--- Log opened Sat Apr 01 00:00:15 2006
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22:08 <+perlDreamer> boy, it's so quiet in here
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06:57 < xdanger> crythias: do you have an idea when is 6.8.8 comming out ?
06:57 <+crythias> nope
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10:11 < xdanger> crythias: just noticed something that I don't have time to verify, but does denied content (a CS Post for example) ever get expired and moved to trash ?
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19:31 <+crythias> and then the guy said, "what do you mean... legume?"
19:31 <+crythias> oh. :)
19:33 < Baylink> Henh?
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18:15 <+crythias> \
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20:02 < xdanger> chansen: did you guys ever post a mail about how to use the Devel::Autoprofiler ?
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21:01 < xdanger> perlDreamer: was there any resolution howto use Devel::Autoprofiler or something like that ?
21:01 <+perlDreamer> I don't know
21:01 <+perlDreamer> last I heard they put something into to core, though
21:01 <+perlDreamer> but that was months ago
21:01 <+perlDreamer> are you talking about something recent?
21:02 < xdanger> the thing that was talked about on the dev-list a fe moths a go..
21:02 <+perlDreamer> okay, then yeah
21:02 <+perlDreamer> it's in the core
21:02 <+perlDreamer> if you check the dev email list, I'm pretty sure Len posted how to set it up
21:03 < xdanger> A
21:03 <+perlDreamer> it basically adds another handler for mod_perl which wraps all subroutines and times them.
21:03 <+perlDreamer> then it post-processes the page and adds the data to it
21:04 < xdanger> i think I just didn't look hard enough...
21:10 < chansen> xdanger: pong
21:10 < chansen> ah, already resolved :)
21:13 < xdanger> does that work in 6.8 ?
21:14 <+perlDreamer> I
21:14 <+perlDreamer> uh
21:14 <+perlDreamer> I don't know
21:14 <+perlDreamer> guessing not
21:14 < chansen> xdanger: you could try http://search.cpan.org/dist/Apache-DB/lib/Apache/SmallProf.pm
21:14 < WRE> <chansen> http://tinyurl.com/ehpkw
21:15 <+perlDreamer> what's the end goal?
21:22 < xdanger> yes it worked in 6.8
21:22 < xdanger> I'm just having a problem that my files in CS doesn't show...
21:22 <+perlDreamer> are you using the default templates?
21:24 < xdanger> nope, but was there a any changes in thouse between 6.7 and 6.8
21:24 <+perlDreamer> I wouldn't doubt it
21:25 <+perlDreamer> you could find out by checking the update files
21:25 < xdanger> I'm upgrading a client of mine to use 6.8 and it has some custom changes in Storage.pm (mainly to sort file list and iclude metadata in files)
21:25 < xdanger> A did, but didn't notice anything
21:45 < xdanger> oh, yeah... if I add a new post it works, only ALL the old files in any cs don't work
21:53 <+perlDreamer> I don't suppose you upgraded from Mysql 4 to Mysql 5 recently?
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22:10 < xdanger> perlDreamer: still using 4.1 but I have re on my dev box that I'm testing the upgrade on..
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22:31 < bcnx> Hi all
22:31 < bcnx> I'm officially going crazy
22:32 < bcnx> it's been 4 weeks now and WebGUI hasn't run longer than 3 days in a row
22:32 < bcnx> had all sorts of problems
22:32 < bcnx> it finally looked OK, and now this again
22:32 < bcnx> any specialists around?
22:37 < xdanger> are you using wre ?
22:38 < bcnx> no, that's not really an option
22:38 < xdanger> hat version of wg ?
22:38 < xdanger> what
22:38 < bcnx> 6.8.7
22:38 < bcnx> latest
22:38 < xdanger> are you using Apache::SizeLimit ?
22:38 < xdanger> webgui leaks memory
22:38 < bcnx> aha
22:38 < xdanger> apache process get too large
22:39 < bcnx> I had signs of a memory leak
22:39 < bcnx> but I restarted Apache already several times
22:39 < xdanger> there's your answer ;)
22:39 < bcnx> shouldn't the issue be resolved when restarting Apache then?
22:40 < xdanger> yes.. I think so
22:40 < bcnx> well, it doesn't ...
22:41 < xdanger> try to do a complete apachectl stop;apachectl start
22:41 < xdanger> does that solve it ?
22:41 < bcnx> let me try
22:41 < bcnx> vope
22:41 < bcnx> nope
22:41 < bcnx> same thing
22:42 < bcnx> I get this all the time in my log file:
22:42 < bcnx> Can't call method "quote" on an undefined value at /work/data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm
22:42 < bcnx> that points to a conf fiel with wrong mysql info
22:42 < bcnx> but that's not the case
22:42 < bcnx> I can connect and testEnvironment.pl works flawlessly
22:42 < xdanger> mysql running ?
22:43 < bcnx> surez
22:43 < bcnx> sure
22:43 < xdanger> try turning debug on
22:43 < bcnx> of WebGUI?
22:43 < xdanger> hmm... well you can't since you can't connect to it =D
22:43 < xdanger> my bad
22:43 < bcnx> :-)
22:44 < xdanger> does that hapen on every page ?
22:44 < bcnx> I can do sql dumps and stuff
22:44 < bcnx> I tried the homepage
22:44 < xdanger> and what is your mysql version ?
22:44 < bcnx> let me try another
22:44 < bcnx> 5
22:44 < bcnx> yup, every page
22:45 < bcnx> and thinking I just offered to help translating WebGUI to Dutch  :-s
22:45 < bcnx> need to get it working first :-(
22:45 < xdanger> have consulted with the dutch team ?
22:45 < bcnx> not about this issue, no
22:46 < xdanger> ment avout the translation
22:46 < xdanger> about
22:46 < bcnx> yes, I got in touch with some guy: Arjan Widlak
22:46 < bcnx> of WOSSA
22:46 < xdanger> is your site online at some public address ?
22:46 < bcnx> yes
22:46 < bcnx> http://www.bitsntricks.com
22:47 < bcnx> well, "online" ...
22:47 < bcnx> :-)
22:47 < xdanger> nice domain =)
22:47 < bcnx> thank you!  :-$
22:47 < bcnx> I need some tricks now :-)
22:47 < xdanger> look at webgui.log
22:47 < xdanger> maybe that will help something
22:47 < bcnx> I did, nothing in there
22:47 < xdanger> and apache log ?
22:48 < xdanger> well apache error log ;)
22:48 < bcnx> there I get the "call method "quote" " thing
22:48 < bcnx>  Can't call method "quote" on an undefined value at /work/data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm
22:49 < xdanger> that sounds like something todo with your databases integrity..
22:49 < xdanger> make a nother db in mysql and install the default/install sql there and try that one..
22:49 < bcnx> well, I tried with an empy one
22:50 < bcnx> yeah, did just that
22:50 < xdanger> ok, didn't work ?
22:50 < bcnx> clean WebGUI db
22:50 < bcnx> no, strange huh
22:50 < xdanger> wery =)
22:50 < xdanger> very =)
22:50 < bcnx> yeah
22:50 < bcnx> it's amazing, the amoutn of bad luck I had
22:51 < bcnx> I stil feel WebGUI is the bomb, but I'd love to see it finally running smoothly
22:51 < xdanger> what's the os ?
22:51 < bcnx> I'm glad it's just for me, not for a customer  :-s
22:51 < bcnx> Suse SLES9
22:51 < xdanger> =P
22:53 < bcnx> Because of some previous issues I already upgraded Perl and MySQL
22:53 < bcnx> but it ran OK for some days
22:53 < bcnx> mmm, I see webgui.log is empty as well for the last two days
22:53 < bcnx> My site wnet down 2 or 3 days ago ...
22:53 < bcnx> odd
22:58 < xdanger> it is
22:58 < xdanger> sorry that I couldn't help you solve that =(
22:58 < bcnx> no problem xdanger, I appreciate the effort
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23:07 < bcnx> thx again xdanger for trying to remedy this "impossible" one
23:07 < bcnx> it looks like I'm going to spend my fifth week in trying ot get WebGUI running
23:07 <+crythias> because?
23:07 < bcnx> hope it runs in time before version 7.0, because than w estart translating
23:08 < bcnx> ow, Hi crythias
23:08 <+crythias> greetings.
23:08 <+crythias> 5 weeks?
23:08 < bcnx> yeah, it's been one thing after the other
23:08 < bcnx> it ws running fine now for 3 whole days
23:08 < bcnx> and now this:
23:08 < bcnx> "Can't call method "quote" on an undefined value at /work/data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm"
23:08 < bcnx> BUT
23:08 < bcnx> the mysql connection works fine
23:09 <+crythias> usually password
23:09 < bcnx> no issues with user/pass things
23:09 < bcnx> no, cause testEnvironment.pl works OK
23:09 < bcnx> also a sql dump with the same creds works OK
23:09 <+crythias> empty cache?
23:09 < bcnx> how can I do that outside of WebGUI?
23:10 <+crythias> I think it's /tmp/WebGUI..
23:10 <+crythias> hrm. forgot
23:10 < bcnx> rm -rf ?
23:10 <+crythias> sire
23:10 <+crythias> sure
23:10 < bcnx> ok, hang on
23:11 < bcnx> no luck
23:11 <+crythias> webgui.log?
23:11 < bcnx> empty since the problems
23:12 <+crythias> apache-error.log?
23:12 < bcnx> "Can't call method "quote" on an undefined value at /work/data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm"
23:12 <+crythias> can you paste more lines? http://www.rafb.net/paste
23:13 < bcnx> I've got only that one
23:13 < bcnx> and this one:
23:13 < bcnx> Can't call method "quote" on an undefined value at /work/data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm line 640
23:13 < bcnx> for just half an hout
23:13 < bcnx> hour
23:14 < bcnx> but now it's the "prepare" thing again
23:14 < bcnx> this is the URL:
23:14 < bcnx> http://www.bitsntricks.com/
23:14 <+crythias> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/yERAJz35.html
23:14 < WRE> <crythias> http://tinyurl.com/ql3su
23:15 <+crythias> interesting mod_perl isn't listed ...
23:15 < bcnx> it's loaded though
23:16 <+crythias> this error I encountered I can't troubleshoot.
23:16 < bcnx> at least, I see apache complaining when it's trying to load a second time (need to remoeve that form the conf files)
23:16 <+crythias> not from outside, anyway.
23:17 < bcnx> are there anymore things I can try?
23:17 <+crythias> I'd be willing to look at logs, etc...
23:17 <+crythias> but you not getting webgui.log is telling.
23:17 <+crythias> did you create/modify the log.conf?
23:18 < bcnx> webgui.log is empty for some days
23:18 < bcnx> no, not really
23:18 < bcnx> initially I change dthe logfile path and name
23:18 < bcnx> but that's already some time ago
23:26 <+crythias> but you're not seeing any entries?
23:26 < bcnx> no
23:26 < bcnx> last one os from april second
23:26 <+crythias> that doesn't make sense to me.
23:26 <+crythias> when was the last time apache was restarted?
23:26 < bcnx> the permissions for that file are good nonetheless
23:27 < bcnx> 10 minutes ago
23:28 <+perlDreamer> if you're using MySQL 5, is this an upgrade or did you start with v5?
23:29 <+crythias> currently connection refused
23:29 < bcnx> yeah, am restarting apache
23:29 < bcnx> I'm thinking about restarting the machine
23:30 < bcnx> perldreamer: I think I removed v4 first
23:30 < bcnx> and then installed v5
23:30 <+perlDreamer> that's not the problem
23:30 < bcnx> I'm going to reboot the machine
23:30 <+perlDreamer> if you use a v4 database in v5 then you're going to end up with a corrupt database
23:32 < bcnx> no, I started fresh in v5
23:33 <+perlDreamer> I'm starting kind of late in the conversation,but what exactly do you have to do to get the "quote" warning?
23:33 <+perlDreamer> view a page
23:33 <+perlDreamer> turn on admin?
23:33 < bcnx> it's not mainly "quote" but the other error
23:33 < bcnx> "prepare"
23:34 <+perlDreamer> I don't see the prepare error in my IRC log, could you paste it please?
23:36 < bcnx> if the machine reboots, I'll paste it
23:42 < bcnx> Can't call method "prepare" on an undefined value at /work/data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm line 473
23:42 <+perlDreamer> nothing before or after it?
23:42 <+perlDreamer> and what did you do to cause it?
23:43 < bcnx> the same error over and over again
23:44 < bcnx> good question
23:44 < bcnx> that last thing I remember was changing the root password for mysql
23:44 < bcnx> but that shouldn't affect anything
23:44 <+perlDreamer> does it happen when you start the web server?
23:44 <+perlDreamer> or when you view a page?
23:44 < bcnx> When you view the page I think
23:44 < bcnx> let me check
23:45 < bcnx> it happens when visiting the page
23:46 <+perlDreamer> the home page?
23:46 < bcnx> yes
23:46 <+perlDreamer> what's on the home page?
23:46 < bcnx> you can see for yourself: http://www.bitnstricks.com
23:46 < bcnx> oops
23:47 < bcnx> http://www.bitsntricks.com
23:47 <+perlDreamer> uh, I mean what assets are on the main page?
23:47 <+perlDreamer> articles, CS, etc?
23:47 < bcnx> ah, ok
23:48 < bcnx> the homepage is empty, only text
23:48 < bcnx> no articles
23:48 < bcnx> nothing else
23:48 <+perlDreamer> weird
23:48 < bcnx> the last thing I did was experimenting with uploading files
23:48 < bcnx> in other pages
23:48 < bcnx> that didn't workj before and someone here suggeszted upgrading to perl 5.8
23:49 < bcnx> so I did
23:49 < bcnx> and things still worked
23:49 < bcnx> after a while at least
23:49 < bcnx> three days later: nothing
23:49 <+perlDreamer> No changes to settings or webgui.conf file?
23:50 < bcnx> webgui.conf definitely not
23:50 < bcnx> settings ...
23:50 < bcnx> let me think
23:50 < bcnx> not that I'm aware of
23:50 < bcnx> the funny thing is that testEnvironment.pl works flawlessly
23:51 <+perlDreamer> testE.pl only checks for modules and other setup type things.
23:51 <+perlDreamer> do you have backups so that you could reset the site to a time when it worked?
23:52 < bcnx> yes, I tried that, I even tried  en "empty" db, but no good
23:52 < bcnx> can try that again now if you wnat
23:52 <+perlDreamer> what is an empty db?
23:53 < bcnx> I mean the original Webgui database
23:54 <+perlDreamer> so basically you did:
23:54 <+perlDreamer> mysql -e "drop myDatabase; create database myDatabase"
23:54 < bcnx> correct
23:54 < bcnx> and then redirect create.sql
23:54 <+perlDreamer> did you clean out the uploads directory and the caches?
23:54 < bcnx> no
23:54 < bcnx> could that be an issue?
23:54 < bcnx> I rm -rf /tmp/WebGUICache though
23:55 <+perlDreamer> that should cover it
23:55 <+perlDreamer> what's in your webgui.conf file?
23:55 < bcnx> shall I rm -rf "uploads" too?
23:55 <+perlDreamer> I would
23:55 < bcnx> ok, one sec
23:56 < bcnx> mmm, I got a "-3" folder in uploads
23:57 < bcnx> can't remove that one
23:57 <+perlDreamer> is it empty now?
23:57 < bcnx> I can't cd into it
23:57 < bcnx> couild that be the culprit?
23:57 <+perlDreamer> no
23:57 < bcnx> illegal dir name?
23:58 < bcnx> there some other dirs in it, but no file
23:58 <+perlDreamer> it's not illegal, just painful to use from the command line
23:58 < bcnx> he considers "-3" as an option
23:58 < bcnx> no way to delete it
23:58 <+perlDreamer> try perl -e 'unlink q!-3!;'
23:59 <+crythias> rm -fr \-3
23:59 < bcnx> of course, the escape thing
23:59 < bcnx> did it
23:59 < bcnx> uploads empty now
23:59 < bcnx> same thing
23:59 <+perlDreamer> what's in your webgui.conf file?
--- Day changed Wed Apr 05 2006
00:00 <+crythias> heh
00:00 <+crythias> HEE
00:00 < bcnx> paste it here entirely?
00:00 <+crythias> can't load file (-3)
00:00 <+perlDreamer> you can use crythias's favorite paste utility, but do remember to remove the username/password
00:00 <+crythias> http://www.rafb.net/paste
00:00 < bcnx> ok, let me see
00:00 < bcnx> (thx guys, by the way)
00:00 <+crythias> :)
00:01 -!- Baylink [n=jra@rrcs-71-40-184-110.se.biz.rr.com] has quit ["User disconnected"]
00:01 <+perlDreamer> between crythias's awesume admin-fu and my perl hackery, we should be able to get you up and going.
00:02 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
00:02 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ
00:02 < bcnx> nice
00:02 <+perlDreamer> howdy, rizen
00:02 <+crythias> bcnx:
00:02 <+perlDreamer> how hackest thou, today?
00:02 < bcnx> but I'm afraid I just messed something up here, damn stuck mouse button
00:02 <@rizen> howdy
00:03 -!- pbmdawg [n=SysAdmin@adsl-68-91-94-47.dsl.ksc2mo.swbell.net] has joined #webgui
00:03 -!- mode/#webgui [+o pbmdawg] by ChanServ
00:03 < bcnx> less underlines stuff
00:03 < bcnx> to "more" then :-)
00:03 < bcnx> one minute
00:03 -!- pbmdawg changed the topic of #WebGUI to: wG 7.0 caching system
00:03 <+crythias> import create.sql to a new db and point to that in webgui.conf
00:03 <@rizen> i'm waiting for a couple people to get on, then i need to gather feedback
00:04 -!- Steve [n=chatzill@24-183-53-58.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #webgui
00:05 < bcnx> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/ehq6qA45.html
00:05 < WRE> <bcnx> http://tinyurl.com/qu5tz
00:05 < bcnx> ok, will do that crythias
00:05 -!- Steve is now known as Meatbop
00:06 <+perlDreamer> bcnx: what's your WebGUI root directory?
00:06 <+crythias> and did you change it in preload.perl?
00:06 <+perlDreamer> exactly!
00:06  * perlDreamer hands crythias a psychic antenna
00:07 -!- pbmdawg is now known as psychicAnt
00:07 -!- Jamie [n=chatzill@mdsnwikwbas08-pool23-a113.mdsnwikw.tds.net] has joined #webgui
00:07  * crythias adds the psychic antenna to his tinfoil hat.
00:07 <+perlDreamer> and why didn't you just use /data?
00:08 < bcnx> because I'm using a HA-cluster
00:08 <@rizen> ok boys and girls, i need to have a quick chat and see what feedback everyone has for me
00:08 < bcnx> and the shared storage is on /work
00:08 <+perlDreamer> symlink it to /data?
00:08 <@rizen> this is re: 7.0 and page caching
00:08 < bcnx> crythias, an alternative db does not help
00:08 <@rizen> in the past we had page level caching, that only cached the content
00:09 <@rizen> this was problematic because it didn't cache the headers
00:09 <+perlDreamer> bcnx: make a paste of your vhost setup for WebGUI
00:09 <@rizen> and therefore if the header was not returning content type of text/html we'd have a problem
00:09 < bcnx> crythias, can't send private messages it seems
00:09 < bcnx> ICQ?
00:09 <@psychicAnt> bcnx: you have to register with freenode
00:10 <+crythias> rizen: understood
00:10 <@rizen> also, caching of Page Layouts is a problem because individual assets under page layouts can change faster than the layout's cache timeout
00:10 <@rizen> len and i considered the benefits of caching the entire page including headers
00:10 <@rizen> we thought that might be a good idea, but that doesn't solve the page layout problem
00:10 <@rizen> AND more importantly
00:10 <@rizen> that creates a new problem
00:11 <@rizen> in that the HTTP headers may include cookie information
00:11 <@rizen> which means that users might get each other's sessions
00:11 <+crythias> bad
00:11 <@rizen> yup, very bad
00:11 <@rizen> so full page caching is now out the window
00:11 <@rizen> also in 7.0 one more thing complicates full page caching
00:11 <@rizen> and that is the concept of content chunking
00:11 <@rizen> content chunking works like this
00:11 <@rizen> we send back the HTML header
00:12 <@rizen> then each asset seperately
00:12 <@rizen> then the HTML footer
00:12 <@rizen> HTML header and footer being split out of the style template
00:12 <@rizen> [this enables us to render pages more quickly
00:12 <@rizen> now, even without caching, pages are rendering much faster than they were under 6.8
00:13 <@rizen> however, i'd still like to enable caching of content because it reduces server load
00:13 <@rizen> but i think we're going to need to do it on a per asset basis
00:13 <@rizen> certain kinds of assets should probably never cache
00:13 <@rizen> for example: polls and surveys
00:13 <@rizen> however, other kinds, articles, images, collaboration system posts
00:13 <@rizen> etc
00:13 <@rizen> probably can cache
00:14 <@rizen> now after all that background information
00:14 <@rizen> i pose the question to you guys: what do you think we should cache or shouldn't cache?
00:14 <@rizen> how should caching work in your mind?
00:14 <+crythias> what you said: polls, surveys, sqlreports
00:14 <+crythias> wsclients
00:14 <@rizen> and do you have any problems from the prior caching mechanisms that we need to make sure we account for?
00:15 <+perlDreamer> in/out board should be a no-cache
00:16 <+crythias> actually would suggest [x] Cache this.
00:16 <@rizen> perhaps i should start with a simple question. Does everyone agree that full page caching needs to go away?
00:16 <+crythias> Yes
00:17 <+perlDreamer> yes
00:17 <@rizen> have i lost everyone else?
00:17 <+crythias> because there's no easy way to enforce static-ish content only on a page
00:17 <@psychicAnt> we'll need to differentiate between www_ methods and other methods, such as view()
00:18 <@psychicAnt> b/c the output (content, <head>block stuff) of view() would need to be cached for when a wobject is viewed in its parent Layout
00:18 < Jamie> yes full page needs to go away
00:18 < Meatbop> Agreed
00:19 <@rizen> ok, since the people responding seem to agree with that
00:19 <@rizen> do we also then agree that it should be caching at the asset level?
00:19 <+perlDreamer> how does that work for Asset containers?
00:20 <@rizen> asset containers are just assets
00:20 <@rizen> we need to decide whether the asset needs to cache or not
00:20 <@rizen> anything can be a container
00:20 <@rizen> a poll for instance
00:20 <+crythias> even a page layout?
00:20 <@rizen> or an article, can theoretically be a container
00:20 <@rizen> so whether it is a container or not can't matter
00:21 <@rizen> in the case of a layout, we'll have to say that no, it shouldnt' cache
00:21 <+perlDreamer> ah, okay then
00:21 <@rizen> because it will show any assets under it
00:21 <+perlDreamer> with that caveat, I agree about asset-level caching
00:21 <@rizen> and those things may not be static
00:21 <@rizen> ok...and i think even further than asset level caching
00:21 <@rizen> we may want to decide to cache only on specific methods iwthin an asset
00:22 <@rizen> so basically, the asset developer decides whether there is caching or not
00:22 <@rizen> completely through the asset
00:22 <@psychicAnt> if I may throw this out there - could we even consider the possibility of caching certain portions of certain templates...?
00:22 <@rizen> we don't include caching on wobjects
00:22 <@rizen> or whatever
00:22 <@rizen> it's a per asset basis
00:22 <@rizen> completely up to the developer
00:23 <@rizen> psychicAnt: I'm listening, what do you have in mind?
00:24 <@rizen> meanwhile, let's go down the list of assets
00:24 <@psychicAnt> if one could mark certain regions of templates cache-able, an intelligent template-output cacher could cache the output of that template processing, and only process the portions of that template that aren't marked as cachable
00:24 <@rizen> i understand that
00:25 <@psychicAnt> since generally it's not the template variable generation that's slow; it's the template processing
00:25 <@rizen> but what i don't understand
00:25 <@rizen> is how would we go about caching only parts of them
00:25 <@rizen> in a generic way
00:25 <+perlDreamer> psychicAnt: If we go with rizen's asset level caching proposal, that could be done with a particular Template asset.
00:25 <@rizen> that seems like it would have to be on a per asset basis
00:25 <+perlDreamer> since each asset decides what it caches
00:25 < bcnx> Perldreamer, I'm off. thx for your assistance. tomorrow is another day.
00:25 <+perlDreamer> bcnx: good luck
00:25 -!- bcnx [n=root@d54C0EC13.access.telenet.be] has left #webgui []
00:25 <@rizen> Event: yes/no, problems?
00:26 -!- psychicAnt is now known as pbmdawg
00:26 <+crythias> cache event
00:26 <+perlDreamer> event, yes, events calendar: problems
00:26 <@rizen> what problems on events calendar?
00:27 <@rizen> File: yes/no, problems?
00:27 <+perlDreamer> if the events calendar is set to display "NOW", then you could cache output past the date when an event would be on the calendar
00:27 <@pbmdawg> timezone problems
00:27 <+crythias> File: cache
00:27 <+crythias> although.. wait. that's silly
00:27 <@rizen> file does have a template gerald
00:27 <@pbmdawg> rizen: are we talking about the view() methods of each of these assets?
00:28 <@pbmdawg> or all the methods?
00:28 <@rizen> for right now e're probably just talking about view methods
00:28 <+crythias> the template for file is listing the file?
00:28 <@rizen> but eventually we'll need to make a judgement on other methods
00:28 <@pbmdawg> crythias: yes.  in a Folder or Layout.
00:28 <@rizen> the template for the file show the icon
00:28 <@rizen> the file name
00:28 <@rizen> and a link to the file
00:28 <+crythias> cache
00:29 <@rizen> going back to the time zone thingy
00:29 <@rizen> on events
00:29 <@rizen> we'll still have to cache on a per user basis
00:29 <@rizen> or are you saying it's not worth caching
00:29 <@rizen> cuz we have to do it on a per user basis?
00:30 <@pbmdawg> imho things very few things at all should be cached on a per user basis, except for Visitor.
00:30 <+crythias> why per user? why not per group?
00:30 <@pbmdawg> can't cache per group b/c of groupsOfGroups
00:30 <+crythias> how does that matter?
00:30 <@rizen> ok, so you're saying only cache for visitor?
00:30 <@rizen> and everything else renders live?
00:31 <@rizen> what does everyone else think of that?
00:31 <@pbmdawg> yeah.  for large sites, you don't want 10,000 versions of things
00:31 <@pbmdawg> in the cache
00:31 <+crythias> ++pbmdawg
00:31 <@rizen> meatbop, vrby, perlDreamer?
00:32 <+perlDreamer> I think you should cache events, and not cache the calendar
00:32 <@pbmdawg> but then if you could mark certain methods of each asset class (or certain sections of each asset class' template(s)) as cache-able, you could get really fancy and fine-tuned)
00:32 <@pbmdawg> oh, I was talking about everything, not just Event
00:33 <@pbmdawg> can't cache Events under the current implementation, because epochToHuman is TZ/user dependent
00:33 <@rizen> of the 11 people logged in, are only 3 of us paying attention?
00:33 < Meatbop> I do like the idea of caching for visitors only, but would that be taxing for those that use the system primarily as an intranet?
00:33 <@rizen> yes
00:33 <@rizen> however
00:33 <@rizen> the question is, how often will people visit the same object
00:34 <@rizen> within the period of the cache timeout
00:34 <@rizen> so for instance, if i have a cached article
00:34 <@rizen> how many times will you view that article before your cache times out
00:34 <@rizen> i suspect if we have it only caching for 10 minutes
00:34 <@rizen> once
00:35 <@rizen> but if we can do our caching carefully
00:35 <@rizen> and cache things for hours or even days
00:35 <+crythias> heh. What if the cache is deleted upon edit/save.
00:35 <@pbmdawg> maybe we should think about two dimensions here, per-user and per-time.  If we could mark template sections or asset class methods as cache-able in each of those axes, we could get really specific for both caching aspects.
00:35 <@rizen> then maybe it makes sense to cache for regular users
00:35 <@rizen> gerald: cache is already deleted upon save
00:35 <@rizen> it just doesn't feel like that
00:35 <@rizen> because of layout caching
00:36 <+perlDreamer> I don't think you can cache that long on things that expire with time, like Events
00:36 <+crythias> fine then cache an event until it expires.
00:36 <@rizen> matt: forget about caching specfic parts of templates..i'm not saying we're not doing it
00:36 <@rizen> but it's not relevant to this conversation
00:36 <@rizen> because it will have to be done on a per asset basis
00:37 <@rizen> and we're talking about more general things right now
00:37 <@pbmdawg> k
00:37 <@rizen> gerald: i think that you're right about events
00:37 <@rizen> cache until the event expires or is edited
00:37 <@rizen> so in that case, event's don't have a seperate cache settings
00:37 <@rizen> however, i think events should also only be cached for visitors
00:38 <+crythias> doesn't matter, really, does it?
00:38 <@rizen> because it's not likely that individual users will view an event more than once
00:38 <@rizen> yes, because of time zones
00:38 <@rizen> if i'm in central and you're in eastern
00:38 <@rizen> the times show differently for us
00:38 <+crythias> store in UTC and adjust?
00:38 <@rizen> can't adjust if it's cached
00:39 <+crythias> math on the fly?
00:39 <@rizen> it's already stored in utc
00:39 <@rizen> are you listening to what you're saying
00:39 <@rizen> you can't both cache it and then adjust it
00:39 <@rizen> what's the point of caching then
00:39 <@pbmdawg> crythias: this would work if the conversion were done client side ;)
00:39 <@pbmdawg> epochs passed to the browser; browser localizes them
00:39 <@rizen> but that requires that the user have javascript
00:39 <@rizen> and that also still requires
00:40 <@rizen> that we send along the user's time zone
00:40 <@pbmdawg> no; js can get that from the browser
00:40 <+crythias> so we can't cache visitor
00:40 <@pbmdawg> (I'm not advocating passing epochs)
00:40 <@rizen> ok, but then we wouldn't be following their preferences in their profile
00:40 <@rizen> yes, we can cache visitor, because all visitors use the same profile
00:40 <+crythias> certainly we can't cache visitor for until event expires.
00:40 <@rizen> we don't adjust time zones for visitor
00:40 <@pbmdawg> (nor am I advocating that all events calendars' events should be time-localized.
00:40 <@pbmdawg> )
00:41 <@pbmdawg> I think that should be an optional setting
00:41 <@pbmdawg> but that's another issue.
00:41 <@rizen> ok, we're getting off on a tangent here
00:41 <@rizen> i wanted to keep this conversation short
00:41 <+perlDreamer> so we agree that timezones on events and calendars are screwed up and that may affect caching
00:41 <@pbmdawg> move on to Post
00:41 <+crythias> timezones
00:41 <@rizen> post/thread is the big dog
00:42 <@rizen> it's the hardest thing that webgui does
00:42 <@pbmdawg> except there's not really a view method of post
00:42 <@rizen> because the templates are so damn complex
00:42 <@rizen> therefore, i think we need to cache
00:42 <@pbmdawg> timestamps are again an issue.
00:42 <@rizen> and not only that, i believe we need to cache on a per user basis
00:42 <@pbmdawg> scratch my last msg
00:43 <@rizen> i know that there are many threads that people view multiple times between anything changing about them
00:43 <+crythias> 10,000 posts and 10,000 users.
00:43 <+perlDreamer> what about caching Posts and assembling threads on a per-user basis?
00:43 <+perlDreamer> render the post, but only display it if the user can see it?
00:44 <+perlDreamer> it's a big change from the way it's done now, though
00:44 <@rizen> we can't really cache posts, because the posts are embedded in the thread template
00:44 <@rizen> unless we break the thread template apart
00:44 <+perlDreamer> right.
00:44 <+perlDreamer> that's why I said it would be really different from how it's done now
00:44 <@pbmdawg> here's (yet) another thought.  what about caching on a template variable level also......? :-P  I know, I'll shut up.
00:45 <+perlDreamer> pmbdawg: wouldn't work for loops, and loops are probably the most expensive part
00:45 <@pbmdawg> I mean in perl
00:45 <+perlDreamer> ooh
00:45 <@pbmdawg> serialized data structures or something.
00:45 <@rizen> that's not a bad idea
00:46 <@rizen> i think that's probably better than breaking out the posts and threads
00:46 <@pbmdawg> each template variable could be marked as cacheable or not..?
00:46 <@rizen> well i don't know about that
00:46 <+perlDreamer> how do you mark a perl variable?
00:46 <@pbmdawg> then an intelligent template variable generator could detect that and create them as appropriate
00:46 <@pbmdawg> add a hashref layer, and another key.
00:47 <+crythias> after all this, is SQL still that much of a performance loser over cache?
00:47 <@rizen> jamie, meatbop, think about how users use cs's
00:47 <@rizen> do you see any problems with caching threads?
00:47 <@rizen> or parts of threads?
00:47 < Jamie> Off hand no
00:47 <@pbmdawg> well, one of the post tmpl_var is isRead
00:47 <@rizen> meatbop, would it affect how you design CS thread templates?
00:48 <@pbmdawg> so that would need to be changed after the first view
00:48 < Jamie> are you still talking about caching globally or individual?
00:49 <@rizen> are we saying then that we can't cache threads because of "isRead" and "views" etc
00:49 <@rizen> change from view to view?
00:49 <@rizen> we'd be caching each thread for each user
00:49 <@rizen> jamie, that was to you
00:50 < Meatbop> this might be the same thing as the events, but the cache timeout would reset on edit of a post?
00:52 <@pbmdawg> that's already done for all assets.
00:52 < Meatbop> k
00:52 <@pbmdawg> editing/adding a post to a thread uncaches the thread globally
00:53 < xdanger> hey, any comments on my bugs ?
00:53 <@pbmdawg> xdanger: wait a while to talk about that please
00:53 < xdanger> ok
00:55 <@pbmdawg> rizen: no, I wasn't saying we can't cache that stuff; I'm trying to make the point that perhaps we need a very flexible intelligent caching system.
00:55 <@rizen> ok
00:55 <@rizen> so i just made a change on plainblack.com
00:55 <@rizen> i think the templates aren't causing the big problem on posts
00:55 <@rizen> and why they are slow
00:56 <@rizen> check out the bottom of any thread on plainblack.com
00:56  * pbmdawg joins the rest of the room in DDOS'ing plainblack.com
00:56 <+crythias> var time ... ouch
00:56 <@rizen> i always thought it was template time
00:56 <@rizen> but holy crap
00:57 <@pbmdawg> cool
00:57 <@pbmdawg> so did I
00:57 <+perlDreamer> template variable cacher ahoy
00:57 <+perlDreamer> wiat
00:57 <+perlDreamer> wait
00:57 <+perlDreamer> does Var time include Asset creation, etc?
00:57 <@rizen> no
00:57 <@rizen> well post asset creation
00:58 <@rizen> but not the thread itself
00:58 <+perlDreamer> N post asset creations
00:58 <@rizen> n post asset creation
00:58 <@rizen> pagination
00:58 <@rizen> etc
00:58 <@pbmdawg> rizen: we should enable the performanceProfiler on plainblack.com sometime temporarily
00:58 <+perlDreamer> some night
00:59 <@rizen> ok...so this is making me thing
00:59 <@rizen> think
00:59 <@rizen> we shouldn't cache posts/threads
00:59 <@rizen> but instead, solve our performance problems in thread variable creation
00:59 <+perlDreamer> but we don't know if it's just the thread variables.
00:59 <+perlDreamer> it might be in nested asset creation
00:59 <+perlDreamer> or something else
01:00 <@pbmdawg> rizen: put a timer wrapper around my %replyVars = %{$reply->getTemplateVars};
01:00 <@rizen> ultimately it is thread variables
01:00 <@rizen> cuz no matter what
01:00 <@rizen> we need to create those assets
01:00 <@rizen> so they are PART of variable creation
01:00 <@pbmdawg> to see if it's each reply, or if it's the thread itself
01:00 <+perlDreamer> yes
01:01 <+perlDreamer> but _if_ (and we don't know yet) it was Asset creation, then the entire site would benefit from the speed up
01:01 <+perlDreamer> rather than only view methods
01:01 <+perlDreamer> let's track down the _real_ time sink and kill it
01:01 <+perlDreamer> so we only have to do this once
01:01 <@rizen> agreed
01:01 <@rizen> all i'm saying is that templates aren't the culprit
01:02 <+perlDreamer> okay, sorry if I went over the top there
01:02 <@rizen> ok i think ing generally
01:02 <@rizen> in general
01:02 <@pbmdawg> my opinion is that we need the performance profiler
01:02 <@pbmdawg> for this specific question
01:02 <@rizen> i've got what i've needed out of this conversation
01:02 <@rizen> so let me state this one more time
01:02 <@rizen> then all of you please comment
01:03 <@rizen> we're going to:
01:03 <@rizen> a) do caching (or not) on a per asset (and ultimately per method) basis
01:03 <@rizen> b) cache is always deleted on edit
01:03 <@rizen> c) caching is generally not done for regular users, only visitors
01:04 <@rizen> d) remove the global cache settings that are attached to all assets right now
01:04 <@rizen> are all those generally true?
01:04 <@rizen> and does anyone have a problem with that?
01:05 <@pbmdawg> thinking about d)
01:05 <+perlDreamer> e) We decide on what to cache based on some profiling of the PB site?
01:05 <@rizen> fair enough
01:05 <@rizen> on e
01:06 <+perlDreamer> in that case I'm cool
01:06 <+perlDreamer> with a-e
01:06 < Jamie> I think it sounds good
01:06 <@rizen> anybody have any comments, questions, or scathing rebuttle?
01:06 <@pbmdawg> on c)
01:06 < Meatbop> Quick question, would the cache setting cascade down to child elements?  Whether or not they should cache?
01:07 <@rizen> meatbop: could you elaborate?
01:07 < Meatbop> So for example, you create a folder and set it so that it doesn't cache, and all child elements created would also inherit that setting?  None of them would cache unless the user changed their setting?
01:08 <@rizen> well since caching is no longer a global setting, we wouldn't be able to do that
01:08 <@pbmdawg> I think the asset developer should be given the ability to explain to the caching system which things the asset wants cacheable by any user or group of users, including Visitor
01:08 <@rizen> you won't be able to inherit cache timeouts
01:08 <@rizen> nor would you be able to recursively set them via editBranch
01:08 < Meatbop> hmm
01:09 <@pbmdawg> on c), I think the asset developer should be given the ability to explain to the caching system which things the asset wants cacheable by any user or group of users, including Visitor
01:09 -!- Jamie_ [n=chatzill@mdsnwikwbas08-pool23-a113.mdsnwikw.tds.net] has joined #webgui
01:09 <@rizen> matt: i have no idea what you're saying
01:10 <@rizen> anybody else have comments?
01:10 <@pbmdawg> was c) a statement about API policy, or a statement about what would be done with each of the core assets
01:11 <@rizen> c is decided by the developer, but as a general rule on core assets
01:11 <@pbmdawg> k; I like a-e
01:11 <@rizen> we won't cache stuff for non visitors, unless we see a benefit
01:11 <@rizen> anybody else?
01:11 <@rizen> otherwise i'm calling this done
01:11 < Meatbop> i also like the ideas
01:12 <@rizen> i think eliminating page caching might slow us down just a bit, but ultimately it will have more of a "it just works" feel to users
01:12 <@rizen> cuz they are often confused by cache right now
01:12 <@rizen> and rightly so
01:13 <@rizen> and i think that the content chunking stuff, should more than compensate for whatever slowdown they experience
01:14 <@rizen> oh...one more thing
01:14 <@rizen> i think that purely static elements such as articles
01:14 <@rizen> should be cached globally for both visitors and users
01:14 <@rizen> so one cache file, serves both types
01:14 <@rizen> what say you?
01:14 <@pbmdawg> (but cached via www_view in Article.pm )?
01:14 <+crythias> until people put dynamic content in an article.
01:14 <@pbmdawg> I mean view()
01:14 <+crythias> ^SQL(stuff);
01:14 <@rizen> that will just be a caveat of article
01:15 <@rizen> in those cases, they should use snippet
01:15 <@pbmdawg> won't be good for templates.
01:15 <+crythias> ^AssetProxy("MySQLReport");
01:15 <@rizen> or turn the cache all the way off for that one asset
01:15 <@rizen> reasonable?
01:15 <@pbmdawg> for that asset class or indiv. articles?
01:15 <@rizen> individual articles
01:15 <@pbmdawg> how would you do that
01:16 <@rizen> because for things that cache
01:16 <@rizen> there will be a cache timeout setting
01:16 <@rizen> just like there is now
01:16 <@pbmdawg> oh.  okay.  I think.
01:16 <@rizen> are we all good?
01:16 <@rizen> going once
01:16 <+crythias> sure
01:16 <@rizen> going twice
01:16 <@rizen> sold
01:16 <+crythias> buh bye (from me to all)
01:16 <@rizen> k
01:16 <@rizen> thanks everyone
01:17 < chansen> perhaps a MRU cache?
01:17 <@rizen> bye
01:17 < Meatbop> cya
01:17 <@rizen> mru?
01:17 < chansen> Most Recently Used algorithm
01:17 <@rizen> and why didn't you pipe up half an hour ago
01:17 <@rizen> that's already there
01:17  * crythias has a MRU cache and empties it periodically. 
01:17 <@rizen> the caching system does that
01:17 < chansen> ok
01:17 <@rizen> ok..done
01:17 <@rizen> later
01:17 <@rizen> bye
01:17 < chansen> cya
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01:18 < chansen> If there already is a MRU cache, why decide on what should be cached?
01:19 <+crythias> it's not really mru. except that it's cacheing stuff that's expired but hit
01:20 <+crythias> that is, it resets cache timeout.
01:20 <+crythias> so MRY
01:20 < chansen> ok, that explains the earlier discussion
01:20 <+crythias> MRU
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01:21 <+crythias> gtg ttyl
01:21 < chansen> cya
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18:26 < bcnx> hi Crythias
18:26 < bcnx> feel like taking another shot at my problem?
18:26 < bcnx> or is it a bad time ...
18:27 <+crythias> sure
18:27 <+MrHairgrease> maybe I can help out?
18:27 < bcnx> you're always welcome to! :-)
18:27 <+MrHairgrease> what's the problem
18:27 <+crythias> http://www.bitsntricks.com/
18:27 <+MrHairgrease> yeah that seems broken =)
18:27 < bcnx> and: Can't call method "prepare" on an undefined value at /work/data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm
18:27 <+MrHairgrease> what's causing it?
18:27 < bcnx> in error log
18:28 < bcnx> testEnvironment.pl works OK
18:28 <+crythias> just ... SELinux, if available, is disabled, right?
18:28 <+MrHairgrease> seems like your wg can't connect to your db
18:28 < bcnx> it does following testEnvironment.pl
18:28 <+MrHairgrease> hmm, weird
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18:28 <+MrHairgrease> that error's in your apache error log?
18:28 <+crythias> any possibility that there might be two DBI/DBDmysql's?
18:29 <+MrHairgrease> or in webgui.log?
18:29 < bcnx> MrHairgrease: yes
18:29 < bcnx> Cryth: no
18:29 <+MrHairgrease> pls wait
18:29 <+MrHairgrease> trying to reproduce
18:29 < bcnx> webgui.log is completely empty
18:30 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
18:30 <+MrHairgrease> b/c it can't do any sql queries
18:30 <+MrHairgrease> and therfore won't even com to logging
18:30 < bcnx> makes sense then
18:30 < bcnx> i c
18:30 < bcnx> I upgraded to Perl 5.8.7 some days ago
18:30 < bcnx> (which broke other stuff by the way)
18:30 <+crythias> yes
18:30 < bcnx> but it worked fine for a couple of days
18:31 <+crythias> remove and recompile dbd-mysql
18:31 <+MrHairgrease> it did work?
18:31 < bcnx> yes
18:31 <+MrHairgrease> but now it doesn't anymore?
18:31 < bcnx> crythias: you mean the Perl module?
18:31 <+MrHairgrease> and you did not change a thing?
18:31 < bcnx> Mr: correct
18:31 <+crythias> bcnx: yes
18:31 < bcnx> Mr: not to my recollection
18:31 < bcnx> but you know how it goed
18:31 < bcnx> goes
18:31 <+MrHairgrease> yeah =)
18:32 < bcnx> crythias: I installed the module with cpan
18:32 < bcnx> I can uninstall und reinstall it
18:32 <+crythias> after upgrade to 587?
18:32 < bcnx> yes
18:32 < bcnx> errr
18:32 < bcnx> I think the upgrade took care of the modules
18:32 <+crythias> not likely
18:32 < bcnx> I think also that one
18:32 < bcnx> I'll quickly do it
18:34 <+crythias> also mod_perl2 if you've changed perl after install
18:34 <+crythias> in fact ... yeah. that makes a lot of sense.
18:34 < bcnx> I installed mod_perl2 manually afterwards
18:34 <+crythias> ok
18:35 < bcnx> the DBI::DBD module, right?
18:36 <+crythias> DBD::mysql50-3.x
18:36 < bcnx> I got DBD::mysql
18:36 < bcnx> version 3.0002
18:37 < bcnx> the only available on CPAN
18:37 <+crythias> fresh install?
18:37 < bcnx> I'll remove it  now, then I suppose it's fresh
18:37 <+MrHairgrease> bcnx
18:37 < bcnx> yez
18:37 <+MrHairgrease> which version are you on?
18:37 < bcnx> 6.8.7
18:37 <+MrHairgrease> ok
18:38 <+MrHairgrease> i'll try with that one
18:38 < bcnx> reinstalling DBD::mysql no
18:38 < bcnx> w
18:38 < bcnx> Module 'DBD::mysql' installed successfully
18:39 <+crythias> restart apache
18:39 < bcnx> did that
18:39 <+crythias> httpd-error.log?
18:39 < bcnx> let me reinstall mod_perl2
18:39 < bcnx> can't do taht with cpan, because it installs mod_perl, not mod_perl2
18:39 < bcnx> so need to do that manually
18:40 <+crythias> apache's old, too
18:40 <+crythias> not that that matters for this case.
18:47 <+MrHairgrease> [Wed Apr 05 17:45:07 2006] [error] [client 145.94.32.124] Can't call method "prepare" on an undefined value at /zut/domains/cvs_webgui_nl/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm line 473.\n
18:47 <+MrHairgrease> reproduction!
18:47 <+MrHairgrease> bcnx
18:47 < bcnx> aha!
18:47 < bcnx> how?
18:47 <+MrHairgrease> wrong db user
18:47 <+MrHairgrease> question
18:47 < bcnx> I'm sure that's not the case
18:48 < bcnx> I created a second db
18:48 <+MrHairgrease> do you have the wg site inside a virtual host?
18:48 < bcnx> changed the conf
18:48 < bcnx> no
18:48 <+MrHairgrease> so you have only one error log from apache?
18:48 < bcnx> it's "virtually" driving me crazy, but that's it  ;-)
18:48 < bcnx> oops
18:48 <+MrHairgrease> what's it?
18:48 < bcnx> I thought you meant virtual machines like vmware
18:48 < bcnx> i'm sorry
18:48 <+MrHairgrease> nono
18:49 < bcnx> yes, I do have virtual hosts
18:49 <+MrHairgrease> ah
18:49 < bcnx> wait a sec
18:49 <+MrHairgrease> then you also have to error logs
18:49 < bcnx> I get something funny now
18:49 <+MrHairgrease> look in the error log of the base apache
18:49 < bcnx> I was reinstalling libapreq2
18:49 < bcnx> I need that for mod_perl2
18:49 < bcnx> It worked before, but now it says:
18:50 < bcnx> configure: error: Bad apache2 binary (/)
18:50 <+MrHairgrease> that's not good
18:50 < bcnx> while the parameters to configure are correct
18:50 < bcnx> it seems that the bin is broken
18:50 < bcnx> let me quickly launch it
18:50 < bcnx> mmm
18:51 < bcnx> I can launch it: apxs2
18:51 <+MrHairgrease> you would say that if the bin's broken it would segfault or something in stead of returning an error
18:51 <+MrHairgrease> please look in the other apache log
18:51 < bcnx> ./configure: line 1: apxs: command not found
18:51 < bcnx> ./configure: line 1: apxs: command not found
18:51 < bcnx> ./configure: line 1: apxs: command not found
18:51 < bcnx> ./configure: line 1: apxs: command not found
18:51 < bcnx> ./configure: line 1: apxs: command not found
18:51 < bcnx> build/version_check.pl failed: no version_string found in '' for 'apache2'.
18:51 < bcnx> configure: error: Bad apache2 binary (/)
18:52 < bcnx> ok
18:52 <+MrHairgrease> mine says
18:52 <+MrHairgrease> DBI connect('cvs_webgui_nl','cvs_webgui_n',...) failed: Access denied for user 'cvs_webgui_n'@'localhost' (using password: YES) at /zut/domains/cvs_webgui_nl/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Session.pm line 297
18:52 <+MrHairgrease> which is actually the real error in my case
18:52 <+MrHairgrease> the other error is just a symptom
18:53 < bcnx> I have a bunvj of other errors no, I think because of the fact that I uninstalled mod_perl2
18:53 < bcnx> need to reinstall that first
18:53 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
18:53 <+MrHairgrease> compiling apache sucks big time
18:54 <+crythias> .49 <.55
18:54 < bcnx> I use the rpms
18:54 <+MrHairgrease> ah
18:54 < bcnx> I shy away fro mcompiling stuff
18:54 <+MrHairgrease> heh
18:54 < bcnx> I installed Perl without the RPMs
18:55 < bcnx> and today this companyh didn't get mail for 6 hours
18:55 < bcnx> Net::Server broke Amavais
18:55 < bcnx> Amavis
18:55 <+MrHairgrease> ouch
18:55 < bcnx> yep
18:55 < bcnx> took me a long time to figure that one out
18:55 < bcnx> open source is cool and all
18:55 <+MrHairgrease> you can have different perls next to eachother on one system
18:55 < bcnx> but you can get heaps of trouble
18:55 <+MrHairgrease> so can closed source
18:56 < bcnx> I know, but I don't know how to point webgui to another version of perl
18:56 <+MrHairgrease> at procolix we have dozens of perls next to eachother on one system
18:56 < bcnx> with index.pl you could simply point to another perl bin
18:56 <+MrHairgrease> works like a charm
18:56 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
18:56 < bcnx> are you from procolix? cool!
18:56 <+MrHairgrease> I think so =)
18:56 < bcnx> how do you point to another perl then?
18:57 < bcnx> kunnen we i nhet nederlands verder gaan ;-)
18:57 <+MrHairgrease> you can only point wg to another version by recompiling mod_perl
18:57 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
18:57 <+MrHairgrease> but I don't think all those yankees would like that
18:57 < bcnx> but every system using mod_perl will be using the alternative perl then
18:57 <+MrHairgrease> mod_perl is actually a bunch of perl modules
18:57 <+MrHairgrease> no
18:58 <+MrHairgrease> b/c we have a lot of diffrent mod_perls too =)
18:58 < bcnx> huh
18:58 <+MrHairgrease> the idea is that if we want to migrate one site to another box
18:58 <+MrHairgrease> we only have to copy the directory
18:58 <+MrHairgrease> also it protects you from bombing other sites on your system
18:59 < bcnx> I see
18:59 <+MrHairgrease> so if I need the newest apche/modperl/whatever
18:59 < bcnx> so you install mod_perl in different folders and change httpd.conf
18:59 <+MrHairgrease> I'll install it in the directory that contains cvs.webgui.nl
18:59 <+MrHairgrease> no
19:00 <+MrHairgrease> we compile everything (apache/modperl/perl) from scratch
19:00 <+MrHairgrease> for each webserver we run
19:00 <+MrHairgrease> we have one server running shared hosting
19:00 <+MrHairgrease> and a bunch for bigger customers
19:00 < bcnx> so you run seperate apaches?
19:00 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
19:00 <+MrHairgrease> a lot
19:01 < bcnx> how do you deal then with the ports?
19:01 <+MrHairgrease> you only need enough ip's =)
19:01 < bcnx> ok
19:01 < bcnx> i c
19:01 < bcnx> that I don't have
19:01 < bcnx> just one public
19:01 <+MrHairgrease> ok
19:01 <+MrHairgrease> but you can still use a specific perl installation by compiling mod-perl
19:02 <+MrHairgrease> use the --with-perl flag in the perl Makefiel.PL
19:02 <+MrHairgrease> however
19:02 < bcnx> dang
19:02 <+MrHairgrease> running from rpms should work
19:02 < bcnx> still problems compiling libapreq2
19:02 < bcnx> what the heck is going on here
19:02 < bcnx> no, the rpms for SLES9 are too old for Perl
19:02 <+MrHairgrease> does suse not have an liapreq rmp?
19:03 <+MrHairgrease> in that case
19:03 <+MrHairgrease> you might wanna try the wre
19:03 < bcnx> it's ok now
19:03 < bcnx> was typo
19:03 < bcnx> my bad
19:03 < bcnx> I'm a certified idiot
19:03  * MrHairgrease wipes bcnx' head
19:04 <+MrHairgrease> hey, who isn't
19:04 <+MrHairgrease> I know I am
19:04 <+MrHairgrease> just don't have the diploma yet =)
19:05 < bcnx> :-)
19:05 < bcnx> almost done here
19:05 < bcnx> modperl is installing (I think)
19:05 <+MrHairgrease> cross your thumbs
19:05 < bcnx> do you have anything to do with the guys that are going to translate Webgui in Dutch?
19:06 <+MrHairgrease> you mean the wossa?
19:06 < bcnx> yes
19:06 <+MrHairgrease> Yeah sot of
19:06 <+MrHairgrease> sort*
19:06 < bcnx> ah, I've just been appraoched to help out by a guy named Arjan
19:06 <+MrHairgrease> we talked a bit yesterday on how to streamline it
19:06 <+MrHairgrease> yeah I know arjan
19:07 <+MrHairgrease> he's cool
19:07 < bcnx> don't really know him
19:07 < bcnx> but he seems nice enough
19:07 <+MrHairgrease> there are more people who want to help out in translating
19:07 <+MrHairgrease> so we figured we needed to have some webinterface or whatever to streamline their efforts
19:08 <+MrHairgrease> and keeping stuff up to date easy
19:08 < bcnx> yeah, sure, to avoid double work at least
19:09 <+MrHairgrease> so I was thinking of some simple webeditor tool that can diff between releases and allows you to correct typo's and other errors other people made
19:09 < bcnx> installing the mod_perl modules now
19:09 <+MrHairgrease> while still haviing the complete translation history for everyone to view
19:09 <+MrHairgrease> a bit like a wiki
19:09 <+MrHairgrease> But I'm sure you'll here more of it soon
19:10 <+MrHairgrease> very cool that you'd like to help translating
19:10 < bcnx> well, it's also in my own interest
19:10 < bcnx> I'd like to sell webgui based hosting
19:10 < bcnx> jsut starting out my own business
19:11 <+MrHairgrease> your planning on your own business
19:11 <+MrHairgrease> or have you started already?
19:11 < bcnx> I've started in "bijberoep" :-)
19:11 <+MrHairgrease> bijberoep
19:11 <+MrHairgrease> zoiets als het erbij doen?
19:12 < bcnx> yep
19:12 <+MrHairgrease> ah
19:12 < bcnx> post-nine to five
19:12 <+MrHairgrease> ah i see
19:12 < bcnx> I've been in the private industry for 12 years now
19:12 < bcnx> but got fed up with it
19:12 <+MrHairgrease> a five to nine job =)
19:12 <+MrHairgrease> what do you do?
19:12 < bcnx> so I switched to the public  world
19:12 < bcnx> :-D
19:12 <+MrHairgrease> programming
19:12 <+MrHairgrease> system administaritin?
19:12 < bcnx> no, network administration
19:13 < bcnx> but I know some perl and PHP
19:13 <+MrHairgrease> my php is rather bad
19:13 <+MrHairgrease> but then, I never use it so who cares...
19:13 < bcnx> mine too, but it's very easy to take up again
19:13 <+MrHairgrease> yeah. php is easy
19:13 < bcnx> I do rarely
19:13 <+MrHairgrease> perl is easy too
19:14 <+MrHairgrease> that's what I really like about perl
19:14 <+MrHairgrease> that, and cpan
19:14 < bcnx> it' not my daily routine, and since I'm a parttime idiot, it always talks me two days to get into the programming state of mind again, but it's fun
19:15 <+MrHairgrease> that's what i think
19:15 < bcnx> talks = takes
19:15 <+MrHairgrease> I'm also only a part time programmer
19:16 <+MrHairgrease> the rest of the time I pretend to study
19:16 < bcnx> :-)
19:16 < bcnx> anyhoe
19:16 < bcnx> mod_perl2 is reinstalled
19:16 < bcnx> same result :-(
19:16 <+MrHairgrease> what result
19:16 < bcnx> site down
19:16 <+MrHairgrease> cannot prepare...
19:16 <+MrHairgrease> that error?
19:17 < bcnx> I was just looking at the website: 500 error
19:17 < bcnx> let me check the log
19:17 < bcnx> one log has constantly the prepare error
19:18 < bcnx> let me check the other log files
19:19 < bcnx> nothing spectacular
19:19 < bcnx> nothing relevant
19:20 <+MrHairgrease> hmm, weird
19:20 < bcnx> wait a sex
19:20 < bcnx> sec
19:20 < bcnx> oops
19:20 <+MrHairgrease> heh
19:20 < bcnx> testEnvironment complains now
19:20 <+MrHairgrease> that was a cool typo
19:20 <+MrHairgrease> ah that's good
19:21 < bcnx> I did some testing with crythias yesterday
19:21 < bcnx> perhaps I forgot to reset things
19:21 < bcnx> the db info in the conf is still ok
19:21 < bcnx> yet it doesn't connect
19:22 < bcnx> let me try to do a mysqldump
19:22 <+MrHairgrease> did you use dsn=DBI:mysql:myUserName?
19:22 <+MrHairgrease> myUserName = myDBName
19:22 < bcnx> the dump doesn't work
19:23 < bcnx> strange
19:23 < bcnx> let me assign privileges again
19:24 < bcnx> OK, changed them
19:24 < bcnx> mmm
19:25 < bcnx> same result
19:25 < bcnx> but testEnvironment.pl works now
19:25 < bcnx> permission to pull out my hair?
19:25 <+MrHairgrease> did you grant all privileges?
19:25 <+MrHairgrease> or just some?
19:26 < bcnx> all
19:26 < bcnx> just like in https://www.plainblack.com/installing_webgui
19:26 < WRE> <bcnx> http://tinyurl.com/rgk49
19:28 <+MrHairgrease> try this grant all privileges on www_<font size="3">example_com.* to webgui@'%.%.%.%' identfied by 'password'</font>
19:28 <+MrHairgrease> hmm
19:28 <+MrHairgrease> sry for that
19:29 <+MrHairgrease> grant all privileges on www_exeample_com.* to user@'%.%.%.%' identified by 'password
19:29 <+MrHairgrease> or maybe it should be
19:29 < bcnx> what do the % -mean?
19:29 <+MrHairgrease> grant all privileges on www_exeample_com.* to user  identified by 'password
19:29 <+MrHairgrease> % is a wildcard
19:29 <+MrHairgrease> means any number
19:30 < bcnx> i did: mysql -e "grant all privileges on www_bitsntricks_com.* to webgui@localhost identified by 'yeahright'"
19:30 <+MrHairgrease> it could be that your webserver is trying to connect through a port or something
19:31 <+MrHairgrease> and testEnvironment is going directly through the socket
19:31 < bcnx> i c
19:31 < bcnx> let me try
19:31 <+MrHairgrease> im just guessing
19:31 <+MrHairgrease> but I had a problem like that once
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19:32 < bcnx> nope
19:32 < bcnx> no luck
19:32 <+MrHairgrease> it was a long shot
19:32 <+MrHairgrease> I'm getting out of idea's
19:32 <+MrHairgrease> maat
19:32 <+MrHairgrease> can you help out
19:32 < bcnx> makker
19:33 < bcnx> :-)
19:33 <+MrHairgrease> sorry
19:33 <+MrHairgrease> i meant matt
19:33 <+MrHairgrease> not maat
19:33 <+MrHairgrease> =)
19:33 < bcnx> who's matt?
19:33 <+MrHairgrease> ever seen this error in the apache error log:  [Wed Apr 05 17:45:07 2006] [error] [client 145.94.32.124] Can't call method "prepare" on an undefined value at /zut/domains/cvs_webgui_nl/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm line 473.\n
19:34 <+MrHairgrease> matt == pbmdawg
19:34 < bcnx> i c
19:34 < bcnx> the error is well known
19:34 <+MrHairgrease> yet testEnvironment does not complain and can connect to the db
19:34 < bcnx> but it mostly means that the account info for mysql is wrong
19:34 < bcnx> indeed
19:36 <@pbmdawg> yeah; it can't find your conf
19:36 <@pbmdawg> which version of wG
19:36 <+MrHairgrease> 6.8.7
19:36 <+MrHairgrease> right?
19:36 < bcnx> yes
19:37 <@pbmdawg> paste your apache vhost please
19:37 < bcnx> ok
19:38 < bcnx> does anybody know the paste-utility from crythias again?
19:38 <+MrHairgrease> rafb.net
19:39 < bcnx> http://rafb.net/paste/results/ytKFOr52.html
19:39 < WRE> <bcnx> http://tinyurl.com/hvome
19:41 <@pbmdawg> can you paste the section of your apache conf wherein you set your WebguiRoot variable?
19:42 < bcnx> ok
19:42 < bcnx> # Added for WebGui
19:42 < bcnx> LoadModule apreq_module /usr/lib/apache2/mod_apreq2.so
19:42 < bcnx> #LoadModule perl_module /usr/lib/apache2/mod_perl.so
19:42 < bcnx> PerlSetVar WebguiRoot /work/data/WebGUI
19:42 < bcnx> PerlCleanupHandler Apache2::SizeLimit
19:42 < bcnx> PerlRequire /work/data/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl
19:42 < bcnx> APREQ2_ReadLimit 1024M
19:45 <@pbmdawg> finally, can you paste your preload.perl contents
19:45 < bcnx> ok
19:45 <@pbmdawg> why is mod_perl commented out? b/c it's enabled elsewhere?
19:45 < bcnx> yes
19:45 <@pbmdawg> ok
19:46 < bcnx> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/ZhEygI98.html
19:46 < WRE> <bcnx> http://tinyurl.com/jh8p7
19:47 <+crythias> ah
19:47 <+crythias> oh
19:47 <+crythias> nm
19:48 <+crythias> when I'm asking for httpd-error.log, you're giving me bitsntricks-error_log, right?
19:48 < bcnx> yes
19:48 <+crythias> UseCanonicalName shouldn't be in the VirtualHost, should it?
19:49 <@pbmdawg> just for kicks, can you confirm that there is no index.pl anythere in any of the documentroots
19:50 < bcnx> crythias: it's set to "off"
19:50 <+crythias> the heck? two <Directory "">'s and one </Directory>?
19:50 <@pbmdawg> good catch
19:50 <@pbmdawg> apache should whine about that
19:51 < bcnx> I don't see it in my original file, perhaps it was an error in pasting
19:51 < bcnx> let me doublecheck
19:51 <+crythias> http://rafb.net/paste/results/ytKFOr52.html
19:51 < WRE> <crythias> http://tinyurl.com/hvome
19:51 <+crythias> 90 and 133
19:52 < bcnx> what the ...
19:52 <+crythias> shouldn't need the mod_userdir.c
19:52 < bcnx> no, it's an error with pasting
19:52 <@pbmdawg> ok
19:53 < bcnx> the conf file is an adapted copy of an example file supplied by Suse
19:53 <@pbmdawg> when starting apache, do you get...  Starting WebGUI 6.8.7
19:53 <@pbmdawg> if you start using -x
19:54 <+MrHairgrease> http://rafb.net/paste/results/YpEBSg12.html
19:54 < WRE> <MrHairgrease> http://tinyurl.com/llfmt
19:54 <+MrHairgrease> that one definately works
19:54 <+MrHairgrease> maybe it is of some help
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19:54 <+MrHairgrease> you should also see that whe you start the server without -x
19:55 <@pbmdawg> oh
19:55 <+MrHairgrease> -x is just single server mode
19:55 <+MrHairgrease> i think
19:57 < bcnx> let me check rcapache2
19:58 < bcnx> nope
19:58 < bcnx> just "SSL" as a startup flag
19:59 <+MrHairgrease> i'm going afk for a while
19:59 <+MrHairgrease> time to microwave chinese leftovers
20:00 < bcnx> :-)
20:00 < bcnx> enjoy
20:00 < bcnx> for me it's also about time to eat
20:00 < bcnx> what do you think guys, in conclusion
20:00 <@pbmdawg> what happens if you try to execute preload.perl by itself
20:00 < bcnx> should I install WRE to fix all this?
20:01 < bcnx> Starting WebGUI 6.8.7
20:01 < bcnx> Can't locate object method "server" via package "Apache2::ServerUtil" at preload.perl line 57.
20:01 < bcnx> I've had that since the beginning, when it still worked
20:01 <@pbmdawg> when what still worked
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20:02 < bcnx> my site
20:02 < bcnx> webgui
20:02 <@pbmdawg> it worked at one point?
20:02 < bcnx> yes
20:02 < bcnx> and the trouble is that I can't pinpoint what destroyed it
20:02 < bcnx> I thought i hadn't touched it
20:02 <@pbmdawg> did you upgrade mysql?
20:03 < bcnx> no
20:03 < bcnx> was 5.0 from the beginning
20:03 < bcnx> the only thing I remember was setting the root password to nothing
20:08 < bcnx> well, if noone has any more ideas I wonna call it a day
20:08 < bcnx> I think I will install WRE and try to integrate it in SLES9, hopefully without breaking too much stuff ...
20:09 < bcnx> that's probably the best strategy from here
20:09 < bcnx> (I should get a medal for perseverence  ;-) )
20:10 < bcnx> thx all for assisting
20:10 < bcnx> see you later
20:11  * bcnx is away: bcnx
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20:54 <+crythias> Roy!
20:54 <@pbmdawg> dangit
20:54 <@snapcount> guilty as charged
20:55 <+crythias> LTNS
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22:10 <@snapcount> didn't someone in here report the cached debug output bug
22:14 <@snapcount> well if you're here
22:14 <@snapcount> here's the deal
22:15 <@snapcount> are you saying that it still displays debug to someone who is not logged in that is coming from the IP addr entered?
22:15 <@snapcount> or to a visitor coming from a diff ip?
22:30 < xdanger> snapcount: visitor coming from a diff ip
22:31 <@snapcount> yeah I just dupped it
22:31 <@snapcount> thx
22:31 < xdanger> what was the problem ?
22:32 <@snapcount> I'm not sure yet
22:33 <@snapcount> I'm working on it now
22:35 < xdanger> how did you duplicate it ?
22:36 <@snapcount> turn debug on
22:36 <@snapcount> set an ip
22:36 < xdanger> I've been workin on webgui 6.8 upgrade for a couple of days now =) and have to say that I'm starting to understand how it works ;)
22:36 <@snapcount> view from the set ip
22:36 <@snapcount> unset the ip
22:36 <@snapcount> log out
22:36 <@snapcount> it's cached
22:36 < xdanger> ok
22:36 <@snapcount> that's good
22:37 <@snapcount> the good news is
22:37 <@snapcount> 80% of it will be different in 7.0
22:37 <@snapcount> =)
22:38 < xdanger> I've mostly done work on 6.7 and been following the development of 6.9x with keen interest
22:38 < xdanger> I've submited to a rss:feed from the svn
22:42 < xdanger> snapcount: any comments on this: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1463411&group_id=51417&atid=463213
22:42 < WRE> <xdanger> http://tinyurl.com/zyehq
22:46 <@snapcount> no... I'll have to look into it more to give any kind of intelligent opinion
22:50 < xdanger> I just added or status='denied' or status='pending' to the where clause of sub new in Asset.pm
22:50 < xdanger> would like to know if that breaks anything =)
22:59 <@snapcount> best thing to do would be to send that to the dev list
22:59 <@snapcount> crap
22:59 <@snapcount> I can't dup this bug
22:59 <@snapcount> I'm a moron
23:00 <@snapcount> I forgot to turn debug off
23:00 <@snapcount> =)
23:00 <@snapcount> after turning it off, I see no cached output
23:00 <@snapcount> can you dup this still?
23:01 <@snapcount> if so, are you sure it's WG caching the output and not your browser?
23:02 <@snapcount> you can determine this by deleting /tmp/WebGUICache... if that fixes the problem, then it's a WG issue
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23:26 < xdanger> It was found by a client of my client, he said that there was some wierd text on their site... I think it isn't so straightforward than just turnig debug of
23:26 < xdanger> Hmm.. I'll try something..
23:26 < xdanger> little bit later
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23:38 < xdanger> snapcount: got it...
23:39 <@snapcount> got what?
23:39 <@snapcount> a way to dup?
23:40 < xdanger> I made the debug visible to ip A and did a rm -R /tmp/WebGUICache and loaded a cached page with a visitor from there, and then viewed it as an visitor from another ip
23:40 < xdanger> it showed the debug code
23:40 <@snapcount> it did this after deleting the wG cache?
23:40 < xdanger> yeap
23:41 <@snapcount> then it can't be WebGUI
23:41 <@snapcount> unless we're not sending the correct cache control headers
23:41 <@snapcount> but I'm pretty sure they're right
23:42 < xdanger> I mean, I did a pageload from a valid debug ip, to a empty cache webgui and then a page load from another ip that wasn't on the list..
23:42 < xdanger> both as a visitor
23:45 < xdanger> It is definedly the same debug since the debug on the not-in-list-ip show env.REMOTE_ADDR as the ip on the list
23:45 <@snapcount> ok
23:45 <@snapcount> so if you delete the cache, does that fix the problem?
23:46 <@snapcount> I understand you started with a clean cache
23:46 <@snapcount> that's good
23:46 < xdanger> yes
23:46 <@snapcount> it fixes it?
23:47 < xdanger> well it removes the debug from the view of the not-in-the-list-ip =)
23:47 <@snapcount> yikes!
23:47 < xdanger> it might be the cache for visitor thats the couse here
23:47 <@snapcount> can you re-open the bug and list your exact steps as a comment
23:48 <@snapcount> I'm working on another one now
23:48 <@snapcount> but I'll come back to this
23:48 <@snapcount> thank you for helping out btw
23:48 < xdanger> I don't have a sf.net account... since some fuckup registered it before me, and doesn't even use it =/
23:48 <@snapcount> that's ok
23:49 <@snapcount> you can do it anonymous can't you
23:49 < xdanger> so, do I add an new bug, or can I open the old one ?
23:49 < xdanger> Could the couse for this effect be mod_proxy ?
23:50 < xdanger> we'll I don't think it cache the pages for that long time
23:58 < xdanger> snapcount: so, a new bug, or a comment on the old one ?
23:58 <@snapcount> a comment on the old one is fine
23:58 <@snapcount> and change the status to open
23:59 < xdanger> I can't changestatus... I think I can't...
23:59 < xdanger> might be missing something...
--- Day changed Thu Apr 06 2006
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01:36 <+MrHairgrease> len!
01:56 < lenthamen> hey Martin
01:57 < lenthamen> hoegatie
01:57 <+MrHairgrease> goed
01:57 <+MrHairgrease> don't you have to sleep
01:57 <+MrHairgrease> being a father and working bee and all that =)
01:57 < lenthamen> Going to bed soon....
01:57 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
01:57 <+MrHairgrease> me too
01:58 < lenthamen> do you have to work tomorrow ?
01:59 < lenthamen> Going offline. ttyl.
02:00 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
02:00 <+MrHairgrease> I'm working to morrow
02:00 <+MrHairgrease> cya later
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03:16 -!- rizen changed the topic of #WebGUI to: WebGUI 7.0 will rule
03:17  * rizen burns crythias to the ground
03:17 <+crythias> the heck?
03:17 <@rizen> just seeing if you're paying attention
03:17 <@rizen> =)
03:18 <+crythias> I'm burned in effigy, baby... ooooh ooh ooh oh
03:19 <+crythias> http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/greg_kihn_band/jeopardy.html
03:19 < WRE> <crythias> http://tinyurl.com/fv3p2
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03:22 <+crythias> I have to say that I did like zope for its inheritance and edit-then-publish for content.
03:23 <+crythias> sigh
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16:45 < Baylink> Mornin' all.
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16:57 <@pbmdawg> welcome len
17:05 < lenthamen> hey matthew
17:05 < lenthamen> When will WebGUI 7.0 come alive ?
17:07 <@pbmdawg> 7.00 should be final/stable/bugfree by Aug 1.  plainblack.com will be upgraded to 6.99.0 (alpha) by May 1.
17:08 <@pbmdawg> does that help?
17:11 <+crythias> in other news, France Surrenders.
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17:44 < lenthamen> May 1st... That in 3 weeks ! Coolio.
17:48 < Baylink> Naw; I don't like his hair.
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18:48 <+perlDreamer> calc E-ROD
18:48 < WRE> E-ROD = Evil Release Overlord and Destructor
18:48 <+perlDreamer> E-ROD lives!
18:50 <+perlDreamer> (but is very quiet)
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19:06 <@pbmdawg> E-ROD is in class
19:07 <+perlDreamer> I see
19:07 <+perlDreamer> {on,off}line
19:07 <@pbmdawg> off
19:07 <@pbmdawg> afk
19:08 <+perlDreamer> The lights are on, but nobody is home
19:12 <@pbmdawg> newspapers piling up on the front lawn
19:13 <@pbmdawg> or are those rss entries
19:13 <+perlDreamer> no, those are bad SVN commits by volunteers
19:23 <+perlDreamer> I am the loop meister
19:30 <@pbmdawg> map(grep($_,@_),$_)
19:31 <+perlDreamer> ()
19:31 <+perlDreamer> using map in null context
19:32 <+perlDreamer> The Group test is getting big
19:34 <@pbmdawg> does it test for recursive group detection yet
19:34 <+perlDreamer> yes
19:34 <+perlDreamer> it has for a while
19:34 <@pbmdawg> for addToGroup and isInGroup
19:34 <+perlDreamer> both
19:34 <@pbmdawg> neat
19:35 <+perlDreamer> it has 82 hand written tests
19:35 <+perlDreamer> well, my local version has 82
19:35 <+perlDreamer> the committed one has about 70
19:35 <+perlDreamer> once the karma stuff is done, I'll do a commit
19:35 <@pbmdawg> gonna lie down for a while; bbl
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22:12 <@snapcount> echo
22:12 <+perlDreamer> pong
22:12 < xdanger> echo
22:12 <+perlDreamer> E-ROD lives!
22:12 <@snapcount> for now
22:12 <@snapcount> =)
22:13 <+perlDreamer> have you seen my new, mad User and Group tests?
22:13 <@snapcount> I noticed a bunch of new stuff when I updated
22:21 <+perlDreamer> I've gotten tired of writing lots of test code, so I started writing tests inside of loops, all driven by data structures
22:45 <@snapcount> grr
22:45 <@snapcount> aparently the RTE insert collateral popup doesn't work any longer
23:01 <@snapcount> perlDreamer: it was you!!!
23:01 <@snapcount> it's all your fault
23:01 <@snapcount> now you've done it
23:01 <@snapcount> it's all over now
23:02  * snapcount sighs
23:08 <@snapcount> if we had smoke tests running on branch, this would have been detected
23:08  * snapcount stomps his feet and pouts
23:09 <@snapcount> well, it's fixed now so I suppose you're forgiven
23:09 <@snapcount> I'm glad we had this talk
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23:17  * snapcount scratches his head
23:17  * crythias passes some "Head & shoulders" ...
23:18 <@snapcount> thx
23:18 <@snapcount> so crythias
23:18 <+crythias> Selsun Blue
23:18 <@snapcount> I can't dup this bug
23:18 <+crythias> Dennorex
23:18 <@snapcount> care to give it a go
23:18 <+crythias> Itchy, Flaky, scalp. Neutrogena T-Gel
23:18 <+crythias> :) yes!
23:19 <@snapcount> 1439923
23:19 <@snapcount> make sure you're working out of svn
23:19 <@snapcount> and that you update
23:19 <+crythias> oh. :( might be an issue.
23:19 <@snapcount> actually
23:19 <@snapcount> it may not matter
23:20 <@snapcount> the bug I just fixed didn't exist last release
23:20 <@snapcount> so you should be able to use the RTE
23:21 <+crythias> like, demo?
23:22 <@snapcount> yep
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23:23 <+crythia1> grr
23:23 <+crythia1> http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1144353331_349/home?op=switchOffAdmin
23:23 < WRE> <crythia1> http://tinyurl.com/e9osy
23:24 <+crythia1> at the end, I uploaded a linked image
23:24 <@snapcount> the image appears to be human
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23:26 <+crythias> I keep being dropped
23:26 <+crythias> not happy
23:27 <+crythias> two image upload buttons
23:27 <@snapcount> yeah
23:28 <@snapcount> insert/edit image
23:28 <@snapcount> and insert collateral
23:28 <@snapcount> they both work for me
23:28 <@snapcount> y tu?
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23:29 <@snapcount> what is your malfunction
23:29 <+crythia1> beats the heck out of me.
23:29 <@snapcount> do you have like a morse code connection or something
23:29 <+crythia1> I keep getting dropped
23:29 <@snapcount> keying bit by bit
23:29 <+crythia1> yeah
23:30 <@snapcount> so what's the verdict?
23:30 <+crythia1> ok. but the example given in the bug isn't bad
23:30 <+crythia1> unless it's index.html bad
23:30 <+crythia1> how do I upload an image...
23:30 <@snapcount> maybe this happens if you set a page extension in settings
23:31 <@snapcount> or maybe he's exporting the content
23:31 <@snapcount> you can't directly from the RTE
23:31 <@snapcount> that feature is coming back though
23:31 <@snapcount> you have to use filepile
23:31 <@snapcount> then select the image using insert collateral in the RTE
23:32 <+crythia1> filepile prepended the url
23:33 <+crythia1> but that's expected behavior
23:33 <+crythia1> having trouble choosing an image.
23:34 <@snapcount> click on the dot to pick the object
23:35 <@snapcount> use the link to get to it
23:35 <+crythia1> ok.
23:36 <+crythia1> I don't have home/uploads.
23:36 <@snapcount> you have just uploads right
23:36 <+crythia1> yeah.
23:36 <+crythia1> I'm thinking... what? gateway url issue in .conf?
23:37 <@snapcount> well, these guys use wG for creating content
23:37 <@snapcount> then they export it to static files
23:37 <@snapcount> and send it to mirrors
23:37 <@snapcount> and it's not a new install, so there site settings should be correct
23:38 <@snapcount> s/there/their
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23:38 <+crythia1> I don't see the issue.
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23:39 <+crythias> added article on different page
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00:29 <@snapcount> perlDreamer: ping
00:29 <+perlDreamer> ahoy
00:30 <+perlDreamer> What can I do for you today?
00:30 <+perlDreamer> Would you like to play a game of chess?
00:30 <@snapcount> would you mind running through 6.8.8... I'm doing a release tonight
00:30 <@snapcount> want to test it out
00:30 <@snapcount> make sure everything is up to snuff
00:31 <+perlDreamer> is the bug list updated with what you've fixed?
00:31 <@snapcount> yeah
00:31 <@snapcount> everything on JT's list is fixed
00:31 <+perlDreamer> even the calendar?
00:31 <@snapcount> except the calendar stuff
00:31 <+perlDreamer> ah
00:32 <@snapcount> too much work, not enough time
00:32 <+perlDreamer> I know
00:32 <+perlDreamer> I'll look after I find out why my scratchFilter tests are failing
00:32 <+perlDreamer> anything in particular you'd like me to look at?
00:33 <@snapcount> maybe you could run the test suite against it
00:33 <+perlDreamer> I can do that, but the 6.8.8 test suite is way smaller than the 6.9 one
00:33 <@snapcount> other than that, look at the changelog and look for anything that may have been broken by the change
00:34 <@snapcount> if you can think of anything
00:34 <@snapcount> so if someone changed dataform, make sure the dataform still works
00:34 <@snapcount> I'll be doing the same
00:35 <+perlDreamer> after this is the plan to start kicking butt on 6.99, or 6.8.9?
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00:35 <+perlDreamer> yo *dawg
00:36 <@pbmdawg> yo *reamer
00:36 <@snapcount> well, we have 6.99 feature freeze in 3 weeks
00:36 <@pbmdawg> YES
00:36 <@snapcount> however, 7.0 won't be declared stable for quite some time
00:37 <@snapcount> so there are likely to be several more 6.9 releases
00:37 <@snapcount> er 6.8
00:38 <@snapcount> pbmdawg: welcome back to life
00:38 <@snapcount> we still need to talk
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00:45 < pbmdaw1> how does one collide nicks
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17:31 < Baylink> Has anyone played with using a Navigation to provide Google with a sitemap XML file?
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19:26 < sanyock> Hi guys! Please suggest, does current version work with mysql 4x or only 5x?
19:47 < xdanger> 4.1 works
19:47 < sanyock> thanks
19:48 < sanyock> will it work with the latest 6.x or may be 7.0?
19:48 < xdanger> but I'm not sure about coming 6.99 version..
19:48 < xdanger> I'll work with 6.8.x
19:48 < sanyock> ok
19:49 < xdanger> It'll
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19:38 < sanyock> Hello !
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18:27 <+crythias> !bofh
18:27 < WRE> BOFH Quick-excuse: dry joints on cable plug
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18:33 < sanyock> Hi All
18:33 <+crythias> most humble greetings, etc.
18:34 <+MrHairgrease> hi
18:34  * sanyock very curious about 7.0 release estimated date :)
18:34 <+MrHairgrease> who isn't
18:35 < sanyock> :)
18:35 <+MrHairgrease> but may 1 should be code freeze
18:36 < sanyock> I wonder if the system is currently been developped by about two persons (management not counted)
18:36 < sanyock> bug system has assignments for two persons only
18:37 <+MrHairgrease> There's more than two people
18:37 < sanyock> may be I miss a lot (core, etc), it is just my IMHO
18:37 <+MrHairgrease> although the pb guys do an awful lot
18:37 < sanyock> sure
18:37 <+MrHairgrease> I'm only a part time programmer
18:38 <+MrHairgrease> So I have less time t ofix bugs
18:38 <+MrHairgrease> I am busy with integrating the sqlform into 7
18:38 <+MrHairgrease> and I'm working on graphing
18:38 <+MrHairgrease> a grpahing subsystem*
18:40 < sanyock> wonder why there are so many cms's available, why people spend so many resources on them
18:41 < sanyock> for example there are may be about 10 compeeting internet browsers
18:41 < sanyock> 3 popular search engines
18:41 < sanyock> and about 550 cms's registered at cmsmatrix
18:42 < sanyock> may it is only a half
18:42 < sanyock> I tried so many and webgui is the only I liked
18:42 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
18:42 < sanyock> also learning typo3 currently
18:43 <+MrHairgrease> a lot of them also suck very hard
18:43 <+MrHairgrease> b/c there a hobby project
18:43 <+MrHairgrease> without vision
18:43 <+MrHairgrease> never used typo3
18:43 <+MrHairgrease> but I heard it's pretty good
18:43 <+MrHairgrease> also pretty hard to learn
18:43 < sanyock> yes, it is unusual
18:44 <+crythias> I have a WebGUI FAQ. Although I'm likely to revamp it.
18:44 <+MrHairgrease> Are you gonnan choose typo over wg?
18:44 < sanyock> actually after reviewving so many cms's I decided to use only two open source: WebGUI and may be typo3
18:44 <+MrHairgrease> hey gerald
18:44 <+crythias> heya
18:44 < sanyock> I use webgui at my job
18:44 <+crythias> come 7.0, I'm probably going to start all over.
18:45 < sanyock> and going to use typo3 for my personal site
18:45 <+MrHairgrease> wg is my job =)
18:45 <+crythias> I'm merely a pita helper.
18:45 < sanyock> Also looking at MS Portal for intranet
18:45 <+crythias> and once in a while I help debug.
18:46 < sanyock> http://kurgan.pfr.ru is running webgui
18:46 <+MrHairgrease> MS Portal...
18:46 <+MrHairgrease> is that any good?
18:46 <+MrHairgrease> mucho $$$ I presume.
18:46 < sanyock> i do not know right now
18:46 < sanyock> in russia it does not matter :)
18:46 < sanyock> at least for internal sites
18:46 <+MrHairgrease> =)
18:47 <+MrHairgrease> Too bad my russian stops at vodka
18:47 <+MrHairgrease> and I don't even know how to spell that =)
18:48 < sanyock> and white bears ? ;)
18:49 <+MrHairgrease> nah
18:49 <+MrHairgrease> don't know 'em
18:55 < sanyock> not sure if WebGUI will include a tag cleaner
18:55 < sanyock> it would be very convenient if wev preview taken from ms office be automitaclly cleaned
18:55 < sanyock> leave only a small set like: <p>, <table>
18:55 < sanyock> remove all style=
18:56 <+MrHairgrease> I think TinyMCE can already do that
18:56 <+crythias> bluggable into tinymce
18:56 <+crythias> pluggable
18:56 <+MrHairgrease> anyway gotta go in a few minutes
18:57 < sanyock> may be,
18:57 < sanyock> I previously tried FrontPage 2003 and latest Dreamviewer
18:57 < sanyock> they clean, but not all
18:58 <+MrHairgrease> hmm. I'm not really into tag cleaning
18:58 <+MrHairgrease> I use vim and latex =)
18:58 < sanyock> I found a few more tools but not tested yet:
18:58 < sanyock> example:
18:58 < sanyock> http://weare.ru/cgi-bin/clearhtml.cgi
18:58 <+MrHairgrease> but you might find more info on the tinymce site
18:58 < sanyock> I will
18:58 <+MrHairgrease> ok gotta go
18:59 <+MrHairgrease> later guys
18:59 < sanyock> Thanks for info
18:59 <+MrHairgrease> bye
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22:08 <+crythias> hi
22:08 <+crythias> btw
22:08 <+crythias> ack
22:08 <+crythias> what a pita when you set up sendmail for the first time in like ever
22:36 <+crythias> and ack. sendmail config info is not in english. Well, ok, but it's not in "dummy language for gerald" english.
22:37 <+crythias> On another note, Don't joke about people's experience with marijuana... they don't seem to have a sense of humor about the effect mj has on their minds.
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22:43 < nbcccorp> when did marijuana start having an effect on your mind?
22:45 <+crythias> my mind in specific or "one's mind"?
22:46 < nbcccorp> who are you?
22:46 <+crythias> who am I?
22:46 <+crythias> Are you serious?
22:46 < nbcccorp> mj = mem loss = joking
22:47  * crythias is so confused.
22:47 < nbcccorp> so sad. it seems your thc riddled braincells are having a tough time.
22:47 <+crythias> but I don't smoke.
22:47 < nbcccorp> ah
22:47 < nbcccorp> I've heard eating it is alot better. never tried. more power to you.
22:48 <+crythias> Someone on a particular board was talking about how they have had the best experiences of their life while snmoking bud.
22:48 <+crythias> and I casually observed "Oh, you remember it? I thought..."
22:48 <+crythias> and so quickly got slammed.
22:48 <+crythias> ah, well.
22:49 <+crythias> it's as if I argued religion with them.
23:02 < nbcccorp> can't believe you were so unfeeling. How could you intimate that their best experience in life might have been lost in a haze of thc?? Shame shame.
23:04 < nbcccorp> so what's the current release date for wg 7.0? a.k.a The Great Hope.
23:06 < Baylink> I believe he said Aug 1?  Maybe Jul 1?  It was on the ML
23:10 <+crythias> that'd be a mailing list changeover?
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04:51 < DforgeH_> Hello
04:52 < DforgeH_> I'
04:52 < DforgeH_> am having trouble with a current 5.x install properly creating links. Instead of site.com/index.pl/foo it just does index.pl/foo
04:56 < DforgeH_> Got it.
04:56 < DforgeH_> thanks.
04:56 < DforgeH_> damn, or not
05:02 <+crythias> hi
05:02 <+crythias> I'm about the only non-bot here.
05:02 <+crythias> more or less.
05:03 <+crythias> dforgeh_
05:05 < DforgeH_> :) okay
05:06 < DforgeH_> I'm working on the issue with maybe some whitespace in my config file, but I can't seem to find any.
05:07 < DforgeH_> Hrm...
05:07 < DforgeH_> Looks like it is happy again
05:07 < DforgeH_> Odd.
05:07 < DforgeH_> I wonder if my cache had to clear.
05:10 < nuba> im guess i'm non-bot too
05:10 < nuba> not sure tho
05:25 <+crythias> heh
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19:55 < xdanger_> MrHairgrease: yo, I'm just wondering could the be a "create a sqlite3 database" function in sqlform ?
19:55 <+MrHairgrease> sorry i don't understand
19:57 < xdanger_> since sqlform uses database links, it would be nice to allow user to create a db. sqlite would be perfect for this... you could even version it through storage =)
19:57 <+MrHairgrease> oh i see
19:57 <+MrHairgrease> it only supports mysql
19:57 <+MrHairgrease> but you can always try it on sqllite of course
19:57 < xdanger_> after that it could really replace DataForm completely
19:57 < xdanger_> =)
19:57 <+MrHairgrease> it might work if you do not use the more obscure datatypes
19:58 <+MrHairgrease> but i dunno
19:58 <+MrHairgrease> it was made for mysql
19:58 <+MrHairgrease> xdanger
19:59 <+MrHairgrease> are you comming to the wuc in vegas in september?
20:00 < xdanger_> propably don't have enough money =(
20:01 <+MrHairgrease> that sucks
20:01 < xdanger_> do you use something mysql specific ? do you need to use ?
20:01 <+MrHairgrease> I'd love to drink a beer with you
20:01 <+MrHairgrease> I probably did
20:01 < xdanger_> since flyes from finland<->vegas could cost someting like 2000 euros...
20:02 <+MrHairgrease> mysql has this ansi conformace fear going on
20:02 <+MrHairgrease> that much???
20:02 <+MrHairgrease> wtf!
20:02 < xdanger_> =)
20:02 <+MrHairgrease> I'm not sure what a return flight would be from olland to vegas.
20:02 < xdanger_> I don't really now... I'll check...
20:02 <+MrHairgrease> But not THAT much.
20:03 <+MrHairgrease> it's about 500 to 600 euros
20:03 <+MrHairgrease> Joeri says ebookers.com
20:03 <+MrHairgrease> we don't travel buisiness class of course =)
20:04 < xdanger_> I'm in lapland on vacation with my parents... In a little cottage with only gprs connection, so it's slow to look anything up from the net =)
20:04 <+MrHairgrease> heh
20:04 <+MrHairgrease> probably because of the north pole being close =)
20:05 <+MrHairgrease> my internet is pretty good, but then again... I'm not on vacation
20:06 <+MrHairgrease> I'm in the office
20:06 < xdanger_> but I have to reserve many hundrets of dollars for beer and stuff ;)
20:06 < xdanger_> If I go to vegas ;)
20:06 <+MrHairgrease> Trying to port the sqlform to 699
20:06 <+MrHairgrease> heh
20:06 <+MrHairgrease> beer isn't that expensive in vegas
20:06 <+MrHairgrease> sometimes even cheaper than in holland
20:06 <+MrHairgrease> not very bad
20:07 < xdanger_> We did a layout update on our "biggest" webgui site... and upgraded to 6.8.7 at the sametime..
20:07 <+MrHairgrease> ok
20:07 < xdanger_> http://luovapaja.fi see for your self...
20:07 <+MrHairgrease> did the upgrade work?
20:07 < xdanger_> after many try's =)
20:07 < xdanger_> tries..
20:08 < xdanger_> There was missing StorageIds in the database, and stuff like that...
20:08 <+MrHairgrease> that sucks
20:08 <+MrHairgrease> nice site
20:08 <+MrHairgrease> too bad my finnish is not that good
20:08 < xdanger_> =)
20:09 < xdanger_> there is a english site comming this summer or so...
20:09 <+MrHairgrease> actually the only thing I can do with finnish is recognize that it is indeed finnish
20:09 <+MrHairgrease> ok
20:09 <+MrHairgrease> let me know
20:09 < xdanger_> that's a portal for creative people in central finland... (where I live)
20:09 <+MrHairgrease> ok
20:09 < xdanger_> It's a part of a EU-project
20:09 <+MrHairgrease> i gotta go
20:10 <+MrHairgrease> have a nice hollidays
20:10 <+MrHairgrease> and see you later
20:10 < xdanger_> ok, have fun ;)
20:10 <+MrHairgrease> in vegas hopefully =)
20:10 <+MrHairgrease> later
20:10 < xdanger_> Or i'll come to dutch sometimes =)
20:10 <+MrHairgrease> that's also cool
20:10 <+MrHairgrease> we'll find one way or antoher =)
20:10 <+MrHairgrease> bye
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21:27 < fdillon> anything alive out there or is eveyone a bot today?
21:43 < xdanger> not a bot =)
21:44 < fdillon> have you heard of any vulnerablities in WG 6.7 what would allow someone to add themselves to a group?
21:49 < xdanger> wasn't there some vulnerablities in 6.7... don't just remember what..
21:58 < xdanger> 6.8.6 fixed: fixed a serious security bug that would allow user account creation using a well crafted url when anonymous registration is set to off. (Thanks to Luke Bartholemy for the patch)
22:18 < fdillon> right
22:18 < fdillon> I can't remember what it was though
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18:00 <+MrHairgrease> Frank!
18:01 <+MrHairgrease> I have a question
18:01 <+MrHairgrease> If I add content, log out and log in it has disappeared
18:01 <+MrHairgrease> I this because I do not run spectre?
18:01 <+MrHairgrease> calc spectre
18:01 < WRE> spectre = Supervisor of Perplexing Event-handling Contraptions for Triggering Relentless Executions
18:21 < fdillon> MrHairgrease must be Martin =)
18:21 < fdillon> To be honest I haven't played with 7.0 all that much.  In fact I just got it up and running last week
18:21 < fdillon> so I'm not sure
18:22 <+MrHairgrease> Yeah me to
18:22 <+MrHairgrease> too
18:23 <+MrHairgrease> just commited the sqlform
19:22 < fdillon> Hey Crythias, do you still have that freebie users guide online?
19:24 <+MrHairgrease> are you gonna sue? =)
19:31 < fdillon> No, I want to point someone to it
19:31 < fdillon> do you know the link?
19:33 <+MrHairgrease> maybe
19:33 <+MrHairgrease> wait please
19:35 <+MrHairgrease> http://gwybsd.homeip.net/fomfiles/cache/1.html
19:35 < WRE> <MrHairgrease> http://tinyurl.com/otn4z
19:35 <+MrHairgrease> I was just kidding about the sueing btw
19:36 < fdillon> Yeah I know =p
19:41 <+MrHairgrease> later
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19:46 < fdillon> signing off here too.
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06:26 <+perlDreamer> !lastSpoke snapcount
06:26 <+perlDreamer> lastSpoke snapcount
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00:38 < siriousje> ola
01:04 < siriousje> and I really mean it, 7.0 will rule, but pls give me the tell-tale edge I need to push it to my clients
01:04 < siriousje> 'just because' isn't going to cut it
01:07 < siriousje> (and just because I believe in it, doesn't do it either)
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17:25 < nbcccorp> Hey, does anyone know if individual posts to a forum have an assetId?
17:25 < wouter_procolix> I think everything has an assetId.
17:25 < nbcccorp> When I edit a post I don't see an ID. Any idea how I might find it?
17:26 < wouter_procolix> Probably in the html source.
17:26 < wouter_procolix> Right before the post somewhere should be a <a name="idxxxxxx"></a> tag.
17:26 < wouter_procolix> where the xxxx is the assetId.
17:26 < wouter_procolix> This allows links like domain/page#idxxxxx directly to the article.
17:27 < wouter_procolix> for example: http://www.plainblack.com/etcetera/sql-lookup-for-group-membership-fails#rf7SXYil5EaI2n-4fmokZA
17:27 < WRE> <wouter_procolix> http://tinyurl.com/s9eno
17:27 < nbcccorp> got it. thx.
17:28 < wouter_procolix> okay :-)
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05:56 < phobia> !seen snapcount
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11:16 < Radi1> Hiyas
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16:33 < christian-Marc> Hoi Robbert
16:33 < christian-Marc> ik was aan het wachten tot je op de e-mail zou reageren
16:34 < christian-Marc> ik was een beetje laat met e-mailen
16:35 < Trebbor123> Aha, geen probleem
16:35 < Trebbor123> Ik had ook beter even eerder kunnen reageren.
16:35 < Trebbor123> :)
16:36 < christian-Marc> Bart zit naast mee, maar zal straks aansluiten
16:36 < Trebbor123> Ok
16:36 < christian-Marc> wat doe jij met webgui?
16:37 < christian-Marc> en hoelang werk je hier al mee
16:37 < Trebbor123> We gebruiken Webgui hoofdzakelijk voor intern gebruik
16:38 < Trebbor123> Ik werk bij een bedrijf met een stuk of 15 websites, die staan inmiddels allemaal in webgui
16:38 < christian-Marc> dat zijn er best veel
16:38 < christian-Marc> allemaal zelf opgezet>
16:38 < christian-Marc> >
16:38 < christian-Marc> ?
16:39 < Trebbor123> Ik doe dit samen met een collega. Ik doe alles in/met Webgui, mijn collega is programmeur en zorgt voor xml-imput
16:39 < christian-Marc> jij geeft ook interne trainingen?
16:39 < Trebbor123> en mensen intern bij verschillende dochterondernemingen zijn dan weer verantwoordelijk voor de content
16:40 < Trebbor123> Ja, dat probeer ik. :)
16:40 < christian-Marc> heb je al iets dat je wilt delen?
16:41 < Trebbor123> Nee, ik heb geen concrete documentatie. We zijn pas recent overgegaan op de laatste versie. We zaten nog op 6.2.9
16:42 < christian-Marc> heb je ideeen hoe je deze wilt gaan maken?
16:42 < Trebbor123> Nou, wat ik nu eigenlijk het belangrijkste vind is de hover-help, de vertaling van de assets en de help index.
16:43 < Trebbor123> Zijn jullie daar al mee bezig geweest voor 6.8?
16:43 < christian-Marc> nee, er is nog niks vertaald
16:43 < Trebbor123> Ah, ok.
16:44 < christian-Marc> wat we wel hebben voorbereidt is een vertaal tooltje
16:44 < Trebbor123> Maar de help van de pre-asset versie is natuurlijk wel voor een groot deel herbruikbaar
16:44 < christian-Marc> uiteraard
16:45 < Trebbor123> Wat is het idee van het tooltje?
16:46 < christian-Marc> dit is een online lijst van alle begrippen binnen webgui, de meest recente binnen subversion
16:46 < christian-Marc> het adres is: http://80.69.75.111/
16:47 < christian-Marc> met login id: vertaal en password: speelfout
16:48 < christian-Marc> ik krijg net een e-mail binnen dat een vierde persoon wil helpen met vertalingen
16:48 < Trebbor123> Ah, das mooi.
16:49 < Trebbor123> De tool ziet er al handig uit. Dus eigenlijk is het dan een kwestie van beginnen met vertalen?
16:49 < christian-Marc> inderdaad
16:49 < Trebbor123> Wat is het verschil tussen de rode en witte regels?
16:49 < christian-Marc> ik geloof dat de rode regels in versie 7.0 vervallen
16:50 < christian-Marc> deze hebben een tag old version
16:50 < Trebbor123> Maar ik begrijp dat jullie ook een handleiding willen schrijven vor WebGUI?
16:50 < christian-Marc> dat klopt
16:50 < christian-Marc> ik heb een handleiding geschreven in openoffice
16:50 < christian-Marc> voor content managers
16:51 < Trebbor123> Ja, dat is ook het gedeelte waar ik het meest aan zou hebben.
16:53 < christian-Marc> heb je mijn agenda gelezen?
16:53 < Trebbor123> Yep.
16:53 < christian-Marc> zou je deze willen doorlopen?
16:54 < Trebbor123> Dat is goed
16:54 < christian-Marc> bart is even aangeschoven
16:54 < christian-Marc> en leest met mij mee
16:55 < christian-Marc> hij heeft nog geen eigen irc-account
16:55 < Trebbor123> Ok
16:55 < christian-Marc> ik stel voor om de handleidingen te gaan schrijven in latex
16:56 < christian-Marc> ik bedenk me net dat ik als eerste moet vragen of de agenda compleet is? is de agenda compleet
16:56 < Trebbor123> Wat mij betreft wel. Heb je nog iets van Arjan gehoord?
16:57 < christian-Marc> wat bedoel je?
16:57 < Trebbor123> Of die zou komen?
16:57 < christian-Marc> nee, hij stuurt ons bij van de achtergrond
16:57 < christian-Marc> zal niet direct participeren
16:58 < Trebbor123> O.k.
16:59 < christian-Marc> Arjan wil wel graag weten wat de structuur wordt van de verschillende handleidingen
17:00 < Trebbor123> Wat is voor jullie belangrijker, de online documentatie c.q. vertaling van WebGUI of een handleiding over hoe te werken met WebGUI?
17:02 < christian-Marc> eigenlijk beide
17:03 < christian-Marc> wij hadden documantatie nodig voor een training en die heb ik geschreven
17:03 < Trebbor123> Aha, ik zit het meest te wachten op de vertaling van de Assets.
17:03 < christian-Marc> oke
17:03 < Trebbor123> Is het een idee om ons eerst hierop te concentreren en binnen een aantal week dit met behulp van jullie tool dit met zoveel mogelijk mensen te vertalen?
17:04 < christian-Marc> goed idee
17:04 < christian-Marc> dit moet toch eerst gebeuren omdat deze berippen binnen de handleidingen gebruikt worden
17:04 < Trebbor123> Ja, inderdaad.
17:04 < Trebbor123> Hoeveel mensen zijn hiertoe bereid, zover bekend?
17:05 < christian-Marc> ik kreeg net nog een naam binnen Hans van Zeist
17:05 < christian-Marc> hij wil helpen met vertalen
17:06 < christian-Marc> ik stel voor om de vertalingen in ons tooltje te gaan doen
17:06 < Trebbor123> En verder? Len, jij, bart, Arjan?
17:06 < Trebbor123> Ja, lijkt me ook een goed idee.
17:07 < Trebbor123> Ieder een bepaald deel, en misschien afspreken dat ieder ook even het deel van iemand anders naloopt op eventuele foutjes/verbeteringen.
17:07 < christian-Marc> namen zijn: Bart Jol, Bart Coninckx, Hans van Zeist, jij en ik
17:08 < christian-Marc> dus vijf personene
17:08 < Trebbor123> Ah, twee bart-en. :)
17:08 < Trebbor123> En Len Kranendonk zouden we ook nog kunnen vragen.
17:08 < Trebbor123> Ik heb in eerste instantie met hem contact gezocht en het leek hem ook een goed idee.
17:10 < christian-Marc> zeker, ik zal een mailtje sturen
17:12 < christian-Marc> als we straks klaar zijn zal ik naar iedereen een mailtje sturen
17:13 < Trebbor123> Okee.
17:13 < Trebbor123> Ik moet er nu helaas vandaar, er wordt op mij gewacht.
17:14 < Trebbor123> Wellicht kunnen we per e-mail met alle belangstellenden het hebben over de verdeling van het vertalen en dan vervolgens enthousiast beginnen te vertalen?
17:14 < Trebbor123> Of zijn er nog dingen die eerst besproken moeten worden?
17:15 < christian-Marc> heb je ervaring met latex?
17:15 < Trebbor123> Nee, heb er zelfs nog nooit van gehoord.
17:15 < christian-Marc> oke, hierin wil ik de handleidingen gaan schrijven
17:15 < Trebbor123> Klinkt ook als een linux iets, ik ben maar een simpele Windows gebruiker
17:15 < christian-Marc> nee, niks met linux te maken, maar dat komt nog wel
17:16 < Trebbor123> Yep, das goed.
17:16 < christian-Marc> heb je een account op webgui.nl
17:16 < christian-Marc> ?
17:16 < Trebbor123> Ja, geloof het wel. :)
17:16 < christian-Marc> we gaan daar een thuisbasis van het vertaal project maken, met forum en download plaats
17:16 < Trebbor123> Ah, lijkt me een goed idee.
17:16 < christian-Marc> het adres stuur ik je nog
17:17 < Trebbor123> Maar ik moet nu echt gaan.
17:17 < Trebbor123> verder contact eerst per email?
17:17 < christian-Marc> zeker
17:17 < Trebbor123> Oke.
17:17 < Trebbor123> Sorry voor de onderbreking, we spreken elkaar nog.
17:17 < christian-Marc> bedankt voor de chat, wil je dit vaker op een bepaald tijdstip doen
17:17 < Trebbor123> Prettig weekend alvast!
17:17 < Trebbor123> Ja hoor, geen probleem.
17:17 < christian-Marc> mail dit ook nog, later!!
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00:46 < lenthamen> hello
00:46 <+perlDreamer> hey, len
00:47 < lenthamen> hey colin.
00:48 <+perlDreamer> how are things over there?
00:48 < lenthamen> I'm trying to make a static dump of a webgui site. The problem I'm experiencing is that I have /page and page/sub. In that case I get both a file "page" and a directory "page" which isn't possible....
00:49 <+perlDreamer> html dump or database dump?
00:49 < lenthamen> All is going well !
00:49 < lenthamen> html dump
00:49 < lenthamen> using wget.
00:49 <+perlDreamer> for the purpose of the dump can you add a suffix to the pages in wget using the settings?
00:50 < lenthamen> yeah that would fix it, the problem is that URLExtension only works for new pages afaik.
00:50 <+perlDreamer> probably
00:51 < lenthamen> I'll going to add .html to <tmpl_var page.url> in the navigation and use mod_rewrite to remove it....
00:52 <+perlDreamer> have you looked at --no-directories in wget?
00:52 <+perlDreamer> or --html-extension?
00:53 <+perlDreamer> --html-extension will automatically add .html to your pages on download
00:54 < lenthamen> I've tried --nd with no luck... Will have a look at --html-extension !
00:59 < lenthamen> wget -p -r --html-extension -k http://the.webgui.site
00:59 < lenthamen> that did it !
00:59 < lenthamen> Thanks Colin !
01:01 <+perlDreamer> no problem, len
01:01 <+perlDreamer> manpages rock :)
01:11 < lenthamen> We might document this somewhere... It works really nice. All page requisites are also downloaded (-p) and links are converted (-k) so the pages are suitable for local viewing.
01:11 <+perlDreamer> Well, we could either do it on the dicussion boards, or on the online docs
01:12 < lenthamen> I'll post it on the discussion board..
01:25 <+perlDreamer> I'll stick it in the online docs, too.  Maybe if we start to add things like that to it people will find them more useful.
01:26 < lenthamen> http://www.plainblack.com/etcetera/howto-export-complete-webgui-site
01:26 < WRE> <lenthamen> http://tinyurl.com/peos7
01:27 < lenthamen> this works much better than the build-in export function or the generateContent.pl script, because wget is taking care of all the hard things (url rewriting / image downloading).
01:28 <+perlDreamer> yeah, images, javascript, css and everything
01:30 <+perlDreamer> I had an idea for little Wobject.  I call it the Scheduler.
01:30 <+perlDreamer> Each wobject would be able to have a bunch of configurable time slots (time, location, number of people)
01:30 <+perlDreamer> the wobject then gives regular users the ability to sign up for empty, unused slots
01:30 <+perlDreamer> and generate a report of who is coming when
01:32 < lenthamen> ok, that sounds cool. Can't multiple users sign up for the same time slot ?
01:32 <+perlDreamer> only if the slot will take multiple people
01:32 < lenthamen> ok.
01:33 <+perlDreamer> It would be good for scheduling office hours and appointments and stuff like that.
01:34 < lenthamen> yeah that's handy for conferences or meeting room reservation or even the "borrow my dvd collection" :)
01:34 <+perlDreamer> well, for conferences there's the new EventManagementSystem.  I need something like it but much, much simpler
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