--- Log opened Mon May 01 00:00:05 2006
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15:49 <+MrHairgrease> so matt
15:49 <+MrHairgrease> what;s up?
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17:07 <+MrHairgrease> hey guys
17:07 <+MrHairgrease> do you celebrate labor day?
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17:14 < xdanger> yeah, by not doing any labor ;)
17:16 <+MrHairgrease> I'm not
17:16 <+MrHairgrease> frickin commies! =)
17:16 <@pbmdawg> is today labor day?
17:16 <+MrHairgrease> YEah supposedly
17:16 <+MrHairgrease> Joeri just told me
17:16 <@pbmdawg> labor day is in September
17:17 <+MrHairgrease> no man
17:17 <+MrHairgrease> it is today
17:17 <@pbmdawg> in USA it's in September
17:17 <+MrHairgrease> oh ok
17:17 <+MrHairgrease> must be the timezones
17:45 < Baylink> I suspect it's because the holiday means different things to different people.
17:45 <@pbmdawg> :)
17:46 <+MrHairgrease> It's no holliday in Holland
17:46 <+MrHairgrease> evrybody here just works
17:47 <+MrHairgrease> Anybody who wants to POD the new graphing stuff?
17:47 <+MrHairgrease> I pretty much have had it with doing that =)
17:47 < Baylink> Work? Aiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
17:48 * Baylink runs screaming into the darkness
17:48 <+MrHairgrease> typical...
17:48 <+MrHairgrease> =)
17:49 < Baylink> :-)
18:38 <+MrHairgrease> later guys
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21:32 <+crythias> am I reading something right?
21:32 <+crythias> pbmdawg
21:33 <@pbmdawg> crythias
21:33 <+crythias> heya
21:34 <@pbmdawg> what are you reading
21:34 <+crythias> $420/year to host with plainblack *and* I get the $500 support?
21:34 <@pbmdawg> yep
21:34 <@pbmdawg> heh
21:34 <+crythias> my brain is a little slow.
21:34 <+crythias> sometimes.
21:35 <+crythias> especially when I don't see things side by side.
21:35 <+crythias> well, um... ok, Would I need to upgrade my site to 6.8.latest and would I be able to port it to plainblack.com?
21:36 <@pbmdawg> depends on what version it is now
21:36 <+crythias> 678
21:36 <+crythias> I've been lazy
21:36 <@pbmdawg> yeah; roy will upgrade it for you
21:37 <+crythias> Can I host multiple domains on one account?
21:50 <+crythias> hee
21:50 <+crythias> "MC Escher" --"He's not a true emcee" What? is he a sucka emcee?
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22:07 * crythias skids by...
22:07 <+MrHairgrease> hey dude
22:07 <+crythias> greetings
22:07 <+MrHairgrease> how's life
22:07 <+crythias> not bad not bad.
22:08 <+MrHairgrease> very good
22:24 <+MrHairgrease> matt
22:24 <+MrHairgrease> [ 1475206 ] admin's create new user form displays self's profile
22:24 <+MrHairgrease> that bug does not reproduce
22:24 <+MrHairgrease> can you confirm?
22:32 <@pbmdawg> oh
22:32 <@pbmdawg> 6.99?
22:32 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
22:32 <@pbmdawg> yeah; it must be my browser auto-populating or something
22:32 <+MrHairgrease> latest svn update
22:32 <+MrHairgrease> oh ok
22:32 <+MrHairgrease> shall i close it?
22:33 <@pbmdawg> sure if you're sure you can't reproduce (add stuff to admin's profile first)
22:33 <@pbmdawg> then try
22:33 <+MrHairgrease> i did
22:35 <@pbmdawg> oh ok
22:35 <@pbmdawg> thanks
22:35 <+MrHairgrease> np
22:35 <+MrHairgrease> it's labor day after all =)
22:48 <+MrHairgrease> another question: should it go into the changelog?
22:48 <+MrHairgrease> it's not actually a bug after all..
22:49 <@pbmdawg> nope; just close
22:49 <+MrHairgrease> ok
23:07 <+crythias> hee
23:07 <+crythias> If at first you don't succeed, perhaps skydiving wasn't for you.
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14:04 < xdanger> interesting... tinymce with finnish language and ie, doesn't work, but works in ff and safari...
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16:32 < nbcccorp> what is a comment char in the webgui site .conf files?
16:36 < xdanger> #
16:36 < xdanger> isn't it "allways" #
16:37 < nbcccorp> well... sometimes it's ; or ' or /* or //
16:38 < nbcccorp> thanks though.
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17:22 < wouter_procolix> Hey Martin :)
17:23 < wouter_procolix> and hi everybody of course :)
17:23 <+crythias> hi
17:23 < wouter_procolix> Does someone know what $dt->monthCount should return?
17:23 < wouter_procolix> for example if start = January 31 and end = February 1 ?
17:23 <+MrHairgrease> wouter!
17:24 <+MrHairgrease> no
17:24 <+MrHairgrease> doesn't the pod say what it should do?
17:24 < wouter_procolix> POD: "Returns the number of months between the start and end dates (inclusive)."
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> ah
17:25 < wouter_procolix> So, "February 1" minus "January 31" is 0-2 days, depending on the time.
17:25 < wouter_procolix> But how many months is that?
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> in that case it should return the number of months between the start and end date
17:25 < wouter_procolix> 0, or 1, or 2?
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> 2
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> I guess
17:25 <+crythias> 2?
17:25 < wouter_procolix> Okay, then it's wrong, because it does:
17:26 <+MrHairgrease> _inclusive_
17:26 < wouter_procolix> my $duration = $end - $start;
17:26 < wouter_procolix> return $duration->delta_months;
17:26 <+MrHairgrease> so that's jan, feb
17:26 <+MrHairgrease> 2 months
17:26 <+MrHairgrease> Oh
17:26 < wouter_procolix> Yeah, I would say that too. But than you can't do "$end - $start", that makes no sense.
17:26 <+MrHairgrease> But how do you define a month
17:26 <+MrHairgrease> it can be 28 29 30 or 31 days
17:26 <+crythias> it'd be 0 or 1
17:27 <+crythias> likely 1
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> The code agrees with crythias
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> but the pod isn't
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> what is it used for?
17:27 <+crythias> it doesn't care about days.
17:28 <+crythias> Feb-Jan=1 month
17:28 <+MrHairgrease> I mean where is it in use
17:28 < wouter_procolix> Yes, but is the code correct? In that case I would have to use another function or implement my own one.
17:29 <+crythias> The code is correct, likely, because the *general* usage is months in the sense of calendar, not in groups of 30 days.
17:30 < Baylink> Based on that original definition, it's undefined. Date math has to include a year
17:31 <+crythias> well, yes, I assumed within the same year, but you're correct.
17:31 < Baylink> Any function which does not must give undefined results.
17:31 <+MrHairgrease> yeah the year is 2006
17:31 < Baylink> *even* if they're in the same year.
17:31 <+crythias> and it's probably still using epochs to do math.
17:31 < Baylink> Worst case, the function must assume "this year", and *say so*
17:31 < wouter_procolix> Well in that case "31 Aug" - "31 Jun" is three months, while "31 Mar" - "31 Jan" is 2 months ???
17:31 < wouter_procolix> Oh no, that's not true.
17:32 < wouter_procolix> That depends on how "delta_months" is implemented...
17:32 < wouter_procolix> argh I'm confused.
17:32 <+crythias> I agree. how are params passed? You say subtract first then get the answer?
17:32 < Baylink> "how many months is it between two dates" is also undefined.
17:32 <+crythias> where is it?
17:32 <+MrHairgrease> delta_months is a DateTime method right?
17:33 <+MrHairgrease> check the docs of DateTime
17:33 < wouter_procolix> Yes.
17:33 < wouter_procolix> Params are epoch.
17:33 <+MrHairgrease> there your answr lies
17:33 < wouter_procolix> sub monthCount {
17:33 < wouter_procolix> my $self = shift;
17:33 < wouter_procolix> my $start = DateTime->from_epoch( epoch => shift );
17:33 < wouter_procolix> my $end = DateTime->from_epoch( epoch => shift );
17:33 < wouter_procolix> my $duration = $end - $start;
17:33 < wouter_procolix> return $duration->delta_months;
17:33 < wouter_procolix> }
17:34 <+MrHairgrease> I guess DateTime overloads the - operator
17:34 <+MrHairgrease> so whats the result of that?
17:34 <+MrHairgrease> DateTime::Difference or something?
17:34 < wouter_procolix> epoch is just an integer, isn't it?
17:34 <+crythias> epoch is integer, yes
17:34 <+MrHairgrease> no your substracting two objects
17:35 < wouter_procolix> So the minus operator gives just the result in seconds.
17:35 <+MrHairgrease> DateTime->from_epoch( epoch => shift );
17:35 <+crythias> this is line 634 of WebGUI\Session\DateTime.pm, btw
17:35 <+MrHairgrease> is a constructor
17:35 < wouter_procolix> Ah yes, I see it now.
17:35 <+MrHairgrease> So the behaviour of your sub is determined by the DateTime magic
17:36 < wouter_procolix> okay.
17:36 <+MrHairgrease> in delta_months
17:36 < wouter_procolix> I'll try to find the documentation of that.
17:36 <+MrHairgrease> Time to do the dishes
17:36 <+MrHairgrease> I've managed to postpone that tedious task for about a week and a half
17:36 <+MrHairgrease> But now I must do it
17:37 < wouter_procolix> Yikes. Well, good luck. Have fun :)
17:37 * MrHairgrease is beaten by dirty pot's and dishes...
17:37 <+MrHairgrease> wouter
17:37 < wouter_procolix> And thanks to all for the reactions.
17:37 <+MrHairgrease> are you working tomorrow
17:37 <+MrHairgrease> @procolix
17:37 < wouter_procolix> Nope.
17:37 < wouter_procolix> I'm working today :)
17:38 <+MrHairgrease> Have you seen my email about the perl workshop?
17:38 <+crythias> my $dt = DateTime->new( year => 1066, month => 10, day => 25, hour => 7, minute => 15, second => 47, nanosecond => 500000000, time_zone => 'America/Chicago', );
17:38 <+crythias> sorry
17:38 < wouter_procolix> Yes I have seen the mail. Maybe I'll go to it. It would be interesting for me I guess
17:38 <+MrHairgrease> yeah sure
17:38 < wouter_procolix> And not to far away :)
17:39 <+MrHairgrease> I read we'll have to register before monday
17:39 <+MrHairgrease> or no free lunch
17:39 < wouter_procolix> LOL
17:39 <+MrHairgrease> five miutes walk...
17:39 <+MrHairgrease> the free lunch part was meant literally
17:39 <+MrHairgrease> they have to order a week in advance or so
17:39 <+MrHairgrease> ok
17:40 <+MrHairgrease> i'm going afk to wash up
17:40 <+MrHairgrease> later
17:40 < wouter_procolix> bye bye
17:41 <+crythias> delta_month doesn't appear in DateTime-0.30
17:41 < wouter_procolix> Hm, I'll check what version I have.
17:42 <+crythias> that is to say...
17:42 <+crythias> http://search.cpan.org/~drolsky/DateTime-0.30/lib/DateTime.pm
17:42 < wouter_procolix> Hm, strange, I couldn't find it in the WebGUI files either.
17:42 < wouter_procolix> Maybe in one of the DateTime::xxxx modules?
17:43 < wouter_procolix> Ah: DateTime::Duration
17:43 < wouter_procolix> sub delta_months { $_[0]->{months} }
17:44 <+crythias> from_epoch( epoch => $epoch, ... ) This class method can be used to construct a new DateTime object from an epoch time
17:50 <+crythias> from where did you get that?
17:51 < wouter_procolix> The "sub delta_months" came from DateTime::Duration
17:51 <+crythias> still..
17:52 <+crythias> I think the subtraction $end-$start is ...
17:52 < wouter_procolix> http://search.cpan.org/~drolsky/DateTime-0.30/lib/DateTime.pm#Datetime_Subtraction
17:52 <+crythias> yyyy-mm-dd hh:mm:ss.nnnnnnnnn-
17:52 <+crythias> yeah
17:53 <+crythias> http://search.cpan.org/~drolsky/DateTime-0.30/lib/DateTime/Duration.pm
17:54 < wouter_procolix> Yeah, I'm just reading that page, but I can't find exactly what it does.
17:54 <+crythias> I agree
17:54 < wouter_procolix> I think that from "Feb 28" to "March 28" is 1 month.
17:55 < wouter_procolix> And "March 30" to "April 30" is also 1 month.
17:55 < wouter_procolix> But "March 31" to "April 30" is ambiguous than...
17:55 < wouter_procolix> Is it 1 month? Or 4 weeks and 2 days?
17:57 < wouter_procolix> brb
18:00 <+crythias> checking
18:01 <+crythias> unfortunately I am still running an old version.
18:01 <+crythias> of WG. No DateTime.
18:02 <+crythias> wow.
18:02 <+crythias> DateTime isn't a trivial install
18:03 < wouter_procolix> No, I did a WebGUI install a few weeks ago and also had some problems with DateTime :(
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18:04 <+crythias> portinstall p5-DateTime :)
18:04 < wouter_procolix> portinstall ?
18:04 < Luke___> hi
18:04 <+crythias> completed. Yeah. portinstall is freebsd
18:04 < wouter_procolix> ah.
18:04 < wouter_procolix> hi @ luke
18:05 <+crythias> weird.
18:05 < Luke___> somebody worked with matrix wobject ?
18:05 < Luke___> i can´t delete fields...:-)
18:06 < wouter_procolix> @Luke: no, I have not used it yet.
18:06 <+crythias> wouter: http://rafb.net/paste/results/uyHwrO92.html
18:06 <+crythias> I think I did it right.
18:06 <+crythias> returns .. zero?
18:07 < wouter_procolix> Yes, returns 0.
18:08 <+crythias> then it makes a hash from the -
18:09 <+crythias> 30 may minus 31 march = 1
18:09 < Baylink> This is 7.0b1 stuff, guys?
18:10 < wouter_procolix> It's about DateTime and DateTime::Duration, and yeah they're in WebGUI since version 6.99 or so
18:10 <+crythias> 30 may minus 1 march -2
18:10 <+crythias> er
18:10 < Baylink> Got it.
18:10 <+crythias> 30 May minus 1 Mar = 2
18:11 < wouter_procolix> ???
18:11 <+crythias> try it out
18:11 < wouter_procolix> That's unexpected...
18:12 < wouter_procolix> Okay, so it's 2 months and 30 days.
18:12 < wouter_procolix> And it returns just one element of the array...
18:12 < wouter_procolix> In this case "2" months.
18:12 <+crythias> check again
18:13 <+crythias> 30 may minus 31 march is 1
18:13 < wouter_procolix> I did "May 31" minus "March 1" and that returned 2.
18:13 <+MrHairgrease> that's not weird
18:13 <+crythias> oh.
18:13 <+MrHairgrease> march april may
18:13 <+crythias> oh. wait, yes, it would
18:13 <+MrHairgrease> two months and some days diff
18:13 <+crythias> may 31 - march 1 is 2
18:14 * MrHairgrease has quit doing the dishes
18:14 <+crythias> may 30 - mar 31 is 1
18:14 < wouter_procolix> 30 may minus 31 march is ambiguous, but it probably depends on some variable (I forgot the name)
18:14 * MrHairgrease wants to practice the sirtaki
18:14 <+MrHairgrease> wouter
18:14 < wouter_procolix> wrap | limit | preserved
18:14 <+MrHairgrease> You can bet DateTime does it the correct way
18:14 < wouter_procolix> Yeah I trust that, I just want to understand what it does, so that I know if I can use that function.
18:15 <+MrHairgrease> ok
18:15 < wouter_procolix> end_of_month_mode
18:15 < wouter_procolix> Returns one of "wrap", "limit", or "preserve".
18:15 <+MrHairgrease> that seem a valid strategy
18:15 < wouter_procolix> If you specify "end_of_month" mode as "preserve", the same calculation is done as for "limit" except that if the original date is at the end of the month the new date will also be. For instance, adding one month to Feb 29, 2000 will result in Mar 31, 2000.
18:16 < wouter_procolix> Now that's weird, but I guess date math is just weird by definition :)
18:16 <+crythias> http://rafb.net/paste/results/YTzksB26.html
18:16 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
18:16 <+MrHairgrease> there's no bigger pain than date math
18:16 <+MrHairgrease> think of it
18:16 <+crythias> kidney stones.
18:16 <+MrHairgrease> months are not a unique length
18:17 <+MrHairgrease> and the length of a month can change depending on the year
18:17 <+MrHairgrease> those gregorians must have been on some serious drugs
18:17 < wouter_procolix> Yes, but I expected/hoped that $dt->monthCount would return the number of different months are in the given interval. But that turns out not to be the case.
18:17 <+MrHairgrease> ok
18:18 < wouter_procolix> Yeah, and then there's timezones and daylight saving time ..... ARGH!
18:18 <+MrHairgrease> but that you can figure out quite easily
18:18 <+MrHairgrease> there's always a constant number of months in a year
18:18 <+MrHairgrease> luckily
18:18 < wouter_procolix> Anyway, the Events Calendar is working almost perfectly fine now :)
18:18 <+MrHairgrease> That's cool
18:18 <+MrHairgrease> It was kind of a mess
18:19 < wouter_procolix> Yeah, you can say that.
18:19 <+MrHairgrease> to put it euphamytically
18:19 <+MrHairgrease> eufmistically
18:19 <+MrHairgrease> whatever
18:19 <+MrHairgrease> I can spell the friggen word in ducth
18:19 <+MrHairgrease> Luke
18:20 <+MrHairgrease> post your bug to the tracker on sourceforge
18:20 <+MrHairgrease> and I will have a look on it tomorrow
18:20 <+MrHairgrease> what version are you on?
18:21 < Baylink> euphemistically
18:22 <+MrHairgrease> eufemistisch
18:22 <+MrHairgrease> that's how you spell it in dutch
18:22 < wouter_procolix> http://www.vandale.nl/opzoeken/woordenboek/?zoekwoord=eufemistisch
18:22 <+crythias> no, cluster foxtrot is a euphemism. a mess, is mildly, yet inadequately descriptive.
18:23 <+MrHairgrease> I don't not know what a cluster foxtrot is
18:23 <+MrHairgrease> and I'm not entirely sure I want to know =)
18:24 <+crythias> foxtrot is merely a word to indicate the letter "F"
18:24 * MrHairgrease is at a loss
18:24 <+MrHairgrease> please explain
18:24 <+crythias> http://www.travel-images.com/alpha-zulu.html
18:24 <+MrHairgrease> yeah I know _that_
18:25 <+MrHairgrease> I meant the cluster F thing
18:25 <+crythias> I'm being polite.
18:25 <+MrHairgrease> no need for that
18:25 <+crythias> foobar
18:25 <+MrHairgrease> I'm from rural holland
18:25 <+MrHairgrease> =)
18:27 < wouter_procolix> He guys, I'm going to leave you now. See you later.
18:27 <+MrHairgrease> bye
18:27 < wouter_procolix> And Martin, I'll mail you about the Perl thing. I'll have to check if I have time for it.
18:27 < wouter_procolix> Are you goin?
18:27 <+MrHairgrease> yups
18:27 <+MrHairgrease> prolly
18:27 <+MrHairgrease> yung also goes i think
18:27 <+MrHairgrease> and maybe len
18:27 < wouter_procolix> Okay, great :)
18:27 <+MrHairgrease> I'll email them and then we'll see
18:27 <+MrHairgrease> Oh yeah
18:28 <+MrHairgrease> and we have to pry loose some money from our beloved employers =)
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18:28 < wouter_procolix> Okay, see you later!
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20:09 <+crythias> wow
20:09 <+perlDreamer> ?
20:09 <+crythias> I've been at the top of google for a few searches, but I got a referal link from another site
20:10 <+crythias> this regarding my pc anywhere with dynamic ip.
20:11 <+crythias> I've gotten referral links from google and other search engines, and one mention from expertexchange to which I made a reciprocal link.
20:12 <+crythias> And I have had some del.icio.us referals, but now I've received another link. :) yay.
20:27 < xdanger> interesting... tinymce with finnish language and ie, doesn't work, but works in ff and safari...
20:27 < xdanger> nice one
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16:28 <+MrHairgrease> Len!
16:29 <+MrHairgrease> Are you going to teh perl workshop?
16:32 < lenthamen> hey martin !
16:32 < lenthamen> weet het nog niet...
16:32 <+MrHairgrease> je schijnt voor maandag te moeten boeken
16:32 <+MrHairgrease> anders geen gratis lunch...
16:33 <+crythias> ooh. I heard free lunch
16:33 <+MrHairgrease> aint no susch thing
16:33 < lenthamen> ow... Dan ga ik niet. Eind deze maand ga ik een week met de motor naar de dolomieten en ik ben thuis ook nog druk aan het verhuizen...
16:33 <+MrHairgrease> such*
16:33 <+crythias> heh
16:33 <+MrHairgrease> jammer
16:33 < lenthamen> jij gaat wel ?
16:33 <+MrHairgrease> waarheen ga je verhuizen?
16:34 <+MrHairgrease> ja
16:34 <+MrHairgrease> yung ook
16:34 <+MrHairgrease> en wouter waarschijnlijk
16:34 <+MrHairgrease> je kan je ook na maandag nog inschrijven
16:34 < lenthamen> hehe, intern verhuizen... er komt gezinsuitbreiding aan dus mijn werkkamer moet naar zolder :(
16:34 <+MrHairgrease> oh joh
16:34 <+MrHairgrease> hoe lang nog?
16:35 < lenthamen> eind augustus uitgerekend...
16:35 <+MrHairgrease> check
16:35 < lenthamen> Dus ik kan ook niet mee naar las vegas _snik_
16:35 <+MrHairgrease> dat is wel jammer
16:35 < lenthamen> baal als een stekker...
16:35 <+MrHairgrease> maar de wuc is pas half september
16:35 < lenthamen> hehe
16:36 <+MrHairgrease> na twee weken kan je ega het toch wel weer aan? =)
16:36 <+MrHairgrease> dat krijg je ervan....
16:36 <+MrHairgrease> van kerstmis dat is
16:37 < lenthamen> Of van sinterklaas...
16:37 <+MrHairgrease> nu krijg ik allemaal beelden
16:37 <+MrHairgrease> dank je....
16:37 <+MrHairgrease> je had je baard opgeplakt?
16:38 < lenthamen> "Kijk eens wat sinterklaas voor jou uit spanje meegenomen heeft" :)
16:38 <+MrHairgrease> gast
16:38 <+MrHairgrease> toch niet een cadeautje?
16:39 < lenthamen> pfff is het bij jullie ook zo fucking heet ?
16:39 <+MrHairgrease> ja
16:39 <+MrHairgrease> en ik ben bezig met javascript
16:39 <+MrHairgrease> en pod
16:39 < lenthamen> ow
16:39 <+MrHairgrease> dus het zuigt een beetje vandaag
16:39 <+MrHairgrease> js heeft dus geen block scoping heh
16:40 <+MrHairgrease> ontzettend arelekst
16:40 < lenthamen> heh dan heb je php nog niet gezien :D
16:40 <+MrHairgrease> dus nu werk ik met variabelen als: s_OdVKRthyqrb8GK_aDzqYzQ.setMaximum(100);
16:40 < lenthamen> oei
16:40 <+MrHairgrease> psies
16:41 < lenthamen> was je nog naar a'dam.pm geweest ?
16:41 <+MrHairgrease> http://rafb.net/paste/results/60VFNn28.html
16:41 <+MrHairgrease> check dat
16:42 <+MrHairgrease> adam.pm? nee
16:42 <+MrHairgrease> geen tijd
16:42 <+MrHairgrease> maar ik ga het dus goed maken op de perl workshop
16:44 < lenthamen> Ik ga zo naar de surf winkel.
16:44 <+MrHairgrease> surf winkel?
16:44 <+MrHairgrease> borden enzo?
16:45 < lenthamen> yep
16:45 < lenthamen> ga een wetsuit kopen.
16:46 <+MrHairgrease> waarvoor
16:46 <+MrHairgrease> ben jij zo'n surferdude?
16:47 < lenthamen> ik doe sinds kort 's avonds mee met de surfclub hier in almere....
16:47 <+MrHairgrease> is het nu wel lekkah weer voor
16:47 <+MrHairgrease> mits het waait natuurlijk
16:48 < lenthamen> precies.. heeft koen al een huis op de kop getikt ?
16:49 <+MrHairgrease> hij is nog zoekende heb ik begrepen
16:49 <+MrHairgrease> fucking dordrecht...
16:49 < lenthamen> Is webgui 7 echt 100x sneller ?
16:50 <+MrHairgrease> nou
16:50 <+MrHairgrease> 100x is misschien een beetje overdreven
16:50 <+MrHairgrease> =)
16:50 <+MrHairgrease> maar het is wel sneller ja
16:50 < lenthamen> ok :)
16:57 < xdanger> is it possible to force a user to edit his/her profile on login ?
16:58 <+crythias> I think it's possible if you have fields that are obligatory.
16:58 <+MrHairgrease> only on anon reg
16:58 <+crythias> but *every* logon?
16:58 <+MrHairgrease> no
16:58 <+MrHairgrease> only anonymous reg
16:58 < xdanger> I'm supposed to do a batch of user generation based on a the information in a CS, and there are some information missing
16:59 < xdanger> Just would like to do that on the "next" login for everyone
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17:00 <+MrHairgrease> that is not a wg feature
17:00 <+MrHairgrease> if you want to do that you have to rig WebGUI::Auth
17:00 <+MrHairgrease> or WG::Auth::WebGUI
17:01 < xdanger> I don't want that to happen to my other webgui sites =P
17:01 < xdanger> on the same installation
17:01 <+MrHairgrease> I can imagine
17:01 < xdanger> but yeah, that could work...
17:01 <+MrHairgrease> Maybe you can build a macro
17:02 < xdanger> maybe someone would need this feature ? "forceUserToUpdateProfile" ;)
17:02 <+MrHairgrease> if user profiles are not complete it should redirect the user to op=editProfile
17:02 <+MrHairgrease> you can put that macro in your style
17:02 <+MrHairgrease> that should work.
17:03 < xdanger> hmm... not bad...
17:03 < xdanger> or a link with blinking red texti size 32px "Update your profile"
17:03 <+MrHairgrease> sure
17:03 < lenthamen> maybe an SQL REport that checks if profile data is present, and if not it prints a to ?op=editProfile ?
17:03 <+MrHairgrease> but that won't force em
17:04 <+MrHairgrease> I would go for the macro
17:04 < xdanger> is there a macro to probe the profile data ?
17:04 <+MrHairgrease> no
17:04 <+MrHairgrease> not that i know of anyway
17:04 < xdanger> damn... I think i'll make one then ;)
17:04 <+MrHairgrease> but you can use the api
17:04 < lenthamen> ^User ?
17:05 < lenthamen> ^User(someField); will give you the content of the profiel field "someField".
17:05 < xdanger> a right... thanks
17:06 < xdanger> if I add a hidden profile field kindof "lastUpdated" and check for that, then I wouldn't really need to create anything "new"
17:07 <+MrHairgrease> maybe
17:07 <+MrHairgrease> i dunno
17:07 <+MrHairgrease> if that would work that is
17:08 < lenthamen> Martin: I thought someone @procolix was working on a "upload image" function directly in the html editor ?
17:08 < lenthamen> Martin: or am I wrong ?
17:08 <+MrHairgrease> wouter
17:09 <+MrHairgrease> I think he already put it in
17:09 < lenthamen> ok..
17:09 < Trebbor123> Oh, that's cool. :)
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17:11 < lenthamen> I'm going offline. ttyl.
17:11 <+MrHairgrease> yeah it is =)
17:11 <+MrHairgrease> ok later
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17:16 < Trebbor123> MrHairgrease, where are you from?
17:16 <+MrHairgrease> Delft
17:17 < Trebbor123> Ah, that's what I thought. Nederlands dus.
17:17 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
17:17 <+MrHairgrease> and you
17:17 < Trebbor123> Groningen
17:17 <+MrHairgrease> essentkabel.com
17:17 <+MrHairgrease> ah
17:17 <+MrHairgrease> My brother lives there
17:17 < Trebbor123> Haha, funny
17:17 < Trebbor123> My brother also. :P
17:18 <+MrHairgrease> well well
17:18 <+MrHairgrease> what a coincidence
17:19 <+MrHairgrease> =)
17:19 < Trebbor123> But what I was wondering. Do you use WebGUI's Pagetree plugin for TinyMCE often?
17:20 <+MrHairgrease> nope
17:20 <+MrHairgrease> I don't use timymce that much
17:20 < Trebbor123> Oh, okay. :) Nevermind then.
17:20 <+MrHairgrease> I just code and code and code =)
17:20 <+MrHairgrease> is it broken?
17:20 < Trebbor123> No, I didn't also before updating to 6.8
17:21 <+MrHairgrease> sorry?
17:21 <+MrHairgrease> pls explain
17:21 < Trebbor123> No, it's not. I only wondered why it only creates links to pages (or asseturl's actually)
17:22 <+MrHairgrease> dunno
17:23 < Trebbor123> The reason I bring this up is because I get a lot of questions from co-workers about how to add a link to a file or image that's already inserted in WebGUI.
17:23 <+MrHairgrease> ah
17:23 <+MrHairgrease> and the images do not show up in the asset tree?
17:23 < Trebbor123> So I was thinking (and adjusted it for myself) why not use the Pagetree function of WebGUI, rename it to External link, and let the pagetree be able to link to the files and images
17:24 < Trebbor123> They do, but if you insert them it will pass the asset URL not the real File or Image URL.
17:24 < Trebbor123> In my opinion you don't want that. :)
17:24 <+MrHairgrease> Well you do
17:24 < Trebbor123> Why?
17:24 <+MrHairgrease> but embedded in a FileUrl macro
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> if you insert the /uploads/bla/bla/etc url directly
17:25 < Trebbor123> That's also possible. This way the image or file can be changed without adjusting the url you mean.
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> you are not safe for versioning
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> if you change an image a new entry in the uploads folder is made
17:25 < Trebbor123> That's true.
17:26 <+MrHairgrease> therefore: use ^FileUrl;
17:26 < Trebbor123> That's a good tip.
17:26 <+MrHairgrease> It will save you lots of headache
17:26 <+MrHairgrease> which is a Good Thing of course
17:27 < Trebbor123> But I was wondering if I should post this as a contribution. Because I couldn't think of any reason why it should return assetURL's of files and images.
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> contribution where?
17:28 < Trebbor123> So that's why I asked if you use it often, so I could find out if more people need this.
17:28 < Trebbor123> To Plainblack?
17:28 <+MrHairgrease> sure why not
17:28 <+MrHairgrease> robbert: marc is leaving
17:29 <+MrHairgrease> did you check out the new intl tool?
17:29 < Trebbor123> Yep, I'm working on it right now. :)
17:29 <+MrHairgrease> ah very cool
17:29 < Trebbor123> No, it's hot.
17:29 <+MrHairgrease> yes it is
17:29 <+MrHairgrease> also in Groningen?
17:29 < Trebbor123> Good thing we have aircoditioning.
17:29 <+MrHairgrease> you lucky bastard
17:29 < Trebbor123> Even in Groningen. :)
17:29 <+MrHairgrease> we only have windows
17:30 <+MrHairgrease> heh
17:30 < xdanger> I think I'm done for today... now I'm going to outside in to the sunshine and have some beer ;)
17:30 <+MrHairgrease> now that's a good idea
17:30 < xdanger> It's something like 21 degs. of celsius
17:30 * MrHairgrease grabs a beer from the fridge
17:30 <+MrHairgrease> here it's about 25 or so
17:30 < xdanger> 21.1°C
17:31 <+MrHairgrease> and very moist
17:31 < xdanger> not a single cloud in the sky =)
17:31 < Trebbor123> Well, I'm also going then. Enjoy the weather.
17:31 < xdanger> I'm going to a bar's terrace... Not quite sure how that's correctly said in english =)
17:34 < Trebbor123> Bye
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17:54 <+MrHairgrease> later
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21:23 < fdillon> howdy
21:38 <+crythias> howdy
21:43 <+crythias> new release of webgui without announcemnent?
21:43 < fdillon> ?
21:44 < fdillon> not that I'm aware
21:44 < fdillon> but I'm not aware of much when it comes to WG releases
21:59 <+crythias> ok. it just wasn't on "news"
22:06 -!- crythias changed the topic of #WebGUI to: WebGUI 6.8.9 Released (Security Release) 5/5/2006 Get it: http://tinyurl.com/zbttj Read More: http://tinyurl.com/g8kyt
22:33 <+crythias> ack
22:34 <+crythias> I'm so far behind my upgrade path.
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23:08 <+crythias> arg!
23:11 <+crythias> I'm not able to upgrade.
23:12 <+crythias> stupid stupid grr
23:12 <+crythias> I"m stuck on 6.7.3
23:12 <+crythias> stupid apacherequest probs
23:19 <+crythias> wowserz
23:22 <+crythias> you know it's really sick when the answer to your google question is your own post.
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01:31 < siriousje> sadly, we lost the offer (wg frontend + java backend), eventhough it was at least 1/10th of the costs
01:32 < siriousje> s/offer/prospect/
01:33 < siriousje> sometimes I just get mad when clients put off 'perl based' solutions as amateuristic
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13:20 < xdanger> siriousje: I'we had the same problem...
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19:55 <+crythias> zelda twilight princess playing on wii.. live
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12:52 -!- Irssi: #webgui: Total of 3 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 3 normal]
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--- Day changed Thu May 11 2006
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01:15 < luke___> hi *
01:15 < luke___> I´m not longer to lame to read BitchX.doc :-)
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14:53 < xdanger> http://www.google.com/trends?q=webgui&ctab=0&date=all&geo=all
14:54 -!- Irssi: #webgui: Total of 6 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 1 voices, 5 normal]
14:55 <+MrHairgrease> heh
14:55 < xdanger> played around with 6.99 last night and have say it has potential ;)
14:55 <+MrHairgrease> no americams looking for webgui...
14:55 <+MrHairgrease> it has
14:55 <+MrHairgrease> it has eye candy =)
14:55 < xdanger> this is alarming: http://www.google.com/trends?q=goatse%2C+tubgirl&ctab=0&date=all&geo=all
14:56 < xdanger> jeah, but I still don't like plainblacks design of the default layouts
14:56 < xdanger> and thats what people look first...
14:56 < xdanger> so we'll probably do our own default look
14:57 <+MrHairgrease> i agree that the templates are still not nice
14:57 <+MrHairgrease> at least in my eyes
14:57 <+MrHairgrease> of course
14:57 <+MrHairgrease> finnish people are sick
14:58 <+MrHairgrease> or ass holes =)
14:58 < xdanger> our design guy says something like it's gotten form a puke on the floor to a piss on the table... this doens't translate very well =)
14:58 <+MrHairgrease> depends how you interpret the google results =)
14:58 < xdanger> in reference to 6.8<->6.99
14:58 <+MrHairgrease> you mean the wg7 styles?
14:59 < xdanger> yeah, he hates the 6.x style, but doesn't like the 7 styles either
14:59 < xdanger> said that they are improments, but that you couldnät to much worse that the 6.x styles =)
15:00 <+MrHairgrease> They are to busy
15:00 <+MrHairgrease> crowed
15:00 <+MrHairgrease> crowded*
15:00 <+MrHairgrease> whatever
15:00 <+MrHairgrease> not serene
15:00 <+MrHairgrease> not profi
15:01 < xdanger> yeah, if you look at our design: http://tnnet.fi/ this is as crowded as it gets... normally http://rook.fi/
15:02 < xdanger> that his own pages =)
15:02 < xdanger> we really should do our own pages =D but we don't have the time
15:02 <+MrHairgrease> I'll go for the page with the chick on it =)
15:02 <+MrHairgrease> tnnet.fi
15:03 <+MrHairgrease> Apart from the feminine touch it is also a lot brighter
15:03 <+MrHairgrease> which is good
15:04 < xdanger> btw. runs on webgui ;)
15:04 <+MrHairgrease> cool
15:05 < xdanger> here are some of my favorites: http://www.hmc.fi/ http://www.musicmonster.fi/ http://x-prophets.com/ http://www.pmmp.fi/
15:05 <+MrHairgrease> no time to look at them now
15:05 <+MrHairgrease> must....
15:05 <+MrHairgrease> do...
15:05 <+MrHairgrease> work...
15:06 < xdanger> tnnet is our main partner, it's a local isp/hosting company... I'm going there to talk about moving their hosting to our comppany =)
15:13 < crythia2> that's a chick? heh...
15:16 <+MrHairgrease> Yeah we actually have those in Europe
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18:32 < lenthamen> hey martin
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18:38 <+MrHairgrease> len!
18:54 < lenthamen> Martin, the image upload functionality that Wouter wrote, is that also available for WebGUI 6.8 ?
18:55 <+MrHairgrease> no
18:55 <+MrHairgrease> Wouter has one for 6.7.7 though
18:56 <+MrHairgrease> if you want he can mail it to you
18:56 < lenthamen> hehe, that's exactly the version I'm running now :)
18:56 < lenthamen> Yes, please, please please :)
18:57 <+MrHairgrease> wouter will mail it to you
18:57 <+MrHairgrease> not right now
18:57 <+MrHairgrease> but somewhere in the near future
18:57 <+MrHairgrease> or you can spam him =)
18:57 < lenthamen> ok, I'll mail him a reminder :)
18:58 <+MrHairgrease> good so =)
19:01 <+MrHairgrease> later
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19:02 < lenthamen> mzl
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22:15 < luke___> hi everybody
22:17 <+crythias> hello
22:19 < luke___> do you have experience with svn ? :)
22:19 <+crythias> slightly
22:19 <+crythias> that is, I've been able to successfully use other people's implementations.
22:20 < luke___> and commandline svn ? :)
22:20 < luke___> i want to commit a change but i´m too lame to RTFM
22:20 <+crythias> well, not so much. I've used tortoise and rapid_svn
22:20 < luke___> maybe i should use this too :-)
22:20 <+crythias> what os?
22:20 < luke___> frontend: win - backend: linux
22:21 <+crythias> yeah. tortoise will help
22:21 < luke___> downloading...
22:21 <+crythias> http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/
22:21 < luke___> thx :)
22:21 <+crythias> might require reboot :(
22:21 < luke___> wtf ?
22:21 < luke___> win even
22:24 < luke___> ok I´m rebooting...
22:26 < luke___> ok letz check out
22:28 < luke___> hm i dont have any context menu like tortoiseSVN
22:30 <+crythias> you won't on a blank folder
22:30 <+crythias> no..
22:30 <+crythias> that's not right.
22:30 < luke___> i created a folder
22:30 <+crythias> you should see right-click svn
22:30 < luke___> maybe my shit winxp64
22:31 <+crythias> well, yeah, maybe?
22:31 < luke___> right-click and I see no SVN
22:31 < luke___> http://tortoisesvn.sourceforge.net/node/79
22:31 < luke___> I hope this is outdated
22:32 < luke___> ok it works
22:44 < luke___> thx, nice tool
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08:15 < cheecheeo> /who
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17:31 <+crythias> ... and then she said, "I can't believe you've asked me to do that."
17:32 <+crythias> oh. :) Hi
17:32 <+crythias> oh. this isn't #gooeyweb
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18:05 < luke___> :)
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20:21 < cheecheeo> what does the ^Extras macro expand to? and where can I upload and reference it in my style?
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06:15 < ph0bia> !seen snapcount
06:16 < ph0bia> seen snapcount
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07:19 < cheecheeo> how can I upload and reference a new favicon in my style?
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07:26 <+perlDreamer> yo cheecheeo
07:26 < cheecheeo> perlDreamer: hello
07:26 <+perlDreamer> how hackest thou tonight?
07:27 <+perlDreamer> did you get your uploads directory permissions fixed?
07:28 < cheecheeo> perlDreamer: I'm doing okay, I talked bonyari about it and he played around with it, we haven't really had a problem with it, what I ended up doing was just adding the users through the admin console and removing anon user registration
07:28 < cheecheeo> perlDreamer: you wouldn't happen to know much about favicon references and such would you?
07:29 <+perlDreamer> a little
07:30 <+perlDreamer> do mean the icon format or how to get webGUI to display one for you?
07:30 < cheecheeo> perlDreamer: how to get one on to webgui and how to reference it in my template
07:31 <+perlDreamer> let's check the setup on a demo site
07:31 <+perlDreamer> head on over to demo.plainblack.com and set yourself up a demo
07:31 < cheecheeo> k
07:33 < cheecheeo> setup
07:33 <+perlDreamer> double checking something on sunset's site
07:34 < cheecheeo> k
07:34 <+perlDreamer> that's what I thought
07:34 <+perlDreamer> on 6.2.11 there's a favicon/site icon setting in the config settings
07:35 <+perlDreamer> in 6.8 it looks like it's been removed
07:35 <+perlDreamer> here's the syntax for adding it to a page
07:35 <+perlDreamer>
07:35 <+perlDreamer>
07:35 <+perlDreamer> you'll want to add that to the style template
07:36 <+perlDreamer> I think you may need both to hit both mozilla and IE, but I'm not sure
07:36 < cheecheeo> so make a new directory in the root node and upload the favicon there?
07:36 <+perlDreamer> sure
07:36 < cheecheeo> and then that reference in the style?
07:36 <+perlDreamer> or just add it to the import node
07:37 <+perlDreamer> crythias: you awake?
07:37 < cheecheeo> the extras directory?
07:37 <+perlDreamer> you _could_ use the extras directory, but that would require shell access
07:38 <+perlDreamer> I would just upload an Image Asset to the import node, and give it a nice url, like /favicon.png
07:38 < cheecheeo> so, maybe this will help, what does the ^Extras macro expand to with respect to the directory/import nod hierarchy?
07:39 <+perlDreamer> they're not related at all
07:39 < cheecheeo> ah
07:41 <+perlDreamer> does that help?
07:42 < cheecheeo> perlDreamer: yeah, I'm trying it on the demo site real quick
07:42 <+perlDreamer> I don't remember the format of the ico file off the top of my head, but I think you can google for it pretty quickly
07:44 < cheecheeo> so when I run wget sunsetpres.org/extras/favicon.png I get the default webgui icon, not sunset's
07:44 <+perlDreamer> yep
07:45 <+perlDreamer> that's why in certain interfaces you get the wG icon instead of Sunset's.
07:45 <+perlDreamer> like the admin interfaces
07:45 <+perlDreamer> try grabbing the ico file
07:46 < cheecheeo> yeah, still webgui's
07:48 < cheecheeo> hmm, in the URL field, do I get to choose my own URL for easy referencing in styles, etc?
07:50 <+perlDreamer> yes
07:50 <+perlDreamer> sunset.ico is our favicon file
07:51 < cheecheeo> ah, I got it now
07:51 < cheecheeo> I'm also loving this mozex
07:53 < cheecheeo> it was a little bit interesting to get installed and configured bit I love it, except that it only seems to edit the first text field on the page, not necessarily the one the cursor is blinking in
07:53 <+perlDreamer> weird
07:53 <+perlDreamer> I haven't had any problems with it
07:54 <+perlDreamer> do you activate it via the hotkey or right click menu?
07:55 < cheecheeo> well, I'm assuming it's some gentoo sillyness because it wouldn't let me install it the xpi/firefox way without root acess
07:56 < cheecheeo> so I installed it as root and then it worked under my regular user
07:57 <+perlDreamer> yeah, that's weird
07:57 < cheecheeo> okay, thanks for the tips, I need to work on this OS now
07:58 <+perlDreamer> catch you later
07:58 < cheecheeo> you too
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14:15 <@pbmdawg> lucas
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12:51 < sanyock> Hi Ppl!
12:51 < sanyock> Please suggest is there any way to avoid apache restart, may be an other method may be used
12:52 < sanyock> If it is due to pm modules loaded into memory precompiled/optimized, may be it is possible to turn such optimization off with lower performance
12:55 < xdanger> something like Apache::Reload ?
12:56 < sanyock> I am just going to use general $5/month hosting to which I have SSH access to setup webgui
12:56 < sanyock> I did previously with version 6.6.5
12:56 < sanyock> Now I read in forums an apache restart may be needed, not sure why
12:56 < xdanger> aaa... Does this hosting offer mod_perl ?
12:57 < sanyock> Yes, mod_perl, MySQL 4.1
12:57 < sanyock> any missing modules will be installed
12:57 < sanyock> WG 6.6.5 worked fine
12:57 < sanyock> Going to use latest gamma
12:57 < xdanger> which version of mod_perl ?
12:58 < sanyock> just a moment
12:59 < sanyock> Apache version 1.3.34 (Unix)
12:59 < sanyock> PERL version 5.8.7
12:59 < sanyock> I am not sure if above is mod_perl, but hosting stuff let me know that mod_perl is available
12:59 < xdanger> I think that they support Apache::Registry, not the full mod_perl integration
12:59 < xdanger> yeah, 6.8 requires mod_perl2 and apache2
12:59 < sanyock> Server name rachel
12:59 < sanyock> WWW directory /home/aulix/public_html
12:59 < sanyock> Root directory /home/aulix
12:59 < sanyock> Path to PERL /usr/bin/perl
12:59 < sanyock> Perl modules Click to view
12:59 < sanyock> Path to sendmail /usr/sbin/sendmail
12:59 < sanyock> Apache version 1.3.34 (Unix)
13:00 < sanyock> MySQL version 4.1.18-standard
13:00 < sanyock> PostgreSQL version
13:00 < sanyock> PHP version 4.3.11
13:00 < sanyock> PHP info Click to view
13:00 < sanyock> PERL version 5.8.7
13:00 < sanyock> Kernel version 2.6.13.1.dn3.64
13:00 < sanyock> Machine Type i686
13:00 < sanyock> cPanel version 10.8.2-RELEASE-83
13:00 < sanyock> cPanel Pro Version 1.0 (RC36)
13:00 < sanyock> uhm...
13:01 < sanyock> if I find a host with mod_perl2 and apache2, is apache restart still be required?
13:01 < sanyock> If I remember correct, when conf file was changed I needed restart
13:02 * sanyock very currious about v7 release date
13:03 < sanyock> just looked into bug tracker, are the bugs only stoppers or more new features will be added before v7 release?
13:05 < xdanger> there are new features in 6.99 (kind of 7-beta version)
13:11 < sanyock> When started to use webgui for our company site, found that header length was limited to 255 characters, is such limitation is still actual?
13:12 < sanyock> following change helped me to overcome the limitation, may be this can be useful for new version:
13:12 < sanyock> Form.pm
13:12 < sanyock> _____________________________
13:12 < sanyock> my $maxLength = $params->{maxlength} || 1255;
13:23 < sanyock> may be $params->{maxlength} can be updated somewhere
13:23 < sanyock> it would be nice to have it in Settings panel
13:56 < xdanger> I don't see that line in 6.8 or 6.99
13:57 < sanyock> it was in 6.6.3 and 6.6.5
13:58 < sanyock> =head3 size
13:58 < sanyock>
13:58 < sanyock> The number of characters wide this form element should be. There should be no reason for anyone to specify this.
13:58 < sanyock>
13:58 < sanyock> =head3 defaultValue
13:58 < sanyock>
13:58 < sanyock> This will be used if no value is specified.
13:58 < sanyock>
13:58 < sanyock> =cut
13:58 < sanyock>
13:58 < sanyock> sub text {
13:58 < sanyock> my $params = shift;
13:58 < sanyock> my $value = _fixSpecialCharacters($params->{value}||$params->{defaultValue});
13:58 < sanyock> $value = _fixQuotes($value);
13:58 < sanyock> $value = _fixMacros($value);
13:58 < sanyock> my $maxLength = $params->{maxlength} || 255;
13:58 < sanyock> my $size = $params->{size} || $session{setting}{textBoxSize} || 30;
13:58 < sanyock> return '{extras}.' />';
13:58 < sanyock> }
13:58 < sanyock>
13:59 < sanyock> #-------------------------------------------------------------------
13:59 < sanyock> I changed 255 to 1255
13:59 < sanyock> now able to use wide Titles
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17:27 < luke___> hi martin
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17:27 <+MrHairgrease> heyho
17:28 < luke___> hi pbmdawg
17:28 <@pbmdawg> hi
17:28 < luke___> I´m trying to get the commerce running, but it´s always kills my apache...:(
17:29 < luke___> what could it be ?
17:29 <+MrHairgrease> dunno
17:29 <+MrHairgrease> when i made it it didn't kill anything
17:29 <@pbmdawg> what shipping/payment plugins do you have enabled
17:29 <+MrHairgrease> but there were changes the last few weeks
17:29 <@pbmdawg> and what commerce settings have you enabled
17:30 <@pbmdawg> all the changes were done by me
17:30 <@pbmdawg> I had to add in a few hooks
17:30 < luke___> ITransact
17:30 < luke___> I got an testaccount from jt
17:30 < luke___> I´m enabled me in firewall
17:30 <+MrHairgrease> on 6.8.x?
17:30 < luke___> yes
17:30 <@pbmdawg> oh
17:30 < luke___> but i´m not using ssl
17:30 <+MrHairgrease> the changes were in 6.99
17:31 <+MrHairgrease> well the plugin talks to itransact thru ssl
17:31 <+MrHairgrease> so it doen't matter if you use it on your site or not
17:31 <+MrHairgrease> it uses lwp::useragent
17:31 < luke___> ok
17:31 <+MrHairgrease> iirc
17:31 < luke___> lwp must compiled with ssl support ?
17:31 <+MrHairgrease> In what way does it kill apache
17:31 <+MrHairgrease> dies?
17:31 < luke___> the apache thread grows and grows
17:31 <+MrHairgrease> eat mem?
17:31 <+MrHairgrease> or cpu?
17:31 < luke___> yes
17:32 <+MrHairgrease> weird
17:32 <+MrHairgrease> never saw that behaviour
17:32 < luke___> I´m thing both, whats the best way to check it ?
17:32 <+MrHairgrease> top?
17:32 < luke___> s/ing/ink/;
17:32 < luke___> mom
17:33 <+MrHairgrease> without the plugin enabled...
17:33 <+MrHairgrease> does it grow?
17:33 < luke___> just grows after checkout
17:34 < luke___> and i couldn´t checkout without plugin
17:34 <+MrHairgrease> heh
17:34 <+MrHairgrease> there are not many that can =)
17:34 < luke___> hm
17:34 <+MrHairgrease> I can look into tonight for a bit.
17:34 <+MrHairgrease> But I don't think I'll find something
17:35 <+MrHairgrease> It must be something leaking sopewhere
17:35 <+MrHairgrease> somewhere*
17:35 <+MrHairgrease> Matt
17:35 < luke___> yes I will debug this too a little bit
17:35 <+MrHairgrease> does pb also has this problem
17:35 <@pbmdawg> don't know
17:35 <+MrHairgrease> It could be a cyclic ref or something
17:35 < luke___> uptime after send: 16:35:06 up 20 days, 7:47, 3 users, load average: 0.31, 0.07, 0.02
17:36 < luke___> 2512 daemon 19 0 845m 762m 13m R 36.7 76.6 0:07.66 httpd
17:36 < luke___> 2512 daemon 25 0 1376m 800m 13m D 60.1 80.3 0:11.84 httpd
17:37 <+MrHairgrease> now I;m not an expert
17:37 <+MrHairgrease> but these values seem pretty large
17:37 < luke___> 16:37:02 up 20 days, 7:49, 3 users, load average: 3.01, 1.07, 0.38
17:37 <+MrHairgrease> how do you restart apache?
17:38 <+MrHairgrease> httpd -k stop; httpd -k start?
17:38 <+MrHairgrease> or httpd -k restart
17:38 <+MrHairgrease> ?
17:38 < luke___> start & stop
17:38 <+MrHairgrease> that's teh way you should do it
17:38 <+MrHairgrease> restart will leak mem
17:39 <+MrHairgrease> gotta go to the grocery store
17:39 < luke___> it´s a ssl problem I´m think
17:39 <+MrHairgrease> bbl
17:39 <+MrHairgrease> in an hour or so
17:39 <+MrHairgrease> maybe eralier
17:39 < luke___> ok thx
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17:50 <@pbmdawg> luke; do you have outbound 443 open?
17:53 < luke___> nope
17:53 < luke___> I should install all ssl libs
17:55 < luke___> before I install the libs I want to find the leak and fix it or handle it better
17:56 <@pbmdawg> oh
17:56 <@pbmdawg> it's in LWP, I'm sure...
17:57 < luke___> yes, missing ssl support or something like this
17:59 < luke___> I´m installed the LWP Debian Package
18:03 <@pbmdawg> are you using the wre
18:03 < luke___> nope
18:03 <@pbmdawg> ok
18:03 <@pbmdawg> then installing debian packages might help you :)
18:04 < luke___> Readme.ssl in libwww:
18:04 < luke___> Encryption support is obtained through the use of Crypt::SSLeay or
18:04 < luke___> IO::Socket::SSL, which can both be found from CPAN.
18:05 < luke___> maybe one of it should checked in testEnviroment
18:06 <@pbmdawg> good idea
18:07 <@pbmdawg> looks like ssleay is updated more often
18:08 < luke___> yes
18:08 < luke___> should I add this ?
18:11 < luke___> strike, commerce is running :-)
18:11 < luke___> thx :)
18:12 <@pbmdawg> chansen you there?
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18:21 <@pbmdawg> welcome
18:27 < deymos> hi there.. i've found the info about this irc channel on plainblack.com... i'm just in the process of making another webgui site...
18:28 < deymos> anyone here alive and kicking? ;)
18:28 <@pbmdawg> I am
18:29 < deymos> nice ;) it says sysadmin next to your nick, so are you working on webgui or are you just the user?
18:29 <@pbmdawg> both
18:30 < deymos> good, cause i've found a bug ;)
18:32 <@pbmdawg> okay...
18:32 < deymos> which part are you working on?
18:32 <@pbmdawg> which version
18:32 <@pbmdawg> all of it
18:32 <@pbmdawg> heh
18:32 < deymos> the latest gamma...
18:32 <@pbmdawg> oh okay
18:32 < deymos> page.isSibling is not workin
18:32 <@pbmdawg> what's the bug
18:32 < deymos> i've Checked the Navigation.pm...
18:32 <@pbmdawg> it might have been removed, but not removed from the documentation
18:33 < deymos> and it seems one of the conditions is that the page.isTopBranch
18:33 < deymos> it's not removed. just the conditions in Navigation.pm are wrong.
18:33 < deymos> i've fixed it for me and it's working now, but it's just a hack
18:33 <@pbmdawg> oh
18:34 < deymos> i was trying to do nav menu with the template and realised it was buggy...
18:34 < deymos> the site is at www.contel.hr/2007 btw
18:34 <@pbmdawg> put the code diff on SF
18:34 < deymos> i'm not sure that the way i did it is the proper way to do it
18:34 <@pbmdawg> oh
18:37 < deymos> i spoke to JT some time ago, i wanted to open Croatian W3 site, but don't have time to do it... i've even registered the webgui.com.hr domain...
18:38 <@pbmdawg> site looks nice
18:38 < deymos> it's the best cms i've used. mambo is shit compared to webgui ;)
18:38 < deymos> the template is from oswd.org...
18:38 <@pbmdawg> cool
18:38 < deymos> and we'll go online with it tomorrow, so the content is in the making
18:38 < deymos> i have another site running on webgui.. www.hr...
18:39 < deymos> most iof the site... not the directory though
18:39 <@pbmdawg> neat
18:39 <@pbmdawg> ready to make a translation for wg7 ?
18:40 < deymos> i did the translation for 5.5 ...
18:40 < deymos> but never finished.
18:40 < deymos> oops... didn't understand what you asked ;)
18:40 < deymos> about the translation
18:41 <@pbmdawg> that's what I asked
18:41 <@pbmdawg> translating to whatever your language is
18:41 < deymos> oh, then i got it right... croatian...
18:41 < deymos> if i only had more time...
18:42 <@pbmdawg> I have to run... be back in a few hours
18:42 < deymos> ok... bye
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18:55 * MrHairgrease is back.
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21:25 < nbcccorp> Hey, anyone out there had any experience, good or bad, with Skype?
21:25 <+MrHairgrease> nope
21:26 <+MrHairgrease> not me anyway
21:27 < nbcccorp> oh well. It looks really cool and I was just wondering. It's easy enough to look around the net for people who have, I just thought I would start here since I've never been given bad WebGUI info here.
21:33 <@pbmdawg> skype is pretty good. :
21:33 <@pbmdawg> as for interfacing with POTS, Skype-In is good. Skype-Out is *okay*
21:39 < nbcccorp> What do you mean by *okay*?
21:41 <@pbmdawg> the first day or two I used it
21:41 <@pbmdawg> the quality of the audio was bad
21:41 <@pbmdawg> but since then, it's been fine
21:42 < nbcccorp> any dropped calls? garbage calls? ever have any privacy concerns with them?
21:42 < nbcccorp> rather: ever HEAR OF any privacy concerns with them?
21:53 <@pbmdawg> no...
21:53 <@pbmdawg> skype-skype is perfect
21:53 <@pbmdawg> I was talking about skype-POTS
21:53 <@pbmdawg> and yeah, occasional dropped calls with skype-POTS
22:01 < nbcccorp> how is their support? ever had to use it?
22:05 <@pbmdawg> no
22:05 <@pbmdawg> what types of services of theirs are you thinking of using
22:35 < nbcccorp> Sorry, I was in a full screen rc window and didn't see this.
22:36 < nbcccorp> I am looking at using them for home phone services. I can't seem to keep a decent connection with Cingular in my house and need to have reliable phone service in order to do tech supp.
22:37 < nbcccorp> I am looking at the whole range of services + international numbers for my clients in London to use.
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23:06 <+crythias> hee
23:06 <@pbmdawg> hi
23:07 < xdanger> hou
23:07 <@pbmdawg> WG7H8R
23:07 <+crythias> hee
23:08 -!- pbmdawg changed the topic of #WebGUI to: WebGUI 6.9.9rc0 release in 1 hour
23:08 <+crythias> ... and then she said, "rub her? I hardly even know her!"
23:08 < xdanger> o
23:09 < xdanger> wasn't it 6.99rc0 ?
23:09 <@pbmdawg> yeah, that too
23:09 <+crythias> rc0?
23:09 <+crythias> 6.99b1
23:09 <@pbmdawg> release candidate 0
23:10 <+crythias> yeahbut, rc? I mean, that's pretty um.. bold, no?
23:10 <+crythias> hehe
23:10 <@pbmdawg> nah.
23:10 <@pbmdawg> there's really not much different from 6.8.10
23:10 <@pbmdawg> just a bunch of new stuff
23:10 <@pbmdawg> heh
23:11 -!- pbmdawg changed the topic of #WebGUI to: WebGUI 6.9.9rc0 release in 50 minutes
23:12 <+crythias> "I'm not a strict vegetarian, 'cause I eat beef. and pork. and chicken. semi-veg"
23:12 <@pbmdawg> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/nB96fX77.html
23:12 <+crythias> sha-zaam
23:13 <+crythias> btw... what happened with the 6.8.9 release? why wasn't it "announced"
23:13 <@pbmdawg> better question
23:13 <@pbmdawg> why is the svn diff for that version blocked
23:13 <+crythias> need to lay the smackdown on ROy
23:13 <@pbmdawg> he didn't do that release
23:14 <+crythias> ah.
23:15 < xdanger> pbmdawg: how about the internal redirect testing ? I can do it maybe next week, or at least the next...
23:15 <+crythias> not certain like my computer.
23:15 <+crythias> maybe I need to convert my filesystem, 'cause the fat32 is mucking up bunches
23:16 <@pbmdawg> I haven't looked at it
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23:17 <+crythia1> did you see my new rfe?
23:17 <@pbmdawg> yeah
23:26 -!- pbmdawg changed the topic of #WebGUI to: WebGUI 6.9.9rc0 release in 35 minutes
23:32 -!- pbmdawg changed the topic of #WebGUI to: WebGUI 6.9.9rc0 release in 29 minutes
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23:41 -!- pbmdawg changed the topic of #WebGUI to: WebGUI 6.8.10 available
23:49 <+crythia1> yeah, 6810
23:50 <+crythia1> who will be testing this? would you be upgrading your hosting?
23:50 <@pbmdawg> 6.8.10?
23:50 <@pbmdawg> tiny security changes only
23:52 <+crythia1> no 6.99.0
23:52 <@pbmdawg> har
23:52 <@pbmdawg> plainblack.com will have it, I think
23:53 <+crythia1> converting... afn
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23:59 < luke___> WebGUI 6.9.9rc0 release in 29 minutes
23:59 < luke___> really ?
--- Day changed Mon May 15 2006
00:00 <@pbmdawg> 6.99.0
00:00 <@pbmdawg> shortly
00:00 < luke___> cool
00:01 < luke___> what´s about the ssleay should I add this to svn ?
00:01 < luke___> or should I open a bug ?
00:01 < luke___> or send a mail to discussion
00:01 < Deymos> will page.isSibling be fixed in this release ;)
00:01 <@pbmdawg> no; it's just an rc that probably 0 people will download
00:02 < luke___> :)
00:02 <@pbmdawg> oh wait; postponed till later this week
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00:29 < xdanger> why are some pages in svn::Wev unviewable? like https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/WebGUI%20SVN/revision/?rev=2141
00:30 < xdanger> mostly everyone that i've noticed are about 6.8 branch
00:45 <@pbmdawg> I'm not sure
00:46 <@pbmdawg> possibly they are blocked for security-by-obscurity reasons
00:46 <@pbmdawg> gtg; l8r
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01:50 -!- pbmdawg changed the topic of #WebGUI to: WebGUI 6.99.0 released!
02:03 -!- pbmdawg changed the topic of #WebGUI to: WebGUI 6.99.0 released! and installed on plainblack.com!
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04:24 <+crythias> argh
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20:25 <+crythias> sigh
20:39 -!- dc [n=Miranda@p5496F815.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #webgui
21:47 <+crythias> ... and then I said, "yes, but why would I need WD40?"
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22:12 <+crythias> howdy
22:32 < Baylink> ?
22:32 < Baylink> :-)
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22:39 <+crythias> ee
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16:57 <@pbmdawg> howdy Martin
17:01 <+MrHairgrease> howdy pardner
17:01 <+MrHairgrease> what is up?
17:18 <@pbmdawg> nothing
17:18 <+MrHairgrease> oh ok
18:16 < xdanger> damn... I really think that Event calendar's "start from Now!" doesn't work
18:16 <@pbmdawg> which version
18:17 < xdanger> 6.8
18:17 <+MrHairgrease> Wouter did a lot of evc fixes
18:17 <@pbmdawg> yes, EC is totally broken in 6.8
18:17 <+MrHairgrease> in 6.99
18:17 <@pbmdawg> unusable
18:17 <+MrHairgrease> I broken as hell in in 6.
18:17 <+MrHairgrease> 6.8*
18:23 < xdanger> ok
18:24 < xdanger> great
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22:20 * snapcount stretches
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22:59 <+crythias> reply count doesn't work
23:00 <+crythias> ... and then she said, "I keep moving it up and down and it still doesn't help. The water just overflows the bowl, and the plunger isn't doing a darn thing!"
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--- Day changed Wed May 17 2006
00:03 * MrHairgrease tests if his connection is still up
00:03 * MrHairgrease cries in joy
00:04 <+MrHairgrease> Still sucks though that port 80 is blocked somehow....
00:04 <+crythias> do what?
00:05 <+MrHairgrease> I'm typing...
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00:05 <+crythias> port 80 blocked on a machine you control?
00:05 <+MrHairgrease> no
00:05 <+MrHairgrease> that would be stupid
00:06 <+MrHairgrease> I dunno who fucked up
00:06 <+MrHairgrease> but I can't even get a webpage of the local server here
00:06 <+MrHairgrease> It's *not* my fault though
00:06 <+MrHairgrease> it never is =)
00:07 <+MrHairgrease> I'd rather blame Koen
00:07 <+crythias> heh
00:07 <+MrHairgrease> So are you guys pleased with 6.99
00:08 <+crythias> I don't like the forum stuff
00:08 <+MrHairgrease> what's wrong with it?
00:09 <+crythias> "Back to site"?
00:09 <+crythias> feh
00:09 <+MrHairgrease> back to site?
00:10 <+crythias> submit a post and it says, "waiting for approval. click the link: back to site"
00:10 <+MrHairgrease> oh ok
00:10 <+crythias> lame
00:10 <+MrHairgrease> sure
00:11 <+MrHairgrease> it's softawre after all
00:11 <+MrHairgrease> who has the ip for startrek.com?
00:11 <+crythias> somehow, it started off REALLY slow, as well on plainblack.com
00:11 <+MrHairgrease> my svn thingy is pretty fast
00:11 <+MrHairgrease> even in admin mode
00:12 <+MrHairgrease> aha
00:12 <+MrHairgrease> the dns is down
00:12 <+crythias> heh
00:12 <+MrHairgrease> stupid frickin university
00:12 <+crythias> ok. here we go. I clcik pb.com/discuss/mods...
00:12 <+MrHairgrease> or should I say stupid fricking student built networks =)
00:13 <+MrHairgrease> I can't follow you
00:13 <+crythias> now it's up
00:13 <+MrHairgrease> my dns is down remember
00:13 <+crythias> right, but I'm talking about my experience with plainblack.com
00:13 <+MrHairgrease> ok
00:13 <+crythias> 21 seconds to load a message board is insane.
00:14 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
00:14 <+MrHairgrease> that's definately not good
00:14 <+MrHairgrease> so maybe you should click faster =)
00:14 <+crythias> clicking Etcetera. now
00:14 <+crythias> up now...
00:14 <+MrHairgrease> 16
00:15 <+MrHairgrease> not too good
00:15 <+crythias> and it's not counting replies properly
00:15 <+crythias> Community: We need your help JT 51 0 0
00:15 <+crythias> 51: views 0 replies
00:15 <+MrHairgrease> I'd worry much more about the performance
00:17 <+crythias> I gotta head home. ttyl
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00:56 < luke___> hi roy
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19:04 < luke___> re
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19:06 < fdillon> snapcount!
19:14 <@snapcount> hola
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05:43 <@snapcount> Yippee!!
05:43 <@snapcount> peeps
05:43 <@snapcount> crythia1
05:43 <@snapcount> perlDreamer
05:43 <@snapcount> I maketh your windows blink
05:44 <@snapcount> ping ping
05:44 <@snapcount> syn
05:45 <+perlDreamer> yo
05:45 <@snapcount> greetings
05:45 <+perlDreamer> greetings, E-ROD
05:45 <+perlDreamer> what's up?
05:45 <@snapcount> so I'm writing a paypal plugin
05:45 <@snapcount> (the world rejoices)
05:45 <+perlDreamer> :)
05:45 <+perlDreamer> is this a for-fun or for-pay project?
05:46 <@snapcount> for-fun
05:46 <@snapcount> I've grown very familiar with commerce
05:46 <@snapcount> anywho paypal makes it very easy
05:46 <@snapcount> problem is the wG commerce system makes it kinda hard
05:46 <+perlDreamer> really?
05:47 <@snapcount> I want to put this in user contribs as a payment plug-in
05:47 <+crythia1> :)
05:47 <@snapcount> then JT is going to put in core for 7.1
05:47 <+perlDreamer> cool
05:47 <@snapcount> problem though
05:47 <+perlDreamer> what is it?
05:47 <@snapcount> I can't make it work w/o modifying Operation/Commerce
05:47 <+perlDreamer> That's a problem
05:47 <@snapcount> yeah
05:48 <@snapcount> that's not a plugin
05:48 <+perlDreamer> no
05:48 <@snapcount> that breaks upgrades
05:48 <+perlDreamer> what do you need to modify it for?
05:48 <@snapcount> because I need to return template vars from one of the operations
05:48 <@snapcount> that isn't there
05:48 <@snapcount> basically you redirect users to paypal
05:48 <@snapcount> but you post a bunch of form vars when you do
05:49 <@snapcount> basically all the crap they bought
05:49 <@snapcount> and who the vendor is
05:49 <+perlDreamer> is that required?
05:49 <@snapcount> which url they go to when they're done
05:49 <@snapcount> for basic paypal yeah
05:49 <+perlDreamer> hm
05:49 <+crythia1> that's basic paypal.
05:49 <@snapcount> otherwise we have another ITransact plugin
05:49 <@snapcount> which isn't useful to the masses
05:50 <@snapcount> b/c you have to be approved for a merchant acct to use it
05:50 <+perlDreamer> I see
05:50 <+crythia1> Are you saying you're having trouble sending info to the paypal thing?
05:50 <@snapcount> sort of
05:50 <+perlDreamer> no he's saying he can't do it without hacking the core
05:50 <+perlDreamer> which operation do you need to modify?
05:51 <+perlDreamer> which sub in the operation?
05:51 <@snapcount> checkoutConfirm
05:51 <+crythia1> Colin: Yeah, I know he's talking about hacking the core.
05:51 <@snapcount> I don't want to do that
05:51 <@snapcount> I can do it for 7.1 no problem
05:51 <@snapcount> but I wanted to release something people can use now
05:52 <+crythia1> people can always link to paypal's per-item thingiy
05:52 <@snapcount> the only other way...
05:52 <@snapcount> yeah
05:52 <@snapcount> but that kind of sucks
05:52 <@snapcount> you have to pay for each item one at a time
05:52 <+perlDreamer> so do you know of another way?
05:52 <@snapcount> well I don't know how to implement it
05:52 <@snapcount> but I have an idear
05:52 <+perlDreamer> what is it?
05:52 <+perlDreamer> do tell
05:52 <+perlDreamer> prithee
05:53 <@snapcount> the payment plugin executes a method called normalTransaction during the checkout process
05:53 <@snapcount> it's supposed to talk to the payment gateway
05:53 <@snapcount> if there were a way to post the form vars from that method
05:53 <@snapcount> and redirect them
05:53 <@snapcount> (at the same time)
05:53 <@snapcount> I could make it work
05:54 <+perlDreamer> I have two ideas
05:54 <+perlDreamer> 1) You should be able to do with with a ton of javascript
05:54 * snapcount is a JS retard
05:54 <@snapcount> but I could learn I guess
05:54 <+perlDreamer> 2) This is much, much more evil
05:54 <+perlDreamer> at the end of checkoutConfirm, it calls a template
05:55 <+perlDreamer> how about if you write a new template handler which does your magic for you
05:55 <@snapcount> yep
05:55 <@snapcount> a new template handler?
05:55 <+perlDreamer> sure
05:55 <@snapcount> dude
05:55 <+perlDreamer> instead of HTML::Template, or Template::Toolkit
05:55 <+perlDreamer> you just wrap them in something that does your transaction
05:55 <@snapcount> now that's outside the box
05:55 <+perlDreamer> and then returns them to a sane page
05:55 <+perlDreamer> I told you it was evil
05:55 <@snapcount> yeah
05:56 <@snapcount> so evil it's cool
05:56 <+crythia1> why not have spectre do it...
05:56 <@snapcount> explain?
05:56 <+perlDreamer> there's no hook into spectre at that point, crythias
05:56 <+perlDreamer> there could be, though
05:56 <+perlDreamer> but it would be another API level change
05:56 <+crythia1> I dunno. it seems payments should be async anyway.
05:56 <+perlDreamer> I agree
05:56 <+perlDreamer> but they're not now
05:56 <+perlDreamer> Clancy Brown rocks as the Kernigan
05:56 <+crythia1> seems perfect for what spectre was supposed to do.
05:57 <+perlDreamer> yes
05:57 <+perlDreamer> but there's no hook in the Commerce system for spectre
05:57 <+crythia1> workflow FTW
05:57 <@snapcount> JT has a morbid fear of Commerce for some reason
05:57 <@snapcount> he avoids that code as much as possible
05:57 <+crythia1> 'cause if you get it wrong, it's lost money, sales, etc.
05:58 <@snapcount> get what wrong?
05:58 <+perlDreamer> it needs a test suite
05:58 <@snapcount> yeah that would be cool
05:58 <+crythia1> are you doing webpayments pro or standard for paypal?
05:58 <@snapcount> standard for now
05:58 <@snapcount> although pro would be easier
05:59 <+crythia1> Seems like.
05:59 <@snapcount> but standard could be used by anyone
05:59 <@snapcount> with a paypal account
05:59 <@snapcount> without paying monthly fees, submiting dna, etc
05:59 <+crythia1> pro by anyone, and it's seemless to the site
05:59 <+crythia1> seamless
06:00 <@snapcount> they have to go through an approval process
06:00 <@snapcount> credit check
06:00 <@snapcount> basically they are being approved as a merchant
06:00 <+crythia1> well, do you want to use "Additional Payment Option" instead of paypal Website Payments?
06:00 <@snapcount> of course
06:00 <@snapcount> everyone has a credit card
06:01 <+crythia1> who is the everyone? hoster or customer?
06:01 <@snapcount> standard is nice because the merchant never handles cc#'s and other sensitive data
06:01 <@snapcount> so they don't care who uses it
06:01 <@snapcount> everyone == customers
06:01 <@snapcount> =)
06:02 <@snapcount> with pro... you receive the payment details directly
06:02 <@snapcount> so they are more picky
06:02 <+perlDreamer> did you see that the form upload bug is popping up again?
06:02 <+crythia1> https://www.paypal.com/IntegrationCenter/ic_addl-payment-option.html
06:02 <@snapcount> perlDreamer: wonderful
06:02 <+perlDreamer> yeah
06:02 <+perlDreamer> !yeah
06:03 <+perlDreamer> ~yeah
06:03 <+perlDreamer> NOT(yeah)
06:04 <@snapcount> so this express checkout is the same as standard
06:04 <@snapcount> but uses an API
06:05 <+perlDreamer> oh, you can also do it in the shipping method
06:05 <+perlDreamer> or the payment gateway
06:06 <+perlDreamer> since they call load, there's probably an eval in there
06:06 <+perlDreamer> and then you can do anything
06:06 <@snapcount> this is interesting
06:06 <@snapcount> there is a cpan module for paypal also
06:07 <@snapcount> hmm
06:07 <+perlDreamer> but I think the template hack is best
06:07 <+perlDreamer> since it does all the hard work for you
06:08 <+crythia1> heh php
06:08 <+crythia1> ahh yeah...
06:08 <@snapcount> I wonder how hard it is to write a template parser plugin
06:09 <@snapcount> is it just a sub that gets the template contents?
06:10 <+perlDreamer> yep
06:10 <+perlDreamer> the basic one is about 80 lines long
06:10 <+perlDreamer> including whitespace and comments
06:10 <+perlDreamer> check out Asset::Template::HTMLTemplate
06:11 <@snapcount> http://search.cpan.org/~scottw/Business-PayPal-API-0.30/lib/Business/PayPal/API/ExpressCheckout.pm
06:11 <@snapcount> check that out
06:12 <+perlDreamer> seems very complete
06:12 <+perlDreamer> too bad they make you redirect via them instead of working via pure services
06:13 <@snapcount> they do that to keep the credit card info out of your hands
06:13 <+perlDreamer> could you proxy their page?
06:13 <@snapcount> their pro stuff does use pure services
06:13 <@snapcount> eh
06:13 <@snapcount> that's probably not legal
06:14 <@snapcount> but maybe
06:14 <+perlDreamer> well, I think there's enough entry points to crowbar the system into doing what you want
06:15 <@snapcount> I think this express checkout is the cleanest way
06:15 <+perlDreamer> I meant the checkoutConfirm sub
06:15 <+perlDreamer> it's definitely hackable
06:15 <@snapcount> oh
06:16 <+perlDreamer> not in the intruder sense
06:16 <@snapcount> the template parser would be easiest
06:16 <+perlDreamer> yeah
06:16 <+perlDreamer> and least likely to get you whacked
06:16 <@snapcount> but it's a hack for sure
06:16 <+perlDreamer> definitely
06:16 <+perlDreamer> how are classes?
06:16 <@snapcount> this express checkout would keep everything in the payment plug-in though
06:17 <@snapcount> classes are done for Spring
06:17 <@snapcount> I'm taking one class this summer
06:17 <@snapcount> (first session)
06:17 <@snapcount> it's pretty cool
06:17 <@snapcount> Physics/Chemistry/Astronomy Introduction for Business Retards 101
06:18 <+crythia1> heya
06:18 <+perlDreamer> I have a new appreciation for what you're doing
06:18 <+perlDreamer> Kathy started college again
06:18 <+perlDreamer> so she's been studying a lot
06:18 <+perlDreamer> of course, she also dissects spines and eyeballs
06:18 <+perlDreamer> so I try to mind my P's and Q's around her
06:18 <+crythia1> Roy: JT asked about cut-paste job for RFEs on the boards. I responded to him, but didn't get a response.
06:19 <@snapcount> I got to dissect a sheep heart
06:19 <@snapcount> and a big ass worm
06:19 <+crythia1> :)
06:19 <@snapcount> crythia1: what?
06:19 <@snapcount> cut-paste job?
06:20 <+crythia1> would be ncie if boards didn't take 15 seconds to load
06:20 <+crythia1> http://www.plainblack.com/etcetera/community-we-need-your-help#vf3t5SiB_MtYe9JFw7Gnmg
06:20 <+perlDreamer> ha ha ha
06:20 <+perlDreamer> I'm invincible!
06:20 <+crythia1> :-?
06:21 <+perlDreamer> I rewrote the group membership code and injected a bug
06:21 <+perlDreamer> Vrby found the bug
06:21 <+crythia1> hahahahah
06:21 <@snapcount> go vrby!
06:21 <@snapcount> so you want me to go to that link crythias?
06:21 <+perlDreamer> so I fixed it today, but didn't test all the possible methods for group inclusion/exclusion
06:21 <+perlDreamer> so I just finished the tests, and the fix is pretty robust
06:21 <@snapcount> nice
06:22 <+crythia1> sure. or :
06:22 <+crythia1> In the next couple of days we're going to be setting up a new feature requests system right here on this site instead of the one on source forge. This new system will allow you to help rank the features so we know what features you want to see first. We're looking for someone who's willing to do the copy paste job to get all of the current feature requests moved over to the new system. In return we'll give you a whole pile of points w
06:22 <+perlDreamer> testing totally rocks
06:22 <+crythia1> :) yay, testing!
06:23 <+perlDreamer> are you coming to my class at the WUC?
06:23 <+crythia1> I'm not sure I'm going to be going.
06:23 <+perlDreamer> dude, you gotta come
06:24 <+crythia1> I'd love to go, but I may have a significant life change at the same time. And yes, I gotta go.
06:24 <+perlDreamer> life change?
06:24 <+perlDreamer> more kids?
06:24 <+crythia1> might move. maybe.
06:24 <+perlDreamer> that's pretty significant
06:24 <@snapcount> yeah you have to come
06:24 <@snapcount> move to Vegas
06:25 <@snapcount> then it will be cheap
06:25 <@snapcount> apparently I'm not an admin either
06:25 <@snapcount> just for some stuff
06:25 <+perlDreamer> with the group stuff broken, they weren't able to get some stuff working
06:26 <@snapcount> so are you guys coming to the pow-wow tommorow?
06:26 <@snapcount> I hope people show up =)
06:26 <+crythia1> I'm going to try.
06:26 <+perlDreamer> I have a lunch date with a 7 year old
06:26 <+perlDreamer> not going to be there
06:27 <@snapcount> is luke___ Luke Bartholemy?
06:27 <+perlDreamer> that's what his info says
06:28 <@snapcount> he's our next PBWG
06:28 <@snapcount> I just have to post all the stuff
06:28 <@snapcount> so I need to +v him
06:35 <@snapcount> this paypal module has tests included
06:36 <@snapcount> eh... but this kinda sucks
06:36 <@snapcount> Because I haven't figured out how to make SOAP::Lite read the WSDL definitions directly and simply implement those (help, anyone?), I have essentially recreated all of those WSDL structures internally in this module.
06:36 <@snapcount> If PayPal changes their API (adds, removes, or changes parameters), this module *may stop working*. I do not know if PayPal will preserve backward compatibility. That said, you can help me keep this module up-to-date if you notice such an event occuring.
06:37 <@snapcount> that's poo poo
06:38 <+perlDreamer> yeah, but that's the way with any service API
06:44 <@snapcount> ok... well I think this is the way to go
06:44 <@snapcount> but now it's time for bed
06:44 <+perlDreamer> g'night
06:44 <@snapcount> I will talk to you guys later
06:45 <@snapcount> thanks for pointing this out crythia1
06:45 <+perlDreamer> are you back on IRC semi-regularly?
06:45 <@snapcount> gonna try yeah
06:45 <+perlDreamer> cool, I'll hang here more often, too then
06:45 <@snapcount> I'll make it part of my daily routine
06:45 <@snapcount> to sign on here
06:46 <@snapcount> things are no longer crazy
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13:56 -!- pbmdawg changed the topic of #WebGUI to: WebGUI 6.99.1 to be released this morning.
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16:17 <@pbmdawg> howdy
16:27 -!- greghacke [n=greghack@66.162.187.24] has joined #webgui
16:32 < luke___> hi pbmdawg
16:39 <@pbmdawg> what's up
16:40 < greghacke> event management :-)
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16:50 < luke___> hi roy
17:08 <@snapcount> hey luke
17:12 <@snapcount> your pic is on webgui.org now!
17:12 <@snapcount> and your interview
17:12 < luke___> kewl
17:12 <@snapcount> I'm writing the press releases now
17:18 <@snapcount> also luke___
17:19 <@snapcount> is your nick registered with Freenode?
17:20 < luke___> yes
17:20 < luke___> i hope
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17:46 <@snapcount> ping
17:46 < greghacke> pong
17:48 <@snapcount> thanks
17:49 <@snapcount> I couldn't connect to pb.com so I was like uhhh..
17:49 <@snapcount> but JT is upgrading
17:49 < greghacke> yep - to 6.99.1
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19:23 < julied> desc Julie A. Duncan
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19:27 <@rizen> is luke_____ the same as lucas bartholmey (sorry about the misspelling)
19:28 <@rizen> is anyone actually here?
19:31 -!- rizen changed the topic of #WebGUI to: Where are the rough edges in WebGUI 7, and how can we smooth them?
19:32 -!- rizen changed the topic of #WebGUI to: Community IRC Day: Where are the rough edges in WebGUI 7, and how can we smooth them?
19:33 <+luke___> hi jt
19:35 <@rizen> howdy
19:35 <@rizen> it must be about 9pm there, am I right?
19:36 <@rizen> well, 8:30pm
19:36 <+luke___> in germany ?
19:36 <@rizen> aka 20:30
19:36 <@rizen> yeah
19:36 <+luke___> 6:30pm
19:36 <+luke___> 18:30
19:36 <@rizen> wow..i was way off
19:36 < xdanger> 19:35 in finland =)
19:36 <@rizen> i guess i was putting you in turkey or something
19:36 <@rizen> =)
19:36 < xdanger> I'm wondering that time is there =)
19:36 <@rizen> i mean a turkish timezoen
19:37 <@rizen> not the country
19:37 <@pbmdawg> yeehaw - only 1 request per pageview on plainblack.com now. (used to be 10-100, depending on admin mode).
19:37 <+luke___> :-)
19:37 < xdanger> Actually finland is in the same zone that turkey =)
19:37 <@rizen> matt: is that due to the headers thing you came up with for the wre?
19:37 <@pbmdawg> not entirely... some is due to snippet caching
19:37 <@rizen> alright, so i suck on my timezones
19:37 < xdanger> so how long until the gathering?
19:38 <@rizen> 2.5 hours
19:38 <@rizen> that is, if anyone even shows up
19:39 <+luke___> what for edges you mean ? bugs or ...
19:39 <@rizen> UI
19:39 <@rizen> processes
19:39 <@rizen> usability
19:39 < xdanger> so that's like 10pm in here
19:40 <+luke___> ok
19:40 <@rizen> xdanger: if you can't make it, don't worry, there will be other sessions
19:40 <@rizen> i'm planning at least two more
19:40 < xdanger> my "usability/graphics" expert can't make it, he has a funeral tommorw...
19:40 <@pbmdawg> rizen - 0 sub-requests if the /home link is clicked.
19:40 <@pbmdawg> 5 sub-requests if the reload button is pressed (css snippets refetched)
19:40 <@pbmdawg> 29 sub-requests if a Shift-Reload is done (everything refetched - JS/images/css)
19:41 < xdanger> he has critisized some factors of admin interface and I would really like you to hear his input on the matter..
19:43 <@rizen> matt: nice
19:43 <@rizen> we're getting better
19:43 <@rizen> if i wasn't running some big background processes on plainblack.com right now it would be really super fast
19:43 <@pbmdawg> heh
19:43 <@pbmdawg> demo sites upgrading?
19:43 <@rizen> you should have seen it this morning after the upgrade when nothing else was running
19:43 <@rizen> no
19:43 <@rizen> running the search indexer
19:43 <@rizen> it's indexing all 36,000 assets
19:43 <@rizen> on plainblack.com
19:44 <@rizen> =)
19:44 <@pbmdawg> have you created pop accounts for the various CSes yet?
19:44 <@rizen> no
19:44 <@rizen> i'm not entirely sure that I'm going to
19:44 <@rizen> at least not for all of them
19:44 <@rizen> haven't decided yet
19:45 <@pbmdawg> I can't wait to reply to support posts via email :)
19:45 <@pbmdawg> that'll be fun
19:45 <@pbmdawg> if I had a blackberry....
19:46 <@rizen> that one will be set up in the next few minutes
19:47 <@pbmdawg> plainblack.com is slow now
19:48 < xdanger> I'm really looking forward for the Project managment and time tracking assets =)
19:48 < xdanger> once they get "stable"
19:49 < xdanger> Only waiting for crm, and that would be all that I really need =D
19:49 < xdanger> we'll intergration to a calendar, maybe...
19:52 < xdanger> rizen: maybe you should have said 21 CET, since I belive that we europeans all use 24h times... (not sure)
19:52 <@rizen> maybe you should post a reply
19:53 < xdanger> =)
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19:58 <@pbmdawg> HEY gerald
19:58 <+crythias> heh
19:58 <@pbmdawg> HOW's it GOING
19:58 <+crythias> um. cool, I guess.
20:00 <+crythias> JT: what is the status on the RFE post you posted?
20:00 < xdanger> rizen: btw. is there anyone doing the benchmarking for the internal redirects?
20:01 <@pbmdawg> xdanger: no
20:02 <@rizen> gerald: i haven't even looked at it yet
20:02 <@rizen> just noticed your reply today
20:02 <@rizen> will probably work on it this afternoon
20:02 <@pbmdawg> bb in 2 hours
20:04 < xdanger> I could do the test tomorrow or the next... just don't now any other benchmarks than the ab for this =)
20:05 <@rizen> there are two types of benchmarks that i use
20:05 <@rizen> ab is certainly one
20:05 <@rizen> but i also like to use Time::HiRes
20:05 <@rizen> laced in the code
20:05 <@rizen> with $session->errorHandler->warn()
20:05 <@rizen> statements
20:05 <@rizen> cuz then i can get a good idea
20:06 <@rizen> of not only the whole overall performance
20:06 <@rizen> but the individual steps along the way
20:07 < xdanger> ok, that's what I have used also...
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20:10 <+crythias> what is left to discuss?
20:11 <+crythias> some of the stuff I'm assuming? is noted and fixed... like slow discussion boards?
20:12 <@rizen> we haven't even begun yet
20:12 <@rizen> and i'd prefer not to begin talking about rough edges until 2pm
20:12 <@rizen> so everyone can participate
20:12 <@rizen> but if you have other things you'd like to talk about
20:13 <@rizen> let's hear them
20:13 <+crythias> 2pm is two hours for you?
20:13 <+crythias> "_
20:13 <+crythias> :)
20:15 <@rizen> yup
20:20 -!- Cantona_in_swe [n=cantona@c83-248-121-139.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #webgui
20:21 <@rizen> welcome erik
20:21 < Cantona_in_swe> thanks!
20:22 <@rizen> just so you know
20:22 <@rizen> you're a bit early
20:22 <@rizen> 1.5 hours yet
20:22 <@rizen> before we begin
20:23 < Cantona_in_swe> yeah - I just wanted to see if I was at the right place =)
20:23 <@rizen> k
20:25 < Cantona_in_swe> Bug in th newest release? I noticed that the lock ability has been broken and it worked in .0 release
20:25 < Cantona_in_swe> BTW - I really like the way the "lock" has been implemented
20:26 <@rizen> works for me
20:26 <@rizen> i just did it on demo.plainblack.com
20:26 <@rizen> please keep in mind
20:26 <@rizen> that when you lock it
20:26 <@rizen> it doesn't show up locked for you
20:26 <@rizen> only for the other users
20:26 <@rizen> not in your version tag
20:26 < Cantona_in_swe> though I would like a smooth unlock (if entitled). As it is now I need to go to admin->versions. An "unlock" icon would be cool and a way to release the lock
20:27 <@rizen> i'm glad to hear that you like the lock
20:27 <@rizen> the problem with that is that you can't unlock
20:27 <@rizen> you either have to rollback the changes you've made
20:27 <@rizen> or you have to commit them
20:27 <@rizen> lock is really just an empty revision
20:27 < Cantona_in_swe> maybe a "quick commit"
20:27 <@rizen> there is a quick committ
20:28 <@rizen> look in your admin bar
20:28 <@rizen> after creating the lock
20:28 <@rizen> you'll see a "version tags" tab
20:28 <@rizen> with a "commit my changes" link
20:28 < xdanger> that's a great new feature btw ;)
20:28 <@rizen> thanks
20:28 * snapcount stretches
20:29 < xdanger> and that the adminbar doesn't show clipboard and packages if there are none ;)
20:29 < xdanger> aren't
20:29 <@rizen> correct
20:29 <@rizen> to save screen realestate more than anything
20:30 < greghacke> I miss anything cool?
20:30 <@snapcount> I stretched =)
20:30 < xdanger> but, we usually give the admin bar a fixed position so that you don't have to see it floating with you when you scroll...
20:30 < xdanger> don't now the real term for it, not a css guy =)
20:31 -!- luke___ [n=luke@skil.la] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:31 < xdanger> but so that it stays in sight even when yous scroll with out the "delay"
20:31 < greghacke> position: fixed
20:31 < greghacke> problem is, IE doesn't do well with fixed
20:31 < xdanger> could be =)
20:31 < xdanger> yeah, ie suxor major
20:32 < xdanger> we'll I'll be of to buy some beer and cat food =P
20:32 < xdanger> brb
20:32 < greghacke> or position: static ie has trouble with both and opera isn't fond of static
20:35 < Cantona_in_swe> I leave for a while - need to get some food :-)
20:35 <@rizen> see you in a bit
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20:38 <+luke___> re
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21:35 <@rizen> oh how i hate xml
21:35 <@rizen> let me count the ways i hate it
21:35 <@rizen> 1) it's bloated
21:35 <@rizen> 2) it's overly complex
21:35 <@rizen> 3) most people that design schemas don't know what an egg carton is, let alone what it has to do with eggs
21:36 <@rizen> 4) it's not pretty to read
21:36 <@rizen> 5) it's slow to parse
21:36 <@rizen> 6) cdata sections are messy
21:36 <@rizen> 7) the only thing worse than xml schema is xml dtd
21:36 <@pbmdawg> can anyone here read Swedish?
21:37 <@rizen> 8) matt probably likes xml
21:37 * pbmdawg barfs
21:37 <@rizen> 9) did i mention how fat it is, it's like like matt's mom, it needs it's own zip code
21:37 < greghacke> so who is everyone?
21:37 <@rizen> anybody more more matt's mom jokes?
21:38 <@rizen> very much like yo mamma jokes, but all about matt's mom
21:38 <@pbmdawg> my mom surrendered her windows pc to a botnet the other day. her aol account sent out 600 messages on Sunday before it was shut down by AOL
21:38 <@pbmdawg> (not joking)
21:39 < greghacke> you are mean. letting your mother use AOL
21:39 <@rizen> was that on mother's day?
21:39 <@pbmdawg> she's getting a mac mini as soon as I get home next week
21:39 <@pbmdawg> yeah
21:39 <@rizen> was it the mothers day attack
21:39 <@pbmdawg> don't know
21:39 <@rizen> i'm just making that up
21:40 * pbmdawg prepares a bugfix release of WebGUI Virtual Dev Environment
21:40 <+crythias> wow
21:41 <+crythias> "you've got spam"
21:41 <@pbmdawg> first release did not have mac address hardcoded
21:41 <@pbmdawg> and the centos iso in the cdrom
21:41 <@pbmdawg> thanks to greg for testing
21:42 <@pbmdawg> and it was missing dev.localhost.localdomain from the hosts file
21:42 <@pbmdawg> so spectre wouldn't start
21:42 <@snapcount> XML rulez
21:42 <@pbmdawg> n-e-waze
21:43 <+crythias> I was watching this lady going 35 in a 45 zone. cell phone in one hand, cigarette in another. My wife said, "that's really dangerous." I said, "I know, she's going to get brain cancer and lung cancer"
21:44 <@rizen> someone please fire roy
21:44 <+crythias> so, JT: why is xml so bad? It's great for perl processing to csv...
21:44 * pbmdawg fires Roy
21:44 <+crythias> I could do it in awk in like no time.
21:45 <@rizen> you could do what in awk?
21:45 <@rizen> fire roy?>
21:45 <+crythias> convert xml to csv
21:45 <@pbmdawg> s/xml/csv/g
21:45 <+crythias> heh
21:45 * pbmdawg rotfl
21:46 <@snapcount> never been fired with awk before
21:46 <+crythias> that'd be awk-ward
21:46 * snapcount kicks crythias
21:46 <@rizen> 10) xml is very easily corrupted
21:46 * pbmdawg klines crythias
21:46 <@rizen> 11) XML::Simple can't parse the XML feed from sf
21:46 * crythias pays xml a lil bit unda da table.
21:47 <@snapcount> isn't that like an oxymoron
21:47 <@snapcount> XML::Simple
21:47 <@pbmdawg> can anyone/anything parse anything from sf?
21:47 <+crythias> I could.
21:47 <+crythias> nobody asked me, I know.
21:47 <@snapcount> the NSA probably has a few machines lying around that could do it
21:48 < greghacke> having worked at NSA, don't be so sure about that...
21:48 <@snapcount> whoa... math geek?
21:48 <@pbmdawg> greghacke - as far as you needed to know.
21:48 <@rizen> 12) XML is a bad idea in most places, and a horrible idea everywhere else
21:48 <@snapcount> hehe
21:48 < greghacke> intel analyst and linguist for CT
21:49 <@snapcount> for Conneticut?
21:49 <@snapcount> don't they speak English =P
21:49 < greghacke> Counter-Terrorism ;)
21:49 <@pbmdawg> counter terrorism... don't you watch 24
21:49 <@snapcount> as a 24 fan... I should know that
21:50 <@snapcount> JT you can't continue complaining unless you start numbering your gripes in binary
21:51 <@rizen> shall i start enumerating the reasons that binary sucks as well
21:51 < greghacke> but you are only alotted two reasons binary sucks...
21:51 <+crythias> 10 reasons that binary sucks:
21:51 <+crythias> heh
21:52 <@snapcount> there you go
21:52 <+crythias> 0 gotta start with 0
21:52 <+crythias> 1 can't count higher than 1
21:52 <+crythias> :)
21:53 <@pbmdawg> since we're talking about rough edges in wG7 in 9 minutes
21:53 <@rizen> 0 hex is more efficient
21:53 <@pbmdawg> how about some not-so-rough edges?
21:53 <@rizen> 1 stack overflow
21:53 <@pbmdawg> (until then)
21:54 <@rizen> that sounds like another one of your construed fine lines
21:54 <+crythias> If at first you don't succeed, perhaps skydiving wasn't for you.
21:54 <@pbmdawg> fishing for compliments on wG7 with that last missive
21:55 <+crythias> ooh.. it's kinda prettier :)
21:55 <@rizen> kinda
21:55 <@rizen> kinda
21:55 <@rizen> kinda?!?!?!!
21:55 <@pbmdawg> the default style actually looks decent in IE!
21:55 <@pbmdawg> yay!
21:56 <@rizen> someone pull geralds toenails out with a rusty pair of pliers please
21:56 <+crythias> yeah. kinda ... as in white on gray is nice if it's bold enough.
21:56 <+crythias> (I'm talking about plainblack.com) sorry.
21:57 <+crythias> why is the hover cursor an I beam over the menu?
21:57 <@pbmdawg> report it to SF
21:57 <@pbmdawg> :-D
21:57 <+crythias> (now I'm talking about demo.plainblack.com)
21:57 <@rizen> dont' report it to sf
21:57 <@rizen> we're not using sf for bugs anymore
21:58 * pbmdawg cows in terror
21:58 <@rizen> plainblack.com/bugs
21:58 <@pbmdawg> *cowers
21:58 * rizen cowers
21:58 <+crythias> ooh. your own little wg vido on how to start.
21:58 * rizen whispers ' why are we cowering '
21:59 <+crythias> surprised the Edit button sill isn't cleanly transparent.
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22:00 <@rizen> Well, 14 for a first turn out isn't too bad.
22:00 <@pbmdawg> 2 o-clock
22:00 <+crythias> hah!
22:00 <@rizen> Welcome to the very first community IRC day everybody
22:00 -!- Meatbop [n=chatzill@24-183-53-58.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui
22:00 <@rizen> We're here today to talk about the rough edges in WebGUI 7
22:01 <@rizen> Hopefully you've all had a chance to check it out at this point.
22:01 <@rizen> If not, feel free to do so on demo.plainblack.com
22:01 <@rizen> What do I mean by rough edges:
22:01 <@rizen> UI Problems...things that don't look as clean as they should
22:02 <@rizen> Usability problems...things that don't work as well as they should
22:02 -!- mode/#webgui [+o Meatbop] by pbmdawg
22:02 <@rizen> Proccess problems...things that require more thought than they should
22:02 <@rizen> That's what I mean by rough edges
22:02 -!- fdillon [n=fdillon@66-190-54-175.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #WebGUI
22:02 <@rizen> So with that, anybody have some opening remarks?
22:03 <@rizen> Anybody have comments?
22:03 <@rizen> Questions about WebGUI 7?
22:03 <+crythias> go into admin mode doesn't work in the demo: http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1147978495_570/getting_started
22:03 <@rizen> Scathing rebuttle about anything I've said?
22:03 -!- mode/#webgui [+o fdillon] by snapcount
22:03 <+crythias> the link.
22:03 <@rizen> One more qualification
22:03 <@rizen> DO NOT use this discussion to report bugs
22:03 < greghacke> Having been toying with 7.0, I can tell you now that there are many functions that are very clean.
22:03 <@rizen> this is not the bug list
22:03 <@rizen> http://www.plainblack.com/bugs
22:03 <+crythias> when you log in, the link changes to http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1147978495_570/getting_started?op=auth;method=logout
22:03 <+crythias> ok. sorry.
22:04 <+MrHairgrease> Ok I have an issue
22:04 <+MrHairgrease> It's in the asset manager
22:04 <@rizen> is it a bug?
22:04 <@rizen> or something else?
22:04 <+MrHairgrease> the crumbtrail that sais where your are
22:04 <+MrHairgrease> no bug
22:04 <@rizen> ok
22:04 <+MrHairgrease> it just bugs me
22:04 <+MrHairgrease> the last (rightmost link) is the location where you are
22:05 <+MrHairgrease> It makes no sense to click omn a link that brings you to the exact same location
22:05 <+MrHairgrease> So I would opt to make clicking that link....
22:05 <@rizen> It bugs you that it's linked?
22:05 <@rizen> or that' it's there?
22:05 <+MrHairgrease> to return a pull down menu
22:06 <+MrHairgrease> just like the more function
22:06 <+MrHairgrease> I usually click on the name of the asset
22:06 <+MrHairgrease> in stead of the edit link
22:06 < xdanger> yeah, that would be nice
22:06 <+MrHairgrease> so I have to go back
22:06 <+MrHairgrease> and click edit
22:07 -!- Eric_ [n=chatzill@h460c184a.area2.spcsdns.net] has joined #webgui
22:07 <+MrHairgrease> the link doesn't bug me
22:07 <+MrHairgrease> it's that you cannot the asset where you are at
22:07 <+MrHairgrease> clear?
22:07 <@rizen> yup
22:07 <@rizen> written down and everything
22:07 <+MrHairgrease> cool
22:07 <+crythias> why are the edit buttons below the move grab icon?
22:07 <@rizen> What else could be better?
22:08 <@rizen> smoothed out
22:08 <@rizen> etc
22:08 < xdanger> btw. asset manager doesn't work in safari... (I know, I'll report a bug)
22:08 <@rizen> btw: safari isn't a supported browser
22:08 <@rizen> the edit buttons are below the drag icon because they are
22:08 <@rizen> why is the sky blue?
22:09 <+MrHairgrease> it has to do with breaking index
22:09 <+crythias> so put the drag to the left of the indicator icon?
22:09 <@rizen> gerald, the drag icon is where it is
22:09 <@rizen> cuz that's how it's positioned in the template
22:10 <@rizen> what is the "indicator" icon?
22:10 <@rizen> do you mean the class icon?
22:10 <+crythias> yes.
22:10 <@rizen> the one that tells you what type of asset it is?
22:10 <@rizen> tell me this
22:10 <@rizen> why would it be better over there?
22:10 <@rizen> also keep in mind that you're talking about two different templates
22:10 <+crythias> because people work from left to right. why split it?
22:11 <@rizen> the toolbar is in the asset template
22:11 <@rizen> while the drag icon is in the layout template
22:11 <@rizen> they're not part of the same toolbar
22:11 <@rizen> that's why they're split
22:11 <@rizen> drag is not a function of article
22:11 <@rizen> snippet
22:11 <@rizen> forum
22:11 <@rizen> or anything else
22:11 <@rizen> it's a function of layout
22:11 <@rizen> they can't be part of the same toolbar
22:12 <@rizen> cuz they are not in the same template
22:12 <+MrHairgrease> A solution might be to put the drag icon on the left
22:12 <@rizen> left of what?
22:12 <+MrHairgrease> Since most article and stuff are aligned left
22:12 <+MrHairgrease> it might be more clear what the drag icon belongs to
22:13 <@rizen> left of what?
22:13 <+crythias> or make a full div drag bar like a window.
22:13 <@rizen> you said on the left
22:13 <+MrHairgrease> the left side of the assetbox
22:13 <+MrHairgrease> still above
22:13 < xdanger> why not put the "drag-area" from the buttons until the right edge... like a window
22:13 <+MrHairgrease> but now it's algined right and above
22:14 <@rizen> xdanger, could you restate, i'm not getting you
22:14 <@rizen> btw...this is why the drag button is where it is and why it is...everybody has a zillion ideas
22:15 < xdanger> same what crythias is suggesting...
22:15 <@rizen> wait...let's back up for a second
22:15 < xdanger> I think...
22:15 <+crythias> |++++++++++++++++|
22:15 <+crythias> |[/][x][Edit][Cut][Copy]
22:15 <@rizen> why is the drag icon a problem at the moment?
22:15 <@rizen> maybe if i understand the problem
22:15 -!- julied [n=chatzill@julied20983.cameron.edu] has joined #webgui
22:15 <@rizen> i'll understand the solutions you're presenting
22:15 -!- nbcccorp [i=fwuser@rrcs-24-172-2-202.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #webgui
22:15 <+MrHairgrease> I do not have a problem with it myself...
22:16 <+MrHairgrease> but if you have a very wide asset...
22:16 < nbcccorp> not nice to talk about people's wide assets
22:16 <+MrHairgrease> the drag icon is way over at the right of the screen
22:16 <+MrHairgrease> while the other controls are left
22:16 <@pbmdawg> kind of like in the Dashboard, where the whole top row is a dragger
22:16 <+MrHairgrease> they don't seem to belong to each other
22:16 <@rizen> yes matt, that's the solution they're presenting
22:16 <+MrHairgrease> or the same asset if you will
22:16 <@rizen> but i want to know the problem
22:17 <@rizen> so martin has one problem
22:17 <@rizen> are there others?
22:17 <+crythias> it's a rough edge, and not convenient nor really that intuitive.
22:17 <@rizen> gerald: that's a useless statement
22:17 <@rizen> i get that it's a rough edge
22:17 <@rizen> what i'm asking is why?
22:18 <@rizen> why is it a rough edge?
22:18 <@pbmdawg> if the dragger were bigger, the cursor:move area would be bigger, and it would be more obvious that there even is a dragger
22:18 <+crythias> it's not convenient on a large screen to drag your cursor all the way to the left to do a frequent task.
22:18 <+crythias> to the right
22:18 <@rizen> your cursor is on the right most times anyway
22:18 <@rizen> cuz that's where your scroll bar is
22:18 < kmaclean> if you have side by side page layout template with 2 side by side articles containing wide tables, then you can't get at the drag icon on the left hand article
22:18 <+crythias> I use a wheel
22:19 <@rizen> see now that's a good answer
22:19 <@rizen> thank you kmaclean
22:19 < kmaclean> no prob
22:19 <+MrHairgrease> I agree with gerald that controls for the same asset should be in each others proximity.
22:20 <@rizen> So if we make a full length dragger bar
22:20 <@rizen> that runs the entire length of the top of an asset
22:20 <@rizen> does that solve all the problems listed?
22:20 <@rizen> methinks yes
22:20 <+MrHairgrease> that would be better
22:20 <@rizen> what do you think
22:20 <+MrHairgrease> I think yes
22:20 <@Vrby> I think yes
22:20 <+crythias> yes. and possibly *ducks* put the title in the drag bar.
22:21 < greghacke> actually, we prefer it to the right here. it's not a training issue or anything, it's a functional issue. well... what if we could just "also" use the asset indicator to drag?
22:21 <@rizen> greg: the reason you can't
22:21 <@rizen> is because the asset indicator is not a required element of a toolbar
22:21 <@rizen> and it isn't part of the layout template
22:21 <@rizen> it's the part of each asset template
22:21 < greghacke> Ah, see? is why you are you
22:22 <@rizen> ok
22:22 <@rizen> problem noted and will be corrected
22:22 <@rizen> next
22:22 < greghacke> so, full length I could agree with but title is... not good for me.
22:22 < greghacke> My q - 508 compliance, I need to add alt/title to all form elements. Right now, I can do it on many elements but not things like the login username/password input areas
22:22 < greghacke> (or can I and I just haven't realized it?)
22:22 <@rizen> everything is a template
22:22 <+crythias> for administration of the website, greghacke?
22:22 <@rizen> so you can do it
22:23 <@rizen> but it might be a pain
22:23 <@rizen> we went through a section 508 compliance thing
22:23 <@rizen> and alt on form elements was not mentioned
22:23 <+crythias> sorry. missed the change topic cue.
22:23 < greghacke> the only one i seem to still get hit on and the one i get he the input
22:24 <@rizen> steve: do you know, is alt a valid attribute of input tags in XHTML 1.0 strict?
22:24 <@Meatbop> that one hadn't come up, so I'm not 100% on it
22:25 <@Meatbop> alt does not sound like a vaild attribute of input
22:25 < greghacke> A. 508 Standards, Section 1194.22, (a) A text equivalent for every non-text element shall be provided (e.g., via "alt", "longdesc", or in element content).
22:25 < greghacke> Rule: 1.1.2 - All INPUT elements are required to contain the alt attribute or use a LABEL.
22:25 < greghacke>
22:25 < greghacke> * Failure - INPUT Element, of Type TEXT, found at Line: 384, Column: 4
22:25 < greghacke> * Failure - INPUT Element, of Type PASSWORD, found at Line: 386, Column: 4
22:25 < greghacke> that's what i get on my 6.99.x site
22:26 <@rizen> noted and will be investigated
22:26 <@rizen> next
22:26 <@Meatbop> one thing that i've noticed in my use of versioning is that when you're finished and you have the option to 'go back to site' it takes you to your homepage instead of the last page you were viewing, despite the fact that the url of the page you were viewing is still in the address bar
22:26 <@rizen> yup
22:26 <@rizen> that's by design
22:26 <@rizen> the reason is
22:26 <@rizen> the page you were just visiting
22:26 <@rizen> since it is in the commit process
22:27 <@rizen> may not yet be visible
22:27 <@Meatbop> ah, the delay
22:27 <@fdillon> but if you click on the "back to site" in the left hand nav, it takes you back to the page
22:27 <@fdillon> er right hand nav
22:27 <@rizen> next
22:27 <@fdillon> on that same admin screen
22:27 < Cantona_in_swe> For simplicity: today the editbar consists of asset type, edit, cut, copy, create shortcut. Is it posible to remove the cut, copy and create shortcut since (in our case) it is seldom used compared to edit.
22:27 < Cantona_in_swe> Maybe these features should only be accessible in Asset manager? Or what about a configable ? Or UI levele?
22:28 <@rizen> we had considered hiding them under the class icon menu
22:28 <+crythias> maybe hide them under (x)?
22:28 <@rizen> however, they are common enough
22:29 <@rizen> (x>
22:29 <@rizen> you mean delete?
22:29 < nbcccorp> in addition to that question (cantona) can we add shortcuts so instead of just edit,cut,copy we might have edit,cut,copy,display,security, etcc. ?
22:30 <@rizen> gerald: are you recommending hiding functions under th
22:30 <@rizen> delete
22:30 <@rizen> cantona: tell me this before we go further with this discussion
22:30 <@rizen> why is it a problem having them there?
22:31 <+crythias> yes, I was talking about hiding options under delete.
22:31 < Cantona_in_swe> since users click on cut and they dont now how o get it back
22:31 <@rizen> nbcccorp: this seems like it would just add clutter
22:31 <@rizen> gerald: you are no longer welcome to submit ideas
22:31 <@rizen> gerald: just kidding, but that's a bad idea
22:32 <@rizen> cantona: you don't teach your users about clipboard?
22:32 <@rizen> cantona: that's a very basic feature, and very important to webgui's functionality
22:32 < nbcccorp> maybe to you but I think it's kind of annoying to have to click edit then display when going through a bunch of different things. Why would simply extending the list of shortcuts be any more cluttered than just having 3 or 4? It's all on it's own line.
22:32 < Cantona_in_swe> many of ou users only have the ability to upload files (uilevel 1)
22:32 <+crythias> because delete to trash and delete to clipboard are all that different?
22:33 < Cantona_in_swe> and when they do this (replace a file) the get three other options - and they cant handle with it
22:33 <@rizen> nbccorp: because the act of adding something to anything else automatically means it's more cluttered
22:33 <@rizen> it's the definition of clutter
22:34 < nbcccorp> wow. thanks for the def. I do understand that but I don't agree that it will be more cluttered.
22:34 <@rizen> cantona: i see now
22:34 <@rizen> cantona: i think that could be made configurable by UI level
22:34 < Cantona_in_swe> cool
22:34 <@rizen> nbccorp: i wasn't trying to rip on you
22:35 <@rizen> nbccorp: sorry it came across that way
22:35 < nbcccorp> np. Sometimes it's hard to tell the diff. no sweat.
22:35 < Cantona_in_swe> What about adding "Lock" toi the control bar?
22:35 <@rizen> nbccorp: to me though this seems like much more of a nice to have feature request than an actual problem
22:35 <@snapcount> how do you change the rank of an asset in the asset manager?
22:35 <@rizen> nbccorp: please submit it as an rfe
22:36 < nbcccorp> However, I would rather have more shortcuts in one line than having to dig through multiple pages.
22:36 < Cantona_in_swe> and make that UI configurable as well?
22:36 < nbcccorp> agreed that it's more of a 'nice to have' than a problem.
22:36 <@rizen> snapcount: you drag the rank colum...but vrby says that's borked right now
22:36 <@snapcount> oh ok
22:36 <@rizen> cantona: lock is hidden under the class icon
22:37 -!- Eric_ [n=chatzill@h460c184a.area2.spcsdns.net] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 0.10.1/20040913]"]
22:37 < Cantona_in_swe> woohoo - new features =) (for me)
22:37 <@rizen> ok
22:37 <@rizen> now that the toolbar thing is resolved
22:37 <@rizen> next
22:37 <+luke___> What´s about renaming the Group "Secondary Admins" to "User Managers". They could only manage Users ?
22:38 <@rizen> luke: secondary admins can do more than just manage users
22:38 <@rizen> luke: with the right privileges, they can also manage groups
22:38 <+luke___> ooups, i take the question back :)
22:38 <@rizen> next
22:39 <+MrHairgrease> I have another
22:39 <+MrHairgrease> If you edit a template...
22:39 <+MrHairgrease> and click help...
22:39 <+MrHairgrease> you get the template asset help
22:39 <+MrHairgrease> in stead of the templatre namespace you're editing
22:39 <@rizen> good point
22:39 <@rizen> say no more
22:39 <@rizen> adding it to the list
22:39 <+MrHairgrease> I understand why it works this way
22:40 <+MrHairgrease> ah
22:40 <@rizen> added
22:40 <@rizen> next
22:40 <@snapcount> I think it might be nice if you could enable auto-commit again
22:40 <@rizen> snapcount: can't be done
22:41 < Cantona_in_swe> Versioning: locking assets: I would like to be able to see who locked a specific asset (today it says "locked" onMouseOve but not by who)
22:41 <@rizen> next
22:41 <+crythias> 15 seconds to load Etceter on plainblack.com?
22:42 <@rizen> cantona: you can't see that in the asset manager, but you can see it when you look at the revisions of the asset
22:42 <@rizen> cantona: if you'd like to see that, it's a nice to have, not a rough edge. please post it as an rfe
22:42 < Cantona_in_swe> ok
22:43 <+crythias> nm
22:43 <@snapcount> why have a link that says, "search" in manage assets... I think a search box would save a click
22:43 <@rizen> cyrthias: yes, i spent about 50 hours during this last dev cycle just speeding up cs
22:44 <@rizen> because you're switching modes
22:44 <@rizen> and eventually that will be more than just a couple input fields
22:44 <@rizen> you'll be able to search on date, owner, etc
22:45 <@rizen> next
22:45 <+crythias> speeds now.
22:45 <+crythias> that is to say, it's speedy, now. :)
22:46 <+MrHairgrease> I have one wouter mentioned
22:46 <+MrHairgrease> Wouter told me he'd like to copy assets in the am to the location where you are
22:46 <+MrHairgrease> in stead of the copy to clipboard->paste back cycle
22:46 < chansen> Good evening folks
22:46 <@rizen> cantona: i may add that last thing you asked for in 6.99.x somewhere...just depends upon time, ease of doing it, and whether it's going to cause any headaches
22:47 < chansen> Cantona_in_swe: svensk?
22:47 <@rizen> martin: like a duplicate feature?
22:47 <+MrHairgrease> no really duplicate
22:47 <+MrHairgrease> imagine
22:47 <@pbmdawg> chansen: stay on topic; meeting occuring
22:47 <+MrHairgrease> you want to edit a default template
22:48 <+MrHairgrease> so you want to have a copy of it in the same place
22:48 <+crythias> Yes.
22:48 <+MrHairgrease> it makes no sense to first copy it to the clipboard
22:48 <@rizen> ok, i call it duplicate, what do you call it?
22:48 <@rizen> we need a new button name
22:48 <+MrHairgrease> in the past temaplates and stuff used to have a copy button
22:48 <@rizen> cuz copy already copies to cliboard
22:48 <+crythias> I like duplicate.
22:48 <@pbmdawg> dupe
22:48 < chansen> pbmdawg: ok, sorry, I didn't thought it was a meeting
22:48 <+luke___> "Copy to"
22:49 <+crythias> I have a question: why does pasting remove from clipboard?
22:49 <+MrHairgrease> oh
22:49 <+MrHairgrease> I unstood you wrong
22:49 <+MrHairgrease> yeah duplicate would be a good name
22:49 <+MrHairgrease> enderstood* btw'
22:49 <@rizen> crythias
22:50 <@rizen> because you're dealing with asset instances
22:50 <@rizen> and in most cases
22:50 <@rizen> you don't need to paste a thing more than once
22:50 < Cantona_in_swe> chansen: ja, göteborg
22:50 <@rizen> next
22:50 <@rizen> duplicate added to list btw
22:51 <+MrHairgrease> thanks
22:51 <+crythias> will commerce be handled by spectre in the future?
22:51 <@rizen> how so?
22:52 <@snapcount> async payment processing?
22:52 <@rizen> do you mean like batch processing?
22:52 <+MrHairgrease> that's not possible in some cases
22:52 <@rizen> if so, no
22:52 <@rizen> because we'll never store peoples cc info
22:52 <+MrHairgrease> b/c you cannot contact spectre from outside webgui right
22:52 <@rizen> in the webgui db
22:53 <@rizen> that's true martin
22:53 <@rizen> but you could add an op to webgui
22:53 <@rizen> that would contact spectre
22:53 <+MrHairgrease> I think snapcount means PayPal APN
22:53 <+MrHairgrease> yeah that could be done I guess
22:53 <+MrHairgrease> Well
22:54 <+MrHairgrease> the real processing is done now by an hourly plugin
22:54 <+MrHairgrease> so tha'll move to spectre
22:54 * MrHairgrease gets back on topic
22:54 <@rizen> it already has moved to spectre
22:54 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
22:54 <+MrHairgrease> I know
22:54 <@rizen> ok
22:55 <@rizen> ok new topic
22:55 <@rizen> How many here have played with 7?
22:55 < Cantona_in_swe> what's the "graphics" in the admin bar all about?
22:55 < greghacke> Me
22:55 * MrHairgrease raises his hand
22:55 < greghacke> Quite a bit as you can attest.
22:56 <@rizen> just a few
22:56 <+MrHairgrease> Not very much right now cantona
22:56 <@rizen> or are most of you being quiet?
22:56 <+MrHairgrease> You can create palettes and upload fonts
22:56 <+luke___> little bit
22:56 < kmaclean> a bit
22:56 <+MrHairgrease> which ar eused by the graphing subsystem
22:56 <@rizen> of those of you who have played with it
22:56 <+MrHairgrease> It's only tied into the poll for now
22:56 <@rizen> a couple of questions:
22:57 < xdanger> I've been playing with svn version a long time now =) (mostly to see what new there is in it)
22:57 <@rizen> 1) Do you think that the goodness of the end result of 7, was worth the pain of 6?
22:57 <+MrHairgrease> yes
22:57 < xdanger> yes
22:57 < Cantona_in_swe> yes
22:57 <+luke___> sure !
22:57 <@snapcount> si
22:57 <@pbmdawg> what pain
22:57 <+MrHairgrease> It gavbe me a jog for two years
22:57 <+crythias> yes
22:57 <+MrHairgrease> a job*
22:57 <@snapcount> lol
22:58 < xdanger> when I started using wg in 6.0 and read the roadmap, my only comment was "I wish I could have 7 already"
22:58 < greghacke> without a doubt. we struggled through 6 because even those benefits were worth my pain
22:58 <@rizen> 2) With the exception of new features that you'll obviously want added in the future, does it meet your expectations of what 7 should be?
22:58 < xdanger> and It's been a long wait, but 7 is awesome
22:58 <+MrHairgrease> sure
22:58 < greghacke> rizen: it almost meets my expectations. in the 90th percentile
22:58 <+MrHairgrease> The only thing that could be better is speed
22:58 <+MrHairgrease> but that has improved a lot already
22:59 <@rizen> and as a follow-up of that question, what do you think should have been added to 7 to make it meet your expectations if it does not
22:59 < xdanger> crm
22:59 <@rizen> i don't mean what is on your wishlist
22:59 < xdanger> =)
22:59 <@snapcount> good one
23:00 <@rizen> i mean what did you expect to be in 7 that you don't think is there
23:00 <+crythias> themes? (question)
23:00 <@rizen> themes are there
23:00 <+MrHairgrease> pr0n
23:00 <+luke___> :-)
23:00 <@rizen> but they are called "Exportable Packages"
23:00 <+MrHairgrease> oops
23:00 <@Meatbop> heh
23:00 < xdanger> content syntication
23:00 <@rizen> you expected that to be there?
23:00 <+crythias> able to bookmark tabs? :)
23:01 < greghacke> I would say three things: a more robust commerce system and a system like ruby/rails' active record and no easy way to add a way to view a lsit-of-records (for new apps and some in place)
23:01 < xdanger> but that could be done via packages, i guess
23:01 <@rizen> what did we communicate to make you think that those things would be there?
23:01 <+MrHairgrease> The commerce system is still very basic
23:02 <+MrHairgrease> but that was how it should be
23:02 <+MrHairgrease> 7 were to be the commerce upgrade
23:02 <+MrHairgrease> will be*
23:02 <@rizen> greg, xdanger, and crythias: what did we say that made you think those things were going to be in 7?
23:02 <@rizen> how did we miscommunicate to let you down?
23:02 < chansen> greghacke: DBIx::Class and Class::DBI are more featurefull than active record
23:03 < xdanger> I haven't played around with workflow much, but I was under the impression that you could do some kind of programming like "When user register do this with this parameters"
23:03 < greghacke> MrH: not a matter of simplicity - a matter of erroneous records, data integrity issues.
23:03 <@rizen> xdanger: you can do those sorts of things
23:03 <+crythias> rizen: I'm sort of kidding, but if I make my own type of interface, I'm not sure I'd be able to point a URL directly to an open tab.
23:03 <@rizen> xdanger: you just need more activities to do more things
23:03 < xdanger> from admin console, or does it require a new workflor plugin?
23:04 < greghacke> rizen: it's not a miscommunication at all. the first point on commerce was re: experience. the second was more a desire (yes, should not have been included) the third was more of a functional operations issue
23:04 <@rizen> xdanger: what i mean is, it is possible to do programish type things with the workflow engine, but we didn't include any programish type activities with the workflow engine, on purpose
23:05 <@rizen> ok...
23:05 <@rizen> our time has officially come and gone peeps
23:05 <@rizen> any last words?
23:05 <+crythias> how about passthru being default instead of manual override?
23:05 <@rizen> huh?
23:05 < xdanger> rizen: In some mail you talked about apples automator, so I had an idea to do something like calling another workflow and do if/elsif/else kind of stuff
23:06 < Cantona_in_swe> from Sweden: good night =)
23:06 <+MrHairgrease> later
23:06 < greghacke> Yes. My last word. wG7 is without a doubt, the strongest engine I can see.
23:06 <@rizen> xdanger: yeah, we made a decision, halfway through coding the thing, to not include any programatic style activities by default at first
23:06 < chansen> Cantona_in_swe: sov gott!
23:07 <@rizen> xdanger: we wanted to first see how people were going to use the workflow engine, and then decide what activities to build
23:07 < xdanger> rizen: but are they comming? maybe hide under UIlevel ?
23:07 <@rizen> xdanger: can't say...wont' know until we start getting feedback
23:07 < xdanger> ok
23:07 <@rizen> ok peeps
23:07 <@rizen> if you want to continue this conversation
23:08 <@rizen> we'll be here again at 8am on tuesday
23:08 <@rizen> and 8pm on thursday
23:08 < xdanger> I love webgui, it's just a little bloaded, slow, does not work on debian stable =)
23:08 <@rizen> of next week
23:08 < greghacke> see you then
23:08 <+MrHairgrease> what happened with postgres support btw
23:08 < xdanger> but it's getting better, performance vice
23:08 -!- Cantona_in_swe [n=cantona@c83-248-121-139.bredband.comhem.se] has quit []
23:09 < kmaclean> later
23:09 <@pbmdawg> works in debian stable underwre
23:09 <+crythias> JT: I'll be glad to parse the xml
23:09 -!- snapcoun1 [n=Roy@adsl-152-31-196.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #webgui
23:09 -!- kmaclean [n=kmaclean@CPE0080c813a40b-CM000f212fc2ef.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:09 <@pbmdawg> anyone feel free to stay and discuss
23:09 -!- snapcount [n=Roy@adsl-152-18-133.dab.bellsouth.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
23:09 <+MrHairgrease> any people going to the wuc this year?
23:09 < greghacke> absolutely
23:09 < greghacke> i owe some drinks
23:10 * pbmdawg raises hand
23:10 -!- snapcoun1 is now known as snapcount
23:10 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by ChanServ
23:10 -!- snapcount is now known as snapcoun1
23:10 <@rizen> gerald: please do
23:10 <+MrHairgrease> why do you owe drinks?
23:10 <+MrHairgrease> to me?
23:10 <@fdillon> I'll be at the WUC =)
23:10 <+crythias> All I need is the artifacts part
23:10 <+MrHairgrease> that's a big surprise =)
23:10 < greghacke> yes, to you
23:11 <+MrHairgrease> why again?
23:11 -!- snapcoun1 is now known as snapcount
23:11 < greghacke> this is wooter, yes?
23:11 <+MrHairgrease> nope
23:11 <+MrHairgrease> wooter will be online next session
23:11 < greghacke> then it is...
23:11 * pbmdawg wooted the other day
23:11 <+MrHairgrease> But I'll gladly drink his drinks
23:11 <+MrHairgrease> np
23:11 < xdanger> I would like to come, but I'm not sure that I have the money..
23:12 <@snapcount> did my op=manageCron post make it before I fell off into the depths of cyberspace
23:12 < greghacke> that works too. anyone who worked on commerce i'll be drinking with.
23:12 <@pbmdawg> no
23:12 <+crythias> that artifact_history part is annoying, but I can handle it.
23:12 <@snapcount> we should put column headers on that screen
23:12 <@snapcount> with hover help explaining the scheduling notation
23:13 <+MrHairgrease> time to get a life
23:13 * MrHairgrease tries against all odds =)
23:13 <+MrHairgrease> later guys
23:13 <@pbmdawg> later
23:13 < greghacke> ciao
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23:14 <@snapcount> so I want to hear from the new comers...
23:14 <@snapcount> first off welcome =)
23:15 <@snapcount> who is cheecheeo
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23:15 <@snapcount> and julied?
23:15 < greghacke> what is a "newcomer"?
23:15 <@snapcount> alrighty then ...
23:15 <@snapcount> someone new to the channel that I haven't seen before
23:15 <+crythias> newcomers were on that movie "AlienNation"
23:15 <@Meatbop> good flick
23:15 <@snapcount> you don't count Greg?
23:16 <@snapcount> =)
23:16 <+luke___> :) bye *
23:16 <@snapcount> I can't type
23:16 <@snapcount> rizen: I need an administrative assistant to type for me
23:16 <@snapcount> =P
23:16 <@rizen> gerald, what's your email addy?
23:17 <+crythias> me@gwy.org
23:17 <@rizen> can it handle a 6.5mb file?
23:17 <+crythias> yeah.
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23:18 <+crythias> rizen: what do you want in return?
23:19 <@rizen> what do you mean
23:19 <@rizen> file is away
23:19 <@rizen> it's zipped to make it much smaller
23:19 <@rizen> 1.1mb
23:19 <+crythias> do you want this to be copy-pasted or can you handle a csv?
23:19 <@rizen> csv will be troublesome at best
23:20 <@rizen> because there will be a lot of garbage data in there
23:20 <@rizen> i'd say either import it into a database and give me a dump
23:20 <@rizen> or output it as JSON
23:20 <+crythias> you want .sql? sure.
23:21 <+crythias> how do you want to handle responses and changes to fields?
23:21 <@rizen> throw out changes to fields
23:21 <@rizen> couldn't care less
23:21 <@rizen> all i really want is title
23:21 <@rizen> aka summary
23:21 <@rizen> and the message itself
23:21 <@rizen> as far as comments
23:22 <@rizen> append them to the message
23:22 <@rizen> or break them out
23:22 <@rizen> don't care
23:22 <@rizen> the main message is the most important part
23:22 <@rizen> throw out anything closed, pending, etc
23:22 <@rizen> and don't include anything in the fix list
23:22 <@rizen> only from the rfe list
23:22 <+crythias> no problem
23:23 <@rizen> thanks man
23:23 <@rizen> i'll give you a pile of karma for htat
23:23 <@rizen> that
23:25 <+crythias> kewl.
23:25 <+crythias> thanks for grabbing the raw data en masse. it'll help bunches.
23:25 <+crythias> gtg ttfn
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23:45 <@pbmdawg> mob dispersed
23:45 < greghacke> not me!
23:45 < greghacke> you just missed frank
23:46 <@pbmdawg> :-D
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00:09 < greghacke> so is this like the hang-out?
00:10 < xdanger> yeah
00:10 < greghacke> so how do i know who is whom?
00:10 < xdanger> /whois
00:10 < xdanger> =)
00:11 < greghacke> that would work...
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04:32 <+crythias> hey
04:33 <+crythias> http://rafb.net/paste/results/RCB55F71.html
04:33 <+crythias> :)
04:33 <+crythias> I'm getting closer
04:44 < snapcoun1> hmm
04:44 < snapcoun1> How much Karma are you getting for doing this?
04:45 <+crythias> I'm kinda distracted with tv while I'm doing this :)
04:45 <+crythias> dunno. "bunches"?
04:45 < snapcoun1> I figured out how to do Paypal
04:45 <+crythias> kewl!
04:45 <+crythias> how?
04:45 < snapcoun1> I'm going to bypass the commerce system
04:45 <+crythias> and ... did I help, any?
04:45 < snapcoun1> yes
04:45 < snapcoun1> very much so
04:45 < snapcoun1> I'm going to write a paypal asset
04:46 < snapcoun1> here's the idea
04:46 <+crythias> kewlio.
04:46 < snapcoun1> I will distribute a modified commerce template for viewCart
04:46 < snapcoun1> so they can use the std wG shopping cart
04:46 < snapcoun1> like normal
04:46 < snapcoun1> but when they click pay
04:46 < snapcoun1> they will go to my paypal assets methods
04:46 < snapcoun1> then, my asset can get everything from their cart
04:47 < snapcoun1> redirect them, and all that fun stuff
04:47 < snapcoun1> whatever needs to be done
04:47 < snapcoun1> then, I can record the transaction details in the commerce systems transaction tables
04:48 < snapcoun1> it will have templates for each step of the process
04:48 < snapcoun1> and the asset will allow you to set the config params sent to paypal
04:48 <+crythias> which is the interface Paypal is using?
04:48 < snapcoun1> to make their pages look like yours
04:48 < snapcoun1> colors, logo, etc
04:48 < snapcoun1> SOAP::Lite
04:49 < snapcoun1> but I'm going to use the paypal lib I found on CPAN
04:49 < snapcoun1> which wraps it into the same SDK methods paypal distributes for other languages
04:49 < snapcoun1> will make it very clean
04:50 < snapcoun1> so, what do you think?
04:50 <+crythias> nice.
04:50 < snapcoun1> the only thing that sucks about it is this
04:50 <+crythias> I was wondering if web payments standards or alternate payment method.
04:50 < snapcoun1> I'm going to use express checkout
04:50 < snapcoun1> the link you sent me
04:51 < snapcoun1> is that a paypal pro or standard thing?
04:51 < snapcoun1> I couldn't figure that out on their page
04:51 <+crythias> that seemed like a reasonable thing. the only thing I didn't know if you figured out how to report success of order from paypal?
04:52 < snapcoun1> when you send them to paypal
04:52 < snapcoun1> you send paypal a returnUrl
04:52 < snapcoun1> they post a token to it
04:52 < snapcoun1> then your method posts back to them
04:52 < snapcoun1> and asks for the transaction result
04:52 <+crythias> http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_merchant-outside
04:53 <+crythias> on the left, click additional payment options.
04:54 <+crythias> (the link is the result of clicking "Merchant Tools" on the main paypal page.
04:55 < snapcoun1> I found it
04:55 < snapcoun1> I'm going to use "Additonal Payment Option"
04:55 < snapcoun1> but it will be the only option
04:55 < snapcoun1> =)
04:55 <+crythias> seems to be reasonable to me.
04:55 < snapcoun1> only bad thing is that customers can't select other configured payment gateways
04:55 < snapcoun1> however
04:56 < snapcoun1> they can use cc#, paypal, or check
04:56 <+crythias> can't because of template?
04:56 < snapcoun1> because I can't add paypal as an option to the gateway screen
04:56 < snapcoun1> without making it a payment plug-in
04:56 <+crythias> show me?
04:57 < snapcoun1> and then we're back to all the problems I discussed last night
04:57 <+crythias> ok. demo.. then ...
04:58 < snapcoun1> line 914
04:58 < snapcoun1> Operation/Commerce.pm
04:58 < snapcoun1> the problem is the submit button
04:58 < snapcoun1> I'd have to have two of them
04:58 < snapcoun1> one for paypal (that posted to my asset)
04:58 < snapcoun1> and one for regular commerce
04:59 <+crythias> oh
04:59 <+crythias> oh!
04:59 < snapcoun1> so you see my kunundrum
04:59 < snapcoun1> sp?
04:59 < snapcoun1> anyways
04:59 < snapcoun1> I don't think it's that big of deal
04:59 < snapcoun1> and it's only until 7.1 is out supposedly
04:59 <+crythias> yes, you have to intercept the submit
05:00 <+crythias> by changing the action in the form...
05:00 < snapcoun1> yeah
05:00 < snapcoun1> or having two forms
05:00 < snapcoun1> with two buttons
05:01 < snapcoun1> anyways... I'm going to charge forward
05:01 < snapcoun1> time to start coding!!
05:01 < snapcoun1> woo hoo
05:01 <+crythias> change the action to preparse?
05:01 <+crythias> that's easy in the template.
05:02 <+crythias> if paypal is selected, do that, otherwise do the other.
05:02 < snapcoun1> with JS you mean?
05:02 <+crythias> no form action
05:02 < snapcoun1> how can you make a submit button dynamically change the action of a form depending on what's selected?
05:02 <+crythias> don't.
05:03 <+crythias> just change the action in the