 <@preaction> perlm, grep for "/data/WebGUI" in lib, maybe there's something explicit in there, which would be bad
23:42 < jZed__> I'm Admin, I made a collab sys, committed it, it did not show up anywhere except in pending versions, i go there and view it and it is locked
23:42 <@preaction> that would be bug-worthy
23:42 <@preaction> jZed__, spectre isn't running probably :(
23:43 < jZed__> that's what I thought but ps -elf shows it
23:43 <@preaction> kill it, run spectre with the --run --debug flags, and see if there's an error or something
23:44 <@preaction> maybe pipe it through tee so you can get a log of it as well
23:45 < perlm> precation, that was a good idea.  preload.pl had /data/WebGUI hardcoded.
23:46 <@preaction> that's a bug in my opinion, please submit it, but be warned that JT might not consider it a bug
23:46 <@preaction> or, search the dev forums
23:46 <@preaction> maybe it has a reason why that's like that
23:46 < perlm> hardcoding paths are not really a great idea for enterprise software.
23:47 < jZed__> Respons H_Y... retrieved successfully ... Got an error response for  for H_Y...
23:47 < jZed__> hmm, starting it up again after that and the page is unlocked
23:50 < perlm> now I'm getting weird Log::Log4perl::Appender::log errors :(
23:50 <@preaction> spectre just annoys the hell out of me sometimes...
23:51 < perlm> on some pages I'm logged out, but others I'm logged in.
23:54 <@preaction> browser cache
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03:24 < perlm> Hah, just saw WebGUI uses yahoo's AJAX library.  Nice.  After much looking and playing with, I decided Yahoo's was the most appropriate also.
03:44 < Radix-wrk> they did a review of a number of the libraries out there - I saw the discussion on it in the dev channel
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03:47 < Radix-wrk> http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/dev/discuss/javascript-apis
04:29 < perlm> reading the review now
04:36 < perlm> Yeah, JT's arguements for YUI sound a lot like my own, although besides YUI I had only done anthing enterprise level with Scriptaculous/Prototype.
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10:19 <@preaction> it's 2:00am, i have to be up at 9:00am for another day of support, and I only got 4 hours of sleep last night...
10:19 <@preaction> how do I survive?
10:22 <@preaction> and why am i still hanging out in the ubuntu channel?
10:27 < Radix-wrk> Good questions
10:34 <@preaction> and let it henceforth be known that I am sick and tired of the HttpProxy Wobject...
10:42 < Radix-wrk> hehe
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19:22 < perlm> any word on how Zjed's new install is working out for him?
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20:04 <@preaction> perlm, none since yesterday
20:26 < perlm> I talked to him.  He loves it.
20:27 < perlm> "cat's pajamas" is what he said.
20:28 < perlm> Does WebGUI have Template::Toolkit2 support?
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20:28 < ckotil> Can I run a cgi upload file script under webgui?
20:29 < perlm> I think there are a couple of built in Assets for doing that.
20:29 < ckotil> We have these weekly reports that are uploaded to the server then a cronjob script generates an html file of all the weekly reports. And i just http proxy that generated html page.
20:29 < perlm> But writing your own custom upload asset shouldn't be hard.
20:29 < ckotil> hrm
20:29 < ckotil> intneresting
20:30 < ckotil> i did start looking at creating my own assets
20:30 < ckotil> ive created a couple pretty bare bone assets that didnt do squat but display some random text
20:31 < ckotil> i was hoping i could use a snippet asset and paste the cgi script into that and have it execute no problem.
20:31 < perlm> but you want your cronjob to LWP post the report to a WebGUI asset?
20:31 < ckotil> nah it will just cronjob an external html page
20:31 < ckotil> and webgui will http proxy it in
20:32 < perlm> how is that working for you?
20:33 < ckotil> http://www.abilene.iu.edu/abilene/support/weekly-reporting.html
20:33 < ckotil> great
20:37 < perlm> I'm pretty new to WebGUI myself and am only running it at a test server at my house, but I have the design guys playing with it and will probably be moving all our stuff to WebGUI.
20:40 < ckotil> Ive been using it for 4 months now
20:40 < ckotil> i love it
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20:49 < perlm> I'm trying to figure out how you were going to use a CGI script inside of a snippet asset?  Can snippets be executed?  The help says only JS and markup are allowed.
20:49 < ckotil> yeah :/ i dunno either
20:49 < ckotil> looks like i gotta create a custom asset
20:49 < ckotil> fuck
20:50 < perlm> if your weekly reports are in a DB, couldn't you use the WebGUI form builder asset?
20:52 < ckotil> yeah.
20:52 < ckotil> pretty easily too
20:54 < perlm> SQL Report asset looks like jsut what you need.
20:54 < perlm> and just a few underneath is the Survey asset.......thank the gods, I'll never have to write another stupid survey webapp!
20:55 < ckotil> heh
20:55 < ckotil> hrm.. so you're saying store the files in the db?
20:55 < ckotil> interesting.
20:55 < perlm> BLOBs are meant to be used :P
20:56 <@preaction> perlm, i believe there are plugins for TT, dunno about TT2
20:56 < perlm> preaction, what is the default templating tool?
20:56 <@preaction> HTML::Template
20:57 < ckotil> good call perlm
20:58 <@preaction> ckotil, you could also use the HttpProxy module, set up an apache or tinyhttpd instance to run your cgi scripts, and get the CGI output in that manner
20:58 < ckotil> im doing that now.
20:58 < ckotil> how can i secure access to the upload.cgi script
20:58 <@preaction> perhaps there should be an "Exec" asset that could execute a command, translating URL params into command-line params
20:58 < perlm> I'm starting to daydream all sorts of cool things with WebGUI.  I wonder how long it would take me to port my survey's directly into the WebGUI DB.  Just write to the DB and skip the WebGUI front end.
20:59 < ckotil> exec would be cool
20:59 < perlm> yeah, and maybe it could eval{} user entered data :P
20:59 <@preaction> ckotil, secure? you could make sure that the referer was correct
21:00 <@preaction> Exec would be able to execute "perl script.pl --options", no need for eval {}
21:00 <@preaction> eval would be far harder to secure
21:00 < ckotil> ok. that thoguht did cross my mind, but i dismissed it bc i dunno how to check the referer. how would i check to see that the referer is in fact the webgui page?
21:00 <@preaction> a CGI script is passed the HTTP headers in the environment, one should be HTTP_REFERER
21:01 <@preaction> you could ensure that the httpd you're running only accepts connections from localhost
21:01 <@preaction> in fact, i would definately make sure of that
21:01 < ckotil> ok.
21:01 < ckotil> btw. im not running the wre so im jsut gonna use the same apache instance
21:01 <@preaction> you'll want to make a vhost then
21:01 < ckotil> ok
21:01 < ckotil> ive got a bunch setup.
21:01 <@preaction> and if the name isn't resolvable outside your server, you have no problem
21:02 < ckotil> ah. good idea
21:02 <@preaction> i mean, it'd be weird to see http://localhost and have it work, but work it would
21:03 < ckotil> its an internal tool. so no big deal
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22:03 < ckotil> in my custom wobject i created a form in the template. how do i process this form in the wobject?
22:04 < ckotil> eh. i think i see it
22:18 < perlm> I regularly fake the Referer in HTML headers.  Using that as any part of the security isn't a good idea.
22:22 < perlm> isn't the form submitted with each field name a hash key of the wobject?
22:29 < ckotil> yeah sysadmins told me not to check referer. big risk there
22:29 < ckotil> so im trying to create a custom wobject.
22:29 < ckotil> and i have the form created in the template for my custom wobject.
22:29 < ckotil> but i dunno where to even begin processing the form.
22:29 < ckotil> its gotta be somewhere in sub view
23:05 < perlm> Asset.pm, 2137 lines of code.  Yeah, not gonna be easy to figure this out.
23:10 < perlm> Looks like   processPropertiesFromFormPost is the Asset.pm sub that processes form Posts.
23:14 < perlm> looks like the default functionality of processPropertiesFromFormPost is to simply put each parameter that was Posted into the database.
23:15 < perlm> This code is good stuff.  
23:16 < perlm> but you dont' have to call SUPER in your own asset.  Looks like you can do whatever you want.
23:16 < perlm> I dig it......
23:28 < ckotil> in the wobject tutorial it seems that they use template variables to process the form.
23:28 < ckotil> i dunno. im heading home. cya tomorrow
23:32 < perlm> hasta
23:33 < perlm> oh...you meant process the template, not process the post.  yeah, that was all magically calls to other mod's that I haven't looked at yet.
23:33 < perlm> s/magically/magical/
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01:18 < perlm> I wonder if httpproxy can be made to understand IRC?
01:25 <@preaction> IRC is an interactive, stateful protocol
01:25 <@preaction> http is not
01:25 <@preaction> don't ask me how CGI::IRC works, i don't understand a lick of it
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01:34 < perlm> when you said you worked at walmart, did you mean a store, or Bentonville?
01:55 <@preaction> a store
01:55 <@preaction> as an unloader
01:55 <@preaction> on the GM side, so not stacked nicely on pallets, packed full into the truck
01:55 <@preaction> probably the hardest job in the store
01:56 <@preaction> no... definately the hardest job in the store... maintenance got more respect than unloading
02:10 < perlm> I used to work a trucking dock and have some sympathy for poorly packed trailers.
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02:14 <@preaction> exactly... the mofos i swear would put the long-thin boxes on top, and then a box of ammunition or something on top of that, so when you pull down the long-thin one...
02:14 <@preaction> if you weren't quick, you were lucky to wake up in a couple hours
02:35 <@preaction> by the end of the night i'll have a working calendar, with simple events and simple views. i've got three days to add: Search, iCalendar feeds (both in and out), Event Recurrence, and Subscriptions
02:35 <@preaction> who'll bet against me? 5:4 odds
02:38 < perlm> holy crap
02:38 < perlm> I'm sure it will be finished in time.  But I'm thinking the real odds will be in the bug count.
02:38 < Radix-wrk> I bet it'll be buggy ;)
02:38 < perlm> hahahahaha
02:38 < Radix-wrk> lol
02:38 < perlm> great minds.....
02:39 <@preaction> bah, screw you guys
02:39 < perlm> :D
02:39 < Radix-wrk> lol
02:39 <@preaction> of course it's going to be buggy :p they give me a week to do this and they expect quality?
02:39 < perlm> If you need a tester or anyone to do some grunt work, give me a yell
02:39 <@preaction> if i had a web-facing test site i'd definately yell, but ... it would take me 10 minutes to set one up :p
02:40 < perlm> Yeah, that WebGUI, once you know what you are doing it takes minutes, I tell you whole minutes, to set up.
02:43 <@preaction> perlbot host IP commctrl.com
02:43 < perlbot> Sorry, type ip isn't allowed.  It might take up too much space here, or may be unsupported.  Allowed types are: a aaaa ptr mx ns cname
02:43 <@preaction> perlbot host commctrl.com
02:43 <@preaction> perlbot host acommctrl.com
02:43 <@preaction> perlbot host a commctrl.com
02:43 < perlbot> commctrl.com has address 72.1.4.143
02:43 <@preaction> perlbot hate
02:43 < perlbot> sometimes I hate people.  but then i realise it's because I hate a person, and I don't want to hate that person, so I spread it out over all humanity
02:43 <@preaction> perlbot emo?
02:45 < perlm> perlbot help
02:45 < perlbot> (fact)::tell (who) about (what)::(what) > (who)::learn (what) as (info)::relearn (fact) as (info)::phone (phone number)::shorten (url)::shorten it::search (module)::docs (module)::perldoc -f (function)::jargon (term)::math::fortune::flip::host (type) (record)::rot13::roll (die)::tempconv (temp)::scramble (foo)::8ball::slap::diss::what time is it::top/bottom (number) karma::geoip (ip)
02:45 < perlm> fun
02:45 < perlm> perlbot WWW::Mechanzie::docs
02:45 < perlm> perlbot WWW::Mechanize::docs
02:45 < perlm> perlbot WWW::Mechanize::perldoc
02:46 <@preaction> perlbot cpan WWW::Mechanize
02:46 < perlbot> Documentation for 'WWW::Mechanize' can be found here: http://xrl.us/s9mr
02:46 < perlm> how cool is that
02:46 <@preaction> perlbot perldoc WWW::Mechanize
02:46 < perlbot> Documentation for 'WWW::Mechanize' can be found here: http://xrl.us/s9mr
02:47 <@preaction> perlbot -f split
02:47 <@preaction> perlbot perldoc -f split
02:47 < perlbot> Documentation for 'split' can be found here: http://snipurl.com/7ket
02:47 < perlbot> Documentation for '-f split' can be found here: http://snipurl.com/127ln
02:47 <@preaction> it's been a while since i've been able to play with perlbot
02:47 <@preaction> i do like how he rotates his URL shorten sites
02:48 < perlm> she's like a little sidekick quickly fetching things you often need.
02:48 <@preaction> i also like how the URLs point to perldoc.com, which is dead
02:49 <@preaction> perlbot perlfunc
02:49 < perlbot> Perl builtin functions - http://www.perldoc.com/perl5.8.0/pod/perlfunc.html
02:49 <@preaction> damnit
03:07 < perlm> oh man....the wre has an automagic version updater.....
03:07 < perlm> sweet
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04:07 < preaction-m> perlbot <3
04:07 < perlbot> bullshit, I'm way more than 3
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05:42 < perlm> perlbot > 100
05:42 < perlm> perlbot >100
05:44 < preaction-m> <3 looks like a heart
05:46 < preaction-m> given a day of the week, and a specified first day of the week, how would you find what position the day of the week falls on
05:46 < preaction-m> say the Fdow is 0 (sunday), and the dow is 1 (monday), the position would be 1
05:47 < preaction-m> say the Fdow is 3 (Wednesday), and the dow is 1 (monday), the position would be 6
05:47 < preaction-m> er.. i lied, the first position would be 2, not 1
05:47 < preaction-m> 1 if it's 0-based
05:47 < preaction-m> the second would be 5 if zero based
05:48 < preaction-m> if the dow is less than the Fdow, add 7 to the dow. then subtract the Fdow from the dow to get position...
05:49 < preaction-m> there must be something better...
05:53 < Radix-wrk> why use zero based.. it's totally non-intuitive to the end user of they ever have to deal with it
05:54 < preaction-m> the end user will never have to deal with it
05:54 < Radix-wrk> k
05:54 < preaction-m> and it doesn't work without 0-based, i've tried using 7 for sunday... it doesn't work
05:54 < preaction-m> it's just this algorithm that needs it
05:54 < Radix-wrk> well traditional unix way was 0 and 7 for sunday..
05:55 < Radix-wrk> it didn't matter what your 'first day of the week was'
05:55 < preaction-m> i use % to have 7 turn out to be 0
05:55 < preaction-m> right, it's just wG already has a "First Day of the Week" user Profile Field, so i have to provide this functionality
05:55 < preaction-m> it's annoying the piss out of me right now
05:58 < preaction-m> hell, i'm developing under the assumption that Fdow is 0, and i can't get it right...
06:01 < perlm> dang....I did this in college......there is a very elegant trick to finding days of the month.
06:01 < preaction-m> shit, it's not the dow position i've screwed up, it's the week number
06:09 < perlm> I haven't been able to find this in the docs, but what is the difference between an Asset and a WObject.  I know a WObject subclasses an Asset, but how do they differ in function?
06:10 < preaction-m> Wobjects have more built-in stuff
06:10 < preaction-m> look at the definitions
06:10 < preaction-m> each level pushes a new set of properties onto the definition
06:11 < preaction-m> basically, subclass an Asset if you want to do more work
06:11 < preaction-m> or if you want it to be leaner
06:11 < perlm> I kinda got the impression that Asset's are generalized objects that should always be subclassed by a WObject.
06:11 < preaction-m> the new Event is an Asset subclass, but the Calendar itself is a Wobject
06:12 < preaction-m> Assets are (imho) generic pieces that can be moved around. a Wobject is an actual application that can use Assets if necessary
06:12 < perlm> cool, that was what I kind of guessed.
06:13 < preaction-m> you could just use Wobjects all the time, i'm sure (but then again, this is something that only the vets know, and i'm not one of them)
06:13 < perlm> I was thinking I'd only write my own Asset if I had some functionality that I wanted several WObjects to inherit.
06:14 < perlm> For instance, I'm eventually going to need something that can display trees of data.  That might make for an Asset.  
06:15 < preaction-m> i'd think more of a wobject. trees of data or trees of assets?
06:16 < preaction-m> why not an SQLReport?
06:16 < perlm> Maybe I can lift some code from SQLReport, but the data being shown, won't come from a database, but a webservice.
06:17 < Radix-wrk> can't use the webservice object?
06:17 < perlm> will the webservice object show the data in tree format?  or......I bet I can write a custom template for it.
06:18 < Radix-wrk> a template for it would be the way to go
06:19 < perlm> wow.......it will be crazy if I end up not even having to write one Asset.
06:19 < perlm> I'll have to sign over my first born to JT or something.
06:19 < Radix-wrk> wasn't that already in the license agreement?
06:20 < Radix-wrk> 2.9.14 All firstborn shall hereforth be named JT and should be owned subsidiaries of Plainblack LLC Inc.
06:21 < perlm> hahaha
06:21 < Radix-wrk> The whole idea of WebGUI is that you shouldn't need to deal with any code though :)  It's still getting there in practice for some things, but we've been pretty pleased with it out of the box and not needed to write anything but fancy templates :)
06:22 < Radix-wrk> Feel free to fix any bugs you find or extend what's there for the rest of us tho! :)
06:23 < perlm> Hopefully I'll be able to contribute back to the community.  This is like being given a commercial enterprise portal for free (and lives up to the PR).
06:25 < Radix-wrk> I'd love to try writing a wObject myself some time.. but to be honest I have no idea what to code or where to start.  (perl newbie too)
06:27 < Radix-wrk> Actually.. I do know where to start
06:27 < perlm> It looks complicated at first until you realize that most of the code is an automated channel for moving data to and from the database.  I think I'll try writing my own WObject that uses a custom template just to get my feet wet.
06:27 < perlm> where?
06:28 < Radix-wrk> with the wobject skeleton :)
06:28 < perlm> heh
06:28 < Radix-wrk> I have the pdf from the Webgui User Conference on writing wobjects too :)
06:29 < perlm> There is a pdf about building WObjects online, but my doc viewer doesn't show the code very well.
06:29 < Radix-wrk> Wobjects are also Assets,  Assets are more flexible, Wobjects provide more utility methods
06:29 < Radix-wrk> Assets don't usually have a style wrapper, or they do something custom for their style wrapper
06:30 < Radix-wrk> that's out of the pdf I have here.. Assets vs Wobjects
06:31 < perlm> I don't think that one is online
06:32 < Radix-wrk> probably not - the WUC was only a couple of months ago
06:34 < preaction-m> actually the skeleton needs to be updated... :(
06:34 < preaction-m> at least, it's never worked for me out of the box, after substituting my Wobject name in the appropriate places
06:34 < perlm> is there another WObject I can copy that is a pretty good example?
06:34 < preaction-m> always weird things going on
06:35 < preaction-m> they're all in varying states of update, but you are best with the skeleton
06:35 < preaction-m> if you can, keep track of the error messages you get, they probably need to be better
06:36 < preaction-m> the utility classes should give a full caller trace
06:36 < preaction-m> but they don't :(
06:36 < perlm> Where are the templates stored?
06:36 < preaction-m> templates are assets
06:36 < Radix-wrk> anywhere
06:37 < preaction-m> there are pros and cons to that, of course, but for wG purposes, it works wonderfully
06:38 < Radix-wrk> you can't usually add them through new content sidebar, but from the asset manager you can
06:38 < preaction-m> oh, and my first dow code works great now. i rule
06:38 < perlm> Nice...congrats
06:38 < Radix-wrk> cool
06:39 < perlm> I see....Content Sidebar->Assets then way at the bottom is a template choice.
06:43 < preaction-m> make sure to fill in the template namespace you put in your new wobject's definition
06:44 < perlm> I'm not sure I'm going to be able to tie the XML response from a webservice into a template's variables.
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06:46 < preaction-m> why not?
06:47 < perlm> Does the webservice Wobject allow me to do that?
06:49 < preaction-m> never tried it
06:49 < preaction-m> use the source, luke
06:49 < perlm> Wow, I can embed macros in the "Web Services Client Template" to handle the responses.
06:50 < perlm> cool beyond words.
06:50 < perlm> WebGUI is making me obsolete.  
06:55 < perlm> Okay, I'm outy.  g'night
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06:55 -!- preaction-m changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI (stable: 7.1.3; beta: 7.2.0) || Need help? Ask and wait patiently (it might take awhile)
06:55 < Radix-wrk> nite
06:55 < preaction-m> tomorrow is 7.2.1, no?
06:55 < Radix-wrk> yeah
06:56 < Radix-wrk> Wed night for you guys.. thursday morning for me :)
08:52 < preaction-m> now's where I wish I had taken discrete math in college
08:53 < preaction-m> Given an event with a start and an end, and a time period to search for, how can you tell if the event occurs during the time period? :p
08:54 < preaction-m> hit detection... if any of the start/end times are contained by the opposing start/end times, it's occuring
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17:37 < Jiggie> yooo
17:58 < ckotil> mmmm mod_rewrite how i love thee
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20:02 < bipolar> I'm here to humbly ask for assistance with my webgui install. My server is running Debian Sarge (stable) w/ Apache2. When I try to start Spectre I get the following error:
20:02 < bipolar> # Can't locate object method "get" via package "POE::Filter::HTTPHead_Line" at /usr/share/perl5/POE/Filter/Stackable.pm line 39.
20:02 < bipolar>         (in cleanup) Can't call method "free" on an undefined value at /usr/share/perl5/POE/Component/Connection/Keepalive.pm line 44 during global destruction.
20:02 < bipolar> I've googled and searched the webgui forums for all parts of that error with no luck.
20:03 < bipolar> I'm using the libpoe packages from http://deb.cyberdiscordia.org\
20:04 < bipolar> The Webgui install is from source.
20:04 < bipolar> version 7.1.2
20:09 <@preaction> bipolar, use cpan to try to update that module
20:10 < bipolar> preaction: ok. I'll try that. give me some time, I'm not overly familure with CPAN. :)
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20:32 < bipolar> preaction: that did it! thanks!
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21:00 < maxscience> hey
21:00 < maxscience> did you played a bit with Plone?
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21:20 < ckotil> we considered plone.
21:33 < ckotil> How do I export my site to /WebGUI/www/export ?
21:33 < ckotil> as static .html
21:34 < maxscience> and why you chose WebGUI over Plone?
21:36 < jZed> I chose it because it's Perl not Python :-)
21:36 < maxscience> and? :)
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21:37 < maxscience> why you prefer Perl over Python? :)
21:37 < jZed> and I'm a perl hacker, not a python hacker
21:37 < maxscience> oh ok
21:37 < jZed> 14 years of coding perl may have something to do with it :-)
21:39 < ckotil> WebGUI offered better access control
21:39 < ckotil> and pluggable authentication.
21:39 < ckotil> we use a university wide system called CAS
21:39 < maxscience> but python is much more easier, efficient, faster to code, etc. etc.
21:39 < ckotil> terrible error output tho
21:39 < maxscience> I also chose WebGUI... But now I checked again Plone since sometime and boy it is cool
21:40 < jZed> not faster for me to code, not easier for me, more efficient? dunno about that
21:40 < bipolar> is there any way to re-initalize the admin user and give that user access to everything? I seem to have a borked site that denies access to some things.
21:40 < jZed> what does plone have that webgui doesn't?
21:40 < maxscience> far better UI to start
21:41 < maxscience> much easier installation and admin
21:41 < jZed> bipolar ... maybe set the UI prefs to 9guru?
21:41 < jZed> I hear you on all those points maxscience
21:41 <+crythias> plone/zope rocks.
21:42 < maxscience> I am 9 guru :) I'm talking about UI usability, responsiveness, compatibility, and COOLNESS
21:42 <+crythias> but I liked WebGUI's end user stuff and draggable content.
21:42 < maxscience> whatever... Draggable content doesn't work on my favourite browser :D
21:42 <+crythias> maxscience: jZed was talking to bipolar :)
21:42 < maxscience> oh yeah sry :P
21:42 < jZed> what I need is ability to define multiple users with multiple sites and rich auth and perms
21:43 <+crythias> yeah, see that's where plone is good.. it has user heirarchy.
21:43 < maxscience> what do you mean by "define multiple users with multiple sites"?
21:43 < maxscience> you're an ISP offering WebGUI hostin?
21:43 < bipolar> jZed: I don't understand.... in Settings-> UI?
21:44 < jZed> no, it's a community with hosting provided to members but like an ISP host in some ways
21:45 < jZed> um, yeah, I think so bipolar
21:45 < maxscience> nice.. You have some heavy custom coding to auto-generate sites, etc.?
21:45 < jZed> I'm just getting started, but that's the general idea
21:45 < maxscience> So you don't have a working site yet
21:46 < jZed> nope, only installed my first webgui yesterday
21:46 < jZed> but I have a team and I think we've decided on webgui, so the fun begins
21:46 < bipolar> jZed: I don't see anything like that in settings->ui :\
21:47 <+crythias> no, it's user settings.
21:47 < ckotil> How do I export my site to /WebGUI/www/export ?
21:47 < maxscience> I hope you'll be sharing your stuff with the community... Another thing WebGUI is lacking badly is the Community... WebGUI contributions are ver very rare, Zope contributions are dozens a day
21:47 <+crythias> ckotil: if it's turned on in conf, admin on should show export.
21:47 < maxscience> almost :P
21:47 < ckotil> ah. k thx. i know i enabled it in the conf
21:48 < maxscience> I mean Plone
21:48 < jZed> I hear you about the community
21:49 < maxscience> and what is really annoying is that plainblack staff doesn't really like to have feedback
21:49 <+crythias> yeah. that guy crythias.. who knows when he's going to post, and he never ever posts anything that works. oh. hey....
21:50 < jZed> hmm, preaction has been really helpful to me and has fed back some minor suggestions I made
21:50 < maxscience> ahah nah crythias I didn't forget ya. But you're a rare guy in the WebGUI community, that's what I meann
21:50 < ckotil> i wish the forums were better archived at plainblack.com
21:50 < ckotil> however the plainblack support forum is very helpful
21:50 < ckotil> sure....$500 / year helpful
21:50 <+crythias> it's ok. I'm rather terse and impatient, so I do understand as well.
21:52 < jZed> how would you compare the scalability of plone and webgui ... for really heavy traffic
21:53 < preaction-m> maxscience: where did you get that conclusion, pb doesn't like feedback? that's what the dev forum is for
21:53 < preaction-m> though, because nobody else from pb staff is here, i can say i was told NOT to seek community feedback on the calendar rewrite, since it's being mostly funded by a client
21:54 < preaction-m> with that being said, i've got my web-facing dev site operational, and when i feel comfortable (probably by tomorrow morning), i plan to take a few people up on their offer of help testing
21:55 < jZed> preaction++
21:55 < preaction-m> i was surprised as well, the pb site says there's a #webgui on freenode and efnet, and i got here and there was basically nobody
21:56 < preaction-m> radix and cryth, roy and one or two others from the last WUC
21:56 < preaction-m> i inquired about the efnet one, it's gone.
21:57 < preaction-m> what should've happened is JT should've agreed to my request to branch for this calendar, so people can check out what i'm doing. but c'est la vie.
21:58 < preaction-m> trifle not in the affairs of hackers, for they are subtle and quick to temper
21:58 < preaction-m> perlbot karma preaction
21:58 < perlbot> preaction doesn't have any karma
21:58 < preaction-m> damnit...
21:58  * preaction-m & work
22:01 < bipolar> crythias: When I click on a user in 'Admin Console -> Users' I get a long delay, then I get returned to the homepage and the log says:
22:01 < bipolar> 2006/11/15 14:49:23 - FATAL - securityservicecompany.com.conf - Log::Log4perl::Appender::log[182] - Couldn't execute prepared statement: SELECT u.userId AS userId, a1.fieldData AS ldapConnection FROM users AS u INNER JOIN authentication AS a1 ON u.userId = a1.userId WHERE a1.fieldName = 'ldapConnection' AND u.authMethod = 'LDAP' ORDER BY ldapConnection, userId LIMIT ?,18446744073709551615 : With place holders: 0.  Root cause: You have an error in
22:01 < bipolar> your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near ''0',18446744073709551615' at line 1
22:01 < bipolar> 2006/11/15 14:49:24 - ERROR - securityservicecompany.com.conf - Log::Log4perl::Layout::PatternLayout::render[[undef]] - Couldn't execute operation : WebGUI::Operation::Workflow::www_runWorkflow. Root cause: ModPerl::Util::exit: (120000) exit was called at /usr/local/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Session/ErrorHandler.pm line 217
22:02 < perlm> Plone comes in Fedora extras and is as easy to install as typing "yum install plone" as root.
22:02 < bipolar> Any content I edit ends up locked and I'm unable to commit it.
22:03 < perlm> The problem is Python doesn't have anything close to a CPAN and Python also has some things that are weird (so says Guido), plus and most horrendous, regex's aren't part of the language.
22:04 < perlm> so yes it looks pretty, but prettiness isn't a reason to choose a language.
22:04 < jZed> bipolar check spectre, when it goes out there's no warning and nothing gets commited
22:04 < bipolar> jZed: yeah, it's running
22:04 < preaction-m> perlm, if I were so inclined, i'd maintain an ubuntu package for wG, but for now i've got other things
22:05 < preaction-m> perlm: there is a gentoo package for webgui iirc
22:05 < bipolar> jZed: it seems to be a permissions error. I wish I could just reset the webgui user database and all the assets
22:06 < jZed> bipolar if you really want to wipe everything you can
22:06 < perlm> Guido plans a complete overhaul of Python 2000 (or 2, whatever) to fix a lot of things.  My money is on Perl 6 as Guido's plans for Python 2 are just "bugfixes".
22:06 < bipolar> jZed: not everything, just the users.
22:06 < jZed> just go to mysql and do drop database some_domain_name
22:06 < preaction-m> and perl 6 is turning out to be Duke Nukem Forever
22:06 < perlm> it will be out next year.
22:06 < perlm> Spring or Summer target release date
22:06 < perlm> and it wil roxorz your soxorz
22:06 < preaction-m> seriously? awesome
22:07  * bipolar loads up IIS and Frontpage... well, not really....
22:07 < jZed> for a variable definition of "next"
22:08 < perlm> Python2 will probably be ran on Parrot 99% of the time anyways :D
22:08 < perlm> So lusers can take their pretty whitespaces and non-native regexs and still user Perl6.
22:09 < preaction-m> Perl6 is not Parrot :p
22:09 < preaction-m> Parrot is bytecode, like java bytecode
22:09 < perlm> I know....but it is being developed for Perl 6
22:09 < preaction-m> Parrot also has interpreters for a whole slew of other languages
22:09 < perlm> I know.
22:09 < perlm> that is what I was saying about Python running on parrot most of the time.
22:10 < perlm> kind of crazy to think there will be a common layer where almost everyone's libraries can play nice together.
22:11 < preaction-m> it could've happened with java, if sun made interpreters/compilers for other languages into java bytecode
22:11 < preaction-m> and it is happening with .Net
22:11 < maxscience> hey I'm back
22:11 < maxscience> yeah I know the Perl 6 stuff
22:12 < maxscience> but, as of now, the typical hello world web app contest is won by Python
22:12 < maxscience> you code things faster
22:13 < preaction-m> print "Hello, World!\n"; # huh?
22:13 < preaction-m> oh, web, sorry
22:13 < maxscience> eheh yep.. I'm talking about full web app
22:13 < perlm> Look, you know of the Lisp IQ test?  Perl is kind of like that.  It is dense, hard to follow, but very powerful.  If you need things at a llittle slower pace, no one is going to say "that's a bad idea".  But don't knock the power users.
22:13 < preaction-m> print "Content-type: text/plain\n\n","Hello, World!\n"; # what?
22:13 < jZed> use CGI; print CGI::header(), "hello world"
22:14 < preaction-m> ew, i hate using CGI for HTML generation :p
22:14 < maxscience> lol CGI
22:14 < preaction-m> you can't talk about "hello, world" and a "full web-app" in the same sentence...
22:14 < jZed> I was golfing :-)
22:14 < preaction-m> orly
22:15 < maxscience> I can
22:15 < preaction-m> they're two different concepts...
22:15 < perlm> maxscience care to play golf on a Perl/Python hello world where the language also provides the webserver?
22:15 < maxscience> for "full web app" I meant how much it takes for the whole process to be done
22:15 < maxscience> Lines Of Code, Configuration, etc.
22:15 < preaction-m> sockets and all?
22:16 < maxscience> As an example, in J2EE you need XML configuration, Lines of code, server restarts, etc.
22:16 < maxscience> for a simple hello world
22:16 < preaction-m> but we're comparing Perl and Python
22:16 < maxscience> I know.. It was an example
22:16 < preaction-m> using CGI, both are pretty much the same. load the CGI module, print a header, print a string
22:17 < maxscience> eheh with Zope you don't need that
22:17 < maxscience> just the html code
22:17 < jZed> same with Mason or PHP
22:17 < maxscience> you can do hello world pretty much with 1 line
22:17 < maxscience> PHP is unsecure
22:18 < jZed> if you're running Mason via mod_perl a "hello world" for the web is just: hello world
22:18 < maxscience> Mason needs tweaks to be as fast as python and it's an hassle to admin
22:18 < perlm> maxscience did you come here to just try to kill off the competition?  Opensource software thrives because of a diverse ecosystem.  There is room for WebGUI and Zope you know?
22:18 < preaction-m> any language is as secure as the code you write on it
22:19 < maxscience> heh perlm don't take me wrong.. I chose WebGUI as my CMS.. Just wanted to get your opinions on the matter
22:19 < preaction-m> PHP is BAD as a language, doesn't mean you can't write good apps in it
22:19 < maxscience> But afterall, it reduces to a Perl fanboys vs Python fanboys
22:19 < preaction-m> perlbot BAD
22:19 < perlbot> Broken As Designed - There comes a time when it's easier to start from scratch.
22:19 < maxscience> I'm no fanboy that's why I can think freely lol
22:19 < preaction-m> so why are you persisting in the holy war?
22:20 < maxscience> it's not meant to be an holy war... Till you're thinking it that way
22:20 < maxscience> anyway you're from plainblack?
22:21 < preaction-m> basically thus: when it comes to perl and python i have no opinion either way, I use Perl because I know Perl
22:22 < maxscience> yeah that's the thing..
22:22 < perlm> I rely to much on CPAN to switch to Python.  Too many powerful libs lacking in Python.
22:22 < preaction-m> and when Perl finally becomes viable for applications programming (thanks to Parrot), I will keep using
22:22 < maxscience> Anyway I'm looking forward to Perl 6
22:23 < perlm> There is a great Perlcast on 6.
22:23 < maxscience> Plone community is just much bigger than WebGUI community... And Plone is a fairly new CMS
22:23 < perlm> or maybe it was a cnet cast
22:23 < maxscience> one reason is that it's much simpler to install
22:24 < preaction-m> i think for the most part, wG community has been rather secular
22:24 < perlm> Does Python have web templating?
22:24 < preaction-m> in just a few short weeks, this channel has doubled in size
22:24 < maxscience> sure it has
22:24 < preaction-m> any language more than two weeks old has web templating :p
22:24 < maxscience> trough Zope or TurboGears
22:24 < ckotil> preaction-m: true. i bet it keeps growing
22:25 < bipolar> ok. I'm going to try one last thing. I'm going to try to move my old, broken site to a new webgui instance. I have the new instance running and it seems to work. I've exported my old style to a package.
22:25 < maxscience> heh preaction.. Just login to the plone channel.. 172 users now... Here 12
22:25 < maxscience> And usually there are about 6
22:26 < maxscience> But the issue it's not really about the IRC channel... It's about Contributions
22:26 < ckotil> the difference has got to be plainblacks business model
22:26 < ckotil> its a business...MAN
22:26 < maxscience> yeah that's right
22:28 < jZed> other languages have lots more user oriented apps than perl, but perl has more developer oriented modules, it's not just webgui, perl in general doesn't face towards users by default
22:28 < maxscience> yeah that's right
22:28 < preaction-m> there's also that Perl is more oriented towards individualism it seems
22:28 < maxscience> and that makes it an old-fashioned language
22:28 < preaction-m> hell, before i got hired, i wrote my own web framework
22:28 < preaction-m> old-fashioned, it's as old as I am
22:28 < preaction-m> learning curve too
22:29 < preaction-m> Perl6 won't be the magic hammer that fixes the Perl community, but I've got a few ideas I'd like to see to help Perl itself
22:29 < maxscience> preaction-m: you're developing calendar enhancements for WebGUI?
22:29 < preaction-m> enhancements nothing, i'm rewriting the whole damned thing
22:30 < maxscience> nice... With iCal/vCal and CalDAV in mind? ;)
22:30 < preaction-m> iCalendar from the start
22:30 < maxscience> any ETA?
22:30 < preaction-m> my first draft is due monday
22:30 < ckotil> My group is really going to appreciate this preaction-m 
22:30 < maxscience> oh so you're pretty much done?
22:30 < preaction-m> nowhere near
22:31 < preaction-m> i'm pulling 14+ hour days until then
22:31 < maxscience> so how much till the end more or less? :)
22:32 < bipolar> main::http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=undef - Couldn't execute operation : WebGUI::Operation::User::www_editUser. Root cause: Can't call method "get" on an undefined value at /usr/local/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Auth/LDAP.pm line 212.
22:32 < bipolar> *sigh*
22:32 < bipolar> how the heck did that wikipidia crap get stuck in there?
22:33 < bipolar> gah
22:33 < maxscience> lol no idea
22:33 < preaction-m> i'm hoping i get a weekend, i had plans...
22:33 < bipolar> main::[[undef]] - Couldn't execute operation : WebGUI::Operation::User::www_editUser. Root cause: Can't call method "get" on an undefined value at /usr/local/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Auth/LDAP.pm line 212.
22:34 < preaction-m> bipolar: what's on that line?
22:34 < bipolar> it was an option in konverstation
22:34 < perlm> maxscience why did you chose WebGUI over Plone?
22:34 < bipolar> my $connection = $ldapLink->get;
22:35 < bipolar> preaction-m: I have no ldap users.
22:35 < preaction-m> bipolar: then ldap should be disabled as an authentication method in your config file
22:35 < bipolar> preaction-m: nor do I want webgui/ldap integration at this point. it shouldn't even be looking for it.
22:35 < bipolar> preaction-m: crap... let me see if thats there....
22:35 < maxscience> well for the time I evaluated Plone, it was not mature enough and it lacked some features... Also some issues about templating flexibility
22:36 < perlm> but now you think it is better?
22:36 < maxscience> WebGUI really needs to jump in the AJAX bandwagon asap
22:36 < maxscience> for some aspects, it's a lot better
22:36 < perlm> It is moving towards Ajax very rapidly.
22:36 < perlm> already has a lot of Ajax.
22:37 < preaction-m> we just included Yui to standardize the core JS library
22:37 < bipolar> preaction-m: jeez... how did I miss that.... the weird thing is I had that on for both sites, but only this one gives me errors.
22:37 < maxscience> not enough... JT chose the WebGUI ajax tookit about 2 weeks ago
22:37 < maxscience> yeah YUI
22:37 < perlm> At least he went with YUI
22:38 < preaction-m> also, ajax is overused imho. it's used in place of POST when POST should be done
22:38 < maxscience> he asked the "community" some feedback on that.. Everyone said "go for scriptaculous+prototype" and he went YUI lol
22:38 < maxscience> well "WebGUI" it's a pretentious name... And the GUI of the web now is ajax... Web 2.0
22:40 < preaction-m> when POST isn't right, use ajax. example: the calendar will have a button to immediately grab new feed data, using an ajax call
22:40 < ckotil> cool
22:40 < preaction-m> web2.0 is a crap buzzword, but then so is ajax for that matter
22:40 < preaction-m> but ajax works better than XMLHttpRequest
22:40 < maxscience> it's not crap
22:41 < preaction-m> it is crap, web 2.0 is nothing new. it's just that finally the awesome innovations that certain sites have created are being mainstreamed
22:41 < perlm> YUI is the best AJAX framework out there, easily.  And if you start talking about documentation, it because blantantly obvious.
22:41 < maxscience> it's nothing new, but it's not crap ;)
22:42 < maxscience> and implementations are pretty new anyway... That matters for end users
22:43 < maxscience> look at that http://www.plainblack.com/user_contributions/user_contributions/assets/jshttpproxy-1.2
22:44 < ckotil> oh hell yeah.
22:44 < ckotil> ive been waiting for that
22:44 < maxscience> it's HttpProxy with AJAX... I proposed to merge it with the actual one
22:44 < ckotil> i need to try that out, see if i can use that in places where i was forced to use iframe
22:45 < ckotil> i was unable to use httpproxy bc of our CAS authentication. with jshttpproxy, the users web browser will be retrieving the data rather then webgui so the authentication should be passed along A OK.
22:45 < ckotil> i hope. that sound reasonable?
22:47 < bipolar> preaction-m: thanku,thanku,thanku! I can now make changes and commit them. I can also access my user settings again. Now I have only one more issue unresolved.
22:48 < bipolar> I think I may have some incompatible tinyMCE plugins or something else that is messing up my edits. This site has been upgraded all the way up from 6.4 or so.
22:49 < bipolar> It's not saving formating of text. specificly, alignment and styles.
22:49 < maxscience> rich edit and image manipulation in Plone is just MUCH better
22:49 < bipolar> OMG
22:49 < bipolar> I don't give a rats about plone right now.
22:49 < maxscience> I'm not talking to you :D
22:51 < jZed> hmm, my daughter just IM'd me this course descriptiion from the University of Washington : LING 270  Introduction to Perl Programming for Linguists (5)  Bender %~ 
22:51 < jZed> Fundamentalprogramming techniques, including data types, control flow, regularexpressions, file handling, GUI design, and CGI interaction. Contentrelates to a variety of linguistic concepts including syntax,morphology, phonology, lexicon building and foreign language corpora.No previous programming necessary; however, a background in generallinguistic theory is assumed.
22:52 < maxscience> hah universities use to teach old languages :D
22:52 < jZed> The title: LING 209 Introduction to Perl Programming for Linguists
22:53 < maxscience> Perl syntax is such non-user friendly that I find it hard for linguists
22:53 < maxscience> although it might perform what they need just fine
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22:59 < ckotil> http://weathermap.grnoc.iu.edu/nlrmaps/layer2.html 9.9 gbps !!!!
23:00 < maxscience> The webgui custom modules for TinyMCE really need some overhaul.. Like the Image Editor....
23:00 < ckotil> supercomputing 2006 is going on right now in tampa, FL . and all the research and education networks are having speed tests
23:00 < ckotil> http://nlrsc06.grnoc.iu.edu/
23:01 < maxscience> hah
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23:03 < maxscience> heh have to go
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23:30 < bipolar> preaction-m: any idea what might be causing the editor to drop formating?
23:35 < bipolar> If I bypass the editor and just edit the html directly the changes do get saved, so it must be the editor.
23:43 < bipolar> It's only affecting this one site on this webgui install. the other sites editor works fine.
23:54 < bipolar> well.... I'll have to try to find the problem later. It's time to go home.
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01:24 <+crythias> heh. Britney's divorced. Now her husband is Fed-ex.
01:25 < Radix_> *groan*
01:25 < jZed> ups, you did it again
01:25 <+crythias> it's a taste of a poison'd paradise.
01:26 <+crythias> heh. what's this? $perls
01:26 <+crythias> it's a string of perls
01:27 < jZed> what's this?  s/i/i/g;
01:27 < Radix_> i for an i
01:27 <+crythias> an I for an i
01:27 < jZed> ... the old testament </rimshot>
01:28 <+crythias> heh. http://search.cpan.org/~jwoodyatt/conjury-1.004/Core/cast
01:29 <+crythias> cast spells
01:29 < Radix_> just don't give up your day jobs guys :)
01:30 <+crythias> :)
01:31 < jZed> if I gave up my day job guys, I'd have to work
01:32 <+crythias> Graphics Programming in Perl http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2002/07/23/review.html
01:32 <+crythias> just sayin'.
01:35 <+crythias> http://search.cpan.org/~tonyc/Imager-0.54/Imager.pm
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02:16 < perlm> wow, it only took about 1 minute to install Plone.
02:25 < perlm> Besides Perl, can anyone tell me why WebGUI is better than Plone?
02:29 < jZed> we had that discussion once today
02:29 < jZed> the plone supporters mentioned UI and ease of install and community
02:30 < jZed> even if plone is good, perl deserves a plone, so webgui++
02:33 < perlm> I just wonder if all the interesting new developments are moving away from Perl.
02:33 < jZed> some are, some aren't
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02:37 < perlm> yeah, plus I just like Perl
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03:58 -!- Radix-wrk changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI (stable: 7.2.1) || Need help? Ask and wait patiently (it might take awhile)
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05:11 < preaction-m> they labelled it stable? yay!
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11:08 < maxscience> mmh the update script fails to get the mirrors list
12:13 < maxscience> pls vote "Everywhere" on this Poll http://www.plainblack.com/support
15:34 < ckotil> i ran into that when i tried to install webgui on a windows machine
15:46 < maxscience> oh.. And how you got it sorted?
15:47 < ckotil> i didnt
15:47 < ckotil> it failed and so did i
15:47 < maxscience> lol
15:47 < maxscience> But it worked the day after?
15:47 < ckotil> i only tried once
15:48 < maxscience> I see
15:51 < Radix_> err.. just try it again.. it's probably your link not getting the file
15:51 < ckotil> ill give it a shot
15:53 < ckotil> I want to see web2.0 JS EVERYWHERE 
16:01 < maxscience> heh I tried 10 times and at different times
16:02 < Radix_> actually.. as much as I like ajax, I don't think it should be everywhere.  Some things don't warrant it, and nor do you want all the baggage that would come with it.
16:03 < Radix_> would be nice to have a neat framework that we could all work with though.. should we want to reload an object or do something on the fly
16:03 < maxscience> I want it everywhere :P
16:04 < Radix_> why?
16:04 < maxscience> because it allows to fix WebGUI UI which is bad
16:05 < maxscience> compared to other CMSs like Plone
16:05 < maxscience> WebGUI needs to jump in the AJAX bandwagon asap
16:06 < maxscience> for example... The draggable content JS WebGUI has right now it's not compatible with Safari. If plainblack replaces that with the YUI Ajax equivalent, it'll work
16:07 < maxscience> using ajax can also mean better compatibility not just worst compatibility
16:07 < maxscience> not to mention the other cool things you can do with it
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18:34 < perlm> Preaction, how's the calendar going?  Kicking butt?
18:35 < jZed> it would be, but he forgot to mark this week as a work week on his calendar
18:36 < perlm> DOH!
18:49 < ckotil> How can I upload ~100 files efficiently? filepile would take all day
19:04 <+crythias> zip
19:04 <+crythias> or create a passthru upload dir. like.. um.. uploads
19:05 <+crythias> funny thing is, you can make a subdir of uploads and dump anything you want there.
19:05 <+crythias> of: in
19:05 <+crythias> ckotil
19:16 < ckotil> ok.
19:16 < ckotil> i tried to use the zip asset
19:16 < ckotil> i zipped up all the files and uploaded the zip but then i cant do anything with the files inside the zip
19:18 <+crythias> it should have unzipped the lot and assigned assets to them. but the other is *easier*... create a folder under /uploads and ftp stuff to it.
19:19 <+crythias> then ref site/uploads/file.ext
19:20 <+crythias> er. site/uploads/myfolder/file.ext
19:21 < ckotil> ok. i like that way better.
19:22 < ckotil> well...i really would like to have the files as assets tho. im migrating our weekly reports into webgui
19:22 < ckotil> the process is pretry painsteaking and manual
19:22 < ckotil> with webgui someone can simply turn on admin mode and add a file. DONE
19:23 < ckotil> i made this nice template and macro to rewrite the file name into part of the link description
19:23 <+crythias> well, there is this multiple file upload java applet..
19:24 <+crythias> but I haven't suggested it work with WebGUI atm.
19:24 <+crythias> http://sourceforge.net/projects/jupload/
19:24 < ckotil> k. what kind of asset shoudl i be in when uploading the zip asset?
19:25 <+crythias> shouldn't make a difference. 
19:25 < ckotil> hrm.
19:25 < ckotil> bc ive tried page layout, and folder.
19:25 < ckotil> the zip just remains a zip.
19:25 <+crythias> I mean, seriously, if the zip upload works, it should work.
19:25 < ckotil> k
19:25 < ckotil> does it handle tar?
19:25 < ckotil> i made the zip on my mac.
19:25 < ckotil> im wondering if that is fucking it up
19:25 <+crythias> prob not.
19:25 <+crythias> prob has to be pkzip zip
19:26 < ckotil> ill try that. thx
19:26 <+crythias> np
19:27 <+crythias> tar seems to be valid
19:28 < ckotil> coo
19:30 < jZed> I'm going to be setting up a community that provides a specific, limited WebGUI site for each member.  Any pointers to how to automate that and how to do comm\unity-wide analytics, searches, etc?
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19:35 <+crythias> you mean like demo.plainblack.com?
19:35 < jZed> yeah, I suppose that's an example
19:36 < jZed> though it doesn't do any community-wide analytics or searches, does it?
19:36 <+crythias> not really. it's per db
19:36 < jZed> and also, it presents the full WebGUI to each user
19:37 < jZed> whereas we'd want a specific template with common look/feel and a restricted set of admin options
19:37 <+crythias> 'kay.
19:37 <+crythias> but you wouldn't necessarily easily sync user config between main/sub webgui sites. no heirarchy
19:37 < jZed> am I wrong in thinking that WebGUI can be made to work that way?
19:38 <+crythias> depends on what your limits are.
19:38 <+crythias> in general, no. 
19:38 < jZed> what kind of limits?
19:38 <+crythias> a customized addsite script 
19:38 <+crythias> with a  preconfigured limitation on the access levels...
19:39 <+crythias> and possibly even a configured mysql dump of a skeleton webgui instance to redistribute..
19:40 < jZed> right, those are the kinds of things I was thinking
19:40 <+crythias> not unreasonable.
19:40 <+crythias> the key is what are your restrictions to impose?
19:41 < jZed> to start each user will have a profile, a blog, a photo gallery, and a video gallery and nothing else
19:42 <+crythias> mmkay. do you need them to have an entire webgui instance or can you give them their own group?
19:42 < jZed> we'd control navigation so the members shouldn't have ability to muck with menus
19:42 < jZed> Could you explain how it would be done with groups?
19:43 <+crythias> a user is created and (at the moment, it has to be done manually, but I've been rfe'ing this forever) a user is assigned to his own group.
19:44 <+crythias> a deployed package can be assigned access rights (edit, etc) from this group.
19:44 <+crythias> read: this user's group has edit rights to the deployed package instance.
19:45 <+crythias> admin is always a member of every group, but you could also add Content Managers (if you have multiple content mangers/ helpers  that can change any site)
19:46 < jZed> So there'd be a generic user and members would belong to that user's group and create their mini-sites as pages within that user's area and all would be one VH and one DB?
19:47 <+crythias> no..
19:47 <+crythias> a real user has his own group
19:47 < jZed> ah, but is *also* a member of the macro-group?
19:49 < jZed> # sorry I'm clueless about groups
19:50 <+crythias> no.
19:50 <+crythias> hrm..
19:50 <+crythias> an asset has a group that can edit that asset.
19:50 <+crythias> only members of that group can edit that asset
19:51 <+crythias> a group that is assigned to the asset needs members.
19:51 <+crythias> a group that has only the one user has only the user as eligible to edit.
19:51 <+crythias> administrator is a default member of every group, so admin can't be restricted from any other group activity.
19:52 <+crythias> a package can be created that has only the assets as part of the package..
19:52 <+crythias> this package can be deployed under a defined directory structure.
19:53 <+crythias> once deployed, this deployment instance's edit group can be configured to a person's unique edit group.
19:55 < jZed> ok so each member still has their own site/db but it is pre-populated with the package
19:56 < jZed> or am I still lost?
19:56 <+crythias> no separate db, unlesss that's what you want.
19:57 <+crythias> my question to you is this: what constitutes a "site" to you?
19:57 < jZed> hrm, I'd prefer one db, how would that be done?
19:57  * crythias whimpers silently.
19:59 < jZed> For now a site is [one profile page, one blog, multiple photo and video galleries] with ability to set perm levels for any of those, eventually forums, calendars, feeds, etc. would be optional add-ons to a site
20:00 < jZed> # if you're whimpering because of my cluelessness, sorry, I'll read up on groups right away
20:00 <+crythias> would it be acceptable to do a la myspace.com/users/username?
20:00 < jZed> yes, for sure, that's what we'd want
20:00 <+crythias> do you know how to make a package?
20:01 < jZed> not yet, but I grok the idea and don't anticipate troubles there
20:03 < jZed> I should explain: I'm architect for a big project, we had intended to roll our own in Mason, but because of time limations I decided to try WebGUI instead, I've had all of three days experience actually using WebGUI, but my 14+ years as a perl developer (and my team also) should help
20:03 < jZed> I just don't know yet how much can be done directly with WebGUI and how much we'll have to do via customization
20:07 < jZed> if we have to customize, my hope is that it will be via subclasses we can eventually contribute back to CPAN or wherever
20:10 <+crythias> but you do understand why users get their own groups in Linux, right?
20:12 < jZed> um, yes
20:12 <+crythias> apparently, this is considered a security risk (?) in WebGUI.
20:15 <+crythias> http://www.plainblack.com/etcetera/cant-instanciate-template
20:15 <+crythias> sorry
20:15 <+crythias> http://www.plainblack.com/etcetera/use-isolation/security
20:18 < jZed> thanks, that's helpful
20:18 < jZed> I'm still unclear on the relation between a system user/group and a WebGUI user/group and what grouping would have to do with the VHs and DBs
20:19 <+crythias> system user/group is analogy
20:19 < jZed> k
20:19 <+crythias> nothing but a "why should there be auto user-group in WebGUI"
20:20 <+crythias> grouping is alternative to vh/db
20:20 < jZed> that's the part I don't get yet
20:21 <+crythias> I realize I get terse in my statements, but I don't understand your issue.
20:22 <+crythias> figure a group as an access control ...
20:22 < jZed> and I'm sorry to be clueless ... what would be the steps in setting up a new member's site in terms of the db?
20:22 <+crythias> don't
20:22 <+crythias> just deploy a package
20:22 <+crythias> which you don't understand at the moment :)
20:22 < jZed> right
20:22 <+crythias> it's not a filesystem deploy. it's an asset [group] deploy
20:23 <+crythias> it happens completely within the WebGUI um.. UI
20:23 <+crythias> one sec
20:24 <+crythias> http://www.plainblack.com/?op=viewHelp;hid=packages%20using;namespace=WebGUI
20:24 <+crythias> a Package becomes the same as "Article"
20:25 <+crythias> How do you add an Article?
20:25 <+crythias> same way as a Package.
20:25 <+crythias> :)
20:26 < jZed> um, ok, I more or less see how to do it with packages, what I don't understand is what is being done ... what does adding a package do to the DB?
20:26 < jZed> and/or the filesys
20:26 <+crythias> what does adding (deploying) an article do to the db?
20:27 <+crythias> the point is.. do you care?
20:27 < jZed> um yes, if I need to do community-wide searches, tagging, and analytics, I do care what happens to the DB :-)
20:28 <+crythias> let me rephrase the question.. does it matter to those things what happens if you add an article to a webgui install?
20:28 <+crythias> the answer is: no.
20:28  * jZed whimpers silently
20:29 <+crythias> why doesn't it matter?
20:29 <+crythias> because all those things query the same db.
20:29 <+crythias> the packages are just simple ways of adding multiple assets at once... such as a photo gallery, a forum, a profile page, etc.
20:30 <+crythias> and you'd add them at a url point for a user.
20:30 <+crythias> inside the big webgui instance.
20:30 <+crythias> and you'd give them their own permissions in that sub-world within the original WebGUI deployment
20:31 <+crythias> and because the original WebGUI deployment is the same database with a bunch of additional asset instances, it becomes nothing to the search function to find what's in the database.
20:32 <+crythias> note: we're talking about asset instances, not webgui instances, and not VH
20:33 <+crythias> and not additional databases
20:33 < jZed> so instead of multiple joe_host.domain, sue_host_domain MySQL databases, there's only a webgui_host_domain database
20:33 <+crythias> yeah
20:34 <+crythias> and their urls will be webgui.domain/users/username
20:34 <+crythias> but you can always tweak apache to try to map username.webgui.domain to webgui.domain/users/username if you wish.
20:34 < jZed> and that will work for millions of users?
20:35 <+crythias> beats me. I don't have millions of users to try it on.
20:35 < jZed> I'll let you know :-)
20:35 < jZed> # not that I have a million users now either
20:35 <+crythias> and I don't have an automated way atm to do it. that'd be something that a macro or a post
20:36 <+crythias> post-registration activity can do.
20:36 <+crythias> but if your infrastructure can handle the single db with lots of users, it should be fine. That's when you have a reverse proxy front end, though.
20:37 <+crythias> which, incidentally, appears to be how WRE is configured.
20:40 < jZed> so essentially a user would register, a script would add them to the site-group and their own group and create dirs/urls for their assets and add the pre-prepared package to their assets
20:41 <+crythias> that's the idea. and no messy additional dbs
20:41 < jZed> very nice, I was hoping for something like that
20:41 <+crythias> we cool?
20:42 < jZed> you cool!
20:42 <+crythias> wonderful. 
20:42 < jZed> my CTO may prove to be glad I recommended WebGUI yet :-)
20:44 < jZed> thanks for your advice
21:12 < preaction-m> there's a runOnRegistration thing too, that can run any arbitrary program (that could set up that subdomain redirect, deploy the package, create the user's group, etc...)
21:18 < ckotil> anyone know where this template is located within the import node? http://globalnoc.iu.edu/abilene/support/weekly-reporting3.html?op=auth;method=logout
21:21 < jZed> thanks Doug, that should help
21:22 < preaction-m> ckotil: you mean the login template?
21:24 < ckotil> is that what that is?
21:24 < preaction-m> it's telling me to log in
21:24 < ckotil> Ive tried to editing it in the past, but didnt see any results.
21:24 < ckotil> yeah.
21:25 < ckotil> thats what im talking about, the login template
21:25 < ckotil> We dont use usernames/passwords on my site, I want to add the CAS login button to that template
21:27 < preaction-m> go to /root?func=manageAssets , go to Search, type in "Login" and select WebGUI::Asset::Template
21:27 < preaction-m> the one you want says Default WebGUI Login Template, i believe
21:27 < ckotil> ok. thanks
21:28 <+crythias> part is logout, part may be the Settings->UI
21:31 <+crythias> perlbot help
21:31 < perlbot> (fact)::tell (who) about (what)::(what) > (who)::learn (what) as (info)::relearn (fact) as (info)::phone (phone number)::shorten (url)::shorten it::search (module)::docs (module)::perldoc -f (function)::jargon (term)::math::fortune::flip::host (type) (record)::rot13::roll (die)::tempconv (temp)::scramble (foo)::8ball::slap::diss::what time is it::top/bottom (number) karma::geoip (ip)
21:33 < ckotil> thats the one preaction-m , thanks
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21:57 < ckotil> yikes. JSHttpProxy broke my dev server
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05:34 < Radix-wrk> woot.. WRE 0.7.2 finally released
05:35 -!- Radix-wrk changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI (stable: 7.2.1) WRE (0.7.2) || Need help? Ask and wait patiently (it might take awhile)
05:47 <+crythias> sigh
05:47 <+crythias> I had to update my faq
05:48 <+crythias> btw... WRE saved my skin in upgradeing a 6.2.11 old version.
06:00 < Radix-wrk> oh?  how so?
06:05 <+crythias> dropped it in, installed the IKC stuff and then.. upgraded from 6.2.11 slowly.
06:06 <+crythias> until 6810, it was good, but I did all this before reading that 7.2.1 can't upg from 6810
06:06 <+crythias> which I actually read about 15 minutes ago
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06:22 < perlm> ah...I just installed 7.2.0(beta) 4 days ago.  And 7.2.1 stable is out?  I've only had this a week and now I have to figure out how to upgrade :P
06:39 < perlm> that may have been one of the least painful upgrades ever.
06:39 < perlm> we likeses.
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08:34 < Radix-wrk> anyone know if there's a macro or some way in the nav template to get the last updated time for a given page?
08:36 < Radix-wrk> looks like I might need an updated ^LastModified() macro.. but one that takes a given webgui asset url and then works it out
08:43 < Radix-wrk> Well.. that was easy.. LastModifiedPage.pm macro is born..
08:47 < Radix-wrk> means you can create perfect sitemap.xml files with a simple navigation template now :)
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17:47 < ckotil> crythias: You mentioned adding a passthru url beneath /data/www/uploads/ . Can I have the files that get uploaded there automatically become assets?
17:50 <+crythias> um. passthru url isn't (I think) necessary for /uploads
17:50 <+crythias> because it probably already is.
17:50 <+crythias> besides that, no, it can't be an asset because it's a passthru
17:51 <+crythias> there is another .pl I think in WebGUI/sbin that is also supposed to convert files to assets
17:51 <+crythias> fileImport.pl
17:52 <+crythias> unf. it seems to be pics
17:52 <+crythias> jpg jpeg png gif
17:52 <+crythias> but that can be potentially changed by your own hand.
17:57 < ckotil> oh perfect. thanks
18:11 < ckotil> http://www.fresh99.com/messy-networks.htm
18:14 <+crythias> wow. http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/cubegoodies/8b4e/
18:15 <+crythias> is that water?
18:15 < ckotil> yes :/
18:16 <+crythias> this.. scares me.
18:17 <+crythias> http://www.gwy2.org/photos/index.php?album=%2FFBCN%2F&image=DCP_0107.jpg
18:18 < ckotil> nice and neat
18:18 < ckotil> the water thing happened here in one of our server rooms 
18:19 < ckotil> instead of permanatly fixing the problem the physical plan installed sensors to tell us when water was gathering
20:35 < ckotil> is there  a reason why http://noc.nlr.net/media/nlr/images/nlr-peering-wl2.pdf works in safari and IE but not ff?
20:35 < ckotil> in ff it shows source.
20:35 < ckotil> http://noc.nlr.net/public/uploads/4g/x3/4gx3aMPGNE5gxTddBGtmzw/nlr-peering-wl2.pdf works however.
20:36 < ckotil> is there a MIME setting im overlooking?
20:41 < perlm> I'm frick'n pumped.  Just got the go ahead to install WebGUI on a test box at work.  We start moving our website into the portal after the break.  
20:43 < ckotil> nice
20:44 < perlm> Yeah.  I'm looking forward to porting all my online surveys into WebGUI and then never having to write another servey again.  I can just give the researcher permission to create their own.
20:44 < ckotil> heh
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23:06 < Jiggie> brb
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23:56 < perlm> preaction, how goes the calendar?
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02:40 < perlm> perlbot < 3
02:40 < perlm> perlbot <3
02:40 < perlbot> bullshit, I'm way more than 3
02:40 < perlm> perlbot help
02:40 < perlbot> (fact)::tell (who) about (what)::(what) > (who)::learn (what) as (info)::relearn (fact) as (info)::phone (phone number)::shorten (url)::shorten it::search (module)::docs (module)::perldoc -f (function)::jargon (term)::math::fortune::flip::host (type) (record)::rot13::roll (die)::tempconv (temp)::scramble (foo)::8ball::slap::diss::what time is it::top/bottom (number) karma::geoip (ip)
02:41 < perlm> perlbot what time is it
02:41 < perlbot> Sat Nov 18 16:41:23 2006 Pacific Time
02:41 < perlm> perlbot leave
02:41 < perlbot> The Cure goes into the Perl Black-Hole...
02:48 < jZed__> perlbot, when will perl6 be out?
02:49 < jZed__> ah, see - no answer for that one
02:49 < jZed__> # I cheated
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08:23 < Troobloo> i am building a website, i need to allow registered users to create their own page and upload photos, and audio files. i want to create a page for this with forms and radio buttons to make it simple for the users, any suggestions?
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09:02 < Radix_> Yes, wait around longer if you expect an answer
15:25 <+crythia1> making webgui into myspace is going to take some doing.
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18:57 < perlm> Troobloo was funny
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22:52 < perlm> Anyone know the price range for new website themes from PlainBlack?
22:53 < perlm> Surely I should be able to get a custom theme and a few icons for a couple hundred dollars, right?
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18:33 < jZed> wre install should be done as root, right?
19:00 <@preaction-m> definately yes
19:00 <@preaction-m> most admin scripts for the WRE require root as well
19:00 <@preaction-m> mainly for file permissions, which might benefit from changing (perhaps a "wre" user?)
19:01 < jZed> thanks, I think if I can just get mod_proxy behaving I'll have it up and running 
19:52 < jZed> ok, got mod_proxy set ok I think, added "demo" to /etc/hosts
20:01 < jZed> but now when I hit the server, I get "Fatal Internal 
20:03 < jZed> where the heck are the plain httpd error logs? in /data/wre/prereqs/apache/logs I see only modproxy.error.log and modperl.error.log
20:03 <@preaction-m> there are two servers? thus two error logs?
20:04 < jZed> so, when I get "Fatal Internal Error" which log do I look in? 
20:05 <@preaction-m> look in both, i'd start with modproxy though, since that's the first server that's reached
20:05 <@preaction-m> then modperl
20:05 <@preaction-m> then webgui.log
20:05 < jZed> I looked in all three of those and couldn't find an error with a timestamp for now
20:06 <@preaction-m> might be an apache problem, did you restart after you changed the config
20:06 <@preaction-m> are you using the appropriate hostname?
20:06 <@preaction-m> were it a wG problem, there would be something in either modperl log or webgui.log
20:07 < jZed> hmm, ok, now I get an error in the logs .. apparently MySQL doesn't recognize the hostname
20:07 <@preaction-m> is not localhost and/or 127.0.0.1 in your /etc/hosts?
20:08 < jZed> yes and set to demo
20:08 <@preaction-m> how about the site.webgui.conf
20:09 < jZed> it lists mysqlhost=myhostname
20:09 <@preaction-m> lists?
20:09 <@preaction-m> what's the entire dsn
20:10 < jZed> oh hmm, it's looking on port 3306 which is another mysql instance
20:25 < jZed> I should be able to run /data/wre/prereqs/mysql/bin/mysql, from the command line shouldn't I?
20:25 <@preaction-m> yes
20:25 <@preaction-m> source in /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment
20:25 < jZed> yeah, did that
20:25 <@preaction-m> . /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment
20:26 <@preaction-m> then which mysql
20:26 < jZed> ah, yes, good
20:26 < jZed> ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/data/wre/prereqs/mysql/mysql.sock' (2)
20:26 <@preaction-m> mysql.sock probably isn't owned by the mysql user
20:27 <@preaction-m> in fact, the entire directory should be owned by the mysql user
20:29 < jZed> that would be the adminuser defined in /data/wre/etc/demo.conf?
20:29 <@preaction-m> no, the user that mysql run's as
20:29 <@preaction-m> which should be mysql
20:29 <@preaction-m> the system user
20:30 <@preaction-m> do a ps aux | grep "mysql" <- should tell you what user the /data/wre mysql is running as
20:30 <+crythias> yeah and if you don't have a mysql user (which vanilla installs of OS don't), you're going to have issues.
20:33 <+crythias> read wre/docs/install.txt
20:34 < jZed> mysql is running as root
20:34 <+crythias> then it's already installed?
20:34 < jZed> the wre mysql, that is
20:35 < jZed> everything is installed, rc.webgui start reports success
20:35 <+crythias> sigh
20:36 <+crythias> yeah.
20:36 <+crythias> mysql never reports erros 'cause it goes to /dev/null
20:41 < jZed> ps aux lists wre/..../mysql.server start --defults-file=/data/wre/prereqs/mysql/my.cnf but there is no such file
20:41 <+crythias> 'cause you didn't run setup
20:41 < jZed> well, I did
20:42 <+crythias> if you did, then MySQl would have crapped out during setup
20:43 <+crythias> and... where is your my.cnf?
20:43 <+crythias> it gets created/updated with setup
20:43 < jZed> well, apparently it didn't
20:43 < jZed> I guess I should rerun setup
20:44 <+crythias> do you have a user in /etc/passwd called "mysql"?
20:44 < jZed> yep
20:44 <+crythias> is there an /etc/my.cnf?
20:44 < jZed> yes
20:44 <+crythias> get rid of it
20:44 <+crythias> rename it. whatever
20:45 <+crythias> or do you have mysql already running additionally?
20:45 < jZed> will that impact the 5 other mysql instances running on this prod server?
20:45 <+crythias> yes.
20:45 < jZed> :-)
20:45 < jZed> I thought it might
20:45 <+crythias> in that case...
20:46 <+crythias> you can put your db in your existing mysql and ignore the wre/sbin/rc.mysql 
20:46 <+crythias> because it won't work.
20:46 <+crythias> unless you change the 3306 port to something else.
20:46 < jZed> I set the mysql port to something else in wre setup
20:47 <+crythias> what can I say? if you're ignoring what the wre docs say, you'll get what you get.
20:48 < jZed> crythias, thanks alot for your help # but can the sarcasm please
20:48 <+crythias> fair 'nuff. the WRE is supposed to be used for OS without apache, mysql, etc.
20:49 <+crythias> and webgui's designed to be the only thing running on the box. If you want to retrofit WebGUI, start from source, not wre.
20:49 < jZed> ok, I guess that was my mistake
20:51 <+crythias> if you think *I'm* sarcastic, you have thin skin, and obviously aren't reading the dev list.
20:51 < jZed> I can still use e.g. the perl from wre (cause CPAN failed to install a bunch of the prereqs when I tried installing from source)
20:51 <+crythias> sure. as long as the lib is included properly.
20:51 < jZed> well, I'm not going to die from the sarcasm but it sure ain't a way to build community
20:52 < jZed> and seriously, I do appreciate your help
20:52 < jZed> if it comes with sarcasm, so be it :-)
20:52 <+crythias> you might want to see about the Include in preload.perl
20:52 < jZed> can I run a demo site with the source install?
20:53 <+crythias> I don't understand the intent of the question.
20:54 < jZed> with wre if you choose demo, you get a site multiple people can create subsites on, how do I do that with a source install?
20:54 <+crythias> I didn't recall that being an option... I remember dev...
20:55 < jZed> If I remember setup first you choose dev/prod then it asks if you want to install demo
20:55 <+crythias> oh, yeah. um. ok...
20:55 <+crythias> we just had this conv with someone else.
20:55 <+crythias> not you/I=we, but ...
20:55 < jZed> setupDemo($setupType) unless ($isDev);
20:56 <+crythias> OK. my position: do you want a bunch of separate databases or do you just want to have one big happy family>
20:56 < jZed> one
20:57 <+crythias> I wouldn't recommend the demo setup.
20:57 < jZed> ah, ok
20:57 <+crythias> I'd give people their own group upon registration, and deploy a package for them.
20:58 <+crythias> right now, this isn't automatically a part of WebGUI, but seems to be a repetitive request.
20:59 <+crythias> this package deployment simply provides a set of assets at a location you designate.
20:59 <+crythias> in your master db
21:00 < jZed> so set up a single site, create a package, create a post-registration script that adds a user to a group, deploy the package for them
21:00 <+crythias> yep
21:00 <+crythias> with appropriate permissions.
21:00 < jZed> if I just want to experiment with my team, can I have them manually add themselves to their own group
21:00 <+crythias> groups aren't created spontaneously.
21:01 <+crythias> by the time you create a group, you might as well have members.
21:02 <+crythias> time [it takes] you [to] create
21:04 < jZed> well I need to get it up and running so that I can experiment with it to find out about groups and packages and such, so to begin with I just need something that I can run and that my team can run also without us stepping on each other, what's the simplest way to accomplish that?
21:11 < jZed> BTW, I just reread the Plain Black "Installation Options" and "WRE" and "Source Install" pages and none of them make any mention that one shouldn't use WRE with pre-installed apache/mysql ... 
21:11  * crythias whimpers.
21:12 <+crythias> no, I supposed I goofed on that.
21:12 <+crythias> simplest is obvious not happening the way you're doing now.
21:13 <+crythias> from my pov, I'd create the db, create a virtualhost, drop the appropriate info in the right places, and make sure the wre perl preqs are in my includes, both in testEnvironment.pl and preload.perl
21:16 < jZed> ok, and I'll forget about the demo as you advised
21:16 < jZed> can I ask what the showstopper is for using wre on machines with their own mysqls and apaches?
21:17 <+crythias> I don't know. however, mysql seems to be fixated on /etc/my.cnf, no matter if it belongs or not.
21:17 < jZed> I mean I'm gonna have to setup my own apache instance anyway
21:18 < jZed> my /etc/my.cnf is very minimal, I don't see why it should matter, it isn't specific to a port
21:18 < jZed> [mysqld]
21:18 < jZed> max_connections=250
21:18 < jZed> that's the whole thing
21:18 <+crythias> weirdness
21:19 < jZed> it's because the box has like 6 different mysql instances
21:20 < jZed> so I'm having trouble wondering why the wre mysql just can't be added to the mix
21:20 <+crythias> doesn't bother me. it would seem reasonable to change the setenvironment
21:22 < jZed> so would I be crazy to try to get wre working here? it seems like it has other advantages
21:22 <+crythias> I'm fine if you want to disregard everything I've said up to this point. 
21:23 < jZed> ok, I'm off to junk wre and do a source install, thanks
21:24 < ckotil> I run it from source
21:24 < ckotil> i like it.
21:24 < ckotil> Ive tried to do the wre on a couple of boxes and I could never get it working
21:24 < ckotil> fbsd 5.4, 6.1,  RHAS4
21:24 <+crythias> I did rhas4
21:24 <+crythias> had to add two cpan things.
21:24 < jZed> yeah I got the source install working on my home debian, but coulnd't get wre working either there or on my work RHEL4
21:25 <+crythias> IKC things
21:25 < ckotil> ah.
21:26 < jZed> someone should hit the ColorNames guy with a cluestick, hangs every time I try to testEnvironment.pl
21:26 <+crythias> yeah
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17:19 < jZed> ok, so I got everything installed from source, hit the site, logged in as admin, changed the name of "my company" and hit save, and got a blank page and now I can't get admin or anything, just a blank page ... so I'm thinking drop and recreate the database, rm and recreate the /data/domains/mysite/*
17:19 < jZed> logs showed problem with ImageMagic and Spectre both of which I now solved
17:20 <+crythias> you checked modperl.log and modproxy.log?
17:20  * crythias smacks himself
17:20 <+crythias> sorry
17:20 <+crythias> bad bad bad
17:20 < jZed> :-)
17:21 < jZed> a guy yesterday told me not to do WRE :-)
17:21 <+crythias> no, seriously, I apologize. brain seems to be elsewhere.
17:21 <+crythias> but...
17:21 < jZed> logs are clean now as far as I can tell
17:21 < jZed> there was the ImagaMagick and Spectre probs when I frist logged in
17:22 <+crythias> it wouldn't be unreasonable to drop, recreate the db, and reload the docs/create.sql
17:24 < jZed> ok, I'll give that a shot
17:30 < jZed> dang, same thing
17:30 < jZed> dropped and recreated the db
17:30 < jZed> got admin login
17:30 < jZed> logged in, changed name of my company, hit save, got a blank page
17:30 <+crythias> there's got to be something in webgui.log
17:31 < jZed>  Couldn't call method view on asset for url:  Root cause: Can't locate object method "get" via package "WebGUI::Storage::Image" at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Article.pm line 178.
17:32 <+crythias> let me check my faq
17:34 <+crythias> btw... where is your WebGUI dir?
17:34 < jZed> /data
17:35 <+crythias> this is a problem potentially with ImageMagick, I think
17:35 <+crythias> what does your testEnvironment.pl say
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17:37 < jZed> oh merde, Image::Magick problems
17:37 <+crythias> that makes sense to me.
17:38 <+crythias> if you can perl -e "use Image::Magick;" without errors, you're fine
17:39 < jZed> yeah I did perl -MImage...
17:39 < jZed> it isn't finding ImageMagick though I installed it last night
17:39 <+crythias> what OS again?
17:39 < jZed> RHEL4
17:39 <+crythias> rpm?
17:40 < jZed> I tried pointing at the WRE perl
17:40 < jZed> libs, but they're 5.8.8 and I'm on 5.8.7
17:40 < jZed> no not rpm, from tarball source
17:40 <+crythias> oh. well, it's a fast compile from source, if that helps any at all
17:40 <+crythias> you get the perl if you configure it.
17:41 <+crythias> if you don't ... you might not get it.
17:41 < jZed> I suppose that would work, how do I point things at that perl? in httpd.conf?
17:41 <+crythias> ?
17:41 < jZed> the WRE perl is working
17:42 <+crythias> mod_perl2
17:42 <+crythias> is compiled (I think) to talk to your system perl
17:42 < jZed> yeah, right
17:42 < jZed> so pointing at WRE perl won't help
17:43 <+crythias> :( sorry
17:43 <+crythias> if the include works, it works
17:43 < jZed> 'sokay, I'll go back to troubleshooting Image::Magic install
17:44 <+crythias> that'd be my suggestion, although, like I thought I might hav esaid, see what's in the includes in preload.perl
17:44 <+crythias> that is...
17:44 < jZed> well if perl -MImage::Magic fails ... 
17:44 <+crythias> but use the -I"/path/to/wre/libs"
17:45 < jZed> yes, I did that
17:45 <+crythias> what error?
17:47 < jZed> well if I include any of the platform/5.8.8 files, I get a version mismatch error
17:47 < jZed> XS files, of course
17:48 <+crythias> ok. but I didn't have a problem with compiling ImageMagick with perl support with the ./configure
17:49 < jZed> yes, that worked for me
17:51 < jZed> hmm, maybe I configured ImageMagic with my wre environ set so it got linked to the wrong perl
17:51 <+crythias> possibly, although you'd see that error.
17:51 <+crythias> but nonetheless, I think I'd have you up and running in a jiffy
17:52 < jZed> happen to know where ImageMagick stores its libs and includes?
17:53 <+crythias> hm.
17:53 <+crythias> perhaps it's best to log out of root and try a fresh path
17:54 <+crythias> you might make clean and then ./configure, then check its paths in the Makefile
17:54 < jZed> well Image::Magic wants to know the path to ImageMagic
17:54 <+crythias> that ...
17:54 < jZed> yeah, the Makefile
17:54 <+crythias> the ImageMagick source makes Perl::Magick/Image::Magick
17:55 <+crythias> http://www.imagemagick.org/script/install-source.php
17:59 < jZed> thanks, I'm re-configuring
18:01 < jZed> if you need any perlish or dbi help in return, just holler :-)
18:01 <+crythias> heh :)
18:01 <+crythias> I just hope I'm helping.
18:02 < jZed> yes, definitely
18:02 <+crythias> I'm not batting well so far.
18:05 < jZed> woot!
18:05 <+crythias> hee
18:05 < jZed> re-made ImageMagic, got into my site, thanks
18:05 <+crythias> :)
18:06 <+crythias> that made sense to me.
18:25 < jZed> ok, back to making you whimper :-)
18:25 <+crythias> ?
18:25 <+crythias> you didn't start spectre
18:25 <+crythias> or it's not communicating
18:27 < jZed> no, it's all working , now I'm back to my conceptual problems: I still do not get the relation between a site, a member, a group ... I want new people to be able to sign up, and then have a site they can manage
18:27 <+crythias> that's not automatic, btw... you have to develop that yourself.
18:28 <+crythias> but the parts are there.
18:28 < jZed> can I do it manually, i.e. create users X,Y,Z and give them sites?
18:28 <+crythias> first, from the main page, create a Page Layout
18:29 <+crythias> give it a url of template
18:29 <+crythias> like /users/template
18:29 <+crythias> in this template page, add the asset types that you'd like in your package
18:30 <+crythias> in the page layout edit... you can click one of the tabs and "create a package"
18:30 <+crythias> then, yes, you can add a user, create a group for that user, and then add that user to the group.
18:31 <+crythias> from the main page, you can then deploy the created package with a given URL (I forget at the moment how that exactly works, but trial and error won't kill you :)
18:32 < jZed> great, thanks, that's plenty to get me started
18:32 <+crythias> then you mass update the package at the /users/user1 level and tell it to give edit perms to the user1group
18:34 <+crythias> don't forget the webgui.conf.original has info on restricting what can be seen by users (UILevel) and make certain users with sites have minimum UILevel but raise the UILevel for stuff they shouldn't see.
18:34 <+crythias> that should be: have a minimum required UILevel
18:34 < jZed> one more big picture question for you ... we are going to need sandboxes for a bunch of developers, a development staging area, a production site ... any tips on how to set all that up?  sandboxes as just members on the dev site, a separate webgui instance on the prod box?
18:34 <+crythias> I'd consider that.
18:35 <+crythias> however copy/paste to the prod box is ... well, it's better because there's an export package functionality (not the same as site export) 
18:35 <+crythias> I've not used it, but it's supposed to be the way to make and distribute themes, etc.
18:36 <+crythias> nonetheless, a sandbox could simply be a hidden area that doesn't show on your nav
18:36 <+crythias> for people who aren't in your sandbox group.
18:36 < jZed> that makes sense
18:39 < jZed> ok, here's a wild one ... can we run Mason (full, not standalone) and WebGUI, I know we can call Mason standalone form webgui, but I'm asking about e.g. having a Mason WebApp that handles some things in addition to what WebGui handles
18:39 <+crythias> do you need cross polination auth?
18:40 < jZed> probably, what is it ? :-)
18:40 <+crythias> does the mason auth need to know that the user is a legit webgui user?
18:40 < jZed> yep
18:41 <+crythias> the short answer is almost always "yes" but the long answer is how do you expect the mason app to know this?
18:42 < jZed> mason starts up, creates a WebApp object ... in a wG template, the WebApp is called with params passing wG session info to it ...
18:43 < jZed> # off the top of my head
18:43 <+crythias> btw you can use wsclient I think or soap to do some things...
18:43 < jZed> this is all so we can leverage our prexisting mason code
18:44 <+crythias> You can always iframe it. :) :)
18:44 <+crythias> or directly link
18:45 < jZed> I was thinking along the lines of creating a Mason::Template plugin so instead of HTML::Template, the templates would be mason components
18:46 <+crythias> sec
18:47 <+crythias> this was done a while ago, but no way it will work with 7.2.1 as is http://www.plainblack.com/mason_script__wobject#uOwFpELismsIDmxRSUVlvQ
18:49 < jZed> unless I'm misunderstanding, making a Wobject is a bit different from making a different templater, but that's good stuff for me to look at
18:50 <+crythias> yes, this is server side code
18:50 < jZed> hee, three hits from  grep -ilr jzucker wre/prereqs/perl/*
18:54 < jZed> though it's not stuff you probably actually use
18:56 <+crythias> I must confess, no. :(
19:16 < jZed> made a page layout "User Package" with url users/template, said yes make it a package ... committed ... created a template "users/template" ... but how to add assets to the template?
19:16 <@preaction-m> another possibility could be HttpProxy
19:16 <+crythias> btw.. I was confusing ...
19:16 <@preaction-m> jZed: you'll probably want to create a folder, make a bunch of assets inside the folder, and then make the folder into a package
19:17 <+crythias> yeah. I just used the word template in an unauthorized use of the word, as it relates to webgui.
19:17 <+crythias> I used the word template in this case when I should have used the word "skeleton"
19:17 <+crythias> or scaffold
19:18 < jZed> aha, and the skeleton is a folder of assets which goes in the package 
19:19 <+crythias> yeah. create your skeleton before your package
19:22 < jZed> btw, I have a very detailed log of my source webgui install, would it be useful to you?
19:23 <+crythias> not detailed. but you're welcome to check out my faq
19:25 < jZed> your faq was great and the log is pretty much just an exapnsion on it (and I reordered the steps so that instead of bouncing around, you do things one at a time - perl setup, apache setup, spectre setup, webgui dirs setup, mysql setup
19:26 < jZed> plus it includes some mistakes I made that people might want to watch out for :-)
19:29 <+crythias> that's exactly why I made the faq
19:29 <+crythias> the thing is, newbie errors are just as important to troubleshoot as real bugs
19:29 < jZed> yep
19:29 <+crythias> unfortunately, they tend to get lost in forums.
19:30 <+crythias> which is why I made the FAQ. 
19:30 < jZed> k, maybe I missed the FAQ, are you talking about the Plain Back Install from Source pages?
19:30 <+crythias> uh-uh
19:30 <+crythias> no
19:30 <+crythias> http://www.gwy2.org/cgi-bin/fom
19:32 <+crythias> btw.. I don't work for plainblack. I'm just a guy.
19:32 <+crythias> but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
19:32 < jZed> very cool, thanks for the FAQ, looks great
19:32 < jZed> and thanks for all your help, I thought you were a PB
19:34 < jZed> oh man, that FAQ is nice, how'd I miss it?
19:34 < jZed> crythias++
19:35 <+crythias> I dunno. googling webgui faq
19:35 <+crythias> (same one)
19:36 <+crythias> within reason, most of the common questions are answered. Heck, I even reference it time to time...
19:43 < jZed> ok I have a folder made into a package,  how do I add assets to it? go to package then new content? any way to add all at once?
19:44 <+crythias> deploy the folder, add assets, package folder
19:45 < jZed> what does deploy mean in that context?
19:45 <+crythias> it means you shouldn't have made a package without adding assets first
19:45 <+crythias> but then you deploy a package the same way as deploy assets
19:46 < jZed> ah, create folder, use new content to add assets to it, make it package, later deploy that package for other users
19:46 <+crythias> but I recommend page layout instead of folder
19:46 < jZed> but only way to add assets is one at a time?
19:47 < jZed> that's great when I want a minimal UI
19:47 <+crythias> except when deployed as a package
19:47 < jZed> but right now I want sandboxen for my team so they should have everything
19:48 <+crythias> should they need a poll and photogallery in their package or should they be allowed to add that at their leisure?
19:48 <+crythias> how much time will they spend deleting stuff in a package?
19:48 < jZed> duh, ok I see, for the admin people, they don't really need a package, they just add stuff themselves from the panel
19:49 < jZed> or they need a minimal package to start?
19:49 <+crythias> that is a question that you must answer
19:50 <+crythias> at minimum, IMO, they should have a page layout with permissions only for the dev group en masse or per developer.
19:50 <+crythias> either the dev group have the same sandbox or multiple devs have their own sandbox...
19:50 < jZed> ok, sounds right
19:51 < jZed> I'd want multiple devs with their own
19:51 <+crythias> so their "site" will be a Page Layout with the devuser1group having edit permissions.
19:51 <+crythias> devuser2group, etc.
19:52 <+crythias> what stuff they have access to on the admin bar is based upon devuser1's UILevel and config options in yourdomain.conf
19:52 < jZed> and what they do on their "site" has no impact on the main site itself or the other sandboxes
19:53 <+crythias> only the standard latency of database.. :)
19:53 <+crythias> but, cosmetically, no.
19:53 < jZed> excellent
19:53 <+crythias> as long as you have the permissions set properly.
19:54 <+crythias> btw, the permission model is explicit and not minimum or inherited.
19:54 <+crythias> sorta.
19:54 <+crythias> that is, if you say "Visitors" are the group that can can view a site, "Registered Users" won't be able to do that.
19:56 <+crythias> Admin is a member of every group.
19:57 <+crythias> membership of a group is always explicit by direct membership or subgroup membership. 
19:58 < jZed> so in my case, I would be Admin with full rights to the main "site"; the devs would be admins with full rights to their own sites, but not to main; we could have a staging area where all devs have rights
19:58 <+crythias> yes
19:59 <+crythias> but again I point to the UILevel... if a user's UI level isn't high enough, they won't be able to do specific things in the admin console.
19:59 < jZed> right, devs are 9guru, I'll figure what lower one I want later for users
20:01 < jZed> should I make an explicit link on the page layout package for devs that goes to the 'main site"?
20:01 <+crythias> chances are, that may already be part of the default layout's navigation.
20:01 <+crythias> default page layout
20:01 < jZed> ah, sure
20:04 < jZed> and the page layout should be "hide from nav" so the devs can get anywhere on the nav but only they can get to their sandbox
20:04 <+crythias> well..
20:04 <+crythias> doesn't have to be hide from nav
20:05 <+crythias> why, gerald, why?
20:05 < jZed> oh right, just don't give view perms
20:05 <+crythias> bingo
20:05 < jZed> excellent
20:06 < jZed> so we can navigate to each others sandboxes but the public will never see any of it
20:06 <+crythias> well...
20:06 < jZed> if I do the groups right
20:06 <+crythias> you might consider a devviewgroup
20:06 <+crythias> containing all devuser#groups
20:07 <+crythias> or actually only devusers
20:07 <+crythias> no point in subgrouping at this level.
20:07 <@preaction-m> to be honest though, wouldn't it be best to have a dev server? development could potentially stop/crash the entire system
20:07 <@preaction-m> or are these just design devs?
20:07 <+crythias> sure.
20:08 <+crythias> design devs. app devs should have their own box.
20:08 <+crythias> 'cause they'll be stopping and restarting apache constantly.
20:08 <+crythias> unless using Apache::Refresh or something
20:08 <@preaction-m> or using Apache2::Reload
20:08 <+crythias> that
20:08 <@preaction-m> i think i'd die without it :p
20:08 < jZed> for now it's all just dev, eventually yes, two different boxes
20:09 < jZed> btw, I know I'll need to stop/restart apache and spectre all the time, but there's nothing that will impact other apaches or the shared mysql or the box as a whole is there?
20:10 < jZed> I have a separate webgui-apache instance
20:10 < jZed> this is unfortunately a prod box for other stuff
20:11 < jZed> and dev box for us
20:13 <@preaction-m> no, the only apache you'd have to restart would be wG's modperl one, and only to reload the modules, which is why Apache2::Reload works well
20:13 < jZed> great
20:13 <+crythias> he's not using wre, but the rest is valid
20:14 < jZed> but I am using mod_perl and Apache2::Request
20:14 <@preaction-m> even if not using the wre, the apache instance that is running wG/mod_perl is the one that needs to be restarted
20:14 <+crythias> 'xactly
20:15 < jZed> right, my webgui-apache is completely separate and has it's own start/stop
20:16 < jZed> and I'm sharing the mysql with the prod stuff from the other clients but that shouldn't matter since everything's within my_site_com database, right?
20:16 <+crythias> yes
20:18 <+crythias> unless you decide to stop mysql :)
20:18 <+crythias> but why would you want to do that?
20:19 < jZed> I think I'll go by the "then don't do that" advice :-)
20:19 <+crythias> I mean... it's not as if rc.webgui stops mysql every time...
20:19 <+crythias> oops.
20:19 <@preaction-m> sshh! you've said too much!
20:20 < jZed> yeah, well I don't plan on running rc.webgui :-)
20:20 <+crythias> (it's part of WRE)
20:20 < jZed> yeah I know
20:21 < jZed> and I know it stops the db
20:22 <+crythias> btw: preaction-m, it's not unreasonable to at least *try* to grep mysql /etc/passwd before trying to continue setup
20:22 < jZed> heh, I did that
20:23 <@preaction-m> if i had free range to actually work on the WRE, it would be getting better :p, that's JT's pidgin
20:23 < jZed> also make sure there isn't a prexisting mysql database named my_site_com
20:23 <+crythias> I was thinking we could rename SPECTRE to CHAD
20:23 <@preaction-m> right now he's trying to figure out if he can compile static binaries for all linux-type systems
20:23 <@preaction-m> Can't Handle Anything Decently?
20:23 <+crythias> just thinking about it hanging.
20:24 <+crythias> preaction-m: I am trying to work on a VM image on top of *gasp* smoothwall.
20:25 <+crythias> unfortunately, the worst of it is that the RHEL4 apache install is compiled on 2.3.6 glibc and the smoothwall has 2.3.2 glibc
20:26 <+crythias> but the mysql binary does work, after much library updates.
20:27 <@preaction-m> yet another distro i've never heard of but seems nice
20:27 <+crythias> not exactly a distro per se. more like a hardened linux that acts as a firewall.
20:28 <+crythias> of course, I'm stretching its intentions fairly hard by trying to install WRE RHEL on it..
20:28 <+crythias> hmm. maybe I should be successful with RHEL3...
20:29 <+crythias> if I trust that RHEL3 is in 2.3.2, that should work nice.
20:30 <@preaction-m> to upgrade the WRE, all you have to do is untar the new over the old and run setup again, no?
20:30  * preaction-m sometimes feels unworthy of his @
20:32 < jZed> there's no prob if I upgrade some of the supporting libraries ... e.g. get the latest YUI.js 
20:32 < jZed> in extras/ or wherever it is
20:32 <@preaction-m> might break existing stuff, maybe better to put it in a different part of /extras
20:33 <@preaction-m> i suppose i should inquire about how we're planning on keeping Yui up-to-date
20:33 < jZed> k, I could do that and test
20:33 < jZed> yeah YUI is fortunately a fast moving target
21:22 < jZed> what's the easiest way to rearrange site structure e.g. if I want to move "getting started, your next step" etc. into a submenu called "WebGUI Info Pages"
21:27 <@preaction-m> use the copy/paste functions of the clipboard
21:27 <@preaction-m> on the asset manager admin console page
21:27 < jZed> cool, thanks
22:06 < jZed> hmm, well that seems to copy page layouts, not the assets on them, is there a way to move a whole page and all of its assets somewhere else?
22:07 < ckotil> cut & paste should work recursively
23:22 < perlm> ckotil yes, it should work that way everywhere.
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23:37 <+crythias> seele u l8r
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--- Day changed Wed Nov 22 2006
00:32 <@preaction-m> perlbot phone 6142554500
00:32 < perlbot> Phonenumber.com listing for (614) 255-4500:  The game manufacturers association, 280 N High St, Columbus, OH 43215
00:57 < jZed> can I make http://mysite.com/  behave the same as http://mysite.com/home? Settings Default Home Page doesn't do that
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03:23 < jZed> I have set up a site and sandboxes for my developers, I am a happy camper, thanks preaction++ and crythias++ for your help
03:39 < Radix-wrk> I used virtualpc/vmware for my sandboxes
03:40 < Radix-wrk> really easy to do with the wre I found :)
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03:46 <+crythia1> jZed: cool on a rope.
03:48 <+crythia1> darnish
03:48 <+crythia1> Radix_ are you responsive?
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03:56 <+crythia1> hey
03:57 <+crythia1> um. do you know what smoothwall is, Radix?
04:08 < Radix-wrk> yah
04:09 < Radix-wrk> it's a linux based firewall appliance really - linux distro specifically designed as a firewall/router
04:09 < Radix-wrk> much like ipcop, etc
04:09 <+crythia1> I'm trying to somehow patch webgui into it.
04:09 < Radix-wrk> lol
04:09 <+crythia1> specifically, into a vmplayer.
04:10 <+crythia1> image
04:10 < Radix-wrk> Hmm.. sounds like a decent job
04:10 < Radix-wrk> I haven't played with smoothwall/ipcop for years myself
04:10 <+crythia1> hint: rhel4 is not working 'cause of glibc
04:11 <+crythia1> that is, rhel4 wre
04:11 < Radix-wrk> yeah.. smoothwall is pretty ancient kernel/system wise I'll bet
04:12 <+crythia1> just ancient enough to be stable.
04:13 < Radix-wrk> what kernel is it using?
04:14 <+crythia1> 2.3
04:14 <+crythia1> 2.4
04:14 < Radix-wrk> and using libc6 or something I expect
04:15 <+crythia1> 2.3.2
04:15 <+crythia1> but rhel has 2.3.6
04:16 <+crythia1> I am trying the rhel3 wre now. 
04:17 <+crythia1> the big thing was that there were some libc++ things
04:17 <+crythia1> mysql ran ok after I added appropriate dependencies.
04:17 < Radix-wrk> Well good luck with it.  I've not ever really delved into that kind of thing before.
04:18 < Radix-wrk> I'm playing with OS's of a different kind here.. just installed the final Windows Vista on my desktop and giving it a go for day to day work.  (and testing our software/installers at the same time)
04:18 <+crythia1> it's kinda weird... i'm feeding the libs piecemeal
04:19 < Radix-wrk> So.. the big question.. why?
04:20 <+crythia1> :)
04:21 < Radix-wrk> On that note.. I do think webgui needs a vmware appliance for it.  That would rock.
04:22 < Radix-wrk> vmware server + webgui appliance = damn fast install for nothing
04:23 <+crythia1> hm... firewall+proxy+content filter+email filter+webgui+full firewall control
04:23 <+crythia1> for nothing?
04:23 < Radix-wrk> vmware server = free, webgui = free
04:24 <+crythia1> oh. I thought you meant for no reason ... for some reason
04:25 < Radix-wrk> must be aussie slang "for nothing" = "for no cost"
04:25 < Radix-wrk> :)
04:25 <+crythia1> no, I could understand if I actually paid attention.
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16:10 < ckotil> ugh. it took 30 minutes for a commit version to be processed. and it was only 1 stinking (45k) html file that was uploaded
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17:38 < ckotil> my sites get pounded by people asking for smileys_pack.php   . i know it must be an exploit. anyone seeing this?
17:38 < ckotil> [Wed Nov 22 15:37:59 2006] [error] [client 66.103.152.111] File does not exist: /gnoc/globalnoc/htdocs/WebGUI/www/extras/smileys_packs.php
17:38 < ckotil> [Wed Nov 22 15:38:11 2006] [error] [client 140.114.71.129] File does not exist: /gnoc/globalnoc/htdocs/WebGUI/www/extras/smileys_packs.php
17:38 < ckotil> and it goes on like that for miles
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19:11 < jZed> hey perlm, congratulate me, I have a dev site up and running
19:12 < perlm> that is awesome!
19:12 < perlm> Got WRE working?
19:13 < jZed> I almost had it working but crythias told me I shouldn't use it on a box with other apaches and mysqls so I went for the source install
19:13 < jZed> I have a dedicated apache/mod_perl for wG but it shares the mysql with other apps
19:15 <+crythias> ckotil: um. did you simply try googling smileys_packs.php?
19:15 <+crythias> the very first thing is "PHP remote file inclusion vulnerability in images/smileys..."
19:15 < ckotil> ya. i got some good info on it
19:15 < ckotil> nothing too useful
19:16 < ckotil> just dont run phpmyteam , or whatever it is
19:16 <+crythias> I believe you could use mod_rewrite or somesuch to block requests from those requesting that file.
19:16 < ckotil> ah, interesting. now that is useful. thanks
19:16 < jZed> do you know how hitting / gives a wG page with a login but hitting /home gives a plain login over your own home page?  Anyway to make / behave the same as /home?  mod_rewrite?
19:17 < perlm> cacheing
19:17 < perlm> caching
19:17 < perlm> hit reload on the page
19:17 < ckotil> or try going to /home?func=manageAssets
19:17 < ckotil> see what that brings up
19:18 < ckotil> sounds like access to the asset is being prevented
19:18 <+crythias> mod_security ?
19:18 < perlm> I just tried / and /home on my server and got the exact same page....but if I login into /home I would have to manually reload / so it would acknolwedge my login.
19:18 < jZed> yeah, reload works, but what about new users?  when I tell my CEO to go look at the site, I want them to see the site as the first thing, not an ad for wG
19:18 <+crythias> change the start page in ui
19:18 <+crythias> settings
19:19 <+crythias> sorry
19:19 < perlm> turn off caching
19:19 < jZed> been there, done that, start page and error page are both set to Home
19:19 < jZed> in settings
19:19 < perlm> unless you are getting multiple hits per second, it is just burning cpu time.
19:19 <+crythias> oh, yeah, and I know this happens with IE
19:19 < jZed> this is FF
19:20 <+crythias> I've noticed credential cacheing problems with WebGUI...
19:20 <+crythias> ckotil: http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/apache/2003/11/26/mod_security.html
19:20 <+crythias> usually, though, a f5 will recognize.
19:21 < perlm> force SSL :)
19:27 < ckotil> thx
19:28 <+crythias> should be noted that there apparently is a mod_security2 for apache2...
19:39 <@preaction-m> did you commit your changes?
19:49 < jZed> .oO(if my .conf tells wG not to handle .mas files, and my apache knows .mas files should be handled by Mason, and I use template incldue to include a .mas file in a wG page ... )
19:50 <+crythias> perlhandler WebGUI mucks a lot up. use passthruUrl config option.
19:52 < jZed> I figure I'd have a perlhandler WebGUI and a perlhandler Mason and passthruUrl .mas for wG, and then template include the .mas in a wG template
19:52 <@preaction-m> i don't believe you can just passthru certain files, you need an entire directory
19:53 <+crythias> there's also a possibility to <Location>SetHandler ... something</location> in your vh
19:53 < jZed> yeah, I could do it with /mason/* instead of *.mas
20:02 < jZed> if I edit a built-in template e.g DropMenu on a subpage, that only alters it for the subpage, not for the whole site, right?
20:02 <@preaction-m> don't edit built-in templates
20:02 <@preaction-m> make new ones
20:02 < jZed> makes sense
20:03 <@preaction-m> built-in templates can be overwritten by upgrades (when we find bugs in them)
20:03 <@preaction-m> even if it's just copying the built-in one and changing a single character, it's far safer
20:03 < jZed> so my changes would still have the bugs :-)
20:03 <+crythias> if you edit a template it affects every instance that uses the template.
20:03 <@preaction-m> but it's markup, you can do markup no?
20:04 <@preaction-m> from experience though: keep wG updated. set aside a day or two each month to do upgrades.
20:04 < jZed> markup, is that like when you elevate one of the gospel writers?
20:04 <@preaction-m> HTML, the M is for Markup :p
20:04 <+crythias> yeah.. next is lukeup and then, if you're really good, johnup
20:05 <@preaction-m> nobody ever talks about judasup...
20:05 <+crythias> I thought I saw him hanging around somewhere...
20:09 < jZed> groups are really cool, creating a group X for user X to restrict editing to that user, etc. ... I wonder how I'd go about making a group for "the friends of X"
20:09 <+crythias> they are members of x
20:09 <+crythias> group x
20:10 < jZed> well I'd want X for just the user and XF for friends of user so e.g. X could edit and XF could view, and everyone else can't view
20:10 <+crythias> or they are members of friends of x, but what's the point? friends of x are viewers or editors. if they're editors, they're part of group X 
20:10 <+crythias> yeah.
20:11 <+crythias> so.. two groups pp, then.
20:11 < jZed> and figure someway to automate it so when X invties Y to be a friend, that auto adds Y to XF
20:12 <+crythias> give 'em the link...
20:12 <+crythias> groupadd macro
20:12 < jZed> and user-creation auto creates both X and XF
20:12 <+crythias> but shh.. don't share
20:12 < jZed> groupaddmacro, that's the ticket
20:13 < jZed> so the only thing I need to do is make X and XF and a groupadd link part of the package which gets deployed for all new users
20:17 < jZed> I don't need to explicitly add the Admin nick to groups, do I?
20:17 < jZed> even if I remove Admins from groups in this group
20:50 < jZed> I created group jzucker-friends with "users can add/remove selves" checked, I put a macro in an article: GroupAdd('jzucker-friends','please be my friend'); ... logged in as user not in that group, but there was no button :-(
20:51 < jZed> if you guys mind me talking to myself like this, please let me know :-)
21:02 < jZed> and help macros list of available shows GroupAdd() as available
21:24 <+crythias> um.
21:25 <+crythias> jZed: admin is default a member of every group. groups don't inherit the rights of their members.
21:25 <+crythias> you shouldn't remove admin from a group.
21:25 <+crythias> and macros need to be called as: ^Macro(param);
21:28 < jZed> didn't remove admin from group, removed Admins from Groups in this Group, and ^GroupAdd('join','click to join'); is valid syntax, no?
21:36 <+crythias> seems like. I gtg do something...
21:36 < jZed> k, thanks, bye
21:58 < jZed> is there a way to define who can insert a macro in a page?
21:59 <@preaction-m> not that i'm aware of
21:59 < jZed> so all macros are available to everyone?
21:59 <@preaction-m> certain assets are sanitized
21:59 <@preaction-m> you'd probably have to add sanitation to other assets
22:00 < jZed> so something like Execute() is off by default for a reason :-)
22:01 < jZed> and SQL()
22:14 < ckotil> probably. its pretty easy to create a macro to do basically the same thing
22:14 < ckotil> wobject is a bit tougher
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--- Day changed Thu Nov 23 2006
01:51 < jZed> is a macro an asset? i.e. could I put it in assetAddPrivilege in .conf? if it doesn't work that way, it should, if a macro is listed in there, only people of the specified UI level can use the macro though everyone who can view the page can view the results
01:59 <@preaction> a macro is just a piece of text, how can you stop a person from entering certain text?
02:01 < jZed> you don't, you stop the app from interpreting the text unless the person who entered the text is of a certain UI level so they enter ^SQL(...); but all that happens is it prints ^SQL(...);
02:01 <@preaction> so you're supposed to keep track of who entered the macro into the article?
02:02 <@preaction> the macro isn't interpreted THEN stored, it's stored THEN interpreted
02:02 < jZed> you must already know the name of the person submitting the new or changed article
02:02 < jZed> so don't store it
02:02 < jZed> if the person is the right UI
02:02 <@preaction> but macros have dynamic data, they need to be stored
02:03 < jZed> if the person is correct UI, store it, don't if not
02:03 <@preaction> so if a person wants to change an article, but they can't use a certain macro, they just broke the macro
02:03 < jZed> ?
02:04 <@preaction> look at the database for your article, you'll see that the macro is in there as "^Macro();"
02:04 <@preaction> every time the template is processed, the macros are processed
02:04 <@preaction> this must be done because of dynamic data, such as session IDs, user IDs, etc...
02:04 < jZed> sure
02:05 <@preaction> so now if we decide to only allow certain people to submit assets with certain macros
02:05 <@preaction> anyone who is allowed to edit an asset with a macro they are not allowed to submit will break things
02:05 <@preaction> a person who IS allowed to submit that macro will have to go back and fix it
02:05 <@preaction> every time
02:05 < jZed> nope
02:06 < jZed> ok, nevermind, it's just an idea
02:08 <@preaction> you'll instead want to create a Wobject that will do what you want, checking permissions and the like
02:08 < jZed> yep
02:09 <@preaction> imho, the Macro system has reached the limit of its potential, and indeed has one major flaw that cannot be fixed (it's given a session object, not the asset object of the asset it's in)
02:10 < jZed> yep, needs both
02:10 <@preaction> just the asset, asset contains the session
02:10 < jZed> oh, then swell
02:10 <@preaction> the proliferation of the session object is near universal
02:11 < jZed> is there a feature like wikis have where you can mark a section for special parsing e.g. #pod# ... #/pod# would get run through pod2HTML
02:11 <@preaction> that would be a macro
02:12 < jZed> yeah, more or less, just easier to do because you don't need to put the content inside quotes
02:13 < jZed> is there anyway to hide the admin console completely from a user but still allow them to edit their own page?
02:13 < jZed> assuming save&commit is turned on
02:14 <@preaction> you could remove the ^AdminBar(); macros, but clicking Edit on an asset will still allow the console to be seen
02:15 <@preaction> in the future, the ^AdminBar(); may become the only Admin Console, and then that would work
02:17 < jZed> how about an auto-commit so when the user saves and commits it does the next step of saving the version tag automatically?
02:17 < jZed> # not that I think version tags are going to confuse users :-)
02:18 <@preaction> that would have to be built into the asset
02:18 <@preaction> like Post and Thread (and soon Event) assets have
02:18 < jZed> i c, that makes sense
02:19 <@preaction> You're building a myspace-like app, no?
02:20 < jZed> yep
02:21 <@preaction> I think your best bet might be to just make a Wobject for the user's administration, and this Wobject will do all the adding/editing of assets for the user. You can even use the Asset->getEditForm() to display the edit form outside of the admin console if desired
02:22 <@preaction> then you can use existing wG assets, and the major development will be only the administration part
02:22 <@preaction> each user would have their own instance of the administration that only they can use
02:23 <@preaction> you're going to have to neuter a lot of stuff though, because you won't want normal users doing certain things
02:23 < jZed> hmm, yes that would work eventually, at first I think I just want to give everyone a profile, a blog, a photo gallery, a video gallery, and not let them add anything else
02:24 < jZed> so they don't need any New Content, I can shut that off in .conf
02:24 <@preaction> but they need to edit content
02:24 < jZed> yep
02:24 <@preaction> and for that, they'll see things they should not be allowed to see
02:24 <@preaction> (such as the Admin console)
02:25 < jZed> but at UI all they see is assets and version tags and some harmless things
02:25 < jZed> UI 0
02:25 <@preaction> so those things do work
02:25 < jZed> I'd like for none of them to be there
02:25 <@preaction> never tried them
02:25 < jZed> oh wait
02:25 < jZed> if they have the assets button on the admin console
02:26 < jZed> maybe they can add assets from there, let me check
02:26 <@preaction> most likely
02:26 <@preaction> but there's no need to neuter that, give users POWER so they have a reason to switch from myspace
02:27 < jZed> that's a good point
02:28 <@preaction> to be honest i forgot that uiLevels existed, they'd work well and for what they couldn't cover (certain admin functions that must only apply to their section) make the administration Wobject
02:28 <@preaction> if you create a skeleton for them, hell, create a few different skeletons for them, they'll have something basic to grow off of
02:28 < jZed> yep
02:31 <@preaction> but when the user clicks "Edit", they still get the right side thing that says "Show Admin Console" no?
02:31 <@preaction> and that's what we're trying to get rid of?
02:31 < jZed> yep
02:32 <@preaction> you can make a wobject to handle that using the getEditForm() thing (i hope). make an instance of it, pass in the URL of the asset they're editing as a parameter
02:33 <@preaction> getEditForm should return a WebGUI::Tabform
02:33 <@preaction> the www_edit() method puts the Admin Console stuff around it iirc
02:35 <@preaction> yeah... that's probably going to have to be how it's done
02:35 < jZed> ok thanks, I'll have to play with Wobject a bit to understand what you said, but that gives me a direction
02:37 <@preaction> Assets can be assigned uilevels no?
02:37 < jZed> yes
02:37 <@preaction> so like, users can only see what assets their uilevel allows
02:37 <@preaction> okay
02:39 < jZed> cool
02:39 < jZed> if I set the UI for all assets to 9, they see assets in the admin bar but when they click it, they get permission denied
03:13 < jZed> well, I'm off, thanks for all your help, I'm feeling good about wG, was begining to doubt for a while, but it's slick
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04:01 < Radix-wrk> mornin'
04:01 <+crythia1> top of the bottom of the world to ya
04:02 <+crythia1> Oh, yeah.. you're not jZed :)
04:54 < jZed> I heard that :-) # sorry :-(
05:00 <+crythia1> hee
05:01 < jZed> I'll be givin back soon, so I don't mind taking a bunch now
05:01 < jZed> but also feel free to tell me to shutup whenever it's appropriate :-)
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05:09 <+crythia1> :)
05:10 <+crythia1> Can I just say that Fosters is a lousy beer?
05:11 <+crythia1> Just sayin'...
05:11 <+crythia1> Australian for smells like eggs.
05:16 <+crythia1> newest pet peeve: movie video ads that look like regular videos with no indication that they're not vids... stupid everything has triangles in the middle of circles.
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06:19 < Radix-wrk> crythia1, Of course Fosters is a lousy beer - why do you think we export it!
06:20 < Radix-wrk> We keep the good beers to ourselves :)
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11:03 -!- Radix-wrk changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI (stable: 7.2.2) WRE (0.7.2) || Need help? Ask and wait patiently (it might take awhile)
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16:07 <+crythias> Kangaroo steaks
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16:34 <+crythias> wow...
16:34 < Radix> kangaroo steaks are very nice actually
16:34 < Radix> more tender than beef, very juicy too
16:35 <+crythias> and since they're apparently as populous as rodents, this isn't a horrible thing... :)
16:35 < Radix> aye :)
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16:38 <+crythias> hmm
16:38 <+crythias> apparently there's an error in something..
16:39 <+crythias> EventManagemetnSystem
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17:54 <+crythias> preaction, preaction-m EventManagementBug on upgrade... do you know about it?
17:56 <+crythias> I'm beginning to appreciate Ruby on Rails a lot more...
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19:27 < jZed> ok, this has me really freaked out, I changed UI on settings from Admin Console to Help and now I only get a blank page when I go into settings so I can't set it back ... can I run some SQL to change that setting back?
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19:56 < jZed> Radix, my settings page disappeared (after I selected Help as Admin Console UI), can I turn it back on with SQL or .conf somehow?
20:00 < jZed> also all the editing pages are blank (can't edit anything at all)
20:02 < jZed> the entire site fubared with one click and no indication of how to get it back
20:13 < jZed> alright, "select * from settings where name = 'AdminConsoleTemplate' shows PBtmplHelp000000000001
20:13 < jZed> so I wonder what the value is for the normal admin console
20:25 < jZed> setting it to NULL doesn't help
20:30 < jZed> phew, grepped docs/create.sql and found PBtmpl0000000000000001
20:30 < jZed> did a mysql update on that row and I have my settings back
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21:21 < cap10morgan> what's the recommended way to access a different database (i.e. not the webgui one) from a wobject?
21:21 < cap10morgan> the guy who wrote this code is just doing "use DBI;" and connecting to it (it's the same server, just a different schema)
21:21 < cap10morgan> but that seems... wrong, somehow
21:44 < cap10morgan> ah, i should be using a database link
21:44 < cap10morgan> :)
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--- Log opened Sun Nov 26 08:48:00 2006
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19:13 < perlm> Are production machines supposed to be keeping pace with all these stable releases?
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23:35 < ckotil> what group must a user be in to turn be able to view the asset manager?
23:36 < ckotil> All i can figure is that they have to be an Admin
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00:25 < JIggie> yoooo
00:25 < JIggie> peoples
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00:25 < Jiggie> xdanger
00:25 < Jiggie> u must klnow this
00:26 < xdanger> do tell
00:33 < Jiggie> ok
00:33 < Jiggie> i upgraded a 6.2.11 site to the latest
00:33 < Jiggie> now i have a small issue
00:34 < Jiggie> the old site=running redhat= hostname company
00:34 < Jiggie> new site=redhat es4=hostname company1
00:34 < Jiggie> when i go to copmpany1 the main page shows fine
00:34 < Jiggie> but everylink points to company
00:34 < Jiggie> instaead of company1
00:34 < Jiggie> how can i change then sitewide
00:36 < Jiggie> xdanger, did u get that
00:37 < xdanger> Jiggie: that is in the configs, sitename or something...
00:37 < xdanger> or you could trigger the setting in you admin console setting to use the env-setting
00:40 < Jiggie> how
00:41 < Jiggie> i dont see it on the admins console
00:44 < Jiggie> which file do i have to look
00:46 < xdanger> admin console -> settings -> Miscellaneous -> Host To Use
00:46 < xdanger> your siteconfig file
00:48 < Jiggie> instead of Env http host
00:49 < Jiggie> then what do i do with that
00:49 < xdanger> env http host should work
00:49 < xdanger> you did have that in there?
00:49 < Jiggie> they dont work
00:49 < Jiggie> which file should i look for
00:50 < xdanger> that reads the sitename from your apache config
00:50 < xdanger> are the links hardcoded in your data?
00:50 < Jiggie> let me check
00:52 < Jiggie> the file still has the old copmany instead of company1.com unser webgui/etc
01:18 < Jiggie> now i have this issue
01:18 < Jiggie> Can't call method "prepare" on an undefined value at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm line 446.
01:21 < Jiggie> anyone
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15:46 < ckotil> what group must a user be in to turn be able to view the asset manager?
16:19 <+crythias> it may be a UI level issue.
16:26 < ckotil> ah. ill check that
16:26 < ckotil> i had to add the user to admin, which i didnt want to do
16:27 < ckotil> nah he still needs to be Admins
16:29 < Jiggie> i just tried that also
16:29 < Jiggie> and admin seems to work
16:29 < Jiggie> i guess i must trust the user
16:29 < Jiggie> lol
16:30 < Jiggie> crythias, when u get back im
16:31 <+crythias> jiggie ok
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20:21 < Jiggie> yoo
20:21 < Jiggie> anyone around
20:21 < Jiggie> that can hlp me
20:22  * jZed is around, dunno if /me can help
20:22 < Jiggie> how can i fix this
20:22 < Jiggie> Can't call method "prepare" on an undefined value at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm line 446.
20:23 < jZed> you don't have a database connection
20:23 < Jiggie> but mysql starts fine
20:23 < jZed> or are trying to prepare something other than an sth
20:23 < jZed> what caused it?
20:23 < Jiggie> well webgui says mysql started fine
20:23 < Jiggie> the hard got full
20:24 < Jiggie> no more space
20:24 < Jiggie> and it stoppped working
20:24 < jZed> clean up space, shutdown apache and spectre, restart them?
20:24 < Jiggie> i did
20:24 < Jiggie> still
20:25 < jZed> so when does the error occur?
20:25 < jZed> you enabled the SQL macro?
20:26 < Jiggie> nope
20:26 < Jiggie> it just happens when trying to go to the page
20:26 < Jiggie> the page does not come up
20:26 < Jiggie> we had this issue a while back when the power went out
20:26 < Jiggie> but did so many things cant remember how to fix it
20:27 < jZed> can you run mysql from the command line?
20:28 < jZed> oh, and did you look at /var/log/webgui.log? 
20:28 < Jiggie> i tried but it says cound not find mysqld PID
20:28 < jZed> what OS?
20:28 < jZed> try ps aux | grep mysql
20:28 < jZed> or whatever its equivalent is on your OS
20:30 < Jiggie> redhat
20:30 < Jiggie> es 4
20:31 < jZed> did mysqld show up with ps?
20:31 < Jiggie> nope
20:31 < Jiggie> only after i start it manually again
20:32 < jZed> once you restart it, does that fix the wG problem?
20:32 < Jiggie> nope
20:32 < Jiggie> i wish
20:32 < jZed> what's in /var/log/webgui.log?
20:36 < Jiggie> nothing much
20:36 < Jiggie> just the last person that logged in and added a file
20:36 < Jiggie> then it died
20:37 < jZed> hmm, and you restarted everything after you got mysqld started manually?
20:39 < Jiggie> let ,e check
20:42 < Jiggie> i'm going to re-check everything
20:42 < jZed> k, I'll be around
20:52 <@preaction-m> jiggie: are you running the wre?
20:54 < Jiggie> yeah
20:54 < Jiggie> it says mysql pID could not be found
20:54 < Jiggie> i start webgui and it says everything si fine
20:55 < Jiggie> but then i do a ps -ef |grep http, lots of stuff come on
20:55 < Jiggie> but if i do ps -ef |grep mysql or mysqld nothign happens
20:55 < jZed> mysqld errors don't show up in rc.webgui
20:55 < Jiggie> then i start it manually and i can find it but it says mysql PID could not be found
20:58 <@preaction-m> you have to use "it" less and be more specific
20:58 <@preaction-m> try "which mysql"
20:58 <@preaction-m> and you want ps au | grep "mysqld"
20:59 <@preaction-m> mysql is running as the user "mysql"
20:59 < Jiggie> ok will try that
20:59 < Jiggie> give me a sec
20:59 < Jiggie> her eis the first thing we got
20:59 < Jiggie> https://www.plainblack.com/etcetera/power-failure/3
21:01 <@preaction-m> so you're saying that it hasn't worked for 5 months?
21:04 < jZed> say, preaction, is there an ER or UML diagram of the webgui database anywhere to be found?
21:05 <@preaction-m> jZed: not that I'm aware of
21:05 < jZed> ok, I'll try to make one from the SQL
21:06 < Jiggie> it worked
21:06 < Jiggie> but dont remember how i fixed it
21:11 < Jiggie> ok i'm on the box remotelly
21:11 < Jiggie> so i should look into the webguil.log
21:11 < Jiggie> look for what
21:11 < jZed> with WRE there are other logs I think
21:12 < Jiggie> i try to connect to mysql and it give me thie
21:12 < Jiggie> error 2002
21:13 < Jiggie> ..ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/tmp/mysql.sock' (111)
21:13 < Jiggie> [webgui@JETS webgui]$
21:16 <@preaction-m> and what does "which mysql" say?
21:17 <@preaction-m> perlbot enter
21:17 < perlbot> Do not use the Enter key as punctuation. Think in complete thoughts, then type.
21:17 < Jiggie> what do i type
21:18 <@preaction-m> "which mysql"
21:18 < Jiggie> 4
21:18 <@preaction-m> without quotes...
21:18 < Jiggie> ok
21:18 < Jiggie> .../data/wre/prereqs/mysql/bin/mysql
21:19 < Jiggie> her eis what i get..../rc.webgui restart
21:19 < Jiggie> mod_proxy Stopped
21:19 < Jiggie> mod_perl Stopped
21:19 < Jiggie> Stopping MySQL
21:19 < Jiggie> MySQL PID file could not be found!                         [FAILED]
21:19 < Jiggie> MySQL Stopped
21:19 < Jiggie> MySQL Started
21:19 < Jiggie> mod_perl Started
21:19 < Jiggie> mod_proxy Started
21:19 <@preaction-m> and `ps aux | grep "mysqld"` shows /data/wre/prereqs/mysql/sbin/mysqld runnig
21:19 <@preaction-m> DO NOT PASTE LIKE THAT
21:19 < Jiggie> ok
21:19 <@preaction-m> perlbot paste
21:19 < perlbot> Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.
21:20 <@preaction-m> there's probably information in the mysql logs about failing to start
21:21 < Jiggie> nothing come up
21:21 < Jiggie> where do i go to get that info
21:21 <@preaction-m> what version of the WRE?
21:22 < Jiggie> well it was a hacked job by JT
21:22 < Jiggie> wre 6.2.11
21:22 <@preaction-m> that's your webgui version, not your wre version
21:22 <@preaction-m> but we'll just say it's old
21:23 <@preaction-m> the error log should be in /data/wre/prereqs/mysql/var/`uname -n`.err
21:26 < Jiggie> ok
21:26 < Jiggie> log copied
21:26 < Jiggie> to that site u told me
21:26 < Jiggie> some access rights
21:27 < Jiggie> preaction-m : are u able to see it
21:27 <@preaction-m> ONE: Do NOT press enter every three words
21:27 <@preaction-m> TWO: When using a paste site like that, you should really read the directions
21:27 <@preaction-m> THREE: I need the URL
21:28 < Jiggie> ok tot he first one, second her eis the link http://sial.org/pbot/21449
21:29 <@preaction-m> two means: when you clicked "Submit" you notified #perl about the paste, and they had no need to be notified
21:29 <@preaction-m> the error at the bottom is simple: /data/wre/prereqs/mysql is not owned by the mysql user
21:29 <@preaction-m> and/or the owner does not have rwx rights to the folder and all subfolders
21:32 < Jiggie> what right should it have, 755 what are the proper rights to the mysql user
21:33 <@preaction-m> if you do an ls -l /data/wre/prereqs, the mysql directory should be owned by "mysql"
21:34 < Jiggie> its owned by the webgui user..
21:36 < jZed> woot! my lib/WebGUI/Asset/Template/MasonTemplate works!
21:41 < Jiggie> so, then what...
21:41 <@preaction-m> you haven't listened. it should be owned by the mysql user
21:41 < jZed> the webgui mysql user or the apache user?
21:49 < Jiggie> ok gave mysql ownership of that. so, now i should restart the webgui proccess
21:52 <@preaction-m> you should start mysql
21:54 < Jiggie> still get the MySQL PID file could not be found! [FAILED].
21:55 <@preaction-m> did you "start" or "restart"
21:57 < Jiggie> i did ./rc.webgui startmysql
21:59 <@preaction-m> is it running though?
22:01 < Jiggie> nope
22:01 <@preaction-m> and the error logs say?
22:02 < Jiggie> ok i did it again and mysql has started and i do a ps -ef |grep mysql and it shows now what
22:03 < Jiggie> the log files still has the same error on it. but i changed the file permisions to mysql instead of webgui
22:04 < jZed> look in the yoursite_com.conf file and see what the real mysql user is
22:05 < Jiggie> btw mysql started then i di the ps -ef and it shouwed there, but now i do it and its no longer there....
22:05 <@preaction-m> jZed: why? that's the database user, not the system user
22:05 <@preaction-m> Jiggie, you did a chown recursively?
22:06 < Jiggie> no
22:06 < Jiggie> should i do that, chown -r mysql :mysql mysql/ like so?
22:06 < jZed> sorry, I misunderstood
22:07 <@preaction-m> without the space between mysql and :mysql
22:07 <@preaction-m> tias
22:07 < Jiggie> so i should do it without the space
22:07 <@preaction-m> you don't even need the group in there
22:08 < Jiggie> type how i need to do it,so i cna copy and paste,.
22:12 < Jiggie> yes/no
22:13 <@preaction-m> no, i'm not here to do it for you
22:13 <@preaction-m> man chown
22:16 < Jiggie> ok, not here to do it for me, i know. I asked if the way i typed it above and us aid without the space, so i'm asking to do it.
22:16 < Jiggie> ok did it, it seems to work now but its giving me another error.
22:19 < Jiggie> big long error, can i go tto that page and paste it so u can see it.
22:19 < jZed> you should man chown ... you want R not r
22:19 < Jiggie> its big R yes, i did that
22:19 <@preaction-m> Jiggie: go for it, just make sure that the "notify channel" or whatever is not set to #perl
22:20 <@preaction-m> or there are other pastebins on the internets
22:20 < Jiggie> yes
22:22 < Jiggie> http://sial.org/pbot/21451
22:22 < Jiggie> there
22:25 <@preaction-m> so does that file exist? is it writable by the apache user?
22:26 < jZed> preaction, ignore this if you don't have time ... is there any security hazard in making Maon available as a Template ... if only Admins can edit templates, no one else can use Mason to run random Perl, right?
22:26 <@preaction-m> if you make sure that only admins can edit templates, i don't see a major flaw
22:26 < Jiggie> it exist. let me check who own it. it is owned by the webgui user.
22:27 <@preaction-m> is apache running as that same user?
22:27 < Jiggie> how can i tell
22:28 <@preaction-m> ps aux | grep "apache"
22:29 < jZed> the user will be the first word in each httpd line e.g. nobody
22:29 <@preaction-m> otherwise look at your httpd.conf, the username should be in there somewhere
22:30 < Jiggie> nobody and root - nobody 4321 0.0 0.2 6280 2920 ? S 15:40 0:00 /data/wre/prereqs/apache/bin/httpd
22:31 <@preaction-m> so that log file needs to be owned by nobody, or at least writable by nobody
22:34 < Jiggie> ok, done did a chwn nobody on that file.
22:35 < Jiggie> it works, wohooooooo
22:35 < Jiggie> now, the most important question, how can that happen, we didnt touch anything on it.
22:35 <@preaction-m> somebody did
22:36 < Jiggie> how can i check that, cause i'm about to kill him/her
22:36 < jZed> look at the owner of the file before you changed it :-)
22:45 < Jiggie> nobody knew the password until today..
22:45 < Jiggie> the last time this happened the power went out and when it came back up crapgui did this error
22:45 <@preaction-m> sounds like your OS likes to reset file ownerships and permissions
22:46 < Jiggie> its an old redhat
22:46 < Jiggie> this mess was given to me when i started here
22:46 < Jiggie> i never used webgui b4
22:47 <@preaction-m> you're also a major version obsolete
22:47 < Jiggie> it has like 3 or 4 data folders and the config file is a convination.. I just finished performing and upgrade to 7.2 running rhes4 and we are missing a few files that seem tat did not get copied over..
22:47 <@preaction-m> i would consider it a 
22:48 <@preaction-m> Good Idea to just make a vanilla install of 7.2.* and do the slow manual way
22:48 <@preaction-m> did you do the upgrade steps? 6.2-6.8 6.8-7.1.3 7.1.3-7.2.*
22:49 < Jiggie> 7.2 is up and running, but some files are missing, so im looking for them now.. this box is the old version 6.2.11, that i'm trying to recover
22:49 < Jiggie> yeah
22:49 < Jiggie> the uplaod folder i had to copy over
22:49 <@preaction-m> before or after the upgrade?
22:49 < Jiggie> but because of the batched webgui_whoster+two different data folders not so easy
22:49 < Jiggie> missed a few things here and there
22:50 < Jiggie> b4 used to be like that. now the new version is running smotth, just the missing files
22:50 <@preaction-m> the upgrade changed how the uploads folder works, so it had to be done before
22:50 < Jiggie> so u are telling me that it might have been the upgrades that chaned the place of the files
22:51 <@preaction-m> the drive folder, perhaps, but not the asset url
22:53 < Jiggie> i did 6.2.11 to 6.65>6.810>7.1
22:53 < Jiggie> is that ok
22:53 <@preaction-m> if everything's working fine, yes
22:53 < Jiggie> files thats it....now i'm going manually and setting them up again
22:53 <@preaction-m> you might have to export the files from the old wG and import them into the new one
22:54 < Jiggie> export files? how does that work, never seen that
22:54 < Jiggie> i can dump the database thats it...
22:54 <@preaction-m> right-click: save file as...
22:55 <@preaction-m> the files aren't in the database, they're in the uploads/ folder
22:57 < Jiggie> so 1by1, i was wondering of a whole thing at once. that woul be nice
22:57 <@preaction-m> you could combine all the various uploads folders you have and then re-do the upgrades, but that would probably be more time-consuming
23:07 < Jiggie> yeah, i was just thinking of combining all of them and re-[point the files manually, is not that many
23:08 <@preaction-m> the structure of the uploads folder has changed, as I said. that would not be possible
23:13 < Jiggie> crap,,,,,, more work for me. i wanted to clean my hands of this...but thats guys for the help
23:16 < Jiggie> one more problem now.
23:16 < Jiggie> can ya take a look for a minute
23:17 <@preaction-m> perlbot ask
23:17 < perlbot> Ask forth your question to the all-knowing channel and we shall bestow upon you the answer of correctitude.
23:18 < Jiggie> http://sial.org/pbot/21453
23:19 < Jiggie> this is it /data/wre/prereqs/mysql/libexec/mysqld: Got error 127 from storage engine
23:19 <@preaction-m> google for MySQL Error 127
23:21 <@preaction-m> it might be prudent to run a myisamchk on your database
23:23 < Jiggie> i figured that, but wanted to make sure. as i had to do it the last time it crapped out
23:36 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui
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23:37 <+crythias> spam in the place where you work... now face south. think about direction. wonder why you haven't now.
23:38 <@preaction-m> spam in the back of my car, spam every place that you are
23:38 < jZed> i do not like green eggs or spam
23:38 <@preaction-m> loser
23:38 <@preaction-m> yellow eggs will kill you
23:38 <@preaction-m> green ones help against yellow lantern
23:39 < jZed> ok, I'll take the green eggs, but hold the spam, spam, spam, and spam
--- Day changed Wed Nov 29 2006
00:00 < Jiggie> i take the spam with egg. thats good
00:07 <@preaction-m> spaghetti, alfredo, stirfry or burritos... i can never decide...
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15:58 < ckotil> Are we still having the problem with spectre.pl needing to be rebooted every week or so?
15:59 < ckotil> I had a user upload a file last night and it never appeared on the site. 
15:59 < ckotil> The file was in the commited version tags. so I just added the file myself
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18:37 < ckotil> Is there anything built in to webgui to check for deadlinks?
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03:55 < Radix-wrk> Did the topic disappear - or is my irc client just not showing it?
03:56 < jZed> mine doesn't show it
03:56 -!- Radix-wrk changed the topic of #webgui to: Latest Versions: Webgui 7.2.3 (stable), WRE 0.7.2 -=- Ask your questions.. and be patient - it may take a while for us to answer! :)
03:56 < jZed> I'm using GAIM 
03:56 < jZed> there it is
03:56 < Radix-wrk> yah.. because I just set it :)
03:56 < Radix-wrk> must have been wiped for some reason
03:56 < jZed> I knew that :-)
03:59 < Radix-wrk> Hmm.. grab 7.2.3 while you can.. 7.3.0 beta is coming next week
04:00 < Radix-wrk> not that you won't be able to grab it next week.. but the upgrade scripts will all default to 7.3 then :)
04:00 < Radix-wrk> I'm still using 7.0.8 myself - should upgrade I guess
04:00 <+crythias>  heh. gwy2 is 7.0.6
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15:30 < ckotil> im anxious to see this wiki asset
16:16 < Radix__> yeah, should be fun
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17:27 < ckotil> really, i think we could of had a great wiki long ago if only a good template was put together
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22:05 < ckotil> is there a workflow to clear the cache?
22:07 < ckotil> clear the cache after a commit*
22:08 < ckotil> ;] and to only do it inside folder assets would be even cooler
22:08 < ckotil> i set it to clear the cache in the hourly workflow
22:21 < ckotil> i cant seem to recall where to change the time limit for cacheing...anyone know?
22:22 < ckotil> im thinking about lowering it to about 30 minutes. my users are complaining that commited changes arent appearing fast enough. im thinking its a caching issue either on their browsers end or webgui's
23:33 -!- royjohnson [n=royjohns@224.248.95.24.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui
23:34 -!- royjohnson is now known as snapcount
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23:34 -!- mode/#webgui [-o snapcount] by snapcount
23:35 < snapcount> perlbot sit
23:35 < snapcount> perlbot rollover
23:36 < snapcount> perlbot speak!
23:36  * snapcount scratches his head
23:36 <+perlDreamer> maybe he's asleep?
23:36 < jZed> no, scratch perlbot's head
23:36 < snapcount> perlbot slap snapcount
23:36  * perlbot slaps snapcount around a bit with a large trout
23:37 < snapcount> perlbot 8ball
23:37 < perlbot> Magic 8ball says: No
23:37 <+perlDreamer> I miss WRE
23:37 <+perlDreamer> he was a great bot
23:38 < snapcount> calc palmade
23:38 < snapcount> heheh
23:38 < snapcount> good times
23:38 <+perlDreamer> remember the one about Matt's sister?
23:39 < snapcount> no
23:39 < snapcount> I'm sure it was funny though
23:40 < ckotil> where do i change the timeout limit on the cache?
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23:43 < snapcount> there is no global setting
23:43 < ckotil> ah. 
23:43 < ckotil> even better
23:43 < snapcount> it's configured in the asset properties if the asset uses caching
23:43 < ckotil> thanks
23:43 < snapcount> np
23:43 < ckotil> k i recall now. i knew i saw it somehwhere
23:44 < snapcount> deja vu is common in wG
23:44 < snapcount> someone should write an irc wobject for webgui
23:44 < snapcount> and an irc bot wobject
23:45 < ckotil> heh
23:45 < snapcount> then we could have this channel on the pb website
23:45 < ckotil> that'd be cool
23:45 < snapcount> Colin, how long would it take you?
23:45 < ckotil> heh
23:45 <+perlDreamer> huh? me?
23:45 <+perlDreamer> do IRC programming?
23:46 < snapcount> no, of course not
23:46 < snapcount> someone else has done that already surely
23:46 <+perlDreamer> Don't call me surely
23:46 < snapcount> cpan
23:46 <+perlDreamer> would you store each line in a table in the db?
23:47 < snapcount> it's simple... all *you* have to do, cough cough, is wrap the cpan modules in a wobject and sprinkle some UI on top
23:47 < ckotil> so the folder asset will alphabetize contents for you. can the alphabetization be easily reversed? 
23:48 < ckotil> My group is finally starting to develop wobjects internally. Im sure progress will be very slow at first. but hey, its a start. i think first we are going to internalize some of our network monitoring and reprting tools
23:52 < snapcount> yes it's easy
23:52 < snapcount> imo anyways
23:53 < ckotil> will it be as simple as editing the template?
23:53 < ckotil> or will i have to go into the .pm itself
23:53 < snapcount> it's code
23:53 < ckotil> k
23:53 < ckotil> i can pry handle that. thanks.
23:53 < snapcount> getLineage method in AssetLineage does the sorting
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23:54 < snapcount> via the rules hash {orderByClause}
23:54 < snapcount> see the view method in WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Folder.pm
23:54 < ckotil> ah. even better. thanks
23:55 <+perlDreamer> or you could put it into a table and then use any of the javascript table sorting handlers
23:55 < snapcount> you would change that to assetData.title desc
23:55 < ckotil> ohhh. badass.
23:55 < ckotil> its set to asc now?
23:56 < snapcount> no order is passed so it defaults to asc
23:57 < snapcount> but that's b/c of mysql
23:57 < ckotil> ok
23:57 < ckotil> thanks. im heading home.
23:57 < snapcount> have pleasant travels
23:57 < snapcount> may gooey be with you
23:57 < ckotil> it got real cold today. im in the midwest
23:58 < ckotil> and also with you.
23:58 < ckotil> pz
23:58 < snapcount> I'm starting to realize that I'm a huge dork
23:58 < ckotil> we all are.
23:58 < ckotil> heh
23:58 <+perlDreamer> you're not alone, snapcount!
23:58 < snapcount> so we're like a dork herd
23:59 < snapcount> or clan
23:59 -!- snapcount changed the topic of #webgui to: Watch for migrant dork herds
23:59 < snapcount> that sounds funny... I lolled
--- Log closed Fri Dec 01 00:00:38 2006
