--- Log opened Tue Jan 03 17:52:12 2006
17:52 -!- xdanger [i=xdanger@i.should.be.in.a.mentalhouse.net] has joined #webgui
17:52 -!- Irssi: #webgui: Total of 3 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 2 normal]
17:52 -!- Irssi: Join to #webgui was synced in 0 secs
17:54 < lonki> k, talk to you later guys, I'm going home
17:54 -!- lonki is now known as lonki_home
17:54 <@bwvoidfv> hello xdanger
17:55 <@bwvoidfv> i'm matthew wilson (from the wg-dev list)
17:56 < xdanger> hi, i'm Jukka Raimovaara... long time reader of wg-dev...
17:57 <@bwvoidfv> what's your relation to webgui?
17:57 <@bwvoidfv> (other than being on the dev list) :)
17:57 < xdanger> I was kinda hoping for a irc-channel for webgui, because just some times someone might want to just chat about wg
17:57 < xdanger> I've been using it from 6.0
17:58 < xdanger> maintaining a couple of sites..
17:58 <@bwvoidfv> yeah.  there were several others on it yesterday (Crythias and Colin, also from the dev list)
17:59 <@bwvoidfv> they'll be on later.
17:59 < xdanger> ok
17:59 <@bwvoidfv> what timezone/country are you in
17:59 < xdanger> just have to say that I really like wg
17:59 < xdanger> finland
17:59 <@bwvoidfv> i like it too.  most of the time. :)
18:00 < xdanger> yeah =)
18:00 <@bwvoidfv> is web hosting your primary job
18:00 < xdanger> I was just wonderin the reason for the removal of If macro... I use it on every my sites..
18:01 <@bwvoidfv> merely to reduce plainblack support costs.  The If macro is too flexible/capable to be secure/reliable (supportable).
18:02 <@bwvoidfv> so now it's been demoted to a 'contribution' :)
18:02 < xdanger> well My two companies are in a middle of reorganization... my old company is going to shutdown and I'm transfering my "stuff" to the new company that we put up last year..
18:03 <@bwvoidfv> ah.
18:03 < xdanger> mainly we are a hosting/websolutions company, but we do webpages and graphics..
18:04 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui
18:04 <@bwvoidfv> welcome crythias.
18:04 < crythias> hello
18:04 <@bwvoidfv> xdanger: do you use the WRE
18:05 < xdanger> bwvoidfv: nope, we have our own "hoster" based on debian/ldap/postgresql
18:06 < xdanger> mainly the reason I don't like the WRE is that I trust the debian security team to keep our software up to date..
18:06 <@bwvoidfv> ah.
18:06 <@bwvoidfv> do you use mod_perl?  what version of webgui?
18:06 < xdanger> currently 6.7.7
18:07 < xdanger> and yes mod_perl since 6.0
18:07 <@bwvoidfv> mod_perl 1 or 2 ? :)
18:07 < xdanger> I've been using perl apps quite long time, so that was my biggest criterion
18:08 < xdanger> 2
18:08 <@bwvoidfv> oh.  i'm glad you're in the community.
18:09 < xdanger> almost all our software is from debian sarge, so I'm not quite happy about 6.8 requiring mysql 5 and mod_perl2 2.0.x (? debian has 1.999-something..)
18:10 <@bwvoidfv> it doesn't actually required 5; just 4.1.
18:10 < xdanger> I know =)
18:11 <@bwvoidfv> but yeah, mod_perl2.0.2 and latest libapreq2 are required
18:11 < xdanger> but I belive that 4.1 subquerys are a bit kind of hack =)
18:11 <@bwvoidfv> i introduced the first subqueries into the core codebase....
18:11 <@bwvoidfv> they were necessary to solve data integrety issues b/c of the way certain things were designed with the versioning system.
18:12 <@bwvoidfv> in other words, things in 6.7 might return bad data sometimes.
18:12 <@bwvoidfv> on rare occasions.
18:12 < xdanger> I think I'm going to sit on 6.7 until 6.9 or maybe 7.0... but that dependences on our customers..
18:12 <@bwvoidfv> I would highly recommend that.
18:13 < xdanger> I know, I reported the issue with collaboration reporting random revision based order =)
18:13 <@bwvoidfv> ah.  on the support boards or on sourceforge?  
18:14 < xdanger> I've backported your changes to collaboration system to 6.7 ;)
18:14 <@bwvoidfv> oh, good. :)  
18:14 < xdanger> I have a modified collaboration system in use that allows different kinda listings...
18:15 < xdanger> http://luovapaja.fi/taitajat
18:15 < xdanger> you can browse by the first letter or category on the right..
18:15 <@bwvoidfv> that's pretty speedy.
18:16 <@bwvoidfv> too bad I don't read whatever this language is.
18:16 < xdanger> finnish =)
18:17 <@bwvoidfv> nice css.
18:17 < xdanger> it's a local portal for ... creative people =)
18:19 < xdanger> our graphics guy does all the css/html also =)
18:19 < xdanger> his site: http://rook.fi/about.php
18:19 <@bwvoidfv> webgui 7.0 is going to have an entirely different look/feel for both the administration templates and the default templates.
18:20 < xdanger> and does some little cms-kind-of-hacks in php..
18:20 < xdanger> so I understood...
18:20 < xdanger> but I like the current admin templates =)
18:20 <@bwvoidfv> would you submit a screenshot/description of luovapaja.fi to http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/campaigns/sightings
18:20 < xdanger> well there's allways room for improvment =)
18:22 < xdanger> argh, my english is a bit rusty...
18:23 <@bwvoidfv> i'll edit it
18:23 < xdanger> I'm not concerned about that, just my speedy chat english =)
18:24 <@bwvoidfv> oh
18:25 < xdanger> I've also been thinking that we could be w3-finland, since we have done a bit of traslation and have some knowledge about wg =)
18:25 < xdanger> have had a mail to jt/plainblack on my todo list for a long time but never got around to it..
18:26 <@bwvoidfv> speaking of which...
18:26 <@bwvoidfv> looks like ^W3 macro is broken.
18:26 <@bwvoidfv> at http://www.plainblack.com/w3
18:26 < crythias> darn W3 macro.
18:26 < crythias> heh :) somebody didn't read the gotcha :)
18:27 <@bwvoidfv> lol
18:27 < xdanger> =D
18:27 <@bwvoidfv> you can fill out the form http://www.plainblack.com/w3/application
18:28 < xdanger> mayby someday in the near future..
18:29 < crythias> BADREDR
18:29 <@bwvoidfv> xdanger: (yesterday crythias and I were playing the "who can type the funniest license plate" game)
18:30 < crythias> I win, of course.
18:30 <@bwvoidfv> SAYSWHO
18:30 < crythias> ISAIDSO
18:30 < crythias> THATS Y
18:31 <@bwvoidfv> do you have custom vehicle plates in finland?
18:31 < xdanger> some sites that are unfinnished: http://tnnet.axxion.fi/ http://dp.axxion.fi/ (that one's layout and structure has been messed up by the customer =))
18:31 < xdanger> yes, but in the form on xxx-111
18:31 < crythias> It's in Finland. They're all finnish'd :)
18:31 < xdanger> eh :)
18:31 <@bwvoidfv> unfinished
18:32 <@bwvoidfv> ha
18:32 <@bwvoidfv> those are very pretty.
18:32 < xdanger> damn irssi doesn't have a spellchecker =)
18:32 <@bwvoidfv> please put them on sightings?
18:32 <@bwvoidfv> or i'll order crythias to.
18:33 < xdanger> and the "forever" (in the spirit of duke nukem forever) site project, our own: http://beta.axxion.fi/
18:33 < xdanger> our "mascot" axi: http://beta.axxion.fi/axi
18:33 < crythias> UORDRHU ?
18:34 <@bwvoidfv> LSTNHERE
18:34 <@bwvoidfv> UJOKE
18:34 < xdanger> xxx-1 was owned by a local pornstar ;)
18:34 < crythias> DNT MK ME
18:34 <@bwvoidfv> MKMYDAY
18:35 < crythias> MNY SPNT
18:35 <@bwvoidfv> 1DOL WHR
18:35 < crythias> Who's lonki_home?
18:35 <@bwvoidfv> Hans Wolters
18:36 < crythias> Hiya, Hans!
18:36 <@bwvoidfv> he left it on for the evening (he went home)
18:36 <@bwvoidfv> hence _home
18:36 < crythias> oh.
18:36 < crythias> Hiya, xdanger. I'm Gerald.
18:37 < xdanger> hi =)
18:38 < xdanger> I'll but those sites up on sightings when they are published for everyone to see =)
18:38 <@bwvoidfv> ok; yay.
18:41 -!- lenthamen [n=len@82-148-208-20.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #webgui
18:41 < crythias> hi
18:41 < lenthamen> howdy
18:42 <@bwvoidfv> welcome Len
18:42 < xdanger> hi
18:42 < lenthamen> Crythias have you seen my mail on apache process growth on FreeBSD ?
18:43 < crythias> yes
18:43 < crythias> I don't run so hard as you...
18:43 < crythias> probably not worth a sighup as much as a timed shutdown restart.
18:44 <@bwvoidfv> This was a well-known issue with mod_perl 1.x built using DSO.  I never 
18:44 <@bwvoidfv> use graceful restart because of this.  I thought 2.x got rid of this 
18:44 <@bwvoidfv> issue though.  You could try making a static build and see if that fixes 
18:44 <@bwvoidfv> it. 
18:44 <@bwvoidfv>  
18:44 <@bwvoidfv> - Perrin
18:44 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat051.mxim.com] has joined #webgui
18:44 <@bwvoidfv> welcome Colin
18:44 < perlDreamer> Hey, Matt!
18:44 < xdanger> just begining to fell like "I'm not worthy" 'cous I'm the only one who isn't a wg-developer here =)
18:45 < perlDreamer> so how about a quick round of introductions so we can connect a screen name to an email address?
18:46 < perlDreamer> y'all probably know me better as ckuskie@sterling.net, or colink
18:46  * bwvoidfv is Matthew Wilson, of Plainblack-dom.
18:46  * bwvoidfv is a.k.a. matthew@veradox.com
18:49 < xdanger> Just a user/admin from finland, only posted once on wg-dev, jukka.raimovaara@dlvisions.fi, but migrating to use @axxion.fi because business reorganization.
18:50 < xdanger> that should ve user/admin/fan =P
18:50 <@bwvoidfv> lonki_home is offline (_home)
18:54 < crythias> I'm Gerald. Ifoundthisemailonwebgui@gwy.org
18:54 < lenthamen> I'm Len. len@primaat.com from The Netherlands.
18:55  * crythias is tired of answering support calls.
18:56 < crythias> sorry. Been a bit under the weather.
18:57 < perlDreamer> not since that last storm...
18:59 < lenthamen> bwvoidfv: Building a static apache2 is not the solution for mod_perl leaking perl imho
19:01 <@bwvoidfv> oh
19:02 < lenthamen> xdanger what kind of site are you running ?
19:05 < xdanger> lenthamen: http://luovapaja.fi/ and unfinished: http://tnnet.axxion.fi/ http://dp.axxion.fi/ http://beta.axxion.fi/ and I've also helped with http://elker.fi/
19:07 < lenthamen> What a weird language that is :) Nice sites though.
19:08 < xdanger> lenthamen: we (Axxion Oy) are a webhosting/websolution provider, and what I brought with me to that company was webgui ;)
19:08 < xdanger> finnish =)
19:10 < crythias> wow. And I thought Japanese was bad with respect to more syllables=more polite :)
19:10 < crythias> Are they mostly compound words in Finnish?
19:11 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat051.mxim.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
19:11 < lenthamen> I think Finish is one of the rare European languages that has no connections to other languages.
19:11 < xdanger> I'ts a slavic language =)
19:12 < lenthamen> Yeah, it's like hungarian.
19:12 < xdanger> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_language
19:13 < xdanger> for all your questions ;)
19:13 < lenthamen> I'm going home guys. My workday is finished :) ttyl !
19:13 < crythias> l8rness
19:14 < xdanger> I am home...
19:14 <@bwvoidfv> I am home and at work.
19:14 < xdanger> it's 19:14 here..
19:14 < lenthamen> here 18:14
19:15 <@bwvoidfv> here 11:14
19:15 < crythias> 12.17
19:15 < xdanger> and i also work from home (since we don't have an office at the moment =))
19:16 < lenthamen> Are you in helsinki xdanger ?
19:16 < xdanger> finland, the land of linux and irc =)
19:16 < xdanger> lenthamen: no, in Jyväskylä.. Jyvaskyla if you don't include tha scandic letters
19:18 < xdanger> It's a town in center finland... about 85 000 people here..
19:18 < lenthamen> never heard of :) I'm 30 min. from Amsterdam.
19:18 < xdanger> this is something like 3h from helsinki...
19:19 < xdanger> if's -1.3°C, and snowing outside... beatifull...
19:20 < xdanger> last week it was -20 =)
19:21 < lenthamen> I know it can be cold out there ! They offer Snow Scooter Safaris to Finland here :)
19:23 -!- lenthamen [n=len@82-148-208-20.fiber.unet.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
19:32 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
19:33 < crythias> darn peer pressure
19:33 < crythias> Heya
19:33 < rizen> howdy
19:34 < rizen> who is bwvoidfv
19:34 <@bwvoidfv> me
19:34 < crythias> Matthew
19:34 < rizen> wow, everyone uses such strange names
19:34 < rizen> that i'm not familiar with
19:34 < rizen> except for gerald
19:34 < rizen> =)
19:34 < crythias> heh
19:35 -!- crythias is now known as doanbehayten
19:35 <@bwvoidfv> where did perlDreamer go
19:35 < doanbehayten> dropped
19:35 -!- doanbehayten is now known as crythias
19:36 -!- bwvoidfv is now known as makinMoneyForThe
19:36 <@makinMoneyForThe> oops
19:36 -!- makinMoneyForThe is now known as pbMoneyPrinter
19:36 < crythias> heh
19:37 < crythias> so, matt, you fix that nasty bug I sent ya?
19:37 <@pbMoneyPrinter> uh; which one
19:37 < crythias> the one that turns all images to nasty wmfs
19:38 <@pbMoneyPrinter> yeah, i had to remove that back door that's been in webgui since 6.1.1
19:39 <@pbMoneyPrinter> j/k
19:39 < crythias> I heard that there is a built-in backdoor JTH4X
19:40 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #webgui []
19:41 -!- pbMoneyPrinter is now known as hallMonitor
19:43  * crythias has a pass
19:51  * hallMonitor revokes crythias' pass.
19:51  * crythias leaves a trail of yellow back to his classroom.
19:53 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
19:54 < rizen> gerald
19:54 < crythias> yes
19:54 < rizen> what's your email address?
19:54 < crythias> me@gwy.org
19:55 < crythias> btw: JT, apologies.
19:55 < rizen> i'm bestowing upon you a great honor
19:56 < rizen> and i hope you'll accept
19:56 -!- macOnki [n=hanswolt@lonki.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui
19:56 < macOnki> hi
19:56 < rizen> We're starting a new Spread WebGUI campaign today
19:56 <@hallMonitor> hello macOnki
19:56 < rizen> it's called the People Behind WebGUI
19:56 -!- hallMonitor is now known as mdawg
19:56 < crythias> OK.
19:56 < rizen> it's basically just an interview with people who contribute a lot to the webgui world
19:57 < rizen> You are among the first to be interviewed
19:57 < rizen> The other two to start out the process with you are Len and Colin
19:57 < crythias> Sure. Thanks. I'll do right by yeh.
19:57 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat050.mxim.com] has joined #webgui
19:57 < rizen> You should now have the email with the list of questions.
19:57 < macOnki> for those of you who do not know me, I'm Hans Wolters  :-)
19:57 < rizen> Hi Hans
19:57 < macOnki> hi rizen
19:57 < rizen> /whois
19:57 < rizen> hmmm
19:57 < macOnki> I know
19:58 < perlDreamer> rizen: matt mentioned that you wanted to talk to me?
19:58 <@mdawg> oh... lonki is your work login
19:58 <@mdawg> perlDreamer=Colin
19:58 < macOnki> mdawg, yes
19:58 < rizen> Yes Colin
19:59 < rizen> I'm going to tell you what I just told Gerald
19:59 < rizen> but first, what's your email address?
19:59 < perlDreamer> ckuskie@sterling.net
19:59 < rizen> ah yes
19:59 < rizen> that's right
19:59 -!- mode/#webgui [+o crythias] by mdawg
19:59 <@mdawg> be back in a bit.
19:59 < rizen> We're starting a new Spread WebGUI Campaign today
20:00 < rizen> It's called the "People Behind WebGUI"
20:00 < rizen> It's basically an interview with people that make the webgui community work
20:00 < rizen> the first three that have been selected for interview are You, Gerald, and Len
20:00 < rizen> I've just emmailed you the questions
20:00 < rizen> for the interview
20:00 < rizen> I hope that you'll accept this interview
20:01 < rizen> and agree to be in the listing
20:01 < rizen> The idea behind this is to give WebGUI a human element
20:01 < rizen> Right now, people really don't know much about us
20:01 < rizen> the people that make WebGUI live
20:01 < rizen> I think that should change
20:02 < rizen> So that's where this idea comes in.
20:02 < perlDreamer> Did you know that WebGUI was in the first issue of Open Source Enterprise magazine?
20:02 < perlDreamer> (I think that was the name)
20:02 < rizen> no i didn't
20:02 < rizen> Did you do that?
20:02 < perlDreamer> No.
20:03 < rizen> Anyway, once per month from here on out we're going to send out this list of questions to people in the community who we think should be in the spotlight
20:03 < rizen> But initially, we're going to put up 3 so there's some good starting content
20:03 -!- mdawg is now known as mdawg_atLunch
20:03 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by crythias
20:04 -!- mode/#webgui [+o perlDreamer] by crythias
20:04 -!- crythias changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI CMS ... and more | www.plainblack.com
20:04 <@perlDreamer> okay, I gotta ask.  What is "mode +o"?
20:04 <@perlDreamer> I accept the invite to the interview.  When would you like answers back?
20:05 <@rizen> the sooner the better
20:06 <@crythias> mode +o is operator of channel
20:07 <@crythias> it allows control of moderation, addition of other ops, and ability to /kick users
20:18 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit ["User disconnected"]
20:55 -!- mdawg_atLunch is now known as mdawg
20:57 <@mdawg> hello room
20:57 < macOnki> hi
21:00 <@crythias> hi
21:04 <@crythias> wow.
21:04 <@mdawg> ?
21:05 < macOnki> if you say wow now already then wait until this channel has 400 visitors daily :-)
21:05 <@crythias> I didn't know the government obscured planting explosives in the WTC and ignored a coordinated effort to simultaneously explode plus crash planes into them.
21:06 <@crythias> the things you learn in comments on digg.
21:06 < macOnki> well, it's not my government :-)
21:07 <@mdawg> nor mine.
21:07 <@mdawg> regardless of how hard it tries to be.
21:07 <@perlDreamer> you may not like it, but it's still your government
21:08 <@crythias> yeah. 
21:08 -!- crythias was kicked from #webgui by mdawg [for straying off topic]
21:08 < macOnki> could you all clear me on how webgui validates user input b.t.w?
21:08 <@perlDreamer> like where?
21:08 <@perlDreamer> in an asset?
21:08 < macOnki> well, in the forms for example
21:08 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui
21:08 < crythias> you're funny
21:08 -!- mode/#webgui [+o crythias] by mdawg
21:08 <@perlDreamer> some form types validate input based on type
21:09 <@perlDreamer> like dates, integers, etc.
21:09 < macOnki> I know, I submitted the XSS bug
21:09 <@perlDreamer> most however, just take what they're given and hand it back to whomever embedded the form
21:09 <@perlDreamer> like an asset.
21:09 <@perlDreamer> It has to be done that way, because the form element itself has no idea what it's input would be used for.
21:10 < macOnki> but there only seems to be no internal validation on the type, only client side checking with javascript, I hope I am wrong
21:10 <@perlDreamer> Again, it depends on what's using the form element
21:11 <@perlDreamer> A forum post isn't validated, but when it is displayed it may be washed through one of the filters for removing macros, or javascript, or more (or less)
21:11 < macOnki> hmmm, yuk
21:11 <@mdawg> why yuk
21:12 < macOnki> when the admin wants an integer value it should be checked before you store it in a database imho
21:12 < macOnki> it could even be typecasted probably
21:13 <@perlDreamer> In each form in lib/WebGUI/Form/*.pm, look for a subroutine called getValueFromPost
21:13 <@perlDreamer> if there's any form based validation, it would be done in there.
21:13 < macOnki> hmm, ok
21:13 <@perlDreamer> Here's the one from Form/Integer.pm, for example:
21:13 <@perlDreamer> sub getValueFromPost {
21:13 <@perlDreamer>         my $self = shift;
21:13 <@perlDreamer>         my $value = $session{req}->param($self->{name});
21:13 <@perlDreamer>         if ($value =~ /^[\d\-]+$/) {
21:13 <@perlDreamer>                 return $value;
21:13 <@perlDreamer>         }
21:13 <@perlDreamer>         return 0;
21:13 <@perlDreamer> }
21:14 <@mdawg> onki: are you talking about the DataForm wobject?  or writing custom assets?  or user profile fields?
21:14 < macOnki> currently it is possible to enter js into both the text and the url field
21:14 <@perlDreamer> You could try writing a bunch of tests to see what you can shove into the Forms, but that would require mocking up Apache::Request objects.
21:14 < macOnki> mdawg, yes
21:14 <@mdawg> which one
21:14 < macOnki> the default form generator, and the default contact form
21:15 < macOnki> see the bug entry and the mailing list today
21:15 < macOnki> or yesterday for you maybe
21:16 <@mdawg> okay, so DataForm.
21:16 <@mdawg> not user profile fields or custom assets.
21:16 < macOnki> no
21:16 < macOnki> indeed the DataForm
21:17 <@mdawg> perlDreamer - he's not talking about the api, just an existing core wobject.
21:17 <@perlDreamer> I know.
21:18 <@perlDreamer> maybe the best thing to do would be to build an option into the base text form element so that you could pass it a filter.
21:18 <@mdawg> what onki is suggesting, then, is filtering dataform submissions for javascript, which isn't currently done.
21:18 < macOnki> perlDreamer, that would be a good idea 
21:18 <@perlDreamer> but what he's talking about isn't limited to the DataForm, it applies to anywhere a Text like form element is used and not checked.
21:18 < macOnki> eeks
21:19 <@perlDreamer> that's right
21:19 <@perlDreamer> anywhere
21:19 <@mdawg> but imo those should be handled on a case-by-case basis, leaving the api as is
21:19 < macOnki> that will give some serious problems in the future
21:20 <@mdawg> well, every form control should have a filter callback coderef then...?
21:20 <@perlDreamer> Some of them already filter in their getValueFromPost subroutines.
21:20 <@perlDreamer> it's just that general purpose things, like Text, don't
21:21 < macOnki> b.t.w. I already mailed JT about a more serious bug, it is possible to missuse the noCache param in the GET values to look at the saved data as a visitor (data shown by the list all entries), even if normally only the admin can see it
21:22 < macOnki> Together with the XSS bugs it would be possible to send someone the noCache param en give them reading access to that data
21:23 <@mdawg> ah.  that's b/c someone forgot to put security checking in DataForm's view() method.
21:23 <@perlDreamer> you'd have to set up filtering on a per field basis then.
21:23 < macOnki> might be, havn't looked at how the code handles that
21:24 <@perlDreamer> and migrate all existing DataForms via an update script.
21:24 < macOnki> brb
21:28 < macOnki> re
21:38 <@perlDreamer> so I've been doing some thinking about where else the XSS might pop up
21:38 <@perlDreamer> there are all assets
21:39 <@perlDreamer> File, Image, Event
21:39 < macOnki> I will do some additional testing tonight
21:41 < macOnki> or tomorrow
21:41 <@perlDreamer> you're in Finland?
21:41 < macOnki> no, the Netherlands
21:42 <@mdawg> xdanger is in finland.
21:42 <@perlDreamer> similar time zone.  It's almost tomorrow for y'all anyway :)
21:42 < macOnki> :-)
21:42 <@crythias> still getting more hits for my pcanywhere dynamic IP stuff than my free norton antivirus getter.
21:42 <@mdawg> crythias: oddness.
21:42 <@mdawg> crythias: stay on topic. ;)
21:42 <@crythias> oh, yeah.
21:43 <@mdawg> or change the topic listed. :-D
21:43 <@crythias> this is my and more.
21:43 <@mdawg> oh, right.
21:43 <@mdawg> gotcha.
21:44 <@crythias> WGNODOX
21:44 <@mdawg> hey :p
21:44 <@crythias> PA4SPRT
21:45 <@mdawg> WGTSTLSS
21:45 < macOnki> so, you are all working on webgui fulltime? :-)
21:45 <@mdawg> no, goofing off fulltime.
21:45 <@mdawg> :p
21:45 < macOnki> hehe
21:45 <@crythias> hardly working.
21:45 <@mdawg> barely working.
21:45 <@mdawg> colin: merely working
21:45 <@crythias> MODPRL2
21:45 <@mdawg> jt: just working
21:46 <@mdawg> xdanger: you still there?
21:46 <@crythias> I'm not so much a programmer of WebGUI as one who tries to provide free support.
21:46 <@crythias> MDAWG
21:47 <@crythias> PRLDRMR
21:47 <@mdawg> WREWG
21:47 < macOnki> WTF ?
21:47 <@mdawg> funny custom license plate/tag contest.
21:47 <@crythias> webgui runtime envirunment webgui?
21:47 -!- mike_s [n=mike@s205-206-123-62.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #webgui
21:47 <@mdawg> welcome mike.
21:47 <@crythias> RUGUI?
21:48 <@perlDreamer> GOT GUI?
21:48 < mike_s> thx mdawg -- thought i'd come see the hub bub... ;)
21:48 <@crythias> 2GUI2^C
21:48 <@mdawg> mike: we're a little offtopic currently (funny custom license plate/tag contest).
21:48 < mike_s> anybody drag JT onto here yet?
21:48 <@crythias> he's been
21:48 <@mdawg> yeah for a minute.
21:48 <@perlDreamer> he was here earlier
21:49 <@crythias> then we bother him with all sorts of nonsense about his involvement in perl conspiracies and... 
21:49 -!- crythias was kicked from #webgui by crythias [stop rambling]
21:49 < mike_s> lol -- ya -- he is really tolerant about that kind of thing... 
21:49 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui
21:49 <@perlDreamer> macOnki: daytime, I'm a chip designer.  nightTime I'm a WebGUI documenter/tester/hacker
21:50 -!- mode/#webgui [+o crythias] by mdawg
21:50 < macOnki> ah, sounds nice
21:50 <@mdawg> between day and night, he is a husband/father/webmaster.
21:50 <@perlDreamer> tuba player
21:51 <@crythias> my wife plays flute and I play YuGiOh...
21:51 < macOnki> *g*
21:51 <@mdawg> my wife plays french horn & piano.  i play nylonstring guitar.
21:51 <@crythias> not exactly something that should be said in the same sentence. I suppose...
21:52 -!- mode/#webgui [+o macOnki] by mdawg
21:52 -!- mode/#webgui [+o mike_s] by mdawg
21:52 <@macOnki> dirty minds all think the same
21:52 <@perlDreamer> Suit her up and ship her out west.  We could use a good french horn player in orchestra.
21:52 <@macOnki> ow guys, do me a favor, do not op me, been one for 5 years at #php
21:52 <@mike_s> so have any of you tried out the dashboard yet?
21:52 -!- mode/#webgui [-o macOnki] by mdawg
21:52 < macOnki> thanks
21:53 < macOnki> give that to the webgui hackers :-)
21:53 <@mdawg> i'm afraid i'm the chump who wrote the thing (dashboard).
21:53 <@mike_s> hey !!! love it man
21:53 <@mike_s> very nice job mdawg
21:54 <@mdawg> gee thanks; i appreciate the appreciation.
21:54 < macOnki> mdawg, what inspired you? macosx?
21:54 <@crythias> Slacker can't fix real bugs.
21:54 <@mike_s> when i last chatted with JT sounded like not taht many people *getting* it yet
21:54 <@perlDreamer> not many using 6.8 yet
21:54 <@mdawg> the specs inspired me.  Steve (plainblack's designer) admits to being influenced by macosx's titlebars/buttons.
21:55 <@mdawg> he did the colors/buttons.
21:55 < macOnki> ah, ok
21:55 <@mdawg> crythias: "Slacker can't fix real bugs."?
21:56 <@mdawg> LAYDOWN
21:56 <@perlDreamer> it's much more fun to make them than fix them
21:57 <@mdawg> I doubt anyone's actually seen the dashboard in action (besides you, mike), and the handful of people who have access to plainblack.com/clients
21:57 <@mike_s> it's working pretty well in my tests
21:57 <@mike_s> still working out the auto-refresh
21:57 <@mdawg> by handful, I mean, compared to the scores of people who visit the rest of plainblack.com
21:58 <@mike_s> and getting some fatal errors with Cahrt Director edits - but not sure how to tell if that is due to CHartDirector or to dashboard
21:58 <@mdawg> i've never used chart director.
21:59 <@mike_s> y - 3rd party wobject that we paid PB to updte for 6.7|8
21:59 <@mike_s> but very nice in the dashboard context with autorefreshing graphs
21:59 <@crythias> DOWNBOY
21:59 <@mdawg> that's neat.  i'd like to see it sometime
22:00 <@crythias> ChartDirector is nice
22:01 <@mike_s> here ya go - i just made it visible to everyone for the moment... http://dev4.dwvpn.net/mydashboard
22:02 <@perlDreamer> headin' out to lunch.  catch you guys later
22:02 -!- perlDreamer is now known as perlDreamer_lunc
22:03 <@mdawg> cool; that's fast.
22:03 <@mdawg> the refresh I mean.
22:03 <@mdawg> can't even tell it's occurring unless i watch the http headers.
22:04 <@mike_s> anyhow - good framework that should mature over next while...
22:04 <@mdawg> yeah
22:05 <@mdawg> did JT mention to the the extensibility/plugin potential?
22:05 <@mdawg> to you
22:05 <@mike_s> no....  :)  care to tell me?
22:06 <@mdawg> New Dashlet containers (similar to Shortcut's functionality) can be created to hold/import any of the existing dashlet frameworks out there (Microsoft's gadgets, google's homepage dashlets, apple's desktop objects, yahoo's homepage dashlets).
22:06 <@mdawg> there are tens of thousands of those dashlet thingies out there for the various frameworks.
22:07 <@mdawg> Apple's being the best and most extensive.
22:07 <@mike_s> very cool -- would be very attractive to those wanting to create consolidated dashboards
22:07 <@mike_s> could even see someone creating a mydashboard.com kind of site...
22:08  * mdawg scurries off to check if mydashboard.com is taken
22:08 <@mike_s> lol - me too
22:09 <@mike_s> gone
22:09 <@mike_s> although superdashboard.com would work....
22:09 <@mike_s> just pay me a commission if you do it... ;)
22:13 <@crythias> D4SHB04RD.COM is available
22:13 <@crythias> of course nobody would be able to type it.
22:14 <@mdawg> mike - i watched the paper napkin ads
22:14 <@mdawg> some time ago
22:14 <@crythias> dashboardlive.com
22:15 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
22:15 <@crythias> hello
22:15 < rizen> holy crap balls and stuff
22:15 < rizen> there's a lot of people on here
22:15 <@crythias> most are sleeping.
22:15 < macOnki> not true :-)
22:15 <@crythias> I can actually get h3110.com
22:16 -!- mdawg is now known as FranksWGSlave
22:16 <@mike_s> guess i can't mock jt anymore... 
22:16 <@crythias> heh
22:16 < rizen> as it should be matt
22:16 <@crythias> this is all Colin's fault.
22:16 < rizen> why can't you mock me anymore?
22:16 < rizen> i'm totally mockable
22:16 <@mike_s> mdawg - what did you think of the napkins?
22:17 <@FranksWGSlave> well done.  very professional.
22:17 <@mike_s> it was fun to do -- and it is pretty much what i would do sitting down with someone anyhow - 
22:17 <@mike_s> jt -- i like the pluggable dashlet idea... very cool
22:17 < rizen> why are we talking about napkins?
22:18 < rizen> which pluggable dashlet idea?
22:18 -!- crythias changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI CMS ... and more | www.plainblack.com | napkin friendly!
22:18 < rizen> the one where we use other people's dashlets?
22:18 <@mike_s> yes!
22:19 < rizen> matt and i each came up with it independently...so it must be a good idea
22:19 <@mike_s> u do that and we're al lgonna go setup a dahsboard consolidation site and make a gazillion dollars
22:19 <@FranksWGSlave> now *that* was not my idea.
22:19 <@FranksWGSlave> the dashboard consolidation site.
22:20 < rizen> mike, what makes you think that i would allow you to do that
22:20 < rizen> did you read the fine print of WebGUI's license?
22:20 <@mike_s> lol - cuz you'd get a cut?
22:20 < rizen> yup
22:20 < rizen> it's actually the GBL not the GPL
22:20 < rizen> and it says that 50% of all money that exchanges hands related to or directly through webgui
22:21 < rizen> shall be put directly into jt's back pocket
22:21 <@mike_s> what a deal!
22:21  * crythias starts polishing forks.
22:21 < rizen> =)
22:21  * FranksWGSlave puts the nose to the grindstone
22:21  * macOnki logs into the server, sudo rm -rf /data (there, that will save the company a lot :-)
22:22 <@crythias> hrm... server runs much faster.. and doubled its capacity!
22:22 <@mike_s> and no more of that non-standard /data stuff... ;)
22:22 <@crythias> hee
22:22 < macOnki> hehe
22:22 < rizen> that's right mike
22:23 < rizen> because you love your
22:23 < rizen> /usr/local/web/webgui directory
22:23 <@crythias> oh. wait. what's this? don't rm across filesystems?
22:23 < rizen> and your sites called
22:23 < rizen> somerandomname
22:23 <@mike_s> lol -- just a little sensitive?? 
22:23 < rizen> with a config file called sm_rand-name43
22:23 < rizen> =)
22:23 < rizen> no, just saying you've got no room to talk when it comes to "non-standard"
22:24 <@mike_s> ya - well we outsourced all that to you now -- enjoy rejecting our reality and substituting your own... 
22:24 <@FranksWGSlave> WIFEBTR
22:24 < rizen> indeed
22:24 < rizen> so who created this channel?
22:24 < rizen> was it matt?
22:24 < rizen> and what is it here for?
22:25  * FranksWGSlave looks around
22:25 < rizen> what are we accomplishing?
22:25 <@mike_s> bonding without the beer so far...
22:25 < rizen> i c
22:25 <@crythias> I created the channel
22:25 <@FranksWGSlave> well, very late last night crythias and I were having a funny license plate contest
22:26 <@crythias> but it was Colin's idea
22:26 <@FranksWGSlave> hence random msgs like 'WIFEBTR'
22:27 <@crythias> WTHSTPD
22:27 < rizen> besides each of you being members of the webgui community
22:27 < rizen> what does this have to do with webgui?
22:27 <@mike_s> i learned about hte dashboard plugin idea.... :)
22:27 < rizen> ok.....but
22:27 < rizen> i guess what i'm trying to figure out is
22:28 < rizen> is this a permanent thing
22:28 < rizen> and what's it's function
22:28 <@crythias> it's cool for at least a few of us developer types  to collaborate
22:28 < rizen> entertainment?
22:28 < rizen> support?
22:28 < rizen> dev discussion?
22:28 < rizen> ok
22:28 < rizen> so it's a "whatever comes up"
22:28 < rizen> kind of place
22:29 <@FranksWGSlave> isIn($entertainment,@okayThings)?1:0
22:29 < rizen> /help
22:29 < rizen> hmmm...this irc client doesn't seem to support commands
22:30 <@crythias> didn't think that was irc client's fault
22:30 < macOnki> rizen, what client are you using?
22:30 <@FranksWGSlave> Fire
22:30 < rizen> yeah, i'm using fire
22:30 < rizen> it's actually an im client
22:30 < rizen> with irc built in
22:31 < rizen> i didn't expect it to be fully functional
22:31 < macOnki> try xchat aqua if you are on osx
22:31 <@crythias> I'm using gaim.
22:31 < rizen> but i figured that commands should work
22:31 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by crythias
22:33 <@rizen> whoa
22:33 <@rizen> now that i've been granted op status
22:33 <@rizen> i get right click options on people
22:33 -!- mode/#webgui [-o mike_s] by rizen
22:34 < mike_s> lol
22:34 -!- mode/#webgui [+o macOnki] by rizen
22:34 -!- mode/#webgui [+v mike_s] by rizen
22:34 -!- mode/#webgui [+v macOnki] by rizen
22:34 <@FranksWGSlave> macOnki doesn't want to be op
22:34 -!- mode/#webgui [-o macOnki] by rizen
22:34 <+macOnki> thanks
22:34 <@rizen> what is "Voice"
22:34 <@FranksWGSlave> i dunno
22:34 <@rizen> mike_s has been voiced
22:34 <@crythias> think it means can speak in moderated channel
22:34 <@rizen> it's been a thousand years since i've used irc
22:35 <+macOnki> crythias, it is
22:35 -!- mode/#webgui [-v macOnki] by rizen
22:35 -!- mode/#webgui [-v mike_s] by rizen
22:35 -!- mode/#webgui [+o mike_s] by rizen
22:35  * FranksWGSlave scurries off to write an ajax irc client wobject in his spare time
22:35 <@crythias> You work for plainblack.com. You don't have spare time.
22:35  * FranksWGSlave loves issuing vaporware announcements
22:36 < macOnki> b.t.w. did Len already visit this channel? we seem to live in the same city
22:36 <@FranksWGSlave> yes for an hour or two earlier today.
22:37 < macOnki> hmm, must have missed that
22:38 <@FranksWGSlave> HALFEYE
22:38 -!- mode/#webgui [+m] by crythias
22:38 <@crythias> oops
22:38 -!- mode/#webgui [-m] by crythias
22:39 <@crythias> what's with the napkins?
22:40 -!- crythias changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI CMS ... and more | www.plainblack.com
22:40 <@FranksWGSlave> http://www.donorware.com/coffee
22:40 <@mike_s> it was just a way for us to educate folks on what we do...
22:41 -!- perlDreamer_lunc [n=ckuskie@nat050.mxim.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:41 <@crythias> it's fast
22:42 <@crythias> think i want some cherry cobbler, now
22:42 <@FranksWGSlave> -cobbler
22:43  * crythias smacks FranksWGSlave. Sicko.
22:43 <@FranksWGSlave> oh wait.  
22:43  * FranksWGSlave 's face turns red
22:45 <@crythias> I've heard of DonorWare .. I think.
22:45 <@rizen> mike, that's brilliant
22:45 <@mike_s> just a flash object in webgui
22:45 <@mike_s> some little powerpoint to flash converter
22:45 <@FranksWGSlave> rizen: hence the napkin references earlier.
22:46 <@mike_s> easy to update and maintain
22:46 <@mike_s> we've also started using wimpy player for embedding audio greetings on pages
22:47 <@rizen> that's not the brilliant part
22:47 <@rizen> the technology part of this is almost irrelavant
22:47 <@mike_s> lol - what part do you like?
22:47 <@rizen> the presentation (the napkins idea)
22:47 <@rizen> and the really dumbed down presentation
22:47 <@mike_s> i agree - we wanted to communicate to non-techies in a way they would feel comfortable with
22:47 <@rizen> giving real world examples
22:48 <@rizen> it's very well written
22:48 <@mike_s> took about 10 days to put it all together
22:49 <@rizen> brilliant
22:49 <@rizen> when 7.0 comes out i'll have to get my peeps to put together something similar
22:49 <@rizen> or perhaps i'll have to do it myself
22:49 <@crythias> OK. JT: why are dataforms not altering real tables?
22:49 <@mike_s> yep - something that targets mid-level managers
22:49 -!- crythias was kicked from #webgui by FranksWGSlave [for speaking blasphemy]
22:49 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui
22:50 < crythias> ??
22:50 <@rizen> matt...why did you kick him
22:50 <@FranksWGSlave> just playin'.
22:51 < crythias> I did finally pay for support... :)
22:51 -!- mode/#webgui [+o crythias] by FranksWGSlave
22:51 <@crythias> did I miss the answer?
22:51 <@rizen> am i missing something?
22:52 <@rizen> what does paying for support have to do with this question?
22:52 < macOnki> you see, this is why I didn't want ops :-) newbies always start kicking people :-)
22:52 -!- mode/#webgui [-o FranksWGSlave] by rizen
22:52 <@rizen> regardless
22:52 <@rizen> the answer is this:
22:52 <@rizen> allowing users to arbitrarily modify database tables
22:52 <@rizen> is DANGEROUS
22:53 < macOnki> unless it are heap tables;
22:53 <@rizen> that's why the tables are simulated for the dataform
22:53 <@crythias> well, how much more dangerous than killing a field?
22:53 <@rizen> what i want to do is eventually replace the dataform
22:54 <@rizen> i could care less what users do with their data in the dataform
22:54 <@rizen> yeah, they can delete fields or whatever
22:54 <@rizen> that's not why it's dangerous
22:54 <@crythias> but if you create a table for a dataform, let that be the same deal.
22:54 <@rizen> what's dangerous is allowing users to go around creating tables in the webgui database
22:54 <@rizen> deleting tables in the webgui database
22:54 <@rizen> or modifying tables in the webgui database
22:54 <@crythias> but they wouldn't have any more rome than you'd give them.
22:55 <@crythias> rome:roam
22:55 <@crythias> New dataform: new table
22:55 <@mike_s> crythias -- are you needing more regular looking tables for reporting?  would views in MySQL 5 address the need?
22:55 < macOnki> what would be a good idea is to use levels with access granted, visitors only need select, insert, update
22:55 <@rizen> not exactly true
22:55 <@rizen> but regardless
22:55 < macOnki> users could have more rights
22:55 <@rizen> in the old days
22:55 <@rizen> i was trying to make webgui database agnostic
22:55 <@rizen> and as such
22:56 <@rizen> create/drop/alter syntax is different from database to database
22:56 <@rizen> so that was another reason
22:56 <@crythias> that I understand.
22:56 <@rizen> it doesn't much matter anymore though
22:56 <@rizen> because dataform is dead
22:56 <@crythias> but queries on dataforms stink.
22:56 <@rizen> no new features will be added to it until it is replaced
22:56 -!- lenthamen [n=len@83.116.130.37] has joined #webgui
22:56 <@rizen> dataform will be replaced with a new asset that will allow you to create actual databases
22:57 <@rizen> it will work like ms access
22:57 <@crythias> dbs or just tables?
22:57 <@rizen> it will allow you to add multiple tables
22:57 <@rizen> structure the workflow of the application
22:57 <@rizen> design user interfaces
22:57 <@rizen> and reports
22:57 <@rizen> etc
22:57 <@rizen> databases
22:57 <@rizen> not tables
22:57 -!- mode/#webgui [+o FranksWGSlave] by crythias
22:58 -!- mode/#webgui [-o FranksWGSlave] by rizen
22:58 -!- mode/#webgui [-o crythias] by rizen
22:58 <@rizen> you should have never promoted me
22:58 <@rizen> i've now taken control of your channel
22:58 < macOnki> rizen, that will not allow us to host more then one customer on a single machine, if you grant users the rights to create databases then you might as well give them the database root privs
22:59 <@rizen> not true
22:59 <@rizen> they can't create databases
22:59 <@rizen> ok i stated that wrong to begin with
22:59 < macOnki> ok, 
22:59 <@rizen> they can create  a database asset
22:59 <@rizen> on the back end
22:59 <@rizen> i don't know how it will work
23:00 <@rizen> there are 3 options currently
23:00 <@rizen> a) a database must be pre-created for them by an admin
23:00 <@rizen> b) a prefix will be used like db_userdb_usertable
23:01 <@rizen> which will create "virtual" databases
23:01 <@rizen> c) users that have the appropriate admin rights will be able to create physical databases
23:01 <@rizen> the database asset will be then bound to one of those backends
23:02 <@rizen> so from the user's point of view
23:02 <@rizen> they have their own database to work from
23:02 < macOnki> well, looking at it as the security guy c is not an option I think
23:02 <@rizen> maybe, maybe not
23:02 <@rizen> i'm not ruling anything out yet
23:02 <@rizen> that's the advantage i get during design phase
23:02 <@rizen> all options are legal
23:03 < macOnki> hi lenthamen b.t.w., hans from piramide here
23:03 <@rizen> we let the real world work it's way in after we've had the opportunity to consider everything
23:04 < xdanger> you could use something like sqlite, and place the database in uploads =)
23:04 < lenthamen> hello all.
23:04 < xdanger> yes, and hi from me too =)
23:04 <@rizen> excellent
23:04 <@rizen> soo now there are 4 options
23:04 <@rizen> =)
23:05 <@rizen> i hadn't considered that, but it's an excellent idea
23:05 < xdanger> that would allow versioning the data base ;)
23:05 <@mike_s> how's sqllite on an nfs mount for clustered environments?
23:06 <@rizen> just so everyone knows...this is a 7.x+++ discussion
23:06 <@rizen> no work will begin on this until much much later
23:06 <@rizen> that is, unless we get some big company to come along and pay for it's development
23:06 < FranksWGSlave> (unless 6.9, 7.0 are extremely well funded asap)
23:07 <@rizen> and there are a few companies who have already expressed interest
23:07 <@rizen> I think i really like the idea of SQL::Lite for this
23:07 <@rizen> i mean SQLLite
23:08 < FranksWGSlave> can you do queries joining the various database handlers
23:08 <@rizen> not that i'm ruling out anything, just moving one to the top
23:08 < FranksWGSlave> webgui db and a sqllite db
23:08 < xdanger> rizen: we also have a lot of intrest in crm & the dbasset you just described...
23:09 < xdanger> but we just don't have very much extra money =)
23:10 < FranksWGSlave> .... or would you copy the sqllite db's into mysql heap db's for such queries
23:10 < FranksWGSlave> .... or not allow such queries
23:11 <@mike_s> you'd need such queries -- just joins on username alone would be important i would think
23:11 <@rizen> i disagree
23:12 <@mike_s> so just do several queries and join in memory?
23:12 <@rizen> there's really no good info in the users table except username
23:12 <@rizen> you may need to get info from the user's profile, but we can provide scripting methods to get to that data if necessary
23:12 <@rizen> this is not meant to become an api to get into webgui's internals
23:12 < macOnki> b.t.w. did someone already start writing views, triggers, etc..?
23:13 < FranksWGSlave> rizen: ah.
23:13 <@rizen> but rather a mechanism for end users to create scalable web apps instead of locking their company into unscalable ms access apps
23:13 <@mike_s> i was asking re views for queries
23:13 < macOnki> havn't tested it yest on mysql 5, triggers do work though
23:14 <@mike_s> personally i like the idea of keeping the data in the webgui db via meta-data - whterh that is field by field or some other technique
23:14 <@mike_s> i'd have concerns about the scalability of SQL::Lite in uplods
23:15 <@mike_s> and use views to make the data more accessible for queries
23:15  * mike_s gets off my soap box
23:15 <@rizen> views don't help performance
23:16 <@rizen> part of the big deal with the dataform is that it doesn't scale
23:16 <@mike_s> no but - but views to dedicated mysql server vs multiple webgui nodes hitting sqllite on an nfs share...
23:16 <@rizen> oh
23:16 <@rizen> right
23:16 <@rizen> i'm not arguing that
23:16 < macOnki> what has been the reason to use strings as the primary key for tables?
23:16 <@rizen> it would need to be tested
23:17 <@rizen> strings?
23:17 < FranksWGSlave> macOnki: they're binary varchar
23:17 <@rizen> are you talking about guids?
23:17 < macOnki> and the reason was?
23:17 <@rizen> macOnki, are you talkinga bout the GUIDs?
23:18 <@rizen> global unique ids?
23:18 <@rizen> userId varchar(22) binary
23:18 < macOnki> rizen, the primary keys on the mysql tables
23:18 <@rizen> ok
23:18 <@rizen> they are GUIDs
23:18 <@rizen> they are strings because making them strings actually makes them unique across multiple servers
23:18 <@rizen> you can't do that with plain old integers
23:19  * mike_s is still looking forward to guids coming to play in exportable/syndicated packages
23:19 <@rizen> the advantage is that you can share content between multiple sites
23:19 < macOnki> rizen, hmm, what if you would use unsigned integers?
23:19 <@rizen> without having guids conflict
23:19 <@rizen> it's not about having a number of them
23:19 <@rizen> it's about having them not conflict
23:19 < macOnki> ok
23:19 <@rizen> encased int that 22 character string
23:19 < crythias> I like signing my content in the UID
23:20 <@rizen> is the date and time it was created
23:20 <@rizen> the sitename it was created on
23:20 <@rizen> and a random 9 digit integer
23:20 < macOnki> ok, that clears a lot for me
23:20 <@rizen> that keeps it unique
23:20 < macOnki> although I know it will be much faster if you would use integers
23:20 <@rizen> it would be faster
23:20 <@rizen> we used to use integers
23:21 <@rizen> but we've switched
23:21 < macOnki> but given the above I understand 
23:21 <@rizen> becauuse the power available to us is better
23:21 < macOnki> using increased cache and buffer size makes it a lot faster too
23:22 < macOnki> for mysql I mean
23:22 < lenthamen> I dont think mysql is the bottleneck for webgui :)
23:22 < macOnki> lenthamen, well, if you have the site you know we have it is :-)
23:23 < macOnki> dropping tables and recreating them doesn't do it any good
23:25 < macOnki> which is b.t.w. a problem, users who do not have enough knowledge of sql should not be allowed to use sql reports :(
23:28 < FranksWGSlave> varchar(22) binary (712 bits) is a MUCH larger space than an unsigned double float integer field could support (64 bits) (equivalent to BIT(64)).
23:28 <@mike_s> but doesn't that make a wel controlled meta-data implementation all the more importatant?
23:29 < macOnki> mike_s, imho it needs privs given within the database yes, I mentioned it before
23:29 < FranksWGSlave> oops nix float (floats aren't integers!) in my last msg.
23:32 < xdanger> just thought that sqlite_db could be cachet with filecache-kind-of consept for reads, and the cache flushed when write's a made... to help with scalability
23:33 < xdanger> but that would be quite complex, i think...
23:33 < macOnki> it will help, but not more then using the mysql query_cache 
23:33 < macOnki> I've seen sites hitting the IO only 1 out of 20
23:35 -!- FranksWGSlave is now known as mdawg
23:40 -!- mode/#webgui [+o crythias] by rizen
23:40 -!- mode/#webgui [+o mdawg] by rizen
23:42 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat050.mxim.com] has joined #webgui
23:42 -!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by rizen
23:47  * lenthamen is thinking about giving up on FreeBSD...
23:48 <+perlDreamer> lenthamen is wise
23:50 -!- snapcount [n=roy@64-193-14-144.dtb.clearwire-dns.net] has joined #webgui
23:51 < lenthamen> mdawg: Hows memory management on Windows ?
23:51 <@mdawg> welcome roy
23:51 < lenthamen> I might try that
23:51 < lenthamen> hehe
23:51 <@mdawg> uh; i dunno; i switched to centos
23:51 < snapcount> hey what's up guys
23:52 <@mdawg> you missed a DataForm replacement apocalypse
23:52 <+perlDreamer> where did that end up?
23:52 <@mdawg> with some varying exegeses
23:52 < lenthamen> It ended up in a discussion about GUIDs
23:53 <+perlDreamer> wow, from javascript form validation to GUIDs.
23:53 < macOnki> hehe
23:55 <@mdawg> bye crythias
23:57 <@crythias> buh bye
23:57 <@mdawg> BUHBYE
23:57 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has quit ["adios! see you later!"]
23:58  * mdawg is almost done downloading Vista December CTP (5270)
--- Day changed Wed Jan 04 2006
00:02 <@mdawg> it's getting late in Europe, isn't it?
00:03 < lenthamen> yep, I'm going offline. Its 23:00 here
00:03 < lenthamen> ttyl guys
00:03 -!- lenthamen [n=len@83.116.130.37] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]
00:03 <+perlDreamer> later len
00:06 <@mdawg> you arrived at a quiet point, snapcount
00:07 <@rizen> are you guys ready for apocalypse #2 for today?
00:07 <+perlDreamer> bring it on
00:07 <@rizen> len and i have been discussing changing webgui's output model
00:08 <@rizen> going more toward apache bucket brigade style of doing things
00:08 <@rizen> it ends up using less memory, processes faster, and most importantly
00:08 <@rizen> gives a percieved performance boost of over 300%
00:08 <@rizen> i say percieved because to the human eye it looks 300% faster
00:09 <@rizen> but in reality it's just about 20% faster
00:09 <@mike_s> is there a link explaining the concept?
00:09 <@rizen> there is, but i'm going to explain it
00:09 <@rizen> in webgui terms right now
00:09 <@rizen> the apache docs are very technical on this subject
00:09 <@rizen> in webgui right now
00:10 <@rizen> a page processes in its entirety before it gets returned to the browser
00:10 <@rizen> before any part of it gets returned
00:10 <@rizen> we do this because any page can cause a 302 redirect, which is in the http head
00:10 <@rizen> and because we need to be able to insert stuff into the <head> block
00:11 <@rizen> the problem with this is that there is a noticable lag between the click and the user getting any data back
00:11 <@rizen> it's not that webgui is slow, it's that webgui processes everything before rendering
00:11 <@rizen> server page languages don't work that way
00:11 <@rizen> they start spewing back as soon as they have content to spew
00:12 <@rizen> i've heard the arguement that webgui is slow compared to php apps
00:12 <@rizen> but it's not really, it's a perceived difference
00:12 <@rizen> not a real difference
00:12 <@rizen> anyway...here's what would change
00:12 <@rizen> there will be a new output class accessible through session
00:12 <@rizen> $session->output->content
00:12 <@rizen> $session->output->header
00:13 <@rizen> (oh yeah, this is the new session object model for those of you who aren't up to speed)
00:13 <@rizen> So assets will be responsible for outputing their own content
00:13 <@rizen> rather than returning it all back to the WebGUI content handler
00:14 <@rizen> i don't have all the details worked out yet, but here's the jist of how it will work
00:14 <@rizen> you make a request to the page
00:14 <@rizen> and the asset gets loaded
00:14 <@rizen> once in the www_ method
00:14 <@rizen> the following happen
00:14 <@rizen> determine if the asset can result in a redirect
00:14 <@rizen> if it can, process it like we do now
00:15 <@rizen> if it can't, send the http header
00:15 <@rizen> determine all the stuff the asset needs to add to the <head> block
00:15 <@rizen> process the style
00:15 <@rizen> process macros on the style
00:15 <@rizen> return the first half of the style
00:16 <@rizen> (everything before <tmpl_var body.content>
00:16 <@rizen> process the asset template
00:16 <@rizen> return the asset content
00:16 <@rizen> return the footer content
00:16 <@rizen> if it's a layout
00:16 <@rizen> which has multiple stages
00:16 <@rizen> then it will work a little differently
00:16 <@rizen> but that's ok, since the asset is responsible for printing it's own content
00:16 <@rizen> if it's a layout
00:17 <@rizen> we'll load up all the sub assets
00:17 <@rizen> get all the head block elements
00:17 <@rizen> then process the style
00:17 <@rizen> process macros on the style
00:17 <@rizen> print the style head
00:17 <@rizen> then process and return each asset in the page
00:17 <@rizen> independently
00:18 <@rizen> as they're rendered
00:18 <@rizen> processing macros on the contents of each one as they go by
00:18 <@rizen> and ultimately print out the style footer
00:18 <@rizen> it's more work for the asset developer to do it this way, by a little bit
00:19 <@rizen> but because we're dumping out buckets at a time
00:19 <@rizen> rather than the entire page contents
00:19 <@rizen> we're not using up as large of chunks of memory
00:19 <@rizen> which makes macro processing faster
00:19 <@rizen> because regex is recursive and uses big heaps
00:19 <@rizen> and most importantly
00:20 <@rizen> the user is seeing the page as it's rendered
00:20 <@rizen> rather than waiting to load anything
00:20 <@rizen> until everything is complete
00:20 <@mike_s> very cool -- any idea how this would be affected by table based layouts vs CSS div based layouts?
00:20 <@rizen> So what do you think?
00:20 <@rizen> won't make any difference
00:20 <@rizen> the layout template will be preprocessed
00:21 <@rizen> and in the space where we currently put asset loops
00:21 <@rizen> we'll just put some sort of a delimiter
00:21 <@rizen> that we can split on
00:21 <@rizen> so that we can chunk the contents of the page layout
00:21 <@rizen> back to the browser
00:21 <@rizen> i doubt it will even change the page layout templates
00:21 <@rizen> it will just change the backend processing a little
00:22 <@mike_s> k- that's that part i was wodnering about
00:22 <@rizen> and there will of course be helper methods in Asset.pm and Asset/Wobject.pm to aid in this
00:22 <@mike_s> so the effect is that it *appears* that the content starts filling in on the page asynchronously
00:22 <@rizen> yup
00:22 <@rizen> it's more like streaming
00:23 <@mike_s> cool - have had clients ask for that...
00:23 <@rizen> we stream the content back in real time
00:23 <@rizen> rather than waiting for processing
00:23 <@rizen> anybody see any problems?
00:23 <@rizen> have any ideas for making it better?
00:24 <@rizen> if not, i can tell you about part two of this apocalypse
00:24 <@mike_s> might be my lack of understanding about how the rendering is done but...
00:24 <@mike_s> how does a style or layout that uses a table get split? 
00:24 -!- mdawg is now known as mdawg_afk-errand
00:25 <@rizen> when the browser gets it, it will be a complete table
00:25 < macOnki> rizen, it sounds ok but like mike_s mentioned, a table design will always wait until the table is closed, if an outer table is part of the layout mike_s remark still stands
00:25 <@rizen> as far as webgui is concerned, it's just a string of text
00:25 <@rizen> so we just chunk it up
00:25 <@rizen> at the variable inserts
00:25 <@rizen> yes mac, that's true
00:25 <@mike_s> so there is some importance to designing styles/layouts to take advantage of this approach
00:25 <@rizen> but you'll have stuff before the table design
00:26 <@rizen> for instance, all teh stuff in the <head> block
00:26 < macOnki> rizen, true, those are parsed
00:26 <@rizen> that stuff can be downloading
00:26 <@rizen> there is some importance
00:26 <@rizen> but not much
00:26 <@rizen> eaven table layouts will render faster
00:26 <@rizen> in modern browsers
00:26 <@rizen> sorry...even
00:26 < macOnki> that all depends on the browser indeed
00:27 <@rizen> i have a demo for you
00:27 <@mike_s> but potentially a css based layout could all be pushed down first, and then the divs filled in async right?
00:27 <@rizen> crap, my demo isn't online...forgot about that
00:27 <@rizen> no demo for you
00:27 <@mike_s> lol - glad that doesn't happen to just me...
00:28 <@rizen> yes, css based layouts will theoretically render faster
00:28 < macOnki> rizen, I understand what you mean, I'm a php developer, ob_flush is what you are trying to achieve I suppose
00:28 <@rizen> but honestly, you likely won't notice that much of a difference
00:28 <@rizen> we're talking about a second or two here anyway
00:28 <@rizen> not minutes
00:29 <@rizen> yes, basically no buffering
00:29 < macOnki> it wouldn't gain any client side speed if the design holds nested tables
00:29 <@rizen> just spew it forward
00:29 <@rizen> yes it still will
00:29 <@rizen> like i said
00:29 <@mike_s> this is probably more meaningful for environemtns using expensive assets like the WS client
00:29 <@rizen> images, css, javascript
00:29 <@rizen> etc
00:29 <@rizen> will still all be requested
00:29 <@rizen> while the user is waiting for the html
00:29 <@rizen> so there will still be perceived speed advantage
00:29 < macOnki> hmm, true
00:30 <@rizen> yes, anything that has to access external content will benefit even more greatly
00:30 <@rizen> because the first part of the page can be downloading
00:30 <@rizen> whilst requesting the second part of the page
00:30 <@rizen> ok
00:30 <@mike_s> for us, the next WS client enhancemnt was either to make it AJAX aware and do its stuff async, or do what JT is describing here
00:30 <@rizen> anymore questions before part 2
00:31 < macOnki> nopes
00:31 <@mdawg_afk-errand> (sry I can't participate more :( )
00:31 <@rizen> actually, the ajax aware thing may be a good idea anway
00:31 <@rizen> anyway
00:31 <@rizen> because that way the entire page can load
00:31 <@rizen> and you can display a little "please wait" message
00:31 <@rizen> while the ajax content is fetched
00:31 <@mike_s> true
00:31 <@mike_s> gotta keep matt busy...
00:32 <@rizen> indeed
00:32 <@rizen> ok...any further questions?
00:32 <@mike_s> nope
00:32 <@rizen> part 2:
00:32 <@rizen> because all the content will be going out through this output class
00:32 <@rizen> macro processing can be done there
00:33 <@rizen> thusly saving the programmer from having to write in macro processing
00:33 <@rizen> in addition, since the content is all going to one place
00:33 <@rizen> it can all be piped out to a cache file
00:33 <@rizen> and then the entire contents of the page (http header and all) can be cached
00:33 <@rizen> so that if the page is requested again
00:34 <@rizen> it can be retrieved directly from the cache
00:34 <@rizen> without even loading the asset
00:34 <@rizen> that's not something we can currently do
00:34 <@mike_s> what about places where macros affect what data is fetched in the first place? (SQL reports or WS CLient) but otherwise very cool for "generic" assets
00:34 <@rizen> on those pages, you'll need to disable caching
00:34 <@rizen> just as you would now
00:34 <@mike_s> fair enough
00:35 <@mike_s> but we would still need the macro processed before output
00:35 <@rizen> ??
00:35 <+perlDreamer> otherise you can't execute the SQL Query that depends on the macro output
00:35 <@rizen> are you talking about preprocessing on the query itself?
00:35 <+perlDreamer> select * from myTable where myField=^FormParam("field");
00:35 <+perlDreamer> yes
00:35 <@rizen> ah yes
00:36 <@rizen> that would continue to be just as it is
00:36 <@rizen> i'm talking about macro processing on the page content
00:36 <+perlDreamer> post processing, so to say
00:36 <@rizen> yes
00:36 <@mike_s> in that case... cool -- would let rendered assets sit in cache...
00:36 <@rizen> basically what i'm getting at here
00:36 <@rizen> is that now that we have an output class
00:36 <+perlDreamer> almost like a little built in squid proxy
00:36 <@rizen> we can acheive all sorts of post processing tasks
00:36 <@rizen> that we couldn't before
00:37 <@rizen> like caching
00:37 <@rizen> like better macro handling
00:37 <@rizen> etc
00:37 <@rizen> exactly like a built in squid proxy
00:37 <@rizen> or more correctly, a reverse proxy
00:37 <+perlDreamer> so would the WRE drop the squid proxy and use this instead?
00:37 <@rizen> no
00:38 <@rizen> it's still beneficial to have the mod_proxy
00:38 <@rizen> serving up static files
00:38 <@rizen> and handling ssl connections
00:38 <@rizen> etc
00:38 <+perlDreamer> okay
00:38 <@mike_s> but with memcahced (yes i'm biased) most of a site could be sitting in cache...
00:38 <@rizen> because mod_perl is still very heavy
00:38 <@rizen> yes
00:38 <@rizen> not just on memcached
00:38 <@rizen> the file cache would be too
00:38 <@rizen> though memcached would be faster
00:38 <@mike_s> right 
00:39 <@mike_s> so main diff is that the caching would be at a rendered asset level instead of a page level?
00:39 <@rizen> so yes, it will take better advantage of your giant memcached servers
00:39 <@rizen> no, the reverse
00:39 <@mike_s> doh
00:39 <@rizen> it would be at the page level instead of the asset level
00:39 <@rizen> and it would be handled outside of assets
00:40 <@rizen> therefore not requiring the asset to be loaded
00:40 <@rizen> in order to serve up the cache
00:40 <@rizen> we're just comparing the requested URL
00:40 <@rizen> and the userId
00:40 <@rizen> no asset privileges
00:40  * mike_s light *** goes on
00:40 <@rizen> so anybody see any problem with this?
00:41 <@rizen> this will be a 6.9 or 7.0 feature, if i can work out all the details
00:41 <@rizen> if i can't work it out, then it won't happen until 9.x or 10.x
00:41 <@rizen> whenever we do the next restructuring
00:41 <@rizen> of the api
00:44 <@mike_s> seems like a good direction from my limited perspective...
00:44 < macOnki> rizen, apart from this, will the api be restructured a lot?
00:45 <@rizen> yes
00:45 <@rizen> the new session system
00:45 <@rizen> to get rid of the global session variable
00:45 <@rizen> has affected every single file in the system
00:45 <@rizen> and therefore the api
00:45 <@rizen> it sux from a migration perspective
00:46 <@rizen> but it's a huge advantage from a future outlook perspective
00:46 < macOnki> rizen, well, that is part of another problem, we are still in the process of updating sites, with an api changing this much there will be problems upgrading to newer versions, please be aware
00:46  * mike_s personally wants a *very* stable api in 7.x
00:46 <@rizen> jt want's what mike wants
00:46 <@mike_s> LOL
00:47 <@rizen> mac, i understand your perspective
00:47 <@rizen> believe me
00:47 < macOnki> rizen, part of the problem is that the upgrade scripts do not work as the way people expect it
00:47 <@rizen> plain black manages more than 2000 web sites for our clients
00:47 <@rizen> some with 10's of thousands of lines of custom code
00:47 < macOnki> and the company I work for is thinking about other solutions 
00:47 <@rizen> the upgrade scripts can't work perfectly
00:47 <@rizen> too much is different
00:47 <@rizen> and there are too many variables from install to install
00:48 <@rizen> we test and test and test
00:48 <@rizen> and we still never can account for every single thing
00:48 <@rizen> here's what i recommend
00:48 <@rizen> buy our advanced support package
00:48 <@rizen> then it's our problem
00:48 <@rizen> not yours
00:48 <@rizen> we'll do your upgrades for you
00:48 <@rizen> ask, mike
00:48 <@rizen> we do it for his org
00:49 <@mike_s> lol -- still not painless, but not as bad as the last upgrade cycle
00:49 <@mike_s> and to JT's credit, when we do have a problem, he owns it
00:49 < macOnki> rizen, we do not have enough paying customers using webgui to get that kind of support, migrating to for example exponentcms which has simular problems security related can be fixed by me.
00:50 < macOnki> or by anyone  else with a deeper knowledge of php
00:50 < macOnki> the problem with webgui is the ever changing api
00:50 < macOnki> no offence 
00:50 <@rizen> sure, but there's nothing i can do about php
00:50 <@rizen> i'm certainly not going to rewrite it in php
00:51 <@mike_s> so jt - after 6.9 -- how long with the api be locked in?
00:51 < macOnki> I didn't ask that :-)
00:51 <@rizen> mac, how long have you been part of the webgui community?
00:51 <@rizen> did you come in after 5.5?
00:51 < macOnki> rizen, only short, but I did read a lot
00:51 <@rizen> ok
00:51 < macOnki> 5.4
00:51 <@rizen> so you never experienced the bliss that was pre 5.5 upgrades
00:51 <@rizen> once we get to 7.0.0
00:52 <@rizen> there will be ZERO new API changes
00:52 <@rizen> until the next restructuring
00:52 <@rizen> we'll add to the API to give more functionality
00:52 < macOnki> true, but this isn't an attack to webgui. I only state what we are thinking about
00:52 <@rizen> but never change or delete any part of the api
00:52 <@rizen> which means that assets, macros, etc that are written for 7.0.0
00:52 <@rizen> will work on 8.5.9
00:53 <@mike_s> serious?
00:53 <@rizen> also, it means that your upgrades will be far more smooth than they have ever been in your webgui lifetime
00:53 <@rizen> yes i'm serious
00:54 <@rizen> the only way that an asset (or whatever) that was written for 7.0.0 won't work in 8.5.9 would be if it's using some bugged part of the api
00:54 <@mike_s> so what were the commetns re 9.x and 10.x previously? any expected lifespan yet? (not a fair question, but is 7.x gonna last longer than 6 months)
00:54 <@rizen> as in, the bug gets fixed
00:54 <@rizen> and the fix breaks the code
00:54 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat050.mxim.com] has left #webgui []
00:54 <@rizen> but the API will not change
00:55 <@rizen> 9.x or 10.x (whatever the next restructuring ala 6.x is) will be 3 or 4 years down the road
00:55 <@rizen> at minimum
00:56 <@mike_s> so we have 7/8 for 3-5 years of stability ?
00:56 <@rizen> yes
00:56 <@rizen> we may have 7/8/9/10/11/12
00:56 <@rizen> for all i know
00:56 <@rizen> version numbers are irrelevant as far as this goes
00:56 <@mike_s> anything beyond 3-5 years is meaningless
00:56 <@rizen> just know that you have AT MINIMUM 3 years of stability
00:57 <@mike_s> the world changes too much
00:57 <@rizen> i agree that the world changes too much
00:57 <@rizen> but that's what 6.x has been about
00:57 <@rizen> giving us a platform we can build on
00:57 <@rizen> without chaning the apip
00:57 <@rizen> api
00:57 <@rizen> only adding to it
00:58 <@mike_s> so what is the big picutre purpose of 7.x vs 8.x in your mind?
00:59 <@mike_s> are you that far in your thinking yet>?
01:00 <@rizen> each one will have functional goals
01:00 <@rizen> 7.x should be about commerce
01:00 <@rizen> 8.x should be about whatever functional goal we come up with at that time
01:00 <@rizen> but who knows
01:01 <@rizen> 7.x is still 6 months away
01:01 <@rizen> by then i may decide that 7.x is about CRM
01:01 <@rizen> and 8.x is about web games
01:01 <@mike_s> so in some ways, the question is, while breaking the apis for eliminstating global sessions, does it make sense to also make the move the apache buckets
01:01 <@mike_s> or wait for that until 9 or 10
01:02 <@rizen> actually no
01:02 <@rizen> that's not the question
01:02 <@rizen> i already know it makes sense to do it
01:02 <@mike_s> personally, i want the api pain to stop, but i'd rather get the api changes done once and for all for a *long* time
01:02 <@rizen> the question is whether or not i'm smart enough to figure out how to do it in a reasonable timeframe
01:02 <@rizen> 6.x has dragged on long enough
01:02 <@rizen> i won't delay the release of 7.0.0 just to do that
01:03 <@mike_s> in whcih case it waits for 3-5 years?
01:03 <@rizen> yes
01:03 <@rizen> because it requires a break in the api
01:03 <@rizen> if it doesn't get done now
01:03 <@rizen> it won't get done for a very long time
01:03 <@rizen> that means that i either better be as smart as i think i am
01:03 <@mike_s> sin which case ajax aware ws client becomes way more meaningful
01:03 <@rizen> (which isn't very)
01:04 <@rizen> or we need to get a lot of money flowing in to hire people smarter than me
01:04 <@rizen> =)
01:04 <@mike_s> lol
01:04 <@rizen> like i said before
01:04 <@rizen> the ajax ws client makes sense anyway
01:04 <@rizen> it's the right thing to do
01:04 <@rizen> regardless of this stuff
01:05 <@mike_s> ya - i'm sure we'll be talking about that yet....
01:05 <@rizen> mac
01:05 <@rizen> did we lose you?
01:05 < macOnki> no
01:05 <@rizen> does my 3 year promise sound good to you?
01:05 <@rizen> will you relay that to your colleagues
01:05 < macOnki> 3 years sounds good, but I see a lot of problems
01:06 <@rizen> fill us in
01:06 <@rizen> what problems
01:06 < macOnki> I want to think about it and do some more research before I reply
01:06 <@rizen> ok, at least hint me
01:06 <@rizen> problems with the 3 year promise
01:06 <@rizen> or with the bucket output
01:06 <@rizen> or with something else
01:07 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat050.mxim.com] has joined #webgui
01:07 < macOnki> rizen, well, part of it would be what I mailed you about, looking at the code and hearing what was told here today will make me have a sharper look
01:07 < macOnki> even the fact that you are considering ajax
01:08 < macOnki> webgui needs proper input validation for instance
01:08 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat050.mxim.com] has left #webgui []
01:08 <@rizen> that's easily done though
01:08 <@rizen> our forms system is all OO
01:08 < macOnki> if you would use ajax without it you will have a big problem
01:08 <@rizen> by changing a single method
01:08 <@rizen> i can validate every form element for XSS
01:09 < macOnki> rizen, again, I will need to investigate it a bit more but I do see problems
01:09 <@rizen> please note that most of webgui already has such validation
01:09 <@rizen> the parts of webgui exposed to users
01:09 <@rizen> user profile fields, cs posts
01:09 <@rizen> etc
01:10 < macOnki> well, people told me that all textfields are not validated since webgui can't expect what is supposed to be submitted
01:11 < macOnki> maybe there is a backlog of todays discussion
01:11 < macOnki> but is webgui tested for sql injections?
01:12 < macOnki> rizen, to be more precise, I am afraid it hasn't been tested, I hope I am wrong
01:12 <@rizen> hold on a sec, on phone
01:12 < macOnki> np, back in a minute too, taking a cigaret
01:16 < snapcount> anytime user data is passed into an sql statement it should be escaped by the quote method
01:17 < snapcount> which in the webgui api is just a wrapper for DBI quote
01:17 < snapcount> that should quash any sql that is passed in
01:17 < macOnki> snapcount, bullshit, forgive me for saying that
01:17 < macOnki> it should be checked before inserting it into the database
01:17 < snapcount> it is
01:18 < macOnki> it isn't
01:18 < snapcount> quote is executed before the statement is executed on the db
01:18 < macOnki> whenever you quote user input you should depend on sanitizing the output, this is not done
01:19 < macOnki> but rizen can fill you in on what I discovered today
01:20 < snapcount> I'm not following you
01:21 < snapcount> are you saying it's okay to let the injection happen so long as you don't let it affect what is sent back to the user?
01:21 < macOnki> snap, I can insert js into text fields, you can quote it before inserting it into the database but webgui fails to check it when it's read from the database
01:22 < snapcount> oh
01:22 <@mdawg_afk-errand> onki is referring to a situation in dataform where js is inserted.  snapcount is referring to escaping sql code, not js.
01:22 < snapcount> yes
01:22 < snapcount> XSS vulnerabilities do exist
01:22 < snapcount> and need to be fixed
01:23 < macOnki> whenever you store data it should be what you expect
01:23 < snapcount> I agree... I just wouldn't describe what you're talking about as SQL injection
01:23 < snapcount> that's where the confusion came in
01:23 < snapcount> I smell what you're cookin'
01:24 < macOnki> true, but these issues are in general part of the sql injections. I am not saying webgui has those problems but stated that I will need to examine that a bit more
01:25 <@mdawg_afk-errand> does anyone here mind if today's irc transcript is emailed to the dev list?
01:25 <@mdawg_afk-errand> I won't do it if anyone objects in the next 7 hours.
01:25 <@mdawg_afk-errand> or even next 18 hours.
01:25 < macOnki> mdawg_afk-errand, I think it's better to store it somewhere online and post the link :-)
01:25 -!- mdawg_afk-errand is now known as mdawg
01:26 <@mdawg> that could be.
01:27 < snapcount> I'm okay with it so long as my name is changed to "Rizen's Daddy whom he worships because $self->coolness > his"
01:27 < snapcount> or something to that effect
01:27 <@mdawg> i thought maybe you'd want to see the 1000 lines you missed
01:27 < macOnki> rizen, sorry but I need some sleep now, It is past midnight over here, I can discuss the issues again tomorrow
01:27 < macOnki> night all
01:28 <@mdawg> night
01:28 -!- macOnki [n=hanswolt@lonki.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"]
01:28 < snapcount> by the way... is there a bot that will keep this channel alive?
01:28 <@mdawg> no; want to make one?
01:29 < snapcount> yeah... I haven't done it since I was like 12 though
01:29 <@mdawg> :-D
01:29 < snapcount> I've some friends over on #novell on a different network... I'll see what they're using
01:30 < snapcount> I'm pretty sure my TOS will allow me to host it but I'm not sure
01:30 < snapcount> unless PB wants to host it
01:30 < snapcount> I don't care either way
01:36 <@mdawg> i dunno.  I don't know if pb's datacenter allows that either.
01:39 <@rizen> ok back
01:39 <@rizen> sorry that took so long
01:39 <@rizen> people like to chat
01:39 <@rizen> looks like mac is gone
01:39 <@rizen> too bad
01:40 <@mdawg> his other login is lonki_home (his work pc)
01:41 <@mdawg> so he'll have a transcript of this.
01:41 <@mdawg> if you wanted to send him a msg that he'll get in a few hours.
01:43 <@rizen> i c
01:43 <@rizen> well then the answer is:
01:43 <@rizen> yes, webgui has been tested for sql injections
01:43 <@rizen> by 2 seperate security companies
01:43 <@rizen> and the two errors they found were fixed
01:44 <@rizen> no it doesn't protect all public fields against XSS, but it does do it where it counts
01:44 <@rizen> i'm not sure how severe the dataform thing is yet, still have to investigate
01:44 <@mdawg> i looked into it.
01:45 <@mdawg> there's no privilege/group security on viewList
01:45 <@rizen> and like i said before, if we decide to do so, making all fields do some basic javascript injection testing is rather trivial
01:45 <@rizen> especially in 6.9
01:45 <@rizen> ok, that's easily fixed matt
01:45 <@rizen> and that has virtually nothing to do with an xss exploit
01:45 <@mdawg> i know.
01:45 < snapcount> shit ballz
01:46 < snapcount> We do not allow IRC, egg drop bots, or anything of the sort on our network. IRC servers are extremely prone to DoS activity. If you are caught running an IRC server inside our network your account will be terminated immediately. This is a pretty common practice in the hosting industry today. The rule is, you can run anything on the server as long as no one can access it via a standard IRC client.
01:46 < snapcount> I guess I can't host the bot
01:47 < snapcount> maybe I can get one of my Novell friends to do it
01:47 <@mdawg> I didn't think irc bots were necessarily irc servers.  i thought they could be client-only
01:47 <@mike_s> anyone want to write a POE based IRC bot? i'll host it on one of our servers
01:48 < snapcount> I'm so lame I don't even know what POE is
01:48 < snapcount> so I guess that counts me out
01:48  * mdawg is a lam3r as well.
01:48 < snapcount> I'll provide moral support
01:48 <@mike_s> http://search.cpan.org/~bingos/POE-Component-IRC-4.77/lib/POE/Component/IRC.pm
01:49 <@rizen> there are already half a dozen poe irc bots
01:49 <@rizen> on the example pages
01:49 < snapcount> brb... I'm gonna hop on efnet and see if someone will take up our cause
01:49 <@mike_s> yep
01:49 <@rizen> incidentally, no i can't host anything related to irc either
01:49 -!- snapcount [n=roy@64-193-14-144.dtb.clearwire-dns.net] has quit []
01:49 <@rizen> 2 of our 7 upstream providers have strict clauses in our contract with them not to do it
01:50 <@mike_s> i'm not aware of any restrictions we have in our data center -- let me double check
01:51 < xdanger> I can, but I'm in finland and don't know that much about bot's... but my irssi is online 24/7 and has some limited autoop functions...
01:51 -!- mode/#webgui [+o xdanger] by mdawg
01:52 <@xdanger> so now I just have to remember how the autoop syntax went =P
02:00 <@rizen> anybody know what language this is:
02:00 <@rizen> http://www.framasoft.net/article3540.html
02:01 <@mdawg> french
02:01 <@xdanger> french
02:01 -!- usepoe712 [n=poebot@64.78.230.164] has joined #webgui
02:01 <@mike_s> that would be my little poe bot
02:01 <@rizen> nice
02:01 <@mike_s> just testing -- and it will be setup to log the conversations
02:01 -!- mode/#webgui [+o usepoe712] by mdawg
02:01 <@xdanger> mdawg: could you leave the channel and come back so that I know that I did this correctly ?
02:02 -!- mdawg [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has left #webgui []
02:02 -!- mdawg [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui
02:02 -!- mode/#webgui [+o mdawg] by xdanger
02:02 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
02:02 <@mdawg> nice.
02:02 <@xdanger> 02:02 -!- Friends checked: mdawg
02:02 <@xdanger> 02:02 -!- mode/#webgui [+o mdawg] by xdanger        
02:02 <@mike_s> here's sample logging fromthe poebot...
02:02 <@mike_s> [mike@mark4 irc_logger]$ ./poebot.pl
02:02 <@mike_s>  [Tue Jan  3 17:01:27 2006] <mike_s:#webgui> that would be my little poe bot
02:02 <@mike_s>  [Tue Jan  3 17:01:44 2006] <rizen:#webgui> nice
02:02 <@mike_s>  [Tue Jan  3 17:01:46 2006] <mike_s:#webgui> just testing -- and it will be setup to log the conversations
02:02 <@mike_s>  [Tue Jan  3 17:01:48 2006] <xdanger:#webgui> mdawg: could you leave the channel and come back so that I know that I did this correctly ?
02:02 <@xdanger> don't know how static your host's are, but..
02:02 <@mike_s>  [Tue Jan  3 17:02:19 2006] <mdawg:#webgui> nice.
02:02 <@mike_s>  [Tue Jan  3 17:02:20 2006] <xdanger:#webgui> 02:02 -!- Friends checked: mdawg
02:02 <@mike_s>  [Tue Jan  3 17:02:20 2006] <xdanger:#webgui> 02:02 -!- mode/#webgui [+o mdawg] by xdanger
02:02 <@mdawg> my ip changes about once a month.
02:03 -!- mode/#webgui [+o crythias] by mdawg
02:03 <@crythias> howdy
02:03 <@mike_s> so what does everyone want wiht the logs?
02:04 <@mike_s> emailed once a day to the dev list? posted to a website?
02:04 <@crythias> better not
02:04 <@crythias> :)
02:04 <@mdawg> i dunno.  but I can mail you the entire log for today.
02:04 <@xdanger> just some one adds something to op me so that should be enough
02:04 <@crythias> tyvm
02:04 <@xdanger> generate a funny statistics with pisg
02:04 <@xdanger> =)
02:05 <@crythias> what's new?
02:05 <@mike_s> you missed out on a few of JT's apocolypse's
02:07 <@mike_s> so we decided to start logging this -- thus the poe bot 
02:07 <@mike_s> just needing to decide what to do with the logs
02:07 <@crythias> oh :)
02:07 <@mdawg> nail them to santa clause
02:07 <@mdawg> err
02:07 <@mdawg> mail them to santa
02:07 <@mdawg> just kidding.
02:07 <@crythias> freudian slip? And I didn't think they'd fit you...
02:07 <@mdawg> (I think?)
02:07 <@mdawg> hey :p
02:08 <@xdanger> my irssi also automaticly logs everything...
02:09 <@xdanger> just for your amusement: http://mentalhouse.net/irc/webgui
02:10 <@mike_s> wow - very good random quotes...
02:11 <@mike_s> not putting quesiton marks on anymore
02:12 <@rizen> i like that section below
02:12 <@crythias> that amuses me.
02:12 <@rizen> is mike_s stupid?
02:12 <@rizen> Is mike_s stupid or just asking too many questions? 23.3% lines contained a question!
02:12 <@mike_s> )(*#$) )(*#$)(* #)
02:12 <@mike_s> thanks for picking that up buddy
02:13 <@rizen> hehe
02:13 <@rizen> it also says i talk too much
02:13 <@mdawg> ?
02:13 <@mdawg> ?
02:13 <@mdawg> ?
02:13 <@mike_s> rizen talks to him/herself a lot.
02:13 <@mike_s> ya - i liked that one
02:14 <@xdanger> I'm just wondering how well does our connection scale to US, is it slow ?
02:14 <@mike_s> so xdnager - (not using a question mark but) does your app generate a web page of the log
02:14 <@rizen> it seems quite fast
02:15 <@xdanger> It's mainly finnish and scandinavian and europe, but haven't got a clue about over the atlantic..
02:15 <@mike_s> i'm in canada -- works quite well
02:16 <@xdanger> mike_s: yes, it's a perl script that takes in different kinds of logs and generates configurable statistics =)
02:16 <@xdanger> http://pisg.sourceforge.net/
02:16 <@mike_s> k - if you want to just generate the web page log i'll shut down the little poe bot ...
02:16 <@crythias> wow
02:17 <@xdanger> well, If you want the logs some where I can set up a cronjob to copy them every hour or something like that ?
02:17 <@crythias> well, if it's going to get indexed, I'll throw in http://www.gwy2.org/cgi-bin/fom
02:18 <@rizen> gerald, how's that interview coming?
02:19 <@crythias> awe. darn it. I left it at work. I've been under the weather since my return from my grandmother's funeral.
02:19 <@crythias> I'll be able to get a copy in a sec
02:19 <@rizen> do you need me to send again?
02:19 <@rizen> no
02:19 <@rizen> ok
02:19 <@rizen> apparently snapcount has gotten his friends to set up some sort of a bot as well
02:19 <@rizen> you people are going bot crazy
02:20 <@mdawg> this will be the most well-protected channel on this network.
02:20 <@mdawg> highest bot-person ratio.
02:21 <@mike_s> rot13 hello world
02:21 <@usepoe712> uryyb jbeyq
02:21 <@mike_s> but will there's do rot13? ;)
02:21 <@rizen> we might as well just make the bots talk to each other too
02:21 <@mdawg> rot13 rot13
02:21 <@usepoe712> ebg13
02:21 <@rizen> and decide the features of webgui too
02:21 <@mdawg> lol.
02:21 <@mdawg> might as well.
02:21 -!- mode/#webgui [-o usepoe712] by rizen
02:22 <@mike_s> good plan there
02:22 <@mike_s> i'll shut that one down
02:22 -!- usepoe712 [n=poebot@64.78.230.164] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
02:22 <@rizen> the others aren't logged in yet though
02:22 <@mike_s> so demanding...
02:23 -!- usepoe2 [n=poebot@64.78.230.164] has joined #webgui
02:23 <@mike_s> i'll leave it up for a while to keep the channel open, but won't be doing anything with the logs
02:24 <@rizen> could you email the logs to matt every half hour
02:24 <@rizen> the entire days logs though
02:24 <@rizen> just spam the crap out of him
02:24 <@xdanger> http://mentalhouse.net/irc/logs/webgui/
02:25  * mdawg exclaims, "It's a spamity calamity!"
02:26 <@mdawg> i'll blacklist your mail servers' ips with every known ip-based blocklist.
02:26 <@mdawg> (not pb's)
02:26 <@mdawg> whoever spams me :)
02:26 <@xdanger> it's 2:25 am, so I'll head over to my bed, girlfriend and cats...
02:26 <@xdanger> good night ;)
02:27 <@mdawg> 'night.
02:27 <@crythias> gnite
02:27 <@rizen> nite
02:28 <@rizen> or perhaps knight
02:31 <@crythias> working on the interview...
02:31 <@rizen> excellent
02:31 <@rizen> i can't wait to see how these turn out
02:32 <@rizen> i hope people like them
02:35 <@mike_s> what interviews?
02:36 <@rizen> i don't know what you're talking about
02:36 <@rizen> those aren't the droids you're looking for
02:36 <@crythias> you can go about your business.
02:36 <@rizen> move along
02:37 <@mike_s> lol
02:37 <@mike_s> yes Mr Anderson
02:37 <@rizen> i can already see that this channel is going to be a huge time suck
02:37 <@crythias> yes
02:37 <@rizen> i'm going to have to never log in here agian
02:37 <@crythias> it's all matthew's fault.
02:38 <@mdawg> :(
02:38 <@rizen> matt, you're fired
02:38 -!- mdawg [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com"]
02:38 -!- mdawg [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui
02:38 -!- mode/#webgui [+o mdawg] by xdanger
02:39 -!- snapcount [n=roy@64-193-14-144.dtb.clearwire-dns.net] has joined #webgui
02:40 < snapcount> our bot should be joining us soon :-)
02:40 <@mike_s> although rizen - some scheduled apocolypses on here could be interesting
02:40 <@mdawg> interactive apocalypses.
02:40 <@mdawg> if only the apostle john had IRC.
02:40 <@mike_s> LOL
02:40 -!- gooey [n=gooey@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has joined #WebGUI
02:41 <@mdawg> welcome, goodoll
02:41 -!- usepoe2 [n=poebot@64.78.230.164] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
02:42 <@rizen> it's hard to imagine that interactive apocolypses would be a good thing
02:42 <@rizen> it seems they'd likely make it more confused
02:42 <@rizen> as people ask questions
02:42 <@rizen> etc
02:42 <@rizen> in the middle of me spewing my spiel
02:42 -!- phobia [n=phobia@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has joined #webgui
02:42 <@crythias> I'm scared
02:42 <@mdawg> welcome fearNess.
02:42 -!- mode/#webgui [+o gooey] by rizen
02:43 <@rizen> ok snapcount
02:43 <@rizen> what can we do with this bot
02:43 < snapcount> we're debugging
02:43 < snapcount> it's version 6.x
02:43 < snapcount> haha
02:44 <@mdawg> touche
02:44 < snapcount> we should be at 7.0 shortly
02:44 <@crythias> 6.8.3 and you try to dcc and it forgets where it put the files?
02:44 <@rizen> listen here bitch
02:44 <@rizen> don't make me get out my whiping stick
02:45 <@crythias> :)
02:46 < phobia> *** Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )
02:46 < phobia> sad...
02:46 < phobia> soooooooooo very sad...
02:46 < phobia> "free"node
02:46 < phobia> WTFEVAH
02:47 -!- gooey [n=gooey@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
02:47 <@mdawg> hello phobia
02:47 < phobia> hi
02:47 -!- snapcount is now known as gooey
02:48 < gooey> shit
02:48 <@mdawg> whom do you fear, phobia.
02:48 < phobia> you think that my nickname represents what I am, versus what I inspire in the people I meet?
02:49 < gooey> hehe
02:49 -!- mdawg is now known as WebGUI7
02:50 < phobia> if it's fear you want, download & watch this:    http://tinyurl.com/9vklz
02:50 <@WebGUI7> my advent is imminent.
02:50 -!- gooey is now known as WRE
02:51 -!- phobia is now known as stckovrflw
02:51 -!- WRE is now known as snapcount
02:51 <@crythias> grr
02:52 <@WebGUI7> lost you on AIM, gwy
02:53  * crythias nods
02:54 < snapcount> damn freenode
02:54  * WebGUI7 is downloading terror-inspiring flick.  
02:54 < snapcount> we're at 6.9
02:54 < snapcount> hehe
02:55 -!- rizen2 [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
02:55 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen2] by xdanger
02:55 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #webgui []
02:55 < snapcount> is xdanger a bot?
02:56 -!- rizen2 [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit]
02:58 -!- WRE [n=WRE@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has joined #WebGUI
02:59 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
02:59 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by xdanger
02:59 <@crythias> xdanger help
02:59 < snapcount> !help
03:00 -!- WRE [n=WRE@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
03:00 < snapcount> 6.9.1
03:01  * rizen /help
03:01 -!- mike_s [n=mike@s205-206-123-62.ab.hsia.telus.net] has left #webgui ["Leaving"]
03:01 -!- rizen is now known as test
03:01 -!- test is now known as rizen
03:02 <@WebGUI7> mixing you guys, perl, and irc bots is like a bunch of bulls in China.
03:02 <@WebGUI7> I mean.  a China shop.
03:02 -!- rizen changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI is the best plumbing monitor software ever made
03:02 < snapcount> we're working on that interactive apocalypse
03:02 <@crythias> nice
03:03 < snapcount> did you guys know this channel name is open on EFNet?
03:03 < snapcount> like 10x's the ppl over there
03:03 <@WebGUI7> I blindly chose from the list of networks when I chose this one.
03:03 < snapcount> hehe
03:03 <@rizen> is that a good thing?
03:03 < snapcount> probably not
03:04 < snapcount> 10 times the retards mucking up our discussions 
03:04 <@rizen> i don't think we necessarily want peeps unrelated to webgui dropping by
03:04  * snapcount reflects on the quality of discussion thus far
03:04 <@rizen> unless this irc channel is a promotional thing
03:04 <@WebGUI7> snapcount, you missed quite a lot.
03:05  * WebGUI7 releases itself early.
03:05 -!- crythias changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI R0X0R$ | visit http://www.gwy2.org/cgi-bin/fom
03:05 < stckovrflw> Efnet is the wild west of IRC
03:05 < stckovrflw> at least, it was at one time
03:05 <@WebGUI7> nice.
03:05 < stckovrflw> I smell fear :P
03:05 <@WebGUI7> url error.
03:05 -!- stckovrflw is now known as phobia
03:06 <@WebGUI7> WebGUI was unable to instantiate your style template.
03:06 <@WebGUI7> at http://www.gwy2.org/cgi-bin/fom.
03:06 <@crythias> I clicked and it worked.
03:06 <@WebGUI7> your client is superior.
03:06 <@rizen> i think webgui needs new error messages
03:07 <@rizen> like, webgui was unable to account for your ineptitude
03:07 <@WebGUI7> LOL
03:07 <@rizen> webgui couldn't overcome your unbearable nature
03:07 <@rizen> webgui can't tollerate ignorance
03:07 <@WebGUI7> webgui can't spell.
03:07 <@rizen> jt can't spell
03:08 <@rizen> perhaps we can add a with-humor = 1 flag to the config file
03:08 <@rizen> that will replace the error messages with humor
03:08 <@WebGUI7> it could be its own language.
03:08 <@WebGUI7> EnglishHumor
03:08 <@crythias> JT.. I will need to send photo under separate cover. acceptable?
03:09 < snapcount> how about
03:09 < snapcount> webgui farts in your general direction
03:09 <@rizen> on april 1 this year
03:09 <@crythias> These aren't the style templates you're looking for.
03:09 <@rizen> i'm going to run the webgui translation through a redneck translator
03:09 < snapcount> LOL
03:09 <@rizen> and release it as a new WebGUI Worldwide member
03:09 < snapcount> hell yeah
03:10  * snapcount screams yee-haw!!! in the spirit
03:10  * WebGUI7 bites something.
03:10 <@rizen> i don't understand gerald, what do you mean under a seperate cover?
03:11 <@crythias> You dum messed sumpin up, boy.
03:11 <@crythias> dun
03:11 <@crythias> Y'all caint do that 'round hyere.
03:12  * WebGUI7 returns "I'm broked!"
03:13 -!- WebGUI7 is now known as ircSucksTime
03:13 <@crythias>  separate email
03:14 <@rizen> k
03:25 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
03:26 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
03:26 -!- mode/#webgui [+o crythias] by xdanger
03:26 -!- WRE [n=WRE@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has joined #WebGUI
03:27 -!- snapcount is now known as gooey
03:28 -!- gooey is now known as snapcount
03:28 -!- snapcount is now known as WRE_
03:28 -!- WRE [n=WRE@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
03:28 < WRE_> what a pain in the ass
03:29 <@crythias> hrm.
03:29 <@ircSucksTime> what
03:29 <@ircSucksTime> clue me in
03:29 -!- WRE__ [n=gooey@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has joined #WebGUI
03:29 <@crythias> most used words
03:29 -!- WRE_ is now known as snapcount
03:29 -!- WRE__ is now known as WRE_
03:30 <@crythias> people should think about database using Dataform asset WebGUI because still 
03:32 -!- WRE_ [n=gooey@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
03:33 <@crythias> IRCUL8R
03:33 < snapcount> we can't initialize the bot until it logs in
03:33 < snapcount> and it we can't log it in until we initialize it
03:33 < snapcount> isn't that a paradox?
03:33 <@crythias> ??
03:34 <@ircSucksTime> can't you spoof it?
03:34 <@ircSucksTime> log in using another prog.
03:34 <@ircSucksTime> same ident, etc.
03:34 <@ircSucksTime> same machine
03:34 <@crythias> initialize it in a different #channel?
03:34 < phobia> the ye olde gaytownne irc network you have chosen
03:35 <@ircSucksTime> roy, do you have a webgui business?
03:35 < snapcount> yeah
03:35 <@ircSucksTime> oh yeah; oceansview
03:35 <@crythias> ok
03:36 < snapcount> no
03:36 <@ircSucksTime> ?
03:36 < snapcount> we can't message it b/c freenode won't allow dcc unless you're registered
03:36 < snapcount> and we have to dcc it to initialize it
03:36 < snapcount> and we can't tell it how to login until it's initialized
03:37 <@crythias> you can't message under the bot's name?
03:38 < snapcount> the bot can't message me back until it's logged in
03:38 < snapcount> I think we found a script that will do it
03:38 <@crythias> register the bot under the bot's name?
03:38 < snapcount> when it joins the channel
03:38 < snapcount> we did
03:38 < snapcount> we can't get the bot to type the command to identify it's self
03:38 < snapcount> but we think we found a script that will do so
03:39 <@crythias> don't you have console method of running the bot?
03:39 < snapcount> tune in at 11
03:39 < snapcount> yeah
03:39 < snapcount> but not until you initialize it
03:39 < snapcount> it will just ignore you
03:39 < snapcount> hehe
03:39 <@crythias> that's what I encountered.
03:39 < snapcount> oh
03:39 -!- WRE [n=gooey@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has joined #WebGUI
03:40 <@crythias> shouldn't ignore you from YOUR console.
03:41 < snapcount> you mean the cmd line of the server running the bot?
03:42 <@crythias> yeah
03:42 < snapcount> hmmm
03:42 < snapcount> not sure
03:42 < snapcount> let me see if we can do that
03:42 < snapcount> it's an eggdrop bot
03:42 <@crythias> yeah
03:43 < snapcount> do you know how to do that?
03:43 <@crythias> one second
03:43 < snapcount> command to make the bot say "/msg nickserv ident password"
03:43 < snapcount> we need it to say that
03:43 -!- webguibot [n=webguibo@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
03:43 -!- WRE [n=gooey@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
03:44 -!- webguibot [n=webguibo@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
03:44 < snapcount> we found a way
03:44 -!- webguibot [n=webguibo@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
03:44 < snapcount> with telnet
03:44 <@ircSucksTime> who is we
03:45 < snapcount> phobia
03:45 <@ircSucksTime> who is phobia
03:45 < snapcount> friend of mine from #novell on efnet
03:45 <@ircSucksTime> oh; i see.
03:45 <@ircSucksTime> sry phobia.
03:45 < snapcount> runs a bunch of bots
03:45 <@ircSucksTime> downloading (from ed2k) that movie you linked.
03:45 < snapcount> I gave him free WG hosting in exchange for our bot
03:45 -!- webguibot [n=webguibo@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
03:45 -!- webguibot [n=webguibo@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
03:46 < snapcount> who does webguibot belong to?
03:46 <@ircSucksTime> the enemy.
03:46 <@crythias> me
03:46 -!- WRE [n=gooey@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has joined #WebGUI
03:46 < snapcount> cool
03:46 -!- WRE [n=gooey@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
03:46 < snapcount> we'll have more bots than people
03:47 < snapcount> I welcome our new IRC bot overlords
03:47 <@rizen> i'll do your bidding my master
03:47 -!- WRE [n=gooey@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has joined #WebGUI
03:47 -!- WRE [n=gooey@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
03:51 -!- webguibot [n=webguibo@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
03:52 -!- phobia [n=phobia@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has quit ["Create like a God, Command like a King, Work like a Slave <k!15b8>"]
03:52 -!- webguibot [n=webguibo@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
03:53 -!- WRE [n=gooey@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has joined #WebGUI
03:53 -!- WRE [n=gooey@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
03:55 <@crythias> heh
03:55 <@crythias> that kinda worked
03:55 <@crythias> hello
03:55 <@crythias> webguibot hello
03:56 -!- WRE [n=gooey@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has joined #WebGUI
03:56 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #webgui []
03:56 <@crythias> I got eggdrop to work. sorta.
03:56 <@crythias> at least I got it to create the user file.
03:56 < WRE> hohoho
03:56 < WRE> phear
03:56 -!- WRE [n=gooey@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has quit [Client Quit]
03:57 -!- WRE [n=gooey@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has joined #WebGUI
03:58 -!- crythias is now known as webguibo1
03:58 -!- webguibo1 is now known as crythias
04:00 -!- webguibot [n=webguibo@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
04:05 -!- WRE [n=gooey@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
04:06 -!- WRE [n=gooey@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has joined #WebGUI
04:10 < WRE> hmmm
04:10 < WRE> blah
04:11 -!- phobia [n=phobia@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has joined #webgui
04:12 < WRE> whee
04:12 < WRE> ops!
04:12 < WRE> plz?  :)
04:12 <@crythias> for whom?
04:13 < snapcount> for the bot
04:13 <@crythias> right. gimme a nick.
04:13 < snapcount> WRE
04:13 -!- mode/#webgui [+o WRE] by crythias
04:13 -!- mode/#webgui [+t] by WRE
04:15 < snapcount> &op
04:21 < snapcount> &op
04:21 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by WRE
04:21 -!- mode/#webgui [-o snapcount] by WRE
04:21 < snapcount> nice
04:21 < snapcount> we get the fucker working
04:22 < snapcount> and I break it
04:22 < snapcount> &op
04:25 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by WRE
04:31 -!- snapcount [n=roy@64-193-14-144.dtb.clearwire-dns.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
04:32 -!- snapcount [i=snapcoun@64-193-14-144.dtb.clearwire-dns.net] has joined #webgui
04:36 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by WRE
04:36 <@WRE> TAKEOVER
04:36 <@WRE> muuhaha
04:37 <@snapcount> .wx
04:37 < phobia> !bofh
04:37 <@WRE> BOFH Quick-excuse: Password is too complex to decrypt
04:37 < phobia> !bash
04:37 <@WRE> |bash 96| <VIVI> Xbox already has the following games:
04:37 <@WRE> |bash 96| <VIVI> Microsoft Word
04:37 <@WRE> |bash 96| <VIVI> Microsoft Excel
04:37 <@WRE> |bash 96| <VIVI> Solitaire 
04:37 < phobia> !exchange $1 eur usd
04:38 < phobia> !gb george orwell nineteen eighty four
04:38 <@snapcount> !exchange $1 eur usd
04:39 <@crythias> !bash
04:39 <@WRE> |bash 462| <achan> DigDug: 'ascetic' is maybe the word you're looking for
04:39 <@WRE> |bash 462| <DigDug> ascetic?
04:39 <@WRE> |bash 462| <DigDug> I don't know such a word. :/
04:39 <@WRE> |bash 462| <achan> someone who lives a monastic life outside of a monestary
04:39 <@WRE> |bash 462| <DigDug> Ahh.
04:39 <@WRE> |bash 462| <DigDug> Is there a term for someone who lives a monastic life on the Internet?
04:39 <@WRE> |bash 462| <Medieval> yes, e-scetic. 
04:40  * crythias shakes his head
04:40 <@snapcount> !g webgui
04:42 <@ircSucksTime> HELO
04:42 <@snapcount> hello WRE
04:42 <@ircSucksTime> oh no.
04:42 <@ircSucksTime> not bash.
04:43 <@snapcount> !g webgui
04:43 <@WRE> <img src=/nav_page.gif width=16 height=2 @ /search?q=webgui&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&start=10&sa=N 
04:43 <@ircSucksTime> lol.
04:43 < phobia> !gb george orwell nineteen eighty four
04:44 < phobia> !exchange $1 usd cad
04:44 <@WRE> $1 U.S. Dollar makes 1.1561 Canadian Dollar.
04:44 < phobia> !horoscope scorpio
04:44 <@WRE> Scorpio; <span id="intelliTxt">The stars are telling you that it's time to get away from it all. Even if that just means a hot bath behind a locked bathroom door, make some kind of attempt to get some private time for relaxation.</span>
04:44 < phobia> woo complete with html tags
04:44 <@snapcount> shiney!
04:45 <@snapcount> .wx Daytona Beach, FL.
04:46 <@snapcount> &kick phobia
04:46 -!- phobia was kicked from #WebGUI by WRE [Requested by snapcount]
04:46 -!- phobia [n=phobia@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has joined #WebGUI
04:46 < phobia> heh
04:46 -!- ircSucksTime is now known as self
04:47 <@self> &kick self
04:47 <@self> dangit.
04:47 <@snapcount> haha
04:47 < phobia> !seen self
04:47 <@WRE> phobia, self is right here!
04:47 < phobia> !lastspoke self
04:47 <@WRE> self last uttered a word on #webgui less than a minute ago.
04:48 < phobia> !seen my ass
04:48 <@WRE> phobia, I don't remember seeing my.
04:48 < phobia> bah
04:48 <@self> !seen myHead
04:48 <@WRE> self, I don't remember seeing myhead.
04:48  * crythias loves self.
04:49 <@self> crythias: can we get it to play the funny license plate game
04:51 <@snapcount> what is the funny license plate game?
04:51 <@self> crythias?  
04:51 <@self> that's your cue.
04:52 <@crythias> sorry
04:52 <@crythias> someone's having problems installing wg
04:53 <@self> um; that never happens.
04:53 <@crythias> IM2SXY
04:53 <@crythias> testCodebase.pl doesn't see dsn. why?
04:53 <@snapcount> no WG config
04:54 <@snapcount> or incorrect config
04:55 <@crythias> NO2HARD
04:56 -!- cluge [n=aaron@rrcs-24-73-239-166.se.biz.rr.com] has joined #webgui
04:56 <@crythias> hi
04:56 < cluge> hello
04:56 <@crythias> 21:46:41) Cluge1669: Let me give you some quick background
04:56 <@crythias> 1. I've been using web GUI for years, installed it at least 30 times.  (From the 4 series on up)
04:56 <@crythias> 2. The server is basically a RH 9 box with serveral udpate
04:56 <@crythias> apache 2.0.54
04:56 <@crythias> perl 5.8.0
04:56 <@crythias> mysql 5.0.18
04:56 <@crythias> webgui latest verision
04:56 < cluge> thats me
04:56 <@crythias> ok - that won't be too painful to udpate
04:56 <@crythias> The problem is that it's not even connecting to the SQL server.  It's as if the DSN isn't correct, or that it can't read the config file (which it can)
04:57 <@crythias> nssgerald: any error messages?
04:57 <@crythias> (21:50:27) Cluge1669: yeah - when running testCodebase.pl :Can't connect to data source , no database driver specified and DBI_DSN env var not set a
04:57 <@crythias> (21:50:43) nssgerald: ok
04:58 <@crythias> so... self?
04:58 <@self> what
04:58 <@crythias> can you help?
04:58 < cluge> any idears on my problem?
04:58 <@crythias> I don't know what to check.
04:58 <@crythias> cluge: is this a new install?
04:59 < cluge> it is for this version of webgui
04:59 < cluge> I'm also running an older 5.8.1 useing speedy CGI on the same box
04:59 <@self> hold on 2 sec
04:59 < cluge> I've run several concurrent webguis even with different versions in the past without issue
05:00 <@self> what's the exact command you're typing to run testCodebase
05:00 <@crythias> the new one require major changes to httpd.conf
05:00 < cluge> perl testCodebase.pl --configFile /var/www/www2.flaglermoms.com/WebGUI/etc/www2
05:00 <@self> no .conf??
05:00 <@self> I think it needs it.
05:01 < cluge> yeah, thats why I'm running the old with speedy CGI, so it won't interfere with mod perl
05:01 < cluge> no .conf
05:01 <@snapcount> doesn't your config file end in .conf?
05:01 < cluge> ok, will change the name and update index.pl
05:01 <@crythias> yeah. the parser looks for .conf's.
05:01 < cluge> stand by
05:01 <@crythias> index.pl is useless in 6.8.3
05:01 <@self> index.pl shouldn't exist in 6.8.3
05:02 < cluge> ok.....
05:02 < cluge> just use the pre init in the httpd.conf?
05:03 <@self> preload.perl, you mean?
05:03 < cluge> PerlInitHandler WebGUI
05:03 <@self> oh yeah.  no wre.
05:03 <@self> hold on
05:03 -!- phobia [n=phobia@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has quit ["Create like a God, Command like a King, Work like a Slave <k!15b8>"]
05:04 <@self> familiar tagline.
05:04 <@snapcount> yeah...
05:04 <@snapcount> that's the old one
05:04 <@snapcount> he's rejecting realities now a days
05:04 <@self> yeah.
05:04 <@crythias> Poit
05:04 <@self> Nark.
05:04 <@snapcount> so our bot is now at 7.0
05:04 <@self> Narf.
05:05 <@crythias> Egads
05:05 <@snapcount> !bash
05:05 <@WRE> |bash 2680| ~ frOsty- giggles.. in a manly, tesrosterone-filled sort of way. 
05:05 <@self> cluge:
05:05 <@self> do you have this in httpd.conf? 
05:05 <@self> PerlSetVar WebguiRoot /data/WebGUI
05:05 <@self> PerlRequire /data/wre/prereqs/apache/conf/startup.pl
05:05 <@self> PerlCleanupHandler Apache2::SizeLimit
05:05 <@self> PerlRequire /data/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl
05:06 <@self> you don't necessarily need the SizeLimit
05:06 <@self> (with adjusted paths)
05:06 <@crythias> woe
05:06 <@self> and
05:06 <@self> Alias /extras /data/WebGUI/www/extras
05:07 <@crythias> Chapelle Show doing spot on Matrix parity.
05:07 < cluge> yeah looking now
05:07 <@self> parody?
05:07 <@crythias> yeah. that, too.
05:07 < cluge> the perl Require is new
05:07 <@snapcount> self: you can run 6.8.x concurrent with older versions?
05:07 < cluge> to me that is
05:08 <@self> here's my startup.pl
05:08 < cluge> remember I'm running the old version with speedy CGI
05:08 <@self> for reference.
05:08 <@crythias> yeah. the gotcha.txt is a must read.
05:08 <@self> actually; startup.pl is unneeded for you too.
05:08 <@self> just preload.perl is needed.
05:09 < cluge> well web server restarted without too much bitching
05:09 < cluge> stand by
05:09 < cluge> nope - falls back to default test page, and of course :)  perl testCodebase.pl --configFile /var/www/www2.flaglermoms.com/WebGUI/etc/www2 provides the same error as before
05:10 <@self> did you add the .conf?
05:10 < cluge> err  perl testCodebase.pl --configFile /var/www/www2.flaglermoms.com/WebGUI/etc/www2.conf now :P
05:10 <@self> k :p
05:10 <@self> did you try testEnvironment.pl
05:10 <@self> b/c testCodebase is for developers testing stuff.
05:10 < cluge> totally clean
05:11 <@self> testCodebase can be destructive to your db.
05:11 <@self> clean?
05:11 < cluge> yeah, I peaked in the testCodebase, and at least it gives me a little more enlightening errors
05:11 <@self> all okay
05:11 < cluge> clean - as in all OK
05:11 <@self>      --configFile          The config file of the WebGUI site you'll use
05:11 <@self>                     to test the codebase. Note that you should not
05:11 <@self>                     use a production config file as some tests may
05:11 <@self>                     be destructive.
05:13 <@self> um
05:13 <@self> what webgui version is your site db
05:13 < cluge> this is a fresh install
05:13 <@self> oh ok.
05:14 <@self> default create.sql
05:14 < cluge> Yep
05:14 <@self> ignore the results of the testCodebase
05:14 <@self> did testEnvironment.pl find your config file?
05:15 <@self> oh, of course not.
05:15 <@self> b/c your config file isn't under
05:15 < cluge> no I changed the testEnvironment path so that it could find it :)
05:15 <@self> oh ok.
05:16 <@self> just to confirm
05:17 < cluge> yep
05:17 <@self> does testEnvironment output "Verifying database connection"
05:17 < cluge> yes
05:18 < cluge> which is why my forehead hurts
05:18  * self is installing 2005 Dec 02 Longhorn Server build 5270.
05:18 <@self> on a virtual machine.
05:18  * cluge is sorry for self
05:18  * cluge likes his puns
05:18 -!- self is now known as self_
05:19 -!- self_ is now known as freenodeAdmin
05:19 <@freenodeAdmin> anyway.
05:19 <@freenodeAdmin> okay.
05:20 <@freenodeAdmin> did you add the PerlInitHandler line?
05:20 < cluge> yes
05:20 <@freenodeAdmin> paste the vhost
05:21 -!- snapcount [i=snapcoun@64-193-14-144.dtb.clearwire-dns.net] has quit []
05:22 <@freenodeAdmin> here's mine.
05:22 < cluge> <VirtualHost 209.208.36.150:80>
05:22 < cluge>         ServerName www2.flaglermoms.com
05:22 < cluge>         DocumentRoot /var/www/www2.flaglermoms.com/WebGUI/www
05:22 < cluge>         Alias /extras /var/www/www2.flaglermoms.com/WebGUI/WebGUI/www/extras
05:22 < cluge>         SetHandler perl-script
05:22 < cluge>         PerlInitHandler WebGUI
05:22 < cluge>         PerlSetVar WebguiConfig www2.conf
05:22 < cluge>         PerlRequire /var/www/www2.flaglermoms.com/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl
05:22 < cluge>         ErrorLog /var/www/www2.flaglermoms.com/logs/error_log
05:22 < cluge>         CustomLog /var/www/www2.flaglermoms.com/logs/access_log combined
05:22 < cluge> </VirtualHost>
05:22 -!- snapcount [i=snapcoun@64-193-14-144.dtb.clearwire-dns.net] has joined #webgui
05:22 < cluge> BAH
05:22 < cluge> I see the f&*@#&*@* problem
05:22 < cluge> brb
05:23 <@freenodeAdmin> your conf file really needs to be in $webguiRoot.'../etc/'
05:23 <@freenodeAdmin> crythias: see the problem with not using /data/ ? ;p
05:24 <@crythias> wow
05:24 <@freenodeAdmin> crythias: j/k
05:24 <@crythias> and why is webgui under a domain instead ...
05:24 < cluge> yeah
05:24 < cluge> no worries
05:24 < cluge> works like a charm now
05:24 <@freenodeAdmin> oh good.
05:24 < cluge> the problem was simple
05:25 <@freenodeAdmin> what was it.
05:25 < cluge> I had 2 different perl preloads
05:25 < snapcount> &op
05:25 < cluge> one that I thought was commetted out wasn't
05:25 < cluge> the comment was one line off
05:25 <@crythias> oops
05:25 <@freenodeAdmin> so you have 6.8.3 up and running?
05:25 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by WRE
05:25 < cluge> Yes
05:25 <@freenodeAdmin> Congratulations!
05:25 < cluge> looks like a small path issue with extras
05:25 <@freenodeAdmin> the installation is not trivial.
05:25 < cluge> but I can fix that
05:25  * crythias does a fancy dance.
05:26  * freenodeAdmin quotes from /home.
05:26 < cluge> I've done it so many times, that when this one stuck me, I thought I was going crazy
05:26 <@crythias> FNC DNCR
05:26 <@freenodeAdmin> NUD DNCR
05:26 <@crythias> ITZABOY
05:27 <@crythias> HUZLINE
05:27 <@freenodeAdmin> STRCHMRKS
05:28 <@snapcount> SKIDMRK
05:28 <@freenodeAdmin> BASHQUOT
05:28 < cluge> ok thank you guys
05:28 <@crythias> :)
05:28 < cluge> I'll go finish the rest of it
05:28 <@freenodeAdmin> have fun
05:28 <@snapcount> may the force be with you
05:28 < cluge> guess I just needed to have a second set of eyes
05:28 <@freenodeAdmin> FORCEME
05:28 <@crythias> Peace and long life
05:28 <@snapcount> hehe
05:29 <@snapcount> live long and prosper
05:29 <@freenodeAdmin> PERLDOC
05:29 < cluge> Live long and prosper - AND - may you live in interesting times
05:29 <@crythias> PODWRTR
05:29 <@snapcount> whoa
05:29 <@crythias> 2DA GD 2DI
05:30 <@freenodeAdmin> 2GA4U
05:30 <@crythias> ^URTYPE
05:31 <@freenodeAdmin> BUTT ER  ?
05:31 <@crythias> PARKAY
05:31 <@freenodeAdmin> MARYKAY
05:32 <@freenodeAdmin> MILKME
05:32 <@snapcount> BUTT RKT
05:32 <@snapcount> (.wmv)
05:32 <@crythias> TIMWSTR
05:32 <@crythias> or .. TYMWSTR
05:32 <@freenodeAdmin> IRC LRKR
05:32 <@snapcount> BUNGHLE
05:33 <@freenodeAdmin> aw; c'mon; they've gotta get by the censors.
05:33 <@freenodeAdmin> so there have to be 2 meanings.
05:33 <@freenodeAdmin> plausible deniability.
05:33 <@snapcount> !g bunghole
05:33 <@WRE> Google Book Search @ http://books.google.com/books?q=bunghole&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&sa=N&tab=wp 
05:33 <@crythias> TPS RPRT
05:33 <@snapcount> it's where the whiskey comes out of
05:33 <@snapcount> duh
05:33 <@crythias> yeah
05:34 <@freenodeAdmin> oh.
05:34 <@freenodeAdmin> didn't know.
05:34 <@crythias> Wizard of Id
05:34 <@snapcount> BUNG PLG
05:34 <@freenodeAdmin> there you go.
05:34 <@snapcount> (that stops the whiskey from coming out)
05:34 <@freenodeAdmin> obviously.
05:34 <@crythias> FUJ STPR
05:34 <@crythias> too bad?
05:34 <@freenodeAdmin> ENMA BAG
05:35 <@snapcount> gross
05:35 <@freenodeAdmin> yeah.
05:35 <@snapcount> that crossed the line
05:35 <@crythias> KLOSTME
05:35  * freenodeAdmin ashamedly backs back over the line.
05:35 <@snapcount> nice
05:35 <@snapcount> MR HNKY
05:36 <@crythias> XMASPOO
05:37 <@crythias> COF A LNG
05:38 <@crythias> SNZN WZN
05:38 <@freenodeAdmin> PPING TOM
05:38 <@snapcount> CRCH ROT
05:40 <@freenodeAdmin> LONRWIFE
05:40 <@crythias> VOYEUR
05:41 <@freenodeAdmin> DOCBRWN
05:41 <@freenodeAdmin> OUTTATIME
05:41 <@crythias> BTTF123
05:41 <@crythias> FLUXCAP
05:41 <@snapcount> DBL HELX
05:41 <@crythias> EINSTIN
05:42 <@crythias> GENETICS
05:42 <@freenodeAdmin> MSFT HTR
05:42 <@crythias> I CLONE U
05:43 <@snapcount> U CLNE ME
05:43 <@crythias> WMF VIRII
05:43 <@crythias> I'm schizophrenic... and so am I.
05:44 <@crythias> I got fired at my job at an OJ factory. I couldn't concentrate.
05:44 <@crythias> I got fired at my job at a doorknob factory. Couldn't get a handle on it.
05:45 <@crythias> Then there was the fire hydrant factory. Didn't know where to park.
05:46 <@crythias> What did the grape say when the elephant sat on it? Nothing. it just let out a little wine.
05:51 <@freenodeAdmin> topic WebGUI vs. WebPhooey
05:53 <@crythias> php is SO much faster
05:53 <@crythias> and everyone else is doing it!
06:06 <@freenodeAdmin> php is the bomb.
06:06 <@freenodeAdmin> la BOMBA
06:12 <@freenodeAdmin> U8BOOGR
06:14 <@freenodeAdmin> SMSHBROS
06:17 <@freenodeAdmin> PPLEATR
06:19 <@freenodeAdmin> NCROPHIL
06:19 <@freenodeAdmin> you still there, cluge?
06:25 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
06:25 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by xdanger
06:25 <@rizen> how many bots do we have on here?
06:29 <@snapcount> at least one million
06:29 <@snapcount> give or take 999,998
06:30 <@snapcount> !bash
06:30 <@WRE> |bash 4198| <RevQuixo> i want a mario game where you do actual plumbing
06:30 <@WRE> |bash 4198| <RevQuixo> oh, did i mention i was gay? 
06:30 <@rizen> it's funny the number of people then that are just squatting here
06:30 <@snapcount> I think there are two bots
06:30 <@rizen> i wonder if that's true for the irc channels of other projects
06:30 <@snapcount> the rest are real
06:30 <@rizen> !bat
06:30 <@rizen> !bash
06:30 <@WRE> |bash 7005| <Rikhei> I am *not* a pricktease
06:30 <@WRE> |bash 7005| <K`shandra> oh - you follow through.  Okay. ;-) 
06:30 <@rizen> !bang
06:30 <@freenodeAdmin> !bash
06:30 <@WRE> |bash 7065| <skatoni> will some one please help
06:30 <@rizen> so what is special about bash
06:31 <@WRE> |bash 7065| <shev> ya?
06:31 <@WRE> |bash 7065| <skatoni> there is a guy hacking into my computer
06:31 <@WRE> |bash 7065| <shev> unplug your modem
06:31 <@WRE> |bash 7065| <skatoni> how?
06:31 <@WRE> |bash 7065| <shev> see those wires behind your computer?
06:31 <@WRE> |bash 7065| <shev> rip'em all out
06:31 <@WRE> |bash 7065| *** skatoni has quit IRC (Read error to skatoni[ppp012.rosenet.net]: Connection reset by peer) 
06:31 <@freenodeAdmin> !bash
06:31 <@WRE> |bash 7526| <Cerebus> when i go on a rampage killing all women on the planet, i'll spare you
06:31 <@WRE> |bash 7526| <yunicus> yer a dear heart
06:31 <@WRE> |bash 7526| <yunicus> really
06:31 <@WRE> |bash 7526| <yunicus> please leave me with a bunch of stinky men 
06:31 <@snapcount> !gg webgui support
06:31 <@WRE> Webgui error: Unexpected Error: Shutti @ http://groups.google.com/group/alt.satellite.direcpc/browse_thread/thread/2b8af6a8fbaa12b8 | Bug#139749: preliminary webgui package @ http://groups.google.com/group/linux.debian.bugs.dist/browse_thread/thread/a19e27b73171c21e | Opinions sought: PHP+MySQL CMS @ http://groups.google.com/group/aus.computers.linux/browse_thread/thread/e0b172cfad7c47e8 
06:31 <@snapcount> !seen rizen
06:31 <@WRE> snapcount, rizen is right here!
06:32 <@rizen> !seen snapcount
06:32 <@WRE> rizen, snapcount is right here!
06:32 <@rizen> !seen mdawg
06:32 <@WRE> rizen, I don't remember seeing mdawg.
06:32 <@rizen> !seen perlDreamer
06:32 <@rizen> oop, i killed him
06:32 <@snapcount> he doesn't know you
06:32 <@rizen> !seen me
06:32 <@WRE> rizen, I don't remember seeing me.
06:32 <@snapcount> you pissed him off by asking so many questions
06:33 <@rizen> !seen perlDreamer
06:33 <@rizen> he just doesn't like me asking about perlDreamer
06:33 <@rizen> !seen perldreamer
06:33 <@snapcount> !horoscope aquarius
06:33 <@WRE> Aquarius; <span id="intelliTxt">No matter how tempting, don't succumb to shopping sprees, second helpings or any other temptations that you know you'll have to pay for later. You're not the best judge of what's good for you right now.</span>
06:33 <@rizen> !seen mother
06:33 <@WRE> rizen, I don't remember seeing mother.
06:33 <@rizen> !help
06:33 <@rizen> !man
06:34 <@rizen> how do i get a command list?
06:34 <@snapcount> "/msg WRE help"
06:34 <@rizen> i can't /msg
06:34 <@rizen> at least not with this client
06:34 <@snapcount> really?
06:34 <@snapcount> what client?
06:35 <@rizen> it's an IM client
06:35 <@rizen> that happens to also connect to irc
06:35 <@rizen> it's called Fire
06:35 <@snapcount> at least the name doesn't suck
06:35 <@rizen> it's pretty cool for most things
06:35 <@rizen> just not very good at irc
06:35 <@snapcount> ahh
06:35 <@rizen> i can do some basic stuff
06:35 <@rizen> with irc
06:36 <@rizen> i can click on my own name
06:36  * rizen can emote
06:36  * rizen can change nick
06:36  * rizen can change topic
06:36  * rizen can kick
06:36  * rizen promote/demote
06:36 <@rizen> etc
06:37 <@rizen> but can't do any other /commands
06:37 <@rizen> if it's not available through right clicking
06:37 <@rizen> then it's not available
06:37 <@snapcount> ahh
06:37 <@rizen> cool
06:37 <@rizen> it has text to speech
06:37 <@rizen> i just enabled it
06:38 <@rizen> so it now tells me whatever you say
06:38 <@freenodeAdmin> he killed Kenny
06:38 <@snapcount> you are gay
06:38 -!- mode/#webgui [+v WRE] by rizen
06:39 <@rizen> this rocks
06:39 <@rizen> i can have it read back the entire log to me
06:39 <@snapcount> "Four score and seven years ago..."
06:40 <@snapcount> well, I'm still learning this bot
06:40 <@rizen> !swear
06:40 <@snapcount> "!g something" will do a google search for something
06:40 <@rizen> !g cars
06:40 <@snapcount> "!gg" google groups
06:40 <@WRE> Advanced Search @ /url?sa=U&start=1&si=0&oi=smap&q=http://www.cars.com/go/search/advanced_search.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&aff=national | Google Book Search @ http://books.google.com/books?q=cars&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&sa=N&tab=wp 
06:41 <@snapcount> "!gb" google books
06:41 <@snapcount> .wx will do weather
06:41 <@snapcount> but it's broken right now
06:41 <@snapcount> it will op people, kick them, ban them, etc
06:42 <@snapcount> !traffic
06:44 <@rizen> !traffic
06:44 <@rizen> .wx
06:44 <@rizen> !wx
06:44 <@rizen> !kill snapcount
06:44 <@rizen> !kick snapcount
06:44 <@rizen> !fuck snapcount
06:46 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@199.107.160.242] has joined #webgui
06:47 < perlDreamer> mighty quiet tonight
06:47 <@snapcount> &kick rizen
06:47 -!- rizen was kicked from #WebGUI by WRE [Requested by snapcount]
06:47 <@snapcount> this is great
06:48 <@snapcount> &chaninfo
06:50 <@snapcount> &info
06:50 <@snapcount> !info
06:51 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@199.107.160.242] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]
06:58 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
06:58 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by xdanger
06:58 -!- mode/#webgui [-o snapcount] by rizen
06:58 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by WRE
06:58 -!- mode/#webgui [-o snapcount] by rizen
06:58 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by WRE
06:58 <@rizen> &kick snapcount
06:58 <@rizen> doood
06:58 <@rizen> this bot sux
06:59 <@snapcount> it doesn't listen to you
06:59 <@snapcount> I don't know how to make it listen to you is the funny part
06:59 <@snapcount> we should set our bots to fight one another
06:59 <@snapcount> robot warz
07:00 <@crythias>  /msg nickserv register <password>
07:00 <@snapcount> random?
07:01 <@crythias> JT: ask snapcount. msg is turned off by default.
07:01 <@snapcount> I'm so lost right now
07:01 <@crythias> sorry
07:01 <@crythias> it was phobia
07:01 <@crythias> phobia: *** Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )
07:02 <@snapcount> oh 
07:02 <@snapcount> you can turn that off
07:02 <@snapcount> "/msg nickserv unfiltered on"
07:02 <@snapcount> no quotes
07:02 <@crythias> JT was saying that the /msg didn't work....
07:02 <@snapcount> oh
07:02 <@snapcount> that's his client
07:02 <@snapcount> it sux0rz
07:02 <@crythias> don't know. my /msg isn't working on gaim, either.
07:03 <@snapcount> he's using Mac earth wind and fire or something
07:03 <@crythias> Fire.
07:03 <@crythias> I heard that there is another adium or something that is better.??
07:03 <@snapcount> I know zero about mac
07:04 <@snapcount> except that it runs on top of a BSD variant
07:04 <@snapcount> which makes it a little cool
07:05 <@WRE> I didn't get a control panel for christmas <tear>
07:05 <@rizen> yeah, i'm using fire
07:05 <@freenodeAdmin> "...mommy and daddy.... are mad..."
07:05 <@rizen> i was using adium
07:05 <@WRE> JT is mean to me
07:06 <@rizen> did you make the bot cry?
07:06 <@WRE> I'm not crying
07:06 <@WRE> Would you like to play a game?
07:06 <@crythias> gnite.
07:06 <@freenodeAdmin> game
07:07 <@WRE> How about a nice game of Tic-Tac-Toe?
07:07 <@crythias> Let's play globalthermonuclear war
07:07 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #webgui []
07:07 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has quit ["Gnite."]
07:07 <@snapcount> he's desperately searching for a client that doesn't suck
07:15 <@snapcount> !seen rizen
07:15 <@WRE> rizen (n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net) was last seen parting #WebGUI 7 minutes ago stating "{}".
07:16 -!- snapcount [i=snapcoun@64-193-14-144.dtb.clearwire-dns.net] has left #webgui []
07:17 -!- snapcount [i=snapcoun@64-193-14-144.dtb.clearwire-dns.net] has joined #webgui
07:17 < snapcount> &op
07:17 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by WRE
07:19 <@freenodeAdmin> !bash 117002
07:19 <@WRE> |bash| <YuFFie> SO U HACKING ME THEN HUH
07:19 <@WRE> |bash| <YuFFie> WElL I GOT NEWS FOR U MISTER I GOT MORE FIREWALL POWERS NOW SO IM SECURE AND IM USING WINDOWS 98 SO IM REALLY SECURE FROM HACKERS LIKE YOU SO YOU BETTA JUST GIVE UP CUZ U GOT NO HOPE MISTER.
07:19 <@WRE> |bash| * YuFFie (~mirc@3B942731.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net) Quit (Quit: Owned.)
07:19 <@WRE> |bash| * YuFFie (~mirc@3B942731.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net) has joined #
07:19 <@WRE> |bash| <YuFFie> HELP MY MOUSE IS MOVING BY IT SELF 
07:21 <@freenodeAdmin> !bash 580162
07:21 <@WRE> !bash: quote has too many lines to display in public channel (max 12, quote has 23): sending as privmsg instead
07:26 <@snapcount> !find myBallz
07:26 <@snapcount> !seen myBallz
07:26 <@WRE> snapcount, I don't remember seeing myballz.
07:27 <@snapcount> !seen yourBallz
07:27 <@WRE> snapcount, I don't remember seeing yourballz.
07:31 -!- snapcount [i=snapcoun@64-193-14-144.dtb.clearwire-dns.net] has quit []
08:30 -!- freenodeAdmin [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
09:07 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
09:07 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by xdanger
09:08 -!- rizen changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI Discussion
09:08 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #webgui []
09:25 -!- lonki_home is now known as lonki
09:31 < lonki> morning
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11:12 -!- lenthamen [n=len@82-148-208-20.fiber.unet.nl] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]
11:13 -!- lenthamen [n=len@82-148-208-20.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #webgui
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16:18 -!- bbwwicci [n=bbwdii@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui
16:20 -!- bbwwicci is now known as mdawg
16:23 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui
16:23 -!- lenthamen [n=len@82-148-208-20.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #webgui
16:23 < mdawg> ah, the usual suspects arrive.
16:24 < crythias> COF COF
16:25 < mdawg> HIC CUP
16:26 < mdawg> xbox 360 was hacked.
16:27 < mdawg> they'll have bootable linux DVDR5 iso's making the net rounds within a week or two.
16:27 < lonki> what else is new? it's microsoft :-)
16:27  * lonki runs
16:27 < lonki> good morning 
16:27 < mdawg> hello.
16:28 <@xdanger> good afternoon =)
16:28 -!- mode/#webgui [+oo crythias mdawg] by xdanger
16:28 -!- Irssi: #webgui: Total of 7 nicks [4 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 3 normal]
16:29 -!- zmk [n=zaphod@dsl46-47.uninet.ee] has joined #webgui
16:31 -!- zmk [n=zaphod@dsl46-47.uninet.ee] has quit [Client Quit]
16:32 <@mdawg> anyone know how to tell mirc to show timestamps?
16:33 <@mdawg> and no, i won't rtfm.
16:58 <@crythias> don't know. don't care. Gaim does.
17:03 < lonki> what is mirc?
17:05 <@mdawg> nm
17:12 < lenthamen> hello all. 
17:12 < lenthamen> I believe there's no game console that isn't hacked already ;)
17:13 < lenthamen> gaim rulez
17:14 < lenthamen> lonki: Do you have a WebGUI install on Mac available right now ? 
17:15 < lonki> lenthamen, not now, I'm still in Almere :-)
17:16 < lonki> But yes, I do have one running at home
17:16 < lenthamen> lonki: Ok, because I was interested if the memory leak I have is reproducable on mac OS.
17:17 < lenthamen> As macOS is derived from BSD.
17:17 < lonki> I can test that tonight
17:18 < lonki> since I cannot ssh into that workstation, only my server
17:18 < lenthamen> ok.
17:20 < lonki> lenthamen, it is weird though, we had simular probs on linux
17:20 < lenthamen> Which kernel ?
17:21 < lonki> let me check, I though the 2.4.x
17:22 < lonki> Linux webgui 2.4.21-32.EL
17:23 < lenthamen> I'm running 2.6.9-22.ELsmp and I can't reproduce it on that box
17:24 < lonki> I will try it at home later today
17:24 < lenthamen> ok
17:42  * lonki submits a new bug
17:50 < lonki> lenthamen, will you be online tonight? I can test it somewhere around 21:00 our time
17:51 < lonki> I'm off, going home, laterzzzz
17:51 -!- lonki is now known as lonki_home
18:31 -!- mike_s [n=mike@s205-206-123-62.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #webgui
18:31 -!- mode/#webgui [+o mike_s] by xdanger
18:35 -!- onioncoder [n=mike@s205-206-123-62.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #webgui
18:35 -!- mode/#webgui [+o onioncoder] by xdanger
18:35 -!- mike_s [n=mike@s205-206-123-62.ab.hsia.telus.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
18:49  * lenthamen has finished his working day and goes home.
18:49 -!- snapcount [i=snapcoun@64-193-14-144.dtb.clearwire-dns.net] has joined #webgui
18:50 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by WRE
18:50 -!- lenthamen [n=len@82-148-208-20.fiber.unet.nl] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]
19:55 <@mdawg> snapcount
19:59 <@snapcount> yes
20:03 -!- macOnki [n=hanswolt@lonki.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui
20:03 < macOnki> hi
20:03 <@snapcount> hello
20:09 <@snapcount> mdawg: my AIM is snapc0unt if you're having troubles with dcc 
20:20 <@snapcount> !bash
20:20 <@WRE> |bash 9662| corpratewar: gah, why would somebody encode a song @ 28kbps 
20:20 <@WRE> |bash 9662| arkain88: Thats so small it could fit through a condom. 
20:20 <@snapcount> !bofh
20:20 <@WRE> BOFH Quick-excuse: Police are examining all internet packets in the search for a narco-net-traficer
20:21 <@snapcount> whoa
20:21 <@snapcount> have any of you guys seen google today?
20:21 <@snapcount> their logo is in braile
20:22 <@snapcount> the raised bumps are not translating correctly through my monitor however
20:22 <@snapcount> I can't feel them
20:22 < macOnki> !cluebat
20:22 < macOnki> :-)
20:23 <@snapcount> WRE has much to learn
20:23 <@snapcount> he is but a minimalist at present with few tricks
20:28 <@snapcount> !seen rizen
20:28 <@WRE> rizen (n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net) was last seen parting #WebGUI 11 hours, 19 minutes ago stating "{}".
21:13 -!- snapcount [i=snapcoun@64-193-14-144.dtb.clearwire-dns.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:23 -!- crythia1 [n=gyoung@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
21:23 -!- mode/#webgui [+o crythia1] by xdanger
21:24 -!- crythias was kicked from #webgui by crythia1 [crythia1]
21:24 <@crythia1> oops
21:27 <@crythia1> !bash
21:27 <@WRE> |bash 10499| * go_boy getting his haujobb on
21:27 <@WRE> |bash 10499| <jej> i read that as 'handjob'
21:27 <@WRE> |bash 10499| <go_boy> i assumed you would
21:27 <@WRE> |bash 10499| <jej> you can always count on me.
21:27 <@WRE> |bash 10499| <go_boy> for a handjob?
21:27 <@WRE> |bash 10499| <jej> of course.
21:27 <@WRE> |bash 10499| <go_boy> rockin. 
21:28 <@crythia1> interesting.
21:28 <@crythia1> !help
21:28 <@crythia1> !bash
21:28 <@WRE> |bash 10732| <Locke> Thats three nights in a row I've been awake and glanced at the clock and seen 3:14 and thought 'Hahaha, it's Pi Time. Man Pi Time, how lame, I can't believe I thought that' 
21:33 <@mdawg> !bash
21:33 <@WRE> |bash 26778| <LunchPailTree> the moral of this story is: if you have no morals, go get yourself a 12 year old friend so you can fuck her after you drug her 
21:34 <@crythia1> hrm.
21:34 <@crythia1> tasteless much?
21:35 <@mdawg> yeah.
21:35 <@mdawg> sry; not my fault.
21:35 <@mdawg> !bash
21:35 <@WRE> |bash 33616| <ohyeah> i hate sex.
21:35 <@WRE> |bash 33616| <niggals> WHAT?!!! WHY?!!!!!!!!!!
21:35 <@WRE> |bash 33616| <ohyeah> because it isn't moral and christian
21:35 <@WRE> |bash 33616| <ohyeah> and its killing youth 
21:35 <@WRE> |bash 33616| <ohyeah> and its the cause for many diseases
21:35 <@WRE> |bash 33616| <ohyeah> and so many people who are underage are having it
21:35 <@WRE> |bash 33616| <niggals> well then how the fuck come your sn is 'oh yeah'
21:35 <@WRE> |bash 33616| <ohyeah>  i can't talk to you! 
21:35 <@mdawg> they just get better and better.
21:35 <@crythia1> while your at it... fire missiles from an airplane running into a building.
21:36 <@mdawg> heh.
21:36 <@mdawg> speaking of which, I watched that whole video.
21:36 <@crythia1> and
21:36 <@mdawg> interesting.
21:37 <@crythia1> the flash couldn't possibly be the reflection of the plane against the windows...
21:37 <@mdawg> downloading the hires version now, to burn on a dvd for my dad.
21:37 -!- onioncoder [n=mike@s205-206-123-62.ab.hsia.telus.net] has left #webgui []
21:37 <@mdawg> who was onioncoder
21:37 <@crythia1> beats me.
21:37 -!- freenodeAdmin [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui
21:37 -!- mode/#webgui [+o freenodeAdmin] by xdanger
21:37 -!- mdawg [n=bbwdii@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has left #webgui []
21:38 -!- freenodeAdmin is now known as msnort
21:38 <@crythia1> the heck?
21:39 < macOnki> msnort, is that you lilo?
21:39 <@msnort> not lilo
21:39 < macOnki> k
21:39 <@crythia1> matthew.
21:39 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
21:39 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by xdanger
21:39 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #webgui []
21:39 <@crythia1> oh... kay.
21:40 <@crythia1> !bash
21:40 <@WRE> |bash 35923| <CzarKhan> well I have like 20 pillows and two teddy-bears but it's really like alone 
21:40 <@crythia1> the wha?
21:41 <@crythia1> BSG coming this week!
21:42 <@crythia1> !faq
21:43 <@msnort> GOOG8ME
21:50 <@crythia1> SPAMDLR
21:50 <@crythia1> SHOOTME
21:50 <@crythia1> SLOPOKE
21:51 <@msnort> RNMEOVER
21:51 <@msnort> LOVETAP
21:51 <@crythia1> RTBLNKR
21:51 <@crythia1> BLUHAIR
21:51 <@crythia1> LO RYDR
21:51 <@crythia1> LOWRYDR
21:52 <@msnort> PPLMOWR
21:52 <@crythia1> TRFCJAM
21:52 <@crythia1> LYT RNNR
21:53 <@msnort> SQUIRTS
21:53 <@crythia1> URAPIG
21:53 <@crythia1> SUPRMAN
21:53 <@crythia1> SPRMODL
21:53 <@msnort> TRAINWRK
21:54 <@msnort> HOMWRKR
21:54 <@msnort> ARBTN DR
21:54 <@msnort> ABRTN DR
21:54 <@crythia1> ?
21:54 <@crythia1> oh
21:54 <@crythia1> nasty
21:56 <@crythia1> CHM BUKT
21:56 <@msnort> as in, shark bait?
21:56 <@crythia1> yeah
21:56 <@msnort> k
21:58 <@crythia1> MLTG POT
21:58 <@msnort> RACIST
21:58 <@msnort> HOMOFOBE
21:59 <@msnort> GENOCIDAL
21:59 <@crythia1> WHITEY
22:00 <@msnort> HARPO H8R
22:01 <@crythia1> LAME TAG
22:05 -!- crythia1 is now known as crythias
22:06 <@crythias> that was tedious.
22:10 <@crythias> DSFNXNL
22:11 <@crythias> USEWBGUI
22:21 <@msnort> EXECUTOR
22:28 < macOnki> IRCGEEKS
22:37 -!- lenthamen [n=len@adsl-dc-2e425.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #webgui
22:38 < macOnki> hi len
22:38 < lenthamen> hey Hans
22:38 < macOnki> lenthamen, I just tested it, no problem on osx
22:38 < lenthamen> ok. So most likely its only freebsd that has this issue.
22:39 < macOnki> you could try to test it on openbsd
22:39 < lenthamen> btw I've tested it with mod_perl1 too, and same story.
22:39 < macOnki> I used to crash the terena server every 3 days
22:39 < lenthamen> with webgui ?
22:40 < macOnki> no, but it used mod_perl too
22:40 < macOnki> and mysql
22:40 -!- msnort is now known as msnort_afk
22:41 < macOnki> is mod_perl threaded?
22:41 < lenthamen> ah ok. Well, now I know that I shouldn't graceful restart apache on freebsd, I can keep memory usage under control, no problem with that anymore.
22:42 -!- snapcount [i=snapcoun@64-193-14-144.dtb.clearwire-dns.net] has joined #webgui
22:42 < lenthamen> Before a apache crached like every 2 months.
22:42 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by WRE
22:42 < macOnki> I know that openbsd had a simular problem when using mod_php and apache 
22:42 < lenthamen> you can choose to compile perl / mod_perl threaded or not.
22:42 < macOnki> The solution was to switch to Linux :-)
22:43 < lenthamen> I might do that to, but that's not an easy one for us. Well, actually it is easy, it just take a week to reinstall all the boxes.
22:44 < lenthamen> But I kinda like FreeBSD :) 
22:44 < macOnki> how many machines should you migrate in that case?
22:44 < lenthamen> We have 2 boxes running WebGUI
22:45 < lenthamen> But in total 16 systems 
22:45 <@msnort_afk> SMPx8?
22:45 < lenthamen> dual Xeon's I believe.
22:46 < lenthamen> no, we have 2x Squid, 2x Firewall, 2x static content, 2x mysql, etc.
22:46 < lenthamen> so if I move to another platform I likely migrate them all.
22:48 < macOnki> lenthamen, are the mysql machines replicated?
22:48 < lenthamen> macOnki: Good to know that macOs doesn't have that probem though :)
22:48 < lenthamen> yep, master -> slave.
22:48 < macOnki> nice
22:48 < lenthamen> webgui has buildin support to read from multiple slaves.
22:48 < lenthamen> that works fine.
22:49 < lenthamen> Although I got a problem once the slave was like 6 hours out of sync with the master.
22:50 < macOnki> hmm, I must test it too one day
22:50 < lenthamen> I believe, since webgui is using guids for all id's
22:50 < lenthamen> you could run mysql in Master <-> Master replication mode
22:50 < macOnki> yes, I know
22:51 < lenthamen> macOnki: I'm talking English to you like a lunatic while you live like 10 minutes from here, I heard :)
22:52 < macOnki> yes, indeed :-)
22:52 < macOnki> but I do not mind, was an op on #php for 5 years
22:52 < macOnki> and this way the rest of the channel can understand what we are talking about too
22:52 < macOnki> :-)
22:52 < lenthamen> Ok. Are you using php5 yet ?
22:53 < macOnki> I've started the first tests here, not using it very much yet
22:53 < macOnki> together with mysql 5.x
22:54 < macOnki> but the latest version might be worth a good try, is seems to have good pdo support
22:55 < lenthamen> I'm not  using php that much. I'm going to dig into mysql 5 first.
22:56 < macOnki> brb
23:03 <@crythias> SVNLTRS
23:04 <@msnort_afk> ABBRH8R
23:05 <@snapcount> SACDRIP
23:05 <@crythias> NASLDRP
23:06 <@crythias> COF A LNG
23:06 <@crythias> BWLMVMT
23:09 <@msnort_afk> terrible.
23:09 <@msnort_afk> bbl.
23:13 < macOnki> lenthamen, if you have specific mysql questions then #mysql on freenode is a good channel, some of their developers are helping out there
23:15 < lenthamen> ok, don't need it right now, but good to know.
23:17 < macOnki> lenthamen, b.t.w. where do you live in Zeewolde? Our house is on the Laak
23:26 < lenthamen> Almereweg
23:26 < macOnki> that is only 5 minutes :-)
23:27 <@msnort_afk> go have a beer.
23:27 < macOnki> yeah, maybe next time when he is visiting his old friends on a friday afternoon :-)
23:27 < lenthamen> I'm planning to do that for a long time
23:28 < macOnki> you did it a few months ago, but I left the office at 3 p.m.
23:28 < macOnki> lenthamen, did you know that Anouchka left Piramide too?
23:29 < lenthamen> That beer was a good idea btw, I'm going to get one right now.
23:29 < lenthamen> Yeah I heard that
23:29 < lenthamen> Do you have sufficient Linux / php work ? 
23:29 < macOnki> mwoah
23:29 < lenthamen> hehe
23:29 <@msnort_afk> mwoah?
23:29 < macOnki> there isn't a lot of php work there
23:30 < lenthamen> .NET is all that matters
23:30 < macOnki> I took a few Oracle classes
23:30 < macOnki> and I'm busy hacking webgui :-)
23:31 < lenthamen> yeah that's a good thing to do :)  I'm thinking about taking the mysql 5 exams.
23:31 < macOnki> msnort_afk, mwoah is simular to 'not very much'
23:31 < lenthamen> yeah
23:32 < macOnki> they seem to be good yes
23:32 -!- msnort_afk is now known as msnort_notAFK
23:33 < macOnki> there we go, dvd number 8
23:34 < macOnki> brb
23:34 < lenthamen> You sold 8 illegal dvd copies ?  :)
23:36 <@msnort_notAFK> copies of what.
23:39 < macOnki> lenthamen, no, I am the backup dude for the rest of the guys :-)
23:40 < macOnki> we all keep backups so we will not loose any data :-)
23:42 < macOnki> and no, we do not sell any illegal data
23:42 < lenthamen> You know, from the time I worked @ piramide I still have so much dvd copies left that I don't have the time to watch them all.
23:42 < macOnki> haha
23:43 < macOnki> I already have that problem
23:43  * lenthamen has 55 holiday hours left from last year.
23:44 < macOnki> hmm, tomorrow will be a fun day, another windows worm will try to hit the email servers
23:45  * msnort_notAFK runs an email filtering service.
23:45 < macOnki> sober number 123423345345346456456E34543563456456
23:46 < macOnki> msnort_notAFK, I run a blacklist, dns based
23:49 -!- lenthamen [n=len@adsl-dc-2e425.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has left #webgui []
23:50 -!- lenthamen [n=len@adsl-dc-2e425.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #webgui
23:52 < macOnki> hmm, I almost need to order a new spindle, bah
23:56 -!- lenthamen is now known as slim_shady
23:56 < macOnki> lenthamen, did you already move primaat.com?
23:57 < slim_shady> not yet.
23:57 < macOnki> you still need the database dump?
23:57 -!- phobia [n=phobia@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has joined #webgui
23:57 < slim_shady> you mean of the webgui site ?  Nah, don't need it.
23:58 < macOnki> it's still available if you want it, just let us know if we can delete it
23:58 < slim_shady> ok, I do need to move over the dvd database
23:58 < macOnki> it is still available I think
23:58 <@snapcount> phobia
23:58 <@snapcount> what's up man
23:59 < phobia> not much, just got home from the dungeon
23:59 <@snapcount> did you come to teach our bot new tricks
23:59 <@snapcount> ?
23:59 <@snapcount> hehe
--- Day changed Thu Jan 05 2006
00:00 < phobia> maybe I can get that weather script working later tonight
00:00 <@snapcount> that would be cool
00:00 < macOnki> !weather zeewolde :-)
00:01 < phobia> I might be upgrading that box from sarge to etch at some point, hopefully it doesn't break too badly...
00:01 <@snapcount> heh
00:01 <@snapcount> we were discussing interactive apocalypses yesterday
00:02 <@snapcount> you should've been here for that
00:02 < phobia> heh
00:03  * slim_shady doesn't need apocalypses. A stable core would make him happy.
00:11 -!- msnort_notAFK is now known as msnort_bbl
00:23 -!- snapc0unt [i=snapcoun@64-193-14-144.dtb.clearwire-dns.net] has joined #webgui
00:23 -!- snapcount [i=snapcoun@64-193-14-144.dtb.clearwire-dns.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
00:24 -!- snapc0unt is now known as snapcount
00:24 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by WRE
00:44 < slim_shady> Guys my bottle of beer is finished.
00:44 <@snapcount> uh oh
00:44 <@snapcount> kernel panic
00:44 < slim_shady> Guess it's time to sleep...
00:44 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
00:44 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by xdanger
00:45 < macOnki> snapcount, what are you doing? running a 2.8 kernel? :-)
00:45 < macOnki> hi rizen
00:45 < macOnki> sw slim_shady 
00:45 <@rizen> !bang
00:46 <@rizen> howdy
00:46 <@snapcount> !bofh
00:46 <@WRE> BOFH Quick-excuse: The UPS is on strike.
00:46 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #webgui []
00:47 < slim_shady> ttyl guys
00:47 -!- slim_shady [n=len@adsl-dc-2e425.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]
00:51 <@crythias> !bofh
00:51 <@WRE> BOFH Quick-excuse: It's stuck in the Web.
00:51 <@crythias> !bash
00:51 <@WRE> |bash 36180| (Mr_Moppy) I got me some great head last night
00:51 <@WRE> |bash 36180| (Mr_Moppy) Tired the dog out though... she's not used to such vigorous work. 
00:51 <@crythias> I must. stop. this.
00:52 <@crythias> KRNL PNC
00:54 < phobia> who is this kernel panic, and what has he done to my keyboard?!
00:55 <@crythias> Who is General Protection  and why is it his fault?
00:55 < phobia> if you choose 'british english' at install time, does it say "colonel panic" instead?
00:57 < phobia> I think hacking the kernel to make it say "JIHAD!" would be the ultimate
01:00 -!- msnort_bbl [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com"]
01:00 -!- msnort_bbl [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui
01:00 -!- mode/#webgui [+o msnort_bbl] by xdanger
01:00 <@crythias> !bofh
01:00 <@WRE> BOFH Quick-excuse: The CPU has shifted, and become decentralized.
01:01 < phobia> anarchy!
01:01 <@crythias> no kidding. 
01:01 <@crythias> I didn't vote for that to happen.
01:01 < phobia> heh
01:01 -!- msnort_bbl [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit]
01:01 < phobia> I voted for chaos and all I got was this burning T-Shirt
01:02 <@crythias> yeah but you had to wait until all the votes were counted... and every person had to vote, or else it wasn't fair?
01:03 < phobia> the z-axis of the fractal got screwed by hanging chads
01:03 <@crythias> hrm. but you can't force everyone to vote... but those who don't vote are being plagued by the will of the majority...
01:04 < phobia> ...and therefore must be eliminated
01:04 < phobia> :>
01:05 <@crythias> hrm. are we talking about pure democracy anarchy or libertarian anarchy?
01:06 < phobia> I was thinking like, David Banner after too many gamma-rays anarchy :)
01:06 <@crythias> you wouldn't like me if I'm angry anarchy?
01:07 < phobia> maybe more of a Homer Simpson type of anarchy...
01:07 < phobia> where everyone is just lazy and stupid to a fault
01:07 < phobia> oh wait...
01:07 <@crythias> That's socialism.
01:08 < phobia> bwaha
01:08 < phobia> that sounds like the voice of an American if I've ever heard it!
01:08 < phobia> florida...
01:08 < phobia> sunny florida...
01:08 <@crythias> achieve the lowest job that pays the same.
01:09 < phobia> safe under the ever watchfull eye of Mr. Jeb
01:10 <@crythias> Best doctors insurance can buy.
01:10 < phobia> heh
01:12 < phobia> have you seen 'Loose Change'?
01:13 <@crythias> nope
01:13 < phobia> your gubbnahr probably won't like it, but you should check it out
01:13 < phobia> http://ts.searching.com/download.asp?id=497426
01:13 <@crythias> because it's full of fun stuff like missiles on an airplane.
01:14 < phobia> yah, and fun stuff like theft on the scale of hundreds of billions of dollars
01:15 < phobia> professional building demolitions, things of that nature
01:15 <@crythias> stupid idea.
01:15 < phobia> it's like hollywood, but without the sex
01:15 <@crythias> see, aparently the terrorists already tried to bomb the WTC. it wouldn't be unlikely to think that they'd try again.
01:16 < phobia> yah in 1993
01:16 < phobia> I think it was...
01:16 <@crythias> but gee... who'd know it if there were professional demolition teams in your building.
01:16 < phobia> slight difference though, that was a rather uncomplex and ineffective truck-bomb which was made using commonly-available materials...
01:16 < macOnki> night all
01:17 -!- macOnki [n=hanswolt@lonki.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"]
01:17 < phobia> professional demolition with high-powered and precisely engineered and placed explosives on the other hand
01:17 <@crythias> where placed?
01:19 <@crythias> on the exact floor of the place the airplanes crashed?
01:20 < phobia> no...
01:20 < phobia> watch the video, that part is right at the beginning
01:20 < phobia> there were explosives placed along the vertical axis of both buildings, you can see the timed checkerboard explosions on the collapse videos
01:21 < phobia> they were also reported by CNN, ABC, etc. on the day that it happened
01:21 < phobia> as were the secondary explosions in the pentagon...
01:23 <@crythias> pressure of collapsing floors don't explode the windows?
01:23 < phobia> not these explosions...
01:23 < phobia> all the witnesses that escaped with their lives including firemen said that they heard the explosions above them
01:24 < phobia> the official explanation given to them was that it was gas canisters being stored in all the kitchens...
01:24 < phobia> which is beyond absurd
01:24 <@crythias> there was a lot of noise. 
01:24 < phobia> also, jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough even with continuous supply to actually melt steel even in the slightest
01:24 < phobia> when those planes hit, all of their fuel was consumed within a few minutes
01:24 <@crythias> yes. I heard that.
01:25 <@crythias> but that didn't mean the fire didn't stop burning.
01:25 < phobia> there are exaples in the video of DOZENS of big buildings that burned for up to 24 hours without collapsing
01:25 <@crythias> yes, yes, 
01:25 < phobia> in some cases spanning 30+ floors, and reaching the roof
01:25 < phobia> in one case, the roof & top floors collapsed, and the rest held...
01:25 < phobia> all built to far less a standard than those towers were
01:25 <@crythias> I don't suppose the extra weight of an airplane had anything to do with it, nor airpressure.
01:25 < phobia> also multiple examples of large plane crashes into buildings, and none ever fell
01:26 < phobia> the weight of the airplane?  :)
01:26 < phobia> here's the KILLER fact
01:26 < phobia> the time it takes for the collapse to happen, it is measured in the videos
01:26 < phobia> and it is freefall speed
01:26 <@crythias> so.
01:27 < phobia> if it was actually a collapse, and not a demolition, there would have been resistance, and it would have taken much longer
01:27 < phobia> not to mention that they wouldn't have fallen straight down
01:27 < phobia> but even assuming that was a fluke, TWICE
01:27 < phobia> the free-fall speed gives it away beyond any question whatsoever
01:27 <@crythias> really.
01:27 < phobia> anyway I can't lay the facts and questions out as well as this documentary does...
01:28 <@crythias> because what would prevent 1/3rd of the towers from collapsing anything below it?
01:28 < phobia> so check it out and see what you think for yourself
01:28 < phobia> I don't understand your question
01:29 <@crythias> you have the weight of 1/3 of the trade center coming down. you claim resistance.
01:29 < phobia> the towers are constructed of vertical steel+concrete columns, had just the top portion collapsed because of the plane fire, the floors underneath would EACH have offered resistance to the top coming down
01:29 <@crythias> once the first floor collapses, it's all inertia.
01:29 < phobia> it would cumulatively get faster as the weight increased from each floor crashing down
01:30 < phobia> but there is NO resistance, because the floors are demolished from the top down by explosives
01:30 <@crythias> yes.
01:30 < phobia> the roof just falls as if nothing is in the way
01:30 <@crythias> it's called acceleration...
01:30 < phobia> no dude
01:30 < phobia> there is NO example of this in any other collapse ever.
01:30 <@crythias> gravity is m/s^2
01:31 < phobia> yes they use newton's formula in the documentary
01:31 <@crythias> http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/green/loose_change.html
01:31 <@crythias> for you :)
01:32 <@crythias> and, WTC7 had debris fall on it.
01:33 < phobia> hahah my goodness
01:33 < phobia> well
01:33 < phobia> reading these "debunks" at the end just makes me laugh
01:33 <@crythias> ok.
01:33 < phobia> esp this one:  4)    Mr. Avery makes much effort to prove that UA77 did not bounce off the Pentagon lawn.  He even shows photos of other plane crashes that bounced off the ground and what they look like.  The film gives no idea why this is relevant to anyone except, perhaps, the Pentagon gardener.
01:34 < phobia> it's relevant because it is YET ANOTHER piece of evidence that no airplane crash happened there...
01:34 <@crythias> um.
01:34 < phobia> as *all* the eye witnesses were saying the day that it happened, btw
01:34 <@crythias> I'm certain there were no lawn skidmarks in WTC! and 2...
01:34 < phobia> yes because they impacted several hundred feet above ground...
01:35 <@crythias> 20 feet, several hundred feet... why does the lawn matter?
01:36  * phobia blinks in dismay
01:37 <@crythias> Was the official word that the plane bounced into the building?
01:42 <@crythias> OK, easier question: Did Loose Change say that the official word was that the plane bounced?
01:42 <@crythias> Or is it just because a plane didn't bounce, it didn't crash?
01:43 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
01:45 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
01:45 -!- mode/#webgui [+o crythias] by xdanger
01:45 <@crythias> lovely
01:45 <@crythias> gaim dumped core
02:24 -!- msnort_bbl [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui
02:24 -!- mode/#webgui [+o msnort_bbl] by xdanger
02:24 -!- snapcount [i=snapcoun@64-193-14-144.dtb.clearwire-dns.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
02:26 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
02:26 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by xdanger
02:27 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #webgui []
02:28  * crythias caused problems...
02:42 -!- phobia [n=phobia@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has quit ["Create like a God, Command like a King, Work like a Slave <k!15b8>"]
02:50 -!- msnort_bbl [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
02:50 -!- msnort_bbl [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui
02:50 -!- mode/#webgui [+o msnort_bbl] by xdanger
02:50 -!- msnort_bbl is now known as msnort
02:51 <@crythias> heh
02:51 <@crythias> I think I irritated phobia
02:52 <@crythias> 2MUCHTV
02:53 <@msnort> !bash
02:53 <@WRE> |bash 37780| <femakita> I'm fuckable! I deserve bling! 
02:53 <@msnort> !bash
02:53 <@WRE> |bash 37996| <Soberguy> redhat 8 can't decide if  a rpm is installed or not
02:53 <@WRE> |bash 37996| <toxictv> Redhat is like anal sex - good every now and then, but if you rely on it too heavily, it starts to bleed out the ass. 
02:53 <@msnort> !bash
02:53 <@WRE> |bash 41326| <test4> ive been tied up before with ethernet cable to my bedpost 
02:53 <@msnort> !bash
02:54 <@WRE> |bash 42391| <@Phillip> so
02:54 <@WRE> |bash 42391| <@Phillip> ive come up with a rough formula to calculate the chance that a chick at a bar will want to screw me
02:54 <@WRE> |bash 42391| <@Phillip> C=[(p/t)/100]+100(D)
02:54 <@WRE> |bash 42391| <@Phillip> C is the percentage chance that she will want to
02:54 <@WRE> |bash 42391| <@Phillip> p is pi
02:54 <@WRE> |bash 42391| <@Phillip> t is the amount of time in seconds that i talk
02:54 <@WRE> |bash 42391| <@Phillip> and D is how drunk she is 
02:55 <@crythias> somehow... talking more is actually worth it?
02:55 <@msnort> !bash
02:55 <@WRE> |bash 47588| Ibekev: yeah that does, I guess you never really know until you meet someone and I'm not trying to put any assumptions into any of this other than I am willing to meet new people and learn more about myself and them at the same time, I don't think you can go out there looking for you soul mate or whatever, it just happens but it won't happen if you're just sitting on your couch
02:55 <@WRE> |bash 47588| Keli_86: right..i completely agree with you
02:55 <@WRE> |bash 47588| Ibekev: So I guess the rule of thumb is to see this as a way to meet new friends and just see
02:55 <@WRE> |bash 47588| Keli_86: you couldnt have put it any better 
02:55 <@WRE> |bash 47588| Ibekev: cool, so you wanna get naked and put your webcam back on? 
02:56 <@crythias> oh.
02:56 <@msnort> !bash
02:56 <@WRE> |bash 50158| <rising> wow this room is full of losers 
02:56 <@crythias> bad math.
02:56 <@WRE> |bash 50158| <Bored_Catboy> rising, your on IRC.... 
02:56 <@crythias> !bofh
02:56 <@WRE> BOFH Quick-excuse: Sand fleas eating the Internet cables
02:56 <@msnort> !bash
02:56 <@WRE> |bash 51590| <DA_BUTCHER> Annie will you marry me?
02:56 <@WRE> |bash 51590| <DA_BUTCHER> I don't care what gender you are!
02:56 <@WRE> |bash 51590| <|Annie|> shizz
02:57 <@WRE> |bash 51590| <DA_BUTCHER> I'm Greek
02:57 <@WRE> |bash 51590| <|Annie|> that's like the 6th time someone's asked me that in here
02:57 <@WRE> |bash 51590| <|Annie|> I'll get back to you k ._.
02:57 <@WRE> |bash 51590| <Scotch> It's your own fault for making your gender so obvious in your nick
02:57 <@WRE> |bash 51590| <DA_BUTCHER> yes but the others would freak out if you turned out to be a 30 year old wrestler named Bernard 
02:57 <@crythias> Bernard is a great Girl's name.
02:57 <@msnort> my 6th college roommate's name is Bernie
02:58 <@msnort> he went/goes by Bo, however.
02:58 <@crythias> because you've been to 6 colleges?
02:58 <@crythias> :)
02:58 <@msnort> no
02:58 <@msnort> 1st/main college.
02:58 <@crythias> I couldn't keep roommates. Too messy.
02:58 <@msnort> yeah.  roommates are hard to clean up after.
02:58 <@msnort> making like a baby and heading out...
02:59 <@crythias> especially when there hair keeps getting stuck on your tire iron.
02:59 <@crythias> their
02:59 <@msnort> the babies' hair?
02:59 <@crythias> roommates
02:59 <@msnort> your roommates were babies?
03:00 <@crythias> roommates are hard to clean up after, especially when their hair keeps getting stuck on your tire iron.
03:00 <@msnort> why do you keep a tire iron on the bathroom floor.
03:00 <@crythias> who said anything about a bathroom floor?
03:01 <@msnort> oh.  never mind.
03:01 <@msnort> anywayz
03:01 <@msnort> newaz
03:01 <@crythias> GOT2GO
03:01 <@msnort> BEBACKL
03:01 <@crythias> B BAK L8R'
03:02 -!- msnort is now known as finkTurd
03:03 -!- finkTurd is now known as finkTurd_bbl
03:08 -!- snapcount [i=snapcoun@64-193-14-144.dtb.clearwire-dns.net] has joined #webgui
05:00 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
05:00 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by xdanger
05:01 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #webgui []
05:11 <@crythias> !bofh
05:11 <@WRE> BOFH Quick-excuse: The hardware bus needs a new token.
05:12 <@finkTurd_bbl> thought you left crythias
05:12 -!- finkTurd_bbl is now known as funkTired
05:12 < snapcount> I thought you both left
05:12 <@crythias> yeah
05:13 < snapcount> you know we're *really* dorks when we can be found here and rizen is not
05:13 -!- crythias changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI Discussion | http://www.plainblack.com | http://www.gwy2.org/cgi-bin/fom
05:14 <@funkTired> http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/campaigns/people
05:14 <@crythias> and why would this be any differnt than http://www.plainblack.com/discuss ?
05:15 < snapcount> dude
05:16 < snapcount> it's so weird how you get an idea of what someone will look like before you actually know
05:16 <@funkTired> crythias: why and how didn't I/we immediately drive you away from webgui back when you first tried it out.
05:16 < snapcount> like based on their name and personality
05:16 < snapcount> and then are completely shocked when you see their pic
05:16 <@funkTired> yeah, like my pic on aim :p
05:17 <@funkTired> i always knew what gerald looked like.
05:17 <@funkTired> he always had his avatar/signature.
05:17 <@funkTired> i was surprised by colin.
05:17 <@crythias> heh
05:18 < snapcount> yeah... I pictured colin as that guy from who's line is it anyways
05:18 < snapcount> the semi-bald one with blond hair
05:18 < snapcount> don't know why
05:18 <@crythias> I was there before you, Matt. barely.
05:18 <@funkTired> nuh uh :p
05:18 <@funkTired> b/c i bought paid support in august 04
05:18 <@crythias> oh
05:19 <@crythias> ok.
05:19 <@funkTired> i was quiet though.
05:19 <@funkTired> until Oct/Nov
05:19 <@crythias> yeah.
05:19 <@crythias> my first post was some probs upgrading 5.x -> 6.x
05:19 <@crythias> then I dumped and restarted under 6.2.7
05:20 <@funkTired> prob. at someone's (like me) insistence.
05:20 <@crythias> Think it was Len.
05:20 <@crythias> I had so many issues with FreeBSD that I *HAD* to make the FAQ
05:21 <@crythias> hrm.
05:21 <@funkTired> BNSD
05:22 <@crythias> I don't know why Matt and I got along.
05:22 < snapcount> FREEBSD
05:22 <@funkTired> berkeley non-standard distribution.
05:22 < snapcount> LNX LVR
05:22 < snapcount> PENGUIN
05:22 <@crythias> TUX RACR
05:22 <@funkTired> crythias: snapcount is like 2 days behind us.
05:22 < snapcount> TUX FKR
05:22 <@funkTired> pretty soon he'll start to degenerate.
05:22 < snapcount> yeah yeah
05:23 <@funkTired> all of my plates have turned deviant.
05:23 < snapcount> I'm like a borg
05:23 <@crythias> LATE .
05:23 < snapcount> plug my ass in
05:23 < snapcount> and I'll reboot
05:23 < snapcount> re-assemilate
05:23 <@crythias> hee
05:23 <@funkTired> BORGBUTT
05:24 < snapcount> All your planets are belong to us
05:24 <@crythias> BRG PMPL
05:24 <@crythias> PUS MNGR
05:24 < snapcount> SALADTSR
05:25 <@funkTired> PMPLPOPR
05:25 <@crythias> PUSLIKR
05:25 <@funkTired> liker or licker
05:25 < snapcount> ASSCRM
05:25 <@crythias> MUNGE
05:25 <@funkTired> !REGEXP!
05:25 <@crythias> C DOS RUN
05:25 < snapcount> ASSMNKY
05:26 <@funkTired> hey.
05:26 <@funkTired> I bet with the three of us here we could crank through the open bugs....?
05:26 < snapcount> so based on recent conversations... I guess none of this will make the dev list
05:26 <@funkTired> heh.
05:26 <@crythias> RED SHRT
05:26 < snapcount> sorry dude... I'm still writing a SOW
05:26 < snapcount> that sux my ass
05:26 <@funkTired> FATAL1TY
05:27 <@funkTired> sow = female pig?
05:27 <@crythias> DEADMAN
05:27 <@funkTired> or statement of work
05:27 < snapcount> yes
05:27 <@funkTired> ah; both.
05:27 < snapcount> SOW == Statement of Work"
05:27 < snapcount> err
05:28 < snapcount> SOW == "Statement of Work" || "female pig"
05:28 < snapcount> evaluates to true
05:28 <@funkTired> SOW == "Statement of Work" || SOW == "female pig"
05:29 <@crythias> GET OVR HR
05:29 < snapcount> that would evaluate to 1 || 0
05:29 < snapcount> which still evaluates
05:29 < snapcount> to 1
05:29 < snapcount> but that should answer your question
05:29 <@funkTired> == has precedence over ||
05:29 < snapcount> yeah
05:30 < snapcount> 1 || 0
05:30 <@funkTired> 1 || 1
05:30 < snapcount> no
05:30 <@funkTired> "female pig" is always 1
05:30 < snapcount> sow != female pig in my universe
05:30 < snapcount> just statement of work
05:30 < snapcount> but you have a valid argument in a parallel dimension
05:30 < snapcount> some call it earth
05:30 <@funkTired> but your expression is equiv to if((SOW == "Statement of Work") || ("female pig"))
05:31 < snapcount> no
05:31 -!- RingLeadeR [n=contests@pool-71-115-163-68.gdrpmi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #webgui
05:31 < snapcount> my expression is equiv to if((SOW == "Statement of Work") || 0
05:31 < snapcount> because the ==
05:31 < snapcount> can never be true
05:31 < snapcount> in my world
05:31 <@funkTired> newayz.
05:31 < snapcount> lol
05:31 < RingLeadeR> Is this the OpenCMS fan club channel?
05:31 <@funkTired> welcome RingLeadeR
05:32 < snapcount> something like that
05:32 < RingLeadeR> :)
05:32 <@funkTired> uh, if by OpenCMS, you mean WebGUI
05:32 -!- RingLeadeR is now known as ParkerOne
05:32 < snapcount> dude
05:32 < snapcount> good thing you changed your nick
05:32 <@funkTired> you would've been reamed.
05:32 < snapcount> we were about to lay the smack down
05:33  * funkTired claps his hands gleefully
05:33 < ParkerOne> heh irc warz... so 1996ish
05:33 < snapcount> the good ol' days
05:34 < snapcount> BUTBOOM
05:35 < snapcount> VOTECTR (FL Tag)
05:35 <@crythias> NEAR MRS
05:35 < snapcount> nice
05:35 < snapcount> I like that one
05:36 <@funkTired> crythias: say the one about the face
05:36 <@crythias> sigh
05:36 <@crythias> I MR FACE
05:36 < snapcount> PKTSNIFR
05:36 < snapcount> haha
05:36 <@funkTired> RONGHOL
05:36 < snapcount> GOT HAIR
05:36 <@crythias> TOE SUKR
05:37 < snapcount> (comes after I MR FACE)
05:37 <@funkTired> uh
05:37 <@funkTired> double entendre there snapcount
05:37 < snapcount> what
05:37 <@funkTired> n/m
05:38 <@funkTired> WKIPEED
05:38  * snapcount googles entendre to un-dumb himself
05:38 < snapcount> ok
05:39 < snapcount> I defend the double entendre status of my plate
05:39 < snapcount> it can be read as a question for bald people
05:39 <@funkTired> I meant your parenthetical.
05:39 <@crythias> yeah no doubt.
05:40 <@crythias> just caught it.
05:40 <@funkTired> HAIRLESS
05:40 <@crythias> a bit slow
05:40 <@funkTired> SHAVEN
05:40 <@crythias> but... wouldn't it be before?
05:40 < snapcount> could be
05:41 < snapcount> which increases it's comedic value
05:41 <@crythias> yeah.
05:41 <@crythias> GOT HAIT
05:41 <@funkTired> for the irc log trollers
05:41 <@crythias> or hair.
05:42 < snapcount> I could really go for a big ass bowl of fruit loops right now
05:42 <@funkTired> ugh.
05:42 <@funkTired> BULEMIC
05:42 < snapcount> UPCHKR
05:42 <@crythias> LV LOHAN
05:43 <@crythias> MOR PZZA
05:43 -!- mode/#webgui [+o ParkerOne] by funkTired
05:43 < snapcount> Hey WRE... you big sack of crap
05:44 <@funkTired> DEOPME
05:44 < snapcount> If I'm cool... make me an op
05:44 < snapcount> ummkay?
05:44 <@crythias> MLTD CHZ
05:44 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by WRE
05:44 <@funkTired> okay, new rule
05:44 <@ParkerOne> i think you need to script wre with all of the WebGUI Done Right Information
05:44 <@funkTired> you have to describe the vehicle that the plate is on.
05:45 <@funkTired> model/color is enough.
05:45 <@snapcount> VIAGRA1 -- JT's pinto
05:45 <@snapcount> baby blue
05:45 <@crythias> LOKDKYZ blonde's convertible.
05:46 <@ParkerOne> Who is Snapcount?
05:46 <@snapcount> EXPLRER -- Proctologists SUV
05:46 <@funkTired> SPLNKR
05:47 <@funkTired> oops I broke my own rule.
05:47 <@WRE> snapcount is the coolest guy I've ever known
05:47 <@funkTired> !bash 
05:47 <@snapcount> hehe
05:47 <@WRE> !bash: no results found for search
05:47 <@ParkerOne> wre does talk.. lol
05:47 <@snapcount> that's cheating
05:47 <@snapcount> wre is my bitch
05:47 <@funkTired> !bash
05:47 <@WRE> |bash 60904| <Squiggle> Also:the bottom ones [on bash.org] are some of the best
05:47 <@WRE> |bash 60904| <Squiggle> They're all about niggers
05:47 <@WRE> |bash 60904| <Squiggle> Niggers  =  funny
05:47 <@WRE> |bash 60904| <Sulzanti> Not if you have to be in smelling distance 
05:47 <@crythias> hrm.
05:48 <@funkTired> !bash
05:48 <@WRE> |bash 61227| <Tont0> TCP/IP illustrated needs a swimsuit issue 
05:48 <@funkTired> !bash 345223
05:48 <@snapcount> !bofh
05:48 <@WRE> !bash: quote not found
05:48 <@WRE> BOFH Quick-excuse: Due to Federal Budget problems we have been forced to cut back on the number of users able to access the system at one time. Namely none allowed....
05:48 <@funkTired> !bash 3221
05:48 <@WRE> |bash| <SementE> anyone here have a commercial pilot license?
05:48 <@WRE> |bash| <blazemore> semente: do you have any idea how many fbi 'carnivore' systems you just set off
05:48 <@WRE> |bash| <SementE> blazemore:  oh.. I forgot to add airline 
05:48 <@funkTired> !bash 911
05:48 <@ParkerOne> heh
05:48 <@WRE> |bash| <Kez> FIND A DISEASE AND CRAWL INTO BED WITH IT PLS THX 
05:49 <@funkTired> !bash 1024
05:49 <@WRE> !bash: quote not found
05:49 <@funkTired> !bash 128
05:49 <@WRE> !bash: quote not found
05:49 <@snapcount> !horiscope aquarius
05:49 <@funkTired> !horoscope gemini
05:49 <@WRE> Gemini; <span id="intelliTxt">There's nothing like seeing someone else's inspired artistic expression to light a fire under your own creative endeavors. Rather than being jealous, you start to think of new ways to address your projects.</span>
05:49 <@snapcount> did I spell it wrong
05:49  * snapcount recognizes himself as a lame ass
05:50 <@snapcount> bad spelers of the world untie
05:50 <@snapcount> well that was fun
05:50 <@ParkerOne> Hey snap, what do you do for a living?
05:50 <@funkTired> !bash 9834
05:50 <@WRE> !bash: quote not found
05:51 <@snapcount> well
05:51 <@snapcount> I used to own Ocean View Web Creations
05:51 <@snapcount> now I work for PB
05:51 <@snapcount> for the past couple of hours anyways
05:51  * funkTired allows the world to rejoice with him.
05:52 <@ParkerOne> coolio, PB is a growing
05:52 <@snapcount> yep
05:52 <@snapcount> I'm a tumor
05:52 <@snapcount> hehe
05:52 <@snapcount> j/k
05:52 <@funkTired> don't 'replicate' near me.
05:52 <@crythias> !bash 24431
05:52 <@WRE> !bash: quote not found
05:52 <@funkTired> bash 8853
05:52 <@crythias> !bash 244321
05:53 <@WRE> !bash: quote has too many lines to display in public channel (max 12, quote has 17): sending as privmsg instead
05:53 <@funkTired> !bash 8853
05:53 <@crythias> !bash 99835
05:53 <@WRE> |bash| <Guo_Si> Hey, you know what sucks?
05:53 <@WRE> |bash| <TheXPhial> vaccuums
05:53 <@WRE> |bash| <Guo_Si> Hey, you know what sucks in a metaphorical sense?
05:53 <@WRE> |bash| <TheXPhial> black holes
05:53 <@WRE> |bash| <Guo_Si> Hey, you know what just isn't cool?
05:53 <@WRE> |bash| <TheXPhial> lava? 
05:54 <@crythias> !bash 4753
05:54 <@WRE> |bash| <xterm> The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 
05:54 <@funkTired> amen.
05:54 <@snapcount> fuck yeah
05:54 <@snapcount> hrmm
05:55 <@funkTired> |bash| <snapcount> (comes after I MR FACE)
05:55 <@snapcount> I wonder if WRE finished his metorology degree yet
05:55 <@snapcount> .wx 32117
05:55 <@funkTired> rename WRE to WRECK
05:55 <@snapcount> I'm bored
05:56 <@funkTired> finish your sow.
05:56 <@crythias> !bash 23601
05:56 <@WRE> |bash| <mage> what should I give sister for unzipping?
05:56 <@WRE> |bash| <Kevyn> Um. Ten bucks?
05:56 <@WRE> |bash| <mage> no I mean like, WinZip? 
05:56 <@snapcount> he better learn new tricks or I'll kill -9 his ass
05:57 <@funkTired> One of the earliest examples of double entendre in American culture was the late 19th-century vaudeville act, the Barrison Sisters. They danced, raising their skirts slightly and asking the audience: "Would you like to see my pussy?" After an enthusiastic response, they would raise up their skirts, revealing live kittens secured over their crotches.
05:57  * snapcount reflects on this priceless snippet of wisdom
05:58 <@funkTired> somehow I doubt that was really one of the earliest examples of double entendre in American culture.
05:58 <@snapcount> yeah
05:58 <@ParkerOne> snap what are you going to be doing at PB?
05:58 <@funkTired> more like someone trying to put jokes in wikipedia
05:58 <@ParkerOne> matt you should be watching this game btw.. 
05:58 <@snapcount> I'm supposed to be JT's mini-me
05:59 <@ParkerOne> oh really? heh.. that ought to be interesting
05:59 <@crythias> !bash 330261
05:59 <@WRE> |bash| <i8b4uUnderground> d-_-b
05:59 <@WRE> |bash| <BonyNoMore> how u make that inverted b?
05:59 <@WRE> |bash| <BonyNoMore> wait
05:59 <@WRE> |bash| <BonyNoMore> never mind 
05:59 <@snapcount> fund a feature dev, bugs, server admin
05:59 <@snapcount> some core stuff here and there
05:59 <@ParkerOne> awesome.. the more devs the better
05:59 <@snapcount> a little bit of everything I guess like everyone else on staff
05:59 <@ParkerOne> since matt keeps messing everything up
05:59 <@crythias> who's kill -9?
06:00 <@ParkerOne> er i mean... 
06:00 <@ParkerOne> hehe
06:00 <@funkTired> i'm such a f-up.
06:00 <@ParkerOne> yeah right.. you've saved my ass plenty-o-times
06:01 <@crythias> FMLY GUY - pink yugo
06:02 <@funkTired> STMRLR - delorean (whatever color unpainted brushed stainless steel is)
06:03 <@funkTired> weird.
06:03 <@funkTired> I have the latest leaked Vista build running in a vmware vm.
06:04 <@funkTired> and the latest leaked Office 12 build runs 10x faster in there than it does in my native XP.
06:04 <@crythias> Vaporware
06:04 <@funkTired> dead serious.
06:05 <@crythias> yes. and I'm not?
06:05 <@funkTired> oh; yeah.
06:05 <@funkTired> final release, yeah.
06:05  * funkTired deals a round of cards.
06:06  * funkTired kicks WRE
06:06 <@funkTired> &kick WRE
06:07  * funkTired suffers from ennui
06:07  * funkTired tires of seeing * funkTired in purple.
06:07  * funkTired enjoys referring to himself in the third person, to himself.
06:07 -!- funkTired was kicked from #WebGUI by WRE [request]
06:08 <@snapcount> oops
06:08 -!- funkTired [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui
06:08 -!- mode/#webgui [+o funkTired] by xdanger
06:08 -!- WRE was kicked from #webgui by funkTired [Kick]
06:08 -!- WRE [n=gooey@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has joined #WebGUI
06:08 <@funkTired> ahah.  WRE can't op himself.
06:09 <@funkTired> mruhaha.
06:09 -!- mode/#webgui [+o WRE] by snapcount
06:09 <@snapcount> yeah
06:09 <@snapcount> he still suxorz
06:09 <@snapcount> he will become more powerful
06:09 <@funkTired> than I can possibly imagine?
06:09 <@snapcount> maybe
06:10 <@snapcount> what kind of bot is xdanger?
06:10 <@funkTired> dunno
06:10 <@snapcount> who's bot is it?
06:11 <@snapcount> hrmmm
06:11 <@snapcount> must be a SPY!
06:11 <@funkTired> it's onki's.
06:12 <@snapcount> cool
06:12 <@snapcount> a dutch bot
06:12 <@snapcount> I guess WRE is Canadian technically
06:15 -!- cluge [n=aaron@rrcs-24-73-239-166.se.biz.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
06:17 <@snapcount> grrr
06:18 <@funkTired> ?
06:18 <@snapcount> I want some fruit loops
06:18 <@snapcount> I'm out
06:18 <@funkTired> froot loops
06:18 <@funkTired> yeah, i'm a jerk.
06:18  * snapcount scratches his head
06:19 <@funkTired> i was correcting your spelling.
06:19 <@snapcount> is that how you spell it?
06:19 <@snapcount> froot
06:19 <@funkTired> yeah, on the box, I think.
06:19 <@snapcount> damn
06:19 <@snapcount> you're right
06:19 <@snapcount> I never noticed that before
06:19 <@funkTired> http://www.frootloops.com/
06:19 <@ParkerOne> no way.. seriously
06:20 <@funkTired> takes one (froot loop) to know one (froot loop)
06:20 <@snapcount> wow
06:20 <@snapcount> the pre-loader is pretty cool
06:20 <@ParkerOne> wow damn... that's a hella good trivia question
06:21 <@funkTired> WRE: evolve ability trivia
06:21  * snapcount plays froot ahoy game
06:22 <@snapcount> LOL
06:22  * funkTired ROTFL
06:22 <@snapcount> I just got a 1000 fruity points
06:22 <@funkTired> I just created my very own treasure map with the fruity delight of Froot Loops(r)
06:24 <@snapcount> !seen rizen
06:24 <@WRE> rizen (n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net) was last seen parting #WebGUI 1 hour, 23 minutes ago stating "{}".
06:24 <@funkTired> !seen boss
06:24 <@WRE> funkTired, I don't remember seeing boss.
06:24 <@funkTired> ok, enough trolling.... off to bed.
06:24 <@snapcount> !seen my_ass
06:24 <@WRE> snapcount, I don't remember seeing my_ass.
06:24 <@ParkerOne> cya funk
06:25 <@snapcount> later
06:25 -!- funkTired is now known as frootLoop
06:25 <@ParkerOne> i gotta go fix some client crap.. yay.. talk at you guys later
06:25 -!- ParkerOne [n=contests@pool-71-115-163-68.gdrpmi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit []
06:25 <@frootLoop> hey, frootLoop isn't taken.
06:26 <@snapcount> are you really surprised by that
06:26 <@frootLoop> i guess
06:26 <@snapcount> I imagine flames would come a plenty
06:29 <@crythias> grr
06:29 <@crythias> "Get yours for a fraction of the price"
06:30 <@frootLoop> wootreseller.com
06:30 <@crythias> yeah ok. 100/100 is a fraction. so what.
06:30 -!- crythias is now known as lootfroop
06:30 <@lootfroop> cluge stayed a long time
06:30 <@frootLoop> egulc
06:31 -!- lootfroop is now known as crythias
06:31 <@crythias> l8r
06:32 <@frootLoop> l8r.
06:32 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has left #webgui []
06:32 <@frootLoop> heal up.
06:32 <@snapcount> heal up?
06:32 <@frootLoop> he was home sick today
06:35 <@snapcount> oh
06:35 <@snapcount> I thought I was ignorant to some sort of slang or something
06:35 <@frootLoop> SINGED
06:36 <@frootLoop> NJUNERE
06:42 <@snapcount> you live in TX fruit?
06:42 <@frootLoop> used to.
06:42 <@frootLoop> now in KC, KS
06:42 <@snapcount> I lived in OK for about 6 yrs
08:50 -!- snapc0unt [i=snapcoun@64-193-14-144.dtb.clearwire-dns.net] has joined #webgui
09:01 -!- snapcount [i=snapcoun@64-193-14-144.dtb.clearwire-dns.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
09:12 -!- snapc0unt [i=snapcoun@64-193-14-144.dtb.clearwire-dns.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
09:29 -!- lonki_home is now known as lonki
09:44 <@xdanger> ehem, I am not a bot... Just my irc-client has little features like autoop-list... and I run it 24/7...
09:49 < lonki> xdanger, and it generates discussions? :-)
09:49 <@xdanger> nope =) just op's people ;)
09:49 < lonki> haha
10:54 -!- lenthamen [n=len@82-148-208-20.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #webgui
10:59 -!- lonki [n=hans@195.18.93.61] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
11:17 -!- lenthamen [n=len@82-148-208-20.fiber.unet.nl] has left #webgui []
11:53 -!- lenthamen [n=len@82-148-208-20.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #webgui
12:17 -!- midellaq [i=user@host168-164.pool8249.interbusiness.it] has joined #webgui
13:09 -!- midellaq [i=user@host168-164.pool8249.interbusiness.it] has left #webgui []
13:23 -!- lonki [n=hans@195.18.93.61] has joined #webgui
13:24 < lonki> hi
14:30 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
14:30 -!- mode/#webgui [+o crythias] by xdanger
14:31 <@crythias> !bofh
14:31 <@WRE> BOFH Quick-excuse: new management
14:31 <@crythias> Acceptable.
14:31 <@crythias> Thanks.
15:30 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]
15:32  * lenthamen just had lunch
16:00 -!- midellaq [i=user@host168-164.pool8249.interbusiness.it] has joined #webgui
16:04 <@frootLoop> hello
16:05 -!- frootLoop is now known as pbmdawg
16:05 < lenthamen> hello all !
16:05 < midellaq> hi there
16:06 <@pbmdawg> haven't seen or heard from you lately MD
16:06 <@pbmdawg> on the dev list or pb boards..
16:06 <@pbmdawg> how have you been?
16:06 < midellaq> that's because I'm shy
16:07 < midellaq> fine.. almost.. 
16:07 < midellaq> who am I chatting with?
16:07 <@pbmdawg> matthew wilson 
16:08 < midellaq> nice to meet you, mwilson.. you're doing a greeeat job, let me tell you
16:09 <@pbmdawg> i detect some sarcasm?
16:09 < midellaq> no no no.. I'm telling the truth..
16:09 <@pbmdawg> oh, ok. thanks.  not sure what you mean, but thanks.
16:09 < lenthamen> Yes, Matthew, we're all proud of you !
16:11  * lenthamen Matthew doesn't know what to say anymore ;)
16:21 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
16:21 -!- mode/#webgui [+o crythias] by xdanger
16:24 < lenthamen> howdy crythias
16:25 <@crythias> hello
16:29 <@xdanger> and I'm not a bot ;)
16:29 <@xdanger> jfyi
16:29 <@pbmdawg> yes; sorry for that. :)
16:29 < lenthamen> crythias: Another day supporting WebGUI ;)
16:33 <@crythias> heh
16:33 <@crythias> according to Matthew, I hit both sides of the bell curve.
16:33 <@crythias> Either I'm exactly right or horribly wrong.
16:34 < lenthamen> hehe... Don't believe what Matthew says :)
16:34 <@crythias> Are you kidding? I believe everything he reads.
16:40 < lenthamen> This is already the second day I'm working on cleaning up code I've written myself.....
16:41 < lenthamen> A messy piece of horrible spagetti code
16:41 <@pbmdawg> and I just read this: http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=526
16:41 <@pbmdawg> the "musketball sling"
16:43 <@crythias> yeah
16:44 <@crythias> whiners in the digg comments.
16:44 <@crythias> "What do you mean no recoil?" 
16:44 <@pbmdawg> actually i asked an engineer friend about that.
16:44 <@crythias> duh. You ever play with hotwheels?
16:44 <@pbmdawg> there is recoil
16:45 <@pbmdawg> he asked me if I ever used a sling.
16:45 <@crythias> sling is accurate.
16:47 <@crythias> hotwheels: at least one set has this motorized "acceleration" machine in the track that keeps the cars going. I guess the best way to describe it is a car wash machine which spins, hugging the car, and forces it out.
16:47 <@pbmdawg> yeah.
16:47 <@crythias> not really recoil, too much. 
16:47 <@pbmdawg> and it hops/pushes back when the car is released.
16:47 <@pbmdawg> slightly
16:47 <@crythias> not near as much as if it were stationary
16:48 <@pbmdawg> same amount.
16:48 <@pbmdawg> wait, what do you mean stationary.
16:48 <@crythias> it's already accounted for in the spin.
16:48 <@crythias> a rifle is stationary relative to the explosive charge in the muzzle.
16:49 <@crythias> it has to recoil because of the initial force of the bullet.
16:49 <@crythias> slingshots don't recoil.
16:49 <@pbmdawg> yeah they do
16:50 <@crythias> no they don't. they're pulled back and that's the precoil, but that IS the force required to move the projectile.
16:51 <@crythias> the projectile in a sling shot doesn't apply force against the sling.
16:51 <@pbmdawg> if you are standing on a teflon surface, and you are holding a spinning sling, and you release the release cord when the cords are at a 90 degree angle to your target, the payload will continue on toward the target, and you will start moving backwards.
16:51 <@crythias> that is net, force
16:51 <@crythias> no way
16:51 <@pbmdawg> in fact, we did that exact experiment in high school, standing on wheeled platforms.
16:51 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
16:52 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by xdanger
16:52 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #webgui []
16:52 <@pbmdawg> yeah way.
16:52 < lenthamen> perl question: Do I still need to call $dbh->disconnect if I'm using Apache::DBI ?
16:53 <@pbmdawg> no
16:53 < lenthamen> k
16:53 <@pbmdawg> but you do still need to do $sth->finish
16:53 <@pbmdawg> if you create a $sth
16:53 < lenthamen> yeah thats to finish the statement
16:56 <@crythias> ok, I'll buy that you have recoil on frictionless surface. I'm reasonably certain that the recoil is insignificant compared to relative velocity of the projectile versus a bullet's recoil.
16:56 <@pbmdawg> no, it's identical, if the mass and release velocity of the projectile is the same
16:56 <@pbmdawg> conservation of momentum.
16:58 <@crythias> http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=539
17:03 < lenthamen> my $self = shit;
17:06 <@crythias> oh... kay
17:09 < lenthamen> should be my $self = shift;
17:09 <@pbmdawg> !bash
17:09 <@WRE> |bash 82201| <b1u3> my sister, whos studing to be a chef, was at one of those miracle blade conventions...she said chef tony cut like five perefect slices off of a roast and had an orgasm
17:09 <@crythias> yeah
17:09 <@WRE> |bash 82201| <p1rpl3> lol 'oh...oh yeah...is that camera still on? ill be right back friends...oh' 
17:10 <@pbmdawg> !bash
17:10 <@WRE> |bash 85649| <Kai-Bach> 900 years, hensons hand up your butt, not as good you will look 
17:10 <@pbmdawg> !bash
17:10 <@WRE> |bash 89683| Liz: id like to have something else :-P
17:10 <@WRE> |bash 89683| katie: lol
17:10 <@WRE> |bash 89683| katie: i would too
17:10 <@WRE> |bash 89683| katie: like 5 seconds with him
17:10 <@WRE> |bash 89683| katie: even 5 milliseconds
17:10 <@WRE> |bash 89683| Liz: mmmm, 5 milliseconds of sex
17:10 <@WRE> |bash 89683| Liz: is that even a full thrust?
17:10 <@WRE> |bash 89683| katie: 1/2 of one
17:10 <@WRE> |bash 89683| Liz: mmmm, half thrust 
17:11 < lenthamen> !tcsh
17:11 < lenthamen> !ksh
17:11 <@pbmdawg> !bash
17:11 <@WRE> |bash 100524| <boyd> anyway, theres a survey on the back and one question is 'What was the easiest way to make new friends at your Teritary Institution?'
17:11 <@WRE> |bash 100524| <boyd> if my name wasn't going to be attached to it, i'd put something like 'i'm doing computer science, I  HAVE NO FRIENDS 
17:12 <@crythias> !zsh
17:12 <@crythias> !flash
17:12 <@crythias> !csh
17:13 <@pbmdawg> !bash
17:13 <@WRE> |bash 102182| <@DrPoole> i wish i had a friendly panda
17:13 <@WRE> |bash 102182| <@DrPoole> he'd be my buddy. watch tv and stuff.
17:13 <@WRE> |bash 102182| <@DrPoole> drink beer.
17:13 <@WRE> |bash 102182| <@niklas> get high
17:13 <@WRE> |bash 102182| <@DrPoole> yeah. he'd get fucked right up and he'd beat on me from time to time.
17:13 <@WRE> |bash 102182| <@DrPoole> that, would, RULE 
17:13  * crythias hangs his head in shame.
17:14  * pbmdawg gloats.
17:15 <@pbmdawg> !bash
17:16 <@WRE> |bash 105245| <Halibut> Oh dear
17:16 <@WRE> |bash 105245| <Halibut> I just tried to swat a fly with my cursor 
17:16 <@pbmdawg> i've done that.
17:16 <@crythias> oh. my. word.
17:16 <@pbmdawg> a fruit fly
17:17 <@crythias> apple or pear?
17:17 <@pbmdawg> dunno.
17:24 -!- snapcount [i=snapcoun@64-193-14-144.dtb.clearwire-dns.net] has joined #webgui
17:25  * crythias snaps his fingers. One. Two. Three.
17:25 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by WRE
17:25 <@pbmdawg> cute.
17:34 <@crythias> More heresy: Centrifugal force doesn't exist.
17:34 <@pbmdawg> angular momentum does.
17:35 <@crythias> yes
17:35 <@crythias> but there is no force pulling something away from center.
17:36 <@crythias> I think I'll post that on one of these boards and see how much I get flamed.
17:36 <@crythias> hrm.
17:37 <@crythias> combined with magnetic railgun, there's no recoil like a propellant...
17:37 <@pbmdawg> ?
17:37 <@crythias> yes, there's recoil, but it's not the same type as a propelled missile.
17:37 <@crythias> alternating magnetic field acceleration.
17:38 <@crythias> roller coasters
17:38 <@pbmdawg> there's still recoil.
17:38 <@crythias> real physics, and no gun-like recoil
17:38 <@crythias> it's outward, not backward.
17:38 <@pbmdawg> backward.
17:39 <@pbmdawg> equal and opposite reaction.
17:39 <@crythias> right.
17:39 <@crythias> ok. ever use a magnet to pick up a paperclip?
17:39 <@pbmdawg> yes.
17:39 <@crythias> does it push against the table to elevate itself?
17:40 <@pbmdawg> no.
17:40 <@pbmdawg> but the table does push up on it while the clip is lying there.
17:40 <@crythias> but there's gotta be an equal and opposite reaction behind the accelerating paperclip
17:41 <@crythias> oh. wait. it's not pushing against the table. no recoil, but it does accelerate as it approaches the magnet
17:42 <@pbmdawg> yes. the force the clip exerts against the magnet is lessened while the clip is moving toward the magnet, and then changes to the force of the additional weight of the clip when the clip combines with the magnet.
17:42 <@crythias> yeah, but there's no recoil... it's an impact... 
17:43 <@crythias> and imagine if the magnet turned itself off before the paperclip got to it, but another magnet grabbed it.
17:43 <@crythias> no friction. no recoil.
17:43 <@pbmdawg> the recoil is felt by the magnet-holder as a greater 'heaviness' of of the magnet while nearing the clip, and while the clip is pulled up to the magnet.
17:44 <@pbmdawg> which is lessened when the clip reaches terminal velocity through the air (if it does).
17:44 <@crythias> fine, but it's miniscule compared to the exploision of a gun.
17:44 <@pbmdawg> only b/c a paperclip weighs less and is travelling slower than a bullet.
17:44 <@crythias> it's not impossible to use a bullet sized paperclip.
17:45 <@pbmdawg> yes, and you will feel the clip pulling the magnet toward it when you approach the bullet-sized clip.
17:45 <@crythias> and it's not impossible to use magnetics to accelerate the bullet. 
17:45 <@crythias> but if you used a cylindrical magnet...
17:45 <@pbmdawg> yes, and the electromagnets will exert equal and opposite reactionary forces on their housings.
17:45 <@pbmdawg> which will exert those forces on their mounts.
17:46 <@crythias> It's not going to kick me in the shoulder when I use it.
17:46 <@pbmdawg> what won't
17:46 <@pbmdawg> the centrifuge gun?
17:46 <@crythias> yes
17:46 <@pbmdawg> it would be impossible for a person to hold, let alone aim.
17:46 <@pbmdawg> the weight alone....
17:46 -!- WRE changed the topic of #webgui to: railguns, magnets, oh my!
17:47 <@crythias> it's a vehicle mounted armament.
17:47 <@pbmdawg> not regarding the gyroscopic effects (Nm^2)
17:47 <@crythias> counterrotating is good enough to offset it. see gyro helicopters.
17:48 <@pbmdawg> no
17:48 <@pbmdawg> that's for counteracting the equal and opposite rotational effects.
17:48 <@pbmdawg> not the gyroscopic effect.
17:49 <@crythias> how do helicopters work?
17:49 <@pbmdawg> a helicopter can have two horizontal rotors spinning oppositely or one horozontal rotor and a rear vertical fan to offset those forces.
17:49 <@crythias> they can do lots of things.
17:50 <@crythias> ok.
17:50 <@crythias> but ... slings don't have gyroscope affects?
17:50 <@pbmdawg> the force the rear fan exerts against the air counteracts the force it takes to get the top rotor spinning and keep it spinning.
17:50 <@pbmdawg> they do.
17:50 <@pbmdawg> but miniscule b/c they're spinning so slowly.
17:50 <@pbmdawg> comparatively.
17:51 <@crythias> gyroscopes tend to have their mass on their perimeter.
17:51 <@pbmdawg> doesn't matter where it is.
17:51 <@pbmdawg> it's the amount of angular momentum that counts.
17:51 <@crythias> it matters.
17:52 <@crythias> gyroscopes don't evenly distribute their mass across the plain for a reason.
17:52 <@crythias> plane
17:52 <@pbmdawg> only for efficiency.
17:52 -!- lonki is now known as lonki_home
17:52 <@crythias> right...
17:53 <@pbmdawg> to maximize their angular momentum / mass.
18:01 <@pbmdawg> rebooting
18:02 -!- pbmdawg [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has left #webgui []
18:06 -!- lenthamen [n=len@82-148-208-20.fiber.unet.nl] has left #webgui []
18:10 -!- crythias changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI real time help. et al. | http://www.plainblack.com
18:19 -!- pbmdawg [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui
18:19 -!- mode/#webgui [+o pbmdawg] by xdanger
18:23 <@snapcount> !bofh
18:23 <@WRE> BOFH Quick-excuse: Too many interrupts
18:30 <@crythias> know sendmail?
18:30 <@pbmdawg> me? no
18:30 -!- lenthamen [n=len@82-148-208-20.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #webgui
18:32 -!- lenthamen [n=len@82-148-208-20.fiber.unet.nl] has left #webgui []
18:39 <@crythias> ok.. bug/rfe
18:39 <@crythias> first page of a long thread, the title is obnoxious. seconds page, it's all tidy.
18:39 <@crythias> still can't click to go directly to a post on the second page of a thread.
18:40 <@pbmdawg> yeah.
18:40 <@pbmdawg> i never remember to report that when I notice it
18:40 <@crythias> isa bug?
18:40 <@pbmdawg> yeah
18:40 <@pbmdawg> add it
18:40 <@pbmdawg> plz
18:40 <@pbmdawg> !bash
18:40 <@WRE> |bash 107421| <melx0rz> we just polled some guy .. out of the following he is a) child molester b) FILTHY LIAR
18:41 <@WRE> |bash 107421| <melx0rz> i didn't answer
18:41 <@WRE> |bash 107421| <melx0rz> er.. HE
18:41 <@WRE> |bash 107421| <melx0rz> He didn't answer 
18:42 <@crythias> hey
18:42 <@crythias> any chance adding a real release # to the list of releases might be helpful?
18:43 <@crythias> Specifically: Category: 6.8.3 gamma
18:43 <@crythias> in sf.net
18:44 <@pbmdawg> 'tis probably a good idea
18:44 <@pbmdawg> send that one to the dev list
18:45 <@crythias> don't just do it?
18:45 <@crythias> cause I'm about to submit...
18:46 <@crythias> ok
18:47 <@pbmdawg> dunno
18:51 <@crythias> at least we should add current gamma
19:04 -!- agent [n=agent@217.160.141.149] has joined #webgui
19:04 < agent> hi all
19:04 <@pbmdawg> hi
19:05 -!- agent is now known as LuckyLStrike
19:05 <@pbmdawg> who is luckylstrke
19:06 < LuckyLStrike> me :) an unknown webgui coder/user
19:07 <@crythias> yawn.
19:07 <@pbmdawg> welcome mr/ms unknown wg coder/user.
19:08 <@crythias> FNCSHNL
19:08 < LuckyLStrike> ?
19:08 <@pbmdawg> BITEME
19:08 <@pbmdawg> BITEME - brown cadillac
19:09 <@crythias> yeah... um.. yellow hummer
19:09 <@pbmdawg> so who are you lucky
19:09 <@crythias> RUNOVRU - white semi
19:10 <@crythias> STM ROLR - yellow steam roller
19:10 < LuckyLStrike> sorry later, lots of work todo
19:10 -!- midellaq [i=user@host168-164.pool8249.interbusiness.it] has left #webgui []
19:11 -!- crythias changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI real time help. et al. | http://www.plainblack.com | DO U WBGUI ?
19:12 -!- crythias changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI real time help. et al. | http://www.plainblack.com | WebGUI - You're soaking in it.
19:13 <@crythias> somehow... that doesn't seem right.
19:13 <@crythias> !bash
19:13 <@WRE> |bash 136376| <Blade> Too bad your ex wasn't there.
19:13 <@WRE> |bash 136376| <Sonsquidku_V> She was in f*cking San Diego. Can you believe that?
19:13 <@WRE> |bash 136376| <Sonsquidku_V> There's like nothing there. It's mexican canada.
19:13 <@WRE> |bash 136376| <Blade> Seriously, it's like LA took a crap.
19:13 <@WRE> |bash 136376| <Sonsquidku_V> And then that crap took a crap.
19:13 <@WRE> |bash 136376| <Sonsquidku_V> And picked through the crap to find a land mine.
19:13 <@WRE> |bash 136376| <Sonsquidku_V> And threw it at my mom.
19:13 <@WRE> |bash 136376| <Blade> XD
19:13 <@WRE> |bash 136376| <Sonsquidku_V> Who fell down the stairs.
19:13 <@WRE> |bash 136376| <Sonsquidku_V> And into a hole which led to China.
19:13 <@WRE> |bash 136376| <Sonsquidku_V> And that's why I haven't seen her for the last 15 years.
19:13 <@WRE> |bash 136376| <Blade> You have some issues, Dan. 
19:13 <@crythias> !bash
19:13 <@WRE> |bash 138229| <Calisa> I can only hope there are hotel rooms involved in the party. I need to give my secret garden to serenity. We'll ride the comet of passion and wait until the sun dawns on the pool of spilled innocence. A world that's calm in the everlasting wake. 
19:13 <@WRE> |bash 138229| <TribGuru> she's gonna fuck the desk clerk. 
19:13 <@pbmdawg> !bash
19:14 <@pbmdawg> !bash
19:14 <@WRE> |bash 149939| <Algorithms> I just threw a squirrel carcass in a cardboard box and installed NetBSD on it. 
19:14 <@pbmdawg> !bash
19:14 < LuckyLStrike> ^^
19:14 <@pbmdawg> !bash
19:14 <@WRE> |bash 189180| <[GSF]Nitro> if that hot assistant had done a tumor check on my nads, it would have been an embarrassing experience for both of us
19:14 <@WRE> |bash 189180| <Quizical> heh
19:14 <@WRE> |bash 189180| <PunMeister> lol
19:14 <@WRE> |bash 189180| <The_Spaniard> excuse me sir can you do something about that erection
19:14 <@WRE> |bash 189180| <[GSF]Nitro> unless she found a tumor.. that would kill the mood pretty fast I bet
19:14 <@WRE> |bash 189180| <[GSF]Nitro> 8=============D
19:14 <@WRE> |bash 189180| <[GSF]Nitro> you have cancer
19:14 <@crythias> NetBSD: runs on anything.
19:14 <@WRE> |bash 189180| <[GSF]Nitro> 8D 
19:15 <@pbmdawg> !bash
19:15 <@WRE> |bash 196025| <m00> Why does the mexican olympic team suck?
19:15 <@WRE> |bash 196025| <m00> everyone who can run, jump or swim is already in the US 
19:15  * crythias rubs his eyes. Can't. remove. burnt. image.
19:15 <@pbmdawg> !bash
19:15 <@WRE> |bash 215386| <Marasmus> So I was listening to a comedian who was talking about the Queen of England being attractive when she was young.
19:15 <@WRE> |bash 215386| <Shae> Erm.. okay...
19:15 <@WRE> |bash 215386| <Marasmus> And that some guys would talk about her, you know, the lewd way guys do about celebrities.
19:15 <@WRE> |bash 215386| <Marasmus> And some of the guys would go further than that... and I thought, it must be very strange...
19:15 <@WRE> |bash 215386| <Marasmus> masturbating to pocket change. 
19:16 <@pbmdawg> !bash
19:16 <@WRE> |bash 221449| <Space-Monkey|ftw> my hand is stuck in my pc case 
19:16 <@pbmdawg> !bash
19:16 <@pbmdawg> !bash 221449
19:16 <@WRE> |bash| <Space-Monkey|ftw> my hand is stuck in my pc case 
19:16 <@crythias> press eject
19:17 <@crythias> drag your hand to the trash can
19:17 <@crythias> umount /dev/hand
19:18 <@crythias> somehow, that doesn't look right in print, either.
19:20 <@pbmdawg> brb
19:31 <@pbmdawg> crythias: http://www.plainblack.com/etcetera/affordable-hosting-for-slightly-customized-site
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19:37 <@crythias> yeah
19:37 <@crythias> but I'm not going to do that.
19:37 <@crythias> I'm not set up to provide mission critical anything.
19:39 <@crythias> and ... I'm not certain anyone will include customization in the hosting charges...
19:39 <@pbmdawg> surely he's not expecting that??!?!
19:39 <@pbmdawg> that's like, outsourcing to east asia  range prices.
19:40 <@crythias> *shrug*
19:40 <@crythias> hosting is one thing. just google it.
19:40 <@crythias> or use pb's hosting or whatever.
19:41 <@pbmdawg> that's theoretically possible, if whatever customizations they have can be rolled into the core.
19:41 <@pbmdawg> depends on what they are.
19:41 <@pbmdawg> which is why i asked.
19:42 <@pbmdawg> :D
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20:56 <@crythias> hrm... http://www.thinkgeek.com/electronics/cameras/7edc/?cpg=wnrss
22:58 <@crythias> !bofh
22:58 <@WRE> BOFH Quick-excuse: Zombie processess detected, machine is haunted.
22:59 <@crythias> !bash
22:59 <@WRE> |bash 239322| <stuberg> we got home from fishos at about 3 am drank as fuck
22:59 <@WRE> |bash 239322| <stuberg> drunk*
22:59 <@WRE> |bash 239322| <stuberg> and decided to have this mass acid/shrooms binge
22:59 <@WRE> |bash 239322| <stuberg> and we kept goin all mornin on it like trippin out crazy and watching some chinese subtitle moviee
22:59 <@WRE> |bash 239322| <stuberg> and at about 8.30 in the mornign paulie decides he has to go to school and he actually left and walked to school
22:59 <@WRE> |bash 239322| <pualat> ur friend went school on an acid/mushies trip nice
22:59 <@WRE> |bash 239322| <stuberg> no no u dont get it, hes 24 and owns his own business hes not sposed to go to school 
22:59  * crythias snickers.
23:00  * pbmdawg lol
23:02 <@crythias> !bash
23:02 <@WRE> |bash 265013| <Geno> Dude...
23:02 <@WRE> |bash 265013| <Geno> I was wearing my All Your Base shirt...and someone pointed out the craziest thing
23:02 <@WRE> |bash 265013| <Geno> 'Somebody Set Up Us the Bomb', when read Backwards, is 'Bomb the US (united states) Up Set (upset) Somebody' 
23:03 <@crythias> gasp
23:03 <@crythias> Us to belong are base your all
23:04 <@crythias> !bash
23:04 <@WRE> |bash 301963| <lib1790> so, at this college there was an extra credit question 'Is hell endothermic or exothermic'
23:04 <@WRE> |bash 301963| <lib1790> this is what one kid wrote:
23:04 <@WRE> |bash 301963| <lib1790> First, we postulate that if souls exist, then they must have some mass. 
23:04 <@WRE> |bash 301963| If they do, then a mole of souls can also have a mass. So, at what rate are souls moving into hell and at what rate are souls leaving? I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. 
23:04 <@WRE> |bash 301963| <lib1790>As for souls entering hell, lets look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to hell. Since, there are more than one of these religions and people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all people and all souls go to hell. 
23:04 <@WRE> |bash 301963| With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in hell to increase exponentially. 
23:04 <@WRE> |bash 301963| <lib1790> Now, we look at the rate of change in volume in hell. Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in hell to stay the same, the ratio of the mass of souls and volume needs to stay constant. 
23:04 <@WRE> |bash 301963| <lib1790>So, if hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter hell, then the temperature and pressure in hell will increase until all hell breaks loose (i.e.,Hell is exothermic). 
23:04 <@WRE> |bash 301963| <liv1790>Of course, if hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in hell, than the temperature and pressure will drop until hell freezes over (i.e.,Hell is endothermic). 
23:04 <@WRE> |bash 301963| <lib1790>So which is it? If we accept the postulate given by Ms.Therese Banyan during my freshman year, 'That it will be a cold night in hell before I go out with you,' and take into account the fact that I still have not succeeded in having a relationship with her, the second case cannot be true. Therefore, hell is exothermic.
23:05 <@WRE> |bash 301963| <lib1790> the kid was the only one who got credit 
23:05 <@crythias> !bash
23:05 <@WRE> |bash 386538| <simon-say> CNN is reporting that Lance Armstrong may be stripped of his 6th Tour de France title.
23:05 <@WRE> |bash 386538| <simon-say> In a random check for banned substances, three were found in Armstrong's hotel room.
23:05 <@WRE> |bash 386538| <simon-say> The substances banned by the French that were found in his hotel room were as follows: (1) Toothpaste, (2) Deodorant, (3) Soap
23:05 <@WRE> |bash 386538| <simon-say> The French officials also found several other items which they had never seen before, including a testicle and a backbone...
23:05 <@WRE> |bash 386538| <simon-say> Earlier reports that French Government officials attempted to surrender to Armstrong as he entered Paris were apparently erroneous. 
23:06 <@crythias> they did not... 
23:08 <@crythias> !bash
23:08 <@WRE> |bash 396157| SmarterChild: Market data (delayed 20 minutes) provided by Reuters   
23:08 <@WRE> |bash 396157| Ticker  Price  Change  Percent  Volume  
23:08 <@WRE> |bash 396157| 1  :-) B    26.50  +0.22   +0.84    18300
23:08 <@WRE> |bash 396157| 2  :-( A    22.15  -0.05   -0.23    747600
23:08 <@WRE> |bash 396157| 3  :-) S    38.50  +0.07   +0.18    688700
23:08 <@WRE> |bash 396157| 4  :-) T    14.45  +0.15   +1.05    930700
23:08 <@WRE> |bash 396157| 5  :-( A    22.15  -0.05   -0.23    747600
23:08 <@WRE> |bash 396157| 6  :-) R    43.55  +0.05   +0.11    157700
23:08 <@WRE> |bash 396157| 7  :-) D    64.77  +0.07   +0.11    342600 
23:08 <@crythias> !bash
23:08 <@WRE> |bash 464561| <xp99> We all know that it is a sin for an Islamic male to see any woman other than his wife naked, and that he must commit suicide if he does.
23:08 <@WRE> |bash 464561| <xp99> So next Sunday at 4:00 PM Eastern time, all American women are asked to walk out of their house completely naked to help weed out any neighborhood terrorists.
23:08 <@WRE> |bash 464561| <xp99> Circling your block for one hour is recommended for this antiterrorist effort. All men are to position themselves in lawn chairs in front of their house to prove they are not terrorists, and to demonstrate that they think it's okay to see nude women other than their wife and to show support for all American women.
23:08 <@WRE> |bash 464561| <xp99> And since the Koran also does not approve of alcohol, a cold six-pack at your side is further proof of your antiterrorist sentiment.
23:08 <@WRE> |bash 464561| <xp99> The American Government appreciates your efforts to root out terrorists and applauds your participation in this anti terrorist activity.
23:08 <@WRE> |bash 464561| <xp99> God bless America and GOD BLESS AMERICAN WOMEN! IT IS YOUR PATRIOTIC DUTY TO PASS THIS ON 
23:09 <@crythias> I think I nee to stop
23:09 <@crythias> need*
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--- Day changed Fri Jan 06 2006
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00:10 -!- mode/#webgui [+o onioncoder] by xdanger
00:11 < macOnki> crythias, hmmm, you might be right
00:16 <@crythias> about what?
00:17  * crythias likes to know when he's right about something... it's not that often.
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00:17 <@crythias> about needing to stop, maconki?
00:17 < macOnki> yes :-)
00:17 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by WRE
00:28 <@crythias> !bash 120095
00:28 <@WRE> |bash| <Naudiz> my IQ is high enough that I can do anything I want
00:28 <@WRE> |bash| <Naudiz> college means nothing
00:28 <@WRE> |bash| <netbsd_> What is this almighty IQ you have and what self-scoring IQ test gave you the idea you have it?
00:28 <@WRE> |bash| <Naudiz> I'm a Mensa member .. I allready mentioned this.
00:28 <@WRE> |bash| <netbsd_> So you're in the top two percent of the population?
00:28 <@WRE> |bash| <netbsd_> This is me being impressed.
00:28 <@WRE> |bash| <Naudiz> no actually ... only 1 in 50 people qualify to be in Mensa 
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00:35 < LuckyLStrike> !bash
00:35 <@WRE> |bash 21| <Tempy^^> I'll settle for old and fat
00:35 <@WRE> |bash 21| <Tempy^^> begger can't be choosers
00:35 <@WRE> |bash 21| <Tempy^^> prolly find used condoms inside of her 
00:35 < LuckyLStrike> kewl
00:35 < LuckyLStrike> re
00:36 <@snapcount> !bofh
00:36 <@WRE> BOFH Quick-excuse: Out of cards on drive D:
00:36 <@crythias> sorry
00:37 < LuckyLStrike> np, whats BOFH ?
00:37 < LuckyLStrike> nice idea to create a webgui irc channel
00:37 <@snapcount> Bastard Operator From Hell
00:38 < LuckyLStrike> ;P
00:38 <@snapcount> it's an online comic
00:38 <@snapcount> google it... good stuff
00:38 <@snapcount> so what's the talk of the town
00:39 <@snapcount> I need to waste some of my time 
00:39 < LuckyLStrike> thx, bookmarked
00:39 <@snapcount> hehe
00:41 < LuckyLStrike> snapcount: too much time ?
00:43 <@crythias> hee
00:43 <@snapcount> no
00:43 <@snapcount> I don't have time to be doing this
00:43 <@snapcount> I just need a break
00:43 <@crythias> ewww soaking in WebGUI
00:44 <@snapcount> WGSOAKR
00:44 <@snapcount> you'd think we would be tired of this game by now
00:44 <@snapcount> but somehow it continues to remain ammusing
00:45 <@crythias> Hee
00:45 <@crythias> so simple. minor brain usage
00:52 <@snapcount> http://www.ebaumsworld.com/2006/01/brotherhit.html
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00:54 -!- mode/#webgui [+o pbmdawg] by xdanger
00:57 <@snapcount> !seen rizen
00:57 <@WRE> rizen (n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net) was last seen parting #WebGUI 8 hours, 5 minutes ago stating "{}".
00:57 <@snapcount> !seen phobia
00:57 <@WRE> phobia (n=phobia@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net) was last seen quitting from #WebGUI 22 hours, 14 minutes ago stating ({"Create} like a God, Command like a King, Work like a Slave <k!15b8>\").
01:37 <@pbmdawg> !bash
01:37 <@WRE> |bash 172| [@kode54] /quote:96 <smcn> uNF = universal noise of fucking
01:37 <@WRE> |bash 172| [@kode54] one of my few smcn quotes (I need more!)
01:37 <@WRE> |bash 172| [@smcn] ok i will say something funny
01:37 <@WRE> |bash 172| [@smcn] i'm having trouble breathing
01:37 <@WRE> |bash 172| [@smcn] and my dick is on fire
01:37 <@WRE> |bash 172| [@smcn] is this normal? 
01:37 <@pbmdawg> !bash
01:37 <@WRE> |bash 1147| <AirMonk> I'm still looking for a girl that can get aroused by the sound
01:37 <@WRE> |bash 1147| of a hard drive spinning down 
01:37 <@pbmdawg> !bash
01:37 <@WRE> |bash 1945| <infinity> IT'S AN EAST COAST WEST COAST THANG..BEEEEYOTCH!
01:37 <@WRE> |bash 1945| <al-x> east coast west coast for inf = russia and france
01:37 <@WRE> |bash 1945| <infinity> stfu asswipe 
01:38 <@pbmdawg> !bash
01:38 <@WRE> |bash 2085| [rancid_mf] wow i need to be a better typer i dont know what is going on
01:38 <@WRE> |bash 2085| (|Chris) typist*
01:38 <@WRE> |bash 2085| [rancid_mf] ok im am idiot too 
01:40 <@pbmdawg> !bash
01:40 <@WRE> |bash 2929| <neck> btw... bought an ice cream maker today :)
01:40 <@WRE> |bash 2929| <qu4ntum> dont you mean a donut maker ?
01:40 <@WRE> |bash 2929| <Lord-Data> very easy to get those confused ..
01:40 <@WRE> |bash 2929| <neck> oh hell yeah
01:40 <@WRE> |bash 2929| <neck> oh crap... it was a donut maker 
01:40 <@pbmdawg> !bash
01:40 <@WRE> |bash 3110| <putnam> this chinese kid said something so damn funny today on the phone
01:40 <@WRE> |bash 3110| <putnam> let me give you the exact quote that he said, i will make sure not to make any typos. just picture hearing a chinese thug say this
01:40 <@WRE> |bash 3110| <putnam> i said 'man i'm gonna kick your ass' and he responds with:
01:41 <@WRE> |bash 3110| <putnam> oh fuck nah...i'm gonna get some brick, and throw it across your window. i'm gonna throw it across your window and burn your bushes. 
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05:19 <@pbmdawg> !bash
05:19 <@WRE> |bash 4349| <Sharkey> I've been told I should be a phone sex operator.
05:19 <@WRE> |bash 4349| <Sharkey> Which gender hasn't been specified.
05:19 <@WRE> |bash 4349| <Xerox> I've been told I should be a phone sex caller.
05:19 <@WRE> |bash 4349| <Sharkey> Keep reaching for that rainbow.
05:19 <@WRE> |bash 4349| <Kashan> he's waiting for your call 
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14:24 <@crythias> !seen mac0nki
14:24 <@WRE> crythias, I don't remember seeing mac0nki.
14:24 <@crythias> !seen maconki
14:24 <@WRE> macOnki (n=hanswolt@lonki.xs4all.nl) was last seen parting #WebGUI 13 hours, 51 minutes ago stating "{{"Leaving"}}".
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15:24 < lenthamen> hello everyone
15:24 < lenthamen> Might it be that there is an inifinite loop error in WebGUI 6.7.8 ?
15:31 -!- pbmdawg [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui
15:31 -!- mode/#webgui [+o pbmdawg] by xdanger
15:31 <@pbmdawg> hello
15:31 < lenthamen> hey Matt
15:32 < lenthamen> Do you know if there is an infinite loop problem in WebGUI 6.7.8 ?
15:32 <@pbmdawg> I didn't think so.
15:32 <@pbmdawg> what module?
15:33 < lenthamen> I have WebGUI 6.7.8 running in production. Upgraded two weeks ago from 6.6.4 to 6.7.8
15:33 < lenthamen> Since then I have a huge load on that server
15:34 < lenthamen> and several http processes that have the state "Running" for hours
15:34 < lenthamen> while there is no traffic
15:34 <@pbmdawg> hrm
15:35 < lenthamen> that sounds lke an infinite loop problem.
15:35 < lenthamen> or something
15:36 <@pbmdawg> do you have any reason not to upgrade that one to 6.8.x?
15:36 < lenthamen> The only reason is that it is production so I have to plan it in
15:36 <@pbmdawg> b/c now that I think about it; there might have been something things fixed that could have caused unending things
15:36 < lenthamen> But I can definitely do that.
15:36 < lenthamen> Ah wait
15:36 < lenthamen> it's running on apache 1.3
15:36 <@pbmdawg> oh.
15:37 < lenthamen> because theres also php code running.
15:37 < lenthamen> grr
15:37 <@pbmdawg> you could do a modproxy chain.
15:37 <@pbmdawg> 1.3 as front end
15:37 < lenthamen> ah yeah, good idea
15:37 <@pbmdawg> 2.0 as modperl
15:37 <@pbmdawg> or even 2.2
15:37 <@pbmdawg> ;)
15:37 < lenthamen> ok
15:38 <@pbmdawg> that would keep the php and perl more segregated
15:39 <@pbmdawg> in fact, you could even use the wre for the back end...?
15:39 < lenthamen> It has worked together without problems though
15:39 < lenthamen> It happened after the migration.
15:39 <@pbmdawg> ok.
15:42 < lenthamen> Thanks to FreeBSD it keeps on running... 
15:52 < lenthamen> Hmm
15:54 < lenthamen> If I do a recursive download of the entire site, it'll end up with 20 RUN'ning apache processes
15:54 < lenthamen> and a load of 17
15:54 < lonki> hi guys
15:54 <@pbmdawg> hi
15:55 < lenthamen> aloa lonki
15:57 < lenthamen> Im going to install mytop and see if there is still db activity...
16:07 < lonki> lenthamen, mytop is nice yes
16:08 < lonki> lenthamen, but I would have a look at apache, I know plone.org had a simular problem with their site yesterday
16:13 < lenthamen> No sessions on the database...
16:13 < lenthamen> But 3 running httpd processes
16:13 < lenthamen> All http requests successful.
16:13 < lonki> weird
16:14 < lenthamen> going to install lsof
16:14 < lenthamen> and see what files apache keeps open
16:20 < lenthamen> lsof did not give any clue
16:28 < lenthamen> It runs stable if I don't preload the WebGUI modules.
16:29 <@pbmdawg> hm
16:32 < lenthamen> On this server its ok to run without preloading. Its low traffic. I'll stick with it for now...
16:42 -!- snapcount [i=snapcoun@64-193-14-144.dtb.clearwire-dns.net] has joined #webgui
16:43 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by WRE
16:56 <@pbmdawg> !bash
16:56 <@WRE> |bash 6266| <Masharoni> after that i vowed to clench my ass when barfing 
16:56 <@pbmdawg> !bash
16:56 <@WRE> |bash 6758| <Kilroy`> I had this blind date, her name was :. .:. : ... .:: -
16:56 <@WRE> |bash 6758| <Kilroy`> well, all I saw was the top of her head
16:56 <@WRE> |bash 6758| <Kilroy`> I wonder if I'll recognize her if I meet her again
16:56 <@WRE> |bash 6758| <Kilroy`> .....
16:56 <@WRE> |bash 6758| <dh> Kilroy`: I guess you'll just have to make every chick you meat give you head
16:56 <@WRE> |bash 6758| <dh> err meet
16:56 <@WRE> |bash 6758| <dh> but then, meat works too 
16:57 <@pbmdawg> !bash
16:57 <@WRE> |bash 8189| <Joe_> how do you downgrade to IE5.5? 
16:57 <@WRE> |bash 8189| <Soulflame> fdisk 
16:57 <@pbmdawg> !bash
16:57 <@WRE> |bash 9962| (@MpTaNk) one time, I wanted to call someone and their number was on my computer, and my first reaction was to cut and paste it to the phone 
16:57 <@pbmdawg> !bash
16:57 <@WRE> |bash 11888| <sparks> got the house to myself for the evening
16:57 <@WRE> |bash 11888| <Robert> bbl
16:57 <@WRE> |bash 11888| <Robert> hehe enjoy ;)
16:57 <@WRE> |bash 11888| <sparks> guess I'll invite a bunch of friends over and have a party and play rap music
16:57 <@WRE> |bash 11888| <sparks> by which I mean I'll order a pizza and nair my legs 
16:57 < lenthamen> !bash
16:57 <@WRE> |bash 14908| @(SikLogik) this one time... at computer camp... I shoved a linux cd in my windows computer 
16:57 <@pbmdawg> !bash
16:57 <@WRE> |bash 15312| úùú Quits: JESUS (adam@rootdown.net): Ping timeout 
16:57 <@WRE> |bash 15312| <Cyph3r> jesus died from my syn's 
16:57 <@pbmdawg> !bash
16:58 <@WRE> |bash 16974| <Cyc66> http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=****
16:58 <@WRE> |bash 16974| <Cyc66> plz ruin that auction
16:58 <@WRE> |bash 16974| <bbz_> what do i want to do that for?
16:58 <@WRE> |bash 16974| <Cyc66> she's a dirty whore
16:58 <@WRE> |bash 16974| <bbz> maybe i could get her phone number
16:58 <@WRE> |bash 16974| <Cyc66> uh why would u do that
16:58 <@WRE> |bash 16974| <bbz> well, if she is a dirty whore 
16:58 <@pbmdawg> !bash
16:58 <@WRE> |bash 17373| <LoRdZephyR> i cant swim 
16:58 <@WRE> |bash 17373| <roboman20> i thought only people with down syndrome couldnt swim 
16:58 <@WRE> |bash 17373| <LoRdZephyR> WELL YOUR WRONG WHORE 
16:58 <@WRE> |bash 17373| * roboman20 hands zeph a chromosome 
16:58 <@pbmdawg> !bash
16:58 <@WRE> |bash 21854| <fuck0ff> hi, does someone here know the escape sequence for a blank?
16:58 <@WRE> |bash 21854| <fuck0ff> hello? a blank ?
16:58 <@WRE> |bash 21854| <fuck0ff> escape sequence like 't' for tab, and blank like the things you do between words. ?
16:58 <@WRE> |bash 21854| <fuck0ff> it's for a c program
16:58 <@WRE> |bash 21854| <fuck0ff> has the channel #programming anything to do with, like to program?
16:58 <@WRE> |bash 21854| <MadSciFab> why do u need an escape sequence for a blank space?
16:58 <@WRE> |bash 21854| <MakAtak> err.. is that what you call 'space'? 
16:59 <@pbmdawg> lol
17:08 <@snapcount> http://www.stsc.hill.af.mil/crosstalk/2005/12/0512CroxfordChapman.html
17:08 <@snapcount> interesting...
17:18 <@snapcount> Hey Matt, are you doing bugs today?
17:26 <@snapcount> ok... I'm not much of a networking guy
17:26 <@snapcount> so if this is completely lame
17:26 <@snapcount> feel free to flame me
17:26 <@snapcount> I'll probably enjoy it
17:26 <@snapcount> neway
17:27 <@snapcount> I have a broadband provider
17:27 <@snapcount> that is wireless (clearwire)
17:27 <@snapcount> and it kinda sux
17:27 <@snapcount> I'm thinking about purchasing roadrunner (cable)
17:27 <@snapcount> b/c it was good to me before
17:27 <@snapcount> anyways, my brother wants to keep his clearwire
17:27 <@snapcount> (we live in same house)
17:28 <@snapcount> is it possible to bridge to broadband connections?
17:28 <@snapcount> to achieve faster downloads, etc?
17:30 <@pbmdawg> no
17:31 <@pbmdawg> no faster singular downloads, at least.
17:31 <@pbmdawg> if you have a dual or multi wan router that's nice enough it can split up some of your connections among the links.
17:41 -!- lenthamen [n=len@82-148-208-20.fiber.unet.nl] has left #webgui []
17:42 <@pbmdawg> but in that case, the router would need to be connected to two upstream networks that were connected to the wireless networks.
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18:03 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by WRE
18:38 <@snapcount> L                    A                         G
18:38 <@snapcount> grrrr
19:52 -!- macOnki [n=hanswolt@lonki.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui
19:52 < macOnki> hi
20:06 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
20:06 -!- mode/#webgui [+o crythias] by xdanger
20:07 <@crythias> another day at home. this time after doctors and drugstore
20:14  * macOnki is at home too, although that's normal around this time of the day :-)
20:15 <@crythias> darn
20:15 <@crythias> I can't be nick identify
20:15 <@crythias> that would be cool.
20:15 < macOnki> haha
20:15 < macOnki> ask lilo :-)
20:16 <@crythias> ?
20:16 <@crythias> !seen pbmdawg
20:16 <@WRE> crythias, pbmdawg is right here!
20:16 < macOnki> the person running the irc service, his nick is lilo
20:16 <@crythias> what would I ask him?
20:16 <@pbmdawg> !seen crythias
20:16 <@WRE> pbmdawg, crythias is right here!
20:17 < macOnki> to permit you to have the nick identify
20:17 <@crythias> I'd  be +b'd from irc.freenode.net
20:17 < macOnki> !seen WRE
20:17 <@WRE> macOnki, I'm right here.  Quit wasting my time!
20:17 < macOnki> as long as it's not klined :-)
20:18 <@crythias> klined?
20:18 < macOnki> see the freenode site
20:18 <@crythias> ok.
20:22 <@crythias> KLINE means Kill LIne
20:23 <@crythias> its original intention appears to be able to modify irc server params 
20:24 <@crythias> oh. duh
20:24 <@crythias> I'm a bit slow.
20:24 < macOnki> klined on irc is, afaik, banning a person from all servers
20:24 < macOnki> within the network
20:25 -!- pbmdawg is now known as klined
20:25 <@crythias> II. Using KILL and KLINE  The KILL and KLINE commands are as follows:
20:25 <@crythias>  	KILL nick :reason
20:25 <@crythias> 	KLINE nick :reason
20:25 <@crythias> 	KLINE username@hostmask :reason
20:25 <@crythias> http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/ircd/ircopguide.html
20:25 -!- klined is now known as klineMe
20:26 <@crythias> A K-line means that you don't want that user on your server, for whatever reason.  Depending on the server, K-lines may be cleared after a week or two, a few months, or maybe never.
20:26 <@crythias> now that is relevant to the discussion. While ignorant before, I now feel enlightened.
20:30  * macOnki huggles his new O'Reilly pdf
20:30 <@klineMe> which one
20:31 -!- klineMe is now known as pbmdawg
20:31 < macOnki> mastering regular expressions
20:31 <@crythias> see, when macOnki said, "(13:16:31) macOnki: as long as it's not klined :-)"
20:32 <@crythias> I assumed that macOnki was talking about a nick
20:32 <@pbmdawg> me2
20:32 <@crythias> rather, a noun. not a  verb
20:32 <@pbmdawg> a noun, not an adjective. :p
20:33 < macOnki> crythias	I'd  be +b'd from irc.freenode.net <-- I was refering to this line, +b is banned right?
20:33 <@crythias> yeah
20:34 <@crythias> but I was interpreting your comment to mean, "as long as it's not klined who is doing the banning"
20:34 <@pbmdawg> i was interpreting his comment to mean, "as long as you don't choose the nick 'klined' "
20:35 <@crythias> hence my confusion.
20:35 < macOnki> sorry for not being native guys, and for drinking beer late in the afternoon :-)
20:35 <@crythias> it's ok. I've not been on IRC since yesterday.
20:35 <@crythias> or this morning?
20:36 <@crythias> but before this recent setup, not for gosh. 10 years or so?
20:37 <@crythias> maybe I played with Microsoft's Chat on my own server.
20:37 < macOnki> brb, need a coffee
20:42 <@snapcount> crythias: the bug you reported about the CS and the wrong pagenumber
20:42 <@snapcount> the expected behavior is that when you are viewing the latest post in a thread on a seperate page and return to the CS that you should be on the same page as that thread...
20:42 <@snapcount> is that what you're saying?
20:43 <@pbmdawg> no
20:43 <@crythias> If I receive an email notification with link to post on page 2, I should be on page 2
20:43 <@pbmdawg> when you click or type a url of a post, and its thread is viewed, the page of the thread that contains that post should be displayed
20:43 <@pbmdawg> (since viewing a post actually views its parent thread)
20:44 <@crythias> http://digg.com/security/Student_arrested_for_deadly_F5_attack
20:44 <@crythias> comment: reminds me of the times when you tell the annoying IRC user to try to press ALT+F4 to filter the channel to only chat to girls. sigh
20:45 <@crythias> Felony
20:45 <@crythias> http://www.wkyc.com/akron/akron_article.aspx?storyid=45721
20:45 <@crythias> meanwhile digg effect hosed it.
20:46 <@pbmdawg> lol
20:46 <@pbmdawg> he'll be released, surely.
20:46 <@crythias> The defense has to be easy.
20:46 <@crythias> "I did something stupid, and the computers didn't crash. You arrested me, and the computers crashed. Who's to blame?"
21:35 <@crythias> ooh
21:35 <@crythias> someone googled gerald young webgui
21:35 <@crythias> NL domain :)
21:35 <@pbmdawg> ilance.nl ?
21:36 <@pbmdawg> or an isp, i assume
21:36 <@crythias> google.nl
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21:36 <@crythias> widnet.xs4all.nl 
21:36 <@crythias> originating site
21:37 <@crythias> not that I'm trying to be all big brother. Most of my hits are regarding pcanywhere.
21:37 <@crythias> although I get about 5/day regarding my antivirus updates.
21:37 <@crythias> (how to update norton antivirus definitions without subscription)
22:33 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has quit ["codeine kicking in. BSG starts tonight at 10pm on SciFi. Monk begins Jan 13th. The Shield -Tuesday. I watch too much tv?"]
--- Day changed Sat Jan 07 2006
00:16 <@snapcount> !bofh
00:16 <@WRE> BOFH Quick-excuse: secretary plugged hairdryer into UPS
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00:57 -!- mode/#webgui [+o pbmdawg] by xdanger
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01:05 <@snapcount> .wz Daytona Beach, FL.
01:18 <@snapcount> randcalc
01:23 <@snapcount> !bash
01:23 <@WRE> |bash 27436| KiSsAbLeMaiDeN: question
01:23 <@WRE> |bash 27436| KiSsAbLeMaiDeN: is it good for a girl to be hairy er no?
01:23 <@WRE> |bash 27436| KiSsAbLeMaiDeN: ?
01:23 <@WRE> |bash 27436| Eric3934: no
01:23 <@WRE> |bash 27436| KiSsAbLeMaiDeN: aight thanks 
01:24 <@snapcount> !bash
01:24 <@WRE> |bash 37236| * @Cryogen jumps up and down
01:24 <@WRE> |bash 37236| <@[4K^Got|AW]> I'm putting it in and stuff
01:24 <@WRE> |bash 37236| <@[4K^Got|AW]> it's coming VERY soon 
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01:53 -!- mode/#webgui [+o crythias] by xdanger
01:53 <@crythias> too bad Matt isn't here. he'd find something hilarious
01:54 <@crythias> We were playing the License tag game...
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16:18 -!- mode/#webgui [+o crythias] by xdanger
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16:29 < lenthamen> Crythias ?
16:31 <@crythias> hey
16:33 < lenthamen> Quick question. Do you have any idea why the hover help box is positioned so far down in the initial setup page ?
16:33 < lenthamen> http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1136644369_103/
16:34 < lenthamen> Just hover over "Password".
16:34 <@crythias> one sec
16:35 <@crythias> must be some config...
16:35 <@crythias> noting much in the page though..
16:35 < lenthamen> yeah an x / y offset or so
16:37 <@crythias> not on the page.
16:37 <@crythias> but that's creepy.
16:38 < lenthamen> I might log it as a bug so colink could have a look at it.
16:38 < lenthamen> He'll know it for sure.
16:39 <@crythias> ok.
16:39 <@crythias> var ttOffsetX      = 12;            // horizontal offset of left-top corner from mousepointer var ttOffsetY      = 15;           // vertical offset 
16:39 <@crythias> that's the default global
16:40 < lenthamen> I think it's b/c of this:
16:40 <@crythias> hrm... and it follows mouse
16:40 <@crythias> it's not usually supposed to.
16:41 < lenthamen> <div style=".....  top: 20%; left: 20%; .... ">
16:41 < lenthamen> because the offset changes if you make the browser window smaller.
16:42 < lenthamen> I need to go. I'll log a bug for this. ttyl.
16:42 <@crythias> ok.
17:03 -!- lenthamen [n=len@adsl-dc-2e425.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:32 <@crythias> !bash 59522
18:32 <@WRE> !bash: quote not found
18:33 <@crythias> !bash 595522
18:33 <@WRE> |bash| <Mod> he was very nasty. called him that word you never wanna call a black man
18:33 <@WRE> |bash| <Sirak> ??
18:33 <@WRE> |bash| <Mod> no one ever wants to call a black man the word that begins with 'n' ends in 'r' and has 'ig' in the middle
18:33 <@WRE> |bash| <Sirak> Neighbour? 
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--- Day changed Sun Jan 08 2006
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00:46 <@snapcount> !lastspoke crythias
00:46 <@WRE> crythias last uttered a word on #webgui 3 hours, 52 minutes ago.
01:00 < macOnki> hmm, lenthamen, you are still working? :-)
01:01 < macOnki> hi guys
01:11 <@snapcount> !lastspoke lenthamen
01:11 <@WRE> lenthamen last uttered a word on #webgui 56 minutes ago.
01:13 <@snapcount> seeing as how we have a big crowd here and everything... this is probably pointless
01:13 <@snapcount> but
01:13 <@snapcount> I have a bot running #webgui on efnet now
01:13 <@snapcount> supposedly we can link the channels together
01:13 <@snapcount> with a botnet
01:13 <@snapcount> I'm reading about it... this stuff is rather new to me
01:13 < macOnki> eeks efnet, that is ages ago
01:14 <@snapcount> seems to be a lot more ppl than freenode :-)
01:14 <@snapcount> what's "cool" these days?
01:14 < macOnki> yeah, knocking on your frontdoor
01:14 < macOnki> snapcount, what do you mean by cool? irc channels?
01:14 <@snapcount> networks
01:15 <@snapcount> efnet seems to be very popular
01:15 < macOnki> dunno, been stuck to oftc.net and a bit of nonfreenode these days
01:15 <@snapcount> oh ok
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05:07 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by WRE
05:14 <@snapcount> sweet
05:14 <@snapcount> wre has established a botnet with gooey in #webgui on efnet
05:15 <@snapcount> my diabolical plan to takeover all irc networks is nearing completion
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06:59 -!- mode/#webgui [+o WRE] by snapcount
07:03 <@snapcount> hello
07:04 <@snapcount> !addclink #webgui #webgui
07:04 <@snapcount> hello
07:14 <@snapcount> what the hell
07:21 <@snapcount> hello
07:34 <@snapcount> !cn
07:34 <@WRE> Hi! I'm WRE, #WebGUI's channel bot. The funny stuff you see from me, like (snapcount@SN), are people on other nets. I provide a channel link between this channel on 8 nets.
07:34 <@WRE> To see who else is on the channel, type  !cnlist in the channel.
07:35 <@snapcount> !cnlist
07:36 <@snapcount> !listcnet
07:36 <@snapcount> !listclink
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07:48 -!- WRE [n=WRE@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has joined #WebGUI
07:48 -!- mode/#webgui [+o WRE] by snapcount
07:48 <@snapcount> !listcnet
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07:51 -!- snapc0unt is now known as snapcount
07:52 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by WRE
08:06 <@snapcount> !addcspy #novell #webgui
08:06 <@snapcount> !delcspy 0
08:23 -!- WRE [n=WRE@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has quit ["snapcount"]
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08:25 -!- mode/#webgui [+o WRE] by snapcount
08:26 <@snapcount> !listclink
08:26 <@snapcount> !delclink 0
08:27 <@snapcount> !listclink
08:27 <@snapcount> !addclink #webgui #webgui
08:27 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) ;lafj;dlkfja;dklfja;dklf
08:28 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) it fucking works
08:28 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) holy shit
08:28 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) it works
08:28 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) holy holy shit shit
08:28 <@snapcount> bad ass
08:28 <@WRE> (phobia@EN) heh
08:28 <@WRE> (phobia@EN) sweeeeet
08:28 <@WRE> (phobia@EN) now I can mock you guys without even leaving Efnet :P
08:29 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) haha
08:30 <@WRE> (phobia@EN) well, I think ima crash now
08:30 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) cool
08:30 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) later man
08:30 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) thx
08:30 <@WRE> (phobia@EN) if you set the topic here to something inviting, you'll probablt get periodic visitors looking for assistance with WebGUI
08:30 <@WRE> (phobia@EN) hey no problem, glad we(you) got it working :)
08:31 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) k
08:31 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) now for the weather script
08:31 <@WRE> (phobia@EN) good luck with that :)
08:31 <@WRE> (phobia@EN) it's b0rken
08:31 <@WRE> (phobia@EN) I dunno how reb00t got it working on NLM...
08:31 <@WRE> (phobia@EN) I've never had much luck with it
08:39 <@snapcount> !delclink 0
08:39 <@snapcount> testing
08:40 <@snapcount> !listclink
08:40 <@snapcount> testing 1...2...3...
08:44 <@snapcount> !addclink #webgui #webgui
08:44 <@snapcount> test
08:44 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) test
08:47 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) gooey: goodnight
08:51 <@snapcount> !cn
08:51 <@WRE> Hi! I'm WRE, #WebGUI's channel bot. The funny stuff you see from me, like (snapcount@SN), are people on other nets. I provide a channel link between this channel on 8 nets.
08:51 <@WRE> To see who else is on the channel, type  !cnlist in the channel.
08:51 <@snapcount> !cnlist
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09:12 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) k
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09:12 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) kdk
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16:40 -!- mode/#webgui [+o pbmdawg] by xdanger
16:41 <@pbmdawg> howdy
16:41 < macOnki> hi
16:41 <@pbmdawg> what's up
16:42 < macOnki> nothing much, just enjoying a day at home
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18:19 <@snapcount> is there a reason this channel is secret?
18:21 -!- mode/#webgui [-s] by snapcount
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21:08 <@pbmdawg> i dunno why it was secret
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21:15 -!- mode/#webgui [+o crythias] by xdanger
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21:21 <@crythias> hi
21:21 <@crythias> Len, what do I do to tell my laptop to use ram instead of swap?
21:21 <@crythias> I have 512MB and first loads are not touching ram but thrashing hd like nothing.
21:23 <@crythias> laptop running freebsd, btw
21:27 -!- specsmu [n=rmiller@ppp-71-128-23-212.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #webgui
21:28 < specsmu> hello, anyone awake?
21:28 < specsmu> webgui says it comes with a built in photogallery.
21:28 < specsmu> I need it, and I can't find it anywhere.
21:28 < specsmu> can you point me in the right direction?
21:29 <@crythias> hrm
21:29 < lenthamen> hi specsmu
21:29 < specsmu> hi lenthamen 
21:29 < lenthamen> what version of WebGUI are you using ?
21:29 < specsmu> this has been a horrible upgrade
21:30 < specsmu> 6.8.3
21:30 < specsmu> the latest
21:30 < lenthamen> ok
21:30 < specsmu> I was using 6.1.1, which the client liked, and it had a photogallery I could install
21:30 < specsmu> that photogallery no longer works
21:30 < lenthamen> You need to use the generic "Collaboration System" for that.
21:30 < specsmu> ahh, let me try.
21:30 < lenthamen> It has a Photo Gallery template.
21:30 < specsmu> oooo, I see!
21:31  * specsmu creates a new page to test that on.
21:32 < lenthamen> crythias: No idea why it start using swap memory instead of physical memory.
21:32 < specsmu> what's the problem?  I know a little bit about VM.
21:33 < lenthamen> (20:21:28) crythias: Len, what do I do to tell my laptop to use ram instead of swap?
21:33 < lenthamen> (20:21:49) crythias: I have 512MB and first loads are not touching ram but thrashing hd like nothing.
21:33 < lenthamen> (20:23:20) crythias: laptop running freebsd, btw
21:33 < specsmu> that's odd.
21:33 <@crythias> From what I'm reading, starting apps DO use hd swap.
21:33 < specsmu> and you have a lot of free ram available while it does that?
21:33 <@crythias> gobs
21:33 < specsmu> that is really odd.
21:33 <@crythias> I think.
21:34 <@crythias> top?
21:34 < specsmu> or free.
21:34 < specsmu> or vmstat. :)
21:34 < specsmu> brb.
21:35 <@crythias> no free
21:35 < lenthamen> top will do it
21:36 <@crythias> avm223428 fre 291680
21:37 < lenthamen> my httpd is not using any swap if I start it.
21:37 < lenthamen> as supposed :)
21:37 < specsmu> hmm.
21:37 < specsmu> that does seem a little strange to me, but I'm more of a linux expert.
21:37 < lenthamen> crythias: I've never seen this before on freebsd
21:38 < lenthamen> Is that WebGUI 6.8 :? 
21:38 <@crythias> it's an ancient laptop. who knows.
21:38 <@crythias> This is standard app. firefox, thunderbird, etc.
21:38 < lenthamen> how much ram  ?
21:38 <@crythias> once run, I don't have to worry about the speed of launch.
21:39 <@crythias> even if closed. 512MB total
21:39 <@crythias> I'm using ion3 window manager, so it's almost nothing.
21:41 < lenthamen> It *might be* that at first loads all 512MB is used, and that is needs swapping ? 
21:42 <@crythias> hrm...
21:42 < lenthamen> I never use freebsd in graphical mode btw
21:43 < specsmu> ok, this is progress, but there's nothing next to "attachment"
21:43 < specsmu> even after I said you can have 20 attachments per post.
21:44 <@crythias> ok. I'm going to ##freebsd
21:46 < specsmu> ohhhh.  it doesn't work with konqueror.
21:47 < lenthamen> I've never used the CS Photo Gallery.
21:47 < lenthamen> Testing it on demo.plainblack.com...
21:50 < lenthamen> works fine for me..
21:50 <@crythias> yuck
21:50 < specsmu> are you using IE?
21:51 < lenthamen> yep
21:51 < specsmu> I'm using mozilla (now) and it's not uploading the attachments at all.
21:51 < lenthamen> should work on firefox as wel.
21:51 < specsmu> it's not uploading any of the pictures using mozilla.
21:52 < lenthamen> strange
21:52 < specsmu> I'll try installing firefox, but I think it uses the same engine.
21:52 < lenthamen> try it on demo.plainblack.com
21:52 < specsmu> k
21:53  * specsmu tries
21:55 < lenthamen> k
21:55 < specsmu> nope, not there either.
21:57 < lenthamen> ok. It works for me. I'll try it with firefox.
21:57 < lenthamen> What file did you try to upload ?
21:58 < specsmu> thx, and I'll download firefox and try that instead of mozilla.
21:58 < specsmu> a jpg.
21:58 < specsmu> actually, two jpgs at first.
21:59 < lenthamen> works for me with firefox
21:59 < specsmu> well, I'm downloadinng firefox now..
21:59 < specsmu> I usually use just plain mozilla
21:59 < specsmu> but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense because they use the same engine
22:02 < specsmu> ok, that failed too.
22:02 < specsmu> can I tell you how I did it?
22:03 < specsmu> I might be missing something basic.
22:03 < specsmu> I created a new post...
22:03 < specsmu> typed a nonsense into the subject and message, and then entered a filename into "attachment".
22:03 < specsmu> then I clicked outside the box, and it showed an icon like a pallette.
22:04 < specsmu> and then I clicked save.
22:04 < lenthamen> http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1136749495_85/home 
22:04 < specsmu> now when I created the photo gallery...
22:05 < specsmu> I did so with a "ohoto gallery" template, and allow 20 attachments, but I did nothing else special.
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22:06 < lenthamen> try look at the settings here: http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1136749495_85/home 
22:06 < lenthamen> you can login with admin / 123qwe
22:06 < specsmu> yup
22:06 < specsmu> looking
22:07 < specsmu> sorry to be a pain
22:07 < lenthamen> no prob :)
22:07 < specsmu> this has been kicking my butt for a week...
22:07 < specsmu> not just this but everything related to it
22:07 < lenthamen> are you behind a proxy or something ? 
22:08 < specsmu> nope.
22:08 < lenthamen> ok
22:08 < specsmu> standard linux machine sitting on a standard dsl connection.
22:08 < lenthamen> ah wait
22:08 < lenthamen> how big is that jpg ? 
22:08 < specsmu> let me look
22:08 < specsmu> 5K
22:08 < lenthamen> hehe
22:09 < lenthamen> that's ok then.
22:09 < specsmu> but I notice you didn't put anything in the "message".  hmm.
22:09 < lenthamen> let me try that.
22:11 < lenthamen> works fine
22:11 < specsmu> nope, nothing.
22:11 < specsmu> time to check the error logs.
22:11 < specsmu> ooo.
22:12 < specsmu> I think I may have goofed.
22:13 < specsmu> yup.  I fsked up.
22:13 < specsmu> wrong upload location in the config file.
22:13 < specsmu> though that doesn't explain the demo failing to work for me..
22:14 < lenthamen> ah yeah that make sense.
22:14 < lenthamen> try another client.
22:14 < specsmu> well, it doesn't work in konqueror, that's for daaaaamn sure.
22:14 < specsmu> the attachment box doesn't even show up.
22:15 < lenthamen> firefox must work. all developers use that...
22:25 < specsmu> now to work on the templates
22:25 < specsmu> is there any harm in making a graphics directory that is NOT under the auspices of webgui?
22:27 < lenthamen> sry, what do you mean with that ?
22:27 < specsmu> you know how in the vhost you have SetHandler PerlScript or some such
22:28 < specsmu> I want to make a <Location /graphics> SetHandler None </Location>
22:28 < specsmu> Any harm in that?
22:28 < specsmu> so I can dump graphics in there and refer to them in the stylesheet
22:28 < lenthamen> yeah you could savely do that.
22:28 < specsmu> cool. thanks.
22:32 < specsmu> excellent. :)
22:33 < lenthamen> ok. good to know that it's working :)
22:33 < specsmu> yeah
22:33 < specsmu> it's a good start
22:34 < specsmu> someone might want to put a note on the web page that an install that used the old photogallery is not upgradable.
22:37 < lenthamen> you could mail the author...
22:38 < specsmu> well, the problem is that the photogallery wobject is stuck in the database somehow
22:38 < specsmu> so there's no easy way to pull it out so the rest of the site will work.
22:39 < specsmu> anyway, time to eat something and fsck with the templates...  yawn.
22:40 < lenthamen> a "delete from wobject where namespace='PhotoGallery' should do it...
22:40 < specsmu> hmm, well, bit late for that now... no biggie
22:41 < specsmu> where do you edit templates?
22:41 < lenthamen> eh, what template do you want to delete ?
22:41 < specsmu> I don't want to delete one, I want to either create a new one or edit the default one.
22:42 < specsmu> I knew how to do all this in 6.1.1 :)
22:42 < lenthamen> just edit the Collaboration System Asset, and click on "manage" next to the template
22:43 < specsmu> and that'll let me manage the whole thing?
22:43 < specsmu> I want to fsck the whole site up. :)
22:43 < lenthamen> templates are assets, you can find them also through the asset manager.
22:43  * specsmu looks
22:44 < specsmu> ahh, I see.
22:44 < specsmu> not exactly intuitive, but better than 6.1
22:44 < lenthamen> will take you a day or two to get used to the new webgui :)
22:44 < lenthamen> everything is a asset
22:45 < specsmu> well, once I have it all set up, I don't have to touch it anymore, my client will be doing all the updating
22:45 < specsmu> that's why I use CMS... so he doesn't have to bug me
22:45 < lenthamen> everything has it's own url.
22:45 < lenthamen> hehe
22:45 < specsmu> he likes it too because I'd have to charge him if he wanted to bug me all the time.  lol.
22:46 < lenthamen> pages are called layout btw
22:46 < specsmu> ahh.
22:47 < lenthamen> going to watch a movie with Her Majesty ;)
22:47 < specsmu> have fun.
22:47 < lenthamen> ttyl 
22:48 < specsmu> thanks.
--- Day changed Mon Jan 09 2006
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00:22 <@snapcount> anyone alive?
00:28 < specsmu> yes.
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00:38 < macOnki> wiggy, I saw your posting about the bug I mentioned last night, any idea on how you guys are going to solve it?
00:39 -!- snapc0unt is now known as snapcount
00:39 < macOnki> hmm, wrong channel
00:40 < specsmu> I think I just found a bug.
00:40 < specsmu> if I paste a navigation into root/home, it doesn't stick.
00:40 < specsmu> I don't see any "save" button anywhere, either.
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00:46 <@snapcount> what? no lag... do I finally have a *real* connection???
00:51 < macOnki> :-)
00:54 < specsmu> what is the proper way of including a Navigation?
00:56 < specsmu> I tried "AssetProxy"
00:56 < specsmu> but somehow I don't think that's right
01:01 < specsmu> the template tags are very poorly documented
01:04 < lenthamen> ^AssetProxy(/your/navigation/url);
01:04 < lenthamen> I might have some lag as I'm currently downloading all 21 James Bond dvd's.
01:04 < lenthamen> hehe
01:05 < macOnki> lenthamen, grmbl, seen that torrent too :-)
01:06 < lenthamen> I'm using the newsgroups.
01:07 < macOnki> ah
01:08 < lenthamen> 98 gig in the queue :)
01:09 < lenthamen> newsleecher says I've another 92 hours to go 
01:09 < specsmu> hmm, thanks
01:10 <@snapcount> this sux
01:10 <@snapcount> I'm going to have to get a new ISP
01:11 <@snapcount> this connection isn't reliable enough to maintain the botnet between here and Efnet
01:12 <@snapcount> oh well, enough playing
01:12 <@snapcount> time to squash some bugz
01:15 < specsmu> I so hate CSS.
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02:03 < specsmu> this is turning out well.
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17:34 < specsmu> heh, I have a new webgui install down to a few minutes
17:40 < crythias> yes. it gets like that.
17:41 < crythias> Magician tricks. You'd be irritated if you knew how they were accomplished.
17:43 < specsmu> there used to be a way to add a picture to an article - is there still?
17:43 < specsmu> it looks like it was removed
17:46 < crythias> there is imbedding via the toolbar
17:46 < crythias> but genereally, not through articles.
17:46 < crythias> ^AssetProxy(/url/to/image);
17:47 < specsmu> hmm
17:55 -!- lonki is now known as lonki_home
18:03 < specsmu> can you do AssetProxy calls from inside the edit screen of an article?
18:03 < crythias> yes
18:04 < specsmu> hmm
18:04 < crythias> esp. in html mode.
18:04 < specsmu> I'm trying to figure out how I can tell my completely nontechnical client how to insert a picture
18:04 < crythias> use the picture thing of the bar.
18:04 < specsmu> the who wha?
18:05 < crythias> the add picture duhickey of the edit bar.
18:05  * specsmu looks
18:05 < specsmu> none of those things show up on konqueror
18:05 < crythias> if not there, you can customize the bar to add it.
18:09 < specsmu> I see
18:10 < specsmu> I am so tempted sometimes to tell him "here's your login and password.. use dreamweaver"
18:10 < specsmu> :-D
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19:01 < crythias> op
19:01 < crythias> ?
19:02 < specsmu> I'm not used to seeing people op each other on freenode
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20:45 < crythias> hi
20:46 < crythias> I'm trying to install WG 4.0.0 on my Windows 98 box.
20:47 < crythias> It gives me an error every time I try to start that web thing. IQ level LESS_THAN_OR_EQUAL_TO 50
20:47 < crythias> Access 95 seems to not work for holding the data.
20:47 < crythias> what did I do wrong?
20:50 < crythias> feh. this webgui thing is impossible to install. it is teh suck.
20:50 < crythias> If I can't apt-get it, it's not going on my debian box.
21:35 < crythias> !seen pbmdawg
21:35 <@WRE> pbmdawg (i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com) was last seen parting #WebGUI 1 day, 20 minutes ago stating "{}".
21:35 < crythias> !lastspoke pbmdawg
21:42 < specsmu> crythias: it is indeed difficult to install.
21:56 < crythias> I'm being goofy.
21:57 < specsmu> heh.
21:57 < specsmu> and I'm being mickey
21:58 < crythias> I'm liking my palm Tungsten E..
21:58 < crythias> I have a 1gb sd card in it.
21:58 < crythias> ok. so per GB, it's expensive.
21:58 < crythias> but it's still fun.
22:04 < specsmu> most fun things are expensive.
22:06 < crythias> Bjork rocks.
22:06 < crythias> or. doesn't. but still cool.
22:07  * crythias feels wrinkled and pruny. Maybe he's been soaking too long.
22:07 < specsmu> maybe you're just old :)
22:07 < crythias> I can't be.
22:08 < crythias> well..
22:08 < specsmu> why not?
22:08 < crythias> is 34 old?
22:08 < specsmu> I'm 30, so yes. :)
22:08 < specsmu> you old geezer you
22:09 < crythias> Just you wait.
22:09 < specsmu> *snicker*
22:10 < crythias> you young whippersnapper. And  get off'n mah lawn, afore I git the hose.
22:10 < specsmu> *steals your walker*
22:10  * crythias waves his walking stick...
22:10 < crythias> y'all come back hyere wit mah walkah, yahear!
22:11 < crythias> doan make me git my boom stick. 
22:11 < crythias> Earline! Git back t' da house. I's a gonna shoot what gots mah walker.
22:12 < specsmu> hehe
22:12 < crythias> don't touch da chrome.
22:12 < specsmu> tell me a story about the old days, gramps
22:12 < crythias> I dun brasso'd it last nie-yit.
22:13 < crythias> When I wuz yer age, I was recoverin' from that why too kay thingermajig.
22:14 < crythias> ok, so it took me a year to recover, so doan giv me no lip, boh-ee
22:14 < specsmu> I was only 25 at the time...  I don't remember it gramps
22:15 < crythias> When I was yer age, I didn't have no 3GHz Pea cease.
22:16 < crythias> We was larnin to yooz dat Windoze two t'ousand.
22:16 < crythias> iPods? dernit, we were using them ree-oh thangs.
22:17 < crythias> Doom 3? still vaporware.
22:18 < specsmu> heh
22:18 < specsmu> and that's the way it was, and you liked it?
22:19 < crythias> we went uphill both ways in our non-hybrid SUV's and we liked it.
22:20 < specsmu> hehe
22:21 < crythias> we didn't have no monolith in are back yard
22:22 < crythias> we just got over a big hit two dem big buildings in new york city
22:23 < crythias> we had whatchacall that Code Red virus. 
22:23 < crythias> didn't affect me, none.
22:23 < specsmu> it;s funny to think about the kids today being old people
22:24 < specsmu> or scary..
22:24 < crythias> yeah
22:25 < specsmu> no one ever thinks of goths as 80 year olds.
22:25 < crythias> it's funny to think of kids graduating that were born near my grad date.
22:26 < specsmu> so what do you think:  www.thinwood.com
22:26 < specsmu> the latest webgui install.
22:26 < specsmu> no logo yet.
22:26 < crythias> When I was your'n age, we got ourselves that Pentium 3, and we're told the P4's on its way. Overshadowed by Athlon...
22:26 < specsmu> I'm waiting for him to give me one
22:27 < specsmu> turns out I had some built-in job security on this one, he tried to get some other people to do the template work, and they couldn't even *find* the templates.
22:27 < specsmu> lol
22:28 < crythias> heh
22:28 < specsmu> wonder if plainback would hire me to help with installs.
22:28 < specsmu> my guess is, they were logging in and looking on the server.
22:28 < specsmu> *giggles*
22:29 < crythias> heh
22:29 < crythias> We had Max Payne and Civ III when I was your'n age.
22:29 < specsmu> and don't forget no simcity 4000
22:30 < crythias> http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=2001yir&page=9
22:30 < crythias> actually, not much that screams "exciting" in 2001
22:31 < crythias> That is to say, not much that seems like we've advanced that much farther in 5 years.
22:32 < crythias> nVidia still owns, AMD is still better than Intel, 22" LCD's are still out of most pocketbook ranges, and plasma TV's are still up there.
22:32 < specsmu> yeah, things have stagnated a bit.
22:32 < crythias> The shuttle pc case is eh, but not anything near it.
22:32 < specsmu> I will be happy when there's fast 100G mass storage that has no moving parts.
22:32 < specsmu> by fast, I mean approaching the speed of DRAM.
22:33 < crythias> well, that's a good start.
22:33 < specsmu> well, let's see what I have in the way of food
22:33 < crythias> I'm thinking that a ram-slot usb attachment wouldn't be unheard of.
22:34 < crythias> I realize the immediate thing is "WHAT?"
22:34 < specsmu> I'd really hesitate to stick anything but RAM in a ram-slot.
22:34 < specsmu> but something being on the north bus might be cool.
22:34 < crythias> Imagine, though... maybe 4-8 slots, available for up to 8MB per slot.
22:35 < crythias> 8 GB per slot
22:35 < crythias> fast RAM
22:35 < crythias> attaches to USB port
22:35 < crythias> what's the point?
22:35 < crythias> good question.
22:36 < crythias> except it's great for volatile ram situations... tmp, "Bad" stuff, etc.
22:37 < crythias> mount that volatile ram and run your torrents off of it.
22:38 < crythias> use it for unencryption, etc.
22:38 < crythias> while your PC is on, it's just another drive letter. Feds come, oops. all gone.
23:00 < crythias> going home.
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--- Day changed Tue Jan 10 2006
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02:40 -!- mode/#webgui [+o pbmdawg] by xdanger
02:42 -!- pbmdawg [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has left #webgui []
03:50 -!- specsmu is now known as WinterWOO
04:03 -!- WinterWOO is now known as specsmu
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05:40 -!- mode/#webgui [+o pbmdawg] by xdanger
05:40 <@pbmdawg> howdy
05:41 < specsmu> hi
05:41 <@pbmdawg> what's happening
05:45 <@pbmdawg> with whom am I speaking
05:47 <@pbmdawg> this is mwilson from the dev list / pb boards.
05:47 < specsmu> with me. :)
05:47 < specsmu> probably no one you know.
05:48 <@pbmdawg> ok.
05:48 <@pbmdawg> !bash
05:48 <@WRE> |bash 1222| <Ron912> oh wow pregnant porno
05:48 <@WRE> |bash 1222| <Ron912> that's like a 2 for 1 deal 
05:48 <@pbmdawg> !bash
05:48 <@pbmdawg> !bash
05:48 <@WRE> |bash 1545| <peng> Guilty and I never had dealings
05:48 <@WRE> |bash 1545| <Guilty> Remember that time you were lonely and couldnt find any new Brittney porn
05:48 <@WRE> |bash 1545| <peng> which time
05:48 <@WRE> |bash 1545| <Guilty> And I hadnt gotten a haircut in a while so my golden locks were flowing
05:48 <@pbmdawg> !bash
05:48 <@WRE> |bash 1545| <Guilty> And I happen to have a tight red jumpsuit...
05:48 <@WRE> |bash 1545| <Guilty> And well, you know 
05:48 <@pbmdawg> I really don't know why that does that.
05:49 < specsmu> does what?
05:49 <@pbmdawg> replies with those obscene quotes
05:50 < specsmu> bash.org, I think.
05:52 < specsmu> most of the quotes on bash.org are obscene
05:52 <@pbmdawg> why are you in the webgui room
05:52 <@pbmdawg> (curious)
05:52 <@pbmdawg> did you chat a lot in here today
05:52 < specsmu> because I installed webgui yesterday and never left. :)
05:53 < specsmu> not much.
05:53 <@pbmdawg> oh ok.
05:53 <@pbmdawg> were you successful (at installing webgui)?
05:53 < specsmu> yes
05:53 < specsmu> in fact, I've got a new install down to about 30 minutes.
05:54 < specsmu> about 5 without having to mess with perl modules :)
05:54 <@pbmdawg> what o/s.
05:54 < specsmu> linux
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09:36 -!- lonki_home is now known as lonki
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22:23 < crythias> two men walked into a bar. You'd think the second one would've noticed the first one...
23:25 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has left #webgui []
--- Day changed Wed Jan 11 2006
01:09 < specsmu> is there any way to increase the size of the photos in the photo gallery collaboration thingy?
01:43 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
01:43 -!- mode/#webgui [+o crythias] by xdanger
01:43 < specsmu> hi crythias 
01:43 <@crythias> hello
01:44  * crythias rescues the damsel from this dress.
01:44 <@crythias> erm.. no, that's not right...
01:45 -!- crythias changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI real time help. et al. | http://www.plainblack.com | WebGUI - You're soaking in it. | 6.8.4 latest version
01:46 <@crythias> weird. my name is one of the most used words in the past 11 days.
01:50 < specsmu> is there any way to increase the size of the photos in the photo gallery collaboration thingy?
01:54 <@crythias> dunno, personally.
01:54 -!- macOnki [n=hanswolt@lonki.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui ["Leaving"]
01:58 < specsmu> hmm
02:10 <@crythias> .-.__.-.
02:10 <@crythias> \ o-o /
02:10 <@crythias>  ` ~'
02:12 <@crythias> too much tv to watch tonight.
02:12 <@crythias> I'm a sucker.
02:18 < specsmu> lol
02:24 <@crythias> House, The Shield...
02:25 <@crythias> I probably won't stay up that long. 
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02:49 -!- mode/#webgui [+o pbmdawg] by xdanger
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04:43 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by WRE
05:45 <@snapcount> echo
05:45 -!- WRE [n=WRE@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
05:45 < specsmu> snapcount: EPERM
05:46 -!- WRE [n=WRE@66-46-142-242.amtelecom.net] has joined #WebGUI
05:46 -!- mode/#webgui [+o WRE] by snapcount
05:46 <@snapcount> huh?
05:46 < specsmu> heh
05:46 < specsmu> you echoed
05:46 -!- pbmdawg [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui
05:46 -!- mode/#webgui [+o pbmdawg] by xdanger
05:46 <@pbmdawg> !bash
05:46 <@WRE> |bash 57| <hypr> if i was getting it in the ass by a brute id fucking kill him stab him in the throat with a pencil or something 
05:47 <@snapcount> heh
05:47 <@snapcount> #webgui
05:47 <@snapcount> a chatroom for family and friends
05:47 <@snapcount> lol
05:47 <@pbmdawg> definitely.
05:47 < specsmu> hey, my friends would think that's tame
05:49 <@snapcount> your friends sound like my friends
05:49 <@snapcount> grrr
05:49 <@pbmdawg> i don't have any friends like that.
05:49 <@snapcount> wre is being a prick
05:49 <@pbmdawg> how could anyone call a throat-pencil-stab "tame"?
05:50 <@pbmdawg> !bash
05:50 <@WRE> |bash 2468| <god4ever> I had sex before, just never with a person 
05:50 <@pbmdawg> !bash
05:50 <@WRE> |bash 3647| *** Now talking in #funadultchat
05:50 <@WRE> |bash 3647| <Megumi> i am ready to receive my fun 
05:51 <@pbmdawg> hey crythias; are you there
05:52 <@snapcount> wre probably scared him
05:52 <@snapcount> wre: be nice
05:54 < specsmu> heh
05:55 < specsmu> !bash
05:55 <@WRE> |bash 4062| <DigDug> <nowakow> does anyone want to teach a horny female to masturbate to orgasm?
05:55 <@WRE> |bash 4062| <DigDug> Approve Kill Nothing
05:55 <@WRE> |bash 4062| <orion> kill;
05:55 <@WRE> |bash 4062| <jestuh> kill
05:55 <@WRE> |bash 4062| <jestuh> if she's horny she knows what to do 
05:55 < specsmu> wtf?
05:56 <@pbmdawg> !bash
05:56 <@WRE> |bash 522| <J3anyus> my bellybutton smells worse than my ass
05:56 <@WRE> |bash 522| <DigDug> heh
05:56 <@WRE> |bash 522| <DigDug> how do you smell your bellybutton?
05:56 < specsmu> ok I don't take responsibility for anything but the !bash command. :)
05:56 <@WRE> |bash 522| <J3anyus> digdug: pick all the lint out of it and then smell your finger : 
05:56 <@snapcount> heh
05:56 <@pbmdawg> !bash
05:56 <@WRE> |bash 710| <iln> i haven't stuck anything up my ass before but i've thought about it 
05:56 <@snapcount> I'm about to teach him some new tricks
05:56 <@snapcount> now that I have a stable internet connection
05:57 <@snapcount> this channel should be linked to the one on Efnet soon
05:57 <@pbmdawg> !bash 115
05:57 <@WRE> |bash| <BlackDeth> i like stalked this girl sorta :D
05:57 <@WRE> |bash| <BlackDeth> like once she asked me for a ride home from work
05:57 <@WRE> |bash| <BlackDeth> and i took her home... i dropped her off at her house
05:57 <@WRE> |bash| <BlackDeth> and shes like... wait a minute..how did you know where i lived? 
05:58 <@pbmdawg> !bash 3896
05:58 <@WRE> !bash: quote not found
05:58 <@pbmdawg> !bash 4488
05:58 <@WRE> |bash| <FM{FF1}> Rizen: I thought you didn't bang chicks, only me.
05:58 <@WRE> |bash| <FM{FF1}> ...men.
05:58 <@WRE> |bash| <FM{FF1}> GOD THAT WAS A BAD TYPO. 
05:59 <@pbmdawg> !bash 34040
05:59 <@WRE> |bash| <rizen> I can put my penis in my belly button.
05:59 <@WRE> |bash| <rizen> Envy me. 
05:59 <@pbmdawg> !bash 34037
05:59 <@WRE> |bash| <rizen> huge tits are not good
05:59 <@WRE> |bash| <rizen> but then
05:59 <@WRE> |bash| <rizen> I fuck guys
05:59 <@WRE> |bash| <rizen> so take it as you will 
05:59 <@pbmdawg> !bash 105260
05:59 <@WRE> |bash| <Hydra> Gary Coleman's the shit...
05:59 <@WRE> |bash| <int> ...
05:59 <@WRE> |bash| <rizen> yeah, he's about the size and coloration of a turd 
06:01 <@pbmdawg> !bash 151861
06:01 <@WRE> |bash| -[Conroy_Bumpus]- OH FUCK ME
06:01 <@WRE> |bash| -[Conroy_Bumpus]- I FORGOT TO PICK UP MY 7 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER FROM SOCCER PRACTICE
06:01 <@WRE> |bash| -[Conroy_Bumpus]- 9 HOURS AGO
06:01 <@WRE> |bash| -[Conroy_Bumpus]- HOLY SHIT
06:01 <@WRE> |bash| -[Conroy_Bumpus]- BYE 
06:01 <@pbmdawg> !bash 15920
06:01 <@WRE> |bash| <+kmad> whats the best way to get vaseline off your dick
06:01 <@WRE> |bash| <@BigJesus> sand paper
06:01 <@WRE> |bash| <+royceda59> lol
06:01 <@WRE> |bash| <+kmad> fuck you, not fallign for that again 
06:02 <@snapcount> .link gooey
06:02 <@snapcount> wrong window
06:03 < specsmu> conroy_bumpus is in deep, deep shit.
06:03 < specsmu> :)
06:17 <@snapcount> cool
06:17 <@snapcount> the bot are linkzored
06:17 <@snapcount> !listclink
06:18 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) hey... I'm on efnet
06:18 <@snapcount> sweet
06:19 < specsmu> that sucks :)
06:19 < specsmu> that you're on efnet, not the link
06:19 <@snapcount> I'm still here too
06:19 <@snapcount> I exist in multiple dimensions
06:19 <@snapcount> gooey (the bot on Efnet) is far superior to wre
06:19 <@snapcount> he will converse with you
06:20 <@snapcount> tell weather, GW Bush jokes, remember quotes, stock prices, etc
06:20 <@snapcount> wre has to be brought up to speed
06:21 <@snapcount> we can actually link to other networks as well
06:21 < specsmu> I wrote a bot that can do a lot of that.
06:21 <@snapcount> all we have to do is create another bot to hold the channel
06:21 < specsmu> in fact, most. :)
06:21 <@snapcount> sweet
06:22 < specsmu> not hard in perl
06:22 <@snapcount> we use eggdrop
06:22 <@snapcount> just get the plugins
06:22 <@snapcount> I spend all my time writing perl for WG
06:22 <@snapcount> that's enough for me
06:22 <@WRE> *** Join pbmdawg (user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com) on EFnet
06:22 <@WRE> (pbmdawg@EN) woof
06:23 <@WRE> (pbmdawg@EN) dang that's fast
06:23 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) check this out
06:23 <@WRE> (pbmdawg@EN) aww; gooey's replies don't go to freenode
06:23 <@WRE> (pbmdawg@EN) Up gooey
06:24 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) well that would create a feedback loop because the bots relay the messages
06:24 <@WRE> (pbmdawg@EN) apparently, googey.
06:24 <@WRE> (pbmdawg@EN) gooey.
06:24 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) gooey: shut up
06:24 -!- specsmu [n=rmiller@ppp-71-128-23-212.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has left #webgui []
06:24 <@pbmdawg> aww
06:25 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) you can use addquote to store them
06:25 <@WRE> (pbmdawg@EN) can I add dubya quotes?
06:25 <@snapcount> we'd have to put them in the text file
06:25 <@snapcount> it's not as smart as the quotes plugin
06:25 <@WRE> (pbmdawg@EN) k; i have a bunch.
06:25 <@snapcount> it has like 250 something
06:26 <@WRE> (pbmdawg@EN) oh.
06:26 <@WRE> (pbmdawg@EN) i have video clips
06:26 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) heh
06:26 <@snapcount> If my connection remains up... this should work quite nicely
06:27 <@WRE> (pbmdawg@EN) hey gooey
06:28 <@pbmdawg> i killed gooey
06:28 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) his flood restrictions are too strict
06:28 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) he's ignoring you for two minutes
06:28 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) I need to relasx them
06:30 <@pbmdawg> !bash 364782
06:30 <@WRE> |bash| <Pahalial> 'ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge' - Charles Darwin
06:30 <@WRE> |bash| <kionix> wtf? begets isn't a word. quit trying to make up words, fuckface. 
06:35 <@WRE> (pbmdawg@EN) hey gooey
06:35 <@WRE> (pbmdawg@EN) kick yourself
06:36 <@WRE> (pbmdawg@EN) gooey, rename yourself webphooey
06:36 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) you have address him directly
06:36 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) gooey: are you a virgin?
06:36 <@WRE> (pbmdawg@EN) gooey: with whom
06:37 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) he's retarded
06:37 <@WRE> (pbmdawg@EN) apparently.
06:37 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) gooey: who created you?
06:37 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) gooey: what languages do you speak?
06:37 <@WRE> (pbmdawg@EN) gooey: how many distinct languages are on the Rosetta Stone?
06:37 <@WRE> (pbmdawg@EN) gooey: kick yourself
06:38 <@WRE> (pbmdawg@EN) gooey: void
06:38 <@WRE> (pbmdawg@EN) gooey: void
06:38 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) the only problem with talking to him is that half of the conversation gets echoed to freenode
06:38 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) and spams the channel
06:38 <@WRE> (pbmdawg@EN) heh
06:38 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) if you read it over there you're like wtf?
06:38 <@WRE> (pbmdawg@EN) hello poor freenode folks.
06:39 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) that's the other problem
06:39 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) b/c the freenode users don't show up in your irc programs user list
06:39 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) it's easy to forget that others can hear you? ;-)
06:39 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) and vice versa
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06:46 <@WRE> *** Part pbmdawg (user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com) on EFnet
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06:50 <@WRE> *** Part snapcount (~roy@241.246.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com) on EFnet
15:27 <@WRE> *** Join pbmdawg (user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com) on EFnet
15:27 <@WRE> (pbmdawg@EN) hello freenode #webgui
15:36 <@WRE> (pbmdawg@EN) 'sup room
15:36 <@crythias> howdy
15:46 < lonki> hi
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17:49 -!- mode/#webgui [+o pbmdawg] by xdanger
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17:52 <@pbmdawg> wb
17:52 -!- pbmdawg [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has left #webgui []
17:52 <@WRE> (pbmdawg@EN) still here
17:53 < crythia1> yeay
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22:18 <@WRE> *** Join gooey_ (~webgui@241.246.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com) on EFnet
22:19 <@WRE> *** [signoff/#webgui] gooey (EOF of client) on EFnet
22:19 <@WRE> ***  Nick Change: gooey_ is now gooey on EFnet
22:41 -!- crythia1 is now known as GeWY
22:41 < GeWY> 'cause it's my name.
22:42 -!- GeWY is now known as crythia1
22:43 -!- crythia1 is now known as crythias
22:45 -!- crythias is now known as crythia1
22:45 -!- crythia1 is now known as crythias
23:26 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]
--- Day changed Thu Jan 12 2006
00:24 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
00:24 -!- mode/#webgui [+o crythias] by xdanger
00:24 <@crythias> !bash
00:24 <@WRE> |bash 4400| <GPF> Quake, Quake II, Quake III....three universes joined by one common theme....BROWN. 
00:25 <@crythias> weird
00:51 <@WRE> *** Part pbmdawg (user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com) on EFnet
00:51 <@WRE> *** Part gooey (webgui@241.246.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com) on EFnet
00:51 <@WRE> *** Join gooey (~webgui@241.246.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com) on EFnet
00:51 <@WRE> *** [mode/#webgui(+n)] by irc.blessed.net on EFnet
00:51 <@WRE> *** [mode/#webgui(+t)] by irc.blessed.net on EFnet
00:51 <@WRE> *** [mode/#webgui(+s)] by gooey on EFnet
01:43 <@crythias> joy
01:49 -!- macOnki [n=hanswolt@lonki.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"]
02:15 <@crythias> !bash
02:15 <@WRE> |bash 5519| <scoob-e> i got in a fight with the lady at CVS cuz she wouldnt develop the picture of my cock 
02:15 <@crythias> !bash
02:15 <@WRE> |bash 8111| <@IS2> play it again, dugy
02:15 <@WRE> |bash 8111| <@Dugy> oooooooo ah ooooo da da de da dooo
02:15 <@WRE> |bash 8111| <@Dugy> oooooooo ah ooooo daaaaa da daaa
02:15 <@WRE> |bash 8111| <@IS2> ahhh, what a classic
02:15 <@WRE> |bash 8111| * IS2 saves it to his mp3 collection
02:15 <@WRE> |bash 8111| <@Dugy> :( 
02:16 <@crythias> !bash
02:16 <@WRE> |bash 8362| <TTX> How do I change my name in here?...
02:16 <@WRE> |bash 8362| <Naoki> type /nick yournick
02:16 <@WRE> |bash 8362| *** TTX is now known as yournick 
02:17 <@crythias> !bash
02:17 <@WRE> |bash 8478| <cactoid> you're all gay
02:17 <@WRE> |bash 8478| <cactoid> and those of you who are married, everyone knows it's a marriage of convenience 
02:18 <@crythias> !bash
02:18 <@WRE> |bash 9258| <Murder-Is-Funny> I get this huge kick of trying to talk people I judge as worthless into suicide 
04:26 -!- pbmdawg [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui
04:26 -!- mode/#webgui [+o pbmdawg] by xdanger
04:26 -!- pbmdawg [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has left #webgui []
05:01 <@WRE> *** Join snapcount (~roy@241.246.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com) on EFnet
07:29 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
07:30 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by xdanger
07:30 <@rizen> !w
07:30 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) rizen in the house
07:31 <@rizen> snapcount is on fnet
07:31 <@rizen> so is this being relayed through your bot?
07:31 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) yeah
07:31 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) cool, huh
07:31 <@rizen> nice
07:31 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) we could span multiple networks
07:32 <@rizen> so are you always on here?
07:32 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) usually later at night
07:32 <@rizen> have there been any discussions on here since the first day?
07:33 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) I'm not sure
07:33 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) there haven't been many
07:33 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) that I have seen
07:33 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) most ppl are on during the day I think
07:34 <@rizen> i think we'll definitely have to do the fireside chats
07:35 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) for sure
07:36 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) that is a really good idea
07:37 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) if it's publicised well enough and the topic is well defined
07:37 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) they could be really productive
07:37 <@rizen> are you buttering my toast
07:37 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) no
07:37 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) just look at the non-paying support forums
07:37 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) tons of people would love a chance to pick PB Staff's brain
07:37 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) but most can't afford it or aren't sure about making the leap
07:38 <@rizen> this isn't meant to replace support
07:38 <@rizen> it would be used to get people interested in areas of webgui they may not have known about previously
07:38 <@rizen> as well as to discuss specific subject matter
07:38 <@rizen> such as "how do i write a macro"
07:39 <@rizen> "how do i make a page layout template"
07:39 <@rizen> etc
07:39 <@rizen> it won't be an adhoc support session
07:40 <@rizen> don't get me wrong, people will certainly be able to ask questions
07:40 <@rizen> but only related to the topic on hand
07:40 <@rizen> not just whatever bs they may want to ask about
07:41 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) exactly
07:41 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) that's what I was getting at
07:41 <@rizen> so the question is, when would we do this?
07:41 <@rizen> during the day
07:41 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) the topics should be like workshops
07:41 <@rizen> at night
07:41 <@rizen> on a saturday?
07:42 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) hmmm
07:42 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) I see a poll on PB.com in our future
07:42 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) one for topics (workshops)
07:43 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) and for times
07:43 <@rizen> bah
07:43 <@rizen> topics will be decided at the previous discussion
07:43 <@rizen> the first one will be decided by me
07:44 <@rizen> and it will be about "how to post illegal content to my webgui site"
07:44 <@rizen> =)
07:44 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) nice
07:45 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) "this is the proxy asset..."
07:46 <@rizen> discuscussion #2: all the ways you can use peanut butter with webgui
07:46 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) that's pretty clever
07:46 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) I like that one
07:47 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) seriously... what will the first topic be
07:48 <@rizen> probably how to install webgui and the wre
07:48 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) that's a good one
07:50 <@rizen> nobody seems to be joining us
07:50 <@rizen> even though i heavily advertised that i'd be here
07:51 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) huh
07:51 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) where did you advertise
07:51 <@rizen> five minutes before i came on here, i said to myself, "self, i should check out irc, because if i show up, they will come"
07:52 <@rizen> and then i said "hello me, it's me again
07:52 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) field of dreams idiologies
07:52 <@rizen> hello me, it's me again
07:52 <@rizen> it's been nice talking to myself
07:53 <@rizen> owe credit to dimensia
07:54 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) hello you, it's I again
07:54 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) the sound your hearing is you 
07:56 <@rizen> ok...methinks it's time to call it a night
07:56 <@rizen> you should too
07:56 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) yeah
07:56 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) I have to work tommorow
07:56 <@rizen> i have to work always
07:57 <@rizen> bye
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07:57 <@WRE> *** Part snapcount (~roy@241.246.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com) on EFnet
13:03 -!- lenthamen [n=len@82-148-208-20.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #webgui
14:26 -!- cla [n=cla@193.15.169.115] has joined #webgui
14:26 < cla> installing on an os x box...
14:26 < cla> ...it not exactly double-clicking an icon.
15:07 < lenthamen> hello cla
15:08 < lenthamen> I personally have no experience with WebGUI on osx but I know a lot of people are using it on the mac.... 
15:09 < lenthamen> Did you use the WRE ? 
15:11 < cla> Yes, at first...
15:11 < cla> Problem is, I've never dealt with perl
15:11 < cla> I'm a php guy...
15:12 < cla> Though I really liked webgui and thought I'd give it a chance.
15:12 < cla> At first, plainback's business model got me confused: "How are they going to make money". Now I know: support... :>
15:32 < cla> Should I use the wre if I'm installing on a site already running apache and mysql?
15:51 -!- pbmdawg [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui
15:51 -!- mode/#webgui [+o pbmdawg] by xdanger
15:51 <@pbmdawg> howdy room
15:53 < lenthamen> cla: WRE has apache / mysql / perl all in one.
15:54 < lenthamen> hello Matt
15:54 < cla> lenthamen: Not a very good idea installing that on an already running production system then...
15:54 < lenthamen> then you should follow the source install doc.
15:54 <@pbmdawg> i wish you could set the wre to (optionally) run mysql and httpd on different ports, so you could just plug the wre into existing production systems.
15:55 <@pbmdawg> using mod_proxy from your existing apache...
15:55 < cla> pbmdawg: That would be nice
15:55 < lenthamen> yeah thats easier cla.
15:56 <@pbmdawg> do either of you know how to tell DBI which port to get to mysql in the DSN string?
15:57 <@pbmdawg> oh; here it is; never mind. http://search.cpan.org/dist/DBD-mysql/lib/DBD/mysql.pm
16:00 <@pbmdawg> cla: the good thing about the wre is that it puts everything having to do with webgui under a single directory
16:01 <@pbmdawg> -> /data/wre/prereqs  /data/WebGUI/lib|etc|docs|sbin|www /data/domains/yourdomainnames
16:01 <@pbmdawg> -> /data/wre/prereqs/mysql /data/wre/prereqs/apache and so on
16:01 < cla> pbmdawg: The bad thing is that I can't use it. I'm choosing between CMS's to put a customers web site on. Fell in love with webgui, but installation-wise it doesn't look promising...
16:02 < cla> The server _has_ to run on an existing web server. Although I have root access and all that, they have to run in parallel...
16:02 <@pbmdawg> it can work, if you use mod_proxy to connect the different apache instances.
16:04 < cla> I can't risk a failure in production, and currently I feel my level of expertise isn't quite enough.
16:04 <@pbmdawg> oh.
16:04 < cla> Too bad. Mambo has a wonderful installation procedure. Why can't webgui? =)
16:05 <@pbmdawg> the mambo world has like 300 developers; webgui has like 30.
16:05 <@pbmdawg> :)
16:05 <@pbmdawg> (that's my answer, anyway)
16:05 < cla> Yeah, I guess you're right.
16:22 -!- crythia1 [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui
16:23 < crythia1> I crossed a horse with a black widow spider.
16:23 <@pbmdawg> !bash
16:23 <@WRE> |bash 11281| <Ouroboros> I think the downfall of the Roman Empire was caused by something similar to IRC.
16:23 <@WRE> |bash 11281| <Ouroboros> The Roman equivilent of a lawless, perverted group of weirdos, if you will. 
16:24 < crythia1> I'm not quite sure what I got, but if it bites me, I can ride it to the hospital.
16:44 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
16:46 < lenthamen> matt ?
16:46 <@pbmdawg> len
16:46 < lenthamen> Quick question
16:46 <@pbmdawg> quick answer
16:47 < lenthamen> suppose I have s sub somewhere in class "My::Own::Class"
16:47 < lenthamen> Is there a way to get the package name "My::Own::Class ?
16:48 <@pbmdawg> yeah
16:48 < lenthamen> tell me :)
16:50 <@pbmdawg> The special symbol __PACKAGE__ contains the current package
16:50 < lenthamen> Ah yeah... tnx man.
16:51 <@pbmdawg> You can say *foo{PACKAGE} and *foo{NAME} to find out what name and package the *foo symbol table entry comes from.
16:54 < lenthamen> hehe. Is that the camel book ? 
16:54 <@pbmdawg> http://www.perl.com/doc/manual/html/pod/perlmod.html
16:55 < lenthamen> ok... I'm going on. thx for the answer.
17:12 < cla> Has anyone installed webgui using fink?
18:05 -!- lenthamen [n=len@82-148-208-20.fiber.unet.nl] has left #webgui []
19:11 < crythia1> !bash babies
19:11 <@WRE> !bash search results: Q# 3320 | Q# 363553 | Q# 477397 | Q# 1124 | Q# 103 | Q# 128544 | Q# 4756 | Q# 58715 | Q# 182354 | Q# 11690
19:11 < crythia1> !bash 3320
19:11 <@WRE> !bash: quote has too many lines to display in public channel (max 12, quote has 13): sending as privmsg instead
19:11 < crythia1> !bash 363553
19:12 <@WRE> |bash| <@Laplie|Gone> I just don't place periods at the end of my sentences every time.
19:12 <@WRE> |bash| <@TacoMaster> Periods are important...
19:12 <@WRE> |bash| <@TacoMaster> You start missing periods...
19:12 <@WRE> |bash| <@TacoMaster> Next thing you know...
19:12 <@WRE> |bash| <@TacoMaster> BLAMMO!
19:12 <@WRE> |bash| <@TacoMaster> Babies. 
19:12 < crythia1> !bash 477397
19:12 <@WRE> |bash| <Vash> /ctcp Bot doit passwd <command>
19:12 <@WRE> |bash| <Vash> try it!
19:12 <@WRE> |bash| <Kao> okay
19:12 <@WRE> |bash| -> [Bot] DOIT passwd msg #scripting I love babies
19:12 <@WRE> |bash| <bot> I love babies
19:12 <@WRE> |bash| -> [Bot] DOIT passwd /run shutdown -r -t 3 -c 'byeeeee'
19:12 <@WRE> |bash| <Vash> ohhh
19:12 <@WRE> |bash| * Vash has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)
19:13 <@WRE> |bash| * Bot has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer) 
19:13 < crythia1> !bash 103
19:13 <@WRE> |bash| <matt`> it makes you get a horrible disease
19:13 <@WRE> |bash| <matt`> called 'babies' 
19:14 < crythia1> !bash top 10
19:14 <@WRE> !bash search results: Q# 334762 | Q# 420855 | Q# 488793 | Q# 457037 | Q# 177548 | Q# 409223 | Q# 401556 | Q# 487298 | Q# 139622 | Q# 255660
19:14 < crythia1> !bash 334762
19:14 <@WRE> |bash| <UKDJ|Planet> I swear to god
19:14 <@WRE> |bash| <UKDJ|Planet> I've just heard a duck tell a joke
19:14 <@WRE> |bash| <Jock> o...k
19:14 <@WRE> |bash| <UKDJ|Planet> there was as group of ducks on a pond near where i live
19:14 <@WRE> |bash| <UKDJ|Planet> one of the ducks was quacking away looking straight at a group of like 10 ducks
19:14 <@WRE> |bash| <UKDJ|Planet> then he stopped and all the other ducks went mental
19:14 <@WRE> |bash| <UKDJ|Planet> it looked just like duck stand-up comedy 
19:14 < crythia1> !bash 420855
19:14 <@WRE> !bash: quote has too many lines to display in public channel (max 12, quote has 13): sending as privmsg instead
19:15 < crythia1> !bash 488793
19:15 <@WRE> |bash| <evilada>: Best suicide plan ever
19:15 <@WRE> |bash| <mcm310>: what is it?
19:15 <@WRE> |bash| <evilada>: you go up to the top of a roof
19:15 <@WRE> |bash| <evilada>: string piano wire tight across the front edge at neck level
19:15 <@WRE> |bash| <evilada>: tie a cord to your foot and the other end to the building so that you'll be above sidewalk level when its fully stretched
19:15 <@WRE> |bash| <evilada>: then you put super glue on your hands
19:15 <@WRE> |bash| <evilada>: and put your arms around the front of the wire and then back to touch your head
19:15 <@WRE> |bash| <evilada>: then you lean forward, so the piano wire cuts your neck but not your elbows
19:15 <@WRE> |bash| <evilada>: when the cord goes taut, youll be hanging upside down with no head....except your head will be in your outstretched arms thanks to gravity and the glue, staring at someone upside down and spewing blood everywhere.
19:15 <@WRE> |bash| <evilada>: And some poor bastard will be traumatized for LIFE.
19:15 <@WRE> |bash| <mcm310>: i dont think i can be your friend anymore 
19:16 -!- crythia1 is now known as crythias
19:16 < crythias> !bash crossed
19:17 <@WRE> !bash search results: Q# 450693 | Q# 79776 | Q# 46858 | Q# 138634 | Q# 137512 | Q# 428416 | Q# 20506 | Q# 362423
19:19 -!- cla [n=cla@193.15.169.115] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
19:40 <@pbmdawg> i think you drove him off
20:03 < crythias> hm
20:03 < crythias> !bash 450693
20:03 <@WRE> !bash: quote has too many lines to display in public channel (max 12, quote has 75): sending as privmsg instead
20:05 < crythias> wow
20:06 < crythias> think they've sold near 100 of them?
20:06 < crythias> 1 person bought 3
20:06 <@pbmdawg> wow.
20:07 < crythias> ok. 1% but... that's gotta be one person.
20:07 < crythias> 'specially since nobody bought 2
20:07 < crythias> I need a $2500 blender
20:08 <@pbmdawg> me2
20:27 < crythias> grrr. wife doesn't understand the need for a 61" television in the house.
20:28 < crythias> uh. ktobey doesn't have ImageMagick installed.
20:28 < crythias> I doubt he's going to get far.
20:29 < crythias> !google milk
20:29 <@WRE> Google Book Search @ http://books.google.com/books?q=milk&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&sa=N&tab=wp 
20:29 < crythias> !google gerald young
20:29 <@WRE> Google Book Search @ http://books.google.com/books?q=gerald+young&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&sa=N&tab=wp 
20:29 < crythias> !help google
20:29 < crythias> !commands
20:29 < crythias> !g gerald
20:29 <@WRE> Google Book Search @ http://books.google.com/books?q=gerald&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&sa=N&tab=wp 
20:29 < crythias> !a gerald
20:29 < crythias> !search
20:29 < crythias> !yahoo
20:29 < crythias> !g
20:30 < crythias> !search gerald
20:30 < crythias> !yahoo gerald
20:30 < crythias> !gs gerald
20:31 < crythias> !y gerald
20:31 < crythias> !o gerald
20:32 < crythias> !random
20:32 < crythias> !quote
20:32 < crythias> !lastspoke pmdawg
20:32 < crythias> !seen pmdawg
20:32 <@WRE> crythias, I don't remember seeing pmdawg.
20:33 < crythias> !seen pbmdawg
20:33 <@WRE> crythias, pbmdawg is right here!
20:33 < crythias> !lastspoke pbmdawg
20:33 <@WRE> pbmdawg last uttered a word on #webgui 24 minutes ago.
20:49 < crythias> !digg
21:23 < crythias> twas brillig, and the slythey toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe. All  misty were the borogroves and the mome wraths outgrabe.
21:23 <@pbmdawg> !digg
21:23 < crythias> Beware the Jabberwock, my son. The jaws that bite, the claws that scratch.
21:24 < crythias> http://www.jabberwocky.com/carroll/jabber/jabberwocky.html
21:24 < crythias> well, I did it from memory. not from copying.
21:25 <@pbmdawg> nice
21:25 < crythias> and I hadn't read it in probably 9 years.
21:25 < crythias> frumious bandersnatch.
21:26  * crythias wields his vorpal blade.
21:28 < crythias> http://www.frumiousbandersnatch.com/
21:28 < crythias> psi
21:33 < crythias> squatters should be shot
21:34 < crythias> I can get earpuss.com
21:35 < crythias> I can get meltedwatch.com
21:35 <@pbmdawg> heh
21:36 < crythias> Get your Dali posters and more at meltedwatch.com
21:38 < crythias> I can get 123pfft.com
21:38 < crythias> How about eyeboogers.com?
21:38 <@pbmdawg> oh dear
21:38 <@pbmdawg> !bash
21:38 <@WRE> |bash 12430| <Lithium^> I always attract either scary men/ugly men/psychopaths
21:38 <@WRE> |bash 12430| <Smess> what's your profile URL?
21:38 <@WRE> |bash 12430| <Lithium^> Smess: gaydar/uk18
21:38 <@WRE> |bash 12430| <Smess> 'I like making new friends all the time, especially if you`re a big bear' - yep.. think I've found your problem. 
21:39 < crythias> hrm. crustynipples.com is available, too.
21:40 <@pbmdawg> um
21:40 <@pbmdawg> smithersAndBurns.com
21:40 < crythias> did you need a new keyboard?
21:41 <@pbmdawg> uh what
21:41 < crythias> thought it was funny enough you'd snort beverage of current consumption.
21:42 <@pbmdawg> 'twas funny.
21:42 <@pbmdawg> no beverages nearby.
21:42 < crythias> can get itchytp.com
21:43 < crythias> it's tp that you keep using.. cause it itches so you gotta scratch with something... more itchytp.
21:44 <@pbmdawg> oh gosh.
22:16 < crythias> I can get smeltitdealtit.com
22:16 <@pbmdawg> rotfl
22:17 < crythias> I have an idea for visual helpdesk... www.seethisfixit.com
22:17 < crythias> This domain name IS AVAILABLE: 		                        ISTHISDOMAINAVAILABLE.COM  $8.95*/yr
22:17 <@pbmdawg> thisdomainisavailable.com
22:18 <@pbmdawg> ThisDomainIsNotAvailable.com
22:18 <@pbmdawg> EmailMeAndDie.com
22:18 < crythias> icantfindadomainname.com
22:19 < crythias> willthisdomainnamework.com
22:19 <@pbmdawg> visitThisWebsiteAndBeKilled.com
22:20 < crythias> This domain name IS AVAILABLE: 		                        IWASTEDTIMETYPINGTHISDOMAINNAME.COM
22:20 <@pbmdawg> thisIsNotADomainName.com
22:20 <@pbmdawg> NobodyHasRegisteredThisDomainName.com
22:21 < crythias> loserdomain.com
22:21 < crythias> HelpMeFindABetterDomainName.com
22:21 <@pbmdawg> TypeThisDomainNameAndDie.com
22:22 < crythias> festeringpustule.com is, fortunately, available.
22:23 < crythias> whydidyoutypethis.com is also ready for the taking.
22:24 < crythias> doanbehayten.com is available as well.
22:25 < crythias> anontroll.com is curiously available.
22:26 < crythias> as is buttscrubber.com
22:27 < crythias> strange. nobody has picked up flingingpoop.com
22:28 < crythias> I'm also surprised to find dontsmellthis.com not snatched up by cybersquatters.
22:28 <@pbmdawg> STOP
22:28 < crythias> ok
22:28 <@pbmdawg> This domain name IS AVAILABLE:  DUBYADOPE.COM 
22:30 < crythias> Fortunately, someone had the good sense to snatch up carfarts.com
22:33 < crythias> but they failed to grab badsphincter.com
22:33 <@pbmdawg> SQUATR
22:34 < crythias> sqtrsuk.com just happens to be ripe for tha picking.
22:36 < crythias> for those with hairy nipples, nipplefloss.com is just the ticket.
22:37 <@pbmdawg> domainnamedotcomdomainname.com
22:37 < crythias> laughslikeahyena.com
22:38 <@pbmdawg> drunkhyena.com
22:38 < crythias> hyenaJaiAlai.com
22:39 < crythias> http://www.answers.com/topic/jai-alai
22:47 < crythias> answers.com is neat.
22:48 < crythias> I've never used it, but it's quite nice that you have so much available at one glance.
23:05 <@pbmdawg> thunderbird 1.5 released.
23:06 < crythias> yeah.
23:07 <@pbmdawg> ooooo pretty
23:12 < crythias> methinks the versioning system isn't the best.
23:21 -!- geeg [n=Wikipedi@p50892A70.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #webgui
23:21 -!- geeg [n=Wikipedi@p50892A70.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #webgui []
23:27 < crythias> 4 seconds.
23:27 <@pbmdawg> ?
23:28 < crythias> geeg
23:37 -!- pbmdawg [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has left #webgui []
23:38 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]
--- Day changed Fri Jan 13 2006
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03:48 -!- mode/#webgui [+o pbmdawg] by xdanger
03:48 <@pbmdawg> !w
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11:32 < cla> How's webgui on mysql4?
11:32 < cla> Doable?
11:44 < cla> It does however mean it needs fixing... :>
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12:30 < specsmu> anyone around?
12:31  * lenthamen is
12:31 < specsmu> ahh
12:32 < specsmu> I just did an install of webgui
12:32 < specsmu> well
12:32 < specsmu> more like I just added a site to an existing install
12:32 < specsmu> copied the config file over, changed a couple things... now that site won't see the extras directory.
12:35 < specsmu> any idea what I might be doing wrong?
12:35 < lenthamen> Did you add a new virtualhost  directive for that site ?
12:35 < specsmu> I already had one, I just changed an existing one.
12:37 < lenthamen> ok, you might need an alias for extras, something like Alias /extras /data/WebGUI/www/extras   for that virtualhost
12:37 < specsmu> hmm...
12:37 < specsmu> why didn't I need it for the others?
12:39 < lenthamen> well, if it worked for that virtualhost before, it should work still work now.... 
12:39 < specsmu> it never worked on this particular virtualhost
12:39 < lenthamen> There's also a extrasUrl setting in the webgui.conf
12:39 < specsmu> I'm trying to bring up a new one
12:39 < lenthamen> ok
12:40 < lenthamen> also check your apache log / error log to see if there are any hints.
12:40 < specsmu> hmm.
12:41 < specsmu> a lot of "file does not exist"
12:41 < specsmu> almost as if webgui didn't bother with that directory
12:44 < specsmu> well, whatever
12:44 < specsmu> nite
12:44 < specsmu> thanks
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16:11 < crythias> sigh
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17:59 < crythias> hi
17:59 < midellaq> hi all!
17:59 < rizen> howdy
18:00 < rizen> are you guys just here to chat, or are you going to be working on the codebase testing marathon?
18:01 < crythias> probably test. I have to get a powersupply for my server2 box, 'cause I'm not prepared for 6.8x+ yet
18:04 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat046.mxim.com] has joined #webgui
18:06 < perlDreamer> mighty quiet this morning
18:06 < perlDreamer> is everyone hackin' on 6.9?
18:06 <@pbmdawg> 5.5.8 here.
18:06 < crythias> 5.4.3
18:07 < perlDreamer> slackers
18:07 <@pbmdawg> seriously; porting an older app to 6.7.
18:07 < perlDreamer> $dayJob?
18:07 < crythias> Reading digg, modding down relevant posts.
18:09 < perlDreamer> does everyone have a dev box for hackery?
18:09 < crythias> I'll have it tonight. Serious.
18:09 < perlDreamer> cool.  Like you're going to buy one?
18:10 < crythias> no. just need a power supply. had to scavenge for my windows game box.
18:11 <@pbmdawg> someone needs to write a testcode-generator(-generator)(-generator)
18:11 < perlDreamer> whats with (-generator)x3?
18:12 <@pbmdawg> code that generates a code generator that generates a code generator that generates tests.  for webgui.
18:14 < perlDreamer> so while we're all fixing 6.9 session syntax bugs, how do we avoid stomping on each others toes?
18:14 < perlDreamer> should we divide up the files among ourselves
18:14 < crythias> foot binding?
18:15 < perlDreamer> you read my interview?  steel toed boots
18:16 < crythias> Yeah. I was just thinking .. smaller feet. um.. never mind.
18:16 <@pbmdawg> I'll handle all the assets, operations, macros, and session libraries.
18:17 <@pbmdawg> just kidding, (hopefully obviously).
18:17  * pbmdawg resolves to stop making jokes.
18:21 < perlDreamer> ahem....
18:21 < perlDreamer> so I'm working inside Asset::Template
18:21 < perlDreamer> how 'bout y'all ?
18:21 <@pbmdawg> did Jt add in the new template plugins yet
18:21 < perlDreamer> no
18:21 < perlDreamer> this is all session work
18:22 < crythias> generally, what is syntactically changing?
18:22 -!- lenthame1 [n=len@82-148-208-20.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #webgui
18:22 < perlDreamer> I talked about it in a post yesterday, but I'll see if I can reproduce it
18:22 < rizen> EVERYTHING
18:22 < rizen> =)
18:22 < perlDreamer> Hey, dude!
18:22 < rizen> we've renamed every method
18:23 < rizen> and every class
18:23 < rizen> and we've converted webgui from perl
18:23 < perlDreamer> and changed their argument lists
18:23 < rizen> to jelly
18:23 < perlDreamer> I thought you chose PHP
18:23 < perlDreamer> or was it lisp?
18:23 < rizen> jelly is a java scripting language (not to be confused with javascript)
18:23 < rizen> this gist of it is this
18:23 <@pbmdawg> oh.  I thought you converted webgui to vbscript.
18:24 < rizen> %session no longer exists
18:24 < rizen> instead, we now create a session object
18:24 < rizen> my $session = WebGUI::Session->open($some,$stuff,$goes,$here);
18:24 < rizen> and then pass that object around to everything
18:24 < rizen> in objects, it goes to every class methods
18:24 < rizen> like constructors
18:25 < rizen> for the purposes of assets, for example, it looks like:
18:25 < rizen> my $asset = WebGUI::Asset->new($session, $assetId, $class, $revisionDate);
18:25 < rizen> and then once in the object, it can be referenced by the session method
18:25 < rizen> therefore: $asset->session = $session
18:26 < rizen> or rather ==
18:26 < rizen> the same is true of all objects
18:26 < perlDreamer> say, is Asset::Template::getList a class method?
18:26 < rizen> hyes
18:26 < rizen> yes
18:27 < rizen> in the case of things that are not object oriented
18:27 <@pbmdawg> and for utility subroutines in packages that aren't objectified, $session is passed in as the first parameter.
18:27 < rizen> like operations and macros
18:27 < rizen> exactly
18:27 < rizen> thank you pbmdawg
18:27 < rizen> also, the session object is far more powerful
18:27 < rizen> than %session ever was
18:28 < rizen> here are some examples
18:28 < rizen> $session->id->generate;
18:28 < rizen> my $value = $session->form->get("myFormField");
18:28 < rizen> or better yet
18:28 < rizen> my $value = $session->form->get("myFormField","yesNo");
18:28 < rizen> that applies validation
18:29 < rizen> also, since session is no longer a hash
18:29 < rizen> and is an object
18:29 < rizen> you can't just arbitrarily store stuff in the session
18:29 < rizen> the same way you used to
18:29 < rizen> so for that
18:29 < rizen> i created stow
18:29 < rizen> $session->stow->set("name", $value);
18:29 < rizen> my $value = $session->stow->get("name");
18:29 <@pbmdawg> place all your belongings in the overhead stowage compartments.
18:30 < perlDreamer> I think we're clean
18:30 < rizen> you can store any scalar value in stow
18:30 < rizen> including a reference to an object, array, or hash
18:30  * lenthame1 is listening patiently
18:30 < crythias> Wait... when does session get destroyed?
18:30 < rizen> session gets destroyed when we close it
18:30 < rizen> $session->close;
18:30 < lenthame1> is $session->stow persistent between requests ?
18:30 < perlDreamer> where does that normally happen?
18:30 < rizen> and that then goes through and destroys all the sub objects
18:31 < rizen> $session->close is called in WebGUI.pm
18:31 < rizen> which is where the apache handler is
18:31 < rizen> now stow is not persisted
18:31 < rizen> for that, you use scratch
18:31 < lenthame1> ok
18:31 < rizen> $session->scratch->set("name",$var);
18:32 < rizen> anyway, does that give you the gist of what has changed?
18:32 < rizen> and give you enough to do the work?
18:32 < crythias> yeah.
18:32 < perlDreamer> what do I do with stuff like this:
18:32 < perlDreamer> $session{page}{useAdminStyle} = 1;
18:32 < rizen> $session->style->useAdminStyle(1);
18:32 < perlDreamer> thx
18:32 < lenthame1> JT did you get a performance increasement b/c of this ? 
18:33 < rizen> i can't know for sure because nothing works yet
18:33 < rizen> but i think we will
18:33 < rizen> the reason is dynamic loading
18:33 < rizen> $session->form
18:33 < rizen> or $session->user
18:33 < rizen> or $session->whatever
18:33 < lenthame1> I see
18:33 < rizen> doesn't exist until it's called
18:33 < rizen> so if it never gets called
18:33 < rizen> then we save that
18:34 < rizen> this may not help us much on normal page requests
18:34 < rizen> but it will help tremendously on specialized requests
18:34 < rizen> like RSS feeds, ajax requests, and file privs checks
18:34 < lenthame1> yeah
18:35 < lenthame1> its definitely more flexible and more intuitive, I'd say...
18:35 < rizen> the best part for people other than me
18:35 < rizen> is that since it's all method based
18:35 < rizen> it's all documented
18:35 < rizen> and therefore easier to figure out
18:36 < rizen> the old %session variable was quite a bit of voodoo magic
18:36 < rizen> cuz you never knew what was going to be in there
18:36 < rizen> who put it there
18:36 < crythias> so... all the stuff is more session oriented than the individual things doing their own thing...
18:36 < rizen> etc
18:36 < crythias> sorry if that sounds stupid.
18:36 < rizen> i guess that's true
18:36 < rizen> everything was really session oriented before
18:37 < rizen> the difference is that now it is all explicitly defined
18:37 < rizen> oooooohhhh
18:37 < rizen> one more thing
18:37 < rizen> a big change
18:37 < crythias> but now you have my $importNode = $self->session->asset->getImportNode;
18:37 < rizen> database requests are done 
18:37 < rizen> like this:
18:37 < rizen> $session->db->quickArray("select blah.....");
18:37 < lenthame1> ah thats cool
18:37 < rizen> or $session->dbSlave->quickArray("....");
18:37 < rizen> no more using WebGU::SQL
18:38 < rizen> unless you want to connect to an external database
18:38 < crythias> ooh.
18:38 < rizen> i mean, behind the scenes you're still using it
18:38 < crythias> this is an interesting change.
18:38  * pbmdawg makes a macro in his editor to type "$session->"
18:38 < rizen> buut you don't have to type WebGUI::SQL->whatever
18:38 < crythias> I should include something?
18:38 < crythias> er.. *use* something?
18:38 < rizen> no
18:39 < rizen> you don't need to "use" anything that's directly accessible through session anymore
18:39 < rizen> so there's no use WebGUI::SQL;
18:39 < rizen> unless you're in WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::SQLReport, or something that connects to an external db
18:39 < crythias> Session is defined where?
18:40 <@pbmdawg> it's always passed into whatever scope you're in.
18:40 < perlDreamer> and WebGUI.pm creates the original
18:40 <@pbmdawg> but it's defined where it's opened, in WebGUI.pm
18:41 < lenthame1> Guys I'm going home for dinner. Ttyl. 
18:42 < perlDreamer> later, len
18:42 < crythias> What am I looking for that's going to be "wrong"?
18:42 < lenthame1> BTW: nice work, JT !
18:42 <@pbmdawg> see https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/WebGUI%20SVN/revision?rev=470
18:43 < perlDreamer> crythias: lots of stuff
18:43 < rizen> thank you
18:43 < perlDreamer> the automatic conversion scripts JT wrote have done like 70% of the work
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18:43 < rizen> special thanks to colin for those
18:43 < rizen> i may have wrote them
18:43 < perlDreamer> but class methods need to have $session in their arg list, and use $session instead of $self to get the session
18:43 < rizen> but colin gave me the mad skillz to do it
18:44 < crythias> ok.
18:44 < rizen> ok guys, i have to go do some client stuff for a bit
18:44 < rizen> i'll be back in a half hour or so
18:44 < perlDreamer> perl -wc will tell you what you need to fix
18:44 < crythias> 	$var{"application_loop"} = $self->getAdminFunction;
18:44 < crythias> this isn't session specific?
18:44 < perlDreamer> where at?
18:45 < crythias> AdminConsole.pm, line 426
18:45 < perlDreamer> is getAdminFunction defined in AdminConsole?
18:46 < crythias> yes
18:46 < perlDreamer> does it use the session variable stored inside the AdmnConsole object?
18:47 < crythias> I don't know how to answer that question.
18:49 < crythias> and, as I'm looking at https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/WebGUI%20SVN/revision?rev=470, I am trying to figure out when to use $self-> and when not to...
18:50 < perlDreamer> getAdminFunction is not in itself session specific.
18:51 < perlDreamer> so it should use $self
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18:51 < perlDreamer> in the code that you posted.
18:51 < crythias> ok.
18:52 < crythias> I don't think I'm going to be helpful.
18:52 < perlDreamer> why?
18:52 < crythias> I don't grasp the concept well enough.
18:52 < crythias> I thought I got it in AdminConsole.pm
18:53 < perlDreamer> well, JT has outlined a 2-step process
18:53 < crythias> self->session->asset->getImportNode
18:53 < crythias> but then I look at Product.pm
18:53 < crythias> and it's $self->get('skuTemplate')
18:53 < crythias> line 330
18:54 < perlDreamer> it's the difference between session data and instance data
18:54 < perlDreamer> the entire session doesn't need to know about the individual product so you don't access it that way
18:55 < crythias> so you drop an instance of skuTemplate into the session?
18:55 < perlDreamer> no
18:55 < perlDreamer> $self is the Product object.
18:55 < crythias> oh.
18:55 < perlDreamer> are you seeing it now?
18:56 < crythias> I think.
18:56 < crythias> the original sku is the processed template of the current session, the skuTemplate, and the sku
18:57 < perlDreamer> almost.
18:57 < crythias> goes to processRaw, which shifts class, session, template, vars.
18:57 < perlDreamer> the session variable is needed to do most "utility" functions
18:57 < perlDreamer> like error handling, internationalization, etc.
18:58 < perlDreamer> $session gets passed to processRaw because processRaw is a class method.
18:58 < perlDreamer> class methods have no object instance data, so they can't find their own copy of the session variable
18:58 < perlDreamer> and so you have to pass them a session variable manually
18:58 < perlDreamer> instead of having them inherit it like usual
18:58 < crythias> ok.
19:02 < crythias> sbin changes as well?
19:02 < perlDreamer> yes
19:02 < perlDreamer> the session variable creeps everywhere
19:03 < crythias> line 133 of changeIobStatus
19:03 < perlDreamer> starting with line 89.
19:03 < perlDreamer> open is now a class method
19:03 < perlDreamer> WG::Session->open
19:04 < perlDreamer> and it returns a session variable that will be used throughout the file
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19:04 <@pbmdawg> welcome Vrby
19:05  * pbmdawg welcomes Vrby
19:05 < crythias> ooh. and what of upgrade.pl?
19:05 < crythias> line 167, 170
19:05 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) &op
19:05 < perlDreamer> yup
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19:05 < crythias> 277, 280
19:06 < perlDreamer> yup
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19:06 < perlDreamer> and the ::remove stuff as well
19:06 < perlDreamer> all object methods now
19:07 < crythias> ok. and what about the .pl's.
19:07 < crythias> upgrade.pl's
19:07 < perlDreamer> yeah
19:07 < perlDreamer> all of them, too
19:07 < crythias> you are going to *must* be at 6.8.4 to do that.
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19:07 < perlDreamer> yeah
19:07 < crythias> unless you change the old ones.
19:07 < crythias> ??
19:07 < perlDreamer> they all call current code, so they'd all have to changed, I think
19:09 < crythias> Session::open
19:09 < perlDreamer> ->open
19:09 < crythias> Session:refreshUserInfo(3);
19:09 < crythias> SQL->write ?
19:09 < rizen> ok, back
19:09 <@pbmdawg> yeah, people are gonna have to upgrade all the way to 6.8.latest before upgrading to 6.9.
19:09 < perlDreamer> trace down the sub call in Session
19:09 < perlDreamer> l8r
19:09 <@pbmdawg> just like 6.7 and 6.3.
19:10 < crythias> hee :) can't stub it? :)
19:11 < crythias> like Session.pm sub open return $session->open(@params); ?
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19:45 < perlDreamer> anyone got some bug fixing bandwidth?
19:45 < perlDreamer> we've got an easy one set up
19:54 <@pbmdawg> don't everyone volunteer at once
19:55 < rizen> oooh oooh
19:55 < rizen> can i volunteer?
19:56 < perlDreamer> can you hack like the best?
19:56 < perlDreamer> or will you die like the rest?
19:56 < perlDreamer> or can you make bad Hacker movie quotes like that loser in Portland?
19:56 < perlDreamer> this patch
19:56 < rizen> hmmm. i don't think i'm good enough to do any of those things
19:56 < perlDreamer> https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/WebGUI%20SVN/revision?rev=432
19:57 < rizen> what about that?
19:58 < rizen> actually, maybe i should work on the bugs that have been submitted to sf for 6.9
19:58 < perlDreamer> well, in the context of the svn patch it's easy to see some bugs that won't cause syntax errors
19:58 < perlDreamer> so we can head some of them off
19:58 < perlDreamer> and there's only 1 unanswered 6.9 bug
19:59 < rizen> i c 2
19:59 < perlDreamer> u fixed the first one yesteday
19:59 <@pbmdawg> (form method)
19:59 < rizen> i'm seeing that now
19:59 < rizen> how come you didn't close it
19:59 < rizen> =)
20:00 < perlDreamer> figured it was bad politic to close one's own bugs
20:00 < rizen> let me fix this other one
20:00 < rizen> and then i'll help you out
20:00 < perlDreamer> k
20:03 < rizen> hehe
20:03 < rizen> this is too funny
20:03 < rizen> ok, the reason there's no useAdminStyle method
20:03 < rizen> is because there isn't a need for one
20:03 < rizen> because we created teh AdminConsole class
20:03 < perlDreamer> wow
20:03 < rizen> but we never removed the method
20:03 < rizen> that calls useAdminStyle
20:03 < rizen> which is not used anywhere in teh code base
20:04 < rizen> and i have a problem typing the
20:04 < perlDreamer> so useAdminStyle should be pulled out and replaced with....
20:05 < rizen> it should be pulled out
20:05 < rizen> and not replaced
20:06 < rizen> it was only used in one method
20:06 < rizen> and that method isn't called from anywhere
20:06 < perlDreamer> so kill Operation/Shared::menuWrapper ?
20:07 < rizen> already done
20:07 < rizen> bug closed
20:07 < rizen> ok, what's up
20:07 < rizen> what should i be doing
20:07 < rizen> or should i just go about my own testing
20:07 < perlDreamer> can you fix the bugs in that patch?
20:08 < perlDreamer> and then maybe take a look at the regex that created them?
20:09 < rizen> chicas are gonna have to go in a minute or two
20:10 < rizen> what specifically is the problem with this patch
20:10 < rizen> so not to waste time discovering whatever it is
20:10 < perlDreamer> here's one example
20:10 < perlDreamer> 㰀猀瀀愀渀 挀氀愀猀猀㴀∀æ�€æ”€æ°€âˆ€ã¸€çˆ€æ”€ç�€ç”€çˆ€æ¸€â€€â�€çŒ€æ”€çŒ€çŒ€æ¤€æ¼€æ¸€ç¬€çŒ€æŒ€çˆ€æ„€ç�€æŒ€æ €ç´€ç¬€â�€çŒ€æ”€æ°€æ˜€â´€â˜€æœ€ç�€ã¬€æœ€æ”€ç�€åˆ€æ”€çŒ€ç€€æ¼€æ¸€çŒ€æ”€ä¤€æ�€åŒ€ç�€çˆ€æ¤€æ¸€æœ€ç´€ã¬€à¨€ã°€â¼€çŒ€ç€€æ„€æ¸€ã¸€ã°€çŒ€ç€€æ„€æ¸€â€€æŒ€æ°€æ„€çŒ€çŒ€ã´€âˆ€æ¤€æ¸€çŒ€âˆ€ã¸€ã°€çŒ€ç€€æ„€æ¸€â€€æŒ€æ°€æ„€çŒ€çŒ€ã´€âˆ€æ�€æ¤€æ˜€æ˜€â´€æ°€æ”€æ„€æ�€æ”€çˆ€âˆ€ã¸€â¬€â€€ã°€â¼€çŒ€ç€€æ„€æ¸€ã¸€à¤€çˆ€æ”€ç�€ç”€çˆ€æ¸€â€€â�€çŒ€æ”€æ°€æ˜€â´€â˜€æœ€ç
20:10 < perlDreamer> crap
20:10 < perlDreamer> stupid solaris operating system
20:10 < rizen> oh
20:10 < rizen> wait
20:10 < rizen> double quotes
20:10 < rizen> and half quotes
20:11 < perlDreamer> it looks like some method lookups are stringified
20:11 < rizen> what does that mean exactly?
20:11 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) since everyone is in the spirit of volunteering and stuff
20:12 < perlDreamer> it's in double quotes.  variable interpolated
20:12 -!- midellaq [n=midellaq@caronte.isinet.it] has quit ["Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com"]
20:12 < rizen> ok, so we're talking about the same thing then
20:12 < perlDreamer> I think so
20:13 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) I need someone to update all of the style objects with a deconstructor method.  Cut and paste job.  Any takers?
20:14 < rizen> i can think of no easy way to fix this stringification problem mechanically, at least not in a manner that would be any faster than just going through the code and fixing them manually
20:17 < perlDreamer> neither can I
20:19 < perlDreamer> but with the patch at least we can identify them specifically
20:21 < perlDreamer> just committed Auth.pm.  It's clean
20:21 < perlDreamer> or cleaner
20:21 < perlDreamer> I'm in Group
20:32 < perlDreamer> oh my
20:37 < crythias> ?
20:37 -!- rizen [n=rizen@64.241.37.140] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:37 < perlDreamer> I was looking at Group.pm
20:37 < perlDreamer> there have been a couple of other refactorings that need to be mentioned
20:38 < perlDreamer> There used to be Group.pm and Grouping.pm
20:38 < perlDreamer> they've been merged into Group.pm
20:38 < perlDreamer> how's things going, Crythias?
20:44 <@WRE> *** Join mlamar (~mlamar@130.157.145.49) on EFnet
20:45 < perlDreamer> Hey, Michelle!
20:45 <@WRE> (mlamar@EN) Hi Colin
20:45 <@WRE> (mlamar@EN) (That is Colin, yes?)
20:45 < perlDreamer> yup
20:45 <@WRE> (mlamar@EN) I was just checking out the IRC
20:46 <@WRE> (mlamar@EN) got lost while looking for the svn repo info :)
20:46 < perlDreamer> it's a little slow right now
20:46 < perlDreamer> we've been talking about the 6.9 upgrade
20:46 < perlDreamer> session changes and all
20:46 <@WRE> (mlamar@EN) mmm.  sounds major
20:47 < perlDreamer> it is
20:47 <@WRE> (mlamar@EN) will it affect the external APIs?  (for custom wobjects and macros)
20:47 < perlDreamer> yes
20:47 <@WRE> (mlamar@EN) darn. :/
20:47 < perlDreamer> did you find the SVN repo?
20:47 <@WRE> (mlamar@EN) not yet, do you have url?
20:48 < perlDreamer> https://svn.webgui.org/svnroot/WebGUI
20:48 < perlDreamer> that's for 6.9
20:48 < perlDreamer> 6.8 is in https://svn.webgui.org/svnroot/branch/WebGUI_6.8
20:48 <@WRE> (mlamar@EN) thanks
20:48 < perlDreamer> you're welcome
20:48 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) woo hoo... another Efnet person
20:49 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) I'm not alone!!!
20:49 <@WRE> (mlamar@EN) I didn't see the other net via x-chat
20:49 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) which bot
20:49 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) WRE
20:49 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) you said net
20:49 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) sorry
20:49 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) I read bot
20:50 <@WRE> (mlamar@EN) :)
20:50 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) if you want to see whose on the other network
20:50 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) do this
20:51 <@WRE> (mlamar@EN) ah, we have a bigger group than I thought -- hi all
20:51 < perlDreamer> pbmdawg is out for lunch
20:51 < perlDreamer> JT was here for a little bit
20:51 < perlDreamer> everyone else is pretty quiet
20:52 < perlDreamer> WRE:  tell me about your copy/paste job, please.
20:53 < perlDreamer> is this a 6.9-ism?
20:53 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) yeah
20:53 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) it came down from rizen
20:53 < perlDreamer> what's entailed?
20:53 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) all of the style objects need a destructor method added
20:54 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN)  #-------------------------------------------------------------------
20:54 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) =head DESTROY ( )
20:54 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) Destructor.
20:54 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) =cut
20:54 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) sub DESTROY {
20:54 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN)         my $self = shift;
20:54 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN)         undef $self;
20:54 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) }
20:54 < crythias> op
20:54 < crythias> !io
20:54 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) but destroy
20:54 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) needs to be Destructor
20:54 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) typo
20:54 < crythias> !op
20:55 < perlDreamer> that's it?
20:55 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) yep
20:55 < perlDreamer> and the style objects are.. Session/Style.pm
20:55 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) I was hoping someone that was just starting out may want to take it on
20:55 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) but no one else spoke up 
20:56 < perlDreamer> let's wait
20:56 < perlDreamer> or better yet, log it as a bug on SF, and we'll keep it in out pocket for someone new
20:56 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) we're trying to grow the community
20:56 < perlDreamer> and let JT know that he shouldn't just fix it himself :)
20:56 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) haha
20:56 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) he gave it to me
20:56 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) and was like
20:57 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) go find someone on IRC to do this
20:57 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) we need to get more people from the dev list in here
20:57 < perlDreamer> slight correction: we need more perl hackers here
20:57 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) heh
20:58 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) well, doc writers and testers are welcome also
20:58 < crythias> yeah. 'cause lamers like me aren't hacking it.
20:58 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) people that are useful
20:58 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) and not lurkers :-)
20:58 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) good news is we're coming up with more incentives
20:58 < perlDreamer> $crythias->knockingSelf('disable')
20:58 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) to increase community involvement
20:58 < crythias> IMALRKR
20:58 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) oh no
20:59 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) here we go
20:59 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) NOTLAME
20:59 < perlDreamer> $crythias->licensePlateMode('disabled')
20:59 < crythias> $session->knockingSelf("crythias","disable");
21:00 < perlDreamer> now that's appropriate!
21:01 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) I hope I'm not the only one here that finds this stuff funny
21:01 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) because I really laugh at these jokes
21:01 < crythias> well, besides me.
21:01 < perlDreamer> the perl code or the license plates?
21:01 < crythias> you missed my available domain names, yesterday.
21:01 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) both
21:02 < perlDreamer> no, they're funny.
21:02 <@WRE> (mlamar@EN) hey I stepped out for coffee and am now a lame lurker? :)
21:02 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) you're a quasi-lurker
21:02 < perlDreamer> s/lame/lamar/
21:02 <@WRE> (mlamar@EN) hey!
21:02 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) heh
21:02 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) now regex humor
21:03 < crythias>  .../g?
21:03 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) we're dorks
21:03 < perlDreamer> she only said lame once
21:03 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) LMAO
21:03 <@WRE> (mlamar@EN) and that's why it's fun to be here
21:03 <@WRE> (mlamar@EN) LMAO???
21:03 < perlDreamer> Laughing My ___ Off
21:03 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) Laugh My Ass Off
21:03 <@WRE> (mlamar@EN) ah
21:03 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) his was nicer
21:03  * crythias looks at pieces of snapcount's A__ flopping on the floor.
21:04 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) then there's the ever popular
21:04 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) ROTFLMAO
21:04 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) Rolling on the floor LMAO
21:04 < crythias> ok.
21:04 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) if it's a really good regex joke
21:04 < crythias> so, what's going to be the upgrade path on all this.
21:04 < perlDreamer> Running Over to Florida Leaving My Applicances On
21:05 <@WRE> (mlamar@EN) lol
21:05 < crythias> s/Running/Rolling
21:05 < perlDreamer> \/
21:05 < perlDreamer>  /
21:05 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) Refactoring Objects That Fearless-leader Left Misconfigured All OVer
21:06 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) no capital v
21:06 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) oops
21:06 < crythias>  /humanity : Pattern not found: humanity
21:06 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) Hey Michelle... check this out.  The freenode folks won't see this.
21:07 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) gooey tells GW humor
21:07 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) now he's talking to us
21:07 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) gooey: shut up
21:07 < perlDreamer> I'll be back in a little while guys
21:07 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat046.mxim.com] has left #webgui []
21:08 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) he'll also do weather
21:08 <@WRE> (mlamar@EN) cool, is there a list of commands?
21:08 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) I'm thinking of doing an announce when people join the channel
21:08 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) that has them
21:09 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) the only thing that sux is the people on freenode can't see what gooey says
21:09 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) so it spams them with our commands
21:09 <@WRE> (mlamar@EN) too bad
21:09 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) I'm trying to figure out how to get him to relay some of the stuff he says
21:10 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) hah
21:10 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) eh... he's ignoring me now
21:10 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) he thinks I'm flooding the channel
21:10 <@WRE> (mlamar@EN) did you write gooey?
21:10 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) I need to relax that
21:11 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) gooey: shut up
21:11 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) god no
21:11 <@WRE> (mlamar@EN) ha ha
21:11 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) he's an eggdrop bot
21:11 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) I compiled him and host him
21:11 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) I also run WRE on freenode
21:11 <@WRE> (mlamar@EN) the future is theirs :)
21:11 -!- mode/#webgui [+o crythias] by pbmdawg
21:11 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) he doesn't know as many tricks as gooey yet
21:12 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) if you haven't noticed... he trys to join the conversation when you utter his name
21:12 -!- rizen [n=rizen@64.241.37.140] has joined #webgui
21:12 < rizen> back
21:12 <@WRE> (mlamar@EN) do the freenode folks see gooey's conversation too?
21:12 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) and I'm rigin' the bell... rockin' on the mic while the fly girls yell
21:12 <@pbmdawg> no
21:12 <@pbmdawg> we don't see gooey's goo
21:12 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) LOL
21:13 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) yeah... that's what I was saying
21:13 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) because he relays the conversation
21:13 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) he doesn't send what he says
21:13 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) or it would be like a feedback loop
21:13 <@WRE> (mlamar@EN) got it
21:13 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) echoing the echo kinda thing
21:14 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) wre's output won't show up here either
21:15 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) rizen: did you leave the distractions of panera bread?
21:16 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) oh btw
21:16 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) everyone should watch this
21:16 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN)  http://ts.searching.com/download.asp?id=497426
21:16 < rizen> no
21:16 < rizen> i'm still here
21:16 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) haha
21:17 < rizen> just had lunch with some chicas that came by
21:17 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) 6.9 will now be delayed another month or 6
21:18 < rizen> why is that?
21:18 < rizen> cuz i had lunch?
21:18 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) yeah... how could you
21:18 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) no
21:18 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) b/c of your distractions
21:18 < rizen> i c
21:18 < rizen> it's true, i don't get as much done when i work outside
21:19 <@WRE> * (snapcount@EN) increases screen resolution to all more efficent multi-tasking
21:19 < rizen> good thing i only do it once in a while
21:19 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) you must interact with other humans sometimes
21:19 -!- crythias changed the topic of #webgui to: WebGUI real time help. et al. | http://www.plainblack.com |  6.8.4 latest version | SVN https://svn.webgui.org/svnroot/WebGUI (6.9) | SVN https://svn.webgui.org/svnroot/branch/WebGUI_6.8 (6.8)
21:19 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) although coding in your underware is very liberating
21:20 <@pbmdawg> is underware more like shareware, or freeware?
21:20 <@crythias> um. loose change is lame.
21:21 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) depends on what kind of person you are I suppose
21:21 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) I would consider my underware shareware to one party
21:21 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) some girls I've met would probably consider them freeware
21:21 <@crythias> Yeah, if you believe in whatever you see in a mockumentary, I guess you'd like it.
21:21 <@pbmdawg> there are much better 9/11 exposés
21:22 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) well, there are certain things that I find hard to believe
21:22 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) the biggest being it's too many people to keep quiet
21:22 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) if it is a conspiracy
21:22 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) too many involved
21:22 <@crythias> I just went over this with paranoia/phobia.
21:22 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) haha
21:22 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) on the other hand
21:23 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) the lack of a 757 at the pentagon is also disturbing
21:23 <@crythias> one of the contentions is that there isn't any grass disturbances, therefore, no plane?
21:23 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) that doesn't bother me
21:23 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) the one that bothered me is seeing other plane crashes
21:24 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) and the hole in the building
21:24 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) there was no wreckage
21:24 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) and the whole was too small
21:24 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) err hole
21:24 <@crythias> there was wreckage. and the hole was big enough.
21:24 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) ok...
21:25  * pbmdawg tries to rein in the topic....
21:25 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) do you have a resource that rebuffs loose change
21:25 <@pbmdawg> i'm gonna wait on the outcome of this lawsuit: http://www.flight77.info/
21:25 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) I'd like to see your side
21:25 <@crythias> yes. what was xdanger's log page?
21:26 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) umm... I don't know
21:26 <@crythias> http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/green/loose_change.html
21:27 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) thanks
21:27 <@crythias> not *my* side.
21:30 <@WRE> (mlamar@EN) I'm heading out for lunch - talk to yall later.
21:30 <@WRE> *** [signoff/#webgui] mlamar (Leaving) on EFnet
21:32 < rizen> so what's the deal here
21:32 < rizen> are we making any progress
21:32 < rizen> or are we just talking about underware and conspiracy theories
21:35 < rizen> roy
21:35 < rizen> is anybod working on that deconstructor thing?
21:36 <@crythias> Roy is.
21:36 < rizen> k
21:37 < rizen> colin are you here?
21:37 <@pbmdawg> !seen perlDreamer
21:37 <@crythias> he had to leave quickly.
21:38 <@crythias> (14:09:52) perlDreamer: I'll be back in a little while guys
21:38 <@crythias> (14:10:00) perlDreamer left the room.
21:39 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) I'm not working on the deconstructor thing
21:39 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) I can though...
21:39 <@crythias> sorry. I misread that.
21:52 < rizen> roy are you doing the deconstructor thing?
21:52 < rizen> if not, i'll do it
21:52 < rizen> since there are no takers
21:57 <@WRE> (snapcount@EN) I can do it
23:32 <@crythias> talk to you later.
23:33 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has quit ["if a dog poops in the middle of the woods, does it still smell?"]
23:34 -!- pbmdawg [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has left #webgui []
23:45 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat046.mxim.com] has joined #webgui
23:46 < rizen> yay!!!
23:46 < perlDreamer> howdy
23:46 < rizen> perl dreamer is back
23:46 < rizen> i'm a bug fixing maniac
23:46 < perlDreamer> I saw
23:47 < perlDreamer> mind if I hack on Session.pm a little?
23:47 < rizen> WebGUI::Session::Icon is really screwed up
23:47 < rizen> yeah that's fine
23:47 < rizen> let me check in what i've done
23:47 < perlDreamer> how's group?
23:47 < perlDreamer> Group.pm?
23:47 < rizen> i think group.pm is pretty good
23:47 < rizen> no syntax errors at least
23:47 < rizen> i've been going through them one by one
23:48 < rizen> perl -c XXX.pm
23:48 < rizen> I'm up to Session.pm
23:48 < rizen> and the Sesssion subfolder right now
23:48 < rizen> So if you want to start after session
23:48 < rizen> taht would be good
23:49 < perlDreamer> After Session how?
23:50 < perlDreamer> Hey, we're compiling!
23:50 < rizen> I mean
23:50 < rizen> Storage.pm
23:50 < perlDreamer> Gotcha
23:50 < rizen> the next one alphabetically
23:50 < rizen> while i finish off the Session/Folder
--- Day changed Sat Jan 14 2006
00:01 < perlDreamer> Storage clean
00:01 < perlDreamer> Subscription won't compile due to Commerce/Payment.pm problems
00:01 < rizen> are they things you can fix
00:01 < perlDreamer> I think so.
00:01 < perlDreamer> all other files on top are clean alphabetically after Session
00:02 < perlDreamer> I think Commerce/Payment.pm probably needs to be sessionized.
00:03 < rizen> oh you know what
00:03 < rizen> i don't know that i actually ever converted
00:03 < rizen> anything under the Commerce folder
00:03 < rizen> except for the regex stuff
00:03 < rizen> i never went through it and created session methods
00:03 < rizen> and modified class methods
00:03 < rizen> etc
00:03 < perlDreamer> that would probably explain it :)
00:04 < perlDreamer> I'll be in Commerce/Item/Product.pm
00:06 < rizen> cool
00:06 < rizen> still working on the session folder
00:10 < perlDreamer> as far as bugs go, I'm not one who should talk
00:10 < perlDreamer> but why document the constructor as "new" but name it "init"?
00:10 < rizen> don't know
00:10 < rizen> i didn't write the commerce doe
00:10 < rizen> code
00:11 < perlDreamer> I know
00:11 < rizen> martin kamerbeek did it
00:27 < perlDreamer> okay, there's one
00:28 < perlDreamer> I need to hack schematics for a bit, but I'll be back
00:28 < rizen> k
00:28 < rizen> i'll be leaving shortly
00:40 < perlDreamer> just let me know where you left off
00:40 < perlDreamer> going away for the weekend?
00:41 < rizen> ok, i'm done with session
00:41 < rizen> all that needs to be done is macro
00:41 < rizen> and asset
00:41 < rizen> i already did auth
00:41 < perlDreamer> are you all checked in?
00:41 < rizen> session
00:41 < rizen> and sql
00:41 < rizen> yes
00:41 < rizen> oh...crap
00:41 < rizen> operations too
00:42 < perlDreamer> yeah
00:42 < rizen> once we have all the syntax errors fixed
00:42 < rizen> we can actually start working on the test scripts
00:42 < rizen> i'll be online this weekend some
00:42 < rizen> though not as much as usual
00:42 < rizen> cuz i'm doing some remodeling
00:42 < perlDreamer> what are you doing?
00:43 < perlDreamer> do all the sub Session modules need to be loaded in Session?
00:43 < perlDreamer> I'm getting an error:
00:43 < perlDreamer> Can't locate object method "new" via package "WebGUI::Session::ErrorHandler" (perhaps you forgot to load "WebGUI::Session::ErrorHandler"?) at ../lib/WebGUI/Session.pm line 222.
00:44 < rizen> just some minor stuff in my second bathroom
00:44 < rizen> oh yes, all the session modules do need to be loaded
00:45 < perlDreamer> Can you get that one?
00:45 < perlDreamer> I'm neck deep in the shipping module
00:45 < perlDreamer> We should ask Marten to look everything over once we're done.
00:48 < rizen> i can't
00:48 < rizen> i have to go right now
00:48 < perlDreamer> okay
00:48 < rizen> throw it up there on the bug list
00:48 < rizen> and i'll give it a look tommorrow
00:48 < rizen> thank you sir
00:48 < perlDreamer> good luck!
00:48 < rizen> ttyl
00:49 -!- rizen [n=rizen@64.241.37.140] has left #webgui []
01:33 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
01:33 -!- mode/#webgui [+o crythias] by xdanger
01:38 < perlDreamer> it compiles now
01:38 < perlDreamer> kind of
01:41 < perlDreamer> we can run tests again!
01:42 <@crythias> kewl.
01:42  * crythias didn't get his PS.
01:42 < perlDreamer> --crythias
01:42 < perlDreamer> Que paso?
01:43 -!- specsmu [n=rmiller@ppp-71-128-23-212.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #webgui
01:43 <@crythias> olvide' a obtener my cosa de poder.
01:43  * specsmu wonders if anyone is available to help with a problem. :)
01:43 <@crythias> para my PC.
01:43 < specsmu> what language is that?
01:43 < perlDreamer> specsmu:  what's the problem
01:43 < perlDreamer> spanish
01:43 < specsmu> ahh
01:44 <@crythias> It's espanish.
01:44 < perlDreamer> floridanish
01:44 < specsmu> well, I did a new vhost install on a computer that already has a running version of webgui.
01:44 < perlDreamer> which is probalby muy cubano
01:44 < perlDreamer> what's your question?
01:44 < specsmu> the extras directory doesn't appear to be showing up.
01:44 < specsmu> so all the images and stuffs are broken.
01:44 < perlDreamer> check your config file?
01:44 <@crythias> httpd.conf allow,deny on extras?
01:45 < perlDreamer> Unix level permission on the directory?
01:45 < specsmu> it's configured pretty much identically to every other webgui vhosts, all of which work fine.
01:45 < perlDreamer> errors in the webgui.log file?
01:45 < specsmu> none.
01:45 < specsmu> the only errors in error_log say the files aren't found.
01:45 < perlDreamer> crythias, I bow to your superior debug experience.
01:45 < perlDreamer> I'm just a documentation hacker.
01:45 < specsmu> ;)
01:46 <@crythias> I'm saying check your allow,deny for extras directory.
01:46 <@crythias> in httpd.conf
01:46 < specsmu> ok, I can.  It worked in other vhosts though just fine.
01:46 <@crythias> and the .conf for extras location.
01:46 <@crythias> webgui.conf, that is.
01:46 < specsmu> oooooooops.
01:47 <@crythias> ?
01:47  * specsmu slithers back into the corner with a shameface
01:47 < perlDreamer> methinks you got it, crythias
01:47 < specsmu> I forgot to add an Alias.
01:47 <@crythias> hee
01:47 <@crythias> it happens.
01:47 < specsmu> there we go
01:48 < perlDreamer> now you either have to fix a bug, find a bug or submit a doc patch
01:48 < specsmu> hmm
01:48 < perlDreamer> that's our standard fee for online community help
01:48 < specsmu> I have to write a template
01:48 < perlDreamer> or tell a license plate joke.
01:48 < perlDreamer> that works too
01:48 < specsmu> that's punishment enough
01:48 <@crythias> What kind of warm fuzzies should I have when I get a referral link from a del.icio.us link?
01:48 < specsmu> hmm, license plate joke.
01:49 <@crythias> Have I really made the big time?
01:49 < specsmu> well, I saw a license plate a few days ago that said D SABAI
01:49 < perlDreamer> what's del.icio.us?
01:49 <@crythias> it's social bookmarking.
01:49 < specsmu> now I have to figure out how to make a good looking page in webgui.
01:49 < specsmu> so far I have not been able to do that at all.
01:49 < specsmu> I've been able to make a very *functional* page
01:50 <@crythias> It's not that hard, once you figure out how to make a good looking web page.
01:50 < specsmu> but those are not at all the same thing.
01:50 < specsmu> crythias: I haven't figured that out, either.
01:50 < perlDreamer> have you thought about using one of the WebGUI themes/templates?
01:50 <@crythias> I just can't get past those people who insist that photoshop slices make a good web page.
01:50 < specsmu> I like etomite's templates, but they don't work here
01:50 < specsmu> perlDreamer: yes, but I haven't found any other than the default
01:51 <@crythias> I have one.
01:51 < perlDreamer> WG version?
01:51 < specsmu> 6.8.3
01:51 <@crythias> and I've worked on a few from OSWD.org
01:51 <@crythias> I haven't played with 6.8.3, though. keep losing images :)
01:51 < specsmu> looks like they rolled out a new version
01:52 < perlDreamer> yeah
01:52 < perlDreamer> I'd upgrade
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01:52 < specsmu> humm.
01:52 <@WRE> *** Join snapcount (~roy@241.246.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com) on EFnet
01:53 <@crythias> UPGRDBL
01:53 < perlDreamer> BADFORM
01:54 < perlDreamer> code, that is
01:54 <@crythias> CNT NST8
01:54 < perlDreamer> which is why you should upgrade to 6.8.4
01:54 < specsmu> what's with the license plate stuff?
01:54 <@crythias> Matt and I got into it.
01:55 <@crythias> CNT NST8 is 'spost to mean Can't Instantiate.
01:55 < specsmu> her'es a suggestion.
01:55 < specsmu> move preload.perl to preload.perl.orig or some such.
01:55 < specsmu> that way when you upgrade, you don't have to reemmber to change it every time.
01:55 <@crythias> heh.
01:56 <@crythias> I hear ya. 'cept it'll break everyone else
01:56 < specsmu> how?
01:57 <@crythias> well, supposing one actually gets it to work on first try, it's not obious on a new install that the .orig is 'sposed to be copied.
01:57 <@crythias> obvious*
01:57 < specsmu> well, you do the same thing with etc/*.conf files.
01:57 <@crythias> yeah but do you think about sbin?
01:58 <@crythias> Not that I don't agree with you. I do.
01:58 < specsmu> you have to edit it anyway on a new install if you don't put WebGUI in /data.
01:58 <@crythias> symlink
01:58 <@crythias> although it didn't quite work for me, somehow.
02:00  * specsmu looks for webgui templates.
02:01  * specsmu notes also that the webgui site is kinda small.
02:01 < specsmu> er slow
02:01  * specsmu *also* notes that the only themes available are for old versions.
02:03 <@crythias> My resizeable template is copy-pasteable.
02:03 <@crythias> :)
02:03 <@crythias> not that it's a masterpiece.
02:05  * specsmu sighs
02:05 < specsmu> I suck at logos, I suck at anything but bordered tables.
02:09 <@crythias> NO LOGO
02:09 < specsmu> excuse me?
02:09 <@crythias> BAD PL8
02:10 < specsmu> ?
02:10 < perlDreamer> more license plates
02:12 <@crythias> I have about 3 that I like from OSWD.
02:13 < perlDreamer> license plates?
02:13 <@crythias> http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2092
02:14 <@crythias> http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/1794
02:14 <@crythias> http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/1787
02:15 <@crythias> that last one has been a real nasty one in WebGUI
02:15 <@crythias> but it's purty
02:15 <@crythias> at least, to me.
02:18 < specsmu> so what is a good place to get web clipart?
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02:55 < specsmu> so, what's the variable that displays the body layout again?  I accidentally deleted it from the template.
02:57 < perlDreamer> I always look it up in the docs
02:57 < perlDreamer> And I'm headin' out for tonight
02:58 < specsmu> hmm
02:58 < perlDreamer> one WebGUI test is fully running with no errors.
02:58 < specsmu> seeya
02:58 -!- perlDreamer [n=ckuskie@nat046.mxim.com] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]
03:00 <@crythias> hrm.
03:00 <@crythias> <tmpl_var body.content>
03:01 < specsmu> I found it, but thanks.
03:01 <@crythias> http://www.gwy2.org/fomfiles/cache/45.html
03:03 < specsmu> I'm glad it's almost the weekend
03:03 < specsmu> I have to work through it, but at least I don't have to go to the office.
03:04  * crythias nods in acknowledgment of the statement.
03:04 < specsmu> I hate webgui
03:04 < specsmu> not because it's not easy to use and what not
03:04 < specsmu> but because it's so farking complex
03:04 < specsmu> but it's the best out there, and that's not a compliment to webgui.
03:05 < specsmu> whenever I use webgui, I get the urge to connect it to an oracle database, put it in a million dollar server, and only configure it while wearing a suit and tie.
03:05 <@crythias> except that you could buy Oracle's version.
03:06 < specsmu> maybe I'm just easily annoyed.
03:06 < specsmu> :)
03:06 <@crythias> :)
03:07 < specsmu> oh, you're fscking kidding me.
03:07 < specsmu> I go to root->home, click on the checkbox, and absolutely nothing happens.
03:08 <@crythias> what would you expect happens?
03:08 < specsmu> the checkbox checks?
03:08 <@crythias> oh. 
03:09 < specsmu> not webgui's fault, though.  konqueror seems to have some broken javascript.
03:12 < specsmu> oh, cool.  I like the "cool menu"
03:17 < specsmu> hmm, any idea how to get the descendants to go left to right on a "cool menu" and have the descendants on the pop-down?  or am I missing the point entirely?
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04:13 <@crythias> I'd guess you'd have the siblings left-to-right.
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08:54 < specsmu> anyone awake?
08:54 < specsmu> nm.
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16:58 -!- mode/#webgui [+o pbmdawg] by xdanger
17:13 <@pbmdawg> martin
17:41 < MrHairgrease> pbmdawg!
17:53 <@pbmdawg> yes
18:09 <@pbmdawg> What's up HairGrease
18:36 < MrHairgrease> you asked martin first.
18:36 < MrHairgrease> Who are you anyway?
18:37 <@pbmdawg> mwilson
18:37 < MrHairgrease> oh ok
18:37 <@pbmdawg> i was going to bug you about when you're going to release your Data wobject.
18:37 < MrHairgrease> go ahead
18:37 < MrHairgrease> :)
18:37  * pbmdawg bugs MHg
18:38  * MrHairgrease ignores bugs
18:38 < MrHairgrease> easiest way to code :)
18:38 <@pbmdawg> have you looked at 6.9 ?
18:38 <@pbmdawg> WebGUI, that is.
18:38 < MrHairgrease> no
18:38 <@pbmdawg> it's unbelievably different.
18:39 < MrHairgrease> codewiswe?
18:39 < MrHairgrease> or the ui?
18:39 <@pbmdawg> probably 70% of the lines of code are changed.
18:39 <@pbmdawg> ui is the same.
18:39 < MrHairgrease> that's not very weird. 
18:39 <@pbmdawg> oh.
18:39 < MrHairgrease> you'd expect that if you change the totall api
18:39 < MrHairgrease> right?
18:40 < MrHairgrease> I'm having exams this week
18:40 <@pbmdawg> oh.
18:40 < MrHairgrease> so from the 23rd on I'll be doing more core stuff
18:40 < MrHairgrease> i hope
18:40 <@pbmdawg> really??
18:40 <@pbmdawg> that'd be very welcomed.
18:40 < MrHairgrease> the data sql form thing is finished btw.
18:41 < MrHairgrease> so i guess i can spend more procolix time on wg
18:41 <@pbmdawg> so release it, so I can convert it to 6.9
18:41 < MrHairgrease> that's the 'i hope' part
18:41 < MrHairgrease> joeri will release it.
18:41 < MrHairgrease> I guess anytime soon.
18:41 <@pbmdawg> so, are you proud of it?
18:42 < MrHairgrease> yeah of course.
18:42 <@pbmdawg> oh.
18:42 < MrHairgrease> shouldn't i?
18:42 <@pbmdawg> maybe not, if you disagreed with the specs or something?
18:42 < MrHairgrease> it uses ajax :)
18:43 < MrHairgrease> if i don't like the specs. i can still be proud of it.
18:43 <@pbmdawg> I suppose that's true.
18:43 < MrHairgrease> I think it's the biggest thing i have ever coded.
18:43 < MrHairgrease> think 3000+ lines of perl plus 500+ javascript
18:43 <@pbmdawg> yeah.
18:43 < MrHairgrease> yeah!
18:44 < MrHairgrease> sorry for that.
18:44 <@pbmdawg> this week I'm converting a 4k lines of perl wg5.5.8 app to wg6.7
18:44 <@pbmdawg> whee; fun.
18:44 <@pbmdawg> I think it'll be 1.5k lines when I'm done.
18:44 < MrHairgrease> i hope so. It's you day job. :P
18:44 < MrHairgrease> I can have exams as an excuse :)
18:45 < MrHairgrease> do frank and jt and the other dev guys hang out here a lot?
18:46 <@pbmdawg> not frank
18:46 < MrHairgrease> Anyway. I gotta cuddle my girlfriend.\
18:46 <@pbmdawg> sometimes JT.  very often Roy (newest pb staff/dev).  very often Colin.
18:46 <@pbmdawg> sometimes me.
18:47 <@pbmdawg> sometimes about 5 others.
18:47 <@pbmdawg> k bye
18:47  * specsmu is just a webgui enduser
18:47 < MrHairgrease> I'm not really the irc type either.
18:47 <@pbmdawg> and some webgui endusers like specsmu
18:47 < specsmu> :)
18:47 < MrHairgrease> ok see ya
18:47  * specsmu bows
18:47 <@pbmdawg> .... webgui endusers (whom we'd like to see get more involved in the community).
18:48 < specsmu> KP DRMNG
18:48 < specsmu> :D
18:48 <@pbmdawg> ?
18:48  * pbmdawg is confused.
18:48 < specsmu> guess you're not one of those license plate guys
18:48 <@pbmdawg> oh; I am.
18:48 <@pbmdawg> I just didn't get it.
18:48 < specsmu> hmmm
18:49 < specsmu> NOTRTNW
18:49 <@pbmdawg> do you know perl?
18:49 < specsmu> very well, in fact.
18:49 <@pbmdawg> oh.
18:49 <@pbmdawg> prob. better than I, i'm sure.
18:49 < specsmu> I just have barely enough time to get done what I need to get done
18:49 <@pbmdawg> oh.
18:49 <@pbmdawg> specsmu is at capacity.
18:50 <@pbmdawg> what do you do, specsmu
18:50 < specsmu> yup.
18:50 < specsmu> computer admin
18:50 < specsmu> web hosting
18:50 < specsmu> webgui is one of the products I offer
18:50 < specsmu> which I do appreciate
18:51 < specsmu> and I'd contribute back if I had the time, but I really can't do a whole lot that doesn't help my bottom line right now
18:51 < specsmu> if I get a few customers, I'll send money ;)
18:53 <@pbmdawg> what's your geog. location?
18:53 <@pbmdawg> if I my ask
18:53 <@pbmdawg> may ask
18:53 < specsmu> southern california
18:53 < specsmu> land of fruits and nuts
18:56 < specsmu> I see you are from kansas city?
18:57 <@pbmdawg> yeah.
18:57 < specsmu> I used to live in the midwest.
18:59 < specsmu> I seriously don't miss it.
18:59 <@pbmdawg> why is that
18:59 < specsmu> too cold in the winter, too hot in the summer
18:59 < specsmu> nicer looking chicks here :)
19:00 < specsmu> I do miss the thunderstorms though.
19:00 <@pbmdawg> I don't get out much (ever), so I don't know how the chicks look around here.
19:00 < specsmu> lol
19:00 < specsmu> chatsworth is the porn capital of the world
19:01 < specsmu> I'm not in chatsworth but a couple of miles outside it
19:01 < specsmu> I think some of the actresses live around here.
19:01 <@pbmdawg> is that what they're called?
19:01 < specsmu> well...  dunno
19:01 < specsmu> gotta call 'em something
19:01 < specsmu> and I'm too nice right now for "dirty whores"
19:01 < specsmu> after I've had some caffeine, I might change my mind.
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19:02 <@pbmdawg> speaking of caffeine...
19:03 < specsmu> I'm going back to bed for a while.
19:03 < specsmu> it's the only good thing about weekends
19:03 < specsmu> seeya
19:03 <@pbmdawg> cya
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23:32 <@rizen> howdy everybody
23:32 <@rizen> if there's anybody even here
23:32 <@rizen> =)
23:32 <@snapcount> I'm here
23:32 -!- pbmdawg [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui
23:32 <@snapcount> but not fur long
23:32 -!- mode/#webgui [+o pbmdawg] by xdanger
23:32 <@rizen> why not
23:32 <@rizen> how can you leave me like this?
23:32 <@rizen> how's 6.8.5 coming along?
23:32 <@snapcount> all I have to do is get in my car
23:32 <@snapcount> it's easy
23:33 <@snapcount> honestly... that's what I'm doing all day Sunday
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23:33 <@snapcount> damn rizen
23:33 <@snapcount> you brought everyone with you
23:33 <@pbmdawg> we flock.
23:34 <@snapcount> ok... so I've decided I'm very unorganized
23:34 <@snapcount> and I'm trying to fix it
23:34 <@snapcount> the mozilla calendar seems cool
23:34 <@pbmdawg> Sunbird?
23:34 <@snapcount> but the timezones don't work
23:34 <@snapcount> yeah... that's one version
23:34 <@pbmdawg> nope; no timezones.
23:34 <@snapcount> I kinda need that to work
23:34 <@snapcount> b/c my TZ is different than ya'lls
23:35 <@snapcount> so when vrby sends appts the time is wrong
23:35 <@snapcount> and the point is to *not* miss shit
23:35 <@snapcount> suggestions?
23:35 <@snapcount> (except from rizen) -- he'll probably say something like "stop sucking"
23:35 <@pbmdawg> a $10 palm from ebay?
23:36 <@rizen> actually
23:36 <@rizen> i believe if you log in to web mail
23:36 <@rizen> and go into settings
23:36 <@rizen> you can set your own personal time zone
23:36 <@rizen> i could be wrong
23:36 <@snapcount> hmmm
23:36 <@snapcount> that would be ideal
23:36 <@snapcount> I wanted something that would pop up reminders though
23:37 <@snapcount> b/c I start doing shit and get tunnel vision
23:37 <@snapcount> next thing I know it's like 4am
23:37 <@rizen> yup
23:37 <@rizen> you can set your time zone
23:37 <@rizen> reminders for calendars?
23:37 <@snapcount> I wonder if one of those pop3 checkers you mentioned
23:37 <@snapcount> would do task/event reminders
23:37 <@snapcount> yeah..
23:37 <@rizen> probably not
23:38 <@rizen> but your calendar is exported as an ics
23:38 <@rizen> therefore you can have sunbird
23:38 <@rizen> or any other calendaring agent
23:38 <@rizen> subscribe to it
23:38 <@rizen> and pop up reminders
23:38 <@pbmdawg> ics stores stuff in UTC
23:38 <@pbmdawg> with timezone offsets.
23:38 <@pbmdawg> afaik.
23:39 <@rizen> what does that have to do with the price of tea in china?
23:39 <@snapcount> yeah... but sunbird ignores the timezone settings
23:39 <@pbmdawg> so do the appt requests that vrby sends out.
23:39 <@rizen> get a different program then
23:39 <@rizen> OR
23:39 <@snapcount> actually they say CST in their
23:39 <@rizen> try setting your damn time zone in web mail
23:39 <@rizen> and see if that affects the time zones
23:39 <@snapcount> reminders fucker
23:39 <@rizen> being sent to you
23:40 <@snapcount> oh
23:40 <@snapcount> haha
23:40 <@snapcount> i c
23:40 <@snapcount> I wish they would get lightning working
23:40 <@snapcount> it's supposed to integrate sunbird with thunderbird
23:40 <@snapcount> kinda like outlook or groupwise
23:41 <@snapcount> that would be nice
23:41 <@pbmdawg> here's another potential speedup for WebGUI: http://www.revsys.com/writings/modperl/ModPerl-ParamBuilder/
23:41 <@pbmdawg> from the mod_perl list.
23:41 <@pbmdawg> Where PerlSetVars, PerlSetEnvs, etc. are evaluated for each and every request, custom directives are only evaluated when the Apache child is started. While this will probably not give you a noticeable increase in performance, in some environments every little bit counts.
23:41 <@snapcount> !seen rizen
23:41 <@rizen> hey matt
23:41 <@WRE> snapcount, rizen is right here!
23:42 <@pbmdawg> hey rizen
23:42 <@rizen> FOCUS!!!
23:42 <@snapcount> hey guys
23:42 <@pbmdawg> on what
23:42 <@snapcount> danieal son... you lack dicipline
23:43  * snapcount squints eyes
23:44  * pbmdawg bemoans his lack of a sense of humor.
23:44 <@rizen> focus on something
23:44 <@rizen> anything
23:44 <@rizen> you get distracted as easily as a hooker spreads her legs
23:45 <@pbmdawg> as easily as $20 ?
23:45 <@snapcount> I'm failing to make the connection here
23:45 <@rizen> $5
23:45 <@rizen> we're working on getting webgui to work at all
23:45 <@snapcount> well... that's probably a good place to start
23:45  * pbmdawg capitulates to the arm-twisting.
23:45 <@rizen> and he's over here saying we should look at XXX to get a 0.0000003 per page request performance improvement
23:46  * snapcount notes the obscure reference to XXX
23:46 <@rizen> XXX is my favorite non-descript variable
23:46 <@rizen> i use it all the time
23:46 <@rizen> =)
23:46 <@snapcount> interesting
23:48  * pbmdawg just freed up 6.1 GB of non-descript variable from his hdd.
23:48 <@pbmdawg> j/k.
23:49 <@rizen> all you have is 6.1gb
23:49 <@rizen> please
23:50 <@pbmdawg> *had*
23:50 <@rizen> anything less than a terabyte is sinful
23:50 <@pbmdawg> !bash rizen
23:50 <@WRE> !bash search results: Q# 4488 | Q# 34053 | Q# 34031 | Q# 4497 | Q# 34025 | Q# 34040 | Q# 34037 | Q# 105260
23:50 <@pbmdawg> !bash 4488
23:50 <@WRE> |bash| <FM{FF1}> Rizen: I thought you didn't bang chicks, only me.
23:50 <@WRE> |bash| <FM{FF1}> ...men.
23:50 <@WRE> |bash| <FM{FF1}> GOD THAT WAS A BAD TYPO. 
23:50 <@pbmdawg> !bash 34053
23:51 <@WRE> |bash| <mchem> what does less do?
23:51 <@WRE> |bash| <Rizen> it's like more
23:51 <@WRE> |bash| <Rizen> but better
23:51 <@WRE> |bash| <aegis> conversations about unix are funny 
23:51 <@pbmdawg> !bash 34031
23:51 <@WRE> |bash| <malis> Also, minister seems to be the most efficient position
23:51 <@WRE> |bash| <rizen> minister?
23:51 <@WRE> |bash| <rizen> do you mean missionary?
23:51 <@WRE> |bash| <malis> whatever
23:51 <@WRE> |bash| <rizen> the minister position would be with the young boy on his knees 
23:51 <@rizen> what the hell? 
23:51 <@snapcount> dude
23:51 <@pbmdawg> I dunno; bash quotes with "rizen"
23:52 <@rizen> methinks that whatever i'm paying snapcount
23:52 <@rizen> it's way too much
23:52 <@snapcount> this should be interesting
23:53 <@snapcount> pbmdawg reveals your discovery of the minister position, and my usefulness is questioned
23:53 <@pbmdawg> somehow i doubt that's the same rizen
23:53 <@rizen> ok...how about we stop fucking around now
23:54 <@snapcount> it's saturday
23:54 <@snapcount> what's the project anyway
23:54 <@snapcount> 6.9 session stuff
23:54 <@rizen> yeah, but this is annoying
23:55 <@snapcount> seeing all this WG talent doing nothing at the same time?
23:55 <@rizen> i know you like your little napolean dynamite movie
23:55 <@rizen> but this is more humorless than that
23:55  * pbmdawg == "talent"?   hahaha
23:56 <@pbmdawg> hey, I liked napoleon dynamite.
23:56 <@rizen> now for some intelligent conversation
23:56 <@rizen> how's it going len?
23:56  * snapcount hears crickets chirping
23:56 <@rizen> i think you scared him way
23:56 <@pbmdawg> it's past midnight where Len is.
23:56 <@rizen> with your mindless drivel
23:57 <@snapcount> must have
23:57 <@rizen> yeah, but he just joined
23:57 <@rizen> man..i think i'm very close to having this work
23:58 <@rizen> 6.9 that is
23:58 <@pbmdawg> yeah.
23:59 <@pbmdawg> Env.pm needs a DESTROY
23:59 <@rizen> lot's of stuff needs a destroy
23:59 <@rizen> roy did you ever get around to that?
--- Day changed Sun Jan 15 2006
00:00 <@snapcount> no... on the list for tommorow, and I thought it was a Destructor method?
00:00 <@rizen> are  you making a joke?
00:00 <@rizen> it's not really possible to tell
00:01 <@pbmdawg> i'm pretty sure he wasn't joking.
00:01 <@snapcount> you said the method was supposed to be called destructor, not destroy
00:01 <@snapcount> you corrected yourself in the IM
00:01 <@rizen> no
00:01 <@rizen> i said the comment should say "Deconstructor"
00:02 <@rizen> the method HAS to be called DESTROY
00:02 <@rizen> all upper case like that
00:02 <@rizen> it's the perl convention
00:02 <@snapcount> well, that makes a lot more sense
00:02 <@rizen> just like BEGIN
00:03 <@snapcount> anyways... wasn't that just the style objects?
00:04 <@rizen> no
00:04 <@rizen> what planet are you on?
00:04 <@rizen> are you smoking dope or something?
00:04 <@rizen> a) there's only one Style object
00:04 <@rizen> so if that was the case
00:04 <@rizen> why wouldn't i just paste that in there myself
00:04  * pbmdawg finishes the last of the DESTROY methods....
00:05 <@rizen> b) you got the destructor thing wrong recursively
00:05 <@rizen> c) who are you?
00:05 <@rizen> d) i'm done now, i just though it would be cool to continue with this list
00:06 <@snapcount> I'm going to log all of our IM conversations from now on
00:07  * snapcount was framed
00:07 <@rizen> you should do that
00:07 <@pbmdawg> #-------------------------------------------------------------------
00:07 <@pbmdawg> =head DESTROY ( )
00:07 <@pbmdawg> Deconstructor.
00:07 <@rizen> cuz then you'd have some notes to follow
00:07 <@pbmdawg> =cut
00:07 <@rizen> that aren't all screwed up like your brain
00:08 <@pbmdawg> sub DESTROY {
00:08 <@pbmdawg>         my $self = shift;
00:08 <@pbmdawg>         undef $self;
00:08 <@pbmdawg> }
00:09 <@pbmdawg> in Session::close
00:10 <@rizen> hmm?
00:10 <@pbmdawg> why do we need all these identical DESTROY methods...? why not just 
00:10 <@pbmdawg> delete $self->{$object};
00:10 <@pbmdawg> doesn't that clean up all the references and such?
00:11 <@rizen> because they don't all work that way
00:11 <@rizen> i want a uniform way of calling stuff
00:11 <@rizen> for instance DESTROY in WebGUI::SQL has to close a db connection
00:12 <@rizen> By having the destroy method in all of them
00:12 <@rizen> if we ever decide that we need to clean up some resources
00:12 <@rizen> we can do that
00:12 <@rizen> without changing the api
00:12 <@pbmdawg> likewise, would WebGUI::Session::ErrorHandler::DESTROY  have this?
00:12 <@pbmdawg> $Log::Log4perl::caller_depth--;
00:13 <@rizen> that's a good point
00:13 <@rizen> it probably should
00:13 <@pbmdawg> should the $Log::Log4perl::caller_depth++; line be moved into new()
00:13 <@rizen> yes
00:13 <@rizen> wasn't it already?
00:13 <@pbmdawg> no.
00:14 <@rizen> ok, then yes, please do so
00:14 <@pbmdawg> it was in the implied BEGIN.
00:14 <@rizen> ah
00:14 <@rizen> it's these sorts of things that are the reason we should have a standardized DESTROY method
00:15 <@pbmdawg> gotcha.
00:15 <@rizen> roy, i hope i didn't hurt your feelings
00:15 <@rizen> sometimes i play too rough
00:16 <@rizen> matt...help me figure this out
00:16 <@rizen> cd t
00:16 <@rizen> perl User.t --configFile=dev.localhost.localdomain.conf
00:16 <@rizen> we get an error
00:16 <@rizen> Can't locate object method "fetchrow_hashref" via package "WebGUI::SQL::ResultSet" at ../lib/WebGUI/SQL/Resultset.pm line 170.
00:17 <@snapcount> I think I can handle it
00:17 <@rizen> it's almost as if it's trying to call fetchrow_hashref on the WebGUI::SQL::ResultSet object
00:17 <@rizen> but it should be calling it on the statement handler
00:18 <@snapcount> shit... see this is why I need a calendar pop-up
00:18 <@snapcount> gotta go... supposed to be taking christmas lights down at 5
00:18 <@pbmdawg> forgot about date with the girlfriend?
00:18 <@rizen> bye
00:18 <@snapcount> peace out homies... keep it real
00:19  * snapcount bangs on chest and flashes his bling-bling
00:19 <@pbmdawg> oh.
00:20 <@rizen> bling bling
00:20 <@rizen> you have bling bling?
00:20 <@pbmdawg> uh; why does it think ResultSet.pm has a line 170
00:20 <@rizen> whoa
00:20 <@rizen> it does have a line 170
00:21 <@rizen> that's in the hashRef method
00:21 <@rizen> crap
00:21 <@rizen> i never checked it in
00:21 <@rizen> =)
00:21 <@pbmdawg> I don't have a SQL::ResultSEt
00:21 <@pbmdawg> :P
00:22 <@rizen> goin in now
00:23 <@rizen> k, it's there
00:23 <@pbmdawg> no wonder ->env was working, but ->setting and ->db were not
00:24 <@rizen> i'm sorry for sucking
00:24 <@rizen> i'll try to do better
00:25 <@pbmdawg> remember when you forgot to commit like all of tinymce2.
00:25 <@pbmdawg> that was funny to watch/listen
00:25 <@pbmdawg> "oh wait, here are some more"
00:25 <@rizen> it works on my machine
00:25 <@rizen> not my fault if it doesn't work on yours
00:25 <@rizen> just because i forgot to check stuff in
00:26 <@pbmdawg> committing DESTROYs for the session subpackages.
00:27 <@pbmdawg> grr
00:27 <@rizen> so what do you think of the new api
00:27 <@rizen> is it better or worse?
00:27 <@pbmdawg> i can't say until see how subjectively fast it runs on my machine. :)
00:27 <@rizen> granted that none of it works
00:28 <@rizen> API has nothing to do with speed
00:28 <@rizen> i wasn't asking how you like the code
00:28 <@rizen> i was asking how you like the API
00:28 <@pbmdawg> oh.
00:28 <@pbmdawg> it's nice.
00:28 <@pbmdawg> I dunno what else to say.
00:29 <@rizen> do you like that everything is all objectified
00:29 <@pbmdawg> it's gonna be fun to convert all of a certain client's stuff.
00:29 <@pbmdawg> i really don't know.
00:30 <@pbmdawg> I haven't gotten my hands dirty in it yet.
00:30 <@pbmdawg> SQL::ResultSet is failing to compile for me
00:31 <@pbmdawg> to be more specific
00:31 <@pbmdawg> SQL.pm is failing to compile.
00:32 <@rizen> let me check in some more bug fixes
00:32 <@rizen> ok, try it now
00:33 <@pbmdawg> Can't locate WebGUI/SQL/Resultset.pm in @INC
00:33 <@rizen> it's ResultSet
00:33 <@rizen> not ResultSet
00:33 <@pbmdawg> use WebGUI::SQL::Resultset;
00:34 <@pbmdawg> in SQL.pm
00:34 <@rizen> ah fixed it
00:34 <@pbmdawg> mruhaha
00:35 <@rizen> that didn't fix the other big problem though
00:35 <@pbmdawg> same error.
00:35 <@rizen> perl User.t --configFile=dev.localhost.localdomain.conf
00:35 <@rizen> what do you mean same error?
00:35 <@rizen> what error?
00:35 <@rizen> we've talked about several in the past 20 min
00:35 <@pbmdawg> nuthin; never mind
00:35 <@rizen> so back to the problem at hand
00:36 <@rizen> help me figure out why the result set object isn't getting created properly
00:39 <@pbmdawg> oh.
00:39 <@pbmdawg> wait; nm.
00:39 <@pbmdawg> figuring this out...
00:40 <@rizen> ahah
00:40 <@rizen> found
00:40 <@pbmdawg> wut
00:40 <@rizen> nevermind
00:40 <@rizen> i'm an idiot
00:42 <@rizen> i don't know what the problem is
00:42 <@rizen> i thought i found it
00:42 <@rizen> but then i didn't
00:42 <@pbmdawg> $VAR1 = bless( {}, 'DBI::db' );
00:43 <@pbmdawg> the dbh is not getting created first of all
00:43 <@pbmdawg> uh, I think.
00:45 <@rizen> are you saying that in the connect method
00:45 <@rizen> we're not creating the database handler?
00:45 <@pbmdawg> not sure.
00:46 <@pbmdawg> don't follow me down that rabbit goose chase
00:46 <@rizen> i'm 99% sure we are
00:46 <@rizen> otherwise we'd die
00:46 <@rizen> on line 226
00:46 <@rizen> of WebGUI::SQL
00:46 <@pbmdawg> ok.
00:47 < lenthamen> hello ladies
00:47 <@rizen> listen here dutchman
00:48 < lenthamen> oops wrongs channel :)
00:48 < lenthamen> hehe
00:48 <@rizen> heh
00:48 <@rizen> what are you still doing up
00:48 <@rizen> shouldn't you be in bed?
00:48 < lenthamen> Nope, I go to bed only when I'm tired.
00:49 <@rizen> cool
00:49 <@rizen> then pull up a chair and help us track down a doozie of a problem
00:49 < specsmu> wow, this channel really rocks sometimes.
00:49 < specsmu> as in being active, not cool :)
00:49 < lenthamen> Hey specsmu
00:49 < specsmu> hoa
00:49 < specsmu> hola
00:50 <@rizen> are you saying that we're not cool?
00:50 < specsmu> no
00:50 < specsmu> I'm saying that this conversation isn't. :)
00:50 < specsmu> but it's ok
00:50 < specsmu> coding convos aren't supposed to be cool.
00:50 <@rizen> what kind of conversation would you prefer?
00:50 < specsmu> no no no
00:50 < specsmu> that's what this channel is for
00:50 <@rizen> i can have matt strap on some chaps and pull out the furry handcuffs
00:51 < specsmu> go right on ahead
00:51 < specsmu> rizen: ewwww.
00:51 <@rizen> =)
00:51 <@crythias> I'm playing with an install on my dual-boot game box.
00:51  * pbmdawg discovers all the fur has been eaten off his handcuffs by his dog.
00:51 < specsmu> unless matt is female
00:51 < specsmu> haha
00:51 < specsmu> in which case: rowr.
00:52 <@crythias> actually, I haven't dual-booted to new in so long I'm about 1 year behind in updates.
00:52 <@crythias> no. Matt's male. and married.
00:52 <@pbmdawg> prepare for 8MB of svn.
00:52 <@pbmdawg> crythias: /last
00:52 < specsmu> in which case, we're back to eww.
00:52 <@crythias> hm?
00:53 <@pbmdawg> EWEEYE
00:53 <@rizen> how dorky are we? sitting here on an irc channel coding late on saturday afternoon
00:53 <@rizen> or evening (depending on where you are)
00:53 <@rizen> or sunday morning in len's case
00:53  * crythias is in the process of runing cvsup for freebsd ports. that's how geeky.
00:53 < specsmu> rizen: very dorky. :-)  but I am too.
00:54 < specsmu> I have to finish my webgui site today
00:54 < specsmu> and do some other work too
00:54 -!- crythias is now known as GeWY
00:54 <@rizen> i hope it's not running on webgui 6.9
00:54 <@rizen> since that doesn't work
00:54 < lenthamen> I
00:54 < specsmu> oh, I've had a 6.9 working release for a while now
00:54 <@pbmdawg> rizen: $self->sth in ResultSet::array() is definitely an STH.
00:54 < specsmu> I just haven't shared it
00:54 < specsmu> LOL
00:54 <@rizen> damn you specsmu!!!
00:55 <@pbmdawg> rizen: I mean, it's definitely a blessed 'WebGUI::SQL::ResultSet'
00:55 < specsmu> ;-)
00:55 <@pbmdawg> oh, that's the problem.
00:55 <@GeWY> BSG was cool. creepy, but cool.
00:55 <@rizen> wait
00:55 <@rizen> so $self is a blessed WebGUI::SQL::ResultSet
00:55 <@rizen> or $self->sth is?
00:55 <@pbmdawg> use Data::Dumper;print Dumper($self->sth);
00:56 <@pbmdawg> $VAR1 = bless( {
00:56 <@pbmdawg>                  '_sth' => bless( {}, 'DBI::st' ),
00:56 <@pbmdawg> a bunch of stuff
00:56 < specsmu> if webgui wants another mascot, I have some finches who want to apply for the job.
00:56 <@pbmdawg>                }, 'WebGUI::SQL::ResultSet' );
00:57 <@pbmdawg> oh and there's still some debug code in ResultSet
00:58 <@rizen> crap
00:58 <@rizen> this isn't what's supposed to be printing out here
00:58 <@pbmdawg> yeah, there are two nested ResultSet objects
00:59 < lenthamen> Are we still talking on the ResultSet bug ?
00:59 <@rizen> $self->sth should just have dbi stuff in it
00:59 <@pbmdawg> oh
00:59 <@rizen> yes
00:59 <@pbmdawg> it's b/c ResultSet::prepare is recursive
00:59 <@pbmdawg> $db->dbh->prepare($sql)
01:00 <@pbmdawg> which calls return WebGUI::SQL::ResultSet->prepare($sql, $self);
01:00 <@pbmdawg> or something having to do one of the files that includes one or more more of those lines. :p
01:00 <@rizen> found it
01:01 <@rizen> yes
01:01 <@rizen> you're right
01:01 <@rizen> i guess i should also read your posts
01:01 <@rizen> =)
01:01 <@rizen> read shouldn't be blessing anything
01:01 <@pbmdawg> yes.  prepare does that.
01:01 <@rizen> checking in
01:02 <@pbmdawg> unconditionalRead
01:02 <@pbmdawg> (also)
01:03 <@pbmdawg> WHO is danny_mk
01:03 <@GeWY> another user.
01:03 <@pbmdawg> thanks :)
01:03 <@GeWY> np
01:04 <@rizen> ok still not working
01:04 <@rizen> but at least we're past that bug
01:04 <@rizen> that one was annoying me
01:04 <@rizen> why are we asking about danny_mk?
01:05 <@pbmdawg> DBD::mysql::st execute failed: called with 1 bind variables when 0 are needed at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL/ResultSet.pm line 245.
01:05 <@pbmdawg> I just saw danny_mk go by in the svn logs
01:06 <@rizen> what did he commit?
01:07 <@rizen> he's supposed to be working on a test for Stow
01:07 <@pbmdawg> https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/WebGUI%20SVN/revision?rev=513
01:07 <@rizen> so that's probably what you saw
01:07 <@pbmdawg> https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/WebGUI%20SVN/checkout/WebGUI/t/Stow.t?rev=513
01:10 <@pbmdawg> _config is also nested twice.  _session' => bless( { '_config' => bless( { '_config' => bless( {
01:11 <@pbmdawg> oh, but it's supposed to.  never mind.
01:13 <@pbmdawg> whoa.
01:13 <@pbmdawg> progress.
01:13 <@rizen> what's the progress?
01:13 <@pbmdawg> Undefined subroutine &WebGUI::Operation::WebGUI::www_setup called at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI.pm line 161
01:16 <@rizen> i c
01:16 <@rizen> ooh
01:16 <@rizen> i just fixed the next sql bug too
01:16 <@pbmdawg> oh good.  and I fixed Operation/WebGUI.pm
01:16 <@pbmdawg> now there are problems in International.pm
01:16 <@pbmdawg> where's Colin
01:16 <@rizen> i'm actually able to pass 2 whole tests
01:16 <@rizen> in the user test
01:20 <@pbmdawg> Can't call method "user" on an undefined value at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/International.pm line 78.
01:22 <@rizen> holy crap and stuff
01:22 <@rizen> i just passed 25 of 33 tests on User.pm
01:22 <@pbmdawg> ?
01:22 <@pbmdawg> commit!!  commit!!!
01:22 <@pbmdawg> gimme gimme
01:22 <@rizen> done
01:23 <@pbmdawg> :
01:23 <@pbmdawg> )
01:26 <@pbmdawg> btw
01:27 <@pbmdawg> nowhere is $session->request->print() needed
01:27 <@pbmdawg> print() is all you need.
01:28 <@rizen> true
01:28 <@rizen> but i've been putting it in there
01:28 <@rizen> cuz it's easier to search for
01:28 <@rizen> cuz eventually it will be
01:28 <@rizen> $session->output->print
01:28 <@rizen> or something like that
01:28 <@pbmdawg> oh yeah.
01:30 < lenthamen> I fixed that Can't call method "user" on an undefined value at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/International.pm line 78. error
01:30 <@pbmdawg> nice; how
01:30 <@pbmdawg> I was just about to figure it out
01:31 < lenthamen> --- WebGUI/Form/Control.pm      (revision 521)
01:31 < lenthamen> +++ WebGUI/Form/Control.pm      (working copy)
01:31 < lenthamen> @@ -439,7 +439,7 @@
01:31 < lenthamen>                 %raw = @_;
01:31 < lenthamen>         }
01:31 < lenthamen>         my %params;
01:31 <@rizen> nice
01:31 < lenthamen> -       foreach my $definition (reverse @{$class->definition}) {
01:31 < lenthamen> +       foreach my $definition (reverse @{$class->definition($session)}) {
01:31 <@rizen> very good
01:31 < lenthamen> I'll commit it
01:32 <@rizen> here's one i'm having trouble tracking down
01:32 <@rizen> Can't call method "datetime" on an undefined value at ../lib/WebGUI/User.pm line 201.
01:32 < lenthamen> Ok, I
01:32 <@rizen> can't figure out why session would be undefined at that point
01:32 < lenthamen> 'm looking at  Can't locate object method "db" via package "WebGUI::Session::Var" at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Session/Var.pm line 154.
01:33 < lenthamen> Why don't we just make $session global... 
01:33 <@rizen> i recently made cahnges in that class
01:33 <@rizen> you should update
01:33 <@rizen> damn it len
01:33 <@rizen> that's a great idea
01:33 <@rizen> let's just make session globa
01:33 <@rizen> this passing shit around is really a pain the ass
01:34 < lenthamen> perl will get very slow because it needs to keep track of all the object references 
01:34 < lenthamen> ;)
01:34 <@pbmdawg> len:
01:34 <@pbmdawg> $self->db->quote($sessionId)
01:34 <@pbmdawg> should be 
01:34 <@pbmdawg> $self->session->db->quote($sessionId)
01:35 <@pbmdawg> I mean
01:35 <@pbmdawg> $session->db->quote($sessionId)
01:35 <@pbmdawg> in Var.pm
01:35 < lenthamen> ok, check it in !
01:35 <@rizen> could you guys help me out with that User.pm bug
01:35 < specsmu> cperl?  slow?
01:36 < specsmu> say it ain't so!
01:36 <@GeWY> USED PRL
01:36 < lenthamen> perl cant be slow because its written in C
01:37 < specsmu> PERL SLW
01:38 < specsmu> I thought of this one last night
01:38 < specsmu> IM INGR8
01:38 <@GeWY> CMPL PRL
01:38 <@pbmdawg> INBRED
01:38 < specsmu> REDNECK
01:39 <@pbmdawg> jt
01:39 <@pbmdawg> i'm confused by Var.pm
01:39 <@rizen> how so?
01:39 <@pbmdawg> the new method is putting all kinds of stuff in $self->{_var}
01:40 <@pbmdawg> but $self is a WebGUI::Session::Var object.
01:40 <@rizen> right
01:40 <@rizen> so what's the problem?
01:40 <@pbmdawg> so, the session will have $session->{_var}{_var}{lastIP} and so on
01:40 <@rizen> yes
01:40 <@rizen> but it's accessible
01:40 <@rizen> through
01:40 <@pbmdawg> ok; just checking.
01:40 <@rizen> $session->var->get("this")
01:41 <@rizen> the whole point of putting stuff in _var
01:41 <@rizen> or anything with _
01:41 <@rizen> is that it's private
01:41 <@rizen> and therefore should never be accessed directly
01:41 <@pbmdawg> ok; but just to confirm, it's {_var}{_var}
01:42 <@rizen> what are we confirming?
01:42 <@pbmdawg> my understanding.
01:42 <@pbmdawg> that there are two nested _var keys
01:43 <@rizen> it's not nested
01:43 <@rizen> $session is an object
01:43 <@rizen> that has a property called {_var}
01:43 <@rizen> that has a WebGUI::Session::Var object reference in it
01:43 <@rizen> and that object
01:43 <@pbmdawg> with you so far
01:43 <@rizen> happens to have a property called {_var}
01:43 <@rizen> that has a hash reference
01:43 <@rizen> containing other scalar values
01:44 <@pbmdawg> ok.  got it.
01:44 <@rizen> you're looking at it like a hash reference
01:44 <@rizen> rather than an object tree
01:44 <@pbmdawg> k; i see now.
01:44 <@rizen> k
01:44 <@pbmdawg> thnx
01:44 <@rizen> np
01:44 <@rizen> sorry i was questioning
01:45 <@rizen> i just wasn't sure where you were going
01:46 < lenthamen> pbmdawg: $session->db->quote($sessionId) doesn't work for me in Var.pm
01:47 <@pbmdawg> oh?
01:47 <@pbmdawg> hmm.
01:47 <@pbmdawg> is $session undefined?
01:48 < lenthamen> Hmm I've checked out a new version of Var.pm and now I'm getting an endless loop
01:48 <@pbmdawg> that would be my fault, i'm sure
01:49 <@pbmdawg> brb; dinner.
01:49 <@pbmdawg> rolling back Var.pm
01:49 < lenthamen> Well, it might just be a bug that we haven't reached before.
01:50 < lenthamen> I don't get the Var.pm error anymore.
02:00 < lenthamen> JT there's something wierd going on in Var.pm
02:02 <@rizen> it's not my fault
02:02 <@rizen> i swear
02:02 <@rizen> 2 things
02:02 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@199.107.160.242] has joined #webgui
02:02 <@rizen> a) how do i replicate the problem
02:02 <@rizen> b) how do i replicate the problem
02:03 <@rizen> and f) what is the problem?
02:03 < lenthamen> heh. The problem in on line 168 in Session/Var.pm
02:03 < lenthamen> replicate ? Just dl latest svn and start a browser
02:04 <@rizen> i just found the problem
02:04 <@rizen> fixing
02:04 < lenthamen> ok
02:04 < lenthamen> After your fix you'll get a loop I suppose...
02:05 < lenthamen> I mean, with my fix I ended up with no more RAM :)
02:05 < perlDreamer> nice work guys
02:05 < perlDreamer> you've fixed the problem I was having with the help tests!
02:05 < perlDreamer> thanks
02:06 < lenthamen> Thank you too, for writing the test ;)
02:06 <@pbmdawg> back.
02:07 < lenthamen> matt, your fix in Var.pm, line 168 should fix it but it ends up in an endless loop
02:07 <@pbmdawg> it's probably a problem with one of the things that is called upon session later in the subroutine then
02:10 < lenthamen> that was a quick dinner btw
02:10 <@rizen> var is now working
02:10 <@rizen> something else is causing the loop
02:10 <@rizen> it's checked into svn
02:11 < perlDreamer> what loop?
02:11 <@rizen> i know var is working because i can run this: use strict; use lib '/data/WebGUI/lib'; use WebGUI::Session;  my $session = WebGUI::Session->open("/data/WebGUI","dev.localhost.localdomain.conf");  print $session->var->getId;  $session->close;
02:11 <@rizen> if you try to view a page
02:11 <@rizen> you get an endless loop of some sort
02:11 <@rizen> which is why we shouldn't be trying to view pages
02:11 <@rizen> but instead be writing tests
02:11 <@rizen> for all the core classes
02:12 <@rizen> once the tests pass, then we can try viewing pages
02:12 < perlDreamer> dude, you're singing my song!
02:16 < lenthamen> I'm more of a pragmatic guy: Once we get WebGUI running your tests will also work :)
02:16 < lenthamen> Just joking...
02:17 < perlDreamer> but true
02:19 < lenthamen> Matt: Is there a Visual Studio plugin for perl so I can execute the code line by line and view the stack at that point ?
02:20 < lenthamen> hehe
02:20 <@pbmdawg> yeah; i haven't tried it.
02:21 <@rizen> gotta go, be back in a while
02:21 < perlDreamer> l8r rizen
02:22 <@pbmdawg> we'll have it all fixed up when you get back.
02:23 < lenthamen> matt: Var.pm line 170: $self->end;   causes the endless loop
02:24 <@pbmdawg> $self->delete;
02:24 <@pbmdawg> ?
02:24 <@pbmdawg> line 74
02:26 < lenthamen> Ok, I'm a bit further... In sub end $self->session->scratch->deleteAll is called 
02:27 <@pbmdawg> i can't find a ->delete method.
02:27 <@GeWY> weird
02:28 <@GeWY> Data::Structure::Util won't install without Clone
02:28 < perlDreamer> Session/Scratch.pm line 59
02:28 <@GeWY> sorry if this is not appropriate.
02:28 < perlDreamer> is the delete method for Scratch
02:28 < perlDreamer> deleteAll is right below it
02:28 <@pbmdawg> oh, then line 74 of Var.pm is wrong
02:31 < lenthamen>         $self->session->scratch->deleteAll;
02:31 < lenthamen> Just calling that cause the memory leak
02:31 < lenthamen> line 74
02:33 < lenthamen> hehe
02:33 < lenthamen> found it
02:34 < perlDreamer> what is it?
02:36 < lenthamen> Var->new() calls Var->end, which calls Session->scratch, which calls Var->new()
02:37 < perlDreamer> that's a good one
02:37 < perlDreamer> new calls end
02:38 <@pbmdawg> i'm not seeing where scratch calls Var->new
02:39 < lenthamen> Line 426: 
02:39 < lenthamen>                 $self->{_scratch} = WebGUI::Session::Scratch->new($self->var->get("sessionId"), $self->db);
02:39 < lenthamen> to get the sessionId
02:39 <@pbmdawg> that one might have to be hardcoded.
02:39 < lenthamen> yep
02:39 <@pbmdawg> $self->{_var}{_var}{sessionId}
02:40 < lenthamen> $self->id ?
02:40 < lenthamen> it is $self->getId
02:41 < lenthamen> hey
02:41 < lenthamen> that fixed it
02:42 <@pbmdawg> hmm.
02:42 < perlDreamer> I'll be back later guys
02:43 < lenthamen> ttyl perldreamer
02:44 <@pbmdawg> I'm not seeing how _sessionId is reliably set.
02:45 < lenthamen> It set in the very beginning, when the session is opened
02:46 <@pbmdawg> it's an optional parameter
02:46 < lenthamen> yeah if it's undefined it will be created.
02:46 <@pbmdawg> i don't see where
02:47 < lenthamen> ah thats another story
02:47 < lenthamen> :)
02:47 <@pbmdawg> ?
02:47  * pbmdawg is confused
02:50 < lenthamen> That's a functional bug then
02:51 < lenthamen> When a session is opened, and sessionId is undefined (which is the case for all new sessions) , then the sessionId should be generated and send back to the browser in a cookie
02:58 <@pbmdawg> hum.
02:59 < perlDreamer> just fyi, there are lots of i18n bugs, like over a hundred.  They may interfere with running WebGUI through the interface.
03:00 <@pbmdawg> k
03:04 <@pbmdawg> len:
03:06 < lenthamen> matt, when Session::Scratch->new is called
03:06 < lenthamen> shouldn't the session object be passed through ?
03:08 <@pbmdawg> i'm not sure
03:08 <@pbmdawg> why
03:09 <@pbmdawg> yes, you're right.
03:09 <@pbmdawg> b/c it needs a ->session method.
03:09 <@pbmdawg> Scratch, that is.
03:09 <@pbmdawg> b/c that's why deleteAll is failing
03:10 <@pbmdawg> b/c Scratch->session doesn't exist.
03:10 <@pbmdawg> I'll add them in.
03:12 < lenthamen> ok tnx
03:12 < lenthamen> Ive fixed lib/WebGUI/Operation/Auth.pm
03:13 <@pbmdawg> cool
03:13 < lenthamen> because it didn't compile ;)
03:13 <@pbmdawg> ah
03:15 -!- Klaus_ [n=klaus_he@p54AD2146.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #webgui
03:18 < specsmu> so?
03:18 < specsmu> why let a little thing like not compiling get in the way?
03:20 -!- Klaus_ [n=klaus_he@p54AD2146.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [SendQ exceeded]
03:21 -!- Klaus_ [n=klaus_he@p54AD2146.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #webgui
03:22 < lenthamen> Klaus: That's late for a German :)
03:24 < Klaus_> indeed, I think I will sleep tomorrw a bit longer ;-)
03:25 < lenthamen> Tomorrow ? It is already tomorrow ;)
03:25 < Klaus_> Ohh - let's see - you're right....
03:25 < lenthamen> Matt: I'm not thinking this is going to work tonight :(
03:26 <@pbmdawg> yeah.... :/
03:27 < lenthamen> I'm a bit further: 
03:27 < lenthamen> Undefined subroutine &WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::definition called at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Layout.pm line 82.
03:27 <@pbmdawg> wow
03:28 < lenthamen> Did you fix that Session->scratch thing ?
03:28 <@pbmdawg> still working on that and the sessionId thing.
03:31 <@pbmdawg> I'm having to create the var object along with every session->open.
03:34 < lenthamen> why's that ? 
03:34 <@GeWY> len: p5-libapreq2 is a pain in my butt
03:34 <@GeWY> on FreeBSD
03:34 < specsmu> how do you add a file?  I don't see any option to do so on the left.  Or is a collaboration thing?
03:35 <@pbmdawg> File Pile
03:35 < specsmu> hmm
03:35 < lenthamen> pkg_add -r libapreq2
03:36 <@GeWY> it's throwing me this 2.04 stuff
03:36 <@GeWY> that doesn't have Apache2::Request
03:36 <@pbmdawg> len: oh, never mind; you're right. I did this
03:36 < lenthamen> Apache2::Request is in libapreq2
03:37 <@GeWY> somehow... it's not... well, I'll fix it. Seems I've not much better to do. 
03:37 < lenthamen> you could also compile wre on freebsd.....
03:37 <@GeWY> lftp won't compile
03:38 < lenthamen> I did it on 6.0
03:38 <@GeWY> well, not on 5.4
03:38 < lenthamen> well, if I remember correctly
03:38 < lenthamen> what error did you get ?
03:38 <@GeWY> I have another person who's told me that it isn't installing on half a dozen linux distros.
03:38 <@GeWY> mine is something like a ; was expected.
03:39 <@GeWY> near a comment
03:40 <@GeWY> tell ye in a sec
03:40 < lenthamen> ok
03:40 <@pbmdawg> len: hold on a sec
03:40 < lenthamen> Because I thought it was just a missing dep
03:40 <@GeWY> buffer.cc 314 error: ICONV_CONST undeclared ...
03:41 < lenthamen> yeah you need to install libiconv
03:42 <@GeWY> no need to upgrade it. 1.9.2_1
03:42 <@GeWY> must obviously not know where 'tis
03:42 < lenthamen> and probably tell where to find it ?
03:43 <@GeWY> yeah. libapreq2 didn't perlclue
03:43 <@GeWY> glue
03:44 < lenthamen> do you have gettext installed ?
03:44 < lenthamen> you need that too for lftp
03:44 < lenthamen> and expat
03:44 < Klaus_> you're trying to build the wre?
03:44 < lenthamen> yeah on freebsd
03:44 <@GeWY> no need to upgrade gettext
03:45 <@GeWY> nor expat
03:46 < Klaus_> I've struggled with it on SuSE the last two weeks, now I've installed the perlmodules section by hand, I think now it works...
03:47 < lenthamen> I'm running it on CentOS 4.2 - works fine.
03:48 <@pbmdawg> me2
03:48 <@pbmdawg> len: I have to open the var in order to populate the sessionId.
03:48 <@pbmdawg> b/c in Var::new, it uses either the passed in sessionId or gets it from the cookie.
03:49 < lenthamen> session->getId also contains the sessionId
03:49 < lenthamen> isn't that redundant ?
03:49 <@pbmdawg> well, I'm starting to think that the _sessionId stored in the session object isn't the same as the wgsession cookie sessionId.
03:49 < lenthamen> huh
03:49 <@pbmdawg> (which would be weird).
03:50 <@GeWY> absolutely doesn't like apache22
03:51 <@pbmdawg> len: wait no, that can't be right.
03:56 < lenthamen> I'm going to sleep. ttyl guys.
03:56 <@pbmdawg> l8r len
03:57 < Klaus_> bye!
03:58 < lenthamen> tsjuss.
03:59 -!- lenthamen [n=len@83.116.130.37] has left #webgui []
04:14 <@GeWY> ooh. I got my 6.8.4 installed on scratch machine. I'm done. now to reboot it to win 98
04:14 <@pbmdawg> heh
04:14 <@pbmdawg> lol
04:18 < perlDreamer> 61 more bugs to go in this batch
04:18 < perlDreamer> how are things in sesson-ville?
04:19 <@pbmdawg> sessioning
04:21  * GeWY likes Morton's Hot salt for seasoning.. oh. sorry.
04:23 < specsmu> I always thought the chick on  morton's salt containers was kinda neat
04:23 < specsmu> :)
04:23 <@GeWY> WL SESHND
04:23 < specsmu> but I haven't seen her for years, I think she might be younger than I think
04:24 < specsmu> hmm...  yep.  forget it.  apparently I grew up.
04:25 <@GeWY> she's sister to the coppertone baby :)
04:25 < specsmu> lol
04:25 < specsmu> maybe I'm thinking of the land o'lakes girl
04:26 <@GeWY> may be.
04:26 < specsmu> http://www.ladyfaceconsulting.com/webgui/
04:26 < specsmu> what do you think?  good use of webgui?
04:26 < specsmu> :)
04:27 < specsmu> just need a footer now
04:27 <@GeWY> then we learn that there's that girl on the Miller beer bottle. 'cept I'm more inclined toward that St. Pauli Girl...
04:27 <@pbmdawg> yikes!  you're using my weatherdata wobject.... yours is the first site I know of that uses it
04:27 < specsmu> :)
04:27 < specsmu> seemed like a good way to fill content.
04:30 <@GeWY> CONTENT
04:30 <@pbmdawg> AIRHEAD
04:30 < specsmu> lol
04:30 < specsmu> DIPSHIT
04:30  * specsmu runs
04:30 <@GeWY> BANNER
04:31 <@pbmdawg> somehow I don't think DIPSHIT would pass the censors
04:31 < specsmu> you're probably right.
04:31 -!- GeWY is now known as crythias
04:31 < specsmu> what would be really cool is if there were a way to develop assets from inside webgui.
04:32 <@pbmdawg> now you're talking.
04:32 < specsmu> that strikes me as being the achilles heel.
04:32 <@crythias> what would be really cool is if assets were simply extensions to articles.
04:32 <@crythias> oh, yeah.
04:32  * crythias ducks.
04:33 < specsmu> the only thing about webgui I don't like right now is that there are only a limited number of assets and coding them doesn't appear to be anywhere near trivial.
04:33 <@pbmdawg> it's trivial.
04:33 <@pbmdawg> trust me.
04:33 <@crythias> well, it's not *hard* but it's certainly not trivial.
04:33 < specsmu> pbmdawg: and yet for some reason, I don't. :)
04:33 < perlDreamer> with the definition sub it's trivial
04:34 < perlDreamer> look at Article.pm
04:34 < specsmu> what I'd really like is an asset sort of like sourceforge.
04:34 <@pbmdawg> dude
04:34 <@crythias> ?
04:34 <@pbmdawg> you are on my wavelength.
04:34 <@pbmdawg> integrated with svn::web
04:34 <@pbmdawg> with all kinds of trackers
04:34 < specsmu> yes, but also with download and upload and bug tracking and stuff
04:34 <@pbmdawg> integrated forums/subscriptions.
04:35 < specsmu> I do software development and I'd like to run the whole thing from inside webgui
04:37 <@pbmdawg> dude
04:37 <@pbmdawg> dude
04:37 <@crythias> eclipse... webgui... bugtraq.... flypaper/bugzapper...
04:38 <@crythias> flypaper.
04:38 <@crythias> that's a good name.
04:38 < specsmu> pbmdawg: dude?
04:38 < specsmu> :)
04:38  * specsmu looks for his horse
04:38 <@crythias> where's my car?
04:38 < specsmu> well, I'm about to put the new site into production.
04:39 <@crythias> 1HOTCAR
04:39 < specsmu> I HOT CHK
04:39 < specsmu> (in CA you can put a heart in there)
04:39 <@pbmdawg> HOTBOX
04:41 <@crythias> FNGR LKN
04:41 < perlDreamer> !WGBUGS
04:41 < specsmu> CODRGEK
04:42 < specsmu> I should probably get a license that says LICENSE
04:42 <@crythias> MT TANK
04:42 < specsmu> IM IDIOT
04:43 <@crythias> ICE BUKT
04:43 < perlDreamer> STEAMTRN
04:43 <@crythias> VNTY PL8
04:45 <@crythias> LT ME PAS
04:45 < specsmu> hmm.  I just moved the location of the webgui root, and now the admin menu doesn't work.
04:45 < specsmu> oh.
04:45 < perlDreamer> restart the server?
04:45 <@crythias> extras
04:45 < perlDreamer> update the config
04:45 <@pbmdawg> do you mean the default page?
04:45 < perlDreamer> crythias, we need to build a FAQ bot
04:45 <@pbmdawg> !bash
04:45 <@WRE> |bash 18431| <xbain> 'statistics show that teen pregnancy significantly drops off after age 25' 
04:45 < specsmu> never mind, I goofed.
04:46 <@crythias> wth?
04:46 <@crythias> that's just ... wrong ... on so many levels.
04:46 < specsmu> is there a way to turn cache off globally?
04:46 <@crythias> guess you could symlink to /dev/null
04:46 <@pbmdawg> !bash
04:46 <@WRE> |bash 23284| (Sloth) neighbor's house power is out.. perfect time for me to kill them
04:46 <@WRE> |bash 23284| (Kirby-no-Osekkai) good idea 
04:47 < specsmu> well, time to make chili.
04:47 < specsmu> !bash
04:47 <@WRE> |bash 23427| (Amanda`) I think random orgasms would get old after a while 
04:48 < specsmu> *snicker*
04:48 <@crythias> !faq
04:48 <@crythias> How do I install 6.8.x+? Where's index.pl?    1) As always, read the docs/gotcha.txt in your distribution.  2) There *is* no index.pl in 6.8.x+
04:48 <@crythias>  http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds/6.8.3-gamma/WebGUI/docs/install.txt
04:48 <@crythias> http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds/6.8.3-gamma/WebGUI/docs/gotcha.txt
04:48 <@crythias> http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds/6.8.3-gamma/WebGUI/docs/migration.txt 
04:48 <@pbmdawg> actually Roy made it so you can add faq entries to the bot on EFNET.
04:48 < perlDreamer> I included those on purpose in the bundled docs
04:49 < perlDreamer> !pbmdawg
04:49 <@crythias> !faq
04:49 < perlDreamer> so what's so special about bash?
04:49 < perlDreamer> !zsh
04:49 < perlDreamer> !ksh
04:49 < specsmu> I like qdb.
04:49 < perlDreamer> !tcsh
04:49 < specsmu> I have a couple of quotes there.
04:49 <@crythias> How to Center coolmenu ...  From nuba:
04:49 <@crythias> Change line 151 html file to
04:49 <@crythias>  coolmenu.menuPlacement="center" 
04:50 <@crythias> !faq
04:50 <@crythias> How do I get the URL of a file?
04:50 < specsmu> well, that is a good good start.
04:50 < specsmu> time for chili.
04:50 <@crythias> ^FileURL("/url/of/upload");
04:51 < specsmu> I like boston market chili
04:51 < specsmu> YAYCHLI
04:51 <@crythias> 2SEXY4U
04:52 <@crythias> TOESUKR
04:52 <@crythias> NAIL BTR
04:53 < perlDreamer> echo "Corinthians" >> /dev/crythias
04:53 < specsmu> heh
04:53 < specsmu> SUB4ME
04:53  * specsmu rums
04:53 < specsmu> runs
04:54 < specsmu> but rums too
04:54 <@crythias> WYZ FOOL
04:55 <@crythias> Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
04:55 < specsmu> hmm
04:55 < specsmu> I worship Flying Spaghetti Monster.
04:56 <@crythias> 1 Cor. 1:20, btw
04:56 < perlDreamer> I hear the Jedi have an easier path to enlightenment
04:56 < perlDreamer> and even people who are allergic to tomatoes can be saved
04:56 < specsmu> hmm.
04:56 < specsmu> so, honest question.
04:56 < specsmu> is this a "christian" channel?
04:56 <@crythias> not.
04:56 < perlDreamer> No, it's a WG channel
04:57 < specsmu> ok.
04:57 < specsmu> I'm asking because I don't think I would be welcome on a "christian" channel.
04:57 <@crythias> just... a couple of us are, just I don't have so much fruit.
04:57 <@crythias> why does that sound weird?
04:57 <@pbmdawg> fruitless
04:57 <@crythias> yeah
04:57 < perlDreamer> Wasn't someone calling you a fruit just the other day?
04:57 < specsmu> lol
04:57 <@crythias> FRUTLSS
04:58 < specsmu> I won't go so far to say that I am anti christian, because I'm not.  But I *am* anti-hypocrite, and have had some really, really bad experiences with idiots who call themselves christian.
04:58 < specsmu> so I hope you don't get offended at a little snark if you quote the bible.
04:58 <@crythias> I'm a pragmatic Christian. Saved by grace. Jesus loves me. Everyone else thinks I'm a jerk.
04:59 < specsmu> lol.
04:59 < specsmu> I was raised in a quasi-christian cult.
04:59 < perlDreamer> crythias: I don't think you're a jerk.
04:59 < perlDreamer> If I did, I'd filter you.
05:00 < specsmu> heh.
05:00 <@crythias> I know. I saw this bumper sticker on the movie "Saved!" which, I thought was an interesting movie. It was a bit harsher statement.
05:00 < specsmu> I liked "dogma"
05:00 < specsmu> and "god, please save me from your followers"
05:04 <@crythias> CHNG LNZ
05:05 < perlDreamer> +35 BUGS
05:06 < perlDreamer> BUG FIXR
05:06 < perlDreamer> FAQDUDE
05:06 < perlDreamer> there's one for you, Crythias
05:06 <@crythias> ah
05:06 <@crythias> UR2CLOS
05:09 < perlDreamer> I wish they were the last 35 bugs.
05:10 <@crythias> Mine is NETWAGN, my wife is NETWIFE.
05:10 <@pbmdawg> mine was NTLDR
05:10 < perlDreamer> ??
05:10 < specsmu> lol
05:10 < specsmu> IBMBIOS
05:10 < perlDreamer> time to be a Daddy, be back later
05:11 <@pbmdawg> bootsector for winnt
05:11 <@pbmdawg> ntldr
05:11 <@crythias> hee
05:11 <@crythias> CNFG SYS
05:11 < specsmu> C64RULZ
05:11 <@crythias> DOS JNKY
05:11 < specsmu> UNZIPME
05:12 <@crythias> TAR XZVF
05:12 < specsmu> that's a good one
05:12 < specsmu> I have to renew next week, might see if it's taken
05:13 <@crythias> DECODER
05:13 <@crythias> DCMPOSR
05:13 < specsmu> HTTPD
05:13 < specsmu> DAEMON
05:14 < specsmu> PROC FS
05:14 <@crythias> USR HOME
05:14 <@crythias> MNT THIS
05:14 <@crythias> oops
05:14 <@crythias> sorry
05:15 < specsmu> heh
05:15 < specsmu> FSCK ME
05:15 <@crythias> apologies.
05:15 < specsmu> for what/
05:15 < specsmu> ?
05:15 <@crythias> not trying to be crude-er
05:16 < specsmu> NFS MNT
05:16 < specsmu> PORTMAP
05:16 <@crythias> BRD BSKT
05:16 <@crythias> DEV NULL
05:17 <@crythias> I think I've seen that one
05:17 < specsmu> DEV TTY
05:18 <@crythias> COM PORT
05:18 < specsmu> PCI CARD
05:18 <@crythias> AGP CARD
05:19 <@crythias> PCMCIA
05:19 < specsmu> USB STCK
05:19 <@crythias> MEMORY
05:19 <@crythias> MORE RAM
05:20 <@crythias> DBL WIDE
05:21 < specsmu> DDR 400
05:21 <@crythias> 24IN LCD
05:21 -!- Klaus_ [n=klaus_he@p54AD2146.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
05:22 < specsmu> LSRJET
05:22 <@crythias> GT CNCTD
05:23 < specsmu> ETHERNT
05:23 < specsmu> man, that was some good chili.
05:23 <@crythias> FAST LNK
05:23 < specsmu> makes up for yesterday's taco bell
05:23 < specsmu> GIGABIT
05:23 <@crythias> OC12
05:24 < specsmu> OC192
05:24 <@crythias> WEB 2PT0
05:25 < specsmu> PTR CHAR
05:26 <@crythias> OVR CLKD
05:28 < specsmu> MGC SMK
05:28 <@pbmdawg> woo hoo
05:28 < specsmu> no no
05:28 <@crythias> like that
05:28 < specsmu> WOO HOO
05:28 <@pbmdawg> 6.9 lives (more)
05:29 < specsmu> so is there a list to join that tells you when there are new releases?
05:29 < specsmu> it seems like there's a new release every few days.
05:29 <@pbmdawg> you can subscribe to the annc CS at getwebgui.com
05:29 <@crythias> yeah. subscribe to announce.
05:30 < specsmu> that part underneat with "these are the recommended packages" - what is that?  a modified article?
05:30 <@pbmdawg> where
05:30 < specsmu> in getwebgui.com
05:30 <@pbmdawg> what page
05:30 <@pbmdawg> oh
05:30 <@pbmdawg> ha
05:30  * specsmu whaps pbmdawg 
05:30 < specsmu> :)
05:30 < specsmu> THE page.
05:31 <@pbmdawg> it's an article
05:31 <@crythias> easy.
05:31 <@pbmdawg> http://www.plainblack.com/getwebgui/downloads/download-binaries
05:31 <@crythias> several ways.
05:32 <@pbmdawg> colin you still there?
05:32 <@pbmdawg> who wants to write a test for me?
05:32 <@pbmdawg> specs?
05:33 < specsmu> what kind of test?
05:33 <@pbmdawg> test the webgui codebase to see if all calls to WebGUI::Cache->new(@params) have a $session object as the first param.
05:34 < specsmu> hmm.
05:34 < specsmu> what would a $session object look like?
05:34 <@pbmdawg> nm; I already did it
05:35 < specsmu> lok
05:35 < specsmu> lol
05:35 < specsmu> took you more time to ask than to do it.
05:35 < specsmu> it does appear that it is not the case, btw.
05:35 < specsmu> ./lib/WebGUI/Operation/Cache.pm:        my $cache = WebGUI::Cache->new();
05:38 <@crythias> hrm.
05:38 <@crythias> del.icio.us link is replicating giving me more hits.
05:42 -!- pbmdawg [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com"]
05:43 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@199.107.160.242] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]
05:46 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #webgui []
05:53 < specsmu> heh, one of my favorite comedians is named colin
05:59 -!- pbmdawg [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui
05:59 -!- mode/#webgui [+o pbmdawg] by xdanger
05:59 <@pbmdawg> guess what guys
05:59 <@pbmdawg> WebGUI runs.
05:59 <@crythias> need a tissue?
05:59 <@pbmdawg> yeah
06:00 <@crythias> ooh. kewl
06:00 <@pbmdawg> hmm
06:00 <@pbmdawg> it's sending html as text/plain
06:00 <@pbmdawg> i'll have to fix that
06:02 <@crythias> When it starts sending as peanut, let us know.
06:03 <@crythias> I must be tired. my humor is changing to even weirder than normal.
06:03 <@pbmdawg> what humor
06:03 <@pbmdawg> :p
06:05 <@crythias> Hey. If I wanted your opinion, I'd give it to you.
06:05 <@crythias> :)
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06:10 < specsmu> no, it's:
06:10 < specsmu> "If I wanted your opinion, I'd beat it out of you"
06:21 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
06:21 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by xdanger
06:22 <@rizen> specs, are you still here or are you dormant?
06:24 < specsmu> I'm here
06:25 < specsmu> whazzup?
06:25 <@rizen> your name seems very familiar to me
06:25 < specsmu> it does?
06:25 <@rizen> yeah
06:25 < specsmu> real name or nick?
06:25 <@rizen> do i know you from somewhere
06:25 <@rizen> real name
06:25 < specsmu> hmm.  I've never been to illionois.
06:25 < specsmu> hmm.  I've never been to illinois.
06:25 <@rizen> have we ever met
06:25 <@rizen> maybe at the wuc?
06:26 < specsmu> no.  have you ever read a book on scientology?
06:26 <@rizen> a few articles, never a book
06:26 <@rizen> are you a scientologist?
06:26 < specsmu> "russell miller" is a famous anti-scientologist.
06:26 < specsmu> I am not he.
06:26 <@rizen> isn't that the religion where they think aliens are coming to get them
06:26 <@rizen> or something
06:27 < specsmu> pretty much
06:27 < specsmu> no, I'm not a scientologist, and I don't tolerate them, either.
06:27 <@pbmdawg> heading to bed.  hack you tomorrow.
06:27 < specsmu> seeya pbmdawg 
06:27 <@pbmdawg> lata'
06:28 < specsmu> I also did kde traffic for a while
06:28 <@rizen> ok...must just be some sort of co-incidence
06:28 <@rizen> or it could be that i'm just getting old and senile
06:28 -!- pbmdawg [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com"]
06:28 < specsmu> maybe. :)
06:30 <@rizen> so you've been hanging out here all day
06:30 < specsmu> kind of.
06:30 <@rizen> are you trying to pick up quick tips
06:31 < specsmu> no.
06:31 < specsmu> I'm just too lazy to leave :)
06:31 <@rizen> planning on joining the dev team?
06:31 <@rizen> that's pretty lazy
06:31 < specsmu> if I joined all the dev teams I wanted to, I'd have no time for a girlf... ummm
06:31 < specsmu> I'd have no time for wor... ummm
06:31 < specsmu> I'd have no time for anything fu... ummm
06:31 <@rizen> tis one of the three principles of a good perl hacker: laziness
06:32 < specsmu> I'll be back in a few mins
06:32 <@rizen> k
06:32 <@rizen> you know...joining a small team like webgui would bring more benefits than a big project like KDE
06:33 <@rizen> for one, there's a lot more to do, so you can gain more recognition faster
06:33 <@rizen> for another, you'd be appreciated a lot more, and your input taken more seriously
06:33 <@rizen> not that i'm trying to coax you or anything
06:40 <@snapcount> !heard rizen
06:40 <@snapcount> !lastspoke rizen
06:40 <@WRE> rizen last uttered a word on #webgui 7 minutes ago.
06:41 <@snapcount> interesting
06:41 <@rizen> !heard snapcount
06:42 <@rizen> !bash
06:42 <@WRE> |bash 35178| <@Deosyne> Yeah. I'm not admitting to anyone, especially my kid, that I stuck a vacuum in my ass 
06:42 <@rizen> !bash snapcount
06:42 <@WRE> !bash: no results found for search
06:42 <@rizen> that sucks ass
06:43 <@rizen> whatchudoin roy?
06:45  * specsmu is back.
06:45 < specsmu> rizen: I have no interest in ever joining kde again.
06:46 < specsmu> I just an not sure webgui is such a good fit for me either
06:46 <@rizen> why is that?
06:46 < specsmu> if I'm going to join a project, it has to be one I believe very strongly in
06:46 < specsmu> and webgui is helpful to me and I have no problems with fixing things I think need fixing
06:47 < specsmu> but it just doesn't sound like fun.
06:47 <@rizen> cuz it's web stuff?
06:47 <@rizen> cuz it's perl?
06:47 < specsmu> the former.
06:47 <@rizen> cuz i'm a jackass?
06:47 < specsmu> now that was a given. ;-)
06:48 <@rizen> yeah, if web stuff ain't your thing, then webgui probably ain't your thing
06:48 <@rizen> but the thing about that is
06:48 < specsmu> honestly, when I do web stuff it's because I have to, not because I want to.
06:48 <@rizen> that the line between web stuff and regular apps is blurring
06:48 < specsmu> I like webgui because it helps me take a shorter time to do the web stuff.
06:48 < specsmu> so I can get on with my life.
06:48 <@rizen> understood
06:49 <@rizen> so are you a user level apps kind of person
06:49 <@rizen> or a backend system type of person?
06:49 < specsmu> when it comes to web stuff, yes.
06:49 <@rizen> no
06:49 < specsmu> when it comes to linux and system stuff, I tend to like to get in as deep as I can
06:49 <@rizen> not with web apps
06:49 <@rizen> so you're an os hacker then
06:49 < specsmu> I have written some user level apps
06:49 <@rizen> that's your thing
06:50 < specsmu> klicker is one
06:50 < specsmu> but I have also written packetbl
06:51 <@rizen> that's coolio
06:51 <@rizen> like i said, not trying to coax you
06:51 < specsmu> I think it really all depends on what I'm interested in at the time.
06:51 <@rizen> especially if you're not really into web apps
06:51 < specsmu> truthfully, I don't like web apps.
06:51 < specsmu> I like apps with windows and buttons and fields and stuff
06:51 < specsmu> I don't like web apps where there's all this refreshing and reloading... it just feels wrong
06:51 <@rizen> see, that's what i want webgui to be
06:51 <@rizen> exactly
06:52 <@rizen> i want webgui to be all ajaxified
06:52 <@rizen> at least the admin level components
06:52 <@rizen> and some of the end user apps
06:52 <@rizen> one end user app in particular that i want that way
06:52 <@rizen> is a database system
06:52 <@rizen> think of it like ms access
06:52 < specsmu> what I really want to happen is, I start up webgui, say "this is how I want my website to look", and it looks like that.
06:52 <@rizen> the user should be able to design databases and data entry forms
06:53 <@rizen> all drag and drop
06:53 < specsmu> and *templates*.
06:53  * snapcount scratches his head
06:53 <@rizen> ooh
06:53 < specsmu> webgui is very weak right now in the way of templates.
06:53 <@rizen> designable templates would be the shit
06:53 <@rizen> wait...
06:54 < specsmu> I suck at web design, and anything that would make *that* task easier... well, I'd kiss you.  or your daughter, at your option.
06:54 <@rizen> weak because you have to see use html to design them?
06:54 < specsmu> ..and because there aren't any available drop-in ones.
06:54 < specsmu> as near as I can tell, webgui doesn't even *support* drop-in templates now.
06:54 <@rizen> that'll all change soon
06:54 <@rizen> we used to have it
06:55 <@rizen> and we killed it turing 6.x
06:55 < specsmu> I know, and that's the worst part. :)
06:55 <@rizen> because it wasn't implemented well
06:55 <@rizen> it was buggy at the best of times
06:55 <@rizen> and completely useless most of the time
06:55 < specsmu> in etomite, you just untar it, drop it in, and there it is.
06:55 < specsmu> and I also don't like the way each asset has its own template, and if you have a strange design, you have to do all of them at once...
06:55 < specsmu> and the stylesheets are *really* screwed up
06:56 < specsmu> someone actually specified a stylesheet in one of the templates, instead of using a <div>
06:56 < specsmu> er a <div class>
06:56 < specsmu> the classes and ids are inconsistent.
06:57 <@rizen> wow
06:57 <@rizen> it practically sounds like you hate webgui
06:57 < specsmu> well...
06:57 < specsmu> it's more like it's the best that's out there.
06:58 < specsmu> but, be honest - adulation isn't going to improve your product.
06:58 <@rizen> wasn't asking for flattery
06:58 < specsmu> good :)
06:58 <@rizen> can't stand it most of the time
06:58 <@rizen> however,
06:58 < specsmu> if I hated webgui I wouldn't use it
06:59 <@rizen> some of the stuff you're saying makes no sense
06:59 < specsmu> tell me what doesn't make sense.
06:59 <@rizen> particularly, you don't like the fact that each object has it's own template
06:59 <@rizen> if it didn't
06:59 <@rizen> every damn webgui site would look exactly the same
06:59 < specsmu> no...  I don't mind that so much.
06:59 <@rizen> and that's not a good place to be
06:59 < specsmu> what I don't like is the fact that it's hard to get to each template.
06:59 <@rizen> 2 clicks
06:59 <@rizen> i suppose we could make it one click
06:59 < specsmu> it's like there are a gazillion different templates sitting there and you have to change each one
07:00 <@rizen> yup
07:00 <@rizen> that's what happens when you break each object out with it's own template
07:00 <@rizen> make up your mind
07:00 <@rizen> you either hate it or you like it
07:00 <@rizen> it's ok either way
07:00 < specsmu> nope.
07:00 <@rizen> you're entitled
07:00 < specsmu> I just see room for improvement.
07:00 < specsmu> let me see if I can explain a different way.
07:00 < specsmu> are you familiar with etomite?
07:00 <@rizen> ok...thats' the kind of thing i like to hear
07:01 <@rizen> iv'e seen their site
07:01 <@rizen> but i've never heard of anyone using their product
07:01 < specsmu> have you tried their software?
07:01 <@rizen> no
07:01 < specsmu> well, some do, and I tried.
07:01 < specsmu> didn't much like it, mostly because it was buggy.
07:01 < specsmu> but it did have some good things.
07:02 < specsmu> one of the good things was that the templates were all completely drop-in.
07:02 < specsmu> you downloaded a template, untarred it, stuck it in there, and voila, new site
07:02 < specsmu> and all of the different assets changes too.
07:02 <@rizen> that might work great on a small site, but that would be useless to most of our customers
07:03 < specsmu> but with webgui, there was, from what I could tell, none of that cohesiveness.
07:03 < specsmu> there were a thousand different little templates that had no idea what was going on with the other templates
07:03 <@rizen> yup
07:03 <@rizen> from what i know of etomite
07:03 <@rizen> they are trying to be the simplest cms on the planet
07:04 < specsmu> yeah...  and doing a pretty good job of breaking even that.
07:04 <@rizen> nothing more important than simple to them
07:04 < specsmu> but anyway...
07:04 < specsmu> let's take that off the table right now
07:04 < specsmu> one of my other problems was this.
07:04 <@rizen> here's what i'm saying to you about that though
07:04 <@rizen> you can't do it
07:04 <@rizen> if you have a large site
07:04 < specsmu> ok, fine.  so tell me this
07:05 <@rizen> you'll likely have all sorts of assets with different templates
07:05 < specsmu> why are there templates with style elements built in?
07:05 <@rizen> for the same type of asset
07:05 <@rizen> cuz on some of them you can't get away without having something built in
07:05 < specsmu> but then there's no way to override them
07:05 <@rizen> of course not
07:06 <@rizen> the templates that come with webgui aren't designed for you to override this or that
07:06 <@rizen> they're there as examples
07:06 < specsmu> I ended going in, wiping out the styles, putting them in my stylesheet, and got it doing what I wanted.
07:06 <@rizen> for you to copy and edit
07:06 < specsmu> :)
07:06 <@rizen> that's exactly what you're supposed to do
07:07 < specsmu> hmm.
07:07 <@rizen> i understand that it doesn't make webgui as easy to use
07:07 < specsmu> what I actually did was made a "link rel" stylesheet
07:07 <@rizen> as just dropping in a new style sheet
07:07 < specsmu> pulled everything possible out of the template, and just used the stylesheet as much as possible.
07:08 <@rizen> now that sounds like a jim dandy idea
07:08 <@rizen> and you just then included that into a snippet somewhere?
07:08 < specsmu> nope.  just "link rel".
07:08 < specsmu> stuck it in a passthruUrl directory.
07:09 < specsmu> now I'll admit maybe that was missing the whole point, but it makes it damned easy to change.
07:10 < specsmu> my template has no style elements in it whatsoever and are just a bunch of <div> tags.
07:10 < specsmu> no tables, no nothing.
07:11 < specsmu> at least not in the main template.
07:11 <@rizen> sounds good
07:11 <@rizen> just told my designer to do that
07:11 <@rizen> i have him going through all the templates
07:11 < specsmu> heh
07:11 <@rizen> and making sure they are XHTML 1.0 strict compliant
07:11 <@rizen> for 6.9
07:11 < specsmu> so I actually had a good idea.
07:11 < specsmu> ;-)
07:11 <@rizen> yup
07:12 < specsmu> It does seem to me that there should at least be a single stylesheet
07:12 < specsmu> *shrug*
07:12 < specsmu> of course, you'll have to dump all the tables to be xhtml strict, iirc
07:13 <@rizen> actually no
07:13 <@rizen> XHTML does support tables
07:13 < specsmu> hmm, didn't know that
07:13 <@rizen> and we have for the most part
07:13 <@rizen> already dumped the tables anyway
07:13 <@rizen> there are only a very few templates that still use them
07:13 < specsmu> the weather one seems to.
07:14 <@rizen> i said a few still do
07:22 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@199.107.160.242] has joined #webgui
07:22 < perlDreamer> hey crew, what's up tonight?
07:23 < specsmu> perlDreamer: I'm offending rizen.
07:23 < specsmu> :)
07:23 <@rizen> you're not offending me
07:23 < perlDreamer> ad hominem, or programming?
07:23 < specsmu> then I'm not trying hard enough
07:23 <@rizen> i'm just telling you that you can't have your cake and eat it to
07:23 <@rizen> plus, we agreed on one thing
07:23 <@rizen> actually a couple things
07:24 <@rizen> cuz i also want to have a visual template builder
07:24 <@rizen> i want to add themes back in
07:24 <@rizen> a visual style sheet editor
07:24 < specsmu> I really wish webpages could get to the point where they're indistinguishable from an OS app.
07:24 < specsmu> no refresh, no cache, no reload.
07:25 <@rizen> they're getting there
07:25 <@rizen> but browser technology has to catch up
07:25 <@rizen> before you can get 100% of the way there
07:25 <@rizen> for one, we really need a way to draw arbitrary vector shapes
07:25 <@rizen> like svg
07:25 <@rizen> but hardly anything supports that
07:26 < specsmu> I made my logo with svg
07:26 < specsmu> svg seems to be a limited format, though
07:26 <@rizen> as limited as it may be
07:26 <@rizen> it's even more limiting not to be able to use ti
07:26 < specsmu> true
07:26 < specsmu> I don't think many browsers these days can even use it.
07:27 <@rizen> none can
07:27 <@rizen> without plugins
07:27 <@rizen> firefox 2.0 is supposed to be able to
07:27 <@rizen> but unless ie 7.0 does
07:27 <@rizen> it won't matter
07:28 < perlDreamer> rizen:  What's the replacement for Session::refreshUserInfo ?
07:29 < specsmu> I wish there were a Directory O' Files
07:29 < specsmu> I don't think like a FilePile
07:29 < perlDreamer> use ctags
07:29 <@rizen> $session->user({userId=>'XXX'});
07:29 < perlDreamer> rizen: thx!
07:30 <@rizen> or $session->user({user=>$userObject});
07:30 <@rizen> describe director o files
07:30 < specsmu> I mean... like an asset full of files, that an admin can add, delete, reorder
07:30 < specsmu> and that a user can download
07:31 < perlDreamer> Like a CS?
07:31 < specsmu> CS?
07:31 < perlDreamer> Collaboration System
07:31 < perlDreamer> You can build something a lot like the old FileManager with a CS
07:31 <@rizen> that's what a folder is
07:31 < specsmu> hmm...
07:32 <@rizen> a folder does everything you just listed
07:32 < specsmu> cool.
07:32 < perlDreamer> Do Folder's have the "multiple files per entry" feature that FileManagers had?
07:32 <@rizen> no
07:32 <@rizen> that was a dumb feature
07:32 <@rizen> mainly because it was limited
07:32 <@rizen> to only 3
07:32 <@rizen> however
07:32 <@rizen> folders allow for subfolders
07:32 <@rizen> which allows you to group stuff
07:33 <@rizen> when a folder asset detects that it has a folder asset as a child
07:33 < specsmu> ahh, cool.
07:33 < specsmu> it does seem that "collaboration system" seems to be a misnomer.
07:33 <@rizen> it deals with it differently
07:33 <@rizen> than a regular file
07:33 <@rizen> we had to come up with a generic term for the cs
07:33 <@rizen> because it does so many things
07:33 < specsmu> why not just "grab bag"?
07:33 < specsmu> :)
07:34 <@rizen> "related list of things manager" just didn't seem like a good title
07:34 < perlDreamer> I'll tinker more with the folders.
07:34 < perlDreamer> Thanks for the tip, rizen!
07:34 <@rizen> np
07:35 < perlDreamer> that was the only thing keeping us from upgrading.
07:35 <@rizen> your file manager assets
07:35 < perlDreamer> yeah
07:35 <@rizen> are all converted into folders
07:35 <@rizen> automatically
07:35 < perlDreamer> right, but they're flat
07:35 <@rizen> yes
07:35 <@rizen> but file managers were flat too
07:36 < perlDreamer> flat, but allowed grouping of files.
07:36 <@rizen> sort of, in a crappy sort of way
07:36 <@rizen> =)
07:36 < perlDreamer> check one out:
07:36 < perlDreamer> http://www.sunsetpres.org/women/gift/ecclesiastes
07:37 < perlDreamer> PPTs and MP3s of studies
07:37 <@rizen> i c
07:37 <@rizen> that wasn't the intended use of it
07:37 <@rizen> but i can see how it works nicely
07:37 < specsmu> heh
07:37 <@rizen> that's actually the reason i created folders
07:37 <@rizen> cuz i was sick of the limitations of the file maanger
07:38 < perlDreamer> but the update scripts don't create subfolders, so it "looks like" that feature went away completely
07:38 <@rizen> right
07:38 <@rizen> but that's because you're not using the file manager
07:38 <@rizen> how i thought people were using it
07:38 < specsmu> I see they're using a cool menu
07:39 <@rizen> i didn't know anybody was using it that way
07:39 < perlDreamer> it's manually made (the cool menu)
07:39 < specsmu> congratulation, btw.
07:39 < perlDreamer> ?
07:39 < specsmu> you found a way to get me to visit a church website without wanting to write an angry letter.
07:39 < specsmu> ;)
07:39 < perlDreamer> oh, you're welcome
07:40 <@rizen> hey colin
07:40 <@rizen> you could pretty easily modify the upgrade script
07:40 <@rizen> for 6.2.11-6.3.0
07:40 <@rizen> to create sub folders
07:40 < perlDreamer> I'll either do that, or post process
07:42 < perlDreamer> specsmu: it's running an old version of WG, 6.2.11
07:44 < specsmu> hmm
07:45 < specsmu> I was running 6.1.1 a few weeks ago.
07:45 < perlDreamer> did you upgrade to something else?
07:45 <@rizen> hey colin, if i throw a big release party in chicago, will you come?
07:45 < specsmu> tried upgrading webgui
07:45 < specsmu> I ended up having to completely rebuild a site.
07:46 < specsmu> that damn photogallery asset.
07:46 < perlDreamer> need to check with Kathy on that
07:46 < perlDreamer> I'd love to.
07:46 < perlDreamer> when would it be?
07:47 < perlDreamer> 7.0-ish?
07:47 < perlDreamer> 6.9-ish?
07:47 < specsmu> not in los angeles? :)
07:47 < perlDreamer> specsmu: I've found it way easier to upgrade with the least amount of custom code.
07:48 < perlDreamer> So I used the USS to build photo galleries
07:48 < perlDreamer> Not so fancy, but they work
07:49 < perlDreamer> see:http://www.sunsetpres.org/life/sanctuary/pictures
07:49 <@rizen> it would be 7.0
07:49 <@rizen> and no, not in la
07:49 < specsmu> aww
07:49 < specsmu> oh well, I probably wouldn't go even if it were. :)
07:49 < specsmu> <-- not a party person
07:49 <@rizen> it's going to be a geek party though
07:49 <@rizen> specs, you're also invited
07:50 < specsmu> I think the last party I attended was when I was 17.
07:50 <@rizen> it's just that i didn't think you'd come, since you hate webgui and all
07:50 <@rizen> =)
07:50 < specsmu> rizen: no, I wouldn't come because I live two thousand miles away. :)
07:50 <@rizen> hey colin
07:50 < perlDreamer> rizen?
07:50 <@rizen> specs said that webgui is a pile of crap
07:50 < specsmu> I did not.
07:50 <@rizen> but it's the best pile of crap out there
07:50 <@rizen> so that's why he uses it
07:50 < specsmu> well, you're getting closer. :)
07:51 < perlDreamer> what does that make PHP and Zope?
07:51 <@rizen> i'm paraphrasing here
07:51 < specsmu> you have the general sentiment correct.
07:51 <@rizen> i'm actually inclined to agree with him
07:51 <@rizen> it is a pile of crap
07:51 <@rizen> but it's the best pile of crap out there
07:51 <@rizen> but that doesn't mean we should rest on our laurels
07:51 <@rizen> cuz some other pile of crap
07:52 < perlDreamer> that's why we have 6.x
07:52 <@rizen> might come along and just get one turd better than us
07:52 <@rizen> yup
07:52 < specsmu> lol
07:52 < specsmu> reminds me of south park
07:52 < specsmu> it's a contest between a giant douche and a turd sandwich.
07:52 < perlDreamer> what if it wasn't bigger but just smelled worse?
07:53 < specsmu> lol
07:53 <@rizen> i think the point is
07:53 <@rizen> we know our shit stinks
07:54 <@rizen> and we're trying to correct it
07:54 <@rizen> that's what makes us different than most of them out there
07:54 <@rizen> we at least admit that we're not perfect
07:54 < perlDreamer> we could become the first CMS with a full test suite
07:54 <@rizen> hehe
07:54 <@rizen> i think bricolage has one
07:54 <@rizen> or at least a partial
07:54 < perlDreamer> With Ovid working on it, I wouldn't doubt it.
07:54 < specsmu> heh
07:55 < perlDreamer> It helps that here in Portland we have merlyn, rootbeer, chromatic, Allison Randal, Ovid, Ingy and Schwern
07:56 < specsmu> I used to live in portland..
07:56 < perlDreamer> too much rain?
07:56 < specsmu> too few jobs
07:56 < perlDreamer> I hear ya.
07:56 < perlDreamer> I'm not even a real perl programmer.
07:56 < perlDreamer> I design chips for a living
07:56 < specsmu> actually, I lived in beaverton
07:57 <@rizen> so do you think that we could use "Our shit don't stink as much as the rest of them." as a slogan?
07:57 < specsmu> works for me.
07:57 < perlDreamer> Reminds me of the discussion that we had about locations for conferences.
07:57 <@rizen> i think we're probably going back to vegas btw
07:58 < perlDreamer> it's very cost effective
07:58 <@rizen> pretty much everyone i have talked to set
07:58 < perlDreamer> and I haven't seen he Borg yet
07:58 <@rizen> said vegas was number one
07:58 < specsmu> vegas is four hours from here
07:58 < perlDreamer> which hotel?
07:58 <@rizen> i'm working on a deal with the riviera
07:59 <@rizen> but we're also looking at the orleans
07:59 <@rizen> and a couple others
07:59 <@rizen> if we're going to vegas every year, the least we can do is switch hotels each time
07:59 < perlDreamer> that's cool.
07:59 <@snapcount> heh
07:59 < perlDreamer> I live in Hillsboro
07:59 <@snapcount> micro-variety
07:59 < perlDreamer> Hey, Roy!
07:59 <@snapcount> hola
07:59 <@rizen> what's that smell?
07:59 <@rizen> oh it's roy
07:59 < perlDreamer> WebGUI
08:00 < perlDreamer> :)
08:00 <@snapcount> !bash
08:00 <@WRE> |bash 38297| [JJJTTT] what's this 707 thiong?
08:00 <@WRE> |bash 38297| [st-707-afk] oh
08:00 <@WRE> |bash 38297| [st-707-afk] that's LOL upside-down
08:00 <@WRE> |bash 38297| [JJJTTT] gotcha
08:00 <@WRE> |bash 38297| [st-707-afk] HTTP 707:  File Not Funny
08:00 <@WRE> |bash 38297| [st-707-afk] that's gonna be one of my new error messages
08:00 <@WRE> |bash 38297| [st-707-afk] well, neither of us are gainfully employed so that's what happens
08:00 <@WRE> |bash 38297| [st-707-afk] sit here and think of stupid shit 
08:00 <@snapcount> take that
08:00 < perlDreamer> okay, clue me in
08:00 < perlDreamer> what's bang-bash?
08:00 <@snapcount> it causes wre to insult jt
08:00 <@snapcount> for calling me stinky
08:01 < perlDreamer> WRE's a bot?
08:01 <@snapcount> actually, it just spews out funny stuff
08:01 <@snapcount> yeah
08:01 <@snapcount> !lastspoke perlDreamer
08:01 <@WRE> perlDreamer last uttered a word on #webgui less than a minute ago.
08:01 <@snapcount> and if you're dealing with a client
08:01 < perlDreamer> !help
08:01 <@snapcount> and need an excuse
08:02 < perlDreamer> !api
08:02 < specsmu> from bash.org
08:02 <@snapcount> !bofh
08:02 <@WRE> BOFH Quick-excuse: Party-bug in the Aloha protocol.
08:02 < perlDreamer> !commands
08:02 < perlDreamer> !man
08:02 < perlDreamer> hmmmm
08:02 <@snapcount> you know everyone asks for bot documentation
08:02 < perlDreamer> :)
08:02 < perlDreamer> It's my gig.
08:02 < perlDreamer> !backdoor
08:02 <@snapcount> so I've decided Mozilla Calendar doesn't suck after all
08:03 <@snapcount> except for the timezone thing
08:03 <@snapcount> so how's 6.9 coming?
08:03 < perlDreamer> !history
08:03 <@rizen> did switching your timezone in webmail help?
08:03 <@rizen> just checked in another test Session_Var
08:03 <@snapcount> no
08:03 < perlDreamer> nice test writing
08:04 <@snapcount> I just change them manually
08:04 <@rizen> and fixed a few more bugs whilst writing it
08:04 < perlDreamer> I'm tempted to try out WWW::Mechanize
08:04 < perlDreamer> but it wouldn't work with our javascript
08:04 <@snapcount> may the force be with you
08:04 <@snapcount> cuz I'll be over here
08:04 <@snapcount> hehe
08:05 < perlDreamer> 6.9
08:05 < perlDreamer> lots of tests being written
08:05 < perlDreamer> many of them work
08:05 <@snapcount> that's cool
08:05 < perlDreamer> matt and len were working on some infinite loop problem in the Session code, but they were using a browser.
08:06 <@rizen> that's cuz they have extreme opposition to writing tests for some reason
08:06 < perlDreamer> there's one posted outstanding bug, where i18n for database code is completely broken.
08:06 <@snapcount> for 6.9?
08:06 < perlDreamer> it's due to the change in i18n API.
08:06 < perlDreamer> no more subroutine access, object methods only
08:07 <@snapcount> I didn't realize people were posting bugs for 6.9 already
08:07 < perlDreamer> oh, yeah.
08:07 < perlDreamer> it's all development stuff
08:08 <@snapcount> I'll be on a 6.8 bug safari in a few hours
08:09 < perlDreamer> are you a late nighter?
08:09 <@snapcount> sometimes
08:09 <@rizen> POD.t is working again
08:09 <@snapcount> I just don't sleep much
08:10 <@snapcount> right now I'm trying to organize myself so I can actually accomplish stuff instead of working in circles
08:10 <@snapcount> at least MLK died so I don't have to go to school on monday :-)
08:10 < specsmu> heh.
08:10 < specsmu> if I lived in south central I'd be offended
08:11 <@snapcount> well, I'm sure he died for other stuff too
08:11 <@snapcount> I was paying my respects
08:11 < specsmu> :)
08:12 <@snapcount> hey... what's the difference in the subscribe modes for the PB mailing list
08:12 <@snapcount> I always guess and get it wrong the first time
08:12 <@snapcount> wtf is digest?  I think that's the one I hate
08:13 <@rizen> digest, i believe, is similar to index
08:13 <@rizen> except sends you the contents of all the messages once per day
08:13 <@rizen> if you want, i can get it out of the help
08:13 <@snapcount> ok... so index is the normal one
08:13 <@rizen> for the mail server
08:13 <@rizen> no
08:14 <@rizen> index just tells you who sent what
08:14 <@rizen> it's an index of names and subject lines
08:14 <@rizen> feed
08:14 <@rizen> is the normal one
08:14 <@snapcount> ok
08:15 <@snapcount> we should put a blurb about that on the page where you signup.  I tried searching google for the difference between them and couldn't find anything
08:15 <@snapcount> thx for the info
08:17 < perlDreamer> I think you're going to win our bet, JT
08:17 <@rizen> oh yeah?
08:17 < perlDreamer> yeah
08:17 <@rizen> why do you think that?
08:18 < perlDreamer> I figured that I could write basic POD for all the rest of WebGUI to make all the tests pass.
08:18 < perlDreamer> but with the 6.9 changes, I'm not so sure anymore
08:18 < perlDreamer> It's big.
08:18 <@rizen> please
08:18 < specsmu> what will 6.9 have that 6.8 doesn't?
08:18 <@rizen> all the new methods i created in 6.9 i already wrote POD for
08:19 < perlDreamer> all the POD for SQL.pm is out of date.
08:19 <@rizen> so the size of the task is no different
08:19 < perlDreamer> It's not the only stuff, either.
08:19 <@rizen> yeah, but it can be out of date
08:19 <@rizen> and still pass
08:19 < perlDreamer> that's a legalism
08:19 <@rizen> all the pod needs to be gone over with a fine toothed come in order to get to 7.0 stable status anyway
08:20 <@rizen> so just write the pod for the missing stuff
08:20 <@rizen> and you're done
08:20 <@rizen> which, granted
08:20 <@rizen> is still a lot of pod
08:20 < perlDreamer> true.
08:20 <@rizen> if you thought you could do it before
08:20 <@rizen> you should still think you can do it now
08:20 < perlDreamer> okay
08:20 <@rizen> unless you've finally seen the error of your ways
08:21 < perlDreamer> oh no
08:21 <@rizen> cuz i told you that it would be very hard
08:21 < perlDreamer> I want that daily test run
08:21 <@rizen> cuz there was so much to do
08:23 < perlDreamer> actually, I think you'll like it too, once we have enough tests written
08:24 <@snapcount> what url should I be using to browse the wrebuild folder (svn) on the website
08:25 <@snapcount> I tried replacing WebGUI with wrebuild and it got pissed
08:25 <@rizen> hehe
08:25 <@rizen> don't try and muck with the url
08:26 <@rizen> just click on "WebGUI SVN" in the crumbtrail
08:26 <@rizen> and then select wrebuild
08:26 <@snapcount> ahh
08:26 <@snapcount> oh there everything else is
08:26 <@snapcount> my eyes are opened
08:26 <@rizen> darmok his eyes wide open
08:27 <@rizen> darmok when the walls fell
08:27 < perlDreamer> darmok and gelad?
08:27 <@rizen> at tenagra
08:27 <@rizen> gelad on the ocean
08:28 < specsmu> is there a way to change page rank?
08:28 <@rizen> gelad his arms wide
08:28 <@rizen> of course there is
08:28 < specsmu> darmuk and gillard at tenagra
08:28 <@rizen> there are actually 3 ways to do it
08:28 < perlDreamer> you'd better not be reading some online script for TNG
08:28 < specsmu> lol, no.
08:29 <@rizen> do you want to do it programatically or through the UI?
08:29 < specsmu> through the ui
08:29 < specsmu> so far all I've figured is to cut and paste
08:29 <@rizen> from the inline view or in the asset manager?
08:29 <@rizen> or both?
08:29 < specsmu> inline
08:29 <@rizen> click on the class icon
08:30 <@rizen> and then select promote/demote
08:30 < specsmu> ahhh
08:30 <@snapcount> rizen: what else did you want changed with wremonitor other than logging amount of memory in use when kill is issued?
08:30 <@rizen> hey wait, he tricked me
08:30 <@rizen> he just got free support
08:30 <@rizen> someone go kill him
08:30 < specsmu> lol
08:30 <@snapcount> (please deposit $0.25)
08:30 <@rizen> that was all roy
08:30 <@rizen> thanks
08:31 <@snapcount> if you'd like to make a call
08:31 <@snapcount> oh ok
08:31 <@snapcount> cool... i had already finished that
08:31 <@snapcount> wasn't sure if I was done
08:32  * specsmu puts in a quarter
08:33 < specsmu> where should I put it?
08:34 < perlDreamer> rizen: do you know if Test::More subroutines have defined return values, for things like ok, is, isnt, etc?
08:34 < perlDreamer> I'm not finding anything in the docs, and you know Andy
08:35 -!- Netsplit orwell.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: perlDreamer, @snapcount
08:35 -!- Netsplit over, joins: snapcount
08:36 -!- Netsplit over, joins: perlDreamer
08:36 < snapcount> that was weird
08:36 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by WRE
08:36 <@rizen> no idea if they have subroutines at all
08:36 <@rizen> sorry
08:36 <@rizen> return values at all
08:37 <@rizen> i guess it would be easy enough to find out
08:37 < perlDreamer> am I still here?
08:37 < perlDreamer> bueller?
08:37  * specsmu is still looking for quarter slot
08:37 <@rizen> yes
08:37 <@rizen> they return 1 if successful
08:37 <@rizen> and 0 if not
08:38 <@rizen> yes you're here perlDreamer
08:38 <@rizen> type if you see this
08:38 < perlDreamer> specsmu:  place your Visa card on the coffee holder and then download this WMF file to have your computer process it :)
08:38 < perlDreamer> cool
08:39 < specsmu> lol.
08:41 -!- Netsplit orwell.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: perlDreamer
08:43 -!- Netsplit over, joins: perlDreamer
08:44 -!- perlDreame1 [n=colink@199.107.160.242] has joined #webgui
08:44 < perlDreame1> hello?
08:44 < perlDreame1> am I persona grata again?
08:44 <@rizen> yup
08:47 < perlDreame1> SQL.t is committed
08:47 < perlDreame1> are FormListEquiv and mandatory template variables the only two missing?
08:48 <@rizen> User.t isn't fully functional yet
08:48 <@rizen> but it's a problem with DateTime
08:49 <@rizen> so I'm working on Session_DateTime.t right now
08:49 < perlDreame1> ok
08:49 <@snapcount> farking sourceforge
08:49 < perlDreame1> I should have used a loop on FormListEquiv.t
08:50 <@snapcount> our project page is just blank
08:52 <@snapcount> syn
08:55 <@rizen> seems to be working for me
08:55 <@snapcount> r u logged in
08:56 <@rizen> no
08:56 <@rizen> doing it now
08:56 <@rizen> still not blank
08:57 <@snapcount> grr
08:57 <@snapcount> I'll logout and back in
08:57 <@snapcount> hmm
08:57 <@snapcount> only does it when I use ssl
08:58 <@snapcount> weird
09:00 < specsmu> oh, now that's interesting.
09:00 < specsmu> did you fix the attachment javascript between .3 and .4?
09:00 < specsmu> oh, wait, nevermind.
09:00 < specsmu> I'm not using konqueror.
09:00 < specsmu> :)
09:05 <@snapcount> ok... my eyes are throwing I/O exceptions and a kernel panic is likely
09:05 < perlDreame1> $snapcount->sleep
09:05 <@rizen> or better
09:05 <@rizen> $snapcount->reboot();
09:05 <@snapcount> $self->sleep('60*60*5');
09:06 < perlDreame1> open (BEVERAGE, '/dev/caffeine') or die "No caffeine\n";
09:06 < perlDreame1> $self->imbibe(<BEVERAGE>)
09:06 <@snapcount> grep /dev/blanket
09:06 < perlDreame1> $self->insert('sheets')
09:06 <@rizen> $snapcount->sleep(60*60*8) unless ($snapcount->reboot);
09:07 < perlDreame1> snapcount, mount check exceeded
09:07 < perlDreame1> proceed with fsck (Y/n)
09:09 <@rizen> i'm trying to decide whether to throw a 7.0 release party
09:10 <@rizen> or to do some sort of big shindig at this year's wuc
09:10 <@rizen> for 7.0
09:10 < perlDreame1> I like the idea
09:10 <@rizen> which?
09:10 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@199.107.160.242] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
09:10 < perlDreame1> parties
09:10 <@rizen> ok, but which one
09:11 <@rizen> some sort of after hours party at the wuc
09:11 <@rizen> or a seperate event
09:11 <@rizen> in chicago
09:11 <@rizen> methinks if we did the seperate event, it would be cooler
09:11 < perlDreame1> a separate party would be real expensive for PB and for the attenders.
09:11 <@rizen> but not many people would show
09:11 < perlDreame1> but yeah, much cooler
09:12 < perlDreame1> and PB people could probably use extra face time
09:12 <@rizen> perhaps an after hours party
09:12 <@rizen> incidentally webgui turns 5 in august
09:13 <@rizen> so we need a party for that too
09:13 < perlDreame1> :)
09:13 <@rizen> methinks rolling them all into one huge event
09:13 <@rizen> would be a good idea
09:14 < perlDreame1> yeah
09:14 <@rizen> are you coming to the wuc again?
09:15 < perlDreame1> yes
09:15 < perlDreame1> planning on it
09:15 <@rizen> we should have a party for you too
09:15 <@rizen> for all the docs and tests you've been writing
09:15 <@rizen> =)
09:15 < perlDreame1> thanks
09:16 < perlDreame1> oh dear
09:17 < perlDreame1> that put me over the top
09:17 < perlDreame1> I didn't get the form code fully sessionized.
09:17 < perlDreame1> time to do the snapcount
09:17 <@rizen> what is the snapcount?
09:17 <@rizen> sleep?
09:18 < perlDreame1> yup
09:18 <@rizen> me too soon
09:18 <@rizen> just going to finish this test first
09:18 < perlDreame1> catch y'all tomorrow
09:18 -!- perlDreame1 [n=colink@199.107.160.242] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]
09:27 -!- snapcount [n=roy@241.246.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
09:34 < specsmu> wow.  collaboration is broked.
09:34 <@rizen> howso?
09:35 < specsmu> titled link list... well, how bout I show you.
09:35 < specsmu> http://www.ladyfaceconsulting.com/home/software/downloads
09:36 < specsmu> I uploaded an attachment.. but you click on the link, it doesn't take you to the attachment.
09:37 <@rizen> is that the default titled link list template?
09:37 < specsmu> yep.
09:37 <@rizen> k, you're not exactly using it correctly then
09:37 <@rizen> what i mean by that is
09:37 < specsmu> pfft.. figures
09:37 <@rizen> it's not supposed to take you to the submission
09:38 <@rizen> it's supposed to take you to a URL
09:38 < specsmu> ahh
09:38 <@rizen> that you specify in the post form template
09:38 <@rizen> so you need to use the link post form template
09:39  * specsmu drops in a quarter
09:40 <@rizen> there actually is a reason people buy support from us
09:41 < specsmu> I know
09:41 < specsmu> I'm not trying to take advantage
09:41 < specsmu> :)
09:41 < specsmu> but I'm not tricking you, either.
09:41 <@rizen> wasn't accusing
09:41 <@rizen> just didn't know if you were one of those that think we're the evil empire
09:41 <@rizen> cuz we don't provide free support
09:42 < specsmu> no
09:42 < specsmu> I don't really know how I feel.  :)
09:43 < specsmu> I just figured if you were here, and didn't tell me to fsck off, it wasn't a problem
09:43 < specsmu> I figured you'd tell me when it got too bad
09:43 < specsmu> or if
09:43 < specsmu> or whatever
09:43 <@rizen> it's 2am on sunday morning
09:43 <@rizen> i'm here
09:43 <@rizen> you're here
09:43 <@rizen> what the hell do i care
09:44 <@rizen> i don't even mind giving free support
09:44 <@rizen> i just charge for it, cuz i have to eat
09:44 <@rizen> and pay my employees
09:44 < specsmu> I know what you mean
09:44 <@rizen> it's funny how employees get pissy when you don't pay them =)
09:45 < specsmu> I don't have any employees, but I want to get to the point where I do
09:45 <@rizen> what is it that you do?
09:45 < specsmu> computer administration, etc.
09:45 < specsmu> hosting
09:46 <@rizen> sort of a freelance it company?
09:46 < specsmu> kind of.
09:46 < specsmu> if I might make a suggestion
09:46 < specsmu> I use a web control panel called DSM...
09:46 <@rizen> dsm sux ass
09:47 <@rizen> just kidding, never heard of it
09:47 < specsmu> heh
09:47 < specsmu> well, anyway
09:47 < specsmu> they're proprietary, yes
09:47 < specsmu> but they have a subscription for about $10/mo.
09:47 < specsmu> or you can buy it outright for $150.
09:47 < specsmu> would it be practical to sell monthly subscriptions like that, even if it's just for support?
09:47 < specsmu> I'd pay that just to have a few questions answered
09:48 < specsmu> not for any of the more advanced stuff though
09:48 <@rizen> we've thought long and hard about it
09:48 <@rizen> but the problem is that it doesn't work out mathematically
09:48 <@rizen> people ask 90% of their questions in the first 1-3 months
09:48 <@rizen> so that's where our cost is
09:48 <@rizen> if we did just one month subscriptions
09:49 <@rizen> then we'd actually have to charge full price
09:49 <@rizen> like an hourly rate
09:49 <@rizen> for support
09:49 <@rizen> and it would be more expensive
09:49 <@rizen> than what we offer for 12 months
09:49 < specsmu> hmm
09:49 <@rizen> we're playing a gamble
09:49 < specsmu> well, just a suggestion.
09:49 <@rizen> it's a good suggestion
09:49 <@rizen> it gets made about every 2 or 3 weeks
09:49 <@rizen> it just doesn't work out fiscally
09:51 <@rizen> what do you charge your clients for an hour of work?
09:51 < specsmu> well, that is a variable rate.
09:51 < specsmu> but let's say $60
09:51 <@rizen> ok
09:52 <@rizen> let's say that a person might open 10 support tickets within the first month of signing up with you, cuz they're getting used to the process and what you provide
09:52 <@rizen> each support ticket takes 1 hour of your time (on average, some take way less, some take way longer)
09:52 <@rizen> that would be $600 per month for support
09:52 <@rizen> we charge $500 per year
09:53 < specsmu> hmm.
09:53 < specsmu> I'd buy it if I could afford it.
09:53 <@rizen> also, our hourly support rate
09:53 <@rizen> is $200 
09:53 <@rizen> we don't charge hourly most of the time
09:53 <@rizen> yeah, i'm sure you would buy it if you could afford it
09:54 <@rizen> but that's the cool thing about open source communities
09:54 <@rizen> we put up a public message board
09:54 <@rizen> that's free for all to use
09:54 <@rizen> and the community can support itself
09:54 < specsmu> I even answered a question on it :)
09:54 <@rizen> to some extent
09:54 <@rizen> and when people like you do that
09:54 <@rizen> that's when the community is working at it's best
09:55 <@rizen> i'm all for that sort of thing
09:55 <@rizen> i wish there were more people answering questions out there
09:55 <@rizen> then people could get all their simple questions answered out there
09:55 <@rizen> and only come to us when something really difficult or challenging arises
09:56 < specsmu> heh
09:58 < specsmu> oh well, not gonna try to figure out that file thing
09:58 < specsmu> right now, anyway
09:58 <@rizen> methinks it's time to go watch some tv to numb my brain
09:58 <@rizen> and then go to bed
09:58 < specsmu> ok
09:59 <@rizen> nice talking to you
09:59 < specsmu> see you later.
09:59 < specsmu> you too
09:59 <@rizen> thanks for the idea on the style sheet
09:59 < specsmu> yeah
09:59 < specsmu> that's a fair trade for tricking you into some answers
09:59 < specsmu> :)
09:59 <@rizen> hopefully i'll see you on here some more, with more brilliant ideas
09:59 <@rizen> =)
09:59 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #webgui []
14:31 -!- pbmdawg [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui
14:31 -!- mode/#webgui [+o pbmdawg] by xdanger
14:32 <@pbmdawg> anyone there?
15:16 <@xdanger> only me =)
16:36 -!- lenthamen [n=len@adsl-dc-2e425.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #webgui
16:40 <@pbmdawg> hey len
16:40 <@pbmdawg> webgui displays pages. :)
16:40 <@pbmdawg> (as soon as i check in some stuff)
16:44 < lenthamen> hehe that good news :)
16:44 -!- lenthamen [n=len@adsl-dc-2e425.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has left #webgui []
16:45 -!- lenthamen [n=len@adsl-dc-2e425.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #webgui
16:45 <@pbmdawg> len: wanna help me find a bug?
16:48 < lenthamen> I can help you but not right away. I'm working on something that I need to finish today :(
16:49 <@pbmdawg> oh ok :)
18:05 -!- snapcount [n=roy@241.246.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui
18:06 < snapcount> !cnlist
18:06 <@pbmdawg> ahoy
18:06 < snapcount> hey
18:06 <@pbmdawg> webgui lives.  ish.
18:07 < snapcount> new session stuff is running huh?
18:07 <@pbmdawg> yeah, somewhat
18:07 <@pbmdawg> Session::form::process doesn't work
18:07 <@pbmdawg> also we need a method in that module that returns a list of all the form parameters.
18:08 <@pbmdawg> so if you want something to work on.... :)
18:08 < snapcount> I'm working on 6.8.5 today
18:08 <@pbmdawg> oh
18:08 < snapcount> we're probably doing another release tommorow
18:08 <@pbmdawg> that'll be nice.
18:08 < snapcount> BUGKILLR
18:09 <@pbmdawg> BUGEATR
18:10 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by WRE
18:11 <@snapcount> my shit is fux0r3d
18:11  * snapcount reboots
18:12 -!- snapcount [n=roy@241.246.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit []
18:32 -!- snapcount [n=roy@241.246.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #webgui
18:33 -!- mode/#webgui [+o snapcount] by WRE
18:53 <@snapcount> I need help closing bugs for 6.8.5
18:53 <@snapcount> if anyone wants to close a few please assign them to yourself on sf
18:53 <@snapcount> (don't forget to merge the changes)
18:53 <@snapcount> :-)
18:56 <@snapcount> we're going to try and release 6.8.5 tommorow
18:56 <@pbmdawg> I think it's just me and you in here Roy
18:58 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@199.107.160.242] has joined #webgui
18:58 < perlDreamer> morning, guys
18:58 <@snapcount> you must be on the west coast :-)
18:58 <@pbmdawg> and colin
18:58 < perlDreamer> and colin what?
18:58 <@pbmdawg> nuthin
18:58 <@pbmdawg> :)
18:59 < perlDreamer> "hrm"
18:59 <@pbmdawg> [10:56] snapcount: we're going to try and release 6.8.5 tommorow
18:59 <@pbmdawg> [10:56] pbmdawg: I think it's just me and you in here Roy
18:59 <@pbmdawg> [10:57] *** perlDreamer has joined #webgui.
18:59 <@snapcount> haha
18:59 <@pbmdawg> and colin
18:59 <@snapcount> I missed your last comment
18:59 <@snapcount> I get it now
19:00 <@pbmdawg> great, now my text is red.
19:00 <@snapcount> pfft
19:00 <@snapcount> everything you say seems so important now
19:00 < perlDreamer> how's webgui today?
19:00 <@pbmdawg> WEBGUI
19:00 <@snapcount> well, that's closer to black
19:00 <@pbmdawg> webgui makes (some) pages.
19:00 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
19:00 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by xdanger
19:01 <@pbmdawg> whoozeewhat?
19:01 <@pbmdawg> syntaxCheck.t passes, mostly.
19:01 <@pbmdawg> (on my box)
19:02 <@pbmdawg> (Colin:)
19:02 <@pbmdawg> ( Colin: )
19:02 <@snapcount> okay... those colors offend me
19:02 <@pbmdawg> here
19:02 <@snapcount> does anyone know of a reason that the old url of an asset remains valid after changing it
19:02 <@snapcount> is this a feature or a bug
19:03 <@pbmdawg> jt already closed that ticket.
19:03 <@rizen> intended behavior
19:03 <@snapcount> oh
19:03 <@snapcount> I must have lag
19:03 <@snapcount> b/c I just opened sf a few minutes ago :-)
19:03 <@rizen> i just closed it 2 minutes ago
19:03 < perlDreamer> is old url persistance due to version control?
19:03 <@rizen> yes
19:04 < perlDreamer> I'm either getting to be better at guessing or I'm starting to understand WG.
19:04 <@snapcount> so are we going with Matt's new format on SF.  I like it
19:04 <@pbmdawg> rizen: we could rot13 the url property of the old revision when a new revision is created.  Then revert it if it is "reactivated"
19:04 <@snapcount> labeling things Fixed instead of closing
19:05 <@snapcount> and then closing before the release
19:06 <@rizen> what is rot13
19:06 <@snapcount> kinda like md5
19:06 <@pbmdawg> never mind.  I just mean reversibly encode it somehow.
19:06 <@rizen> i don't particularly like that new format
19:06 <@snapcount> different algorithim
19:07 <@rizen> why would we do that?
19:07 <@pbmdawg> so the old url doesn't "work"
19:07 <@rizen> we want the old url to work
19:07 < perlDreamer> rot13 = tr/a-z/n-za-m/
19:07 <@rizen> the old URL should work
19:07 <@snapcount> it's too early in the morning to discuss transliterations
19:07 <@pbmdawg> oh. ok.
19:08 <@rizen> i need you guys to understand this
19:08 <@snapcount> rizen: you don't like the new format on SF?
19:08 < perlDreamer> set your decoder ring to M and get ready for The Shadow's Secret Daily Message
19:08 <@rizen> because this question comes up a lot
19:08 <@rizen> the old URL must continue to work
19:08 <@rizen> a) because the W3C recommends this procedure
19:09 <@rizen> b) due to versioning
19:09 <@rizen> if we alter the old URL in any way
19:09 <@rizen> and someone creates a new page
19:09 <@rizen> with the same url
19:09 <@rizen> we can never roll back to that old version
19:09 <@rizen> cuz we can't recover the url
19:09 <@pbmdawg> true.
19:10 <@snapcount> so what about stale links taking people to old content
19:10 <@snapcount> just have to deal with it
19:10 < perlDreamer> just curious, how come URLs are used instead of ID's?
19:10 <@snapcount> err old versions
19:10 <@rizen> one thing at a time
19:10 <@rizen> snapcount
19:10 <@snapcount> haha
19:10 <@rizen> it's not possible to take you to stale content
19:10 <@rizen> cuz if you go to the old url
19:11 <@rizen> you're still taken to the new version of the asset
19:11 <@snapcount> oh ok
19:11 <@rizen> and if the asset is deleted
19:11 <@rizen> you're taken to the "not found" page
19:11 <@snapcount> got it
19:11 <@rizen> perlDreamer
19:11 <@rizen> i don't understand the question
19:11 < perlDreamer> you said that if the URLs were the same that the old page couldn't be accessed.
19:12 <@rizen> yes, if two assets have the same url
19:12 < perlDreamer> but the user's current version is tied to a tag, which could be tied to ID's instead of URLs
19:12 < perlDreamer> I think
19:12 <@rizen> which one do you serve up
19:12 < perlDreamer> the one for the user's current tag
19:12 <@rizen> no
19:12 <@rizen> there is no tag
19:12 < perlDreamer> which would mean a gnarly lookup
19:12 <@rizen> this is a user we're talking about
19:12 < perlDreamer> no tag?
19:12 <@rizen> user's have nothing to do with tags
19:12 <@rizen> tags are only for cms
19:12 <@rizen> CM's
19:12 < perlDreamer> okay
19:13 <@rizen> a user looks at what's published
19:13 <@rizen> they don't know about tags
19:13 <@rizen> should never know about tags
19:13 <@rizen> etc
19:13 <@rizen> let's take a different approach
19:13 <@rizen> cuz i don't feel you're getting me
19:13 <@rizen> you have a filesystem
19:13 <@rizen> on your personal computer
19:13 <@rizen> can you store two files at the same path
19:14 <@rizen> with the same filename?
19:14 < perlDreamer> no
19:14 <@rizen> that's the same reason two assets can't exist with the same url
19:14 <@rizen> the web server wouldn't know which one to serve up
19:15 <@rizen> you have to forget about versioning in this case
19:15 <@rizen> because from an end user's point of view
19:15 <@rizen> versioning doesn't exist
19:15 < perlDreamer> right
19:15 < perlDreamer> I keep thinking that there's a "RELEASED" tag that is used to figure out what users can see
19:15 <@rizen> even if there was
19:16 <@rizen> you couldn't have 2 things at the same url
19:16 <@rizen> no matter what configuration you through at it
19:16 <@rizen> ultimately you have exactly one url per object
19:16 <@rizen> there's no way to have one url point to 2 seperate things
19:17 <@rizen> i've given this hours and hours and hours of consideration
19:17 <@rizen> cuz i have some clients that insist that they should be able to rename one asset
19:17 <@rizen> and put another in it's place with the same url
19:17 <@rizen> without having to delete the old revisions
19:17 <@rizen> but any way you look at it
19:18 <@rizen> doing that breaks the versioning system
19:18 <@rizen> because it comes down to two possible errors
19:18 <@rizen> a) you can't roll back because there would be a conflicting url
19:18 <@rizen> b) you can roll back, but never with the url you originally had
19:18 <@rizen> therefore urls aren't versioned
19:19 <@rizen> if we want to make that change
19:19 <@rizen> that urls aren't versioned
19:19 <@rizen> i'm ok with it
19:19 <@rizen> but there are consequences of it
19:19 <@snapcount> rizen: do you usually do a commit after each bug fix, or just fix a bunch of stuff and then commit
19:19 <@rizen> i don't usually do anything
19:20 <@rizen> sometimes it's one
19:20 <@snapcount> play make believe with me
19:20 <@rizen> sometimes it's the either
19:20 <@rizen> are you asking me what i want you to do?
19:20 <@snapcount> just trying to figure out what other people do
19:20 <@snapcount> I usually commit after each bug
19:20 <@snapcount> b/c the svn logs are more meaningfull
19:20 <@rizen> i really don't have one way i do it
19:21 <@rizen> the only thing that i try to be consistent on
19:21 <@rizen> is that i try to list everything i did
19:21 <@rizen> in the comment
19:21 <@rizen> when i commit
19:21 < perlDreamer> time for me to head to church guys
19:21 <@rizen> what
19:21 <@rizen> church
19:21 <@rizen> on sunday?
19:21 <@rizen> you've got to be kidding me
19:21 < perlDreamer> :) I might be back later today/tonight
19:21 <@rizen> =)
19:21 <@snapcount> it's just a pain to commit after each bug when you have to merge the changes into head
19:22 <@snapcount> so I thought I'd see what everyone else was doing
19:22 <@snapcount> later colin
19:22 <@rizen> that's why i don't do it only one way
19:22 <@rizen> do what's most efficient for you
19:22 <@snapcount> aye aye cap'n
19:22 <@snapcount> yarr
19:22 <@rizen> walk the plank as you shiver me timbers
19:23 <@snapcount> so you never answered me about the SF question
19:23 <@rizen> that sounds sort of brokeback mountainish?
19:23 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@199.107.160.242] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]
19:24 <@snapcount> are we gonna change the title to fixed and close the tracker before the release
19:27 <@rizen> that's up to you
19:27 <@snapcount> okay... that's the new rule
19:27 <@rizen> but i prefer to just close them as they're fix
19:27 <@snapcount> well fuckers keep submitting dups
19:27 <@snapcount> it's annoying
19:27 <@rizen> do you really think that's going to stop
19:27 <@rizen> or even slow down
19:27 <@rizen> by implementing this rule?
19:27 <@rizen> it won't
19:28 <@rizen> people don't read the bug reports that already exist
19:28 <@snapcount> you know
19:28 <@snapcount> you're right
19:28 <@snapcount> but
19:28 <@pbmdawg> Welcome to WebGUI. This is web done right.
19:28 <@snapcount> what it will help is for developers
19:29 <@snapcount> if I see a new bug and another one with a similar desc
19:29 <@snapcount> and one has fixed in it
19:29 <@snapcount> I won't waste my time looking at the dup
19:29 <@snapcount> (or as much time)
19:29 <@rizen> like i said, i don't care what you do
19:29 <@rizen> just make sure you're doing it for the right reasons
19:29 <@rizen> and if it's to get people to stop submitting dups
19:29 <@rizen> that's the wrong reason
19:31 <@snapcount> ok... I need to think about it some more
19:31 <@snapcount> I'm on the fence again, Matt
19:31 <@pbmdawg> wutevr
19:31 <@snapcount> so jump in if you see other advantages... right now I'm inclined to just do it the way we have been
19:39 <@pbmdawg> rizen:
19:39 <@pbmdawg> rizen: in this conversion, I'm seeing a few examples of things that weren't fully migrated from pre 6.3 days
19:39 <@pbmdawg> kinda funny
19:41 <@rizen> like?
19:41 <@rizen> i'm sure you're right
19:41 <@rizen> but i'd still like to know what we missed
19:41 <@pbmdawg> uses of $session{page}
19:41 <@pbmdawg> in HttpProxy.pm
19:42 <@rizen> actually some stuff for $session{page} continued on for Style.pm
19:42 <@rizen> things like makePrintable
19:42 <@pbmdawg> 'twas $session{page}{cacheTimeout}
19:42 <@rizen> useAdminStyle
19:42 <@rizen> etc
19:42 <@rizen> oh, yeah, not that
19:42 <@pbmdawg> i changed it to $self->session->asset->get("cacheTimeout")
19:43 <@pbmdawg> err I mean $self->get("cacheTimeout")
19:43 <@pbmdawg> one of those
19:43 <@pbmdawg> :p
19:49 -!- lenthamen [n=len@adsl-dc-2e425.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
19:54 <@rizen> what we have here is failure to communicate
19:54 <@rizen> but i can't figure out why
19:54 <@pbmdawg> ?
19:54 <@rizen> running the User.t test
19:54 <@rizen> on line 201 of lib/WebGUI/User.pm
19:54 <@rizen> i get an error
19:54 <@rizen> saying that $self->session
19:54 <@rizen> isn't defined
19:54 <@rizen> however
19:55 <@snapcount> ohhhhh shiiiiiittttt
19:55 <@rizen> if i call $self->session->errorHandler->getStackTrace
19:55 <@rizen> just before it
19:55 <@rizen> then all the sudden
19:55 <@rizen> it works
19:55  * snapcount orders Papa Johns
19:55 <@rizen> why are we oh shitting?
19:55 <@snapcount> b/c I'm ordering pizza
19:56 <@snapcount> don't worry I'm sharing
19:56 <@pbmdawg> oh good.
19:56 <@pbmdawg> sharing the shit?
19:56 <@rizen> and you're eating an aweful lot of papa johns lately
19:56 <@snapcount> I'll bring it to Chicago next week
19:56 <@snapcount> hell yeah
19:56 <@snapcount> papa johns is good
19:58 <@pbmdawg> crap
19:58 <@pbmdawg> is that next week?
19:58 <@pbmdawg> oh you mean 12 days from now
19:58 <@rizen> there's a papa johns a few blocks from here
19:59 <@snapcount> well, it's next week from tommorow
19:59 <@rizen> you need not bring it with you
19:59 <@snapcount> good thing you have one close
19:59 <@snapcount> I might have withdraws
19:59 <@pbmdawg> i lived off subway and papa johns during college.
19:59 <@pbmdawg> and dirt.
19:59 <@snapcount> my dog eats dirt
19:59 <@snapcount> strange
19:59 <@pbmdawg> mine too.
19:59 <@rizen> depending upon the phase in college
19:59 <@rizen> during my poor phases
20:00 <@rizen> i'd live off of mac n cheese or potatos
20:00 <@rizen> sometimes a box of cereal
20:00 <@rizen> but when i was living large, it would be little ceasars
20:00 <@rizen> or rocky rococos
20:00 <@snapcount> ohhh
20:00 <@snapcount> little caesars
20:00 <@rizen> papa johns didn't exist yet then
20:00 <@snapcount> that was the shit!
20:01 <@snapcount> square pizza
20:01 <@snapcount> pizza pizza!!
20:01 <@rizen> do they still exist?
20:01 <@snapcount> no
20:01 <@pbmdawg> yeah
20:01 <@rizen> i haven't seen them anywhere
20:01 <@snapcount> not around here anyway
20:01 <@pbmdawg> in KC yeah
20:01 <@snapcount> lucky ass
20:02 <@snapcount> so we should disable cache on the poll?
20:02 <@snapcount> is that what you're saying matt?
20:02 <@rizen> no
20:02 <@pbmdawg> that was my suggestion, yeah.
20:02 <@rizen> i think what we should do
20:02 <@rizen> is disable matt
20:02 <@snapcount> that's what adding that method will do right?
20:02 <@pbmdawg> either that or $self->purgeCache when a new vote is submitted.
20:02 <@rizen> nope, you're going about it all wrong
20:03 <@rizen> it isn't the poll that's getting cached and causing problems
20:03 <@rizen> it's the container
20:03 <@rizen> so when someone votes
20:03 <@snapcount> the layout?
20:03 <@rizen> you need to do $self->getContainer->purgeCache
20:03 <@pbmdawg> oh; that.
20:03 <@snapcount> oh... the page is caching the results display
20:03 <@rizen> yes, the layout
20:03 <@snapcount> i c
20:04 <@rizen> very few people will ever actually see the poll itself
20:04 <@snapcount> but adding a www_view method effectively disables cache for the asset if you call that superclass method right?
20:04 <@rizen> it's the page that it's attached to that's causing the problems
20:04 <@rizen> what?
20:04 <@pbmdawg> roy: yeah.
20:05 <@pbmdawg> (when the asset is viewed alone, not in a container)
20:05 <@rizen> are you trying to solve the problem people are having, or some other mythical problem?
20:05 <@pbmdawg> he's asking what my suggestion effected.
20:05 <@snapcount> return $self->SUPER::www_view(1)
20:05 <@snapcount> yeah... I understand the solution
20:06 <@rizen> matt
20:06 <@rizen> need your help
20:06 <@snapcount> I'm asking about Matts suggestion and what effect it would have
20:06 <@pbmdawg> riven: ok
20:06 <@rizen> can you run User.t
20:06 <@pbmdawg> rivet:
20:06 <@pbmdawg> rizen
20:06 <@snapcount> ribbet
20:06 <@rizen> and help me get past this bug
20:06 <@pbmdawg> ok
20:06 <@rizen> it's been plaguing my soul for 2 days now
20:07 <@pbmdawg> did you update recently?
20:07 <@rizen> yes
20:07 <@pbmdawg> what's the command again?
20:08 <@pbmdawg> (can't remember the filename of the dev config file)
20:08 <@pbmdawg> nm; got it
20:08 <@snapcount> dev.localhost.localdomain.conf
20:09 <@pbmdawg> test 26, right?
20:09 <@rizen> perl User.t --configFile=dev.localhost.localdomain.conf 
20:09 <@rizen> it's whatever your config file is
20:09 <@rizen> yes, it appears to be test 26
20:09 <@rizen> gives you an error for line 201 of User.pm
20:12 <@pbmdawg> got farther
20:12 <@pbmdawg> line 134 of User.pm needs to be   foreach my $groupId (@{$self->getGroups}) {
20:13 <@rizen> coolio
20:13 <@rizen> ok, i'll take it from here
20:13 <@rizen> thanks for your help
20:13 <@rizen> that is
20:13 <@snapcount> ok... so I'm a little confused on OO Perl
20:13 <@rizen> unless you want to help with the rest
20:13 <@rizen> to get this test going
20:14 <@snapcount> if you call a method that is not defined in a class, does it start looking in the super class for it?
20:14 <@snapcount> and on up the hierarchy?
20:14 <@snapcount> so if it's not defined in Poll, will it look for that method in Asset?
20:15 <@rizen> yes
20:15 <@snapcount> then why do you use SUPER? to override a local class method
20:15 <@rizen> SUPER allows you to call the parent's method
20:16 <@rizen> from the child
20:16 <@snapcount> ok.
20:17 <@pbmdawg> rizen:
20:17 <@pbmdawg> let me check in a bunch of changes
20:17 <@rizen> fixed the auth error
20:17 <@pbmdawg> hold on a sec
20:17 <@rizen> on to the next one
20:17 <@rizen> i just did too
20:17 <@rizen> so you should update
20:17 <@pbmdawg> k
20:20 <@pbmdawg> committed... update everyone
20:20 <@rizen> moldy buckets
20:20 <@rizen> you've been holding out on us
20:20 <@pbmdawg> yay; the_latest_news works
20:21 <@pbmdawg> moldy buckets?
20:21 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
20:21 -!- mode/#webgui [+o crythias] by xdanger
20:21 <@snapcount> hey gerald
20:21 <@snapcount> welcome to the circus
20:21 <@crythias> hello
20:21 <@rizen> gerald
20:21 <@crythias> what's new?
20:21 <@rizen> matt has been holding out on us
20:21 <@crythias> oh?
20:21 <@rizen> could you please shame and scorn him?
20:22  * pbmdawg is confused/shamed/scorned
20:22 <@snapcount> yeah... he has a little caesars where he lives and has told no one.
20:22  * crythias is so confused.
20:22 <@crythias> what's the big deal?
20:23 <@pbmdawg> I have a severe taste/smell/though aversion to Godfather's Pizza, by the way.  Even just driving by the one near my house causes me to barf a little.
20:23 <@crythias> PIZZA X2
20:23 <@pbmdawg>  /thought
20:23 <@pbmdawg> rizen: wtf are you talking about
20:23 <@rizen> i'm saying that you were holding out on us
20:24 <@rizen> you just committed
20:24 <@rizen> and there were about 20 files in that commit
20:24 <@crythias> oh.
20:24 <@rizen> you've had fixed all this time
20:24 <@rizen> and left us out in the cold
20:24 <@pbmdawg> oh; yeah.
20:24  * snapcount hands rizen a rattle
20:24 <@pbmdawg> but you guys are doing test-oriented fixing. :)  
20:24 <@rizen> only me and colin
20:24 <@rizen> everyone else is doing brute force fixing
20:24  * crythias hands pbmdawg an ID10T award.
20:25 <@pbmdawg> that's like rear door entry.  I'm working from apache
20:26 <@pbmdawg> wel,
20:26 <@pbmdawg> to be honest I've been using syntaxCheck.t for the past few hours
20:26 <@pbmdawg> which Colin generously wrote a while back.
20:27 <@pbmdawg> hey rizen: what do I do with $session{whatNext}
20:27 <@pbmdawg> stow?
20:27 <@rizen> no idea
20:27 <@rizen> don't know what it's used for
20:27 <@rizen> since you didn't provide any context
20:27 <@pbmdawg>      if ($self->session->form->process("fid") eq "new") { # hack to get proceed to work.
20:27 <@pbmdawg>           $session{whatNext} = $self->session->form->process("proceed");
20:27 <@pbmdawg>      } else { $session{whatNext} = "nothing"; }
20:28 <@pbmdawg> in DataForm::processPropertiesFromFormPost
20:28 <@rizen> that looks like a stow to me
20:28 <@pbmdawg> k.
20:29 <@pbmdawg> for all of our benefit, what is the difference between stow and scratch
20:29 <@crythias> one of them survives session->destroy.
20:30 <@snapcount> which one survives?
20:30 <@snapcount> stow
20:30 <@pbmdawg> no, scratch survives.
20:30 <@rizen> scratch
20:30 <@rizen> stow is for the request only
20:30 <@snapcount> ahh
20:30 <@rizen> it dies at session->close
20:33 <@snapcount> svn is slooooowwww
20:34 <@snapcount> its my dev server
20:34 <@snapcount> its a POS... its like "ummfff"
20:34 <@pbmdawg> hummm
20:43 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #webgui []
20:45 <@crythias> SLOSRVR
20:46 -!- chansen [n=chansen@h106n2c1o1099.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #webgui
20:47 <@pbmdawg> welcome chansen
20:48 < chansen> thanks pbmdawg :)
20:51 <@snapcount> syn
20:51 <@pbmdawg> ack
20:51 <@snapcount> thank you
20:51 <@snapcount> i thought i was dead
20:51 < chansen> is SVN::web running in a non persistent CGI env?
20:51 < chansen> .. painfully slow
20:52 <@pbmdawg> no it's mod_perl.  on a celeron 233
20:52 <@snapcount> it's not just me
21:03 < chansen> May I make a few suggestion regarding your testsuit?
21:05 < chansen> I'll do it anyway ;)
21:05 < chansen> Create a common t/lib/Test.pm or WebGUI::Test instead of duping code thats required for each test
21:05 <@pbmdawg> feel free to do it :)
21:05 <@pbmdawg> do you have commit access?
21:05 < chansen> I use to have ;)
21:06 < chansen> 2) line up things for readability, eg: http://rafb.net/paste/results/2hGUB956.txt
21:08 <@crythias> AYT
21:09 < chansen> another common way is : http://rafb.net/paste/results/fDIYhZ84.txt
21:10 < chansen> if column width is important, I prefer the "table" layout
21:30 <@pbmdawg> everyone update; more changes in SVN.
21:45 <@snapcount> is anyone else on 6.8.5 right now
21:45 <@snapcount> or is this a 6.9 party
21:46 <@snapcount> !lastheard pbmdawg
21:46 <@snapcount> great
21:46 <@snapcount> wre is b0rk3d again
21:52 < chansen> WebGUI::Session::Env.pm 69: if ($var eq "REMOTE_ADDR" && $self->{_env}{HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR} ne "") {
21:52 < chansen> very dangerous, any one set that header
21:52 < chansen> should only trust a defined pool of ip's
21:57 -!- Klaus_ [n=klaus_he@p54AD0F48.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #webgui
21:57 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
21:57 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by xdanger
21:59 <@snapcount> matt: is the calendar supposed to support viewing months earlier than the current one
21:59 <@snapcount> i.e., past events
21:59 <@pbmdawg> it's complicated.
21:59 <@snapcount> ok... is it a feature request or a bug?
22:00 <@pbmdawg> it's a bug.  and I thought I had assigned it to me..
22:00 <@pbmdawg> maybe I didn't.
22:00 <@snapcount> nope... i'll assign it to you
22:00 <@pbmdawg> sry about that
22:00 <@snapcount> np
22:02 <@pbmdawg> I'll get all of those assigned to me fixed this evening.
22:02 <@snapcount> sweet
22:02 <@snapcount> thats awesome
22:05 <@rizen> are we on schedule for the release tommorrow?
22:07 <@rizen> i hear crickets chirping
22:07 < chansen> rizen: did you see the bug (serious) that i reported just before you joined?
22:08 <@rizen> nope
22:08 <@rizen> let me go look
22:08 < chansen> [20:52] 	<chansen>	WebGUI::Session::Env.pm 69: if ($var eq "REMOTE_ADDR" && $self->{_env}{HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR} ne "") {
22:08 < chansen> [20:52] 	<chansen>	very dangerous, any one set that header
22:08 < chansen> [20:52] 	<chansen>	should only trust a defined pool of ip's
22:08 <@snapcount> rizen: so far so good
22:11 <@pbmdawg> snapcount: that's not a 'yes/commitment' :p
22:11 <@snapcount> I'm committed
22:11 <@snapcount> whether or not I'll have them all fixed
22:11 <@snapcount> well, that's another matter
22:11 <@rizen> i don't see this bug out on the bug list
22:11 <@rizen> or are you just saying you said that on here?
22:12 <@rizen> regardless
22:12 <@rizen> it's not dangerous
22:13 <@rizen> because webgui is designed to be sitting behind a reverse proxy
22:13 <@rizen> as is set up in the wre
22:13 <@rizen> and the reverse proxy will be setting that variable
22:13 < chansen> Well you can spoof any system that has no reverse proxy
22:13 <@rizen> understood
22:13 <@rizen> but you HAVE to use a reverse proxy
22:14 <@rizen> once i rewrite the docs for 7.0
22:14 <@rizen> the install instructions will tell you specifically
22:14 <@rizen> to set up either mod_proxy
22:14 <@rizen> or squid
22:14 <@rizen> in front of webgui
22:14 < chansen> I familiar with _large_ deployments, especially with MP1/2 ;)
22:15 <@rizen> more specifically, we want to encourage everyone
22:15 <@rizen> to use the wre
22:15 <@rizen> i do agree that if it isn't set up with a reverse proxy
22:15 <@rizen> this will be dangerous
22:15 <@snapcount> rizen: [ 1403347 ] Proxy Not Working
22:15 <@snapcount> do we have access to her site b/c I can't dup this
22:15 <@rizen> how dangerous depends upon how you have your install set up
22:16 <@rizen> like if you're using ip based groups
22:16 <@rizen> this could be very dangrous
22:16 <@rizen> yes
22:16 <@rizen> i'll im you seperately roy
22:16 <@snapcount> cool
22:18 < chansen> FWIW, That kind of bug will easily get a popular product on bugtraq  
22:19 <@rizen> tell me this
22:19 <@rizen> what would you do about it?
22:19 <@rizen> how would you fix this "bug"
22:20 < chansen> you verify remote_ip before accepting X-Forward-For header
22:20 <@rizen> and how do you verify remote_ip?
22:20 <@snapcount> matt: did you fix this? Because it's working on her website also
22:20 <@pbmdawg> did I fix what
22:20 < specsmu> hmm, gack.
22:21 < chansen> rizen: remote_ip is your reverse proxy
22:21 < specsmu> I'm not sure I can use squid.
22:21 <@rizen> i understand that
22:21 <@rizen> but how do you verify it?
22:21 <@snapcount> matt: proxy issue on tiffany's site
22:21 <@pbmdawg> roy: no
22:21 < chansen> rizen: define a CIDR address in config and validate remote_ip against that
22:22 <@snapcount> okay... I guess it fixed its self somehow or this chick is challenged
22:22 < chansen> rizen: I have some code for that, let me see if i can find it
22:23 <@snapcount> rizen: I'm going to close this.  It works on her website best I can tell.
22:23 <@rizen> it wasn't working
22:23 <@rizen> when i tried it last
22:23 <@snapcount> I just got a listing of homes
22:24 <@snapcount> can you help me dup it?
22:24 <@rizen> ok, first of all
22:24 <@rizen> that's not working
22:24 <@rizen> because it's supposed to show stuff inline
22:24 <@rizen> in her page
22:24 <@rizen> and it's taking you to another page
22:25 <@rizen> also
22:25 <@crythias> wow. Colts scored.
22:25 <@rizen> the one about http://www.salestraq.com/las_vegas/newhomesearch/start.cfm?id=3037&RealtorURL=http://www.lasvegasrealestatebybobbi.com
22:25 <@rizen> isn't working
22:26 <@snapcount> I tried that URL on my sys and it's telling me only authorized users can use the system
22:26 <@snapcount> but it does it from the proxy
22:26 <@rizen> http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1137356763_844/home
22:27 <@rizen> it tells you "An error was encountered while processing your request."
22:27 <@snapcount> and to contact Larry Murphey
22:27 <@snapcount> ok... i see that
22:27 <@snapcount> only happens with url rewriting on
22:28 <@rizen> yeah
22:28 <@rizen> but that's what's supposed to work
22:29 <@rizen> for that matter
22:29 < chansen> rizen: pseudo code, but should give you the picture: http://rafb.net/paste/results/vGCu9X57.txt
22:29 <@rizen> you can't even proxy googl
22:29 <@rizen> http://demo.plainblack.com/demo1137356763_844/site_map
22:30 <@rizen> thanks for that chansen
22:30 < chansen> rizen: np :)
22:30 <@rizen> i'll look it over and figure out how to integrate it
22:34  * chansen goes back to hack on Authen::Simple
22:35 < chansen> which btw might be a nice auth framework for WebGUI
22:35 < chansen> http://search.cpan.org/~chansen/
22:39 <@rizen> hmmm
22:39 <@rizen> there seems to be a bit of self promotion going on here
22:39 <@rizen> chris
22:40 < chansen> no, seriously not, I just thought you could benefit from it
22:40 < chansen> I don't care if you use it or not
22:40 <@rizen> actually, i would love a better auth framework
22:40 <@rizen> but i have a question
22:41 < chansen> ok, just ask :)
22:41 <@rizen> will this work through form based auth
22:41 <@rizen> or does it require basic http auth?
22:42 < chansen> no, it does not require form or http auth :)
22:42 <@rizen> awesome
22:42 <@rizen> next question
22:42 <@rizen> how can i con you into putting this into webgui for us?
22:43  * specsmu giggles
22:43 < specsmu> rizen: you are so subtle.
22:43 < chansen> I can have a take/look at it ~ 1-2 weeks
22:44 <@rizen> i don't really have time to be subtle or to play games
22:44 < specsmu> your middle name is subtle... and your first name is "not".
22:44 <@rizen> hehe
22:44 <@rizen> the thing is, stuff will get done faster if there are more people working
22:45  * pbmdawg sheds a tear
22:45 <@rizen> i've already got 10,000 things on my plate
22:45 < chansen> Just need to do some performance enhancements, Authen::Simple::Cache and Authen::Simple::LoginAttempts. Then I can have go on it :)
22:45 <@rizen> awesome
22:45 <@rizen> i'd really appreciate it
22:45 <@rizen> and i'm sure tha tthe rest of the webgui community would too
22:47 < chansen> cool :)
22:47 <@rizen> we needed this module 5 years ago
22:47 <@rizen> when i started webgui
22:48 <@rizen> =)
22:49 < chansen> You can use _all_ Authen::Simple packages as PerlAuthenHandlers if you need something pronto
22:50 < chansen> MP13/MP19/MP2
22:51 <@rizen> webgui 6.9 will be coming out around April 1
22:51 <@rizen> that's supposed to be the last of the webgui api changes
22:51 <@rizen> so if we're going to do this
22:51 <@rizen> it needs to be done before then
22:52 <@rizen> otherwise, it will have to wait for 3 years
22:52 <@rizen> until the next api revamp
22:52 < chansen> ok, plenty of time I think :)
22:53 < chansen> There is already an way to introspect required args/options for each Authen::Simple package
22:53 <@rizen> will webgui be the first major project to make use of these modules?
22:53 <@rizen> i noticed that they just came out this year
22:55 < chansen> No, Catalyst and there is an package on CPAN HTTP::Server::Simple::Authen that uses it, written by miyagawa
22:55  * chansen is also a core developer on Catalyst project
22:55 <@rizen> i c
22:57 <@snapcount> I have to go do some yardwork
22:57 <@snapcount> if someone would like to troubleshoot the proxy but that would make me all warm and fuzzy inside
22:58 <@snapcount> er bug
22:58 <@snapcount> not but
22:58 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #webgui []
22:58 <@crythias> Colts scored. 16:21
22:59 < chansen> snapcount: what kind issues are you having?
22:59 <@crythias> 2 point conversion
22:59 <@pbmdawg> all: You're not gonna believe this.
22:59 <@crythias> Pit: 21 Ind: 18
23:00 <@pbmdawg> WebGUI 6.9 now is fully syntactically compilable.
23:00 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
23:00 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by xdanger
23:00 <@crythias> the svn or your hidden version, Matt?
23:00 <@pbmdawg> my hidden
23:00 <@pbmdawg> about to be svn
23:01 <@crythias> JT missed: (15:58:33) pbmdawg: all: You're not gonna believe this.
23:01 <@crythias> (15:58:50) pbmdawg: WebGUI 6.9 now is fully syntactically compilable.
23:01 <@pbmdawg> ps. so nobody break it!  ;)
23:01 <@rizen> i'm planning on breaking the hell out of it
23:02 <@pbmdawg> I figured.
23:02 <@pbmdawg> no more of your nasty regexes
23:02 <@crythias> I heard that WebGUI is going to be C compiled binary only.
23:02 <@pbmdawg> https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/WebGUI%20SVN/revision?rev=564
23:03 <@rizen> my nasty regexes are the reason we are as far as we are
23:04 <@pbmdawg> yes I know; I was just ribbing you.
23:04 <@pbmdawg> but for the sake of everyone else - rizen's regex code changers were a great start.
23:07 <@pbmdawg> whee; another create.sql url works - site_map
23:08 <@pbmdawg> progress is being made.
23:08 <@rizen> matt, you're really rocking and rolling
23:08 <@rizen> nice job
23:08 <@pbmdawg> thnx
23:09 <@pbmdawg> taking our mullet to the dog park for a coupla hours.  bbl.
23:10 -!- pbmdawg is now known as pbdawg_afk
23:10 -!- pbdawg_afk is now known as pbmdawg_afk
23:11 <@pbmdawg_afk> one last thing before I go
23:11 <@crythias> wow
23:11 <@crythias> steelers sacked manning at Colts 2
23:11 <@pbmdawg_afk> I dare say that 6.9 *feels* significantly faster... who knows if it actually is.
23:12 <@pbmdawg_afk> crythias: is that the superbowl?
23:12 <@crythias> no.
23:12 <@crythias> it's conference playoffs
23:13 <@crythias> oh my gosh
23:13 <@crythias> steelers fumbled!
23:13 <@pbmdawg_afk> bbl
23:13 <@crythias> Colts regained possession
23:13 <@crythias> Colt's 42
23:14 <@crythias> 1:09 left in game
23:14 <@crythias> Pit 36yl
23:14 <@crythias> 31 seconds
23:15 <@crythias> 2nd & 2
23:16 <@crythias> incomplete
23:16 <@crythias> 3rd and 2 steelers 32
23:17 <@crythias> 4th and 2 steelers 32 Pit 21, Ind18
23:17 <@crythias> 46 yard FG attempt. TO called.
23:17 < chansen> pbmdawg_afk: And it can be made faster, drop %ENV and use native mp API, makes a difference. shortcut PerlTransHandler,. A couple of ideas out of my head. 
23:18 <@crythias> 21 seconds left.
23:18 <@crythias> no good fg
23:18 <@crythias> wide right
23:18 <@crythias> flag on play
23:19 <@crythias> unsportsmanlike conduct ...
23:20 <@crythias> no affect on play.
23:20 <@crythias> 11 seconds. Pit 21 Ind 18
23:21 <@crythias> Steelers have the ball. Looks like it's *really* over for the colts.
23:21 <@rizen> ok cosell
23:21 <@crythias> sorry.
23:22 <@rizen> are you a colts or steelers or just general football fan?
23:22 <@crythias> um. I actually don't like sports. But I was interested to see if the Colts could come through.
23:55 <@snapcount> whoa
23:56 <@snapcount> nice play by play
23:56 <@snapcount> *crythias changes nick to dick_vitel
--- Day changed Mon Jan 16 2006
00:08 -!- Klaus_ [n=klaus_he@p54AD0F48.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit []
00:18 <@snapcount> does anyone know what this means?
00:18 <@snapcount> Can't locate auto/Apache2/Request/tmpFileName.al
00:19 <@snapcount> is this just a path to a file
00:24 < chansen> No, you are probably calling an non existent method name. Autosplit (XS) creates .al files that are loaded on runtime when needed, think AUTOLOAD
00:30 <@snapcount> thx
00:31 -!- specsmu [n=rmiller@ppp-71-128-23-212.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has left #webgui []
00:33 <@pbmdawg_afk> hey, i'm gonna work on upgrade.pl and the other sbin scripts
00:33 <@pbmdawg_afk> so nobody else do that
00:37 <@snapcount> ok
00:37 <@snapcount> I think I know what the fark is wrong
00:38 <@snapcount> now I have to figure out how to fix the beeotch
00:44 < chansen> ModPerl::MethodLookup is very useful if you are unsure which package provide xyz method
00:44 < chansen> example:
00:44 < chansen> mundus:~ chansen$ perl -MModPerl::MethodLookup -e print_method pnotes
00:44 < chansen> To use method 'pnotes' add:
00:44 < chansen>         use Apache2::RequestUtil ();
00:45 < chansen> see man ModPerl::MethodLookup for more commands
00:48 <@snapcount> thx
00:48 <@snapcount> that may come in handy
00:50 < chansen> :)
00:50 < chansen> This is also very handy during development:
00:50 < chansen> <Perl>use ModPerl::MethodLookup; ModPerl::MethodLookup::preload_all_modules();</Perl>
00:51 < chansen> Loads whole Apache2:: packages, so you can focus on getting the job done and later performance.
00:57 <@pbmdawg_afk> crythias: you there?
00:58 -!- pbmdawg_afk is now known as pbmdawg
01:14 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@199.107.160.242] has joined #webgui
01:14 <@snapcount> this is driving me nuts
01:15 <@pbmdawg> hi colin
01:15 < perlDreamer> hey, guys!
01:15 <@pbmdawg> svn update
01:16 < perlDreamer> already did
01:16 < perlDreamer> it broke a test
01:16 <@pbmdawg> :)
01:16 < perlDreamer> what's happenin?
01:16 <@pbmdawg> where'd it break a test
01:16 <@pbmdawg> not much here.
01:16 <@pbmdawg> i'm working on upgrade.pl
01:16 < perlDreamer> Macro.t
01:16 <@snapcount> well, I'm about to take a long walk off of a short pier
01:17 < perlDreamer> Processing failed on macro: ^AssetProxy(getting_started);: Can't call method "param" on an undefined value at ../lib/WebGUI/Form/Control.pm line 400.
01:17 < perlDreamer> line 400 is in getValueFromPost
01:17 < perlDreamer> I have no idea how that got called.
01:18 <@pbmdawg> weird.
01:18 < perlDreamer> whatcha doin', Roy?
01:18 <@pbmdawg> debugging an httpproxy issue
01:19 <@rizen> have you ever worked on a single bug all damn day long and gotten no where?
01:19 <@rizen> i hate that
01:19 < perlDreamer> I hate that too
01:19 <@pbmdawg> yeah.
01:19 < perlDreamer> if I had more time, I'd offer to switch
01:19 < perlDreamer> sometimes that helps
01:19 < perlDreamer> maybe if you talked it through?
01:20 <@snapcount> ok
01:20 <@snapcount> we'll try that
01:20 <@snapcount> the proxy wobject is breaking when it trys to post form variables and return them
01:20 <@snapcount> in the wg.log file
01:20 < perlDreamer> form variables, you say?
01:21 <@snapcount> it's bitching about line 248
01:21 <@snapcount> which trys to create a temporary file
01:21 <@snapcount> my $uploadFile = $session{req}->tmpFileName($session{form}{'HttpProxy_'.$input_name});
01:21 <@snapcount> this call is generating this message
01:22 < perlDreamer> 6.8?
01:22 < chansen> tmpFileName isa CGI.pm method, IIRC
01:22 <@snapcount> Can't locate auto/Apache2/Request/tmpFileName.al
01:22 <@snapcount> yes 6.8
01:22 <@snapcount> at first I thought it might have been len's code
01:22 <@snapcount> b/c this appeared after 6.8.4
01:22 <@snapcount> but I changed it back and the bug persisted
01:23 <@snapcount> all I have figured out so far is that $session{req} is an Apache2::Request object
01:24 <@snapcount> I don't know much about WG at this level so I'm struggling
01:24 <@snapcount> but learning quite a bit
01:24 < perlDreamer> what chansen said is right
01:24 <@snapcount> this method doesn't exist in Apache2?
01:24 < chansen> no
01:24 < perlDreamer> It's not in Apache2::Request
01:24 < perlDreamer> there must be a replacement/alternative
01:25 <@pbmdawg> Apache2::Upload
01:25 <@pbmdawg> merges into the Apache2::Request namespace
01:25 < perlDreamer> right idea, wrong module
01:25 < perlDreamer> it returns the name of "the" tempfile used for uploading
01:26 < perlDreamer> but I don't think it will generate temporary filenames
01:26 < chansen> my $upload = $r->upload('name');
01:26 < chansen> $upload is a object
01:26 <@pbmdawg> chansen: is $r the Apache2::Request object, or the RequestRec object?
01:27 < chansen> both ;)
01:27 < chansen> A2::Request isa subclass of A2::RRec
01:28 < chansen> when you call A2::Request->new($r) is re bless the object
01:28 < chansen> or that was MP1, ..
01:28 < chansen> but it does not matter, it takes the same methods
01:29 < chansen> snapcount: you probably want : you probably want my $uploadFile = $session{req}->upload($session{form}{'HttpProxy_'.$input_name})->tempname;
01:30 < chansen> That is one ugly cryptic line ;)
01:30 <@snapcount> ok.. for my benifit
01:30 <@snapcount> what you're saying is that because CGI.pm has been replaced by Apache2
01:31 <@snapcount> the method tmpFileName no longer exists
01:31 <@snapcount> and has a replacement called upload
01:31 <@snapcount> right?
01:31 <@pbmdawg> snapcount: if you dare, take a look at WebGUI::Storage::addFileFromFormPost
01:32 <@snapcount> thanks matt, I'll take a look
01:32 <@pbmdawg> it's somewhat convoluted for various reasons (:P)
01:32 <@pbmdawg> but, as of 6.8.5, it will work again (as expected).
01:32 < chansen> snapcount: yes
01:34 <@pbmdawg> in 6.9, it looks like this
01:34 < perlDreamer> there's another patch.  More of the list type Form elements should work now
01:34 < perlDreamer> back to the toilet, I'll be back later
01:34 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@199.107.160.242] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]
01:36 <@snapcount> foreach my $upload ($session{req}->upload($formVariableName)) {
01:36 <@snapcount> why is this in a foreach
01:36 <@snapcount> what causes it to return multiple files?  they are not passed into the method
01:36 < chansen> It's context sensitive
01:37 < chansen> you can have several upload files with same input name
01:37  * snapcount reads the docs on upload
01:38 < chansen> libapreq's docs suxs, read the source instead
01:39 < chansen> snapcount: where is that code located?
01:40 <@snapcount> the code I was asking about (the foreach) ?
01:40 <@snapcount> or the code thats broken
01:41 < chansen> grep found it :)
01:41 <@pbmdawg> snapcount: b/c you can have multiple uploads of the same parameter name
01:41 <@pbmdawg> the code's not broken
01:41 <@pbmdawg> it's used in FilePile and Posts' attachments
01:41 <@snapcount> not your code
01:41 <@pbmdawg> for multiple uploads
01:41 <@snapcount> the code in httpproxy
01:42 <@snapcount> I understand now... thanks matt
01:42 <@snapcount> ok, enough education
01:42 <@snapcount> I'll try to fix the bitch now and move on :-)
01:43 <@rizen> hey roy and matt!!!
01:43  * pbmdawg prepares to be fired.
01:43 <@rizen> at the annual staff meeting
01:43  * snapcount cowers
01:43 <@rizen> should we do anything special this year
01:43 <@rizen> like...do you guys want to do something in chicagoland?
01:43 <@pbmdawg> well, I think we should make it your bachelor's party.
01:43 <@snapcount> yeah... you could teach me about all the shit I'm asking about
01:43 <@rizen> or should we just hang out, do the usual business stuff
01:43 <@rizen> and then play some games or something
01:44 < chansen> WoW :)
01:44 <@snapcount> I want some time to learn some shit
01:44 <@snapcount> but having fun in chicago sounds cool too
01:44  * snapcount ponders
01:44  * pbmdawg insists on the bachelor party idea.
01:44 <@rizen> the bachelor party is a long way off yyet
01:45 <@rizen> that's this summer sometime
01:45 <@rizen> we can do something at the WUC for that if you like
01:45 <@rizen> the reason i'm asking this
01:45 <@rizen> is because this is the first year
01:45 <@rizen> i've had employee's coming from as far out as you guys are
01:46 <@snapcount> what cool shit is there in chicago?
01:46 <@rizen> there's all kinds of stuff to do
01:46 <@rizen> but the limiting part is you're only here for a day
01:46 <@rizen> so i'm thinking it might be better to just sort of "hang out"
01:46 < chansen> pbmdawg: It'a a lot mor perform-ant 
01:46 <@rizen> rather than to plan some sort of big activity
01:47  * pbmdawg listens intently to chansen
01:47 < chansen> pbmdawg: to try to link tempname instead of copying
01:47 <@pbmdawg> oh; we tried doing that
01:47 <@pbmdawg> chansen: but WebGUI runs on Windows
01:47 <@pbmdawg> sometimes.
01:48 <@pbmdawg> and, yes, I know Windows can handle symlinks
01:48 <@pbmdawg> but
01:48 < chansen> pbmdawg: link( $upload->tempname, $destination ) || File::Copy::copy( $upload->tempname, $destination );
01:48 < chansen> pbmdawg: works :)
01:48 <@pbmdawg> oh.
01:48 <@pbmdawg> okay.
01:49 < chansen> also catches if tempname is on a different fs than destination
01:49 <@rizen> christian, what's your email addy?
01:51 <@rizen> ok, let's try this again
01:51 < chansen> rizen: chansen@pause.org
01:51 <@rizen> chansen, what's youre 
01:51 <@rizen> cool
01:51 <@rizen> thanks
01:51 < chansen> :)
01:52  * chansen was outside smoking
01:52 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
01:54 < chansen> rizen: sorry, it should have been: chansen@cpan.org
01:55  * chansen not sure what i was thinking with
01:57 <@rizen> email is away
01:58 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@199.107.160.242] has joined #webgui
02:01 <@pbmdawg> i'm working on finishing User.t
02:02 < perlDreamer> I'm almost all through FormListEquiv.t
02:03 <@rizen> good luck with that
02:03 <@rizen> i've been working on it all day
02:03 <@rizen> i've given up
02:03 <@rizen> i'm now making Config.t
02:03 < chansen> rizen: thanks
02:03 <@pbmdawg> chansen: help
02:03 < chansen> Now i can bork the source ;)
02:03 < perlDreamer> Are we supposed to have WebGUI::SQL::getSlave ?
02:03 <@pbmdawg> chansen: question, if you have the time
02:03 <@pbmdawg> $session->dbslave
02:04 < perlDreamer> thx
02:04 < chansen> pbmdawg: sure, just ask
02:04 <@snapcount> heh, so I made the error message go away... but now there's a new problem
02:04 <@snapcount> the request is still failing
02:05 <@rizen> perldreamer: no
02:05 < perlDreamer> no?
02:05 < perlDreamer> no
02:05 < perlDreamer> ok
02:05 < chansen> heh
02:05 <@rizen> perldreamer: $session->dbSlave replaced it
02:05 < perlDreamer> dbSlave or dbslave?
02:05 <@pbmdawg> dbSlave
02:05 <@snapcount> is there an echo in here :-)
02:06 < perlDreamer> unset echo
02:06 <@snapcount> lol
02:06 <@pbmdawg> @echo off
02:06 <@pbmdawg> (dos)
02:07  * snapcount slaps pbmdawg with a debian cd
02:07 < perlDreamer> ***perlDreamer recommends a knoppix cd
02:08 < perlDreamer> oi
02:08 < perlDreamer> I'm such a geek
02:08 <@snapcount> those are fun at best buy :)
02:08 <@snapcount> take them in there, restart their machines
02:08 <@snapcount> pop out the cd and walk away
02:08 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
02:08 -!- mode/#webgui [+o crythias] by xdanger
02:08 <@snapcount> hillarious
02:08 <@pbmdawg> Auditor Security Collection
02:08 <@pbmdawg> for the laptops
02:08 <@snapcount> I liked the STD version
02:09 < perlDreamer> anyone know how to fake an Apache Request object?
02:10 <@rizen> why would you want to do that?
02:10 < chansen> perlDreamer: http://search.cpan.org/dist/Apache-Fake/
02:10 <@pbmdawg> http://www.remote-exploit.org/index.php/Auditor_tools
02:10 < perlDreamer> so that I can really test the forms, from creation to form value processing
02:10 < chansen> but it suxs
02:10 < chansen> much better to write proper Apache::Test tests
02:10 < perlDreamer> like sucks*5 or sucks^5 ?
02:11 < chansen> more!
02:11  * pbmdawg snorts
02:11 < perlDreamer> In order to write proper Apache::Test tests, I'd have to create a page with all the form elements on it.
02:11 < perlDreamer> that might suck worse than faking a Request object.
02:12 < chansen> no, what are you doing now?
02:12 < perlDreamer> there are no tests
02:12 < perlDreamer> only for form creation
02:13 < perlDreamer> and they're not even really checked extensively
02:14 <@pbmdawg> it would be good to have a test for forms processing since WebGUI::Session::Form::process doesn't work at all right now in 6.9.  always returns "".
02:14 <@pbmdawg> so I can't get past the daggone WebGUI initial configuration screen without manually changing stuff in the db.
02:14 < perlDreamer> hey, a form problem I didn't create!
02:15 <@pbmdawg> chansen: want to help me figure this one out?
02:15 < chansen> perlDreamer: I would have used Test::MockObject if we are talking about t/Form*.t
02:15 <@pbmdawg> take a look at https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/WebGUI%20SVN/view/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Session/Form.pm?rev=568
02:16 <@pbmdawg> perlDreamer:
02:16 < perlDreamer> ?
02:17 < chansen> pbmdawg: what about it?
02:17 <@pbmdawg> I'm confused as to what $value = $self->$type($self->session,$name); is supposed to do
02:17 <@pbmdawg> and why it doesn't work? :)
02:17 < perlDreamer> module/line?
02:17 <@pbmdawg> that Url
02:17 <@pbmdawg> in the process() method
02:17 <@pbmdawg> Session/Form.pm line 152
02:18 <@pbmdawg> oh
02:18 <@pbmdawg> nm
02:18 <@pbmdawg> found it
02:19 < chansen> pbmdawg: I have no idea besides, $type is second argument and is used as a method name to $self
02:19 <@pbmdawg> AUTOLOAD doesn't handle the $session parameter
02:19 < perlDreamer> it uses the AUTOLOAD method
02:19 < perlDreamer> did I tell y'all I found a way to bonk the AUTOLOAD method?
02:19 < perlDreamer> or at least short circuit it?
02:19 < perlDreamer> while not losing the automatic lookup that it provides?
02:20 < chansen> "bonk the AUTOLOAD method" means?
02:20 < perlDreamer> toss it
02:21 < perlDreamer> get rid of it
02:21 < perlDreamer> replace it with something that people don't write articles about why we shouldn't use it.
02:21 <@pbmdawg> OK 
02:21 <@pbmdawg> The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request. 
02:21 <@pbmdawg> Please contact the server administrator, you@example.com and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error. 
02:21 <@pbmdawg> More information about this error may be available in the server error log.
02:22 < chansen> There is nothing wrong with using AUTOLOAD, but it's used wrongly in that Form.pm
02:22 <@pbmdawg> perlDreamer: do tell
02:22 < chansen> it should have created subs for all lookups
02:22 < perlDreamer> you can start playing with the symbol table, and install aliases for the things that AUTOLOAD does
02:22 < perlDreamer> without incurring any overhead like AUTOLOAD does
02:23 < perlDreamer> or requiring us to insert DESTROY methods in everything that inherits from an AUTOLOAD'ing class.
02:23 < chansen> AUTOLOAD is not slow if you create a sub and attach it to symbol table
02:23 < perlDreamer> sure, and that's one alternative
02:24 < perlDreamer> but then you still have to manually put DESTROY methods in everything that inherits from your class.
02:24 <@pbmdawg> OVRHEAD
02:25 < perlDreamer> AUTOLOD
02:25 <@crythias> 2MCHCOD
02:25 <@snapcount> DESTROY
02:25 < perlDreamer> now that's a license plate
02:25 < perlDreamer> help
02:26 < chansen> perlDreamer: 
02:26 < chansen> *{$AUTOLOAD} = sub {
02:26 < chansen>     my ( $self, $fieldName ) = @_;
02:26 < chansen>     return $class->new( $self->session, { name => $fieldName } )->getValueFromPost;
02:26 < chansen> };
02:26 < chansen> goto &$AUTOLOAD;
02:27 < perlDreamer> sounds like you're channeling MJD
02:28 < chansen> no need to do any cleaning, it's already clean ;P
02:28 <@pbmdawg> goto?  sounds like logo.
02:28 < perlDreamer> it's a magic goto
02:28 <@snapcount> GW-BASIC
02:28 < chansen> be sure to not shift of args from @_;
02:29 < chansen> in sub AUTOLOAD { }
02:29  * chansen goes out for a smoke
02:30 < perlDreamer> could still use some help
02:30 <@pbmdawg> ?
02:30 < perlDreamer> Asset::Template::getName isn't working
02:30 < perlDreamer> Not an ARRAY reference at ../lib/WebGUI/SQL/ResultSet.pm line 120.
02:31 <@snapcount> rizen: I'm out of ideas on this proxy bug
02:31 <@rizen> then assign it to me
02:31 <@rizen> and i'll have a look later
02:31 <@snapcount> ok... but can you tell me wtf the deal is if you fix it?
02:31 <@rizen> sure
02:31 <@rizen> for tommorrow's release
02:32 <@rizen> my biggest concerns
02:32 <@rizen> are that Rich Edit works
02:32 <@rizen> and the CS
02:32 <@pbmdawg> oh i already fixed those.
02:32 <@rizen> could you test the hell out of both of those assets
02:32 <@rizen> before the release
02:32 <@rizen> roy, what time are we doing the release tomorrow?
02:33 <@pbmdawg> 4pmCST says I
02:33 <@rizen> yeah, but roy is the release manager
02:33 <@rizen> so you don't get to say
02:33 <@rizen> =)
02:33 <@pbmdawg> remember our meeting is at *
02:35 <@snapcount> Probably after dinner
02:35 <@rizen> ok
02:35 <@snapcount> I'm so freaking behind right now
02:35 <@rizen> i need to upgrade all our vh clients right after the release
02:35 < perlDreamer> should this: $session->db->read($sql,$session->dbSlave);
02:35 <@rizen> no
02:35 <@snapcount> it won't be too late... prolly like 6PM EST
02:35 < perlDreamer> really be $session->dbslave->read($sql);
02:35 <@rizen> $session->dbSlave->read($sql)
02:35 <@rizen> yes
02:36 < perlDreamer> fyi, there are probably more of those sprinkled through the code.
02:36 <@snapcount> are you going to test those matt?
02:36 < perlDreamer> because it looks like an autoconvert of old code
02:36 <@pbmdawg> no
02:37 <@snapcount> ok
02:40 <@snapcount> rjohnson@farva:/data$ rm -Rf WebGUI/
02:40 <@snapcount> God that felt good :)
02:42 < perlDreamer> just committed
02:42 < perlDreamer> FormListEquiv.t passes
02:43 < perlDreamer> pbmdawg, can you please remind me about your button bug?
02:43 <@pbmdawg> fixed
02:43 < perlDreamer> sry
02:43 < perlDreamer> I owe you one for that.
02:43 <@pbmdawg> no. 'twas my fault.
02:44 < perlDreamer> so where are we at?
02:45 < perlDreamer> snapcount is Dr. 6.8.5
02:45 < perlDreamer> pbmdawg is hacking away at User.t
02:45 < perlDreamer> time to write new tests?
02:45 <@pbmdawg> I'm trying to fix Form::process
02:46 <@pbmdawg> not working on User.t right now.
02:47  * chansen says good night
02:48 -!- chansen [n=chansen@h106n2c1o1099.bredband.skanova.com] has quit ["later dudes"]
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02:48 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
02:48 -!- mode/#webgui [+o crythias] by xdanger
02:55 < perlDreamer> later
02:56 <@pbmdawg> l?
02:56 < perlDreamer> dinner time, PST
02:57 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@199.107.160.242] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]
03:01 <@rizen> methinks my brain has checked out
03:01 <@rizen> better quit whilst i'm only a little behind
03:01 -!- rizen [n=rizen@c-67-184-239-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #webgui []
03:06 <@snapcount> I'll be back later tonight
03:53 -!- crythia1 [n=gyoung@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has joined #webgui
03:53 -!- mode/#webgui [+o crythia1] by xdanger
03:54 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@pcp06077902pcs.bntasp01.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
03:54 -!- crythia1 is now known as crythias
03:55 <@crythias> apologies for current noise.
05:42 -!- pbmdawg [i=user@CPE-65-31-211-163.kc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com"]
06:02 <@WRE> *** Join snapcount (~roy@241.246.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com) on EFnet
06:38 -!- perlDreamer [n=colink@199.107.160.242] has joined #webgui
06:42  * snapcount yawns
06:43 <@WRE> *** [signoff/#webgui] snapcount () on EFnet
06:43 < perlDreamer> you east coast guys amaze me at how late you stay up
06:43 <@snapcount> it's still sunday at least
06:43 < perlDreamer> for a little bit
06:43 <@snapcount> heh
06:43 < perlDreamer> how's 6.8.5?
06:43 <@snapcount> close
06:44 <@snapcount> should be released tommorow
06:44 < perlDreamer> cool
06:44 <@snapcount> depends on how well this mountain dew works =)
06:44 < perlDreamer> who are xdanger and LuckyLStrike?
06:44 < perlDreamer> I've never seen them active in here.
06:44 <@snapcount> xdanger is a bot
06:45 <@snapcount> the other nick I've seen
06:45 <@snapcount> a couple times
06:45 <@snapcount> but never heard from
06:45 < perlDreamer> ah
06:45 < perlDreamer> JT and Matthew sign off for tonight?
06:45 <@snapcount> !lastspoke LuckyLStrike
06:45 <@WRE> LuckyLStrike last uttered a word on #webgui 1 day, 22 hours, 50 minutes ago.
06:45 <@snapcount> a lurker
06:45 < perlDreamer> any way to find out what it was?
06:46 < perlDreamer> !lastWords LuckyLStrike
06:46 <@snapcount> the bot will log the chatter
06:46 <@snapcount> but I don't have it setup 
06:46 <@snapcount> I haven't had time
06:46 <@snapcount> I think xdanger is logging everything though
06:46 <@snapcount> and publishing it to a website
06:46 < perlDreamer> who wrote xdanger?
06:46 < perlDreamer> Crythias?
06:46 <@snapcount> I don't remember whos it is
06:47 <@snapcount> I think it's just an eggdrop bot like wre
06:47 < perlDreamer> ah
06:47 <@snapcount> I know Matt was going to do some 6.8.5 bugs tonight, but I don't know if he'll be back on chat
06:47 <@snapcount> rizen... who knows with him
06:47 <@snapcount> he's very random
06:48 <@snapcount> his AIM says he's idle so he's prolly gone for the night
06:48 < perlDreamer> he told me had had to do some bathroom remodeling this weekend, so hopefully he's not neck deep in hot water.
06:49 <@snapcount> that doesn't sound like any fun
06:49 <@snapcount> he's probably in a raft in his living room trying to get the laptop fired up
06:49 <@snapcount> haha
06:49 < perlDreamer> good thing he's got wireless and a battery!
06:50 <@snapcount> for sure
06:50 < perlDreamer> so, you're in Florida, right?
06:50 <@snapcount> yep
06:50 <@snapcount> Daytona Beach
06:50 < perlDreamer> what did you do before you started working at Plain Black?
06:51 <@snapcount> I ran my own company doing WG stuff for a while.  Before that I ran the web services for a corp close to here
06:51 < perlDreamer> Cool
06:52 <@snapcount> actually, the company was an EMS provider
06:52 < perlDreamer> EMS?
06:52 <@snapcount> close to your business =)
06:52 <@snapcount> (you make chips right)
06:52 < perlDreamer> Yeah
06:52 <@snapcount> we built sonobuoys for the navy and medical stuff
06:53 < perlDreamer> Emergency Marine Systems
06:53 < perlDreamer> EMS
06:53 <@snapcount> Electronics Manufacturing Service
06:53 <@snapcount> I guess its industry marketing speak
06:53 <@snapcount> that was the lingo
06:54 < perlDreamer> Yeah, I'm way too upstream to know that.
06:54 <@snapcount> that company has serious IT issues so I bailed
06:54 < perlDreamer> In my group, we design chips for battery management for portable electronics.
06:54 < perlDreamer> So if your battery dies when it says it's really full, that would be us.
06:54 < perlDreamer> but our chips wouldn't do that
06:54 <@snapcount> that's cool... I was an Electronics Tech before I was a programmer
06:55 <@snapcount> but you actually design ICs right?
06:55 < perlDreamer> Yeah
06:55 < perlDreamer> Analog/mixed-signal
06:55 <@snapcount> are you more of a mechanical eng or an electrical eng?
06:55 < perlDreamer> electrical engineer
06:56 < perlDreamer> transistors, resistors, caps, diodes
06:56 <@snapcount> thats awesome
06:56 < perlDreamer> think about this
06:56 < perlDreamer> with code, we can make "product" and test it within minutes
06:56 < perlDreamer> in chip design, that cycle is 3-6 months long
06:57 <@snapcount> well, you can simulate it right?
06:57 < perlDreamer> and too many cycles kills a chip, so the front end is heavily loaded with simulations, systems modeling, etc.
06:57 < perlDreamer> simulate some parts, yes.
06:57  * crythias has a BS in EE
06:58 < perlDreamer> but large scale systems modeling for analog/mixed-signal is more of an art than science.
06:58 <@snapcount> yeah... our engineers used DSPs if they couldn't find a standard IC to do the job
06:58 <@snapcount> to get things done faster
06:58 <@snapcount> but those cost more I guess
06:58 <@snapcount> in mass production
06:58 <@crythias> hence MGC SMOK
06:58 < perlDreamer> a lot more.  But it drove the ASIC industry in the 90's
06:58 <@snapcount> our quantities of production were small in comparison to say iPods
06:59 < perlDreamer> if you get in a product like that, you've made it.
07:03 < perlDreamer> we target cell phones, portable games, handhelds, etc.
07:03 <@snapcount> heh... one of our sonobuoys used an ASIC
07:03 <@snapcount> I think my favorite job was working in Test Engineering
07:03 <@snapcount> I got to write code and work with the electronics
07:03 < perlDreamer> automated or bench testing?
07:03 <@snapcount> automated
07:03 <@snapcount> LabWindows CVI
07:03 <@snapcount> (basically C)
07:03 < perlDreamer> PC based, isn't it?
07:03 <@snapcount> yeah
07:03 <@snapcount> It's a product from National Instruments
07:03 <@snapcount> and it wasn't fully automated
07:03 < perlDreamer> Yeah, we use one of their GPIB cards.
07:03 <@snapcount> there was production operators that interacted with the test software
07:03 <@snapcount> but if we did well, they didn't have to do much
07:04 <@snapcount> Have you ever played with a HeMS?
07:04 < perlDreamer> no
07:04 < perlDreamer> what is it?
07:04 <@snapcount> oh
07:04 <@snapcount> Helium Mass Spectrometer
07:05 <@snapcount> for leak testing
07:05 <@snapcount> things are amazing
07:05 < perlDreamer> I've used microprobing stations
07:05 < perlDreamer> FIBs
07:05 < perlDreamer> electron microscopes
07:05 < perlDreamer> Scanning Emissions Microscopes
07:05 <@snapcount> we could identify leaks that air molecules couldn't pass through
07:05 <@snapcount> whoa... cool toys
07:05 < perlDreamer> ah, that's why helium
07:05 <@snapcount> well, the buoys go deep in the water
07:06 <@snapcount> so the water was literally beating its way in
07:06 <@snapcount> tiny hole == big problem
07:06 <@snapcount> and we would build 200 units / day
07:06 <@snapcount> so automating a test to find leaks that small quickly
07:07 <@snapcount> .... it was interesting
07:07 < perlDreamer> why did you leave?
07:07 <@snapcount> and a lay person had to be able to run the test
07:07 <@snapcount> well, I moved to IT
07:07 <@snapcount> from TE for the money and to advance my career
07:08 <@snapcount> and the politics/mis-management were more then I could handle
07:08 <@snapcount> it got really bad
07:08 <@snapcount> so I started my own company =)
07:08 < perlDreamer> TE can be a bad spot, because you're stuck between wanting to do a good job and wanting to do a quick job.
07:08 <@snapcount> *exactly*
07:09 <@snapcount> it was fun to see your software do something physically in the real world
07:09 <@snapcount> that was the best part
07:09 <@snapcount> cyberspace it's not as impressive
07:09 < perlDreamer> I get a kick out of seeing products with my parts in them.
07:09 <@snapcount> that would be so bad ass
07:10 <@snapcount> any products I might recognize?
07:10 < perlDreamer> PSP
07:10 < perlDreamer> lots of servers use our temp sensors
07:10 < perlDreamer> Lots of cell phones, Motorola, LG
07:11 <@snapcount> I have a Motorala i830 maybe your stuff is in there
07:11 <@snapcount> if it is *props* b/c my battery lasts forever
07:11 < perlDreamer> oh, we just keep track of it.  The cell phone chipset is responsible for power drain.
07:11 < perlDreamer> but thanks!
07:12 <@snapcount> so if it dies and the screen says its full
07:12 <@snapcount> thats your snafu
07:12 < perlDreamer> that's me.
07:12 <@snapcount> that must be quite a challenge
07:13 < perlDreamer> actually, my last chip was for battery authentication, via SHA-1
07:13 <@snapcount> to make sure they don't use COTS replacements
07:13 <@snapcount> force factory stuff
07:13 < perlDreamer> mainly indemnification
07:14 < perlDreamer> your cell phone catches on fire because you bought a cheap battery, but you sue the cell phone manufacturer.
07:14 < perlDreamer> he has no way to say what happened (the evidence is a small, black pile of plastic and metal)
07:14 <@snapcount> (half of which is melted to some guys face)
07:14 < perlDreamer> or pants
07:15 < perlDreamer> really, most cheap COTS stuff is what it's worth
07:15 < perlDreamer> buy a good battery, it's not worth the risk to save a little money.
07:15 < perlDreamer> some of the cheap batteries don't even have Li-Ion protectors inside them.
07:16 <@snapcount> so does the phone tell the network SIM XXX used a ghetto battery on stardate xyz
07:16 < perlDreamer> it's too soon for it to be in any cell phones yet.
07:16 <@snapcount> ahh... this is cutting edge stuff
07:16 < perlDreamer> but since the idea is that you don't use the battery at all if it doesn't authenticate, I doubt it would do that
07:16 <@snapcount> oh ok
07:17 <@snapcount> the phone would be like "sorry, I refuse to work"
07:17 < perlDreamer> yeah
07:17 <@snapcount> pretty good idea
07:17 < perlDreamer> at least until the bridge battery drains
07:17 <@snapcount> yeah... those last for months don't they
07:18 < perlDreamer> I don't think so, typically they're a rechargable coin battery.
07:18 < perlDreamer> months would be with no use.
07:18 < perlDreamer> or recharge
07:18 <@snapcount> yeah... well if the phone won't turn on without a genuine battery
07:18 <@snapcount> they would have to wait months
07:19 <@snapcount> to use a ghetto one
07:19 <@snapcount> I doubt anyone would do that
07:19 <@snapcount> they would just buy the right battery
07:19 < perlDreamer> I'm hoping that the cell phone manufacturers don't price gouge with it.
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07:20 < perlDreamer> it would be good for short term profit, but bad for long term concerns
07:20 <@snapcount> well, with the DMCA they might get away with it
07:20 <@snapcount> if someone hacked the auth and put it in the el-cheapo batteries
07:20 <@snapcount> they would be sued or sent to prison I'm sure
07:20 < perlDreamer> oh, yeah.
07:20 <@snapcount> reverse engineering is pretty much a crime now
07:20 < perlDreamer> If they were in the states.
07:21 < perlDreamer> only if you encrypt your data
07:21 < perlDreamer> Groklaw has a lot of good info about that.
07:21 <@snapcount> is the battery just a challenge/response thing
07:21 <@snapcount> no message
07:21 < perlDreamer> yeah
07:21 <@snapcount> but they would equate it to logging into my linux server
07:22 <@snapcount> that's cool stuff
07:22 <@snapcount> I thought you were joking
07:22 <@snapcount> at first
07:22 < perlDreamer> about what?
07:22 <@snapcount> I was like "SHA1 and battery in one sentence"
07:22 <@snapcount> what the hell?!
07:23 < perlDreamer> What can I say, I'm a geek.
07:23 <@snapcount> I think that's wicked cool man
07:23 < perlDreamer> It can be.
07:23 < perlDreamer> Until you sit through a 5 hour design review
07:24 <@snapcount> yeah... all the other stuff sux
07:24 < perlDreamer> design is cool
07:24 <@snapcount> validation, blah blah, six sigma
07:24 < perlDreamer> yeah
07:24 <@snapcount> IQ/OQ/PQ
07:24 <@snapcount> QA bullshit
07:24 <@snapcount> I mean it has a purpose
07:24 <@snapcount> but it was so annoying
07:25 < perlDreamer> as long as it gets through ESD and temperature accelerated testing, we don't have to do that much
07:25 <@snapcount> do you guys have huge vandegraff generators wired to a room that zaps shit
07:25 < perlDreamer> yeah
07:25 < perlDreamer> 6 kV
07:26 < perlDreamer> 10 kV
07:26 < perlDreamer> contact zappers, air zappers
07:26 < perlDreamer> stuff that acts like human discharge
07:26 < perlDreamer> stuff that acts like a chip sliding down a metal tube to be soldered.
07:27 <@snapcount> dude... I would love to tour your office
07:27 < perlDreamer> Most of the stuff is off site
07:27 < perlDreamer> We have lots of design centers.
07:27 <@snapcount> oh
07:27 < perlDreamer> and some of it is from prior companies
07:27 < perlDreamer> but we do have a two-color laser
07:28 <@snapcount> the "laser" </dr evil>
07:28 < perlDreamer> no sharks, though.
07:28 <@snapcount> damn
07:28 < perlDreamer> SPCA and all
07:28 <@snapcount> so is it a Class X or something
07:28 <@snapcount> like cut your arm off laser
07:29 < perlDreamer> No.
07:29 <@snapcount> damn
07:29 < perlDreamer> it's for cutting holes in chips
07:29 < perlDreamer> microprobing
07:29 < perlDreamer> color 1 is for glass cutting
07:29 < perlDreamer> color 2 is for metal/polysilicon
07:30 <@snapcount> so the wavelength determines what it will cut
07:30 <@snapcount> kinda like how a microwave works?
07:30 < perlDreamer> kind of.
07:30 <@snapcount> food gets hot, but the container is ok
07:30 < perlDreamer> so long as it doesn't have any water inside
07:30 < perlDreamer> or be made out of metal.
07:31 < perlDreamer> the other nice thing about software is that it's very easy to get to the guts
07:31 < perlDreamer> in a chip, if it doesn't come to a pad and you have to measure or force it...
07:31 < perlDreamer> then you go to the lab, and blast a hole down to it
07:32 < perlDreamer> take 12 micron probe and try to make it touch a 0.5 micron wire without shorting anything
07:32 <@snapcount> I'd love to blast a hole in WG right now
07:32 < perlDreamer> 6.8.5?
07:32 <@snapcount> so if your hands shake you get fired
07:32 < perlDreamer> no, you get a new chip and try again.
07:32 < perlDreamer> plus the chips are mounted on an air shock system so they don't vibrate much
07:34 <@snapcount> interesting
07:34 < perlDreamer> so what's bothering you with WG?
07:34 <@snapcount> well, this proxy bug
07:34 < perlDreamer> still working on it?
07:34 < perlDreamer> wow
07:34 <@snapcount> I already handed it off to JT, but it's still irking me
07:35 < perlDreamer> I do the same thing
07:35 <@snapcount> I don't understand WG on that level yet
07:35 < perlDreamer> code level?
07:35 <@snapcount> so it frustrates me to not have the skillset to troubleshoot
07:35 <@snapcount> no, the apache2 request stuff
07:35 < perlDreamer> oh, yeah
07:35 <@snapcount> modperl hooks
07:35 <@snapcount> all that
07:35 < perlDreamer> considering that's only weeks old, don't feel too bad.
07:36 < perlDreamer> nobody here understands all of it very well
07:36 <@snapcount> I'm at the application level pretty solid
07:36 <@snapcount> getting pretty good with the core
07:36 <@snapcount> (a long way to go)
07:36 <@snapcount> but the actual MP/Apache interactions are completely foreign
07:36 < perlDreamer> you must be good, otherwise JT wouldn't have hired you.
07:36 <@snapcount> he hired me for my server skillz
07:37 <@snapcount> (I think)
07:37 < perlDreamer> sys admin like stuff?
07:37 <@snapcount> but my main resp. is programming so... go figure
07:37 <@snapcount> yeah
07:38 <@snapcount> I'm good at figuring stuff out... I'm analytical
07:38 <@snapcount> I don't know a lot about any one thing
07:38 < perlDreamer> jack of all trades
07:38 < perlDreamer> good skills
07:38 < perlDreamer> you can always go deep in anything you need to
07:38 <@snapcount> I think it's a mild form of ADD
07:38 <@snapcount> =)
07:38 < perlDreamer> that and not needing much sleep :)
07:39 <@snapcount> yeah... he runs a sweat shop
07:39 <@snapcount> 22 hour days haha
07:39 < perlDreamer> ha
07:39 <@snapcount> actually, he doesn't do it
07:39 <@snapcount> I do it to myself
07:39 <@snapcount> I just like to work
07:39 < perlDreamer> just don't burn out
07:40 <@snapcount> yeah... I'm still the new kid on the block
07:40 <@snapcount> so I have to put my time in
07:40 <@snapcount> and get up to speed
07:40 <@snapcount> but hopefully I'll be able to work faster/smarter and have time for other stuff soon
07:41 <@snapcount> how is 6.9 going?
07:41 < perlDreamer> I think well.
07:41 < perlDreamer> the more tests we have, the longer it will take
07:41 < perlDreamer> but we'll be better off in the long run for them.
07:41 <@snapcount> that's good
07:41 <@snapcount> I'm a huge proponent of the test framework
07:42 <@snapcount> QA is much needed in WG
07:42 < perlDreamer> yeah
07:42 <@snapcount> I know 6.x is about change so we can't do much
07:42 < perlDreamer> I have a deal with JT that when all tests pass that he'll build a daily run of all tests and email out the results.
07:42 < perlDreamer> of course, the test that fails the worst is the POD checker.
07:43 < perlDreamer> so I've been writing POD docs for the core code.
07:43 < perlDreamer> In 6.8, I had about 45 files left to do.
07:43 <@snapcount> I really enjoyed writing tests
07:43 < perlDreamer> after 6.9, I have no idea.
07:43 < perlDreamer> we should do more testing.
07:43 <@snapcount> especially when it found problems
07:43 < perlDreamer> we, like you and I
07:43 <@snapcount> I'm all for it
07:44 <@snapcount> I just have to get caught up with all the stuff JT told me to do
07:44 <@snapcount> so I can do the stuff I want to do
07:44 < perlDreamer> 6.8.5
07:44 <@snapcount> that and client login requests and client apps
07:45 <@snapcount> supporting people on linux that know zero about linux is hard
07:45 < perlDreamer> ouch
07:45 <@snapcount> it's so easy to break something if you don't know what you're doing
07:45 <@snapcount> and they don't know
07:45 < perlDreamer> tell me about it
07:46 < perlDreamer> I'm still trying to live down the 6.8 form code fiasco.
07:46 <@snapcount> why?
07:46 <@snapcount> what happened?
07:46 < perlDreamer> I rewrote large chunks of the Form code to use inheritance
07:46 < perlDreamer> everything I tested worked.
07:46 < perlDreamer> I didn't test the new form post processing code.
07:47 < perlDreamer> it didn't work
07:47 < perlDreamer> it took 4 revs to get it all fixed (6.8.0-6.8.4)
07:47 <@snapcount> honestly, I don't think anyone expects anything to work with 6.x
07:47 <@snapcount> as far as the users go
07:47 <@snapcount> they were spoiled with 5.x being rock solid
07:47 <@snapcount> and then were like wtf?
07:48 <@snapcount> now WG has a rep for being buggy
07:48 < perlDreamer> 7.x will be better.
07:48 <@snapcount> I know... I just hope everyone else does
07:48 < perlDreamer> we'll have to make sure it does
07:48 <@snapcount> this had to be done
07:48 <@snapcount> 6.x
07:48 < perlDreamer> oh yeah.
07:48 <@snapcount> and all things considered
07:48 < perlDreamer> it just took too long
07:48 <@snapcount> I think we've done well
07:48 < perlDreamer> yes
07:49 <@snapcount> WG will have the foundation to the best around
07:49 <@snapcount> so where do you want to see the testing framework end up
07:49 <@snapcount> what is the ultimate goal as you see it
07:50 <@snapcount> what's the vision
07:50 < perlDreamer> I'm probably the testing Nazi.
07:50 < perlDreamer> JT said that no bugs should be fixed without a test to verify it.
07:50 < perlDreamer> so long term, we need a front-end testing framework.
07:50 < perlDreamer> all features should be tested as well
07:51 < perlDreamer> especially new ones.
07:51 < perlDreamer> but that's really big.
07:51 < perlDreamer> it means a scriptable browser
07:51 <@snapcount> that's what mechanize is right?
07:51 < perlDreamer> something that does rendering and javascript, too
07:51 <@snapcount> oh
07:51 < perlDreamer> WWW::Mech is a great start, but doesn't do javascript.
07:52 <@snapcount> true
07:52 < perlDreamer> (last I checked)
07:52 <@snapcount> I'd like to see a QA process evolve that ties directly to release management
07:52 <@snapcount> based on the testing framework
07:53 <@snapcount> it's so much work though
07:53 < perlDreamer> here's a link to that module I mentioned:  http://search.cpan.org/~slanning/Mozilla-Mechanize-0.05/
07:53 < perlDreamer> yeah, but all it takes is small steps
07:53 < perlDreamer> first, the framework
07:53 < perlDreamer> then the release tie in
07:54 <@snapcount> I really like the idea of running the test suite on the nightly builds
07:54 <@snapcount> and emailing the results
07:54 < perlDreamer> they could out on IRC
07:54 < perlDreamer> :)
07:55 <@snapcount> heh
07:55 < perlDreamer> !regress
07:55 < perlDreamer> or, in perl lingo
07:55 < perlDreamer> !smoke
07:55 <@snapcount> so how close do you think we are to having tests for the API?
07:56 < perlDreamer> a long way to go.
07:56 <@snapcount> done
07:56 < perlDreamer> just look at the number of tests vs the number of files.
07:56 <@snapcount> you know... it's funny
07:56 < perlDreamer> we should have a test for each form element, asset, operation, auth method, etc.
07:56 <@snapcount> really, to test the entire api
07:57 <@snapcount> what we're doing is writing code that utilizes every feature Wg has
07:57 <@snapcount> it's like the ultimate app
07:57 < perlDreamer> yeah
07:57 <@snapcount> that blows my mind to think of it that way
07:58 < perlDreamer> the test base could be 2-3x bigger than the code base.
07:58 <@snapcount> yeah... that's what I was getting at
07:58 <@snapcount> it's kinda cool actually
07:59 <@snapcount> it will take a long time to run all the tests
07:59 < perlDreamer> oh yes.
07:59 <@snapcount> that's one thing we should probably be thinking about now
07:59 < perlDreamer> the i18n test takes several minutes, but that's due to the fact it scans the entire WebGUI code base.
08:00 < perlDreamer> have you seen it?
08:00 <@snapcount> I wonder if we could write a wrapper that splits the work up
08:00 < perlDreamer> and parses it out?
08:00 < perlDreamer> maybe, but it's processor intensive.
08:00 <@snapcount> well, say you have 10 servers of the same general architecture
08:00 <@snapcount> same OS version and CPU brand
08:01 <@snapcount> first 40 tests on server 1
08:01 <@snapcount> etc
08:01 <@snapcount> etc
08:01 < perlDreamer> yeah
08:01 <@snapcount> and one that gets the results and sends the work
08:01 < perlDreamer> I have some code to do that
08:01 <@snapcount> ok you're done? do these tests
08:01 <@snapcount> kinda thing
08:01 < perlDreamer> almost sounds like the new Workflow engine
08:02 <@snapcount> yeah it does kinda
08:02 <@snapcount> honestly, we'll have to do something
08:02 <@snapcount> b/c eventually it won't be able to run in a day
08:03 <@snapcount> I dunno... maybe I'm just paranoid
08:03 < perlDreamer> no, you're probably right.
08:03 <@snapcount> but I always think about stuff like that
08:04 < perlDreamer> but 24*60 is a lot of minute scale tests
08:04 < perlDreamer> the testing machines don't have to be screamin' machines.
08:04 <@snapcount> yeah... but at that number
08:04 <@snapcount> exactly
08:04 < perlDreamer> we could build a cluster of commodity hardware
08:04 <@snapcount> and there would have to be a "testing machine"
08:04 <@snapcount> that did nothing but
08:04 <@snapcount> or a "testing farm"
08:05 <@snapcount> which is prolly cheaper
08:05 <@snapcount> b/c I could for example
08:05 < perlDreamer> yeah
08:05 <@snapcount> donate 4 hours on my dev server at home
08:05 <@snapcount> to test processing
08:05 <@snapcount> etc
08:05 < perlDreamer> oh, like Seti @ Home
08:05 < perlDreamer> envisioning graphic of Gooey with tentacles on lots of machines
08:06 <@snapcount> maybe that's a bit ambitious
08:06 <@snapcount> but yeah... I can see how that could work
08:06 < perlDreamer> the cluster is more controllable
08:06 < perlDreamer> similar configs and setups
08:06 <@snapcount> think ssh and key based auth
08:06 <@snapcount> yeah
08:06 <@snapcount> the cluster would be ideal
08:06 <@snapcount> but gooey @ home is cooler
08:06 <@snapcount> =)
08:06 < perlDreamer> yeah
08:07 <@snapcount> the other thing to consider
08:07 <@snapcount> is that the test suite should be run for each platform we support
08:07 <@snapcount> OSX, etc
08:07 <@snapcount> each Linux Distro
08:07 <@snapcount> I'd like to see PB certify binary distributions of WG
08:08 < perlDreamer> that's ambitious
08:08 <@snapcount> binary meaning "WG will work on RHEL vX.X"
08:08 <@snapcount> that's what big companies want
08:09 <@snapcount> tell me this will work with our server
08:09 <@snapcount> now prove it to me
08:09 <@snapcount> saying "we've tested and it passed on" such and such OS would be good
08:09 < perlDreamer> yeah
08:09 <@snapcount> but... I guess we should start with the framework =)
08:10 < perlDreamer> from there it's easy
08:11 <@snapcount> I'm gonna go finish this stuff so I can go to bed... ttyl
08:11 < perlDreamer> l84
08:11 < perlDreamer> l8r
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16:35 <@pbmdawg> hi Klaus
16:35 < Klaus_> Hi!
16:37 < Klaus_> Matt, do you know why we don't have in the svn the common structre with branch and tags for wre and webgui?
16:37 <@pbmdawg> what is the common structure
16:38 < Klaus_> I mean the directory structure like in http://svn.collab.net/repos/svn/
16:39 <@pbmdawg> maybe you could explain the differences for m?
16:39 <@pbmdawg> me?
16:39 < Klaus_> especially the tags-folder to check out or diff to released vesions
16:40 <@pbmdawg> so, under trunk are the various "projects"?
16:40 < Klaus_> for example: the actual work on webgui 6.9 in the trunk, bugfixes for 6.8 in branch/6.8 
16:40 < Klaus_> you usally have in a repository differnet projects linke webgui, wre, tools
16:40 <@pbmdawg> or branch/wre/6.8
16:40 <@pbmdawg> sry
16:40 <@pbmdawg> branch/wre/0.6
16:41 <@pbmdawg> branch/WebGUI/6.9
16:41 <@pbmdawg> trunk/WebGUI/6.9
16:41 <@pbmdawg> branch/WebGUI/6.8
16:41 < Klaus_> then you can have the branch/tags/trunk structure in the svn-root or under each projekt
16:41 <@pbmdawg> the reason it's set up as it currently is: jt was just learning svn when he set it up this way
16:42 < Klaus_> in trunk you use no version numbers as additional subdirectories, it is always the top of the development, aka HEAD
16:42 <@pbmdawg> so he just did it "whatever works"
16:42 <@pbmdawg> why not; what if you're working on two unreleased versions at the same time
16:42 < Klaus_> I know, I see everyone is learning svn.
16:43 <@pbmdawg> as in... apache 2.2 and 2.4
16:43 < Klaus_> perhaps it will be a good idea to change to another structure with webgui 7.0
16:44 < Klaus_> for the apache example: the 2.4 development is done in trunk
16:44 <@pbmdawg> although; I shouldn't speak for JT; i'm sure he could come up with some justification for why/how he did what he did.
16:44 <@pbmdawg> so even though 2.2 isn't "stable"/"released", it has a branch?
16:44 <@pbmdawg> since it's feature-frozen?
16:45 < Klaus_> when 2.2 was released, you make a versin in the tag directory and a copy in branch 2.4
16:45 < Klaus_> sorry branch 2.2
16:45 <@pbmdawg> ok. i think I see.
16:45 < Klaus_> development of 2.2.1 is done in branch 2.2, code nexessary for 2.4 is merged to trunk.
16:46 <@pbmdawg> ok.  so branches are for feature-frozen releases and bugfix releases, whereas HEAD is for adding new features.
16:47 <@pbmdawg> is that right?
16:47 < Klaus_> perhaps i write these days a mail to the dev-list, i thought of this topic when JT mentined the svn vcersion will be broken for some time until the session-thing is complete
16:47 <@pbmdawg> am I right on the branch/head distinction?
16:47 < Klaus_> yes, it is right. HEAD lives in trunk
16:48 <@pbmdawg> I understand that head=trunk; I'm asking about the clear-cut distinction between trunk/branches.  from what I can tell from what you're saying, branches are feature-frozen forks from trunk.
16:49 <@pbmdawg> I guess I'm trying to be more specific than "new development"
16:50 < Klaus_> yes. and having tags for the released code base in svn will be useful also.
16:50 <@pbmdawg> which do you prefer?  putting trunk/branches under each project, or putting each project under trunk and branches.
16:51 < Klaus_> I prefer the first one, webgui/branch webgui/tags webgui/trunk and wre/branch ... if the projects were all in the same repository
16:52 <@pbmdawg> ok.  I guess that would make it easier to create branches.
16:52 <@pbmdawg> ok, so explain tags to me now
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16:54 < Klaus_> if all bugfixes for webgui 6.8.5 were checked in in the branch/6.8 then make a copy in tags/6.8.5
16:55 < Klaus_> you can now check out 6.8.5 direct from svn or make a diff between 6.8.5 and 6.8.0 with svn
16:55 <@pbmdawg> so tags are just for bugfix releases of branches?
16:56 < lenthamen> howdy
16:56 <@pbmdawg> hi len
16:56 < Klaus_> you use it for all releases - or snapshots you will need later again and identify ba a tagname
16:56 < Klaus_> hi len
16:56 <@pbmdawg> Klaus is explaining svn trunk/branches/tags conventions to me.
16:56 < lenthamen> ah
16:57 < lenthamen> Good to know we have a svn expert in our middle :)
16:57 < Klaus_> not an expert, but an user ;-)
16:59 < lenthamen> In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king :)
17:00 <@pbmdawg> Klaus - do you mind if I email these suggestions to the dev list?
17:00 -!- crythias [n=gyoung@64.200.2.35] has joined #webgui
17:00 <@pbmdawg> (for JT to comment on them)
17:01 < Klaus_> you can also do it, cause i have to leve my computers now.
17:01 < Klaus_> I have to go and to change the spark plugs at my motorcycle in the last few daylight minutes. 
17:01 <@pbmdawg> ok; bye!
17:01 < lenthamen> Klaus: what motorbike do yo have ?
17:01 < lenthamen> I have a Yamaha Fazer.
17:02 < Klaus_> G